time needed for the cane to cool. We unbound it and were off to the races.If our constant wandering talk of flyfishing hadn't interfered with ourrodmaking endeavor, we would have had that butt section glued up. Ofcourse, the only breaks were for talk and for sharpening those new planeirons he brought... no breakfast, no lunch, and it was well after dark whenwe turned off the shop lights and went to the Fish Camp to eat our firstmeal of the day... Coffee kept me going, Soft drinks kept him going andthat's just what we did... kept going on that ugly chunk of imported grassuntil we nearly had a beautiful rod section made.After we got back from the Fish Camp, our bellies full, we sat at theWrapping table (aka the kitchen table) and talked fly rods, tapers,mechanics of tapers... Oh, you should have heard this! Two engineerssitting analyizing bending moments on tapered beams, loading and unloadingproperties, why rods cast the way they do. Had you closed your eyes, youprobably would have envisioned two nerds in black horn rimmed glasses withpocket protector full of pens and pencils with a slide rule sticking out ofthe middle of them... Open your eyes, and you see a couple of scruffylooking flyfishers who didn't care that they had bamboo shavings stuck tothe seat of their pants at the restaurant. Even dinner was rod talk.Between bites of catfish and shrimp, we'd speak of cane, of classic makers,of contemporary makers, and of the pure pleasure of seeing a trout rise in astill pool... The waitresses were gathered at the register when we left andlistening intently as we discussed the mechanics of casting from anengineering standpoint on the way out the front door of the restaurant. Himin a flannel shirt and jeans, me wearing my Southern Rodmakers GatheringHat, my hair in a pony tail, Billie of course, dressed nicely so it wouldlook like she had picked up two homeless people and treating them to ameal... I think they were amazed that these two guys with the funny lookingwood shavings stuck to their clothes could know words with more than twosyllables...Troy expressed his gratitude as he left late last night, but I didn'texpress mine. I went out with Billie for a couple of drinks after he left,and all I could think about was "I gotta get more rods made... wonder whatthis would look like... wonder how I could make a reel seat out of that..."Everything in our local watering hole to me looked like something that couldeither be used in the shop or made into something for a fly rod. This visitfanned an ember that has always burned inside, into the fire to get in thatshop and make rods for fun, the way it used to be... For that... THANKS,TROY! Thanks for reigniting that fire, and for reminding me why I lovebeing a rodmaker... and you're welcome in this old man's shop, anytime... Off to ferrule a rod... yep... working on Sunday! Why... because a youngman aspiring to be what I am, reminded me that I do this because I loveit... *S*Splits and splinters,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 18 10:32:56 2001 f2IGWte22227 f2IGWvFj000528;Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:32:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Thanks for that Bob ! Troy lives fairly close, and I hope to spend some timewill him, on the water, before too long !GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Mar 18 11:24:54 2001 f2IHOme22853 0000 0000 Subject: Re: $330 bastard? --------------9A70EAD43F991FBA0AD87B3F Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paul Goodwin wrote: Let's not go there... again ----- Original Message -----From: Adam Vigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 10:48 AMSubject: $330 bastard?I have been reading the archives and came across the thetopic of the Bastard bamboo rod. I went to his sight andread his archives on his ordeal in making bamboo rods. Wellsuffice it to say, he spent over $150,000, had to rebuildhis mills several times, brought in professionals to helpand consult him and wanted $4,400 for his first rod. He nowsells his rods for $600-$830 and with and extra tip and norod case. Isn't it Ironic, the God of the High grass mustfish with bamboo and it isn't a Bastard either. I wonderif he still says he can build a rod just as good as a T&T --------------9A70EAD43F991FBA0AD87B3F Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Paul Goodwin wrote: Let'snot go there... again ----- Original Message ----- From:AdamVigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 10:48AM Subject: $330 bastard? and came across the the topic of the Bastard bamboo rod. I went to hissight and read his archives on his ordeal in making bamboo rods. Well sufficeit to say, he spent over $150,000, had to rebuild his mills several times,brought in professionals to help and consult him and wanted $4,400 forhis first rod. He now sells his rods for $600-$830 and with and extra tipand no rod case. Isn't it Ironic, the God of the High grass must fish with says he can build a rod just as good as a T&T for $150 or if rodmakerscharge to much? --------------9A70EAD43F991FBA0AD87B3F-- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Mar 18 11:56:19 2001 f2IHuIe23518 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:55:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Great post Bob. I just got back from the Zoo with my wife and 2 yr. old daughter ready for a nap. I guess I will have to go to the shop now instead.Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 12:23:41 2001 f2IINde24012 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:23:00 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Bob,a couple years back when I first really started building rods,You wereone ofthe first builders I actually talked to(over the internet) and I thought backthen,"what a great guy, hope some day I get to meet up with him". As time went thought the same way.I had just finished gluing and binding a Dickerson 6611 up and decided tocheckmy e mail when I read your message and I have to say... I still look forward tomeeting you someday, you are an asset to the craft bud!Wish that all of us here on the list could get together for a huge rodseminar/fishing trip/chili cook off/beer fest someday, sort of a "World WideBambooWeekend" type thing! ;^)Shawn from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Mar 18 12:39:55 2001 f2IIdte24457 "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Planing Form & Binder Source Try Grindstone Anglers in Waterdown, Ontario. The store has canadian madeforms at very competitive prices. Its telephone is 905-689-0880 ---------- Subject: Re: Planing Form & Binder Source Try Russ Gooding at Goldenwitch or Colorado Bootstrap. Email me tomorrowtoremind me and I'll look up their web addresses for you. As far as thebinder goes, they are relatively easy to make. There is a gooddescription/plan in The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell. A great book for thebeginner. Also check out Wayne Cattanach's book. Both wonderfull books forbeginners and skilled makers. Other books are available which I have heardwere very good. Also in interest of other form builders their are othersavailable, hopefully some can come to mind of other list members and theywill post them for you. Keep in mind that you can always make your ownforms. Good luck, Randall Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 9:48 PMSubject: Planing Form & Binder Source Hello, Just starting to put together some tools for rod building. Could someonepoint me in the direction of a source for planing forms and binders. Thanks for the help. JIM from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 18 12:58:38 2001 f2IIwbe24872 Subject: Austin TX List,I am going to be going to Austin sometime this year to work on a hotel that is being built there. Is anyone on the list in the general vicinity of Austin?Bret from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 18 13:00:44 2001 f2IJ0he25068 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Bob, I have some great books on Bamboo, as a matter of fact about the onlyoneof importance I don't have is Perry Fraziers little book. However, I would liketo add one more to my collection. One that bears no relationship to all theothers. It is not a how to build it book nor is it a book of appreciation ofbamboo, nor even a semi technical reference on the noble cane. It is acollection of your stories. I regret that I have not collected them as theyhave come to me on the internet, but hopefully you have saved them. Pleaseconsider publishing them even if it is little more than a bunch ofmimeographedsheets. I think you have an exceptional talent as a writer nearly asexceptional as your talent for bamboo rods. Thanks Ralph Who knows? it might be a whole new career. Give Billie my love. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 18 13:33:26 2001 f2IJXPe25903 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor List,Had the privelege of fishing with Bob on Friday. He told me about Troy'supcoming visit. Not only is Bob a talented rodmaker and writer, he's greatfunto fish with.I consider Bob a good friend. Here's a question to ponder: What othermutual obsession would sing a siren song so loud and clear as to call a giant,pony-tailed, ex-biker; and a mild-mannered (well, sometimes >grin Well, today seems a bit boring, guys... Why? -- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 18 13:33:54 2001 f2IJXre25965 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:33:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Shawn,We do just what you mention, three of four times a year. And you wouldmake a niceaddition to any of our gatherings. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Wish that all of us here on the list could get together for a huge rodseminar/fishing trip/chili cook off/beer fest someday, sort of a "WorldWide BambooWeekend" type thing! ;^)Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 13:44:19 2001 f2IJiHe26393 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:43:38 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Harry,unfortunately the only gathering I got to attend so far was in Fergus,Ontario. Ialmost made it to the Catskills one last fall but couldn't get away.I'm talking about the mother of all gatherings, a huge one, wouldn't itbe asight! 100's of bamboo-philes all in one place! The logistics would be anightmare and I'msure there would still be tons that couldn't make it sadly. Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Shawn,We do just what you mention, three of four times a year. And you wouldmake a niceaddition to any of our gatherings. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Wish that all of us here on the list could get together for a huge rodseminar/fishing trip/chili cook off/beer fest someday, sort of a "WorldWide BambooWeekend" type thing! ;^)Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 14:30:23 2001 f2IKUMe27385 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Nova Scotia Gathering Friends,I have been throwing the idea of organizing a gathering here in NovaScotia around for some time.Here is what I would like from everyone who thinks they might beinterested if I was to get this going.1. An e mail stating that you might be interested (NOT BINDING, just so Icouldget a feel for the interest level) Please indicate if your interest level i.e."Wouldprobably attend", "might attend", "definitely would attend" and so on2. Suggestions for topics (perhaps something that was missing at theothergatherings?)3. A list of people who would be willing to do lectures/demos.4. When do you feel would be a good time?Feel free, even if you aren't planning to attend, to send your easterncoast of Canada, north of Maine,USA. It is a diverse fishing area, as well as abeinga tourists dream. The US dollar is worth around $1.40 Canadian, a nice bonus( from anAmerican point of view anyway ;^) )I would probably (????) be looking at next year for a date(or is that toofaraway??), as there is a gathering in Ontario this year (I think?? Am I rightTed??)and that would give me lots of time to arrange it and people time to plan forthetrip.Please respond with subject of "Nova Scotia Gathering" so I can weed themessages out. Lets see what we get,Shawn from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Mar 18 15:33:54 2001 f2ILXre28802 Subject: Re: Nova Scotia Gathering Yes, Shawn, there is a gathering in Ontario, may 26, 27. Info about theGathering, registration, etc. was mailed last week to everyone on my list. If you haven't got it yet, it should arrive in the post early this week. ----------From: Shawn Pineo Subject: Nova Scotia GatheringDate: Sunday, March 18, 2001 4:32 PM Friends,I have been throwing the idea of organizing a gatheringhere in NovaScotia around for some time.Here is what I would like from everyone who thinks theymight beinterested if I was to get this going.1. An e mail stating that you might be interested (NOT BINDING, justso I couldget a feel for the interest level) Please indicate if your interest leveli.e. "Wouldprobably attend", "might attend", "definitely would attend" and so on2. Suggestions for topics (perhaps something that was missing at theothergatherings?)3. A list of people who would be willing to do lectures/demos.4. When do you feel would be a good time?Feel free, even if you aren't planning to attend, to send your easterncoast of Canada, north of Maine,USA. It is a diverse fishing area, aswell as a beinga tourists dream. The US dollar is worth around $1.40 Canadian, a nicebonus ( from anAmerican point of view anyway ;^) )I would probably (????) be looking at next year for a date(or is thattoo faraway??), as there is a gathering in Ontario this year (I think?? Am Iright Ted??)and that would give me lots of time to arrange it and people time to plan trip.Please respond with subject of "Nova Scotia Gathering" so I can weedthemessages out. Lets see what we get,Shawn from lblan@provide.net Sun Mar 18 15:36:35 2001 f2ILaZe29019 Subject: RE: Shop Visitor Harry wrote: I missed the thread where Wayne and others talked about the "old days" ofmaking rods inisolation. I won't mention names other than Wayne's, but we all owe thoseearly guys whostarted this list and the early gatherings a great debt. Hey Biondo; I think he's callin' you old! Seriously though, I remember someof the conversations with Wayne when he was writing the book. He wentthrough considerable pains gleaning some of the information. A conversationhere, a question there, a name dropped in the right place... despite thebooks that had been written, there just was not a lot of information outthere for the taking. Wayne deserves a great deal of credit for what is soreadily available today. Then Harry wrote: The only way to re-pay it is the way Timothy did, by teaching some kidabout fishing. I don't know why, but this immediately brought a couple of friends to mind.Many of you know him, most don't, Frank Love (http://www.curro.net/TbbqVI/frank/index.html ) owned the campgroundwherethe Thursday night picnic preceding the Grayrock Gathering has historicallytaken place. When Frank passed away last year, a friend of ours, who writesan outdoors column for a local newspaper wrote an article about Frank.Frank's closest friend discussed one of their mutual pleasures in thearticle. He stated that he and Frank loved to guide, because it allowed themthe chance to meet people at their very best. I feel that this simple factis what makes sharing such a great experience. Larry Blan from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 16:53:57 2001 f2IMrue00593 OAA22688 Subject: Grindstone Anglers forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0AFBC.5DC248A0 Has anyone had experience with the forms from Grindstone Anglers? Do =they have a web page? ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0AFBC.5DC248A0 Has anyone had experience with the = Grindstone Anglers? Do they have a webpage? ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0AFBC.5DC248A0-- from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Mar 18 17:19:15 2001 f2INJEe01293 Subject: speaking of gatherings... Has anyone heard anymore of the Troutdale gathering? I emailed Kevin about 2 weeks ago and haven't heard anything ? Anybody heard more than me? Just trying to make plansJim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from castafly@gbis.com Sun Mar 18 18:49:16 2001 f2J0nFe02728 QAA17145 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would work forthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Does anyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwhere toget them? Thanks! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Mar 18 19:23:50 2001 f2J1Nne03406 Subject: Re: $330 bastard? To go down this road again would be cruel and un-natural punishment. At 07:48 AM 3/18/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: I have been reading the archives and came across the the topic of theBastardbamboo rod. I went to his sight and read his archives on his ordeal inmakingbamboo rods. Well suffice it to say, he spent over $150,000, had to rebuildhis mills several times, brought in professionals to help and consult himandwanted $4,400 for his first rod. He now sells his rods for $600-$830 andwithand extra tip and no rod case. Isn't it Ironic, the God of the High grassmust fish with bamboo and it isn't a Bastard either. I wonder if he stillsays he can build a rod just as good as a T&T for $150 or if rodmakerschargeto much? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Mar 18 19:27:01 2001 f2J1Qxe03631 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor If you want to make rods in isolation move to OZ or NZ for a while :-) Tony I missed the thread where Wayne and others talked about the "old days"ofmaking rods in isolation. I won't mention names other than Wayne's, butwe allowe those early guys who started this list and the early gatherings a greatdebt. The only way to re-pay it is the way Timothy did, by teaching somekidabout fishing. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Mar 18 20:03:23 2001 f2J23Me04426 0000 (63.228.47.16) Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I drilled three holes in my heat gun oven and monitor the temp in threeplaces with candy thermometers-----Original Message----- Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would workforthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Doesanyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwheretoget them? Thanks! from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Mar 18 20:15:49 2001 f2J2Fme04774 2001 18:15:50 PST Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions i did the same thing but use a brinkman grillthermometer. timothy --- Dave Norling wrote:I drilled three holes in my heat gun oven andmonitor the temp in threeplaces with candy thermometers-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Ferguson Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 6:50 PMSubject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The onlything left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure thetemperature inside the ovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candythermometer would work forthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensivethermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wireconnecting the two). Does anyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand ofthermometer to use and wheretoget them? Thanks! ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 21:55:19 2001 f2J3tIe06356 TAA11728 Subject: tung oil varnish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0AFE5.F359E3E0 I also understand it has issues with with humidity and protection = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0AFE5.F359E3E0 tung oil for finishing. I also understand it has issues with with = protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0AFE5.F359E3E0-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Mar 19 01:32:19 2001 f2J7WIe09919 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:32:16 -0800 Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:32:16 GMT Subject: Re: tung oil varnish FILETIME=[B92CE3A0:01C0B046] Seems to have worked pretty well for the last 150 yrs or soA.J. From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: tung oil varnishDate: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:59:33 -0800 also understand it has issues with with humidity and protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to water? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from farell@ma.ultranet.com Mon Mar 19 04:18:55 2001 f2JAIse11364 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A0B_01C0B034.E0749AA0 I use a meat thermometer that has a cable hooked to a digital =timer/thermometer. Thanks; Tom Farrellfarell@ma.ultranet.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 11:50 AMSubject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do =isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside the =ovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would work =forthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Does =anyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use and =where toget them? Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_0A0B_01C0B034.E0749AA0 I use a meat thermometer that has a = a digital timer/thermometer. Thanks; Tom Farrellfarell@ma.ultranet.com ----- Original Message ----- Jeff = Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 = AM Suggestions left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the = inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a= Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_0A0B_01C0B034.E0749AA0-- from dickay@alltel.net Mon Mar 19 06:53:19 2001 f2JCrIe12770 srv.alltel.net Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:53:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions Jeff, Another option would be to go tohttp://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=HH11_HH12&Nav=teml04 Thisis ahandheld instrument that is of field technician grade accuracy. If youpurchased the dual input version you could read either temperature or thedifferance between the two temperatures at the push of a button. Theinstrument comes with the appropriate number of 36" long thermocouples.Replacement or longer thermocouples are easy to make, simply buy thepropertype (K) thermocouple extension wire, strip it. and twist it together. Ifyou have access to a torch, form a small bead out of the twisted wires.This step is not necessary as long as the wires are twisted togethertightly. You might also try Heating & Air Conditioning Wholesale Supply houses forthis type of instrument. I know the Robertshaw and Universal ElectricalInstrument (UEI) make instruments of this type for about the same price.Hope this helpsDick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would workforthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Doesanyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwheretoget them? Thanks! from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Mar 19 08:24:10 2001 (may be forged)) f2JEO9e14594 (5.5.2653.19) atlasc1@earthlink.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: tung oil varnish Adam -- You have to be careful with AJ Thramer, he exaggerates, it hasn't been morethan 147 years. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tung oil varnish Seems to have worked pretty well for the last 150 yrs or soA.J. From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: tung oil varnishDate: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:59:33 -0800 also understand it has issues with with humidity and protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to water? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Mar 19 09:45:13 2001 f2JFjCe17678 Subject: Re: tung oil varnish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B048.76C17E20 Hi Adam,I'd suggest you read an article written by Feist and Peterson in the ="Fine Wordworking" May/June 1987 titled "Protecting wood from humidity". =That article rates various finishes for MEE which stands for moisture =excluding effectiveness. They rate tung oil very poorly compared to =other finishes as do they for tung gloss spar varnish. The same article =rates polyurethane gloss varnish much higher and also shows that a coat =of wax is the best. The article is probably in the rodmakers archives =someplace.Ray Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 7:59 PMSubject: tung oil varnish finishing. I also understand it has issues with with humidity and =protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to = ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B048.76C17E20 Hi Adam,I'd suggest you read an = Feist and Peterson in the "Fine Wordworking" May/June 1987 titled = wood from humidity". That article rates various finishes for MEE which = compared to other finishes as do they for tung gloss spar varnish. The = article rates polyurethane gloss varnish much higher and also shows that = someplace.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 = PMSubject: tung oil varnish tung oil for finishing. I also understand it has issues with with = protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to = ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B048.76C17E20-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 09:52:09 2001 f2JFq8e18191 2001 07:52:11 PST Subject: Re: tung oil varnish ray, i have a question for you. when you rehab orrepair a rod that has been waxed. what do you do toinsure the rod is clear of wax before you varnish? timothy --- Ray Gould wrote:Hi Adam,I'd suggest you read an article written by Feist andPeterson in the "Fine Wordworking" May/June 1987titled "Protecting wood from humidity". That articlerates various finishes for MEE which stands formoisture excluding effectiveness. They rate tung oilvery poorly compared to other finishes as do they polyurethane gloss varnish much higher and alsoshows that a coat of wax is the best. The article isprobably in the rodmakers archives someplace.Ray---- - Original Message ----- From: Adam Vigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 7:59 PMSubject: tung oil varnish tung oil for finishing. I also understand it hasissues with with humidity and protection againstwater. So how does tung oil varnish stand up towater? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Mar 19 10:32:00 2001 f2JGVxe19779 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:28:01 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: speaking of gatherings... it's may 5 & 6, as referred to in kevin's older posting. he has confirmedthe dates and location with the landowner.it's going to be held (at least one day will be) on a private farm with fourtrophy trout lakes, about a half hour from portland. i think that kevin is going to give us and update soon. he's still lookingto make this a highly participatory meeting, to get as many people aspossible to present at least one topic related to bambooo fly rods. chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: speaking of gatherings... Has anyone heard anymore of the Troutdale gathering? I emailed Kevin about 2 weeks ago and haven't heard anything ? Anybody heard more than me? Just trying to make plansJim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Mar 19 12:29:36 2001 f2JITZe24484 Subject: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "melted paraffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods and probably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishing books, the thin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers very little in the way of protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquid water. Its primary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it (i.e., absorb the wear- and-tear). --Rich from oakmere@carol.net Mon Mar 19 12:59:35 2001 f2JIxYe25700 Subject: RE: P&L Varmor R10 Hi Ray and others: What is the best thinner to use with the R10? I want to make sure that anythickening from air exposure can be controlled and make sure the viscositystays as when first opened. Any suggestions? Thanks. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 13:07:42 2001 f2JJ7fe26131 2001 11:02:30 PST Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax sounds like maybe that might be a good reason to useit. timothy --- RMargiotta@aol.com wrote:Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test wasdone using "melted paraffin", something a lot different than the waxeswe use on rods and probably applied a lot thicker. According to mywood finishing books, the thin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods)offers very little in the way of protection from water vapor and prolongedexposure to liquid water. Its primary purpose is to protect the finish that'sunderneath it (i.e., absorb the wear- and-tear). --Rich ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Mar 19 13:25:02 2001 f2JJP2e27081 net.com [204.253.245.125] (may be forged)) Subject: RE: Shop Visitor Jeez, would you give me the honor of delivering my eulogy someday, Bob?What a way with words. Not only is Bob a very talented craftsman, andautomechanic, and expert in martial arts, and accomplished guitar player,and...... I'd like to nominate Bob Nunley for the First Annual RodmakersPoet Award. Some of y'all may have heard of a particular cowboy namedBaxter Black, whose prose is merely interesting to the major population, butis much deeper and intensely personal to those few that "know" what Baxteris saying. I wanted to relate some of my thoughts on the 8+ hour drive back south, soy'all get the complete picture. Indeed, I was immediately laid out by afifty pound ball of energy in a furry coat when I first entered Bob's house.I don't remember her name, but this lovable puppy is just plain cool. Ifyou ever find that you aren't able to care for her Bob, you just call andI'll come get her. She is one sweet and friendly pup. I'll be sure to saveall my leftover pizza crust and send her a care package every couplemonths...... I can't do anything to add to Bob's description of his home. He wasspot-on. Only thing that suprised me was that Bob's computer was not rightbeside his forms in the shop. I'd have sworn that he was right therecarrying on our e- mail conversations, while concurrently planing strips withthe other hand and turning a ferrule station with his feet. This explainsthe worn out carpet from the computer room to the shop door..... It would be one thing if Bob just had this creative streak, from which grandembellishment flowed. Many people have this talent, to take somethingordinary and decorate it like a Christmas tree, until it sparkles with allsorts of light and color. Some call it tall tales. This is not Bob. Rather, Bob is like the cowboy poet, who has this incredibly philosophicalmind which refuses to merely observe. No, Bob is one of those rare few toactually "sees" what is around him and describe it. Few with the analyticalmind that Bob posesses can express their logical thoughts clearly, andinterstingly at the same time. Tired as I was from the "wee hours" driveup, I did not yawn one time during my 12 hour visit -- ask Bob! Well to be sure, you got the thanks going in the wrong direction, Bob. Comeon, everybody, think about this. Here is a guy who takes a Saturday anddonates it toward the betterment of a person he met briefly at SRG sixmonths ago. And then he thanks me for it??? I don't think he could keep atrade secret if he had to. If you get to spend an hour with him, it will bean hour very well spent. I don't know if Bob is THE foremost authority onall these techniques that are now so strange to me. But what he explainedto me made sense, and that's a great confidence-builder. Remember, I'm anengineer....... THANK YOU BOB for your kindness, intelligence, and wit, which you so freelyshare. You are not only a role model to me concerning the technical detailsof this craft, but also about the fulfillment of sharing life's experiencewith no expectation of reciprocation. Regards to all -- TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Shop Visitor Well, today seems a bit boring, guys... Why? Nothing to do! Oh, theweather's great, the fishing would be good if it wasn't the weekend and Iwouldn't have to shoot or cut my way into the river, but fishing isn'twhat's on my mind. from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Mar 19 14:20:51 2001 f2JKKoe29500 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxapplied toa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of the finish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal. Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "meltedparaffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods andprobably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishing books, thethin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers very little in the wayof protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquid water. Itsprimary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it (i.e., absorbthe wear- and-tear). --Rich -- from martinj@aa.net Mon Mar 19 14:56:33 2001 f2JKuWe01345 Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:56:29 -0800 Subject: RE: P&L Varmor R10 I called up Pratt & Lambert a couple years ago and asked this question. Theysaid any good brand of paint thinner would work just fine. Just make sure itis clean. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: P&L Varmor R10 Hi Ray and others: What is the best thinner to use with the R10? I want to make sure that anythickening from air exposure can be controlled and make sure the viscositystays as when first opened. Any suggestions? Thanks. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 15:20:26 2001 f2JLKPe02921 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Reed, et al: I have to admit that I hadn't thought of wax as a rod finishing product. Iam a rank novice in this arena, but it seems to me that most fishing rodsget more use than a refinished artifact of furniture. What I am wonderingis how does the wax hold up to putting a rod into a sock and taking it outrepeatedly. How about the wear of wind and water while the rod, and thefinish, is under an almost constant stress load. How does the wax hold upto frequent handling or extremes of temperature (here in the west I oftenfish in 100 plus degree heat in the summer). Is wax a finish that is bestused on rods which will see very little or no actual use, or can you use awax finish on rods intended to be fished. And finally, how is it applied,and how often. Is it rubbed on? If so, does it need to be re-waxedfrequently to maintain the important layer of protection? Oh, yea. How does bug repellant and other types of chemical stuff that wesometimes use while fishing affect the wax? I guess it just seems like a wax finish might get really built up on a rodthat is fished and used frequently. I wonder if maybe a varnish or urethanefinish might be a better alternative on a rod that gets more use and lesscare? Jason Swan From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:22:57 -0500 Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxappliedtoa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of thefinish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal. Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "meltedparaffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods andprobably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishing books, thethin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers very little in the wayof protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquid water. Itsprimary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it (i.e., absorbthe wear-and-tear). --Rich -- from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Mar 19 15:29:48 2001 f2JLTle03588 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Jason,I was suggesting a wax finish over a varnish finish. The wax givestremendousresistance to moisture changes (much better than varnish) and protects thevarnishagainst harsh chemicals such as DEET (which eats spar varnish up).Only a few light coats of a hard wax are applied and buffed down, withsufficient time between coats. Doing this every few weeks, even in thesummer, isnot hard; but usually its necessary only twice a season. Putting it in the sockwill only buff the finish. There should be no discernible buildup, but turps willremove it if necessary without harming the varnish.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jason Swan wrote: Reed, et al: I have to admit that I hadn't thought of wax as a rod finishing product. Iam a rank novice in this arena, but it seems to me that most fishing rodsget more use than a refinished artifact of furniture. What I am wonderingis how does the wax hold up to putting a rod into a sock and taking it outrepeatedly. How about the wear of wind and water while the rod, and thefinish, is under an almost constant stress load. How does the wax hold upto frequent handling or extremes of temperature (here in the west I oftenfish in 100 plus degree heat in the summer). Is wax a finish that is bestused on rods which will see very little or no actual use, or can you use awax finish on rods intended to be fished. And finally, how is it applied,and how often. Is it rubbed on? If so, does it need to be re-waxedfrequently to maintain the important layer of protection? Oh, yea. How does bug repellant and other types of chemical stuff that wesometimes use while fishing affect the wax? I guess it just seems like a wax finish might get really built up on a rodthat is fished and used frequently. I wonder if maybe a varnish orurethanefinish might be a better alternative on a rod that gets more use and lesscare? Jason Swan From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:22:57 -0500 Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxappliedtoa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of thefinish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal.Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -- from thogan@rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 19 15:35:06 2001 f2JLZ5e03916 f2JLWPw06071 Subject: Oversize initial planing I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 15:40:53 2001 f2JLeqe04406 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Thank, Reed. I didn't realize that the wax was in addition to the varnish.My question now, then, is why not? It certainly isn't going to hurt thevarnish, so why not put in the extra effort? I'm sure there are somecomments out there waiting for this question... Jason From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:31:51 -0500 Cc: RMargiotta@aol.com, Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Jason,I was suggesting a wax finish over a varnish finish. The wax givestremendousresistance to moisture changes (much better than varnish) and protectsthevarnishagainst harsh chemicals such as DEET (which eats spar varnish up).Only a few light coats of a hard wax are applied and buffed down, withsufficient time between coats. Doing this every few weeks, even in thesummer,isnot hard; but usually its necessary only twice a season. Putting it in thesockwill only buff the finish. There should be no discernible buildup, but turpswillremove it if necessary without harming the varnish.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jason Swan wrote: Reed, et al: I have to admit that I hadn't thought of wax as a rod finishing product. Iam a rank novice in this arena, but it seems to me that most fishing rodsget more use than a refinished artifact of furniture. What I amwonderingis how does the wax hold up to putting a rod into a sock and taking it outrepeatedly. How about the wear of wind and water while the rod, and thefinish, is under an almost constant stress load. How does the wax hold upto frequent handling or extremes of temperature (here in the west Ioftenfish in 100 plus degree heat in the summer). Is wax a finish that is bestused on rods which will see very little or no actual use, or can you use awax finish on rods intended to be fished. And finally, how is it applied,and how often. Is it rubbed on? If so, does it need to be re-waxedfrequently to maintain the important layer of protection? Oh, yea. How does bug repellant and other types of chemical stuff thatwesometimes use while fishing affect the wax? I guess it just seems like a wax finish might get really built up on a rodthat is fished and used frequently. I wonder if maybe a varnish orurethanefinish might be a better alternative on a rod that gets more use and lesscare? Jason Swan From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:22:57 -0500 Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of waxhasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxappliedtoa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of thefinish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal.Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -- from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 19 15:41:25 2001 f2JLfOe04502 Subject: humidity Hi folks, When storing rods in a room. What would be consdrered the mostanmount of humidity acceptable before you would need to reduce it byartificial means, i.e. a dehumidifier. Rich Colo from oakmere@carol.net Mon Mar 19 15:49:29 2001 f2JLnSe05250 Subject: RE: R10 Thinner Hi Guys: Thanks for all the inputs. Agreed, the stuff is expensive and I want to usethe best tinner to keep the quality of the product. Thanks. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Mon Mar 19 16:04:03 2001 f2JM42e06169 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions -----Original Message----- Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would workforthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Doesanyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwheretoget them? Thanks! Jeff, A lot of people have recommended an oven thermometer by Timex that theybought at Target for around $15-$20. I went to go purchase one a month orso ago and couldn't find it. They did have a thermometer by Taylor (IIRC,don't have it in front of me right now) which looks similar to thedescriptions of the Timex thermometer people had described: digital display,timer, temperature alert, separate temperature probe w/ heat resistantcable, temp range up to 400F (again, IIRC). It was around $19. So I boughtone. I am in the process of finishing my oven, so I haven't given it theacid test. But I hope to soon. BTW, Target has a website w/ online ordering if there isn't a store nearyou. They listed the Timex thermometer when I checked a couple of monthsago, but they said it was out of stock. I get the impression that theydon't carry it anymore. I haven't checked online for the Taylor therm. Keith from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 19 16:28:53 2001 f2JMSqe07425 Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:33:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing Why not set your formes to the finished taper and use the oppesot side fortheoversize planing. It works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 19 16:32:04 2001 f2JMW3e07678 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing opposite side for the oversize planing. It works for me. On the Butt sections Ijust go to the finished taper.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from thinair@townsqr.com Mon Mar 19 16:33:37 2001 f2JMXVe07818 compaqwww.townsqr.com ;Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:26:23 -0600 Subject: Re: big fish on little rod. I send that emotion, Terry. To see what a little cane rod with UL tacklecan handle, check out what I was able to land a week ago yesterday athttp://users.townsqr.com/thinair/browntrout.htm. The photos take a littletime to load, but they're there. I posted the taper for this rod, amongothers, about two weeks ago. ----- Original Message -----From: "Terry Kirkpatrick" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:04 PMSubject: big fish on little rod. Last Sunday afternoon I visited a "Net" friend over in Orlando. We'dplaned to fish a river at a state park but he found it was littered withcanoesand suggested we go to a pond not to far from his house(Never mindwhere.) We launched the canoe and he guided while I fished. It was a very smallpond, maybe only an acre or so, so I figured bream. I took my 6 1/2 ft4wt.bamboo rod. After catching several bream (One of which actually too line -- andturnedout to be only 5 in long) and several fly changes, my friend, Jerry,suggested Ichange back to a red bead head wooly booger that I'd been using earlier.Irealized all the fly changes had eaten up my 4lb. tippet. The onlythingI hadwith me was 6wt. (as we shall see, God was smiling on me.) After a few casts the line went tight. Nice bream. It headed out and Istarted putting a little pressure on it, trying to get it in so I couldreleaseit. When it felt the pressure the fish took off like a rocket at thecape!This was No BREAM! After about 4 or 5 minutes, I finally landed a 4 to41/2lb. large mouth bass! This on a rebuilt 6 1/2 ft 4wt. bamboo rod. So the next time someone starts telling you about how bamboo isn't verystrongtell them you know a guy in Florida that takes bass up to 4 1/2lb. onthem.... ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 19 16:57:04 2001 f2JMv3e09124 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing This is what happens when you hit "send" before you proof read yourmessage.It is not all there.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Why not set your formes to the finished taper and use the oppesot side oversize planing. It works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from lblan@provide.net Mon Mar 19 17:39:39 2001 f2JNdce11044 Subject: RE: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Reed; I'm not giving up that little tub of Rennaissance Wax for anything. Iuse it on just about everything, including all the little steel widgets Iseem to have accumulated. I did give Zymol Titanium a try, but the price isa bit steep. They do have a few interesting "wax facts" on their web site,especially in reference to carnauba. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 3:23 PM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thinfilm of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration.Wax applied toa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing"of the finish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal. Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of anyfinish, ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap yourpeanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "meltedparaffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods andprobably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishingbooks, thethin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers verylittle in the wayof protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquidwater. Itsprimary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it(i.e., absorbthe wear-and-tear). --Rich -- from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Mar 19 17:44:52 2001 f2JNipe11327 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing I plane to size in three stages. The first is done in a wood form with anelectric plane to get a relatively straight, triangular, taper. I don'ttry to get an exact size at this stage, just "eye ball" them for shape andsize. This is done very fast. The second stage is done with a #4 1/2Bailey plane in the steel forms so that each strip is identical in size andapproximately .020" to .030" oversize. For example, if your strips are 4feet long and your form is 6 feet long, do your planing on the back end ofthe form. In this way you have backed up 24 inches or approximately four 5inch stations or .030" of taper. The Bailey plane is set to take off .010"to .015" shavings. The strips are then bound and heat-treated. Heat-treating shrinks the bamboo so that I end up with strips about .015"oversize. I do the final planing in the front end of the form, which isset to size, with a Veritas block plane. The Veritas plane has an A2blade. If my strips are straight, and the A2 blade is "very sharp", I havevery few problems with node tearing. ----------From: Tony Spezio Subject: Re: Oversize initial planingDate: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:59 PM This is what happens when you hit "send" before you proof read yourmessage.It is not all there.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Why not set your formes to the finished taper and use the oppesot side oversize planing. It works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial passisoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so byhow muchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Mar 19 18:52:04 2001 f2K0q2e13299 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:51:18 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Shop Visitor Way to go Bob, It sounds a bit like my first visits to Tony Young's place. We weren'tquite as productive as you and Troy but we did do a hell of a lot oftalking. We still do when we get together. Somebody suggested that you should publish a collection of Nunleyadventures. Bloody great idea!! It'd deserve a spot on the NY Times bestseller list. I'm still cleaning coffee and bits of cookie out of mykeyboard after reading your last tale of disaster. I usually sign off with"stay lucky" and in your case I think it is particularly pertinent : ) Mike from piscator@macatawa.org Mon Mar 19 19:38:12 2001 f2K1cBe14496 Subject: Lathe problem This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B0B5.0903FF80 Hey all you machinists out there in cyberspace. My 5 month old 7x12 Grizzley Metal lathe is binding when I use the auto =feed. The binding appears to be occuring in the gears on the saddle =somewhere. Am I missing an adjustment or something? I've cleaned and =oiled everything, and believe that I have the thing tuned well, except = said that if they can't resolve the problem they will replace the lathe, =but it took me a week to cean off all the cosmoline the first time and I =don't want to go through that again if I don't have to. Any help would be, well,. . . helpful. Thanks, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B0B5.0903FF80 Hey all you machinists out = cyberspace. My 5 month old 7x12Grizzley = will replace the lathe, but it took me a week to cean off all the = to. Any help would be, well,. . .= Thanks, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B0B5.0903FF80-- from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Mar 19 21:25:36 2001 f2K3PZe18562 Subject: Not Even Close ! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B05E.614B19A0 Well I have heard of burnout on the list before ,But I'm the opposite. I just started a job (a real one)LOLAnd I come home from work and want to start on my next It S***Ks. But got to make a living. Want to be a professional fly =fisherman, but heard in a movie there is no such thing. LOL Hope I =didn't take up too much space ,but just had to vent. If any on the list =make rods for a living ,consider your self lucky. So, till the weekend ,Best regards ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B05E.614B19A0 Well I have heard of burnout on the = ,But I'm the opposite. I just started a = one)LOLAnd I come home from work and wantto = nextrod but find myself falling asleep. I = be a professional fly fisherman, but heard in a movie there is no such = LOL Hope I didn't take up too much space ,but just had to vent. If any = list make rods for a living , Best regardsTony = ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B05E.614B19A0-- from timklein@qwest.net Mon Mar 19 22:50:17 2001 f2K4oGe20672 (63.225.127.117) Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions Tom Farrell wrote: I use a meat thermometer that has a cable hooked to a digitaltimer/thermometer. I use the same thing. They're available at places like K-Mart and Target forabout 15 bucks. ---Tim from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 23:32:21 2001 f2K5WKe21764 VAA01355 Subject: Dry Fly Taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0B0BD.48A8BF60 I will be spending a week on the Hot Creek Ranch in June. It is Dry Fly =fishing only. The winds in the eastern sierras can be tough to deal =with. I would like some reccomendations for tapers fpr a 7'6" 5wt or 8' =4wt that has a good medium fast action. Thanks, Adam Vigil ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0B0BD.48A8BF60 I will be spending a week on the Hot = June. It is Dry Fly fishing only. The winds in the eastern sierras can = or 8' 4wt that has a good medium fast action. Thanks, AdamVigil ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0B0BD.48A8BF60-- from saweiss@flash.net Mon Mar 19 23:43:42 2001 f2K5hae22325 f2K5hbE60552;Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:43:37 -0500 Subject: Re: P&L Varmor R10 Organization: Prodigy Internet I use P&L's Duosol.Steve What is the best thinner to use with the R10? I want to make sure that anythickening from air exposure can be controlled and make sure the viscositystays as when first opened. Any suggestions? Thanks. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Mon Mar 19 23:58:19 2001 f2K5wJe22886 (199.183.105.42) Subject: Airflow Oven Checkout Organization: Integrated Mill Systems Hello all, Just ran through a dry run with my heat gun oven tonight. There seem to bea few people in the process of building ovens lately, so I thought I wouldshare some ideas/results with the list. The oven is basically a cross between Frank Neunemann's and Jon McAnulty'sovens. It consists of a 5" outer pipe (5" x 60" type B gas double wallgalvanized vent) and a 3" inner pipe (standard single wall galvanized vent).I took the easy way out and attached the 3" vent to the inner wall of the 5"vent using blind rivets just like Frank's oven. But I decided to use thisoven horizontally like Jon's oven, so I attached two legs fashioned fromsheet metal to hold it up. This feature is nice because the legs don't seemto get hot at all, so there isn't a concern for the surface where the ovensits. A 5" duct cap closes one end of the oven, while another cap with one3" diameter hole (for the inner vent) and another smaller hole (for the heatgun nozzle) cut into it seals the open end of the oven (again ala Frank N.) One feature I added which seems to be unique is a 9" heat shield at thenozzle entry into the oven. The heat shield has a slight conical shape toit, with the larger end at the nozzle opening. The idea is to funnel theair from the gun for a short run, hopefully giving it a little morevelocity. I was also trying to prevent the open end of the oven fromoverheating, and get a more even temperature throughout. This heat shieldmay have worked a little too well. I drilled three temperature probe holes, one in the middle, and two about 6" from either end. I didn't drill the holes vertically, but instead angledthemabout 30deg from the horizontal. The holes are angled so that thetemperature probe stays put. One thing to note: don't drill the probe holestoo tight. The metal expands as things heat up, and the probe gets hard toremove and insert (as I found out.) I powered the oven using a Wagner HT3000 gun with a temperature rangefrom220F - 1100F. The oven heated up quickly with the gun on high. After about10 minutes or so, I was nearing 350F, so I backed off on the temp setting abit. At around 20 minutes or so, things seemed to be in steady-state at350F with the gun set at just below setting 7. The temperature readingswere as follows: Closed end: 352FMiddle: 347FOpen end: 354F All in all, I am very happy with the performance. Hopefully I will get thechance this weekend to toast some bamboo. Will update the list then ifanyone is interested. Thanks to Frank and Jon for their great oven ideas. Keith Brewster Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 20 00:27:45 2001 f2K6Rie23765 Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper Give me a call about Hot Creek Ranch. I go there 6 to 7 times a year (including Lifetime Opening and Lifetime Closing). I fish cane. I know you asked about a 7'6" taper. I used to fish a Paul Young Perfectionist and my own version of one there but stopped twenty years ago. I now use 8 1/2 to9 1/2 foot rods. You need the length to control the line. Whatever you do, do not fall into the cult that follows the long leader Guru (I won't mention his name.) That style is better suited to the public stretch of Hot Creek. The Ranch deserves more respect than using a long drift that covers more than your singled-out target fish. The long leader guys on the Ranch do a tremendous job of catching a lot of the wrong fish. Hot Creek Ranch is best fished with a 8 to 10 foot leader and a short drift with the correct pattern for the moment and location on the stream. Do not use a long leader to cover up sloppy casting or inability to control how your line lands on the water. Hot Creek fish do not protect themselves by fleeing from each and every human sighting --they protect themselves bybeing selective. DO NOT GIVE THEM A LONG LOOK AT YOUR FLY. The pastRiverkeeper worked several years to convince me of this. have to retreat your line because you may only cast 40 times all day. The Ranch is a place where you watch, watch, watch; finally select which fish you want; watch some more; and finally cast and get the fish. On days, especially during the E. Infrequens hatch, you may just sit and watch the boiling water. Interestingly enough, Bob Brooks told me that of the 163 insects expectedto be found in Hot Creek, 130 or so are on the Ranch water and only 61 are on the lower public stretch. Give me a call (310) 446-4800 office (310) 476-4779 home Chris Lucker. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Mar 20 00:49:31 2001 f2K6nUe24334 WAA05697; Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper Thanks for the info, Although I have been fishing Hot Creek for over 20years it is good to hear others speak of it. I know of whom you speak say no"Mas" I mean more LOL. Do you have any recomendations for specific tapers.Ireally would like an 8' 4wt to try up there. AdamP.S. Stuck a 28" brown on a beetle above the ranch last year. Have apicture if you are interested in seeing it.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 07:09:45 2001 f2KD9ie28101 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I bought a digital food tester's thermometer from MSC that reads to, like,500 degrees. But it takes a looong time to get up to temp. I still use itbecause I have it, but wouldn't recommend them. We live and we learn. Brian from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Tue Mar 20 07:45:18 2001 f2KDjHe28855 Subject: Re: Airflow Oven Checkout -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Airflow Oven Checkout Hi Keith:Your oven tests sound very promising. Is there a drawing for thisparticularplan in the archives?Regards,Ed Hi Ed, As I mentioned, my oven is basically Frank Neunemann's oven design turnedonits side, ala Jon McNaulty's oven. The only changes I made were to add ainternal heat shield at the nozzle entry point. Jon's plans for his ovenare on the Rodmaker's site under the "Tips, FAQs, and Techniques" section.Plans for Frank's oven are on his website. A link to his (excellent) siteis located under the "Rodmaker's" section. If anyone is interested, I will try to shoot some pictures and post themsomewhere when I get the chance. Keith from stuart.rod@gmx.de Tue Mar 20 07:56:20 2001 f2KDuJe29200 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Hi Harry....... Perhaps rebinding worn out Bibles in pieces of retired bikers old leatherjackets?:-) Stuart Harry Boyd wrote: I consider Bob a good friend. Here's a question to ponder: What othermutual obsession would sing a siren song so loud and clear as to call agiant,pony- tailed, ex-biker; and a mild-mannered (well, sometimes >grin preacher together to form a friendship which will extend throughout theirlifetimes? from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 08:33:33 2001 f2KEXWe01018 2001 06:33:35 PST Subject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Mar 20 08:52:49 2001 f2KEqme02096 f2KEqOUd009912;Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:52:24 -0600 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats If you are using varnish to fill the wraps (I do this too) I have never beenable to get a good fill with only 2 coats. I wet sand with 1200 W. or D.,after the coat has dried well. It often takes several coats to get a perfectfinish ! Each coat often needs 2 days, or more before trying to sand it ! I don't dip first, but spray the rod after the wraps are finished.GMA from parataper@hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 08:53:58 2001 f2KErwe02225 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:53:55 -0800 HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:53:55 GMT FILETIME=[96350870:01C0B14D] Bob Nunley,Hi, I have a few questions for you about the bellinger rough beveller. How strait do the strips have to be in order to pass with a minimum of waste. Is strait at the nodes good enough, or do all the gradual bends need removed. At what rpm does the machine operate, and are their anyproblems with it in your opinion. Thanks, MP_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 09:06:51 2001 f2KF6oe02980 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:06:51 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Bill,You can only apply a second coat without sanding in acertain time frame. If the second coat is applied in thattime frame -- say 6-18 hours depending on the particularproduct -- the second coat bonds chemically to the first.Outside that time frame sanding is required to create amechanical bond. I usually apply two thin coats, then athird, slightly less thin coat before sanding. And allsanding is done with 1000 g or finer. Often I use 5 or morethin coats to get the look I want. Russ Gooding has a greattreatise on finishing wraps. If you'd like a copy, let meknow. HarryBill Walters wrote: I did the first couple, let them cure and then sanded with600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Mar 20 09:54:12 2001 (may be forged)) f2KFsBe05436 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: Every month or so it strikes me again what a great group and incredibleresource we have on this list and I just wanted to say thanks to all of you.Home none of my "warmer" comments (as in the recent tempering thread)everdiscourage anyone's participation, it's not often us relative newbies canget specific advice from genuine masters of a craft. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 20 10:05:59 2001 f2KG5we06135 ;Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:05:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions MSC Industrial Supply Co.(see http://www.mscdirect.com) has a 6" stem,200-1000 Fahrenheit, dry bi-metal thermometer which I use in my oven andlike it very much. The part No# 56440555 and the cost is around $22. Jack from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue Mar 20 11:14:08 2001 f2KHE7e09205 Subject: Re: dip motors Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream in Hawaii is somewhat difficult. . . Anyway, to make digging somewhat easier through the basement, I onlydrilled a 3/4 inch hole through my basement concrete with a masonry drillbit. ThenI used a 3/4 copper tube scrap and duct taped the end to my shop vac. Asyou ram the copper tube into the ground the dirt will be sucked up into the vac. I step up my dip tube to a larger diameter, but only a 3/4 pipe ends up being below the basement floor. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 11:14:55 2001 f2KHEse09307 2001 09:14:57 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Jerry, you wouldn't believe the diversity of theanswers I'm getting but at least a few people havementioned using a technique very similiar to yours. Doyou sand or do you use 0000 steel wool? Harry Boyd uses 0000 steel wool. Key seems to be applying thevarnish thinly and evenly and to start sanding (or isit wooling?) once the coats start getting smooth. Iused the thin plastic end of a very fine paintbrush,much in the same way you mention you use a knittingneedle, for at least the first coat. Used the brushitself on the second coat because the fine tip wouldpick up too much varnish and would make it a bugger tospread. Knitting needle may be easier to use but Iwonder if it doesn't take forever to apply a thin coatthat way. Anyway, I'm getting some real good adviceand really appreciate your getting back to me. Bill Walters--- Jerry Young wrote:Bill - I always apply about four coats to the wrapsbefore doing anysanding. Sometimes a total of 9 or 10 coats ofslightly thinned, warmpoly on the wraps applied with a knitting needle toavoid bubbles. Regards, Jerry Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Mar 20 12:16:28 2001 f2KIGRe11861 hme0.telusplanet.net Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:16:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions Guys, The bimetallic thermometers work great. Be aware however that the bulb onthe thermometer must be long enough to get into the hot part of the oven.The amount of insulation used in your oven will determine the stem length.In my case, I use a 10" stem as the insulation is 4". regards, Don At 11:06 AM 3/20/01 -0500, Jacques Follweiler wrote:MSC Industrial Supply Co.(see http://www.mscdirect.com) has a 6" stem,200-1000 Fahrenheit, dry bi-metal thermometer which I use in my oven andlike it very much. The part No# 56440555 and the cost is around $22. Jack from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 12:49:12 2001 f2KInBe13047 2001 10:49:14 PST Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper chris, i was teasing. i was asking you if you weretelling secrets. i was making fun. timothy --- CALucker@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 3/20/01 7:43:22 AM PacificStandard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: I am not kidding, but I have never understood whatthat expression means. Could you say it again differently, please. Areyou mad or joking or neither? Chris Lucker ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 12:58:13 2001 f2KIwCe13696 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:58:11 -0800 Subject: Re: dip motors Mark,Are we really supposed to feel sorry for your lack of fishing opportunitiesin Hawaii?? Try Maui. I hear there are a few trout over there. Grins,Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream inHawaii is somewhat difficult. . . --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Mar 20 13:14:01 2001 f2KJE0e14439 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish between coatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack cloth afterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Mar 20 13:57:43 2001 f2KJvge16164 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: dip motors When I was in Kona, I did a little fishing with my "bros" the locals whosorta adopted me... No fishing licenses are required in Hawaii... Did prettywell... I used their throw net! Cleaned them and cooked them right on the spot on the beach... incredible! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: dip motors Mark,Are we really supposed to feel sorry for your lack of fishingopportunitiesin Hawaii?? Try Maui. I hear there are a few trout over there. Grins,Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream inHawaii is somewhat difficult. . . --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Mar 20 14:03:19 2001 f2KK3Ie16430 PAA10234; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: dip motor One last time, svp. I'm looking at the Herback and Rademan catalog,does anyone have a drip motor(able) part number or speedrecommendation? Or one from another web-accessible company?Thanks, dws. from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Mar 20 14:17:34 2001 f2KKHXe17252 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Ray,I run a strong magnet over the rod after steel wooling it. It gets all the finewool particles from around the guides. I have had better finishes with 0000steel wool than with 2000 paper. I make sure the steel wool is a no oil wool.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish between coatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack cloth afterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:33 AMSubject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Mar 20 14:39:32 2001 f2KKdVe18870 PAA19857; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats ANybody done a workaround these problems using bronze wool (no steel/iron,norust)? Wooden boat folks find it works perfectly (don't know about the oil).dws. Tony Spezio wrote: Ray,I run a strong magnet over the rod after steel wooling it. It gets all the finewool particles from around the guides. I have had better finishes with 0000steel wool than with 2000 paper. I make sure the steel wool is a no oil wool.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish betweencoatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack clothafterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message --- --From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:33 AMSubject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Mar 20 15:01:49 2001 f2KL1me20104 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats I like the Ultra Sand product, in the finest grade (#000000). I cut a small patch and glue it to a wood block and use it like a sanding block. Costs more than plain steel wool, though.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Mar 20 15:35:57 2001 f2KLZue21647 NAA05623; Subject: Re: tung oil varnish Hi A.J., I hope the 150 years is historical and not personel experience LOL.Seriously though, what is the rundown on putting on a tung oil finish thatis correct. If you say it is good and use it that is good enough for me. Thanks, Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tung oil varnish Seems to have worked pretty well for the last 150 yrs or soA.J. From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: tung oil varnishDate: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:59:33 -0800 Ialso understand it has issues with with humidity and protection againstwater. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to water? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 15:39:14 2001 f2KLdDe21853 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:39:11 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Frank,Where are you finidng the Ultra Sand? I used to get it at Wallyworld, but they no longer carry it...Thanks in advance,Harry Frank Stetzer wrote: I like the Ultra Sand product, in the finest grade (#000000). --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 15:55:05 2001 f2KLt4e22807 2001 13:55:07 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats where do you get it? --- Frank Stetzer wrote:I like the Ultra Sand product, in the finest grade(#000000). I cut a small patch and glue it to a wood block anduse it like a sanding block. Costs more than plain steel wool,though. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerfulcomrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than awaterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman'sLuck", 1899. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 16:45:01 2001 f2KMj0e25071; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:43:18 -0800 Ron Barch , Rick Crenshaw,Charlie Curro ,Dennis Higham ,Mike Biondo , Ken Cole Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2001 Friends, Can you believe it's been nearly six months since SRG'00? It's even harder to believe the time has come to startworking towards our Gathering for this year. To that end,our esteemed webmeister Charlie Curro has posted aregistration form on the SRG website at:http://www.curro.net/srg2001/infoPage.html . Thanks,Charlie! On that page, you'll find a form to register for thisyear's gathering on October 25-27, 2001 at Fulton's Lodgeoutside Mountain Home, Arkansas. In 2000, we had 81 peoplein attendance. The crowd was almost too big. So this yearwe're going to limit the attendance to the first 60 peoplewho register. Registration forms will be accepted untilSeptember 1. After that, we'll cut the registration off. I'll make one more appeal this summer for participation,and of course we'll ask Ron Barch to mention us again in"The Planing Form". Maybe Bob Malucci will mention it in"PowerFibers" as well. Other than that, we won't worknearly as hard to get the word out. Limiting theregistration will make planning the food and the programsmuch simpler. Thanks, Rick! Requiring pre- registrationwill simplify the on-site administrative duties. To register, download the registration form and mail itwith a $30 non- refundable deposit to Mike Biondo. Thanks,Mike! The address is on the form. Yes, that's a priceincrease from previous years. But heck, we feed you 4-6meals for that price, and some of us eat quite a bit!! Idoubt you can beat that deal anywhere. If the $30registration fee is a problem, get in touch with me. We'llwork something out, I promise. I've mailed this to 87 folks who have either attended inthe past or asked to be included for 2001. You can see thatwe'll need to be prompt about getting registered. I'mreally looking forward to seeing you all again. I haven'tstarted working on the program for this year. Who knows,maybe we can get Bob Nunley to do something on shop safety!(sorry Bob, I tried to resist -- I really did! ) Send the forms to Mike, and maybe drop me a note to letme know you're coming. And of course, let me know how I canhelp make this the best Gathering ever. Good friends, good food, good programs, and great rods!Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 16:56:17 2001 f2KMuBe25609 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. Brian from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 16:59:30 2001 f2KMxTe25835 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:59:29 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 16:59:47 2001 f2KMxje25880 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:59:44 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here. Isthat a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Just kidding,Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 17:16:33 2001 f2KNGWe26821 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats It's like Lowe's or Home Depot. There must be one in TC or Big Rapids. I'msure there's one in Cadillac. And I'm no where near Chicago, and jackpinesgrow in the foredunes of Lake Michigan and the hot sand causes the cones toopen up and so there Larry Blan! Sorry to get so feisty, but I got mah pride. Chicago indeed. Brian from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Mar 20 17:36:51 2001 f2KNaoe27535 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:36:50 -0600 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from DragonflyMAE@aol.com Tue Mar 20 18:28:35 2001 f2L0SYe29123 Subject: lie-nielsen planes --part1_e.a76000f.27e94fac_boundary I'm wondering about the rod makers groove cut into the bottom of the low angle adjustable mouth block plane. Is it supose to make the final planing easer and is it worth the extra investment? Or should I ask; why it it worth the extra investment? Thanks Matthew --part1_e.a76000f.27e94fac_boundary I'm wondering about therod makers groove cut into the bottom of the low planing it it worth the extra investment? --part1_e.a76000f.27e94fac_boundary-- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Mar 20 18:35:30 2001 f2L0ZTe29454 QAA03074; Subject: Re: lie-nielsen planes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B15D.11D4AF80 Hi Matt, Here is Frank page and some explanation in what you wish to know.http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.html Hope it helps, Adam Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:28 PMSubject: lie-nielsen planes ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B15D.11D4AF80 Hi Matt, Here is Frank page and someexplanation = wish to know.http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.ht=ml Hope it helps, Adam ----- Original Message ----- DragonflyMAE@aol.com = Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 = PMSubject: lie-nielsen =planesI'm = ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B15D.11D4AF80-- from cathcreek@hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 19:12:13 2001 f2L1CCe00332 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:12:10 -0800 Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:12:10 GMT Subject: Re: Frustration FILETIME=[F44593C0:01C0B1A3] Just a note about the HF 7 X 10 mini lathe-I was told it was on backorder yesterday when I called to check on it-sorry some of you but I ordered before all the discussion about service from HF. There was some confusion on when it would be filled so i tried again today with their on-line help. Got right through and the help was great. They said it would be backordered Grizzley (checked first to see if it was in stock). I have part of my HF order coming (lathe tool kit) and it should fit the Griz lathe, so I will report back to the list if interested on how it all turns out (soon to be my favorite pun). Thanks to all who contributed to the thread (ok, too manypuns) on the mini lathe earlier, I appreciate all the comments-god and bad. Already have 3/4 inch aluminum and brass stock waiting for that baby to arrive!!! Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from bh887@lafn.org Tue Mar 20 19:30:42 2001 f2L1Ufe00938 forged)) Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Don't remember ever seeing the stuff in the finer grafdes like 0000. Maybeso, just I haven't seen it. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats ANybody done a workaround these problems using bronze wool (nosteel/iron,norust)? Wooden boat folks find it works perfectly (don't know about theoil).dws. Tony Spezio wrote: Ray,I run a strong magnet over the rod after steel wooling it. It gets allthe finewool particles from around the guides. I have had better finishes with0000steel wool than with 2000 paper. I make sure the steel wool is a no oilwool.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish betweencoatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack clothafterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message --- --From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:33 AMSubject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 20 19:59:57 2001 f2L1xve01654 Subject: marble slabs rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,I was talking to the cabinet guy at work today and he told me he has some small pieces of marble that are used for backsplashes of counter tops thathe will give me if I want. If anyone in my area is interested in one of these let me know. They are great for scary sharp blade sharpening and for truing up plane soles, a real nice hard flat surface on these. Oh yeh and I even use one of mine for rolling out my blanks.Bret from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 20:36:35 2001 f2L2aYe02592 Subject: Re: Frustration I have the Griz 7 x 12, and am currently experiencing a binding issue.Finally traced it to the shaft the pinion gear rides on - it is bent downand left about 10 dgrees. Caleed them and they are supposed to be sendingreplacement parts. Several listers suggested I check out the 7 x 10 mini lathe list and VarmintAl's home page. Both are great resources and you should look them up if youhaven't. It really demistifies the worings of the lathe and gives you asense that these things aren't as confusing as I try to make it. Brian from ctn45555@centurytel.net Tue Mar 20 21:03:35 2001 f2L33Ye03302 f2L33MK02471 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Man-O-War Getting ready to put finish on my first rod. I would like to useMan-O-War gloss marine spar (nothing else available locally). There hasbeen some disussion as to whether or not the new formulation is a goodfinish. What is the concencus (if there is one)? If I use it, should itbe thinned, if so by approximately how much? I could contact themanufacturer for this latter question, but I'd rather here from thevoices of experience. Thanks in advance for the help, Chad S. Boyd from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Mar 20 21:12:57 2001 f2L3Cue03707 Subject: Re: marble slabs Another good use is for mixing up epoxy on. Cleans up easy with eithervinegaror rubbing alcohol, and if you're slow, a razor or an old plane blade scrapes itclean with not much effort. mac Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,I was talking to the cabinet guy at work today and he told me he hassomesmall pieces of marble that are used for backsplashes of counter topsthat hewill give me if I want. If anyone in my area is interested in one of theselet me know. They are great for scary sharp blade sharpening and fortruingup plane soles, a real nice hard flat surface on these. Oh yeh and I evenuse one of mine for rolling out my blanks.Bret from channer@frontier.net Tue Mar 20 21:20:23 2001 f2L3KMe03970 Subject: Re: lie-nielsen planes Matthew;IMHO, it's well worth it. You set your blade just a hair above the form,this way the blade never touches the form and stay's sharp much longer.You do need to re-adjust the form to allow for the height of the blade.John DragonflyMAE@aol.com wrote: I'm wondering about the rod makers groove cut into the bottom of thelowangle adjustable mouth block plane. Is it supose to make the finalplaningeaser and is it worth the extra investment? Or should I ask; why itit worththe extra investment? Thanks Matthew from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Mar 20 22:39:32 2001 f2L4dRe05649 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats In a message dated 3/20/01 5:00:04 PM Central Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. Save Big money!!! "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 23:00:21 2001 f2L50Ke06190 Subject: Re: Man-O-War I called the company and talked to a tech rep about the product and how thenew formulation had changed it. They told me that it was lower in VOC's tocomply with clean air standards and they couldn't recommend thinning. Itold him I was putting it on fly rods and he said," Oh, this is for craftuse?" and I, sensing weakness said, "Yes!" He then said, "Well, in thatcase, just thin it with mineral spirits and it'll work just like the oldstuff." I thanked him and hung up, went down to the cave and tried it.Seems to me to work just fine. Thin it with mineral spirits until it works Brian from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Mar 20 23:26:52 2001 f2L5Qqe06894 Subject: Re: Man-O-War --part1_be.1191b8f4.27e99590_boundary In a message dated 3/20/2001 7:04:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, ctn45555@centurytel.net writes: Getting ready to put finish on my first rod. I would like to useMan-O-War gloss marine spar (nothing else available locally). There hasbeen some disussion as to whether or not the new formulation is a goodfinish. What is the concencus (if there is one)? If I use it, should itbe thinned, if so by approximately how much? I could contact themanufacturer for this latter question, but I'd rather here from thevoices of experience. Thanks in advance for the help, Chad, I had a bad experience with "new" Man O' War out of the can. It left a really poor finish on a rod. I think Brian's suggestion of thinning would do the trick, but I dumped mine and scrounged around old dinky hardware storesuntil I found a couple of quarts of the "old" formulation. I have been corrected several times on calling this the "old" formulation as it has been changed several times over the last couple of decades for the same reasons of lowering VOC's. Anyway the "last old" formulation did the trick for me. If you try adding thinners, let us know how it works for you. Mike --part1_be.1191b8f4.27e99590_boundary In a message dated3/20/2001 7:04:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, ctn45555@centurytel.net writes: Getting ready toput finish on my first rod. I would like to useMan-O-War gloss marine spar (nothing else available locally). There hasbeen some disussion as to whether or not the new formulation is a goodfinish. What is the concencus (if there is one)? If I use it, should itbe thinned, if so by approximately how much? I could contact themanufacturer for this latter question, but I'd rather here from thevoices of experience. Thanks in advance for the help, Chad S. Boyd Chad, I had a bad experience with "new" Man O' War out of the can. It left areally poor finish on a rod. I think Brian's suggestion of thinning would do the trick, but I dumped mine and scrounged around old dinky hardwarestores until I found a couple of quarts of the "old" formulation. I have been corrected several times on calling this the "old" formulationas it has been changed several times over the last couple of decades forthe same reasons of lowering VOC's. Anyway the "last old" formulation did the trick for me. If you try adding thinners, let us know how it works for you. Mike --part1_be.1191b8f4.27e99590_boundary-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Mar 21 03:47:28 2001 f2L9lRe10720 f2L9lK045894; Subject: Re: dip motors Yep! "The Shawshank Whatchamacallit" sure was the name of that moviewherethe hero dug extremely impressive holes with extremely unlikely tools! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: dip motors Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream inHawaii is somewhat difficult. . . Anyway, to make digging somewhat easier through the basement, I onlydrilleda 3/4 inch hole through my basement concrete with a masonry drillbit.Then Iused a 3/4 copper tube scrap and duct taped the end to my shop vac. Asyouram the copper tube into the ground the dirt will be sucked up into thevac.I step up my dip tube to a larger diameter, but only a 3/4 pipe ends upbeingbelow the basement floor. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 07:00:28 2001 f2LD0Re12375 2001 05:00:30 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Dave, I'll give it a try. Sounds like the way to avoidthe metal and oil problem completely. Thanks,Bill W.--- Dave Norling wrote:don't use steel wool Use the grey colored 3-M scotchbrite. Steel wool hasoil in it to keep it from rusting. Once you try the3-M stuf you'll neverreturn to steel wool----- Original Message-----From: Bill Walters rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:15 AMSubject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Jerry, you wouldn't believe the diversity of theanswers I'm getting but at least a few people havementioned using a technique very similiar to yours.Doyou sand or do you use 0000 steel wool? Harry Boydsent me an article that Russ Gooding wrote, whereheuses 0000 steel wool. Key seems to be applying thevarnish thinly and evenly and to start sanding (orisit wooling?) once the coats start getting smooth. Iused the thin plastic end of a very finepaintbrush,much in the same way you mention you use a knittingneedle, for at least the first coat. Used the brushitself on the second coat because the fine tipwouldpick up too much varnish and would make it a buggertospread. Knitting needle may be easier to use but Iwonder if it doesn't take forever to apply a thincoatthat way. Anyway, I'm getting some real good adviceand really appreciate your getting back to me. Bill Walters--- Jerry Young wrote:Bill - I always apply about four coats to thewrapsbefore doing anysanding. Sometimes a total of 9 or 10 coats ofslightly thinned, warmpoly on the wraps applied with a knitting needletoavoid bubbles. Regards, Jerry Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 09:54:10 2001 f2LFs9e17844 2001 07:54:12 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats dave, what did you like best about the 3m vs the wool?my hesitation with the 3m is that it wold remove morequicker. i am concerned about the corners of my stick.what can your experience tell me? timothy --- Bill Walters wrote:Dave, I'll give it a try. Sounds like the way toavoidthe metal and oil problem completely. Thanks,Bill W.--- Dave Norling wrote:don't use steel wool Use the grey colored 3-Mscotchbrite. Steel wool hasoil in it to keep it from rusting. Once you trythe3-M stuf you'll neverreturn to steel wool----- Original Message-----From: Bill Walters rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:15 AMSubject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Jerry, you wouldn't believe the diversity of theanswers I'm getting but at least a few peoplehavementioned using a technique very similiar toyours.Doyou sand or do you use 0000 steel wool? HarryBoydsent me an article that Russ Gooding wrote, whereheuses 0000 steel wool. Key seems to be applyingthevarnish thinly and evenly and to start sanding(orisit wooling?) once the coats start getting smooth.Iused the thin plastic end of a very finepaintbrush,much in the same way you mention you use aknittingneedle, for at least the first coat. Used thebrushitself on the second coat because the fine tipwouldpick up too much varnish and would make it abuggertospread. Knitting needle may be easier to use butIwonder if it doesn't take forever to apply a thincoatthat way. Anyway, I'm getting some real goodadviceand really appreciate your getting back to me. Bill Walters--- Jerry Young wrote:Bill - I always apply about four coats to thewrapsbefore doing anysanding. Sometimes a total of 9 or 10 coats ofslightly thinned, warmpoly on the wraps applied with a knittingneedletoavoid bubbles. Regards, Jerry Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Spico81@aol.com Wed Mar 21 15:30:59 2001 f2LLUxe01954 Subject: unsubscribe --part1_104.96379f.27ea7787_boundary unsubscribespico81@aol.com --part1_104.96379f.27ea7787_boundary unsubscribespico81@aol.com --part1_104.96379f.27ea7787_boundary-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Mar 21 17:37:43 2001 f2LNbfe06446 +0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: testing, please ignore from jojo@ipa.net Wed Mar 21 18:42:36 2001 f2M0gZe08022 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, in speech,orprose. You guys never can get it right, and it causes no end ofconsternation. If you could just get it down correctly no one would notice,or care. Say, have you seen the New Jersey version of Windows, Windows NJ?[ Thanks Art! ;o) ] M-D Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Corrected phonics:Hyl, we-yn got nuna them hÄern Arkunsaw. We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 21 18:45:47 2001 f2M0jle08222 Subject: Test - all Quiet!! Sorry. Am I bumped? from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Mar 21 19:18:38 2001 f2M1Ibe09147 0600 Subject: Re: sanding betwees now Grammer JoJo,Thanks for the grammar lesson. Youse guys from don here can teach us noojoiseybois sumpton. Hay you guys from N.J. this is all in jest.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, in speech,orprose. You guys never can get it right, and it causes no end ofconsternation. If you could just get it down correctly no one would notice,or care. Say, have you seen the New Jersey version of Windows, WindowsNJ?[ Thanks Art! ;o) ] M-D Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Corrected phonics:Hyl, we-yn got nuna them hÄern Arkunsaw. From: "Tony Spezio" We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 21 19:49:28 2001 f2M1nSe09845 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Test - all Quiet!! I think everyone's just quiet today... strange for this crowd! *S* Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Test - all Quiet!! Sorry. Am I bumped? from cdn@ticon.net Wed Mar 21 20:35:56 2001 f2M2Zue10980 0000 (216.145.217.254) Subject: Hello! Hi list members. I've been a subscriber of the list for about a yearnow, and have beenbuilding planning forms, a binder, preliminary beveler etc,etc,etc. Tothe other newbiesI can highly recommend Tom Penroses method with the addition of thecarbide 60 degreethreading tool in a steel block method of roughing the groove-saves aLOT of time.I groovedthe sole of both my veritas low angle plane and my home made scraperplane and it workswonders! A few days ago I attacked the first six strips of my"sacrificial culm" and they planed and scraped beautifullyand much to my amazement glued up perfectly!!! This was real gratifyingafter spendingwhat seemed like endless hours making all the pariphernalia of thiswonderfull craft/obsession! I stand on the shoulders of all you folks who give sogenerously to this listand hope I can reciprocate in the future. So to the other newbies on thelist I just wanted to saykeep pluggin away-the rewards are well worth the initial time and energyinvestment! Well anywayjust wanted to introduce myself and say howdy. RegardsNed GuyetteMilwaukee Wi. from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 21 20:44:38 2001 f2M2iZe11341 Subject: Re: Grammer Tony: HAY UNNGHH!!! (just wanted to let you know I learned more than Morse Code and pidginVietnamese while in the Army) Hope you're doing well. Ed (Southerner) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sanding betwees now Grammer JoJo,Thanks for the grammar lesson. Youse guys from don here can teach usnoojoiseybois sumpton. Hay you guys from N.J. this is all in jest.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, inspeech, orprose. You guys never can get it right, and it causes no end ofconsternation. If you could just get it down correctly no one wouldnotice,or care. Say, have you seen the New Jersey version of Windows, WindowsNJ?[ Thanks Art! ;o) ] M-D Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Corrected phonics:Hyl, we-yn got nuna them hÄern Arkunsaw. From: "Tony Spezio" We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Mar 21 20:47:28 2001 f2M2lNe11597 Subject: Re: Hello! Hi Ned,Sounds like your really getting into it. Keep at it. The rewards are many. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 20:52:18 2001 f2M2qIe11838 Subject: Re: Grammer --part1_6e.8c6a4fe.27eac2c4_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 6:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? since it's slow ... I thought me nards were my hangy downies?Mike --part1_6e.8c6a4fe.27eac2c4_boundary In a message dated3/21/2001 6:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: Brian, since it's slow ... I thought me nards were my hangy downies?Mike --part1_6e.8c6a4fe.27eac2c4_boundary-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 21 21:13:42 2001 f2M3Dge12429 Subject: Reelseat care Dave:A while back, I purchased one of your sliding band Ash Burl reel seats(mighty nice) and expect it to get scuffed with use. What do you recommendI do/use to keep it as new?TIAEd----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Hello! Hi Ned,Sounds like your really getting into it. Keep at it. Therewards are many.Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from cadams46@juno.com Wed Mar 21 21:46:05 2001 f2M3k4e13175 22:45:21 EST Subject: Re: Dip Motors Well thanks guys for all the suggestions. I looked at the options andpreferred a DIP to a DRIP system. And I think I'll stick with my 2' hole I don't know if this suggestion got posted to the list or not but if Iever did this again I think the idea where you dig the hole with waterpressure and a wet dry vac is a really good idea. My only concern ishere in Utah we have a dense layer of clay under our house. When you add water to clay it just gets softer but dosen't break upeasily. Thanks again.C.R. Adams from piscator@macatawa.org Wed Mar 21 22:27:09 2001 f2M4R4e14207 Subject: Re: Grammer This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B25F.09CDE6A0 AAARRRGGGHH! ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B25F.09CDE6A0 AAARRRGGGHH! ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B25F.09CDE6A0-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 22:31:22 2001 f2M4VLe14476 Subject: Re: Grammer rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_51.91d1083.27eada05_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:27:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, piscator@macatawa.org writes: AAARRRGGGHH! Ok! I'm so sorry, besides it was to be pronounced with an Austrialian accentMike ] 8^) --part1_51.91d1083.27eada05_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:27:49 PM PacificStandard Time, piscator@macatawa.org writes: AAARRRGGGHH! Ok! I'm so sorry, besides it was to be pronounced with an Austrialianaccent --part1_51.91d1083.27eada05_boundary-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 21 22:56:39 2001 f2M4ube15299 Subject: Re: Grammer rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'd need afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll getclose:-) Tony At 11:31 PM 3/21/01 -0500, Troutgetter@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:27:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, piscator@macatawa.org writes: AAARRRGGGHH! Ok! I'm so sorry, besides it was to be pronounced with an Austrialianaccent Mike ] 8^) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 23:13:07 2001 f2M5D6e15734 Subject: Re: Grammer --part1_5b.1388af6e.27eae3d8_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:57:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'd need afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll getclose:-) Tony,There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I will keep trying! :)Mike --part1_5b.1388af6e.27eae3d8_boundary In a message dated3/21/2001 8:57:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: There used tobe a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'd need afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll getclose:-) Tony,There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I will keep trying! :)Mike --part1_5b.1388af6e.27eae3d8_boundary-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 23:24:27 2001 f2M5OQe16125 Subject: Re: Grammer --part1_7e.128aa3ef.27eae680_boundary PS ...Tony,Just saw your "Driggs" for sale on e-bay. Very nice indeed.Mike --part1_7e.128aa3ef.27eae680_boundary PS ...Tony,Just saw your "Driggs" for sale on e-bay. Very nice indeed.Mike --part1_7e.128aa3ef.27eae680_boundary-- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Mar 21 23:35:51 2001 f2M5Zoe16515 VAA09867 Subject: waterlox tung oil finishes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B250.36E551A0 Hi everyone, I have come across http://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#Waterlox =Original Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly =rods. Any users of this out there? Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B250.36E551A0 Hi everyone, I have come across http://www.waterlo= Original Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly = users of this out there? Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B250.36E551A0-- from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Thu Mar 22 01:14:47 2001 f2M7Eje18602 0800 Subject: Digest Mode Could someone send me the command to get off digest mode and back torealtime. Please send directly to me instead of to the list. Ray from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Thu Mar 22 02:45:27 2001 f2M8jQe19709 Subject: History of FF in SLC I was able to get out of our training just in time to catch the exhibit inSalt Lake just before they closed at 5:30 today. I walked in at 5:00. Icould spend an afternoon studying that exhibit. The display of rods wasquite impressive. It is a good thing they are behind plexiglas, I would havebeen casting all of them! I especially enjoyed the short video of Garrisonmaking a rod. I noticed that most of the rods made around 1930 and priorhadintermediate wraps. Did they start using better glues after 1930? Thesecurity guard shut off the lights promptly at 5:30. It is just as well, Iwould have missed my plane if I had stayed any later. Thanks again towhoever posted the original announcement about this exhibit. Ray from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Mar 22 04:21:31 2001 f2MALUe21360 f2MALM065758; Subject: Re: Test - all Quiet!! Yeah, Bob - Martin's phonetic interpretation acts a bit like a neuronic whip! It'll be a few moments before folks get their cerebral cortices back. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Test - all Quiet!! I think everyone's just quiet today... strange for this crowd! *S* Bob -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 6:46 PMSubject: Test - all Quiet!! Sorry. Am I bumped? from caneman@clnk.com Thu Mar 22 04:30:47 2001 f2MAUge21566 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Grammer =_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0 At the rate I'm going lately, I should be fluent by Christmas!Bob There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie = frontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and = There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I = ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0 Christmas!Bob There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an = Aussie you'd need a frontal labotamy but I've never believed = Keep trying and you'll get close :-) Tony, = trying! :) Mike = ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Mar 22 04:32:10 2001 f2MAW9e21665 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: waterlox tung oil finishes --------------7C2086AD0B689347F2DF2FB4 Hi Adam, I use Waterlox but only as a sealer immediatly after thebinding cord and glue are removed. I put it on with my fingers as thinas possible. I see no reason why it could not be used as the finalfinish. Marty Adam Vigil wrote: Hi everyone, I have come acrosshttp://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#Waterlox Original Satin Finish, Inoticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly rods. Any users of thisout there? Adam --------------7C2086AD0B689347F2DF2FB4 Hi Adam, I use Waterlox but only as a sealer immediatly after the bindingcord and glue are removed. I put it on with my fingers as thin as possible.I see no reason why it could not be used as the final finish. MartyAdam Vigil wrote: Hi comeacross http://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#WaterloxOriginal Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly --------------7C2086AD0B689347F2DF2FB4-- from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Mar 22 04:41:21 2001 f2MAfKe22011 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: waterlox tung oil finishes --------------8CB8512F7BBCCD2E2DC653D0 Hi Adam, That is the first time I saw any varnish manufacturer recomendthere finish for bamboo fly rods. There has to be a Bamboo addictofficer at the company. Marty Adam Vigil wrote: Hi everyone, I have come acrosshttp://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#Waterlox Original Satin Finish, Inoticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly rods. Any users of thisout there? Adam --------------8CB8512F7BBCCD2E2DC653D0 Hi Adam, That is the first time I saw any varnish manufacturer recomendthere finish for bamboo fly rods. There has to be a Bamboo addict officerat the company. MartyAdam Vigil wrote: Hi comeacross http://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#WaterloxOriginal Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly --------------8CB8512F7BBCCD2E2DC653D0-- from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 22 06:37:19 2001 f2MCbIe23406 srv.alltel.net Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:37:18 -0600 Subject: Grammer Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, in speech,orprose. >Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Martin, I've been here in Arkansas for over 30 years now. I was only 26when I moved here. When we go back to Michigan, everybody there mentionsour Southern drawl. BTW that's Northern transplants if it Sothern Drawl.Dick Fuhrman from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Mar 22 06:45:32 2001 f2MCjWe23666 Subject: Re: waterlox tung oil finishes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0B2A4.85751F40 CSE sells the Waterlox original transparent as a traditional varnish for =bamboo rods. I've talked to their company about the varnish, and think =it will work well. I intend to try it as soon as my stash of old man o' =war runs out. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0B2A4.85751F40 CSE sells the Waterlox = as soon as my stash of old man o' war runs out. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0B2A4.85751F40-- from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Mar 22 06:45:42 2001 f2MCjee23731 Subject: Re: Grammer I can do it with a bottle infrontofme. from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Mar 22 07:03:53 2001 f2MD3qe24250 IAA17816; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: scary-shape question. A kind of "Car Talk" question for the list. I was recently told thatyou can tell when a plane knife/blade is REALLY sharp, because you willNO longer be able to see your reflection in it. Is this so and, sinceit seems counter intuitive, why?Thanks, dws. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Mar 22 07:37:17 2001 f2MDbGe25065 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats You can get it at Rocklers (aka the Woodworkers Store). Its abouta buck more than at Menards, tho.. $4 vs $3.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, timothy troester wrote: where do you get it? from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Mar 22 09:21:35 2001 f2MFLZe28281 Subject: (no subject) Does anyone have Jon Lintvet's current e-mail address? from robert.kope@prodigy.net Thu Mar 22 09:39:35 2001 f2MFdYe29060 f2MFdXF109204;Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:39:33 -0500 Subject: Re: scary-shape question. David, The advice you got has somehow been corrupted. When a blade is reallysharpyou will no longer be able to see the edge, not your reflection. If youlook the edge of a dull plade, you will be able to see it because it haswidth and the surface of the edge reflects light. When you have a reallysharp edge, it has no width and thus, cannot reflect light. In order toachieve the sharpest edge both surfaces of the edge (the back of the plane,and the bevel) should be polished to a mirror finish. So you should be ableto see your reflection in the back of the blade and the bevel should reflectlight like a mirror. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: scary-shape question. A kind of "Car Talk" question for the list. I was recently told thatyou can tell when a plane knife/blade is REALLY sharp, because you willNO longer be able to see your reflection in it. Is this so and, sinceit seems counter intuitive, why?Thanks, dws. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Mar 22 09:56:52 2001 f2MFupe29896 HAA21234; Subject: lintvets email Try this sales@munrorodco.com and here is his tel# (804) 340-1848 Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: (no subject) Does anyone have Jon Lintvet's current e-mail address? from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 22 10:47:41 2001 f2MGlde02183 Subject: Re: Grammer Just remember :I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotamy but in yourcase just be careful, go too far and you'll sound like a Kiwi :-) Tony At 04:26 AM 3/22/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: At the rate I'm going lately, I should be fluent by Christmas!Bob There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'dneed a frontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll get close :-) Tony, There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I will keep trying! :) Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 22 11:19:01 2001 f2MHJ0e03929 Subject: Dip tank. Much as I really hate to mention something rod making related I thought I'dshare this in case someone is interested.In keeping with the tried and true tradition of making a hugely complictedmess of a simple project I've been messing about for the last month or sousing stepper motors from old 5.25" floppy drives to use as the winder formy new dip tank. Trouble with stepper motors is interfacing the motor tothe PC and messing about with code to make it run. I know there are other ways but I have a few old PC laying around I'mtrying to find uses for. I got one happening then I decided it would benice to make a worm drive that lays the wound line evenly along a cylinderin the same manner of a level wind overhead reel.This had a setup where the worm gear and line control was directly driven coming from the worm gear. I geared it so the cylinder was driven at abouttwice the speed the worm drive ran at. I was just about to put this little engineering marvel togeter permanentlywhen it dawned on me I could dispence with all that nonsence and use asmall toy gear box with a 3v motor I got a while back to use a s a rod turner for a g!@#$%^e rodthat I geared to to something like 300:1 sort of speed.Because it's such a low gear you get the best of both worlds because even asmall 3v motor will easily lift a rod section and the extraction speed is low. To wind the line in an even manner all you need to do is drill to fit whatwe call Booker thread or all thread to accept the drive shaft of the toygearbox and solder it so it turns with the drive shaft. Press a bearing onthe other end of the threaded rod, mount the bearing, tie on the string andswitch her on.As the threaded rod turns the line lays in the thread therefor theextraction speed remains constant. The rod only neds to be 3/8" dia andabout 15" long.I could work it out mathmaticaly exactly what length of rod to use but thatwould complicate things again :-) Doing this you get an extraction motor setup for about $25 Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Mar 22 11:21:24 2001 f2MHLNe04182 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Grammer Cheers, I'll drink to that! Darrell -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Grammer Just remember :I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotamy but in yourcase just be careful, go too far and you'll sound like a Kiwi :-) Tony At 04:26 AM 3/22/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: At the rate I'm going lately, I should be fluent by Christmas!Bob There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'dneed afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'llgetclose:-) Tony,There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I will keeptrying! :)Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Mar 22 12:10:44 2001 f2MIAhe06495 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Dip tank. Another candidate for the Rube Goldberg Bamboo Fly Rod Maker Award... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Dip tank. Much as I really hate to mention something rod making related I thought I'dshare this in case someone is interested.In keeping with the tried and true tradition of making a hugely complictedmess of a simple project I've been messing about for the last month or sousing stepper motors from old 5.25" floppy drives to use as the winder formy new dip tank. Trouble with stepper motors is interfacing the motor tothe PC and messing about with code to make it run.I know there are other ways but I have a few old PC laying around I'mtrying to find uses for. I got one happening then I decided it would benice to make a worm drive that lays the wound line evenly along a cylinderin the same manner of a level wind overhead reel.This had a setup where the worm gear and line control was directly driven coming from the worm gear. I geared it so the cylinder was driven at abouttwice the speed the worm drive ran at. I was just about to put this little engineering marvel togeter permanentlywhen it dawned on me I could dispence with all that nonsence and use asmall toy gear box witha 3v motor I got a while back to use a s a rod turner for a g!@#$%^e rodthat I geared to to something like 300:1 sort of speed.Because it's such a low gear you get the best of both worlds because even asmall 3v motor will easily lift a rod section and the extraction speed islow. To wind the line in an even manner all you need to do is drill to fit whatwe call Booker thread or all thread to accept the drive shaft of the toygearbox and solder it so it turns with the drive shaft. Press a bearing onthe other end of the threaded rod, mount the bearing, tie on the string andswitch her on.As the threaded rod turns the line lays in the thread therefor theextraction speed remains constant. The rod only neds to be 3/8" dia andabout 15" long.I could work it out mathmaticaly exactly what length of rod to use but thatwould complicate things again :-) Doing this you get an extraction motor setup for about $25 Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Mar 22 12:50:56 2001 f2MIote08272 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Nickel silver source for reel seats This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B2D6.F3498100 Its been several years since I've been on the list. I'm looking for a =source of Nickel silver for reel seats. I'm thinking of 7/8" rod. All =I've been able to find is 12' lengths at a goodly sum of $$$. Also, has =anyone tried alternatives to Nickle silver. I've seen aluminum, but I'm =not sure what grades are suitable and does it need to anodized etc. I'm =no metalurgist and could use some help. I appreciate any replies. Thanks Tom Ausfeld p.s. Richard Tyree, are you still out there??? ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B2D6.F3498100 Hello, Its been several years since I've been on the = aluminum, but I'm not sure what grades are suitable and does it need to = replies. Thanks Tom Ausfeld p.s. Richard Tyree, are you still out =there??? ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B2D6.F3498100-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 22 13:01:01 2001 f2MJ10e08789 Subject: Re: Nickel silver source for reel seats I've done reel seats in aluminum, brass, nickle silver and phosphor bronze. Aluminum is light but the anodizing wasn't as controllable on a one at a timeas I would like. It is lighter but really needs to be anodized. Both brass andphosphor bronze produce nice reel seats and turn well. The phosphor bronzeis really nice looking. It has a pinkish hue to it. Brass and phosphor bronze inshort lengths can be bought from Small Parts (www.smallparts.com) ormetal mart. For nickle silver, I bit the bullet and bought 12' lengths. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com tausfeld@frontiernet.net wrote: Hello, Its been several years since I've been on the list. I'm looking for a source of Nickel silver for reel seats. I'm thinking of 7/8" rod. All I've been able to find is 12' lengths at a goodly sum of $$$. Also, has anyone tried alternatives to Nickle silver. I've seen aluminum, but I'm not sure what grades are suitable and does it need toanodized etc. I'm no metalurgist and could use some help. I appreciate any replies. Thanks Tom Ausfeld p.s. Richard Tyree, are you still out there??? from canazon@mindspring.com Thu Mar 22 13:25:18 2001 f2MJPHe09974 Subject: kids rod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0B2DB.282D1900 i know this post has been covered already but i can't find anything in =the archives. i want to make a sir d for my kids but i am not sure if i =should use the 7 foot 4 wt or the 6'3". i am also wondering if it is the =6'3" rod do i add .002 to the first 3 stations or is that only the 7 = mike c ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0B2DB.282D1900 all, = find anything in the archives. i want to make a sir d for my kids but i = sure if i should use the 7 foot 4 wt or the 6'3". i am also wondering if = the 6'3" rod do i add .002 to the first 3 stations or is that only the 7 = c ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0B2DB.282D1900-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Mar 22 13:35:12 2001 f2MJZBe10535 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:34:51 -0800 Subject: Re: kids rod f2MJZCe10536 I can't help with the particular taper you mention, but I would suggest that alonger rod is easier for a child, so I would go with the 7'. This is just based onwatching my own children. Beginners tend to have a slower casting strokeand a longer rod, particularly bamboo, is a good choice for a child. This isjust my opinion, I'm no casting expert. Chris "mike canazon" 03/22/01 12:19PM >>>all, i know this post has been covered already but i can't find anything in thearchives. i want to make a sir d for my kids but i am not sure if i should usethe 7 foot 4 wt or the 6'3". i am also wondering if it is the 6'3" rod do i add.002 to the first 3 stations or is that only the 7 footer. mike c from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Mar 22 13:54:45 2001 f2MJsie11599 hme0.telusplanet.net Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:54:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Nickel silver source for reel seats Tom, In aluminum try 7075 - polishes like sterling and needs no anodizing. Try some of the knife makers on the Web - usually you can get shortlength of Ni-silver without trouble. At 01:49 PM 3/22/01 -0500, Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Hello, Its been several years since I've been on the list. I'm looking All I've been able to find is 12' lengths at a goodly sum of $$$. Also,has anyone tried alternatives to Nickle silver. I've seen aluminum, butI'm not sure what grades are suitable and does it need to anodized etc. I'm no metalurgist and could use some help. I appreciate any replies. Thanks Tom Ausfeld p.s. Richard Tyree, are you still out there??? from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Mar 22 14:04:48 2001 f2MK4me12130 Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:04:44 -0800 Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:04:42 -0800 Subject: Re: Dip tank. FILETIME=[565C5E00:01C0B30B] Good grief, This gets my vote for the "Better Mouse Trap Award". Tony, I am trulyimpressed. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:20 AMSubject: Dip tank. Much as I really hate to mention something rod making related I thoughtI'dshare this in case someone is interested.In keeping with the tried and true tradition of making a hugely complictedmess of a simple project I've been messing about for the last month or sousing stepper motors from old 5.25" floppy drives to use as the winder formy new dip tank. Trouble with stepper motors is interfacing the motor tothe PC and messing about with code to make it run.I know there are other ways but I have a few old PC laying around I'mtrying to find uses for. I got one happening then I decided it would benice to make a worm drive that lays the wound line evenly along a cylinderin the same manner of a level wind overhead reel.This had a setup where the worm gear and line control was directly driven coming from the worm gear. I geared it so the cylinder was driven at abouttwice the speed the worm drive ran at. I was just about to put this little engineering marvel togeter permanentlywhen it dawned on me I could dispence with all that nonsence and use asmall toy gear box witha 3v motor I got a while back to use a s a rod turner for a g!@#$%^e rodthat I geared to to something like 300:1 sort of speed.Because it's such a low gear you get the best of both worlds because evenasmall 3v motor will easily lift a rod section and the extraction speed islow. To wind the line in an even manner all you need to do is drill to fit whatwe call Booker thread or all thread to accept the drive shaft of the toygearbox and solder it so it turns with the drive shaft. Press a bearing onthe other end of the threaded rod, mount the bearing, tie on the stringandswitch her on.As the threaded rod turns the line lays in the thread therefor theextraction speed remains constant. The rod only neds to be 3/8" dia andabout 15" long.I could work it out mathmaticaly exactly what length of rod to use butthatwould complicate things again :-) Doing this you get an extraction motor setup for about $25 Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Mar 22 14:40:45 2001 f2MKeie13704 net.com [204.253.245.125] (may be forged)) Subject: RE: kids rod My particular experience with teaching kids shows that the line weight ismore important that the rod length (to a point, of course). If you have ayoung child, say under 7 years old, muscular strength is a major issue.Proper form is difficult to achieve if the strength required is close to thechild's physical limits. I have a rough rule of thumb something like this: 7 and under, use a 3 weight rod with a WF3 line8 to 12, use a 5 weight rod and WF5 lineteenagers and petite women, use a 6 weight rod with a 6 Windcutter or WF7larger adults, use an 8 weight rod with a #8 Windcutter or WF9 All of these rods would be considered medium or medium slow. My theory isthat most beginners have difficulty feeling the loading as they should;therefore, we should use attempt to make the loading as obvious as possiblewithout causing other problems (fatigue, tailing loops). I've concludedthat the stature and anticipated strength of each student should determinethe combination of rod and line to be used. Disclaimers -- To be fair, I have done most of my teaching with graphite.I believe that it is harder to feel the loading and establish proper timingand stroke with a graphite rod than with either glass or cane. This is whyit takes a little forethought about what rod and line to use for eachstudent with graphite. Further, the age breaks and specific line weightsare not hard and fast by any means. I'm using these as points of reference. What I will say is that I will not take a beginning six year old and givehim an 8 weight rod to start out with (he'd feel the load, alright....)Just as I will not give a 2 weight to a 300 pound man. I need to have thestudent feel the load, but not to the point where they are tired in threeminutes. Muscles must have enough reserve in them to benefit frommemorization through repetition. Then again, I could be wrong...... : ) TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: kids rod I can't help with the particular taper you mention, but I would suggest thata longer rod is easier for a child, so I would go with the 7'. This is justbased on watching my own children. Beginners tend to have a slower castingstroke and a longer rod, particularly bamboo, is a good choice for a child.This is just my opinion, I'm no casting expert. Chris "mike canazon" 03/22/01 12:19PM >>>all, i know this post has been covered already but i can't find anything in thearchives. i want to make a sir d for my kids but i am not sure if i shoulduse the 7 foot 4 wt or the 6'3". i am also wondering if it is the 6'3" roddo i add .002 to the first 3 stations or is that only the 7 footer. mike c from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 22 15:22:52 2001 f2MLMqe15599 Subject: Re: Dip tank. Tony;Too much homebrew again, eh?John Tony Young wrote: Much as I really hate to mention something rod making related I thought I'dshare this in case someone is interested.In keeping with the tried and true tradition of making a hugely complictedmess of a simple project I've been messing about for the last month or sousing stepper motors from old 5.25" floppy drives to use as the winder formy new dip tank. Trouble with stepper motors is interfacing the motor tothe PC and messing about with code to make it run.I know there are other ways but I have a few old PC laying around I'mtrying to find uses for. I got one happening then I decided it would benice to make a worm drive that lays the wound line evenly along a cylinderin the same manner of a level wind overhead reel.This had a setup where the worm gear and line control was directly driven coming from the worm gear. I geared it so the cylinder was driven at abouttwice the speed the worm drive ran at. I was just about to put this little engineering marvel togeter permanentlywhen it dawned on me I could dispence with all that nonsence and use asmall toy gear box witha 3v motor I got a while back to use a s a rod turner for a g!