from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 23:14:38 2001 f6L4EbZ17742 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 21:14:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Tip vibration FILETIME=[A09DE530:01C1119B] All,At the time I cast this rod I too thought that the line weight was wrong.However, if Walton Powell was correct than line weight would not be thecause of this vibration. I knew Walton and we talked on this matter someyears ago. I say you can go up one weight and down one but you can tell thedifference. Is it do to my casting, might be, but I haven't had that problembefore because it doesn't happen with an old Powell rod that I have.Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tip vibration I will be interested in the responses to this. I have been told thata too-light tip can contribute to this. --- Mark Dyba wrote:An acquaintance of mine showed me a new bamboo rod that he had justcompleted. The rod finish and components looked great. He told methat hisplanning finish was true to the figures given for that rod model,but when Icast the rod I couldn't keep line waves out of the cast. It lookedlikelittle riffle going all the way down the line to the leader. I havebeencasting for many years and this has not been one of my castingfaults.Question; is this a flaw in the bamboo,or in his planning of thebamboo?I might add that the rod felt very heavy for a rod that casts a 5wt. line.Mark----- Original Message -----From: Ed Hartzell Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 12:42 PMSubject: Re: Millward on Garrison Stress Curves Allan,I recall seeing a video up at Corbett Lake a few years agothatPeterMcVey showed. He had worked for an English rod maker and filmedtheprocess.The maker bent each strip while planing it to determine itsbendingcharacteristic. Perhaps Coffey is right and we need to determinethecharacteristics of the cane we use by empirical tests before weleave toomuchor make it too thin. This supports the fact that rod making isan art,not acraft.Ed Hartzell Allen Thramer wrote: I think that that is the heart of the value of Garrisson stresscurves.Theyquickly and accurately define the 'character' of the rod. Allothervariables are hatched from the type of taper you are dealingwith. Ithinkthat is why I have such a mistrust of computer generatedtapers. theyarefine as a starting point but much is still left to therodmakersunderstanding of how a taper works. Not so much in changing from onelinesize to another but critical when you change the length of therod ortry tochange from a 2 to a 3 pc. I have never thought a para taperworkedworth ahoot as a three pc , aparrent why when you see that the buttferrule isinthe way of the para developing its power in a smooth andcontrolledfashion.A.J.Thramer From: EESweet@aol.com Subject: Re: Millward on Garrison Stress CurvesDate: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:06:54 EDT Wow, what a great discussion! I have to wonder though, ifmaybe we'regetting lost in the details? For me, the value of Garrison'smathisn't init's inherent accuracy or inaccuracy, but rather in it'sability torepresentthe character of the rod. I can tell from simply glancing ata stresscurvehow a rod will behave when I cast it, be it fast, slow,parabolic orwhatever. For whatever reason that's something I can't get from agraph ofthe taper. Isn't that where it's value lies? Eric _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jul 21 00:47:14 2001 f6L5lDZ19662 Subject: Re: Fake Rods Yes, beware of fakes. I have seen one rod that had Leonard reel seathardware but the rod itself and the reel seat insert were not Leonard.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Fake Rods I had a rep for a certain fly fishing component manufacturer offer to sellme a Leonard bamboo blank he had (he wouldn't quote the source ofcourse) believe him and passed....this was about 3 years ago -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 2:48 AM Subject: Fake Rods Unfortunately fakes are a reality, I saw one two years ago on theMcKenzie.A nice gentleman was watching my son and I rig up and he saw that wewereusing bamboo(Heddon #20 8 1/2 - 2 1/2F and a 8ft Phillipson) proud aspunchhe brought out the new rod that his wife purchased for him. A single tiprod that was sold to her as restored Leonard for $1400. It wasn't, acollection of sticks with bad components. Wouldn't have fooled many people(NO oneonthis group). As you can imagine I told him how nice it was and what aluckyguy he was. I still don't know if that was the right thing to do, I simplycouldn't burst the bubble he was living in. OK I was weak. Just had enoughsadness and bitterness for one day I guess. I often wonder about those'rods found unfinished on the masters bench' rods that still pop up. Notaccusingjust curious.A.J.Thramer From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: in search ofDate: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:23:04 -0400 You know I was thinking something sort of like this the other day aboutLeonard rods. It's amazing how many untouched and unfished Leonards Iseegoing on Ebay.I just wonder how many are truly original and how many are copies orrestored. With a price tag of $3000 or better there has got to besomeonewho is willing to copy a Leonard.I seen Brand new Leonard parts on ebay once and the bidding gotoutrageous. Now while it is true, they could have used these parts to restore, whatare the odds it ended up on an exact copy.I'm sure no reputable maker would do such a thing, but when there is coldhard cash to be made you know someone has done it. Just pondering ithasanyone else ever wondered?How would you know an exact Copy if it had the right parts on it? I onlybring this up because I would like to purchase a Leonard and its a scarythought to pay $3000 if your not sure.I even have a picture of an old Leonard that I seen In the museum of flyfishing and I had reason to believe it was not all original. has anyoneelse encountered this?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from setissma@email.msn.com Sat Jul 21 08:45:30 2001 f6LDjPZ22971 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 06:45:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Garrison stagger question FILETIME=[62849F50:01C111EB] I am producing my first rod using the Garrison-style nodal stagger, andnoticed something that does not seem to be in any of my books. I staggeredthe nodes by about 1 1/2 inches, cut the strips to working length, andarranged them in the following order: 1 5 3 6 2 4. This is the traditional sequence, I believe. Then I noticed something. The object of this design is to isolate each nodein space, but when the strips are laid out in their original order (1 2 3 45 6), this objective is already achieved! It also seems that it would lookvery cool, because as you rotate the rod, the nodes would appear to spiralup the blank. Especially in a flamed rod, with golden nodes, which I happento be building. The only potential problem would be if the butt-most node onstrip six was too close to the next higher tip-most node on strip 1. That isnot the case (See Elser and Maurer page 71 if you want to visualize this). 1. Is my reasoning correct? 2. Can anyone think of a bona-fide reason not to do it this way? I can't,which is why I am posing the question. Jeff Schaeffer from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Jul 21 09:38:43 2001 f6LEcgZ23547 f6LEbgb09786; f6LEaiS65501; Subject: Re: Garrison stagger question Because it wouldn't duplicate the firing order of a 6 cyl. engine. (Gar1:18). A spiral stagger looks nice; works fine.Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Garrison stagger question I am producing my first rod using the Garrison-style nodal stagger, andnoticed something that does not seem to be in any of my books. Istaggeredthe nodes by about 1 1/2 inches, cut the strips to working length, andarranged them in the following order: 1 5 3 6 2 4. This is the traditional sequence, I believe. Then I noticed something. The object of this design is to isolate eachnodein space, but when the strips are laid out in their original order (1 2 345 6), this objective is already achieved! It also seems that it would lookvery cool, because as you rotate the rod, the nodes would appear to spiralup the blank. Especially in a flamed rod, with golden nodes, which Ihappento be building. The only potential problem would be if the butt-most nodeonstrip six was too close to the next higher tip-most node on strip 1. Thatisnot the case (See Elser and Maurer page 71 if you want to visualize this). 1. Is my reasoning correct? 2. Can anyone think of a bona-fide reason not to do it this way? I can't,which is why I am posing the question. Jeff Schaeffer from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Jul 21 09:48:01 2001 f6LEm0Z23805 f6LEkf052791 f6LEkAS68551 Subject: Milward feedback I hope some of you contacted Bob Milward with comments on his book (Hehascomplained of a "deadly hush").I forgot to, but I will this weekend. Bob's FAX 604 596 7566Bob's phone 604 985 0860 from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Jul 21 09:53:21 2001 f6LErKZ24052 f6LEqW055338 f6LEqDS70489 Subject: Conversation with St. Croix There is a thread on modulus that might be of interest onhttp://www.rodbuilding.org from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sat Jul 21 10:23:47 2001 f6LFNkZ24606 Subject: Re: Garrison stagger question Jeff, As an unconfirmed thuoght, when node is placed spiral around the section, itmight affect bending behavior of the section as if the section may betwisted along with spiarally placed node order, I guess. Especially thismight happen on thin tip section more often. My favourite staggering is 2x2x2. It always places a pair of nodes at theother side of a flat,and the effects of nodes to bending, if it actually exists, is even towardright and left direction. Another reason is for straightening after glueing.Mostly the points which need to be straightened, have node(s) around it, inmy experiences.I thought 2x2x2 or 3x3 may have less points to bestraightened .Spiral will have most node positions scattered over the section. It forcesme a burden of straightening efforts. But when I use Japanese bamboo species, I adopt spiral staggering becausethe nodes of Japanese bamboo becomes weak after burning, flattening andstraightening. Spiral is the strongest staggering for a rod in such case. Max I am producing my first rod using the Garrison-style nodal stagger, andnoticed something that does not seem to be in any of my books. Istaggeredthe nodes by about 1 1/2 inches, cut the strips to working length, andarranged them in the following order: 1 5 3 6 2 4. This is the traditional sequence, I believe. Then I noticed something. The object of this design is to isolate eachnodein space, but when the strips are laid out in their original order (1 2 345 6), this objective is already achieved! It also seems that it would lookvery cool, because as you rotate the rod, the nodes would appear to spiralup the blank. Especially in a flamed rod, with golden nodes, which Ihappento be building. The only potential problem would be if the butt-most nodeonstrip six was too close to the next higher tip-most node on strip 1. Thatisnot the case (See Elser and Maurer page 71 if you want to visualize this). 1. Is my reasoning correct? 2. Can anyone think of a bona-fide reason not to do it this way? I can't,which is why I am posing the question. Jeff Schaeffer from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 11:02:16 2001 f6LG2FZ25078 JAA20732; Subject: Re: Milward feedback The silence is deafening for one reason. He has no email. I have read hisbook twice already and would like to give him feedback. But calling orfaxing is not the most effective way of giving quick feedback. Some of us donot have time to play telephone tag or wait for a fax. With all of his workI am surprised he does not have an email address. He could even get onefromJuno for free. I think they still do that. Hot mail always works. Or betteryet have him get on the list and he would hear anything but a "deadly hush". What he has done in his book is a great service for the thought process forthe Crafters of Gods Grass. If he wishes to hear a bunch of opinions on hiswork he better get where the conversation is occurring. The bunch of guyhere are anything but shy! Best Regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Milward feedback I hope some of you contacted Bob Milward with comments on his book (Hehascomplained of a "deadly hush").I forgot to, but I will this weekend. Bob's FAX 604 596 7566Bob's phone 604 985 0860 from hartzell@easystreet.com Sat Jul 21 12:22:22 2001 f6LHMLZ26692 Subject: Re: Garrison stagger question Jeff,That's the way I do it and I have had no trouble. Looks good and works well Ed Hartzell setissma wrote: I am producing my first rod using the Garrison-style nodal stagger, andnoticed something that does not seem to be in any of my books. Istaggeredthe nodes by about 1 1/2 inches, cut the strips to working length, andarranged them in the following order: 1 5 3 6 2 4. This is the traditional sequence, I believe. Then I noticed something. The object of this design is to isolate each nodein space, but when the strips are laid out in their original order (1 2 3 45 6), this objective is already achieved! It also seems that it would lookvery cool, because as you rotate the rod, the nodes would appear to spiralup the blank. Especially in a flamed rod, with golden nodes, which I happento be building. The only potential problem would be if the butt-most node onstrip six was too close to the next higher tip-most node on strip 1. That isnot the case (See Elser and Maurer page 71 if you want to visualize this). 1. Is my reasoning correct? 2. Can anyone think of a bona-fide reason not to do it this way? I can't,which is why I am posing the question. Jeff Schaeffer from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Sat Jul 21 13:12:31 2001 f6LICUZ27681 Subject: Re: Fake Rods Last summer I found a bamboo rod in an antique shop in Oregon that wasmarked as a "Granger". It was obviously not a granger - it had blonde cane,red wraps, different ferrules and grip design, and no markings on the shaftat all. It looked to me like a nice piece of work by an amateur rod maker. It did have a granger reel seat. Possibly the rodmaker bought a reel seat from Granger or removed one from another rod. The shop owner had the rod based on the reel seat because he had nothing else to go by fordetermining value. He seemed like an honest guy & I think it was an honestmistake. from BarbRain@aol.com Sat Jul 21 13:25:12 2001 f6LIPBZ28099 Subject: Re: Tip vibration I have found that one should not judge a rod until several lines have been tried. You will be surprised what a tremendous differance there is between "like" lines. from what you said there may be quite a mismatch between rod and line. George Rainville I have found that oneshould not judge a rod until several lines have been tried. You will be surprised what a tremendous differance there isbetween "like" lines. from what you said there may be quite a mismatch betweenrod from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jul 21 16:04:00 2001 f6LL40Z00353 Subject: Utility Rod Tubes One of the problems I have in making rods is a shortage of rod tubes. I would like to avoid the cost of buying a store bought aluminum or cloth covered plastic rod tube, and frankly I don't like metal rod tubes because they dent and get scratched up. The cloth covered ones are okay, but again the cost, and I can't always find the size I need (can't find the right size for my 5 foot 3 piece backpacking rod). I started thinking about PVC pipe. After looking over how I might make a rod tube from PVC pipe, I decided I didn't like all the adapters and glue on fittings you have to put on the end to use a threaded cap or plug. So the next step was directly threading the end of the pipe. Pipe threading dies are expensive, but eBay has quite a few up for auction at a fraction of a new die price. After a 2 weeks I have a set of pipe threading dies, so I go at it. I find the teeth dig in and catch, and chip off pieces of the edge of the pipe. A few emails and internet searches, I find that there are PVC pipe threading teeth for the dies I bought (a Ridgid 12R), so I get a set of them. The end result - 74 cents each for threaded end caps, $3.50 for 10 feet of PVC pipe, cut it to size, thread the ends, and I have a durable, strong rod tube. PVC pipe doesn't dent, if it gets scratched up, who cares? its only a couple dollars of PVC pipe. 1 1/2 inch PVC pipe is the best size. 1 1/4 is a little too small, you can only get a handle section and one tip inside, and 2 inch is getting too bulky and heavy. Don't get me wrong, I admire the hex wood rod cases, I even have one myself made out of cherry wood that Ron Barch made, But I hate taking it fishing with me because it can get dinged up or scratched, and no way would youtake it on a hiking trip. Now I slide a rod into a piece of PVC pipe with threaded caps on each end and toss it into the back of the van. If someone is looking to rip off a few rods from your parked car while you are off fishing, a few pieces of plastic pipe is very inconspicuous. Definitely not for show, but great for going fishing. They float too! Darryl Oneof the problems I have in making rods is a shortage of rod tubes. I would like to avoid the cost of buying a store bought aluminum or clothcovered plastic rod tube, and frankly I don't like metal rod tubes because theydent and get scratched up. The cloth covered ones are okay, but again thecost, and I can't always find the size I need (can't find the right size for my 5 foot 3 piece backpacking rod). I started thinking about PVC pipe. After looking over how I might make arod tube from PVC pipe, I decided I didn't like all the adapters and glue on fittings you have to put on the end to use a threaded cap or plug. Sothe next step was directly threading the end of the pipe. Pipe threading diesare expensive, but eBay has quite a few up for auction at a fraction of anew die price. After a 2 weeks I have a set of pipe threading dies, so I go at it. I find the teeth dig in and catch, and chip off pieces of the edge of thepipe. A few emails and internet searches, I find that there are PVC pipethreading teeth for the dies I bought (a Ridgid 12R), so I get a set of them. Theend result - 74 cents each for threaded end caps, $3.50 for 10 feet of PVCpipe, cut it to size, thread the ends, and I have a durable, strong rod tube.PVC pipe doesn't dent, if it gets scratched up, who cares? its only a couple dollars of PVC pipe. 1 1/2 inch PVC pipe is the best size. 1 1/4 is alittle too small, you can only get a handle section and one tip inside, and 2inch is getting too bulky and heavy. Don't get me wrong, I admire the hex wood rod cases, I even have onemyself made out of cherry wood that Ron Barch made, But I hate taking itfishing with me because it can get dinged up or scratched, and no way wouldyou take it on a hiking trip. Now I slide a rod into a piece of PVC pipe withthreaded caps on each end and toss it into the back of the van. If someone islooking to rip off a few rods from your parked car while you are off fishing, afew pieces of plastic pipe is very inconspicuous. Definitely not for show, but great for going fishing. They float too! Darryl from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jul 21 16:16:42 2001 f6LLGgZ00643 Subject: Re: Fake Rods none wrote: Tom, Granger made 2 blonde models. The Colorodo Special and the DenverSpecial.I know the Colorodo Special had red wraps. The model name only appearedon thehanging tag which most of the time is lost. Both models did use Grangerferrules though. Marty Tom Bowden wrote: Last summer I found a bamboo rod in an antique shop in Oregon that wasmarked as a "Granger". It was obviously not a granger - it had blondecane,red wraps, different ferrules and grip design, and no markings on theshaftat all. It looked to me like a nice piece of work by an amateur rod maker. It did have a granger reel seat. Possibly the rodmaker bought a reel seat from Granger or removed one from another rod. The shop owner had the rod based on the reel seat because he had nothing else to go by fordetermining value. He seemed like an honest guy & I think it was anhonestmistake. from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sat Jul 21 16:56:29 2001 f6LLuSZ01289 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 14:36:07 -0400 Subject: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make I've got a decision to make about where I go from here. Fix or buy? Firstlet me give you the problems. Have final planed the butt section of my first rod and I am fairly certain Ihaven't got a 60* bevel on the form. There are other problems with myprocess also but this seems to be one of the may causes of my accuracyproblems. My first thought was to set it up again and run a new and smallertriangle file down it trying to take a minimum of material off each timeuntil it is right. So I began work on the tips. Turned the form over and started to set theform for the tip section and found that the bevel has been cut too deep. Ican't set the form small enough. Obviously I need to file the top of theform again lowering the depth of the bevel and then touch up the bevel. So I am faced with a decision to 1) rework both sides of the form, 2) buyone of the more economical forms that require some work or 3) spend alittlebit of money for some good forms. I'm leaning towards fixing mine but wanta little information. First question: I've picked up on the list that the $350 +/- forms you canbuy require a little fine tuning and work but I don't recall hearing anyonesay what needs to be adjusted and how. This may be the quickest way to getback in production. Second question: To fix my forms I plan to take a vixen file to the topsurfaces again and then slowly rework the bevel. I figure I need to take atleast .005 off the top maybe more. Does anyone have any advice. The disappointment is that I had hoped to have my first rod completed bySRGbut, based on how many hours I've already got in the form, it I wonder if Ican be finished by the next Grayrock. What the heck! The goal of the firstrod was to learn the process and to learn how to use the tools. FortunatelyI am leaving myself plenty of room for improvement. ThanksTim from cw@vanion.com Sat Jul 21 17:23:46 2001 f6LMNkZ01902 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensee9bafdcb120a7d1559850f82300897dc) Subject: Removing Enamel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Being new to the process of building cane rods, would like to get =feedback on removing enamel; how , when, scrapers, files, sanding...etc. =Thanks, Chad Being new to the process ofbuilding = would like to get feedback on removing enamel; how , when, scrapers, = sanding...etc. Thanks, Chad from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jul 21 17:24:00 2001 f6LMNxZ01923 Subject: Re: Tip vibration My observation is that this occurs on rods with light tips when a hardforward stroke is applied. Also, I try several different line weights, notto mention different tapers on a rod. There is definitely a difference to behad, seen, and felt. M-D I will be interested in the responses to this. I have been told thata too-light tip can contribute to this. --- Mark Dyba wrote:An acquaintance of mine showed me a new bamboo rod that he had justcompleted. The rod finish and components looked great. He told methat hisplanning finish was true to the figures given for that rod model,but when Icast the rod I couldn't keep line waves out of the cast. It lookedlikelittle riffle going all the way down the line to the leader. I havebeencasting for many years and this has not been one of my castingfaults.Question; is this a flaw in the bamboo,or in his planning of thebamboo?I might add that the rod felt very heavy for a rod that casts a 5wt. line.Mark----- Original Message -----From: Ed Hartzell Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 12:42 PMSubject: Re: Millward on Garrison Stress Curves Allan,I recall seeing a video up at Corbett Lake a few years agothatPeterMcVey showed. He had worked for an English rod maker and filmedtheprocess.The maker bent each strip while planing it to determine itsbendingcharacteristic. Perhaps Coffey is right and we need to determinethecharacteristics of the cane we use by empirical tests before weleave toomuchor make it too thin. This supports the fact that rod making isan art,not acraft.Ed Hartzell Allen Thramer wrote: I think that that is the heart of the value of Garrisson stresscurves.Theyquickly and accurately define the 'character' of the rod. Allothervariables are hatched from the type of taper you are dealingwith. Ithinkthat is why I have such a mistrust of computer generatedtapers. theyarefine as a starting point but much is still left to therodmakersunderstanding of how a taper works. Not so much in changing from onelinesize to another but critical when you change the length of therod ortry tochange from a 2 to a 3 pc. I have never thought a para taperworkedworth ahoot as a three pc , aparrent why when you see that the buttferrule isinthe way of the para developing its power in a smooth andcontrolledfashion.A.J.Thramer From: EESweet@aol.com Subject: Re: Millward on Garrison Stress CurvesDate: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:06:54 EDT Wow, what a great discussion! I have to wonder though, ifmaybe we'regetting lost in the details? For me, the value of Garrison'smathisn't init's inherent accuracy or inaccuracy, but rather in it'sability torepresentthe character of the rod. I can tell from simply glancing ata stresscurvehow a rod will behave when I cast it, be it fast, slow,parabolic orwhatever. For whatever reason that's something I can't get from agraph ofthe taper. Isn't that where it's value lies? Eric _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mailhttp://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Sat Jul 21 17:27:12 2001 f6LMRCZ02240 Subject: Re: Milward feedback Bob told me he had no e-mail, and didn't want it until the fire died downsome. I don't know, but it seems to me that the content of the discussionshas been quite civil. Someone fax Bob and tell him that he can un-barricadethe door now. The hoards of Bamboo Philistines won't be visiting. M-D The silence is deafening for one reason. He has no email.Best Regards, Adam Vigil From: Jim Utzerath I hope some of you contacted Bob Milward with comments on his book (Hehascomplained of a "deadly hush").I forgot to, but I will this weekend. Bob's FAX 604 596 7566Bob's phone 604 985 0860 from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 17:37:09 2001 f6LMb8Z02876 PAA03141; Subject: Re: Utility Rod Tubes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Great Idea, If the cost of tubes is a problem or just tired of spending so much try =these folks http://www.aladysangle.com/usa.html. The standard rod tube =is like $15. Pretty good deal. Just sharing info folk. I actually got =this site off of Bob Malucci web page. Adam Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:03 PMSubject: Utility Rod Tubes Great Idea, If the cost of tubes is a problem or = spending so much try these folks http://www.aladysangle.com/u= The standard rod tube is like $15. Pretty good deal. Just = folk. I actually got this site off of Bob Malucci web page. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 = PMSubject: Utility Rod =Tubes from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 17:37:26 2001 f6LMbPZ02899 PAA13867 PAA00686 Subject: Milward on nodeless construction I read Bob's Maulucci's review of Bob Milward's "Bamboo: Fact, Fiction, andFlyrods" in Power Fibers, which by the way is another super issue. Like many, I am curious and look forward to reading it when it arrives. Iconfess I am weak and cannot wait until that day. I am most curious abouthis analysis of nodeless rod construction. If someone out there is feelinggenerous, and will not insist on me waiting to read it myself, would youkindly summarize what Bob has to say on this method of rod making? Thanksvery much indeed. Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 17:41:37 2001 f6LMfaZ03230 PAA16715; Subject: Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make Tim, I have the Colorado bootstrap forms. I ran a dial indicator across it tofind what was level or not. I spent maybe 45 minutes to tune up both sidesof forms. True blue now, no biggy. $399 it should have been done already,but I am not willing to pay $750 for forms just to save 45minutes. Best Regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make I've got a decision to make about where I go from here. Fix or buy?Firstlet me give you the problems. Have final planed the butt section of my first rod and I am fairly certainIhaven't got a 60* bevel on the form. There are other problems with myprocess also but this seems to be one of the may causes of my accuracyproblems. My first thought was to set it up again and run a new andsmallertriangle file down it trying to take a minimum of material off each timeuntil it is right. So I began work on the tips. Turned the form over and started to set theform for the tip section and found that the bevel has been cut too deep.Ican't set the form small enough. Obviously I need to file the top of theform again lowering the depth of the bevel and then touch up the bevel. So I am faced with a decision to 1) rework both sides of the form, 2) buyone of the more economical forms that require some work or 3) spend alittlebit of money for some good forms. I'm leaning towards fixing mine butwanta little information. First question: I've picked up on the list that the $350 +/- forms youcanbuy require a little fine tuning and work but I don't recall hearinganyonesay what needs to be adjusted and how. This may be the quickest way togetback in production. Second question: To fix my forms I plan to take a vixen file to the topsurfaces again and then slowly rework the bevel. I figure I need to takeatleast .005 off the top maybe more. Does anyone have any advice. The disappointment is that I had hoped to have my first rod completed bySRGbut, based on how many hours I've already got in the form, it I wonder ifIcan be finished by the next Grayrock. What the heck! The goal of thefirstrod was to learn the process and to learn how to use the tools.FortunatelyI am leaving myself plenty of room for improvement. ThanksTim from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 18:20:07 2001 f6LNK6Z04228 QAA14182; Subject: Re: Milward on nodeless construction Okay Frank here we go, Milliards likes modeless construction. He says it will make the rod slightlystiffer and lighter. His conclusions are that nodes are softer and canencourage sets in a rod. He gives it as an option and not as a solution. There you go, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Milward on nodeless construction I read Bob's Maulucci's review of Bob Milward's "Bamboo: Fact, Fiction,andFlyrods" in Power Fibers, which by the way is another super issue. Like many, I am curious and look forward to reading it when it arrives. Iconfess I am weak and cannot wait until that day. I am most curious abouthis analysis of nodeless rod construction. If someone out there is feelinggenerous, and will not insist on me waiting to read it myself, would youkindly summarize what Bob has to say on this method of rod making?Thanksvery much indeed. Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 21 18:30:24 2001 f6LNUNZ04536 Subject: Re: Milward on nodeless construction --=====================_37732011==_.ALT HI Frank.Thanks for the kind words, and I did in fact fax a copy of the review to Bob today. As for the nodeless rods, he says (brief recap):Nodes reduce stiffness by 7%With staggering the benefits in increased stiffness is about 3.5% for butts, and 2.6% for tips for nodeless over traditionally noded rods..With nodeless: strips need no heat straightening, eliminates splitting difficulties, scarfs need to be well done.BUT in his opinion****The only real advantage is reduced weight; increased stiffness is no benefit because it can be stiffened up with taper manipulation in a noded rod. Best regards, and YES YOU WANT THE BOOK ANYWAY :/)Bob Maulucci At 06:21 PM 7/21/2001 -0400, Frank Olivieri wrote:I read Bob's Maulucci's review of Bob Milward's "Bamboo: Fact, Fiction, andFlyrods" in Power Fibers, which by the way is another super issue. --=====================_37732011==_.ALT HI Frank. Thanks for the kind words, and I did in fact fax a copy of the review toBob today.As for the nodeless rods, he says (brief recap):Nodes reduce stiffness by 7%With staggering the benefits in increased stiffness is about 3.5% forbutts, and 2.6% for tips for nodeless over traditionally nodedrods..With nodeless: strips need no heat straightening, eliminates splittingdifficulties, scarfs need to be well done.BUT in his opinion****The only real advantage is reduced weight; increased stiffnessis no benefit because it can be stiffened up with taper manipulation in anoded rod.Best regards, and YES YOU WANT THE BOOK ANYWAY :/)Bob MaulucciAt 06:21 PM 7/21/2001 -0400, Frank Olivieri wrote:I read Bob's Maulucci's review ofBob Milward's "Bamboo: Fact, Fiction, andFlyrods" in Power Fibers, which by the way is another superissue. --=====================_37732011==_.ALT-- from rjwlawed@msn.com Sat Jul 21 19:26:53 2001 f6M0QqZ05416 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:26:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 2001 00:26:40.0212 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9DC3940:01C11244] tim, i take it your forms are steel(?). if your tip groove is too deep an=d your but groove is as you say ,the wrong angle,i would think a simple a=nd economical fix would be to take the forms apart and take them to a goo=d machine shop preferrably one that has a surface grinder . tell the mach=inist to to take .005 or so off the inside faces of the form( the faces t=hat face each other when the form is together). this will solve both prob=lems with on operation. it will make the tip groove shallower and will re=move enought stock from the butt groove side to allow you to re-file the =butt groove at home.it shouldn't cost very much either. it could also be =done with a milling machine. also if you have an automotive machine shop =in the area they might have a long bed surface grinder for doing big dies=le heads. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make I've got a decision to make about where I go from here. Fix or buy? Fir=stlet me give you the problems. Have final planed the butt section of my first rod and I am fairly certai=n Ihaven't got a 60* bevel on the form. There are other problems with myprocess also but this seems to be one of the may causes of my accuracyproblems. My first thought was to set it up again and run a new and smal=lertriangle file down it trying to take a minimum of material off each timeuntil it is right. So I began work on the tips. Turned the form over and started to set theform for the tip section and found that the bevel has been cut too deep. =Ican't set the form small enough. Obviously I need to file the top of theform again lowering the depth of the bevel and then touch up the bevel. So I am faced with a decision to 1) rework both sides of the form, 2) bu=yone of the more economical forms that require some work or 3) spend a lit=tlebit of money for some good forms. I'm leaning towards fixing mine but wa=nta little information. First question: I've picked up on the list that the $350 +/- forms you c=anbuy require a little fine tuning and work but I don't recall hearing anyo=nesay what needs to be adjusted and how. This may be the quickest way to g=etback in production. Second question: To fix my forms I plan to take a vixen file to the topsurfaces again and then slowly rework the bevel. I figure I need to take=atleast .005 off the top maybe more. Does anyone have any advice. The disappointment is that I had hoped to have my first rod completed by =SRGbut, based on how many hours I've already got in the form, it I wonder if=Ican be finished by the next Grayrock. What the heck! The goal of the fi=rstrod was to learn the process and to learn how to use the tools. Fortunat=elyI am leaving myself plenty of room for improvement. ThanksTim tim, i takeit=your forms are steel(?). if your tip groove is too deep and your but gro=ove is as you say ,the wrong angle,i would think a simple and economical =fix would be to take the forms apart and take them to a good machine shop=preferrably one that has a surface grinder . tell the machinist to to ta=ke .005 or so off the inside faces of the form( the faces that face each =other when the form is together). this will solve both problems with on o=peration. it will make the tip groove shallower and will remove enought s=tock from the butt groove side to allow you to re-file the butt groove at=home.it shouldn't cost very much either. it could also be done with a mi=lling machine. also if you have an automotive machine shop in the area th= Tim Wilhelm Sent:Satur= bject: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make =the butt section of my first rod and I am fairly certain Ihaven't got= myproce=ss also but this seems to be one of the may causes of myaccuracyprob= llertriangle file down it trying to take a minimum of material off ea= urned the form over and started to set theform for the tip section an= ain lowering the depth of the bevel and then touch up the bevel.S= ) buyone of the more economical forms that require some work or 3)sp= ds fixing mine but wanta little information.First question:&n=bsp; I've picked up on the list that the $350 +/- forms you canbuy re=quire a little fine tuning and work but I don't recall hearing anyone= way= fo=rms I plan to take a vixen file to the topsurfaces again and then slo= disappo=intment is that I had hoped to have my first rod completed by SRGbut,= go=al of the firstrod was to learn the process and to learn how to use t= rovement.ThanksTim from rjwlawed@msn.com Sat Jul 21 19:31:41 2001 f6M0VeZ05668 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:31:32 -0700 Subject: tip vibes.... FILETIME=[A81730A0:01C11245] hey claude , i never thought about that. i don't feel so bad now. lol ! hey claude, i=never thought about that. i don't feel so bad now. lol ! from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sat Jul 21 19:47:47 2001 f6M0lkZ06097 Subject: Re: Utility Rod Tubes Darryl, I am also using PVC rod cases for my own fishing use. They sell PVC joint, cap, a pair of threaded joint and threaded cap in Japan thread.A just fit rubber ring insert is attached for shutting out air flow (andmoisture) between threaded joint and cap.It takes just a few minutes to set up a rod case using those components withpipe cutter and glue. sometimes. PVC will shut out in-out flow of air completely, so usually I am keeping arod inside PVC with cap opened. 50cm dia rod case is very useful to carry 2~3 (2pieces) rods to carry. Max from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jul 21 19:48:35 2001 f6M0mYZ06213 Subject: Springfield,Illinois List,Does anyone live in Springfield or close to there? I have a chance to fly down there tomorrow from So. Bend, Indiana in a B25 Mitchell W.W.II bomber and need a ride from the airport and possibly a place to crash for one night. Bret List, to fly down there tomorrow from So. Bend, Indiana in a B25 Mitchell W.W.IIbomber and need a ride from the airport and possibly a place to crash for onenight. Bret from rextutor@about.com Sat Jul 21 20:08:05 2001 f6M184Z07082 (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: Utility Rod Tubes I see tubes on that site for 25 ,37 and 28but nothing at 15. You sureof the price ?Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sat Jul 21 20:17:40 2001 f6M1HdZ07675 Subject: Re: Milward on nodeless construction Bob et al, As for the nodeless rods, he says (brief recap):Nodes reduce stiffness by 7%With staggering the benefits in increased stiffness is about 3.5% for butts, and 2.6% for tips for nodeless over traditionally noded rods.. This is quite opposite to my understanding of node stiffness.I thought that node portion is stiffer than internodal portion. Curiousity is how nodeless constructed blank can increase stiffness? Does someone explain it for me? Will gluing scarfs increase stiffness?Or am I confusing between stiffness(flexural rigidity) and elasticity? Milward book looks very interesting.Where can I purchase the book? Max from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 20:24:49 2001 f6M1OmZ08230 SAA22746; Subject: Re: Utility Rod Tubes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Rex, I emailed them asking the price for a standard tube. And that's what =they told me. It was around $15.75, something like that. I am getting =ready to order some. Adam Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 6:13 PMSubject: Re: Re: Utility Rod Tubes sureof the price ? Rex, I emailed them asking the price for a = tube. And that's what they told me. It was around $15.75, something like = am getting ready to order some. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Rex= Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 = PMSubject: Re: Re: Utility Rod =Tubes I see tubes on that site for 25 ,37 and 28 but = 15. You sureof the price =?Sign up for a free About Email account at = = from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 21 20:51:51 2001 f6M1ppZ09278 SAA16062 Subject: glass ferrule SCOTT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Has any one seen the glass ferrule Mario Wojnicki is putting on the =bamboo rods for Scott? Adam Vigil Has any one seen the glass ferrule = is putting on the bamboo rods for Scott? AdamVigil from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 21 21:34:03 2001 f6M2Y2Z10001 ,, Subject: Re: Utility Rod Tubes --=====================_8526952==_.ALT Ask for a catalog, the prices are really nice.Bob At 06:27 PM 7/21/2001 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:Rex, I emailed them asking the price for a standard tube. And that's what they told me. It was around $15.75, something like that. I am getting ready to order some. Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Rex Tutor dnhayashida@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 6:13 PMSubject: Re: Re: Utility Rod TubesI see tubes on that site for 25 ,37 and 28 but nothing at 15. Yousureof the price ? Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com --=====================_8526952==_.ALT Ask for a catalog, the prices are really nice.BobAt 06:27 PM 7/21/2001 - 0700, Adam Vigil wrote:Rex, I emailed them asking the price for a standardtube. And that's what they told me. It was around $15.75, something likethat. I am getting ready to order some. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- From: Rex Tutor atlasc1@earthlink.net ; dnhayashida@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 6:13 PMSubject: Re: Re: Utility Rod Tubes I see tubes on that site for 25 ,37 and 28 but nothing at 15. You sureof the price ? Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com --=====================_8526952==_.ALT-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Jul 21 22:27:08 2001 f6M3R8Z10749 Subject: Re: Removing Enamel Hi Chad,I am a little different. I take the enamel off first. I use scrapers and sandpaper. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 04:24 PM 7/21/01 -0700, chad wigham wrote:Being new to the process of building cane rods, would like to get feedback on removing enamel; how , when, scrapers, files, sanding...etc. Thanks,Chad from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 21 22:31:23 2001 f6M3VMZ11043 21Jul 2001 23:31:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Removing Enamel Chad:I like the triangular scrapers for this. They work very nice, although with the Milward books data, I will be just lightly sanding the quads and leaving a bit rounder than normal.Bob At 11:28 PM 7/21/2001 -0500, you wrote:Hi Chad,I am a little different. I take the enamel off first. I use scrapers and sandpaper. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 04:24 PM 7/21/01 -0700, chad wigham wrote:Being new to the process of building cane rods, would like to get feedback on removing enamel; how , when, scrapers, files, sanding...etc. Thanks, Chad from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 21 22:35:59 2001 f6M3ZwZ11295 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:29:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Removing Enamel Onis,You're not so different. I take the enamel completely off after heattreating and before final planing. I make a couple of passes with the LNScraper, then use the finest SuprSander plate for about six or eight passes.Then I make about 4 passes with 400grit sandpaper. Harry Onis Cogburn wrote: Hi Chad,I am a little different. I take the enamel off first. I use scrapers andsandpaper. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from setissma@email.msn.com Sat Jul 21 22:40:26 2001 f6M3ePZ11552 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:40:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make FILETIME=[08C01150:01C11260] Tim: I went through this several times. I think that you have two choices: 1. Fix your forms. The difficult part is cutting the 60 degree bevel thatincreases in depth at a rate of 1/1000 of an inch per inch. Glue atriangular file to a piece of wood or plastic and use that to cut. There area number of jigs in the rodmaking books that you might want to try. I didmine by hand after starting the initial bevel by laying the file against ablock of wood cut on a table saw at 60 degrees. At this point, just get theslope and bevel correct and do not worry about the initial depth. Once thegroove is cut with correct bevel and slope, THEN take them to a machineshop withthe correct starting depth. That way you only pay for one surface grind. Ilearned this the hard way by having them ground first, and they needed to goback again. 2. My homemade forms work just fine, but I came into a bit of money and gota set of Bellinger forms from Golden Witch. They are worth every penny. thetruth is I can get much closer to the exact taper I am trying to plane withthe Bellingers, they are easier to adjust, and they stay where I set them. Ilike the extra length, and the weight. It is a question of time vs. money. For me, I was at a point where I wantedto stop making equipment, and start making rods. I put my entire shoptogether on a shoestring budget, and it took a year and a half to getstarted. I knew that I needed a month to tune up my forms (again), and wasconcerned that I would end up with something that was not as accurate as Ifelt was needed for the rods I wanted to build. And then I found a buyer formy old minivan. Jeff Schaeffer from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sun Jul 22 02:37:25 2001 f6M7bNZ17540 (149.225.124.130) Subject: Millward on Garrison Stress Curves But what about the caster? Every rod could possibly be made to a setstandard butit would still function differently in each fishermans hands, dependingon hisstyle of casting!! I talked to an Austrian master builder a while back and his advice wasto perfectones own casting style and then build rods to fit your style, only thencan youknow what you are doing when you change a taper. Sounds good butobviously he was speaking as a man who has almost 50 years rodmakingunder his belt!!! But I think there is an great truth in there. How can we build rods forotherpeople, without seeing them cast first, without studying the forces thattheyexcert on a flyrod whilst casting?Should we be attempting to build different rods for those who cannotcast well and And most importantly should we tell them........."I think I'll build youa badcasters taper". Stuart from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jul 22 04:12:53 2001 f6M9CnZ19274 Subject: Re: Utility Rod Tubes once you get over the fittings part of PVC pipe for rod tubes you can makethemlook bloody nice by making a tight fitting canvas sleeve to go over it. I haveone that uses a fitted leather cap with a saddle bag type leather strap tokeepit closed and a leather shoulder strap as per a rifle sling. I kow some of thepeople who've seen it think it looks pretty nice. Tony At 05:03 PM 7/21/01 -0400, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: One of the problems I have in making rods is a shortage of rod tubes. Iwould like to avoid the cost of buying a store bought aluminum or cloth covered plastic rod tube, and frankly I don't like metal rod tubes because theydent and get scratched up. The cloth covered ones are okay, but again the cost, and I can't always find the size I need (can't find the right size for my 5 foot 3 piece backpacking rod). I started thinking about PVC pipe. After looking over how I might make arod tube from PVC pipe, I decided I didn't like all the adapters and glue on fittings you have to put on the end to use a threaded cap or plug. So the next step was directly threading the end of the pipe. Pipe threading diesare expensive, but eBay has quite a few up for auction at a fraction of a newdie price. After a 2 weeks I have a set of pipe threading dies, so I go atit. I find the teeth dig in and catch, and chip off pieces of the edge of thepipe. A few emails and internet searches, I find that there are PVC pipethreading teeth for the dies I bought (a Ridgid 12R), so I get a set of them. The end result - 74 cents each for threaded end caps, $3.50 for 10 feet of PVCpipe, cut it to size, thread the ends, and I have a durable, strong rod tube. PVC pipe doesn't dent, if it gets scratched up, who cares? its only a couple dollars of PVC pipe. 1 1/2 inch PVC pipe is the best size. 1 1/4 is alittle too small, you can only get a handle section and one tip inside, and 2 inch is getting too bulky and heavy. Don't get me wrong, I admire the hex wood rod cases, I even have onemyself made out of cherry wood that Ron Barch made, But I hate taking it fishing with me because it can get dinged up or scratched, and no way would youtake it on a hiking trip. Now I slide a rod into a piece of PVC pipe withthreaded caps on each end and toss it into the back of the van. If someone islooking to rip off a few rods from your parked car while you are off fishing, a few pieces of plastic pipe is very inconspicuous. Definitely not for show, but great for going fishing. They float too! Darryl /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from rjwlawed@msn.com Sun Jul 22 06:47:28 2001 f6MBlRZ20548 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:47:23 -0700 Subject: pvc rod tubes. FILETIME=[1246F060:01C112A4] guys, the fittings can be made to look pretty nice with only a few minute=s on a lathe. i taper the end caps to almost nothing where they meet the =tube and onlt about 1/2 thickness at the other end. you can also reduce t=he sticky feeling in the threads a little by just toucing the tips of the=threads on the cap and fitting with some fine sandpaper. after they are =shaped just shoot them with clear laquer. i did one with silver and clear=over it and it looks pretty much like an aluminum tube.my next one i'm going to try wraping some oak door skin venneer on th=e tube and spray the tapered caps a color that matches the wraps on the r=od.once you sand the glaze off the pvc, contact or even eoxy sticks to th=em real good. guys, thefitt=ings can be made to look pretty nice with only a few minutes on a lathe. =i taper the end caps to almost nothing where they meet the tube and onlt =about 1/2 thickness at the other end. you can also reduce the sticky feel=ing in the threads a little by just toucing the tips of the threads on th=e cap and fitting with some fine sandpaper. after they are shaped just sh=oot them with clear laquer. i did one with silver and clear over it and i= nex= be and spray the tapered caps a color that matches the wraps on the rod.o=nce you sand the glaze off the pvc, contact or even eoxy sticks to them r=eal good. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jul 22 07:12:33 2001 f6MCCWZ21065 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Friends, Sounds like a lot of work to me, especially when nicealuminum tubes can be purchased for $15-$18 each fromLandmark Components Co. I buy all of my tubes in 48"lengths, w/o the bottom installed. Then I cut them to fitexactly, and install the bottoms. Though I don't quiteunderstand why, aluminum tubes are considered the industrystandard. They are less durable than pvc, but clients stillexpect them. One of the dangers of making rods is the temptation todo every single thing the hardest, most time consuming waypossible. For instance, I can make my own snake guides fora rod in a few hours. When I'm finished, they still willnot look as nice as those I can buy for $1 each. I can makea set of ferrules in a few hours, or buy them for $25-30.If my time is worth $10/hr. I have to really gear up forproduction in order to come out ahead. I'm not picking on you Ron, just explaining my owntendencies. The tubes you're describing sound interesting,and I'd love to see them. Harry Ronald Ward wrote: guys, the fittings can be made to look pretty nice withonly a few minutes on a lathe. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rjwlawed@msn.com Sun Jul 22 08:45:02 2001 f6MDj1Z22543 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 06:44:56 -0700 Subject: pvc tubes FILETIME=[7E834570:01C112B4] hi harry,no" picking-on" taken . i know only too well that i'm one of those guy=s that will fall into that"make it yourself" pit way too easily. it seems=no matter what is being discussed the first thing that pops up in my min=d is "hmm, let's see........ if i take a router, and......". at my level =of "industry" the time taken to build something with as little out of poc=ket expenditure as possible, reguardless of time to produce it, is of lit=tle consequence to my profits. i assume there are a few guys on here in t=he same boat. if i ever get to the point that people are asking for my ro=ds, this old dog can change his thinking in a flash.i thought of making m=y own snakes and ferrules also,then slapped myself real hard, my cabinet =work has at least taught me that!!. the other part of the story is the la=ck of availibility of info at this stage. i have to find all those suppli=ers of things, such as the tubes you just mentioned. that little tid-bit = throw the question out on here and i'm sure i'd get good answers about su=ppliers,and i'm sure there will be plenty of questions about that stuff(w=here i live, a good flyshop has flies in little green bubble packages, a =good hatch means you've got chicken for the winter months, and fishing ho=t spots come at $2 a bottle, LOL), but at this time i've got plenty to to=do just to get to the point of needing to know where to get things.speaking of that "pit", i started building a beveller to prepare strip=s for heat treating that after heat treating, will also rough the splines=to within to within a few .000 of finished taper. it uses a laminate tri=mmer and two 30* bevelling bits on a swing arm that will follow a profile=form that is incorporated into a long sliding table that holds the splin=e along side it and passes under the cutter under head,with hand turned f=eed screw control.some what like the multi-head moulders that shape trim = to get pics and specs on here.it is all made out of standard dimension st=eel, aluminum and drillrod, with the only really necessary machine work b=eing grinding a pair of 45* carbide router bits to 30* so the cost doesn'=t get out of hand. hi one of those guys that will fall into that"make it yourself" pit way too=easily. it seems no matter what is being discussed the first thing that =pops up in my mind is "hmm, let's see........ if i take a router, and....=..". at my level of "industry" the time taken to build something with as =little out of pocket expenditure as possible, reguardless of time to prod=uce it, is of little consequence to my profits. i assume there are a few =guys on here in the same boat. if i ever get to the point that people are=asking for my rods, this old dog can change his thinking in a flash.i th=ought of making my own snakes and ferrules also,then slapped myself real =hard, my cabinet work has at least taught me that!!. the other part of th=e story is the lack of availibility of info at this stage. i have to find= . that little tid-bit by the way, got filed right away,thanks. i realize =all i'd have to do is throw the question out on here and i'm sure i'd get=good answers about suppliers,and i'm sure there will be plenty of questi=ons about that stuff(where i live, a good flyshop has flies in little gre=en bubble packages, a good hatch means you've got chicken for the winter =months, and fishing hot spots come at $2 a bottle, LOL), but at this time=i've got plenty to to do just to get to the point of needing to know whe= r heat treating, will also rough the splines to within to within a few .0=00 of finished taper. it uses a laminate trimmer and two 30* bevelling bi=ts on a swing arm that will follow a profile form that is incorporated in= es under the cutter under head,with hand turned feed screw control.somew=hat like the multi-head moulders that shape trim for houses, but on a muc=h smaller, simpler scale. when done i'll be sure to get pics and specs on= of hand. from iandmartin@ntlworld.com Sun Jul 22 09:09:32 2001 f6ME9UZ22889 +0100 Subject: Problems opening attachments on Listserve - Thanks Organization: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks to all who contacted me regarding the problems I was having. =Seems to have sorted itself now. Ian Martin (UK) Thanks to all who contacted me regarding the = was having. Seems to have sorted itself now. Ian Martin (UK) from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jul 22 09:18:48 2001 f6MEImZ23134 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Harry: Do you have the contact information for Landmark? Tried to find them onthenet but cannot. Thanks Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Friends, Sounds like a lot of work to me, especially when nicealuminum tubes can be purchased for $15-$18 each fromLandmark Components Co. I buy all of my tubes in 48"lengths, w/o the bottom installed. Then I cut them to fitexactly, and install the bottoms. Though I don't quiteunderstand why, aluminum tubes are considered the industrystandard. They are less durable than pvc, but clients stillexpect them. One of the dangers of making rods is the temptation todo every single thing the hardest, most time consuming waypossible. For instance, I can make my own snake guides fora rod in a few hours. When I'm finished, they still willnot look as nice as those I can buy for $1 each. I can makea set of ferrules in a few hours, or buy them for $25-30.If my time is worth $10/hr. I have to really gear up forproduction in order to come out ahead. I'm not picking on you Ron, just explaining my owntendencies. The tubes you're describing sound interesting,and I'd love to see them. Harry Ronald Ward wrote: guys, the fittings can be made to look pretty nice withonly a few minutes on a lathe. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jul 22 09:19:56 2001 f6MEJtZ23204 Subject: Taper Needed Bob: Would you export your Quadra 18 taper again from your database and emailtome so I can import it here? Thanks Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Removing Enamel Chad:I like the triangular scrapers for this. They work very nice, althoughwiththe Milward books data, I will be just lightly sanding the quads andleaving a bit rounder than normal.Bob At 11:28 PM 7/21/2001 -0500, you wrote:Hi Chad,I am a little different. I take the enamel off first. I use scrapersandsandpaper. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 04:24 PM 7/21/01 -0700, chad wigham wrote:Being new to the process of building cane rods, would like to getfeedback on removing enamel; how , when, scrapers, files, sanding...etc.Thanks, Chad from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jul 22 09:31:45 2001 f6MEViZ23713 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Joe,You can find there cases for sale at http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bingham/rodbag.htmlBest regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bamboo Joe wrote: Harry: Do you have the contact information for Landmark? Tried to find them onthenet but cannot. Thanks Joe from homes-sold@home.com Sun Jul 22 10:30:40 2001 f6MFUdZ24509 femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: 4 string binder This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm building a new 4 string binder and in need of a source for heavy =duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in the Seattle area but =at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don I'm building a new 4 string binder and = source for heavy duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in the = area but at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don from rjwlawed@msn.com Sun Jul 22 10:33:48 2001 f6MFXlZ24673 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 08:33:43 -0700 Subject: beveller FILETIME=[B0A153D0:01C112C3] that's a good idea harry, i've seen his beveller somewhere on the net, b=ut had a hard time making out details due to small pics. i'would like to =talk to him . good idea harry, i've seen his beveller somewhere on the net, but had a =hard time making out details due to small pics. i'would like to talk to h=im . from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jul 22 10:34:29 2001 f6MFYSZ24724 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Sure Jim,Landmark Component Co., Inc.Ph 1-888-779- 4855Landmarktube@juno.com Great folks to deal with, and no, I have no financial interest, but tell'em I sent you. Harry Jim & Sallyann Freeman wrote: Harry, Do you have an address or phone number for these folks? Maybe awebsite? Ireally don't want to set up to turn rod tubes at this time, and this may bean answer. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Jul 22 10:36:53 2001 f6MFapZ24891 IAA16995; Subject: Re: 4 string binder This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Don, Did you see the plans in Milliards Book for the binder? He uses bolt =spring and washers. Mounted on a I bracket. If you want I could send you =a picture. Best Regards, Adam Vigil Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:37 AMSubject: 4 string binder I'm building a new 4 string binder and in need of a source for heavy =duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in the Seattle area but =at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don Don, Did you see the plans in Milliards Book = binder? He uses bolt spring and washers. Mounted on a I bracket. If you = could send you a picture. Best Regards, Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 =8:37 AMSubject: 4 string binder I'm building a new 4 string binder = a source for heavy duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in = Seattle area but at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don from rjwlawed@msn.com Sun Jul 22 10:45:03 2001 f6MFj3Z25518 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 08:44:59 -0700 Subject: tensioners FILETIME=[4364C7A0:01C112C5] don,a pair of brass or chromed finish washers with the right spring from t=he hardware store on a bolt will work really good. the finish washers are=shaped the same as the tension washers and come in several sizes. just g=et a bolt that fits the hole closely and you have essentially the exact =same thing. pring from the hardware store on a bolt will work really good. the finish=washers are shaped the same as the tension washers and come in severals= tially the exact same thing. from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 22 10:53:19 2001 f6MFrIZ25823 Subject: Re: Taper Needed I just sent you all the quad tapers (about 8) and you should see them in a BAS file called "AllQuads." The TDE is working pretty well from what I can tell.Bob At 10:18 AM 7/22/2001 -0400, Bamboo Joe wrote:Bob: Would you export your Quadra 18 taper again from your database and emailtome so I can import it here? Thanks Joe from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 22 10:57:32 2001 f6MFvVZ26241 Subject: Re: tensioners I think Jeff Wagner has nice tensioners.Bob At 10:44 AM 7/22/2001 -0500, Ronald Ward wrote:don,a pair of brass or chromed finish washers with the right spring from the hardware store on a bolt will work really good. the finish washers are shaped the same as the tension washers and come in several sizes. just get a bolt that fits the hole closely and you have essentially the exact same thing. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jul 22 11:09:58 2001 f6MG9uZ26782 Subject: Re: tensioners Wot???? At 11:57 AM 7/22/01 -0400, Downandacross Rods wrote:I think Jeff Wagner has nice tensioners.Bob At 10:44 AM 7/22/2001 -0500, Ronald Ward wrote:don,a pair of brass or chromed finish washers with the right spring from the hardware store on a bolt will work really good. the finish washers are shaped the same as the tension washers and come in several sizes. just get a bolt that fits the hole closely and you have essentially the exact same thing. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from martinj@aa.net Sun Jul 22 11:28:13 2001 f6MGSCZ27207 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:28:05 -0700 Subject: RE: tensioners This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Can you tell me where to find those springs that you are talking about?I have looked all over Seattle and could not find proper ones. Homedepot, Lowe's, Eagle, Tacoma supply , local small hardware stores. Idon't think that they are as easy to find as you think. I went to Sewingmachine stores. I actually could buy them there but at a exorbitantprice ($50.00 ea.)I finally bought tensioners from Anglers Workshop. I think they were 5or 7$ at the time. They work great! All the other parts, no sweat.Springs, uh uh. -----Original Message----- Subject: tensioners don,a pair of brass or chromed finish washers with the right spring fromthe hardware store on a bolt will work really good. the finish washersare shaped the same as the tension washers and come in several sizes.just get a bolt that fits the hole closely and you have essentially theexact same thing. CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband- size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style- parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para- margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font- family:"Times New Roman";} Can you tell me where to find thosesprings that you are talking about? I have looked all over =Seattle and could not find proper ones. Home depot, Lowe’s, =Eagle, Tacoma supply , local small hardware =stores…I don’t think that they are as easy to find as you think. I went =toSewing machine stores. I actually could buy them there but at a exorbitant price ($50.00 =ea.) I finally bought tensioners from =Anglers Workshop.I think they were 5 or 7$ at the time. They work great! All -----Original =Message-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Sunday, July 22, =2001 8:45AM Subject: =tensioners don, washerswith the right spring from the hardware store on a bolt will work really =good.the finish washers are shaped the same as the tension washers and come =in haveessentially the exact same thing. from oandc@msn.com Sun Jul 22 12:04:59 2001 f6MH4wZ27821 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:45:40 -0700 Subject: Filing Jig FILETIME=[BE0C5740:01C112CD] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Has anyone come up with a workable jig for filing forms? It has occured =to me that it would be very easy to file more off one side than another =as well as altering the angle. I checked the archives with no results. =Thanks,Wayne Has anyone come up with a workable jig= forms? It has occured to me that it would be very easy to file more off = than another as well as altering the angle. I checked the archives with = results. Thanks,Wayne from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Jul 22 13:03:35 2001 f6MI3YZ28911 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. You are right about someone buying a rod expects an aluminum tube, and I usually include one with a rod that I sell. I just started making PVC tubes, and I am thinking of including a PVC tube with the aluminum tube when I sell a rod. That way they can leave the aluminum tube at home and go fishingwith the rod in the PVC tube. All the posts about cheap rod tubes are nice, but did you notice in my first post how much a rod tube costs me now? About$2.00Darryl In a message dated 7/22/01 5:12:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes:Sounds like a lot of work to me, especially when nicealuminum tubes can be purchased for $15-$18 each fromLandmark Components Co. I buy all of my tubes in 48"lengths, w/o the bottom installed. Then I cut them to fitexactly, and install the bottoms. Though I don't quiteunderstand why, aluminum tubes are considered the industrystandard. They are less durable than pvc, but clients stillexpect them. You are right about someone buying a rod expects an aluminum tube,and I usually include one with a rod that I sell. I just started making PVCtubes, and I am thinking of including a PVC tube with the aluminum tube when Isell a rod. That way they can leave the aluminum tube at home and gofishing with the rod in the PVC tube. All the posts about cheap rod tubes are nice,but did you notice in my first post how much a rod tube costs me now?About $2.00Darryl In a message dated 7/22/01 5:12:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: nicealuminum tubes can be purchased for $15-$18 each from understand why, aluminum tubes are considered the industry expect them. from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Jul 22 13:59:16 2001 f6MIxFZ00386 Subject: Utility Rod Tubes II I've got a 5' one piece rod. I've had a little bit of a dilemma when I want to take it out to the backcountry streams I used to hike to. Carrying it without a tube for protection when scrambling over rocks or busting through brush was a little risky. Taking the tube with me was great (using it like a hiking staff.), but it was aluminum, that's where I developed the dislike of dented rod tubes, and then lugging around a 5' long tube and trying to fish was the pits. The solution I just tried was making a 5' long PVC rod tube, cutting it into 3 pieces, using 2 threaded connectors and threading the ends of the piecesof pipe. Now when I get to the stream, I can take the tube apart and put it into my day pack. Neat! Darryl I'vegot a 5' one piece rod. I've had a little bit of a dilemma when I want to take it out to the backcountry streams I used to hike to. Carrying it without a tube for protection when scrambling over rocks or bustingthrough brush was a little risky. Taking the tube with me was great (using it likea hiking staff.), but it was aluminum, that's where I developed the dislikeof dented rod tubes, and then lugging around a 5' long tube and trying tofish was the pits. The solution I just tried was making a 5' long PVC rod tube, cutting itinto 3 pieces, using 2 threaded connectors and threading the ends of thepieces of pipe. Now when I get to the stream, I can take the tube apart and put itinto my day pack. Neat! Darryl from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jul 22 13:59:23 2001 f6MIxMZ00403 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 22 Jul 2001 13:25:29 -0500 Subject: Fw: Filing Jig This is a multi-part message in MIME format. If you draw file the flats before you start the groove, then your =groove will be true to the tops of your forms... in other words, if you =do get a hair more off of one side than you do the other, if you file =your groove true to the filed or milled surface, then it still produces =perfect 60's... another hint for those that haven't run into it yet... =if you draw file the top of your forms to get cuts, gouges, etc., out of =them OR if you buy a set where the surfaces are NOT true (cheaper sets =are that way sometimes), then be sure to use a triangle file on a block =to true your groove... it's really easy to get one side lower than the =other, and if you just go ahead and use them that way, then you'll get ="out of whack" strips. later,Bob Has anyone come up with a workable jig for filing forms? It has occured =to me that it would be very easy to file >more off one side than another =as well as altering the angle. I checked the archives with no results. Wayne, = the groove, then your groove will be true to the tops of your forms... = words, if you do get a hair more off of one side than you do the other, = file your groove true to the filed or milled surface, then it still = perfect 60's... another hint for those that haven't run into it yet... = draw file the top of your forms to get cuts, gouges, etc., out of them = buy a set where the surfaces are NOT true (cheaper sets are that way = then be sure to use a triangle file on a block to true your groove... = really easy to get one side lower than the other, and if you just go = use them that way, then you'll get "out of whack" strips. later,Bob workable = filing forms? It has occured to me that it would be very easy to file = off one side than another as well as altering the angle. I checked the = with no results. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jul 22 14:08:37 2001 f6MJ8aZ01089 Subject: Re: Taper Needed Bob: They got here and imported flawlessly. I made that change yourecommended,and have fixed one glitch on import (the inserting of one record "NAME"). Iwill email you privately about it. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Taper Needed I just sent you all the quad tapers (about 8) and you should see them in aBAS file called "AllQuads." The TDE is working pretty well from what I cantell.Bob At 10:18 AM 7/22/2001 -0400, Bamboo Joe wrote:Bob: Would you export your Quadra 18 taper again from your database andemailtome so I can import it here? Thanks Joe from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Jul 22 14:16:00 2001 f6MJG0Z01503 Subject: Re: Utility Rod Tubes II Another thing I just found out with my take apart rod tube. I also have three different lengths of rod tube depending on how many sections I use.Darryl Another thing I just found out with my take apart rod tube. I alsohave three different lengths of rod tube depending on how many sections I use.Darryl from dryfly@erols.com Sun Jul 22 15:04:40 2001 f6MK4eZ03380 ([208.58.197.227] helo=homeserver) Subject: Bob Nunley for President This is a multi-part message in MIME format. To all: I just got in from splitting a culm and as opposed to the tried and true =method I've used in the past, I tried the Bob Nunley splitting method. =What an easy and effective way to split. I didn't have any run out =splits and not once did I feel that the cane got out of my control. =Therefore, Bob Nunley is my new hero and nomination for the next =president. Thanks Bob for sharing your splitting method in Powerfibers. =I'd also like to thank Tom Smithwick for his endorsement of Bob's =method and encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams To all: I just got in from splitting a culm and = to the tried and true method I've used in the past, I tried the Bob = of Bob's method and encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Jul 22 15:24:05 2001 f6MKO4Z03731 NAA10778; Subject: Re: Bob Nunley for President This is a multi-part message in MIME format. What? Bob is not president? I could of sworn I voted for him in the last =election (florida ballot)....LOL. Just kidding I am a California Boy. =Splitting cane the Nunley way has worked fine for me also. Adam Vigil Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 1:05 PMSubject: Bob Nunley for President To all: I just got in from splitting a culm and as opposed to the tried and =true method I've used in the past, I tried the Bob Nunley splitting =method. What an easy and effective way to split. I didn't have any run =out splits and not once did I feel that the cane got out of my control. =Therefore, Bob Nunley is my new hero and nomination for the next =president. Thanks Bob for sharing your splitting method in Powerfibers. =I'd also like to thank Tom Smithwick for his endorsement of Bob's =method and encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams What? Bob is not president? I could of sworn = him in the last election (florida ballot)....LOL. Just kidding I am a = Boy. Splitting cane the Nunley way has worked fine for me =also. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Bob = = Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 =1:05 PMSubject: Bob Nunley for =President To all: I just got in from splitting a culm = opposed to the tried and true method I've used in the past, I tried = endorsement of Bob's method and encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams from partrick@intrex.net Sun Jul 22 15:36:12 2001 f6MKaBZ04357 Subject: Tubes Aluminum tubes don't like traveling in aircraft luggage compartments...Several of my tubes are dented, bent and I don't know what all fromtraveling with me... You guys have given me a great idea... a PVC tube thatfits over the Al tube for traveling... especially on transoceanic flights... Keep the info discussions up... Jerry Partrick from martinj@aa.net Sun Jul 22 15:38:46 2001 f6MKcjZ04562 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 13:38:43 -0700 Subject: RE: Bob Nunley for President This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I hate to jump on the band wagon but splitting into half's by handreally allows you to control the split. It is the only method ofsplitting that I feel I have some control over and can now split asection in two that I would have left before (for being afraid ofruining it!) PS: I didn't even see the article but "did" hear about this method onthis group and I too straddle the culm. Just seems like the natural wayto control the splitting. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bob Nunley for President What? Bob is not president? I could of sworn I voted for him in the lastelection (florida ballot)....LOL. Just kidding I am a California Boy.Splitting cane the Nunley way has worked fine for me also. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bob Nunley for President To all: I just got in from splitting a culm and as opposed to the tried and truemethod I've used in the past, I tried the Bob Nunley splitting method.What an easy and effective way to split. I didn't have any run outsplits and not once did I feel that the cane got out of my control.Therefore, Bob Nunley is my new hero and nomination for the nextpresident. Thanks Bob for sharing your splitting method in Powerfibers.I'd also like to thank Tom Smithwick for his endorsement of Bob's methodand encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband- size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style- parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para- margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font- family:"Times New Roman";} I hate to jump on the band wagon =butsplitting into half’s by hand really allows you to control the =split. Itis the only method of splitting that I feel I have some control over and =cannow split a section in two that I would have left before (for being =afraid ofruining it!) PS: I didn’t even see the =articlebut “did” hear about this method on this group and I too =straddle theculm. Just seems like the natural way to control the =splitting. -----Original =Message-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Sunday, July 22, =2001 1:38PM Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bob Nunley =forPresident What? Bob is not president? I =could ofsworn I voted for him in the last election (florida ballot)....LOL. Justkidding I am a California Boy. Splitting cane the Nunley way has worked =fine Adam =Vigil ----- Original Message =----- From: Bob =Williams Sent: Sunday,July 22, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: Bob Nunley To =all: I just got in from =splitting a culmand as opposed to the tried and true method I've used in the past, I =tried the my new your Smithwick it. Thanks Bob =Williams from jojo@ipa.net Sun Jul 22 15:43:43 2001 f6MKhgZ04925 Subject: Re: 4 string binder This is a multi-part message in MIME format. The 4-string binder requires much less tension than you might imagine. =The tensioners do help to insure even thread tension on all four =threads. Using the spring under the washer trick makes getting an even =thread tension a problem. One thread on the leading head doesn't have to =be off much to induce a twist. M-D I'm building a new 4 string binder and in need of a source for heavy =duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in the Seattle area but =at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don The 4-string binder = less tension than you might imagine. The tensioners do help to insure = thread tension on all four threads. Using the spring under the washer = makes getting an even thread tension a problem. One thread on the = doesn't have to be off much to induce a twist. M-D Don = Schneider I'm building a new 4 string binder = a source for heavy duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in = Seattle area but at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Jul 22 15:48:35 2001 f6MKmYZ05233 +0200 Subject: Al Medveds e-mail address This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Can somebody inform me ifAl Medved has an e-mail address? regards, carsten jorgensen ifAl Medved has an e-mail =address? regards, carsten =jorgensen from rsgould@cmc.net Sun Jul 22 16:24:32 2001 f6MLOVZ05792 Subject: Re: 4 string binder This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'd recommend you try sewing machine repair shops. They have thread =tension devices left over from old sewing machines.Ray Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 8:37 AMSubject: 4 string binder I'm building a new 4 string binder and in need of a source for heavy =duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in the Seattle area but =at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don I'd recommend you try sewing machine= machines.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 =8:37 AMSubject: 4 string binder I'm building a new 4 string binder = a source for heavy duty thread tensioners. Would like to find them in = Seattle area but at this point anywhere would be fine.Thanks in advance.Don from rjwlawed@msn.com Sun Jul 22 16:40:39 2001 f6MLedZ06217 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:40:35 -0700 Subject: tensioners FILETIME=[F09D4CE0:01C112F6] hi martin,just about any light compression spring will do the job. i get mine fr=om ace hrdwr. they have quite an assortment and i live in a town of 10,00=0 people. they don't have to be the helcal wound type, just a straight co=mpression. if the first set you get doesn't have enough snort, just get t=he next size stronger and back the adj'nt nut off accordingly. hi job. i get mine from ace hrdwr. they have quite an assortment and i live =in a town of 10,000 people. they don't have to be the helcal wound type, =just a straight compression. if the first set you get doesn't have enough=snort, just get the next size stronger and back the adj'nt nut off accor=dingly. from Kengorific@aol.com Sun Jul 22 16:58:26 2001 f6MLwQZ06563 Subject: taper recomendations I am getting ready to start my second cane rod and am looking for sometaper suggestions. I want a rod somewhere between 7'-6" and 8'-6" that wouldthrow a 4wt double taper line. I will use this rod on small pocket water, casting size 18-22 dry flies. I am thinking of building this one as a quad, so I would probaly be converting and hex dimensions. Any one out there have a favorite taper in this catagory?Thanks in advance, Ken from Kengorific@aol.com Sun Jul 22 17:16:35 2001 f6MMGYZ06995 Subject: medium cost ferrules As a novice rod maker I face a delema trying to balance the cost ofcomponets with the quality and usefullness of my first few rods. For grips, reel seats, snake guides and strippers I seem to be able to find a range of cost and quality. Ferrules however are a challange, all I can find are the $3.00 nickel plated brass or the $40.00 nickel silver. Is there something out there in a price and quality range somewhere between 'made in Taiwan' and 'made in Switzerland'. The nickel silver ones are clearly worth the bucks, but at 40-50 bucks a rod I am going to be limited to how many rods I can 'practice' on before I go broke. (I am not interested in selling rods, even to fund this hobby) It's hard to justify so much money for a rod that I might not even like when its finished. Once I find a taper that I enjoy, and my planing, node straightening and finishing skills improve, I will be happy to spend some cash for some REC or Super Z nickel silver. from channer@frontier.net Sun Jul 22 17:25:28 2001 f6MMPRZ07321 Subject: Re: pvc tubes Ronald;Grizzly has 30d router bits, not very expensive at that. John from channer@frontier.net Sun Jul 22 17:36:21 2001 f6MMaKZ07682 Subject: Re: medium cost ferrules Ken;Go ahead and buy the good ones, mount them with hot melt ferrule cement,and if the rod doesn't turn out, just take them off. You can either makeup a grip on a mandrel, or use a ready made grip and just make it atight fit, don't glue it, then you can salvage it ,too , if necessary.Reel seat inserts can be glued to the cane at the very end with ferrulecement, before you mount the cap with the same ferrule cement. See, nowyou've got it all covered and everything can be mounted permantly laterif the rod turns out to be the best one you ever cast, or salvaged forall it's parts and junked if you have to.John Kengorific@aol.com wrote: As a novice rod maker I face a delema trying to balance the cost ofcomponetswith the quality and usefullness of my first few rods. For grips, reelseats, snake guides and strippers I seem to be able to find a range of costand quality. Ferrules however are a challange, all I can find are the $3.00 nickel platedbrass or the $40.00 nickel silver. Is there something out there in a priceand quality range somewhere between 'made in Taiwan' and 'made inSwitzerland'. The nickel silver ones are clearly worth the bucks, but at40- 50 bucks a rod I am going to be limited to how many rods I can'practice'on before I go broke. (I am not interested in selling rods, even to fundthis hobby) It's hard to justify so much money for a rod that I might noteven like when its finished. Once I find a taper that I enjoy, and myplaning, node straightening and finishing skills improve, I will be happy tospend some cash for some REC or Super Z nickel silver. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jul 22 17:59:49 2001 f6MMxmZ08428 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Reed,I put in that address and came up with a porn site. What's up with that?LOL.Bret Reed, with that?LOL.Bret from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 22 18:05:51 2001 f6MN5oZ08693 Subject: Re: Bob Nunley for President --=====================_82438720==_.ALT I second that motion for sure, but also because of the great quad tapers he Bob M. At 04:05 PM 7/22/2001 -0400, Bob Williams wrote:To all: I just got in from splitting a culm and as opposed to the tried and true method I've used in the past, I tried the Bob Nunley splitting method. What an easy and effective way to split. I didn't have any run out splits and not once did I feel that the cane got out of my control. Therefore, Bob Nunley is my new hero and nomination for the next president. Thanks Bob for sharing your splitting method in Powerfibers. I'd also like to thank Tom Smithwick for his endorsement of Bob's method and encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams --=====================_82438720==_.ALT I second that motion for sure, but also because of the great quad tapershe sent me a while back!Bob M.At 04:05 PM 7/22/2001 -0400, Bob Williams wrote:Toall: I just got in from splitting a culm and asopposed to the tried and true method I've used in the past, I tried the thank Tom Smithwick for his endorsement of Bob's method andencoragementto try it. ThanksBob Williams --=====================_82438720==_.ALT-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jul 22 18:11:37 2001 f6MNBaZ08944 Subject: Re: Bob Nunley for President Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Heck all this time I thought he was the President. OH well he could probably do a better job than any of the a--holes we have had in the last few years. could probably do a better job than any of the a--holes we have had in the last fewyears. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jul 22 18:13:27 2001 f6MNDQZ09174 Subject: Re: Bob Nunley for President Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I met Nunley for the 1st time at Greyrock and cast a quad he had there. WHAT A CANON. His other rods were incredible too. I am having a blast with his 5' 2 wght rod that I built. I will be building his bonefish rod for my trip to the Keys next winter.Bret I met Nunley for the 1st time at Greyrock and cast a quad he had blast with his trip to the Keys next winter.Bret from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Jul 22 18:44:26 2001 f6MNiQZ09801 Subject: Re: Bob Nunley for President This is a multi-part message in MIME format. BobThe first thing you can do as president is let China keepkeep that plane and tell them to send Tonkin can back instead.:)) Now =that's a group order!We can split it up between the list. LOLThe way the military spends money, we just might have enough to last =till the year 2078 LOLTony Miller BobThe first thing you can do as president= China keepkeep that plane and tell them to send = back instead.:)) Now that's a group order! LOLThe way the military spends money, we= have enough to last till the year 2078 LOLTony Miller from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jul 22 19:15:48 2001 f6N0FlZ10265 Jul 2001 20:16:04 -0400 Subject: Taper Exchange --=====================_86637125==_.ALT Hi everyone:I have had several requests for quad tapers over the last week, while at the same time helping Joe Byrd test his new alpha version of the Bamboo Rodmakers Database Program. This new version allows friends to send each other tapers to add into the database. If you have used the old version before or not, you are going to love the new version when it hits the streets. I have no commercial interest in this and would not even have mentioned it other than seeing how much time this will save me in sharing and compiling tapers. It is something to think about when the program is ready to go. If a bunch of people got on board, we could really get things organized.If anyone has a really great proven taper, send it on to me and I will try to make sure it gets in the standard database for the new release. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_86637125==_.ALT Hi everyone:I have had several requests for quad tapers over the last week, while atthe same time helping Joe Byrd test his new alpha version of the BambooRodmakers Database Program. This new version allows friends to send eachother tapers to add into the database. If you have used the old versionbefore or not, you are going to love the new version when it hits the have mentioned it other than seeing how much time this will save me insharing and compiling tapers. It is something to think about when theprogram is ready to go. If a bunch of people got on board, we couldreally get things organized.If anyone has a really great proven taper, send it on to me and I willtry to make sure it gets in the standard database for the newrelease. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_86637125==_.ALT-- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Jul 22 19:25:51 2001 f6N0PpZ10546 RAA00415; Subject: Re: medium cost ferrules Ken, There is a book out that is new. It is by a man named Bob Milward. Now thisbook is not what is needed to get started in rod building. And in fact itmay confuse you if you read this before other books...BUT and this is a bigBUT, he has a section on making cheap brass ferrules. The supplies comefromany hobby shop. Instead of soldering you can actually you can use locktite.It may cost you $3 in ferrule making material, but you can use them forawhile and replace them later. It will give you what you want. Now when youare ready to dive in I might suggest trying Tony Young. He is a member ofthe list and can answer any of your questions. His website ishttp://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/avy.htm You can get the book fromBob Milwardfax 604-985-0860 or fromDarrell Leewww.vfish.net Best Regards, Adam Vigil Subject: medium cost ferrules As a novice rod maker I face a delema trying to balance the cost ofcomponetswith the quality and usefullness of my first few rods. For grips, reelseats, snake guides and strippers I seem to be able to find a range ofcostand quality. Ferrules however are a challange, all I can find are the $3.00 nickelplatedbrass or the $40.00 nickel silver. Is there something out there in apriceand quality range somewhere between 'made in Taiwan' and 'made inSwitzerland'. The nickel silver ones are clearly worth the bucks, but at40- 50 bucks a rod I am going to be limited to how many rods I can'practice'on before I go broke. (I am not interested in selling rods, even to fundthis hobby) It's hard to justify so much money for a rod that I might noteven like when its finished. Once I find a taper that I enjoy, and myplaning, node straightening and finishing skills improve, I will be happytospend some cash for some REC or Super Z nickel silver. from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jul 22 20:14:37 2001 f6N1EaZ11593 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:40:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Nunley for President This is a multi-part message in MIME format. No problem on sharing the method... but I don't want to be president =until they upgrade their criteria for hiring interns!!!!SERIOUSLY, Thank Wayne C. instead of me. Wayne is the one from whom =I learned the importance of sharing what we can about rodmaking. Wayne =is the one who got this strange notion of sharing our combined knowledge =with other rodmakers and with those aspiring to be makers, and rendering =obsolete the idea that making cane rods was Black Magic.... Thanks =Wayne! Later.... gotta go pick those splinters out of the inside of my thigh! BobR.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 3:05 PMSubject: Bob Nunley for President To all: I just got in from splitting a culm and as opposed to the tried and =true method I've used in the past, I tried the Bob Nunley splitting =method. What an easy and effective way to split. I didn't have any run =out splits and not once did I feel that the cane got out of my control. =Therefore, Bob Nunley is my new hero and nomination for the next =president. Thanks Bob for sharing your splitting method in Powerfibers. =I'd also like to thank Tom Smithwick for his endorsement of Bob's =method and encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams Guys, interns!!!! = this strange notion of sharing our combined knowledge with other = with those aspiring to be makers, and rendering obsolete the idea that = cane rods was Black Magic.... Thanks Wayne! Later.... gotta go pick those splinters out of the = my thigh! BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Bob = Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 =3:05 PMSubject: Bob Nunley for =President To all: I just got in from splitting a culm = opposed to the tried and true method I've used in the past, I tried = endorsement of Bob's method and encoragement to try it. ThanksBob Williams from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jul 22 22:31:59 2001 f6N3VwZ12830 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Bret,I don't understand that, it comes up with Landmark rod tubes for me.Are you sure you tried http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bingham/rodbag.html?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Reed,I put in that address and came up with a porn site. What's up with that?LOL.Bret -- from martinj@aa.net Sun Jul 22 22:40:09 2001 f6N3e8Z13150 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:40:04 -0700 Subject: RE: pvc rod tubes. He typed in angle instead of angel.... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Joe,You can find there cases for sale at http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bingham/rodbag.htmlBest regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bamboo Joe wrote: Harry: Do you have the contact information for Landmark? Tried to find themon thenet but cannot. Thanks Joe from ECKTOR_66@YAHOO.COM Sun Jul 22 23:14:53 2001 f6N4EqZ13614 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:14:53 PDT Subject: ammonia toning = brittle cane? I've run into problems with ammonia toning flamedsections. My test pieces are VERY brittle. I do notget the interlocking fibers post-toning... the testpieces snap in half at almost a clean break. Thenon-toned sections seem fine with the requisiteinterlocking of fibers. I've been trying out some test pieces of canesuspended in a small bottle with common householdammonia in the bottom. The cane is not actually *in*the ammonia solution, but suspended above it, and setout in the sun for a few hours (~5hrs, latest try).The pieces are cut down of my latest rod splines,which is a nodeless flamed rod. I was attempting to even out the color of the rodsince my joints were not what they should have beenand the joints are very visible dark vs light cane(this is my first attempt at a nodeless flamed rod). I'm curious if anyone has experience trying to ammoniatone a flamed rod. Any suggestions? The sections aren't that bad, I was just a bitdisappointed at the way the flamed joints look sincethey obviously weren't flush. Eck __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from ctn45555@centurytel.net Mon Jul 23 00:23:21 2001 f6N5NLZ14543 f6N5NKr09137 Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: a thank you to the list I just wanted to say thank you to all who have helped me through theprocess of making my first rod. I finally got the thing polished up andwent fishing today. I went to the particular stretch of stream I had inmind when planning the rod. It took me about 10 minutes to get settledinto the casting stroke (the rod is a PY midge) of the shorter rod andthe feel of bamboo. Up until today I have fished graphite and franklyhave never fished a bamboo rod. After a year in the making I was prettynervous but the rod performed past expectations. The short lengthallowed me to fish places I have not been able to get to previously, andI was absolutely amazed at the subtle presentations that this taper (andbamboo) allow. Like most people who have fished graphite for ages Iworried that the this little rod might be lacking in the powerdepartment. What I found was that although I do give up some distanceand power, my casting accuracy and presentation improved so much thatthis is not an issue, and in fact I acutally fished this water betterthan I ever have. I'm starting to ramble, but suffice it to say that thefish rose steadily for most of the day, and despite low waterconditions, I did well and had quite a day to remember. Again, many thanks to all who have helped, Chad S. Boyd from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 23 02:53:09 2001 f6N7r8Z17640 +0200 Subject: Sv: a thank you to the list f6N7r9Z17641 Congrats with Your rod.You just stick to them PHY tapers, and life will be good toYou, boy:-)) To the rest of the list: Nice work lads. Another fine youngman converted to the cane. regards, carsten jorgensen from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 06:25:04 2001 f6NBP3Z19340 23 Jul 2001 04:24:59 PDT Subject: Re: ammonia toning = brittle cane? eric, it seems to me that one would either ammoniatone or flame the rod. why would one do both? maybethe problem isn't the toning but the bamboo got toohot, too long while flaming and or cooking. did youput the bamboo in the oven also? timothy --- eric koehler wrote:I've run into problems with ammonia toning flamedsections. My test pieces are VERY brittle. I do notget the interlocking fibers post-toning... the testpieces snap in half at almost a clean break. Thenon-toned sections seem fine with the requisiteinterlocking of fibers. I've been trying out some test pieces of canesuspended in a small bottle with common householdammonia in the bottom. The cane is not actually*in*the ammonia solution, but suspended above it, andsetout in the sun for a few hours (~5hrs, latest try).The pieces are cut down of my latest rod splines,which is a nodeless flamed rod. I was attempting to even out the color of the rodsince my joints were not what they should have beenand the joints are very visible dark vs light cane(this is my first attempt at a nodeless flamed rod). I'm curious if anyone has experience trying toammoniatone a flamed rod. Any suggestions? The sections aren't that bad, I was just a bitdisappointed at the way the flamed joints look sincethey obviously weren't flush. Eck __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minutewith Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 23 07:15:57 2001 f6NCFuZ19908 Subject: Re: pvc rod tubes. Yeah, I have been trying to find the site Bret mentioned and cannot get it. Just something about tubes and rod bags. Oh well,Bob At 11:33 PM 7/22/2001 -0400, Reed Curry wrote:Bret,I don't understand that, it comes up with Landmark rod tubes for me. Are you sure you triedhttp://www.angelfire.com/ks/bingham/rodbag.html?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Reed,I put in that address and came up with a porn site. What's up with that?LOL.Bret -- from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 07:47:56 2001 f6NCltZ20466 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 05:47:54 PDT Subject: Dressing up PVC rod tubes All this talk to PVC rod tubes has gotten me thinking,has anyone tried taking the foam-core PVC (lighter PVCnot intended for the pressures of plumbing)and builtone of the six-sided wooden, rod tubes around it?Seems you would have the best of both worlds, dressyyet strong. One of the drawbacks to the all woodentubes I've read about is if anything happens to thetube it will take the rod with it. PVC reinforcementwould do away with that likelyhood. Just a thought. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from saweiss@flash.net Mon Jul 23 09:19:01 2001 f6NEJ0Z00792 Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Organization: Prodigy Internet One can also line a wooden case with a brass or aluminum tube.Steve All this talk to PVC rod tubes has gotten me thinking,has anyone tried taking the foam-core PVC (lighter PVCnot intended for the pressures of plumbing)and builtone of the six-sided wooden, rod tubes around it?Seems you would have the best of both worlds, dressyyet strong. One of the drawbacks to the all woodentubes I've read about is if anything happens to thetube it will take the rod with it. PVC reinforcementwould do away with that likelyhood. Just a thought. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from rjwlawed@msn.com Mon Jul 23 09:53:33 2001 f6NErWZ02278 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:53:26 -0700 Subject: pvc tubes FILETIME=[3ABAFC10:01C11387] guys,i just thought of this..... there is also a real thin- walled pvc tubing that is intended for "dr=ain- only" plumbing in residential construction. it has all the fittings =that regular pvc has, but it is only about 1/16+ thick in wall dimension.=i don't know the schedule #, but i've seen it in houses and it would wor=k very well. it is'nt real commonly used because most plumbing contracter=s don't want to stock both types, and i assume it's probably not that muc=h cheaper than the regular stuff,so there's no real bid advantage to usin=g it in the contracters eyes, but that doesn't matter to us. you can prob=ably find out about at a plumbing store like the ones that ace hardware h= guys,i justth= =is also a real thin- walled pvc tubing that is intended for "drain- only"=plumbing in residential construction. it has all the fittings that regul=ar pvc has, but it is only about 1/16+ thick in wall dimension. i don't k=now the schedule #, but i've seen it in houses and it would work very wel=l. it is'nt real commonly used because most plumbing contracters don't wa=nt to stock both types, and i assume it's probably not that much cheaper =than the regular stuff,so there's no real bid advantage to using it in th=e contracters eyes, but that doesn't matter to us. you can probably find = from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Mon Jul 23 10:07:31 2001 f6NF7UZ02964 Subject: Re: PVC tubes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, My two cents on PVC tubes....I have used PVC (schedule 40 electrical =conduit) for the last 20 years+/- for knock around tubes bushwacking, =hiking, etc. the only problem I have encountered is PVC's tendency to =take a set in high temp + 90F... losey Hi all, My two cents on PVC tubes....I have = (schedule 40 electrical conduit) for the last 20 years+/- for knock = bushwacking, hiking, etc. the only problem I have encountered is PVC's = to take a set in high temp + 90F... losey from mwflytyer@hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 10:14:04 2001 f6NFE3Z03322 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:13:50 -0700 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:13:50 GMT Subject: need new wayne cattanach email addy FILETIME=[142295B0:01C1138A] Looking for wayne's new email address. Wayne: if you are monitoring the list, I am looking for the replacement copy of your vol.1 video as previously discussed back in May; mine's partially not viewable. cheers,Steve SchweitzerPartner & Co-FounderThe Global Fly Fisherhttp://globalflyfisher.com From: Bamboo.Flyrod.Making@wugate.wustl.edu,Restoring@wugate.wustl.edu, and Collecting and Collecting Subject: RODMAKERS digest 422Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:00:13 CDT RODMAKERS Digest 422 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Utility Rod Tubes 2) Re: Fake Rods 3) Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 4) Removing Enamel 5) Re: Tip vibration 6) Re: Milward feedback 7) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 8) Milward on nodeless construction 9) Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 10) Re: Milward on nodeless construction 11) Re: Milward on nodeless construction 12) Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 13) tip vibes.... 14) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 15) Springfield,Illinois 16) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 17) Re: Milward on nodeless construction 18) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 19) glass ferrule SCOTT 20) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 21) Re: Removing Enamel 22) Re: Removing Enamel 23) Re: Removing Enamel 24) Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 25) Millward on Garrison Stress Curves 26) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 27) pvc rod tubes. 28) Re: pvc rod tubes. 29) pvc tubes 30) Problems opening attachments on Listserve - Thanks 31) Re: pvc rod tubes. 32) Taper Needed 33) Re: pvc rod tubes. 34) 4 string binder 35) beveller 36) Re: pvc rod tubes. 37) Re: 4 string binder 38) tensioners 39) Re: Taper Needed 40) Re: tensioners 41) Re: tensioners 42) RE: tensioners 43) Filing Jig 44) Re: pvc rod tubes. 45) Utility Rod Tubes II 46) Fw: Filing Jig 47) Re: Taper Needed 48) Re: Utility Rod Tubes II _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Mon Jul 23 10:50:40 2001 f6NFodZ04914 2001 00:50:37 +0900 (JST) 00:50:36 +0900 (JST) Subject: Is this virus? Hi, Just recently I began to receive so many post from the rodmakers list.Among them, though it was not from the list actually but I received anEnglish email and opened its attachment. I thought it was one from the listsince it was English mail. After that, probably, I started receiving several delivery failure messagesof email from several email providers, on which my email address isrecorded as a sender. Those email was caused an error because addresswaswrongly coded. But I never sent those email myself.I wonder if some virus is sending emails to someone else with attaching oneof my files. Does someone know about this virus and how to get rid of it? Tonight, I received a mail as below with an attachment:This is the same one I opened up the attachment. The attachment at thattime wasagenda of some banquet....--------------------------- Subject: JUST A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT THINGSMessage:Hi! How are you.I send you this file in order to have your advise.See you later. Thanks.--------- ------------------ Any advise is appreciated! Help! Max from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 23 11:23:49 2001 f6NGNmZ06403 23Jul 2001 12:24:03 -0400 Subject: Set question --=====================_144719997==_.ALT Are spinning rods more or less likely to take a set than fly rods? I built a spinning rod for a buddy, and it is the first time I have ever seen a set start to occur.Thanks in advance. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_144719997==_.ALT Are spinning rods more or less likely to take a set than fly rods? Ibuilt a spinning rod for a buddy, and it is the first time I have everseen a set start to occur.Thanks in advance. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_144719997==_.ALT-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jul 23 12:15:23 2001 f6NHFLZ08630 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:15:19 PDT Subject: Re: Set question bob, every spinning rod and casting rod i ever saw waslinedup with the hook hooked in the handle and theline reeled taught with a bend in the tip. then,anything will take a set. if he is hauling in big fishmaybe you might advise him to turn the rod over. timothy --- Bob Maulucci wrote:Are spinning rods more or less likely to take a setthan fly rods? I built a spinning rod for a buddy, and it is the first timeI have ever seen a set start to occur.Thanks in advance. Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 12:27:42 2001 f6NHRgZ09332 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:27:31 -0700 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:27:31 GMT Subject: Re: Millward on Garrison Stress Curves FILETIME=[C11F3B80:01C1139C] Strart, the head. It's hard to believe that someone would design rods and not at thesame time be a excellent caster. How could you ever test your product toknow what you've created. It would be like building a new style of violin and atthe same time not knowing how to tune or play it. You don't have to be aMotzart but at the same time you better not be a Joe Ka Plink a Put. advise should be a lesson to us all. made to a set depending advice was only then good but years rodmaking rods for forces that who cannot wonder song?) :-) build you Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jul 23 12:50:41 2001 f6NHoeZ10207 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:43:36 -0700 Subject: Re: need new wayne cattanach email addy Steve,Try this one. Wayne Cattanach Betcha you can wake Wayne up. Harry Steven Schweitzer wrote: Looking for wayne's new email address. Wayne: if you are monitoring the list, I am looking for the replacement copyof your vol.1 video as previously discussed back in May; mine's partiallynot viewable. cheers,Steve SchweitzerPartner & Co-FounderThe Global Fly Fisherhttp://globalflyfisher.com From: Bamboo.Flyrod.Making@wugate.wustl.edu,Restoring@wugate.wustl.edu,and Collecting Restoring@wugate.wustl.edu,and Collecting Subject: RODMAKERS digest 422Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 15:00:13 CDT RODMAKERS Digest 422 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Utility Rod Tubes 2) Re: Fake Rods 3) Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 4) Removing Enamel 5) Re: Tip vibration 6) Re: Milward feedback 7) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 8) Milward on nodeless construction 9) Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 10) Re: Milward on nodeless construction 11) Re: Milward on nodeless construction 12) Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 13) tip vibes.... 14) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 15) Springfield,Illinois 16) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 17) Re: Milward on nodeless construction 18) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 19) glass ferrule SCOTT 20) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 21) Re: Removing Enamel 22) Re: Removing Enamel 23) Re: Removing Enamel 24) Re: Planing Form Problems/A decision to make 25) Millward on Garrison Stress Curves 26) Re: Utility Rod Tubes 27) pvc rod tubes. 28) Re: pvc rod tubes. 29) pvc tubes 30) Problems opening attachments on Listserve - Thanks 31) Re: pvc rod tubes. 32) Taper Needed 33) Re: pvc rod tubes. 34) 4 string binder 35) beveller 36) Re: pvc rod tubes. 37) Re: 4 string binder 38) tensioners 39) Re: Taper Needed 40) Re: tensioners 41) Re: tensioners 42) RE: tensioners 43) Filing Jig 44) Re: pvc rod tubes. 45) Utility Rod Tubes II 46) Fw: Filing Jig 47) Re: Taper Needed 48) Re: Utility Rod Tubes II _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jul 23 12:52:34 2001 f6NHqXZ10403 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:45:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Is this virus? Max.I don't know for sure, but I suspect you have picked up a virus somewhere.I received a couple of emails from you entitled "GModel". Both containedattached files, which I promptly deleted. It may be time to find a goodanti-virus program. Harry Max wrote: Hi, Just recently I began to receive so many post from the rodmakers list.Among them, though it was not from the list actually but I received anEnglish email and opened its attachment. I thought it was one from the listsince it was English mail. After that, probably, I started receiving several delivery failure messagesof email from several email providers, on which my email address isrecorded as a sender. Those email was caused an error because addresswaswrongly coded. But I never sent those email myself.I wonder if some virus is sending emails to someone else with attaching oneof my files. Does someone know about this virus and how to get rid of it? Tonight, I received a mail as below with an attachment:This is the same one I opened up the attachment. The attachment at thattime wasagenda of some banquet....---------------------------Sender: "Gib and Merg Popkey"Subject: JUST A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT THINGSMessage:Hi! How are you.I send you this file in order to have your advise.See you later. Thanks.--------------------------- Any advise is appreciated! Help! Max --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from oandc@msn.com Mon Jul 23 13:19:32 2001 f6NIJVZ11444 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:19:25 -0700 Subject: Virus FILETIME=[01201A90:01C113A4] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Max, you may indeed have picked up a virus. To get rid of it go to the =following URL and download EZ-Trust antivirus. You can get a 90 day free =trial.http://my-etrust.com/products/I use it and it's been very effective.Wayne Kifer Max, you may indeed have picked up a = rid of it go to the following URL and download EZ-Trust antivirus. You = 90 day free trial.http://my-etrust.com/products/I use it and it's been very =effective.WayneKifer from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jul 23 13:21:07 2001 f6NIL6Z11656 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Yes on the outside. The fibre glass will turn invisible (like white silk)when epoxy is applyed. It will look like the wood is varnished...... danny From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Danny, are you thinking of doing this on the outsideof the tube, or the inside? Outside would do away withthe reason for making it out of wood (looks), butdoing this on the inside somehow, might give it thenecessary strength. Bill W.--- Danny Twang wrote:I've been thinking of using the finest weaved fibreglass and wrap it aroundthe hex case, and dress with epoxy (like whenbuilding boat). Then the casewill take quite a bit beating before it breaks intopieces........ danny __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jul 23 13:55:17 2001 f6NItGZ13071 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Ha, I have enough work trying to make some rods ready for my great oneyearimigration to New Zealand in December. But I'm sure it will work great, asksome boat builders using the "West System" or like. It won't be difficult atall, just make sure You get the finest fiber possible.......danny From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Interesting, hadn't thought of that effect. Would liketo know how it turns out. Could you let me know if youdo go ahead and do it, how it turns out? Thanks,Bill Walters --- Danny Twang wrote:Yes on the outside. The fibre glass will turninvisible (like white silk)when epoxy is applyed. It will look like the wood isvarnished...... danny From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Danny, are you thinking of doing this on theoutsideof the tube, or the inside? Outside would do awaywiththe reason for making it out of wood (looks), butdoing this on the inside somehow, might give itthenecessary strength. Bill W.--- Danny Twang wrote:I've been thinking of using the finest weavedfibreglass and wrap it aroundthe hex case, and dress with epoxy (like whenbuilding boat). Then the casewill take quite a bit beating before it breaksintopieces........ danny __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minutewith Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from splitcane@home.com Mon Jul 23 14:06:36 2001 f6NJ6ZZ13607 ;Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:06:29 -0700 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Ricks Rods Paul Blakley Wrote... Ricks Rods website ( www.ricksrods.com) seems to have closed?Has anyone Ricks e-mail address Hi Paul, There site and e-mail are down temporarily, they have set up ahotmail account to receive e-mails till the site is back on line... Rick's Rods can be reached at: ricksrods@hotmail.com or 303-778-7911 Take Care, Dave from lblan@provide.net Mon Jul 23 15:52:56 2001 f6NKqtZ22658 Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Back when we had an active wood shop in our facility, we purchased a lot offiberglasscloth. One of them was a paper thin, random weave cloth. The weightescapesme at the moment, but I seem to recall it being 10 oz cloth. It did trulydisappearwhen coated with epoxy, and took a very small amount to become saturated. Larry Blan Ha, I have enough work trying to make some rods ready for my great oneyear imigration to New Zealand in December. But I'm sure it will work great, ask some boat builders using the "West System" or like. It won't be difficult at all, just make sure You get the finest fiber possible.......danny From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Interesting, hadn't thought of that effect. Would liketo know how it turns out. Could you let me know if youdo go ahead and do it, how it turns out? Thanks,Bill Walters --- Danny Twang wrote:Yes on the outside. The fibre glass will turninvisible (like white silk)when epoxy is applyed. It will look like the wood isvarnished...... danny From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Danny, are you thinking of doing this on theoutsideof the tube, or the inside? Outside would do awaywiththe reason for making it out of wood (looks), butdoing this on the inside somehow, might give itthenecessary strength. Bill W.--- Danny Twang wrote:I've been thinking of using the finest weavedfibreglass and wrap it aroundthe hex case, and dress with epoxy (like whenbuilding boat). Then the casewill take quite a bit beating before it breaksintopieces........ danny __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minutewith Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ http://www.provide.net from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 16:03:19 2001 f6NL3IZ25728 OAA21347 Subject: Nodless splices This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I like to build nodeless rods like so many others. There are some =advantages but one of the headaches for me is sanding the splices. If =the enamel alignment is not perfect and some times even when it is there =is a issue with removing the enamel. Sanding the splice will eventually =remove the enamel but it can remove a little to much from one side for =my taste if the edges of the enamel were not perfectly flush at the time = So what I have done has totally eliminated the one side of the splice =enamel haze issue. After splitting the strips align the strips in the =arrangement for the splines. I then proceed to remove the enamel in the =region the splice will occur. A few passes with a triangle scraper =removes the enamel and provides a flush surface. Plane the splice and =now you have 2 pieces that will fit flush on top with out having to line =up the radius of the enamel. Maybe this is common knowledge, I have not found it any where else. I =hope others find it useful. It is all about the sharing. Best Regards, Adam Vigil I like to build nodeless rods like so = = the splices. If the enamel alignment is not perfect and some times even = is there is a issue with removing the enamel. Sanding the splice will = remove the enamel but it can remove a little to much from one side for = if the edges of the enamel were not perfectly flush at the time of glue = So what I have done has totally = side of the splice enamel haze issue. After splitting the strips align = strips in the arrangement for the splines. I then proceed to remove the = removes the enamel and provides a flush surface. Plane the splice and = have 2 pieces that will fit flush on top with out having to line up the = of the enamel. Maybe this is common knowledge, I have= sharing. Best Regards, AdamVigil from cw@vanion.com Mon Jul 23 16:28:22 2001 f6NLSLZ02921 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensee9bafdcb120a7d1559850f82300897dc) 0600 Subject: Fiberglass on rod tubes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. You could use glass on alum tubestoo, and have a SUPER strong tube. We =used to glass the alum or wood handles on our ice axes, and they were =almost indistructable! You could use glass on alum = SUPER strong tube. We used to glass the alum or wood handles on our ice = and they were almost indistructable! from homes-sold@home.com Mon Jul 23 16:56:11 2001 f6NLuAZ10611 femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:56:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Fiberglass on rod tubes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Crosscut Hardwoods, no interest etc., some times has tubing made of =about 8th inch hardwood plywood with veneer on the out side. Strong, =rich looking and pricy.Don Subject: Fiberglass on rod tubes You could use glass on alum tubestoo, and have a SUPER strong tube. We =used to glass the alum or wood handles on our ice axes, and they were =almost indistructable! Crosscut Hardwoods, no interest = times has tubing made of about 8th inch hardwood plywood with veneer on = Don From:chad wigham = Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:25 PMSubject: Fiberglass on rod tubes You could use glass on alum = SUPER strong tube. We used to glass the alum or wood handles on our ice = and they were almost indistructable! from rjwlawed@msn.com Mon Jul 23 19:34:51 2001 f6O0YoZ21485 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:34:41 -0700 Subject: glass cloth FILETIME=[6D7AC2B0:01C113D8] you can get down to a 4 oz. cloth. it dissapears in a brush coat. they=use it on cedar strake canoes. i think fibre- glass inc. in michigan has=it. guys, ush coat. they use it on cedar strake canoes. i think fibre- glass inc. i=n michigan has it. from rjwlawed@msn.com Mon Jul 23 19:43:45 2001 f6O0hiZ24048 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:43:39 -0700 Subject: glass on tubes FILETIME=[AE0D4220:01C113D9] why not sand the glaze off the pvc and epoxy a wood veneer on . oak, maho=gany,birch and walnut are readily available from most wood work suplies. =real good looking and the durability of pvc for yery little. you could al=so use contact cement, but it's not reallythe correct glue for veneers. g=lass over that and you'd have an indestructable tube that looks great. why notsand t=he glaze off the pvc and epoxy a wood veneer on . oak, mahogany,birch and=walnut are readily available from most wood work suplies. real good look=ing and the durability of pvc for yery little. you could also use contact=cement, but it's not reallythe correct glue for veneers. glass over that=and you'd have an indestructable tube that looksgreat. from setissma@email.msn.com Mon Jul 23 20:45:09 2001 f6O1j8Z04838 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:45:02 -0700 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: PVC tubes FILETIME=[41C37630:01C113E2] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Woodcraft now sells wood tubes constructed of some sort of veneered =plywood. They actually advertise them as suitable for rod tubes. They =look a bit thin to me, but those with an interest in dressing up pvc =tubes might want to take a look at them. If the I.D. matched the O.D. of =a pvc tube, you could just apply some adhesive and slide everything into =place. Well, in theory. Check it out. jeff schaeffer Woodcraft now sells wood tubes = sort of veneered plywood. They actually advertise them as suitable for = tubes. They look a bit thin to me, but those with an interest in = tubes might want to take a look at them. If the I.D. matched the O.D. of = tube, you could just apply some adhesive and slide everything into = in theory. Check it out. jeff =schaeffer from Troutgetter@aol.com Mon Jul 23 20:47:14 2001 f6O1lDZ05425 Subject: Re: a thank you to the list Chad,I remember the day you first wrote to the list. As I recall Harry Boyd wrote you back and asked if you were a relative!Congratulations on your first rod! Don't leave it in the back of your truck with a reel and expect it to be there in the morning! (Ask me how I know) Mike Shay Chad,I remember the day you first wrote to the list. As I recall Harry Boydwrote you back and asked if you were a relative!Congratulations on your first rod! Don't leave it in the back of yourtruck with a reel and expect it to be there in the morning! (Ask me how Iknow) Mike Shay from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 20:57:53 2001 f6O1vqZ07896 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:57:43 -0700 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:57:43 GMT Subject: Fiberglass FILETIME=[0749C1B0:01C113E4] At a good hobby shop you can get .7 to .9 oz cloth. from our favorite non rodbuilding supplier of goodies Sig. The cloth is as thin as paper and treated with something that lets it 'wet' out easily without bubbles. Also available is a special epoxy that is made to coat the cloth with. It flows out well and is sandable.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Jul 23 21:25:01 2001 f6O2P0Z14095 +0200 Subject: Re,; Al Medveds e-mail address This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks to You guys for responding regards, carsten Thanks to You guys forresponding regards, carsten from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jul 23 21:39:49 2001 f6O2dmZ17487 TAA20380 Subject: Re: Fake Rods This spring there was a granger rod on Ebay for sale. The ad stated that therod had been refinished with new guides, grip, ferrules, and thread. Alsothe reel seat whas replaced with an aluminum reel seat of the same vintage. could have been a Granger blank but I wasn't going to risk that kind ofmoney to find out. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fake Rods Unfortunately fakes are a reality, I saw one two years ago on theMcKenzie.A nice gentleman was watching my son and I rig up and he saw that wewereusing bamboo(Heddon #20 8 1/2 - 2 1/2F and a 8ft Phillipson) proud aspunchhe brought out the new rod that his wife purchased for him. A single tiprodthat was sold to her as restored Leonard for $1400. It wasn't, acollectionof sticks with bad components. Wouldn't have fooled many people(NO oneonthis group). As you can imagine I told him how nice it was and what aluckyguy he was. I still don't know if that was the right thing to do, I simplycouldn't burst the bubble he was living in. OK I was weak. Just had enoughsadness and bitterness for one day I guess. I often wonder about those'rodsfound unfinished on the masters bench' rods that still pop up. Notaccusingjust curious.A.J.Thramer From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: in search ofDate: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:23:04 -0400 You know I was thinking something sort of like this the other day aboutLeonard rods. It's amazing how many untouched and unfished Leonards Iseegoing on Ebay.I just wonder how many are truly original and how many are copies orrestored. With a price tag of $3000 or better there has got to besomeonewho is willing to copy a Leonard.I seen Brand new Leonard parts on ebay once and the bidding gotoutrageous.Now while it is true, they could have used these parts to restore, whatarethe odds it ended up on an exact copy.I'm sure no reputable maker would do such a thing, but when there is coldhard cash to be made you know someone has done it. Just pondering ithasanyone else ever wondered?How would you know an exact Copy if it had the right parts on it? I onlybring this up because I would like to purchase a Leonard and its a scarythought to pay $3000 if your not sure.I even have a picture of an old Leonard that I seen In the museum of flyfishing and I had reason to believe it was not all original. has anyoneelse encountered this?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Mon Jul 23 22:17:05 2001 f6O3H4Z25644 2001 12:16:55 +0900 (JST) 12:16:53 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Is this virus? Dear list members, This was exactly SirCam (w32.Sircam@mm) virus.I appreciate every body who sent me helpful emails.I killed the SirCam successfully using Symantec's free download virus busteranyway. Problem was after that. As some configuration related file waserased(killed),I had to restore the Windows configuration. It took time (a whole night) If I have installed latest anti virus software and I prepared a windowsrestart disk always, it would not take so much time to streamline this.I will install some anti virus software, from now on. I apologize that this happened.Probably some of you who had mail conversations with me before, might havereceived strange emails from me which attachment was "Gmodel.xls.pif". Thishad happened that SirCam virus worked on my PC and attached my file"Garrison model.xls". Thanks again for help. Max Hi, Just recently I began to receive so many post from the rodmakers list.Among them, though it was not from the list actually but I received anEnglish email and opened its attachment. I thought it was one from thelistsince it was English mail. After that, probably, I started receiving several delivery failuremessagesof email from several email providers, on which my email address isrecorded as a sender. Those email was caused an error because addresswaswrongly coded. But I never sent those email myself.I wonder if some virus is sending emails to someone else with attachingoneof my files. Does someone know about this virus and how to get rid of it? Tonight, I received a mail as below with an attachment:This is the same one I opened up the attachment. The attachment at thattime wasagenda of some banquet....---------------------------Sender: "Gib and Merg Popkey"Subject: JUST A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT THINGSMessage:Hi! How are you.I send you this file in order to have your advise.See you later. Thanks.--------------------------- Any advise is appreciated! Help! Max from djk762@earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 00:01:35 2001 f6O51YZ16630 WAA18776 Subject: Looking for culms Excerpt from another kind of bamboo freak- 30' height, Sun, 10 degrees F Minimum, Runner. Tonkin Cane,Teastick Bamboo, Ch'a kon chuk.The Arundinaria species in general have round culms with ratherinconspicuous nodes & a dried tan leaf-like wrapping at each node calledaculm sheath. They are generally hardy & prefer growing in shade orsemi-shade.Arundinaria amabilis is the source of valuable wood forhand- madefishing poles, ski-poles, bamboo trim, toys, cabinetwork, handcraft &furniture. The culms are straight, cylindrical, thick-walled, tough with nonprominent nodes. There is no fuzz on the leaves. Mature culms arebranchless at the lower nodes. Grown in large quantities as an important timber crop in China for shipment all over the world. Native tomountainousareas in Southern China. Has not done well in Southern California orFlorida.This plant broke my leg. It was the day after the firstInternational Bamboo Conference in Puerto Rico, July 1, 1985. Dr.McClurehad planted a clump of amabilis at a test site in the middle of theNationalForest in mountainous jungle terrain at Toro Negro in 1940 & it hadn'tbeenseen since. The USDA people did not want us hiking through the jungleto anunknown destination without a map & only a few guides, but ourenthusiasmprevailed & after 3 1/2 hours of strenuous work, we found it - a clump300'in diameter with 2 1/2", 50' high culms far enough apart to easily walkbetween. We took photos, dug some small clumps & started back. A localretired non-bamboo society hiker inexplicably left the group to followhisown trail & I inexplicably went after him to bring him back, slipped onawet rock & broke my ankle. I couldn't move one step. And because of the strange jungle acoustics nobody knew where I was, or even that I was introuble.The Bamboo Society group thought I was going back with thelonelyhiker & he thought I was going back to the main group. I dug a hole inthestream bed & put my foot in the cold water to keep the swelling down.2"long crabs in the water tickled my foot all night long. I dug a contourshape into the soil for comfort. I was wearing shorts & T-shirt. Imade asuit out of plastic plant-collecting bags to protect me from theferociousmosquitoes & cut a 6' long pole to fight off unwelcome visitors which Iheard crawling nearby. I was lost & alone all night. There was a fullmoon,a non-stop unbelievably loud beastly orchestral performance, I wasneverafraid, but I did not sleep. Quite an unforgettable experience! Anyonetormented by the problems of modern urban life should occasionally spendanight in the jungle to put things into perspective.A 4-man "civil defense" team which had been alerted by theBambooSociety at midnight found me around 10 in the morning & improvised astretcher with bamboo poles & t-shirts. It took 6 hours to carry me outwith6 amabilis babies clutched to my stomach.The local newspaper reported "Dr. Stover, a celebrated chemistfromHarvard fell into a 30' deep hole & was bitten all over by crabs."BruceMcAlpin said, "A cheap stunt - what some people won't do for publicity." David Andrews in Oxon Hill, Maryland reports most leaves ofamabilissurvive down to 7 degrees F.A 5 gallon pot was sold at the fall 1991 SCABS sale for $20. Apunygallon pot 2' tall sold for $10 at the spring 1995 auction. Source- http://www.endangeredspecies.com/ -David Kashuba from rodwrapp@swbell.net Tue Jul 24 00:10:55 2001 f6O5AsZ18774 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) Subject: Newsgroups This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I am using outlook express and I want to set up a newsgroup account but =I dont know the server name, how do I find out the server name?? Also =what is the name for the flyfishing newsgroup??? I got a new computer =and forgot how to get to the newsgroups.. Thanks Dave I am using outlook express and I want = newsgroup account but I dont know the server name, how do I find out the = Dave from homes-sold@home.com Tue Jul 24 10:48:28 2001 f6OFmRZ16874 femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: test This is a multi-part message in MIME format. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 24 11:03:18 2001 f6OG3GZ17501 Subject: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virus alert Gentle readers,you've prob all heard and in some cases already experienced the SirCamvirus.I've spent most of the day flushing out and reinstalling systems as aresult of this little bugger and I really can't stress enough it'sseriousness.The big problem although there are quite a few like it will hijack any exefile that's executed, fill the HDD with the Win OS on it or delete itoutright is you don't actually have to open an attachement to get it.I only just inspected my PC to see if SirCam was present which it wasn'tthen I just opened my email and saw two messages with attachements arrive.One was from Uganda and the other from Poland. I noticed these because Idon't know anybody in Uganda nor Poland.Sure enough they both had attachments.One had the same body Max's had being the file is for me to comment on theother was one I haven't seen in the bulletens asking me to review my order.I deleted them obviously without reading the attachments, flushed therecycle bin etc and just to see I re ran the below program to find andremove SirCam.To my surprise both cases of the virus were still resident on my PC AND myregistry file had been modified. I'll make the point again, I didn't open the attachement. I STRONGLY recomend getting the below prog and having it on hand and check Due to the risks of improper removal, antivirus vendor Symantec hascreateda free utility that makes the necessary modifications and removes anyinstances of the virus. It can be downloaded from: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/FixSirc.com. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Having been erased,The document you're seekingMust now be retyped. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 24 11:25:40 2001 f6OGPeZ18486 Subject: LN 212 I've just used my LN 212 for the first time. It was money well spent. I hadbeen using cabinet scrapers and a Stanley 9 * blade (I put a Hock in the 91/2) and a small Buck plane I kept trying to convert to a scraper. I finallygot it working and immediately saw the difference between a cabinet scraperand a scraper plane! This justified the LN 212! One thing for anyone thinking of buying the LN 212 who plan on getting the"rodmakers groove" milled in. The printed brochure gives the groove as.003" but the web page says .005". LN has changed the depth of the grooveto .003" per several rodmaker's request. This is fine for the block plane buta little thin for the scraper. When set to take off just barely enough, theblade will drag on the form. It's be very, very careful or sharpen the blade so my LN 212 will be in the mail this PM. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from oandc@msn.com Tue Jul 24 11:31:31 2001 f6OGVVZ18825 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:31:24 -0700 Subject: Dial Indicators FILETIME=[14F3FC20:01C1145E] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Gentlemen,I would benefit by a little feedback concerning the accuracy of =inexpensive dial indicators and dial calipers. Cen-Tech and SAE have =indicators for about $20. I can get Mitutoyo used on E-Bay for around =$60. I cannot really afford Mitutoyo new. The question is whether there =is a significant difference in accuracy. Enough to affect the quality of =a finished form or rod. Your best recommendations would be appreciated. =Thanks,Wayne Gentlemen,I would benefit by a little feedback = accuracy of inexpensive dial indicators and dial calipers. Cen-Tech and = indicators for about $20. I can get Mitutoyo used on E-Bay for around = significant difference in accuracy. Enough to affect the quality of a = Thanks,Wayne from homes-sold@home.com Tue Jul 24 11:37:24 2001 f6OGbOZ19218 femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:37:23 -0700 Subject: Re: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virus alert Tony,Helped a friend with this virus over the weekend. Once infected one of themany things it won't allow you to do is you can't download the fix becauseit won't allow you to go on line. What we did was download the fix on my PCand save it to disk and them run it on his PC. Needless to say, I have acopy of the fix on a floppy just in case. This is a nasty bugger!Don Subject: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virus alert Gentle readers,you've prob all heard and in some cases already experienced the SirCamvirus.I STRONGLY recomend getting the below prog and having it on hand and check Due to the risks of improper removal, antivirus vendor Symantec hascreateda free utility that makes the necessary modifications and removes anyinstances of the virus. It can be downloaded from: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/FixSirc.com. Tony from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 24 11:43:06 2001 f6OGh4Z19597 Subject: Re: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virusalert That's a good idea because it prob wont be the last time you need it. Tony At 09:44 AM 7/24/01 -0700, Don Schneider wrote:Tony,Helped a friend with this virus over the weekend. Once infected one of themany things it won't allow you to do is you can't download the fix becauseit won't allow you to go on line. What we did was download the fix on my PCand save it to disk and them run it on his PC. Needless to say, I have acopy of the fix on a floppy just in case. This is a nasty bugger!Don From: "Tony Young" Subject: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virus alert Gentle readers,you've prob all heard and in some cases already experienced the SirCamvirus.I STRONGLY recomend getting the below prog and having it on hand andcheck Due to the risks of improper removal, antivirus vendor Symantec hascreateda free utility that makes the necessary modifications and removes anyinstances of the virus. It can be downloaded from: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/FixSirc.com. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jul 24 11:49:05 2001 f6OGn4Z19952 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Dial Indicators This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Last year I dropped my Starrett and bend the shaft on it and broke =the lense. I sent it back for repair and in the meantime, bought a ="Phase II" dial indicator for less than $20. It was, and still is, just =as accurate at the Starrett. Most of the import dial indicators are more =than accurate enough for making rods... the important thing is to have =an accurate, high quality 60 degree contact point, and the only one I've = Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:32 AMSubject: Dial Indicators Gentlemen,I would benefit by a little feedback concerning the accuracy of =inexpensive dial indicators and dial calipers. Cen-Tech and SAE have =indicators for about $20. I can get Mitutoyo used on E-Bay for around =$60. I cannot really afford Mitutoyo new. The question is whether there =is a significant difference in accuracy. Enough to affect the quality of =a finished form or rod. Your best recommendations would be appreciated. =Thanks,Wayne Wayne, = indicators are more than accurate enough for making rods... the = one I've ever found that is a true 60 degrees is the Starrett = Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- oandc = Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 = AMSubject: Dial Indicators Gentlemen,I would benefit by a little feedback = the accuracy of inexpensive dial indicators and dial calipers. = SAE have indicators for about $20. I can get Mitutoyo used on E-Bay = $60. I cannot really afford Mitutoyo new. The question is whether = significant difference in accuracy. Enough to affect the quality of a = Thanks,Wayne from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jul 24 12:53:09 2001 f6OHr9Z22237 ([208.58.202.224] helo=erols.com) Subject: Re: LN 212 I wonder if they will groove older LN212s for a fee, mine's 4 years old now. Bob k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: I've just used my LN 212 for the first time. It was money well spent. I hadbeen using cabinet scrapers and a Stanley 9 * blade (I put a Hock in the 91/2) and a small Buck plane I kept trying to convert to a scraper. I finallygot it working and immediately saw the difference between a cabinet scraperand a scraper plane! This justified the LN 212! One thing for anyone thinking of buying the LN 212 who plan on getting the"rodmakers groove" milled in. The printed brochure gives the groove as.003" but the web page says .005". LN has changed the depth of the grooveto .003" per several rodmaker's request. This is fine for the block plane buta little thin for the scraper. When set to take off just barely enough, theblade will drag on the form. It's be very, very careful or sharpen the blade so my LN 212 will be in the mail this PM. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Jul 24 13:00:36 2001 f6OI0ZZ22862 Subject: Polishing compounds question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Guys,I was recently given 2 containers of some 3M polishing compound and was =wondering if anyone had any experience with either for polishing the =finish on our rods. The first one is labeled: 3M Imperial Microfinishing Compound-Paste =Part # 051131-06031 The other is labeled: 3M Imperial Hand Glaze Part # 051131-05990 I will appreciate any input from anyone who has used these products. Thanks, Mike Guys,I was recently given 2 containers of = polishing compound and was wondering if anyone had any experience with = The other is labeled: 3M Imperial Hand = Part # 051131-05990 I will appreciate any input from anyone= used these products. Thanks, Mike from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 24 13:55:12 2001 f6OItCZ25434 Subject: Re: LN 212 Possibly. Send them an email. You might address it to Michelle. Sheanswered my emails. They are nice people. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com dryfly@erols.com wrote:I wonder if they will groove older LN212s for a fee, mine's 4 years old now. Bob k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: I've just used my LN 212 for the first time. It was money well spent. I hadbeen using cabinet scrapers and a Stanley 9 * blade (I put a Hock in the 91/2) and a small Buck plane I kept trying to convert to a scraper. I finallygot it working and immediately saw the difference between a cabinet scraperand a scraper plane! This justified the LN 212! One thing for anyone thinking of buying the LN 212 who plan on getting the"rodmakers groove" milled in. The printed brochure gives the groove as.003" but the web page says .005". LN has changed the depth of the grooveto .003" per several rodmaker's request. This is fine for the block plane buta little thin for the scraper. When set to take off just barely enough, theblade will drag on the form. It's be very, very careful or sharpen the blade so my LN 212 will be in the mail this PM. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from EESweet@aol.com Tue Jul 24 15:46:34 2001 f6OKkYZ29796 MAILINID94-0724164626; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:46:26 -0400 Subject: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi All, decide on a spey taper to build, and I've made a few discoveries, and formeda new hypothesis on the Cattanach Hinge. First, being a fan of fast action rods, I took a look at modifying tapers I likedinto something that could be used for a spey rod, as all the spey tapersseemed awfully slow (for me). I figured any rod that roll cast well should bereasonably suitable. Essentially I was trying to use Hexrod to stretch 8' #7tapers to 11' or so to see if they would work. What I found was, with thatmuch additional length, my favorite fast action tapers became medium slowtapers. Why? Well, while the max and min stresses (amplitude) stayed thesame, and the basic shape of the curve didn't change, the "frequency" did. Ifyou take a look at your favorite rod's stress curve in Hexrod, then stretchthe length you'll see what I mean. After adding length, the amplitude peaksand valleys are further apart, resulting in a slower transfer of energy alongthe length of the rod. In order to increase the length of the rod and not slowthe action, you would also have to increase the amplitude by the!!same percentage. Pretty obvious I know, but somehow I'd missed that until now. Second, after looking at all the spey tapers I could get my hands on (thanksto the listmembers who shared the ones they had), what they all had incommon was a slow action that flexed well into the butt section. At first Iattributed this to "slow" being the prevalent rod design when these taperswere created, but I now think it's more likely a case of them being purposebuilt. After all, slow tapers are notoriously good roll casters and a spey castis really just a type of roll cast, therefore... While searching the archives Icame across several comments about rods that roll cast better than theyoverhead cast, invariably they had very slow, flex into the grip actions. Thismakes me suspect that adding more "snap" to a spey taper would likely addnothing especially beneficial to it's action. You have no idea how much ithurts a "fast action" caster like myself to admit that :-) Last, all the above somehow led me to look at why slow action rods are suchincredible roll casters, and why even the fastest action rods can be made toroll cast well with the use of the Cattanach Hinge. I've heard bamboo rodsbeing described as "self loading", that is, because of the extra mass canerods carry they can load up and cast line without there being much line outpast the tiptop. This is especially true of slower rods. Now think of the rollcast; despite the resistance of the line on the water, how much of a load isreally being but on the rod by the line? Not a whole lot. However this doesn'tmatter with a slow action rod as it will load from its own weight alone. With afast action rod however, you have something altogether different. Eventhough the stress (amount of flex) is greater in fast action rods, becauseit's way up in the tip, there is not enough mass above the point of maximumflex to load the rod. Even if you muscle it, forcing it to flex the!!tip, you don't get much of a roll cast. Hmmm. Now, everyone here knows that to fix that you'd just add ahinge about 18" above the grip, which will allow a momentary pause in thetransfer of energy, allowing the loop to form and the cast to roll on acrossthe river, right? Well, I'm not so sure anymore... Here's my hypothesis: (andwhere I start to feel like a heretic, blasphemer...) Adding a hinge at thatpoint may in fact create pause in the transfer of energy, however I thinkthat what's actually happening is much simpler. It allows the rod to flexlower in the the action range, allowing a greater amount of self loading, andthus energy transfer, to occur. To illustrate this, run your favorite taperthrough Hexrod, only reduce the line length to 10 feet to simulate the lack ofline resistance in a roll cast. Notice how the stresses in the tip droptremendously, in some cases to the point where tip stresses drop below buttsection stresses. Now look at the stresses in the butt section. While the!!amount of stress has dropped, notice that the shape of the curve is nearly unchanged. In some cases this isnow the highest stressed portion of the rod. This is due to the mass of thecane in the upper 2/3 of the rod. Thus, when roll casting I believe that themajority of energy produced comes from the lower 1/3 of the rod, withoutwhich roll casting is not possible. Sorry for the bandwidth, this turned out to be much more verbose than Ianticipated, and probably not as clear as I would have liked... Like I said, it'sjust a hypothesis, please feel free to tell me why I'm wrong! Eric from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Jul 24 15:48:08 2001 f6OKm7Z00007 Subject: Re: Polishing compounds question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Doc: I have used the 3m product but prefer McQuires. They have a kit that =you can purchase at your local auto body paint store that has 4 =different grades of polish/cutting compound and a spray bottle of touch =up. I start out with the heavy cutting compound (after sanding any =imperfections with 2000 grit and boiled linseed oil) and work my way =down to the finest grit. This puts a beautiful finish on the rods. Joe Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:00 PMSubject: Polishing compounds question Guys,I was recently given 2 containers of some 3M polishing compound and =was wondering if anyone had any experience with either for polishing the =finish on our rods. The first one is labeled: 3M Imperial Microfinishing Compound-Paste =Part # 051131-06031 The other is labeled: 3M Imperial Hand Glaze Part # 051131-05990 I will appreciate any input from anyone who has used these products. Thanks, Mike Doc: I have used the 3m product but prefer = have a kit that you can purchase at your local auto body paint store = imperfections with 2000 grit and boiled linseed oil) and work my way = rods. Joe other....."What a Great Life". ----- Original Message ----- shaffer Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 = PM question Guys,I was recently given 2 containers of = polishing compound and was wondering if anyone had any experience with = The first one is labeled: 3M Imperial = 06031 The other is labeled: 3M Imperial = I will appreciate any input from = used these products. Thanks, Mike from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Jul 24 16:08:39 2001 f6OL8cZ00974 OAA12282; Subject: Re: Dial Indicators This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Wayne, I have used both highend and dial indicators low end. For our intents =and purposes the less expensive ones do just fine. I bought one from =http://www.nolansupply.com/ . Best Regards, Adam Vigil Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:33 AMSubject: Re: Dial Indicators Last year I dropped my Starrett and bend the shaft on it and broke =the lense. I sent it back for repair and in the meantime, bought a ="Phase II" dial indicator for less than $20. It was, and still is, just =as accurate at the Starrett. Most of the import dial indicators are more =than accurate enough for making rods... the important thing is to have =an accurate, high quality 60 degree contact point, and the only one I've = Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:32 AMSubject: Dial Indicators Gentlemen,I would benefit by a little feedback concerning the accuracy of =inexpensive dial indicators and dial calipers. Cen-Tech and SAE have =indicators for about $20. I can get Mitutoyo used on E-Bay for around =$60. I cannot really afford Mitutoyo new. The question is whether there =is a significant difference in accuracy. Enough to affect the quality of =a finished form or rod. Your best recommendations would be appreciated. =Thanks,Wayne Wayne, I have used both highend and dial = end. For our intents and purposes the less expensive ones do just fine. = one from http://www.nolansupply.com/ =;. Best Regards, Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: Dial =Indicators Wayne, Starrett = the meantime, bought a "Phase II" dial indicator for less than = dial indicators are more than accurate enough for making rods... the = the only one I've ever found that is a true 60 degrees is the Starrett = Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- oandc= = Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 = AMSubject: Dial =Indicators Gentlemen,I would benefit by a little = the accuracy of inexpensive dial indicators and dial calipers. = SAE have indicators for about $20. I can get Mitutoyo used on E-Bay = around $60. I cannot really afford Mitutoyo new. The question is = there is a significant difference in accuracy. Enough to affect the = of a finished form or rod. Your best recommendations would be = Thanks,Wayne from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jul 24 17:35:34 2001 f6OMZXZ03218 Subject: Re: LN 212 Onis, When I ordered my 212 from L-N I had them mill the groove at .005, also.Made more sense to me, and I'm glad I did it that way. M-D I've just used my LN 212 for the first time. It was money well spent. Ihad been using cabinet scrapers and a Stanley 9 * blade (I put a Hock in the9 1/2) and a small Buck plane I kept trying to convert to a scraper. Ifinally got it working and immediately saw the difference between a cabinetscraper and a scraper plane! This justified the LN 212! One thing for anyone thinking of buying the LN 212 who plan on getting the"rodmakers groove" milled in. The printed brochure gives the groove as.003" but the web page says .005". LN has changed the depth of the grooveto .003" per several rodmaker's request. This is fine for the block planebut a little thin for the scraper. When set to take off just barely enough,the blade will drag on the form. It's be very, very careful or sharpen theblade for each strip. Lie Nielsen has generously offered to mill out theextra .002" so my LN 212 will be in the mail this PM. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from rvenneri@ulster.net Tue Jul 24 19:12:01 2001 f6P0C1Z05268 Organization: Venneri's Custom Components Subject: fish in Hey guys There is what is called a fish in all this week in Hancock NY. Fridayis Cane Day. I will be there on Friday. There is also a lot going on therest of the week too. I will be at the Deleware River Club On Friday at1:00 if any body is nearby. Here is a link to more info on the Fish IN http://flyanglersonline.com/ Follow the link to the fish in http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html from briansr@point-net.com Wed Jul 25 04:34:32 2001 f6P9YWZ14801 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 05:29:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi EricYes, there is a lot of load being put on the rod when Speycasting.Also notmuch load is imparted from line in the water because when Speycasting onlythe fly ,leader and a minimum amount of line, at best, is on the surfacewhen you are loading up the rod during the cast.With today's lines,you'llfind that a rod with a stiffer butt section WILL cast further.Also you willhave a ton of trouble trying a snake-roll,which has pretty well made thedouble Spey extinct.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi All, decide on a spey taper to build, and I've made a few discoveries, and formeda new hypothesis on the Cattanach Hinge. First, being a fan of fast action rods, I took a look at modifying tapersI liked into something that could be used for a spey rod, as all the speytapers seemed awfully slow (for me). I figured any rod that roll cast wellshould be reasonably suitable. Essentially I was trying to use Hexrod tostretch 8' #7 tapers to 11' or so to see if they would work. What I foundwas, with that much additional length, my favorite fast action tapers becamemedium slow tapers. Why? Well, while the max and min stresses (amplitude)stayed the same, and the basic shape of the curve didn't change, the"frequency" did. If you take a look at your favorite rod's stress curve inHexrod, then stretch the length you'll see what I mean. After addinglength, the amplitude peaks and valleys are further apart, resulting in aslower transfer of energy along the length of the rod. In order to increasethe length of the rod and not slow the action, you would also have toincrease the amplitude by the!!same percentage. Pretty obvious I know, but somehow I'd missed that until now. Second, after looking at all the spey tapers I could get my hands on(thanks to the listmembers who shared the ones they had), what they all hadin common was a slow action that flexed well into the butt section. Atfirst I attributed this to "slow" being the prevalent rod design when thesetapers were created, but I now think it's more likely a case of them beingpurpose built. After all, slow tapers are notoriously good roll casters anda spey cast is really just a type of roll cast, therefore... Whilesearching the archives I came across several comments about rods that rollcast better than they overhead cast, invariably they had very slow, flexinto the grip actions. This makes me suspect that adding more "snap" to aspey taper would likely add nothing especially beneficial to it's action.You have no idea how much it hurts a "fast action" caster like myself toadmit that :-) Last, all the above somehow led me to look at why slow action rods aresuch incredible roll casters, and why even the fastest action rods can bemade to roll cast well with the use of the Cattanach Hinge. I've heardbamboo rods being described as "self loading", that is, because of the extramass cane rods carry they can load up and cast line without there beingmuchline out past the tiptop. This is especially true of slower rods. Nowthink of the roll cast; despite the resistance of the line on the water, howmuch of a load is really being but on the rod by the line? Not a whole lot.However this doesn't matter with a slow action rod as it will load from itsown weight alone. With a fast action rod however, you have somethingaltogether different. Even though the stress (amount of flex) is greater infast action rods, because it's way up in the tip, there is not enough massabove the point of maximum flex to load the rod. Even if you muscle it,forcing it to flex the!!tip, you don't get much of a roll cast. Hmmm. Now, everyone here knows that to fix that you'd just adda hinge about 18" above the grip, which will allow a momentary pause in thetransfer of energy, allowing the loop to form and the cast to roll on acrossthe river, right? Well, I'm not so sure anymore... Here's my hypothesis:(and where I start to feel like a heretic, blasphemer...) Adding a hinge atthat point may in fact create pause in the transfer of energy, however Ithink that what's actually happening is much simpler. It allows the rod toflex lower in the the action range, allowing a greater amount of selfloading, and thus energy transfer, to occur. To illustrate this, run yourfavorite taper through Hexrod, only reduce the line length to 10 feet tosimulate the lack of line resistance in a roll cast. Notice how thestresses in the tip drop tremendously, in some cases to the point where tipstresses drop below butt section stresses. Now look at the stresses in thebutt section. While the!!amount of stress has dropped, notice that the shape of the curve is nearly unchanged. In some cases thisis now the highest stressed portion of the rod. This is due to the mass ofthe cane in the upper 2/3 of the rod. Thus, when roll casting I believethat the majority of energy produced comes from the lower 1/3 of the rod,without which roll casting is not possible. Sorry for the bandwidth, this turned out to be much more verbose than Ianticipated, and probably not as clear as I would have liked... Like Isaid, it's just a hypothesis, please feel free to tell me why I'm wrong! Eric from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Jul 25 06:13:57 2001 f6PBDuZ16181 f6PBDfq14348; f6PBDaW72064; Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy What may be happening is that the loss in modulus in thicker strips, soaccurately measured by Bob Milward, results in a softer butt section thanhexrod predicts. I recall that Garrison talked about adding a fewthousandths to butt sections of heavier weight rods. The problem is thatwhen we use the moment of inertia of a hexigon in hexrod, we have justassumed that the modulus of the rod is the same throughout. Your observations about roll casting are interesting, and I'm not qualifiedto comment. But I will. My impression is that the hinge delays thetransfer of energy enough so that the caster's natural power snap is moreefficiently matched to the line inertia. If the caster were able to adjusthis stroke to achieve the same tip velocity, the hinge would not bebeneficial. I think it's a matter of making the stroke feel right to thecaster. Best regardsJim U ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi All, decide on a spey taper to build, and I've made a few discoveries, and formeda new hypothesis on the Cattanach Hinge. First, being a fan of fast action rods, I took a look at modifying tapersI liked into something that could be used for a spey rod, as all the speytapers seemed awfully slow (for me). I figured any rod that roll cast wellshould be reasonably suitable. Essentially I was trying to use Hexrod tostretch 8' #7 tapers to 11' or so to see if they would work. What I foundwas, with that much additional length, my favorite fast action tapers becamemedium slow tapers. Why? Well, while the max and min stresses (amplitude)stayed the same, and the basic shape of the curve didn't change, the"frequency" did. If you take a look at your favorite rod's stress curve inHexrod, then stretch the length you'll see what I mean. After addinglength, the amplitude peaks and valleys are further apart, resulting in aslower transfer of energy along the length of the rod. In order to increasethe length of the rod and not slow the action, you would also have toincrease the amplitude by t!he!!same percentage. Pretty obvious I know, but somehow I'd missed that until now. Second, after looking at all the spey tapers I could get my hands on(thanks to the listmembers who shared the ones they had), what they all hadin common was a slow action that flexed well into the butt section. Atfirst I attributed this to "slow" being the prevalent rod design when thesetapers were created, but I now think it's more likely a case of them beingpurpose built. After all, slow tapers are notoriously good roll casters anda spey cast is really just a type of roll cast, therefore... Whilesearching the archives I came across several comments about rods that rollcast better than they overhead cast, invariably they had very slow, flexinto the grip actions. This makes me suspect that adding more "snap" to aspey taper would likely add nothing especially beneficial to it's action.You have no idea how much it hurts a "fast action" caster like myself toadmit that :-) Last, all the above somehow led me to look at why slow action rods aresuch incredible roll casters, and why even the fastest action rods can bemade to roll cast well with the use of the Cattanach Hinge. I've heardbamboo rods being described as "self loading", that is, because of the extramass cane rods carry they can load up and cast line without there beingmuchline out past the tiptop. This is especially true of slower rods. Nowthink of the roll cast; despite the resistance of the line on the water, howmuch of a load is really being but on the rod by the line? Not a whole lot.However this doesn't matter with a slow action rod as it will load from itsown weight alone. With a fast action rod however, you have somethingaltogether different. Even though the stress (amount of flex) is greater infast action rods, because it's way up in the tip, there is not enough massabove the point of maximum flex to load the rod. Even if you muscle it,forcing it to flex t!he!!tip, you don't get much of a roll cast. Hmmm. Now, everyone here knows that to fix that you'd just adda hinge about 18" above the grip, which will allow a momentary pause in thetransfer of energy, allowing the loop to form and the cast to roll on acrossthe river, right? Well, I'm not so sure anymore... Here's my hypothesis:(and where I start to feel like a heretic, blasphemer...) Adding a hinge atthat point may in fact create pause in the transfer of energy, however Ithink that what's actually happening is much simpler. It allows the rod toflex lower in the the action range, allowing a greater amount of selfloading, and thus energy transfer, to occur. To illustrate this, run yourfavorite taper through Hexrod, only reduce the line length to 10 feettosimulate the lack of line resistance in a roll cast. Notice how thestresses in the tip drop tremendously, in some cases to the point where tipstresses drop below butt section stresses. Now look at the stresses in thebutt section. While t!he!!amount of stress has dropped, notice that the shape of the curve is nearly unchanged. In some cases thisis now the highest stressed portion of the rod. This is due to the mass ofthe cane in the upper 2/3 of the rod. Thus, when roll casting I believethat the majority of energy produced comes from the lower 1/3 of the rod,without which roll casting is not possible. Sorry for the bandwidth, this turned out to be much more verbose than Ianticipated, and probably not as clear as I would have liked... Like Isaid, it's just a hypothesis, please feel free to tell me why I'm wrong! Eric from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Jul 25 06:40:56 2001 f6PBetZ16670 mail.cyberport.com Subject: Re: Polishing compounds question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. These are the products that I use to polish out all of my rods. No =silicone, if I remember the label. I use the fine cut to polish out any =dust mites or ripples and the hand glaze as a final polish. Good water =shedding properties. I really like the stuff and have not had any = Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:00 PMSubject: Polishing compounds question Guys,I was recently given 2 containers of some 3M polishing compound and =was wondering if anyone had any experience with either for polishing the =finish on our rods. The first one is labeled: 3M Imperial Microfinishing Compound-Paste =Part # 051131-06031 The other is labeled: 3M Imperial Hand Glaze Part # 051131-05990 I will appreciate any input from anyone who has used these products. Thanks, Mike Mike, These are the products that I use to = of my rods. No silicone, if I remember the label. I use the fine cut to = out any dust mites or ripples and the hand glaze as a final polish. Good = shedding properties. I really like the stuff and have not had any = it. Jim ----- Original Message ----- shaffer Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 = PM question Guys,I was recently given 2 containers of = polishing compound and was wondering if anyone had any experience with = The first one is labeled: 3M Imperial = 06031 The other is labeled: 3M Imperial = I will appreciate any input from = used these products. Thanks, Mike from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Jul 25 06:42:00 2001 f6PBfxZ16821 Subject: Tools Available Due to the reduced number of students now taking the classes that Ioffer - I am cleaning out the workshop a bit - for those interested I amselling planing forms - accessories (hand planes - scrapers - ....) - andbecause of my changed ways of making rods today - I am also wanting topartwith my Grizzley 9" X 18" - I am finishing a list of equipment and pricing -BUT PLEASE _ PLEASE - email me OFF LIST - I Repeat - OFF LIST withrequests ever - so do not use that address for contact from EESweet@aol.com Wed Jul 25 10:18:51 2001 f6PFIoZ28330 MAILINID58-0725111816; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:18:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi Jim, I understand what you're saying about the loss in modulus as you get intothicker sections of the cane, but I'm not sure where you're applying it (fastrods or slow rods?). If it were that much of a factor wouldn't you be able todo without the hinge entirely and rely on the loss in modulus to provide theadditional flex needed in the butt section to enhance roll casting? Not qualified to comment? With 4 rods under my belt I wasn't exactlyqualified to make the observations in the first place... That said, I guesswhat I'm picturing during the roll cast is somewhat similar to what happenswhen you cast a parabolic in that by allowing the rod to flex lower in thetaper, you actually increase the rod's power and line moving ability. Ofcourse I'm basing this on Garrison's stress calculations, which show the tipbarely working when there's not much line out...and just about everyone onthe list agrees that these calculations are far from perfect...and so quitepossibly my deductions from it. Cheers,Eric What may be happening is that the loss in modulus in thicker strips, soaccurately measured by Bob Milward, results in a softer butt section thanhexrod predicts. I recall that Garrison talked about adding a fewthousandths to butt sections of heavier weight rods. The problem is thatwhen we use the moment of inertia of a hexigon in hexrod, we have justassumed that the modulus of the rod is the same throughout. Your observations about roll casting are interesting, and I'm not qualifiedto comment. But I will. My impression is that the hinge delays thetransfer of energy enough so that the caster's natural power snap is moreefficiently matched to the line inertia. If the caster were able to adjusthis stroke to achieve the same tip velocity, the hinge would not bebeneficial. I think it's a matter of making the stroke feel right to thecaster. Best regardsJim U from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Jul 25 13:23:09 2001 f6PIN8Z08702 Subject: Re: Tools Available I would like to Thank every one that expressed interest in the toolItems that I had for sale - the only things left are the lathe and theHerter's forms - Thanks Again----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tools Available Due to the reduced number of students now taking the classes that Ioffer - I am cleaning out the workshop a bit - for those interested I amselling planing forms - accessories (hand planes - scrapers - ....) - andbecause of my changed ways of making rods today - I am also wanting topartwith my Grizzley 9" X 18" - I am finishing a list of equipment andpricing -BUT PLEASE _ PLEASE - email me OFF LIST - I Repeat - OFF LIST withrequests soever - so do not use that address for contact from jmpio@nhbm.com Wed Jul 25 14:55:54 2001 f6PJtrZ14226 Subject: Off the Air My e-mail server was down for a couple days. Anyone who tried to reach methis week, probably didn't. Anyone who received mail returned asundeliverable, it supposedly is now working. I used the time away from thelist wisely and varnished a rod. James M. Piotrowski from mtbrown@sprynet.com Wed Jul 25 16:15:04 2001 f6PLF4Z18550 Subject: virus This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi: I have been getting a virus and I was just wondering if it has =beencoming via the rodmaker list server. It is called, w32.Magistr.24876@ =andinfo can be found on the Norton site. You might want to check. Mike might want to check. Mike from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 16:38:58 2001 f6PLcvZ19862 OAA05653 Subject: How much is your tip off? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Setting my forms for a Para 15 light tip it came across my mind to share =a little something. Now I know there is very little new under the sun =when it comes to rodmaking so I post this for info and or review. When I set my form I use 2 methods to check and double check the =settings. First I use my dial indicator with a slotted base and 60* tip =this is very fast.. I then go over the form and double check the =settings with a drill rod and flat tipped dial indicator using the = very accurate and will show you exactly how much your 60* tip is off. sure what the depth is. By then taking the reading with the tip you are =able to see how many thousands the tip is off. Once you know what the =tip is off by you then can proceed to use the tip allowing for =discrepensy. I know that my tip is off by .001". I found this is a good way to fine tune the forms also. If your reading =is off with the 60* tip and it varies throughout the form .001 in one =place and .003 in another it is time to tune up the forms until the =variance is equal throughout the form. The slotted base also allows me to measure the size of strips while in =the form using the dial indicator and a flat tip. No more crused apex or =dial calipers. Thanks to the rodmakes such as John Bokstrom for providing this valuable =information. I hope some of the other new makers who have not come =across this information finds it helpful. It certainly has helped me! Best Regards,Adam Vigil Setting my forms for a Para 15 light = across my mind to share a little something. Now I know there is very = review. When I set my form I use 2 methods to= double check the settings. First I use my dial indicator with a slotted = settings with a drill rod and flat tipped dial indicator using the = will show you exactly how much your 60* tip is off. groove = drill rod you know for sure what the depth is. By then taking the = the tip you are able to see how many thousands the tip is off. Once you = discrepensy. I know that my tip is off by .001". I found this is a good way to fine tune = also. If your reading is off with the 60* tip and it varies throughout = .001 in one place and .003 in another it is time to tune up the forms = variance is equal throughout the form. The slotted base also allows me to = of strips while in the form using the dial indicator and a flat tip. No = crused apex or dial calipers. Thanks to the rodmakes such as John = providing this valuable information. I hope some of the other new makers = have not come across this information finds it helpful. It certainly has = me! Best Regards,Adam Vigil from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Jul 25 19:22:31 2001 f6Q0MUZ26006 f6Q0MBK80841; f6Q0M3D21548; Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi Eric, Most rodmakers define the speed of the rod by the relative flexibility ofthe tip portion to the mid and butt portions. Relative stiff mid to tipbeing fast and more flexible mid to the same tip being slower. I realizethat many good rod designers do not use this definition. If you accept theabove definition, then a rod with a lower MOE in the butt is more flexibleat the butt relative to the tip hence is slower. I'm sure Wayne C can explain it far better and wish he would jump in hereand save me. The hinge is not merely a softer butt section but a reductionin stiffness about half way from the end in the butt section. I don't thinkthat a parabolic action alone is considered to include a hinge. Someonestop me; I'm out of my league. Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi Jim, I understand what you're saying about the loss in modulus as you get intothicker sections of the cane, but I'm not sure where you're applying it(fast rods or slow rods?). If it were that much of a factor wouldn't you beable to do without the hinge entirely and rely on the loss in modulus toprovide the additional flex needed in the butt section to enhance rollcasting? Not qualified to comment? With 4 rods under my belt I wasn't exactlyqualified to make the observations in the first place... That said, I guesswhat I'm picturing during the roll cast is somewhat similar to what happenswhen you cast a parabolic in that by allowing the rod to flex lower in thetaper, you actually increase the rod's power and line moving ability. Ofcourse I'm basing this on Garrison's stress calculations, which show the tipbarely working when there's not much line out...and just about everyone onthe list agrees that these calculations are far from perfect...and so quitepossibly my deductions from it. Cheers,Eric What may be happening is that the loss in modulus in thicker strips, soaccurately measured by Bob Milward, results in a softer butt sectionthanhexrod predicts. I recall that Garrison talked about adding a fewthousandths to butt sections of heavier weight rods. The problem isthatwhen we use the moment of inertia of a hexigon in hexrod, we have justassumed that the modulus of the rod is the same throughout. Your observations about roll casting are interesting, and I'm notqualifiedto comment. But I will. My impression is that the hinge delays thetransfer of energy enough so that the caster's natural power snap ismoreefficiently matched to the line inertia. If the caster were able toadjusthis stroke to achieve the same tip velocity, the hinge would not bebeneficial. I think it's a matter of making the stroke feel right tothecaster. Best regardsJim U from rjwlawed@msn.com Wed Jul 25 19:23:43 2001 f6Q0NgZ26157 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:23:28 -0700 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: How much is your tip off? FILETIME=[31878940:01C11569] thanks...ron ward----- Original Message ----- Subject: How much is your tip off? Setting my forms for a Para 15 light tip it came across my mind to share =a little something. Now I know there is very little new under the sun whe=n it comes to rodmaking so I post this for info and or review. When I set my form I use 2 methods to check and double check the settings=. First I use my dial indicator with a slotted base and 60* tip this is v=ery fast.. I then go over the form and double check the settings with a = h of groove. This method of using drill rods is very accurate and will sh=ow you exactly how much your 60* tip is off. e what the depth is. By then taking the reading with the tip you are able=to see how many thousands the tip is off. Once you know what the tip is =off by you then can proceed to use the tip allowing for discrepensy. I kn=ow that my tip is off by .001". I found this is a good way to fine tune the forms also. If your reading i=s off with the 60* tip and it varies throughout the form .001 in one plac=e and .003 in another it is time to tune up the forms until the variance =is equal throughout the form. The slotted base also allows me to measure the size of strips while in th=e form using the dial indicator and a flat tip. No more crused apex or di=al calipers. Thanks to the rodmakes such as John Bokstrom for providing this valuable =information. I hope some of the other new makers who have not comeacross=this information finds it helpful. It certainly has helped me! Best Regards,Adam Vigil gu= portion of drill shank above surface of form? &=nbsp;= Setting my forms for a Para 15 light=tip it came across my mind to share a little something. Now I know there =is very little new under the sun when it comes to rodmaking so I post thi= che=ck the settings. First I use my dial indicator with a slotted base and 60= the settings with a drill rod and flat tipped dial indicator using the fo= mea=surement of the groove with a drill rod you know for sure what the depth =is. By then taking the reading with the tip you are able to see how many =thousands the tip is off. Once you know what the tip is off by you then c=an proceed to use the tip allowing for discrepensy. I know that my tip is= ding is off with the 60* tip and it varies throughout the form .001 in on=e place and .003 in another it is time to tune up the forms until the var= The slotted base also allows me to measurethe=size of strips while in the form using the dial indicator and a flat tip= Thanks to the rodmakes such as JohnBokstr=om for providing this valuable information. I hope some of the other new =makers who have not come across this information finds it helpful. It cer= from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Jul 25 19:43:40 2001 f6Q0hdZ27328 RAA10537; Subject: Re: How much is your tip off? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Ron, That is exactly what it means. Just make sure your dial indicator is set =to 0 and no tip is needed Adam Vigil Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:23 PMSubject: Re: How much is your tip off? thanks...ron ward----- Original Message -----From: Adam VigilSent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: How much is your tip off? Setting my forms for a Para 15 light tip it came across my mind to =share a little something. Now I know there is very little new under the =sun when it comes to rodmaking so I post this for info and or review. When I set my form I use 2 methods to check and double check the =settings. First I use my dial indicator with a slotted base and 60* tip =this is very fast.. I then go over the form and double check the =settings with a drill rod and flat tipped dial indicator using the = very accurate and will show you exactly how much your 60* tip is off. are able to see how many thousands the tip is off. Once you know what =the tip is off by you then can proceed to use the tip allowing for =discrepensy. I know that my tip is off by .001". I found this is a good way to fine tune the forms also. If your =reading is off with the 60* tip and it varies throughout the form .001 =in one place and .003 in another it is time to tune up the forms until =the variance is equal throughout the form. The slotted base also allows me to measure the size of strips while =in the form using the dial indicator and a flat tip. No more crused apex =or dial calipers. Thanks to the rodmakes such as John Bokstrom for providing this =valuable information. I hope some of the other new makers who have not =come across this information finds it helpful. It certainly has helped =me! Best Regards,Adam Vigil Ron, That is exactly what it means. Just make sure = indicator is set to 0 and no tip is needed Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Ronald= ; rodmakers Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001= PMSubject: Re: How much is your = off? hi adam, others, ----- Original Message ----- Adam VigilSent: Wednesday, July 25, = PM Subject: How much is your tip = off? Setting my forms for a Para 15 = came across my mind to share a little something. Now I know there is = little new under the sun when it comes to rodmaking so I post this = and or review. When I set my form I use 2 methods= double check the settings. First I use my dial indicator with a = check the settings with a drill rod and flat tipped dial indicator = off. drill rod you know for sure what the depth is. By then taking the = with the tip you are able to see how many thousands the tip is off. = know what the tip is off by you then can proceed to use the tip = discrepensy. I know that my tip is off by .001". I found this is a good way to fine = forms also. If your reading is off with the 60* tip and it varies = the form .001 in one place and .003 in another it is time to tune up = forms until the variance is equal throughout the form. The slotted base also allows me to = size of strips while in the form using the dial indicator and a flat = more crused apex or dial calipers. Thanks to the rodmakes such asJohn = who have not come across this information finds it helpful. It = helped me! Best Regards,Adam Vigil from channer@frontier.net Wed Jul 25 20:11:03 2001 f6Q1B2Z28578 Subject: Re: How much is your tip off? Adam;It seems that once a year or so this conversation ressurects itself. Istill can't understand what all the fuss is about, set your forms withthe depth guage zero'd to the top of the form or another flat surface,plane the first strip and measure it, then re-adjust the form asneccessary. even if your point is dull, the strip will never be smallerthan the measurement set, a dull tip will make a reading that is toobig. I know my tools well enough to know that if I set my forms .003 toosmall, then the strip will come out just right. BTW, I use the 2 sidemeasurements, not the enamel to pith apex, it is too easy to dig thecaliper jaws into the pith.John Adam Vigil wrote: Setting my forms for a Para 15 light tip it came across my mind toshare a little something. Now I know there is very little new underthe sun when it comes to rodmaking so I post this for info and orreview. When I set my form I use 2 methods to check and double check thesettings. First I use my dial indicator with a slotted base and 60*tip this is very fast.. I then go over the form and double check thesettings with a drill rod and flat tipped dial indicator using theformula 1.5D-h= depth of groove. This method of using drill rods isvery accurate and will show you exactly how much your 60* tip is off. sure what the depth is. By then taking the reading with the tip youare able to see how many thousands the tip is off. Once you know whatthe tip is off by you then can proceed to use the tip allowing fordiscrepensy. I know that my tip is off by .001". I found this is a good way to fine tune the forms also. If yourreading is off with the 60* tip and it varies throughout the form .001in one place and .003 in another it is time to tune up the forms untilthe variance is equal throughout the form. The slotted base also allows me to measure the size of strips while inthe form using the dial indicator and a flat tip. No more crused apexor dial calipers. Thanks to the rodmakes such as John Bokstrom for providing thisvaluable information. I hope some of the other new makers who have notcome across this information finds it helpful. It certainly has helpedme! Best Regards,Adam Vigil from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jul 25 20:29:28 2001 f6Q1TRZ29272 Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Dear Jim/Eric:To me a hinge is a noticeable drop in thickness/meat of a section. It could occur in several places.Many rods have more than one hinge point. This is what causes the effect of a rod like the Driggs that will cast off the tip until you get 35'-40' out, and it will start to bend at the lower hinge and give access to the fuller more parabolic power of the rod.Hinge is not related to parabolic in any way accept that a parabolic would have a low hinge point if any. That is my understanding of it. I am sorry I have not followed the thread more closely.Best regards,Bob t 07:23 PM 7/25/2001 -0500, you wrote:The hinge is not merely a softer butt section but a reductionin stiffness about half way from the end in the butt section. I don't thinkthat a parabolic action alone is considered to include a hinge. from oandc@msn.com Wed Jul 25 20:45:14 2001 f6Q1jEZ29956 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:45:08 -0700 Subject: Dial Indicators FILETIME=[99E5D310:01C11574] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks everyone for your input on Indicators. I'll pick up an =inexpensive one now and upgrade when I'm rich and famous.Wayne Thanks everyone for your input on = famous.Wayne from cw@vanion.com Wed Jul 25 21:09:01 2001 f6Q291Z00742 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensee9bafdcb120a7d1559850f82300897dc) 0600 Subject: Removal of enamel This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks to all on the page, great imfo & tips.Chad Thanks to all on the page, great = tips.Chad from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed Jul 25 21:20:58 2001 f6Q2KvZ01219 Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Bob: Speaking of the Driggs River, the taper I have in the database says it's 87inches. Is it 87 or 84. 