from miangler@yahoo.com Sun Apr 1 00:20:17 2001 f316KGS05074 2001 22:20:17 PST Subject: problem with roughing forms Well, the only thing holding me back now is getting aroughing form. Munro is on backorder, Bootstrap hasnever once gotten back to me and they have a 6 weekwaiting period, Goldenwitch makes two separate formsto do what one from anyone else does, and I have noaccess to the tools necessary to make my own. Doesanyone know of another source for roughing forms? Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Apr 1 05:08:44 2001 f31A8gS07748 f31A8a032162; Subject: Re: problem with roughing forms Mike At the risk of seeming simplistic here, make them! Half a dozen wood screws, a 50 cent protractor, two short bits of hardwood,and about half an hour of your time is all. Oh, and you'll need to have adrill, a blockplane, and a screwdriver. I am widely known to be as useless as tits on a bull in the workshop, and Imade mine easily; and they work really well. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: problem with roughing forms Well, the only thing holding me back now is getting aroughing form. Munro is on backorder, Bootstrap hasnever once gotten back to me and they have a 6 weekwaiting period, Goldenwitch makes two separate formsto do what one from anyone else does, and I have noaccess to the tools necessary to make my own. Doesanyone know of another source for roughing forms? Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Apr 1 06:31:42 2001 f31BVfS08860 Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:31:40 +0100 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: problem with roughing forms I'll not only second that but after a few rods you will probably neverhave need for a roughing former......they are just not necessary !Paul Peter McKean wrote: Mike At the risk of seeming simplistic here, make them! Half a dozen wood screws, a 50 cent protractor, two short bits ofhardwood,and about half an hour of your time is all. Oh, and you'll need to have adrill, a blockplane, and a screwdriver. I am widely known to be as useless as tits on a bull in the workshop, and Imade mine easily; and they work really well. Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Janik" Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 4:20 PMSubject: problem with roughing forms Well, the only thing holding me back now is getting aroughing form. Munro is on backorder, Bootstrap hasnever once gotten back to me and they have a 6 weekwaiting period, Goldenwitch makes two separate formsto do what one from anyone else does, and I have noaccess to the tools necessary to make my own. Doesanyone know of another source for roughing forms? Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from bydesign@cfw.com Sun Apr 1 09:47:17 2001 f31ElFS11344 Subject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. =Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear =finished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get =it totally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat =better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match = Thanks,Rich Young I am in the middle of wrapping the = nearly completed rod. Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer = with somewhat better results, but still not completely clear. I use the = = Thanks,RichYoung from Kesty25@aol.com Sun Apr 1 10:17:01 2001 f31FH0S11954 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Please remove me from the list, Thankyou Please remove me fromthe list, Thankyou from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 1 10:20:31 2001 f31FKUS12179 Subject: Re: problem with roughing forms In a message dated 4/1/1 6:20:48 AM, miangler@yahoo.com writes: Mike - The only thing rough planing is about is establishing the 60* angle. You don't need anything fancy. Get someone with a router to run a couple "V" grooves of different depths in a piece of hardwood. That is all I have ever used. The 60*-30* initial form described in Garrison is more trouble than it is worth. Just use a 60* groove, and flip the strip every two passes. You will soon be making the right angles. My rough form is 30" long, and 1/1/2" square. It is held in my bench vise. The strips slide up and down the length. One side has a groove a bit deeper than .250, the other is about .187. from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Sun Apr 1 12:47:53 2001 f31HlqS14204 f31Hlp1109986;Sun, 1 Apr 2001 13:47:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear RichI have not had good luck thining varnish for wraps, I use Man =O War spar varnish, Small amount in baby food jar set it in a pan of hot =water tell it warms up, put enough varnish on to really soak silk well, = Good Luck Tony Larson Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:48 AMSubject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. =Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear =finished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get =it totally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat =better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match = Thanks,Rich Young Rich had good luck thining varnish for wraps, I use Man O War spar varnish, = amount in baby food jar set it in a pan of hot water tell it warms up, = ----- Original Message ----- Beth =Young Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 = AMSubject: Getting wraps =clear I am in the middle of wrapping the = nearly completed rod. Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer = Waterlox with somewhat better results, but still not completely clear. = Thanks,Rich =Young from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Apr 1 13:57:41 2001 f31IveS15453 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Getting wraps clear Try a different brand of silk. Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 7:49 AM Subject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. Onlythis time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear finishedappearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get it totallyclear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat betterresults, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end method toapply the finish. What am I doing wrong? Thanks,Rich Young different brand of silk. Darrellwww.vfish.net YoungSent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 7:49 clearI am in the middle of wrapping the = nearly completed rod. Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer = Waterlox with somewhat better results, but still not completely clear. = Thanks,Rich =Young from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Apr 1 14:38:38 2001 f31JccS16365 Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear --------------D0BA3E99B637D2AC5FAED52C Hi Rich, You should wash your hands very well before a wrapping session.The oils from a persons hand fouls the white silk. First coat of varnishthin 50%. Marty Beth Young wrote: I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod.Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clearfinished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn'tget it totally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox withsomewhat better results, but still not completely clear. I use thepaper match end method to apply the finish. What am I doingwrong? Thanks,Rich Young --------------D0BA3E99B637D2AC5FAED52C Hi Rich, You should wash your hands very well before a wrapping session.The oils from a persons hand fouls the white silk. First coat of varnishthin 50%. MartyBeth Young wrote: Iam in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. Onlythis time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear finished better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end Young --------------D0BA3E99B637D2AC5FAED52C-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Apr 1 16:17:11 2001 f31LHAS18091 Subject: Re: Clean hands --------------5779A817BCD612A9179A7713 Hi Chris, No I don't think so. I think the bubbles are caused from poorfinish penetration from to thick first coat. Best, Marty Raine Family wrote: Hi Marty,Does the oil from ones hands increase the surface tension?Is this the cause of the small bubbles at the base of thewraps?TIA,Chris -----Original Message-----From: none rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 12:42 PMSubject: Re: Getting wraps clearHi Rich, You should wash your hands very well before awrapping session. The oils from a persons hand fouls thewhite silk. First coat of varnish thin 50%. Marty Beth Young wrote: I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearlycompleted rod. Only this time I amy playing with whitegossamer silk to obtain clear finished appearance.Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get ittotally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterloxwith somewhat better results, but still not completelyclear. I use the paper match end method to apply thefinish. What am I doing wrong? Thanks,Rich Young --------------5779A817BCD612A9179A7713 poor finish penetration from to thick first coat. Best, MartyRaine Family wrote: cause of the small bubbles at the base of the wraps?TIA,Chris----- OriginalMessage-----From: none <horsesho@ptd.net> <bydesign@cfw.com>; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Sunday, April 01, 200112:42 PMSubject: Re: Getting wrapsclear session. The oils from a persons hand fouls the white silk. First coatof varnish thin 50%. MartyBeth Young wrote: Iam in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. Onlythis time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear finished better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end Thanks,RichYoung --------------5779A817BCD612A9179A7713-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Apr 1 16:39:50 2001 f31LdmS18563 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I'm using sligthly heated, unthinned Epifanes Spar varnish on PearsallsGossamer and getsglass clear wraps. Start applying at the guide feet, and make sure thevarnish soak well inn... regardsdanny Re: Getting wraps clear I'm using sligthly heated, unthinned Epifanes Spar varnish on Pearsalls Gos=samer and getsglass clear wraps. Start applying at the guide feet, and make sure the varn=ish soak well inn... regardsdanny from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Apr 1 18:12:07 2001 f31NC6S20048 Subject: Comeback To the List,Does any one else have a problem with comeback, that is the return ofcurves etc after heat straightening? Any solutions, explanations, help? Bill from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 1 18:57:35 2001 f31NvYS20819 Subject: Re: Comeback Bill;Sometimes I have this problem, usually because I have not really heatedand straightened the area enough, but just cold straightened it bybending. The second or third attempt seems to get it. Usually this onlyhappens on butt sections where the heat doesn't get all the way into therod. After scorching a few, I try to err on the not enough side, I canalways try again.John Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Does any one else have a problem with comeback, that is the return ofcurves etc after heat straightening? Any solutions, explanations, help? Bill from oakmere@carol.net Sun Apr 1 19:25:18 2001 f320PIS21472 Subject: RE: April Power Fibers Hi Bob: You did it again. The issue looks great. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from caneman@clnk.com Sun Apr 1 22:04:09 2001 f32349S24181 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear Rich,Don't know. I just finished a rod with clear wraps and did them with30% thinned ManOWar Spar Varnish (not poly) for the first two coats, thenpoly over that and they came out clear as glass. Matter of fact at theSowbug Roundup this weekend, had a guy ask if I wrapped the rod withMono??? bob -----Original Message-----From: Beth Young Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:47 AMSubject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod.Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clearfinished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get ittotally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat betterresults, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end method toapply the finish. What am I doing wrong? Thanks,Rich Young from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 1 22:27:20 2001 f323RIS24827 Subject: Another virus. Snow White I'm at work trying to look like I'm being productive so I haven't had timeto check any recent email to see if this came from the list or is just spambut I just received a meaasge containing "HAHAHA Snow White - JOKE" Thereare several variations of the title but you'll get the point if you see it. The contents is some BS about Snow turning 18 and an attachment calledJOKE.EXE Presumably there is supposed to be something relating to Snow and7 little guys celibrating, prob a sight gag :-) but to click it is to beinfected with a worm. This is a real worm type virus and not a hoax though apparently a low levelvirus. It's also thought to be not as virulent as others as it looks as ifthe author is using spam software to do his own distribution possibly thetitle is a bit of a give away and people aren't falling for it it's justnot as effective as others. Have to go now and see if any of these teen age kids with their hormonalimballances here have already tried it. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from martinj@aa.net Sun Apr 1 23:18:47 2001 f324IjS25964 Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:18:43 -0700 Subject: RE: Another virus. Snow White This is an old virus. Any current virus software will pick this up and sincewe are "all" (by now) using current virus software of some kind (TIC) therewill be no problem... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Another virus. Snow White I'm at work trying to look like I'm being productive so I haven't had timeto check any recent email to see if this came from the list or is just spambut I just received a meaasge containing "HAHAHA Snow White - JOKE" Thereare several variations of the title but you'll get the point if you see it. The contents is some BS about Snow turning 18 and an attachment calledJOKE.EXE Presumably there is supposed to be something relating to Snow and7 little guys celibrating, prob a sight gag :-) but to click it is to beinfected with a worm. This is a real worm type virus and not a hoax though apparently a low levelvirus. It's also thought to be not as virulent as others as it looks as ifthe author is using spam software to do his own distribution possibly thetitle is a bit of a give away and people aren't falling for it it's justnot as effective as others. Have to go now and see if any of these teen age kids with their hormonalimballances here have already tried it. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from Bamboomaker@aol.com Sun Apr 1 23:33:42 2001 f324XfS26364 Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? Full-name: Bamboomaker Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found it interesting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks with Gorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt spline that I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out the apex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths of outside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gather about 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram per spline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. I presume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effects of hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow building is related to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose that fluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any special properties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 00:11:49 2001 f325BnS27221 WAA24478 Subject: Big Day Today I tried the scary sharp method and it definitly lives up to its name. =Munro Rod Co. still has not sent me my hock blade and has not responded =to my emails. I decided to take the advice of others and use my stock =blade. The blade now has a mirror finish and shaves hair easily. I also =finished my garrison binder. It works like a charm and only cost a total =of $10 to build. I also put the finishing touches on my splice block for =nodeless. I can clamp it in a vise and add and remove strips at ease =with no tools and without touching the vise. Right now I am running a =test on gorilla glue and titebond II and their relative strengths in =splices.My next project is a finishing tube ala "hayashida". What ever happend =to Daryl? Adam Vigil definitly lives up to its name. Munro Rod Co. still has not sent me my = blade and has not responded to my emails. I decided to take the advice = and use my stock blade. The blade now has a mirror finish and shaves = easily. I also finished my garrison binder. It works like a charm and = a total of $10 to build. I also put the finishing touches on my splice = nodeless. I can clamp it in a vise and add and remove strips at ease = splices.My next project is a finishing tube ala = "hayashida". What ever happend to Daryl? AdamVigil from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Apr 2 08:44:26 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f32DiKS04100 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth the time? Mark -- Thanks for doing this, it's very useful. For those not into grams, 6 gramsis about 1/5th oz. So even a much heavier taper wouldn't result in muchweight savings. And it's worth noting that mass near the grip has lesseffect than mass further out toward the tip. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found it interesting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks with Gorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt spline that I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out the apex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths of outside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gather about 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram per spline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. I presume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effects of hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow buildingis related to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose that fluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any special properties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from parataper@hotmail.com Mon Apr 2 09:01:43 2001 f32E1gS04946 Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:01:38 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:01:38 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it w orth thetime? FILETIME=[6FC7B900:01C0BB7D] Psychologically, 1/5th oz. can be a lot. It's the differance between a 4.1 oz. rod, and a 3.9 oz. rod. MP From: "Kling, Barry W." rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it w orth the time?Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:44:02 - 0500 Mark -- Thanks for doing this, it's very useful. For those not into grams, 6 gramsis about 1/5th oz. So even a much heavier taper wouldn't result in muchweight savings. And it's worth noting that mass near the grip has lesseffect than mass further out toward the tip. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found itinteresting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks with Gorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt spline that I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out the apex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths ofoutside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gatherabout 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram perspline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. Ipresume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effectsof hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow buildingisrelated to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose thatfluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any specialproperties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Apr 2 09:06:55 2001 f32E6tS05241 Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:06:53 -0700 Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth the time? Mark,A little experiential reflection. I built a 8.5' 9 weight last summer. Beforescalloped hollow building the butt and mid sections, the rod weighed 7.5ounces.Before glue. Before Guides. Before varnish. After hollowing, adding glue, guides, varnish -- the rod weighs 6.2 ounces. Is it worth it? I think so... Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effectsof hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow building isrelated to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose thatfluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 2 09:46:40 2001 f32EkdS07689 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? I have to concur with Harry on this. I built a 9' 9 wt rod, hollow built,that weighed 5.75 ounces... much less that the original non hollow builtthat weight almost 8 ounces. That 2 1/4 ounces on a big rod will definitelybe noticable at the end of a days fishing... that's like taping my 2 wt rodto the 9 wt and fishing it. Huge difference. Bob PS: Harry... Billie caught her biggest bow yet Friday Night... I haven'tseen her since we got back, she's running around town telling everyone aboutit! LOL For those that don't know Billie, she just started flyfishing inAugust last year, and caught a wild cut on her fifth cast... she then wentwithout catching a fish until February of this year... Up until Friday, herbiggest fish was a 14" bow, she nailed a nice 18"er on the Norfork Fridayevening, on a 6' 4 wt... it was hilarious just watching her face when sherealized she had a good fish on the end of that little rod!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Mark,A little experiential reflection. I built a 8.5' 9 weight last summer.Beforescalloped hollow building the butt and mid sections, the rod weighed 7.5ounces.Before glue. Before Guides. Before varnish. After hollowing, adding glue, guides, varnish -- the rod weighs 6.2ounces. Is it worth it? I think so... Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight savingeffectsof hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollowbuilding isrelated to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose thatfluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Apr 2 10:21:19 2001 f32FLIS09532 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- isit worth the time? Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 06:23:40 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Mark, Tried the hollow strip thing 4>5 years ago by building 2 rods from thesame culm alternating strips and finished the same way.Solid rod would cast marginally farther than hollowed out rod. Left sidewall @ 0.080" and solid under ferrules and guide feet. Tip hollowed out tothe 0.080" mark.I would think that the weight loss was not compensated by the performanceloss. catch ya' Don At 12:33 AM 4/2/01 EDT, you wrote: Return-path: From: Bamboomaker@aol.comFull-name: BamboomakerMessage- ID: Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:34:47 EDTSubject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 127 Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found it interesting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks withGorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt splinethat I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out theapex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths of outside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gather about 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram per spline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. I presume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effects of hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollowbuilding is related to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose that fluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any special properties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Apr 2 10:34:13 2001 f32FYCS10456 Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am sure sandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinking ofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my strips tofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair under thetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Apr 2 10:44:48 2001 f32FikS11367 Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? Ah, the inquiring mind:Part of the rationale for building hollow rods or rods with inserts in themas I do, is simply to do something different from others. It also satisfiesthe curious who like to experiment just to see what happens. And then too,there's always the quest to find a way to improve the product. No doubt itincreases the time and energy it takes to build a rod but then for longerrods such as those 8 1/2 ft or longer it makes enough difference in theweight of the rod to make it worth while at the end of a day of casting. Onething is for sure, it certainly makes it difficult for anyone else toexactly duplicate your rod because the secrets are hidden inside.