@#$%^e rodthat I geared to to something like 300:1 sort of speed.Because it's such a low gear you get the best of both worlds because evenasmall 3v motor will easily lift a rod section and the extraction speed is low. To wind the line in an even manner all you need to do is drill to fit whatwe call Booker thread or all thread to accept the drive shaft of the toygearbox and solder it so it turns with the drive shaft. Press a bearing onthe other end of the threaded rod, mount the bearing, tie on the string andswitch her on.As the threaded rod turns the line lays in the thread therefor theextraction speed remains constant. The rod only neds to be 3/8" dia andabout 15" long.I could work it out mathmaticaly exactly what length of rod to use but thatwould complicate things again :-) Doing this you get an extraction motor setup for about $25 Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 15:30:02 2001 f2MLU1e16031 2001 13:30:02 PST Subject: fishing is there anyone on the list from the northern islandof nz? please contact me. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Mar 22 18:48:59 2001 f2N0mwe21968 Subject: Re: Grammer rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 3/21/01 10:57:25 PM Central Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Nawwwww, just several pints of Guiness will do it! "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Mar 22 19:11:02 2001 f2N1B1e22489 Subject: Re: Nickel silver source for reel seats In a message dated 3/22/1 6:51:54 PM, tausfeld@frontiernet.net writes: Why not use tubing? If you buy rod, most of what you paid for is going to end up as scrap. Dave LeClair used to sell the tubing in small quantity at reasonable prices. There are probably other sources as well. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Mar 22 20:44:12 2001 f2N2iBe24345 Subject: Mir Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from briansr@point-net.com Thu Mar 22 20:52:35 2001 f2N2qYe24681 Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:54:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Mir LOL !!!!Good one Bret Had a chance 2 weeks ago to watch Mir go by from the towerCheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mir Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from Troutgetter@aol.com Thu Mar 22 21:33:49 2001 f2N3Xne25840 Subject: Re: Nickel silver source for reel seats rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_db.11f5c76c.27ec1e0d_boundary In a message dated 3/22/2001 5:11:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, TSmithwick@aol.com writes: Why not use tubing? If you buy rod, most of what you paid for is going to end up as scrap. Dave LeClair used to sell the tubing in small quantity at reasonable prices. There are probably other sources as well. I was on Robert Venneri's Web site last night and he also sells smallquantities of NS bar and tubinge-mail is rvenneri@ulster.netMike --part1_db.11f5c76c.27ec1e0d_boundary In a message dated3/22/2001 5:11:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, TSmithwick@aol.com writes: Why not usetubing? If you buy rod, most of what you paid for is going to end up as scrap. Dave LeClair used to sell the tubing in small quantity at reasonable prices. There are probably other sources as well. I was on Robert Venneri's Web site last night and he also sells small quantities of NS bar and tubinge-mail is rvenneri@ulster.netMike --part1_db.11f5c76c.27ec1e0d_boundary-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Mar 22 22:22:22 2001 f2N4MMe26856 Subject: Fw: Mir YOU TOO IAN!!!!! Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mir Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Mar 22 22:29:50 2001 f2N4Tme27111 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:18:07 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) caneman@clnk.com Subject: RE: Mir I thought the big bang and the glow on the horizon was just Tony firing upthat damned oven of his : )Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Mir Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from saweiss@flash.net Thu Mar 22 22:31:44 2001 f2N4Vde27289 f2N4Vcg201004 Subject: Re: Grammer "lobotomy."Steve Just remember :I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotamy but inyourcase just be careful, go too far and you'll sound like a Kiwi :-) There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'dneed afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'llgetclose:-) from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Mar 22 23:30:55 2001 f2N5Ure28670 f2N5Un051523; Subject: Re: fishing Baaa Baa,Baa aa aaa aa! Baa baa! Baaaaa! Baaa ----- Original Message ----- Subject: fishing is there anyone on the list from the northern islandof nz? please contact me. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 00:15:47 2001 f2N6Fje29746 Subject: Re: Mir Peter in Tasmania better look out and Ian's right in the firing line but aslong as the Ruskies can drive the thing better than they can make a paperbag we're ok here in Western Australia and hopefuly unless they score abulls eye on some unsuspecting yacht in the Pacific everywhere else.Actualy, now I think about it, NASA droped Sky Lab on us here in WesternAustralia a few years ago. We're setting up a satalite launch facility herethat should be opperational in a few years. Maybe we can return the favoursome day :-) Tony At 09:43 PM 3/22/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 00:15:47 2001 f2N6Fje29747 Subject: RE: Mir caneman@clnk.com, Troutgetter@aol.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu That would only happen if I stuck my finger in the wrong place :-) At 12:11 PM 3/23/01 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote:I thought the big bang and the glow on the horizon was just Tony firing upthat damned oven of his : )Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 23 March 2001 10:44 Cc: Troutgetter@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Mir Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from stuart.rod@gmx.de Fri Mar 23 01:37:23 2001 f2N7bMe01243 Subject: Scraper blade angle Hi everybody, I have a Lie Nielsen scraper plane and was wondering what angle otherusers were sharpening their blades at. Thanks Stuart from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Mar 23 01:53:14 2001 f2N7rDe01589 Subject: Re: Scraper blade angle The blade comes with a very blunt (near 90) and is intended to be used witha rolled burr - The recommendation is to change this angle to that of theplane blade (30) - and not to use a burr - BUT this means removing somemetal - and if a sharpening stone is use it is time consuming - an option isto use a bench grinder - BUT caution is needed not to anneal (remove thetemper) the blade - the action is this - have a cup of water at hand -adjust the rest so that it hold the blade at the proper angle - then grindjust a bit - quickly quenching the blade in the water to hold the temper -repeat the grind - quench sequence until the angle is reshapped to the pointof the blade - and then stone sharpen as if it were a plane blade - a lastword of caution - as the blade begins to come to a point quench more oftenthat lesser mass can heat quicker - hey - Good luck - i have done thisperhaps 10 - 15 times - and Again this is one of those - Needed one timeonly things from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Mar 23 04:27:54 2001 f2NARqe03733 f2NARm075149; Subject: Re: Mir Da! Dos vadanya! Piotr----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mir Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Mar 23 04:37:16 2001 f2NAbEe03948 f2NAbC075722; Subject: Re: Mir Yeah, Tony, the Skylab thing actually had occurred to me. In fact, theRussians executed ( a word which still probably makes their neck hairs goall prickly ) a letter-perfect re-entry manoeuvre. DOES sort of make one just think for a few moments about things like theBlack Sea Fleet, with all those unpaid sailors and a very cashed-up MiddleEast just a short bike ride away, doesn't it? Now try and get a night's sleep Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Mir Peter in Tasmania better look out and Ian's right in the firing line butaslong as the Ruskies can drive the thing better than they can make a paperbag we're ok here in Western Australia and hopefuly unless they score abulls eye on some unsuspecting yacht in the Pacific everywhere else.Actualy, now I think about it, NASA droped Sky Lab on us here in WesternAustralia a few years ago. We're setting up a satalite launch facilityherethat should be opperational in a few years. Maybe we can return the favoursome day :-) Tony At 09:43 PM 3/22/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 06:16:22 2001 f2NCGLe05012 Subject: Re: Mir The fleet and all that oil money certainly is the stuff night mares aremade of. I'm just glad our very near neibours in the North are too broke tobuy in.In fact just on the subject there is an ex Indonesian navy patrol boat thathas been converted into a "pleasure yacht" that is moored at Hillary'sHarbour just down from me that the word is belongs to Tommy Suharto whowants it out of Indonesia's waters so it doesn't get impounded. I thinkbefore the penny droped as it were there they were buying a lot of Russianand US gear and giving most of it all the robber barron generals so theycould better keep the locals under control so all the shoe and clothingmakers could make obscene licks of money unmolested. Looks as if they'renow selling it to the highest bidder (in the Suharto's case lowest bidder).If it is Tommy's he'll have something to dream about while he whiles awaythe hrs in goal if they ever get him there. Do you know anybody in the UK doing work on this Foot & Mouth and BSEproblem?I was reading BSE isn't a bacteria or virus but is in fact a selfreplicating protien. Is that right? How common is that? Tony At 09:36 PM 3/23/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote:Yeah, Tony, the Skylab thing actually had occurred to me. In fact, theRussians executed ( a word which still probably makes their neck hairs goall prickly ) a letter-perfect re- entry manoeuvre. DOES sort of make one just think for a few moments about things like theBlack Sea Fleet, with all those unpaid sailors and a very cashed-up MiddleEast just a short bike ride away, doesn't it? Now try and get a night's sleep Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 4:54 PMSubject: Re: Mir Peter in Tasmania better look out and Ian's right in the firing line butaslong as the Ruskies can drive the thing better than they can make a paperbag we're ok here in Western Australia and hopefuly unless they score abulls eye on some unsuspecting yacht in the Pacific everywhere else.Actualy, now I think about it, NASA droped Sky Lab on us here in WesternAustralia a few years ago. We're setting up a satalite launch facilityherethat should be opperational in a few years. Maybe we can return thefavoursome day :-) Tony At 09:43 PM 3/22/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Tony, Mike and Peter,DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!Bret /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 06:18:34 2001 f2NCIWe05161 Subject: Sorry, uninted posting Sorry guys, this wasn't intended for the list. It sort of escaped. Tony The fleet and all that oil money certainly is the stuff night mares aremade of. I'm just glad our very near neibours in the North are too broke tobuy in.In fact just on the subject there is an ex Indonesian navy patrol boatthat has been converted into a "pleasure yacht" that is moored at Hillary'sHarbour just down from me that the word is belongs to Tommy Suharto whowants it out of Indonesia's waters so it doesn't get impounded. I thinkbefore the penny droped as it were there they were /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 06:30:02 2001 f2NCU0e05456 Subject: Re: Grammer I've had a couple of people draw my attention to a rod I made that is beingsold on ebay.It just occurred to me that if anybody has seen this item on ebay it may looklike I'm selling it. I'm not but a bloke who wheels and deals a bit bought itand is now selling it.I just thought I'd mention this because the description of the maker is a bitbeyond anything I'd write.The item isn't worth finding the list of IMHO but this message is justintended wasselling the rod and writing my own spiel. Tony PS ... Tony, Just saw your "Driggs" for sale on e-bay. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from canazon@mindspring.com Fri Mar 23 07:50:20 2001 f2NDoJe06782 Subject: re: kids rod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0B376.40FFE980 allthanks for your input. i wasn't sure if the sir d had been modified = mike c ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0B376.40FFE980 all sir d had been modified for a 6'3" length for kids. i will go with the 7 = footer. mike c ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0B376.40FFE980-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 23 08:38:22 2001 f2NEcLe08656 Subject: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod All,Back to my role as defender of the free world, here. Itbugs me that the Sir D taper has acquired a life of its own,apart from it's original developer. The guru behind thattaper is none other than our own Wayne Cattanach, one of thefounders of this list. The suggested .002" modificationsmake that taper something other than the Sir D. When youadd the few extra thousandths to the tips, that becomesDarryl H's modification of Wayne's taper. I suspect it'sstill a great rod, but it's not a Sir D. If I remember the story, in a tongue in cheek ceremony,John Cooper of England "knighted" Darryl after aparticularly mean tirade from our friend from Canada. Ingreat humility, Darryl rarely, if ever, used the title SirDarryl. For a few weeks that title was shortened to "SirD". Shortly thereafter even Darryl quit using the title torefer to himself. And since the time of knighting coincidedwith the period in which Darryl was ranting about Wayne'staper, the taper was dubbed the "Sir D" taper. Soon after that time, after the taper had acquired alife of its own, Darryl suggested some modifications tolower the stress levels in the last ten inches or so of thetip. Thus there were two tapers, the Sir D, and themodified Cattanach taper as computed by Darryl. I may have a few of the details slightly confused here,but the gist (sp?) of the story is as described above.Let's be clear, the Sir D is Wayne's 7' 4 weight taper aslisted in the first edition of his book on page 225. Thetaper with a few thousandths added is Darryl H.'smodification of the Sir D. Both Darryl and Wayne have been of great help to me. Iappreciate both of their contributions. But failing to givecredit where credit is due isn't fair. Rant mode off, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 08:55:23 2001 f2NEtLe09390 Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod Harry,you are 100% correct in your interpretation of events. This is the gospelof the Sir D according to Harry. In the words of PO Ackley, "Hell, I was there" Tony At 08:33 AM 3/23/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:All,Back to my role as defender of the free world, here. Itbugs me that the Sir D taper has acquired a life of its own,apart from it's original developer. The guru behind thattaper is none other than our own Wayne Cattanach, one of thefounders of this list. The suggested .002" modificationsmake that taper something other than the Sir D. When youadd the few extra thousandths to the tips, that becomesDarryl H's modification of Wayne's taper. I suspect it'sstill a great rod, but it's not a Sir D. If I remember the story, in a tongue in cheek ceremony,John Cooper of England "knighted" Darryl after aparticularly mean tirade from our friend from Canada. Ingreat humility, Darryl rarely, if ever, used the title SirDarryl. For a few weeks that title was shortened to "SirD". Shortly thereafter even Darryl quit using the title torefer to himself. And since the time of knighting coincidedwith the period in which Darryl was ranting about Wayne'staper, the taper was dubbed the "Sir D" taper. Soon after that time, after the taper had acquired alife of its own, Darryl suggested some modifications tolower the stress levels in the last ten inches or so of thetip. Thus there were two tapers, the Sir D, and themodified Cattanach taper as computed by Darryl. I may have a few of the details slightly confused here,but the gist (sp?) of the story is as described above.Let's be clear, the Sir D is Wayne's 7' 4 weight taper aslisted in the first edition of his book on page 225. Thetaper with a few thousandths added is Darryl H.'smodification of the Sir D. Both Darryl and Wayne have been of great help to me. Iappreciate both of their contributions. But failing to givecredit where credit is due isn't fair. Rant mode off, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Fri Mar 23 08:59:12 2001 f2NExBe09639 Subject: A Consensus of Bamboo Consciousness weekend: Bob Nunley, Harry Boyd, Ken Cole and I will be dining at Cafe Santa Fe inMtn. Home, off of 62 W going towards Flippin and Yellville, at 6:30 PM,Thursday the 29th, to discuss and reveal all of our deepest, darkest secretsregarding the tempering/heat treating of bamboo, amongst other topics. Allwho would like to co-exist upon this lofty plane, please respond to me offList so that a head count may be obtained. I know Tony S, Tilo W., DennisC., and possibly Randall G. will be attending Sow Bug. Just let me knowsomething guys. M-D from tcwege@earthlink.net Fri Mar 23 09:32:32 2001 f2NFWVe11104 Subject: RE: A Consensus of Bamboo Consciousness I will be coming to the sowbug next weekend and as much as I would love tohave my Bamboo Consciousness raised to new levels, I'm afraid I won't bedown until Friday afternoon. Hope to be able to meet you all then.Tilo ------Original Message------ Subject: A Consensus of Bamboo Consciousness weekend: Bob Nunley, Harry Boyd, Ken Cole and I will be dining at Cafe Santa Fe inMtn. Home, off of 62 W going towards Flippin and Yellville, at 6:30 PM,Thursday the 29th, to discuss and reveal all of our deepest, darkest secretsregarding the tempering/heat treating of bamboo, amongst other topics. Allwho would like to co-exist upon this lofty plane, please respond to me offList so that a head count may be obtained. I know Tony S, Tilo W., DennisC., and possibly Randall G. will be attending Sow Bug. Just let me knowsomething guys. M-D from atlflyfishing@mindspring.com Fri Mar 23 09:51:12 2001 f2NFpCe12117 Subject: Planes I need help from list menbers and others of plane knowledge. I purchased from old tool site 2 stanley 9.5 planes. I specified the need for early butnot collectable use planes. I received what I believe to be Stanleys ofdifferent vintages one almost unused and one definitly a well used planethat was not extreamly well cared for. I have trued the soles and ordered &received the new A2 blade from Hock, unbelievably flat, my question is thatone plane's throat will close compleatly, the newer vintage, and the olderwill close to about 3/32".How small of an opening at the throat is needed. Also any information onhow to improve performance or other type of improvments that can be madetoensure optimum results in plane performance. ThanksRick P. from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Fri Mar 23 10:02:04 2001 f2NG24e12836 Subject: Grayrock & SRG registrations Howdy folks! Registrations for the Grayrock2001 Rodmakers Gathering, and the Southern Rodmakers Gathering are already coming in. Thanks everyone for the early registrations. It really does help with the planning. I also wanted to let everyone know that I will send an email confirmation upon receiving your registrations. If you have sent in a registration, and have not received a confirmation from me within a reasonable amount of time please contact me and let me know. We can then determine if it was me who dropped the ball, or in fact your registration is roaming around somewhere in the bowels of the US Postal Service!!! :-) Look forward to seeing everyone in Grayling and/or Mountain Home, AR... Mike- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 23 12:21:42 2001 f2NILf518430 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Internet fraud - Off Topic I recently received an order for 4 Peerless Salmon reels from a person withan Indonesia address. I've never been there, but I doubted there would besalmon there... So, I contacted the bank of the credit card holder and itturns out the card belongs to a guy from Missouri. So, it is obviously not a legitimate order. If I were to ship the reels tothe crook, as the merchant I would ultimately lose the $2,150 for the priceof the order as eventually the cc holder would dispute the claim and win andthe bank will debit my account. So, I would be out the money and the reels.On my e- commerce coders chat board (even more prolific in messages thanthisRM list) there appears to be a gang of Indonesians that are into internetfraud and it is the merchants that will take the hit... not the card holderor the bank... So, those who sell on the web and take credit cards, this isa warning to be aware... This order will cost me about $75.00 or more for the costs incurred eventhough I will not lose out on the $2,100 which burns me up... But alesson... So the steps I've taken is to change my credit card system so that it onlyauthorizes and does not charge the card until I verify that it is alegitimate deal and I've added some stern warnings to would be crooks tryingto get free merchandise from me... The way the credit card merchantaccountsystems and rules are setup, the banks and the purchasers are protectedandthe merchants are the ones who will be left holding the bag in the event offraud. What I'm trying to say is that, using a credit card to buy things is goodsince the consumer does have remedies... and merchants on the web... WATCHOUT!!! Since there are many Listers who sell on the web, I thought it important toshare... Tony's mention of Indonesia sparked this message... Darrell Leewww.vfish.net from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 23 12:47:17 2001 f2NIlF519607 Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:47:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Planes Rick,Wayne's book has quite a nice primer on tuning your planes. And I thinkthere are several linked off the Rodmakers Page.Do a little file work on that old plane and you'll get that opening down toless than 3/32", I suspect. Harry "Richard S. Pettepher" wrote: I need help from list menbers and others of plane knowledge. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Fri Mar 23 13:13:19 2001 f2NJDH520548 f2NJClX27078;Sat, 24 Mar 2001 07:12:47 +1200 (NZST) Subject: Re: fishing Hi Timothy, I'm in Auckland New Zealand. Sorry I took so long to answer, Ihave been standing all the sheep back up again after they tipped over fromswivelling their heads too far back when Mir went over. Drop me a line- on or off list. Fishing in the North Island is almost, just about, any day now, ready tofire up as the weather cools off. We need a good rain to start the rainbowsrunning in the big lakes. I was at Rotorua last weekend. The fish arestacking up at the mouths, but not yet running in to the rivers (really) DGK----- Original Message ----- Subject: fishing is there anyone on the list from the northern islandof nz? please contact me. timothy ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Mar 23 15:13:50 2001 f2NLDn525420 f2NLDiD11676 Subject: Re: Internet fraud - Off Topic On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Darrell Lee wrote: I recently received an order for 4 Peerless Salmon reels from a personwithan Indonesia address. I've never been there, but I doubted there would besalmon there... So, I contacted the bank of the credit card holder and itturns out the card belongs to a guy from Missouri. I guess 4 is the magic #. Must be the same guy that just ordered 4Bogdans from me. He couldn't even specify what models he wanted. I nevergot as far as the ship-to address stage. Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com from lblan@provide.net Fri Mar 23 15:29:42 2001 f2NLTg526068 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Tony; this agrees with my recollection of the events. I do believe that thequoteis attributed incorrectly. My memory is fuzzy today, still at work and not agood week, but I think it was Bill Jordan? Harry,you are 100% correct in your interpretation of events. This is the gospelof the Sir D according to Harry. In the words of PO Ackley, "Hell, I was there" Tony At 08:33 AM 3/23/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:All,Back to my role as defender of the free world, here. Itbugs me that the Sir D taper has acquired a life of its own,apart from it's original developer. The guru behind thattaper is none other than our own Wayne Cattanach, one of thefounders of this list. The suggested .002" modificationsmake that taper something other than the Sir D. When youadd the few extra thousandths to the tips, that becomesDarryl H's modification of Wayne's taper. I suspect it'sstill a great rod, but it's not a Sir D. If I remember the story, in a tongue in cheek ceremony,John Cooper of England "knighted" Darryl after aparticularly mean tirade from our friend from Canada. Ingreat humility, Darryl rarely, if ever, used the title SirDarryl. For a few weeks that title was shortened to "SirD". Shortly thereafter even Darryl quit using the title torefer to himself. And since the time of knighting coincidedwith the period in which Darryl was ranting about Wayne'staper, the taper was dubbed the "Sir D" taper. Soon after that time, after the taper had acquired alife of its own, Darryl suggested some modifications tolower the stress levels in the last ten inches or so of thetip. Thus there were two tapers, the Sir D, and themodified Cattanach taper as computed by Darryl. I may have a few of the details slightly confused here,but the gist (sp?) of the story is as described above.Let's be clear, the Sir D is Wayne's 7' 4 weight taper aslisted in the first edition of his book on page 225. Thetaper with a few thousandths added is Darryl H.'smodification of the Sir D. Both Darryl and Wayne have been of great help to me. Iappreciate both of their contributions. But failing to givecredit where credit is due isn't fair. Rant mode off, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ http://www.provide.net from cdn@ticon.net Fri Mar 23 15:53:25 2001 f2NLrO527143 0000 Subject: book title Hi list,someone was talking about a book about a couplein Maine "moose on the water/bamboo on the bench?",or something like that- anybody got the correct title/author Ned from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 23 16:09:28 2001 f2NM9S527787 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Internet fraud - Off Topic I will give you his email address off list to compare... I replied to a lister that he recently purchased a reel from anIndonesian... It could be a perfectly legit transaction with a honestcitizen... However, my devious and inscrutible mind conjures up visions of the crooktrying to sell products he ripped off from other internet merchants... Agood deal may be had on the reel... OR... if you pay with a credit card,they may wait a while and then use your credit card number to fund more illgotten products... causing future headaches. Be careful... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Re: Internet fraud - Off Topic On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Darrell Lee wrote: I recently received an order for 4 Peerless Salmon reels from a personwithan Indonesia address. I've never been there, but I doubted there would besalmon there... So, I contacted the bank of the credit card holder and itturns out the card belongs to a guy from Missouri. I guess 4 is the magic #. Must be the same guy that just ordered 4Bogdans from me. He couldn't even specify what models he wanted. I nevergot as far as the ship-to address stage. Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Mar 23 16:21:49 2001 f2NMLh528417 Subject: Re: book title This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0B3BD.F26574A0 Hi Ned, It is titled: Moose in the Water Bamboo on The Bench It is by Kathy Scott(a list member). John K.Sorry for the rich text-but I had to underline the title.-----Original Message----- Subject: book title Hi list,someone was talking about a book about a couplein Maine "moose on the water/bamboo on the bench?",or something like that- anybody got the correct title/author Ned ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0B3BD.F26574A0 Hi Ned, Bench It is by Kathy Scott(a list member). John K.Sorry for the rich text-but I had to underline the title.-----Original Message-----From: Ned= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Friday, March 23, 2001 4:55 PMSubject: book = something = ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0B3BD.F26574A0-- from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Fri Mar 23 16:37:27 2001 f2NMbR529141 Subject: Re: book title It is titled: Moose in the Water Bamboo on The BenchIt is by Kathy Scott(a list member). BTW folks, Kathy and David are planning on being at the Grayrock2001Gathering this year, and will be most happy to autograph your copies. Pretty sure there will be copies available for sale there also... Mike- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 23 17:11:53 2001 f2NNBp500312 Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:56:38 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod I actually thought it was the other way around? I thought that Waynedesigned a 7.5foot rod, the 7652 or something of the sort, based on a combination of aCross and ayoung(??), which everyone liked. Darryl changed the tip dimensions slightlyand THATrod became known as the Sir D as far as I know. I think that over time theyhave justbecome one and the same? Either way it is a nice little rod.Shawn Larry Blan wrote: Tony; this agrees with my recollection of the events. I do believe that thequoteis attributed incorrectly. My memory is fuzzy today, still at work and not agood week, but I think it was Bill Jordan? Harry,you are 100% correct in your interpretation of events. This is the gospelof the Sir D according to Harry.In the words of PO Ackley, "Hell, I was there" Tony At 08:33 AM 3/23/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:All,Back to my role as defender of the free world, here. Itbugs me that the Sir D taper has acquired a life of its own,apart from it's original developer. The guru behind thattaper is none other than our own Wayne Cattanach, one of thefounders of this list. The suggested .002" modificationsmake that taper something other than the Sir D. When youadd the few extra thousandths to the tips, that becomesDarryl H's modification of Wayne's taper. I suspect it'sstill a great rod, but it's not a Sir D. If I remember the story, in a tongue in cheek ceremony,John Cooper of England "knighted" Darryl after aparticularly mean tirade from our friend from Canada. Ingreat humility, Darryl rarely, if ever, used the title SirDarryl. For a few weeks that title was shortened to "SirD". Shortly thereafter even Darryl quit using the title torefer to himself. And since the time of knighting coincidedwith the period in which Darryl was ranting about Wayne'staper, the taper was dubbed the "Sir D" taper. Soon after that time, after the taper had acquired alife of its own, Darryl suggested some modifications tolower the stress levels in the last ten inches or so of thetip. Thus there were two tapers, the Sir D, and themodified Cattanach taper as computed by Darryl. I may have a few of the details slightly confused here,but the gist (sp?) of the story is as described above.Let's be clear, the Sir D is Wayne's 7' 4 weight taper aslisted in the first edition of his book on page 225. Thetaper with a few thousandths added is Darryl H.'smodification of the Sir D. Both Darryl and Wayne have been of great help to me. Iappreciate both of their contributions. But failing to givecredit where credit is due isn't fair. Rant mode off, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ http://www.provide.net from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 23 17:17:47 2001 f2NNHk500629 Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:13:40 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: book title Ned,The title is Moose in the Water Bamboo on the bench, it is written byKathyScott, who lives in Maine. She and her husband David are members of the list.Ibelieve the book is available through Alder Creek Publishing in Michigan foraround$20.Shawn Ned Guyette wrote: Hi list,someone was talking about a book about a couplein Maine "moose on the water/bamboo on the bench?",or something like that- anybody got the correct title/author Ned from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 23 18:08:50 2001 f2O08n502332 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Moose in the Water Bamboo on the Bench You can find it along with other rodmaking books at http://www.vfish.net/RMListersFreeShipping.htm Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: book title Hi list,someone was talking about a book about a couplein Maine "moose on the water/bamboo on the bench?",or something like that- anybody got the correct title/author Ned from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Mar 23 18:22:40 2001 f2O0Md502783 Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:22:36 -0800 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod Nope,The Events described in my earlier post are the way things happened. AllDarryl didwas add a few thousandths to the Sir D taper of Wayne Cattanach. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: I actually thought it was the other way around? I thought that Waynedesigned a 7.5foot rod, the 7652 or something of the sort, based on a combination of aCross and ayoung(??), which everyone liked. Darryl changed the tip dimensions slightlyand THATrod became known as the Sir D as far as I know. I think that over time theyhave justbecome one and the same? Either way it is a nice little rod.Shawn Larry Blan wrote: Tony; this agrees with my recollection of the events. I do believe that thequoteis attributed incorrectly. My memory is fuzzy today, still at work and notagood week, but I think it was Bill Jordan? Harry,you are 100% correct in your interpretation of events. This is thegospelof the Sir D according to Harry.In the words of PO Ackley, "Hell, I was there" Tony At 08:33 AM 3/23/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:All,Back to my role as defender of the free world, here. Itbugs me that the Sir D taper has acquired a life of its own,apart from it's original developer. The guru behind thattaper is none other than our own Wayne Cattanach, one of thefounders of this list. The suggested .002" modificationsmake that taper something other than the Sir D. When youadd the few extra thousandths to the tips, that becomesDarryl H's modification of Wayne's taper. I suspect it'sstill a great rod, but it's not a Sir D. If I remember the story, in a tongue in cheek ceremony,John Cooper of England "knighted" Darryl after aparticularly mean tirade from our friend from Canada. Ingreat humility, Darryl rarely, if ever, used the title SirDarryl. For a few weeks that title was shortened to "SirD". Shortly thereafter even Darryl quit using the title torefer to himself. And since the time of knighting coincidedwith the period in which Darryl was ranting about Wayne'staper, the taper was dubbed the "Sir D" taper. Soon after that time, after the taper had acquired alife of its own, Darryl suggested some modifications tolower the stress levels in the last ten inches or so of thetip. Thus there were two tapers, the Sir D, and themodified Cattanach taper as computed by Darryl. I may have a few of the details slightly confused here,but the gist (sp?) of the story is as described above.Let's be clear, the Sir D is Wayne's 7' 4 weight taper aslisted in the first edition of his book on page 225. Thetaper with a few thousandths added is Darryl H.'smodification of the Sir D. Both Darryl and Wayne have been of great help to me. Iappreciate both of their contributions. But failing to givecredit where credit is due isn't fair. Rant mode off, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right lawsIgiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ http://www.provide.net --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from goodaple@tcac.net Fri Mar 23 18:27:31 2001 f2O0RV503032 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) 0600 Subject: Re: A Consensus of Bamboo Consciousness Organization: Jojo, I'll meet up with you guys at Santa fe. Looking forward to it. I sentamessage to your house, but I'm not sure if you received it. Randall G. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: A Consensus of Bamboo Consciousness weekend: Bob Nunley, Harry Boyd, Ken Cole and I will be dining at Cafe Santa Fe inMtn. Home, off of 62 W going towards Flippin and Yellville, at 6:30 PM,Thursday the 29th, to discuss and reveal all of our deepest, darkestsecretsregarding the tempering/heat treating of bamboo, amongst other topics.Allwho would like to co-exist upon this lofty plane, please respond to me offList so that a head count may be obtained. I know Tony S, Tilo W., DennisC., and possibly Randall G. will be attending Sow Bug. Just let me knowsomething guys. M-D from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Fri Mar 23 19:00:20 2001 f2O10K503806 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: Troutdale rodmakers gathering 2001 it has come t my attention that there is still some uncertainty regardingthe Troutdale rodmakers gathering (possibly to be referred to as theNorthwest rodmakers regional meeting or somethng like that). the official word from our organizer kevin calloway is still: "Troutdale Gathering 2001 Finally, someone is going to tell you what is going on. To start this off, the dates of the gathering are May 5 and 6. This is thefirst year that we have tried a two day program and I am hoping that it willhave plenty to offer everyone. This is what I know so far. The first day (Sat. 5) will have a similarformat to previous years with a meeting at the Troutdale Community Center.As for Sunday the 6th, we have access to the Wilderness Lakes fishingfacility about 20 miles south or Portland. There are three private lakes tochoose from with Rainbow to 7 lbs, Black bass, blue gill and crappie. Thelakes are private and pleasant and we will have the whole place toourselves. Now comes the problems. I have an opinion that the most prominent reasonweenjoy getting together is for social fellowship and the reassurance thatalthough we are insane to the rest of the world, we are not alone. With thatin mind, I would like to put together a program that has a smorgasbord ofevents rather that the more stagnant seated discussions or presentations.This type of program would allow people to pick and choose from a scheduledlist of events and still have the freedom to socialize. The problem is, thisstyle requires a large commitment from the attendees to participate. So ourfirst hurdle is to get people who are willing to offer up any type ofdemonstration. The demonstration could range from the preparing andpresenting of a handout to showing off a piece of equipment or procedure. Itdoes not have to be long or involved just of interest to rodmakers. I wouldappreciate hearing any feedback on this idea (good or bad) and I wouldespecially enjoy hearing from people who are willing to participate. Withoutthe groups involvement it will be very difficult to create a successfulgathering. The next question involves money and time. As I understand it from GaryLohkamp, we are allowed to use the Troutdale facility with the stipulationthat we do not charge admission. And I would certainly like to continue thattradition. There is however the question of being fed and watered. What isthe feeling of the attendees to the following: having a catered lunch(probably about 15.00), and meeting at a restaurant for an unhosted dinner.Also, there is the cost of the fishing trip. Access for the day is 500.00 attendance). would you also like a catered lunch for the fishing trip?. Ifwe go with the catered lunches etc. the cost of the gathering could bearound 50 to 60.00. I would like to hear your preference to being catered orleft to fend for yourselves. I will go with the majority response on thisone. Lastly, who do you blame for this- My name is Kevin Callaway and I can bereached at callrods@teleport.com or (503)590-3120 eve. If I have figured out a way to hide from you, you can contactChris Obuchowski at ChristopherO@epicimaging.com If you are planning to attend, please drop one of us a note so we can startfiguring a head count. The formal registration info should go out soon.Thank you" please, let's make this as good a meeting this year as it has in the past.everyone who can attend, should. the more the merrier (and the moreexchange of info and mi-information).the dates are set so start making you plans to get here by car, bus, plane,train, etc. thanks. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Mar 23 19:01:06 2001 f2O115503874 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:00:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod f2O116503875 Here's the reference post from the Rodmakers site. Chris__________________________________________________ Tue Nov 17 16:24:58 1998From:SalarFly@aol.comSubject:Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply In a message dated 11/17/98 1:34:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov writes: I have heard so much good about the Sir D taper. Can anyone refer meto the Sir D taper if it is available? In it's basic form it's in Wayne Cattanach's book, in the backin his list of tapers, the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. I just added.002 to the 5, 10 and 15 inch stations because I didn't likehow high the stress curve went at those points. It's probablynot neccessary, but I like it that way. Darryl Hayashida (aka Sir D) from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 23 19:34:54 2001 f2O1Yn504723 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Hi guys!Slow night eh?? All,little slow tonight eh? I'm batching it, wife took my daughter to a sleepoverwith Brownies. I'm just here in the kitchen/workshop wrapping my firstrattan gripand working on my father in laws rod. 60th birthday is coming up fast! Due toworkcommitments I had to switch his rod to a lightly flamed Dickerson 6611which I hadalready started when the idea of building him a 7613 first hit.I'm going to hate to lose this rod! I haven't even tried it out yet and I havealready split out one for myself. You know how some rods just seem......Idon'tknow... RIGHT even when they are in the forms?? Well that's the way this oneis. Ilike the feel of it.If anyone wants to chat, I'll be here in the kitchen,working away anddrinkinga fine Bodingtons....MMMMMM! ;^) I leave my e mail up and running on nightslikethis, that way I hear the messages as they come in. from timklein@qwest.net Fri Mar 23 19:58:18 2001 f2O1wH505219 (63.225.240.154) Subject: Re: Mir Brian wrote: Had a chance 2 weeks ago to watch Mir go by from the tower If anyone's interested, here's a fun NASA web site that allows you to easilylocate when and where in the sky the International Space Station and SpaceShuttle will be visible in your neck of the woods (it listed Mir too, upuntil last night!). http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/RealTime/JPass/20/ http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/RealTime/JPass/PassGenerator/ If you've got kids, they'll probably get a real kick out of this thing. Mineask me to check if anything's going to be overhead nearly every night thatthere's a clear sky. The thing that fascinates them the most is theinformation about where overhead it's going to fade out of sight! ---Tim from briansr@point-net.com Fri Mar 23 20:17:48 2001 f2O2Hl505676 Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:19:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Mir Thank's TimWe were using the olde NASA printed info to plot Mir and ISS .This is SOmuch more user friendly,easier AND funCheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Mir Brian wrote: Had a chance 2 weeks ago to watch Mir go by from the tower If anyone's interested, here's a fun NASA web site that allows you toeasilylocate when and where in the sky the International Space Station and SpaceShuttle will be visible in your neck of the woods (it listed Mir too, upuntil last night!). http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/RealTime/JPass/20/ http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/RealTime/JPass/PassGenerator/ If you've got kids, they'll probably get a real kick out of this thing.Mineask me to check if anything's going to be overhead nearly every night thatthere's a clear sky. The thing that fascinates them the most is theinformation about where overhead it's going to fade out of sight! ---Tim from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Mar 23 20:53:59 2001 f2O2rw506424 Subject: The Tale My website crashed and is yet to be fixed - there you would be about to readthe history of the taper that came to be known as the Sir D - Which isperfectly fine with me - rods get named for any number of reasons - andDarryl's appreciation for the taper is more than enough reason for the name. Years ago in fishing my favorite spot in life - the Section 13 Creeksection of the Jordan - Which I have shared with some of the list members -A section that I might point out is a bit more of a casting challenge thansome may wish to admit - anyway - I on occassion would meet this"Gentleman'who drove a '57 Rambler - which had a Charter member TU sticker in therearwindow - the pic is on the website - The sticker meant that he wasphysically sitting in George's living room the day TU was formed - Anywaythe rod that he 'Insisted' was the only proper rod to use in 'His' sectionof the river was a 7' 0" # 4 Dickerson - and I am sure the rod that I sawhad been personally made by Lyle for this Gentleman - Bellaire is only a fewmiles from the stream - Well I never had the nerve to ask to mic the rod -but I spent several afternoons watching the Gentleman fish - and in lateryears I tried to design a rod that had the "character' that I saw in thisrod. and thus the Sir D - and believe it or not I have never fish the rod ona stream - I had one made and in a freak accident it was broken in a highlyfigured walnut case that shattered in a fall from the roof of a S - 10Blazer into beach sand just above 'The Forks' on the Boardman - Some day Iwould actually like to catch a fish with the taper In the Clubhouse - the taper will ALWAYS be the Sir D Wayne from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 20:59:19 2001 f2O2xH506626 Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I can't remember the protagonists of all this apart from Darrell and WC butHarry is correct in what he says.It's something worth thrashing out because the whole thing *has* taken on alife of it's own and the Sir D will likely become a classic in time beingsuch a nice taper so it's worth getting the chain of events right even ifonly because it's a ripping yarn like the Garrison rod in the spokes incident.Could be wrong about the quote but I thought it was the title of one of hisbooks. Been a long time since I read the Ackley book I'm thinking of. Tony At 04:29 PM 3/23/01 +0500, Larry Blan wrote:Tony; this agrees with my recollection of the events. I do believe thatthe quoteis attributed incorrectly. My memory is fuzzy today, still at work and not agood week, but I think it was Bill Jordan? Harry,you are 100% correct in your interpretation of events. This is the gospelof the Sir D according to Harry. In the words of PO Ackley, "Hell, I was there" Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 21:06:47 2001 f2O36j506955 Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod fbcwin@3g.quik.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Nope, the original as per the 7' #4 taper in WC's first book is the Sir D.Darrell altered the tip for the last (I think) 15 inches which is theDarrell variation of the WC 7' #4.No question about it. Tony At 05:59 PM 3/23/01 -0500, Shawn Pineo wrote:I actually thought it was the other way around? I thought that Waynedesigned a 7.5foot rod, the 7652 or something of the sort, based on a combination of aCross and ayoung(??), which everyone liked. Darryl changed the tip dimensionsslightly and THATrod became known as the Sir D as far as I know. I think that over timethey have justbecome one and the same? Either way it is a nice little rod.Shawn /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from cdn@ticon.net Fri Mar 23 21:07:06 2001 f2O376506999 Subject: title Thanks to all for the quick reply to my book queery!Ned from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 23 21:15:04 2001 f2O3F2507428 Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod I think this message was writen while the events were already in motion andDarryl was assuming the question was relating to his modification so didn'tclarify.There is another message after this that will have Darryl outlining whatHarry wrote as being the what happened. Tony At 05:00 PM 3/23/01 -0800, Christopher McDowell wrote:Here's the reference post from the Rodmakers site. Chris__________________________________________________ Date:Tue Nov 17 16:24:58 1998From:SalarFly@aol.comSubject:Re: Young Perfectionist and Sir D favorite -Reply In a message dated 11/17/98 1:34:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,WILHELM.RON@epamail.epa.gov writes: I have heard so much good about the Sir D taper. Can anyone refer meto the Sir D taper if it is available? In it's basic form it's in Wayne Cattanach's book, in the backin his list of tapers, the 7' 0" 4 DT 2 piece. I just added.002 to the 5, 10 and 15 inch stations because I didn't likehow high the stress curve went at those points. It's probablynot neccessary, but I like it that way. Darryl Hayashida (aka Sir D) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from piscator@macatawa.org Fri Mar 23 22:00:06 2001 f2O405508545 Subject: Re: Hi guys!Slow night eh?? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0B3ED.6EB8CDC0 Shawn, I just sold my first fly rod on e-bay. I've given rods to family and =friends, but know I'll see them again. I can't believe I'm going =through separation anxiety! I never even though about selling rods when I started this, just wanted =better rods than I could afford and wanted to learn more about cane =rods. Also had the suspicion that I could make as good as I could buy =(not yet) and that it'd be most hip to fish rods I made myself. Well, I guess I can't say I made them myself. Wayne C. generously =offered his services as bamboo mentor and nursed me through the first =rod and has always given me good advice and feed back (right up to lying =about how ugly my first rod was. Thanks Wayne!). And lots of other =guys like Biondo, Rob Hofhines, Reed ("Just try this silk line. Hey, a =little bit can't hurt you!" It's just like giving a college freshman =their first joint. Bamboo will soon be classed as a gateway drug.), =Harold Demarest, Al Medved, Chris Lucker, Ron Kusse (call Him at your =own risk. Called Ron twice in the same month and my phone bill doubled! =But he is very generous with his time and knowledge), John Zimney, Russ =at GW, Bailey et. al at CSE, and lots of you on the rodmakers list that =have made an observation or suggestion or clarification just at the =right time. There has been lots of talk about a cane rod making guild =and how would you serve an apprenticeship, well, I'm here to tell you =that I am much better for the hand up offered by all of these guys and =lots of great dead rod makers whose tapers I glommed onto and used way =before I knew what the hell their numbers meant. But back to the rod I sold. I didn't get much for it, and I may never =sell anotherone, but I'll always wonder how this one is doing, and is it =being but away wet, or twisted as it's pulled apart, or having #2 =streamer hooks stuck in the grip, or leaned in a corner for a week-end, =etc. I'm sitting here looking at it, and can remember each and every =step that went into making it. The bamboo culm was really nice and =dense, but it turned out to have some really narsty nodes when it came =to straightening. You know the kind. They seem to go in a different =direction in each plane, and return to their old X and Y coordinates =when you try to realign the Z. And I couldn't find my 1/2 pound weight =when it came time to glue the thing up, so I guessed. I damn near made =a spiral rod, at least in the tips. But with lots of time and gentle =coaxing everything worked out well. The power fibers are there, and you =can feel the latent force within. This is going to be one good, solid =fishing rod if it doesn't get shut in a screen door and die before it's =time. Well, I gotta go put another log on the fire, find my extra exacto =blades, and finish this thing. The guy who bought it called and told me =just to finish it stock, as if I was going to use it. (I was terrified =he'd want pink wraps tipped gold. Or granger green! 8^), so I'm going =to wrap it brown tipped black, no cp. I'll let you know if I can let go =of it at the post office. Tight (glue) lines, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0B3ED.6EB8CDC0 =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00S=00h=00a=00w=00n=00,=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00I=00 ==00j=00u=00s=00t=00 =00s=00o=00l=00d=00 =00m=00y=00 ==00f=00i=00r=00s=00t=00 =00f=00l=00y=00 =00r=00o=00d=00=00o=00n=00 ==00=0D=00=0A==00e=00- =00b=00a=00y=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00I=00'=00v=00e=00 ==00g=00i=00v=00e=00n=00 =00r=00o=00d=00s=00 =00t=00o=00 ==00f=00a=00m=00i=00l=00y=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 ==00f=00r=00i=00e=00n=00d=00s=00,=00 =00b=00u=00t=00=00k=00n=00o=00w=00 ==00I=00'=00l=00l=00 =00s=00e=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00m=00=00=0D=00=0A==00a=00g=00a=00i=00n=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00 ==00c=00a=00n=00'=00t=00 =00b=00e=00l=00i=00e=00v=00e=00=00I=00'=00m=00 ==00g=00o=00i=00n=00g=00 =00t=00h=00r=00o=00u=00g=00h=00 ==00s=00e=00p=00a=00r=00a=00t=00i=00o=00n=00 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==00g=00u=00y=00 =00w=00h=00o=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00b=00o=00u=00g=00h=00t=00 =00i=00t=00=00c=00a=00l=00l=00e=00d=00 ==00a=00n=00d=00 =00t=00o=00l=00d=00 =00m=00e=00=00j=00u=00s=00t=00 ==00t=00o=00 =00f=00i=00n=00i=00s=00h=00 =00i=00t=00 ==00s=00t=00o=00c=00k=00,=00 =00a=00s=00 =00i=00f=00 =00I=00 ==00w=00a=00s=00 =00g=00o=00i=00n=00g=00 =00t=00o=00=00u=00s=00e=00 ==00=0D=00=0A==00i=00t=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00(=00I=00=00w=00a=00s=00 ==00t=00e=00r=00r=00i=00f=00i=00e=00d=00 =00h=00e=00'=00d=00 ==00w=00a=00n=00t=00 =00p=00i=00n=00k=00=00w=00r=00a=00p=00s=00 ==00t=00i=00p=00p=00e=00d=00 ==00g=00o=00l=00d=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00O=00r=00 ==00g=00r=00a=00n=00g=00e=00r=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00g=00r=00e=00e=00n=00!=00 =008=00^=00)=00,=00 =00s=00o=00 ==00I=00'=00m=00 =00g=00o=00i=00n=00g=00 =00t=00o=00=00w=00r=00a=00p=00 ==00i=00t=00 =00b=00r=00o=00w=00n=00=00t=00i=00p=00p=00e=00d=00 ==00b=00l=00a=00c=00k=00,=00 =00n=00o=00 ==00c=00p=00.=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00I=00'=00l=00l=00 ==00l=00e=00t=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00y=00o=00u=00 =00k=00n=00o=00w=00 =00i=00f=00 =00I=00=00c=00a=00n=00 ==00l=00e=00t=00 =00g=00o=00 =00o=00f=00 =00i=00t=00 =00a=00t=00==00t=00h=00e=00 =00p=00o=00s=00t=00 ==00o=00f=00f=00i=00c=00e=00.=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00T=00i=00g=00h=00t=00 ==00(=00g=00l=00u=00e=00)=00 ==00l=00i=00n=00e=00s=00,=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00B=00r=00i=00a=00n=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00------ =_NextPart_000_0020_01C0B3ED.6EB8CDC0-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Fri Mar 23 23:19:48 2001 f2O5Jl509748 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Hi guys!Slow night eh?? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0B3DE.B72F0EC0 Selling your own rods is a little like drugs.... It helps support yourhabit... now you can buy materials to build 3 more... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:03 PM Cc: Rodmakers Subject: Re: Hi guys!Slow night eh?? Shawn, I just sold my first fly rod on e-bay. I've given rods to family andfriends, but know I'll see them again. I can't believe I'm going throughseparation anxiety! I never even though about selling rods when I started this, just wantedbetter rods than I could afford and wanted to learn more about cane rods.Also had the suspicion that I could make as good as I could buy (not yet)and that it'd be most hip to fish rods I made myself. Well, I guess I can't say I made them myself. Wayne C. generously offeredhis services as bamboo mentor and nursed me through the first rod and hasalways given me good advice and feed back (right up to lying about how uglymy first rod was. Thanks Wayne!). And lots of other guys like Biondo, RobHofhines, Reed ("Just try this silk line. Hey, a little bit can't hurtyou!" It's just like giving a college freshman their first joint. Bamboowill soon be classed as a gateway drug.), Harold Demarest, Al Medved, ChrisLucker, Ron Kusse (call Him at your own risk. Called Ron twice in the samemonth and my phone bill doubled! But he is very generous with his time andknowledge), John Zimney, Russ at GW, Bailey et. al at CSE, and lots of youon the rodmakers list that have made an observation or suggestion orclarification just at the right time. There has been lots of talk about acane rod making guild and how would you serve an apprenticeship, well, I'mhere to tell you that I am much better for the hand up offered by all ofthese guys and lots of great dead rod makers whose tapers I glommed ontoandused way before I knew what the hell their numbers meant. But back to the rod I sold. I didn't get much for it, and I may neversell anotherone, but I'll always wonder how this one is doing, and is itbeing but away wet, or twisted as it's pulled apart, or having #2 streamerhooks stuck in the grip, or leaned in a corner for a week-end, etc. I'msitting here looking at it, and can remember each and every step that wentinto making it. The bamboo culm was really nice and dense, but it turnedout to have some really narsty nodes when it came to straightening. Youknow the kind. They seem to go in a different direction in each plane, andreturn to their old X and Y coordinates when you try to realign the Z. AndI couldn't find my 1/2 pound weight when it came time to glue the thing up,so I guessed. I damn near made a spiral rod, at least in the tips. Butwith lots of time and gentle coaxing everything worked out well. The powerfibers are there, and you can feel the latent force within. This is goingto be one good, solid fishing rod if it doesn't get shut in a screen doorand die before it's time. Well, I gotta go put another log on the fire, find my extra exacto blades,and finish this thing. The guy who bought it called and told me just tofinish it stock, as if I was going to use it. (I was terrified he'd wantpink wraps tipped gold. Or granger green! 