Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed May 23 11:07:31 2001 f4NG7VT27451 2001 09:07:26 PDT Subject: Re: Northeast visit bob, phd in family relations!? you're the man thatneeds to write a book on flyfishing! "101 ways to getout of the house while maintaining domestictranquility". how about some tips. timothy :-) --- Robert Milardo wrote:Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and wouldlike suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit withrodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule isflexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill andWhite in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to theCatskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run+??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to anysuggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists,especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some waterimportant in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour willtake several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Somethinglike visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries ofMilwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Wed May 23 11:57:18 2001 f4NGvGT29528 f4NGxdV08162;Wed, 23 May 2001 11:59:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Northeast visit Robert,I used to fish the the White around the Granville Gulf on RT 100 in Vermont.Ifyou are in that area check out Texas Falls on Rt 125 to Middleberry. If on Rt100 you can pick up 125 west out of Hancock. There is a lot of goodsmallmouthfishing on the Mad river in that area.Things might of changed, Have not been up there in 10 years. I am on theWhitein Arkansas now.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Robert Milardo wrote: Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill HallUniversity of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from vfish@vFish.net Wed May 23 12:35:46 2001 f4NHZjT00996 0500 Subject: RE: Digger Video This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks for the plug Bob... Your "Creating a Garrison Fly Rod" video is nowon the way to you for you to do a review for the RM LIST... 8^) I was also amazed by how much info was packed into this 40 min. video... butthen the Garrison video is similar in length. I've been asked many times...which one is better? I'll have to take the 5th... or give a politiciansanswer.. they are both excellent. er... maybe the first one is also apoliticians answer as well... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Digger Video Just wanted to say that I got the "Digger: Portrait of Bamboo Fly RodMaker" from Darrell this week, and it is really a nicely done piece. Shortat 30+ minutes, but Digger's style is truly charming. Even my 2.5 year oldshouted out, "Oh! BAMBOO Daddy!"I just wondered about a few things that the video did not explain. 1. Whatdid he use to heat treat? He mentions cooking at 350* for an hour, but theydo not show the oven. 2. Also, they skip the straightening. How did he doit? 3. I read in Ron Barch's article on Digger, that he used nitrogen toeliminate moisture. How did he do that? Wow. I am now fascinated by Mr.Degere, I need more. Please?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, andmore218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com Thanks for the plug Bob... Your "Creating a Garrison = video is now on the way toyou = do a review for the RM LIST... 8^)I was also amazed by how much info was packed into = video... but then theGarrison = have = the 5th... or give a politicians = they are both excellent. er... maybe the first one is also a politicians answer as =well... MaulucciSent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:53 VideoJust wanted to say that I got the "Digger: = of Bamboo Fly Rod Maker" from Darrell this week, and it is really a = done piece. Short at 30+ minutes, but Digger's style is truly = my 2.5 year old shouted out, "Oh! BAMBOO Daddy!"I just wondered = few things that the video did not explain. 1. What did he use to heat = He mentions cooking at 350* for an hour, but they do not show the = Also, they skip the straightening. How did he do it? 3. I read in Ron = Please?Thanks, = = bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for= quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, = accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com= from andy@w-link.net Wed May 23 13:00:07 2001 f4NI06T01999 Subject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has got tobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is the bestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this is dueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight to getupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive to theneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviously manypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin is notexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly what theyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read through theyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does all itsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a foot indiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over three feetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is based onits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based on thearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the large sideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rare indeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvested inthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in water whichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starch iswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is the mostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planning thesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far as Iknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used for scaffolding inSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com from beadman@mac.com Wed May 23 13:24:08 2001 f4NIO7T02831 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) Andy - thanks for providing the info.Claude At 11:08 AM -0700 on 5/23/01, Andy Royer wrote about Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has gottobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will they... from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed May 23 15:17:40 2001 f4NKHeT07034 Subject: Re: Northeast visit f4NKHeT07035 Hi Bob, I'm over in Solon on the Kennebec. It's about halfway from Orono to Rangely. If this trip isn't good for you, we should plan on fishing the Kennebectogether sometime soon.I carry my own bamboo rods and gra#@ite rods also. I'm pretty new tomaking bamboo rods, so I'm always looking for someone to share ideas with. John K.Mountain Valley Flies -----Original Message----- Subject: Northeast visit Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed May 23 15:21:27 2001 f4NKLQT07293 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) f4NKLQT07294 Thanks so much for the info. John K.-----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has gottobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is the bestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this is dueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight to getupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive to theneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviouslymanypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin is notexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly what theyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read throughtheyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does all itsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a foot indiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over three feetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is based onits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based onthearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the large sideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rare indeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvested inthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in waterwhichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starch iswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is the mostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planning thesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far as Iknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used for scaffoldinginSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com from djhall@cisco.com Wed May 23 15:54:25 2001 f4NKsNT08897 Subject: Re: Northeast visit Bob,I would go with John K's idea with the Kennebec, hands down.Other ideas are to fish Middle Dam where Carrie Stevens caught the legendary 5.xx lb brook trout on a grey ghost, making this fly famous. She did this with a 9 foot FE Thomas (special i believe), already a famous maker of that time. Fish New Hampshire's Androscoggin (Andy) River (free NH fishing day on 6/2 BTW), camping at Mollidgewock State Park is right on the Andy river, and can day trip to Middle Dam in Maine as well. This time of year, you will find brookies and salmon everywhere in this area. I'd recommend spending some time here.The Battenkill river fishing isn't so good these day's from what i've heard. Stay away from the Rt313 stretch, favor areas in Sunderland, VT. Better yet, find out how the New York section of the Batt is. My favorite campground is "Camping on the Battenkill" in Arlington (i think). If the museum (and to a lesser extent, Orvis) wasn't here, i'd recommend a different course for your adventures (further north!).Once into New York, your out of my area of experience, unless you want to do the ausable up in Lake Placid. Good Luck, Dan At 11:43 AM 5/23/01 -0400, Robert Milardo wrote:Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from iank@ts.co.nz Wed May 23 16:26:11 2001 f4NLQ9T10146 Subject: Re: bamboo information Hi all, The comments on Bamboo reminded me that the local book fair is on nextweekend. Last year I picked up half a dozen copies of the NationalGeographic from 1980 which has the article and photographs on bamboo, androdmakers bamboo in particular. They cost all of 20 cents each . If anyone is interested in a copy let me know and I will try to obtain somethis year. They cost about $6 (US) to post . Ian from thogan@rochester.rr.com Wed May 23 18:25:06 2001 f4NNP5T13407 f4NNNEd05909; Subject: Re: Northeast visit If you make it to New York, I would highly recommend the sacred waters ofthe West Branch of the Ausable. Historic fly water, and still produces nicefish. Head for Lake Placid and the Ausable is all around. Anyone at thelocal fly shop can suggest whats working.The Salmon River is some big East water as well. RegardsTaylor----- Original Message ----- Subject: Northeast visit Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks likeJune4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and avisitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end upinState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it ishomewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill HallUniversity of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from rsgould@cmc.net Wed May 23 19:41:40 2001 f4O0fdT14618 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) Hi Andy and all,While I do commend those that do testing and research on other species ofbamboo, I feel that Andy's remarks are right on target especially if you'rebuilding a rod for a customer or for sale.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has gottobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is the bestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this isdueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight togetupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive to theneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviouslymanypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin is notexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly whattheyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read throughtheyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does allitsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a footindiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over three feetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is basedonits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based onthearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the largesideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rareindeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvested inthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in waterwhichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starchiswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is themostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planning thesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far asIknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used for scaffoldinginSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com from oakmere@carol.net Wed May 23 20:23:58 2001 f4O1NvT15360 Subject: RE: Force and Mass Hi Folks: Not to be a stickler but or a pain in the a--, but Mass: Metric Units are Kilograms, gramsEnglish Units are Slugs (pound force - sec squared / foot) Force: Metric Units are Newtons, dynesEnglish Units are Pounds, ounces 1 Newton = 1 Kilogram * 1 meter per second squared1 pound force = 0.03106 slug * 32.2 ft per second squared (on earth) Note: Weight/Force = mass * acceleration of gravityAlso: 1 slug = 32.2 pounds mass = 14.6 Kilograms Hope this helps and does not confuse. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed May 23 20:37:40 2001 f4O1beT15673 0000 (209.71.50.31) Subject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this would begreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposed moisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 23 20:55:15 2001 f4O1tET16115 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation jmpio@nhbm.com I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rod should cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of the caster. I think this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less "average" taper. Others?? from jteft@frontiernet.net Wed May 23 20:55:27 2001 f4O1tRT16120 0400 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Fw: Doc Update Thought you all would like to know.JimT----- Original Message ----- Subject: Doc Update Hey Y'all, Just got off the phone with Cherie - so far so good. Doc made it throughsurgery fine, made it through the night, and his liver appears to befunctioning. He's still sedated and they're planning start waking him uptomorrow. In the mean time he's responding things around him. Will be aday-to-day thing for a while. Doc's sister is doing good too - in a lot of pain as expected but she'sawake and talking. Cherie says she's tired but is hanging in there. I was going to post Doc & Cherie's home address to the list for cards andsuch but haven't been able to put my hands on it. I pretty sure I sent itto Claude a little while back. Sooo, Claude, if you would, post it to theList this evening instead of just sending it to me - that'll save a stepandeliminate the chance of me mis-transposing any of the numbers. Keep the thoughts and prayers coming. Steve Steve DavenportLawGIBB - Atlanta404-817-0170sdavenpo@lawco.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 23 21:20:03 2001 f4O2K2T16870 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers David,Talk to your local industrial bearing supply house. Many of them carryloctite products. Also, at least here, many of our auto parts stores carryit. Industrial supply houses like WW Granger may have it, also. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this wouldbegreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposedmoisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 23 21:20:23 2001 f4O2KNT16952 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,What about line weight? An 8' 1wt is not going to cast 80' without some shirt-ripping heroics, methinks. I recall watching some very competent casters trying to get past 30' with a one-weight cane.What is your experience regarding the light line weights (3-1)?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rod should cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of the caster. I think this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less"average" taper. Others?? from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 23 21:26:18 2001 f4O2QHT17268 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 23 May 2001 20:53:53 -0500 Subject: Fw: Rod Evaluation Absolutely right, if not even more than 10 times it's length! Not thatyou'd actually cast an 8 foot rod 80 feet in a fishing situation, but if itwon't do it in still air, then it will be hard to make a good accurate castinto the wind 40 feet away. Later,Bob I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rodshould cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of thecaster. Ithink this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less"average"taper. Others?? from iank@ts.co.nz Wed May 23 22:32:31 2001 f4O3WPT18410 Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers David, If you go to www.loctite.com/distributors/ you should be able to find alocal distributor. Incidentally, although I use 620, AJ mentioned he used ( from my memorywhich is deteriorating with age ) 640 and I think 680. The glue does not leave any green residual line. The glue only works whenair is excluded and is dependant on close fitting between the surfaces. Ifit is exposed to the air it will not bind. Maybe someone smarter then me canexplain why. Incidentally I should acknowledge that the tip to use Loctite came fromTerry ( the wind from the North ) on one of his visits to the list. Ian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this wouldbegreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposedmoisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed May 23 22:46:16 2001 f4O3kFT19283 Wed, 23 May 2001 20:45:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) Ray,Of course I agree wholeheartedly. I would never build a rod for a customer from anything less than the best tonkin cane I can get. My experiments withlocal cane have been just that -- experiments. Done for my ownenlightenment. Harry Ray Gould wrote: Hi Andy and all,While I do commend those that do testing and research on other species ofbamboo, I feel that Andy's remarks are right on target especially if you'rebuilding a rod for a customer or for sale.Ray----- Original Message -----From: "Andy Royer" Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:08 AMSubject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there hasgot tobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is thebestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this isdueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight togetupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive totheneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviouslymanypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin isnotexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly whattheyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read throughtheyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does allitsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a footindiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over threefeetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is basedonits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based onthearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the largesideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rareindeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvestedinthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in waterwhichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starchiswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is themostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planningthesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far asIknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used forscaffoldinginSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from richjez@enteract.com Wed May 23 23:01:25 2001 f4O41OT19745 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers --=====================_7529935==_.ALT An alternative to loctite, when you want it, is removable is clear nail polish or lacquer. It will hold as long as their is no longitudinal stress on a joint. In the service, we used to use it to hold bearings in place. When the bearing went out, a simple side tap on the bearing dislodged it. I am not sure how this applies to rod making but it seemed relevant.Rich Jezioro At 09:18 PM 5/23/01, Bob Nunley wrote:David,Talk to your local industrial bearing supply house. Many of them carryloctite products. Also, at least here, many of our auto parts stores carryit. Industrial supply houses like WW Granger may have it, also. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message -----From: David Rinker Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:35 PMSubject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this wouldbegreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposedmoisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):> --=====================_7529935==_.ALT An alternative to loctite, when you want it, is removable isclear nail polish or lacquer. It will hold as long as their is nolongitudinal stress on a joint. In the service, we used to use it to holdbearings in place. When the bearing went out, a simple side tap on thebearing dislodged it. I am not sure how this applies to rod making but itseemed relevant.Rich Jezioro At 09:18 PM 5/23/01, Bob Nunley wrote:David, stores carry also. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneinde=x.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: loctite 620 suppliers find a wouldbe exposedmoisture tube? Rich Jezioro @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_7529935==_.ALT-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 23 23:04:13 2001 f4O44CT19906 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot one weight is hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront to common sense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7 weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to the size of your forearm? from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu May 24 01:49:29 2001 f4O6nST22272 Wed, 23 May 2001 23:49:14 -0700 Thu, 24 May 2001 06:49:14 GMT Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers FILETIME=[A578DD40:01C0E41D] 609 should work but I haven't tried it. i also have not used 620. I have used 640 and 660 and both worked fine. 660 is a bit stronger and 640 ismore heat resistant and still strong enough. 640 is used by auto mechanics and is readily available at an auto parts store(a real one where mechanics who have to make a living buy their parts; ask your mechanic) and is marked as retaining compound. The number will be on the 6ml tube but it is small. 660 is available from a bearing supply house. I use only Loctite brand stuff. Ferrules are under too much stress and are too important to take even the smallest of unnecessary chances.A.J.Thramer From: "David Rinker" Subject: loctite 620 suppliersDate: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:35:18 -0400 Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this would begreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposed moisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu May 24 08:02:09 2001 f4OD28T25834 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,Senseable, as always. I agree about the one-weights and lean that way two weight as well.An excellent table. Thank you.To Digress: Have you noticed that in the past few years you don't see many graphite rods in the shorter lengths? 9' 4wts can be found but not 7' 4wt. See, for example, www.huntersangling.com, where out of seven rod suppliers there is only one rod under 8' (7'9") and few under 8'6"... the vast majority are 9' and above. It seems the tables have turned again back to the fly rod as the "long rod". BTW,has anyone tried a 9' 4wt in cane?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot one weight is hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront to common sense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7 weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to the sizeof your forearm? -- from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 24 08:59:58 2001 f4ODxvT28672 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Of course, this doesn't account account for those of us that couldn't throw80' with an 8' rod (or any other rod less than a cannon) if our livesdepended on it. -----Original Message----- Subject: Fw: Rod Evaluation Absolutely right, if not even more than 10 times it's length! Not thatyou'd actually cast an 8 foot rod 80 feet in a fishing situation, but if itwon't do it in still air, then it will be hard to make a good accurate castinto the wind 40 feet away. Later,Bob I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rodshould cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of thecaster. Ithink this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less"average"taper. Others?? from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 24 09:03:38 2001 f4OE3bT28920 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Reed, I still see plenty of short rods in the shops here in Idaho. Themarket is definitely tilted in favor of the 9' 5wt (a great all around rod around, and occasionally someone will actually have in stock a 6'6" 2 wt. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,Senseable, as always. I agree about the one-weights and lean thatway for two weight as well.An excellent table. Thank you.To Digress: Have you noticed that in the past few years you don'tsee many graphite rods in the shorter lengths? 9' 4wts can be found but not 7' 4wt. See, for example, www.huntersangling.com, where out of seven rod suppliers there is only one rod under 8' (7'9") and few under 8'6"... the vast majority are 9' and above. It seems the tables have turned again back to the fly rod as the "long rod". BTW,has anyone tried a 9' 4wt in cane?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot oneweight is hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront tocommon sense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7 weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to the sizeof your forearm? -- from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu May 24 09:13:37 2001 f4OEDaT29516 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: ferrule rules... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello, Are there any hard and fast rules on ferrule design?? ( i.e. wall =thickness, depth of slide, depth of bamboo..etc.) I appreciate any input. thanks Tom AusfeldRochester, NY Hello, Are there any hard and fast rules on ferrule = i.e. wall thickness, depth of slide, depth of bamboo..etc.) I appreciate any input. thanks Tom AusfeldRochester, NY from beadman@mac.com Thu May 24 09:25:34 2001 f4OEPXT00227 Subject: Speaking of ferrules... Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a note on who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL for the photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept was fascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 09:34:32 2001 f4OEYVT00729 Subject: Rod Evaluation/casting practice Bob,Actually there are times when you may have to make such a cast. Now granted they are more of the exception and not the rule. There are placeson the Muskegon River in Michigan where the larger trout are very wary because of the fishing pressure and I have had to cast to them a 72' flyline and 21' leader just so I would not put them down. These are the fish that have survived many seasons and are over the 20" range so they are very smart. These areas are usually in the slicker water of course but the situations do arise. Now mind you I would rather have a good 9' rod for these situations but I have used and will continue to use my 8' Leonard on this river. remember these times ARE the exception, most casts out there will be in the 35'-60' range. Casting is like any other sporting activity, if you are not practicing as much as you can you will only be a mediocre caster. Look at golfers, they come off the course during a tournament and go straight to the drivingrange or putting green. I had the oportunity to talk to Craig Stadler after a tournament and I asked him why if he was so good he did this? His reply, this is what keeps us so good constant practice. Being a casting instructor I can give you all some advice if you do not mind and do not take offense. Guys, practice at least 3 times a week if not more and give it at least a half hour if you can. Another thing, DO NOT practice with that wimpy 4-5 wght. Get out the 8 WGHT and practice. It will build up those casting muscles and you will get less fatigue when you do go out for the day with the 4-5wght for some trout. Plus if you do salmon and steelhead in the fall your muscles are already there for the challenge. One other thing you can put into your practice sessions is after you feel you have gotten down the basic rythm of your casting start doing some of the trick casts you will need on the stream. One day practice reach casts, not only right but left as well. Practice your double hauling or single hauling as well. The place to learn this stuff os in your yard not on the stream when that 20+ fish is in a difficult situation to get to.OK I am off my soap box here but I put this on the list because I hear a lot of you guys saying you suck at casting and to tell you the truth I used to suck too but persistant casting practice is how i got to be a casting instructor for the FFF. The day we did our testing there were a few guyswho were good casters who did not make it and I almost did not because mydouble hauling was off the mark a little. I went and practiced that and a half hour later they watched me again and said I had improved on it considerably and passed. That was many years ago and I still practice all the time, with an 8WGHT of course.WHEW. Windy,Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 09:38:16 2001 f4OEcFT01028 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation JM,There have always been the guys who will buy the 6' rod and the ones under the 8' mark. I have never cared much for short rods and never will. Now granted i do have a few rods in the 6'3" range (2) and the 7'6" range (2) but I could count on my hands how many times thise come out during theyear and have fingers left over. I have gone years without ever taking them out of their tubes. 8'-9' is my preference.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 09:52:44 2001 f4OEqhT01632 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation/casting practice rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu An aside : When I said practice with the 8 Wght I did not mean all of your practice should be with this rod just the bulk of it to build up muscle. Of course practice with the rods you do most of your fishing with as well. These are the rods you should practice your reach cast with (do use the 8 wght for dbl hlng tho) and all your other trickier casts. Maybe at one of the gatherings if someone wanted me to I could put on a casting clinic for all interested.Bret from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 11:38:54 2001 f4OGcrT05817 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Claude,That was me, and they are holding up great. Matter of fact, I havestarted selling the rods instead of just using them for myself.The original, a 2 wt 6 footer, did great and is now of the hands of anavid flyfisher in New York, who loves it. I have since sold 4 that wereferruled this way on 4 wt rods, and not a single problem. You can see somerough pictures (scanner was dying when i did this page) athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmI think there are some others out there that are using bamboo ferrules from time to time. Would be interesting to hear what their experiences arewith them. Later,Bob Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a noteon who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL forthe photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept wasfascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 11:53:52 2001 f4OGrpT06579 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation/casting practice Bret,I see your point and agree that practice casting is a MUST. I get mostof my practice on the rivers, as I usually fish at least 3 days a week, butthe "work" on the water cannot be replaced by lawn casting and practice,practice, practice.I have an old Hula Hoop in my back yard that is there for nothing morethan a target. I'll cast to it conventionally 20 or 30 times, then tiltright, tilt left, side arm, puddle cast, curve cast, etc, until I canconsistently hit the hula hoop or until my arm just completely gives out.This makes a lot of difference when you take your technique to the river,but even then, I wish they had a lawn with a hula hoop somewhere alongBeaver Creek, so I could get in an hour of "warm up" before I hit the water.As for rod length, I guess that all boils down to personal preference.Being just the opposite of you, of my personal rods, only one is over 7'long. and it's an 8' 6wt (AKA the Snake Rod to former SRG attendees). Theothers? a 5'6", a 6', and 4- 7'ers. I just don't have any need for thelonger rods with the kind of fishing I do. Of course my favorite kind offishing is "Commando Flyfishing" where you have to sneak up on crystal clearwater on your knees and lay a delicate cast on the water over the sagebrushyou're hiding behind, and for me, the short rods work much better for this.I don't much care for big water and rarely ever fish lakes, so the small,fast running streams are my favs and the short rods my preferred weapon.I'm sure if I had to cast 80 feet to a fish, on a constant basis, I'dhave a longer rod, but for the most part, my casts and the fish caught arein the 10 foot to 50 foot range, so I need a rod that will reach 50 feetwithout any effort, but that will cast a short leader and just a smallshowing of line out of the tip top, and the longer rods just don't do it forme.Besides, shorter rods assure that you get hung up in shorter trees and Ican't climb the way I used to, so must stick with my 6 footers for the mostpart! *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod Evaluation/casting practice Bob,Actually there are times when you may have to make such a cast. Nowgranted they are more of the exception and not the rule. There are placesonthe Muskegon River in Michigan where the larger trout are very warybecauseof the fishing pressure and I have had to cast to them a 72' flyline and21'leader just so I would not put them down. These are the fish that havesurvived many seasons and are over the 20" range so they are very smart.These areas are usually in the slicker water of course but the situationsdoarise. Now mind you I would rather have a good 9' rod for thesesituationsbut I have used and will continue to use my 8' Leonard on this river.remember these times ARE the exception, most casts out there will be inthe35'-60' range.Casting is like any other sporting activity, if you are not practicingasmuch as you can you will only be a mediocre caster. Look at golfers, theycome off the course during a tournament and go straight to the drivingrangeor putting green. I had the oportunity to talk to Craig Stadler after atournament and I asked him why if he was so good he did this? His reply,this is what keeps us so good constant practice.Being a casting instructor I can give you all some advice if you donotmind and do not take offense. Guys, practice at least 3 times a week ifnotmore and give it at least a half hour if you can. Another thing, DO NOTpractice with that wimpy 4-5 wght. Get out the 8 WGHT and practice. Itwillbuild up those casting muscles and you will get less fatigue when you dogoout for the day with the 4-5wght for some trout. Plus if you do salmonandsteelhead in the fall your muscles are already there for the challenge.Oneother thing you can put into your practice sessions is after you feel youhave gotten down the basic rythm of your casting start doing some of thetrick casts you will need on the stream. One day practice reach casts,notonly right but left as well. Practice your double hauling or singlehaulingas well. The place to learn this stuff os in your yard not on the streamwhen that 20+ fish is in a difficult situation to get to.OK I am off my soap box here but I put this on the list because I hearalot of you guys saying you suck at casting and to tell you the truth Iusedto suck too but persistant casting practice is how i got to be a castinginstructor for the FFF. The day we did our testing there were a few guyswhowere good casters who did not make it and I almost did not because mydoublehauling was off the mark a little. I went and practiced that and a halfhourlater they watched me again and said I had improved on it considerably andpassed. That was many years ago and I still practice all the time, withan8WGHT of course.WHEW.Windy,Bret from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu May 24 12:44:48 2001 f4OHilT08465 pri.pacificare.com 2001 17:47:07 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:43:48 -0700 Subject: Rods made of Moso It's been a while since I last posted anything. I must admit to a bit ofinattention to the Rodmakers list, I've undergone a huge shift in careers, from 18 years in the science end of the petroleum industry to the healthcare industry. I have been getting a few messages directly to my home AOL account askingabout the rods I made from Moso. Moso does make an ok rod. It is denser andtherefore heavier for the same size. This makes it a bit slower for the sametaper. You can compensate for this, but it makes for a slightly heavier rodto get the same action than a rod made from Tonkin. Working Moso is moredifficult, the pith isn't like the pith on Tonkin. Moso pith is hard likewood and more difficult to plane. I did a break test on Moso, and it doessplinter with separate fibers, but with the hard pith clinging to the fibersgiving it a chunky appearance rather than the hairlike paintbrush fibersthat Tonkin has. I would rate Moso somewhere between Tonkin and Calcutta,but since my experience with Calcutta is only with older rods it could bethat a new Calcutta rod made to the same taper would be faster than theCalcutta rods I have casted. My conclusions are if Tonkin became unavailable Moso would be ok, but aslong as there is Tonkin around, that's what I'll use. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu May 24 12:47:35 2001 f4OHlYT08736 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:47:18 -0700 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation f4OHlYT08739 I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then length ofthe fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have a short rodwhen maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees that envelope a lotof small streams. I also use that technique (can't remember if it's calledbow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold the fly between your fingers,pull back on the rod and launch the fly under overhanging brush. Short rodswork pretty well for that if you are only wanting to go 12'-15' out. Landingsmall trout on a light, small bamboo gives me a lot of enjoyment. I'm notsure line weight loads the rod much at these distances. The momentum ofthe rod itself probably has more to do with it. I just know I don't like the feelof a stout rod that will cast wonderfully at 60', but has no finesse at shortranges. If I'm fishing bigger water, or in the wind, then of course the 60'caster is first choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and small trout. Thesoft, full working finesse that probably makes it impractical beyond 40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found so far, but there aremany I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quite powerful Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable to mealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feels likean early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ring grip, thatmicro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got at theNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze reels. O.K.it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck out of it. A rod like this maynot be practical for typical fishing situations, but on 10' wide headwaters,where the largest trout are under 10" I think it would be a blast. Chris from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 12:58:52 2001 f4OHwpT09225 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 24 May 2001 12:26:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation/casting practice ...only one is over 7'long. and it's an 8' 6wt (AKA the Snake Rod to former SRG attendees) Since I posted that, I've had several emails wanting to know what the"Snake Rod" is, so to the list it goes.The Snake Rod is my 8' 6wt, more commonly known as my 8' Supreme (itsthe one that is the background on my website). It used to be my favoriterod. The first day I took it fishing, some 10 or so years ago, I waswalking from one pool to the next on a trail along the banks of the MountainFork river. I stopped in the middle of the trail to light a cigarette (yes,I smoke like a train... I have very few bad habits left these days, and Irefuse to give up my Budweiser and Marlboros) and while standing there,gazing down the trail, felt two quick thumps on my boot. I looked down andsaw one of the biggest copperhead snakes I've ever seen in my life (funnyhow they all look like they're 6 feet long and 6 inches in girth whenthey're trying to bite you). I was on his trail and he intended to move meoff of it.Well, my first reaction was to strike back, so I did. I took my brandnew, never had a fish caught on it, cane rod, jumped back a few feet andbegan to viciously frail the snake with the rod. Of course, the thin caneat the tip of the rod probably did no more than raise a whelp or two on thesnake, but he moved off the trail and gave it back to me.When he left, I looked at the tip of my rod and it was broken betweenthe tip top and first guide. The tiptop was broken and bent 45 degrees offto the guide side of the rod. I was sick to say the least! Here I was 90miles south of home, only had one rod with me, it being a single tip rod,and that time of year, the caddis fall from the sky like raindrops in midafternoon, and that was approaching quickly.In an emergency, you'll try anything, so I walked back to the truck, gotout my portable fly tying kit (a case containing about 50 pounds of toolsand materials), a bobbin, some brown nylon 8/0 thread and proceeded toweavethe splinters of the break back together. Satisfied that the splinters wereback where they belonged, I overwrapped the break (no glue of any kind onhand, of course) with the 8/0 thread, just as I would do with white silk ifI were at home, and then coated it with several coats of head cement... oneafter the other until I had a good build on the repaired section. Ithought, "This will get me through the day, but I'll need to take this apartwhen I get home and glue it back together with URAC, do a proper overwraponit".Well, the caddis started falling and I started catching fish. Thetailgate repair worked great and even with some good sized fish on the rod,it never waivered.When I got home, it was late, I was tired, so I just put the rod back inthe rack in the shop and forgot about it for the time being. A few dayslater, I got it out and cast it in the front yard. Well, the tip washolding up great. I decided to make this old cannon work hard and see if Icould tear up my "tailgate repair", but even double hauling and sending mostof a full line down the street in front of the house, the tip held together.Well, I just left it alone. The Snake Rod, as it became known at ourlocal flyfishing club, up until recently, would cast a full fly line with abroken tip repaired with fly head cement and 8/0 nylon tying thread... andNO GLUE! Did it finally fail? Nope, I just decided it was time to re-dothe old rod, so a few weeks ago, I took it apart to refinish it and put anew set of ferrules on it, so I guess I'll just go ahead and build a new tipwhile I'm at it... That poor old broken tip did well for a good decade, soI guess I can retire it now and let it rest in peace.Well, as Paul Harvey would say, "Now you know the REST of the story..."on the Snake Rod... Later,Bob from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu May 24 13:13:34 2001 f4OIDXT09998 pri.pacificare.com 2001 18:15:52 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:12:07 -0700 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Now that I've started again I can't stop!I do a lot of backpacking and fishing in small streams. This is thearrangement for rods I've settled with:I made a 4 piece "The Force" (8 ft.) and a 3 piece 5ft. parabolic. Both rodsfit in a 25 in. tube, and the tube fits in my backpack. The 5ft'er isperfect for dry fly fishing in small streams, but when I come upon a lake orwide meanders in an upper elevation meadow and need long casts, so far Ihave not seen anything (of the same length) that can out cast "The Force". Ihaven't felt the need for anything other than those two rods for a longtime.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then lengthof the fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have ashort rod when maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees thatenvelope a lot of small streams. I also use that technique (can'tremember if it's called bow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold thefly between your fingers, pull back on the rod and launch the fly underoverhanging brush. Short rods work pretty well for that if you are onlywanting to go 12'-15' out. Landing small trout on a light, small bamboogives me a lot of enjoyment. I'm not sure line weight loads the rod muchat these distances. The momentum of the rod itself probably has more todo with it. I just know I don't like the feel of a stout rod that willcast wonderfully at 60', but has no finesse at short ranges. If I'mfishing bigger water, or in the wind, then of course the 60' caster isfirst choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and smalltrout. The soft, full working finesse that probably makes it impracticalbeyond 40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found sofar, but there are many I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quitepowerful for it's short length. Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable tomealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feelslike an early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ringgrip, that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer Igot at the Northwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbesbronze reels. O.K. it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck outof it. A rod like this may not be practical for typical fishingsituations, but on 10' wide headwaters, where the largest trout are under10" I think it would be a blast. Chris from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 24 13:16:28 2001 f4OIGRT10245 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do the same kind of fishing, but in the same day might fish the mainstemand the headwaters. Thus the 7' 4 wt. 2 pc. was the first rod I built. Inthe works is a 7' 4wt. 3-piece specifically for backpacking. but Icertainly know you are after in a really short 2 or 3 wt. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then length ofthe fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have a shortrod when maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees that envelopealot of small streams. I also use that technique (can't remember if it'scalled bow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold the fly between yourfingers, pull back on the rod and launch the fly under overhanging brush.Short rods work pretty well for that if you are only wanting to go 12'-15'out. Landing small trout on a light, small bamboo gives me a lot ofenjoyment. I'm not sure line weight loads the rod much at these distances.The momentum of the rod itself probably has more to do with it. I just knowI don't like the feel of a stout rod that will cast wonderfully at 60', buthas no finesse at short ranges. If I'm fishing bigger water, or in thewind, then of course the 60' caster is first choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and small trout.The soft, full working finesse that probably makes it impractical beyond40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found so far, butthere are many I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quitepowerful for it's short length. Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable to mealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feels likean early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ring grip,that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got at theNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze reels.O.K. it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck out of it. A rodlike this may not be practical for typical fishing situations, but on 10'wide headwaters, where the largest trout are under 10" I think it would be ablast. Chris from rmoon@ida.net Thu May 24 13:44:44 2001 f4OIiiT11548 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Welcome back DarrylRalph from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 13:51:13 2001 f4OIpCT11854 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation The leonard bamboo that I fish on the big water does have the capability of making the 10 ft cast as well and even on this big water sometimes I only need a 10-15 ft cast for a certain riser. I was not trying to make anyone switch to longer rods or shorter rods for that mater. I just stated my preference and if anyone thought I was trying to ram this down their throat I am sorry. Like I said some people will always buy the 6' rod no matter what the status quo is doing. i have em I use em when the situation warrants it..B from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 14:35:22 2001 f4OJZLT13581 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Welcome back Darryl. We've been wondering where you were. Thanks fortheupdate on the Moso. Hopefully relations between China and the US willremain such that we won't have to worry about the availability of Tonkin. Bob ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Now that I've started again I can't stop!I do a lot of backpacking and fishing in small streams. This is thearrangement for rods I've settled with:I made a 4 piece "The Force" (8 ft.) and a 3 piece 5ft. parabolic. Bothrodsfit in a 25 in. tube, and the tube fits in my backpack. The 5ft'er isperfect for dry fly fishing in small streams, but when I come upon a lakeorwide meanders in an upper elevation meadow and need long casts, so far Ihave not seen anything (of the same length) that can out cast "The Force".Ihaven't felt the need for anything other than those two rods for a longtime.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then lengthof the fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have ashort rod when maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees thatenvelope a lot of small streams. I also use that technique (can'tremember if it's called bow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold thefly between your fingers, pull back on the rod and launch the fly underoverhanging brush. Short rods work pretty well for that if you are onlywanting to go 12'-15' out. Landing small trout on a light, small bamboogives me a lot of enjoyment. I'm not sure line weight loads the rodmuchat these distances. The momentum of the rod itself probably has moretodo with it. I just know I don't like the feel of a stout rod that willcast wonderfully at 60', but has no finesse at short ranges. If I'mfishing bigger water, or in the wind, then of course the 60' caster isfirst choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and smalltrout. The soft, full working finesse that probably makes it impracticalbeyond 40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found sofar, but there are many I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quitepowerful for it's short length. Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable tomealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feelslike an early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ringgrip, that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer Igot at the Northwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbesbronze reels. O.K. it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heckoutof it. A rod like this may not be practical for typical fishingsituations, but on 10' wide headwaters, where the largest trout areunder10" I think it would be a blast. Chris from horsesho@ptd.net Thu May 24 18:28:49 2001 f4ONSnT20156 0000 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation I like rods 5' to 8'. I can somewhat stomach an 8 1/2'er for rivers such astheDelaware but a 9'er is out of the question.. The main thing with short rods (61/2' and under) is the ability to cast the leader and a couple feet of line. A25' cast with such a rod in small streams is a long cast. Long rods 8' and 81/2'need to cast 25' to an entire line. 7' - 7 1/2' should cast 15' to 60' fairlyeasily. Hope I don't make any enemys but I hate 9' rods. If you like them"morepower to you" Marty Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: JM,There have always been the guys who will buy the 6' rod and the onesunder the 8' mark. I have never cared much for short rods and never will.Now granted i do have a few rods in the 6'3" range (2) and the 7'6" range(2)but I could count on my hands how many times thise come out during theyearand have fingers left over. I have gone years without ever taking them outof their tubes. 8'-9' is my preference.Bret from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu May 24 18:39:08 2001 f4ONd7T20506 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation But that's because I enjoy the casting primarily. When I nymph (which ismore than 50% of the time), I high-stick, and my two favorite rods are 10'and 11'9". It has nothing to do with casting pleasure in this case. It haseverything to do with getting a perfect dead-drift. Which is what nymphingis all about to me. Long rod, nice tight tuck cast, and hold all the lineoff the water that I can........ Again, a matter of personal preference -- TAM : ) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation I like rods 5' to 8'. I can somewhat stomach an 8 1/2'er for rivers such astheDelaware but a 9'er is out of the question.. The main thing with short rods(61/2' and under) is the ability to cast the leader and a couple feet of line.A25' cast with such a rod in small streams is a long cast. Long rods 8' and 81/2'need to cast 25' to an entire line. 7' - 7 1/2' should cast 15' to 60'fairlyeasily. Hope I don't make any enemys but I hate 9' rods. If you like them"morepower to you" Marty from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 24 19:39:47 2001 f4P0dkT21297 Thu, 24 May 2001 21:38:59 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Claude,I think that was Bob Nunley, don't have the site handy but I'm sure ifBob will respond.Here is another link to a Danish builder that uses a bamboo ferrule,interesting site and a good read. The guys name is Bjarne Fries (??I think??) .Hereis the link:http://www.fries-rods.dk/index.html Let me know how you make out as I'm thinking of trying one myself, Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 24 19:46:52 2001 f4P0kpT21563 Thu, 24 May 2001 21:46:05 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation --------------D188E8963461A8E9CCA3EFB6 Chris,now we're talkin! Do you realize some women are making good moneytalking like that to guys on the phone ;^)Shawn "Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable tome also. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feels likean early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ring grip, thatmicro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got at theNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze reels. O.K.it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck out of it. A rod like this maynot be practical for typical fishing situations, but on 10' wide headwaters,where the largest trout are under 10" I think it would be a blast." Chris --------------D188E8963461A8E9CCA3EFB6 Chris, talkin!Do you realize some women are making good money talking like that to guys Shawn"Packing into large canyonsmakes that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got attheNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze A rod like this may not be practical for typical fishing situations, buton 10' wide headwaters, where the largest trout are under 10" I think itwould be a blast."Chris --------------D188E8963461A8E9CCA3EFB6-- from flytyr@southshore.com Thu May 24 19:48:22 2001 f4P0mLT21704 f4P0ovV22372 Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Tony Spezio wrote: Claude,Myself and a good number of others have cast this rod, It is a sweet littlerod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Claude,That was me, and they are holding up great. Matter of fact, I havestarted selling the rods instead of just using them for myself.The original, a 2 wt 6 footer, did great and is now of the hands of anavid flyfisher in New York, who loves it. I have since sold 4 that wereferruled this way on 4 wt rods, and not a single problem. You can seesomerough pictures (scanner was dying when i did this page) athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmI think there are some others out there that are using bambooferrules from time to time. Would be interesting to hear what their experiencesarewith them. Later,Bob Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a noteon who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL forthe photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept wasfascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from cadams46@juno.com Thu May 24 21:44:53 2001 f4P2irT23453 22:43:50 EDT Subject: Northern Ohio I will be spending some time, about a month, in Northern Ohio near theToldedo Sandusky area. Is there anyone on the list who lives around thatarea and would be willing to do some fishing or show me around their shopI'd greatly appreicate it. ThanksSincerely, C.R. Adams from flyfish@defnet.com Thu May 24 22:39:54 2001 f4P3drT24188 Subject: Re:Northern ,Ohio This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I live in northwest Ohio, about 45mins away from Toledo. If you would =like to visit me ,you are more than welcome. We could also fish the Mad =River. And you could check out my rod making shop. My computer will be =down startingFriday morning the 25th, but will be back up down the system. Just let me know and I'll get back to you after this =weekend.Tony Miller I live in northwest Ohio, about= from Toledo. If you would like to visit me ,you are more than welcome. = also fish the Mad River. And you could check out my rod making shop. My = will be down startingFriday morning the = will be back up getting = in that room and have to tear down the system. Just let me know and I'll = back to you after this weekend.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from flyfish@defnet.com Thu May 24 22:46:20 2001 f4P3kJT24453 Subject: Oops! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Sorry guys hit the wrong button.Meant to hit reply. Hope that I didn't mess any body up with html.Tony Sorry guys hit the wrong =button.Meant to hit reply. Hope that I didn't = body up with html.Tony from seanmcs@ar.com.au Fri May 25 00:34:21 2001 f4P5XxT25973 Fri, 25 May 2001 15:33:47 +1000 Will Spry , Turplin Dixon ,Tony Young , Tony Spezio,Tony DiMauro , Tom Fox,"support@flyshop.com" ,"store@us.britannica.com" ,Steve Rosten ,Steve Coster ,Solange Leunckens ,Sebastian Gross , Ron Shanaver,Rodmakers info ,Rodmakers ,Ritchie Stevenson ,"rcurry@ttlc.net" , Ray Gould ,Photo-Graphic Systems , Philip Deer,Peter Pengilley ,Peter McKean ,Peter Bishop ,Paul X Coulombe ,Patrick Mullen ,Paolo Miurin ,"Mouche.com" , Molly McGrath,Mike Timbrell ,Michele McSharry ,Melissa Borgo , Mark Lee,Malcolm Halstead ,"Kevin M. Bell" ,Justine Humphry , John Keesing,Jodie Muston , Jim Mein,Janet Ellis , Jane Ree ,Jan Nystrom ,Ian Kearney ,"I.Stadler" , Hugh Knox ,Grahame Ellis , Fred,Fields Wicker-Miurin ,Exodus Fundraising ,Exodus Foundation ,"etrade_australia@etrade.com.au" ,Dr P J M McEwan ,Douglas Johnson , Don Wyllie,Dick Boyd , Dennis & Lyla Fox,Dawn van der Meulen ,David Prentice ,David Grevengoed ,David Crownshaw ,Daisy Barrett ,Claire McSharry , Chris Bogart,"CATPAWFOTO@aol.com" ,Bruno Schicht ,Bristol Owners Club , Bristol Forum ,Bob Pulsford ,Bill Crews , Bill Ballan ,aradoia , Ann Dinning,Andy Royer , Andrew Isaacson,Andrew Harris , Andrew Blow,Ahshfield Mission Parish Subject: e-mail address FILETIME=[460F4DC0:01C0E4DC] Hi: As from now my new e-mail address is: seanmcs@iprimus.com.au. Antoinette's address is unchanged for the present. Sean McSharry from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri May 25 06:21:42 2001 f4PBLfT29771 mail.cyberport.com Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation All, This past coupla years, in graphite (yea, yea - I know; no cussing on thissite), I've built quite a few 7'6" in 4/5 and am now in the process ofbuilding a 6'1" in 3. I'm seeing the requests for short come from folks thatfish medium to small streams. Also, most want a moderate action so thattheycan enjoy the smaller fish. Some of my hard-core 9' 5 wt fast fanaticfriends are starting to look at 8' and the 7'6'ers for the San Juan. Ifyou've got any casting ability, the shorter rods do just fine, and it's surenice to handle such light weight rods. I do like the fast actions forchunking lead and nymphing; the moderates and slow just flat run out ofsteam at about 30' or so. Anyway, my two cents ...... Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,Senseable, as always. I agree about the one-weights and lean that way fortwo weight as well.An excellent table. Thank you.To Digress: Have you noticed that in the past few years you don't seemany graphite rods in the shorter lengths? 9' 4wts can be found but not7' 4wt. See, for example, www.huntersangling.com, where out of seven rodsuppliers there is only one rod under 8' (7'9") and few under 8'6"...the vast majority are 9' and above. It seems the tables have turnedagain back to the fly rod as the "long rod". BTW,has anyone tried a 9'4wt in cane?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot oneweightis hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront tocommonsense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to thesize ofyour forearm? -- from cattanac@wmis.net Fri May 25 09:45:21 2001 f4PEjET04798 Subject: Re: Hexrod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Jim -Somehow I lost the index at my website - and with the new job I have =I haven't been able to rebuild ti - in you click on the URL listed below =it should take you to the page where you can download the new Windows = http://www.wcattanachrodco.com/hexrod/hexset.htm Wayne Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 10:21 AMSubject: Hexrod Dear Wayne, Just purchased new version of your 'bible' on rod making. I =came to the web page hoping to download 'Hexrod' as told, to look it =over before attending Ted Knott's meeting at Bellwood tomorrow I bought your first edition in 1993 but at that time I had =an apple computer so I could not use the disc included. I now have an =IBM clone with windows 98. Can you help? =thanks, Jim Boone (jeboone@home.com) Jim - = website - and with the new job I have I haven't been able to rebuild ti = click on the URL listed below it should take you to the page where you = http://www.wcat=tanachrodco.com/hexrod/hexset.htm Wayne ----- Original Message ----- James= Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 =10:21 AMSubject: Hexrod Wayne, purchased new version of your 'bible' on rod making. I came to the web = hoping to download 'Hexrod' as told, to look it over before attending = Knott's meeting at Bellwood tomorrow computer so I could not use the disc included. I now have an IBM clone = windows 98. = from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri May 25 11:23:03 2001 f4PGN2T08386; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:22:55 -0700 Rick Crenshaw , Charlie Curro,Dennis Higham ,Mike Biondo , Ken Cole Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2001 Friends, Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but registration forthe SRG 2001 scheduled for October 25-27 in Mtn. Home,Arkansas http://www.curro.net/srg2001/infoPage.html isfull. We have over 50 folks who have paid theirRegistration fees, and are waiting to hear from about twodozen participants from previous years. A very fewadditional spots will probably open up if some of those whoparticipated in previous years choose not to attend thisyear. Therefore, we're now taking names for a waiting list. If you would like to be placed on the waiting list, letme know at . I'll reply to your notetelling you where you stand on the waiting list. Thanks,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from EESweet@aol.com Fri May 25 15:54:58 2001 f4PKsvT17103 May 2001 16:54:43 -0400 Subject: Poor man's quad Hi All, Lately I've been considering making a PMQ. I have some leftovers fromprevious rods, not enough for hex Frankenstein rod, but certainly enough fora PMQ. Just one problem, without the use of a planing form, how do I ensurethe taper is accurate? Not being a MHM owner, it's just me and my 9 1/2... TIA Eric from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri May 25 17:58:41 2001 f4PMwfT19836 2001 15:58:37 PDT Subject: Re: Poor man's quad Eric,I'm working on that very problem myself right now.What I'm doing is getting the pieces to a consistentthickness first that is .006 larger than the largestdimension, heat-treating, then removing the enamel.This should bring it close to the final on one end.Then using a step-like technique take 5" stations downto within .002 of the final. Then use scraping to evenit all out and get the final taper. Not sure if thiswill work. I'll be interested to see what TomSmithwick has to say since he's the acknowledgedexpert on 2-strips. Bill Walters--- EESweet@aol.com wrote:Hi All, Lately I've been considering making a PMQ. I havesome leftovers from previous rods, not enough forhex Frankenstein rod, but certainly enough for aPMQ. Just one problem, without the use of a planingform, how do I ensure the taper is accurate? Notbeing a MHM owner, it's just me and my 9 1/2... TIA Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri May 25 18:03:29 2001 f4PN3ST20055 2001 16:03:28 PDT Interested in straightening tricks anyone has. Findingit slow going with a PMQ. Soaking has helped and I'mgoing to try a test with clamping and my oven to seeif I can get the cane to straighten out under thepressure of clamps. Anyone have a lot of success withstraightening thicker strips? Any tips would begreatly appreciated. Thanks. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 25 19:14:12 2001 f4Q0EBT20955 Subject: Dip tube diameter I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2". I'll be varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will this pose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri May 25 21:01:06 2001 f4Q215T22131 Subject: Re: Dip tube diameter Rich,I have been using a 1 1/2" dia. tube for many years and have had notroublegetting the rods into it. That is plenty big.Ed Hartzell RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2". I'llbe varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will thispose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from horsesho@ptd.net Fri May 25 22:10:08 2001 f4Q3A8T22977 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Dip tube diameter Hi Rich, I use 1 1/4" ID pipe. I am very happy with the results and it takesalot less Varnish/ Poly to fill it. I of course make only Trout rods. Marty RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2". I'llbe varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will thispose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat May 26 10:41:07 2001 f4QFf7T00571 +0000 Subject: Test Sorry for the bandwidth folks. Just wanted to see if this thing's on... Dennis from robert.kope@prodigy.net Sat May 26 12:14:34 2001 f4QHEXT01622 f4QHEWp128768;Sat, 26 May 2001 13:14:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Dip tube diameter I use a 1" PVC tube with no direct problems because of the size. The nicething about it is that it only takes 1 qt. of varnish to fill it to a depthif 4 ft. The only drawback I found is that butt sections displace enoughvarnish to raise the level an inch or more, so the level of varnish has tobe well below the top of the tube. I solved that problem by adding a 1" to2" reducing bushing with a short piece of 2" diameter PVC on the top. Thatincreased the cost of my dip tube by about 500%, but since it originallycost less than $1, I think it was well worth the expense ;^) -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dip tube diameter I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2".I'llbe varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will thispose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from JANSNOWRICHARDS@aol.com Sat May 26 13:05:49 2001 f4QI5mT02442 Subject: Loctite products --part1_102.3ca33ef.28414a71_boundary Any of the Loctite green retaining adhesives will work well. Another retaining product is Loctite 291 which is a very thin viscosity, and will wick into very tight fits in parts that are already assembled. The loctite anaerobic adhesives are much stronger and tougher (after they have cured) than the nail polish type of adhesives someone mentioned. Also they cure diferently. The Loctite anaerobic adhesives start to cure after they are removed from a source of oxygen. The nail polish type of adhesives drywhen they are exposed to air. In a tight fit they would have trouble drying. They dry by solvent evaporation which may leave some voids (holes) in the joint. The Loctite products are essentially 100% solid, and after they are cured, leave no voids. This is from a former Loctite sales engineer (and rodmaker). Janice Richards --part1_102.3ca33ef.28414a71_boundary Any of the Loctite green retaining product is Loctite 291 which is a very thin viscosity, and will loctite anaerobic adhesives are much stronger and tougher (after they havecured) they cure they are adhesives dry when They dry by solvent evaporation which may leave some voids (holes) inthe they are engineer (and --part1_102.3ca33ef.28414a71_boundary-- from EESweet@aol.com Sat May 26 13:31:12 2001 f4QIVBT02890 Subject: PMQ --part1_c9.106888e3.2841506a_boundary Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about the PMQ. With all that help I think I just might be able to put together something that's fishable, and maybe even not too ugly to look at... Thanks again, Eric --part1_c9.106888e3.2841506a_boundary Thanks to everyone who help I think I just might be able to put together something that'sfishable, and maybe even not too ugly to look at... Thanks again, Eric --part1_c9.106888e3.2841506a_boundary-- from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sat May 26 21:43:07 2001 f4R2h6T07874 2001 19:43:06 PDT Subject: Test Test, please delete. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun May 27 06:23:16 2001 f4RBNFT13187 +0100 Subject: Two Strip Quads Ok Chaps here's one for you in the know ;Where can one ( or who has )find details on how to build Two StripQuads?In anticipation........Paul from channer@frontier.net Sun May 27 07:12:35 2001 f4RCCYT13795 Subject: Re: Two Strip Quads Paul;I belive it's in The Best of the Planing form. Basicaly, as I remember,you free-hand plane the taper on the pith sides of 2 strips, glue themtogether , then do the same to the 2 sides, a few passes too many andit's a line weight lighter, a few shy and it's heavier.John "paul.blakley" wrote: Ok Chaps here's one for you in the know ;Where can one ( or who has )find details on how to build Two StripQuads?In anticipation........Paul from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun May 27 07:35:57 2001 f4RCZuT14134 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: To Ed Miller - others please delete Ed,I tried to reply to your email, but AOL bounces my messages as . Do you have another email address?-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from rvenneri@ulster.net Sun May 27 15:16:54 2001 f4RKGrT19336 0400 Subject: Nickle silver Hi guys. Im am buying a large lot of nickle silver tubing. I would bewilling to sell some to any of you looking to make your own reel seats.The tubing is .750 OD and .584 ID. This is a thick wall tubing made just betteri price. I will need to do this asap as the manufacturer is makingit now and if I can buy more while he is I can get it cheaper. Any oneinterested contact me off list. I will sell as little as you want.Iamsorry for the bandwidth and if I am out of line with this post let meknow. http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882 from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun May 27 17:23:20 2001 f4RMNJT20851 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Nickle silver Not at all out of the line!!! What have made everybody so afraid????I should have bought some of You, but I have spent all my $ on silk lines:-O regardsdanny from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sun May 27 19:02:01 2001 f4S01uT21980 Mon, 28 May 2001 10:01:51 +1000 Subject: email address FILETIME=[65C44F60:01C0E709] Hi: This may be overkill, but I am trying to let you know that I changed seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Sean McSharry from sats@gte.net Sun May 27 21:01:47 2001 f4S21lT23152 ; id UAA115034358 Subject: Why are fly rods tapered? I know, I know, it seems self evident. But I've been trying to put it into words. It doesn't seem as easy as when Ifirst started. Thoughts? ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from iank@ts.co.nz Mon May 28 00:47:04 2001 f4S5knT25838 2001 17:38:05 +1200 Subject: Marty's binder This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Guys and Gals, I had Dutch rodmaker Marty Maas drop in to see me over the summer and ,asusual , we got around to discussing the difficulties of binding rods. Martyexplained to me the type of binder he was using. It was based on a design hehad been given by a old timer Dutch rodmaker. The simplicity of it appealedto me and Marty sent me some drawings on his return to Holland. I tried it last weekend on a rod I was making up and obtained a straightblank with very little twist. I thought it may be of interest to a few ofyou so have set out the details below.It is so simple it is almost a little difficult to explain. I will endeavourto attach Marty's diagram but as my son's are not here to help their poorold Dad on the computor blame me if it does not come through. ( Those whoattend the Southern Hemisphere gathering in March next year will be able tosee this binder in action. ) The principal of the binder is very simple, and the materials cost about$10. You also need a variable speed drill with a reverse direction knob. Youneed a section of hard plastic tube (Metal such as aluminium would also dobut it may be more expensive), about 1/2 inch in diameter, and a length of3" by 2" timber ( or similar) about 4'8" long.The plastic tube I used is the ducting used for house wiring but I saw asimilar hot water pipe tubing. You also need some hooks to hold the tubeonto the wood. I just used half a dozen "cup hooks" which were bolted intothe timber and the end of the cup hack sawed off. The concept is that youneed to hold the tube onto the timber for stability but have one side of thetube unobstructed. In hindsight it may be easiest just to epoxy it on to thetimber. The reason for having one side of the tube unobstructed is that you need tocut a slit in the tube the length of the tube. I used a thick circular diskon a Diemal tool to cut this groove but a small saw at a low angle would dothe job or a saw bench. The slit needs to be sanded back a little to give around , non thread cutting edge to the slit. The thickness of the slit needsto be about .020 to .035 , enough to take the binding thread. The tube ismounted so that there is about 4" of timber overhang at each end of thetube. Binding is then easy. The freshly glued blank, held with a few cord ties ormasking tape, is put into the tube with an inch or so protruding. Cover theprotuding end ( thicker end of the blank) with some clear film and attachthe chuck of the drill to it. Tie the binding thread to the blank in frontof the chuck and then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill onat slow speed after you lead the thread into the slit. I had the thread on afly tying bobbin and just used my hand for tension but I am sure there is abetter arrangement that can be made. While the rod is turning in the tubethe thread is lead along the length of the tube , in the slit. When the endis reached , and this does require a little co-ordination ( yelling) withthe drill operator to move the rod section back so that the overhang of therod length is bound and then poked out the end to be tied off. Then back to the chuck end and tie the thread again, reverse the drilldirection , and do a second binding run up the tube, this takes out most ofthe twist, then tie off again. Then run the drill at high speed in one direction for 10 seconds, reversethe direction , and run at high speed in the opposite direction for 10seconds. The rod section came out straight and with very little twist. This binder may not be ideal for very light tips, but I was doing a .070 tipand it was ok. It may be easier to have a seperate tube for each rod lengthbut they only take about a hour to build ( less if you have a saw bench tocut the slit and epoxy the tube onto the wooden support) so that is not ahassle. The concept is very simple and obvious and considerably simplier as a firstbinder then binders such as a Garrision. I have checked my effort at scanning and the pic does not show up too wellon the screen, but prints fine for those who may be interested. Ian from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon May 28 07:27:14 2001 f4SCRCT29480 f4SCQxc61260 Subject: sloppy ferrules When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thing youcan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; but somehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from horsesho@ptd.net Mon May 28 08:52:01 2001 f4SDq0T01183 sender ) Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules I have squeezed the female ferrule in a standard hand drill chuck minus thedrill (this must be done VERY slightly or the male won't enter). This is only atemperary solution as the female over time will open back up with use. Marty Peter McKean wrote: When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thing youcan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from channer@frontier.net Mon May 28 08:52:05 2001 f4SDq4T01188 Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Peter;There is another option, if you know how to do it yourself, or haveaccess to a plating shop, and that is to have the male plated with thesame metal it is made of , then re-fit it. I have used both a lathechuck and a drill chuck to tighten females, both of them have a space atthe back of the chuck that the welt on the female will fit into. I turnthe ferrule and squeeze it in 3 places(for a total of 9 pressure points)to keep it as close to round as possible. Cheap old production ferrulestighten with very little pressure, new Super Z types require a lot morework and care to tighten.John Peter McKean wrote: When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thing youcan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from channer@frontier.net Mon May 28 08:55:14 2001 f4SDtDT01603 Subject: Re: Marty's binder Ian;Ingenious! If I didn't already have a binder that works very well, Iwould be out in the shop making one of those right now instead ofwasting time on the computer.John Ian Kearney wrote: Guys and Gals, I had Dutch rodmaker Marty Maas drop in to see me over the summer and ,asusual , we got around to discussing the difficulties of binding rods. Martyexplained to me the type of binder he was using. It was based on a designhehad been given by a old timer Dutch rodmaker. The simplicity of it appealedto me and Marty sent me some drawings on his return to Holland. I tried it last weekend on a rod I was making up and obtained a straightblank with very little twist. I thought it may be of interest to a few ofyou so have set out the details below.It is so simple it is almost a little difficult to explain. I will endeavourto attach Marty's diagram but as my son's are not here to help their poorold Dad on the computor blame me if it does not come through. ( Thosewhoattend the Southern Hemisphere gathering in March next year will be abletosee this binder in action. ) The principal of the binder is very simple, and the materials cost about$10. You also need a variable speed drill with a reverse direction knob. Youneed a section of hard plastic tube (Metal such as aluminium would also dobut it may be more expensive), about 1/2 inch in diameter, and a length of3" by 2" timber ( or similar) about 4'8" long.The plastic tube I used is the ducting used for house wiring but I saw asimilar hot water pipe tubing. You also need some hooks to hold the tubeonto the wood. I just used half a dozen "cup hooks" which were bolted intothe timber and the end of the cup hack sawed off. The concept is that youneed to hold the tube onto the timber for stability but have one side of thetube unobstructed. In hindsight it may be easiest just to epoxy it on to thetimber. The reason for having one side of the tube unobstructed is that you needtocut a slit in the tube the length of the tube. I used a thick circular diskon a Diemal tool to cut this groove but a small saw at a low angle would dothe job or a saw bench. The slit needs to be sanded back a little to give around , non thread cutting edge to the slit. The thickness of the slit needsto be about .020 to .035 , enough to take the binding thread. The tube ismounted so that there is about 4" of timber overhang at each end of thetube. Binding is then easy. The freshly glued blank, held with a few cord ties ormasking tape, is put into the tube with an inch or so protruding. Cover theprotuding end ( thicker end of the blank) with some clear film and attachthe chuck of the drill to it. Tie the binding thread to the blank in frontof the chuck and then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill onat slow speed after you lead the thread into the slit. I had the thread on afly tying bobbin and just used my hand for tension but I am sure there is abetter arrangement that can be made. While the rod is turning in the tubethe thread is lead along the length of the tube , in the slit. When the endis reached , and this does require a little co-ordination ( yelling) withthe drill operator to move the rod section back so that the overhang of therod length is bound and then poked out the end to be tied off. Then back to the chuck end and tie the thread again, reverse the drilldirection , and do a second binding run up the tube, this takes out most ofthe twist, then tie off again. Then run the drill at high speed in one direction for 10 seconds, reversethe direction , and run at high speed in the opposite direction for 10seconds. The rod section came out straight and with very little twist. This binder may not be ideal for very light tips, but I was doing a .070 tipand it was ok. It may be easier to have a seperate tube for each rod lengthbut they only take about a hour to build ( less if you have a saw bench tocut the slit and epoxy the tube onto the wooden support) so that is not ahassle. The concept is very simple and obvious and considerably simplier as a firstbinder then binders such as a Garrision. I have checked my effort at scanning and the pic does not show up too wellon the screen, but prints fine for those who may be interested. Ian ------------------------------------------------------------------------Name: marty2.gifmarty2.gif Type: GIF Image (image/gif)Encoding: base64 from robert.kope@prodigy.net Mon May 28 09:45:51 2001 f4SEjpT02728 Mon, 28 May 2001 10:45:41 -0400 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Peter, The best luck I've had is with a method I got from the list. Using a pieceof lead as a hammer and another as an anvil, simply tap the outside of thefemale ferrule as you rotate it. Check the fit frequently as you do this.I've used this method a couple of times with success, and seen no marring orapparent distortion of the ferrule. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: sloppy ferrules When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thingyoucan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from Canerods@aol.com Mon May 28 11:37:37 2001 f4SGbaT04067 Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_60.ee8dffc.2843d8c0_boundary Peter, You can also have success by squeezing the MALE ferrule's slide in a 3 jaw chuck on a portable drill. Use the chuck key to tighten up on the slide and test fit often. I realign the ferrule into the chuck so that the jaws are working on the same spots each time. Believe it or not, but you can dimple out the slide a few 0.0001" without out leaving a mark on the slide. OBTW, NS contains no Ag so Ni-Ag would be incorrect shorthand for this material. Don Burns --part1_60.ee8dffc.2843d8c0_boundary Peter, You can also have success by squeezing the MALE ferrule's slide in a 3jaw chuck on a portable drill. Use the chuck key to tighten up on the slideand test fit often. I realign the ferrule into the chuck so that the jaws are working on the same spots each time. Believe it or not, but you can dimple out the slide a few 0.0001" withoutout leaving a mark on the slide. OBTW, NS contains no Ag so Ni-Ag would be incorrect shorthand for this material. Don Burns --part1_60.ee8dffc.2843d8c0_boundary-- from iank@ts.co.nz Mon May 28 14:58:26 2001 f4SJwPT06568 Tue, 29 May 2001 07:54:15 +1200 Subject: Re: Marty's binder John, I have no doubt that someone , in the best rodmakers tradition, will workout a way of needing a geared worm drive to move the thread holder alongthepipe, a variable speed foot pedal to control the speed , a coupling to drivethe rotation from a large and essential lathe, and some anti-twist rotationgauge. :)) Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Marty's binder Ian;Ingenious! If I didn't already have a binder that works very well, Iwould be out in the shop making one of those right now instead ofwasting time on the computer.John from anglport@con2.com Mon May 28 15:12:54 2001 f4SKCrT06981 Subject: Re: Marty's binder ...and some anti-twist rotation... Maybe a gyroscopic add-on will do that?? It works for helicopters.Perhapsif we could hollow the shaft and build in INTO the rod.... Art At 07:48 AM 05/29/2001 +1200, Ian Kearney wrote:John, I have no doubt that someone , in the best rodmakers tradition, will workout a way of needing a geared worm drive to move the thread holder alongthepipe, a variable speed foot pedal to control the speed , a coupling to drivethe rotation from a large and essential lathe, >gauge. :)) Ian----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:55 AMSubject: Re: Marty's binder Ian;Ingenious! If I didn't already have a binder that works very well, Iwould be out in the shop making one of those right now instead ofwasting time on the computer.John from fquinchat@locl.net Mon May 28 20:50:46 2001 f4T1okT10652 Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... I made a 7'8" for 5 wt with a bamboo ferrule and have been using it sincethe start of the season. So far so good. It has a small NS welt at theopen end of the female ferrule to improve hoop strength. Used it on the Grand this past week end and it pulled apart hard afterfishing in a down pour. Probably needs a better water proof mechanism.Will try the next one using the Nunley impregnation potion. I'll bring it to GrayRock. Dennis Bertram-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Claude,That was me, and they are holding up great. Matter of fact, I havestarted selling the rods instead of just using them for myself.The original, a 2 wt 6 footer, did great and is now of the hands of anavid flyfisher in New York, who loves it. I have since sold 4 that wereferruled this way on 4 wt rods, and not a single problem. You can see somerough pictures (scanner was dying when i did this page) athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmI think there are some others out there that are using bamboo ferrules from time to time. Would be interesting to hear what their experiences arewith them. Later,Bob Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a noteon who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL forthe photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept wasfascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from stuart.rod@gmx.de Tue May 29 03:08:45 2001 f4T88iT15202 Subject: Re: Marty's binder Hi Ian, ....then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill on at slowspeed...... instead of the two man (1 man, 1 woman) principle couldn't you just have acouple of electrical switches between the drill and the end of the pipe to killthe power as needed? This will allow us to carry on in secret instead ofhavingvarious members of the family ask interesting questions with embarassinganswers(what's with the pile of tomatoe sticks in the corner etc.). Stuart from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue May 29 06:44:56 2001 f4TBisT17160 f4TBijc90333; Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Tony Nah! I was gazing into space and took about half a dozen turns too many onthe wet and dry, followed by about a squillion too many on the steel wool. In fact, it is one of your ferrules, but I must accept mea culpa, mea culpa.It was perfect when I started to butcher it! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Hi Peter,this isn't one of my ferrules is it? I haven't cocked up have I? Tony At 11:25 PM 5/28/01 +1000, you wrote:When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thingyoucan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you love a thing let it go,If it returns it's yours,If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it. /**************************************************************************/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue May 29 07:02:55 2001 f4TC2sT17488 Subject: RE: Marty's binder Ian,This method, with an illustration, credited to be invented and developedbya Mr. Piet Veugelers can be seen in the small, 1997, self published book"Splitcanerods For Fly-Fishing" by H. S Schooten, Heerlen, The Netherlands.I just checked COCH-Y-BONDDU BOOKS at http://www.fishing.org/bonddu/andthey still had a copy or two for sale.Best regards,Gary H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Marty's binder Guys and Gals, I had Dutch rodmaker Marty Maas drop in to see me over the summer and ,asusual , we got around to discussing the difficulties of binding rods. Martyexplained to me the type of binder he was using. It was based on a design hehad been given by a old timer Dutch rodmaker. The simplicity of it appealedto me and Marty sent me some drawings on his return to Holland. I tried it last weekend on a rod I was making up and obtained a straightblank with very little twist. I thought it may be of interest to a few ofyou so have set out the details below.It is so simple it is almost a little difficult to explain. I will endeavourto attach Marty's diagram but as my son's are not here to help their poorold Dad on the computor blame me if it does not come through. ( Those whoattend the Southern Hemisphere gathering in March next year will be able tosee this binder in action. ) The principal of the binder is very simple, and the materials cost about$10. You also need a variable speed drill with a reverse direction knob. Youneed a section of hard plastic tube (Metal such as aluminium would also dobut it may be more expensive), about 1/2 inch in diameter, and a length of3" by 2" timber ( or similar) about 4'8" long.The plastic tube I used is the ducting used for house wiring but I saw asimilar hot water pipe tubing. You also need some hooks to hold the tubeonto the wood. I just used half a dozen "cup hooks" which were bolted intothe timber and the end of the cup hack sawed off. The concept is that youneed to hold the tube onto the timber for stability but have one side of thetube unobstructed. In hindsight it may be easiest just to epoxy it on to thetimber. The reason for having one side of the tube unobstructed is that you need tocut a slit in the tube the length of the tube. I used a thick circular diskon a Diemal tool to cut this groove but a small saw at a low angle would dothe job or a saw bench. The slit needs to be sanded back a little to give around , non thread cutting edge to the slit. The thickness of the slit needsto be about .020 to .035 , enough to take the binding thread. The tube ismounted so that there is about 4" of timber overhang at each end of thetube. Binding is then easy. The freshly glued blank, held with a few cord ties ormasking tape, is put into the tube with an inch or so protruding. Cover theprotuding end ( thicker end of the blank) with some clear film and attachthe chuck of the drill to it. Tie the binding thread to the blank in frontof the chuck and then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill onat slow speed after you lead the thread into the slit. I had the thread on afly tying bobbin and just used my hand for tension but I am sure there is abetter arrangement that can be made. While the rod is turning in the tubethe thread is lead along the length of the tube , in the slit. When the endis reached , and this does require a little co-ordination ( yelling) withthe drill operator to move the rod section back so that the overhang of therod length is bound and then poked out the end to be tied off. Then back to the chuck end and tie the thread again, reverse the drilldirection , and do a second binding run up the tube, this takes out most ofthe twist, then tie off again. Then run the drill at high speed in one direction for 10 seconds, reversethe direction , and run at high speed in the opposite direction for 10seconds. The rod section came out straight and with very little twist. This binder may not be ideal for very light tips, but I was doing a .070 tipand it was ok. It may be easier to have a seperate tube for each rod lengthbut they only take about a hour to build ( less if you have a saw bench tocut the slit and epoxy the tube onto the wooden support) so that is not ahassle. The concept is very simple and obvious and considerably simplier as a firstbinder then binders such as a Garrision. I have checked my effort at scanning and the pic does not show up too wellon the screen, but prints fine for those who may be interested. Ian from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 29 09:16:33 2001 f4TEGWT21349 Subject: RE: Why are fly rods tapered? Think parabolic curve. An untapered stick would form a circular curve(don't know if that's a correct dexcription, i mean a curve in which everysection has the same radius), a tapered stick forms a parabolic curve. Thelower, thicker end of the stick has less bend and also (I think) returns tostraight faster and with more power. This makes the rod accelerate as itstraightens. It also means that as the line straightens there is a "softerlanding" so to speak. The tip of the tapered rod is easier to bend so thatthe rod is cushioned as it straightens. A cast with an untapered stickwould have an abrupt stop as the backcast then the forecast straightened.That abrupt stop makes it dam near impossible to lay a straight cast. -----Original Message----- Subject: Why are fly rods tapered? I know, I know, it seems self evident. But I've been trying to put it into words. It doesn't seem as easy as whenIfirst started. Thoughts? ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 29 11:14:22 2001 f4TGELT25424 Subject: removing ferrule Some of you folks may remember the "crisis" I faced upon fracturing the tipsection of my first rod. I ultimately did a repair, finished the rod, andit fished beatifully this past weekend on the Firehole river. Threw my #16PMDs with utmost delicacy. At least it did until the tip broke (I built itwith only one tip). Guess my repair job sucked, and I was certainly morethan a bit clumsy. By the way, if you really want to test and improve yourcasting skills, break two feet off the top of your favorite 7' 4 wt. and tryto cast that sucker. My wife had dropped me at the river, my other rodswere in her car, I had 3.5 hours until she was gonna pick me up, and thePMDs were hatching, so of course I tried to fish the thing, after whittlingit down to the highest remaining guide. Let me tell you that taking apocket knife to your first rod in order to remove the broken material is asickening feeling. Rather than have another existential meltdown over the broken tip, I havesimply accepted the fact that this rod was meant to have a new tip. Inorder to build the new tip, though, I will have to reuse the male ferrule from the broken section. It was applied with polyurethane glue. I don'thave a lathe and my drill press stinks (so boring it out is not an option).Any suggestions on how to remove the old cane from the ferrule? from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue May 29 14:08:11 2001 f4TJ8AT02031 MAA22037 Subject: balance point/handle size While I was casting a vintage 9 foot rod which has what I consider to bea rather short grip, I found it more comfortable to cast with my handwell up on the cork, actually using some of the swelled butt portion ofthe rod itself to hang onto. That got me wondering about why we use 6 -7 inch grips which may not reach far enough up the rod to achieve a goodbalance in the hand. Is there some particular problem I'm just notseeing? On this rod, for instance, somewhere around an 8" - 8 1/2" gripwould have resulted in the balance point of the rod being within thecork grip area, rather than above it, making the rod seem nose-heavy. Seems like there's been a lot of past discussion about weight reduction,but I don't recall much about lengthening or moving the handle up, evenas much as a couple inches, to make the rod "feel" better. Anyone ever tried this approach? best to all - mac from jczimny@dol.net Tue May 29 15:25:20 2001 f4TKPJT04629 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Reels tended to be heavier in the past. Perhaps that is why the handles wereshorter.John Z Ralph MacKenzie wrote: While I was casting a vintage 9 foot rod which has what I consider to bea rather short grip, I found it more comfortable to cast with my handwell up on the cork, actually using some of the swelled butt portion ofthe rod itself to hang onto. That got me wondering about why we use 6 -7 inch grips which may not reach far enough up the rod to achieve a goodbalance in the hand. Is there some particular problem I'm just notseeing? On this rod, for instance, somewhere around an 8" - 8 1/2" gripwould have resulted in the balance point of the rod being within thecork grip area, rather than above it, making the rod seem nose-heavy. Seems like there's been a lot of past discussion about weight reduction,but I don't recall much about lengthening or moving the handle up, evenas much as a couple inches, to make the rod "feel" better. Anyone ever tried this approach? best to all - mac from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue May 29 15:43:43 2001 f4TKhgT05288 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size mac,People (and their hands) were smaller 80 years ago. I have a 10' salmon rod with a 4.5" grip, go figure. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue May 29 15:50:20 2001 f4TKoKT05666 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size I find when I'm casting that my hand "migrates" toward the reel. Thishappens with bamboo and those other kind of rods. Anglers Roost Fly Shop,Pointe Claire, Quebec, has recently patented a reel seat/cork grip thataccommodates this hand position and offers this as an option on several rodmodels. You will see the store's advertisement in a forth coming issue ofFly Rod and Reel. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue May 29 16:16:08 2001 f4TLG3T06550 Tue, 29 May 2001 14:15:50 -0700 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Ted,My hand does the same thing. Got a phone number or email or website forAnglers Roost?? I'd like to give it a look. Harry Ted wrote: I find when I'm casting that my hand "migrates" toward the reel. Thishappens with bamboo and those other kind of rods. Anglers Roost FlyShop,Pointe Claire, Quebec, has recently patented a reel seat/cork grip thataccommodates this hand position and offers this as an option on severalrodmodels. from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 29 16:19:48 2001 f4TLJkT06857 Subject: RE: balance point/handle size I always figured that the "migrating hand syndrome" must be a symptom ofsome rod- or casting-related problem. I've never figured out what problemthat might be, but I figured maybe it was an unconscious effort to lengthenthe rod, or maybe it was caused by an overweight reel. I don't know, but ithappens to me with some rods, but not with others. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Ted,My hand does the same thing. Got a phone number or email or website forAnglers Roost?? I'd like to give it a look. Harry Ted wrote: I find when I'm casting that my hand "migrates" toward the reel. Thishappens with bamboo and those other kind of rods. Anglers Roost FlyShop,Pointe Claire, Quebec, has recently patented a reel seat/cork grip thataccommodates this hand position and offers this as an option on severalrodmodels. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue May 29 16:30:57 2001 f4TLUuT07493 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Reed et al,I do not think our being smaller 80 years ago had much to do with the handle size. No offense Reed but this hypothesis seems a little ludicrous. If you look at handles from different manufacturers you will see many different sizes throughout the years. I have an older rod from about 1920or so that the handle is every bit of 6 1/2 "s long and I also have one from the same era where the handle is only 5"s. Both rods are 8' so I think it had something to do with who and where it was made, ie Eastern or Western. Look at older Paynes and how small their handles are. Not only length wise but diameter as well. Some people would complain about Payne's handle sbeing to small by today's standards, but having smaller hands I find the size very comfortable. One other thing as well, now this goes back to being a casting instructor (I bet you guys get tired of hearing this) I teach people to try and keep their hands back over the reel area as much as I can to help in the casting stroke. Try this and see if it does not help in your casting stroke, that is after you get used to it. this is on the smaller rods where it works the best.Bret from horsesho@ptd.net Tue May 29 16:42:57 2001 f4TLgvT08482 0000 Subject: Re: removing ferrule Bore a small hole in the cane that is in the ferrule. Insert a small screw. Heatthe ferrule and pull the screw. I think poly glue will soften with heat. Marty jmpio@nhbm.com wrote: Some of you folks may remember the "crisis" I faced upon fracturing thetipsection of my first rod. I ultimately did a repair, finished the rod, andit fished beatifully this past weekend on the Firehole river. Threw my #16PMDs with utmost delicacy. At least it did until the tip broke (I built itwith only one tip). Guess my repair job sucked, and I was certainly morethan a bit clumsy. By the way, if you really want to test and improve yourcasting skills, break two feet off the top of your favorite 7' 4 wt. and tryto cast that sucker. My wife had dropped me at the river, my other rodswere in her car, I had 3.5 hours until she was gonna pick me up, and thePMDs were hatching, so of course I tried to fish the thing, after whittlingit down to the highest remaining guide. Let me tell you that taking apocket knife to your first rod in order to remove the broken material is asickening feeling. Rather than have another existential meltdown over the broken tip, I havesimply accepted the fact that this rod was meant to have a new tip. Inorder to build the new tip, though, I will have to reuse the male ferrule from the broken section. It was applied with polyurethane glue. I don'thave a lathe and my drill press stinks (so boring it out is not an option).Any suggestions on how to remove the old cane from the ferrule? from sats@gte.net Tue May 29 17:03:59 2001 f4TM3xT09211 Subject: Why are fly rods tapered? I don't know if this made it the first time or not. I know, I know, it seems self evident. But I've been trying to pu