strips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I am making a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treating stripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodes soon. What do you think? Stuart from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed May 16 15:42:11 2001 f4GKgAS19253 (216.160.236.142) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Subject: Re: Methods f4GKgBS19254 This sounds great. I have one question, though. Did Walter ever scrape theenamel off, or did he leave it on for the finished rod? Jason On 5/16/01 11:19 AM, "Stuart Moultrie" wrote: Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informative man whowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboo rodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used by him,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunner is 74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designed rods He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to a solidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook and anelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. The entire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone is achieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes are straightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun. At this point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. There hasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical press which has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodal lip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodes donot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before the node is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that he designed himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. He does not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during the bevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only short dryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with so littleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) like BobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I am making a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treating stripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodes soon. What do you think? Stuart from dnorl@qwest.net Wed May 16 19:56:27 2001 f4H0uRS25033 0000 (63.228.46.74) Subject: Re: Methods Stuart,Why did you not remove the nodal lip after straightening and pressing as hedid? Thats the part that really interests me.Dave-----Original Message-- --- Subject: Methods Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informative man whowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboo rodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used by him,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunner is 74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designed rods He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to a solidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook and anelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. The entire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone is achieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes are straightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun. At this point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. There hasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical press which has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodal lip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodes donot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before the node is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that he designed himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. He does not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during the bevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only short dryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with so littleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) like BobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I am making a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treating stripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodes soon. What do you think? Stuart from bob@downandacross.com Wed May 16 20:32:42 2001 f4H1WaS25554 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Methods Not only does it seem that planing is much harder after heat treating, but doesn't heat treating roughed strips that are tightly bound together help to straighten the strips themselves? I do this and I think it actually helps make the blanks straighter. However, the quicker you make the blank the better in my opinion.It is fascinating to see how the masters do things. Thanks for the report.Best regards,Bob from BambooRods@aol.com Wed May 16 21:09:21 2001 f4H29KS26170 Subject: Culm Storage I have a "bit" of full 12' bamboo. The question...if it is placed in an up right position, with some "lean" (leaned up against a wall and not truly 100% upright) will it take a "bend" or maintain its straightness.Doug from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed May 16 21:26:22 2001 f4H2QMS26699 2001 19:26:24 PDT Subject: Re: Culm Storage doug, i believe they stack them teepee style to drythem. if leaning is your option why not turn themperiodicaly. i store mine in the attic in a cradle ibuilt in the rafters. i keep a few culms stacked orleaned in the shop. i have not noticed them bending. ido know that if they fall to the floor from an uprightpositionthe culms will break up some. i try to avoidthat...makes it easier to get 2 rods from a culm.somewhere in the world this stuff is used forscaffolding so it's gotta be stable right? timothy --- BambooRods@aol.com wrote:I have a "bit" of full 12' bamboo. Thequestion...if it is placed in an up right position, with some "lean" (leaned up againsta wall and not truly 100% upright) will it take a "bend" or maintain itsstraightness.Doug ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed May 16 21:47:42 2001 f4H2lfS27260 Subject: scaffolding rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_3d.bd7818a.283495af_boundary There was a great article in National Geographic a couple of years ago about using bamboo for scaffolding in either Japan or China I don't remember. In the article they made mention of how the workers who put the scaffolding together had to go through very rigorous and technical training to do this job. There was also mention of the durability of scaffolding made from bamboo as opposed to metal scaffolding. The bamboo scaffolding withstoodthe winds of a typhoon and did not come down where metal scaffolding erected in the same area at the same time was totally twisted and destroyed. Thebamboo scaffolding was still standing after the typhoon and the metal scaffolding was in a twisted knocked down heap. I also saw on the Discovery Channel one time about them erecting scaffold made out of bamboo. It was quite interesting.Bret --part1_3d.bd7818a.283495af_boundary There was a great article in National Geographic a couple of yearsago about using bamboo for scaffolding in either Japan or China I don't remember. the article they made mention of how the workers who put thescaffolding together had to go through very rigorous and technical training to dothis from withstood the winds of a typhoon and did not come down where metal scaffoldingerected in the same area at the same time was totally twisted and destroyed. scaffolding was still standing after the typhoon and the metalscaffolding Channel one quite interesting.Bret --part1_3d.bd7818a.283495af_boundary-- from robert.kope@prodigy.net Wed May 16 22:43:34 2001 f4H3hXS28106 f4H3hVC221508 0400 Subject: Re: scaffolding This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Two points worth noting: 1) The main reason that bamboo scaffolding tends to withstand more abuse=than steel scaffolding is that bamboo scaffolding is anchored to the =building itself, rather than self-supporting like steel scaffolding. 2) The bamboo used for scaffolding is not the same species (or even =genus, for that matter) as the Tonkin cane we use for rodmaking. -- Robert Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:47 PMSubject: scaffolding There was a great article in National Geographic a couple of years ago = using bamboo for scaffolding in either Japan or China I don't = the article they made mention of how the workers who put the = together had to go through very rigorous and technical training to do = job. There was also mention of the durability of scaffolding made = bamboo as opposed to metal scaffolding. The bamboo scaffolding = winds of a typhoon and did not come down where metal scaffolding = the same area at the same time was totally twisted and destroyed. The = scaffolding was still standing after the typhoon and the metal = was in a twisted knocked down heap. I also saw on the Discovery = Two points worthnoting: 1) The main reason that bamboo = withstand more abuse than steel scaffolding is that bamboo scaffolding = scaffolding. 2) The bamboo used for scaffolding is = rodmaking. -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com BambooRods@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001= PMSubject: scaffoldingTherewas a = article in National Geographic a couple of years ago about using = together had to go through very rigorous and technical training to = withstood the winds of a typhoon and did not come down where metal= scaffolding erected in the same area at the same time was totally = typhoon and the metal scaffolding was in a twisted knocked down = Bret from seanmcs@ar.com.au Wed May 16 23:44:04 2001 f4H4i3S29106 Thu, 17 May 2001 14:43:40 +1000 Subject: Re: Methods Bob and Stuart: A most interesting post; thank you. I mention that Ibought years ago some heat treated culms from Partridge, and can confirmthat they are HARD also. I overcame that through soaking the stripsovernight (at least) before rough planing. Whether that would allowpreviously pressed nodes to resume their original shape, I do not know,but it seems likely that might happen. The strips are of course driedout before final planing to correct dimension. Sean Bob Nunley wrote: Stuart,A couple of years back I bought some cane that had been heat treatedasa whole culm (It had a check split in it, but nothing else). The cane wasbeautifully toned and needed no further heat treating. I made a couple offly rods and a spinning rod for a friend from it and the only problem I saw,was that this stuff planed like IRON! It was tough! For hand planing, Idon't think I'd use it again, but if I did have a power mill, then Iwouldn't have to worry about the extra aches and pains of hand planing itand would give it another shot... still have a bit of it laying aroundsomewhere, and at the rate I'm going on it, my power mill will be perfectedsometime close to the end of the next decade or two, so maybe somedayI'lltry it again! *S*I do like the idea of pressing the nodes without filing the lip.Hmmmmm... may have to run to the hardware store and buy a vice I canmill arecess in to give this a shot. It would certainly seem that it woulddecrease the visible size of the node, which, while small nodes may not be anecessity for a fine rod, I think we all certainly know it is desirable bymany collectors/buyers. This method, if I'm understanding it correctly,would definitely make the nodal area on a finished rod VERY small... I likethat idea.As far as not rough beveling before hand planing... well, before Ibought the Bellinger Beveller, I used my planing forms to rough bevel. Noproblem with doing that except that the tips are a bit harder to hold on agood 60 on the tip side of the form... solution: start your tip strips onthe butt section side of the form, get all six of them down close to buttstrip dimensions, then turn over the forms and finish them on the tip side.Shouldn't cause you any problems at all, and since you're heat treatingbefore you bevel, then there is really no reason for you to rough bevel.You can go straight to finished dimension from the split strip.Good luck on this and let us all know how this method works out for you. Later,Bob ----- Original Message -----From: Stuart Moultrie Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:19 PMSubject: Methods Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informative man whowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboo rodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used by him,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunner is 74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designed rods He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to a solidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook and anelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. The entire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone is achieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes are straightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun. At this point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. There hasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical press which has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodal lip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodes donot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before the node is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that he designed himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. He does not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during the bevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only short dryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with so littleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) like BobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I am making a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treating stripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodes soon. What do you think? Stuart from seanmcs@ar.com.au Wed May 16 23:56:41 2001 f4H4udS29411 Thu, 17 May 2001 14:56:34 +1000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: scaffolding Bret: That was National Geographic dated October 1980! Sean Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu May 17 01:25:27 2001 f4H6PQS01082 Thu, 17 May 2001 07:25:21 +0100 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: scaffolding Bamboo scaffolding is a common site in Singapore and Hong Kong.......Ihave seen some great poles, if only.......Paul Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: There was a great article in National Geographic a couple of years agoaboutusing bamboo for scaffolding in either Japan or China I don'tremember. Inthe article they made mention of how the workers who put thescaffoldingtogether had to go through very rigorous and technical training to dothisjob. There was also mention of the durability of scaffolding madefrombamboo as opposed to metal scaffolding. The bamboo scaffoldingwithstood thewinds of a typhoon and did not come down where metal scaffoldingerected inthe same area at the same time was totally twisted and destroyed. Thebambooscaffolding was still standing after the typhoon and the metalscaffoldingwas in a twisted knocked down heap. I also saw on the DiscoveryChannel onetime about them erecting scaffold made out of bamboo. It was quiteinteresting.Bret from prmulbjerg@yahoo.dk Thu May 17 04:54:17 2001 f4H9sGS03030 2001 11:54:14 CEST Subject: Spey tapers Gentlemen, im not a rodmaker, but have become increasinglyinterested in cane rods. I read about a 12' 6/7 Shenandoah Spey made by ChrisBogart with a modified Bill Waara taper. This rodsounded like something I could use if modified evenmore. I know a good rodmaker, but need to find thetaper. I would prefer the taper used by Chris Bogart,but maybe the original will do just as well, I willdiscuss this with the rodmaker. Question - does anyone have any of these tapers orshould I ask Chris Bogart for his ? Thank youPeter Mulbjerg ______________________________________________________Gör mail for langsomt for dig?Sö prov Yahoo! Messenger - her kan du i lobet af fö sekunder udvekslebeskeder med de venner, der er online. Messenger finder du pö adressen: http://dk.messenger.yahoo.com from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu May 17 07:01:10 2001 f4HC19S04376 Subject: Re: Methods Hi Dave, I removed the nodal lip because I do not have a vice with the recess cut intoit to accomodate the lip during pressing. I will be working on it though...theprospect of having very small nodes visible, as mentioned by Bob, on the rodisinteresting. Stuart Dave Norling schrieb: Stuart,Why did you not remove the nodal lip after straightening and pressing as hedid? Thats the part that really interests me.Dave-----Original Message-- ---From: Stuart Moultrie Date: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:14 PMSubject: Methods Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informative man whowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboo rodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used by him,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunner is 74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designed rods He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to a solidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook and anelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. The entire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone is achieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes are straightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun. At this point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. There hasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical press which has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodal lip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodes donot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before the node is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that he designed himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. He does not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during the bevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only short dryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with so littleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) like BobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I am making a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treating stripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodes soon. What do you think? Stuart from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu May 17 07:01:16 2001 f4HC1FS04387 Subject: Re: Methods Hi Jason, As I understood it he left the enamel on until the blank was finished and thenremoved it. If I have got it wrong perhaps Ralf Ladda could correct me. Stuart Jason Swan schrieb: This sounds great. I have one question, though. Did Walter ever scrapetheenamel off, or did he leave it on for the finished rod? Jason On 5/16/01 11:19 AM, "Stuart Moultrie" wrote: Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informative man whowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboo rodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used by him,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunner is 74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designed rods He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to a solidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook and anelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. The entire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone is achieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes are straightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun. Atthis point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. There hasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical press which has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodal lip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodes donot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before the node is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that he designed himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. He does not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during the bevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only short dryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with so littleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) like BobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I am making a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treating stripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodes soon. What do you think? Stuart from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu May 17 07:26:57 2001 f4HCQuS05094 fwd06.sul.t-online.com Thu, 17 May 2001 14:39:53 +0200 Organization: Labor =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=FCr?= Bodenmechanik Subject: Re: Methods Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.