play that game and it keeps them out of hot water but the effect is thesame... people will know where to find a product. Actually, that salestechnique is a far more effective selling technique. But it is veryeffective and deceptive in that two people are coluding to sell listmembersa product. As it is viewed by others as a non-biased recommendation to useanother's services or purchase of goods. I will admit that in the past I've posted a couple of messages that were toocommercialized for the spirit of the list... and Mike B. has made me veryaware of my errors. Those past posts, I did not respond to the critism as Ifelt that it was deserving. However, I thought my previous post was wellwithin thebounds of the rules. I thought that I was providing a useful and convenient service to members onthe list that did not receive a postcard from Bob. I've made it available paywith a credit card and they can communicate with me by email. This isespecially helpful for our friends in other countries. Bob does not have email nor is he on the web, he is not on the list nor doeshe accept credit cards. His marketing plan was to send out post cards tofriends of his so I did not feel I was stepping on his toes. He obviouslywants me to sell his books as he has sold me books at a dealers price. In fact, he told me he did not want to be accessible by email or the webuntil the book had been out for awhile as he expects the book to be verycontroversial and he wanted to avoid the heat. He expects there to be livelydiscussion on his theories and research... Harry, why begrudge someone who loves cane rods and is able to provideproducts/services to rodmakers as a business. You would prefer listers tosend money to Amazon or a dealer that doesn't know what a bamboo fly rodis?That position is like saying that rod makers should not charge money formaking cane rods... they should only give them away to their family andfriends. I could earn 10 times more money going back to the business I wasin before discovering my love of bamboo fly rods. I don't know about you,but I much prefer to deal with people that share my passion of bamboo flyrods. Naive??? I seriously doubt that anyone on this list could be called naive...I think the listers here are among the most well informed on the subject andin business. Hey, Bob's book is getting good publicity already... you know what they sayin Hollywood, any publicity is good publicity... So... hopefully people will obtain books from any source they choose andthen real, meaningful discussion will begin on the art of rodmaking... Amen! Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: bob millward Darrell, I understand your points, and yes, I'd rather do business with you thanwithAmazon. In reality I purchase about a hundred and fifty books each year,mostof them from the little locally owned bookshop just three doors down frommychildhood home. If Bob's book was available there, that's where I'd buy it.Thank you for your explanation. If I was off the mark, then let me be quicktoapologize. You are completely correct that this particular post was not overtlycommercial. Perhaps I over-reacted by lumping this post in with others youhavemade in the past. That's unfair, and I'm sorry I didn't see the individualmessage for exactly what that one message was. But eleven other listmembershave written me with messages that basically say "Well said!" ApparentlyI'mnot the only one who saw it that way. One unfortunate tendency of humannatureis that we make judgements based on what we have seen in the past. Iwelcomeanyone who wants to judge the spirit of what I post here as one of the most,ifnot THE most prolific participant here. Only once have I ever beenreprimanded At the same time, you persistently promote your business on this list,whichis antithetical to the point and purpose of our activities here. At leastthreeposts to the list had mentioned Bob's name and address. One included hisphonenumber. Anyone who wanted the book could have managed to track Bobdown.Myperception of your post, possibly incorrect, was that you wanted to sell tofolks who would otherwise have purchased the book directly from Bob. As asometime semi-pro hack writer I know how hard it is to make a dime sellingone'swritings. Since Bob's the author, I'd rather buy straight from him so thathecan reap all the rewards. Again, I'll quote the list guidelines... Remember to keep commercial activities as private as possible. Most, ifnot all,business transactions are more appropriately handled through privateemail, orthrough a phone call. If you have any question about the appropriatenessof a post list maintainer(michael@wugate.wustl.edu) for clarification. Posting of Advertisements, Commercial Offers, Marketing Messages, orConsumer Interest Surveys does not fit within the bounds of thisdiscussion forum,and is not permitted on the list. This listserver is not intended to be aSales/Marketing mechanism for commercial organizations. (emphasis added is mine, and sorry for the html -- Aw heck, it's all mine.Iauthored the guidelines about 3 1/2 years ago. I know them like the back ofmyhand) The auto reply feature of this list defaults to sending only to theoriginator of the message. Adding the list to our comments requires us tochoose to do so. My opinion doesn't count for any more than anyone else's,butyou might have handled this situation much more readily through replyingdirectly to the person who sent the note. The grapevine is an effectivemeansof communication. Word will get around that you have copies of this bookforsale, and I truly hope you sell every one you can get your hands on.But this list is not the place to promote your sales. Neither you nor Iwould ever consider announcing to the list that we have an item on eBay.When Iread the original post, that's what it sounded like to me. In no way do I begrudge your making a living off bamboo. I make mylivingdoing something I love, and consider it a great blessing. I, too, couldmakemuch more money doing something else. But money is not the only value weuse toprice our activities. I sell a few rods each year, mostly so that I cancontinue to do something I love as a hobby. Heck, I could make a decentlivingif I wanted to assemble graphite rods. Your analogy suggesting that Iimplythat rodmakers should give their rods away is just plain asinine. Darrell, your experience with rods both old and new is a valuable assettothis list. I appreciate your willingness to share that experience. And Ihaveno doubt that your business is an asset to the bamboo community as well. Isimply do not think that it's right for you to use this list as a tool togenerate sales. A private email would have done that just as effectively. Good night,Harry from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jun 11 09:05:16 2001 f5BE5FZ21295 HAA22525 HAA04202 (5.5.2650.21) "'petermckean@netspace.net.au'" Subject: RE: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up It's all good, just some are MUCH better than others. Vive la differance! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:38 AM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up But, Dave, quite seriously - if, supposing, you had to have a female personcome around to read the water meter, or something, this is probably thesortof, kind of, female person that you would be most likely to select. Right? I mean, a straight saw cut is certainly a straight saw cut, and no disputingthat; but you must admit that there are certain arrangements of thegeneticcoding material which produce individual biological entities which have aninherently higher probability of successfully reproducing themselves. And this is such an entity. In spades! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:55 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up since I hit 71 yrs. old I get a bigger kick out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up Mmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboorodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadratebamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 11 11:02:10 2001 f5BG29Z25899 f5BG5up23707 Subject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up --------------14DAD5AFE544E0E91B1B1F08 Amen.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dave Norling wrote: since I hit 71 yrs. old I get a bigger kick out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up Mmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboorodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadratebamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------14DAD5AFE544E0E91B1B1F08 Amen. Dave Norling wrote: out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message----- From: paul.blakley <paul.blakley@ntlworld.com> Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked upMmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867- 0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------14DAD5AFE544E0E91B1B1F08-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 11 11:03:32 2001 f5BG3WZ26081 f5BG7Jp23876 Subject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up WOW!!!!!!!Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Peter McKean wrote: But, Dave, quite seriously - if, supposing, you had to have a female personcome around to read the water meter, or something, this is probably thesortof, kind of, female person that you would be most likely to select. Right? I mean, a straight saw cut is certainly a straight saw cut, and no disputingthat; but you must admit that there are certain arrangements of thegeneticcoding material which produce individual biological entities which have aninherently higher probability of successfully reproducing themselves. And this is such an entity. In spades! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:55 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up since I hit 71 yrs. old I get a bigger kick out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up Mmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboorodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadratebamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Mon Jun 11 13:13:21 2001 f5BIDLZ00918 Subject: 10 commandments --part1_102.4661edb.28566427_boundary Number 11 Fish as long and often as possible. If you don't have the time ,make it. Jim --part1_102.4661edb.28566427_boundary Number 11 ,make it. Jim --part1_102.4661edb.28566427_boundary-- from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Mon Jun 11 13:24:48 2001 f5BIOlZ01435 Subject: GRAYLOCK [things to do] --part1_10e.10788a4.285666df_boundary Taylor, from what I have received from the list members, it seems as though there will be plenty of other women present. There is sightseeing and historical places, and plenty of shopping . All within an hours drive. Also golf coursescanoeing and some local beaches. Along with all of the above, there are supposed to be some good food establishments. Jim --part1_10e.10788a4.285666df_boundary Taylor, from what I have received from the list members, it seems as thoughthere will be plenty of other women present. There is sightseeing and historical places, and plenty of shopping . within an hours drive. Also golf coursescanoeing and some local beaches. Along with all of the above, there are supposed to be some good food establishments. Jim --part1_10e.10788a4.285666df_boundary-- from dryfly@erols.com Mon Jun 11 13:56:06 2001 f5BIu5Z03529 ([208.58.203.54] helo=erols.com) Subject: Making Reel Seat Butt Caps Can someone provide me off list the details necessary to making reelseat end caps from N/S tubing and sheet. I've read Bob Nunleys' articlein PowerFibers about turning the N/S tubing down, which I understand.The part I really need advice on is the specific tools and materials(and procedures) necessary for soldering the sheet to the tubing. Iwant to order tools and supplies but don't want to buy more than I havetoo. Chris Bogart references some suppliers on his web site and I couldask them but I figured I'd first make an inquiry on the list. ThanksBob from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jun 11 15:03:43 2001 f5BK3hZ07418 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense is meant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outright flimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see your MIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lure polishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) touted as Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of your buyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from homes-sold@home.com Mon Jun 11 15:43:41 2001 f5BKheZ18476 femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: 10 commandments This is a multi-part message in MIME format. #`12 Don't set the hook on Kayaks. #`12 Kayaks. from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 16:06:32 2001 f5BL6VZ24991 Subject: Re: The Ten Commandments of Fly Fishing 1. Fish with bamboo unless you can land at least three times as manyfish with another tool. TNT is illegal 2. Fish dries unless you can land at least five times as many fishwith nymphs. Agreed 3. Never wish that the hike back to the truck was shorter if thatentails wishing away precious steam mileage. 4. Fish in the rain or snow if it comes upon you, but never STARTfishing in the rain or snow. Weenie. 5. Learn to release your catch as safely as possible, but once ortwice a year go out with the explcit plan to take a few home and thensee if you can. Particularly if you've ever heard the expression "you spend 6 hours standingin a river and have nothing to show for it" 6. Never leave rising fish to find better rising fish. There is nosuch thing. Agreed 7. Never leave rising fish for any non-fishing reason. Obviously, you don't have any kids. 8. Fiddle with your tackle ast least as much as you actually fish. Fish five times as much as you fiddle with tackle 9. Take at least one day a season to make fishing better for usall. At least 10. Fish with good company or good fishers and thank God when youcan do both. Amen Paul from vfish@vFish.net Mon Jun 11 16:33:41 2001 f5BLXfZ02880 Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:33:33 -0500 Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Ouch... I like Harry and I respect and value his opinion. He's a good man. I saidnothing in my post otherwise... I was surprised by his post, but I will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder them andlove them. A guy just emailed me and wants to reordered 4 dozen! Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address and I'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and post yourreview on the list. Good or bad. It's simply unfair to judge a productwithout having tried it. You wouldn't believe the rave reviews people givethem. If after trying one out, you feel it's a waste of money, by all meansreport that to the list. Then I could not question your integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of that book...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... since Ibecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book. Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a starting pricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I've soldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes an itemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the way thecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywords forauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and I willsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid if Ifeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got a singlenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an item andretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give a satisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returns ofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so it wasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returned itemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure every customerissatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded, negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But I findwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the delete key.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, since Istrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow off steam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to me andofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderful case cautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and it isperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do it everyday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'll chalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for a motorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget) thatthreatened to come down with his gang and kill me because I wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening over thephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because he knewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, I addressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you... Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is coming from... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my post wasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record. Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email me offlist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, but Ido the best I can. Please don't act childishly, it's a real turn off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense ismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of yourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Jun 11 16:46:39 2001 f5BLkcZ06417 Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:46:34 +0100 Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Come on chaps it's time to drop all of this,live and forget......Paul Darrell Lee wrote: Ouch... I like Harry and I respect and value his opinion. He's a good man. I saidnothing in my post otherwise... I was surprised by his post, but I will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder them andlove them. A guy just emailed me and wants to reordered 4 dozen! Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address and I'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and postyourreview on the list. Good or bad. It's simply unfair to judge a productwithout having tried it. You wouldn't believe the rave reviews people givethem. If after trying one out, you feel it's a waste of money, by all meansreport that to the list. Then I could not question your integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of that book...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... since Ibecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book. Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a starting pricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I've soldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes an itemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the way thecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywords forauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and I willsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid if Ifeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got a singlenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an item andretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give a satisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returns ofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so it wasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returned itemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure everycustomer issatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded, negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But I findwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the delete key.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, since Istrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow offsteam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to me andofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderful case cautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and it isperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do it everyday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'll chalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for a motorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget)thatthreatened to come down with his gang and kill me because I wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening over thephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because heknewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, I addressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you... Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is coming from... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my postwasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record. Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email me offlist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, but Ido the best I can. Please don't act childishly, it's a real turn off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offenseismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most ofyourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jun 11 16:57:31 2001 f5BLvUZ09432 (63.228.45.223) "rodmakers" Subject: Re: The Ten Commandments of Fly Fishing Henry David Thoureau said"Some people fish all their lives without realizing it's not fish they areafter"Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The Ten Commandments of Fly Fishing 1. Fish with bamboo unless you can land at least three times as manyfish with another tool. TNT is illegal 2. Fish dries unless you can land at least five times as many fishwith nymphs. Agreed 3. Never wish that the hike back to the truck was shorter if thatentails wishing away precious steam mileage. 4. Fish in the rain or snow if it comes upon you, but never STARTfishing in the rain or snow. Weenie. 5. Learn to release your catch as safely as possible, but once ortwice a year go out with the explcit plan to take a few home and thensee if you can. Particularly if you've ever heard the expression "you spend 6 hoursstandingin a river and have nothing to show for it" 6. Never leave rising fish to find better rising fish. There is nosuch thing. Agreed 7. Never leave rising fish for any non-fishing reason. Obviously, you don't have any kids. 8. Fiddle with your tackle ast least as much as you actually fish. Fish five times as much as you fiddle with tackle 9. Take at least one day a season to make fishing better for usall. At least 10. Fish with good company or good fishers and thank God when youcan do both. Amen Paul from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Mon Jun 11 17:14:49 2001 f5BMEmZ14065 Subject: "Wrath of the net" --part1_113.2a6ba0.28569cd0_boundary Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think I am an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some may say otherwise.Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up. To put it mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin someone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do have a delete key that works well. Thank you,Jim --part1_113.2a6ba0.28569cd0_boundary Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think Iam an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some may say otherwise.Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builderand like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up. To putit mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruinsomeone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I dohave a delete key that works well. Thank you,Jim --part1_113.2a6ba0.28569cd0_boundary-- from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Jun 11 17:16:08 2001 f5BMG7Z14505 Subject: RE: "Wrath of the net" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Well said. -----Original Message----- Subject: "Wrath of the net" Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think Iam an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some may say otherwise. Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up. To putit mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin someone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do have a delete key that works well. Thank you, Jim Well said. -----Original Message-----From: GRNMTRODS@aol.com 4:15 "Wrath of the net"Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think I am an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or atleast I thought I did. Some may say otherwise. Everyday, on thiscomputer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to anyonethat has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up.To put it mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of youare doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in thegoal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin someone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net.Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do havea delete key that works well. Thank you, Jim from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Mon Jun 11 19:50:21 2001 f5C0oKZ16662 Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:50:05 -0700 Subject: Re: 10 commandments This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 12a. Always set the hook on Jet Skis! Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:48 PMSubject: 10 commandments #`12 Don't set the hook on Kayaks. 12a. Always set the hook on Jet =Skis! ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 =1:48 PMSubject: 10commandments #`12 Kayaks. from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jun 11 20:14:05 2001 f5C1E4Z21699 Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods --part1_a5.16f15396.2856c6b4_boundary In a message dated 6/11/01 2:34:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,vfish@vFish.net writes: I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... Reed, Darrell might be soaking these things in snake oil - but you know what? They work. Don Burns --part1_a5.16f15396.2856c6b4_boundary In a message dated6/11/01 2:34:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vfish@vFish.net writes: I'll bet severallisters have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... Reed, Darrell might be soaking these things in snake oil - but you know what?They work. Don Burns --part1_a5.16f15396.2856c6b4_boundary-- from rkrees@mcn.net Mon Jun 11 21:05:31 2001 f5C25UZ02403 Subject: sulfnbk.exe About a week ago someone posted instructions for a fix if you were coughtbythis hoax. Could that person please forward them to me for a friend.Thanks Ron from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jun 11 21:08:21 2001 f5C28LZ03146 (63.228.45.181) Subject: Re: "Wrath of the net" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I agree-----Original Message-----From: jmpio@nhbm.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:21 PMSubject: RE: "Wrath of the net" Well said.-----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: "Wrath of the net" I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old = I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some = Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod = like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly = It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled = mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I = getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are = We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal = building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try = to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin = Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me = I agree -----Original = jmpio@nhbm.com =GRNMTRODS@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, June 11, 2001 5:21 PMSubject: RE:"Wrath = net"Well said. -----Original Message-----From: GRNMTRODS@aol.com "Wrath of the net"Hello, I might as = adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I = did. Some may say otherwise. Everyday, on this computer, = a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to = that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about = subject. It seems as though some of you folks are = little riled up. To put it mildley, I've been pissed before = a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face = wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be = all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all = breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one = who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my = Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do have a delete key = from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jun 11 21:46:01 2001 f5C2k0Z10550 Subject: Re: "Wrath of the net" rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_120.2b6c37.2856dc5b_boundary OK guys don't you all think this is getting a little out of hand. Now most of us on this list I think are adults in one form or another, "RIGHT". So why don't we all back off and just forget about this whole thing? I for one did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the list and I do not think it should be going as far as it is. Most of you are familiar with me out there and know where I am usually coming from. Some times WEALL say things that may or may not be appropriate for the list and we usually get called out for it. No offense to Harry because I have the utmost respect for him as I do 99.99% of all of you but I agree that he should have addressed DL OFF LIST and that he made a faux pas here. Harry if this makes you mad atme I mean NO FOUL so let's everyone just DROP IT and get back to rods andSTUFF. Come on boys put something up here that will be of value to us all. caught about 35 trout, nothing larger than 16 "s and lost or missed as many. Water looked like coca cola but the fish were still taking dries off the top. I actually think this fact made the fish easier to catch as I caught or raised almost every riser I could cast to. This is not a fish story either. OK that is it and I put in the usual disclaimer. If this POed anyone in any way tell me off list and leave the crap for fertilizer. BRET --part1_120.2b6c37.2856dc5b_boundary OK guys don't you all think this is getting a little out of hand. of us on this list I think are adults in one form or another, "RIGHT". did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the listand I familiar with me out there and know where I am usually coming from. say things that may or may not be appropriate for the list and weusually get respect for him as I do 99.99% of all of you but I agree that he should haveaddressed DL you mad at me I mean NO FOUL so let's everyone just DROP IT and get back to rods andSTUFF. all. hear about the Muskegon last weekend I caught about 35 trout, nothing larger than 16 "s and lost or missed as Water looked like coca cola but the fish were still taking dries off thetop. caught or either. BRET --part1_120.2b6c37.2856dc5b_boundary-- from iank@ts.co.nz Mon Jun 11 22:20:42 2001 f5C3KeZ16833 Subject: Re: was "Wrath of the net" now " an opportunity" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Guys and Girls At the risk of incurring the wrath of some , but also looking to =change the subject , you might like to look at the following site for =some great information on New Zealand fishing. It might just inspire =those of you who are contemplating coming to the Gathering down here =next year. ( March 9th and 10th to be exact) I should also add that I have only meet Tony once and have absolutely =no commercial interest. The site is www.tonyentwistlesflyfishing.co.nz Iank Guys and Girls At the risk of incurring the wrath = but also looking to change the subject , you might like to look at the = following site for some great information on New Zealand fishing. It = just inspire those of you who are contemplating coming to the = here next year. ( March 9th and 10th to be exact) example of how to do a web site. I should also add that I have only = and have absolutely no commercial interest. The site is www.tonyentwistlesflyf=ishing.co.nz Iank from richjez@enteract.com Mon Jun 11 23:57:55 2001 f5C4vsZ05540 Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods --=====================_17772993==_.ALT Since I am quoted early in this email, I feel I am entitled to and a need to respond. First: here we go again. Someone expresses an opinion and someone elsegets defensive and the hostility begins. We have lost some very valuable list members in the past due to this behavior, including Reed. It hasn't been very long since the last list members left due to hostilities. Unfortunately, this time that second someone has a commercial interest. That does make a difference. Second: Reed has made numerous original contributions to the list, he was the one who reintroduced us to silk likes. In fact you have his contribution on your web site http://vfish.net/silkrecon2.htm. Talking about libel and using that persons's information seems like the pot calling the kettle black. Sorry, plagiarism and libel are different things legally. (You did get Reeds' written permission to post his article didn't you?) Reed also had enlightened us to the "benefits" of long rods. Both of these are ways if thinking that are outside of conventional thought on these subjects. When the threat of attorneys enters a conversation, all creativity stops. That is too bad. One of the best things of this list is the creativity that is freely offered. Darryl, lighten up. Harry was right explaining the list guidelines with his post: commercialism for personal gain is not allowed. You have been over that line many times. Having been is sales before, I realizes that having something to offer can and will make one aggressive in getting out the information. You were right when you said you could have said the book could have been gotten from Bob Millward or you. If that would have been included in your post, that would have diminished some perception of the personal gain motive of your post. You do have something different to offer that Bob doesn't, as you pointed out. You offer credit cared and your price is in US dollars so no conversion is needed. Ordering form Bob had its advantages too. The author gains directly from his efforts. I realize how having something to offer can make one aggressive but Darryl, try to relax and listen what others have to say without responding defensively. I think that respect is the key word here. If we respond with respect to the others position, the list will become what most of us want it to be: Informative and peaceful. Soapbox off. So who will go fishing with a poor caster, me, at Grayling? Rich Jezioro At 04:33 PM 6/11/01, Darrell Lee wrote:Ouch... I like Harry and I respect and value his opinion. He's a good man. I saidnothing in my post otherwise... I was surprised by his post, but I will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder them andlove them. A guy just emailed me and wants to reordered 4 dozen! Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address and I'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and post yourreview on the list. Good or bad. It's simply unfair to judge a productwithout having tried it. You wouldn't believe the rave reviews people givethem. If after trying one out, you feel it's a waste of money, by all meansreport that to the list. Then I could not question your integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of that book...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... since Ibecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book. Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a starting pricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I've soldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes an itemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the way thecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywords forauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and I willsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid if Ifeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got a singlenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an item andretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give a satisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returns ofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so it wasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returned itemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure every customerissatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded, negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But I findwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the delete key.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, since Istrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow off steam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to me andofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderful case cautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and it isperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do it everyday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'll chalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for a motorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget) thatthreatened to come down with his gang and kill me because I wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening over thephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because he knewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, I addressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you... Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is coming from... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my post wasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record. Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email me offlist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, but Ido the best I can. Please don't act childishly, it's a real turn off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense ismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of yourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):> --=====================_17772993==_.ALT Since I am quoted early in this email, I feel I am entitled to and a needto respond. First: here we go again. Someone expresses an opinion and someone elsegets defensive and the hostility begins. We have lost some very valuablelist members in the past due to this behavior, including Reed. It hasn'tbeen very long since the last list members left due to hostilities.Unfortunately, this time that second someone has a commercial interest.That does make a difference. Second: Reed has made numerous original contributions to the list, he wasthe one who reintroduced us to silk likes. In fact you have hiscontribution on your web sitehttp://vfish.=net/silkrecon2.htm.Talking about libel and using that persons's information seems like thepot calling the kettle black. Sorry, plagiarism and libel are differentthings legally. (You did get Reeds' written permission to post hisarticle didn't you?) Reed also had enlightened us to the"benefits" of long rods. Both of these are ways if thinking that are outside of conventionalthought on these subjects. When the threat of attorneys enters aconversation, all creativity stops. That is too bad. One of the bestthings of this list is the creativity that is freely offered. Darryl, lighten up. Harry was right explaining the list guidelines withhis post: commercialism for personal gain is not allowed. You have beenover that line many times. Having been is sales before, I realizes thathaving something to offer can and will make one aggressive in getting outthe information. You were right when you said you could have said the book could have beengotten from Bob Millward or you. If that would have been included in yourpost, that would have diminished some perception of the personal gainmotive of your post. You do have something different to offer that Bob doesn't, as you pointedout. You offer credit cared and your price is in US dollars so noconversion is needed. Ordering form Bob had its advantages too. Theauthor gains directly from his efforts. I realize how having something to offer can make one aggressive butDarryl, try to relax and listen what others have to say withoutresponding defensively. I think that respect is the key word here. If werespond with respect to the others position, the list will become whatmost of us want it to be: Informative and peaceful. Soapbox off. So who will go fishing with a poor caster, me, atGrayling? Rich Jezioro At 04:33 PM 6/11/01, Darrell Lee wrote:Ouch... I said will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder themand Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address andI'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and postyour product people give all means integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tellReedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of thatbook...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... sinceIbecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book.Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a startingpricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I'vesoldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes anitemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the waythecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywordsforauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and Iwillsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid ifIfeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got asinglenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an itemandretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give asatisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returnsofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so itwasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returneditemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure every customerissatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded,negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But Ifindwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the deletekey.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, sinceIstrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow offsteam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to meandofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderfulcase morecautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and itisperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do iteveryday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'llchalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for amotorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget)that wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening overthephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because heknewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, Iaddressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you...Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is comingfrom... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my postwasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record.Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email meofflist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, butI off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Reed Curry Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell, defenseof Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense ismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge ofoutrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE HeddonLurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age)toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused. worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of yourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" toall.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_17772993==_.ALT-- from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Tue Jun 12 00:21:20 2001 f5C5LJZ07515 Subject: H-I Ferrule I'm refinishing an old H-I for a friend. The male ferrule on the midsection was severely cracked & I'll need to replace it. I removed the maletonight and need some advice before I go any further. First of all, the ferrules are pinned on one side only. I managed to wigglethe cracked male ferrule to get it to pop up enough to grip it with pliers& pull it out. Is there a trick to getting these pins out without cuttingthe ferrule or damaging the bamboo? The ferrule looks like nickle plated brass. The male is 1-9/16 long, with a"shoulder" that starts at 1-1/16. The station for the male is just barelyunder 16/64 max at the base. The area covered by the shoulder isn't sanded- it measures .268. I haven't taken the female off to measure it yet (seequestion on removing the pins), but I assume it's one of the old step- downferrules where the male is 2/64 smaller than the female. What's the best replacement ferrule for something like this? Are there anysources for old ferrules like this? Maybe ones that have been salvaged offof old rods? Or should I simply put new nickle-silver ferrules on it? I'mnot worried about restoring it to original specs - the goal is simply tomake the rod useful again. The ferrules on the tip sections are in goodshape and fit well, so if I could find a close replacement for the mid-buttI could save my buddy some money. Otherwise, I'll need to replace all ofthe ferrules - a bit pricey for a rod like this. But it was his Dad's rod &he'd really like to fish it again. Any advice would be much appreciated. BTW, the rod is an 8 footer with "Mountaineer" written above the grip. Just section, the diameter varied by as much as .010! Really makes youappreciate the workmanship on custom rods, even the ones made by anamatuerrookie like me! Tom from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 12 04:58:54 2001 f5C9wsZ10066 sender ) Subject: Re: H-I Ferrule The main reason rod like HI and Montague are regarded with such distain isthequality of the ferrules. By replacing these orig. plated ferrules with a setof new NS step down ferrules you increase the rods quality 10 fold.To remove ferrules that are pinned on 1 side simply drive the pin into thebamboo far enough to allow the ferrule to be removed. If this cannot be donebecause the pin is hitting the other side of the ferrule simply drill the pinto a depth that will allow the ferrule to be removed. Marty Tom Bowden wrote: I'm refinishing an old H-I for a friend. The male ferrule on the midsection was severely cracked & I'll need to replace it. I removed the maletonight and need some advice before I go any further. First of all, the ferrules are pinned on one side only. I managed to wigglethe cracked male ferrule to get it to pop up enough to grip it with pliers& pull it out. Is there a trick to getting these pins out without cuttingthe ferrule or damaging the bamboo? The ferrule looks like nickle plated brass. The male is 1-9/16 long, with a"shoulder" that starts at 1-1/16. The station for the male is just barelyunder 16/64 max at the base. The area covered by the shoulder isn'tsanded- it measures .268. I haven't taken the female off to measure it yet (seequestion on removing the pins), but I assume it's one of the old step- downferrules where the male is 2/64 smaller than the female. What's the best replacement ferrule for something like this? Are there anysources for old ferrules like this? Maybe ones that have been salvaged offof old rods? Or should I simply put new nickle-silver ferrules on it? I'mnot worried about restoring it to original specs - the goal is simply tomake the rod useful again. The ferrules on the tip sections are in goodshape and fit well, so if I could find a close replacement for the mid-buttI could save my buddy some money. Otherwise, I'll need to replace all ofthe ferrules - a bit pricey for a rod like this. But it was his Dad's rod &he'd really like to fish it again. Any advice would be much appreciated. BTW, the rod is an 8 footer with "Mountaineer" written above the grip. Just section, the diameter varied by as much as .010! Really makes youappreciate the workmanship on custom rods, even the ones made by anamatuerrookie like me! Tom from briansr@point-net.com Tue Jun 12 07:30:31 2001 f5CCUUZ11340 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:33:44 -0400 , Subject: Re: "Wrath of the net" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. You're right and "the Battle of the Bilge" should be declared over !! Sent: June 11, 2001 10:45 PMSubject: Re: "Wrath of the net" OK guys don't you all think this is getting a little out of hand. Now = of us on this list I think are adults in one form or another, "RIGHT". = why don't we all back off and just forget about this whole thing? I = did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the = do not think it should be going as far as it is. Most of you are = with me out there and know where I am usually coming from. Some times = say things that may or may not be appropriate for the list and we = called out for it. No offense to Harry because I have the utmost = him as I do 99.99% of all of you but I agree that he should have = OFF LIST and that he made a faux pas here. Harry if this makes you = I mean NO FOUL so let's everyone just DROP IT and get back to rods and = caught about 35 trout, nothing larger than 16 "s and lost or missed as = Water looked like coca cola but the fish were still taking dries off = I actually think this fact made the fish easier to catch as I caught = raised almost every riser I could cast to. This is not a fish story = OK that is it and I put in the usual disclaimer. If this POed = Bret You're right and "the Battle of the Bilge" should be = over !! ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: June 11, 2001 10:45 =PMSubject: Re: "Wrath of the =net"OK guys= did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the = are familiar with me out there and know where I am usually coming = because I have the utmost respect for him as I do 99.99% of all of = I agree that he should have addressed DL OFF LIST and that he made = wants = about the Muskegon last weekend I caught about 35 trout, nothing = this fact made the fish easier to catch as I caught or raised = from stuart.rod@gmx.de Tue Jun 12 08:08:26 2001 f5CD8PZ12299 Subject: Re: Bob Milward's Book Hi everybody.........is anybody still reading this thread?...... What exactly is Bob's book about? I seem to have missed out on something,hasanybody read it and can you give me an idea about it's content. Thanks Stuart John Bokstrom schrieb: Copies of Bob's book can be purchased directly from Bob at:Bob Milward,1851 Rufus Drive,North Vancouver, B.C. V7J 3L8Price is $33.50 U.S. or $50 Can., includes S&H. Send money order orcheque.FYI - The Canadian dollar hovers around 65 US cents.No financial interest. from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Jun 12 08:19:12 2001 f5CDJBZ13123 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Polishing Cloths Guys, All this stuff about polishing cloths had me look @ my Gesswein ToolCatalogue. They list several types of cloths that might/should/maybe/whoknows work for polishing cane and rod fittings.1] This one is produced by 3M and the hype says" this amazing cloth has oiland water absorbing fibers that lift and trap liquids, grease and dirtparticles. The specially knitted design does a better job of cleaningsurfaces than conventional wipes." They come is a number of colors @ $ 5.50ea. 2] And on page 57 we have a selection of polishing cloths a] a Green and While Polishing Cloth - whose hype says " This white sideremoves fine scratches with microcrystalline grit. The green side producesa bight shine and leaves a protective anti-tarnish finish". they sell @ $3.90 eab] Luster Cloth whose hype says " Cleaner than a rouge cloth. Luster clotha soft felt-like material with special additive that remove tarnish anddirt. Plus it actually polishes."c] Astic-Birille Cloth whose hype says " A quick rub with this treatedpolishing cloth will instantly give a brilliant, long- lasting luster to allmetals without scratching." $ 4.48 ea.d] Gesswein rouge Cloth whose hype says " A double polishing cloth forremoval of tarnish and for final polishing." $ 2.17 ea.e] Cape Cod Anti-tarnishing Polishing Cloths whose hype says " With easyrubbing, these moist cotton cloths remove dirt and tarnish from sterlingsilver, gold, brass, bronze, copper, pewter, aluminum and stainlesssteel.... Also protects against tarnish, water stains, and corrosionleaving an invisible coating of Anti-Tarnish protector." for $ 4.45 ea. And from a earlier thread, on the facing page we have Felt Sticks in bothhard and soft for $ .56 ea. And there are a selection of files that may be suitable for ferrule fitting+ craving tools for those that really want to engrave metal parts and onand on. This is great catalogue from a jewelry supply house whose web site iswww.gesswein.com Sure makes great bedside reading. regards, Don from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 08:55:10 2001 f5CDt9Z14607 2001 06:55:08 PDT Subject: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, what kind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jun 12 09:34:08 2001 f5CEY7Z15773 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:33:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Jerry,The few times I have used winding checks I have glued them. I seemto remember than I slid the check nearly to its place, and used a tinydab of epoxy on the end of a toothpick. But most of the time I simplydon't use a check... Thanks for changing the subject.Harry Jerry Madigan wrote: Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, what kind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 09:56:39 2001 f5CEucZ16540 2001 07:56:37 PDT Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Jerry, traditionally you do not glue on a windingcheck but, rather, butt the winding check against thecork and use the thread wrap in front of the windingcheck to secure it. This is the traditional way butI'm sure, not the only way. Bill Walters --- Jerry Madigan wrote:Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, whatkind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Mackelvane@aol.com Tue Jun 12 09:57:48 2001 f5CEvlZ16706 Jun 2001 10:57:35 -0400 Subject: Southwest Colorado Hello all, In a couple of weeks I'll be traveling to the Durango area to visit a friend. If Isay the right things and show up with the right flowers, she might let mespend a morning or two on the local waters. I'll make every effort to workthe San Juan, but I'd appreciate any advice on other streams in the area.Thanks in advance for any help. -Jeremy from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jun 12 10:01:50 2001 f5CF1nZ17135 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: An end to the Brouhaha, I hope My previous message, six simple lines, seems to have been miscontrued. Let's re-examine what I said. In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. "huck" -- to bargain. Hardly something one can take offense at, and I indicated that it was not meant as offensive. No offense is meant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge ofoutright flimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. Here I rise to Darrell's defense by stating that he is not guilty of outright deception. If this is incorrect please let him know. We see your MIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE HeddonLure polishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age)touted as Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused. Its a matter of individual taste; this type of advertizing doesn't appeal to all audiences. At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most ofyour buyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all. Here I am not saying that the goods tendered are snakeoil, rather the sales approach is similar to the selling of snakeoil. Note that I also indicate that most of Darrell's customers are happy. Again, if this is incorrect please so note. My apologies to all list members who may have been disturbed by what became an unseemly row. I hope that this will be the end of the matter. BTW, if Darrell had an item for sale that caught my fancy, I would not hesitate to purchase from him.-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from rextutor@about.com Tue Jun 12 10:10:41 2001 f5CFAeZ17600 (NPlex 5.1.050) Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. One gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel let her bid $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. I bought a book from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it from them. He promised thread for the inconvenience but conveniently forgot the thread. He thinks because a live author signs it , the lawyer to me as I relaying facts I have observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have apologized for breaking the rules and let it drop. The ethical result speaks for itself. Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jun 12 10:16:39 2001 f5CFGdZ17938 ([208.58.202.64] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks I agree unless they don't fit tight enough. In that case I either gluewith a little epoxy or better yet, build up the area where the windingcheck will go with silk thread and then use a little bit of epoxy, itshouldn't take too much epoxy. One area of concern though is when usinga round check and dipping, its possible if you don't have a good sealbetween the check and the cork, that the varnish will seep up into thehollows created between the round check and the flats of the rod and beabsorbed into the cork. Great case for using a tight fitting hex check. Bob Bill Walters wrote: Jerry, traditionally you do not glue on a windingcheck but, rather, butt the winding check against thecork and use the thread wrap in front of the windingcheck to secure it. This is the traditional way butI'm sure, not the only way. Bill Walters --- Jerry Madigan wrote:Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, whatkind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -only $35a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from ddeloach@pcisys.net Tue Jun 12 11:49:32 2001 f5CGnVZ21881 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: ethics This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell a few months back. =It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--a couple of leaders, =burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding thread. When I ask him =about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff got put in =my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy throwing in some =freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again without hesitation. Don DeLoach with = I couldn't disagree more. I ordered = Darrell a few months back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies = couple of leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding = I ask him about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff = in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy throwing in = freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again without = hesitation. DonDeLoach from ddeloach@pcisys.net Tue Jun 12 12:07:32 2001 f5CH7VZ22587 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net)Message-ID: Subject: Re: Southwest Colorado, fishing not rodmaking Hi Jeremy and Rodmakers,I live in Colorado Springs and am the sole distributer of fishinginformation for Colorado....just kidding, couldn't resist. Durango will bejust barely coming out of runoff by then, so you should have an excellentchance at some great fishing. For short cane rods and dry flies I like theupper Animas drainage. There are tons of creeks up there. Lime Creek andHermosa creek are my favs. Also try the East Fork of Hermosa Creek at thefoot of Durango-Purgatory Ski Area. Native cutthroats galore in a beautifultiny meadow stream! For river fishing the animas in town is nice as is thePiedra about an hour east of Durango. If you have time and don't mind thedrive to South Fork-Creede area the Upper Rio Grande is fabulous. AlsoI wanted to let everyone else know that if your coming to CO thissummer weekend and some weeknights after work so Ive got lots to share. And ifanyone is in the Pikes Peak area and wants to to go out to the Platte withme the beer will be on ice. Best,Don D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Southwest Colorado Hello all, In a couple of weeks I'll be traveling to the Durango area to visit afriend. If I say the right things and show up with the right flowers, shemight let me spend a morning or two on the local waters. I'll make everyeffort to work the San Juan, but I'd appreciate any advice on other streamsin the area. Thanks in advance for any help. -Jeremy from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 12:21:20 2001 f5CHLKZ23188 (63.225.233.56) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Hexagonal reel seats I have a conceptual problem that I'm sure someone on the list can help mewith. For those of you doing hexagonal reel seat spacers, what kind ofhardware to you use to secure the reel foot? I don't mean aluminum or NS,but what shape is the barrel or the lock rings. How does it secure? Isanyone trying to use hex shaped hardware with the spacer, or are you guysadapting the spacer to fit more traditional round hardware. While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use winding checks,preferring to wrap your thread up to or onto the cork. I have always likedthe hex shaped winding checks on some older rods. Anyone using those, andif so, where could one obtain some? Thanks, Jason SwanLogan, UT from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 12:24:01 2001 f5CHO0Z23418 (63.225.233.56) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: One more thing I couple of months ago, I lost the url for a new bamboo rod forum thatsomeone had started up. Anyone got that url? I haven't been back and Iwant to see how it has shaped up since the last time I was there. Jason SwanLogan, UT from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 12:26:18 2001 f5CHQGZ23684 Subject: Re: ethics This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Although I was going to stay out of this rathole I'll second Don's = Can we take this off list? Please Paul Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:50 PMSubject: ethics I couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell a few months =back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--a couple of =leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding thread. When I =ask him about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff =got put in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy =throwing in some freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again without hesitation. Don DeLoach Although I was going to stay out of = I'll second Don's sentiments. Can we take this off list? =Please Paul ----- Original Message ----- Don= Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 = PMSubject: ethics with = I couldn't disagree more. I ordered = Darrell a few months back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies = couple of leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding = When I ask him about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses = got put in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy = some freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again = hesitation. Don =DeLoach from dr.matro@airmail.net Tue Jun 12 12:50:36 2001 f5CHoZZ24604 ring.iadfw.net sender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Re: Southwest Colorado Jeremy Lime, Cascade and Hermosa Creeks with Steve Meyers or Don Oliver is agreat way to see some of the smaller waters when you get tired of thecrowds on the Juan. Steve guides with Duranglers; Don has his own gig. Good luck and tell'em hi for me. Ken Cole from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jun 12 13:03:45 2001 f5CI3iZ25129 ([208.58.203.203] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: Hexagonal reel seats Jason Russ Gooding (Golden Witch) and REC both sell hex winding checks, not sureabout Bob Venneri.. In addition, Jeff Wagner sells hex and quad punches formaking hex and quad checks out of round checks. The Best of Planing Formhasan article about using a punch. Absolutely and definitely no financial interests (notice I mentionedcompetitors)Bob Jason Swan wrote: While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use winding checks,preferring to wrap your thread up to or onto the cork. I have always likedthe hex shaped winding checks on some older rods. Anyone using those,andif so, where could one obtain some? Thanks, Jason SwanLogan, UT from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jun 12 13:17:18 2001 f5CIHGZ25700 Subject: Re: Hexagonal reel seats --=====================_1446231==_.ALT Jason:A hexagonal punch from someone like Jeff Wagner will "hex" up you round checks. Looks nice and is easy. Jeff also has ones for quads. There are probably several others who have these items, but I have Jeff's and they are very nice tools.Bob At 11:21 AM 6/12/2001 -0600, Jason Swan wrote:I have a conceptual problem that I'm sure someone on the list can help mewith. For those of you doing hexagonal reel seat spacers, what kind ofhardware to you use to secure the reel foot? I don't mean aluminum or NS,but what shape is the barrel or the lock rings. How does it secure? Isanyone trying to use hex shaped hardware with the spacer, or are you guysadapting the spacer to fit more traditional round hardware. While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use winding checks,preferring to wrap your thread up to or onto the cork. I have always likedthe hex shaped winding checks on some older rods. Anyone using those,andif so, where could one obtain some? Thanks, Jason SwanLogan, UT Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_1446231==_.ALT Jason:A hexagonal punch from someone like Jeff Wagner will "hex" upyou round checks. Looks nice and is easy. Jeff also has ones for quads.There are probably several others who have these items, but I have Jeff'sand they are very nice tools.BobAt 11:21 AM 6/12/2001 -0600, Jason Swan wrote:I have a conceptual problem thatI'm sure someone on the list can help me of or NS, anyone trying to use hex shaped hardware with the spacer, or are youguysadapting the spacer to fit more traditional round hardware.While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use windingchecks, always liked those, andif so, where could one obtain some?Thanks,Jason SwanLogan, UT Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_1446231==_.ALT-- from rextutor@about.com Tue Jun 12 15:25:40 2001 f5CKPdZ00539 (NPlex 5.1.050) "rod" Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment Nice Words. I read them as salesmamshipand PR. I watched the sceneos directed as they happened. Sorry it is not second hand. You did not offer anyone the book at a lower price. She had to ask to get out of What you did wrong was you broke the rules on this listserve. You lied to everyone saying all your customers were satisfied. I have two (and only know of two) of your customers who recommend against you. I highly recommend you apologise and let it drop. I didn't even read all the PR. I know better than to be pursuaded by words alone. I have Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from wiljette@nmia.com Tue Jun 12 15:45:56 2001 f5CKjsZ01982 (Smail-3.2.0.109 1999-Oct-27 #6 built 2000-Oct-18) Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks f5CKjtZ01986 Jerry: I use round winding checks with an ID between the flat to flatdimension and the corner to corner dimension.at the grip. I mark the locationof the check on the butt section and using the lathe, trim the section downto the ID of the check stopping at the mark. The check slides on before thecork which locks it in place. No thread or glue is required. Will ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, what kind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@about.com Tue Jun 12 16:00:03 2001 f5CL02Z02677 (NPlex 5.1.050) Subject: Re: Making Reel Seat Butt Caps I'd like to read more about technicques on this subject. I would like to make ferrules, too. I have a Sherline lathe. Let me know if is not propritary , what you learn. Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 12 16:30:43 2001 f5CLUhZ04136 Subject: Re: ethics --------------7C4D7750C7BC8B803EFB4933 I also couldn't disagree more. I have had the priviledge of emaildealings with Darrell and have met him in person. A first class guy!Marty Don DeLoach wrote: I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers.Perhaps they have on this list.://About.com I couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell afew months back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--acouple of leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod windingthread. When I ask him about it I was thinking he would say thatsomeone elses stuff got put in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--justa true nice guy throwing in some freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again withouthesitation. Don DeLoach --------------7C4D7750C7BC8B803EFB4933 I also couldn't disagree more. I have had the priviledge of email dealingswith Darrell and have met him in person. A first class guy! MartyDon DeLoach wrote: have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never orderanything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up withdealers.Perhaps they have on this list. couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell a few months back.It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--a couple of leaders,burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding thread. When I ask himabout it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff got put inmy shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy throwing in somefreebies--and I had never ordered from him DeLoach --------------7C4D7750C7BC8B803EFB4933-- from vfish@vFish.net Tue Jun 12 16:48:09 2001 f5CLm8Z05001 Subject: Customer Service, order fulfillment The gal was a high bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered to sellit to her the book at the retail price of $18.95 instead of the higherauction price of $37-47 (I don't remember the actual price). She found aused copy for $7 and apparently wanted me to match taht price which I couldnot and would not do, SO I CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HER OBLIGATIONTOBUY THE BOOK from ME. It is not my fault that a person feels an item isworth more than the retail price. I had bought a used copy of this book for$68 or around there. But, I too later found it for a lower price, but Ihonored my obligation and paid for the book that I bid on as I honor mycommitments but I don't hold others to my same standards. I certainlydidn't want to sell a new book to her below my cost for a used book pricewhich is below wholesale. I believe she was wrong for backing out of herobligation to buy the book but I did not hold her to her obligation. I alsotold her I would not post a negative feedback for her non-payment as shewasa friend of so-and-so. (I wouldn't have anyway as I don't want to be anegative person). I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The other example was the guy bought a book from me and I accidentlyshippedhim the wrong book (a more expensive book I might add). So apparently hisbook got shipped to the other person. That venue I used does not give outthe buyers email address so I could only send him a letter which he neverreplied to. Finally have an extended period of time, the other buyercontacted me and denied that he received the wrong book. So, I shipped thecorrect book to your friend and asked that he ship the wrong book to theother buyer... I made an honest mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... I neverreceived the other book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that gotscrewed on that deal... but yes, your guy did get his book from me and ittook far longer than normal. I also paid him for the shipping costs toforward the book to the other buyer. I'll have to contact him because if Ipromised him a free item and didn't send it... then certainly I would makegood on any promise made... but that transaction was awhile ago and I don'trecall those details... It's not ethics that should be at issue on those two orders, but logisticson one and I should be exonerated on the other... IF ANYTHING, YOUR FIRSTEXAMPLE SHOULD ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DOBUSINESS WITH. Please, your stories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors... askPeter M... I shipped him two of the same books... I have been going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 orders perday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send outorder slowly or send the wrong items... but, stuff happens... Right now, my order fulfillment is running approximately 90% of my ordersship within 2 business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1 businessday and 25% ship on the same day as the order has been received. Lately,one of my problems is that I have shipped items too quickly and when aperson is buying multiple items from me at auction, he doesn't notify me andso I've already shipped his first items so that we cannot combine them andsave him some money on shipping. But, at the current pace, I cannot affordto slow down my order fulfillment as I cannot allow my shipments to getbacked up... Regarding autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell formore when autographed by the author. They also often cost me more as wellsuch as Sinclair's books because I had to pay to have them shipped fromColorado to Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the doubleshipping plus compensate the author for taking the time to signing his booksand repackage and ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books aresuch aniche market, the number of books printed is usually small so a small numberof books with an autograph commands a much higher price. That's just thewayit is. Rex, I can honestly say that if you do business with me you will not bedisappointed. I have many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's message below is civil and he takes a position and view that isdifferent than mine. However, his post is a good example how we can discussan issue without the namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn'tdone business with me and it's second hand info so again, I feel that thewhole truth was not included in his post. If anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact medirectly, OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem that youfeel you have. If I fail to resolve the issue, then take it to the court ofpublic opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister reallywant to read about order fulfillment and customer service issues... Ormaybe they do... this is a classic example of growing pains of a newbusiness. As far as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president of aboard of Realtors, Realtor of the Year, past president of a Lions Club, 1stVP of a Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of aChamber of Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgagecorporation employing over 50 people. I have personally originated over $20million/month in home loans which is more than most credit unions with astaff of 10 people. I find it funny that people are accusing me of ethicalproblems on $25.00 items when I've been trusted with hundreds of millions ofdollars in the past. I have been an arbitrator for ethics and professionalstandards hearings where I was one of the judges (arbitrators)... I've alsobeen a 1031 exchange accomodator where I would hold several hundredthousands of dollars in my bank account until my client finds a new propertyto complete his exchange. My resume is many pages long... but if people aregoing to make wild accuasations, then I guess the audience should know alittle more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run off with your$50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people out ofmoney... In the many thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions mycompaniesor I have represented, I was sued twice and both cases I won. Both caseswhere transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that theagents worked for me. One was a sue everyone case and the plaintiffapologized for naming me and they later dropped my company from the suit,the other was a small claims suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrongand lost during a small claims court. Most would have settled to make eithergo away but I'm not willing to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the list... I apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, butif people are going to post messages such as the one below, I feel compelledto reply to tell the whole story. I know this was far more than you neededto know. Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers.Perhaps they have on this list.One gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel lether bid $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. Ishowed her the same book on another site. Another friend of oursbought a book from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it fromthem. He promised thread for the inconvenience but convenientlyforgot the thread. He thinks because a live author signs it , thebook has increased value. Kept making excuses etc. Don't mentionlawyer to me as I relaying facts I have observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have apologized for breaking therules and let it drop. The ethical result speaks for itself. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com The = bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered to sell it to her the = don't remember the actual price). She found a used copy for $7 and = CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HER OBLIGATION TO BUY THE BOOK FROMME. It = my fault that a person feels an item is worth more than the retail = found it for a lower price, but I honored my obligation and paid for the = that I bid on as I honor my commitments but I don't hold others to my = she was wrong for backing out of her obligation to buy the book but I = feedback for her non-payment as she was a friend of so-and-so. (I = WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The = was the guy bought a book from me and I accidently shipped him the wrong = more expensive book I might add). So apparently his book got shipped to = so I could only send him a letter which he never replied to. Finally = extended period of time, the other buyer contacted me and denied that he = buyer... I made = mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... I never received the = book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that got screwed on that = item and didn't send it... then certainly I would make good on any = made... but that transaction was awhile ago and I don't recall those = It's = should be at issue on those two orders, but logistics on one and I = ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DO BUSINESS =WITH. are second hand info and are half truths. I will concede that I'm not = and that I've made a few shipping errors... ask Peter M... I shipped him = months I've gone from shipping 1-3 orders per day to 15-30 orders per = will not argue that I've made a few shipping errors along the journey. = At any = fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm only human and am = perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send out order slowly or send = Right = business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1 business day and = is that I have shipped items too quickly and when a person is buying = items from me at auction, he doesn't notify me and so I've already = first items so that we cannot combine them and save him some money up... autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell for more = Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the double shipping = compensate the author for taking the time to signing his books and = ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books are such a niche market, = number of books printed is usually small so a small number of books with = is. Rex, I = many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's = is civil and he takes a position and view that is different than = However, his post is a good example how we can discuss an issue without = namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn't done business with = it's second hand info so again, I feel that the whole truth was not = his post. anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact me = OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem that you feel = opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister really want = business. as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president of a = Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of a Chamber = Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgage corporation = over 50 people. I have personally million/month = funny that people are accusing me of ethical problems on $25.00 items = been trusted with hundreds of millions of dollars in the past. I have = arbitrator for ethics and professional standards hearings where I was = judges (arbitrators)... I've also been a 1031 exchange accomodator where = hold several hundred thousands of dollars in my bank account until my = finds a new property to complete his exchange. My resume is many pages = but if people are going to make wild accuasations, then I guess the = should know a little more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run = your $50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people = money... thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions my companies or I = transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that the agents = me and they later dropped my company from the suit, the other was a = suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrong and lost during a small = to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the = apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, but if people are = post messages such as the one below, I feel compelled to reply to tell = know. Respectfully, Leewww.vfish.net TutorSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 vfish@vFish.net; rcurry@ttlc.net; rodSubject: RE: BAMBOO: = Fiction & FlyrodsI have two experiences= Darrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on = eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. = gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel let = $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. I showed her = from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it from them. He = thread for the inconvenience but conveniently forgot the thread. = because a live author signs it , the book has increased value. = making excuses etc. Don't mention lawyer to me as I relaying facts = observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have = itself. http://About.com from vfish@vFish.net Tue Jun 12 17:40:18 2001 f5CMeIZ06496 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:40:10 -0500 "rod" Subject: RE: Customer Service, order fulfillment This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Attached is my email conversations with the person you are referring to....The name has been deleted to protect the innocent. I'm sorry Rex, but you are VERY wrong and you should not be calling peoplea liar unless you have all the facts. The facts prove you are wrong. You oweme an apology. I wonder if you are able to admit your mistakes. Second hand means you were not directly involved in the transaction. Youwere not the buyer, therefore, your info is second hand. I'm very disappointed CB gave you the impression that I did not treat herfairly, I think any reasonable person would agree with me after reading theemails below, that I bent over backwards to be nice to her. The rules of anauction is that if you bid, you must buy. Clearly I let her out of thedeal, and promised to not give her any negative feedback which, most sellersless tolerant that I, would have dinged her. Please read the emails and thentell me I lied. When I make a mistake, I'm the first to admit my mistakes... But I willdefend myself to the nth degree when I'm right... Oh well, your first message was civil and non-offensive enough... Jeez, Idon't know what you are trying to prove by flaming people. Especially whenyou are wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself. I hope my many friends onthe list will not buy into any of the misinformation being spouted here... Again, if anyone wants to flame me or anyone on the list, you should reallyhave your facts correct otherwise you're wasting everyone's time and youaredamaging my reputation which I feel is VERY valuable to me. PLEASE, take this flaming offlist, my patience is beginning to wear thinwith all these false statements... Regards, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Thank God for email... The attorneys on the list should tell thesepeople they are really asking for trouble if they make slanderous/libelousremarks in writing that are clearly false. Help! I've got packages to shipand I'm really too busy for this bunk. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: RE: Congratulations! You have won Mills, Leonard, Chubb BambooFly Rod Catalogs Hello, You are welcome to cancel the purchase of this book. I will not give you badfeedback. Actually I paid $68.00 for a copy of this book last year beforebecoming a book dealer. This book has sold for over $90.00 at auction. I started this auction at $9.99, you were the one that determined how muchthe book was worth. If you wish to complete the purchase, you can pay $18.95 plus $5 s/h/i for atotal of $23.95. Either way, please tell me what you decide. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: RE: Congratulations! You have won Mills, Leonard, ChubbBamboo Fly Rod Catalogs Mr Lee I have found this book for $7 at halfcom from another seller. Isn't $36awfully high ? Would you put in bad feedback on me if I asked you to sell it to the nexthighest bidder or give me a more reasonable price ? Just seeking informaitonI am not trying to force you to do anything. CB -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment Nice Words. I read them as salesmamship and PR. I watched the sceneosdirected as they happened. Sorry it is not second hand. You did notoffer anyone the book at a lower price. She had to ask to get out ofthe deal. So you lied to me in the email.What you did wrong was you broke the rules on this listserve. Youlied to everyone saying all your customers were satisfied. I have two(and only know of two) of your customers who recommend against you.I highly recommend you apologise and let it drop. I didn't even readall the PR. I know better than to be pursuaded by words alone. I havedirectly viewed your actions. Answering all these points is wastedtime by me becuase I never buy ino that kind of flim flam retoric. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com conversations with the person you are referring to.... The name has been = but you are VERY wrong and you should not be calling people a liar = have all the facts. The facts prove you are wrong. You owe me an = I wonder if you are able to admit your mistakes. Second = therefore, your info is second hand. I'm = disappointed CB gave you the impression that I did not treat her fairly, = any reasonable person would agree with me after reading the emails = bent over backwards to be nice to her. The rules of an auction is that = give her any negative feedback which, most sellers less tolerant that I, = lied. When I make a mistake, I'm the first to admit my = right... Oh = message was civil and non-offensive enough... Jeez, I don't know what = trying to prove by flaming people. Especially when you are wrong. You = ashamed of yourself. I hope my many friends on the list will not buy = the misinformation being spouted here... Again, = wants to flame me or anyone on the list, you should really have your = correct otherwise you're wasting everyone's time and you are damaging my = me. PLEASE, take this flaming offlist, my patience is = wear thin with all these false statements... Regards, Darrell Lee they are really asking for trouble if they make slanderous/libelous = writing that are clearly false. Help! I've got packages to ship and I'm = too busy for this bunk. -----Original =Message----- BxxxxxSubject: RE: = Congratulations! You have won Mills, Leonard, Chubb Bamboo Fly Rod Catalogs = Hello,You are welcome tocancel = of this book. I will not give you bad feedback. Actually I paid $68.00 = copy of this book last year before becoming a book dealer. This book has = I started this auctionat =$9.99, you were the one thatdetermined how = book was worth.If you wish to complete= you can pay $18.95 plus $5 s/h/i for a total of $23.95. Either way, = me what you decide.Darrell-----Original =Message-----From: Cxxxxxxx =BxxxxxxSent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 darrell@vFish.netSubject: Re: RE: Congratulations! You have won = Catalogs Mr Lee I have found this book= halfcom from another seller. Isn't $36 awfully high ? Would you put in bad = I asked you to sell it to the next highest bidder or give me a more = price ? Just seeking informaiton I am not trying to force you to do = CB TutorSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:29 fulfillment Nice Words. I read them as salesmamship and PR. I = the sceneos directed as they happened. Sorry it is not second = You did not offer anyone the book at a lower price. She had to = you did wrong was you broke the rules on this listserve. You = everyone saying all your customers were satisfied. I have two = only know of two) of your customers who recommend against you. = highly recommend you apologise and let it drop. I didn't even read = retoric. from mgjanik@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 18:21:50 2001 f5CNLoZ07592 2001 16:21:49 PDT Subject: The integrity of Darrell Lee 992388109=:27863" --0-1804289383-992388109=:27863 I just have to weigh in on this, sorry for the bandwith for those of you whothink its wasted space. I bid a large sum of money on an ebay auction thatDarrell was running. Within the duration of the auction I had a family crisisand was not able to pay out at the end. Darrell excused me from myobligation and even gave me good feedback. I might add that he took afinancial hit because ebay charges the seller for completed auctions. Shortlyafter, I came into some money and ordered 10 culms of bamboo and someother supplies from Darrell. The culms have come up late and Darrell hasupgraded me to all top of the line cane because of the delay. He is a stand-up guy in my book and a real gentleman when it comes to doing business. Asfar as ebay goes, you make the bid, nobody twists your arm, if you find outlater that its worth less, thats the way it goes, no sense in whining about it! Thats what makes the world go round. The seller is not responsible for whatthe bidder!'s final price is, he or she is just making the item availiable and there shouldbe no guilt in that. ---------------------------------Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.--0-1804289383- 992388109=:27863 I just have to weigh in on this, sorry for the bandwith for those of you who that he took a financial hit because ebay charges the seller for completed come up late and Darrell has upgraded me to all top of the line cane because bid, nobody twists your arm, if you find out later that its worth less, thats The seller is not responsible for what the bidder's final price is, he or she isjust making the item availiable and there should be no guilt inthat.Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! MailPersonal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.--0-1804289383-992388109=:27863-- from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Tue Jun 12 18:24:56 2001 f5CNOtZ07767 f5CNOmQ171684;Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:24:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment A note to AllI have had 6 to 8 dealings with Darrell lee in last twoyears, He has been fare with me every Time, books, thread, and caneTony Larson----- Original Message ----- Subject: Customer Service, order fulfillment The gal was a high bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered tosellit to her the book at the retail price of $18.95 instead of the higherauction price of $37-47 (I don't remember the actual price). She found aused copy for $7 and apparently wanted me to match taht price which Icouldnot and would not do, SO I CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HEROBLIGATION TOBUY THE BOOK from ME. It is not my fault that a person feels an item isworth more than the retail price. I had bought a used copy of this bookfor$68 or around there. But, I too later found it for a lower price, but Ihonored my obligation and paid for the book that I bid on as I honor mycommitments but I don't hold others to my same standards. I certainlydidn't want to sell a new book to her below my cost for a used book pricewhich is below wholesale. I believe she was wrong for backing out of herobligation to buy the book but I did not hold her to her obligation. Ialsotold her I would not post a negative feedback for her non-payment as shewasa friend of so-and-so. (I wouldn't have anyway as I don't want to be anegative person). I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The other example was the guy bought a book from me and I accidentlyshippedhim the wrong book (a more expensive book I might add). So apparently hisbook got shipped to the other person. That venue I used does not give outthe buyers email address so I could only send him a letter which he neverreplied to. Finally have an extended period of time, the other buyercontacted me and denied that he received the wrong book. So, I shippedthecorrect book to your friend and asked that he ship the wrong book to theother buyer... I made an honest mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... Ineverreceived the other book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that gotscrewed on that deal... but yes, your guy did get his book from me and ittook far longer than normal. I also paid him for the shipping costs toforward the book to the other buyer. I'll have to contact him because ifIpromised him a free item and didn't send it... then certainly I would makegood on any promise made... but that transaction was awhile ago and Idon'trecall those details... It's not ethics that should be at issue on those two orders, but logisticson one and I should be exonerated on the other... IF ANYTHING, YOUR FIRSTEXAMPLE SHOULD ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DOBUSINESS WITH. Please, your stories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors...askPeter M... I shipped him two of the same books... I have been going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 ordersperday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send outorder slowly or send the wrong items... but, stuff happens... Right now, my order fulfillment is running approximately 90% of my ordersship within 2 business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1businessday and 25% ship on the same day as the order has been received. Lately,one of my problems is that I have shipped items too quickly and when aperson is buying multiple items from me at auction, he doesn't notify meandso I've already shipped his first items so that we cannot combine them andsave him some money on shipping. But, at the current pace, I cannotaffordto slow down my order fulfillment as I cannot allow my shipments to getbacked up... Regarding autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell formore when autographed by the author. They also often cost me more aswellsuch as Sinclair's books because I had to pay to have them shipped fromColorado to Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the doubleshipping plus compensate the author for taking the time to signing hisbooksand repackage and ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books aresuchaniche market, the number of books printed is usually small so a smallnumberof books with an autograph commands a much higher price. That's just thewayit is. Rex, I can honestly say that if you do business with me you will not bedisappointed. I have many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's message below is civil and he takes a position and view that isdifferent than mine. However, his post is a good example how we candiscussan issue without the namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn'tdone business with me and it's second hand info so again, I feel that thewhole truth was not included in his post. If anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact medirectly, OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem thatyoufeel you have. If I fail to resolve the issue, then take it to the courtofpublic opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister reallywant to read about order fulfillment and customer service issues... Ormaybe they do... this is a classic example of growing pains of a newbusiness. As far as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president ofaboard of Realtors, Realtor of the Year, past president of a Lions Club,1stVP of a Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of aChamber of Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgagecorporation employing over 50 people. I have personally originated over$20million/month in home loans which is more than most credit unions with astaff of 10 people. I find it funny that people are accusing me ofethicalproblems on $25.00 items when I've been trusted with hundreds of millionsofdollars in the past. I have been an arbitrator for ethics and professionalstandards hearings where I was one of the judges (arbitrators)... I'vealsobeen a 1031 exchange accomodator where I would hold several hundredthousands of dollars in my bank account until my client finds a newpropertyto complete his exchange. My resume is many pages long... but if peoplearegoing to make wild accuasations, then I guess the audience should know alittle more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run off with your$50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people outofmoney... In the many thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions mycompaniesor I have represented, I was sued twice and both cases I won. Both caseswhere transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that theagents worked for me. One was a sue everyone case and the plaintiffapologized for naming me and they later dropped my company from thesuit,the other was a small claims suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrongand lost during a small claims court. Most would have settled to makeeithergo away but I'm not willing to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the list... I apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, butif people are going to post messages such as the one below, I feelcompelledto reply to tell the whole story. I know this was far more than youneededto know. Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers.Perhaps they have on this list.One gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel lether bid $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. Ishowed her the same book on another site. Another friend of oursbought a book from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it fromthem. He promised thread for the inconvenience but convenientlyforgot the thread. He thinks because a live author signs it , thebook has increased value. Kept making excuses etc. Don't mentionlawyer to me as I relaying facts I have observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have apologized for breaking therules and let it drop. The ethical result speaks for itself. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The = bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered to sell it to her the = don't remember the actual price). She found a used copy for $7 and = CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HER OBLIGATION TO BUY THE BOOK FROMME. It = my fault that a person feels an item is worth more than the retail = found it for a lower price, but I honored my obligation and paid for the = that I bid on as I honor my commitments but I don't hold others to my = she was wrong for backing out of her obligation to buy the book but I = feedback for her non-payment as she was a friend of so-and-so. (I = WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The = was the guy bought a book from me and I accidently shipped him the wrong= more expensive book I might add). So apparently his book got shipped to = = so I could only send him a letter which he never replied to. Finally = extended period of time, the other buyer contacted me and denied that he= buyer... I made = mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... I never received the = book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that got screwed on that = item and didn't send it... then certainly I would make good on any = made... but that transaction was awhile ago and I don't recall those = It's = should be at issue on those two orders, but logistics on one and I = ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DO BUSINESS =WITH. are second hand info and are half truths. I will concede that I'm not = and that I've made a few shipping errors... ask Peter M... I shipped him = months I've gone from shipping 1-3 orders per day to 15-30 orders per = will not argue that I've made a few shipping errors along the journey. = At any = fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm only human and am = perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send out order slowly or send = Right = business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1 business day and = is that I have shipped items too quickly and when a person is buying = items from me at auction, he doesn't notify me and so I've already = first items so that we cannot combine them and save him some money up... autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell for more = Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the double shipping = compensate the author for taking the time to signing his books and = ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books are such a niche market,= number of books printed is usually small so a small number of books with = is. Rex, I = many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's = is civil and he takes a position and view that is different than = However, his post is a good example how we can discuss an issue without = namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn't done business with = it's second hand info so again, I feel that the whole truth was not = his post. anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact me = OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem that you feel = opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister really want = business. as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president of a = Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of a Chamber = Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgage corporation= over 50 people. I have personally million/month = funny that people are accusing me of ethical problems on $25.00 items = been trusted with hundreds of millions of dollars in the past. I have = arbitrator for ethics and professional standards hearings where I was = judges (arbitrators)... I've also been a 1031 exchange accomodator where= hold several hundred thousands of dollars in my bank account until my = finds a new property to complete his exchange. My resume is many pages = but if people are going to make wild accuasations, then I guess the = should know a little more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run = your $50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people= money... thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions my companies or I = transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that the agents = me and they later dropped my company from the suit, the other was a = suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrong and lost during a small = to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the = apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, but if people are = post messages such as the one below, I feel compelled to reply to tell = know. Lee TutorSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 vfish@vFish.net; rcurry@ttlc.net; rodSubject: RE: BAMBOO:= Fiction & FlyrodsI have twoexperiences = Darrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on = edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. = gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel let = $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. I showed her = = from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it from them. He = thread for the inconvenience but conveniently forgot the thread. = because a live author signs it , the book has increased value. = making excuses etc. Don't mention lawyer to me as I relaying facts= observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have = itself. http://About.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jun 12 18:57:25 2001 f5CNvOZ08427 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:57:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment Darrell,I'm very sorry I started all this. Please accept my apologies. EVERYONE --Let's take it off-list from here on out. Yours,Harry Boyd--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from timklein@qwest.net Tue Jun 12 19:34:10 2001 f5D0Y9Z09006 (63.225.242.122) Subject: Re: 10 commandments Don wrote: #12 - Don't set the hook on Kayaks. Especially when it's a fabric covered kayak that you happen to be fishingfrom... ---Tim from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jun 12 19:34:57 2001 f5D0YuZ09124 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment --part1_6f.169e526e.28580f27_boundary In a message dated 6/12/01 2:48:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,vfish@vFish.net writes: Please, your stories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors...askPeter M... I shipped him two of the same books... I have been going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 ordersperday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send outorder slowly or send the wrong items... I know that Darrell has recently purchased a program to help him track his customer's orders because I was the person that told him about theprogram. Now get off Darrell's case. Just how anyone can be so stupid to bid too $#%$#%$% much for an item is beyond me. If you don't know the retail price of the item, don't blame the seller. There's no auction that has an IQ test required before you bid - too bad. Maybe eBay should require that. That's our PC horse-$hit "you're never to blame for your own stupidy"showing up at it's finest. I was taught a deal is a deal - my handshake is my bond. Plus don't whine about getting screwed if it's your own dumb (I was going to say damn) fault for overbiding. There is an expression that's not used much these days. "My fault - no excuse." No, now it's I didn't know drinking nine quarts of booze would cause me to drive over the streetlight - it's not my fault. I didn't know smoking 3 packs a day for 40 years would cause cancer. The package didn't have my namelisted as the person that WOULD get cancer. I should sue booze, tobacco,McDonalds etc etc. Learn to think, learn to have moral values. Learn to have moral values even when nobody's looking. Grow up people, by adults. Oh, and it's not my fault that I'm writing this. So please don't e-mail me. E- mail the freaking California governor - it's not his fault we don't have electricy - it not anyone's fault for being a horse's behind. Don Burns --part1_6f.169e526e.28580f27_boundary In a message dated6/12/01 2:48:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vfish@vFish.net writes: Please, yourstories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors...ask going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 ordersperday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to sendout happens I know that Darrell has recently purchased a program to help him trackhis customer's orders because I was the person that told him about theprogram. Now get off Darrell's case. Just how anyone can be so stupid to bid too $#%$#%$% much for anitem is beyond me. If you don't know the retail price of the item, don't blamethe seller. There's no auction that has an IQ test required before you bid - too bad. Maybe eBay should require that. That's our PC horse-$hit "you're never to blame for your own stupidy"showing up at it's finest. I was taught a deal is a deal - my handshake is mybond. Plus don't whine about getting screwed if it's your own dumb (I wasgoing to say damn) fault for overbiding. There is an expression that's not used much these days. "My fault - no excuse." No, now it's I didn't know drinking nine quarts of booze would cause meto drive over the streetlight - it's not my fault. I didn't know smoking 3packs a day for 40 years would cause cancer. The package didn't have myname listed as the person that WOULD get cancer. I should sue booze, tobacco,McDonalds etc etc. Learn to think, learn to have moral values. Learn to have moral valueseven when nobody's looking. Grow up people, by adults. Oh, and it's not my fault that I'm writing this. So please don't e-mail me. E- mail the freaking California governor - it's not his fault we don't have electricy - it not anyone's fault for being a horse's behind. Don Burns --part1_6f.169e526e.28580f27_boundary-- from rvenneri@ulster.net Tue Jun 12 19:48:15 2001 f5D0mEZ09505 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment DARLENE URBANSKI wrote: A note to AllI have had 6 to 8 dealings with Darrell lee in last twoyears, He has been fare with me every Time, books, thread, and caneTony Larson----- Original Message -----From: Darrell Lee Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:47 PMSubject: Customer Service, order fulfillment The gal was a high bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered tosellit to her the book at the retail price of $18.95 instead of the higherauction price of $37-47 (I don't remember the actual price). She found aused copy for $7 and apparently wanted me to match taht price which Icouldnot and would not do, SO I CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HEROBLIGATION TOBUY THE BOOK from ME. It is not my fault that a person feels an item isworth more than the retail price. I had bought a used copy of this bookfor$68 or around there. But, I too later found it for a lower price, but Ihonored my obligation and paid for the book that I bid on as I honor mycommitments but I don't hold others to my same standards. I certainlydidn't want to sell a new book to her below my cost for a used book pricewhich is below wholesale. I believe she was wrong for backing out of herobligation to buy the book but I did not hold her to her obligation. Ialsotold her I would not post a negative feedback for her non-payment as shewasa friend of so-and-so. (I wouldn't have anyway as I don't want to be anegative person). I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The other example was the guy bought a book from me and I accidentlyshippedhim the wrong book (a more expensive book I might add). So apparentlyhisbook got shipped to the other person. That venue I used does not giveoutthe buyers email address so I could only send him a letter which he neverreplied to. Finally have an extended period of time, the other buyercontacted me and denied that he received the wrong book. So, I shippedthecorrect book to your friend and asked that he ship the wrong book to theother buyer... I made an honest mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... Ineverreceived the other book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that gotscrewed on that deal... but yes, your guy did get his book from me and ittook far longer than normal. I also paid him for the shipping costs toforward the book to the other buyer. I'll have to contact him because ifIpromised him a free item and didn't send it... then certainly I would makegood on any promise made... but that transaction was awhile ago and Idon'trecall those details... It's not ethics that should be at issue on those two orders, but logisticson one and I should be exonerated on the other... IF ANYTHING, YOURFIRSTEXAMPLE SHOULD ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DOBUSINESS WITH. Please, your stories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors...askPeter M... I shipped him two of the same books... I have been going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 ordersperday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send outorder slowly or send the wrong items... but, stuff happens... Right now, my order fulfillment is running approximately 90% of myordersship within 2 business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1businessday and 25% ship on the same day as the order has been received. Lately,one of my problems is that I have shipped items too quickly and when aperson is buying multiple items from me at auction, he doesn't notify meandso I've already shipped his first items so that we cannot combine themandsave him some money on shipping. But, at the current pace, I cannotaffordto slow down my order fulfillment as I cannot allow my shipments to getbacked up... Regarding autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell formore when autographed by the author. They also often cost me more aswellsuch as Sinclair's books because I had to pay to have them shipped fromColorado to Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay thedoubleshipping plus compensate the author for taking the time to signing hisbooksand repackage and ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books aresuchaniche market, the number of books printed is usually small so a smallnumberof books with an autograph commands a much higher price. That's justthewayit is. Rex, I can honestly say that if you do business with me you will not bedisappointed. I have many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's message below is civil and he takes a position and view that isdifferent than mine. However, his post is a good example how we candiscussan issue without the namecalling and heated emotions. However, hehasn'tdone business with me and it's second hand info so again, I feel that thewhole truth was not included in his post. If anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact medirectly, OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem thatyoufeel you have. If I fail to resolve the issue, then take it to the courtofpublic opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister reallywant to read about order fulfillment and customer service issues... Ormaybe they do... this is a classic example of growing pains of a newbusiness. As far as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president ofaboard of Realtors, Realtor of the Year, past president of a Lions Club,1stVP of a Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of aChamber of Commerce and former owner of a real estate and amortgagecorporation employing over 50 people. I have personally originated over$20million/month in home loans which is more than most credit unions with astaff of 10 people. I find it funny that people are accusing me ofethicalproblems on $25.00 items when I've been trusted with hundreds ofmillionsofdollars in the past. I have been an arbitrator for ethics and professionalstandards hearings where I was one of the judges (arbitrators)... I'vealsobeen a 1031 exchange accomodator where I would hold several hundredthousands of dollars in my bank account until my client finds a newpropertyto complete his exchange. My resume is many pages long... but if peoplearegoing to make wild accuasations, then I guess the audience should know alittle more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run off with your$50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people outofmoney... In the many thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions mycompaniesor I have represented, I was sued twice and both cases I won. Both caseswhere transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that theagents worked for me. One was a sue everyone case and the plaintiffapologized for naming me and they later dropped my company from thesuit,the other was a small claims suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrongand lost during a small claims court. Most would have settled to makeeithergo away but I'm not willing to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the list... I apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, butif people are going to post messages such as the one below, I feelcompelledto reply to tell the whole story. I know this was far more than youneededto know. Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers.Perhaps they have on this list.One gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel lether bid $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. Ishowed her the same book on another site. Another friend of oursbought a book from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it fromthem. He promised thread for the inconvenience but convenientlyforgot the thread. He thinks because a live author signs it , thebook has increased value. Kept making excuses etc. Don't mentionlawyer to me as I relaying facts I have observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have apologized for breaking therules and let it drop. The ethical result speaks for itself. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The = bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered to sell it to her the = don't remember the actual price). She found a used copy for $7 and = wanted me to match taht price which I could not and would not do, SO CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HER OBLIGATION TO BUY THE BOOK from ME. It = my fault that a person feels an item is worth more than the retail = found it for a lower price, but I honored my obligation and paid for the = that I bid on as I honor my commitments but I don't hold others to my = = she was wrong for backing out of her obligation to buy the book but I = feedback for her non-payment as she was a friend of so-and-so. (I = WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The = was the guy bought a book from me and I accidently shipped him thewrong = more expensive book I might add). So apparently his book got shipped to= email = so I could only send him a letter which he never replied to. Finally = extended period of time, the other buyer contacted me and denied thathe = buyer... I made = mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... I never received the = book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that got screwed on that = = item and didn't send it... then certainly I would make good on any = made... but that transaction was awhile ago and I don't recall those = It's = should be at issue on those two orders, but logistics on one and I = ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DO BUSINESS =WITH. are second hand info and are half truths. I will concede that I'm not = and that I've made a few shipping errors... ask Peter M... I shipped him = months I've gone from shipping 1-3 orders per day to 15-30 orders per = will not argue that I've made a few shipping errors along the journey. = At any = fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm only human and am = perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send out order slowly or send = Right = = business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1 business day and= = is that I have shipped items too quickly and when a person is buying = items from me at auction, he doesn't notify me and so I've already = first items so that we cannot combine them and save him some money up... autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell for more = = Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the double shipping = compensate the author for taking the time to signing his books and = ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books are such a nichemarket, = number of books printed is usually small so a small number of books with= is. Rex, I = many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's = is civil and he takes a position and view that is different than = However, his post is a good example how we can discuss an issue without= namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn't done business with= it's second hand info so again, I feel that the whole truth was not = his post. anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact me = OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem that you feel= opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister really want = business. as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president of a = = Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of a Chamber = Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgagecorporation = over 50 people. I have personally million/month = = funny that people are accusing me of ethical problems on $25.00 items = been trusted with hundreds of millions of dollars in the past. I have = arbitrator for ethics and professional standards hearings where I was = judges (arbitrators)... I've also been a 1031 exchange accomodatorwhere = hold several hundred thousands of dollars in my bank account until my = finds a new property to complete his exchange. My resume is many pages= but if people are going to make wild accuasations, then I guess the = should know a little more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run = your $50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to schemepeople = money... thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions my companies or I = represented, I was sued twice and both cases I won. Both cases transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that the agents = me and they later dropped my company from the suit, the other was a = suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrong and lost during a small = = to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the = apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, but if people are = post messages such as the one below, I feel compelled to reply to tell = know. Lee TutorSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 vfish@vFish.net; rcurry@ttlc.net; rodSubject: RE:BAMBOO: = Fiction & FlyrodsI have twoexperiences = Darrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on= edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. = gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel let = $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. I showed her= bought = from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it from them. He = thread for the inconvenience but conveniently forgot the thread. = because a live author signs it , the book has increased value. = making excuses etc. Don't mention lawyer to me as I relayingfacts = observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have = itself. Sign up for a free About Email account http://About.com I also have had dealings with Darrell. I even sent him a large number ofreel seats to show at a gathering and He has always been fair andhonest. But make no mistake he is a business man and like all businessmen want to make money. Who doesnt't right. I myself don't think Darrellhas ever misused the list. Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from dpeaston@wzrd.com Tue Jun 12 19:50:41 2001 f5D0ofZ09674 Subject: Re: ethics I too agree with Don. I had a small problem with a delay on a book whichDarrell fixed pronto! Also when I ordered small items that cost less thanthe shipping charge. He included twice my order at the same price. I have never met the man but I would order from him again anytime.-Doug At 05:29 PM 6/12/01 -0400, none wrote: I also couldn't disagree more. I have had the priviledge ofemail dealings with Darrell and have met him in person. A first classguy! Marty Don DeLoach wrote: ArialI have two experiences withDarrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. >://About.comArialI couldn't disagree more. Iordered cork from Darrell a few months back. It arrived quickly and with afew goodies inside--a couple of leaders, burl rings, and even some beautifulrod winding thread. When I ask him about it I was thinking he would say thatsomeone elses stuff got put in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a truenice guy throwing in some freebies--and I had never ordered from himbefore.ArialI will order from Darrell againwithout hesitation.ArialDon DeLoach from jfreeman@cyberport.com Tue Jun 12 20:34:23 2001 f5D1YMZ10253 mail.cyberport.com Subject: Re: Southwest Colorado Jeremy, The San Juan is running at 4,500 cfm right now and is not expected to dropany before the 17th. That's really fast to be trying wade fishing - we seegood fishing from 500 to 1,000 cfm. We floated a couple of weeks ago at5,000 cfm, and the fishing was very good. I saw no waders during the day - amost unusual day. If you do decide to come on down, go to one of the shopsand talk with them for information on where to go. And be careful. Peopledie at these flows. If you can afford a guide, it may well be worth it rightnow. Contact me offline for more info. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Southwest Colorado Hello all, In a couple of weeks I'll be traveling to the Durango area to visit afriend. If I say the right things and show up with the right flowers, shemight let me spend a morning or two on the local waters. I'll make everyeffort to work the San Juan, but I'd appreciate any advice on other streamsin the area. Thanks in advance for any help. -Jeremy from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 20:46:49 2001 f5D1kmZ10708 2001 18:46:43 PDT Subject: Re: Southwest Colorado If all goes according to the government's plan (big if), the San Juanwill be dropped to around 550 cfs on June 27th. The website forAbe's has updates. --- Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote:Jeremy, The San Juan is running at 4,500 cfm right now and is not expectedto dropany before the 17th. That's really fast to be trying wade fishing -we seegood fishing from 500 to 1,000 cfm. We floated a couple of weeksago at5,000 cfm, and the fishing was very good. I saw no waders duringthe day - amost unusual day. If you do decide to come on down, go to one ofthe shopsand talk with them for information on where to go. And be careful.Peopledie at these flows. If you can afford a guide, it may well be worthit rightnow. Contact me offline for more info. Jim----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:57 AMSubject: Southwest Colorado Hello all, In a couple of weeks I'll be traveling to the Durango area tovisit afriend. If I say the right things and show up with the rightflowers, shemight let me spend a morning or two on the local waters. I'll makeeveryeffort to work the San Juan, but I'd appreciate any advice on otherstreamsin the area. Thanks in advance for any help. -Jeremy __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jun 13 10:44:33 2001 f5DFiWZ23003 IAA17366 IAA15139 0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: tapers Does anybody have a taper program that graphs the taper ? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 13 12:08:57 2001 f5DH8uZ26037 Subject: twisting I experienced a good bit of twisting on this rod. Perhaps because I decided tofinish it "tiger striped". I did the striping with a fan nozzle torch in a spiralpattern around the culm. The strips proved really obstinate to straighteningalthough I finished them up last night. I bundled them up, pith to pith in threerows and wrapped Teflon tape around them at several places. When I hadthem tight, I noticed a definite twist in the entire group; about 10 to 20degrees. I took a couple of drill press vises and forced a counter twist of 90degrees in the butt section strip bundle and left it overnight. It appearedflat this morning but the tip section had worsened overnight. I did the sameas I had the butt section and left for work. I thought I would put them in theoven (assuming they are still straight) tonight and heat them hot enough tosoften the resin. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had observed this tendency to twistexcessively with tiger stripe flaming? Any good tips or fixes? At least I hadn't started planing! Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Jun 13 12:24:01 2001 f5DHO1Z26611 Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:23:55 -0700 HTTP; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:23:54 GMT Subject: 6 inch Atlas Lathe FILETIME=[9F60C9C0:01C0F42D] To RodmakersI have a 6 inch Atlas Lathe for sale. I will bring to Grayling during the gathering if wanted. Contact me off list for price and details.Jim_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 13 12:39:40 2001 f5DHddZ27304 Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:39:30 -0700 Subject: Re: twisting Onis,On the rods I'm working on now, three from one culm, there was a definitetwist in the strips. The culm was medium-flamed, but definitely not tigerstriped. I've done one tiger striped rod and had no particular twist problems. My theory is that bamboo's just a natural product. Sometimes you gettwists, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get big humps at nodes,sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get "W" bends at every node,sometimes at one node per section, and sometimes (so I'm told, but haven'tseen this in nearly 40 rods) no bends to speak of at the nodes. How are you planning to stagger the nodes? If the nodes oppose eachother, the twists may well work themselves out after having been heattreated. I've found that I can bind the roughed out sections very tightly andmanipulate the untapered hexagon's into almost any shape I want, thuseliminating twists. Let us know how you come out... Harry k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: I experienced a good bit of twisting on this rod. Perhaps because I decidedto finish it "tiger striped". --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 13 15:15:18 2001 f5DKFFZ03088 Subject: Re: twisting Hi Harry. Hi Jerry. It may not be as bad as it looked. What I did was laythree of the strips side by side with the pith up, then lay the other three pithdown on top of the first three. I bound this "plank" tightly with teflon tapeevery 6 or 8 inches. The twist was really noticeable like this. I took my twomachining vises and clamped one on each end of the "planks" so that it wastwisted by 90 degrees in the opposite direction of the twist I observed. After setting all night, the twist was apparently countered. I checked it atlunch and it was still flat but I don't know how long it will remain. If it is stillflat tonight, I will heat treat it until the bamboo relaxes. Then we will see. Ireally don't want to start over. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Jerry Madigan wrote:Onis, I have not had a culm twist that badly. If, after roughing andheat-treating, they still look very twisted, I would go to a new culmbefore spending all of the time planing and finishing. I have never regretted doing something oover yet. Jerry fbcwin@3g.quik.com wrote:Onis,On the rods I'm working on now, three from one culm, there was a definitetwist in the strips. The culm was medium-flamed, but definitely not tigerstriped. I've done one tiger striped rod and had no particular twist problems. My theory is that bamboo's just a natural product. Sometimes you gettwists, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get big humps at nodes,sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get "W" bends at every node,sometimes at one node per section, and sometimes (so I'm told, but haven'tseen this in nearly 40 rods) no bends to speak of at the nodes. How are you planning to stagger the nodes? If the nodes oppose eachother, the twists may well work themselves out after having been heattreated. I've found that I can bind the roughed out sections very tightly andmanipulate the untapered hexagon's into almost any shape I want, thuseliminating twists. Let us know how you come out... Harry k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: I experienced a good bit of twisting on this rod. Perhaps because I decidedto finish it "tiger striped". --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from mtbrown@sprynet.com Wed Jun 13 21:22:49 2001 f5E2MmZ09221 Subject: used planing form needed This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I have been doing rod restoration and now have read all the literature =and am ready to put my shop in order. The wife has me on a budget and =am looking for a used planing form.Any of you have one for sale? Please respond off list. Regards...............Mike I have been doing rod= now have read all the literature and am ready to put my shop in = wife has me on a budget and am looking for a used planing =form.Any of you have one Please respond off list. Regards...............Mike from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Jun 13 21:56:33 2001 f5E2uWZ09691 Subject: An Oman Just a share - and I hope not to stir the list further - BUT - I am at theClubhouse in Grayrock - teaching a rodmaking class - this evening a Hex fromthe Mill Pond flew into the clubhouse and landed on a set of planingforms -The Trout Gods have sent an Oman - I do hope that those planning onattending Grayrock 2001 come prepared - My best advise is to practiceafterdark manovers without the assistance of a flash light - aka - practice tyingon flys while hidden in a dark bedroom closet - playing hide and seek withthe neighbors dog after dark - and any other act of stelth that mightprepare you for this adventure - Say "Hexagenia Limbata" threes times fast Wayne from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jun 13 22:04:04 2001 f5E342Z09906 Subject: Re: An Oman --=====================_25474060==_.ALT I am going to start practicing right now. Looking forward to meeting you there. O man is right.Best regards,Bob At 10:50 PM 6/13/2001 -0400, Wayne Cattanach wrote:Just a share - and I hope not to stir the list further - BUT - I am at theClubhouse in Grayrock - teaching a rodmaking class - this evening a Hexfromthe Mill Pond flew into the clubhouse and landed on a set of planingforms -The Trout Gods have sent an Oman - I do hope that those planningonattending Grayrock 2001 come prepared - My best advise is to practiceafterdark manovers without the assistance of a flash light - aka - practice tyingon flys while hidden in a dark bedroom closet - playing hide and seek withthe neighbors dog after dark - and any other act of stelth that mightprepare you for this adventure - Say "Hexagenia Limbata" threes times fast Wayne Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_25474060==_.ALT I am going to start practicing right now. Looking forward to meeting youthere. O man is right.Best regards,BobAt 10:50 PM 6/13/2001 -0400, Wayne Cattanach wrote: to stir the list further - BUT - I am at theClubhouse in Grayrock - teaching a rodmaking class - this evening a Hexfromthe Mill Pond flew into the clubhouse and landed on a set of planing planning onattending Grayrock 2001 come prepared - My best advise is to practiceafterdark manovers without the assistance of a flash light - aka - practicetyingon flys while hidden in a dark bedroom closet - playing hide and seekwiththe neighbors dog after dark - and any other act of stelth thatmightprepare you for this adventure - Say "Hexagenia Limbata" threestimes fastWayne Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_25474060==_.ALT-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 13 23:24:35 2001 f5E4OYZ10949 Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:24:22 -0700 Subject: Re: An Oman Hi Wayne,The illustrious Mr. Crenshaw should be on his way soon. I'll miss you guysagain this year, but will be thinking about you while I'm pulling on a couple ofbig trout at the White River.Have fun, and tell everyone I said "Hello". Harry PS - I want you to show me that loop knot trick again, but really slow thistime (remember, I'm from the South -- we do things slowly down here)> Wayne Cattanach wrote: Just a share - and I hope not to stir the list further - BUT - I am at theClubhouse in Grayrock - teaching a rodmaking class - this evening a Hexfromthe Mill Pond flew into the clubhouse and landed on a set of planingforms -The Trout Gods have sent an Oman - I do hope that those planningonattending Grayrock 2001 come prepared - My best advise is to practiceafterdark manovers without the assistance of a flash light - aka - practice tyingon flys while hidden in a dark bedroom closet - playing hide and seek withthe neighbors dog after dark - and any other act of stelth that mightprepare you for this adventure - Say "Hexagenia Limbata" threes timesfast from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Jun 13 23:51:43 2001 f5E4pgZ11353 Subject: Re: An Oman It got HOT over here in Chicago today. All I can think about is how good the Hex will be this year, and I can't come :(.Good news I'll be flats fishing in Biscayne bay on the 22nd, got family matters to attend to in Miami and that means a guide trip while there!But can one of you guys think of me when you catch one of your 17"+ brownson a dry fly with a bamboo rod, please? And also a Spike burger too? My heart will be with you all... Not too tearfully, Rob Hoffhines from stpete@netten.net Thu Jun 14 01:54:51 2001 f5E6snZ12687 Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:54:37 -0500 Subject: Re: An Oman Wayne, I am packing and will arrive in Grayling on Friday. I am meeting Charlie Fridayafternoon at the Fly Factory. Will look you up then. It will be great to seeyou again and look forward to fishing the infamous Hex hatch. Rick C. Wayne Cattanach wrote: Just a share - and I hope not to stir the list further - BUT - I am at theClubhouse in Grayrock - teaching a rodmaking class - this evening a Hexfromthe Mill Pond flew into the clubhouse and landed on a set of planingforms -The Trout Gods have sent an Oman - I do hope that those planningonattending Grayrock 2001 come prepared - My best advise is to practiceafterdark manovers without the assistance of a flash light - aka - practice tyingon flys while hidden in a dark bedroom closet - playing hide and seek withthe neighbors dog after dark - and any other act of stelth that mightprepare you for this adventure - Say "Hexagenia Limbata" threes timesfast Wayne from angelruten@smile.ch Thu Jun 14 06:14:57 2001 f5EBEtZ14462 (MET DST) Subject: Swiss & Euro-Rodmakers Gathering Organization: atelier edelweiss This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi gang now it`s definitive we organize the 1`st Swiss & Euro Rodmakers =gathering at august 18/19 here in Switzerland. Everyone can participate, from newbies to old profs, especially european =rodmakers (yes, also we are "growing"...) Also you US-guys - if you are planing a trip to old merry europe, visit =us.The gath will be also a chance for retailers and suppliers in rodmaking =tools and parts, to have contact to new, potential customers from =Switzerland, Germany Italy and France. We search also for (some more) rodmakers, which are willing to show her =work and how they are working - no "trade secrets" are wanted, "only" a =first way to newbies how to make the first steps. The Gath has his own website: =http://members.tripod.de/rmgathering/id15.htm , in english and also in =german language. Interested rodmakers in showing work and tools contact me off-list =trough e-mail: angelruten@smile.ch, all others please trough the website =above. Thank you ver y much Stefan (now off-list) Hi gang now it`s definitive we organize the = & Euro Rodmakers gathering at august 18/19 here in =Switzerland. Everyone can participate, from newbies= "growing"...) Also you US-guys - if you are planing a= merry europe, visit us.The gath will be also a chance for = suppliers in rodmaking tools and parts, to have contact to new, = customers from Switzerland, Germany Italy and France. We search also for (some more) = willing to show her work and how they are working - no "trade secrets" = wanted, "only" a first way to newbies how to make the first =steps. The Gath has his own website: http://members.tri= in english and also in german language. Interested rodmakers in showing work = contact me off-list trough e-mail: angelruten@smile.ch, all others = trough the website above. Thank you ver y much Stefan (now off-list)= from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jun 14 07:36:02 2001 f5ECa1Z15215 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: An Oman Wayne,That's a good portent.Tony Young, my son Dan, and I will arrive on Saturday. See you then.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com Wayne Cattanach wrote: Just a share - and I hope not to stir the list further - BUT - I am at theClubhouse in Grayrock - teaching a rodmaking class - this evening a Hexfromthe Mill Pond flew into the clubhouse and landed on a set of planingforms -The Trout Gods have sent an Oman - I do hope that those planningonattending Grayrock 2001 come prepared - My best advise is to practiceafterdark manovers without the assistance of a flash light - aka - practice tyingon flys while hidden in a dark bedroom closet - playing hide and seek withthe neighbors dog after dark - and any other act of stelth that mightprepare you for this adventure - Say "Hexagenia Limbata" threes timesfast Wayne -- / from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 14 08:19:18 2001 f5EDJIZ16608 IAA11713 IAA19204 0500 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: tapers. Thanks a million all of you who sent me grafting programs. What I'm doing is, I've made a excel spread sheet that calculates the anvil height adjustment problem is that I have to start at the butt of the rod and work up to the tip graphs come out backwards. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Jun 14 09:20:03 2001 f5EEK2Z18621 (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA06158; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:19:48 - ETAsAhQtnlAhpdSKwaWT2rz8pEZEyEJhkAIUK8GE657HMbCHwrBHdJgBvOCI1N4= Subject: Hand Engraving Have cut thin wafers of stabilized mastadon ivory for cork stops on tworing reel seats. Also cut wafers to be inlet in the seat butt. So far Ihave not been able to find anyone that can hand engrave the clientsinitials in the butt. Does anybody do this work anymore? TIA Jerry Young from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Jun 14 12:44:28 2001 f5EHiRZ24970 KAA01365 Subject: dying silk thread Anyone have any words of wisdom about dying silk thread to achieve aparticular color and have it come out well? What about bleaching itfirst to remove the existing color? I'm interested in trying it, butconcerned the bleaching may affect the silk's integrity longer term. think "hex hatch"!! Go Grayrock! mac from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Thu Jun 14 13:51:48 2001 f5EIpmZ26810 Subject: Grayrock 2001 With all this talk about Grayrock, I just want to leteveryone know that it's not too late register for agreat weekend of Rodmaking; Rodmakers; Rods; and ofcourse a major dose of Fibs; Fairytales; and Fabrications! :-) If you're interested in attending, print off a registrationform from: http://www.curro.net and send it in. Also of note is two very worthwhile conservation projectsthat Rodmakers are supporting through their participation.First is the Ausable/Manistee river projects - check outthe "Makers Rod" at http://troutbums.com for more info. The second is the Boardman River Project being headed up http://www.gtii.com/summersrods/boardmanletter.htm Mike - looking forward to Grayrock - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from clmarcak@hotmail.com Thu Jun 14 16:34:18 2001 f5ELYHZ03214 Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:34:12 -0700 Subject: test FILETIME=[C0A302F0:01C0F519] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. test test from oakmere@carol.net Thu Jun 14 19:03:18 2001 f5F03HZ05526 Subject: RE: Customer Service etc Hi Folks: I agree with Harry that this discussion should go off list. Call each otheron the telephone and just talk or what ever. Tired of the banter. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from thogan@rochester.rr.com Thu Jun 14 19:48:01 2001 f5F0m0Z06073 f5F0kaf03394 Subject: Grayrock, Too late to register? Is it to late to register for Grayrock?ThanksTaylor from beadman@mac.com Thu Jun 14 20:28:40 2001 f5F1SdZ06638 ;Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:28:33 -0700 tri-fly@lambada.oit.unc.edu Subject: test message - please delete Sorry for bandwidth - one of my email accounts is down.Claude from timklein@qwest.net Thu Jun 14 20:46:55 2001 f5F1ktZ07029 Subject: Re: tapers. Patrick, Are you graphing the taper itself or stresses? If you're using the instructions I sent out to the handmill list the othernight and you want to graph out the taper (dimensions), all you need to dois graph the handmill setting numbers instead of the rod dimension. Thenumbers on the Y axis will be different, but you will get a graphicalrepresentation of the data that is exactly reversed from the taperdimensions. (I know it sounds funky but try graphing each set of numbersandyou'll see what I mean!) If you're graphing stresses (which is what I do), I just go out to an areaof the worksheet that isn't visible on my screen (e.g. go 20 or 30 columnsto the right) and transpose the numbers there and graph this block. Ifyou're ultimately going to print this sheet out, you'll need to exclude thisextra block from the print range. There's probably a way to reverse the Y axis numbers in Excel, but I can'tthink of how that might be done offhand. I use Microsoft Works at home andit isn't possible to reverse the axis in that program. I use Excel at workso I'll check tomorrow to see if reversing the axis is possible and e-mailyou with my findings. ---Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: tapers. Thanks a million all of you who sent me grafting programs. What I'm doingis, I've made a excel spread sheet that calculates the anvil heightadjustment for my morgan mill by just putting in the rod stationsdimensions. The problem is that I have to start at the butt of the rod andwork up to the tip for the formula to work, (I dont know squat aboutcomputers), and the graphs come out backwards. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from eamlee@email.msn.com Fri Jun 15 07:25:46 2001 f5FCPjZ13084 Fri, 15 Jun 2001 05:25:38 -0700 Subject: Heat treating oven problem FILETIME=[492C6680:01C0F596] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello again folks. I have a question regarding building an oven as per Waynes design. The =situation I have is this. I bought two 24" mica strip heaters from =Golden Witch. I'm not sure how I should wire these bad boys up. These =are the specs on the two heaters; CHROMALOX USA PGH. PA. HKL GT-2407 =120V 750W 285 C50601 236 214DP If I had the one long strip described in =Wayne and Howell's books, I wouldn't waste the bandwidth. However, when =it comes to electricity and copious amounts of heat, I want to be =super- sure. Thanks for the help folks. Eamon Lee, Hello again folks. I have a question regarding building an oven as per Waynes design. = situation I have is this. I bought two 24" mica strip heaters from = Witch. I'm not sure how I should wire these bad boys up. These are the = the two heaters; CHROMALOX USA PGH. PA. HKL GT-2407 120V750W = 236 214DP If I had the one long strip described in Wayne and = books, I wouldn't waste the bandwidth. However, when it comes to = folks. Eamon Lee, from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Jun 15 07:59:18 2001 f5FCxGZ13788 Subject: Re: Hand Engraving Hello, Jerry Yeah, real hand engraving [with a "graver"] is fast becoming a lost art,isn't it. If you just want initials and not finest English "rose and scroll", you cando it yourself after a wee bit of practice. You can get a graver and/orscribing tool from any supplier of jeweller's tools. In fact there was oneone the list the other night, and their catalogue had some that looked farmore classy than I have ever seen.You also need a template or other meansoftransferring your pattern to the Ni-Ag (sorry about that, Don; I know it isnot a silver alloy, but otherwise it means transcribing half the periodictable, and NiAg does get the message across]. Your results will not beperfect, but there are very few left in this old world who know goodengraving from bad - look how many people are quite happy to settle for asloppy job buzzed onto the metal by an amateur in a stall, in a mall, with adamned burr! Other than that, your best chance of finding a real craftsman is in thecustom firearms trade, which is in my not-so-humble opinion the last bastionof real engraving. Look at the side plates of a good double gun to see whatI mean. There is also a superb book by Mario Abbiatico of Armi Famars,called Modern Firearms Engraving, which is just so amazing. Stay happy Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Hand Engraving Have cut thin wafers of stabilized mastadon ivory for cork stops on tworing reel seats. Also cut wafers to be inlet in the seat butt. So far Ihave not been able to find anyone that can hand engrave the clientsinitials in the butt. Does anybody do this work anymore? TIA Jerry Young from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Fri Jun 15 08:27:58 2001 f5FDRvZ14495 Fri, 15 Jun 2001 06:27:52 -0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: Heat treating oven problem This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello Eamon, I would wire them in parallel, i.e. one wire from each element to =positive, one wire from each element to negative. regardsTom AusfeldRochester, NY Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 8:37 AMSubject: Heat treating oven problem Hello again folks. I have a question regarding building an oven as per Waynes design. The =situation I have is this. I bought two 24" mica strip heaters from =Golden Witch. I'm not sure how I should wire these bad boys up. These =are the specs on the two heaters; CHROMALOX USA PGH. PA. HKL GT-2407 =120V 750W 285 C50601 236 214DP If I had the one long strip described in =Wayne and Howell's books, I wouldn't waste the bandwidth. However, when =it comes to electricity and copious amounts of heat, I want to be =super- sure. Thanks for the help folks. Eamon Lee, Hello Eamon, I would wire them in parallel, i.e. one wire from = to positive, one wire from each element to negative. regardsTom AusfeldRochester, NY ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 =8:37 AMSubject: Heat treating oven =problem Hello again folks. I have a question regarding building an oven as per Waynes = situation I have is this. I bought two 24" mica strip heaters from = Witch. I'm not sure how I should wire these bad boys up. These are the = on the two heaters; CHROMALOX USA PGH. PA. HKL GT-2407120V = C50601 236 214DP If I had the one long strip described in = Howell's books, I wouldn't waste the bandwidth. However, when it comes = electricity and copious amounts of heat, I want to be super-sure. = the help folks. Eamon Lee, from Dennishigham@cs.com Fri Jun 15 09:01:53 2001 f5FE1qZ16237 Subject: Re: Grayrock, Too late to register? Taylor,It's never too late to register for Grayrock! We'll even take your money after it's over. You can print the registration form off of www.curro.net. Mail it to Mike "The list guy" Biondo. mike's address is on the registration form. See You At Grayrock, Dennis from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Fri Jun 15 10:48:03 2001 f5FFm2Z21795 Subject: Re: Heat treating oven problem This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Eamon, Wire each strip heater in parallel. Connect the conductor from the ="load" side of the thermostat to one terminal on each strip heater and =connect the neutral conductor to the other terminal on each strip =heater.You will have 1500 watts (+/- 13 amps) on your circuit which may create =problems on a normal household circuit. regards,losey Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 8:37 AMSubject: Heat treating oven problem Hello again folks. I have a question regarding building an oven as per Waynes design. The =situation I have is this. I bought two 24" mica strip heaters from =Golden Witch. I'm not sure how I should wire these bad boys up. These =are the specs on the two heaters; CHROMALOX USA PGH. PA. HKL GT-2407 =120V 750W 285 C50601 236 214DP If I had the one long strip described in =Wayne and Howell's books, I wouldn't waste the bandwidth. However, when =it comes to electricity and copious amounts of heat, I want to be =super- sure. Thanks for the help folks. Eamon Lee, Eamon, Wire each strip heater in = the conductor from the "load" side of the thermostat to one terminal on = strip heater and connect the neutral conductor to the other terminal on = strip heater.You will have 1500 watts (+/- 13 amps)= circuit which may create problems on a normal household =circuit. regards,losey----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 =8:37 AMSubject: Heat treating oven =problem Hello again folks. I have a question regarding building an oven as per Waynes = situation I have is this. I bought two 24" mica strip heaters from = Witch. I'm not sure how I should wire these bad boys up. These are the = on the two heaters; CHROMALOX USA PGH. PA. HKL GT-2407120V = C50601 236 214DP If I had the one long strip described in = Howell's books, I wouldn't waste the bandwidth. However, when it comes = electricity and copious amounts of heat, I want to be super-sure. = the help folks. Eamon Lee, from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Jun 15 11:05:58 2001 f5FG5vZ22715 Subject: Custom Chase work aka. engaving: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. " If you just want initials and not finest English "rose and scroll", youcando it yourself." Chase work is like doing bamboo, sure anybody can try but few willapprentice, my advise is to have it done by craftsmen if it is for a client.We can do it for you in shop if you want. Send me an e-mail of listdescribing what you want and I will give you price and time frame. Takecare, Tim. Upstream Always Tim DoughtyRodmaker Normal0DocumentEmail =93=A0 If you =just wantinitials and not finest English "rose and scroll", you =can do it =yourself.=94 Chase =work islike doing bamboo, sure anybody can try but few will apprentice, my =advise isto have it done by craftsmen if it is for a client. We can do it for you =inshop if you want. Send me an e-mail of list describing what you want and =I willgive you price and time frame. Take care, Tim. =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =Signature" Upstream =Always Tim Doughty Rodmaker from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Jun 15 11:18:40 2001 f5FGIdZ23375 2001 09:18:38 PDT Subject: Re: Heat treating oven problem Doug is right. I have this set-up wired in parallel with an internalfan as well and ran a dedicated 20 amp circuit for it. --- Douglas Losey wrote:Eamon, Wire each strip heater in parallel. Connect the conductor from the"load" side of the thermostat to one terminal on each strip heaterand connect the neutral conductor to the other terminal on eachstrip heater.You will have 1500 watts (+/- 13 amps) on your circuit which maycreate problems on a normal household circuit. regards,losey----- Original Message ----- From: Eamon Lee Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 8:37 AMSubject: Heat treating oven problem Hello again folks. I have a question regarding building an oven as per Waynesdesign. The situation I have is this. I bought two 24" mica stripheaters from Golden Witch. I'm not sure how I should wire these badboys up. These are the specs on the two heaters; CHROMALOX USA PGH.PA. HKL GT-2407 120V 750W 285 C50601 236 214DP If I had the onelong strip described in Wayne and Howell's books, I wouldn't wastethe bandwidth. However, when it comes to electricity and copiousamounts of heat, I want to be super-sure. Thanks for the helpfolks. Eamon Lee,Syracuse, New York __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.http://buzz.yahoo.com/ from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Jun 15 14:57:24 2001 f5FJvNZ00567 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:57:12 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:55:09 -0400 Subject: Denver Dave Hi...does anyone know where Denver Dave gets his Grangers? It seems likethey're mostly mint or close. If he has a deal with the previous Granger/WMowners,and there is a stash of them somewhere, maybe I could see it, butcanhe be just finding these out there from previous owners? I am just curious(because I would like to find a nice original Favorite some day). While Ihave seen Granger replicas advertised, I am not implying that's what theseare. Has anyone bought one from him and therefore seen one up close? Youcanreply offlist if you wish. from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jun 15 19:03:27 2001 f5G03QZ06861 Subject: Re: Denver Dave --part1_123.5e337a.285bfc44_boundary In a message dated 6/15/01 12:58:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com writes: Hi...does anyone know where Denver Dave gets his Grangers? It seems likethey're mostly mint or close. If he has a deal with the previousGranger/WMowners,and there is a stash of them somewhere, maybe I could see it, butcanhe be just finding these out there from previous owners? I am just curious(because I would like to find a nice original Favorite some day). While Ihave seen Granger replicas advertised, I am not implying that's what theseare. Has anyone bought one from him and therefore seen one up close? Youcan. I don't think Dave has any problem finding them - look at his prices. I know that mint Grangers are out there - I own one. Mine, a 9' W&M Aristocrat, was stored away in it's tube unopened for about fifty years. The tube itself is nearly unmarked and when I opened the tube, the orginal Granger sales literature booklet was still wrapped in with the rod bag. No it's not for sale - unless you happen to think Denver Dave is cheap with his prices. Don Burns --part1_123.5e337a.285bfc44_boundary In a message dated6/15/01 12:58:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com writes: Hi...does anyoneknow where Denver Dave gets his Grangers? It seems likethey're mostly mint or close. If he has a deal with the previousGranger/WMowners,and there is a stash of them somewhere, maybe I could see it,but canhe be just finding these out there from previous owners? I am justcurious(because I would like to find a nice original Favorite some day). While Ihave seen Granger replicas advertised, I am not implying that's whattheseare. Has anyone bought one from him and therefore seen one up close?You canreply offlist if you wish. I don't think Dave has any problem finding them - look at his prices. I know that mint Grangers are out there - I own one. Mine, a 9' W&M Aristocrat, was stored away in it's tube unopened for about fifty years.The tube itself is nearly unmarked and when I opened the tube, the orginal Granger sales literature booklet was still wrapped in with the rod bag. No it's not for sale - unless you happen to think Denver Dave is cheapwith Don Burns --part1_123.5e337a.285bfc44_boundary-- from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Fri Jun 15 19:50:41 2001 f5G0oeZ07443 f5G0oXi135746;Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:50:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Denver Dave AndrewI have bought a granger rod from denver dave still have it , Ifyou never have owned one Get one they are great rods I also have sold Daveseveral rods at a good profit he is alwayse fare ,Tony Larson----- Original Message ----- Subject: Denver Dave Hi...does anyone know where Denver Dave gets his Grangers? It seems likethey're mostly mint or close. If he has a deal with the previousGranger/WMowners,and there is a stash of them somewhere, maybe I could see it, butcanhe be just finding these out there from previous owners? I am just curious(because I would like to find a nice original Favorite some day). While Ihave seen Granger replicas advertised, I am not implying that's what theseare. Has anyone bought one from him and therefore seen one up close? Youcanreply offlist if you wish. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jun 15 23:37:13 2001 f5G4bCZ09415 VAA15500 Subject: Bamboo and Hot Creek This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Just got back from my Hot Creek trip. Using my first split cane rod and =catching huge trout was quite the thrill. Fishing Hot Creek Ranch is =almost a surreal experience. Dry fly only, barbless, no wading. Wild =trout ranged from 16" to 22" on this trip and the amount of educated =trout caught well... I wont say but the stream keeper wanted to know =what we were using to catch all of his educated trout. Bill the stream =keeper and his wife Diane are great folks and they are doing a great =job. Time to start the next rod. Just got back from my Hot Creek trip.= first split cane rod and catching huge trout was quite the thrill. = Creek Ranch is almost a surreal experience. Dry fly only, barbless, no = Wild trout ranged from 16" to 22" on this trip and the amount of = caught well... I wont say but the stream keeper wanted to know what we = using to catch all of his educated trout. Bill the stream keeper and his = Diane are great folks and they are doing a great job. Time to start the = rod. from vfish@vFish.net Sat Jun 16 04:29:20 2001 f5G9TIZ11310 Sat, 16 Jun 2001 04:29:18 -0500 Subject: RE: Denver Dave Denver Dave wouldn't sell a replica as an original... and I've not heard orseen of a WM replica... I sold him a mint Granger favorite awhile back that had the plastic on thegrip. I've bought, sold and traded rods with him in the past and he's agreat guy to deal with. FWIW. Where does he get them? from a lot of the same sources other collectorsgetthem, but he does specialize in the near mint and mint rods and continuallyamazes me with some of his finds. I wish I knew too! 8^) Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: Denver Dave Hi...does anyone know where Denver Dave gets his Grangers? It seems likethey're mostly mint or close. If he has a deal with the previous Granger/WMowners,and there is a stash of them somewhere, maybe I could see it, butcanhe be just finding these out there from previous owners? I am just curious(because I would like to find a nice original Favorite some day). While Ihave seen Granger replicas advertised, I am not implying that's what theseare. Has anyone bought one from him and therefore seen one up close? Youcanreply offlist if you wish. from ERADGOWSKI@twmi.rr.com Sat Jun 16 16:18:33 2001 f5GLIWZ18018 Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:18:32 -0500 Subject: test: please delete TestTest from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jun 16 21:53:03 2001 f5H2r2Z20769 Subject: Denver --part1_129.293398.285d7589_boundary My son leaves Tuesday morning for Denver to go into the studio with his band to record their 1st album/CD for international distribution. He was wondering if anyone in the area could or would be willing to help or show him some places where he could do some flyfishing for trout etc. If anyone is willing to take him someplace in the area fishing could you e-mail me so he may contact you when he gets there? He is not a beginner so he would not have to be baby-sat, he has been flyfishing since he was 5 years old.Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.Bret --part1_129.293398.285d7589_boundary studio with his band to record their 1st album/CD for international distribution. wondering if anyone in the area could or would be willing to help or showhim anyone is willing to take him someplace in the area fishing could you e-mail me sohe would not have to be baby-sat, he has been flyfishing since he was 5 years old. who can help.Bret --part1_129.293398.285d7589_boundary-- from jourdoktorn@chello.se Sun Jun 17 03:53:28 2001 f5H8rRZ23838 (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 licensea695420e49f967727839f4bc091d7585) +0200 Subject: Test Just testing - too quite from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Sun Jun 17 09:34:25 2001 f5HEYOZ26848 Subject: Re: Denver This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Brett, I live north of denver, unfortunately I am in West Virginia for a =temporary assignment, however, if you'ld like I can give your son =directions to some great small streams od possibly hook him up with =someone familiar with the area. losey Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 10:52 PM My son leaves Tuesday morning for Denver to go into the studio with = band to record their 1st album/CD for international distribution. He = wondering if anyone in the area could or would be willing to help or = some places where he could do some flyfishing for trout etc. If = willing to take him someplace in the area fishing could you e-mail me = may contact you when he gets there? He is not a beginner so he would = Brett, I live north of denver, unfortunately I = Virginia for a temporary assignment, however, if you'ld like I can give = directions to some great small streams od possibly hook him up with = familiar with the area. losey ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 = PMSubject: Denver Tuesday morning for Denver to go into the studio with his band to = if anyone in the area could or would be willing to help or show him = willing to take him someplace in the area fishing could you e-mail = would not have to be baby-sat, he has been flyfishing since he was = can help. Bret from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Jun 17 09:51:26 2001 f5HEpPZ27296 HAA28523 Subject: ShoeFly Dun This is a multi-part message in MIME format. It has been very quite on the list, more test post then post. I bet =everyone is out fishing and having a great time. Recently returning form =a fishing trip myself I will share one of the flies I came up with. Now =I know that is hard to be truly original in tying flies but if =Christopher Columbus can claim to have discovered America...I can claim =to having discovered the ShoeFly. The ShoeFly is very easy to tie and =very rugged. One shoefly has a record of 30 fish and still looks great. =The development of the shoe fly came about by trying to improve upon the =RS2. If you are unfamiliar with the RS2 check out =http://home.att.net/~ferenc/. The RS2 is a fly that is tremendously =effect. It can be used as a nymph and in the meniscus as an emerger. To =improve on the emerger aspect of the fly a CDC wing tied in similar to =an elk hair caddis was added. The longer CDC wing enable the fly to be =fish depending on the size and color as an emerging Dun, midge, caddis =and even a trico. CDC as a wing was great in visibility and floatability =but durability was and issue. After a fish is caught the CDC wing could =be difficult to dry out and remain viable. This is where the development =of the shoefly came in. Searching for a new wing material that would =still give the effectiveness of CDC as a wing but would improve its =durability took a while. I believe it was Francis Betters who came up =with the Haystack fly and later it was develop into the Comparadun by Al =Caucci. Betters also came up with a fly called The Usual, while the =design of the Usual did not interest me the claims of floatability of =the material used did. He used Snow Shoe rabbit or actually the hair = from their feet to make his fly. Now what I did is take the hair from a =dun colored snowshoe rabbits foot, actually the hair from the heel and =used it as a wing on the body of an RS2. The hair from the snowshoe =rabbit is tapered and thin as well as water resistant. Tying in the down =wing, which approximates the naturals size and shape, with a few turns =under it to let the body of the fly sit in the meniscus of the water, =thereby giving the profile needed to trigger wild trout to take it. =Tying it up is a 5 minute job. The fly is fished in the usual drift free =method, the wing is given some floatant but not the body. While on the =water it appears very much like a struggling dun. The prominent wing =acts as a trigger and so does the body profile. Whola... the ShoeFly, =now for the bamboo part. Catching fish with a fly I developed and with a =rod I crafted was very satisfying to the soul. After 23 years of fly =fishing I thought I had experience many great trout memories but none of =them were as satisfying as that one. Adam Vigilps: sorry about the length but the list has been very quite, just trying =to contribute. It has been very quite on the list, = then post. I bet everyone is out fishing and having a great time. = returning form a fishing trip myself I will share one of the flies I = having discovered the ShoeFly. The ShoeFly is very easy to tie and very = One shoefly has a record of 30 fish and still looks great. The = unfamiliar with the RS2 check out http://home.att.net/~ferenc/.&n= RS2 is a fly that is tremendously effect. It can be used as a nymph and = wing tied in similar to an elk hair caddis was added. The longer CDC = midge, caddis and even a trico. CDC as a wing was great in visibility = development of the shoefly came in. Searching for a new wing material = still give the effectiveness of CDC as a wing but would improve its = Haystack fly and later it was develop into the = snowshoe rabbit is tapered and thin as well as water resistant. Tying in = few turns under it to let the body of the fly sit in the meniscus of the = thereby giving the profile needed to trigger wild trout to take it. = is a 5 minute job. The fly is fished in the usual drift free method, the = much like a struggling dun. The prominent wing acts as a trigger and so = body profile. Whola... the ShoeFly, now for the bamboo part. Catching = a fly I developed and with a rod I crafted was very satisfying to the = After 23 years of fly fishing I thought I had experience many great = one. Adam Vigilps: sorry about the length but the list = very quite, just trying to contribute. from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sun Jun 17 12:00:57 2001 f5HH0uZ28980 Subject: Spar varnish dipping Good morningeveningdaynight !!! Is anybody dipping or dripping using spar varnish? I use Epifanes sparvarnish and want to try drip finishing. Should I thin it down? To whatextent? I have been getting good results brushing this varnish with itthinned by 5% but would like to have a try at dipping my rods to seewhich method is better. Any help and comments are appreciated Thankyou Stuart from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jun 17 16:26:17 2001 f5HLQGZ01061 sender ) Subject: Re: Spar varnish dipping I dip both Spar varnish and Poly. I switched to poly on my rods a year agobut still use spar on restorations of classics. I thin the spar 15% andheat it to around 90 degrees . Marty Stuart Moultrie wrote: Good morningeveningdaynight !!! Is anybody dipping or dripping using spar varnish? I use Epifanes sparvarnish and want to try drip finishing. Should I thin it down? To whatextent? I have been getting good results brushing this varnish with itthinned by 5% but would like to have a try at dipping my rods to seewhich method is better. Any help and comments are appreciated Thankyou Stuart from splitcane@home.com Sun Jun 17 18:17:35 2001 f5HNHYZ02002 ;Sun, 17 Jun 2001 16:17:29 -0700 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Spar varnish dipping Hi All... Dipping is my preferred method, guarantees complete coverage and afine finish... The normal thinning is to start at 5% to 10%, over 10% is notrecommended by the manufacture and if you have fresh spar it is notnormallynecessary. You can also thin with heat, incase your dip tube and install 2 -100w regular light bulbs at the bottom ( normally take about one hour tobring up to the desired temp depending on conditions ) This is handy if youwant to give the rod a "pi$$ coat", say you want a light coat to help thewrapping go faster or a existing rod that the finish needs a littlesomething but not a full coat... To test the consistency of the spar for dipping. Take a 18" section of a oldrod ( mine still has the old brass ferrule attached at the bottom forweight ) and wrap a #1/0 guide 4" off the bottom, then wrap a #1 guide 2"above that. Submerge the section and withdraw at 3" per minute, stopping assoon as the first guide ( size #1 guide ) breaks surface tension. Watch verycarefully, if the surface tension breaks in the loop of the guide within afew seconds you probably have the right consistency but to make sure dothesame with the next guide ( size #1/0 guide ). It should take a littlelonger, but no longer then 5 seconds. If the surface tension sticks ineither guide the your mixture is to thick and should be thinned, make sureand clean the test section so there is not a build up of spar... Tips... Use an old fly reel mounted next to the tube with a cord running thru an eyeloop on the ceiling to withdraw the sections... Clean the section with a mixture of Windex and Rubbing Alcohol ( Windex is before dipping... Use a car of spray air to blow off the section as you raise it up inposition For dipping ( especially around the guides )... Hang in a heated drying cabinet ( 2 - 100w light bulbs again ) for 5 daysbetween coats or 10 days on the finial coat... Put about 10 or 20 drops of mineral sprits in the tube before you cap itoff, this will prevent the spar from crusting or jelling up but remember tomix it up before the next use... Cover the cork grip with Saran wrap and painters tape ( Blue ) to preventcork dust for buggering up the finish, you can also use the painters tape totape off the winding check and ferrules so the spar stops were you want itto stop. Do not remove the tape till the next day and be careful so you donot bugger up the finish as it will still be fresh... Hope this helps, Dave ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Spar varnish dipping Good morningeveningdaynight !!! Is anybody dipping or dripping using spar varnish? I use Epifanes sparvarnish and want to try drip finishing. Should I thin it down? To whatextent? I have been getting good results brushing this varnish with itthinned by 5% but would like to have a try at dipping my rods to seewhich method is better. Any help and comments are appreciated Thankyou Stuart from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Sun Jun 17 21:03:28 2001 f5I23QZ03422 Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:02:53 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) Rodmakers Subject: RE: Spar varnish dipping Hi Stuart,I started out with one litre of spar varnish into which Ipoured 250ml of artist's turpentine. You could probably thin it more if youwanted to. I don't believe the ratios are critical so just experiment tosee what suits you.RegardsMike -----Original Message----- Subject: Spar varnish dipping Good morningeveningdaynight !!! Is anybody dipping or dripping using spar varnish? I use Epifanes sparvarnish and want to try drip finishing. Should I thin it down? To whatextent? I have been getting good results brushing this varnish with itthinned by 5% but would like to have a try at dipping my rods to seewhich method is better. Any help and comments are appreciated Thankyou Stuart from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Jun 17 23:04:28 2001 f5I44RZ04960 VAA05485 Subject: test delete This is a multi-part message in MIME format. from castafly63@home.com Mon Jun 18 01:20:16 2001 f5I6KFZ06828 0700User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Reel Seat & Ferrule Recommendations For First Rod I have just finished building the blanks for my first rod--It's an 8' 3/25-wt based on the Granger taper in Jack Howell's book, and so far I am verypleased!! Now I need to add ferrules and a reel seat. I don't want to getthe fancy, expensive stuff for this rod, but at the same time, I want toadorn it with some decent hardware for a good price. I wouldn't mind a nicealuminum reel seat with a wood spacer. Does anyone have recommendationsabout the kinds/brands/sources of ferrules and reel seats to buy withoutbreaking the bank? I don't have a lathe, so I will be fitting the ferrules Also, one other question...while the blanks I made came out much better thanI expected, I didn't flame them, and there are some water marks and otherstains in the bamboo (I didn't want to use the best stuff for my first rod).Is there any way to minimize these stains or possibly lightly flame theblanks before I finish the rod? Thanks!! from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jun 18 07:36:03 2001 f5ICa2Z10298 Jun 2001 08:34:45 -0400 Subject: Grayrock questions --=====================_155568166==_.ALT Here are a few quick questions for you guys who have been there before. I appreciate your help.1, Would getting there at 10 or 11 on Friday night be a waste? It would save me from driving in the dark. I am right to asusme you guys will either be off fishing or drinking cold ones?2, Where can I still get a place to stay? I am thinking the road warrior coming earlier.Thanks a lot. I look forward to meeting you all there. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_155568166==_.ALT Here are a few quick questions for you guys who have been there before. Iappreciate your help.1, Would getting there at 10 or 11 on Friday night be a waste? It wouldsave me from driving in the dark. I am right to asusme you guys willeither be off fishing or drinking cold ones?2, Where can I still get a place to stay? I am thinking the road warrior coming earlier.Thanks a lot. I look forward to meeting you all there. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_155568166==_.ALT-- from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Jun 18 08:49:32 2001 f5IDnVZ12865 Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:49:28 -0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: Reel Seat & Ferrule Recommendations For First Rod Jeff, My first two rods are adourned with cheap Fuji reel seats and nickel platedbrass ferrules, total cost about $15. Jann's or Dale Clemens has decentseats at a range of prices. My thought was that my rods are going to getbetter, and the next rod I make will be my main rod, (less imperfections)and I'll adourn that witht the big bucks stuff. 