from miangler@yahoo.com Sun Apr 1 00:20:17 2001 f316KGS05074 2001 22:20:17 PST Subject: problem with roughing forms Well, the only thing holding me back now is getting aroughing form. Munro is on backorder, Bootstrap hasnever once gotten back to me and they have a 6 weekwaiting period, Goldenwitch makes two separate formsto do what one from anyone else does, and I have noaccess to the tools necessary to make my own. Doesanyone know of another source for roughing forms? Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Apr 1 05:08:44 2001 f31A8gS07748 f31A8a032162; Subject: Re: problem with roughing forms Mike At the risk of seeming simplistic here, make them! Half a dozen wood screws, a 50 cent protractor, two short bits of hardwood,and about half an hour of your time is all. Oh, and you'll need to have adrill, a blockplane, and a screwdriver. I am widely known to be as useless as tits on a bull in the workshop, and Imade mine easily; and they work really well. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: problem with roughing forms Well, the only thing holding me back now is getting aroughing form. Munro is on backorder, Bootstrap hasnever once gotten back to me and they have a 6 weekwaiting period, Goldenwitch makes two separate formsto do what one from anyone else does, and I have noaccess to the tools necessary to make my own. Doesanyone know of another source for roughing forms? Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Apr 1 06:31:42 2001 f31BVfS08860 Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:31:40 +0100 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: problem with roughing forms I'll not only second that but after a few rods you will probably neverhave need for a roughing former......they are just not necessary !Paul Peter McKean wrote: Mike At the risk of seeming simplistic here, make them! Half a dozen wood screws, a 50 cent protractor, two short bits ofhardwood,and about half an hour of your time is all. Oh, and you'll need to have adrill, a blockplane, and a screwdriver. I am widely known to be as useless as tits on a bull in the workshop, and Imade mine easily; and they work really well. Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Janik" Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 4:20 PMSubject: problem with roughing forms Well, the only thing holding me back now is getting aroughing form. Munro is on backorder, Bootstrap hasnever once gotten back to me and they have a 6 weekwaiting period, Goldenwitch makes two separate formsto do what one from anyone else does, and I have noaccess to the tools necessary to make my own. Doesanyone know of another source for roughing forms? Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text from bydesign@cfw.com Sun Apr 1 09:47:17 2001 f31ElFS11344 Subject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. =Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear =finished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get =it totally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat =better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match = Thanks,Rich Young I am in the middle of wrapping the = nearly completed rod. Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer = with somewhat better results, but still not completely clear. I use the = = Thanks,RichYoung from Kesty25@aol.com Sun Apr 1 10:17:01 2001 f31FH0S11954 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Please remove me from the list, Thankyou Please remove me fromthe list, Thankyou from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 1 10:20:31 2001 f31FKUS12179 Subject: Re: problem with roughing forms In a message dated 4/1/1 6:20:48 AM, miangler@yahoo.com writes: Mike - The only thing rough planing is about is establishing the 60* angle. You don't need anything fancy. Get someone with a router to run a couple "V" grooves of different depths in a piece of hardwood. That is all I have ever used. The 60*-30* initial form described in Garrison is more trouble than it is worth. Just use a 60* groove, and flip the strip every two passes. You will soon be making the right angles. My rough form is 30" long, and 1/1/2" square. It is held in my bench vise. The strips slide up and down the length. One side has a groove a bit deeper than .250, the other is about .187. from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Sun Apr 1 12:47:53 2001 f31HlqS14204 f31Hlp1109986;Sun, 1 Apr 2001 13:47:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear RichI have not had good luck thining varnish for wraps, I use Man =O War spar varnish, Small amount in baby food jar set it in a pan of hot =water tell it warms up, put enough varnish on to really soak silk well, = Good Luck Tony Larson Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:48 AMSubject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. =Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear =finished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get =it totally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat =better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match = Thanks,Rich Young Rich had good luck thining varnish for wraps, I use Man O War spar varnish, = amount in baby food jar set it in a pan of hot water tell it warms up, = ----- Original Message ----- Beth =Young Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 = AMSubject: Getting wraps =clear I am in the middle of wrapping the = nearly completed rod. Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer = Waterlox with somewhat better results, but still not completely clear. = Thanks,Rich =Young from darrell@rockclimbing.org Sun Apr 1 13:57:41 2001 f31IveS15453 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Getting wraps clear Try a different brand of silk. Darrellwww.vfish.net-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 7:49 AM Subject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. Onlythis time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear finishedappearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get it totallyclear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat betterresults, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end method toapply the finish. What am I doing wrong? Thanks,Rich Young different brand of silk. Darrellwww.vfish.net YoungSent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 7:49 clearI am in the middle of wrapping the = nearly completed rod. Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer = Waterlox with somewhat better results, but still not completely clear. = Thanks,Rich =Young from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Apr 1 14:38:38 2001 f31JccS16365 Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear --------------D0BA3E99B637D2AC5FAED52C Hi Rich, You should wash your hands very well before a wrapping session.The oils from a persons hand fouls the white silk. First coat of varnishthin 50%. Marty Beth Young wrote: I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod.Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clearfinished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn'tget it totally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox withsomewhat better results, but still not completely clear. I use thepaper match end method to apply the finish. What am I doingwrong? Thanks,Rich Young --------------D0BA3E99B637D2AC5FAED52C Hi Rich, You should wash your hands very well before a wrapping session.The oils from a persons hand fouls the white silk. First coat of varnishthin 50%. MartyBeth Young wrote: Iam in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. Onlythis time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear finished better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end Young --------------D0BA3E99B637D2AC5FAED52C-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Apr 1 16:17:11 2001 f31LHAS18091 Subject: Re: Clean hands --------------5779A817BCD612A9179A7713 Hi Chris, No I don't think so. I think the bubbles are caused from poorfinish penetration from to thick first coat. Best, Marty Raine Family wrote: Hi Marty,Does the oil from ones hands increase the surface tension?Is this the cause of the small bubbles at the base of thewraps?TIA,Chris -----Original Message-----From: none rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 12:42 PMSubject: Re: Getting wraps clearHi Rich, You should wash your hands very well before awrapping session. The oils from a persons hand fouls thewhite silk. First coat of varnish thin 50%. Marty Beth Young wrote: I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearlycompleted rod. Only this time I amy playing with whitegossamer silk to obtain clear finished appearance.Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get ittotally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterloxwith somewhat better results, but still not completelyclear. I use the paper match end method to apply thefinish. What am I doing wrong? Thanks,Rich Young --------------5779A817BCD612A9179A7713 poor finish penetration from to thick first coat. Best, MartyRaine Family wrote: cause of the small bubbles at the base of the wraps?TIA,Chris----- OriginalMessage-----From: none <horsesho@ptd.net> <bydesign@cfw.com>; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu<rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Sunday, April 01, 200112:42 PMSubject: Re: Getting wrapsclear session. The oils from a persons hand fouls the white silk. First coatof varnish thin 50%. MartyBeth Young wrote: Iam in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod. Onlythis time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clear finished better results, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end Thanks,RichYoung --------------5779A817BCD612A9179A7713-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Apr 1 16:39:50 2001 f31LdmS18563 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I'm using sligthly heated, unthinned Epifanes Spar varnish on PearsallsGossamer and getsglass clear wraps. Start applying at the guide feet, and make sure thevarnish soak well inn... regardsdanny Re: Getting wraps clear I'm using sligthly heated, unthinned Epifanes Spar varnish on Pearsalls Gos=samer and getsglass clear wraps. Start applying at the guide feet, and make sure the varn=ish soak well inn... regardsdanny from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Apr 1 18:12:07 2001 f31NC6S20048 Subject: Comeback To the List,Does any one else have a problem with comeback, that is the return ofcurves etc after heat straightening? Any solutions, explanations, help? Bill from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 1 18:57:35 2001 f31NvYS20819 Subject: Re: Comeback Bill;Sometimes I have this problem, usually because I have not really heatedand straightened the area enough, but just cold straightened it bybending. The second or third attempt seems to get it. Usually this onlyhappens on butt sections where the heat doesn't get all the way into therod. After scorching a few, I try to err on the not enough side, I canalways try again.John Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Does any one else have a problem with comeback, that is the return ofcurves etc after heat straightening? Any solutions, explanations, help? Bill from oakmere@carol.net Sun Apr 1 19:25:18 2001 f320PIS21472 Subject: RE: April Power Fibers Hi Bob: You did it again. The issue looks great. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutbeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from caneman@clnk.com Sun Apr 1 22:04:09 2001 f32349S24181 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Getting wraps clear Rich,Don't know. I just finished a rod with clear wraps and did them with30% thinned ManOWar Spar Varnish (not poly) for the first two coats, thenpoly over that and they came out clear as glass. Matter of fact at theSowbug Roundup this weekend, had a guy ask if I wrapped the rod withMono??? bob -----Original Message-----From: Beth Young Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:47 AMSubject: Getting wraps clear I am in the middle of wrapping the guides on a nearly completed rod.Only this time I amy playing with white gossamer silk to obtain clearfinished appearance. Started out with thinned varnish and couldn't get ittotally clear. Now I have switched to thinned Waterlox with somewhat betterresults, but still not completely clear. I use the paper match end method toapply the finish. What am I doing wrong? Thanks,Rich Young from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 1 22:27:20 2001 f323RIS24827 Subject: Another virus. Snow White I'm at work trying to look like I'm being productive so I haven't had timeto check any recent email to see if this came from the list or is just spambut I just received a meaasge containing "HAHAHA Snow White - JOKE" Thereare several variations of the title but you'll get the point if you see it. The contents is some BS about Snow turning 18 and an attachment calledJOKE.EXE Presumably there is supposed to be something relating to Snow and7 little guys celibrating, prob a sight gag :-) but to click it is to beinfected with a worm. This is a real worm type virus and not a hoax though apparently a low levelvirus. It's also thought to be not as virulent as others as it looks as ifthe author is using spam software to do his own distribution possibly thetitle is a bit of a give away and people aren't falling for it it's justnot as effective as others. Have to go now and see if any of these teen age kids with their hormonalimballances here have already tried it. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from martinj@aa.net Sun Apr 1 23:18:47 2001 f324IjS25964 Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:18:43 -0700 Subject: RE: Another virus. Snow White This is an old virus. Any current virus software will pick this up and sincewe are "all" (by now) using current virus software of some kind (TIC) therewill be no problem... Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Another virus. Snow White I'm at work trying to look like I'm being productive so I haven't had timeto check any recent email to see if this came from the list or is just spambut I just received a meaasge containing "HAHAHA Snow White - JOKE" Thereare several variations of the title but you'll get the point if you see it. The contents is some BS about Snow turning 18 and an attachment calledJOKE.EXE Presumably there is supposed to be something relating to Snow and7 little guys celibrating, prob a sight gag :-) but to click it is to beinfected with a worm. This is a real worm type virus and not a hoax though apparently a low levelvirus. It's also thought to be not as virulent as others as it looks as ifthe author is using spam software to do his own distribution possibly thetitle is a bit of a give away and people aren't falling for it it's justnot as effective as others. Have to go now and see if any of these teen age kids with their hormonalimballances here have already tried it. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from Bamboomaker@aol.com Sun Apr 1 23:33:42 2001 f324XfS26364 Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? Full-name: Bamboomaker Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found it interesting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks with Gorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt spline that I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out the apex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths of outside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gather about 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram per spline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. I presume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effects of hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow building is related to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose that fluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any special properties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 00:11:49 2001 f325BnS27221 WAA24478 Subject: Big Day Today I tried the scary sharp method and it definitly lives up to its name. =Munro Rod Co. still has not sent me my hock blade and has not responded =to my emails. I decided to take the advice of others and use my stock =blade. The blade now has a mirror finish and shaves hair easily. I also =finished my garrison binder. It works like a charm and only cost a total =of $10 to build. I also put the finishing touches on my splice block for =nodeless. I can clamp it in a vise and add and remove strips at ease =with no tools and without touching the vise. Right now I am running a =test on gorilla glue and titebond II and their relative strengths in =splices.My next project is a finishing tube ala "hayashida". What ever happend =to Daryl? Adam Vigil definitly lives up to its name. Munro Rod Co. still has not sent me my = blade and has not responded to my emails. I decided to take the advice = and use my stock blade. The blade now has a mirror finish and shaves = easily. I also finished my garrison binder. It works like a charm and = a total of $10 to build. I also put the finishing touches on my splice = nodeless. I can clamp it in a vise and add and remove strips at ease = splices.My next project is a finishing tube ala = "hayashida". What ever happend to Daryl? AdamVigil from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Apr 2 08:44:26 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f32DiKS04100 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth the time? Mark -- Thanks for doing this, it's very useful. For those not into grams, 6 gramsis about 1/5th oz. So even a much heavier taper wouldn't result in muchweight savings. And it's worth noting that mass near the grip has lesseffect than mass further out toward the tip. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found it interesting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks with Gorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt spline that I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out the apex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths of outside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gather about 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram per spline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. I presume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effects of hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow buildingis related to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose that fluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any special properties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from parataper@hotmail.com Mon Apr 2 09:01:43 2001 f32E1gS04946 Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:01:38 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:01:38 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it w orth thetime? FILETIME=[6FC7B900:01C0BB7D] Psychologically, 1/5th oz. can be a lot. It's the differance between a 4.1 oz. rod, and a 3.9 oz. rod. MP From: "Kling, Barry W." rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it w orth the time?Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 08:44:02 - 0500 Mark -- Thanks for doing this, it's very useful. For those not into grams, 6 gramsis about 1/5th oz. So even a much heavier taper wouldn't result in muchweight savings. And it's worth noting that mass near the grip has lesseffect than mass further out toward the tip. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found itinteresting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks with Gorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt spline that I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out the apex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths ofoutside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gatherabout 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram perspline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. Ipresume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effectsof hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow buildingisrelated to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose thatfluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any specialproperties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Apr 2 09:06:55 2001 f32E6tS05241 Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:06:53 -0700 Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth the time? Mark,A little experiential reflection. I built a 8.5' 9 weight last summer. Beforescalloped hollow building the butt and mid sections, the rod weighed 7.5ounces.Before glue. Before Guides. Before varnish. After hollowing, adding glue, guides, varnish -- the rod weighs 6.2 ounces. Is it worth it? I think so... Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effectsof hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollow building isrelated to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose thatfluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 2 09:46:40 2001 f32EkdS07689 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? I have to concur with Harry on this. I built a 9' 9 wt rod, hollow built,that weighed 5.75 ounces... much less that the original non hollow builtthat weight almost 8 ounces. That 2 1/4 ounces on a big rod will definitelybe noticable at the end of a days fishing... that's like taping my 2 wt rodto the 9 wt and fishing it. Huge difference. Bob PS: Harry... Billie caught her biggest bow yet Friday Night... I haven'tseen her since we got back, she's running around town telling everyone aboutit! LOL For those that don't know Billie, she just started flyfishing inAugust last year, and caught a wild cut on her fifth cast... she then wentwithout catching a fish until February of this year... Up until Friday, herbiggest fish was a 14" bow, she nailed a nice 18"er on the Norfork Fridayevening, on a 6' 4 wt... it was hilarious just watching her face when sherealized she had a good fish on the end of that little rod!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Mark,A little experiential reflection. I built a 8.5' 9 weight last summer.Beforescalloped hollow building the butt and mid sections, the rod weighed 7.5ounces.Before glue. Before Guides. Before varnish. After hollowing, adding glue, guides, varnish -- the rod weighs 6.2ounces. Is it worth it? I think so... Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight savingeffectsof hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollowbuilding isrelated to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose thatfluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Apr 2 10:21:19 2001 f32FLIS09532 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- isit worth the time? Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 06:23:40 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Mark, Tried the hollow strip thing 4>5 years ago by building 2 rods from thesame culm alternating strips and finished the same way.Solid rod would cast marginally farther than hollowed out rod. Left sidewall @ 0.080" and solid under ferrules and guide feet. Tip hollowed out tothe 0.080" mark.I would think that the weight loss was not compensated by the performanceloss. catch ya' Don At 12:33 AM 4/2/01 EDT, you wrote: Return-path: From: Bamboomaker@aol.comFull-name: BamboomakerMessage- ID: Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:34:47 EDTSubject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is itworth the time? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 127 Friends, I was reading the PU foam thread and the hollow built ideas - found it interesting. About a year ago, I glued up around 5 rod blanks withGorilla Glue with great success - just because I ran out of epon transiently. Back to the subject. . . I had an extra 4' 5 wt hex rod butt splinethat I sacrificed to see how much weight one could save by hollowing out theapex. I split out the core apex portion, leaving only about 60 thousandths of outside powerfibers and collected the inner scraps. I was able to gather about 0.75 gram at best in bamboo. Even if one could gather 1 gram per spline - that would only amount to 6 grams per butt section or rod. I presume that one doesn't hollow the tips. I really can't see the justification for the presumed weight saving effects of hollow building cane rods. However, if the support for hollowbuilding is related to mechanics (physics), then please let me know. I suppose that fluting the spline may relate some additional strength/rigidity. Also, does the additional work to double build a blank yield any special properties above a normally planed blank? Just wanted to stir the pots some more. Warmest regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Apr 2 10:34:13 2001 f32FYCS10456 Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am sure sandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinking ofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my strips tofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair under thetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Apr 2 10:44:48 2001 f32FikS11367 Subject: Re: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worth thetime? Ah, the inquiring mind:Part of the rationale for building hollow rods or rods with inserts in themas I do, is simply to do something different from others. It also satisfiesthe curious who like to experiment just to see what happens. And then too,there's always the quest to find a way to improve the product. No doubt itincreases the time and energy it takes to build a rod but then for longerrods such as those 8 1/2 ft or longer it makes enough difference in theweight of the rod to make it worth while at the end of a day of casting. Onething is for sure, it certainly makes it difficult for anyone else toexactly duplicate your rod because the secrets are hidden inside.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: hollow-built - is it worth the weight? double built- is it worththe time? from martinj@aa.net Mon Apr 2 15:42:07 2001 f32Kg6S25279 Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:42:04 -0700 Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank A scraper works well for cleaning the glue off. I use the side edge of myoriginal Stanley plane blade that I've replaced with a Hock. Free hand held Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am sure sandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinking ofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my strips tofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair under thetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Apr 2 18:07:45 2001 f32N7iS03421 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. Marinaro says:page 52 - " For me, effective length is a very serious matter. In much ofmy meadow stream fishing, it is often necessary to kneel or even lie proneon one side to avoid spooking a nervous trout. A cast under thosecircumstance, especially a long one, needs a effective length that willhold the cast well above ground."page 54 - " I used to dream of a dry-fly rod - nine feet long, weighingunder four ounces"Page 54 - " I floundered about a great deal until I made the acquaintanceof the late Robert Crompton, a professional rod-builder from Saint Paul,Minnesota."Page 54 - "Crompton used to insist over and over again that no rod is fitto be a casting tool if it is made with a straight taper."Page 55 - "Convex tapers are not a new thing"Page 55 - " For many years I experimented a great deal with convex tapersand made some very good rods. But I was always obsessed with the idea ofgetting more length. I still wanted that nine footer".Page 59 - " The rod I wanted has the virtues of the dry-fly tip-action rodplus the durability of the parabolic and progressive tapers".Page 59 - " The butt joint of my projected nine-footer was no problem. Iwanted it stiff enough to confine the action in the upper regions. Iemployed, therefore, the full convex in sketch 2. The middle joint wheremost of the bend would take place needed a modified or delayed convex as insketch 3. The desired effect here was to soften and spread the bend over agreater area than the fragile tip-action dry-fly rod. The top joint neededrefinement for delicacy in short casts, plus some stiffening from theconvex design to prevent excessive fallover on the longer casts."Page 59 - " The top half of the top joint is the most critical area in anyrod. It is the part the delivers the final impulse or thrust thatdetermines the character of the cast."Page 60 - " Any one of the convex joints that I have designed and shown insketches 2,3 and 4 by itself, would not make a good rod. All of themtogether or in combination make a superb rod. That is that way I got mynine-foot dry-fly rod, weighing less than four ounces."And from page 41 - "Accordingly, I have designed all my trout rods to carryonly one weight of line, a 5 weight." OK, that's the way Marinaro described Heaven. The challenge was totranslate his words and sketches into a taper that reflected what hedescribed. from the sketches, tapers that I've made or cast, blind intuition or damnsilliness, I attempted to figure out just what the measurements of this rod.The sketches showed a distinct drop in taper near both ferrules. Further,the rate of change is 0.01435/5" of rod travel over the effective castinglength. This rate of change should be enough to support a rod of this length.With these thoughts in mind, I plotted a taper as follows:0 - 0.0715 - 0.07810 - 0.09715 - .11620 - .13225 - .14630 - .15635 - .16440 - .17445 - .18650 - .20055 - .21660 - .23465 - .25170 - .26175 - .26980 - .27985 - .29690 - 31395 - .330100 - .347105 - 364110 - .381 Now, the question I got for you folks - Is this a approximation of theMarinaro rod? catch ya' Don from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Apr 2 18:32:07 2001 f32NW6S04317 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:10 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank References: Hi, A babbet bearing hollow scraper works well. With 3 sides, slightlysharpened, there is less chance of digging into the blank. catch ya' Don At 01:42 PM 4/2/01 -0700, you wrote:A scraper works well for cleaning the glue off. I use the side edge of myoriginal Stanley plane blade that I've replaced with a Hock. Free hand held Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 8:37 AM Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am suresandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinking ofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my strips tofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair under thetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Mon Apr 2 18:38:01 2001 f32NbxS04577 ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:22:15 -0400 Subject: opening day Any one out there? Seems like some opening days like here in NY (yesterday) must have put the "Gone Fishing" sign on the list.Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Apr 2 19:13:40 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f330DdS05605 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don -- I don't know what Marinaro would think, but it looks a lot like aGranger/Phillipson taper, but with much less pronounced "humps" or concavesections. Very interesting. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. Marinaro says:page 52 - " For me, effective length is a very serious matter. In much ofmy meadow stream fishing, it is often necessary to kneel or even lie proneon one side to avoid spooking a nervous trout. A cast under thosecircumstance, especially a long one, needs a effective length that willhold the cast well above ground."page 54 - " I used to dream of a dry-fly rod - nine feet long, weighingunder four ounces"Page 54 - " I floundered about a great deal until I made the acquaintanceof the late Robert Crompton, a professional rod-builder from Saint Paul,Minnesota."Page 54 - "Crompton used to insist over and over again that no rod is fitto be a casting tool if it is made with a straight taper."Page 55 - "Convex tapers are not a new thing"Page 55 - " For many years I experimented a great deal with convex tapersand made some very good rods. But I was always obsessed with the idea ofgetting more length. I still wanted that nine footer".Page 59 - " The rod I wanted has the virtues of the dry-fly tip-action rodplus the durability of the parabolic and progressive tapers".Page 59 - " The butt joint of my projected nine-footer was no problem. Iwanted it stiff enough to confine the action in the upper regions. Iemployed, therefore, the full convex in sketch 2. The middle joint wheremost of the bend would take place needed a modified or delayed convex as insketch 3. The desired effect here was to soften and spread the bend over agreater area than the fragile tip-action dry-fly rod. The top joint neededrefinement for delicacy in short casts, plus some stiffening from theconvex design to prevent excessive fallover on the longer casts."Page 59 - " The top half of the top joint is the most critical area in anyrod. It is the part the delivers the final impulse or thrust thatdetermines the character of the cast."Page 60 - " Any one of the convex joints that I have designed and shown insketches 2,3 and 4 by itself, would not make a good rod. All of themtogether or in combination make a superb rod. That is that way I got mynine-foot dry-fly rod, weighing less than four ounces."And from page 41 - "Accordingly, I have designed all my trout rods to carryonly one weight of line, a 5 weight." OK, that's the way Marinaro described Heaven. The challenge was totranslate his words and sketches into a taper that reflected what hedescribed. from the sketches, tapers that I've made or cast, blind intuition or damnsilliness, I attempted to figure out just what the measurements of this rod.The sketches showed a distinct drop in taper near both ferrules. Further,the rate of change is 0.01435/5" of rod travel over the effective castinglength. This rate of change should be enough to support a rod of thislength.With these thoughts in mind, I plotted a taper as follows:0 - 0.0715 - 0.07810 - 0.09715 - .11620 - .13225 - .14630 - .15635 - .16440 - .17445 - .18650 - .20055 - .21660 - .23465 - .25170 - .26175 - .26980 - .27985 - .29690 - 31395 - .330100 - .347105 - 364110 - .381 Now, the question I got for you folks - Is this a approximation of theMarinaro rod? catch ya' Don from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Apr 2 19:13:50 2001 f330DnS05612 f330DFr27321;Mon, 2 Apr 2001 19:13:15 -0500 Subject: Re: "Degluing" the blank I wipe off as much excess glue as I can before it sets and use single edgerazorblades to scrap the hard stuff off.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:10 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank References: Hi, A babbet bearing hollow scraper works well. With 3 sides, slightlysharpened, there is less chance of digging into the blank. catch ya' Don At 01:42 PM 4/2/01 -0700, you wrote:A scraper works well for cleaning the glue off. I use the side edge of myoriginal Stanley plane blade that I've replaced with a Hock. Free hand held Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu jmpio@nhbm.comSent: Monday, April 02, 2001 8:37 AM Subject: "Degluing" the blank Well, thinks are going quite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed,glued, and now out of the string. It appears to be straight, gluing hasdefinitely turned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used ProbondPU glue, easy to use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am suresandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seems dangerous. I was thinkingofusing my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraper an effective tool forremoving dried glue and enamel? Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my stripstofinal dimension. Won't removing the enamel now put them a hair underthetarget dimension? How thick is enamel? And how much material getsremovedto get rid of the enamel? from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 2 19:21:36 2001 f330LZS06093 ;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:21:31 +0000 Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] You want to talk to Bill Harms, since he worked with Vince and learned someof Vince's tapers. Jack from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 2 19:28:55 2001 f330SsS06418 Subject: Re: "Degluing" the blank Russ Gooding of Golden Witch has them, but any good industrial supply storecarries them. Often called a deburring tool. I like to sharpen mine until theyare quite sharp, but the point is blunt so it does not act like a knife, butrather like a scraper. Ralph That is a plug for Russ but only because he is the only rob building supplierthat carries the tool (that I know about) Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:10 -0600 From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: RE: "Degluing" the blank References: Hi, A babbet bearing hollow scraper works well. With 3 sides, slightlysharpened, there is less chance of digging into the blank. catch ya' Don from BigJohn47@aol.com Mon Apr 2 19:49:31 2001 f330nUS07071 Subject: ring of fire does this ring of fire contraption really better than other methods or is it hype, just curious. t.i.a. does this ring of fire hype, just curious. from hartzell@easystreet.com Mon Apr 2 21:43:09 2001 f332h9S10063 f332h6922067; Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don,I spent quite a bit of time trying to get Marinaro tapers without muchluck. It seems that they are in the hands of a Pennsylvania museum whichplansto publish a book about Marinaro and does not want to let them out beforetheproper time in order to keep the book's value high. One of the Master's rodsbuilt in the east (a small one) was designed to Marinaro's specs. I think I canfind that for you, but it is not the 9 footer you are talking about. The peoplewho built it were not that pleased with the action. I too have wanted to buildsomething that was close to his work to see what it felt like, but it looks asthough we shall have to wait until they choose to release the figures. Let meknow if anything happens as a result of your research.Ed Hartzell Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. Marinaro says:page 52 - " For me, effective length is a very serious matter. In much ofmy meadow stream fishing, it is often necessary to kneel or even lie proneon one side to avoid spooking a nervous trout. A cast under thosecircumstance, especially a long one, needs a effective length that willhold the cast well above ground."page 54 - " I used to dream of a dry-fly rod - nine feet long, weighingunder four ounces"Page 54 - " I floundered about a great deal until I made the acquaintanceof the late Robert Crompton, a professional rod-builder from Saint Paul,Minnesota."Page 54 - "Crompton used to insist over and over again that no rod is fitto be a casting tool if it is made with a straight taper."Page 55 - "Convex tapers are not a new thing"Page 55 - " For many years I experimented a great deal with convex tapersand made some very good rods. But I was always obsessed with the idea ofgetting more length. I still wanted that nine footer".Page 59 - " The rod I wanted has the virtues of the dry-fly tip-action rodplus the durability of the parabolic and progressive tapers".Page 59 - " The butt joint of my projected nine-footer was no problem. Iwanted it stiff enough to confine the action in the upper regions. Iemployed, therefore, the full convex in sketch 2. The middle joint wheremost of the bend would take place needed a modified or delayed convex asinsketch 3. The desired effect here was to soften and spread the bend overagreater area than the fragile tip-action dry-fly rod. The top joint neededrefinement for delicacy in short casts, plus some stiffening from theconvex design to prevent excessive fallover on the longer casts."Page 59 - " The top half of the top joint is the most critical area in anyrod. It is the part the delivers the final impulse or thrust thatdetermines the character of the cast."Page 60 - " Any one of the convex joints that I have designed and shown insketches 2,3 and 4 by itself, would not make a good rod. All of themtogether or in combination make a superb rod. That is that way I got mynine-foot dry-fly rod, weighing less than four ounces."And from page 41 - "Accordingly, I have designed all my trout rods to carryonly one weight of line, a 5 weight." OK, that's the way Marinaro described Heaven. The challenge was totranslate his words and sketches into a taper that reflected what hedescribed. from the sketches, tapers that I've made or cast, blind intuition or damnsilliness, I attempted to figure out just what the measurements of thisrod.The sketches showed a distinct drop in taper near both ferrules. Further,the rate of change is 0.01435/5" of rod travel over the effective castinglength. This rate of change should be enough to support a rod of thislength.With these thoughts in mind, I plotted a taper as follows:0 - 0.0715 - 0.07810 - 0.09715 - .11620 - .13225 - .14630 - .15635 - .16440 - .17445 - .18650 - .20055 - .21660 - .23465 - .25170 - .26175 - .26980 - .27985 - .29690 - 31395 - .330100 - .347105 - 364110 - .381 Now, the question I got for you folks - Is this a approximation of theMarinaro rod? catch ya' Don from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Mon Apr 2 21:57:24 2001 f332vNS10552 Subject: Re: opening day Hi Bob,Got back from the Brodhead in P.A. Water temp. was 38 degrees. All Ican say is that taper you have of the 8' 2 piece Edward's quad slings aweighted stone fly nymph beautifully. Hope to try it next weekend, withmy silk line, (thanks) on some Quill Gordons.....Rich Bob Maulucci wrote: Any one out there? Seems like some opening days like here in NY(yesterday)must have put the "Gone Fishing" sign on the list.Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 23:42:37 2001 f334gaS12849 VAA11745; Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don I have the same burning question. Some time back a list member got hold ofMarinaro rods from his family, they were suppose to go to a museum orsomething. If I remember he was suppose to make known the taper to all. Iguess that never transpired. I read one post that said to get the taper youhad to donate money to the museum or something like that. One of thereasons I have taken up the art of the split cane was to unravel the rod ofthe "In the Ring of the Rise". What does the stress reading look like inHexrod? Might be interesting. Adam Vigil, D.C.----- Original Message ----- Subject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Guys/Gals, Marinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise" pages 52>60. from cwgray@lightcom.net Tue Apr 3 00:32:26 2001 f335WOS14219 Subject: (Fwd) Idaho Water Article Folks, Sorry if this is a lot of bandwidth. You may have heard that in the PNW we are a tad short on water this year. This article is from the Register's Outdoor section last week. I was in Oregon last week, the Portland paper had a main article on the first spring chinook salmon season since 1979. Maybe the last for awhile again with the low flows... ------- Forwarded message follows ------- March 29, 2001, ThursdaySECTION: News; Pg. d6LENGTH: 2487 wordsHEADLINE: Water worries - Truths, myths and unknown details of theimpendinglow-water year BYLINE: Rob Thornberry BODY: Let's play Chicken Little, and worry a bit.2001 is shaping up P for three reasons - as the driest year on record.First, there's little snow in the mountains. At the 25 measuring stations inthe Upper Snake River Valley, this year's winter moisture was roughly halfthe30-year average. Only the drought winter of 1977 received less snow.Second,there's not much water in the reservoirs. There's 20 percent less waterstoredin the system today than there was in the spring of 1992, the driest year ofthe 1990s. "We've never had this combination of low snow and low reservoirlevels before,'' said Lyle Swank of the Idaho Department of Water Resources.Third, forecasters are calling for a hot, dry summer. If the weather patternshold, the sky may really be falling: Next winter's flows on the South Forkcould drop below 1,000 cfs. Last winter, the flow was 1,100 cfs and itangeredanglers who thought the river's cutthroat fishery was being ruined. Onewaterofficial says there's a chance lower sections of the river could dry upcompletely. Small irrigation reservoirs like Glendale, Condie, Johnson andLamont could be drained dry, killing fish. There won't be enough water topushsalmon and steelhead smolts to the sea. The water temperatures may raisehighenough to doom next year's steelhead run by stalling and killing the fishbehind dams on the Columbia and lower Snake. Simply put, it's bleak news foranglers, whether they like trout, steelhead or bass. Adding to theuncertainty,the Committee of Nine is floating a proposal to deregulate how water isboughtand sold. If new rules are adopted, farmers could sell their water to IdahoPower for $60 to $100 per acre foot. There is no telling how that will affectanglers and fish. Today, the Post Register P er, the Chicken Little Gazette? -looks at water and its relationship to fishing. We present the good, the badand the potentially ugly consequences of this year's water situation.Everything is predicated on the weather. If it is cold and wet this summer,most problems won't surface. If it stays dry and warm, watch out. For moreinformation about water, the Bureau of Reclamation is hosting aninformationalmeeting, April 4 at the Pond Student Union at Idaho State University inPocatello. The meeting starts at 7 p.m. For now, though, let's worry a bit.Therealities ... Hot early, hot weather late. Fishing is going to be great earlyin the year and terrible in August and September, anglers and biologistsagree.Because of low runoff, rivers like the Teton and the South Fork should be infishable shape early, probably even for the Memorial Day opener. Thestoneflyhatch should be particularly good. Later in the year, water temperatures intheregion's rivers will rise and the fishing will slow. "Just like 1992, it'll bedead in August,'' said longtime angler Bruce Staples. A salvage season forbass. Prompted by irrigation, several southeastern Idaho reservoirs weredrained last year, prompting Fish and Game to open salvage seasons onHawkinsand Condie reservoirs. Biologists also moved bass from Condie to GlendaleReservoir. The outlook is the same for this year, said Harry Morse, Fish andGame spokesman in Pocatello. Threatened reservoirs include Condie,Hawkins,Lamont, Winder and Johnson. If there are problems, biologists will again opensalvage seasons. They will also try to move bass. The department's biggestchallenge may be finding places to put bass. "Where do you move bass if youhave no place to move them?'' Morse asked. "That's something we are lookingat.We don't know the answer right now so we're putting together plans andcontingency plans.'' The hatches will come early. Because the water will below, the bug hatches will come early in 2001, anglers said. A good example isthe spring's blue-winged olive hatch. Normally, it peaks around April 15. Thisyear, it started a week ago and could be over by tax day. In some cases, thehatches won't come at all. For example, gray drakes are plentiful in highwateryears. They won't be this year. Steelhead and salmon fishing will soon suffer.Because of the drought, this year's migration conditions for salmon andsteelhead smolts are among the worst ever, said Virgil Moore, head offisheriesdivision for Fish and Game. Smolts ride the annual runoff to the ocean.Withoutlots of water, lots of fish will die behind dams. Because so many smolts won'tmake it to the ocean, steelhead fishing could suffer next fall and salmonfishing could be hurt as early as 2002. "It's bad. It's gonna be as low asurvival as we've ever seen,'' Moore said. The conditions are particularlytough on wild salmon. There weren't many wild fish on redds last year, whichmeans there won't be a lot of smolts heading to the ocean. And those thatdomove downstream will have a tough time, Moore said. "It's a double whammy,''Moore said. Some rivers will run dry. Rivers without reservoirs, like the lowerportions of the Big Wood and the lower stretch of the Big Lost near Moorewillrun dry this summer, Moore said. ... the myths ... Low flows automaticallymeanfewer fish. One of the great misconceptions in eastern Idaho this year isthatthe winter's low flows will damage the South Fork fishery, said Mark Gamblin,fisheries manager in Idaho Falls. "We don't have a clearly defined relationshipbetween lower flows and fish mortality,'' he said. "Anglers can believe thatless water means fewer fish, but it's not that simple.'' Mother Natureannuallyproduces more fish than necessary. Lots die. Fish evolved in droughts andfloods and biologists frankly don't understand how many are needed eachyear tofuel the fishery. Of course a lack of water will kill some fish, but thatdoesn't mean anglers will see a decline in the fishery. "The single mostimportant concept is that you can't stockpile wildlife,'' Gamblin said."Natural mortality drives the availability of fish and wildlife.'' Let's put itanother way. At 1,500 cfs, the river's fish population may produce 1 millionfry. (The numbers are hypothetical.) Because of predators and competitionforfood and living space, 500,000 fish may live through their first winter. Thatmay be twice as many as is needed to have a healthy fishery or it may be theriver's carrying capacity. Nobody knows. The same is true at a lower flow,especially a one-time flow like this winter's 1,100 cfs. At 1,100 cfs, theriver's population may produce 750,000 fry. Because of predators andcompetition, only 300,000 may live through the first winter. That may ormaynot be enough fish to fill the river's available habitat, Gamblin said. "Waterand fish survival are related,'' Gamblin said. "We don't know what thebreakingpoint is.'' History backs Gamblin's assertion. Despite the prolonged droughtofthe late 1980s, the fish populations on the South Fork and Henry's Forksurvived and quickly thrived again. "Once we got our flows back, in areas withgood habitat, we got our populations back quickly,'' said Virgil Moore, head offisheries department for Fish and Game. Closing rivers to protect fish isunavoidable. Water temperatures are going to rise as flows decrease. Atsomepoint, the water temperature may become lethal, especially to fish caughtandstressed by anglers. Because of that, some anglers want Fish and Game toimplement closures. Gamblin said closures are unnecessary. "I have littlefaithto say we could show a benefit to fish or anglers by instituting a closure,''he said. Montana closes the Big Hole River when the water flow gets too low,but Gamblin doesn't believe the closure is for biological reasons. It's agood-faith gesture to farmers and ranchers, who agreed to leave water inthestreams during the heart of the summer, Gamblin said. "It's myunderstanding ofthe situation that the basic message to irrigators has been 'give us somewaterand we'll take steps to protect the fishery,' '' Gamblin said. "You can'tregulate for individual fish or individual anglers,'' he said. ... and theworst case ince there is little water in the mountains or in the region'sstorage reservoirs, irrigators could use all the water in the system thisyear,said Ron Carlson, watermaster for the Upper Snake River Valley. What thatmeansto the rivers, the fish and the anglers is unknown. "We've never been therebefore,'' Carlson said. "We don't know what will happen when our ability todeliver storage is limited. Having storage in those reservoirs is what makesthe system work.'' The possibilities are frightening. For example, portions ofthe South Fork could be dewatered, Carlson said. If in September, irrigatorsare still pulling water from the river and Water District 1 doesn't have anymore water to release from Palisades Reservoir or Jackson Lake, sections ofriver could go dry. "We could see the river at Lorenzo run dry or the river atBlackfoot run dry,'' Carlson said. "That's the worst-case scenario I couldsee.'' Carlson's office faced a similar dilemma in 1992. The problem wasaverted when a hard frost hit in late August of that year, ending theirrigation season. This year is similar to 1992, with one major exception:Water managers are starting the year down 300,000 acre feet from 1992."Thisyear's problems are reality, not supposition,'' Carlson said. To exacerbatethesituation, the West's power crunch is making water extremely valuable, whichopens the door for big money interests to dictate flows. Idaho Power hasoffered to buy any storage for at least $60 per acre foot. If that plan isadopted, the strains on an already burdened water system will be enormous."I'mafraid we're going to see more requests where the sportsmen are asked tobearthe brunt of keeping power prices down and power available,'' said VirgilMoore, head of fisheries for the Idaho Department of Fish and Game. Tomake hispoint, Moore points to Idaho Power's request to divert water out of theSnakeRiver below Milner Dam. The water will be piped down a canal and pushedthroughan efficient turbine. That's good for electricity, bad for the river. More thana mile of stream will be dried up. "The competition for winter water could geteven more severe,'' he said. There is one sliver of good news. Despite thefactthat commodity prices continue to flounder, Carlson said it is unlikely mostirrigators will sell their water to Idaho Power. He said every member of anirrigation district would have to agree to sell, which is unlikely, especiallyin large irrigation districts. That is little solace to Mark Gamblin, fisheriesmanager in Idaho Falls. "We're going to suffer constraints because of thewatersituation,'' he said. "It's very gloom, and there's very little we can doexcept educate anglers about the inevitable.'' ----------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- C W Graycwgray@lightcom.net from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 3 06:11:01 2001 f33BB0S17957 f33BB0Ud032621;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 06:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: ring of fire I can only relate than my PHY rods seem to have an extra amount of power,that I don't notice with other cane rods I fish. Paul felt his heattreatment, developed over many years, did temper the culms power fibersandgave them more strength.GMA from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Apr 3 06:31:23 2001 f33BVMS18380 ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:30:14 -0400 Subject: PHY 5 strip I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay? I cannot believe it. Is this a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else, it should be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Apr 3 06:37:55 2001 f33BbsS18628 ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:37:43 -0400 Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip Replying to myself....Maybe an Uslan sold through PHY's shop? from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 3 07:48:52 2001 f33CmpS19717 Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] Don - This is a mystery that I also would like to see solved. I have never seen the 9 footer, but have heard it was a really good rod from some people who cast it and know what they are doing. Marinaro's and Crompton's taper theories seem strange to me. I can't comprehend how they would not hingeat the ferrule areas, but hey, I've been wrong before. The thing that really baffles me is the "under 4 ounces" part for a 9 foot rod with a stiff butt. I figured the theoretical weight of your taper (cane only) at over 5 ounces. That is based on Wayne's hex96c program, which conviently reports this number. Garrison's math does not compensate forthe drop in density due to increasing pith in thicker sections, so the weights are always high, but even deducting 25%, it hard to see how you could bring the rod in under 4 ounces. Maybe you have some data from similar tapers?I do believe the good people working on the museum project will eventually publish, and help us solve the mystery. As you may know, Marinaro was extraordinarily secretive about his tapers, and no one I have ever heard of claims to have any real information, even those who were close to Mr. Marinaro. from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 3 07:54:25 2001 f33CsOS19997 Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip Hi Bob,The last 4 days I have been unable to get through to e-bay. Is it somethingwrong on my side? I have treid two seperate computers and both IE andNetscaspe. Rich-----Original Message----- Subject: PHY 5 strip I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay? I cannot believe it. Isthis a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else, itshould be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Tue Apr 3 07:55:44 2001 f33CthS20171 f33CthUd010426;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:55:43 -0500 Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip My first thought is an Uslan that PHY rebuilt, or got the blank for. As muchas he experimented though, there's no telling ????GMA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 3 07:56:11 2001 f33CuAS20265 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:55:29 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip --------------720BD48DA4A0A26E89CB9418 Bob,something seems fishy here, no pun intended ?? For a rod that is inexcellent condition, it looks to me that the tips are different lengths and thewrapping on the tip tops is different too? Is that what passes for anexcellentcondition, only fished a couple hours, off the showroom rod nowadays??I would definitely want some reassurance and better pictures before Ievenconsidered looking at this one.Not always, but most times when money is involved, if it smells like askunkit more often than not is a skunk!Shawn Bob Maulucci wrote: I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay? I cannot believe it. Isthis a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else, itshould be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------720BD48DA4A0A26E89CB9418 Bob, here, to me that the tips are different lengths and the wrapping on the tip topsis different too? Is that what passes for an excellent condition, only want some reassurance and better pictures before I even considered lookingat this one. whenmoney is involved, if it smells like a skunk it more often than not isa skunk! Shawn Bob Maulucci wrote:I could not let this one go. A PHY 5 strip on eBay?I cannot believe it. Isthis a belated April Fools joke or a long kept secret? If nothing else,itshould be an interesting thrread.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129644556Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------720BD48DA4A0A26E89CB9418-- from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 3 08:51:29 2001 f33DpSS22719 Subject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that i =don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history =of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to my =problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris =bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set =the forms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get = i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to be =more accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean i =am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it is =as though i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight =zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss =feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike list, come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has = in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal = compared to my problem. = dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on = rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to work indepently = other. i get different readings with each system. know i should trust = (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), but = the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go = mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with = and toss feathery equations that have the mass of a black =hole.. upstairs? mike from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Apr 3 09:09:41 2001 f33E9eS23484 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reel foot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + the handleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got to under4 ozs. catch ya' Don from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 3 09:23:36 2001 f33ENZS24221 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 07:23:31 -0700 Subject: Re: parallel universe --------------34BC5FAD2017B9B2180852EC Mike,I've been using a Waara v-block on and off for a coupleof years. One thing I've learned is that it is less than equilaterals. Guess I'm saying that just because all threesides measure equal with the v-block, that doesn't mean theyare equal.Do some measuring without the v-block. That might bethe source of your measuring errors. Be completely surethat each strip at each station is completely equilateral.Otherwise, you'll have skewed numbers and quite likely, uglyglue lines. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool. But it has somelimitations for which we must account. Harry mike canazon wrote: i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. iwent to chris bogart's site and got instruction on usingdrill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seemsto work indepently of the other. i get different readingswith each system. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------34BC5FAD2017B9B2180852EC Mike, saying that just because all three sides measure equal with the v-block,that doesn't mean they are equal. That Otherwise,you'll have skewed numbers and quite likely, ugly glue lines. it has some limitations for which we must account. mike canazon wrote: ordereda waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site andgot instruction on using drill rods to accurately set the forms. each systemseems to work indepently of the other. i get different readings with eachsystem. --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------34BC5FAD2017B9B2180852EC-- from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Apr 3 09:25:04 2001 f33EP3S24388 Subject: RE: parallel universe this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I had the same problem. Used three different methods for measuring depth:rods, depth guage, and test strips, and got three different results.Finally realized I was being a complete idiot and reading my depth guageincorrectly. Upon reading it correctly, the guage and the rods methodstarted matching up within 2 thou's, and I decided to average thosemeasurements. A machinist I ain't, and don't think I ever will achieve theaccuracy I desire. -----Original Message----- Subject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that idon't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history ofthe rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to my problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chrisbogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set theforms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get differentreadings with each system. i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to bemore accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean i amoff by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it is asthough i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight zone,whereeinstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss feathery equationsthat have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike I had depth: rods, realized I was being a complete idiot and reading my depth guage started matching up within 2 thou's, and I decided to average those the accuracy I desire. -----Original Message-----From: mike canazon 2001 8:51 parallel universelist, (#1) i have come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be galfridays compared to my problem. block and a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to workindepently of the other. i get different readings with each system. the rods (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), buthow can the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go door of a mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt mewith numbers and toss feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole.. upstairs? mike from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Apr 3 10:31:27 2001 f33FVQS27873 IAA29262; Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Don, I ran your numbers through Hexrod and the stress curve is interesting. I amno expert in reading or understanding the Hexrod program but how I read itis there is alot of stress in the tip about 4000 and it decreases to justbefore the 1st ferrul. Then the stress moderatly increases in the midsection and then taper down to a slight increase in the but section. In myminds eye this is how I have envisioned the mulitple convex tapers wouldact. The stress numbers look rather high 4000 in the tip and 2000 in thebut. I am wondering if the overall dimensions of the rod could be decreased.I wonder if a decrease in the dimensions would be fesible for a 9 foot roddue to the strength increase of the convex area of the taper. I wonder ifthe numbers you provided wouldnt be more suitable to a line heavier than a5wt. I plugged in a 5 wt line because that is the only one Marinaro used. Iwill send you the info from Hexrod. I will do it this afternoon. Maybesomeone can get this 9ft 5wt with a tip action under 4oz nailed. I wouldexpect alot of cane rod caster might not like his rod. He wanted a tipcasting rod and as you know did not like the parabolics. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: More on Marinaro Rod from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 3 11:01:32 2001 f33G1VS29404 Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Folks,I was at a fly shop on Sunday and there were two flyfishers there thatfished with Marinaro. They said in passing that the rod he liked to fishwith had a metal spike that slid from the handle that he would stick in theground when not fishing. I found that quite interesting. Rich-----Original Message----- Subject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reel foot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + the handleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got tounder4 ozs. catch ya' Don from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 3 11:31:22 2001 f33GVLS01483 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your rod downand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt, etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way the lastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objects protruding from my rod! Bob -----Original Message----- rodmakers@mail.wustL.edu Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Folks,I was at a fly shop on Sunday and there were two flyfishers there thatfished with Marinaro. They said in passing that the rod he liked to fishwith had a metal spike that slid from the handle that he would stick in theground when not fishing. I found that quite interesting. Rich-----Original Message-----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 1:09 PMSubject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reelfoot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + thehandleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got tounder4 ozs. catch ya' Don from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 3 11:48:57 2001 f33GmvS02439 Subject: Paul Young 5 sider Hey, I have a PHY 4 footer made of fiberglass and a PHY where he actually used an Orvis blank! Paul Young Rod Company sold reel seat hardware with their name stamped onit. In fact, in 1961 when Art Warner made the 4 footer I refer to, he was told I suspect that some guy bought a Herter's slab, planed up a 5 sided rod and used the ferrules, thread seat hardware etc he bought from PHY. Remember twenty years ago when the only really good hardware you could buy was fromT & T? You saw lots of rods with T & T caps and rings. Years ago, I am sure the same was true with PHY hardware. Chris Lucker from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 12:51:32 2001 f33HpQS05124 2001 10:51:27 PDT Subject: Re: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [ long ] i am assuming this is a 3pc rod? timothy --- Adam Vigil wrote:Don I have the same burning question. Some time back alist member got hold ofMarinaro rods from his family, they were suppose togo to a museum orsomething. If I remember he was suppose to makeknown the taper to all. Iguess that never transpired. I read one post thatsaid to get the taper youhad to donate money to the museum or something likethat. One of thereasons I have taken up the art of the split canewas to unravel the rod ofthe "In the Ring of the Rise". What does the stressreading look like inHexrod? Might be interesting. Adam Vigil, D.C.----- Original Message -----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:25 PMSubject: In search of Vince Marinaro's Obsession [long ] Guys/Gals, measure for a rod thatMarinaro described in the "Ring of the Rise"pages 52>60. ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Apr 3 14:01:57 2001 f33J1tS08155 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:01:51 -0700 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:01:50 -0700 Subject: More on Marinaro Rod FILETIME=[8A7D4B40:01C0BC70] Hello List, I did a quick search on Vincent Marinaro and found where his personalfishing effects are to be housed. Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum Association1240 North Mountain RoadHarrisburg, PA 171121-717-541-0622 The Museum Web site is: http://www.paflyfishing.org/ The web page about the collection:http://www.paflyfishing.org/new_page_5.htm Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320-0349;USA URL:URL:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010403T190148ZEND:VCARD from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 3 14:07:05 2001 f33J75S08539 Subject: Fwd: FW: Johnny/delete if you do not want another joke Guys, She is at it again. My wife seems to have too much free time on her handsat work. Hope you guys are not Democrats. Seems like I do not have much toadd to the list lately except jokes. Hey, shoot me.Bret 03 Apr 2001 14:24:02 -0500 Apr 2001 14:23:37 2000 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 13:22:37 -0500 Subject: Fwd: FW: Johnny "jennie " ,"ray/jill " ,"mom/rick " ,"jane " ,"laura " ,"linda " ,"rachel " ,"jeunesse " ,"christina/work " ,"penny " ,"jamie " ,"shannon " ,"angie " Subject: Fwd: FW: Johnny 0500 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:10:30 -0500 2001 11:10:15 -0500 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:10:15 -0500 , "Jackie Holycross", "Jamie Hayden", "Kathy Conrad", "Ruth Scaife" , "Shalanda Jackson", "Sheila Johnson", "Tasha Townsend", "'Ann'" , "'Aunt \"R\"'" , "'Becca'", "'Becky'" , "'Bev'", "'Cat'" , "'Chelly-Chell'" , "'G-Baby'", "'Georgiana'" , "'Kari'" , "'Mom'" , "'Qi Qi'" , "'Tracy'" Subject: FW: Johnny FILETIME=[91F3C5B0:01C0BC58]  The teacher says, "I'm going to ask some questions. Whoever answers the questions first, and correctly, can leave early today." Little Johnny says to himself, "Good, I want to get outta here. I'm clever - That answer's mine!" The teacher asked, "Who said 'Four Score and Seven Years Ago' "? Before Johnny could open his mouth, Susie said, "Abraham Lincoln!" The teacher said, "That's right, Susie, you can go." Johnny was mad. Susie had answered first. The teacher asked, "Who said, 'I Have a Dream?' " Before Johnny could open his mouth, Mary said, "Martin Luther King." The teacher said, "That's right, Mary, you can go." Johnny was even madder than before. Mary had answered first. The teacher asked, "Who said 'Ask not, what your country can do for you.' " Before Johnny could open his mouth, Nancy said, "John Kennedy." The teacher said, "That's right, Nancy, you can go." Johnny was fuming. Nancy had answered first. As the teacher sat down, Johnny muttered, "I wish those bitches had kept their mouths shut." The shocked teacher asked, "Who said that?" Johnny jumped up and hollered, "Bill Clinton! See you Monday!"    Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including anyattachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and maycontain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorizedreview, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are notthe intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail anddestroy all copies of the original message. PARTNERS Health Plan Phone: 219-233-4899100 E. Wayne St., Suite 502 Fax: 219-234-7484South Bend, IN 46601 www.partnersindiana.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 3 14:28:26 2001 f33JSPS09575 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Paul Young 5 sider Well then, I'm glad I got out bid at $825... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Paul Young 5 sider Hey, I have a PHY 4 footer made of fiberglass and a PHY where he actuallyused an Orvis blank!Paul Young Rod Company sold reel seat hardware with their name stamped onit.In fact, in 1961 when Art Warner made the 4 footer I refer to, he was told I suspect that some guy bought a Herter's slab, planed up a 5 sided rod andused the ferrules, thread seat hardware etc he bought from PHY. Remembertwenty years ago when the only really good hardware you could buy was fromT& T? You saw lots of rods with T & T caps and rings. Years ago, I am surethe same was true with PHY hardware. Chris Lucker from gdabrowski@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 14:29:09 2001 f33JT8S09667 2001 12:29:09 PDT Subject: Re: PHY 5 strip Or... Maybe someone elses home made 5 strip put up withreel seat hardware salvaged from a PHY rod orpurchased from PHY. --- Bob Maulucci wrote:Replying to myself....Maybe an Uslan sold through PHY's shop? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Tue Apr 3 14:53:56 2001 f33JrtS11521 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: More on Marinaro Rod I believe Tom Whittle is the curator and is on this list... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: More on Marinaro Rod Hello List, I did a quick search on Vincent Marinaro and found where his personalfishing effects are to be housed. Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum Association1240 North Mountain RoadHarrisburg, PA 171121-717-541-0622 The Museum Web site is: http://www.paflyfishing.org/ The web page about the collection:http://www.paflyfishing.org/new_page_5.htm Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Apr 3 16:17:02 2001 f33LH0S15704 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Payne Parabolic Hi List,noticed a 7'6" Payne Parabolic on eBay, anyone happens to have this taper? regards danny from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 16:47:04 2001 f33Ll3S17255 2001 14:46:53 PDT Subject: Re: parallel universe toools canbe out of cal from each other also. you haveto decide which tool is going to have the final sayand adjust everthing else to that. it is also helpfulto develop a standard and return to it often. timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote:Mike,I've been using a Waara v-block on and off for acoupleof years. One thing I've learned is that it is lessthan equilaterals. Guess I'm saying that just becauseall threesides measure equal with the v-block, that doesn'tmean theyare equal.Do some measuring without the v-block. Thatmight bethe source of your measuring errors. Be completelysurethat each strip at each station is completelyequilateral.Otherwise, you'll have skewed numbers and quitelikely, uglyglue lines. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool. But ithas somelimitations for which we must account. Harry mike canazon wrote: i ordered a waara v-block and a dialindicator. iwent to chris bogart's site and got instruction onusingdrill rods to accurately set the forms. eachsystem seemsto work indepently of the other. i get differentreadingswith each system. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from bconner@mediaone.net Tue Apr 3 16:57:47 2001 f33LvkS17888; Subject: Springtime Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 3 17:02:50 2001 f33M2iS18249 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson 8015 Special Check this out for nice sample of Dickerson's work. I drooled profusely butit'scurrently at $3000 American/ appx.$5000 Canadian!!!!!Ouch! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1130143145enjoy,Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 3 17:05:53 2001 f33M5dS18670; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:04:53 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Springtime Bruce,I had a family of robin's build a very comfy nest under my deck. Thelining was from my bamboo shavings(when it is nice I sometimes work up onmy deckwith my girls). I did my heart good!Thought of making a dog bed out of it too once! Shawn Bruce Conner wrote: Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Apr 3 17:08:54 2001 f33M8sS19038 Subject: a wierd comment OK from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Apr 3 17:10:23 2001 f33MANS19235; Subject: Re: Springtime In a message dated 4/3/01 5:06:41 PM Central Daylight Time, nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca writes: Well, ther is the thought that I have a few birdfeedeers in my yard, and a couple of bird baths, and my cats like to play with the shavings!mark "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and swill beer the rest of his life." ~ JVG from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Apr 3 17:19:37 2001 f33MJMS19811 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:18:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Springtime f33MJaS19831 Good idea. My neighbor is a florist and uses my shavings as a base for giftbaskets and filler for certain arrangements. Better than throwing it in thetrash. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Bruce Conner 04/03/01 02:57PM >>>Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Apr 3 17:28:21 2001 f33MSJS20265 Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:28:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Springtime That would be a neat use. I love the smell of the shavings. Why not match them with flowers. At 03:18 PM 4/3/2001 -0700, Christopher McDowell wrote:Good idea. My neighbor is a florist and uses my shavings as a base for gift baskets and filler for certain arrangements. Better than throwing it in the trash. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Bruce Conner 04/03/01 02:57PM >>>Just a reminder that it's spring time for those of us in the northernhemisphere and all the little birds are happily building nests. If youput out a big handful of your shavings on a stick or next to a birdfeeder, you'll make some nest builders very happy. Bruce Conner Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from johnsabina@home.com Tue Apr 3 19:00:03 2001 f34003S23137 ;Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:59:59 -0700 Subject: Re: parallel universe Mike: You can get the wrong answer with a micrometer. The reading is =sensitive to the amount of pressure that you use to tighten the barrel. =You must make a conscious effort to put the same light tension on the =barrel each time. This is why some mics have a small diameter stem on =the barrel end. This small barrel has a light slip clutch to prevent =you from over tightening the barrel. But the mic also has to be square =with the surface to be measured. Compressibility of the material being =measured can introduce variation as well. Try taking something hard =(steel) with a two ground, parallel surfaces like a gage block or =engineering square and measure its thickness with both a mic and your =caliper. It might take a few tries to teach yourself the techniques. =Then move on to the tougher problem of measuring the depth of a 60 =degree groove. Good luck. JJS Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:50 AMSubject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that =i don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied =history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to =my problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris =bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set =the forms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get = i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to =be more accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean =i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it =is as though i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight =zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss =feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike Mike: You can get the wrong answer with a = reading is sensitive to the amount of pressure that you use to tighten = luck. JJS ----- Original Message ----- canazon Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 = AMSubject: parallel =universe list, = come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has = of in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal = compared to my problem. = a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on = drill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to work = of the other. i get different readings with each system. rods (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), = can the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i = of a mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt = hole.. upstairs? mike from DragonflyMAE@aol.com Tue Apr 3 20:00:41 2001 f3410eS24387 Subject: (no subject) Am I doing something wrong? I'm new to this computer so it's probably mebut I'm having a real hard time getting Powerfibers.com. It comes up but takes forever and just seems to stick ther and not move. I can't go forward and I can't get out. Could someone anyone please steer me in the right direction. I'm tring to work out Mr. Nunlys method of hand splitting.Thanks againMatthew Am I doing something but takes forward and I me in the right splitting. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 3 21:37:05 2001 f342b3S26443 Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Judging on what I've heard and read in catalogues the spike is used a bitin UK and Europe when corse fishing. Not that it's important but sayingthis does allow me to add that Bob should stay well clear of anything evenhinting at looking like a bayonet. At 11:25 AM 4/3/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your rod downand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt, etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way the lastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objects protruding from my rod! Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Apr 3 22:07:14 2001 f3437DS27249 Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod The spike was pretty common on early British rods. When not in use it isstored in the grip and removed and reversed when needed.I met Vince Marinaro at the Canadian Fly Fishing Forum about 22 years agoand had an opportunity to talk about bamboo rods and show him one of mine beyond what is in his book. I did learn that he prefered rabbit glue toglue up the sections and liked contorted willow for reel seats. Someone atthe Forum had just pruned the Contorted willow in their garden and Vincewent home with a bundle of it under his arm.----------From: Tony Young Cc: rcolo@ix.netcom.com; dmanders@telusplanet.net;rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: Re: More on Marinaro RodDate: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:38 PM Judging on what I've heard and read in catalogues the spike is used a bitin UK and Europe when corse fishing. Not that it's important but sayingthis does allow me to add that Bob should stay well clear of anythingevenhinting at looking like a bayonet. At 11:25 AM 4/3/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your roddownand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt,etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way thelastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objectsprotruding from my rod! Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Apr 3 22:25:06 2001 f343P5S27809 Subject: Re: (no subject) In a message dated 04/03/2001 9:01:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DragonflyMAE@aol.com writes: Matthew,Once you get into the Power fibers, it takesquite a while for the whole thing to load up into your computer.You just have to wait until it's all loaded. Then you can view itor print it, which ever you want to do. Be patient. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from miangler@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 00:05:54 2001 f3455rS29379 2001 22:05:55 PDT Subject: PHY on ebay! Don't mean to sound rude, but the skepticism beingpoured out on this guys rod is unfounded! He shouldbe taken at his word, after all, his uncle was aprofessional fly fisherman... lol, if only! =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from miangler@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 00:08:49 2001 f3458mS29582 2001 22:08:49 PDT Subject: fly reels? I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Apr 4 00:22:09 2001 f345M8S00139 f345M2069550; Subject: Re: parallel universe Mike I'd blame Tony Young for all this. He seems to have wakened the =Mathematical Kraken with all his blasted X-Files theorising! Remember, you don't actually need all this accuracy stuff. There are =only three necessary rod diameter measurement parameters - (a) Thin, =which is up the pointy end ; (b) Thick, down toward the person, usually =; and (c) Medium, which is the bit in between, mostly. Just hang on to those basics and you'll be OK; don't worry about all =this Greenie Yuppie Hippy mathematical table stuff! Peter Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:50 AMSubject: parallel universe list,while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that =i don't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied =history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to =my problem.i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chris =bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set =the forms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i get = i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to =be more accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean =i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it =is as though i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight =zone, where einstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss =feathery equations that have the mass of a black hole..should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike Mike I'd blame Tony Young for all this. He = theorising! Remember, you don't accuracy stuff. There are only three necessary rod = mostly. Just hang on to those basics and you'll= stuff! Peter ----- Original Message ----- canazon Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001= AMSubject: parallel =universe list, = come across a situation that i don't believe any one on this list has = of in the storied history of the rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal = compared to my problem. = a dial indicator. i went to chris bogart's site and got instruction on = drill rods to accurately set the forms. each system seems to work = of the other. i get different readings with each system. rods (even they differ, but i need to be more accurate in measuring ), = can the micrometer lie? i mean i am off by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i = of a mathematical twilight zone, where einstein and garrison assualt = hole.. upstairs? mike from channer@frontier.net Wed Apr 4 00:24:14 2001 f345OES00435 Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike, I have a J.Ryall and like it a lot. Have a San Miguel,too and it's verynice, but before I die, I'm gonna get me a Peerless!John Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 4 02:08:16 2001 f3478ES01979 Subject: Re: parallel universe Steady on there Peter, I was infering there are so many variables that takeplace in the casting that super accuracy at each point was not really assignificant as it would seem "obvious". Of course, I could be wrong too.You are right though. Aim for accuracy and you'll get a decent fishing rod.Themore you make the more accurate they'll become. Tony At 04:21 PM 4/4/01 +1000, Peter McKean wrote: Mike I'd blame Tony Young for all this. He seems to have wakened theMathematicalKraken with all his blasted X-Files theorising! Remember, you don't actually need all this accuracy stuff. There are onlythree necessary rod diameter measurement parameters - (a) Thin, whichis upthe pointy end ; (b) Thick, down toward the person, usually ; and (c)Medium,which is the bit in between, mostly. Just hang on to those basics and you'll be OK; don't worry about all thisGreenie Yuppie Hippy mathematical table stuff! Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: mike canazon Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:50 AM Subject: parallel universe list, while working on my rod (#1) i have come across a situation that idon't believe any one on this list has spoken of in the storied history ofthe rodmakers. shop gremlins would be gal fridays compared to myproblem. i ordered a waara v-block and a dial indicator. i went to chrisbogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to accurately set theforms. each system seems to work indepently of the other. i getdifferentreadings with each system. i know i should trust the rods (even they differ, but i need to bemore accurate in measuring ), but how can the micrometer lie? i mean iamoff by up to 7 or 8 thou. when i go downstairs to my work area it is asthough i had stepped through the door of a mathematical twilight zone,whereeinstein and garrison assualt me with numbers and toss featheryequationsthat have the mass of a black hole.. should i move my shop upstairs? still ridin' the bus mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Wed Apr 4 02:59:41 2001 f347xeS02607 Subject: Sv: More on Marinaro Rod f347xeS02608 The spike in the handle is an old Hardy invention.I've seen it on many of their rods. regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your rod downand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt, etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way the lastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objects protruding from my rod! Bob -----Original Message-----From: rcolo rodmakers@mail.wustL.edu Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 11:02 AMSubject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Folks,I was at a fly shop on Sunday and there were two flyfishers there thatfished with Marinaro. They said in passing that the rod he liked to fishwith had a metal spike that slid from the handle that he would stick in theground when not fishing. I found that quite interesting. Rich-----Original Message-----From: Don & Sandy Andersen Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 1:09 PMSubject: More on Marinaro Rod Guys, Several folks suggested that the rod should weight over 5 ozs. Not surewhat they are using for a reel seat or handle weights for the calculation. Marinaro says: Page 57 - " The butt end if the rod should be kept as lightly burdened aspossible. This combination of cork, high-density balsa wood, and a smallspringy reel-seat rings [ which can be pinched and slid over the reelfoot,then released to tighten into on of the crossgrooves of the reel foot]makes a lighter and more secure arrangement than a screw-lock, whicheitherunscrews itself or often requires a wrench to unscrew it." Looks like Marinaro used about a light a reel seat as possible + thehandleappears of be quite thin. Some of the above may explain how he got tounder4 ozs. catch ya' Don from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Apr 4 04:40:57 2001 f349evS03849 Subject: a joke, Ok, so this is not a joke list, or it isn't supposed to be, but I laughed at this, and woke my wife up. She was a bit upset. My braying at 4 am is not a good way to wake up!mark Fishing With Baby Sister------------------------A boy was taking care of his baby sister while his parents went to town shopping. He decided to go fishing and he had to take her along. "I'll never do that again!" he told his mother that evening. "I didn't catch a thing!" "Oh, next time I'm sure she'll be quiet and not scare the fish away," his mother said. The boy said, "It wasn't that. She ate all the bait." "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and swill beer the rest of his life." ~ JVG from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 4 05:41:10 2001 f34Af9S04608 f34Af6Ud018871;Wed, 4 Apr 2001 05:41:06 -0500 Subject: Re: a wierd comment Don't mess up a great way to enjoy working with your hands, by making abusiness out of it ! I speak with some knowledge from ruining modeling as ahobby ! GMA from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Apr 4 06:54:30 2001 f34BsSS05336 f34BsQ041810; Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod The( reversible) spike was a not uncommon feature on English rods. Itdisappeared into the reel seat when not being used. The TLW's had themavailable for many years. If Marinaro was really concerned about weight, I would have thought that thelast thing he would be incorporating into his rods would be a metal spikeand housing. One could assume safely, of course, that Marinaro had more rods than justone. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: More on Marinaro Rod Judging on what I've heard and read in catalogues the spike is used a bitin UK and Europe when corse fishing. Not that it's important but sayingthis does allow me to add that Bob should stay well clear of anything evenhinting at looking like a bayonet. At 11:25 AM 4/3/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Rich,I've heard this before, not sure if it was about Marinaro or someoneelse, but the idea of the spike was so you didn't have to lay your roddownand take a chance of yourself or someone else stepping on it and so youwouldn't have to lay a finely crafted rod down on grass, gravel, dirt,etc,... at least that was my understanding of it... personally, the way thelastyear has gone for me, I definitely don't need any sharp objectsprotruding from my rod! Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igiveexpress permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward thismessage. /*************************************************************************/ from Rcolo@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 4 08:25:52 2001 f34DPkS07197 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike I think you should definitely get some of these new fantastic flyreels, now concerning your old Hardy's...........lol, Rich P.S.Hold on to those Hardy's Mike! Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Apr 4 08:35:16 2001 f34DZFS07841 Subject: Re: Payne Parabolic Danny.I have the tapers for the Payne parabolic rods 7'1", 7'6", 7'9" both heavy and lite wtgs. My favorite is the 7'6" model in 4 wtg. E-Mail me at baconrod@gsmrinc.comBest Hal Bacon from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 4 09:41:38 2001 f34EfbS10937 Subject: re: parallel universe, now -60* point! i want to thank everyone for their input on the above matter. this =is like having a flight for life chopper parked in the yard. the patient =is doing well and planing away!a big part of my problem was not measuring accurately. then i took =the v-block for gospel, and when the readings i got there didn't agree =with the others, and it was not even consistent with itself (because of =poor angles), i headed upstairs for some aspirin and the rodmakers =list.on the way, i picked up planing form #66. i read bokstrom's article =on measuring strips a few times. on the bottom of the page i saw the = i had dropped my indicator saturday nite and broke the point, =leaving the threaded part in the indicator, and me with one less tool to =foul me up. in issue #66, bokstrom says to take your point out of the =indicator and set it to zero. i used a drill rod to set my forms and =v-block. then plane the strips, using the flat indicator as the depth =gage. as you are planing, the reading will steadily decrease and when it =reaches zero you are done. i did not have to take it out and measure in =the v-block every couple of passes, i just dropped the indicator on the =strip.i've got an extra 60* point if anyone needs it. still ridin' the bus mike all, the above matter. this is like having a flight for life chopper parked = yard. the patient is doing well and planing away! measuring accurately. then i took the v-block for gospel, and when the = with itself (because of poor angles), i headed upstairs for some = the rodmakers list. indicator = nite and broke the point, leaving the threaded part in the indicator, = with one less tool to foul me up. in issue #66, bokstrom says to take = and v-block. then plane the strips, using the flat indicator as the = decrease and when it reaches zero you are done. i did not have to take = and measure in the v-block every couple of passes, i just dropped the = on the strip. it. mike from carinad@netactive.co.za Wed Apr 4 10:03:57 2001 f34F3uS12197 (SAT) Subject: Impregnated rods I have, with the help of some of you guys, now built five fairly =succesfull bamboo rods, the latest being a very fast actioned 3 weight =on one of Frank Neunemann's tapers. It easily casts up to a 6 weight =line, yet it is a dream with 3 and 4 weight lines. Anyway, I do not have facilities fior dipping my rods, so I have =experimented with a variety of finishes. The best so far was Birwood =Casey's Tru Oil applied with a lint free cloth. I wonder if anyone else =has tried it? I would now like to try building an impregnated rod. Can =anyone give advice on the process and materials required for =impregnating a bamboo blank? Thank you, I have, with the help of some of you = built five fairly succesfull bamboo rods, the latest being a very fast = 3 weight on one of Frank Neunemann's tapers. It easily casts up to a 6 = line, yet it is a dream with 3 and 4 weight lines. Anyway, I do not have facilities fior = rods, so I have experimented with a variety of finishes. The best so far = Birwood Casey's Tru Oil applied with a lint free cloth. I wonder if = anyone give advice on the process and materials required for = bamboo blank? Thank you, Dirk = from dmanders@telusplanet.net Wed Apr 4 10:08:03 2001 f34F82S12644 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: And even some more on Marinaro Rod Guys/Gals, Several have written that perhaps the rod was built hollow. A caption on aphoto from page 49 says: "Soft pith, hard fiber, and good craftsmanshipcombined to create a miracle of strength and brilliant action in the modernspilt- bamboo fly rod."The above quote suggests that the rod was not hollow built.But another thing occurred to me - have heard or read that somemanufacturers of rods in their printed catalogues used the raw blank weightto describe the rod weight. Maybe this is what Marinaro meant. It wouldcertainly explain the conundrum of the length vs weight thing. catch ya' Don from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 4 10:15:28 2001 f34FFRS13181 Subject: parallel universe troy,i should have went into more detail but i was worried about =bandwidth. and there really aren't any stupid questions. i could give =you a list of the ones i was afraid to post, but i'm still new to this =myself and too ashamed to mention them yet..anyway, once the form is set properly and your indicator ( - 60* =pt., just using the stem) is set to zero, begin planing. place the =indicator on top of the strip. say it reads .012. flip the strip, plane. =drop the indicator on the strip. it now reads .009. measure all your =stations like this. you don't have to handle those fragile strips so = keep going til you reach zero. your strip is ready to go. just make =sure your angles are good as you go. still on the bus mike troy, was worried about bandwidth. and there really aren't any stupid = could give you a list of the ones i was afraid to post, but i'm still = this myself and too ashamed to mention them yet.. once = set properly and your indicator ( - 60* pt., just using the stem) is set = zero, begin planing. place the indicator on top of the strip. say it = flip the strip, plane. drop the indicator on the strip. it now reads = measure all your stations like this. you don't have to handle those = strips so much ( i broke my first tip last nite). go. mike from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 10:24:25 2001 f34FOPS13665 Apr 2001 08:24:22 PDT Subject: Ferrule Glue I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Apr 4 10:24:33 2001 f34FOXS13674 Subject: Re: fly reels? MikeI know I'm gonna get razzed for this one but,I like the Orvis CFO spring and pawl reels.They were designed by Hardy. And I think valueverses dollar they are a good workhorse. Yethave enough finesse for cane rods. They are light,machined from bar stock,and have a smooth drag.They look classic to me. Tony Miller MikeI know I'm gonna get razzed for this = but, reels.They were designed by Hardy. valueverses dollar they are a good = Yethave enough finesse for cane rods.They = light,machined from bar stock,and have a = drag.They look classic to me. = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 4 10:33:13 2001 f34FXCS14449 Subject: re: parallel universe troy,again, the fault is mine. i have a slotted indicator base. it sits =on the form, not the strip. i can slide it from station to station, = mike troy, i have a slotted indicator base. it sits on the form, not the strip. i = it from station to station, check them all now with out picking up the = mike from rextutor@about.com Wed Apr 4 11:18:36 2001 f34GIaS16485 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 09:17:55 -0700 Subject: instruction on using drill rods Where is chris bogart's site and got instruction on using drill rods to set measurement tools to zero ? By drill rods is that a drill bit ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Apr 4 12:30:44 2001 f34HUgS19754 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:29:56 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike,I have Hardy Bougle' for my larger (4-5wt rods) and a small Teton forthesmaller ones. Both are reasonably priced and do trout fine.I wouldn't partwitheither even though the Teton has a way better drag than I will probably everneed ontrout.I would agree with Tony that for the price the CFO's are a good deal,ifyouhave the bucks a Bill Ballan is nice, I think Danny Twang has a friend that isbuilding a pretty sharp reel for a decent price as well. Pfleugers(not thegross low end model) they are workhorses and are timeless.There are dozens of reels out there both inexpensive and overpricedthat Iwould love to have, it's all a matter of personal taste and wallet/credit cardlimit;^PShawn Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Apr 4 13:18:39 2001 f34IIcS21474 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 11:16:50 -0700 Subject: RE: Fly Reels f34IIdS21475 I like the classic style reels, and they look great and balance well on bamboorods. I like a smooth, quiet click drag. My Hardy Marquiz looks nice, but isvery light in weight and loud when stripping line. I know, I can turn the dragoff, but I just like the smooth buzz and stability of the typical classic stylereel. Bill Ballan, W.E. Adams, Bellinger-Sarcione, Peerless, Bacon etc. I can'tafford to own all of these, but they sure are pretty. Are the J. Ryall reels classic style? from oossg@vbe.com Wed Apr 4 13:19:54 2001 f34IJrS21650 Organization: Oshkosh Office Systems Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bill,I have used ferrule cement for years, it is a heat sensitive glue thatmakes removal of worn and damaged tiptops and ferrules a breeze.You can get it from a variety of sources, I got my last tube from Russat Goldenwitch. No connection, blah blah blah.Scott Bill Walters wrote: I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Apr 4 13:33:28 2001 f34IXRS22625 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Ferrule Glue Ferrule glue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue and it is still made byFlexcoat and Gudebrod and can be found at www.vfish.net/store1.htm look under supplies I've found that 5 minute epoxy also releases with heat when used onferrules. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrule Glue I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 4 13:42:23 2001 f34IgIS23193 ;Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:42:14 +0000 Subject: Re: (no subject) find that you have to be very patient because it takes quite some time = forthe information to download. time for the information to download. Jack JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 4 13:56:06 2001 Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net ;Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:56:01 +0000 Message-ID:From: "Jacques Subject: Re:Ferrule Glue Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:56:48 -0400 Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu They used good old fashioned Ferrule Cement andprobably got it from Herters. Jack > from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Apr 414:46:52 2001 Received: from slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net uid 0); 4 Apr 2001 19:46:43 -0000 Received: fromunknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (63.228.199.15) by slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net miangler@yahoo.com, " " User-Agent:Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: fly owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu have a J. Ryall that I bought several years ago afterordering some at the Denver Fly Tackle Dealer show. Jim Ryall sold me onthem when he chucked one at the concrete floor. When Iretrieved it, it didn't have a scratch on it. So, I ordered some for the shop Iwas working for and bought one for myself. I have used ithard for four seasons and it doesn't show a sign of wear. It's a great reel.However, I have been wondering if maybe one of theMarryat reels might go nicely with a cane rod. I had a few that never sold andat the time I thought they were kind of fragile, with aheinously complicated drag. Anyway, they are really light, work efficiently,and sound REALLY smooth. So, I guess my opinion onthem has changed. There is also a bronze model that would look really nicewith a flamed rod, not that that's important or anything... miangler@yahoo.com > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:08:49 know this is off the rod making subject, but I was >wondering what some of you guys think a suitable > MODERN fly reel make is Ryall reels, but fish with > old Hardys. > > Mike > > ===== >http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html > >__________________________________________________ > Do YouYahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo!Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > from bmaulucci@adelphia.netWed Apr 4 15:23:45 2001 Received: from Apr 2001 16:23:27 -0400 Message-Id:X-Sender: bmaulucci@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu From: Bob Maulucci Subject: Reels owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have a HardyBougle IV, and it is great except that changes spools is a pain in the buttsection. It does balance nicely on a 7-8" cane rod. I also havea Ross Colorado that is nice for the money. Looks rather Hardy like. I mustadmit that the new Bacon reels, the Adams, the Ballans,the Saraciones, and the Peerless have always looked right on cane. I wouldlike to get one of those, but the Hardy is nice, I don'tknow. Of the above reels, which ones are the easiest to change spools on?That would be nice for silk line use, since I could easilyswitch lines between my 4 and 5 weights as well as using PVC lines in a pinch.Thanks in advance, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com 218 Wallace Avenue Buffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home 716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.net bob@downandacross.com >Frombhoy551@earthlink.net Wed Apr 4 15:24:30 2001 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with Apr 2001 16:24:27 -0400 Message-Id:X-Sender:bhoy551@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM darrell@rockclimbing.org, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com, format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2001 20:24:27.0714 (UTC) bhoy551@earthlink.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 --ListProc(tm) by CREN I archived a post from John Zimny (I think) which saidthat hot melt glued ferrules needed pinning. Is thiscorrect? Bill At 11:33 AM 4/4/2001 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote: >Ferruleglue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue and it is still made byFlexcoat and Gudebrod and can be found at > >www.vfish.net/store1.htmlook under supplies > >I've found that 5 minute epoxyalso releases with heat when used on >ferrules. > >Darrell >www.vfish.net >-----Original Message----- >From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Bill Walters >Sent: Wednesday, just removing some ferrules from a South Bend >and gotto thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40s >and 50s use for ferrule gluethat is still so >tenacious yet softens with the applicationof heat > from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for this >applicationneeds the flexibility you don't usually >get with epoxy andthe heat resistance that allows it >to only be removed with a heat source,like a heat >gun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets these >criteria? > >Bill Walters >__________________________________________________ >Do YouYahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo!Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us WedApr 4 15:35:41 2001 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with Miller cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Tony Miller wrote: > Mike > I knowI'm gonna get razzed for this one but, Don't count on it. > I like the Orvis CFOspring and pawl reels. > They were designed byHardy. Designed by Bogdan, built by Hardy, sold by Orvis. (it's a BIG bed!) >And I think value > verses dollar they are a goodworkhorse. Yet > have enough finesse for cane rods. They are light, >machined from bar stock,and have a smooth drag. > They lookclassic to me. The redesigned Hardy Marquis deserves a look if you areconsidering a CFO. But the original question was for amodern reel which presumably means a disc drag? Didn't see FlyLogicOptimum, AYR or Galvan mentioned yet. Worth a look. I'vebeen fishing a Bacon so far this season on my 3wt. Regards, Bob Fly Suppliesaflyshop.com > from paul.blakley@ntlworld.comWed Apr 4 15:42:18 2001 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07- Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:42:17 +0100 Message-ID:Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 21:41:01 paul.blakley@ntlworld.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X- ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender:owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN What with relationsbetween the US and China currently being at a low perhaps now is the time tostock up on the precious material........any politiciansout there available for comment ?....Paul > from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us WedApr 4 15:46:05 2001 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with Maulucci cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bob Maulucci wrote: > I have aHardy Bougle IV, and it is great except that changes spools is a > pain in thebutt section. It does balance nicely on a 7-8" cane rod. Ialso > have a Ross Colorado that is nice for the money. Looks rather Hardylike. > > I must admit that the new Bacon reels, theAdams, the Ballans, the > Saraciones, and the Peerless have always lookedright on cane. I would like > to get one of those, but theHardy is nice, I don't know. > > Of the above reels, which ones are the easiestto change spools on? That > would be nice for silk lineuse, since I could easily switch lines between > my 4 and 5 weights as well asusing PVC lines in a pinch. The Adams is the easychange spool. Problem is the spools aren't cheap. The S- handle is part of thebarstock. Anodized black then polished back to silver tomake it look like a separate handle. If you want to see a pic let me know.Regards, Bob Fly Supplies aflyshop.com >Fromdryfly@erols.com Wed Apr 4 16:01:12 2001 Received: from 17:01:12 -0400 Message-ID:Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:03:52 -0500 From: Robert S Williams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] bmaulucci@adelphia.net CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject:Re: Reels References: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Most of the the classic reels being made today eitherdon't allow changing spools or it is a pain to do so streamside. However, afew that do permit spools changes that can be donestreamside (I advise never changing a spool midstream) are the Adams andthe Hardy Jr St George, which change spools with a leveron the spool, just like the CFOs and Hardy Lightweight series. Additionally,the Ballan Trout Classic series that has a thumbscrew toremove the spools (these are the ones I use for silk lines since I change to anon-silk line when I want). Finally, the Hardy Perfect, theWinston classic, the Winston Hardy Perfect copy, a few Ballans, someRobichauds, some Ted Godfrey reels and some Saracioneshave removable backs that once twisted off allow spool changes. You can buyextra spools for the Peerless reels but you have todisassemble them to change the spools. For me the Ballan Trout classicseries (Raised Pillar), the Robichauds, the ones which had theremovable backs (Robichauds are no longer being made) and the Perfect aremy choice for both quality of use and ease of changingspools. The easiest by far are the Adams and Hardy Jr St George. Bob BobMaulucci wrote: > I have a Hardy Bougle IV, and it isgreat except that changes spools is a > pain in the butt section. It doesbalance nicely on a 7-8" cane rod. I also > have a RossColorado that is nice for the money. Looks rather Hardy like. > > I mustadmit that the new Bacon reels, the Adams, the Ballans, the >Saraciones, and the Peerless have always looked right on cane. I would like >to get one of those, but the Hardy is nice, I don't know.Of the above reels, which ones are the easiest to change spools on? Thatwould be nice for silk line use, since I could easilyswitch lines between > my 4 and 5 weights as well as using PVC lines in apinch. > > Thanks in advance, > Bob Maulucci >================================================== >http://www.powerfibers.com >http://www.downandacross.com > 218 Wallace Avenue > Buffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home > 716-867-0523 cellular >bmaulucci@adelphia.net > bob@downandacross.com > from rmoon@ida.netWed Apr 4 16:31:34 2001 Received: from ida.net Apr Apr 2001 21:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown 21:31:23 -0000 Message-ID:Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:24:10 -0600 bhoy551@earthlink.net CC:darrell@rockclimbing.org, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com, rodmakers Subject: Re:Ferrule Glue References: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Whenever someonelike John tells you something, believe him!!!He knows. I still think that ferrulecement is nothing but a real bummer. I have seen somany loose ferrules with the dry powdery remains of ferrule cement puffingout like a locomotive. Urethane bond is still the very bestferrule adhesive you can use. It expands slightly making a more secure fitand filling voids. It stays slightly flexible so that you don'tget a hard dried plug with no adhesion as you do with epoxies. It releases withheat at a temperature unlikely to be reached by naturalmeans, but still is below the danger point for bamboo. Bill Hoy wrote: > Iarchived a post from John Zimny (I think) which said thathot melt glued > ferrules needed pinning. Is this correct? > > Bill > > At11:33 AM 4/4/2001 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote: > >Ferruleglue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue and it is still made by > >Flexcoat andGudebrod and can be found at > > >www.vfish.net/store1.htm look under supplies > > > >I've found that 5minute epoxy also releases with heat when used on >ferrules. > > > >Darrell > >www.vfish.net > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu > rodmakers > >Subject: Ferrule Glue > > > > > >I was just removing someferrules from a South Bend > >and got to thinking. Whatdid the rodmakers of the 40s > >and 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat > from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for this > >application needs theflexibility you don't usually > >get with epoxy and theheat resistance that allows it > >to only be removed with a heat source, likea heat > >gun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets these > >criteria? > > > >BillWalters > > >__________________________________________________ > >DoYou Yahoo!? > >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo!Mail. > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > from darrell@rockclimbing.orgWed Apr 4 16:31:58 2001 Received: from for Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:31:11 -0700 From: Darrell Lee Rodmakers (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; darrell@rockclimbing.org Sender:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I was thinking thesame thing this morning... another bamboo embargo? I sure hope not...Darrell -----Original Message----- From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of paul.blakley Sent: Wednesday, relations between the US and China currently being ata low perhaps now is the time to stock up on the precious material........anypoliticians out there available for comment ?....Paul from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Apr 4 16:38:51 2001 Received: fromslkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) 21:38:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:38:42 -0600 Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 text/plain; jvswan@earthlink.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Well, since you've suggested it... I was wondering if thereis anyone on the list that would be interested in splitting an order for somebamboo? I don't know if I can use a full bundle now, andit would cut the cost of shipping. I live in Logan, any takers? Go ahead andreply off line. Jason Swan > From: "paul.blakley" > What with relations between the US and China currently being at a low >perhaps now is the time to stock up on the preciousmaterial........any > politicians out there available for comment ?....Paul > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 4 16:44:02 2001 2001 14:43:57 -0700 Message-ID:Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:42:50 -0500 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] bhoy551@earthlink.net,wlwalter77us@yahoo.com, rodmakers Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue References: fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) or anyone else, but I completely agree. EvenPliobond is better than the stick ferrule cement. I think that's what lots ofthe old makers used that still holds tight today. ButUrethane Bond is great. Can't imagine why anyone would use anything else.Give it a try, folks. And before anyone asks, you can getit from Ron Cornell. His email is easypoxy@compuserve.com There's aminimum order of three tubes, I think, at $3.75 each. Ifanyone orders some and wants to get rid of a tube or two, let me know. I'mdown to about half a tube. Harry Boyd Ralph W Moonwrote: > Urethane bond is still the very best ferrule adhesive you > can use.It expands slightly making a more secure fit and fillingvoids. It > stays slightly flexible so that you don't get a hard dried plug withno > adhesion as you do with epoxies. It releases withheat at a temperature > unlikely to be reached by natural means, but still isbelow the danger point > for bamboo. -- Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." http://www.canerods.com/Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church >Frombmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Apr 4 16:45:06 2001 Received: from GBAF2S02.563 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:44:52 -0400 Message-Id:X- Sender:bmaulucci@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 --ListProc(tm) by CREN Thanks goodness I got my 4 bundles last month fromDan Whalen at Imperial. That should last a lifetime forme. Bob At 03:38 PM 4/4/2001 -0600, Jason Swan wrote: >Well, sinceyou've suggested it... I was wondering if there is anyone onthe list that would be interested in splitting an order for some bamboo? Idon't know if I can use a full bundle now, and it would cutthe cost of >shipping. I live in Logan, any takers? Go ahead and reply off line.Jason Swan > > > From: "paul.blakley" > > Supplies > > > > What with relations between the US and China currentlybeing at a low > > perhaps now is the time to stock up onthe precious material........any > > politicians out there available forcomment ?....Paul > > Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com 218 Wallace Avenue Buffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home 716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.net bob@downandacross.com > from rcurry@ttlc.net WedApr 4 17:04:47 2001 Received: from mail.ttlc.net Apr A9EEC4210098; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:02:22 -0400 Message-ID:Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:07:36-0400 From: Reed Curry User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US;m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 Has anyone on the list a Montagne rod? I'd beinterested in what this different quad approach yields. I've never seen one,and I believe others may also be unaware of his design so Iput Schwiebert's description and drawing of his work under Extracts on mywebsite. -- Best regards, Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Special rates for Rodmakers' websitedesign from Dan Curry (dan@ttlc.net) >FromGrhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 4 17:06:42 2001 Received: from imo- (mail_out_v29.14.) id w.60.d136a22 (26124); Wed, 4 Apr 2001 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 rmoon@ida.net CC: bhoy551@earthlink.net, owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN What about golfclubshaft epoxy? I am about to try this as a ferrule cement. Seems if it will takethe abuse of a golf swing it would be great for ferrules aswell. Bret > from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Apr 4 17:22:35 2001 Received: from slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net 0); 4 Apr 2001 22:22:30 -0000 Received: fromunknown (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) (63.228.199.15) by slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net User-Agent:Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Whoops! For those of you who don't know where Loganis (my Logan, at least), I'm in northern Utah. Sorry for the confusion... JasonWell, since you've suggested it... I was wondering ifthere is anyone on the list that would be interested in splitting an order forsome bamboo? I don't know if I can use a full bundle now,and it would cut the cost of shipping. I live in Logan, any takers? Go aheadand reply off line. Jason Swan > From: "paul.blakley" > What with relations between the US and China currently being at a low >perhaps now is the time to stock up on the preciousmaterial........any > politicians out there available for comment ?....Paul > from jourdoktorn@chello.se Wed Apr 4 17:27:36 2001 wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ; Thu, 5 Apr 200100:27:28 +0200 Message-ID:Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 00:33:16 +0200 Re: Montagne rods References: Content-Type: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Reed, I have a mint Montagne 8ft3, 2 pieces. This rod isreally a rectangle built rod and not a square built. This rod is unique in everyway, from its skeleton reel seat with exposed bambooshaft to the beautifully machined brass ferrule plug. It is hard to find one ofthese beautiful rods today. I have compared this rod to acouple of Edwards Quads I own and the Montagne rod is extremely good in pinpoint casting and there is also a feeling of morestrength. Best Regards, Jan Nystrom Reed Curry wrote: > All, > Has anyoneon the list a Montagne rod? I'd be interested in what thisdifferent quad approach yields. I've never seen one, and I believe > othersmay also be unaware of his design so I put Schwiebert's >description and drawing of his work under Extracts on my website. > -- >Best regards, > Reed > http://www.overmywaders.com/ >Special rates for Rodmakers' website design from Dan Curry (dan@ttlc.net) from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 17:31:302001 Received: from web11403.mail.yahoo.com (web11403.mail.yahoo.com Received: from [151.197.118.37] by web11403.mail.yahoo.com;Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:31:30 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:31:30 -0700 Ralph W Moon , bhoy551@earthlink.net Cc: darrell@rockclimbing.org, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 --ListProc(tm) by CREN Ralph, Where do I get urethane bond (hint ofdesperation here)? Bill Walters --- Ralph W Moon wrote: >Whenever someone like John tells you something, > believe him!!!He knows. I >still think that ferrule cement is nothing but a > realbummer. I have seen so > many loose ferrules with the dry powdery remainsof > ferrule cement puffing out > like a locomotive.Urethane bond is still the very > best ferrule adhesive you > can use. Itexpands slightly making a more secure > fit and filling voids.It > stays slightly flexible so that you don't get a hard > dried plug with no >adhesion as you do with epoxies. It releases with > heatat a temperature > unlikely to be reached by natural means, but still > isbelow the danger point > for bamboo. > > > Bill Hoy wrote: >I archived a post from John Zimny (I think) which > said that hot meltglued > > ferrules needed pinning. Is this correct? > > > >Bill > > > > At 11:33 AM 4/4/2001 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote: > > >Ferruleglue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue > and it is still made www.vfish.net/store1.htm look under supplies > > > > > >I've foundthat 5 minute epoxy also releases with > heat when used on > > >ferrules. >Darrell > > >www.vfish.net > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu > Behalf Of Bill Walters > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:24 AM > > I was just removing some ferrules from a South > Bend > > >and got tothinking. What did the rodmakers of > the 40s > > >and50s use for ferrule glue that is still so > > >tenacious yet softens with theapplication of > heat > > > from a heat gun? Seems like the get with epoxy and the heat resistance that > allowsit > > >to only be removed with a heat source, like a > heat > > >gun, andstrength and shrink resistance. Is there > > >anything outthere currently that meets these > > >criteria? > > > > > >Bill Walters > > > __________________________________________________ > > >DoYou Yahoo!? > > >Get email at your own domain withYahoo! Mail. > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ >__________________________________________________ Do YouYahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Apr4 17:38:08 2001 Received: from mailhost.lanecc.edu (mailhost.lanecc.edu Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:36:15 -0700 printable to 8bit by wugate.wustl.edu id f34Mc8S06124 ListProc(tm) by CREN Does anyone know how long it takes for thermalcement to turn to powder? Is the Urethane Bond glue asimilar/same product as the Elmers Probond Polyurethane glue? Thanks. from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Apr 4 18:13:192001 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server for Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:12:32 -0700 From: Darrell Lee Subject: RE: Montagne darrell@rockclimbing.org Sender:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN What an interestingconcept... you could have two tapers on a single rod... Darrell www.vfish.net -----Original Message----- From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Jan Nystråm Sent: Wednesday, Montagne rods Hi Reed, I have a mint Montagne 8ft3, 2pieces. This rod is really a rectangle built rod and not a square built. This rodis unique in every way, from its skeleton reel seat withexposed bamboo shaft to the beautifully machined brass ferrule plug. It ishard to find one of these beautiful rods today. I havecompared this rod to a couple of Edwards Quads I own and the Montagne rodis extremely good in pin point casting and there is alsoa feeling of more strength. Best Regards, Jan Nystrom Reed Curry wrote: >All, > Has anyone on the list a Montagne rod? I'd beinterested in what this > different quad approach yields. I've never seen one,and I believe > others may also be unaware of his designso I put Schwiebert's > description and drawing of his work under Extracts onmy website. > -- > Best regards, > Reed >http://www.overmywaders.com/ > Special rates for Rodmakers' websitedesign from Dan Curry (dan@ttlc.net) >FromHomeyDKlown@att.net Wed Apr 4 18:19:23 2001 Received: frommtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 ;Wed, 4 Apr Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Mike, The choice of whichreel to put on your cane is, in my opinion, very subjective.I have Ryalls, Tetons, an Abel TR-Light, a Precision (made in Joisey no less!),a Pflueger, a Hardy Flyweight,a Ballan, and probablyothers that my severe case of CRS is preventing me from mentioning. Theyall go on various and sundry bamboo rods that I've madeand/or bought (as well as a few that aren't made of bamboo). I do, howeverlove the way my Ballan reel looks on a bamboo rod. Thebeauty of this hobby/obsession/disease is that YOU get to decide whatworks best for you. Ain't that what makes this so much fun?Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: fly reels? I know this isoff the rod making subject, but I was wondering what some of you guys thinka suitable MODERN fly reel make is for bamboorods. I have looked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish with old Hardys. Mike===== http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html__________________________________________________ Do YouYahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 418:26:23 2001 Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com Date:Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:25:07 -0500 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76[en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Glue References:Content-Type: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ooops, Gave out the old address. Here's the new one.Harry EASYPOXY@JUNO.COM Bill Walters wrote: > Harry, > The easypoxyaddress came back as undeliverable. > Do you haveanother way to contact him? > > Bill Walters > > --- Harry Boyd wrote: > >Ralph, > > Not to imply that your opinion needs anybacking > > up from me or anyone else, > > but I completely agree. EvenPliobond is better > > than the stick ferrule cement. I > >think that's what lots of the old makers used that > > still holds tight today.But Urethane Bond is great. Can't imagine why > >anyone would use anything > > else. Give it a try, folks. > > > > And beforeanyone asks, you can get it from Ron > > Cornell. Hisemail is > > easypoxy@compuserve.com > > > > There's a minimum order ofthree tubes, I think, > > at $3.75 each. If anyone > >orders some and wants to get rid of a tube or two, > > let me know. I'm downto about > > half a tube. > > > > Harry Boyd > > > >Ralph W Moon wrote: > > > > > Urethane bond is still the very best ferrule >adhesive you > > > can use. It expands slightlymaking a more secure > > fit and filling voids. It > > > stays slightly flexibleso that you don't get a > > hard dried plug with no > > >adhesion as you do with epoxies. It releases with > > heat at a temperature >unlikely to be reached by natural means, but still > >is below the danger point > > > for bamboo. > > > > -- > > Harry Boyd > > > >"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." > >http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods > > http://www.fbcwin.com/ OurChurch > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > Do YouYahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo!Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saithunto them, I go a fishing..." http://www.canerods.com/Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church > from rsgould@cmc.netWed Apr 4 18:26:24 2001 Received: from gttw901 (rsvp-208-187-12-91.ac03.tkwl.eli.net Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Date: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Right on Ralph!! Ray - ---- ; "rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: FerruleGlue > Whenever someone like John tells yousomething, believe him!!!He knows. I > still think that ferrule cement isnothing but a real bummer. I have seen so > many looseferrules with the dry powdery remains of ferrule cement puffing out > like alocomotive. Urethane bond is still the very best ferruleadhesive you > can use. It expands slightly making a more secure fit andfilling voids. It > stays slightly flexible so that you don't geta hard dried plug with no > adhesion as you do with epoxies. It releases withheat at a temperature > unlikely to be reached by naturalmeans, but still is below the danger point > for bamboo. > > > Bill Hoy wrote:I archived a post from John Zimny (I think)which said that hot melt glued > > ferrules needed pinning. Is this correct? >Bill > > > > At 11:33 AM 4/4/2001 -0700, DarrellLee wrote: > > >Ferrule glue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue and it is stillmade by > > >Flexcoat and Gudebrod and can be found atwww.vfish.net/store1.htm look under supplies > > > > > >I'vefound that 5 minute epoxy also releases with heat when usedon > > >ferrules. > > > > > >Darrell > > >www.vfish.net > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Bill Walters > > >Sent: Ferrule Glue > > > > > > > > >I was just removing someferrules from a South Bend > > >and got to thinking. What did the rodmakersof the 40s > > >and 50s use for ferrule glue that is stillso > > >tenacious yet softens with the application of heat > > > from a heatgun? Seems like the ideal glue for this > > >applicationneeds the flexibility you don't usually > > >get with epoxy and the heatresistance that allows it > > >to only be removed with a heatsource, like a heat > > >gun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is there > >anything out there currently that meets these > >criteria? > > > > > >Bill Walters > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >DoYou Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Apr4 18:29:12 2001 Received: from ns1.net-gate.com (root@netgate2- X-Sender: fiveside@net-gate.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) contact cement which was the successor to Reed'sFerrule Flex. Anyone remember? Bill > from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Apr 418:29:51 2001 Received: from mailhost.cmc.net "rodmakers" References:Subject: Re:Ferrule Glue Date: Wed, 4 Apr rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Bill, you can get the U-bondglue from easypoxy industrial adhesives, 5485 NicholsRun , Limestone, N.Y. See easypoxy@juno.com Ray Gould ----- Original ; Cc: ; ; "rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:31 PM Subject: Re:Ferrule Glue > Ralph, > > Where do I get urethanebond (hint of desperation > here)? > > Bill Walters > > --- Ralph W Moonwrote: > > Whenever someone like John tells yousomething, > > believe him!!!He knows. I > > still think that ferrule cement isnothing but a > > real bummer. I have seen so > > manyloose ferrules with the dry powdery remains of > > ferrule cement puffingout > > like a locomotive. Urethane bond is still the very >best ferrule adhesive you > > can use. It expands slightly making a moresecure > > fit and filling voids. It > > stays slightly flexibleso that you don't get a hard > > dried plug with no > > adhesion as you dowith epoxies. It releases with > > heat at a temperature > >unlikely to be reached by natural means, but still > > is below the dangerpoint > > for bamboo. > > > > > > Bill Hoy wrote: > > > > > Iarchived a post from John Zimny (I think) which > > said that hot melt gluedferrules needed pinning. Is this correct? > > > > >Bill > > > > > > At 11:33 AM 4/4/2001 - 0700, Darrell Lee wrote: > > >Ferrule glue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue > > and it isstill made by > > > >Flexcoat and Gudebrod and can be found at > > > > > > >www.vfish.net/store1.htm look under supplies > > > >I've found that 5 minute epoxy also releases with > > heat when usedon > > > >ferrules. > > > > > > > >Darrell > > >www.vfish.net > > > > > > > >----- Original Message----- > > > >From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:24 AM > > just removing some ferrules from a South > > Bend > > >and got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of > > the 40s > > > >and 50suse for ferrule glue that is still so > > > >tenacious yetsoftens with the application of > > heat > > > > from a heat gun? Seems likethe ideal glue for > > this > > > >application needs theflexibility you don't > > usually > > > >get with epoxy and the heat resistancethat > > allows it > > > >to only be removed with a heatsource, like a > > heat > > > >gun, and strength and shrink resistance. Isthere > > > >anything out there currently that meets these > >criteria? > > > > > > > >Bill Walters > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >DoYou Yahoo!? > > > >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > >__________________________________________________ > Do YouYahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo!Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > from robert.kope@prodigy.netWed Apr 4 18:32:06 2001 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with f34NTWP203808; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:29:32 -0400 Message-ID:From: "Robert Subject: Re:"Degluing" the blank Date: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook strongly recommend removing the enamel before finalplaning. I know that many books recommend removal of most of the enamel,leaving a thin layer (a thousandth or so) to be sandedoff with the glue. I prefer to scrape the enamel off of the rough planedstrips right after heat treating. I use a paint scraper with a flatblade that removes all the enamel from the center of the strips and leavessome on the edges. This gives a nice flat surface to seatagainst the planing form for final planing, and I think it results in bettercontrol of the angles. I don't worry about removing some ofthe power fibers at this point because there is little if any loss of strength inthe power fibers in the outer 10-15 thousandthsaccording to Bob Milliard's tests. I also think I recall an analysis by Garrisondemonstrating that you get more strength from ahexagon that has had the sides flattened by removing power fibers in thecenter that you do from a hexagon with rounded sides andthe same flat-to-flat dimensions. Most of the enamel on the edges of thestrip will be removed by final planing except on the butts,and you get better accuracy in the glued-up blank by eliminating thevariability in enamel thickness from final planing. A second tip isthat with Probond PU you can remove the string after 16-24 hrs and scrapethe excess glue off before it's fully cured. The glue ismuch easier to remove at this stage than it is after it's fully cured. If youwait a couple of days to remove the glue, you will probablyneed to use a file or sandpaper. I use a dull scraper to reduce the chance ofremoving additional cane, and rebind the strips afterscraping to keep pressure on while the glue finishes curing. I don't know ifthis is necessary, but it only takes a couple of minutes andI would rather not take chances. Then I sand off any glue I missed with thescraper a couple of days later. -- Robert Kope ----- Subject: "Degluing" the blank > Well, thinks are goingquite well for this Newby. The first rod is planed, > glued, and now out of thestring. It appears to be straight, gluing has > definitelyturned limp strips into something like a flyrod. I used Probond > PU glue, easyto use, seems to have done the job, time will tell. Myquestion now is about methods for cleaning up the blank. I am sure sandingwould work, but seems tedious. Filing seemsdangerous. I was thinking of > using my cabinet scraper. Is a turned scraperan effective tool for > removing dried glue and enamel?Also, once the blank was glued it occurred to me that I planed my stripsto > final dimension. Won't removing the enamel now putthem a hair under the > target dimension? How thick is enamel? And howmuch material gets removed > to get rid of the enamel? > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 4 18:35:37 2001 Received: from Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:35:31 -0700 Message-ID:Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:34:24 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue References: fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) a golf course all during High School and College. SoI've probably built literally thousands of golf clubs. All we ever used in theClub House was Hardware store epoxy. Golf Club shaftepoxy is a relatively new development. There was no such thing back when Iwas in school. I wonder what it really is.... There's nodoubt in my mind that it's another epoxy just packaged by the folks atGolfsmith. And it's worth noting that all the best golf clubswere pinned back in the days when woods were wooden, and irons weren'tmade of beryllium copper. (I still play with HoganPersimmon woods and forged irons -- can you tell?) My friend Randall Gregoryuses it (golf club epoxy) with good results so far.Maybe he'll chime in on the list. And I think Jack Howell's recommends it. Butif you think about it, the stresses on a ferrule are verydifferent than on a golf club. We pull sections apart, and expect the sectionsto flex. Golf shafts inside the head don't flex at all, andyou're not supposed to pull on the heads. If you try it out, please give us areport. Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: > What aboutgolfclub shaft epoxy? I am about to try this as a ferrule cement. > Seems ifit will take the abuse of a golf swing it would be great forferrules as well. > Bret -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go afishing..." http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church > from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Apr4 18:53:32 2001 Received: from 2001 19:53:16 -0400 Message-Id:X-Sender: bmaulucci@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version robert.kope@prodigy.net From: Bob Maulucci Subject: Re: "Degluing" the References: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Robert: I almost always dothe same on hex rods, but on the quads, there has beensome talk on the Morgan Handmill list about not removing the center powerfibers. Per Brandin has stated that he leaves his rods"round" so as not to loose critical power in the middle caused by sanding orscraping the blank flat. I guess the geometry issignificantly different enough to justify not scraping the blank on a quad. Ihave been scraping them with good success, but I wonderif anyone on the list has any thoughts on this? Best regards, Bob At 04:12PM 4/4/2001 -0700, you wrote: >I don't worry aboutremoving some of >the power fibers at this point because there is little ifany loss of >strength in the power fibers in the outer 10-15thousandths according to Bob >Milliard's tests. I also think I recall an analysis strength from a hexagon that has had the >sides flattened by removingpower fibers in the center that you do from a >hexagon withrounded sides and the same >flat-to-flat dimensions. Most of the >enamel onthe edges of the strip will be removed by final planing except onthe butts, and you get better accuracy in the glued-up blank by eliminatingthe variability in enamel thickness from final planing. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Apr 4 19:04:36 2001 f3504ZS10297 sender ) Subject: Re: fly reels? --------------F90C2BCA3C6DDD3002C17661 Tony, The CFO along with the Hardy Lightweights are my favorites.Especially the Flyweight and CFO II. I am not crazy about a disc drag ona Trout Reel. Marty Tony Miller wrote: MikeI know I'm gonna get razzed for this one but,I like the Orvis CFOspring and pawl reels.They were designed by Hardy. And I thinkvalueverses dollar they are a good workhorse. Yethave enough finesse smooth drag.They look classic to me.And No guys I don't own stock inOrvis LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --------------F90C2BCA3C6DDD3002C17661 Tony, The CFO along with the Hardy Lightweights are my favorites. Especiallythe Flyweight and CFO II. I am not crazy about a disc drag on a Trout Reel.MartyTony Miller wrote: MikeIknow I'm gonna get razzed for this one but,Ilike the Orvis CFO spring and pawl reels.Theywere designed by Hardy. And I think valueversesdollar they are a good workhorse. Yethaveenough finesse for cane rods. They are light,machined from bar stock,and have a smooth drag.Theylook classic to me.And Noguys I don't own stock in Orvis LOLTonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --------------F90C2BCA3C6DDD3002C17661-- from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Apr 4 19:06:47 2001 f3506kS10488 sender ) Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bill, The product is called Ferrul-Tite. Golden Witch has it as doArchery supplies. I use it on all my rods. Marty Bill Walters wrote: I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Apr 4 19:10:11 2001 f350ABS10752 sender ) Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bill, Thats what they say but I don't and either did Granger. I never had aproblem with the hot melt (Ferrule-Tite). Marty Bill Hoy wrote: I archived a post from John Zimny (I think) which said that hot melt gluedferrules needed pinning. Is this correct? Bill At 11:33 AM 4/4/2001 -0700, Darrell Lee wrote:Ferrule glue... in stick form, is a hot melt glue and it is still made byFlexcoat and Gudebrod and can be found at www.vfish.net/store1.htm look under supplies I've found that 5 minute epoxy also releases with heat when used onferrules. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:24 AM Subject: Ferrule Glue I was just removing some ferrules from a South Bendand got to thinking. What did the rodmakers of the 40sand 50s use for ferrule glue that is still sotenacious yet softens with the application of heat from a heat gun? Seems like the ideal glue for thisapplication needs the flexibility you don't usuallyget with epoxy and the heat resistance that allows itto only be removed with a heat source, like a heatgun, and strength and shrink resistance. Is thereanything out there currently that meets thesecriteria? Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from cadams46@juno.com Wed Apr 4 19:11:13 2001 f350BDS10889 20:11:06 EDT Subject: Aluminum Ferrules Sorry guys that was supposed to go to Brad Love not the whole list. Iapoligize.C.R. Adams from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Apr 4 19:15:02 2001 f350EwS11182 sender ) Subject: Re: Montagne rods Reed, I know Carmine Lisella has or at least had one. They are not square butrather a rectangle. Marty Reed Curry wrote: All,Has anyone on the list a Montagne rod? I'd be interested in what thisdifferent quad approach yields. I've never seen one, and I believeothers may also be unaware of his design so I put Schwiebert'sdescription and drawing of his work under Extracts on my website.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/Special rates for Rodmakers' website design from Dan Curry(dan@ttlc.net) from timklein@qwest.net Wed Apr 4 19:22:14 2001 f350MDS11545 (63.225.240.252) Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. I'm using Bill Ballan's reels on all of my cane rods now. I just really likethe classic styling and simplicity of his reels. They're a little heavierthan most of the current ultra lightweight reels that are out there and thathelps balance out a cane rod. They're a little pricey but he sometimes sellsthem at a discount on e-bay (that's where I got 2 of the 4 that I own). Before I picked up my smallest Ballan, I used one of the Ross Colorado reelson a couple of rods. It's got a nice simple design and it's not too hightech looking for cane. The Colorado's, like the Ballan reels, don't haveadjustable drag. I prefer reels that way and I wouldn't hesitate to use oneagain. ---Tim from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 4 19:35:39 2001 f350ZcS12199 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule Glue Harry Boyd wrote:(I still play with Hogan Persimmon woods and forged irons -- can you tell?) Harry there are still a few of us out here who will tell you the the sweetsound andcrisp feel of those Hogan woods are so far superior to the ugly, metal lookand dullthud you get with a metal wood as to recall the joy of not having to fish withaplastic stick--just one of those wood poles.Ralph from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Apr 4 19:43:13 2001 f350hDS12498 f350gbu30930;Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:42:37 -0500 Subject: Re: "Degluing" the blank I have scraped the enamel side before finish taper since I started makingrods.In my mind, I cant see how an accurate measurement can be kept if theenamel sideis not flat with the 60* groove in the form. I am careful to just scrape thetopof the enamel to about the width of the finished strip. After heat treating,thestrip is tapered some and then the enamel is scraped. I find that doing it thisway gives me very accurate blanks. No allowance needed as the strip is thesizeof the taper you set.I have used several types of glue and find no problem removing the residualglueif the stick is wiped down after binding to remove excess glue.It is my way of thinking and that is not very much.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Robert:I almost always do the same on hex rods, but on the quads, there has beensome talk on the Morgan Handmill list about not removing the center powerfibers. Per Brandin has stated that he leaves his rods "round" so as not toloose critical power in the middle caused by sanding or scraping the blankflat. I guess the geometry is significantly different enough to justify notscraping the blank on a quad. I have been scraping them with good success,but I wonder if anyone on the list has any thoughts on this?Best regards,Bob At 04:12 PM 4/4/2001 -0700, you wrote:I don't worry about removing some ofthe power fibers at this point because there is little if any loss ofstrength in the power fibers in the outer 10-15 thousandths according toBobMilliard's tests. I also think I recall an analysis by Garrisondemonstrating that you get more strength from a hexagon that has hadthesides flattened by removing power fibers in the center that you do from ahexagon with rounded sides and the sameflat-to-flat dimensions. Most of theenamel on the edges of the strip will be removed by final planing exceptonthe butts, and you get better accuracy in the glued-up blank byeliminatingthe variability in enamel thickness from final planing. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from goodaple@tcac.net Wed Apr 4 19:43:34 2001 f350hYS12615 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensed1ebd4f8b91132ed01cf0e3e933da025) 0500 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Organization: Harry and all, Yes I do use shafting epoxy to mount ferrules. I like itthus far. Harry you are right about some golf shops using regular epoxy.Some still do. However the shop that I get mine from swears that it is aspecial formulation. It even comes in a special package. I have used this onseveral rods and have had absolutely no failures thus far. If I do I'll postit to the list. Good luck all, Randall Gregory NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bret, I've built way more golf clubs than I have fly rods. I worked at agolfcourse all during High School and College. So I've probably builtliterallythousands of golf clubs. All we ever used in the Club House was Hardwarestoreepoxy. Golf Club shaft epoxy is a relatively new development. There wasno suchthing back when I was in school. I wonder what it really is....There's nodoubt in my mind that it's another epoxy just packaged by the folks atGolfsmith. And it's worth noting that all the best golf clubs were pinnedbackin the days when woods were wooden, and irons weren't made of berylliumcopper.(I still play with Hogan Persimmon woods and forged irons -- can youtell?) My friend Randall Gregory uses it (golf club epoxy) with good resultssofar. Maybe he'll chime in on the list. And I think Jack Howell'srecommends it. But if you think about it, the stresses on a ferrule are verydifferent thanon a golf club. We pull sections apart, and expect the sections to flex.Golfshafts inside the head don't flex at all, and you're not supposed to pullon theheads. If you try it out, please give us a report. Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: What about golfclub shaft epoxy? I am about to try this as a ferrulecement.Seems if it will take the abuse of a golf swing it would be great forferrules as well.Bret --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from briansr@point-net.com Wed Apr 4 20:20:28 2001 f351KHS13881 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:18:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Reels BobYou are right about Dave Robichaud's reels,especially his Salmon reelswhich are outstanding.You forgot Bogdan's reels which have are unique in theway one can change a spool with just a dime! (which is probably all thechange you'll get after dumping a couple of grand for one of his reels)All that being said ANY reel looks good on a Cane rod !!Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reels Bob Most of the the classic reels being made today either don't allow changingspools or it is a pain to do so streamside. However, a few that do permitspools changes that can be done streamside (I advise never changing aspoolmidstream) are the Adams and the Hardy Jr St George, which changespoolswith alever on the spool, just like the CFOs and Hardy Lightweight series.Additionally, the Ballan Trout Classic series that has a thumbscrew toremovethe spools (these are the ones I use for silk lines since I change to anon-silk line when I want). Finally, the Hardy Perfect, the Winstonclassic,the Winston Hardy Perfect copy, a few Ballans, some Robichauds, someTedGodfrey reels and some Saraciones have removable backs that oncetwistedoffallow spool changes. You can buy extra spools for the Peerless reels butyouhave to disassemble them to change the spools. theones which had the removable backs (Robichauds are no longer being made)andthe Perfect are my choice for both quality of use and ease of changingspools.The easiest by far are the Adams and Hardy Jr St George. Bob Bob Maulucci wrote: I have a Hardy Bougle IV, and it is great except that changes spools isapain in the butt section. It does balance nicely on a 7-8" cane rod. Ialsohave a Ross Colorado that is nice for the money. Looks rather Hardylike. I must admit that the new Bacon reels, the Adams, the Ballans, theSaraciones, and the Peerless have always looked right on cane. I wouldliketo get one of those, but the Hardy is nice, I don't know. Of the above reels, which ones are the easiest to change spools on? Thatwould be nice for silk line use, since I could easily switch linesbetweenmy 4 and 5 weights as well as using PVC lines in a pinch. Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Apr 4 20:40:00 2001 f351duS14407 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:39:39 -0400 Subject: Re: "Degluing" the blank Hi Tony: Maybe since Per uses the Hand Mill with its 15/16 rounded anvils, he can get good measurements with keeping the strips a rounded. I agree that with regular forms it seems necessary to flatten. I think it does really help the measurements. In essence. you have just flattened three sides along their lengths. Makes sense to me.Best regards,Bob At 07:45 PM 4/4/2001 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:I have scraped the enamel side before finish taper since I started making rods.In my mind, I cant see how an accurate measurement can be kept if the enamel sideis not flat with the 60* groove in the form. I am careful to just scrape the topof the enamel to about the width of the finished strip. After heat treating, thestrip is tapered some and then the enamel is scraped. I find that doing it thisway gives me very accurate blanks. No allowance needed as the strip is the sizeof the taper you set.I have used several types of glue and find no problem removing the residual glueif the stick is wiped down after binding to remove excess glue.It is my way of thinking and that is not very much.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from saweiss@flash.net Wed Apr 4 20:50:13 2001 f351oCS14861 f351oCS129764 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue What about golfclub shaft epoxy Bret,I have used it on over 20 rods. No problems. The times I needed to removeferrules to remake broken tips, they came off with reasonable amounts ofheat.Steve from caneman@clnk.com Wed Apr 4 21:37:28 2001 f352bRS16035 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:37:38 -0500 Subject: Fw: fly reels? Guys, There's a relatively new company out there that deserves a look. TheDorber Group. They had reels at the Sowbug Roundup this past weekend inMtnHome AR, and I gotta tell you, I was EXTREMELY impressed... quite, smooth,the disc drag reel is as smooth as many MUCH more expensive ones. Thingis,their highest priced reel at the show, and it was a beautiful reel, was$67.50. This company is based in Flippin, Arkansas, and their url ishttp://www.dorber.com and it is well worth looking at. They do have onemore expensive reel on the site ($72 I think), but for a disc drag reel,that's pretty darn reasonable. All of their reels were nice looking, butthe AF series was a very nice machined aluminum reel... and as smooth assilk...As usual, no financial interest, just like good equipment! Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: fly reels? On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Tony Miller wrote: MikeI know I'm gonna get razzed for this one but, Don't count on it. I like the Orvis CFO spring and pawl reels.They were designed by Hardy. Designed by Bogdan, built by Hardy, sold by Orvis.(it's a BIG bed!) And I think valueverses dollar they are a good workhorse. Yethave enough finesse for cane rods. They are light,machined from bar stock,and have a smooth drag.They look classic to me. The redesigned Hardy Marquis deserves a look if you are considering a CFO. But the original question was for a modern reel which presumably means adisc drag? Didn't see FlyLogic Optimum, AYR or Galvan mentioned yet.Worth a look. I've been fishing a Bacon so far this season on my 3wt. Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com from brewer@teleport.com Wed Apr 4 21:38:28 2001 f352cSS16154 Subject: Bamboo Rodmaker's Forum I would like to invite members of the rodmaker's list to join the Bamboo =Rodmaker's Forum. It is hoped that this forum will encourage mentorship =and help keep the art of bamboo rod building alive and growing! This =virtual gathering place was created to allow bamboo flyrod builders to =communicate without having to use a listserve or E-Mail (except to sign =up). Your e-mail address will never be used for any purpose or =given/rented/sold to any third party. There are absolutely no underlying =commercial interests, sponsorships, or other motivations in creating =this forum, other than to have a place on the web devoted exclusively to = Advantages: The forum features a repository for tapers, a gallery for posting images =of bamboo rods, and an area for member introductions and classifieds. =More areas such as supplier and tool provider lists will be added as the =need dictates. I have used these forums (for other topics) and they are =great when a group of people begin to put their ideas, know-how, and =images on them. This forum allows members to post new threads on a particular topic. =Other members may reply to that topic or ignore it without ever looking =at all the replys it may have. There is never a need to take any action =to "stop" your mail when you go out of town for a few days, as e-mails =are not sent to members, rather members look at the site at their =convenience. The site is operated by an amateur bamboo rod maker. I am certainly no =authority on making bamboo rods, but I have made them and continue to do =so on a hobby basis. I do have some small understanding of what a person = Disadvantages: It's brand new and there are no posts to read unless you join and use =the forum. Without participation, the site will have little value (and it will have =no reason to exist), so I offer it to the bamboo rodmaking community at =face value. Take a look and see if this is something you would like to =use! I would welcome your comments. Thanks, Randy BrewerEugene, Oregon Bamboo Rodmaker's Forum:http://pub57.ezboard.com/bbamboorodmakersforum P.S. If this post is not something you are interested in, please forgive =the intrusion. I would like to invite members of the = list to join the Bamboo Rodmaker's Forum. It is hoped that this forum = encourage mentorship and help keep the art of bamboo rod building alive = growing! This virtual gathering place was created to allow bamboo flyrod = builders to communicate without having to use a listserve or E-Mail = given/rented/sold to any third party. There are absolutely no underlying = forum, other than to have a place on the web devoted exclusively to = makers. Advantages: The forum features a repository for = gallery for posting images of bamboo rods, and an area for member = other topics) and they are great when a group of people begin to put = This forum allows members to post new= particular topic. Other members may reply to that topic or ignore it = is never a need to take any action to "stop" your mail when you go out = site at their convenience. The site is operated by an amateur = maker. I am certainly no authority on making bamboo rods, but I have = and continue to do so on a hobby basis. I do have some small = Disadvantages: It's brand new and there are no posts = unless you join and use the forum. Without participation, the site will = value (and it will have no reason to exist), so I offer it to the bamboo = rodmaking community at face value. Take a look and see if this is = would like to use! I would welcome your comments. Thanks, Randy BrewerEugene, Oregon Bamboo Rodmaker'sForum:http://pub57.ezbo=ard.com/bbamboorodmakersforum P.S. If this post is not something you = interested in, please forgive the intrusion. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 4 21:49:19 2001 f352nIS16637 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ralph, Yep and just like the sound of a wooden baseball bat, ah nothing better than that sound.Bret from GriffinJohn@msn.com Wed Apr 4 22:31:58 2001 f353VvS17859 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:31:53 -0700 Subject: Reel Testimony; Pflueger Medalist FILETIME=[F58D8510:01C0BD80] Having just read about someone afraid of being razzed about liking click = I like the old Pflueger Medalist reels. When I took up fly fishing (just out of high school), Pfluegers were stil=l for sale, but not cool. Fiberglass and graphite rods were cool, as were=SA Hardy knockoffs. More recently, looking for reels to balance cane, I've acquired twenty or=so Pfluegers. A few notes: - Balance is Key Early on, while busily complaining that the cane rods I had refinished we=re SO heavy, someone wisely suggested I make sure I was properly balancin=g the rod with reel. Should balance at the point your thumb naturally mee=ts the grip. Whew...and what a difference it makes! The old Medalists see=m to hit this cane balance practically spot on. And if you really get int=o the balance thing, you'll discover that the old Medalists actually prov= ead birdshot and wadding, until perfect balance is achieved.." All US made Pfluegers are fine; the older ones are nicer. A few Japanese =knock offs were made during the final years, after Pflueger sold out to S=hakespeare. Some idiot son in law sold the Pflueger name to the Koreans a=bout 10 years ago. Avoid all "new" Pflueger stuff like the plague. Its th=e Fenwick story all over again. - Get the Right Size Smallest is the 1492. This is the only Pflueger Medalist with click drag = 1492 1/2 has a wider reel; same as all Medalist sizes. Extra spools are e=asily had. The 1492 seems perfect for a 7' 4 wt cane rod. Next is 1494 - =a great 5/6 wt reel, with a superb drag. The 1495 is ideal for 6/7 wt, a=nd the excellent 1498 for 7/8 wt and above. If you're in to salt water bi=g game, the Pflueger Medalist Supreme is the next step up. Works great fo=r False Albacore, as an example. - Price is Nice US made Medalists are still available in good shape for $30 - $40; more f=or the old sculptured pillar/round guide versions. And these are excellen=t quality, eminently fishable, durable reels - far better than anything n=ew currently on the market for less than $150, IMHO. So, there you have it. Think of Medalist reels like Granger rods - excell= John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reels BobYou are right about Dave Robichaud's reels,especially his Salmon reelswhich are outstanding.You forgot Bogdan's reels which have are unique in =theway one can change a spool with just a dime! (which is probably all thechange you'll get after dumping a couple of grand for one of his reels)All that being said ANY reel looks good on a Cane rod !!Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reels Bob Most of the the classic reels being made today either don't allow chang=ingspools or it is a pain to do so streamside. However, a few that do per=mitspools changes that can be done streamside (I advise never changing aspoolmidstream) are the Adams and the Hardy Jr St George, which changespool=swith alever on the spool, just like the CFOs and Hardy Lightweight series.Additionally, the Ballan Trout Classic series that has a thumbscrew toremovethe spools (these are the ones I use for silk lines since I change to anon-silk line when I want). Finally, the Hardy Perfect, the Winstonclassic,the Winston Hardy Perfect copy, a few Ballans, some Robichauds, someTe=dGodfrey reels and some Saraciones have removable backs that oncetwiste=doffallow spool changes. You can buy extra spools for the Peerless reels b=utyouhave to disassemble them to change the spools. theones which had the removable backs (Robichauds are no longer beingmade=)andthe Perfect are my choice for both quality of use and ease of changingspools.The easiest by far are the Adams and Hardy Jr St George. Bob Bob Maulucci wrote: I have a Hardy Bougle IV, and it is great except that changes spools =isapain in the butt section. It does balance nicely on a 7-8" cane rod. =Ialsohave a Ross Colorado that is nice for the money. Looks rather Hardylike. I must admit that the new Bacon reels, the Adams, the Ballans, theSaraciones, and the Peerless have always looked right on cane. I woul=dliketo get one of those, but the Hardy is nice, I don't know. Of the above reels, which ones are the easiest to change spools on? T=hatwould be nice for silk line use, since I could easily switch linesbetweenmy 4 and 5 weights as well as using PVC lines in a pinch. Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.comGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Having justre=ad about someone afraid of being razzed about liking click drag Hardy's f= n I took up fly fishing (just out of high school), Pfluegers were still f= More r=ecently, looking for reels to balance cane, I've acquired twenty or so Pf= Key= cane rods I had refinished were SO heavy, someone wisely suggested I mak=e sure I was properly balancing the rod with reel. Should balance at the =point your thumb naturally meets the grip. Whew...and what a difference i= spot on. And if you really get into the balance thing, you'll discover t=hat the old Medalists actually provide a cavity, under the spool logo cov=er, to "...fill with a measure of lead birdshot and wadding, until perfec= Be= o=lder ones are nicer. A few Japanese knock offs were made during the final= w sold the Pflueger name to the Koreans about 10 years ago. Avoid all "ne= &=nbsp; Smallest is the 1492. This is the only Pflueger Medalist=with click drag only. The 1492 1/2 has a wider reel; same as=all Medalist sizes. Extra spools are easily had. The 1492 seems perfect = superb drag. The 1495 is ideal for 6/7 wt, and the excellent 1498 for 7/8=wt and above. If you're in to salt water big game, the Pflueger Medalist= 40; more for the old sculptured pillar/round guide versions. And these ar=e excellent quality, eminently fishable, durable reels - far better than = Meda=list reels like Granger rods - excellent fishing tools even today. = ----= 9= .com; bmaulucci@adelphia.net Cc:= are righ= are outstanding.You forgot Bogdan's reels which have are unique in theway one can change a spool with just a dime! (which is probably all the=change you'll get after dumping a couple of grand for one of his reel= = PMSubj= classi= whi= (these = Robichauds,= backs = e= disassemble= class= the removable backs (Robichauds are no longer being George.= = = &g= bmau= Get y=our FREE download of MSN Explorer at =http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 4 22:37:22 2001 f353bLS18205 Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:37:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Okay, back to the subject after this, I promise. But I only use Balata golfballs,too. Preferably Titleist, # 1's, 100 compression. And I never use a yellowtee.Yellow tees are bad luck. Any ball on a yellow tee is going in the woods, thewater, orout of bounds. Harry obligatory rodmaking comment (semi) --- Seems almost strange that I'venever gotteninto gut leaders... Ralph W Moon wrote: Harry there are still a few of us out here who will tell you the the sweetsound andcrisp feel of those Hogan woods are so far superior to the ugly, metal lookand dullthud you get with a metal wood as to recall the joy of not having to fishwith aplastic stick--just one of those wood poles.Ralph --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from channer@frontier.net Wed Apr 4 23:01:19 2001 f3541IS19032 Subject: Re: fly reels? Dennis;Nah, the fun part is how much money you can throw at it!John Dennis Haftel wrote: Mike, The choice of which reel to put on your cane is, in my opinion, verysubjective. I have Ryalls, Tetons, an Abel TR-Light, a Precision (made inJoisey no less!), a Pflueger, a Hardy Flyweight,a Ballan, and probablyothers that my severe case of CRS is preventing me from mentioning. Theyall go on various and sundry bamboo rods that I've made and/or bought (aswell as a few that aren't made of bamboo). I do, however love the way myBallan reel looks on a bamboo rod. The beauty of this hobby/obsession/disease is that YOU get to decide whatworks best for you. Ain't that what makes this so much fun? Dennis -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:09 AM Subject: fly reels? I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from bh887@lafn.org Thu Apr 5 01:25:46 2001 f356PjS21912 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue I spent a day with Lou Graham, former professional clubmaker with theSeniorTour, a couple of years ago. Naturally, the subject was club making in allaspects. Lou is one of the best, and that is not only my opinion. Shock ofthe day was learning that he shafted ALL the clubs using 5 Minute epoxy!! Istill haven't mustered the nerve to try it, but Lou swore by it. Still, itseems it ought to work on ferrules. And it won't be too hard to remove witha heat gun. I remove shafts using a heat gun and it seems to do just fine,with no damage to graphite shafts. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bret, I've built way more golf clubs than I have fly rods. I worked at agolfcourse all during High School and College. So I've probably builtliterallythousands of golf clubs. All we ever used in the Club House was Hardwarestoreepoxy. Golf Club shaft epoxy is a relatively new development. There wasno suchthing back when I was in school. I wonder what it really is....There's nodoubt in my mind that it's another epoxy just packaged by the folks atGolfsmith. And it's worth noting that all the best golf clubs were pinnedbackin the days when woods were wooden, and irons weren't made of berylliumcopper.(I still play with Hogan Persimmon woods and forged irons -- can youtell?) My friend Randall Gregory uses it (golf club epoxy) with good resultssofar. Maybe he'll chime in on the list. And I think Jack Howell'srecommends it. But if you think about it, the stresses on a ferrule are verydifferent thanon a golf club. We pull sections apart, and expect the sections to flex.Golfshafts inside the head don't flex at all, and you're not supposed to pullon theheads. If you try it out, please give us a report. Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: What about golfclub shaft epoxy? I am about to try this as a ferrulecement.Seems if it will take the abuse of a golf swing it would be great forferrules as well.Bret --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from scan.oest@post.tele.dk Thu Apr 5 02:14:36 2001 f357EZS22732 Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:14:35 +0200 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= Subject: Sv: Ferrule Glue f357EaS22733 regards,carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue I spent a day with Lou Graham, former professional clubmaker with theSeniorTour, a couple of years ago. Naturally, the subject was club making in allaspects. Lou is one of the best, and that is not only my opinion. Shock ofthe day was learning that he shafted ALL the clubs using 5 Minute epoxy!! Istill haven't mustered the nerve to try it, but Lou swore by it. Still, itseems it ought to work on ferrules. And it won't be too hard to removewitha heat gun. I remove shafts using a heat gun and it seems to do just fine,with no damage to graphite shafts. Lee----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Cc: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:34 PMSubject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bret, I've built way more golf clubs than I have fly rods. I worked at agolfcourse all during High School and College. So I've probably builtliterallythousands of golf clubs. All we ever used in the Club House wasHardwarestoreepoxy. Golf Club shaft epoxy is a relatively new development. There wasno suchthing back when I was in school. I wonder what it really is....There's nodoubt in my mind that it's another epoxy just packaged by the folks atGolfsmith. And it's worth noting that all the best golf clubs were pinnedbackin the days when woods were wooden, and irons weren't made ofberylliumcopper.(I still play with Hogan Persimmon woods and forged irons -- can youtell?) My friend Randall Gregory uses it (golf club epoxy) with good resultssofar. Maybe he'll chime in on the list. And I think Jack Howell'srecommends it. But if you think about it, the stresses on a ferrule are verydifferent thanon a golf club. We pull sections apart, and expect the sections to flex.Golfshafts inside the head don't flex at all, and you're not supposed to pullon theheads. If you try it out, please give us a report. Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: What about golfclub shaft epoxy? I am about to try this as a ferrulecement.Seems if it will take the abuse of a golf swing it would be great forferrules as well.Bret --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from channer@frontier.net Thu Apr 5 02:17:47 2001 f357HkS22937 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Lee;I used Devcon in it's various permutations on the first 4 rods I made,guess what, they all failed. As far as i am concerned, Devcon productsare worthless for rodmaking. I have used both types of Accraglas sincethen without a failure and I have had occaision to remove a couple offerrules and they came off with heat without too much trouble.John Lee Freeman wrote: I spent a day with Lou Graham, former professional clubmaker with theSeniorTour, a couple of years ago. Naturally, the subject was club making in allaspects. Lou is one of the best, and that is not only my opinion. Shock ofthe day was learning that he shafted ALL the clubs using 5 Minute epoxy!! Istill haven't mustered the nerve to try it, but Lou swore by it. Still, itseems it ought to work on ferrules. And it won't be too hard to removewitha heat gun. I remove shafts using a heat gun and it seems to do just fine,with no damage to graphite shafts. Lee----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Cc: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:34 PMSubject: Re: Ferrule Glue Bret, I've built way more golf clubs than I have fly rods. I worked at agolfcourse all during High School and College. So I've probably builtliterallythousands of golf clubs. All we ever used in the Club House wasHardwarestoreepoxy. Golf Club shaft epoxy is a relatively new development. There wasno suchthing back when I was in school. I wonder what it really is....There's nodoubt in my mind that it's another epoxy just packaged by the folks atGolfsmith. And it's worth noting that all the best golf clubs were pinnedbackin the days when woods were wooden, and irons weren't made ofberylliumcopper.(I still play with Hogan Persimmon woods and forged irons -- can youtell?) My friend Randall Gregory uses it (golf club epoxy) with good resultssofar. Maybe he'll chime in on the list. And I think Jack Howell'srecommends it. But if you think about it, the stresses on a ferrule are verydifferent thanon a golf club. We pull sections apart, and expect the sections to flex.Golfshafts inside the head don't flex at all, and you're not supposed to pullon theheads. If you try it out, please give us a report. Harry Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: What about golfclub shaft epoxy? I am about to try this as a ferrulecement.Seems if it will take the abuse of a golf swing it would be great forferrules as well.Bret --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 5 03:11:17 2001 f358BBS23775 Subject: Re: Bamboo Supplies We get pretty good in depth coverage of current affairs out here especiallywhen it involves countries we trade with and it *appears* that because bothChina and the US have far to much money and mutually investment tied upChina is using this as a bargaining chip. Apparently not that many Chineseactually know any of this has happened unlike the embassy bombing last yearwhere the whole population knew about it. There is a suggestion the Chineseare keeping the news away from their people to prevent any nationalisticfeelings to make things a bit hot for China's leaders to be able to keepthings under control from a bargaining point of view. They don't wantdomestic pressure to get in the way of the machinations.Assuming the collision was in international air space all they really haveis the plane landed without permission. Apparently the US is due for the annual arms sale to Taiwan and while Chinaalways complains about this it doesn't normally have a US plane on it'starmac and 26 people all wanting to go home like it does this time. Taiwanwants some new missile system (I can't remember what it is exactly) but theUS has been reluctant to supply for fear of pushing China over the edge anddoing something about Taiwan. It's felt this time the US may well supplythis system and it's a short step from there to the arms umbrella whichwould prompt Taiwan to declare itself independent of China which reallywill be tricky.Add to this the fact the leadership in China is about to enter a phase ofchange and promotion with all the aspirants jockeying for position andwanting to sound as indignant as possible to help their position in theparty and you have the situation.The general feeling again from what I can gather is this will go on for along time but wont actually come to trade or military action.China needs trade more than they care about a lost pilot and plane. Theyprob already got all the info of all the electronics aboard the Orion as abonus for buying the nuclear technology so they prob don't even care thatmuch about the plane and what's in it either but it's too good anopportunity to pass up. Tony At 09:41 PM 4/4/01 +0100, paul.blakley wrote:What with relations between the US and China currently being at a lowperhaps now is the time to stock up on the precious material........anypoliticians out there available for comment ?....Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "I could never forgive a man who is both ugly and wrong." Workmate of my wife in reply to a boss found to be a proven dickhead. /*************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Apr 5 05:44:05 2001 f35Ai5S25118 sender ) Subject: Re: Reels I also like Ted Godfrey's reels of MD. They are very much like the Vom HoffePerfection reels of years past. Marty brian sturrock wrote: BobYou are right about Dave Robichaud's reels,especially his Salmon reelswhich are outstanding.You forgot Bogdan's reels which have are unique intheway one can change a spool with just a dime! (which is probably all thechange you'll get after dumping a couple of grand for one of his reels)All that being said ANY reel looks good on a Cane rod !!Cheers Brian----- Original Message -----From: "Robert S Williams" Cc: Sent: April 4, 2001 5:03 PMSubject: Re: Reels Bob Most of the the classic reels being made today either don't allowchangingspools or it is a pain to do so streamside. However, a few that do permitspools changes that can be done streamside (I advise never changing aspoolmidstream) are the Adams and the Hardy Jr St George, which changespoolswith alever on the spool, just like the CFOs and Hardy Lightweight series.Additionally, the Ballan Trout Classic series that has a thumbscrew toremovethe spools (these are the ones I use for silk lines since I change to anon-silk line when I want). Finally, the Hardy Perfect, the Winstonclassic,the Winston Hardy Perfect copy, a few Ballans, some Robichauds, someTedGodfrey reels and some Saraciones have removable backs that oncetwistedoffallow spool changes. You can buy extra spools for the Peerless reels butyouhave to disassemble them to change the spools. theones which had the removable backs (Robichauds are no longer beingmade)andthe Perfect are my choice for both quality of use and ease of changingspools.The easiest by far are the Adams and Hardy Jr St George. Bob Bob Maulucci wrote: I have a Hardy Bougle IV, and it is great except that changes spools isapain in the butt section. It does balance nicely on a 7-8" cane rod. Ialsohave a Ross Colorado that is nice for the money. Looks rather Hardylike. I must admit that the new Bacon reels, the Adams, the Ballans, theSaraciones, and the Peerless have always looked right on cane. I wouldliketo get one of those, but the Hardy is nice, I don't know. Of the above reels, which ones are the easiest to change spools on?Thatwould be nice for silk line use, since I could easily switch linesbetweenmy 4 and 5 weights as well as using PVC lines in a pinch. Thanks in advance,Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Apr 5 05:55:22 2001 f35AtLS25417 f35AtIrd025782; Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue Elmer's ProBond is the same, and so far the best I've tried.GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Apr 5 06:13:18 2001 f35BDIS25773 f35BCsn7021521;Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:12:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Supplies It's important that the Asian mind is allowed to save face also. They willgo to great lengths for this, regardless of what it costs them ! It looks asthough the Bush people are slowly allowing them to do just that !GMA from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Apr 5 07:07:15 2001 f35C7ES26470 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue In a message dated 4/5/01 2:18:29 AM Central Daylight Time, channer@frontier.net writes: This is an excuse to do this, but actually in my model airplane building for years I have used some pretty good Epoxy produced (packaged?)by Sig Mfg in Montezuma Ia. Also, Hobbypoxy. Sig comes in several types from 5 min to30 min and I think 60 min. so does Hobbypoxy. I have never seen the glue joint fail on any of these applications, including the occasional loop that ended slightly lower than intended. (The intention is to finish the loop ABOVE the ground!)The WOOD failed often enough, but I can't remember seeing the glue joint itself break. These are available at hobby shops and are pretty cheap, they come in convienent sizes and are pretty straightforward to use.In case you were wondering, no I don't have any interest other than I DO like to promote local companies and within those 100 miles of me (and in iowa, my much loved adopted home state).mark"The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and swill beer the rest of his life." ~ JVG from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Apr 5 07:18:58 2001 f35CIvS26880 Subject: Iowa! Hey you guys! I had the opportunity yesterday to drive to Oelwein,Iowa on business (I drive a semi, and we had a load of salt for Culligan) Maybe I shouldn't do this, but I would recommend anyone living near here to take a look. The Turkey and volga rivers are up a bit at the moment, and everything is dead and brown (Bad winter BAD BAD winter!) But talk about a beautiful place. I don't get up there as often as I would like, but it is beautiful. Like wisconsin, only less tourists. I was within a few miles of a trout hatchery, but was not too sure if I could get down their road and more importantly, find a place to turn around. Try explaining to your boss that you had to back a truck 10 miles down a narrow blacktop! Because youwanted to see a fish hatchery. (Wait a minute! I am talking about HARLEY here. He has done things that were dumber than that!)Iowa DNR has maps for free that show the "trout streams" and the DNRguys are really pretty decent in Iowa. (they sent me a map, a fishing guide and a stick on ruler just for asking) Licences are inexpensive too. NE corner of the state is about the best part. You will find me somewhere around there this spring and summer.markOn second thought, maybe you shoulddn't make too much of a thing about it. Iowa is a nice place, unspoiled and such. Not too busy, so if you sneak in occasionally, I won't say anything, but leave most of your friends at home. "The learned are not wise, and the wise are not learned" Lao Tzu "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will sit in a boat and swill beer the rest of his life." ~ JVG from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Apr 5 08:14:44 2001 f35DEhS28399 f35DEhK13260; Subject: Re: Reel Testimony; Pflueger Medalist On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, John Griffin wrote: SNIP - Get the Right Size Smallest is the 1492. This is the only Pflueger Medalist with click dragonly. Not true. The oldest 1494 (round line guard) has a click drag. Alsoisn't there a click 1394? Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Apr 5 08:14:51 2001 f35DEoS28406 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Reel Testimony; Pflueger Medalist John,Don't forget the Delite and the Golden West. These were classic, hard- rubber-sided reels with NS trim. Easily the equal of a Ballan (but not a Peerless).The 1498 is a large, heavy reel with a delightfully smooth drag. I use one often. Most of the other Pflueger Medalists, of which I have a "pflethora" (it felt right), have a coarse click reminiscent of a Buick with rocks in the transmission.Oh, another happy note, most of the Pfluegers were reversible whichisn't true of most old Hardy reels. [Exceptions: 1494, 1496, 1496 1/2]Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ John Griffin wrote: Having just read about someone afraid of being razzed about liking click drag Hardy's for cane, let me go waaaaaaay out on a limb: I like the old Pflueger Medalist reels. When I took up fly fishing (just out of high school), Pfluegers were still for sale, but not cool. Fiberglass and graphite rods were cool, as were SA Hardy knockoffs. More recently, looking for reels to balance cane, I've acquired twenty or so Pfluegers. A few notes: - Balance is Key Early on, while busily complaining that the cane rods I had refinished were SO heavy, someone wisely suggested I make sure I was properly balancing the rod with reel. Should balance at the point your thumb naturally meets the grip. Whew...and what a difference it makes! The old Medalists seem to hit this cane balance practically spot on. And if you really get into the balance thing, you'll discover that the old Medalists actually provide a cavity, under the spool logo cover, to "...fill with a measure of lead birdshot and wadding, until perfect balance is achieved.." - Older is Better. All US made Pfluegers are fine; the older ones are nicer. A few Japanese knock offs were made during the final years, after Pflueger sold out to Shakespeare. Some idiot son in law sold the Pflueger name to the Koreans about 10 years ago. Avoid all "new" Pflueger stuff like the plague. Its the Fenwick story all over again. - Get the Right Size Smallest is the 1492. This is the only Pflueger Medalist with click drag only. The 1492 1/2 has a wider reel; same as all Medalist sizes. Extra spools are easily had. The 1492 seems perfect for a 7' 4 wt cane rod. Next is 1494 - a great 5/6 wt reel, with a superb drag. The 1495 is ideal for 6/7 wt, and the excellent 1498 for 7/8 wt and above. If you're in to salt water big game, the Pflueger Medalist Supreme is the next step up. Works great for False Albacore, as an example. - Price is Nice US made Medalists are still available in good shape for $30 - $40; more excellent quality, eminently fishable, durable reels - far better than anything new currently on the market for less than $150, IMHO. So, there you have it. Think of Medalist reels like Granger rods - excellent fishing tools even today. John from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Apr 5 08:35:02 2001 f35DZ1S29562 f35DZ1h19492; Subject: Re: fly reels? On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bob Nunley wrote: Guys, There's a relatively new company out there that deserves a look. TheDorber Group. Strange...the pic (grandpa and young girl) on the front page of theirwebsite is owned by Versitex, a PA company. Or maybe dorbeR actually ownsVersitex? Regards, Bob from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Apr 5 08:53:37 2001 f35DraS00614 Subject: Re: Payne Parabolic --Message-Boundary-12631 To all who requested the Payne Parabolic Tapers here is a Data sheet with the info. As you know the Parabolics were made using the slow taper 2 piece butt pattern stick. With the parabolic tip pattern. I've built the 7'6" para with a Model 100 tip. It makes a good combo rod, try this combo I think you will like it.Best Hal.Bacon --Message-Boundary-12631 The following section of this message contains a file attachment you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.>Fromteekay35@interlynx.net Thu Apr 5 10:14:29 2001 f35FESS04179 Subject: Re: Reel Testimony; Pflueger Medalist And the Pflueger #2094 Gem. ----------From: Reed Curry Cc: Rodmakers List Subject: Re: Reel Testimony; Pflueger MedalistDate: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:17 AM John,Don't forget the Delite and the Golden West. These were classic, hard- rubber-sided reels with NS trim. Easily the equal of a Ballan (but not a Peerless).The 1498 is a large, heavy reel with a delightfully smooth drag. I use one often. Most of the other Pflueger Medalists, of which I have a "pflethora" (it felt right), have a coarse click reminiscent of a Buick with rocks in the transmission.Oh, another happy note, most of the Pfluegers were reversible whichisn't true of most old Hardy reels. [Exceptions: 1494, 1496, 1496 1/2]Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ John Griffin wrote: Having just read about someone afraid of being razzed about likingclick drag Hardy's for cane, let me go waaaaaaay out on a limb: I like the old Pflueger Medalist reels. When I took up fly fishing (just out of high school), Pfluegers were still for sale, but not cool. Fiberglass and graphite rods were cool,as were SA Hardy knockoffs. More recently, looking for reels to balance cane, I've acquired twenty or so Pfluegers. A few notes: - Balance is Key Early on, while busily complaining that the cane rods I had refinished were SO heavy, someone wisely suggested I make sure I was properly balancing the rod with reel. Should balance at the point your thumb naturally meets the grip. Whew...and what a difference it makes! Theold Medalists seem to hit this cane balance practically spot on. And if you really get into the balance thing, you'll discover that the old Medalists actually provide a cavity, under the spool logo cover, to "...fill with a measure of lead birdshot and wadding, until perfect balance is achieved.." - Older is Better. All US made Pfluegers are fine; the older ones are nicer. A fewJapanese knock offs were made during the final years, after Pflueger sold out to Shakespeare. Some idiot son in law sold the Pflueger name to theKoreans about 10 years ago. Avoid all "new" Pflueger stuff like the plague. Its the Fenwick story all over again. - Get the Right Size Smallest is the 1492. This is the only Pflueger Medalist with clickdrag only. The 1492 1/2 has a wider reel; same as all Medalist sizes. Extra spools are easily had. The 1492 seems perfect for a 7' 4 wt cane rod. Next is1494 - a great 5/6 wt reel, with a superb drag. The 1495 is ideal for 6/7wt, and the excellent 1498 for 7/8 wt and above. If you're in to salt water big game, the Pflueger Medalist Supreme is the next step up. Works great for False Albacore, as an example. - Price is Nice US made Medalists are still available in good shape for $30 - $40; more excellent quality, eminently fishable, durable reels - far better than anything new currently on the market for less than $150, IMHO. So, there you have it. Think of Medalist reels like Granger rods - excellent fishing tools even today. John from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Apr 5 10:21:46 2001 f35FLjS04608 Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:21:36 -0700 Subject: Re: fly reels? BP2, The dorBer folks are good guys. I see them every year at a couple ofshows Ido. They've been making graphite rods for others for a long time, anddecidednot long ago to branch out on their own, if I remember correctly. Their reels are imported, from Taiwan I think. I can't say how they willlast, or how they're made, but they really look nice. I saw a couple that BobNunley picked up, and one Ken Cole grabbed. They definitely look good. Andtheyfeel solid. And for the price, they'll be hard to beat. If I didn't alreadyhave a few reels I'm trying to sell, I would have picked one up for myself. It kinda bugs me that our mindset often equates high price withdesirability. No one would buy my rods at $xxx, but double the price, and allofa sudden the rods are highly desirable. It's never made sense to me.Needless to say, that's just plain dumb. workout on one of my rods, and one of Randall Gregory's this past weekend. It'sthe best flyline I've ever used, bar none. Floats high, mends easily, casts likea dream. I took that WF5 and cast it easily at both 20 feet and 75 feet onRandall's Granger taper rod. Even managed to hang a few nice fish whileusingit. That had to be the line, right? Could not possibly have been the skill ofthe fellow using it. I'm gonna have to pick up a few more soon to match withacouple of other rods. I'll give you a yell Harry rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bob Nunley wrote: Guys, There's a relatively new company out there that deserves a look. TheDorber Group. Strange...the pic (grandpa and young girl) on the front page of theirwebsite is owned by Versitex, a PA company. Or maybe dorbeR actuallyownsVersitex? Regards, Bob --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Apr 5 15:06:22 2001 f35K6KS16174 Subject: Test Got bumped from my server, testing to see if the list is working for me. from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Apr 5 15:31:53 2001 f35KVqS17307 Subject: Reels To the List. MY old USA Medalists stand up well for steelheads and chinooks, but thedrag was a bit light out of the box (some old box!) so I tightened them up abit years ago. Now I feel about them the same as I feel about my Model 12Winchester. Charlton Heston knows. Bill from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Apr 5 16:32:02 2001 f35LW0S19975 Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:31:12 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike,there is one other very nice reel I forgot to mention... Islander reels.Theyare made in BC, Canada. The IR series are their adjustable click pawls and thenew LXseries are the wide arbor ones(??). With the Canadian dollar as poor as it isnowAmericans could pick up one of these reels at a very nice price. I know theyhave blackand gold. I tried one of these reels out when I was buying my last reel(no punintended....although if my wife had HER way!!) and thought that they wereextremely wellbuilt and reasonably priced. I may buy one of their larger reels for my futuresalmonrod project.Their web site is at http://www.islander.com/ShawnShawn Pineo wrote: Mike,I have Hardy Bougle' for my larger (4-5wt rods) and a small Teton forthesmaller ones. Both are reasonably priced and do trout fine.I wouldn't partwitheither even though the Teton has a way better drag than I will probablyever need ontrout.I would agree with Tony that for the price the CFO's are a good deal,ifyouhave the bucks a Bill Ballan is nice, I think Danny Twang has a friend that isbuilding a pretty sharp reel for a decent price as well. Pfleugers(not thegross low end model) they are workhorses and are timeless.There are dozens of reels out there both inexpensive and overpricedthat Iwould love to have, it's all a matter of personal taste and wallet/creditcard limit;^PShawn Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.htmlhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Apr 5 17:12:14 2001 f35MCDS22098 Subject: Re: Test You're coming in load and clear. Must be working... Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Apr 5 19:46:35 2001 f360kYS26219 Subject: Re: fly reels? I bought a large arbor Islander last year for tarpon fishing. Performedvery well and my guide, who uses a Tibor, was very complimentary. Its wellmade. ----------From: Shawn Pineo Subject: Re: fly reels?Date: Thursday, April 05, 2001 6:34 PM Mike,there is one other very nice reel I forgot to mention...Islander reels. Theyare made in BC, Canada. The IR series are their adjustable click pawlsand the new LXseries are the wide arbor ones(??). With the Canadian dollar as poor asit is nowAmericans could pick up one of these reels at a very nice price. I knowthey have blackand gold. I tried one of these reels out when I was buying my lastreel(no punintended....although if my wife had HER way!!) and thought that they wereextremely wellbuilt and reasonably priced. I may buy one of their larger reels for myfuture salmonrod project.Their web site is at http://www.islander.com/ ShawnShawn Pineo wrote: Mike,I have Hardy Bougle' for my larger (4-5wt rods) and a smallTeton for thesmaller ones. Both are reasonably priced and do trout fine.I wouldn'tpart witheither even though the Teton has a way better drag than I will probablyever need ontrout.I would agree with Tony that for the price the CFO's are agood deal,if youhave the bucks a Bill Ballan is nice, I think Danny Twang has a friendthat isbuilding a pretty sharp reel for a decent price as well. Pfleugers(not thegross low end model) they are workhorses and are timeless.There are dozens of reels out there both inexpensive andoverpriced that Iwould love to have, it's all a matter of personal taste andwallet/credit card limit;^PShawn Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from drinkr@voicenet.com Thu Apr 5 22:57:16 2001 f363vFS00718 (207.103.134.71) Subject: YLI 100 thread colors I was thinking of trying YLI 100 Thread as an option and was looking forsome color options.The color chart available on line was difficult to decipher and I was hopingto get some color that may rival some of the older traditional colors fromBelding or Pearsall's. Any advice will save me from stockpiling even moreodd colors of thread. Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from Bamboomaker@aol.com Fri Apr 6 00:42:05 2001 f365g4S02719 Subject: Moisture Plug-less ferrules Friends, I usually use newer ferrules with moisture plugs (Z's/barstock). I have the opportunity to use a set of moisture plug-less ferrules and quite frankly have not found a great way to mount them. Any secret techniques used out there? How does one glue the ferrules without contaminating the inneraspect of the female ferrule with glue? Since there is no moisture plug, it seems that glue would just ooze into the female end. Thanks in advance for the advice. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Apr 6 07:49:31 2001 f36CnUS07389 f36CnO009631; Subject: Re: fly reels? I have three reels which I wouldn't swap for any. They are the originalblack Abel's, two in size 0.5 and one in size 1.I bought these reels at a dealer's in Sydney when they were seriouslyoverstocked, and I got them dirt cheap! I am lucky enough to have some very nice reels - the Abels, Hardy Perfect,Hardy Bougle, Hardy Marquis, Lamson etc; but the Abels are my first choice.I even strip the line off the bigger one and reload with a bonefish taperwhen I head off to far North Queensland, and it handles everything I throwat it with no maintenance more exacting than a good rinse in fresh waterevery evening. They are a delight to use, blessedly quiet, and I think will last forever -or at least near enough to forever to see me out. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: fly reels? Mike,there is one other very nice reel I forgot to mention... Islanderreels. Theyare made in BC, Canada. The IR series are their adjustable click pawls andthe new LXseries are the wide arbor ones(??). With the Canadian dollar as poor as itis nowAmericans could pick up one of these reels at a very nice price. I knowthey have blackand gold. I tried one of these reels out when I was buying my last reel(nopunintended....although if my wife had HER way!!) and thought that they wereextremely wellbuilt and reasonably priced. I may buy one of their larger reels for myfuture salmonrod project.Their web site is at http://www.islander.com/ ShawnShawn Pineo wrote: Mike,I have Hardy Bougle' for my larger (4-5wt rods) and a smallTeton for thesmaller ones. Both are reasonably priced and do trout fine.I wouldn'tpart witheither even though the Teton has a way better drag than I will probablyever need ontrout.I would agree with Tony that for the price the CFO's are a gooddeal,if youhave the bucks a Bill Ballan is nice, I think Danny Twang has a friendthat isbuilding a pretty sharp reel for a decent price as well. Pfleugers(not thegross low end model) they are workhorses and are timeless.There are dozens of reels out there both inexpensive andoverpriced that Iwould love to have, it's all a matter of personal taste andwallet/credit card limit;^PShawn Mike Janik wrote: I know this is off the rod making subject, but I waswondering what some of you guys think a suitableMODERN fly reel make is for bamboo rods. I havelooked at and like the J. Ryall reels, but fish withold Hardys. Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Fri Apr 6 08:01:08 2001 f36D17S07790 Subject: Re: YLI 100 thread colors David.I have used both #100 and #820 from YLI for Payne repairs.I have one of the original thread charts from YLI that have the Individual threads. But I still havn't found a sub for B&C 5115. I watched Jim varnish several rods but never saw what he did to the wraps before varnishing..Best Hal Bacon from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Apr 6 08:14:32 2001 f36DEVS08273 Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:14:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Moisture Plug-less ferrules Mark,I'm certain that the procedure I use to re-mount old moisture plug- lessferrules isn't FDA approved, but it works okay for me. I've found that thebiggest hurdle is knowing where to seat the female ferrules. What I've doneissimply insert the male into the female, and mount the female- malecombination onthe female end. Then mark the cane shaft at the butt end of the femaleferrule.Dis-assemble everything, and start gluing.Truth be told, I only seat the female withing about 1/32" of the mark sothata little allowance for glue is left at the end of the cane. After I get thefemale glued on, I clean out any "oozed" glue with a Q-tip, then dribble a littleback down in there to seal the cane.The males are pretty straightforward. (isn't that normally the case? Malesof almost any species are easier to understand than females, right :-)) Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, I usually use newer ferrules with moisture plugs (Z's/barstock). I have theopportunity to use a set of moisture plug-less ferrules and quite franklyhave not found a great way to mount them. Any secret techniques usedoutthere? How does one glue the ferrules without contaminating the inneraspectof the female ferrule with glue? Since there is no moisture plug, it seemsthat glue would just ooze into the female end. Thanks in advance for the advice. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Apr 6 09:08:39 2001 f36E8bS10727 f36E8U012953; Subject: Re: Moisture Plug-less ferrules I must say I only used ferrules without water seals twice - once in nickelsilver and once of necessity when I made a bamboo ferrule. Quite obviously I will use them again when I make another bamboo ferrule;but for the life of me I cannot see why you would use the bloody things innickel silver from choice. But in case it is of some use to someone what I did was melt some of thestuff that you use to coat the edge of cutting tools - I have absolutely no then (1) put the female onto the blank (2) fill the female cavity with themolten stuff (3) pull the female off the blank, & (4) glue it pretty much asusual, but make sure you have plenty air escape space so you don't blow outthe plug (5) dig out the plug. What you then have is rod with a ferrule which has no water seal. Probablyone is enough. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Moisture Plug-less ferrules Mark,I'm certain that the procedure I use to re-mount old moistureplug- lessferrules isn't FDA approved, but it works okay for me. I've found thatthebiggest hurdle is knowing where to seat the female ferrules. What I'vedone issimply insert the male into the female, and mount the female- malecombination onthe female end. Then mark the cane shaft at the butt end of the femaleferrule.Dis-assemble everything, and start gluing.Truth be told, I only seat the female withing about 1/32" of the markso thata little allowance for glue is left at the end of the cane. After I getthefemale glued on, I clean out any "oozed" glue with a Q-tip, then dribble alittleback down in there to seal the cane.The males are pretty straightforward. (isn't that normally the case?Malesof almost any species are easier to understand than females, right :-)) Harry Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, I usually use newer ferrules with moisture plugs (Z's/barstock). I havetheopportunity to use a set of moisture plug-less ferrules and quitefranklyhave not found a great way to mount them. Any secret techniques usedoutthere? How does one glue the ferrules without contaminating the inneraspectof the female ferrule with glue? Since there is no moisture plug, itseemsthat glue would just ooze into the female end. Thanks in advance for the advice. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Apr 6 09:54:35 2001 f36EsYS12712 , Subject: Re: YLI 100 thread colors Over the years I have heard from two different reliable sources that Paynesealed the wraps with white shellac. Varnish "hates" shellac, so you haveto wait a few weeks before applying the varnish. ----------From: baconrod@gsmrinc.com Subject: Re: YLI 100 thread colorsDate: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:01 PM David.I have used both #100 and #820 from YLI for Payne repairs.I have one of the original thread charts from YLI that have the Individual threads. But I still havn't found a sub for B&C 5115. I watched Jim varnish several rods but never saw what he did to the wraps before varnishing..Best Hal Bacon from Vtbamboo@cs.com Fri Apr 6 12:10:36 2001 f36HAUS18758 Subject: Thread Colors Not true about shellac & varnish. Shellac is compatible with all finishes, oil or waterbased. Although it is not water resistant it is one of the best sealers available. It also dries quickly. It does have a very short shelf life though. Not true about shellac& varnish. Shellac is compatible with all finishes, oil or waterbased. Although it is not water resistant it is one of thebest sealers available. It also dries quickly. It does have a very short shelf life though. from fquinchat@locl.net Fri Apr 6 12:30:19 2001 f36HUJS19347 Subject: Pressure treated reel inserts I believe Bob Nunley was the one who mentioned the technique of pressuretreating reel seat inserts with alucite-disolved-in-acetone-with-a- little-bit-of-airplane-dope concoction. Inow have some tiger stripe maple in the tank at 90 psi. How long should ittake? Dennis Bertram from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Apr 6 14:00:09 2001 f36J03S22499 Subject: RE: Thread Colors this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I setnt a message to someone which I meant to send to the list. So ifyou've already read this, my apologies. Shellac and varnish are, indeed,compatible, and, in my experience you need not wait a week after shellacing.Someone mentioned that Payne used "white shellac" on thread wraps. Whiteshellac is a highly processed product. It is filtered until quite pure,processed with heat which causes some polymerization making it moredurablethan raw shellac, then bleached with chlorine to remove shellac's naturalorange/amber color. I've never seen white shellac be anything other than"dewaxed." But I have read that in years past, it was available bothdewaxed and with the wax left in. Wax compounds occur naturally in shellacand can be left in or removed. Varnish only "hates" shellac (as someonecommented) if the wax is left in. Then you can have the normal problemsassociated with wax and silicone contamination, fish eyes, orange peeling,etc. But if dewaxed, shellac makes a great sealer coat under almost anyother finish. White shellac can also sometimes still contain residualchlorine, depending on quality of the product. I don't know how chlorinewould effect varnishes. Interestingly, I recall reading a study by the US Forest Service indicatingthat dewaxed shellac actually rated higher than varnishes and lacquers whenit came to preventing moisture/vapor penetration. Since shellac is not ashard or flexible as some varnishes, and since it is subject to damage fromalkyline compounds of any sort, it would probably not make a good topcoat barrier characteristics, and the fact that it will seal in almost anycontamination found on a surface, it could make an excellent undercoat forcane rods. -----Original Message----- Subject: Thread Colors Not true about shellac & varnish. Shellac is compatible with all finishes, oil or waterbased. Although it is not water resistant it is one of the best sealers available. It also dries quickly. It does have a very short shelf life though. I you've compatible, and, in my experience you need not wait a week after thread until quite pure, processed with heat which causes some polymerizationmaking it more durable than raw shellac, then bleached with chlorine to removeshellac's available in normal orange know how chlorine would effect varnishes. Interestingly, I recall reading a study by theUS Forest Service indicating that dewaxed shellac actually rated higher than varnishes and lacquers when it came to preventing moisture/vapor and since it is subject to damage from alkyline compounds of any sort, itwould of application, fast drying time, vapor barrier characteristics, and the fact that it will seal in almost any contamination found on a surface, it could make an excellent undercoat for cane rods. -----Original Message-----From: Vtbamboo@cs.com 11:10 Thread ColorsNot true about shellac & varnish. Shellac is compatible with all finishes, oil or waterbased. Although it is not water resistant it is one of the best sealers available. It also dries quickly. It does have a very short shelf life though. from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Fri Apr 6 15:56:01 2001 f36Ku0S27047 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: shellac as sealer To the list: The discussion about shellac prompts the following question: I have an all-original, red-wrapped, early 70's vintage Leonard 39H that, after a mere 25+ years of fishing, is starting to have some problems at the wraps. I've fished the rod alot but always treated it well, never put it away damp, etc. A number of the wraps, however, are starting to show white "dry marks" (don't know what else to call them, but I hope it's obvious what I mean) where the finish is apparently separating from the wraps. I have several other rods from other makers that are equally old and have been fished as much or more and do not have this problem. I have heard, perhaps incorrectly, that Leonard used shellac on their wraps as a color preserver, and I wonder if this is the cause. Any comments would be appreciated, including ideas on how to restore the wraps while maintaining the rod's value as much as possible. Thanks in advance... P.S. As a woodworker, I can say that shellac is indeed a good sealer, but is not very water-resistant. There are also several different types of shellac ( from orange to white) and there is quite a difference between the shellac that you make yourself from flakes and alcohol and the stuff that is sold as a liquid. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Apr 6 17:44:39 2001 f36MicS00442 Subject: Re:shellac as sealer TerryYou are most likely correct on the cause of the problem.However, (and don't take this the wrong way) but if you havenot done any restoration work, this is NOT the rod to practice on. On =the other hand if you are an accomplished maker/restorer by all means =forge ahead. So what I'm trying to say is if you want to save the value =of the rod(and being that it's a Leonard)I would suggest experimenting =on anotherrod or a wooden dowel first. I hope I'm not being presumptuous, it's =just you mentioned trying to hold the rods value. (not meant to =discourage, only to reinforce value of rod)Tony Miller TerryYou are most likely correct on the = problem.However, (and don't take this the wrong= you havenot done any restoration work, this = rod to practice on. On the other hand if you are an accomplished = experimenting on another being presumptuous, it's just you mentioned trying to hold the rods = meant to discourage, only to reinforce value of rod)Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Apr 6 19:27:00 2001 f370QxS02837 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Anyone read Japanese?? Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down after writing aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guy sureseems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy has awicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computer doesn'tshow thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for the text.Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that I know fact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn from lblan@provide.net Fri Apr 6 19:37:32 2001 f370bVS03186 Subject: RE: Anyone read Japanese?? Nah, we have most of those. Most of them came from this list, I'd suspect.They are .tpr files, albeit not entirely in English. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:30 PM Subject: Anyone read Japanese?? Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind downafter writing aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures andthe guy sure seems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guyhas a wicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computerdoesn't show thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols anyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers therethat I know for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn from piscator@macatawa.org Fri Apr 6 20:00:42 2001 f3710fS03785 Subject: Re:shellac as sealer Ah, heck. If it was mine, I'd just slap some more spar on the wraps and =keep fishing it until it really needs a new coat of varnish. Of course, =that's just me. Brian slap some more spar on the wraps and keep fishing it until it really = Brian from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Fri Apr 6 20:26:37 2001 f371QZS04346 Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:26:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? I followed one of the links. They copied the Hand Mill. See the pic. http://homepage2.nifty.com/leon/leon100leonnews.htm At 09:29 PM 4/6/2001 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down after writing aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guy sure seems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy has a wicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computer doesn't show thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for the text. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that I know for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Apr 6 21:28:55 2001 f372SqS05478 Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:28:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Shawn,Maybe our friend Max Satoh will jump in, if he's on the list. If not, youmightcontact him through his website at: http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/all/eoverview.html Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down after writing aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guy sureseems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy has awicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computer doesn'tshow thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for thetext. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that Iknow for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from miangler@yahoo.com Sat Apr 7 00:53:58 2001 f375rwS08873 2001 22:54:00 PDT Subject: glace thread? Just wondering... Where do you find this stuff otherthan a rodmaking supply? There has got to be some inthe Kalamazoo area! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Apr 7 02:17:44 2001 f377HhS10201 Sat, 7 Apr 2001 00:17:40 -0700 Sat, 07 Apr 2001 07:17:40 GMT Subject: Ferrule Cement FILETIME=[D4FAF360:01C0BF32] Thought I would wade into the ferrule glue question, I think it is OK to experiment as much as you desire on your rods for personal use using whatever stuff you like. For rods that are going out into the cold cruel world where the user may not know how best to care for the ferrules or repair them without the time and trouble of finding a local bamboo craftsman or sending the rod to the maker I think that it is our responsibility to secure the ferrules using the most secure method possible. Having seen a variety of epoxy types fail on a percentage of the 30 or so that I used epoxy on , and repairing loose ferrules from a variety of makers ,old and new, secured with a variety of adhesives, I have come to the conclusion that one of the new plastic base ferrule cements secured with a NS pin is the best way I can use to secure the ferrule. I think that CSE suggests that method, Heddon tried to convince themself that pins were not needed but they had to relent and pin them. Granger never used a pin and I have had to repair very few of them so it worked for them. An alternate theory I have as to why some rods throw ferrules and some do not is that the stresses through the ferrule must be higher for some taper types than others. Older rods that were what we would call overcut at the ferrule station seem to hold up better than those that are fitted with an oversize ferrule.A.J.Thramer_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Apr 7 02:23:15 2001 f377N9S10440 Sat, 7 Apr 2001 00:23:06 -0700 Sat, 07 Apr 2001 07:23:06 GMT Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue FILETIME=[9713ABE0:01C0BF33] I will second the endorsement of the high quality of SIG's line of epoxies.NFI yada, yadaA.J. From: Lazybee45@aol.com Subject: Re: Ferrule GlueDate: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:07:05 EDT In a message dated 4/5/01 2:18:29 AM Central Daylight Time,channer@frontier.net writes: guess what, they all failed. As far as i am concerned, Devcon productsare worthless for rodmaking. >> This is an excuse to do this, but actually in my model airplane building foryears I have used some pretty good Epoxy produced (packaged?)by Sig MfginMontezuma Ia. Also, Hobbypoxy. Sig comes in several types from 5 min to 30cheap, theycome in convienent sizes and are pretty straightforward to use. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from nobler@satx.rr.com Sat Apr 7 08:31:03 2001 f37DV2S13893 f37DV3rd029180; Subject: Re: Ferrule Glue I agree Al, Sig Mfg's. line of slow set epoxy is one of the best I've everused ! This company is across the street from Brownell's gun supply, inMontezuma, Iowa.GMA from mrmac@tcimet.net Sat Apr 7 08:35:56 2001 f37DZuS14140 Subject: Re: glace thread? Mike -A couple places back in the archives Atlanta Thread Supply'saddress is given and you can order from them, but you'll end up withenough to do about 1,000 rods! I think you'll also find references that"typically" 16/4 is used for butts and 24/4 for tips, so you might wanttwo spools if you're gonna order. Also, upholstery shops shops mighthave it on hand if you call around. Also back in there somewhere, several people discuss using crochetthread quite successfully, which makes a lot of sense and you wouldn'thave to buy such a wasteful quantity. It just needs to hold up underheat treating, so synthetics are probably not a good choice and is whycotton is used. mac Mike Janik wrote: Just wondering... Where do you find this stuff otherthan a rodmaking supply? There has got to be some inthe Kalamazoo area! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Apr 7 09:16:05 2001 f37EG4S14759 Sat, 7 Apr 2001 11:15:20 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: glace thread? Mike,as glace cotton thread isn't readily available here in Canada (at leastnothere in Nova Scotia) I was just using $1.99 crochet thread from Walmart(oryourchoice of store) for glue binding and cotton string for heat treating.Now I have found a upholstery thread from Gutermann, it is polyester,strongas steel and pulls clean from the glued blank. I also use it for binding myferruletabs during gluing.Perhaps not for everyone, but it works for me and I have better thingsto dowith $80+Shawn Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Mike -A couple places back in the archives Atlanta Thread Supply'saddress is given and you can order from them, but you'll end up withenough to do about 1,000 rods! I think you'll also find references that"typically" 16/4 is used for butts and 24/4 for tips, so you might wanttwo spools if you're gonna order. Also, upholstery shops shops mighthave it on hand if you call around. Also back in there somewhere, several people discuss using crochetthread quite successfully, which makes a lot of sense and you wouldn'thave to buy such a wasteful quantity. It just needs to hold up underheat treating, so synthetics are probably not a good choice and is whycotton is used. mac Mike Janik wrote: Just wondering... Where do you find this stuff otherthan a rodmaking supply? There has got to be some inthe Kalamazoo area! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from rmoon@ida.net Sat Apr 7 09:17:02 2001 f37EH0S14896 Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Shawn why don't you ask Mr. Shinya Omote. I think he speaks Englishreasonably well andwhat better place to go than to the author. omote@mars.dti.ne.jp. His name is ShinyaOmote Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down after writing aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guy sureseems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy has awicked taper> archive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps mycomputer doesn't show thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for thetext. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that Iknow for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Apr 7 09:24:06 2001 f37EO5S15232 Sat, 7 Apr 2001 11:23:25 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Thanks Ralph,I've gone through the list of tapers and found several I wouldlike tohave that aren't readily available so I think I will contact him. Shawn Ralph W Moon wrote: Shawn why don't you ask Mr. Shinya Omote. I think he speaks Englishreasonably well andwhat better place to go than to the author. omote@mars.dti.ne.jp. His name is ShinyaOmote Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down after writing aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guy sureseems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy has awicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computer doesn'tshow thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for thetext. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that Iknow for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn from oossg@vbe.com Sat Apr 7 10:50:33 2001 f37FoWS16335 Organization: Oshkosh Office Systems Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Bob,They may have tried to copy the hand mill, but I'm sure they are not as goodto work with as Tom. It was bound to happen. You can copy the tool, but notthe people behind it!Scott Bob Maulucci wrote: I followed one of the links. They copied the Hand Mill. See the pic.http://homepage2.nifty.com/leon/leon100leonnews.htm At 09:29 PM 4/6/2001 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote:Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down afterwriting aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guysure seems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy has awicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computer doesn'tshow thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for thetext. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that Iknow for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Apr 7 11:26:16 2001 f37GQGS16954 Service Version 5.5.2448.0) Subject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's Forum Sounds like something that is already available on The Bamboo FlyrodMagazine web site. Randy Brewer wrote: I would like to invite members of the rodmaker's list to join theBamboo Rodmaker's Forum. It is hoped that this forum will encouragementorship and help keep the art of bamboo rod building alive andgrowing! This virtual gathering place was created to allow bambooflyrod builders to communicate without having to use a listserve orE-Mail (except to sign up). Your e-mail address will never be used forany purpose or given/rented/sold to any third party. There areabsolutely no underlying commercial interests, sponsorships, or othermotivations in creating this forum, other than to have a place on theweb devoted exclusively to bamboo rod makers. Advantages: The forumfeatures a repository for tapers, a gallery for posting images ofbamboo rods, and an area for member introductions and classifieds.More areas such as supplier and tool provider lists will be added asthe need dictates. I have used these forums (for other topics) andthey are great when a group of people begin to put their ideas,know-how, and images on them. This forum allows members to post newthreads on a particular topic. Other members may reply to that topicor ignore it without ever looking at all the replys it may have. Thereis never a need to take any action to "stop" your mail when you go outof town for a few days, as e-mails are not sent to members, rathermembers look at the site at their convenience. The site is operated byan amateur bamboo rod maker. I am certainly no authority on makingbamboo rods, but I have made them and continue to do so on a hobbybasis. I do have some small understanding of what a person has to doto become a bamboo rod maker. Disadvantages: It's brand new and thereare no posts to read unless you join and use the forum. Withoutparticipation, the site will have little value (and it will have noreason to exist), so I offer it to the bamboo rodmaking community atface value. Take a look and see if this is something you would like touse! I would welcome your comments. Thanks, Randy BrewerEugene, OregonBamboo Rodmaker'sForum:http://pub57.ezboard.com/bbamboorodmakersforumP.S. If this post is not something you are interested in, pleaseforgive the intrusion. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://member.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Sat Apr 7 12:39:18 2001 f37HdIS18252 2001 10:39:20 PDT Subject: Reels..a question Has anyone actually used one of the "AF" series ofreels from the Global dorbeR Group. They look prettynice. TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from hartzell@easystreet.com Sat Apr 7 13:12:50 2001 f37ICnS18904 f37ICnD07793; Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement Al's remarks on ferrules are fine. I use epoxy and have not had a failure. Iam careful to scratch up the inside of the ferrule before gluing since epoxyfailures are not very often the fault of the glue, but more often the failureofmixing and/or preparing the surface carefully.Ed Hartzell Allen Thramer wrote: Thought I would wade into the ferrule glue question, I think it is OK toexperiment as much as you desire on your rods for personal use usingwhatever stuff you like. For rods that are going out into the cold cruelworld where the user may not know how best to care for the ferrules orrepair them without the time and trouble of finding a local bamboocraftsmanor sending the rod to the maker I think that it is our responsibility tosecure the ferrules using the most secure method possible. Having seen a variety of epoxy types fail on a percentage of the 30 or sothat I used epoxy on , and repairing loose ferrules from a variety ofmakers,old and new, secured with a variety of adhesives, I have come to theconclusion that one of the new plastic base ferrule cements secured with aNS pin is the best way I can use to secure the ferrule. I think that CSEsuggests that method, Heddon tried to convince themself that pins werenotneeded but they had to relent and pin them. Granger never used a pin and Ihave had to repair very few of them so it worked for them. An alternate theory I have as to why some rods throw ferrules and somedonot is that the stresses through the ferrule must be higher for sometapertypes than others. Older rods that were what we would call overcut at theferrule station seem to hold up better than those that are fitted with anoversize ferrule.A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 13:19:35 2001 f37IJYS19408 LAA04261; Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement AJ, Thanks for the info. I am sure it will prove to be useful. How about somedetail as to how best pin those ferrules./ Regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule Cement Thought I would wade into the ferrule glue question from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Apr 7 13:24:26 2001 f37IOPS19664 Sat, 7 Apr 2001 11:24:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Reels..a question I played with half a dozen or so last weekend, and watchedBob Nunley fill one with line and backing. Bet Bob can giveus a report before too long... Harry blue fin wrote: Has anyone actually used one of the "AF" series ofreels from the Global dorbeR Group. They look prettynice. from caneman@clnk.com Sat Apr 7 14:21:24 2001 f37JLNS20884 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Reels..a question Harry,sorry, I was planning to pick one up, but that was my Lamson I wasfilling with line at the table. I am going to order one of the AF seriesreels on Monday... someone bought the one I was looking at, and they didn'thave a second one like it at the show. I'll give a report on it when itgets here and I get to use it. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reels..a question I played with half a dozen or so last weekend, and watchedBob Nunley fill one with line and backing. Bet Bob can giveus a report before too long... Harry blue fin wrote: Has anyone actually used one of the "AF" series ofreels from the Global dorbeR Group. They look prettynice. from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 7 16:09:44 2001 f37L9hS23160 Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement Not to discount anything below, or anyone's experiences, there are a varietyof factors which may lead to premature failure of epoxy ferrule joints. AsEd pointed out, improper mixing is frequently the culprit of failed gluejoints. Not following instructions has to rate highly also, I would think,as would failure to allow the mixture to dwell prior to application. 1. Lack of an epoxy resin/curing agent that has a sufficient modulus ofelasticity in order to adapt to the dissimilar coefficients of expansionbetween the bamboo and the ferrule, would be one of my firstconsiderations.Very cold, or very hot temperature extremes would accentuate thedissimilarity. There is one resin system available from Miller-Stephenson,but it is expensive, considered HazMat, and has the attendant shipping fees.At around $ 75.00 per quart, shipping included, it seems like a lot of moneyjust to glue on ferrules. One quart would be several lifetimes of ferruleadhesive. Epon 828, or better yet, 826, with Epi-Cure 3164 is a goodalternative. 2 Insufficient fitting of bamboo to the ID of the ferrule. Epoxies likevery thin glue joints. A .001 epoxy thickness all around the ferrule stationwould be what I would consider a max. thickness joint. 3. If one's ferrule station was not completely rounded, and fit well to theferrule, one could have flats of some .005, or more, glue joint thickness,which in my opinion are too thick for epoxy. I would rather epoxy on thinstrips of wood to the flats, then turn everything down to it's proper size,than to have the flats filled with epoxy. 4. As hard as this is to believe, epoxies like smooth surfaces best, too.Don't believe it, huh? It has to do with surface tension. The roughedsurface may have greater surface area for the glue joint, relativelyspeaking, but these miniature peaks and valleys also are more prone toshear, and have less surface tension. 5. Cleanliness comes before Godliness with respect to glue joints, and fuelinjected engines. Clean everything well with a clean, pure solvent. Manysolvents commonly available at the hardware store have been recycled, andwhile they appear clean, they will leave a residue/film. Guess what thatdoes to your glue joint? I'm sure there are other reasons, I just can't think of them at the moment. M-D Al's remarks on ferrules are fine. I use epoxy and have not had afailure. Iam careful to scratch up the inside of the ferrule before gluing sinceepoxyfailures are not very often the fault of the glue, but more often thefailure ofmixing and/or preparing the surface carefully.Ed Hartzell Allen Thramer wrote: Thought I would wade into the ferrule glue question, I think it is OK toexperiment as much as you desire on your rods for personal use usingwhatever stuff you like. For rods that are going out into the cold cruelworld where the user may not know how best to care for the ferrules orrepair them without the time and trouble of finding a local bamboocraftsmanor sending the rod to the maker I think that it is our responsibility tosecure the ferrules using the most secure method possible. Having seen a variety of epoxy types fail on a percentage of the 30 orsothat I used epoxy on , and repairing loose ferrules from a variety ofmakers,old and new, secured with a variety of adhesives, I have come to theconclusion that one of the new plastic base ferrule cements secured withaNS pin is the best way I can use to secure the ferrule. I think that CSEsuggests that method, Heddon tried to convince themself that pins werenotneeded but they had to relent and pin them. Granger never used a pin andIhave had to repair very few of them so it worked for them. An alternate theory I have as to why some rods throw ferrules and somedonot is that the stresses through the ferrule must be higher for sometapertypes than others. Older rods that were what we would call overcut attheferrule station seem to hold up better than those that are fitted withanoversize ferrule.A.J.Thramer from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 7 16:26:37 2001 f37LQaS23605 Subject: Magazine Article Guys, Our friend Danny Twang was featured in the national fly fishing magazine ofNorway. The article details much of the fabrication process, with manypictures of the various steps involved. It also includes a picture of Danny, tell you that it was well written, but I don't read a word of Norwegian. ;o) Congratulations, Danny! M-D from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Apr 7 19:43:12 2001 f380hBS26239 Subject: Re: Reels..a question Oops,My mistake, Bob. I thought Billie bought one, and y'all were filling herreel up. Oh well, someone will come up with a report. Harry Bob Nunley wrote: Harry,sorry, I was planning to pick one up, but that was my Lamson I wasfilling with line at the table. I am going to order one of the AF seriesreels on Monday... someone bought the one I was looking at, and they didn'thave a second one like it at the show. I'll give a report on it when itgets here and I get to use it. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Saturday, April 07, 2001 1:25 PMSubject: Re: Reels..a question I played with half a dozen or so last weekend, and watchedBob Nunley fill one with line and backing. Bet Bob can giveus a report before too long... Harry blue fin wrote: Has anyone actually used one of the "AF" series ofreels from the Global dorbeR Group. They look prettynice. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Apr 7 21:06:33 2001 f3826WS27445 Sat, 7 Apr 2001 22:06:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? How true. At 10:49 AM 4/7/2001 -0500, Scott W. Grady wrote:Bob,They may have tried to copy the hand mill, but I'm sure they are not asgoodto work with as Tom. It was bound to happen. You can copy the tool, butnotthe people behind it!Scott Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from bamboo@pa.net Sat Apr 7 22:30:44 2001 f383UdS28551 Subject: finishing Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes and =methods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearing why = Regards,Bill Just hoping to stimulate a discussion = Regards,Bill from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sat Apr 7 22:58:11 2001 f383wAS29125 2001 20:58:13 PDT Subject: Elmer's Probond Probond has been mentioned as a PU glue worthy offerrules and other tasks. Picked up some Elmer'sProbond today and it says, "Model and Hobby cement,bonds to Polystyrene Models and Toys." Is this thesame Probond those that use it, are using? It mentionsno where on the package that its a polyurethane glue. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Apr 8 01:09:37 2001 f3869aS01770 Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:09:34 -0700 Sun, 08 Apr 2001 06:09:34 GMT Subject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's Forum FILETIME=[7BB08250:01C0BFF2] Perhaps so , but Randy did't ask for 20 or 30 bucks for a nonexistent product. If the corp. didn't file a chapter 7 or something then we have been taken advantage of and they exist due to the kind generosity of their subscribers (liberal definition: we wanted to publish a magazine, honest!)A.J. From: Todd Talsma Subject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's ForumDate: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 12:32:01 - 0400 Sounds like something that is already available on The Bamboo FlyrodMagazine web site. Randy Brewer wrote: _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Apr 8 04:40:45 2001 f389ehS03821 f389ed016487 Subject: Holding Strips for Planing In case it's a help to anyone, I thought I'd pass on a suggestion; it's justa thing that I have been doing over the last three rods I have made, and ithas been a great help to me. I always rest my forms, both rough and finishing forms, about 3cm above thebenchtop, using a couple of removable pieces of pine that I have routed outto hold the ends of the form snug, and that locate onto the benchtop with acouple of dowels on each. This does a couple of things - it allows me to geta "top & bottom" grip on the strip for better purchase and reducedhaemorrhage, and it makes it very easy to keep the bench clean. I use acouple of movable blocks to support the arch, to stop it from dipping underthe pressure of planing. Old hat, I know. But the last three rods I have been using one of those simple spring- actionwoodworking clamps with rubber-lined jaws to secure the butt end of thestrip to the planing form; I simply remove it each time I flip the strip,and it takes absolutely no time and very little effort. The benefit is in the very positive location of the strip, and in the factthat I can now devote both hands to operating the plane, and because I nolonger have to perform a hand crossing manoeuvre with the plane hand andtheholding hand, I can walk the plane along the job, keeping a very constantvisual perspective the while. I must qualify all that by explaining that I have a very marked disabilitydue to ankylosing spondylitis, a spinal condition , and what I consider tobe a boon may not be of any use at all to anybody else. But it certainlyseems to improve my strip turnover time and the accuracy of the finishedproduct; and it surely reduces accidental snicking of the steel forms withthe plane on those occasions when the plane just seems to "get away";because I am more in control with both hands, and because my head is moreorless centred over the job, those "getaways" just seem not to happen now. Peter from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Apr 8 06:46:38 2001 f38BkbS05060 ;Sun, 8 Apr 2001 13:46:38 +0200 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Sv: Holding Strips for Planing f38BkcS05061 Congrats Peter Now You just have to realize that using a bigger, two-handed plane makes Your planing even easier, and better.Been doing that always:-) regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Holding Strips for Planing In case it's a help to anyone, I thought I'd pass on a suggestion; it's justa thing that I have been doing over the last three rods I have made, and ithas been a great help to me. I always rest my forms, both rough and finishing forms, about 3cm abovethebenchtop, using a couple of removable pieces of pine that I have routedoutto hold the ends of the form snug, and that locate onto the benchtop withacouple of dowels on each. This does a couple of things - it allows me to geta "top & bottom" grip on the strip for better purchase and reducedhaemorrhage, and it makes it very easy to keep the bench clean. I use acouple of movable blocks to support the arch, to stop it from dipping underthe pressure of planing. Old hat, I know. But the last three rods I have been using one of those simple spring- actionwoodworking clamps with rubber-lined jaws to secure the butt end of thestrip to the planing form; I simply remove it each time I flip the strip,and it takes absolutely no time and very little effort. The benefit is in the very positive location of the strip, and in the factthat I can now devote both hands to operating the plane, and because I nolonger have to perform a hand crossing manoeuvre with the plane hand andtheholding hand, I can walk the plane along the job, keeping a very constantvisual perspective the while. I must qualify all that by explaining that I have a very marked disabilitydue to ankylosing spondylitis, a spinal condition , and what I consider tobe a boon may not be of any use at all to anybody else. But it certainlyseems to improve my strip turnover time and the accuracy of the finishedproduct; and it surely reduces accidental snicking of the steel forms withthe plane on those occasions when the plane just seems to "get away";because I am more in control with both hands, and because my head ismore orless centred over the job, those "getaways" just seem not to happen now. Peter from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Apr 8 07:13:09 2001 f38CD8S05403 Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:13:00 -0400 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Holding Strips for Planing Hi Peter:I used the rubber tipped clamp on the planing forms also. Works well and is safe. I used finger cots on my off hand just to be safe.Bob But the last three rods I have been using one of those simple spring- actionwoodworking clamps with rubber-lined jaws to secure the butt end of thestrip to the planing form; I simply remove it each time I flip the strip,and it takes absolutely no time and very little effort. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sun Apr 8 07:21:10 2001 f38CL9S05651 Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:21:00 -0400 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Holding Strips for Planing Forgot to add a point....if the clamp cannot hold the strip, you are not sharp enough and need to resharpen/hone your blade. This was a good gauge Bob At 08:10 AM 4/8/2001 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote:Hi Peter:I used the rubber tipped clamp on the planing forms also. Works well and is safe. I used finger cots on my off hand just to be safe.Bob But the last three rods I have been using one of those simple spring- actionwoodworking clamps with rubber-lined jaws to secure the butt end of thestrip to the planing form; I simply remove it each time I flip the strip,and it takes absolutely no time and very little effort. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 8 07:35:18 2001 f38CZHS05959 Subject: Re: finishing Bill;I find 2 coats of Man-O-War to be plenty.John Bill Taylor wrote: Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes andmethods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearingwhy most folks recommend three and four coats of varnish. Regards,Bill from caneman@clnk.com Sun Apr 8 07:54:05 2001 f38Cs4S06285 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: finishing Bill,To me it isn't a constant. I use at least three coats, and sand thedevil out of them in between, but in some cases have used up to five coatsbefore I get the appearance i want. I think 2 coats would be more thansufficient for the protection we seek from the varnish, but I just sand andvarnish until I get the look I want out of the finish. Then again I'm oneof those types that has to pull my truck keys out of my pocket and look atthem in my hand before I lock the car, even though I KNOW they aren't in thetruck still... same with house keys, barn key, etc... (Can we spell"obsessive compulsive"?). Considering all the sanding I do, I probablydon't have the thickness of two full coats on the rod when it's complete.Varmor R-10 is what I use...John, are you using MoW Varnish or Polyurethane? Just curious... Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: finishing Bill;I find 2 coats of Man-O-War to be plenty.John Bill Taylor wrote: Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes andmethods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearingwhy most folks recommend three and four coats of varnish. Regards,Bill from nobler@satx.rr.com Sun Apr 8 09:18:03 2001 f38EI2S07864 f38EGlUd020887;Sun, 8 Apr 2001 09:16:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Elmer's Probond My container of Elmer's ProBond states quite clearly Polyurethane glue,meant to bond most anything !GMA from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sun Apr 8 09:35:40 2001 f38EZcS08226 Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Hi (Hai), I'm still on the list, but am recently read only, sorry. Will come backsoon when I finish a study of which I am under experiment. Mr. Omote was one of my rodmaking colleague, though we do not havecontact to each other recently. Is there anything I can do for you? If it is trouble, please keep me away of it.If you need help, I am glad to do so. Max Shawn,Maybe our friend Max Satoh will jump in, if he's on the list. If not,you mightcontact him through his website at:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/all/eoverview.html Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down afterwriting aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guysure seems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy has awicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computer doesn'tshow thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for thetext. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that Iknow for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from earsdws@duke.edu Sun Apr 8 09:59:37 2001 f38ExaS08594 KAA21371; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Holding Strips for Planing Gang,I am going to order a Lie Nielsen scrapper plane and would appreciatethoughts on two issues. First, small (5 1/2") or big (9") and what aboutputtinga 0.005" grove in the bottom like I have on my Lie Nielsen block plane?Many thanks. dws. from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sun Apr 8 10:13:58 2001 f38FDwS08887 ;Sun, 8 Apr 2001 15:13:55 +0000 Subject: RE: Holding Strips for Planing David, I have the LN 212 scraper without a groove. I like to use it for thatelusive final thousandth. While I don't have any experience with it's bigbrother, the little 212 fits nicely in my hand. The larger one might bebetter at reducing chatter, but that shouldn't be much of a problem if youkeep the blade sharp and don't try to take off too much material on eachpass. As for whether to groove or not, I don't think it's necessary on a scraper.That's just my opinion. I grooved one of my block planes and I like havingthe groove for hogging off lots of material. It even works well whengetting close to the form in the final tapering stage, but I feel it lacksthe precision I need when things get really skinny. Hope this helps... Dennis -----Original Message----- Ph.D. Subject: Re: Holding Strips for Planing Gang,I am going to order a Lie Nielsen scrapper plane and would appreciatethoughts on two issues. First, small (5 1/2") or big (9") and what aboutputtinga 0.005" grove in the bottom like I have on my Lie Nielsen block plane?Many thanks. dws. from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 8 11:02:05 2001 f38G20S09545 Sun, 8 Apr 2001 13:01:11 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Max,Thank you very much. I was just interested in a couple of the tapers inMr.Omote's taper page. My computer doesn't show the numbers for the tapers,just thetitle. I will try to contact him.Shawn Max Satoh wrote: Hi (Hai), I'm still on the list, but am recently read only, sorry. Will come backsoon when I finish a study of which I am under experiment. Mr. Omote was one of my rodmaking colleague, though we do not havecontact to each other recently. Is there anything I can do for you? If it is trouble, please keep me away of it.If you need help, I am glad to do so. Max Shawn,Maybe our friend Max Satoh will jump in, if he's on the list. If not,you mightcontact him through his website at:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/all/eoverview.html Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind down afterwriting aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and the guysure seems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guy hasawicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computerdoesn'tshow thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols for thetext. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers there that Iknow for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sun Apr 8 12:22:35 2001 f38HMXS10954 2001 10:22:35 PDT Subject: Re: Elmer's Probond Harry, I took it back and then went out to the HomeDepot and found the right stuff in an 8 oz. bottle(should last me a while). The smaller hardware storesand craft places in my area just didn't carry it. GladI asked you guys before trying it. Elmer's has morethan one ProBond (which I didn't know or figure on).Thanks again,Bill Walters--- Harry Boyd wrote:Bill,I think you got the wrong stuff. The Probond Ihave isin a round jar, not an elongated oval like thecarpenter'sglue comes in. Harry Boyd Bill Walters wrote: Probond has been mentioned as a PU glue worthy offerrules and other tasks. Picked up some Elmer'sProbond today and it says, "Model and Hobbycement,bonds to Polystyrene Models and Toys." Is this thesame Probond those that use it, are using? Itmentionsno where on the package that its a polyurethaneglue. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from dr.matro@airmail.net Sun Apr 8 12:37:49 2001 f38HbnS11411 sender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Travel plans Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen I am firming up travel plans to New York (3 days in Roscoe and 2 days inMillbrook) and Vermont (3 days in Manchester) for the last 2 weeks ofMay. May 19 through 27 is set in stone, but I'm keeping a week eitherside fairly organic. I am driving from the North Texas area with flyrods and shotguns. Although I will not have a lot of free time, whatwill I regret if I miss it? Please reply off-list and TIA. Ken Cole from martinj@aa.net Sun Apr 8 14:37:53 2001 f38JbqS13706 Sun, 8 Apr 2001 12:37:47 -0700 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: Holding Strips for Planing I have been using the spring clamp method for the last 5 or 6 rods. This wasthe best thing I ever did. It has made more of an improvement and made iteasier to do the planing than anything I ever did. I don't even need to weargloves or cots anymore. When I first started this, I supported both ends andthe middle with 2 by 4 pieces. I have since removed the center block as itwas unnecessary. (I thought the form might bow but it doesn't. I used to usethe rubber tipped spring clamp with a piece of closed cell foam glued to oneclamp tip. I have since changed to the plastic clamps with the swivel flatends.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Holding Strips for Planing In case it's a help to anyone, I thought I'd pass on a suggestion; it's justa thing that I have been doing over the last three rods I have made, and ithas been a great help to me. I always rest my forms, both rough and finishing forms, about 3cm above thebenchtop, using a couple of removable pieces of pine that I have routed outto hold the ends of the form snug, and that locate onto the benchtop with acouple of dowels on each. This does a couple of things - it allows me to geta "top & bottom" grip on the strip for better purchase and reducedhaemorrhage, and it makes it very easy to keep the bench clean. I use acouple of movable blocks to support the arch, to stop it from dipping underthe pressure of planing. Old hat, I know. But the last three rods I have been using one of those simple spring- actionwoodworking clamps with rubber-lined jaws to secure the butt end of thestrip to the planing form; I simply remove it each time I flip the strip,and it takes absolutely no time and very little effort. The benefit is in the very positive location of the strip, and in the factthat I can now devote both hands to operating the plane, and because I nolonger have to perform a hand crossing manoeuvre with the plane hand andtheholding hand, I can walk the plane along the job, keeping a very constantvisual perspective the while. I must qualify all that by explaining that I have a very marked disabilitydue to ankylosing spondylitis, a spinal condition , and what I consider tobe a boon may not be of any use at all to anybody else. But it certainlyseems to improve my strip turnover time and the accuracy of the finishedproduct; and it surely reduces accidental snicking of the steel forms withthe plane on those occasions when the plane just seems to "get away";because I am more in control with both hands, and because my head is moreorless centred over the job, those "getaways" just seem not to happen now. Peter from cdn@ticon.net Sun Apr 8 15:45:27 2001 f38KjRS15227 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re:grooving scraper plane David,I grooved the sole of my scraper plane to 0.002"and it works beautifully- does two things for youmakes it very easy to set the blade-just set theplane on a flat surface ,I use a piece of plateglass, and let the blade drop down to the surfaceof the glass, tighten the blade holder,and presto- your blade is now setperfectly flush with the bottom of the plane.As an added bonus you will not be scraping yourforms!Just get your strips to within a couple thou'then scrape till it doesn't cut any more and yourthere!I did this on the very first strips that I evermade and they glued up flawlessly-no gaps-no glue lines!This being newbie advise you can take it for what it is worthbut I gotta think it was more than dumb luck having my first tip section turn out so well.I bevel my scraperblade to a 35 degree angle and my scraper plane has afixed angle of 3.5 degrees. Another nifty thing I'veexperimented with is that you can also slide a pieceof 0.001 brass shim stock that is the width of the grooveinto the groove while you are setting the the blade,and that automatically sets the blade to stop cutting 0.001 above your forms- handy if you want to leave a thou for scraping enamel or sanding later.good luckNed "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Gang,I am going to order a Lie Nielsen scrapper plane and would appreciatethoughts on two issues. First, small (5 1/2") or big (9") and what aboutputtinga 0.005" grove in the bottom like I have on my Lie Nielsen block plane?Many thanks. dws. from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 8 16:14:03 2001 f38LE2S16199 Subject: Oven Thermostat Control In looking at the 2001 Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New, w/60" capillary tube,150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 amp at 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x1*" x 2*", all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, but the phonenumber is 1-800-488-3407. They have many electrical motors, switches,hydraulics, gas and diesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog. M-D from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 8 16:38:55 2001 f38LcsS16712 Subject: Re: finishing Bob;Varnish.(period)Sand first coat flat,flat, flat, then dip once more.Unthinned(except for the few drops on top when it's going to be a whilebefore I varnish again.John Bob Nunley wrote: Bill,To me it isn't a constant. I use at least three coats, and sand thedevil out of them in between, but in some cases have used up to five coatsbefore I get the appearance i want. I think 2 coats would be more thansufficient for the protection we seek from the varnish, but I just sand andvarnish until I get the look I want out of the finish. Then again I'm oneof those types that has to pull my truck keys out of my pocket and look atthem in my hand before I lock the car, even though I KNOW they aren't inthetruck still... same with house keys, barn key, etc... (Can we spell"obsessive compulsive"?). Considering all the sanding I do, I probablydon't have the thickness of two full coats on the rod when it's complete.Varmor R-10 is what I use...John, are you using MoW Varnish or Polyurethane? Just curious... Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: channer Cc: rodmakers Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:36 AMSubject: Re: finishing Bill;I find 2 coats of Man-O-War to be plenty.John Bill Taylor wrote: Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes andmethods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearingwhy most folks recommend three and four coats of varnish. Regards,Bill from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 8 18:52:36 2001 f38NqaS19126 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Straining varnish Hi all,I've come across a new (to me) problem with my Spar urethane. Itseems Ihave some dust in it. I was going to filter it but was unsure of what exactlyto use.Before I would just set the spar aside to use on some un- important project,but nowthat I am drip finishing my rods I have a considerable amount of moneyinvested inspar so I would like to filter it.I know there are paint filters out there but they don't seem very fine.Would coffee filters work or would they just contaminate it worse?? I'mthinking thatthe dust/contaminant came in through my thinner when I cleaned the driptube as thefirst dip went good. I agree with (I think it was Peter??) when he said thereareallot of contaminants in thinners and solvents, I'm thinking of switching tosomething else??Any advice on these problems would be appreciated, ShawnP.S. I don't think my local home brewing supplier would like me running mysparthrough his rental wine filtration system, so don't even suggest that one,unless ofcourse you could recommend a way of doing it undetected ;^) Shawn from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 8 21:04:29 2001 f3924SS21937 Subject: Dial Indicator Standard Here's something I thought might help explain what is going on when =calibrating a dial indicator, or a Waara V-block, for that matter. This =was drawn by my friend G=F6ran Eriksson of Vasteras Sweden. M-D Here's something I = explain what is going on when calibrating a dial indicator, or a Waara = M-D name="Image19.gif" filename="Image19.gif" 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 from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 8 21:14:12 2001 f392EBS22263 Subject: Dial Indicator Standard Here's something I thought might help explain what is going on when =calibrating a dial indicator, or a Waara V-block, for that matter. This =was drawn by my friend G=F6ran Eriksson of Vasteras Sweden. M-D> from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sun Apr 8 22:31:50 2001 f393VnS23900 Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Shawn, Harry, et al. , I guess both of Mr. Omote and Leon (Mr. Miura) has been the member of thislist. They may be looking at those posts but feeling some hesitation topost in English for some reason. In general, most of Japanese could read English, but sometimes not good atwriting and speaking. Many other Japanese rodmaking concerns are peepingthis list includeing myself. As for Mr. Omote's taper archive, you can down load the taper data bymeansof*.tpr file. The data contents has probably internal format which could beread and written by his software program, called Take-Rod which is likeWayne's Hexrod.Take means bamboo in Japanese. He has enhanced hexrod-like program by adding several functions, forinstance, input/output in either of units (inche, cm, grain, gram, etc.),guide spacing culculation, ferrule position/weight/size specificaiton,comparison of multiple stress curves and dimensions, recording rodmakingdetails in database, and so on. In addition to the taper data, you can also download his Take-Rod program from the following URL. http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/takerod.htm The URL shows you two blue lines at the bottom of the page for down load.Click one of these then down load is kicked up.Above line is self unzipping with installer, below is without installer.I don't know if it will show you english guidance. Why not try it. To install,unzip the downloaded file in any folder of your PC,execute setup.exe (automatically kicked),and install will start. Program is for Window 95 and upper versions. This program is now released as share-ware. If you keep using this program,you are being asked some amount of money to Mr. Omote. The sentences above are trunslation of his web.As I am not an user of this program, please ask further question to theauthor by posting to the list or e-mail him directly. Omote san, does your program shows English heading or guidance for foreignusers? Please answer yourself. Max Max,Thank you very much. I was just interested in a couple of thetapers in Mr.Omote's taper page. My computer doesn't show the numbers for thetapers,just thetitle. I will try to contact him.Shawn Max Satoh wrote: Hi (Hai), I'm still on the list, but am recently read only, sorry. Will come backsoon when I finish a study of which I am under experiment. Mr. Omote was one of my rodmaking colleague, though we do not havecontact to each other recently. Is there anything I can do for you? If it is trouble, please keep me away of it.If you need help, I am glad to do so. Max Shawn,Maybe our friend Max Satoh will jump in, if he's on the list. Ifnot,you mightcontact him through his website at:http://members.tripod.com/~maxrod/all/eoverview.html Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi guys,surfing around a bit tonight trying to wind downafterwriting aletter to BFR Magazine again and came across this site .....http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~omote/index.htmlIt is a Japanese site but has quite a few pictures and theguysure seems tohave done some research, OK enough of the small stuff.... The guyhas awicked taperarchive but I don't see any of the numbers, perhaps my computerdoesn'tshow thosecharacters although it does see a bunch of letters and symbols forthetext. Cananyone see the tapers in there?? There are several tapers therethatIknow for afact we don't have yet. I want in there!!!Shawn --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Apr 9 03:48:26 2001 f398mKS29322 Mon, 9 Apr 2001 05:47:40 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Anyone read Japanese?? Thanks Max,very informative.Shawn from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Apr 9 05:43:31 2001 f39AhTS00355 f39AhO062584; Subject: Re: finishing So, Bob, when you sand the hell out of the bloody thing, how do you handlethe wraps? Because when I try to sand the hell out of the wraps, I get intoall kinds of strife. Like, I take the trouble to do this sort of fancy continuous wrap under thestripper, and that is a real PITA with Gossamer; but not nearly as big aPITA as when you sand it and sand through the end wrap and have to do it allagain!! About the last big hurdle I am facing is the difficulty ofgetting the finish on my rods where I want it to be. I mean, I don't haveany problem with glue lines, with strip accuracy or with straightness, butman, am I ever getting sick of suede rods! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: finishing Bill,To me it isn't a constant. I use at least three coats, and sand thedevil out of them in between, but in some cases have used up to five coatsbefore I get the appearance i want. I think 2 coats would be more thansufficient for the protection we seek from the varnish, but I just sandandvarnish until I get the look I want out of the finish. Then again I'm oneof those types that has to pull my truck keys out of my pocket and look atthem in my hand before I lock the car, even though I KNOW they aren't inthetruck still... same with house keys, barn key, etc... (Can we spell"obsessive compulsive"?). Considering all the sanding I do, I probablydon't have the thickness of two full coats on the rod when it's complete.Varmor R-10 is what I use...John, are you using MoW Varnish or Polyurethane? Just curious... Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: channer Cc: rodmakers Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:36 AMSubject: Re: finishing Bill;I find 2 coats of Man-O-War to be plenty.John Bill Taylor wrote: Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes andmethods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearingwhy most folks recommend three and four coats of varnish. Regards,Bill from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Apr 9 05:56:56 2001 f39AutS00679 GAA06579; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Elmer's Probond One word of advice with the PUs, however. Since they use water to cure,keep it in a dry place (i.e., don't keep it in your garage if you livein a humid locale), or you'll get one rod and one tube of hard glue. Iknow these things from experience. Twice.dws. Bill Walters wrote: Harry, I took it back and then went out to the HomeDepot and found the right stuff in an 8 oz. bottle(should last me a while). The smaller hardware storesand craft places in my area just didn't carry it. GladI asked you guys before trying it. Elmer's has morethan one ProBond (which I didn't know or figure on).Thanks again,Bill Walters--- Harry Boyd wrote:Bill,I think you got the wrong stuff. The Probond Ihave isin a round jar, not an elongated oval like thecarpenter'sglue comes in. Harry Boyd Bill Walters wrote: Probond has been mentioned as a PU glue worthy offerrules and other tasks. Picked up some Elmer'sProbond today and it says, "Model and Hobbycement,bonds to Polystyrene Models and Toys." Is this thesame Probond those that use it, are using? Itmentionsno where on the package that its a polyurethaneglue. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Apr 9 06:07:14 2001 f39B7DS00951 f39B74065677; Subject: Re: Holding Strips for Planing No Robert. It was a point that I forgot to cover in my post. I have alwaysdone what you did, exactly. But using the spring clamp what happens is that the clamp effectivelybecomes your left hand (assuming that you are right handed). So you caneither leave a few inches at the butt end to allow for the plane to start,and I agree that there is some difficulty in getting the plane to bite to anaccurate depth when you start flat like that; or you can just place theclamp about 8 - 10 inches down the strip, start to plane, and (and this nextbit seems to me to be important) WITHOUT LIFTING THE PLANE from THEJOB,switch the clamp back to the butt end and continue to plane the pass. It sounds pretty Heath-Robinsonian, I know, but really is a lot easier thanit sounds. And I imagine that you'll finish up with a right hand grip thatwill be the envy of your friends! Yeah, me too! Much better than I was a few years ago. Just bloody 6 inchesshorter, and pastimes like flying kites and aeroplanes become difficult;however, it's not a bad posture for planing cane! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Holding Strips for Planing Peter, Small world, I also suffer from ankylosing spondylitis, though I'm muchbetter off than I was 20 years ago. I've heard others mention usingclampsof various sorts to hold the butt end of strips, but I have never beenableto visualize how this is done. Do you leave an extra 6 inches or so onthebutt end of the strip for clamping, or what? When I plane, I start planing at the very end of the strip with my lefthandin front of the plane. After 8 to 12 inches, I put my left hand behindtheplane and do the crossover thing. This seems to work OK, and feelsnaturalnow. The Morgan handmill uses a screw through the end of the strip toholdit down, and sacrifices about 3 inches at the end of the strip where themill cuts down to the taper that's been set on the anvil. It can makethistransition because it is just using carbide cutting tool inserts to scrapethe cane. However, a plane has a long, flat sole and doesn't seem to methat it could cut down to an accurate taper within a reasonable distance from an un-planed, clamped end of a strip. Am I missing something here? -- Robert----- Original Message -----From: "Peter McKean" Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:39 AMSubject: Holding Strips for Planing In case it's a help to anyone, I thought I'd pass on a suggestion; it'sjusta thing that I have been doing over the last three rods I have made, andithas been a great help to me. I always rest my forms, both rough and finishing forms, about 3cm abovethebenchtop, using a couple of removable pieces of pine that I have routedoutto hold the ends of the form snug, and that locate onto the benchtopwithacouple of dowels on each. This does a couple of things - it allows me togeta "top & bottom" grip on the strip for better purchase and reducedhaemorrhage, and it makes it very easy to keep the bench clean. I use acouple of movable blocks to support the arch, to stop it from dippingunderthe pressure of planing. Old hat, I know. But the last three rods I have been using one of those simplespring- actionwoodworking clamps with rubber-lined jaws to secure the butt end of thestrip to the planing form; I simply remove it each time I flip thestrip,and it takes absolutely no time and very little effort. The benefit is in the very positive location of the strip, and in thefactthat I can now devote both hands to operating the plane, and because Inolonger have to perform a hand crossing manoeuvre with the plane handandtheholding hand, I can walk the plane along the job, keeping a veryconstantvisual perspective the while. I must qualify all that by explaining that I have a very markeddisabilitydue to ankylosing spondylitis, a spinal condition , and what I considertobe a boon may not be of any use at all to anybody else. But it certainlyseems to improve my strip turnover time and the accuracy of thefinishedproduct; and it surely reduces accidental snicking of the steel formswiththe plane on those occasions when the plane just seems to "get away";because I am more in control with both hands, and because my head ismoreorless centred over the job, those "getaways" just seem not to happennow. Peter from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Apr 9 06:56:29 2001 f39BuSS01597 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's Forum Technically, I do believe that they DID publish a magazine, didn't they? I find it interesting that some of the people who were supporting GeorgeGehrke (well at least some of them) won't support Mark. Is it simplybecause of the 20 to 30 bucks? I don't think anyone on the list (that Iknow of) has contributed to George's endeavor. Maybe that's the point. I don't know. Allen Thramer wrote: Perhaps so , but Randy did't ask for 20 or 30 bucks for a nonexistentproduct. If the corp. didn't file a chapter 7 or something then we have beentaken advantage of and they exist due to the kind generosity of theirsubscribers (liberal definition: we wanted to publish a magazine, honest!)A.J. From: Todd Talsma Subject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's ForumDate: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 12:32:01 - 0400 Sounds like something that is already available on The Bamboo FlyrodMagazine web site. Randy Brewer wrote: _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from nobler@satx.rr.com Mon Apr 9 08:01:59 2001 f39D1wS02631 f39D0HUd015888;Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:00:17 -0500 Subject: Re: finishing I can't speak for Bob N., but it sounds like one's being in too big of ahurry, to sand a coat of varnish. Try leaving it in the drying cabinetseveral days, before trying to sand, and this only if the wraps have anumber of coats to fill them first, and they are properly W. or D. sanded(this often takes me a month). Then never sand with anything more coarsethan 1200 W. or D. ! This is just my personal thinking, but I'm willing towait several weeks to get a superior finish ! GMA from cathcreek@hotmail.com Mon Apr 9 08:24:12 2001 f39DOBS03754 Mon, 9 Apr 2001 06:24:09 -0700 Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:24:08 GMT Subject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's Forum FILETIME=[5BD45B80:01C0C0F8] Not sure where this is going, but I think Randy was just notifying the list of the web board he set up. He also said something to the effect that he is sorry if it reached someone not interested. Todd, it sounds like that is you, so maybe it should be left at that before folks start getting personal. I think we have hashed and rehashed the George thing as well as the bamboo magazine thing (hey, I was published in it!!!)Maybe we all have cabin fever and need to do some fishing-I know I do. Rob Clarkecathcreek@hotmail.com From: Todd Talsma CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's ForumDate: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 07:54:13 -0400 Technically, I do believe that they DID publish a magazine, didn't they? I find it interesting that some of the people who were supporting GeorgeGehrke (well at least some of them) won't support Mark. Is it simplybecause of the 20 to 30 bucks? I don't think anyone on the list (that Iknow of) has contributed to George's endeavor. Maybe that's the point.I don't know. Allen Thramer wrote: Perhaps so , but Randy did't ask for 20 or 30 bucks for a nonexistentproduct. If the corp. didn't file a chapter 7 or something then we have beentaken advantage of and they exist due to the kind generosity of theirsubscribers (liberal definition: we wanted to publish a magazine, honest!)A.J. From: Todd Talsma Subject: Re: Bamboo Rodmaker's ForumDate: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 12:32:01 - 0400 Sounds like something that is already available on The Bamboo FlyrodMagazine web site. Randy Brewer wrote: _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 08:58:04 2001 f39Dw3S04946 2001 06:58:02 PDT Subject: Leader Design - sort of related I spent quite a bit of time over the weekend getting the lines ready their bamboo rods. Also, how do silk lines affect the design? Personally, I make my own leaders, primarily because I find the buttsetions of extruded leaders to be far too heavy for general use. OnPVC lines, I use 36"-42" of .017 for 5 weights and .015 for 3 and 4wgts. Due to the fine tips on silk lines, I went down to .015 on 5 wgts and.013 on 3 and 4 wgts. All in Maxima, which is relatively stiff. These sizes seem to do best in the "flex test". I also shortened upmy leaders overall for silk. The typical extruded leader butt is in the .019 to .024 range. Also, I dislike the bulk of both nail knots and loops at the tip. into the line tip. Since you can't do that on silk, I worked out amethod to create a connector. I cut a 1.5" section from an Orvisbraided leader, slipped it over the line tip, then slipped the(sanded) leader in the other end and overalapped the two about 1/2"and doused the whole thing in Pliobond a few times. Thanks towhomever it was that suggested the pliobond for connections lastweek. I would not have tried it because I think of it as a contactcement, but it holds great and remains flexible. Jerry __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 9 09:14:34 2001 f39EEXS05808 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: finishing Peter,I sand the wraps with a popsickle stick with 1200 grit glued to it.you can sand a taper to the stick to get under the guides. When I get thatlast coat on and sanded, I polish it all out with 3M Finesse-It II MachinePolish, and it comes out looking like glass. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message----- So, Bob, when you sand the hell out of the bloody thing, how do you handlethe wraps? Because when I try to sand the hell out of the wraps, I get intoall kinds of strife. Like, I take the trouble to do this sort of fancy continuous wrap under thestripper, and that is a real PITA with Gossamer; but not nearly as big aPITA as when you sand it and sand through the end wrap and have to do itallagain!! About the last big hurdle I am facing is the difficulty ofgetting the finish on my rods where I want it to be. I mean, I don't haveany problem with glue lines, with strip accuracy or with straightness, butman, am I ever getting sick of suede rods! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Cc: "rodmakers" Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:47 PMSubject: Re: finishing Bill,To me it isn't a constant. I use at least three coats, and sand thedevil out of them in between, but in some cases have used up to fivecoatsbefore I get the appearance i want. I think 2 coats would be more thansufficient for the protection we seek from the varnish, but I just sandandvarnish until I get the look I want out of the finish. Then again I'moneof those types that has to pull my truck keys out of my pocket and lookatthem in my hand before I lock the car, even though I KNOW they aren't inthetruck still... same with house keys, barn key, etc... (Can we spell"obsessive compulsive"?). Considering all the sanding I do, I probablydon't have the thickness of two full coats on the rod when it's complete.Varmor R-10 is what I use...John, are you using MoW Varnish or Polyurethane? Just curious... Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: channer Cc: rodmakers Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:36 AMSubject: Re: finishing Bill;I find 2 coats of Man-O-War to be plenty.John Bill Taylor wrote: Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes andmethods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearingwhy most folks recommend three and four coats of varnish. Regards,Bill from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Apr 9 09:38:29 2001 f39EcSS06854 Subject: re: Finishing Does anyone spray finish cane rods? I know a guy who builds a lot ofgraph**e rods, and has refinished a dozen or so cane rods, who swears byHelmsman Spar in a spray can, finished out with 3M Finesse-it. Was thinkingof giving it a try, anyone else been down this road? from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Apr 9 12:28:21 2001 f39HSKS14016 Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:28:21 +0100 Subject: Re: Finishing Come on in George ! jmpio@nhbm.com wrote: Does anyone spray finish cane rods? I know a guy who builds a lot ofgraph**e rods, and has refinished a dozen or so cane rods, who swears byHelmsman Spar in a spray can, finished out with 3M Finesse-it. Wasthinkingof giving it a try, anyone else been down this road? from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Apr 9 14:31:51 2001 f39JVoS18715 ;Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:31:52 +0200 "rodmakers" Subject: Sv: Elmer's Probond f39JVpS18716 Buy the smallest bottle of PU available - it WILL end uphardening, no matter what You do. This stuff must be usedwhen fresh - shelf life is rather short. regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Elmer's Probond One word of advice with the PUs, however. Since they use water to cure,keep it in a dry place (i.e., don't keep it in your garage if you livein a humid locale), or you'll get one rod and one tube of hard glue. Iknow these things from experience. Twice.dws. Bill Walters wrote: Harry, I took it back and then went out to the HomeDepot and found the right stuff in an 8 oz. bottle(should last me a while). The smaller hardware storesand craft places in my area just didn't carry it. GladI asked you guys before trying it. Elmer's has morethan one ProBond (which I didn't know or figure on).Thanks again,Bill Walters--- Harry Boyd wrote:Bill,I think you got the wrong stuff. The Probond Ihave isin a round jar, not an elongated oval like thecarpenter'sglue comes in. Harry Boyd Bill Walters wrote: Probond has been mentioned as a PU glue worthy offerrules and other tasks. Picked up some Elmer'sProbond today and it says, "Model and Hobbycement,bonds to Polystyrene Models and Toys." Is this thesame Probond those that use it, are using? Itmentionsno where on the package that its a polyurethaneglue. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 16:49:02 2001 f39Ln1S25187 2001 14:49:04 PDT Subject: Heads up on the Real Southern Gathering The way the airline schedules work, the cheap seats sell first andthe schedules open up about 11 months prior to flight time. The flight schedules jsut opened up for March 4, 2002, which would bethe likely departure date from the U.S. Tickets to NZ are never $300, but now is the time to get the cheapestfares or frequent flier awards. I booked my departure today and willadd the return details in a couple of weeks when those schedules openup. We've been talking about going down there for about ten yearsnow and the gathering plus the 42 cent dollars sealed the deal. You can take a commuter from Auckland to Nelson for roughly $170 US. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Apr 9 16:53:07 2001 f39Lr6S25565 Subject: Lazy mans beveler Hi, I am just getting back to rod building after a year long forced hiatus.Wrist problems prevented me from being able to plane or wrap rods. I havebeen thinking about a powered beveller to prevent further flare-ups and havea design for one that I was going to build. Then last weekend I was planing some wood very thin (3/16" ) for anotherproject when I had an idea. Most surface planers don't work well on stockless than 1/4". To plane thin stock you lay it on a carrier and tack theedges with hot-melt glue. The effective thickness is now enough for theplaner to work properly. Applying this to rough planing... I took my rough forms and tacked a strip at the front and rear in the 87*side and ran it through the planer. In a few passes I was able to mill oneside of the strip. I then put the strip in the 60* side and ended up with amilled strip. Also since I have a dust collector on the planer there was nodust. Now I have a pile of strips ready for final planing. I tried this for butt sections only I have not tried it on tip strips. When running the form through don't try to get the strip flush with theform. You may end up with a snipe (extra bit taken by surface planers on theleading and trailing edge of a board) on your forms. Paul from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Apr 9 17:10:54 2001 f39MArS26474 Subject: Re: finishing It doesn't make sense to me to sand any coat except prior to the last one. Ireally don't care if there are imperfections in the first or second coat. Isand just prior to the last (3rd) coat. I use 800 grit W/D on the stick andwraps, wipe off with a lint free cloth saturated in mineral spirits. I wait atleast 2 days after the 2nd coat before sanding. Marty nobler wrote: I can't speak for Bob N., but it sounds like one's being in too big of ahurry, to sand a coat of varnish. Try leaving it in the drying cabinetseveral days, before trying to sand, and this only if the wraps have anumber of coats to fill them first, and they are properly W. or D. sanded(this often takes me a month). Then never sand with anything more coarsethan 1200 W. or D. ! This is just my personal thinking, but I'm willing towait several weeks to get a superior finish ! GMA from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Apr 9 17:21:27 2001 f39MLMS26969 Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:21:15 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook- Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Lazy mans beveler Rodmakers Hi Paul, There was a TV program a couple of months ago featuring and ol' rodmakerhere in Norway, using what I think You explaine. He had a bunch of fixed,non adjustable wooden planning forms he ran through his planer. Afterroughing, he used those forms, taking on pass at each sides all the waythrough final......... regardsdanny From: "Paul Goodwin" Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:53:00 -0400 Subject: Lazy mans beveler Hi, I am just getting back to rod building after a year long forced hiatus.Wrist problems prevented me from being able to plane or wrap rods. I havebeen thinking about a powered beveller to prevent further flare-ups andhavea design for one that I was going to build. Then last weekend I was planing some wood very thin (3/16" ) for anotherproject when I had an idea. Most surface planers don't work well on stockless than 1/4". To plane thin stock you lay it on a carrier and tack theedges with hot-melt glue. The effective thickness is now enough for theplaner to work properly. Applying this to rough planing... I took my rough forms and tacked a strip at the front and rear in the 87*side and ran it through the planer. In a few passes I was able to mill oneside of the strip. I then put the strip in the 60* side and ended up with amilled strip. Also since I have a dust collector on the planer there was nodust. Now I have a pile of strips ready for final planing. I tried this for butt sections only I have not tried it on tip strips. When running the form through don't try to get the strip flush with theform. You may end up with a snipe (extra bit taken by surface planers ontheleading and trailing edge of a board) on your forms. Paul from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Apr 9 18:04:08 2001 f39N47S28480 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Dial Indicator Standard f39N48S28481 Hi y'all -- I've been following this thread, and I've been wondering what I am going totrust when I get to the point that I'm measuring my strips. I am alreadyassuming that I will see some discrepancies between my different measuringmethods. I thought what I would do is to slab off a piece of my strip,measure it with all the devices I have, and then use the ultimate yardstick,our best optical comparator here at the plant. This will measure accuratelyand consistently to about .0001 or .0002". So I can do this repeatedly andget a feel for which of my own measuring techniques is most reliable andthen just trust that in the shop. If anyone wants to be the guinea pig and send me a couple pieces that youhave parted off while getting ready to glue up, measure them all three ways(apex - flat in all three directions) and then write down what you get.Label them sample 1, 2, 3, etc, and I'll measure them here. If I do a goodjob here, we should be able to figure out which of your measurements seemsmost accurate. Otherwise, I'll just wait until I finish my forms and try iton my own.... TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Dial Indicator Standard Here's something I thought might help explain what is going on whencalibrating a dial indicator, or a Waara V-block, for that matter. This wasdrawn by my friend Gåran Eriksson of Vasteras Sweden. M-D from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Apr 9 19:40:56 2001 f3A0epS01597 Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:40:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Dial Indicator Standard Hi Troy,Remind me of your address, and I'll get some strips in the mail this week.Do you think little 3" cut-offs will be okay? Harry "Miller, Troy" wrote: Hi y'all -- I've been following this thread, and I've been wondering what I am going totrust when I get to the point that I'm measuring my strips. I am alreadyassuming that I will see some discrepancies between my differentmeasuringmethods. I thought what I would do is to slab off a piece of my strip,measure it with all the devices I have, and then use the ultimate yardstick,our best optical comparator here at the plant. This will measureaccuratelyand consistently to about .0001 or .0002". So I can do this repeatedly andget a feel for which of my own measuring techniques is most reliable andthen just trust that in the shop. If anyone wants to be the guinea pig and send me a couple pieces that youhave parted off while getting ready to glue up, measure them all threeways(apex - flat in all three directions) and then write down what you get.Label them sample 1, 2, 3, etc, and I'll measure them here. If I do a goodjob here, we should be able to figure out which of your measurementsseemsmost accurate. Otherwise, I'll just wait until I finish my forms and try iton my own.... TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 09:03 PM Subject: Dial Indicator Standard Here's something I thought might help explain what is going on whencalibrating a dial indicator, or a Waara V-block, for that matter. This wasdrawn by my friend Gåran Eriksson of Vasteras Sweden. M-D --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Apr 9 20:08:40 2001 f3A18dS02445 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:08:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Straining varnish f3A18eS02446 Shawn, I've used nylons (for filtering) and also the bag strainers from paint shops. The cone filters I've seen at paint shops are not as fine of a mesh as the bagtype. Chris mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Shawn Pineo 04/08/01 05:54PM >>>Hi all,I've come across a new (to me) problem with my Spar urethane. Itseems Ihave some dust in it. I was going to filter it but was unsure of what exactlyto use.Before I would just set the spar aside to use on some un-important project,but nowthat I am drip finishing my rods I have a considerable amount of moneyinvested inspar so I would like to filter it.I know there are paint filters out there but they don't seem very fine.Would coffee filters work or would they just contaminate it worse?? I'mthinking thatthe dust/contaminant came in through my thinner when I cleaned the driptube as thefirst dip went good. I agree with (I think it was Peter??) when he said thereareallot of contaminants in thinners and solvents, I'm thinking of switching tosomething else??Any advice on these problems would be appreciated, ShawnP.S. I don't think my local home brewing supplier would like me running mysparthrough his rental wine filtration system, so don't even suggest that one,unless ofcourse you could recommend a way of doing it undetected ;^) Shawn from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Apr 9 20:24:11 2001 f3A1OAS02893 Subject: Re: Straining varnish Shawn,I have strained paint for many years thru nylons. This is the best route. Just remember to take them off your wife first, and i almost forgot washthem too.Bret from bjust@bellsouth.net Mon Apr 9 20:37:14 2001 f3A1bDS03338 Subject: Helmsman Spray I don't have much experience with finishes, but I did try to finish myfirst rod with Helmsman Spar in the spray can. The results weresatisfactory, but not nearly as good as the finishes I have seen onother rods by the makers who dip or use a drip tube. I did not polishit out, as your friend does, so maybe this accounts for his results. Iam currently setting up a drip station for my finishing. I remember someone once recommending against a satin or semi-glossfinish as a way to get a low gloss finish. I think the recommended waywas to use a gloss varnish and polish it out with the first two steps ofa 3-step automotive polish. Is this correct? Why should I not usesatin? Brian from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Apr 9 20:43:55 2001 f3A1hsS03878 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:43:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Helmsman Spray f3A1htS03879 I have used a satin spar varnish on rods in the past with a dip tube method,and I remember it was important to stir it well just prior to use, otherwisethere were streaks of gloss in the dried satin finish. Other then that, I'm notsure what problems there might have been with the finish itself. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Brian Justiss 04/09/01 06:42PM >>>I don't have much experience with finishes, but I did try to finish myfirst rod with Helmsman Spar in the spray can. The results weresatisfactory, but not nearly as good as the finishes I have seen onother rods by the makers who dip or use a drip tube. I did not polishit out, as your friend does, so maybe this accounts for his results. Iam currently setting up a drip station for my finishing. I remember someone once recommending against a satin or semi-glossfinish as a way to get a low gloss finish. I think the recommended waywas to use a gloss varnish and polish it out with the first two steps ofa 3-step automotive polish. Is this correct? Why should I not usesatin? Brian from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 9 21:57:13 2001 f3A2vCS05984 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: finishing Marty,The reasons I sand each coat, other than to make sure my finish at eachstage is both level and flawless, is that varnishes, urethanes, paints, etc,have a time frame in which recoating is necessary to form a chemical bondwith the previous coat. With the finish I use, that time frame is 4 hours.If you don't recoat within 4 hours, then a chemical bond with the previouscoat just does not occur. If you wait more than the 4 hours, then your onlyfeasable option is to sand so that you will have a physical bond with theprevious coat. If you do neither then all you have is one very thin coat offinish setting on top of another very thin coat and if you get a scratch,cut, gouge, etc., in the outer coat, then the finish is very prone topeeling... and it will peel like an orange off of the previous coat, nomatter how clean the previous coat was when you applied the outer coat. Itmay not peel today, or tomorrow or 5 years from now, but eventually it will.How do I know this... up until 8 or 9 years ago, I did not see the point insanding between coats... I've refinished a lot of my work rods from thatperiod because of the peeling problem... a problem that didn't always showup right away. On some of these rods, the problem showed up within a yearor so, but on some of them the problem didn't show up for 5 to 10 years.About 40 or 50 rods into this game, it was explained to me by someone veryknowledgable on finishes, why it is necessary to either put on coat in thetime frame that would give a chemical bond or to sand to insure a properphysical bond, if the next coat was put on outside that time frame. None ofthe rods that I have sanded each coat on have a peeling problem. The earlyrods that I experienced peeling problem with were mostly new rods, and a lotwere refinishes or restorations, but the problem did exist and since I'vestarted sanding between coats, I haven't had even one problem with a finishpeeling from a glossy previous coat. Just my 2 cents and my experience, Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: finishing It doesn't make sense to me to sand any coat except prior to the last one.Ireally don't care if there are imperfections in the first or second coat. Isand just prior to the last (3rd) coat. I use 800 grit W/D on the stick andwraps, wipe off with a lint free cloth saturated in mineral spirits. I waitatleast 2 days after the 2nd coat before sanding. Marty nobler wrote: I can't speak for Bob N., but it sounds like one's being in too big of ahurry, to sand a coat of varnish. Try leaving it in the drying cabinetseveral days, before trying to sand, and this only if the wraps have anumber of coats to fill them first, and they are properly W. or D. sanded(this often takes me a month). Then never sand with anything morecoarsethan 1200 W. or D. ! This is just my personal thinking, but I'm willingtowait several weeks to get a superior finish ! GMA from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 9 22:03:40 2001 f3A33eS06276 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Helmsman Spray Brian,Satin varnishes have silica (sp?) in them to give the semi- glossappearance. Best way is to sand them down, and polish back up to thedegreeof gloss you want. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message----- Subject: Helmsman Spray I don't have much experience with finishes, but I did try to finish myfirst rod with Helmsman Spar in the spray can. The results weresatisfactory, but not nearly as good as the finishes I have seen onother rods by the makers who dip or use a drip tube. I did not polishit out, as your friend does, so maybe this accounts for his results. Iam currently setting up a drip station for my finishing. I remember someone once recommending against a satin or semi-glossfinish as a way to get a low gloss finish. I think the recommended waywas to use a gloss varnish and polish it out with the first two steps ofa 3-step automotive polish. Is this correct? Why should I not usesatin? Brian from miangler@yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 22:53:36 2001 f3A3rZS07798 2001 20:53:38 PDT Subject: P.H.Y. Prosperity I promised I'd ask this for a friend who won this rodon ebay minus the reel seat. Can anyone supply eithera photograph of or a resource for getting a reel seatto match this rod? Thanks, Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from miangler@yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 23:01:36 2001 f3A41aS08148 2001 21:01:39 PDT Subject: Calibrating the Dial Indicator At the risk of coming off as a complete dolt (and Imust apologize to Winston Binney and Ralph MacKenziewho walked me through this) can someone give me theblow by blow on how to calibrate my dial indicator. How do I know whether or not it is off? Do I juststart it off "thoretical zero" plane a strip and thenmeasure it with the caliper to find out? I feel likeif I could just get over this hump I might actually beable to do this! Howell says in his book that "thisshould be obvious" which really makes me feel stupid!Anyway thanks again in advance for rescuing me from myself-imposed despair! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from b2g@jps.net Mon Apr 9 23:26:52 2001 f3A4QqS09141 0000 Subject: Polyurethane Glue Organization: Badges 2 Go To all, Today I was at the Hardware Store and they started stocking this =polyurethane glue that is made by OSI Sealants, in Mentor, OH =(www.osisealants.com). Any way on the bottle label it reads, "PL =Polyurethane Premium Wood Glue." My question for the list is has anyone =used this glue on there rods? If so how has it held up? Finely did you =have to wet the bamboo strips before applying the glue? Thanks in =advance for you help. Robert H. To all, Today I was at the Hardware Store and= stocking this polyurethane glue that is made by OSI Sealants, in Mentor, = Any = RobertH. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Apr 9 23:40:24 2001 f3A4eNS09676 VAA29392; Subject: Re: Calibrating the Dial Indicator Let me take a stab at it,Be sure you do not bent, dent, blunt the tip of your 60degree tip. Gentlyplace your dial indicator on your metal form with the 60 tip touching theflat area. Your base should be adjusted on your dial indicator to allow itto be able to this. When you have your dial indicator in its base with thetip on the flat part of the form you will set the face of the indicator tozero with the needle. Tighten the face and now you are at 0. If you areusing rods to measure just take off the tip and repeat the procedure above.You can then place the 60 tip in the groove of the form and measure thedepth. You typically will be reading it backwards. On alot of indicators itis the inside red numbers. I hope this helps if I am off please let us know Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Calibrating the Dial Indicator At the risk of coming off as a complete dolt (and Imust apologize to Winston Binney and Ralph MacKenziewho walked me through this) can someone give me theblow by blow on how to calibrate my dial indicator.How do I know whether or not it is off? Do I juststart it off "thoretical zero" plane a strip and thenmeasure it with the caliper to find out? I feel likeif I could just get over this hump I might actually beable to do this! Howell says in his book that "thisshould be obvious" which really makes me feel stupid!Anyway thanks again in advance for rescuing me from myself-imposed despair! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from b2g@jps.net Mon Apr 9 23:58:44 2001 f3A4whS10459 0000 Subject: Rod Info. Organization: Badges 2 Go Hello, I have acquired a rod from my Grandfather and I was wondering if anyone =can help with information, identification, fly line weight, rod action, = This rod is a 3 piece rod with two tips measuring 8'-6", no idea what =weight it is. The real seat is a down locking plastic material with NS =plated hardware. It doesn't have a signature but it has a manufacture =label that says "Montague Rapidan" with a pitcher of a fish in the =middle. As far as the wraps go they are done in a yellow thread for all =the guides and ferrules, there is intermediate wraps throughout the =entire rod which appears to be done in a maroon color thread. For the =guides, there is a ring type hook keeper and a very small stripper guide =that has a red material in the middle (looks like the rod was built to =use a silk fly line). All the other guides are the standard snake =guides that look like they were heated to give them a blue effect. The =ferrules are the NS plated type that were wrapped with the same yellow =thread and pinned. The finish is in good shape with one or two small =areas that show signs of thinning and wear from use. Hopefully I given a good enough description of the rod. If you need any =further description of parts of the rod or photo's let me know. So how =about it, can anyone help with this one? Thanks for you help. Robert H. Hello, I have acquired a rod from my = This rod is a 3 piece rod with two tips = manufacture label that says "Montague Rapidan" with a pitcher of a fish = there is a ring type hook keeper and a very small stripper guide that = plated type that were wrapped with the same yellow thread and = finish is in good shape with one or two small areas that show signs of = and wear from use. Hopefully I given a good enough = one? Thanks for you help. RobertH. from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Apr 10 05:19:06 2001 f3AAJ5S16176 sender ) Subject: Re: finishing Bob, I agree with you on sanding each coat on Polyurethane finishes. When IuseTung Oil varnish (spar) I see no need. Best, Marty Bob Nunley wrote: Marty,The reasons I sand each coat, other than to make sure my finish ateachstage is both level and flawless, is that varnishes, urethanes, paints, etc,have a time frame in which recoating is necessary to form a chemical bondwith the previous coat. With the finish I use, that time frame is 4 hours.If you don't recoat within 4 hours, then a chemical bond with the previouscoat just does not occur. If you wait more than the 4 hours, then youronlyfeasable option is to sand so that you will have a physical bond with theprevious coat. If you do neither then all you have is one very thin coat offinish setting on top of another very thin coat and if you get a scratch,cut, gouge, etc., in the outer coat, then the finish is very prone topeeling... and it will peel like an orange off of the previous coat, nomatter how clean the previous coat was when you applied the outer coat. Itmay not peel today, or tomorrow or 5 years from now, but eventually itwill.How do I know this... up until 8 or 9 years ago, I did not see the point insanding between coats... I've refinished a lot of my work rods from thatperiod because of the peeling problem... a problem that didn't always showup right away. On some of these rods, the problem showed up within ayearor so, but on some of them the problem didn't show up for 5 to 10 years.About 40 or 50 rods into this game, it was explained to me by someoneveryknowledgable on finishes, why it is necessary to either put on coat in thetime frame that would give a chemical bond or to sand to insure a properphysical bond, if the next coat was put on outside that time frame. Noneofthe rods that I have sanded each coat on have a peeling problem. The earlyrods that I experienced peeling problem with were mostly new rods, and alotwere refinishes or restorations, but the problem did exist and since I'vestarted sanding between coats, I haven't had even one problem with afinishpeeling from a glossy previous coat. Just my 2 cents and my experience, Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message-----From: none Date: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:11 PMSubject: Re: finishing It doesn't make sense to me to sand any coat except prior to the lastone.Ireally don't care if there are imperfections in the first or second coat. Isand just prior to the last (3rd) coat. I use 800 grit W/D on the stick andwraps, wipe off with a lint free cloth saturated in mineral spirits. I waitatleast 2 days after the 2nd coat before sanding. Marty nobler wrote: I can't speak for Bob N., but it sounds like one's being in too big of ahurry, to sand a coat of varnish. Try leaving it in the drying cabinetseveral days, before trying to sand, and this only if the wraps have anumber of coats to fill them first, and they are properly W. or D.sanded(this often takes me a month). Then never sand with anything morecoarsethan 1200 W. or D. ! This is just my personal thinking, but I'm willingtowait several weeks to get a superior finish ! GMA from gink@tds.net Tue Apr 10 06:21:34 2001 f3ABLYS17158 Organization: Gehrke's Gink & Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods Subject: George Gehrke Fly Rod Company ______ For those who wish to "Roll Their Own" will get them a COMPLETEKITwhich includes some of the finest quality hardware available in theindustry. The BASTARD KIT is our NEW Blonde Bastard Series via 2 PieceRods,7.5 in length for 3, 4, 5 WT Fly lines for ONLY $252! A price farbelow everyone thought impossible! I have kept my promise to fly fishing, roff, and all those who daredme. Consider this: Depending upon the builder, My company will provide thesameequipment others would charge thousands of dollars to purchase FINISHEDand/or COMPLETED! Your name may not be T & T or Granger, but it doesn'tmean they are better then YOU! Satisfaction will be 100% guaranteed. Any opinions will be appreciated gentlemen, we (together) and with Internet support, we started thisproject of "Production Line Bamboo Fly Rods". All I'm saying is this. I've kept my word. All blanks come with one coat of base and one coat of Varnish. Theferrules will not be attached. The entire fly rod kit will have all thehardware necessary. Questions & Comments & Support welcomed. -- (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html fine bamboo flyrods & blanks from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Tue Apr 10 06:22:44 2001 f3ABMiS17297 Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:19:41 -0400 Subject: Re: finishing Recently there has been quite alot of discussion and information regardingheat treating and how PHY heat treated his rods with the ring of fire. In light of this new question on finishing, how did PHY finish his rods? Idon't know much about PHY's rods other than what I have learned here, somaybe his rods aren't noted for their finish. It just seems that aprocedure, such as Bob's, where a great deal of time is spent sandingbetween coats, isn't necessarily time or cost effective. Fine for thefellow that might make only a few rods a year but a real obstacle to anyonetrying to produce more while still maintaining a quality product. What were some of the finishing procedures of the makers from the past? ThanksTim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: finishing Bob, I agree with you on sanding each coat on Polyurethane finishes. WhenI useTung Oil varnish (spar) I see no need. Best, Marty Bob Nunley wrote: Marty,The reasons I sand each coat, other than to make sure my finish ateachstage is both level and flawless, is that varnishes, urethanes, paints,etc,have a time frame in which recoating is necessary to form a chemicalbondwith the previous coat. With the finish I use, that time frame is 4hours.If you don't recoat within 4 hours, then a chemical bond with thepreviouscoat just does not occur. If you wait more than the 4 hours, then youronlyfeasable option is to sand so that you will have a physical bond withtheprevious coat. If you do neither then all you have is one very thincoat offinish setting on top of another very thin coat and if you get ascratch,cut, gouge, etc., in the outer coat, then the finish is very prone topeeling... and it will peel like an orange off of the previous coat, nomatter how clean the previous coat was when you applied the outer coat.Itmay not peel today, or tomorrow or 5 years from now, but eventually itwill.How do I know this... up until 8 or 9 years ago, I did not see the pointinsanding between coats... I've refinished a lot of my work rods from thatperiod because of the peeling problem... a problem that didn't alwaysshowup right away. On some of these rods, the problem showed up within ayearor so, but on some of them the problem didn't show up for 5 to 10 years.About 40 or 50 rods into this game, it was explained to me by someoneveryknowledgable on finishes, why it is necessary to either put on coat inthetime frame that would give a chemical bond or to sand to insure a properphysical bond, if the next coat was put on outside that time frame.None ofthe rods that I have sanded each coat on have a peeling problem. Theearlyrods that I experienced peeling problem with were mostly new rods, and alotwere refinishes or restorations, but the problem did exist and sinceI'vestarted sanding between coats, I haven't had even one problem with afinishpeeling from a glossy previous coat. Just my 2 cents and my experience, Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message-----From: none Date: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:11 PMSubject: Re: finishing It doesn't make sense to me to sand any coat except prior to the lastone.Ireally don't care if there are imperfections in the first or secondcoat. Isand just prior to the last (3rd) coat. I use 800 grit W/D on the stickandwraps, wipe off with a lint free cloth saturated in mineral spirits. Iwaitatleast 2 days after the 2nd coat before sanding. Marty nobler wrote: I can't speak for Bob N., but it sounds like one's being in too bigof ahurry, to sand a coat of varnish. Try leaving it in the dryingcabinetseveral days, before trying to sand, and this only if the wraps haveanumber of coats to fill them first, and they are properly W. or D.sanded(this often takes me a month). Then never sand with anything morecoarsethan 1200 W. or D. ! This is just my personal thinking, but I'mwillingtowait several weeks to get a superior finish ! GMA from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 10 06:56:08 2001 f3ABu7S17932 Subject: Re: Calibrating the Dial Indicator Guys,I sent this awhile back and am reposting it as some were kind enough to sayithelped. Rereading it I see it's necessary to mention the "calibrator" isa small block of metal with a 1/8" hole drilled to a depth such that the 60deg point can't possibly hit the bottm (will rest on its shoulders). Ifthere are more questions, fire away!Art The problem that you are not dealing with in your hypothesis is that whenyou set the indicator to zero you are using the ACTUAL point and when youmeasure the depth you are using a "virtual" point (there's that computerterm again).If the point has been dinged the shoulders won't meet at theactual point and when THEY tell you the depth of the groove there will be adiscrepancy between the actual depth and the virtual depth (the indicatorthinks the surface is farther away than it really is). I guess it would befair to say that your depth reading will be accurate but your initialzeroing will have been off so that the difference will be computedincorrectly.The use of the calibrator sets your zero using the shoulders ofthe point (what you're actually measuring the vee with) so that there is nopossibility of the zeroing and the measuring being out of synch with eachother.This will involve seeing (one-half) the tip as a 30-60-90 deg triangleand using trig to find what the indicator "THINKS" is the point's position.I'm going to try to show a diagram here but I don't have much hope for it. top is 1/2 the hole's width (1/16" in previous example)-------------| / 60 deg | /| /| /| /| /| /| /| /| /| /|/ 30 deg The vertical side is the depth the SHOULDERS will say the groove is (thediagonal is the shoulder of the point). If you set your indicator on theform and call THAT zero when it sits there, your (non)point and shoulderswill be in synch with each other. The vertical length of the triangle will be 1.732 times the width of the top(of our triangle--not the hole (Trust me, I've been teaching this tofreshmen for thirty-one years)), so it'll be 1.732 X (1/16) or 1.732 X .0625or 0.10825". This is of course true ONLY if you use an accurate 1/8 " wide hole. Changethe hole width and the geometry still works but you'll need to compute thehalf-width of your hole times the 1.732 yourself.If this helps let me know; if not fire back your questions. If the picturestinks I have a feeling we're going to be in a real pickle though.(I'll giveyou instructions on how to draw it yourself)Art Art The problem that you are not dealing with in your hypothesis is that whenyou set the indicator to zero you are using the ACTUAL point and when youmeasure the depth you are using a "virtual" point (there's that computerterm again).If the point has been dinged the shoulders won't meet at theactual point and when THEY tell you the depth of the groove there will be adiscrepancy between the actual depth and the virtual depth (the indicatorthinks the surface is farther away than it really is). I guess it would befair to say that your depth reading will be accurate but your initialzeroing will have been off so that the difference will be computedincorrectly.The use of the calibrator sets your zero using the shoulders ofthe point (what you're actually measuring the vee with) so that there is nopossibility of the zeroing and the measuring being out of synch with eachother.This will involve seeing (one-half) the tip as a 30-60-90 deg triangleand using trig to find what the indicator "THINKS" is the point's position.I'm going to try to show a diagram here but I don't have much hope for it. top is 1/2 the hole's width (1/16" in previous example)-------------| / 60 deg from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 10 07:05:21 2001 f3AC5KS18156 f3AC5DT07202;Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:05:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Calibrating the Dial Indicator Mike,The easiest way I found is to set you calipers to .1155.Set the 60* point in the .1155 caliper gap with theindicator block flat on the caliper blades. Rotate theface of the dial indicator to zero, tighten the face setset knob.I have had no problems with getting the right depth in theforms using this method.I do not take credit for this, a machinist friend put meon to it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mike Janik wrote: At the risk of coming off as a complete dolt (and Imust apologize to Winston Binney and Ralph MacKenziewho walked me through this) can someone give me theblow by blow on how to calibrate my dial indicator.How do I know whether or not it is off? Do I juststart it off "thoretical zero" plane a strip and thenmeasure it with the caliper to find out? I feel likeif I could just get over this hump I might actually beable to do this! Howell says in his book that "thisshould be obvious" which really makes me feel stupid!Anyway thanks again in advance for rescuing me from myself-imposed despair! Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 07:18:23 2001 f3ACIMS18582 Subject: How to deal with spam. Was: George Gehrke Fly Rod Company Hi, Sorry for the bandwidth but this may save some in the long run. When I get spam email I forward the note to abuse@ with ashortnote saying that the email was unwanted unsolicited. The ISP needs the fullheaders from the original spam message to be able to act on it. To get the headers in outlook express highlight the message and in the"file" pull-down click on properties. In the pop-up click on the details taband then hit the message source button. This gives you the message withthefull headers. Click on the text then hit ctrl-A and ctrl-C. This copies themessage into your clipboard. Close the pop-ups and click on new mail. The message should be sent "abuse" at the senders domain. In this caseabuse@tds.net, subject should be spam reportIn the body of the note hit ctrl-V and that will paste the spam into themessage. Add a note with your complaint and send it off.See the attached note. I used to get about 40 spam emails a week and after sending these out inresponse to every one I am down to one a month. Paul ================================= Dear Sir on Madam. I recently received this email from a subscriber of your services. The emailis both unwanted and unsolicited. It was also broadcast to a non-commerciallist server. Please ensure that your users do not spam me nor anyone else in the future. Thank you f3ABLrS17212; f3ABLYS17158 Organization: Gehrke's Gink & Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods Subject: George Gehrke Fly Rod Company ______ For those who wish to "Roll Their Own" will get them a COMPLETEKITwhich includes some of the finest quality hardware available in theindustry. The BASTARD KIT is our NEW Blonde Bastard Series via 2 PieceRods,7.5 in length for 3, 4, 5 WT Fly lines for ONLY $252! A price farbelow everyone thought impossible! I have kept my promise to fly fishing, roff, and all those who daredme. Consider this: Depending upon the builder, My company will provide thesameequipment others would charge thousands of dollars to purchase FINISHEDand/or COMPLETED! Your name may not be T & T or Granger, but it doesn'tmean they are better then YOU! Satisfaction will be 100% guaranteed. Any opinions will be appreciated gentlemen, we (together) and with Internet support, we started thisproject of "Production Line Bamboo Fly Rods". All I'm saying is this.I've kept my word. All blanks come with one coat of base and one coat of Varnish. Theferrules will not be attached. The entire fly rod kit will have all thehardware necessary. Questions & Comments & Support welcomed. -- (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.htmlfine bamboo flyrods & blanks from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 10 07:20:32 2001 f3ACKVS18740 Subject: RE: Calibrating the Dial Indicator Rereading it I see it's necessary to mention the "calibrator" isa small block of metal with a 1/8" hole drilled to a depth such that the 60deg point can't possibly hit the bottm (will rest on its shoulders) Art, if I may be so bold as to add to your instructions....... Lacking agauge block with a "reamed hole" one can use a caliper to accomplish thesame. Simply set it at 1/8" (or what ever dia. you choose to work with),set your indicator on it and proceed.best regards,Gary H. from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 10 07:39:50 2001 f3ACdoS19405 Subject: RE: Lazy mans beveller Paul,G. Lawton Moss is now smiling down at you. You have just modernized his"former board" planning method.-) Gary H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Lazy mans beveler Hi, I am just getting back to rod building after a year long forced hiatus.Wrist problems prevented me from being able to plane or wrap rods. I havebeen thinking about a powered beveller to prevent further flare-ups and havea design for one that I was going to build. Then last weekend I was planing some wood very thin (3/16" ) for anotherproject when I had an idea. Most surface planers don't work well on stockless than 1/4". To plane thin stock you lay it on a carrier and tack theedges with hot-melt glue. The effective thickness is now enough for theplaner to work properly. Applying this to rough planing... I took my rough forms and tacked a strip at the front and rear in the 87*side and ran it through the planer. In a few passes I was able to mill oneside of the strip. I then put the strip in the 60* side and ended up with amilled strip. Also since I have a dust collector on the planer there was nodust. Now I have a pile of strips ready for final planing. I tried this for butt sections only I have not tried it on tip strips. When running the form through don't try to get the strip flush with theform. You may end up with a snipe (extra bit taken by surface planers on theleading and trailing edge of a board) on your forms. Paul from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Apr 10 09:05:12 2001 f3AE5CS22621 0000 (63.228.44.87) " Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: finishing Where do we get 3-M Finesse-it?-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: finishing Peter,I sand the wraps with a popsickle stick with 1200 grit glued to it.you can sand a taper to the stick to get under the guides. When I get thatlast coat on and sanded, I polish it all out with 3M Finesse-It II MachinePolish, and it comes out looking like glass. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message-----From: Peter McKean Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 AMSubject: Re: finishing So, Bob, when you sand the hell out of the bloody thing, how do you handlethe wraps? Because when I try to sand the hell out of the wraps, I getintoall kinds of strife. Like, I take the trouble to do this sort of fancy continuous wrap underthestripper, and that is a real PITA with Gossamer; but not nearly as big aPITA as when you sand it and sand through the end wrap and have to do itallagain!! About the last big hurdle I am facing is the difficulty ofgetting the finish on my rods where I want it to be. I mean, I don't haveany problem with glue lines, with strip accuracy or with straightness, butman, am I ever getting sick of suede rods! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Cc: "rodmakers" Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:47 PMSubject: Re: finishing Bill,To me it isn't a constant. I use at least three coats, and sandthedevil out of them in between, but in some cases have used up to fivecoatsbefore I get the appearance i want. I think 2 coats would be more thansufficient for the protection we seek from the varnish, but I just sandandvarnish until I get the look I want out of the finish. Then again I'moneof those types that has to pull my truck keys out of my pocket and lookatthem in my hand before I lock the car, even though I KNOW they aren't inthetruck still... same with house keys, barn key, etc... (Can we spell"obsessive compulsive"?). Considering all the sanding I do, I probablydon't have the thickness of two full coats on the rod when it'scomplete.Varmor R-10 is what I use...John, are you using MoW Varnish or Polyurethane? Just curious... Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: channer Cc: rodmakers Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:36 AMSubject: Re: finishing Bill;I find 2 coats of Man-O-War to be plenty.John Bill Taylor wrote: Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes andmethods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearingwhy most folks recommend three and four coats of varnish. Regards,Bill from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Apr 10 09:50:08 2001 f3AEo7S25105 Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:49:59 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook- Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: finishing Dave, I got mine from a friend running a auto body/paint shop. It is a 3M product,and is one white liquid of fine rubbing compound and one part of greypolishing liquid. I think they are called Perfect-It and Finess-It, I can'tcheck it now, cause' I have'em two unlabeled tubes..... Happy Easter,danny From: "Dave Norling" Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:56:06 -0500 " RodMakers List Serve" Subject: Re: finishing Where do we get 3-M Finesse-it?-----Original Message-----From: Bob Nunley Date: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:15 AMSubject: Re: finishing Peter,I sand the wraps with a popsickle stick with 1200 grit glued to it.you can sand a taper to the stick to get under the guides. When I getthatlast coat on and sanded, I polish it all out with 3M Finesse-It II MachinePolish, and it comes out looking like glass. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message-----From: Peter McKean Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 AMSubject: Re: finishing So, Bob, when you sand the hell out of the bloody thing, how do youhandlethe wraps? Because when I try to sand the hell out of the wraps, I getintoall kinds of strife. Like, I take the trouble to do this sort of fancy continuous wrap underthestripper, and that is a real PITA with Gossamer; but not nearly as big aPITA as when you sand it and sand through the end wrap and have to doitallagain!! About the last big hurdle I am facing is the difficulty ofgetting the finish on my rods where I want it to be. I mean, I don't haveany problem with glue lines, with strip accuracy or with straightness,butman, am I ever getting sick of suede rods! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Cc: "rodmakers" Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:47 PMSubject: Re: finishing Bill,To me it isn't a constant. I use at least three coats, and sandthedevil out of them in between, but in some cases have used up to fivecoatsbefore I get the appearance i want. I think 2 coats would be more thansufficient for the protection we seek from the varnish, but I just sandandvarnish until I get the look I want out of the finish. Then again I'moneof those types that has to pull my truck keys out of my pocket andlookatthem in my hand before I lock the car, even though I KNOW they aren'tinthetruck still... same with house keys, barn key, etc... (Can we spell"obsessive compulsive"?). Considering all the sanding I do, I probablydon't have the thickness of two full coats on the rod when it'scomplete.Varmor R-10 is what I use...John, are you using MoW Varnish or Polyurethane? Just curious... Later,Bob -----Original Message-----From: channer Cc: rodmakers Date: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:36 AMSubject: Re: finishing Bill;I find 2 coats of Man-O-War to be plenty.John Bill Taylor wrote: Just hoping to stimulate a discussion on the various finishes andmethods used to varnish rods. I am especially interested in hearingwhy most folks recommend three and four coats of varnish. Regards,Bill from rextutor@about.com Tue Apr 10 12:11:52 2001 f3AHBpS01939 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 10:10:55 -0700 Subject: Bastard Rod Kit George,Please send me an email address that works. I have a friend who is interested in the kit . gink@tds.net is not a valid email adress and has been rejected by yahoo and about.com email servers.thanks,Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Apr 10 12:24:15 2001 f3AHO1S02832 NAA27523; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Bastard Rod Kit --------------2BB845F2FB071CA2D4C8A221 BTW, the gink@ address and product has been invalidated by the bamboocommunity :). Rex Tutor wrote: George,Please send me an email address that works. I havea friend who isinterested in the kit .gink@tds.net is not a valid email adress and hasbeen rejected byyahoo and about.com email servers.thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account athttp://About.com --------------2BB845F2FB071CA2D4C8A221 BTW, the gink@ address and product has been invalidated by the bamboocommunity:).Rex Tutor wrote: George,Please send me an email address that works. I have a friend whoisinterested in the kit .gink@tds.net is not a valid email adress and has been rejectedbyyahoo and about.com email servers.thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com --------------2BB845F2FB071CA2D4C8A221-- from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Apr 10 13:00:15 2001 f3AI0ES04717 Subject: Re: George Gehrke Hey George what's chrappenen?$250 for a rod that's a good as a $2000 T&T. could you extend me a loan? LOLWhen I first open your email I thought it was one of those spam email's = from those pesky bill collectors.Do you guarantee mine will come out as good as a T&T?Please email me off list to discuss your return policy.Can't wait to get started on it, does it come with a aluminumreel seat? With one of those fancy foam grips?One can only hope.Tony Miller Hey George what's =chrappenen?$250 for a rod that's a good as a$2000 = T&T.Sounds good ,but I'm a little short of = now could you extend me a loan? =LOLWhen I first open your email I thought = of those spam email's from those pesky bill collectors.Do you guarantee mine will come out as= T&T?Please email me off list to discuss = policy.Can't wait to get started on it, does = a aluminumreel seat? With one of those fancyfoam = can only hope.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 10 13:16:33 2001 f3AIGSS05547 Subject: Setting Dial indicator Mike,The easiest way I found is to set you calipers to.1155.Set the 60* point in the .1155 caliper gap withthe(Clip) After posting the above I got several off listquestions as to how it can be accurate so Ithought I would post the reply I sent to them.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com If you set the 60* point at .1155 and then set thepoint on a flat surface and the point is perfect,you will see that the dial will be at zero. If thedial is not at zero andis say .002 then the 60* tip has a .002 flat spoton the point. Therewould be that much error on a flat surface andalong the whole 60* angle.The only time you will get a true measurement isif the point isabsolutely perfect. Doing the .1155 assures thatyou will get a truesetting on your forms.Hope this helps you understand what is being done. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 10 13:29:44 2001 f3AIThS06308 Subject: Review of Don Phillips book Friends,A few days ago I mentioned a review of Don Phillips bookon the technology of fly rods. Finally found the url:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reviews/books/phillips/index.php3m Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Apr 10 13:37:15 2001 f3AIbES06861 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Review of Don Phillips book I bought this book about a week ago, and have not been able to put it down.It is very interesting, concerning the development of fly rods from Genesisforward. It is not particularly heavy into cane rod techniques, but giventhe author's background, it's easy to make the connection to tubularcomposite rod design. Don Phillips has done a great job of bringingtogether a broad history of fly rod development over hundreds of years, andI believe it's worth the 20 bucks and 20 hours. Then again, I'm anengineer. Everybody else might be bored as heck with it.... TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Review of Don Phillips book Friends,A few days ago I mentioned a review of Don Phillips bookon the technology of fly rods. Finally found the url:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reviews/books/phillips/index.php3m Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Apr 10 13:42:57 2001 f3AIgtS07368 Subject: Re: Review of Don Phillips book I was in Chicago late last week and saw that the Orvis shop just offMichigan Avenue had a bunch of copies of the book. I also check for"The" book, but couldn't even dig up a copy. Just thought someone would like to know. Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,A few days ago I mentioned a review of Don Phillips bookon the technology of fly rods. Finally found the url:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reviews/books/phillips/index.php3m Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from partrick@intrex.net Tue Apr 10 13:47:50 2001 f3AIlmS07877 Subject: Books Folks... You probably have all read this book but it is a great read by afine fisherman and storyteller: Full Creel by Nick Lyons. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 16:47:54 2001 f3ALlqS18399 OAA24259 Subject: Re: George Gehrke $250, man what a rip off. I bet you can do it for $125. Are you sure you =are not taking advantage and charging to much? I wonder if anyone in =this entire world has ever stated that they can make a rod as good as a =Gerhke? Hmmm..... I think that statement is an OXYMORON in more than one=way. George, wrong audience I think the Penny Saver (a throw away paper) =is more your audience. Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 11:00 AMSubject: Re: George Gehrke Hey George what's chrappenen?$250 for a rod that's a good as a $2000 T&T. could you extend me a loan? LOLWhen I first open your email I thought it was one of those spam =email's from those pesky bill collectors.Do you guarantee mine will come out as good as a T&T?Please email me off list to discuss your return policy.Can't wait to get started on it, does it come with a aluminumreel seat? With one of those fancy foam grips?One can only hope.Tony Miller $250, man what a rip off. I bet you can= $125. Are you sure you are not taking advantage and charging to much? I = if anyone in this entire world has ever stated that they can make a rod = as a Gerhke? Hmmm..... I think that statement is an OXYMORON in more = way. George, wrong audience I think the Penny Saver (a throw away paper) = your audience. ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: George =Gehrke Hey George what's =chrappenen?$250 for a rod that's a good as a = T&T.Sounds good ,but I'm a little short = now could you extend me a loan? =LOLWhen I first open your email I = of those spam email's from those pesky bill collectors.Do you guarantee mine will come out = T&T?Please email me off list to discuss = policy.Can't wait to get started on it, does = with a aluminumreel seat? With one of those fancy = can only hope.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from dutcher@email.msn.com Tue Apr 10 17:43:26 2001 f3AMhQS20485 Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:43:23 -0700 Subject: Re: George Gehrke FILETIME=[A6C748B0:01C0C20F] Hey Guys, Let's not do this, again and again and again. It is not worth thebandwidth. Thank you,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 10 17:57:25 2001 f3AMvOS21201 Subject: Re: Helmsman Spray Yep, which is why they must be stirred in order to thoroughly mix thesilica. If one were to take a small amount of stirred satin varnish andplace same into a glass somethingoranother, check it the next day and thesilica will have settled out of solution, to the bottom. M-D Brian,Satin varnishes have silica (sp?) in them to give the semi- glossappearance. Best way is to sand them down, and polish back up to thedegreeof gloss you want. Later,Bob From: Brian Justiss I remember someone once recommending against a satin or semi-glossfinish as a way to get a low gloss finish. Why should I not use satin? Brian from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 10 17:57:33 2001 f3AMvWS21214 Subject: Re: Review of Don Phillips book To anyone who is a student of bamboo fly rods and their mechanics, I highlyrecommend this book. Much of the material contained therein directly relatesto bamboo fly rods, if not specifically. I bought this book about a week ago, and have not been able to put itdown.It is very interesting, concerning the development of fly rods fromGenesisforward. It is not particularly heavy into cane rod techniques, but giventhe author's background, it's easy to make the connection to tubularcomposite rod design. Don Phillips has done a great job of bringingtogether a broad history of fly rod development over hundreds of years,andI believe it's worth the 20 bucks and 20 hours. Then again, I'm anengineer. Everybody else might be bored as heck with it.... TAM Friends,A few days ago I mentioned a review of Don Phillips bookon the technology of fly rods. Finally found the url:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reviews/books/phillips/index.php3m Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boyd from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Apr 10 18:18:54 2001 f3ANIkS22056 Subject: Re: George Gehrke Lighten up Richard it was just a joke. off list as not to waste band width. LOLTony Miller Lighten up Richard it was just a =joke.But maybe you should have reprimanded= LOLTony Miller from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 10 19:03:02 2001 f3B032S23310 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: George Gehrke Dick,Agreed... Let George do his own thing, and we'll do ours... apples andoranges anyways... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: George Gehrke Hey Guys, Let's not do this, again and again and again. It is not worth thebandwidth. Thank you,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 10 20:27:31 2001 f3B1RUS25212 Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:26:47 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Review of Don Phillips book I believe Darrell Lee has some copies of it?? Just make sure you leave himwith acopy for me so when (if??) I ever get my latest purchases paid off I can buya copy!Sounds like a "must have" book.;^)Shawn Todd Talsma wrote: I was in Chicago late last week and saw that the Orvis shop just offMichigan Avenue had a bunch of copies of the book. I also check for"The" book, but couldn't even dig up a copy. Just thought someone would like to know. Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,A few days ago I mentioned a review of Don Phillips bookon the technology of fly rods. Finally found the url:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reviews/books/phillips/index.php3m Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from cdn@ticon.net Tue Apr 10 20:34:43 2001 f3B1YgS25583 0000 (216.145.217.249) Subject: dip tubes List members,I am getting ready to make mydip tube and am wondering if thereis any reason I shouldn't use schedule-40pvc that has been cleaned out with acetoneto remove any manufacturing lubricants/contaminants?Was wondering also if copper dip tube can oxidizeand contaminate varnish? Ideas and opinionswelcomed.ThanksNed from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 10 20:40:14 2001 f3B1eES25924 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: dip tubes Ned,I used Sch. 40 PVC... only thing I would warn is to clean it out withANYTHING but Acetone... Acetone will disolve PVC! I know this for a FACT!!!I guess you can figure out why I know... :^) You can clean it out withmineral spirits, denatured alcohol or something else, but don't use acetone. Later,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: dip tubes List members,I am getting ready to make mydip tube and am wondering if thereis any reason I shouldn't use schedule-40pvc that has been cleaned out with acetoneto remove any manufacturing lubricants/contaminants?Was wondering also if copper dip tube can oxidizeand contaminate varnish? Ideas and opinionswelcomed.ThanksNed from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Apr 10 20:51:18 2001 f3B1pHS26351 Subject: was George Gehrke ,Now Fun Common guysLets encourage discussion on the list.True my comments, as well as others,may have been a little sarcastic.However, Isn't that what were here for?Discussion.So A guy solicits on the list and were OK with that?Please do not police my thoughts and contributions to the list. I have =contributed allot of useful information as well as When you tell others to hold, you might scare them from making any = I have deleted allot of useless emails, but never told anyone on the =list to refrain. I'm sure there are cases for being told to refrain, =like spaming.So lets let everyone in on the fun.Tony Miller Common guysLets encourage discussion on the = list.True my comments, as well as = others,may have been a little = sarcastic. contributed allot of useful information as well = as comments, useful or not. spaming.So lets let everyone in on the = fun.Tony Miller flyfish@defnet.com Tue Apr 10 21:08:35 2001 Received: fromwam.defnet.com Apr 2001 (8.9.3/8.9.3) with From: "Tony owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part messagein quoted-printable Ned I think I heard of someone using copper and it turned quoted-printable Ned I wouldn't use copper. I use schedule = 40 PVC.Best regards Tony Miller channer@frontier.net Tue Apr 10 21:48:49 2001 Received: frommail.frontier.net Apr 2001 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 200120:48:05 -0600 From: channer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCDNS4xx/Winxx/EZN (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: dip tubes References: channer@frontier.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENNed; The first tube I made was copper, the varnish turned green in about ayear or so. The second one was pvc, about 3 yrs old and still just fine.John Ned Guyette wrote: > > List members, > I am getting ready to make mydip tube and am wondering if there > is any reason I shouldn't useschedule-40 > pvc that has been cleaned out with acetone > to remove anymanufacturing lubricants/contaminants? > Was wondering also ifcopper dip tube can oxidize > and contaminate varnish? Ideas and opinions >welcomed. > Thanks > Ned > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 2001 20:23:26 -0700 Message-ID:Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:18:39 -0500 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: dip tubes References: fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENNed, For the last couple of years I've been using the clear plastic tubes usedto protect flourescent bulbs. I get them at Home Depot, in supposed8' lengths (really about 7'9"). I cap one end with a 1 5/8" pvc fitting glued on really makes seeing things simple. No more standing on my head trying todetermine when a guide clears the varnish. They don't last forever, butat only a few bucks each, I can afford to replace them once or twice a year.One tip though, don't try to wash them out and re-use them. Everysolvent I've tried turns them brittle. And brittle tubes holding varnish makes Rick Crenshaw, and Ron Huff for starting me using these tubes. Harry NedGuyette wrote: > am wondering if there > is any reason I shouldn'tuse schedule-40 -- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- HarryBoyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- > from rmoon@ida.net Tue Apr 1022:33:10 2001 Received: from ida.net (mail.ida.net -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ida.net) (208.141.176.34) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:25:43-0600 From: Ralph W Moon X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; U) flyfish@defnet.com CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: wasGeorge Gehrke ,Now Fun References:Content-Type: Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) byCREN ------- -------F5DADADF3862B11AB5294AF4 Content-Type: text/plain; to fan this some more. Tony, George was wrong to use the rodlist to solicitsales. However your rude and demeaning remarks are far moreoffensive to me than George's indiscretion. If you know the man and if youknow his product, then you might comment, but otherwise to badmouth someone just because it is fashionable to do so seems to me toindicate a remarkable lock of decency. To the other members of the list myapologies. Ralph > Common guysLets encourage discussion on the list.Truemy > comments, as well as others,may have been a little >sarcastic.However, Isn't that what were here > for?Discussion.So A guysolicits on the list and were OK > with that?Please do not police mythoughts and > contributions to the list. I have contributed allot of > usefulinformation as well asreceived useful > information.When you tellothers to hold, you might scare > them from making any comments, usefulor not.I have > deleted allot of useless emails, but never told anyone onthe list to refrain. I'm sure there are cases for being > told to refrain, likespaming.So lets let everyone in on > the fun.TonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html -------------- George was wrong to use the rodlist to solicit sales. However your rude and demeaning remarks are far more offensive to methan George's indiscretion. If you know the man and if you know hisproduct, then you might comment, but otherwise to bad mouth someone justbecause it is fashionable to do so seems to me to indicate aremarkable lock of decency. To the other members of the list my apologies. Ralph Common guysLets encourage discussion on the list.True my comments, aswell as others,may have been a little sarcastic.However, Isn't thatwhat were here for?Discussion.So A guy solicits on the list and were OKwith that?Please do not police my thoughts and contributions to thelist. I have contributed allot of useful information as well asreceived usefulinformation.When you tell others to hold, you might scare them from making any comments, useful or not.I have deleted allot of uselessemails, but never told anyone on the list to refrain. I'm sure there arecases for being told to refrain, like spaming.So lets let everyone in on thefun.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --------------F5DADADF3862B11AB5294AF4-- > from dutcher@email.msn.comTue Apr 10 23:11:41 2001 Received: from Apr 2001 21:11:39 -0700 Received: from richardd "Rodmakers" References: Subject: Re: George 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft 04:11:36.0796 (UTC) FILETIME=[805101C0:01C0C23D] Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hello All, I feel there is aneed for an apology for my last posting to this list. A copy is at thebottom of this posting for your reference. I did give the wording of theoriginal posting careful consideration. I chose not to be offensive orrestrictive in my request and certainly not personal. However, what reallycounts is whether or not anyone took offense. That being the case, I amtruly sorry for any uncomfortable feelings I may have caused to any personor persons, known or unknown to me. Sincerely, Dick Richard R.Dutcher dutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard R. Subject: Re: George Gehrke Hey Guys, Let's not do this, again and again andagain. It is not worth the bandwidth. Thank you, Dick Richard R.Dutcher dutcher@msn.com > from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Apr 1100:17:03 2001 Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net Subject: Re: was GeorgeGehrke ,Now Fun Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:17:18 - 0700 V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thisis silent is paramount to agreeing. I think = if we can laugh alittle it willkeep us from crying a little. So a guy = uses the list to advertise and doesnot get any negative feedback, arent = we the ones responsible if itcontinues to happen? It reminds me of = parents who have unruly childrenand become upset when another tells the = kid to straighten up. Mostof use obey the rules of this list and we = should be the ones to expresscomments about those who do not. Adam ----- Original Message Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: was George Gehrke,Now Fun Common guys Lets encourage discussion on the list. True mycomments, as well as others, may have been a little sarcastic. However,Isn't that what were here for?Discussion. So A guy solicits on the list andwere OK with that? Please do not police my thoughts and contributionsto the list. I have = contributed allot of useful information as well as received allot of useless emails, but never told anyone on the = list to refrain.I'm sure there are cases for being told to refrain, = like spaming. So lets leteveryone in on the fun. Tony Miller arent we the ones responsible if it continues to happen? It = reminds do not. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: was George Gehrke ,Now = Fun Common guys True my comments, as well as = others,may have been a little = sarcastic. comments, useful or not. spaming.So lets let everyone in on the = fun.Tony Miller rsgould@cmc.net Wed Apr 11 00:25:42 2001 Received: frommailhost.cmc.net Apr 2001 Subject: Re: dip tubes Date: Tue, 10 Apr2001 22:25:24 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Ned, I have used both PVCpipe and ABS pipe for the dip tube with no problems whatsoever. I alwayswipe out the interior of the pipe with a clean rag after cutting it tolength and then rinse it out with paint thinner after the end fittings are I am getting ready to make my > dip tube and am wondering if thereis any reason I shouldn't use schedule-40 > pvc that has been cleaned outwith acetone > to remove any manufacturing lubricants/contaminants?Was wondering also if copper dip tube can oxidize > and contaminatevarnish? Ideas and opinions > welcomed. > Thanks > Ned > >Fromthogan@rochester.rr.com Wed Apr 11 05:38:34 2001 Received: from from From: Re: dip tubes Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 06:37:07 -0400 Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal thogan@rochester.rr.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) byCREN I am happy with my PVC tube. The only problem I noticed, which isindependent of tube material I think, is that I had bubbles in the poly lots of small bubles on my first dip. I cleaned mine with a bit of mineralspirits. I don't seem to have any problems with dirt, only the original problemwith bubbles. I should have waited a day or two before dipping. ----- 8:36 PM Subject: dip tubes > List members, > I am getting readyto make my > dip tube and am wondering if there > is any reason I shouldn'tuse schedule- 40 > pvc that has been cleaned out with acetone > toremove any manufacturing lubricants/contaminants? > Was wondering also ifcopper dip tube can oxidize > and contaminate varnish? Ideas andopinions > welcomed. > Thanks > Ned > > > from parataper@hotmail.com WedApr 11 07:05:30 2001 Received: from hotmail.com Apr HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:05:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: flyfish@defnet.com Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: wasGeorge owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Ralph, I agree >From: RalphW rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu >Subject: Re: was George Gehrke ,Now FunDate: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:25:43 -0600 > >Sorry I have to fan this somemore. Tony, >George was wrong to use the rodlist to solicit sales.However your rude and demeaning remarks are far more >offensive to methan George's indiscretion. If you know the >man and if you knowhis product, then you might comment, but >otherwise to bad mouth someonejust because it is >fashionable to do so seems to me to indicate aremarkable >lock of decency. To the other members of the list myapologies. >Ralph > > > Common guysLets encourage discussion on thelist.True my > > comments, as well as others,may have been a little > >sarcastic.However, Isn't that what were here > > for?Discussion.So A guysolicits on the list and were OK > > with that?Please do not police mythoughts and > > contributions to the list. I have contributed allot of > >useful information as well asreceived useful > > information.When you tellothers to hold, you might scare > > them from making any comments,useful or not.I have > > deleted allot of useless emails, but never told anyoneon > > the list to refrain. I'm sure there are cases for being > > told torefrain, like spaming.So lets let everyone in on > > the fun.TonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com > from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Apr 1107:41:18 2001 Received: from umhs-mail01.missouri.edu(umhs-mail01.health.missouri.edu [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) by umhs-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Was George Gehrke ,Then Was Fun,Now is Not Fun Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:41:20 -0500 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN So let me get this straight.Tonysaid bad things about George, which was wrong because he doesn't knowGeorge or his products personally, but Ralph accused Tony of a"remarkable lack of decency," which is a pretty nasty thing to say aboutsomeone but was OK for reasons not specified. Seems to me this is justthe kind of thing Public Fools like George love to see. Here's anotherapproach. If you can't stand George, it's fine with me for you to flame himnow and then but recall that this is just what he loves. If you're a defender ofGeorge, convincing us not to insult him just ruins his fun. And ifGeorge is sensitive it is within his power to avoid attracting attention tohimself. I think the recent suggestion that we lighten up about the wholething is great advice. -----Original Message----- From: mark petrie Subject: Re: was George Gehrke ,Now Fun Ralph, I agree >From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu >Subject: Re: was George Gehrke,Now Fun >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:25:43 -0600 > >Sorry I have to fanthis some more. Tony, >George was wrong to use the rodlist to solicitsales. >However your rude and demeaning remarks are far more >offensiveto me than George's indiscretion. If you know the >man and if youknow his product, then you might comment, but >otherwise to bad mouthsomeone just because it is >fashionable to do so seems to me to indicatea remarkable >lock of decency. To the other members of the list myapologies. >Ralph > > > Common guysLets encourage discussion on thelist.True my > > comments, as well as others,may have been a little > >sarcastic.However, Isn't that what were here > > for?Discussion.So A guysolicits on the list and were OK > > with that?Please do not police mythoughts and > > contributions to the list. I have contributed allot of > >useful information as well asreceived useful > > information.When you tellothers to hold, you might scare > > them from making any comments,useful or not.I have > > deleted allot of useless emails, but never told anyoneon > > the list to refrain. I'm sure there are cases for being > > told torefrain, like spaming.So lets let everyone in on > > the fun.TonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com > from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Apr 11 Apr X-Sender:bmaulucci@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28-- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thinking about buying a small mill to supplement mylathe in making my own parts (reel seats, winding checks. etc...).However, I am not sure as to what a mill will let me do that the lathe cannot.The only time I have ever seen one in use was in Gary Dabrowski'sarticle on fillers. Looked pretty neat as opposed to using a router. Anythoughts would be appreciated. Best regards, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com http://www.downandacross.com 218Wallace Avenue Buffalo, NY 14216 716-836-8297 home 716-867-0523cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.net bob@downandacross.com >Fromnobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 11 10:06:04 2001 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu 200110:03:49 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: dip tubes 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN MEK will also dissolve Sch. 40!GMA > from earsdws@duke.edu Wed Apr 11 10:10:26 2001 Received: from from Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:11:01 -0400 Smith, Ph.D." Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. ofOtolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] Subject: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Gang, I am looking for a used(read affordable) set of quad and/or swelled-butt forms. (Perhaps thereasonable thing to do is to buy a Morgan mill, does it dow swelled butts?)Anyone having any used forms/mills looking to sell, please contact me offline. Thanks in advance, dws. > from nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 11 Subject: Re: dip tubes Date: Wed, 11 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Yes, copper, brass, etc. isallergicto alcohols, and methanes in particular. When they come in contact acidicacid is formed, and this is what causes the metals to turn the liquidsgreenish. For tubes, polypropylene is the best, as it has no thinner that willcut it. GMA > from cathcreek@hotmail.com Wed Apr 11 10:19:12 Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:19:10 -0700 Received: from 140.211.60.166 bylw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:19:10 Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime:11 Apr 2001 15:19:10.0508 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2306EC0:01C0C29A] Sender:owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Folks, hope this is ok. A fellow emailed me about a Hardy perfect thathe wants to sell. I am not in a position to buy one at this time (still need topay off the metal lathe). Anyway, if anyone is interested, email me offlist and I will forward you his information. No financial interest, etc....justthought it would be nice for this reel to end up on a bamboo rod. RobClarke cathcreek@hotmail.com_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download ofMSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Apr X-Sender:bmaulucci@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 earsdws@duke.edu From: Bob Maulucci Subject: Re: looking for used set ofquad or swelled forms Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENHi David: The Handmill does a great job with swelled butts and quads. It is alsogoing to have a fluting attachment soon from what I hear.Inexpensive, quality quad forms can be purchased from Grindstone Anglers inCanada. How you set these for quads I do not know, but I knowyou need to do both sides separately. If you can sell your hex formsreasonably, I would go for the Handmill. It is really a fantastic tool, and Tomis really working on new ideas all the time. He is constantly looking out fornew attachments and cutters, etc...Because of this, I doubt you wouldfind a used one. Think about it: * Hex, quad, penta, and even 8 siders with asimple cutter change. * Perfect angles with no need for a roughingform (Although I use a mill to save time) * NO sharpening planes * Flutingattachment (forthcoming) and a flat cutter to do Powell type inserts Tom and his staff. * You could never buy all the forms for the priceof the Handmill. No, I don't get a stipend from Tom for this, but I believe thathis mill is fantastic. Best regards, Bob At 11:11 AM 4/11/2001-0400, you wrote: >Gang, > I am looking for a used (read affordable) set ofquad and/or >swelled-butt forms. (Perhaps the reasonable thing to dois to buy a >Morgan mill, does it dow swelled butts?) Anyone having any usedforms/mills looking to sell, please contact me off line. > Thanksin advance, dws. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com 218 Wallace Avenue Buffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home 716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com > from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Wed Apr11 10:53:00 2001 Received: from imx0.midmaine.com Apr MSMail-Priority:Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thisis post; first let me say the list rule clearly states that this is not amarketing forum. Having said this the topic seems to be cost versusprofitability. Many years ago I too tried to compete with production rods andafter a number of years found myself working for third world wages, myconclusion was that the small average rod maker could not complete inthis environment. I than looked at the workflow to determine what actuallyproduced the most cash flow; it was repair, restoration, and high-endcustom rods but this would not produce enough return to support expense.We all have operating, capital, and labor costs and these things mustbe factored in if you are to make a living at this craft. Your most expensivecost is labor and this is what makes or breaks a business. Say that ittakes 60 hours to produce a rod from start to finish and you chargeminimum wage $5.40 per hour, than your labor cost alone would be $324 andwhen you factor in all the other added cost for production it becomes clearthat you are working for the love of the craft and not for the money. Sohow does one make a buck! By valuing one's craft and charging a fair rateand conveying that to the customer, by doing niche marketing,producing items that can only be had at your place, and finally being a fullservice shop. I.e. tackle, referring service, booking, and customerservice. Last but not least is marketing and public exposure. People mustknow who, what, and where you are. Can you make a dollar, sure youcan, will you die a rich man, depends how you define rich. If rich is makingenough money to earn a living and love what you are doing than youwill be a very rich man. This craft has allowed me to meet people, go places,and do things that I would never have thought was possible. I say tothe people who look to making this a production and not a craft, go see theventure capital boys and work for them. Just one man 's thoughts.Upstream Always Tim Doughty Rod Maker ------ I have been following the thread on George's post; first = let me say the listrule clearly states that this is not a marketing forum. Having said =this the topic seems to be cost versus = profitability. Many years ago I too tried to compete with production rods and = after anumber of years found myself working for third world wages, my =conclusion was that the small average rod maker could not complete in thisenvironment. = I than looked at the workflow to determine whatactually produced the most cash = flow; it was repair, restoration, and high-end custom rods but this would not = produce enough return tosupport expense. We all have operating, capital, and = labor costs and thesethings must be factored in if you are to make a living = at this craft.Your most expensive cost is labor and this is what makes or = breaks abusiness. Say that it takes 60 hours to produce a rod from start to = finishand you charge minimum wage $5.40 per hour, than your labor cost alonewould = be $324 and when you factor in all the other added cost forproduction it = becomes clear that you are working for the love of the craftand not for the = money. So how does one make a buck! By valuing one's craft and = charging a fairrate and conveying that to the customer, by doing niche marketing, =producing items that can only be had at your place, and finally being a full =service shop. I.e. tackle, referring service, booking, and customerservice. = Last but not least is marketing and public exposure. People mustknow who, what, = and where you are. Can you make a dollar, sure you can, will you die a rich man, = depends howyou define rich. If rich is making enough money to earn a living and= love what you are doing than you will be a very rich man. This craft has =allowed me to meet people, go places, and do things that I wouldnever have thought = was possible. I say to the people who look to makingthis a production and = not a craft, go see the venture capital boys andwork for them. Just one = man's thoughts. Upstream = Always Tim Doughty Rod Maker bhoy551@earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 11:37:25 2001 Received: from 0400 Message-Id:X-Sender:bhoy551@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu From: Bill Hoy Subject: dessicant source format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2001 16:37:20.0763 (UTC) owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu American Science and Surplus has a supply of reuseable dessicant ifanybody has been looking for this like I have. It's about $3 for a pound, so youhave to order four to meet their $10 minimum order. Comes incloth bags. It might not be in the current catalog, but you can search foritem#10078. www.sciplus.com. I've tried the stuff sold in craft stores fordrying flowers, but it's so powdery it leaks out of any porous bag so I don'tfind it very useful. Bill > from DragonflyMAE@aol.com Wed Apr 1111:38:33 2001 Received: from imo-r20.mx.aol.com (imo-r20.mx.aol.com DragonflyMAE@aol.com by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id DragonflyMAE@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:38:24 EDT DragonflyMAE@aol.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by understand how soliciting on the list can be annoying and it doesn't seemright to do it. Couldn't we just ask George to refrain from soliciting inthe future? My guess is that he won't, and in that case it is up to those whoare offended to delete his name when it comes up. It bothers me to seethe meanness displayed by some on the list, there's no call for being mean. -- soliciting on the list can be annoying and it doesn't seem right to do it. Couldn't we just ask George to refrain from soliciting in the future? My guess is that he won't, and in that case it is up to those who are offended to delete his name when it comes up. It bothers me to see the meanness displayed by some on the list, there's no call for being mean. -- nobler@satx.rr.com Wed Apr 11 11:44:17 2001 Received: from From: "nobler" Subject: Re: finishing Date: Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal nobler@satx.rr.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 --ListProc(tm) by CREN While I had many letters from PHY, I never asked howhe applied the varnish to his production rods. Isaw quite a few for sale in a local tackle store, and they certainly lookedgreat ! I can't say if they were dipped or sprayedhowever. GMA > from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 13:00:36 2001 Received: from [192.251.173.34] byweb11406.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:00:38 PDT Date: Wed, 11 wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tim, That had to be one of the best writtenperspectives on running a small business that I've ever read. Bill Walters ---Tim Doughty wrote: > I have been following thethread on George's post; > first let me say the list > rule clearly states thatthis is not a marketing > forum. Having said this thetopic seems to be cost versus profitability. > > Many years ago I too triedto compete with > production rods and after a >number of years found myself working for third world > wages, myconclusion > was that the small average rod maker couldnot > complete in this environment. > I than looked at the workflow todetermine what > actually produced the most > cashflow; it was repair, restoration, and high-end > custom rods but this > wouldnot produce enough return to support expense. >We all have operating, > capital, and labor costs and these things must be >factored in if you are to > make a living at thiscraft. Your most expensive > cost is labor and this is > what makes orbreaks a business. Say that it takes > 60 hours toproduce a rod > from start to finish and you charge minimum wage > $5.40per hour, than your > labor cost alone would be$324 and when you factor > in all the other added > cost for production itbecomes clear that you are > working for the love of >the craft and not for the money. > > So how does one make a buck! Byvaluing one's craft > and charging a fair rate > andconveying that to the customer, by doing niche > marketing, producing >items that can only be had at your place, and > finallybeing a full service > shop. I.e. tackle, referring service, booking, and >customer service. Last > but not least is marketing andpublic exposure. > People must know who, what, > and where you are. > >Can you make a dollar, sure you can, will you die arich man, depends how > you define rich. If rich is making enough money toearn a living and love > what you are doingthan you will be a very rich man. > This craft has allowed > me to meetpeople, go places, and do things that I > would neverhave thought > was possible. I say to the people who look to making > this aproduction and > not a craft, go see the venturecapital boys and > work for them. Just one man > 's thoughts. > > UpstreamAlways > > Tim Doughty > Rod Maker > > > > >__________________________________________________ Do YouYahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo!Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Apr 1113:08:32 2001 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) Apr 2001 18:08:34 -0000 Received: frommplsdslgw11poolb24.mpls.uswest.net (HELO computer) (63.228.45.24) by Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:59:14 -0500 Message-ID: earsdws@duke.edu, " Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 dnorl@qwest.net Sender:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Listen to BobMalucci he is right on about the hand mill. It is wonderful Dave Norling - ----Original Message----- From: David W. Smith, Ph.D. am looking for a used (read affordable) set of quad and/or >swelled- buttforms. (Perhaps the reasonable thing to do is to buya >Morgan mill, does it dow swelled butts?) Anyone having any usedforms/mills looking to sell, please contact me off line. >Thanks in advance, dws. > > > from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Apr 11 13:09:252001 Received: from mail.ttlc.net (mail.ttlc.net Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:07:06 -0400 Message-ID:Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:12:15 -0400 Reed Curry User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18)Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu haven't tried this yet, but I will. The accordian styleglue injectors with stainless needle sold by Woodcraft (2 x $3.95) should beperfect for putting drops of varnish on wraps andsmoothing it. It should be better and easier than a toothpick (no dipping) butcould cause a mess if one sneezed whilesqueezing. -- Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >Frompartrick@intrex.net Wed Apr 11 13:46:10 2001 my-computer [209.42.199.87] by intrex.net From: "Jerry Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 partrick@intrex.net Sender:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENPerhaps someone will tell mewhat a handmill is... any website???Thanks, Jerry from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 13:57:25 2001 f3BIvOS28322 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022Subject: Re: Handmill? Take a look at http://www.troutrods.com/handmill.html. I have been dreaming of one since the bamboo rod symposium at the 1999Federation of Fly Fishers International Conclave at Idaho Falls, ID. Theyplaned a two piece, six sided rod in something like six hours. It was thefirst time the demonstrator had even used the thing! I talked a lot withTom and the lady who was there with him and learned a lot about it. Greatpiece of equipment. Now, if I can just get my wife to look the other way for the next couple ofyears... Jason From: "Jerry Partrick" Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:44:54 -0400 Subject: Handmill? Perhaps someone will tell me what a handmill is... any website???Thanks, Jerry from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 14:22:31 2001 f3BJMTS29930 2001 12:22:33 PDT Subject: reels from www.dorber.com I just recieved my reel from these guys...GREAT!!!!people, service and quality for the money. No commercial interests blah-blah-blah __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Apr 11 14:34:55 2001 f3BJYtS00562 f3BJYqT01474;Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:34:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnishing wraps Reed,I have been using the small plastic flytying head cement squeeze gluebottles for some time now. They work great. Easy to get the varnish inaround the foot of the guides. I still use a fine brush for leveling it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Reed Curry wrote: I haven't tried this yet, but I will. The accordian style glue injectorswith stainless needle sold by Woodcraft (2 x $3.95) should be perfect better and easier than a toothpick (no dipping) but could cause a messif one sneezed while squeezing.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Apr 11 14:49:12 2001 f3BJnBS01625 Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:48:30 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms David,it is possible to make swelled butts on your standard forms. Let meknow ifyou want me to tell you the way I do mine.Shawn "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Gang,I am looking for a used (read affordable) set of quad and/orswelled- butt forms. (Perhaps the reasonable thing to do is to buy aMorgan mill, does it dow swelled butts?) Anyone having any usedforms/mills looking to sell, please contact me off line.Thanks in advance, dws. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 11 15:04:47 2001 f3BK4kS02736 Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:04:32 -0700 Subject: Re: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms C'mon Shawn -- You can't throw out a big juicy glob of worms like that andnot expectsomeone to rise to the bait. Spill the beans, man! Give us ALL a littleinsight.:-)Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: David,it is possible to make swelled butts on your standard forms. Let meknow ifyou want me to tell you the way I do mine. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Apr 11 15:50:03 2001 f3BKo1S05591 f3BKo0T16997 0500 Subject: Re: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms Shawn,Tell us all.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote: David,it is possible to make swelled butts on your standard forms. Let meknow ifyou want me to tell you the way I do mine.Shawn "David W. Smith, Ph.D." wrote: Gang,I am looking for a used (read affordable) set of quad and/orswelled- butt forms. (Perhaps the reasonable thing to do is to buy aMorgan mill, does it dow swelled butts?) Anyone having any usedforms/mills looking to sell, please contact me off line.Thanks in advance, dws. from dutcher@email.msn.com Wed Apr 11 16:08:27 2001 f3BL8QS06563 Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:08:25 -0700 Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:08:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Varnishing wraps FILETIME=[8C330F40:01C0C2CB] Hi Reed and All, I have also been using the head cement bottle to apply my varnish. Ilike the method best of all the different ways I have tried. Like Tony, I was having a difficult time getting the varnish spreadevenly. I found that if I hold the needle as close to parallel with therod,as possible I can smooth the varnish with the needle shank as I applyit. Holding the bottle in my right hand, I am pointing the needle to theleft, and applying the varnish right to left. I work from the outside of thewrap to the guide. I switch hands and reverse the process for the other sideof the guide. I hope this helps you with your idea, it's a good one. Good luck. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Reed Curry Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:12 AMSubject: Varnishing wraps I haven't tried this yet, but I will. The accordian style glue injectorswith stainless needle sold by Woodcraft (2 x $3.95) should be perfect better and easier than a toothpick (no dipping) but could cause a messif one sneezed while squeezing.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 11 16:11:10 2001 f3BLB9S06843 Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:11:02 -0700 Subject: Re: New taper design program needs your input! Taylor,I just snuck an hour and read through some of the references you postedafew weeks ago. Got to say a big thank you! The one site I left quoted belowwas particulary enjoyable for me. Though I have a minor in math, I'm noengineer. Yet the ideas presented make good sense to me. So once again, thanks! Harry Boyd taylor hogan wrote: I have dug up what I referenced in an earlier email regarding available workon various aspects of the physics of fly fishing. I hope this helps anyoneinterested. A very good site, regarding the mathematics of fly fishinghttp://users.cybercity.dk/~bcc25154/home.html --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from darrell@rockclimbing.org Wed Apr 11 16:25:46 2001 f3BLPjS07806 Wed, Subject: RE: Review of Don Phillips book I ran out, but I have 8 more copies on the way... www.vfish.net/store1.htm It really is a good book... especially for the Garrison devotees that loveall that engineer talk... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Review of Don Phillips book I believe Darrell Lee has some copies of it?? Just make sure you leavehim with acopy for me so when (if??) I ever get my latest purchases paid off I canbuy a copy!Sounds like a "must have" book.;^)Shawn Todd Talsma wrote: I was in Chicago late last week and saw that the Orvis shop just offMichigan Avenue had a bunch of copies of the book. I also check for"The" book, but couldn't even dig up a copy. Just thought someone would like to know. Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,A few days ago I mentioned a review of Don Phillips bookon the technology of fly rods. Finally found the url:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reviews/books/phillips/index.php3m Hope this helps,Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Apr 11 16:41:44 2001 f3BLfhS08649 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms Yes, it is possible to force the forms apart with a C-clamp and a spacer ,to achive swelled butts. But it will not be like the ones T&T makes, with adramatical swell no more than 1". I have however seen a pic og Morten L's modified planning form which willmake a verrrrry nice swell..........I beleive it will be featured in "Planning Form" some time in the feature. regardsdanny Don't ask me how it looks like, try Morten From: Harry Boyd Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:03:21 -0500 Cc: earsdws@duke.edu, Rodmakers Subject: Re: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms C'mon Shawn -- You can't throw out a big juicy glob of worms like that andnotexpectsomeone to rise to the bait. Spill the beans, man! Give us ALL a littleinsight.:-)Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: David,it is possible to make swelled butts on your standard forms. Let me knowifyou want me to tell you the way I do mine. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from johanyga@online.no Wed Apr 11 19:03:25 2001 f3C03OS12994 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 02:03:18 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: SV: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms To Danny and the List, I think Morten's version was featured in the latest issue of The PlaningForm. regardsJohan -----Opprinnelig melding-----Fra: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sendt: 12. april 2001 06:41Til: RodmakersEmne: Re: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms Yes, it is possible to force the forms apart with a C-clamp and a spacer ,to achive swelled butts. But it will not be like the ones T&T makes, with adramatical swell no more than 1". I have however seen a pic og Morten L's modified planning form which willmake a verrrrry nice swell..........I beleive it will be featured in "Planning Form" some time in the feature. regardsdanny Don't ask me how it looks like, try Morten From: Harry Boyd Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:03:21 -0500 Cc: earsdws@duke.edu, Rodmakers Subject: Re: looking for used set of quad or swelled forms C'mon Shawn -- You can't throw out a big juicy glob of worms like that andnotexpectsomeone to rise to the bait. Spill the beans, man! Give us ALL a littleinsight.:-)Harry Shawn Pineo wrote: David,it is possible to make swelled butts on your standard forms. Let me knowifyou want me to tell you the way I do mine. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Apr 11 19:26:02 2001 f3C0Q1S13542 Subject: Re: Mills In a message dated 04/11/2001 10:41:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bmaulucci@adelphia.net writes: Bob,Stick with your lathe. I have two lathes anda Bridgeport Milling machine here in my shop. I do use themilling machine quite often, but not for anything to do withrod components. All of my components are made in the lathe.The setup that I made for mortising the reel seat fillers, isused with a router and having a milling machine at my disposal,I would still do them with the router setup.I use the milling machine mostly for making parts will find that you really don't need it. If you ever do find you need to mill something, youcan get a milling attachment for your lathe and do the millingwith your lathe. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 11 19:54:58 2001 f3C0swS14481 Subject: Re: Was George Gehrke ,Forget about it Guys, Did we or did we not drag George thru the list some time ago. Let us not disparage him but let us not also keep putting things about him on the list. I think we have all at one time or another maybe put some inappropriate things on here, I know I have. I for one am not worried about what he does or is trying to do. Let us all just leave him totally off any posts to the list. Hey if I offended anyone with this post the only thing I can say is....Bret from bconner@mediaone.net Wed Apr 11 20:29:28 2001 f3C1TRS15348 f3C1TUx20467 Subject: So long Well, the fun has gone out of the list again and I don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad that a few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Apr 11 21:21:09 2001 f3C2L8S16770 Subject: Lathes and stuff Hi again, I was wandering about today while waiting for my car to get fixed and went into a store called "Re-Tool" a sort of recycling shop for used tools. (If you dont have one, find a partner and start one!!) Kind of like a Thrift shop for tool heads.WELL!!! In there on the floor was a variety of lathes. Small, medium and large, all running about $90. All used, from well used to nearly new. They also had some nice table saws, band saws, planes, etc etc. They also BUY used tools which is interesting , sort of like a tool guy's exchange service. this one is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, but I can't believe that this is the ONLy place there is one of these! Poke around. Just a suggestion.mark from cdn@ticon.net Wed Apr 11 21:46:14 2001 f3C2kDS17448 0000 (216.145.217.251) Subject: dip tubes Hi folks,Thanks to all for responding to my dip tubequery- theres nothing like the voice ofexperience! Looks like pvc gets the vote-cheap and relatively inert.regardsNed from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Wed Apr 11 22:06:05 2001 f3C365S18079 f3C367305962 Subject: Re: So long Sorry we didn't live up to your expectations, but raised blood pressureover a Gerhke thread??? Seems like a reality check is overdue. Justimagine what it must be for folks when real life problems hit like afamily member gets cancer or a friend needs a transplant or a spouseloses their job. Noone has ruined anything. If you don't know where yourdelete key is then why even subscribe in the first place? If you can'tsee the value of being on a list where, Thramer, Fick, Morgan, Cattanach,Bacon, Boyd, LeClair, Sapio, Perrigo, Venneri and many others reside...well...that's your loss...and it's sad. Regards, Bob On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bruce Conner wrote: Well, the fun has gone out of the list again and I don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad that a few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner from lblan@provide.net Wed Apr 11 22:33:00 2001 f3C3WxS18960 Subject: RE: So long Bruce has been with us for a long time... trust me, it will be our loss.What is really sad is the long line of names that have preceded him, for thesame reasons. Stop and consider the names that you did not mention,becausethey haven't been here in recent memory... Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.usSent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:06 PM Subject: Re: So long Sorry we didn't live up to your expectations, but raised blood pressureover a Gerhke thread??? Seems like a reality check is overdue. Justimagine what it must be for folks when real life problems hit like afamily member gets cancer or a friend needs a transplant or a spouseloses their job. Noone has ruined anything. If you don't know where yourdelete key is then why even subscribe in the first place? If you can'tsee the value of being on a list where, Thramer, Fick, Morgan, Cattanach,Bacon, Boyd, LeClair, Sapio, Perrigo, Venneri and many others reside...well...that's your loss...and it's sad. Regards, Bob On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bruce Conner wrote: Well, the fun has gone out of the list again and I don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad that a few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 22:40:27 2001 f3C3eQS19305 2001 20:40:30 PDT Subject: RE: So long i'm sorry, all, am i missing something here whathappened? did i miss some posts? i haven't readanything that i would think would cause someone to getupset and throw their hands up. timothy --- Larry Blan wrote:Bruce has been with us for a long time... trust me,it will be our loss.What is really sad is the long line of names thathave preceded him, for thesame reasons. Stop and consider the names that youdid not mention, becausethey haven't been here in recent memory... Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Ofrperry@suffolk.lib.ny.usSent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:06 PM Subject: Re: So long Sorry we didn't live up to your expectations, butraised blood pressureover a Gerhke thread??? Seems like a realitycheck is overdue. Justimagine what it must be for folks when real lifeproblems hit like afamily member gets cancer or a friend needs atransplant or a spouseloses their job. Noone has ruined anything. Ifyou don't know where yourdelete key is then why even subscribe in the firstplace? If you can'tsee the value of being on a list where, Thramer,Fick, Morgan, Cattanach,Bacon, Boyd, LeClair, Sapio, Perrigo, Venneri andmany others reside...well...that's your loss...and it's sad. Regards, Bob On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bruce Conner wrote: Well, the fun has gone out of the list again andI don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad thata few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner ====="Gooda' morning mister bear" "Here comes that dreamer!" they said to each other. "Come now, let's killhim....then we'll see what comes of his dreams." - Gen 37:19 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 11 22:50:49 2001 f3C3omS19713 Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:50:46 -0700 Subject: Re: So long Bob,You've got lots of different classes of rodmakers included in that laststatement, my friend. You must mean Chad Boyd from this list, because Idon'tdeserve to be mentioned with Morgan, Cattanach, LeClair and most of theothersyou named, and lots you didn't. What's really sad is that Bruce is leaving. If I remember correctly fromreading the archives, he was one of the earliest participants, if not one ofthe originators of this list. Dozens of rodmakers have gotten started withhis FAQ. I know it was a big help to me a few years back. His Taper programwas one of the earliest efforts at putting Garrison's stuff on computer. Yes, we all get our panties in a wad too easily. And there are things waymore important than making wooden fishing poles. And this week especially(Holy Week for Christians), I'm really reminded what they are. Harry rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: Sorry we didn't live up to your expectations, but raised blood pressureover a Gerhke thread??? Seems like a reality check is overdue. Justimagine what it must be for folks when real life problems hit like afamily member gets cancer or a friend needs a transplant or a spouseloses their job. Noone has ruined anything. If you don't know where yourdelete key is then why even subscribe in the first place? If you can'tsee the value of being on a list where, Thramer, Fick, Morgan, Cattanach,Bacon, Boyd, LeClair, Sapio, Perrigo, Venneri and many others reside...well...that's your loss...and it's sad. Regards, Bob On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bruce Conner wrote: Well, the fun has gone out of the list again and I don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad that a few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Wed Apr 11 23:23:50 2001 f3C4NnS20473 f3C4NqB12287; Subject: RE: So long On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Larry Blan wrote: Bruce has been with us for a long time... trust me, it will be our loss.What is really sad is the long line of names that have preceded him, for thesame reasons. Stop and consider the names that you did not mention,becausethey haven't been here in recent memory... Folks come and go for many personal reasons. It's the nature of our lives. The best way to combat a boring or inappropriate thread is to ask aquestion or start a good thread. Not to get all worked up and leave. Addgood content to drown out the bad. I apologize for adding to the badcontent. My intent was to encourage Bruce to stay by giving a differentperspective. Dealing with Gehrke spam is the list owner's dutyas he sees fit. But I would never have the right to say that someonecouldn't reply to a spammer if they felt the need or even to start anotherdreaded Gehrke thread (again, censorship is the list owner's discretion).George is a rodmaker for heaven's sake, like it or not. If you're shockedseeing a thread (or threads) on his rods on a rodmaker list well..I haveno reply. Once again, the delete key is the answer as necessary. Andserenity now. Regards, Bob from ctn45555@centurytel.net Wed Apr 11 23:25:34 2001 f3C4PUS20639 f3C4PVP12871 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Re: So long Harry Boyd wrote: Bob,You've got lots of different classes of rodmakers included in that laststatement, my friend. You must mean Chad Boyd from this list, because Idon'tdeserve to be mentioned with Morgan, Cattanach, LeClair and most of theothersyou named, and lots you didn't. Thanks Harry, but you are spotting me quite a bit of talent and experience.I'mcurrently putting the varnish on Rod Number One. Chad S. Boyd from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Apr 11 23:32:28 2001 f3C4WRS20966 Subject: Re: So Long I feel that maybe I might have caused all this.And for that I am truly Sorry.I would hope that no one would leave the list on account of my comments.But keep this in mind, If you don't except new people into the group , =just because you are not familiar with there name, than the list will = I really feel this might have been the first mistake I made on this =list. And those of you that have corresponded with me over the last few =months know me as a person who was always willing to share my =information.I have always tried to be polite. I guess my jokingGeorge was my way of hinting to him not too advertise.I do have to wonder if ( insert well known maker's name here) would have =made the joke if it would have been solacking of decency.So don't leave the list Bruce.If I have to leave because of one misjudged commentthan that's ok too . I'm more interested with making the best rod I can =than hob knobing with the bamboo elite.Once Again My apologiesFood for thoughtTony Miller OK I feel that maybe I might have caused = this.And for that I am truly =Sorry.I would hope that no one would leave = account of my comments.But keep this in = monotonous. I really feel this might have been the = mistake I made on this list. And those of you that have corresponded = over the last few months know me as a person who was always willing to = information.I have always tried to be polite. I = jokingGeorge was my way of hinting to himnot = advertise.I do have to wonder if ( insert well = name here) would have made the joke if it would have been =solacking of decency.So don't leave the list =Bruce.If I have to leave because of one = commentthan that's ok too . I'm more = making the best rod I can than hob knobing with the bamboo =elite.Once Again My apologiesFood for thoughtTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from miangler@yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 23:53:01 2001 f3C4r0S21666 2001 21:53:04 PDT Subject: Dessicants? Anyone tried Damp-Rid Crystals? I am always hearing about a product called Damp-Ridhawked on the radio. Has anyone tried this stuff? Apparently its availiable at most grocery andhome-improvement stores. Just curious...no financial interest etc... Mike =====http://miangler.homestead.com/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Apr 12 05:50:54 2001 f3CAorS26585 GAA04567; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: buying NS rings et al. Folks,I have just finished taking a woodturning course (and am acquiring alathe) to turn reel seats. At this point I don't intend to take upturning the metal components for the seats, or ferrules, so I amwondering if there is a source for the reel seat rings and small metalrings that go between the wood spacer and the cork?Thanks in advance, dws. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 12 06:14:27 2001 f3CBEQS27001 Subject: Re: So long/Gehrke Guys,Since Gehrke seems to get everyone so upset all the time and makes for bad feelings/comments on the list why don't we all just make a pact to never put another thing on the list about him and what he is doing. I for one have the great ability to hit the DELETE button when I see certain headings/titles in the subject box. When I got the Gehrke thread I sent him a note to please take me off any list he has for future posts. I do not care about him and I am not worried what he does. I have to admit that BC leaving the list is probably a great loss but that is his choice and i really do not see what he got in an uproar about.Bret from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Apr 12 06:20:24 2001 f3CBKNS27182 f3CBKQrd010256; "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: So long I just hit the delete key anytime I see anything I'm not interested in ! Thereal value here is sharing, but it doesn't say anywhere you have to listen !GMA from nobler@satx.rr.com Thu Apr 12 06:54:13 2001 f3CBsDS27682 f3CBsFrd014766; Subject: Re: Dessicants? Anyone tried Damp-Rid Crystals? Edmund Scientific, and Model Marc (sp) both carry silica crystals caged in aflat, metal cartridge. There is a window in each cartridge, that shows thesilica is dry as long as it's deep azure blue. When it has absorbed water,it turns pink. Baking in the oven at about 200 deg. F. dries them back tothe deep blue tone. These cost about $8 each, and last for years, as thereis no loss from the sealed cartridge. These are the best I've found fordrying.GMA from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Apr 12 06:55:17 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f3CBtHS27825 (5.5.2653.19) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: So long Actually it's sad when the extremely few let the very few ruin it for them,and then do their best to ruin it for the rest. Bye! -----Original Message----- Subject: So long Well, the fun has gone out of the list again and I don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad that a few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner from anglport@con2.com Thu Apr 12 07:12:36 2001 f3CCCZS28216 Subject: Re: Lathes and stuff Mark,WOW! Can you estimate the drivetime and give directions from NYC toCedarRapids? ;^) We have used tool suppliers in the City, but I've never evenheard of that kind of equipment at those kinds of prices! They dealprimarily in huge mfg tooling at commensurate prices.Art 10:20 PM 04/11/2001 EDT, Lazybee45@aol.com wrote:Hi again, I was wandering about today while waiting for my car to get fixed and went into a store called "Re-Tool" a sort of recycling shop for used tools. (If you dont have one, find a partner and start one!!) Kind of like a Thrift shop for tool heads.WELL!!! In there on the floor was a variety of lathes. Small, medium and large, all running about $90. All used, from well used to nearly new. They also had some nice table saws, band saws, planes, etc etc. They also BUY used tools which is interesting , sort of like a tool guy's exchange service. this one is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, but I can't believe that thisis the ONLy place there is one of these! Poke around. Just a suggestion.mark from beadman@mac.com Thu Apr 12 07:24:39 2001 f3CCOcS28568 Subject: Re: Lathes and stuff At 8:11 AM -0400 on 4/12/01, Art Port wrote about Re: Lathes and stuff Mark,WOW! Can you estimate the drivetime and give directions from NYC toCedarRapids? ;^) We have used tool suppliers in the City, but I've never evenheard of that kind of equipment at those kinds of prices! They dealprimarily in huge mfg tooling at commensurate prices. 1023.4 miles, 17 hours and 30 minutes, according to MapQuest. If anyone knows of more of this type of store please post the location, particularly if one is near Washington, DC. Thanks,Claude from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Thu Apr 12 08:14:53 2001 f3CDEqS29872 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:14:45 -0400 Subject: Re: buying NS rings et al. Dave LeClair or Bob Venneri would sell you just the hardware as will R.E.C. and others. If you have a lathe (or get one) that doesn't do fancy knurls, this is the way to go.Bob At 06:51 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Folks,I have just finished taking a woodturning course (and am acquiring alathe) to turn reel seats. At this point I don't intend to take upturning the metal components for the seats, or ferrules, so I amwondering if there is a source for the reel seat rings and small metalrings that go between the wood spacer and the cork?Thanks in advance, dws. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Apr 12 09:00:53 2001 f3CE0qS01805 Subject: Re: So long I hope you don't make it to long Bruce. You actually got me started in this. A friend dropped a reprint of your web page on my desk and after reading ita few times, I built my tools and started making rods. I couldn't have made itwithout you and Wayne. Don't stay gone! Best wishes,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.combconner@mediaone.net wrote:Well, the fun has gone out of the list again and I don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad that a few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 09:13:33 2001 f3CEDWS02509 HAA26284; Subject: Re: So Long I really appreciate the information that is dispensed on the list. I =however know the comments made about George were done with sarcasamand =with the intent of showing the displeasure in George using this list for =personel advertisement. I have never been to the rec.outdoor.flyfishing =newsgroup until recently. Reading the posts George has put there has =reasured me he will not be to upset with the sarcastic comments made on =this list. George often responds to others on ROFF as morons, stupid, =losers and idiotic. He then invites others to engage him and challenge =him. Well we are a bunch of good guys and gals on this list and it is =amazing some of us would be more upset with the sarcastic comments made=toward George than George himself. I believe George has not responded to =any comments made on this list recently about him. If he found the tone =of the replys about him as mean he definetly would reply, just check out =the ROFF. Well for those who find it noble to defend George I am sure he =will get a kick out of that. And for others who wish to leave because of =the treatment of George here I am sure he will get a kick out of that =also. If you are leaving the list because of the response to George's =advertisement we will miss you. Adam Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:32 PMSubject: Re: So Long I feel that maybe I might have caused all this.And for that I am truly Sorry.I would hope that no one would leave the list on account of my =comments.But keep this in mind, If you don't except new people into the group =, just because you are not familiar with there name, than the list will = I really feel this might have been the first mistake I made on this =list. And those of you that have corresponded with me over the last few =months know me as a person who was always willing to share my =information.I have always tried to be polite. I guess my jokingGeorge was my way of hinting to him not too advertise.I do have to wonder if ( insert well known maker's name here) would =have made the joke if it would have been solacking of decency.So don't leave the list Bruce.If I have to leave because of one misjudged commentthan that's ok too . I'm more interested with making the best rod I =can than hob knobing with the bamboo elite.Once Again My apologiesFood for thoughtTony Miller I really appreciate the information = dispensed on the list. I however know the comments made about George = rec.outdoor.flyfishing newsgroup until recently. Reading the posts = put there has reasured me he will not be to upset with the sarcastic = made on this list. George often responds to others on ROFF as morons, = losers and idiotic. He then invites others to engage him and challenge = we are a bunch of good guys and gals on this list and it is amazing some = would be more upset with the sarcastic comments made toward George than= himself. I believe George has not responded to any comments made on this = mean he definetly would reply, just check out the ROFF. Well for those = it noble to defend George I am sure he will get a kick out of that. And = others who wish to leave because of the treatment of George here I am = will get a kick out of that also. If you are leaving the list because of = response to George's advertisement we will miss you. Adam ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001= PMSubject: Re: So Long OK I feel that maybe I might have caused= this.And for that I am truly =Sorry.I would hope that no one would leave = account of my comments.But keep this in = because you are not familiar with there name, than the list will = become monotonous. I really feel this might have been = mistake I made on this list. And those of you that have corresponded = over the last few months know me as a person who was always willing to = my information.I have always tried to be polite. I = jokingGeorge was my way of hinting to him = advertise.I do have to wonder if ( insert well = solacking of decency.So don't leave the list =Bruce.If I have to leave because of one = commentthan that's ok too . I'm more = making the best rod I can than hob knobing with the bamboo =elite.Once Again MyapologiesFood for thoughtTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from bhoy551@earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 09:21:39 2001 f3CELdS02976 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:21:46 -0400 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. FILETIME=[E7D4D820:01C0C35B] Speaking of knurls. I've been saving for an import 7X12 lathe, but I've noticed that all the knurling setups in the catalogs are very expensive. The cheapest one I've seen comes close to the price of the lathe itself. Am I looking at the wrong thing, or is there an alternative method for knurling? Also, it seems to me that knurling different size diameters would require different size knurnling wheels, otherwise the knurls would overlap at the begining/ending point. Is this correct? Obviously, I'm completely clueless when it comes to machining metal parts, so any clues would certainly be welcome. Bill At 09:12 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote:Dave LeClair or Bob Venneri would sell you just the hardware as will R.E.C. and others. If you have a lathe (or get one) that doesn't do fancy knurls, this is the way to go.Bob At 06:51 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Folks,I have just finished taking a woodturning course (and am acquiring alathe) to turn reel seats. At this point I don't intend to take upturning the metal components for the seats, or ferrules, so I amwondering if there is a source for the reel seat rings and small metalrings that go between the wood spacer and the cork?Thanks in advance, dws. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Apr 12 09:31:48 2001 f3CEVDS03381 bmaulucci@adelphia.net Subject: Re: buying NS rings et al. --Message-Boundary-4467 Everyone.Here are plans for a beveler that I an building. It is designed after the new Leonard bevelers. I owned one that Hap Mills had. You can make the machine for around $4000-$5000 depending what you use for spindles. I have purchased some from Taiwan, they are good quality and cheap. If anyone needs detail drawings I will send them to the list later.Best Hal from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Thu Apr 12 09:42:28 2001 f3CEgSS03928 Subject: One basic guideline... ...set forth in many listserv lists, this list included, is when making a reply to the list, before you hit the ol' key, ask yourself: Is this something that should be directed to the entire list, or the sender of the original post? Now, before I start my little mini-rant I want to say this is not directed atany one person, but should be considered as just general net-etiquette... Without exception, every "George" reply that was directed to the list should have gone back to George and/or his internet provider, not the list. The list was purposely set up so that replys go back to the sender...you have to go out of your way to also send the list. I'm sure George doesn't read the list, so any complaints about him are wasted if sent to list, and I am equally sure that while standing up to list abuse in itself is a good thing, most times it has the reverse effect, and ends up causing more turmoil than good. Just consider for a moment the impact if all the "George" messages that we provider...now *that* might have done some good... Okay folks RANT MODE ... :-) I take a deep breath, and gaze at the screen saver Charlie Curro so kindly weekends ago, dreaming of schools of steelhead swimming at my feet... Look forward to seeing many of you at the upcoming Gatherings! Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from anglport@con2.com Thu Apr 12 09:48:20 2001 f3CEmJS04356 Subject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. Bill,I think it's safe to say you're looking at the wrong items. A knurlshouldn't cost more than a plane, lots less if you can find a shop thatdeals in used machine tools! I've never used the ones I have (garage saletreasures!) so I can't give you competent help with their use, but you'redefinitely looking in the wrong place, unless you have a $50 lathe!Art At 10:22 AM 04/12/2001 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:Speaking of knurls. I've been saving for an import 7X12 lathe, but I've noticed that all the knurling setups in the catalogs are very expensive. The cheapest one I've seen comes close to the price of the lathe itself. Am I looking at the wrong thing, or is there an alternative method for knurling? Also, it seems to me that knurling different size diameters would require different size knurnling wheels, otherwise the knurls would overlap at the begining/ending point. Is this correct? Obviously, I'm completely clueless when it comes to machining metal parts, so any clues would certainly be welcome. Bill At 09:12 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote:Dave LeClair or Bob Venneri would sell you just the hardware as will R.E.C. and others. If you have a lathe (or get one) that doesn't do fancy knurls, this is the way to go.Bob At 06:51 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Folks,I have just finished taking a woodturning course (and am acquiring alathe) to turn reel seats. At this point I don't intend to take upturning the metal components for the seats, or ferrules, so I amwondering if there is a source for the reel seat rings and small metalrings that go between the wood spacer and the cork?Thanks in advance, dws. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Apr 12 11:47:10 2001 f3CGl9S10208 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:47:05 -0700 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:47:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. FILETIME=[34347360:01C0C370] Good morning All, I am in the same place as Bill, saving and getting ready to purchase alathe. Does anyone have a recommendation for a web site(s) that areinstructional on the use of lathes. Is it possible to have a lathe that doesboth wood and metal? I am definitely at square one, here. Thank you all inadvance. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Bill Hoy Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:22 AMSubject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. Speaking of knurls. I've been saving for an import 7X12 lathe, but I'venoticed that all the knurling setups in the catalogs are very expensive.The cheapest one I've seen comes close to the price of the lathe itself.AmI looking at the wrong thing, or is there an alternative method forknurling? Also, it seems to me that knurling different size diameterswouldrequire different size knurnling wheels, otherwise the knurls wouldoverlapat the begining/ending point. Is this correct? Obviously, I'm completelyclueless when it comes to machining metal parts, so any clues wouldcertainly be welcome. Bill At 09:12 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote:Dave LeClair or Bob Venneri would sell you just the hardware as willR.E.C. and others. If you have a lathe (or get one) that doesn't do fancyknurls, this is the way to go.Bob At 06:51 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Folks,I have just finished taking a woodturning course (and am acquiringalathe) to turn reel seats. At this point I don't intend to take upturning the metal components for the seats, or ferrules, so I amwondering if there is a source for the reel seat rings and small metalrings that go between the wood spacer and the cork?Thanks in advance, dws. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from rgelder@excite.ca Thu Apr 12 11:48:13 2001 f3CGmCS10346 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:48:11 -0700 Subject: Re: So long Sorry to see you go Bruce. I just wanted to thank you for yourcontributions to the list. Your FAQ site was the first site I found a fewyears ago and got me started down this road. It convinced me that I coulddo this if I tried. For that I thank you. On another note.Did anybody but me notice that Mr. G subscribed, sent his message and thenunsubscribed. He didn't even see any of the commotion that followed. ....ron On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:29:30 -0400, bconner@mediaone.net wrote: Well, the fun has gone out of the list again and I don't intend to raisemy blood pressure over it. It's always sad that a few ruin it for themany. With that said, I take my leave. Bruce Conner _______________________________________________________Get 100% FREE email for life from Excite CanadaVisit http://mail.excite.ca from cathcreek@hotmail.com Thu Apr 12 12:10:08 2001 f3CHA7S11734 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:10:06 -0700 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:10:06 GMT Subject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. FILETIME=[6BD15470:01C0C373] Here are some:http://www.cctrap.com/~varmint/alath.htm http://www.cyberramp.net/~mike/ml/minilathe.htm Both are great resources. I just got mine set up recently and love it. Rob Clarke From: "Richard R. Dutcher" Subject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al.Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:47:01 -0700 Good morning All, I am in the same place as Bill, saving and getting ready to purchase alathe. Does anyone have a recommendation for a web site(s) that areinstructional on the use of lathes. Is it possible to have a lathe that doesboth wood and metal? I am definitely at square one, here. Thank you all inadvance. Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com ----- Original Message -----From: Bill Hoy Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:22 AMSubject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. Speaking of knurls. I've been saving for an import 7X12 lathe, but I'venoticed that all the knurling setups in the catalogs are very expensive.The cheapest one I've seen comes close to the price of the lathe itself.AmI looking at the wrong thing, or is there an alternative method forknurling? Also, it seems to me that knurling different size diameterswouldrequire different size knurnling wheels, otherwise the knurls wouldoverlapat the begining/ending point. Is this correct? Obviously, I'm completelyclueless when it comes to machining metal parts, so any clues wouldcertainly be welcome. Bill At 09:12 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote:Dave LeClair or Bob Venneri would sell you just the hardware as willR.E.C. and others. If you have a lathe (or get one) that doesn't do fancyknurls, this is the way to go.Bob At 06:51 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Folks,I have just finished taking a woodturning course (and am acquiringalathe) to turn reel seats. At this point I don't intend to take upturning the metal components for the seats, or ferrules, so I amwondering if there is a source for the reel seat rings and small metalrings that go between the wood spacer and the cork?Thanks in advance, dws. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from if6were9@bellsouth.net Thu Apr 12 12:23:20 2001 f3CHNJS13128 Subject: Re: So Long To those that would leave this list over a few simple words. It isamazing that you would allow anyone to have that much power over yourlife. If you build for a hobby, is it not for the enjoyment it brings?If you build for a living, why be worried about someone that is a knownblowhard, or comments about same? I would venture to guess that anyoneupset enough to leave the list over what amounts to nothing more than afew words would need a break to gain some prospective on what rodbuilding (bamboo or otherwise) really means to them. In many 12 stepprograms there is an unofficial "13th step" that (at least for me) sumsup the current exodus of long time list members, "Don't take yourselftoo seriously". Just the opinion of a lurking, plastic rod building,bamboo wannabe. from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 12:46:44 2001 f3CHkhS14171 2001 10:46:46 PDT I was wondering if anyone sells the open screw-lock,downlocking, wood insert reelseats anymore or ifanyone has any of the older ones they would be willingto part with? To see what I mean go tohttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1132684350(the last photo shows a good view of the reelseat). Ido not have any financial interests in this deal andit is being presented purely as an example of what I'mtalking about. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Apr 12 13:02:41 2001 f3CI2eS14959 Subject: For sale on eBay --------------711A269E002294E8494B9857 Friends,Thought I'd share this with you, just to lighten thingsup a little bit. Someone shared it on another list-serveI'm a part of. All you need is a good cane rod to go withthis particular item.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131799104 No interest, yada, yada, yada Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------711A269E002294E8494B9857 Friends, item. cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131799104 --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------711A269E002294E8494B9857-- from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Apr 12 13:04:15 2001 f3CI4ES15117 f3CI3rD09132; Rodmakers Subject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. Bill,.Try the Travers Catalog I have had good luck withthem Knurling does sometimes repeat or develop strangely. What I do is reducethediameter until I find one that works. There are other methods(mathematical)that I can look up for you if you find you need them.Ed Hartzell Bill Hoy wrote: Speaking of knurls. I've been saving for an import 7X12 lathe, but I'venoticed that all the knurling setups in the catalogs are very expensive.The cheapest one I've seen comes close to the price of the lathe itself. AmI looking at the wrong thing, or is there an alternative method forknurling? Also, it seems to me that knurling different size diameters wouldrequire different size knurnling wheels, otherwise the knurls would overlapat the begining/ending point. Is this correct? Obviously, I'm completelyclueless when it comes to machining metal parts, so any clues wouldcertainly be welcome. Bill At 09:12 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote:Dave LeClair or Bob Venneri would sell you just the hardware as willR.E.C. and others. If you have a lathe (or get one) that doesn't do fancyknurls, this is the way to go.Bob At 06:51 AM 4/12/2001 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:Folks,I have just finished taking a woodturning course (and am acquiring alathe) to turn reel seats. At this point I don't intend to take upturning the metal components for the seats, or ferrules, so I amwondering if there is a source for the reel seat rings and small metalrings that go between the wood spacer and the cork?Thanks in advance, dws. Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Apr 12 13:20:14 2001 f3CIKDS16024 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: For sale on eBay Harry,Hardy makes (made?) a "priest" with a hex bamboo shaft and brasshead. Quite an elegant instrument for administering the last rites, and more in keeping with cane rods. : )Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Thought I'd share this with you, just to lighten things up a little bit. Someone shared it on another list-serve I'm a part of. All you need is a good cane rod to go with this particular item.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131799104 No interest, yada, yada, yada Harry-- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church -- from dryfly@erols.com Thu Apr 12 13:25:30 2001 f3CIPTS16435 ([207.172.207.116] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: For sale on eBay --------------01A8A6F3455714C5F6BDC9C4 Harry this is right up your alley. I think they call these trout orsalmon priests and can't we think of you kinda like a trout priest(pastor). Bob Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Thought I'd share this with you, just to lighten things up alittle bit. Someone shared it on another list-serve I'm a part of.All you need is a good cane rod to go with this particular item.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131799104No interest, yada, yada, yada Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------01A8A6F3455714C5F6BDC9C4 or salmon priests and can't we think of you kinda like a trout priest (pastor).BobHarry Boyd wrote:Friends, item. cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131799104 --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." Bamboo Rods Our Church --------------01A8A6F3455714C5F6BDC9C4-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Apr 12 13:25:45 2001 f3CIPiS16458 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Downlocking reelseats Bill,Don't forget Tony Young -- www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html. Hemade this seat in bronze for me, with detachable fighting butt --- http://www.overmywaders.com/reelseat.jpg Usual disclaimers apply.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bill Walters wrote: I was wondering if anyone sells the open screw-lock,downlocking, wood insert reelseats anymore or ifanyone has any of the older ones they would be willingto part with? To see what I mean go tohttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1132684350(the last photo shows a good view of the reelseat). Ido not have any financial interests in this deal andit is being presented purely as an example of what I'mtalking about. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 13:51:43 2001 f3CIpgS18344 2001 11:51:45 PDT Subject: Re: Downlocking reelseats Reed, I just went to Tony's website and he doesn't havereelseats listed anymore, unless I'm going more blindthan usual. Bill Walters --- Reed Curry wrote:Bill,Don't forget Tony Young -- www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html. He made this seat in bronze for me, with detachable fightingbutt --- http://www.overmywaders.com/reelseat.jpg Usual disclaimers apply.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bill Walters wrote: I was wondering if anyone sells the openscrew-lock,downlocking, wood insert reelseats anymore or ifanyone has any of the older ones they would bewillingto part with? To see what I mean go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1132684350(the last photo shows a good view of thereelseat). Ido not have any financial interests in this dealandit is being presented purely as an example of whatI'mtalking about. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Apr 12 13:56:27 2001 f3CIuQS18702 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:56:28 +0100 Subject: Re: For sale on eBay Correct ,the item is a 'priest' so called beacuse they are used toadminister the last rites !They are extremely common here in the UK and I would say almost everygamefisher I know has one, even me.They are most often found in thetackle bags of still water fishers for giving the old rainbow a whack onthe head !Tight lines........Paul Robert S Williams wrote: Harry this is right up your alley. I think they call these trout orsalmon priests and can't we think of you kinda like a trout priest(pastor). Bob Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,Thought I'd share this with you, just to lighten things up alittle bit. Someone shared it on another list-serve I'm a part of.All you need is a good cane rod to go with this particular item.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131799104No interest, yada, yada, yada Harry--Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 12 14:09:11 2001 f3CJ9AS19477 Subject: Re: For sale on eBay Harry,My dad always carried a priest in his tackle box and one in his vest. I remember the first time I saw it i thought what the heck would a grown man want witha little baseball bat in his tackle box. The first big pike that came on board I found out the reason. "WHACK" right between the eyes. Ihave even made a few of them in the last 20+ years as gifts.Bret from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Apr 12 14:13:59 2001 f3CJDvS19992 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Downlocking reelseats Bill,Tony's website presents certain navigational difficulties, just pretend it was written by an Aussie with a case of Guinness at hand. : )His reelseats are at http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/avyreel.htm Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bill Walters wrote: Reed, I just went to Tony's website and he doesn't havereelseats listed anymore, unless I'm going more blindthan usual. Bill Walters from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Apr 12 14:21:32 2001 f3CJLVS20483 Rodmakers , bhoy551@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Knurls, was buying NS rings et al. Bill.M.S.C Industrial Supply Co. Has all kinds of knurls starting at $8.20 for a single wheel knurl to $ 14.20 for a self-ajusting pivot headmodel that has 2 heads, and upward depending on what you want to spend. The 2 head model is the knurling tool that I use to knurl the hardware that I make, Best Hal Bacon from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Apr 12 15:04:23 2001 f3CK4LS22926 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:54:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Reelseat f3CK4NS22927 I think Bellinger Reel Seats has that style. The open threads, downlocking. Payne style reelseat with Spanish Cedar insert. I'm not sure who might sellthese, possibly Golden Witch or one of the Bellinger reelseat retailers? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu Bill Walters 04/12/01 10:46AM >>>I was wondering if anyone sells the open screw-lock,downlocking, wood insert reelseats anymore or ifanyone has any of the older ones they would be willingto part with? To see what I mean go tohttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1132684350 (the last photo shows a good view of the reelseat). Ido not have any financial interests in this deal andit is being presented purely as an example of what I'mtalking about. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Apr 12 17:19:56 2001 f3CMJtS28382 f3CMJvZ01312; Subject: Re: your mail The Maurer reelseat looks like a Strubel D-1 to me Bill. I can scan thepic out of the Strubel catalog if you want to compare. Key features arethe coarse threads and the upper hood being the threaded lock nut(Strubel calls it "rounded threads and a one-piece diamond knurled hooded lock nut"). Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Bill Walters wrote: I was wondering if anyone sells the open screw-lock,downlocking, wood insert reelseats anymore or ifanyone has any of the older ones they would be willingto part with? To see what I mean go tohttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1132684350(the last photo shows a good view of the reelseat). Ido not have any financial interests in this deal andit is being presented purely as an example of what I'mtalking about. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Apr 12 17:46:31 2001 f3CMkUS29449 forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: Bizarre doodad on ebay... A H-I Bamboo Splitter Anybody know how this thing a ma jig works? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131844730 I can't figure it out... No financial interest... just curious... Darrellwww.vfish.net from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Apr 12 17:58:11 2001 f3CMwBS29960 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:57:52 -0700 Subject: Man-O-War Spar Varnish f3CMwBS29961 I bought a new can of the Man-O-War Spar Varnish, red label gloss. I noticethe instructions say "Do not thin". Is there a valid reason for this or is it anenvironmental preference not to introduce thinners? Are those of you whoare using this product thinning it regardless or do you find the viscosity tobe good right out of the can? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Thu Apr 12 18:06:54 2001 f3CN6rS00363 Subject: on the lighter side Okay, you guys, Someone suggested lightening things up... so here's some affectionatenonsense (sung to the tune of The Candyman). Yes, we'll admit it: there'sjust been a lot of snow up here in Maine! The Cane-D-Man Who can take a culm of cane,Flame it to a hue,Cover it with varnish and a strippin' guide or two?The Cane-d-man can.The Cane-d-man can.The Cane-d- man can cuz he mixes it with love until the rod casts good. (wait, there's more!!) The Cane-d-man makesEverything he makesSatisfying when it swishes.Talk about your childhood wishes...You can even catch some fishes! (repeat first verse at your option) ...as we said ... LOTS of snow still :-) Kathy and David from cathcreek@hotmail.com Thu Apr 12 18:18:35 2001 f3CNIYS00866 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:18:32 -0700 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:18:32 GMT Subject: Re: Man-O-War Spar Varnish FILETIME=[E455A760:01C0C3A6] Chris, I use mine right out of the can. 3 coats of tung oil and 1 dip in Spar and she's done. I don't thin mine, but I don't do multiple coats. My best, Rob From: "Christopher McDowell" Subject: Man-O-War Spar VarnishDate: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:57:47 -0700 I bought a new can of the Man-O-War Spar Varnish, red label gloss. I notice the instructions say "Do not thin". Is there a valid reason for this or is it an environmental preference not to introduce thinners? Are those of you who are using this product thinning it regardless or do you find the viscosity to be good right out of the can? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Apr 12 18:27:27 2001 f3CNRQS01276 Subject: Re: Man-O-War Spar Varnish VOC law promted that notice. Does not apply to "craft use" (us) CS Repsaid to thin w/ mineral spirits. Long thread on this some months back.Look at Dr. Zimny's remarks. Brian from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Apr 12 18:27:39 2001 f3CNRcS01287 Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:27:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Bizarre doodad on ebay... A H-I Bamboo Splitter --------------38DEAD01BADE2D290BFA2ED6 Darrell,I can't figure that one out, either. Perhaps the two littleround gizmo's on the end are used to lever a strip off of a culm? Iexpected to see a star splitter, but that ain't what this is.I'm tempted to buy it just to play with it...... Harry Darrell Lee wrote: Anybody know how this thing a ma jig works? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131844730 I can't figure it out... No financial interest... just curious... Darrellwww.vfish.net --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------38DEAD01BADE2D290BFA2ED6 Darrell, the two little round gizmo's on the end are used to lever a strip off of is. Darrell Lee wrote:Anybody know how this thing a ma jig works?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131844730I can't figure it out...No financial interest... just curious...Darrellwww.vfish.net --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------38DEAD01BADE2D290BFA2ED6-- from HomeyDKlown@att.net Thu Apr 12 18:30:07 2001 f3CNU6S01643 ;Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:30:05 +0000 Subject: RE: Man-O-War Spar Varnish Chris, I think it's a "green thing". I thin my Man O' War with no ill effects. Iuse purified (I think it's filtered) mineral spirits. Dennis -----Original Message----- McDowell Subject: Man-O-War Spar Varnish I bought a new can of the Man-O-War Spar Varnish, red label gloss. I noticethe instructions say "Do not thin". Is there a valid reason for this or isit an environmental preference not to introduce thinners? Are those of youwho are using this product thinning it regardless or do you find theviscosity to be good right out of the can? Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Apr 12 18:36:40 2001 f3CNadS01980 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:36:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Bizarre doodad on ebay... A H-I Bamboo Splitter f3CNaeS01981 It is hard to picture what that thing is used for unless it is a part from alarger device and the stampings to identify it are on this piece. Maybe it's amis labeled Horrock Ibbotsen double trout wacker with the kung fu grip. Chris Harry Boyd 04/12/01 04:26PM >>>Darrell,I can't figure that one out, either. Perhaps the two littleround gizmo's on the end are used to lever a strip off of a culm? Iexpected to see a star splitter, but that ain't what this is.I'm tempted to buy it just to play with it...... Harry Darrell Lee wrote: Anybody know how this thing a ma jig works? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131844730 I can't figure it out... No financial interest... just curious... Darrellwww.vfish.net --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Thu Apr 12 18:51:14 2001 f3CNpCS02537 ev_ntme.ev.state.az.us +0000 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:25:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Mills consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to Bob- First, I agree with Dave about the lathe being a very versatile tool- You =can set them up to do many (but not all) jobs just as well or better than =a mill- Another consideration about a mill includes the space they eat up =in your shop- The table slides in and out, side to side and up and down- =you need enough room to move yourself around it safely when its in =extended positions-this space ended up taking much more of my shop than =anticipated- Do yourself a favor and measure this out before you haul one =home- On the other hand, because I can also use it as a regular drill =press, I sold and thus removed two of three existing drill presses- this =not only made some room for the mill but also helped offset the cost- Also =consider the power requirements- I had to wire in 240 volts and build a =phase inverter for mine- They can be very messy as well- far more than a =lathe- They tend to throw cuttings great distances in all directions- Many =times I will use a piece of sheet metal or ply-wood as a shield- They are =not cheap either- my guess is pound for pound about the same as a lathe = However, if given a choice between having two lathes or a lathe/mill =