-------------- 9DE8A5208EA54F11C1B0CCCB Hi Stuart and hi to everybody on the list, Walter Brunner indeed leaves the enamel on the cane until he hasfinished the blank. I've already tried Walter's method (the one Stuartdescribed - by the way - great job, Stuart) and it really works greatwhen it comes to nodes not popping out again. On the other hand Bob isright about planing the heat treated strips - it's a lot harder if youhave to do it by hand. I do my rough out planing with the BellingerBeveler and my final planing in a planing form and I am having a realhard time doing it. I wished Stuart and I could show you guys howWalter's tapering machine works - it's really amazing and themeasurements Walter takes are as close as 0.002 inches. I've never seenor heard about a taper mill like this. Ralf Stuart Moultrie schrieb: Hi Jason, As I understood it he left the enamel on until the blank was finished andthenremoved it. If I have got it wrong perhaps Ralf Ladda could correct me. Stuart Jason Swan schrieb: This sounds great. I have one question, though. Did Walter ever scrapetheenamel off, or did he leave it on for the finished rod? Jason On 5/16/01 11:19 AM, "Stuart Moultrie" wrote: Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informative manwhowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboorodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used byhim,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunner is74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designed rods He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to a solidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook and anelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. The entire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone is achieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes arestraightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun. Atthis point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. There hasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical press which has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodal lip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodes donot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before thenode is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that hedesigned himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. He does not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during the bevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only short dryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with so littleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) like BobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I ammaking a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treatingstripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodes soon. What do you think? Stuart --------------9DE8A5208EA54F11C1B0CCCB name="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" filename="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" begin:vcard n:Ladda;Ralftel;cell:0170 - 3152964tel;fax:49 - (0) 7941 - 960154tel;home:49 - (0) 7945 - 940750tel;work:49 - (0) 7941 - 960153 org:Labor fèr Bodenmechanikadr:;;Hoelderlinstrasse 1;Pfedelbach;;74629;Germanyversion:2.1email;internet:Ralf.Ladda@t- online.defn:Ralf Laddaend:vcard --------------9DE8A5208EA54F11C1B0CCCB-- from dnorl@qwest.net Thu May 17 07:49:03 2001 f4HCn2S05616 0000 (63.228.47.176) "Liste" Subject: Re: Methods Wouldn't it be tough to maintain final dimensions by removing the enamellast?Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Methods Hi Stuart and hi to everybody on the list, Walter Brunner indeed leaves the enamel on the cane until he hasfinished the blank. I've already tried Walter's method (the one Stuartdescribed - by the way - great job, Stuart) and it really works greatwhen it comes to nodes not popping out again. On the other hand Bob isright about planing the heat treated strips - it's a lot harder if youhave to do it by hand. I do my rough out planing with the BellingerBeveler and my final planing in a planing form and I am having a realhard time doing it. I wished Stuart and I could show you guys howWalter's tapering machine works - it's really amazing and themeasurements Walter takes are as close as 0.002 inches. I've never seenor heard about a taper mill like this. Ralf Stuart Moultrie schrieb: Hi Jason, As I understood it he left the enamel on until the blank was finished andthenremoved it. If I have got it wrong perhaps Ralf Ladda could correct me. Stuart Jason Swan schrieb: This sounds great. I have one question, though. Did Walter everscrape theenamel off, or did he leave it on for the finished rod? Jason On 5/16/01 11:19 AM, "Stuart Moultrie" wrote: Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informative manwhowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboorodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used byhim,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunner is74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designedrods career.He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to asolidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook andanelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. The entire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone isachieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes arestraightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun. Atthis point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. There hasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical presswhich has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodallip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodesdonot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before thenode is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that hedesigned himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. Hedoes not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during thebevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only shortdryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with solittleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) likeBobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I ammaking a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treatingstripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodessoon. What do you think? Stuart from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu May 17 08:57:28 2001 f4HDvLS08163 fwd02.sul.t-online.com Thu, 17 May 2001 16:10:16 +0200 Organization: Labor =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=FCr?= Bodenmechanik Liste Subject: Re: Methods Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.-------------- 610B1C314D0F07B0A402F698 Hi Patrick, actually Walter built his own mill. He told Stuart and me, that he usedto plane the strips by hand with a planing form, just the way most of usdo it. One day Charles Ritz told him, that he should use a millingmachine to obtain exact dimensions. The milling machine he is now usingis a product of 50 years of rod building and was improved by him morethan one time during the years. It is actually pretty similar to theBellinger Beveler. It uses a 60Ÿ cutter and a bed, which lifts the stripinto the cutter while the strip is pushed through by a power feed. Thereally unique thing about this taper mill is the mechanism that liftsthe strip into the cutter depending on the taper of the rod and thespeed of the power feed. My English is not good enough to explain suchthings when it comes to mechanics and stuff like that. If anybody isinterested in Walter's milling machine, I could draw a rough sketch ofit and send it to you (please contact me off list). I guess Walterwouldn't mind, since he told us that he ain't got any secrets about hisway of rodbuilding. Regards Ralf from Germany "Coffey, Patrick W" schrieb: where did he get his mill or is there plans available for one of us to makeone. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 5:19 AM Subject: Re: Methods Hi Stuart and hi to everybody on the list, Walter Brunner indeed leaves the enamel on the cane until he hasfinished the blank. I've already tried Walter's method (the one Stuartdescribed - by the way - great job, Stuart) and it really works greatwhen it comes to nodes not popping out again. On the other hand Bob isright about planing the heat treated strips - it's a lot harder if youhave to do it by hand. I do my rough out planing with the BellingerBeveler and my final planing in a planing form and I am having a realhard time doing it. I wished Stuart and I could show you guys howWalter's tapering machine works - it's really amazing and themeasurements Walter takes are as close as 0.002 inches. I've neverseenor heard about a taper mill like this. Ralf Stuart Moultrie schrieb: Hi Jason, As I understood it he left the enamel on until the blank was finished andthenremoved it. If I have got it wrong perhaps Ralf Ladda could correct me. Stuart Jason Swan schrieb: This sounds great. I have one question, though. Did Walter everscrape theenamel off, or did he leave it on for the finished rod? Jason On 5/16/01 11:19 AM, "Stuart Moultrie" wrote: Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informativeman whowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboorodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used byhim,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunneris 74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designedrods career.He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal dammisremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to asolidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hookand anelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel totheculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. Theentire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone isachieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40> ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes arestraightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun.At this point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. Therehasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical presswhich has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodallip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel andnodes do>not pop back out during heat treating because it is done before thenode is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that hedesigned himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. Hedoes not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during thebevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only shortdryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with solittleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) like BobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D forinstance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel intothe> > > > > strips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? Iam making a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treatingstripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodessoon. What do you think? Stuart --------------610B1C314D0F07B0A402F698 name="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" filename="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" begin:vcard n:Ladda;Ralftel;cell:0170 - 3152964tel;fax:49 - (0) 7941 - 960154tel;home:49 - (0) 7945 - 940750tel;work:49 - (0) 7941 - 960153 org:Labor fèr Bodenmechanikadr:;;Hoelderlinstrasse 1;Pfedelbach;;74629;Germanyversion:2.1email;internet:Ralf.Ladda@t- online.defn:Ralf Laddaend:vcard --------------610B1C314D0F07B0A402F698-- from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu May 17 09:00:54 2001 f4HE0pS08378 fwd02.sul.t-online.com Thu, 17 May 2001 16:13:57 +0200 Organization: Labor =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=FCr?= Bodenmechanik Subject: Re: Methods Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.-------------- B6F08B8605BEBB457D60803F Hi Dave, both of us (Stuart and I) were thinking about this problem. I don'tremember whether we forgot to ask Walter about this or whether we forgothis answer to this question. All I know is, that his rods are more thanperfect when it comes to dimensions. I guess 50 years of experience helpa lot. Ralf Dave Norling schrieb: Wouldn't it be tough to maintain final dimensions by removing the enamellast?Dave-----Original Message-----From: Ralf Ladda Date: Thursday, May 17, 2001 7:27 AMSubject: Re: Methods Hi Stuart and hi to everybody on the list, Walter Brunner indeed leaves the enamel on the cane until he hasfinished the blank. I've already tried Walter's method (the one Stuartdescribed - by the way - great job, Stuart) and it really works greatwhen it comes to nodes not popping out again. On the other hand Bob isright about planing the heat treated strips - it's a lot harder if youhave to do it by hand. I do my rough out planing with the BellingerBeveler and my final planing in a planing form and I am having a realhard time doing it. I wished Stuart and I could show you guys howWalter's tapering machine works - it's really amazing and themeasurements Walter takes are as close as 0.002 inches. I've never seenor heard about a taper mill like this. Ralf Stuart Moultrie schrieb: Hi Jason, As I understood it he left the enamel on until the blank was finished andthenremoved it. If I have got it wrong perhaps Ralf Ladda could correct me. Stuart Jason Swan schrieb: This sounds great. I have one question, though. Did Walter everscrape theenamel off, or did he leave it on for the finished rod? Jason On 5/16/01 11:19 AM, "Stuart Moultrie" wrote: Hi List, recently Ralf Ladda and I visited Walter Brunner, an internationallyknown rodmaker, in Austria. He was a very kind and informativemanwhowas willing to share his knowledge and expert advice on bamboorodmaking. His shop, situated in Steyr in Austria is a Bamboorodmakersparadise. I am sure that the methods he uses are not only used byhim,but they do differ from the usual rodmakers ways. Walter Brunneris74and has been making rods since the second world war. He designedrods career.He has been a professional rodmaker for a very long time. Heat Treating: The culm is split by hand and then the nodal damm isremoved with a disc sander. Then all the strips are strapped to asolidmetal pipe. The metal pipe is then hung on a slow revolving hook andanelectric oven consisting of two elements about a foot in height andmounted either side of the pipe is moved up and down parallel to theculm by a motor and chain setup while the culm is rotated. Theentire(split) culm is then heat treated until a certain brown tone isachieved (it is a very light colour). I suppose the process is a bit likeelectric flaming. All treated strips are kept in a warm box at 40ŸC. Straightening: The bends and curves between the nodes arestraightenedand then the nodes themselves are straightened using a heat gun.Atthis point the enamel and the lip on the node are STILL INTACT. Therehasbeen no filing done. He then pesses the node with a vertical presswhich has a jaw with a small recess cut into it to accomodate the nodallip!!The strips are now flat and straight with only the lip to file offbefore bevelling. This means that his strips do not recieve a primary bevel and nodesdonot pop back out during heat treating because it is done before thenode is pressed. The strips are then final tapered in an amazing machine that hedesigned himself which lifts the strip on a pivoted bed into the cutters. Hedoes not remove the pith before tapering, it is removed during thebevellingprocess. Then he glues .Then ferrules. Then varnishing is done by hand rubbing one coat of varnish with anylon stocking and a further two coats with a brush. The finish is perfect. He allowed Ralf and I to cast one of his rods, he makes only shortdryfly rods, called Amabile.......what a rod, so much power with solittleeffort. As a stress graph it looks a little (very, very little) likeBobNunleys 6' 0'' 4 Weight. Very stiff compared to a Sir D for instance,but what a fantastic feeling of line control. So the most interesting part is not putting a primary bevel into thestrips. Can hand planers also save this part of the process? I ammaking a rod at the moment skipping the primary bevel and heat treatingstripsbound to a pipe in my Neunemann oven.I have removed the nodal lip and will straighten and press nodessoon. What do you think? Stuart --------------B6F08B8605BEBB457D60803F name="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" filename="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" begin:vcard n:Ladda;Ralftel;cell:0170 - 3152964tel;fax:49 - (0) 7941 - 960154tel;home:49 - (0) 7945 - 940750tel;work:49 - (0) 7941 - 960153 org:Labor fèr Bodenmechanikadr:;;Hoelderlinstrasse 1;Pfedelbach;;74629;Germanyversion:2.1email;internet:Ralf.Ladda@t- online.defn:Ralf Laddaend:vcard --------------B6F08B8605BEBB457D60803F-- from vfish@vFish.net Thu May 17 11:52:59 2001 f4HGqxS15771 Subject: RE: scaffolding -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: scaffolding How time flies when having fun... When I was in Hong Kong in the 1980's I was amazed at the construction ofthe high rise buildings. They worked 24/7 on them and the bambooscaffolding had catch nets about every 5 floors... a nice adrenaline rush ifyou slip, no doubt... Darrell -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: scaffolding Bret: That was National Geographic dated October 1980! Sean Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Thu May 17 12:09:13 2001 f4HH9BS16483 fwd01.sul.t-online.com +0200 Organization: Labor =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=FCr?= Bodenmechanik Subject: Walter Brunner's Taper Mill Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.-------------- 8505D7564F7A6A03553A8397 Hi list, since there are quite a few of you guys interested in Walter Brunner'sTaper Mill, I will post it to the list (hope the rest won't mind). Iguess I will do it tomorrow, as soon as my dear friend and fellowlistmember Stuart Moultrie has reviewed my explanations which come withmy rough sketch (Technical terms - I'm not to good at 'em). Ralf from Germany--------------8505D7564F7A6A03553A8397 name="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" filename="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" begin:vcard n:Ladda;Ralftel;cell:0170 - 3152964tel;fax:49 - (0) 7941 - 960154tel;home:49 - (0) 7945 - 940750tel;work:49 - (0) 7941 - 960153 org:Labor fèr Bodenmechanikadr:;;Hoelderlinstrasse 1;Pfedelbach;;74629;Germanyversion:2.1email;internet:Ralf.Ladda@t- online.defn:Ralf Laddaend:vcard --------------8505D7564F7A6A03553A8397-- from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Thu May 17 14:50:15 2001 f4HJoES21995 Thu, 17 May 2001 12:50:12 -0700 Subject: Binder FILETIME=[96121B90:01C0DF0A] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I am looking to buy a used Bellinger Binder in good condition. If anyone = thanks, Mark mark_dyba@hotmail.com I am looking to buy a used Bellinger = condition. If anyone has one for sale please contact me at my e-mail = mark_dyba@hotmail.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu May 17 15:02:04 2001 f4HK23S22609 f4HK26x08145 Subject: English Reelseat Hardware Does anyone have some salvaged English reelseat parts collecting dust?I'm looking to replace an overly heavy uplocking seat on a 6 footer withsomething lighter and more "English" looking (slipring & pocket ordownslide cap & ring over cork perhaps?). Regards, Bob from stpete@netten.net Thu May 17 16:34:24 2001 f4HLYNS25863 Thu, 17 May 2001 15:42:37 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: scaffolding You guys should have been at the company dinner where one of my wife'sassociates spoke in great detail about how the Chinese went aboutconstructing their cotton linter mills and pulp mills. Huge valves andpumps were installed using hundreds of men and hundreds of bamboo poleslashed together to lift, manuever, and place the equipment. Where we mightuse a crane, they would use a cheaper resource - people and sticks ofbamboo! I would have liked to have had the pictures. Rick C. "paul.blakley" wrote: Bamboo scaffolding is a common site in Singapore and Hong Kong.......Ihave seen some great poles, if only.......Paul Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: There was a great article in National Geographic a couple of years agoaboutusing bamboo for scaffolding in either Japan or China I don'tremember. Inthe article they made mention of how the workers who put thescaffoldingtogether had to go through very rigorous and technical training to dothisjob. There was also mention of the durability of scaffolding madefrombamboo as opposed to metal scaffolding. The bamboo scaffoldingwithstood thewinds of a typhoon and did not come down where metal scaffoldingerected inthe same area at the same time was totally twisted and destroyed. Thebambooscaffolding was still standing after the typhoon and the metalscaffoldingwas in a twisted knocked down heap. I also saw on the DiscoveryChannel onetime about them erecting scaffold made out of bamboo. It was quiteinteresting.Bret from flytyr@southshore.com Thu May 17 20:28:11 2001 f4I1SAS00132 f4I1UJV25321 Subject: Re: Methods Tony Spezio wrote: Stuart,Try a short length of aluminum angle, file the recess needed for the nodallip anduse double sided tape to attach the angle to the vise jaws if you alreadyhave avise. I did this on a vise that did not have smooth jaws. If the angle has aradius in the bend you will have to file it out to fit the jaws flush. I will filethe nodal recess in mine and see if I like doing it that way. Sounds like agoodway to go.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. Stuart Moultrie wrote: Hi Dave, I removed the nodal lip because I do not have a vice with the recess cutintoit to accomodate the lip during pressing. I will be working on itthough...theprospect of having very small nodes visible, as mentioned by Bob, on therod isinteresting. Stuart Dave Norling schrieb: from prmulbjerg@yahoo.dk Fri May 18 04:33:20 2001 f4I9XJS05627 2001 11:33:21 CEST Subject: More on spey taper First - thank you all for responding to my mail. I have read what you wrote and I have gone trough thearchives and found even more, but I am still missingsomething. from what I understand the taper U received is BillWaara's original, but the Shenandoah Spey rod build byChris Bogart is modified to be more powerfull. What I am wondering now is how the taper is modified ? I saw that Chris Bogart answered some questions aboutthis, so if it is not out of line, maybe he would careto describe the modifications ? I of course understand if he will be unwilling toreveil his businesssecrets - but the rod is supposedto be a real "cannon" and given the fact that thenumber of rod he can produce is limited due to thelack of the right kind of tonkin, then maybe...... Best regardsPeter Mulbjerg ______________________________________________________Gör mail for langsomt for dig?Sö prov Yahoo! Messenger - her kan du i lobet af fö sekunder udvekslebeskeder med de venner, der er online. Messenger finder du pö adressen: http://dk.messenger.yahoo.com from Kengorific@aol.com Fri May 18 08:44:34 2001 f4IDiXS09003 Subject: scarfed ferrule joints I few days ago I was reading some old posts and saw an article about using a scarf joint and electric tape for a ferrule connection. The author referred to an article that appeared in 'The Planning Form'. I would like to back order a copy of this article if someone on the list could help me remember the title, or vol/date of the publication. I have tried to go back and find the post but I have not had any luck. The scarf procedure sounds straight forward but I would like some more info on the trangular reinforcing strips that are glued to the joint, a picture would help. from flytyr@southshore.com Fri May 18 09:02:15 2001 f4IE2ES09660 f4IE4PV23408 Subject: Lenord Tapers. Will the list member that posted Leonard Duracanetapers get back to me off list.Lost your E address.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Fri May 18 11:37:40 2001 f4IGbBS14755 fwd05.sul.t-online.com Fri, 18 May 2001 18:49:10 +0200 Organization: Labor =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=FCr?= Bodenmechanik Subject: Walter Brunner's Taper Mill Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.-------------- 605BC027F9E87884300B625D Hi list, as I promised you yesterday, I've drawn a rough sketch of WalterBrunner's Taper Mill. Explanations to pictures are stated below. Ifanybody is wondering what a CAM is, check out the address below: http://members.edventures.com/custom/wr/terms/c/cam/termbrowser.html Explanations to Pictures 1 and 2: A = BedB = Cutter (60Ÿ)C = CamD = Power FeedE = Bamboo stripF = Micro switchG = Drive belt The strip is inserted into the power feed (D), which consists of anumber of rotating rubber pullies. The Pullies should be made with anadjustable spring mechanism, so they will fit different strips withvarious widths. The power feed is driven by drive belts with a motorwith an adjustable speed.When the strip passes the first micro switch (F) in front of the Cutter(B) the cam (C) which is located underneath the bed (A) will startturning. The motor which turns the cam has to have an adjustable speedas well. The cam will lift the bed/strip into the cutter as the strip ispushed forward by the power feed. The amount of height gained by the bedis dictated by the cam's shape. As soon as the end of the strip haspassed the micro switch which is located behind the cutter the cam willstop turning - this means that both micro switches have to be connectedto the motor of the cam to either turn it on or off. As you can see thecam has a very special shape, which has to be calculated according tothe taper of the butt- or tip section. This means you have to have a cammachined in a shop for each butt- and tip section taper. You have tocorrelate the speed of the cam and the speed of the power feed. Exactlyat the point when the front of your strip enters the cutter the cam hasto start turning and exactly when the strip leaves the cutter the camhas to stop turning and should have made one full turn (actually notreally one full turn - it has to turn from the lowest point of the camto the heighest point, im my picture this would be ca. 270Ÿ). WalterBrunner has solved this problem by installing a little green light whichcomes on, when the strip passes the first micro switch and which turnsoff when it passes the second micro switch. Just below this green lighthe has a little disc with a red dot painted on it. This little disc isconnected to the cam and turns at the same speed. Another yellow dot ispainted on the outside of the little disc. When he starts milling healigns the two coloured dots. Now the little green light comes on (whenthe strip enters the cutter) and the red dot starts turning. When thegreen light turns off (the strip has passed the cutter) the two coloureddots should be aligned again (see picture 2). This is a matter of trialand error and it requires two motors with variable and adjustable speeds(one for the power feed and one for the cam). I didn't draw the holddowns for the strip (spring mechanism), so you have to add them as well. Hope this helps Ralf from Germany (with lots of help from Stuart Moultrie)>Fromdpvbkjs@somtel.com Fri May 18 18:50:26 2001 f4INoPS25776 Subject: Bellinger ferrule failure It's one of those nights. Five minutes ago the outer tube of a 15/64thsfemale ferrule just pulled off in my hand. It was mounted and glued withGolfsmith shafting epoxy on the butt section of a three piece currently inprogress. I hadn't even lapped the ferrules and wasn't pulling on it withany significant pressure; I was actually rotating it by hand as I polishedthe fingers with a small strip with 2000 grit sandpaper. Is there anything I can do short of replacing the entire ferrule? I'mconcerned that the heat of silver solder would harm the rod. Guess this one won't be ready for Canadian Cane :-( Dave from bob@downandacross.com Fri May 18 18:54:55 2001 f4INssS25943 Subject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure --=====================_14119717==_.ALT HI Dave:Try using Locktite to rejoin the loosened part.Bob At 07:51 PM 5/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:It's one of those nights. Five minutes ago the outer tube of a 15/64thsfemale ferrule just pulled off in my hand. It was mounted and glued withGolfsmith shafting epoxy on the butt section of a three piece currently inprogress. I hadn't even lapped the ferrules and wasn't pulling on it withany significant pressure; I was actually rotating it by hand as I polishedthe fingers with a small strip with 2000 grit sandpaper. Is there anything I can do short of replacing the entire ferrule? I'mconcerned that the heat of silver solder would harm the rod. Guess this one won't be ready for Canadian Cane :-( Dave Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_14119717==_.ALT HI Dave:Try using Locktite to rejoin the loosened part.BobAt 07:51 PM 5/18/2001 -0400, you wrote: Five minutes ago the outer tube of a 15/64ths withGolfsmith shafting epoxy on the butt section of a three piece currentlyin it withany significant pressure; I was actually rotating it by hand as Ipolishedthe fingers with a small strip with 2000 grit sandpaper. I'mconcerned that the heat of silver solder would harm the rod. Dave Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_14119717==_.ALT-- from rmoon@ida.net Fri May 18 19:21:46 2001 f4J0LjS26436 0000 Subject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failureReferences: I wouldn't even try to do anything, but send it back to the maker and yell abit.Ralph "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott" wrote: It's one of those nights. Five minutes ago the outer tube of a 15/64thsfemale ferrule just pulled off in my hand. from caneman@clnk.com Fri May 18 19:42:00 2001 f4J0fxS26807 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Dave,Bob is right... Loctite makes a formula specifically for mounting =bearings and bushings. I don't know the product number, but it's =available at any auto parts store that carries loctite. Oh, and be SURE =you have things where you want them when you assemble with this stuff... =If I remember correctly, this particular formula (a green liquid) will =only come apart if you heat it to 1400 degrees farenheit... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 6:54 PMSubject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure HI Dave:Try using Locktite to rejoin the loosened part.Bob At 07:51 PM 5/18/2001 -0400, you wrote: It's one of those nights. Five minutes ago the outer tube of a =15/64thsfemale ferrule just pulled off in my hand. It was mounted and glued =withGolfsmith shafting epoxy on the butt section of a three piece =currently inprogress. I hadn't even lapped the ferrules and wasn't pulling on =it withany significant pressure; I was actually rotating it by hand as I =polishedthe fingers with a small strip with 2000 grit sandpaper. Is there anything I can do short of replacing the entire ferrule? =I'mconcerned that the heat of silver solder would harm the rod. Guess this one won't be ready for Canadian Cane :-( DaveBob Maulucci= http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboo=rods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, =and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com Dave, number, but it's available at any auto parts store that carries = Oh, and be SURE you have things where you want them when you assemble = stuff... If I remember correctly, this particular formula (a green = only come apart if you heat it to 1400 degrees farenheit... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Downandacross Rods Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 6:54=PM failure part.BobAt 07:51 PM 5/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:It's one of those = minutes ago the outer tube of a 15/64thsfemale ferrule just = hadn't even lapped the ferrules and wasn't pulling on it withany = sandpaper.Is there anything I can do short of replacing the = the rod.Guess this one won't be ready for Canadian = :-(Dave = = bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for= quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, = accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com= from bob@downandacross.com Fri May 18 19:48:17 2001 f4J0mFS27099 Subject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure --=====================_2421400==_.ALT Well, it is sure about time I was right. Thanks.Actually, I have had several well respected makers tell me they use Locktite when making all their ferrules. I cannot personally attest to it since I make mine from solid stock not tubing.Bob M. you wrote:Dave,Bob is right... --=====================_2421400==_.ALT Well, it is sure about time I was right. Thanks.Actually, I have had several well respected makers tell me they useLocktite when making all their ferrules. I cannot personally attest to itsince I make mine from solid stock not tubing. Bob M.you wrote:Dave, --=====================_2421400==_.ALT-- from iank@ts.co.nz Fri May 18 20:31:29 2001 f4J1VRS27865 Subject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Guys, Bob is correct . The high strength and high temperature loctite glue is =the green solution and it is "Loctite 620" or part number 62050 for a 50 =ml bottle. A 50 ml bottle will make a couple of hundred ferrules but =they probably have it in smaller containers. I use it for all my =ferrules and it is much easier to use, and stronger, then solder. However if you do use it be very sure to clean any remnants out of the =female ferrule before you fit the male. ( guess how I know) Ian Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 12:40 PMSubject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure Dave,Bob is right... Loctite makes a formula specifically for mounting =bearings and bushings. I don't know the product number, but it's =available at any auto parts store that carries loctite. Oh, and be SURE =you have things where you want them when you assemble with this stuff... =If I remember correctly, this particular formula (a green liquid) will =only come apart if you heat it to 1400 degrees farenheit... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 6:54 PMSubject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure HI Dave:Try using Locktite to rejoin the loosened part.Bob At 07:51 PM 5/18/2001 -0400, you wrote: It's one of those nights. Five minutes ago the outer tube of a =15/64thsfemale ferrule just pulled off in my hand. It was mounted and =glued withGolfsmith shafting epoxy on the butt section of a three piece =currently inprogress. I hadn't even lapped the ferrules and wasn't pulling on =it withany significant pressure; I was actually rotating it by hand as I =polishedthe fingers with a small strip with 2000 grit sandpaper. Is there anything I can do short of replacing the entire ferrule? =I'mconcerned that the heat of silver solder would harm the rod. Guess this one won't be ready for Canadian Cane :-( DaveBob Maulucci= http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate =bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and =accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com Guys, Bob is correct . The high strength and = temperature loctite glue is the green solution and it is "Loctite 620" = number 62050 for a 50 ml bottle. A 50 ml bottle will make a couple of = ferrules but they probably have it in smaller containers. I use it for = ferrules and it is much easier to use, and stronger, then =solder. However if you do use it be very sure = remnants out of the female ferrule before you fit the male. ( guess how = know) Ian ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley dpvbkjs@somtel.com Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 = PM failure Dave, = product number, but it's available at any auto parts store that = assemble with this stuff... If I remember correctly, this particular = farenheit... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Downandacross Rods Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 = PMSubject: Re: Bellinger = failureHI Dave:Try using Locktite to rejoin the loosened = part.BobAt 07:51 PM 5/18/2001 -0400, you wrote:It's one of those = Five minutes ago the outer tube of a 15/64thsfemale ferrule = on it withany significant pressure; I was actually rotating it = sandpaper.Is there anything I can do short of replacing = the rod.Guess this one won't be ready for Canadian = :-(Dave = bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, = accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com= from canazon@mindspring.com Fri May 18 20:40:37 2001 f4J1eaS28125 Subject: leonard rod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. all,i saw a rod for auction that has h.l. leonard rod co. stamped on the =butt cap. it is an 8 1/2 ft. 3 piece. the rod was a light brown color, =the silk was brownish or tan, with red tipping on the ferrules. the =ferrules appear to be of an older make. the cork grip was 5 inches =long. it looks like an old rod except it has what looks like a new = i'm knew at this and the only leonard's i've seen are in books or a =museum. it has no other identification marks or numbers on it. i believe =the node pattern is 3x3, and the nodes are spaced very close to each =other, as though they had come from the very end of a culm. the tips =appear to be twinned.it seems to be a very nice rod whatever the make, but the =aluminum hardware has thrown me off. any input would be appreciated.mike all, = leonard rod co. stamped on the butt cap. it is an 8 1/2 ft. 3 piece. the = a light brown color, the silk was brownish or tan, with red tipping on = ferrules. the ferrules appear to be of an older make. the cork grip was = inches long. it looks like an old rod except it has what looks like a = aluminum downlocking piece on the reelseat. leonard's i've seen are in books or a museum. it has no other = nodes are spaced very close to each other, as though they had come from = end of a culm. the tips appear to be twinned. seems = very nice rod whatever the make, but the aluminum hardware has thrown me= mike from rextutor@about.com Fri May 18 22:38:16 2001 f4J3cFS29659 (NPlex 5.5.015.3) 2001 20:35:39 -0700 Subject: taper questions I looked at a taper resources on theinternet and I am confused . Can South bend , butt section is 33 inches , feels stiff , wraps are aged green and even older red. But really what I want to do is understand taper databases better for future use. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/tapers.html just seems to be a list of I see no numbers unless I know who to look for , right ? http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/Tapers/hexrod-archive.htmllooks better but doesn't have South Bend ( what I have now ) or Shakespeare. http://pub1.ezboard.com/fanglerscollectiblesbamboorodtaperdatabaseNice but again , I see no numbers unless I know who to look for , right ? If I entered a taper to search this list serve do you think it would work . Would one of these taper archives help ? Which one ? How would you do it ? a book ? TIA, Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri May 18 23:07:59 2001 f4J47xS00066 Fri, 18 May 2001 21:07:57 -0700 Sat, 19 May 2001 04:07:57 GMT Subject: Re: Bellinger ferrule failure FILETIME=[49335900:01C0E019] We'll get you there yet dave! The subcontractor that soldered the ferrules repair them and repaired about a thousand sets for Bellinger. Heres how: Clean up the male slide that is glued to the rod with 200 to 300 grit wet or dry paper. Carefuly clean out the old solder lumps (if any) that are in the female. Roughen up the inside of the female with the W/D (wrap around a q-tip or a small dowel). Clean up the female and male slide with lighter fluid. Get a small tube of Loctite retaining compound(600 series ie: 640 or 660 or 680).Apply a drop to the male and spread with your finger and assemble the female with a twisting motion. Let sit without distubing it for 24 hours and you are ready to go again. The loctite is considerably stronger than solder and is more heat resistant. A.J.Thramer ps recieved a rod today with the same problem, even sheared the pin off! From: dpvbkjs@somtel.com (D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott) Subject: Bellinger ferrule failureDate: Fri, 18 May 2001 19:51:36 -0400 It's one of those nights. Five minutes ago the outer tube of a 15/64thsfemale ferrule just pulled off in my hand. It was mounted and glued withGolfsmith shafting epoxy on the butt section of a three piece currently inprogress. I hadn't even lapped the ferrules and wasn't pulling on it withany significant pressure; I was actually rotating it by hand as I polishedthe fingers with a small strip with 2000 grit sandpaper. Is there anything I can do short of replacing the entire ferrule? I'mconcerned that the heat of silver solder would harm the rod. Guess this one won't be ready for Canadian Cane :-( Dave _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sat May 19 06:54:50 2001 f4JBsnS04174 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Ferrule Troubles Guys/Gals, both cases, the males were lapped and slid easily into the females. The rodhad been assembled & taken apart a number of times. And then, for somereason, the female seems to shrink by the formation of a rough spot in thefemale ferrule barrel. Lapping the male round doesn't fix the trouble asthe female has a rough spot. The mouth of the female appears to be smoothand with as good a look as I can get down the female, it appears to have norough spots.I always chamfer the males for about 0.020" back from the outboard endwithstones and smooth the chamfer with 5U paper till it is polished smooth. Theangle of the chamfer is not abrupt but is rounded.This is the first time I've encountered this type of problem in over 90 rods. Any ideas? 1] Some things that occur to me is when lapping the male to fit, theleading edge of the male gets sharp.2] There is a soft spot in the tubing. Help, Don from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat May 19 18:59:20 2001 f4JNxKS13277 +0000 Subject: Taig lathe. Does anyone on the list have any experience with the Taig mini-lathe? Jack from mrmac@tcimet.net Sat May 19 22:49:21 2001 f4K3nKS15830 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles I wonder if maybe the chamfer on the male allowed for a small particle ofsomekind of contamination to be caught and then embedded in the female wallthrough awedging action as the male slid by. If the male had a "sharp" corner, itseemslike it would less likely to entrap any particles as it slid along, scraping thefemale wall clean instead, perhaps? Just a thought. mac Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, both cases, the males were lapped and slid easily into the females. The rodhad been assembled & taken apart a number of times. And then, for somereason, the female seems to shrink by the formation of a rough spot in thefemale ferrule barrel. Lapping the male round doesn't fix the trouble asthe female has a rough spot. The mouth of the female appears to besmoothand with as good a look as I can get down the female, it appears to have norough spots.I always chamfer the males for about 0.020" back from the outboard endwithstones and smooth the chamfer with 5U paper till it is polished smooth.Theangle of the chamfer is not abrupt but is rounded.This is the first time I've encountered this type of problem in over 90 rods.Any ideas? 1] Some things that occur to me is when lapping the male to fit, theleading edge of the male gets sharp.2] There is a soft spot in the tubing. Help, Don from jczimny@dol.net Sun May 20 12:25:09 2001 f4KHP8S23356 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Test Test. from beadman@mac.com Sun May 20 12:52:36 2001 f4KHqZS23866 0700 Subject: Re: Test At 1:33 PM -0400 , 5/20/01, J. C. Zimny wrote about TestTest. It works, John - just no action on the list...everyone must be off fishing. Claude from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun May 20 13:40:50 2001 f4KIenS24711 Subject: dial indicator --part1_78.150849ac.283969a1_boundary Every one who asked about the dial indicator. It is sold and on its way to the West coast.Bret --part1_78.150849ac.283969a1_boundary its way to the West coast.Bret --part1_78.150849ac.283969a1_boundary-- from cadams46@juno.com Sun May 20 15:01:41 2001 f4KK1eS25765 16:01:32 EDT Subject: Alternate Bamboo Since the list is slow I'll ask a question that I know has come up beforebut it only recently hit home. A local home store is closing and Inoticed they have several stocks of bamboo for sale, very cheap. It is agolden color with good node spacing and it looked to have good powerfibers. Cross section it looked to me just like tonkin cane. So do you guysthink its worth my time to buy a few sticks or should I just leave itthere?Thanks,C.R. Adams from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun May 20 17:39:55 2001 f4KMdsS27566 Subject: Re: Test In a message dated 5/20/01 12:54:30 PM Central Daylight Time,beadman@mac.com writes: Heck yeah, I got another bluegill this AM with a friend, and a little black bass! Nice here in Iowa!mark visit Magic Mark's home page http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun May 20 19:23:00 2001 f4L0N0S28832 Subject: 6' 3" guide spacing rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_3b.14d9f887.2839b9d8_boundary List,here is the guide spacing I decided to use on the 6'3" two piece that I am getting ready to finish up.tip top4.5"9.59"15.27"21.54"28.39"35.84"ferrule43.88"52.50 stripper. This was given to me by Art Port and it moves my ferrule guide above the male ferrule on the tip and puts the stripper at about 23"s. By moving the guide spacing from stripper at 28"s to this position I was able to increase the casting from 65' casts to 75'+ casts with no effort. I did not notice the line seeming to wobble so much on the cessation of casting stroke like was present with the longer stripper distance. You have to take into consideration I am a casting instructor so this cast may not be feasible for most with such a short rod. Bret --part1_3b.14d9f887.2839b9d8_boundary List,here is the guide spacing I decided to use on the 6'3" two piece that Iam getting ready to finish up.tip top4.5"9.59"15.27"21.54"28.39"35.84"ferrule43.88" Port and it moves my ferrule guide above the male ferrule on the tip and puts the stripper at about 23"s. the guide spacing from stripper at 28"s to this position I was able to increase the casting from 65' casts to 75'+ casts with no effort. notice the line seeming to wobble so much on the cessation of castingstroke take into consideration I am a casting instructor so this cast may not be feasible Bret --part1_3b.14d9f887.2839b9d8_boundary-- from horsesho@ptd.net Sun May 20 19:51:55 2001 f4L0ptS29332 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Got any tomatoes growing in the garden? Marty cadams46@juno.com wrote: Since the list is slow I'll ask a question that I know has come up beforebut it only recently hit home. A local home store is closing and Inoticed they have several stocks of bamboo for sale, very cheap. It is agolden color with good node spacing and it looked to have good powerfibers.Cross section it looked to me just like tonkin cane. So do you guysthink its worth my time to buy a few sticks or should I just leave itthere?Thanks,C.R. Adams from rsgould@cmc.net Sun May 20 21:00:14 2001 f4L20DS00105 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo If you're not sure it is Arundinaria Amabalis don't waste your time.