15 rods later, I still usethe first rod, I think this winter, I will put nickel silver ferrules on it.A decent reel seat is about $50, and ferrules $40, by the time you getguides, stripper and rod tube It was costing me $150 a rod. That's why Ibought a lathe this year. As for fitting ferrules by hand, GO SLOW and be sure to take equal materialoff on all sides, else you will have a crooked rod, don't ask how I know. Most of my rods have water marks and such, they have no effect on actionandI think they add to the personality of the rod. I like my rods blonde,after all that is how mather nature made it and everybody knows its not niceto fool with her. I would be worried about flaming after gluing unless youused a high temp glue, that's just an opinion, I have never flamed before. Hope this helpsTom AusfeldRochester, NY ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Reel Seat & Ferrule Recommendations For First Rod I have just finished building the blanks for my first rod--It's an 8' 3/25-wt based on the Granger taper in Jack Howell's book, and so far I amverypleased!! Now I need to add ferrules and a reel seat. I don't want togetthe fancy, expensive stuff for this rod, but at the same time, I want toadorn it with some decent hardware for a good price. I wouldn't mind anicealuminum reel seat with a wood spacer. Does anyone haverecommendationsabout the kinds/brands/sources of ferrules and reel seats to buy withoutbreaking the bank? I don't have a lathe, so I will be fitting theferrules Also, one other question...while the blanks I made came out much betterthanI expected, I didn't flame them, and there are some water marks and otherstains in the bamboo (I didn't want to use the best stuff for my firstrod).Is there any way to minimize these stains or possibly lightly flame theblanks before I finish the rod? Thanks!! from Kengorific@aol.com Mon Jun 18 10:47:05 2001 f5IFl4Z19413 Subject: stained culms I just split into a culm that I have had stored in my garage for several months and found that the inside of the bamboo has a dark stain that looks like mildew or a fungus of some sort. After further inspection I found that 4 out of the 6 culms have similar problems. I don't know if they arrived with this damage or if they spoiled during storage. The stained areas don't seem to extend into the power fibers, although a couple of the node areas seem to be stained clear through. I spent almost80 bucks getting a small shipment of bamboo out to my remote mountain homeand I am reluctant to just trash this material. I am a novice/amatuer rodmakerand can probaly use the experiance of working the damaged strips, even if they don't produce a perfect rod. My questions for the more experienced of you are as follows... 1) Is this staining cometic or does it effect the strength of the bamboo? I flex tested the worst strips seems and they seem OK. Can I use thedamaged material if I am not too concerned about the final appearence? 2) Is there any way to bleach or stain the bamboo to conceal the darker areas. 3) Is this a common problem with bamboo? I didn't inspect the culms very carefully when they arrived in January (oops!) , they were stored in an unheated garage attic space and I don't think they got wet during storage. How can I prevent this in the future. from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Jun 18 12:04:12 2001 f5IH4BZ23823 (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:04:04 -0700 Subject: Old Plane Blades I was given a couple old bench planes. One is a Stanley 605 1/2 which is amonster 15 inches long and 3 inches wide, and says Patented APR 2 - 95.Fromthe appearance that's not 1995. It must weigh about 10 lbs. Not verysuitable for rodmaking. The other is a Union No.3 with no date anywhere, butit looks as old as the Stanley. This one looks like it would be fairly wellsuited for roughing strips, it's 7 inches long and 2 inches wide, so Isharpened the blade. Someone had taken a grinder to it sometime in thepast.One thing became evident very quickly. This blade is much harder than theother plane blades I own (I do own a couple Hock blades), and when I finallygot a good edge on it and tested it on a few strips it was evident that thisblade holds an edge a lot longer than my other blades. I remember one of the Terry Ackland brouhaha's from a couple years agowherehe was claiming Stanley blades were better than Hock blades. Well, as muchas I hate to admit it (I wasn't involved in the original argument) if he wasbasing his claims with these old blades, he was right. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jun 18 12:43:37 2001 f5IHhaZ25126 KAA26714 KAA27011 (5.5.2650.21) "'Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com'" Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades The old Stanley blades were made out of Swedish steel from the same townE. A. Berg chisels were made.. Eskeltuna (splng?) Sweden. There is nothing inthe world that holds an edge as good. We tried all different kinds of chiselsat the violin shop I worked at, including laminated Japanese steel, and gavethem all away and stuck with the old Swedish. When the plane blades get soshort to sharpen, bevel all the way up to the slot down the middle, you canslit them in half length ways and make the finest knives. The 605 Stanley istheir bedrock model and has the only completely adjustable frog made. Thefrog is dovetailed and fits in a dovetail ways and you dont have to removethe blade to adjust it. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:04 AM Subject: Old Plane Blades I was given a couple old bench planes. One is a Stanley 605 1/2 which is amonster 15 inches long and 3 inches wide, and says Patented APR 2 - 95.Fromthe appearance that's not 1995. It must weigh about 10 lbs. Not verysuitable for rodmaking. The other is a Union No.3 with no date anywhere,butit looks as old as the Stanley. This one looks like it would be fairly wellsuited for roughing strips, it's 7 inches long and 2 inches wide, so Isharpened the blade. Someone had taken a grinder to it sometime in thepast.One thing became evident very quickly. This blade is much harder than theother plane blades I own (I do own a couple Hock blades), and when I finallygot a good edge on it and tested it on a few strips it was evident that thisblade holds an edge a lot longer than my other blades. I remember one of the Terry Ackland brouhaha's from a couple years agowherehe was claiming Stanley blades were better than Hock blades. Well, as muchas I hate to admit it (I wasn't involved in the original argument) if he wasbasing his claims with these old blades, he was right. Darryl Hayashida from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Mon Jun 18 13:06:36 2001 f5II6ZZ26025 Subject: Grayrock events and registration --part1_6a.f84a02c.285f9d21_boundary howdy, Just trying to find out how to register for Grayrock. Some one had said to go to www.curo.net....... I tried and i got some pysic healers page . Does anyone have a schedule of events and a good webaddress????????????? thanks, Jim --part1_6a.f84a02c.285f9d21_boundary howdy, Just trying to find out how to register for Grayrock. Some one had saidto go Does anyone have a schedule of events and a good webaddress????????????? thanks, Jim --part1_6a.f84a02c.285f9d21_boundary-- from dryfly@erols.com Mon Jun 18 13:15:21 2001 f5IIFLZ26729 ([208.58.203.151] helo=erols.com) Subject: N/S Sheet Anyone know of a source for .010 thick nickel silver sheet. Thethinnest Sheffield's carries is .020. ThanksBob from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Jun 18 13:21:09 2001 f5IIL5Z27237 Subject: RE: Grayrock events and registration This is a multi-part message in MIME format. http://www.curro.netis the site you are looking for. hope it helpsBrad-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu GRNMTRODS@aol.comSent: Monday, June 18, 2001 1:06 PM Subject: Grayrock events and registration howdy, Just trying to find out how to register for Grayrock. Some one had said togoto www.curo.net....... I tried and i got some pysic healers page . Does anyone have a schedule of events and a good webaddress????????????? thanks,Jim http://www.curro.net site you are looking for. it helpsBrad GRNMTRODS@aol.comSent: Monday, June 18, 2001 and registrationhowdy, Just trying to find out how to register for = some pysic healers page . Does anyone have a schedule of = from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Jun 18 13:31:15 2001 f5IIVFZ27870 pri.pacificare.com 2001 18:33:15 UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:31:08 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades It might be worth it to buy the old planes that are on eBay just to get theblades.As you can tell, I'm sold on them. I'm just amazed at the edge they take andhold.Do you know of any modern day source?Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades The old Stanley blades were made out of Swedish steel from the sametownE. A. Berg chisels were made.. Eskeltuna (splng?) Sweden. There is nothingin the world that holds an edge as good. We tried all different kinds ofchisels at the violin shop I worked at, including laminated Japanesesteel, and gave them all away and stuck with the old Swedish. When theplane blades get so short to sharpen, bevel all the way up to the slotdown the middle, you can slit them in half length ways and make the finestknives. The 605 Stanley is their bedrock model and has the only completelyadjustable frog made. The frog is dovetailed and fits in a dovetail waysand you dont have to remove the blade to adjust it. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:04 AM Subject: Old Plane Blades I was given a couple old bench planes. One is a Stanley 605 1/2 which isamonster 15 inches long and 3 inches wide, and says Patented APR 2 - 95.Fromthe appearance that's not 1995. It must weigh about 10 lbs. Not verysuitable for rodmaking. The other is a Union No.3 with no date anywhere,butit looks as old as the Stanley. This one looks like it would be fairlywellsuited for roughing strips, it's 7 inches long and 2 inches wide, so Isharpened the blade. Someone had taken a grinder to it sometime in thepast.One thing became evident very quickly. This blade is much harder thantheother plane blades I own (I do own a couple Hock blades), and when Ifinallygot a good edge on it and tested it on a few strips it was evident thatthisblade holds an edge a lot longer than my other blades. I remember one of the Terry Ackland brouhaha's from a couple years agowherehe was claiming Stanley blades were better than Hock blades. Well, asmuchas I hate to admit it (I wasn't involved in the original argument) if hewasbasing his claims with these old blades, he was right. Darryl Hayashida from ddeloach@pcisys.net Mon Jun 18 13:55:20 2001 f5IItJZ28964 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I remember that thread too. But I think Terrance was taking the positionthat even the new Stanley blades are just as good as Hock. Defnitely not thecase in my experience! I remember one of the Terry Ackland brouhaha's from a couple years agowherehe was claiming Stanley blades were better than Hock blades. Well, as muchas I hate to admit it (I wasn't involved in the original argument) if hewasbasing his claims with these old blades, he was right. Darryl Hayashida from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jun 18 14:25:14 2001 f5IJPDZ00960 Subject: Re: Grayrock questions --part1_25.16dfcef1.285faf8d_boundary In a message dated 6/18/01 5:36:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Here are a few quick questions for you guys who have been there before. I appreciate your help.1, Would getting there at 10 or 11 on Friday night be a waste? It would save me from driving in the dark. I am right to asusme you guys will either be off fishing or drinking cold ones?2, Where can I still get a place to stay? I am thinking the road warrior coming earlier.Thanks a lot. I look forward to meeting you all there. Bob Maulucci Bob, Take it from me, as last year's last arrival, go as early as you can. Watch you Ginness if Tony Young's around too. Sorry that I can't make it too. Don Burns --part1_25.16dfcef1.285faf8d_boundary In a message dated6/18/01 5:36:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Here are a few quick questions for you guys who have been therebefore. I appreciate your help.1, Would getting there at 10 or 11 on Friday night be a waste? It would save me from driving in the dark. I am right to asusme you guys willeither be off fishing or drinking cold ones?2, Where can I still get a place to stay? I am thinking the road warrior coming earlier.Thanks a lot. I look forward to meeting you all there. Bob Maulucci Bob, Take it from me, as last year's last arrival, go as early as you can. Sorry that I can't make it too. Don Burns --part1_25.16dfcef1.285faf8d_boundary-- from parataper@hotmail.com Mon Jun 18 14:28:25 2001 f5IJSOZ01430 Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:28:18 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:28:18 GMT Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades FILETIME=[D3F82B80:01C0F82C] because I figured that these blades were as good as any blade out taking the position Defnitely not the a couple years ago blades. Well, as much argument) if he Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 18 15:04:13 2001 f5IK4CZ04344 f5IK4Am16072 Subject: Re: Reel Seat & Ferrule Recommendations For First Rod Jeff,Don't make the mistake I made with the ferrules. I used the Netcraft ferruleandI am still regretting it.It keeps loosening up. I keep squeezing it smaller and after a few uses it isloose again.I also used a 3.00 cork grip and a 5.00 reel seat. Would not do it again.I would go with a Pac Bay reel seat and a 15.00 formed cork grip. I thoughtmyfirst rod would be a bummer. Believe me, it turned out great other than theferrule. Another problem, I can't find a male ferrule that will fit that female.I only made one tip for the first rod, later made a second tip but Netcraftsaidthey had no more sz 13 ferrules so I could not get another male that size.Thesz 13 tube I have is a different size and is loose.I will eventually have to replace the ferrule.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jeff Ferguson wrote: I have just finished building the blanks for my first rod--It's an 8' 3/25-wt based on the Granger taper in Jack Howell's book, and so far I am verypleased!! Now I need to add ferrules and a reel seat. I don't want to getthe fancy, expensive stuff for this rod, but at the same time, I want toadorn it with some decent hardware for a good price. I wouldn't mind a nicealuminum reel seat with a wood spacer. Does anyone haverecommendationsabout the kinds/brands/sources of ferrules and reel seats to buy withoutbreaking the bank? I don't have a lathe, so I will be fitting the ferrules Also, one other question...while the blanks I made came out much betterthanI expected, I didn't flame them, and there are some water marks and otherstains in the bamboo (I didn't want to use the best stuff for my first rod).Is there any way to minimize these stains or possibly lightly flame theblanks before I finish the rod? Thanks!! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 18 16:34:17 2001 f5ILYGZ27129 Subject: Did I miss anything? Hi friends,I've been off the list for a few days... Did I missanything big? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jun 18 18:01:54 2001 f5IN1sZ19895 Subject: Re: N/S Sheet Thyssen Copper and Brass Sales1-800-926-2600www.thyssen.com They have offices located all over. In their catalog they list 18% NS, Soft,in coils at .008, +/- .0003, as well as others. M-D Anyone know of a source for .010 thick nickel silver sheet. Thethinnest Sheffield's carries is .020. ThanksBob from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 18 18:33:03 2001 f5INX2Z26982 +0000 Subject: Black nickel silver ferrules. What was the name of the photographic chemical that is used to blackennickel silver? Jack from martinj@aa.net Mon Jun 18 20:37:28 2001 f5J1bRZ21380 Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:37:24 -0700 Subject: RE: stained culms I had this problem on a few culms I bought a while back. for futurereference, I am going to knock all the node dams out and make one full splitdown the length of the culm (I make the full split now). I am thinking thatthe addition of knocking the dams out will help promote better air flow sothat moisture can not accumulate within the sections. It takes a while forthe bamboo to dry to the point where it spreads open enough to releasetrapped moisture between the dam areas. In the mean time, with the bambooyou have, I would split up as if you were making a rod and take the worstpiece and bend it until it breaks. Now you need to fine a good section ofabout the same dimensions and break it also. If it takes the same force andthe break splinters nicely instead of just breaking in half, it is probablyOK. In order to test, you will have to test to destruction, a few pieces.This has the added benefit of getting rid of the moldy bamboo anyway. Whenyou split the pieces, you can look and see just how deep the mold hasprogressed also. I have made about three rods from this stuff. They are myfavorite rods (maybe that is just because they are my latest). Also, as Isaid, I tested the worst section to destruction and couldn't make a rod outof the pieces even if I wanted to. BTW, all the pieces I tested splinteredjust fine. If I had it to do over again though, I would test to destructionagain. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: stained culms I just split into a culm that I have had stored in my garage for severalmonths and found that the inside of the bamboo has a dark stain that lookslike mildew or a fungus of some sort. After further inspection I found that4 out of the 6 culms have similar problems. I don't know if they arrivedwith this damage or if they spoiled during storage. The stained areas don't seem to extend into the power fibers, although acouple of the node areas seem to be stained clear through. I spent almost80bucks getting a small shipment of bamboo out to my remote mountain homeandIam reluctant to just trash this material. I am a novice/amatuer rodmakerandcan probaly use the experiance of working the damaged strips, even if theydon't produce a perfect rod. My questions for the more experienced of you are as follows... 1) Is this staining cometic or does it effect the strength of the bamboo?Iflex tested the worst strips seems and they seem OK. Can I use thedamagedmaterial if I am not too concerned about the final appearence? 2) Is there any way to bleach or stain the bamboo to conceal the darkerareas. 3) Is this a common problem with bamboo? I didn't inspect the culms verycarefully when they arrived in January (oops!) , they were stored in anunheated garage attic space and I don't think they got wet during storage.How can I prevent this in the future. from Troutgetter@aol.com Mon Jun 18 20:51:47 2001 f5J1pkZ24481 Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades --part1_17.175539c6.28600a25_boundary Darryl and all, This is my experience as well. I have a (supposedly) 1909 Stanley 9 1/2 with the original blade and a new 9 1/2 with a hock. The new 9 1/2 has settled in to be my roughing plane requiring sharpening about twice when roughing out a rod. The old Stanley I use for finish planing and holds its edge for an entire rod even though I nick the forms regularly with it (so I'm a spaz!). Anyway, have to agree, the old irons seem to be better. Also thinner and the notches in the iron are different as well. Hock doesn't make the same blade configuration so I keep an eye out for old 9 1/2's just to pick up the irons. Since you're in SoCal Darryl, try the swap meet at Veterans Stadium in Long Beach, third Sunday of every month. Look in junk boxes of tool guys and you might find an old plane not worth trying to retune but the iron might be salvageable for not to much cash. I've found a few there. Mike --part1_17.175539c6.28600a25_boundary Darryl and all, This is my experience as well. I have a (supposedly) 1909 Stanley 9 1/2with the original blade and a new 9 1/2 with a hock. The new 9 1/2 hassettled in to be my roughing plane requiring sharpening about twice when roughingout a rod. The old Stanley I use for finish planing and holds its edge for an entire rod even though I nick the forms regularly with it (so I'm a spaz!). Anyway, have to agree, the old irons seem to be better. Also thinnerand the notches in the iron are different as well. Hock doesn't make the sameblade configuration so I keep an eye out for old 9 1/2's just to pick up theirons. Since you're in SoCal Darryl, try the swap meet at Veterans Stadium inLong Beach, third Sunday of every month. Look in junk boxes of tool guys andyou might find an old plane not worth trying to retune but the iron might be salvageable for not to much cash. I've found a few there. Mike --part1_17.175539c6.28600a25_boundary-- from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Jun 18 21:24:37 2001 f5J2OaZ01431 Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:24:32 +1000 Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades FILETIME=[F98D8D10:01C0F866] Hi all: I found that searching on ebay under: block plane, there was acontinual offering of interesting planes of all vintages. If you are notinterested in top visual condition that the collectors seek, theseplanes are cheap. Sean Troutgetter@aol.com wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit from Dennishigham@cs.com Mon Jun 18 22:22:35 2001 f5J3MYZ12936 Subject: Re: Grayrock questions rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Don,Sorry you can't make it this year. Tony's arrived and the Guiness is in short supply! Best, Dennis from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Jun 18 23:05:33 2001 f5J45RZ21010 Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:05:22 +1000 Subject: Joining list FILETIME=[0FB50EC0:01C0F875] Hi: I joined rodmakers long ago under the name: seanmcs@ar.com.au. Now Ihave changed my ISP and have joined again under seanmcs@iprimus.com.au.How do I unjoin for seanmcs@ar.com.au. I have message diversion from theold ISP, so am now getting everything in duplicate! Thanks. Sean from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Jun 19 01:29:43 2001 f5J6TgZ01445 Tue, 19 Jun 2001 07:29:38 +0100 Subject: Re: Black nickel silver ferrules. Try Ilford fixer and Ilford hardener............Paul Jacques Follweiler wrote: What was the name of the photographic chemical that is used to blackennickel silver? Jack from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Jun 19 07:33:33 2001 f5JCXWZ04448 IAA20920; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: stained culms My solution is to simply keep my culms stored standing in t he corner of myfurnace/AC room where it is dry as a bone. ALso good place to store myformsand planes when not in use...no moisture in the air, no rust, no culm stains.dws. from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Tue Jun 19 07:40:08 2001 f5JCe7Z04735 Subject: Leaving for Grayrock --part1_fb.1588b1bc.2860a21c_boundary Hello, Countdown is at t minus 2 hours. It is tuesday, already and iam excited about this trip and happenings in Grayrock. Hope to see everyone in 20 hours unless we get a hellava snow storm. signing off till I return home , not that it matters a whole bunch. Taking my turn at rambling. Jim in Vermont --part1_fb.1588b1bc.2860a21c_boundary Hello, Countdown is at t minus 2 hours. It is tuesday, already and iam excitedabout this trip and happenings in Grayrock. Hope to see everyone in 20 hours unless we get a hellava snow storm. signing off till I return home , not that it matters a whole bunch. Taking my turn at rambling. Jim in Vermont --part1_fb.1588b1bc.2860a21c_boundary-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Jun 19 08:22:35 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f5JDMYZ07062 (5.5.2653.19) JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Subject: RE: Black nickel silver ferrules. Kodak Fixer (the powder) also works well by itself (no additional hardenerneeded). -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Black nickel silver ferrules. Try Ilford fixer and Ilford hardener............Paul Jacques Follweiler wrote: What was the name of the photographic chemical that is used to blackennickel silver? Jack from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Jun 19 08:32:26 2001 f5JDWPZ07505 Subject: Greyrock help This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I need some help.I didn't think I would be able to attend Greyrock.But it looks like I might be able to now.My problem is: I'm not sure if I'm too late or not.Can any one tell me who I might contact, too attend , at this late date? =Or am I too late?Tony Miller I need somehelp.I didn't think I would be able = Greyrock.But it looks like I might be = now.My problem is: I'm not sure if= or not.Can any one tell me contact, too attend , at this late date? Or am I too late?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Jun 19 08:43:10 2001 f5JDhAZ08034 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:43:19 -0400 0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:40:41 -0400 Subject: RE: Denver Dave This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Just a thanks on all the responses I got on Denver Dave..all were positive. honest. I really should not have mentioned anything about having seenGranger replicas for sale elsewhere, and did not mean to imply that he wasselling anything other than the real thing. Andy Justa thanks on all the responses I got on Denver Dave..all were positive. For the record, I meant no implication that he was anything other than honest. I really shouldnot have mentioned anything about having seen Granger replicas for saleelsewhere, and did not mean to imply that he was selling anything other than the real thing. Andy from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Jun 19 09:37:06 2001 f5JEb5Z10135 0400 Subject: Classic Chronicle: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi, I am looking to subscribe to Classic Chronicle to get latest rod prices. Itwas mention on the list but not where to apply. If anyone could point me toa web site or address it would be very much appreciated. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always Tim DoughtyRodmaker Normal0DocumentEmail Hi, I am looking to subscribe to Classic Chronicle to get latest rod =prices.It was mention on the list but not where to apply. If anyone could point =me toa web site or address it would be very much appreciated. Take care, =Tim. =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =Signature" Upstream =Always Tim Doughty Rodmaker from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Jun 19 09:51:53 2001 f5JEpqZ10997 0400 Subject: Classic Chronicle: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks for your help, This site is what I was looking for, once again thankyou, to all of you who sent the info. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always Tim DoughtyRodmaker Normal0DocumentEmail Thanks for your help, This site is what I was looking for, once =againthank you, to all of you who sent the info. Take care, =Tim. =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =Signature" Upstream =Always Tim Doughty Rodmaker from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Jun 19 10:30:15 2001 f5JFUEZ12729 pri.pacificare.com 2001 15:32:16 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:30:07 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades I had a Stanley 9 1/2 for roughing, and Record 9 1/2 and an LN 212 scraper the Union for roughing from now on. It is bigger and heavier, but not by aheck of a lot, and the rear handle makes it easier to control. I find iteasier to feel if the plane is flat to the forms, and it can be set to takeoff a lot in one pass. It can also be easily set to take off a fairly fineshaving also. Along with the superior blade, I'm using this as my roughingplane from now on.Darryl from dati@selway.umt.edu Tue Jun 19 12:40:58 2001 f5JHevZ17534 Subject: challenger Has anyone ever heard of a challenger flyrod made in Denver, Colorado andif so, what can you tell me about it?Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from vfish@vFish.net Tue Jun 19 14:27:56 2001 f5JJRtZ21576 Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:27:22 -0500 Subject: RE: challenger It's a private label rod made by Wright McGill. Basically a entry levelGranger. Darrellwww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: challenger Has anyone ever heard of a challenger flyrod made in Denver, Colorado andif so, what can you tell me about it?Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jun 19 14:57:43 2001 f5JJvgZ22529 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Payne Canadian Canoe taper --------------E98FB8274FDC23D8CEE9E540 Brett and others that requested it,here is the taper I told you Iwould send almost two weeks ago. Sorry for the delay, I have been sick as adog and Iam just catching up (yeah right!!) now.Payne Canadian Canoe 8' 6" 7 wt 3pc(17/64 and 12/64 ferrules)Deduct .004" to .006" for varnish. Butt Mid Tip0 .385 .268 .1725 .385 .262 .16410 .385 .253 .15315 .333 .237 .13920 .311 .229 .12525 .300 .216 .10830 .289 .195 .08534 .276 .184 .072 Enjoy,unfortunately I know very little about the original rod. If anyone hasanything like cosmetics or guide spacing please share? If there are any otherpoorsouls out there that aren't at Grayrock now that is!! I envy you all!Shawn --------------E98FB8274FDC23D8CEE9E540 here is the taper I told you I would send almost two weeks ago. Sorry forthe delay, I have been sick as a dog and I am just catching up (yeah right!!)now. 3pc(17/64and 12/64 ferrules) varnish. Tip .172 .164 .153 .139 .125 .108 .085 .072Enjoy, unfortunatelyI know very little about the original rod. If anyone has anything likecosmetics or guide spacing please share? If there are any other poor soulsout there that aren't at Grayrock now that is!! I envy you all! Shawn --------------E98FB8274FDC23D8CEE9E540-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jun 19 15:04:35 2001 f5JK4YZ22976 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Blonde rods Hi all,"Hi my name is Shawn and I'm a flame-o- holic....." actually these will bemyfirst blonde rods I have built and I'm looking for some advice on flattening thenodes on a blonde rod vice my standard flamed rods.I have heard of guys soaking the strips before heating and pressing topreventscorching the nodes??? Any advice for this flamer would be appreciated.TIA Shawn from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Jun 19 15:08:10 2001 f5JK89Z23226 QAA00702; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: guide res's for PHY midge ANyone out there care to make recommendations for the number (I've used7 in the past) of and size of guide s for a PHY midge (6'4", 2 piece) 4wt?Thanks in advance, dws. from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jun 19 15:17:49 2001 f5JKHhZ23652 Subject: Re: guide res's for PHY midge I have the list below (sent by a listmember from his original rod, sorry I don't know who. I am told it works.) Here is the guide spacing on the PHY Midge. Starting at the tip: 5", 6-3/8" 6-13/16", 6-7/16", 7-7/8", 5-1/2", toend of male ferrule. Male portion that fits inside the female is .875". from end of female ferrule: 5", 9-1/2", 16-1/2" to front of grip,3-15/16" to end of grip, 3-1/8" from end of grip, to end of rod/reel seat.Total length of the entire female ferrule is 2". Bob At 04:07 PM 6/19/2001 -0400, David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote:ANyone out there care to make recommendations for the number (I've used7 in the past) of and size of guide s for a PHY midge (6'4", 2 piece) 4wt?Thanks in advance, dws. from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jun 19 15:22:25 2001 f5JKMOZ23935 Subject: Re: Blonde rods --=====================_1908916==_.ALT Soaking works like a charm. I have also heard from many a master builder that if you are charring the bamboo, you are not being patient enough. See which works for you. I tend to question the anti- charring defense (only slightly) when I see the straightened strips in Ray Gould's fine book, and they are charred at the nodes on the pith sides.You might also try steam to straighten. Many ways to skin a cat, I guess.Take care,Bob M. At 05:07 PM 6/19/2001 -0400, you wrote:Hi all,"Hi my name is Shawn and I'm a flame-o- holic....." actually these will be myfirst blonde rods I have built and I'm looking for some advice on flattening thenodes on a blonde rod vice my standard flamed rods.I have heard of guys soaking the strips before heating and pressing to preventscorching the nodes??? Any advice for this flamer would be appreciated. TIA Shawn Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_1908916==_.ALT Soaking works like a charm. I have also heard from many a master builderthat if you are charring the bamboo, you are not being patient enough.See which works for you. I tend to question the anti- charring defense(only slightly) when I see the straightened strips in Ray Gould's finebook, and they are charred at the nodes on the pith sides. You might also try steam to straighten. Many ways to skin a cat, Iguess.Take care,Bob M.At 05:07 PM 6/19/2001 -0400, you wrote:Hi all, a first blonde rods I have built and I'm looking for some advice onflattening thenodes on a blonde rod vice my standard flamed rods. heating and pressing to preventscorching the nodes??? Any advice for this flamer would beappreciated. TIAShawn Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_1908916==_.ALT-- from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Jun 19 15:33:13 2001 f5JKXCZ24366 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:33:20 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:30:46 -0400 Subject: RE: Spar varnish dipping Are mineral spirits ok to thin with? How do you recommend mixing to avoidbubbles...just stir well but don't shake, and then wait a period of time? thx Andy -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Spar varnish dipping Hi Stuart,I started out with one litre of spar varnish into which Ipoured 250ml of artist's turpentine. You could probably thin it more if youwanted to. I don't believe the ratios are critical so just experiment tosee what suits you.RegardsMike -----Original Message----- Subject: Spar varnish dipping Good morningeveningdaynight !!! Is anybody dipping or dripping using spar varnish? I use Epifanes sparvarnish and want to try drip finishing. Should I thin it down? To whatextent? I have been getting good results brushing this varnish with itthinned by 5% but would like to have a try at dipping my rods to seewhich method is better. Any help and comments are appreciated Thankyou Stuart from bcombest@iclub.org Tue Jun 19 15:35:57 2001 f5JKZuZ24571 ; Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:25:08 -0400 Subject: Stabilizing wood This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I am a recent addition to this world of bamboo rods. I have gleaned a =great deal of info from the list over the past few months and I have a =question. Awhile back the subject of stabilizing wood came up and I =sort of missed the discussion. Something about a "soup" of acetone and =Plexiglas, aniline dies (alcohol or water based?) mixed with the "soup" =or prior to the "soup" in another step?I have some plum tree wood that is now dry and ready to cut up and turn. =Anybody ever work with plum? PS- HOWDY TO THE "MEMPHIS MAFIA" THAT I RECENTLY MET IN GRAYLING. Bruce Combest Berea, Ky I am a recent addition to this world of = about a "soup" of acetone and Plexiglas, aniline dies (alcohol or water = mixed with the "soup" or prior to the "soup" in another =step?I have some plum tree wood that is now= plum? PS- HOWDY TO THE "MEMPHIS MAFIA"THAT I = Ky from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jun 19 15:44:56 2001 f5JKisZ25288 Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood --=====================_3262763==_.ALT In the upcoming July issue of Power Fibers, Bob Nunley talks about his bamboo ferrule experiments, and he outlines how he impregnates the bamboo ferrule sections with Plexiglass. I know he is off being a trout bum, so without his okay, I can't forward his copywritten material to the list. If he doesn't pop back in to the list before then, check the issue out. It should be posted at the site on July 1.Thanks,Bob At 04:33 PM 6/19/2001 -0400, Bruce Combest wrote:I am a recent addition to this world of bamboo rods. I have gleaned a great deal of info from the list over the past few months and I have a question. Awhile back the subject of stabilizing wood came up and I sort of missed the discussion. Something about a "soup" of acetone and Plexiglas, aniline dies (alcohol or water based?) mixed with the "soup" or prior to the "soup" in another step?I have some plum tree wood that is now dry and ready to cut up and turn. Anybody ever work with plum? PS- HOWDY TO THE "MEMPHIS MAFIA" THAT I RECENTLY MET IN GRAYLING.Bruce Combest Berea, Ky Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboo rodmaking218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 homebmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_3262763==_.ALT In the upcoming July issue of Power Fibers, Bob Nunley talks about hisbamboo ferrule experiments, and he outlines how he impregnates the bambooferrule sections with Plexiglass. I know he is off being a trout bum, sowithout his okay, I can't forward his copywritten material to the list.If he doesn't pop back in to the list before then, check the issue out.It should be posted at the site on July 1.Thanks,BobAt 04:33 PM 6/19/2001 -0400, Bruce Combest wrote:I am a great deal of info from the list over the past few months and I have a of acetone and Plexiglas, aniline dies (alcohol or water based?) mixedwith the "soup" or prior to the "soup" in anotherstep?I have some plum tree wood that is now dry and PS- HOWDY TO THE "MEMPHIS MAFIA"THAT Ky Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmaking218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 homebmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --=====================_3262763==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jun 19 16:06:51 2001 f5JL6oZ26147 Jun 2001 17:05:26 -0400 Subject: Milward book --=====================_4571593==_.ALT Just wondered if anyone has seen the book yet? I am very excited to get mine, and I am awaiting its arrival. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_4571593==_.ALT get mine, and I am awaiting its arrival. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_4571593==_.ALT-- from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 19 16:49:58 2001 f5JLnvZ27810 Subject: Re: challenger The Challenger was a trade name for the Wright McGill rod Co. They are thesame rods as the Granger series. I think it was The Old Faithful Rod Co.Marty Darin J Law wrote: Has anyone ever heard of a challenger flyrod made in Denver, Colorado andif so, what can you tell me about it?Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 19 17:08:13 2001 f5JM8CZ28587 sender ) Subject: Re: Spar varnish dipping Hi Andy, Yes , use mineral spirits (aka, sub turps, paint thinner). I also havebeen adding a product called Penetrol. I think it makes the stuff worksmoother.Mix in a container and pour in your tube. Best to wait overnight for thebubblesto escape. Marty Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Are mineral spirits ok to thin with? How do you recommend mixing to avoidbubbles...just stir well but don't shake, and then wait a period of time? thx Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 9:55 PM Subject: RE: Spar varnish dipping Hi Stuart,I started out with one litre of spar varnish into which Ipoured 250ml of artist's turpentine. You could probably thin it more if youwanted to. I don't believe the ratios are critical so just experiment tosee what suits you.RegardsMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, 18 June 2001 1:08 Subject: Spar varnish dipping Good morningeveningdaynight !!! Is anybody dipping or dripping using spar varnish? I use Epifanes sparvarnish and want to try drip finishing. Should I thin it down? To whatextent? I have been getting good results brushing this varnish with itthinned by 5% but would like to have a try at dipping my rods to seewhich method is better. Any help and comments are appreciated Thankyou Stuart from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Jun 19 17:09:29 2001 f5JM9RZ28729 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood Anybody ever work with plum? Plum is beautiful, and hard as h*** danny from hartzell@easystreet.com Tue Jun 19 19:08:36 2001 f5K08ZZ00531 Subject: Re: Milward book --------------C62EC5288DC8CC275F1FA6D8 Bob.Mine came today and I can't wait to get into it deeply. It is justas fantastic as Milward himself. Really important and scientificexperiments and conclusions.Ed Bob Maulucci wrote: Just wondered if anyone has seen the book yet? I am very excited toget mine, and I am awaiting its arrival. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --------------C62EC5288DC8CC275F1FA6D8 Bob. important and scientific experiments and conclusions.EdBob Maulucci wrote: I am very excited to get mine, and I am awaiting its arrival. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --------------C62EC5288DC8CC275F1FA6D8-- from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Jun 19 19:26:40 2001 f5K0QdZ01089 Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:25:54 -0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: Blonde rods Shawn, All of my rods are pretty blonde. I use a heat gun (about 4" away) on thepith side until I feel the bamboo "loosen" then I press in a vise. I don'tsee any color change on the front. Pith gets a little brown. I'm sure itsnot as quick as you're used to. Tom AusfeldRochester, NY ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Blonde rods Hi all,"Hi my name is Shawn and I'm a flame-o- holic....." actually thesewill be myfirst blonde rods I have built and I'm looking for some advice onflattening thenodes on a blonde rod vice my standard flamed rods.I have heard of guys soaking the strips before heating and pressingto preventscorching the nodes??? Any advice for this flamer would be appreciated. TIA Shawn from robertgkope@home.com Tue Jun 19 19:42:04 2001 f5K0g3Z01465 femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:41:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Blonde rods Shawn, I use a heat gun to straighten my nodes without soaking my strips, and havenever had a problem with charring on a blond rod. It just takes a littlepatience. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: Blonde rods Hi all,"Hi my name is Shawn and I'm a flame-o- holic....." actually thesewill be myfirst blonde rods I have built and I'm looking for some advice onflattening thenodes on a blonde rod vice my standard flamed rods.I have heard of guys soaking the strips before heating and pressingto preventscorching the nodes??? Any advice for this flamer would be appreciated. TIA Shawn from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jun 19 20:31:26 2001 f5K1VQZ02319 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:58:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm in for a few hours, so figured I'd answer this while I was here. =Leaving early in the morning for Grayling, MI, but I had to fire the =puter back up and see how the list was going.My "soup" is nothing more than plexiglass disolved in acetone. I =just cut or break the plexiglas into small pieces, put it in the acetone = I know there are some out there that also add airplane dope (a =nearly indestructable clear used on model airplanes, available in most =hobby stores). I haven't tried it, but that stuff won't break down =under exposure to the fuels used in Model Airplanes, so I figure it's = Onis, do you use the airplane dope in your mix? If so, if you don't =mind my asking, what percentage do you add to the plexiglass/acetone =mix? Will miss those of you that can't make Grayling (Sorry Harry, but drove = the White Desert... not much water there!) and looking forward to seeing =those that will be there... Later,Bob In the upcoming July issue of Power Fibers, Bob Nunley talks about his =bamboo ferrule experiments, and he outlines how he impregnates the =bamboo ferrule sections with Plexiglass. I know he is off being a trout =bum, so without his okay, I can't forward his copywritten material to =the list. If he doesn't pop back in to the list before then, check the =issue out. It should be posted at the site on July 1.Thanks,Bob Howdy, List... going. = add airplane dope (a nearly indestructable clear used on model = break down under exposure to the fuels used in Model Airplanes, so I = plexiglass/acetone mix? Will miss those of you that can't make Grayling = but drove by the white on the way back and I think they're gonna have to = it the White Desert... not much water there!) and looking forward to = those that will be there... Later,Bob the upcoming July issue of Power Fibers, Bob Nunley talks about his = ferrule experiments, and he outlines how he impregnates the bamboo = sections with Plexiglass. I know he is off being a trout bum, so = okay, I can't forward his copywritten material to the list. If he = back in to the list before then, check the issue out. It should be = the site on July 1.Thanks,Bob from robertgkope@home.com Tue Jun 19 21:01:07 2001 f5K216Z02780 femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules This is a multi-part message in MIME format. List, I just had an enlightening experience removing ferrules attached with =Devcon 2-ton epoxy. I had to remove a ferrule I had mounted with Epoxy. =The ferrule-to-cane fit was snug, I had roughened the inside, and =soaked them in acetone to clean prior to gluing. I glued them on, bound =the tabs tightly with nylon thread, and let them cure for more than 24 =hr before removing binding thread. However, I tried mounting the tabs =over the corners instead of the flats on this rod, and the tabs came =loose so I decided to remove the set and try a different cement. I started with one of the males and heated it with my heat gun on a =relatively low setting. I tried heating and pulling by hand a couple of =times before I decided to get out my ferrule puller. In the mean time I =left the job for 10 min or so and the ferrule cooled. When I put the =ferrule puller on it and pulled on the rod tip to see If I had a good =grip on the ferrule, the tip section just slid out of the ferrule with =no heating and almost no effort. I heated the other male, but couldn't =seem to budge that one so I tried the female. After heating and pulling =a couple of times, I finally got it to move a little and then succeeded =in pulling it off with much effort. When I went back to the now-cool =male, it slid off with very little effort just like the first one. When the female came off, the epoxy was hot and plastic. It got quite =chewed up as I pulled the bond apart. However, the males slid out with =a glass-smooth finish. The epoxy had separated cleanly from the metal. =I've used the same epoxy for ferrules on all the rods I've made, and =never had a ferrule come loose on a finished rod yet. I've also removed =several ferrules in the past, when I forgot to put the winding check on =the butt of 3-pc before gluing the ferrule. In these cases I always had =experiences like the hot removal of this female, which made me think =that epoxy was a pretty good ferrule cement. I found the ease of =removal of these ferrules very disturbing. Lessons learned: 1) don't trust epoxied ferrules that have been heated2) when you need to remove epoxied ferrules, try heating them and =letting them cool. I was fortunate enough to get a hold of Ray Gould at home this past =weekend, and managed to get a tube of Urethane bond adhesive from him. =I re-glued the ferrule I had removed, and glued another ferrule, with =the U-bond, and though it's a little more difficult to work with than =epoxy, it's definitely much more flexible and seems to be quite a bit =more tenacious. (I just realized that one of the rod's I'm currently =working on will be entirely urethane based: PU for gluing the strips, =mounting the ferrules, gluing up the grip and reelseat, and the finish!) =I sure hope this stuff lasts!!!! -- Robert Kope List, I just had an enlightening experience = roughened the inside, and soaked them in acetone to clean prior to = cement. I started with one of the males and = hand a couple of times before I decided to get out my ferrule = the mean time I left the job for 10 min or so and the ferrule = I put the ferrule puller on it and pulled on the rod tip to see If I had = grip on the ferrule, the tip section just slid out of the ferrule with = couple of times, I finally got it to move a little and then succeeded in = off with very little effort just like the first one. When the female came off, the epoxywas = the rods I've made, and never had a ferrule come loose on a finished rod = cases I always had experiences like the hot removal of this female, = removal of these ferrules very disturbing. Lessons learned: 1) don't trust epoxied ferrules that = heated2) when you need to remove epoxied = heating them and letting them cool. this stuff lasts!!!! -- Robert =Kope from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jun 19 23:17:59 2001 f5K4HwZ04883 AAA32745; Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood Hi Bob,Have a very nice time at Grayling. Would like to go with you but work comes first this week. Bob, I add one of the 3.5 oz jars of clear to the Plexiglas soup. I don't know that it performs any real function. When I was playing with dissolving Plexiglas in acetone years ago, I noticed that the plexiglas alone didn't have any adhesive properties, ie. you couldn't use only it as a paint. Kind of fuzzed my mind to think of all that Plexiglas and wood together but not stuck together, so I added the dope to give it some adhesive qualities. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 08:28 PM 6/19/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Howdy, List...I'm in for a few hours, so figured I'd answer this while I was here. Leaving early in the morning for Grayling, MI, but I had to fire the puter back up and see how the list was going.My "soup" is nothing more than plexiglass disolved in acetone. I just cut or break the plexiglas into small pieces, put it in the acetone and keep adding until it is the consistency of syrup.I know there are some out there that also add airplane dope (a nearly indestructable clear used on model airplanes, available in most hobby stores). I haven't tried it, but that stuff won't break down under exposure to the fuels used in Model Airplanes, so I figure it's pretty tough stuff.Onis, do you use the airplane dope in your mix? If so, if you don't mind my asking, what percentage do you add to the plexiglass/acetonemix? Will miss those of you that can't make Grayling (Sorry Harry, but drove by the white on the way back and I think they're gonna have to rename it the White Desert... not much water there!) and looking forward to seeing those that will be there... Later,Bob In the upcoming July issue of Power Fibers, Bob Nunley talks about his bamboo ferrule experiments, and he outlines how he impregnates thebamboo ferrule sections with Plexiglass. I know he is off being a trout bum, so without his okay, I can't forward his copywritten material to the list. If he doesn't pop back in to the list before then, check the issue out. It should be posted at the site on July 1.Thanks,Bob from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jun 19 23:43:48 2001 f5K4hlZ05585 Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood Boy, I'm loosing it. I need to go fishing!! I forgot to finish it. I add one of the 3.5 oz jars of clear dope to about a quart of the Plexiglas soup. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 12:18 AM 6/20/01 -0500, Onis Cogburn wrote:Hi Bob,Have a very nice time at Grayling. Would like to go with you but work comes first this week. Bob, I add one of the 3.5 oz jars of clear to the Plexiglas soup. I don't know that it performs any real function. When I was playing with dissolving Plexiglas in acetone years ago, I noticed that the plexiglas alone didn't have any adhesive properties, ie. you couldn't use only it as a paint. Kind of fuzzed my mind to think of all that Plexiglas and wood together but not stuck together, so I added the dope to give it some adhesive qualities. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 08:28 PM 6/19/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:Howdy, List...I'm in for a few hours, so figured I'd answer this while I was here. Leaving early in the morning for Grayling, MI, but I had to fire the puter back up and see how the list was going.My "soup" is nothing more than plexiglass disolved in acetone. I just cut or break the plexiglas into small pieces, put it in the acetone and keep adding until it is the consistency of syrup.I know there are some out there that also add airplane dope (a nearly indestructable clear used on model airplanes, available in most hobby stores). I haven't tried it, but that stuff won't break down under exposure to the fuels used in Model Airplanes, so I figure it's pretty tough stuff.Onis, do you use the airplane dope in your mix? If so, if you don't mind my asking, what percentage do you add to the plexiglass/acetonemix? Will miss those of you that can't make Grayling (Sorry Harry, but drove the White Desert... not much water there!) and looking forward to seeing those that will be there... Later,Bob In the upcoming July issue of Power Fibers, Bob Nunley talks about hisbamboo ferrule experiments, and he outlines how he impregnates thebamboo ferrule sections with Plexiglass. I know he is off being a trout bum, so without his okay, I can't forward his copywritten material to the list. If he doesn't pop back in to the list before then, check the issue out. It should be posted at the site on July 1.Thanks,Bob from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 20 00:03:21 2001 f5K53KZ06104 Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:03:15 -0700 Subject: Re: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules --------------76B18F0D415469C1269C4924 Robert,Though I've used urethane bond without any problems forabout 25 rods now, I glued a set of ferrules on tonightusing the brand new tube of Urethane Bond that a fellowlister sent me (Thanks Bill!). I learned a lesson the hardway. I fit the ferrules very closely, so I scratched acouple of lines in the bamboo to allow air to escape. Using a toothpick, I coated the inside of the maleferrule on the first tip. Then I smeared a little glue onthe bamboo. When I started pushing things together, theglue was extremely thick. So I just applied medium pressure-- you know, no white knuckles or anything, and keptpushing. In a few seconds everything eased up. One problem-- the ferrule won't seat. When I pulled it off to see if Ihad the ferrule full of glue, the moisture cap on the malewas missing. After a quick but panicked search, I realizedthat the moisture cap had let go and turned sideways on theferrule. Needless to say, I cleaned it all up and startedover. I can't say for sure that it was the glue. Could bethat I had a bad ferrule, but it was from the leading makerof quality ferrules. Might also be that the u-bond glue andair pressure was a lot more than I realized. This isn't a complaint, just a warning -- use thesmallest amount of u-bond necessary to coat the male. Andwatch those moisture plugs.... Harry Robert Kope wrote: I was fortunate enough to get a hold of Ray Gould at homethis past weekend, and managed to get a tube of Urethanebond adhesive from him. I re-glued the ferrule I hadremoved, and glued another ferrule, with the U-bond, andthough it's a little more difficult to work with thanepoxy, it's definitely much more flexible and seems to bequite a bit more tenacious. (I just realized that one ofthe rod's I'm currently working on will be entirelyurethane based: PU for gluing the strips, mounting theferrules, gluing up the grip and reelseat, and thefinish!) I sure hope this stuff lasts!!!! --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------76B18F0D415469C1269C4924 Robert, problems so I scratched a couple of lines in the bamboo to allow air to escape. So I just applied medium pressure -- you know, no white knuckles or anything, I had the ferrule full of glue, the moisture cap on the male was After a quick but panicked search, I realized that the moisture cap had it all up and started over. Could be that I had a bad ferrule, but it was from the leading maker of was a lot more than I realized. thosemoisture plugs.... Robert Kope wrote:I was fortunateenough to get a hold of Ray Gould at home this past weekend, and managed ferrule I had removed, and glued another ferrule, with the U-bond, andthough it's a little more difficult to work with than epoxy, it's definitely just realized that one of the rod's I'm currently working on will be entirelyurethane based: PU for gluing the strips, mounting the ferrules, gluing lasts!!!!--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------76B18F0D415469C1269C4924-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Jun 20 02:10:41 2001 f5K7AeZ08086 Wed, 20 Jun 2001 00:10:34 -0700 Wed, 20 Jun 2001 07:10:34 GMT Subject: Re: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules FILETIME=[1973C670:01C0F958] I can't say for sure that it was the glue. Could bethat I had a bad ferrule, but it was from the leading makerof quality ferrules. Might also be that the u-bond glue andair pressure was a lot more than I realized. ferrules are a persnickety creature to build and I have had defective ferrules from ALL of the commercial suppliers at one time or another. They always made it right though. The only ones that are probably safe from trouble(and the one exception to the above) would be the 'bar stock ferrules' but I have some issues with those too.A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jun 20 04:22:49 2001 f5K9MmZ09338 Wed, 20 Jun 2001 06:21:56 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules Allen Thramer wrote: " The only ones that are probably safe fromtrouble(and the oneexception to the above) would be the 'bar stock ferrules' but I have someissues withthose too." AJ,I'm curious, what issues do you have with the bar stock ferrules?? Shawn from rvenneri@ulster.net Wed Jun 20 04:46:17 2001 f5K9kGZ09651 Subject: tubing To all the guys that are waiting for tubing,I finally have the tube in my shop. I will be cutting it up and shippingstarting tomorrow. Thanks to all for the help. Sorry for taking up thebandwidth but this was best way for me to contact everyone in one email. Best regardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jun 20 07:07:04 2001 f5KC73Z10618 Subject: Re: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules --=====================_349342==_.ALT HI Harry:I seem to recall that the Loctite discussion from last month happened the same way. Major brand ferrules were giving way.Best regards,Bob At 12:01 AM 6/20/2001 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Robert,Though I've used urethane bond without any problems for about 25 rods now, I glued a set of ferrules on tonight using the brand new tube of Urethane Bond that a fellow lister sent me (Thanks Bill!). I learned a lesson the hard way. I fit the ferrules very closely, so I scratched a couple of lines in the bamboo to allow air to escape. Using a toothpick, I coated the inside of the male ferrule on the first tip. Then I smeared a little glue on the bamboo. When I started pushing things together, the glue was extremely thick. So I just applied medium pressure -- you know, no white knuckles or anything, and kept pushing. In a few seconds everything eased up. One problem -- the ferrule won't seat. When I pulled it off to see if I had the ferrule full of glue, the moisture cap on the male was missing. After a quick but panicked search, I realized that the moisture cap had let go and turned sideways on the ferrule. Needless to say, I cleaned it all up and started over. I can't say for sure that it was the glue. Could be that I had a bad ferrule, but it was from the leading maker of quality ferrules. Might also be that the u-bond glue and air pressure was a lot more than Irealized. This isn't a complaint, just a warning -- use the smallest amount of u-bond necessary to coat the male. And watch those moisture plugs.... Harry Robert Kope wrote:I was fortunate enough to get a hold of Ray Gould at home this past weekend, and managed to get a tube of Urethane bond adhesive from him. I re-glued the ferrule I had removed, and glued another ferrule, with the U-bond, and though it's a little more difficult to work with than epoxy, it's definitely much more flexible and seems to be quite a bit more tenacious. (I just realized that one of the rod's I'm currently working on will be entirely urethane based: PU for gluing the strips, mounting the ferrules, gluing up the grip and reelseat, and the finish!) I sure hope this stuff lasts!!!!- -"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --=====================_349342==_.ALT HI Harry:I seem to recall that the Loctite discussion from last month happened thesame way. Major brand ferrules were giving way.Best regards,BobAt 12:01 AM 6/20/2001 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Robert, brand new tube of Urethane Bond that a fellow lister sent me (Thanks very closely, so I scratched a couple of lines in the bamboo to allow airto escape. When I pulled it off to see if I had the ferrule full of glue, the search, I realized that the moisture cap had let go and turned sideways over. be that I had a bad ferrule, but it was from the leading maker of quality lot more than I realized. those moisture plugs.... Robert Kope wrote: I was fortunate enoughto get a hold of Ray Gould at home this past weekend, and managed to get had removed, and glued another ferrule, with the U-bond, and though it'sa little more difficult to work with than epoxy, it's definitely much realized that one of the rod's I'm currently working on will be entirelyurethane based: PU for gluing the strips, mounting the ferrules, gluing lasts!!!!-- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -Bamboo Rods -- Our --=====================_349342==_.ALT-- from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Jun 20 07:44:03 2001 f5KCi1Z11331 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood Hello, I think I missed something, what do you do with the plexiglass soup? ThanksTom AusfeldRochester, NY from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 20 08:11:38 2001 f5KDBbZ11879 Wed, 20 Jun 2001 06:11:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood Tom,In case Bob is already headed to Grayrock, I'll respond. You canuse the soup to impregnate wood for reel seat fillers, or to impregnatethe bamboo ferrules Bob had used a few times. With fillers, just dropthem in the soup and wait a few days, or pressurize them in an iron pipe. Female ferrules can be dropped in the same as reel seats. Maleferrules just have to soak a little while. Hope this helps,Harry Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Hello, I think I missed something, what do you do with the plexiglass soup? ThanksTom AusfeldRochester, NY --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 09:17:43 2001 f5KEHgZ14887 (63.225.233.56) "Rodmakers" User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood Bob, Onis, Harry, et al. Dumb question for you, but what do you put the mixture in? Will any oldclean metal can do, or is it preferable to use glass jars? Jason Swan On 6/20/01 7:09 AM, "Harry Boyd" wrote: Tom,In case Bob is already headed to Grayrock, I'll respond. You canuse the soup to impregnate wood for reel seat fillers, or to impregnatethe bamboo ferrules Bob had used a few times. With fillers, just dropthem in the soup and wait a few days, or pressurize them in an iron pipe. Female ferrules can be dropped in the same as reel seats. Maleferrules just have to soak a little while. Hope this helps,Harry Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Hello, I think I missed something, what do you do with the plexiglass soup? ThanksTom AusfeldRochester, NY --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 20 09:26:36 2001 f5KEQaZ15852 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Stabilizing wood Metal or glass either with a well sealing lid. Anything that you can storeacetone in will work. Lifetime stored is infinite. If it dries out, you just addmore acetone and let it dissolve. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com jvswan@earthlink.net wrote:Bob, Onis, Harry, et al. Dumb question for you, but what do you put the mixture in? Will any oldclean metal can do, or is it preferable to use glass jars? Jason Swan On 6/20/01 7:09 AM, "Harry Boyd" wrote: Tom,In case Bob is already headed to Grayrock, I'll respond. You canuse the soup to impregnate wood for reel seat fillers, or to impregnatethe bamboo ferrules Bob had used a few times. With fillers, just dropthem in the soup and wait a few days, or pressurize them in an iron pipe. Female ferrules can be dropped in the same as reel seats. Maleferrules just have to soak a little while. Hope this helps,Harry Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Hello, I think I missed something, what do you do with the plexiglass soup? ThanksTom AusfeldRochester, NY --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 20 09:31:21 2001 f5KEVKZ16418 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules AJ, what problems have you seen with the barstock ferrules. I make my own from barstock so I would like to know of any potential problems. Thanks abunch. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com ajthramer@hotmail.com wrote:I can't say for sure that it was the glue. Could bethat I had a bad ferrule, but it was from the leading makerof quality ferrules. Might also be that the u-bond glue andair pressure was a lot more than I realized. ferrules are a persnickety creature to build and I have had defective ferrules from ALL of the commercial suppliers at one time or another. They always made it right though. The only ones that are probably safe from trouble(and the one exception to the above) would be the 'bar stock ferrules' but I have some issues with those too.A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Jun 20 09:37:43 2001 f5KEbgZ16750 Subject: RE: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules I have seen the same thing happen when I used rod building epoxy forferrules. I don't know what kind of epoxy it was, it was the stuff sold forand used by grpahite rod builders to attach reelseats and grips. Afterheating and cooling it failed pretty easily. On one rod I rebuilt, I reusedthe old chrome plated brass ferrules. The ferrule to cane fit was prettypoor, so I glopped on extra epoxy. The female didn't cure straight so Iheated it up and realigned it. A few uses later when I broke the rod downthe female ferrule came off, leaving the glass smooth surface described. Ihave since switched to hot melt ferrule adhesive. If the epoxy is not goingto work any better than the hot melt, might as well use the hot melt. from EESweet@aol.com Wed Jun 20 09:50:48 2001 f5KEolZ17370 MAILINID97-0620105039; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:50:39 -0400 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Roughing plane? Seeing as you're a Morgan Handmill owner, I would havethought you would have no more use for planes...:-) Or is it just easier torough plane the strips before breaking out the handmill? Eric I had a Stanley 9 1/2 for roughing, and Record 9 1/2 and an LN 212 scraper the Union for roughing from now on. It is bigger and heavier, but not by aheck of a lot, and the rear handle makes it easier to control. I find iteasier to feel if the plane is flat to the forms, and it can be set to takeoff a lot in one pass. It can also be easily set to take off a fairly fineshaving also. Along with the superior blade, I'm using this as my roughingplane from now on.Darryl from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Jun 20 10:18:08 2001 f5KFI4Z18390 to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good fit on my ferrules, =can someone give some pointers. I use 600 grit paper about a 1/4" wide =and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I have read =about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom Ausfeld Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good = 1/4" wide and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I = about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom Ausfeld from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Jun 20 10:18:25 2001 f5KFIOZ18459 to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Fitting ferrules... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good fit on my ferrules, =can someone give some pointers. I use 600 grit paper about a 1/4" wide =and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I have read =about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom Ausfeld Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good = 1/4" wide and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I = about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom Ausfeld from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jun 20 11:50:20 2001 f5KGoEZ22512 Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:50:01 -0700 Subject: Re: --------------5411903EECB7153B08633900 Tom,Are you referring to the metal to bamboo fit? Or themetal to metal fit? Harry Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY goodfit on my ferrules, can someone give some pointers. I use600 grit paper about a 1/4" wide and slowly work up theferrule, test fitting very often. I have read about filesand stones but I don't understand to use them withoutgetting a flat spot.Thanks Tom Ausfeld --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------5411903EECB7153B08633900 Tom, Or the metal to metal fit? Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: having a difficult time getting a REALLY good fit on my ferrules, cansomeone work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I have read about files andstones but I don't understand to use them without getting a flat Ausfeld --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------5411903EECB7153B08633900-- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 11:59:36 2001 f5KGxaZ22866 JAA26822; Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I have a couple of old plane blades and one is of fine quality and the otheris not. I use a hock and it is about the same as the older blade. Darryl, Ithought you were using the Hand Mill? Is that still the case? Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades to be my roughing plane requiring sharpening about twice when roughing outa rod. >> I had a Stanley 9 1/2 for roughing, and Record 9 1/2 and an LN 212scraper usethe Union for roughing from now on. It is bigger and heavier, but not by aheck of a lot, and the rear handle makes it easier to control. I find iteasier to feel if the plane is flat to the forms, and it can be set totakeoff a lot in one pass. It can also be easily set to take off a fairly fineshaving also. Along with the superior blade, I'm using this as my roughingplane from now on.Darryl from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 11:59:44 2001 f5KGxhZ22909 JAA27445; Subject: Re: Fitting ferrules... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Tom, Try using 1000 grit, it can be bought from autobody supply house. Start =with 1/4 inch and loop it around the male and slowing turn the rod =section a few turns. The sand paper should be worked up as the ferrule =start to enter the female. It seems to be slow going but it actually is =only about 30minute untill it seats, for me anyway. Be careful as it =aproaches to be fully seated only a 1 or 2 two turns and it will seat =fully. The 600 grit should work but it may be loading up the female with =dust as you are inserting it. I polish the male with a cloth a few turns =before I attempt to insert the ferrule. Adam If you done all of this...sorry I couldnt be more help Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 8:14 AMSubject: Fitting ferrules... Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good fit on my ferrules, =can someone give some pointers. I use 600 grit paper about a 1/4" wide =and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I have read =about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom Ausfeld Hi Tom, Try using 1000 grit, it can be bought = supply house. Start with 1/4 inch and loop it around the male and = the rod section a few turns. The sand paper should be worked up as the = only about 30minute untill it seats, for me anyway. Be careful as it = to be fully seated only a 1 or 2 two turns and it will seat fully. The = should work but it may be loading up the female with dust as you are = it. I polish the male with a cloth a few turns before I attempt to = ferrule. Adam If you done all of this...sorry I = help ----- Original Message ----- and Tom Ausfeld Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001= AMSubject: Fitting =ferrules... Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good = 1/4" wide and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I = about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom =Ausfeld from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 12:10:46 2001 f5KHAjZ23500 (63.225.233.56) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Another ferrule question f5KHAjZ23502 Every once and a while someone talks appreciatively about some ferrulestation cutters that someone makes. It seems like the people that use themlike them. So, here1s my question: are those cutters to be used with alathe? Or is it a stand-alone tool that can be used? Jason Swan from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Wed Jun 20 12:14:06 2001 f5KHE5Z23787 pri.pacificare.com 2001 17:16:07 UT (Tumbleweed ; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:13:57 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Some Handmill owners had a problem with the planing unit where it slidesover the rail. Tom Morgan issued a recall of all the Handmill planing units,paying postage both ways himself, fixing the potential problem at no cost tothe owner. For various reasons I was unable to make rods for the last 8months, so I never sent my planing unit back to him until a week ago. So, Icannot use my handmill for a few weeks. Also, there is no reason I cannot look for things that might make it easier planing.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I have a couple of old plane blades and one is of fine quality and theotheris not. I use a hock and it is about the same as the older blade. Darryl,Ithought you were using the Hand Mill? Is that still the case? Adam----- Original Message -----From: Hayashida Darryl Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 8:27 AMSubject: RE: Old Plane Blades to be my roughing plane requiring sharpening about twice when roughingouta rod. >> I had a Stanley 9 1/2 for roughing, and Record 9 1/2 and an LN 212scraper usethe Union for roughing from now on. It is bigger and heavier, but not byaheck of a lot, and the rear handle makes it easier to control. I find iteasier to feel if the plane is flat to the forms, and it can be set totakeoff a lot in one pass. It can also be easily set to take off a fairlyfineshaving also. Along with the superior blade, I'm using this as myroughingplane from now on.Darryl from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Jun 20 13:31:48 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f5KIVmZ26741 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Maybe this explains something odd I've noticed. I've been using foamingpolyurethane glue on ferrules and I've noticed that after a few months themales aren't quite as snug as they should be, even when I've dressed themoriginally to barely fit. One usually hears about the reverse problem --that the males get tighter. I wonder if my problem is due to a gradualreduction of gas pressure in the male. Perhaps the gas gradually diffusesout through the glue, or something like that. Has anyone else noticed this? BK -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules Robert, Though I've used urethane bond without any problems for about 25 rodsnow, I glued a set of ferrules on tonight using the brand new tube ofUrethane Bond that a fellow lister sent me (Thanks Bill!). I learned alesson the hard way. I fit the ferrules very closely, so I scratched acouple of lines in the bamboo to allow air to escape. Using a toothpick, I coated the inside of the male ferrule on the firsttip. Then I smeared a little glue on the bamboo. When I started pushingthings together, the glue was extremely thick. So I just applied mediumpressure -- you know, no white knuckles or anything, and kept pushing. In afew seconds everything eased up. One problem -- the ferrule won't seat.When I pulled it off to see if I had the ferrule full of glue, the moisturecap on the male was missing. After a quick but panicked search, I realizedthat the moisture cap had let go and turned sideways on the ferrule.Needless to say, I cleaned it all up and started over. I can't say for sure that it was the glue. Could be that I had a badferrule, but it was from the leading maker of quality ferrules. Might alsobe that the u-bond glue and air pressure was a lot more than I realized. This isn't a complaint, just a warning -- use the smallest amount ofu-bond necessary to coat the male. And watch those moisture plugs.... Harry Robert Kope wrote: I was fortunate enough to get a hold of Ray Gould at home this past weekend,and managed to get a tube of Urethane bond adhesive from him. I re-gluedthe ferrule I had removed, and glued another ferrule, with the U-bond, andthough it's a little more difficult to work with than epoxy, it's definitelymuch more flexible and seems to be quite a bit more tenacious. (I justrealized that one of the rod's I'm currently working on will be entirelyurethane based: PU for gluing the strips, mounting the ferrules, gluing upthe grip and reelseat, and the finish!) I sure hope this stuff lasts!!!! -- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ - - Our Church -- Maybe this explains something odd I've noticed. I've been using foaming polyurethane glue on ferrules and I've noticed that after a few months the males aren'tquite as snug as they should be, even when I've dressed them originally to barelyfit. One usually hears about the reverse problem -- that the males get tighter. I wonder if my problem is due to a gradual reduction of gas pressure in themale. Perhaps the gas gradually diffuses out through the glue, or something likethat. Has anyone else noticed this? BK -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd 12:02 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: tip/warning forremoval of epoxied ferrulesRobert, I've used urethane bond without any problems for about 25 rods now, I glueda set of ferrules on tonight using the brand new tube of Urethane Bond that a Using medium pressure -- you know, no white knuckles or anything, and kept won't search, I realized that the moisture cap had let go and turned sideways on the Could be that I had a bad ferrule, but it was from the leading maker of quality lot more than I realized. those moisture plugs.... Robert Kope wrote: I wasfortunate enough to get a hold of Ray Gould at home this past weekend, andmanaged to ferrule I had removed, and glued another ferrule, with the U-bond, and though it'sa little more difficult to work with than epoxy, it's definitely much more that one of the rod's I'm currently working on will be entirely urethane based: PU for gluing the strips, mounting the ferrules, gluing up the grip lasts!!!!-- "Simon Peter saith untothem, I go -- Bamboo from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Jun 20 13:55:34 2001 f5KItXZ27793 Subject: Re: Tip/Warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm confused . Are you guys talking about the fit of theferrules to each other or the fit of the ferrule to the bamboo. Barry =are you saying your ferrules are loosening up on the bamboo or to each =other?I wouldn't think that the air pressure would collapsethe ferrule as not to fit to the female. It would be like if you pulled =the air out of a sealed can. The can would NOT collapse uniformly.i.e =almost impossible. Now if your talking about theferrule to bamboo fit loosening up, That would almost certainly be =caused by one of two things. In proper mixing of the glue( if your using =a PU glue I would think this would not apply) or the glue is not =adhering to either the cane or the ferrule. Most likely the ferrule.There could be a third a loose fit, but you stated that you fit them =tightly so I would not think that would be the problem. Feel free to =correct me if I'm wrong. I use epoxy glue to glue ferrules. No loose =ferrules yet.Tony Miller I'm confused . Are you guys talking = of theferrules to each other or the fit of the= bamboo or to each other? collapse = ferrule to bamboo fit loosening up,That = almost certainly be caused by one of two things. In proper mixing of the = ferrule.There could be a third a loose fit, but = that you fit them tightly so I would not think that would be the = free to correct me if I'm wrong. I use epoxy glue to glue ferrules. No = ferrules yet.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Jun 20 13:58:27 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f5KIwRZ28010 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Tip/Warning This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Tony -- I'm saying that the male ferrule's fit in the female ferrule is looser aftera few months. Maybe I should just switch to epoxy... BK -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tip/Warning I'm confused . Are you guys talking about the fit of theferrules to each other or the fit of the ferrule to the bamboo. Barry areyou saying your ferrules are loosening up on the bamboo or to each other?I wouldn't think that the air pressure would collapsethe ferrule as not to fit to the female. It would be like if you pulled theair out of a sealed can. The can would NOT collapse uniformly.i.e almostimpossible. Now if your talking about theferrule to bamboo fit loosening up, That would almost certainly be caused byone of two things. In proper mixing of the glue( if your using a PU glue Iwould think this would not apply) or the glue is not adhering to either thecane or the ferrule. Most likely the ferrule.There could be a third a loose fit, but you stated that you fit them tightlyso I would not think that would be the problem. Feel free to correct me ifI'm wrong. I use epoxy glue to glue ferrules. No loose ferrules yet.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Tony -- I'm saying that the male ferrule's fit in the female ferrule is looser after a few months. Maybe I should just switch to epoxy... BK -----Original Message-----From: Tony Miller 1:55 Re: Tip/WarningI'm confused . Are you guys talkingabout the fit of theferrules to each other or the fit of theferrule on the bamboo or to each other? pressure would collapsethe ferrule as not to fit to the pulled ferrule to bamboo fit loosening up, Thatwould almost certainly be caused by one of two things. In proper mixing of theglue( is not adhering to either the cane or the ferrule. Most likely the ferrule.There could be a third a loose fit, butyou stated that you fit them tightly so I would not think that would be the problem. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I use epoxy glue to glue ferrules. No loose ferrules yet.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Jun 20 14:09:38 2001 f5KJ9aZ28738 Subject: Re: Tip /Warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. OK I see. I don't think its the glue that would cause that.More likely wear or temperature change. Just a guess.Although I do think epoxy is the better choice. would cause that.More likely wear or temperaturechange. = guess. choice.Tony = from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 16:03:07 2001 f5KL36Z03618 OAA19129; Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I am looking forward to getting a handmill someday. I must admithandplanning is therapuetic and I to do enjoy it. I think I might getmyself in trouble with a hand mill. I already have to many rods and ahandmill might add very quickly to that #. Maybe a handplane is the higherpowers way of slowing some of us down. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Also, there is no reason I cannot look for things that might make iteasier handplaning.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I have a couple of old plane blades and one is of fine quality and theotheris not. I use a hock and it is about the same as the older blade.Darryl,Ithought you were using the Hand Mill? Is that still the case? Adam----- Original Message -----From: Hayashida Darryl Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 8:27 AMSubject: RE: Old Plane Blades to be my roughing plane requiring sharpening about twice when roughingouta rod. >> I had a Stanley 9 1/2 for roughing, and Record 9 1/2 and an LN 212scraper willusethe Union for roughing from now on. It is bigger and heavier, but notbyaheck of a lot, and the rear handle makes it easier to control. I finditeasier to feel if the plane is flat to the forms, and it can be set totakeoff a lot in one pass. It can also be easily set to take off a fairlyfineshaving also. Along with the superior blade, I'm using this as myroughingplane from now on.Darryl from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 16:03:11 2001 f5KL3BZ03623 OAA19315; Subject: Re: Tip/Warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Tony What epoxy glue are you using at present? I used some epon ferrule epoxy =I bought from Monroe Rod Co. and it took almost 3 days to set up. I =weighed the glue on grain scale to get a 1:1 mix. Maybe it should have =been 1:1 by volume. The air temp was cold, for So.Cal anyway. I have =contemplated on using Gorilla Glue or golfsmith epoxy. Any input from =others is welcome. Adam Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 11:55 AMSubject: Re: Tip/Warning I'm confused . Are you guys talking about the fit of theferrules to each other or the fit of the ferrule to the bamboo. Barry =are you saying your ferrules are loosening up on the bamboo or to each =other?I wouldn't think that the air pressure would collapsethe ferrule as not to fit to the female. It would be like if you =pulled the air out of a sealed can. The can would NOT collapse =uniformly.i.e almost impossible. Now if your talking about theferrule to bamboo fit loosening up, That would almost certainly be =caused by one of two things. In proper mixing of the glue( if your using =a PU glue I would think this would not apply) or the glue is not =adhering to either the cane or the ferrule. Most likely the ferrule.There could be a third a loose fit, but you stated that you fit them =tightly so I would not think that would be the problem. Feel free to =correct me if I'm wrong. I use epoxy glue to glue ferrules. No loose =ferrules yet.Tony Miller Tony What epoxy glue are you using at = some epon ferrule epoxy I bought from Monroe Rod Co. and it took almost = should have been 1:1 by volume. The air temp was cold, for So.Cal = contemplated on using Gorilla Glue or golfsmith epoxy. Any input from = welcome. Adam ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001= AMSubject: Re: Tip/Warning I'm confused . Are you guys talking = fit of theferrules to each other or the fit of = the bamboo or to each other? would collapse = ferrule to bamboo fit loosening up, = almost certainly be caused by one of two things. In proper mixing of = ferrule.There could be a third a loose fit, = stated that you fit them tightly so I would not think that would be = problem. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I use epoxy glue to = ferrules. No loose ferrules yet.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Jun 20 16:35:26 2001 f5KLZPZ04845 Subject: Re: Tip /Warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I use Devcon 5 minute epoxy.I use the set that comes in two separate tubes that must be mixed. I mix =it with a tooth pick on a piece ofcard board. The ratio is 50/50. Pretty basic I guess.But I've had very good luck with it. I've done alot of restorations as =well as make my own rods and this is what I use for the ferrules, tip =tops,and reel seats. As far as I know none have failed. Hope that helps. =I thought thats how everyone did it. I'm going to Greyrock this weekend =and I think someone is going to give a demo on ferrule fitting. I'm = Tony Miller I use Devcon 5 minute =epoxy. piece ofcard board. The ratio is 50/50. Pretty= guess.But I've had very good luck with it. = alot of restorations as well as make my own rods and this is what I use = that helps. I thought thats how everyone did it. I'm going to Greyrock = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from hartzell@easystreet.com Wed Jun 20 18:10:19 2001 f5KNAIZ06647 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: tip/warning for removal of epoxied ferrules Bob,The only trouble I ever had with bar stock ferrules was to run across avoid in themetal while I was making the ferrule. This happened only once.Ed Shawn Pineo wrote: Allen Thramer wrote: " The only ones that are probably safe fromtrouble(and the oneexception to the above) would be the 'bar stock ferrules' but I have someissues withthose too." AJ,I'm curious, what issues do you have with the bar stock ferrules?? Shawn from channer@frontier.net Wed Jun 20 18:54:27 2001 f5KNsQZ07253 Subject: Re: Another ferrule question Jason;They are to be used with a lathe, they are chucked in a jacobs chuck inthe tailstock and run up onto the end of the blank as it is turned bythe lathe.John Jason Swan wrote: Every once and a while someone talks appreciatively about some ferrulestation cutters that someone makes. It seems like the people that usethemlike them. So, here1s my question: are those cutters to be used with alathe? Or is it a stand-alone tool that can be used? Jason Swan from channer@frontier.net Wed Jun 20 19:02:48 2001 f5L02mZ07471 Subject: Re: Tip/Warning Guys;If you are going to use an epoxy glue for ferrules, don't use anythingyou can buy at the hardware store , specially if it says Devcon anywhereon the package, you'll be sorry someday. Accraglas Gel(green box) willbond them as close to permanently as 2 different materials can get. Iwould imagine that the golf shaft formula's will work well,too. Everyferrule I ever glued with a Devcon product failed. We are dealing with 2different materials with different rates of expansion and contraction,so we need an adhesive with a bit of flexibility, otherwise, when themetal moves, the bond is broken.John from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Jun 20 20:14:14 2001 f5L1EDZ08430 Subject: Re: Tip /Warning In a message dated 6/20/01 4:36:12 PM Central Daylight Time, flyfish@defnet.com writes: I have used Devcon for stuff like this too, but my FAVORITE is SIG! They make a couple of different versions, from 5 minute to 30 minute and the mixture varies too. but each has clear instructions. Get it from Hobby Shops. SIG is a model airplane manufacturing company from Montezuma Iowaand has a first rate reputation. My ONLY interest in this is the huge amount of money I have "invested" in SIG models, plans, parts, wood, glue, etc etc etc over the years! Also, HAzel is a nice person. I spent a rainy afternoon sitting under the wing of her Clipped wing Piper Cub on a Fathers Day one year during the annual "fly in" with her and a couple of other model airplane people. But I digress! Tip here. Put the epoxy on, slip the piece on and use a heat gun to gently heat the area, allowing the epoxy to turn "watery" and flow. This will help it to flow into all the tiny crevices and voids and give you better grip. I suppose that this will work with any epoxy. This helps speed the furing as well. Use alcohol to clean up any excess drips. mark from thogan@rochester.rr.com Wed Jun 20 20:30:23 2001 f5L1UNZ08741 f5L1Smf02534 Subject: Hot Melt Glue and Ferrules This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I have been using a hot melt glue for attaching ferrules and tip topswithout any adverse affects. It certainly is easy to use and to fix =lateron. I never had one come off either. Are there any reasons not to use a =hotmelt glue?Thanks using a hot melt glue for attaching ferrules and tip topswithout any = affects. It certainly is easy to use and to fix lateron. I never had = glue?Thanks from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Jun 20 20:31:10 2001 f5L1V8Z08861 Subject: Re: Tip /Warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. John maybe it was the way you applied the glue.I apply the epoxy to both pieces and press the bamboo into the ferrule =so the air escapes. On restorations where the fit may be a little more =loose, I turn the ferrule 90* after I fit it with the glue. I have =ferrules going on 7 & 8 years and no failures yet. How long after you =glued with Devcon did your ferrules let go?I would be interested. I think that " don't use anything of the hardware =shelf" is kind of a myth( pu glues can bebought off the shelf at Lowes) and I know alot of people are using it = read Mark's input on this too (hi Mark!) If your going to heat the epoxy =make sure it is a heat set epoxy. If it is not, it is sure to fail. I =hear alot of guys heat setting epoxy and then having glue failures. You =can only heat set with an epoxy made for that. The types of epoxy I use =do not require heat setting. And no failures yet. Try to remember that =any glue pushed past its shear point will fail. I guess thats why this =confuses me. Did your ferrules come apart while fishing or while =separating the ferrules? I'll ask the Jedi Masters ,this weekend atGreyrock, and see what they think.LOLBest regardsTony Miller John maybe it was the way you applied= glue.I apply the epoxy to both pieces and = bamboo into the ferrule so the air escapes. On restorations where the = a little more loose, I turn the ferrule 90* after I fit it with the = ferrules going on 7 & 8 years and no failures yet. How long after = with Devcon did your ferrules let go?I would be interested. I think that " = anything of the hardware shelf" is kind of a myth( pu glues can =bebought off the shelf at Lowes) and I = going to heat the epoxy make sure it is a heat set epoxy. If it is not, = sure to fail. I hear alot of guys heat setting epoxy and then having = epoxy I use do not require heat setting. And no failures yet. Try to = that any glue pushed past its shear point will fail. I guess thats why = confuses me. Did your ferrules come apart while fishing or while = ferrules? I'll ask the Jedi Masters ,this weekend atGreyrock, and see what they =think.LOLBest regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from dryfly@erols.com Wed Jun 20 20:53:54 2001 f5L1rrZ09252 ([208.58.192.11] helo=homeserver) Subject: Re: Tip/Warning I agree Accraglas (available from Brownells) is the way to go, I've used itever since John Zimny recommened it at the Carlisle gathering a few yearsback, never a problem. Bob----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tip/Warning Guys;If you are going to use an epoxy glue for ferrules, don't use anythingyou can buy at the hardware store , specially if it says Devcon anywhereon the package, you'll be sorry someday. Accraglas Gel(green box) willbond them as close to permanently as 2 different materials can get. Iwould imagine that the golf shaft formula's will work well,too. Everyferrule I ever glued with a Devcon product failed. We are dealing with 2different materials with different rates of expansion and contraction,so we need an adhesive with a bit of flexibility, otherwise, when themetal moves, the bond is broken.John from channer@frontier.net Wed Jun 20 21:49:37 2001 f5L2nZZ10092 Subject: Re: Tip /Warning Tony;The first 6 rods I made I used Devcon 2 ton and 5 minute on(I forget howmany of each), I cleaned with acetone and roughed up the inside of theferrules with 100 grit, the same regimen I have followed since rod oneand continue to rod 30 something, all 6 failed within a year, and all 6failed at every ferrule. I think that it had to do with going thruseveral wide temerature changes, the stuff won't hold up to wide swingsin temp, it makes the metal move too much. All but 2 of these were myown rods, which are forced by their cruel owner to suffer thru lifebehind the seat of his van, year around, and fished without warm up orpre-exercise of any kind. It's a Darwinian world and only the strongsurvive. Since I have used Accraglas, I have not had a failure of anykind(at least not that I have been told of), since I do the same prep Idid with Devcon, I can only blame the glue.I am glad that you have hadsuccess with Devcon, I wouldn't wish the failures I have had with it onanyone.John Tony Miller wrote: John maybe it was the way you applied the glue.I apply the epoxy to both pieces and press the bamboo into the ferruleso the air escapes. On restorations where the fit may be a little moreloose, I turn the ferrule 90* after I fit it with the glue. I haveferrules going on 7 & 8 years and no failures yet. How long after youglued with Devcon did your ferrules let go?I would be interested. I think that " don't use anything of thehardware shelf" is kind of a myth( pu glues can bebought off the shelf at Lowes) and I know alot of people are using it just read Mark's input on this too (hi Mark!) If your going to heatthe epoxy make sure it is a heat set epoxy. If it is not, it is sureto fail. I hear alot of guys heat setting epoxy and then having gluefailures. You can only heat set with an epoxy made for that. The typesof epoxy I use do not require heat setting. And no failures yet. Tryto remember that any glue pushed past its shear point will fail. Iguess thats why this confuses me. Did your ferrules come apart whilefishing or while separating the ferrules? I'll ask the Jedi Masters,this weekend atGreyrock, and see what they think.LOLBest regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Jun 20 22:30:02 2001 f5L3U0Z10811 Subject: Re:Tip /Warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. JohnThanks for the info.I use a much finer sand paper to clean the I don't want to ruff up the inside of the ferrule just clean it. My =thinking here is that if you ruff the metal up you will not get =capillary attraction. Just in case anyone reading is not familiar with =this , it is when you put a liquid between two flat surfaces like glass.The water will flow between the glass and the glasswill be hard to separate. If dirt or air bubbles are present then the =glass would separate easily. I learned this in the Navy as a Hull Tech. =We silver brazed brass/bronze pipes into fittings. We had to test and =qualify to do this. They would ultra sound the pipes(yes just like when =the wife is having a baby) . If you ruffed the pipe up you would fail =every time. (week bond because it stopped the capillary attraction) so =the pipe & fitting had to be smooth(like a mirror) and veryclean.Silver Braze bonds like glue(it is not a weld) Maybe this is the =case here . But if what your using is working I'm NOT trying to get you =to change.This is just food for thought. Maybe it was the preparation and not the =glue. Well thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. I'm always open for = Best regardsTony Miller JohnThanks for the info.I use a much finer sand paper to theinside of the ferrule. I don't want to ruff up the inside of = just clean it. My thinking here is that if you ruff the metal up you = get capillary attraction. Just in case anyone reading is not familiar = glass.The water will flow between the glass = glasswill be hard to separate. If dirt or air = are present then the glass would separate easily. I learned this in the = test and qualify to do this. They would ultra sound the pipes(yes just = time. (week bond because it stopped the capillary attraction) so the = = change.This is just food for thought. Maybe it= preparation and not the glue. Well thanks for sharing your thoughts on = always open for new ideas and discussion. Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jun 21 05:23:23 2001 f5LANMZ14349 sender ) Subject: Re: Hot Melt Glue and Ferrules --------------B6B76C4A746D9C7BFB066F4B I have been using hot melt glue (Ferrule-Tite) for the last 5 years. Iswitched at the time from Epoxy . I have been very satisfied with theproduct. Marty taylor hogan wrote: I have been using a hot melt glue for attaching ferrules and tip topswithout any adverse affects. It certainly is easy to use and to fixlateron. I never had one come off either. Are there any reasons not to usea hotmelt glue?Thanks --------------B6B76C4A746D9C7BFB066F4B I have been using hot melt glue (Ferrule-Tite) for the last 5 years. Iswitched at the time from Epoxy . I have been very satisfied with theproduct.Martytaylor hogan wrote: Ihave been using a hot melt glue for attaching ferrules and tiptopswithout any adverseaffects.It certainly is easy to use and to fix lateron. I never had onecomeoff either. Are there any reasons not to use a hotmeltglue?Thanks --------------B6B76C4A746D9C7BFB066F4B-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jun 21 06:33:16 2001 f5LBXEZ15507 f5LBX1S13657; Subject: Re: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Tom I have and use paper down to 2000 grit from the auto body shop; and =nevertheless I couldn't get a good fit if I didn't use fine steel wool. =I know that the purists all have objections to this stuff, but it works = Don't take your mind off the job, though, for even a blink, because it's =really frightening how, after seeming to take ages to get it about =right, you seem to be able to undersize the damned thing in about a =picosecond! A.M.H.I.K. Peter Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:14 AM Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good fit on my ferrules, =can someone give some pointers. I use 600 grit paper about a 1/4" wide =and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I have read =about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom Ausfeld Tom I have and use paper down to 2000 grit= auto body shop; and nevertheless I couldn't get a good fit if I didn't = steel wool. I know that the purists all have objections to this stuff, = works for me! Don't take your mind off the job, = a blink, because it's really frightening how, after seeming to take ages = it about right, you seem to be able to undersize the damned thing in = picosecond! A.M.H.I.K. Peter ----- Original Message ----- and Tom Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 = AM Hello, I'm having a difficult time getting a REALLY good = 1/4" wide and slowly work up the ferrule, test fitting very often. I = about files and stones but I don't understand to use them without = Thanks Tom =Ausfeld from jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu Jun 21 06:46:10 2001 f5LBk9Z15772 Subject: Re: Tip /Warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm going to have to side with John. Devcon did not work for me, and I =was scrupulous in the ferrule preparation. I've gone to Epon and haven't =had any troubles as yet, but I'm still looking for something better. Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 7:30 PMSubject: Re: Tip /Warning John maybe it was the way you applied the glue.I apply the epoxy to both pieces and press the bamboo into the ferrule =so the air escapes. On restorations where the fit may be a little more =loose, I turn the ferrule 90* after I fit it with the glue. I have =ferrules going on 7 & 8 years and no failures yet. How long after you =glued with Devcon did your ferrules let go?I would be interested. I think that " don't use anything of the =hardware shelf" is kind of a myth( pu glues can bebought off the shelf at Lowes) and I know alot of people are using it = read Mark's input on this too (hi Mark!) If your going to heat the epoxy =make sure it is a heat set epoxy. If it is not, it is sure to fail. I =hear alot of guys heat setting epoxy and then having glue failures. You =can only heat set with an epoxy made for that. The types of epoxy I use =do not require heat setting. And no failures yet. Try to remember that =any glue pushed past its shear point will fail. I guess thats why this =confuses me. Did your ferrules come apart while fishing or while =separating the ferrules? I'll ask the Jedi Masters ,this weekend atGreyrock, and see what they think.LOLBest regardsTony Miller I'm going to have to side with John. = work for me, and I was scrupulous in the ferrule preparation. I've gone = and haven't had any troubles as yet, but I'm still looking for something = better. Jim ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Tip /Warning John maybe it was the way you applied= glue.I apply the epoxy to both pieces and = bamboo into the ferrule so the air escapes. On restorations where the = be a little more loose, I turn the ferrule 90* after I fit it with the = have ferrules going on 7 & 8 years and no failures yet. How long = glued with Devcon did your ferrules let go?I would be interested. I think that " = bebought off the shelf at Lowes) and I = going to heat the epoxy make sure it is a heat set epoxy. If it is = sure to fail. I hear alot of guys heat setting epoxy and then having = epoxy I use do not require heat setting. And no failures yet. Try to = that any glue pushed past its shear point will fail. I guess thats why = confuses me. Did your ferrules come apart while fishing or while = the ferrules? I'll ask the Jedi Masters ,this weekend at think.LOLBest regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 21 08:04:27 2001 f5LD4QZ16780 GAA02353 GAA10087 (5.5.2650.21) "'Adam Vigil'" Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades a handmill is hand planing, the difference is that the plane has two blades andcuts both sides at one pass. Twice as therapeutic! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I am looking forward to getting a handmill someday. I must admithandplanning is therapuetic and I to do enjoy it. I think I might getmyself in trouble with a hand mill. I already have to many rods and ahandmill might add very quickly to that #. Maybe a handplane is the higherpowers way of slowing some of us down. Adam----- Original Message -----From: Hayashida Darryl Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 10:13 AMSubject: RE: Old Plane Blades Also, there is no reason I cannot look for things that might make iteasier handplaning.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I have a couple of old plane blades and one is of fine quality and theotheris not. I use a hock and it is about the same as the older blade.Darryl,Ithought you were using the Hand Mill? Is that still the case? Adam----- Original Message -----From: Hayashida Darryl Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 8:27 AMSubject: RE: Old Plane Blades to be my roughing plane requiring sharpening about twice whenroughingouta rod. >> I had a Stanley 9 1/2 for roughing, and Record 9 1/2 and an LN 212scraper willusethe Union for roughing from now on. It is bigger and heavier, but notbyaheck of a lot, and the rear handle makes it easier to control. I finditeasier to feel if the plane is flat to the forms, and it can be set totakeoff a lot in one pass. It can also be easily set to take off a fairlyfineshaving also. Along with the superior blade, I'm using this as myroughingplane from now on.Darryl from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Thu Jun 21 08:43:07 2001 f5LDh6Z18875 Subject: heat setting URAC This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, I'm looking for a little advice...I am gluing up a rod blank using URAC =