Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed May 23 11:07:31 2001 f4NG7VT27451 2001 09:07:26 PDT Subject: Re: Northeast visit bob, phd in family relations!? you're the man thatneeds to write a book on flyfishing! "101 ways to getout of the house while maintaining domestictranquility". how about some tips. timothy :-) --- Robert Milardo wrote:Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and wouldlike suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit withrodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule isflexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill andWhite in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to theCatskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run+??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to anysuggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists,especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some waterimportant in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour willtake several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Somethinglike visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries ofMilwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Wed May 23 11:57:18 2001 f4NGvGT29528 f4NGxdV08162;Wed, 23 May 2001 11:59:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Northeast visit Robert,I used to fish the the White around the Granville Gulf on RT 100 in Vermont.Ifyou are in that area check out Texas Falls on Rt 125 to Middleberry. If on Rt100 you can pick up 125 west out of Hancock. There is a lot of goodsmallmouthfishing on the Mad river in that area.Things might of changed, Have not been up there in 10 years. I am on theWhitein Arkansas now.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Robert Milardo wrote: Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill HallUniversity of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from vfish@vFish.net Wed May 23 12:35:46 2001 f4NHZjT00996 0500 Subject: RE: Digger Video This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks for the plug Bob... Your "Creating a Garrison Fly Rod" video is nowon the way to you for you to do a review for the RM LIST... 8^) I was also amazed by how much info was packed into this 40 min. video... butthen the Garrison video is similar in length. I've been asked many times...which one is better? I'll have to take the 5th... or give a politiciansanswer.. they are both excellent. er... maybe the first one is also apoliticians answer as well... Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Digger Video Just wanted to say that I got the "Digger: Portrait of Bamboo Fly RodMaker" from Darrell this week, and it is really a nicely done piece. Shortat 30+ minutes, but Digger's style is truly charming. Even my 2.5 year oldshouted out, "Oh! BAMBOO Daddy!"I just wondered about a few things that the video did not explain. 1. Whatdid he use to heat treat? He mentions cooking at 350* for an hour, but theydo not show the oven. 2. Also, they skip the straightening. How did he doit? 3. I read in Ron Barch's article on Digger, that he used nitrogen toeliminate moisture. How did he do that? Wow. I am now fascinated by Mr.Degere, I need more. Please?Thanks, Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, andmore218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com Thanks for the plug Bob... Your "Creating a Garrison = video is now on the way toyou = do a review for the RM LIST... 8^)I was also amazed by how much info was packed into = video... but then theGarrison = have = the 5th... or give a politicians = they are both excellent. er... maybe the first one is also a politicians answer as =well... MaulucciSent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:53 VideoJust wanted to say that I got the "Digger: = of Bamboo Fly Rod Maker" from Darrell this week, and it is really a = done piece. Short at 30+ minutes, but Digger's style is truly = my 2.5 year old shouted out, "Oh! BAMBOO Daddy!"I just wondered = few things that the video did not explain. 1. What did he use to heat = He mentions cooking at 350* for an hour, but they do not show the = Also, they skip the straightening. How did he do it? 3. I read in Ron = Please?Thanks, = = bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for= quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, = accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com= from andy@w-link.net Wed May 23 13:00:07 2001 f4NI06T01999 Subject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has got tobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is the bestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this is dueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight to getupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive to theneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviously manypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin is notexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly what theyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read through theyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does all itsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a foot indiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over three feetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is based onits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based on thearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the large sideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rare indeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvested inthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in water whichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starch iswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is the mostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planning thesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far as Iknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used for scaffolding inSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com from beadman@mac.com Wed May 23 13:24:08 2001 f4NIO7T02831 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) Andy - thanks for providing the info.Claude At 11:08 AM -0700 on 5/23/01, Andy Royer wrote about Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has gottobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will they... from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed May 23 15:17:40 2001 f4NKHeT07034 Subject: Re: Northeast visit f4NKHeT07035 Hi Bob, I'm over in Solon on the Kennebec. It's about halfway from Orono to Rangely. If this trip isn't good for you, we should plan on fishing the Kennebectogether sometime soon.I carry my own bamboo rods and gra#@ite rods also. I'm pretty new tomaking bamboo rods, so I'm always looking for someone to share ideas with. John K.Mountain Valley Flies -----Original Message----- Subject: Northeast visit Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed May 23 15:21:27 2001 f4NKLQT07293 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) f4NKLQT07294 Thanks so much for the info. John K.-----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has gottobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is the bestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this is dueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight to getupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive to theneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviouslymanypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin is notexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly what theyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read throughtheyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does all itsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a foot indiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over three feetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is based onits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based onthearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the large sideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rare indeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvested inthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in waterwhichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starch iswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is the mostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planning thesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far as Iknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used for scaffoldinginSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com from djhall@cisco.com Wed May 23 15:54:25 2001 f4NKsNT08897 Subject: Re: Northeast visit Bob,I would go with John K's idea with the Kennebec, hands down.Other ideas are to fish Middle Dam where Carrie Stevens caught the legendary 5.xx lb brook trout on a grey ghost, making this fly famous. She did this with a 9 foot FE Thomas (special i believe), already a famous maker of that time. Fish New Hampshire's Androscoggin (Andy) River (free NH fishing day on 6/2 BTW), camping at Mollidgewock State Park is right on the Andy river, and can day trip to Middle Dam in Maine as well. This time of year, you will find brookies and salmon everywhere in this area. I'd recommend spending some time here.The Battenkill river fishing isn't so good these day's from what i've heard. Stay away from the Rt313 stretch, favor areas in Sunderland, VT. Better yet, find out how the New York section of the Batt is. My favorite campground is "Camping on the Battenkill" in Arlington (i think). If the museum (and to a lesser extent, Orvis) wasn't here, i'd recommend a different course for your adventures (further north!).Once into New York, your out of my area of experience, unless you want to do the ausable up in Lake Placid. Good Luck, Dan At 11:43 AM 5/23/01 -0400, Robert Milardo wrote:Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks like June4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and a visitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end up inState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it is homewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill Hall University of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from iank@ts.co.nz Wed May 23 16:26:11 2001 f4NLQ9T10146 Subject: Re: bamboo information Hi all, The comments on Bamboo reminded me that the local book fair is on nextweekend. Last year I picked up half a dozen copies of the NationalGeographic from 1980 which has the article and photographs on bamboo, androdmakers bamboo in particular. They cost all of 20 cents each . If anyone is interested in a copy let me know and I will try to obtain somethis year. They cost about $6 (US) to post . Ian from thogan@rochester.rr.com Wed May 23 18:25:06 2001 f4NNP5T13407 f4NNNEd05909; Subject: Re: Northeast visit If you make it to New York, I would highly recommend the sacred waters ofthe West Branch of the Ausable. Historic fly water, and still produces nicefish. Head for Lake Placid and the Ausable is all around. Anyone at thelocal fly shop can suggest whats working.The Salmon River is some big East water as well. RegardsTaylor----- Original Message ----- Subject: Northeast visit Dear Friends, I'm planning a road trip and would like suggestions forplaces to fish, tenting areas, and to visit with rodmakers. Anysuggestions would be welcome. My schedule is flexible and looks likeJune4-5, Rangley area in Maine, June 6-8 Battenkill and White in VT and avisitto the FF museum in Manchester, then off to the Catskills, for a few days,(possibly the Adirondacks??) then into PA (Slate Run +??). I'll end upinState College around June 16ish. I'm open to any suggestions you mighthave and especially in fishing with other canists, especially if it ishomewater for you. The idea is to visit some water important in the historyof American FF and I'm thinking the full tour will take several years, sothis is just a start in that direction. (Something like visiting thegreat vineyards of the Bordeaux, or breweries of Milwaukee.) -- Bob. Robert M. Milardo, Ph.D.Professor of Family Relations17 Merrill HallUniversity of MaineOrono, ME 04469(207) 581-3128(207) 581-3120 FAX from rsgould@cmc.net Wed May 23 19:41:40 2001 f4O0fdT14618 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) Hi Andy and all,While I do commend those that do testing and research on other species ofbamboo, I feel that Andy's remarks are right on target especially if you'rebuilding a rod for a customer or for sale.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there has gottobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is the bestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this isdueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight togetupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive to theneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviouslymanypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin is notexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly whattheyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read throughtheyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does allitsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a footindiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over three feetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is basedonits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based onthearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the largesideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rareindeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvested inthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in waterwhichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starchiswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is themostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planning thesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far asIknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used for scaffoldinginSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com from oakmere@carol.net Wed May 23 20:23:58 2001 f4O1NvT15360 Subject: RE: Force and Mass Hi Folks: Not to be a stickler but or a pain in the a--, but Mass: Metric Units are Kilograms, gramsEnglish Units are Slugs (pound force - sec squared / foot) Force: Metric Units are Newtons, dynesEnglish Units are Pounds, ounces 1 Newton = 1 Kilogram * 1 meter per second squared1 pound force = 0.03106 slug * 32.2 ft per second squared (on earth) Note: Weight/Force = mass * acceleration of gravityAlso: 1 slug = 32.2 pounds mass = 14.6 Kilograms Hope this helps and does not confuse. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed May 23 20:37:40 2001 f4O1beT15673 0000 (209.71.50.31) Subject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this would begreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposed moisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 23 20:55:15 2001 f4O1tET16115 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation jmpio@nhbm.com I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rod should cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of the caster. I think this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less "average" taper. Others?? from jteft@frontiernet.net Wed May 23 20:55:27 2001 f4O1tRT16120 0400 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Fw: Doc Update Thought you all would like to know.JimT----- Original Message ----- Subject: Doc Update Hey Y'all, Just got off the phone with Cherie - so far so good. Doc made it throughsurgery fine, made it through the night, and his liver appears to befunctioning. He's still sedated and they're planning start waking him uptomorrow. In the mean time he's responding things around him. Will be aday-to-day thing for a while. Doc's sister is doing good too - in a lot of pain as expected but she'sawake and talking. Cherie says she's tired but is hanging in there. I was going to post Doc & Cherie's home address to the list for cards andsuch but haven't been able to put my hands on it. I pretty sure I sent itto Claude a little while back. Sooo, Claude, if you would, post it to theList this evening instead of just sending it to me - that'll save a stepandeliminate the chance of me mis-transposing any of the numbers. Keep the thoughts and prayers coming. Steve Steve DavenportLawGIBB - Atlanta404-817-0170sdavenpo@lawco.com from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 23 21:20:03 2001 f4O2K2T16870 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers David,Talk to your local industrial bearing supply house. Many of them carryloctite products. Also, at least here, many of our auto parts stores carryit. Industrial supply houses like WW Granger may have it, also. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this wouldbegreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposedmoisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed May 23 21:20:23 2001 f4O2KNT16952 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,What about line weight? An 8' 1wt is not going to cast 80' without some shirt-ripping heroics, methinks. I recall watching some very competent casters trying to get past 30' with a one-weight cane.What is your experience regarding the light line weights (3-1)?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rod should cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of the caster. I think this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less"average" taper. Others?? from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 23 21:26:18 2001 f4O2QHT17268 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 23 May 2001 20:53:53 -0500 Subject: Fw: Rod Evaluation Absolutely right, if not even more than 10 times it's length! Not thatyou'd actually cast an 8 foot rod 80 feet in a fishing situation, but if itwon't do it in still air, then it will be hard to make a good accurate castinto the wind 40 feet away. Later,Bob I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rodshould cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of thecaster. Ithink this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less"average"taper. Others?? from iank@ts.co.nz Wed May 23 22:32:31 2001 f4O3WPT18410 Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers David, If you go to www.loctite.com/distributors/ you should be able to find alocal distributor. Incidentally, although I use 620, AJ mentioned he used ( from my memorywhich is deteriorating with age ) 640 and I think 680. The glue does not leave any green residual line. The glue only works whenair is excluded and is dependant on close fitting between the surfaces. Ifit is exposed to the air it will not bind. Maybe someone smarter then me canexplain why. Incidentally I should acknowledge that the tip to use Loctite came fromTerry ( the wind from the North ) on one of his visits to the list. Ian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this wouldbegreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposedmoisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed May 23 22:46:16 2001 f4O3kFT19283 Wed, 23 May 2001 20:45:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo lore (relatively long) Ray,Of course I agree wholeheartedly. I would never build a rod for a customer from anything less than the best tonkin cane I can get. My experiments withlocal cane have been just that -- experiments. Done for my ownenlightenment. Harry Ray Gould wrote: Hi Andy and all,While I do commend those that do testing and research on other species ofbamboo, I feel that Andy's remarks are right on target especially if you'rebuilding a rod for a customer or for sale.Ray----- Original Message -----From: "Andy Royer" Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:08 AMSubject: Bamboo lore (relatively long) All, There are over a thousand species of bamboo out there and there hasgot tobe more than one that will work for building a split cane rod. Will theywork as well as Tonkin for what you are doing? Maybe. Tonkin is thebestthing going because of it's size, fiber density and availability. Amongbamboos studied as building materials, Tonkin is known to have the bestratio of (what rodbuilders call) power fiber to pith. I believe this isdueto its growing environment. Tonkin grows on rather steep hillsides inSouthern China. This means that the culms must grow very straight togetupto the sunlight, and very strong with withstand the winds of the rainyseason every year. All bamboo has worked on perfecting itself based on its environment forthousands of years. Tonkin has suited itself in a manner conducive totheneeds of rodbuilders in terms of straightness and strength. Obviouslymanypieces are not suitable for building rods because of impediments in thecane. Many human and natural infringements impede culms from being"perfect" for rodbuilders. It is the task of importers of cane for thebamboo flyrod market to weed out the less acceptable cane. Tonkin isnotexpensive. If anyone want's $3 12' x 2" culms they can get them.Rodbuilders pay a premium for their cane because that is exactly whattheyare getting. A few other notes here, responses to comments I've heard/read throughtheyears. The quality of any given culm has much more to do with its growingenvironment than anything else. A farmer taking care of there crops willproduce higher quality goods. Much has been said about the differingqualities of bamboo based on its age. Keep in mind that bamboo does allitsgrowing in less than three months. Bamboo that is five feet tall and 1/2inch wide can be the same age as bamboo that is 100 feet tall and a footindiameter (The fastest growing bamboo has been clocked at over threefeetina 24 hour period!). You cannot tell the age of bamboo by the size ofbamboo. With Tonkin it is easy to tell how old the growing cane is basedonits exterior appearance, this may not be the case with other bamboos. There are more than one species referred to as Tonkin. This is based onthearea of China the bamboo is coming from. I have heard reports of 3- 5"Tonkin. This is not Arundinaria amabilis. Two inches is on the largesideof average for rodbuilders Tonkin and the true 3" piece is very rareindeed. Harvest time is very important as mentioned. Bamboo is not harvestedinthespring when it is most active but in the fall. It is true that in many areas bamboo is soaked or transported in waterwhichreduces the amount of starch in the culms, this is helpful as the starchiswhat most insects or molds want to feed on. Bamboo that is used for flooring is not Tonkin. In China, Moso is themostcommonly used bamboo for this purpose and we used another species inVietnamwhen I worked with bamboo flooring. Tonkin is way too small for flooringwhich is made by splitting very large (4-6") diameter bamboo, planningthesplits and gluing them together in a large board or platform before finalmilling. Tonkin is usually not used for scaffolding, it is too valuable. As far asIknow, Bambusa textilus is the species most commonly used forscaffoldinginSouthern China. Sorry for taking up so much space. Feel free to write to me personally ifyou've additional bamboo inquiries. Thank you. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Brokerbamboo@w-link.net(206) 463-1273 ph/fx(206) 935-4414 msgand coming very soon... bamboobroker.com --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from richjez@enteract.com Wed May 23 23:01:25 2001 f4O41OT19745 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers --=====================_7529935==_.ALT An alternative to loctite, when you want it, is removable is clear nail polish or lacquer. It will hold as long as their is no longitudinal stress on a joint. In the service, we used to use it to hold bearings in place. When the bearing went out, a simple side tap on the bearing dislodged it. I am not sure how this applies to rod making but it seemed relevant.Rich Jezioro At 09:18 PM 5/23/01, Bob Nunley wrote:David,Talk to your local industrial bearing supply house. Many of them carryloctite products. Also, at least here, many of our auto parts stores carryit. Industrial supply houses like WW Granger may have it, also. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message -----From: David Rinker Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:35 PMSubject: loctite 620 suppliers Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this wouldbegreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposedmoisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):> --=====================_7529935==_.ALT An alternative to loctite, when you want it, is removable isclear nail polish or lacquer. It will hold as long as their is nolongitudinal stress on a joint. In the service, we used to use it to holdbearings in place. When the bearing went out, a simple side tap on thebearing dislodged it. I am not sure how this applies to rod making but itseemed relevant.Rich Jezioro At 09:18 PM 5/23/01, Bob Nunley wrote:David, stores carry also. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneinde=x.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: loctite 620 suppliers find a wouldbe exposedmoisture tube? Rich Jezioro @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_7529935==_.ALT-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 23 23:04:13 2001 f4O44CT19906 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot one weight is hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront to common sense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7 weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to the size of your forearm? from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu May 24 01:49:29 2001 f4O6nST22272 Wed, 23 May 2001 23:49:14 -0700 Thu, 24 May 2001 06:49:14 GMT Subject: Re: loctite 620 suppliers FILETIME=[A578DD40:01C0E41D] 609 should work but I haven't tried it. i also have not used 620. I have used 640 and 660 and both worked fine. 660 is a bit stronger and 640 ismore heat resistant and still strong enough. 640 is used by auto mechanics and is readily available at an auto parts store(a real one where mechanics who have to make a living buy their parts; ask your mechanic) and is marked as retaining compound. The number will be on the 6ml tube but it is small. 