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Alternate Bamboo Since the list is slow I'll ask a question that I know has come up beforebut it only recently hit home. A local home store is closing and Inoticed they have several stocks of bamboo for sale, very cheap. It is agolden color with good node spacing and it looked to have good powerfibers. Cross section it looked to me just like tonkin cane. So do you guysthink its worth my time to buy a few sticks or should I just leave itthere?Thanks,C.R. Adams from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun May 20 21:07:14 2001 f4L27DS00385 2001 19:07:16 PDT Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo c.r., why not? it would be hard to tell what it is from way out here in cyber space. i have messed withsome oddball stuff before that wasn't as good as this,probably. i would get one piece anyway. if it doesn'twork out then it doesn't. if it's cheap, so what. i picked up some really good stuff from a contractorthat used it to decorate a resturant 40 yrs ago. ithad been stored in the rafters of a barn ever since.you don't make new discoveries unless you move away from the pack. if it looks reasonable trust yourjudgement. there are alot of midnite judgment callsyou make when you get into this racket and unless youhave another rodmaker living in your basement you'llneed to learn to trust the one that's standing in yourshoes. if i had a chance to pick up some bamboo thatlooks pretty good, i would. i would find itintresting to hear what you find out. timothy --- cadams46@juno.com wrote:Since the list is slow I'll ask a question that Iknow has come up beforebut it only recently hit home. A local home storeis closing and Inoticed they have several stocks of bamboo for sale,very cheap. It is agolden color with good node spacing and it looked tohave good powerfibers. Cross section it looked to me just like tonkincane. So do you guysthink its worth my time to buy a few sticks orshould I just leave itthere?Thanks,C.R. Adams ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from channer@frontier.net Sun May 20 21:22:14 2001 f4L2MDS00841 Subject: Caneman, are you out there? Bob Nunley, please e-mail me, or call me at 970-259-8220John Channer from Canerods@aol.com Sun May 20 22:07:19 2001 f4L37IS01578 Subject: Re: dial indicator --part1_ff.6943d88.2839e05f_boundary In a message dated 5/20/01 11:42:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Every one who asked about the dial indicator. It is sold and on its way to the West coast. Bret Bret, Would you have a spare base for a dial indicator FS? I need one. Don Burns --part1_ff.6943d88.2839e05f_boundary In a message dated5/20/01 11:42:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: way to the West coast. Bret Bret, Would you have a spare base for a dial indicator FS? I need one. Don Burns --part1_ff.6943d88.2839e05f_boundary-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun May 20 22:21:55 2001 f4L3LsS01967 Sun, 20 May 2001 20:21:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Don,I know I'm coming in late on this, but I have similar problems. It seems tome that almost every ferrule I use works well -- at first. For a month or so,the ferrules are just right. But within about 60 days, either the male growsorthe female shrinks. I've got no explanation that satisfies me. I guess it'spossible (though doubtful) that moisture re-enters the cane until itacclimateswith its surroundings, and the cane "grows" as a result, forcing the male tofitmore tightly.My suggestion for your problem would be some 4/0 or 6/0 steel woolwrappedaround a slightly undersized dowel and twisted into the female. I always steelwool the females quite thoroughly to get rid of any excess solder and flux,thenclean with naptha.If you figure this one out, please let us know what you learn, Harry Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: both cases, the males were lapped and slid easily into the females. The rodhad been assembled & taken apart a number of times. And then, for somereason, the female seems to shrink by the formation of a rough spot in thefemale ferrule barrel. Lapping the male round doesn't fix the trouble asthe female has a rough spot. The mouth of the female appears to besmoothand with as good a look as I can get down the female, it appears to have norough spots. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from goodaple@tcac.net Sun May 20 23:13:07 2001 f4L4D6S02695 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo I have a rod that I made out of non-tonkin that I like the action of verymuch. The cane had growers marks but was great for practice when I firststarted. Still got a bale of it.Nice prices, guy still has plenty. HarryBoyd cast this rod on the river at the roundup. Harry could you tell anymajor differences? I won't be offended. Randall R. Gregory NW AR PS Ihave some cherry burl I need to contact some folks about. SORRY mycomputercrashed recently and lost everything. Please email me if still interested.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Alternate Bamboo Since the list is slow I'll ask a question that I know has come up beforebut it only recently hit home. A local home store is closing and Inoticed they have several stocks of bamboo for sale, very cheap. It is agolden color with good node spacing and it looked to have good powerfibers.Cross section it looked to me just like tonkin cane. So do you guysthink its worth my time to buy a few sticks or should I just leave itthere?Thanks,C.R. Adams from robert.kope@prodigy.net Sun May 20 23:47:04 2001 f4L4l3S03219 f4L4l3b208514;Mon, 21 May 2001 00:47:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo It may very well be Tonkin cane. There's a lot of Tonkin cane produced, andonly a very small percentage goes into bamboo rods. About 5 years ago,before I got into building fly rods, I bought a stick of bamboo at a localhome store that was going out of business. I think I paid $3.00 for it.I'm pretty sure that it's Tonkin cane, about 1 1/2 inch in diameter withgood power fibers, decent node spacing, and no blemishes. However, I'venever been tempted to build a rod from it - it's only 6' long and smalldiameter. For the investment of my time and all the components that gointoa rod, I'm more than happy to spend a few extra bucks to get the best cane Ican. Bamboo is the cheapest component in a rod, why skimp? -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Alternate Bamboo Since the list is slow I'll ask a question that I know has come up beforebut it only recently hit home. A local home store is closing and Inoticed they have several stocks of bamboo for sale, very cheap. It is agolden color with good node spacing and it looked to have good powerfibers.Cross section it looked to me just like tonkin cane. So do you guysthink its worth my time to buy a few sticks or should I just leave itthere?Thanks,C.R. Adams from robert.kope@prodigy.net Mon May 21 00:05:24 2001 f4L55OS03700 f4L55Eb166056;Mon, 21 May 2001 01:05:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Harry, I've experienced the same thing. I have always attributed it to my practiceof keeping splines in a PVC tube with desiccant after heat treating untilthey're glued up. I assumed that the bamboo absorbs moisture after theferrules are mounted and this causes the male to swell slightly. However,at the Northwest Bamboo Rodmakers gathering a couple of weeks ago A. J.Thramer mentioned that he cuts his ferrule stations about .002" oversizeandthen heats the ferrules to mount them. I would think this would have muchgreater effect than absorbing moisture from the air. If anyone has an explanation as to why ferrules get tight in the firstcouple of months after mounting, I'd also like to hear it. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Don,I know I'm coming in late on this, but I have similar problems. Itseems tome that almost every ferrule I use works well -- at first. For a month orso,the ferrules are just right. But within about 60 days, either the malegrows orthe female shrinks. I've got no explanation that satisfies me. I guessit'spossible (though doubtful) that moisture re-enters the cane until itacclimateswith its surroundings, and the cane "grows" as a result, forcing the maleto fitmore tightly.My suggestion for your problem would be some 4/0 or 6/0 steel woolwrappedaround a slightly undersized dowel and twisted into the female. I alwayssteelwool the females quite thoroughly to get rid of any excess solder andflux, thenclean with naptha.If you figure this one out, please let us know what you learn, Harry Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Inboth cases, the males were lapped and slid easily into the females. Therodhad been assembled & taken apart a number of times. And then, forsomereason, the female seems to shrink by the formation of a rough spot inthefemale ferrule barrel. Lapping the male round doesn't fix the trouble asthe female has a rough spot. The mouth of the female appears to besmoothand with as good a look as I can get down the female, it appears to havenorough spots. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd --> http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from mgjanik@yahoo.com Mon May 21 01:04:53 2001 f4L64qS04907 2001 23:04:55 PDT Subject: Tru-Oil and Gorilla Glue 990425095=:78271" --0-1804289383-990425095=:78271 If all goes well, I should be finishing my first rod, a Driggs River Special, withina week and a half. Since I do not have a dip set-up yet (nor will I have thescratch to build one with for a few months) I have decided to try a handrubbed Tru-Oil finish. Can anyone on the list give me a few pointers as tohow to get decent results with this product? I figure I can always give it acoat of spar when I get the dip apparatus built. I am also considering using Gorilla Glue to glue up my blank. I searched thearchives and didn't really find the kind of answers I was looking for. Any tipsand info that those who use this product could give would be greatlyappreciated! (I also have Epon in reserve if GG gets a bad review.) As always, thanks! Mike ---------------------------------Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions $2 Million Sweepstakes - Got something to sell?--0-1804289383-990425095=:78271 If all goes well, I should be finishing my first rod, a Driggs River Special, have the scratch to build one with for a few months) I have decided to try a searched the archives and didn't really find the kind of answers I was looking review.) As always, thanks!MikeDo You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions $2 MillionSweepstakes - Got something to sell?--0-1804289383-990425095=:78271-- from dickay@alltel.net Mon May 21 07:11:18 2001 f4LCBGT00615 srv.alltel.net Mon, 21 May 2001 07:03:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles List, As an experiment, why not measure the diameter of the male ferrulesafter they are mounted and fitted to the female. This measurement can berecorded on your record sheet for the rod. When the ferrule gets tightremeasure it and see if it has grown. A simple step that could provide usall with alot of information.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Harry, I've experienced the same thing. I have always attributed it to mypracticeof keeping splines in a PVC tube with desiccant after heat treating untilthey're glued up. I assumed that the bamboo absorbs moisture after theferrules are mounted and this causes the male to swell slightly. However,at the Northwest Bamboo Rodmakers gathering a couple of weeks ago A. J.Thramer mentioned that he cuts his ferrule stations about .002" oversizeandthen heats the ferrules to mount them. I would think this would have muchgreater effect than absorbing moisture from the air. If anyone has an explanation as to why ferrules get tight in the firstcouple of months after mounting, I'd also like to hear it. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Cc: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:21 PMSubject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Don,I know I'm coming in late on this, but I have similar problems. Itseems tome that almost every ferrule I use works well -- at first. For a monthorso,the ferrules are just right. But within about 60 days, either the malegrows orthe female shrinks. I've got no explanation that satisfies me. I guessit'spossible (though doubtful) that moisture re-enters the cane until itacclimateswith its surroundings, and the cane "grows" as a result, forcing themaleto fitmore tightly.My suggestion for your problem would be some 4/0 or 6/0 steel woolwrappedaround a slightly undersized dowel and twisted into the female. Ialwayssteelwool the females quite thoroughly to get rid of any excess solder andflux, thenclean with naptha.If you figure this one out, please let us know what you learn, Harry Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: ferrule.Inboth cases, the males were lapped and slid easily into the females.Therodhad been assembled & taken apart a number of times. And then, forsomereason, the female seems to shrink by the formation of a rough spot inthefemale ferrule barrel. Lapping the male round doesn't fix the troubleasthe female has a rough spot. The mouth of the female appears to besmoothand with as good a look as I can get down the female, it appears tohavenorough spots. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from beadman@mac.com Mon May 21 07:27:54 2001 f4LCRrT01116 Subject: Tool Recall Forwarded for info - some of you may be using hot glue guns...Claude ------Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:57:07 -0400From: Angela Pompey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U)X-Accept-Language: en,pdf Subject: News from CPSC - 1 Recall May 15, 2001 CPSC Contact: Ken GilesRelease # 01-153 (301) 504-0580 Ext. 1184 CPSC, Sears Announce Recall of Glue Gun WASHINGTON, D.C. - In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product SafetyCommission (CPSC), Sears Roebuck and Co., of Hoffman Estates, Ill., isvoluntarily recalling about 13,000 Craftsman glue guns. These glue guns can overheat, presenting fire and burn hazards to consumers. CPSC and Sears have not received any reports of injuries. This recallis being conducted in order to prevent the possibility of injuries.The recalled glue guns were sold in Sears Craftsman Instant-On BonderKits, and included glue sticks, a silicone mat, and a black plasticcase. The glue gun is black with a red trigger, and bears the Craftsman logo on one side. The other side has a label which reads in part,"Craftsman Glue Gun 526.804420" and "Caution: Nozzle and Glue Can CauseBurns." Sears, Orchard Supply and QVC sold the glue guns nationwide from October 2000 through March 2001 for approximately $20. Consumers should stop using the glue guns immediately and returnthem to the place of purchase or their nearest Sears store for a fullrefund. For more information, consumers also can call the manufacturer, Adhesive Technologies Inc. toll-free at (800) 458-3486 anytime. To see a picture of the recalled product(s) and/or to establish a link from yourweb site to this press release on CPSC's web site, link to the followingaddress: http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01153.html. TheU.S. ConsumerProduct Safety Commission protects the public from unreasonable risks ofinjuryor death from 15,000 types of consumer products under the agency'sjurisdiction.To report a dangerous product or a product-related injury, call CPSC'shotline at(800) 638-2772 or CPSC's teletypewriter at (800) 638-8270, or visitCPSC's website at http://www.cpsc.gov/talk.html. For information on CPSC'sfax-on-demandservice, call the above numbers or visit the web site athttp://cpsc.gov/about/who.html. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon May 21 08:02:09 2001 f4LD28T02150 Mon, 21 May 2001 06:02:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Randall,I can't say that I even thought about any differences. What I remember isthat I thought the rod was gorgeous, and you thought it was only okay. And Ialso remember that it cast very well. Seems like I got it out to 75-80 feet.Not bad for a 7.5' 5 weight.I'll chime in and agree with someone else's opinion... I suspect that thisrod was Tonkin cane, you just didn't know it. I've used some local cane,grownabout a mile from my house, for several strips. It isn't at all suited forrodmaking. In my opinion, good bamboo is readily available from Demarestandother US sources. Why should we use anything we aren't completely certainwillproduce a good rod? Harry Randall Gregory wrote: I have a rod that I made out of non-tonkin that I like the action of verymuch. The cane had growers marks but was great for practice when I firststarted. Still got a bale of it.Nice prices, guy still has plenty. HarryBoyd cast this rod on the river at the roundup. Harry could you tell anymajor differences? from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon May 21 08:04:27 2001 f4LD4QT02252 Mon, 21 May 2001 06:04:13 -0700 rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Dick,I'll definitely do that. But remember, we're talking about a difference insize of less than a ten-thousandth of an inch. In all likelihood, much less.Not easy to consistently measure tolerances that close with hand tools... Harry Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: List, As an experiment, why not measure the diameter of the maleferrulesafter they are mounted and fitted to the female. from owen@davies.mv.com Mon May 21 08:17:01 2001 f4LDH1T03223 Subject: Bizarre problem, off-topic but list-related Outlook Express is listing my name as the author ofall the e-mail I've received this morning. This would notmuch concern me--I don't expect much better fromMicrosoft products--but our local mail server has justnotified me that the rodmakers list refused my e-mailbecause it doesn't accept messages with attachments.I hadn't sent any. So I do hope no one else is sufferingbecause my system appears to have gone insane. Does anyone recognize in this the symptoms of avirus? I'm careful enough so that this would be thefirst I'd ever caught, but it's not impossible. Owen Davies from beadman@mac.com Mon May 21 08:29:15 2001 f4LDTET03875 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo At 8:01 AM -0500 on 5/21/01, Harry Boyd wrote about Re: AlternateBamboo ...I'll chime in and agree with someone else's opinion... I suspect that thisrod was Tonkin cane, you just didn't know it. I've used some local cane, grownabout a mile from my house, for several strips. It isn't at all suited forrodmaking. In my opinion, good bamboo is readily available from Demarestandother US sources. Why should we use anything we aren't completely certain willproduce a good rod? Harry, if we didn't try something else now and then, we'd still be chipping arrowheads out of flint and fishing with spears...or maybe greenheart and horsehair . Actually, it surprises me that someone living in a warm moist climate such as somewhere along the gulf coast , hasn't tried to use some of the modern botanical methods to grow an improved version of Tonkin - say with greater density of power fibers, smaller and more closely-spaced power fibers, faster-growing with less nodes, etc. Hmmmm, there's an idea: someone at LSU or maybe Ol' Miss could put in for a research grant to try growing Tonkin on the Space Station to see how it would react to micro-gravity conditions... Claude from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 21 08:49:00 2001 f4LDmxT04858 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo --=====================_1627597==_.ALT While a nice thought (I LIKE it!), there are several problems with thisrecommendation. To enhance the anatomy of Arundinaria amablilis, one mustdealwith the genetics and/or the physiology/ecology of the plant. The latter CANbedealt with if one grows large enough (huge) populations under a broaddiversityof conditions to determine what range of variation can be expressed in theplants. If one of the growth conditions is superior and produces the desiredproduct, you are in business. However, this likely will be identical/similarto its "native" habitat, so you likely may have done a lot of work for nothing.Indeed, the immensity of this project, alone, would be tremendous andrequireyears of documentation and the associated expense to go along with it to getitright.If approaching it from the genetics angle, i.e. cross hybridizing the "better"plants,obtaining seed, growing seed into adult