time needed for the cane to cool. We unbound it and were off to the races.If our constant wandering talk of flyfishing hadn't interfered with ourrodmaking endeavor, we would have had that butt section glued up. Ofcourse, the only breaks were for talk and for sharpening those new planeirons he brought... no breakfast, no lunch, and it was well after dark whenwe turned off the shop lights and went to the Fish Camp to eat our firstmeal of the day... Coffee kept me going, Soft drinks kept him going andthat's just what we did... kept going on that ugly chunk of imported grassuntil we nearly had a beautiful rod section made.After we got back from the Fish Camp, our bellies full, we sat at theWrapping table (aka the kitchen table) and talked fly rods, tapers,mechanics of tapers... Oh, you should have heard this! Two engineerssitting analyizing bending moments on tapered beams, loading and unloadingproperties, why rods cast the way they do. Had you closed your eyes, youprobably would have envisioned two nerds in black horn rimmed glasses withpocket protector full of pens and pencils with a slide rule sticking out ofthe middle of them... Open your eyes, and you see a couple of scruffylooking flyfishers who didn't care that they had bamboo shavings stuck tothe seat of their pants at the restaurant. Even dinner was rod talk.Between bites of catfish and shrimp, we'd speak of cane, of classic makers,of contemporary makers, and of the pure pleasure of seeing a trout rise in astill pool... The waitresses were gathered at the register when we left andlistening intently as we discussed the mechanics of casting from anengineering standpoint on the way out the front door of the restaurant. Himin a flannel shirt and jeans, me wearing my Southern Rodmakers GatheringHat, my hair in a pony tail, Billie of course, dressed nicely so it wouldlook like she had picked up two homeless people and treating them to ameal... I think they were amazed that these two guys with the funny lookingwood shavings stuck to their clothes could know words with more than twosyllables...Troy expressed his gratitude as he left late last night, but I didn'texpress mine. I went out with Billie for a couple of drinks after he left,and all I could think about was "I gotta get more rods made... wonder whatthis would look like... wonder how I could make a reel seat out of that..."Everything in our local watering hole to me looked like something that couldeither be used in the shop or made into something for a fly rod. This visitfanned an ember that has always burned inside, into the fire to get in thatshop and make rods for fun, the way it used to be... For that... THANKS,TROY! Thanks for reigniting that fire, and for reminding me why I lovebeing a rodmaker... and you're welcome in this old man's shop, anytime... Off to ferrule a rod... yep... working on Sunday! Why... because a youngman aspiring to be what I am, reminded me that I do this because I loveit... *S*Splits and splinters,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 18 10:32:56 2001 f2IGWte22227 f2IGWvFj000528;Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:32:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Thanks for that Bob ! Troy lives fairly close, and I hope to spend some timewill him, on the water, before too long !GMA from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Mar 18 11:24:54 2001 f2IHOme22853 0000 0000 Subject: Re: $330 bastard? --------------9A70EAD43F991FBA0AD87B3F Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paul Goodwin wrote: Let's not go there... again ----- Original Message -----From: Adam Vigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 10:48 AMSubject: $330 bastard?I have been reading the archives and came across the thetopic of the Bastard bamboo rod. I went to his sight andread his archives on his ordeal in making bamboo rods. Wellsuffice it to say, he spent over $150,000, had to rebuildhis mills several times, brought in professionals to helpand consult him and wanted $4,400 for his first rod. He nowsells his rods for $600-$830 and with and extra tip and norod case. Isn't it Ironic, the God of the High grass mustfish with bamboo and it isn't a Bastard either. I wonderif he still says he can build a rod just as good as a T&T --------------9A70EAD43F991FBA0AD87B3F Oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Paul Goodwin wrote: Let'snot go there... again ----- Original Message ----- From:AdamVigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 10:48AM Subject: $330 bastard? and came across the the topic of the Bastard bamboo rod. I went to hissight and read his archives on his ordeal in making bamboo rods. Well sufficeit to say, he spent over $150,000, had to rebuild his mills several times,brought in professionals to help and consult him and wanted $4,400 forhis first rod. He now sells his rods for $600-$830 and with and extra tipand no rod case. Isn't it Ironic, the God of the High grass must fish with says he can build a rod just as good as a T&T for $150 or if rodmakerscharge to much? --------------9A70EAD43F991FBA0AD87B3F-- from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Mar 18 11:56:19 2001 f2IHuIe23518 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:55:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Great post Bob. I just got back from the Zoo with my wife and 2 yr. old daughter ready for a nap. I guess I will have to go to the shop now instead.Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 12:23:41 2001 f2IINde24012 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:23:00 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Bob,a couple years back when I first really started building rods,You wereone ofthe first builders I actually talked to(over the internet) and I thought backthen,"what a great guy, hope some day I get to meet up with him". As time went thought the same way.I had just finished gluing and binding a Dickerson 6611 up and decided tocheckmy e mail when I read your message and I have to say... I still look forward tomeeting you someday, you are an asset to the craft bud!Wish that all of us here on the list could get together for a huge rodseminar/fishing trip/chili cook off/beer fest someday, sort of a "World WideBambooWeekend" type thing! ;^)Shawn from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Mar 18 12:39:55 2001 f2IIdte24457 "rodmakers list serv" Subject: Re: Planing Form & Binder Source Try Grindstone Anglers in Waterdown, Ontario. The store has canadian madeforms at very competitive prices. Its telephone is 905-689-0880 ---------- Subject: Re: Planing Form & Binder Source Try Russ Gooding at Goldenwitch or Colorado Bootstrap. Email me tomorrowtoremind me and I'll look up their web addresses for you. As far as thebinder goes, they are relatively easy to make. There is a gooddescription/plan in The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell. A great book for thebeginner. Also check out Wayne Cattanach's book. Both wonderfull books forbeginners and skilled makers. Other books are available which I have heardwere very good. Also in interest of other form builders their are othersavailable, hopefully some can come to mind of other list members and theywill post them for you. Keep in mind that you can always make your ownforms. Good luck, Randall Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 9:48 PMSubject: Planing Form & Binder Source Hello, Just starting to put together some tools for rod building. Could someonepoint me in the direction of a source for planing forms and binders. Thanks for the help. JIM from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 18 12:58:38 2001 f2IIwbe24872 Subject: Austin TX List,I am going to be going to Austin sometime this year to work on a hotel that is being built there. Is anyone on the list in the general vicinity of Austin?Bret from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 18 13:00:44 2001 f2IJ0he25068 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Bob, I have some great books on Bamboo, as a matter of fact about the onlyoneof importance I don't have is Perry Fraziers little book. However, I would liketo add one more to my collection. One that bears no relationship to all theothers. It is not a how to build it book nor is it a book of appreciation ofbamboo, nor even a semi technical reference on the noble cane. It is acollection of your stories. I regret that I have not collected them as theyhave come to me on the internet, but hopefully you have saved them. Pleaseconsider publishing them even if it is little more than a bunch ofmimeographedsheets. I think you have an exceptional talent as a writer nearly asexceptional as your talent for bamboo rods. Thanks Ralph Who knows? it might be a whole new career. Give Billie my love. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 18 13:33:26 2001 f2IJXPe25903 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor List,Had the privelege of fishing with Bob on Friday. He told me about Troy'supcoming visit. Not only is Bob a talented rodmaker and writer, he's greatfunto fish with.I consider Bob a good friend. Here's a question to ponder: What othermutual obsession would sing a siren song so loud and clear as to call a giant,pony-tailed, ex-biker; and a mild-mannered (well, sometimes >grin Well, today seems a bit boring, guys... Why? -- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Mar 18 13:33:54 2001 f2IJXre25965 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:33:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Shawn,We do just what you mention, three of four times a year. And you wouldmake a niceaddition to any of our gatherings. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Wish that all of us here on the list could get together for a huge rodseminar/fishing trip/chili cook off/beer fest someday, sort of a "WorldWide BambooWeekend" type thing! ;^)Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 13:44:19 2001 f2IJiHe26393 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:43:38 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Harry,unfortunately the only gathering I got to attend so far was in Fergus,Ontario. Ialmost made it to the Catskills one last fall but couldn't get away.I'm talking about the mother of all gatherings, a huge one, wouldn't itbe asight! 100's of bamboo-philes all in one place! The logistics would be anightmare and I'msure there would still be tons that couldn't make it sadly. Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Shawn,We do just what you mention, three of four times a year. And you wouldmake a niceaddition to any of our gatherings. Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Wish that all of us here on the list could get together for a huge rodseminar/fishing trip/chili cook off/beer fest someday, sort of a "WorldWide BambooWeekend" type thing! ;^)Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 14:30:23 2001 f2IKUMe27385 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Nova Scotia Gathering Friends,I have been throwing the idea of organizing a gathering here in NovaScotia around for some time.Here is what I would like from everyone who thinks they might beinterested if I was to get this going.1. An e mail stating that you might be interested (NOT BINDING, just so Icouldget a feel for the interest level) Please indicate if your interest level i.e."Wouldprobably attend", "might attend", "definitely would attend" and so on2. Suggestions for topics (perhaps something that was missing at theothergatherings?)3. A list of people who would be willing to do lectures/demos.4. When do you feel would be a good time?Feel free, even if you aren't planning to attend, to send your easterncoast of Canada, north of Maine,USA. It is a diverse fishing area, as well as abeinga tourists dream. The US dollar is worth around $1.40 Canadian, a nice bonus( from anAmerican point of view anyway ;^) )I would probably (????) be looking at next year for a date(or is that toofaraway??), as there is a gathering in Ontario this year (I think?? Am I rightTed??)and that would give me lots of time to arrange it and people time to plan forthetrip.Please respond with subject of "Nova Scotia Gathering" so I can weed themessages out. Lets see what we get,Shawn from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Mar 18 15:33:54 2001 f2ILXre28802 Subject: Re: Nova Scotia Gathering Yes, Shawn, there is a gathering in Ontario, may 26, 27. Info about theGathering, registration, etc. was mailed last week to everyone on my list. If you haven't got it yet, it should arrive in the post early this week. ----------From: Shawn Pineo Subject: Nova Scotia GatheringDate: Sunday, March 18, 2001 4:32 PM Friends,I have been throwing the idea of organizing a gatheringhere in NovaScotia around for some time.Here is what I would like from everyone who thinks theymight beinterested if I was to get this going.1. An e mail stating that you might be interested (NOT BINDING, justso I couldget a feel for the interest level) Please indicate if your interest leveli.e. "Wouldprobably attend", "might attend", "definitely would attend" and so on2. Suggestions for topics (perhaps something that was missing at theothergatherings?)3. A list of people who would be willing to do lectures/demos.4. When do you feel would be a good time?Feel free, even if you aren't planning to attend, to send your easterncoast of Canada, north of Maine,USA. It is a diverse fishing area, aswell as a beinga tourists dream. The US dollar is worth around $1.40 Canadian, a nicebonus ( from anAmerican point of view anyway ;^) )I would probably (????) be looking at next year for a date(or is thattoo faraway??), as there is a gathering in Ontario this year (I think?? Am Iright Ted??)and that would give me lots of time to arrange it and people time to plan trip.Please respond with subject of "Nova Scotia Gathering" so I can weedthemessages out. Lets see what we get,Shawn from lblan@provide.net Sun Mar 18 15:36:35 2001 f2ILaZe29019 Subject: RE: Shop Visitor Harry wrote: I missed the thread where Wayne and others talked about the "old days" ofmaking rods inisolation. I won't mention names other than Wayne's, but we all owe thoseearly guys whostarted this list and the early gatherings a great debt. Hey Biondo; I think he's callin' you old! Seriously though, I remember someof the conversations with Wayne when he was writing the book. He wentthrough considerable pains gleaning some of the information. A conversationhere, a question there, a name dropped in the right place... despite thebooks that had been written, there just was not a lot of information outthere for the taking. Wayne deserves a great deal of credit for what is soreadily available today. Then Harry wrote: The only way to re-pay it is the way Timothy did, by teaching some kidabout fishing. I don't know why, but this immediately brought a couple of friends to mind.Many of you know him, most don't, Frank Love (http://www.curro.net/TbbqVI/frank/index.html ) owned the campgroundwherethe Thursday night picnic preceding the Grayrock Gathering has historicallytaken place. When Frank passed away last year, a friend of ours, who writesan outdoors column for a local newspaper wrote an article about Frank.Frank's closest friend discussed one of their mutual pleasures in thearticle. He stated that he and Frank loved to guide, because it allowed themthe chance to meet people at their very best. I feel that this simple factis what makes sharing such a great experience. Larry Blan from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 16:53:57 2001 f2IMrue00593 OAA22688 Subject: Grindstone Anglers forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0AFBC.5DC248A0 Has anyone had experience with the forms from Grindstone Anglers? Do =they have a web page? ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0AFBC.5DC248A0 Has anyone had experience with the = Grindstone Anglers? Do they have a webpage? ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C0AFBC.5DC248A0-- from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Mar 18 17:19:15 2001 f2INJEe01293 Subject: speaking of gatherings... Has anyone heard anymore of the Troutdale gathering? I emailed Kevin about 2 weeks ago and haven't heard anything ? Anybody heard more than me? Just trying to make plansJim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from castafly@gbis.com Sun Mar 18 18:49:16 2001 f2J0nFe02728 QAA17145 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would work forthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Does anyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwhere toget them? Thanks! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Mar 18 19:23:50 2001 f2J1Nne03406 Subject: Re: $330 bastard? To go down this road again would be cruel and un-natural punishment. At 07:48 AM 3/18/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: I have been reading the archives and came across the the topic of theBastardbamboo rod. I went to his sight and read his archives on his ordeal inmakingbamboo rods. Well suffice it to say, he spent over $150,000, had to rebuildhis mills several times, brought in professionals to help and consult himandwanted $4,400 for his first rod. He now sells his rods for $600-$830 andwithand extra tip and no rod case. Isn't it Ironic, the God of the High grassmust fish with bamboo and it isn't a Bastard either. I wonder if he stillsays he can build a rod just as good as a T&T for $150 or if rodmakerschargeto much? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Mar 18 19:27:01 2001 f2J1Qxe03631 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor If you want to make rods in isolation move to OZ or NZ for a while :-) Tony I missed the thread where Wayne and others talked about the "old days"ofmaking rods in isolation. I won't mention names other than Wayne's, butwe allowe those early guys who started this list and the early gatherings a greatdebt. The only way to re-pay it is the way Timothy did, by teaching somekidabout fishing. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Mar 18 20:03:23 2001 f2J23Me04426 0000 (63.228.47.16) Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I drilled three holes in my heat gun oven and monitor the temp in threeplaces with candy thermometers-----Original Message----- Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would workforthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Doesanyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwheretoget them? Thanks! from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Mar 18 20:15:49 2001 f2J2Fme04774 2001 18:15:50 PST Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions i did the same thing but use a brinkman grillthermometer. timothy --- Dave Norling wrote:I drilled three holes in my heat gun oven andmonitor the temp in threeplaces with candy thermometers-----Original Message----- From: Jeff Ferguson Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 6:50 PMSubject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The onlything left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure thetemperature inside the ovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candythermometer would work forthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensivethermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wireconnecting the two). Does anyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand ofthermometer to use and wheretoget them? Thanks! ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 21:55:19 2001 f2J3tIe06356 TAA11728 Subject: tung oil varnish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0AFE5.F359E3E0 I also understand it has issues with with humidity and protection = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0AFE5.F359E3E0 tung oil for finishing. I also understand it has issues with with = protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to = ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0AFE5.F359E3E0-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Mar 19 01:32:19 2001 f2J7WIe09919 Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:32:16 -0800 Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:32:16 GMT Subject: Re: tung oil varnish FILETIME=[B92CE3A0:01C0B046] Seems to have worked pretty well for the last 150 yrs or soA.J. From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: tung oil varnishDate: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:59:33 -0800 also understand it has issues with with humidity and protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to water? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from farell@ma.ultranet.com Mon Mar 19 04:18:55 2001 f2JAIse11364 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A0B_01C0B034.E0749AA0 I use a meat thermometer that has a cable hooked to a digital =timer/thermometer. Thanks; Tom Farrellfarell@ma.ultranet.com Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 11:50 AMSubject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do =isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside the =ovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would work =forthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Does =anyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use and =where toget them? Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_0A0B_01C0B034.E0749AA0 I use a meat thermometer that has a = a digital timer/thermometer. Thanks; Tom Farrellfarell@ma.ultranet.com ----- Original Message ----- Jeff = Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 = AM Suggestions left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the = inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a= Thanks! ------=_NextPart_000_0A0B_01C0B034.E0749AA0-- from dickay@alltel.net Mon Mar 19 06:53:19 2001 f2JCrIe12770 srv.alltel.net Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:53:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions Jeff, Another option would be to go tohttp://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=HH11_HH12&Nav=teml04 Thisis ahandheld instrument that is of field technician grade accuracy. If youpurchased the dual input version you could read either temperature or thedifferance between the two temperatures at the push of a button. Theinstrument comes with the appropriate number of 36" long thermocouples.Replacement or longer thermocouples are easy to make, simply buy thepropertype (K) thermocouple extension wire, strip it. and twist it together. Ifyou have access to a torch, form a small bead out of the twisted wires.This step is not necessary as long as the wires are twisted togethertightly. You might also try Heating & Air Conditioning Wholesale Supply houses forthis type of instrument. I know the Robertshaw and Universal ElectricalInstrument (UEI) make instruments of this type for about the same price.Hope this helpsDick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would workforthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Doesanyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwheretoget them? Thanks! from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Mar 19 08:24:10 2001 (may be forged)) f2JEO9e14594 (5.5.2653.19) atlasc1@earthlink.net,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: tung oil varnish Adam -- You have to be careful with AJ Thramer, he exaggerates, it hasn't been morethan 147 years. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tung oil varnish Seems to have worked pretty well for the last 150 yrs or soA.J. From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: tung oil varnishDate: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:59:33 -0800 also understand it has issues with with humidity and protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to water? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Mar 19 09:45:13 2001 f2JFjCe17678 Subject: Re: tung oil varnish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B048.76C17E20 Hi Adam,I'd suggest you read an article written by Feist and Peterson in the ="Fine Wordworking" May/June 1987 titled "Protecting wood from humidity". =That article rates various finishes for MEE which stands for moisture =excluding effectiveness. They rate tung oil very poorly compared to =other finishes as do they for tung gloss spar varnish. The same article =rates polyurethane gloss varnish much higher and also shows that a coat =of wax is the best. The article is probably in the rodmakers archives =someplace.Ray Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 7:59 PMSubject: tung oil varnish finishing. I also understand it has issues with with humidity and =protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to = ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B048.76C17E20 Hi Adam,I'd suggest you read an = Feist and Peterson in the "Fine Wordworking" May/June 1987 titled = wood from humidity". That article rates various finishes for MEE which = compared to other finishes as do they for tung gloss spar varnish. The = article rates polyurethane gloss varnish much higher and also shows that = someplace.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 = PMSubject: tung oil varnish tung oil for finishing. I also understand it has issues with with = protection against water. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to = ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0B048.76C17E20-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 09:52:09 2001 f2JFq8e18191 2001 07:52:11 PST Subject: Re: tung oil varnish ray, i have a question for you. when you rehab orrepair a rod that has been waxed. what do you do toinsure the rod is clear of wax before you varnish? timothy --- Ray Gould wrote:Hi Adam,I'd suggest you read an article written by Feist andPeterson in the "Fine Wordworking" May/June 1987titled "Protecting wood from humidity". That articlerates various finishes for MEE which stands formoisture excluding effectiveness. They rate tung oilvery poorly compared to other finishes as do they polyurethane gloss varnish much higher and alsoshows that a coat of wax is the best. The article isprobably in the rodmakers archives someplace.Ray---- - Original Message ----- From: Adam Vigil Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 7:59 PMSubject: tung oil varnish tung oil for finishing. I also understand it hasissues with with humidity and protection againstwater. So how does tung oil varnish stand up towater? ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Mar 19 10:32:00 2001 f2JGVxe19779 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:28:01 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: speaking of gatherings... it's may 5 & 6, as referred to in kevin's older posting. he has confirmedthe dates and location with the landowner.it's going to be held (at least one day will be) on a private farm with fourtrophy trout lakes, about a half hour from portland. i think that kevin is going to give us and update soon. he's still lookingto make this a highly participatory meeting, to get as many people aspossible to present at least one topic related to bambooo fly rods. chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: speaking of gatherings... Has anyone heard anymore of the Troutdale gathering? I emailed Kevin about 2 weeks ago and haven't heard anything ? Anybody heard more than me? Just trying to make plansJim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Mar 19 12:29:36 2001 f2JITZe24484 Subject: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "melted paraffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods and probably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishing books, the thin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers very little in the way of protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquid water. Its primary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it (i.e., absorb the wear- and-tear). --Rich from oakmere@carol.net Mon Mar 19 12:59:35 2001 f2JIxYe25700 Subject: RE: P&L Varmor R10 Hi Ray and others: What is the best thinner to use with the R10? I want to make sure that anythickening from air exposure can be controlled and make sure the viscositystays as when first opened. Any suggestions? Thanks. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 13:07:42 2001 f2JJ7fe26131 2001 11:02:30 PST Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax sounds like maybe that might be a good reason to useit. timothy --- RMargiotta@aol.com wrote:Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test wasdone using "melted paraffin", something a lot different than the waxeswe use on rods and probably applied a lot thicker. According to mywood finishing books, the thin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods)offers very little in the way of protection from water vapor and prolongedexposure to liquid water. Its primary purpose is to protect the finish that'sunderneath it (i.e., absorb the wear- and-tear). --Rich ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Mar 19 13:25:02 2001 f2JJP2e27081 net.com [204.253.245.125] (may be forged)) Subject: RE: Shop Visitor Jeez, would you give me the honor of delivering my eulogy someday, Bob?What a way with words. Not only is Bob a very talented craftsman, andautomechanic, and expert in martial arts, and accomplished guitar player,and...... I'd like to nominate Bob Nunley for the First Annual RodmakersPoet Award. Some of y'all may have heard of a particular cowboy namedBaxter Black, whose prose is merely interesting to the major population, butis much deeper and intensely personal to those few that "know" what Baxteris saying. I wanted to relate some of my thoughts on the 8+ hour drive back south, soy'all get the complete picture. Indeed, I was immediately laid out by afifty pound ball of energy in a furry coat when I first entered Bob's house.I don't remember her name, but this lovable puppy is just plain cool. Ifyou ever find that you aren't able to care for her Bob, you just call andI'll come get her. She is one sweet and friendly pup. I'll be sure to saveall my leftover pizza crust and send her a care package every couplemonths...... I can't do anything to add to Bob's description of his home. He wasspot-on. Only thing that suprised me was that Bob's computer was not rightbeside his forms in the shop. I'd have sworn that he was right therecarrying on our e- mail conversations, while concurrently planing strips withthe other hand and turning a ferrule station with his feet. This explainsthe worn out carpet from the computer room to the shop door..... It would be one thing if Bob just had this creative streak, from which grandembellishment flowed. Many people have this talent, to take somethingordinary and decorate it like a Christmas tree, until it sparkles with allsorts of light and color. Some call it tall tales. This is not Bob. Rather, Bob is like the cowboy poet, who has this incredibly philosophicalmind which refuses to merely observe. No, Bob is one of those rare few toactually "sees" what is around him and describe it. Few with the analyticalmind that Bob posesses can express their logical thoughts clearly, andinterstingly at the same time. Tired as I was from the "wee hours" driveup, I did not yawn one time during my 12 hour visit -- ask Bob! Well to be sure, you got the thanks going in the wrong direction, Bob. Comeon, everybody, think about this. Here is a guy who takes a Saturday anddonates it toward the betterment of a person he met briefly at SRG sixmonths ago. And then he thanks me for it??? I don't think he could keep atrade secret if he had to. If you get to spend an hour with him, it will bean hour very well spent. I don't know if Bob is THE foremost authority onall these techniques that are now so strange to me. But what he explainedto me made sense, and that's a great confidence-builder. Remember, I'm anengineer....... THANK YOU BOB for your kindness, intelligence, and wit, which you so freelyshare. You are not only a role model to me concerning the technical detailsof this craft, but also about the fulfillment of sharing life's experiencewith no expectation of reciprocation. Regards to all -- TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Shop Visitor Well, today seems a bit boring, guys... Why? Nothing to do! Oh, theweather's great, the fishing would be good if it wasn't the weekend and Iwouldn't have to shoot or cut my way into the river, but fishing isn'twhat's on my mind. from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Mar 19 14:20:51 2001 f2JKKoe29500 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxapplied toa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of the finish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal. Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "meltedparaffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods andprobably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishing books, thethin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers very little in the wayof protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquid water. Itsprimary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it (i.e., absorbthe wear- and-tear). --Rich -- from martinj@aa.net Mon Mar 19 14:56:33 2001 f2JKuWe01345 Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:56:29 -0800 Subject: RE: P&L Varmor R10 I called up Pratt & Lambert a couple years ago and asked this question. Theysaid any good brand of paint thinner would work just fine. Just make sure itis clean. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: P&L Varmor R10 Hi Ray and others: What is the best thinner to use with the R10? I want to make sure that anythickening from air exposure can be controlled and make sure the viscositystays as when first opened. Any suggestions? Thanks. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 15:20:26 2001 f2JLKPe02921 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Reed, et al: I have to admit that I hadn't thought of wax as a rod finishing product. Iam a rank novice in this arena, but it seems to me that most fishing rodsget more use than a refinished artifact of furniture. What I am wonderingis how does the wax hold up to putting a rod into a sock and taking it outrepeatedly. How about the wear of wind and water while the rod, and thefinish, is under an almost constant stress load. How does the wax hold upto frequent handling or extremes of temperature (here in the west I oftenfish in 100 plus degree heat in the summer). Is wax a finish that is bestused on rods which will see very little or no actual use, or can you use awax finish on rods intended to be fished. And finally, how is it applied,and how often. Is it rubbed on? If so, does it need to be re-waxedfrequently to maintain the important layer of protection? Oh, yea. How does bug repellant and other types of chemical stuff that wesometimes use while fishing affect the wax? I guess it just seems like a wax finish might get really built up on a rodthat is fished and used frequently. I wonder if maybe a varnish or urethanefinish might be a better alternative on a rod that gets more use and lesscare? Jason Swan From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:22:57 -0500 Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxappliedtoa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of thefinish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal. Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "meltedparaffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods andprobably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishing books, thethin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers very little in the wayof protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquid water. Itsprimary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it (i.e., absorbthe wear-and-tear). --Rich -- from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Mar 19 15:29:48 2001 f2JLTle03588 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Jason,I was suggesting a wax finish over a varnish finish. The wax givestremendousresistance to moisture changes (much better than varnish) and protects thevarnishagainst harsh chemicals such as DEET (which eats spar varnish up).Only a few light coats of a hard wax are applied and buffed down, withsufficient time between coats. Doing this every few weeks, even in thesummer, isnot hard; but usually its necessary only twice a season. Putting it in the sockwill only buff the finish. There should be no discernible buildup, but turps willremove it if necessary without harming the varnish.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jason Swan wrote: Reed, et al: I have to admit that I hadn't thought of wax as a rod finishing product. Iam a rank novice in this arena, but it seems to me that most fishing rodsget more use than a refinished artifact of furniture. What I am wonderingis how does the wax hold up to putting a rod into a sock and taking it outrepeatedly. How about the wear of wind and water while the rod, and thefinish, is under an almost constant stress load. How does the wax hold upto frequent handling or extremes of temperature (here in the west I oftenfish in 100 plus degree heat in the summer). Is wax a finish that is bestused on rods which will see very little or no actual use, or can you use awax finish on rods intended to be fished. And finally, how is it applied,and how often. Is it rubbed on? If so, does it need to be re-waxedfrequently to maintain the important layer of protection? Oh, yea. How does bug repellant and other types of chemical stuff that wesometimes use while fishing affect the wax? I guess it just seems like a wax finish might get really built up on a rodthat is fished and used frequently. I wonder if maybe a varnish orurethanefinish might be a better alternative on a rod that gets more use and lesscare? Jason Swan From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:22:57 -0500 Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxappliedtoa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of thefinish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal.Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -- from thogan@rochester.rr.com Mon Mar 19 15:35:06 2001 f2JLZ5e03916 f2JLWPw06071 Subject: Oversize initial planing I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 15:40:53 2001 f2JLeqe04406 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022Subject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Thank, Reed. I didn't realize that the wax was in addition to the varnish.My question now, then, is why not? It certainly isn't going to hurt thevarnish, so why not put in the extra effort? I'm sure there are somecomments out there waiting for this question... Jason From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:31:51 -0500 Cc: RMargiotta@aol.com, Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Jason,I was suggesting a wax finish over a varnish finish. The wax givestremendousresistance to moisture changes (much better than varnish) and protectsthevarnishagainst harsh chemicals such as DEET (which eats spar varnish up).Only a few light coats of a hard wax are applied and buffed down, withsufficient time between coats. Doing this every few weeks, even in thesummer,isnot hard; but usually its necessary only twice a season. Putting it in thesockwill only buff the finish. There should be no discernible buildup, but turpswillremove it if necessary without harming the varnish.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jason Swan wrote: Reed, et al: I have to admit that I hadn't thought of wax as a rod finishing product. Iam a rank novice in this arena, but it seems to me that most fishing rodsget more use than a refinished artifact of furniture. What I amwonderingis how does the wax hold up to putting a rod into a sock and taking it outrepeatedly. How about the wear of wind and water while the rod, and thefinish, is under an almost constant stress load. How does the wax hold upto frequent handling or extremes of temperature (here in the west Ioftenfish in 100 plus degree heat in the summer). Is wax a finish that is bestused on rods which will see very little or no actual use, or can you use awax finish on rods intended to be fished. And finally, how is it applied,and how often. Is it rubbed on? If so, does it need to be re-waxedfrequently to maintain the important layer of protection? Oh, yea. How does bug repellant and other types of chemical stuff thatwesometimes use while fishing affect the wax? I guess it just seems like a wax finish might get really built up on a rodthat is fished and used frequently. I wonder if maybe a varnish orurethanefinish might be a better alternative on a rod that gets more use and lesscare? Jason Swan From: reed curry Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:22:57 -0500 Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thin film of waxhasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration. Waxappliedtoa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing" of thefinish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal.Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of any finish,ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap your peanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -- from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 19 15:41:25 2001 f2JLfOe04502 Subject: humidity Hi folks, When storing rods in a room. What would be consdrered the mostanmount of humidity acceptable before you would need to reduce it byartificial means, i.e. a dehumidifier. Rich Colo from oakmere@carol.net Mon Mar 19 15:49:29 2001 f2JLnSe05250 Subject: RE: R10 Thinner Hi Guys: Thanks for all the inputs. Agreed, the stuff is expensive and I want to usethe best tinner to keep the quality of the product. Thanks. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Mon Mar 19 16:04:03 2001 f2JM42e06169 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions -----Original Message----- Subject: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I just finished building a heat gun oven. The only thing left to do isinstall a couple of thermometers to measure the temperature inside theovenat the top and bottom. I can't see how a candy thermometer would workforthese ovens, so I am hoping to find an inexpensive thermometer with aseparate sensor and read-out (with a wire connecting the two). Doesanyonehave any suggestions about the kind/brand of thermometer to use andwheretoget them? Thanks! Jeff, A lot of people have recommended an oven thermometer by Timex that theybought at Target for around $15-$20. I went to go purchase one a month orso ago and couldn't find it. They did have a thermometer by Taylor (IIRC,don't have it in front of me right now) which looks similar to thedescriptions of the Timex thermometer people had described: digital display,timer, temperature alert, separate temperature probe w/ heat resistantcable, temp range up to 400F (again, IIRC). It was around $19. So I boughtone. I am in the process of finishing my oven, so I haven't given it theacid test. But I hope to soon. BTW, Target has a website w/ online ordering if there isn't a store nearyou. They listed the Timex thermometer when I checked a couple of monthsago, but they said it was out of stock. I get the impression that theydon't carry it anymore. I haven't checked online for the Taylor therm. Keith from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 19 16:28:53 2001 f2JMSqe07425 Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:33:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing Why not set your formes to the finished taper and use the oppesot side fortheoversize planing. It works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 19 16:32:04 2001 f2JMW3e07678 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing opposite side for the oversize planing. It works for me. On the Butt sections Ijust go to the finished taper.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from thinair@townsqr.com Mon Mar 19 16:33:37 2001 f2JMXVe07818 compaqwww.townsqr.com ;Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:26:23 -0600 Subject: Re: big fish on little rod. I send that emotion, Terry. To see what a little cane rod with UL tacklecan handle, check out what I was able to land a week ago yesterday athttp://users.townsqr.com/thinair/browntrout.htm. The photos take a littletime to load, but they're there. I posted the taper for this rod, amongothers, about two weeks ago. ----- Original Message -----From: "Terry Kirkpatrick" Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:04 PMSubject: big fish on little rod. Last Sunday afternoon I visited a "Net" friend over in Orlando. We'dplaned to fish a river at a state park but he found it was littered withcanoesand suggested we go to a pond not to far from his house(Never mindwhere.) We launched the canoe and he guided while I fished. It was a very smallpond, maybe only an acre or so, so I figured bream. I took my 6 1/2 ft4wt.bamboo rod. After catching several bream (One of which actually too line -- andturnedout to be only 5 in long) and several fly changes, my friend, Jerry,suggested Ichange back to a red bead head wooly booger that I'd been using earlier.Irealized all the fly changes had eaten up my 4lb. tippet. The onlythingI hadwith me was 6wt. (as we shall see, God was smiling on me.) After a few casts the line went tight. Nice bream. It headed out and Istarted putting a little pressure on it, trying to get it in so I couldreleaseit. When it felt the pressure the fish took off like a rocket at thecape!This was No BREAM! After about 4 or 5 minutes, I finally landed a 4 to41/2lb. large mouth bass! This on a rebuilt 6 1/2 ft 4wt. bamboo rod. So the next time someone starts telling you about how bamboo isn't verystrongtell them you know a guy in Florida that takes bass up to 4 1/2lb. onthem.... ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Mar 19 16:57:04 2001 f2JMv3e09124 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing This is what happens when you hit "send" before you proof read yourmessage.It is not all there.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Why not set your formes to the finished taper and use the oppesot side oversize planing. It works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial pass isoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so by howmuchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from lblan@provide.net Mon Mar 19 17:39:39 2001 f2JNdce11044 Subject: RE: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Reed; I'm not giving up that little tub of Rennaissance Wax for anything. Iuse it on just about everything, including all the little steel widgets Iseem to have accumulated. I did give Zymol Titanium a try, but the price isa bit steep. They do have a few interesting "wax facts" on their web site,especially in reference to carnauba. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 3:23 PM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Tung Oil Varnish, Now Wax Rich,I hate to disagree with your woodworking books but a thinfilm of wax hasbeen used for thousands of year to prevent moisture penetration.Wax applied toa laquered table or French-polished piece will prevent "blushing"of the finish from water.In the conservation field, an ultra-thin film of Rennaissance Wax, amicro-crystalline wax, is applied to both wood and unfinished metal. Theseartifacts are seldom touched, so it is not to prevent wear of anyfinish, ratherthe wax prevents rapid changes due to differences in ambient humidity.Wax is good. Heck, didn't your mother wrap yourpeanut-butter-and- jellysandwiches in wax paper? Mother knows best.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Let' s be clear about this wax thing. The test was done using "meltedparaffin", something a lot different than the waxes we use on rods andprobably applied a lot thicker. According to my wood finishingbooks, thethin layer of wax used on furniture (and rods) offers verylittle in the wayof protection from water vapor and prolonged exposure to liquidwater. Itsprimary purpose is to protect the finish that's underneath it(i.e., absorbthe wear-and-tear). --Rich -- from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Mar 19 17:44:52 2001 f2JNipe11327 Subject: Re: Oversize initial planing I plane to size in three stages. The first is done in a wood form with anelectric plane to get a relatively straight, triangular, taper. I don'ttry to get an exact size at this stage, just "eye ball" them for shape andsize. This is done very fast. The second stage is done with a #4 1/2Bailey plane in the steel forms so that each strip is identical in size andapproximately .020" to .030" oversize. For example, if your strips are 4feet long and your form is 6 feet long, do your planing on the back end ofthe form. In this way you have backed up 24 inches or approximately four 5inch stations or .030" of taper. The Bailey plane is set to take off .010"to .015" shavings. The strips are then bound and heat-treated. Heat-treating shrinks the bamboo so that I end up with strips about .015"oversize. I do the final planing in the front end of the form, which isset to size, with a Veritas block plane. The Veritas plane has an A2blade. If my strips are straight, and the A2 blade is "very sharp", I havevery few problems with node tearing. ----------From: Tony Spezio Subject: Re: Oversize initial planingDate: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:59 PM This is what happens when you hit "send" before you proof read yourmessage.It is not all there.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Why not set your formes to the finished taper and use the oppesot side oversize planing. It works for me.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com taylor hogan wrote: I was taught to plane my six strips in two passes. The initial passisoversized. Is this the general consensus among rod makers, if so byhow muchdoes one oversize each strip?regardsTaylor from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Mar 19 18:52:04 2001 f2K0q2e13299 Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:51:18 +0800 (5.5.2651.58) Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Shop Visitor Way to go Bob, It sounds a bit like my first visits to Tony Young's place. We weren'tquite as productive as you and Troy but we did do a hell of a lot oftalking. We still do when we get together. Somebody suggested that you should publish a collection of Nunleyadventures. Bloody great idea!! It'd deserve a spot on the NY Times bestseller list. I'm still cleaning coffee and bits of cookie out of mykeyboard after reading your last tale of disaster. I usually sign off with"stay lucky" and in your case I think it is particularly pertinent : ) Mike from piscator@macatawa.org Mon Mar 19 19:38:12 2001 f2K1cBe14496 Subject: Lathe problem This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B0B5.0903FF80 Hey all you machinists out there in cyberspace. My 5 month old 7x12 Grizzley Metal lathe is binding when I use the auto =feed. The binding appears to be occuring in the gears on the saddle =somewhere. Am I missing an adjustment or something? I've cleaned and =oiled everything, and believe that I have the thing tuned well, except = said that if they can't resolve the problem they will replace the lathe, =but it took me a week to cean off all the cosmoline the first time and I =don't want to go through that again if I don't have to. Any help would be, well,. . . helpful. Thanks, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B0B5.0903FF80 Hey all you machinists out = cyberspace. My 5 month old 7x12Grizzley = will replace the lathe, but it took me a week to cean off all the = to. Any help would be, well,. . .= Thanks, Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C0B0B5.0903FF80-- from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Mar 19 21:25:36 2001 f2K3PZe18562 Subject: Not Even Close ! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B05E.614B19A0 Well I have heard of burnout on the list before ,But I'm the opposite. I just started a job (a real one)LOLAnd I come home from work and want to start on my next It S***Ks. But got to make a living. Want to be a professional fly =fisherman, but heard in a movie there is no such thing. LOL Hope I =didn't take up too much space ,but just had to vent. If any on the list =make rods for a living ,consider your self lucky. So, till the weekend ,Best regards ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B05E.614B19A0 Well I have heard of burnout on the = ,But I'm the opposite. I just started a = one)LOLAnd I come home from work and wantto = nextrod but find myself falling asleep. I = be a professional fly fisherman, but heard in a movie there is no such = LOL Hope I didn't take up too much space ,but just had to vent. If any = list make rods for a living , Best regardsTony = ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B05E.614B19A0-- from timklein@qwest.net Mon Mar 19 22:50:17 2001 f2K4oGe20672 (63.225.127.117) Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions Tom Farrell wrote: I use a meat thermometer that has a cable hooked to a digitaltimer/thermometer. I use the same thing. They're available at places like K-Mart and Target forabout 15 bucks. ---Tim from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 23:32:21 2001 f2K5WKe21764 VAA01355 Subject: Dry Fly Taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0B0BD.48A8BF60 I will be spending a week on the Hot Creek Ranch in June. It is Dry Fly =fishing only. The winds in the eastern sierras can be tough to deal =with. I would like some reccomendations for tapers fpr a 7'6" 5wt or 8' =4wt that has a good medium fast action. Thanks, Adam Vigil ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0B0BD.48A8BF60 I will be spending a week on the Hot = June. It is Dry Fly fishing only. The winds in the eastern sierras can = or 8' 4wt that has a good medium fast action. Thanks, AdamVigil ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0B0BD.48A8BF60-- from saweiss@flash.net Mon Mar 19 23:43:42 2001 f2K5hae22325 f2K5hbE60552;Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:43:37 -0500 Subject: Re: P&L Varmor R10 Organization: Prodigy Internet I use P&L's Duosol.Steve What is the best thinner to use with the R10? I want to make sure that anythickening from air exposure can be controlled and make sure the viscositystays as when first opened. Any suggestions? Thanks. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Mon Mar 19 23:58:19 2001 f2K5wJe22886 (199.183.105.42) Subject: Airflow Oven Checkout Organization: Integrated Mill Systems Hello all, Just ran through a dry run with my heat gun oven tonight. There seem to bea few people in the process of building ovens lately, so I thought I wouldshare some ideas/results with the list. The oven is basically a cross between Frank Neunemann's and Jon McAnulty'sovens. It consists of a 5" outer pipe (5" x 60" type B gas double wallgalvanized vent) and a 3" inner pipe (standard single wall galvanized vent).I took the easy way out and attached the 3" vent to the inner wall of the 5"vent using blind rivets just like Frank's oven. But I decided to use thisoven horizontally like Jon's oven, so I attached two legs fashioned fromsheet metal to hold it up. This feature is nice because the legs don't seemto get hot at all, so there isn't a concern for the surface where the ovensits. A 5" duct cap closes one end of the oven, while another cap with one3" diameter hole (for the inner vent) and another smaller hole (for the heatgun nozzle) cut into it seals the open end of the oven (again ala Frank N.) One feature I added which seems to be unique is a 9" heat shield at thenozzle entry into the oven. The heat shield has a slight conical shape toit, with the larger end at the nozzle opening. The idea is to funnel theair from the gun for a short run, hopefully giving it a little morevelocity. I was also trying to prevent the open end of the oven fromoverheating, and get a more even temperature throughout. This heat shieldmay have worked a little too well. I drilled three temperature probe holes, one in the middle, and two about 6" from either end. I didn't drill the holes vertically, but instead angledthemabout 30deg from the horizontal. The holes are angled so that thetemperature probe stays put. One thing to note: don't drill the probe holestoo tight. The metal expands as things heat up, and the probe gets hard toremove and insert (as I found out.) I powered the oven using a Wagner HT3000 gun with a temperature rangefrom220F - 1100F. The oven heated up quickly with the gun on high. After about10 minutes or so, I was nearing 350F, so I backed off on the temp setting abit. At around 20 minutes or so, things seemed to be in steady-state at350F with the gun set at just below setting 7. The temperature readingswere as follows: Closed end: 352FMiddle: 347FOpen end: 354F All in all, I am very happy with the performance. Hopefully I will get thechance this weekend to toast some bamboo. Will update the list then ifanyone is interested. Thanks to Frank and Jon for their great oven ideas. Keith Brewster Shop online without a credit cardhttp://www.rocketcash.comRocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 20 00:27:45 2001 f2K6Rie23765 Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper Give me a call about Hot Creek Ranch. I go there 6 to 7 times a year (including Lifetime Opening and Lifetime Closing). I fish cane. I know you asked about a 7'6" taper. I used to fish a Paul Young Perfectionist and my own version of one there but stopped twenty years ago. I now use 8 1/2 to9 1/2 foot rods. You need the length to control the line. Whatever you do, do not fall into the cult that follows the long leader Guru (I won't mention his name.) That style is better suited to the public stretch of Hot Creek. The Ranch deserves more respect than using a long drift that covers more than your singled-out target fish. The long leader guys on the Ranch do a tremendous job of catching a lot of the wrong fish. Hot Creek Ranch is best fished with a 8 to 10 foot leader and a short drift with the correct pattern for the moment and location on the stream. Do not use a long leader to cover up sloppy casting or inability to control how your line lands on the water. Hot Creek fish do not protect themselves by fleeing from each and every human sighting --they protect themselves bybeing selective. DO NOT GIVE THEM A LONG LOOK AT YOUR FLY. The pastRiverkeeper worked several years to convince me of this. have to retreat your line because you may only cast 40 times all day. The Ranch is a place where you watch, watch, watch; finally select which fish you want; watch some more; and finally cast and get the fish. On days, especially during the E. Infrequens hatch, you may just sit and watch the boiling water. Interestingly enough, Bob Brooks told me that of the 163 insects expectedto be found in Hot Creek, 130 or so are on the Ranch water and only 61 are on the lower public stretch. Give me a call (310) 446-4800 office (310) 476-4779 home Chris Lucker. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Mar 20 00:49:31 2001 f2K6nUe24334 WAA05697; Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper Thanks for the info, Although I have been fishing Hot Creek for over 20years it is good to hear others speak of it. I know of whom you speak say no"Mas" I mean more LOL. Do you have any recomendations for specific tapers.Ireally would like an 8' 4wt to try up there. AdamP.S. Stuck a 28" brown on a beetle above the ranch last year. Have apicture if you are interested in seeing it.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 07:09:45 2001 f2KD9ie28101 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions I bought a digital food tester's thermometer from MSC that reads to, like,500 degrees. But it takes a looong time to get up to temp. I still use itbecause I have it, but wouldn't recommend them. We live and we learn. Brian from punky@integratedmillsystems.com Tue Mar 20 07:45:18 2001 f2KDjHe28855 Subject: Re: Airflow Oven Checkout -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Airflow Oven Checkout Hi Keith:Your oven tests sound very promising. Is there a drawing for thisparticularplan in the archives?Regards,Ed Hi Ed, As I mentioned, my oven is basically Frank Neunemann's oven design turnedonits side, ala Jon McNaulty's oven. The only changes I made were to add ainternal heat shield at the nozzle entry point. Jon's plans for his ovenare on the Rodmaker's site under the "Tips, FAQs, and Techniques" section.Plans for Frank's oven are on his website. A link to his (excellent) siteis located under the "Rodmaker's" section. If anyone is interested, I will try to shoot some pictures and post themsomewhere when I get the chance. Keith from stuart.rod@gmx.de Tue Mar 20 07:56:20 2001 f2KDuJe29200 Subject: Re: Shop Visitor Hi Harry....... Perhaps rebinding worn out Bibles in pieces of retired bikers old leatherjackets?:-) Stuart Harry Boyd wrote: I consider Bob a good friend. Here's a question to ponder: What othermutual obsession would sing a siren song so loud and clear as to call agiant,pony- tailed, ex-biker; and a mild-mannered (well, sometimes >grin preacher together to form a friendship which will extend throughout theirlifetimes? from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 08:33:33 2001 f2KEXWe01018 2001 06:33:35 PST Subject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Mar 20 08:52:49 2001 f2KEqme02096 f2KEqOUd009912;Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:52:24 -0600 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats If you are using varnish to fill the wraps (I do this too) I have never beenable to get a good fill with only 2 coats. I wet sand with 1200 W. or D.,after the coat has dried well. It often takes several coats to get a perfectfinish ! Each coat often needs 2 days, or more before trying to sand it ! I don't dip first, but spray the rod after the wraps are finished.GMA from parataper@hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 08:53:58 2001 f2KErwe02225 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:53:55 -0800 HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:53:55 GMT FILETIME=[96350870:01C0B14D] Bob Nunley,Hi, I have a few questions for you about the bellinger rough beveller. How strait do the strips have to be in order to pass with a minimum of waste. Is strait at the nodes good enough, or do all the gradual bends need removed. At what rpm does the machine operate, and are their anyproblems with it in your opinion. Thanks, MP_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 09:06:51 2001 f2KF6oe02980 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:06:51 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Bill,You can only apply a second coat without sanding in acertain time frame. If the second coat is applied in thattime frame -- say 6-18 hours depending on the particularproduct -- the second coat bonds chemically to the first.Outside that time frame sanding is required to create amechanical bond. I usually apply two thin coats, then athird, slightly less thin coat before sanding. And allsanding is done with 1000 g or finer. Often I use 5 or morethin coats to get the look I want. Russ Gooding has a greattreatise on finishing wraps. If you'd like a copy, let meknow. HarryBill Walters wrote: I did the first couple, let them cure and then sanded with600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Mar 20 09:54:12 2001 (may be forged)) f2KFsBe05436 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: Every month or so it strikes me again what a great group and incredibleresource we have on this list and I just wanted to say thanks to all of you.Home none of my "warmer" comments (as in the recent tempering thread)everdiscourage anyone's participation, it's not often us relative newbies canget specific advice from genuine masters of a craft. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 20 10:05:59 2001 f2KG5we06135 ;Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:05:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions MSC Industrial Supply Co.(see http://www.mscdirect.com) has a 6" stem,200-1000 Fahrenheit, dry bi-metal thermometer which I use in my oven andlike it very much. The part No# 56440555 and the cost is around $22. Jack from Bamboomaker@aol.com Tue Mar 20 11:14:08 2001 f2KHE7e09205 Subject: Re: dip motors Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream in Hawaii is somewhat difficult. . . Anyway, to make digging somewhat easier through the basement, I onlydrilled a 3/4 inch hole through my basement concrete with a masonry drillbit. ThenI used a 3/4 copper tube scrap and duct taped the end to my shop vac. Asyou ram the copper tube into the ground the dirt will be sucked up into the vac. I step up my dip tube to a larger diameter, but only a 3/4 pipe ends up being below the basement floor. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 11:14:55 2001 f2KHEse09307 2001 09:14:57 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Jerry, you wouldn't believe the diversity of theanswers I'm getting but at least a few people havementioned using a technique very similiar to yours. Doyou sand or do you use 0000 steel wool? Harry Boyd uses 0000 steel wool. Key seems to be applying thevarnish thinly and evenly and to start sanding (or isit wooling?) once the coats start getting smooth. Iused the thin plastic end of a very fine paintbrush,much in the same way you mention you use a knittingneedle, for at least the first coat. Used the brushitself on the second coat because the fine tip wouldpick up too much varnish and would make it a bugger tospread. Knitting needle may be easier to use but Iwonder if it doesn't take forever to apply a thin coatthat way. Anyway, I'm getting some real good adviceand really appreciate your getting back to me. Bill Walters--- Jerry Young wrote:Bill - I always apply about four coats to the wrapsbefore doing anysanding. Sometimes a total of 9 or 10 coats ofslightly thinned, warmpoly on the wraps applied with a knitting needle toavoid bubbles. Regards, Jerry Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Mar 20 12:16:28 2001 f2KIGRe11861 hme0.telusplanet.net Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:16:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Oven Thermometer Suggestions Guys, The bimetallic thermometers work great. Be aware however that the bulb onthe thermometer must be long enough to get into the hot part of the oven.The amount of insulation used in your oven will determine the stem length.In my case, I use a 10" stem as the insulation is 4". regards, Don At 11:06 AM 3/20/01 -0500, Jacques Follweiler wrote:MSC Industrial Supply Co.(see http://www.mscdirect.com) has a 6" stem,200-1000 Fahrenheit, dry bi-metal thermometer which I use in my oven andlike it very much. The part No# 56440555 and the cost is around $22. Jack from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 12:49:12 2001 f2KInBe13047 2001 10:49:14 PST Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper chris, i was teasing. i was asking you if you weretelling secrets. i was making fun. timothy --- CALucker@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 3/20/01 7:43:22 AM PacificStandard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: I am not kidding, but I have never understood whatthat expression means. Could you say it again differently, please. Areyou mad or joking or neither? Chris Lucker ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 12:58:13 2001 f2KIwCe13696 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:58:11 -0800 Subject: Re: dip motors Mark,Are we really supposed to feel sorry for your lack of fishing opportunitiesin Hawaii?? Try Maui. I hear there are a few trout over there. Grins,Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream inHawaii is somewhat difficult. . . --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Mar 20 13:14:01 2001 f2KJE0e14439 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish between coatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack cloth afterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Mar 20 13:57:43 2001 f2KJvge16164 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: dip motors When I was in Kona, I did a little fishing with my "bros" the locals whosorta adopted me... No fishing licenses are required in Hawaii... Did prettywell... I used their throw net! Cleaned them and cooked them right on the spot on the beach... incredible! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: dip motors Mark,Are we really supposed to feel sorry for your lack of fishingopportunitiesin Hawaii?? Try Maui. I hear there are a few trout over there. Grins,Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream inHawaii is somewhat difficult. . . --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Mar 20 14:03:19 2001 f2KK3Ie16430 PAA10234; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: dip motor One last time, svp. I'm looking at the Herback and Rademan catalog,does anyone have a drip motor(able) part number or speedrecommendation? Or one from another web-accessible company?Thanks, dws. from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Mar 20 14:17:34 2001 f2KKHXe17252 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Ray,I run a strong magnet over the rod after steel wooling it. It gets all the finewool particles from around the guides. I have had better finishes with 0000steel wool than with 2000 paper. I make sure the steel wool is a no oil wool.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish between coatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack cloth afterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:33 AMSubject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Mar 20 14:39:32 2001 f2KKdVe18870 PAA19857; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats ANybody done a workaround these problems using bronze wool (no steel/iron,norust)? Wooden boat folks find it works perfectly (don't know about the oil).dws. Tony Spezio wrote: Ray,I run a strong magnet over the rod after steel wooling it. It gets all the finewool particles from around the guides. I have had better finishes with 0000steel wool than with 2000 paper. I make sure the steel wool is a no oil wool.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish betweencoatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack clothafterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message --- --From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:33 AMSubject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Mar 20 15:01:49 2001 f2KL1me20104 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats I like the Ultra Sand product, in the finest grade (#000000). I cut a small patch and glue it to a wood block and use it like a sanding block. Costs more than plain steel wool, though.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Mar 20 15:35:57 2001 f2KLZue21647 NAA05623; Subject: Re: tung oil varnish Hi A.J., I hope the 150 years is historical and not personel experience LOL.Seriously though, what is the rundown on putting on a tung oil finish thatis correct. If you say it is good and use it that is good enough for me. Thanks, Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tung oil varnish Seems to have worked pretty well for the last 150 yrs or soA.J. From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: tung oil varnishDate: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:59:33 -0800 Ialso understand it has issues with with humidity and protection againstwater. So how does tung oil varnish stand up to water? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 15:39:14 2001 f2KLdDe21853 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:39:11 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Frank,Where are you finidng the Ultra Sand? I used to get it at Wallyworld, but they no longer carry it...Thanks in advance,Harry Frank Stetzer wrote: I like the Ultra Sand product, in the finest grade (#000000). --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 15:55:05 2001 f2KLt4e22807 2001 13:55:07 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats where do you get it? --- Frank Stetzer wrote:I like the Ultra Sand product, in the finest grade(#000000). I cut a small patch and glue it to a wood block anduse it like a sanding block. Costs more than plain steel wool,though. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerfulcomrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than awaterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman'sLuck", 1899. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 16:45:01 2001 f2KMj0e25071; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:43:18 -0800 Ron Barch , Rick Crenshaw,Charlie Curro ,Dennis Higham ,Mike Biondo , Ken Cole Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2001 Friends, Can you believe it's been nearly six months since SRG'00? It's even harder to believe the time has come to startworking towards our Gathering for this year. To that end,our esteemed webmeister Charlie Curro has posted aregistration form on the SRG website at:http://www.curro.net/srg2001/infoPage.html . Thanks,Charlie! On that page, you'll find a form to register for thisyear's gathering on October 25-27, 2001 at Fulton's Lodgeoutside Mountain Home, Arkansas. In 2000, we had 81 peoplein attendance. The crowd was almost too big. So this yearwe're going to limit the attendance to the first 60 peoplewho register. Registration forms will be accepted untilSeptember 1. After that, we'll cut the registration off. I'll make one more appeal this summer for participation,and of course we'll ask Ron Barch to mention us again in"The Planing Form". Maybe Bob Malucci will mention it in"PowerFibers" as well. Other than that, we won't worknearly as hard to get the word out. Limiting theregistration will make planning the food and the programsmuch simpler. Thanks, Rick! Requiring pre- registrationwill simplify the on-site administrative duties. To register, download the registration form and mail itwith a $30 non- refundable deposit to Mike Biondo. Thanks,Mike! The address is on the form. Yes, that's a priceincrease from previous years. But heck, we feed you 4-6meals for that price, and some of us eat quite a bit!! Idoubt you can beat that deal anywhere. If the $30registration fee is a problem, get in touch with me. We'llwork something out, I promise. I've mailed this to 87 folks who have either attended inthe past or asked to be included for 2001. You can see thatwe'll need to be prompt about getting registered. I'mreally looking forward to seeing you all again. I haven'tstarted working on the program for this year. Who knows,maybe we can get Bob Nunley to do something on shop safety!(sorry Bob, I tried to resist -- I really did! ) Send the forms to Mike, and maybe drop me a note to letme know you're coming. And of course, let me know how I canhelp make this the best Gathering ever. Good friends, good food, good programs, and great rods!Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 16:56:17 2001 f2KMuBe25609 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. Brian from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 16:59:30 2001 f2KMxTe25835 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:59:29 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Mar 20 16:59:47 2001 f2KMxje25880 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:59:44 -0800 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here. Isthat a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Just kidding,Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 17:16:33 2001 f2KNGWe26821 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats It's like Lowe's or Home Depot. There must be one in TC or Big Rapids. I'msure there's one in Cadillac. And I'm no where near Chicago, and jackpinesgrow in the foredunes of Lake Michigan and the hot sand causes the cones toopen up and so there Larry Blan! Sorry to get so feisty, but I got mah pride. Chicago indeed. Brian from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Mar 20 17:36:51 2001 f2KNaoe27535 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:36:50 -0600 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from DragonflyMAE@aol.com Tue Mar 20 18:28:35 2001 f2L0SYe29123 Subject: lie-nielsen planes --part1_e.a76000f.27e94fac_boundary I'm wondering about the rod makers groove cut into the bottom of the low angle adjustable mouth block plane. Is it supose to make the final planing easer and is it worth the extra investment? Or should I ask; why it it worth the extra investment? Thanks Matthew --part1_e.a76000f.27e94fac_boundary I'm wondering about therod makers groove cut into the bottom of the low planing it it worth the extra investment? --part1_e.a76000f.27e94fac_boundary-- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Mar 20 18:35:30 2001 f2L0ZTe29454 QAA03074; Subject: Re: lie-nielsen planes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B15D.11D4AF80 Hi Matt, Here is Frank page and some explanation in what you wish to know.http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.html Hope it helps, Adam Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:28 PMSubject: lie-nielsen planes ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B15D.11D4AF80 Hi Matt, Here is Frank page and someexplanation = wish to know.http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BambooFRMain.ht=ml Hope it helps, Adam ----- Original Message ----- DragonflyMAE@aol.com = Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 = PMSubject: lie-nielsen =planesI'm = ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B15D.11D4AF80-- from cathcreek@hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 19:12:13 2001 f2L1CCe00332 Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:12:10 -0800 Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:12:10 GMT Subject: Re: Frustration FILETIME=[F44593C0:01C0B1A3] Just a note about the HF 7 X 10 mini lathe-I was told it was on backorder yesterday when I called to check on it-sorry some of you but I ordered before all the discussion about service from HF. There was some confusion on when it would be filled so i tried again today with their on-line help. Got right through and the help was great. They said it would be backordered Grizzley (checked first to see if it was in stock). I have part of my HF order coming (lathe tool kit) and it should fit the Griz lathe, so I will report back to the list if interested on how it all turns out (soon to be my favorite pun). Thanks to all who contributed to the thread (ok, too manypuns) on the mini lathe earlier, I appreciate all the comments-god and bad. Already have 3/4 inch aluminum and brass stock waiting for that baby to arrive!!! Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from bh887@lafn.org Tue Mar 20 19:30:42 2001 f2L1Ufe00938 forged)) Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Don't remember ever seeing the stuff in the finer grafdes like 0000. Maybeso, just I haven't seen it. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats ANybody done a workaround these problems using bronze wool (nosteel/iron,norust)? Wooden boat folks find it works perfectly (don't know about theoil).dws. Tony Spezio wrote: Ray,I run a strong magnet over the rod after steel wooling it. It gets allthe finewool particles from around the guides. I have had better finishes with0000steel wool than with 2000 paper. I make sure the steel wool is a no oilwool.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,I find that using 0000 steel wool to polish the wrap varnish betweencoatsif it needs it works fine. But do claen the rod with a tack clothafterwardsand before dipping the whole rod.Ray----- Original Message --- --From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:33 AMSubject: sanding between wrap coats Hi, I recently completely redid a South Bend anddipped the blank in 100% urethane. That went ok. ThenI did the wraps over the blank finish and am currentlyputting a second coat on the wraps. I did the firstcouple, let them cure and then sanded with 600 gritpaper before applying the second coat (applied firstcoat to all the wraps). After dry brushing the wrapsto get the sanding residue off I applied the secondcoat. It doesn't look real good. Just out ofcuriousity I did a test wrap on a dowel and appliedtwo coats without sanding between and it looks realgood. Is there a real reason why you need to sandbetween coats, and if so, what could I have done tomake the second coat look better after sanding? Thanks, Bill W. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 20 19:59:57 2001 f2L1xve01654 Subject: marble slabs rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,I was talking to the cabinet guy at work today and he told me he has some small pieces of marble that are used for backsplashes of counter tops thathe will give me if I want. If anyone in my area is interested in one of these let me know. They are great for scary sharp blade sharpening and for truing up plane soles, a real nice hard flat surface on these. Oh yeh and I even use one of mine for rolling out my blanks.Bret from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 20:36:35 2001 f2L2aYe02592 Subject: Re: Frustration I have the Griz 7 x 12, and am currently experiencing a binding issue.Finally traced it to the shaft the pinion gear rides on - it is bent downand left about 10 dgrees. Caleed them and they are supposed to be sendingreplacement parts. Several listers suggested I check out the 7 x 10 mini lathe list and VarmintAl's home page. Both are great resources and you should look them up if youhaven't. It really demistifies the worings of the lathe and gives you asense that these things aren't as confusing as I try to make it. Brian from ctn45555@centurytel.net Tue Mar 20 21:03:35 2001 f2L33Ye03302 f2L33MK02471 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Man-O-War Getting ready to put finish on my first rod. I would like to useMan-O-War gloss marine spar (nothing else available locally). There hasbeen some disussion as to whether or not the new formulation is a goodfinish. What is the concencus (if there is one)? If I use it, should itbe thinned, if so by approximately how much? I could contact themanufacturer for this latter question, but I'd rather here from thevoices of experience. Thanks in advance for the help, Chad S. Boyd from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Mar 20 21:12:57 2001 f2L3Cue03707 Subject: Re: marble slabs Another good use is for mixing up epoxy on. Cleans up easy with eithervinegaror rubbing alcohol, and if you're slow, a razor or an old plane blade scrapes itclean with not much effort. mac Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: List,I was talking to the cabinet guy at work today and he told me he hassomesmall pieces of marble that are used for backsplashes of counter topsthat hewill give me if I want. If anyone in my area is interested in one of theselet me know. They are great for scary sharp blade sharpening and fortruingup plane soles, a real nice hard flat surface on these. Oh yeh and I evenuse one of mine for rolling out my blanks.Bret from channer@frontier.net Tue Mar 20 21:20:23 2001 f2L3KMe03970 Subject: Re: lie-nielsen planes Matthew;IMHO, it's well worth it. You set your blade just a hair above the form,this way the blade never touches the form and stay's sharp much longer.You do need to re-adjust the form to allow for the height of the blade.John DragonflyMAE@aol.com wrote: I'm wondering about the rod makers groove cut into the bottom of thelowangle adjustable mouth block plane. Is it supose to make the finalplaningeaser and is it worth the extra investment? Or should I ask; why itit worththe extra investment? Thanks Matthew from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Mar 20 22:39:32 2001 f2L4dRe05649 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats In a message dated 3/20/01 5:00:04 PM Central Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. Save Big money!!! "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Mar 20 23:00:21 2001 f2L50Ke06190 Subject: Re: Man-O-War I called the company and talked to a tech rep about the product and how thenew formulation had changed it. They told me that it was lower in VOC's tocomply with clean air standards and they couldn't recommend thinning. Itold him I was putting it on fly rods and he said," Oh, this is for craftuse?" and I, sensing weakness said, "Yes!" He then said, "Well, in thatcase, just thin it with mineral spirits and it'll work just like the oldstuff." I thanked him and hung up, went down to the cave and tried it.Seems to me to work just fine. Thin it with mineral spirits until it works Brian from Troutgetter@aol.com Tue Mar 20 23:26:52 2001 f2L5Qqe06894 Subject: Re: Man-O-War --part1_be.1191b8f4.27e99590_boundary In a message dated 3/20/2001 7:04:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, ctn45555@centurytel.net writes: Getting ready to put finish on my first rod. I would like to useMan-O-War gloss marine spar (nothing else available locally). There hasbeen some disussion as to whether or not the new formulation is a goodfinish. What is the concencus (if there is one)? If I use it, should itbe thinned, if so by approximately how much? I could contact themanufacturer for this latter question, but I'd rather here from thevoices of experience. Thanks in advance for the help, Chad, I had a bad experience with "new" Man O' War out of the can. It left a really poor finish on a rod. I think Brian's suggestion of thinning would do the trick, but I dumped mine and scrounged around old dinky hardware storesuntil I found a couple of quarts of the "old" formulation. I have been corrected several times on calling this the "old" formulation as it has been changed several times over the last couple of decades for the same reasons of lowering VOC's. Anyway the "last old" formulation did the trick for me. If you try adding thinners, let us know how it works for you. Mike --part1_be.1191b8f4.27e99590_boundary In a message dated3/20/2001 7:04:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, ctn45555@centurytel.net writes: Getting ready toput finish on my first rod. I would like to useMan-O-War gloss marine spar (nothing else available locally). There hasbeen some disussion as to whether or not the new formulation is a goodfinish. What is the concencus (if there is one)? If I use it, should itbe thinned, if so by approximately how much? I could contact themanufacturer for this latter question, but I'd rather here from thevoices of experience. Thanks in advance for the help, Chad S. Boyd Chad, I had a bad experience with "new" Man O' War out of the can. It left areally poor finish on a rod. I think Brian's suggestion of thinning would do the trick, but I dumped mine and scrounged around old dinky hardwarestores until I found a couple of quarts of the "old" formulation. I have been corrected several times on calling this the "old" formulationas it has been changed several times over the last couple of decades forthe same reasons of lowering VOC's. Anyway the "last old" formulation did the trick for me. If you try adding thinners, let us know how it works for you. Mike --part1_be.1191b8f4.27e99590_boundary-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Mar 21 03:47:28 2001 f2L9lRe10720 f2L9lK045894; Subject: Re: dip motors Yep! "The Shawshank Whatchamacallit" sure was the name of that moviewherethe hero dug extremely impressive holes with extremely unlikely tools! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: dip motors Friends, Sorry about the delay in posting email. Trying to find a trout stream inHawaii is somewhat difficult. . . Anyway, to make digging somewhat easier through the basement, I onlydrilleda 3/4 inch hole through my basement concrete with a masonry drillbit.Then Iused a 3/4 copper tube scrap and duct taped the end to my shop vac. Asyouram the copper tube into the ground the dirt will be sucked up into thevac.I step up my dip tube to a larger diameter, but only a 3/4 pipe ends upbeingbelow the basement floor. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 07:00:28 2001 f2LD0Re12375 2001 05:00:30 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Dave, I'll give it a try. Sounds like the way to avoidthe metal and oil problem completely. Thanks,Bill W.--- Dave Norling wrote:don't use steel wool Use the grey colored 3-M scotchbrite. Steel wool hasoil in it to keep it from rusting. Once you try the3-M stuf you'll neverreturn to steel wool----- Original Message-----From: Bill Walters rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:15 AMSubject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Jerry, you wouldn't believe the diversity of theanswers I'm getting but at least a few people havementioned using a technique very similiar to yours.Doyou sand or do you use 0000 steel wool? Harry Boydsent me an article that Russ Gooding wrote, whereheuses 0000 steel wool. Key seems to be applying thevarnish thinly and evenly and to start sanding (orisit wooling?) once the coats start getting smooth. Iused the thin plastic end of a very finepaintbrush,much in the same way you mention you use a knittingneedle, for at least the first coat. Used the brushitself on the second coat because the fine tipwouldpick up too much varnish and would make it a buggertospread. Knitting needle may be easier to use but Iwonder if it doesn't take forever to apply a thincoatthat way. Anyway, I'm getting some real good adviceand really appreciate your getting back to me. Bill Walters--- Jerry Young wrote:Bill - I always apply about four coats to thewrapsbefore doing anysanding. Sometimes a total of 9 or 10 coats ofslightly thinned, warmpoly on the wraps applied with a knitting needletoavoid bubbles. Regards, Jerry Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 09:54:10 2001 f2LFs9e17844 2001 07:54:12 PST Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats dave, what did you like best about the 3m vs the wool?my hesitation with the 3m is that it wold remove morequicker. i am concerned about the corners of my stick.what can your experience tell me? timothy --- Bill Walters wrote:Dave, I'll give it a try. Sounds like the way toavoidthe metal and oil problem completely. Thanks,Bill W.--- Dave Norling wrote:don't use steel wool Use the grey colored 3-Mscotchbrite. Steel wool hasoil in it to keep it from rusting. Once you trythe3-M stuf you'll neverreturn to steel wool----- Original Message-----From: Bill Walters rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:15 AMSubject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Jerry, you wouldn't believe the diversity of theanswers I'm getting but at least a few peoplehavementioned using a technique very similiar toyours.Doyou sand or do you use 0000 steel wool? HarryBoydsent me an article that Russ Gooding wrote, whereheuses 0000 steel wool. Key seems to be applyingthevarnish thinly and evenly and to start sanding(orisit wooling?) once the coats start getting smooth.Iused the thin plastic end of a very finepaintbrush,much in the same way you mention you use aknittingneedle, for at least the first coat. Used thebrushitself on the second coat because the fine tipwouldpick up too much varnish and would make it abuggertospread. Knitting needle may be easier to use butIwonder if it doesn't take forever to apply a thincoatthat way. Anyway, I'm getting some real goodadviceand really appreciate your getting back to me. Bill Walters--- Jerry Young wrote:Bill - I always apply about four coats to thewrapsbefore doing anysanding. Sometimes a total of 9 or 10 coats ofslightly thinned, warmpoly on the wraps applied with a knittingneedletoavoid bubbles. Regards, Jerry Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Spico81@aol.com Wed Mar 21 15:30:59 2001 f2LLUxe01954 Subject: unsubscribe --part1_104.96379f.27ea7787_boundary unsubscribespico81@aol.com --part1_104.96379f.27ea7787_boundary unsubscribespico81@aol.com --part1_104.96379f.27ea7787_boundary-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Mar 21 17:37:43 2001 f2LNbfe06446 +0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: testing, please ignore from jojo@ipa.net Wed Mar 21 18:42:36 2001 f2M0gZe08022 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, in speech,orprose. You guys never can get it right, and it causes no end ofconsternation. If you could just get it down correctly no one would notice,or care. Say, have you seen the New Jersey version of Windows, Windows NJ?[ Thanks Art! ;o) ] M-D Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Corrected phonics:Hyl, we-yn got nuna them hÄern Arkunsaw. We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 21 18:45:47 2001 f2M0jle08222 Subject: Test - all Quiet!! Sorry. Am I bumped? from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Mar 21 19:18:38 2001 f2M1Ibe09147 0600 Subject: Re: sanding betwees now Grammer JoJo,Thanks for the grammar lesson. Youse guys from don here can teach us noojoiseybois sumpton. Hay you guys from N.J. this is all in jest.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, in speech,orprose. You guys never can get it right, and it causes no end ofconsternation. If you could just get it down correctly no one would notice,or care. Say, have you seen the New Jersey version of Windows, WindowsNJ?[ Thanks Art! ;o) ] M-D Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Corrected phonics:Hyl, we-yn got nuna them hÄern Arkunsaw. From: "Tony Spezio" We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from caneman@clnk.com Wed Mar 21 19:49:28 2001 f2M1nSe09845 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Test - all Quiet!! I think everyone's just quiet today... strange for this crowd! *S* Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Test - all Quiet!! Sorry. Am I bumped? from cdn@ticon.net Wed Mar 21 20:35:56 2001 f2M2Zue10980 0000 (216.145.217.254) Subject: Hello! Hi list members. I've been a subscriber of the list for about a yearnow, and have beenbuilding planning forms, a binder, preliminary beveler etc,etc,etc. Tothe other newbiesI can highly recommend Tom Penroses method with the addition of thecarbide 60 degreethreading tool in a steel block method of roughing the groove-saves aLOT of time.I groovedthe sole of both my veritas low angle plane and my home made scraperplane and it workswonders! A few days ago I attacked the first six strips of my"sacrificial culm" and they planed and scraped beautifullyand much to my amazement glued up perfectly!!! This was real gratifyingafter spendingwhat seemed like endless hours making all the pariphernalia of thiswonderfull craft/obsession! I stand on the shoulders of all you folks who give sogenerously to this listand hope I can reciprocate in the future. So to the other newbies on thelist I just wanted to saykeep pluggin away-the rewards are well worth the initial time and energyinvestment! Well anywayjust wanted to introduce myself and say howdy. RegardsNed GuyetteMilwaukee Wi. from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 21 20:44:38 2001 f2M2iZe11341 Subject: Re: Grammer Tony: HAY UNNGHH!!! (just wanted to let you know I learned more than Morse Code and pidginVietnamese while in the Army) Hope you're doing well. Ed (Southerner) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sanding betwees now Grammer JoJo,Thanks for the grammar lesson. Youse guys from don here can teach usnoojoiseybois sumpton. Hay you guys from N.J. this is all in jest.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, inspeech, orprose. You guys never can get it right, and it causes no end ofconsternation. If you could just get it down correctly no one wouldnotice,or care. Say, have you seen the New Jersey version of Windows, WindowsNJ?[ Thanks Art! ;o) ] M-D Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Corrected phonics:Hyl, we-yn got nuna them hÄern Arkunsaw. From: "Tony Spezio" We ain't nether gotten any heren Arkensas.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? Harry Brian Creek wrote: I get it at menards. It's pretty cheap, too. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Mar 21 20:47:28 2001 f2M2lNe11597 Subject: Re: Hello! Hi Ned,Sounds like your really getting into it. Keep at it. The rewards are many. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 20:52:18 2001 f2M2qIe11838 Subject: Re: Grammer --part1_6e.8c6a4fe.27eac2c4_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 6:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: Brian,What's menards? We ain't got none of them down here.Is that a jack pine version of Walmart, or sumpin? since it's slow ... I thought me nards were my hangy downies?Mike --part1_6e.8c6a4fe.27eac2c4_boundary In a message dated3/21/2001 6:45:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: Brian, since it's slow ... I thought me nards were my hangy downies?Mike --part1_6e.8c6a4fe.27eac2c4_boundary-- from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Mar 21 21:13:42 2001 f2M3Dge12429 Subject: Reelseat care Dave:A while back, I purchased one of your sliding band Ash Burl reel seats(mighty nice) and expect it to get scuffed with use. What do you recommendI do/use to keep it as new?TIAEd----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Hello! Hi Ned,Sounds like your really getting into it. Keep at it. Therewards are many.Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from cadams46@juno.com Wed Mar 21 21:46:05 2001 f2M3k4e13175 22:45:21 EST Subject: Re: Dip Motors Well thanks guys for all the suggestions. I looked at the options andpreferred a DIP to a DRIP system. And I think I'll stick with my 2' hole I don't know if this suggestion got posted to the list or not but if Iever did this again I think the idea where you dig the hole with waterpressure and a wet dry vac is a really good idea. My only concern ishere in Utah we have a dense layer of clay under our house. When you add water to clay it just gets softer but dosen't break upeasily. Thanks again.C.R. Adams from piscator@macatawa.org Wed Mar 21 22:27:09 2001 f2M4R4e14207 Subject: Re: Grammer This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B25F.09CDE6A0 AAARRRGGGHH! ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B25F.09CDE6A0 AAARRRGGGHH! ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0B25F.09CDE6A0-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 22:31:22 2001 f2M4VLe14476 Subject: Re: Grammer rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_51.91d1083.27eada05_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:27:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, piscator@macatawa.org writes: AAARRRGGGHH! Ok! I'm so sorry, besides it was to be pronounced with an Austrialian accentMike ] 8^) --part1_51.91d1083.27eada05_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:27:49 PM PacificStandard Time, piscator@macatawa.org writes: AAARRRGGGHH! Ok! I'm so sorry, besides it was to be pronounced with an Austrialianaccent --part1_51.91d1083.27eada05_boundary-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Mar 21 22:56:39 2001 f2M4ube15299 Subject: Re: Grammer rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'd need afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll getclose:-) Tony At 11:31 PM 3/21/01 -0500, Troutgetter@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:27:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, piscator@macatawa.org writes: AAARRRGGGHH! Ok! I'm so sorry, besides it was to be pronounced with an Austrialianaccent Mike ] 8^) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 23:13:07 2001 f2M5D6e15734 Subject: Re: Grammer --part1_5b.1388af6e.27eae3d8_boundary In a message dated 3/21/2001 8:57:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'd need afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll getclose:-) Tony,There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I will keep trying! :)Mike --part1_5b.1388af6e.27eae3d8_boundary In a message dated3/21/2001 8:57:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: There used tobe a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'd need afrontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll getclose:-) Tony,There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I will keep trying! :)Mike --part1_5b.1388af6e.27eae3d8_boundary-- from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Mar 21 23:24:27 2001 f2M5OQe16125 Subject: Re: Grammer --part1_7e.128aa3ef.27eae680_boundary PS ...Tony,Just saw your "Driggs" for sale on e-bay. Very nice indeed.Mike --part1_7e.128aa3ef.27eae680_boundary PS ...Tony,Just saw your "Driggs" for sale on e-bay. Very nice indeed.Mike --part1_7e.128aa3ef.27eae680_boundary-- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Mar 21 23:35:51 2001 f2M5Zoe16515 VAA09867 Subject: waterlox tung oil finishes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B250.36E551A0 Hi everyone, I have come across http://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#Waterlox =Original Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly =rods. Any users of this out there? Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B250.36E551A0 Hi everyone, I have come across http://www.waterlo= Original Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly = users of this out there? Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0B250.36E551A0-- from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Thu Mar 22 01:14:47 2001 f2M7Eje18602 0800 Subject: Digest Mode Could someone send me the command to get off digest mode and back torealtime. Please send directly to me instead of to the list. Ray from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Thu Mar 22 02:45:27 2001 f2M8jQe19709 Subject: History of FF in SLC I was able to get out of our training just in time to catch the exhibit inSalt Lake just before they closed at 5:30 today. I walked in at 5:00. Icould spend an afternoon studying that exhibit. The display of rods wasquite impressive. It is a good thing they are behind plexiglas, I would havebeen casting all of them! I especially enjoyed the short video of Garrisonmaking a rod. I noticed that most of the rods made around 1930 and priorhadintermediate wraps. Did they start using better glues after 1930? Thesecurity guard shut off the lights promptly at 5:30. It is just as well, Iwould have missed my plane if I had stayed any later. Thanks again towhoever posted the original announcement about this exhibit. Ray from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Mar 22 04:21:31 2001 f2MALUe21360 f2MALM065758; Subject: Re: Test - all Quiet!! Yeah, Bob - Martin's phonetic interpretation acts a bit like a neuronic whip! It'll be a few moments before folks get their cerebral cortices back. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Test - all Quiet!! I think everyone's just quiet today... strange for this crowd! *S* Bob -----Original Message-----From: Ed Riddle Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 6:46 PMSubject: Test - all Quiet!! Sorry. Am I bumped? from caneman@clnk.com Thu Mar 22 04:30:47 2001 f2MAUge21566 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Grammer =_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0 At the rate I'm going lately, I should be fluent by Christmas!Bob There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie = frontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and = There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I = ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0 Christmas!Bob There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an = Aussie you'd need a frontal labotamy but I've never believed = Keep trying and you'll get close :-) Tony, = trying! :) Mike = ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0B288.3E43C8E0-- from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Mar 22 04:32:10 2001 f2MAW9e21665 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: waterlox tung oil finishes --------------7C2086AD0B689347F2DF2FB4 Hi Adam, I use Waterlox but only as a sealer immediatly after thebinding cord and glue are removed. I put it on with my fingers as thinas possible. I see no reason why it could not be used as the finalfinish. Marty Adam Vigil wrote: Hi everyone, I have come acrosshttp://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#Waterlox Original Satin Finish, Inoticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly rods. Any users of thisout there? Adam --------------7C2086AD0B689347F2DF2FB4 Hi Adam, I use Waterlox but only as a sealer immediatly after the bindingcord and glue are removed. I put it on with my fingers as thin as possible.I see no reason why it could not be used as the final finish. MartyAdam Vigil wrote: Hi comeacross http://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#WaterloxOriginal Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly --------------7C2086AD0B689347F2DF2FB4-- from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Mar 22 04:41:21 2001 f2MAfKe22011 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: waterlox tung oil finishes --------------8CB8512F7BBCCD2E2DC653D0 Hi Adam, That is the first time I saw any varnish manufacturer recomendthere finish for bamboo fly rods. There has to be a Bamboo addictofficer at the company. Marty Adam Vigil wrote: Hi everyone, I have come acrosshttp://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#Waterlox Original Satin Finish, Inoticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly rods. Any users of thisout there? Adam --------------8CB8512F7BBCCD2E2DC653D0 Hi Adam, That is the first time I saw any varnish manufacturer recomendthere finish for bamboo fly rods. There has to be a Bamboo addict officerat the company. MartyAdam Vigil wrote: Hi comeacross http://www.waterlox.com/products.htm#WaterloxOriginal Satin Finish, I noticed they claim to have 2 finishes for fly --------------8CB8512F7BBCCD2E2DC653D0-- from dickay@alltel.net Thu Mar 22 06:37:19 2001 f2MCbIe23406 srv.alltel.net Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:37:18 -0600 Subject: Grammer Be careful Tony. You are obviously not aware of the Arkansas law thatforbids northern transplants from attempting a Southern drawl, in speech,orprose. >Corrected grammar:Hell, we ain't got none o' them here'n Arkansas. Martin, I've been here in Arkansas for over 30 years now. I was only 26when I moved here. When we go back to Michigan, everybody there mentionsour Southern drawl. BTW that's Northern transplants if it Sothern Drawl.Dick Fuhrman from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Mar 22 06:45:32 2001 f2MCjWe23666 Subject: Re: waterlox tung oil finishes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0B2A4.85751F40 CSE sells the Waterlox original transparent as a traditional varnish for =bamboo rods. I've talked to their company about the varnish, and think =it will work well. I intend to try it as soon as my stash of old man o' =war runs out. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0B2A4.85751F40 CSE sells the Waterlox = as soon as my stash of old man o' war runs out. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C0B2A4.85751F40-- from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Mar 22 06:45:42 2001 f2MCjee23731 Subject: Re: Grammer I can do it with a bottle infrontofme. from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Mar 22 07:03:53 2001 f2MD3qe24250 IAA17816; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: scary-shape question. A kind of "Car Talk" question for the list. I was recently told thatyou can tell when a plane knife/blade is REALLY sharp, because you willNO longer be able to see your reflection in it. Is this so and, sinceit seems counter intuitive, why?Thanks, dws. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Mar 22 07:37:17 2001 f2MDbGe25065 Subject: Re: sanding between wrap coats You can get it at Rocklers (aka the Woodworkers Store). Its abouta buck more than at Menards, tho.. $4 vs $3.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, timothy troester wrote: where do you get it? from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Mar 22 09:21:35 2001 f2MFLZe28281 Subject: (no subject) Does anyone have Jon Lintvet's current e-mail address? from robert.kope@prodigy.net Thu Mar 22 09:39:35 2001 f2MFdYe29060 f2MFdXF109204;Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:39:33 -0500 Subject: Re: scary-shape question. David, The advice you got has somehow been corrupted. When a blade is reallysharpyou will no longer be able to see the edge, not your reflection. If youlook the edge of a dull plade, you will be able to see it because it haswidth and the surface of the edge reflects light. When you have a reallysharp edge, it has no width and thus, cannot reflect light. In order toachieve the sharpest edge both surfaces of the edge (the back of the plane,and the bevel) should be polished to a mirror finish. So you should be ableto see your reflection in the back of the blade and the bevel should reflectlight like a mirror. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: scary-shape question. A kind of "Car Talk" question for the list. I was recently told thatyou can tell when a plane knife/blade is REALLY sharp, because you willNO longer be able to see your reflection in it. Is this so and, sinceit seems counter intuitive, why?Thanks, dws. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Mar 22 09:56:52 2001 f2MFupe29896 HAA21234; Subject: lintvets email Try this sales@munrorodco.com and here is his tel# (804) 340-1848 Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: (no subject) Does anyone have Jon Lintvet's current e-mail address? from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Mar 22 10:47:41 2001 f2MGlde02183 Subject: Re: Grammer Just remember :I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotamy but in yourcase just be careful, go too far and you'll sound like a Kiwi :-) Tony At 04:26 AM 3/22/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: At the rate I'm going lately, I should be fluent by Christmas!Bob There used to be a myth that in order to speak like an Aussie you'dneed a frontal labotamy but I've never believed that. Keep trying and you'll get close :-) Tony, There is a scar or two on my forehead. But, none the less, I will keep trying! :) Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws