Subject: Re: bass rod vs. trout rod I use my PHY Boat Rod (taper is in hexrod archive BTW) for bass bugs and (carefully) Clauser nymphs. It has great line lifting capability with good tip strength and enough butt to get the job done. The high line speed (for bamboo) moves a #7 ug taper very well. And the 8 foot length keeps it from being unwieldy. Rob Hoffhines from jkcerise@rof.net Wed Apr 18 22:04:15 2001 f3J34ES23918 Subject: GG's Rods At 10:23 PM 4/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:Guys,here is what I will do. I do not think that any of you have anything toworry about. GG told me this is a production rod like Heddon, So.bend andothers made. I have a brand new old stock Heddon rod I will compare this to.This is where the evaluation will come from. If the rod sucks i will tellyou all if it is OK i will tell you that as well. If the guys who areworried want me to i will compare it to what you are making as well. Justsend me a rod to look at and I will guard it with my life. Or bring one ofyour rods to my house and compare yours to this rod.I do not intend to hold anything back if this rod sucks either.BretOK guys and girls!I can't be there, and wouldn't be able to tell you with any fraction of authority or expertise how that GG rod casts or not, BUT,,, I could tell you if 'I' liked the way it handled or not! Is a good rod not unlike a good wine to some degree? Geezo folks, if I happen to like Wooden Plum Vineyards oaken vat '92, is it not, as far as I am concerned, "A Good Wine"? I have taken a look at GG's rods at the spring FF show in Denver. I did not see anything to brag about, even as a "production" rod. I did not have an opportunity to cast them, but the finish put me off big time! I would not buy a Maseratti if the paint job was as bad as GG's bamboo rods had at almost any price! Nor would I buy a Ford or Chevy with the same. The fact that it is a "production" rod does not excuse shoddy workmanship. The old Chevy Impala was a production car and it was a great one, WITH a decent paint finish, I might add, so I bought one or two of them over the years. A Rolls, they were not and I suspect that GG's sample he's sending will not be either. Worth $10, probably, worth $650, not to me, but I'm no expert. Let's put our faith in the makers who CAN go test this thing and see if it rolls over in the tight corners at track speed. I trust your opinions, lets have them.Let's make a GG clave out of this! All of you who can and are interested enough to be there, go try this thing out and see how it really meets your critical eye. Go, for all of us who cannot! Be my eyes and ears and casting arm. Come back to the list with your opinions, gripes, put-downs and say what you have to say. If for no other reason to let the rest of us out here really know how the thing goes. If GG sends a primo rod to Bret, so much for him. If he sends a rod like the ones I saw in Denver, so be it that too.Keep in mind that this thing WILL be akin to sending the Rolls test drivers out to the Ford test track to test F-100's and more than likely you will not find a Rolls to drive, but worth a test and a report anyway.I'm not worried in the least that GG is going to take my 'plastic' rod customer away. I do not compete with him. Don't wanna, ain't gonna!!! Keep it in the back of your minds that NEITHER DO YOU!!! Rolls Royce doesn't give a rat's butt what Ford makes or sells of how they sell it. GG's ads can tout these rods as being as nice a piece of artwork, but we know better! You guys and gals put your hearts into your rods, just like I do mine. No rod will ever leave my shop with as crappy a finish on it as the Denver demos had, but that is what sets mine and yours especially so far apart from the fords he's selling. Sometimes, it is better to keep feeding all the rope he'll take to a guy and let the public give him a knot class!This group of rod makers, who I have lurked with, hoping to learn a few things about caners and their products, is a very elite group, dedicated to their own quality standards. I think that they are pretty high standards you all set, not really for your customer, although that is a factor, but list. Thanks for listening, John from setissma@email.msn.com Wed Apr 18 22:19:02 2001 f3J3J1S24316 Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:18:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Little engineering (mathematics) help, please FILETIME=[7A178F20:01C0C87F] Harry: I think that the the surface of your forms is no longer flat. Have themsurface ground at a machine shop. Should cost about 40 bucks. As for theadjustment during filing, I will leave comments on that to more experiencedmakers. Jeff Schaeffer from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Apr 18 22:27:37 2001 f3J3RbS24641 0400 Subject: Re: GG's Rods JohnI will be going to see the Gehrke rod.Tony Miller John rod.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Apr 18 22:35:47 2001 f3J3ZgS24974 Apr 2001 20:35:41 PDT Subject: Interesting Fish Story (Not rodmaking, but heh!) NEW PLYMOUTH, New Zealand - Folks from New Zealandtake their fishing seriously. Take Bev Marshall-Smith, 56, whowas fishing with her husband at a beach on the west coast of NewZealand's North Island. When a large fish chased her lure intothe shallows she picked up a piece of driftwood andcharged in to claim her prize. When the truculent predator refusedto expire quietly Marshall-Smith beat it into submission. Itturned out to be a nearly 6-foot blue shark. "I didn't realize itwas a shark. I just went and grabbed it," she said, "Everytime he wrestled I hit him." __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from bamboorods@siskiyou.net Wed Apr 18 22:51:42 2001 f3J3pbS25492 03:52:36 -0000 Subject: Fiddle or violin Both the fiddle and the violin make music. Generally, a fine violin is =worth much more than your average fiddle. They both look the same and =act the same in the hands of an inexperienced musician. It takes =someone experienced to place great worth on the violin. Or fly rod. If =he made a fine rod, he would charge and receive, a good price. He =doesn't so he don't. We know it and he knows it. Both the fiddle and the violin make= Generally, a fine violin is worth much more than your average = knows it. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 18 23:25:12 2001 f3J4PBS26744 Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:25:11 -0700 Rodmakers Subject: Re: form tune-up Don,No, both sides of the form are out of whack. But the good news is that Ionly had to do the measurements with the feeler gauges once. Then I simplyused the dial indicator depth gauge to take a measurement at each station.After I recorded that measurement, I'm using it as a reference point and cantake all further measurements with the dial indicator. Much less timeconsuming. As soon as the file tool begins to take off metal the length oftheforms, I'm through. Does that make sense? Harry Don Schneider wrote: Harry, it for a .001"/inch taper using a 60* point and then you would have theright progressive spread to cleanup the tip side. Just a thought.Don Don,Yes, I'd love to see the file-tool you come up with. Andyes, I think if I just set the forms up the way they should beand start filing I'll come out okay in the end. And oh, if thetool works out the way you hope, I'd be glad to put somethingabout it on my website. Thanks,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dutcher@email.msn.com Thu Apr 19 02:53:57 2001 f3J7ruS03629 Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:53:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Gerke Rods FILETIME=[E20B6310:01C0C8A5] Hi Bret, Just to make your evaluation a little more complicated, why not add theChinese entry from Zhuji Bamboo Fly Rod Company Ltd.? Actually, I would bemore interested in what is going on over there.http://go2.163.com/~bamboofishing/ Regards,Dick Richard R. Dutcherdutcher@msn.com name="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" filename="Richard R. Dutcher.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Dutcher;Richard;R.FN:Richard R. DutcherNICKNAME:DickORG:Trumpet Methodology, Inc.TEL;WORK;VOICE:206- 660-1705ADR;WORK:;;P. O. Box 349;Brinnon;Washington;98320-0349;USA URL;WORK:http://www.geckotech.com/dutcherEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:dutcher@msn.comREV:20010419T075348ZEND:VCARD from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 19 03:13:36 2001 f3J8DYS04321 Subject: Re: Interesting Fish Story (Not rodmaking, but heh!) Take note of this story. Bev is more than likely a fishing inspector andactually had plans on releasing the fish after measuring it :-). NEVER fishwithout a lic in NZ! Tony At 08:35 PM 4/18/01 -0700, Bill Walters wrote: NEW PLYMOUTH, New Zealand - Folks from New Zealandtake their fishing seriously. Take Bev Marshall-Smith, 56, whowas fishing with her husband at a beach on the west coast of NewZealand's North Island. When a large fish chased her lure intothe shallows she picked up a piece of driftwood andcharged in to claim her prize. When the truculent predator refusedto expire quietly Marshall-Smith beat it into submission. Itturned out to be a nearly 6-foot blue shark. "I didn't realize itwas a shark. I just went and grabbed it," she said, "Everytime he wrestled I hit him." __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from rextutor@about.com Thu Apr 19 07:02:16 2001 f3JC2ES09680 (NPlex 5.1.050) 2001 05:00:53 -0700 Subject: Devine parts AS I recall someone here owns the Devine line, right ? Could that person please direct me to ferrules and general compnents costs . Asking a question for a friend.thanks Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from darrell@rockclimbing.org Thu Apr 19 09:36:05 2001 f3JEa4S14554 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: RE: Devine parts Apparently, Michael Sinclair has the trademark, but I don't believe that hehas any components yet. Bob Venneri makes some reast that are based ontheDivine rods... I don't think Sinclair is on this list however. Oh... as Dean B. or Michael would say... it's spelled DIVINE !!! Good luck... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Devine parts AS I recall someone here owns the Devine line, right ? Could thatperson please direct me to ferrules and general compnents costs .Asking a question for a friend.thanks Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Apr 19 09:49:39 2001 f3JEncS15409 [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod Sometimes terminal velocity refers to how slow my computer is..... >: ( -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod let's see...terminal velocity is when the big hair bughits you in the back of the head, right? :-) timothy from Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com Thu Apr 19 10:16:44 2001 f3JFGhS16506 0700 Thu Apr 19 09:18:00 2001 -0700 Service (5.5.2653.19) "'Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Divine parts Michael Sinclair owns the trademark, but his plans to revive the companyhave been shelved for a while. Goldenwitch has a very nice early styleDivine reproduction reelseat, but no one makes a ferrule that is even close.Also, Divine made about 8 different ferrules that I've been able to identifyso it would depend on which one you want. If you're trying to match aferrule you'll probably need to have them made. Divine started usingPerfection tips and guides in the 1920's so rods of that vintage are easy tomatch. Earlier rods appear with just about every possible combination ofguides. Let me know if you want any more information. -----Original Message----- Subject: Devine parts AS I recall someone here owns the Devine line, right ? Could that person please direct me to ferrules and general compnents costs . Asking a question for a friend.thanks Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 19 10:59:26 2001 f3JFxPS18608 Subject: RE: Divine parts Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I will bet you Tony Young or Dave Leclair could match those ferrules if you are willing to pay what would be a fair price for the labor involved.Bret from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Thu Apr 19 11:00:20 2001 f3JG0IS18745 19 Apr 2001 12:00:17 -0400 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod I have to agree with Rob here. The rod attributes that he describes areneeded for a bass fly rod. The softer bamboos like a Leonard 50 1/2 action don't have the punch to geta line off the water or horse a "big un" as you Southern Folks say. Rob mentions the PHY boat rod with a 7 weight line. That Rod will handlemost bass fishing quite well. I think a Dickerson 8015 guide would make anice bass fly rod too. The bamboos that I like and have used are a Heddon#35 and a beefed up Mike Clark Gierach Special these also handle most bassfishing situations well. If you want to cast the big stuff - Pig Boats, 3/0 hair bugs, and McNallyfrogs -- an 8 to 9 weight will serve you better. I am still looking for oneof these in an 8 foot form. I might have Rob do one for me someday. The terminal velocity issue is really a question of big hair bug versus lineweight. You can get a big hair bug moving faster with a 9 weight than witha 6 weight. Back in my B.C. days (before Canada) - I did most of my bassing with 6 to 8weight rods. If the wind was blowing and I wanted to cast a big bug - myOrvis shooting star, a Powell, or one of my Bonadonnas would also send thebig bugs out in fine fashion. The O and the Bs were 8/9 weights. I foundthe 8 weight capable of casting all my big flies. The shooting star and oneof the Bonadonnas were 9 foot 9 weights - they can be a challenge to castall day with a phleuger 1498 attached to the reelseat. Cheers, Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: bass rod vs. trout rod I use my PHY Boat Rod (taper is in hexrod archive BTW) for bass bugs and (carefully) Clauser nymphs. It has great line lifting capability with good tip strength and enough butt to get the job done. The high line speed (for bamboo) moves a #7 ug taper very well. And the 8 foot length keeps it from being unwieldy. Rob Hoffhines from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 12:06:35 2001 f3JH6YS22510 2001 10:06:38 PDT Subject: Quad Taper for 7.5, 4 wt Does anyone have a proven Quad taper for a 7.5', 4 wt?I've been looking through the online info and can'tfind anything. If you have one and can send it to me,please give me an idea as to what the perceived actionis. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com Thu Apr 19 14:00:53 2001 f3JJ0qS26868 Thu Apr 19 13:02:05 2001 -0700 Service (5.5.2653.19) "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Divine parts f3JJ0rS26873 I'm not sure how much of the list is interested in this stuff, but TheCeldimac was a later high end rod. The serial number on yours indicates itwas a VERY late model made in the mid 1930's. I'm at work right now so Idon't have an example to look at, but as I recall it has very modern,undecorated, unshouldered, serrated ferrules. They should be blackened. Aswith everything else, Divine had a rather strange technique for blackeningtheir ferrules. They plated the NS with a thin coat of copper, then treatedthe copper. I've never tried to duplicate it, but I'm sure someone on thelist will have an idea of how it's done. The big challenge is the ferrule'swelt, which is very distictive, and unlike any production ferrules currentlyavailable. You could probably have a replacement set made for $50 or $60. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: RE: Divine parts I have not seen the rod but it is a Celdimoc, serial number R8343 . It has been described to me via email. Looking at Sinclairs book pg 79 I think the seriated ferrules simular to that would do .---- Begin Original Message ---- ,"'Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'"Subject: RE: Divine parts Michael Sinclair owns the trademark, but his plans to revive the companyhave been shelved for a while. Goldenwitch has a very nice early styleDivine reproduction reelseat, but no one makes a ferrule that is even close.Also, Divine made about 8 different ferrules that I've been able to so it would depend on which one you want. If you're trying to match aferrule you'll probably need to have them made. Divine started usingPerfection tips and guides in the 1920's so rods of that vintage are easy tomatch. Earlier rods appear with just about every possible combination ofguides. Let me know if you want any more information. -----Original Message-----From: Rex Tutor Subject: Devine parts AS I recall someone here owns the Devine line, right ? Could that person please direct me to ferrules and general compnents costs . Asking a question for a friend.thanks Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com ---- End Original Message ---- Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Apr 19 16:04:34 2001 f3JL4WS02161 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Exel program for tapers?? Hi all,been last few weeks have been busy as .... I finally found some time tocollect my scattered thoughts and I'm starting to make myself a small EXelprogram toenter all my tapers into so I have easy access(they are piled everywhere andasscattered as my thoughts lately!) and can more readily share them whenasked(I know,I know there are still a couple of you I owe tapers to, I haven't forgotten, justbeen real busy).My boss at work is a real whiz at Exel (unlike me) and she has beenhelping mea bit.I was wondering if anyone out there has any neat ideas for me, I knowsome ofyou already use Exel for this,(as well as Joe's and various other programs),so I just wanted to pick your brains for ideas. I don't know whether I'm goingto putthe dimension graph or the Stress graph on my sheet yet but I do want toput thedimensions,info, guide spacing, ferrule size,...on it.I would love to see samples of what some of you are doing with Exel fortapers,feel free to send them, I don't mind mail,especially from other builders ;^) Thanks, Shawn from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Apr 19 17:16:21 2001 f3JMGKS04724 [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod I don't disagree about a heavier line handling the bushy flies better. Infact, this is my point. If faced with the choice of using a fast 7 weightor a slow 9 weight to throw a 2/0 dahlberg repeatedly at great distance, theslow 9 is the way to go. Granted, it will be heavier over a day's fishing,but you will false cast less (shooting more line each stroke). Obviously, arod can be too soft for most any purpose, but I guess everyone has theirownperception of rod actions. In the energy equation, mass goes in once, and velocity goes in twice(squared term). So generally, you would be willing to sacrifice a littlemass if you could gain significant speed (like in reloading....). But itdefinitely depends on how aerodynamic that something is. Casting mostsurface bugs is akin to shooting flu-flu arrows. You can get them to acertain speed (thus distance), and that's the maximum achievable, no matterhow high you string the bow. If you want more energy, you need to increasethe weight of the arrow. Carrying this over to casting, the wind resistanceof the the large frontal surface area requires momentum to cover a givendistance. The result of trying to achieve this momentum is that mostcasters (including me) end up hammering an under-weight rod, trying topunchout the speed. Tip caves in, and viola! Beautiful inverted loops. All IMHO -- TAM : ) -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod The terminal velocity issue is really a question of big hair bug versus lineweight. You can get a big hair bug moving faster with a 9 weight than witha 6 weight. BCheers, Alberta Al from bamboo@pa.net Thu Apr 19 17:17:37 2001 f3JMHaS04891 Subject: RE:Gherke rods Fellows the only rods that concerns me as to quality is the ones I'm =working on right now trying to make each one as close to perfection as =I'm cxapable at the time.Bill Fellows the only rods that concerns me= quality is the ones I'm working on right now trying to make each one as = perfection as I'm cxapable at the time.Bill from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Apr 19 18:53:22 2001 f3JNrKS07257 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Exel program for tapers?? Also,does anyone know the formula that I'm going to have to install in Exel tocalculate the stress values for the graph from the rod dimensions??Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi all,been last few weeks have been busy as .... I finally found some timetocollect my scattered thoughts and I'm starting to make myself a small EXelprogram toenter all my tapers into so I have easy access(they are piled everywhereand asscattered as my thoughts lately!) and can more readily share them whenasked(I know,I know there are still a couple of you I owe tapers to, I haven't forgotten,justbeen real busy).My boss at work is a real whiz at Exel (unlike me) and she has beenhelping mea bit.I was wondering if anyone out there has any neat ideas for me, I knowsome ofyou already use Exel for this,(as well as Joe's and various other programs),so I just wanted to pick your brains for ideas. I don't know whether I'mgoing to putthe dimension graph or the Stress graph on my sheet yet but I do want toput thedimensions,info, guide spacing, ferrule size,...on it.I would love to see samples of what some of you are doing with Exel fortapers,feel free to send them, I don't mind mail,especially from other builders ;^) Thanks, Shawn from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 19 19:05:12 2001 f3K05BS07681 Subject: Re: Divine parts In a message dated 4/19/01 12:02:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com writes: -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 9:21 AM Subject: Re: RE: Divine parts http://209.24.23.126/divine/ Don Burns In a message dated4/19/01 12:02:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Dean_Burrill@mcafee.com writes: -----OriginalMessage----- Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 9:21 AM 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu 'Subject: Re: RE: Divine parts http://209.24.23.126/divine/ Don Burns from timklein@qwest.net Fri Apr 20 00:12:05 2001 f3K5C4S13823 Subject: Re: Gerke Rods Bret, Did George put a time limit on how long you'd have this rod? If not, maybeyou could arrange to have it at the next rodmakers gathering. If you're notplanning to attend, I'm sure one of those who lives close to you might bewilling to take responsibility for the rod for a few days. I certainly trustthat you'll give the rod a fair appraisal, but it might be nice to hear someother opinions of the rod as well. Heck, if George is as proud of the rodsas he came off when I talked to him at the Denver FF show, he might evenmake the trip to the gathering himself if someone took the time to invitehim. My big gripe about all of the grousing on this list about George is that toomuch of it comes from a position of complete ignorance. Far too manypeoplecomplain about George having never laid an eye or hand on one of his rods.If you could arrange to get one into a few makers hands, I suspect a lot ofthe hubub would die down. He's really not competing in any way with most ofthe makers on this list, and when people see his rods, they'll realize that. I got a chance to talk to George at the Denver show and took a look at hisrods (I wrote up a rather long review of the show that should be in thearchives, if anyone's interested). George himself is a real character and Ibet he'd be a lot of fun to either dip a line or have a beer with. He's oneof those guys that would probably be a real hoot to be around as long as youdon't take him too seriously. He can get people's panties in a bunch in ahurry, which is a lot of fun to watch. As for his rods, well, they didn't really appeal to me much. As others whohave seen them have mentioned, they seemed a little garish or tacky to me.They've got some pretty nice hardware on them, but the nylon wrap colorsarea little bright and the flaming a bit harsh. With all due respect toGeorge's opinion that they are production rods in the Heddon or South Bendvein, I'd have to differ. I certainly wouldn't compare them to Heddon - South Bend maybe, but more like some of the last Shakespeares and otherrodsthat were found at the larger sporting goods stores. I hope I don't come offsounding like a snob, but I really had no interest in these rods and didn'tmake much of an effort to get back around to cast one. Sorry, but whenthereare as many toys as there were at the show and fine rods by people like JonParker to cast...well, George took a back seat. Personally, I think George might be better off lowering the componentquality, adding a rodsock and tube, and selling the things a little cheaper(closer to his original proposal). Of course, we all know what they sayabout opinions, and George certainly didn't ask for mine. I did talk to some friends whose opinion I respect, and they felt the rodscast OK. Not great - a little noodly maybe - but they all felt they couldcatch fish on them. When it comes right down to it, that's what a fishingrod is supposed to do. ---Tim from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Apr 20 04:22:44 2001 f3K9MhS17159 Subject: Re: Gerke Rods Folks,Not to single anyone out, in any way, but...... Can we PLEASE, PLEASE, Pretty Please stop with the Gherke Rodsdiscussion? Way too many folks are getting upset by this. The benefits of thisdiscussionare far outweighed by its detrimental effects. Let's please end it.... Thanks,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Apr 20 04:31:37 2001 f3K9VaS17388 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Gerke Rods I second that! My delete finger is getting very tired. (I guess I have to use itagain for this thread) Marty Harry Boyd wrote: Folks,Not to single anyone out, in any way, but...... Can we PLEASE, PLEASE, Pretty Please stop with the Gherke Rodsdiscussion? Way too many folks are getting upset by this. The benefits of thisdiscussionare far outweighed by its detrimental effects. Let's please end it.... Thanks,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Fri Apr 20 07:46:01 2001 f3KCk0S19628 Subject: Re: Gerke Rods Harry.Do you think that the Payne and Leonards got uptight when H.I., South Bend and others started building rods. I don't think they did nor should we. I've see George's work and I wasn't impressed. Best Hal. from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Fri Apr 20 09:41:05 2001 f3KEf4S24264 20 Apr 2001 10:40:35 -0400 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod Troy, Yep, we are in agreement here. Your comment about - "most casters (including me) end up hammering anunder-weight rod, trying to punch out the speed. Tip caves in, and viola!Beautiful inverted loops". Reminds of a trip of grayling heaven. We werecatching some real nice grayling in Northern Alberta. In fact, my laddy - Ned caught and released what would have been the Alberta record grayling.Anyway - there were 4 of us standing at the top of a pool when we sawsomereally nice bulltrout. Everyone standing there immediately started tying onthe big stuff - #2 Dog Nobblers, BOW River Buggers with 30 wraps of lead,and head slamming krystal flash Clousers to their lines. The largest rod atthe pool was a 5 weight. Needless to say, we had a nice show of beautifulopen loops and inverted loops! That was a great day of fishing. Cheers, Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod I don't disagree about a heavier line handling the bushy flies better. Infact, this is my point. If faced with the choice of using a fast 7 weightor a slow 9 weight to throw a 2/0 dahlberg repeatedly at great distance, theslow 9 is the way to go. Granted, it will be heavier over a day's fishing,but you will false cast less (shooting more line each stroke). Obviously, arod can be too soft for most any purpose, but I guess everyone has theirownperception of rod actions. In the energy equation, mass goes in once, and velocity goes in twice(squared term). So generally, you would be willing to sacrifice a littlemass if you could gain significant speed (like in reloading....). But itdefinitely depends on how aerodynamic that something is. Casting mostsurface bugs is akin to shooting flu-flu arrows. You can get them to acertain speed (thus distance), and that's the maximum achievable, no matterhow high you string the bow. If you want more energy, you need to increasethe weight of the arrow. Carrying this over to casting, the wind resistanceof the the large frontal surface area requires momentum to cover a givendistance. The result of trying to achieve this momentum is that mostcasters (including me) end up hammering an under-weight rod, trying topunchout the speed. Tip caves in, and viola! Beautiful inverted loops. All IMHO -- TAM : ) -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: bass rod vs. trout rod The terminal velocity issue is really a question of big hair bug versus lineweight. You can get a big hair bug moving faster with a 9 weight than witha 6 weight. BCheers, Alberta Al from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Apr 20 09:47:36 2001 f3KElaS24697 Subject: Paradise Lost /non rod building subject The subject here is not Gehrke rods.I don't think the thread has ever been about his rods. I think this is =about the loss of a smallgroup that just went national. It's funny you hereit through out the whole fly fishing community.About "how crowded their streams are", "fly fishing yuppies ", "remember =when", HeckI've caught my self saying it! LOL At the same time you hear alot about =teaching kids about flyfishing and how interest has declined. We want to keep our tradition =sacred but we don't want it to die. And that's a good thing. However the =world is constantly changing. For the good? Who knows. I am reminded of =my home waters of theMad River in Ohio (no secret now) When I first started fishing it, most =people had never even heard of it and people would even stop and ask me ="are there trout in there?". I was reluctant to say yes, but then I =might of gotten hauled off in a straight jacket for fly fishing in a =drainage ditch. Especially in Ohio! Then came the two articles in fly =fishing magazines along with a new fly shop that following year. I now =find myself fighting for position on a very small stream that I used to =have all to myself as recently as 8 yrs ago.It's funny. I thought the little stream could barelymanage the fishing pressure I gave it eight years ago. But I was wrong , =It is still there and thriving. Maybe a little less pristine but never =the less still a great stream. As new list members arrive views will =change, but like the little streamit will still remain A great place to go to.Tony Miller The subject here is not rods.I don'tthink the thread has = smallgroup that just went national.= you hereit through out the whole fly = community.About "how crowded their = HeckI've caught my self saying it!= fishing and how interest has= that's a good thing. However the world is constantly changing. For the = Mad River in Ohio (no secret= first started fishing it, most people had never even heard of it and = would even stop and ask me "are there trout in there?". I was reluctant = yes, but then I might of gotten hauled off in a straight jacket for fly = shop that following year. I now find myself fighting for position on a = ago.It's funny. I thought the = could barelymanage the fishing pressure I= years ago. But I was wrong , It is still there and thriving. Maybe a = pristine but never the less still a great stream. As new list members = views will change, but like the little streamit will still remain A great = to.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Apr 20 11:11:27 2001 f3KGBQS28046 Subject: Re: Paradise Lost /non rod building subject --=====================_517421==_.ALT You couldn't have been the only fly fisher fishing the Mad River eight yearsago. I have been fly fishing that ditch regularly (when there are no betterwaters available) for at least 120 years now. I have always found itsomewhatcrowded, but mostly by spin/bait fishers and perhaps not fly fishers.J. Snider At 10:47 AM 04/20/2001 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: The subject here is not Gehrke rods.I don't think the thread has ever been about his rods. I think this is aboutthe loss of a smallgroup that just went national. It's funny you hereit through out the whole fly fishing community.About "how crowded their streams are", "fly fishing yuppies ", "rememberwhen", HeckI've caught my self saying it! LOL At the same time you hear alot aboutteaching kids about flyfishing and how interest has declined. We want to keep our tradition sacredbut we don't want it to die. And that's a good thing. However the world isconstantly changing. For the good? Who knows. I am reminded of my homewatersof theMad River in Ohio (no secret now) When I first started fishing it, mostpeople had never even heard of it and people would even stop and ask me"arethere trout in there?". I was reluctant to say yes, but then I might ofgotten hauled off in a straight jacket for fly fishing in a drainage ditch.Especially in Ohio! Then came the two articles in fly fishing magazines alongwith a new fly shop that following year. I now find myself fighting forposition on a very small stream that I used to have all to myself asrecentlyas 8 yrs ago.It's funny. I thought the little stream could barelymanage the fishing pressure I gave it eight years ago. But I was wrong , Itis still there and thriving. Maybe a little less pristine but never the lessstill a great stream. As new list members arrive views will change, but likethe little streamit will still remain A great place to go to.Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --=====================_517421==_.ALT You couldn't have been the only fly fisher fishing the Mad River eightyears ago. I have been fly fishing that ditch regularly (when there areno better waters available) for at least 120 years now. I have alwaysfound it somewhat crowded, but mostly by spin/bait fishers and perhapsnot fly fishers.J. Snider At 10:47 AM 04/20/2001 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: The subject here is not Gehrkerods.I don't think the thread has ever been about his rods. I think this isabout the loss of a smallgroup that just went national. It's funny you hereit through out the whole fly fishing community.About "how crowded their streams are", "fly fishingyuppies ", "remember when",HeckI've caught my self saying it! LOL At the same time you hear alot aboutteaching kids about flyfishing and how interest has declined. We want to keep our traditionsacred but we don't want it to die. And that's a good thing. However theworld is constantly changing. For the good? Who knows. I am reminded ofmy home waters of theMad River in Ohio (no secret now) When I first started fishing it, mostpeople had never even heard of it and people would even stop and ask me"are there trout in there?". I was reluctant to say yes, butthen I might of gotten hauled off in a straight jacket for fly fishing ina drainage ditch. Especially in Ohio! Then came the twoarticles in fly fishing magazines along with a new fly shop thatfollowing year. I now find myself fighting for position on a very smallstream that I used to have all to myself as recently as 8 yrsago.It's funny. I thought the little stream could barelymanage the fishing pressure I gave it eight years ago. But I was wrong ,It is still there and thriving. Maybe a little less pristine but neverthe less still a great stream. As new list members arrive views willchange, but like the little streamit will still remain A great place to go to.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --=====================_517421==_.ALT-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Apr 20 11:17:47 2001 f3KGHkS28532 Subject: Re: Paradise Lost Hi JerryI swear it , I never seen anybody for the first three years. LOL Not =even Bait fisherman. ha,ha,haTony Miller Hi JerryI swear it , I never seen = first three years. LOL Not even Bait fisherman. ha,ha,haTony =Miller from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 20 17:52:06 2001 f3KMq5S11146 +0000 Subject: Address Does anyone have an E-mail address for Russ Gooding? Jack from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 20 18:20:01 2001 f3KNK0S11805 QAA05470; Subject: Re: Address Here it is, info@goldenwitch.com or gwti@desupernet.net . The web site iswww.goldenwitch.com Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Address Does anyone have an E-mail address for Russ Gooding? Jack from canazon@mindspring.com Fri Apr 20 20:39:58 2001 f3L1dvS13936 Subject: re:form tuneup i am very curious to know how you made out with your form tuneup. i =need to tune mine up and would like to know how you adjusted the forms =to file them down harry, = made out with your form tuneup. i need to tune mine up and would like to = how you adjusted the forms to file them down mike from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Fri Apr 20 20:44:50 2001 f3L1imS14154 Apr 2001 21:44:43 -0400 Subject: Milward binder tension Hi everyone:I am wondering what those of you who use the 4 string style binder measure out the tension for butts and tips at. Is 4 oz. for tips and 8 for butt sections about right? I have wrapped up a few test (no glue) butt sections with my new device, but I wonder if I would have better results with more tension. I am setting the tension with a spring scale, but I know many are using weights and other tests. I would appreciate any input. Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 20 20:54:28 2001 f3L1sRS14430 SAA14909; Subject: Re: Gerke Rods The end is near,I am interested what the reviewers have to say. After the review I think aquestion and answer period is inevitable. Answers are good. Ignorance Bad. Ithink George wants his day in court. Lets hang in there a little longer somesubjects are hard to deal with but by avoiding them thoughts remain thesame. If GG rods is what he claims good for him, if not then we will know that thelast word has been said. Untill then the mystery continues. Smile and be happy Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Gerke Rods Folks,Not to single anyone out, in any way, but...... Can we PLEASE, PLEASE, Pretty Please stop with the Gherke Rodsdiscussion? Way too many folks are getting upset by this. The benefits of thisdiscussionare far outweighed by its detrimental effects. Let's please end it.... Thanks,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from cadams46@juno.com Fri Apr 20 21:21:35 2001 f3L2LYS15006 22:21:25 EDT Subject: Aluminum Ferrules Just recieved a set of aluminum ferrules today from Brad Love. I mean totell you guys he does great work. The ferrules are perfect. Small, lightweight, and a fair price. No personal interest, just delighted with theproduct. from cdn@ticon.net Fri Apr 20 21:57:10 2001 f3L2vAS15636 Subject: milward binder tension Hi Bob,I use a 1.5 pound weight on my 4 spoolbinder to set tension.I use that setting Regards,Ned from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Apr 20 22:10:52 2001 f3L3ApS16029 WAA05769 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 Subject: Re: Milward binder tension Bob, I just set my tension by feel, then test with a old fiberglass rod tipso I don't get any roll or flop as the blank goes through. In otherwords so all threads are the same. I'm sure its at least 8 oz, though. Then for tips I only use 2 of the 4 threads. Bob Milward should get some sort of award for inventing this contraption.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi everyone:I am wondering what those of you who use the 4 string style bindermeasure out the tension for butts and tips at. Is 4 oz. for tips and 8 for butt sections about right? I have wrapped up a few test (no glue) butt sections with my new device, but I wonder if I would have better results with more tension. I am setting the tension with a spring scale, but I know many are using weights and other tests. I would appreciate any input. Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Apr 20 23:17:33 2001 f3L4HVS17243 Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:16:51 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: bass rod vs. trout rod Hi,Seems to me that the Payne Canadian Canoe would be an idealcandidate?? Shawn Darin J Law wrote: I have only been fishing for bass a couple times and don't know muchabout it. Yet, I am curious what the difference between a bass rod and atrout rod is? Is the bass rod simply a stronger rod for throwing largebugs into the water? Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Apr 21 01:00:09 2001 f3L608S18584 XAA05708; Subject: Re: Paradise Lost /non rod building subject Having been a flyfisherman for 25 years I have found myself mumbling ="more yuppies, damn movie". And yet there is good and bad in what has =happened to flyfishing over the last decade. Bad; less room and over =crowding, Good; it forces me to look for more water I would not =otherwise. Bad; more fishermen, Good; more people caring about =conservation, better tackle, better prices. Only today with the current =trend do we have a choice of so many great reels and rods. While =flyfishing is a trend for some it is a lifestyle to many of us and every =intricate facet is a world unto it self ie. Bamboo rod making. While =discussing fly tying methods or 100 foot cast no longer get me excited =as they once did, bamboo flyrods are new for me and have a level of =intricasy not found in any other level of flyfishing. Discussion here =while old hat for some are new to others. The list reminds me of a big =convention where many groups are discussing topics all at once. The =beauty is you can pick what topic is of interest and ignore those which =are not. Adam Vigil Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:47 AMSubject: Paradise Lost /non rod building subject The subject here is not Gehrke rods.I don't think the thread has ever been about his rods. I think this is =about the loss of a smallgroup that just went national. It's funny you hereit through out the whole fly fishing community.About "how crowded their streams are", "fly fishing yuppies ", ="remember when", HeckI've caught my self saying it! LOL At the same time you hear alot =about teaching kids about flyfishing and how interest has declined. We want to keep our tradition =sacred but we don't want it to die. And that's a good thing. However the =world is constantly changing. For the good? Who knows. I am reminded of =my home waters of theMad River in Ohio (no secret now) When I first started fishing it, =most people had never even heard of it and people would even stop and =ask me "are there trout in there?". I was reluctant to say yes, but then =I might of gotten hauled off in a straight jacket for fly fishing in a =drainage ditch. Especially in Ohio! Then came the two articles in fly =fishing magazines along with a new fly shop that following year. I now =find myself fighting for position on a very small stream that I used to =have all to myself as recently as 8 yrs ago.It's funny. I thought the little stream could barelymanage the fishing pressure I gave it eight years ago. But I was wrong =, It is still there and thriving. Maybe a little less pristine but never =the less still a great stream. As new list members arrive views will =change, but like the little streamit will still remain A great place to go to.Tony Miller Having been a flyfisherman for 25years = bad in what has happened to flyfishing over the last decade. Bad; less = over crowding, Good; it forces me to look for more water I would not = Bad; more fishermen, Good; more people caring about conservation, better = better prices. Only today with the current trend do we have a choice of = great reels and rods. While flyfishing is a trend for some it is a = many of us and every intricate facet is a world unto it self ie. Bamboo = me excited as they once did, bamboo flyrods are new for me and have a = convention where many groups are discussing topics all at once. The = not. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 = AMSubject: Paradise Lost /non rod= subject The subject here is not = rods.I don't think the thread has= smallgroup that just went = you hereit through out the whole fly= community.About "how crowded their = when", HeckI've caught my self saying = flyfishing and how interest has= that's a good thing. However the world is constantly changing. For the = theMad River in Ohio (no secret= first started fishing it, most people had never even heard of it and = would even stop and ask me "are there trout in there?". I was = yes, but then I might of gotten hauled off in a straight jacket for = along with a new fly shop that following year. I now find myself = position on a very small stream that I used to have all to myself as = as 8 yrs ago.It's funny. I thought the = could barelymanage the fishingpressure I = eight years ago. But I was wrong , It is still there and thriving. = little less pristine but never the less still a great stream. As new = members arrive views will change, but like the little =streamit will still remain A great = to.