plants and cloning the products from the latter, one is likely talking even a greater investment in both time(a huge amount) and in funding. Genetically engineering the proper plantwouldeven be greater. To sell NSF or NIH on the idea of growing a better producttomake bamboo rods might bring smiles, at the least. Now, if it offered a cure Viagra,produce a remedy for arthritis, you might receive at least a moment'sconsideration, and an immense amount of lobbying against it frompharmaceuticalcompanies.However, never one to inhibit entrepreneurship, I say go for it.Jerry Snider At 09:28 AM 05/21/2001 -0400, Claude Freaner wrote:At 8:01 AM -0500 on 5/21/01, Harry Boyd wrote about Re: AlternateBamboo ...I'll chime in and agree with someone else's opinion... I suspect that thisrod was Tonkin cane, you just didn't know it. I've used some local cane, grownabout a mile from my house, for several strips. It isn't at all suited forrodmaking. In my opinion, good bamboo is readily available from Demarestandother US sources. Why should we use anything we aren't completely certain willproduce a good rod? Harry, if we didn't try something else now and then, we'd still be chipping arrowheads out of flint and fishing with spears...or maybe greenheart and horsehair . Actually, it surprises me that someone living in a warm moist climate such as somewhere along the gulf coast , hasn't tried to use some of the modern botanical methods to grow an improved version of Tonkin - say with greater density of power fibers, smaller and more closely-spaced power fibers, faster-growing with less nodes, etc. Hmmmm, there's an idea: someone at LSU or maybe Ol' Miss could put in for a research grant to try growing Tonkin on the Space Station to see how it would react to micro-gravity conditions... Claude --=====================_1627597==_.ALT While a nice thought (I LIKE it!), there are several problems with thisrecommendation. To enhance the anatomy of Arundinaria amablilis,one must deal with the genetics and/or the physiology/ecology of theplant. The latter CAN be dealt with if one grows large enough (huge)populations under a broad diversity of conditions to determine what rangeof variation can be expressed in the plants. If one of the growthconditions is superior and produces the desired product, you are in "native" habitat, so you likely may have done a lot of work fornothing. Indeed, the immensity of this project, alone, would betremendous and require years of documentation and the associated expenseto go along with it to get it right.If approaching it from the genetics angle, i.e. cross hybridizing the"better" plants,obtaining seed, growing seed into adult plantsand cloning the products from the latter, one is likely talking even a Genetically engineering the proper plant would even be greater. To sellNSF or NIH on the idea of growing a better product to make bamboo rodsmight bring smiles, at the least. Now, if it offered a cure forparticular cancers, produced a natural substance that might replaceViagra, produce a remedy for arthritis, you might receive at least amoment's consideration, and an immense amount of lobbying against it frompharmaceutical companies.However, never one to inhibit entrepreneurship, I say go for it.Jerry Snider At 09:28 AM 05/21/2001 -0400, Claude Freaner wrote: Bamboo some local all suited for from Demarest and completely some put --=====================_1627597==_.ALT-- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon May 21 08:50:08 2001 f4LDo8T04901 Subject: [Fwd: Alternate Bamboo] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 263DA44D7386F34F5566E318 Here is a message that Daryl wrote way back in November of 1999. Iremember sending him a message later asking how the rod turned out andhis reply was basically that although it built a rod, it wasn't nearlyas "stiff" as Tonkin is. I guess it made a really "whippy" rod (forlack of a better term).-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm --------------263DA44D7386F34F5566E318 Subject: Alternate Bamboo I sitting here looking at a huge Moso culm. It is 10 ft. long and4 1/2 inches in diameter. Wall thickness is 1/2 inch. Power fibers,well, power fibers are a problem. Depending on how you want todefine power fibers depends on how good you would rate them. I would say the power fibers are 3/16 of an inch thick. Others Ithink would say they are 1/16 to 1/8. In any case the outside1/16th has as small and densely packed power fibers as I'veever seen. More so than any of the Tonkin that I own. But there are fibers all the way through the "pith". I put the word pith in quotes because it's not soft like I'm used to seeing. The "pith"is hard, like wood. Node spacing could be a problem. Atthe base they are 9 inches apart, and they go to 12 inches apart at the top. Splitting is a chore because it's so thick. It really takes some muscle, but I have managed to get 16 strips out of a quarter,so I might get 64 strips from this culm. It's interesting that splitsgo straight, with less tendency to wander. The color is straw yellow, an except for the differences in "pith"and the sheer size it works and planes like Tonkin. Stay tuned for what a rod made from this stuff is like. With myMorgan Handmill it doesn't take long to plane out 12 strips. Darryl Hayashida --------------263DA44D7386F34F5566E318-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon May 21 09:48:00 2001 f4LEm0T07890 Mon, 21 May 2001 07:47:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Claude, Thought about you yesterday as we drove through the Stennis SpaceCenter onI-10. Even mentioned it to my wife and daughter. They were dulyunimpressed thatI knew someone who had worked there. :-) Betcha you'll figure out the tune------ Don't know much about that NASA stuff,Don't know much about the French I took.But I do know 'bout LSU,And if you checked you'd know it too. Tried to grow some great Bamboo.Down around a town called Opelou (Opelousas, Louisiana - northern boundsofCajun country)Chinese cane just grew and grew. If it made good rods, you see,What a wonderful world this would be. Tried to grow the Tonkin stuff at an LSU agricultural center designatedforsugar cane research. My experiment station friends here in our churchlooked upthe results for me. It grew well, but never quite produced what we werelookingfor. There are still a few plots of Aru. Am. growing here in Louisiana. But itain't the same stuff. At least we tried. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: At 8:01 AM -0500 on 5/21/01, Harry Boyd wrote about Re: AlternateBamboo Actually, it surprises me that someone living in a warm moist climatesuch as somewhere along the gulf coast , hasn't tried to use someof the modern botanical methods to grow an improved version of Tonkin- say with greater density of power fibers, smaller and moreclosely-spaced power fibers, faster-growing with less nodes, etc.Hmmmm, there's an idea: someone at LSU or maybe Ol' Miss could putin for a research grant to try growing Tonkin on the Space Station tosee how it would react to micro-gravity conditions... Claude --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from beadman@mac.com Mon May 21 11:31:01 2001 f4LGV0T12225 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo At 9:44 AM -0500 on 5/21/01, Harry Boyd wrote about Re: AlternateBamboo Claude, Thought about you yesterday as we drove through the Stennis Space Center onI-10. Even mentioned it to my wife and daughter. They were duly unimpressed thatI knew someone who had worked there. :-) What? Not impressed??? I'm shocked!! Betcha you'll figure out the tune------ ...Very good! Tried to grow the Tonkin stuff at an LSU agricultural center designated forsugar cane research. My experiment station friends here in our church looked upthe results for me. It grew well, but never quite produced what we were lookingfor. There are still a few plots of Aru. Am. growing here in Louisiana. But itain't the same stuff. At least we tried. Must be something in the soil...Let's see, bamboo has a lot of silica, doesn't it? Maybe we could dump ground glass on...oh, well - never mind... The last time I was down in Williamsburg, VA, I noticed a large grove of bamboo growing behind the restaurant at the convention center - much of it looked to be around 3 to 5 inches thick and maybe 30-40 feet tall. I have no idea what variety it was, but it sure made me wonder... I was surprised it grew there, as the area does get occasional snow or freezing rain in the winter. Claude from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon May 21 12:41:14 2001 f4LHfDT14432 Mon, 21 May 2001 10:41:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Dick,I'll definitely do that. But remember, we're talking about a difference insize of about a ten-thousandth of an inch. In all likelihood, much less. Noteasy to consistently measure tolerances that close with hand tools... Harry Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: List, As an experiment, why not measure the diameter of the maleferrulesafter they are mounted and fitted to the female. from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Mon May 21 13:00:41 2001 f4LI0eT15052 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Claude.Years ago I picked up some cane at Jamestown Set. in Va. The Park grounds keepers had cut this cane down becouse it was crowding out a parking lot area. I asked for a few pieces and wound up with 10 sections that were 10' long and 3" round. According to records the cane was planted by the English back in the early 1600,s. The cane made a nice rod, felt like the early calcutta cane rods. The second rod I flamed to a dark brown and oven dried, but it was still whippy. Best Hal Bacon from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 21 13:28:42 2001 f4LISfT16466 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Sorry. I was out of order and apologize.J. Snider At 12:14 PM 05/21/2001 -0400, across@www.downandacross.com wrote:Hey doesn't bamboo solve depression and graphite addictions? Surely thatis valid reasoning to justify the expense. (Of course, there are the side effects...obsessive compulsive disorder and outright anal retentiveness!)Best regards,Bob Maulucci you wrote...Clipped...growing a better product tomake bamboo rods might bring smiles, at the least. Now, if it offered a cure Viagra,produce a remedy for arthritis, you might receive at least a moment'sconsideration, and an immense amount of lobbying against it frompharmaceuticalcompanies. --------------------------------------------------------------------Mail2Web - Check your email from the web athttp://www.mail2web.com/ . from beadman@mac.com Mon May 21 14:00:28 2001 f4LJ0RT17494 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo At 1:59 PM -0700 on 5/21/01, baconrod@gsmrinc.com wrote about Re: Alternate BambooYears ago I picked up some cane at Jamestown Set. in Va.The Park grounds keepers had cut this cane down becouse it wascrowding out a parking lot area. I asked for a few pieces and woundup with 10 sections that were 10' long and 3" round. According torecords the cane was planted by the English back in the early1600,s. The cane made a nice rod, felt like the early calcutta canerods. The second rod I flamed to a dark brown and oven dried, but itwas still whippy. Thanks, Hal - you bring up a question: what makes one piece of cane "whippy" and another "stiff", assuming both were made into the same taper/length of rod? I can see how differing amounts of heat-treating might cause one to become stiffer than the other, but it two different pieces of cane are treated exactly the same, what makes one stiffer than the other? Claude from owen@davies.mv.com Mon May 21 14:26:13 2001 f4LJQCT19158 Subject: Virus Alert! If anyone has managed to avoid it thus far, pleasedo not open any messages from me sent earliertoday. Seems I had my first virus in seven or eightyears on the Net. If it's from me, and there's anattachment, it's trouble. The good news is that the virus does not appearto be dangerous, just enormously annoying.Further good news is that the current update toNorton AntiVirus catches it. The bad news is that I've already had courteousnotes from people saying, "Unfortunately, that fileyou sent appears to have become corrupted, andit wouldn't open"--pretty much the reply I sent tothe guy whose machine sent it to me. It lookslike you are already infected. I do apologize to anyone who got hit with this.I'm pretty careful not to open attachments, but thishappened to arrive just after I'd asked for infothat might well have been sent in an attached file.It won't happen again. Owen Davies from bob@downandacross.com Mon May 21 15:10:33 2001 f4LKAVT20529 ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo --=====================_477952==_.ALT Jerry:I thought your comments were right on the mark. I was not making fun of you, I was having fun at the topics expense.Best regards,Bob At 02:30 PM 5/21/2001 -0400, Jerry Snider wrote:Sorry. I was out of order and apologize.J. Snider At 12:14 PM 05/21/2001 -0400, across@www.downandacross.com wrote:Hey doesn't bamboo solve depression and graphite addictions? Surely thatisvalid reasoning to justify the expense. (Of course, there are the sideeffects...obsessive compulsive disorder and outright anal retentiveness!)Best regards,Bob Maulucci you wrote...Clipped...growing a better product tomake bamboo rods might bring smiles, at the least. Now, if it offered acure Viagra,produce a remedy for arthritis, you might receive at least a moment'sconsideration, and an immense amount of lobbying against it frompharmaceuticalcompanies. --------------------------------------------------------------------Mail2Web - Check your email from the web athttp://www.mail2web.com/ . Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_477952==_.ALT Jerry:I thought your comments were right on the mark. I was not making fun ofyou, I was having fun at the topics expense.Best regards,BobAt 02:30 PM 5/21/2001 -0400, Jerry Snider wrote:Sorry. I was out of order andapologize.J. SniderAt 12:14 PM 05/21/2001 -0400, across@www.downandacross.comwrote: that is side retentiveness!) a cure replaceViagra, moment's frompharmaceutical . Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_477952==_.ALT-- from horsesho@ptd.net Mon May 21 15:14:09 2001 f4LKE8T20738 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles I find it hard to believe that the cane through moisture absorbtion wouldswell theferrule. I think the problem lies with the oxidization of the female slide. Marty Harry Boyd wrote: Dick,I'll definitely do that. But remember, we're talking about a difference insize of about a ten-thousandth of an inch. In all likelihood, much less. Noteasy to consistently measure tolerances that close with hand tools... Harry Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: List, As an experiment, why not measure the diameter of the maleferrulesafter they are mounted and fitted to the female. from bob@downandacross.com Mon May 21 15:53:16 2001 f4LKrET22028 May 2001 16:53:12 -0400 Subject: Digger Video --=====================_3058992==_.ALT Just wanted to say that I got the "Digger: Portrait of Bamboo Fly Rod Maker" from Darrell this week, and it is really a nicely done piece. Short at 30+ minutes, but Digger's style is truly charming. Even my 2.5 year old shouted out, "Oh! BAMBOO Daddy!"I just wondered about a few things that the video did not explain. 1. What did he use to heat treat? He mentions cooking at 350* for an hour, but they do not show the oven. 2. Also, they skip the straightening. How did he do it? 3. I read in Ron Barch's article on Digger, that he used nitrogen to eliminate moisture. How did he do that? Wow. I am now fascinated by Mr. Degere, I need more. Please?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_3058992==_.ALT Just wanted to say that I got the "Digger: Portrait of Bamboo FlyRod Maker" from Darrell this week, and it is really a nicely donepiece. Short at 30+ minutes, but Digger's style is truly charming. Evenmy 2.5 year old shouted out, "Oh! BAMBOO Daddy!"I just wondered about a few things that the video did not explain. 1.What did he use to heat treat? He mentions cooking at 350* for an hour,but they do not show the oven. 2. Also, they skip the straightening. Howdid he do it? 3. I read in Ron Barch's article on Digger, that he used fascinated by Mr. Degere, I need more. Please?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_3058992==_.ALT-- from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon May 21 16:09:41 2001 f4LL9eT22714 OAA24295; Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Claude wrote: I can see how differing amounts ofheat-treating might cause one to become stiffer than the other, butit two different pieces of cane are treated exactly the same, whatmakes one stiffer than the other? Assuming the samples would be equal in dimensions, I would guess thatdifferences in the material's Modulus of Elasticity is what does it.I'm not a mechanical engineer, but to bend something, one side of thesample has to lengthen since the outside of a curve is longer than themiddle, if you follow. The other side has to compress. If the materialhas a high Modulus of Elasticity (tensile strength?), it resistslengthening and hence is "stiff", assuming it equally can resist thecompressive forces on the other side. Implied, then, is that the power fibers of one one sample have higherModulus of Elasticity than the other. But why are the fibers different? I dunno - not a botany type, either! just my 2 cents - mac from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon May 21 16:15:31 2001 f4LLFUT23059 2001 14:15:30 PDT Subject: gordon koppin gordon, are you on the list? timothy troester ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from Dennishigham@cs.com Mon May 21 16:23:57 2001 f4LLNtT23381 Subject: Re: Digger Video Bob,Digger had access to large ovens at his place of work. He could heat treat an entire culm before splitting. He also had access to a "special" oven that he could pump out the air and replace it with nitrogen during heat treating. Digger felt that he could lock in some/most of the nitrogen and get lighter and more moisture resistant bamboo.I don't know about his straightening technique.I got to cast two of the nitrogen treated rods (he made ,I think, 5)..I don't know if they were lighter but boy were they fast!I got this from a conversation with Fred Moran last fall. Contact Fred for more info on Digger. Ron Barch has Diggers last rods for sale. Best, Dennis from stpete@netten.net Mon May 21 16:48:36 2001 f4LLmZT24336 Mon, 21 May 2001 16:48:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre problem, off-topic but list-related Owen, perhaps I am just too fortunate ( Oh, Ye Computer Spirits of theNetherwire, spare me though I venture to make this boastful statement!)but I use Netscape Communicator and have NEVER gotten the nasty bugsthat seem to plague Outlook Express users. Is this the experience of other Netscape users? Am I missing some super features of Outlook Express that makes thatsoftware worth risking the vunerability of my hard drive? The only virus I have ever caught was dragged into my system from my sonwho loves to download those Japanese animation series that are sopopular (Dragonball Z, etc.) Rick C. Owen Davies wrote: Outlook Express is listing my name as the author ofall the e-mail I've received this morning. This would notmuch concern me--I don't expect much better fromMicrosoft products--but our local mail server has justnotified me that the rodmakers list refused my e-mailbecause it doesn't accept messages with attachments.I hadn't sent any. So I do hope no one else is sufferingbecause my system appears to have gone insane. Does anyone recognize in this the symptoms of avirus? I'm careful enough so that this would be thefirst I'd ever caught, but it's not impossible. Owen Davies from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon May 21 17:44:57 2001 f4LMivT26307 Mon, 21 May 2001 15:44:51 -0700 Mon, 21 May 2001 15:43:53 -0700Content-Class: urn:content- classes:message MHotMailBCD2D58600B64004204DCF2EC1DD061C10; Mon May 21 14:39:232001 May 2001 14:32:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Alternate BambooReferences: FILETIME=[99886870:01C0E23D] Claude wrote: I can see how differing amounts ofheat-treating might cause one to become stiffer than the other, butit two different pieces of cane are treated exactly the same, whatmakes one stiffer than the other? Assuming the samples would be equal in dimensions, I would guess thatdifferences in the material's Modulus of Elasticity is what does it.I'm not a mechanical engineer, but to bend something, one side of thesample has to lengthen since the outside of a curve is longer than themiddle, if you follow. The other side has to compress. If the materialhas a high Modulus of Elasticity (tensile strength?), it resistslengthening and hence is "stiff", assuming it equally can resist thecompressive forces on the other side. Implied, then, is that the power fibers of one one sample have higherModulus of Elasticity than the other. But why are the fibers different? I dunno - not a botany type, either! just my 2 cents - mac from thogan@rochester.rr.com Mon May 21 19:49:29 2001 f4M0nTT28204 f4M0le809681 Subject: Reel Seat Spacers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Does anyone have any good articles on making your own wooden reel seat =spacers?I have only seen round or oval, but I have heard of people making =hexagonal as well. Thankstaylor Does anyone have any good articles on= own wooden reel seat spacers?I have only seen round or oval, but I = people making hexagonal as well.Any info would be appreciated. = Thankstaylor from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon May 21 19:53:56 2001 f4M0rtT28436 0400 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Last year (Feb 2000) I personally picked and cut some bamboo while in thePhilippines visiting my wife's relatives. This cane has some great powerfibers (somewhat similar to Tonkin). The only difference I can see is thatthe nodal areas are different. The Philippine cane has one major hump andone smaller one. Since I build nodeless then would be of no consequence tome. This cane has been air drying since then, and next week my father in lawwill be cutting the nodes out and sending at least three culms (numberedsections) to me here. It will probably take about 2-3 months to get here.One culm has been promised to my nodeless mentor. I will be willing toshare pieces of this with anyone that would like. All I need is enough tobuild one rod for testing. I brought back some pieces last February assouvenirs and the two rodmakers that I let have some remarked that itseemedreal close to Calcutta cane. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from channer@frontier.net Mon May 21 20:16:31 2001 f4M1GUT29053 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Guys;You can beat this topic to death, but the facts remain that H-I andprobalby other companies as well)spent thousands of dollars trying togrow bamboo domestically instead of importing it from China and couldn'tget the job done, so I really don't think there is much point in it.Call it done and let it go.John Harry Boyd wrote: Randall,I can't say that I even thought about any differences. What I rememberisthat I thought the rod was gorgeous, and you thought it was only okay. And Ialso remember that it cast very well. Seems like I got it out to 75-80feet.Not bad for a 7.5' 5 weight.I'll chime in and agree with someone else's opinion... I suspect that thisrod was Tonkin cane, you just didn't know it. I've used some local cane,grownabout a mile from my house, for several strips. It isn't at all suited forrodmaking. In my opinion, good bamboo is readily available from Demarestandother US sources. Why should we use anything we aren't completelycertain willproduce a good rod? Harry Randall Gregory wrote: I have a rod that I made out of non-tonkin that I like the action of verymuch. The cane had growers marks but was great for practice when Ifirststarted. Still got a bale of it.Nice prices, guy still has plenty. HarryBoyd cast this rod on the river at the roundup. Harry could you tell anymajor differences? from martinj@aa.net Mon May 21 20:36:58 2001 f4M1avT29456 Mon, 21 May 2001 18:36:44 -0700 Subject: RE: Bizarre problem, off-topic but list-related Outlook Express and Outlook are the favorite target of virus writers becauseof all the features that Microsoft puts in them. Unfortunately all thefeatures that make the application easier to use, are exploited by the viruswriters, effectively stopping all the features from being used at all! Someof the patches put out by Microsoft to counteract the problems have madetheapplications "almost" unusable in some situations. They also, are by far,the most common email programs used, so a good one to target on if youwantto write a virus to effect lots of people. I mean look, who'd write a virus Mac users....) Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bizarre problem, off-topic but list-related Owen, perhaps I am just too fortunate ( Oh, Ye Computer Spirits of theNetherwire, spare me though I venture to make this boastful statement!)but I use Netscape Communicator and have NEVER gotten the nasty bugsthat seem to plague Outlook Express users. Is this the experience of other Netscape users? Am I missing some super features of Outlook Express that makes thatsoftware worth risking the vunerability of my hard drive? The only virus I have ever caught was dragged into my system from my sonwho loves to download those Japanese animation series that are sopopular (Dragonball Z, etc.) Rick C. Owen Davies wrote: Outlook Express is listing my name as the author ofall the e-mail I've received this morning. This would notmuch concern me--I don't expect much better fromMicrosoft products--but our local mail server has justnotified me that the rodmakers list refused my e-mailbecause it doesn't accept messages with attachments.I hadn't sent any. So I do hope no one else is sufferingbecause my system appears to have gone insane. Does anyone recognize in this the symptoms of avirus? I'm careful enough so that this would be thefirst I'd ever caught, but it's not impossible. Owen Davies from bob@downandacross.com Mon May 21 21:01:59 2001 f4M20pT00109 Subject: Re: Reel Seat Spacers --=====================_21511077==_.ALT The January and April Power Fibers contain articles on reel seat making from Bob Nunley and Gary Dabrowski respectively. It's free, so I hope this does not breech the non-commercial aspects of the list. Enjoy. http://www.powerfibers.com Best regards,Bob At 08:48 PM 5/21/2001 -0400, taylor hogan wrote:Does anyone have any good articles on making your own wooden reel seat spacers?I have only seen round or oval, but I have heard of people making hexagonal as well.Any info would be appreciated.Thankstaylor Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_21511077==_.ALT The January and April Power Fibers contain articles on reel seat making from Bob Nunley and Gary Dabrowski respectively. It's free, so I hopethis does not breech the non-commercial aspects of the list. Enjoy.http://www.powerfibers.comBest regards,BobAt 08:48 PM 5/21/2001 -0400, taylor hogan wrote:Doesanyone have any good articles on making your own wooden reel seatspacers?I have only seen round or oval, but I haveheard of people making hexagonal as well.Any info would be appreciated. Thankstaylor Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_21511077==_.ALT-- from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon May 21 23:18:37 2001 f4M4IaT02441 (207.103.93.245) Subject: Followup on Loctite I was interested in the post on using loctite (green) in place of solder onferrules. What I was wondering was can it be used to glue in moisture capsreplacing solder?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue May 22 07:52:41 2001 f4MCqeT07610 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Obviously I stand corrected.J. Snider At 09:44 AM 05/21/2001 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Claude, Thought about you yesterday as we drove through the Stennis SpaceCenter onI-10. Even mentioned it to my wife and daughter. They were duly unimpressed thatI knew someone who had worked there. :-) Betcha you'll figure out the tune------ Don't know much about that NASA stuff,Don't know much about the French I took.But I do know 'bout LSU,And if you checked you'd know it too. Tried to grow some great Bamboo.Down around a town called Opelou (Opelousas, Louisiana - northernbounds ofCajun country)Chinese cane just grew and grew. If it made good rods, you see,What a wonderful world this would be. Tried to grow the Tonkin stuff at an LSU agricultural centerdesignated forsugar cane research. My experiment station friends here in our church looked upthe results for me. It grew well, but never quite produced what we were lookingfor. There are still a few plots of Aru. Am. growing here in Louisiana. But itain't the same stuff. At least we tried. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: At 8:01 AM -0500 on 5/21/01, Harry Boyd wrote about Re: AlternateBamboo Actually, it surprises me that someone living in a warm moist climatesuch as somewhere along the gulf coast , hasn't tried to use someof the modern botanical methods to grow an improved version of Tonkin- say with greater density of power fibers, smaller and moreclosely-spaced power fibers, faster-growing with less nodes, etc.Hmmmm, there's an idea: someone at LSU or maybe Ol' Miss could putin for a research grant to try growing Tonkin on the Space Station tosee how it would react to micro-gravity conditions... Claude --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from harms1@pa.net Tue May 22 08:04:09 2001 f4MD48T08132 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo All, I'm wondering why one could not simply adjust the taper dimensionsupward for a given rod to compensate for the "whippier" action of some ofthe alternate bamboos that have been discussed recently. Isn't that whatwe do to obtain the desired power for a rod in any case? Might .005"-.006"per station do the trick--as if we were just advancing one line-weight? Ofcourse, it is possible that this might produce a heavier rod than the Tonkincounterpart (due to increased cross-sectional mass), butit is also possible that the alternate cane rod wouldn't be heavier at all(less density through those cross-sections). Who knows? No doubt, this would have to be a trial-and-error process, and probablywould not be of interest to builders who prefer to rely on established,computer- driven stress curves. But for the rest of us(mathematically-challanged) clods, if we happen to run across some localbamboo of promising-but- unknown quality, why not experiment a little? Thisis a hobby for most of us, isn't it? The cost of good Tonkin cane is notexhorbitant, it's true, but it would seem to be fun to try some of thealternative bamboos that come along from time to time. Out behind my home, here in southcentral Pennsylvania, I planted a few smallstands of "Rubromarginata," "Vivax, "Congesta," "Nuda," "Aureolsulcata" and"Nigra." These should produce mature culms in perhaps another five yearsorso, and will probably turn out to be good for decorative landscaping only.All of these are "Phyllostachys" and not "Arundinaria," so the culms willhave larger nodes and also the characteristic groove between nodes-- andthatmeans less usable cane form a stick. But, so what? I don't intend torevolutionize the industry. I chose these species because of their hardiness in temperate climates andalso for their reputation as good "wood." So who knows, I also may be ableto build a decent rod from some of it. I'm going to give it a try, anyhow. Sometimes I think we get a little too hide-bound in our reliance onmathematical formulas, computer programs and proven techniques ormaterials.Certainly nothing wrong with any of that stuff (I use it all myself), butit's a big world and there is a lot of enjoyment to be had in just messingaround with the many possibilities "out there." Consider, for instance,some of Tom Smithwick's little projects. There's his wrapping machine.It's an astonishingly simple, cobbled-up, low-tech mess--but one that doesits job perfectly. Or his "poor-man's quad," which would seem to make noengineering sense at all (you don't even use a planing form or wrappingmachine), but which also turns out to be a wonderful rod. Or the "spiralglue-up," which results in a more powerful rod than its "straight"counterpart for reasons that many builders have argued about, but nonehaveresolved. And so on, and so on. cheers, and have fun,Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Last year (Feb 2000) I personally picked and cut some bamboo while in thePhilippines visiting my wife's relatives. This cane has some great powerfibers (somewhat similar to Tonkin). The only difference I can see isthatthe nodal areas are different. The Philippine cane has one major hump andone smaller one. Since I build nodeless then would be of no consequencetome. This cane has been air drying since then, and next week my father in lawwill be cutting the nodes out and sending at least three culms (numberedsections) to me here. It will probably take about 2-3 months to get here.One culm has been promised to my nodeless mentor. I will be willing toshare pieces of this with anyone that would like. All I need is enough tobuild one rod for testing. I brought back some pieces last February assouvenirs and the two rodmakers that I let have some remarked that itseemedreal close to Calcutta cane. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue May 22 08:12:34 2001 f4MDCXT08729 Subject: WAY off topic, Camper Bed Bottoms. We've just purchased a pop-up camper. The bottoms of the pull-out bedsare "raw" plywood. Would anyone out there recommend giving them a coator two of varnish? I'm just thinking that it would protect them frommoisture from the weather. Any opinions?-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from caneman@clnk.com Tue May 22 08:32:39 2001 f4MDWcT10097 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: WAY off topic, Camper Bed Bottoms. Todd,I have a 1978 Coleman Pop-Up and it still has the original plywood underthe pull-out beds. It isn't coated with anything and it's still goingstrong after 23 years. I wouldn't worry about it. Just be sure that if youcamp in the rain in it, to be sure to set it up on the first good dry dayand let the canvas dry out really well and it'll last forever. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: WAY off topic, Camper Bed Bottoms. We've just purchased a pop-up camper. The bottoms of the pull-out bedsare "raw" plywood. Would anyone out there recommend giving them a coator two of varnish? I'm just thinking that it would protect them frommoisture from the weather. Any opinions?--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 22 08:38:46 2001 f4MDcjT10510 Subject: RE: Alternate Bamboo Bill, now you're just teasing us newbies. "Poor man's quad", "spiralglue-up"? Us young 'uns never heard those stories. Will I find them in thearchives? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo All, I'm wondering why one could not simply adjust the taper dimensionsupward for a given rod to compensate for the "whippier" action of some ofthe alternate bamboos that have been discussed recently. Isn't that whatwe do to obtain the desired power for a rod in any case? Might .005"-.006"per station do the trick--as if we were just advancing one line-weight? Ofcourse, it is possible that this might produce a heavier rod than the Tonkincounterpart (due to increased cross-sectional mass), butit is also possible that the alternate cane rod wouldn't be heavier at all(less density through those cross-sections). Who knows? No doubt, this would have to be a trial-and-error process, and probablywould not be of interest to builders who prefer to rely on established,computer- driven stress curves. But for the rest of us(mathematically-challanged) clods, if we happen to run across some localbamboo of promising-but- unknown quality, why not experiment a little? Thisis a hobby for most of us, isn't it? The cost of good Tonkin cane is notexhorbitant, it's true, but it would seem to be fun to try some of thealternative bamboos that come along from time to time. Out behind my home, here in southcentral Pennsylvania, I planted a few smallstands of "Rubromarginata," "Vivax, "Congesta," "Nuda," "Aureolsulcata" and"Nigra." These should produce mature culms in perhaps another five yearsorso, and will probably turn out to be good for decorative landscaping only.All of these are "Phyllostachys" and not "Arundinaria," so the culms willhave larger nodes and also the characteristic groove between nodes-- andthatmeans less usable cane form a stick. But, so what? I don't intend torevolutionize the industry. I chose these species because of their hardiness in temperate climates andalso for their reputation as good "wood." So who knows, I also may be ableto build a decent rod from some of it. I'm going to give it a try, anyhow. Sometimes I think we get a little too hide-bound in our reliance onmathematical formulas, computer programs and proven techniques ormaterials.Certainly nothing wrong with any of that stuff (I use it all myself), butit's a big world and there is a lot of enjoyment to be had in just messingaround with the many possibilities "out there." Consider, for instance,some of Tom Smithwick's little projects. There's his wrapping machine.It's an astonishingly simple, cobbled-up, low-tech mess--but one that doesits job perfectly. Or his "poor-man's quad," which would seem to make noengineering sense at all (you don't even use a planing form or wrappingmachine), but which also turns out to be a wonderful rod. Or the "spiralglue-up," which results in a more powerful rod than its "straight"counterpart for reasons that many builders have argued about, but nonehaveresolved. And so on, and so on. cheers, and have fun,Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Last year (Feb 2000) I personally picked and cut some bamboo while in thePhilippines visiting my wife's relatives. This cane has some great powerfibers (somewhat similar to Tonkin). The only difference I can see isthatthe nodal areas are different. The Philippine cane has one major hump andone smaller one. Since I build nodeless then would be of no consequencetome. This cane has been air drying since then, and next week my father in lawwill be cutting the nodes out and sending at least three culms (numberedsections) to me here. It will probably take about 2-3 months to get here.One culm has been promised to my nodeless mentor. I will be willing toshare pieces of this with anyone that would like. All I need is enough tobuild one rod for testing. I brought back some pieces last February assouvenirs and the two rodmakers that I let have some remarked that itseemedreal close to Calcutta cane. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue May 22 08:47:30 2001 f4MDlTT11005 Tue, 22 May 2001 06:47:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I'm wondering why one could not simply adjust the taper dimensionsupward for a given rod to compensate for the "whippier" action of some ofthe alternate bamboos that have been discussed recently. Bill, I suspect that your ideas will work quite well with some species of bambooother than AA. The local bamboo I tried is native to this area. Many yearsagoPresident Teddy Roosevelt came to Winnsboro, Louisiana. He used our townas abase for his bear hunting expeditions. During the time that Roosevelt visted,he often made remarks about the miles and miles of "cane brakes". Here inthelower Mississippi River delta today we have hundreds of thousands of acresofcotton, corn, and soybeans. A hundred years ago those same fields werenaturalgrowths of bamboo, interspersed with bottomland hardwood timber. Manypocketsof the bamboo remain alive and well. The hardwood hasn't faired so well. Four years ago I cut a few dozen stalks of the local bamboo, and madeteepees in my sunny back yard. Yes, all the neighbors were able to confirmtheir suspicions that I am completely crazy!! I cut the culms from 12' to 18'long, and 2.5" to 3" at the base, and 1.5" to 2.5" at the top. The nodes aremore closely spaced than Tonkin cane at the bottom, and farther apart atthetop. Average space between bottom nodes was about 6 inches, and about 22inchesbetween the top nodes. These nodes are a little less prominent than theTonkincane I've used, though perhaps a little longer area must be filed down to getthem flat. I learned quite a bit. First, this bamboo grows with a natural waxy outersurface. Remember the descriptions of Chinese growers scouring thebamboo poleswith river sand? Unless one removes that waxy surface, the natural greencolorwill last for years. I used rough Scotch Brite and a garden hose to removetheouter wax from several culms of bamboo. It's tenacious stuff, and removingthewax from a culm took me about an hour. Once the wax was removed, the bamboo dried to a beautiful blonde color inabout 6 weeks of sunshine and 98* temperatures. After a year of drying inmyshop, the bamboo split easily. The power fibers appear very similar to anaverage culm of Tonkin cane. The nodal dams are extremely hard, andbrittle.Planing them away dulls a blade in no time flat. The kicker came when I started trying to flatten and straighten thebambooat the nodes or flame the bamboo. Heating it to the point of flexibilityreleased a resin of some sort from the interior of the bamboo to the enamelside. The enamel remains sticky for days after cooling. Once dry, the resingives the enamel a shiny, polyurethane looking coating. It's really beautiful,but frustrating. Once the enamel is removed, heating the bamboo againdrivesthe resin back to the surface. In my experience, this resin came close tomaking this bamboo unusable. I went as far as rough planing out six strips, then binding and heattreating. Most of the resin boiled out and was easily cleaned up with mineralspirits on a rag. AHA, I had that problem solved! Or so I thought. When Igave the untapered strips the old "bend test" things went sour. If I held theheat- treated strips in a bend for a few seconds, that bend was somewhatretained. The tendency to retain their bent shape was enough to cause metoquit trying with this particular bamboo. In my mind, all I proved was that this particular species isn't suitable formaking rods with the methods we currently use. I doubted anyone justlooking atthe bamboo would have been able to tell it from Tonkin. That is, I doubted ittill at SRG 98, Harold Demarest took one look and asked, "What kind ofbamboo isthis? It's not Tonkin." All in all it was a fun experiment. And I'm glad Idid it. But simply changing the tapers would not have worked. Perhaps withmore, or less, heat treating, and some different ways of handling thebamboo,better results might have been obtained. But I wasn't willing to invest thatmuch time and effort. I did use this bamboo to make a nice frame for amirrorin one of our bathrooms which my wife has decorated in a jungle motif. I'd behappy to take pictures if anyone is interested. Just my five dollars worth, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bob@downandacross.com Tue May 22 09:58:24 2001 f4MEwNT14408 Subject: Re: Followup on Loctite --=====================_56681923==_.ALT That is how I came to post it as a recommendation for the ferrule fix. Several people have told me they use it with good success in place of soldering.Best regards,Bob At 12:16 AM 5/22/2001 -0400, David Rinker wrote:I was interested in the post on using loctite (green) in place of solder onferrules. What I was wondering was can it be used to glue in moisture capsreplacing solder?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_56681923==_.ALT That is how I came to post it as a recommendation for the ferrule fix.Several people have told me they use it with good success in place ofsoldering.Best regards,BobAt 12:16 AM 5/22/2001 -0400, David Rinker wrote:I was interested in the post onusing loctite (green) in place of solder on moisture capsreplacing solder?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_56681923==_.ALT-- from owen@davies.mv.com Tue May 22 10:43:10 2001 f4MFh9T16798 Subject: Re: Bizarre problem, off-topic but list-related As Martin Jensen observed: Outlook Express and Outlook are the favorite target of virus writers ... And one of them just got me, and I didn't catch the problem untilthe first batch of infected e-mail had gone out. I do hope no onehere was afflicted owing to my slow reflexes. If anyone did wind up with this thing, Norton will take care of it.If you do not have a good antivirus program, you can downloada 30-day demo version of Norton Antivirus from Tucows. Nortonwill even LiveUpdate it for you, which is necessary to deal withthis virus. My sincere apologies for spreading this particular social diseaseto this list. Owen Davies from bob@downandacross.com Tue May 22 15:22:06 2001 f4MKM0T28076 May 2001 16:21:03 -0400 Subject: Quad rod id, please help --=====================_1709441==_.ALT Anyone have info on quads with the name Thomas-Caufield (sp?) It has a rattan grip? Probably from the 20s or 30s. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_1709441==_.ALT Anyone have info on quads with the name Thomas-Caufield (sp?) It has arattan grip? Probably from the 20s or 30s. Any help would be appreciated.Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_1709441==_.ALT-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue May 22 16:08:30 2001 f4ML8TT00216 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Quad rod id, please help Bob,You may have a Thomas-Carlson "Four". Sam dubbed his rods that for a short period after he acquired Thomas in 1958. I have an early sixties Carlson brochure which mentions the transition of the name from Thomas-Carlson "Four" to the Carlson "Four". Also some shots of his reelseats and ferrules. Do you want me to scan the reelseat photo and send it to you?The rattan grip is interesting. I didn't know he ever used that.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/Bob Maulucci wrote: Anyone have info on quads with the name Thomas-Caufield (sp?) It has a rattan grip? Probably from the 20s or 30s. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob Maulucci from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue May 22 16:32:04 2001 f4MLW3T01228 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: lbs Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for, and also howto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue May 22 16:42:26 2001 f4MLgPT01732 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: lbs Hi Danny -- "lbs" means pounds, which is actually a force. Kilograms are units of mass,technically. Force = mass X acceleration (in this case, gravity). Thenormal conversion is 2.2 pounds = 1 Kilogram. This is only true on earth.On the moon, it would be more like 1 Kilogram = 0.36 lbs. Mass is mass nomatter where you take it, but weight (a force) depends on the gravitationalfield strength. TAM : ) -----Original Message----- Subject: lbs Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for, and also howto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue May 22 16:43:12 2001 f4MLhBT01858 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: lbs Thanks guys. How in h*** did they came up with that lbs for pounds. BTW. are we talking "troy" or "avoir" ponds? danny From: Alan Macey Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:34:35 -0500 Subject: RE: lbs lbs = pounds, and one kilogram = 2.2 lbs. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: lbs Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for,and also howto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Tue May 22 16:49:39 2001 f4MLndT02286 Subject: Re: lbs Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for, and also howto convert to meteric kilo/gram Danny, 'lbs' is the abbreviation for 1 pound. Multiply pounds by 453.5924 to get grams Multiply grams by .002205 to get pounds Mike - of course it's hard to be exact - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue May 22 16:50:24 2001 f4MLoNT02436 Tue, 22 May 2001 22:50:21 +0100 Subject: Re: lbs Danny,1kg =2.2lbsThis was a unit of measurement invoked by the (we) Brits when we had anempire and now thankfully continued by our American cousins.......Paul Danny Twang wrote: Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for, and also howto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny from bob@downandacross.com Tue May 22 16:53:10 2001 f4MLr4T02765 Subject: Re: lbs --=====================_7163242==_.ALT Websters says...any of various units of mass and weight; specifically : a unit now in general use among English-speaking peoples equal to 16 avoirdupois ounces or 7000 grains or 0.45359237 kilogramNO idea about the lb except maybe it is from the Latin libra for scale?Bob At 11:42 PM 5/22/2001 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:Thanks guys. How in h*** did they came up with that lbs for pounds. BTW. are we talking "troy" or "avoir" ponds? danny From: Alan Macey Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:34:35 -0500 Subject: RE: lbs lbs = pounds, and one kilogram = 2.2 lbs. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: lbs Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for,and also howto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_7163242==_.ALT Websters says...any of various units of mass and weight; specifically : aunit now in general use among English-speaking peoples equal to 16avoirdupois ounces or 7000 grains or 0.45359237 kilogram NO idea about the lb except maybe it is from the Latin libra forscale? Bob At 11:42 PM 5/22/2001 +0200, Danny Twang wrote:Thanks guys.How in h*** did they came up with that lbs for pounds.BTW. are we talking "troy" or "avoir" ponds?danny for, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_7163242==_.ALT-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue May 22 16:53:18 2001 f4MLrGT02778 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: lbs Thanks guys, thanks, I think I got it now:-) danny From: "Chris Raine" Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:41:36 -0700 Subject: Re: lbs Hey Viking,Lbs is pounds, U.S. 16 American ounces to the pound. 2.2 pounds to thekilogram. Can you believe it?Chris-----Original Message-----From: Danny Twang Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:39 PMSubject: lbs Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for, and alsohowto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 22 16:54:55 2001 f4MLssT03084 Subject: RE: lbs And whoever said rodmakers were anal retentive? :-)) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: lbs Thanks guys, thanks, I think I got it now:-) danny From: "Chris Raine" Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:41:36 -0700 Subject: Re: lbs Hey Viking,Lbs is pounds, U.S. 16 American ounces to the pound. 2.2 pounds to thekilogram. Can you believe it?Chris-----Original Message-----From: Danny Twang Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:39 PMSubject: lbs Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for, and alsohowto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny from bob@downandacross.com Tue May 22 17:01:25 2001 f4MM1NT03526 Subject: RE: lbs --=====================_7671972==_.ALT How's this for anal...[Middle English from Old English pund, from West Germanic *punda-, from Latin (libra) pond, (a pound) by weight; see (s)pen- in Indo-European Roots.]Bob At 03:57 PM 5/22/2001 -0600, jmpio@nhbm.com wrote:And whoever said rodmakers were anal retentive? :-)) -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:53 PM Subject: Re: lbs --=====================_7671972==_.ALT How's this for anal...[Middle English from Old English pund, from West Germanic *punda-, from Latin (libra) pond, (a pound) byweight; see (s)pen- in Indo-European Roots.] Bob At 03:57 PM 5/22/2001 -0600, jmpio@nhbm.com wrote:And whoever said rodmakers wereanal retentive? :-))-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: lbs --=====================_7671972==_.ALT-- from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 22 17:04:00 2001 f4MM3xT03787 Subject: Rod Evaluation Since the list seems slow (as evidence just look at the response to the lbs.question), I'll throw a question out. Just finished my first rod, a 7' 4wt. I've never owned or fished a good cane rod. The ones I have are lowend production models. And I've only owned a handful of graph**e rods. I'mtrying to evaluate this new rod, decide whether I've done good, or whetherI've done real good, and having trouble. I've only had the opportunity tocast it on a casting pond. No live fire exercises yet, though that willhappen this weekend. On the pond I was able to cast it accurately to about45 or 50 feet. And the maximum distance, with great loss of accuracy, wasabout 60'. Keep in mind, I'm a solidly mediocre caster. I've tried tocompare that to a similar length and weight graph*** rod that I can cast to70' plus, and can cast somewhat accurately to about 40'. But of course,comparing the two purely on the numbers is somewhat . . . dissatisfying. Ididn't expect this rod to be a powerhouse. Indeed, its intended use issmall streams where casts over 30' are unheard of. So, my question, how far do you think a good 7' 4 wt should accurately throwa line? How about an excellent 7' 4wt? And before any of you feel compelled to tell me about the joys that aresupposed to be inherent in rodmaking: the short answer is that of coursemine is an exceptional rod because I built it and it actually casts a lineand I will enjoy it forever b/c it was my first and yadda yadda yadda from harms1@pa.net Tue May 22 17:13:17 2001 f4MMDGT04404 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Harry, Well, scratch THAT species off the list!! By the way, I understand thatthis is North America's only native species. Thanks so much for the tale ofyour adventures. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I'm wondering why one could not simply adjust the taper dimensionsupward for a given rod to compensate for the "whippier" action of someofthe alternate bamboos that have been discussed recently. Bill, I suspect that your ideas will work quite well with some species ofbambooother than AA. The local bamboo I tried is native to this area. Manyyears agoPresident Teddy Roosevelt came to Winnsboro, Louisiana. He used ourtownas abase for his bear hunting expeditions. During the time that Rooseveltvisted,he often made remarks about the miles and miles of "cane brakes". Hereinthelower Mississippi River delta today we have hundreds of thousands of acresofcotton, corn, and soybeans. A hundred years ago those same fields werenaturalgrowths of bamboo, interspersed with bottomland hardwood timber. Manypocketsof the bamboo remain alive and well. The hardwood hasn't faired so well. Four years ago I cut a few dozen stalks of the local bamboo, and madeteepees in my sunny back yard. Yes, all the neighbors were able toconfirmtheir suspicions that I am completely crazy!! I cut the culms from 12' to18'long, and 2.5" to 3" at the base, and 1.5" to 2.5" at the top. The nodesaremore closely spaced than Tonkin cane at the bottom, and farther apart atthetop. Average space between bottom nodes was about 6 inches, and about22inchesbetween the top nodes. These nodes are a little less prominent than theTonkincane I've used, though perhaps a little longer area must be filed down togetthem flat. I learned quite a bit. First, this bamboo grows with a natural waxyoutersurface. Remember the descriptions of Chinese growers scouring thebamboopoleswith river sand? Unless one removes that waxy surface, the natural greencolorwill last for years. I used rough Scotch Brite and a garden hose toremove theouter wax from several culms of bamboo. It's tenacious stuff, andremoving thewax from a culm took me about an hour. Once the wax was removed, the bamboo dried to a beautiful blonde colorinabout 6 weeks of sunshine and 98* temperatures. After a year of dryinginmyshop, the bamboo split easily. The power fibers appear very similar to anaverage culm of Tonkin cane. The nodal dams are extremely hard, andbrittle.Planing them away dulls a blade in no time flat. The kicker came when I started trying to flatten and straighten thebambooat the nodes or flame the bamboo. Heating it to the point of flexibilityreleased a resin of some sort from the interior of the bamboo to theenamelside. The enamel remains sticky for days after cooling. Once dry, theresingives the enamel a shiny, polyurethane looking coating. It's reallybeautiful,but frustrating. Once the enamel is removed, heating the bamboo againdrivesthe resin back to the surface. In my experience, this resin came close tomaking this bamboo unusable. I went as far as rough planing out six strips, then binding and heattreating. Most of the resin boiled out and was easily cleaned up withmineralspirits on a rag. AHA, I had that problem solved! Or so I thought. WhenIgave the untapered strips the old "bend test" things went sour. If I heldtheheat- treated strips in a bend for a few seconds, that bend was somewhatretained. The tendency to retain their bent shape was enough to cause metoquit trying with this particular bamboo. In my mind, all I proved was that this particular species isn'tsuitable formaking rods with the methods we currently use. I doubted anyone justlooking atthe bamboo would have been able to tell it from Tonkin. That is, Idoubted ittill at SRG 98, Harold Demarest took one look and asked, "What kind ofbamboo isthis? It's not Tonkin." All in all it was a fun experiment. And I'mglad Idid it. But simply changing the tapers would not have worked. Perhapswithmore, or less, heat treating, and some different ways of handling thebamboo,better results might have been obtained. But I wasn't willing to investthatmuch time and effort. I did use this bamboo to make a nice frame for amirrorin one of our bathrooms which my wife has decorated in a jungle motif.I'd behappy to take pictures if anyone is interested. Just my five dollars worth, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from harms1@pa.net Tue May 22 17:17:37 2001 f4MMHaT04714 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo I don't know if you will or not. At least, I don't know what the name ofthe thread might be. I do remember reading a good deal about both issuesthree or four years ago. In any event, perhaps we could prevail upon Tom Smithwick to help the listout on these two rods. He has had a good bit of experience with both, andit might be fun to see the fur fly again. How 'bout it, Tom? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Alternate Bamboo Bill, now you're just teasing us newbies. "Poor man's quad", "spiralglue-up"? Us young 'uns never heard those stories. Will I find them inthearchives? -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:58 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; baconrod@gsmrinc.comSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo All, I'm wondering why one could not simply adjust the taper dimensionsupward for a given rod to compensate for the "whippier" action of some ofthe alternate bamboos that have been discussed recently. Isn't that whatwe do to obtain the desired power for a rod in any case? Might.005"-.006"per station do the trick--as if we were just advancing one line-weight?Ofcourse, it is possible that this might produce a heavier rod than theTonkincounterpart (due to increased cross-sectional mass), butit is also possible that the alternate cane rod wouldn't be heavier at all(less density through those cross-sections). Who knows? No doubt, this would have to be a trial-and-error process, and probablywould not be of interest to builders who prefer to rely on established,computer- driven stress curves. But for the rest of us(mathematically-challanged) clods, if we happen to run across some localbamboo of promising-but- unknown quality, why not experiment a little?Thisis a hobby for most of us, isn't it? The cost of good Tonkin cane is notexhorbitant, it's true, but it would seem to be fun to try some of thealternative bamboos that come along from time to time. Out behind my home, here in southcentral Pennsylvania, I planted a fewsmallstands of "Rubromarginata," "Vivax, "Congesta," "Nuda," "Aureolsulcata"and"Nigra." These should produce mature culms in perhaps another five yearsorso, and will probably turn out to be good for decorative landscaping only.All of these are "Phyllostachys" and not "Arundinaria," so the culms willhave larger nodes and also the characteristic groove between nodes--andthatmeans less usable cane form a stick. But, so what? I don't intend torevolutionize the industry. I chose these species because of their hardiness in temperate climates andalso for their reputation as good "wood." So who knows, I also may beableto build a decent rod from some of it. I'm going to give it a try,anyhow. Sometimes I think we get a little too hide-bound in our reliance onmathematical formulas, computer programs and proven techniques ormaterials.Certainly nothing wrong with any of that stuff (I use it all myself), butit's a big world and there is a lot of enjoyment to be had in just messingaround with the many possibilities "out there." Consider, for instance,some of Tom Smithwick's little projects. There's his wrapping machine.It's an astonishingly simple, cobbled-up, low-tech mess--but one that doesits job perfectly. Or his "poor-man's quad," which would seem to make noengineering sense at all (you don't even use a planing form or wrappingmachine), but which also turns out to be a wonderful rod. Or the "spiralglue-up," which results in a more powerful rod than its "straight"counterpart for reasons that many builders have argued about, but nonehaveresolved. And so on, and so on. cheers, and have fun,Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Bamboo Joe" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:52 PMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Last year (Feb 2000) I personally picked and cut some bamboo while inthePhilippines visiting my wife's relatives. This cane has some greatpowerfibers (somewhat similar to Tonkin). The only difference I can see isthatthe nodal areas are different. The Philippine cane has one major humpandone smaller one. Since I build nodeless then would be of no consequencetome. This cane has been air drying since then, and next week my father in lawwill be cutting the nodes out and sending at least three culms (numberedsections) to me here. It will probably take about 2-3 months to gethere.One culm has been promised to my nodeless mentor. I will be willing toshare pieces of this with anyone that would like. All I need is enoughtobuild one rod for testing. I brought back some pieces last February assouvenirs and the two rodmakers that I let have some remarked that itseemedreal close to Calcutta cane. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue May 22 17:32:38 2001 f4MMWbT05267 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: Long, but hopefully insightful Hi Mac Pretty close! from a materials standpoint, the terms "modulus ofelasticity" and "tensile strength" are distinctly different, however.Elastic modulus does refer to how stiff the material is. It is measured inpounds force required to cause an inch of deflection per inch of originalspecimen length (pounds per square inch). These inches are in terms oflengths of the sample, rather than area in cross section. (disclaimer --when you use the equation to calculate the length change, it does alsoinvolve the cross sectional area of the sample.) A rubber band has a verylow modulus of elasticity. It might only take one pound of force to cause a1" piece to grow to 2". If you took a similar sized steel wire, it wouldtake much more force to try to stretch it that far (high modulus). In fact,you might not even be able to stretch a short piece that much. That leads "Tensile strength" refers to how much force a sample can take before itbreaks. Sometimes referred to "ultimate strength". It is also measured inpounds per square inch, but is not particularly concerned with how stiff itis. You just pull on the sample until it breaks -- the distance you pulledis not important. If the sample was one square inch in cross section, howmany pounds did it take? In my industry, we deal with long tubes (drill pipes, and well casing, etc),which have all sorts of forces applied to them. We need to be able topredict how the length will change when we apply the forces, and also whatis the maximum force before we bust something. While most of the steelthatis used has basically the same modulus of elasticity, the tensile strengthmay vary by 100%. That means that a one inch sample of Rubber Band "A"willstretch one inch (total length now two inches) after you apply one pound oftension, then SNAP! Rubber Band "B", with the same modulus of elasticity ,keeps going past that first inch of stretch, and makes it all the way to twoinches of stretch (three inches total) at two pounds of tension beforebreaking. This is accomplished in the heat treating process of the steel.Chemistry of the alloy generally determines the elastic modulus, but HT,quenching, and tempering determine the tensile strength (by altering thegrain structure of the alloying metals). That's why it's so interesting to me that we seem to change the modulus ofelasticity of cane by heat treating, but not the tensile (at least not thatI've heard). Certainly different behavior than we see with metals..... More than you ever wanted to know about engineering mechanics -- TAM : ) Don Phillips notes in his Technology of Fly Rods book that graphite fibersare many times stiffer in tension than they are in compression. I'd assumethat Tonkin would be similar in behavior. This is not the case with mostmetals, which are about equal stiffness in tension and compression. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Claude wrote: I can see how differing amounts ofheat-treating might cause one to become stiffer than the other, butit two different pieces of cane are treated exactly the same, whatmakes one stiffer than the other? Assuming the samples would be equal in dimensions, I would guess thatdifferences in the material's Modulus of Elasticity is what does it.I'm not a mechanical engineer, but to bend something, one side of thesample has to lengthen since the outside of a curve is longer than themiddle, if you follow. The other side has to compress. If the materialhas a high Modulus of Elasticity (tensile strength?), it resistslengthening and hence is "stiff", assuming it equally can resist thecompressive forces on the other side. Implied, then, is that the power fibers of one one sample have higherModulus of Elasticity than the other. But why are the fibers different? I dunno - not a botany type, either! just my 2 cents - mac from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue May 22 17:49:29 2001 f4MMnST05770 ;Tue, 22 May 2001 22:49:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Quad rod id, please help This is a multi-part message in MIME format. The April 2001 Powerfibers issue is again excellent job. Thanks. Jack The April 2001 Powerfibers issue is = job. Thanks. Jack from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue May 22 17:51:21 2001 f4MMpJT05949 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:50:59 -0700 Subject: Spiral Rods (was alternate bamboo) f4MMpKT05950 There is a fairly rare, though not old, book titled "Anglers Workshop" byLetcher Lambuth. I think there is a 1979 printing by Champoeg press. Going jigs/hold downs to hold the twist in place while the glue sets such that theappropriate degree of twist is maintained after the glue is set. One sidebenefit is the elimination for the need to straighten any twists after bindingif that plagues you, since you are actually adding the twists on these rods. There is also a formula or at least a design where the guides will stay inplane based on the twist and the guide spacing for a particular length rod.One sixth twist between each guide for example. I thought the theory wasthat it stiffened the rods action. Tom Smithwick can answer that question. There was also a rod from the early days wrapped entirely in white silkthread. I think the theory was to strengthen the entire rod, much like we dowhite silk overwraps on hook digs or splinters. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu from horsesho@ptd.net Tue May 22 18:05:23 2001 f4MN5MT06471 0000 Subject: Re: Quad rod id, please help --------------8D3EC9375111E9A02CD2F37B Hi Bob, I know Sam Carlson made Quad's marked Thomas 4 Or Carlson 4. Ifit is one of those it's the find of the Century. He marked his rods inblack ink as opposed to Edwards white ink. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Anyone have info on quads with the name Thomas-Caufield (sp?) It hasa rattan grip? Probably from the 20s or 30s. Any help would beappreciated. Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadratebamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------8D3EC9375111E9A02CD2F37B Hi Bob, I know Sam Carlson made Quad's marked Thomas 4 Or Carlson 4. Ifit is one of those it's the find of the Century. He marked his rods inblack ink as opposed to Edwards white ink. MartyBob Maulucci wrote: Thomas-Caufield(sp?) It has a rattan grip? Probably from the 20s or 30s. Any help wouldbe appreciated. Thanks, BobMaulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherlinelathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867- 0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------8D3EC9375111E9A02CD2F37B-- from cathcreek@hotmail.com Tue May 22 18:58:14 2001 f4MNwDT07506 Tue, 22 May 2001 16:58:00 -0700 Tue, 22 May 2001 23:57:59 GMT Subject: Re: Spiral Rods (was alternate bamboo) FILETIME=[07E56470:01C0E31B] Best of Planing Form also has information on the spiral. Good book for those that don't have it. Best to all, Rob Robert ClarkeCatherine Creek Rodscathcreek@hotmail.comhttp://ccr_2.tripod.com/bamboo/index.html From: "Christopher McDowell" Subject: Spiral Rods (was alternate bamboo)Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:50:54 -0700 There is a fairly rare, though not old, book titled "Anglers Workshop" by Letcher Lambuth. I think there is a 1979 printing by Champoeg press. Going by memory, because I don't actually have it. He explains how to set up the jigs/hold downs to hold the twist in place while the glue sets such that the appropriate degree of twist is maintained after the glue is set. One side benefit is the elimination for the need to straighten any twists after binding if that plagues you, since you are actually adding the twists on these rods. There is also a formula or at least a design where the guides will stay in plane based on the twist and the guide spacing for a particular length rod. One sixth twist between each guide for example. I thought the theory was that it stiffened the rods action. Tom Smithwickcan answer that question. There was also a rod from the early days wrapped entirely in white silk thread. I think the theory was to strengthen the entire rod, much like we do white silk overwraps on hook digs or splinters. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue May 22 19:56:18 2001 f4N0uGT08421 Subject: future cane anglers/ Canadian Cane Hi, I know this is pretty much off subject, but I thought there might be arodmaker (or two) heading for the Canadian Cane Gathering this weekend whojust might have an old graphite or worse in the back of closet that youreally don't want, or need for tomato stakes :-) I have eleven 7th graders who've been learning to fly fish with me onFridays at school. My resident rodmaker and our local TU chapter have beenwonderful, and these kids have finally found a niche at school for thefirst time. Only three of them actually own a fly rod, and the close ofthe school year will mean the end of fishing for the others. As usual, ourlittle group came with zero budget. Probably you all have kids who've already asked...but if anyone heading forFergus still has something that would serve these kids better than an alderstick, please feel free to toss it in the car, and David and I will pick itup there. Next fall, we'll start them working toward bamboo...with any luck! TIA,Kat from caneman@clnk.com Tue May 22 20:07:08 2001 f4N177T08782 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: lbs Danny,LB. is an abbreviation for hmmmm... can't remember but its a latin word,and is equivalant to 16 ounces. To convert grams to ounces you use afactorof 0.0353. You'll just have to do the reverse mathematics from there. WishI could be of more help. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: lbs Hi folks, Cane someone explaine to me what the weight lbs is short for, and also howto convert to meteric kilo/gram Thanksdanny from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue May 22 22:35:11 2001 f4N3ZAT11235 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Hi Bill - I just finished a spiral rod to take up to the Grand gathering. I'll try to get a decent photo and post it. These things are always super casters, but I don't claim to have a totally scientific explanation. A bunch of rods have been built to the same taper using different techniques. It ought to be interesting to see the differences.I am not responsible for the two strip revival, that honor belongs to Richard Tyree. I only continued the good work he began, and probably never wouldhave tried it except for Bill Fink and Dan Neuschafer.My binder a disorganized mess?? tsk, tsk from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Wed May 23 03:19:02 2001 f4N8IxT14718 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo I wouldn't give up that easily!!I believe that the presence of the resin is dependent on the time of yearand the age of the cane when cut. If the cane is cut in the growing season,it will be relatively sappy and resinous. Cutting it in the coolest part ofthe year should reduce this. I have also found out that the cane should notbe cut until its third year of growth. Apparently this results in hardercane than young, new growth. Finally, in Asia, it is normal to sink thebales of freshly cut canes in deep ponds for a while (weeks? months? notsure) This is said to wash out the sap and is regarded as necessary for anyload bearing use of the bamboo. I for one am keeping my hopes up thatanother source can be used, one way or another.----- Original Message --- -- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Harry, Well, scratch THAT species off the list!! By the way, I understand thatthis is North America's only native species. Thanks so much for the taleofyour adventures. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:46 AMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I'm wondering why one could not simply adjust the taper dimensionsupward for a given rod to compensate for the "whippier" action ofsomeofthe alternate bamboos that have been discussed recently. Bill, I suspect that your ideas will work quite well with some species ofbambooother than AA. The local bamboo I tried is native to this area. Manyyears agoPresident Teddy Roosevelt came to Winnsboro, Louisiana. He used ourtownas abase for his bear hunting expeditions. During the time that Rooseveltvisted,he often made remarks about the miles and miles of "cane brakes". Hereinthelower Mississippi River delta today we have hundreds of thousands ofacresofcotton, corn, and soybeans. A hundred years ago those same fields werenaturalgrowths of bamboo, interspersed with bottomland hardwood timber. Manypocketsof the bamboo remain alive and well. The hardwood hasn't faired sowell. Four years ago I cut a few dozen stalks of the local bamboo, andmadeteepees in my sunny back yard. Yes, all the neighbors were able toconfirmtheir suspicions that I am completely crazy!! I cut the culms from 12'to18'long, and 2.5" to 3" at the base, and 1.5" to 2.5" at the top. Thenodesaremore closely spaced than Tonkin cane at the bottom, and farther apartatthetop. Average space between bottom nodes was about 6 inches, andabout22inchesbetween the top nodes. These nodes are a little less prominent than theTonkincane I've used, though perhaps a little longer area must be filed downtogetthem flat. I learned quite a bit. First, this bamboo grows with a natural waxyoutersurface. Remember the descriptions of Chinese growers scouring thebamboopoleswith river sand? Unless one removes that waxy surface, the naturalgreencolorwill last for years. I used rough Scotch Brite and a garden hose toremove theouter wax from several culms of bamboo. It's tenacious stuff, andremoving thewax from a culm took me about an hour. Once the wax was removed, the bamboo dried to a beautiful blondecolorinabout 6 weeks of sunshine and 98* temperatures. After a year ofdryinginmyshop, the bamboo split easily. The power fibers appear very similar toanaverage culm of Tonkin cane. The nodal dams are extremely hard, andbrittle.Planing them away dulls a blade in no time flat. The kicker came when I started trying to flatten and straighten thebambooat the nodes or flame the bamboo. Heating it to the point offlexibilityreleased a resin of some sort from the interior of the bamboo to theenamelside. The enamel remains sticky for days after cooling. Once dry, theresingives the enamel a shiny, polyurethane looking coating. It's reallybeautiful,but frustrating. Once the enamel is removed, heating the bamboo againdrivesthe resin back to the surface. In my experience, this resin came closetomaking this bamboo unusable. I went as far as rough planing out six strips, then binding and heattreating. Most of the resin boiled out and was easily cleaned up withmineralspirits on a rag. AHA, I had that problem solved! Or so I thought.WhenIgave the untapered strips the old "bend test" things went sour. If Iheldtheheat- treated strips in a bend for a few seconds, that bend wassomewhatretained. The tendency to retain their bent shape was enough to causemetoquit trying with this particular bamboo. In my mind, all I proved was that this particular species isn'tsuitable formaking rods with the methods we currently use. I doubted anyone justlooking atthe bamboo would have been able to tell it from Tonkin. That is, Idoubted ittill at SRG 98, Harold Demarest took one look and asked, "What kind ofbamboo isthis? It's not Tonkin." All in all it was a fun experiment. And I'mglad Idid it. But simply changing the tapers would not have worked. Perhapswithmore, or less, heat treating, and some different ways of handling thebamboo,better results might have been obtained. But I wasn't willing to investthatmuch time and effort. I did use this bamboo to make a nice frame for amirrorin one of our bathrooms which my wife has decorated in a jungle motif.I'd behappy to take pictures if anyone is interested. Just my five dollars worth, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from harms1@pa.net Wed May 23 07:06:59 2001 f4NC6uT17167 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo David,You know, you probably have something there. Also, it has occurred to methat the only culms usually thought suitable for harvesting are those thathave grown from a mature stand (at least seven to ten years old) and which,themselves, are at least four to five years old. Among other things,perhaps it is the persistence of pesky resins in younger culms that could beat issue here. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo I wouldn't give up that easily!!I believe that the presence of the resin is dependent on the time of yearand the age of the cane when cut. If the cane is cut in the growingseason,it will be relatively sappy and resinous. Cutting it in the coolest partofthe year should reduce this. I have also found out that the cane shouldnotbe cut until its third year of growth. Apparently this results in hardercane than young, new growth. Finally, in Asia, it is normal to sink thebales of freshly cut canes in deep ponds for a while (weeks? months? notsure) This is said to wash out the sap and is regarded as necessary foranyload bearing use of the bamboo. I for one am keeping my hopes up thatanother source can be used, one way or another.----- Original Message --- --From: WILLIAM HARMS Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 10:09 AMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Harry, Well, scratch THAT species off the list!! By the way, I understandthatthis is North America's only native species. Thanks so much for thetaleofyour adventures. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:46 AMSubject: Re: Alternate Bamboo WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I'm wondering why one could not simply adjust the taper dimensionsupward for a given rod to compensate for the "whippier" action ofsomeofthe alternate bamboos that have been discussed recently. Bill, I suspect that your ideas will work quite well with some speciesofbambooother than AA. The local bamboo I tried is native to this area. Manyyears agoPresident Teddy Roosevelt came to Winnsboro, Louisiana. He used ourtownas abase for his bear hunting expeditions. During the time that Rooseveltvisted,he often made remarks about the miles and miles of "cane brakes".Hereinthelower Mississippi River delta today we have hundreds of thousands ofacresofcotton, corn, and soybeans. A hundred years ago those same fieldswerenaturalgrowths of bamboo, interspersed with bottomland hardwood timber. Manypocketsof the bamboo remain alive and well. The hardwood hasn't faired sowell. Four years ago I cut a few dozen stalks of the local bamboo, andmadeteepees in my sunny back yard. Yes, all the neighbors were able toconfirmtheir suspicions that I am completely crazy!! I cut the culms from12'to18'long, and 2.5" to 3" at the base, and 1.5" to 2.5" at the top. Thenodesaremore closely spaced than Tonkin cane at the bottom, and farther apartatthetop. Average space between bottom nodes was about 6 inches, andabout22inchesbetween the top nodes. These nodes are a little less prominent thantheTonkincane I've used, though perhaps a little longer area must be filed downtogetthem flat. I learned quite a bit. First, this bamboo grows with a naturalwaxyoutersurface. Remember the descriptions of Chinese growers scouring thebamboopoleswith river sand? Unless one removes that waxy surface, the naturalgreencolorwill last for years. I used rough Scotch Brite and a garden hose toremove theouter wax from several culms of bamboo. It's tenacious stuff, andremoving thewax from a culm took me about an hour. Once the wax was removed, the bamboo dried to a beautiful blondecolorinabout 6 weeks of sunshine and 98* temperatures. After a year ofdryinginmyshop, the bamboo split easily. The power fibers appear very similartoanaverage culm of Tonkin cane. The nodal dams are extremely hard, andbrittle.Planing them away dulls a blade in no time flat. The kicker came when I started trying to flatten and straightenthebambooat the nodes or flame the bamboo. Heating it to the point offlexibilityreleased a resin of some sort from the interior of the bamboo to theenamelside. The enamel remains sticky for days after cooling. Once dry,theresingives the enamel a shiny, polyurethane looking coating. It's reallybeautiful,but frustrating. Once the enamel is removed, heating the bambooagaindrivesthe resin back to the surface. In my experience, this resin cameclosetomaking this bamboo unusable. I went as far as rough planing out six strips, then binding andheattreating. Most of the resin boiled out and was easily cleaned up withmineralspirits on a rag. AHA, I had that problem solved! Or so I thought.WhenIgave the untapered strips the old "bend test" things went sour. If Iheldtheheat- treated strips in a bend for a few seconds, that bend wassomewhatretained. The tendency to retain their bent shape was enough to causemetoquit trying with this particular bamboo. In my mind, all I proved was that this particular species isn'tsuitable formaking rods with the methods we currently use. I doubted anyone justlooking atthe bamboo would have been able to tell it from Tonkin. That is, Idoubted ittill at SRG 98, Harold Demarest took one look and asked, "What kind ofbamboo isthis? It's not Tonkin." All in all it was a fun experiment. And I'mglad Idid it. But simply changing the tapers would not have worked.Perhapswithmore, or less, heat treating, and some different ways of handling thebamboo,better results might have been obtained. But I wasn't willing toinvestthatmuch time and effort. I did use this bamboo to make a nice frame foramirrorin one of our bathrooms which my wife has decorated in a jungle motif.I'd behappy to take pictures if anyone is interested. Just my five dollars worth, Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed May 23 07:23:44 2001 f4NCNhT17637 Wed, 23 May 2001 05:23:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Alternate Bamboo Bill, David,You might well be correct. Everything I did was unscientific, trial anderror. Since this bamboo grows wild, monitoring which culms are young andoldis problematic. Do you have suggestions on how to choose culms which aremorethan three years old? They all look alike to me. No doubt these groves ofbamboo are mature. Many of them have been around for hundreds of years. Withno way to determine their age, I just cut culms that were big, Guess I oughttocut some more this winter (non-growing season here, David). Looking forward to your suggestions,Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: David,You know, you probably have something there. Also, it has occurred to methat the only culms usually thought suitable for harvesting are those thathave grown from a mature stand (at least seven to ten years old) andwhich,themselves, are at least four to five years old. Among other things,perhaps it is the persistence of pesky resins in younger culms that couldbeat issue here. from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Wed May 23 09:21:29 2001 f4NELST22384 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation jmpio@nhbm.com seez... ...On the pond I was able to cast it accurately to about 45 or 50 feet. Andthemaximum distance, with great loss of accuracy, was about 60'. Keep inmind, I'ma solidly mediocre caster. ...So, my question, how far do you think a good 7' 4 wt should accuratelythrow aline? How about an excellent 7' 4wt? Well jmpio (BTW, it helps to sign your posts :-) the short answer to your question is: It Depends! Tapers are often designed not only for a specific line weight, but for a particular casting distance at which the rod will perform at it's best. While strangely, cane has the unique ability to perform very well at distances much shorter than the design distance, once you try going significantly over that distance, the rod's performance tends to taper off. It kinda of makes sense if you think about it...the longer the distance you try to cast, the more line you have in air, which means more weight you are exerting on the rod. Beyond a point, the amount of wood(umm, I mean grass)in the rod just isn't enough to support the weight of all the line in the air. If you seriously want to cast greater distances, probably going down a lineweight will give you the better accuracy you were wondering about. Of course, as you surmised, casting ability has a lot to do with it... Mike - lousy caster - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed May 23 10:30:26 2001 f4NFUPT25544 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation jmpio@nhbm.com Mike et al,Casting ability has more to do with the performance of the rod than the rod itself as far as distance is concerned. I have seen guys take a rod that someone else could not cast past 60' and push this rods casting distance out to the end of the flyline and into the backing. What happens a lot of times when one tries to get more distance they start to drop their backcast to far and an open loop develops that has no power in it. What I mean here is overcompensation of the cast to try andget the added power. If you know how to dbl. haul or even sngl. haul a line it greatly improves the performance of the rod as well. You will start to get the max performance from your rod also if you know exactly what the limitations are of the particular taper you have as well. Some rods are not built (tapered) to get long casts from. The 6'3" , 4 wght I am just finishing up has a casting range for peak performance at around 50-60 feet and when I pushed it out beyond that Icould start to feel the rod really flexing down into the handle to get the extra 15 feet or so. If you want to get a rod for distance do a stress curve to get what you are looking for. You may have to adjust the taper of a favorite rod to get the desired effect you want. I am in the process of working out a taper for a 8'9" rod that I want for max distance for Quebec and Atlantic salmon. I hope my calculations work out for what I am after.Bret from rhd360@maine.edu Wed May 23 10:50:57 2001 f4NFotT26591 0400 Subject: Northeast visit Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob.