185...what would be the optimum time and temperature for heat setting =this glue? Thanks,losey Hi all, I'm looking for a little advice...I am = rod blank using URAC 185...what would be the optimum time and = heat setting this glue? Thanks,losey from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 09:18:08 2001 f5LEI8Z19957 HAA06075; Subject: Re: Old Plane Blades I would agree it is a type of hand planning. I have no issues with that. ButI do know there are others who differentiate between handplanning andmilling. I recently read about this same issue in one of the old issues ofthe Bamboo magazine. I know some can be sensitive about the semantics sotokeep the peace I call a mill a mill. I personally cant wait to get ahandmill and start making some quads and pents. Cutting twice the amountata time is almost to good to be true. Adam----- Original Message ----- Vigil' Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades a handmill is hand planing, the difference is that the plane has twoblades and cuts both sides at one pass. Twice as therapeutic! Patrick W. Coffey from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Jun 21 09:22:28 2001 f5LEMSZ20241 Subject: Re: Tip /Warning Hi Mark,Are you still active in RC models. I've got several but I have been inactive fora spell. My brother is an active modeler. In a couple of years when I retire, Iwill probably pick it up again...between rods. Good suggestion, I haven't been doing that with the epoxy. I'll have to testthe GolfSmith epoxy and see if it will thin with heat. No, all epoxy will not thin with heat. The (some of) the 5 minute variety will"clabber" when you heat them. When building, I saturate the firewall sectionof the model with epoxy and heat it to watery consistency. Did that with 5minute epoxy once. Big mistake. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comLazybee45@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 6/20/01 4:36:12 PM Central Daylight Time, flyfish@defnet.com writes: I have used Devcon for stuff like this too, but my FAVORITE is SIG! They make a couple of different versions, from 5 minute to 30 minute and the mixture varies too. but each has clear instructions. Get it from Hobby Shops. SIG is a model airplane manufacturing company from Montezuma Iowaand has a first rate reputation. My ONLY interest in this is the huge amount of money I have "invested" in SIG models, plans, parts, wood, glue, etc etc etc over the years! Also, HAzel is a nice person. I spent a rainy afternoon sitting under the wing of her Clipped wing Piper Cub on a Fathers Day one year during the annual "fly in" with her and a couple of other model airplane people. But I digress! Tip here. Put the epoxy on, slip the piece on and use a heat gun to gently heat the area, allowing the epoxy to turn "watery" and flow. This will help it to flow into all the tiny crevices and voids and give you better grip. I suppose that this will work with any epoxy. This helps speed the furing as well. Use alcohol to clean up any excess drips. mark from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Jun 21 09:46:06 2001 f5LEk5Z21185 (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA28798; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:46:00 - ETAsAhQpKCGY6/KvBjaghe6O8OgMQV0dSQIUShXfsO0nbVn9AmOHhOFLORyQuMM= Subject: Re: Tip /Warning -0400 I have been using the slow cure Sig epoxy on my ferrules for yearswithout a failure. This is the 2:1 mix. Set them in my lathe with asmall chip of wood and press on with the tailstock and leave itovernight. Regards, Jerry Young from dryfly@erols.com Thu Jun 21 09:46:48 2001 f5LEkmZ21290 ([208.58.202.30] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: heat setting URAC I put the glued blank into my heat gun oven for an hour at 175 degreesand then put it in my drying cabinet overnight. Even after heating theblank in the oven I always wait 24 hours before I remove the string andstart sanding. Bob Douglas Losey wrote: Hi all, I'm looking for a little advice...I am gluing up a rod blankusing URAC 185...what would be the optimum time and temperature forheat setting this glue?Thanks,losey from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Jun 21 09:47:33 2001 f5LElXZ21461 Subject: Fwd: undersized ferrules k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:I posted this a year or two ago but for the new list members: If you find you have over sanded and have an undersized male ferrule, youmight try this. Go to an aquarium store and purchase a small bag ofreptile/amphibian sand. It's the very fine sand. Now you need a steel rodjust smaller in diameter than the inside of the male ferrule. Make sure bothends of the steel rod are square and flat on the end. You only need a pieceabout 2 or 3 inches long. Now fill the ferrule about 2/3 with the fine sand;enough to fill the section that will fit inside the female. Now place the closedend of the ferrule on a solid surface. An oak block should work well. Placethe rod into the ferrule and seat it on the sand. Now tap the rod with a smallhammer. Gently, a lot of small "pecks" is better than one big "whack". Thesand spreads the force of the hammer and causes it to swell. Hit it to hardand you can deform the ferrule but if you are gentle, you can bring it to justthe right diameter. Regards, Onis k5vkq@ix.netcom.com from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Jun 21 10:07:58 2001 f5LF7wZ22507 Subject: Re: use of Devcon 5 minute epoxy, etc. Several of you have recently discussed the use of Devcon epoxy for gluingferrules. I believe that Chris Bogart discussed/recommended using Devcon 5minute epoxy a few years ago(a search through the archives supports this).Perhaps he could enlighten us as to his success/failure with the latterover this period of time. I have a dozen or so early rods ferruled with thelatter and they have held up fine for the past 4-5 years or so. These rodsare fished a good 250 days a year (if not more), although I recentlychanged to Pliobond. Chris, are you out there?Jerry Snider At 09:54 PM 06/20/2001 -0400, Bob Williams wrote:I agree Accraglas (available from Brownells) is the way to go, I've used itever since John Zimny recommened it at the Carlisle gathering a few yearsback, never a problem. Bob----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 8:02 PMSubject: Re: Tip/Warning Guys;If you are going to use an epoxy glue for ferrules, don't use anythingyou can buy at the hardware store , specially if it says Devcon anywhereon the package, you'll be sorry someday. Accraglas Gel(green box) willbond them as close to permanently as 2 different materials can get. Iwould imagine that the golf shaft formula's will work well,too. Everyferrule I ever glued with a Devcon product failed. We are dealing with 2different materials with different rates of expansion and contraction,so we need an adhesive with a bit of flexibility, otherwise, when themetal moves, the bond is broken.John from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu Jun 21 10:14:36 2001 f5LFEZZ22926 pri.pacificare.com 2001 15:16:37 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:14:29 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Actually it's not. The way the cutter inserts are configured, the cuttingaction is more like scraping than cutting. One of the reasons chips at thenodes aren't a problem. Also, the effort to push the planing unit through acut is greater than taking a cut with a hand plane.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:04 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades a handmill is hand planing, the difference is that the plane has twoblades and cuts both sides at one pass. Twice as therapeutic! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu Jun 21 10:23:42 2001 f5LFNfZ23484 pri.pacificare.com 2001 15:25:44 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:23:35 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades I can see I wasn't too clear in my reply. I agree it is hand planing, but Idon't get the "therapeutic" satisfaction out of Morgan Handmilling than I doregular hand planing.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Actually it's not. The way the cutter inserts are configured, the cuttingaction is more like scraping than cutting. One of the reasons chips at thenodes aren't a problem. Also, the effort to push the planing unit throughacut is greater than taking a cut with a hand plane.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:04 AM Vigil'Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades a handmill is hand planing, the difference is that the plane has twoblades and cuts both sides at one pass. Twice as therapeutic! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from dryfly@erols.com Thu Jun 21 10:24:36 2001 f5LFOZZ23607 ([208.58.202.30] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: use of Devcon 5 minute epoxy, etc. Jerry you're my new hero, 250 days fishing a year! Jealous Bob ;-) Jerry Snider wrote: Several of you have recently discussed the use of Devcon epoxy for gluingferrules. I believe that Chris Bogart discussed/recommended using Devcon5minute epoxy a few years ago(a search through the archives supportsthis).Perhaps he could enlighten us as to his success/failure with the latterover this period of time. I have a dozen or so early rods ferruled with thelatter and they have held up fine for the past 4-5 years or so. These rodsare fished a good 250 days a year (if not more), although I recentlychanged to Pliobond. Chris, are you out there?Jerry Snider At 09:54 PM 06/20/2001 -0400, Bob Williams wrote:I agree Accraglas (available from Brownells) is the way to go, I've used itever since John Zimny recommened it at the Carlisle gathering a fewyearsback, never a problem. Bob----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 8:02 PMSubject: Re: Tip/Warning Guys;If you are going to use an epoxy glue for ferrules, don't use anythingyou can buy at the hardware store , specially if it says Devconanywhereon the package, you'll be sorry someday. Accraglas Gel(green box) willbond them as close to permanently as 2 different materials can get. Iwould imagine that the golf shaft formula's will work well,too. Everyferrule I ever glued with a Devcon product failed. We are dealing with 2different materials with different rates of expansion and contraction,so we need an adhesive with a bit of flexibility, otherwise, when themetal moves, the bond is broken.John from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Thu Jun 21 10:38:08 2001 f5LFc7Z24215 Subject: Re: heat setting URAC Thanks Bob, Let me ask another question....do you place the glued blank in your ovenimmediately after gluing and wrapping or do you let it first cure at roomtemperature?.... losey----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: heat setting URAC I put the glued blank into my heat gun oven for an hour at 175 degreesand then put it in my drying cabinet overnight. Even after heating theblank in the oven I always wait 24 hours before I remove the string andstart sanding. Bob Douglas Losey wrote: Hi all, I'm looking for a little advice...I am gluing up a rod blankusing URAC 185...what would be the optimum time and temperature forheat setting this glue?Thanks,losey from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jun 21 10:44:18 2001 f5LFiHZ24532 IAA25956 IAA08477 (5.5.2650.21) "'Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com'" Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades actually the cutting edge on a scraper is a micro plane blade and cutsthrough the fibers, if it's blunt then it tears through the fiber and does notleave a smooth surface. Scrapers edges are rolled with a burnished and ifyou magnify them you will see that it is a wedge, like a plane blade, that ispushed through the fibers. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Actually it's not. The way the cutter inserts are configured, the cuttingaction is more like scraping than cutting. One of the reasons chips at thenodes aren't a problem. Also, the effort to push the planing unit through acut is greater than taking a cut with a hand plane.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:04 AM Vigil'Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades a handmill is hand planing, the difference is that the plane has twoblades and cuts both sides at one pass. Twice as therapeutic! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu Jun 21 10:56:51 2001 f5LFuoZ25335 pri.pacificare.com 2001 15:58:52 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:56:43 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Which brings a question to my mind.....I wonder what would happen if I tried burnishing the edges of the cutterinserts?Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:44 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades actually the cutting edge on a scraper is a micro plane blade and cutsthrough the fibers, if it's blunt then it tears through the fiber and doesnot leave a smooth surface. Scrapers edges are rolled with a burnished andif you magnify them you will see that it is a wedge, like a plane blade,that is pushed through the fibers. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Actually it's not. The way the cutter inserts are configured, thecuttingaction is more like scraping than cutting. One of the reasons chips atthenodes aren't a problem. Also, the effort to push the planing unitthrough acut is greater than taking a cut with a hand plane.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:04 AM 'AdamVigil'Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades a handmill is hand planing, the difference is that the plane has twoblades and cuts both sides at one pass. Twice as therapeutic! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from dryfly@erols.com Thu Jun 21 11:07:24 2001 f5LG7NZ25869 ([208.58.202.30] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: heat setting URAC Doug URAC sets up fairly quickly. After I glue a section, I wipe it down with awet sponge to remove any excess surface glue, then hang the glued sectionona hook until all sections are glued up. I quickly sponge the excess glue offthe binder before I roll the sections between two boards and straighten themas best possible, then into the oven. from putting the first glued sectionthrough the binder and the whole blank into the oven is less an hour.However, in some cases when I'm gluing up more than one rod I wait until theyare all glued and straightened before I put them in the oven. I think youhave some flexibility with the timing, the oven really just accelerates thedrying time. Its not like you have to get them in the oven a minute aftergluing. Bob Douglas Losey wrote: Thanks Bob, Let me ask another question....do you place the glued blank in your ovenimmediately after gluing and wrapping or do you let it first cure at roomtemperature?.... losey----- Original Message -----From: "Robert S Williams" Cc: "rodmakers" Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 10:48 AMSubject: Re: heat setting URAC I put the glued blank into my heat gun oven for an hour at 175 degreesand then put it in my drying cabinet overnight. Even after heating theblank in the oven I always wait 24 hours before I remove the string andstart sanding. Bob Douglas Losey wrote: Hi all, I'm looking for a little advice...I am gluing up a rod blankusing URAC 185...what would be the optimum time and temperature forheat setting this glue?Thanks,losey from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Jun 21 11:47:06 2001 f5LGl5Z27835 Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm totally convinced Devcon(5 min) is a good product to use for =ferrules. But this subject has sparked some interest for me because we =currently discuss glues on the list and I here alot about delamination =problems.I never could figure out why someone could use a glue with success and =while another uses it with no success.I started looking into this more and more. I called some epoxy =manufactures. I was told that epoxy resins are allbasically the same chemically. (with the exception ofheat set epoxies). I asked them about different brands and if it would =make more sense to use one brand over another. (I was talking to a =chemist, not a sales person)They said it would not make a difference for the type of application I =was using it for.(rodmaking) So I stillWondered why delamination happens. So I ran my own test. Found out that =almost any glue will fail past its shear point. But I was still confused =because it was not likely that all these people pushed their rods past =this point. So the question remained. I looked toward temperature =changes. Here again most of us are pretty conscious of this. The only =thing I could think it might be is that people were heat curing non heat =curing epoxies. Once again not likely, we are all too meticulous about = Ever had two ferrules stick so bad you couldn't pull them apart. When =you laminate the idea is to get all the air out. Otherwise you would not =have to bind. Anyone work in a metal shop? When you try to pick upa piece of thin flat metal that is laying on a another with oil in =between its hard to do. Air lock is part of the reason laminating works. =So if your ruffing yourstrips and glue joints up, your creating micro air pockets. Ruffing =materiel up should only be use for glue joints that cannot have the air =pushed out of them. My strips are planned smooth and I never ruff up =glue joints. All these joints are (i.e. ferrules ,strips) are laminate =joints. When you heat a ferrule up to loosen itup the metal expands (along with softening the glue)and you break the air lock. The glue itself is not the soul factor in =the bonding. You can be as meticulous asyou want to be in preparation ,but if you prep it wrongit won't matter. Preparation is everything ,and type of glue is a small =factor( between Epoxies) I don't mean all glues. Its a common Human =fault, If the ferrule pulls off, it must have been the glue, it could =not have been anything I did. Ha Ha Ha If ferrules are coming off on =you, better to look at these factors :Bad fit(since we can't really bind a ferrule,only the tabs) best to have =a fit that you have to apply pressure to squeeze the air out. Make sure =you have a smooth, clean surface so the glue can flow between the two =surfaces( via capillary attraction). No commercial interest in Devcon =LOL . Ever seen some one glue plastic PVC up and forget to get all the =little burrs off and they don't use the cleaner and use sand paper =instead, then forget to turn it a quarter to get rid of the air. Then =the wonder why it leaked. Just a theoryTony Miller I'm totally convinced Devcon(5 = product to use for ferrules. But this subject has sparked some interest = delamination problems.I never could figure out why someone = success.I started looking into this more and = allbasically the same chemically. (with the= ofheat set epoxies). I asked them about= brands and if it would make more sense to use one brand over another. (I = talking to a chemist, not a sales person)They said it would not make adifference = type of application I was using it for.(rodmaking) So I =stillWondered why delamination happens. = my own test. Found out that almost any glue will fail past its shear = I was still confused because it was not likely that all these people = temperature changes. Here again most of us are pretty conscious of this. = Ever had two ferrules stick so bad you= pull them apart. When you laminate the idea is to get all the air out. = you would not have to bind. Anyone work in a metal shop? When you try to = up = a another with oil in between its hard to do. Air lock is part of the = laminating works. So if your ruffing yourstrips and glue joints up, your creating= pockets. Ruffing materiel up should only be use for glue joints that = up glue joints. All these joints are (i.e. ferrules ,strips) are = joints. When you heat a ferrule up to loosen itup the metal expands (along with = glue)and you break the air lock. The glue = the soul factor in the bonding. You can be as meticulous asyou want to be in preparation ,but if = wrongit won't matter. Preparation is = Its a common Human fault, If the ferrule pulls off, it must have been = Bad fit(since we can't really bind a = the tabs) best to have a fit that you have to apply pressure to squeeze = out. Make sure you have a smooth, clean surface so the glue can flow = two surfaces( via capillary attraction). No commercial interest in = little burrs off and they don't use the cleaner and use sand paper = forget to turn it a quarter to get rid of the air. Then the wonder why = leaked. Just a theoryTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jun 21 11:57:39 2001 f5LGvcZ28414 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:57:41 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:55:04 -0400 Subject: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Any opinions on Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond? The place that has Anchor Bondhassomething else I need and I would rather not pay shipping to 2 places ifAnchor Bond is adequate. Thx..Andy from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jun 21 12:05:08 2001 f5LH57Z28852 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:05:14 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:02:45 -0400 Subject: RE: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Also, if I do still end up going with the Acraglas, do you guys recommendadding atomized metal to the Acraglas? Apparently you can add differentmaterials. According to the Brownells site: Atomized (finely powdered) metals can be added to ACRAGLAS GEL toincreaseboth tensile and compression strength along with increased impactresistance. -----Original Message----- Subject: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Any opinions on Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond? The place that has Anchor Bondhassomething else I need and I would rather not pay shipping to 2 places ifAnchor Bond is adequate. Thx..Andy from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Thu Jun 21 12:27:54 2001 f5LHRrZ29725 Subject: hints for N.C. fishing?/joke? Gentlemen, North Carolina is a mid-July destination for me. Naturally, I'd like to hear the list's wisdom on some fishing spots to try. On my honor as a former gentleman of the south (I am now standing and my right hand is placed over my heart), I promise never to denigrate the delights of Dixie. I expect to enjoy every feature of the business week I spend in Raleigh, but, I'd enjoy it more if I could conveniently fish in the evenings. Is there a nearby pond or lake that you recommend for an evening diversion of brim and bass? I'll bring my float tube. Is there a flyshop nearby that I should check out? A side trip to Boone is also likely. I'm not a fan of fast and deep water; I prefer picturesque surroundings to "trophy-sized" opportunities. Have you any favorites in that area you wish to share? Rude jibe directed at yankees follows:The yankee tourist entered a bar in NawLeans. As he wet his whistle, he complained about how sinful the city was, "Why, there's a hooker on every street corner!" A local patron rejoined, "Ther wuz two, 'till them yankees stahted comin' down and marryin' em."------ -----------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jun 21 13:18:41 2001 f5LIIeZ01950 Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Tony Adhesives are fickle. I have had to catastrophicdelaminations with URAC, and refuse to even look at it anymore, but I see a number of first rate rod makers using it,including I think, Bob Nunley. I have seen a delaminationof resorcinol, although I personally have not had anyproblems, (One of my favorites) I have seen a adelamination with SIG Epoxy and one with Rod builders epoxy,but never any with Epon heat setting epoxy. I have not seenany failures with Titebond II. I have had ferrule failureswith every epoxy I have used, and I can assure you I payattention to the fitting and preparation of my ferrules. Ihave never had a failure with Urethane Bond. It is my ownunsubstantiated opinion that epoxies are not suitable asferrule cement since they dry to had and temperature changedifferentials between metal and wood will break the bond,despite roughing or not roughingRalph P. S. I might add that devcon has given me more troublethan any other. To each his own I guess if you are using itsuccessfully. from jvswan@earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 13:39:53 2001 f5LIdqZ03504 (63.225.233.56) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Hi Ralph, Considering your opinion means a lot to many of us, are you going to tell uswhat you use to cement the ferrules? Have you been using resorcinol for your strips? Or Epon? Jason On 6/21/01 12:08 PM, "Ralph W Moon" wrote: Tony Adhesives are fickle. I have had to catastrophicdelaminations with URAC, and refuse to even look at it anymore, but I see a number of first rate rod makers using it,including I think, Bob Nunley. I have seen a delaminationof resorcinol, although I personally have not had anyproblems, (One of my favorites) I have seen a adelamination with SIG Epoxy and one with Rod builders epoxy,but never any with Epon heat setting epoxy. I have not seenany failures with Titebond II. I have had ferrule failureswith every epoxy I have used, and I can assure you I payattention to the fitting and preparation of my ferrules. Ihave never had a failure with Urethane Bond. It is my ownunsubstantiated opinion that epoxies are not suitable asferrule cement since they dry to had and temperature changedifferentials between metal and wood will break the bond,despite roughing or not roughingRalph P. S. I might add that devcon has given me more troublethan any other. To each his own I guess if you are using itsuccessfully. from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Jun 21 13:41:35 2001 f5LIfZZ03705 Subject: Re:Use of Devcon/now Urethane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Ralph are you referring to tight bond 2I picked a dried piece off my bottle andit is very flexible. It even stretches. I would imagine itwould serve the same purpose as epoxy with a little more flexibility. =I'll have to try it. Is that the kind you use? I use this on my Grips = Tony Miller Ralph are you referring to tight 2 andit is very flexible. It even stretches. = imagine itwould serve the same purpose asepoxy = on my bottle. It is waterproof however. TonyMiller from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Jun 21 14:12:10 2001 f5LJC9Z05189 Subject: Re:Use of Devcon/now Urethane Is Titebond II waterPROOF or simply water resistant?J. SniderAt 02:39 PM 06/21/2001 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: Ralph are you referring to tight bond 2I picked a dried piece off my bottle andit is very flexible. It even stretches. I would imagine itwould serve the same purpose as epoxy with a little more flexibility. I'llhave to try it. Is that the kind you use? I use this on my Grips for aflexible bond ,but is says nothing about metal on my bottle. It is waterproofhowever. Tony Miller from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Thu Jun 21 14:47:56 2001 f5LJlsZ06393 MAA10730; Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Ralph,As I am ready to glue up my first blank you're response to Tony re: URACdelaminations has not exactly inspired a great deal of confidence. The threebooks which amount to my apprenticeship in rodmaking do not mention SIG,Epon, or Titebond II, could you give me more info on these adhesives...? thanks,losey----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Tony Adhesives are fickle. I have had to catastrophicdelaminations with URAC, and refuse to even look at it anymore, but I see a number of first rate rod makers using it,including I think, Bob Nunley. I have seen a delaminationof resorcinol, although I personally have not had anyproblems, (One of my favorites) I have seen a adelamination with SIG Epoxy and one with Rod builders epoxy,but never any with Epon heat setting epoxy. I have not seenany failures with Titebond II. I have had ferrule failureswith every epoxy I have used, and I can assure you I payattention to the fitting and preparation of my ferrules. Ihave never had a failure with Urethane Bond. It is my ownunsubstantiated opinion that epoxies are not suitable asferrule cement since they dry to had and temperature changedifferentials between metal and wood will break the bond,despite roughing or not roughingRalph P. S. I might add that devcon has given me more troublethan any other. To each his own I guess if you are using itsuccessfully. from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Jun 21 14:48:47 2001 f5LJmiZ06506 Subject: Called Tightbond This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I called the tight bond company and told them some of the applications I = 1. I asked if tight bond was stronger(having higher shear strength) for = 2. I asked if tight bond was recommended for metal to bamboo. Answer No = 3. I asked if it could be used for bamboo to bamboo Answer Yes =(recommended tightbond PU) not Tightbond 2 (he said both would work but =PU stronger)also both good for cork/wood to bamboo.He also told me that tightbond has a low shock resistance. He said if =you hit it against something it comes apart easily. He did however think =tight bond was more flexible than epoxy.1-800-347-GLUE (tightbond) call for yourself,don't take my word on it.Your right Jerry it is water resistant not water proof. My mistake.Tony Miller I called the tight bondcompany = them some of the applications I was considering using their glue for. = what they said. = 2. I asked if tight bond was = 3. I asked if it could be used= to bamboo Answer Yes (recommended tightbond PU) not Tightbond 2 (he said= would work but PU stronger)also both good for cork/wood to =bamboo.He also told me that = low shock resistance. He said if you hit it against something it comes = epoxy.1-800-347-GLUE (tightbond)call = not water proof. My mistake.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jun 21 15:03:56 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f5LK3tZ07271 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Called Tightbond This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. A search of the archives will show that there have been extensivediscussions of various glues in the last 2 or 3 years on the list. TitebondII, when compared spec-to-spec with other glues, does not sound great, but anumber of prolific rod makers have used it for years without anyproblems.Others feel differently. It's tough to sort it all out, and the onlythingI've been able to conclude (as an amateur trying to make sense of it all) isthat any of the common rodmaking glues can be used successfully, so longasone attends carefully to mixing instructions, temperature, surfacepreparations, curing practices, etc. Just the opinion of one listobserver.... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Called Tightbond I called the tight bond company and told them some of the applications I wasconsidering using their glue for. this is what they said. 1. I asked if tight bond was stronger(having higher shear strength) forlaminating than epoxy? Answer No 2. I asked if tight bond was recommended for metal to bamboo. Answer No(only porous to porous joints) 3. I asked if it could be used for bamboo to bamboo Answer Yes(recommendedtightbond PU) not Tightbond 2 (he said both would work but PU stronger)alsoboth good for cork/wood to bamboo.He also told me that tightbond has a low shock resistance. He said if youhit it against something it comes apart easily. He did however think tightbond was more flexible than epoxy.1-800-347-GLUE (tightbond) call for yourself,don't take my word on it.Your right Jerry it is water resistant not water proof. My mistake.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html A search of the archives will show that there have been extensive discussionsof various glues in the last 2 or 3 years on the list. Titebond II, when compared spec-to-spec with other glues, does not sound great, but a number of prolific rod makers have used it for years without any problems. Others feeldifferently. It's tough to sort it all out, and the only thing I've been able to conclude (as an amateur trying to make sense of it all) is that any of the commonrodmaking glues can be used successfully, so long as one attends carefully to mixing instructions, temperature, surface preparations, curing practices, etc. Justthe opinion of one list observer.... Barry -----Original Message-----From: Tony Miller 2:46 Called TightbondI called the tight bond companyand told them some of the applications I was considering using their glue for. this is what they said. Answer No 2. I asked if tight bond wasrecommended 3. I asked if it could be used forbamboo to bamboo Answer Yes (recommended tightbond PU) not Tightbond 2 (hesaid both would work but PU stronger)also both good for cork/wood to bamboo.He also told me that low shock resistance. He said if you hit it against something it comes apart easily. He did however think tight bond was more flexible than epoxy.1-800- 347-GLUE (tightbond) call resistant not water proof. My mistake.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 15:15:12 2001 f5LKFBZ07854 Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:15:02 -0700 Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:15:02 GMT Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy FILETIME=[DA52BF90:01C0FA8E] I have used URAC for about 600 rods and have not had a delam. All but about 75 of those have been air cured. The 75 were heat set. I still heat set the glue if I need a blank done in a hurry otherwise I let it air cure(70*+) for 36 hours. I tried epoxy on the ferrules and had some failures with both 5min and 2ton and the Garrison mix that is in his book. Some failures not being acceptable I now use ferrule cement and a pin. J. Zimney has written that URAC needs some moisture in the cane to set up properly and I havewondered if the current trend toward heated and chemical dry boxes that attempt to keep the cane absolutely dry might have something to do with it. Wayne C. being the initial proponent of the dry boxes I note that he uses epoxy that would not be affected by the ultra dry cane. Perhaps an unhappy mixing of methods? The ferrule problem with epoxy has me baffled as I know somethat have had no problem with it but it gave me nothing but grief. I have been accused of not preparing the ferrules properly but I can assue you they were prepped to list standards.A.J. From: "Douglas Losey" CC: Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min EpoxyDate: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:46:48 -0400 Ralph,As I am ready to glue up my first blank you're response to Tony re: URACdelaminations has not exactly inspired a great deal of confidence. The threebooks which amount to my apprenticeship in rodmaking do not mention SIG,Epon, or Titebond II, could you give me more info on these adhesives...? thanks,losey----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph W Moon" Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 2:08 PMSubject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Tony Adhesives are fickle. I have had to catastrophicdelaminations with URAC, and refuse to even look at it anymore, but I see a number of first rate rod makers using it,including I think, Bob Nunley. I have seen a delaminationof resorcinol, although I personally have not had anyproblems, (One of my favorites) I have seen a adelamination with SIG Epoxy and one with Rod builders epoxy,but never any with Epon heat setting epoxy. I have not seenany failures with Titebond II. I have had ferrule failureswith every epoxy I have used, and I can assure you I payattention to the fitting and preparation of my ferrules. Ihave never had a failure with Urethane Bond. It is my ownunsubstantiated opinion that epoxies are not suitable asferrule cement since they dry to had and temperature changedifferentials between metal and wood will break the bond,despite roughing or not roughingRalph P. S. I might add that devcon has given me more troublethan any other. To each his own I guess if you are using itsuccessfully. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jun 21 17:03:19 2001 f5LM3IZ10943 Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy I have been using Urac for 12 years and any problem I have seen withdelaminations have been because of the age of the glue in the can. Eventhough after 6 months the glue is still liguid, when compared to a freshcan the 6 month old stuff is considerably thicker. It is best not to useglue older than 6 months unless stored in a freezer. And I don't thinkit's a good idea to store it in a freezer that stores your food. Marty Ralph W Moon wrote: Tony Adhesives are fickle. I have had to catastrophicdelaminations with URAC, and refuse to even look at it anymore, but I see a number of first rate rod makers using it,including I think, Bob Nunley. I have seen a delaminationof resorcinol, although I personally have not had anyproblems, (One of my favorites) I have seen a adelamination with SIG Epoxy and one with Rod builders epoxy,but never any with Epon heat setting epoxy. I have not seenany failures with Titebond II. I have had ferrule failureswith every epoxy I have used, and I can assure you I payattention to the fitting and preparation of my ferrules. Ihave never had a failure with Urethane Bond. It is my ownunsubstantiated opinion that epoxies are not suitable asferrule cement since they dry to had and temperature changedifferentials between metal and wood will break the bond,despite roughing or not roughingRalph P. S. I might add that devcon has given me more troublethan any other. To each his own I guess if you are using itsuccessfully. from rmoon@ida.net Thu Jun 21 17:19:24 2001 f5LMJOZ11415 Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Marty, I have been told that by others, and I have no doubt it is true,but I still had two rods glued with URAC, the day after I got the stuff inthe mail and on a nice warm sunny summer day, and both delaminatedcompletely with about the second cast. Now if I cannot depend on gettingfresh material from the supplier and, if I have to throw 80% out because Idon't build rods fast enough I am double damned if I think it is any good.I know that a lot of rod makers swear by it, but I assure you I wouldn't usethe stuff if it were free and I was paid $100 for every rod I glued. It no****** good.Ralph none wrote: I have been using Urac for 12 years and any problem I have seen withdelaminations have been because of the age of the glue in the can. Eventhough after 6 months the glue is still liguid, when compared to a freshcan the 6 month old stuff is considerably thicker. It is best not to useglue older than 6 months unless stored in a freezer. And I don't thinkit's a good idea to store it in a freezer that stores your food. Marty Ralph W Moon wrote: Tony Adhesives are fickle. I have had to catastrophicdelaminations with URAC, and refuse to even look at it anymore, but I see a number of first rate rod makers using it,including I think, Bob Nunley. I have seen a delaminationof resorcinol, although I personally have not had anyproblems, (One of my favorites) I have seen a adelamination with SIG Epoxy and one with Rod builders epoxy,but never any with Epon heat setting epoxy. I have not seenany failures with Titebond II. I have had ferrule failureswith every epoxy I have used, and I can assure you I payattention to the fitting and preparation of my ferrules. Ihave never had a failure with Urethane Bond. It is my ownunsubstantiated opinion that epoxies are not suitable asferrule cement since they dry to had and temperature changedifferentials between metal and wood will break the bond,despite roughing or not roughingRalph P. S. I might add that devcon has given me more troublethan any other. To each his own I guess if you are using itsuccessfully. from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Thu Jun 21 17:44:57 2001 f5LMiuZ11976 pri.pacificare.com 2001 22:46:59 UT (Tumbleweed ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:44:49 -0700 Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy I had the same problem also. The only glue I have had fail is URAC. Tiptotally fell apart at the glue lines. The glue was bought off the shelf, noexpiration date anywhere on the container. Now if the shelf life of URAC isso important why isn't an expiration date printed on the container?Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 3:20 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Marty, I have been told that by others, and I have no doubt it is true,but I still had two rods glued with URAC, the day after I got the stuff inthe mail and on a nice warm sunny summer day, and both delaminatedcompletely with about the second cast. Now if I cannot depend on gettingfresh material from the supplier and, if I have to throw 80% out because Idon't build rods fast enough I am double damned if I think it is anygood.I know that a lot of rod makers swear by it, but I assure you I wouldn'tusethe stuff if it were free and I was paid $100 for every rod I glued. Itno****** good.Ralph none wrote: I have been using Urac for 12 years and any problem I have seen withdelaminations have been because of the age of the glue in the can. Eventhough after 6 months the glue is still liguid, when compared to a freshcan the 6 month old stuff is considerably thicker. It is best not to useglue older than 6 months unless stored in a freezer. And I don't thinkit's a good idea to store it in a freezer that stores your food. Marty Ralph W Moon wrote: Tony Adhesives are fickle. I have had to catastrophicdelaminations with URAC, and refuse to even look at it anymore, but I see a number of first rate rod makers using it,including I think, Bob Nunley. I have seen a delaminationof resorcinol, although I personally have not had anyproblems, (One of my favorites) I have seen a adelamination with SIG Epoxy and one with Rod builders epoxy,but never any with Epon heat setting epoxy. I have not seenany failures with Titebond II. I have had ferrule failureswith every epoxy I have used, and I can assure you I payattention to the fitting and preparation of my ferrules. Ihave never had a failure with Urethane Bond. It is my ownunsubstantiated opinion that epoxies are not suitable asferrule cement since they dry to had and temperature changedifferentials between metal and wood will break the bond,despite roughing or not roughingRalph P. S. I might add that devcon has given me more troublethan any other. To each his own I guess if you are using itsuccessfully. from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Jun 21 18:33:04 2001 f5LNX2Z12652 Subject: Re:Epoxy This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Remember that we all do not bind our rods the same way, and we don't =plane the cane the same way , and we don't even apply the glue the same =way ,or cure the glue the same way. These are all factors which could =change the out come.It's just like when my wife keeps rambling onabout here knee's and I've tuned here outOuch! she just hit me and said "she's talking about her needs, not her =knee's."Tony Miller Remember that we all do not= the same way, and we don't plane the cane the same way , and we don't = It's just like when my wife = onabout here knee's and I've = outOuch! she just hit me and said= talking about her needs, not her knee's."Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Jun 21 19:22:40 2001 f5M0MdZ13370 9AFAFBEF9 Subject: Glue I have used a canadian product, Casco CRH5 resin glue on the last 60 or 70rods. None have delaminated to the best of my knowledge. According to theCasco technician, CRH5 is much like Borden's L100. or URAC 185 except thatCRH5 cures to an undetectable clear glue line. The technician also saidthat normal production life is about 3 months at 70 degrees F. and thatshelf life doubles for every 10 degree drop in temperature, so at 40 degreesits good for two years. If the resin starts to get "lumpy" then its time toget rid of it. Unfortunately, CRH5 is only sold in large quantities. I getmine from an architectural plywood manufacturer where it is used to glueveneer to solid cores. The veneer panels are held under pressure by heatedplattens at 250 degrees for 4 minutes and are then ready for shipping. Iplace my glued and bound rod sections in an oven heated to 200 degrees F.and leave oven and sections to cool down to room temperature, about anhour.After one hour you can safely remove the string , scrape and sand. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 19:23:48 2001 f5M0NlZ13481 Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:23:38 -0700 Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:23:37 GMT Subject: Nashville rodmakers? FILETIME=[94F82660:01C0FAB1] Just back from Montana-thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and my appologies to Jim in Kalispel as I only got about 15 minutes of fishing time in while I was there. Jim, I will get back there again and will make a point to get some fihsing time in with you. Anyway, looks like I am off to Nashville next month and was wondering if it worth even bringing a rod with me, or if there are any list members from there. ok, back to glue discussion.... Rob Clarke _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from martinj@aa.net Thu Jun 21 21:46:55 2001 f5M2ksZ14932 Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:46:52 -0700 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades do you think you could even burnish carbide? I think it might be a bit toohard or brittle. I do know you can't get it as sharp as regular steel. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Which brings a question to my mind.....I wonder what would happen if I tried burnishing the edges of the cutterinserts?Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:44 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades actually the cutting edge on a scraper is a micro plane blade and cutsthrough the fibers, if it's blunt then it tears through the fiber and doesnot leave a smooth surface. Scrapers edges are rolled with a burnished andif you magnify them you will see that it is a wedge, like a plane blade,that is pushed through the fibers. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Actually it's not. The way the cutter inserts are configured, thecuttingaction is more like scraping than cutting. One of the reasons chips atthenodes aren't a problem. Also, the effort to push the planing unitthrough acut is greater than taking a cut with a hand plane.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 6:04 AM 'AdamVigil'Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades a handmill is hand planing, the difference is that the plane has twoblades and cuts both sides at one pass. Twice as therapeutic! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Jun 21 23:30:42 2001 f5M4UfZ16473 VAA06957; Subject: Re: undersized ferrules Great Idea, this one is going into file for future reference. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fwd: undersized ferrules k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:I posted this a year or two ago but for the new list members: If you find you have over sanded and have an undersized male ferrule, youmight try this. Go to an aquarium store and purchase a small bag ofreptile/amphibian sand. It's the very fine sand. Now you need a steel rodjust smaller in diameter than the inside of the male ferrule. Make sureboth ends of the steel rod are square and flat on the end. You only need apiece about 2 or 3 inches long. Now fill the ferrule about 2/3 with thefine sand; enough to fill the section that will fit inside the female. Nowplace the closed end of the ferrule on a solid surface. An oak block shouldwork well. Place the rod into the ferrule and seat it on the sand. Now tapthe rod with a small hammer. Gently, a lot of small "pecks" is better thanone big "whack". The sand spreads the force of the hammer and causes it toswell. Hit it to hard and you can deform the ferrule but if you are gentle,you can bring it to just the right diameter. Regards, Onis k5vkq@ix.netcom.com from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Jun 22 08:16:30 2001 f5MDGTZ21030 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:16:31 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:13:58 -0400 Subject: RE: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Sorry for the persistence, but I just wanted to ask again if anyone has usedAnchor Bond for ferrules, and how it compares to Acraglas. Anotherquestionis if I use Acraglas, should I use any additives (atomized metals forinstance)? Oh, ok, one more question...how about using Epon (which I alreadyhave) for ferrules? Thanks, Andy -----Original Message----- Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: RE: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Also, if I do still end up going with the Acraglas, do you guys recommendadding atomized metal to the Acraglas? Apparently you can add differentmaterials. According to the Brownells site: Atomized (finely powdered) metals can be added to ACRAGLAS GEL toincreaseboth tensile and compression strength along with increased impactresistance. -----Original Message----- Subject: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Any opinions on Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond? The place that has Anchor Bondhassomething else I need and I would rather not pay shipping to 2 places ifAnchor Bond is adequate. Thx..Andy from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Jun 22 08:48:51 2001 f5MDmoZ23029 Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades Howdy all, You will not be able to "burnish" a carbide insert, like you would be ableto do with a steel blade. Also carbidecomes in so many grades and substratesthat one would have to do some researchon which of the current grades wouldbe most suited for your needs. Thereis a German firm that manufacturescarbide inserts for wood working applications, and yes they can get their edges as keen as any razor or other cutter I have ever seen.Also as a general rule Tin coated insertsare duller then an uncoated inserts.The edge must be broke for the Tin to stick to the edge. Ticn coated insertscan be resharpened after the coating processso the edge is sharper then a Tin coated insertand stronger then a uncoated insert. laterBrad -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Old Plane Blades do you think you could even burnish carbide? I think it might be a bit toohard or brittle. I do know you can't get it as sharp as regular steel. Martin Jensen from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 09:18:15 2001 f5MEIEZ24450 HAA02453 Subject: impregnating This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Question: Has thompson water seal been tried for impregnation? Are their any = Second question: Cane can be impregnated with pressure only or does a vacuum have to be =pulled on it first? Adam Question: Has thompson water seal been tried impregnation? Are their any negative effects in using it on cane? = Second question: Cane can be impregnated with pressure= a vacuum have to be pulled on it first? Adam from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Jun 22 09:33:24 2001 f5MEXNZ25134 KAA24746; Subject: Re: impregnating As far as I know, you can do it either way. I use pressure but have beenintending to also use a vacuum (whenever I get a-round-tuit ie. make avacuum pump. REgards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Cane can be impregnated with pressure only or does a vacuum have to be pulled on it first? from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Fri Jun 22 10:24:15 2001 f5MFOEZ27020 pri.pacificare.com 2001 15:26:17 UT (Tumbleweed ; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:22:21 -0700 Subject: RE: impregnating This is where I have had some experience, having once worked in a petroleumtesting lab where we used to do rock saturation tests. You will get the mostcomplete saturation by putting your material under a vacuum first,introducing your saturant while still under a vacuum, releasing the vacuumslowly, then putting it under pressure. If you try to saturate by onlyapplying pressure, the air inside compresses while under pressure, but whenthe pressure is released the air expands again pushing the saturant backout. This may not be a bad thing for bamboo, considering that weight is afactor also.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 7:33 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: impregnating As far as I know, you can do it either way. I use pressure but have beenintending to also use a vacuum (whenever I get a-round-tuit ie. make avacuum pump. REgards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Cane can be impregnated with pressure only or does a vacuum have to be pulled on it first? from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Jun 22 11:02:27 2001 f5MG2RZ28814 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:02:27 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:59:52 -0400 Subject: RE: undersized ferrules Very creative! Got any ideas for when the male is already glued on? I don'twant to deform the female at all since the other male is fine, so I don'twant to crimp the female or anything like that. A very thin coating ofsomething on the male that dries really hard might do it...but I haven'tfound the right stuff yet. I tried rustoleum and then lightly sanded it andI no longer have a tick in the ferrule, but I think this is verytemporary...I know, I could just replace the male with the problem... Andy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: undersized ferrules Great Idea, this one is going into file for future reference. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fwd: undersized ferrules k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:I posted this a year or two ago but for the new list members: If you find you have over sanded and have an undersized male ferrule, youmight try this. Go to an aquarium store and purchase a small bag ofreptile/amphibian sand. It's the very fine sand. Now you need a steel rodjust smaller in diameter than the inside of the male ferrule. Make sureboth ends of the steel rod are square and flat on the end. You only need apiece about 2 or 3 inches long. Now fill the ferrule about 2/3 with thefine sand; enough to fill the section that will fit inside the female. Nowplace the closed end of the ferrule on a solid surface. An oak block shouldwork well. Place the rod into the ferrule and seat it on the sand. Now tapthe rod with a small hammer. Gently, a lot of small "pecks" is better thanone big "whack". The sand spreads the force of the hammer and causes it toswell. Hit it to hard and you can deform the ferrule but if you are gentle,you can bring it to just the right diameter. Regards, Onis k5vkq@ix.netcom.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 11:20:49 2001 f5MGKmZ00107 JAA23947 Subject: impregnating cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I know this topic has been tossed around before but I would like some =clarification. Is it necessary to draw a vacuum on the cane to =impregnate it successfully? Can a high pressure alone be used instead =(up to 800psi)? I want to know if I need to hunt down a vacuum or if I =can just use compressed air from a scuba tank? Just wondering... Adam = vacuum on the cane to impregnate it successfully? Can a high pressure = used instead (up to 800psi)? I want to know if I need to hunt down a = wondering... Adam from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 11:26:40 2001 f5MGQdZ00639 JAA22126; Subject: Re: impregnating cane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Sorry for this, I sent this several days ago and it just showed up now. I dont know why Adam Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 5:14 PMSubject: impregnating cane I know this topic has been tossed around before but I would like some =clarification. Is it necessary to draw a vacuum on the cane to =impregnate it successfully? Can a high pressure alone be used instead =(up to 800psi)? I want to know if I need to hunt down a vacuum or if I =can just use compressed air from a scuba tank? Just wondering... Adam Sorry for this, I sent this several days ago and it = now. I dont know why Adam ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 =5:14 PMSubject: impregnating =cane vacuum on the cane to impregnate it successfully? Can a high pressure = used instead (up to 800psi)? I want to know if I need to hunt down a = wondering... Adam from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Fri Jun 22 11:48:50 2001 f5MGmnZ01756 pri.pacificare.com 2001 16:50:52 UT (Tumbleweed ; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:48:00 -0700 Subject: RE: impregnating cane I have successfully impregnated bamboo with polyurethane varnish with justavacuum, but my vacuum pump is a laboratory pump that supposedly draws a1micron vacuum - thats near absolute for any practical purposes. There areother factors in saturating any porous medium. Capillary action, which willbe a big factor with bamboo, and wetting - wether the bamboo is oil or waterwet, and what the base of your impregnation fluid is. If your bamboo isabsolutely dry (internally as well as externally) it's wetting propertieswill be neutral - that is whatever the fluid is introduced will get wickedin - capillary action. If there is any water left inside the bamboo (it grewusing water), an oil based impregnation fluid will be repelled. The question I have though, is why would we want to impregnate a bamboorod?It adds a lot of weight to the rod and affects it's casting characteristics-makes it slower.Darryl from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Fri Jun 22 11:58:22 2001 f5MGwLZ02267 Subject: RE: impregnating cane At 9:46 AM -0700 on 6/22/01, Hayashida Darryl wrote about RE:impregnating cane I have successfully impregnated bamboo with polyurethane varnish with justavacuum, but my vacuum pump is a laboratory pump that supposedly drawsa 1micron vacuum - thats near absolute for any practical purposes. There areother factors in saturating any porous medium. Capillary action, which willbe a big factor with bamboo, and wetting - wether the bamboo is oil orwaterwet, and what the base of your impregnation fluid is. If your bamboo isabsolutely dry (internally as well as externally) it's wetting propertieswill be neutral - that is whatever the fluid is introduced will get wickedin - capillary action. If there is any water left inside the bamboo (it grewusing water), an oil based impregnation fluid will be repelled. The question I have though, is why would we want to impregnate a bamboorod?It adds a lot of weight to the rod and affects it's casting characteristics-makes it slower.Darryl Darryl: how about impregnating with just a small amount of pressure inch or so impregnated, but not the entire porous core of the rod? If sufficient experimentation were done to determine the controlled amount of time/pressure needed, would something like this (just the outer .002) affect the casting action or weight all that much? Would it help protect the rod from moisture better than just dipping or brushing on the varnish? Claude from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Fri Jun 22 12:05:35 2001 f5MH5YZ02645 pri.pacificare.com 2001 17:07:37 UT (Tumbleweed ; Fri, 22 Jun 2001 10:05:28 -0700 Subject: RE: impregnating cane Well...If you think about it, that's probably what is happening when you dipvarnish rods. People use various ways to reduce the viscosity of the varnish- heat or thinners. When they do that the varnish penetrates into thebambooat least a little bit.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: impregnating cane At 9:46 AM -0700 on 6/22/01, Hayashida Darryl wrote about RE:impregnatingcane I have successfully impregnated bamboo with polyurethane varnish withjust avacuum, but my vacuum pump is a laboratory pump that supposedlydraws a 1micron vacuum - thats near absolute for any practical purposes. Thereareother factors in saturating any porous medium. Capillary action, whichwillbe a big factor with bamboo, and wetting - wether the bamboo is oil orwaterwet, and what the base of your impregnation fluid is. If your bamboo isabsolutely dry (internally as well as externally) it's wettingpropertieswill be neutral - that is whatever the fluid is introduced will getwickedin - capillary action. If there is any water left inside the bamboo (itgrewusing water), an oil based impregnation fluid will be repelled. The question I have though, is why would we want to impregnate a bamboorod?It adds a lot of weight to the rod and affects it's castingcharacteristics-makes it slower.Darryl Darryl: how about impregnating with just a small amount of pressure inch or so impregnated, but not the entire porous core of the rod? If sufficient experimentation were done to determine the controlled amount of time/pressure needed, would something like this (just the outer .002) affect the casting action or weight all that much? Would it help protect the rod from moisture better than just dipping or brushing on the varnish? Claude from beadman@mac.com Fri Jun 22 12:21:50 2001 f5MHLnZ03109 Subject: RE: impregnating cane At 10:03 AM -0700 on 6/22/01, Hayashida Darryl wrote about RE: impregnating cane Well...If you think about it, that's probably what is happening when you dipvarnish rods. People use various ways to reduce the viscosity of thevarnish- heat or thinners. When they do that the varnish penetrates into thebambooat least a little bit.Darryl Good point - I hadn't thought of it in that respect. Based on that then, several thinned coats to allow soaking into the near-surface pores would be much better than a single unthinned coat for a long-term moisture barrier...which is why a lot of you dip several times... Thanks,Claude from andy@w-link.net Fri Jun 22 13:16:21 2001 f5MIGKZ04684 Subject: A Bamboo Movie (solicitation) Gentlemen, Please pardon the post here but I felt this an appropriate place for mymessage. I've been working on producing a documentary movie which shows thetransition of a bamboo culm from a living plant into a finished flyrod.This has been a year long process up to now. As we are moving toward ourpotential filming dates, we've lost two of our main financial supporters. Ihave an excellent group of people involved here and we would love tocomplete this project. This is not a movie about building a bamboo flyrodbut the story of transformation; how the principle of a commodity farm cropis, through the hands of a dozen impassioned players, recreated and utilizedas a mystical piece of art. Anyone interested in investing in this project, please contact me directly Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Broker206.463.1273www.bamboobroker.