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Apr 21 05:13:32 2001 f3LADUS20523 f3LAD7089817; Subject: Re: Southbend #24 Troy This beer is so bad that once someone left some in a glass in my veterinaryhospital, and we euthanased thirty-seven tom cats for kidney failure beforewe realised it was Fosters! :-) Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Southbend #24 Jeez, I've never tasted the stuff. Is it really that bad? TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 07:04 AM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re:Southbend #24 Jacques Nah! If it was Foster's nobody would have bothered to cart away anybottlesat all, let alone 400! In fact, local legend has it that they actually PUMP the bloody stuffstaright out of the Tweed River into the bottles; they probably got sprungdoing it, and invented the whole truck thing as a cover story. It seems to me that if a truck actually did crash 24K bottles into theTweed, there would be a 10-day traffic jam while locals took advantage ofthe smokescreen to dump about another squillion bottles they had lyingaround their sheds and couldn't work out what to do with! Peter ----- Original Message -----From: Jacques Follweiler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:38 AMSubject: Re:Southbend #24 This has nothing to do with the Southbend #24 however I see in the USATodaywhere 24,000 bottles of beer on a truck ended up in the Tweed River northofSydney. One man reportedly carrying off 400 bottles. I wonder if it wasFoster beer?? Sure wish I were somewhere near the site.Jack from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Apr 21 06:55:06 2001 f3LBt5S21116 Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:54:26 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Paradise Lost /non rod building subject --------------FF3E09A2255E0C79064F6001 Guys,I feel for you, honest I do! Come visit me in Nova Scotia, there are tonsofplaces to fish undisturbed here, one of them behind my house) the brookiesmay smallin most streams(there are still some monsters) but they are numerous andthe fishingis tranquil. The only REAL over population of fisherman is during shad season,buteven that is tolerable.I bet there are still streams here that haven't seen a fisherman!Shawn Adam Vigil wrote: Having been a flyfisherman for 25 years I have found myself mumbling"more yuppies,damn movie". And yet there is good and bad in what has happened toflyfishing overthe last decade. Bad; less room and over crowding, Good; it forces me tolook formore water I would not otherwise. Bad; more fishermen, Good; more peoplecaringabout conservation, better tackle, better prices. Only today with thecurrent trenddo we have a choice of so many great reels and rods. While flyfishing is atrend untoit self ie. Bamboo rod making. While discussing fly tying methods or 100foot castno longer get me excited as they once did, bamboo flyrods are new for meand have alevel of intricasy not found in any other level of flyfishing. Discussion herewhile old hat for some are new to others. The list reminds me of a bigconventionwhere many groups are discussing topics all at once. The beauty is you canpickwhat topic is of interest and ignore those which are not. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:47 AMSubject: Paradise Lost /non rod building subjectThe subject here is not Gehrke rods.I don't think the thread has everbeen about his rods. I think this is about the loss of a smallgroup thatjust went national. It's funny you hereit through out the whole flyfishing community.About "how crowded their streams are", "fly fishingyuppies ", "remember when", HeckI've caught my self saying it! LOL Atthesame time you hear alot about teaching kids about flyfishing and howinterest has declined. We want to keep our tradition sacred but wedon'twant it to die. And that's a good thing. However the world is constantlychanging. For the good? Who knows. I am reminded of my home watersoftheMad River in Ohio (no secret now) When I first started fishing it,most people had never even heard of it and people would even stop andaskme "are there trout in there?". I was reluctant to say yes, but then Imight of gotten hauled off in a straight jacket for fly fishing in adrainage ditch. Especially in Ohio! Then came the two articles in flyfishing magazines along with a new fly shop that following year. I nowfind myself fighting for position on a very small stream that I used tohave all to myself as recently as 8 yrs ago.It's funny. I thought thelittle stream could barelymanage the fishing pressure I gave it eightyears ago. But I was wrong , It is still there and thriving. Maybe alittle less pristine but never the less still a great stream. As new listmembers arrive views will change, but like the little streamit will stillremain A great place to go to.TonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --------------FF3E09A2255E0C79064F6001 Guys, honestI do! Come visit me in Nova Scotia, there are tons of places to fishundisturbedhere, one of them behind my house) the brookies may small in moststreams(thereare still some monsters) but they are numerous and the fishing is tranquil.The only REAL over population of fisherman is during shad season, but eventhat is tolerable. here that haven't seen a fisherman! ShawnAdam Vigil wrote: Havingbeen a flyfisherman for 25 years I have found myself mumbling "moreyuppies,damn movie". And yet there is good and bad in what has happened toflyfishingover the last decade. Bad; less room and over crowding, Good; it forcesme to look for more water I would not otherwise. Bad; more fishermen, Good;more people caring about conservation, better tackle, better prices. Onlytoday with the current trend do we have a choice of so many great reelsand rods. While flyfishing is a trend for some it is a lifestyle to manyof us and every intricate facet is a world unto it self ie. Bamboo rod get me excited as they once did, bamboo flyrods are new for me and havea level of intricasy not found in any other level of flyfishing. Discussionhere while old hat for some are new to others. The list reminds me of abig convention where many groups are discussing topics all at once. Thebeauty is you can pick what topic is of interest and ignore those which Vigil ----- Original Message ----- From:TonyMiller Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:47AM Subject: Paradise Lost /non rodbuildingsubject Gehrkerods.I don't thinkthe thread has ever been about his rods. I think this is about the lossof a smallgroupthatjust went national. It's funny you hereitthrough out the whole fly fishing community.About"how crowded their streams are", "fly fishing yuppies ","remember when", HeckI'vecaught my self saying it! LOL At the same time you hear alot about teachingkids about flyfishingand how interest has declined. We want to keep our tradition sacred butwe don't want it to die. And that's a good thing. However the world isconstantly changing. For the good? Who knows. I am reminded of my homewaters of theMad Riverin Ohio (no secret now) When I first started fishing it, most people hadnever even heard of it and people would even stop and ask me "are theretrout in there?". I was reluctant to say yes, but then I might of gottenhauled off in a straight jacket for fly fishing in a drainage ditch. Especiallyin Ohio! Thencamethe two articles in fly fishing magazines along with a new fly shop thatfollowing year. I now find myself fighting for position on a very smallstream that I used to have all to myself as recently as 8 yrsago.It'sfunny. I thought the little stream could barelymanagethe fishing pressure I gave it eight years ago. But I was wrong , It isstill there and thriving. Maybe a little less pristine but never the lessstill a great stream. As new list members arrive views will change, butlike the little streamitwill still remain A great place to go to.TonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --------------FF3E09A2255E0C79064F6001-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Apr 21 07:58:54 2001 f3LCwrS21519 Subject: Re: Paradise Regained? ArialHaving been aflyfisherman for 25 years I have found myself mumbling "more yuppies,damn movie". And yet there is good and bad in what has happened toflyfishing over the last decade. Bad; less room and over crowding, Good;it forces me to look for more water I would not otherwise. Bad; morefishermen, Good; more people caring about conservation, better tackle,better prices. Only today with the current trend do we have a choice ofso many great reels and rods. While flyfishing is a trend for some it isa lifestyle to many of us and every intricate facet is a world unto itself ie. Bamboo rod making. While discussing fly tying methods or 100foot cast no longer get me excited as they once did, bamboo flyrods arenew for me and have a level of intricasy not found in any other level offlyfishing. Discussion here while old hat for some are new to others. Thelist reminds me of a big convention where many groups are discussingtopics all at once. The beauty is you can pick what topic is of interestand ignore those which are not. ArialYe= I think that there is a wish that everyone shares; to return to a simplertime. Cane rods are an integral part of that wish for many. Recently Ifished on a local spring creek and all of the three fly fishers therewere fishing with cane. I asked their nearest fellow if he liked fishingwith cane and he replied -I've fished with this Leonard for 30 years andI am not about to change. The other was fishing a rod by a contemporarymaker who seemed to feel that fishing cane was its own reward and thatcatching fish was sort of a bonus. The casts required to fish the midgelarva patterns were only 10 to 15 ft.and you could probably execute the counts. Of course, esthetics and history are not the only factors which makepeople choose to fish cane rods to some of us they do not just lookright, they feel right. Honest work on the part of the maker imbues a rodwith character. Emphasizing price (or looks) over character may be a -Doug Doug Easton Tonawanda, NY from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Apr 21 08:49:14 2001 f3LDnDS21839 GAA07904; Subject: Re: Paradise Lost /non rod building subject Shawn, Nova Scotia!? I feel like Charlie when Willie Wonka invited him into the =chocolate factory! Some day I may take you up on that. Thanks, AdamP.S. I feel for me to. Fly Fishing in Southern California is a said =state of affairs. Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 5:57 AMSubject: Re: Paradise Lost /non rod building subject I feel for you, honest I do! Come visit me in Nova Scotia, = Shawn, Nova Scotia!? I feel like Charlie when = that. Thanks, AdamP.S. I feel for me to. Fly Fishing in = California is a said state of affairs. ----- Original Message ----- Shawn Pineo Cc: flyfish@defnet.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: Paradise Lost /non = building subject feel = you, honest I do! Come visit me in Nova Scotia, there are tons of = fish undisturbed here, Shawn from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Apr 21 09:16:00 2001 f3LEFxS23057 Subject: Re: Paradise Regained Yes DougYes I feel that fishing cane somehow teleports me back in time. To A =time I can only try to imagine. I'm 35 so I did not even exist in thegolden age of fly fishing. So by fishing & building cane rods it makes =me feel like Iwas there and some how part of it all. I also just love the way cane =rods cast. That slow action!The slower the better. Never could get used tofast action graphites. They feel like casting a broom handle to me. =There is also that feeling of accomplishment in that I caught & released =those trout with a rod I built and a fly I tied. DougYes I feel that fishing cane = teleports me back in time. To A time I can only try to imagine. I'm 35 = not even exist in thegolden age of fly fishing. So = & building cane rods it makes me feel like Iwas there and some how partof = also just love the way cane rods cast. That slow action!The slower the better. Never= tofast action graphites. They = in that I caught & released those trout with a rod I built and a fly = tied.to quote John Gierach " just = day in paradise" Tony www.homestead.com/= from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Apr 21 15:19:08 2001 f3LKJ8S27974 Subject: Re: Paradise Regained Yes In a message dated 4/21/01 9:16:40 AM Central Daylight Time, flyfish@defnet.com writes: Ah! Funny, I am 47 and never got interested in fly fishing until last year. But to me THIS is the "golden age" of fly fishing. Not to really disagree with Tony, who is a likable guy after all (I hope!) But look at what we have now. There are more fly rods of every concevable material from glass to graphite to boron to titanium to the good old reliable standby cane. Even the cane rods are now being produced in higher quality than ever in the past. Very few "store rods" are cane these days that is true, but would you want that? Today I can go to the store and buy a decent fly outfit for under $100 that will work and work well enough for a beginner to learn on. (Scientific Anglers entire setup for about $60 which is where I started out) Good flies are available at local fly shops and over the net at reasonable prices and in good quality, Also there are countless books, magazines, articles, video tapes and other resources to teach the beginner all he needs to know. No longer is it the mysterious and arcane craft of yore.Yes, I really would like to return to simpler times and fewer people and more fish too, but as for me, the good old days are NOW. A good part ofthat is because of all of you on the web too. Thanks to you I have friends literally world wide who share my interest in fly fishing (and other things as well) How fantastic is that! found friends in the future. I hope to meet some of you! Tony, I should be arriving in Springfield on Friday about 5 I hope, I will give you a call!mark from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Apr 21 16:04:36 2001 f3LL4ZS28891 2001 14:04:38 PDT Subject: Re: Paradise Regained Yes ah, yes! ...and then there were gut leaders,vulcanized canvis waders, schnelled flies, whtgasoline and paraphin floatant...that was trulyparadise! yep! yep! yep! it's as true as i'm standinghere. timothy golden age of fly fishing. So by fishing & buildingcane rods it makes me feel like Iwas there and some how part of it all. I also justlove the way cane rods cast. That slow action! >> ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe http://auctions.yahoo.com/ from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Apr 21 19:27:30 2001 f3M0RSS01976 Apr 2001 20:26:59 -0400 Subject: Building your own nets Someone had mentioned building their own nets. Here is a good link for how to. I am sorry if someone may have already dug this up.http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/canada/can33.html Best regards, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from piscator@macatawa.org Sat Apr 21 19:48:15 2001 f3M0mES02393 Subject: Re: Building your own nets Bob, Thanks. I'm thinkin' about makin' a net for the Southern rodmakersgatherin. It'd be shaped like those chrome girls on the 18 wheelers'mud-flaps. Mebbe I should make a steelhead and salmon net, sorta the DollyParton version? 