8^), so I'm going to wrap itbrown tipped black, no cp. I'll let you know if I can let go of it at thepost office. Tight (glue) lines, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0B3DE.B72F0EC0 =FF=FE from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 24 01:51:41 2001 f2O7pd511781 Subject: Re: Hi guys!Slow night eh?? Brian,depends on why you make stuff but the way I look at it if the gear isn't usedthere's no point making it. You could keep every rod you make but you'd haveafavourite and not fish the others so you may as well only keep a couple forspecific uses and give away or sell the rest just to keep the clutter to aminimum. Tony At 11:03 PM 3/23/01 -0500, Brian Creek wrote: Shawn, I just sold my first fly rod on e-bay. I've given rods to family andfriends, but know I'll see them again. I can't believe I'm going throughseparation anxiety! I never even though about selling rods when I started this, just wantedbetter rods than I could afford and wanted to learn more about cane rods. Also had the suspicion that I could make as good as I could buy (not yet)andthat it'd be most hip to fish rods I made myself. Well, I guess I can't say I made them myself. Wayne C. generously offeredhis services as bamboo mentor and nursed me through the first rod andhasalways given me good advice and feed back (right up to lying about how uglymy first rod was. Thanks Wayne!). And lots of other guys like Biondo, RobHofhines, Reed ("Just try this silk line. Hey, a little bit can't hurtyou!" It's just like giving a college freshman their first joint. Bamboowill soon be classed as a gateway drug.), Harold Demarest, Al Medved, ChrisLucker, Ron Kusse (call Him at your own risk. Called Ron twice in the samemonth and my phone bill doubled! But he is very generous with his time andknowledge), John Zimney, Russ at GW, Bailey et. al at CSE, and lots ofyou onthe rodmakers list that have made an observation or suggestion orclarification just at the right time. There has been lots of talk about acane rod making guild and how would you serve an apprenticeship, well, I'mhere to tell you that I am much better for the hand up offered by all ofthese guys and lots of great dead rod makers whose tapers I glommedonto andused way before I knew what the hell their numbers meant. But back to the rod I sold. I didn't get much for it, and I may never sellanotherone, but I'll always wonder how this one is doing, and is it beingbutaway wet, or twisted as it's pulled apart, or having #2 streamer hooksstuckin the grip, or leaned in a corner for a week-end, etc. I'm sitting herelooking at it, and can remember each and every step that went into makingit. The bamboo culm was really nice and dense, but it turned out to havesome really narsty nodes when it came to straightening. You know thekind. They seem to go in a different direction in each plane, and return to theirold X and Y coordinates when you try to realign the Z. And I couldn't findmy 1/2 pound weight when it came time to glue the thing up, so I guessed.Idamn near made a spiral rod, at least in the tips. But with lots of timeandgentle coaxing everything worked out well. The power fibers are there, andyou can feel the latent force within. This is going to be one good, solid fishing rod if it doesn't get shut in a screen door and die before it'stime. Well, I gotta go put another log on the fire, find my extra exacto blades,and finish this thing. The guy who bought it called and told me just tofinish it stock, as if I was going to use it. (I was terrified he'd wantpink wraps tipped gold. Or granger green! 8^), so I'm going to wrap itbrowntipped black, no cp. I'll let you know if I can let go of it at the postoffice. Tight (glue) lines, Brian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from bh887@lafn.org Sat Mar 24 02:21:23 2001 f2O8LM512196 Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod No Tony, NOT PO Ackley.....Elmer Keith! I have the book! Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod Harry,you are 100% correct in your interpretation of events. This is the gospelof the Sir D according to Harry.In the words of PO Ackley, "Hell, I was there" Tony At 08:33 AM 3/23/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote:All,Back to my role as defender of the free world, here. Itbugs me that the Sir D taper has acquired a life of its own,apart from it's original developer. The guru behind thattaper is none other than our own Wayne Cattanach, one of thefounders of this list. The suggested .002" modificationsmake that taper something other than the Sir D. When youadd the few extra thousandths to the tips, that becomesDarryl H's modification of Wayne's taper. I suspect it'sstill a great rod, but it's not a Sir D. If I remember the story, in a tongue in cheek ceremony,John Cooper of England "knighted" Darryl after aparticularly mean tirade from our friend from Canada. Ingreat humility, Darryl rarely, if ever, used the title SirDarryl. For a few weeks that title was shortened to "SirD". Shortly thereafter even Darryl quit using the title torefer to himself. And since the time of knighting coincidedwith the period in which Darryl was ranting about Wayne'staper, the taper was dubbed the "Sir D" taper. Soon after that time, after the taper had acquired alife of its own, Darryl suggested some modifications tolower the stress levels in the last ten inches or so of thetip. Thus there were two tapers, the Sir D, and themodified Cattanach taper as computed by Darryl. I may have a few of the details slightly confused here,but the gist (sp?) of the story is as described above.Let's be clear, the Sir D is Wayne's 7' 4 weight taper aslisted in the first edition of his book on page 225. Thetaper with a few thousandths added is Darryl H.'smodification of the Sir D. Both Darryl and Wayne have been of great help to me. Iappreciate both of their contributions. But failing to givecredit where credit is due isn't fair. Rant mode off, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from iank@ts.co.nz Sat Mar 24 03:12:30 2001 f2O9CL512844 Subject: Time to start saving !! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0B4A6.A4661C20 Hi All, This is an early announcement of the Southern Hemisphere rodmakersgatheringto be held in the first weekend of March 2002. Location will be in Nelson, New Zealand , at the top of the South Island.There are about 30 rivers within 2 hours drive, and 5 rivers with 30 minutesdrive so plenty of fishing to choose from. I went fishing on the Motuekathis morning , saw the usual dozen or so fish , hooked one , landed none,but did not see another fisher person on what is considered by many one ofthe best brown trout rivers in the world. Details will be advised later but now is the time to start saving. ( thatmeans Tony and I have not organised anything yet except the date) Anyone wanting information to help plan their trip should contact me. Those who are wondering whether it is worth the trip should look at theattachment. from dutcher@email.msn.com Sat Mar 24 04:07:56 2001 f2OA7u513495 Sat, 24 Mar 2001 02:07:52 -0800 Sat, 24 Mar 2001 02:07:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Time to start saving !! FILETIME=[49B80470:01C0B44A] A "Trout-Bum" is born! If ever I have seen true love, this is it. Was anyoneable to get the fish away from the boy before it decomposed? Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Ian Kearney Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 1:08 AMSubject: Time to start saving !! Hi All, This is an early announcement of the Southern Hemisphere rodmakersgatheringto be held in the first weekend of March 2002. Location will be in Nelson, New Zealand , at the top of the South Island.There are about 30 rivers within 2 hours drive, and 5 rivers with 30minutesdrive so plenty of fishing to choose from. I went fishing on the Motueka this morning , saw the usual dozen or so fish , hooked one , landed none,but did not see another fisher person on what is considered by many one ofthe best brown trout rivers in the world. Details will be advised later but now is the time to start saving. ( thatmeans Tony and I have not organised anything yet except the date) Anyone wanting information to help plan their trip should contact me. Those who are wondering whether it is worth the trip should look at theattachment. Ian from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 24 04:44:42 2001 f2OAie514057 Subject: RE: Internet fraud - Off Topic A company I sometimes do work for has had several credit card frauds fromIndonesia, in fact every single one was fraudlent and have decided toimpliment a policy of not even replying to orders from there without a bankdraft as payment. So far they haven't seen a single bank draft from there.Every few weeks I get a series of emails all from different email addressin Indonesia wanting to buy rods, any rods, doesn't matter BUT they alwaysask me to falsly declare the true value of goods. I can relate to thatbecause import duties into Australia are pretty damned steep too but theimportant point is doing this means if you get burnt you'll have a problemwith declared values which is a reasonably serious problem here in Austanyway.Also, keep in mind you cannot insure posted items into Indonesia, thepostal service seems to be something of a lucky dip.There are obviously well intended people there are everywhere but be extracareful in Indonesia. Tony At 02:07 PM 3/23/01 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote:I will give you his email address off list to compare... I replied to a lister that he recently purchased a reel from anIndonesian... It could be a perfectly legit transaction with a honestcitizen... However, my devious and inscrutible mind conjures up visions of the crooktrying to sell products he ripped off from other internet merchants... Agood deal may be had on the reel... OR... if you pay with a credit card,they may wait a while and then use your credit card number to fund more illgotten products... causing future headaches. Be careful... Darrell /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 24 04:45:45 2001 f2OAjg514154 Subject: Re: Sir D -- was Re: kids rod Well, I knew somebody said it. Tony At 12:25 AM 3/24/01 -0800, Lee Freeman wrote:No Tony, NOT PO Ackley.....Elmer Keith! I have the book! Lee /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 24 04:49:40 2001 f2OAnb514414 Subject: Re: Time to start saving !! Don't let Ian con ya. You'd need to spend at least 2-3 hrs fishing beforehooking one like that :-) Tony At 09:08 PM 3/24/01 +1200, Ian Kearney wrote:Hi All, This is an early announcement of the Southern Hemisphere rodmakersgatheringto be held in the first weekend of March 2002. Location will be in Nelson, New Zealand , at the top of the South Island.There are about 30 rivers within 2 hours drive, and 5 rivers with 30minutesdrive so plenty of fishing to choose from. I went fishing on the Motuekathis morning , saw the usual dozen or so fish , hooked one , landed none,but did not see another fisher person on what is considered by many one ofthe best brown trout rivers in the world. Details will be advised later but now is the time to start saving. ( thatmeans Tony and I have not organised anything yet except the date) Anyone wanting information to help plan their trip should contact me. Those who are wondering whether it is worth the trip should look at theattachment. Ian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 24 05:10:06 2001 f2OBA4514826 Subject: Re: Time to start saving !! In all seriousness what Ian is suggesting would be one of the best tripsyou could make with a real chance of a fish of a lifetime and certainlyfishing in a place you'll remember for all time. There are very, very fewpeople living in NZ with more water and diversity of water to fish thanmost places I can think of. The Tongerero in the Nth Island during thesteel head run is the only place you need to put up with other people andthat place is a circus best avoided anyhow.The *only* time I ever shared a section of fishing in Sth Island NZ was onmy last trip where I was at Lake Brunner which has a large population ofvery big browns and I saw another fishing about 500 yards away. He went oneway and I the other so we could fish in peace. I hooked a monster and heonly watched :-)))) So, lets add up the pros:The fishing is great.NZ has beer that is almost as good as here, possibly on a par.The country side is terrific.The population has largely moved to Australia leaving only about 3 millionin the whole country, mostly in the Nth Island.The people are friendly.Access to decent rivers and streams is almost total. Certainly access isnot an issue. More often than not if you must ask permission for access inmost cases you'll get it. I've never needed to ask.The food is good.The roads are very good and hardly anybody uses them leaving them clearforitinerant fishermen.The NZ$ is trading at about .41c to the US$. You more than double the moneyyou start with the moment you arrive and prices are about the same inNZ/Aust and US so you gain in real terms. A big Mac meal deal in NZ costsabout $NZ4.95 for eg. That's $US 2.05 The cons:It's a long way.Sooner or later you'll need to return home. See you all there.Tony At 09:08 PM 3/24/01 +1200, Ian Kearney wrote:Hi All, This is an early announcement of the Southern Hemisphere rodmakersgatheringto be held in the first weekend of March 2002. Location will be in Nelson, New Zealand , at the top of the South Island.There are about 30 rivers within 2 hours drive, and 5 rivers with 30minutesdrive so plenty of fishing to choose from. I went fishing on the Motuekathis morning , saw the usual dozen or so fish , hooked one , landed none,but did not see another fisher person on what is considered by many one ofthe best brown trout rivers in the world. Details will be advised later but now is the time to start saving. ( thatmeans Tony and I have not organised anything yet except the date) Anyone wanting information to help plan their trip should contact me. Those who are wondering whether it is worth the trip should look at theattachment. Ian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from canazon@mindspring.com Sat Mar 24 10:42:18 2001 f2OGgI519906 Subject: re: time to start saving This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0B457.51172680 tony and ian,where do i sign up! also must take swmbo. she is the real trout =killer in our housemike c ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0B457.51172680 tony and ian, sign = must take swmbo. she is the real trout killer in our house c ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0B457.51172680-- from piscator@macatawa.org Sat Mar 24 11:24:43 2001 f2OHOg520611 Subject: Re: Hi guys!Slow night eh?? Tony, There's no point in making a fishing rod but to take it fishing. No pointin having kids but to raise 'em up right and turn 'em loose on the world.You still hope folks treat 'em right but know that the world is still theworld and there's jerks and scum all over, so you worry. Or I do, anyway. I just compared my fly rods to my kids. I guess I'm a 1%er fer sure. Brian from rmoon@ida.net Sat Mar 24 12:23:02 2001 f2OIN1521744 0000 Rodmakers Subject: Fly tying Expo I am pulling a no-no here, but I hope that you excuse it. The 8th Annual East bamboo events are scheduled, I will be having a meeting to plan the FFF 2002Bamboo Rod Symposium. Any of you who might be interested are cordiallyinvited to attend both the expo and the meeting. You can check out the expoat:http://www.snakerivercutthroats.com/expo_new.htm Ralph from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 24 13:48:22 2001 f2OJmK523152 Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:47:10 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Time to start saving !! Great,thanks allot guys I'm scrambling around trying to find money/time togo toOntario and British Columbia and thinking I should go to Grayrock now I havetoconvince my wife some how that I absolutely must go to New Zealand andAustralia nextyear. That means I'll have to bite the bullet and build a big 3 pc rod and buy anewbig reel and big line.....this just sucks! ;^)Shawn Tony Young wrote: In all seriousness what Ian is suggesting would be one of the best tripsyou could make with a real chance of a fish of a lifetime and certainlyfishing in a place you'll remember for all time. There are very, very fewpeople living in NZ with more water and diversity of water to fish thanmost places I can think of. The Tongerero in the Nth Island during thesteel head run is the only place you need to put up with other people andthat place is a circus best avoided anyhow.The *only* time I ever shared a section of fishing in Sth Island NZ was onmy last trip where I was at Lake Brunner which has a large population ofvery big browns and I saw another fishing about 500 yards away. He wentoneway and I the other so we could fish in peace. I hooked a monster and heonly watched :-)))) So, lets add up the pros:The fishing is great.NZ has beer that is almost as good as here, possibly on a par.The country side is terrific.The population has largely moved to Australia leaving only about 3 millionin the whole country, mostly in the Nth Island.The people are friendly.Access to decent rivers and streams is almost total. Certainly access isnot an issue. More often than not if you must ask permission for access inmost cases you'll get it. I've never needed to ask.The food is good.The roads are very good and hardly anybody uses them leaving them clearforitinerant fishermen.The NZ$ is trading at about .41c to the US$. You more than double themoneyyou start with the moment you arrive and prices are about the same inNZ/Aust and US so you gain in real terms. A big Mac meal deal in NZ costsabout $NZ4.95 for eg. That's $US 2.05 The cons:It's a long way.Sooner or later you'll need to return home. See you all there.Tony At 09:08 PM 3/24/01 +1200, Ian Kearney wrote:Hi All, This is an early announcement of the Southern Hemisphere rodmakersgatheringto be held in the first weekend of March 2002. Location will be in Nelson, New Zealand , at the top of the South Island.There are about 30 rivers within 2 hours drive, and 5 rivers with 30minutesdrive so plenty of fishing to choose from. I went fishing on the Motuekathis morning , saw the usual dozen or so fish , hooked one , landed none,but did not see another fisher person on what is considered by many oneofthe best brown trout rivers in the world. Details will be advised later but now is the time to start saving. ( thatmeans Tony and I have not organised anything yet except the date) Anyone wanting information to help plan their trip should contact me. Those who are wondering whether it is worth the trip should look at theattachment. Ian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 24 14:01:25 2001 f2OK1O523536 Subject: Brian/Selling first rod Brian,I empathize with you on this matter. I remember when I sold my first gun and how much I had put into it. Sliding wooden patchbox, engraved (old coin) silver thumb piece, the ramrod thimbles I forged by hand and all the rest. When the guy came to pick up the gun I almost told him I could not sell it because I had put so much of myself into it. Well I caved in and let him take the gun, but I took pictures of it and him holding it as well. When I saw the look of admiration on his face and found out how much he loved the gun ( by him telling so many people) it made it all worthwhile and I have not had the same anxiety of selling since. I am sure when all is said and done and this gentleman gets the rod you are making for him you will get the same response from him as the rest of us have gotten when we let our firstrod/gun get away to a satisfied customer. Congratulations as well on the sale.Bret from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 24 14:06:58 2001 f2OK6q523755 Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:06:07 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Brian/Selling first rod Did I miss a message or something????Shawn Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Brian,I empathize with you on this matter. I remember when I sold my firstgunand how much I had put into it. Sliding wooden patchbox, engraved (oldcoin)silver thumb piece, the ramrod thimbles I forged by hand and all the rest.When the guy came to pick up the gun I almost told him I could not sell itbecause I had put so much of myself into it. Well I caved in and let himtake the gun, but I took pictures of it and him holding it as well. When Isaw the look of admiration on his face and found out how much he lovedthegun ( by him telling so many people) it made it all worthwhile and I have nothad the same anxiety of selling since. I am sure when all is said and doneand this gentleman gets the rod you are making for him you will get thesameresponse from him as the rest of us have gotten when we let our firstrod/gunget away to a satisfied customer. Congratulations as well on the sale.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 24 14:26:01 2001 f2OKQ1524270 Subject: Branson,MO My wife thinks she might like to go to Branson,Mo and I was wondering. Is anyone in that area and if so what can you do down there besides see Bobby Vinton?bret from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Mar 24 15:37:12 2001 f2OLbC525649 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) 0600 Subject: Re: Branson,MO Organization: Wow Bret, Where to begin? Lots of great flyfishing many rodmakers withinanhour or so. Check out the White river. Taneycomo is right around theBransonarea. Go fish below the dam. You could drive to Mt. Home, AR. and fish theWhite below Bullshoals dam or go to Fish below the Norfork Dam. All GREATfishing. Good luck, Randall Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Branson,MO My wife thinks she might like to go to Branson,Mo and I was wondering. Isanyone in that area and if so what can you do down there besides seeBobbyVinton?bret from jojo@ipa.net Sat Mar 24 15:38:52 2001 f2OLcq525778 Subject: Re: Branson,MO They have good smallmouth fishing up in that area, but not this time ofyear, and there's Taneycomo, below the dam for trout. Branson is anightmareof traffic. Go if you must, but fish while you're there. M-D My wife thinks she might like to go to Branson,Mo and I was wondering. Isanyone in that area and if so what can you do down there besides seeBobbyVinton?bret from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Mar 24 16:09:40 2001 f2OM9d526906 Subject: AOL Fraud - Off Topic I normally don't send email on this kind of thing but, It happened to me personally. I received an email this morning from "AOL Billing" it stated that my card had been declined and that my service was "invalid." It had a link to go to. Instead of going there I called my credit card company. They said there was no problem and had paid AOL. In fact, that other than AOL, I had no balance. I went back to the "AOL" email and followed the link, they were asking for additional credit cards etc. If you followed the site you eventually ended up either in AOL proper or one hell of a look-a-like. I called AOL and they say it is a fraud and that they are aware of it. Anyone encounter this message.Doug from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 24 16:27:19 2001 f2OMRI527317 Subject: Re: AOL Fraud - Off Topic Doug & anyone else on AOL,DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT EVER open any e-mails that claim they are from AOL. If you have aquestion about anything that says it is from AOL go to them direct. I made the mistake of opening one of these one time and I got my friggen harddrive fried by the sender, cost me $500.00 to get mycomputer fixed. Also there are people that use AOL stuff to try and get your credit card #s along with additional #s claiming the first one will not work. OH YEH and also they sometimes try and get your soial security # as well. How do I know this? My neice was dumb enough to give hers and you should seethe hell she has gone through in the last 3 years trying to get this straightened out. So when it says AOL hit the delete and DO NOT OPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bret from Troutgetter@aol.com Sat Mar 24 16:56:13 2001 f2OMuD527998 Subject: Re: AOL Fraud - Off Topic --part1_2d.949b43e.27ee7ffb_boundary Just got the same message!Responded to the link and then went to aol's billing dep't. and yelled my silly head off.I hope I didn't just cut my own pencil necked throatMike --part1_2d.949b43e.27ee7ffb_boundary Just got the samemessage!Responded to the link and then went to aol's billing dep't. and yelled my silly head off.I hope I didn't just cut my own pencil necked throatMike --part1_2d.949b43e.27ee7ffb_boundary-- from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Mar 24 17:31:32 2001 f2ONVV529015 Subject: Re: Branson,MO In a message dated 3/24/01 2:26:49 PM Central Standard Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: yeah, Tony Orlando or Lawrence Welk! "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu from caneman@clnk.com Sat Mar 24 18:22:08 2001 f2P0M7500054 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Branson,MO FISH, BRET, FISH... from Branson, you are only a short drive to the White,The Norfork, The Little Red, Roaring River, Mauntauk State Park, BeaverTailwaters (also part of the white river system)... Man, you are in the mostprime trout country in the Southern US, including the present home (littlered) and former home (Norfork) of the World Record Brown Trout. Uh... ifyou need someone just to troutbum with, let me know... I fish any time Ihave a slow day, and most busy days! I'm about 4 hours from Branson, andthat's no drive at all for a good day of fishing! *S* Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message----- Subject: Branson,MO My wife thinks she might like to go to Branson,Mo and I was wondering. Isanyone in that area and if so what can you do down there besides see BobbyVinton?bret from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Mar 24 19:21:24 2001 f2P1LN501366 Subject: Re: Branson,MO Hay Bret,You might even stop in and visit with me. If you do, you only have to go 50' toget on the White.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Randall Gregory wrote: Wow Bret, Where to begin? Lots of great flyfishing many rodmakers withinanhour or so. Check out the White river. Taneycomo is right around theBransonarea. Go fish below the dam. You could drive to Mt. Home, AR. and fish theWhite below Bullshoals dam or go to Fish below the Norfork Dam. All GREATfishing. Good luck, Randall Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 2:25 PMSubject: Branson,MO My wife thinks she might like to go to Branson,Mo and I was wondering. Isanyone in that area and if so what can you do down there besides seeBobbyVinton?bret from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 24 21:54:11 2001 f2P3sA504154 WAA15794; Subject: Re: Branson,MO Besides the fishing there are some awesome sightseeing also. The Buffalo River is there. The first (only?) national river! Fish and see great scenery also. There is a neat limestone cave at Blanchard Springs. You go down 300 feet in an elevator. The only humans to enter the cave before the Park service took it over was a Forest Ranger in the 30's, a few spelunkers from U of A in the early 60's and an Indian whose skeleton they found in the cave when they explored it. Also Eureka Springs is a neat place to visit. They have a 7 story church that opens out to ground level on every floor! There are 235 streets in Eureka Springs and none cross. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 03:25 PM 3/24/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:My wife thinks she might like to go to Branson,Mo and I was wondering. Isanyone in that area and if so what can you do down there besides see BobbyVinton?bret from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Mar 24 23:40:55 2001 f2P5et505898 VAA06664 Subject: Lets get ready to rumble! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B4AC.676AC900 In the last 2 days I have received my planing forms from Frank =Armbruster, Cane from Golden Witch, assorted goodies i.e. tools, glues =and other necessities form Jon Lintvet. Bought my Stanley 9 1/2 from =Lowe's and had its sole done with a groove at a machine shop. FYI =Stanley official model number now is 12-920. The quickest way to find =where they are sold is to give the Stanley 800 # a call. Pick mine up = very excited and look forward to the difficult task at hand. I have =already received help from the list and feel by reading 5 years of the =archives that I already need to thank many of you even though we have =never conversed. For heaven sakes it is odd hearing my kids talk about =Wayne Cattanach because they have seen me watch his video tapesnumerous =times. One more thing my Hock Blade from Munro rod co. was put on back order, =Jon didn't let me know this, when I called he has gone fishing and wont =be back for a couple of days. Does anyone know the quickest source to =get a Hock Blade sent to me? I guess I will get mine from Jon someday. Thanks, Adam Vigil ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B4AC.676AC900 forms from Frank Armbruster, Cane from Golden Witch, assorted goodies = tools, glues and other necessities form Jon Lintvet. Bought my Stanley 9 = from Lowe's and had its sole done with a groove at a machine shop. FYI = official model number now is 12-920. The quickest way to find where they = sold is to give the Stanley 800 # a call. Pick mine up for $28. That was = the few deals in acquiring all my goodies. I am very excited and look = the difficult task at hand. I have already received help from the list = talk about Wayne Cattanach because they have seen me watch his video = numerous times. One more thing my Hock Blade fromMunro = put on back order, Jon didn't let me know this, when I called he has = fishing and wont be back for a couple of days. Does anyone know the = someday. Thanks, AdamVigil ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B4AC.676AC900-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Mar 24 23:46:41 2001 f2P5kf506174 48661BEF5 Subject: Canadian Cane Gathering (was The Grand Gathering) In response to a lot of inquiries, we have updated our web site for theCanadian Cane Bamboo Rod Gathering, May 26 and May 27, Belwood Lake,nearFergus, Ontario. Ray Blades, a member of the planning team, has updatedthe web site to include information on accommodation, registration, flyhatches, a few photos of (average ?) Brown trout and most anything youmight want to know about the area around the Grand River. As our programevolves more info and photos will be added to keep you up to date. The web site is from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 24 23:52:54 2001 f2P5qr506469 Subject: Re: Lets get ready to rumble! Adam;Don't worry about it, the blade that comes with yourStanley will work just fine until your Hock blade arrives, the onlydifference is you might have to sharpen it a few more times per rod.With the groove in the sole it will hold up pretty well iif you get itsharp to begin with.John Adam Vigil wrote: In the last 2 days I have received my planing forms from FrankArmbruster, Cane from Golden Witch, assorted goodies i.e. tools, gluesand other necessities form Jon Lintvet. Bought my Stanley 9 1/2 fromLowe's and had its sole done with a groove at a machine shop. FYIStanley official model number now is 12- 920. The quickest way to findwhere they are sold is to give the Stanley 800 # a call. Pick mine up am very excited and look forward to the difficult task at hand. I havealready received help from the list and feel by reading 5 years of thearchives that I already need to thank many of you even though we havenever conversed. For heaven sakes it is odd hearing my kids talkabout Wayne Cattanach because they have seen me watch his video tapesnumerous times. One more thing my Hock Blade from Munro rod co. wasput on back order, Jon didn't let me know this, when I called he hasgone fishing and wont be back for a couple of days. Does anyone knowthe quickest source to get a Hock Blade sent to me? I guess I will getmine from Jon someday. Thanks, Adam Vigil from Notsooyoun@aol.com Sun Mar 25 08:13:20 2001 f2PEDJ510871 Subject: Spinning rod taper --part1_8e.12f85f2c.27ef56f9_boundary Does anyone have a taper for an ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use to make one of 6' or 6 and one half foot, for 1-4 pound test line, but they won't give me the taper. I want to build one for my brother for ChristmasThanks, Gary L. Young --part1_8e.12f85f2c.27ef56f9_boundary Does anyone have ataper for an ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use to make one of 6' or 6 and one half foot, for 1-4 pound test line, but they won't give me the taper. I want to build one for my brother for ChristmasThanks, Gary L. Young --part1_8e.12f85f2c.27ef56f9_boundary-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Mar 25 09:08:05 2001 f2PF83511847 Subject: Re: Time to start saving !! rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Well, all I can say is life can be hard :-)Something I didn't mention before was if you go to NZ take your 3 & 4weights if you must but bring at least one 5 or 6.In the words of Robert Ruak "Use Enough Gun" I know HE said that because Istill have that book :-) Tony At 03:50 PM 3/24/01 -0500, Shawn Pineo wrote:Great,thanks allot guys I'm scrambling around trying to findmoney/time to go toOntario and British Columbia and thinking I should go to Grayrock now Ihave toconvince my wife some how that I absolutely must go to New Zealand andAustralia nextyear. That means I'll have to bite the bullet and build a big 3 pc rod andbuy a newbig reel and big line.....this just sucks! ;^)Shawn /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 25 09:20:24 2001 f2PFKN512163 f2PFIRPl010043;Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:18:27 -0600 Subject: Re: AOL Fraud - Off Topic True happiness is getting totally OFF AOL !GMA from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Mar 25 10:12:00 2001 f2PGBt512823 Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:11:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Spinning rod taper Try Cattanachs Fly Rod tapers for #4 weights !Paul Notsooyoun@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have a taper for an ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use tomakeone of 6' or 6 and one half foot, for 1-4 pound test line, but theywon'tgive me the taper. I want to build one for my brother for ChristmasThanks,Gary L. Young from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Mar 25 11:09:52 2001 f2PH9p513721 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Lets get ready to rumble! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0B50A.F831FD60 I have the Hock Blades in both A2 and standard models. Please contact meofflist if interested. BTW, how are the A2 blades working out for people? Is there a noticeableimprovement over the standard Hock blades? Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: Lets get ready to rumble! In the last 2 days I have received my planing forms from FrankArmbruster, Cane from Golden Witch, assorted goodies i.e. tools, glues andother necessities form Jon Lintvet. Bought my Stanley 9 1/2 from Lowe'sandhad its sole done with a groove at a machine shop. FYI Stanley officialmodel number now is 12-920. The quickest way to find where they are sold isto give the Stanley 800 # a call. Pick mine up for $28. That was one of thefew deals in acquiring all my goodies. I am very excited and look forward tothe difficult task at hand. I have already received help from the list andfeel by reading 5 years of the archives that I already need to thank many ofyou even though we have never conversed. For heaven sakes it is oddhearingmy kids talk about Wayne Cattanach because they have seen me watch hisvideotapes numerous times. One more thing my Hock Blade from Munro rod co. was put on back order,Jondidn't let me know this, when I called he has gone fishing and wont be back Blade sent to me? I guess I will get mine from Jon someday. Thanks, Adam Vigil ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0B50A.F831FD60 the Hock Blades in both A2 and standard models. Please contact me off = interested. improvement over the standard Hock blades? Darrellwww.vfish.net VigilSent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 9:50 rumble! planing forms from Frank Armbruster, Cane from Golden Witch, assorted = i.e. tools, glues and other necessities form Jon Lintvet. Bought my = 1/2 from Lowe's and had its sole done with a groove at a machine shop. = Stanley official model number now is 12-920. The quickest way to find = they are sold is to give the Stanley 800 # a call. Pick mine up for = was one of the few deals in acquiring all my goodies. I am very = look forward to the difficult task at hand. I have already received = the list and feel by reading 5 years of the archives that I already =need it is odd hearing my kids talk about Wayne Cattanach because they have = watch his video tapes numerous times. One more thing my Hock Blade from = was put on back order, Jon didn't let me know this, when I called he = fishing and wont be back for a couple of days. Does anyone know the = source to get a Hock Blade sent to me? I guess I will get mine from = someday. Thanks, Adam =Vigil ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0B50A.F831FD60-- from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Mar 25 11:09:52 2001 f2PH9q513723 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Canadian Cane Gathering (was The Grand Gathering) Very cool website Ted! Hey Chuck & Don! Maybe we should rename our Bishop Gathering... CaliforniaCane Conference Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Canadian Cane Gathering (was The Grand Gathering) In response to a lot of inquiries, we have updated our web site for theCanadian Cane Bamboo Rod Gathering, May 26 and May 27, Belwood Lake,nearFergus, Ontario. Ray Blades, a member of the planning team, has updatedthe web site to include information on accommodation, registration, flyhatches, a few photos of (average ?) Brown trout and most anything youmight want to know about the area around the Grand River. As our programevolves more info and photos will be added to keep you up to date. The web site is from sallred@mindspring.com Sun Mar 25 13:40:34 2001 f2PJeX516481 Subject: St. Louis Area rodmakers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C0B531.26B9A720 Would anyone in the St. Louis area be willing to show me some of their =rods which they have finished with spar varnish? I finished my first =rod with tung oil after dipping a test piece using a spar urethane and =not likening the results. I would be interested to see if I would like =the varnish better for my next rod. sallred@mindspring.com ThanksScott Allred ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C0B531.26B9A720 Would anyone in the St. Louis area be = show me some of their rods which they have finished with spar = finished my first rod with tung oil after dipping a test piece using a = would like the varnish better for my next rod. sallred@mindspring.com ThanksScott Allred ------=_NextPart_000_00B2_01C0B531.26B9A720-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 25 15:42:30 2001 f2PLgT518699 Subject: Sanding blocks/for guys who purchased Guys, All who have purchased sanding blocks. The last of them went out Friday and everyone who has not received yours by Saturday 3/31 let me know. Patrick C., yours has to travel the furthest.Bret from jojo@ipa.net Sun Mar 25 15:43:18 2001 f2PLhD518815 Subject: Re: Spinning rod taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01C0B542.44558C20 Wouldn't give you the taper? Oh, the inhumanity of it all! The =inconsiderate louts. Sounds like a good excuse to exercise a personal =boycott, Gary. NO MORE ORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! Ask someone at Orvis if the=company is related to the House of Hardy in London. I think I see a =common wankership here. M-D Does anyone have a taper for an ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use to = one of 6' or 6 and one half foot, for 1-4 pound test line, but they = ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01C0B542.44558C20 Wouldn't give you the = inhumanity of it all! The inconsiderate louts. Sounds like a good excuse = exercise a personal boycott, Gary. NO MORE ORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! Ask = Orvis if the company is related to the House of Hardy in London. I think = common wankership here. M-DDoes anyone have a taper for an = spinning rod. Orvis use to make one of 6' or 6 and one half foot, = pound test line, but they won't give me the taper. I want to build = ------=_NextPart_000_00DA_01C0B542.44558C20-- from oakmere@carol.net Sun Mar 25 15:56:14 2001 f2PLuE519301 Subject: RE: Cattanach Videotape Hi Folks: Anyone know where I can purchase the Cattanach videotape? Any input wouldbe helpful. Thanks in advance. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from jteft@frontiernet.net Sun Mar 25 17:20:24 2001 f2PNKN520931 Sun, 25 Mar 2001 16:20:22 -0700 claiming to be "jteft" 2001 Subject: Reel Parts This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012A_01C0B558.338B71A0 Gang,I'am in search for a fastener(aka Screw) that holds the handle side of a =Bronson Multi Royal 380 on to the reel. If you happen to be in =possession of such and item and would part with it please contact me off = Thanks,Jim Tjteft@frontiernet.net ------=_NextPart_000_012A_01C0B558.338B71A0 Gang,I'am in search for a fastener(aka Screw) that holds = side of a Bronson Multi Royal 380 on to the reel. If you happen to be in = possession of such and item and would part with it please contact me off = Thanks,Jim Tjteft@frontiernet.net ------=_NextPart_000_012A_01C0B558.338B71A0-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 25 17:44:25 2001 f2PNiP521496 Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:44:45 -0600 Subject: Re: St. Louis Area rodmakers --------------E768EEDB987D35E1283CB17F There will be a number of rods made by rod makers from the list at the Sowbug Roundup on Friday andSaturday in Mtn. Home Arkansas. http://www.northarkansasflyfisher.org/Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Scott & Marta Allred wrote: Would anyone in the St. Louis area be willing toshow me some of their rods which they havefinished with spar varnish? I finished my firstrod with tung oil after dipping a test pieceusing a spar urethane and not likening theresults. I would be interested to see if Iwould like the varnish better for my nextrod. sallred@mindspring.com ThanksScott Allred --------------E768EEDB987D35E1283CB17F There will be a number of rods made by rod makers from the list at theSowbug Roundup on Friday and Saturday in Mtn. Home Arkansas. Scott & Marta Allred wrote: Wouldanyone in the St. Louis area be willing to show me some of their rods which tung oil after dipping a test piece using a spar urethane and not likening --------------E768EEDB987D35E1283CB17F-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Mar 25 17:51:44 2001 f2PNpc521743 Subject: Re: Spinning rod taper --------------02E74750C8AF6FE38E9A7EC6 Check with Bob Nunley on the list. He has a realgood 6' spinning rod taper.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Wouldn't give you the taper? Oh, the inhumanityof it all! The inconsiderate louts. Sounds likea good excuse to exercise a personal boycott,Gary. NO MORE ORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! Ask someoneat Orvis if the company is related to the Houseof Hardy in London. I think I see a commonwankership here. M-D Does anyone have a taper for anultralight spinning rod. Orvis use tomakeone of 6' or 6 and one half foot, for1-4 pound test line, but they won'tgive me the taper. I want to build one Thanks,Gary L. Young --------------02E74750C8AF6FE38E9A7EC6 Check with Bob Nunley on the list. He has a real good 6' spinning rod taper. Jojo DeLancier wrote: Wouldn'tgive you the taper? Oh, the inhumanity of it all! The inconsiderate louts.Sounds like a good excuse to exercise a personal boycott, Gary. NO MOREORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! Ask someone at Orvis if the company is related tothe House of Hardy in London. I think I see a common wankership Doesanyone have a taper for an ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use tomakeone of 6' or 6 and one halffoot, for 1-4 pound test line, but they won'tgive me the taper. I wantto build one for my brother for ChristmasThanks,Gary L.Young --------------02E74750C8AF6FE38E9A7EC6-- from sats@gte.net Sun Mar 25 18:55:04 2001 f2Q0t3523194 Subject: aluminum polish? What's the best aluminum polish?Got an older cheep reel. ------------------------ ----Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from tyler.taylor@sympatico.ca Sun Mar 25 20:11:15 2001 f2Q2BE524501 0500 Subject: ferrules why are all ferrules made of nickel silverwhat other materials can you use from lblove@omniglobal.net Sun Mar 25 20:58:57 2001 f2Q2wv525521 Subject: RE: ferrules Hi Marta, You can use aluminum, brass, bronze, stainless steel, titanium, Monel, inconel(is that spelled right??), or bamboo (Bob Nunley's done it before).I am sure you can use others too, but those are the materialsthat I have heard of the most. I believe that nickel silver is used most because of tradition. Nickel silver use to be used in the makingof instruments (scientific and musical) and "pretty things" like knobs, switches, and latches. It machines much like brass yet has the appearance of silver, but with out the added cost. hope this helps,Brad -----Original Message----- Subject: ferrules why are all ferrules made of nickel silverwhat other materials can you use from jczimny@dol.net Sun Mar 25 21:30:20 2001 f2Q3UJ526273 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: ferrules Having examined available ferrule materials, I am of the opinion thatnickel/silver alloy 752, the traditional one, is the best availablecompromise material for ferrules. Aluminum and titaium gauls; monel andincanel are too tough and stringy to machine well (making a completedferrule out of a drawn billet would work). Duronze is in use by Winston.But it can's be drawn easily so it must be machined. Stainless wouldwork too if machined.There might be some composites that would work well.Other than those few, we are left with 752.JohnZ Bradley Love wrote: Hi Marta, You can use aluminum, brass, bronze, stainless steel,titanium, Monel, inconel(is that spelled right??), orbamboo (Bob Nunley's done it before).I am sure you can use others too, but those are the materialsthat I have heard of the most. I believe that nickel silver is used most because oftradition. Nickel silver use to be used in the makingof instruments (scientific and musical) and "pretty things"like knobs, switches, and latches. It machines much likebrass yet has the appearance of silver, but with out the added cost. hope this helps,Brad -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 8:05 PM Subject: ferrules why are all ferrules made of nickel silverwhat other materials can you use from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Mar 25 21:57:22 2001 f2Q3vK526929 Subject: Re: ferrules It's a cost/practicability thing. NS works so well nothing compares overalland NS does all that's required while not being terribly expansive. I fooled about with monel at one point and while you can make the walls*very* thin it's so hard to machine and expensive it's not worth the weightsavings that in the end weren't that much but it's the only material I evertried that came close to being as good as NS over all. Phosphor Bronze isok but because it's softer than NS it is also a bit tricky to machine aswell and tends to stick a bit after a day's fishing unless you dress themale extremly well. NS by comparison has a pretty wide range of tollerancein this respect.If you had a free source of other materials and wanted to use it up it maybe worth messing about but if you need to buy the metal NS is excellent. Tony At 10:39 PM 3/25/01 -0500, J. C. Zimny wrote:Having examined available ferrule materials, I am of the opinion thatnickel/silver alloy 752, the traditional one, is the best availablecompromise material for ferrules. Aluminum and titaium gauls; monel andincanel are too tough and stringy to machine well (making a completedferrule out of a drawn billet would work). Duronze is in use by Winston.But it can's be drawn easily so it must be machined. Stainless wouldwork too if machined.There might be some composites that would work well.Other than those few, we are left with 752.JohnZ Bradley Love wrote: Hi Marta, You can use aluminum, brass, bronze, stainless steel,titanium, Monel, inconel(is that spelled right??), orbamboo (Bob Nunley's done it before).I am sure you can use others too, but those are the materialsthat I have heard of the most. I believe that nickel silver is used most because oftradition. Nickel silver use to be used in the makingof instruments (scientific and musical) and "pretty things"like knobs, switches, and latches. It machines much likebrass yet has the appearance of silver, but with out the added cost. hope this helps,Brad -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 8:05 PM Subject: ferrules why are all ferrules made of nickel silverwhat other materials can you use /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 25 22:04:56 2001 f2Q44t527187 Subject: Books List,Since we are so slow right now I have a question for you. I need some help in finding someplace to sell some books on duck hunting and maybe some fishing books.I have tried e-bay to no avail with a couple so I need another avenue. If anyone knows of someplace e-mail me off list please.Bret from miangler@yahoo.com Sun Mar 25 23:05:34 2001 f2Q55X528297 2001 21:05:35 PST Subject: Mercury mini-lathe I am a very long way from getting a lathe, but I amthinking about it. Woodcraft carries a model thatsmade in New Zealand called the Mercury Mini-Lathe. Iwas wondering if anyone has had any experinece withit? Thanks, Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from tyler.taylor@sympatico.ca Sun Mar 25 23:12:42 2001 f2Q5Ce528627 srv.bellnexxia.net 0500 Subject: ferrules has anyone used the material oillite or aluminumbronze from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Mar 25 23:13:20 2001 f2Q5DJ528720 Subject: 2002 symposium This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C0B570.56EFE1E0 Hi Ralph,Count me in to particpate in the symposium and let me know what you'd =like me to do.Ray Gould ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C0B570.56EFE1E0 Hi Ralph,Count me in to particpate in the = me know what you'd like me to do.RayGould ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C0B570.56EFE1E0-- from cathcreek@hotmail.com Mon Mar 26 00:34:49 2001 f2Q6Ym500393 Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:34:44 -0800 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:34:44 GMT Subject: Re: 2002 symposium FILETIME=[D89067D0:01C0B5BE] Ralph, if there is something I can help with,please count on me as well. Would really like to be of assistance. Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: "Ray Gould" CC: Subject: 2002 symposiumDate: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:12:46 -0800 Hi Ralph,Count me in to particpate in the symposium and let me know what you'd like me to do.Ray Gould _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Mar 26 01:20:57 2001 f2Q7Ku501651 Sun, 25 Mar 2001 23:20:53 -0800 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 07:20:52 GMT Subject: Re: ferrules FILETIME=[4A91FC80:01C0B5C5] Oillite is far too soft and weak, al bronze galls and is too brittleNS is a very good material to work with(thanks again JZ). Machines very well with diamond tooling and is very tolerant to work with.A.J. From: marta taylor Subject: ferrulesDate: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 00:06:23 -0500 has anyone used the material oillite or aluminumbronze _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from bh887@lafn.org Mon Mar 26 03:58:00 2001 f2Q9vx503602 Subject: Re: aluminum polish? Try Simichrome. Seems to do the job for me. It, or any other polish, wouldwork best on aluminum not corroded by salt water or etched by otherchemicals. Try it, what have you to lose? It is a pasty concoction, comesin tubes. Good hardware stores carry it. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: aluminum polish? What's the best aluminum polish?Got an older cheep reel.------------------------ ----Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Mar 26 04:56:13 2001 f2QAuD504268 sender ) Subject: Re: ferrules Hi Marta, Let's not forget fiberglass. I am one of these days going touse a fiberglass ferrule (tip over butt) on one of my personal rods. Itwill reduce the rod weight considerably. Also , I feel using parrafin asa ferrule lubricant the fiberglass will last longer than metal ferrules.I hate ill fitting ferrules!. Marty Bradley Love wrote: Hi Marta, You can use aluminum, brass, bronze, stainless steel,titanium, Monel, inconel(is that spelled right??), orbamboo (Bob Nunley's done it before).I am sure you can use others too, but those are the materialsthat I have heard of the most. I believe that nickel silver is used most because oftradition. Nickel silver use to be used in the makingof instruments (scientific and musical) and "pretty things"like knobs, switches, and latches. It machines much likebrass yet has the appearance of silver, but with out the added cost. hope this helps,Brad -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 8:05 PM Subject: ferrules why are all ferrules made of nickel silverwhat other materials can you use from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Mar 26 05:52:10 2001 f2QBq9504964 f2QBpu056839; Subject: Re: Spinning rod taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0B647.402D0780 Martin Yep! Certain tension there in the circum-oral orifice! Peter Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 7:42 AMSubject: Re: Spinning rod taper Wouldn't give you the taper? Oh, the inhumanity of it all! The =inconsiderate louts. Sounds like a good excuse to exercise a personal =boycott, Gary. NO MORE ORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! Ask someone at Orvis if the=company is related to the House of Hardy in London. I think I see a =common wankership here. M-D Does anyone have a taper for an ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use = one of 6' or 6 and one half foot, for 1-4 pound test line, but they = ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0B647.402D0780 Martin Yep! Certain tension there in the = orifice! Peter ----- Original Message ----- Jojo =DeLancier Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: Spinning rod =taper Wouldn't give you the= the inhumanity of it all! The inconsiderate louts. Sounds like a good = to exercise a personal boycott, Gary. NO MORE ORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! = someone at Orvis if the company is related to the House of Hardy in = think I see a common wankership here. M-DDoes anyone have a taper for = spinning rod. Orvis use to make one of 6' or 6 and one half = 1-4 pound test line, but they won't give me the taper. I want to = one for my brother for Christmas Thanks, Gary L. = ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C0B647.402D0780-- from GriffinJohn@msn.com Mon Mar 26 06:32:15 2001 f2QCWE505481 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 04:32:08 -0800 Subject: Cork Grip Restoration =_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B5C7.99D89040" FILETIME=[C5EB3B00:01C0B5F0] ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B5C7.99D89040 Any tips on restoring and refurbishing old flyrod cork grips? Particularly, what's the best way to address an otherwise pristine grip t=hat is beavered up at the leading edge by hook digs? With maintaining ori=ginality foremost in mind, is it best to try and replace just the front r=ing, or to build it back up with some sort of filler? What makes the best filler for major (and minor) repairs? I've tried carp=enters glue and cork dust with mixed results. I think the glue dries too =hard. On some old rods, it almost looks as if the natural imperfections in the =grips were filled at the factory, generally with something quite dark. Ca=n this filling be replicated? Thanks in advance, JohnGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B5C7.99D89040 Any tipson re= ip that is beavered up at the leading edge by hook digs? With maintaining=originality foremost in mind, is it best to try and replace just the fro=nt ring, or to build it back up with some sort of filler? &nbs=p; What makes the best filler for major (and minor) repairs? I='ve tried carpenters glue and cork dust with mixed results. I think the g= alm=ost looks as if the natural imperfections in the grips were filled at the=factory, generally with something quite dark. Can this filling be replic= advance, = JohnGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B5C7.99D89040-- from gdabrowski@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 07:29:29 2001 f2QDTS506233 2001 05:29:30 PST Subject: Books Bret; You can find no better source for books onsporting subjects than the folks at Just GoodBooks in Belgrade, MT. Give them a try I suspectthat they will be interested in your collection.They're on the web at www.justgoodbooks.com Gary --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Since we are so slow right now I have aquestion for you. I need some help in finding someplace to sell some books onduck hunting and maybe some fishing books.I have tried e-bay to no avail with a couple soI need another avenue. If anyone knows of someplace e-mail me off listplease.Bret __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Mar 26 08:39:57 2001 f2QEdu508613 GAA26474 GAA10979 0800 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: spey rod I was wondering if anybody has or knows where I could find a 12' spey rodtaper. I think that we have maybe 5 or 6 steelhead left here and Washingtonstate and I think that I would like to catch one again only this time with aspey rod. I got a chance to cast a couple up at corbett lake last year and amdying to build one. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from jojo@ipa.net Mon Mar 26 08:52:09 2001 f2QEq8509127 Subject: Re: Spinning rod taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0242_01C0B5D1.B191F960 Nothing that the judicious use of a correctly sized ball peen hammer =couldn't loosen. M-D Martin Yep! Certain tension there in the circum-oral orifice! Peter Wouldn't give you the taper? Oh, the inhumanity of it all! The =inconsiderate louts. Sounds like a good excuse to exercise a personal =boycott, Gary. NO MORE ORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! Ask someone at Orvis if the=company is related to the House of Hardy in London. I think I see a =common wankership here. M-D Does anyone have a taper for an ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use = one of 6' or 6 and one half foot, for 1-4 pound test line, but = give me the taper. I want to build one for my brother for = ------=_NextPart_000_0242_01C0B5D1.B191F960 Nothing that the = loosen. M-D Peter McKean Martin Yep! Certain tension there in the = orifice! Peter Jojo =DeLancier Wouldn't give youthe = the inhumanity of it all! The inconsiderate louts. Sounds like a = to exercise a personal boycott, Gary. NO MORE ORVIS! NO MORE ORVIS! = someone at Orvis if the company is related to the House of Hardy in = I think I see a common wankership here. M-DDoes anyone have a taper for = ultralight spinning rod. Orvis use to make one of 6' or 6 and = foot, for 1-4 pound test line, but they won't give me the = want to build one for my brother for Christmas Thanks, = Young = ------=_NextPart_000_0242_01C0B5D1.B191F960-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 26 09:06:31 2001 f2QF6T509794 Subject: Re: ferrules Aluminium bronze works ok. Never heard of oillite though. Tony At 12:06 AM 3/26/01 -0500, marta taylor wrote:has anyone used the material oillite or aluminumbronze /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Mar 26 09:29:47 2001 f2QFTk510787 f2QFRTUd004778;Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:27:29 -0600 Subject: Re: ferrules I use an aluminum/bronze alloy for engine bushings, and it takes carbidetools to cut it after the first pass, or drilling ! It really work hardensFAST. and is extremely tough ! GMA from GriffinJohn@msn.com Mon Mar 26 10:06:03 2001 f2QG63S12830 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:05:59 -0800 Subject: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 =_NextPart_001_000B_01C0B5E5.78FC1AE0" FILETIME=[A5EA0A70:01C0B60E] ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C0B5E5.78FC1AE0 Anyone have a Hardy like this one? Mine is a #E68189 (May 1949; tks Rich). Needs a total redo. Not sure if i=ts worth it. I'd like to check winding color, stripper type, ferrule finish, correct s=ection lengths, reelseat detail before bothering to refurbish. Have looke=d for reference, but seems that the only Hardy book is very dear ($), and=I'm not sure these details are addressed by it. BTW, and this comes from someone who is just now reading about rodtapers=, this Hardy seems pretty light. Over the varnish, it measures 0.318" 11"=above the butt; 0.245" just below the female butt ferrule; 0.178" just b=elow the female mid ferrule, and 0.078" just below the tiptop. Hard to fi= Is it just a noodle? Thanks in advance, JohnGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C0B5E5.78FC1AE0 Anyonehave a = = e finish, correct section lengths, reelseat detail before bothering to re= just=now reading about rod tapers, this Hardy seems pretty light. Over the va=rnish, it measures 0.318" 11" above the butt; 0.245" just below the femal= just below the tiptop. Hard to find anything as light in the few taper t= John= Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C0B5E5.78FC1AE0-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Mar 26 10:10:14 2001 f2QGADS12981 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:06:24 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: spey rod f2QGAES12982 Hi Patrick, I have the Hoergaard HC, it is designed for dry fly on medium Norwegiansalmon rivers, also the Warra 12'#6. The latter I don't know much about,but Tom S. and Chris B. posted this taper a couple of months ago. I have theWarra taper at my work computer, and can get it to You tomorrow if Youdon'tget it elswhere today........... regardsdanny Horgörd H.C. 12` # 9 TIP MIDT BUTT0 ,100 50 ,278 100 ,4385 ,120 55 ,290 105 ,46110 ,135 60 ,305 110 ,48015 ,150 65 ,325 115 ,49920 ,167 70 ,333 120 ,51525 ,183 75 ,345 125 ,53030 ,200 80 ,360 130 ,55235 ,220 85 ,373 135 ,57040 ,235 90 ,387 140 ,59045 ,250 95 ,403 144 ,600 from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Mar 26 10:33:24 2001 f2QGXNS13764 (5.5.2653.19) "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" Subject: RE: Troutdale rodmakers gathering 2001 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B611.E2E79160 gary, ed hartzell told me the same thing this weekend. the important idea that i wanted to get out to the public is that THE NORTHWESTERN RODMAKERS MEETING WILL HAPPEN MAY 5 & 6 there were some questions posted recently wondering if it was going tohappen, and when. so i wanted evryone to start planning to attend. chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Troutdale rodmakers gathering 2001 Chris Seen your post in Rodmakers today. And thought l should let you know that Troutdale will not be the site this year. As l understood from Kevin that possibly a location in Tigard may be used. This is due to my not being able to book the troutdale meeting hall on the dates we wanted. Gary ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B611.E2E79160 gary, ed hartzell told me the same thing this weekend. the important idea that i wanted to get out to the public is that THE NORTHWESTERN RODMAKERS MEETING WILL HAPPEN MAY 5 &6 there were some questions posted recently wondering if it was going to happen,and when. so i wanted evryone to start planning to attend. chris. -----Original Message-----From: GLohkamp@aol.com 9:07 Re: Troutdale thought l should let you know that Troutdale will not be the site this year. As l understood from Kevin that possibly a location in Tigard may be used.This is due to my not being able to book the troutdale meeting hall on the ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B611.E2E79160-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Mar 26 11:59:38 2001 f2QHxcS16946 Subject: AOL SCAM AGAIN AOL members, Here is another scam being presented as an AOL SpecialOffer. When you guys on AOL get these DELETE them and report them to AOL.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Mar 26 12:09:31 2001 f2QI9US17227 Subject: Two jokes/Delete if you do not want the bandwith --part1_54.11e539ab.27f0dfcd_boundary Guys,OK, I know I am the one who gives everyone else h-ll when they put trivial crap on the list but every once in awhile I get a joke sent to me by my wife that I think you guys will enjoy. Go ahead and flame me for doing it but we need some humor when Terry A. is not around.Bret --part1_54.11e539ab.27f0dfcd_boundary 11:14:40 -0500 Mar 2001 11:14:07 -0500 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:10:03 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Fw: Enjoy 30-1999)) id 86256A1B.00584E16 ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:04:31 -0600 LReiter@hcri.org,NBerry@hcri.org,sblattner@whfund.org,RobertVerbanac@aol.com,bobbyv1@visto.com,elphaba@execpc.com Subject: Fwd: Fw: Enjoy ---------------------- Forwarded by Andrea Verbanac/FHS on 03/26/200110:02 AM--------------------------- KASMoore@aol.com on 03/25/2001 09:34:46 PM bluemesa@execpc.com,JKBPDD3@aol.com, tlelzey@netusa1.net, RoyBeth@aol.com,BMathia@aol.com,npmcgraw@tampabay.rr.com, Andrea Verbanac/FHS@FHS Subject: Fwd: Fw: Enjoy    by 0500 KASMoore@aol.com; Sun,25 Mar 2001 16:16:30 -0500 Subject: Fw: Enjoy  -----Original Message----- ; dianew@nls.net ;english_rose52@hotmail.com ;jancru@adelphia.net; kimi28_2000@hotmail.com;randold@basf-corp.com ; SuzySoup@prodigy.net Subject: Fw: Funnies  --------- Forwarded message ----------From: Dorothy A Randol JUDIMEL@PRODIGY.NET,Nicole M Paciucci , tadrdot@aol.comDate: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:02:27 -0500Subject: FunniesMessage-ID: ---------------------- Forwarded by Dorothy ARandol/NLE/CHARLOTT/BASF- CORP/BASFon 03/22/2001 08:01 AM --------------------------- "Lynda_Stephens/The_Revere_Group"@reveregroup.com on 03/21/200111:31:19AM everitts,nancy.farmer, PHammond, zerae37, bheywood, HHolley,"Brad_Jones/The_Revere_Group", dplombar, Dorothy A Randol, PRobst,DVitellicc:Subject: Funnies The Americans and Russians at the height of the arms racerealized that if they continued in the usual manner theywere going to blow up the whole world. One day they satdown and decided to settle the whole dispute with one dogfight. They would have five years to breed the bestfighting dog in the world and whichever side's dog wonwould be entitled to dominate the world. The Russians found the biggest meanest Doberman andRottweiler female dogs in the world and bred them with thebiggest meanest Siberian wolves. They selected only thebiggest and strongest puppy from each litter, removed hissiblings, which gave him all the milk. After five yearsthey came up with the biggest meanest dog the world hadever seen. Its cage needed steel bars that were five inches thick andnobody could get near it. When the day came for the dog fight, the Americans showedup with a strange animal. It was a nine foot long Dachshund.Everyone felt sorry for the Americans because they knewthere was no way that this dog could possibly last 10seconds with the Russian dog. When the cages were opened up, the Dachshund came out ofit's cage and slowly waddled over towards the Russian dog.The Russian dog snarled and leaped out of it's cage andcharged the American dachshund. But, when it got closeenough to bite the Dachshund's neck, the Dachshund openedit's mouth and consumed the Russian dog in one bite. There was nothing left at all of the Russian dog. The Russians came up to the Americans shaking their headsin disbelief. "We don't understand how this could havehappened. We had our best people working for five years with themeanest Doberman and Rottweiler female dogs in the worldand the biggest meanest Siberian wolves." "That's nothing", an American replied. "We had our bestplastic surgeons working for five years to make analligator look like a Dachshund."******************************The pope goes to heaven. St. Patrick meets him at the gateand tells him that there are three sections of heaven, themeadow, the sports field and the library. The pope chooses the library as he wants to read theoriginal, untranslated Bible. A few months later, while reading he screams,"AAARrrrrrrrgh." St. Patrick runs into library and asks what the matter is,to which the pope replies "The word was celebrate!!!"   --part1_54.11e539ab.27f0dfcd_boundary-- from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Mar 26 13:25:23 2001 f2QJPMS19589 Subject: Re: Cork Grip Restoration This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B5E7.5CA899C0 Hi John, dust and Duco Cement with just a tiny bit of titanium dioxide whitening =agent does a very nice job. The Duco cement is a clear multi-purpose =household glue available from local hardware stores. It is made by =Devcon Consumer Products. The titanium dioxide was obtained from a local =paint store.Ray Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 4:37 AMSubject: Cork Grip Restoration Any tips on restoring and refurbishing old flyrod cork grips? Particularly, what's the best way to address an otherwise pristine =grip that is beavered up at the leading edge by hook digs? With =maintaining originality foremost in mind, is it best to try and replace =just the front ring, or to build it back up with some sort of filler? What makes the best filler for major (and minor) repairs? I've tried =carpenters glue and cork dust with mixed results. I think the glue dries =too hard. On some old rods, it almost looks as if the natural imperfections in =the grips were filled at the factory, generally with something quite =dark. Can this filling be replicated? Thanks in advance, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B5E7.5CA899C0 Hi John, paste out of cork dust and Duco Cement with just a tiny bit of titanium = multi-purpose household glue available from local hardware stores. It is = Devcon Consumer Products. The titanium dioxide was obtained from a local = store.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Griffin Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 = AMSubject: Cork Grip =Restoration Any tips on restoring and refurbishing old flyrod cork =grips? Particularly, what's the best way to address an otherwise = that is beavered up at the leading edge by hook digs? With maintaining = originality foremost in mind, is it best to try and replace just the = ring, or to build it back up with some sort of filler? What makes the best filler for major (and minor) repairs? I've = carpenters glue and cork dust with mixed results. I think the glue = hard. On some old rods, it almost looks as if the natural imperfections = grips were filled at the factory, generally with something quite dark. = this filling be replicated? Can radial "ridging" of the cork be fixed on old grips? Thanks in advance, John Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B5E7.5CA899C0-- from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Mar 26 13:28:42 2001 f2QJSgS19682 Subject: Re: ferrules My recollection is that "oilite" looks like a sintered bronze that isimpregnated with oil. It makes great bushings but probably would not glue upwell at all.Ray- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: ferrules has anyone used the material oillite or aluminumbronze from iank@ts.co.nz Mon Mar 26 14:20:08 2001 f2QKK6S21454 2001 08:15:55 +1200 Subject: the "real" southern gathering ( sorry Harry) persuade SWMBO or others , you may like to consider some of the followingsites. www.fishnhunt.co.nz , www.purenz.co.nz , www.fishandgame.org.nz ,www.webnz.co.nz/Nelson , www.nz.com/tour/Nelson/ , www.fishnz.co.nz Ian from dutcher@email.msn.com Mon Mar 26 14:20:44 2001 f2QKKhS21473 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:20:36 -0800 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:20:35 -0800 Subject: Test FILETIME=[37C4AC70:01C0B632] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B5EF.54C3C060 Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B5EF.54C3C060 name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320- 0349;USALABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:P. O. Box349=3D0D=3D0ABrinnon, =Washington 98320- 0349=3D0D=3D0AUSAURL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010326T202148ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B5EF.54C3C060-- from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Mar 26 14:47:00 2001 f2QKkxS24704 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022Subject: Re: AOL SCAM AGAIN All this talk of AOL scams and so forth begs the question: Why do you guysstick with AOL? Seems like more trouble than it's worth. Jason From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:59:11 EST Subject: AOL SCAM AGAIN AOL members, Here is another scam being presented as an AOL SpecialOffer.When you guys on AOL get these DELETE them and report them to AOL.Bret from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Mar 26 15:17:41 2001 f2QLHeS26996 Subject: Re: ferrules Much too weak for ferrules, ref. oilite bronze, and alum./bronze workhardens far too much. Face it, N.S. or brass is by far the best material forferrules ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Mar 26 15:31:57 2001 f2QLVuS28147 f2QLTZPl011584;Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:29:38 -0600 Subject: Re: ferrules Exactly Ray, and it gives little strength, because it's so porous !GMA from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Mar 26 15:36:47 2001 f2QLakS28484 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules here's a question from the Devil's advocate: it seems like a lot of the oldbrass drawn ferrules were brittle and often split. do you think this problemis inherent in the material itself (the brass), or was a result of themanufacturing process? if the brass itself is the problem, maybe one should simply stick to nickelsilver. chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ferrules Much too weak for ferrules, ref. oilite bronze, and alum./bronze workhardens far too much. Face it, N.S. or brass is by far the best material forferrules ! GMA from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Mar 26 15:37:55 2001 f2QLbsS28654 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:37:40 -0800 Subject: Re: the "real" southern gathering ( sorry Harry) Ian,What is it you blokes say down there?No worries, mate.... Harry Ian Kearney wrote: topersuade SWMBO or others , you may like to consider some of the followingsites. www.fishnhunt.co.nz , www.purenz.co.nz , www.fishandgame.org.nz ,www.webnz.co.nz/Nelson , www.nz.com/tour/Nelson/ , www.fishnz.co.nz --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Mar 26 16:05:45 2001 f2QM5iS00311 Subject: Any lure collectors out there? Hi folks,A friend just brought me a J.T. Buel Spinner fromWhitehall, NY. It has a #5 near the loop for tying on thefly. The spinner is trailed by a treble hook wrapped with abunch of feathers. The condition is okay only. What littleinformation I can find says this may be of some historicalvalue. I had refinished a rod for this fellow, gratis, and hebrought this as a thank you gift. If it's worth anything,someone please let me know... Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from newmin@ptdprolog.net Mon Mar 26 16:36:14 2001 f2QMaDS02532 0000 Subject: H M shipley rod Hi folksAnyone have any info on the value of a rod signed HM Shipley 1897. 3 pc8' with extra tip. with wooden octagon folding rod tube and cloth bag. Ihaven't seen it but am told it is in good shape with no sets. any guesses?thanks in advanceNewmin from if6were9@bellsouth.net Mon Mar 26 16:54:02 2001 f2QMs1S03452 Subject: Re: AOL SCAM AGAIN These scams on AOL are not new. It was one of the motivating factors in mydecision to drop the service some four years ago. One other thing to watchforwith AOL, and this is a scam run by the actual service. I found (after 5months) that AOL had been double charging my credit card for their monthlyfee.They could never give me anything more than the electronic equivalent of ashoulder shrug as to why it just started happening, and refused to give me arefund. They offered instead to give me 5 months of "free" use of theirservice. This was not five months of service in addition to the five monthsthat I had been double billed, but simply five months of no charge to make up dropping the service. Of course it took almost a year (11 months) and twicemonthly phone calls to get the refund check processed and mailed. Sincethen Ihave talked to many former AOL members that had the same problem. Onepoor soulhad been double billed for 2 years and only found out when she went to cancelher service. AOL tried to offer her an additional two years of service andhadto be threatened with civil action before they paid up, again taking almost ayear to do so. from dutcher@email.msn.com Mon Mar 26 16:54:56 2001 f2QMstS03601 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:54:51 -0800 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:54:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Any lure collectors out there? FILETIME=[C44EDD90:01C0B647] Hi Harry, That's my lure. I lost it on the Nats-a-ratchet River in upper Mainewhen I was seven years old. I missed cast when a moose scared me and thelure hung it's self in a tree. Give it back or I am going to tell. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:04 PMSubject: Any lure collectors out there? Hi folks,A friend just brought me a J.T. Buel Spinner fromWhitehall, NY. It has a #5 near the loop for tying on thefly. The spinner is trailed by a treble hook wrapped with abunch of feathers. The condition is okay only. What littleinformation I can find says this may be of some historicalvalue. I had refinished a rod for this fellow, gratis, and hebrought this as a thank you gift. If it's worth anything,someone please let me know... Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 26 17:40:29 2001 f2QNeRS05323 Subject: RE: ferrules rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu NS almost seems to be designed for the job. Therre are other alloys thatwill work but it's not worth the messing with. Stick with NS. At 01:32 PM 3/26/01 -0800, Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD wrote:here's a question from the Devil's advocate: it seems like a lot of the oldbrass drawn ferrules were brittle and often split. do you think this problemis inherent in the material itself (the brass), or was a result of themanufacturing process? if the brass itself is the problem, maybe one should simply stick to nickelsilver. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:26 PM Subject: Re: ferrules Much too weak for ferrules, ref. oilite bronze, and alum./bronze workhardens far too much. Face it, N.S. or brass is by far the best material forferrules ! GMA /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from oakmere@carol.net Mon Mar 26 18:25:06 2001 f2R0P5S06663 Subject: RE: Cattanach Videotape Hi Guys: Thanks for the follow up and advice. I found a source. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Mar 26 18:32:43 2001 f2R0WhS07038 Subject: Re: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0B62B.B5864B20 John:Sorry I can't help, but all bamboo is "worth it".Regards.Ed Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:11 AMSubject: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 Anyone have a Hardy like this one? Mine is a #E68189 (May 1949; tks Rich). Needs a total redo. Not sure =if its worth it. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0B62B.B5864B20 John: it".Regards.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Griffin Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 = AMSubject: Hardy Palonkona "The = 8 1/2' 3/1 Anyone have a Hardy like this one? Mine is a #E68189 (May 1949; tks Rich). Needs a total redo. Not = its worth it. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0B62B.B5864B20-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Mar 26 18:43:47 2001 f2R0hkS07581 Subject: Catskill Flytier rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Awhile back somone said they saw someplace where there was The Catskill Flytier for sale. I was wondering where this was as i think I may want to sell my copy as well. It is 1st edition and I thought whomever had this up said it sold for big bucks. Would the person who posted that contact me aff list please?Bret from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Mar 26 18:46:20 2001 f2R0kJS07800 , Subject: Re: ferrules Hi Chris,First of all I do believe we should stick to nickel silver. Having said thatI also feel the drawn brass ferrules split because stresses were set upduring the drawing process and because the tensile stength of the materialitself is substantially less than that of nickel silver. I have observedthat the cracks in the brass ferrules are almost always lengthwise to theferrule and not circumferential.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: ferrules here's a question from the Devil's advocate: it seems like a lot of theoldbrass drawn ferrules were brittle and often split. do you think thisproblemis inherent in the material itself (the brass), or was a result of themanufacturing process? if the brass itself is the problem, maybe one should simply stick tonickelsilver. chris -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:26 PM Subject: Re: ferrules Much too weak for ferrules, ref. oilite bronze, and alum./bronze workhardens far too much. Face it, N.S. or brass is by far the best materialforferrules ! GMA from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Mar 26 18:56:56 2001 f2R0utS08294 Subject: Brass ferrules cracking tyler.taylor@sympatico.ca, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Chris,My thinking on why brass ferrules always split is because brass workhardens. The process of flexing that is put into the ferrules as you cast would probably have the same effect as when you work brass with a hammer. When I build a gun i heat brass to cherry red and quench in water to make it workable, as i am hammering out buttplates, triggerguards, and other parts the brass gets harder to work with so it is back to the torch to heat it up again. Just my .02 worth on why brass ferrules always crack.bret from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Mar 26 19:41:42 2001 f2R1ffS09426 Subject: Re: Any lure collectors out there? Harry, the Buel lures are very collectable. I'm out of touch with values,but if you check the web for references to the National Fishing LureCollectors Club (NFLCC) you should find some references. ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: Any lure collectors out there?Date: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:04 PM Hi folks,A friend just brought me a J.T. Buel Spinner fromWhitehall, NY. It has a #5 near the loop for tying on thefly. The spinner is trailed by a treble hook wrapped with abunch of feathers. The condition is okay only. What littleinformation I can find says this may be of some historicalvalue. I had refinished a rod for this fellow, gratis, and hebrought this as a thank you gift. If it's worth anything,someone please let me know... Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Mar 26 20:03:38 2001 f2R23bS10156 Subject: Nyatex replacement - Polyurethane ? --part1_c.1327d6e3.27f14ed0_boundary Hi, Last week I went to glue up a tip section with Nyatex. I have glued up 8 rods using Nyatex without problems. The last two were done with a new batch of glue. This was about 3 months ago. This time, as always, I followed Waynes method of mixing but was unable to get a good mix. I even made a mixer ourof my Demeral tool and a roofing nail. The curing agent has developed a very high viscosity and is impossible to mix. Rather than fight this epoxy and to simplify my work I looked at several polyurethane glues that several list members have used. A one part, out of the tube or bottle has appeal. In order to test the glues I did the following: I took a strip of bamboo that had been lying in the scrap heap on the floor planed it flat and then cut it in to 2 1/2 inch strips. I then used Probond, Titebond Polyurethane and Gorilla Glue to glue three sets of strips together. Two strips were over lapped about 1 inch or so and held together with anAcco Binder clip. For the first test I did not wet the bamboo but applied the glue to the dry surfaces (remember I live in Houston so nothing is truly dry). The glue was allowed to dry for 24 hours. The glued strips were then placed in my vise and the joints pulled apart with pliers. In each case the glue joint failed without taking any of the bamboo with it. I concluded that there must not have been enough moisture in the cane for the polyurethane to cure properly. The next test was similar but, this time I wet the strips and let them sit clamped them. 24 hours later I pulled them apart with the pliers. This time the cane fibers pulled away as the strips were separated. The cane failed not just the glue. I tested the viscosity of the glues by forming similar sized pools on a piece of newspaper and looking at the spread of the glue. The Probond spread farthest while the Titebond and Gorilla had similar spreads. After the glues had spread and began foaming I stuck a toothpick in each puddle and tried to judge the set up time by moving the toothpick at intervals. The idea was to see how much straightening time each would provide. The Probond seem to provide the most working time. At 15 minutes the Titebond was firming up while the Gorilla and Probond were still easily moved. At 30 minutes they had all firmed up to some degree with the Gorilla still the most easily moved. At 45 minutes the Probond and Gorilla were still moveable but the Titebond was firm. The situation was similar at 60 minutes. At 1 hour and 15 minutes all were firm. As you know these glues foam as they set. The Probond had the least foam mass; the Titebond had the most and the Gorilla intermediate. I'm getting ready to glue up a tip section and believe I will use the Probond as it seems to have the longest working time. Does anyone have anycommends on this selection or polyurethane glues in general? Mark Cole --part1_c.1327d6e3.27f14ed0_boundary Hi, Last week I went to glue up a tip section with Nyatex. I have glued up 8rods using Nyatex without problems. The last two were done with a newbatch of glue. This was about 3 months ago. This time, as always, I followedWaynes method of mixing but was unable to get a good mix. I even made a mixerour of my Demeral tool and a roofing nail. The curing agent has developed avery high viscosity and is impossible to mix. Rather than fight this epoxy andto simplify my work I looked at several polyurethane glues that several list appeal. In order to test the glues I did the following: I took a strip of bamboo that had been lying in the scrap heap on thefloor planed it flat and then cut it in to 2 1/2 inch strips. I then usedProbond, Titebond Polyurethane and Gorilla Glue to glue three sets of stripstogether. Two strips were over lapped about 1 inch or so and held together withan Acco Binder clip. For the first test I did not wet the bamboo but applied theglue to the dry surfaces (remember I live in Houston so nothing is trulydry). The glue was allowed to dry for 24 hours. The glued strips were then placedin my vise and the joints pulled apart with pliers. In each case the glue joint failed without taking any of the bamboo with it. I concluded that theremust not have been enough moisture in the cane for the polyurethane to cure properly. The next test was similar but, this time I wet the strips and let themsit clamped them. 24 hours later I pulled them apart with the pliers. Thistime the cane fibers pulled away as the strips were separated. The canefailed not just the glue. I tested the viscosity of the glues by forming similar sized pools on apiece of newspaper and looking at the spread of the glue. The Probond spread the glues had spread and began foaming I stuck a toothpick in each puddle andtried to judge the set up time by moving the toothpick at intervals. The idea wasto see how much straightening time each would provide. The Probond seemto provide the most working time. At 15 minutes the Titebond was firmingup minutes they had all firmed up to some degree with the Gorilla still the most moved. At 45 minutes the Probond and Gorilla were still moveable butthe Titebond was firm. The situation was similar at 60 minutes. At 1 hourand 15 minutes all were firm. As you know these glues foam as they set. The Probond had the leastfoam mass; the Titebond had the most and the Gorilla intermediate. I'm getting ready to glue up a tip section and believe I will use theProbond as it seems to have the longest working time. Does anyone have anycommends on this selection or polyurethane glues in general? Mark Cole --part1_c.1327d6e3.27f14ed0_boundary-- from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Mon Mar 26 20:19:06 2001 f2R2J5S10822 Subject: Whitehead Beveler Anyone interested in buying a Whitehead beveler please contact me off list Chuck from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Mar 26 20:29:38 2001 f2R2TbS11396 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:29:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Nyatex replacement - Polyurethane ? --------------6CAE4C74CAB04AA76134C5E7 Mark,Sounds like a reasonable, semi-scientific, testingprocedure. Have you done any heat testing on the glued teststrips? My chief worry with the polyurethane glues concernstheir ability to withstand heat straightening. Admittedly,I've done no testing, though. I've got big plans to build a few more hollow rods(someday), and am thinking seriously of using one of thefoaming pu glues in hopes of providing a semi- solid center. Harry MasjC1@aol.com wrote: Rather than fight this epoxy and tosimplify my work I looked at several polyurethane gluesthat several listmembers have used. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------6CAE4C74CAB04AA76134C5E7 Mark, My chief worry with the polyurethane glues concerns their ability towithstand (someday), and am thinking seriously of using one of the foaming pu gluesin hopes of providing a semi-solid center. MasjC1@aol.com wrote:Rather thanfightthis epoxy and tosimplify my work I looked atseveralpolyurethane glues that several listmembers haveused.-- Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------6CAE4C74CAB04AA76134C5E7-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Mon Mar 26 20:33:24 2001 f2R2XOS11664 Subject: Re: AOL SCAM AGAIN --part1_81.8b60a7f.27f155bc_boundary In a message dated 3/26/2001 12:42:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: AOL members, Here is another scam being presented as an AOL SpecialOffer. When you guys on AOL get these DELETE them and report them to AOL.Bret Bret,Get this! I came SO close to complying with the scam letter. I wrote to AOL's billing dept. and they replied that they didn't send me the message and requested I forward the e-mail to their scam system.I reopened the e-mail and forwarded it to "tosemail1". They very politely wrote me back informing me that they don't handle billing problems!I re-forwarded the letter with an explanation that someone wasimpersonating AOL and collecting folk's credit card numbers and if they looked at the headers they would see it came from some outfit on EarthLink! Apparentlythe letter even fooled the AOL scam detectors!They haven't yet replied. Hmmm?Mike --part1_81.8b60a7f.27f155bc_boundary In a message dated3/26/2001 12:42:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: AOL members, When you guys on AOL get these DELETE them and report them to AOL.Bret Bret,Get this! I came SO close to complying with the scam letter. I wrote toAOL's billing dept. and they replied that they didn't send me the message and requested I forward the e-mail to their scam system.I reopened the e- mail and forwarded it to "tosemail1". They very politely wrote me back informing me that they don't handlebilling problems!I re-forwarded the letter with an explanation that someone wasimpersonating AOL and collecting folk's credit card numbers and if they looked at the headers they would see it came from some outfit on EarthLink!Apparently the letter even fooled the AOL scam detectors!They haven't yet replied. Hmmm?Mike --part1_81.8b60a7f.27f155bc_boundary-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Mon Mar 26 20:49:06 2001 f2R2n5S12324 Subject: Re: Nyatex replacement - Polyurethane ? --part1_6e.8ea4329.27f1597b_boundary In a message dated 3/26/2001 6:04:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,MasjC1@aol.com writes: I even made a mixer our of Mark,Er, uh ... in my "youth" I tried some interesting combinations of "relaxers" but NEVER did I think of trying Demeral and a roofing nail 8^)Mike --part1_6e.8ea4329.27f1597b_boundary In a message dated3/26/2001 6:04:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, MasjC1@aol.com writes: I even made amixer our of my Demeral tool and a roofing nail. Mark,Er, uh ... in my "youth" I tried some interesting combinations of"relaxers" but NEVER did I think of trying Demeral and a roofing nail 8^)Mike --part1_6e.8ea4329.27f1597b_boundary-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Mon Mar 26 20:50:58 2001 f2R2ovS12539 Subject: Re: Nyatex replacement - Polyurethane ? --part1_c5.f22f6d9.27f15a07_boundary All,sorry, I meant to reply off listMike --part1_c5.f22f6d9.27f15a07_boundary All,sorry, I meant to reply off listMike --part1_c5.f22f6d9.27f15a07_boundary-- from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Mon Mar 26 21:13:44 2001 f2R3DhS13419 Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:13:43 -0500 Subject: Setting a depth gauge to Zero Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to think about whatthe dial says but just read the numbers from the display. I'm not wellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in their properusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is to setit on a flat portion of the form and press the button. But as I recallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to it and intime cause inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture or block that can be used. I can'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to a couplepeople they have no idea what I'm talking about. (That probably makes twoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properly andwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Mar 26 21:40:23 2001 f2R3eLS14255 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:39:12 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Subject: RE: the "real" southern gathering ( sorry Harry) Hi Ian,some great information there and if people can't get "permission" from SWMBO, running away from home is always a viable option :)Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: the "real" southern gathering ( sorry Harry) persuade SWMBO or others , you may like to consider some of the followingsites. www.fishnhunt.co.nz , www.purenz.co.nz , www.fishandgame.org.nz ,www.webnz.co.nz/Nelson , www.nz.com/tour/Nelson/ , www.fishnz.co.nz Ian from miangler@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 22:54:41 2001 f2R4seS16293 2001 20:54:41 PST Subject: What torch for flaming cane? I am contemplating the purchase of a torch with whichto flame cane. I understand Wayne C. recommends aBernz-o-matic, but which one. I have his book onbackorder, but my dad has offered to get me one if Ican tell him the correct model. Can anyone give methis information, along with an estimated price? Thanks much, and I look forward to the day when I canactually GIVE some advice. You all have been veryhelpful. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from trippma@mindspring.com Mon Mar 26 23:25:02 2001 f2R5P1S17107 Subject: New taper design program needs your input! Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new taper creation software program.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, and have built only a handful,but have considerable experience in software design and programming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, I would like to solicitinput from the list as to the specifications for the program. I have manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the user interface goes, but need tohear from those who know about taper design best -- list members! Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan on doing complete designbefore writing code, and would like you all to be a part of the designprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that is an option?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate for the list,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp from timklein@qwest.net Tue Mar 27 00:05:31 2001 f2R65US18317 (63.225.240.112) Subject: Re: ferrules J. C. Zimny wrote: Having examined available ferrule materials, I am of the opinion thatnickel/silver alloy 752, the traditional one, is the best availablecompromise material for ferrules. I know I've asked this before, but I never seem to get an answer. Is 752available in rod stock or is it only available as tubing? I've been machining my ferrules from rod stock and the only thing I've beenable to find is alloy 792, also known as leaded nickel silver. 752 isavailable from the same suppliers, but only as tubing. I haven't noticed any performance difference, though I'm worried about how792 will hold up over time. The 792 alloy is only 12% nickel, as opposed tothe 18% nickel content of the 752. The 12% nickel silver is noticeablysofter than the 18%. I've even had to be a bit careful when polishing the12% because it's quite easy to overdo it and affect my dimensions. Once the ferrules are complete though, they seem to be fine. I've yet to seeany sort of stress problems in the 792 ferrules. Is everyone who uses nickel silver rod stock using the 792 alloy? Has anyonehad any problems with their machined ferrules? ---Tim from callrods@teleport.com Tue Mar 27 00:46:42 2001 f2R6kfS19421 Organization: Callaway Rod & Tackle Company Subject: Northwest Rodmakers Gathering 2001 I apologize for the slow response to all of the questions regarding theNorthwest Rodmakers Gathering. My schedule has been its normal hecticpace and I have not had the time to contact people as I should. Here is the update:Paul Hansen is finishing up the registration mailer and it should go outtoward the middle of this week. Marty Karstetter graciously sent me aset of labels for all the people who attended the Corbett LakeGathering. If you were at Corbett Lake you will get a registrationpacket automatically. If you are one of the folks who has contacted mevia e-mail in the last couple of weeks and you included an address, Iwill also send you a packet. For all of the other Rodmakers who areinterested in coming, please get me your addresses so I can get a packetout to you. What is planned: The gathering is set for the 5 and 6 of May. The first day will be heldin Tigard, Oregon at the St. Anthony Church Kelly Center. It's a nicelarge building (tall ceilings) and has a good field for casting. Theprogram will start at 9:00 am and end at 4:00. We are also planning adinner for the group at a local restaurant. The following day is setaside for a fishing trip to private lake in Canby. It is located in apleasant setting with plenty of big fish. The cost is 20.00 per day(40.00 total if you go fishing). Food is the resposibility of theattendees. There is a scheduled lunch break with plenty of restaurantsto choice from and I will try to have snacks and drinks on hand.Information regarding Hotels and RV camping will be in the registrationpacket. If you have any special needs or questions please contact me What is needed: I am still looking for displays and demonstrations. We have put togethera pretty good program but there is still room for more. If anyone hasthe desire to contribute please contact me. I am also looking fortapers, handouts from other gatherings (proper credit will be given) andcatalogs from rod building suppliers to be included in the handoutpacket. If you would like to send material my address isKevin Callaway13345 S.W. Howard DriveTigard, Oregon 97223(503) 590-3120 Thank you from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Mar 27 04:50:19 2001 f2RAoHS22998 f2RAoD065095 Subject: Sean McSharry Sean Since I was talking to you, I formatted my hard disc and forgot to save myaddress book, so would you please get back to me off list. Ditto Trevor Hitchen if you're reading this. Peter from tfbinn@mindspring.com Tue Mar 27 05:19:16 2001 f2RBJFS23575 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Mike,Wayne recommends a BernzOmatic TS4000 hand held torch as his secondchoice.First choice is a Turbo torch used for commercial purposes, but the TS4000works OK. I bought one at the Kazoo Home Depot for about $35.Winston from iank@ts.co.nz Tue Mar 27 05:56:06 2001 f2RBu4S24394 2001 23:51:42 +1200 Subject: Fw: Virus alert - received this afternoon This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0B717.C9D84AA0 People, Yet another ! Ian Subject: Fw: Virus alert - received this afternoon DO NOT OPEN "NEW PICTURES OF FAMILY" It is a virus that willerase your whole "C" drive.It will come to you in the form of =anE-Mailfroma familiarperson. Repeat - a friend sent it to me, but called & warned me before =Iopenedit.He was not so lucky and now he cant even start his computer! Forward this to everyone in your address book. I would ratherreceive this 25 times than not at all. Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus =wasdiscovered recently. If you receive an email called "FAMILYPICTURES,"donot open it.Delete it right away! This virus removes all dynamic linklibraries(.dllfiles) from your computer. Your computer will not be able =tobootup. Graham Andrew A13 DBFO ProjectBeta Building, Ground Floor Right * Tel: + 44 (0) 1372 862056 (Direct line)* Tel: + 44 (0) 1372 865000 (Switchboard)* Fax: + 44 (0) 1372 862616 * Website http://www.Halliburton.com Halliburton Brown & Root LimitedRegistered in England No. 645125, Hill Park Court, SpringfieldDrive,Leatherhead, Surrey KT22 7NL, United Kingdom =**********************************************************************This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential andintended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom =theyare addressed. If you have received this email in error please =notifypostmaster@macenergy.com. This email message has been swept by SOPHOS AV for thepresence of computer viruses. http://www.macenergy.com=********************************************************************** ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0B717.C9D84AA0 People, Yet another ! Ian From:Bernice Babe Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:57 PMSubject: Fw: Virus alert - received this =afternoon From:David = Beverley Price Kostyrko = = ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0B717.C9D84AA0-- from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Mar 27 06:24:31 2001 f2RCOUS24949 "Rodmakers List-serv" Subject: Re: Any lure collectors out there? I have a pretty large collection of old casting/spinning lures, but littletime to work with it. When I got to a collecto meeting, I found I'd thrownaway over $50K worth of lure boxes over the years ! GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Mar 27 06:39:04 2001 f2RCd3S25326 f2RCaXPl013111;Tue, 27 Mar 2001 06:36:33 -0600 Subject: Re: ferrules Since brass makes great ferrules, I got a decent supply of the 12% N.S. bar,and have had no problems.GMA from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Tue Mar 27 08:05:51 2001 f2RE5oS27174 Subject: ...and a bottle of 25 yr old scotch Hello all, Just had to share this story with you. I got a kick out of it. At my Trout Unlimited meeting last night, our secretary/treasurer wasdiscussing the annual fund raiser banquet. As part of the banquet, there isan auction of donated items. He informed us that R.L. Winston has donateda7'9" 4/5 quadrate rod for the auction. Ooos and aahs from a few folks.Very nice, I'm thinking, can't wait to see that. Apparently they only giveaway one rod per year?! The secretary is unsure of the list price of therod, asks someone else what their web site says. I'm guessing around$2,500in my head. "$2,900" is the reply, drawing some gasps and exclamationsfromthe crowd, especially from a gentleman sitting at my table. Apparentlyfeeling a bit defensive, the secretary explains that there are two tips withthe rod. "Two tips," exclaims the shocked gentleman. "At that price, itshould come with two blondes!" All I can say is that it's lucky that I didn't have any soda in my mouth atthe time, else the guy sitting next to me would have gotten a shower. I guess this anecdote says a lot about the understanding (or lack thereof)some (a lot of?) people have about bamboo rods. I had just met thegentleman last night, so I don't know how much fly fishing experience hehas. I can say I probably would have had similar thoughts three years ago.I don't mean to stir up a debate on this topic: I know it's been a hotlydiscussed topic at times on the list. Just thought it was pretty funny. Keith from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 27 08:15:03 2001 f2REF2S27870 Subject: Harbor Freight Lathe --------------0CEE342A159028760B44F6B3 Friends,No endorsement here at all, since I use an Atlas lathe,but there's been a good bit of discussion lately on theHarbor Freight 7x10 mini-lathe. They have it on sale for$369.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684&acct=&cid=&c=1 Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------0CEE342A159028760B44F6B3 Friends, lathe, but there's been a good bit of discussion lately on the Harbor Freight --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------0CEE342A159028760B44F6B3-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 08:47:59 2001 f2RElvS29408 2001 06:47:58 PST Subject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero Tim, Now that's a great question. I think that the easiest way to do it is to get a piece of drill rodof exact, known diameter and use it as a standard. A piece in the1/16 to 1/8" range would be a good choice (I keep two sizes). Through the generosity of the math gods, the height of th rod isexactly 1.5 times the diameter. So, if you put the 1/16" (.0625")rod in your form, it will lie even with the surface of theform when the form is set for a section of .09375 inches. Now youcan adjust your dept guage to indicate -.09375 if it does negativereading or +.006625 if not. Once you manage to mess up a large number of strips, you can savethose and use them to help set the forms by finding ghe measurementonf the strip you want tot set and set the form so it just fits. that can save a lot of time. I'll be intrerested to here other ideas form our more experiencedmembers. --- Tim Wilhelm wrote:Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to thinkabout whatthe dial says but just read the numbers from the display. I'm notwellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in theirproperusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero isto setit on a flat portion of the form and press the button. But as Irecallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to itand intime cause inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture or block that can be used. Ican'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to acouplepeople they have no idea what I'm talking about. (That probablymakes twoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zeroproperly andwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 09:14:31 2001 f2RFEUS00544 2001 07:14:31 PST Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, You are a true masochist. Frank's version of Wayne's program is extremely useful, but there area few improvements that could be made: In the Garrison math, something is missing in conversions ofdifferent lengths and line weights. As rods get longer, they becomeslower, even if you supposedly hold the stresses constant. Samething as line weight is reduced. Somehow, the program needs to befurther steepening the dimension curve as the length is increasedand/or the line weight is reduced. Th Garrison math seems to incoporate the weight of the ferrule, butnot the area of increased stiffness in the calculations. Here is simple one: Frank only allows discrete line weights. If Ithink a rod is atasd heavy for a 5 wgt, I might want to adjust to4.8. May the force be with you. Jerry --- "Mark A. Tripp" wrote:Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new taper creation softwareprogram.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, and have built only ahandful,but have considerable experience in software design andprogramming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, I would like tosolicitinput from the list as to the specifications for the program. Ihave manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the user interface goes,but need tohear from those who know about taper design best -- list members! Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan on doing completedesignbefore writing code, and would like you all to be a part of thedesignprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. Whatwould youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should theGarrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that isan option?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up thelist,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing"stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate forthe list,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll lookin tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from parataper@hotmail.com Tue Mar 27 09:27:47 2001 f2RFRjS01285 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:27:42 -0800 HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:27:41 GMT Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Lathe FILETIME=[76E488D0:01C0B6D2] That price includes shipping! MP From: Harry Boyd Subject: Harbor Freight LatheDate: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:13:30 -0600 Friends,No endorsement here at all, since I use an Atlas lathe,but there's been a good bit of discussion lately on theHarbor Freight 7x10 mini-lathe. They have it on sale for$369.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684&acct=&cid=&c=1 Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from cathcreek@hotmail.com Tue Mar 27 09:56:00 2001 f2RFtxS02729 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:55:55 -0800 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:55:55 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Harbor Freight Lathe FILETIME=[683F9D70:01C0B6D6] Just a note. They are backordered for at least a month. I ordered the Grizzley 7 x 12 a little less than a week ago and it arrived yesterday. The tool kit I ordered from HF a week earlier that supposedly shipped on the 16th has yet to arrive. BTW, the 7 X 12 looks great-just dont have any cuting bits yet to do anything with it. Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: "mark petrie" Subject: Re: Harbor Freight LatheDate: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:27:41 -0600 That price includes shipping! MP From: Harry Boyd Subject: Harbor Freight LatheDate: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:13:30 -0600 Friends,No endorsement here at all, since I use an Atlas lathe,but there's been a good bit of discussion lately on theHarbor Freight 7x10 mini-lathe. They have it on sale for$369.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684&acct=&cid=&c=1 Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Mar 27 10:39:11 2001 f2RGdAS04738 Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Lathe They also have a price guarantee. If you find a cheaper price, anywhere,within a year, they will refund the difference. This also means their ownsales. I'v tested this and they do. They often have the lathe on sale for&329.xx. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com fbcwin@3g.quik.com wrote: Friends,No endorsement here at all, since I use an Atlaslathe, but there's been a good bit of discussion lately on the Harbor Freight7x10 mini-lathe. They have it on sale for $369.99http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684&acct=&cid=&c=1Harry--Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ OurChurch from thogan@rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 27 11:11:17 2001 f2RHBGS06078 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark -Great idea.I find most of the software available for rod design fairly sloppy wrt themath.I believe we don't need curves, but I want to see the dynamics of the flyrod. That is possible I know. If you want to take this offline, then perhapsthat is the best place for further discussions. Thankstaylor ----- Original Message ----- Subject: New taper design program needs your input! Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new taper creation softwareprogram.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, and have built only a handful,but have considerable experience in software design and programming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, I would like to solicitinput from the list as to the specifications for the program. I have manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the user interface goes, but needtohear from those who know about taper design best -- list members! Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan on doing complete designbefore writing code, and would like you all to be a part of the designprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that is anoption?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate for thelist,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp from hartzell@easystreet.com Tue Mar 27 12:59:19 2001 f2RIxIS10706 f2RIxGf14462; Subject: Re: ferrules Tim:I have been using the 12% leaded NS for thirty years and have had notrouble with it. I usually make the wall thickness one or two thousandthsmoreto make up for the loss of tensile strength from the 18% NS.Ed Hartze;; Tim Klein wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Having examined available ferrule materials, I am of the opinion thatnickel/silver alloy 752, the traditional one, is the best availablecompromise material for ferrules. I know I've asked this before, but I never seem to get an answer. Is 752available in rod stock or is it only available as tubing? I've been machining my ferrules from rod stock and the only thing I've beenable to find is alloy 792, also known as leaded nickel silver. 752 isavailable from the same suppliers, but only as tubing. I haven't noticed any performance difference, though I'm worried abouthow792 will hold up over time. The 792 alloy is only 12% nickel, as opposed tothe 18% nickel content of the 752. The 12% nickel silver is noticeablysofter than the 18%. I've even had to be a bit careful when polishing the12% because it's quite easy to overdo it and affect my dimensions. Once the ferrules are complete though, they seem to be fine. I've yet toseeany sort of stress problems in the 792 ferrules. Is everyone who uses nickel silver rod stock using the 792 alloy? Hasanyonehad any problems with their machined ferrules? ---Tim from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 13:26:53 2001 f2RJQqS11755 2001 11:26:53 PST Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? i got mine from walmart for about six bucks. timothy --- Mike Janik wrote:I am contemplating the purchase of a torch withwhichto flame cane. I understand Wayne C. recommends aBernz-o-matic, but which one. I have his book onbackorder, but my dad has offered to get me one if Ican tell him the correct model. Can anyone give methis information, along with an estimated price? Thanks much, and I look forward to the day when Icanactually GIVE some advice. You all have been veryhelpful. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html"Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from homeydklown@att.net Tue Mar 27 13:39:33 2001 f2RJdXS12330 ;Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:39:29 +0000 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:39:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Fw: Virus alert - received this afternoon I just checked the McAffee site. They list it as a hoax.People, Yet another ! Ian----- Original Message ----- From: Bernice Babe Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:57 PMSubject: Fw: Virus alert - received this afternoon ----- Original Message ----- From: David Kostyrko & Beverley Price Kostyrko DO NOT OPEN "NEW PICTURES OF FAMILY" It is a virus that willerase your whole "C" drive.It will come to you in the form of anE-Mailfroma familiarperson. Repeat - a friend sent it to me, but called & warned me before Iopenedit.He was not so lucky and now he cant even start his computer! Forward this to everyone in your address book. I would ratherreceive this 25 times than not at all. Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus wasdiscovered recently. If you receive an email called "FAMILYPICTURES,"donot open it.Delete it right away! This virus removes all dynamic linklibraries(.dllfiles) from your computer. Your computer will not be able tobootup. Graham Andrew A13 DBFO ProjectBeta Building, Ground Floor Right * Tel: + 44 (0) 1372 862056 (Direct line)* Tel: + 44 (0) 1372 865000 (Switchboard)* Fax: + 44 (0) 1372 862616 * Website http://www.Halliburton.com Halliburton Brown & Root LimitedRegistered in England No. 645125, Hill Park Court, SpringfieldDrive,Leatherhead, Surrey KT22 7NL, United Kingdom **********************************************************************This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential andintended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyare addressed. If you have received this email in error please notifypostmaster@macenergy.com. This email message has been swept by SOPHOS AV for thepresence of computer viruses. http://www.macenergy.com ********************************************************************** from dblanken@rica.net Tue Mar 27 15:34:41 2001 f2RLYeS17210 0000 ,"and Collecting" Subject: Re: New taper design... Mark, sounds like labor in the truest since. from my limited experience, Iwould give these observations early on... rodmakers are a demanding lot andyou're likely to be punished for your kindness!! As you know, this is abunch of highly opinionated and very vocal people, all with different levelsof commitment and experience. As for input, you couldn't get much better. from the satisfaction end, it could be a nightmare for you. I, for one,hope that you are successful and that you prosper mightily from theexperience. Let us know how you choose to proceed, on- or off- linecomments.David "Blessed are they who have nothing to say, and who cannot be persuaded tosay it." -- James Russell from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Mar 27 15:49:47 2001 f2RLnkS18040 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, I guess there are two issues, the user interface and the theory/science/math behind the calculations. I have never seen a mathematical model of a flyrod in action thatreally captured what happens when we cast. There was an interesting discussion of this on this list in April 1996. One participant had a PhD in computational physics. He pointed out a host of deficiencies in Garrison's model. Nevertheless, lots of us use stress curves to design and compare rods. Rods of similar lengths with similar stresscurves seem to cast alike. Maybe there is a better tool out there that isn't well known. In terms of user interface, I'd like these 3 features (provided youwork with Garrison's model):1. Be able to draw a stress curve freehand and derive the rod from it.2. Be able to convert between hex, penta and quad rods by equivalentcross section (easy) OR equivalent stress curve (more difficult).3. Be able to blend (average) two or more stress curves together andderive a rod from it. Good luck on your quest.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Mark A. Tripp wrote: Fellow bamboo junkies: ... So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that is anoption?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate for the list,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 15:52:01 2001 f2RLq0S18286 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson 6611....again Hi all,I am ready to mount guides on the 6611 I'm building for my father-in- law's60th birthday. Does anyone have the original guide spacing if not, I'll just gowithwhat Hexrod or my standard say as I will not have time to mess with movingguidesaround and test casting.Also I was thinking of putting one more dip coat on after wrapping andvarnishing the guides, anyone have any tips on this? I usually just dip thenwrap.BTW the rattan grip came out awesome! Anyone who hasn't tried itshould.Thanks Tony and others that gave me tips on Rattan. I flamed it(over cookedthe firstone) then wrapped in the groove with Pearsall's Java Brown silk, it looks cool!Can't wait to see the father in laws face! The rod is stunning. Just hopemyguides arrive tomorrow!Shawn from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 15:56:17 2001 f2RLuGS18601 2001 13:56:16 PST Subject: Rod care insructions or illustrations Here I am with hat in hand. I am sending off rods to non-family forthe first time tomorrow (I'm greedy) and realized that I don't haveany written rod care instructions. If anybody has some they can share, I would appreciate it. Anelectronic version would be great. Thanks Jerry __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from jojo@ipa.net Tue Mar 27 16:03:16 2001 f2RM3FS19044 Subject: Re: Virus alert - received this afternoon This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C0B6D5.B6B3CD60 Yep, it's a hoax. People, Yet another ! Ian ----- > > > > > DO NOT OPEN "NEW PICTURES OF FAMILY" It is a virus =that willerase your whole "C" drive. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C0B6D5.B6B3CD60 hoax. Ian Kearney= People, Yet another ! Ian your whole "C" drive. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C0B6D5.B6B3CD60-- from jojo@ipa.net Tue Mar 27 16:03:16 2001 f2RM3FS19043 Subject: Re: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C0B6D2.FE32BFA0 John, Post the taper. Please? M-D Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:11 AMSubject: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 Anyone have a Hardy like this one? Mine is a #E68189 (May 1949; tks Rich). Needs a total redo. Not sure =if its worth it. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C0B6D2.FE32BFA0 John, Please? M-D ----- Original Message ----- Griffin Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001= AMSubject: Hardy Palonkona "The = Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 Anyone have a Hardy like this one? Mine is a #E68189 (May 1949; tks Rich). Needs a total redo. Not = its worth it. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C0B6D2.FE32BFA0-- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Mar 27 16:11:40 2001 f2RMBcS19675 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:11:16 -0500 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! HI Mark:You should contact Claude F. about the 4 and 5 sided rods. He sent me a fantastic Excel spreadsheet that does it all. Hope he lets you get a peek. I have used it with much success.Bob At 03:49 PM 3/27/2001 -0600, Frank Stetzer wrote:Mark, I guess there are two issues, the user interface and thetheory/science/math behind the calculations. I have never seen a mathematical model of a flyrod in action thatreally captured what happens when we cast. There was an interestingdiscussion of this on this list in April 1996. One participant had aPhD in computational physics. He pointed out a host of deficienciesin Garrison's model. Nevertheless, lots of us use stress curves todesign and compare rods. Rods of similar lengths with similar stresscurves seem to cast alike. Maybe there is a better tool out therethat isn't well known. In terms of user interface, I'd like these 3 features (provided youwork with Garrison's model):1. Be able to draw a stress curve freehand and derive the rod from it.2. Be able to convert between hex, penta and quad rods by equivalentcross section (easy) OR equivalent stress curve (more difficult).3. Be able to blend (average) two or more stress curves together andderive a rod from it. Good luck on your quest.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Mark A. Tripp wrote: Fellow bamboo junkies: ... So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. What wouldyoulike to see? What specific features should it have? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that is an option?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate for the list,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Mar 27 16:33:54 2001 f2RMXrS20806 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! I would love to see it work on a Mac...........Good luck,danny from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 16:36:13 2001 f2RMaBS21035 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:19:35 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Lathe --------------7BACD7BBC65932AD2B4F26B8 Is the Harbor Freight the same as Craftex?? It looks awfully close to theCraftexlathe I was looking at here in Canada.Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,No endorsement here at all, since I use an Atlas lathe, but there's been agoodbit of discussion lately on the Harbor Freight 7x10 mini-lathe. They have itonsale for $369.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684&acct=&cid=&c=1 Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------7BACD7BBC65932AD2B4F26B8 Is the Harbor Freight the same as Craftex?? It looks awfully close to theCraftex lathe I was looking at here in Canada. ShawnHarry Boyd wrote:Friends, lathe, but there's been a good bit of discussion lately on the Harbor Freight --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Bamboo Rods Our Church --------------7BACD7BBC65932AD2B4F26B8-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 16:42:38 2001 f2RMgbS21393 2001 14:42:38 PST Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! why!? why take this off line? this is a learningdevice. i'm intrested in hearing about it. i thinkthis is an appropriate place. maybe i'm not gettingthe point or something. how are you looking at thetapers and comparing them? timothy --- taylor hogan wrote:Mark -Great idea.I find most of the software available for rod designfairly sloppy wrt themath.I believe we don't need curves, but I want to seethe dynamics of the flyrod. That is possible I know. If you want to takethis offline, then perhapsthat is the best place for further discussions. Thankstaylor ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark A. Tripp" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 12:21 AMSubject: New taper design program needs your input! Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new tapercreation software program.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, andhave built only a handful,but have considerable experience in softwaredesign and programming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, Iwould like to solicitinput from the list as to the specifications forthe program. I have manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the userinterface goes, but needtohear from those who know about taper design best-- list members! Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan ondoing complete designbefore writing code, and would like you all to bea part of the designprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from theground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should ithave? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there othermethodology that is anoption?You get the idea! I don't know if it isappropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group getsto discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it isinappropriate for thelist,please email me directly. If there is enoughinterest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some suchservice. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from thogan@rochester.rr.com Tue Mar 27 17:43:27 2001 f2RNhRS23717 f2RNerb15989 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Ok I'll bite.I think the stress curves presented by the current best taper designprograms are adequate at comparing one similar style rod to another. I can'tdetermine from the stress curve what it is going to feel like. Afterstudying the physics and looking at the taper designs program, I was leftwith a feeling that these programs are pretty sloppy and leave much to bedesired. There is a web site for a company that deals in visual dynamics of objects.I can find this once again if anyone is interested. One of there examples isa very simplified version of a fly rod. You can use a joy stick to cast, andsee how the rod reacts. That got me thinking, that feedback was far moreuseful than stress curves. They use a series of springs to model the actionof a fly rod. There have been several papers presented in some fairly prestigious physicsmagazines on the dynamics of fly rod. I encourage you to keep digging, but in the end I would like to see asimulated view of the fly rod itself, including things like how the rodreacts to different line weights. I have thought about doing this myself onoccasion, but building fly rods and seeing how they act is taking up mytime. I have built the last three rods very much alike and changing thetaper slightly each time. This has been an empirical learning experience forme. Actually building two rods exactly the same would be an interestingexperiment. I have found the best test of fly rod actions is somewhat likethe Orvis test, that is to hang a weight from the tip and graph thedeflection. Letting the fly rod go at a deflected point and counting thecycles per second is also interesting.God I just love this stuff. Best of LuckTaylor ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! why!? why take this off line? this is a learningdevice. i'm intrested in hearing about it. i thinkthis is an appropriate place. maybe i'm not gettingthe point or something. how are you looking at thetapers and comparing them? timothy --- taylor hogan wrote:Mark -Great idea.I find most of the software available for rod designfairly sloppy wrt themath.I believe we don't need curves, but I want to seethe dynamics of the flyrod. That is possible I know. If you want to takethis offline, then perhapsthat is the best place for further discussions. Thankstaylor ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark A. Tripp" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 12:21 AMSubject: New taper design program needs your input! Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new tapercreation software program.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, andhave built only a handful,but have considerable experience in softwaredesign and programming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, Iwould like to solicitinput from the list as to the specifications forthe program. I have manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the userinterface goes, but needtohear from those who know about taper design best-- list members! Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan ondoing complete designbefore writing code, and would like you all to bea part of the designprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from theground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should ithave? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there othermethodology that is anoption?You get the idea! I don't know if it isappropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group getsto discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it isinappropriate for thelist,please email me directly. If there is enoughinterest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some suchservice. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 27 18:00:54 2001 f2S00rS24400 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:00:47 -0800 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, and all others,I think it might be well worth your while to read the new book on thePhysics of Fly rods. I think the author is Don Miller, but don't hold me tothat. Bob Petti reviewed it on www.globalflyfisher.com. Harry taylor hogan wrote: Ok I'll bite.I think the stress curves presented by the current best taper designprograms are adequate at comparing one similar style rod to another.- - Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 27 18:06:29 2001 f2S06NS24729 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! I would love to see a program that let me see how a fly rod would react tocasting and the weight of a fly line before I built it. A real computersimulation instead of a graph of dimensions or moments. The graphs havereal value, but these boxes we pay so much for are probably able to dobetter. Brian from GriffinJohn@msn.com Tue Mar 27 18:08:03 2001 f2S083S24946 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:07:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1: Post taper =_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B6F1.FEB4A8C0" FILETIME=[25A1E1E0:01C0B71B] ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B6F1.FEB4A8C0 Will do! I'll strip the gloppy varnish off first, but will get it posted in a coup=le of days. BTW, Ray Gould's excellent book has some 2 piece Hardy tapers listed (pg=35). Tks, John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 John, Post the taper. Please? M-D Subject: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 Anyone have a Hardy like this one? Mine is a #E68189 (May 1949; tks Rich). Needs a total redo. Not sure if i=ts worth it.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at=http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B6F1.FEB4A8C0 rnish off first, but will get it posted in a couple of days. &= pi= =John ----- Original Message ---= 1/2' 3/1 J= the taper= ----- Original Message ----- From: John= makers List Sent:Monda=y, March 26, 2001 11:11 AM Subje=ct: Hardy Palonkona "The Fairchild" 8 1/2' 3/1 = Mine=is a #E68189 (May 1949; tks Rich). Needs a total redo. Not sure if its w= Get yourFREE downlo=ad of MSN Explorer at http://explorer=.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C0B6F1.FEB4A8C0-- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Mar 27 18:15:03 2001 f2S0F1S25293 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:14:24 -0500 Subject: April 2001 Power Fibers Hi:The April 2001 issue of Power Fibers is now available at http://www.powerfibers.comYes, it is a few days early, but with my wife pushing 38 weeks pregnant, I figured I had better get this baby out of the way before the real one arrives.I wish to offer my most humble thanks to all the contributors for making this happen, and I would like to thank you the reader for making this so worthwhile.Enjoy,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from channer@frontier.net Tue Mar 27 18:16:14 2001 f2S0GDS25439 Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Lathe Shawn;The same manufacturer in China makes that lathe for a bunch of differentcompanies, they just change the paint job and the label. If you read upon the HF 7x10, you will discover that it is really only 8" betweencenters, the Grizzly 7x12 is more like a 7x14, it has an actual 12"between centers.John Shawn Pineo wrote: Is the Harbor Freight the same as Craftex?? It looks awfully close tothe Craftex lathe I was looking at here in Canada. Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,No endorsement here at all, since I use an Atlas lathe, butthere's been a good bit of discussion lately on the Harbor Freight7x10 mini-lathe. They have it on sale for $369.99 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684&acct=&cid=&c=1 Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Mar 27 18:18:44 2001 f2S0IhS25699 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:18:24 -0500 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Several years back, I recall that Winston (Twin Bridges or Twin Blondes) used to supply such a weight with their rod displays. When hung off the tip top you could see the flex rather easily. I was pretty shocked at how stiff some of the higher end rods were. An interesting concept. It definitely says more than what my friend Randy calls "The K-Mart wiggle."Best regards,Bob I have found the best test of fly rod actions is somewhat likethe Orvis test, that is to hang a weight from the tip and graph thedeflection. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from johnsabina@home.com Tue Mar 27 18:25:40 2001 f2S0PdS26035 ;Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:25:35 -0800 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Mike: Wayne uses a commercial plumbing torch. The secret is to have plenty ofoutput. I bought his recommended Bernzomatic at Home Depot. It is modelnumber TS7000 and cost $52.77. I use mine with map gas and it works well.You will be disappointed if you buy less torch. JJS----- Original Message ----- Subject: What torch for flaming cane? I am contemplating the purchase of a torch with whichto flame cane. I understand Wayne C. recommends aBernz-o-matic, but which one. I have his book onbackorder, but my dad has offered to get me one if Ican tell him the correct model. Can anyone give methis information, along with an estimated price?Thanks much, and I look forward to the day when I canactually GIVE some advice. You all have been veryhelpful. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from johnsabina@home.com Tue Mar 27 18:35:22 2001 f2S0ZMS26581 ;Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:35:18 -0800 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! There is nothing wrong with Garrison's math, it is his recommendation ofwhat a "good" rod should feel like that you do not agree with. As to notaccounting for the extra stiffness of the ferrules, there is nothing in abending stress calculation that relates to stiffness. JJS----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, You are a true masochist. Frank's version of Wayne's program is extremely useful, but there area few improvements that could be made: In the Garrison math, something is missing in conversions ofdifferent lengths and line weights. As rods get longer, they becomeslower, even if you supposedly hold the stresses constant. Samething as line weight is reduced. Somehow, the program needs to befurther steepening the dimension curve as the length is increasedand/or the line weight is reduced. Th Garrison math seems to incoporate the weight of the ferrule, butnot the area of increased stiffness in the calculations. Here is simple one: Frank only allows discrete line weights. If Ithink a rod is atasd heavy for a 5 wgt, I might want to adjust to4.8. May the force be with you. Jerry --- "Mark A. Tripp" wrote:Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new taper creation softwareprogram.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, and have built only ahandful,but have considerable experience in software design andprogramming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, I would like tosolicitinput from the list as to the specifications for the program. Ihave manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the user interface goes,but need tohear from those who know about taper design best -- list members!Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan on doing completedesignbefore writing code, and would like you all to be a part of thedesignprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. Whatwould youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should theGarrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that isan option?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up thelist,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing"stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate forthe list,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll lookin tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from johnsabina@home.com Tue Mar 27 18:57:47 2001 f2S0vgS27302 ;Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:57:38 -0800 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark: I find Hex Rod based on the Garrison math very useful but would like to seesome refinements. These would include: 1. User inputs to tables of ferrule sizes and weights. (Necessary if youwant to use a size that is not available.) 2. User inputs as to rod length and measurement increments. (Would allowauser to create longer rods and use different increments like one inch or sixinch readings. Should also let you input the dimension at 52.3 if that isthe number that you have.) 3. User specified full scales on the stress curves. (This would allowdirect comparison by overlaying curves of different rods.) 4. User specified ability to show multiple curves on the same graph likethree different line weights or three different casting lengths for the samerod. Would also like to have color available for curves. 5. User specified labelling on the graphs (Makes a better archive byletting me label the graphs.) 6. A curve smoothing routine that makes the stress curves look less likeplots of the Dow Jones average. 7. The ability to convert 0 is the tip rod data to 0 is the butt rod dataand vice versa. (This is presently a real pain the a??.) 8. Better error handling routines. (Hex Rod is somewhat quirky.) I like Hex Rod, but it could use some clean-up. JJS----- Original Message ----- Subject: New taper design program needs your input! Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new taper creation softwareprogram.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, and have built only a handful,but have considerable experience in software design and programming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, I would like to solicitinput from the list as to the specifications for the program. I have manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the user interface goes, but needtohear from those who know about taper design best -- list members! Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan on doing complete designbefore writing code, and would like you all to be a part of the designprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that is anoption?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate for thelist,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Mar 27 19:57:54 2001 f2S1vrS28511 0000 (63.228.47.151) Subject: PU glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01C0B6F7.1A993740 List has been quiet on heat straightening blanks glued up with PU Glue. =Whats the latest?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01C0B6F7.1A993740 List has been quiet on heat = glued up with PU Glue. Whats the latest?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01C0B6F7.1A993740-- from goodaple@tcac.net Tue Mar 27 20:30:21 2001 f2S2ULS29360 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) 0600 Subject: ATTN; Sowbug roundup attendees Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0B6FD.1EFDBB20 Any of the guys that are going to the roundup that might be interested =in some beautiful cherry burl contact me off list. I have lots. I just =daon't want to overload the truck. Sorry if this was not appropriate. =Thanks, Randall G. PS. I'm heading out in the morning. See ya'll over =thar. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0B6FD.1EFDBB20 Any of the guys that are going to the = might be interested in some beautiful cherry burl contact me off list. I = See ya'll over thar. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0B6FD.1EFDBB20-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 27 21:00:42 2001 f2S30fS00311 Subject: flintlock guns/not bamboo rod related/delete if not interested List, I know this has nothing to do with rods but some of you guys have asked me to see some of my guns so here is a lefthanded flintlock I am building for a list member. http://members.aol.com/zoanimus/guns.jpg and alsohttp://members.aol.com/zoanimus/guns2.jpg. If anyone wants to see more Iam posting more pictures soon.Bret from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Mar 27 21:51:23 2001 f2S3pMS01712 Subject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero --part1_70.902ebe2.27f2b9a9_boundary In a message dated 3/26/2001 7:14:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, twilhelm@occasionalrod.com writes: Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to think aboutwhatthe dial says but just read the numbers from the display. I'm not wellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in their properusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is to setit on a flat portion of the form and press the button. But as I recallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to it and intime cause inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture or block that can be used. I can'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to a couplepeople they have no idea what I'm talking about. (That probably makes twoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properly andwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm Tim,You'll find a lot of good advise from list members on how to zero out your depth gauge and many have probably already replied off list. You can have a machinist friend mill a 60* groove in a piece of bar stock to a known depth say .0125 or something just as long as you know what thedepth actually is.Set YOUR gauge to the known depth of the milled gauge so the shoulders of your 60* point is resting on the sides of the milled groove in the gauge rather than the point resting on the flats of your forms.If all else fails, set your gauge to the flat of your forms and zero it out.Hope this helps a little,Mike --part1_70.902ebe2.27f2b9a9_boundary In a message dated3/26/2001 7:14:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, twilhelm@occasionalrod.com writes: Got my depthgauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to think about what wellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in their properusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is toset recallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to it andintime cause inaccurate readings. can'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to a couple makes twoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properlyandwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm Tim,You'll find a lot of good advise from list members on how to zero outyour depth gauge and many have probably already replied off list. You can have a machinist friend mill a 60* groove in a piece of barstock to a known depth say .0125 or something just as long as you know whatthe depth actually is.Set YOUR gauge to the known depth of the milled gauge so theshoulders of your 60* point is resting on the sides of the milled groove in the gauge rather than the point resting on the flats of your forms.If all else fails, set your gauge to the flat of your forms and zero it out.Hope this helps a little,Mike --part1_70.902ebe2.27f2b9a9_boundary-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Mar 27 22:12:23 2001 f2S4CMS02396 Subject: Re: flintlock guns/not bamboo rod related/delete if not interested --part1_5b.13d66b64.27f2be9a_boundary In a message dated 3/27/2001 7:02:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: List, I know this has nothing to do with rods but some of you guys have asked me to see some of my guns so here is a lefthanded flintlock I am building a list member. http://members.aol.com/zoanimus/guns.jpg and alsohttp://members.aol.com/zoanimus/guns2.jpg. If anyone wants to seemore I am posting more pictures soon. Damn Bret,Those are FINE!Mike --part1_5b.13d66b64.27f2be9a_boundary In a message dated3/27/2001 7:02:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: List, you guys have asked me to see some of my guns so here is a lefthanded flintlock I ambuilding also to see more I am posting more pictures soon.Bret Damn Bret,Those are FINE!Mike --part1_5b.13d66b64.27f2be9a_boundary-- from martinj@aa.net Tue Mar 27 22:41:41 2001 f2S4feS03209 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:41:25 -0800 Subject: RE: Setting a depth gauge to Zero This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0B6FE.49B80900 Without getting into a lot of detail here, I added about .004 to the figureat zero to make up for the crushed point. Now you may ask. how do you knowthe point is crushed? Well I don't but to get an absolute point to the last.0001 I think is pretty unlikely. I think it is just as likely that duringthe machining of the 60 degree point, the point fell off or crumbled. In mycase once the tip was minus a few thou it seemed to stabilize. You could usethe drill bit method which I did or you could plane a section of bamboo to aperfect angle, and then set a straight edge across the top of the form. Holdit down tightly, and slide the bamboo up the form until it is stopped by thestraight edge. Mark this spot and then measure the bamboo. Then set yourindicator on this exact spot and set it to the measurement of the bamboo.Bottom line, this might be one of the best measurement methods. I have notdone this but am thinking of doing this. It is very similar to the methodGarrison used. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Troutgetter@aol.comSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero In a message dated 3/26/2001 7:14:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,twilhelm@occasionalrod.com writes: Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to think aboutwhatthe dial says but just read the numbers from the display. I'm not wellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in their properusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is tosetit on a flat portion of the form and press the button. But as I recallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to it andintime cause inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture or block that can be used. Ican'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to acouplepeople they have no idea what I'm talking about. (That probably makestwoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properlyandwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm Tim,You'll find a lot of good advise from list members on how to zero out yourdepth gauge and many have probably already replied off list. You can have a machinist friend mill a 60* groove in a piece of bar stocktoa known depth say .0125 or something just as long as you know what thedepthactually is.Set YOUR gauge to the known depth of the milled gauge so the shoulders ofyour 60* point is resting on the sides of the milled groove in the gaugerather than the point resting on the flats of your forms.If all else fails, set your gauge to the flat of your forms and zero itout.Hope this helps a little,Mike ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0B6FE.49B80900 Without getting into a lot of detail here, I added about .004 = figure at zero to make up for the crushed point. Now you may ask. how do = know the point is crushed? Well I don't but to get an absolute point to = .0001 I think is pretty unlikely. I think it is just as likely that = machining of the 60 degree point, the point fell off or crumbled. In my = once the tip was minus a few thou it seemed to stabilize. You could use = drill bit method which I did or you could plane a section of bamboo to a = angle, and then set a straight edge across the top of the form. Hold it = tightly, and slide the bamboo up the form until it is stopped by the = edge. Mark this spot and then measure the bamboo. Then set your = this exact spot and set it to the measurement of the bamboo. Bottom = might be one of the best measurement methods. I have not done this but = used. Martin= Troutgetter@aol.comSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Setting a depth = twilhelm@occasionalrod.com writes: Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have = think about what the dial says but just read the numbers from = little guidance in their proper usage. Certainly at face = the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is to set it on a flat = point on a surface like that can cause damage to it and in time = inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture = have and after talking to a couple people they have no idea what = = question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properly = what sort of procedure do you use to get accurate Thanks in advance. Tim Wilhelm = You'll find a lot of good advise from list members on how to zero = depth gauge and many have probably already replied off list. = can have a machinist friend mill a 60* groove in a piece of bar stock = known depth say .0125 or something just as long as you know what the = actually is. Set YOUR gauge to the known depth of the milled = the shoulders of your 60* point is resting on the sides of the = groove in the gauge rather than the point resting on the flats of = forms. If all else fails, set your gauge to the flat of your forms = ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C0B6FE.49B80900-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Mar 27 22:52:21 2001 f2S4qKS03665 , Subject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero I just checked a friend's new dial indicator point and found it short by004", and its never been used. I have used the bamboo slip method in the past, but you still run the riskthat the bamboo apex will "crush" slightly the first time you measure it. The most accurate method of measuring is with a depth micrometer overroundpins. ---------- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Setting a depth gauge to Zero Without getting into a lot of detail here, I added about .004 to the figureat zero to make up for the crushed point. Now you may ask. how do you knowthe point is crushed? Well I don't but to get an absolute point to the last.0001 I think is pretty unlikely. I think it is just as likely that duringthe machining of the 60 degree point, the point fell off or crumbled. In mycase once the tip was minus a few thou it seemed to stabilize. You couldusethe drill bit method which I did or you could plane a section of bamboo toaperfect angle, and then set a straight edge across the top of the form.Holdit down tightly, and slide the bamboo up the form until it is stopped bythestraight edge. Mark this spot and then measure the bamboo. Then set yourindicator on this exact spot and set it to the measurement of the bamboo.Bottom line, this might be one of the best measurement methods. I have notdone this but am thinking of doing this. It is very similar to the methodGarrison used. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Troutgetter@aol.comSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero In a message dated 3/26/2001 7:14:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,twilhelm@occasionalrod.com writes: Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to think aboutwhatthe dial says but just read the numbers from the display. I'm not wellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in theirproperusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is tosetit on a flat portion of the form and press the button. But as I recallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to it andintime cause inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture or block that can be used. Ican'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to acouplepeople they have no idea what I'm talking about. (That probably makestwoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properlyandwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm Tim,You'll find a lot of good advise from list members on how to zero outyourdepth gauge and many have probably already replied off list. You can have a machinist friend mill a 60* groove in a piece of bar stocktoa known depth say .0125 or something just as long as you know what thedepthactually is.Set YOUR gauge to the known depth of the milled gauge so the shoulders ofyour 60* point is resting on the sides of the milled groove in the gaugerather than the point resting on the flats of your forms.If all else fails, set your gauge to the flat of your forms and zero itout.Hope this helps a little,Mike from martinj@aa.net Tue Mar 27 23:33:09 2001 f2S5X8S04856 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:33:04 -0800 , Subject: RE: Setting a depth gauge to Zero That's what I did, but I have not really found the crushing of the apex tobe a real problem. At least I don't think I have a problem...I suppose thatwhat I should do is to add maybe .003 or so when I measure bamboo with mycaliper. What I really need to do is to find someone with a laser measuringdevice so I can really "see" just how far off I am in my measuring. I knowthis sounds like I am saying this "tongue in cheek", and in some ways I am,but if I could fine a person with a laser you can bet your sweet cookie Iwould beat a path to their door step to do a little measuring... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero I just checked a friend's new dial indicator point and found it short by004", and its never been used.I have used the bamboo slip method in the past, but you still run the riskthat the bamboo apex will "crush" slightly the first time you measure it.The most accurate method of measuring is with a depth micrometer overroundpins. ---------- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Setting a depth gauge to Zero Without getting into a lot of detail here, I added about .004 to the figureat zero to make up for the crushed point. Now you may ask. how do you knowthe point is crushed? Well I don't but to get an absolute point to the last.0001 I think is pretty unlikely. I think it is just as likely that duringthe machining of the 60 degree point, the point fell off or crumbled. In mycase once the tip was minus a few thou it seemed to stabilize. You couldusethe drill bit method which I did or you could plane a section of bamboo toaperfect angle, and then set a straight edge across the top of the form.Holdit down tightly, and slide the bamboo up the form until it is stopped bythestraight edge. Mark this spot and then measure the bamboo. Then set yourindicator on this exact spot and set it to the measurement of the bamboo.Bottom line, this might be one of the best measurement methods. I have notdone this but am thinking of doing this. It is very similar to the methodGarrison used. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Troutgetter@aol.comSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero In a message dated 3/26/2001 7:14:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,twilhelm@occasionalrod.com writes: Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to think aboutwhatthe dial says but just read the numbers from the display. I'm not wellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in theirproperusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is tosetit on a flat portion of the form and press the button. But as I recallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to it andintime cause inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture or block that can be used. Ican'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to acouplepeople they have no idea what I'm talking about. (That probably makestwoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properlyandwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm Tim,You'll find a lot of good advise from list members on how to zero outyourdepth gauge and many have probably already replied off list. You can have a machinist friend mill a 60* groove in a piece of bar stocktoa known depth say .0125 or something just as long as you know what thedepthactually is.Set YOUR gauge to the known depth of the milled gauge so the shoulders ofyour 60* point is resting on the sides of the milled groove in the gaugerather than the point resting on the flats of your forms.If all else fails, set your gauge to the flat of your forms and zero itout.Hope this helps a little,Mike from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 00:03:31 2001 f2S63US05631 WAA11952 Subject: Old Question, New Question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B70B.0484A8E0 Hi everyone, I split my culm in half and since I am making a nodeless I removed the =nodes with a carbide tip cross cut saw. It cut like butter with no =splintering. Now I have read the archives and that is the problem. The =old question of heat treatment. I put my cane halves into my oven. Temp =was set with digital thermometer that was calibrated to boiling water =(212). Heat treated to 375 for 7 minutes and rotated 1/2 way. No color =change observed. Now for my New Question " What is the current concesus = guidelines. If you are happy with your method please share it with me. I =would like to know what is a good method of getting different tones in =the cane. And also a technique that helps resisting sets in the tip. Sorry to bring the subject back up, but somebody had to do it. Thanks, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B70B.0484A8E0 Hi everyone, I split my culm in half and since I am = nodeless I removed the nodes with a carbide tip cross cut saw. It cut = butter with no splintering. Now I have read the archives and that is the = problem. The old question of heat treatment. I put my cane halves into = Temp was set with digital thermometer that was calibrated to boiling = (212). Heat treated to 375 for 7 minutes and rotated 1/2 way. No color = observed. Now for my New Question " What is the current concesus for = If you are happy with your method please share it with me. I would like = what is a good method of getting different tones in the cane. And also a = technique that helps resisting sets in the tip. Sorry to bring the subject back up, but= had to do it. Thanks, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B70B.0484A8E0-- from stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed Mar 28 01:10:09 2001 f2S7A8S07108 Subject: Power sharpener Goodmorning everybody, I am seriously thinking about buying a power sharpener (Tormek 1204)that comes with a ceramic "super grind" disc and a leather strop. Doesanybody else have any experience with this sharpener? Thankyou Stuart from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Mar 28 01:30:33 2001 f2S7UWS07577 Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:30:28 -0800 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:30:28 GMT RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules FILETIME=[F684B070:01C0B758] I also made the ferrules for the first 50 rods or so from 12% NS bar. As Ed did I made the walls a bit thicker to make up for the lesser stregth. Besides a bit of a tendency to gall if they were subject to grit they are still working fine.A.J. From: Ed Hartzell Subject: Re: ferrulesDate: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:07:38 -0800 Tim:I have been using the 12% leaded NS for thirty years and have had notrouble with it. I usually make the wall thickness one or two thousandths moreto make up for the loss of tensile strength from the 18% NS.Ed Hartze;; Tim Klein wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Having examined available ferrule materials, I am of the opinion thatnickel/silver alloy 752, the traditional one, is the best availablecompromise material for ferrules. I know I've asked this before, but I never seem to get an answer. Is 752available in rod stock or is it only available as tubing? I've been machining my ferrules from rod stock and the only thing I've beenable to find is alloy 792, also known as leaded nickel silver. 752 isavailable from the same suppliers, but only as tubing. I haven't noticed any performance difference, though I'm worried about how792 will hold up over time. The 792 alloy is only 12% nickel, as opposed tothe 18% nickel content of the 752. The 12% nickel silver is noticeablysofter than the 18%. I've even had to be a bit careful when polishing the12% because it's quite easy to overdo it and affect my dimensions. Once the ferrules are complete though, they seem to be fine. I've yet to seeany sort of stress problems in the 792 ferrules. Is everyone who uses nickel silver rod stock using the 792 alloy? Has anyonehad any problems with their machined ferrules? ---Tim _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from gjm80301@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 07:31:20 2001 f2SDVJS11898 2001 05:31:20 PST Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! The Garrison math is all about stress per material unit at each pointandthe stiffness and stresses all along the rod impact other pointsalong the rod. The ferrules represent a significant departure inboth size and material type. Both of those elements completelychange the characteristics of that section and, in turn, impact whatstresses are passed on to neighboring areas. As a very simple example, do the Gariison stress curves show the highstress point just abave a ferrule? No. --- John J Sabina wrote:There is nothing wrong with Garrison's math, it is hisrecommendation ofwhat a "good" rod should feel like that you do not agree with. Asto notaccounting for the extra stiffness of the ferrules, there isnothing in abending stress calculation that relates to stiffness. JJS----- Original Message -----From: "Jerry Madigan" Cc: "rodmakers" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:14 AMSubject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, You are a true masochist. Frank's version of Wayne's program is extremely useful, but therearea few improvements that could be made: In the Garrison math, something is missing in conversions ofdifferent lengths and line weights. As rods get longer, theybecomeslower, even if you supposedly hold the stresses constant. Samething as line weight is reduced. Somehow, the program needs tobefurther steepening the dimension curve as the length is increasedand/or the line weight is reduced. Th Garrison math seems to incoporate the weight of the ferrule,butnot the area of increased stiffness in the calculations. Here is simple one: Frank only allows discrete line weights. IfIthink a rod is atasd heavy for a 5 wgt, I might want to adjust to4.8. May the force be with you. Jerry --- "Mark A. Tripp" wrote:Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new taper creationsoftwareprogram.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, and have built onlyahandful,but have considerable experience in software design andprogramming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, I would like tosolicitinput from the list as to the specifications for the program. Ihave manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the user interfacegoes,but need tohear from those who know about taper design best -- listmembers!Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan on doingcompletedesignbefore writing code, and would like you all to be a part of thedesignprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. Whatwould youlike to see? What specific features should it have? ShouldtheGarrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology thatisan option?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog upthelist,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing"stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriateforthe list,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'lllookin tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Mar 28 07:39:17 2001 f2SDdHS12163 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? BTW, Mapp gas is 3 x's hotter than propane/butane !GMA from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Wed Mar 28 08:12:41 2001 f2SECfS13146 "Allen Thramer" Subject: Re: ...and a bottle of 25 yr old scotch Sorry guys, I might sputter a bit at a $2900 cane rod myself. In thelimitedview of those outside our little world those are the stories that are toldand retold until they become dictum. "All cane rods are 2-3 thousanddollars". Where would we be if you could only buy a Rolls? Don't get me completely wrong, I have seen rods that more than justifiedtheir price of 1500 to 1800 but REALLY NOW! A bit of internet stock optionin that one.A.J.Thramer Agreed Allen. You make an good point. A good reason for the guys makingthe Cadillac and Mercedes rods to feel happy. Keith Currently working on my first rod, likely a Saturn, hopefully not an Edsel. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Mar 28 09:36:15 2001 f2SFaFS16397 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Technology of fly rods book? Harry, do you mean Technology of Fly Rods book, by Don Phillips If so, that is a excellent book. You can find it atwww.vfish.net/flyrods.htm I couldn't find the review you mentioned... it must be buried somewhere onthat site. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, and all others,I think it might be well worth your while to read the new book on thePhysics of Fly rods. I think the author is Don Miller, but don't hold me tothat. Bob Petti reviewed it on www.globalflyfisher.com. Harry taylor hogan wrote: Ok I'll bite.I think the stress curves presented by the current best taper designprograms are adequate at comparing one similar style rod to another.- - Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from thogan@rochester.rr.com Wed Mar 28 09:39:09 2001 f2SFd9S16601 f2SFaab07777 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! I have dug up what I referenced in an earlier email regarding available workon various aspects of the physics of fly fishing. I hope this helps anyoneinterested. A web site regarding a company that produces software that simulates thedynamics of objects. A fly rod is one examplehttp://www.intrinsics.com/Demo/Flyrod.html The classic article regarding the physics of fly castinghttp://space.mit.edu/~kommers/fly.html The references for the above articlehttp://space.mit.edu/~kommers/refs.html Empiral Rod testinghttp://www3.wcu.edu/~mbrown/summary.html The results of the above testhttp://www3.wcu.edu/~mbrown/spreaddata.html A very good site, regarding the mathematics of fly fishinghttp://users.cybercity.dk/~bcc25154/home.html ----- Original Message ----- Subject: New taper design program needs your input! Fellow bamboo junkies: I am beginning the design phase for a new taper creation softwareprogram.I am fairly new to the world of cane rods, and have built only a handful,but have considerable experience in software design and programming. Since I am committed to a user-centric product, I would like to solicitinput from the list as to the specifications for the program. I have manyof my own ideas, particularly as far as the user interface goes, but needtohear from those who know about taper design best -- list members! Theproject will take a while to implement. I plan on doing complete designbefore writing code, and would like you all to be a part of the designprocess. So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that is anoption?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate for thelist,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Wed Mar 28 11:24:14 2001 f2SHODS21697 0500 Subject: New Design Taper: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0B782.254FEB80 Hi I have been following the discussion on blank design modeling and waswondering how you facture in differences in cane stock. Because all thingshave an effect, i.e. density of fiber, amount of finish, length of wrap deadspot, guide placement, glue hardness, and nod placement. For example I cantake a medium blank and through finish and wrapping I can change the actionto medium fast, you can also unbalance the blank by not placing the snakesand guides correctly on the blank thus creating uneven stress loads. Howwould the model take these into consideration? We all know that no twoblanks are alike just because of the nature of the beast. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker http://www.upstreamcustomrods.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0B782.254FEB80 Normal01DocumentEmail =0=0 Hi I =have beenfollowing the discussion on blank design modeling and was wondering how =youfacture in differences in cane stock. Because all things have an effect, =i.e.density of fiber, amount of finish, length of wrap dead spot, guide =placement,glue hardness, and nod placement. For example I can take a medium blank =andthrough finish and wrapping I can change the action to medium fast, you =canalso unbalance the blank by not placing the snakes and guides correctly =on theblank thus creating uneven stress loads. How would the model take these =into consideration?We all know that no two blanks are alike just because of the nature of =thebeast. Take care, Tim. Signature" Upstream =Always, Tim Doughty Rodmaker http://www.upstreamcustomrods=.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0B782.254FEB80-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 28 11:30:30 2001 f2SHUTS22132 Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Lathe According to what I've learned on the 7x10minilathe list, there are severalcompanies making the 7x10 but they all use the same plans. Harbor Freightsells two different 7x10 machines from two different manufacturers andthe parts are interchangable. I bought the gears from one model to replacethose in my machine, adifferent model. Grizzley makes one that is 2 incheslonger, the 7x12, but apparently the parts on it are interchangable with the7x10's. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca wrote: Is the Harbor Freight the same as Craftex?? It looks awfully close to theCraftex lathe I was looking at here in Canada. ShawnHarry Boyd wrote:Friends,No endorsement here at all, since I use an Atlaslathe, but there's been a good bit of discussion lately on the Harbor Freight7x10 mini-lathe. They have it on sale for $369.99http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33684&acct=&cid=&c=1Harry--Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 28 12:07:11 2001 f2SI79S23651 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! I know what I'm going to suggest is way inside the bounds of reductio adabsurdum but when I worked through the Garrison maths a few years backwhen Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding the stresses at specific points of therod would be fine if all you were doing was deciding on minimum strength ofbeams but not quite right when applied to rods because the action of a rodisn't just it's resistance to stresses at specific points but the relationshipof the continually altering forces acting on the rod that continually alterover the entire rod simultaneously and in particular the dynamics of thechangein forces acting on the rod between the back and forward cast. It struck me that the problem was more a question of a differential of allpoints working simultaneously as in the case of working out the trajectoryof aprojectile or rocket but it's been too long since I had to even think aboutallthat stuff too much and I can't confess to having being a rocket scientistwhenI did have to so I thought this must have been considered before and that Iwaswrong in my thinking.Interestingly, just a few days ago I saw a documentaryon the Midis Principlewhich was developed to completely eliminate all risk in trading on the stockmarket by allowing a trader to safely hedge any position by being able todecide what the true value of an option was at any time thus allowing one totake or sell an option to maintain a hedge. This formula worked for a whileandmade people stupefying amounts of moolah. Of course like any formula all the variables need to be known and while themarket behaved as it always has all was well until the Asian crash andRussia'sdefault on debt took place, the variables changed and the formula ceased towork then the money flowed in the wrong direction for these people. While watching this, the basic formula which mathematicians had beenworking onand modifying to suit the real world continuously was explained and it struckme that while it was wayyyy over this mental midget's head that the idea of deciding on a certain fixed point to define a value then move to the nextfixedpoint and doing the sums again then stuffing all this data into a verycomplicated formula to get a unified result based on the measurement ofvaluestaken independently of all the other almost infinite points was a bitGarrisonish. The maths was as you'd imaging tricky but one of the mathamagiciansdecided toincorporate the formula used to work out the trajectory of a missile which isdone by calculating all points of the path simultaneously, now this reallymademe sit up and take notice because it seemed to me that these values are alldependant on the dynamic values during motion and not static values at fixedpoints. Using this formula it's possible to know the exact value at any pointbased on a known value at a specific point and the formula is small andelegant. I found it interesting anyhow. But I mention it because if anybody wanted towrite a rod designing program it's be a bit of a waste to just re invent thewheel using the same math that's been used for years *if* this midisprinciplewas useful which I would think could well be. Tony At 05:31 AM 3/28/01 -0800, Jerry Madigan wrote: The Garrison math is all about stress per material unit at each pointandthe stiffness and stresses all along the rod impact other pointsalong the rod. The ferrules represent a significant departure inboth size and material type. Both of those elements completelychange the characteristics of that section and, in turn, impact whatstresses are passed on to neighboring areas. As a very simple example, do the Gariison stress curves show the highstress point just abave a ferrule? No. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 28 12:24:03 2001 f2SIO2S24103 twilhelm@occasionalrod.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Setting a depth gauge to Zero Make a "calibrated hole". I got a new 60 degree point and only used it onetime. I did it to calibrate the indicator long enough to measure the "depth" ofa hole I drilled in a piece of scrap. I saved the scrap and before I use it, Icheck the "depth" of the hole and adjust the indicator to the calibrated value. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com martinj@aa.net wrote:That's what I did, but I have not really found the crushing of the apex tobe a real problem. At least I don't think I have a problem...I suppose thatwhat I should do is to add maybe .003 or so when I measure bamboo with mycaliper. What I really need to do is to find someone with a laser measuringdevice so I can really "see" just how far off I am in my measuring. I knowthis sounds like I am saying this "tongue in cheek", and in some ways I am,but if I could fine a person with a laser you can bet your sweet cookie Iwould beat a path to their door step to do a little measuring... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero I just checked a friend's new dial indicator point and found it short by004", and its never been used.I have used the bamboo slip method in the past, but you still run the riskthat the bamboo apex will "crush" slightly the first time you measure it.The most accurate method of measuring is with a depth micrometer overroundpins. ---------- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Setting a depth gauge to Zero Without getting into a lot of detail here, I added about .004 to the figureat zero to make up for the crushed point. Now you may ask. how do you knowthe point is crushed? Well I don't but to get an absolute point to the last.0001 I think is pretty unlikely. I think it is just as likely that duringthe machining of the 60 degree point, the point fell off or crumbled. In mycase once the tip was minus a few thou it seemed to stabilize. You couldusethe drill bit method which I did or you could plane a section of bamboo toaperfect angle, and then set a straight edge across the top of the form.Holdit down tightly, and slide the bamboo up the form until it is stopped bythestraight edge. Mark this spot and then measure the bamboo. Then set yourindicator on this exact spot and set it to the measurement of the bamboo.Bottom line, this might be one of the best measurement methods. I have notdone this but am thinking of doing this. It is very similar to the methodGarrison used. Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Troutgetter@aol.comSent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Setting a depth gauge to Zero In a message dated 3/26/2001 7:14:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,twilhelm@occasionalrod.com writes: Got my depth gauge, a Mitutoyo digamatic so I don't have to think aboutwhatthe dial says but just read the numbers from the display. I'm not wellversed in using these things so I need a little guidance in theirproperusage. Certainly at face value the easiest way to set the gauge to zero is tosetit on a flat portion of the form and press the button. But as I recallsetting the 60* point on a surface like that can cause damage to it andintime cause inaccurate readings. Wayne's book talks of a index fixture or block that can be used. Ican'tfind one in any of the catalogs that I have and after talking to acouplepeople they have no idea what I'm talking about. (That probably makestwoof us.) So my question to the list is how is a depth gauge set to zero properlyandwhat sort of procedure do you use to get accurate measurements. Thanks in advance.Tim Wilhelm Tim,You'll find a lot of good advise from list members on how to zero outyourdepth gauge and many have probably already replied off list. You can have a machinist friend mill a 60* groove in a piece of bar stocktoa known depth say .0125 or something just as long as you know what thedepthactually is.Set YOUR gauge to the known depth of the milled gauge so the shoulders ofyour 60* point is resting on the sides of the milled groove in the gaugerather than the point resting on the flats of your forms.If all else fails, set your gauge to the flat of your forms and zero itout.Hope this helps a little,Mike from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Mar 28 13:26:09 2001 (may be forged)) f2SJQ8S26789 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Nyatex replacement - Polyurethane ? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B7BC.F099A670 Very useful post. One other thing I've noticed is that the glue graduallyhardens further over 2 or 3 weeks. At least, the foamed glue that leaks out from glue joints does. I noticed this on some rough wooden workshop jigs Iglued up. I believe I've seen it with gorilla glue, definitely with theprobond. I've made a few rods with this stuff with very good results (as far as onecan tell). I'm thinking of experimenting with hollow built butts in thefuture -- I wonder if this foamed glue would add enough strength, and bondwell enough to the inner bamboo surfaces, to eliminate the need for solidpoints in the shaft at regular intervals. There would have to be a way forthe glue to escape as it foamed (out the bottom of the section, since thetop would be solid for the ferrule station). Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Nyatex replacement - Polyurethane ? Hi, Last week I went to glue up a tip section with Nyatex. I have glued up 8rods using Nyatex without problems. The last two were done with a new batch of glue. This was about 3 months ago. This time, as always, I followed Waynes method of mixing but was unable to get a good mix. I even made a mixer ourof my Demeral tool and a roofing nail. The curing agent has developed a very high viscosity and is impossible to mix. Rather than fight this epoxy and to simplify my work I looked at several polyurethane glues that several list members have used. A one part, out of the tube or bottle has appeal. In order to test the glues I did the following: I took a strip of bamboo that had been lying in the scrap heap on the floor planed it flat and then cut it in to 2 1/2 inch strips. I then used Probond, Titebond Polyurethane and Gorilla Glue to glue three sets of stripstogether. Two strips were over lapped about 1 inch or so and held together with anAcco Binder clip. For the first test I did not wet the bamboo but applied theglue to the dry surfaces (remember I live in Houston so nothing is truly dry).The glue was allowed to dry for 24 hours. The glued strips were then placed inmy vise and the joints pulled apart with pliers. In each case the glue joint failed without taking any of the bamboo with it. I concluded that there must not have been enough moisture in the cane for the polyurethane to cure properly. The next test was similar but, this time I wet the strips and let them sit clamped them. 24 hours later I pulled them apart with the pliers. This time the cane fibers pulled away as the strips were separated. The cane failednot just the glue. I tested the viscosity of the glues by forming similar sized pools on apiece of newspaper and looking at the spread of the glue. The Probond spread farthest while the Titebond and Gorilla had similar spreads. After theglues had spread and began foaming I stuck a toothpick in each puddle and tried to judge the set up time by moving the toothpick at intervals. The idea was to see how much straightening time each would provide. The Probond seem to provide the most working time. At 15 minutes the Titebond was firming up while the Gorilla and Probond were still easily moved. At 30 minutes they had all firmed up to some degree with the Gorilla still the most easily moved. At 45 minutes the Probond and Gorilla were still moveable but the Titebond was firm. The situation was similar at 60 minutes. At 1 hour and 15 minutes all were firm. As you know these glues foam as they set. The Probond had the least foam mass; the Titebond had the most and the Gorilla intermediate. I'm getting ready to glue up a tip section and believe I will use theProbond as it seems to have the longest working time. Does anyone have anycommends on this selection or polyurethane glues in general? Mark Cole ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B7BC.F099A670 0DocumentEmail V=eryuseful post. One other thing I've noticed is that the glue gradually =hardensfurther over 2 or 3 weeks. At least, the foamed glue that leaks out = from gluejoints does. I noticed this on some rough wooden workshop jigs I glued =up. Ibelieve I've seen it with gorilla glue, definitely with the =probond. I='ve madea few rods with this stuff with very good results (as far as one can =tell). I'mthinking of experimenting with hollow built butts in the future -- I =wonder ifthis foamed glue would add enough strength, and bond well enough to the =innerbamboo surfaces, to eliminate the need for solid points in the shaft at =regularintervals. There would have to be a way for the glue to escape as it =foamed(out the bottom of the section, since the top would be solid for the =ferrulestation). B=arry -----OriginalMessage-----From: MasjC1@aol.com = Sent: Monday, March 26,=2001 8:03PM RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Nyatex =replacement -Polyurethane ? Hi, Last week I went to glue up a tip section with Nyatex. I have glued up =8 rods using Nyatex without problems. The last two were done with a new batch =of glue. This was about 3 months ago. This time, as always, I followed =Waynes method of mixing but was unable to get a good mix. I even made a mixer =our of my Demeral tool and a roofing nail. The curing agent has developed a =very high viscosity and is impossible to mix. Rather than fight this epoxy =and to simplify my work I looked at several polyurethane glues that several =list appeal. In order to test the glues I did the following: I took a strip of bamboo that had been lying in the scrap heap on the =floor planed it flat and then cut it in to 2 1/2 inch strips. I then used =Probond, Titebond Polyurethane and Gorilla Glue to glue three sets of strips =together. Two strips were over lapped about 1 inch or so and held together with =an Acco Binder clip. For the first test I did not wet the bamboo but applied =the glue to the dry surfaces (remember I live in Houston so nothing is truly =dry). The glue was allowed to dry for 24 hours. The glued strips were then placed =in my vise and the joints pulled apart with pliers. In each case the glue =joint failed without taking any of the bamboo with it. I concluded that there =must not have been enough moisture in the cane for the polyurethane to cure = properly. The next test was similar but, this time I wet the strips and let them =sit clamped them. 24 hours later I pulled them apart with the pliers. This =time the cane fibers pulled away as the strips were separated. The cane =failed not just the glue. I tested the viscosity of the glues by forming similar sized pools on a =piece of newspaper and looking at the spread of the glue. The Probond spread = farthest while the Titebond and Gorilla had similar spreads. = glues had spread and began foaming I stuck a toothpick in each puddle and =tried to judge the set up time by moving the toothpick at intervals. The idea =was to see how much straightening time each would provide. The Probond seem to = provide the most working time. At 15 minutes the Titebond was firming =up minutes they had all firmed up to some degree with the Gorilla still the most = moved. At 45 minutes the Probond and Gorilla were still moveable but =the Titebond was firm. The situation was similar at 60 minutes. At 1 hour =and 15 minutes all were firm. As you know these glues foam as they set. The Probond had the least =foam mass; the Titebond had the most and the Gorilla intermediate. I'm getting ready to glue up a tip section and believe I will use the =Probond as it seems to have the longest working time. Does anyone have any =commends on this selection or polyurethane glues in general? Mark Cole ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B7BC.F099A670-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Mar 28 13:26:10 2001 (may be forged)) f2SJQAS26794 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: New taper design program needs your input! One minor suggestion -- I think there's still a place for a simple linegraph showing the flat-to-flat measurement on one axis and distance fromtipon the other. I find these very useful, sometimes more useful than stresscurves based on math that omits several important factors. Thanks for asking! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, I guess there are two issues, the user interface and the theory/science/math behind the calculations. I have never seen a mathematical model of a flyrod in action thatreally captured what happens when we cast. There was an interesting discussion of this on this list in April 1996. One participant had a PhD in computational physics. He pointed out a host of deficiencies in Garrison's model. Nevertheless, lots of us use stress curves to design and compare rods. Rods of similar lengths with similar stresscurves seem to cast alike. Maybe there is a better tool out there that isn't well known. In terms of user interface, I'd like these 3 features (provided youwork with Garrison's model):1. Be able to draw a stress curve freehand and derive the rod from it.2. Be able to convert between hex, penta and quad rods by equivalentcross section (easy) OR equivalent stress curve (more difficult).3. Be able to blend (average) two or more stress curves together andderive a rod from it. Good luck on your quest.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Mark A. Tripp wrote: Fellow bamboo junkies: ... So, here is your chance to give input from the ground up. What would youlike to see? What specific features should it have? Should the Garrisonmath be the starting point, or is there other methodology that is anoption?You get the idea! I don't know if it is appropriate to clog up the list,but the synergy that occurs when this group gets to discussing "stuff" isinvaluable. If there is a consensus that it is inappropriate for thelist,please email me directly. If there is enough interest, I'll look in tosetting up a forum with listbot or some such service. I look forward to reading any and all ideas. Regards, Mark Tripp from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 28 14:42:18 2001 f2SKgGS01602 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:42:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Technology of fly rods book? Yep, that's the one! Harry Darrell Lee wrote: Harry, do you mean Technology of Fly Rods book, by Don Phillips --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Mar 28 14:45:54 2001 f2SKjmS01880 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:44:21 -0800 Rodmakers List-serv Subject: Re: Bob Petti's review of Technology of fly rods book? Troy,Nope, lost that bag a long, long time ago... But once in a while I stillthink about searching for it. When that happens, I lie down and take a nap tillthe urge goes away. I can't find it either, but maybe Bob Petti will jump inhere and tell me what happened to it... Harry "Miller, Troy" wrote: I couldn't find it either (but there were several other good reviews thatwere interesting.....) Preacher, you haven't been dipping into that baggiethat you saved from the seventies, have you....? : ) TAM I just ordered the Phillips book from my fly shop, but I heard yesterdaythat the company we order most of our books from burned to the groundlastweek or week before. So we've ordered it from another supply house.Anxious for that to come in.... -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 09:34 AM Cc: rod 'akersSubject: Technology of fly rods book? Harry, do you mean Technology of Fly Rods book, by Don Phillips If so, that is a excellent book. You can find it atwww.vfish.net/flyrods.htm I couldn't find the review you mentioned... it must be buried somewhere onthat site. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 3:59 PM Cc: rod 'akersSubject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, and all others,I think it might be well worth your while to read the new book on thePhysics of Fly rods. I think the author is Don Miller, but don't hold me tothat. Bob Petti reviewed it on www.globalflyfisher.com. Harry taylor hogan wrote: Ok I'll bite.I think the stress curves presented by the current best taper designprograms are adequate at comparing one similar style rod to another.- - Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Wed Mar 28 15:01:17 2001 f2SL1BS02747 net.com [204.253.245.125] (may be forged)) Rodmakers List-serv Subject: RE: Bob Petti's review of Technology of fly rods book? Funny isn't it? You used to dip into the bag and then took a long nap(after eating half of what's in the cupboards), but now you take a long napto avoid dipping in the bag..... Do you still empty out the cupboards? : ) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bob Petti's review of Technology of fly rods book? Troy,Nope, lost that bag a long, long time ago... But once in a while Istillthink about searching for it. When that happens, I lie down and take a naptillthe urge goes away. I can't find it either, but maybe Bob Petti will jumpinhere and tell me what happened to it... Harry "Miller, Troy" wrote: I couldn't find it either (but there were several other good reviews thatwere interesting.....) Preacher, you haven't been dipping into thatbaggiethat you saved from the seventies, have you....? : ) TAM I just ordered the Phillips book from my fly shop, but I heard yesterdaythat the company we order most of our books from burned to the groundlastweek or week before. So we've ordered it from another supply house.Anxious for that to come in.... -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 09:34 AM Cc: rod 'akersSubject: Technology of fly rods book? Harry, do you mean Technology of Fly Rods book, by Don Phillips If so, that is a excellent book. You can find it atwww.vfish.net/flyrods.htm I couldn't find the review you mentioned... it must be buried somewhere onthat site. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 3:59 PM Cc: rod 'akersSubject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Mark, and all others,I think it might be well worth your while to read the new book on thePhysics of Fly rods. I think the author is Don Miller, but don't hold metothat. Bob Petti reviewed it on www.globalflyfisher.com. Harry taylor hogan wrote: Ok I'll bite.I think the stress curves presented by the current best taper designprograms are adequate at comparing one similar style rod to another.- - Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 15:46:50 2001 f2SLkmS05209 NAA15694 Subject: Re: Old Question, New Question Thank you to those who have responded to the heat treating method. Andto those who do not wish to suffer the wrath of others who disagree withthem I would be honored to have you reply off the list. I am just tryingto get a feel at what I should be aiming for in heat treatment. The listis what the internet is all about. Thanks, Adam Vigil from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 28 15:55:09 2001 f2SLt7S05833 NAA25925 Subject: Help with a Rod ID A friend gave me a rod to look over, and it's like the Japanese rodsthat have a reversable handle allowing them to be used as either a flyrod or spinning rod. This is definitely NOT one of the Japanese rods,though, and is much older. I know I read about these somewhere, butcan't think of where. (I know none of you guys have THATproblem.......) Any help on which book to consult, or information aboutwho made these? The rod itself is pretty rough, and I would notrecommend it being worth the time and trouble unless it was somehowspecial enough to warrant the effort. No ID on the rod itself. Thanks, mac from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 16:14:57 2001 f2SMEuS06880 2001 14:14:57 PST Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? just 3 times? it is "scarey" hot. i burned up somebamboo with it. it took me by suprise...and i wastalking. "...be wary, men, of those who huddle closest to thefire!" - A.Lincoln :-) timothy --- nobler wrote:BTW, Mapp gas is 3 x's hotter than propane/butane !GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Mar 28 16:53:09 2001 f2SMr5S08499 0000 Subject: Re: Help with a Rod ID Hi Ralph, I would bet my best planing form and T&T rod that it's either aHorrocks Ibbotson or more likely a Montague. Those are pretty much the onlyCompanies other than the Japanese that made that type of rod. On secondthought I at one time had a WM Granger that was a reversable handlefly/spin. It's easy to tell the WM Granger because it is of much higherquality than the rest. Marty Ralph MacKenzie wrote: A friend gave me a rod to look over, and it's like the Japanese rodsthat have a reversable handle allowing them to be used as either a flyrod or spinning rod. This is definitely NOT one of the Japanese rods,though, and is much older. I know I read about these somewhere, butcan't think of where. (I know none of you guys have THATproblem.......) Any help on which book to consult, or information aboutwho made these? The rod itself is pretty rough, and I would notrecommend it being worth the time and trouble unless it was somehowspecial enough to warrant the effort. No ID on the rod itself. Thanks, mac from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 28 17:01:02 2001 f2SN11S08893 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Well, I'll tell you what I use. I found a couple of torches at Harbor Freight. The way it comes, one is about 2 1/2 feet long and uses one of those 20 lbpropane containers. I shortened it by cutting the pipe between the triggerand the nozzle so that it was less than a foot long. If you turn it up all theway, it will put out a flame that is "scary". Take your choice; flame the caneor cremate it. It's normally about $20 but is regularly on sale for around$15. The other also cost around $20 at Harbor Freight. It is a multifunctiontorch with a selection of several head types. One is a fanned out nozzle thatI bought to do tiger striping. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com wrote:just 3 times? it is "scarey" hot. i burned up somebamboo with it. it took me by suprise...and i wastalking. "...be wary, men, of those who huddle closest to thefire!" - A.Lincoln :-) timothy --- nobler wrote:BTW, Mapp gas is 3 x's hotter than propane/butane !GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Mar 28 17:54:35 2001 f2SNsZS10537 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Help with a Rod ID Often it is made by Montague, the most common I've seen is the Splitswitchwhich is a mid grade rod. Sometimes with NS ferrules, sometimes platedbrass. I know H-I made them too, but I've never seen a signed example. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Help with a Rod ID A friend gave me a rod to look over, and it's like the Japanese rodsthat have a reversable handle allowing them to be used as either a flyrod or spinning rod. This is definitely NOT one of the Japanese rods,though, and is much older. I know I read about these somewhere, butcan't think of where. (I know none of you guys have THATproblem.......) Any help on which book to consult, or information aboutwho made these? The rod itself is pretty rough, and I would notrecommend it being worth the time and trouble unless it was somehowspecial enough to warrant the effort. No ID on the rod itself. Thanks, mac from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Mar 28 17:54:47 2001 f2SNshS10547 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Help with a Rod ID Come to think of it, I think I saw a Leonard that did it too, and I mighthave seen one on ebay... but I can't quite recall... maybe I washallucinating... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Help with a Rod ID Hi Ralph, I would bet my best planing form and T&T rod that it's either aHorrocks Ibbotson or more likely a Montague. Those are pretty much the onlyCompanies other than the Japanese that made that type of rod. On secondthought I at one time had a WM Granger that was a reversable handlefly/spin. It's easy to tell the WM Granger because it is of much higherquality than the rest. Marty Ralph MacKenzie wrote: A friend gave me a rod to look over, and it's like the Japanese rodsthat have a reversable handle allowing them to be used as either a flyrod or spinning rod. This is definitely NOT one of the Japanese rods,though, and is much older. I know I read about these somewhere, butcan't think of where. (I know none of you guys have THATproblem.......) Any help on which book to consult, or information aboutwho made these? The rod itself is pretty rough, and I would notrecommend it being worth the time and trouble unless it was somehowspecial enough to warrant the effort. No ID on the rod itself. Thanks, mac from dutcher@email.msn.com Wed Mar 28 18:05:20 2001 f2T05JS11116 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:05:15 -0800 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:04:37 -0800 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? FILETIME=[EED99530:01C0B7E3] Hi Tim, I'll tell you what is scary, grown men playing with flame-throwers. Ithink we should all take time to say a prayer that our friend Bob Nunleydoes not discover fire. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: timothy troester Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 2:14 PMSubject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? just 3 times? it is "scarey" hot. i burned up somebamboo with it. it took me by suprise...and i wastalking. "...be wary, men, of those who huddle closest to thefire!" - A.Lincoln :-) timothy --- nobler wrote:BTW, Mapp gas is 3 x's hotter than propane/butane !GMA ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Mar 28 18:21:55 2001 f2T0LsS11662 QAA07609 QAA14995 0800 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: spey rod Once again in a hour of need the guys from the list came through in flyingcolors. 2 million thank you's for all the spey rod tapers every one sent me,stay away from the flame throwers, no more food tripping and watch thosesharp splines, they'll cut you bad. Bleedingly Yours Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Mar 28 18:28:45 2001 f2T0SjS12052 Subject: Re: Help with a Rod ID Hi Ralph,I've seen and worked on a number of rods just like the one you describe andthey've never had any identity markings on them. The ones I've worked onwere almost certainly Montagues or Horrocks Ibbotson. As a matter of fact Istill have one such handle assembly in my parts collection.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Help with a Rod ID A friend gave me a rod to look over, and it's like the Japanese rodsthat have a reversable handle allowing them to be used as either a flyrod or spinning rod. This is definitely NOT one of the Japanese rods,though, and is much older. I know I read about these somewhere, butcan't think of where. (I know none of you guys have THATproblem.......) Any help on which book to consult, or information aboutwho made these? The rod itself is pretty rough, and I would notrecommend it being worth the time and trouble unless it was somehowspecial enough to warrant the effort. No ID on the rod itself. Thanks, mac from channer@frontier.net Wed Mar 28 18:35:10 2001 f2T0Z9S12319 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! And that, in a nutshell , is a damn fine reason to design rods empirically. Stopall this , you guys are giving me a headache!John Tony Young wrote: I know what I'm going to suggest is way inside the bounds of reductio adabsurdum but when I worked through the Garrison maths a few years backwhen Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding the stresses at specific points oftherod would be fine if all you were doing was deciding on minimum strength ofbeams but not quite right when applied to rods because the action of a rodisn't just it's resistance to stresses at specific points but the relationshipof the continually altering forces acting on the rod that continually alterover the entire rod simultaneously and in particular the dynamics of thechangein forces acting on the rod between the back and forward cast.It struck me that the problem was more a question of a differential of allpoints working simultaneously as in the case of working out the trajectoryof aprojectile or rocket but it's been too long since I had to even think aboutallthat stuff too much and I can't confess to having being a rocket scientistwhenI did have to so I thought this must have been considered before and that Iwaswrong in my thinking. Interestingly, just a few days ago I saw a documentary on the MidisPrinciplewhich was developed to completely eliminate all risk in trading on the stockmarket by allowing a trader to safely hedge any position by being able todecide what the true value of an option was at any time thus allowing onetotake or sell an option to maintain a hedge. This formula worked for a whileandmade people stupefying amounts of moolah. Of course like any formula all the variables need to be known and while themarket behaved as it always has all was well until the Asian crash andRussia'sdefault on debt took place, the variables changed and the formula ceasedtowork then the money flowed in the wrong direction for these people. While watching this, the basic formula which mathematicians had beenworking onand modifying to suit the real world continuously was explained and itstruckme that while it was wayyyy over this mental midget's head that the ideaofdeciding on a certain fixed point to define a value then move to the nextfixedpoint and doing the sums again then stuffing all this data into a verycomplicated formula to get a unified result based on the measurement ofvaluestaken independently of all the other almost infinite points was a bitGarrisonish. The maths was as you'd imaging tricky but one of the mathamagiciansdecided toincorporate the formula used to work out the trajectory of a missile whichisdone by calculating all points of the path simultaneously, now this reallymademe sit up and take notice because it seemed to me that these values arealldependant on the dynamic values during motion and not static values atfixedpoints. Using this formula it's possible to know the exact value at any pointbased on a known value at a specific point and the formula is small andelegant. I found it interesting anyhow. But I mention it because if anybody wanted towrite a rod designing program it's be a bit of a waste to just re invent thewheel using the same math that's been used for years *if* this midisprinciplewas useful which I would think could well be. Tony At 05:31 AM 3/28/01 -0800, Jerry Madigan wrote: The Garrison math is all about stress per material unit at each pointandthe stiffness and stresses all along the rod impact other pointsalong the rod. The ferrules represent a significant departure inboth size and material type. Both of those elements completelychange the characteristics of that section and, in turn, impact whatstresses are passed on to neighboring areas. As a very simple example, do the Gariison stress curves show the highstress point just abave a ferrule? No. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from MasjC1@aol.com Wed Mar 28 18:58:48 2001 f2T0wlS13177 Subject: Re: Old Question, New Question --part1_a6.12050d37.27f3e2ac_boundary Adam, I have been testing my (wife's) oven with a digital thermometer and an infrared temperature measurements. When the strips come out of my ovenafter the recommended time and temperature there is no color change but thestrip temperature has not reached the 375 that the over is set too. I have been progressively increasing the heating time. My strips are now coming out at the required temperature and with a definite color change. I would suggest that you are not heating them long enough. The other thing that the digital thermometer shows is the wide temperature swings in the oven as it works. Mark Cole --part1_a6.12050d37.27f3e2ac_boundary Adam, I have been testing my (wife's) oven with a digital thermometer and an infrared temperature measurements. When the strips come out of myoven after the recommended time and temperature there is no color change butthe strip temperature has not reached the 375 that the over is set too. I havebeen progressively increasing the heating time. My strips are now coming outat the required temperature and with a definite color change. I wouldsuggest that you are not heating them long enough. The other thing that thedigital thermometer shows is the wide temperature swings in the oven as itworks. Mark Cole --part1_a6.12050d37.27f3e2ac_boundary-- from piscator@macatawa.org Wed Mar 28 20:07:34 2001 f2T27XS14562 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope! Flame throwers don't work. Fuel's a gel and sticks to the cane and burnstoo long. Makes a hell of a mess. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope! Brian from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 28 20:54:08 2001 f2T2s8S15501 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Brian,Flamethrowers work just fine... OH, Sorry... you meant on cane, huh? Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope! Flame throwers don't work. Fuel's a gel and sticks to the cane and burnstoo long. Makes a hell of a mess. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope! Brian from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 28 20:55:17 2001 f2T2tFS15598 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! You are of course right.But, for anybody wanting to design a rod matamaticaly this may be useful ormay not if I've got my reasoning wrong.The Garrison math obviously works but I'd suggest it's very good forcomparing rod actions but not so hot for designing one. work my way through them but for any rocket scientists out there in the subether it may be an interesting way to spend a bit of time on. Tony At 05:34 PM 3/28/01 -0700, channer wrote:And that, in a nutshell , is a damn fine reason to design rodsempirically. Stopall this , you guys are giving me a headache!John Tony Young wrote: I know what I'm going to suggest is way inside the bounds of reductio adabsurdum but when I worked through the Garrison maths a few yearsbackwhen Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding the stresses at specific pointsof therod would be fine if all you were doing was deciding on minimum strengthofbeams but not quite right when applied to rods because the action of arodisn't just it's resistance to stresses at specific points but therelationshipof the continually altering forces acting on the rod that continually alterover the entire rod simultaneously and in particular the dynamics of thechangein forces acting on the rod between the back and forward cast. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Mar 28 20:55:35 2001 f2T2tYS15679 Subject: bamboo from China List,Has anyone besides me gotten an e-mail asking you to look at a sight from China and maybe to buy something there?bret from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Mar 28 21:05:30 2001 f2T35RS16116 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:05:04 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: bamboo from China Rods? Yes, I have, but not recently. I asked for a demo to evaluate in Power Fibers. They politely said no. (Not that I blame them.) At 09:53 PM 3/28/2001 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Has anyone besides me gotten an e-mail asking you to look at a sight fromChina and maybe to buy something there?bret Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Mar 28 22:00:28 2001 f2T40RS17492 Subject: Re: Help with a Rod ID Thanks, all -Sounds like an HI Black River is most likely what it is. If not HI, maybe Montague. Either way, not really worth the massive effort it would taketo save its life at this point; it's in really rough shape. best to everybody, mac from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 22:04:30 2001 f2T44TS17711 2001 20:04:27 PST Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! john, i am inclined to agree. i thought i had a goodpicture in my head for what was going on now i amconfused and have a headache. :-) now i'm going tohave to read some more traver to get it again. i sayif it makes you tingle you did it right. i built a rodlast spring that makes me ooo-and-ah every time i castit...draw that on a graph. :-) timothy --- channer wrote:And that, in a nutshell , is a damn fine reason todesign rods empirically. Stopall this , you guys are giving me a headache!John Tony Young wrote: I know what I'm going to suggest is way inside thebounds of reductio adabsurdum but when I worked through the Garrisonmaths a few years back when Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding thestresses at specific points of therod would be fine if all you were doing wasdeciding on minimum strength ofbeams but not quite right when applied to rodsbecause the action of a rodisn't just it's resistance to stresses at specificpoints but the relationshipof the continually altering forces acting on therod that continually alterover the entire rod simultaneously and inparticular the dynamics of thechangein forces acting on the rod between the back andforward cast.It struck me that the problem was more a questionof a differential of allpoints working simultaneously as in the case ofworking out the trajectoryof aprojectile or rocket but it's been too long sinceI had to even think aboutallthat stuff too much and I can't confess to havingbeing a rocket scientistwhenI did have to so I thought this must have beenconsidered before and that Iwaswrong in my thinking. Interestingly, just a few days ago I saw adocumentary on the Midis Principlewhich was developed to completely eliminate allrisk in trading on the stockmarket by allowing a trader to safely hedge anyposition by being able todecide what the true value of an option was at anytime thus allowing one totake or sell an option to maintain a hedge. Thisformula worked for a whileandmade people stupefying amounts of moolah. Of course like any formula all the variables needto be known and while themarket behaved as it always has all was well untilthe Asian crash andRussia'sdefault on debt took place, the variables changedand the formula ceased towork then the money flowed in the wrong direction While watching this, the basic formula whichmathematicians had beenworking onand modifying to suit the real world continuouslywas explained and it struckme that while it was wayyyy over this mentalmidget's head that the idea ofdeciding on a certain fixed point to define avalue then move to the nextfixedpoint and doing the sums again then stuffing allthis data into a verycomplicated formula to get a unified result basedon the measurement of valuestaken independently of all the other almostinfinite points was a bitGarrisonish. The maths was as you'd imaging tricky but one ofthe mathamagicians decided toincorporate the formula used to work out thetrajectory of a missile which isdone by calculating all points of the pathsimultaneously, now this reallymademe sit up and take notice because it seemed to methat these values are alldependant on the dynamic values during motion andnot static values at fixedpoints. Using this formula it's possible to knowthe exact value at any pointbased on a known value at a specific point and theformula is small andelegant. I found it interesting anyhow. But I mention itbecause if anybody wanted towrite a rod designing program it's be a bit of awaste to just re invent thewheel using the same math that's been used foryears *if* this midis principlewas useful which I would think could well be. Tony At 05:31 AM 3/28/01 -0800, Jerry Madigan wrote: The Garrison math is all about stress permaterial unit at each pointandthe stiffness and stresses all along the rodimpact other pointsalong the rod. The ferrules represent asignificant departure inboth size and material type. Both of thoseelements completelychange the characteristics of that section and,in turn, impact whatstresses are passed on to neighboring areas. As a very simple example, do the Gariison stresscurves show the highstress point just abave a ferrule? No. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is acraftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heartis an artist. As required in accordance with new draconianAustralian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copyor forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from Dennishigham@cs.com Wed Mar 28 23:47:45 2001 f2T5ljS19930 Subject: Re: Bob Petti's review of Technology of fly rods book? Harry-I just had a lady on my airplane who, I think, has your baggie. After rolling a joint and lighting up on the airplane she realized her mistake, so she ran to the bathroom to finish. With flight attendants banging in the lav door, she flushed the smoking evidence and tossed your baggie into the toilet. Walking confidently back to her seat (no evidence=no crime) she realized she hadn't flushed the bag! Flight attendents recovered your baggie and wanted her met by police and charged with conspiracy to commit cannabis, mother rapeing/father rapeing and anything else the police could think of ! This was about the time our lady of cannabis realized how much she paid for the bag and demanded it back! We explained the we'd be happy to return the bag toher and when we arrived in Chicago she could explain to the nice Chicago policemen what she was doing with a plastic baggie of funny leaves. She deceided she really hadn't paid that much for the bag and it really wasn't hers, she just found it in the seatback pocket. The/your(?) bag was turned over to the Chicago police on arrival and, if you really want it back, I can give you a phone number for the nice policewoman who took it away. You will, of course, have to identify the missing bag! Best, Dennis Troy,Nope, lost that bag a long, long time ago... But once in a while I stillthink about searching for it. When that happens, I lie down and take a nap tillthe urge goes away. I can't find it either, but maybe Bob Petti will jump inhere and tell me what happened to it... Harry "Miller, Troy" wrote: I couldn't find it either (but there were several other good reviews thatwere interesting.....) Preacher, you haven't been dipping into that baggiethat you saved from the seventies, have you....? : ) from b2g@jps.net Wed Mar 28 23:49:47 2001 f2T5ngS20078 0000 Subject: Heat Gun Organization: Badges 2 Go This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0B7D9.27652460 Hello all, Thought that I would pass on some info. Just this last week I received =a new heat gun that I ordered from Grizzly Industrial. After reviewing =the two heat guns that are in their catalog, I decided to order the =heavy-duty, industrial heat gun (Model No. H0801). After searching all =the local hardware stores I could not find a variable temperature (120 - =590=B0 C or 248 - 1094=B0 F) controlled heat gun for the same price I =paid for this one. The first test I did was to see how stable the gun =was when I turn it on and set it on the table to heat up some strips for =straightening. This heat gun passed this test with flying colors by =staying put. The next set of tests I have yet to do is to make some =temperature reading at different settings and log them to get an idea of =the guns performance. All in all I am very pleased with their heat gun =and would recommend it if you haven't purchased one yet. It is worth =the shipping wait. There is no financial interest, blah, blah blah. Robert H. PS: BTW, I did find out that the average hair dryer will only heat up to =160=B0 F and my SWMBO embossing heating tool tops out at 350=B0 F (No =wonder why she torched the paper that she was working on when she first =used it.) ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0B7D9.27652460 Hello all, Thought that I would pass on some = decided to order the heavy-duty, industrial heat gun (Model No. = After searching all the local hardware stores I could not find a = temperature (120 - 590=B0 C or 248 - 1094=B0 F) controlled heat gun for = gun was when I turn it on and set it on the table to heat up some strips = temperature reading at different settings and log them to get an idea of = blah blah. Robert H. PS: BTW, I did find out that the = will only heat up to 160=B0 F and my SWMBO embossing heating tool tops = F (No wonder why she torched the paper that she was working on when she = used it.) ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0B7D9.27652460-- from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Mar 29 01:28:23 2001 f2T7SNS22223 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:28:19 -0800 Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:28:14 -0800 Subject: Re: bamboo from China FILETIME=[D3E00780:01C0B821] Yes, I did today. Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 6:53 PMSubject: bamboo from China List,Has anyone besides me gotten an e-mail asking you to look at a sight fromChina and maybe to buy something there?bret from bh887@lafn.org Thu Mar 29 02:58:47 2001 f2T8wkS23386 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Help with a Rod ID I have a Montague Rapidan that has the reversible handle. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Help with a Rod ID Often it is made by Montague, the most common I've seen is theSplitswitchwhich is a mid grade rod. Sometimes with NS ferrules, sometimes platedbrass. I know H-I made them too, but I've never seen a signed example. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Help with a Rod ID A friend gave me a rod to look over, and it's like the Japanese rodsthat have a reversable handle allowing them to be used as either a flyrod or spinning rod. This is definitely NOT one of the Japanese rods,though, and is much older. I know I read about these somewhere, butcan't think of where. (I know none of you guys have THATproblem.......) Any help on which book to consult, or information aboutwho made these? The rod itself is pretty rough, and I would notrecommend it being worth the time and trouble unless it was somehowspecial enough to warrant the effort. No ID on the rod itself. Thanks, mac from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Mar 29 04:02:28 2001 f2TA2RS24142 f2TA2K089212; Subject: Re: PU glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C0B7DD.F0748F40 Dave No expert opinion here, but have just recently finished gluing up and =finishing my third rod using PU glue, after 13 with Epon 828. Two of the rods were flamed, and they were no problem to straighten; =just like the epoxy rods, only they don't smell as bad! The third is a natural ("blonde") coloured rod, and when I went to =straighten the blank, I was worried that I would darken the surface and =mar the finish, especially as the amount of heat needed was an unknown =quantity to me, as the experience with flamed rods is not especially =helpful in this respect. What I did was Glad Wrap some wet gauze swabs over the areas to be =straightened overnight, and the next morning I removed them one at a =time and heated and straightened them over a heat gun. There are no =problems up to this time that I can determine; the blanks softened, =straightened, and firmed up again pretty much just like with epoxy. Peter Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:49 AMSubject: PU glue List has been quiet on heat straightening blanks glued up with PU =Glue. Whats the latest?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C0B7DD.F0748F40 Dave No expert opinion here, but have just = Epon 828. Two of the rods were flamed, and they= problem to straighten; just like the epoxy rods, only they don't smell = bad! The third is a natural ("blonde") = surface and mar the finish, especially as the amount of heat needed was = unknown quantity to me, as the experience with flamed rods is not = helpful in this respect. What I did was Glad Wrap some wetgauze = one at a time and heated and straightened them over a heat gun. There = Peter ----- Original Message ----- Dave =Norling Sent: Wednesday, March 28,2001 = AMSubject: PU glue List has been quiet on heat = blanks glued up with PU Glue. Whats the latest?Dave ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C0B7DD.F0748F40-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Mar 29 04:30:52 2001 f2TAUoS24559 f2TAUm092289; Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Tony, your screed for the stressing of caneHas bloody well gone and formatted my brain;My circuits are numb, my synapses hateful -Can you rescue my cortex ? I'd really be grateful. Has left me with a case of acquired "abrainia".The cortex is gone, the cerebrum is rootedAnd what's left in my head just cannot be booted; There are various parts of my body whose functionIs sorely in need of some real Extreme Unction;My brain, like my scrotum, is in a rough patch -But at least the latter is still handy to scratch! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! You are of course right.But, for anybody wanting to design a rod matamaticaly this may be usefulormay not if I've got my reasoning wrong.The Garrison math obviously works but I'd suggest it's very good forcomparing rod actions but not so hot for designing one. towork my way through them but for any rocket scientists out there in thesubether it may be an interesting way to spend a bit of time on. Tony At 05:34 PM 3/28/01 -0700, channer wrote:And that, in a nutshell , is a damn fine reason to design rodsempirically. Stopall this , you guys are giving me a headache!John Tony Young wrote: I know what I'm going to suggest is way inside the bounds of reductioadabsurdum but when I worked through the Garrison maths a few yearsbackwhen Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding the stresses at specific pointsof therod would be fine if all you were doing was deciding on minimumstrength ofbeams but not quite right when applied to rods because the action of arodisn't just it's resistance to stresses at specific points but therelationshipof the continually altering forces acting on the rod that continuallyalterover the entire rod simultaneously and in particular the dynamics ofthechangein forces acting on the rod between the back and forward cast. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Thu Mar 29 05:10:52 2001 f2TBApS25040 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Bob,Can't you just hold strips behind the exhaust of one of thosefirebreathers you ride??? 8^)Art At 08:49 PM 03/28/2001 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote:Brian,Flamethrowers work just fine... OH, Sorry... you meant on cane, huh? Bob -----Original Message-----From: Brian Creek Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 8:08 PMSubject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope! Flame throwers don't work. Fuel's a gel and sticks to the cane and burnstoo long. Makes a hell of a mess. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope! Brian from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 29 06:55:21 2001 f2TCtFS26119 Subject: Re: Bob Petti's review of Technology of fly rods book? Arrrrrh, THE BATS!!!!!! At 12:47 AM 3/29/01 -0500, Dennishigham@cs.com wrote:Harry-I just had a lady on my airplane who, I think, has your baggie. Afterrolling a joint and lighting up on the airplane she realized her mistake, so sheran to the bathroom to finish. With flight attendants banging in the lav door, she flushed the smoking evidence and tossed your baggie into the toilet. Walking confidently back to her seat (no evidence=no crime) she realizedshe hadn't flushed the bag! Flight attendents recovered your baggie and wanted her met by police and charged with conspiracy to commit cannabis, mother rapeing/father rapeing and anything else the police could think of ! Thiswas about the time our lady of cannabis realized how much she paid for the bag and demanded it back! We explained the we'd be happy to return the bag toher and when we arrived in Chicago she could explain to the nice Chicago policemen what she was doing with a plastic baggie of funny leaves. She deceided she really hadn't paid that much for the bag and it really wasn't hers, she just found it in the seatback pocket. The/your(?) bag was turned over to the Chicago police on arrival and, if you really want it back, Ican give you a phone number for the nice policewoman who took it away. Youwill, of course, have to identify the missing bag! Best, Dennis Troy,Nope, lost that bag a long, long time ago... But once in a while I stillthink about searching for it. When that happens, I lie down and take a nap tillthe urge goes away. I can't find it either, but maybe Bob Petti will jump inhere and tell me what happened to it... Harry "Miller, Troy" wrote: I couldn't find it either (but there were several other good reviews thatwere interesting.....) Preacher, you haven't been dipping into that baggiethat you saved from the seventies, have you....? : ) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Mar 29 08:30:28 2001 f2TEURS28473 IAA26754 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:30:29 Subject: Re: What torch for flaming cane? When I wanted a torch for my "Pipe of Fire" flamer (thanks, Carsten)I wanted something that would run off ordinary disposable propanecylinders, not the refillable tank since I really don't have anyother use for those nor a good place to store it outside my house.So I ended up with a Berzomatic torch made for burning weeds, melting ice etc. It is shaped like a walking cane, about 2+ feetlong with a big, soft flame. You have probable seen them in thestores. It cost about US$25 at Menards. Of course I had to modify the shape a little but thats what hacksaws are for. The flame is just right for the job, I think.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rgelder@excite.ca Thu Mar 29 08:53:38 2001 f2TErcS29312 ;Thu, 29 Mar 2001 06:53:34 -0800 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Is this really Peter Mckean or did Dr. Suess join the list unannounced? On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:30:01 +1000, petermckean@netspace.net.au wrote: Tony, your screed for the stressing of caneHas bloody well gone and formatted my brain;My circuits are numb, my synapses hateful -Can you rescue my cortex ? I'd really be grateful. Has left me with a case of acquired "abrainia".The cortex is gone, the cerebrum is rootedAnd what's left in my head just cannot be booted; There are various parts of my body whose functionIs sorely in need of some real Extreme Unction;My brain, like my scrotum, is in a rough patch -But at least the latter is still handy to scratch! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: "rodmakers" Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 12:56 PMSubject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! You are of course right.But, for anybody wanting to design a rod matamaticaly this may beusefulormay not if I've got my reasoning wrong.The Garrison math obviously works but I'd suggest it's very good forcomparing rod actions but not so hot for designing one. happytowork my way through them but for any rocket scientists out there inthesubether it may be an interesting way to spend a bit of time on. Tony At 05:34 PM 3/28/01 -0700, channer wrote:And that, in a nutshell , is a damn fine reason to design rodsempirically. Stopall this , you guys are giving me a headache!John Tony Young wrote: I know what I'm going to suggest is way inside the bounds ofreductioadabsurdum but when I worked through the Garrison maths a few yearsbackwhen Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding the stresses at specificpointsof therod would be fine if all you were doing was deciding on minimumstrength ofbeams but not quite right when applied to rods because the action ofarodisn't just it's resistance to stresses at specific points but therelationshipof the continually altering forces acting on the rod thatcontinuallyalterover the entire rod simultaneously and in particular the dynamics ofthechangein forces acting on the rod between the back and forward cast. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right lawsIgiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ Ron ElderTroutchaser Rod Co.Calgary, ABwww.troutchaser.com _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Mar 29 09:33:15 2001 f2TFXFS01520 2001 07:33:16 PST Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! bill, the taper is in george maurers book. it is theunnamed 7'9"5wt. it is deliquet and willowy...a littleslower than most peoples tastes i have found. it is mycup of tea. do you have the book? timothy --- Bill Walters wrote:Timothy, a rod that makes you ooo-and-ah is a strongenough endorsement for me. What make and length isitand is a taper available? Bill Walters--- timothy troester wrote:john, i am inclined to agree. i thought i had agoodpicture in my head for what was going on now i amconfused and have a headache. :-) now i'm going tohave to read some more traver to get it again. isayif it makes you tingle you did it right. i built arodlast spring that makes me ooo-and-ah every time icastit...draw that on a graph. :-) timothy --- channer wrote:And that, in a nutshell , is a damn fine reasontodesign rods empirically. Stopall this , you guys are giving me a headache!John Tony Young wrote: I know what I'm going to suggest is way insidethebounds of reductio adabsurdum but when I worked through theGarrisonmaths a few years back when Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding thestresses at specific points of therod would be fine if all you were doing wasdeciding on minimum strength ofbeams but not quite right when applied to rodsbecause the action of a rodisn't just it's resistance to stresses atspecificpoints but the relationshipof the continually altering forces acting ontherod that continually alterover the entire rod simultaneously and inparticular the dynamics of thechangein forces acting on the rod between the backandforward cast.It struck me that the problem was more aquestionof a differential of allpoints working simultaneously as in the caseofworking out the trajectoryof aprojectile or rocket but it's been too longsinceI had to even think aboutallthat stuff too much and I can't confess tohavingbeing a rocket scientistwhenI did have to so I thought this must have beenconsidered before and that Iwaswrong in my thinking. Interestingly, just a few days ago I saw adocumentary on the Midis Principlewhich was developed to completely eliminateallrisk in trading on the stockmarket by allowing a trader to safely hedgeanyposition by being able todecide what the true value of an option was atanytime thus allowing one totake or sell an option to maintain a hedge.Thisformula worked for a whileandmade people stupefying amounts of moolah. Of course like any formula all the variablesneedto be known and while themarket behaved as it always has all was welluntilthe Asian crash andRussia'sdefault on debt took place, the variableschangedand the formula ceased towork then the money flowed in the wrongdirection While watching this, the basic formula whichmathematicians had beenworking onand modifying to suit the real worldcontinuouslywas explained and it struckme that while it was wayyyy over this mentalmidget's head that the idea ofdeciding on a certain fixed point to define avalue then move to the nextfixedpoint and doing the sums again then stuffingallthis data into a verycomplicated formula to get a unified resultbasedon the measurement of valuestaken independently of all the other almostinfinite points was a bitGarrisonish. The maths was as you'd imaging tricky but oneofthe mathamagicians decided toincorporate the formula used to work out thetrajectory of a missile which isdone by calculating all points of the pathsimultaneously, now this reallymademe sit up and take notice because it seemed tomethat these values are alldependant on the dynamic values during motionandnot static values at fixedpoints. Using this formula it's possible toknowthe exact value at any pointbased on a known value at a specific point andtheformula is small andelegant. I found it interesting anyhow. But I mentionitbecause if anybody wanted towrite a rod designing program it's be a bit ofawaste to just re invent thewheel using the same math that's been used foryears *if* this midis principlewas useful which I would think could well be. Tony At 05:31 AM 3/28/01 -0800, Jerry Madiganwrote: The Garrison math is all about stress permaterial unit at each pointandthe stiffness and stresses all along therodimpact other pointsalong the rod. The ferrules represent asignificant departure inboth size and material type. Both of thoseelements completelychange the characteristics of that sectionand,in turn, impact whatstresses are passed on to neighboring areas. As a very simple example, do the Gariisonstresscurves show the highstress point just abave a ferrule? No. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is acraftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain andheartis an artist. As required in accordance with new draconianAustralian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to === message truncated === ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from bhoy551@earthlink.net Thu Mar 29 13:39:27 2001 f2TJdQS12085 Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:39:13 -0500 Subject: test, ignore FILETIME=[EEE2F180:01C0B887] Sorry, guys. New email system. bh from stpete@netten.net Thu Mar 29 16:05:59 2001 f2TM5wS17766 Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:11:37 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bob Petti's review of Technology of fly rods book? The Gonzo Rodmaker revealed. Perhaps I should start saving up for tripSouth. RC Tony Young wrote: Arrrrrh, THE BATS!!!!!! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 29 17:07:05 2001 f2TN73S21422 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Peter,your reply is worthy of the one and true People's Poet. I never had anydoubts :-) Tony At 09:30 PM 3/29/01 +1000, Peter McKean wrote:Tony, your screed for the stressing of caneHas bloody well gone and formatted my brain;My circuits are numb, my synapses hateful -Can you rescue my cortex ? I'd really be grateful. Has left me with a case of acquired "abrainia".The cortex is gone, the cerebrum is rootedAnd what's left in my head just cannot be booted; There are various parts of my body whose functionIs sorely in need of some real Extreme Unction;My brain, like my scrotum, is in a rough patch -But at least the latter is still handy to scratch! Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 29 17:14:39 2001 f2TNEbS22231 Subject: Re: Bob Petti's review of Technology of fly rods book? rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu :-) The secrete handshake. See you there! Tony At 04:03 PM 3/29/01 -0500, Rick Crenshaw wrote:The Gonzo Rodmaker revealed. Perhaps I should start saving up for tripSouth. RC Tony Young wrote: Arrrrrh, THE BATS!!!!!! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Mar 29 18:00:52 2001 f2U00pS24108 Subject: Re: Nyatex replacement - Polyurethane ? --part1_bb.cebe37a.27f52692_boundary Harry, I will be pleased to send a report. You are, of course, assuming that I will need to straighten. 8>) Mark Cole --part1_bb.cebe37a.27f52692_boundary Harry,I will be pleased to send a report. You are, of course, assumingthat I will Mark Cole --part1_bb.cebe37a.27f52692_boundary-- from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Mar 29 19:16:15 2001 f2U1GDS25940 Subject: Silk? Nylon? Flyline This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B827.AD991520 I just bought 3 fly lines from an antique shop.They were not that expensive, about $6 - $10.2 of them were still in their original packaging.One of them was clearly marked "Westfeild TaperedFly line Nylon" Size HCG 30 yrds. It was clearly never used and it was =Tapered so I bought it . There was another beside it labeled "Woodstock =Floating soft finish flyline" 25 yrdslevel size C. I thought it might be a silk line, So I bought it too. =However I learned later It was also a nylon line.Any ways the are both braided, just like the silk lines.I had the chance to cast a silk line recently. I thought that the silk =line thing was just hype. But once again I was wrong. I was Amazed to =say the least. But when I learnedof the price. I was stunned($90- $200) . Now I'm used to paying allot = much to swallow for a line. So I thought I would search for some old =silk lines. So can Anyone tell me if the nylon will cast like the silk =and any care and maintenance. Also I'm not familiar with the sizes. Any = Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B827.AD991520 shop.They were not that expensive, about packaging.One of them was clearly marked = Tapered = beside it labeled "Woodstock Floating soft finish flyline" 25 =yrdslevel size C. I thought it might be a = I bought it too. However I learned later It was also a nylon =line.Any ways the are both braided, just = I had the chance to cast a silk line = learnedof the price. I was stunned($90- $200)= Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B827.AD991520-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Mar 29 19:30:41 2001 f2U1UeS26299 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:27:09 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Silk? Nylon? Flyline Hi Tony,if you look in Gierach's "Fishing Bamboo" you'll find aconversion chart for line sizes. It might be somewhere on Reed's web pagetoo. If you still can't find it, let me know and I'll dig the informationup on the weekend and post it on Monday. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Silk? Nylon? Flyline I just bought 3 fly lines from an antique shop.They were not that expensive, about $6 - $10.2 of them were still in their original packaging.One of them was clearly marked "Westfeild TaperedFly line Nylon" Size HCG 30 yrds. It was clearly never used and it wasTapered so I bought it . There was another beside it labeled "WoodstockFloating soft finish flyline" 25 yrdslevel size C. I thought it might be a silk line, So I bought it too. HoweverI learned later It was also a nylon line.Any ways the are both braided, just like the silk lines.I had the chance to cast a silk line recently. I thought that the silk linething was just hype. But once again I was wrong. I was Amazed to say theleast. But when I learnedof the price. I was stunned($90- $200) . Now I'm used to paying allot for mygear , and I realize that silk last a long time. But a little too much toswallow for a line. So I thought I would search for some old silk lines. Socan Anyone tell me if the nylon will cast like the silk and any care andmaintenance. Also I'm not familiar with the sizes. Any help would beappreciated. If I'm out of $16 no big deal so fire away. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from setissma@email.msn.com Thu Mar 29 19:31:42 2001 f2U1VgS26428 Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:31:41 -0800 Subject: Paul Young Para-15 FILETIME=[2CAC16F0:01C0B8B9] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0B890.75679D20 This one was recommended to me as an unusual rod that would be fun to =build and fish. I am in the process of making it using dimensions from =Elser and Maurer's book. Their taper specifies "dry fly tip". Does =anyone know if this rod had a wet fly tip with different dimensions? If =so, I would love to have the taper. Thanks, Jeff Schaeffer ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0B890.75679D20 This one was recommended to me as an= that would be fun to build and fish. I am in the process of making it = dimensions from Elser and Maurer's book. Their taper specifies "dry fly = Does anyone know if this rod had a wet fly tip with different = I would love to have the taper. Thanks, Jeff =Schaeffer ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0B890.75679D20-- from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Mar 29 19:41:54 2001 f2U1frS26841 (5.5.2653.19) RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Paul Young Para-15 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B8B9.FBB7C840 it's hardly what i would consider and "unusual rod", as it might be the mostcommon of the Paul H. Young rods sold. there is a whole underground ofcanerod afficianadoes whose following of mr. Young is almost cult-like (i'vebeen collecting his tapers myself, and have built a few, and cast quite afew originals). the wet tip and dry tip are both posted on the rodmakers taper page. checkthe archives a couple of months back and you'll find a post of eight or soPHY tapers that i posted for general consumption. if you like parabolic rods, there's nothing "unusual" at all about thesweet, powerful casting of the para 15. chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Paul Young Para-15 This one was recommended to me as an unusual rod that would be fun tobuildand fish. I am in the process of making it using dimensions from Elser andMaurer's book. Their taper specifies "dry fly tip". Does anyone know if thisrod had a wet fly tip with different dimensions? If so, I would love to havethe taper. Thanks, Jeff Schaeffer ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B8B9.FBB7C840 it's hardly what i would consider and "unusual rod", as it might be the mostcommon rod afficianadoes whose following of mr. Young is almost cult-like (i've been collecting his tapers myself, and have built a few, and cast quite a few originals). the check the archives a couple of months back and you'll find a post of eight or so PHY tapers that i posted for general consumption. if you like parabolic rods, there's nothing "unusual" at all about the sweet, powerful casting of the para 15. chris -----Original Message-----From: setissma 2001 5:40 Young Para-15This one was recommended to me as anunusual rod that would be fun to build and fish. I am in the process of making it using dimensions from Elser and Maurer's book. Their taper specifies "dry fly tip". Does anyone know if this rod had a wet fly tip with different dimensions? If so, I would love to have the taper. Thanks, Jeff Schaeffer ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B8B9.FBB7C840-- from dblanken@rica.net Thu Mar 29 19:47:22 2001 f2U1lLS27153 Subject: granger question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0B892.AD790760 Got a rod in my shop today for evaluation/repair. 8' Granger Special =3pc 4wt. Overall, the rod is in pretty good shape. A few guides have =been poorly re-wrapped, one of 3 tips (tip one wraps match the butt/mid, = My question for today is this, Oh rodmakers with the knowing of a lot of =things... The reel seat is off set 90 degrees from the guide flat. =Otherwise, it does not appear to have been removed and re-set. Tight =fit against the grip, patented uplocking seat functional and smooth. =Could there have been a reason for this offset that I'm not seeing? How = Any advice/information would be appreciated. Thanks, David ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0B892.AD790760 Any advice/information would be = Thanks, David ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0B892.AD790760-- from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Mar 29 20:01:22 2001 f2U21LS27691 Subject: Re: granger question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C0B82E.6F519D80 DavidThis is a educated guess here.So don't consider it word.But I think maybe it is set up for a side mount previous owner turned it himself I can't say.But that would be a reason it is 90 degrees off.Are you familiar with side mount fly reels?Tony Miller ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C0B82E.6F519D80 DavidThis is a educated guess =here.So don't consider itword.But I think maybe it is set up for a = mountfly reel. Whether or not it came that = previous owner turned it himself I = say.But that would be a reason it is 90 = off. reels?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C0B82E.6F519D80-- from Dennishigham@cs.com Thu Mar 29 20:03:58 2001 f2U23vS27887 Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 Paul made different versions of most/all of his tapers. Here's the wet fly/heavy tip for the P.T. Kellum version of the Para15.0= .078, 6 = .096, 12 = .121, 18 = .133, 24 = .157, 30 = .183, 36 = .196,42 = .15, 48 = .234, Paul Young's original tapers were on 6"centers usually measured from thebutt end forward.here's the rest of the #'s for those w/out the Kellum version...Light/dryfly tip = 0 = .070, 6 = .090, 12 = .115, 18 = .130, 24 = .154, 30 = .170, 36 = .193, 42 = .215, 48 = .234Butt = 0 = .236, 6 = .250, 12 = .260, 18 = .270, 24 = .280, 30 = .295, 36 = .300, 42 = .300, 48 = .300 thanks to Wayne C. for these #'s Dennis from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Mar 29 20:06:13 2001 f2U26CS28112 Subject: Ohio Hey, anyone in Springfield Ohio area, i will be working at the school there on April 28 and will have a few hours free. is there anyone around there i can check your shop out, go fishing with whatever?mark "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and swill beer the rest of his life." ~ JVG from b2g@jps.net Thu Mar 29 20:36:42 2001 f2U2afS29046 0000 Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 Organization: Badges 2 Go This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0B887.77AE9600 Jeff Check on this web site =http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/pyoung/youngp15.html it hasboth =taper stress curves in one chart to compare them together. Robert H. Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 6:40 PMSubject: Paul Young Para-15 This one was recommended to me as an unusual rod that would be fun to =build and fish. I am in the process of making it using dimensions from =Elser and Maurer's book. Their taper specifies "dry fly tip". Does =anyone know if this rod had a wet fly tip with different dimensions? If =so, I would love to have the taper. Thanks, Jeff Schaeffer ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0B887.77AE9600 Jeff Check on this web site htt= together. Robert H. ----- Original Message ----- setissma Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001= PMSubject: Paul Young =Para-15 This one was recommended to me asan = that would be fun to build and fish. I am in the process of making it = dimensions from Elser and Maurer's book. Their taper specifies "dry = Does anyone know if this rod had a wet fly tip with different = so, I would love to have the taper. Thanks, Schaeffer ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C0B887.77AE9600-- from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Mar 29 20:48:52 2001 f2U2mpS29593 Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 Here is the Para 15 from the Young Company web site. They pretty wellcoverthe rod's virtues. Brian Parabolic 15,8"0" - 4 oz. - 15/64 Ferrule,.070 & .078 Tips5 & 6 Weight LinesMedium Fast Action with .070 TipModified Parabolic Action with .078 Tip loyal devotee of this rod. The Parabolic 15 is what we believe, as docountless others, to be the most sensational rod for all around troutfishing ever created. Years of engineering and testing by some of America'smost noted fly fishers went into its design. With the .070 tip, the Para 15virtually covers the field of light terminal trout fishing. The .078 tip ofa different taper, enables its user to efficiently use nymphs, streamers,and attractor patterns with ease. The Para 15's proving grounds were the larger river systems of Michigan,Wyoming and Montana, where it became critically acclaimed by all who put itto practical use. With its renowned power, graceful presentations, andmultipurpose versatility, the Parabolic 15 remains as one of fly fishinghistory's most significant designs. from GriffinJohn@msn.com Thu Mar 29 20:54:04 2001 f2U2s3S29887 Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:53:59 -0800 Subject: Taper Chart: Hardy Fairchild 8 1/2' 3 Piece Fly Rod =_NextPart_001_0007_01C0B898.7029C7E0" FILETIME=[AB3C2400:01C0B8C4] ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C0B898.7029C7E0 A special thanks to Ian, Rich, M-D, Jerry, Tony, Shawn and other list mem=bers for helping revive this old British lass. Assembled rod, as measured from tip top; diameter across the guides flat: 0" 0.077" (actually, @ 1")5" 0.092"10" 0.107"15" 0.123"20" 0.134"25" 0.145"30" 0.156" (mid/tip ferrule) 35" 0.174"40" 0.186"45" 0.195"50" 0.202"55" 0.212"60" 0.224"65" 0.239" (butt/mid ferrule) 70" 0.244" (actually, @ 71")75" 0.259"80" 0.277"85" 0.288"90" 0.309"95" (Under cork; no noticeable swelled butt past 90", cork begins at 91.=5" 0.317") 102" (exact length overall)Get your FREE download of =MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.c=om ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C0B898.7029C7E0 Respondingto = t= 0"= 0.15= = (actual= 0.277" = 95"&nbs=p; (Under cork; no noticeable swelled butt past 90", cork begins at 91.5"=0.317") 100" (Under cork) 102" (exact lengthover= t your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C0B898.7029C7E0-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Mar 29 21:17:43 2001 f2U3HgS01015 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Silk? Nylon? Flyline Tony,One of the benefits of silk lines is their density. Nylon lines are one to two lines weights lighter for the same diameter.I must have a dozen charts of the line diameter system and itssupposed correlary in the AFTMA line weight system. No two agree and, because of the many different braid patterns, varnishes, etc, none are reliable. Why not just take it out and match it to a rod? http://www.overmywaders.com/articles/cleaningsilk.htmlGood luck.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/Tony Miller wrote: I just bought 3 fly lines from an antique shop. They were not that expensive, about $6 - $10. 2 of them were still in their original packaging. One of them was clearly marked "Westfeild Tapered Fly line Nylon" Size HCG 30 yrds. It was clearly never used and it was Tapered so I bought it . There was another beside it labeled "Woodstock Floating soft finish flyline" 25 yrds level size C. I thought it might be a silk line, So I bought it too. However I learned later It was also a nylon line. Any ways the are both braided, just like the silk lines. I had the chance to cast a silk line recently. I thought that the silk line thing was just hype. But once again I was wrong. I was Amazed to say the least. But when I learned of the price. I was stunned($90- $200) .. Now I'm used to paying allot much to swallow for a line. So I thought I would search for some old silk lines. So can Anyone tell me if the nylon will cast like the silk and any care and maintenance. Also I'm not familiar with the sizes. Any help would be appreciated. If I'm out of $16 no big deal so fire away. Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html -- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Mar 29 21:26:22 2001 f2U3QLS01415 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Silk? Nylon? Flyline This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0B886.170F9700 Tony, I'm surprised you didn't see the silk line chart on my website... http://vfish.net/silklinechart.htm You tell us how good/bad the braided nylon works... Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 5:10 AM Subject: Silk? Nylon? Flyline I just bought 3 fly lines from an antique shop.They were not that expensive, about $6 - $10.2 of them were still in their original packaging.One of them was clearly marked "Westfeild TaperedFly line Nylon" Size HCG 30 yrds. It was clearly never used and it wasTapered so I bought it . There was another beside it labeled "WoodstockFloating soft finish flyline" 25 yrdslevel size C. I thought it might be a silk line, So I bought it too.However I learned later It was also a nylon line.Any ways the are both braided, just like the silk lines.I had the chance to cast a silk line recently. I thought that the silkline thing was just hype. But once again I was wrong. I was Amazed to saythe least. But when I learnedof the price. I was stunned($90- $200) . Now I'm used to paying allot formy gear , and I realize that silk last a long time. But a little too much toswallow for a line. So I thought I would search for some old silk lines. Socan Anyone tell me if the nylon will cast like the silk and any care andmaintenance. Also I'm not familiar with the sizes. Any help would beappreciated. If I'm out of $16 no big deal so fire away.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0B886.170F9700 Tony, website... http://vfish.net/silklinechar= tell us how good/bad the braided nylon works... Darrellwww.vfish.net MillerSent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 5:10 Flyline antique shop.They were not that expensive, about = packaging.One of them was clearly marked = TaperedFly line Nylon" Size HCG 30 = yrdslevel size C. I thought it might be a = line.Any ways the are both braided, just = I had the chance to cast a silk line = learnedof the price. I was stunned($90- = would search for some old silk lines. So can Anyone tell me if the = will cast like the silk and any care and maintenance. Also I'm not = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C0B886.170F9700-- from miangler@yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 01:30:54 2001 f2U7UrS06086 2001 23:30:54 PST Subject: More dumb questions... I am needy! Ok, I got the Bernz-O-Matic T4000 and flamed a pieceof cane. What ended up happening was I got a nicecolor, but when I went to do a break test it justsnapped. When I tried to straighten a node, itcracked... what exactly did I do wrong? What is theactual procedure? How far from the culm should I beholding the torch? How long do I expose it to theflame? After spending $35 on the Bernz, I am sad tosee that the MSC torch only costs $15. Has anyone ever "flamed" a piece of cane with a heatgun, why wouldn't it work? I have a Craftsman HeavyDuty heat gun (that I am having a heck of a timefinding a flat diffuser for) with a temp range of 220*to 1100* I bought this gun because I wanted a goodone to fire up a heat gun oven with (can anyone giveme a few tips on building one by the way?) I am also in need of some tips on calibrating my dialgauge, I don't think my Enco base is wide enough, thetip sticks out the bottom. I have never worked withan indicator or a caliper for that matter... I amworried about precision. Please respond off list! Last item: I ordered a rough form and some glacethread from Munro a few days ago and have not heard from the guy! Is this par for the course with him orwhat? I really want to get started here! Thanks! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Fri Mar 30 01:45:24 2001 f2U7jMS06476 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:43:20 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) avyoung@iinet.net.au Subject: RE: New taper design program needs your input! Peter,consider yourself the newly appointed "Poet Laureate" of the list.Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Tony, your screed for the stressing of caneHas bloody well gone and formatted my brain;My circuits are numb, my synapses hateful -Can you rescue my cortex ? I'd really be grateful. Has left me with a case of acquired "abrainia".The cortex is gone, the cerebrum is rootedAnd what's left in my head just cannot be booted; There are various parts of my body whose functionIs sorely in need of some real Extreme Unction;My brain, like my scrotum, is in a rough patch -But at least the latter is still handy to scratch! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! You are of course right.But, for anybody wanting to design a rod matamaticaly this may be usefulormay not if I've got my reasoning wrong.The Garrison math obviously works but I'd suggest it's very good forcomparing rod actions but not so hot for designing one. towork my way through them but for any rocket scientists out there in thesubether it may be an interesting way to spend a bit of time on. Tony At 05:34 PM 3/28/01 -0700, channer wrote:And that, in a nutshell , is a damn fine reason to design rodsempirically. Stopall this , you guys are giving me a headache!John Tony Young wrote: I know what I'm going to suggest is way inside the bounds of reductioadabsurdum but when I worked through the Garrison maths a few yearsbackwhen Igot THE BOOK it struck me that finding the stresses at specific pointsof therod would be fine if all you were doing was deciding on minimumstrength ofbeams but not quite right when applied to rods because the action of arodisn't just it's resistance to stresses at specific points but therelationshipof the continually altering forces acting on the rod that continuallyalterover the entire rod simultaneously and in particular the dynamics ofthechangein forces acting on the rod between the back and forward cast. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 30 04:41:54 2001 f2UAfrS08997 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: granger question --------------C29C94EC397AECD441579F81 Hi David, I have seen Granger Specials with what appears to be 2different color silks on the same rod but what is in fact the same colorsilk that has faded to 2 different colors. The Granger green fades to ayellow color. The difference in color can be section to section. I amsure the seat was removed and replaced wrong. The seat is very easy toremove. There are no pins so just heat and pull. Marty David Blankenship wrote: Got a rod in my shop today for evaluation/repair. 8' Granger Special3pc 4wt. Overall, the rod is in pretty good shape. A few guides havebeen poorly re- wrapped, one of 3 tips (tip one wraps match thebutt/mid, the other two are slightly darker) is about 6-8 inchesshort. My question for today is this, Oh rodmakers with the knowing ofa lot of things... The reel seat is off set 90 degrees from the guideflat. Otherwise, it does not appear to have been removed and re-set.Tight fit against the grip, patented uplocking seat functional andsmooth. Could there have been a reason for this offset that I'm notseeing? How were the seats fixed on these rods? Anyadvice/information would be appreciated. Thanks, David --------------C29C94EC397AECD441579F81 Hi David, I have seen Granger Specials with what appears to be 2 differentcolor silks on the same rod but what is in fact the same color silk thathas faded to 2 different colors. The Granger green fades to a yellow color.The difference in color can be section to section. I am sure the seat wasremoved and replaced wrong. The seat is very easy to remove. There areno pins so just heat and pull. MartyDavid Blankenship wrote: Got have been poorly re-wrapped, one of 3 tips (tip one wraps match thebutt/mid,the other two are slightly darker) is about 6-8 inches question for today is this, Oh rodmakers with the knowing of a lot of --------------C29C94EC397AECD441579F81-- from miangler@yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 08:45:02 2001 f2UEj1S13417 2001 06:44:59 PST Subject: another question...... Just got my planing forms back from the maker. I ranmy finger over the butt section and noticed two smallspots where it looks like the groove cutting tool bita hair too deep. Will this effect the final product? I have been trying to think of how it might. Hopefully its not a big deal. It just produces aslight dip and both are less than an inch long. Am Iworrying for nothing? Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 08:53:26 2001 f2UErPS13901 2001 06:53:26 PST Subject: Re: Silk? Nylon? Flyline Tony, Here's how I justified silk: You can take a 90' DT line, cut it in two and attach a modernfloating running line/level line to the back end (cost =$20 per100'). You then have the silk head with plenty of running linebehind it. The heavier Cortland running line (.033) works well wit 5wgts. I like Teeny running line in gyellow (.032) for 4's and thefiner Cortland (.031) or Teeny orange (.030) for 3's. I attached the lines by using the tail end of the Cortland leaderloop rig. I cut off the loop to get the fiber tube (about 2-1/2"-3")and slide and two 3/16" pieces of the yellow shrink wrap that comeswith it on the silk line. Then I cut off the silk and plastic linesat an angle and "scarfed" them together with a droplet of superglue. That joint is not strong, but it is just meant to keep thelines in algnment until the joingt is reinforced. This way, youwon't have any kink at all due to the overlap of the scarf. Afterthey are joined, I slip half or the fiber tube over the plastic lineand shrink the yellow tubes over the exposed ends of the fiber tube (you may have to trim some stry fibers first). Then add a drop ofsuper glue through fiber tube onto the scarf joint and small drops onthe fiber tube near the yellow shrink wraps. Wherever you put onsuper glue, the fiber tube/line combo will get stiff - so make itthree small spots, not all along the tube. What you end up with is apretty smooth, flexible and very strong joint that you can shooteasily. Cost for a line: (if you can share): 1/2 of Thebault DT $551/2 of running line $10Loop $1.50 Total = $66.50 The other benefit is that there is less silk to dry and treat in theevening. Hope I didn't gross anybody out. --- Tony Miller wrote:I just bought 3 fly lines from an antique shop.They were not that expensive, about $6 - $10.2 of them were still in their original packaging.One of them was clearly marked "Westfeild TaperedFly line Nylon" Size HCG 30 yrds. It was clearly never used and itwas Tapered so I bought it . There was another beside it labeled"Woodstock Floating soft finish flyline" 25 yrdslevel size C. I thought it might be a silk line, So I bought ittoo. However I learned later It was also a nylon line.Any ways the are both braided, just like the silk lines.I had the chance to cast a silk line recently. I thought that thesilk line thing was just hype. But once again I was wrong. I wasAmazed to say the least. But when I learnedof the price. I was stunned($90- $200) . Now I'm used to payingallot for my gear , and I realize that silk last a long time. But alittle too much to swallow for a line. So I thought I would search cast like the silk and any care and maintenance. Also I'm notfamiliar with the sizes. Any help would be appreciated. If I'm outof $16 no big deal so fire away. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Mar 30 09:29:34 2001 f2UFTYS15460 Subject: Starrett & General 60 degree gages Can anyone lead me in the best direction to aquire these gages? Thanks.-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Fri Mar 30 09:38:29 2001 f2UFcTS15956 Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I may have missed it but, as far as I know, no taper for the Keller version of the Para 15 had been published before Dennis (many thanks!) gave us the numbers for the Keller heavy tip. According to Schwiebert, the Keller had a "radical ... slow-action butt." Are there numbers available somewhere for the light tip and butt of the Keller that I missed? If not, Dennis, would you be willing to share? Of course, it's just possible that Schwiebert mistook a heavier tip Para 15 for a lighter butt.-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from setissma@email.msn.com Fri Mar 30 09:58:57 2001 f2UFwvS16826 Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:58:52 -0800 Subject: Medved Beveler- formerly big trouble, now an asset FILETIME=[510E9F30:01C0B932] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C0B892.6F129A40 About two weeks ago, I requested advice about a rather troublesome =Medved Beveler. Got many thoughtful responses, and incorporated almost =every suggestion in some way. The bottom line is that it now works =beautifully. A carbide tipped router blade combined with slow feeding =and very light material removal was the answer. That and practice with a =few scraps. My greatest mistake was trying to take off too much cane in =each pass. As you feed the bamboo through the blade, the cuttings should =look like snow, with only a few long strips. If you are seeing large or =long pieces, or it looks like multiple strips are flying up from the =same place, you are taking off to much and about to experience disaster. One other thing to note: a properly designed beveler has a plexiglass =screen in front of the bed. This is apparent in some photos and =drawings, but it isn't obvious how important it is. No matter how =carefully you work, you fingers are extremely close to a blade that is =rotating at 25,000 rpms. Be careful, and be sure and include the safety =screen when you build it.I was in a hurry to get it to work, and did not bother. Luckily, the = Jeff Schaeffer ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C0B892.6F129A40 About two weeks ago, I requestedadvice = incorporated almost every suggestion in some way. The bottom line is = and very light material removal was the answer. That and practice with a = scraps. My greatest mistake was trying to take off too much cane in each = As you feed the bamboo through the blade, the cuttings should look like = with only a few long strips. If you are seeing large or long pieces, or = like multiple strips are flying up from the same place, you are taking = much and about to experience disaster. One other thing to note: a properly = beveler has a plexiglass screen in front of the bed. This is apparent in = photos and drawings, but it isn't obvious how important it is. No matter = carefully you work, you fingers are extremely close to a blade that is = at 25,000 rpms. Be careful, and be sure and include the safety screen = build it.I was in a hurry to get it to work, and = bother. Luckily, the blade only got my glove. Jeff =Schaeffer ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C0B892.6F129A40-- from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 30 10:06:33 2001 f2UG6WS17385 Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 Grayson I will be at the club this weekend. If Schweibert is there I willask him about the rod.....Rich-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 I may have missed it but, as far as I know, no taper forthe Keller version of the Para 15 had been published beforeDennis (many thanks!) gave us the numbers for theKeller heavy tip. According to Schwiebert, the Keller hada "radical ... slow-action butt." Are there numbersavailable somewhere for the light tip and butt of theKeller that I missed? If not, Dennis, would you be willingto share? Of course, it's just possible that Schwiebert mistook aheavier tip Para 15 for a lighter butt.-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 30 10:29:30 2001 f2UGTTS18754 f2UGTRUd005308;Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:29:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 There are two tips for the PHY Para #15 in the Rodmaker's archives I think.GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Mar 30 10:34:20 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f2UGYJS19223 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Medved Beveler- formerly big trouble, now an asset This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B936.43423980 Appreciate the report on your results. Now that it works, I have a questionthat comes to mind every time I read about these rigs and the need to feedslowly and take off just a little material at a time. This is probably anunfair question after all you've gone through to get this to work! But bythe time you slowly feed the strips through the machine, and do thismultiple times, does it really save time compared to a sharp plane and aroughing form? I only ask because I'm thinking of building one, too. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Medved Beveler- formerly big trouble, now an asset About two weeks ago, I requested advice about a rather troublesome MedvedBeveler. Got many thoughtful responses, and incorporated almost everysuggestion in some way. The bottom line is that it now works beautifully. Acarbide tipped router blade combined with slow feeding and very lightmaterial removal was the answer. That and practice with a few scraps. Mygreatest mistake was trying to take off too much cane in each pass. As youfeed the bamboo through the blade, the cuttings should look like snow, withonly a few long strips. If you are seeing large or long pieces, or it lookslike multiple strips are flying up from the same place, you are taking offto much and about to experience disaster. One other thing to note: a properly designed beveler has a plexiglass screenin front of the bed. This is apparent in some photos and drawings, but itisn't obvious how important it is. No matter how carefully you work, youfingers are extremely close to a blade that is rotating at 25,000 rpms. Becareful, and be sure and include the safety screen when you build it.I was in a hurry to get it to work, and did not bother. Luckily, the bladeonly got my glove. Jeff Schaeffer ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B936.43423980 0DocumentEmail A=ppreciatethe report on your results. Now that it works, I have a question that =comes tomind every time I read about these rigs and the need to feed slowly and =take offjust a little material at a time. This is probably an unfair question =after allyou've gone through to get this to work! But by the time you slowly =feed thestrips through the machine, and do this multiple times, does it really =savetime compared to a sharp plane and a roughing form? I only ask because =I'mthinking of building one, too. B=arry -----OriginalMessage-----From: setissma Sent: Thursday, March =29, 20017:54 PM RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Medved Beveler-=formerlybig trouble, now an asset Abouttwo weeks ago, I requested advice about a rather troublesome Medved =Beveler.Got many thoughtful responses, and incorporated almost every suggestion =in some tippedrouter blade combined with slow feeding and very light material removal =was theanswer. That and practice with a few scraps. My greatest mistake was =trying totake off too much cane in each pass. As you feed the bamboo through the =blade,the cuttings should look like snow, with only a few long strips. If you =areseeing large or long pieces, or it looks like multiple strips are =flying up from the same place, you are taking off to much and about to experiencedisaster. Oneother thing to note: a properly designed beveler has a plexiglass =screen infront of the bed. This is apparent in some photos and drawings, but it =isn'tobvious how important it is. No matter how carefully you work, you =fingers areextremely close to a blade that is rotating at 25,000 rpms. Be careful, =and besure and include the safety screen when you build =it.= I was ina hurry to get it to work, and did not bother. Luckily, the blade only =got myglove. JeffSchaeffer ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B936.43423980-- from cadams46@juno.com Fri Mar 30 11:23:20 2001 f2UHNJS21409 EST Subject: Aluminum Ferrules I am looking to purchase a set, 2 males, 1 female of aluminum ferrules suppose right now I am pretty open. I'd appreciate an off list reply if anyone has a set they'd part with orknows who I could call. Thanks again gentlemenC.R. Adams from cadams46@juno.com Fri Mar 30 12:16:43 2001 f2UIGcS23511 13:16:05 EST Subject: Re: Aluminum Ferrules Sorry guys I forgot to mention that I am looking for 11/64ths.C.R. Adams from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 30 13:28:41 2001 f2UJSeS26552 Subject: Re: More dumb questions... I am needy! Hi Mike,As I perceive flaming, the idea behind the flaming is mostly cosmetic. Itallows less than perfect bamboo to be used to make a good looking rod. The is why a very hot torch is recommended. You want to change the surfacelayer of bamboo without changing the overall characteristics of the bamboo. If it also provides sufficient heat treating in the process, so much thebetter. I used a torch running from the refillable propane tanks for my lastrod. I ran the torch wide open. Just a brief wave over the bamboo and thesurface was charred. The heat was so high however that only the enameland a thin surface layer were changed. The surface produced a very darkrod but the center of the rod was only dark blonde. Watch the enamel. Youcan see it erupt as you drag the flame across it. The problem with sometorches and heat guns is that they are so slow in heating the bamboo thatthe center of the c!!!ulm can attain near the same temperature as the outside. Then if you flamethis way to a dark result, the inside of the culm is also heated that much. The secret to right flaming is to be able to overheat the surface withoutaffecting the bamboo below the surface. If the interior of the bamboo isallowed to exceed its safe temperature, it will be weakened or ruined. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Ok, I got the Bernz-O-Matic T4000 and flamed a pieceof cane. What ended up happening was I got a nicecolor, but when I went to do a break test it justsnapped. When I tried to straighten a node, itcracked... what exactly did I do wrong? What is theactual procedure? How far from the culm should I beholding the torch? How long do I expose it to theflame? After spending $35 on the Bernz, I am sad tosee that the MSC torch only costs $15. Has anyone ever "flamed" a piece of cane with a heatgun, why wouldn't it work? I have a Craftsman HeavyDuty heat gun (that I am having a heck of a timefinding a flat diffuser for) with a temp range of 220*to 1100* I bought this gun because I wanted a goodone to fire up a heat gun oven with (can anyone giveme a few tips on building one by the way?) from Dennishigham@cs.com Fri Mar 30 14:58:08 2001 f2UKw7S00360 Subject: Re: Paul Young Para-15 Grayson-I included the lt/dryfly tip and butt #'s in the original e-mail.They may have gotten corrupted.... here's a repeat. "Paul made different versions of most/all of his tapers. Here's the wet fly/heavy tip for the P.T. Kellum version of the Para15. 0= .078, 6 = .096, 12 = .121, 18 = .133, 24 = .157, 30 = .183, 36 = .196,42 = .15, 48 = .234, Paul Young's original tapers were on 6"centers usually measured from thebutt end forward.here's the rest of the #'s for those w/out the Kellum version... Light/dryfly tip = 0 = .070, 6 = .090, 12 = .115, 18 = .130, 24 = .154, 30 = .170, 36 = .193, 42 = .215, 48 = .234 Butt = 0 = .236, 6 = .250, 12 = .260, 18 = .270, 24 = .280, 30 = .295, 36 = .300, 42 = .300, 48 = .300 thanks to Wayne C. for these #'s " Dennis from nobler@satx.rr.com Fri Mar 30 15:33:48 2001 f2ULXlS02066 f2ULXjUd019462;Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:33:45 -0600 Subject: Re: More dumb questions... I am needy! Everything PHY wrote to me and all I have read, leads to his "Ring of Fire"definitely tempering the culm, by bonding the lignum in the internal fibers.This lasts throughout the finished rods life, and leads to the superiorperformance from his works.GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Mar 30 16:58:58 2001 f2UMwuS05413 0000 0000 Subject: Delete if not Mike Stevens Mike, Send me your phone number. I misplaced it. Marty from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Mar 30 18:52:49 2001 f2V0qdS09189 Fri, 30 Mar 2001 20:51:56 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: More dumb questions... I am needy! f2V0qmS09194 Mike and Onis, your culm. Onis, flaming is partially cosmetic, but others like myself, othershere on the list, many masters and more notably THE master...Paul Young,believe that it changes the bamboo. flamed rods TEND to be slightly fasterand in my opinion stay straight better if taken care of (personal opiniononly!)The way I (others do it differently) do flaming is that I SLOWLY bring onan even caramel color to the section, always keeping the flame moving, then Ikeep going back over and finally I put the dark mottling on. I work my way from one end to the other. I know some others that completely blacken thewhole outside.Don't give up Mike, once you get the hang of it, flaming is a breeze!Shawn k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: Hi Mike,As I perceive flaming, the idea behind the flaming is mostly cosmetic. Itallows less than perfect bamboo to be used to make a good looking rod. The is why a very hot torch is recommended. You want to change the surfacelayer of bamboo without changing the overall characteristics of the bamboo. If it also provides sufficient heat treating in the process, so much thebetter. I used a torch running from the refillable propane tanks for my lastrod. I ran the torch wide open. Just a brief wave over the bamboo and thesurface was charred. The heat was so high however that only the enameland a thin surface layer were changed. The surface produced a very darkrod but the center of the rod was only dark blonde. Watch the enamel. Youcan see it erupt as you drag the flame across it. The problem with sometorches and heat guns is that they are so slow in heating the bamboo thatthe center of the!c!!!ulm can attain near the same temperature as the outside. Then if youflame this way to a dark result, the inside of the culm is also heated thatmuch. The secret to right flaming is to be able to overheat the surfacewithout affecting the bamboo below the surface. If the interior of thebamboo is allowed to exceed its safe temperature, it will be weakened orruined. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Ok, I got the Bernz-O-Matic T4000 and flamed a pieceof cane. What ended up happening was I got a nicecolor, but when I went to do a break test it justsnapped. When I tried to straighten a node, itcracked... what exactly did I do wrong? What is theactual procedure? How far from the culm should I beholding the torch? How long do I expose it to theflame? After spending $35 on the Bernz, I am sad tosee that the MSC torch only costs $15. Has anyone ever "flamed" a piece of cane with a heatgun, why wouldn't it work? I have a Craftsman HeavyDuty heat gun (that I am having a heck of a timefinding a flat diffuser for) with a temp range of 220*to 1100* I bought this gun because I wanted a goodone to fire up a heat gun oven with (can anyone giveme a few tips on building one by the way?) from johnsabina@home.com Fri Mar 30 19:30:52 2001 f2V1UqS09916 ;Fri, 30 Mar 2001 17:30:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Starrett & General 60 degree gages Todd: Enco has the 60 degree thread gages on page 334 of their catalog. You canorder on-line at www.use-enco.com. JJS----- Original Message ----- Subject: Starrett & General 60 degree gages Can anyone lead me in the best direction to aquire these gages? Thanks.-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from trippma@mindspring.com Fri Mar 30 20:14:16 2001 f2V2EFS10736 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Whew! OK. So far a great deal of excellent discourse... As expected! I am coalescing the replies to the original request for input, and willwrite up a tick list of responses -- both requests for features and ideasconcerning the limitations of Computer Assisted Rod Design. (CARD) Iwill reference which lister said what and post it to Rodmakers. Afterposting, and with input from list members, I'd like to assign weight valuesin terms of importance to each request. I'll also include a weight value interms of complexity of implementation. Might take a couple of days; I starta new programming job on Monday and need to bone up on my Unix skills. Thanks to all, for your continued input. -Mark from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 30 20:14:47 2001 f2V2EjS10812 Subject: Fwd: FW: Tommy/Harry Boyd do not read this, not for a preacher tosee. --part1_a5.13b51e3b.27f69786_boundary Guys,This wife of mine I am going to have a talk with her. Sometimes she sendsme stuff that I hope you all like but sometimes they are a little risque'. Again delete if you do not like me sending jokes.Bret --part1_a5.13b51e3b.27f69786_boundary Mar 2001 15:49:08 -0500 Mar 2001 15:48:53 -0500 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:47:56 -0500 Subject: Fwd: FW: Tommy Compliments of Matt Geary! He's a bad boy..now I'm deleting. Subject: FW: Tommy You'll want to share this at your next Sunday school class............ -----Original Message-----From: Bubelenyi, Tracy Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:36 PM Subject: FW: Tommy -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:05 AM Subject: Tommy A Sunday School teacher was speaking to her class one Sunday morning and she asked the question, "When you die and go to Heaven, which part of your body goes first?" Suzie raised her hand and said, "I think it's your hands." "Why do you think it's your hands Suzie?" Suzie replied, "Because when you pray, you hold your hands together in front of you and God just takes your hands first!" "What a wonderful answer!" the teacher said. Now, Tommy raised his hand and said, "Teacher, I think it's your legs." The teacher looked at him with the strangest look on her face. "Now, Tommy, why do you think it would be your legs?" Tommy said, "Well, I walked into Mommy and Daddy's bedroom the other night, Mommy had her legs straight up in the air and she was going, 'Oh God, I'm coming! If daddy hadn't had her pinned down, we'd a lost her for sure." --part1_a5.13b51e3b.27f69786_boundary-- from martinj@aa.net Fri Mar 30 20:22:09 2001 f2V2M8S11184 Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:21:20 -0800 Subject: RE: More dumb questions... I am needy! I would like to say that some people like the appearance of the flamed rodjust because of the color. the fact that you are able to hide blemishes isimmaterial to a lot of us. Having said that I purposely flamed most of myfirst few rods because #1, I liked the color, and #2 it would hide bad gluelines... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: More dumb questions... I am needy! Hi Mike,As I perceive flaming, the idea behind the flaming is mostly cosmetic. Itallows less than perfect bamboo to be used to make a good looking rod. The is why a very hot torch is recommended. You want to change the surfacelayer of bamboo without changing the overall characteristics of the bamboo.If it also provides sufficient heat treating in the process, so much thebetter. I used a torch running from the refillable propane tanks for mylast rod. I ran the torch wide open. Just a brief wave over the bamboo andthe surface was charred. The heat was so high however that only theenameland a thin surface layer were changed. The surface produced a very darkrodbut the center of the rod was only dark blonde. Watch the enamel. You cansee it erupt as you drag the flame across it. The problem with some torchesand heat guns is that they are so slow in heating the bamboo that the centerof the c!!!ulm can attain near the same temperature as the outside. Then if you flamethis way to a dark result, the inside of the culm is also heated that much.The secret to right flaming is to be able to overheat the surface withoutaffecting the bamboo below the surface. If the interior of the bamboo isallowed to exceed its safe temperature, it will be weakened or ruined. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Ok, I got the Bernz-O-Matic T4000 and flamed a pieceof cane. What ended up happening was I got a nicecolor, but when I went to do a break test it justsnapped. When I tried to straighten a node, itcracked... what exactly did I do wrong? What is theactual procedure? How far from the culm should I beholding the torch? How long do I expose it to theflame? After spending $35 on the Bernz, I am sad tosee that the MSC torch only costs $15. Has anyone ever "flamed" a piece of cane with a heatgun, why wouldn't it work? I have a Craftsman HeavyDuty heat gun (that I am having a heck of a timefinding a flat diffuser for) with a temp range of 220*to 1100* I bought this gun because I wanted a goodone to fire up a heat gun oven with (can anyone giveme a few tips on building one by the way?) from setissma@email.msn.com Fri Mar 30 21:01:14 2001 f2V31DS12013 Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:01:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Ring of Fire FILETIME=[D6209CD0:01C0B98E] Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but does anyone knowanything specific about Paul Young's Ring of Fire? How was it made, and howwas the cane passed through it? Also, Ernest Schwiebert made reference to a WW II bomb hoist that PHY usedto bind sections after gluing. Allegedly, it was capable of maintainingtremendous pressure. I would be interested in learning more about thisbecause I have heard a number of opinions expressed that too much tensiononthe binding thread is about as bad as too little. Jeff Schaeffer from cattanac@wmis.net Fri Mar 30 22:03:26 2001 f2V43PS12862 Subject: Re: Ring of Fire The ring of fire was constructed from 2" pipe circled into a 18" diameterring from which 6 smaller pipes (1/2") extended inward 3" - each of thesmaller piped were capped and the gas air mixture was released through 3pinholes in the caps. The gas was mixed with air supplied by a induced airblower driven by a 1 /2 HP motor - it is estimated that the overall out putwas around a million btus - the full culms were spun through the flames 1revolution moved the culm about 1 1/4" - a 4' culm - which represented themost used length took only 20 -30 seconds to flame - HINT HINT - the flamingtechinique that I have share with all is NOW what is used by Todd -reason? - In the move from Detroit to Traverse City it "fell off' the movingtruck - and the already flamed cane was overly ground at the nodes andwouldn't make today's standard - so all the piles of flamed cane that yousee flaunted hanging along the west and east walls of the shop are 'just forlooks' - Gee - why O why might I know all this????? from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Mar 30 22:41:22 2001 f2V4fLS13485 UAA17824; Subject: Re: Ring of Fire Check this out it may helphttp://www.greatescapesmotors.com/paulyoung/temperin1.htm Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ring of Fire Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but does anyone knowanything specific about Paul Young's Ring of Fire? How was it made, andhowwas the cane passed through it? Also, Ernest Schwiebert made reference to a WW II bomb hoist that PHYusedto bind sections after gluing. Allegedly, it was capable of maintainingtremendous pressure. I would be interested in learning more about thisbecause I have heard a number of opinions expressed that too muchtensiononthe binding thread is about as bad as too little. Jeff Schaeffer from lblan@provide.net Fri Mar 30 22:52:33 2001 f2V4qWS13808 Subject: RE: Ring of Fire The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that all those hoursalone in the quiet solitude of the dungeon whilst maintaining the Budda poseala "Be the Bamboo" and chanting the mantra "twist don't push, twist don'tpush" resulted in multiple epiphanies. How else would one *possibly* come tobe able to share these little tidbits? Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:04 PM Subject: Re: Ring of Fire The ring of fire was constructed from 2" pipe circled into a 18" diameterring from which 6 smaller pipes (1/2") extended inward 3" - each of thesmaller piped were capped and the gas air mixture was releasedthrough 3 pinholes in the caps. The gas was mixed with air supplied by a induced airblower driven by a 1 /2 HP motor - it is estimated that theoverall out putwas around a million btus - the full culms were spun through the flames 1revolution moved the culm about 1 1/4" - a 4' culm - which represented themost used length took only 20 -30 seconds to flame - HINT HINT -the flamingtechinique that I have share with all is NOW what is used by Todd -reason? - In the move from Detroit to Traverse City it "fell off'the movingtruck - and the already flamed cane was overly ground at the nodes andwouldn't make today's standard - so all the piles of flamed cane that yousee flaunted hanging along the west and east walls of the shopare 'just forlooks' - Gee - why O why might I know all this????? from stevexcook@uk.packardbell.org Sat Mar 31 09:23:06 2001 f2VFN5S21551 0000 Subject: Rodmakers from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Mar 31 09:50:48 2001 f2VFolS22084 f2VFoWUd018918;Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:50:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Ring of Fire There is a web site with a photo of PHY flaming a culm in the "Ring ofFire". I'll look for it, but I'm sure others have it more readily available.It involves air pressure with a gas flame.GMA from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 31 10:31:44 2001 f2VGVhS22724 Subject: Re: More dumb questions... I am needy! Hi Shawn,I wasn't addressing the issue of tempering."If it also provides sufficient heat treating in the process, so much the better."In my mind, I have to turn a less than perfect culm into something attractive; flaming will do this. It also provides tempering but I have to look at tempering after I have flamed. Has it been tempered enough or do I need to subject it to additional tempering. I am working on a "tiger" striped rod right now. I know of no way to approach this but from the cosmetic viewpoint. It is my opinion this culm did not receive enough tempering during the "tiger" flaming so I will apply additional tempering in the oven. On the other hand, using a heat source that does not generate enough "heat", will result in over tempering before the desired cosmetic result is achieved. I know of no repeatable system that will allow me to produce different cosmetic results and still produce the same tempering. I think there is no difference of opinion, just semantics. Best regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Mar 31 14:13:21 2001 f2VKDKS25810 ;Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:13:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Ring of Fire Wayne:If it's just the nodes that are bad why don't you take that cane down fromthe wall and make some nodeless rods (as Chris Bogart would recommend) oristhat a dumb question? Jack from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 31 15:26:14 2001 f2VLQ8S27012 Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:25:21 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Ring of Fire Ooops,sorry, I thought this thread was about the chili nite at the gathering! ;^P Shawn setissma wrote: Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but does anyone knowanything specific about Paul Young's Ring of Fire? How was it made, andhowwas the cane passed through it? Also, Ernest Schwiebert made reference to a WW II bomb hoist that PHYusedto bind sections after gluing. Allegedly, it was capable of maintainingtremendous pressure. I would be interested in learning more about thisbecause I have heard a number of opinions expressed that too muchtension onthe binding thread is about as bad as too little. Jeff Schaeffer from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Mar 31 15:49:36 2001 f2VLnYS27508 ; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:49:18 -0500 Subject: Hand Splitting I was watching the Wood Wright's Shop on PBS this afternoon. They were making white oak baskets. In order to split the pieces they start with a knife and split by hand, adding pressure to avoid the split running to one side. Pretty neat. Just like Bob Nunley's technique. Cool stuff.Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Mar 31 17:28:23 2001 Sat, 31 Mar 2001 18:27:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Hand Splitting It is detailed in the latest Power Fibers Issue with pictures. You can download it at http://www.powerfibers.comBob M. At 05:26 PM 3/31/2001 -0500, DragonflyMAE@aol.com wrote:This is were I run into trouble. I have troulbe with the spit running off toone side and it drives me nutts! I can only get one and onehalf rods from aculm. What is Bob Nunleys technique.Thanks Matthew Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from ctn45555@centurytel.net Sat Mar 31 19:33:05 2001 f311X5S00745 f311X3C07347 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Delamination I'm in the process of wrapping my 1st rod. Got one tip and the buttwrapped and put them in a PVC tube while I worked on the 2nd tipsection. The sections were in the tube for 4 days. Somehow moisture gotinto the tube. Not much, but the bottom of the tube was wet. Not surewhat happend (I live in the desert) but here's the upshot. I had not yetglued the reel seat on the butt section but the handle is glued inplace. Two of the strips delaminated slightly (only one side of eachstrip) in the section that will lie under to reel seat (the section wasresting on this end in the tube and must have wicked up moisture). Thedelaminations were about 1.5 to 2 inches in length. To fix I coverd with2-ton epoxy, wrapped tightly with binding cord and covered again withepoxy. What are the odds on this working? No other delamination evidenton the section. I don't know if it matters but I used Nytex epoxy toglue up the sections. On the tip section, just above the ferrule, I have the same problem (oneside of two different strips is delaminated). One delamination is about1.5 inches, the other about 0.5 inches. What can I do to fix the tipsection? My gut is to wrap with white silk and finish the rod. Anycomments would be greatly appreciated. Chad S. Boyd from Kesty25@aol.com Sat Mar 31 21:39:43 2001 f313dhS02429 Subject: Unsubscribe --part1_a4.1227747b.27f7fcf8_boundary Please remove me from the list, Thankyou --part1_a4.1227747b.27f7fcf8_boundary Please remove me from the list,Thankyou --part1_a4.1227747b.27f7fcf8_boundary-- from jczimny@dol.net Sat Mar 31 22:00:20 2001 f3140JS02865 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Delamination It should not have delaminated at all under those conditions. Either theepoxy didn't bond with the cane or you heated too much when straightening.Water could not have cause that in four days even if the rod was totallysubmerged.John Z from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Mar 31 22:25:17 2001 f314PGS03418 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) 0600 Subject: Re: Medved Beveler- formerly big trouble, now an asset Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0BA31.D11741A0 I still use both methods depending upon the time constraints at the =time. In answer to your question, Yes, it is still faster than rough =planing by hand. Good luck, Randall G. NW AR. PS. I still thing it =very important to hand split your strips and to have nice straight =strips. Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 10:27 AMSubject: RE: Medved Beveler- formerly big trouble, now an asset Appreciate the report on your results. Now that it works, I have a =question that comes to mind every time I read about these rigs and the =need to feed slowly and take off just a little material at a time. This =is probably an unfair question after all you've gone through to get this =to work! But by the time you slowly feed the strips through the machine, =and do this multiple times, does it really save time compared to a sharp =plane and a roughing form? I only ask because I'm thinking of building =one, too. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Medved Beveler- formerly big trouble, now an asset About two weeks ago, I requested advice about a rather troublesome =Medved Beveler. Got many thoughtful responses, and incorporated almost =every suggestion in some way. The bottom line is that it now works =beautifully. A carbide tipped router blade combined with slow feeding =and very light material removal was the answer. That and practice with a =few scraps. My greatest mistake was trying to take off too much cane in =each pass. As you feed the bamboo through the blade, the cuttings should =look like snow, with only a few long strips. If you are seeing large or =long pieces, or it looks like multiple strips are flying up from the =same place, you are taking off to much and about to experience disaster. One other thing to note: a properly designed beveler has a plexiglass =screen in front of the bed. This is apparent in some photos and =drawings, but it isn't obvious how important it is. No matter how =carefully you work, you fingers are extremely close to a blade that is =rotating at 25,000 rpms. Be careful, and be sure and include the safety =screen when you build it. I was in a hurry to get it to work, and did not bother. Luckily, the = Jeff Schaeffer ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C0BA31.D11741A0 0DocumentEmail @font-face {font-family: Tahoma;}P.MsoNormal {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso- pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style- parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig {FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-pagination: widow- orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig {FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso- pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 {COLOR: navy; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: =10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font- family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 {page: Section1} I still use both methods depending upon= constraints at the time. In answer to your question, Yes, it is still = thing it very important to hand split your strips and to have nice = strips. ----- Original Message ----- Kling, Barry W. Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 = AMSubject: RE: Medved Beveler- = trouble, now an asset the report on your results. Now that it works, I have a question that = mind every time I read about these rigs and the need to feed slowly = off just a little material at a time. This is probably an unfair = after all you've gone through to get this to work! But by the time you = feed the strips through the machine, and do this multiple times, does = really save time compared to a sharp plane and a roughing form? I only = because I'm thinking of building one, =too. Barry Message-----From: = 2001 = RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Medved Beveler- = trouble, now an asset two weeks ago, I requested advice about a rather troublesome Medved = Got many thoughtful responses, and incorporated almost every = tipped router blade combined with slow feeding and very light material = was the answer. That and practice with a few scraps. My greatest = trying to take off too much cane in each pass. As you feed the bamboo = the blade, the cuttings should look like snow, with only a few long = you are seeing large or long pieces, or it looks like multiple strips = flying up from the same place, you are taking off to much and about to = experience disaster. other thing to note: a properly designed beveler has a plexiglass = front of the bed. This is apparent in some photos and drawings, but it = obvious how important it is. No matter how carefully you work, you = extremely close to a blade that is rotating at 25,000 rpms. Be = sure and include the safety screen when you build =it. in a hurry to get it to work, and did not bother. Luckily, the blade = my glove. Schaeffer