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Jun 22 13:51:28 2001 Subject: RE: undersized ferrules I haven't tried this but it is non destructive so... If the fit is nearly there(sounds like it may be), try dissolving some shaved carnuba wax in somenaptha (lighter fluis). paint a little on the ferrule and let it dry. You mightadd a little beeswax if the carnuba wax will not stick. You'll have to repreatit regularly but again, it is non destructive. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote:Very creative! Got any ideas for when the male is already glued on? I don'twant to deform the female at all since the other male is fine, so I don'twant to crimp the female or anything like that. A very thin coating ofsomething on the male that dries really hard might do it...but I haven'tfound the right stuff yet. I tried rustoleum and then lightly sanded it andI no longer have a tick in the ferrule, but I think this is verytemporary...I know, I could just replace the male with the problem... Andy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: undersized ferrules Great Idea, this one is going into file for future reference. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fwd: undersized ferrules k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:I posted this a year or two ago but for the new list members: If you find you have over sanded and have an undersized male ferrule, youmight try this. Go to an aquarium store and purchase a small bag ofreptile/amphibian sand. It's the very fine sand. Now you need a steel rodjust smaller in diameter than the inside of the male ferrule. Make sureboth ends of the steel rod are square and flat on the end. You only need apiece about 2 or 3 inches long. Now fill the ferrule about 2/3 with thefine sand; enough to fill the section that will fit inside the female. Nowplace the closed end of the ferrule on a solid surface. An oak block shouldwork well. Place the rod into the ferrule and seat it on the sand. Now tapthe rod with a small hammer. Gently, a lot of small "pecks" is better thanone big "whack". The sand spreads the force of the hammer and causes it toswell. Hit it to hard and you can deform the ferrule but if you are gentle,you can bring it to just the right diameter. Regards, Onis k5vkq@ix.netcom.com from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Jun 22 14:14:18 2001 f5MJEHZ06632 Subject: Re: use of Devcon 5 minute epoxy, etc. Several of you have recently discussed the use of Devcon epoxy for gluingferrules. I believe that Chris Bogart discussed/recommended using Devcon5minute epoxy a few years ago(a search through the archives supportsthis).Perhaps he could enlighten us as to his success/failure with the latterover this period of time. I have a dozen or so early rods ferruled with thelatter and they have held up fine for the past 4-5 years or so. These rodsare fished a good 250 days a year (if not more), although I recentlychanged to Pliobond. Chris, are you out there?Jerry Snider Hi Jerry and All, First it was Reid's Ferruleflex (anyone remember Reid's?) and since thenWeldwood flammable contact cement which seems a bit tougher thanPliobond seems a good choice since it remains flexible which is a property we arelooking for. Bill PS It also works great for attaching new felt soles. from vfish@vFish.net Fri Jun 22 14:15:53 2001 f5MJFqZ06797 Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:15:51 -0500 Subject: RE: Milward book This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Bob, Your book has been shipped yesterday as well as everyone else who orderedthem from me. (I've only replied on list since Bob posted on list) I've read about 60 pages so far... Very technical so far... many interestingconclusions so far... Darrellwww.vfish.net/Milward-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:06 PM Subject: Milward book Just wondered if anyone has seen the book yet? I am very excited to getmine, and I am awaiting its arrival. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 Bob, from me. only replied on list since Bob posted on list) conclusions so far... Darrellwww.vfish.net/Milward MaulucciSent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:06 bookJust wondered if anyone has seen the book = I am very excited to get mine, and I am awaiting its =arrival. from iank@ts.co.nz Fri Jun 22 14:31:17 2001 f5MJVFZ07393 Sat, 23 Jun 2001 07:28:23 +1200 Subject: Re: impregnating cane My experience is related to treating very large timber beams, in a chamber30 metres long and 3 metres in diameter, for protection against white antsetc. These professional treatment plant use the vacuum, then flood, thenpressure, arrangement. These plants work on the theory of providing a thin skin penetration andconsider any penetration beyond about 1/4 inch an expensive waste ofvaluable chemical. The same principal should apply to cane rods, a thinlayer of penetration is all that is required, sort of varnish layer insidethe rod rather then outside. Moisture content is very important for this technique. Too much moistureandit inhibits the vacuum process , too little and you start to get " cellfailures" in the timber. You need to work between 10 and 14% moisturecontent.That may not apply to a more dense timber ( grass) like bamboo . Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: impregnating cane At 10:03 AM -0700 on 6/22/01, Hayashida Darryl wrote about RE:impregnating cane Well...If you think about it, that's probably what is happening when you dipvarnish rods. People use various ways to reduce the viscosity of thevarnish- heat or thinners. When they do that the varnish penetrates into thebambooat least a little bit.Darryl Good point - I hadn't thought of it in that respect. Based on thatthen, several thinned coats to allow soaking into the near-surfacepores would be much better than a single unthinned coat for along-term moisture barrier...which is why a lot of you dip severaltimes... Thanks,Claude from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Jun 22 14:39:37 2001 f5MJdaZ07827 Subject: Impregnation To the List,Aside from the aspects dealt with by Doctor Ruth, I seem to recall that inthe early days of cane rod impregnation, bakelite was used for the purposesof eliminating the need for varnish, but mainly to permit milling thefinished blanks to final dimensions, power fibers bedamned. It made onetough rod, but indeed heavy and slow. And relatively low cost. Can any oneconfirm this? Bill from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Jun 22 15:39:00 2001 f5MKd0Z09557 Subject: Re: Impregnation According to the book that Dick Spurr and Jordna's wife did on Wes Jordan, there is a statement by Wes saying the Orvis bakelite impregnation adds 9% weight to the rod. According to the Garrison book, a coat of polyurethane adds 15 grains of weight (0.031 oz.). (This was a blanket statement without regard to rod size.) Assuming you start with cane that weighs 2 oz, impregnation would add 0.18 oz. and varnishing with 3 coats would add 0.09 oz. If all of this is true, that doesn't seem like a lot of extra weight on a finished rod. I have no idea about the power fiber milling/sanding. And my Orivs rods are anything but slow -- they tend to be on the fast side. --Rich from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Jun 22 16:36:54 2001 f5MLarZ11255 Subject: Re: undersized ferrules You can deform the male in a 3 jaw chuck. I have never done it but haveheard ofa few guys doing it. By slightly crimping in the male at the jaw points itpushes out slightly in between the jaw points. As always mark the points ofcontact and go slowly. Marty Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Very creative! Got any ideas for when the male is already glued on? I don'twant to deform the female at all since the other male is fine, so I don'twant to crimp the female or anything like that. A very thin coating ofsomething on the male that dries really hard might do it...but I haven'tfound the right stuff yet. I tried rustoleum and then lightly sanded it andI no longer have a tick in the ferrule, but I think this is verytemporary...I know, I could just replace the male with the problem... Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:35 AM Subject: Re: undersized ferrules Great Idea, this one is going into file for future reference. Adam----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 7:47 AMSubject: Fwd: undersized ferrules k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:I posted this a year or two ago but for the new list members: If you find you have over sanded and have an undersized male ferrule,youmight try this. Go to an aquarium store and purchase a small bag ofreptile/amphibian sand. It's the very fine sand. Now you need a steel rodjust smaller in diameter than the inside of the male ferrule. Make sureboth ends of the steel rod are square and flat on the end. You only need apiece about 2 or 3 inches long. Now fill the ferrule about 2/3 with thefine sand; enough to fill the section that will fit inside the female. Nowplace the closed end of the ferrule on a solid surface. An oak block shouldwork well. Place the rod into the ferrule and seat it on the sand. Now tapthe rod with a small hammer. Gently, a lot of small "pecks" is better thanone big "whack". The sand spreads the force of the hammer and causes ittoswell. Hit it to hard and you can deform the ferrule but if you are gentle,you can bring it to just the right diameter. Regards, Onis k5vkq@ix.netcom.com from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Jun 22 17:24:42 2001 f5MMOfZ12369 Subject: Re: impregnating cane Back in the late 50's or early 60's I toured the Orvis plant in Manchester,VT. Unless my memory fails me, I'm sure that the cane sections wereplacedin a trough of impregnating liquid for several days. No pressure wasapplied. Also, doesn't the Herter book on rodmaking describe the patent from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Jun 22 17:36:12 2001 f5MMaBZ12722 [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: impregnating cane I toured the Orvis cane shop in 1989 with my wife (yes, it was on ourhoneymoon -- how romantic, eh?). We were told that the sections werebathed mention of vacuum or pressure. They said that they still use Bakelite, butthat it was "modified". Big surprise there.... Good memory, Ted! TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: impregnating cane Back in the late 50's or early 60's I toured the Orvis plant in Manchester,VT. Unless my memory fails me, I'm sure that the cane sections wereplacedin a trough of impregnating liquid for several days. No pressure wasapplied. Also, doesn't the Herter book on rodmaking describe the patent from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 17:39:06 2001 f5MMd5Z12880 2001 15:39:05 PDT Subject: RE: undersized ferrules a thin coat of super glue works. it isn't permenantbut it lasts a long time. timothy --- Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote:Very creative! Got any ideas for when the male isalready glued on? I don'twant to deform the female at all since the othermale is fine, so I don'twant to crimp the female or anything like that. Avery thin coating ofsomething on the male that dries really hard mightdo it...but I haven'tfound the right stuff yet. I tried rustoleum andthen lightly sanded it andI no longer have a tick in the ferrule, but I thinkthis is verytemporary...I know, I could just replace the malewith the problem... Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of Adam VigilSent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:35 AM Subject: Re: undersized ferrules Great Idea, this one is going into file for futurereference. Adam----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 7:47 AMSubject: Fwd: undersized ferrules k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote:I posted this a year or two ago but for the newlist members: If you find you have over sanded and have anundersized male ferrule, youmight try this. Go to an aquarium store andpurchase a small bag ofreptile/amphibian sand. It's the very fine sand. Now you need a steel rodjust smaller in diameter than the inside of the maleferrule. Make sureboth ends of the steel rod are square and flat onthe end. You only need apiece about 2 or 3 inches long. Now fill theferrule about 2/3 with thefine sand; enough to fill the section that will fitinside the female. Nowplace the closed end of the ferrule on a solidsurface. An oak block shouldwork well. Place the rod into the ferrule and seatit on the sand. Now tapthe rod with a small hammer. Gently, a lot of small"pecks" is better thanone big "whack". The sand spreads the force of thehammer and causes it toswell. Hit it to hard and you can deform theferrule but if you are gentle,you can bring it to just the right diameter. Regards, Onis k5vkq@ix.netcom.com ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 17:44:39 2001 f5MMicZ13078 PAA19434 Subject: Why impregnate? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Good question Darryl, The finishes that are currently used are fantastic. With me it is the =process of getting the cane impregnated and being able to finish a rod =in various methods is what draws me in. Years ago I knew a man that was rather well known in the custom archery =buisness. He created wonderful hand crafted bows and rifle stocks. His =name is Norm Richards, if if remember correctly. Anyway the way his =finish a bow was he would set it into a light cabinet and let the lights =heat it up to open up the wood. As the bow was heated he would then =spray his finish onto the bow and let it remain for awhile in the light =then he would turn the lights off and let the bow cool down. I rember =him telling me this is how he got finish into the wood. His finish work = Would heating up the blank with lights under the boiling point of H2O( =212F) and then applying finish provide a surface impregnation whichs =adds little weight? This seems to be similar to what Terry Acklund =claims about the characteristics of his impregnation on his rods. Adam Good question Darryl, The finishes that are currently used = being able to finish a rod in various methods is what draws me =in. = known in the custom archery buisness. He created wonderful hand crafted = the way his finish a bow was he would set it into a light cabinet and = then he would turn the lights off and let the bow cool down. I rember = superb. Would heating up the blank with lights = impregnation whichs adds little weight? This seems to be similar to what = rods. Adam from wer_education@yahoo.com Fri Jun 22 18:16:48 2001 f5MNGlZ13688 2001 16:16:46 PDT Subject: Form Problems Thanks for taking the time to look over my question. Iam a novice. My name is Ed. I have read the list servea little on someone else's PC and I have access to one direction.I had an oak final planning form but the screwsstripped and it can't close with any accuracy. Anyhints on a avoiding this ? Also could someone suggestwhat to do to redo the threads ? I finished planningone section and got stuck . The 10th position won'tclose under 60/1000s. I did try epoxy , weld epoxyand putty in the holds and re tapped them. No helpthey are still stripped. So make a metal one might be answer but I havepurchased some metal bars 6 ft to make a metalplanning form but the edges are round. When I putclamps on them they are 50/ 1000 deep already on theinside edges. I haven't even started to cut the 60degree V so I need to join them. I have checked with 2 local metal shops and they want more to square themthan new bootstraps. I don't have a mill or access toone just some basic work working tools ( lathe , drillpress, sander, router etc). Any work arounds thatyou know of would be appreciated .thanks,ED __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from channer@frontier.net Fri Jun 22 18:54:47 2001 f5MNslZ14268 Subject: Re: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Andy;I don't know about Anchor Bond, but Accraglas Gel works very well. It isdesigned to be a bit flexible, so it can give a bit when the metal movesmore than the bamboo. I don't think Epon is meant to bond metal andwood, but don't take my word for, there is a site for Epon somewhere onthe web, go there and email thier tech support and they will tell youwhat you need to know.John Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Sorry for the persistence, but I just wanted to ask again if anyone hasusedAnchor Bond for ferrules, and how it compares to Acraglas. Anotherquestionis if I use Acraglas, should I use any additives (atomized metals forinstance)? Oh, ok, one more question...how about using Epon (which Ialreadyhave) for ferrules? Thanks, Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.comSent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:02 PM Subject: RE: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Also, if I do still end up going with the Acraglas, do you guys recommendadding atomized metal to the Acraglas? Apparently you can add differentmaterials. According to the Brownells site: Atomized (finely powdered) metals can be added to ACRAGLAS GEL toincreaseboth tensile and compression strength along with increased impactresistance. -----Original Message-----From: Harsanyi, AndrewSent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:53 PM Subject: Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond adhesives for ferrules Any opinions on Acraglas vs. Anchor Bond? The place that has Anchor Bondhassomething else I need and I would rather not pay shipping to 2 places ifAnchor Bond is adequate. Thx..Andy from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jun 22 20:29:48 2001 f5N1TmZ15475 SAA26133; Subject: Re: Form Problems Check out http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/planeform.html also get the book Best of the planning form. I got mine fromhttp://vfish.net/books.htm It will show you how to make aluminum angleplanning forms for cheap. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Form Problems Thanks for taking the time to look over my question. Iam a novice. My name is Ed. I have read the list servea little on someone else's PC and I have access to one direction.I had an oak final planning form but the screwsstripped and it can't close with any accuracy. Anyhints on a avoiding this ? Also could someone suggestwhat to do to redo the threads ? I finished planningone section and got stuck . The 10th position won'tclose under 60/1000s. I did try epoxy , weld epoxyand putty in the holds and re tapped them. No helpthey are still stripped.So make a metal one might be answer but I havepurchased some metal bars 6 ft to make a metalplanning form but the edges are round. When I putclamps on them they are 50/ 1000 deep already on theinside edges. I haven't even started to cut the 60degree V so I need to join them. I have checked with2 local metal shops and they want more to square themthan new bootstraps. I don't have a mill or access toone just some basic work working tools ( lathe , drillpress, sander, router etc). Any work arounds thatyou know of would be appreciated .thanks,ED __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jun 22 21:12:03 2001 f5N2C3Z16228 Subject: Re: undersized ferrules In a message dated 06/22/2001 12:03:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com writes: Andy,The best way to take care of your undersizedmale, would be to nickel plate it and refit it. That's the way I fix them here in my shop. You may be able to find a jeweler locallythat does plating and see if he would nickel plate it for you. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from hartzell@easystreet.com Fri Jun 22 22:25:26 2001 f5N3PQZ17442 f5N3PAe23390; Subject: Re: Form Problems Rich,It is possible to make or buy inserts that are threaded that youcould drill for and glue into the wooden forms. A file works on meralto reduce the edge radius. Draw file it until you get as far down asyou need to.Ed Hartzell Rich McGaughey wrote: Thanks for taking the time to look over my question. Iam a novice. My name is Ed. I have read the list servea little on someone else's PC and I have access to one direction.I had an oak final planning form but the screwsstripped and it can't close with any accuracy. Anyhints on a avoiding this ? Also could someone suggestwhat to do to redo the threads ? I finished planningone section and got stuck . The 10th position won'tclose under 60/1000s. I did try epoxy , weld epoxyand putty in the holds and re tapped them. No helpthey are still stripped.So make a metal one might be answer but I havepurchased some metal bars 6 ft to make a metalplanning form but the edges are round. When I putclamps on them they are 50/ 1000 deep already on theinside edges. I haven't even started to cut the 60degree V so I need to join them. I have checked with2 local metal shops and they want more to square themthan new bootstraps. I don't have a mill or access toone just some basic work working tools ( lathe , drillpress, sander, router etc). Any work arounds thatyou know of would be appreciated .thanks,ED __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jun 22 23:16:39 2001 f5N4GcZ18061 Subject: Re: impregnating cane Typically, we are dealing with less than 2% moisture content on heat treatedbamboo. This could be good or bad depending upon the medium used forimpregnation. 10% - 12% moisture content would be the equilibrium moisturecontent for most of the US. SNIP Moisture content is very important for this technique. Too much moistureandit inhibits the vacuum process , too little and you start to get " cellfailures" in the timber. You need to work between 10 and 14% moisturecontent.That may not apply to a more dense timber ( grass) like bamboo . Ian from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jun 22 23:18:34 2001 f5N4IYZ18205 Subject: Re: Impregnation Bakelite resin was used in the original Orvis/Wes Jordan impregnationprocess. M-D To the List,Aside from the aspects dealt with by Doctor Ruth, I seem to recall thatinthe early days of cane rod impregnation, bakelite was used for thepurposesof eliminating the need for varnish, but mainly to permit milling thefinished blanks to final dimensions, power fibers bedamned. It made onetough rod, but indeed heavy and slow. And relatively low cost. Can any oneconfirm this? Bill from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Jun 23 06:35:47 2001 f5NBZkZ21598 Subject: Fwd: impregnating cane --part1_11b.b3630f.2865d90f_boundary --part1_11b.b3630f.2865d90f_boundary Full-name: RMargiotta Subject: Re: impregnating cane I believe the Orvis method is to fully saturate the cane with the liquid resin (many days involved -- not sure how many), then to bake off the liquid at a relatively low temperature. This leaves the resin imbedded in the interstitial spaces, effectively leaving no place for moisture to go even if it were to penetrate. As far as longevity, there is no doubt that this method has works and works very well. Look at all the older Orvis's available (50+ years) on the lists and their generally excellent condition. (The varnish on the wraps may have wilted but the cane is intact.) I will also say it's hard to find an Orvis section with a set. Whether or not you like their castability is another matter, subject to personal taste. --Rich --part1_11b.b3630f.2865d90f_boundary-- from wer_education@yahoo.com Sat Jun 23 09:23:00 2001 f5NEMxZ24487 Jun 2001 07:22:59 PDT Subject: Planning Forms Qustion #2 Ian Kearney , Alain , Ed Hartzell , Lazybee45@aol.com, Troutgetter@aol.com , Adam Vigil , channer , andTony Spezio . Thanks for all your advice and comments on theplanning forms. I have Bruce Connors info. Mac ( my friend who ownsthe PC ) printed it for me and I used it to make theforms. He lets me borrow his books and he hasGarrison , W. Cannach ( SP ?) , The Beautiful Reed and others . He just got the Best of Planning Formand I will try to look at that for some ideas. The wooden forms:I am going to the Lowes today to look for somethreaded inserts the appropriate size, or T nuts How are dowel pins used to keep the alignment ? Isthat the same as a set screw ? The metal forms: I am pretty sure they are cold Rolled Steel. Ipurchased them from Rio Grandee Rebar. I said coldrolled steel so much that they were tired of hearingit. What I am saying is I find it hard to imaginethat I have to take off 40 to 50 / 1000s with a file .Is that right ? And I will check to see that I havea mill file but my file didn't seem to take much off (like less than 1/ 1000 !). I have not been able tofind any other source of cold rolled steel , wherewould you look ? How much should 2 -6 foot lengthscost ? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from trpgo@msn.com Sat Jun 23 11:11:33 2001 f5NGBWZ25862 Sat, 23 Jun 2001 09:11:23 -0700 Subject: Stanley plane FILETIME=[25964050:01C0FBFF] I just picked up a Stanley block plane from a garage sale with an adjusta=ble mouth and has a model number of"SW" It seems to be in good condition. Has anyone heard of or used the plane? Tom I justpicked =up a Stanley block plane from a garage sale with an adjustable mouth and = condit= from homes-sold@home.com Sat Jun 23 12:31:09 2001 f5NHV8Z27712 femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: Titebond ll & Titebond PU type="multipart/alternative"; This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Looking at the spec sheets for the two I found it interesting to compare =the Application Guidelines and Bond Strength. The first thing that =caught my eye was the required clamping pressure, that seems like a =bunch. The second thing was the difference in loss of strength and % of =wood failure at 150* over night. Could these be possible causes of our =delaminating problems? My conclusion: These products are so good that =when we don't follow the guidelines to the letter we get away with it =most of the time. Let the flames begin! Titebond PUApplication Guidelines Application temperature Above 50=B0F.Assembly time after glue application 20-25 minutes (70=B0F./50%RH)Required clamping pressureEnough to bring joints tightly together = 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for medium woods and =175-250 psi for hardwoods).Cleanup Mineral spirits while glue is wet. Scrape or sand off =dried excess. Bond Strength ASTM D-905 Application Guidelines Application temperature Above 55=B0F.Assembly time after glue application 5 minutes (70=B0F./50%RH)Required clamping pressure Enough to bring joints tightly together =(generally, 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for medium woods and =175-250 psi for hardwoods)Cleanup Damp cloth while glue is wet. Scrape off dried excess. Bond Strength ASTM D-905 Looking at the spec sheets for the two= first thing that caught my eye was the required clamping pressure, that = like a bunch. The second thing was the difference in loss of strength = delaminating problems? My conclusion: These products are so good that = time. Let the flames begin! Titebond PU Application =Guidelines temperature Above =50=B0F.Assembly time after glue =application 20-25 minutes =(70=B0F./50%RH)Required clampingpressureEnough to bring joints tightly together = 30-80 psi for HPL, 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for = woods and 175-250 psi for hardwoods).Cleanup Mineral spirits while glue is wet. Scrape = dried excess. Bond Strength ASTM = Maple) Temperature psi% = Failure Room =Temperature3,500+60 150=B0F. =Overnight3,000+50 ll Application =Guidelines temperature Above =55=B0F.Assembly time after glue application =5 minutes(70=B0F./50%RH)Required clamping pressure Enough to bring joints tightly together = 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for medium woods and = Damp cloth= wet. Scrape off dried excess. Bond Strength ASTM = Maple) Temperature psi% = Failure Room =Temperature3,75072 150=B0F. =Overnight1,7506 name="clear.gif" Content-Location: http://www.titebond.com/images/clear.gif R0lGODlhAgACAID/AMDAwAAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAACAAIAAAIChFEAOw== from timklein@qwest.net Sat Jun 23 15:49:29 2001 f5NKnTZ00337 (63.225.241.220) Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU Don Schneider wrote: My conclusion: These products are so good that when we don't follow theguidelines to the letterwe get away with it most of the time. I certainly won't argue with you about that. When I started out I bound mysections by hand and can guarantee you that my clamping pressure not onlyvaried from section to section, it varied inch by inch! (as tired as my hands got, I'd have to guess that one end of each section Idid was half the tension of the end where I started!) Still though, I've never had a failure. A few years ago, I glued up a test section with Titebond II that I submergedin water for a couple weeks, slowly dried it over the next two weeks, thenflexed the living hell out of it.....no delamination. Mike Clark told me that one of the reasons he uses Titebond II is because ofhow well thin layers and chunks of dried glue, submerged in water for daysat a time, held up in his tests. My only complaint is the relatively short working time. I know there's aslow drying formula, but I haven't tried it out yet. Does anyone here haveany experience with it? I know Titebond II isn't the most exotic thing out there (which seems to goagainst many a rodmakers creedo of making everything as difficult andesoteric as possible), but I figure if it's good enough for some of the bestknown rodmakers of today, then it's plenty good enough for me. ---Tim from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jun 23 16:26:21 2001 f5NLQLZ01096 Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU --part1_e5.820bbe7.28666378_boundary I have used Titebond II Extend for about a year now (maybe two - the memory isn't what it used to be), no problems at all including putting glued sections in an oven at 200 degrees for two hours due to some residual tendency to take a set. It came out perfect and hasn't failed yet. I get it at www.woodcraft.com.Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 1:50:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, timklein@qwest.net writes:My only complaint is the relatively short working time. I know there's aslow drying formula, but I haven't tried it out yet. Does anyone here haveany experience with it? --part1_e5.820bbe7.28666378_boundary I haveused Titebond II Extend for about a year now (maybe two - the memory isn't what it used to be), no problems at all including putting glued sections in an oven at 200 degrees for two hours due to some residual tendency to take a set. It came out perfect and hasn't failed yet. I getit at www.woodcraft.com.Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 1:50:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, timklein@qwest.net writes:My only complaint is the relatively short working time. I know there's aslow drying formula, but I haven't tried it out yet. Does anyone herehaveany experience with it? --part1_e5.820bbe7.28666378_boundary-- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Sat Jun 23 18:19:00 2001 f5NNJ0Z02757 2001 16:18:59 PDT Subject: Sitting In O'hare with a four-hour delay and loving it Only because I'm on my way home after a great three days in Grayrock. Thanks to everyone there. Yes, those rods by Jeff Wagner and Al Meved are, in fact, thatbeautiful. Get a look at Jim Bureau's also. I've got 64 digital pictures I took that I can snailmail on a CD forthose interested. Just send me your address. They take up about 42meg, so the CD is the best way to see them. Jerry __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Jun 23 19:39:17 2001 f5O0dHZ03728 Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Darryl: I use Titebond to glue scarf joints on my rods, but tried the 200 degree = turned a dark brown. Joe Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 5:26 PMSubject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU I have used Titebond II Extend for about a year now (maybe two - the = tendency to take a set. It came out perfect and hasn't failed yet. I = My only complaint is the relatively short working time. I know = slow drying formula, but I haven't tried it out yet. Does anyone = Darryl: I use Titebond to glue scarf joints on my rods, but = 200 degree for two hours to set the Nyatex that I used to glue = joints turned a dark brown. Joe other....."What a Great Life". ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 = PMSubject: Re: Titebond ll & = PU used Titebond II Extend for about a year now (maybe two - the memory = what it used to be), no problems at all including putting glued = in an oven at 200 degrees for two hours due to some residual = take a set. It came out perfect and hasn't failed yet. I get it at =www.woodcraft.com.Darryl = message dated 6/23/01 1:50:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, = writes: My only complaint is the relatively short working time. = there's a slow drying formula, but I haven't tried it out yet. = anyone here have any experience with it? from ctn45555@centurytel.net Sat Jun 23 20:55:17 2001 f5O1tGZ04952 f5O1tEK13156 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: sanding and drying time At long last I am ready to dip my first rod. I am using Minwax Helmsmanspar urethane. There are two points I am unclear on: 1.) How long should the sections dry between successive coats(the can says 6 hours)?2.) Should I sand between all coats, or just before the final(third) coat? Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help, Chad from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jun 23 20:59:59 2001 f5O1xxZ05138 Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU --------------98093854F153EE8D34F43B72 Hi Darryl, This is the water based Titebond II extend wood glue you aretalking about isn't it? I always wanted to try it but after talking to aTech from the company I was told the strength of the glue diminishesrapidly as temps approach 200degrees F.I remember stopping in at the Winston Bamboo shop a few years ago. Theywere gluing up strips with this white water based glue that smelled justlike Elmers white glue. Glenn Brackett told me it was similar but hedidn't tell me any more. Marty DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I have used Titebond II Extend for about a year now (maybe two - thememoryisn't what it used to be), no problems at all including putting gluedsections in an oven at 200 degrees for two hours due to some residualtendency to take a set. It came out perfect and hasn't failed yet. Iget itat www.woodcraft.com.Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 1:50:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,timklein@qwest.net writes: My only complaint is the relatively short working time. I knowthere's aslow drying formula, but I haven't tried it out yet. Does anyonehere haveany experience with it? --------------98093854F153EE8D34F43B72 Hi Darryl, This is the water based Titebond II extend wood glue you aretalking about isn't it? I always wanted to try it but after talking toa Tech from the company I was told the strength of the glue diminishes ago. They were gluing up strips with this white water based glue that smelledjust like Elmers white glue. Glenn Brackett told me it was similar buthe didn't tell me any more. MartyDNHayashida@aol.com wrote:Ihave used Titebond II Extend for about a year now (maybe two - thememoryisn'twhat it used to be), no problems at all including puttinggluedsectionsin an oven at 200 degrees for two hours due to someresidualtendencyto take a set. It came out perfect and hasn't failed yet. I getitatwww.woodcraft.com.DarrylIna message dated 6/23/01 1:50:05 PM Pacific DaylightTime,timklein@qwest.netwrites:Myonly complaint is the relatively short working time. I know there'saslow dryingformula, but I haven't tried it out yet. Does anyone herehaveanyexperiencewith it? --------------98093854F153EE8D34F43B72-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jun 23 21:04:06 2001 f5O245Z05372 Subject: Re: sanding and drying time In a message dated 06/23/2001 9:55:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ctn45555@centurytel.net writes: Hi Chad, I sand the first coat and the second coat,after drying 24 hours between coats. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jun 23 22:09:34 2001 f5O39YZ06207 f5O39Qb09074;Sat, 23 Jun 2001 22:09:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU Exterior Carpenters Glue on my first 12 rods. Theyare all still ticking. Rod # 1 has taken over 300fish and has been soaked several times. It is overtwo years old now.I switched to Epon because it seemed the thing todo. When asked what glue do you use it raiseseyebrows when you say Elmers.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com none wrote: Hi Darryl, This is the water based Titebond IIextend wood glue you are talking about isn't it?I always wanted to try it but after talking to aTech from the company I was told the strength ofthe glue diminishes rapidly as temps approach200degrees F.I remember stopping in at the Winston Bambooshop a few years ago. They were gluing up stripswith this white water based glue that smelledjust like Elmers white glue. Glenn Brackett toldme it was similar but he didn't tell me anymore. Marty DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I have used Titebond II Extend for about ayear now (maybe two - the memoryisn't what it used to be), no problems at allincluding putting gluedsections in an oven at 200 degrees for twohours due to some residualtendency to take a set. It came out perfectand hasn't failed yet. I get itat www.woodcraft.com.Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 1:50:05 PM PacificDaylight Time,timklein@qwest.net writes: My only complaint is the relatively shortworking time. I know there's aslow drying formula, but I haven't tried itout yet. Does anyone here haveany experience with it? from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jun 23 22:44:31 2001 f5O3iVZ06855 Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU --part1_70.c15603f.2866bc1a_boundary We have come across something similar on this list before. Some people say they heat treat at 375 F for 30 minutes, but when I try it I get little charred pieces. All I can guess is different ovens types or tempmeasurement, who knows?Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 5:39:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jcbyrd@direct-pest.com writes:Darryl: I use Titebond to glue scarf joints on my rods, but tried the 200 degree turned a dark brown. Joe --part1_70.c15603f.2866bc1a_boundary We have come across something similar on this list before. Some peoplesay they heat treat at 375 F for 30 minutes, but when I try it I get little charred pieces. All I can guess is different ovens types or tempmeasurement, who knows?Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 5:39:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jcbyrd@direct-pest.com writes:Darryl: I use Titebond to glue scarf joints on my rods, but tried the 200 degree joints turned a dark brown. Joe --part1_70.c15603f.2866bc1a_boundary-- from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jun 23 22:52:30 2001 f5O3qTZ07096 Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU --part1_37.16ea03eb.2866bdf4_boundary I've tried Elmers, and I've tried Carpenters glue. They work just fine. Remember the "old masters" used hide glue and that isn't even close to waterproof. The varnish should keep water away from the glue in any case.P.S. The only failure with gluing strips I've ever had was with URAC. Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 7:00:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.net writes:Hi Darryl, This is the water based Titebond II extend wood glue you are talking about isn't it? I always wanted to try it but after talking to a Tech from the company I was told the strength of the glue diminishes rapidly as temps approach 200degrees F. I remember stopping in at the Winston Bamboo shop a few years ago. They were gluing up strips with this white water based glue that smelled just like Elmers white glue. Glenn Brackett told me it was similar but he didn't tell me any more. Marty --part1_37.16ea03eb.2866bdf4_boundary I've tried Elmers, and I've tried Carpenters glue. They work just fine. Remember the "old masters" used hide glue and that isn't even close to waterproof. The varnish should keep water away from the glue in anycase.P.S. The only failure with gluing strips I've ever had was with URAC. Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 7:00:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,horsesho@ptd.net writes:Hi Darryl, This isthe water based Titebond II extend wood glue you are talking about isn't it? I always wanted to try it but after talking to a Tech from the company I was told the strength of the glue diminishes I remember stopping in at the Winston Bamboo shop a few years ago.They were gluing up strips with this white water based glue that smelled just like Elmers white glue. Glenn Brackett told me it was similar but hedidn't tell me any more. Marty --part1_37.16ea03eb.2866bdf4_boundary-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jun 23 23:04:04 2001 f5O444Z07386 Subject: Excess ferrule glue Hi folks,Just cleaned the glue out from between the serrations ona couple of rods worth of ferrules. My procedure scares me,and I'm looking for suggestions. I taper and crown theferrules, then install and wrap. After 24-36 hours, Iremove the string, and begin the process of cleaning theglue from between the ferrules. I carefully use a finepointed x-acto knife to make a little slice in the glue,tracing around the ferrule tabs. Then I carefully scratchmost of the glue away with a bodkin. Finally, a little workwith steel wool cleans everything up. Only problem is, one slip and I've got a gash in thebamboo, or a scratch in the ferrule, or a bloody finger.There has to be a better way. All suggestions appreciated. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from martinj@aa.net Sun Jun 24 00:34:21 2001 f5O5YJZ08650 Sat, 23 Jun 2001 22:34:02 -0700 Subject: RE: Titebond ll & Titebond PU Sounds like you used an "alphetic" glue. I would expect that it would be atleast the equal and almost for sure better than, the old hide glues. I havenot used this "yellow" Elmer's glue to build a rod, but I would not behesitant to use it. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU Exterior Carpenters Glue on my first 12 rods. Theyare all still ticking. Rod # 1 has taken over 300fish and has been soaked several times. It is overtwo years old now.I switched to Epon because it seemed the thing todo. When asked what glue do you use it raiseseyebrows when you say Elmers.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com none wrote: Hi Darryl, This is the water based Titebond IIextend wood glue you are talking about isn't it?I always wanted to try it but after talking to aTech from the company I was told the strength ofthe glue diminishes rapidly as temps approach200degrees F.I remember stopping in at the Winston Bambooshop a few years ago. They were gluing up stripswith this white water based glue that smelledjust like Elmers white glue. Glenn Brackett toldme it was similar but he didn't tell me anymore. Marty DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I have used Titebond II Extend for about ayear now (maybe two - the memoryisn't what it used to be), no problems at allincluding putting gluedsections in an oven at 200 degrees for twohours due to some residualtendency to take a set. It came out perfectand hasn't failed yet. I get itat www.woodcraft.com.Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 1:50:05 PM PacificDaylight Time,timklein@qwest.net writes: My only complaint is the relatively shortworking time. I know there's aslow drying formula, but I haven't tried itout yet. Does anyone here haveany experience with it? from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jun 24 05:19:15 2001 f5OAJEZ10579 sender ) Subject: Re: sanding and drying time Chad, I would let them dry 24 hours between coats. I would hit them withsteel wool between coats but would sand them just before to the final coat.You can sand instead of steel wool between coats but I like to use steelwool to degloss as it is much faster. When you sand prior to the last coatyou want to spend some time to get the poly perfectly smooth. Marty Amy & Chad wrote: At long last I am ready to dip my first rod. I am using Minwax Helmsmanspar urethane. There are two points I am unclear on: 1.) How long should the sections dry between successive coats(the can says 6 hours)?2.) Should I sand between all coats, or just before the final(third) coat? Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help, Chad from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Jun 24 06:26:10 2001 f5OBQ9Z11292 f5OBQ8b04328 Subject: Re: Titebond ll & Titebond PU My oven is on the money and if I was to heat treat strips. I find for my purposes on a blond rod, 12minuets total works just fine. The 7 minuets is okon a flamed rod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: We have come across something similar on thislist before. Some people saythey heat treat at 375 F for 30 minutes, butwhen I try it I get littlecharred pieces. All I can guess is differentovens types or temp measurement,who knows?Darryl In a message dated 6/23/01 5:39:32 PM PacificDaylight Time,jcbyrd@direct- pest.com writes: Darryl: I use Titebond to glue scarf joints on myrods, but tried the 200 degree glue with. Scarf jointsturned a dark brown. Joe from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Jun 24 10:45:53 2001 f5OFjqZ14548 Subject: Re: Excess ferrule glue --part1_3d.d78fe7a.2867651c_boundary Harry, I do the same thing with dental tools. No problems so far. Mark Cole --part1_3d.d78fe7a.2867651c_boundary Harry, I do the same thing with dental tools. No problems so far. Mark Cole --part1_3d.d78fe7a.2867651c_boundary-- from bhoy551@earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 12:30:19 2001 f5OHUIZ15942 KAA20974; Subject: Re: Stanley plane Hi, Tom, The SW (or Sweetheart) symbol was a logo for the entire Stanley works, not a model designation. The heart was in honor of William Hart, company chairman who was associated with Stanley for more than 60 years. SW stood 1934 in favor of the familiar notched rectangle. Sweetheart planes are much sought after as good users and collectibles. If yours is a high angle plane ( the adjustment wheel on high angle planes is parallel to the sole, low angle wheels are set at an angle facing toward the front) it's probably either a 9 1/2 (japanned pressure plate released instruments for rodbuilding. I use 'em both. Bill Hoy At 12:09 PM 6/23/01, Tom Peters wrote:I just picked up a Stanley block plane from a garage sale with an adjustable mouth and has a model number of"SW" It seems to be in good condition. Has anyone heard of or used the plane? Tom from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jun 24 14:34:53 2001 f5OJYpZ17515 Subject: Re: Excess ferrule glue Harry: I always clean up the ferrule real good with Mineral Spirits prior tobinding with binding cord. Never have to clean out between the serrations. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Excess ferrule glue Hi folks,Just cleaned the glue out from between the serrations ona couple of rods worth of ferrules. My procedure scares me,and I'm looking for suggestions. I taper and crown theferrules, then install and wrap. After 24-36 hours, Iremove the string, and begin the process of cleaning theglue from between the ferrules. I carefully use a finepointed x-acto knife to make a little slice in the glue,tracing around the ferrule tabs. Then I carefully scratchmost of the glue away with a bodkin. Finally, a little workwith steel wool cleans everything up. Only problem is, one slip and I've got a gash in thebamboo, or a scratch in the ferrule, or a bloody finger.There has to be a better way. All suggestions appreciated. Harry--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Jun 24 19:13:40 2001 f5P0DdZ19829 RAA04599 Subject: test delete This is a multi-part message in MIME format. from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Jun 24 20:48:28 2001 f5P1mRZ21018 Subject: Re: Excess ferrule glue Harry, I wipe the excess glue off the ferrules before binding them. Afterthe epoxy is dried, I lightly scrape any excess glue that may have squeezedout in binding, then lightly polish with steel wool by stroking in onedirection. I make no attempt to remove any epoxy that is in the ferruleslits. from CCGGLOBAL@aol.com Sun Jun 24 21:20:27 2001 f5P2KQZ21482 Subject: GrayRock Gathering Rodmakers: GrayRock Gathering 2001 was a real success, Thanks goes toall of the staff who worked so hard to make the GrayRock Gathering anenjoyable learning experience. I also want to thank all of the Rodmakers who were so helpful and gave freely their advice and rodmaking tips. Rodmaking Gatherings are a souce of inspiration to make rods and a real opportunity to make lasting friendships, both of which I could not make the next rodwithout. See everyone at the Southern Rodmakers Gathering ! Best Regards ! Bill Campbell :e-mail : ccgglobal@aol.com from homes-sold@home.com Sun Jun 24 22:09:46 2001 f5P39jZ22188 femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:09:39 -0700 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Excess ferrule glue Harry, I think Ted has a point, just wipe off the excess before binding. Youeven have time to bind and un-bind and wipe off and bind again if you wish.As I understand it, the purpose of the serration's is to distribute theabrupt stresses where the ferrule and bamboo meet over a wider area. AsMartha would say "This is a good thing." The natural setup of the epoxy,provided there is not an excessive amount, is going to round off thetransition of the epoxy and ferrule, so why scrape and possibly cause sharpedges that may damage the winding? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Excess ferrule glue Harry, I wipe the excess glue off the ferrules before binding them. Afterthe epoxy is dried, I lightly scrape any excess glue that may have squeezedout in binding, then lightly polish with steel wool by stroking in onedirection. I make no attempt to remove any epoxy that is in the ferruleslits. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jun 24 23:10:35 2001 f5P4AZZ23019 Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:10:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Excess ferrule glue Ted,I can see your point, especially with a glue that dries hard as glass likemost epoxies. But using the Urethane Bond, the glue remains somewhatrubberyand flexible, never really getting hard. Also, if you don't scrape it out,then it will discolor the wraps you put over the ferrules. (Ask me how Ilearned that one) When wet, Urethane Bond can be cleaned up with mineralspirits -- perhaps the mineral spirits in the varnish thins the glue justenough to let it mess things up??? Harry Ted wrote: Harry, I wipe the excess glue off the ferrules before binding them. Afterthe epoxy is dried, I lightly scrape any excess glue that may have squeezedout in binding, then lightly polish with steel wool by stroking in onedirection. I make no attempt to remove any epoxy that is in the ferruleslits. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jun 24 23:13:43 2001 f5P4DgZ23212 Subject: Re: Excess ferrule glue Don,To give a stupid answer to a good question, the reason I scrape all thatstuff out is that I usually wrap the ferrules in white silk, which goes clearwhen varnished. The glue between the serrations is plainly visible, and uglyasmy brother's wife... :-)Not to mention the problems I mentioned in my reply to Ted. Thanks,HarryDon Schneider wrote: The natural setup of the epoxy, provided there is not an excessive amount,isgoing to round off the transition of the epoxy and ferrule, so why scrapeandpossibly cause sharp edges that may damage the winding? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from danny.twang@pd.no Mon Jun 25 02:21:36 2001 f5P7LYZ25741 +0200 +0200 Subject: Spinning Rod taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi ListAnyone having a 12`6" taper for 30-100g lures?TIAdanny Hi ListAnyone having a 12`6" taper for 30-100g = lures?TIAdanny from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Jun 25 07:36:49 2001 f5PCanZ28410 Subject: 2/3 wt tapers Sorry, for piggy-backing on Danny's message, but have been havingproblems ingetting a message out. After almost 40 years of being away from seriousbluegill fishing, I have recently rediscovered this avenue and have becometotally enamored with it--especially when they run 9-11", no one else on theponds, etc. Would like to make a bamboo rod for the latter for next year,preferably in the 2/3 wt range. I have great respect for St. Wayne'stapers,and he lists a 7'9" 2/3 wt that looks promising. Has anyone had anyexperience with this taper? Other possible suggestions you might be willingto share? TIA Jerry Snider from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jun 25 08:41:18 2001 f5PDfHZ00709 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: 2/3 wt tapers --=====================_49742439==_.ALT Jerry:You really cannot beat the light weight rods by Bob Nunley. His small tapers are awesome.Bob At 08:39 AM 6/25/2001 -0400, Jerry Snider wrote: Sorry, for piggy-backing on Danny's message, but have been having problems ingetting a message out. After almost 40 years of being away fromseriousbluegill fishing, I have recently rediscovered this avenue and have becometotally enamored with it--especially when they run 9-11", no one else on theponds, etc. Would like to make a bamboo rod for the latter for next year,preferably in the 2/3 wt range. I have great respect for St. Wayne's tapers,and he lists a 7'9" 2/3 wt that looks promising. Has anyone had anyexperience with this taper? Other possible suggestions you might be willingto share? TIA Jerry Snider Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_49742439==_.ALT Jerry:You really cannot beat the light weight rods by Bob Nunley. His smalltapers are awesome.BobAt 08:39 AM 6/25/2001 -0400, Jerry Snider wrote: problems in serious become one else on the year, tapers, any might be willing Jerry Snider Bob Maulucci> from flyfish@defnet.com MonJun 25 09:23:26 2001 f5PENPZ02230 Subject: Greyrock This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Just got back from Greyrock. What a great time!Being my first time to this event , I just had to say and fun to hang out with people. Too many to list.I learned one of the prerequisites for being a rodmaker was thinning or =no hair LOL. So I fit right in. ha ha ha!Tony Miller Just got back from Greyrock. What a = time!Being my first time to this event , I = saysomething about it. There were a alotof = talented = list.I learned one of the prerequisites for = rodmaker was thinning or no hair LOL. So I fit right in. ha ha =ha!Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jun 25 09:26:00 2001 f5PEPxZ02486 +0200 +0200 Subject: Re: Greyrock This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 4:22 PMSubject: Greyrock Just got back from Greyrock. What a great time!Being my first time to this event , I just had to say and fun to hang out with people. Too many to list.I learned one of the prerequisites for being a rodmaker was thinning =or no hair LOL. So I fit right in. ha ha ha!Tony Miller ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 =4:22 PMSubject: Greyrock Just got back from Greyrock. What a= time!Being my first time to this event , I = to saysomething about it. There were a alot= talented = to list.I learned one of the prerequisites for= ha!Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jun 25 09:27:43 2001 f5PERgZ02782 +0200 +0200 Subject: Re: Greyrock This is a multi-part message in MIME format. No ponytails???danny Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 4:22 PMSubject: Greyrock Just got back from Greyrock. What a great time!Being my first time to this event , I just had to say and fun to hang out with people. Too many to list.I learned one of the prerequisites for being a rodmaker was thinning =or no hair LOL. So I fit right in. ha ha ha!Tony Miller No ponytails???danny ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 =4:22 PMSubject: Greyrock Just got back from Greyrock. What a= time!Being my first time to this event , I = to saysomething about it. There were a alot= talented = to list.I learned one of the prerequisites for= ha!Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Jun 25 09:39:16 2001 f5PEdGZ03471 Subject: Re: Greyrock This is a multi-part message in MIME format. A few ponytails. But I didn't see under the hats. LOLTony Miller A few ponytails. But I didn't see under= LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from dryfly@erols.com Mon Jun 25 10:19:26 2001 f5PFJPZ05216 ([208.58.202.242] helo=erols.com) Subject: Grayrock Were there any new equipment debuts or demonstrations made at Grayrockthat us low life, working, non-attenders missed but should know about? Was there a demonstration of the Morgan Handmill? If so, I'd like tohear from any previous skeptics, I'm considering one and would like tohear the opinions. Thanks and sorry I missed it.Bob from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Jun 25 10:29:20 2001 f5PFTJZ05689 Subject: Re:Grayrock This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I arrived Fri.. night so I only was able to attend Saturdays =demonstrations. I didn't get to see the hand mill. But I saw an =interesting demo on Bark Grips. Tony Miller I arrived Fri.. night so I only was able = Saturdays demonstrations. I didn't get to see the hand mill. But I saw = interesting demo on Bark Grips.As an alternative to Cork or Rattan. = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jun 25 10:35:05 2001 f5PFZ3Z06040 Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:34:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Greyrock --------------1F7F8B3EA84C21325FEA5076 Tony Miller wrote: I learned one of the prerequisites for being a rodmakerwas thinning or no hair LOL. So I fit right in. ha ha ha! Guess it's a good thing I couldn't go.... Since I have afull head of hair, there's no way I would have fit in! :-) Deep in denial, and still paying full price for my monthlyhaircuts...Harry[Working the crowd] --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------1F7F8B3EA84C21325FEA5076 --------------2AF23B2DFEFF3D1B50F334D3 I learned one of theprerequisites ha ha! Deep in denial, and still paying full price for my monthly haircuts...Harry> from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Jun 25 12:27:02 2001 f5PHR1Z10256 Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:26:48 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:26:48 GMT Subject: Jim Christensen FILETIME=[03A73870:01C0FD9C] Would Jim Christensen from Vermont please E-mail me. I lost your E-mail address.Jim Bu- reau_________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jun 25 13:25:15 2001 f5PIPFZ12463 f5PIPAb22204 Subject: Re: Greyrock I was almost blinded by a flash when the photocame up. You don't suppose it might be the brightspot ahead of the hair line.LOL Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Tony Miller wrote: I learned one of the prerequisites for being arodmaker was thinning or no hair LOL. So I fitright in. ha ha ha! Guess it's a good thing I couldn't go....Since I have a full head of hair, there's no wayI would have fit in! :-) Deep in denial, and still paying full price formy monthly haircuts...Harry[Working the crowd] --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Mon Jun 25 14:04:59 2001 f5PJ4wZ14183 Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:04:41 -0700 Subject: Greyrock FILETIME=[B012DB20:01C0FDA9] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. How was the fishing?Mark How was the fishing?Mark from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jun 25 14:25:59 2001 f5PJPvZ16338 Subject: Re: Greyrock --=====================_70422330==_.ALT A shaved head and a bald head are not the same! At 10:22 AM 6/25/2001 -0400, Tony Miller wrote:Just got back from Greyrock. What a great time!Being my first time to this event , I just had to saysomething about it. There were a alot of very talentedand fun to hang out with people. Too many to list.I learned one of the prerequisites for being a rodmaker was thinning or no hair LOL. So I fit right in. ha ha ha!Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_70422330==_.ALT A shaved head and a bald head are not the same! At 10:22 AM 6/25/2001 - 0400, Tony Miller wrote:Just gotback from Greyrock. What a great time!Being my first time to this event , I just hadto saysomething about it. There were a alot of verytalented and fun to hang out with people. Too many tolist.I learned one of the prerequisites for being arodmaker was thinning or no hair LOL. So I fit right in. ha haha!Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_70422330==_.ALT-- from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jun 25 15:21:20 2001 f5PKLKZ01670 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy Have to agree with Allen on the URAC. I've glued every rod I have ever madewith URAC and never a delam. I've twisted a few blanks to splinters in thelathe (we won't discuss how many) but the glue joint never fails. It's thebamboo between the seams that comes apart.I also never heat treat the URAC. I let it set in string for 3 daysbefore I take it out and have never had a problem with it.As for the ferrules. I tried several different epoxies over the pastyears and the best, most failsafe method I've used to date is to pin theferrules. Doesn't matter what you use then, as long as you have a goodbamboo to metal fit and the pin in place... the ferrules aren't goinganywhere.Just got back from Grayrock! A great time had by all. Only problem isthat it didn't last long enough. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: use of devcon 5 min Epoxy I have used URAC for about 600 rods