8^) Brian (That should jump start the list from it's doldrums.) from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Apr 21 20:22:05 2001 f3M1M4S03077 Sat, 21 Apr 2001 18:22:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Building your own nets Brian,Oh yeah, that'd be great! I'll bid high on that one. You'll wind upcostin' me some money. If not my job and my wife!! Big grins,Harry PS If you see Charlie Curro, tell him "thanks" for me. He put me on a nicephone call last week... Brian Creek wrote: Thanks. I'm thinkin' about makin' a net for the Southern rodmakersgatherin. It'd be shaped like those chrome girls on the 18 wheelers'mud-flaps. Mebbe I should make a steelhead and salmon net, sorta theDollyParton version? 8^) --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from cadams46@juno.com Sat Apr 21 20:29:56 2001 f3M1TtS03403 21:29:43 EDT Subject: Oven Fan I am looking to add a fan to the heat treating oven I built a few monthsback. I've been having a really hard time coming up with a suitableunit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from robert.kope@prodigy.net Sat Apr 21 22:03:06 2001 f3M336S05049 f3M32ti108850;Sat, 21 Apr 2001 23:02:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Oven Fan Use a heat gun. - Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Oven Fan I am looking to add a fan to the heat treating oven I built a few monthsback. I've been having a really hard time coming up with a suitableunit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Apr 21 23:09:19 2001 f3M49IS06091 VAA00373 Subject: fish scented floatant Beware of the floatant that you are using. One of the major brands is =reported to have "cod liver oil" for scent. If you are interested the =report was on rec.outdoor.flyfishing. It showed the patent and all the =details. I will not tell you what brand it is on the list because it may =upset people if I use a certain name. If you wish to know what brand if =you havent guessed you can contact me off the list. There is not a =single flyfisherman I know of that would knowing use "scent". In fact it =would be illegal in many waters. I thought this was important enough to =share. Adam Vigil = One of the major brands is reported to have "cod liver oil" for scent. = are interested the report was on rec.outdoor.flyfishing. It showed the = and all the details. I will not tell you what brand it is on the list = may upset people if I use a certain name. If you wish to know what brand = flyfisherman I know of that would knowing use "scent". In fact it would = share. AdamVigil from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Apr 21 23:16:54 2001 f3M4GrS06439 2001 21:16:48 PDT Subject: Re: Paradise Regained Yes mark, what you said is what i was saying. if we goback there, we have to take the good with the bad. i've fished with rubberised canvis waders, gut leadersand wht gas and parafin floatant. believe me it's thecomradery of those long gone i miss. the last of themdied this weekend. bob could lay out 80 ft of line ona shooting roll cast over still water with an 18'leader and tippet. most of the new pro's will tell youit can't be done. that was in the days when wecultivated skills instead of bought new equipment.high tech is no substitute for skills developed overyears in the show. spending the time in those watersis the only road home i know. timothy --- Lazybee45@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 4/21/01 4:05:22 PM CentralDaylight Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: paradise! yep! yep! yep! it's as true as i'mstandinghere. timothy >> Yup yup! i like to be nostalgic too really, butheck, we can really get crazy if we wnat to. Like Geirach said in one book(Rat Lake I think) "If we want to go back to the "old ways" then we shouldlive in a cave and stalk the fish with a club!" (no I don't mean a glassrod!)I like my modern convienences, I am building aflyrod from strips of Bamboo because I LIKE craftsmanship and like to makethings (as you well know!) But My graphite rods work pretty well. Idoubt that I will ever give them up! at least not entirely! I even have a nicelittle 4 wt Glass rod that I like. Heck it breaks down to 13 inches long!i can damn near put it in my pocket! (stick it down your pants leg andtell the airport security it is your pet weasel!)But hey, i like to have fun. The whole point ofthis is FUN after all. RIGHT???mark ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Apr 22 06:57:41 2001 f3MBveS10810 hme0.telusplanet.net Sun, 22 Apr 2001 05:57:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Oven Fan Hi, Depending on your oven configuration, a furnace exhaust fan will workgreat. The fan I got was from a house furnace that used a low energysystemwhere the exhaust fan only came on when the hot box reached a high enoughtemperature. It's a 120 volt squirrel cage fan that looks like about 350cfm. or so. It really hustles the air from one side of the oven to theother. I insulated the inlet & exhaust side and made sure that the motorhad a adequate room around it so that motor cooling fan could exhaust andkeep it cool. I've used it for the past 9 rods with success.The high air flow required a baffle in front of the fan 12" or so to reducethe lamination of the air flow. The best of all, the plumber gave it to me regards, Don At 07:35 PM 4/21/01 -0600, cadams46@juno.com wrote:I am looking to add a fan to the heat treating oven I built a few monthsback. I've been having a really hard time coming up with a suitableunit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.Sincerely,C.R. Adams from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Apr 22 08:45:44 2001 f3MDjhS11548 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: fish scented floatant Adam,I believe you are referring to a sinking compound (Xink).Does spit fall under the classification of "scent"? It probably should; if so, I am guilty of using scent.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Adam Vigil wrote: Beware of the floatant that you are using. One of the major brands is reported to have "cod liver oil" for scent. If you are interested the report was on rec.outdoor.flyfishing. It showed the patent and all the details. I will not tell you what brand it is on the list because it may upset people if I use a certain name. If you wish to know what brand if you havent guessed you can contact me off the list. There is not a single flyfisherman I know of that would knowing use "scent". In fact it would be illegal in many waters. I thought this was important enough to share. Adam Vigil -- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 22 09:20:49 2001 f3MEKmS11955 Subject: 8' to 8'6"s nymphing rod rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,Does anyone know of a good taper for a rod that would be good for midging/nymphingand using a strike indicator. I think something with maybe a stiffer butt and midsection with a tip section to protect light tippets. The person that wants this also wants it in a 5 wght.Bret from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Apr 22 12:43:23 2001 f3MHhMS14617 f3MHhjV05314 Subject: Try again. Got no messages for a week. Found I was bumped offthe list. Checking to see if I am back.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 13:04:52 2001 f3MI4pS15034 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: taper program Thank you everyone who sent me info on taper programs, I have decided tostick toa simple format. I almost have what I want a Excel spreadsheet that will allowme toenter the rod info and when I put in the dimensions it will plot me a simplegraph of those dimensions. This will accomplish what I want it to, get my tapersorganized and into my computer so I can share them easily. I will put the guide spacings andferrule size in as well if I have them. I will be keeping the colors to a minimumfor ease of printing.Some of you guys have some incredible programs, kudos! Once againthanks for thehelp!Shawn from ddeloach@pcisys.net Sun Apr 22 13:40:54 2001 f3MIerS15735 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: 8' to 8'6"s nymphing rod Para-15 ----- Original Message ----- Subject: 8' to 8'6"s nymphing rod List,Does anyone know of a good taper for a rod that would be good formidging/nymphingand using a strike indicator. I think something with maybe a stiffer buttand midsection with a tip section to protect light tippets. The personthatwants this also wants it in a 5 wght.Bret from robert.kope@prodigy.net Sun Apr 22 19:06:02 2001 f3N061S20774 f3N05xx67634 Subject: resorcinol shelf life List, I am preparing to glue up a rod with resorcinol, but my resin is about 3 =years old, and hasn't been used in nearly 2 years. Is there some way to =tell if the resin is still good or should I just chuck it and buy some =new? -- Robert Kope List, What's the shelf life of = I am preparing to glue up a rod with = but my resin is about 3 years old, and hasn't been used in nearly 2 = Is there some way to tell if the resin is still good or should I just = and buy some new? -- Robert =Kope from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Apr 22 19:26:57 2001 f3N0QuS21412 2001 17:26:59 PDT ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from jczimny@dol.net Sun Apr 22 20:17:44 2001 f3N1HhS22308 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: resorcinol shelf life --------------4C1FF4BA387AB73F3D3B2030 If the resin is not lumpy, then it should be OK. Try a small amount as atrial batch. If it kicks in a reasonalble time and hardens well then itwill be OK to use.John Z Robert Kope wrote: List, What's the shelf life of resorcinol? I am preparing to glue up arod with resorcinol, but my resin is about 3 years old, and hasn'tbeen used in nearly 2 years. Is there some way to tell if the resinis still good or should I just chuck it and buy some new? -- RobertKope --------------4C1FF4BA387AB73F3D3B2030 If the resin is not lumpy, then it should be OK. Try a small amount asa trial batch. If it kicks in a reasonalble time and hardens well thenit will be OK to use.John ZRobert Kope wrote: am preparing to glue up a rod with resorcinol, but my resin is about 3 way to tell if the resin is still good or should I just chuck it and buy RobertKope --------------4C1FF4BA387AB73F3D3B2030-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Apr 22 20:26:04 2001 f3N1Q3S22616 2001 18:26:06 PDT Subject: Re: resorcinol shelf life i used some out of date resorcinol and it through offmy finished specs. as it gets older it takes up moreroom. i was chasing my tail for a while trying tofigure out what was going on. new batch solved theproblem. also the new batch was brown not the usualpurple. russ at goldenwitch talked to borden and wastold the formulation had been changed to meet the newunited nations guide lines. bordens said that the glueshould be the same in the using of it. it is just lesspurple. timothy --- "J. C. Zimny" wrote:If the resin is not lumpy, then it should be OK. Trya small amount as atrial batch. If it kicks in a reasonalble time andhardens well then itwill be OK to use.John Z Robert Kope wrote: List, What's the shelf life of resorcinol? I ampreparing to glue up arod with resorcinol, but my resin is about 3 yearsold, and hasn'tbeen used in nearly 2 years. Is there some way totell if the resinis still good or should I just chuck it and buysome new? -- RobertKope ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 23 00:55:12 2001 f3N5tAS26978 Subject: Re: resorcinol shelf life Robert,resorcinol does have a shelf life so do test it since it's that old. All youneed to do is glue a couple of sticks about an inch wide and 5-6 inches longend to end for about an inch. Let the glue cure then put one ond in a vise andbreak them. If the join breaks at the glue line deep six the glue. If the woodbreaks or it breaks at the glue line but there seems to be equal amounts ofbith sticks in the break it's ok. Tony At 05:07 PM 4/22/01 -0700, Robert Kope wrote: List, What's the shelf life of resorcinol? I am preparing to glue up a rod with resorcinol, but my resin is about 3years old, and hasn't been used in nearly 2 years. Is there some way totellif the resin is still good or should I just chuck it and buy some new? -- Robert Kope /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Apr 23 01:20:03 2001 f3N6K1S27843 Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:20:03 +0100 Subject: Re: resorcinol shelf life I have just used some that was ......three years old........and it hasworked just fine..... Paul Robert Kope wrote: List, What's the shelf life of resorcinol? I am preparing to glue up a rod with resorcinol, but my resin is about3 years old, and hasn't been used in nearly 2 years. Is there someway to tell if the resin is still good or should I just chuck it andbuy some new? -- Robert Kope from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Apr 23 01:37:09 2001 f3N6b9S28247 Sun, 22 Apr 2001 23:37:07 -0700 Mon, 23 Apr 2001 06:37:07 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: 8' to 8'6"s nymphing rod FILETIME=[D1117C30:01C0CBBF] The key to a nymph rod is in the tip, a weak tip won't transfer enough power down into the rod to handle sinking lines and weighted stuff. A hinge in the butt slows the rod down so it will throw an open loop that weighted nymphs and steelhead flies like to preserve the integrity of your ear :) I used to make alot of steelhead and lake rods in the early and mid eighties until the 'toy' rod craze fouled things up. Thankfuly the trend seems to be going back to 'work' rods. A para 15 works well for lake fishing but as insiders I think that we can forget that para rods are difficult for many to time properly. I like them myself but but I build them only for my dealers that understand them. The 87Px listed in the Rodmakers website is a 5Dt rod NOT a 7wt and the Px tapers were designed to do exactly what you are asking for. I also have an 8 1/2 ft if you need that one. I like to build the 8 1/2 rods as a three pc though.A.J. From: Grhghlndr@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: 8' to 8'6"s nymphing rodDate: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 10:20:29 EDT List,Does anyone know of a good taper for a rod that would be good formidging/nymphingand using a strike indicator. I think something with maybe a stiffer buttand midsection with a tip section to protect light tippets. The person thatwants this also wants it in a 5 wght.Bret _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Apr 23 08:27:38 2001 f3NDRbS03545 GAA14927 GAA22218 (5.5.2650.21) "'stetzer@csd.uwm.edu'" Subject: RE: Milward binder tension bob didn't invent it, it was developed by Dawn Holbrook a rod maker, here inSeattle, that made rods in the 40's, 50's and 60's. He belong to a fly fishingclub and in the sixties he taught members how to build their own rod . For$25.00 he made you a wood planing form, supplied the pre embargo cane andsupplied the binder and work shop. I mistakenly sent his book to the list andhosed up peoples computers for a hour or two. He taught D. Whitehead andquite a few others, me included, how to make rods. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:10 PM Subject: Re: Milward binder tension Bob, I just set my tension by feel, then test with a old fiberglass rod tipso I don't get any roll or flop as the blank goes through. In otherwords so all threads are the same. I'm sure its at least 8 oz, though. Then for tips I only use 2 of the 4 threads. Bob Milward should get some sort of award for inventing this contraption.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi everyone:I am wondering what those of you who use the 4 string style bindermeasure out the tension for butts and tips at. Is 4 oz. for tips and 8 for butt sections about right? I have wrapped up a few test (no glue) buttsections with my new device, but I wonder if I would have better results with more tension. I am setting the tension with a spring scale, but I know many are using weights and other tests. I would appreciate any input. Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from dati@selway.umt.edu Mon Apr 23 12:33:12 2001 f3NHXBS15454 Subject: trade I recently posted a message about a South Bend #24 9.5' flyrod and adiscussion developed on the difference between a bass rod and a troutrod. I don't bass fish and would like to trade the larger rod for ashorter rod. I fish mainly for trout in and around Missoula, MT. I hopethis is not against the rules of the list. Thanks and please e-mail me off list if interested. Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 23 16:58:02 2001 f3NLw1S27198 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:58:01 -0500 Subject: Test... Delete... R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from darrell@rockclimbing.org Mon Apr 23 19:02:37 2001 f3O02aS00495 sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) Subject: Edwards Quad 54-8721 Any Edwards Quadheads out there that can enlighten me about the Quads? I have a #54-8721 quad which is a 8.5' 3/2 rod. Feels like about a 6wt fromwiggling it... What is the difference between a #53 and a #54? Is the 8721 a serial number or a rod code... Thanks, Darrell from Canerods@aol.com Mon Apr 23 19:45:30 2001 f3O0jTS01391 Subject: Re: Bizarre doodad on ebay... A H-I Bamboo Splitter In a message dated 4/12/01 3:47:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, darrell@rockclimbing.org writes: Anybody know how this thing a ma jig works? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131844730 I can't figure it out... No financial interest... just curious... Darrellwww.vfish.net Darrell, Looks like a crank for a machine to me. Might be "part" of a splitter. I doubt if the seller know what it really is. dgb In a message dated4/12/01 3:47:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, darrell@rockclimbing.org writes: Anybody know how this thing a ma jig works? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1131844730 I can't figure it out... No financial interest... just curious... Darrellwww.vfish.net Darrell, Looks like a crank for a machine to me. Might be "part" of a splitter. I doubt if the seller know what it really is. dgb from bob@downandacross.com Mon Apr 23 20:09:44 2001 f3O19hS01976 Subject: Re: Edwards Quad 54-8721 My guess is that it denotes a light and heavy version. But none of my resources say. Here is an interesting link on Edward's models (although it does not say much about your question).The two 8'6" Edwards tapers I have are very distinct. One swells to about .375 in the butt and the other to .430+ (Estimated under the grip). The #53 (owned by Steve from MO) is the lighter of the two I have, and the heavier one I don't have info on the model but assume it could be a #54. The #53 is outfitted as such "The rod has a bakelite reel seat and square bakelite winding check. Garnet wraps tipped in black (appear to be 8-10 tip wraps)." If your #54 is different, it could be the fittings?Wish I owned some, but the tapers are okay for now.Best regards,Bob At 05:01 PM 4/23/2001 -0700, you wrote:Any Edwards Quadheads out there that can enlighten me about the Quads? I have a #54-8721 quad which is a 8.5' 3/2 rod. Feels like about a 6wt fromwiggling it... What is the difference between a #53 and a #54? Is the 8721 a serial number or a rod code... Thanks, Darrell from canazon@mindspring.com Mon Apr 23 20:51:04 2001 f3O1p1S03164 Subject: re: form tuneup, now " the bus" hey troy,you know this stuff is just so tough to get through the first =time. i mean, i've only been at this a year now, gathering information, =researching tapers, lines, silks, cork, binders, heat ovens, forms, =planes, how to sharpen planes. i've got my first rod planed out and i've =double and triple checked it and now i'm afraid to glue it up!and you ask me about "the bus"? this has been a great trip so far =and i'm barely out of the station. this bus stops pretty frequently, =takes all the side roads. i get to stretch my legs , take in the view. = i'm so nervous about glueing this thing up that i've built two =binders and started planing out my second rod. is that nuts or what.any way i'll be getting back on soon. i like the bus. and all the =towns we got to have lots of nice people. gettin ready to ride again! hey troy, this = just so tough to get through the first time. i mean, i've only been at = year now, gathering information, researching tapers, lines, silks, cork, = binders, heat ovens, forms, planes, how to sharpen planes. i've got my = planed out and i've double and triple checked it and now i'm afraid to = up! get to stretch my legs , take in the view. and take the time to build = tools for " the rod". = nuts or what. people. gettin ready to ride =again! from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Apr 23 21:02:14 2001 f3O22DS03510 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: form tuneup, now " the bus" Jeez, sorry, I was thinking something else entirely. I was thinking thatthe implication was that all this stuff is so expensive to gather together(and it never really stops costing.....) that you had to sell the car orsomething. Shows what a deep thinker I am. Sure hope I didn't offend :] TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: re: form tuneup, now " the bus" hey troy,you know this stuff is just so tough to get through the first time. imean, i've only been at this a year now, gathering information, researchingtapers, lines, silks, cork, binders, heat ovens, forms, planes, how tosharpen planes. i've got my first rod planed out and i've double and triplechecked it and now i'm afraid to glue it up!and you ask me about "the bus"? this has been a great trip so far andi'm barely out of the station. this bus stops pretty frequently, takes allthe side roads. i get to stretch my legs , take in the view. and take thetime to build some more tools for " the rod". i'm so nervous about glueing this thing up that i've built two bindersand started planing out my second rod. is that nuts or what.any way i'll be getting back on soon. i like the bus. and all the townswe got to have lots of nice people. mike gettin ready to ride again! from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Mon Apr 23 21:35:06 2001 f3O2Z5S04304 Apr 2001 22:34:35 -0400 Subject: Edward's link Sorry, forgot the link in my hasty post on the Edwards quads.http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/canecoun/Thomas.htm Bob Maulucci>In a message dated 4/24/1 2:48:00 AM, drinkr@voicenet.com writes: Dave - If anything, the opposite is true. The solid center adds a lot of weight, but also supports the outer diameter of the rod. Add a percent ortwo of thickness to the areas you hollow to maintain the same action in the rod, and you should stay fairly close. from CALucker@aol.com Mon Apr 23 23:52:52 2001 f3O4qpS07863 Subject: Re: Edwards Quad 54-8721 Darrel, you stated and asked: "I have a #54-8721 quad which is a 8.5' 3/2 rod. Feels like about a 6wt from wiggling it...What is the difference between a #53 and a #54?" I checked my files and I have only one Edwards catalog of an unknown year. In the catalog they have listed three 8 1/2 footers under the catagory of "Quadrate No. 50." Edwards used model numbers that reflected their list price. In my brochure, they have no rods under 8 feet and none over 9 1/2 feet. Knowing that the two 8 footers are models 50 and 51, the 8 1/2footers would be 52, 53 and 54. Model 52 is 8 1/2 feet and 4 3/4 ounces; 53 is 81/2 feet and 5 ounces; and 54 is 8 1/2 feet and 5 1/4 ounces. The catalog lists three 9 footers -- the lightest they call a "medium stiff rod"; the middle weight 9 footer they call a "stiff dry fly rod;" and the heaviest they call a "powerful bass action." Perhaps the same descriptions somewhat apply to the models 52, 53 and 54 with 53 being a stiff dry fly and 54 being a bass action rod?Hope that sheds some light on your question. BVu the way, I once had a Wright and McGill Quadrate, believe it or not. It was inked as "Model 350." It was an Edwards model 35 with an added zero. It was sold by Wright and Mcgill before they took control of Goodwin Granger. Chris Lucker from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 24 00:03:27 2001 f3O53OS08266 Subject: Re: Hollow Building In mast and spar making it's a rule of thumb you keep the wall thicknessaround 25% of it's width, less is dangerous, more is wasted weight. That's has hollow built has ever noticed what the ratio of width: thickness is? Tony At 11:25 PM 4/23/01 -0400, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/24/1 2:48:00 AM, drinkr@voicenet.com writes: Dave - If anything, the opposite is true. The solid center adds a lot of weight, but also supports the outer diameter of the rod. Add a percent ortwo of thickness to the areas you hollow to maintain the same action in the rod, and you should stay fairly close. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A man who works with his hands is a laborer.A man who works with his hands and brain is a craftsman.A man who works with his hands and brain and heart is an artist. As required in accordance with new draconian Australian copy right laws Igive express permission for anybody so wishing to copy or forward this message. /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Apr 24 06:00:08 2001 f3OB06S12824 f3OB02010456; Subject: Re: form tuneup, now " the bus" Mike Just glue it, and damn the torpedoes! I not only put it off and put it off, but still do; sort of feel that =there is an irrevocable sort of committment when you actually spread on =the glue. But you know, it's not as fraught as the final planing, nor as exacting =as the fitting of the furnishings to the rod. And as long as you (a) get =all the crap off the planed surfaces (My wife donated one of those =really soft and fine brushes that women, and some men too for all I =know, use for putting on makeup. As a final cleanup brush, it's =fantastic) (b) use a glue that gives enough working time to get it all =done without rushing and (c) don't get all excited and get your strips =out of sequence (ask me how I know that) then you don't get too far out =of your depth. I am currently on rod #16, and I haven't yet stuffed one up in the =gluing phase, save only for the lovely little 6'3" 3-weight that I was =going to sell, but now am allowed to keep as I swapped two strips =inadvertently while re- rolling after gluing. Peter Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:50 PMSubject: re: form tuneup, now " the bus" hey troy,you know this stuff is just so tough to get through the first =time. i mean, i've only been at this a year now, gathering information, =researching tapers, lines, silks, cork, binders, heat ovens, forms, =planes, how to sharpen planes. i've got my first rod planed out and i've =double and triple checked it and now i'm afraid to glue it up!and you ask me about "the bus"? this has been a great trip so =far and i'm barely out of the station. this bus stops pretty frequently, =takes all the side roads. i get to stretch my legs , take in the view. = i'm so nervous about glueing this thing up that i've built two =binders and started planing out my second rod. is that nuts or what.any way i'll be getting back on soon. i like the bus. and all the =towns we got to have lots of nice people. gettin ready to ride again! Mike Just glue it, and damn the =torpedoes! = still do; sort of feel that there is an irrevocable sort of committment = actually spread on the glue. But you know, it's not as fraught as = planing, nor as exacting as the fitting of the furnishings to the rod. = long as you (a) get all the crap off the planed surfaces (My wife = those really soft and fine brushes that women, and some men too for all = use for putting on makeup. As a final cleanup brush, it's = use a glue that gives enough working time to get it all done without = (c) don't get all excited and get your strips out of sequence (ask me = that) then you don't get too far out of your depth. I am currently on rod #16, and I = stuffed one up in the gluing phase, save only for the lovely little 6'3" = 3-weight that I was going to sell, but now am allowed to keep as I = strips inadvertently while re-rolling after gluing. Peter ----- Original Message ----- canazon Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 = PMSubject: re: form tuneup, now " = bus" hey troy, this = just so tough to get through the first time. i mean, i've only been at = year now, gathering information, researching tapers, lines, silks, = binders, heat ovens, forms, planes, how to sharpen planes. i've got my = rod planed out and i've double and triple checked it and now i'm = glue it up! "the bus"? this has been a great trip so far and i'm barely out of the = build some more tools for " the rod". up that i've built two binders and started planing out my second = that nuts or what. people. again! from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 24 07:18:38 2001 f3OCIZS14538 Subject: re: the bus Damn the torpedoes, peter! thanks for the offer bret ( i was =actually hoping to get someone to hold my hand for the glueing) but i'm =in eastern ny and can't wait any longer. i'm going to glue the rod up =tommorrow morn at the latest. i put the sections in a pvc tube with =dessicant, which got all over the sections. should i wash them down =with water or something else before glueing?and troy, your logic was right on. if you bought all your tools you =might have to sell your kids, not the car. someone posted to the list a =while back asking should they buy or build tools. i compared the initial =rodmaking experience to getting one chance to travel across america. =would you want to fly a jetliner ( buy your tools), or take the bus = i have since revisited that logic. i believe you can take the jet = mike c all, hold my hand for the glueing) but i'm in eastern ny and can't wait any = i'm going to glue the rod up tommorrow morn at the latest. i put the = them down with water or something else before glueing? your = right on. if you bought all your tools you might have to sell your kids, = car. someone posted to the list a while back asking should they buy or = tools. i compared the initial rodmaking experience to getting one chance = travel across america. would you want to fly a jetliner ( buy your = take the bus (build your tools). have = revisited that logic. i believe you can take the jet for the sheer rush, = then take the bus back from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Apr 24 11:16:42 2001 f3OGGeS24405 JAA18429 Subject: bishop gathering When is the Bishop Rodmakers Gathering? Adam Gathering? Adam from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 24 16:28:58 2001 f3OLSvS06845 Subject: quads List,If someone were to build a quad rod and not have a four jawed chuck (and did not want to purchase one) what would be the best way to turn downferrule stations, turn the grip, and turn down the reelseat station? Also what would be the best way to shape the interior hole of the cork to fit the square blank? Bret from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Apr 24 16:59:53 2001 f3OLxqS07873 Subject: Re: quads I was delivering to a guy in Mt Ayr Iowa who owns a furniature store. we started talking about fishing (he has a 7 lb 8 oz Bass mounted on his wall) and he said 'Fly rods! that reminds me." and scrounged around and found a broken fly rod. It had lost the tip, The rod was a True Temper 1255 fiberglass rod,but on it was a very odd reel! I have it now and I MIGHT be able to keep it (goody goody!) It is a Pflueger Superex No 755 automatic reel. 'Tis dusty and somewhat beat up, but it seems to work well. with a little loving care it may be very fishable. Would this be "authentic' on a cane rod, or is that getting too wierd about all this? i loaded it with DT5F and plan to use it occasionally.mark from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 24 17:48:59 2001 f3OMmxS09519 f3OMnVV17988 Subject: Re: quads The automatic reel has broken many a rod tip.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: I was delivering to a guy in Mt Ayr Iowa who owns a furniature store. westarted talking about fishing (he has a 7 lb 8 oz Bass mounted on his wall)and he said 'Fly rods! that reminds me." and scrounged around and found abroken fly rod. It had lost the tip, The rod was a True Temper 1255fiberglass rod,but on it was a very odd reel! I have it now and I MIGHT beable to keep it (goody goody!) It is a Pflueger Superex No 755 automaticreel. 'Tis dusty and somewhat beat up, but it seems to work well. with alittle loving care it may be very fishable. Would this be "authentic' on acane rod, or is that getting too wierd about all this? i loaded it with DT5Fand plan to use it occasionally.mark from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Apr 24 18:00:39 2001 f3ON0dS09951 f3ON0bD29212; Subject: Re: quads On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: I was delivering to a guy in Mt Ayr Iowa who owns a furniature store. we started talking about fishing (he has a 7 lb 8 oz Bass mounted on his wall) and he said 'Fly rods! that reminds me." and scrounged around and found a broken fly rod. It had lost the tip, The rod was a True Temper 1255 fiberglass rod,but on it was a very odd reel! I have it now and I MIGHT be able to keep it (goody goody!) It is a Pflueger Superex No 755 automatic reel. 'Tis dusty and somewhat beat up, but it seems to work well. with a little loving care it may be very fishable. Would this be "authentic' on a cane rod, or is that getting too wierd about all this? i loaded it with DT5F and plan to use it occasionally. That reel should be allowed to carry on with prior assigned "collectingdust duty"... very far from any fishable water. Or to put it another way... don't throw your love away on some cheaptramp! (I tried to stop but the fingers just kept typing). Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 24 18:12:02 2001 f3ONC1S10317 Subject: RE: quads Bret,Do you have collets? They are made four, five and six sided...........Ohyea, and round :) You can use a square collet in a hex collet holder thenit can be held in your three jaw chuck. The cost wouldn't be that much.Regards,Gary H. -----Original Message----- Subject: quads List,If someone were to build a quad rod and not have a four jawed chuck (anddid not want to purchase one) what would be the best way to turn downferrulestations, turn the grip, and turn down the reelseat station? Also whatwouldbe the best way to shape the interior hole of the cork to fit the squareblank?Bret from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 24 18:25:59 2001 f3ONPwS10951 Subject: RE: quads Bret,I don't know if that made much sense There are collets with four, fiveand six sided ID's. The collet holder has a hex OD so it can fit into thethree jaw chuck.Gary H. Bret,Do you have collets? They are made four, five and six sided...........Ohyea, and round :) You can use a square collet in a hex collet holder thenit can be held in your three jaw chuck. The cost wouldn't be that much.Regards,Gary H. from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 24 18:34:15 2001 f3ONYES11332 f3ONYjV23938;Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:34:45 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: quads The spring in the reel does not know when to stop at times. When you hit theretrieve trigger it will wind the line into the reel and if the leader knot orthe end of the line with the hook get caught in the tip top!!!!! SNAP goes thetip.I have a collection of these reels and they are all collecting dust.You can also have some fun breaking off fish by trying to retrieve line withthetrigger while you have a good fish on.They are a good novelty to play with off a rod.It does not differentiate between glass, bamboo or graphite, it likes to breakall types of tips.Mark,Will get back to you on the other message from yesterday.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/24/01 5:49:55 PM Central Daylight Time,flytyr@southshore.com writes: Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com >> REALLY? how ? I was totally unaware of this. Is it something you canguardagainst, or is it always fatal? I see auto reels occasionally and have neverhad any kind of real interest in them but this one fell in my lap so tospeak. So I thought that i would at least try it out.The other question is that would it make a difference if the rod wasgraphite? Or does it mostly mess up bamboo.mark from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 24 19:12:29 2001 f3P0CTS12577 Subject: Re: quads rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Bret - You can use a short section of thick dowel as a chuck. Drill a slightly oversize hole in the exact center of the dowel. Use your lathe, of course. Then wrap the rod section with masking tape until it jam fits. This should be a tight enough hold, but you can wrap more tape around the dowel and the rodshaft for further grip. If you want you can saw a kerf from the OD of the dowel into the center hole. Then when you tighten the dowelsection in the lathe chuck, it will pinch the shaft tighter as the kerf closes. If you are turning the ferrule station, always bring the cutting tool near the shaft and turn the shaft by hand. Make sure the shaft is running true, and that the gap between the shaft and the tool is not changing as you turn. You don't need to be that careful if turning cork.Most of the corks can be tightly fitted with a round hole, the top cork can be fussed at a bit with a square, or rectangular file from cdn@ticon.net Tue Apr 24 20:24:55 2001 f3P1OsS14330 0000 Subject: grip glue/dressing ferrules Hi folks,Couple of quick questions-What are you guys using for gluingup grips- I'm thinking of 1 hour setepoxy or tightbond 2 (the waterproof stuff)pros and cons? Also is there any reasonnot to dress ferrules before mounting them?It seems much easier to do unmounted.TIA.Ned from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 24 21:07:55 2001 f3P27sS15477 f3P28RV12585 Subject: Silk Lines Who on the list has the Silk Line info page.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Apr 24 21:26:05 2001 f3P2Q3S16197 Subject: Re: grip glue and dressing ferrules NedI have used Wood glue and I used epoxy.I use wood glue on my rods were I form the grips on the rod out of cork =rings. If I'm doing a restoration ,were I might use a preformed grip,I then use epoxy. The difference to me is when I glue individual rings I =feel there is a tighter fit.If it is a preformed cork grip I would have to ream it to fit, so epoxy =expands to fill in the small gaps. I have heard of others using Gorilla =glue because it expands. I have not used this so I would not want to =comment on how it works.But I think others have used it with success.As for the ferrules I dress my ferrules before I mount them. But be =careful they pull apart much easier once they are mounted on the rod. If =your not used to the feel you could go too far andthey will be loose, even though they felt tight off the rod. Just one =guys opinion . You will find Tony Miller NedI have used Wood glue and I = epoxy.I use wood glue on my rodswere = grips on the rod out of cork rings. If I'm doing a restoration ,were I = a preformed grip,I then use epoxy. The = when I glue individual rings I feel there is a tighter fit.If it is a preformed cork grip= to ream it to fit, so epoxy expands to fill in the small gaps. I have = would not want to comment on how it works.But I think others have usedit = success.As for the ferrules I dressmy = before I mount them. But be careful they pull apart much easier once = andthey will be loose, eventhough = tight off the rod. Just one guys opinion . You will findothers do it differently,some = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from robert.kope@prodigy.net Tue Apr 24 22:46:29 2001 f3P3kRS18240 f3P3kRi120676 Subject: resorcinol revisited Thanks to all who offered advice on the shelf life of resorcinol. I =just glued up a Garrison 212E and wanted to make it as authentic as =possible. It turned out that I didn't need the advice after all. When =I opened the old can of resin it was one solid chunk. Even I knew =better than to try to use that. I ran down to the hardware store and bought some new resorcinol to glue =this one up. This seems to be slightly lighter in color and maybe a =little thinner, but the cans are identical to the last batch I bought. =I think Washington has more lenient environmental regulations than some =other states. I know that in California rubber cement can no longer be =purchased, yet here in Washington they use it in the elementary schools. = The new batch of resorcinol does contain a warning label on the lid to =the effect that "This product contains a chemical that is known in =California to cause cancer." Sure glad I don't live in California! -- Robert Kope Thanks to all who offered advice on the= = in color and maybe a little thinner, but the cans are identical to the = cement can no longer be purchased, yet here in Washington they use it in = The new batch of resorcinol does = label on the lid to the effect that "This product contains a chemical = California! -- Robert =Kope from robert.kope@prodigy.net Tue Apr 24 23:10:56 2001 f3P4AtS18885 f3P4ArK151704;Wed, 25 Apr 2001 00:10:53 -0400 Subject: Re: grip glue/dressing ferrules I like to use polyurethane woodworking glue. It seems to retain a littleflexibility and the foaming action fills any voids I might create if I get alittle carried away reaming out the holes in the cork rings. I don't know how I'd dress ferrules if they were unmounted. I repeatedlyfit and sand the male slide until I get a good fit. I don't know how Iwould get them apart when they are still too tight if I didn't have the rodsections to hang onto. -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Subject: grip glue/dressing ferrules Hi folks,Couple of quick questions-What are you guys using for gluingup grips- I'm thinking of 1 hour setepoxy or tightbond 2 (the waterproof stuff)pros and cons? Also is there any reasonnot to dress ferrules before mounting them?It seems much easier to do unmounted.TIA.Ned from saweiss@flash.net Tue Apr 24 23:37:00 2001 f3P4axS19770 0400 Subject: Re: form tuneup, now " the bus" Organization: Prodigy Internet i'm so nervous about glueing this thing up that i've built two binders =and started planing out my second rod. is that nuts or what. Mike,When you take the string off the glued-up sections you suddenly =realize that you have a flyrod, even though there's lots more to do. The =sections have life and character, even at that stage. Don't stop now, =glue them into what you are working to do. Wait until you put a reel and =line on your first rod and cast it! Don't delay the gratification that =keeps us all going.Steve i'm so nervous about glueing this thing up that = what. Mike,When you take the string off the glued-up sections= suddenly realize that you have a flyrod, even though there's lots more = The sections have life and character, even at that stage. Don't stop = them into what you are working to do. Wait until you put a reel and = all going.Steve from saweiss@flash.net Tue Apr 24 23:46:21 2001 f3P4kKS20191 f3P4kMJ108296 0400 Subject: Re: grip glue/dressing ferrules Organization: Prodigy Internet Couple of quick questions-What are you guys using for gluingup grips- I'm thinking of 1 hour setepoxy or tightbond 2 (the waterproof stuff)pros and cons? Ned, I have used both and they are both OK. Jusust avoid using too much. Ikeep the glue against the blank and spread a little aroun the inner part ofthe ring. Minimize the amount of glue and you will get less squeeze out ofglue when you press the rings together. I think that gives fewer hard jointlines in the grips. Also is there any reasonnot to dress ferrules before mounting them?It seems much easier to do unmounted. It's pretty hard to pull tight ferrules apart if they are not glued on theblanks.Steve from piscator@macatawa.org Wed Apr 25 00:12:41 2001 f3P5CeS21217 Subject: Re: grip glue/dressing ferrules I second the use of polyurethane wood glue (Pro-bond, Gorilla Glue, Excel,etc.) I sand the cork rings' faces, and use an acid brush to spread glue onthe rings and blank VERY LIGHTLY. Then I spritz lightly with water and moveon to the next ring. I also use this glue on reel seat inserts to blankjoints. Again, it foams, expands, and fills voids, so you hafta plan forthat. First time I used it on an up-sliding seat I inadvertantly filled thepocket with foam. Took an hour to chip and sand it out. Brush it on onesurface thinly, spritz, join and clamp. The makers of Gorilla told me thatI could glue up, and then spritz the outside of the parts, but I have hadgood luck this way, and I know that there is adequate moisture for thereaction to occur without drawing it out of adjacent surfaces and risking aweak bond. Maybe I'm just anal. Oh yeah! Of course I'm anal, I build bamboo fly rods! Duh. Brian from piscator@macatawa.org Wed Apr 25 00:14:44 2001 f3P5EhS21491 Subject: Re: grip glue/dressing ferrules Forgot to mention that PU glue is waterproof, tan in color, and sands reallywell. Brian from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Apr 25 09:34:25 2001 f3PEYOS01968 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Silk Lines Tony,That would be Olaf Borge, at www.silkflylines.com.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Spezio wrote: Who on the list has the Silk Line info page.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com -- from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Apr 25 13:01:08 2001 f3PI17S11051 Subject: Re: quads This works for 5 siders and ought to work for quads I'd think...I get brass tubing from my hobby shop. Get the diameter closest but slightly over to the ferrule station or grip diameter and cut a slit lengthwise down it to take up the slop. Works like a collet and costs litte. Rob Hoffhines from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Apr 25 15:25:57 2001 f3PKPuS17460 f3PKQSV27217 0500 Subject: Re: grip glue/dressing ferrules I dress all my ferrules un-mounted. To pull them apart make a block with aholein it the size of the OD of the male ferrule. Cut the block in half through thehole. To pull the ferrule, hold the two halves together with the ferrule in thehole. Squeeze the blocks together like a clamp. I start fitting the male on theclosed end and work up the body as the female starts to fit.So far so good, they all POP when I pull them apart. This may not beconventional but I find it easier for me to do in the limited space I have towork in.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Robert Kope wrote: I like to use polyurethane woodworking glue. It seems to retain a littleflexibility and the foaming action fills any voids I might create if I get alittle carried away reaming out the holes in the cork rings. I don't know how I'd dress ferrules if they were unmounted. I repeatedlyfit and sand the male slide until I get a good fit. I don't know how Iwould get them apart when they are still too tight if I didn't have the rodsections to hang onto. -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message -----From: "Ned Guyette" Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 5:25 PMSubject: grip glue/dressing ferrules Hi folks,Couple of quick questions-What are you guys using for gluingup grips- I'm thinking of 1 hour setepoxy or tightbond 2 (the waterproof stuff)pros and cons? Also is there any reasonnot to dress ferrules before mounting them?It seems much easier to do unmounted.TIA.Ned from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Apr 25 16:04:43 2001 f3PL4fS19473 Subject: Re: quads They have square hole sleeves starting at .125" up to 1.250" in lengths from .800" to 5.500" Fax them and ask for a free catalog fax #920-793- 4848. They are good quality and cheap.Best Hal. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 25 16:24:18 2001 f3PLOHS20265 Subject: Egg on my face List, Well, you all can say I told you so but it looks as if GG is what everyone made him out to be and i was duped. Go ahead and tell me I told you so. I have never received a rod to evaluate so I can only come to one conclusion. They must really be a piece of s--t and he was afraid to let anyone see and evaluate one of his rods for national review.Right now I am bent over a fallen tree beside a river and each and every one of you has my permission to come by and kick me hard right in the arse and tell me "You dumb ba----d we told you he was a jerk.If there are any replies keep them off the list because I do not , nor do you all, want any more s--t about GG. from this day forward I take a vow to never bring him up again and i ask you all to do the same. Avast I chase the "White Whale!"Call me Ahab! from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Apr 25 20:29:36 2001 f3Q1TZS26351 Subject: Heddon-poor finish I've got a Heddon #17 that's sound but was poorly re-finished. The finishis tacky with bag marks to include scattered bag-fuzz over parts of thebamboo and japanned ferrules. The finish has an orange hue. The blackwraps are ok except for the sporatic faded color...maybe lacquer orshellac(?) has bled through...I'm not sure the overcoat is spar. I'mconsidering removing the varnish (if that's what it is) while hoping topreserve the wraps. I'm wondering if this finish can be "prettied-up" andhardened/cured without removal. I've removed varnish using 3M's SafestStripper on others, but I've never seen a finish like this one. I'm notsure Brownell's rubbing compounds or the ususal polishers will rescue thisone but I haven't tried yet. I'd appreciate comments/suggestions.Ed from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Apr 25 21:07:39 2001 Subject: Re: Heddon finish EdI think your right when varnish goes soft,It most likely can't be polished out.You might be able to strip it and save the wraps.Use some mineral spirits on the wraps to get the Then dip the new finish on. Of course all the usaull things apply here. =Sand in between coats of spar varnish on the wraps, and so on and so =forth. It should come out real nice.Tony Miller EdI think your right whenvarnish = soft,It most likely can't be = out.You might be able to strip it= wraps. spirits = stripper off. Let the wrapsdry = = apply here. Sand in between coats of spar varnish on the wraps, and so = forth. It should come out real nice.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from richjez@enteract.com Wed Apr 25 23:05:11 2001 f3Q45AS00282 Subject: Re: Egg on my face --=====================_23592206==_.ALT As far as I am concerned, you did the right thing. That thing was to give a fellow human ( I am using that work questioningly) a fair chance: benefit of the doubt. Because George is an ass, and you gave him a chance to prove it, doesn't give cause for you to have a sore one. (your image not mine :-) )Being a decent human being and giving another person a chance doesn't diminish the person, it makes them more of a person. Just my opinion. Rich Jezioro At 04:23 PM 4/25/01, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List,Well, you all can say I told you so but it looks as if GG is whateveryone made him out to be and i was duped. Go ahead and tell me I toldyouso. I have never received a rod to evaluate so I can only come to oneconclusion. They must really be a piece of s--t and he was afraid to letanyone see and evaluate one of his rods for national review.Right now I am bent over a fallen tree beside a river and each and everyone of you has my permission to come by and kick me hard right in the arseand tell me "You dumb ba----d we told you he was a jerk.If there are any replies keep them off the list because I do not , nor do youall, want any more s--t about GG. from this day forward I take a vow tonever bring him up again and i ask you all to do the same. Avast I chase the"White Whale!"Call me Ahab! *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):> --=====================_23592206==_.ALT As far as I am concerned, you did the right thing. Thatthing was to give a fellow human ( I am using that work questioningly) afair chance: benefit of the doubt. Because George is an ass, and you gavehim a chance to prove it, doesn't give cause for you to have a sore one. Being a decent human being and giving another person a chance doesn'tdiminish the person, it makes them more of a person. Just my opinion. Rich Jezioro At 04:23 PM 4/25/01, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:List, GG is what told you one to let anyone see and evaluate one of his rods for national review. and each and every one of you has my permission to come by and kick me hard right in thearse and tell me "You dumb ba----d we told you he was a jerk.If there are any replies keep them off the list because I do not , nor doyou vow to chase the "White Whale!"Call me Ahab! *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_23592206==_.ALT-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Apr 26 01:30:07 2001 f3Q6U7S03211 Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:30:05 -0700 Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:30:05 GMT Subject: Re: Heddon-poor finish FILETIME=[54BE40C0:01C0CE1A] Seems like that was pretty normal for Heddons, always have had alot of the soft tacky Heddons go through. Never have been able to polish out anything but a spot here and there. The good news is that the black is easy to match up! Strip it, rewrap it , put decent size guides on it and use it. Used a 8 1/2 ft for a long time. Had to sell it , liked it so much I always put off building one of my own and people were beginning to talk....A.J.Thramer From: "Ed Riddle" Subject: Heddon-poor finishDate: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:30:49 -0400 I've got a Heddon #17 that's sound but was poorly re-finished. The finishis tacky with bag marks to include scattered bag-fuzz over parts of thebamboo and japanned ferrules. The finish has an orange hue. The blackwraps are ok except for the sporatic faded color...maybe lacquer orshellac(?) has bled through...I'm not sure the overcoat is spar. I'mconsidering removing the varnish (if that's what it is) while hoping topreserve the wraps. I'm wondering if this finish can be "prettied-up" andhardened/cured without removal. I've removed varnish using 3M's SafestStripper on others, but I've never seen a finish like this one. I'm notsure Brownell's rubbing compounds or the ususal polishers will rescue thisone but I haven't tried yet. I'd appreciate comments/suggestions.Ed _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from dnorl@qwest.net Thu Apr 26 06:34:35 2001 f3QBYYS05881 0000 (63.228.47.246) Subject: Nunley's splitting teqnique Couldn't figure out why Nunley would straddle the cane while splitting. =Seemed to me facing it with the cane in the vice would give better =control. Not so! Tried straddling the cane and found that having the =heels of my hands on the cane gave a great deal of control when the =split wandered. It is much easier to keep the skinny part straight by =pulling straight and bending the fat piece with the heels of my hands = The man knows whereof he speaks.Dave Couldn't figure out why Nunleywould = the cane while splitting. Seemed to me facing it with the cane in the = give better control. Not so! Tried straddling the cane and found that = heels of my hands on the cane gave a great deal of control when the = wandered. It is much easier to keep the skinny part straight by pulling = and bending the fat piece with the heels of my hands for =leverage.The man knows whereof he =speaks.Dave from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Apr 26 06:35:55 2001 f3QBZsS06019 f3QBZh023699; Subject: Re: Heddon-poor finish Actually, Ed, this sounds very much like one of my standard finishes. I especially strive to achieve the "bag fuzz" effect, except that on my rodsI call it the "Custom Suede Finish". Jack Howell talks about stripping tohis shorts to do the varnishing steps; Jack, of course, is a musician, andliable to this kind of exuberance; I couldn't agree more, but in my case itis to allow freer access to a good supply of belly-button lint. Works forme! The "mottled" wraps are NOT black. Those are "Antique Gold" wraps, applied The overcoat is probably not "spar". I use a two-part epoxy finish, but findthe hardener is too expensive, so just use the resin (Clearly marked "PartA") and let it sort itself out in the shed. I refer to this as the "CamoWrap" effect. Very popular! You must understand that this finish is ALREADY "prettied up". I am amazedthat that isn't immediately obvious. You don't deign to mention it, but ifyou look closely you should see quite clearly the remains of several dozenflying insects embedded in the epoxy. These are attracted at great effort byusing a fluorescent tube to illuminate the extraction of the rod section from the dip tube, in an open shed doorway, at the height of summer. DO NOTREMOVE THESE. In time they will achieve the significance of theamber- embedded mosquitoes in "Jurassic Park", and will add hugely to thevalue of the rod. Bloody Hell, you blokes are hard to please. Stay happy Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heddon-poor finish I've got a Heddon #17 that's sound but was poorly re-finished. The finishis tacky with bag marks to include scattered bag-fuzz over parts of thebamboo and japanned ferrules. The finish has an orange hue. The blackwraps are ok except for the sporatic faded color...maybe lacquer orshellac(?) has bled through...I'm not sure the overcoat is spar. I'mconsidering removing the varnish (if that's what it is) while hoping topreserve the wraps. I'm wondering if this finish can be "prettied-up" andhardened/cured without removal. I've removed varnish using 3M's SafestStripper on others, but I've never seen a finish like this one. I'm notsure Brownell's rubbing compounds or the ususal polishers will rescue thisone but I haven't tried yet. I'd appreciate comments/suggestions.Ed from dnorl@qwest.net Thu Apr 26 06:40:12 2001 f3QBeBS06285 0000 (63.228.47.246) Subject: Nunley again I have thought sanding between coats I could keep the flats flat using =3M scotch brite and keeping it flat with my thumb nail.It did work pretty well. but in view of Nunley's insight into splitting =I gave his 1000 wet dry sand paper on a popsicle stick method a =try.using mineral spirits for the wet part. I'm sold it's the way to go. =The man knows (again)Thanks Bob,Dave I have thought sanding betweencoats = keep the flats flat using 3M scotch brite and keeping it flat with my = nail.It did work pretty well. but in view= insight into splitting I gave his 1000 wet dry sand paper on a popsicle = method a try.using mineral spirits for the wet part. I'm sold it's the = go. The man knows (again)Thanks Bob,Dave from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Apr 26 06:44:10 2001 f3QBi8S06446 f3QBi8024751; Subject: Re: Heddon-poor finish Incidentally, Ed, those Japanned ferrules on your rodare a real touch of class - mine actually come from a genuine Asiansweatshop in New Zealand, and are manufactured under horrific conditions byteenaged sheep, and they are really baaaaaaad. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Heddon-poor finish Actually, Ed, this sounds very much like one of my standard finishes. I especially strive to achieve the "bag fuzz" effect, except that on myrodsI call it the "Custom Suede Finish". Jack Howell talks about stripping tohis shorts to do the varnishing steps; Jack, of course, is a musician, andliable to this kind of exuberance; I couldn't agree more, but in my caseitis to allow freer access to a good supply of belly-button lint. Works forme! The "mottled" wraps are NOT black. Those are "Antique Gold" wraps, applied The overcoat is probably not "spar". I use a two-part epoxy finish, butfindthe hardener is too expensive, so just use the resin (Clearly marked "PartA") and let it sort itself out in the shed. I refer to this as the "CamoWrap" effect. Very popular! You must understand that this finish is ALREADY "prettied up". I amamazedthat that isn't immediately obvious. You don't deign to mention it, but ifyou look closely you should see quite clearly the remains of several dozenflying insects embedded in the epoxy. These are attracted at great effortbyusing a fluorescent tube to illuminate the extraction of the rod section from the dip tube, in an open shed doorway, at the height of summer. DONOTREMOVE THESE. In time they will achieve the significance of theamber- embedded mosquitoes in "Jurassic Park", and will add hugely to thevalue of the rod. Bloody Hell, you blokes are hard to please. Stay happy Peter ----- Original Message -----From: "Ed Riddle" Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:30 AMSubject: Heddon-poor finish I've got a Heddon #17 that's sound but was poorly re-finished. Thefinishis tacky with bag marks to include scattered bag-fuzz over parts of thebamboo and japanned ferrules. The finish has an orange hue. The blackwraps are ok except for the sporatic faded color...maybe lacquer orshellac(?) has bled through...I'm not sure the overcoat