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worththe time? from martinj@aa.net Mon Apr 2 15:42:07 2001 f32Kg6S25279 Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:42:04 -0700 Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank A scraper works well for cleaning the glue off. I use the side edge of myoriginal Stanley plane blade that I've replaced with a Hock. Free hand held Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am sure sandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinking ofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my strips tofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair under thetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Apr 2 18:07:45 2001 f32N7iS03421 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. Marinaro says:page 52 - " For me, effective length is a very serious matter. In much ofmy meadow stream fishing, it is often necessary to kneel or even lie proneon one side to avoid spooking a nervous trout. A cast under thosecircumstance, especially a long one, needs a effective length that willhold the cast well above ground."page 54 - " I used to dream of a dry-fly rod - nine feet long, weighingunder four ounces"Page 54 - " I floundered about a great deal until I made the acquaintanceof the late Robert Crompton, a professional rod-builder from Saint Paul,Minnesota."Page 54 - "Crompton used to insist over and over again that no rod is fitto be a casting tool if it is made with a straight taper."Page 55 - "Convex tapers are not a new thing"Page 55 - " For many years I experimented a great deal with convex tapersand made some very good rods. But I was always obsessed with the idea ofgetting more length. I still wanted that nine footer".Page 59 - " The rod I wanted has the virtues of the dry-fly tip-action rodplus the durability of the parabolic and progressive tapers".Page 59 - " The butt joint of my projected nine-footer was no problem. Iwanted it stiff enough to confine the action in the upper regions. Iemployed, therefore, the full convex in sketch 2. The middle joint wheremost of the bend would take place needed a modified or delayed convex as insketch 3. The desired effect here was to soften and spread the bend over agreater area than the fragile tip-action dry-fly rod. The top joint neededrefinement for delicacy in short casts, plus some stiffening from theconvex design to prevent excessive fallover on the longer casts."Page 59 - " The top half of the top joint is the most critical area in anyrod. It is the part the delivers the final impulse or thrust thatdetermines the character of the cast."Page 60 - " Any one of the convex joints that I have designed and shown insketches 2,3 and 4 by itself, would not make a good rod. All of themtogether or in combination make a superb rod. That is that way I got mynine-foot dry-fly rod, weighing less than four ounces."And from page 41 - "Accordingly, I have designed all my trout rods to carryonly one weight of line, a 5 weight." OK, that's the way Marinaro described Heaven. The challenge was totranslate his words and sketches into a taper that reflected what hedescribed. from the sketches, tapers that I've made or cast, blind intuition or damnsilliness, I attempted to figure out just what the measurements of this rod.The sketches showed a distinct drop in taper near both ferrules. Further,the rate of change is 0.01435/5" of rod travel over the effective castinglength. This rate of change should be enough to support a rod of this length.With these thoughts in mind, I plotted a taper as follows:0 - 0.0715 - 0.07810 - 0.09715 - .11620 - .13225 - .14630 - .15635 - .16440 - .17445 - .18650 - .20055 - .21660 - .23465 - .25170 - .26175 - .26980 - .27985 - .29690 - 31395 - .330100 - .347105 - 364110 - .381 Now, the question I got for you folks - Is this a approximation of theMarinaro rod? catch ya' Don from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Apr 2 18:32:07 2001 f32NW6S04317 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:10 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank References: Hi, A babbet bearing hollow scraper works well. With 3 sides, slightlysharpened, there is less chance of digging into the blank. catch ya' Don At 01:42 PM 4/2/01 -0700, you wrote:A scraper works well for cleaning the glue off. I use the side edge of myoriginal Stanley plane blade that I've replaced with a Hock. Free hand held Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 8:37 AM Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am suresandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinking ofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my strips tofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair under thetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Mon Apr 2 18:38:01 2001 f32NbxS04577 ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:22:15 -0400 Subject: opening day Any one out there? Seems like some opening days like here in NY (yesterday) must have put the "Gone Fishing" sign on the list.Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Apr 2 19:13:40 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f330DdS05605 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don -- I don't know what Marinaro would think, but it looks a lot like aGranger/Phillipson taper, but with much less pronounced "humps" or concavesections. Very interesting. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. Marinaro says:page 52 - " For me, effective length is a very serious matter. In much ofmy meadow stream fishing, it is often necessary to kneel or even lie proneon one side to avoid spooking a nervous trout. A cast under thosecircumstance, especially a long one, needs a effective length that willhold the cast well above ground."page 54 - " I used to dream of a dry-fly rod - nine feet long, weighingunder four ounces"Page 54 - " I floundered about a great deal until I made the acquaintanceof the late Robert Crompton, a professional rod-builder from Saint Paul,Minnesota."Page 54 - "Crompton used to insist over and over again that no rod is fitto be a casting tool if it is made with a straight taper."Page 55 - "Convex tapers are not a new thing"Page 55 - " For many years I experimented a great deal with convex tapersand made some very good rods. But I was always obsessed with the idea ofgetting more length. I still wanted that nine footer".Page 59 - " The rod I wanted has the virtues of the dry-fly tip-action rodplus the durability of the parabolic and progressive tapers".Page 59 - " The butt joint of my projected nine-footer was no problem. Iwanted it stiff enough to confine the action in the upper regions. Iemployed, therefore, the full convex in sketch 2. The middle joint wheremost of the bend would take place needed a modified or delayed convex as insketch 3. The desired effect here was to soften and spread the bend over agreater area than the fragile tip-action dry-fly rod. The top joint neededrefinement for delicacy in short casts, plus some stiffening from theconvex design to prevent excessive fallover on the longer casts."Page 59 - " The top half of the top joint is the most critical area in anyrod. It is the part the delivers the final impulse or thrust thatdetermines the character of the cast."Page 60 - " Any one of the convex joints that I have designed and shown insketches 2,3 and 4 by itself, would not make a good rod. All of themtogether or in combination make a superb rod. That is that way I got mynine-foot dry-fly rod, weighing less than four ounces."And from page 41 - "Accordingly, I have designed all my trout rods to carryonly one weight of line, a 5 weight." OK, that's the way Marinaro described Heaven. The challenge was totranslate his words and sketches into a taper that reflected what hedescribed. from the sketches, tapers that I've made or cast, blind intuition or damnsilliness, I attempted to figure out just what the measurements of this rod.The sketches showed a distinct drop in taper near both ferrules. Further,the rate of change is 0.01435/5" of rod travel over the effective castinglength. This rate of change should be enough to support a rod of thislength.With these thoughts in mind, I plotted a taper as follows:0 - 0.0715 - 0.07810 - 0.09715 - .11620 - .13225 - .14630 - .15635 - .16440 - .17445 - .18650 - .20055 - .21660 - .23465 - .25170 - .26175 - .26980 - .27985 - .29690 - 31395 - .330100 - .347105 - 364110 - .381 Now, the question I got for you folks - Is this a approximation of theMarinaro rod? catch ya' Don from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Apr 2 19:13:50 2001 f330DnS05612 f330DFr27321;Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:13:15 -0500 Subject: Re: "Degluing" the blank I wipe off as much excess glue as I can before it sets and use single edgerazorblades to scrap the hard stuff off.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:10 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank References: Hi, A babbet bearing hollow scraper works well. With 3 sides, slightlysharpened, there is less chance of digging into the blank. catch ya' Don At 01:42 PM 4/2/01 -0700, you wrote:A scraper works well for cleaning the glue off. I use the side edge of myoriginal Stanley plane blade that I've replaced with a Hock. Free hand held Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu jmpio@nhbm.comSent: Monday, April 02, 2001 8:37 AM Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am suresandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinkingofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my stripstofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair underthetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 2 19:21:36 2001 f330LZS06093 ;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:21:31 +0000 Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] You want to talk to Bill Harms, since he worked with Vince and learned someof Vince's tapers. Jack from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 2 19:28:55 2001 f330SsS06418 Subject: Re: "Degluing" the blank Russ Gooding of Golden Witch has them, but any good industrial supply storecarries them. Often called a deburring tool. I like to sharpen mine until theyare quite sharp, but the point is blunt so it does not act like a knife, butrather like a scraper. Ralph That is a plug for Russ but only because he is the only rob building supplierthat carries the tool (that I know about) Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:10 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank References: Hi, A babbet bearing hollow scraper works well. With 3 sides, slightlysharpened, there is less chance of digging into the blank. catch ya' Don from BigJohn47@aol.com Mon Apr 2 19:49:31 2001 f330nUS07071 Subject: ring of fire does this ring of fire contraption really better than other methods or is it hype, just curious. t.i.a. does this ring of fire hype, just curious. from hartzell@easystreet.com Mon Apr 2 21:43:09 2001 f332h9S10063 f332h6922067; Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don,I spent quite a bit of time trying to get Marinaro tapers without muchluck. It seems that they are in the hands of a Pennsylvania museum whichplansto publish a book about Marinaro and does not want to let them out beforetheproper time in order to keep the book's value high. One of the Master's rodsbuilt in the east (a small one) was designed to Marinaro's specs. I think I canfind that for you, but it is not the 9 footer you are talking about. The peoplewho built it were not that pleased with the action. I too have wanted to buildsomething that was close to his work to see what it felt like, but it looks asthough we shall have to wait until they choose to release the figures. Let meknow if anything happens as a result of your research.Ed Hartzell Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. Marinaro says:page 52 - " For me, effective length is a very serious matter. In much ofmy meadow stream fishing, it is often necessary to kneel or even lie proneon one side to avoid spooking a nervous trout. A cast under thosecircumstance, especially a long one, needs a effective length that willhold the cast well above ground."page 54 - " I used to dream of a dry-fly rod - nine feet long, weighingunder four ounces"Page 54 - " I floundered about a great deal until I made the acquaintanceof the late Robert Crompton, a professional rod-builder from Saint Paul,Minnesota."Page 54 - "Crompton used to insist over and over again that no rod is fitto be a casting tool if it is made with a straight taper."Page 55 - "Convex tapers are not a new thing"Page 55 - " For many years I experimented a great deal with convex tapersand made some very good rods. But I was always obsessed with the idea ofgetting more length. I still wanted that nine footer".Page 59 - " The rod I wanted has the virtues of the dry-fly tip-action rodplus the durability of the parabolic and progressive tapers".Page 59 - " The butt joint of my projected nine-footer was no problem. Iwanted it stiff enough to confine the action in the upper regions. Iemployed, therefore, the full convex in sketch 2. The middle joint wheremost of the bend would take place needed a modified or delayed convex asinsketch 3. The desired effect here was to soften and spread the bend overagreater area than the fragile tip-action dry-fly rod. The top joint neededrefinement for delicacy in short casts, plus some stiffening from theconvex design to prevent excessive fallover on the longer casts."Page 59 - " The top half of the top joint is the most critical area in anyrod. It is the part the delivers the final impulse or thrust thatdetermines the character of the cast."Page 60 - " Any one of the convex joints that I have designed and shown insketches 2,3 and 4 by itself, would not make a good rod. All of themtogether or in combination make a superb rod. That is that way I got mynine-foot dry-fly rod, weighing less than four ounces."And from page 41 - "Accordingly, I have designed all my trout rods to carryonly one weight of line, a 5 weight." OK, that's the way Marinaro described Heaven. The challenge was totranslate his words and sketches into a taper that reflected what hedescribed. from the sketches, tapers that I've made or cast, blind intuition or damnsilliness, I attempted to figure out just what the measurements of thisrod.The sketches showed a distinct drop in taper near both ferrules. Further,the rate of change is 0.01435/5" of rod travel over the effective castinglength. This rate of change should be enough to support a rod of thislength.With these thoughts in mind, I plotted a taper as follows:0 - 0.0715 - 0.07810 - 0.09715 - .11620 - .13225 - .14630 - .15635 - .16440 - .17445 - .18650 - .20055 - .21660 - .23465 - .25170 - .26175 - .26980 - .27985 - .29690 - 31395 - .330100 - .347105 - 364110 - .381 Now, the question I got for you folks - Is this a approximation of theMarinaro rod? catch ya' Don from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Apr 2 21:57:24 2001 f332vNS10552 Subject: Re: opening day Hi Bob,Got back from the Brodhead in P.A. Water temp. was 38 degrees. All Ican say is that taper you have of the 8' 2 piece Edward's quad slings aweighted stone fly nymph beautifully. Hope to try it next weekend, withmy silk line, (thanks) on some Quill Gordons.....Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: Any one out there? Seems like some opening days like here in NY(yesterday)must have put the "Gone Fishing" sign on the list.Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 23:42:37 2001 f334gaS12849 VAA11745; Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don I have the same burning question. Some time back a list member got hold ofMarinaro rods from his family, they were suppose to go to a museum orsomething. If I remember he was suppose to make known the taper to all. Iguess that never transpired. I read one post that said to get the taper youhad to donate money to the museum or something like that. One of thereasons I have taken up the art of the split cane was to unravel the rod ofthe "In the Ring of the Rise". What does the stress reading look like inHexrod? Might be interesting. Adam Vigil, D.C.----- Original Message ----- Subject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. from cwgray@lightcom.net Tue Apr 3 00:32:26 2001 f335WOS14219 Subject: (Fwd) Idaho Water Article Folks, Sorry if this is a lot of bandwidth. You may have heard that in the PNW we are a tad short on water this year. This article is from the Register's Outdoor section last week. I was in Oregon last week, the Portland paper had a main article on the first spring chinook salmon season since 1979. Maybe the last for awhile again with the low flows... ------- Forwarded message follows ------- March 29, 2001, ThursdaySECTION: News; Pg. d6LENGTH: 2487 wordsHEADLINE: Water worries - Truths, myths and unknown details of theimpendinglow-water year BYLINE: Rob Thornberry BODY: Let's play Chicken Little, and worry a bit.2001 is shaping up P for three reasons - as the driest year on record.First, there's little snow in the mountains. At the 25 measuring stations inthe Upper Snake River Valley, this year's winter moisture was roughly halfthe30-year average. Only the drought winter of 1977 received less snow.Second,there's not much water in the reservoirs. There's 20 percent less waterstoredin the system today than there was in the spring of 1992, the driest year ofthe 1990s. "We've never had this combination of low snow and low reservoirlevels before,'' said Lyle Swank of the Idaho Department of Water Resources.Third, forecasters are calling for a hot, dry summer. If the weather patternshold, the sky may really be falling: Next winter's flows on the South Forkcould drop below 1,000 cfs. Last winter, the flow was 1,100 cfs and itangeredanglers who thought the river's cutthroat fishery was being ruined. Onewaterofficial says there's a chance lower sections of the river could dry upcompletely. Small irrigation reservoirs like Glendale, Condie, Johnson andLamont could be drained dry, killing fish. There won't be enough water topushsalmon and steelhead smolts to the sea. The water temperatures may raisehighenough to doom next year's steelhead run by stalling and killing the fishbehind dams on the Columbia and lower Snake. Simply put, it's bleak news foranglers, whether they like trout, steelhead or bass. Adding to theuncertainty,the Committee of Nine is floating a proposal to deregulate how water isboughtand sold. If new rules are adopted, farmers could sell their water to IdahoPower for $60 to $100 per acre foot. There is no telling how that will affectanglers and fish. Today, the Post Register P er, the Chicken Little Gazette? -looks at water and its relationship to fishing. We present the good, the badand the potentially ugly consequences of this year's water situation.Everything is predicated on the weather. If it is cold and wet this summer,most problems won't surface. If it stays dry and warm, watch out. For moreinformation about water, the Bureau of Reclamation is hosting aninformationalmeeting, April 4 at the Pond Student Union at Idaho State University inPocatello. The meeting starts at 7 p.m. For now, though, let's worry a bit.Therealities ... Hot early, hot weather late. Fishing is going to be great earlyin the year and terrible in August and September, anglers and biologistsagree.Because of low runoff, rivers like the Teton and the South Fork should be infishable shape early, probably even for the Memorial Day opener. Thestoneflyhatch should be particularly good. Later in the year, water temperatures intheregion's rivers will rise and the fishing will slow. "Just like 1992, it'll bedead in August,'' said longtime angler Bruce Staples. A salvage season forbass. Prompted by irrigation, several southeastern Idaho reservoirs weredrained last year, prompting Fish and Game to open salvage seasons onHawkinsand Condie reservoirs. Biologists also moved bass from Condie to GlendaleReservoir. The outlook is the same for this year, said Harry Morse, Fish andGame spokesman in Pocatello. Threatened reservoirs include Condie,Hawkins,Lamont, Winder and Johnson. If there are problems, biologists will again opensalvage seasons. They will also try to move bass. The department's biggestchallenge may be finding places to put bass. "Where do you move bass if youhave no place to move them?'' Morse asked. "That's something we are lookingat.We don't know the answer right now so we're putting together plans andcontingency plans.'' The hatches will come early. Because the water will below, the bug hatches will come early in 2001, anglers said. A good example isthe spring's blue-winged olive hatch. Normally, it peaks around April 15. Thisyear, it started a week ago and could be over by tax day. In some cases, thehatches won't come at all. For example, gray drakes are plentiful in highwateryears. They won't be this year. Steelhead and salmon fishing will soon suffer.Because of the drought, this year's migration conditions for salmon andsteelhead smolts are among the worst ever, said Virgil Moore, head offisheriesdivision for Fish and Game. Smolts ride the annual runoff to the ocean.Withoutlots of water, lots of fish will die behind dams. Because so many smolts won'tmake it to the ocean, steelhead fishing could suffer next fall and salmonfishing could be hurt as early as 2002. "It's bad. It's gonna be as low asurvival as we've ever seen,'' Moore said. The conditions are particularlytough on wild salmon. There weren't many wild fish on redds last year, whichmeans there won't be a lot of smolts heading to the ocean. And those thatdomove downstream will have a tough time, Moore said. "It's a double whammy,''Moore said. Some rivers will run dry. Rivers without reservoirs, like the lowerportions of the Big Wood and the lower stretch of the Big Lost near Moorewillrun dry this summer, Moore said. ... the myths ... Low flows automaticallymeanfewer fish. One of the great misconceptions in eastern Idaho this year isthatthe winter's low flows will damage the South Fork fishery, said Mark Gamblin,fisheries manager in Idaho Falls. "We don't have a clearly defined relationshipbetween lower flows and fish mortality,'' he said. "Anglers can believe thatless water means fewer fish, but it's not that simple.'' Mother Natureannuallyproduces more fish than necessary. Lots die. Fish evolved in droughts andfloods and biologists frankly don't understand how many are needed eachyear tofuel the fishery. Of course a lack of water will kill some fish, but thatdoesn't mean anglers will see a decline in the fishery. "The single mostimportant concept is that you can't stockpile wildlife,'' Gamblin said."Natural mortality drives the availability of fish and wildlife.'' Let's put itanother way. At 1,500 cfs, the river's fish population may produce 1 millionfry. (The numbers are hypothetical.) Because of predators and competitionforfood and living space, 500,000 fish may live through their first winter. Thatmay be twice as many as is needed to have a healthy fishery or it may be theriver's carrying capacity. Nobody knows. The same is true at a lower flow,especially a one-time flow like this winter's 1,100 cfs. At 1,100 cfs, theriver's population may produce 750,000 fry. Because of predators andcompetition, only 300,000 may live through the first winter. That may ormaynot be enough fish to fill the river's available habitat, Gamblin said. "Waterand fish survival are related,'' Gamblin said. "We don't know what thebreakingpoint is.'' History backs Gamblin's assertion. Despite the prolonged droughtofthe late 1980s, the fish populations on the South Fork and Henry's Forksurvived and quickly thrived again. "Once we got our flows back, in areas withgood habitat, we got our populations back quickly,'' said Virgil Moore, head offisheries department for Fish and Game. Closing rivers to protect fish isunavoidable. Water temperatures are going to rise as flows decrease. Atsomepoint, the water temperature may become lethal, especially to fish caughtandstressed by anglers. Because of that, some anglers want Fish and Game toimplement closures. Gamblin said closures are unnecessary. "I have littlefaithto say we could show a benefit to fish or anglers by instituting a closure,''he said. Montana closes the Big Hole River when the water flow gets too low,but Gamblin doesn't believe the closure is for biological reasons. It's agood-faith gesture to farmers and ranchers, who agreed to leave water inthestreams during the heart of the summer, Gamblin said. "It's myunderstanding ofthe situation that the basic message to irrigators has been 'give us somewaterand we'll take steps to protect the fishery,' '' Gamblin said. "You can'tregulate for individual fish or individual anglers,'' he said. ... and theworst case ince there is little water in the mountains or in the region'sstorage reservoirs, irrigators could use all the water in the system thisyear,said Ron Carlson, watermaster for the Upper Snake River Valley. What thatmeansto the rivers, the fish and the anglers is unknown. "We've never been therebefore,'' Carlson said. "We don't know what will happen when our ability todeliver storage is limited. Having storage in those reservoirs is what makesthe system work.'' The possibilities are frightening. For example, portions ofthe South Fork could be dewatered, Carlson said. If in September, irrigatorsare still pulling water from the river and Water District 1 doesn't have anymore water to release from Palisades Reservoir or Jackson Lake, sections ofriver could go dry. "We could see the river at Lorenzo run dry or the river atBlackfoot run dry,'' Carlson said. "That's the worst-case scenario I couldsee.'' Carlson's office faced a similar dilemma in 1992. The problem wasaverted when a hard frost hit in late August of that year, ending theirrigation season. This year is similar to 1992, with one major exception:Water managers are starting the year down 300,000 acre feet from 1992."Thisyear's problems are reality, not supposition,'' Carlson said. To exacerbatethesituation, the West's power crunch is making water extremely valuable, whichopens the door for big money interests to dictate flows. Idaho Power hasoffered to buy any storage for at least $60 per acre foot. If that plan isadopted, the strains on an already burdened water system will be enormous."I'mafraid we're going to see more requests where the sportsmen are asked tobearthe brunt of keeping power prices down and power available,'' said VirgilMoore, head of fisheries for the Idaho Department of Fish and Game. Tomake hispoint, Moore points to Idaho Power's request to divert water out of theSnakeRiver below Milner Dam. The water will be piped down a canal and pushedthroughan efficient turbine. That's good for electricity, bad for the river. More thana mile of stream will be dried up. "The competition for winter water could geteven more severe,'' he said. There is one sliver of good news. Despite thefactthat commodity prices continue to flounder, Carlson said it is unlikely mostirrigators will sell their water to Idaho Power. He said every member of anirrigation district would have to agree to sell, which is unlikely, especiallyin large irrigation districts. That is little solace to Mark Gamblin, fisheriesmanager in Idaho Falls. "We're going to suffer constraints because of thewatersituation,'' he said. "It's very gloom, and there's very little we can doexcept educate anglers about the inevitable.'' ----------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- C W Graycwgray@lightcom.net from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 3 06:11:01 2001 f33BB0S17957 f33BB0Ud032621;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 06:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: ring of fire I can only relate than my PHY rods seem to have an extra amount of power,that I don't notice with other cane rods I fish. Paul felt his heattreatment, developed over many years, did temper the culms power fibersandgave them more strength.GMA from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Apr 3 06:31:23 2001 f33BVMS18380 ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:30:14 -0400 Subject: PHY 5 strip I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay? I cannot believe it. Is this a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else, it should be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Apr 3 06:37:55 2001 f33BbsS18628 ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:37:43 -0400 Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip Replying to myself....Maybe an Uslan sold through PHY's shop? from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 3 07:48:52 2001 f33CmpS19717 Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don - This is a mystery that I also would like to see solved. I have never seen the 9 footer, but have heard it was a really good rod from some people who cast it and know what they are doing. Marinaro's and Crompton's taper theories seem strange to me. I can't comprehend how they would not hingeat the ferrule areas, but hey, I've been wrong before. The thing that really baffles me is the "under 4 ounces" part for a 9 foot rod with a stiff butt. I figured the theoretical weight of your taper (cane only) at over 5 ounces. That is based on Wayne's hex96c program, which conviently reports this number. Garrison's math does not compensate forthe drop in density due to increasing pith in thicker sections, so the weights are always high, but even deducting 25%, it hard to see how you could bring the rod in under 4 ounces. Maybe you have some data from similar tapers?I do believe the good people working on the museum project will eventually publish, and help us solve the mystery. As you may know, Marinaro was extraordinarily secretive about his tapers, and no one I have ever heard of claims to have any real information, even those who were close to Mr. Marinaro. from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 3 07:54:25 2001 f33CsOS19997 Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip Hi Bob,The last 4 days I have been unable to get through to e-bay. Is it somethingwrong on my side? I have treid two seperate computers and both IE andNetscaspe. Rich-----Original Message----- Subject: PHY 5 strip I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay? I cannot believe it. Isthis a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else, itshould be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 3 07:55:44 2001 f33CthS20171 f33CthUd010426;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:55:43 -0500 Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip My first thought is an Uslan that PHY rebuilt, or got the blank for. As muchas he experimented though, there's no telling ????GMA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 3 07:56:11 2001 f33CuAS20265 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:55:29 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip --------------720BD48DA4A0A26E89CB9418 Bob,something seems fishy here, no pun intended ?? For a rod that is inexcellent condition, it looks to me that the tips are different lengths and thewrapping on the tip tops is different too? Is that what passes for anexcellentcondition, only fished a couple hours, off the showroom rod nowadays??I would definitely want some reassurance and better pictures before Ievenconsidered looking at this one.Not always, but most times when money is involved, if it smells like askunkit more often than not is a skunk!Shawn Bob Maulucci wrote: I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay? I cannot believe it. Isthis a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else, itshould be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------720BD48DA4A0A26E89CB9418 Bob, here, to me that the tips are different lengths and the wrapping on the tip topsis different too? Is that what passes for an excellent condition, only want some reassurance and better pictures before I even considered lookingat this one. whenmoney is involved, if it smells like a skunk it more often than not isa skunk! Shawn Bob Maulucci wrote:I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay?I cannot believe it. Isthis a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else,itshould be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------720BD48DA4A0A26E89CB9418-- from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 3 08:51:29 2001 f33DpSS22719 Subject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that i =don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history =of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to my =problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris =bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set =the forms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get = i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to be =more accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean i =am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it is =as though i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight =zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss =feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike list, come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has = in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal = compared to my problem. = dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on = rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to work indepently = other. i get different readings with each system. know i should trust = (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), but = the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go = mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with = and toss feathery equations that have the mass of a black =hole.. upstairs? mike from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Apr 3 09:09:41 2001 f33E9eS23484 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reel foot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + the handleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got to under4 ozs. catch ya' Don from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 3 09:23:36 2001 f33ENZS24221 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:23:31 -0700 Subject: Re: parallel universe --------------34BC5FAD2017B9B2180852EC Mike,I've been using a Waara v-block on and off for a coupleof years. One thing I've learned is that it is less than equilaterals. Guess I'm saying that just because all threesides measure equal with the v-block, that doesn't mean theyare equal.Do some measuring without the v-block. That might bethe source of your measuring errors. Be completely surethat each strip at each station is completely equilateral.Otherwise, you'll have skewed numbers and quite likely, uglyglue lines. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool. But it has somelimitations for which we must account. Harry mike canazon wrote: i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. iwent to chris bogart's site and got instruction on usingdrill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seemsto work indepently of the other. i get different readingswith each system. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------34BC5FAD2017B9B2180852EC Mike, saying that just because all three sides measure equal with the v-block,that doesn't mean they are equal. That Otherwise,you'll have skewed numbers and quite likely, ugly glue lines. it has some limitations for which we must account. mike canazon wrote: ordereda waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site andgot instruction on using drill rods to accurately set the forms. each systemseems to work indepently of the other. i get different readings with eachsystem. --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------34BC5FAD2017B9B2180852EC-- from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Apr 3 09:25:04 2001 f33EP3S24388 Subject: RE: parallel universe this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I had the same problem. Used three different methods for measuring depth:rods, depth guage, and test strips, and got three different results.Finally realized I was being a complete idiot and reading my depth guageincorrectly. Upon reading it correctly, the guage and the rods methodstarted matching up within 2 thou's, and I decided to average thosemeasurements. A machinist I ain't, and don't think I ever will achieve theaccuracy I desire. -----Original Message----- Subject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that idon't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history ofthe rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to my problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chrisbogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set theforms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get differentreadings with each system. i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to bemore accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean i amoff by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it is asthough i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight zone,whereeinstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss feathery equationsthat have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike I had depth: rods, realized I was being a complete idiot and reading my depth guage started matching up within 2 thou's, and I decided to average those the accuracy I desire. -----Original Message-----From: mike canazon 2001 8:51 parallel universelist, (#1) i have come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be galfridays compared to my problem. block and a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to workindepently of the other. i get different readings with each system. the rods (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), buthow can the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go door of a mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt mewith numbers and toss feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole.. upstairs? mike from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Apr 3 10:31:27 2001 f33FVQS27873 IAA29262; Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Don, I ran your numbers through Hexrod and the stress curve is interesting. I amno expert in reading or understanding the Hexrod program but how I read itis there is alot of stress in the tip about 4000 and it decreases to justbefore the 1st ferrul. Then the stress moderatly increases in the midsection and then taper down to a slight increase in the but section. In myminds eye this is how I have envisioned the mulitple convex tapers wouldact. The stress numbers look rather high 4000 in the tip and 2000 in thebut. I am wondering if the overall dimensions of the rod could be decreased.I wonder if a decrease in the dimensions would be fesible for a 9 foot roddue to the strength increase of the convex area of the taper. I wonder ifthe numbers you provided wouldnt be more suitable to a line heavier than a5wt. I plugged in a 5 wt line because that is the only one Marinaro used. Iwill send you the info from Hexrod. I will do it this afternoon. Maybesomeone can get this 9ft 5wt with a tip action under 4oz nailed. I wouldexpect alot of cane rod caster might not like his rod. He wanted a tipcasting rod and as you know did not like the parabolics. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: More on Marinaro Rod from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 3 11:01:32 2001 f33G1VS29404 Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Folks,I was at a fly shop on Sunday and there were two flyfishers there thatfished with Marinaro. They said in passing that the rod he liked to fishwith had a metal spike that slid from the handle that he would stick in theground when not fishing. I found that quite interesting. Rich-----Original Message----- Subject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reel foot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + the handleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got tounder4 ozs. catch ya' Don from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 3 11:31:22 2001 f33GVLS01483 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your rod downand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt, etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way the lastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objects protruding from my rod! Bob -----Original Message----- rodmakers@mail.wustL.edu Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Folks,I was at a fly shop on Sunday and there were two flyfishers there thatfished with Marinaro. They said in passing that the rod he liked to fishwith had a metal spike that slid from the handle that he would stick in theground when not fishing. I found that quite interesting. Rich-----Original Message-----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 1:09 PMSubject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reelfoot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + thehandleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got tounder4 ozs. catch ya' Don from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 3 11:48:57 2001 f33GmvS02439 Subject: Paul Young 5 sider Hey, I have a PHY 4 footer made of fiberglass and a PHY where he actually used an Orvis blank! Paul Young Rod Company sold reel seat hardware with their name stamped onit. In fact, in 1961 when Art Warner made the 4 footer I refer to, he was told I suspect that some guy bought a Herter's slab, planed up a 5 sided rod and used the ferrules, thread seat hardware etc he bought from PHY. Remember twenty years ago when the only really good hardware you could buy was fromT & T? You saw lots of rods with T & T caps and rings. Years ago, I am sure the same was true with PHY hardware. Chris Lucker from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 12:51:32 2001 f33HpQS05124 2001 10:51:27 PDT Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] i am assuming this is a 3pc rod? timothy --- Adam Vigil wrote:Don I have the same burning question. Some time back alist member got hold ofMarinaro rods from his family, they were suppose togo to a museum orsomething. If I remember he was suppose to makeknown the taper to all. Iguess that never transpired. I read one post thatsaid to get the taper youhad to donate money to the museum or something likethat. One of thereasons I have taken up the art of the split canewas to unravel the rod ofthe "In the Ring of the Rise". What does the stressreading look like inHexrod? Might be interesting. Adam Vigil, D.C.----- Original Message -----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:25 PMSubject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [long ] Guys/Gals, measure for a rod thatMarinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise"pages 52>60. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Apr 3 14:01:57 2001 f33J1tS08155 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:01:51 -0700 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:01:50 -0700 Subject: More on Marinaro Rod FILETIME=[8A7D4B40:01C0BC70] Hello List, I did a quick search on Vincent Marinaro and found where his personalfishing effects are to be housed. Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum Association1240 North Mountain RoadHarrisburg, PA 171121-717-541-0622 The Museum Web site is: http://www.paflyfishing.org/ The web page about the collection:http://www.paflyfishing.org/new_page_5.htm Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320-0349;USA URL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010403T190148ZEND:VCARD from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 3 14:07:05 2001 f33J75S08539 Subject: Fwd: FW: Johnny/delete if you do not want another joke Guys, She is at it again. My wife seems to have too much free time on her handsat work. Hope you guys are not Democrats. Seems like I do not have much toadd to the list lately except jokes. Hey, shoot me.Bret 03 Apr 2001 14:24:02 -0500 Apr 2001 14:23:37 2000 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 13:22:37 -0500 Subject: Fwd: FW: Johnny "jennie " ,"ray/jill " ,"mom/rick " ,"jane " ,"laura " ,"linda " ,"rachel " ,"jeunesse " ,"christina/work " ,"penny " ,"jamie " ,"shannon " ,"angie " Subject: Fwd: FW: Johnny 0500 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:10:30 -0500 2001 11:10:15 -0500 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:10:15 -0500 , "Jackie Holycross", "Jamie Hayden", "Kathy Conrad", "Ruth Scaife" , "Shalanda Jackson", "Sheila Johnson", "Tasha Townsend", "'Ann'" , "'Aunt \"R\"'" , "'Becca'", "'Becky'" , "'Bev'", "'Cat'" , "'Chelly-Chell'" , "'G-Baby'", "'Georgiana'" , "'Kari'" , "'Mom'" , "'Qi Qi'" , "'Tracy'" Subject: FW: Johnny FILETIME=[91F3C5B0:01C0BC58]  The teacher says, "I'm going to ask some questions. Whoever answers the questions first, and correctly, can leave early today." Little Johnny says to himself, "Good, I want to get outta here. I'm clever - That answer's mine!" The teacher asked, "Who said 'Four Score and Seven Years Ago' "? Before Johnny could open his mouth, Susie said, "Abraham Lincoln!" The teacher said, "That's right, Susie, you can go." Johnny was mad. Susie had answered first. The teacher asked, "Who said, 'I Have a Dream?' " Before Johnny could open his mouth, Mary said, "Martin Luther King." The teacher said, "That's right, Mary, you can go." Johnny was even madder than before. Mary had answered first. The teacher asked, "Who said 'Ask not, what your country can do for you.' " Before Johnny could open his mouth, Nancy said, "John Kennedy." The teacher said, "That's right, Nancy, you can go." Johnny was fuming. Nancy had answered first. As the teacher sat down, Johnny muttered, "I wish those bitches had kept their mouths shut." The shocked teacher asked, "Who said that?" Johnny jumped up and hollered, "Bill Clinton! See you Monday!"    Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including anyattachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and maycontain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorizedreview, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are notthe intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail anddestroy all copies of the original message. PARTNERS Health Plan Phone: 219-233-4899100 E. Wayne St., Suite 502 Fax: 219-234-7484South Bend, IN 46601 www.partnersindiana.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 3 14:28:26 2001 f33JSPS09575 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Paul Young 5 sider Well then, I'm glad I got out bid at $825... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Paul Young 5 sider Hey, I have a PHY 4 footer made of fiberglass and a PHY where he actuallyused an Orvis blank!Paul Young Rod Company sold reel seat hardware with their name stamped onit.In fact, in 1961 when Art Warner made the 4 footer I refer to, he was told I suspect that some guy bought a Herter's slab, planed up a 5 sided rod andused the ferrules, thread seat hardware etc he bought from PHY. Remembertwenty years ago when the only really good hardware you could buy was fromT& T? You saw lots of rods with T & T caps and rings. Years ago, I am surethe same was true with PHY hardware. Chris Lucker from gdabrowski@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 14:29:09 2001 f33JT8S09667 2001 12:29:09 PDT Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip Or... Maybe someone elses home made 5 strip put up withreel seat hardware salvaged from a PHY rod orpurchased from PHY. --- Bob Maulucci wrote:Replying to myself....Maybe an Uslan sold through PHY's shop? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 3 14:53:56 2001 f33JrtS11521 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: More on Marinaro Rod I believe Tom Whittle is the curator and is on this list... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: More on Marinaro Rod Hello List, I did a quick search on Vincent Marinaro and found where his personalfishing effects are to be housed. Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum Association1240 North Mountain RoadHarrisburg, PA 171121-717-541-0622 The Museum Web site is: http://www.paflyfishing.org/ The web page about the collection:http://www.paflyfishing.org/new_page_5.htm Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Apr 3 16:17:02 2001 f33LH0S15704 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Payne Parabolic Hi List,noticed a 7'6" Payne Parabolic on eBay, anyone happens to have this taper? regards danny from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 16:47:04 2001 f33Ll3S17255 2001 14:46:53 PDT Subject: Re: parallel universe toools canbe out of cal from each other also. you haveto decide which tool is going to have the final sayand adjust everthing else to that. it is also helpfulto develop a standard and return to it often. timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:Mike,I've been using a Waara v-block on and off for acoupleof years. One thing I've learned is that it is lessthan equilaterals. Guess I'm saying that just becauseall threesides measure equal with the v-block, that doesn'tmean theyare equal.Do some measuring without the v-block. Thatmight bethe source of your measuring errors. Be completelysurethat each strip at each station is completelyequilateral.Otherwise, you'll have skewed numbers and quitelikely, uglyglue lines. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool. But ithas somelimitations for which we must account. Harry mike canazon wrote: i ordered a waara v-block and a dialindicator. iwent to chris bogart's site and got instruction onusingdrill rods to accurately set the forms. eachsystem seemsto work indepently of the other. i get differentreadingswith each system. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from bconner@mediaone.net Tue Apr 3 16:57:47 2001 f33LvkS17888; Subject: Springtime Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 3 17:02:50 2001 f33M2iS18249 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson 8015 Special Check this out for nice sample of Dickerson's work. I drooled profusely butit'scurrently at $3000 American/ appx.$5000 Canadian!!!!!Ouch! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1130143145enjoy,Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 3 17:05:53 2001 f33M5dS18670; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:04:53 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Springtime Bruce,I had a family of robin's build a very comfy nest under my deck. Thelining was from my bamboo shavings(when it is nice I sometimes work up onmy deckwith my girls). I did my heart good!Thought of making a dog bed out of it too once! Shawn Bruce Conner wrote: Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Apr 3 17:08:54 2001 f33M8sS19038 Subject: a wierd comment OK from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Apr 3 17:10:23 2001 f33MANS19235; Subject: Re: Springtime In a message dated 4/3/01 5:06:41 PM Central Daylight Time, nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: Well, ther is the thought that I have a few birdfeedeers in my yard, and a couple of bird baths, and my cats like to play with the shavings!mark "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and swill beer the rest of his life." ~ JVG from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Apr 3 17:19:37 2001 f33MJMS19811 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:18:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Springtime f33MJaS19831 Good idea. My neighbor is a florist and uses my shavings as a base for giftbaskets and filler for certain arrangements. Better than throwing it in thetrash. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Bruce Conner 04/03/01 02:57PM >>>Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Apr 3 17:28:21 2001 f33MSJS20265 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:28:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Springtime That would be a neat use. I love the smell of the shavings. Why not match them with flowers. At 03:18 PM 4/3/2001 -0700, Christopher McDowell wrote:Good idea. My neighbor is a florist and uses my shavings as a base for gift baskets and filler for certain arrangements. Better than throwing it in the trash. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Bruce Conner 04/03/01 02:57PM >>>Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from johnsabina@home.com Tue Apr 3 19:00:03 2001 f34003S23137 ;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:59:59 -0700 Subject: Re: parallel universe Mike: You can get the wrong answer with a micrometer. The reading is =sensitive to the amount of pressure that you use to tighten the barrel. =You must make a conscious effort to put the same light tension on the =barrel each time. This is why some mics have a small diameter stem on =the barrel end. This small barrel has a light slip clutch to prevent =you from over tightening the barrel. But the mic also has to be square =with the surface to be measured. Compressibility of the material being =measured can introduce variation as well. Try taking something hard =(steel) with a two ground, parallel surfaces like a gage block or =engineering square and measure its thickness with both a mic and your =caliper. It might take a few tries to teach yourself the techniques. =Then move on to the tougher problem of measuring the depth of a 60 =degree groove. Good luck. JJS Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:50 AMSubject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that =i don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied =history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to =my problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris =bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set =the forms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get = i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to =be more accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean =i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it =is as though i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight =zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss =feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike Mike: You can get the wrong answer with a = reading is sensitive to the amount of pressure that you use to tighten = luck. JJS ----- Original Message ----- canazon Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 = AMSubject: parallel =universe list, = come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has = of in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal = compared to my problem. = a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on = drill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to work = of the other. i get different readings with each system. rods (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), = can the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i = of a mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt = hole.. upstairs? mike from DragonflyMAE@aol.com Tue Apr 3 20:00:41 2001 f3410eS24387 Subject: (no subject) Am I doing something wrong? I'm new to this computer so it's probably mebut I'm having a real hard time getting Powerfibers.com. It comes up but takes forever and just seems to stick ther and not move. I can't go forward and I can't get out. Could someone anyone please steer me in the right direction. I'm tring to work out Mr. Nunlys method of hand splitting.Thanks againMatthew Am I doing something but takes forward and I me in the right splitting. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 3 21:37:05 2001 f342b3S26443 Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Judging on what I've heard and read in catalogues the spike is used a bitin UK and Europe when corse fishing. Not that it's important but sayingthis does allow me to add that Bob should stay well clear of anything evenhinting at looking like a bayonet. At 11:25 AM 4/3/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your rod downand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt, etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way the lastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objects protruding from my rod! Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Apr 3 22:07:14 2001 f3437DS27249 Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod The spike was pretty common on early British rods. When not in use it isstored in the grip and removed and reversed when needed.I met Vince Marinaro at the Canadian Fly Fishing Forum about 22 years agoand had an opportunity to talk about bamboo rods and show him one of mine beyond what is in his book. I did learn that he prefered rabbit glue toglue up the sections and liked contorted willow for reel seats. Someone atthe Forum had just pruned the Contorted willow in their garden and Vincewent home with a bundle of it under his arm.----------From: Tony Young Cc: rcolo@ix.netcom.com; dmanders@telusplanet.net;rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: Re: More on Marinaro RodDate: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:38 PM Judging on what I've heard and read in catalogues the spike is used a bitin UK and Europe when corse fishing. Not that it's important but sayingthis does allow me to add that Bob should stay well clear of anythingevenhinting at looking like a bayonet. At 11:25 AM 4/3/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your roddownand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt,etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way thelastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objectsprotruding from my rod! Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Apr 3 22:25:06 2001 f343P5S27809 Subject: Re: (no subject) In a message dated 04/03/2001 9:01:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DragonflyMAE@aol.com writes: Matthew,Once you get into the Power fibers, it takesquite a while for the whole thing to load up into your computer.You just have to wait until it's all loaded. Then you can view itor print it, which ever you want to do. Be patient. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from miangler@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 00:05:54 2001 f3455rS29379 2001 22:05:55 PDT Subject: PHY on ebay! Don't mean to sound rude, but the skepticism beingpoured out on this guys rod is unfounded! He shouldbe taken at his word, after all, his uncle was aprofessional fly fisherman... lol, if only! =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from miangler@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 00:08:49 2001 f3458mS29582 2001 22:08:49 PDT Subject: fly reels? I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Apr 4 00:22:09 2001 f345M8S00139 f345M2069550; Subject: Re: parallel universe Mike I'd blame Tony Young for all this. He seems to have wakened the =Mathematical Kraken with all his blasted X-Files theorising! Remember, you don't actually need all this accuracy stuff. There are =only three necessary rod diameter measurement parameters - (a) Thin, =which is up the pointy end ; (b) Thick, down toward the person, usually =; and (c) Medium, which is the bit in between, mostly. Just hang on to those basics and you'll be OK; don't worry about all =this Greenie Yuppie Hippy mathematical table stuff! Peter Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:50 AMSubject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that =i don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied =history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to =my problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris =bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set =the forms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get = i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to =be more accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean =i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it =is as though i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight =zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss =feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike Mike I'd blame Tony Young for all this. He = theorising! Remember, you don't accuracy stuff. There are only three necessary rod = mostly. Just hang on to those basics and you'll= stuff! Peter ----- Original Message ----- canazon Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001= AMSubject: parallel =universe list, = come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has = of in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal = compared to my problem. = a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on = drill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to work = of the other. i get different readings with each system. rods (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), = can the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i = of a mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt = hole.. upstairs? mike from channer@frontier.net Wed Apr 4 00:24:14 2001 f345OES00435 Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike, I have a J.Ryall and like it a lot. Have a San Miguel,too and it's verynice, but before I die, I'm gonna get me a Peerless!John Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 4 02:08:16 2001 f3478ES01979 Subject: Re: parallel universe Steady on there Peter, I was infering there are so many variables that takeplace in the casting that super accuracy at each point was not really assignificant as it would seem "obvious". Of course, I could be wrong too.You are right though. Aim for accuracy and you'll get a decent fishing rod.Themore you make the more accurate they'll become. Tony At 04:21 PM 4/4/01 +1000, Peter McKean wrote: Mike I'd blame Tony Young for all this. He seems to have wakened theMathematicalKraken with all his blasted X-Files theorising! Remember, you don't actually need all this accuracy stuff. There are onlythree necessary rod diameter measurement parameters - (a) Thin, whichis upthe pointy end ; (b) Thick, down toward the person, usually ; and (c)Medium,which is the bit in between, mostly. Just hang on to those basics and you'll be OK; don't worry about all thisGreenie Yuppie Hippy mathematical table stuff! Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: mike canazon Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:50 AM Subject: parallel universe list, while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that idon't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history ofthe rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to myproblem. i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chrisbogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set theforms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i getdifferentreadings with each system. i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to bemore accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean iamoff by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it is asthough i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight zone,whereeinstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss featheryequationsthat have the mass of a black hole.. should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Apr 4 02:59:41 2001 f347xeS02607 Subject: Sv: More on Marinaro Rod f347xeS02608 The spike in the handle is an old Hardy invention.I've seen it on many of their rods. regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your rod downand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt, etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way the lastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objects protruding from my rod! Bob -----Original Message-----From: rcolo rodmakers@mail.wustL.edu Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 11:02 AMSubject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Folks,I was at a fly shop on Sunday and there were two flyfishers there thatfished with Marinaro. They said in passing that the rod he liked to fishwith had a metal spike that slid from the handle that he would stick in theground when not fishing. I found that quite interesting. Rich-----Original Message-----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 1:09 PMSubject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reelfoot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + thehandleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got tounder4 ozs. catch ya' Don from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Apr 4 04:40:57 2001 f349evS03849 Subject: a joke, Ok, so this is not a joke list, or it isn't supposed to be, but I laughed at this, and woke my wife up. She was a bit upset. My braying at 4 am is not a good way to wake up!mark Fishing With Baby Sister------------------------A boy was taking care of his baby sister while his parents went to town shopping. He decided to go fishing and he had to take her along. "I'll never do that again!" he told his mother that evening. "I didn't catch a thing!" "Oh, next time I'm sure she'll be quiet and not scare the fish away," his mother said. The boy said, "It wasn't that. She ate all the bait." "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and swill beer the rest of his life." ~ JVG from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 4 05:41:10 2001 f34Af9S04608 f34Af6Ud018871;Wed, 4 Apr 2001 05:41:06 -0500 Subject: Re: a wierd comment Don't mess up a great way to enjoy working with your hands, by making abusiness out of it ! I speak with some knowledge from ruining modeling as ahobby ! GMA from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Apr 4 06:54:30 2001 f34BsSS05336 f34BsQ041810; Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod The( reversible) spike was a not uncommon feature on English rods. Itdisappeared into the reel seat when not being used. The TLW's had themavailable for many years. If Marinaro was really concerned about weight, I would have thought that thelast thing he would be incorporating into his rods would be a metal spikeand housing. One could assume safely, of course, that Marinaro had more rods than justone. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Judging on what I've heard and read in catalogues the spike is used a bitin UK and Europe when corse fishing. Not that it's important but sayingthis does allow me to add that Bob should stay well clear of anything evenhinting at looking like a bayonet. At 11:25 AM 4/3/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your roddownand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt,etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way thelastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objectsprotruding from my rod! Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 4 08:25:52 2001 f34DPkS07197 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike I think you should definitely get some of these new fantastic flyreels, now concerning your old Hardy's...........lol, Rich P.S.Hold on to those Hardy's Mike! Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Apr 4 08:35:16 2001 f34DZFS07841 Subject: Re: Payne Parabolic Danny.I have the tapers for the Payne parabolic rods 7'1", 7'6", 7'9" both heavy and lite wtgs. My favorite is the 7'6" model in 4 wtg. E-Mail me at baconrod@gsmrinc.comBest Hal Bacon from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 4 09:41:38 2001 f34EfbS10937 Subject: re: parallel universe, now -60* point! i want to thank everyone for their input on the above matter. this =is like having a flight for life chopper parked in the yard. the patient =is doing well and planing away!a big part of my problem was not measuring accurately. then i took =the v-block for gospel, and when the readings i got there didn't agree =with the others, and it was not even consistent with itself (because of =poor angles), i headed upstairs for some aspirin and the rodmakers =list.on the way, i picked up planing form #66. i read bokstrom's article =on measuring strips a few times. on the bottom of the page i saw the = i had dropped my indicator saturday nite and broke the point, =leaving the threaded part in the indicator, and me with one less tool to =foul me up. in issue #66, bokstrom says to take your point out of the =indicator and set it to zero. i used a drill rod to set my forms and =v-block. then plane the strips, using the flat indicator as the depth =gage. as you are planing, the reading will steadily decrease and when it =reaches zero you are done. i did not have to take it out and measure in =the v-block every couple of passes, i just dropped the indicator on the =strip.i've got an extra 60* point if anyone needs it. still ridin' the bus mike all, the above matter. this is like having a flight for life chopper parked = yard. the patient is doing well and planing away! measuring accurately. then i took the v-block for gospel, and when the = with itself (because of poor angles), i headed upstairs for some = the rodmakers list. indicator = nite and broke the point, leaving the threaded part in the indicator, = with one less tool to foul me up. in issue #66, bokstrom says to take = and v-block. then plane the strips, using the flat indicator as the = decrease and when it reaches zero you are done. i did not have to take = and measure in the v-block every couple of passes, i just dropped the = on the strip. it. mike from carinad@netactive.co.za Wed Apr 4 10:03:57 2001 f34F3uS12197 (SAT) Subject: Impregnated rods I have, with the help of some of you guys, now built five fairly =succesfull bamboo rods, the latest being a very fast actioned 3 weight =on one of Frank Neunemann's tapers. It easily casts up to a 6 weight =line, yet it is a dream with 3 and 4 weight lines. Anyway, I do not have facilities fior dipping my rods, so I have =experimented with a variety of finishes. The best so far was Birwood =Casey's Tru Oil applied with a lint free cloth. I wonder if anyone else =has tried it? I would now like to try building an impregnated rod. Can =anyone give advice on the process and materials required for =impregnating a bamboo blank? Thank you, I have, with the help of some of you = built five fairly succesfull bamboo rods, the latest being a very fast = 3 weight on one of Frank Neunemann's tapers. It easily casts up to a 6 = line, yet it is a dream with 3 and 4 weight lines. Anyway, I do not have facilities fior = rods, so I have experimented with a variety of finishes. The best so far = Birwood Casey's Tru Oil applied with a lint free cloth. I wonder if = anyone give advice on the process and materials required for = bamboo blank? Thank you, Dirk = from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Apr 4 10:08:03 2001 f34F82S12644 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: And even some more on Marinaro Rod Guys/Gals, Several have written that perhaps the rod was built hollow. A caption on aphoto from page 49 says: "Soft pith, hard fiber, and good craftsmanshipcombined to create a miracle of strength and brilliant action in the modernspilt- bamboo fly rod."The above quote suggests that the rod was not hollow built.But another thing occurred to me - have heard or read that somemanufacturers of rods in their printed catalogues used the raw blank weightto describe the rod weight. Maybe this is what Marinaro meant. It wouldcertainly explain the conundrum of the length vs weight thing. catch ya' Don from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 4 10:15:28 2001 f34FFRS13181 Subject: parallel universe troy,i should have went into more detail but i was worried about =bandwidth. and there really aren't any stupid questions. i could give =you a list of the ones i was afraid to post, but i'm still new to this =myself and too ashamed to mention them yet..anyway, once the form is set properly and your indicator ( - 60* =pt., just using the stem) is set to zero, begin planing. place the =indicator on top of the strip. say it reads .012. flip the strip, plane. =drop the indicator on the strip. it now reads .009. measure all your =stations like this. you don't have to handle those fragile strips so = keep going til you reach zero. your strip is ready to go. just make =sure your angles are good as you go. still on the bus mike troy, was worried about bandwidth. and there really aren't any stupid = could give you a list of the ones i was afraid to post, but i'm still = this myself and too ashamed to mention them yet.. once = set properly and your indicator ( - 60* pt., just using the stem) is set = zero, begin planing. place the indicator on top of the strip. say it = flip the strip, plane. drop the indicator on the strip. it now reads = measure all your stations like this. you don't have to handle those = strips so much ( i broke my first tip last nite). go. mike from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 10:24:25 2001 f34FOPS13665 Apr 2001 08:24:22 PDT Subject: Ferrule Glue I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Apr 4 10:24:33 2001 f34FOXS13674 Subject: Re: fly reels? MikeI know I'm gonna get razzed for this one but,I like the Orvis CFO spring and pawl reels.They were designed by Hardy. And I think valueverses dollar they are a good workhorse. Yethave enough finesse for cane rods. They are light,machined from bar stock,and have a smooth drag.They look classic to me. Tony Miller MikeI know I'm gonna get razzed for this = but, reels.They were designed by Hardy. valueverses dollar they are a good = Yethave enough finesse for cane rods.They = light,machined from bar stock,and have a = drag.They look classic to me. = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 4 10:33:13 2001 f34FXCS14449 Subject: re: parallel universe troy,again, the fault is mine. i have a slotted indicator base. it sits =on the form, not the strip. i can slide it from station to station, = mike troy, i have a slotted indicator base. it sits on the form, not the strip. i = it from station to station, check them all now with out picking up the = mike from rextutor@about.com Wed Apr 4 11:18:36 2001 f34GIaS16485 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 09:17:55 -0700 Subject: instruction on using drill rods Where is chris bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to set measurement tools to zero ? By drill rods is that a drill bit ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Apr 4 12:30:44 2001 f34HUgS19754 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:29:56 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike,I have Hardy Bougle' for my larger (4-5wt rods) and a small Teton forthesmaller ones. Both are reasonably priced and do trout fine.I wouldn't partwitheither even though the Teton has a way better drag than I will probably everneed ontrout.I would agree with Tony that for the price the CFO's are a good deal,ifyouhave the bucks a Bill Ballan is nice, I think Danny Twang has a friend that isbuilding a pretty sharp reel for a decent price as well. Pfleugers(not thegross low end model) they are workhorses and are timeless.There are dozens of reels out there both inexpensive and overpricedthat Iwould love to have, it's all a matter of personal taste and wallet/credit cardlimit;^PShawn Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Apr 4 13:18:39 2001 f34IIcS21474 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 11:16:50 -0700 Subject: RE: Fly Reels f34IIdS21475 I like the classic style reels, and they look great and balance well on bamboorods. I like a smooth, quiet click drag. My Hardy Marquiz looks nice, but isvery light in weight and loud when stripping line. I know, I can turn the dragoff, but I just like the smooth buzz and stability of the typical classic stylereel. Bill Ballan, W.E. Adams, Bellinger-Sarcione, Peerless, Bacon etc. I can'tafford to own all of these, but they sure are pretty. Are the J. Ryall reels classic style? from oossg@vbe.com Wed Apr 4 13:19:54 2001 f34IJrS21650 Organization: Oshkosh Office Systems Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bill,I have used ferrule cement for years, it is a heat sensitive glue thatmakes removal of worn and damaged tiptops and ferrules a breeze.You can get it from a variety of sources, I got my last tube from Russat Goldenwitch. No connection, blah blah blah.Scott Bill Walters wrote: I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Apr 4 13:33:28 2001 f34IXRS22625 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Ferrule Glue Ferrule glue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue and it is still made byFlexcoat and Gudebrod and can be found at www.vfish.net/store1.htm look under supplies I've found that 5 minute epoxy also releases with heat when used onferrules. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrule Glue I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 4 13:42:23 2001 f34IgIS23193 ;Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:42:14 +0000 Subject: Re: (no subject) find that you have to be very patient because it takes quite some time = forthe information to download. time for the information to download. Jack JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 4 13:56:06 2001 Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net ;Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:56:01 +0000 Message-ID:From: "Jacques Subject: Re:Ferrule Glue Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:56:48 -0400 Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu They used good old fashioned Ferrule Cement andprobably got it from Herters. Jack > from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Apr 414:46:52 2001 Received: from slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net uid 0); 4 Apr 2001 19:46:43 -0000 Received: fromunknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (63.228.199.15) by slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net miangler@yahoo.com, " " User-Agent:Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: fly owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu have a J. Ryall that I bought several years ago afterordering some at the Denver Fly Tackle Dealer show. Jim Ryall sold me onthem when he chucked one at the concrete floor. When Iretrieved it, it didn't have a scratch on it. So, I ordered some for the shop Iwas working for and bought one for myself. I have used ithard for four seasons and it doesn't show a sign of wear. It's a great reel.However, I have been wondering if maybe one of theMarryat reels might go nicely with a cane rod. I had a few that never sold andat the time I thought they were kind of fragile, with aheinously complicated drag. Anyway, they are really light, work efficiently,and sound REALLY smooth. So, I guess my opinion onthem has changed. There is also a bronze model that would look really nicewith a flamed rod, not that that's important or anything... miangler@yahoo.com > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:08:49 know this is off the rod making subject, but I was >wondering what some of you guys think a suitable > MODERN fly reel make is Ryall reels, but fish with > old Hardys. > > Mike > > ===== >http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html > >__________________________________________________ > Do YouYahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo!Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > from bmaulucci@adelphia.netWed Apr 4 15:23:45 2001 Received: from Apr 2001 16:23:27 -0400 Message-Id:X-Sender: bmaulucci@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu From: Bob Maulucci Subject: Reels owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have a HardyBougle IV, and it is great except that changes spools is a pain in the buttsection. It does balance nicely on a 7-8" cane rod. I also havea Ross Colorado that is nice for the money. Looks rather Hardy like. I mustadmit that the new Bacon reels, the Adams, the Ballans,the Saraciones, and the Peerless have always looked right on cane. I wouldlike to get one of those, but the Hardy is nice, I don'tknow. Of the above reels, which ones are the easies