play that game and it keeps them out of hot water but the effect is thesame... people will know where to find a product. Actually, that salestechnique is a far more effective selling technique. But it is veryeffective and deceptive in that two people are coluding to sell listmembersa product. As it is viewed by others as a non-biased recommendation to useanother's services or purchase of goods. I will admit that in the past I've posted a couple of messages that were toocommercialized for the spirit of the list... and Mike B. has made me veryaware of my errors. Those past posts, I did not respond to the critism as Ifelt that it was deserving. However, I thought my previous post was wellwithin thebounds of the rules. I thought that I was providing a useful and convenient service to members onthe list that did not receive a postcard from Bob. I've made it available paywith a credit card and they can communicate with me by email. This isespecially helpful for our friends in other countries. Bob does not have email nor is he on the web, he is not on the list nor doeshe accept credit cards. His marketing plan was to send out post cards tofriends of his so I did not feel I was stepping on his toes. He obviouslywants me to sell his books as he has sold me books at a dealers price. In fact, he told me he did not want to be accessible by email or the webuntil the book had been out for awhile as he expects the book to be verycontroversial and he wanted to avoid the heat. He expects there to be livelydiscussion on his theories and research... Harry, why begrudge someone who loves cane rods and is able to provideproducts/services to rodmakers as a business. You would prefer listers tosend money to Amazon or a dealer that doesn't know what a bamboo fly rodis?That position is like saying that rod makers should not charge money formaking cane rods... they should only give them away to their family andfriends. I could earn 10 times more money going back to the business I wasin before discovering my love of bamboo fly rods. I don't know about you,but I much prefer to deal with people that share my passion of bamboo flyrods. Naive??? I seriously doubt that anyone on this list could be called naive...I think the listers here are among the most well informed on the subject andin business. Hey, Bob's book is getting good publicity already... you know what they sayin Hollywood, any publicity is good publicity... So... hopefully people will obtain books from any source they choose andthen real, meaningful discussion will begin on the art of rodmaking... Amen! Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: bob millward Darrell, I understand your points, and yes, I'd rather do business with you thanwithAmazon. In reality I purchase about a hundred and fifty books each year,mostof them from the little locally owned bookshop just three doors down frommychildhood home. If Bob's book was available there, that's where I'd buy it.Thank you for your explanation. If I was off the mark, then let me be quicktoapologize. You are completely correct that this particular post was not overtlycommercial. Perhaps I over-reacted by lumping this post in with others youhavemade in the past. That's unfair, and I'm sorry I didn't see the individualmessage for exactly what that one message was. But eleven other listmembershave written me with messages that basically say "Well said!" ApparentlyI'mnot the only one who saw it that way. One unfortunate tendency of humannatureis that we make judgements based on what we have seen in the past. Iwelcomeanyone who wants to judge the spirit of what I post here as one of the most,ifnot THE most prolific participant here. Only once have I ever beenreprimanded At the same time, you persistently promote your business on this list,whichis antithetical to the point and purpose of our activities here. At leastthreeposts to the list had mentioned Bob's name and address. One included hisphonenumber. Anyone who wanted the book could have managed to track Bobdown.Myperception of your post, possibly incorrect, was that you wanted to sell tofolks who would otherwise have purchased the book directly from Bob. As asometime semi-pro hack writer I know how hard it is to make a dime sellingone'swritings. Since Bob's the author, I'd rather buy straight from him so thathecan reap all the rewards. Again, I'll quote the list guidelines... Remember to keep commercial activities as private as possible. Most, ifnot all,business transactions are more appropriately handled through privateemail, orthrough a phone call. If you have any question about the appropriatenessof a post list maintainer(michael@wugate.wustl.edu) for clarification. Posting of Advertisements, Commercial Offers, Marketing Messages, orConsumer Interest Surveys does not fit within the bounds of thisdiscussion forum,and is not permitted on the list. This listserver is not intended to be aSales/Marketing mechanism for commercial organizations. (emphasis added is mine, and sorry for the html -- Aw heck, it's all mine.Iauthored the guidelines about 3 1/2 years ago. I know them like the back ofmyhand) The auto reply feature of this list defaults to sending only to theoriginator of the message. Adding the list to our comments requires us tochoose to do so. My opinion doesn't count for any more than anyone else's,butyou might have handled this situation much more readily through replyingdirectly to the person who sent the note. The grapevine is an effectivemeansof communication. Word will get around that you have copies of this bookforsale, and I truly hope you sell every one you can get your hands on.But this list is not the place to promote your sales. Neither you nor Iwould ever consider announcing to the list that we have an item on eBay.When Iread the original post, that's what it sounded like to me. In no way do I begrudge your making a living off bamboo. I make mylivingdoing something I love, and consider it a great blessing. I, too, couldmakemuch more money doing something else. But money is not the only value weuse toprice our activities. I sell a few rods each year, mostly so that I cancontinue to do something I love as a hobby. Heck, I could make a decentlivingif I wanted to assemble graphite rods. Your analogy suggesting that Iimplythat rodmakers should give their rods away is just plain asinine. Darrell, your experience with rods both old and new is a valuable assettothis list. I appreciate your willingness to share that experience. And Ihaveno doubt that your business is an asset to the bamboo community as well. Isimply do not think that it's right for you to use this list as a tool togenerate sales. A private email would have done that just as effectively. Good night,Harry from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jun 11 09:05:16 2001 f5BE5FZ21295 HAA22525 HAA04202 (5.5.2650.21) "'petermckean@netspace.net.au'" Subject: RE: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up It's all good, just some are MUCH better than others. Vive la differance! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:38 AM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up But, Dave, quite seriously - if, supposing, you had to have a female personcome around to read the water meter, or something, this is probably thesortof, kind of, female person that you would be most likely to select. Right? I mean, a straight saw cut is certainly a straight saw cut, and no disputingthat; but you must admit that there are certain arrangements of thegeneticcoding material which produce individual biological entities which have aninherently higher probability of successfully reproducing themselves. And this is such an entity. In spades! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:55 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up since I hit 71 yrs. old I get a bigger kick out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up Mmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboorodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadratebamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 11 11:02:10 2001 f5BG29Z25899 f5BG5up23707 Subject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up --------------14DAD5AFE544E0E91B1B1F08 Amen.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Dave Norling wrote: since I hit 71 yrs. old I get a bigger kick out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up Mmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboorodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadratebamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------14DAD5AFE544E0E91B1B1F08 Amen. Dave Norling wrote: out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message----- From: paul.blakley <paul.blakley@ntlworld.com> Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked upMmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com,the online magazine for bamboo rodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com,your source for hex and quadrate bamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867- 0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com --------------14DAD5AFE544E0E91B1B1F08-- from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 11 11:03:32 2001 f5BG3WZ26081 f5BG7Jp23876 Subject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up WOW!!!!!!!Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Peter McKean wrote: But, Dave, quite seriously - if, supposing, you had to have a female personcome around to read the water meter, or something, this is probably thesortof, kind of, female person that you would be most likely to select. Right? I mean, a straight saw cut is certainly a straight saw cut, and no disputingthat; but you must admit that there are certain arrangements of thegeneticcoding material which produce individual biological entities which have aninherently higher probability of successfully reproducing themselves. And this is such an entity. In spades! Peter----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Norling" Cc: Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:55 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up since I hit 71 yrs. old I get a bigger kick out of sawing a board straightwith a hand saw.Dave-----Original Message-----From: paul.blakley Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:04 PMSubject: Re: Saw this today on Clark's site and I cracked up Mmmmmmmmmmmmm she's a babe ............. Bob Maulucci wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1153031159 Bob Maulucci==================================================http://www.powerfibers.com, the online magazine for bamboorodmakinghttp://www.downandacross.com, your source for hex and quadratebamboorods, silk lines and leaders, sherline lathes, mills, and accessories,and more218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularbmaulucci@adelphia.netbob@downandacross.com from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Mon Jun 11 13:13:21 2001 f5BIDLZ00918 Subject: 10 commandments --part1_102.4661edb.28566427_boundary Number 11 Fish as long and often as possible. If you don't have the time ,make it. Jim --part1_102.4661edb.28566427_boundary Number 11 ,make it. Jim --part1_102.4661edb.28566427_boundary-- from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Mon Jun 11 13:24:48 2001 f5BIOlZ01435 Subject: GRAYLOCK [things to do] --part1_10e.10788a4.285666df_boundary Taylor, from what I have received from the list members, it seems as though there will be plenty of other women present. There is sightseeing and historical places, and plenty of shopping . All within an hours drive. Also golf coursescanoeing and some local beaches. Along with all of the above, there are supposed to be some good food establishments. Jim --part1_10e.10788a4.285666df_boundary Taylor, from what I have received from the list members, it seems as thoughthere will be plenty of other women present. There is sightseeing and historical places, and plenty of shopping . within an hours drive. Also golf coursescanoeing and some local beaches. Along with all of the above, there are supposed to be some good food establishments. Jim --part1_10e.10788a4.285666df_boundary-- from dryfly@erols.com Mon Jun 11 13:56:06 2001 f5BIu5Z03529 ([208.58.203.54] helo=erols.com) Subject: Making Reel Seat Butt Caps Can someone provide me off list the details necessary to making reelseat end caps from N/S tubing and sheet. I've read Bob Nunleys' articlein PowerFibers about turning the N/S tubing down, which I understand.The part I really need advice on is the specific tools and materials(and procedures) necessary for soldering the sheet to the tubing. Iwant to order tools and supplies but don't want to buy more than I havetoo. Chris Bogart references some suppliers on his web site and I couldask them but I figured I'd first make an inquiry on the list. ThanksBob from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jun 11 15:03:43 2001 f5BK3hZ07418 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense is meant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outright flimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see your MIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lure polishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) touted as Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of your buyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from homes-sold@home.com Mon Jun 11 15:43:41 2001 f5BKheZ18476 femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: 10 commandments This is a multi-part message in MIME format. #`12 Don't set the hook on Kayaks. #`12 Kayaks. from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jun 11 16:06:32 2001 f5BL6VZ24991 Subject: Re: The Ten Commandments of Fly Fishing 1. Fish with bamboo unless you can land at least three times as manyfish with another tool. TNT is illegal 2. Fish dries unless you can land at least five times as many fishwith nymphs. Agreed 3. Never wish that the hike back to the truck was shorter if thatentails wishing away precious steam mileage. 4. Fish in the rain or snow if it comes upon you, but never STARTfishing in the rain or snow. Weenie. 5. Learn to release your catch as safely as possible, but once ortwice a year go out with the explcit plan to take a few home and thensee if you can. Particularly if you've ever heard the expression "you spend 6 hours standingin a river and have nothing to show for it" 6. Never leave rising fish to find better rising fish. There is nosuch thing. Agreed 7. Never leave rising fish for any non-fishing reason. Obviously, you don't have any kids. 8. Fiddle with your tackle ast least as much as you actually fish. Fish five times as much as you fiddle with tackle 9. Take at least one day a season to make fishing better for usall. At least 10. Fish with good company or good fishers and thank God when youcan do both. Amen Paul from vfish@vFish.net Mon Jun 11 16:33:41 2001 f5BLXfZ02880 Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:33:33 -0500 Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Ouch... I like Harry and I respect and value his opinion. He's a good man. I saidnothing in my post otherwise... I was surprised by his post, but I will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder them andlove them. A guy just emailed me and wants to reordered 4 dozen! Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address and I'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and post yourreview on the list. Good or bad. It's simply unfair to judge a productwithout having tried it. You wouldn't believe the rave reviews people givethem. If after trying one out, you feel it's a waste of money, by all meansreport that to the list. Then I could not question your integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of that book...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... since Ibecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book. Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a starting pricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I've soldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes an itemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the way thecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywords forauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and I willsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid if Ifeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got a singlenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an item andretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give a satisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returns ofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so it wasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returned itemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure every customerissatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded, negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But I findwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the delete key.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, since Istrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow off steam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to me andofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderful case cautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and it isperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do it everyday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'll chalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for a motorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget) thatthreatened to come down with his gang and kill me because I wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening over thephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because he knewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, I addressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you... Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is coming from... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my post wasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record. Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email me offlist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, but Ido the best I can. Please don't act childishly, it's a real turn off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense ismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of yourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Jun 11 16:46:39 2001 f5BLkcZ06417 Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:46:34 +0100 Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Come on chaps it's time to drop all of this,live and forget......Paul Darrell Lee wrote: Ouch... I like Harry and I respect and value his opinion. He's a good man. I saidnothing in my post otherwise... I was surprised by his post, but I will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder them andlove them. A guy just emailed me and wants to reordered 4 dozen! Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address and I'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and postyourreview on the list. Good or bad. It's simply unfair to judge a productwithout having tried it. You wouldn't believe the rave reviews people givethem. If after trying one out, you feel it's a waste of money, by all meansreport that to the list. Then I could not question your integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of that book...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... since Ibecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book. Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a starting pricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I've soldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes an itemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the way thecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywords forauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and I willsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid if Ifeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got a singlenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an item andretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give a satisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returns ofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so it wasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returned itemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure everycustomer issatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded, negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But I findwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the delete key.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, since Istrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow offsteam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to me andofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderful case cautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and it isperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do it everyday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'll chalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for a motorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget)thatthreatened to come down with his gang and kill me because I wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening over thephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because heknewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, I addressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you... Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is coming from... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my postwasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record. Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email me offlist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, but Ido the best I can. Please don't act childishly, it's a real turn off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offenseismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most ofyourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jun 11 16:57:31 2001 f5BLvUZ09432 (63.228.45.223) "rodmakers" Subject: Re: The Ten Commandments of Fly Fishing Henry David Thoureau said"Some people fish all their lives without realizing it's not fish they areafter"Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The Ten Commandments of Fly Fishing 1. Fish with bamboo unless you can land at least three times as manyfish with another tool. TNT is illegal 2. Fish dries unless you can land at least five times as many fishwith nymphs. Agreed 3. Never wish that the hike back to the truck was shorter if thatentails wishing away precious steam mileage. 4. Fish in the rain or snow if it comes upon you, but never STARTfishing in the rain or snow. Weenie. 5. Learn to release your catch as safely as possible, but once ortwice a year go out with the explcit plan to take a few home and thensee if you can. Particularly if you've ever heard the expression "you spend 6 hoursstandingin a river and have nothing to show for it" 6. Never leave rising fish to find better rising fish. There is nosuch thing. Agreed 7. Never leave rising fish for any non-fishing reason. Obviously, you don't have any kids. 8. Fiddle with your tackle ast least as much as you actually fish. Fish five times as much as you fiddle with tackle 9. Take at least one day a season to make fishing better for usall. At least 10. Fish with good company or good fishers and thank God when youcan do both. Amen Paul from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Mon Jun 11 17:14:49 2001 f5BMEmZ14065 Subject: "Wrath of the net" --part1_113.2a6ba0.28569cd0_boundary Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think I am an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some may say otherwise.Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up. To put it mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin someone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do have a delete key that works well. Thank you,Jim --part1_113.2a6ba0.28569cd0_boundary Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think Iam an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some may say otherwise.Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builderand like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up. To putit mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruinsomeone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I dohave a delete key that works well. Thank you,Jim --part1_113.2a6ba0.28569cd0_boundary-- from jmpio@nhbm.com Mon Jun 11 17:16:08 2001 f5BMG7Z14505 Subject: RE: "Wrath of the net" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Well said. -----Original Message----- Subject: "Wrath of the net" Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think Iam an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some may say otherwise. Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up. To putit mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin someone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do have a delete key that works well. Thank you, Jim Well said. -----Original Message-----From: GRNMTRODS@aol.com 4:15 "Wrath of the net"Hello, I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old and think I am an adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or atleast I thought I did. Some may say otherwise. Everyday, on thiscomputer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to anyonethat has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about the subject. It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled up.To put it mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of youare doing. We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in thegoal of rod building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin someone's reputation or who put the wrong item on the net.Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do havea delete key that works well. Thank you, Jim from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Mon Jun 11 19:50:21 2001 f5C0oKZ16662 Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:50:05 -0700 Subject: Re: 10 commandments This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 12a. Always set the hook on Jet Skis! Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:48 PMSubject: 10 commandments #`12 Don't set the hook on Kayaks. 12a. Always set the hook on Jet =Skis! ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 =1:48 PMSubject: 10commandments #`12 Kayaks. from Canerods@aol.com Mon Jun 11 20:14:05 2001 f5C1E4Z21699 Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods --part1_a5.16f15396.2856c6b4_boundary In a message dated 6/11/01 2:34:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,vfish@vFish.net writes: I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... Reed, Darrell might be soaking these things in snake oil - but you know what? They work. Don Burns --part1_a5.16f15396.2856c6b4_boundary In a message dated6/11/01 2:34:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vfish@vFish.net writes: I'll bet severallisters have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... Reed, Darrell might be soaking these things in snake oil - but you know what?They work. Don Burns --part1_a5.16f15396.2856c6b4_boundary-- from rkrees@mcn.net Mon Jun 11 21:05:31 2001 f5C25UZ02403 Subject: sulfnbk.exe About a week ago someone posted instructions for a fix if you were coughtbythis hoax. Could that person please forward them to me for a friend.Thanks Ron from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jun 11 21:08:21 2001 f5C28LZ03146 (63.228.45.181) Subject: Re: "Wrath of the net" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I agree-----Original Message-----From: jmpio@nhbm.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:21 PMSubject: RE: "Wrath of the net" Well said.-----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: "Wrath of the net" I might as will start out with the fact that I am 57 years old = I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I thought I did. Some = Everyday, on this computer, I read a lot of nonsense. I am a rod = like to talk to anyone that has anything to say that is fairly = It seems as though some of you folks are getting a little riled = mildley, I've been pissed before , but on a public forum ,I = getting into somebody's face with the wrath some of you are = We are supposed to be mature folks, all interested in the goal = building. We should all start breathing, and go fishing and try = to one another. Not talking about civil suits and trying to ruin = Now that I've said my piece, Lets see who is going to jump on me = I agree -----Original = jmpio@nhbm.com =GRNMTRODS@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, June 11, 2001 5:21 PMSubject: RE:"Wrath = net"Well said. -----Original Message-----From: GRNMTRODS@aol.com "Wrath of the net"Hello, I might as = adult...... I grew up with great ethics. Or at least I = did. Some may say otherwise. Everyday, on this computer, = a lot of nonsense. I am a rod builder and like to talk to = that has anything to say that is fairly intelligent about = subject. It seems as though some of you folks are = little riled up. To put it mildley, I've been pissed before = a public forum ,I wouldn't be getting into somebody's face = wrath some of you are doing. We are supposed to be = all interested in the goal of rod building. We should all = breathing, and go fishing and try to be civil to one = who put the wrong item on the net. Now that I've said my = Lets see who is going to jump on me . I do have a delete key = from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jun 11 21:46:01 2001 f5C2k0Z10550 Subject: Re: "Wrath of the net" rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu --part1_120.2b6c37.2856dc5b_boundary OK guys don't you all think this is getting a little out of hand. Now most of us on this list I think are adults in one form or another, "RIGHT". So why don't we all back off and just forget about this whole thing? I for one did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the list and I do not think it should be going as far as it is. Most of you are familiar with me out there and know where I am usually coming from. Some times WEALL say things that may or may not be appropriate for the list and we usually get called out for it. No offense to Harry because I have the utmost respect for him as I do 99.99% of all of you but I agree that he should have addressed DL OFF LIST and that he made a faux pas here. Harry if this makes you mad atme I mean NO FOUL so let's everyone just DROP IT and get back to rods andSTUFF. Come on boys put something up here that will be of value to us all. caught about 35 trout, nothing larger than 16 "s and lost or missed as many. Water looked like coca cola but the fish were still taking dries off the top. I actually think this fact made the fish easier to catch as I caught or raised almost every riser I could cast to. This is not a fish story either. OK that is it and I put in the usual disclaimer. If this POed anyone in any way tell me off list and leave the crap for fertilizer. BRET --part1_120.2b6c37.2856dc5b_boundary OK guys don't you all think this is getting a little out of hand. of us on this list I think are adults in one form or another, "RIGHT". did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the listand I familiar with me out there and know where I am usually coming from. say things that may or may not be appropriate for the list and weusually get respect for him as I do 99.99% of all of you but I agree that he should haveaddressed DL you mad at me I mean NO FOUL so let's everyone just DROP IT and get back to rods andSTUFF. all. hear about the Muskegon last weekend I caught about 35 trout, nothing larger than 16 "s and lost or missed as Water looked like coca cola but the fish were still taking dries off thetop. caught or either. BRET --part1_120.2b6c37.2856dc5b_boundary-- from iank@ts.co.nz Mon Jun 11 22:20:42 2001 f5C3KeZ16833 Subject: Re: was "Wrath of the net" now " an opportunity" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Guys and Girls At the risk of incurring the wrath of some , but also looking to =change the subject , you might like to look at the following site for =some great information on New Zealand fishing. It might just inspire =those of you who are contemplating coming to the Gathering down here =next year. ( March 9th and 10th to be exact) I should also add that I have only meet Tony once and have absolutely =no commercial interest. The site is www.tonyentwistlesflyfishing.co.nz Iank Guys and Girls At the risk of incurring the wrath = but also looking to change the subject , you might like to look at the = following site for some great information on New Zealand fishing. It = just inspire those of you who are contemplating coming to the = here next year. ( March 9th and 10th to be exact) example of how to do a web site. I should also add that I have only = and have absolutely no commercial interest. The site is www.tonyentwistlesflyf=ishing.co.nz Iank from richjez@enteract.com Mon Jun 11 23:57:55 2001 f5C4vsZ05540 Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods --=====================_17772993==_.ALT Since I am quoted early in this email, I feel I am entitled to and a need to respond. First: here we go again. Someone expresses an opinion and someone elsegets defensive and the hostility begins. We have lost some very valuable list members in the past due to this behavior, including Reed. It hasn't been very long since the last list members left due to hostilities. Unfortunately, this time that second someone has a commercial interest. That does make a difference. Second: Reed has made numerous original contributions to the list, he was the one who reintroduced us to silk likes. In fact you have his contribution on your web site http://vfish.net/silkrecon2.htm. Talking about libel and using that persons's information seems like the pot calling the kettle black. Sorry, plagiarism and libel are different things legally. (You did get Reeds' written permission to post his article didn't you?) Reed also had enlightened us to the "benefits" of long rods. Both of these are ways if thinking that are outside of conventional thought on these subjects. When the threat of attorneys enters a conversation, all creativity stops. That is too bad. One of the best things of this list is the creativity that is freely offered. Darryl, lighten up. Harry was right explaining the list guidelines with his post: commercialism for personal gain is not allowed. You have been over that line many times. Having been is sales before, I realizes that having something to offer can and will make one aggressive in getting out the information. You were right when you said you could have said the book could have been gotten from Bob Millward or you. If that would have been included in your post, that would have diminished some perception of the personal gain motive of your post. You do have something different to offer that Bob doesn't, as you pointed out. You offer credit cared and your price is in US dollars so no conversion is needed. Ordering form Bob had its advantages too. The author gains directly from his efforts. I realize how having something to offer can make one aggressive but Darryl, try to relax and listen what others have to say without responding defensively. I think that respect is the key word here. If we respond with respect to the others position, the list will become what most of us want it to be: Informative and peaceful. Soapbox off. So who will go fishing with a poor caster, me, at Grayling? Rich Jezioro At 04:33 PM 6/11/01, Darrell Lee wrote:Ouch... I like Harry and I respect and value his opinion. He's a good man. I saidnothing in my post otherwise... I was surprised by his post, but I will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder them andlove them. A guy just emailed me and wants to reordered 4 dozen! Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address and I'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and post yourreview on the list. Good or bad. It's simply unfair to judge a productwithout having tried it. You wouldn't believe the rave reviews people givethem. If after trying one out, you feel it's a waste of money, by all meansreport that to the list. Then I could not question your integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tell Reedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of that book...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... since Ibecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book. Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a starting pricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I've soldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes an itemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the way thecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywords forauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and I willsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid if Ifeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got a singlenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an item andretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give a satisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returns ofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so it wasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returned itemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure every customerissatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded, negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But I findwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the delete key.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, since Istrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow off steam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to me andofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderful case cautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and it isperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do it everyday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'll chalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for a motorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget) thatthreatened to come down with his gang and kill me because I wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening over thephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because he knewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, I addressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you... Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is coming from... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my post wasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record. Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email me offlist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, but Ido the best I can. Please don't act childishly, it's a real turn off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell,In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense ismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge of outrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE Heddon Lurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age) toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused.At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of yourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):> --=====================_17772993==_.ALT Since I am quoted early in this email, I feel I am entitled to and a needto respond. First: here we go again. Someone expresses an opinion and someone elsegets defensive and the hostility begins. We have lost some very valuablelist members in the past due to this behavior, including Reed. It hasn'tbeen very long since the last list members left due to hostilities.Unfortunately, this time that second someone has a commercial interest.That does make a difference. Second: Reed has made numerous original contributions to the list, he wasthe one who reintroduced us to silk likes. In fact you have hiscontribution on your web sitehttp://vfish.=net/silkrecon2.htm.Talking about libel and using that persons's information seems like thepot calling the kettle black. Sorry, plagiarism and libel are differentthings legally. (You did get Reeds' written permission to post hisarticle didn't you?) Reed also had enlightened us to the"benefits" of long rods. Both of these are ways if thinking that are outside of conventionalthought on these subjects. When the threat of attorneys enters aconversation, all creativity stops. That is too bad. One of the bestthings of this list is the creativity that is freely offered. Darryl, lighten up. Harry was right explaining the list guidelines withhis post: commercialism for personal gain is not allowed. You have beenover that line many times. Having been is sales before, I realizes thathaving something to offer can and will make one aggressive in getting outthe information. You were right when you said you could have said the book could have beengotten from Bob Millward or you. If that would have been included in yourpost, that would have diminished some perception of the personal gainmotive of your post. You do have something different to offer that Bob doesn't, as you pointedout. You offer credit cared and your price is in US dollars so noconversion is needed. Ordering form Bob had its advantages too. Theauthor gains directly from his efforts. I realize how having something to offer can make one aggressive butDarryl, try to relax and listen what others have to say withoutresponding defensively. I think that respect is the key word here. If werespond with respect to the others position, the list will become whatmost of us want it to be: Informative and peaceful. Soapbox off. So who will go fishing with a poor caster, me, atGrayling? Rich Jezioro At 04:33 PM 6/11/01, Darrell Lee wrote:Ouch... I said will notbe childish about it. It's okay to have a difference of opinion without getting personal. If I were YOU, I wouldn't be making personal attacks... Those miracle polishing cloths are fantastic! Many people reorder themand Youshouldn't knock it 'til you've tried it... Send me your address andI'llsend you one free with the agreement that you will try one out and postyour product people give all means integrity... I'll bet several listers have tried these cloths... you guy tellReedwhether they work or are snake oil... As far as that book, I paid $68 or more for my first copy of thatbook...ask Irish George, he remembers, he was the next highest bid... sinceIbecame a book dealer, I now sell it because it is a great reference book.Isell 250+ books per month and ALL of the auctions have a startingpricebelow the suggested retail price. An auction, is an auction... I'vesoldthat book for as low as $10 and I've sold it for more... Sometimes anitemhas sold below my actual cost... But it's an auction and that's the waythecookie crumbles. As for the titles of my auctions... Titles are keywordsforauctions and help interested parties find an item. Sometimes I end auctions early when an item is bid too high and Iwillsometimes sell items to the high bidder for less than the winning bid ifIfeel it is appropriate. Out of nearly 800 ebay transactions I have 532+ feedbacks... I got asinglenegative feedback from a deadbeat bidder that didn't pay for an itemandretaliated for his negative feedback that I gave him. I give asatisfactionguarantee on 99% of the items I sell and I've had maybe 4-5 returnsofwhich, only one item was an item that I missed a defect in the rod so itwasreturned and the reason was justified by the bidder. But all returneditemsare cheerfully accepted as I work very hard on making sure every customerissatisfied. Your post is libelous and without merit. If I was a small minded,negativelyinclined person, I'd have an attorney write you a stern letter... But Ifindwhen something is posted that I disagree with, I simply hit the deletekey.You should seriously consider the same. I am really too busyy to respond to these personal attacks... But, sinceIstrongly disagree, I am compelled to respond. If you want to blow offsteam,be an adult and call me at 323.465.4551 and I'm happy to discuss yourissuesrather than post these unfounded libelous attacks... I would recommend you send future posts such as your first one to meandofflist because it really is libelous and you would create a wonderfulcase morecautious. You can call me names over the phone all you want and itisperfectly legal to do so... No witnesses, no libel. unless you do iteveryday at 2 a.m. but then that's a criminal matter not civil matter. I'llchalkyour 1st post up as uninformed. In another life 25 years ago when I was a service manager for amotorcycleshop, I had a member of a motorcycle gang (Crips or Bloods... I forget)that wouldn't havehis motorcycle fixed under warranty... he was pretty threatening overthephone, but face to face he was milk toast... he backed down because heknewI was right... I'm right here and I'm not backing down... Reed, if you notice, Iaddressedyour opinions with facts and I make no personal attacks against you...Isimply don't understand where all this anger of yours is comingfrom... Relax, like is too short... Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Harry did not make a personal attack, he did point out that my postwasmisleading and in reviewing it, I agree and have corrected the record.Ifthere are others that want to chime it, please get over it... email meofflist if you have a problem with me or call me, I may not be perfect, butI off tohundreds of people on the list. -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Reed Curry Subject: Re: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods Darrell, defenseof Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. No offense ismeant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge ofoutrightflimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. We see yourMIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE HeddonLurepolishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age)toutedas Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused. worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most of yourbuyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" toall.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; / bsp; --=====================_17772993==_.ALT-- from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Tue Jun 12 00:21:20 2001 f5C5LJZ07515 Subject: H-I Ferrule I'm refinishing an old H-I for a friend. The male ferrule on the midsection was severely cracked & I'll need to replace it. I removed the maletonight and need some advice before I go any further. First of all, the ferrules are pinned on one side only. I managed to wigglethe cracked male ferrule to get it to pop up enough to grip it with pliers& pull it out. Is there a trick to getting these pins out without cuttingthe ferrule or damaging the bamboo? The ferrule looks like nickle plated brass. The male is 1-9/16 long, with a"shoulder" that starts at 1-1/16. The station for the male is just barelyunder 16/64 max at the base. The area covered by the shoulder isn't sanded- it measures .268. I haven't taken the female off to measure it yet (seequestion on removing the pins), but I assume it's one of the old step- downferrules where the male is 2/64 smaller than the female. What's the best replacement ferrule for something like this? Are there anysources for old ferrules like this? Maybe ones that have been salvaged offof old rods? Or should I simply put new nickle-silver ferrules on it? I'mnot worried about restoring it to original specs - the goal is simply tomake the rod useful again. The ferrules on the tip sections are in goodshape and fit well, so if I could find a close replacement for the mid-buttI could save my buddy some money. Otherwise, I'll need to replace all ofthe ferrules - a bit pricey for a rod like this. But it was his Dad's rod &he'd really like to fish it again. Any advice would be much appreciated. BTW, the rod is an 8 footer with "Mountaineer" written above the grip. Just section, the diameter varied by as much as .010! Really makes youappreciate the workmanship on custom rods, even the ones made by anamatuerrookie like me! Tom from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 12 04:58:54 2001 f5C9wsZ10066 sender ) Subject: Re: H-I Ferrule The main reason rod like HI and Montague are regarded with such distain isthequality of the ferrules. By replacing these orig. plated ferrules with a setof new NS step down ferrules you increase the rods quality 10 fold.To remove ferrules that are pinned on 1 side simply drive the pin into thebamboo far enough to allow the ferrule to be removed. If this cannot be donebecause the pin is hitting the other side of the ferrule simply drill the pinto a depth that will allow the ferrule to be removed. Marty Tom Bowden wrote: I'm refinishing an old H-I for a friend. The male ferrule on the midsection was severely cracked & I'll need to replace it. I removed the maletonight and need some advice before I go any further. First of all, the ferrules are pinned on one side only. I managed to wigglethe cracked male ferrule to get it to pop up enough to grip it with pliers& pull it out. Is there a trick to getting these pins out without cuttingthe ferrule or damaging the bamboo? The ferrule looks like nickle plated brass. The male is 1-9/16 long, with a"shoulder" that starts at 1-1/16. The station for the male is just barelyunder 16/64 max at the base. The area covered by the shoulder isn'tsanded- it measures .268. I haven't taken the female off to measure it yet (seequestion on removing the pins), but I assume it's one of the old step- downferrules where the male is 2/64 smaller than the female. What's the best replacement ferrule for something like this? Are there anysources for old ferrules like this? Maybe ones that have been salvaged offof old rods? Or should I simply put new nickle-silver ferrules on it? I'mnot worried about restoring it to original specs - the goal is simply tomake the rod useful again. The ferrules on the tip sections are in goodshape and fit well, so if I could find a close replacement for the mid-buttI could save my buddy some money. Otherwise, I'll need to replace all ofthe ferrules - a bit pricey for a rod like this. But it was his Dad's rod &he'd really like to fish it again. Any advice would be much appreciated. BTW, the rod is an 8 footer with "Mountaineer" written above the grip. Just section, the diameter varied by as much as .010! Really makes youappreciate the workmanship on custom rods, even the ones made by anamatuerrookie like me! Tom from briansr@point-net.com Tue Jun 12 07:30:31 2001 f5CCUUZ11340 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:33:44 -0400 , Subject: Re: "Wrath of the net" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. You're right and "the Battle of the Bilge" should be declared over !! Sent: June 11, 2001 10:45 PMSubject: Re: "Wrath of the net" OK guys don't you all think this is getting a little out of hand. Now = of us on this list I think are adults in one form or another, "RIGHT". = why don't we all back off and just forget about this whole thing? I = did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the = do not think it should be going as far as it is. Most of you are = with me out there and know where I am usually coming from. Some times = say things that may or may not be appropriate for the list and we = called out for it. No offense to Harry because I have the utmost = him as I do 99.99% of all of you but I agree that he should have = OFF LIST and that he made a faux pas here. Harry if this makes you = I mean NO FOUL so let's everyone just DROP IT and get back to rods and = caught about 35 trout, nothing larger than 16 "s and lost or missed as = Water looked like coca cola but the fish were still taking dries off = I actually think this fact made the fish easier to catch as I caught = raised almost every riser I could cast to. This is not a fish story = OK that is it and I put in the usual disclaimer. If this POed = Bret You're right and "the Battle of the Bilge" should be = over !! ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: June 11, 2001 10:45 =PMSubject: Re: "Wrath of the =net"OK guys= did not really see anything wrong with what Darrell Lee put on the = are familiar with me out there and know where I am usually coming = because I have the utmost respect for him as I do 99.99% of all of = I agree that he should have addressed DL OFF LIST and that he made = wants = about the Muskegon last weekend I caught about 35 trout, nothing = this fact made the fish easier to catch as I caught or raised = from stuart.rod@gmx.de Tue Jun 12 08:08:26 2001 f5CD8PZ12299 Subject: Re: Bob Milward's Book Hi everybody.........is anybody still reading this thread?...... What exactly is Bob's book about? I seem to have missed out on something,hasanybody read it and can you give me an idea about it's content. Thanks Stuart John Bokstrom schrieb: Copies of Bob's book can be purchased directly from Bob at:Bob Milward,1851 Rufus Drive,North Vancouver, B.C. V7J 3L8Price is $33.50 U.S. or $50 Can., includes S&H. Send money order orcheque.FYI - The Canadian dollar hovers around 65 US cents.No financial interest. from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Jun 12 08:19:12 2001 f5CDJBZ13123 hme0.telusplanet.net Subject: Polishing Cloths Guys, All this stuff about polishing cloths had me look @ my Gesswein ToolCatalogue. They list several types of cloths that might/should/maybe/whoknows work for polishing cane and rod fittings.1] This one is produced by 3M and the hype says" this amazing cloth has oiland water absorbing fibers that lift and trap liquids, grease and dirtparticles. The specially knitted design does a better job of cleaningsurfaces than conventional wipes." They come is a number of colors @ $ 5.50ea. 2] And on page 57 we have a selection of polishing cloths a] a Green and While Polishing Cloth - whose hype says " This white sideremoves fine scratches with microcrystalline grit. The green side producesa bight shine and leaves a protective anti-tarnish finish". they sell @ $3.90 eab] Luster Cloth whose hype says " Cleaner than a rouge cloth. Luster clotha soft felt-like material with special additive that remove tarnish anddirt. Plus it actually polishes."c] Astic-Birille Cloth whose hype says " A quick rub with this treatedpolishing cloth will instantly give a brilliant, long- lasting luster to allmetals without scratching." $ 4.48 ea.d] Gesswein rouge Cloth whose hype says " A double polishing cloth forremoval of tarnish and for final polishing." $ 2.17 ea.e] Cape Cod Anti-tarnishing Polishing Cloths whose hype says " With easyrubbing, these moist cotton cloths remove dirt and tarnish from sterlingsilver, gold, brass, bronze, copper, pewter, aluminum and stainlesssteel.... Also protects against tarnish, water stains, and corrosionleaving an invisible coating of Anti-Tarnish protector." for $ 4.45 ea. And from a earlier thread, on the facing page we have Felt Sticks in bothhard and soft for $ .56 ea. And there are a selection of files that may be suitable for ferrule fitting+ craving tools for those that really want to engrave metal parts and onand on. This is great catalogue from a jewelry supply house whose web site iswww.gesswein.com Sure makes great bedside reading. regards, Don from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 08:55:10 2001 f5CDt9Z14607 2001 06:55:08 PDT Subject: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, what kind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jun 12 09:34:08 2001 f5CEY7Z15773 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 07:33:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Jerry,The few times I have used winding checks I have glued them. I seemto remember than I slid the check nearly to its place, and used a tinydab of epoxy on the end of a toothpick. But most of the time I simplydon't use a check... Thanks for changing the subject.Harry Jerry Madigan wrote: Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, what kind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 09:56:39 2001 f5CEucZ16540 2001 07:56:37 PDT Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Jerry, traditionally you do not glue on a windingcheck but, rather, butt the winding check against thecork and use the thread wrap in front of the windingcheck to secure it. This is the traditional way butI'm sure, not the only way. Bill Walters --- Jerry Madigan wrote:Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, whatkind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from Mackelvane@aol.com Tue Jun 12 09:57:48 2001 f5CEvlZ16706 Jun 2001 10:57:35 -0400 Subject: Southwest Colorado Hello all, In a couple of weeks I'll be traveling to the Durango area to visit a friend. If Isay the right things and show up with the right flowers, she might let mespend a morning or two on the local waters. I'll make every effort to workthe San Juan, but I'd appreciate any advice on other streams in the area.Thanks in advance for any help. -Jeremy from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jun 12 10:01:50 2001 f5CF1nZ17135 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: An end to the Brouhaha, I hope My previous message, six simple lines, seems to have been miscontrued. Let's re-examine what I said. In defense of Harry, you ARE a huckster, pure and simple. "huck" -- to bargain. Hardly something one can take offense at, and I indicated that it was not meant as offensive. No offense is meant by that... you are balancing perpetually on the edge ofoutright flimflamery but you haven't stepped over the line, yet. Here I rise to Darrell's defense by stating that he is not guilty of outright deception. If this is incorrect please let him know. We see your MIRACLE Bamboo Rod Polishing cloth (also sold as a MIRACLE HeddonLure polishing cloth), and a compendium (Catalogs from the Golden Age)touted as Payne and Leonard catalogs, and some of us are less than amused. Its a matter of individual taste; this type of advertizing doesn't appeal to all audiences. At its worst, that is only snakeoil salesmanship and, since most ofyour buyers seem happy, it remains to say "caveat emptor" to all. Here I am not saying that the goods tendered are snakeoil, rather the sales approach is similar to the selling of snakeoil. Note that I also indicate that most of Darrell's customers are happy. Again, if this is incorrect please so note. My apologies to all list members who may have been disturbed by what became an unseemly row. I hope that this will be the end of the matter. BTW, if Darrell had an item for sale that caught my fancy, I would not hesitate to purchase from him.-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from rextutor@about.com Tue Jun 12 10:10:41 2001 f5CFAeZ17600 (NPlex 5.1.050) Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. One gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel let her bid $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. I bought a book from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it from them. He promised thread for the inconvenience but conveniently forgot the thread. He thinks because a live author signs it , the lawyer to me as I relaying facts I have observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have apologized for breaking the rules and let it drop. The ethical result speaks for itself. Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jun 12 10:16:39 2001 f5CFGdZ17938 ([208.58.202.64] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks I agree unless they don't fit tight enough. In that case I either gluewith a little epoxy or better yet, build up the area where the windingcheck will go with silk thread and then use a little bit of epoxy, itshouldn't take too much epoxy. One area of concern though is when usinga round check and dipping, its possible if you don't have a good sealbetween the check and the cork, that the varnish will seep up into thehollows created between the round check and the flats of the rod and beabsorbed into the cork. Great case for using a tight fitting hex check. Bob Bill Walters wrote: Jerry, traditionally you do not glue on a windingcheck but, rather, butt the winding check against thecork and use the thread wrap in front of the windingcheck to secure it. This is the traditional way butI'm sure, not the only way. Bill Walters --- Jerry Madigan wrote:Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, whatkind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -only $35a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from ddeloach@pcisys.net Tue Jun 12 11:49:32 2001 f5CGnVZ21881 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: ethics This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell a few months back. =It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--a couple of leaders, =burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding thread. When I ask him =about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff got put in =my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy throwing in some =freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again without hesitation. Don DeLoach with = I couldn't disagree more. I ordered = Darrell a few months back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies = couple of leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding = I ask him about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff = in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy throwing in = freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again without = hesitation. DonDeLoach from ddeloach@pcisys.net Tue Jun 12 12:07:32 2001 f5CH7VZ22587 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net)Message-ID: Subject: Re: Southwest Colorado, fishing not rodmaking Hi Jeremy and Rodmakers,I live in Colorado Springs and am the sole distributer of fishinginformation for Colorado....just kidding, couldn't resist. Durango will bejust barely coming out of runoff by then, so you should have an excellentchance at some great fishing. For short cane rods and dry flies I like theupper Animas drainage. There are tons of creeks up there. Lime Creek andHermosa creek are my favs. Also try the East Fork of Hermosa Creek at thefoot of Durango-Purgatory Ski Area. Native cutthroats galore in a beautifultiny meadow stream! For river fishing the animas in town is nice as is thePiedra about an hour east of Durango. If you have time and don't mind thedrive to South Fork-Creede area the Upper Rio Grande is fabulous. AlsoI wanted to let everyone else know that if your coming to CO thissummer weekend and some weeknights after work so Ive got lots to share. And ifanyone is in the Pikes Peak area and wants to to go out to the Platte withme the beer will be on ice. Best,Don D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Southwest Colorado Hello all, In a couple of weeks I'll be traveling to the Durango area to visit afriend. If I say the right things and show up with the right flowers, shemight let me spend a morning or two on the local waters. I'll make everyeffort to work the San Juan, but I'd appreciate any advice on other streamsin the area. Thanks in advance for any help. -Jeremy from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 12:21:20 2001 f5CHLKZ23188 (63.225.233.56) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Hexagonal reel seats I have a conceptual problem that I'm sure someone on the list can help mewith. For those of you doing hexagonal reel seat spacers, what kind ofhardware to you use to secure the reel foot? I don't mean aluminum or NS,but what shape is the barrel or the lock rings. How does it secure? Isanyone trying to use hex shaped hardware with the spacer, or are you guysadapting the spacer to fit more traditional round hardware. While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use winding checks,preferring to wrap your thread up to or onto the cork. I have always likedthe hex shaped winding checks on some older rods. Anyone using those, andif so, where could one obtain some? Thanks, Jason SwanLogan, UT from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 12:24:01 2001 f5CHO0Z23418 (63.225.233.56) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: One more thing I couple of months ago, I lost the url for a new bamboo rod forum thatsomeone had started up. Anyone got that url? I haven't been back and Iwant to see how it has shaped up since the last time I was there. Jason SwanLogan, UT from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jun 12 12:26:18 2001 f5CHQGZ23684 Subject: Re: ethics This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Although I was going to stay out of this rathole I'll second Don's = Can we take this off list? Please Paul Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:50 PMSubject: ethics I couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell a few months =back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--a couple of =leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding thread. When I =ask him about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff =got put in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy =throwing in some freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again without hesitation. Don DeLoach Although I was going to stay out of = I'll second Don's sentiments. Can we take this off list? =Please Paul ----- Original Message ----- Don= Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 = PMSubject: ethics with = I couldn't disagree more. I ordered = Darrell a few months back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies = couple of leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding = When I ask him about it I was thinking he would say that someone elses = got put in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy = some freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again = hesitation. Don =DeLoach from dr.matro@airmail.net Tue Jun 12 12:50:36 2001 f5CHoZZ24604 ring.iadfw.net sender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Re: Southwest Colorado Jeremy Lime, Cascade and Hermosa Creeks with Steve Meyers or Don Oliver is agreat way to see some of the smaller waters when you get tired of thecrowds on the Juan. Steve guides with Duranglers; Don has his own gig. Good luck and tell'em hi for me. Ken Cole from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jun 12 13:03:45 2001 f5CI3iZ25129 ([208.58.203.203] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: Hexagonal reel seats Jason Russ Gooding (Golden Witch) and REC both sell hex winding checks, not sureabout Bob Venneri.. In addition, Jeff Wagner sells hex and quad punches formaking hex and quad checks out of round checks. The Best of Planing Formhasan article about using a punch. Absolutely and definitely no financial interests (notice I mentionedcompetitors)Bob Jason Swan wrote: While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use winding checks,preferring to wrap your thread up to or onto the cork. I have always likedthe hex shaped winding checks on some older rods. Anyone using those,andif so, where could one obtain some? Thanks, Jason SwanLogan, UT from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jun 12 13:17:18 2001 f5CIHGZ25700 Subject: Re: Hexagonal reel seats --=====================_1446231==_.ALT Jason:A hexagonal punch from someone like Jeff Wagner will "hex" up you round checks. Looks nice and is easy. Jeff also has ones for quads. There are probably several others who have these items, but I have Jeff's and they are very nice tools.Bob At 11:21 AM 6/12/2001 -0600, Jason Swan wrote:I have a conceptual problem that I'm sure someone on the list can help mewith. For those of you doing hexagonal reel seat spacers, what kind ofhardware to you use to secure the reel foot? I don't mean aluminum or NS,but what shape is the barrel or the lock rings. How does it secure? Isanyone trying to use hex shaped hardware with the spacer, or are you guysadapting the spacer to fit more traditional round hardware. While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use winding checks,preferring to wrap your thread up to or onto the cork. I have always likedthe hex shaped winding checks on some older rods. Anyone using those,andif so, where could one obtain some? Thanks, Jason SwanLogan, UT Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_1446231==_.ALT Jason:A hexagonal punch from someone like Jeff Wagner will "hex" upyou round checks. Looks nice and is easy. Jeff also has ones for quads.There are probably several others who have these items, but I have Jeff'sand they are very nice tools.BobAt 11:21 AM 6/12/2001 -0600, Jason Swan wrote:I have a conceptual problem thatI'm sure someone on the list can help me of or NS, anyone trying to use hex shaped hardware with the spacer, or are youguysadapting the spacer to fit more traditional round hardware.While I'm on the subject, I know that many of you don't use windingchecks, always liked those, andif so, where could one obtain some?Thanks,Jason SwanLogan, UT Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_1446231==_.ALT-- from rextutor@about.com Tue Jun 12 15:25:40 2001 f5CKPdZ00539 (NPlex 5.1.050) "rod" Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment Nice Words. I read them as salesmamshipand PR. I watched the sceneos directed as they happened. Sorry it is not second hand. You did not offer anyone the book at a lower price. She had to ask to get out of What you did wrong was you broke the rules on this listserve. You lied to everyone saying all your customers were satisfied. I have two (and only know of two) of your customers who recommend against you. I highly recommend you apologise and let it drop. I didn't even read all the PR. I know better than to be pursuaded by words alone. I have Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from wiljette@nmia.com Tue Jun 12 15:45:56 2001 f5CKjsZ01982 (Smail-3.2.0.109 1999-Oct-27 #6 built 2000-Oct-18) Subject: Re: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks f5CKjtZ01986 Jerry: I use round winding checks with an ID between the flat to flatdimension and the corner to corner dimension.at the grip. I mark the locationof the check on the butt section and using the lathe, trim the section downto the ID of the check stopping at the mark. The check slides on before thecork which locks it in place. No thread or glue is required. Will ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heres' as simple question: attaching winding checks Do most folks glue on winding checks? If so, what kind of glue andhow do you avoid excess glue on such a small item? No commercial interest in winding checks :) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@about.com Tue Jun 12 16:00:03 2001 f5CL02Z02677 (NPlex 5.1.050) Subject: Re: Making Reel Seat Butt Caps I'd like to read more about technicques on this subject. I would like to make ferrules, too. I have a Sherline lathe. Let me know if is not propritary , what you learn. Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jun 12 16:30:43 2001 f5CLUhZ04136 Subject: Re: ethics --------------7C4D7750C7BC8B803EFB4933 I also couldn't disagree more. I have had the priviledge of emaildealings with Darrell and have met him in person. A first class guy!Marty Don DeLoach wrote: I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers.Perhaps they have on this list.://About.com I couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell afew months back. It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--acouple of leaders, burl rings, and even some beautiful rod windingthread. When I ask him about it I was thinking he would say thatsomeone elses stuff got put in my shipping box by mistake. Nope--justa true nice guy throwing in some freebies--and I had never ordered from him before. I will order from Darrell again withouthesitation. Don DeLoach --------------7C4D7750C7BC8B803EFB4933 I also couldn't disagree more. I have had the priviledge of email dealingswith Darrell and have met him in person. A first class guy! MartyDon DeLoach wrote: have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never orderanything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up withdealers.Perhaps they have on this list. couldn't disagree more. I ordered cork from Darrell a few months back.It arrived quickly and with a few goodies inside--a couple of leaders,burl rings, and even some beautiful rod winding thread. When I ask himabout it I was thinking he would say that someone elses stuff got put inmy shipping box by mistake. Nope--just a true nice guy throwing in somefreebies--and I had never ordered from him DeLoach --------------7C4D7750C7BC8B803EFB4933-- from vfish@vFish.net Tue Jun 12 16:48:09 2001 f5CLm8Z05001 Subject: Customer Service, order fulfillment The gal was a high bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered to sellit to her the book at the retail price of $18.95 instead of the higherauction price of $37-47 (I don't remember the actual price). She found aused copy for $7 and apparently wanted me to match taht price which I couldnot and would not do, SO I CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HER OBLIGATIONTOBUY THE BOOK from ME. It is not my fault that a person feels an item isworth more than the retail price. I had bought a used copy of this book for$68 or around there. But, I too later found it for a lower price, but Ihonored my obligation and paid for the book that I bid on as I honor mycommitments but I don't hold others to my same standards. I certainlydidn't want to sell a new book to her below my cost for a used book pricewhich is below wholesale. I believe she was wrong for backing out of herobligation to buy the book but I did not hold her to her obligation. I alsotold her I would not post a negative feedback for her non-payment as shewasa friend of so-and-so. (I wouldn't have anyway as I don't want to be anegative person). I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The other example was the guy bought a book from me and I accidentlyshippedhim the wrong book (a more expensive book I might add). So apparently hisbook got shipped to the other person. That venue I used does not give outthe buyers email address so I could only send him a letter which he neverreplied to. Finally have an extended period of time, the other buyercontacted me and denied that he received the wrong book. So, I shipped thecorrect book to your friend and asked that he ship the wrong book to theother buyer... I made an honest mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... I neverreceived the other book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that gotscrewed on that deal... but yes, your guy did get his book from me and ittook far longer than normal. I also paid him for the shipping costs toforward the book to the other buyer. I'll have to contact him because if Ipromised him a free item and didn't send it... then certainly I would makegood on any promise made... but that transaction was awhile ago and I don'trecall those details... It's not ethics that should be at issue on those two orders, but logisticson one and I should be exonerated on the other... IF ANYTHING, YOUR FIRSTEXAMPLE SHOULD ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DOBUSINESS WITH. Please, your stories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors... askPeter M... I shipped him two of the same books... I have been going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 orders perday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send outorder slowly or send the wrong items... but, stuff happens... Right now, my order fulfillment is running approximately 90% of my ordersship within 2 business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1 businessday and 25% ship on the same day as the order has been received. Lately,one of my problems is that I have shipped items too quickly and when aperson is buying multiple items from me at auction, he doesn't notify me andso I've already shipped his first items so that we cannot combine them andsave him some money on shipping. But, at the current pace, I cannot affordto slow down my order fulfillment as I cannot allow my shipments to getbacked up... Regarding autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell formore when autographed by the author. They also often cost me more as wellsuch as Sinclair's books because I had to pay to have them shipped fromColorado to Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the doubleshipping plus compensate the author for taking the time to signing his booksand repackage and ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books aresuch aniche market, the number of books printed is usually small so a small numberof books with an autograph commands a much higher price. That's just thewayit is. Rex, I can honestly say that if you do business with me you will not bedisappointed. I have many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's message below is civil and he takes a position and view that isdifferent than mine. However, his post is a good example how we can discussan issue without the namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn'tdone business with me and it's second hand info so again, I feel that thewhole truth was not included in his post. If anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact medirectly, OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem that youfeel you have. If I fail to resolve the issue, then take it to the court ofpublic opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister reallywant to read about order fulfillment and customer service issues... Ormaybe they do... this is a classic example of growing pains of a newbusiness. As far as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president of aboard of Realtors, Realtor of the Year, past president of a Lions Club, 1stVP of a Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of aChamber of Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgagecorporation employing over 50 people. I have personally originated over $20million/month in home loans which is more than most credit unions with astaff of 10 people. I find it funny that people are accusing me of ethicalproblems on $25.00 items when I've been trusted with hundreds of millions ofdollars in the past. I have been an arbitrator for ethics and professionalstandards hearings where I was one of the judges (arbitrators)... I've alsobeen a 1031 exchange accomodator where I would hold several hundredthousands of dollars in my bank account until my client finds a new propertyto complete his exchange. My resume is many pages long... but if people aregoing to make wild accuasations, then I guess the audience should know alittle more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run off with your$50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people out ofmoney... In the many thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions mycompaniesor I have represented, I was sued twice and both cases I won. Both caseswhere transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that theagents worked for me. One was a sue everyone case and the plaintiffapologized for naming me and they later dropped my company from the suit,the other was a small claims suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrongand lost during a small claims court. Most would have settled to make eithergo away but I'm not willing to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the list... I apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, butif people are going to post messages such as the one below, I feel compelledto reply to tell the whole story. I know this was far more than you neededto know. Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers.Perhaps they have on this list.One gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel lether bid $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. Ishowed her the same book on another site. Another friend of oursbought a book from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it fromthem. He promised thread for the inconvenience but convenientlyforgot the thread. He thinks because a live author signs it , thebook has increased value. Kept making excuses etc. Don't mentionlawyer to me as I relaying facts I have observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have apologized for breaking therules and let it drop. The ethical result speaks for itself. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com The = bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered to sell it to her the = don't remember the actual price). She found a used copy for $7 and = CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HER OBLIGATION TO BUY THE BOOK FROMME. It = my fault that a person feels an item is worth more than the retail = found it for a lower price, but I honored my obligation and paid for the = that I bid on as I honor my commitments but I don't hold others to my = she was wrong for backing out of her obligation to buy the book but I = feedback for her non-payment as she was a friend of so-and-so. (I = WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The = was the guy bought a book from me and I accidently shipped him the wrong = more expensive book I might add). So apparently his book got shipped to = so I could only send him a letter which he never replied to. Finally = extended period of time, the other buyer contacted me and denied that he = buyer... I made = mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... I never received the = book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that got screwed on that = item and didn't send it... then certainly I would make good on any = made... but that transaction was awhile ago and I don't recall those = It's = should be at issue on those two orders, but logistics on one and I = ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DO BUSINESS =WITH. are second hand info and are half truths. I will concede that I'm not = and that I've made a few shipping errors... ask Peter M... I shipped him = months I've gone from shipping 1-3 orders per day to 15-30 orders per = will not argue that I've made a few shipping errors along the journey. = At any = fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm only human and am = perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send out order slowly or send = Right = business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1 business day and = is that I have shipped items too quickly and when a person is buying = items from me at auction, he doesn't notify me and so I've already = first items so that we cannot combine them and save him some money up... autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell for more = Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the double shipping = compensate the author for taking the time to signing his books and = ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books are such a niche market, = number of books printed is usually small so a small number of books with = is. Rex, I = many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's = is civil and he takes a position and view that is different than = However, his post is a good example how we can discuss an issue without = namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn't done business with = it's second hand info so again, I feel that the whole truth was not = his post. anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact me = OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem that you feel = opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister really want = business. as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president of a = Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of a Chamber = Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgage corporation = over 50 people. I have personally million/month = funny that people are accusing me of ethical problems on $25.00 items = been trusted with hundreds of millions of dollars in the past. I have = arbitrator for ethics and professional standards hearings where I was = judges (arbitrators)... I've also been a 1031 exchange accomodator where = hold several hundred thousands of dollars in my bank account until my = finds a new property to complete his exchange. My resume is many pages = but if people are going to make wild accuasations, then I guess the = should know a little more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run = your $50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people = money... thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions my companies or I = transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that the agents = me and they later dropped my company from the suit, the other was a = suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrong and lost during a small = to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the = apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, but if people are = post messages such as the one below, I feel compelled to reply to tell = know. Respectfully, Leewww.vfish.net TutorSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 vfish@vFish.net; rcurry@ttlc.net; rodSubject: RE: BAMBOO: = Fiction & FlyrodsI have two experiences= Darrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on = eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. = gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel let = $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. I showed her = from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it from them. He = thread for the inconvenience but conveniently forgot the thread. = because a live author signs it , the book has increased value. = making excuses etc. Don't mention lawyer to me as I relaying facts = observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have = itself. http://About.com from vfish@vFish.net Tue Jun 12 17:40:18 2001 f5CMeIZ06496 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:40:10 -0500 "rod" Subject: RE: Customer Service, order fulfillment This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Attached is my email conversations with the person you are referring to....The name has been deleted to protect the innocent. I'm sorry Rex, but you are VERY wrong and you should not be calling peoplea liar unless you have all the facts. The facts prove you are wrong. You oweme an apology. I wonder if you are able to admit your mistakes. Second hand means you were not directly involved in the transaction. Youwere not the buyer, therefore, your info is second hand. I'm very disappointed CB gave you the impression that I did not treat herfairly, I think any reasonable person would agree with me after reading theemails below, that I bent over backwards to be nice to her. The rules of anauction is that if you bid, you must buy. Clearly I let her out of thedeal, and promised to not give her any negative feedback which, most sellersless tolerant that I, would have dinged her. Please read the emails and thentell me I lied. When I make a mistake, I'm the first to admit my mistakes... But I willdefend myself to the nth degree when I'm right... Oh well, your first message was civil and non-offensive enough... Jeez, Idon't know what you are trying to prove by flaming people. Especially whenyou are wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself. I hope my many friends onthe list will not buy into any of the misinformation being spouted here... Again, if anyone wants to flame me or anyone on the list, you should reallyhave your facts correct otherwise you're wasting everyone's time and youaredamaging my reputation which I feel is VERY valuable to me. PLEASE, take this flaming offlist, my patience is beginning to wear thinwith all these false statements... Regards, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net P.S. Thank God for email... The attorneys on the list should tell thesepeople they are really asking for trouble if they make slanderous/libelousremarks in writing that are clearly false. Help! I've got packages to shipand I'm really too busy for this bunk. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: RE: Congratulations! You have won Mills, Leonard, Chubb BambooFly Rod Catalogs Hello, You are welcome to cancel the purchase of this book. I will not give you badfeedback. Actually I paid $68.00 for a copy of this book last year beforebecoming a book dealer. This book has sold for over $90.00 at auction. I started this auction at $9.99, you were the one that determined how muchthe book was worth. If you wish to complete the purchase, you can pay $18.95 plus $5 s/h/i for atotal of $23.95. Either way, please tell me what you decide. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: RE: Congratulations! You have won Mills, Leonard, ChubbBamboo Fly Rod Catalogs Mr Lee I have found this book for $7 at halfcom from another seller. Isn't $36awfully high ? Would you put in bad feedback on me if I asked you to sell it to the nexthighest bidder or give me a more reasonable price ? Just seeking informaitonI am not trying to force you to do anything. CB -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment Nice Words. I read them as salesmamship and PR. I watched the sceneosdirected as they happened. Sorry it is not second hand. You did notoffer anyone the book at a lower price. She had to ask to get out ofthe deal. So you lied to me in the email.What you did wrong was you broke the rules on this listserve. Youlied to everyone saying all your customers were satisfied. I have two(and only know of two) of your customers who recommend against you.I highly recommend you apologise and let it drop. I didn't even readall the PR. I know better than to be pursuaded by words alone. I havedirectly viewed your actions. Answering all these points is wastedtime by me becuase I never buy ino that kind of flim flam retoric. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com conversations with the person you are referring to.... The name has been = but you are VERY wrong and you should not be calling people a liar = have all the facts. The facts prove you are wrong. You owe me an = I wonder if you are able to admit your mistakes. Second = therefore, your info is second hand. I'm = disappointed CB gave you the impression that I did not treat her fairly, = any reasonable person would agree with me after reading the emails = bent over backwards to be nice to her. The rules of an auction is that = give her any negative feedback which, most sellers less tolerant that I, = lied. When I make a mistake, I'm the first to admit my = right... Oh = message was civil and non-offensive enough... Jeez, I don't know what = trying to prove by flaming people. Especially when you are wrong. You = ashamed of yourself. I hope my many friends on the list will not buy = the misinformation being spouted here... Again, = wants to flame me or anyone on the list, you should really have your = correct otherwise you're wasting everyone's time and you are damaging my = me. PLEASE, take this flaming offlist, my patience is = wear thin with all these false statements... Regards, Darrell Lee they are really asking for trouble if they make slanderous/libelous = writing that are clearly false. Help! I've got packages to ship and I'm = too busy for this bunk. -----Original =Message----- BxxxxxSubject: RE: = Congratulations! You have won Mills, Leonard, Chubb Bamboo Fly Rod Catalogs = Hello,You are welcome tocancel = of this book. I will not give you bad feedback. Actually I paid $68.00 = copy of this book last year before becoming a book dealer. This book has = I started this auctionat =$9.99, you were the one thatdetermined how = book was worth.If you wish to complete= you can pay $18.95 plus $5 s/h/i for a total of $23.95. Either way, = me what you decide.Darrell-----Original =Message-----From: Cxxxxxxx =BxxxxxxSent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 darrell@vFish.netSubject: Re: RE: Congratulations! You have won = Catalogs Mr Lee I have found this book= halfcom from another seller. Isn't $36 awfully high ? Would you put in bad = I asked you to sell it to the next highest bidder or give me a more = price ? Just seeking informaiton I am not trying to force you to do = CB TutorSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 1:29 fulfillment Nice Words. I read them as salesmamship and PR. I = the sceneos directed as they happened. Sorry it is not second = You did not offer anyone the book at a lower price. She had to = you did wrong was you broke the rules on this listserve. You = everyone saying all your customers were satisfied. I have two = only know of two) of your customers who recommend against you. = highly recommend you apologise and let it drop. I didn't even read = retoric. from mgjanik@yahoo.com Tue Jun 12 18:21:50 2001 f5CNLoZ07592 2001 16:21:49 PDT Subject: The integrity of Darrell Lee 992388109=:27863" --0-1804289383-992388109=:27863 I just have to weigh in on this, sorry for the bandwith for those of you whothink its wasted space. I bid a large sum of money on an ebay auction thatDarrell was running. Within the duration of the auction I had a family crisisand was not able to pay out at the end. Darrell excused me from myobligation and even gave me good feedback. I might add that he took afinancial hit because ebay charges the seller for completed auctions. Shortlyafter, I came into some money and ordered 10 culms of bamboo and someother supplies from Darrell. The culms have come up late and Darrell hasupgraded me to all top of the line cane because of the delay. He is a stand-up guy in my book and a real gentleman when it comes to doing business. Asfar as ebay goes, you make the bid, nobody twists your arm, if you find outlater that its worth less, thats the way it goes, no sense in whining about it! Thats what makes the world go round. The seller is not responsible for whatthe bidder!'s final price is, he or she is just making the item availiable and there shouldbe no guilt in that. ---------------------------------Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.--0-1804289383- 992388109=:27863 I just have to weigh in on this, sorry for the bandwith for those of you who that he took a financial hit because ebay charges the seller for completed come up late and Darrell has upgraded me to all top of the line cane because bid, nobody twists your arm, if you find out later that its worth less, thats The seller is not responsible for what the bidder's final price is, he or she isjust making the item availiable and there should be no guilt inthat.Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! MailPersonal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.--0-1804289383-992388109=:27863-- from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Tue Jun 12 18:24:56 2001 f5CNOtZ07767 f5CNOmQ171684;Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:24:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment A note to AllI have had 6 to 8 dealings with Darrell lee in last twoyears, He has been fare with me every Time, books, thread, and caneTony Larson----- Original Message ----- Subject: Customer Service, order fulfillment The gal was a high bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered tosellit to her the book at the retail price of $18.95 instead of the higherauction price of $37-47 (I don't remember the actual price). She found aused copy for $7 and apparently wanted me to match taht price which Icouldnot and would not do, SO I CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HEROBLIGATION TOBUY THE BOOK from ME. It is not my fault that a person feels an item isworth more than the retail price. I had bought a used copy of this bookfor$68 or around there. But, I too later found it for a lower price, but Ihonored my obligation and paid for the book that I bid on as I honor mycommitments but I don't hold others to my same standards. I certainlydidn't want to sell a new book to her below my cost for a used book pricewhich is below wholesale. I believe she was wrong for backing out of herobligation to buy the book but I did not hold her to her obligation. Ialsotold her I would not post a negative feedback for her non-payment as shewasa friend of so-and-so. (I wouldn't have anyway as I don't want to be anegative person). I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The other example was the guy bought a book from me and I accidentlyshippedhim the wrong book (a more expensive book I might add). So apparently hisbook got shipped to the other person. That venue I used does not give outthe buyers email address so I could only send him a letter which he neverreplied to. Finally have an extended period of time, the other buyercontacted me and denied that he received the wrong book. So, I shippedthecorrect book to your friend and asked that he ship the wrong book to theother buyer... I made an honest mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... Ineverreceived the other book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that gotscrewed on that deal... but yes, your guy did get his book from me and ittook far longer than normal. I also paid him for the shipping costs toforward the book to the other buyer. I'll have to contact him because ifIpromised him a free item and didn't send it... then certainly I would makegood on any promise made... but that transaction was awhile ago and Idon'trecall those details... It's not ethics that should be at issue on those two orders, but logisticson one and I should be exonerated on the other... IF ANYTHING, YOUR FIRSTEXAMPLE SHOULD ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DOBUSINESS WITH. Please, your stories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors...askPeter M... I shipped him two of the same books... I have been going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 ordersperday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send outorder slowly or send the wrong items... but, stuff happens... Right now, my order fulfillment is running approximately 90% of my ordersship within 2 business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1businessday and 25% ship on the same day as the order has been received. Lately,one of my problems is that I have shipped items too quickly and when aperson is buying multiple items from me at auction, he doesn't notify meandso I've already shipped his first items so that we cannot combine them andsave him some money on shipping. But, at the current pace, I cannotaffordto slow down my order fulfillment as I cannot allow my shipments to getbacked up... Regarding autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell formore when autographed by the author. They also often cost me more aswellsuch as Sinclair's books because I had to pay to have them shipped fromColorado to Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the doubleshipping plus compensate the author for taking the time to signing hisbooksand repackage and ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books aresuchaniche market, the number of books printed is usually small so a smallnumberof books with an autograph commands a much higher price. That's just thewayit is. Rex, I can honestly say that if you do business with me you will not bedisappointed. I have many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's message below is civil and he takes a position and view that isdifferent than mine. However, his post is a good example how we candiscussan issue without the namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn'tdone business with me and it's second hand info so again, I feel that thewhole truth was not included in his post. If anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact medirectly, OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem thatyoufeel you have. If I fail to resolve the issue, then take it to the courtofpublic opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister reallywant to read about order fulfillment and customer service issues... Ormaybe they do... this is a classic example of growing pains of a newbusiness. As far as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president ofaboard of Realtors, Realtor of the Year, past president of a Lions Club,1stVP of a Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of