660 is available from a bearing supply house. I use only Loctite brand stuff. Ferrules are under too much stress and are too important to take even the smallest of unnecessary chances.A.J.Thramer From: "David Rinker" Subject: loctite 620 suppliersDate: Wed, 23 May 2001 21:35:18 -0400 Since reading about Loctite 620 for ferrules I've been trying to find asupplier on line or elsewhere to no avail. Any information on this would begreat. Also will the glue leave a green seam line on the exposed moisturecap of the male ferrule if I use a rabbit cap inserted into the tube?Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu May 24 08:02:09 2001 f4OD28T25834 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,Senseable, as always. I agree about the one-weights and lean that way two weight as well.An excellent table. Thank you.To Digress: Have you noticed that in the past few years you don't see many graphite rods in the shorter lengths? 9' 4wts can be found but not 7' 4wt. See, for example, www.huntersangling.com, where out of seven rod suppliers there is only one rod under 8' (7'9") and few under 8'6"... the vast majority are 9' and above. It seems the tables have turned again back to the fly rod as the "long rod". BTW,has anyone tried a 9' 4wt in cane?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot one weight is hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront to common sense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7 weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to the sizeof your forearm? -- from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 24 08:59:58 2001 f4ODxvT28672 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Of course, this doesn't account account for those of us that couldn't throw80' with an 8' rod (or any other rod less than a cannon) if our livesdepended on it. -----Original Message----- Subject: Fw: Rod Evaluation Absolutely right, if not even more than 10 times it's length! Not thatyou'd actually cast an 8 foot rod 80 feet in a fishing situation, but if itwon't do it in still air, then it will be hard to make a good accurate castinto the wind 40 feet away. Later,Bob I think Marty Keane suggests somewhere in his book that a good cane rodshould cast 10 times it's length without heroics on the part of thecaster. Ithink this is a pretty reasonable standard for rods of more or less"average"taper. Others?? from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 24 09:03:38 2001 f4OE3bT28920 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Reed, I still see plenty of short rods in the shops here in Idaho. Themarket is definitely tilted in favor of the 9' 5wt (a great all around rod around, and occasionally someone will actually have in stock a 6'6" 2 wt. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,Senseable, as always. I agree about the one-weights and lean thatway for two weight as well.An excellent table. Thank you.To Digress: Have you noticed that in the past few years you don'tsee many graphite rods in the shorter lengths? 9' 4wts can be found but not 7' 4wt. See, for example, www.huntersangling.com, where out of seven rod suppliers there is only one rod under 8' (7'9") and few under 8'6"... the vast majority are 9' and above. It seems the tables have turned again back to the fly rod as the "long rod". BTW,has anyone tried a 9' 4wt in cane?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot oneweight is hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront tocommon sense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7 weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to the sizeof your forearm? -- from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu May 24 09:13:37 2001 f4OEDaT29516 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: ferrule rules... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello, Are there any hard and fast rules on ferrule design?? ( i.e. wall =thickness, depth of slide, depth of bamboo..etc.) I appreciate any input. thanks Tom AusfeldRochester, NY Hello, Are there any hard and fast rules on ferrule = i.e. wall thickness, depth of slide, depth of bamboo..etc.) I appreciate any input. thanks Tom AusfeldRochester, NY from beadman@mac.com Thu May 24 09:25:34 2001 f4OEPXT00227 Subject: Speaking of ferrules... Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a note on who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL for the photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept was fascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 09:34:32 2001 f4OEYVT00729 Subject: Rod Evaluation/casting practice Bob,Actually there are times when you may have to make such a cast. Now granted they are more of the exception and not the rule. There are placeson the Muskegon River in Michigan where the larger trout are very wary because of the fishing pressure and I have had to cast to them a 72' flyline and 21' leader just so I would not put them down. These are the fish that have survived many seasons and are over the 20" range so they are very smart. These areas are usually in the slicker water of course but the situations do arise. Now mind you I would rather have a good 9' rod for these situations but I have used and will continue to use my 8' Leonard on this river. remember these times ARE the exception, most casts out there will be in the 35'-60' range. Casting is like any other sporting activity, if you are not practicing as much as you can you will only be a mediocre caster. Look at golfers, they come off the course during a tournament and go straight to the drivingrange or putting green. I had the oportunity to talk to Craig Stadler after a tournament and I asked him why if he was so good he did this? His reply, this is what keeps us so good constant practice. Being a casting instructor I can give you all some advice if you do not mind and do not take offense. Guys, practice at least 3 times a week if not more and give it at least a half hour if you can. Another thing, DO NOT practice with that wimpy 4-5 wght. Get out the 8 WGHT and practice. It will build up those casting muscles and you will get less fatigue when you do go out for the day with the 4-5wght for some trout. Plus if you do salmon and steelhead in the fall your muscles are already there for the challenge. One other thing you can put into your practice sessions is after you feel you have gotten down the basic rythm of your casting start doing some of the trick casts you will need on the stream. One day practice reach casts, not only right but left as well. Practice your double hauling or single hauling as well. The place to learn this stuff os in your yard not on the stream when that 20+ fish is in a difficult situation to get to.OK I am off my soap box here but I put this on the list because I hear a lot of you guys saying you suck at casting and to tell you the truth I used to suck too but persistant casting practice is how i got to be a casting instructor for the FFF. The day we did our testing there were a few guyswho were good casters who did not make it and I almost did not because mydouble hauling was off the mark a little. I went and practiced that and a half hour later they watched me again and said I had improved on it considerably and passed. That was many years ago and I still practice all the time, with an 8WGHT of course.WHEW. Windy,Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 09:38:16 2001 f4OEcFT01028 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation JM,There have always been the guys who will buy the 6' rod and the ones under the 8' mark. I have never cared much for short rods and never will. Now granted i do have a few rods in the 6'3" range (2) and the 7'6" range (2) but I could count on my hands how many times thise come out during theyear and have fingers left over. I have gone years without ever taking them out of their tubes. 8'-9' is my preference.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 09:52:44 2001 f4OEqhT01632 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation/casting practice rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu An aside : When I said practice with the 8 Wght I did not mean all of your practice should be with this rod just the bulk of it to build up muscle. Of course practice with the rods you do most of your fishing with as well. These are the rods you should practice your reach cast with (do use the 8 wght for dbl hlng tho) and all your other trickier casts. Maybe at one of the gatherings if someone wanted me to I could put on a casting clinic for all interested.Bret from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 11:38:54 2001 f4OGcrT05817 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Claude,That was me, and they are holding up great. Matter of fact, I havestarted selling the rods instead of just using them for myself.The original, a 2 wt 6 footer, did great and is now of the hands of anavid flyfisher in New York, who loves it. I have since sold 4 that wereferruled this way on 4 wt rods, and not a single problem. You can see somerough pictures (scanner was dying when i did this page) athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmI think there are some others out there that are using bamboo ferrules from time to time. Would be interesting to hear what their experiences arewith them. Later,Bob Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a noteon who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL forthe photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept wasfascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 11:53:52 2001 f4OGrpT06579 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation/casting practice Bret,I see your point and agree that practice casting is a MUST. I get mostof my practice on the rivers, as I usually fish at least 3 days a week, butthe "work" on the water cannot be replaced by lawn casting and practice,practice, practice.I have an old Hula Hoop in my back yard that is there for nothing morethan a target. I'll cast to it conventionally 20 or 30 times, then tiltright, tilt left, side arm, puddle cast, curve cast, etc, until I canconsistently hit the hula hoop or until my arm just completely gives out.This makes a lot of difference when you take your technique to the river,but even then, I wish they had a lawn with a hula hoop somewhere alongBeaver Creek, so I could get in an hour of "warm up" before I hit the water.As for rod length, I guess that all boils down to personal preference.Being just the opposite of you, of my personal rods, only one is over 7'long. and it's an 8' 6wt (AKA the Snake Rod to former SRG attendees). Theothers? a 5'6", a 6', and 4- 7'ers. I just don't have any need for thelonger rods with the kind of fishing I do. Of course my favorite kind offishing is "Commando Flyfishing" where you have to sneak up on crystal clearwater on your knees and lay a delicate cast on the water over the sagebrushyou're hiding behind, and for me, the short rods work much better for this.I don't much care for big water and rarely ever fish lakes, so the small,fast running streams are my favs and the short rods my preferred weapon.I'm sure if I had to cast 80 feet to a fish, on a constant basis, I'dhave a longer rod, but for the most part, my casts and the fish caught arein the 10 foot to 50 foot range, so I need a rod that will reach 50 feetwithout any effort, but that will cast a short leader and just a smallshowing of line out of the tip top, and the longer rods just don't do it forme.Besides, shorter rods assure that you get hung up in shorter trees and Ican't climb the way I used to, so must stick with my 6 footers for the mostpart! *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rod Evaluation/casting practice Bob,Actually there are times when you may have to make such a cast. Nowgranted they are more of the exception and not the rule. There are placesonthe Muskegon River in Michigan where the larger trout are very warybecauseof the fishing pressure and I have had to cast to them a 72' flyline and21'leader just so I would not put them down. These are the fish that havesurvived many seasons and are over the 20" range so they are very smart.These areas are usually in the slicker water of course but the situationsdoarise. Now mind you I would rather have a good 9' rod for thesesituationsbut I have used and will continue to use my 8' Leonard on this river.remember these times ARE the exception, most casts out there will be inthe35'-60' range.Casting is like any other sporting activity, if you are not practicingasmuch as you can you will only be a mediocre caster. Look at golfers, theycome off the course during a tournament and go straight to the drivingrangeor putting green. I had the oportunity to talk to Craig Stadler after atournament and I asked him why if he was so good he did this? His reply,this is what keeps us so good constant practice.Being a casting instructor I can give you all some advice if you donotmind and do not take offense. Guys, practice at least 3 times a week ifnotmore and give it at least a half hour if you can. Another thing, DO NOTpractice with that wimpy 4-5 wght. Get out the 8 WGHT and practice. Itwillbuild up those casting muscles and you will get less fatigue when you dogoout for the day with the 4-5wght for some trout. Plus if you do salmonandsteelhead in the fall your muscles are already there for the challenge.Oneother thing you can put into your practice sessions is after you feel youhave gotten down the basic rythm of your casting start doing some of thetrick casts you will need on the stream. One day practice reach casts,notonly right but left as well. Practice your double hauling or singlehaulingas well. The place to learn this stuff os in your yard not on the streamwhen that 20+ fish is in a difficult situation to get to.OK I am off my soap box here but I put this on the list because I hearalot of you guys saying you suck at casting and to tell you the truth Iusedto suck too but persistant casting practice is how i got to be a castinginstructor for the FFF. The day we did our testing there were a few guyswhowere good casters who did not make it and I almost did not because mydoublehauling was off the mark a little. I went and practiced that and a halfhourlater they watched me again and said I had improved on it considerably andpassed. That was many years ago and I still practice all the time, withan8WGHT of course.WHEW.Windy,Bret from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu May 24 12:44:48 2001 f4OHilT08465 pri.pacificare.com 2001 17:47:07 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:43:48 -0700 Subject: Rods made of Moso It's been a while since I last posted anything. I must admit to a bit ofinattention to the Rodmakers list, I've undergone a huge shift in careers, from 18 years in the science end of the petroleum industry to the healthcare industry. I have been getting a few messages directly to my home AOL account askingabout the rods I made from Moso. Moso does make an ok rod. It is denser andtherefore heavier for the same size. This makes it a bit slower for the sametaper. You can compensate for this, but it makes for a slightly heavier rodto get the same action than a rod made from Tonkin. Working Moso is moredifficult, the pith isn't like the pith on Tonkin. Moso pith is hard likewood and more difficult to plane. I did a break test on Moso, and it doessplinter with separate fibers, but with the hard pith clinging to the fibersgiving it a chunky appearance rather than the hairlike paintbrush fibersthat Tonkin has. I would rate Moso somewhere between Tonkin and Calcutta,but since my experience with Calcutta is only with older rods it could bethat a new Calcutta rod made to the same taper would be faster than theCalcutta rods I have casted. My conclusions are if Tonkin became unavailable Moso would be ok, but aslong as there is Tonkin around, that's what I'll use. Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu May 24 12:47:35 2001 f4OHlYT08736 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 24 May 2001 10:47:18 -0700 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation f4OHlYT08739 I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then length ofthe fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have a short rodwhen maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees that envelope a lotof small streams. I also use that technique (can't remember if it's calledbow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold the fly between your fingers,pull back on the rod and launch the fly under overhanging brush. Short rodswork pretty well for that if you are only wanting to go 12'-15' out. Landingsmall trout on a light, small bamboo gives me a lot of enjoyment. I'm notsure line weight loads the rod much at these distances. The momentum ofthe rod itself probably has more to do with it. I just know I don't like the feelof a stout rod that will cast wonderfully at 60', but has no finesse at shortranges. If I'm fishing bigger water, or in the wind, then of course the 60'caster is first choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and small trout. Thesoft, full working finesse that probably makes it impractical beyond 40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found so far, but there aremany I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quite powerful Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable to mealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feels likean early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ring grip, thatmicro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got at theNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze reels. O.K.it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck out of it. A rod like this maynot be practical for typical fishing situations, but on 10' wide headwaters,where the largest trout are under 10" I think it would be a blast. Chris from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 12:58:52 2001 f4OHwpT09225 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 24 May 2001 12:26:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation/casting practice ...only one is over 7'long. and it's an 8' 6wt (AKA the Snake Rod to former SRG attendees) Since I posted that, I've had several emails wanting to know what the"Snake Rod" is, so to the list it goes.The Snake Rod is my 8' 6wt, more commonly known as my 8' Supreme (itsthe one that is the background on my website). It used to be my favoriterod. The first day I took it fishing, some 10 or so years ago, I waswalking from one pool to the next on a trail along the banks of the MountainFork river. I stopped in the middle of the trail to light a cigarette (yes,I smoke like a train... I have very few bad habits left these days, and Irefuse to give up my Budweiser and Marlboros) and while standing there,gazing down the trail, felt two quick thumps on my boot. I looked down andsaw one of the biggest copperhead snakes I've ever seen in my life (funnyhow they all look like they're 6 feet long and 6 inches in girth whenthey're trying to bite you). I was on his trail and he intended to move meoff of it.Well, my first reaction was to strike back, so I did. I took my brandnew, never had a fish caught on it, cane rod, jumped back a few feet andbegan to viciously frail the snake with the rod. Of course, the thin caneat the tip of the rod probably did no more than raise a whelp or two on thesnake, but he moved off the trail and gave it back to me.When he left, I looked at the tip of my rod and it was broken betweenthe tip top and first guide. The tiptop was broken and bent 45 degrees offto the guide side of the rod. I was sick to say the least! Here I was 90miles south of home, only had one rod with me, it being a single tip rod,and that time of year, the caddis fall from the sky like raindrops in midafternoon, and that was approaching quickly.In an emergency, you'll try anything, so I walked back to the truck, gotout my portable fly tying kit (a case containing about 50 pounds of toolsand materials), a bobbin, some brown nylon 8/0 thread and proceeded toweavethe splinters of the break back together. Satisfied that the splinters wereback where they belonged, I overwrapped the break (no glue of any kind onhand, of course) with the 8/0 thread, just as I would do with white silk ifI were at home, and then coated it with several coats of head cement... oneafter the other until I had a good build on the repaired section. Ithought, "This will get me through the day, but I'll need to take this apartwhen I get home and glue it back together with URAC, do a proper overwraponit".Well, the caddis started falling and I started catching fish. Thetailgate repair worked great and even with some good sized fish on the rod,it never waivered.When I got home, it was late, I was tired, so I just put the rod back inthe rack in the shop and forgot about it for the time being. A few dayslater, I got it out and cast it in the front yard. Well, the tip washolding up great. I decided to make this old cannon work hard and see if Icould tear up my "tailgate repair", but even double hauling and sending mostof a full line down the street in front of the house, the tip held together.Well, I just left it alone. The Snake Rod, as it became known at ourlocal flyfishing club, up until recently, would cast a full fly line with abroken tip repaired with fly head cement and 8/0 nylon tying thread... andNO GLUE! Did it finally fail? Nope, I just decided it was time to re-dothe old rod, so a few weeks ago, I took it apart to refinish it and put anew set of ferrules on it, so I guess I'll just go ahead and build a new tipwhile I'm at it... That poor old broken tip did well for a good decade, soI guess I can retire it now and let it rest in peace.Well, as Paul Harvey would say, "Now you know the REST of the story..."on the Snake Rod... Later,Bob from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu May 24 13:13:34 2001 f4OIDXT09998 pri.pacificare.com 2001 18:15:52 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 24 May 2001 11:12:07 -0700 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Now that I've started again I can't stop!I do a lot of backpacking and fishing in small streams. This is thearrangement for rods I've settled with:I made a 4 piece "The Force" (8 ft.) and a 3 piece 5ft. parabolic. Both rodsfit in a 25 in. tube, and the tube fits in my backpack. The 5ft'er isperfect for dry fly fishing in small streams, but when I come upon a lake orwide meanders in an upper elevation meadow and need long casts, so far Ihave not seen anything (of the same length) that can out cast "The Force". Ihaven't felt the need for anything other than those two rods for a longtime.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then lengthof the fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have ashort rod when maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees thatenvelope a lot of small streams. I also use that technique (can'tremember if it's called bow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold thefly between your fingers, pull back on the rod and launch the fly underoverhanging brush. Short rods work pretty well for that if you are onlywanting to go 12'-15' out. Landing small trout on a light, small bamboogives me a lot of enjoyment. I'm not sure line weight loads the rod muchat these distances. The momentum of the rod itself probably has more todo with it. I just know I don't like the feel of a stout rod that willcast wonderfully at 60', but has no finesse at short ranges. If I'mfishing bigger water, or in the wind, then of course the 60' caster isfirst choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and smalltrout. The soft, full working finesse that probably makes it impracticalbeyond 40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found sofar, but there are many I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quitepowerful for it's short length. Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable tomealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feelslike an early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ringgrip, that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer Igot at the Northwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbesbronze reels. O.K. it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck outof it. A rod like this may not be practical for typical fishingsituations, but on 10' wide headwaters, where the largest trout are under10" I think it would be a blast. Chris from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu May 24 13:16:28 2001 f4OIGRT10245 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do the same kind of fishing, but in the same day might fish the mainstemand the headwaters. Thus the 7' 4 wt. 2 pc. was the first rod I built. Inthe works is a 7' 4wt. 3-piece specifically for backpacking. but Icertainly know you are after in a really short 2 or 3 wt. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then length ofthe fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have a shortrod when maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees that envelopealot of small streams. I also use that technique (can't remember if it'scalled bow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold the fly between yourfingers, pull back on the rod and launch the fly under overhanging brush.Short rods work pretty well for that if you are only wanting to go 12'-15'out. Landing small trout on a light, small bamboo gives me a lot ofenjoyment. I'm not sure line weight loads the rod much at these distances.The momentum of the rod itself probably has more to do with it. I just knowI don't like the feel of a stout rod that will cast wonderfully at 60', buthas no finesse at short ranges. If I'm fishing bigger water, or in thewind, then of course the 60' caster is first choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and small trout.The soft, full working finesse that probably makes it impractical beyond40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found so far, butthere are many I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quitepowerful for it's short length. Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable to mealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feels likean early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ring grip,that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got at theNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze reels.O.K. it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck out of it. A rodlike this may not be practical for typical fishing situations, but on 10'wide headwaters, where the largest trout are under 10" I think it would be ablast. Chris from rmoon@ida.net Thu May 24 13:44:44 2001 f4OIiiT11548 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Welcome back DarrylRalph from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu May 24 13:51:13 2001 f4OIpCT11854 Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation The leonard bamboo that I fish on the big water does have the capability of making the 10 ft cast as well and even on this big water sometimes I only need a 10-15 ft cast for a certain riser. I was not trying to make anyone switch to longer rods or shorter rods for that mater. I just stated my preference and if anyone thought I was trying to ram this down their throat I am sorry. Like I said some people will always buy the 6' rod no matter what the status quo is doing. i have em I use em when the situation warrants it..B from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 24 14:35:22 2001 f4OJZLT13581 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Welcome back Darryl. We've been wondering where you were. Thanks fortheupdate on the Moso. Hopefully relations between China and the US willremain such that we won't have to worry about the availability of Tonkin. Bob ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation Now that I've started again I can't stop!I do a lot of backpacking and fishing in small streams. This is thearrangement for rods I've settled with:I made a 4 piece "The Force" (8 ft.) and a 3 piece 5ft. parabolic. Bothrodsfit in a 25 in. tube, and the tube fits in my backpack. The 5ft'er isperfect for dry fly fishing in small streams, but when I come upon a lakeorwide meanders in an upper elevation meadow and need long casts, so far Ihave not seen anything (of the same length) that can out cast "The Force".Ihaven't felt the need for anything other than those two rods for a longtime.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation I do a lot of small stream fishing, and more important to me then lengthof the fly rod is how it feels casting at 15'-30'. It is nice to have ashort rod when maneuvering through the canopy of brush and trees thatenvelope a lot of small streams. I also use that technique (can'tremember if it's called bow and arrow or slingshot?) where you hold thefly between your fingers, pull back on the rod and launch the fly underoverhanging brush. Short rods work pretty well for that if you are onlywanting to go 12'-15' out. Landing small trout on a light, small bamboogives me a lot of enjoyment. I'm not sure line weight loads the rodmuchat these distances. The momentum of the rod itself probably has moretodo with it. I just know I don't like the feel of a stout rod that willcast wonderfully at 60', but has no finesse at short ranges. If I'mfishing bigger water, or in the wind, then of course the 60' caster isfirst choice. I'm still in search of the holy grail rod for small streams and smalltrout. The soft, full working finesse that probably makes it impracticalbeyond 40'. Some of the early Payne tapers are the best I've found sofar, but there are many I haven't tried yet. I fished with a Young Midge taper last year, but found it to be quitepowerful for it's short length. Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable tomealso. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feelslike an early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ringgrip, that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer Igot at the Northwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbesbronze reels. O.K. it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heckoutof it. A rod like this may not be practical for typical fishingsituations, but on 10' wide headwaters, where the largest trout areunder10" I think it would be a blast. Chris from horsesho@ptd.net Thu May 24 18:28:49 2001 f4ONSnT20156 0000 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation I like rods 5' to 8'. I can somewhat stomach an 8 1/2'er for rivers such astheDelaware but a 9'er is out of the question.. The main thing with short rods (61/2' and under) is the ability to cast the leader and a couple feet of line. A25' cast with such a rod in small streams is a long cast. Long rods 8' and 81/2'need to cast 25' to an entire line. 7' - 7 1/2' should cast 15' to 60' fairlyeasily. Hope I don't make any enemys but I hate 9' rods. If you like them"morepower to you" Marty Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: JM,There have always been the guys who will buy the 6' rod and the onesunder the 8' mark. I have never cared much for short rods and never will.Now granted i do have a few rods in the 6'3" range (2) and the 7'6" range(2)but I could count on my hands how many times thise come out during theyearand have fingers left over. I have gone years without ever taking them outof their tubes. 8'-9' is my preference.Bret from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu May 24 18:39:08 2001 f4ONd7T20506 [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Rod Evaluation But that's because I enjoy the casting primarily. When I nymph (which ismore than 50% of the time), I high-stick, and my two favorite rods are 10'and 11'9". It has nothing to do with casting pleasure in this case. It haseverything to do with getting a perfect dead-drift. Which is what nymphingis all about to me. Long rod, nice tight tuck cast, and hold all the lineoff the water that I can........ Again, a matter of personal preference -- TAM : ) -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation I like rods 5' to 8'. I can somewhat stomach an 8 1/2'er for rivers such astheDelaware but a 9'er is out of the question.. The main thing with short rods(61/2' and under) is the ability to cast the leader and a couple feet of line.A25' cast with such a rod in small streams is a long cast. Long rods 8' and 81/2'need to cast 25' to an entire line. 7' - 7 1/2' should cast 15' to 60'fairlyeasily. Hope I don't make any enemys but I hate 9' rods. If you like them"morepower to you" Marty from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 24 19:39:47 2001 f4P0dkT21297 Thu, 24 May 2001 21:38:59 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Claude,I think that was Bob Nunley, don't have the site handy but I'm sure ifBob will respond.Here is another link to a Danish builder that uses a bamboo ferrule,interesting site and a good read. The guys name is Bjarne Fries (??I think??) .Hereis the link:http://www.fries-rods.dk/index.html Let me know how you make out as I'm thinking of trying one myself, Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 24 19:46:52 2001 f4P0kpT21563 Thu, 24 May 2001 21:46:05 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation --------------D188E8963461A8E9CCA3EFB6 Chris,now we're talkin! Do you realize some women are making good moneytalking like that to guys on the phone ;^)Shawn "Packing into large canyons makes the short 3 pc. rods very desirable tome also. I've been trying to work out something in the 5'9" 3 pc. 3 wt.configuration. The tube would come in under 24". Something that feels likean early Payne taper. Soft and full working. A tiny 9 or 10 ring grip, thatmicro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got at theNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze reels. O.K.it's a toy, but I guarantee I would fish the heck out of it. A rod like this maynot be practical for typical fishing situations, but on 10' wide headwaters,where the largest trout are under 10" I think it would be a blast." Chris --------------D188E8963461A8E9CCA3EFB6 Chris, talkin!Do you realize some women are making good money talking like that to guys Shawn"Packing into large canyonsmakes that micro downlocking slide band seat with the cocabola spacer I got attheNorthwest Gathering and one of those little Austin Forbes bronze A rod like this may not be practical for typical fishing situations, buton 10' wide headwaters, where the largest trout are under 10" I think itwould be a blast."Chris --------------D188E8963461A8E9CCA3EFB6-- from flytyr@southshore.com Thu May 24 19:48:22 2001 f4P0mLT21704 f4P0ovV22372 Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Tony Spezio wrote: Claude,Myself and a good number of others have cast this rod, It is a sweet littlerod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Claude,That was me, and they are holding up great. Matter of fact, I havestarted selling the rods instead of just using them for myself.The original, a 2 wt 6 footer, did great and is now of the hands of anavid flyfisher in New York, who loves it. I have since sold 4 that wereferruled this way on 4 wt rods, and not a single problem. You can seesomerough pictures (scanner was dying when i did this page) athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmI think there are some others out there that are using bambooferrules from time to time. Would be interesting to hear what their experiencesarewith them. Later,Bob Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a noteon who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL forthe photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept wasfascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from cadams46@juno.com Thu May 24 21:44:53 2001 f4P2irT23453 22:43:50 EDT Subject: Northern Ohio I will be spending some time, about a month, in Northern Ohio near theToldedo Sandusky area. Is there anyone on the list who lives around thatarea and would be willing to do some fishing or show me around their shopI'd greatly appreicate it. ThanksSincerely, C.R. Adams from flyfish@defnet.com Thu May 24 22:39:54 2001 f4P3drT24188 Subject: Re:Northern ,Ohio This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I live in northwest Ohio, about 45mins away from Toledo. If you would =like to visit me ,you are more than welcome. We could also fish the Mad =River. And you could check out my rod making shop. My computer will be =down startingFriday morning the 25th, but will be back up down the system. Just let me know and I'll get back to you after this =weekend.Tony Miller I live in northwest Ohio, about= from Toledo. If you would like to visit me ,you are more than welcome. = also fish the Mad River. And you could check out my rod making shop. My = will be down startingFriday morning the = will be back up getting = in that room and have to tear down the system. Just let me know and I'll = back to you after this weekend.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from flyfish@defnet.com Thu May 24 22:46:20 2001 f4P3kJT24453 Subject: Oops! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Sorry guys hit the wrong button.Meant to hit reply. Hope that I didn't mess any body up with html.Tony Sorry guys hit the wrong =button.Meant to hit reply. Hope that I didn't = body up with html.Tony from seanmcs@ar.com.au Fri May 25 00:34:21 2001 f4P5XxT25973 Fri, 25 May 2001 15:33:47 +1000 Will Spry , Turplin Dixon ,Tony Young , Tony Spezio,Tony DiMauro , Tom Fox,"support@flyshop.com" ,"store@us.britannica.com" ,Steve Rosten ,Steve Coster ,Solange Leunckens ,Sebastian Gross , Ron Shanaver,Rodmakers info ,Rodmakers ,Ritchie Stevenson ,"rcurry@ttlc.net" , Ray Gould ,Photo-Graphic Systems , Philip Deer,Peter Pengilley ,Peter McKean ,Peter Bishop ,Paul X Coulombe ,Patrick Mullen ,Paolo Miurin ,"Mouche.com" , Molly McGrath,Mike Timbrell ,Michele McSharry ,Melissa Borgo , Mark Lee,Malcolm Halstead ,"Kevin M. Bell" ,Justine Humphry , John Keesing,Jodie Muston , Jim Mein,Janet Ellis , Jane Ree ,Jan Nystrom ,Ian Kearney ,"I.Stadler" , Hugh Knox ,Grahame Ellis , Fred,Fields Wicker-Miurin ,Exodus Fundraising ,Exodus Foundation ,"etrade_australia@etrade.com.au" ,Dr P J M McEwan ,Douglas Johnson , Don Wyllie,Dick Boyd , Dennis & Lyla Fox,Dawn van der Meulen ,David Prentice ,David Grevengoed ,David Crownshaw ,Daisy Barrett ,Claire McSharry , Chris Bogart,"CATPAWFOTO@aol.com" ,Bruno Schicht ,Bristol Owners Club , Bristol Forum ,Bob Pulsford ,Bill Crews , Bill Ballan ,aradoia , Ann Dinning,Andy Royer , Andrew Isaacson,Andrew Harris , Andrew Blow,Ahshfield Mission Parish Subject: e-mail address FILETIME=[460F4DC0:01C0E4DC] Hi: As from now my new e-mail address is: seanmcs@iprimus.com.au. Antoinette's address is unchanged for the present. Sean McSharry from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri May 25 06:21:42 2001 f4PBLfT29771 mail.cyberport.com Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation All, This past coupla years, in graphite (yea, yea - I know; no cussing on thissite), I've built quite a few 7'6" in 4/5 and am now in the process ofbuilding a 6'1" in 3. I'm seeing the requests for short come from folks thatfish medium to small streams. Also, most want a moderate action so thattheycan enjoy the smaller fish. Some of my hard-core 9' 5 wt fast fanaticfriends are starting to look at 8' and the 7'6'ers for the San Juan. Ifyou've got any casting ability, the shorter rods do just fine, and it's surenice to handle such light weight rods. I do like the fast actions forchunking lead and nymphing; the moderates and slow just flat run out ofsteam at about 30' or so. Anyway, my two cents ...... Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod Evaluation Tom,Senseable, as always. I agree about the one-weights and lean that way fortwo weight as well.An excellent table. Thank you.To Digress: Have you noticed that in the past few years you don't seemany graphite rods in the shorter lengths? 9' 4wts can be found but not7' 4wt. See, for example, www.huntersangling.com, where out of seven rodsuppliers there is only one rod under 8' (7'9") and few under 8'6"...the vast majority are 9' and above. It seems the tables have turnedagain back to the fly rod as the "long rod". BTW,has anyone tried a 9'4wt in cane?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/24/1 2:20:46 AM, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: Hi Reed - I did say something about " average" tapers. An 8 foot oneweightis hardly that. I suspect one weights in general to be an affront tocommonsense. How about 2-3 weights 6-6 1/2 feet, 4-5 weights 7-7 1/2 feet, 6-7weights 8- 8 1/2 feet, 8 weights and above 9 feet +, according to thesize ofyour forearm? -- from cattanac@wmis.net Fri May 25 09:45:21 2001 f4PEjET04798 Subject: Re: Hexrod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Jim -Somehow I lost the index at my website - and with the new job I have =I haven't been able to rebuild ti - in you click on the URL listed below =it should take you to the page where you can download the new Windows = http://www.wcattanachrodco.com/hexrod/hexset.htm Wayne Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 10:21 AMSubject: Hexrod Dear Wayne, Just purchased new version of your 'bible' on rod making. I =came to the web page hoping to download 'Hexrod' as told, to look it =over before attending Ted Knott's meeting at Bellwood tomorrow I bought your first edition in 1993 but at that time I had =an apple computer so I could not use the disc included. I now have an =IBM clone with windows 98. Can you help? =thanks, Jim Boone (jeboone@home.com) Jim - = website - and with the new job I have I haven't been able to rebuild ti = click on the URL listed below it should take you to the page where you = http://www.wcat=tanachrodco.com/hexrod/hexset.htm Wayne ----- Original Message ----- James= Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 =10:21 AMSubject: Hexrod Wayne, purchased new version of your 'bible' on rod making. I came to the web = hoping to download 'Hexrod' as told, to look it over before attending = Knott's meeting at Bellwood tomorrow computer so I could not use the disc included. I now have an IBM clone = windows 98. = from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri May 25 11:23:03 2001 f4PGN2T08386; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:22:55 -0700 Rick Crenshaw , Charlie Curro,Dennis Higham ,Mike Biondo , Ken Cole Subject: Southern Rodmakers Gathering 2001 Friends, Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but registration forthe SRG 2001 scheduled for October 25-27 in Mtn. Home,Arkansas http://www.curro.net/srg2001/infoPage.html isfull. We have over 50 folks who have paid theirRegistration fees, and are waiting to hear from about twodozen participants from previous years. A very fewadditional spots will probably open up if some of those whoparticipated in previous years choose not to attend thisyear. Therefore, we're now taking names for a waiting list. If you would like to be placed on the waiting list, letme know at . I'll reply to your notetelling you where you stand on the waiting list. Thanks,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from EESweet@aol.com Fri May 25 15:54:58 2001 f4PKsvT17103 May 2001 16:54:43 -0400 Subject: Poor man's quad Hi All, Lately I've been considering making a PMQ. I have some leftovers fromprevious rods, not enough for hex Frankenstein rod, but certainly enough fora PMQ. Just one problem, without the use of a planing form, how do I ensurethe taper is accurate? Not being a MHM owner, it's just me and my 9 1/2... TIA Eric from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri May 25 17:58:41 2001 f4PMwfT19836 2001 15:58:37 PDT Subject: Re: Poor man's quad Eric,I'm working on that very problem myself right now.What I'm doing is getting the pieces to a consistentthickness first that is .006 larger than the largestdimension, heat-treating, then removing the enamel.This should bring it close to the final on one end.Then using a step-like technique take 5" stations downto within .002 of the final. Then use scraping to evenit all out and get the final taper. Not sure if thiswill work. I'll be interested to see what TomSmithwick has to say since he's the acknowledgedexpert on 2-strips. Bill Walters--- EESweet@aol.com wrote:Hi All, Lately I've been considering making a PMQ. I havesome leftovers from previous rods, not enough forhex Frankenstein rod, but certainly enough for aPMQ. Just one problem, without the use of a planingform, how do I ensure the taper is accurate? Notbeing a MHM owner, it's just me and my 9 1/2... TIA Eric __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri May 25 18:03:29 2001 f4PN3ST20055 2001 16:03:28 PDT Interested in straightening tricks anyone has. Findingit slow going with a PMQ. Soaking has helped and I'mgoing to try a test with clamping and my oven to seeif I can get the cane to straighten out under thepressure of clamps. Anyone have a lot of success withstraightening thicker strips? Any tips would begreatly appreciated. Thanks. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri May 25 19:14:12 2001 f4Q0EBT20955 Subject: Dip tube diameter I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2". I'll be varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will this pose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri May 25 21:01:06 2001 f4Q215T22131 Subject: Re: Dip tube diameter Rich,I have been using a 1 1/2" dia. tube for many years and have had notroublegetting the rods into it. That is plenty big.Ed Hartzell RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2". I'llbe varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will thispose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from horsesho@ptd.net Fri May 25 22:10:08 2001 f4Q3A8T22977 0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Dip tube diameter Hi Rich, I use 1 1/4" ID pipe. I am very happy with the results and it takesalot less Varnish/ Poly to fill it. I of course make only Trout rods. Marty RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2". I'llbe varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will thispose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat May 26 10:41:07 2001 f4QFf7T00571 +0000 Subject: Test Sorry for the bandwidth folks. Just wanted to see if this thing's on... Dennis from robert.kope@prodigy.net Sat May 26 12:14:34 2001 f4QHEXT01622 f4QHEWp128768;Sat, 26 May 2001 13:14:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Dip tube diameter I use a 1" PVC tube with no direct problems because of the size. The nicething about it is that it only takes 1 qt. of varnish to fill it to a depthif 4 ft. The only drawback I found is that butt sections displace enoughvarnish to raise the level an inch or more, so the level of varnish has tobe well below the top of the tube. I solved that problem by adding a 1" to2" reducing bushing with a short piece of 2" diameter PVC on the top. Thatincreased the cost of my dip tube by about 500%, but since it originallycost less than $1, I think it was well worth the expense ;^) -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dip tube diameter I'm thinking of reducing the diameter of my dip tube from 2" to 1 1/2".I'llbe varnishing mainly trout rods with size 10 strippers or less. Will thispose a problem? What diameter is everyone using? Thanks; --Rich from JANSNOWRICHARDS@aol.com Sat May 26 13:05:49 2001 f4QI5mT02442 Subject: Loctite products --part1_102.3ca33ef.28414a71_boundary Any of the Loctite green retaining adhesives will work well. Another retaining product is Loctite 291 which is a very thin viscosity, and will wick into very tight fits in parts that are already assembled. The loctite anaerobic adhesives are much stronger and tougher (after they have cured) than the nail polish type of adhesives someone mentioned. Also they cure diferently. The Loctite anaerobic adhesives start to cure after they are removed from a source of oxygen. The nail polish type of adhesives drywhen they are exposed to air. In a tight fit they would have trouble drying. They dry by solvent evaporation which may leave some voids (holes) in the joint. The Loctite products are essentially 100% solid, and after they are cured, leave no voids. This is from a former Loctite sales engineer (and rodmaker). Janice Richards --part1_102.3ca33ef.28414a71_boundary Any of the Loctite green retaining product is Loctite 291 which is a very thin viscosity, and will loctite anaerobic adhesives are much stronger and tougher (after they havecured) they cure they are adhesives dry when They dry by solvent evaporation which may leave some voids (holes) inthe they are engineer (and --part1_102.3ca33ef.28414a71_boundary-- from EESweet@aol.com Sat May 26 13:31:12 2001 f4QIVBT02890 Subject: PMQ --part1_c9.106888e3.2841506a_boundary Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about the PMQ. With all that help I think I just might be able to put together something that's fishable, and maybe even not too ugly to look at... Thanks again, Eric --part1_c9.106888e3.2841506a_boundary Thanks to everyone who help I think I just might be able to put together something that'sfishable, and maybe even not too ugly to look at... Thanks again, Eric --part1_c9.106888e3.2841506a_boundary-- from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sat May 26 21:43:07 2001 f4R2h6T07874 2001 19:43:06 PDT Subject: Test Test, please delete. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great priceshttp://auctions.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun May 27 06:23:16 2001 f4RBNFT13187 +0100 Subject: Two Strip Quads Ok Chaps here's one for you in the know ;Where can one ( or who has )find details on how to build Two StripQuads?In anticipation........Paul from channer@frontier.net Sun May 27 07:12:35 2001 f4RCCYT13795 Subject: Re: Two Strip Quads Paul;I belive it's in The Best of the Planing form. Basicaly, as I remember,you free-hand plane the taper on the pith sides of 2 strips, glue themtogether , then do the same to the 2 sides, a few passes too many andit's a line weight lighter, a few shy and it's heavier.John "paul.blakley" wrote: Ok Chaps here's one for you in the know ;Where can one ( or who has )find details on how to build Two StripQuads?In anticipation........Paul from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun May 27 07:35:57 2001 f4RCZuT14134 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: To Ed Miller - others please delete Ed,I tried to reply to your email, but AOL bounces my messages as . Do you have another email address?-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from rvenneri@ulster.net Sun May 27 15:16:54 2001 f4RKGrT19336 0400 Subject: Nickle silver Hi guys. Im am buying a large lot of nickle silver tubing. I would bewilling to sell some to any of you looking to make your own reel seats.The tubing is .750 OD and .584 ID. This is a thick wall tubing made just betteri price. I will need to do this asap as the manufacturer is makingit now and if I can buy more while he is I can get it cheaper. Any oneinterested contact me off list. I will sell as little as you want.Iamsorry for the bandwidth and if I am out of line with this post let meknow. http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882 from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun May 27 17:23:20 2001 f4RMNJT20851 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Nickle silver Not at all out of the line!!! What have made everybody so afraid????I should have bought some of You, but I have spent all my $ on silk lines:-O regardsdanny from seanmcs@ar.com.au Sun May 27 19:02:01 2001 f4S01uT21980 Mon, 28 May 2001 10:01:51 +1000 Subject: email address FILETIME=[65C44F60:01C0E709] Hi: This may be overkill, but I am trying to let you know that I changed seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Sean McSharry from sats@gte.net Sun May 27 21:01:47 2001 f4S21lT23152 ; id UAA115034358 Subject: Why are fly rods tapered? I know, I know, it seems self evident. But I've been trying to put it into words. It doesn't seem as easy as when Ifirst started. Thoughts? ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from iank@ts.co.nz Mon May 28 00:47:04 2001 f4S5knT25838 2001 17:38:05 +1200 Subject: Marty's binder This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Guys and Gals, I had Dutch rodmaker Marty Maas drop in to see me over the summer and ,asusual , we got around to discussing the difficulties of binding rods. Martyexplained to me the type of binder he was using. It was based on a design hehad been given by a old timer Dutch rodmaker. The simplicity of it appealedto me and Marty sent me some drawings on his return to Holland. I tried it last weekend on a rod I was making up and obtained a straightblank with very little twist. I thought it may be of interest to a few ofyou so have set out the details below.It is so simple it is almost a little difficult to explain. I will endeavourto attach Marty's diagram but as my son's are not here to help their poorold Dad on the computor blame me if it does not come through. ( Those whoattend the Southern Hemisphere gathering in March next year will be able tosee this binder in action. ) The principal of the binder is very simple, and the materials cost about$10. You also need a variable speed drill with a reverse direction knob. Youneed a section of hard plastic tube (Metal such as aluminium would also dobut it may be more expensive), about 1/2 inch in diameter, and a length of3" by 2" timber ( or similar) about 4'8" long.The plastic tube I used is the ducting used for house wiring but I saw asimilar hot water pipe tubing. You also need some hooks to hold the tubeonto the wood. I just used half a dozen "cup hooks" which were bolted intothe timber and the end of the cup hack sawed off. The concept is that youneed to hold the tube onto the timber for stability but have one side of thetube unobstructed. In hindsight it may be easiest just to epoxy it on to thetimber. The reason for having one side of the tube unobstructed is that you need tocut a slit in the tube the length of the tube. I used a thick circular diskon a Diemal tool to cut this groove but a small saw at a low angle would dothe job or a saw bench. The slit needs to be sanded back a little to give around , non thread cutting edge to the slit. The thickness of the slit needsto be about .020 to .035 , enough to take the binding thread. The tube ismounted so that there is about 4" of timber overhang at each end of thetube. Binding is then easy. The freshly glued blank, held with a few cord ties ormasking tape, is put into the tube with an inch or so protruding. Cover theprotuding end ( thicker end of the blank) with some clear film and attachthe chuck of the drill to it. Tie the binding thread to the blank in frontof the chuck and then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill onat slow speed after you lead the thread into the slit. I had the thread on afly tying bobbin and just used my hand for tension but I am sure there is abetter arrangement that can be made. While the rod is turning in the tubethe thread is lead along the length of the tube , in the slit. When the endis reached , and this does require a little co-ordination ( yelling) withthe drill operator to move the rod section back so that the overhang of therod length is bound and then poked out the end to be tied off. Then back to the chuck end and tie the thread again, reverse the drilldirection , and do a second binding run up the tube, this takes out most ofthe twist, then tie off again. Then run the drill at high speed in one direction for 10 seconds, reversethe direction , and run at high speed in the opposite direction for 10seconds. The rod section came out straight and with very little twist. This binder may not be ideal for very light tips, but I was doing a .070 tipand it was ok. It may be easier to have a seperate tube for each rod lengthbut they only take about a hour to build ( less if you have a saw bench tocut the slit and epoxy the tube onto the wooden support) so that is not ahassle. The concept is very simple and obvious and considerably simplier as a firstbinder then binders such as a Garrision. I have checked my effort at scanning and the pic does not show up too wellon the screen, but prints fine for those who may be interested. Ian from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon May 28 07:27:14 2001 f4SCRCT29480 f4SCQxc61260 Subject: sloppy ferrules When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thing youcan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; but somehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from horsesho@ptd.net Mon May 28 08:52:01 2001 f4SDq0T01183 sender ) Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules I have squeezed the female ferrule in a standard hand drill chuck minus thedrill (this must be done VERY slightly or the male won't enter). This is only atemperary solution as the female over time will open back up with use. Marty Peter McKean wrote: When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thing youcan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from channer@frontier.net Mon May 28 08:52:05 2001 f4SDq4T01188 Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Peter;There is another option, if you know how to do it yourself, or haveaccess to a plating shop, and that is to have the male plated with thesame metal it is made of , then re-fit it. I have used both a lathechuck and a drill chuck to tighten females, both of them have a space atthe back of the chuck that the welt on the female will fit into. I turnthe ferrule and squeeze it in 3 places(for a total of 9 pressure points)to keep it as close to round as possible. Cheap old production ferrulestighten with very little pressure, new Super Z types require a lot morework and care to tighten.John Peter McKean wrote: When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thing youcan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from channer@frontier.net Mon May 28 08:55:14 2001 f4SDtDT01603 Subject: Re: Marty's binder Ian;Ingenious! If I didn't already have a binder that works very well, Iwould be out in the shop making one of those right now instead ofwasting time on the computer.John Ian Kearney wrote: Guys and Gals, I had Dutch rodmaker Marty Maas drop in to see me over the summer and ,asusual , we got around to discussing the difficulties of binding rods. Martyexplained to me the type of binder he was using. It was based on a designhehad been given by a old timer Dutch rodmaker. The simplicity of it appealedto me and Marty sent me some drawings on his return to Holland. I tried it last weekend on a rod I was making up and obtained a straightblank with very little twist. I thought it may be of interest to a few ofyou so have set out the details below.It is so simple it is almost a little difficult to explain. I will endeavourto attach Marty's diagram but as my son's are not here to help their poorold Dad on the computor blame me if it does not come through. ( Thosewhoattend the Southern Hemisphere gathering in March next year will be abletosee this binder in action. ) The principal of the binder is very simple, and the materials cost about$10. You also need a variable speed drill with a reverse direction knob. Youneed a section of hard plastic tube (Metal such as aluminium would also dobut it may be more expensive), about 1/2 inch in diameter, and a length of3" by 2" timber ( or similar) about 4'8" long.The plastic tube I used is the ducting used for house wiring but I saw asimilar hot water pipe tubing. You also need some hooks to hold the tubeonto the wood. I just used half a dozen "cup hooks" which were bolted intothe timber and the end of the cup hack sawed off. The concept is that youneed to hold the tube onto the timber for stability but have one side of thetube unobstructed. In hindsight it may be easiest just to epoxy it on to thetimber. The reason for having one side of the tube unobstructed is that you needtocut a slit in the tube the length of the tube. I used a thick circular diskon a Diemal tool to cut this groove but a small saw at a low angle would dothe job or a saw bench. The slit needs to be sanded back a little to give around , non thread cutting edge to the slit. The thickness of the slit needsto be about .020 to .035 , enough to take the binding thread. The tube ismounted so that there is about 4" of timber overhang at each end of thetube. Binding is then easy. The freshly glued blank, held with a few cord ties ormasking tape, is put into the tube with an inch or so protruding. Cover theprotuding end ( thicker end of the blank) with some clear film and attachthe chuck of the drill to it. Tie the binding thread to the blank in frontof the chuck and then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill onat slow speed after you lead the thread into the slit. I had the thread on afly tying bobbin and just used my hand for tension but I am sure there is abetter arrangement that can be made. While the rod is turning in the tubethe thread is lead along the length of the tube , in the slit. When the endis reached , and this does require a little co-ordination ( yelling) withthe drill operator to move the rod section back so that the overhang of therod length is bound and then poked out the end to be tied off. Then back to the chuck end and tie the thread again, reverse the drilldirection , and do a second binding run up the tube, this takes out most ofthe twist, then tie off again. Then run the drill at high speed in one direction for 10 seconds, reversethe direction , and run at high speed in the opposite direction for 10seconds. The rod section came out straight and with very little twist. This binder may not be ideal for very light tips, but I was doing a .070 tipand it was ok. It may be easier to have a seperate tube for each rod lengthbut they only take about a hour to build ( less if you have a saw bench tocut the slit and epoxy the tube onto the wooden support) so that is not ahassle. The concept is very simple and obvious and considerably simplier as a firstbinder then binders such as a Garrision. I have checked my effort at scanning and the pic does not show up too wellon the screen, but prints fine for those who may be interested. Ian ------------------------------------------------------------------------Name: marty2.gifmarty2.gif Type: GIF Image (image/gif)Encoding: base64 from robert.kope@prodigy.net Mon May 28 09:45:51 2001 f4SEjpT02728 Mon, 28 May 2001 10:45:41 -0400 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Peter, The best luck I've had is with a method I got from the list. Using a pieceof lead as a hammer and another as an anvil, simply tap the outside of thefemale ferrule as you rotate it. Check the fit frequently as you do this.I've used this method a couple of times with success, and seen no marring orapparent distortion of the ferrule. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: sloppy ferrules When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thingyoucan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter from Canerods@aol.com Mon May 28 11:37:37 2001 f4SGbaT04067 Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_60.ee8dffc.2843d8c0_boundary Peter, You can also have success by squeezing the MALE ferrule's slide in a 3 jaw chuck on a portable drill. Use the chuck key to tighten up on the slide and test fit often. I realign the ferrule into the chuck so that the jaws are working on the same spots each time. Believe it or not, but you can dimple out the slide a few 0.0001" without out leaving a mark on the slide. OBTW, NS contains no Ag so Ni-Ag would be incorrect shorthand for this material. Don Burns --part1_60.ee8dffc.2843d8c0_boundary Peter, You can also have success by squeezing the MALE ferrule's slide in a 3jaw chuck on a portable drill. Use the chuck key to tighten up on the slideand test fit often. I realign the ferrule into the chuck so that the jaws are working on the same spots each time. Believe it or not, but you can dimple out the slide a few 0.0001" withoutout leaving a mark on the slide. OBTW, NS contains no Ag so Ni-Ag would be incorrect shorthand for this material. Don Burns --part1_60.ee8dffc.2843d8c0_boundary-- from iank@ts.co.nz Mon May 28 14:58:26 2001 f4SJwPT06568 Tue, 29 May 2001 07:54:15 +1200 Subject: Re: Marty's binder John, I have no doubt that someone , in the best rodmakers tradition, will workout a way of needing a geared worm drive to move the thread holder alongthepipe, a variable speed foot pedal to control the speed , a coupling to drivethe rotation from a large and essential lathe, and some anti-twist rotationgauge. :)) Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Marty's binder Ian;Ingenious! If I didn't already have a binder that works very well, Iwould be out in the shop making one of those right now instead ofwasting time on the computer.John from anglport@con2.com Mon May 28 15:12:54 2001 f4SKCrT06981 Subject: Re: Marty's binder ...and some anti-twist rotation... Maybe a gyroscopic add-on will do that?? It works for helicopters.Perhapsif we could hollow the shaft and build in INTO the rod.... Art At 07:48 AM 05/29/2001 +1200, Ian Kearney wrote:John, I have no doubt that someone , in the best rodmakers tradition, will workout a way of needing a geared worm drive to move the thread holder alongthepipe, a variable speed foot pedal to control the speed , a coupling to drivethe rotation from a large and essential lathe, >gauge. :)) Ian----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:55 AMSubject: Re: Marty's binder Ian;Ingenious! If I didn't already have a binder that works very well, Iwould be out in the shop making one of those right now instead ofwasting time on the computer.John from fquinchat@locl.net Mon May 28 20:50:46 2001 f4T1okT10652 Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... I made a 7'8" for 5 wt with a bamboo ferrule and have been using it sincethe start of the season. So far so good. It has a small NS welt at theopen end of the female ferrule to improve hoop strength. Used it on the Grand this past week end and it pulled apart hard afterfishing in a down pour. Probably needs a better water proof mechanism.Will try the next one using the Nunley impregnation potion. I'll bring it to GrayRock. Dennis Bertram-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Speaking of ferrules... Claude,That was me, and they are holding up great. Matter of fact, I havestarted selling the rods instead of just using them for myself.The original, a 2 wt 6 footer, did great and is now of the hands of anavid flyfisher in New York, who loves it. I have since sold 4 that wereferruled this way on 4 wt rods, and not a single problem. You can see somerough pictures (scanner was dying when i did this page) athttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/ferrule.htmI think there are some others out there that are using bamboo ferrules from time to time. Would be interesting to hear what their experiences arewith them. Later,Bob Would whoever made the ferrules out of cane a while back post a noteon who they're holding up to fishing pressure? Also, the URL forthe photos of the bamboo ferrules? I thought the concept wasfascinating, and was just wondering if any problems have developed... Thanks,Claude from stuart.rod@gmx.de Tue May 29 03:08:45 2001 f4T88iT15202 Subject: Re: Marty's binder Hi Ian, ....then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill on at slowspeed...... instead of the two man (1 man, 1 woman) principle couldn't you just have acouple of electrical switches between the drill and the end of the pipe to killthe power as needed? This will allow us to carry on in secret instead ofhavingvarious members of the family ask interesting questions with embarassinganswers(what's with the pile of tomatoe sticks in the corner etc.). Stuart from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue May 29 06:44:56 2001 f4TBisT17160 f4TBijc90333; Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Tony Nah! I was gazing into space and took about half a dozen turns too many onthe wet and dry, followed by about a squillion too many on the steel wool. In fact, it is one of your ferrules, but I must accept mea culpa, mea culpa.It was perfect when I started to butcher it! Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sloppy ferrules Hi Peter,this isn't one of my ferrules is it? I haven't cocked up have I? Tony At 11:25 PM 5/28/01 +1000, you wrote:When you get a Ni-Ag ferrule which is a sloppy fit [male into female, Imean, not sloppy metal to wood fit], it seems to me that the only thingyoucan do, short of replacing the whole kit and kaboodle, is to squeeze thefemale in some sort of pressing device. I have tried to do this in [a] a heavy lathe chuck [b] a thread-operatedcollett, and [c] a purpose-built ferrule press. I found the chuck to be pretty unsatisfactory from a point of view ofsymmetry, and the limitation of the collett was that if you used one bigenough to clear the flange on the end of the ferrule, it was too big tosqueeze the barrel down. I seem to get the best results with the two-bar ferrule press; butsomehowit seems to be a Neanderthal sort of tool. Any bright ideas for improvement? Peter /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you love a thing let it go,If it returns it's yours,If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it. /**************************************************************************/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue May 29 07:02:55 2001 f4TC2sT17488 Subject: RE: Marty's binder Ian,This method, with an illustration, credited to be invented and developedbya Mr. Piet Veugelers can be seen in the small, 1997, self published book"Splitcanerods For Fly-Fishing" by H. S Schooten, Heerlen, The Netherlands.I just checked COCH-Y-BONDDU BOOKS at http://www.fishing.org/bonddu/andthey still had a copy or two for sale.Best regards,Gary H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Marty's binder Guys and Gals, I had Dutch rodmaker Marty Maas drop in to see me over the summer and ,asusual , we got around to discussing the difficulties of binding rods. Martyexplained to me the type of binder he was using. It was based on a design hehad been given by a old timer Dutch rodmaker. The simplicity of it appealedto me and Marty sent me some drawings on his return to Holland. I tried it last weekend on a rod I was making up and obtained a straightblank with very little twist. I thought it may be of interest to a few ofyou so have set out the details below.It is so simple it is almost a little difficult to explain. I will endeavourto attach Marty's diagram but as my son's are not here to help their poorold Dad on the computor blame me if it does not come through. ( Those whoattend the Southern Hemisphere gathering in March next year will be able tosee this binder in action. ) The principal of the binder is very simple, and the materials cost about$10. You also need a variable speed drill with a reverse direction knob. Youneed a section of hard plastic tube (Metal such as aluminium would also dobut it may be more expensive), about 1/2 inch in diameter, and a length of3" by 2" timber ( or similar) about 4'8" long.The plastic tube I used is the ducting used for house wiring but I saw asimilar hot water pipe tubing. You also need some hooks to hold the tubeonto the wood. I just used half a dozen "cup hooks" which were bolted intothe timber and the end of the cup hack sawed off. The concept is that youneed to hold the tube onto the timber for stability but have one side of thetube unobstructed. In hindsight it may be easiest just to epoxy it on to thetimber. The reason for having one side of the tube unobstructed is that you need tocut a slit in the tube the length of the tube. I used a thick circular diskon a Diemal tool to cut this groove but a small saw at a low angle would dothe job or a saw bench. The slit needs to be sanded back a little to give around , non thread cutting edge to the slit. The thickness of the slit needsto be about .020 to .035 , enough to take the binding thread. The tube ismounted so that there is about 4" of timber overhang at each end of thetube. Binding is then easy. The freshly glued blank, held with a few cord ties ormasking tape, is put into the tube with an inch or so protruding. Cover theprotuding end ( thicker end of the blank) with some clear film and attachthe chuck of the drill to it. Tie the binding thread to the blank in frontof the chuck and then have a friend ( SWMBO can help also) turn the drill onat slow speed after you lead the thread into the slit. I had the thread on afly tying bobbin and just used my hand for tension but I am sure there is abetter arrangement that can be made. While the rod is turning in the tubethe thread is lead along the length of the tube , in the slit. When the endis reached , and this does require a little co-ordination ( yelling) withthe drill operator to move the rod section back so that the overhang of therod length is bound and then poked out the end to be tied off. Then back to the chuck end and tie the thread again, reverse the drilldirection , and do a second binding run up the tube, this takes out most ofthe twist, then tie off again. Then run the drill at high speed in one direction for 10 seconds, reversethe direction , and run at high speed in the opposite direction for 10seconds. The rod section came out straight and with very little twist. This binder may not be ideal for very light tips, but I was doing a .070 tipand it was ok. It may be easier to have a seperate tube for each rod lengthbut they only take about a hour to build ( less if you have a saw bench tocut the slit and epoxy the tube onto the wooden support) so that is not ahassle. The concept is very simple and obvious and considerably simplier as a firstbinder then binders such as a Garrision. I have checked my effort at scanning and the pic does not show up too wellon the screen, but prints fine for those who may be interested. Ian from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 29 09:16:33 2001 f4TEGWT21349 Subject: RE: Why are fly rods tapered? Think parabolic curve. An untapered stick would form a circular curve(don't know if that's a correct dexcription, i mean a curve in which everysection has the same radius), a tapered stick forms a parabolic curve. Thelower, thicker end of the stick has less bend and also (I think) returns tostraight faster and with more power. This makes the rod accelerate as itstraightens. It also means that as the line straightens there is a "softerlanding" so to speak. The tip of the tapered rod is easier to bend so thatthe rod is cushioned as it straightens. A cast with an untapered stickwould have an abrupt stop as the backcast then the forecast straightened.That abrupt stop makes it dam near impossible to lay a straight cast. -----Original Message----- Subject: Why are fly rods tapered? I know, I know, it seems self evident. But I've been trying to put it into words. It doesn't seem as easy as whenIfirst started. Thoughts? ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 29 11:14:22 2001 f4TGELT25424 Subject: removing ferrule Some of you folks may remember the "crisis" I faced upon fracturing the tipsection of my first rod. I ultimately did a repair, finished the rod, andit fished beatifully this past weekend on the Firehole river. Threw my #16PMDs with utmost delicacy. At least it did until the tip broke (I built itwith only one tip). Guess my repair job sucked, and I was certainly morethan a bit clumsy. By the way, if you really want to test and improve yourcasting skills, break two feet off the top of your favorite 7' 4 wt. and tryto cast that sucker. My wife had dropped me at the river, my other rodswere in her car, I had 3.5 hours until she was gonna pick me up, and thePMDs were hatching, so of course I tried to fish the thing, after whittlingit down to the highest remaining guide. Let me tell you that taking apocket knife to your first rod in order to remove the broken material is asickening feeling. Rather than have another existential meltdown over the broken tip, I havesimply accepted the fact that this rod was meant to have a new tip. Inorder to build the new tip, though, I will have to reuse the male ferrule from the broken section. It was applied with polyurethane glue. I don'thave a lathe and my drill press stinks (so boring it out is not an option).Any suggestions on how to remove the old cane from the ferrule? from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue May 29 14:08:11 2001 f4TJ8AT02031 MAA22037 Subject: balance point/handle size While I was casting a vintage 9 foot rod which has what I consider to bea rather short grip, I found it more comfortable to cast with my handwell up on the cork, actually using some of the swelled butt portion ofthe rod itself to hang onto. That got me wondering about why we use 6 -7 inch grips which may not reach far enough up the rod to achieve a goodbalance in the hand. Is there some particular problem I'm just notseeing? On this rod, for instance, somewhere around an 8" - 8 1/2" gripwould have resulted in the balance point of the rod being within thecork grip area, rather than above it, making the rod seem nose-heavy. Seems like there's been a lot of past discussion about weight reduction,but I don't recall much about lengthening or moving the handle up, evenas much as a couple inches, to make the rod "feel" better. Anyone ever tried this approach? best to all - mac from jczimny@dol.net Tue May 29 15:25:20 2001 f4TKPJT04629 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Reels tended to be heavier in the past. Perhaps that is why the handles wereshorter.John Z Ralph MacKenzie wrote: While I was casting a vintage 9 foot rod which has what I consider to bea rather short grip, I found it more comfortable to cast with my handwell up on the cork, actually using some of the swelled butt portion ofthe rod itself to hang onto. That got me wondering about why we use 6 -7 inch grips which may not reach far enough up the rod to achieve a goodbalance in the hand. Is there some particular problem I'm just notseeing? On this rod, for instance, somewhere around an 8" - 8 1/2" gripwould have resulted in the balance point of the rod being within thecork grip area, rather than above it, making the rod seem nose-heavy. Seems like there's been a lot of past discussion about weight reduction,but I don't recall much about lengthening or moving the handle up, evenas much as a couple inches, to make the rod "feel" better. Anyone ever tried this approach? best to all - mac from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue May 29 15:43:43 2001 f4TKhgT05288 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size mac,People (and their hands) were smaller 80 years ago. I have a 10' salmon rod with a 4.5" grip, go figure. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue May 29 15:50:20 2001 f4TKoKT05666 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size I find when I'm casting that my hand "migrates" toward the reel. Thishappens with bamboo and those other kind of rods. Anglers Roost Fly Shop,Pointe Claire, Quebec, has recently patented a reel seat/cork grip thataccommodates this hand position and offers this as an option on several rodmodels. You will see the store's advertisement in a forth coming issue ofFly Rod and Reel. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue May 29 16:16:08 2001 f4TLG3T06550 Tue, 29 May 2001 14:15:50 -0700 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Ted,My hand does the same thing. Got a phone number or email or website forAnglers Roost?? I'd like to give it a look. Harry Ted wrote: I find when I'm casting that my hand "migrates" toward the reel. Thishappens with bamboo and those other kind of rods. Anglers Roost FlyShop,Pointe Claire, Quebec, has recently patented a reel seat/cork grip thataccommodates this hand position and offers this as an option on severalrodmodels. from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue May 29 16:19:48 2001 f4TLJkT06857 Subject: RE: balance point/handle size I always figured that the "migrating hand syndrome" must be a symptom ofsome rod- or casting-related problem. I've never figured out what problemthat might be, but I figured maybe it was an unconscious effort to lengthenthe rod, or maybe it was caused by an overweight reel. I don't know, but ithappens to me with some rods, but not with others. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Ted,My hand does the same thing. Got a phone number or email or website forAnglers Roost?? I'd like to give it a look. Harry Ted wrote: I find when I'm casting that my hand "migrates" toward the reel. Thishappens with bamboo and those other kind of rods. Anglers Roost FlyShop,Pointe Claire, Quebec, has recently patented a reel seat/cork grip thataccommodates this hand position and offers this as an option on severalrodmodels. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue May 29 16:30:57 2001 f4TLUuT07493 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Reed et al,I do not think our being smaller 80 years ago had much to do with the handle size. No offense Reed but this hypothesis seems a little ludicrous. If you look at handles from different manufacturers you will see many different sizes throughout the years. I have an older rod from about 1920or so that the handle is every bit of 6 1/2 "s long and I also have one from the same era where the handle is only 5"s. Both rods are 8' so I think it had something to do with who and where it was made, ie Eastern or Western. Look at older Paynes and how small their handles are. Not only length wise but diameter as well. Some people would complain about Payne's handle sbeing to small by today's standards, but having smaller hands I find the size very comfortable. One other thing as well, now this goes back to being a casting instructor (I bet you guys get tired of hearing this) I teach people to try and keep their hands back over the reel area as much as I can to help in the casting stroke. Try this and see if it does not help in your casting stroke, that is after you get used to it. this is on the smaller rods where it works the best.Bret from horsesho@ptd.net Tue May 29 16:42:57 2001 f4TLgvT08482 0000 Subject: Re: removing ferrule Bore a small hole in the cane that is in the ferrule. Insert a small screw. Heatthe ferrule and pull the screw. I think poly glue will soften with heat. Marty jmpio@nhbm.com wrote: Some of you folks may remember the "crisis" I faced upon fracturing thetipsection of my first rod. I ultimately did a repair, finished the rod, andit fished beatifully this past weekend on the Firehole river. Threw my #16PMDs with utmost delicacy. At least it did until the tip broke (I built itwith only one tip). Guess my repair job sucked, and I was certainly morethan a bit clumsy. By the way, if you really want to test and improve yourcasting skills, break two feet off the top of your favorite 7' 4 wt. and tryto cast that sucker. My wife had dropped me at the river, my other rodswere in her car, I had 3.5 hours until she was gonna pick me up, and thePMDs were hatching, so of course I tried to fish the thing, after whittlingit down to the highest remaining guide. Let me tell you that taking apocket knife to your first rod in order to remove the broken material is asickening feeling. Rather than have another existential meltdown over the broken tip, I havesimply accepted the fact that this rod was meant to have a new tip. Inorder to build the new tip, though, I will have to reuse the male ferrule from the broken section. It was applied with polyurethane glue. I don'thave a lathe and my drill press stinks (so boring it out is not an option).Any suggestions on how to remove the old cane from the ferrule? from sats@gte.net Tue May 29 17:03:59 2001 f4TM3xT09211 Subject: Why are fly rods tapered? I don't know if this made it the first time or not. I know, I know, it seems self evident. But I've been trying to put it into words to update my web page. It doesn'tseem as easy as when I first started. I know, in my minds eye, but putting itin words is hard. Thoughts? ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from channer@frontier.net Tue May 29 19:03:07 2001 f4U036T11844 Subject: Re: removing ferrule Jim;Just heat the sucker up, aim it at a soft surface, and wait for it toblow, it will come off like a bullet from a gun. If you're not thatgame, heat it a little, then pull it off with a pair of heavy gloves, ormake a ferrule puller from a piece aof wood.John jmpio@nhbm.com wrote: Some of you folks may remember the "crisis" I faced upon fracturing thetipsection of my first rod. I ultimately did a repair, finished the rod, andit fished beatifully this past weekend on the Firehole river. Threw my #16PMDs with utmost delicacy. At least it did until the tip broke (I built itwith only one tip). Guess my repair job sucked, and I was certainly morethan a bit clumsy. By the way, if you really want to test and improve yourcasting skills, break two feet off the top of your favorite 7' 4 wt. and tryto cast that sucker. My wife had dropped me at the river, my other rodswere in her car, I had 3.5 hours until she was gonna pick me up, and thePMDs were hatching, so of course I tried to fish the thing, after whittlingit down to the highest remaining guide. Let me tell you that taking apocket knife to your first rod in order to remove the broken material is asickening feeling. Rather than have another existential meltdown over the broken tip, I havesimply accepted the fact that this rod was meant to have a new tip. Inorder to build the new tip, though, I will have to reuse the male ferrule from the broken section. It was applied with polyurethane glue. I don'thave a lathe and my drill press stinks (so boring it out is not an option).Any suggestions on how to remove the old cane from the ferrule? from jojo@ipa.net Tue May 29 20:16:43 2001 f4U1GhT13293 Subject: Fw: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Hi guys: The List has been too sedate for too long. I thought I'd post this and seeif we couldn't get some discussion going. The following is from an ongoingconversation I had with someone who is more than a little knowledgeableabout bonding systems. En garde! M-D Raw epon 828 with any hardener system is a very poor bonding agent. TheDevcon products are not products designed for rod building as they arebasically high shear systems. They do not have the wetting or the lowmodulus required for our rods.[Edited]. . .very little bond integrity is needed to hold a ferruletogether. Anything pliable is far preferable to the brittle epoxies thatmost rod makers insist on using. This is why the hot melts work so well ifthey are used correctly. Improper glue joint thickness should not ever be afactor, as the fit between the rod and the ferrule should be snug before itis bonded. I have had world class bamboo rod makers show me how to usewrapping thread to create a gap between the bamboo and the metal ferrulebefore bonding in order to obtain optimum bond strength. This fallacy wasfirst started by Rodcrafters and has poisoned many minds world wide. Anybond joint must be closely fitted and snug before bonding, irrespective ofthe bonding agent. I too have seen ferrules break at the pin, butexamination has always portrayed a very poor pin job. Much too large ahole, improper centering, insufficient edge margin to name a few. The veryfact that proper pinning is sufficient to hold a bamboo ferrule together isenough evidence to show that when bonded, there is very very little load onthe bond. I am thinking of shear loads which is the only load possible on abond of this configuration. Temperature differentials become anotherproblem with other solutions. from drinkr@voicenet.com Tue May 29 20:38:36 2001 f4U1caT13905 (209.71.50.138) Subject: RE: balance point/handle size RalphI find balance more important in just holding the rod during fishing forhours on end. I just finished an 8' 6wt. that balances about 3/4 " abovethe cork I find my hand drifting onto the bamboo after fishing for hoursbecause the tip drop. I use a heavier reel Peerless 2a and don't notice thecasting weight much. Its is the balance point which I think makes a rodfeel comfortable overall during hours of fishing . I have toyed with the reel seats to push the reel back but I think extending the cork seat mightbe a better solution even if my hand wants to drift back during casting.----- Original Message----- Subject: balance point/handle size While I was casting a vintage 9 foot rod which has what I consider to bea rather short grip, I found it more comfortable to cast with my handwell up on the cork, actually using some of the swelled butt portion ofthe rod itself to hang onto. That got me wondering about why we use 6 -7 inch grips which may not reach far enough up the rod to achieve a goodbalance in the hand. Is there some particular problem I'm just notseeing? On this rod, for instance, somewhere around an 8" - 8 1/2" gripwould have resulted in the balance point of the rod being within thecork grip area, rather than above it, making the rod seem nose-heavy. Seems like there's been a lot of past discussion about weight reduction,but I don't recall much about lengthening or moving the handle up, evenas much as a couple inches, to make the rod "feel" better. Anyone ever tried this approach? best to all - mac from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue May 29 21:32:22 2001 f4U2WLT14749 Tue, 29 May 2001 19:32:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Fw: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? MD,Been thinking about this conversation for a coupla days now. Saw where itstarted in another forum. There is no doubt that the fellow with whom youarecorresponding knows more about glues and other sticky stuff than I ever will.No question, he is a renowned expert in the field. He and I had neighboring booths at a show in 2000. I think you were there,MD??? You may remember the incident described in this post. He and I talked agreat deal about glues. No question, he understands rods, rod making, andglues. Better than almost anyone I know. Far better than me. I asked him what glue he would use for making bamboo rods. He neverhesitated to say that he would use a urea formaldehyde glue like Urac 185. WhenI told him that I used Epon, he looked and acted incredulous. "No way!"hesaid, "That glue will never work on Bamboo rods. No way at all. The rods willbe so limber there will be no way to cast them." About that time, I handedhimboth my 8'6" 9 weight, my 8' 5 weight, and my 7'6" 2 weight. All were strungup. My remark, "Well, maybe it won't work in theory, but it works fine in reallife. Here are three examples. Go cast them and see for yourself...." Hedid. When he came back indoors, he got more specific. Seems the chiefingredient in the epoxy wrap finish he produces sells is none other than Epon828! The hardener is Versamid 3140. He acts like he adds a few ingredientslike "eye of newt", but I'm not so sure. My new friend Mr. ROQ then grabbed the little 4 weight para that so manyofyou cast at last year's SRG. He bent one of the tips into a horse shoe. Thenthe other. This is a three piece rod, mind you, and he actually touched thetiptop to the male ferrule. I just knew he was going to break them. If hehad,well, he would have owned a nice looking parabolic rod, or at least parts ofone. Anyone else doing that to one of my rods would have heard a nice littlesermon -- one I can't preach on Sundays!! The conversation went on with a string of questions. "What hardener doyouuse? What's your drying regimen? Oh, so you heat set the glue, huh? Whattemperature? For how long?" To shorten this story just a little bit, I never did convince him that onecan make a bamboo rod using Epon. He just couldn't get his mind around the I think this proves something, but I'm not exactly sure what. Perhaps itproves that what seems to be true in the lab really ought to be proved in reallife before one is willing to stake his reputation on it. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Hi guys: The List has been too sedate for too long. I thought I'd post this and seeif we couldn't get some discussion going. The following is from an ongoingconversation I had with someone who is more than a little knowledgeableabout bonding systems. En garde! --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from b2g@jps.net Wed May 30 00:46:47 2001 f4U5kkT17793 0000 Subject: Bamboo Font Just thought that I would pop a general question to the list. I was tryingto find a bamboo looking true type font for my computer and I was wonderingif anyone on the list has one that they might want to share? Thanks in advance Robert H. from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 30 01:38:01 2001 f4U6c0T18949 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Fw: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Harry,I remember both the incident and the rod (I was at that show for thefishing and didn't have a booth, but enjoyed the exchange among the listmembers that did show up... MD, RG, Jim, Ken and others). Even though, bymany in the rodmaking community, this individual is considered an "expert",I will definitely affirm that his assertation that Epon could not make agood fly rod was proven wrong by his own actions. Don't get me wrong. I'ma Urea Formaldehyde fan and will probably die that way (of cancer, nodoubt... you know what the Gov't says about that formaldehyde! *S*), but his"assumption" that Epon would not make a good rod was definitely provenwrong Don't get me wrong... I still think URAC is the best adhesive for bamboothat's available today, but, as Dennis Miller says, that's just my opinion,and I COULD be wrong! :^ ) later,Bob MD,Been thinking about this conversation for a coupla days now. Sawwhere itstarted in another forum. There is no doubt that the fellow with whom youarecorresponding knows more about glues and other sticky stuff than I everwill.No question, he is a renowned expert in the field. He and I had neighboring booths at a show in 2000. I think you werethere,MD??? You may remember the incident described in this post. He and Italked agreat deal about glues. No question, he understands rods, rod making, andglues. Better than almost anyone I know. Far better than me. I asked him what glue he would use for making bamboo rods. He neverhesitated to say that he would use a urea formaldehyde glue like Urac 185.WhenI told him that I used Epon, he looked and acted incredulous. "No way!"hesaid, "That glue will never work on Bamboo rods. No way at all. The rodswillbe so limber there will be no way to cast them." About that time, Ihanded himboth my 8'6" 9 weight, my 8' 5 weight, and my 7'6" 2 weight. All werestrungup. My remark, "Well, maybe it won't work in theory, but it works fine inreallife. Here are three examples. Go cast them and see for yourself...."He did. When he came back indoors, he got more specific. Seems the chiefingredient in the epoxy wrap finish he produces sells is none other thanEpon828! The hardener is Versamid 3140. He acts like he adds a fewingredientslike "eye of newt", but I'm not so sure. My new friend Mr. ROQ then grabbed the little 4 weight para that somany ofyou cast at last year's SRG. He bent one of the tips into a horse shoe.Thenthe other. This is a three piece rod, mind you, and he actually touchedthetiptop to the male ferrule. I just knew he was going to break them. Ifhe had,well, he would have owned a nice looking parabolic rod, or at least partsofone. Anyone else doing that to one of my rods would have heard a nicelittlesermon -- one I can't preach on Sundays!! The conversation went on with a string of questions. "What hardenerdo youuse? What's your drying regimen? Oh, so you heat set the glue, huh?Whattemperature? For how long?" To shorten this story just a little bit, I never did convince him thatonecan make a bamboo rod using Epon. He just couldn't get his mind aroundthe I think this proves something, but I'm not exactly sure what. Perhapsitproves that what seems to be true in the lab really ought to be proved inreallife before one is willing to stake his reputation on it. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Hi guys: The List has been too sedate for too long. I thought I'd post this andseeif we couldn't get some discussion going. The following is from anongoingconversation I had with someone who is more than a little knowledgeableabout bonding systems. En garde! --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dnorl@qwest.net Wed May 30 08:11:39 2001 f4UDBcT23993 0000 (63.228.47.22) Subject: Re: Fw: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Harry,I forgot! What does John Zimny say about Epon.Who was it that said "It aint what you don't know that gets you in trouble,it's what you know that aint so that gets you in trouble."Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fw: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? MD,Been thinking about this conversation for a coupla days now. Saw whereitstarted in another forum. There is no doubt that the fellow with whom youarecorresponding knows more about glues and other sticky stuff than I everwill.No question, he is a renowned expert in the field. He and I had neighboring booths at a show in 2000. I think you werethere,MD??? You may remember the incident described in this post. He and Italked agreat deal about glues. No question, he understands rods, rod making, andglues. Better than almost anyone I know. Far better than me. I asked him what glue he would use for making bamboo rods. He neverhesitated to say that he would use a urea formaldehyde glue like Urac 185.WhenI told him that I used Epon, he looked and acted incredulous. "No way!" hesaid, "That glue will never work on Bamboo rods. No way at all. The rodswillbe so limber there will be no way to cast them." About that time, I handedhimboth my 8'6" 9 weight, my 8' 5 weight, and my 7'6" 2 weight. All werestrungup. My remark, "Well, maybe it won't work in theory, but it works fine inreallife. Here are three examples. Go cast them and see for yourself...." Hedid. When he came back indoors, he got more specific. Seems the chiefingredient in the epoxy wrap finish he produces sells is none other thanEpon828! The hardener is Versamid 3140. He acts like he adds a fewingredientslike "eye of newt", but I'm not so sure. My new friend Mr. ROQ then grabbed the little 4 weight para that somany ofyou cast at last year's SRG. He bent one of the tips into a horse shoe.Thenthe other. This is a three piece rod, mind you, and he actually touchedthetiptop to the male ferrule. I just knew he was going to break them. If hehad,well, he would have owned a nice looking parabolic rod, or at least partsofone. Anyone else doing that to one of my rods would have heard a nicelittlesermon -- one I can't preach on Sundays!! The conversation went on with a string of questions. "What hardenerdo youuse? What's your drying regimen? Oh, so you heat set the glue, huh? Whattemperature? For how long?" To shorten this story just a little bit, I never did convince him thatonecan make a bamboo rod using Epon. He just couldn't get his mind around the I think this proves something, but I'm not exactly sure what. Perhapsitproves that what seems to be true in the lab really ought to be proved inreallife before one is willing to stake his reputation on it. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Hi guys: The List has been too sedate for too long. I thought I'd post this andseeif we couldn't get some discussion going. The following is from anongoingconversation I had with someone who is more than a little knowledgeableabout bonding systems. En garde! --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Wed May 30 08:28:11 2001 f4UDSBT24908 0400 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Was just reading the discussion about handle size and was wondering whygrips are not made to fit the client? In my shop every grip is a balancebetween balancing the rod and fitting the client's hand. Even productiongrips can be altered somewhat, not that I use them. Just wondering, takecare, Tim. Upstream Always Tim DoughtyRodmaker Normal0DocumentEmail Was just reading the discussion about handle size and was =wondering whygrips are not made to fit the client? In my shop every grip is a balancebetween balancing the rod and fitting the client=92s hand. Even =production gripscan be altered somewhat, not that I use them. Just wondering, take care, =Tim. =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =Signature" Upstream =Always Tim Doughty Rodmaker from EESweet@aol.com Wed May 30 12:02:02 2001 f4UH21T03155 May 2001 13:01:49 2000 Subject: PMQ ferrule Hey all, Just wondering if anyone might have a description of the ferrule- lessconnection sometimes used on the PMQ? I believe it's usually secured withelectrical tape. Was it a simple scarf joint or something more than that? Thanks! Eric from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 30 15:14:37 2001 f4UKEaT09953 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 30 May 2001 14:42:35 -0500 Subject: Virus Warning-Alert! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. List, The following was sent to people that I normally email offlist, =but figured I better send it to the list just in case this thing snuck =through. My Virus Scan did NOT pick it up. Just follow the =instructions in the content below and you should be rid of it.It shouldn't have gotten to the list, but then again, it shouldn't =have gotten to my computer either through my security... plus the fact =that I don't ever open attachments unless I know they are coming, what =they are and who they are from, but it snuck through my system. Please =check all of your computers and delete this puppy if you have it.Bob I just got this email below and followed the instructions. I did, =indeed have the virus on my computer, so I've gone back and sent this to =everyone that I've sent an email to since the last time I did a virus =scan. It's easy to get rid of, but MUST be deleted from your computer =before it's activation date, so check now and see if it's there. =Instructions on the virus, it's filename and how to delete it are =included in the email below. Bob Hello, people independently. Maybe you want to check if "you" are infected?! Subject: Virus Warning-Alert! This morning I received an email warning regarding a virus set to "go = on1 June 2001. Please check your computer as suggested below; we found thevirus on three of four computers: Al Beatty The virus travels throught e-mail and migrates to the'C:\windows\command'folder. To find it and get rid of it from your computer do thefollowing: Go to the "START' buttonGo to "FIND" or "SEARCH"Go to "FILES & FOLDERS"Make sure the find box is searching the "C" drive.Type in: SULFNBK.EXEBegin searchIf it finds this file, highlite it, but DO NOT OPEN ITGo to "File" and delete itDlose the FIND dialog boxOpen the Recycle Binfind the file and delete it from the Recycle bin.The Good news is you should now be safe.The BAD NEWS is that if you detect the virus, you inturn need to contact everyone you have sent ANY e-mailto in the past few months, and share this warning withthem.Do not rely on your anti-virus software. NeitherMcAfee nor norton can detect this virus because itdoes not become a virus until June 1. On that date, itwill be too late. Whastever you do. do not open thefile! Sorry for the inconvenience-I hope that's all it willbe. email offlist, but figured I better send it to the list just in case = instructions in the content below and you should be rid of =it. security... plus the fact that I don't ever open attachments unless I = are coming, what they are and who they are from, but it snuck through my = have it.Bob back and sent this to everyone that I've sent an email to since the last = computer before it's activation date, so check now and see if it's = Instructions on the virus, it's filename and how to delete it are = the email below. Bob to = know that I received this virus warning from two people = Warning-Alert!This morning I received an email warning = virus set to "go off" on1 June 2001. Please check your computer= get = = be too late. Whastever you do. do not open = from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed May 30 15:18:35 2001 f4UKIYT10225 Subject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! I had this come through the office here at work yesterday. It is ahoax. -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed May 30 15:20:58 2001 f4UKKvT10529 Subject: RE: Virus Warning-Alert! Todd, do you have any more info on this hoax. The file referred to in Bob'se- mail does indeed exist. Do you know what it is? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! I had this come through the office here at work yesterday. It is ahoax. -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed May 30 15:25:41 2001 f4UKPeT10874 Wed, 30 May 2001 13:25:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! --------------E92201C5B8C392E274863AA7 Folks,Be very careful before you follow these directions. Youcan really mess up lots of stuff. The file mentioned isSUPPOSED to be in the folder described. It's part ofWindows. from what I understand, if you find a file withthe same name in a DIFFERENT folder, then and only then doyou have problems.Go to Symantec's website and see what they have to sayabout this before you follow the instructions below. Harry Bob Nunley wrote: List, The following was sent to people that I normallyemail offlist, but figured I better send it to the listjust in case this thing snuck through. My Virus Scan didNOT pick it up. Just follow the instructions in thecontent below and you should be rid of it. It shouldn'thave gotten to the list, but then again, it shouldn't havegotten to my computer either through my security... plusthe fact that I don't ever open attachments unless I knowthey are coming, what they are and who they are from, butit snuck through my system. Please check all of yourcomputers and delete this puppy if you have it.Bob I justgot this email below and followed the instructions. Idid, indeed have the virus on my computer, so I've goneback and sent this to everyone that I've sent an email tosince the last time I did a virus scan. It's easy to getrid of, but MUST be deleted from your computer before it'sactivation date, so check now and see if it's there.Instructions on the virus, it's filename and how to deleteit are included in the email below. Bob Hello, just wanted to let you know that I received this viruswarning from twopeople independently. Maybe you want to check if "you" areinfected?! Subject: Virus Warning-Alert! This morning I received an email warning regarding a virusset to "go off"on1 June 2001. Please check your computer as suggestedbelow; we found thevirus on three of four computers: Al Beatty The virus travels throught e-mail and migrates to the'C:\windows\command'folder. To find it and get rid of it from your computer do thefollowing: Go to the "START' buttonGo to "FIND" or "SEARCH"Go to "FILES & FOLDERS"Make sure the find box is searching the "C" drive.Type in: SULFNBK.EXEBegin searchIf it finds this file, highlite it, but DO NOT OPEN ITGo to "File" and delete itDlose the FIND dialog boxOpen the Recycle Binfind the file and delete it from the Recycle bin.The Good news is you should now be safe.The BAD NEWS is that if you detect the virus, you inturn need to contact everyone you have sent ANY e-mailto in the past few months, and share this warning withthem.Do not rely on your anti-virus software. NeitherMcAfee nor norton can detect this virus because itdoes not become a virus until June 1. On that date, itwill be too late. Whastever you do. do not open thefile! Sorry for the inconvenience-I hope that's all it willbe. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------E92201C5B8C392E274863AA7 Folks, I understand, if you find a file with the same name in a DIFFERENT folder,then and only then do you have problems. to say about this before you follow the instructions below. Bob Nunley wrote: was sent to people that I normally email offlist, but figured I better It shouldn't have gotten to the list, but then again, it shouldn't havegotten to my computer either through my security... plus the fact thatI don't ever open attachments unless I know they are coming, what they check all of your computers and delete this puppy if you have have the virus on my computer, so I've gone back and sent this to everyone It's easy to get rid of, but MUST be deleted from your computer before on the virus, it's filename and how to delete it are included in the email Hello,just wanted to let you know that I received this virus warning fromtwopeople independently. Maybe you want to check if "you" are infected?!Subject: Virus Warning-Alert! This morning I received an email warning regarding a virus set to "gooff"on1 June 2001. Please check your computer as suggested below; we foundthevirus on three of four computers: Al Beatty --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------E92201C5B8C392E274863AA7-- from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed May 30 15:26:39 2001 f4UKQcT11063 Subject: RE: Virus Warning-Alert! Just took a quick trip to the Norton website. This is, indeed, a hoax.Bob, you been suckered. :-)). The file in question is in fact a Windowsfile and part of the operating system. It is supposed to reside in thewindows/commands directory. Harry is correct on this one, according toSymantec, the makers of Norton Anti-Virus. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! I had this come through the office here at work yesterday. It is ahoax. -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from cotner@novagate.com Wed May 30 15:31:16 2001 f4UKVFT11594 f4UKV6G77792; "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! Bob & List - I received a similar warning, and then the following followup onanother list. I don't know anything about this, but suggest you notdelete anything until you have read the McAfee materials.Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan Quoted message from another list starts here: I have received many messages from various list servs concerning theSULFNBK.EXE virus. IT IS A HOAX. Do not delete it from your computer. Here is a link from macafee discussing the hoax. Hope this helps you avert disaster. Don L. Rosenberg Barron, Rosenberg, Mayoras & Mayoras, P.C.200 East Long Lake Rd., Ste 180Bloomfield Hills, MI 48304 WEB SITE: www.brmmlaw.com 248.647.4440248.647.4727 (fax) This E-Mail is confidential, intended for only the recipients(s) namedaboveand may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product orexempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received thismessage in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediatelynotify the sender at rosedr@mediaone.net and delete this EMail fromyour computer.Thank you. http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99084 McAfee.com - Virus Information Library.url Name: McAfee.com - VirusInformation Library.urlType: Internet Shortcut (application/x-unknown-content-type-InternetShortcut)Encoding: 7bit from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed May 30 16:06:15 2001 f4UL6ET13446 2001 14:06:14 PDT Subject: RE: Virus Warning-Alert! http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sulfnbk.exe.warning.html HERE, GENTLEMEN, IS THE BUZZ! timothy --- jmpio@nhbm.com wrote:Just took a quick trip to the Norton website. Thisis, indeed, a hoax.Bob, you been suckered. :-)). The file in questionis in fact a Windowsfile and part of the operating system. It issupposed to reside in thewindows/commands directory. Harry is correct onthis one, according toSymantec, the makers of Norton Anti-Virus. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 2:16 PM Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSubject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! I had this come through the office here at workyesterday. It is ahoax. -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Wed May 30 17:07:19 2001 f4UM7IT15474 f4UMAEq15466 0500 Subject: Re: HOAX: Virus Alert I just got this in a post.Check it out.Tony FlyTyr@soutthshore.com In The Spotlight Wed, May 30, 2001 Sulfnbk.exe - Recovering from CDMany have followed the instructions of a bogus virus warning and deletedthe legimitate SULFNBK.EXE file. These simple steps can be used torestore any operating system file that has been corrupted orinadvertently deleted. http://antivirus.about.com/compute/antivirus/library/weekly/mcurrent.htm?once=true& SULFNBK.EXE, a utility shipped as part of the Windows 98 operatingsystem that allows users to restore long file names, and now the victimof a bogus virus warning. The hoax message urges users to search theirsystems for the presence of SULFNBK.EXE and, if found, delete it. Ofcourse, it's a legitimate Win98 operating system file, so anyone runningWindows 98 will find it. And many, it seems, have deleted it. Followingare the steps to take to restore SULFNBK.EXE from your Windows 98operating system CD. You will want to have your Windows 98 operating CDin the CD-ROM drive bay. If the program autoruns (launches), just from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed May 30 17:24:53 2001 f4UMOqT16021 (63.225.233.56) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: HOAX: Virus Alert Well, I hate to state the obvious, but all you people ought to go out an getyourselves a Macintosh! I haven't yet seen a virus come down the line thatwas built to get into my machine. I've been reading the virus scares onthis list for the last six months or so, and I can't stay quiet any longer.Long live the Macintosh! All in fun, of course... ;^) Jason Swan from flytyr@southshore.com Wed May 30 17:35:43 2001 f4UMZgT16533 f4UMcfq19214 0500 Subject: Flattening nodes I guess I did not save the post about two weeksago, so I don't know who to thank for this.A post last week or two mentioned a german rodmaker that flattens his nodes without filing themfirst. He used a plate??? with a slot in it orsomething to that effect.I just finished flattening 18 strips and that isthe way to go. It may not be traditional but thenodes came out beautiful. I took a length of 1/2"X 1/8" aluminum strap, (hardware store stuff) thelength of my vise jaws, filed a narrow "V" grooveacross the middle to accommodate the node ridgeand attached it to one vise jaw with double sidedtape.I soak my strips for three days and it don't takemuch heat to soften the nodes up. After the nodeswere flattened there was only the little narrowridge to be filed off. A couple of strokes tookcare of that. The enamel is still up to that ridgeline.All I can see is a fine line where the ridge was.On the finished rod there will be just a narrowline where the node was or none at all..Will report on how it looks when I finish up theblank. I am real satisfied with the results. Itreally seemed easier to flatten the nodes thisway.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from bob@downandacross.com Wed May 30 17:38:12 2001 f4UMcAT16732 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: HOAX: Virus Alert, now Macintosh computers Jason:This is true. I have four Macs at work and I know first hand that they do not get affected by viruses. The reason however, is that they don't seem to need viruses to crash every five minutes, they do that all by themselves. I think that the Macs are partially responsible for the miseducation of America. I regularly spend 45 minute classes in the computer lab at school getting the kids to only finish about 10 minutes of work due to those pretty iMacs crashing left and right. You have to hand it to them though because they have managed to put them in every school in America. Ok,RANT OFF...Touche, all in fun...Bob M. P.S. I will come clean and admit I got tricked too, and I f----d up my computer. Oh well. (Don't worry Bob, I still luv ya buddy!) At 04:24 PM 5/30/2001 -0600, Jason Swan wrote:Well, I hate to state the obvious, but all you people ought to go out an getyourselves a Macintosh! I haven't yet seen a virus come down the line thatwas built to get into my machine. I've been reading the virus scares onthis list for the last six months or so, and I can't stay quiet any longer.Long live the Macintosh! All in fun, of course... ;^) Jason Swan from bob@downandacross.com Wed May 30 17:40:06 2001 f4UMe5T16959 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: HOAX: Virus Alert, Restore the system HI Tony:Notice at the bottom where it mentions if you have a restore disc and not your operating system, you are basically out of luck until you find one. Guess which one I have?LOL,Bob At 05:09 PM 5/30/2001 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:I just got this in a post.Check it out.Tony FlyTyr@soutthshore.com In The Spotlight Wed, May 30, 2001 Sulfnbk.exe - Recovering from CDMany have followed the instructions of a bogus virus warning and deletedthe legimitate SULFNBK.EXE file. These simple steps can be used torestore any operating system file that has been corrupted orinadvertently deleted. http://antivirus.about.com/compute/antivirus/library/weekly/mcurrent.htm?once=true& from bob@downandacross.com Wed May 30 17:41:52 2001 f4UMfoT17197 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Good news. I will try it Tony,Bob, the sucker At 05:37 PM 5/30/2001 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:I guess I did not save the post about two weeksago, so I don't know who to thank for this.A post last week or two mentioned a german rodmaker that flattens his nodes without filing themfirst. He used a plate??? with a slot in it orsomething to that effect. from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed May 30 17:51:22 2001 f4UMpLT17711 Subject: drip/dip tubes I've decided to build a dip or drip system, trying to decide on details. Iwant to go extremely low tech, and spend the absolute minimum $ (I'm broke,and any extra $ I get is spent on fishing trips). I'll pick up one of thosetubes for flourescent lights. Beyond that, it seems to me that dip iseasier to make work right than drip. But can anyone suggest a manualmethodof dipping (i.e., no motors please). I was thinking that a simple pulleymounted to the ceiling, with a line going from rod over pulley to a spoolwith a crank (or even to an old fly reel) would keep things simple. What doyou think, is dip easier than drip, or vice versa? from bob@downandacross.com Wed May 30 17:57:19 2001 f4UMvIT18119 Subject: Re: drip/dip tubes --=====================_2962337==_.ALT Dip is easier if you don't like to exchange your varnish all the time from one can to another. The reel idea works fairly well, and a stepper motor set up could be done down the road. If you want to drip, see Tony's great article in Power Fibers, October issue.Bob At 04:54 PM 5/30/2001 -0600, jmpio@nhbm.com wrote:I've decided to build a dip or drip system, trying to decide on details. Iwant to go extremely low tech, and spend the absolute minimum $ (I'mbroke,and any extra $ I get is spent on fishing trips). I'll pick up one of thosetubes for flourescent lights. Beyond that, it seems to me that dip iseasier to make work right than drip. But can anyone suggest a manualmethodof dipping (i.e., no motors please). I was thinking that a simple pulleymounted to the ceiling, with a line going from rod over pulley to a spoolwith a crank (or even to an old fly reel) would keep things simple. What doyou think, is dip easier than drip, or vice versa? Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_2962337==_.ALT Dip is easier if you don't like to exchange your varnish all the time from one can to another. The reel idea works fairly well, and a steppermotor set up could be done down the road. If you want to drip, see Tony'sgreat article in Power Fibers, October issue.BobAt 04:54 PM 5/30/2001 -0600, jmpio@nhbm.com wrote:I've decided to build a dip or drip want to go extremely low tech, and spend the absolute minimum $ (I'mbroke, of those iseasier to make work right than drip. But can anyone suggest a manualmethod pulleymounted to the ceiling, with a line going from rod over pulley to aspool What doyou think, is dip easier than drip, or vice versa? Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_2962337==_.ALT-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed May 30 18:13:56 2001 f4UNDtT18715 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 May 2001 16:13:39 -0700 Subject: Re: drip/dip tubes f4UNDuT18718 "extra money spent on fishing trips". That's good, you have your prioritiesstraight. I use an old cheap fly rod tube, epoxied around the base cap seam to seal it,cut off below the collar with a rubber cap and hose clamp to seal the top. I have an old junker level wind reel with some of that original black nylon?braided line. It's attached in the center of a square of wood to give itstability and weight. I sit this on the counter and run the line up through aneye bolt screwed into the ceiling. The eye bolt is lined up with the dip tube. A pulley is overkill. The line is tied to a paper clip shaped into a hook. Iattach a flat of masking tape to the section I am dipping, make a little hole inthe tape, and insert the hook into the tape. Pretty high tech so far right? I withdraw the section six clicks of the reel every 30 seconds which equatesto about 2.5 inches per minute. I could set up something automated and walkaway, but I like to see the finish as it is created, so the reeling gives mesomething to do while I'm standing there in a puddle of drool. This is a low budget, low tech method that has worked well for me. Chrismcdowellc@lanecc.edu 05/30/01 03:54PM >>>I've decided to build a dip or drip system, trying to decide on details. Iwant to go extremely low tech, and spend the absolute minimum $ (I'm broke,and any extra $ I get is spent on fishing trips). I'll pick up one of thosetubes for flourescent lights. Beyond that, it seems to me that dip iseasier to make work right than drip. But can anyone suggest a manualmethodof dipping (i.e., no motors please). I was thinking that a simple pulleymounted to the ceiling, with a line going from rod over pulley to a spoolwith a crank (or even to an old fly reel) would keep things simple. What doyou think, is dip easier than drip, or vice versa? from caneman@clnk.com Wed May 30 18:21:01 2001 f4UNL1T19095 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Wed, 30 May 2001 17:49:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! Yep, after years of avoiding viruses, ignoring chain letters and deletingunknown attachments, I got suckered by a hoax! Slapping myself on the head and have restored the file to my Command directory. If anyone deleted thisfile, and can't get it back from your restore disc, just email me and I'llsend it your way. Sorry for all the trouble.Bob ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Virus Warning-Alert! http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sulfnbk.exe.warning.html HERE, GENTLEMEN, IS THE BUZZ! timothy --- jmpio@nhbm.com wrote:Just took a quick trip to the Norton website. Thisis, indeed, a hoax.Bob, you been suckered. :-)). The file in questionis in fact a Windowsfile and part of the operating system. It issupposed to reside in thewindows/commands directory. Harry is correct onthis one, according toSymantec, the makers of Norton Anti-Virus. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 2:16 PM Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSubject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! I had this come through the office here at workyesterday. It is ahoax. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Finanplanr@aol.com Wed May 30 19:22:49 2001 f4V0MmT20167 Subject: OK, but just to make sure........ Hi All, I read the *warning* about this virus and checked the Symantic website hoax announcement, but it seems awfully odd that the copy of that file which IS in the mentioned directory of both my computers, which is to be expected if it is, indeed, a required Windows operating file, just happens to have a rather bizarre looking graphic to the left of the file name. In the FIND command window it almost looks like an apple lying on its side, but when deleted and placed into the recycle bin, the graphic is larger and seems to say, in 5 segments, *l f n s k*. I have never seen a graphic like this next to any computer file in the last 20 years. Does anyone else have such a graphic next to the filename on their computer?? Curious in Colorado,Stuart from jojo@ipa.net Wed May 30 19:40:22 2001 f4V0eLT20786 Subject: Re: balance point/handle size Could it not be that on each rod we are seeking the optimum comfort forthatparticular rod/reel combination? Harry, Ted, try one of your favoriterod/reel combinations, noting hand position, then change to aheavier/lighter reel and see if you notice any change in hand position. M-D I always figured that the "migrating hand syndrome" must be a symptom ofsome rod- or casting-related problem. I've never figured out what problemthat might be, but I figured maybe it was an unconscious effort tolengthenthe rod, or maybe it was caused by an overweight reel. I don't know, butithappens to me with some rods, but not with others. Ted,My hand does the same thing. Got a phone number or email or websiteforAnglers Roost?? I'd like to give it a look. Harry Ted wrote: I find when I'm casting that my hand "migrates" toward the reel. Thishappens with bamboo and those other kind of rods. Anglers Roost FlyShop,Pointe Claire, Quebec, has recently patented a reel seat/cork grip thataccommodates this hand position and offers this as an option on severalrodmodels. from jojo@ipa.net Wed May 30 19:58:47 2001 f4V0wkT21217 Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quoted wasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are well taken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? M-D Harry,I forgot! What does John Zimny say about Epon.Who was it that said "It aint what you don't know that gets you introuble,it's what you know that aint so that gets you in trouble."Dave From: Harry Boyd MD,Been thinking about this conversation for a coupla days now. Sawwhereitstarted in another forum. There is no doubt that the fellow with whomyouarecorresponding knows more about glues and other sticky stuff than I everwill.No question, he is a renowned expert in the field. He and I had neighboring booths at a show in 2000. I think you werethere,MD??? You may remember the incident described in this post. He and Italked agreat deal about glues. No question, he understands rods, rod making,andglues. Better than almost anyone I know. Far better than me. I asked him what glue he would use for making bamboo rods. He neverhesitated to say that he would use a urea formaldehyde glue like Urac185.WhenI told him that I used Epon, he looked and acted incredulous. "No way!"hesaid, "That glue will never work on Bamboo rods. No way at all. Therodswillbe so limber there will be no way to cast them." About that time, Ihandedhimboth my 8'6" 9 weight, my 8' 5 weight, and my 7'6" 2 weight. All werestrungup. My remark, "Well, maybe it won't work in theory, but it works fineinreallife. Here are three examples. Go cast them and see for yourself...."Hedid. When he came back indoors, he got more specific. Seems the chiefingredient in the epoxy wrap finish he produces sells is none other thanEpon828! The hardener is Versamid 3140. He acts like he adds a fewingredientslike "eye of newt", but I'm not so sure. My new friend Mr. ROQ then grabbed the little 4 weight para that somany ofyou cast at last year's SRG. He bent one of the tips into a horse shoe.Thenthe other. This is a three piece rod, mind you, and he actually touchedthetiptop to the male ferrule. I just knew he was going to break them. Ifhehad,well, he would have owned a nice looking parabolic rod, or at least partsofone. Anyone else doing that to one of my rods would have heard a nicelittlesermon -- one I can't preach on Sundays!! The conversation went on with a string of questions. "What hardenerdo youuse? What's your drying regimen? Oh, so you heat set the glue, huh?Whattemperature? For how long?" To shorten this story just a little bit, I never did convince himthatonecan make a bamboo rod using Epon. He just couldn't get his mind aroundthe I think this proves something, but I'm not exactly sure what.Perhapsitproves that what seems to be true in the lab really ought to be proved inreallife before one is willing to stake his reputation on it. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Hi guys: The List has been too sedate for too long. I thought I'd post this andseeif we couldn't get some discussion going. The following is from anongoingconversation I had with someone who is more than a little knowledgeableabout bonding systems. En garde! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed May 30 20:18:51 2001 f4V1IoT21745 Wed, 30 May 2001 18:18:46 -0700 Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Martin-Darrell,When fitting ferrules, I think your friend is right on the money. As longas you have a good bamboo to nickel silver fit, most adhesives will do the job.The only thing I worry about is that the glue doesn't shrink as it dries. Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had a little moreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with 5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho.Personally, I'll stick with the Urethane Bond. I can find no drawbacks tousing it on ferrules. Most of the time when the glue fails, it's the makersfault. He (read "I") usually haven't done an adequate job of fitting the maleslide to the female barrel on the ferrule itself. And pulling like crazy to getthe ferrules apart results in either the male or female breaking loose fromthebamboo. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quoted wasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are well taken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Wed May 30 20:38:34 2001 f4V1cXT22222 Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? I think so, Harry. Considering there is little stress at the bond betweenferrule and cane, and if we have a good fit from cane to ferrule, thenalmost anything should hold it there. As you suggested, the pulling forcesexerted in order to extract the male from the female are a consideration.Any deficiency would greatly be magnified under these conditions. I recentlyhad a rod I dummied up, more or less, whereon I used a neoprene basedadhesive that is well suited for this application, actually. On thisparticular rod I suffered the infamous Harry Boyd Growing Ferrule syndrome.Upon attempting the extraction I noticed that the cane had moved ever soslightly from its original position inside the ferrule. Also, as my originalcorrespondent pointed out, Duro and Devcon epoxies are unsuitable forferrule applications, so I believe you are spot on with your opinion.Another consideration we have to make with adhesive choice is the differingcoefficients of expansion between our two materials. Haven't some on thislist suffered from shooting ferrules after going into sub-freezingtemperatures? This is where a brittle adhesive would really loose it's gripbecause it lacks sufficient modulus of elasticity. Then we also mustconsider cleanliness of our substrates. M-D Martin-Darrell,When fitting ferrules, I think your friend is right on the money. Aslongas you have a good bamboo to nickel silver fit, most adhesives will do thejob.The only thing I worry about is that the glue doesn't shrink as it dries.Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had a littlemoreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with 5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho.Personally, I'll stick with the Urethane Bond. I can find nodrawbacks tousing it on ferrules. Most of the time when the glue fails, it's themakersfault. He (read "I") usually haven't done an adequate job of fitting themaleslide to the female barrel on the ferrule itself. And pulling like crazyto getthe ferrules apart results in either the male or female breaking loose from thebamboo. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quoted wasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are well taken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Wed May 30 20:46:30 2001 f4V1kUT22477 0400 Subject: Canadian Cane Ted Knott and his band of Merry Men put together a great weekend atFergus,Ontario. The facility was well-chosen, the demonstrations wereinstructive, the food was good, and the rodtalk was inspirational. In fact, we were so inspired that we used the sixteen hour drive home tocreate another bamboo rodmakers song (delete now to avoid exposure).... Sittin' in the Shop All Day(sung to "Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay") I'm splittin' in the mornin' sun,I'll be planin' when the evening comes,Makin' the cane grow thin,Then I measure and I do it again, Ohhh, Sittin' in the shop all dayMakin' the cane shave away,Oh, sittin' in the shop all day,Planin' cane. We left our home in MercerHeaded for Canadian Cane.Now we got somthin' to live for'Cause the gathering has come round again. (We're not) Sittin' in the shop all dayMakin' the cane shave away,(We're not) Sittin' in the shop today,Planing cane. Sorry... it was a long drive!Anyway, guys, thanks for all the hard work. Kat and David from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed May 30 20:47:40 2001 f4V1ldT22592 Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Well, for gluing ferrules, I am sticking with Golfsmith's golf club epoxy. Anything that will take the beating and the weather those clubs give it should be OK. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 08:17 PM 5/30/01 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Martin-Darrell,When fitting ferrules, I think your friend is right on the money. As longas you have a good bamboo to nickel silver fit, most adhesives will do the job.The only thing I worry about is that the glue doesn't shrink as it dries. Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had a little moreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with 5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho.Personally, I'll stick with the Urethane Bond. I can find no drawbacks tousing it on ferrules. Most of the time when the glue fails, it's the makersfault. He (read "I") usually haven't done an adequate job of fitting the maleslide to the female barrel on the ferrule itself. And pulling like crazy to getthe ferrules apart results in either the male or female breaking loose from thebamboo. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quoted wasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are well taken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dnorl@qwest.net Wed May 30 20:52:08 2001 f4V1q7T22951 0000 (63.228.47.247) Subject: Re: drip/dip tubes If you really want to go low tech why not brush the finish ? I've seen sometruly great rods with brushed finish (some of them mine) ask Tom Smithwick!Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: drip/dip tubes I've decided to build a dip or drip system, trying to decide on details. Iwant to go extremely low tech, and spend the absolute minimum $ (I'mbroke,and any extra $ I get is spent on fishing trips). I'll pick up one ofthosetubes for flourescent lights. Beyond that, it seems to me that dip iseasier to make work right than drip. But can anyone suggest a manualmethodof dipping (i.e., no motors please). I was thinking that a simple pulleymounted to the ceiling, with a line going from rod over pulley to a spoolwith a crank (or even to an old fly reel) would keep things simple. Whatdoyou think, is dip easier than drip, or vice versa? from martinj@aa.net Wed May 30 21:05:51 2001 f4V25oT23384 Wed, 30 May 2001 19:05:45 -0700 Subject: RE: HOAX: Virus Alert There's like 6 people in the world who use a Mac....(TIC) Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: HOAX: Virus Alert Well, I hate to state the obvious, but all you people ought to go out an getyourselves a Macintosh! I haven't yet seen a virus come down the line thatwas built to get into my machine. I've been reading the virus scares onthis list for the last six months or so, and I can't stay quiet any longer.Long live the Macintosh! All in fun, of course... ;^) Jason Swan from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed May 30 21:25:13 2001 f4V2PCT23957 Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Disclaimer: I use the Golfsmith's epoxy, and have been impressed with itsadhesionto the slab I mix it on when I haven't been right after it to clean up. However,Irushed things, and just had a rod pull 3 of the 4 ferrules off while I wasfittingthem. Inspecting the parts, it was obvious that the epoxy stayed intact onthebamboo, but none was left on the inside of the ferrules - poor cleaning and noroughing of the ferrules prior to glueing them on. Lesson learned! (the hardway) Very clean, and roughened up good from now on. Shoulda known better in thefirstplace. mac Onis Cogburn wrote: Well, for gluing ferrules, I am sticking with Golfsmith's golf clubepoxy. Anything that will take the beating and the weather those clubsgive it should be OK. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from lblan@provide.net Wed May 30 21:48:07 2001 f4V2m6T24492 Subject: RE: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? I did take exception to one point in the original post in particular, whichstated that "Devcon" products are not suitable. I'm fairly certain that thehardware store variety is what he had in mind, but lets not forget that"Devcon" probably makes close to 100 different formulations of epoxy. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? I think so, Harry. Considering there is little stress at the bond betweenferrule and cane, and if we have a good fit from cane to ferrule, thenalmost anything should hold it there. As you suggested, the pulling forcesexerted in order to extract the male from the female are a consideration.Any deficiency would greatly be magnified under these conditions.I recentlyhad a rod I dummied up, more or less, whereon I used a neoprene basedadhesive that is well suited for this application, actually. On thisparticular rod I suffered the infamous Harry Boyd Growing Ferrulesyndrome.Upon attempting the extraction I noticed that the cane had moved ever soslightly from its original position inside the ferrule. Also, asmy originalcorrespondent pointed out, Duro and Devcon epoxies are unsuitable forferrule applications, so I believe you are spot on with your opinion.Another consideration we have to make with adhesive choice is thedifferingcoefficients of expansion between our two materials. Haven't some on thislist suffered from shooting ferrules after going into sub-freezingtemperatures? This is where a brittle adhesive would really looseit's gripbecause it lacks sufficient modulus of elasticity. Then we also mustconsider cleanliness of our substrates. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Martin-Darrell,When fitting ferrules, I think your friend is right on themoney. Aslongas you have a good bamboo to nickel silver fit, most adhesiveswill do thejob.The only thing I worry about is that the glue doesn't shrink asit dries.Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had a littlemoreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with 5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho.Personally, I'll stick with the Urethane Bond. I can find nodrawbacks tousing it on ferrules. Most of the time when the glue fails, it's themakersfault. He (read "I") usually haven't done an adequate job offitting themaleslide to the female barrel on the ferrule itself. And pullinglike crazyto getthe ferrules apart results in either the male or female breaking loose from thebamboo. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quoted wasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are welltaken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Dennishigham@cs.com Wed May 30 21:50:38 2001 f4V2obT24786 Subject: Re: PMQ ferrule Eric-It's a simple scarf joint usually held together w/electrical tape. I haven't tried it myself but Tom Smithwick has and it's pretty common inFrance/Europe. Dennis Higham from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed May 30 22:19:53 2001 f4V3JpT25460 Subject: Re: PMQ ferrule The scarf section needs to have thin hardwood bearing surfaces. Make thescarfs about 1:20 then glue hardwood to the bamboo surfaces that willmeet.After the glue has cured just plane the hardwood in the same scarfing jigyou used to make the scarfs on the bamboo.To join the sections just use thread and basically bind the sectionstogether as you would when binding guides to the blank. If you're fishing It actually isn't a bad method. Tony At 10:50 PM 5/30/01 -0400, Dennishigham@cs.com wrote:Eric-It's a simple scarf joint usually held together w/electrical tape. I haven't tried it myself but Tom Smithwick has and it's pretty common inFrance/Europe. Dennis Higham /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you love a thing let it go,If it returns it's yours,If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it. /**************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Wed May 30 22:32:18 2001 f4V3WHT25870 Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Larry, You are correct. The original posting was referring exclusively to thehardware store/Wal-Mart variety. M-D I did take exception to one point in the original post in particular,whichstated that "Devcon" products are not suitable. I'm fairly certain thatthehardware store variety is what he had in mind, but lets not forget that"Devcon" probably makes close to 100 different formulations of epoxy. Larry Blan From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu [Big Snip] . . . Also, as my original correspondent pointed out, Duro andDevcon epoxies are unsuitable forferrule applications, so I believe you are spot on with your opinion. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Martin-Darrell,When fitting ferrules, I think your friend is right on themoney. Aslongas you have a good bamboo to nickel silver fit, most adhesiveswill do thejob.The only thing I worry about is that the glue doesn't shrink asit dries.Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had alittlemoreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with 5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho. from jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu May 31 06:17:56 2001 f4VBHtT02980 mail.cyberport.com "and Collecting" Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? All, I've used a lot of Devcon industrial mixes in motor setting and milwrightwork. Devcon will withstand a lot of pressure, but it will not takevibration or flexing - breaks apart after awhile and has to be replaced. Anypounding at all will cause troubles, at least that's been my experience.We've gone to the new epoxy mixes from Hiltie and others, some of whichsetsup in under a minute. I've seen tension tests on 1 1/2" anchor bolts put inwith epoxy that brings out large hunks of 4,000 psi concrete rather that theexpoxy giving. My vote goes with the epoxies - good adhesion and goodflexure. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? I did take exception to one point in the original post in particular,whichstated that "Devcon" products are not suitable. I'm fairly certain thatthehardware store variety is what he had in mind, but lets not forget that"Devcon" probably makes close to 100 different formulations of epoxy. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? I think so, Harry. Considering there is little stress at the bondbetweenferrule and cane, and if we have a good fit from cane to ferrule, thenalmost anything should hold it there. As you suggested, the pullingforcesexerted in order to extract the male from the female are aconsideration.Any deficiency would greatly be magnified under these conditions.I recentlyhad a rod I dummied up, more or less, whereon I used a neoprene basedadhesive that is well suited for this application, actually. On thisparticular rod I suffered the infamous Harry Boyd Growing Ferrulesyndrome.Upon attempting the extraction I noticed that the cane had moved eversoslightly from its original position inside the ferrule. Also, asmy originalcorrespondent pointed out, Duro and Devcon epoxies are unsuitable forferrule applications, so I believe you are spot on with your opinion.Another consideration we have to make with adhesive choice is thedifferingcoefficients of expansion between our two materials. Haven't some onthislist suffered from shooting ferrules after going into sub-freezingtemperatures? This is where a brittle adhesive would really looseit's gripbecause it lacks sufficient modulus of elasticity. Then we also mustconsider cleanliness of our substrates. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Martin-Darrell,When fitting ferrules, I think your friend is right on themoney. Aslongas you have a good bamboo to nickel silver fit, most adhesiveswill do thejob.The only thing I worry about is that the glue doesn't shrink asit dries.Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had alittlemoreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with 5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho.Personally, I'll stick with the Urethane Bond. I can find nodrawbacks tousing it on ferrules. Most of the time when the glue fails, it's themakersfault. He (read "I") usually haven't done an adequate job offitting themaleslide to the female barrel on the ferrule itself. And pullinglike crazyto getthe ferrules apart results in either the male or female breaking loose from thebamboo. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quotedwasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are welltaken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu May 31 06:50:54 2001 f4VBosT03735 Subject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! I'm not really sure what the file is. I would think that it issomething related to the operating system. The link for the hoax information is:http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99084& jmpio@nhbm.com wrote: Todd, do you have any more info on this hoax. The file referred to in Bob'se- mail does indeed exist. Do you know what it is? -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 2:16 PM Cc: Rod Makers List ServeSubject: Re: Virus Warning-Alert! I had this come through the office here at work yesterday. It is ahoax. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from jojo@ipa.net Thu May 31 08:45:55 2001 f4VDjsT06407 Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Jim, I use epoxies for precisely the reasons you suggest. I, too, have used them due to 1. Incorrect epoxy for the task; and, 2. failure to properly cleanthe joint prior to application (there are some epoxies that will work rightover the top of oil). However, it was suggested in the original posting thatalmost anything would hold a ferrule, and perhaps it is overkill to use theepoxy I employ, but that doesn't matter to me. I don't want a ferrule comingloose now, or 20 yrs. from now. The trick is to use an epoxy that indeeddoes posses good flexural properties, and many of them don't. Remembertheoriginal assertion that "raw Epon 828 with any hardening system is a verypoor bonding agent." Again, we were discussing ferrule adhesion but as Harrypointed out, the man also believes this applies to bamboo rods unilaterally.There are better epoxy combinations to use than 828/3140 but hundreds ofrods will attest to the fact that this system does, indeed, work; and, worksquite well.In the vein of overkill, what about you guys who use hot melt cements, andFer-L-Tite? What experiences might you relate? M-D All, I've used a lot of Devcon industrial mixes in motor setting and milwrightwork. Devcon will withstand a lot of pressure, but it will not takevibration or flexing - breaks apart after awhile and has to be replaced.Anypounding at all will cause troubles, at least that's been my experience.We've gone to the new epoxy mixes from Hiltie and others, some of whichsetsup in under a minute. I've seen tension tests on 1 1/2" anchor bolts putinwith epoxy that brings out large hunks of 4,000 psi concrete rather thattheexpoxy giving. My vote goes with the epoxies - good adhesion and goodflexure. Jim From: Larry Blan I did take exception to one point in the original post in particular,whichstated that "Devcon" products are not suitable. I'm fairly certain thatthehardware store variety is what he had in mind, but lets not forget that"Devcon" probably makes close to 100 different formulations of epoxy. Larry Blan From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DeLancier [Big Snip] Also, asmy originalcorrespondent pointed out, Duro and Devcon epoxies are unsuitable forferrule applications, so I believe you are spot on with your opinion. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Martin-Darrell,[Big Snip] Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had alittlemoreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quotedwasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are welltaken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? from EESweet@aol.com Thu May 31 10:45:25 2001 f4VFjOT10613 May 2001 11:45:03 -0400 Subject: Re: PMQ ferrule Thanks for the answers guys. I don't know which way I'll end up doing it yet,but it seems I have several options (ferruled, scarfed, bamboo ferrule, etc) I'll let you all know which I go with and how it works out. Thanks again, Eric from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu May 31 12:36:34 2001 f4VHaXT16323 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Hi Tony, I posted the description, but I took the idea from Walter Brunner, anAustrian rodmaker. I also have started flattening nodes this way afterTony Young suggested using the aluminium angle with a groove cut intoit. It seems easier to press the nodes and, as Bob Nunley remarked, thepossibility of having very small nodal areas is enticing. Stuart Tony Spezio schrieb: I guess I did not save the post about two weeksago, so I don't know who to thank for this.A post last week or two mentioned a german rodmaker that flattens his nodes without filing themfirst. He used a plate??? with a slot in it orsomething to that effect.I just finished flattening 18 strips and that isthe way to go. It may not be traditional but thenodes came out beautiful. I took a length of 1/2"X 1/8" aluminum strap, (hardware store stuff) thelength of my vise jaws, filed a narrow "V" grooveacross the middle to accommodate the node ridgeand attached it to one vise jaw with double sidedtape.I soak my strips for three days and it don't takemuch heat to soften the nodes up. After the nodeswere flattened there was only the little narrowridge to be filed off. A couple of strokes tookcare of that. The enamel is still up to that ridgeline.All I can see is a fine line where the ridge was.On the finished rod there will be just a narrowline where the node was or none at all..Will report on how it looks when I finish up theblank. I am real satisfied with the results. Itreally seemed easier to flatten the nodes thisway.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from flytyr@southshore.com Thu May 31 12:55:33 2001 f4VHtWT17975 f4VHwWU08586;Thu, 31 May 2001 12:58:33 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Stuart,Thanks to you for the posting.I did not see the other posts by Tony or Bob.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Stuart Moultrie wrote: Hi Tony, I posted the description, but I took the idea from Walter Brunner, anAustrian rodmaker. I also have started flattening nodes this way afterTony Young suggested using the aluminium angle with a groove cut intoit. It seems easier to press the nodes and, as Bob Nunley remarked, thepossibility of having very small nodal areas is enticing. Stuart Tony Spezio schrieb: I guess I did not save the post about two weeksago, so I don't know who to thank for this.A post last week or two mentioned a german rodmaker that flattens his nodes without filing themfirst. He used a plate??? with a slot in it orsomething to that effect.I just finished flattening 18 strips and that isthe way to go. It may not be traditional but thenodes came out beautiful. I took a length of 1/2"X 1/8" aluminum strap, (hardware store stuff) thelength of my vise jaws, filed a narrow "V" grooveacross the middle to accommodate the node ridgeand attached it to one vise jaw with double sidedtape.I soak my strips for three days and it don't takemuch heat to soften the nodes up. After the nodeswere flattened there was only the little narrowridge to be filed off. A couple of strokes tookcare of that. The enamel is still up to that ridgeline.All I can see is a fine line where the ridge was.On the finished rod there will be just a narrowline where the node was or none at all..Will report on how it looks when I finish up theblank. I am real satisfied with the results. Itreally seemed easier to flatten the nodes thisway.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu May 31 13:26:55 2001 f4VIQsT19143 2001 11:26:53 PDT Subject: drowned trico does anyone know where on the internet i might find apicture or instructions for tying lafontaine's, justinbakers's drowned trico pattern? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 31 14:12:11 2001 f4VJCAT20555 Subject: 7'6" Redwing? --part1_26.16353335.2847f17e_boundary All, I just acquired an interesting rod. It's what I believe is an early Montague Redwing and is far from being a tomato stake. Quite a beauty with the grouped intermediates and banded flaming done to the rod shaft. The only label on the rod itself is a gold background "Montague." Darrell Lee tells me that this is a very early Montague label. The AL rod tube is has a Montague label marked "Montague Redwing." However, the rod has rolled welt ferrules which Sinclair doesn't list as being correct for a Redwing of any era. They're tiny high quality drawn NS ferrules, but still they're not hand-welted. The tips are Leonard like in cross-section, and not having mic'd them, I'd say that they are about 50 thou's at the tiptops. The tiptops are the smallest agate ring tops that I've ever seen too. The reelseat is unlike any that I've seen on a Montague also. It's a sliding band D/L type with a soldered lower foot pocket and there's a "dimpled" decorative band below the soldered pocket. Darrell said that it reminds him of a Thomas & Edwards or an Issac Walton reelseat. Too bad it suffers from the dreaded "I own a pair of pliers, now what can I screw up with them" syndrome. It's also the only 3 piece 7' 6" Montague that I've ever owned (or seen) - except for a 2nd 7'6" much later era Redwing that was on eBay last year. Anyone own an example of a Montague rod like this? Or maybe can refer meto a reference picture of a Montague like this? Please email me off list if you can help me out. Don Burns Canerods@aol.com --part1_26.16353335.2847f17e_boundary All, I just acquired an interesting rod. It's what I believe is an early Montague Redwing and is far from being a tomato stake. Quite a beauty with the grouped intermediates andbanded flaming done to the rod shaft. The only label on the rod itself is a gold background "Montague." DarrellLee tells me that this is a very early Montague label. The AL rod tube is hasa Montague label marked "Montague Redwing." However, the rod has rolled welt ferrules which Sinclair doesn't list as being correct for a Redwing of any era. They're tiny high quality drawnNS ferrules, but still they're not hand-welted. The tips are Leonard like in cross-section, and not having mic'd them, I'd say that they are about 50 thou's at the tiptops. The tiptops are the smallest agate ring tops that I've ever seen too. The reelseat is unlike any that I've seen on a Montague also. It's a sliding band D/L type with a soldered lower foot pocket and there's a "dimpled" decorative band below the soldered pocket. Darrell said that it remindshim of a Thomas & Edwards or an Issac Walton reelseat. Too bad itsuffers from the dreaded "I own a pair of pliers, now what can I screw up with them" syndrome. It's also the only 3 piece 7' 6" Montague that I've ever owned (or seen) - except for a 2nd 7'6" much later era Redwing that was on eBay lastyear. Anyone own an example of a Montague rod like this? Or maybe can referme to a reference picture of a Montague like this? Please email me off list ifyou can help me out. Don Burns Canerods@aol.com --part1_26.16353335.2847f17e_boundary-- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu May 31 14:20:14 2001 f4VJKDT20990 +0100 Subject: Classic Rods If any of you rich and wealthy out there have some spare cash about Iwould suggest you take a keen look at the vintage rods section on e- baytoday.There are some lovely pictures of a Garrison , a Payne and a Dickinsonrod........If I can sell my wifes car while she and the kids are away Imay even try a bid myself!........Paul from Kengorific@aol.com Thu May 31 14:39:43 2001 f4VJdgT21731 Subject: rod balance I am just about to mount the handle and reel seat on my first cane rod (6' 2pc 4wt)I have followed the recent threads on handle length and balance points and have some questions for the more experienced rodmakers... I have the opportunity to fine tune the balance of the rod by adding weight to the reel seat. Is there a rule of thumb for where the rod should balance? I have not cast this rod yet and I am not sure if it will be a 4wt or something else. Would it make sense to allow some extra room (for weights) at the butt end of the rod and not mount the end cap until later? from bob@downandacross.com Thu May 31 15:21:05 2001 f4VKL4T23158 Subject: Re: Classic Rods --=====================_644218==_.ALT Oh darn it Paul, I was going to bid on all three of those. Now everyone will want to buy them. :'OJust kidding,BobP.S. I can at least copy the pictures, can't I? At 08:18 PM 5/31/2001 +0100, paul.blakley wrote:If any of you rich and wealthy out there have some spare cash about Iwould suggest you take a keen look at the vintage rods section on e-baytoday.There are some lovely pictures of a Garrison , a Payne and a Dickinsonrod........If I can sell my wifes car while she and the kids are away Imay even try a bid myself!........Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_644218==_.ALT Oh darn it Paul, I was going to bid on all three of those. Now everyonewill want to buy them. :'OJust kidding,BobP.S. I can at least copy the pictures, can't I? At 08:18 PM 5/31/2001 +0100, paul.blakley wrote:If any of you rich and wealthy out would suggest you take a keen look at the vintage rods section one- baytoday.There are some lovely pictures of a Garrison , a Payne and aDickinsonrod........If I can sell my wifes car while she and the kids are awayImay even try a bid myself!........Paul Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_644218==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Thu May 31 15:25:38 2001 f4VKPWT23504 Subject: Re: rod balance --=====================_911414==_.ALT In the Garrison video (excellent BTW, thanks Darrell), you can see Garrison and friend on stream. When asked about this very thing, Garrison puts his index and middle fingers about 1-2 inches in front of the grip and the two marvel at how the rod balances so perfectly. I would size the grip and reel seat to the rod before I added any weight. That seems to be unnecessary. IMHO. (Gives you the excuse to buy a nice newer reel. The Hardy Bougle Mark IV in 3.25 " size is a nice heavier reel for 4-5 weight cane rods)Regards,Bob At 03:39 PM 5/31/2001 -0400, Kengorific@aol.com wrote:I am just about to mount the handle and reel seat on my first cane rod (6'2pc 4wt)I have followed the recent threads on handle length and balance points andhave some questions for the more experienced rodmakers... I have the opportunity to fine tune the balance of the rod by adding weightto the reel seat. Is there a rule of thumb for where the rod should balance?I have not cast this rod yet and I am not sure if it will be a 4wt orsomething else. Would it make sense to allow some extra room (forweights)at the butt end of the rod and not mount the end cap until later? Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_911414==_.ALT Garrison and friend on stream. When asked about this very thing, Garrisonputs his index and middle fingers about 1-2 inches in front of the gripand the two marvel at how the rod balances so perfectly. I would size thegrip and reel seat to the rod before I added any weight. That seems to beunnecessary. IMHO. (Gives you the excuse to buy a nice newer reel. TheHardy Bougle Mark IV in 3.25 " size is a nice heavier reel for 4- 5weight cane rods)Regards,BobAt 03:39 PM 5/31/2001 -0400, Kengorific@aol.com wrote:I am just about to mount the handleand reel seat on my first cane rod (6' 2pc 4wt)I have followed the recent threads on handle length and balance pointsand have some questions for the more experienced rodmakers...I have the opportunity to fine tune the balance of the rod by addingweight balance? or weights) at the butt end of the rod and not mount the end cap untillater? Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboo rods, silk lines and leaders,sherline lathes, mills, and accessories, and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellular bmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_911414==_.ALT-- from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu May 31 15:31:44 2001 f4VKVhT23927 sec.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 31 May 2001 13:31:17 -0700 Subject: RE: rod balance Having done extensive experimentation on balance points on many rods - checkthe archives from around summer last year - the balance point does affectthe perceived "lightness" of a rod. If the balace point is somewhere in thefront part of the cork the rod feels lighter than if it is somewhere out infront of the grip. Usually a heavier reel can balance the rod adequately. Ialso tried to see if going way back - balancing around the little finger -would help, but that is too far back. The rod gets a really wierd feelingthen. Permanent installation of weight in the reel seat might be okay if youwere going to use the same reel all the time. Downlocking reel seats help,putting the weight as far back as possible. I would make the rod normallyand find a reel that balances it properly, especially if it is a 6 footer(won't be hard to find a reel to balance it).Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:39 PM Subject: rod balance I am just about to mount the handle and reel seat on my first cane rod (6' 2pc 4wt)I have followed the recent threads on handle length and balance points and have some questions for the more experienced rodmakers... I have the opportunity to fine tune the balance of the rod by addingweight to the reel seat. Is there a rule of thumb for where the rod shouldbalance? I have not cast this rod yet and I am not sure if it will be a 4wt or something else. Would it make sense to allow some extra room (forweights) at the butt end of the rod and not mount the end cap until later? from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 31 15:50:48 2001 f4VKolT24792 Thu, 31 May 2001 17:49:56 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Flattening nodes I'm not sure I'm following this correctly but are you saying that you areonlypressing the enamel side of the strip and leaving the pith side intact?? Areyoustill pressing the sides as well??? I don't see how this would effectivelycompressthe fray of fibres at the node?I would love to see a picture of this..... Anyone?? Tony Spezio wrote: I guess I did not save the post about two weeksago, so I don't know who to thank for this.A post last week or two mentioned a german rodmaker that flattens his nodes without filing themfirst. He used a plate??? with a slot in it orsomething to that effect.I just finished flattening 18 strips and that isthe way to go. It may not be traditional but thenodes came out beautiful. I took a length of 1/2"X 1/8" aluminum strap, (hardware store stuff) thelength of my vise jaws, filed a narrow "V" grooveacross the middle to accommodate the node ridgeand attached it to one vise jaw with double sidedtape.I soak my strips for three days and it don't takemuch heat to soften the nodes up. After the nodeswere flattened there was only the little narrowridge to be filed off. A couple of strokes tookcare of that. The enamel is still up to that ridgeline.All I can see is a fine line where the ridge was.On the finished rod there will be just a narrowline where the node was or none at all..Will report on how it looks when I finish up theblank. I am real satisfied with the results. Itreally seemed easier to flatten the nodes thisway.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from cdn@ticon.net Thu May 31 16:24:27 2001 f4VLORT26228 0000 Subject: soft setting/moisture absorption Hi list;I made my tip section about 3 months ago from strips that were temperedat 375 deg. for 8 min. and the tip was quite snappy when done. I'ts and was bummed to find that it had lost some of it's snappyness.So I made a drying chamber with a 100 watt light bulb, a light dimmer anda 5' length of 6" vent pipe. I then weighed the tip section on a triplebeam scale and got a weight of 18.7 grams. put the tip in the dryingchamber for 72 hours and lost .5 grams of weight for approximately 2.5%weight loss. Now when I hold the tip section vertically and bend it through90 degrees of arc and hold it for ten seconds or so and then lay the sectionon the bench I measure .625" from the bench to the tip top. In othedwords Ive got 5/8 inch of set. How much set is normal in a rod? This is the firstrod Ive made/owned and I have no idea whats normal for these things.Thanks Ned from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 31 16:42:09 2001 f4VLg8T26995 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: soft setting/moisture absorption Ned,If I'm understanding you right, the section is absolutely straightbefore you bend and hold it at 90 degrees for 10 seconds? Then you canmeasure a 0.625" set?If this is the case, go back to the drying cabinet with it. The sectionshould make a complete recovery to straight and not hold any set when held There are times I battle a trout or bass for much longer than thatwithout any effect on the straightness of the rod, so if it's doing thisbefore you wrap and varnish, then I figure you probably have a lot moremoisture in it than you think you do.I know 72 hours seems like a long time in the drying cabinet, but keepin mind that you said you coated it 3 months ago with a tung oil/poly blend.This will drastically slow down moisture transfer, so 72 hours may not haveremoved enough of the moisture from the rod. If the rod were bare and notcoated with anything, that may do the trick, but with the poly in there,you've already established a bit of a moisture barrier, so it is probablygoing to take a lot longer than normal to get all the moisture out of thesection.Just for future reference, you might considere getting a piece of 4"pvc, putting dessicant in it, and fitting it with a cap on one end and ascrew top on the other. Store your rod sections in that until you are readyto finish them out. I do this, even if I'm only going to lay a sectionaside for the night and pick it up again the next morning. May be overkillon my part, but I don't have any set problems, either during or after themaking of a rod. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: soft setting/moisture absorption Hi list;I made my tip section about 3 months ago from strips that were temperedat 375 deg. for 8 min. and the tip was quite snappy when done. I'ts and was bummed to find that it had lost some of it's snappyness.SoI made a drying chamber with a 100 watt light bulb, a light dimmer anda 5' length of 6" vent pipe. I then weighed the tip section on a triplebeam scale and got a weight of 18.7 grams. put the tip in the dryingchamber for 72 hours and lost .5 grams of weight for approximately 2.5%weight loss. Now when I hold the tip section vertically and bend itthrough90 degrees of arc and hold it for ten seconds or so and then lay thesectionon the bench I measure .625" from the bench to the tip top. In othedwordsIve got 5/8 inch of set. How much set is normal in a rod? This is thefirstrod Ive made/owned and I have no idea whats normal for these things.ThanksNed from bob@downandacross.com Thu May 31 16:42:16 2001 f4VLgFT27007 Subject: Re: soft setting/moisture absorption Ned:What glue did you use? Sounds like you might want to put it back in the cabinet or into the heat treating oven for a little curing.Bob At 03:26 PM 5/31/2001 -0500, you wrote: Hi list;I made my tip section about 3 months ago from strips that were temperedat 375 deg. for 8 min. and the tip was quite snappy when done. I'ts and was bummed to find that it had lost some of it's snappyness.SoI made a drying chamber with a 100 watt light bulb, a light dimmer anda 5' length of 6" vent pipe. I then weighed the tip section on a triplebeam scale and got a weight of 18.7 grams. put the tip in the dryingchamber for 72 hours and lost .5 grams of weight for approximately 2.5%weight loss. Now when I hold the tip section vertically and bend it through90 degrees of arc and hold it for ten seconds or so and then lay the sectionon the bench I measure .625" from the bench to the tip top. In othedwordsIve got 5/8 inch of set. How much set is normal in a rod? This is the firstrod Ive made/owned and I have no idea whats normal for these things.ThanksNed from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 31 17:15:08 2001 f4VMF7T28195 Thu, 31 May 2001 19:14:22 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: OK, They're Pinned - Now What? Mark,I tried several types of epoxy, and Fer L Tite (had problems with it so Istopped using it) and finally, the same PU glue I have tried on my rods seemsto haveworked the best, let you know in 20 years or so ;^)Makes changing a botched ferrule next to impossible though. Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Jim, I use epoxies for precisely the reasons you suggest. I, too, have used them due to 1. Incorrect epoxy for the task; and, 2. failure to properly cleanthe joint prior to application (there are some epoxies that will work rightover the top of oil). However, it was suggested in the original posting thatalmost anything would hold a ferrule, and perhaps it is overkill to use theepoxy I employ, but that doesn't matter to me. I don't want a ferrulecomingloose now, or 20 yrs. from now. The trick is to use an epoxy that indeeddoes posses good flexural properties, and many of them don't. Remembertheoriginal assertion that "raw Epon 828 with any hardening system is a verypoor bonding agent." Again, we were discussing ferrule adhesion but asHarrypointed out, the man also believes this applies to bamboo rods unilaterally.There are better epoxy combinations to use than 828/3140 but hundredsofrods will attest to the fact that this system does, indeed, work; and,worksquite well.In the vein of overkill, what about you guys who use hot melt cements, andFer-L-Tite? What experiences might you relate? M-D From: "Jim & Sallyann Freeman" All, I've used a lot of Devcon industrial mixes in motor setting and milwrightwork. Devcon will withstand a lot of pressure, but it will not takevibration or flexing - breaks apart after awhile and has to be replaced.Anypounding at all will cause troubles, at least that's been my experience.We've gone to the new epoxy mixes from Hiltie and others, some of whichsetsup in under a minute. I've seen tension tests on 1 1/2" anchor bolts putinwith epoxy that brings out large hunks of 4,000 psi concrete rather thattheexpoxy giving. My vote goes with the epoxies - good adhesion and goodflexure. Jim From: Larry Blan I did take exception to one point in the original post in particular,whichstated that "Devcon" products are not suitable. I'm fairly certain thatthehardware store variety is what he had in mind, but lets not forget that"Devcon" probably makes close to 100 different formulations of epoxy. Larry Blan From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DeLancier [Big Snip] Also, asmy originalcorrespondent pointed out, Duro and Devcon epoxies are unsuitableforferrule applications, so I believe you are spot on with your opinion. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Martin-Darrell,[Big Snip] Theonly failures I've had were on my early rods which probably had alittlemoreslop than I would let out of the shop now. And they were glued with5minutesepoxy, which isn't the best choice, imho. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider guys: The conversation from which I quotedwasrelating to ferrule adhesion, though your points are welltaken, Harry.Would any of you engineers care to take a stab at some of this? from horsesho@ptd.net Thu May 31 18:06:18 2001 f4VN6HT29401 0000 Subject: Re: 7'6" Redwing? --------------90CE282A8F2CC4AC8D3E80A4 'Hi, I had a 7' 3pc Montague with the same lable(I think). A rectangulargold lable with MONTAGUE in block letters. The tips were the finestdimentioned I have ever seen. The rod was marked Steadman in white ink.Full intermediates, NS cap and ring with a cherry spacer. Montague didmake some very nice rods. Marty Canerods@aol.com wrote: All, I just acquired an interesting rod. It's what I believe is an early Montague Redwing and is far from beingatomato stake. Quite a beauty with the grouped intermediates and banded flaming done to the rod shaft. The only label on the rod itself is a gold background "Montague."Darrell Leetells me that this is a very early Montague label. The AL rod tube ishas aMontague label marked "Montague Redwing." However, the rod has rolled welt ferrules which Sinclair doesn't listasbeing correct for a Redwing of any era. They're tiny high qualitydrawn NSferrules, but still they're not hand-welted. The tips are Leonard like in cross-section, and not having mic'd them,I'dsay that they are about 50 thou's at the tiptops. The tiptops are thesmallest agate ring tops that I've ever seen too. The reelseat is unlike any that I've seen on a Montague also. It's aslidingband D/L type with a soldered lower foot pocket and there's a"dimpled"decorative band below the soldered pocket. Darrell said that itreminds himof a Thomas & Edwards or an Issac Walton reelseat. Too bad it suffersfromthe dreaded "I own a pair of pliers, now what can I screw up withthem"syndrome. It's also the only 3 piece 7' 6" Montague that I've ever owned (orseen) - except for a 2nd 7'6" much later era Redwing that was on eBay lastyear. Anyone own an example of a Montague rod like this? Or maybe can referme to areference picture of a Montague like this? Please email me off list ifyoucan help me out. Don Burns Canerods@aol.com --------------90CE282A8F2CC4AC8D3E80A4 'Hi, I had a 7' 3pc Montague with the same lable(I think). A rectangulargold lable with MONTAGUE in block letters. The tips were the finestdimentionedI have ever seen. The rod was marked Steadman in white ink. Fullintermediates,NS cap and ring with a cherry spacer. Montague did make some very nicerods. MartyCanerods@aol.com wrote:All,I just acquired an interestingrod.It's what I believe is anearly Montague Redwing and is far from being atomato stake. Quite abeautywith the grouped intermediates and bandedflaming done to the rodshaft.The only label on the roditself is a gold background "Montague." Darrell Leetells me that this is avery early Montague label. The AL rod tube is has aMontague label marked"MontagueRedwing."However, the rod has rolledwelt ferrules which Sinclair doesn't list asbeing correct for a Redwingof any era. They're tiny high quality drawn NSferrules, but still they'renot hand-welted.The tips are Leonard likein cross-section, and not having mic'd them, I'dsay that they are about50 thou's at the tiptops. The tiptops are thesmallest agate ring topsthat I've ever seen too.The reelseat is unlike anythat I've seen on a Montague also. It's a slidingband D/L type with asolderedlower foot pocket and there's a "dimpled"decorative band below thesoldered pocket. Darrell said that it reminds himof a Thomas & Edwardsor an Issac Walton reelseat. Too bad it suffers fromthe dreaded "I own a pairof pliers, now what can I screw up with them"syndrome.It's also the only 3 piece7' 6" Montague that I've ever owned (or seen) -except for a 2nd 7'6" muchlater era Redwing that was on eBay last year.Anyone own an example ofa Montague rod like this? Or maybe can refer me to areference picture of aMontaguelike this? Please email me off list if youcan help meout.Don BurnsCanerods@aol.com --------------90CE282A8F2CC4AC8D3E80A4-- from horsesho@ptd.net Thu May 31 18:10:37 2001 f4VNAbT29666 0000 0000 Subject: Re: rod balance Little rods look best with the smallest grip and seat you can manage. Mine(grips) are from 4" to 5". The old saying " Little rod little handle, big rodall handle" Actually I think the saying is about something else not suitablehere. Marty Kengorific@aol.com wrote: I am just about to mount the handle and reel seat on my first cane rod (6'2pc 4wt)I have followed the recent threads on handle length and balance points andhave some questions for the more experienced rodmakers... I have the opportunity to fine tune the balance of the rod by adding weightto the reel seat. Is there a rule of thumb for where the rod shouldbalance?I have not cast this rod yet and I am not sure if it will be a 4wt orsomething else. Would it make sense to allow some extra room (forweights)at the butt end of the rod and not mount the end cap until later? from flytyr@southshore.com Thu May 31 18:35:36 2001 f4VNZaT00207 f4VNcam17633 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Shawn,The node is pressed in the normal way. Instead of filing the ridge first, putthe Ridgein the groove and then crank the vise down. Will send you a shot of this alittle laterthis evening. Right now my oven is up to 375* and I need to get some stripsheattreated.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Shawn Pineo wrote: I'm not sure I'm following this correctly but are you saying that you areonlypressing the enamel side of the strip and leaving the pith side intact?? Areyoustill pressing the sides as well??? I don't see how this would effectivelycompressthe fray of fibres at the node?I would love to see a picture of this..... Anyone?? Tony Spezio wrote: I guess I did not save the post about two weeksago, so I don't know who to thank for this.A post last week or two mentioned a german rodmaker that flattens his nodes without filing themfirst. He used a plate??? with a slot in it orsomething to that effect.I just finished flattening 18 strips and that isthe way to go. It may not be traditional but thenodes came out beautiful. I took a length of 1/2"X 1/8" aluminum strap, (hardware store stuff) thelength of my vise jaws, filed a narrow "V" grooveacross the middle to accommodate the node ridgeand attached it to one vise jaw with double sidedtape.I soak my strips for three days and it don't takemuch heat to soften the nodes up. After the nodeswere flattened there was only the little narrowridge to be filed off. A couple of strokes tookcare of that. The enamel is still up to that ridgeline.All I can see is a fine line where the ridge was.On the finished rod there will be just a narrowline where the node was or none at all..Will report on how it looks when I finish up theblank. I am real satisfied with the results. Itreally seemed easier to flatten the nodes thisway.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 31 19:33:44 2001 f510XhT01199 Subject: Re: 7'6" Redwing? --part1_4a.1681c56d.28483ce2_boundary In a message dated 5/31/01 2:04:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, submission@vfish.net writes: Look at it closely, it could have a round welt... not a rolled welt... I'd be very surprised if it really had a rolled welt. Varney and Chubb knew how to make quality ferrules as well as the cheap ones... Can you scan a couple pics on that rod and send to me? Darrell I'll take some JPG's and post on my AOL website - if I can remember how. Don --part1_4a.1681c56d.28483ce2_boundary In a message dated5/31/01 2:04:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, submission@vfish.net writes: Look at it closely, it could have a round welt... not arolled welt... I'd knew how to make quality ferrules as well as the cheap ones... Can you scan a couple pics on that rod and send tome? Darrell I'll take some JPG's and post on my AOL website - if I can remember Don --part1_4a.1681c56d.28483ce2_boundary-- from Canerods@aol.com Thu May 31 19:47:19 2001 f510lIT01542 Subject: Re: 7'6" Redwing? --part1_11.15215c65.28483fec_boundary Darrell, I use a 10X loupe and the welts are rolled, not round. Don Burns --part1_11.15215c65.28483fec_boundary Darrell, I use a 10X loupe and the welts are rolled, not round. Don Burns --part1_11.15215c65.28483fec_boundary-- from thogan@rochester.rr.com Thu May 31 19:56:20 2001 f510uJT01841 f510sgW19224 Subject: bone fish with bamboo This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Has anyone had any experience bone fishing with bamboo?Any tapers one might suggest for such an activity would be most =appreciated. ThanksTaylor Has anyone had any experience bone = bamboo?Any tapers one might suggest for such= would be most appreciated. ThanksTaylor from caneman@clnk.com Thu May 31 20:04:17 2001 f5114GT02098 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 31 May 2001 19:32:19 -0500 Subject: Fw: bone fish with bamboo Taylor,Yep, I've boned with boo, and it's a trip. I used an 8' 6wt (my taper)and it holds up just fine. Let me know if you want it. Got a client insouth FL that goes after Reds, Snook and Tarpon with cane. A little bitbigger rod for those, however. Bob ----- Original Message -----From: taylor hogan Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 7:55 PMSubject: bone fish with bamboo Has anyone had any experience bone fishing with bamboo?Any tapers one might suggest for such an activity would be mostappreciated. ThanksTaylor from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu May 31 22:33:13 2001 f513XCT04235 Subject: Re: bone fish with bamboo I've considered using the Paul Young boat rod model in the hexrod archive. It's an 8' 6/7 wt thatwon't waste your time false casting. I've practiced shooting line as off a skiff bow and I think it would work well as it has the power to get the line moving in a hurry. The fast loading characteristics of bamboo also give me reason to want to try it out-a copy that is, not my PHY original. Rob Hoffhines from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu May 31 23:04:37 2001 f5144bT04809 Fri, 1 Jun 2001 01:03:53 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: bone fish with bamboo --------------D538A8FDE95512A68545241F Payne Canadian Canoe!Shawn taylor hogan wrote: Has anyone had any experience bone fishing with bamboo?Any tapers onemight suggest --------------D538A8FDE95512A68545241F Payne Canadian Canoe! Shawntaylor hogan wrote: Hasanyone had any experience bone fishing with bamboo?Anytapers one might suggest for such an activity would be most --------------D538A8FDE95512A68545241F-- from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Thu May 31 23:42:30 2001 f514gTT05463 Subject: Rod Identification A friend showed me a rod that his grandfather bought for his dad back inthe 30's or 40's. They lived in New Jersey. It's an 8' 3 piece made oflightly flamed cane with a few dark spots. Node spacing is random with afew nodes on adjoining strips. No major glue lines. The reel seat is ascrew downlock with the front hood attached to the locking nut - appears tobe nickle plated brass with an aluminum spacer. There's a groove on theback of the reel seat. The ferrules are nickle plated brass with"shoulders" - look a lot like the Montague ferrules shown in Sinclair'sbook. Wraps are red with 4 narrow white signature wraps around a red band.The only marking on the rod is "Mountaineer" hand- written in white ink (nowhas a cream/gold coloration due to varnish). One of the ferrules iscracked, but I was able to assemble the rod & it appears to have a niceslow action with good tip recovery. My guess is that this is a Montague, or maybe an H-I that was madespecially for someone. There are no "Mountaineer" models listed anywhere inSinclair's book. Is anyone familiar with a rod like this? Thanks Tom