aChamber of Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgagecorporation employing over 50 people. I have personally originated over$20million/month in home loans which is more than most credit unions with astaff of 10 people. I find it funny that people are accusing me ofethicalproblems on $25.00 items when I've been trusted with hundreds of millionsofdollars in the past. I have been an arbitrator for ethics and professionalstandards hearings where I was one of the judges (arbitrators)... I'vealsobeen a 1031 exchange accomodator where I would hold several hundredthousands of dollars in my bank account until my client finds a newpropertyto complete his exchange. My resume is many pages long... but if peoplearegoing to make wild accuasations, then I guess the audience should know alittle more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run off with your$50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people outofmoney... In the many thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions mycompaniesor I have represented, I was sued twice and both cases I won. Both caseswhere transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that theagents worked for me. One was a sue everyone case and the plaintiffapologized for naming me and they later dropped my company from thesuit,the other was a small claims suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrongand lost during a small claims court. Most would have settled to makeeithergo away but I'm not willing to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the list... I apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, butif people are going to post messages such as the one below, I feelcompelledto reply to tell the whole story. I know this was far more than youneededto know. Respectfully, Darrell Leewww.vfish.net -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: RE: BAMBOO: Fact Fiction & Flyrods I have two experiences with Darrel from two different people thattell me that he does live on the edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of ethics eventually catch up with dealers.Perhaps they have on this list.One gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel lether bid $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. Ishowed her the same book on another site. Another friend of oursbought a book from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it fromthem. He promised thread for the inconvenience but convenientlyforgot the thread. He thinks because a live author signs it , thebook has increased value. Kept making excuses etc. Don't mentionlawyer to me as I relaying facts I have observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have apologized for breaking therules and let it drop. The ethical result speaks for itself. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The = bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered to sell it to her the = don't remember the actual price). She found a used copy for $7 and = CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HER OBLIGATION TO BUY THE BOOK FROMME. It = my fault that a person feels an item is worth more than the retail = found it for a lower price, but I honored my obligation and paid for the = that I bid on as I honor my commitments but I don't hold others to my = she was wrong for backing out of her obligation to buy the book but I = feedback for her non-payment as she was a friend of so-and-so. (I = WHAT I DID WRONG HERE... The = was the guy bought a book from me and I accidently shipped him the wrong= more expensive book I might add). So apparently his book got shipped to = = so I could only send him a letter which he never replied to. Finally = extended period of time, the other buyer contacted me and denied that he= buyer... I made = mistake and tried to correct it as best I could... I never received the = book back from the 2nd guy so I'm the one that got screwed on that = item and didn't send it... then certainly I would make good on any = made... but that transaction was awhile ago and I don't recall those = It's = should be at issue on those two orders, but logistics on one and I = ILLUSTRATE WHY I'M AN EXCELLENT PERSON TO DO BUSINESS =WITH. are second hand info and are half truths. I will concede that I'm not = and that I've made a few shipping errors... ask Peter M... I shipped him = months I've gone from shipping 1-3 orders per day to 15-30 orders per = will not argue that I've made a few shipping errors along the journey. = At any = fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm only human and am = perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send out order slowly or send = Right = business days of receiving payment. 50% ship within 1 business day and = is that I have shipped items too quickly and when a person is buying = items from me at auction, he doesn't notify me and so I've already = first items so that we cannot combine them and save him some money up... autographed books... rare and collectible books always sell for more = Kentucky and then to me in Los Angeles and I'd pay the double shipping = compensate the author for taking the time to signing his books and = ship them to me... Because the bamboo rod books are such a niche market,= number of books printed is usually small so a small number of books with = is. Rex, I = many hundreds of satisfied customers. Rex's = is civil and he takes a position and view that is different than = However, his post is a good example how we can discuss an issue without = namecalling and heated emotions. However, he hasn't done business with = it's second hand info so again, I feel that the whole truth was not = his post. anyone else has had a problem with an order, you should contact me = OFFLIST and give me an opportunity to correct any problem that you feel = opinion, but I really don't think the majority of the lister really want = business. as ethics, listers know little about me... I'm a past president of a = Hospital Advisory board, former director, treasurer, V.P. of a Chamber = Commerce and former owner of a real estate and a mortgage corporation= over 50 people. I have personally million/month = funny that people are accusing me of ethical problems on $25.00 items = been trusted with hundreds of millions of dollars in the past. I have = arbitrator for ethics and professional standards hearings where I was = judges (arbitrators)... I've also been a 1031 exchange accomodator where= hold several hundred thousands of dollars in my bank account until my = finds a new property to complete his exchange. My resume is many pages = but if people are going to make wild accuasations, then I guess the = should know a little more about me... Believe me, I'm not going to run = your $50.00 and I don't stay up nights dreaming up ways to scheme people= money... thousands of real estate and mortgage transactions my companies or I = transactions that I was not directly involved excepting that the agents = me and they later dropped my company from the suit, the other was a = suit in which the plaintiff was clearly wrong and lost during a small = to compromise when I feel I'm right. To the = apologize that I have to write such lengthy messages, but if people are = post messages such as the one below, I feel compelled to reply to tell = know. Lee TutorSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:12 vfish@vFish.net; rcurry@ttlc.net; rodSubject: RE: BAMBOO:= Fiction & FlyrodsI have twoexperiences = Darrel from two different people that tell me that he does live on = edge. I would never order anything from him. Those kind of eventually catch up with dealers. Perhaps they have on this list. = gal, I know, in our little rod group wanted a book . Darrel let = $46 for a $7 book. The bidding was not stopped early. I showed her = = from Darrel and spend 6 months trying to get it from them. He = thread for the inconvenience but conveniently forgot the thread. = because a live author signs it , the book has increased value. = making excuses etc. Don't mention lawyer to me as I relaying facts= observed directly myself.A bigger man with integrity would have = itself. http://About.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jun 12 18:57:25 2001 f5CNvOZ08427 Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:57:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment Darrell,I'm very sorry I started all this. Please accept my apologies. EVERYONE --Let's take it off-list from here on out. Yours,Harry Boyd--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from timklein@qwest.net Tue Jun 12 19:34:10 2001 f5D0Y9Z09006 (63.225.242.122) Subject: Re: 10 commandments Don wrote: #12 - Don't set the hook on Kayaks. Especially when it's a fabric covered kayak that you happen to be fishingfrom... ---Tim from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jun 12 19:34:57 2001 f5D0YuZ09124 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment --part1_6f.169e526e.28580f27_boundary In a message dated 6/12/01 2:48:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,vfish@vFish.net writes: Please, your stories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors...askPeter M... I shipped him two of the same books... I have been going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 ordersperday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to send outorder slowly or send the wrong items... I know that Darrell has recently purchased a program to help him track his customer's orders because I was the person that told him about theprogram. Now get off Darrell's case. Just how anyone can be so stupid to bid too $#%$#%$% much for an item is beyond me. If you don't know the retail price of the item, don't blame the seller. There's no auction that has an IQ test required before you bid - too bad. Maybe eBay should require that. That's our PC horse-$hit "you're never to blame for your own stupidy"showing up at it's finest. I was taught a deal is a deal - my handshake is my bond. Plus don't whine about getting screwed if it's your own dumb (I was going to say damn) fault for overbiding. There is an expression that's not used much these days. "My fault - no excuse." No, now it's I didn't know drinking nine quarts of booze would cause me to drive over the streetlight - it's not my fault. I didn't know smoking 3 packs a day for 40 years would cause cancer. The package didn't have my namelisted as the person that WOULD get cancer. I should sue booze, tobacco,McDonalds etc etc. Learn to think, learn to have moral values. Learn to have moral values even when nobody's looking. Grow up people, by adults. Oh, and it's not my fault that I'm writing this. So please don't e-mail me. E- mail the freaking California governor - it's not his fault we don't have electricy - it not anyone's fault for being a horse's behind. Don Burns --part1_6f.169e526e.28580f27_boundary In a message dated6/12/01 2:48:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, vfish@vFish.net writes: Please, yourstories are second hand info and are half truths. I willconcede that I'm not perfect and that I've made a few shipping errors...ask going thrugrowing pains as in the last 4 months I've gone from shipping 1-3 ordersperday to 15-30 orders per day and I will not argue that I've made a fewshipping errors along the journey. . At any rate, my fulfillment procedures have improved and while I'm onlyhuman and am less than perfect, it is certainly not my intent to sendout happens I know that Darrell has recently purchased a program to help him trackhis customer's orders because I was the person that told him about theprogram. Now get off Darrell's case. Just how anyone can be so stupid to bid too $#%$#%$% much for anitem is beyond me. If you don't know the retail price of the item, don't blamethe seller. There's no auction that has an IQ test required before you bid - too bad. Maybe eBay should require that. That's our PC horse-$hit "you're never to blame for your own stupidy"showing up at it's finest. I was taught a deal is a deal - my handshake is mybond. Plus don't whine about getting screwed if it's your own dumb (I wasgoing to say damn) fault for overbiding. There is an expression that's not used much these days. "My fault - no excuse." No, now it's I didn't know drinking nine quarts of booze would cause meto drive over the streetlight - it's not my fault. I didn't know smoking 3packs a day for 40 years would cause cancer. The package didn't have myname listed as the person that WOULD get cancer. I should sue booze, tobacco,McDonalds etc etc. Learn to think, learn to have moral values. Learn to have moral valueseven when nobody's looking. Grow up people, by adults. Oh, and it's not my fault that I'm writing this. So please don't e-mail me. E- mail the freaking California governor - it's not his fault we don't have electricy - it not anyone's fault for being a horse's behind. Don Burns --part1_6f.169e526e.28580f27_boundary-- from rvenneri@ulster.net Tue Jun 12 19:48:15 2001 f5D0mEZ09505 Subject: Re: Customer Service, order fulfillment DARLENE URBANSKI wrote: A note to AllI have had 6 to 8 dealings with Darrell lee in last twoyears, He has been fare with me every Time, books, thread, and caneTony Larson----- Original Message -----From: Darrell Lee Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 4:47 PMSubject: Customer Service, order fulfillment The gal was a high bidder on a book... that is correct... I offered tosellit to her the book at the retail price of $18.95 instead of the higherauction price of $37-47 (I don't remember the actual price). She found aused copy for $7 and apparently wanted me to match taht price which Icouldnot and would not do, SO I CHEERFULLY RELEASED HER from HEROBLIGATION TOBUY THE BOOK from ME. It is not my fault that a person feels an item isworth more than the retail price. I had bought a used copy of this bookfor$68 or around there. But, I too later found it for a lower price, but Ihonored my obligation and paid for the book that I bid on as I honor mycommitments but I don't hold others to my same standards. I certainlydidn't want to sell a new book to her below my cost for a used book pricewhich is below wholesale. I believe she was wrong for backing out of herobligation to buy the book but I did not hold her to her obligation. Ialsotold her I would not post a negative feedback for her non-payment as shewasa friend o