87 seems like an odd number. Could you export your Driggs River and email it to me so I can import ithere. Thanks Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Dear Jim/Eric:To me a hinge is a noticeable drop in thickness/meat of a section. Itcouldoccur in several places.Many rods have more than one hinge point. This is what causes the effectofa rod like the Driggs that will cast off the tip until you get 35'-40'out,and it will start to bend at the lower hinge and give access to the fullermore parabolic power of the rod.Hinge is not related to parabolic in any way accept that a parabolic wouldhave a low hinge point if any. That is my understanding of it. I am sorryIhave not followed the thread more closely.Best regards,Bob t 07:23 PM 7/25/2001 -0500, you wrote:The hinge is not merely a softer butt section but a reductionin stiffness about half way from the end in the butt section. I don'tthinkthat a parabolic action alone is considered to include a hinge. from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 22:10:49 2001 f6Q3AmZ02747 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:10:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy FILETIME=[879C2900:01C11580] If this definition is true than wouldn't all butt sections be the same?Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi Eric, Most rodmakers define the speed of the rod by the relative flexibility ofthe tip portion to the mid and butt portions. Relative stiff mid to tipbeing fast and more flexible mid to the same tip being slower. I realizethat many good rod designers do not use this definition. If you accepttheabove definition, then a rod with a lower MOE in the butt is more flexibleat the butt relative to the tip hence is slower. I'm sure Wayne C can explain it far better and wish he would jump in hereand save me. The hinge is not merely a softer butt section but areductionin stiffness about half way from the end in the butt section. I don'tthinkthat a parabolic action alone is considered to include a hinge. Someonestop me; I'm out of my league. Jim U----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:18 AMSubject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi Jim, I understand what you're saying about the loss in modulus as you getintothicker sections of the cane, but I'm not sure where you're applying it(fast rods or slow rods?). If it were that much of a factor wouldn't youbeable to do without the hinge entirely and rely on the loss in modulus toprovide the additional flex needed in the butt section to enhance rollcasting? Not qualified to comment? With 4 rods under my belt I wasn't exactlyqualified to make the observations in the first place... That said, Iguesswhat I'm picturing during the roll cast is somewhat similar to whathappenswhen you cast a parabolic in that by allowing the rod to flex lower in thetaper, you actually increase the rod's power and line moving ability. Ofcourse I'm basing this on Garrison's stress calculations, which show thetipbarely working when there's not much line out...and just about everyone onthe list agrees that these calculations are far from perfect...and soquitepossibly my deductions from it. Cheers,Eric What may be happening is that the loss in modulus in thicker strips,soaccurately measured by Bob Milward, results in a softer butt sectionthanhexrod predicts. I recall that Garrison talked about adding a fewthousandths to butt sections of heavier weight rods. The problem isthatwhen we use the moment of inertia of a hexigon in hexrod, we have justassumed that the modulus of the rod is the same throughout. Your observations about roll casting are interesting, and I'm notqualifiedto comment. But I will. My impression is that the hinge delays thetransfer of energy enough so that the caster's natural power snap ismoreefficiently matched to the line inertia. If the caster were able toadjusthis stroke to achieve the same tip velocity, the hinge would not bebeneficial. I think it's a matter of making the stroke feel right tothecaster. Best regardsJim U from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Jul 25 22:41:33 2001 f6Q3fXZ03740 f6Q3fNS52262; f6Q3fLv01832; Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy No. Because there are other characteristics to factor in such as power; thehinge Bob just defined better than I did, whatever you want to call theability to handle different cast line lengths or casting strokes; there'sprobably more.Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy If this definition is true than wouldn't all butt sections be the same?Mark----- Original Message -----From: Jim Utzerath Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:23 PMSubject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi Eric, Most rodmakers define the speed of the rod by the relative flexibilityofthe tip portion to the mid and butt portions. Relative stiff mid to tipbeing fast and more flexible mid to the same tip being slower. Irealizethat many good rod designers do not use this definition. If you accepttheabove definition, then a rod with a lower MOE in the butt is moreflexibleat the butt relative to the tip hence is slower. I'm sure Wayne C can explain it far better and wish he would jump inhereand save me. The hinge is not merely a softer butt section but areductionin stiffness about half way from the end in the butt section. I don'tthinkthat a parabolic action alone is considered to include a hinge. Someonestop me; I'm out of my league. Jim U----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:18 AMSubject: Re: Taper discoveries and heresy Hi Jim, I understand what you're saying about the loss in modulus as you getintothicker sections of the cane, but I'm not sure where you're applying it(fast rods or slow rods?). If it were that much of a factor wouldn'tyoubeable to do without the hinge entirely and rely on the loss in modulus toprovide the additional flex needed in the butt section to enhance rollcasting? Not qualified to comment? With 4 rods under my belt I wasn't exactlyqualified to make the observations in the first place... That said, Iguesswhat I'm picturing during the roll cast is somewhat similar to whathappenswhen you cast a parabolic in that by allowing the rod to flex lower inthetaper, you actually increase the rod's power and line moving ability.Ofcourse I'm basing this on Garrison's stress calculations, which show thetipbarely working when there's not much line out...and just about everyoneonthe list agrees that these calculations are far from perfect...and soquitepossibly my deductions from it. Cheers,Eric What may be happening is that the loss in modulus in thicker strips,soaccurately measured by Bob Milward, results in a softer butt sectionthanhexrod predicts. I recall that Garrison talked about adding a fewthousandths to butt sections of heavier weight rods. The problem isthatwhen we use the moment of inertia of a hexigon in hexrod, we havejustassumed that the modulus of the rod is the same throughout. Your observations about roll casting are interesting, and I'm notqualifiedto comment. But I will. My impression is that the hinge delays thetransfer of energy enough so that the caster's natural power snap ismoreefficiently matched to the line inertia. If the caster were able toadjusthis stroke to achieve the same tip velocity, the hinge would not bebeneficial. I think it's a matter of making the stroke feel righttothecaster. Best regardsJim U from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Jul 26 07:59:44 2001 f6QCxhZ13733 Subject: Table of Line weights Howdy all, Just wondered if anyone had a table of line weights for 90 yd lengths (or any length for that matter ) in either grains or ounces. Mark Wendt from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jul 26 08:17:26 2001 f6QDHPZ14765 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Table of Line weightsReferences: Mark,Line weights by AFTMA standards are only for the first 30' exclusive of level tip.Line Size Nominal Grain wt1 602 803 1004 1205 1406 1607 1858 2109 24010 28011 33012 380 A variance of +-6 grains is allowed for 1-5, 8 grains for 6-8, 10 grains Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Mark Wendt wrote: Howdy all, Just wondered if anyone had a table of line weights for 90 yd lengths ( or any length for that matter ) in either grains or ounces. Mark Wendt -- from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Jul 26 09:00:54 2001 f6QE0sZ18324 Subject: Re: Table of Line weights Yeah, my bad. Over active typing fingers, underactive mind...... 90' was what I was looking for, because in the Garrison book, he developed his tapers by taking the weight of the entire line, and getting the weight per inch. Thanks,Mark At 08:20 AM 7/26/2001 -0500, you wrote:Mark,Don't you mean 90 FOOT weights? I've never seen numbers on what the entire 90foot line weights. But I have several charts which provide weight ranges first 30 feet of fly line weight. There's one in Wayne Cattanach's book, I think. Harry Mark Wendt wrote: Howdy all, Just wondered if anyone had a table of line weights for 90 yd lengths ( orany length for that matter ) in either grains or ounces. Mark Wendt --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rjwlawed@msn.com Thu Jul 26 09:17:44 2001 f6QEHhZ19885 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:17:27 -0700 Subject: repair advice FILETIME=[B2DDA370:01C115DD] i got a mid section the other day from a friend that had crack in one=spline that went amost straight across the flat. real clean and all the =way to the apex as far as non- invasive examination would let me tell. th=e worst part is that is only about 1-1/2 inches away from the tip ferrule=, not a good spot as far as stress is concerned. it really whimped out th=e rod, i mean you could feel it had no power and see a prominent break in=the flex curve when you stood back and watched someone cast it.well, i put the usual repair wrap on it and that didn't really help mu=ch. as a second attemp,i wrapped the area with a piece of silk and then p=ut a repair-wrap over that and got the same results..... after casting yo=u could see that the epoxy was streatching right at the break,and after a= it's not a high end rod and i know i could cut the section off and re-f=errule. my friend said that was ok and he could live with the shorter sec=tion, or i could scarf on a piece,but i don't yet have the equipement to =make a little section of rod. i was wondering if anyone knew a good way t=o fix a break like this without going to that extreme. thanks guys........ron ward hi fellas, real clean and all the way to the apex as far as non- invasive examinati=on would let me tell. the worst part is that is only about 1-1/2 inches a=way from the tip ferrule, not a good spot as far as stress is concerned. =it really whimped out the rod, i mean you could feel it had no power and =see a prominent break in the flex curve when you stood back and watched s= on it and that didn't really help much. as a second attemp,i wrapped the=area with a piece of silk and then put a repair-wrap over that and got t=he same results..... after casting you could see that the epoxy was strea=tching right at the break,and after a few casts, there was a white line r= know i could cut the section off and re-ferrule. my friend said that was =ok and he could live with the shorter section, or i could scarf on a piec=e,but i don't yet have the equipement to make a little section of rod. i =was wondering if anyone knew a good way to fix a break like this without = guys.......=.ron ward from rjwlawed@msn.com Thu Jul 26 09:22:07 2001 f6QEM6Z20618 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:22:01 -0700 Subject: word choice!!!!! FILETIME=[55E55360:01C115DE] that earlier post had the subject matter of "repair advice" in it. i just=realized as i pushed the send button that maye i shouldn't have used tha=t word "advice"...sorry if i alarmed anyone, i assure you my pc is virus =free!!!!! if you deleted the message let me know and i'll repost. thatearlier p=ost had the subject matter of "repair advice" in it. i just realized as i=pushed the send button that maye i shouldn't have used that word "advice="...sorry if i alarmed anyone, i assure you my pc is virus free!!!!! if y=ou deleted the message let me know and i'llrepost. from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jul 26 09:29:05 2001 f6QET4Z21733 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Table of Line weights Mark,Once you get past 30' each line model is different. The Striper taper, Bass-bug taper, Bonefish taper, etc., of just one manufacturer will all differ in total weight, though they all may be 8wt. No manufacturer, to the best of my knowledge, has released information on the total weight of their fly lines.Why not just divide the 30' weight by 360, to get the weight per inch most casts?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Mark Wendt wrote: Yeah, my bad. Over active typing fingers, underactive mind...... 90' was what I was looking for, because in the Garrison book, he developed his tapers by taking the weight of the entire line, and getting the weight per inch. Thanks,Mark At 08:20 AM 7/26/2001 -0500, you wrote: Mark,Don't you mean 90 FOOT weights? I've never seen numbers on what the entire 90foot line weights. But I have several charts which provide weight ranges for thefirst 30 feet of fly line weight. There's one in Wayne Cattanach's book, I think. Harry from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Jul 26 09:54:16 2001 f6QEsGZ25067 Subject: Re: Table of Line weights Reed, Thanks for the info. Didn't realize there was that much difference in the lines not only of different manufacturers, but even internally with the same manufacturer. So it would seem the average of the first 30' would be the way to go. Mark At 10:31 AM 7/26/2001 -0400, you wrote:Mark,Once you get past 30' each line model is different. The Striper taper, Bass-bug taper, Bonefish taper, etc., of just one manufacturer will all differ in total weight, though they all may be 8wt. No manufacturer, to the best of my knowledge, has released information on the total weight of their fly lines.Why not just divide the 30' weight by 360, to get the weight per inch for most casts?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Mark Wendt wrote: Yeah, my bad. Over active typing fingers, underactive mind...... 90' was what I was looking for, because in the Garrison book, he developed his tapers by taking the weight of the entire line, and getting the weight per inch.Thanks,Mark At 08:20 AM 7/26/2001 -0500, you wrote: Mark,Don't you mean 90 FOOT weights? I've never seen numbers on what the entire 90foot line weights. But I have several charts which provide weight ranges for thefirst 30 feet of fly line weight. There's one in Wayne Cattanach's book, I think.Harry from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Jul 26 11:08:50 2001 f6QG8nZ00107 Subject: Re: Millward on Garrison Stress Curves In a message dated 7/20/2001 1:35:23 AM Central Daylight Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: I think that that is the heart of the value of Garrisson stress curves. They quickly and accurately define the 'character' of the rod. All other variables are hatched from the type of taper you are dealing with. I think that is why I have such a mistrust of computer generated tapers. they are fine as a starting point but much is still left to the rodmakers understanding of how a taper works. Not so much in changing from one line size to another but critical when you change the length of the rod or try to change from a 2 to a 3 pc. I have never thought a para taper worked wortha hoot as a three pc , aparrent why when you see that the butt ferrule is in the way of the para developing its power in a smooth and controlledfashion.A.J.Thramer I'm interested in A. J.'s comments on the three piece para tapers. I've built several paras as 2 pc and would like to have a more transportable -- backpackable -- rod and so have been considering building 3 pc versions. Are A.J.'s comments more universally shared by other list members or based onhis experiences? Currently, I'm in Colorado testing out this years builds. So far no disappointments. Mark Cole In a message dated7/20/2001 1:35:23 AM Central Daylight Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: I think that thatis the heart of the value of Garrisson stress curves. They quickly and accurately define the 'character' of the rod. All other variables are hatched from the type of taper you are dealing with. Ithink that is why I have such a mistrust of computer generated tapers. theyare fine as a starting point but much is still left to the rodmakers understanding of how a taper works. Not so much in changing from oneline size to another but critical when you change the length of the rod ortry to change from a 2 to a 3 pc. I have never thought a para taper workedworth a hoot as a three pc , aparrent why when you see that the butt ferrule isin the way of the para developing its power in a smooth and controlledfashion.A.J.Thramer I'm interested in A. J.'s comments on the three piece para tapers. I'vebuilt several paras as 2 pc and would like to have a more transportable -- backpackable -- rod and so have been considering building 3 pc versions.Are A.J.'s comments more universally shared by other list members orbased on his experiences? Currently, I'm in Colorado testing out this years builds. So far no disappointments. Mark Cole from oborge@mwt.net Thu Jul 26 11:58:11 2001 f6QGwBZ02905 f6QGw4902819; Subject: RE: Table of Line weights The below table is copied from Cortland Line literature. AFTMA Fly Line StandardsThese standards are based on the weight of the workingpart of the line - the first 30 ft., exclusive of thetip on a taper. The weight is in grains. WT weight RangeCode grains grains1 60 54-662 80 74- 863 100 94-1064 120 114-1265 140 134-1466 160 152-1687 185 177-1938 210 202-2189 240 230-25010 280 270-29011 330 318-34212 380 368-392 Grains = grams x 15.43236 Olaf BorgeSilk fly lines bought and soldE6907 Monument Rock RoadFranklin Township Vernon County WisconsinURL: www.silkflylines.comMail: P.O. Box 361 Viroqua, Wisconsin 54665Email: oborge@mwt.netPhone: 608-675-3509 Fax: 608-675-3681 -----Original Message----- Subject: Table of Line weights Howdy all, Just wondered if anyone had a table of line weights for 90 yd lengths (orany length for that matter ) in either grains or ounces. Mark Wendt from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Jul 26 11:58:45 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f6QGwiZ03041 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: repair advice This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I should begin by saying that I'm no expert. But I've had the chance torepair several kinds of breaks, including a couple at scarf joints innodeless strips that somewhat resemble your situation. Anyway I've beenimpressed with what the new polyurethane glues can do. You probably knowthat they foam as they set, and so tend to fill available space. I'd usetiny slivers of scrap bamboo to work the glue into the split, while flexingit to open the split as far as possible without doing more damage. Then wrapthe area firmly with ferrule binding cord -- I use the stuff Golden Witchsells. Wrap it with severl layers, to force the glue to stay in the splitwhile it sets. I've found that the foaming does NOT create pressure thatwill broaden the split, the excess glue can still foam out around thewrapping. It's important to keep it wrapped for about 4 hours, and then waitat least another 24 hours (assuming approximate room temp) beforestressingit. Although I haven't found any documentation to support this, it's also myimpression that the glue hardens further and bonds more strongly afteranother 2 weeks. I've been using Gorilla glue and the Elmers version, Ithink that's called Polybond but not sure on that brand name. Still may wantto do a repair wrap but as you've found that probably doesn't add much. Barry Kling -----Original Message----- Subject: repair advice hi fellas, i got a mid section the other day from a friend that had crack in onespline that went amost straight across the flat. real clean and all the wayto the apex as far as non- invasive examination would let me tell. the worstpart is that is only about 1-1/2 inches away from the tip ferrule, not agood spot as far as stress is concerned. it really whimped out the rod, imean you could feel it had no power and see a prominent break in the flexcurve when you stood back and watched someone cast it.well, i put the usual repair wrap on it and that didn't really help much.as a second attemp,i wrapped the area with a piece of silk and then put arepair-wrap over that and got the same results..... after casting you couldsee that the epoxy was streatching right at the break,and after a few casts,there was a white line right at the break. it's not a high end rod and i know i could cut the section off andre-ferrule. my friend said that was ok and he could live with the shortersection, or i could scarf on a piece,but i don't yet have the equipement tomake a little section of rod. i was wondering if anyone knew a good way tofix a break like this without going to that extreme. thanks guys........ron ward I shouldbegin by saying that I'm no expert. But I've had the chance to repair several kinds of breaks, including a couple at scarf joints in nodeless resemble your situation. Anyway I've been impressed with what the new polyurethane glues can do. You probably know that they foam as they set,and so tend to fill available space. I'd use tiny slivers of scrap bamboo to work the binding foaming does NOT create pressure that will broaden the split, the excessglue can still foam out around the wrapping. It's important to keep it wrapped for about 4 hours, and then wait at least another 24 hours (assumingapproximate documentation to support this, it's also my impression that the glue hardens further andbonds more strongly after another 2 weeks. I've been using Gorilla glue and theElmers version, I think that's called Polybond but not sure on that brand name. Still may want to do a repair wrap but as you've found that probably doesn't add much. Barry Kling -----Original Message-----From: Ronald Ward 9:17 advicehi fellas, real clean and all the way to the apex as far as non- invasive examination would let me tell. the worst part is that is only about 1-1/2 inches away from the tip ferrule, not a good spot as far as stress is concerned. it really whimped out the rod, i mean you could feel it had no power and see a prominentbreak in the flex curve when you stood back and watched someone cast it. really help much. as a second attemp,i wrapped the area with a piece of silk and then put a repair-wrap over that and got the same results..... after casting you could see that the epoxy was streatching right at the break,and after a few casts, there was a white line right at the break. off and re-ferrule. my friend said that was ok and he could live with the shorter section, or i could scarf on a piece,but i don't yet have the equipement to make a little section of rod. i was wondering if anyone knew a good way to fix a break like this without going to that ward from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Jul 26 12:11:11 2001 f6QHBAZ04114 Subject: Varnish Cracks at Ferrules Just cast my newest rod last night. Varnish is only 24 hours old, but Icouldn't wait any longer. Ended up with a crack in the varnish right at thejoint between NS and cane on the butt section (it's a 3pc. rod). Themetal- to-cane fit on this rod is the best I've managed yet. Oninstallation, the ferrule slid smoothly but tightly onto the cane. Thearea is wrapped with 3/0 silk, and has 5 or 6 coats of spar varnish. Onearea of possible operator error is that I may not have tapered/thinned theserrated portion of the ferrule well enough. Are cracks in the varnish at this point inevitable, or is there somethingthat can be done to prevent them? James M. Piotrowski from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Jul 26 12:14:41 2001 f6QHEeZ04518 Subject: Re: repair advice This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Ronald,I don't believe there is a really good way to fix that type of failure. =What you're face with is making a new tip section, shortening the =existing section or splicing on a short section.Considering that it is an inexpensive rod to start with and noting that =the owner is ok with a shorter section, I'd go that way.Ray Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:17 AMSubject: repair advice i got a mid section the other day from a friend that had crack in =one spline that went amost straight across the flat. real clean and all =the way to the apex as far as non- invasive examination would let me =tell. the worst part is that is only about 1-1/2 inches away from the =tip ferrule, not a good spot as far as stress is concerned. it really =whimped out the rod, i mean you could feel it had no power and see a =prominent break in the flex curve when you stood back and watched =someone cast it.well, i put the usual repair wrap on it and that didn't really help =much. as a second attemp,i wrapped the area with a piece of silk and =then put a repair-wrap over that and got the same results..... after =casting you could see that the epoxy was streatching right at the = it's not a high end rod and i know i could cut the section off and =re-ferrule. my friend said that was ok and he could live with the =shorter section, or i could scarf on a piece,but i don't yet have the =equipement to make a little section of rod. i was wondering if anyone =knew a good way to fix a break like this without going to that extreme. thanks guys........ron ward Hi Ronald,I don't believe there is a really good way to = type of failure. What you're face with is making a new tip section, = the existing section or splicing on a short section.Considering that it is an inexpensive rod to = way.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Ronald= Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 = AMSubject: repair advice hi fellas, clean and all the way to the apex as far as non- invasive examination = let me tell. the worst part is that is only about 1-1/2 inches away = tip ferrule, not a good spot as far as stress is concerned. it really = out the rod, i mean you could feel it had no power and see a prominent = in the flex curve when you stood back and watched someone cast =it. really help much. as a second attemp,i wrapped the area with a piece = and then put a repair-wrap over that and got the same results..... = casting you could see that the epoxy was streatching right at the = after a few casts, there was a white line right at the break. off and re-ferrule. my friend said that was ok and he could live with = equipement to make a little section of rod. i was wondering if anyone = ward from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 12:22:15 2001 f6QHMEZ05303 KAA19276 Subject: 60* check, where is it? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Okay after spending 20 minutes looking for my 60* starret check my =blood pressure is starting to climb. I know I just had it, but it has =suddenly disapeared. Somebody must have moved it. After questioning the =household no luck. Hey wait a minute wasn't that neighbor kid just in =here? Where the hell can that check be? Maybe if I lift everything off =the work table for the tenth time it will miracuously reappear. Damn it =where could it be. Now I will have to find a machine supply locally and =buy another. Sh**! Oh wait a minute there it is under the spec sheet for =my rod. Has anyone else had the shop gremlins move the 60* check? Or is it just =me? Well I showed them I just drilled a hole through it and hung it =around my neck with some ribbon. Look kind of hippie like. Seemed like a =good idea to me! Adam Vigil Okay after spending 20 minutes looking= questioning the household no luck. Hey wait a minute wasn't that = just in here? Where the hell can that check be? Maybe if I lift = the work table for the tenth time it will miracuously reappear. Damn it = could it be. Now I will have to find a machine supply locally and buy = Sh**! Oh wait a minute there it is under the spec sheet for my =rod. Has anyone else had the shop gremlins= check? Or is it just me? Well I showed them I just drilled a hole = hung it around my neck with some ribbon. Look kind of hippie like. = good idea to me! AdamVigil from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Jul 26 12:24:25 2001 f6QHOOZ05542 Subject: Leonard This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Does anyone on the list have the wrap and tipping specs for a 9'-0" x =3pc x 2 tip Leonard rod stamped with: Special Tournament, The Leonard =Rod, H.L. Leonard Rod Co., Makers.Ray Does anyone on the list have the wrap = specs for a 9'-0" x 3pc x 2 tip Leonard rod stamped with: Special = The Leonard Rod, H.L. Leonard Rod Co., Makers.Ray from rsgould@cmc.net Thu Jul 26 12:34:05 2001 f6QHY4Z06376 Subject: Re: Varnish Cracks at Ferrules Hi Jim,What you have encountered is a common problem all of us face and it'sdifficult to overcome. One of the best ways to deal with it is a combinationof several steps. First of all the fit of the fewrrule onto the cane shouldbe so tight as to require it to be tapped on with a mallet about the last3/8" or so. If you can slide it on, it's too loose. Secondly as you suggestthin down the ferrule as much as you dare at the serrated end. Thirdly, cutv-notches in the serrated end centered on the serrations and cut as deep asthe length of the serration. Cut the v-notches after the ferrule has beenthinned down. Bind the ferrule with string tightly while the glue dries andbe very careful in removing the string and the excess glue not to loosen theferrule tabs.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Varnish Cracks at Ferrules Just cast my newest rod last night. Varnish is only 24 hours old, but Icouldn't wait any longer. Ended up with a crack in the varnish right atthejoint between NS and cane on the butt section (it's a 3pc. rod). Themetal-to-cane fit on this rod is the best I've managed yet. Oninstallation, the ferrule slid smoothly but tightly onto the cane. Thearea is wrapped with 3/0 silk, and has 5 or 6 coats of spar varnish. Onearea of possible operator error is that I may not have tapered/thinned theserrated portion of the ferrule well enough. Are cracks in the varnish at this point inevitable, or is there somethingthat can be done to prevent them? James M. Piotrowski from rjwlawed@msn.com Thu Jul 26 13:27:43 2001 f6QIRhZ08928 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:27:38 -0700 Subject: garage gremlins.... FILETIME=[A5EC4360:01C11600] ooohhhhh let's see,pencils, screws, screwdrivers, cabinet pieces, battery drills, wrench=es, drillbits, chuck keys, hammers, tapes(they really like tapemeasures) =dile calipers, what dii leave out? they must have a whole set of my tools=!!!! ooohhhhhlet's= cabine=t pieces, battery drills, wrenches, drillbits, chuck keys, hammers, tapes=(they really like tapemeasures) dile calipers, what dii leave out? they m=ust have a whole set of my tools!!!! from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jul 26 14:03:44 2001 f6QJ3hZ10676 Subject: A Question To the List,Things seem slow these days (only 30 a day) so let me ask about atroublesome problem.First some background. On our home spring creeks in the East we typicallyenjoy an AM Trico hatch, then a sociable lunch followed by PM terrestrialfishing consisting of a streamside stalk which involves walking along abrushy path and looking for a trout either sipping or in favorable position.It's often a single cast situation, either success or a spooked fish. Thenmy ant gets hooked to the rod keeper and on we go slyly to the next target.And therein lies my problem. When I get ready to cast in the new location myleader is invariably twisted around the guides and by the time I go throughthe untwist contortions my quarry is often gone. Now this problem somehowseems to involve rod properties because it's worse with some combinationsthan with others, for no apparent reason.If anyone has encountered this problem and come up with a solution I'dsure appreciate hearing about it. Thanks. Bill from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jul 26 17:40:04 2001 f6QMe3Z17331 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:40:33 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:36:15 -0400 Subject: RE: 60* check, where is it? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Oddly enough, of all things, that's the one that never seems to disappear. Isometimes wonder if the thing is possessed and is keeping an eye on me. Nowmy car keys (along with 10 other keys on the chain) and much bigger itemslike a favorite hat...or a whole rod with its case....that's another story.I wonder if I can start my car with the 60* check? -----Original Message----- Subject: 60* check, where is it? Okay after spending 20 minutes looking for my 60* starret check my bloodpressure is starting to climb. I know I just had it, but it has suddenlydisapeared. Somebody must have moved it. After questioning the householdnoluck. Hey wait a minute wasn't that neighbor kid just in here? Where thehell can that check be? Maybe if I lift everything off the work table forthe tenth time it will miracuously reappear. Damn it where could it be. NowI will have to find a machine supply locally and buy another. Sh**! Oh waita minute there it is under the spec sheet for my rod. Has anyone else had the shop gremlins move the 60* check? Or is it just me?Well I showed them I just drilled a hole through it and hung it around myneck with some ribbon. Look kind of hippie like. Seemed like a good idea tome! Adam Vigil Oddly enough, of all things, that's the one that never seems to disappear. Isometimes wonder if the thing is possessed and is keeping an eye on me. Now my carkeys (along with 10 other keys on the chain) and much bigger items like a favorite hat...or a whole rod with its case....that's another story. I wonder if I can start my car with the 60* check? Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: 60* check, where is it? Okay after spending 20 minutes looking formy 60* had it, but it has suddenly disapeared. Somebody must have moved it. After questioning the household no luck. Hey wait a minute wasn't that neighborkid just in here? Where the hell can that check be? Maybe if I lift everything off the work table for the tenth time it will miracuously reappear. Damn itwhere could it be. Now I will have to find a machine supply locally and buy another. Sh**! Oh wait a minute there it is under the spec sheet for my rod. Has anyone else had the shop gremlinsmove the 60* check? Or is it just me? Well I showed them I just drilled a hole through it and hung it around my neck with some ribbon. Look kind of hippie like. Seemed like a good idea to me! AdamVigil from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jul 26 17:44:51 2001 f6QMipZ17779 sender ) Subject: Re: repair advice If the break caused some delamination (which it sounds like). Pin openthe break and the delams and force glue down the joints with the edge ofsome paper. Really work it down in there. Bind the repair and after it'sdry scrape the glue residue. You can now put a repair wrap over thebreak . Marty Ronald Ward wrote: hi fellas, i got a mid section the other day from a friend that hadcrack in one spline that went amost straight across the flat. realclean and all the way to the apex as far as non- invasive examinationwould let me tell. the worst part is that is only about 1-1/2 inchesaway from the tip ferrule, not a good spot as far as stress isconcerned. it really whimped out the rod, i mean you could feel it hadno power and see a prominent break in the flex curve when you stoodback and watched someone cast it. well, i put the usual repair wrapon it and that didn't really help much. as a second attemp,i wrappedthe area with a piece of silk and then put a repair-wrap over that andgot the same results..... after casting you could see that the epoxywas streatching right at the break,and after a few casts, there was awhite line right at the break. it's not a high end rod and i know icould cut the section off and re-ferrule. my friend said that was okand he could live with the shorter section, or i could scarf on apiece,but i don't yet have the equipement to make a little section ofrod. i was wondering if anyone knew a good way to fix a break likethis without going to that extreme. thanks guys........ron ward from cole_man@swbell.net Thu Jul 26 17:51:31 2001 f6QMpUZ18128 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) Subject: Fw: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Meant to send this to entire list ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes A good example of this construction is a cedar strip canoe. Durability isachieved through the fiberglass "sheath" yet the beauty of the wood showsthrough this transparent sheath. It also is fairly easy to refinish orevenrepair fairly extensive damage. ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 6:52 AMSubject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Back when we had an active wood shop in our facility, we purchased a lotof fiberglasscloth. One of them was a paper thin, random weave cloth. The weightescapesme at the moment, but I seem to recall it being 10 oz cloth. It didtrulydisappearwhen coated with epoxy, and took a very small amount to becomesaturated. Larry Blan Ha, I have enough work trying to make some rods ready for my greatoneyear imigration to New Zealand in December. But I'm sure it will work great,ask some boat builders using the "West System" or like. It won't bedifficultat all, just make sure You get the finest fiber possible.......danny From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Interesting, hadn't thought of that effect. Would liketo know how it turns out. Could you let me know if youdo go ahead and do it, how it turns out? Thanks,Bill Walters --- Danny Twang wrote:Yes on the outside. The fibre glass will turninvisible (like white silk)when epoxy is applyed. It will look like the wood isvarnished...... danny From: Bill Walters Subject: Re: Dressing up PVC rod tubes Danny, are you thinking of doing this on theoutsideof the tube, or the inside? Outside would do awaywiththe reason for making it out of wood (looks), butdoing this on the inside somehow, might give itthenecessary strength. Bill W.--- Danny Twang wrote:I've been thinking of using the finest weavedfibreglass and wrap it aroundthe hex case, and dress with epoxy (like whenbuilding boat). Then the casewill take quite a bit beating before it breaksintopieces........ danny __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minutewith Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo!Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ http://www.provide.net from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jul 26 18:17:51 2001 f6QNHpZ18724 f6QNHo525573 Subject: Re: 60* check, where is it? Twice in the past year I have planed out 12 tipstrips only to find ten when I get them ready toglue.I know I had 12, I had one for each finger and twomore. That makes twelve don't it.Never did find the other two planed strips eithertime.BTW, my shop is 5 1/2' wide and 25' long.How can you loose anything in that small space.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Adam VigilSent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:28 PM Subject: 60* check, where is it? Okay after spending 20 minutes looking pressure is starting to climb. I knowI just had it, but it has suddenlydisapeared. Somebody must have movedit. After questioning the household noluck. Hey wait a minute wasn't thatneighbor kid just in here? Where thehell can that check be? Maybe if Ilift everything off the work table forthe tenth time it will miracuouslyreappear. Damn it where could it be.Now I will have to find a machinesupply locally and buy another. Sh**!Oh wait a minute there it is under thespec sheet for my rod. Has anyone elsehad the shop gremlins move the 60*check? Or is it just me? Well I showedthem I just drilled a hole through itand hung it around my neck with someribbon. Look kind of hippie like.Seemed like a good idea to me! AdamVigil from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Jul 26 18:19:35 2001 f6QNJUZ18917 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:20:06 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:15:50 -0400 Subject: better tipping through tweezers and varnish rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Just a tip that seems to work for me that I thought I would post...perhapsthere are other comments on the topic. If not that's fine too. I found that fumbling with tipping can be made easier with a pair offorceps/tweezers. When just doing 3 or 4 turns or wraps, I typically go anextra turn or two and pull out the first turn or two ( from underneath,pulling in the direction I am wrapping) as I pack the threads toward themain wraps. This gets me back to the 3 or 4 I want and the threads are niceand tight. I then use forceps or tweezers to put the end thru the loop.Using the tweezers makes it much easier. You can just grab the end and putit right thru the loop without fingers getting in the way or losing sight ofwhat you're doing. I leave the two ends long enough so I can pull them tight if they loosen upand use a technique someone once mentioned on the list. I apply a coat ofvarnish with a brush to the wraps. When that dries I can easily cut off theends with a razor without worrying that it will come undone. On the mainwraps it's easy to cut off the ends and bury the cut off end, but on tippingit isn't always so easy to do that wihtout the whole thing unraveling. Just a there are other comments on the topic. If not that's finetoo. I an underneath, pulling in the direction I am wrapping) as I pack the threads toward the main wraps. This gets me back to the 3 or 4 I want and the threads are nice and tight. I then use forceps or tweezers to put the end thru the loop. Using the tweezers makes it much easier. You can just grab the end and put it rightthru the loop without fingers getting in the way or losing sight of what you're doing. I up and use a technique someone once mentioned on the list. I apply a coat of the ends with a razor without worrying that it will come undone. On the mainwraps tipping it isn't always so easy to do that wihtout the whole thing unraveling. from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jul 26 18:38:03 2001 f6QNc2Z19439 Subject: PVC Rod Tubes Hi Darryl,There is available a thin walled PVC tubing which measures 1 1/2 inch IDand has the same OD as the 1 1/4 inch standard version. I have been able toinsert 4 rod sections with room perhaps for another in this tubing. Here inthe East it's available only from sprinkler system installers, not mostplumbing supply houses. All standard fittings seem to fit it but I'm notsure you could cut threads into the thin wall version. It performs for me. Bill from oandc@msn.com Thu Jul 26 19:01:22 2001 f6R01MZ20015 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:01:01 -0700 Subject: Contact Points and Center guage FILETIME=[38D56E30:01C1162F] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Would you believe it. No one in this burg I live in, including Munnell & =Sherrill, stocks a center guage or 60 degree point. Who knows a good =online dealer that sells both? Would appreciate the info. Thanks,Wayne Would you believe it. No one in this = in, including Munnell & Sherrill, stocks a center guage or 60 degree = Who knows a good online dealer that sells both? Would appreciate the = Thanks,Wayne from cw@vanion.com Thu Jul 26 19:30:07 2001 f6R0U6Z20591 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensee9bafdcb120a7d1559850f82300897dc) 0600 Subject: Another tip This is a multi-part message in MIME format. shallow hole in the benchtop next to my form, when I go to pick up a =spline of bamboo I slide it over the hole, and it's easy to pick it =up... fingernails- I drilled a 3/4" shallow hole in the benchtop next to = when I go to pick up a spline of bamboo I slide it over the hole, and = to pick it up... from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jul 26 19:48:13 2001 f6R0mCZ21046 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:40:45 -0700 Subject: Re: A Question Bill,I know some folks don't like to do so, but I have found that wrapping theleader around the spool of the reel and hooking the fly into a guide worksmuchbetter than a hook-keeper. The straight line distance from the tiptop to thereel spool keeps the line away from the guides, and it _seems_ to foul uplessoften. Works for me,Harry Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Things seem slow these days (only 30 a day) so let me ask about atroublesome problem.First some background. On our home spring creeks in the East wetypicallyenjoy an AM Trico hatch, then a sociable lunch followed by PM terrestrialfishing consisting of a streamside stalk which involves walking along abrushy path and looking for a trout either sipping or in favorable position.It's often a single cast situation, either success or a spooked fish. Thenmy ant gets hooked to the rod keeper and on we go slyly to the nexttarget.And therein lies my problem. When I get ready to cast in the new locationmyleader is invariably twisted around the guides and by the time I go throughthe untwist contortions my quarry is often gone. Now this problemsomehowseems to involve rod properties because it's worse with somecombinationsthan with others, for no apparent reason.If anyone has encountered this problem and come up with a solution I'dsure appreciate hearing about it. Thanks. Bill --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jul 26 20:18:55 2001 f6R1IsZ21748 f6R1Io510692;Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:18:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Another tip That works good too when trying to pick up a razorblade with finger clots on.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com chad wigham wrote: fingernails- I drilled a 3/4" shallow hole inthe benchtop next to my form, when I go to pickup a spline of bamboo I slide it over the hole,and it's easy to pick it up... from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Thu Jul 26 20:40:43 2001 f6R1efZ22352 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:40:37 +1000 Subject: Re: A Question FILETIME=[230F35A0:01C1163D] Bill: I endorse what Harry says. It keeps the leader knot/connectoroutside the top ring, and in addition there is less chance of hookingyour finger than if the hook is in a keeper just above the handle. Sean Harry Boyd wrote: Bill,I know some folks don't like to do so, but I have found that wrapping theleader around the spool of the reel and hooking the fly into a guide worksmuchbetter than a hook-keeper. The straight line distance from the tiptop tothereel spool keeps the line away from the guides, and it _seems_ to foul uplessoften. Works for me,Harry Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Things seem slow these days (only 30 a day) so let me ask about atroublesome problem.First some background. On our home spring creeks in the East wetypicallyenjoy an AM Trico hatch, then a sociable lunch followed by PM terrestrialfishing consisting of a streamside stalk which involves walking along abrushy path and looking for a trout either sipping or in favorable position.It's often a single cast situation, either success or a spooked fish. Thenmy ant gets hooked to the rod keeper and on we go slyly to the nexttarget.And therein lies my problem. When I get ready to cast in the new locationmyleader is invariably twisted around the guides and by the time I gothroughthe untwist contortions my quarry is often gone. Now this problemsomehowseems to involve rod properties because it's worse with somecombinationsthan with others, for no apparent reason.If anyone has encountered this problem and come up with a solution I'dsure appreciate hearing about it. Thanks. Bill --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 20:56:35 2001 f6R1uZZ22873 SAA04779; Subject: Re: Contact Points and Center guage This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Wayne, Try www.nolansupply.com They have good prices. Adam Vigil Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 5:02 PMSubject: Contact Points and Center guage Would you believe it. No one in this burg I live in, including Munnell =& Sherrill, stocks a center guage or 60 degree point. Who knows a good =online dealer that sells both? Would appreciate the info. Thanks,Wayne Wayne, Try www.nolansupply.com They have good prices. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- oandc = Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 = PMSubject: Contact Points and = guage Would you believe it. No one in this = in, including Munnell & Sherrill, stocks a center guage or 60 = point. Who knows a good online dealer that sells both? Would = info. Thanks,Wayne from tcwege@earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 21:08:15 2001 f6R28EZ23326 TAA26367 Subject: Rod ID Question Hi All,Just had this question come by and thought I would throw it out to one andall:The poster received a H-I Cunningham rod in good condition. I looked inSinclair's Restoration book and see a price listing of $30 and the fact thisrod was produced in the 1930's. Sorry I have not had time to read the bookas of yet. Is the $30 in 1930's value? That would be a rather nice rod!Any info about this rod would be appreciated.Thanks,Tilo from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jul 26 22:51:44 2001 f6R3phZ26030 Subject: Milward on glues Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jvswan@earthlink.net Thu Jul 26 23:12:28 2001 f6R4CRZ26799 (209.181.151.114) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: Milward on glues Sorry, Harry. I'm not sure what "bond creep" is. I'm sure I haven'texperienced it, but I would like to know what is (or might be) so I can beon the look out. Thanks, Jason On 7/26/01 9:47 PM, "Harry Boyd" wrote: Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jul 26 23:20:48 2001 f6R4KkZ27187 Subject: Re: Milward on glues I've never experienced it in anything I've ever seen personaly but in boatbuilding there are certain times epoxys are not recomended though there arepeople who do use it in these cases and presumably it works for them, thenagain maybe not in the long run.Epoxy is not recomended for laminating large sections of timber. In otherwords if you're laminating a large beam say 12" thick you're looking fortrouble if you laminate 3 x 4" laminations while if you use 12 x 1"laminations you'd be ok.The other use epoxys are not recomended and again people do this and youdon't hear of problems though that's not to say you never will islaminating masts and spars where resorcinol is the glue that should be usedin these cases.It does seem that large sections of wood will work against the bond andcause failure in the case or beams and masts flexing all the time will alsofail and this is thought to be due to epoxy creep.Actually there is another place epoxys shouldn't be used and that's inkeels because epoxy isn't actually water proof. I know people who have usedit in laminated keels and are still as happy as a yacht owner can beexpected to be but there are lots of bolts passed throught yacht keels tohold the weight on and these may be enough to prevent delamination,possibly.....In all the above cases apart from the keel which is wet in parts andtherefore has a seperate problem the creep is associated with laminationsthat are too thick relative to the finished assembly and could be thoughtof as a ratio like 1:12 in the case of the beam which is 12" finished madeup of 1" laminations or 4:12 (1:3) in the case of 4 laminations of 3" thick.Working this out for a mast is trickier because there are 4 sections makinga box so different to a beam (just like rods) and the mast is normallyhollow but interestingly you normally use laminations of around 25% of thecross section of the mast so that's back in the danger level. A rod wouldbe trickier to determine still but I'd imagine the splines:cross sectionwould never exceed this danger level so there shouldn't be a problem usingthe recomended epoxys for rods unless you somehow manage to use itbeforecooling down after being left in a car with the windows up in the middle ofa Perth summer for example. Tony At 10:47 PM 7/26/01 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jul 26 23:39:52 2001 f6R4dpZ27733 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:33:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Milward on glues Tony,You seem to have at least heard of "bond-creep". Would you help meunderstand it a little please? Is this a phenomenon of allowing the gluedpieces (in our case six, or four, or in some cases even five pieces) to slidein relationship to one another? Is it the glue which slides, or does the bondbetween the glue and the laminate? Or am I asking all the wrong questions? Harry Tony Young wrote: I've never experienced it in anything I've ever seen personaly but in boatbuilding there are certain times epoxys are not recomended though therearepeople who do use it in these cases and presumably it works for them, thenagain maybe not in the long run. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 00:17:43 2001 f6R5HgZ28853 WAA12253; Subject: Re: Milward on glues Oh! Bond Creep, I thought he said a BLOND CREEP and was making referencetoa fellow rod maker. Actually on page 62 his Milwards book he says his is skeptical about bondcreep with epoxy and it has been reported by chemist when used withbamboo.We all know some chemist believe it is impossible to use Epon for rod makingand we know that to not be true. Academia does not always translate intopractical application. I do not think it is an actual issue. Best Regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Milward on glues Tony,You seem to have at least heard of "bond-creep". Would you help meunderstand it a little please? Is this a phenomenon of allowing the gluedpieces (in our case six, or four, or in some cases even five pieces) toslidein relationship to one another? Is it the glue which slides, or does thebondbetween the glue and the laminate? Or am I asking all the wrongquestions? Harry Tony Young wrote: I've never experienced it in anything I've ever seen personaly but inboatbuilding there are certain times epoxys are not recomended though therearepeople who do use it in these cases and presumably it works for them,thenagain maybe not in the long run. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jul 27 00:30:09 2001 f6R5U8Z00264 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Milward on glues I know that, at least in theory, it is possible. But, I've neverheard of any epoxy failures on rod sections unless the sectionwas over heated. Joint creep is even more likely in PVA's. And,to be truthful, I've never seen a joint failure unless,likewise, the section was subjected to heat. This leads me toconclude that for our application, we're probably not going tosee any joint- creep in normal use. Now, after 25 or 30 years?Who knows?John Z Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rodwrapp@swbell.net Fri Jul 27 02:38:25 2001 f6R7cNZ02531 (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) Subject: Fake Rods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I was reading The Heddon book The rod with The Fighting Hear last =night and there was a page about Paul Young..The author says Paul used =a lot of Heddon Blanks, and he said the Paul Young copied Heddon rods =clear down to the signature.. It said that often you could not tell a =heddon rod from a Paul Young rod.. This makes me wonder exactly how =many rods are Heddons or Paul Youngs rods.. hmmmmm.... Thanks Davehttp://www.geocites.com/davesrods The = Young copied Heddon rods clear down to the signature.. It said that = exactly how many rods are Heddons or Paul Youngs rods.. http://www.geocites.com/davesr=ods from rjwlawed@msn.com Fri Jul 27 06:12:20 2001 f6RBCJZ04875 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 04:12:15 -0700 Subject: bond creep FILETIME=[FDBBA450:01C1168C] i too, having been involved with boat construction and cabinet buildi=ng have heard about bond creep, but never saw it's results yet. if i reme=mber correctly it happens in the boundry layer of glued laminations. that=area that contains glue which is not squeezed out.as tony young commente=d, it is one of the reasons for the 1/12 ratio rule. the heavier the timb=ers you are gluing up the harder it is to get enough clamping pressures o=n them to squeeze out enough adhesive to make the boundry layer thin enou=gh to eliminate bond creep with certain adhesives.also the bigger the tim=ber the more the movement between glued surfaces either from naturalexpa=nsion and contraction or flex .that is why a 12 inch lam built with 3 - =4inch lams will fail before one built with 12-1 inch lams. such as flex i=n the keel timbers of large boats and both instances in masts and spars. =in flexing,the "outside" surface of one member moves allot more than the =adjacent"inside" surface of the mating timber and this ratio goes up with=the increase in size of the members. epoxies, as i understand require ve=ry thin boundry layers to work correctly, that is why as in tony's post a=n epoxy glued keel will remain intact.as in the case of lams being outsid=e that 1/12 ratio, the many bolts help reduce the boundry layer during co=nstruction, and are actually over stressing the timbers by making the the=inside and outide sufaces of adjacent timbers "work" at the same rate of=movement. it is also one of the reasons glue manufacturers sometimes gi=ve explicit values for clamping pressures with thier gluesas it applies to our craft, i don't think itis much of an element. al=though if a glue has bond slip on large glue-ups it will have slip on sma=ll glue-ups too, it's "creep ratio"goes up on a expotential scale as size=increases and we are far below the threashold in the size of glue-ups we=do. hi guys, ion and cabinet building have heard about bond creep, but never saw it's =results yet. if i remember correctly it happens in the boundry layer of g=lued laminations. that area that contains glue which is not squeezed out.=as tony young commented, it is one of the reasons for the 1/12 ratio rule=. the heavier the timbers you are gluing up the harder it is to get enoug=h clamping pressures on them to squeeze out enough adhesive to make theb=oundry layer thin enough to eliminate bond creep with certain adhesives.a=lso the bigger the timber the more the movement between glued surfacesei= p; a 12 inch lam built with 3 - 4inch lams will fail before one built wit=h 12-1 inch lams. such as flex in the keel timbers of large boats and bot=h instances in masts and spars. in flexing,the "outside" surface of one m=ember moves allot more than the adjacent"inside" surface of the mating ti=mber and this ratio goes up with the increase in size of the members.&nbs=p;epoxies, as i understand require very thin boundry layers to work corre=ctly, that is why as in tony's post an epoxy glued keel will remain intac= it is also one of the reasons glue manufacturers sometimes give explicit= it applies to our craft, i don't think itis much of an element. although =if a glue has bond slip on large glue-ups it will have slip on small glue=-ups too, it's "creep ratio"goes up on a expotential scale as size increa=ses and we are far below the threashold in the size of glue-ups we do. from channer@frontier.net Fri Jul 27 07:14:34 2001 f6RCEXZ05596 Subject: Re: repair advice Ronald;It sounds to me like you are trying to glue together end grain, whichwon't work, not enough suface for the glue to hold up to any stress, thejoint breaks every time the rod is flexed. A scarf repair will work muchbetter in this situation. The reason the rod feels wimpy is it has a"broken back" and has lost 1/6th of it's strength. Because the threadwraps are parallel to the break, they also give when the rod flexes.In along scarf joint, the thread is almost at a right angle to the joint, sothe strength of the thread and the (almost) edge grain to edge grain ofthe glue joint is much stronger.John from rsgould@cmc.net Fri Jul 27 08:44:42 2001 f6RDifZ07927 Subject: Re: Milward on glues Hi Harry and all,I'd have to defer comments regarding bond creep to adhesive experts but Iwould comment to rodbuilders that I have heard comments at rod buildingworkshops to the effect that some builders believed that using epoxy glue toglue up the splines resulted not in failure but rather in a soft action rod.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Milward on glues Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Jul 27 08:57:41 2001 f6RDvfZ08552 Subject: RE: A Question This is what I do when moving about in the river / stream. Instead of hooking the fly to the hook keeper (I know that's what is therefor) I keep 6" - 12" of fly line free from the end of the tip top holdingthe leader in the hand carrying my rod and either coiling loosely the restof the leader or letting it dangle depending on leader length. I find thefly line does not wrap around the rod and guides as much as the leader will,also easier to just "flip" it loose if it does. Keeping the end of the flyline free from the tip top makes it easier to strip out your line and castaway. Tight lines! Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: A Question To the List,Things seem slow these days (only 30 a day) so let me ask about atroublesome problem.First some background. On our home spring creeks in the East we typicallyenjoy an AM Trico hatch, then a sociable lunch followed by PM terrestrialfishing consisting of a streamside stalk which involves walking along abrushy path and looking for a trout either sipping or in favorable position.It's often a single cast situation, either success or a spooked fish. Thenmy ant gets hooked to the rod keeper and on we go slyly to the next target.And therein lies my problem. When I get ready to cast in the new location myleader is invariably twisted around the guides and by the time I go throughthe untwist contortions my quarry is often gone. Now this problem somehowseems to involve rod properties because it's worse with some combinationsthan with others, for no apparent reason.If anyone has encountered this problem and come up with a solution I'dsure appreciate hearing about it. Thanks. Bill from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Jul 27 09:12:45 2001 f6RECjZ09358 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: A Question Bill,I, too, wrap the leader a few times around the reel spool and then hook the fly on the stripper guide. One caveat... when moving about this way, do not clamp the line/leader in your hand against the grip. I used to do that, until the day I was jumping from boulder-to-boulder, came up short and slammed the butt of the rod against the rock. Naturally, my hand slid down the grip, tightening the line/leader and snapping the tip.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: A Question To the List,Things seem slow these days (only 30 a day) so let me ask about atroublesome problem.First some background. On our home spring creeks in the East wetypicallyenjoy an AM Trico hatch, then a sociable lunch followed by PM terrestrialfishing consisting of a streamside stalk which involves walking along abrushy path and looking for a trout either sipping or in favorable position.It's often a single cast situation, either success or a spooked fish. Thenmy ant gets hooked to the rod keeper and on we go slyly to the nexttarget.And therein lies my problem. When I get ready to cast in the new locationmyleader is invariably twisted around the guides and by the time I go throughthe untwist contortions my quarry is often gone. Now this problemsomehowseems to involve rod properties because it's worse with somecombinationsthan with others, for no apparent reason.If anyone has encountered this problem and come up with a solution I'dsure appreciate hearing about it. Thanks. Bill -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 27 09:20:59 2001 f6REKvZ09779 Subject: Re: Milward on glues Thanks John,I suspect that you are correct, as is so often the case. I'm nochemist, but from what I've been told the molecular structure ofepoxy is very stable. Once it's cured, heat is about all that willdestroy it. If that is correct then epoxy ought to be durable overlong periods of time. Harry "J. C. Zimny" wrote: I know that, at least in theory, it is possible. But, I've neverheard of any epoxy failures on rod sections unless the sectionwas over heated. Joint creep is even more likely in PVA's. And,to be truthful, I've never seen a joint failure unless,likewise, the section was subjected to heat. This leads me toconclude that for our application, we're probably not going tosee any joint- creep in normal use. Now, after 25 or 30 years?Who knows?John Z Harry Boyd wrote: Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 27 09:30:32 2001 f6REUWZ10281 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:23:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Milward on glues Thanks Ray,I've beent old that too. In fact, by one of the leading experts on epoxies arebased on Shell Epon 828 and 826, with a little "eye of newt" supposedlythrownin.We had booths next to each other at a FF show. We talked ratherextensively,and he is a fount of knowledge and information. I mostly listened, and askedquestions, believe it or not! When I asked what glue he used in makingbamboorods, he said that a UF glue was the only thing really suitable. When I toldhim that I used Epon, he said, Nah, it won't work." I said, "Malarky, it willtoo!" He said, "No way, all you will have is a limp noodle." I handed him aPayne 101 tapered rod glued with Epon, and said, "Maybe so, but go cast thislimp noodle and tell me what you think!!" He grabbed the tip from a 3 pcversion of the Para 15 (Unsuccessful experimental taper, FYI) and almosttied itin knots. He bent it till the tiptop touched the ferrule. He studied it forhalf an hour, and went away scratching his head. He came back later andflexedit and scratched his head some more. I guess in the eyes of this one expert the epoxy should have produced softactions. The fact that it did not produce that soft action confounded Ralph.Perhaps this is one more case where reality speaks more loudly than theory/ Harry Ray Gould wrote: Hi Harry and all,I'd have to defer comments regarding bond creep to adhesive experts but Iwould comment to rodbuilders that I have heard comments at rod buildingworkshops to the effect that some builders believed that using epoxy gluetoglue up the splines resulted not in failure but rather in a soft action rod.Ray----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:47 PMSubject: Milward on glues Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Jul 27 09:35:26 2001 f6REZPZ10871 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Milward on glues John,As you note, the PVAs are famous for joint creep, I've seen some interesting examples of this in custom furniture. However, for joint creep to occur, there must be a constant sheer pressure sustained over a long period of time. Since fly rods spend most of their time in the case, subject to no sheer pressures, it would seem unlikely that any rodmaking adhesive would exhibit joint creep.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ J. C. Zimny wrote: I know that, at least in theory, it is possible. But, I've neverheard of any epoxy failures on rod sections unless the sectionwas over heated. Joint creep is even more likely in PVA's. And,to be truthful, I've never seen a joint failure unless,likewise, the section was subjected to heat. This leads me toconclude that for our application, we're probably not going tosee any joint- creep in normal use. Now, after 25 or 30 years?Who knows?John Z from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Jul 27 09:51:36 2001 f6REpaZ11702 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Any word on Hank? All,Has anyone heard anything about Hank Woolman's health?-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from bcombest@iclub.org Fri Jul 27 11:40:12 2001 f6RGeBZ16430 ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:27:45 -0400 Subject: taper This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Does anyone have a taper for a Pezon et Michel I could not find this in any archive.I have a friend with one and I was trying to emulate this.Bruce Does anyone have a taper for a Pezon et =MichelRitz Master Series 8'3" Superparabolic I could not find this in any archive.I have a friend with one and I was trying to emulate = this.Bruce from jhewittiii@springsips.com Fri Jul 27 12:00:42 2001 f6RH0fZ17601 sippie.star2.net Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:02:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod ID Question Tilo,The Classic Chronicles Value Guide for Bamboo Fly Rods has a 9' H- ICunningham listed as $125.00. My guide is probably a year old, but I doubt ifthe price has changed much.Best Regards,John Hewitt Tilo Wege wrote: Hi All,Just had this question come by and thought I would throw it out to one andall:The poster received a H-I Cunningham rod in good condition. I looked inSinclair's Restoration book and see a price listing of $30 and the fact thisrod was produced in the 1930's. Sorry I have not had time to read the bookas of yet. Is the $30 in 1930's value? That would be a rather nice rod!Any info about this rod would be appreciated.Thanks,Tilo from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 12:28:50 2001 f6RHSnZ19025 KAA16243 Subject: Glues and more glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, I am using Epon and started thinking. I got it from Munro Rod Co. and it =says on the little bottle 1:1 ratio. Is the appropriate ratio by weight =or volume? I did it by weight and it seems to be fine. But I also got =his ferrulepon and did it by weight and it took three days for it to set =up. I sent him an email several weeks ago and no reply. Second question: Where is a good reliable source to obtain a supply of =Epon? 3rd question: What is the story with URAC 185? Milward likes it, Ralph =Moon Hates it. The shelf life is 4 months, but what is it really? Adam Vigil Hi all, I am using Epon and started thinking. I = Munro Rod Co. and it says on the little bottle 1:1 ratio. Is the = ratio by weight or volume? I did it by weight and it seems to be fine. = also got his ferrulepon and did it by weight and it took three days for = set up. I sent him an email several weeks ago and no reply. Second question: Where is a good = obtain a supply of Epon? 3rd question: What is the story with = what is it really? AdamVigil from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 13:13:25 2001 f6RIDNZ20503 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:13:32 -0400 Subject: Epon heat setting FILETIME=[D833A210:01C116C7] When I first heard about epon (828), one of its attributes was that it didn't require heat curing. I remember a few posts a while back concerning this, but most of the conversations apparently took place off list. Was there ever a consensus of what the heat treating regime should be (if any) and mix ratio recommended?TIA Bill Hoy PS: I've been using 828 1:1 w/no heat treatment. I've detected no problems so far. One of my ideas was to heat treat the epon-scarfed strips (before planing) and then leave the glued-up blank un-heat treated. I think I remember that the softening point is about 100*F higher with heat treated epon. That might solve the problem of scarfs separating during straightening after the rod is finished. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 27 13:29:23 2001 f6RITMZ21118 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Adam Vigil" Subject: Re: Glues and more glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Adam,I can't answer your question on the Epon, but can offer some =comments on question #3 about the URAC.Even though my good friend Ralph had a bad experience with it, I've =never had even the slightest problem with URAC. Glues up great, =especially if you replace the walnut shell medium with an Ammonium =Chloride/distilled water solution for the hardener. As for shelf life, =I buy it by the gallon, but then of course, I always overmix (easier to =throw out the extra than to try to mix more mid- binding) and I keep the =stuff in the "shop fridge" (aka beer box). Keeping it cool extends the =shelf life quite a lot. The gallon I'm using now is down to about half =and it's still curing fast and holding strong... matter of fact, I =fished a rod yesterday that was glued up with it about a month ago and =she never waivered If shelf life is a concern, then 1. refrigerate it =and 2. buy it in small quanities. . There are times when my gallon =container will get down to about a quart and then all of a sudden the =rods start taking longer to cure... THAT is when I pitch it out and buy =a new gallon. Slow curing, in my experience, is the first sign of the =URAC getting near the end of it's usefullness. Keeping it in the fridge =at the temperatures I do, probably about 45 degrees, or at least that's =what the beer feels like, extends the shelf life to almost a year. =Don't hold me to this, but I think Nelson Paint Company sells it in pint =quantities. I know they sell it in Quarts. from my understanding, Borden UF is basically the same thing as =URAC. Goldenwitch sells the Borden UF resin in Pint quanities, but it =comes with the walnut shell medium as a hardener, however, they also =sell the Ammonium Chloride seperate (I believe under the product name ="K-6") as a powder so you can mix your own hardener. Buying in pint =quantities, you won't have any worries about shelf life. Contact Russ =at Goldenwitch to confirm this.Now, one last note... The reason the Ammonium Chloride solution is =used instead of the supplied pulverized walnut shell medium is that URAC =was originally formulated for uses where a "filler" was needed. The =Walnut shell powder did a great job of this, but with fly rods, there is =no need for a filler. If anything, the filler will cause you problems. =In order to use the filler, it's necessary to sift it through something =very fine, such as a scrap piece of SWMBO's old pantyhose. If you don't =do this, you will inevitably end up with a piece that ISN'T pulverized =and it will get between two flats and cause a glue line. Ammonium =Chloride IS the powder that is added to the UF resins to harden them, so = distilled water (by weight) and then use the solution in a 1:10 (also by =wt.) with the UF resin as a hardener. This does two things... it rids =you of the possibility of glue lines from the chunks of walnut shells =that are found in the stock hardner and when mixed, it makes the UF =resin much more workable, as it has the consistency much like that of =Eagle Brand Milk... kinda looks like that, matter of fact.ONE LAST NOTE! The big advantage of Urac over the epoxies is that =it cleans up very easy. After binding, you can take warm soapy water =and a rag and wash it off of your binder, bench or anything else it gets =on. As for getting it on you, as with ANY adhesive, just don't do it! =Wear good latex gloves and keep it off your skin. Up until last year =when I got a scolding from one of our listmembers, I just handled the UF =resins with my bare hands. Hell, I thought getting an upset stomache =after gluing a rod was just normal... After my little a$$ chewing from =this other maker, I started using good quality latex gloves and wearing =a respirator and now I don't have any problems at all with physical =illness after gluing. I don't think this stuff does this to everyone, =as I know a few that thought it was strange that the URAC made me ill, =but maybe I am a little sensitive to the formaldehyde.As for it's actual use, another maker on the list that uses it told =me that he takes a damp cloth and wipes it off of the outside of the =section after he binds. I wipe it off, but just basically squeegie it =off with my hand. If you do this, with the URAC, then when it's time to =remove the string, you don't have to file it or sand it to get the =string off. You can simply cut the string on one end with a razor blade =and unwind the string from the section. When you do this, a lot of the =excess glue on the section will come off with the string, so you don't =really have that much to sand off before you get to the enamel.Well, as Porky Pig would say... "ba dee, ba dee, ba dee, ba Dat's =All Folks!" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:43 PMSubject: Glues and more glue Hi all, I am using Epon and started thinking. I got it from Munro Rod Co. and =it says on the little bottle 1:1 ratio. Is the appropriate ratio by =weight or volume? I did it by weight and it seems to be fine. But I also =got his ferrulepon and did it by weight and it took three days for it to =set up. I sent him an email several weeks ago and no reply. Second question: Where is a good reliable source to obtain a supply of =Epon? 3rd question: What is the story with URAC 185? Milward likes it, Ralph =Moon Hates it. The shelf life is 4 months, but what is it really? Adam Vigil Adam, = but can offer some comments on question #3 about theURAC. Ralph = experience with it, I've never had even the slightest problem with = Glues up great, especially if you replace the walnut shell medium with = shelf life, I buy it by the gallon, but then of course, I always overmix = to throw out the extra than to try to mix more mid-binding) and I keep = still curing fast and holding strong... matter of fact, I fished a rod = that was glued up with it about a month ago and she never = container will get down to about a quart and then all of a sudden the = taking longer to cure... THAT is when I pitch it out and buy a new = Slow curing, in my experience, is the first sign of the URAC getting = do, probably about 45 degrees, or at least that's what the beer feels = it in Quarts. UF = Pint quanities, but it comes with the walnut shell medium as a hardener, = however, they also sell the Ammonium Chloride seperate (I believe under = Russ at Goldenwitch to confirm this. = walnut shell medium is that URAC was originally formulated for uses = "filler" was needed. The Walnut shell powder did a great job of this, = that ISN'T pulverized and it will get between two flats and cause a glue = harden them, so for rodmaking applications, it's much better to mix the = 1:10 with distilled water (by weight) and then use the solution in a = you of the possibility of glue lines from the chunks of walnut shells = found in the stock hardner and when mixed, it makes the UF resin much = kinda looks like that, matter of fact. can take warm soapy water and a rag and wash it off of your binder, = thought getting an upset stomache after gluing a rod was just normal... = little a$$ chewing from this other maker, I started using good quality = gloves and wearing a respirator and now I don't have any problems at all = everyone, as I know a few that thought it was strange that the URAC made = but maybe I am a little sensitive to the formaldehyde. the list that uses it told me that he takes a damp cloth and wipes it = it's time to remove the string, you don't have to file it or sand it to = excess glue on the section will come off with the string, so you don't = have that much to sand off before you get to the enamel. dee, ba dee, ba Dat's All Folks!" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 = PMSubject: Glues and more =glue Hi all, I am using Epon and started thinking. = appropriate ratio by weight or volume? I did it by weight and it seems = fine. But I also got his ferrulepon and did it by weight and it took = reply. Second question: Where is a good = to obtain a supply of Epon? 3rd question: What is the story with = what is it really? Adam =Vigil from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Jul 27 13:34:45 2001 f6RIYiZ21458 Subject: Planing forms Hello all, I have been contemplating buy planing forms. My questions is; Golden Witchoffers wooden forms as a less expensive alternate to their steel forms, hasanyone used these forms? Has anyone built similar wood forms and usedthem? If so, is the process similar to building the steel forms as described Thanks for your help and support, Pete from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Jul 27 13:41:13 2001 f6RIfDZ21830 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:41:45 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:37:30 -0400 Subject: RE: Glues and more glue This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Go to http://www.resins- versatics.com/resins/resins.nsf/Products/EPONandcheck out 828 and curing agent 3140. You can call Resolution PerformanceProducts or there are distributors for the product you can call and place acredit card order. I don't recall exactly who I finally ordered from, but Istarted with the url above. You will need to give them a "company name" andyou can say you are a rodmaking business. I have thought of using Urac, but at 1 or at most 2 rods a year, I haven'treally had a chance to experiment yet, and Epon lasts longer. Shelf life,mix ratios, additives all can make a much bigger difference with Urac thanwith Epon (or so I have heard and read). There are good rodmakers that useboth, though my guess is that more of the ones selling rods use Urac (but Imight be mistaken). I don't think exact ratios when using Epon are at allcritical, whether by weight or volume. It would be interesting to cast 2 rods of same taper where one is with Eponand one with Urac. I don't know about the fast vs. slow rod issue, but I cansay that I have cast fast rods made with Epon. Would a Urac one be faster?Perhaps, I don't know. Might Epon perhaps have an advantage because it ismore elastic (wrong word probably) and perhaps less brittle (realtivelyspeaking)? I don't know. i would suspect given 2 different rods, the taperis more important. but this is all supposition. -----Original Message----- Subject: Glues and more glue Hi all, I am using Epon and started thinking. I got it from Munro Rod Co. and itsays on the little bottle 1:1 ratio. Is the appropriate ratio by weight orvolume? I did it by weight and it seems to be fine. But I also got hisferrulepon and did it by weight and it took three days for it to set up. I Second question: Where is a good reliable source to obtain a supply of Epon? 3rd question: What is the story with URAC 185? Milward likes it, Ralph MoonHates it. The shelf life is 4 months, but what is it really? Adam Vigil versatics.com/resins/resins.nsf/Products/EPON&nbs= and check out 828 and curing agent 3140. You can call = and place a credit card order. I don't recall exactly who I finally = from, but I started with the url above. You will need to give them a = name" and you can say you are a rodmaking business. = thought of using Urac, but at 1 or at most 2 rods a year, I haven't = additives all can make a much bigger difference with Urac than with = guess is that more of the ones selling rods use Urac (but I might be = I don't think exact ratios when using Epon are at all critical, whether = weight or volume. would be interesting to cast 2 rods of same taper where one is with = with Urac. I don't know about the fast vs. slow rod issue, but I can = have cast fast rods made with Epon. Would a Urac one be faster? = = (wrong word probably) and perhaps less brittle (realtively speaking)? I = know. i would suspect given 2 different rods, the taper is more = this is all supposition. glueHi all, I am using Epon and started = from Munro Rod Co. and it says on the little bottle 1:1 ratio. Is the = appropriate ratio by weight or volume? I did it by weight and it = fine. But I also got his ferrulepon and did it by weight and it took = reply. Second question: Where is a good = to obtain a supply of Epon? 3rd question: What is the story with = what is it really? Adam =Vigil from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 27 14:06:45 2001 f6RJ6jZ22767 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:33:08 -0500 Subject: Glue message (name withheld by Bob) wrote: "So, how much kickback do you get forpromoting this (expletive deleted)?" OK, Gotta answer the first email I got in response to the last post I madeabout the URAC, Borden, Nelson Paint Company and Goldenwitch... Guess Ishould have put the usual disclaimer on the end, but I didn't so here itis... I DO NOT WORK FOR GOLDENWITCH, NELSON, BORDEN OR ANYONE ELSE! IWORK BORDEN ANDFURTHERMORE, DON'T CARE IF YOU GLUE YOUR RODS UP WITH SUPERGLUE ORHORSEDUNG! REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU USE, IT WILL HAVE NO PERSONAL OFFINANCIALIMPACT ON ME!!!As long as I had to answer that, I might as well make public that eventhough this has been a good year in the fashioning of grass rods, I haven'tmade enough on rods or kickbacks to buy out Nelson Paint Company orBorden,either one... In other words, that post was merely informative and notintended to specifically promote any individual or enterprise and it damnsure isn't gonna make me a penny if everyone on the list started using URACor Borden UF. Off to lunch where I'll ponder the audacity of one individual... yeah, I'min a pissy mood now, but a good lunch will cure that... oh, and I don't ownthe cafe either!Bob from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Fri Jul 27 14:28:19 2001 f6RJSIZ23672 MAA15469; ,"Adam Vigil" Subject: Re: Glues and more glue This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Bob,I truly appreciate the info on the glue...I too experienced upset =stomache and the shakes while using URAC, although I originally thought =it was from running my ponytail through the binder with my butt section =and gluing latex gloves to my $80.00 birkenstocks. Next glue up is in a =week or so and hopefully with your insight I will avoid illness. losey Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 2:28 PMSubject: Re: Glues and more glue Adam,I can't answer your question on the Epon, but can offer some =comments on question #3 about the URAC.Even though my good friend Ralph had a bad experience with it, =I've never had even the slightest problem with URAC. Glues up great, =especially if you replace the walnut shell medium with an Ammonium =Chloride/distilled water solution for the hardener. As for shelf life, =I buy it by the gallon, but then of course, I always overmix (easier to =throw out the extra than to try to mix more mid- binding) and I keep the =stuff in the "shop fridge" (aka beer box). Keeping it cool extends the =shelf life quite a lot. The gallon I'm using now is down to about half =and it's still curing fast and holding strong... matter of fact, I =fished a rod yesterday that was glued up with it about a month ago and =she never waivered If shelf life is a concern, then 1. refrigerate it =and 2. buy it in small quanities. . There are times when my gallon =container will get down to about a quart and then all of a sudden the =rods start taking longer to cure... THAT is when I pitch it out and buy =a new gallon. Slow curing, in my experience, is the first sign of the =URAC getting near the end of it's usefullness. Keeping it in the fridge =at the temperatures I do, probably about 45 degrees, or at least that's =what the beer feels like, extends the shelf life to almost a year. =Don't hold me to this, but I think Nelson Paint Company sells it in pint =quantities. I know they sell it in Quarts. from my understanding, Borden UF is basically the same thing as =URAC. Goldenwitch sells the Borden UF resin in Pint quanities, but it =comes with the walnut shell medium as a hardener, however, they also =sell the Ammonium Chloride seperate (I believe under the product name ="K-6") as a powder so you can mix your own hardener. Buying in pint =quantities, you won't have any worries about shelf life. Contact Russ =at Goldenwitch to confirm this.Now, one last note... The reason the Ammonium Chloride solution is =used instead of the supplied pulverized walnut shell medium is that URAC =was originally formulated for uses where a "filler" was needed. The =Walnut shell powder did a great job of this, but with fly rods, there is =no need for a filler. If anything, the filler will cause you problems. =In order to use the filler, it's necessary to sift it through something =very fine, such as a scrap piece of SWMBO's old pantyhose. If you don't =do this, you will inevitably end up with a piece that ISN'T pulverized =and it will get between two flats and cause a glue line. Ammonium =Chloride IS the powder that is added to the UF resins to harden them, so = distilled water (by weight) and then use the solution in a 1:10 (also by =wt.) with the UF resin as a hardener. This does two things... it rids =you of the possibility of glue lines from the chunks of walnut shells =that are found in the stock hardner and when mixed, it makes the UF =resin much more workable, as it has the consistency much like that of =Eagle Brand Milk... kinda looks like that, matter of fact.ONE LAST NOTE! The big advantage of Urac over the epoxies is that =it cleans up very easy. After binding, you can take warm soapy water =and a rag and wash it off of your binder, bench or anything else it gets =on. As for getting it on you, as with ANY adhesive, just don't do it! =Wear good latex gloves and keep it off your skin. Up until last year =when I got a scolding from one of our listmembers, I just handled the UF =resins with my bare hands. Hell, I thought getting an upset stomache =after gluing a rod was just normal... After my little a$$ chewing from =this other maker, I started using good quality latex gloves and wearing =a respirator and now I don't have any problems at all with physical =illness after gluing. I don't think this stuff does this to everyone, =as I know a few that thought it was strange that the URAC made me ill, =but maybe I am a little sensitive to the formaldehyde.As for it's actual use, another maker on the list that uses it =told me that he takes a damp cloth and wipes it off of the outside of =the section after he binds. I wipe it off, but just basically squeegie =it off with my hand. If you do this, with the URAC, then when it's time =to remove the string, you don't have to file it or sand it to get the =string off. You can simply cut the string on one end with a razor blade =and unwind the string from the section. When you do this, a lot of the =excess glue on the section will come off with the string, so you don't =really have that much to sand off before you get to the enamel.Well, as Porky Pig would say... "ba dee, ba dee, ba dee, ba Dat's =All Folks!" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:43 PMSubject: Glues and more glue Hi all, I am using Epon and started thinking. I got it from Munro Rod Co. =and it says on the little bottle 1:1 ratio. Is the appropriate ratio by =weight or volume? I did it by weight and it seems to be fine. But I also =got his ferrulepon and did it by weight and it took three days for it to =set up. I sent him an email several weeks ago and no reply. Second question: Where is a good reliable source to obtain a supply =of Epon? 3rd question: What is the story with URAC 185? Milward likes it, =Ralph Moon Hates it. The shelf life is 4 months, but what is it really? Adam Vigil Bob,I truly appreciate the info on the = originally thought it was from running my ponytail through the binder = butt section and gluing latex gloves to my $80.00 birkenstocks. Next = illness. losey ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Makers List Serve ; Adam Vigil Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 =2:28 PMSubject: Re: Glues and more =glue Adam, = but can offer some comments on question #3 about the =URAC. bad experience with it, I've never had even the slightest problem with = I always overmix (easier to throw out the extra than to try to mix = mid-binding) and I keep the stuff in the "shop fridge" (aka beer = now is down to about half and it's still curing fast and holding = matter of fact, I fished a rod yesterday that was glued up with it = shelf life is a concern, then 1. refrigerate it and 2. buy it in small = down to about a quart and then all of a sudden the rods start taking = in my experience, is the first sign of the URAC getting near the end = about 45 degrees, or at least that's what the beer feels like, extends = Quarts. Borden = in Pint quanities, but it comes with the walnut shell medium as a = however, they also sell the Ammonium Chloride seperate (I believe = product name "K-6") as a powder so you can mix your own = Russ at Goldenwitch to confirm this. pulverized walnut shell medium is that URAC was originally formulated = where a "filler" was needed. The Walnut shell powder did a great job = necessary to sift it through something very fine, such as a scrap = with a piece that ISN'T pulverized and it will get between two flats = resins to harden them, so for rodmaking applications, it's much better = the NH4Cl 1:10 with distilled water (by weight) and then use the = things... it rids you of the possibility of glue lines from the chunks = walnut shells that are found in the stock hardner and when mixed, it = Eagle Brand Milk... kinda looks like that, matter of =fact. = can take warm soapy water and a rag and wash it off of your binder, = thought getting an upset stomache after gluing a rod was just = my little a$$ chewing from this other maker, I started using good = latex gloves and wearing a respirator and now I don't have any = to everyone, as I know a few that thought it was strange that the URAC = ill, but maybe I am a little sensitive to the =formaldehyde. = the list that uses it told me that he takes a damp cloth and wipes it = then when it's time to remove the string, you don't have to file it or = lot of the excess glue on the section will come off with the string, = enamel. = ba dee, ba dee, ba Dat's All Folks!" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Vigil = Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 = PMSubject: Glues and more =glue Hi all, I am using Epon and started = from Munro Rod Co. and it says on the little bottle 1:1 ratio. Is = appropriate ratio by weight or volume? I did it by weight and it = fine. But I also got his ferrulepon and did it by weight and it took = reply. Second question: Where is a good = source to obtain a supply of Epon? 3rd question: What is the story = what is it really? Vigil from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jul 27 14:35:27 2001 f6RJZQZ24046 MAA07664 MAA14178 (5.5.2650.21) "'caneman@clnk.com'" Subject: RE: Glue message this guy was obviously brain dead or he wouldn't have made a comment likethat!!!!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: Glue message (name withheld by Bob) wrote: "So, how much kickback do you get forpromoting this (expletive deleted)?" OK, Gotta answer the first email I got in response to the last post I madeabout the URAC, Borden, Nelson Paint Company and Goldenwitch... Guess Ishould have put the usual disclaimer on the end, but I didn't so here itis... I DO NOT WORK FOR GOLDENWITCH, NELSON, BORDEN OR ANYONE ELSE! I WORK BORDEN ANDFURTHERMORE, DON'T CARE IF YOU GLUE YOUR RODS UP WITH SUPERGLUEOR HORSEDUNG! REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU USE, IT WILL HAVE NO PERSONAL OFFINANCIALIMPACT ON ME!!!As long as I had to answer that, I might as well make public that eventhough this has been a good year in the fashioning of grass rods, I haven'tmade enough on rods or kickbacks to buy out Nelson Paint Company orBorden,either one... In other words, that post was merely informative and notintended to specifically promote any individual or enterprise and it damnsure isn't gonna make me a penny if everyone on the list started usingURACor Borden UF. Off to lunch where I'll ponder the audacity of one individual... yeah, I'min a pissy mood now, but a good lunch will cure that... oh, and I don't ownthe cafe either!Bob from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Fri Jul 27 14:39:33 2001 f6RJdWZ24372 MAA23342; "Rod Makers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Planing forms Pete,I made a set of planing forms from 2 pcs. of 1"x2" hard maple and lining thetapered groove faces with 1/4"x1" aluminum. The tapering groove wasmachinedinto the aluminum with a carbide tip router bit...although I have only usedthese forms for the initial tapers I expect they will do fine for thefinished taper.losey----- Original Message ----- Subject: Planing forms Hello all, I have been contemplating buy planing forms. My questions is; GoldenWitchoffers wooden forms as a less expensive alternate to their steel forms,hasanyone used these forms? Has anyone built similar wood forms and usedthem? If so, is the process similar to building the steel forms asdescribed Thanks for your help and support, Pete from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Fri Jul 27 14:47:12 2001 f6RJlBZ24826 f6RJl8M37392;Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:47:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Glue message BobDont let them get to you, great info thanks for your time andthoughts.on URAC/ I still use Nytex but am thinking about URAC,Rember there is Beer in that refg.Thanks Tony Larson ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Glue message (name withheld by Bob) wrote: "So, how much kickback do you get forpromoting this (expletive deleted)?" OK, Gotta answer the first email I got in response to the last post I madeabout the URAC, Borden, Nelson Paint Company and Goldenwitch... Guess Ishould have put the usual disclaimer on the end, but I didn't so here itis... I DO NOT WORK FOR GOLDENWITCH, NELSON, BORDEN OR ANYONE ELSE! IWORK BORDEN ANDFURTHERMORE, DON'T CARE IF YOU GLUE YOUR RODS UP WITH SUPERGLUEOR HORSEDUNG! REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU USE, IT WILL HAVE NO PERSONAL OFFINANCIALIMPACT ON ME!!!As long as I had to answer that, I might as well make public that eventhough this has been a good year in the fashioning of grass rods, Ihaven'tmade enough on rods or kickbacks to buy out Nelson Paint Company orBorden,either one... In other words, that post was merely informative and notintended to specifically promote any individual or enterprise and it damnsure isn't gonna make me a penny if everyone on the list started usingURACor Borden UF. Off to lunch where I'll ponder the audacity of one individual... yeah, I'min a pissy mood now, but a good lunch will cure that... oh, and I don'townthe cafe either!Bob from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 27 14:58:30 2001 f6RJwTZ25486 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:51:39 -0700 Subject: Re: taper --------------0FD379CAA6A598675380B97D Bruce,If your friend has one, perhaps the easiest way to getthe taper is ask your friend's permission to measure (his orher) rod. Place some tape over the jaws of your dialcaliper to prevent the sharp edges scratching the varnish.Join the rod sections together. Start just below the tiptop and call that a 1" measurement. Measure a 1", 5", 10",and so on. Where guides are in the way, measure just aboveand below them. Measure just above and below ferrulewraps. Keep careful notes, and when you have it all workedout, make an estimate between .002" for varnish thickness ontips, and .006" for varnish on the butts. And don't forget, share the taper with all your friendson Rodmakers!! Harry Bruce Combest wrote: Does anyone have a taper for a Pezon et MichelRitz MasterSeries 8'3" SuperparabolicI could not find this in anyarchive.I have a friend with one and I was trying toemulate this.Bruce "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------0FD379CAA6A598675380B97D Bruce, to get the taper is ask your friend's permission to measure (his or her) Keep careful notes, and when you have it all worked out, make an estimatebetween .002" for varnish thickness on tips, and .006" for varnish on thebutts. friendson Rodmakers!! Bruce Combest wrote: Does anyone have ataper for a Pezon et MichelRitz Master Series 8'3"SuperparabolicI could not find this in anyarchive.Ihave a friend with one and I was trying to emulate this.Bruce --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------0FD379CAA6A598675380B97D-- from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jul 27 15:24:49 2001 f6RKOmZ26573 f6RKOmZ05320 Subject: Re: Glues and more glue Adam,I get mine from Binghmam Products in Provo Utah.Fast service and I think good prices. They supplybow makers.I just looked, I guess I D keyed the web site. Ican send you the info after I look it up if youwant it or you can do a search.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Adam Vigil wrote: Hi all, I am using Epon and started thinking. Igot it from Munro Rod Co. and it says on thelittle bottle 1:1 ratio. Is the appropriateratio by weight or volume? I did it by weightand it seems to be fine. But I also got hisferrulepon and did it by weight and it tookthree days for it to set up. I sent him an emailseveral weeks ago and no reply. Second question:Where is a good reliable source to obtain asupply of Epon? 3rd question: What is the storywith URAC 185? Milward likes it, Ralph MoonHates it. The shelf life is 4 months, but whatis it really? Adam Vigil from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jul 27 15:40:45 2001 f6RKeiZ27727 f6RKeiZ07531 Subject: Re: Epon heat setting Bill,I have had good results mixing the 828 with Versimade 140 hardener 2 parts828, 1 part hardener by volume. I have two large syringes that I fill tomeasure the mix.The Epon is applied and the sticks hung for 18 hours. The Epon gets like athick gel. Remove the binding cord, scrap the gel off the flats, rebind andheat set at 180 F for 4 hours.The sticks are clean when they come out of the oven.No scraping of hard glue.The sticks can be heat set right after gluing but are tough to clean up afterthe Epon is heat set.When cold. the stuff is like molasses in winter. I just pass a hair dryer overthe container and it thins out real quick.White vinegar will cut the Epon for cleanup.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bill Hoy wrote: When I first heard about epon (828), one of its attributes was that itdidn't require heat curing. I remember a few posts a while back concerningthis, but most of the conversations apparently took place off list. Was there ever a consensus of what the heat treating regime should be (ifany) and mix ratio recommended?TIA Bill Hoy PS: I've been using 828 1:1 w/no heat treatment. I've detected noproblemsso far. One of my ideas was to heat treat the epon-scarfed strips (beforeplaning) and then leave the glued-up blank un-heat treated. I think Iremember that the softening point is about 100*F higher with heat treatedepon. That might solve the problem of scarfs separating duringstraightening after the rod is finished. from stpete@netten.net Fri Jul 27 16:00:44 2001 f6RL0hZ28713 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:11:15 -0500 Subject: Re: taper Bruce, Don't forget to zero your calipers after you put the masking tape onthem. To zero them simply put the tape on (sticky side toward the jaws!:-)), then close them with normal pressure or even a little tightlysince the 'foot' will be larger with nothing in the jaws, then loosenthe scale set screw (assuming you have a dial caliper), set the needleon zero by rotating the scale, and tighten the set screw. If you havean electronic caliper - hit the zero button. BTW, how parabolic is the 'superparabolic' ? Rick C. Harry Boyd wrote: Bruce,If your friend has one, perhaps the easiest way to get the taperis ask your friend's permission to measure (his or her) rod. Placesome tape over the jaws of your dial caliper to prevent the sharpedges scratching the varnish. Join the rod sections together. Startjust below the tip top and call that a 1" measurement. Measure a 1",5", 10", and so on. Where guides are in the way, measure just aboveand below them. Measure just above and below ferrule wraps. Keepcareful notes, and when you have it all worked out, make an estimatebetween .002" for varnish thickness on tips, and .006" for varnish onthe butts. And don't forget, share the taper with all your friends onRodmakers!! Harry Bruce Combest wrote: Does anyone have a taper for a Pezon et MichelRitz Master Series8'3" SuperparabolicI could not find this in any archive.I have afriend with one and I was trying to emulate this.Bruce --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Dennishigham@cs.com Fri Jul 27 16:07:36 2001 f6RL7ZZ29176 Subject: Re: Epon heat setting Bill,What Tony said... but I use the Shell EPI-CURE 3140 hardener w/ EPON resin 828. I mix1:1 by volume. Rest is the same as Tony. I get mine from Miller-Stephenson Chemical Co. 847-966-2022. You'll have to give them a company name.."Bill's Fine Rods"" or something.I heat treat 180 degrees 3 1/2 hours. Dennis from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jul 27 16:25:39 2001 f6RLPcZ01348 ,Adam Vigil Subject: Re: Glues and more glue Bob I would like to respond to your post since you made me a whipping boy.Instead of being blatant commercialism for the makers of the productsyou mentioned, it was one of the most informative discussions onadhesives I have read in many a moon (no pun). It made me wonder if myfailure with Urac was because I did not understand how to handle thematerial and did it all wrong..One of my criticisms was the cost ofUrac. Build a rod or two and toss the rest away. You getting it by thegallon makes me wonder a bit. If nothing else it has aroused mycuriosity. I still have a few reservations about Epoxies and I stillget kind of antsy about the color of Resorcinol. I have talked with acouple of other builders who swear by plastic resin (which I think israther similar to Urac). These guys are professionals of longstanding. One of my complaints against Urac was the thick glue joint.(I didn't sift it and I used the cracked walnut shells.) I am aboutready to give it another try. That is if someone will pick up thepieces if it fails. As for the guy who flamed you don't sweat it. Heis not a rod maker and does not deserve to be on the list. Good rodmakers wear halos and wings, not horns and hoofs. See ya in Livingston Ralph from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 16:27:54 2001 f6RLRsZ01802 OAA14062; Subject: Re: Glue message Thanks Bob, I really appreciate the time an effort to reply to my post. It answered thequestions I asked in a very detailed manner. purchased can we lay off the bad manners of pissin off those who take thetime to answer. Bob sent the info to the list to share not profit. If he had Adam Vigil. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Glue message (name withheld by Bob) wrote: "So, how much kickback do you get forpromoting this (expletive deleted)?" OK, Gotta answer the first email I got in response to the last post I madeabout the URAC, Borden, Nelson Paint Company and Goldenwitch... Guess Ishould have put the usual disclaimer on the end, but I didn't so here itis... I DO NOT WORK FOR GOLDENWITCH, NELSON, BORDEN OR ANYONE ELSE! IWORK BORDEN ANDFURTHERMORE, DON'T CARE IF YOU GLUE YOUR RODS UP WITH SUPERGLUEOR HORSEDUNG! REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU USE, IT WILL HAVE NO PERSONAL OFFINANCIALIMPACT ON ME!!!As long as I had to answer that, I might as well make public that eventhough this has been a good year in the fashioning of grass rods, Ihaven'tmade enough on rods or kickbacks to buy out Nelson Paint Company orBorden,either one... In other words, that post was merely informative and notintended to specifically promote any individual or enterprise and it damnsure isn't gonna make me a penny if everyone on the list started usingURACor Borden UF. Off to lunch where I'll ponder the audacity of one individual... yeah, I'min a pissy mood now, but a good lunch will cure that... oh, and I don'townthe cafe either!Bob from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jul 27 16:53:18 2001 f6RLrHZ04377 Subject: Re: Glue message I wondered what your thoughts were on Horse Dung as a filler for Urac?(Your post was extremely informative as always)Thanks,Bob At 02:05 PM 7/27/2001 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:(name withheld by Bob) wrote: "So, how much kickback do you get forpromoting this (expletive deleted)?" OK, Gotta answer the first email I got in response to the last post I madeabout the URAC, Borden, Nelson Paint Company and Goldenwitch... Guess Ishould have put the usual disclaimer on the end, but I didn't so here itis... I DO NOT WORK FOR GOLDENWITCH, NELSON, BORDEN OR ANYONE ELSE! IWORK BORDEN ANDFURTHERMORE, DON'T CARE IF YOU GLUE YOUR RODS UP WITH SUPERGLUE ORHORSEDUNG! REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU USE, IT WILL HAVE NO PERSONAL OFFINANCIALIMPACT ON ME!!! from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 27 17:02:45 2001 f6RM2iZ05193 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Adam Vigil" Subject: Re: Glue message List,First, excuse my tirade! I don't generally blow off steam like that,but I've been in the shop from daylight until close to midnight for a coupleof weeks running now, and maybe my nerves are a little raw to begin with. Ishould have just laughed and deleted the email, and normally I would... Noreal excuse for me answering ignorance with ignorance...Mood is much better now. Had a long lunch with Billie, and those of youwho know her, know that she could put anyone in a good mood! *S* Thankstothose who sent "settling" notes to me both off and on list. Tight lines and straight splits... Bob Thanks Bob, I really appreciate the time an effort to reply to my post. It answeredthequestions I asked in a very detailed manner. purchased can we lay off the bad manners of pissin off those who take thetime to answer. Bob sent the info to the list to share not profit. If hehadsent it just to me then others would have missed out. Adam Vigil. ----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:05 PMSubject: Glue message (name withheld by Bob) wrote: "So, how much kickback do you get forpromoting this (expletive deleted)?" OK, Gotta answer the first email I got in response to the last post Imadeabout the URAC, Borden, Nelson Paint Company and Goldenwitch... Guess Ishould have put the usual disclaimer on the end, but I didn't so here itis... I DO NOT WORK FOR GOLDENWITCH, NELSON, BORDEN OR ANYONEELSE! IWORK BORDEN ANDFURTHERMORE, DON'T CARE IF YOU GLUE YOUR RODS UP WITH SUPERGLUEOR HORSEDUNG! REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU USE, IT WILL HAVE NO PERSONAL OFFINANCIALIMPACT ON ME!!!As long as I had to answer that, I might as well make public thateventhough this has been a good year in the fashioning of grass rods, Ihaven'tmade enough on rods or kickbacks to buy out Nelson Paint Company orBorden,either one... In other words, that post was merely informative and notintended to specifically promote any individual or enterprise and itdamnsure isn't gonna make me a penny if everyone on the list started usingURACor Borden UF. Off to lunch where I'll ponder the audacity of one individual... yeah,I'min a pissy mood now, but a good lunch will cure that... oh, and I don'townthe cafe either!Bob from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 27 17:11:08 2001 f6RMB7Z05693 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:37:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue message Oh, horse dung is smooth enough and mixes well with URAC, but theundigestedgrass in it makes your rod look "hairy" after sanding! *S* Am in a muchbetter mood now! Later,Bob I wondered what your thoughts were on Horse Dung as a filler for Urac?(Your post was extremely informative as always)Thanks,Bob from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Jul 27 17:20:59 2001 f6RMKwZ06141 Subject: Re:Glue message This is a multi-part message in MIME format. BobDon't let that guy bother you! one of the most helpful on this list.I know, you have helped me out many of times.Tony Miller BobDon't let that guy bother =you! = and one of the most helpful on this =list.I know, you have helped me out many times.Tony Miller from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Jul 27 18:05:19 2001 f6RN5IZ07422 Subject: Bond Creep(Flyrods - not Stockmarket) To the List,Have not yet gotten to the glue section of the Milward book. Am devouringevery page. But I fish regularly with rods I made in the 60's with Epon. Ifthere is such a thing as bond creep I have not yet seen it. Let me read on -and fish on. Bill from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jul 27 18:55:09 2001 f6RNt8Z08533 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Bond Creep(Flyrods - not Stockmarket) Hi Bill,You are the one who is responsible for the use of Epon in rod making. Want totell us how long some of your rods have lasted.John Z Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Have not yet gotten to the glue section of the Milward book. Amdevouringevery page. But I fish regularly with rods I made in the 60's with Epon. Ifthere is such a thing as bond creep I have not yet seen it. Let me read on -and fish on. Bill from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jul 27 19:10:07 2001 f6S0A6Z08918 f6S0A6Z00906 Subject: Re: Glues and more glue Must of had a brain lapse, It is Ogdon and not Provo.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Adam,I get mine from Bingham Products in Provo Utah. from cheiron@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 19:46:25 2001 f6S0kOZ09532 RAA25817 Subject: Partridge blank question Hi- I'm new to the list. Was hoping someone might have an opinion about the split bamboo blankssold by Cabella's. Partridge of Redditch is the manufactures name. Specifically the 6' 3/4 wieght 2piece, they charge $300 (described asBritish Action?-) and the 7'6" 4 piece for 6wieght at $340. This would be my first rod building attempt. The Cabella's site gives noinfo like tip end diameter or butt end which makes this more confusing. Thanks Dennis from rwallace@greatnorthern.net Fri Jul 27 20:00:16 2001 f6S10FZ09861 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:00:14 -0700 Subject: Re: Partridge blank question I had an opportunity to see some of these at the Anglers Workshop. I don'tremember what length or line wt the blanks were. I liked the ones that I sawthough. They seemed very fast. Ray Hi- I'm new to the list. Was hoping someone might have an opinion about the split bamboo blankssold by Cabella's. Partridge of Redditch is the manufactures name. Specifically the 6' 3/4 wieght 2piece, they charge $300 (described asBritish Action?-) and the 7'6" 4 piece for 6wieght at $340. This would be my first rod building attempt. The Cabella's site gives noinfo like tip end diameter or butt end which makes this more confusing. Thanks Dennis from rextutor@about.com Fri Jul 27 20:04:25 2001 f6S14OZ10101 (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: Rod ID Question Yes $30 is the original price .Note the prices in Sinclair go down to impregnated ---- Begin Original Message ---- Subject: Rod ID Question Hi All,Just had this question come by and thought I would throw it out to one andall:The poster received a H-I Cunningham rod in good condition. I looked inSinclair's Restoration book and see a price listing of $30 and the fact thisrod was produced in the 1930's. Sorry I have not had time to read the bookas of yet. Is the $30 in 1930's value? That would be a rather nice rod!Any info about this rod would be appreciated.Thanks,Tilo ---- End Original Message ---- Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from travisfolk@hotmail.com Fri Jul 27 20:06:42 2001 f6S16fZ10364 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:06:33 -0700 HTTP; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:06:32 GMT FILETIME=[8A8F2E50:01C11701] Hello all,I'm new to the list and have a question that probably gets asked a lot. I have a real itch to build a rod, but have no exposure to rod building. I do have a fair amount of exposure to general wood working though. Before I start buying materials I would like to do some reading on the subject. Can any one recommend a book that will be a good introduction as well as provide valuable guidance while building a rod?Thanks for any help. Travis Hayes FolkGraduate Research AssistantSchool of Forestry and Wildlife SciencesAuburn University, Alabama 36849-5418 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from GRNMTRODS@aol.com Fri Jul 27 20:09:30 2001 f6S19TZ10559 Subject: straining hardener Try straining that hoss dung through a highly used handkerchief. That well usually be sufficient enough to take all the lumps out. Both in the hardener and in your handkerchief Jim Try straining that hossdung through a highly used handkerchief. That well usually be sufficient enough to take all the lumps out. Both in thehardener and in your handkerchief Jim from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jul 27 20:42:23 2001 f6S1gMZ11174 Subject: Rods made in Japan I don't know if any of you guys have seen the site, Hexastyle, butThese are rods made in Japan. They don't look too bad, but check out the rod cases. They are made from Tonkin Cane culms.They're rods aren't cheap $1500.00 Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jul 27 20:45:20 2001 f6S1jKZ11376 Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sorry, I forgot to add they're address. http://member.nifty.ne.ip/hexastyle/index.htm Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jul 27 20:52:39 2001 f6S1qcZ11740 Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sorry again I missed one letter.. http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/index.htm When the screen comes up to download something, justclick cancel. It's something about the language translation orsomething. But, you don't need it. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 27 21:08:57 2001 f6S28uZ12133 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:01:39 -0700 Subject: Re: --------------AF08D0FCF0168113A4855389 Hi Travis,Yes, this question gets asked several times each year, but that's okay.You're wise to want to do some reading. That's a great way to get a general hasonly tangential applicability. As a start, browse through the archives of this list at:http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.htmlBe sure to download Bob Malucci's Power Fibers online ezine at:http://www.powerfibers.comThere are a couple of articles on the Global Fly Fisher which give a verybrief introduction to the first few steps in rodmaking at:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/rodbuilding/index.html a third article is ontheway very soon.Quite a few of the members of this list have helpful rodmaking sections totheir websites as well.As for books, you won't go wrong starting out with Wayne Cattanach'sbook orwith Jack Howell's book. My preference is for Wayne's for first-timers. Don'tstart out with Garrison, but read it after you've built a rod or two. And don'tforget Ray Gould's book, or George Maurer's. When you get really hooked onthisstuff, then read Bob Milward's book.Jump in here and ask questions. That's what keeps this list going. Harry Boyd--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- Travis Folk wrote: Hello all,Before I start buying materials I would like to do some reading on thesubject. Canany one recommend a book that will be a good introduction as well asprovidevaluable guidance while building a rod? --------------AF08D0FCF0168113A4855389 Hi Travis, That's a great way to get a general idea of what goes into making bamboo onlineezine at: http://www.powerfibers.com Fisher which give a very brief introduction to the first few steps inrodmaking a third article is on the way very soon. rodmaking sections to their websites as well. then read Bob Milward's book. keeps this list going. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- Travis Folk wrote:Hello all,Before I start buying materials I would like to do some reading on any one recommend a book that will be a good introduction as well asprovidevaluable guidance while building a rod? --------------AF08D0FCF0168113A4855389-- from iank@ts.co.nz Fri Jul 27 21:34:54 2001 f6S2YqZ12540 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 14:38:24 +1200 Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan Dave, Hardy used to make rod cases the same way. They look very nice but are alotharder to make then it seems at first impression. ( well, they are for me) The section of cane needs to be absolutely straight. This usually meansheating up the cane section and straightening it. I tried the techniquesillustrated in Luis Marden's book and still had trouble getting themabsolutely straight and they need to be absolutely straight. I suspect thereason many of them are flamed is that they have scorch marks fromstraightening. It is also quite a challenge getting the node dam walls out of the interiorof the cane. the interior needs to be absolutely flat and that is hard toachieve when trying to flatten a dam which is 2 feet away down the sectionof bamboo. I have no doubt it would be possible to make up a tool for doingthis but without such a tool it is hard work. Incidentally I found that Tonkin cane was not the best for these cases as itis heavy , hard to work on , and tends to split. Some of the other lesserwall thickness bamboos are easier to use. Ian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rods made in Japan I don't know if any of you guys have seen the site, Hexastyle, butThese are rods made in Japan. They don't look too bad, but check out therodcases. They are made from Tonkin Cane culms.They're rods aren't cheap $1500.00 Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Fri Jul 27 21:53:49 2001 f6S2rmZ12933 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 19:53:44 -0700 Subject: Re: George Grant FILETIME=[83E67A40:01C11710] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Is anyone on this list acquaintances of George Grant of Butte Montana. =We are old friends from many years back but I haven't heard from him or =about him in a long time. For those of you who don't know him he was a =well known fly tier of the 40's and 50's. Like Potts, he would hand =weave his hackle.Mark Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 6:09 PMSubject: straining hardener Try straining that hoss dung through a highly used handkerchief. That = usually be sufficient enough to take all the lumps out. Both in the = Is anyone on this list acquaintances of= Grant of Butte Montana. We are old friends from many years back but I = heard from him or about him in a long time. For those of you who don't = he was a well known fly tier of the 40's and 50's. Like Potts, he would = weave his hackle.Mark ----- Original Message ----- GRNMTRODS@aol.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 =6:09 PMSubject: straining =hardenerTry = dung through a highly used handkerchief. That well usually be = enough to take all the lumps out. Both in the hardener and in your = handkerchief Jim from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 22:01:39 2001 f6S31dZ13241 UAA18525; Subject: Bamboo info Travis, You have come to the right place. I will suggest Handcrafting Bamboo FlyRods by Wayne Attach. It is a good place to start. Be sure to check out someof the makers websites on Rodmakers. There are other books and othermethodsbut this book will give you a good feel of what you are getting yourselfinto. Best Regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Hello all,I'm new to the list and have a question that probably gets asked a lot. Ihave a real itch to build a rod, but have no exposure to rod building. Idohave a fair amount of exposure to general wood working though. Before Istart buying materials I would like to do some reading on the subject.Canany one recommend a book that will be a good introduction as well asprovidevaluable guidance while building a rod?Thanks for any help. Travis Hayes FolkGraduate Research AssistantSchool of Forestry and Wildlife SciencesAuburn University, Alabama 36849-5418 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 22:08:28 2001 f6S38QZ13514 Subject: Re: Milward on glues The short answer to (recomended by rodmakers) epoxy bond creep in rodswould have to be don't worry about it. As JZ wrote you'd see it more oftenusing PVA than epoxy in bamboo rods. For scarfs of better than 1:12scarfing angles it'd be my first choice.The science of glues is a very detailed one because it seems to be workingin at least two levels. The first level is the stickability of theglue/wood and is the obvious thing you think of and is a lot like paintsticking to wood. In fact paint can be a good glue in some applications.This is the mechanical process of forcing enough glue into the pores of thewood or into the (rough at a microscopic level) surface of what ever isbeing glued and is why you need to have the right amount of squeeze out (asthe result of propper clamping presure) during the clamping stage to getthe right thickness of glue. Too much glue fails and too little fails.The other level is thought to be at an atomic bonding level at the nexus ofglue/wood and we're now into a level just as complicated as metalurgy Idare not enter and you don't need to. Bond creep is an issue for beam makers (in what ever field be itconstruction, boat building etc) and cabinet makers and bowyers etc whenthey want to laminate different materials that move at different rates butit's not an issue for bamboo rods. Tony At 06:45 AM 7/27/01 -0700, Ray Gould wrote:Hi Harry and all,I'd have to defer comments regarding bond creep to adhesive experts but Iwould comment to rodbuilders that I have heard comments at rod buildingworkshops to the effect that some builders believed that using epoxy gluetoglue up the splines resulted not in failure but rather in a soft action rod.Ray----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:47 PMSubject: Milward on glues Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html This is the Way for men who want to learn my strategy:Perceive those things which cannot be seen.Pay attention even to trifles. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Fri Jul 27 22:16:50 2001 f6S3GnZ13805 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:16:41 -0700 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 03:16:41 GMT Subject: Re: FILETIME=[B904C6C0:01C11713] Travis: the actual construction process then reading about it. asked a though. the as well as Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 22:17:56 2001 f6S3HsZ13952 Subject: Re: Milward on glues Be very, very careful of anybody adding eye of newt to a known formula, Iknow from experience about that.A bloke I was getting epoxy from altered the formula of Shell Epon to makeit more flexable for use in marine paint but didn't tell me about it.5 nodeless rods that all failed later I'm a lot wiser and much moresuspecious. As with all things to do with rodmaking make sure you know ofany variables. Tony At 09:26 AM 7/27/01 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote:Thanks Ray,I've beent old that too. In fact, by one of the leading experts onepoxies productsarebased on Shell Epon 828 and 826, with a little "eye of newt" supposedlythrownin.We had booths next to each other at a FF show. We talked ratherextensively,and he is a fount of knowledge and information. I mostly listened, andaskedquestions, believe it or not! When I asked what glue he used in makingbamboo>rods, he said that a UF glue was the only thing really suitable. WhenI toldhim that I used Epon, he said, Nah, it won't work." I said, "Malarky, itwilltoo!" He said, "No way, all you will have is a limp noodle." I handed him aPayne 101 tapered rod glued with Epon, and said, "Maybe so, but go castthislimp noodle and tell me what you think!!" He grabbed the tip from a 3 pcversion of the Para 15 (Unsuccessful experimental taper, FYI) and almosttied itin knots. He bent it till the tiptop touched the ferrule. He studied it forhalf an hour, and went away scratching his head. He came back later andflexedit and scratched his head some more. I guess in the eyes of this one expert the epoxy should have producedsoftactions. The fact that it did not produce that soft action confoundedRalph.Perhaps this is one more case where reality speaks more loudly thantheory/ Harry Ray Gould wrote: Hi Harry and all,I'd have to defer comments regarding bond creep to adhesive experts butIwould comment to rodbuilders that I have heard comments at rod buildingworkshops to the effect that some builders believed that using epoxyglue toglue up the splines resulted not in failure but rather in a soft actionrod.Ray----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:47 PMSubject: Milward on glues Friends,I received my copy of Bob Milward's book yesterday, andlook forward to reading back over the archives, reviewingthe comments of the past few weeks. I wish I had saved thediscourse so that I might re-read it now after havingbriefly studied the book.One thing that puzzled me were some comments made aboutthe possibility of bond-creep with epoxy glues. Bob'sremarks were the first I've heard of that. I don't doubthis comments about the reliability of the urea formaldehydeglues, but I agree that there is much more room for debatein the reliability of epoxies. My question is this: haveany of you heard of, or personally experienced bond creepwith epoxies? Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 22:23:39 2001 f6S3NbZ14288 Subject: Re: Epon heat setting It *seems* you don't need to heat treat the glue when using it to glue thesplines together to make the blank but it's definately better to heat it ifyou're using it to make scarfs.If it's no problem to heat treat the whole blank though it would be worthdoing.Tony At 02:13 PM 7/27/01 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:When I first heard about epon (828), one of its attributes was that it didn't require heat curing. I remember a few posts a while back concerning this, but most of the conversations apparently took place off list. Was there ever a consensus of what the heat treating regime should be (if any) and mix ratio recommended?TIA Bill Hoy PS: I've been using 828 1:1 w/no heat treatment. I've detected no problems so far. One of my ideas was to heat treat the epon-scarfed strips (before planing) and then leave the glued-up blank un-heat treated. I think I remember that the softening point is about 100*F higher with heat treated epon. That might solve the problem of scarfs separating during straightening after the rod is finished. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 22:28:38 2001 f6S3SbZ14546 UAA02956 Subject: Get a Spine! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a Chiropractic =Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132. ="Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" =or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know =what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm =have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it =so we could use those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil When it comes to spines I take a = Being a Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book = pg. 132. "Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have no = "spine" or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this= would like to know what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a = Does a culm have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to = it so we could use those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, AdamVigil from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Jul 27 22:30:39 2001 f6S3UcZ14803 UAA11348; Subject: Re: Epon heat setting Tony, What kind of temperature are we talking about when heat treating nodelesssplices using Epon? Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon heat setting It *seems* you don't need to heat treat the glue when using it to glue thesplines together to make the blank but it's definately better to heat itifyou're using it to make scarfs.If it's no problem to heat treat the whole blank though it would be worthdoing.Tony At 02:13 PM 7/27/01 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:When I first heard about epon (828), one of its attributes was that itdidn't require heat curing. I remember a few posts a while backconcerningthis, but most of the conversations apparently took place off list. Was there ever a consensus of what the heat treating regime should be(ifany) and mix ratio recommended?TIA Bill Hoy PS: I've been using 828 1:1 w/no heat treatment. I've detected noproblemsso far. One of my ideas was to heat treat the epon-scarfed strips(beforeplaning) and then leave the glued-up blank un-heat treated. I think Iremember that the softening point is about 100*F higher with heattreatedepon. That might solve the problem of scarfs separating duringstraightening after the rod is finished. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from rjwlawed@msn.com Fri Jul 27 23:12:04 2001 f6S4C3Z15494 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:11:59 -0700 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Get a Spine! FILETIME=[72623880:01C1171B] good question adam,,,,,not that i would have the expierience to make a wieghty entry here but=it did bring to lite something i've thought about and noticed while rebu=ilding the few rods i have done so far. i did test each one to see, and t=hey all did have a spine. but i think they were due to loose tolerances i=n mass production more than from where in the circumfrance of the culmth=e spline came from. however, trees will grow with more dense growth rings=on the leeward side if they grow where there is a steadily previalant(sp=.) wind direction, as well as if they grow on a hill side, so it's possib=le that culms may have a spine(?) ,imagine that!i would assume that theoreticly, only if the culm had a spine and you =used a spline from that area would you get a spline in a rod section if a=ll the flats were the exact same width and depth whish is darned awful ha=rd to do, i would think.which brings up a question i have considering i'm=green as a fresh cut culm here. what amount of difference in flat width =does everyone consider acceptable?.......i know, i know...."0"----- Original Message ----- Subject: Get a Spine! Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a Chiropractic =Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlik=e modern materials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" or sti=ffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know wha=t other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culmhave=a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it so we=could use those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil good question adam,,,,, but it did bring to lite something i've thought about and noticed while =rebuilding the few rods i have done so far. i did test each one to see, a=nd they all did have a spine. but i think they were due to loose toleranc=es in mass production more than from where in the circumfrance of the cul=m the spline came from. however, trees will grow with more dense growth r=ings on the leeward side if they grow where there is a steadily previalan=t(sp.) wind direction, as well as if they grow on a hill side, so it's po=ssible that culms may have a spine(?) if the culm had a spine and you used a spline from that area would you ge=t a spline in a rod section if all the flats were the exact same width an=d depth whish is darned awful hard to do, i would think.which brings up a=question i have considering i'm green as a fresh cut culm here. what amo=unt of difference in flat width does everyone consider acceptable?.......=i know, i know...."0" ----- Original Message ----- = ropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 1=32. "Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spi= I have my own personal thoughts on this mattera=nd would like to know what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have =a spine? Does a culm have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be loo= lets h= dam Vigil from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jul 27 23:18:36 2001 f6S4IaZ15800 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:11:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! --------------79713B471A17736B9CD68427 Adam, In a discussion about making tips with book-matchednodes, a rodmaker friend of mine for whom I have a greatdeal of respect once opined on this list that well-madebamboo rods should have no spine. That may well be so. If it is, then I've never made many reall good rodsections. Nearly every single section I have ever made hassome sort of a spine, or stiffest side, or kick. In bamboo,this phenomenon seems much less prominent than in graphite.But it's still there. To locate the guides, I roll the rodsection while bending it at about 45*, and feel for thekick. There is almost always at least a slight kick. OnceI feel the kick, I allow the rod to come to rest in arelaxed curve. I then place the guides on the inside, orconcave side of the bend.As an aside, nearly a year ago I tested one of thewell-known makers tips. You know, the guy who said thatgood bamboo rods should have no spine. Wanna guess what Ifound? Nope, you're wrong. His section had no stiffest side....And it was absolutely beautiful, and cast like a dream,no kidding. Harry Adam Vigil wrote: Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personalinterest. Being a Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when BobMilward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlike modernmaterials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine"or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personalthoughts on this matter and would like to know what otherRodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does aculm have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we belooking to identify it so we could use those stripsstrategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------79713B471A17736B9CD68427 Adam, nodes, a rodmaker friend of mine for whom I have a great deal of respectonce opined on this list that well-made bamboo rods should have no That may well be so. To locate the guides, I roll the rod section while bending it at about side of the bend. dream, no kidding. Adam Vigil wrote: to spines I take a personal interest. Being a Chiropractic Doctor and all.So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlike modern materials,a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" or stiffer plane of have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know whatother Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm havea spine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it so we Vigil --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------79713B471A17736B9CD68427-- from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jul 27 23:23:26 2001 f6S4NPZ16046 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Get a Spine! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Should it? Theoretically, no. Take six like strips side by side (as =many do) from the same culm and taper all of them identically and there =should be no weak or strong side. Real life: Yep... I've have a lot =that I could not detect it in (although I feel sure it was there, just =so very slight that it couldn't be felt by a roll of the section), but =the majority had a detectable kick in them. It won't be much of one if =things are right, but it will probably be there... maybe it's the =differences in the cellular structure of each individual strip, or maybe =it's our inaccuracy. I know we all are proud of how accurate we make =rods, but think about it... we work to get no more than 0.001 difference =flat to flat, but one flat to flat measurement being 0.0005 (half of my =spec) smaller than the others could make one side have a perceptable =kick... don't know about anyone else out there, but if I get within a =half a thousandths flat to flat all the way up a rod, I'm a happy =camper. Just my 2 cents,BobR.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:31 PMSubject: Get a Spine! Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a =Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on =pg. 132. "Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have no =detectable "spine" or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know =what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm =have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it =so we could use those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil side by side (as many do) from the same culm and taper all of them = have a lot that I could not detect it in (although I feel sure it was = just so very slight that it couldn't be felt by a roll of the section), = are right, but it will probably be there... maybe it's the differences = cellular structure of each individual strip, or maybe it's our = we work to get no more than 0.001 difference flat to flat, but one flat = measurement being 0.0005 (half of my spec) smaller than the others could = one side have a perceptable kick... don't know about anyone else out = if I get within a half a thousandths flat to flat all the way up a rod, = happy camper. Just my 2 cents,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 = PMSubject: Get a Spine! When it comes to spines I take a = interest. Being a Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in = states on pg. 132. "Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have = detectable "spine" or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on = and would like to know what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod = spine? Does a culm have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be = rod? So lets hear it, Adam =Vigil from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Fri Jul 27 23:46:27 2001 f6S4kPZ16570 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 14:46:22 +1000 Subject: Re: taper FILETIME=[3FF64120:01C11720] Harry: I was interested to see the reference to a different thicknessof varnish at the tip and butt. Most tapers I have looked at refer to asingle thickness, like deduct 4 thou for varnish. Can you elaborate onthat? Thanks. Sean Harry Boyd wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 23:48:50 2001 f6S4mlZ16757 Subject: Re: Glues and more glue "Adam Vigil" There are a few people making UF around and they all seem to work ok. It'sused to make kitchen laminates so you may try a place that sells that stuffandsee if they can point you to their supplier who'd likely give you what to themis a tiny amount. These guys use it with melamine in it which helps itstick toslick surfaces and could only help.It's also worth trying ply wood makers who use it for interior ply and useresorcinol for marine and external plys. Borden of the UK make liquid UF and the hardener for it and I like this stuffvery much and it keeps in the fridge for at least a year. I use it in boatworkas well as rods when I can actually get to make one occasionally. Being liquidit's easy to measure and good to work with BUT I can't get any specs fromthemnor can I help with getting it in the US which I tried doing recently.When I was making nodeless rods I only used Epon for the scarfs and splinesbutI use this UF for all other glue ups and now I tend to make normal rods (notnodeless) this is the only glue I'll use as long as I can get it. I have tobuyit by the gallon so a lot is wasted but I think it's worth it especially asI'msensitized to epoxys so I don't need to dress like I'm about to do an EVA asNASA call it. Borden UK also make another UF glue made from skim milk byproduct theycallCascomite. There is some confusion in my mind at least with CascomitebecauseI've heard of it coming from a couple of different sources but the Borden UKstuff is definitely from milk and it works too. It's mixed with water and used to be called cold water glue, it's drawback isvery fast setup time and I made a couple of rods using it. It's not bad forcabinet use and general laminating. It's advantage is it's the cheapestglue ofit's kind you can get. It's drawback is also the min volumes.A few years ago I bought a boat that lives on a mooring and I needed a yachttender right away. I was broke because I just bought a boat so used thecheapest exterior ply I could get and made a clinker dingy using Cascomite. Itcost $70 all up to make and I expected it to fall to bits in 6 months but I'vetowed it about 1,000 miles, leave it on the bank under a tree that's had kidsplay with it every weekend during Summer and I once found it half buriedaftera particularly savage storm and it's still going after 5 years. There is a brand here in Aust called Selly's ("If it's Selley's it works" istheir propaganda) who make a glue called 308 in which the glue comes as apowder in a tin, there is a liquid hardener and a small amount of powder formof melamine that comes in a foil packet and this stuff is great because itglues hardwoods as well as resorcinol without needing as much pressure andisn't affected by temperatures which some of the resorcinol formulas are. Ipresume it's the melamine in it that makes the dif. Of course it's not 100%water proof as Resorcinol is but then again what other glue is?This too has a shelf life but it's strange in that it can look like it's beensitting in the shop for 5 years but works fine. Once you open the tin thecountdown begins.We get this in handyman volumes in any hardware store in the land same asResorcinol. Tony from my understanding, Borden UF is basically the same thing as URAC. Goldenwitch sells the Borden UF resin in Pint quanities, but it comes withthe walnut shell medium as a hardener, however, they also sell theAmmoniumChloride seperate (I believe under the product name "K-6") as a powder soyoucan mix your own hardener. Buying in pint quantities, you won't have anyworries about shelf life. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 23:48:50 2001 f6S4mmZ16758 Subject: Re: Partridge blank question You see them here from time to time and I personally think the actions areawful. The workmanship is ok. Tony At 08:45 PM 7/27/01 +0000, Dennis Frazier Irvine wrote:Hi- I'm new to the list. Was hoping someone might have an opinion about the split bamboo blankssold by Cabella's. Partridge of Redditch is the manufactures name. Specifically the 6' 3/4 wieght 2piece, they charge $300 (described asBritish Action?-) and the 7'6" 4 piece for 6wieght at $340. This would be my first rod building attempt. The Cabella's site gives noinfo like tip end diameter or butt end which makes this more confusing. Thanks Dennis /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 23:48:53 2001 f6S4moZ16767 Subject: Re: Epon heat setting Not much. I only tried heat setting it a couple of times after I saw theadvantages before going away from nodeless and don't use Epon now for thesplines but 1hr @ 150 f seems to be a good starting point to try but it maybe better with more or less I'm afraid I haven't done this enough to be ofmuch help here.I spoke with a bower recently who was telling me I should use the glue hedoes becuase it's so good etc and it turned out he's using Shell Epon. Hetold me the glue works fine without heat setting which I also found but ifyou thermaly heat set it the temp it needs to reach before failing onceit's cured is elevated and it's shear strength is greater also which isalso what I was finding out. Obviously this is of supreme importance for a bower using differentmaterials under almost failure stresses every time the bow is used. Also,cars get very hot with the windows wound up so nobody want's their bow toexplode after taking it from the car. from a rodmaking point of view I don't think from what I've seen it'simperative to heat set the glue but it's prob worth it. Incidently, when I was in my teens I made a laminated bow and used the oldman's car with the windows wound up sitting in the sun as my oven tothermaly set the epoxy. This was back when most if not all epoxys neededthermal setting to work at all. The bow's 55# and still going.Steve Erwin's on the idiot box playing with a Tiapan, I've got to go watchand cheer on the snake :-) Tony At 08:34 PM 7/27/01 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:Tony, What kind of temperature are we talking about when heat treating nodelesssplices using Epon? Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Cc: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:26 PMSubject: Re: Epon heat setting It *seems* you don't need to heat treat the glue when using it to glue thesplines together to make the blank but it's definately better to heat itifyou're using it to make scarfs.If it's no problem to heat treat the whole blank though it would be worthdoing.Tony At 02:13 PM 7/27/01 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:When I first heard about epon (828), one of its attributes was that itdidn't require heat curing. I remember a few posts a while backconcerningthis, but most of the conversations apparently took place off list. Was there ever a consensus of what the heat treating regime should be(ifany) and mix ratio recommended?TIA Bill Hoy PS: I've been using 828 1:1 w/no heat treatment. I've detected noproblemsso far. One of my ideas was to heat treat the epon-scarfed strips(beforeplaning) and then leave the glued-up blank un-heat treated. I think Iremember that the softening point is about 100*F higher with heattreatedepon. That might solve the problem of scarfs separating duringstraightening after the rod is finished. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 23:48:55 2001 f6S4mrZ16771 Subject: Re: Planing forms If you have a look at my site I have some info you may find of use makingadjustable wooden forms. Tony At 02:39 PM 7/27/01 -0400, Peter Van Schaack wrote:Hello all, I have been contemplating buy planing forms. My questions is; Golden Witchoffers wooden forms as a less expensive alternate to their steel forms,hasanyone used these forms? Has anyone built similar wood forms and usedthem? If so, is the process similar to building the steel forms as described Thanks for your help and support, Pete /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jul 27 23:48:57 2001 f6S4msZ16775 Subject: Re: Glues and more glue ,"Adam Vigil" Apparently ueras have recently been taken of the severe carcinogens listsbut Icould be wrong here. In any case you really should use them in a very wellventilated area because feeling weird in a bad way, headache, nausea and theshakes is pretty common. The Selly's 308 I mentioned is very bad for this,muchworse than the Borden liquid stuff. The first time I used it I was workingin a10' x 10' garden shed and after 10 mins I had to get out and sit around for awhile.I now work in a well ventilated space and don't ever get these problems. Tony normal... After my little a$$ chewing from this other maker, I startedusinggood quality latex gloves and wearing a respirator and now I don't haveanyproblems at all with physical illness after gluing. I don't think thisstuff does this to everyone, as I know a few that thought it was strangethat the URAC made me ill, but maybe I am a little sensitive to theformaldehyde. /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you love a thing let it go,If it returns it's yours,If it doesn't, hunt it down and kill it. /**************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jul 28 04:54:15 2001 f6S9sEZ20944 sender ) Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan I have seen these rods at a show in Mass. a few years ago. The ones Isaw were made not with tonkin but with a Japanese cane. Very light incolor and very well made. The only problem is the stereotype caused bythe importation of cheap Japanese rods in the 50's. Marty LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Sorry again I missed one letter.. http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/index.htm When the screen comes up to download something, justclick cancel. It's something about the language translation orsomething. But, you don't need it. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from rsgould@cmc.net Sat Jul 28 07:22:23 2001 f6SCMMZ21947 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. It's time for me to weigh in on this one. There is a big difference =between "should have no spine" and the reality of the fact that most do =have a "spine". Almost every rod section I've tested does have a spine, =sometimes very pronounced. There's quite a thorough discussion about =this in Letcher Lambuth's book " The Angler's Workshop. There you'll =find his thinking as to why it is true and how to "synchronize" (I love =that term) a rod.Ray Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:31 PMSubject: Get a Spine! Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a =Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on =pg. 132. "Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have no =detectable "spine" or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know =what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm =have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it =so we could use those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil It's time for me to weigh in on this = a big difference between "should have no spine" and the reality of the = most do have a "spine". Almost every rod section I've tested does have a = = this in Letcher Lambuth's book " The Angler's Workshop. There you'll = thinking as to why it is true and how to "synchronize" (I love that = rod.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 =8:31 PMSubject: Get a Spine! When it comes to spines I take a = interest. Being a Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in = states on pg. 132. "Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have = detectable "spine" or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on = and would like to know what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod = spine? Does a culm have a spine? If a culm has a spine should we be = rod? So lets hear it, Adam =Vigil from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jul 28 08:09:29 2001 f6SD9SZ22695 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Multi-weight rods All,I have rods that I can cast with a WF5, that someone that always double hauls might want to cast with a WF4. But I haven't met any rods that can handle three line weights using the same casting style. Have any of you had other experiences?Here is some marketing gibberish put out by one custom FRP rodcompany. Can anyone make sense of this?"This is our way of providing the greatest versatility in rod design. All of our rods can comfortably cast three, varying line weights. This doesn't change the intended use of each rod, it simply allows greater individual expression. Our taper and material formulas are unique. We have designed and engineered our rods with uniformly progressive power. This means: the more load applied to the tip of the rod, the more progressively it transfers through to the butt; the greater the load in the butt of the rod, the greater the storage capacity reserved in the tip. This results in high casting performance for virtually all casting styles. Our unique tapers actually adjust to the load weight of each line and to the unique casting stroke of every angler. C__________ rods are designed and compression rated to allow an increase or decrease in load capacity without energy loss. The benefit of the three line weight designation is staggering. The action of every rod can be enhanced to suit the individual preference of the angler, and to meet his or her specific technical requirements."-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jul 28 08:22:12 2001 f6SDMCZ24136 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! --------------71F531423D6B1E31C2327F83 Every culm of bamboo has a "spine", "spline" or stiff side. On a culm itis located in relation to where the predominate winds are blowing at theplantation. If every Culm has a stiff side every rod does to. No bigdeal though because I think a rod is supposed to cast a line thatcarries a fly (or kernel of corn in Andy's case) and catches a fish.This is what it's all about. Marty Ray Gould wrote: It's time for me to weigh in on this one. There is a big differencebetween "should have no spine" and the reality of the fact that mostdo have a "spine". Almost every rod section I've tested does have aspine, sometimes very pronounced. There's quite a thorough discussionabout this in Letcher Lambuth's book " The Angler's Workshop. Thereyou'll find his thinking as to why it is true and how to "synchronize"(I love that term) a rod.Ray ----- Original Message -----From: Adam Vigil Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:31 PMSubject: Get a Spine!Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personalinterest. Being a Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when BobMilward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlike modernmaterials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" orstiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughtson this matter and would like to know what other Rodmakersthink. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm have aspine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil --------------71F531423D6B1E31C2327F83 Every culm of bamboo has a "spine", "spline" or stiff side. On a culm itis located in relation to where the predominate winds are blowing at theplantation. If every Culm has a stiff side every rod does to. No big dealthough because I think a rod is supposed to cast a line that carries afly (or kernel of corn in Andy's case) and catches a fish. This is whatit's all about. MartyRay Gould wrote: It'stime for me to weigh in on this one. There is a big difference between"should have no spine" and the reality of the fact that most do have a"spine". Almost every rod section I've tested does have a spine, sometimesvery pronounced. There's quite a thorough discussion about this in LetcherLambuth's book " The Angler's Workshop. There you'll find his thinkingas to why it is true and how to "synchronize" (I love that term) arod.Ray ----- Original Message ----- From:AdamVigil Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:31PM Subject: Get a Spine! it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a Chiropractic Doctorand all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlike modernmaterials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" or stiffer plane my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know what otherRodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm have aspine?If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it so we could use Vigil --------------71F531423D6B1E31C2327F83-- from rjwlawed@msn.com Sat Jul 28 08:23:00 2001 f6SDMxZ24313 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:22:55 -0700 "Adam Vigil" Subject: Re: Glues and more glue FILETIME=[6913FDC0:01C11768] i used selly's a few years ago on a 1938 vintage star sloop(reg.#1839)=that i converted to dry cockpit day sailor with a box and winch for the=keel. that was quite a job. i reinforced to keelson and cut the mounting=flange off the ballast keel and built a welded,steel frame for the keel =to slide in and a step on top for the mast. in order to stabilize the the=center box i incorporated a small,low cuddy with the bulkhead right at t=he back of the box. the cuddy is just two sided storage. this boat is tra=iored and it's still tight . it sails pretty good , maybe just a bit lee,=the step could have been aft a bit more.i reduced the mainsail area and =eliminated most of the tuneable rig,that moved the effort ahead, but beca=use fin leans forward the top of the box didn't allow me to move the step=back without some sort of extension aft off the aft end of the box and t=hat just wouldn't work out in the cockpit, so i left the mast in it's or=iginal position where it meets the top of the cuddy. it's only a problem =when the wind really picks up. then i just don't go out.it was a fun project that took a year and a half to complete. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glues and more glue There are a few people making UF around and they all seem to work ok. It='sused to make kitchen laminates so you may try a place that sells that stu=ffandsee if they can point you to their supplier who'd likely give you what to=themis a tiny amount. These guys use it with melamine in it which helps itstick toslick surfaces and could only help.It's also worth trying ply wood makers who use it for interior ply and us=eresorcinol for marine and external plys. Borden of the UK make liquid UF and the hardener for it and I like this s=tuffvery much and it keeps in the fridge for at least a year. I use it in boa=tworkas well as rods when I can actually get to make one occasionally. Being l=iquidit's easy to measure and good to work with BUT I can't get any specs from=themnor can I help with getting it in the US which I tried doing recently.When I was making nodeless rods I only used Epon for the scarfs and splin=esbutI use this UF for all other glue ups and now I tend to make normal rods (=notnodeless) this is the only glue I'll use as long as I can get it. I have =tobuyit by the gallon so a lot is wasted but I think it's worth it especially =asI'msensitized to epoxys so I don't need to dress like I'm about to do an EVA=asNASA call it. Borden UK also make another UF glue made from skim milk byproduct theyca=llCascomite. There is some confusion in my mind at least with Cascomite bec=auseI've heard of it coming from a couple of different sources but the Borden=UKstuff is definitely from milk and it works too.It's mixed with water and used to be called cold water glue, it's drawbac=k isvery fast setup time and I made a couple of rods using it. It's not bad f=orcabinet use and general laminating. It's advantage is it's the cheapestglue ofit's kind you can get. It's drawback is also the min volumes.A few years ago I bought a boat that lives on a mooring and I needed a ya=chttender right away. I was broke because I just bought a boat so used thecheapest exterior ply I could get and made a clinker dingy using Cascomit=e. Itcost $70 all up to make and I expected it to fall to bits in 6 months but=I'vetowed it about 1,000 miles, leave it on the bank under a tree that's had =kidsplay with it every weekend during Summer and I once found it half buried =aftera particularly savage storm and it's still going after 5 years. There is a brand here in Aust called Selly's ("If it's Selley's it works"=istheir propaganda) who make a glue called 308 in which the glue comes as apowder in a tin, there is a liquid hardener and a small amount of powder =formof melamine that comes in a foil packet and this stuff is great because i=tglues hardwoods as well as resorcinol without needing as much pressure an=disn't affected by temperatures which some of the resorcinol formulas are.=Ipresume it's the melamine in it that makes the dif. Of course it's not 10=0%water proof as Resorcinol is but then again what other glue is?This too has a shelf life but it's strange in that it can look like it's =beensitting in the shop for 5 years but works fine. Once you open the tin thecountdown begins.We get this in handyman volumes in any hardware store in the land same asResorcinol. Tony from my understanding, Borden UF is basically the same thing as URA=C.Goldenwitch sells the Borden UF resin in Pint quanities, but it comes w=iththe walnut shell medium as a hardener, however, they also sell the Ammo=niumChloride seperate (I believe under the product name "K-6") as a powder =soyoucan mix your own hardener. Buying in pint quantities, you won't have a=nyworries about shelf life. /************************************************************************=*/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /************************************************************************=*/ tony, a box and winch for the keel. that was quite a job. i reinforced to keel=son and cut the mounting flange off the ballast keel and built a welded,s=teel frame for the keel to slide in and a step on top for the mast. in or=der to stabilize the the center box i incorporated a small,low cuddy with=the bulkhead right at the back of the box. the cuddy is just two sided s= good , maybe just a bit lee,the step could have been aft a bit more.i re= t moved the effort ahead, but because fin leans forward the top of the bo=x didn't allow me to move the step back without some sort of extension af=t off the aft end of the box and that just wouldn't work out in the cockp= s the top of the cuddy. it's only a problem when the wind really picks up= ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Young Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 12:31 caneman@clnk.com Cc: Rod Makers List Serve; AdamVigi=l Subject: Re: Glues andmor= and= o you may try a place that sells that stuffandsee if they can poi=nt you to their supplier who'd likely give you what to themis a tiny =amount. These guys use it with melamine in it which helps itstick toslick surfaces and could only help.It's also worth trying ply wood=makers who use it for interior ply and useresorcinol for marine and =external plys.Borden of the UK make liquid UF and the hardenerfo=r it and I like this stuffvery much and it keeps in the fridge for at=least a year. I use it in boatworkas well as rods when I can act=ually get to make one occasionally. Being liquidit's easy to measure =and good to work with BUT I can't get any specs from themnor can I he=lp with getting it in the US which I tried doing recently.When I was =making nodeless rods I only used Epon for the scarfs and splinesbutI use this UF for all other glue ups and now I tend to make normal rods=(notnodeless) this is the only glue I'll use as long as I can get it=. I have tobuyit by the gallon so a lot is wasted but I think it'=s worth it especially asI'msensitized to epoxys so I don't need t=o dress like I'm about to do an EVA asNASA call it.Borden UK=also make another UF glue made from skim milk byproduct theycallCasc=omite. There is some confusion in my mind at least with Cascomite because=I've heard of it coming from a couple of different sources but the Bo=rden UKstuff is definitely from milk and it works too.It's mixed =with water and used to be called cold water glue, it's drawback isver=y fast setup time and I made a couple of rods using it. It's not bad forcabinet use and general laminating. It's advantage is it's the cheapes=tglue ofit's kind you can get. It's drawback is also the min volu=mes.A few years ago I bought a boat that lives on a mooring and I nee=ded a yachttender right away. I was broke because I just bought a boa=t so used thecheapest exterior ply I could get and made a clinker din=gy using Cascomite. Itcost $70 all up to make and I expected it to fa=ll to bits in 6 months but I'vetowed it about 1,000 miles, leave it o=n the bank under a tree that's had kidsplay with it every weekend dur=ing Summer and I once found it half buried aftera particularly savage=storm and it's still going after 5 years.There is a brand here i=n Aust called Selly's ("If it's Selley's it works" istheir propaganda=) who make a glue called 308 in which the glue comes as apowder in a =tin, there is a liquid hardener and a small amount of powder formof m=elamine that comes in a foil packet and this stuff is great because itglues hardwoods as well as resorcinol without needing as much pressure a=ndisn't affected by temperatures which some of the resorcinolformula=s are. Ipresume it's the melamine in it that makes the dif. Of course=it's not 100%water proof as Resorcinol is but then again what other =glue is?This too has a shelf life but it's strange in that it can loo=k like it's beensitting in the shop for 5 years but works fine. Once =you open the tin thecountdown begins.We get this inhandyman =volumes in any hardware store in the land sameasResorcinol.T= understanding, Bo= shell medium as a hardener, however, they also sell the Chloride seperate (I believe under the product name "K-6") as a powder s= quantiti= life./*********************************************************************=****/AV YoungVisit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/=flyrod.htmlWindows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen ofDea=th.No one hears yourscreams.Unknown/****************=*********************************************************/ from utzerath@execpc.com Sat Jul 28 08:28:09 2001 f6SDS8Z24700 f6SDSX041140; f6SDS7v48741; Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan That's interesting, Marty. Our friend, Max, from this list, said he used native canes at leastoccasionally. He said he would send me his results from his own bendingmodulus measurements. He too was concerned about the proper way toscalethe dimensions to compensate for the MOE difference. If he is tuned inmaybe he might let us all know the result when he's satisfied with isnumbers. Jim U ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan I have seen these rods at a show in Mass. a few years ago. The ones Isaw were made not with tonkin but with a Japanese cane. Very light incolor and very well made. The only problem is the stereotype caused bythe importation of cheap Japanese rods in the 50's. Marty LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Sorry again I missed one letter.. http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/index.htm When the screen comes up to download something, justclick cancel. It's something about the language translation orsomething. But, you don't need it. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Sat Jul 28 08:44:02 2001 f6SDi1Z25246 Subject: Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi All, When signing a rod is it customary to include the name of the taper =originator..for instance if I make a rod using a FE Thomas taper should =this be included on the signature? My thought is of course it should be =included, and this leads to another question.....if in designing a rod =....the maker chooses a particular taper from notes or archives, let's =say a Garrison taper and wanting a slightly different action to the =rod..."tweaks" this taper a couple of thousandths in places to achieve =the desired action...whose taper is it....a modified Garrison...or a =taper developed by the maker...? thanks,losey Hi All, When signing a rod is it customary to = name of the taper originator..for instance if I make a rod using a FE = taper should this be included on the signature? My thought is of course = should be included, and this leads to another question.....if in = ....the maker chooses a particular taper from notes or archives, let's = rod..."tweaks" this taper a couple of thousandths in places to achieve = desired action...whose taper is it....a modified Garrison...or a taper = thanks,losey from owen@davies.mv.com Sat Jul 28 08:50:23 2001 f6SDoMZ25530 Subject: Re: Glues and more glue Tony Young commented about urea-formaldehyde glues. Interesting. Seems to me that Cascamite was used for years inbuilding wood airplanes. In that vein, there's Aerolite glue, whichwas used in that application from WWII until just recently, whenit was taken off the FAA's approved list because it deterioratedafter years of baking in the extreme temperatures you get in anairplane wing sitting in the sun in a hot climate. Nothing thatwould prevent it from being used in rods, though. Last I knew,Aircraft Spruce still sold a 1.5- lb kit of powder and hardener and a half-pound of formaldehyde, but they list the shelf life of theurea powder as only two years. It does like tight joints; no gapfilling ability at all. Any thoughts? Tony Spezio? Owen Davies from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Jul 28 09:19:15 2001 f6SEJEZ25994 ;Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:19:06 +0200 Subject: Sv: Multi-weight rods f6SEJFZ25995 OK Reed - I'll give it a try With the heaviest line it is a rod designed fordelicate presentation at close range - designed forthe mature angler who stalks individual, selective,educatd trout that blah blah blah....... With the lightest line You have a rod which isin the forefront of tomorrows technology - trulya rod that casts a long line. The graphite is thelatest type XXLCV-908 also used in cruise missiles.This company have created the ligthest, stiffestrod in this class ever made. Now You can trulyreach out to those individual, selective, educatedtrout far away blah blah blah........ So what do You think? Have You read something likethis before??? regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Multi-weight rods All,I have rods that I can cast with a WF5, that someone that always double hauls might want to cast with a WF4. But I haven't met any rods that can handle three line weights using the same casting style. Have any of you had other experiences?Here is some marketing gibberish put out by one custom FRP rod company. Can anyone make sense of this?"This is our way of providing the greatest versatility in rod design. All of our rods can comfortably cast three, varying line weights. This doesn't change the intended use of each rod, it simply allows greater individual expression. Our taper and material formulas are unique. We have designed and engineered our rods with uniformly progressive power. This means: the more load applied to the tip of the rod, the more progressively it transfers through to the butt; the greater the load in the butt of the rod, the greater the storage capacity reserved in the tip. This results in high casting performance for virtually all casting styles. Our unique tapers actually adjust to the load weight of each line and to the unique casting stroke of every angler. C__________ rods are designed and compression rated to allow an increase or decrease in load capacity without energy loss. The benefit of the three line weight designation is staggering. The action of every rod can be enhanced to suit the individual preference of the angler, and to meet his or her specific technical requirements."-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jul 28 10:04:55 2001 f6SF4sZ26603 f6SF4dZ05717;Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:04:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Glues and more glue I have used both glues for aircraft. The wings on my plane were builtusing Cascamite glue and rebuilt a set of Glider wings with Cascamite.Don't know about the glider but my wings are still glued up after 41years. Used it in all my wood spar and rib repairs. I spent over 48 yearsin aircraft work. When we were building airplanes in the fifties therewas not a great selection of glue to use for wood aircraft building orrepair.I have also used the Arolite on aircraft projects. Did not care for ittoo much. The unused portion went bad too quick. Mixing was critical.Made several small boats and a canoe using Cascamite glue, they held upwhile I owned them. Working time would be short, I would say it is notthe ideal glue for rod making, there are better glues now . When it comesto airplanes I might know something but still in the learning stage aboutrodmaking.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Owen Davies wrote: Tony Young commented about urea-formaldehyde glues. Interesting. Seems to me that Cascamite was used for years inbuilding wood airplanes. In that vein, there's Aerolite glue, whichwas used in that application from WWII until just recently, whenit was taken off the FAA's approved list because it deterioratedafter years of baking in the extreme temperatures you get in anairplane wing sitting in the sun in a hot climate. Nothing thatwould prevent it from being used in rods, though. Last I knew,Aircraft Spruce still sold a 1.5- lb kit of powder and hardener and a half-pound of formaldehyde, but they list the shelf life of theurea powder as only two years. It does like tight joints; no gapfilling ability at all. Any thoughts? Tony Spezio? Owen Davies from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jul 28 10:32:04 2001 f6SFW3Z27048 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods OK Reed, Gonna stick my neck out here, and all you guys out there that want,hammer away on me, because what I'm about to say really shouldn't happen,atleast in my experience.I had a rod in Grayling that I wish you would have cast. It was a 7'quadrate. I think Olaf cast it (I've been asleep since then and can'tremember for sure) but in any case, we used 3 different lines on it, all DTsilks, 3, 4 and 5... it cast all equally well.... I did NOT intend this tobe a multiline rod, it was designed as a 3wt and it casts a 3 just great,but it also casts a 4 or a 5 dt with the same authority and accuracy. Idunno what happened here! I built it for a three, had never cast anythingbut a 3 on it and was tickled to death that it did so well with a three.After I got back from Grayling, went fishing on the White, where I used a4dt Cortland line on it... cast just as well as it did with a 3, except thatI could get a bit more distance out of it, BUT it still doesn't feelunderlined with a 3, at least to me. OH, and it will roll cast the devilout of all three line wts.OK, I know that it would make a little sense for it to be good with a 4close in and a 3 for longer casts, but this rod casts good at all distanceswith all three lines. It loads "differently" with the three lines, but itstill casts them all equally well, which, by all my experience andknowledge, it should NOT!Is it the taper? Again, not "I dunno" (read the Okie accent into that).This is basically my 7' hex taper, converted to quad, but at the firststation below the ferrule, I changed the conversion factor all the way tothe butt, sloping down from .93 to .86. At first, I thought "this one isgoing to be junk... just too light in the butt", but it turned out not tobe. Matter of fact, when you get some line out, this thing really comesalive and developes more power than I imagined it could, again, with allthree lines.In the past, all of my rods have been pretty much line specific. Inother words, if they were built for a 4, then they cast a 4 and that was it.A line heavier overloaded the rod, a line lighter wouldn't load it properly.This rod is different. So, now I'm thinking maybe it was the conversionslope that I used... Nope! I used the same conversion slope for a 5'6" 4 wtquad and it will cast a 4 wt and nothing else. Well, it will cast otherlines, but a 3 doesn't load it properly and a 5 overloads it a bit.Okie Dokie... care to venture a guess on what happened with this rod?Keep in mind that my quad experience is limited to only 4 rods so far, otherthan building new tips for a broken up Edwards.Anyone that cast this rod at Grayling, chime in and give your opinion...I think Bob M. cast it quite a lot, and Bret R. also... I think it was Bretthat started trying different lines on it.In any case, the rod has me confused and pleased at the same time...first multiline bamboo rod I've ever built... just wish I knew WHY it cameout the way it did. Later,Bob All,I have rods that I can cast with a WF5, that someone that always doublehauls might want to cast with a WF4. But I haven't met any rods that canhandle three line weights using the same casting style. Have any of youhad other experiences?Here is some marketing gibberish put out by one custom FRP rod company.Can anyone make sense of this?"This is our way of providing the greatest versatility in rod design.All of our rods can comfortably cast three, varying line weights. Thisdoesn't change the intended use of each rod, it simply allows greaterindividual expression. Our taper and material formulas are unique. Wehave designed and engineered our rods with uniformly progressive power.This means: the more load applied to the tip of the rod, the moreprogressively it transfers through to the butt; the greater the load inthe butt of the rod, the greater the storage capacity reserved in thetip. This results in high casting performance for virtually all castingstyles. Our unique tapers actually adjust to the load weight of eachline and to the unique casting stroke of every angler. C__________ rodsare designed and compression rated to allow an increase or decrease inload capacity without energy loss. The benefit of the three line weightdesignation is staggering. The action of every rod can be enhanced tosuit the individual preference of the angler, and to meet his or herspecific technical requirements."--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 28 10:32:47 2001 f6SFWkZ27172 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:25:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! --------------F9C6AF1F33645243171BAF24 Ray,Letcher Lambuth's book isn't in my library, and at it'scurrent price in used bookstores I doubt it will be any timesoon. Would you mind summarizing his thoughts in a sentenceor two? Harry Ray Gould wrote: There's quite a thorough discussion about this in LetcherLambuth's book " The Angler's Workshop. There you'll findhis thinking as to why it is true and how to "synchronize"(I love that term) a rod. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------F9C6AF1F33645243171BAF24 Ray, at it's current price in used bookstores I doubt it will be any time Would you mind summarizing his thoughts in a sentence or two? Ray Gould wrote:There's quite athorough discussion about this in Letcher Lambuth's book " The Angler'sWorkshop. There you'll find his thinking as to why it is true and how to"synchronize" (I love that term) a rod.--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------F9C6AF1F33645243171BAF24-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 28 10:38:04 2001 f6SFc4Z27513 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:31:17 -0700 Subject: Re: taper Hi Sean,If you deduct a single thickness of say .004" for varnish on the rod,you're probably going to be very close. I know that my rods often have onemore coat of varnish on butts than on tips. Mid sections are more oftenlike butts than tips. It just seems to take an average of one more coat toget the butts looking perfect. Usually two coats on tips, and three onbutts. So down the road 50 years if for some strange reason one wants tomeasure one of my two piece rods, he should deduct about .0025" from tips,and .0035" from butts. All assuming no overcoats of varnish... I suspect I'm not the only one who winds up with more varnish onbutts. And even this isn't completely correct, because even in a dip tankthe varnish thickness does not come out completely even. The thickness atthe ferrule end of a butt might be .003" and at the cork end .005". Is that confusing enough? Harry Sean McSharry wrote: Harry: I was interested to see the reference to a different thicknessof varnish at the tip and butt. Most tapers I have looked at refer to asingle thickness, like deduct 4 thou for varnish. Can you elaborate onthat? Thanks. Sean Harry Boyd wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from oborge@mwt.net Sat Jul 28 10:42:36 2001 f6SFgZZ27721 , Subject: RE: Multi-weight rods Bob,When I cast that rod with a DT3 I cast the line. When I cast the rod with aDT 5 the rod did the work. I prefer that the rod do the work, but I am muchsmaller and older the you. Olaf BorgeSilk fly lines bought and soldE6907 Monument Rock RoadFranklin Township Vernon County WisconsinURL: www.silkflylines.comMail: P.O. Box 361 Viroqua, Wisconsin 54665Email: oborge@mwt.netPhone: 608-675-3509 Fax: 608-675-3681 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods OK Reed, Gonna stick my neck out here, and all you guys out there that want,hammer away on me, because what I'm about to say really shouldn't happen,atleast in my experience.I had a rod in Grayling that I wish you would have cast. It was a 7'quadrate. I think Olaf cast it (I've been asleep since then and can'tremember for sure) but in any case, we used 3 different lines on it, all DTsilks, 3, 4 and 5... it cast all equally well.... I did NOT intend this tobe a multiline rod, it was designed as a 3wt and it casts a 3 just great,but it also casts a 4 or a 5 dt with the same authority and accuracy. Idunno what happened here! I built it for a three, had never cast anythingbut a 3 on it and was tickled to death that it did so well with a three.After I got back from Grayling, went fishing on the White, where I used a4dt Cortland line on it... cast just as well as it did with a 3, except thatI could get a bit more distance out of it, BUT it still doesn't feelunderlined with a 3, at least to me. OH, and it will roll cast the devilout of all three line wts.OK, I know that it would make a little sense for it to be good with a 4close in and a 3 for longer casts, but this rod casts good at all distanceswith all three lines. It loads "differently" with the three lines, but itstill casts them all equally well, which, by all my experience andknowledge, it should NOT!Is it the taper? Again, not "I dunno" (read the Okie accent into that).This is basically my 7' hex taper, converted to quad, but at the firststation below the ferrule, I changed the conversion factor all the way tothe butt, sloping down from .93 to .86. At first, I thought "this one isgoing to be junk... just too light in the butt", but it turned out not tobe. Matter of fact, when you get some line out, this thing really comesalive and developes more power than I imagined it could, again, with allthree lines.In the past, all of my rods have been pretty much line specific. Inother words, if they were built for a 4, then they cast a 4 and that was it.A line heavier overloaded the rod, a line lighter wouldn't load it properly.This rod is different. So, now I'm thinking maybe it was the conversionslope that I used... Nope! I used the same conversion slope for a 5'6" 4 wtquad and it will cast a 4 wt and nothing else. Well, it will cast otherlines, but a 3 doesn't load it properly and a 5 overloads it a bit.Okie Dokie... care to venture a guess on what happened with this rod?Keep in mind that my quad experience is limited to only 4 rods so far, otherthan building new tips for a broken up Edwards.Anyone that cast this rod at Grayling, chime in and give your opinion...I think Bob M. cast it quite a lot, and Bret R. also... I think it was Bretthat started trying different lines on it.In any case, the rod has me confused and pleased at the same time...first multiline bamboo rod I've ever built... just wish I knew WHY it cameout the way it did. Later,Bob All,I have rods that I can cast with a WF5, that someone that always doublehauls might want to cast with a WF4. But I haven't met any rods that canhandle three line weights using the same casting style. Have any of youhad other experiences?Here is some marketing gibberish put out by one custom FRP rod company.Can anyone make sense of this?"This is our way of providing the greatest versatility in rod design.All of our rods can comfortably cast three, varying line weights. Thisdoesn't change the intended use of each rod, it simply allows greaterindividual expression. Our taper and material formulas are unique. Wehave designed and engineered our rods with uniformly progressive power.This means: the more load applied to the tip of the rod, the moreprogressively it transfers through to the butt; the greater the load inthe butt of the rod, the greater the storage capacity reserved in thetip. This results in high casting performance for virtually all castingstyles. Our unique tapers actually adjust to the load weight of eachline and to the unique casting stroke of every angler. C__________ rodsare designed and compression rated to allow an increase or decrease inload capacity without energy loss. The benefit of the three line weightdesignation is staggering. The action of every rod can be enhanced tosuit the individual preference of the angler, and to meet his or herspecific technical requirements."--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 28 10:50:29 2001 f6SFoSZ27994 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:43:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods Bob, I suspect that more of your rods are that way than you might think, butyoujust haven't tried them enough with other lines. I know the 4 weight hex youhad at the Sowbug Roundup cast a 5 weight just fine, 'cause I tried it --remember? Every time I build a variation of the Sir D taper (never built the two-piece7' 4 wt. original) they fish equally well with more than one line. The 7.5' 3pc 4 weight will actually handle 3, 4, and 5 wieghts. The same is true of thePHY Smidgen's I've been building lately. I don't advertise them that waythough. Might backfire as a sales technique -- "This thing doesn't really castany particular line better than another." Perhaps your tapers are somewhat similar to Wayne's Sir D.... A ratherfastactioned rod that bends deeper and deeper as more line is worked, with asemi-parabolic kick in the butt section... Harry So, if you've got a few of your rods on hand, drag 'em out and try a fewlines on them. Bob Nunley wrote: I had a rod in Grayling that I wish you would have cast. It was a 7'quadrate. I think Olaf cast it (I've been asleep since then and can'tremember for sure) but in any case, we used 3 different lines on it, all DTsilks, 3, 4 and 5... it cast all equally well. --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 11:08:19 2001 f6SG8IZ28380 JAA06123; Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods Reed, After communicating with Walton Powell some years ago about rods andwhatthey should do, he implicitly said that a good rod will cast at least 3 andeven up to 6 different line weights. I found it hard to believe, but he wasright. The issue is only a couple of line weights will "feel" right to mostanglers. He told me how he would take a 5wt rod and use an 8wt line to it.He would take the first 30 feet of line and attach it to a running line andit would cast very easy. I put a 7wt line on a 7' 4wt rod and it couldcast15-20 feet of line with 10' leader just fine. Not my choice of line butit would do it. All rods can handle several line weights but not all anglers can. I believethe line weight ultimately is the choice of a specific angler and his rodworking in harmony, (that sounded pretty). But to claim to have designed therod to take several line weights is similar to saying "We at Ford design ourcars to travel at many speeds". All of us know vehicles at a certain MPHwill drive better and get better gas mileage. Well so do rods with certainlines. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Multi-weight rods "This is our way of providing the greatest versatility in rod design.All of our rods can comfortably cast three, varying line weights."--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 28 11:19:09 2001 f6SGJ9Z28738 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:20:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. When I looked for "The Angler's Workshop" on the used bookstores sites I =found it written by Perry D. Frazer with a publication date of 1908. On =the Ultimate Bamboo Fly Rod Library site it has it written by Letcher =Lambuth with a publication date of 1979. Its this the same book? =Thanks, Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:29 AMSubject: Re: Get a Spine! Letcher Lambuth's book isn't in my library, and at it's current =price in used bookstores I doubt it will be any time soon. Would you = There's quite a thorough discussion about this in Letcher Lambuth's =book " The Angler's Workshop. There you'll find his thinking as to why =it is true and how to "synchronize" (I love that term) a rod. When I looked for "The Angler's = Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX ----- Original Message ----- Harry= Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: Get a Spine! library, and at it's current price in used bookstores I doubt it will = There's = thorough discussion about this in Letcher Lambuth's book " The = Workshop. There you'll find his thinking as to why it is true and = "synchronize" (I love that term) a rod.--= from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jul 28 11:21:47 2001 f6SGLjZ28949 Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods I don't remember what line I cast that quad with but it was a damned nicerod. Tony At 10:30 AM 7/28/01 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote:OK Reed, Gonna stick my neck out here, and all you guys out there thatwant,hammer away on me, because what I'm about to say really shouldn't happen,atleast in my experience.I had a rod in Grayling that I wish you would have cast. It was a 7'quadrate. I think Olaf cast it (I've been asleep since then and can'tremember for sure) but in any case, we used 3 different lines on it, all DT /******snip snip snip ************************/ Okie Dokie... care to venture a guess on what happened with this rod?Keep in mind that my quad experience is limited to only 4 rods so far, otherthan building new tips for a broken up Edwards.Anyone that cast this rod at Grayling, chime in and give your opinion...I think Bob M. cast it quite a lot, and Bret R. also... I think it was Bretthat started trying different lines on it.In any case, the rod has me confused and pleased at the same time...first multiline bamboo rod I've ever built... just wish I knew WHY it cameout the way it did. Later,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from travisfolk@hotmail.com Sat Jul 28 11:25:40 2001 f6SGPeZ29202 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:25:35 -0700 HTTP; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:25:35 GMT FILETIME=[EE3204C0:01C11781] Thanks to everyone's response regarding book selection. I got a bunch of really helpful comparisons. I'm going to get several of them from the library and start reading. I'll be back in a couple of weeks probably with more questions to get started!! Thanks to everyone, Travis Hayes FolkGraduate Research AssistantSchool of Forestry and Wildlife SciencesAuburn University, Alabama 36849-5418 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 12:11:28 2001 f6SHBRZ00127 Subject: Re:Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. OK I'll field this one.This one is bound to be controversial.:))No, it is not customary to sign with the taper orwith the originators of the taper's name.:))Lets say I make a Dickerson Taper, I would not putthat on the rod. However it would be in my interest to tell people it is =a Dickerson taper. Now, If you make the rod, put your name on it.It is customary to add things like weight ,date, YOUR signature,serial = Now your other thought of " if a taper is considered yours" or the =original. Well, lets look at it from this perspective. I just compared a =Leonard taper to a modern makers taper(name left out of course) the =taper was almost identical except a few stations. And they were only a =few thousands difference.Now the modern maker calls this his taper. I'm not saying itis his, And I'm not saying it isn't. You have to decide.If I change a taper only by a few thousands, I would not call it mine. =That's just me. I'd say it was a modified taper. However I feel I =could(after all it is different) But what if I sit down one day and =create a taper, then someone comes to me and says "hey did you know your=taper is real close to so and so's taper". Then who's is it? So what I =do is make my rods ,attach my name, and give my rods a name(even if it =is a known taper). My thinking here isalot of tapers are similar, and in my opinion there is more to a makers =craftmanship than the taper. Sure we might make the same taper, but are =the two rods gonna be identical? So I think its OK to attach a model =name to your rod even if you use someone else's taper. I think maybe =that is flattery. But if your were to say write another makers name on =your rod? (wow look out!) I wouldn't do that.:))Even if you specified" =its only his taper". There is probably not enough room on the rod for =an explanation LOL:)) ha ha haDoes anyone do it different? Let Doug know. I think this is an important =thing to rodmakers for identification.(especially to the new guys to the =list)P.S. Doug this is just a suggestion, don't take it as a must do =thing.:))Tony Miller OK I'll field this one. controversial.:))No, it is not customary to sign with the= or Lets say I make a Dickerson Taper, I = putthat on the rod. However it would be in= it.It is customary to add things like = Now your other thought of " if a taper= considered yours" or the original. Well, lets look at it from this = I just compared a Leonard taper to a modern makers taper(name left out = course) the taper was almost identical except a few stations. And they = a few thousands difference.Now the modern maker calls this his = saying itis his, And I'm not saying it isn't. You = decide.If I change a taper only by a few = "hey did you know your taper is real close to so and so's taper". Then = it? So what I do is make my rods ,attach my name, and give my rods a = if it is a known taper). My thinking here isalot of tapers are similar, and in my = there is more to a makers craftmanship than the taper. Sure we might = attach a model name to your rod even if you use someone else's taper. I = maybe that is flattery. But if your were to say write another makers = your rod? (wow look out!) I wouldn't do that.:))Even if you specified" = explanation LOL:)) ha ha haDoes anyone do it different? Let Doug= think this is an important thing to rodmakers for = P.S. Doug this is just a suggestion, = as a must do thing.:))Tony Miller from oandc@msn.com Sat Jul 28 12:19:04 2001Received: from f6SHJ3Z00451 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:18:59 -0700 Subject: Binder Kit FILETIME=[63F47C90:01C11789] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello all,Sometime ago I seem to remember seeing a binder kit available on =someone's web site. It went for $100 something. Now, of course, I can't =relocate it. Any input?Thanks again,Wayne Hello all,Sometime ago I seem to rememberseeing = available on someone's web site. It went for $100 something. Now, of = can't relocate it. Any input?Thanks again,Wayne from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Jul 28 12:28:09 2001 f6SHS9Z01201 2001 10:28:10 PDT Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods "rod 'akers" walton was quite a proponent of "...a good fly rodwill cast 3 or more line weights...," and his rods doperform like that. in my experience tho, all tapersdon't perform likewise. i don't know that that makesthem lesser rods. there are not only different tapersbut different types of tapers. to avoid anymisunderstanding i will say i have alot of respect forthe powell men, all of them. timothy --- Adam Vigil wrote:Reed, After communicating with Walton Powell some yearsago about rods and whatthey should do, he implicitly said that a good rodwill cast at least 3 andeven up to 6 different line weights. I found it hardto believe, but he wasright. The issue is only a couple of line weightswill "feel" right to mostanglers. He told me how he would take a 5wt rod anduse an 8wt line to it.He would take the first 30 feet of line and attachit to a running line andit would cast very easy. I put a 7wt line on a 7'4wt rod and it couldcast15-20 feet of line with 10' leader just fine.Not my choice of line butit would do it. All rods can handle several line weights but not allanglers can. I believethe line weight ultimately is the choice of aspecific angler and his rodworking in harmony, (that sounded pretty). But toclaim to have designed therod to take several line weights is similar tosaying "We at Ford design ourcars to travel at many speeds". All of us knowvehicles at a certain MPHwill drive better and get better gas mileage. Wellso do rods with certainlines. Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Reed Curry Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 6:11 AMSubject: Multi-weight rods "This is our way of providing the greatestversatility in rod design.All of our rods can comfortably cast three,varying line weights."--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from harms1@pa.net Sat Jul 28 12:31:23 2001 f6SHVMZ01459 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! All, Any given culm may well have a spine, depending upon its own, peculiargrowing conditions. But, if one has taken all six strips taken from thesame culm, and if one has been precise in construction, the rod itselfshould have no detectable spine. In short, if you detecct a spine in a canerod, it is the fault of the builder. Something has gone wrong. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Get a Spine! Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a ChiropracticDoctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlikemodern materials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" or stifferplane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know whatother Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm have aspine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it so we coulduse those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil from oandc@msn.com Sat Jul 28 12:41:32 2001 f6SHfVZ01856 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:41:26 -0700 Subject: Plane FILETIME=[87035F50:01C1178C] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello again all,Some time ago I picked up a block plane at a garage sale for 3 or 4 =bucks. I stuck it it a drawer meaning to clean it up later and forgot =about it. I just dug it out and the only numbers I can find on the body =are C-255. Under that is X 3. The blade is Stanley No 220 (13-220A). = Thanks,Wayne Hello again all,Some time ago I picked up a block plane= sale for 3 or 4 bucks. I stuck it it a drawer meaning to clean it up = forgot about it. I just dug it out and the only numbers I can find on = are C-255. Under that is X 3. The blade is Stanley No 220 (13-220A). = someone tell me what I have. Thanks,Wayne from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jul 28 13:10:41 2001 f6SIAeZ02382 Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods Reed - The DeLespinay 8 foot taper that I built with the taped splice ferrule will handle lines 6-9. I would not say that it responds to the same casting style with each line, but the only thing that really changes is the line speed. If you can compensate for that, it feels more or less the same. That particular rod has a flat stress curve, which I think explains it's behavior. Bob's experience is typical of quads, IMHO. As always, a lot depends on taper, but quads always seem to have a wide range of power. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 28 13:20:13 2001 f6SIKCZ02803 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:13:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod signatures --------------160708987ED0CC2A7C39FABA Tony my friend, I've got to strenuously disagree with you here. Seemsto me that we are so deeply indebted to our rodmakingforefathers that to fail to acknowledge their work isunforgivable. I've made a bunch of Payne 101's,. Every oneof them says: Payne 101 Taper Harry Boyd7' 6" 5 weight Maker # 4xxxMade for John Doe I've done the same thing with Wayne C's Sir D tapers,and Leonard 50 DF's, and lots of others. I think that'sonly fair. On the other hand, when I have modified a taper,slightly or greatly, in an attempt to put my personal touchon it, I claim all responsibility, pro or con. Forinstance, when I took Dennis Higham's Mystery Rod fromGrayrock '96 and added some to the tips and converted it from a 2 piece to a 3 piece, I think it became my taper.Accordingly, I refer to it as my Otter Creek Special. Different strokes,Harry Tony Miller wrote: No, it is not customary to sign with the taper orwith theoriginators of the taper's name.:)) --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------160708987ED0CC2A7C39FABA Tony my friend, Seems to me that we are so deeply indebted to our rodmaking forefathers Payne 101 Harry Boyd7' 6" 5 Maker # 4xxx Made forJohn Doe tapers, slightly or greatly, in an attempt to put my personal touch on it, I claim Higham's Mystery Rod from Grayrock '96 and added some to the tips andconverted I refer to it as my Otter Creek Special. Tony Miller wrote:No, it is not customaryto sign with the taper orwith theoriginatorsof the taper's name.:)) --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------160708987ED0CC2A7C39FABA-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Jul 28 13:21:06 2001 f6SIL6Z02946 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:21:01 -0700 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:21:01 GMT Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods FILETIME=[0E777B60:01C11792] Sounds like the usual runaway advertising stuff. Most of my rods will handle three line weights, but that will depend on the casting style and application of the user. The speed of the taper will vary, I prefer slower, fuller working tapers and normally overline my rods one size. Current fashion dictates a faster rod and most are happy with the stated line size. I think that the older rod makers had it correct when they didn't state line weight(or diameter) and let the purchaser choose what line they thoughtbest filled their needs. This called for the makers to assume that the consumer was educated and knowlegable or had the services of same. But to claim that their is some 'magic bullet' in taper design is pure hype. All of my tapers were worked out long before classic tapers were traded like playing cards and I have been astounded how closely they match some of the classic tapers. This had lead to a working theory that perhaps in each style of taper there is a limited number of really good tapers for each length. In addition to this I think that a good taper is 'tolerant' of minor variations in the taper. With Dickerson, who was known for consistent rodperformance, to allow a .006" variation in rod diameter is an important indication as to how well his tapers would put up with,.. dare I say it...manufacturing tolerance? Leonards tolerances were perhapd too broad and that led to their reputation for a lack of consistency.A.J. From: Reed Curry Subject: Multi-weight rodsDate: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:11:26 -0400 All,I have rods that I can cast with a WF5, that someone that alwaysdoublehauls might want to cast with a WF4. But I haven't met any rods that canhandle three line weights using the same casting style. Have any of youhad other experiences?Here is some marketing gibberish put out by one custom FRP rodcompany.Can anyone make sense of this?"This is our way of providing the greatest versatility in rod design.All of our rods can comfortably cast three, varying line weights. Thisdoesn't change the intended use of each rod, it simply allows greaterindividual expression. Our taper and material formulas are unique. Wehave designed and engineered our rods with uniformly progressive power.This means: the more load applied to the tip of the rod, the moreprogressively it transfers through to the butt; the greater the load inthe butt of the rod, the greater the storage capacity reserved in thetip. This results in high casting performance for virtually all castingstyles. Our unique tapers actually adjust to the load weight of eachline and to the unique casting stroke of every angler. C__________ rodsare designed and compression rated to allow an increase or decrease inload capacity without energy loss. The benefit of the three line weightdesignation is staggering. The action of every rod can be enhanced tosuit the individual preference of the angler, and to meet his or herspecific technical requirements."--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 13:22:08 2001 f6SIM7Z03179 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. planes each strip to the same dimension than why would there be a spine =in the rod. But then I read Ray's input on it.And having his book, I noticed that on the back ,Ray has a Master's =degree in Mechanical Engineering. And he has been making rods a way lot =longer than myself. So I think highly of his advise. As a machinist I = give the same amount of resistance. So I was confused?Then it hit me. The reason Ray is Correct in his thinking is that bamboo =has power fibers. These fibers cannot be uniform through out the culm. =After all it is grown and not man made. Would a strip with less power =fibers flex the same as one with more?Even though the outside dimension was the same? I'll bet if you took =two strips from the same culm and made them dimensionally the same. Then=flexed them at the same exact points in a Coordinate Measuring =Machine(CMM). You would find that the curve would NOT be identical. It =might not be off by alot.Ray ,am I wrong here? Am I using the wrong hypothesis?Wouldn't that give a rod a spine ,even though the more close the =dimensions the less pronounce? But still there, none the less. My first thought on this was that if a = planes each strip to the samedimension = it. that = the same dimension give the same amount of resistance.So I = confused?Then it hit me. The reason Ray = his thinking is that bamboo has power fibers. These fibers cannot be = through out the culm. After all it is grown and not man made. Would a = less power fibers flex the same as one with more?Even though the outside dimension was= dimensionally the same. Then flexed them at the same exact = Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM). You would find that the curve would = = hypothesis?Wouldn't that give a rod a spine ,even = less. www.homestead.com/= from channer@frontier.net Sat Jul 28 13:39:37 2001 f6SIdbZ04069 Subject: Re: Rod signatures Doug;I don't consider it to be proper for me to blame another maker for myrod, if I am asked what the taper of a rod is, I say that such and sucha taper is what I started with. When you consider all the variablespossible, I think that each rod I make is uniquely my own, regardless ofwhere the taper came from. and who is to say that the numbers I use, nomatter where they came from, unless it is the very rare taper that came from the original masters own notes, are what the original makeractually used. But, and this is a big but, you do whatever makes youfeel right about it.John Douglas Losey wrote: Hi All, When signing a rod is it customary to include the name of the taperoriginator..for instance if I make a rod using a FE Thomas tapershould this be included on the signature? My thought is of course itshould be included, and this leads to another question.....if indesigning a rod ....the maker chooses a particular taper from notes orarchives, let's say a Garrison taper and wanting a slightly differentaction to the rod..."tweaks" this taper a couple of thousandths inplaces to achieve the desired action...whose taper is it....a modifiedGarrison...or a taper developed by the maker...? thanks,losey from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 13:55:10 2001 f6SItAZ04737 Subject: Re:Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I do the same as you for the most part.:))My Firehole model is Wayne's Sir "D"I didn't realize that other makers put the name of tapers on there rods. =I stand corrected. I think what I was trying to inpart was that I =wouldn't want someone to put my name on their rod unless it was clearly =stated that it was my design.I think that the example you showed Does explain this.And I think that most would probably find that exceptable.:))I think that what would not be exceptable by most is: if lets say , you =ONLY wrote Payne 101 on the rod for example.I think that would give a false conclusion. But If your name was = One thought further on this. Lets say a hobbyist puts a name like Payne = But lets say a rodmaker who is in business puts this on say several 100 =rods. Is there any name infringements there?I mean if I owned the Payne company and you were selling rods with my =companies name on them, and then lets say you started out selling my =rods which are originals. You see what I mean? wouldn't that company =have some legal recourse.I could be wrong ,I'm not a lawyer. Let me know what you think. This is =interesting to me. Harry part.:))My Firehole model is Wayne's Sir ="D"I didn't realize that other makers put = inpart was that I wouldn't want someone to put my name on their rod = was clearly stated that it was my design.I think that the example you showedDoes = this. that exceptable.:))I think that what would not be = example.I think that would give a false = One thought further on this. Lets say a= But lets say a rodmaker who is in = there? company = were selling rods with my companies name on them, and then lets say you = out selling my rods which are originals. You see what I mean? wouldn't = company have some legal recourse.I could be wrong ,I'm not a lawyer. Let = what you think. This is interesting to me. from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 14:10:56 2001 f6SJAtZ05344 Subject: Re:Rod signatures/one more thought This is a multi-part message in MIME format. One other thought.And no offense is intended:)) So don't take it that way:))but lets all be honest here. Yes we all say lets honor the old =makers,but Rods sell alot better with names like Payne ,Dickerson and =Leonard on them.Try an experiment:Make two rods(identical in every way) : list them both on ebay, Don't =write any thing about the maker in the description.just describe the rod. Then put the other rod on(describe it the same =way) but add that it was made with a Top name makers taper. Now you know=what the results are gonna be.:)) you don't even have to do the = Tony Miller One otherthought.And no offense is intended:)) So don't= that way:))but lets all be honest here. Yes we all = honor the old makers,but Rods sell alot better with names like Payne = and Leonard on them.Try an experiment:Make two rods(identical in every = description. the = Tony Miller from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sat Jul 28 14:29:44 2001 f6SJThZ06107 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:51:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Tony, the dimension of the material plays one part in the composition of =the strip. As it has been noted today on the board the bamboo culm is =not the same around the entire axis. A number of things come to mind, =wind direction during the growth stage, direction of the sun, drying =conditions, etc. However the wind direction is one that as a civil =engineer I feel comfortable talking about. When the culm blows in the =wind it will stretch on one side and compress on the other. The plant I =assume tries to compensate for this and will grow differently on both =sides. Also, since the bamboo grows so fast different wind directions =each day could change the growth structure on the axis daily. I would =like to note that I'm just starting out in bamboo rod building and I'm =not a botanist, these are just thoughts from a engineering mind that =knows building with natural materials requires a little more thought =processes than using a material that must meet some sort of =specification. Darrin L. Curtis, PhD, PESan Antonio TX Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:11 PMSubject: Re: Get a Spine! planes each strip to the same dimension than why would there be a =spine in the rod. But then I read Ray's input on it.And having his book, I noticed that on the back ,Ray has a Master's =degree in Mechanical Engineering. And he has been making rods a way lot =longer than myself. So I think highly of his advise. As a machinist I = give the same amount of resistance. So I was confused?Then it hit me. The reason Ray is Correct in his thinking is that =bamboo has power fibers. These fibers cannot be uniform through out the =culm. After all it is grown and not man made. Would a strip with less =power fibers flex the same as one with more?Even though the outside dimension was the same? I'll bet if you took =two strips from the same culm and made them dimensionally the same. Then=flexed them at the same exact points in a Coordinate Measuring =Machine(CMM). You would find that the curve would NOT be identical. It =might not be off by alot.Ray ,am I wrong here? Am I using the wrong hypothesis?Wouldn't that give a rod a spine ,even though the more close the =dimensions the less pronounce? But still there, none the less. Tony, the dimension of the material = come to mind, wind direction during the growth stage, direction of the = tries to compensate for this and will grow differently on both = Also, since the bamboo grows so fast different wind directions each day = I'm just starting out in bamboo rod building and I'm not a botanist, = just thoughts from a engineering mind that knows building = materials requires a little more thought processes than using a material = must meet some sort of specification. Darrin L. Curtis, PhD,PESan Antonio TX ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 = PMSubject: Re: Get a Spine! My first thought on this was that if a= planes each strip to the same = it. materials of the same dimension give the same amount of resistance.So = confused?Then it hit me. The reason Ray = in his thinking is that bamboo has power fibers. These fibers cannot = uniform through out the culm. After all it is grown and not man made. = strip with less power fibers flex the same as one with =more?Even though the outside dimensionwas = dimensionally the same. Then flexed them at the same exact = Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM). You would find that the curve would = using = hypothesis?Wouldn't that give a rod a spine ,even= the more close the dimensions the less pronounce? But still there, = less. www.homestead.com/= from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 14:36:42 2001 f6SJagZ06563 Subject: Re:Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Maybe I should say this:I recently sold a rod on ebay.Half way through the auction the rod was not the originator of the taper had cast the rod at a recent gathering. All =of the sudden I start getting all these emails asking about the rod and =the bids go up and I sell the rod.It was all true, I didn't lie. But if you asking me if I sold out.Heck yes I did, every day. I'm in business to sell rods.And if the customer thinks in his mind that some one special touched the =rod. Heck I'll invite that person to touch all my rods before I sell =them. It doesn't change the fact that the customer is satisfied. And if =it is true than there is NO intent to deceive. And if it makes the =customer happy, whats wrong with that. We all sort of play off makers =that we follow. The guys that are hot now played off the older maker and =the newer makers today will play off their success. It's only =natural.:))Its a funny world we live in.Tony Miller Maybe I should say =this:I recently sold a rod on =ebay.Half way through the auction the rodwas = notdoing so hot, so half way through the = added that the originator of the taper had castthe = rod.It was all true, I didn't lie. But if = Heck yes I did, every day. I'm in = rods.And if the customer thinks in his mind= one special touched the rod. Heck I'll invite that person to touch all = before I sell them. It doesn't change the fact that the customer is = the customer happy, whats wrong with that. We all sort of play off = we follow. The guys that are hot now played off the older maker and the = makers today will play off their success. It's only =natural.:))Its a funny world we live =in.Tony Miller from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 14:39:06 2001 f6SJd5Z06830 Subject: Re:Get a Spine! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. DarrinI think your right, It would seem to make a difference.Tony Miller DarrinI think your right, It would seem to = difference.TonyMiller from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sat Jul 28 14:42:05 2001 f6SJfpZ07117 Subject: Re:Rod signatures/one more thought This is a multi-part message in MIME format. If I may add my 2 cents worth. I have my own model names for rods that I make, but in my literature I saywhat tapers they are based on(I tweak them a bit, as I'm sure most makersdo). It isn't so much to help them sell(maybe it does, but I'm not sure thatis true in my situation since I own a fly shop that people walk in to), butto help describe the "character" of a rod since many bamboo buyers arefamiliar with the classic makers and the differences in their actions. So prospective buyer will already have an idea of the character of the rod. Isthis making sense? John K.-----Original Message-----From: Tony Miller Date: Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:11 PMSubject: Re:Rod signatures/one more thought One other thought.And no offense is intended:)) So don't take it that way:))but lets all be honest here. Yes we all say lets honor the oldmakers,but Rods sell alot better with names like Payne ,Dickerson andLeonard on them.Try an experiment:Make two rods(identical in every way) : list them both on ebay, Don'twrite any thing about the maker in the description.just describe the rod. Then put the other rod on(describe it the sameway) but add that it was made with a Top name makers taper. Now you knowwhat the results are gonna be.:)) you don't even have to do the experimentto know what will happen.LOL:))Tony Miller If I may add my 2 cents =worth. I have my own model names for rods that I make, but= literature I say what tapers they are based on(I tweak them a bit, as = most makers do). It isn't so much to help them sell(maybe it does, but = sure that is true in my situation since I own a fly shop that people = to), but to help describe the "character" of a rod since many = buyers are familiar with the classic makers and the differences in their = Garrison, they prospective buyer will already have an idea of the = John K. -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:11 PMSubject: Re:Rod = more thoughtOne other =thought.And no offense is intended:)) So = that way:))but lets all be honest here. Yes we = lets honor the old makers,but Rods sell alot better with names like = ,Dickerson and Leonard on them.Try an experiment:Make two rods(identical in every = description. put = Tony Miller from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 15:03:43 2001 f6SK3gZ07966 Subject: RE: one more thought This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Yes It makes alot of sense.People will buy what they are familiar with.So it is to the advantage of the seller to state it.Bamboo rods cost so much these days people are very cautious.What's that Latin term something like buyer beware?And when your shelling out the bucks you become real name conscious. =Buyers want to know they have made an investment.No one likes to think that there new car will depreciate.Think of it this way. Ford doesn't say buy are new Explorer were the =proud makers of the Pinto LOL:))But I think the average buyer has no = more likely he is going of what he believes to be true.Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? Do you like their food?Do you think you can get a better burger down the street?You probably can, and at a better price or at least comparable.But I'll bet you still pull in to the big M. Why? the name!It's McDonalds you see it every where. Your not willing to shop around =when you are familiar with what old Ronald McDonaldwill sell you.:))LOLTony Miller Yes It makes alot ofsense.People will buy what they are with.So it is to the advantage of the seller = it.Bamboo rods cost so much these days= very cautious.What's that Latin term something like= beware?And when your shelling out the bucksyou = investment.No one likes to think that there newcar = depreciate.Think of it this way. Ford doesn't say = Explorer were the proud makers of the Pinto LOL:))But I think the = more likely he is going of what he = true.Have you ever eaten at McDonalds? Doyou = their food?Do you think you can get a betterburger = street?You probably can, and at a better price= least comparable. Why? the name! = you are familiar with what old Ronald McDonaldwill sell you.:))LOLTonyMiller from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 15:08:10 2001 f6SK89Z08322 Subject: McMiller's This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Suddenly I'm in tears laughing ,thinking of my selftrying to sell a rod in a clown suit!:)) LOL Suddenly I'm in tears laughing ,thinking= selftrying to sell a rod in a clown suit!:)) = LOL from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 15:27:02 2001 f6SKR1Z09219 Subject: Re: Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I totally agree with you Harry.:))I always let the customer know what the taper is based on.whether it is mine or someone else. It is the honest thing to do.Although I don't write it on the shaft , they always are told and even =written if requested. I always give credit were credit is due.Your =advise is very sound.:)) And Appreciated:))Tony Miller I totally agree with you =Harry.:))I always let the customer know whatthe = based on.whether it is mine or someone else. It = honest thing to do. always are told and even written if requested. I always give credit were = is due.Your advise is very sound.:)) And Appreciated:))TonyMiller from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jul 28 15:29:23 2001 f6SKTMZ09465 f6SKTMZ05548 Subject: Re: Rod signatures Tony,Considering I am fairly new at this I don't haveany tapers that I can say are mine. I might haveand don't know it. By that I mean if I startedmaking a name taper and inadvertently screwed upthe taper but still cast good it would be mytaper.I sign my rods "Spezio Sir D" 7' 4 wt. or "SpezioGranger 7' 4 wt". To me this implies that it is aSpezio made Sir D or Granger taper.We have the same thing in Flytying. When is aRoyal Coachman not a Royal Coachman anymore. If Iwere to make a minor change and wanted my name onit I would not say it was a Spezio fly, I wouldcall it the Spezio Royal Coachman.That is my way of thinking, if it is not ethicallet me know.Tony Miller wrote: HarryI do the same as you for the mostpart.:))My Firehole model is Wayne's Sir "D"Ididn't realize that other makers put the name oftapers on there rods. I stand corrected. I thinkwhat I was trying to inpart was that I wouldn'twant someone to put my name on their rod unlessit was clearly stated that it was my design.Ithink that the example you showed Does explainthis.And I think that most would probably findthat exceptable.:))I think that what would notbe exceptable by most is: if lets say , you ONLYwrote Payne 101 on the rod for example.I thinkthat would give a false conclusion. But If yourname was included as maker that would seemOK.One thought further on this. Lets say ahobbyist puts a name like Payne on a few rodsnot much harm done.But lets say a rodmaker whois in business puts this on say several 100rods. Is there any name infringements there?Imean if I owned the Payne company and you wereselling rods with my companies name on them, andthen lets say you started out selling my rodswhich are originals. You see what I mean?wouldn't that company have some legal recourse.Icould be wrong ,I'm not a lawyer. Let me knowwhat you think. This is interesting to me.TonyMiller from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sat Jul 28 15:29:23 2001 f6SKTMZ09468 Subject: Re: McMiller's This is a multi-part message in MIME format. On that note- One of my customers told me a story recently. He has a brother who is an artist and does all sorts of stuff includingdrawings for advertising. Anyway, he had been contracted by a localMcDonald's to do some sort of poster or something and the franchise ownerdescribed how he would like it done and then asked him: "Could you pleasetry to not make Ronald McDonald look like a buffoon?"-----Original Message-----From: Tony Miller Date: Saturday, July 28, 2001 4:08 PMSubject: McMiller's Suddenly I'm in tears laughing ,thinking of my selftrying to sell a rod in a clown suit!:)) LOL On that note- One of my customers told me a story =recently. He has a brother who is an artist and does all sorts = local McDonald's to do some sort of poster or something and the = described how he would like it done and then asked him: "Could you = try to not make Ronald McDonald look like a buffoon?" -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= McMiller'sSuddenly I'm in tears laughing = selftrying to sell a rod in a clown = LOL from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 15:34:42 2001 f6SKYfZ10078 Subject: Re:McMillers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. That's the funniest thing I've heard all week:))Tony Miller That's the funniest thing I've heard all= week:))TonyMiller from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 15:40:27 2001 f6SKeQZ10486 Subject: Re: Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. TonyI hold no council on what is ethical and what is not:))And I think the way you do it is fine. It is Certainly honest,if your asking my opinion. Far be it for me to tell anyone what the can =and can't write on their own rods. The choice has to be totally yours. =I'm just pondering things :)) Tony Miller TonyI hold no council on what is ethical = is not:)) if your asking my opinion. Far be it for= tell anyone what the can and can't write on their own rods. The choice = totally yours. I'm just pondering things :))Best regards Tony Miller from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Jul 28 16:56:58 2001 f6SLuvZ12867 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! As a botanist I can tell you that your latter conclusions are likely to be moreaccurate, i.e. daily winds, gusty winds, shaded vs. sunny exposure all willhave a slight effect on plant growth--even more so at the high rate thatbamboogrows, reportedly several inches a day under certain conditions.Jerry Snider At 01:44 PM 07/28/2001 -0500, Darrin Curtis wrote: Tony, the dimension of the material plays one part in the composition ofthestrip. As it has been noted today on the board the bamboo culm is not thesame around the entire axis. A number of things come to mind, winddirectionduring the growth stage, direction of the sun, drying conditions, etc. However the wind direction is one that as a civil engineer I feel comfortabletalking about. When the culm blows in the wind it will stretch on one sideand compress on the other. The plant I assume tries to compensate forthisand will grow differently on both sides. Also, since the bamboo grows sofast different wind directions each day could change the growth structureonthe axis daily. I would like to note that I'm just starting out in bamboorod building and I'm not a botanist, these are just thoughts from aengineering mind that knows building with natural materials requires a littlemore thought processes than using a material that must meet some sortofspecification. Darrin L. Curtis, PhD, PESan Antonio TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Miller Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:11 PM Subject: Re: Get a Spine! My first thought on this was that if a person planes each strip to the same dimension than why would there be a spineinthe rod. But then I read Ray's input on it. And having his book, I noticed that on the back ,Ray has a Master's degreein Mechanical Engineering. And he has been making rods a way lot longerthanmyself. So I think highly of his advise. As a machinist I thought to myselfwouldn't materials of the same dimension give the same amount of resistance. So I was confused? Then it hit me. The reason Ray is Correct in his thinking is that bamboohaspower fibers. These fibers cannot be uniform through out the culm. Afterallit is grown and not man made. Would a strip with less power fibers flexthesame as one with more? Even though the outside dimension was the same? I'll bet if you took twostrips from the same culm and made them dimensionally the same. Thenflexedthem at the same exact points in a Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM).Youwould find that the curve would NOT be identical. It might not be off byalot. Ray ,am I wrong here? Am I using the wrong hypothesis? Wouldn't that give a rod a spine ,even though the more close thedimensionsthe less pronounce? But still there, none the less. Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 28 18:43:24 2001 f6SNhNZ15932 Subject: Walton Powell --------------46A41FF9FE23D616F948E8B6 I thought that you might enjoy reading a newspaper article in the IslandPark News about Walton Powell. http://www.islandparknews.com/ . Itunder top news stories, Rocky Mountain Expressions. An interesting sidelight. I worked on the movie too, and I can tell youthat the rods that Walton copied were Montagues. I had a chance to fishone of the movies Hexagraph rods. Sorry, dear friend Walton, I hatedit. It was akin to casting a 2x4. Also to however inquired aboutGeorge Grant. He is currently in a nursing home in Butte. Not longbefore he went there he tied up a quantity of one of his flies and intune with his wishes, it was sold a $5.00 each. Certainly a rare chanceto pick up one of the rarest of flies. George is no longer tying, andis quite feeble, but still going. If anyone needs more information,e-mail me direct and I will try to get a contact for you. Ralph don't expect miracles, I am going to FFF Conclave next week and may notget back to you for a week or two --------------46A41FF9FE23D616F948E8B6 I thought that you might enjoy reading a newspaper article in the Island of one of his flies and in tune with his wishes, it was sold a $5.00 needs more information, e-mail me direct and I will try to get a contact don't expect miracles, I am going to FFF Conclave next week and maynot get back to you for a week or two --------------46A41FF9FE23D616F948E8B6-- from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jul 28 19:07:24 2001 f6T07NZ17311 Subject: A river runs through it. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm sitting here holding a brochure from Kane Klassics.And it says that he(Doug Kulick) restored the rods for the movie.Does anyone know how many people restored rods for the movie?Does anyone know how many were done? in the brochure it says his were =Grangers.It was a very interesting article, I'm just wondering.I have the making of the movie on DVD and It doesn't refer to the rods =that were used. I was kind of hoping it would have .Tony Miller I'm sitting here holding a brochure from= Klassics.And it says that he(Doug = rods for the movie.Does anyone know how many people = Does anyone know how many weredone? in = brochure it says his were Grangers.It was a very interesting article, I'm = wondering.I have the making of the movie on DVD= doesn't refer to the rods that were used. I was kind of hoping it would = .Tony Miller from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 19:18:18 2001 f6T0IHZ17849 RAA26619; Subject: Re: Binder Kit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Wayne, Try to make it for alot less. Hardware store will have most of what you =need. Use cloths line pully, sliding glass door wheels, and some =ingenuity. My binder is homely but works great. Oh yea! Dont forget the =rubber band around the main pulley. Just glue up a butt section and it =was a slippery ride. Adam Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:20 AMSubject: Binder Kit Hello all,Sometime ago I seem to remember seeing a binder kit available on =someone's web site. It went for $100 something. Now, of course, I can't =relocate it. Any input?Thanks again,Wayne Wayne, Try to make it for alot less. Hardware = have most of what you need. Use cloths line pully, sliding glass door = and some ingenuity. My binder is homely but works great. Oh yea! Dont = rubber band around the main pulley. Just glue up a butt section and it = slippery ride. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- oandc = Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 = AMSubject: Binder Kit Hello all,Sometime ago I seem to remember = kit available on someone's web site. It went for $100 something. Now, = course, I can't relocate it. Any input?Thanks again,Wayne from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 19:20:43 2001 f6T0KgZ18153 RAA03918; Subject: Re: Get a Spine! Bill, What is it that would cause a spine, if all splines are equal and no gluelines are evident? Just wondering. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Get a Spine! All, Any given culm may well have a spine, depending upon its own, peculiargrowing conditions. But, if one has taken all six strips taken from thesame culm, and if one has been precise in construction, the rod itselfshould have no detectable spine. In short, if you detecct a spine in acanerod, it is the fault of the builder. Something has gone wrong. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:31 PMSubject: Get a Spine! Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a ChiropracticDoctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlikemodern materials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" orstifferplane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to knowwhatother Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm haveaspine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it so wecoulduse those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 19:36:13 2001 f6T0aCZ18885 RAA21943; Subject: Re:Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Tony, Good point. You can not make a pair of paints and put LEVI on them, nor =can an after market part for a car have Chevy or Ford stamped on it. I =think it is respectful to give credit to the classics but some times =families and love ones my not appreciate it. Maybe some well known makers can put in their 2 cents. Ralph Moon do you =want makers coping your tapers and putting your name on it along with =their own? How about you Bob Nunley? A.J. how about it? Later, Adam Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 11:44 AMSubject: Re:Rod signatures I do the same as you for the most part.:))My Firehole model is Wayne's Sir "D" Tony, Good point. You can not make a pair of= put LEVI on them, nor can an after market part for a car have Chevy or = stamped on it. I think it is respectful to give credit to the classics = times families and love ones my not appreciate it. Maybe some well known makers can putin = cents. Ralph Moon do you want makers coping your tapers and putting your = it? Later, Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 = AMSubject: Re:Rod =signatures Harry most = part.:)) "D" from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sat Jul 28 19:38:43 2001 f6T0cgZ19136 2001 09:38:31 +0900 (JST) 09:38:30 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan Hello Ian and all, Ian, Your insight is right, I guess.There is a traditional method of filing the inside of round culm in makingJapanese style round cane rod (not for fly rod).A large round file may be used to clean out the diaphram of the culm afterthe culm itself is straightened. Problem is to straighten the culm itself.It's a timeconsuming efforts. Why don't you make a Hexagonal Hollow Rod as a case from a culm?Six bladed cane splitter will easily afford six strips from a culm.You can straighten the one sixTH strip rather easily. The other steps isquite equal to rod making process, though the section is a little fat. Max Hardy used to make rod cases the same way. They look very nice but are alotharder to make then it seems at first impression. ( well, they are for me) The section of cane needs to be absolutely straight. This usually meansheating up the cane section and straightening it. I tried the techniquesillustrated in Luis Marden's book and still had trouble getting themabsolutely straight and they need to be absolutely straight. I suspect thereason many of them are flamed is that they have scorch marks fromstraightening. It is also quite a challenge getting the node dam walls out of theinteriorof the cane. the interior needs to be absolutely flat and that is hard toachieve when trying to flatten a dam which is 2 feet away down thesectionof bamboo. I have no doubt it would be possible to make up a tool fordoingthis but without such a tool it is hard work. Incidentally I found that Tonkin cane was not the best for these cases asitis heavy , hard to work on , and tends to split. Some of the other lesserwall thickness bamboos are easier to use. Ian ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:42 PMSubject: Rods made in Japan I don't know if any of you guys have seen the site, Hexastyle, butThese are rods made in Japan. They don't look too bad, but check out therodcases. They are made from Tonkin Cane culms.They're rods aren't cheap $1500.00 Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jul 28 19:50:49 2001 f6T0omZ19773 RAA07582 Subject: Spine experiment This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, Since I started this thread let me stick my nose in and tell you what I = We can agree culms have a spine, some rods have a spine, some do not. If =the craftsmanship is done well why is there still a spine? Could it be =that being we take 24 or so strips from a culm we are not careful in =choosing strips that are in proximity of each other? In making a butt 6 =strips are used. Well if a whole culm is split there are 12 strips from =each side. Do we pay attention when we choose strips to assemble a =section or are we possibly grabbing 3 strip from one side and 3 from the =other side of the culm? If each half of the culm is marked on the butts and we insure that the =strips which make up a section are from the same side of the culm could =we possibly decrease the possibility of a spine? Just a thought, Adam Vigil Hi all, Since I started this thread let me = and tell you what I think my be possible. We can agree culms have a spine, some= spine, some do not. If the craftsmanship is done well why is there still = not careful in choosing strips that are in proximity of each other? In = butt 6 strips are used. Well if a whole culm is split there are 12 = each side. Do we pay attention when we choose strips to assemble a = are we possibly grabbing 3 strip from one side and 3 from the other side = culm? If each half of the culm is marked on = we insure that the strips which make up a section are from the same side = culm could we possibly decrease the possibility of a spine? Just a thought, AdamVigil from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Jul 28 20:22:21 2001 f6T1MKZ20658 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:15:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Spine experiment --------------9F12DB01FA8A82BF3DC55F95 Hi Adam,I am extremely careful to make sure that each strip inthe rod is lined up next to its neighbor from splitting.That doesn't make sense. I number the strips as I splitthem, for example 1-24. I use 1-6, 7-12, 13-18, and so onto make each rod section. Bad news is, I still have something of a spine moreoften than I like!! Harry Adam Vigil wrote: Hi all, Since I started this thread let me stick my nosein and tell you what I think my be possible. We can agreeculms have a spine, some rods have a spine, some do not.If the craftsmanship is done well why is there still aspine? Could it be that being we take 24 or so strips from a culm we are not careful in choosing strips that arein proximity of each other? In making a butt 6 strips areused. Well if a whole culm is split there are 12 strips from each side. Do we pay attention when we choose stripsto assemble a section or are we possibly grabbing 3 strip from one side and 3 from the other side of the culm? Ifeach half of the culm is marked on the butts and we insurethat the strips which make up a section are from the sameside of the culm could we possibly decrease thepossibility of a spine? Just a thought, Adam Vigil --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------9F12DB01FA8A82BF3DC55F95 Hi Adam, strip often than I like!! Adam Vigil wrote: Hi this thread let me stick my nose in and tell you what I think my be can agree culms have a spine, some rods have a spine, some do not. If the that being we take 24 or so strips from a culm we are not careful inchoosingstrips that are in proximity of each other? In making a butt 6 strips areused. Well if a whole culm is split there are 12 strips from each side.Do we pay attention when we choose strips to assemble a section or arewe possibly grabbing 3 strip from one side and 3 from the other side of halfof the culm is marked on the butts and we insure that the strips whichmake up a section are from the same side of the culm could we possibly Vigil --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------9F12DB01FA8A82BF3DC55F95-- from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sat Jul 28 20:58:51 2001 f6T1woZ21880 2001 10:58:49 +0900 (JST) 10:58:48 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Get a Spine! Hi, As a race who eat bamboo shoots, let me say something. In selecting splitted strips, it is said in our society that sunny side andback (opposite) side strips are the best. In general, a plant has a tendency to face their leaves toward sun beam.So, a bamboo cane also has a tendency, in general, to lean over sunny side alittle.As a bamboo cane does not have branches and leaves at a lower position,this leaning would happen at rather higher position. But the weight ofbranches would affect to the lower part of the culm actually (moment!).So, sunny side and the opposite (back) side would tend to have straightpower fibers. And sunny side would have a tendency to have stronger (wellgrown) fibers by sun beam.Thus natural culm would have a spine (in not equater countries). Have you seen that node is trying to be flat to the surface of the earth?Such a bamboo cane standing on the slope and those who fail to standstraight, mostly have node lines (around the cane) which are not 90 degreesagainst culm's side line. When we cut a bamboo shoot into two for coocking, it is amazing that allthe nodes of the cane are already compacted there. It just grows veryrapidly, in a couple of days, to reach to the height of an adult bamboo(it's like an antena of car radio). Culm diameter is already decided at theshoot age. It will not increase its diameter after it grows. Max Tony, the dimension of the material plays one part in the composition of thestrip. As it has been noted today on the board the bamboo culm is not thesame around the entire axis. A number of things come to mind, winddirection during the growth stage, direction of the sun, drying conditions,etc. However the wind direction is one that as a civil engineer I feelcomfortable talking about. When the culm blows in the wind it will stretchon one side and compress on the other. The plant I assume tries tocompensate for this and will grow differently on both sides. Also, sincethe bamboo grows so fast different wind directions each day could changethegrowth structure on the axis daily. I would like to note that I'm juststarting out in bamboo rod building and I'm not a botanist, these are justthoughts from a engineering mind that knows building with natural materialsrequires a little more thought processes than using a material that mustmeet some sort of specification. Darrin L. Curtis, PhD, PESan Antonio TX----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:11 PMSubject: Re: Get a Spine! My first thought on this was that if a personplanes each strip to the same dimension than why would there be a spine inthe rod. But then I read Ray's input on it.And having his book, I noticed that on the back ,Ray has a Master's degreein Mechanical Engineering. And he has been making rods a way lot longer thanmyself. So I think highly of his advise. As a machinist I thought to myselfwouldn't materials of the same dimensiongive the same amount of resistance. So I was confused?Then it hit me. The reason Ray is Correct in his thinking is that bamboohas power fibers. These fibers cannot be uniform through out the culm.Afterall it is grown and not man made. Would a strip with less power fibers flexthe same as one with more?Even though the outside dimension was the same? I'll bet if you took twostrips from the same culm and made them dimensionally the same. Thenflexedthem at the same exact points in a Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM). Youwould find that the curve would NOT be identical. It might not be off byalot.Ray ,am I wrong here? Am I using the wrong hypothesis?Wouldn't that give a rod a spine ,even though the more close thedimensions the less pronounce? But still there, none the less.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 28 21:09:47 2001 f6T29kZ22375 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! --------------3D6308E4CA6907CB9279F213 Harry You are asking quite a lot from Ray to give you a sentence or twosummary of Lambuth's tuning technique. As I recall it takes about halfof the book. Very crudely, He had a number of tests that he used tomeasure vibrational rhythm, flexibility, sinus node location, stiffness,and ,yes I think, even spine location. Each rod was tested with thevarious sections rotated so that there were some two hundredpossibilities. Actually, it was rarely necessary to perform that manytests, since some results werre obvious. The technique was rathercomplex, but I believe that it had high value in making a rod performbest. Rather than just depending on spine placement he brought in toplay a lot of other factors. I really think that this preoccupation with the spine is not asimportant as everyone seems to think it is. Despite the statements thata correctly made rod will have no spine, I think that we have torecognize that we live in an imperfect world and are ourselves somewhatshort of perfection. Therefor, I suspect that all bamboo rods will havea spine, albeit some may be so faint as to be virtually indetectable.Be that as it may, we should remember that to use only one frame ofreference to evaluate our work, is really being rather shortsighted. Ralph --------------3D6308E4CA6907CB9279F213 HarryYou are asking quite a lot from Ray to give you a sentence or twosummary measure vibrational rhythm, flexibility, sinus node location, stiffness, various sections rotated so that there were some two hundred Actually, it was rarely necessary to perform that many tests, since some just depending on spine placement he brought in to play a lot of otherfactors.I really think that this preoccupation with the spine is not as important correctlymade rod will have no spine, I think that we have to recognize that welive in an imperfect world and are ourselves somewhat short of Therefor, I suspect that all bamboo rods will have a spine, albeit some we should remember that to use only one frame of reference to evaluateour work, is really being rather shortsighted.Ralph --------------3D6308E4CA6907CB9279F213-- from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jul 28 21:19:42 2001 f6T2JfZ22865 Subject: Re: Rod signatures Adam,I don't view this with the same reservations that you and others might.There are a lot of rods out there that are my tapers and do not bear myname. This does not bother me a great deal, because in almost everyinstance I have given my taper to the builder. Most of them doacknowledge my input, but I don't recall seeing it on the rod. I dothink that it is reprehensible for any artisan to blatantly copyanother's work with out giving due credit. That is any one of you whomakes a PHY rod and labels it as such would be on my s--t list.Acknowledging it as a copy removes the opprobrium. Still though ,anyrod Joe Blow makes is a Joe Blow rod. If he is a gentleman he willindicate his dependence on others. If not well...................... Ralph from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jul 28 21:34:53 2001 f6T2YrZ23535 Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods Bob,Yes, I remember this rod well. Like you said it took all three lines and really cast them all with equal ease and authority. Guys I was really impressed with this rod and it was really the first rod I ever cast that I could honestly say all three lines worked well and it made no difference at what distance you were casting. This rod is one that I tried to sneak away with but old Bob kept a close eye on it and the guys who were casting it. OH well maybe next time I can get him drunk before he brings it out. LOL.Bret Bob, and really impressed with this rod and it was really the first rod I ever cast that I could honestly say all three lines worked well and it made no differenceat sneak away with but old Bob kept a close eye on it and the guys who were casting it. well maybe next time I can get him drunk before he brings it out. LOL.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jul 28 21:41:28 2001 f6T2fRZ23964 Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods this is true you should be able to go up or down one line weight but you will feel the difference. To me this rod felt the same with all three lines, and I really did not have to work hard with the 3 weight as opposed to the 5 wght line that was on it. Now I will admit that the five when I really started to punch out a line cast deeper into the handle. I also had my 5' one piece there and Olaf and I put on 3 different line sizes and you could tell the difference between them because the 4 wght bent it deeper into the handle where the 2 wght was more tip casting but all 3 lines were handled on therod.Bret this is true you should be able to go up or down one line weight butyou will lines, and I really did not have to work hard with the 3 weight as opposed to the 5wght started to piece there and Olaf and I put on 3 different line sizes and you could tell the difference between them because the 4 wght bent it deeper into thehandle where the 2 wght was more tip casting but all 3 lines were handled onthe rod.Bret from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Jul 28 21:53:35 2001 f6T2rYZ24632 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! Hi, Just a naive question. Can a rod get spine from log term casting? I donot mean a "set" but a spine. -Doug At 08:09 PM 7/28/01 -0600, Ralph Moon wrote: Harry You are asking quite a lot from Ray to give you a sentence or two summaryof Lambuth's tuning technique. As I recall it takes about half of thebook. Very crudely, He had a number of tests that he used to measurevibrational rhythm, flexibility, sinus node location, stiffness, and ,yesI think, even spine location. Each rod was tested with the varioussections rotated so that there were some two hundred possibilities. Actually, it was rarely necessary to perform that many tests, since someresults werre obvious. The technique was rather complex, but I believethat it had high value in making a rod perform best. Rather than justdepending on spine placement he brought in to play a lot of otherfactors. I really think that this preoccupation with the spine is not as importantas everyone seems to think it is. Despite the statements that acorrectly made rod will have no spine, I think that we have to recognizethat we live in an imperfect world and are ourselvessomewhat short of perfection. Therefor, I suspectthat all bamboo rods will have a spine, albeit some may be so faint as tobe virtually indetectable. Be that as it may, we should remember that touse only one frame of reference to evaluate our work, is really beingrather shortsighted. Ralph from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jul 28 22:14:10 2001Received: from f6T3EAZ25425 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re:Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Actually, it doesn't matter that much to me. If someone wants my tapers =they are more than welcome to them, and if they want to sell the rod, I =really don't care if my name is on it or not. I'm completely neutral on =that issue as far as my tapers go. If you want to put my name on one of =your rods, fine, if not, we'll still turn up a Budweiser or two next =time we meet. One thing I do try to keep in mind is that although I may =have developed the taper, I wasn't the one that spent 40 or more hours =putting it together and I would rather see the credit go to the guy who =got all the splinters and bamboo cuts making the rod.As far as paying homage to past rodmakers. Well, on the rare =occasions that I build a Gillum or Young rod (once in the past two =years), I do acknowledge the original designer of the taper. Back to the varnish room!Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 7:40 PMSubject: Re:Rod signatures Tony, Good point. You can not make a pair of paints and put LEVI on them, =nor can an after market part for a car have Chevy or Ford stamped on it. =I think it is respectful to give credit to the classics but some times =families and love ones my not appreciate it. Maybe some well known makers can put in their 2 cents. Ralph Moon do =you want makers coping your tapers and putting your name on it along =with their own? How about you Bob Nunley? A.J. how about it? Later, Adam Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 11:44 AMSubject: Re:Rod signatures I do the same as you for the most part.:))My Firehole model is Wayne's Sir "D" wants my tapers they are more than welcome to them, and if they want to = on one of your rods, fine, if not, we'll still turn up a Budweiser or = may have developed the taper, I wasn't the one that spent 40 or more = putting it together and I would rather see the credit go to the guy who = the splinters and bamboo cuts making the rod. (once in the past two years), I do acknowledge the original designer of = taper. Back to the varnish room!Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 = PMSubject: Re:Rod =signatures Tony, Good point. You can not make a pair = put LEVI on them, nor can an after market part for a car have Chevy or = stamped on it. I think it is respectful to give credit to the classics = some times families and love ones my not appreciate it. Maybe some well known makers canput = cents. Ralph Moon do you want makers coping your tapers and putting = it? Later, Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 = AMSubject: Re:Rod =signatures Harry part.:)) "D" from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 28 22:17:53 2001 f6T3HqZ25726 , Subject: Re: Multi-weight rods HI Bob:As far as the 7' 3/4/5/ quadrate of yours goes...it was the highlight of my Grayling trip as far as rods go with several right behind it.I have found personally that the quadrates I have built seem slightly more flexible for line weight than the hexes. My only guess as to why your 7' casts the three line weights well and the shorter rod only one is....maybe the longer rod gives it more opportunity to flex to meet the demands of hurling the line. (Just like a rod may cast 20 feet nicely off the tip and 70 feet by flexing into the butt). It is a weight/force issue as well as how much line is out. 35' of DT3 may be the same weight as 28 feet of DT5, etc...My experience with really short rods (like AJ's 4'4" beauty) is that they were less forgiving on line weight than the 9' production rods I have cast. I am assuming (based only on casting and intuition) that the longer rods have more possibilities for comfort zones/areas which they will flex into to cast the rod for different line weights.I am very interested as to what others will say.Best regards,Bob from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 28 22:36:19 2001 f6T3aIZ26472 Subject: Re:Rod signatures I agree with Tony that you should give credit to the taper creator, but I would not put it on a rod either. I would give that info orally or in correspondence for sure.I think that using a dead (usually) makers name in a listing for newly built rods is rather odd territory. On one hand, it is nice to give something to compare a new rod's action to. On the other hand, it seems a bit dishonest or unfair to place ones self in the same league as the classic maker or to use their name to sell your product. I find it funny to read "@#$%'s version of a Payne 98" and then see a rod that resembles a real Payne 98 in no way (components, wraps, ferrule style) except that the numbers of some Payne 98 were used as target values for the blank.Credit...yes, association...I don't think that's fair.My two cents,Bob from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jul 28 22:52:34 2001 f6T3qXZ27175 Subject: Re: Walton Powell --=====================_3345737==_.ALT Hi Ralph:As I read that article I recalled less than 2 months ago, I stood at Grayrock (in a big group tailgating at Dave VB and Kathy Scott's truck, someone back me up on this one) and heard another rod maker say clear as day, "Those rods in that movie...yep, they were mine." I guess everyone has some tie to that movie. Fascinating stuff on Walton. Thanks for the link.Best regards,Bob At 05:43 PM 7/28/2001 -0600, Ralph Moon wrote:I thought that you might enjoy reading a newspaper article in the Island Park News about Walton Powell. http://www.islandparknews.com/ . It under top news stories, Rocky Mountain Expressions. An interesting sidelight. I worked on the movie too, and I can tell you that the rods that Walton copied were Montagues. I had a chance to fish one of the movies Hexagraph rods. Sorry, dear friend Walton, I hated it. It was akin to casting a 2x4. Also to however inquired about George Grant. He is currently in a nursing home in Butte. Not long before he went there he tied up a quantity of one of his flies and in tune with his wishes, it was sold a $5.00 each. Certainly a rare chance to pick up one of the rarest of flies. George is no longer tying, and is quite feeble, but still going. If anyone needs more information, e-mail me direct and I will try to get a contact for you. Ralph don't expect miracles, I am going to FFF Conclave next week and may not get back to you for a week or two --=====================_3345737==_.ALT Hi Ralph:As I read that article I recalled less than 2 months ago, I stood atGrayrock (in a big group tailgating at Dave VB and Kathy Scott's truck,someone back me up on this one) and heard another rod maker say clear asday, "Those rods in that movie...yep, they were mine." I guesseveryone has some tie to that movie. Fascinating stuff on Walton. Thanks Best regards,Bob At 05:43 PM 7/28/2001 -0600, Ralph Moon wrote:I thought that you might enjoyreading a newspaper article in the Island Park News about Walton http://www.islandparknews.com/ more information, e-mail me direct and I will try to get a contact for don't expect miracles, I am going to FFF Conclave next week and may not getback to you for a week or two --=====================_3345737==_.ALT-- from stpete@netten.net Sat Jul 28 23:55:09 2001 f6T4t8Z29095 Subject: Signatures, line weights, glues, and splines Guys, I sign all my rods on the spline, therefore if I find that all my stripsare equal, I have to take off a few mils from one of them so that I willknow where to sign my rod. While I don't sign my actual name, I do usethe name of the famous maker I am copying but feel that is OK since Iconfer with them during my out of body experiences late at night. Tokeep things honest I add the phrase 'yeah, right' after the signature.The rods I make are specially tapered to cast either even line weightsor odd line weights but not both. They cannot cast any lines using theold letter designations since I use modern glues. Speaking of glues, I began to heat set after glue up (I use EponVera-said 848 and Epiphone 3140), and I decided to combine heat treatingwith heat setting. I thought this was a wonderful idea and would helpme save a lot of time. Now I find that my rods aren't coming out tospec. They are coming out rather oval instead of a uniform hexagon.This helps cut down on the lateral modulation during the cast. I'mhiring the guy who did the early Trident rod damping advertisingcampaign. I understand that those rods were very well received. We arein the middle of hammering out the details, but the last time I visitedhim while I was Astral Traveling, he didn't recognize me as human andfreaked out. He started spraying Raid all over his room. I guess hethought I was a mosquito or something. Jeez! Anyways, as a professional rodmaker, I need some help straightening thismess out. Armando from thinair@townsqr.com Sun Jul 29 00:55:06 2001 f6T5t5Z01298 compaqwww.townsqr.com for;Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:46:44 -0500 Subject: a little advice? If anyone has the time, would you mind taking a look at the graphs at Hexrod(saved under ROD ID: Gary) for my first rod? Any advice about tapermodification or anything else would be appreciated. I was after asemi- parabolic action and seem to have achieved that to a degree. The rodloads down into the handle, but I think I may have left the butt section abit thick. Would shaving the butt down a bit compromise the integrity ofthe rod to an unacceptable degree for any improvement gained inperformance?I'm inclined to just wrap it and finish it, but I don't mind experimenting alittle, either. As a new maker I've learned an incredible amount justreading the list messages, even though much is still quite beyond my levelof incompetence... Thanks in advance. Regards,Gary Plowick from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Jul 29 01:48:49 2001 f6T6mmZ02956 Subject: Re: Walton Powell This is a multi-part message in MIME format. BobYou know the scene in the beginning of the movie,you know the one where he is tying on a fly.Well I don't tell this to too many people ,but those are my hands :)) =LOL LOL Ha ha ha.And I was also the stunt double for Brad Pit when they went over the =falls. Boy did that one really hurt!If you play it back in slow motion you can see the scared as ***T look = That's when I decided to quit my day job and become a maker.After Redford called for take 32 I'd had enough.:)) LOLJust havin funTony Miller BobYou know the scene in the beginning of= movie,you know the one where he is tying on fly.Well I don't tell this to too many = those are my hands :)) LOL LOL Ha ha ha. when they went over the falls. Boy did that one really =hurt!If you play it back in slow motion you = scared as ***T look on my face. = become a maker. = enough.:)) LOLJust havin funTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Jul 29 03:26:15 2001 f6T8QEZ04531 Subject: Tapers & signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Here is something to confuse the issue a little more.Is taper really some ones to claim?After all what is a taper? Its a sequence of Dimensions.Last I heard it was pretty hard to patent a dimension.If the only person who could make a 16" tire had a patent on 16", =nothing would be allowed to be 16" and certainly not another tire. What =I'm saying is you can patent the tire,but you can't patent 16 inches. =Now lets look at the taper itself (not a rod taper) just a taper. The =inventor of a certain rod taper didn't invent the idea of taper. Or for =that matter didn't invent the idea of a fishing rod either. With that =said: If I decide to make 16" tires for a living, do I have to pay my =respects to Firestone and Michellin just because they made 16" tires =before me.Lets be realistic here, We are making fishing rods. Not curing Diseases =and making peace treaties. I just invented a taperI'll cover the rest of the dimensions left(those that have not been used =yet) during the next year.LOL So if you come up with a taper within the =next year , make sure you check with me, just incase I have written it = Doesn't that sound funny? couldn't a person do this?Tony Miller Here is something to confuse the issuea = more.Is taper really some ones to =claim?After all what is a taper? Its a = Dimensions.Last I heard it was pretty hard to = dimension.If the only person who could make a16" = patent on 16", nothing would be allowed to be 16" and certainly not = tire. What I'm saying is you can patent the tire,but you can't patent 16 = Now lets look at the taper itself (not a rod taper) just a taper. The = of a certain rod taper didn't invent the idea of taper. Or for that = didn't invent the idea of a fishing rod either. With that said: If I = make 16" tires for a living, do I have to pay my respects to Firestone = Michellin just because they made 16" tires before me.Lets be realistic here, We are making = taperI'll cover the rest of the dimensions = Doesn't that sound funny? couldn't a = this?Tony Miller from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jul 29 05:04:48 2001 f6TA4lZ05219 sender ) Subject: Re: Rod signatures --------------925B8249A8A1671E04FE46AC Suppose I take a Young taper and a Dickerson taper add them together anddevide by 2. Who's taper is that? I come up with some of the nicestcasting rods that way. Marty Bob Nunley wrote: Actually, it doesn't matter that much to me. If someone wants mytapers they are more than welcome to them, and if they want to sellthe rod, I really don't care if my name is on it or not. I'mcompletely neutral on that issue as far as my tapers go. If you wantto put my name on one of your rods, fine, if not, we'll still turn upa Budweiser or two next time we meet. One thing I do try to keep inmind is that although I may have developed the taper, I wasn't the onethat spent 40 or more hours putting it together and I would rather seethe credit go to the guy who got all the splinters and bamboo cutsmaking the rod. As far as paying homage to past rodmakers. Well,on the rare occasions that I build a Gillum or Young rod (once in thepast two years), I do acknowledge the original designer of thetaper. Back to the varnish room!Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message -----From: Adam Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 7:40 PMSubject: Re:Rod signaturesTony, Good point. You can not make a pair of paints and putLEVI on them, nor can an after market part for a car haveChevy or Ford stamped on it. I think it is respectful togive credit to the classics but some times families and loveones my not appreciate it. Maybe some well known makers canput in their 2 cents. Ralph Moon do you want makers copingyour tapers and putting your name on it along with theirown? How about you Bob Nunley? A.J. how aboutit? Later, Adam Vigil ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 11:44 AMSubject: Re:Rod signaturesHarryI do the same as you for the most part.:))MyFirehole model is Wayne's Sir "D" --------------925B8249A8A1671E04FE46AC Suppose I take a Young taper and a Dickerson taper add them together anddevide by 2. Who's taper is that? I come up with some of the nicest castingrods that way. MartyBob Nunley wrote: Actually, it doesn't than welcome to them, and if they want to sell the rod, I really don't rods, fine, if not, we'll still turn up a Budweiser or two next time we developed the taper, I wasn't the one that spent 40 or more hours puttingit together and I would rather see the credit go to the guy who got all occasionsthat I build a Gillum or Young rod (once in the past two years), I doacknowledge Custom Split Cane Fly Rods ----- Original Message ----- From:AdamVigil ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 7:40PM Subject: Re:Rod signatures point. You can not make a pair of paints and put LEVI on them, nor canan after market part for a car have Chevy or Ford stamped on it. I thinkit is respectful to give credit to the classics but some times families some well known makers can put in their 2 cents. Ralph Moon do you wantmakers coping your tapers and putting your name on it along with theirown? How about you Bob Nunley? A.J. how about Vigil ----- Original Message ----- From:TonyMiller Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 11:44AM Subject: Re:Rod signatures the same as you for the most part.:))MyFirehole model is Wayne's Sir "D" --------------925B8249A8A1671E04FE46AC-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Jul 29 05:23:56 2001 f6TANtZ05538 ;Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:23:51 +0000 Subject: Re: Rod signatures Doug, I always name the taper I used for reference on my rods. I refer to itthis way because I am not slavish about copying it in all aspects and Imight "tweak" here and there, for personal preference or esthetics. Just my personal preferences. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Douglas Losey wrote: Hi All, When signing a rod is it customary to include the name of the taperoriginator..for instance if I make a rod using a FE Thomas tapershould this be included on the signature? My thought is of course itshould be included, and this leads to another question.....if indesigning a rod ....the maker chooses a particular taper from notes orarchives, let's say a Garrison taper and wanting a slightly differentaction to the rod..."tweaks" this taper a couple of thousandths inplaces to achieve the desired action...whose taper is it....a modifiedGarrison...or a taper developed by the maker...? thanks,losey from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jul 29 07:17:42 2001 f6TCHfZ06408 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Signatures, line weights, glues, and splines Rick,Do you mind bringing your medication to SRG this year? We can do alittle trading! I'll give you 20 Valium for one of whatever it is!!! *S* Bob ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Signatures, line weights, glues, and splines Guys, I sign all my rods on the spline, therefore if I find that all my stripsare equal, I have to take off a few mils from one of them so that I willknow where to sign my rod. While I don't sign my actual name, I do usethe name of the famous maker I am copying but feel that is OK since Iconfer with them during my out of body experiences late at night. Tokeep things honest I add the phrase 'yeah, right' after the signature.The rods I make are specially tapered to cast either even line weightsor odd line weights but not both. They cannot cast any lines using theold letter designations since I use modern glues. Speaking of glues, I began to heat set after glue up (I use EponVera-said 848 and Epiphone 3140), and I decided to combine heat treatingwith heat setting. I thought this was a wonderful idea and would helpme save a lot of time. Now I find that my rods aren't coming out tospec. They are coming out rather oval instead of a uniform hexagon.This helps cut down on the lateral modulation during the cast. I'mhiring the guy who did the early Trident rod damping advertisingcampaign. I understand that those rods were very well received. We arein the middle of hammering out the details, but the last time I visitedhim while I was Astral Traveling, he didn't recognize me as human andfreaked out. He started spraying Raid all over his room. I guess hethought I was a mosquito or something. Jeez! Anyways, as a professional rodmaker, I need some help straightening thismess out. Armando from mrmac@tcimet.net Sun Jul 29 08:29:25 2001 f6TDTOZ07832 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:29:22 -0400 Subject: Re: a little advice? Gary, I don't claim to be any real expert on interpreting the graphs, but fromwhat I have studied in the archives, it would seem to me that for the actionyouwant, you probably should reduce the butt section thickness in order to workita little harder. I'm a little surprised that you are finding it to load into thehandle area. I recently built the Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, noted forbeinga real cannon, and it's only .375 at the handle and is plenty stiff, maybe evena little too much for my tastes, which tend to run toward the PHY tapers. Ifyou look at the stress curves of the parabolic types, PHY, Pezon & Michel,Payne's Parabolic, or others with high praise for their feel and castingability, the stress tends to rise as you move toward the handle, where yoursfalls off due to the very thick section. Reducing the thickness would resultinthat effect. On the downside, since you have already built it, then thereduction in thickness would be from the outer power fibers, and the generalconsensus seems to be that's probably not a good thing and you would wanttoproceed very carefully. As I said, not an expert, but just an opinion. The "pros" might be a littlemore experienced and authoritative on it. Good luck with it and congratulations on your first rod! mac Gary Plowick wrote: If anyone has the time, would you mind taking a look at the graphs atHexrod(saved under ROD ID: Gary) for my first rod? Any advice about tapermodification or anything else would be appreciated. I was after asemi- parabolic action and seem to have achieved that to a degree. The rodloads down into the handle, but I think I may have left the butt section abit thick. Would shaving the butt down a bit compromise the integrity ofthe rod to an unacceptable degree for any improvement gained inperformance?I'm inclined to just wrap it and finish it, but I don't mind experimenting alittle, either. As a new maker I've learned an incredible amount justreading the list messages, even though much is still quite beyond my levelof incompetence... Thanks in advance. Regards,Gary Plowick from cotner@novagate.com Sun Jul 29 08:54:08 2001 f6TDs6Z08354; f6TDrbf99754; "Reichardt, Field" ,"Retherford, Stephen" ,"Retherford, Stephen" ,"Reynolds, Jim" , "Reynolds, Jim","Rezny, JoAnne" ,Rick & Susie Wallace ,rick zieger , "Ridderbos, John","Riegler, Tom" , "Robinson, Jaqueline" ,"Rockwood, Al" ,"Rodgers, Brett" ,Rodmakers discussion group ,Rodmakers ListProc ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Potential virus in attachment: DON'T OPEN YESTERDAY'SATTACHMENT!! Greetings!If you received no email from me yesterday, please feel free todeletethis message now. If you did get an email from me yesterday, and it hadan attachment, I'm embarrassed to inform you that the attachment to thatemail had a virus: Sirc.If you haven't opened the attachment, don't - no matter howjuicy itmay look. Delete it now. If you open the attachment, you *will* get http://www.sarc.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@mm.htmlto rid your system of the foul stuff.I hope that you do not get this nasty thing. Please inform meof thename of the document(s) that were attached to the email(s). I apologize Regards,Roger Cotner616-846-7153 from dryfly@erols.com Sun Jul 29 10:07:37 2001 f6TF7aZ09650 ([208.58.195.105] helo=homeserver) Subject: Re: Rod signatures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ... a Young taper and a Dickerson taper add them together and devide by = Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:02 AMSubject: Re: Rod signatures Suppose I take a Young taper and a Dickerson taper add them together =and devide by 2. Who's taper is that? I come up with some of the nicest = Actually, it doesn't matter that much to me. If someone wants my =tapers they are more than welcome to them, and if they want to sell the =rod, I really don't care if my name is on it or not. I'm completely =neutral on that issue as far as my tapers go. If you want to put my =name on one of your rods, fine, if not, we'll still turn up a Budweiser =or two next time we meet. One thing I do try to keep in mind is that =although I may have developed the taper, I wasn't the one that spent 40 =or more hours putting it together and I would rather see the credit go =to the guy who got all the splinters and bamboo cuts making the rod. =As far as paying homage to past rodmakers. Well, on the rare occasions =that I build a Gillum or Young rod (once in the past two years), I do =acknowledge the original designer of the taper. Back to the varnish = ----- Original Message -----From: Adam Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 7:40 PMSubject: Re:Rod signaturesTony, Good point. You can not make a pair of paints and put LEVI =on them, nor can an after market part for a car have Chevy or Ford =stamped on it. I think it is respectful to give credit to the classics =but some times families and love ones my not appreciate it. Maybe some =well known makers can put in their 2 cents. Ralph Moon do you want =makers coping your tapers and putting your name on it along with their = ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 11:44 AMSubject: Re:Rod signaturesHarryI do the same as you for the most part.:))My Firehole =model is Wayne's Sir "D" = Young Dickerson, for short a "Young Dick" ----- Original Message ----- none = Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 =6:02 AMSubject: Re: Rod =signaturesSuppose I take a Young taper and a Dickerson taper add = together and devide by 2. Who's taper is that? I come up with some of = wants my tapers they are more than welcome to them, and if they want = to put my name on one of your rods, fine, if not, we'll still turn = is that although I may have developed the taper, I wasn't the one = 40 or more hours putting it together and I would rather see the = rod (once in the past two years), I do acknowledge the original = ht= ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Saturday, July 28, = PM point. You can not make a pair of paints and put LEVI on them, nor = after market part for a car have Chevy or Ford stamped on it. I = is respectful to give credit to the classics but some times = do you want makers coping your tapers and putting your name on it = ----- Original Message =----- Miller Sent: Saturday, July 28, = AM part.:))My Firehole model is = ="D" from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jul 29 10:21:52 2001 f6TFLnZ10025 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! This is some of the most interesting stuff about bamboo in the raw I've read. Tony At 10:58 AM 7/29/01 +0900, Max wrote:Hi, As a race who eat bamboo shoots, let me say something. In selecting splitted strips, it is said in our society that sunny side andback (opposite) side strips are the best. In general, a plant has a tendency to face their leaves toward sun beam.So, a bamboo cane also has a tendency, in general, to lean over sunny side alittle.As a bamboo cane does not have branches and leaves at a lower position,this leaning would happen at rather higher position. But the weight ofbranches would affect to the lower part of the culm actually (moment!).So, sunny side and the opposite (back) side would tend to have straightpower fibers. And sunny side would have a tendency to have stronger (wellgrown) fibers by sun beam.Thus natural culm would have a spine (in not equater countries). Have you seen that node is trying to be flat to the surface of the earth?Such a bamboo cane standing on the slope and those who fail to standstraight, mostly have node lines (around the cane) which are not 90degreesagainst culm's side line. When we cut a bamboo shoot into two for coocking, it is amazing that allthe nodes of the cane are already compacted there. It just grows veryrapidly, in a couple of days, to reach to the height of an adult bamboo(it's like an antena of car radio). Culm diameter is already decided at theshoot age. It will not increase its diameter after it grows. Max /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jul 29 10:21:52 2001 f6TFLnZ10024 Subject: Re: A river runs through it. In light of the current thread about rods and line weights I had heard thelines they used for the movie were a few sizes up to what would normally beused so they showed up better. I forgot where I heard that so it may not beso. Tony At 07:53 PM 7/28/01 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: I'm sitting here holding a brochure from Kane Klassics.And it says that he(Doug Kulick) restored the rods for the movie.Does anyone know how many people restored rods for the movie?Does anyone know how many were done? in the brochure it says his wereGrangers.It was a very interesting article, I'm just wondering.I have the making of the movie on DVD and It doesn't refer to the rods thatwere used. I was kind of hoping it would have .Tony Miller /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. " - Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jul 29 10:26:18 2001 f6TFQGZ10430 Subject: Re:Rod signatures I used to climb rock and mountain and it was a hienous crime second only toslaming a bolt into a route that has been climbed without one to claim anew route as your own if somebody else had done it. It was also thoughtthat unless the varient to the original route was substancial and worthwhile it was best to just say you did the original route which wasbasically giving credit to the person/people with the imagination and orskill who first saw the route and did the work in establisjhing it, more soin mountaineering than rock climbing but still to some degree.DH is a good example of this in that he himself to his credit has writtenthat his adjustments to the Sir D are not enough to warrant calling theresult a different taper preferring to call it the Darrel variant of the WC7' #4 and I think this is partly the reason so many people are so keen topoint out that the Sir D is actually WC's original taper not the variant.It's notthat anybody wants to take credit away from DH it's just thatcredit should be given where it's due to the originator. There are soooooo many really great tapers around and some people don'tseethe point in designing tapers if there are tapers in existence that arebetter than that person could design and I'm specifically speaking formyself here. If you make something based on somebody else's work that person should becredited as the designer of the taper and you as the maker and it hasnothing to do with saleability of the item. The taper was developed bysomebody and the assumption should be the rod is going to basically be ofthe casting style of the original, the different wraps, finish etc are yourown (assuming you haven't also altered the taper) variations and that's whythe maker has the right to put his name on the rod with the designer. Ifthe rod based on a good taper performs badly that's the fault of the makerand it's the designer's name that is tarnished. Tony At 11:36 PM 7/28/01 -0400, Downandacross Rods wrote:I agree with Tony that you should give credit to the taper creator, but I would not put it on a rod either. I would give that info orally or in correspondence for sure.I think that using a dead (usually) makers name in a listing for newly built rods is rather odd territory. On one hand, it is nice to give something to compare a new rod's action to. On the other hand, it seems a bit dishonest or unfair to place ones self in the same league as the classic maker or to use their name to sell your product. I find it funny to read "@#$%'s version of a Payne 98" and then see a rod that resembles a real Payne 98 in no way (components, wraps, ferrule style) except that the numbers of some Payne 98 were used as target values for the blank.Credit...yes, association...I don't think that's fair.My two cents,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jul 29 11:01:50 2001 f6TG1oZ11049 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:28:21 -0500 Subject: FFF Conclave OK, I know of a couple of you that are, but just wanted to see if anyoneelse is going to livingston to the FFF Conclave next week. If you are,email me offlist. Thanks,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Jul 29 11:16:57 2001 f6TGGvZ11514 Subject: Re: A river runs through it. I met Jason Borger at the International Fly Tackle Dealer Show in Denver in1997. We were introduced by a mutual acquaintance and had an opportunitytotalk in length. Jason did the "Shadow Casting" part as a double for BradPitt, and YES they did line em up a couple of line sizes. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: A river runs through it. In light of the current thread about rods and line weights I had heard thelines they used for the movie were a few sizes up to what would normallybeused so they showed up better. I forgot where I heard that so it may notbeso. Tony At 07:53 PM 7/28/01 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: I'm sitting here holding a brochure from Kane Klassics.And it says that he(Doug Kulick) restored the rods for the movie.Does anyone know how many people restored rods for the movie?Does anyone know how many were done? in the brochure it says his wereGrangers.It was a very interesting article, I'm just wondering.I have the making of the movie on DVD and It doesn't refer to the rodsthatwere used. I was kind of hoping it would have .Tony Miller /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. "- Tom Clancy /*************************************************************************/ from harms1@pa.net Sun Jul 29 11:40:07 2001 f6TGe6Z12098 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! Adam, Basically, I think the key here would be that, although the strips in aglued-up section may appear to be equal, in fact, they may NOT really beequal. Among other things that can "go wrong," we sometimes create less thanperfect, equilateral triangles down the full length of a given strip (incomparison, say, to its neighbor). That is, the outer flat of an individualstrip may measure to its proper width, while the apex within could beslightly skewed to one side. This is a potential problem that wouldn''tnecessarily show up later in one's measurements across flats, since, whenrun through the binder, the other five strips can have the effect of"wedging" all six flats outward to create a measured appearance ofuniformity. Also, in planing, our individual strips don't always "mike-out" in perfectaccord with our half-width taper target. A minute splinter (or anaccumulation of enamal dust) jambed in the base of the form's trianglecould force a strip upward. Or again, we may not have planed a smallportion of a strip quite down to the surface of the form. We don't alwaysnotice these small matters while building, as perhaps we "ought" to be ableto do. Deviations of these sorts, too, may not become apparent in latermeasurements, as it is often possible for subtle variations in theneighboring five strips to "mask" a local problem in a single, offendingstrip. The binding process often has a way of "averaging" the actualdimensions of the six strips involved, so that subsequent measurementsdon'talways reveal what has actually happened. Subtle imperfections such as those I have suggested can create thefeel of a spine in a tip section more readily than in a larger and more"forgiving" butt section. A spine may be present in a butt section too, ofcourse, but an"error" in a butt section of comparable magnitude to what mayhave gone wrong in a tip probably would not be as noticible. (I am notsuggesting that a butt section is "easier" to build than a tip, forcertainly they each have their own critical considerations.) Just food for thought, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Get a Spine! Bill, What is it that would cause a spine, if all splines are equal and no gluelines are evident? Just wondering. Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: WILLIAM HARMS Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:29 AMSubject: Re: Get a Spine! All, Any given culm may well have a spine, depending upon its own, peculiargrowing conditions. But, if one has taken all six strips taken from thesame culm, and if one has been precise in construction, the rod itselfshould have no detectable spine. In short, if you detecct a spine in acanerod, it is the fault of the builder. Something has gone wrong. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:31 PMSubject: Get a Spine! Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a ChiropracticDoctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132."Unlikemodern materials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" orstifferplane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to knowwhatother Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culmhaveaspine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it so wecoulduse those strips strategically in a rod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil from harms1@pa.net Sun Jul 29 11:44:40 2001 f6TGidZ12297 Subject: Re: Spine experiment Adam, Three strips from one side and three from the other may actually bepreferrable, if these are alternated. There are many imponderables in thewhole process, and many things that are theoretically possible, turn out tohave no practical effect. Probably, we will never be able to predict andcontrol all the issues we wonder about. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Spine experiment Hi all, Since I started this thread let me stick my nose in and tell you what Ithink my be possible. We can agree culms have a spine, some rods have a spine, some do not. Ifthecraftsmanship is done well why is there still a spine? Could it be thatbeing we take 24 or so strips from a culm we are not careful in choosingstrips that are in proximity of each other? In making a butt 6 strips areused. Well if a whole culm is split there are 12 strips from each side. Dowe pay attention when we choose strips to assemble a section or are wepossibly grabbing 3 strip from one side and 3 from the other side of theculm? If each half of the culm is marked on the butts and we insure that thestrips which make up a section are from the same side of the culm could wepossibly decrease the possibility of a spine? Just a thought, Adam Vigil from harms1@pa.net Sun Jul 29 11:51:22 2001 f6TGpLZ12624 Subject: Re: Get a Spine! No doubt there are any number of factors that could contribute to a growingculm developing a spine. Probably, most culms do have a spine of one sortor another--due to the shape of circumference, overall wall thickness,relative density of powerfibers, etc. How much this can be measured andthen controlled in our building process, however, is a very different matterto ponder. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Get a Spine! Tony, the dimension of the material plays one part in the composition of thestrip. As it has been noted today on the board the bamboo culm is not thesame around the entire axis. A number of things come to mind, winddirection during the growth stage, direction of the sun, drying conditions,etc. However the wind direction is one that as a civil engineer I feelcomfortable talking about. When the culm blows in the wind it will stretchon one side and compress on the other. The plant I assume tries tocompensate for this and will grow differently on both sides. Also, sincethe bamboo grows so fast different wind directions each day could changethegrowth structure on the axis daily. I would like to note that I'm juststarting out in bamboo rod building and I'm not a botanist, these are justthoughts from a engineering mind that knows building with natural materialsrequires a little more thought processes than using a material that mustmeet some sort of specification. Darrin L. Curtis, PhD, PESan Antonio TX----- Original Message -----From: Tony Miller Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:11 PMSubject: Re: Get a Spine! My first thought on this was that if a personplanes each strip to the same dimension than why would there be a spine inthe rod. But then I read Ray's input on it.And having his book, I noticed that on the back ,Ray has a Master's degreein Mechanical Engineering. And he has been making rods a way lot longer thanmyself. So I think highly of his advise. As a machinist I thought to myselfwouldn't materials of the same dimensiongive the same amount of resistance. So I was confused?Then it hit me. The reason Ray is Correct in his thinking is that bamboohas power fibers. These fibers cannot be uniform through out the culm.Afterall it is grown and not man made. Would a strip with less power fibers flexthe same as one with more?Even though the outside dimension was the same? I'll bet if you took twostrips from the same culm and made them dimensionally the same. Thenflexedthem at the same exact points in a Coordinate Measuring Machine(CMM). Youwould find that the curve would NOT be identical. It might not be off byalot.Ray ,am I wrong here? Am I using the wrong hypothesis?Wouldn't that give a rod a spine ,even though the more close thedimensions the less pronounce? But still there, none the less.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Jul 29 12:29:06 2001 f6THT5Z13238 Subject: Re: A river runs through it. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Yes I remember now.The line kept getting caught on the paddle stuck in my A**after the falls shot. LOLAfter they took me to the hospital and removed the paddle , I was =feeling a little sore. And that's when they decide to bring in from jojo@ipa.net Sun Jul 29 15:25:18 2001 f6TKOxZ16705 Subject: Re: Signatures, line weights, glues, and splines I guess it's true what they say about the 60's, certain organic substancesmade from ergots, and flashbacks. M-D Guys, I sign all my rods on the spline, therefore if I find that all my stripsare equal, I have to take off a few mils from one of them so that I willknow where to sign my rod. While I don't sign my actual name, I do usethe name of the famous maker I am copying but feel that is OK since Iconfer with them during my out of body experiences late at night. Tokeep things honest I add the phrase 'yeah, right' after the signature.The rods I make are specially tapered to cast either even line weightsor odd line weights but not both. They cannot cast any lines using theold letter designations since I use modern glues. Speaking of glues, I began to heat set after glue up (I use EponVera-said 848 and Epiphone 3140), and I decided to combine heat treatingwith heat setting. I thought this was a wonderful idea and would helpme save a lot of time. Now I find that my rods aren't coming out tospec. They are coming out rather oval instead of a uniform hexagon.This helps cut down on the lateral modulation during the cast. I'mhiring the guy who did the early Trident rod damping advertisingcampaign. I understand that those rods were very well received. We arein the middle of hammering out the details, but the last time I visitedhim while I was Astral Traveling, he didn't recognize me as human andfreaked out. He started spraying Raid all over his room. I guess hethought I was a mosquito or something. Jeez! Anyways, as a professional rodmaker, I need some help straightening thismess out. Armando from oandc@msn.com Sun Jul 29 16:31:56 2001 f6TLVtZ18649 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:31:49 -0700 Subject: Heat Gun Spreader FILETIME=[E02CD7C0:01C11875] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Gentleman,I just picked up a Wagner variable temp heat gun here in town that =should serve me for a while. It came with a heat shield thats basically =a collor that flares out on top to about 4". However, it isn't enclosed =on the bottom. Is this going to work for me or will I need to enclose =the bottom so it functions as a nozzle? Input appreciated.Wayne Gentleman,I just picked up a Wagner variable temp= here in town that should serve me for a while. It came with a heat = basically a collor that flares out on top to about 4". However, it isn't = enclose the bottom so it functions as a nozzle? Input =appreciated.Wayne from anglport@con2.com Sun Jul 29 17:34:44 2001 f6TMYiZ20603 Subject: Re: Spine experiment Bill,I'VE GOT IT! We split out 12 sections, flat-plane one side of each,laminate the flat edges of two strips which were directly opposite eachother in the culm to get six resultants, then plane THOSE rectangles intothe equilateral triangles for the rod. I suspect we could then refer to therod as an Epon rod with bamboo fillers!I'm sorry, I've got to get back on my medication; Mr. Nunley, how manyvalium you offering and for what?Art ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Spine experiment Adam, Three strips from one side and three from the other may actually bepreferrable, if these are alternated. There are many imponderables in thewhole process, and many things that are theoretically possible, turn outtohave no practical effect. Probably, we will never be able to predict andcontrol all the issues we wonder about. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:55 PMSubject: Spine experiment Hi all, Since I started this thread let me stick my nose in and tell you what Ithink my be possible. We can agree culms have a spine, some rods have a spine, some do not. Ifthecraftsmanship is done well why is there still a spine? Could it be thatbeing we take 24 or so strips from a culm we are not careful in choosingstrips that are in proximity of each other? In making a butt 6 strips areused. Well if a whole culm is split there are 12 strips from each side. Dowe pay attention when we choose strips to assemble a section or are wepossibly grabbing 3 strip from one side and 3 from the other side of theculm? If each half of the culm is marked on the butts and we insure that thestrips which make up a section are from the same side of the culm couldwepossibly decrease the possibility of a spine? Just a thought, Adam Vigil from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jul 29 20:40:44 2001 f6U1ehZ25147 Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan In a message dated 07/27/2001 10:35:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, iank@ts.co.nz writes: Hi Ian,I've never tried making a case from cane, but Ithink you're right about what a job it would be. Harry Boydsaid he made one a while ago and it took so long to make,that it wasn't worth it.When I saw this site, I thought it was sort of cool.maybe that's why they charge $1500.00 for a rod? Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jul 29 20:55:16 2001 f6U1tFZ25675 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:52:14 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Partridge blank question Dennis,unless you like very slow rods and poor workmanship (personalopiniononly) I would stay away from Partridge blanks.There are plenty of other people out there that sell better blanks. IknowAJ Thramer had some blanks for sale in Russ Goodings shop last time I wasthere thatwere really nice and would probably be more to your casting style.AJ is onthis listand will probably correct me if I'm wrong.Some of the other builders here on list sell blanks as well and I'm sure mostofthem equal/exceed Partridge quality. Shawn Dennis Frazier Irvine wrote: Hi- I'm new to the list. Was hoping someone might have an opinion about the split bamboo blankssold by Cabella's. Partridge of Redditch is the manufactures name. Specifically the 6' 3/4 wieght 2piece, they charge $300 (described asBritish Action?-) and the 7'6" 4 piece for 6wieght at $340. This would be my first rod building attempt. The Cabella's site gives noinfo like tip end diameter or butt end which makes this more confusing. Thanks Dennis from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Sun Jul 29 21:13:10 2001 f6U2D9Z26454 Subject: cane selection... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, When selecting cane for a rod, irrespective of power fiber depth, is =there an acceptable level of water marks, stains, etc?My own opinion is natural marks are acceptable and somewhat required to =lend the "natural" feeling to the finished rod..I view this same as in =selecting woods for furniture making...some natural defects are = This is probably okay since my rods are for personal use, however I am =curious to know what is acceptable in a rod for sale. thanks,losey Hi all, When selecting cane for a rod, = etc?My own opinion is natural marks are = somewhat required to lend the "natural" feeling to the finished rod..I = same as in selecting woods for furniture making...some natural defects = desirable if they are worked into the finished piece. This is probably okay since my rods are= personal use, however I am curious to know what is acceptable in a rod = sale. thanks,losey from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Sun Jul 29 21:22:06 2001 f6U2M6Z26868 Subject: Re:Rod signatures Tony,Good analogy, I used to rock climb myself and can relate to routenaming.....I also remember controversy in Boulder over route renamingparticularly routes that had originally been done with pins and after thefirst free/clean ascent would be renamed. I suppose this is somewhat likemaking a Garrison replica and not acknowledging this on the signature line.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re:Rod signatures> I used to climb rock and mountain and it was ahienous crime second onlytoslaming a bolt into a route that has been climbed without one to claim anew route as your own if somebody else had done it. It was also thoughtthat unless the varient to the original route was substancial and worthwhile it was best to just say you did the original route which wasbasically giving credit to the person/people with the imagination and orskill who first saw the route and did the work in establisjhing it, moresoin mountaineering than rock climbing but still to some degree.DH is a good example of this in that he himself to his credit has writtenthat his adjustments to the Sir D are not enough to warrant calling theresult a different taper preferring to call it the Darrel variant of theWC7' #4 and I think this is partly the reason so many people are so keen topoint out that the Sir D is actually WC's original taper not the variant.It's not that anybody wants to take credit away from DH it's just thatcredit should be given where it's due to the originator. There are soooooo many really great tapers around and some people don'tseethe point in designing tapers if there are tapers in existence that arebetter than that person could design and I'm specifically speaking formyself here.If you make something based on somebody else's work that person shouldbecredited as the designer of the taper and you as the maker and it hasnothing to do with saleability of the item. The taper was developed bysomebody and the assumption should be the rod is going to basically be ofthe casting style of the original, the different wraps, finish etc areyourown (assuming you haven't also altered the taper) variations and that'swhythe maker has the right to put his name on the rod with the designer. Ifthe rod based on a good taper performs badly that's the fault of themakerand it's the designer's name that is tarnished. Tony At 11:36 PM 7/28/01 -0400, Downandacross Rods wrote:I agree with Tony that you should give credit to the taper creator, but Iwould not put it on a rod either. I would give that info orally or incorrespondence for sure.I think that using a dead (usually) makers name in a listing for newlybuilt rods is rather odd territory. On one hand, it is nice to givesomething to compare a new rod's action to. On the other hand, it seemsabit dishonest or unfair to place ones self in the same league as theclassic maker or to use their name to sell your product. I find it funnytoread "@#$%'s version of a Payne 98" and then see a rod that resembles areal Payne 98 in no way (components, wraps, ferrule style) except thatthenumbers of some Payne 98 were used as target values for the blank.Credit...yes, association...I don't think that's fair.My two cents,Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jul 29 21:24:20 2001 f6U2OJZ27102 Subject: Re: cane selection... In a message dated 07/29/2001 10:13:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, douglosey@spectrumenergy.com writes: I think that the water marks, etc. give the rod somecharacter. As long as the defect is only superficial and willnot cause any problems with the rod itself.Cane, as a natural product like wood, it will always havesome sort of "defects" in it. It doesn't grow "flawless," so whyshould we throw out the "flawed" cane ad use only flawlessculms? http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jul 29 23:22:30 2001 f6U4MTZ29535 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 21:15:37 -0700 Subject: Re: cane selection... --------------5A8C59BD4B4F9918264C2FC8 Doug, There's nothing wrong with using cane as wisely andefficiently as possible. At the same time, let's rememberthat bamboo is one of the cheapest parts of the rod. Ifwe're only able to average one rod per culm, we still spendmore money on good cork, not to mention good ferrules, thanon bamboo. Some water marks and stains are more than cosmeticblemishes. Cosmetic problems we can live with, butstructural defects are another story. The greyish-brownlooking spots often seem softer than surrounding areas ofclear cane. In those cases we obviously wouldn't use thatportion of the culm. Harry Douglas Losey wrote: Hi all, When selecting cane for a rod, irrespective ofpower fiber depth, is there an acceptable level of watermarks, stains, etc? "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------5A8C59BD4B4F9918264C2FC8 Doug, one rod per culm, we still spend more money on good cork, not to mentiongood ferrules, than on bamboo. cosmetic wouldn't use that portion of the culm. Douglas Losey wrote:Hi selecting cane for a rod, irrespective of power fiber depth, is there anacceptable level of water marks, stains, etc? "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------5A8C59BD4B4F9918264C2FC8-- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jul 30 01:09:44 2001 f6U69hZ01554 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 23:09:34 -0700 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:09:33 GMT Subject: Re: Partridge blank question FILETIME=[34218770:01C118BE] Anything I might say would likely be construed as a 'commercial 'post..........A.J. From: Shawn Pineo CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Partridge blank questionDate: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:57:58 -0400 Dennis,unless you like very slow rods and poor workmanship (personal opiniononly) I would stay away from Partridge blanks.There are plenty of other people out there that sell better blanks. I knowAJ Thramer had some blanks for sale in Russ Goodings shop last time I was there thatwere really nice and would probably be more to your casting style.AJ is on this listand will probably correct me if I'm wrong.Some of the other builders here on list sell blanks as well and I'm sure most ofthem equal/exceed Partridge quality. Shawn Dennis Frazier Irvine wrote: Hi- I'm new to the list. Was hoping someone might have an opinion about the split bamboo blankssold by Cabella's. Partridge of Redditch is the manufactures name. Specifically the 6' 3/4 wieght 2piece, they charge $300 (described asBritish Action?-) and the 7'6" 4 piece for 6wieght at $340. This would be my first rod building attempt. The Cabella's site gives noinfo like tip end diameter or butt end which makes this more confusing. Thanks Dennis _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jul 30 01:11:52 2001 f6U6BpZ01744 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 23:11:46 -0700 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:11:46 GMT Subject: Re: Rods made in Japan FILETIME=[830091B0:01C118BE] Of course a rod case doesn't cats too well, if it don't go chrome it!A.J. From: LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: Rods made in JapanDate: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 21:39:09 EDT In a message dated 07/27/2001 10:35:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,iank@ts.co.nz writes: Dave, Hardy used to make rod cases the same way. They look very nice but area lotharder to make then it seems at first impression. ( well, they are for me) Hi Ian,I've never tried making a case from cane, but Ithink you're right about what a job it would be. Harry Boydsaid he made one a while ago and it took so long to make,that it wasn't worth it.When I saw this site, I thought it was sort of cool.maybe that's why they charge $1500.00 for a rod? Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jul 30 01:30:49 2001 f6U6UmZ02302 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 23:30:43 -0700 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:30:42 GMT Subject: Re: Tapers & signatures FILETIME=[288EDA90:01C118C1] I think that we are all talking about(except the astral guy) respect and tradition, an aspect that is deeeply ingrained into the bamboo culture. We bambooites are a distinct subset of the flyfishing world. I really don't care if someone uses one of my tapers or not, I posted them myself and the couple of others, the posters were kind enough to ask permission first. All in all this is a group with vastly more integrity than I have seen elswhere in my travels. Where would you be if Wayne pitched a fit every time someone copped one of his tapers? His generosity with all information is perhaps equaled elswhere but certainly not surpassed. As far as the post that got me to tapping the keys, it sounds like a lawyers argument, as far removed from the bamboo zen as you can get.A.J. From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Tapers & signaturesDate: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 04:05:41 -0400 Here is something to confuse the issue a little more.Is taper really some ones to claim?After all what is a taper? Its a sequence of Dimensions.Last I heard it was pretty hard to patent a dimension.If the only person who could make a 16" tire had a patent on 16", nothing would be allowed to be 16" and certainly not another tire. What I'm saying is you can patent the tire,but you can't patent 16 inches. Now lets look at the taper itself (not a rod taper) just a taper. The inventor of a certain rod taper didn't invent the idea of taper. Or for that matter didn't invent the idea of a fishing rod either. With that said: If I decide to make 16" tires for a living, do I have to pay my respects to Firestone and Michellin just because they made 16" tires before me.Lets be realistic here, We are making fishing rods. Not curing Diseases and making peace treaties. I just invented a taperI'll cover the rest of the dimensions left(those that have not been used yet) during the next year.LOL So if you come up with a taper within the next year , make sure you check with me, just incase I have written it down already. LOLDoesn't that sound funny? couldn't a person do this?Tony Miller _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Mon Jul 30 08:23:07 2001 f6UDN6Z07041 0400 Subject: Re: A RIVER RUNS THROUGH IT. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I was fallowing the thread on the movie a river runs through it, Walt'sHexagraph rods were the rods used in the casting scenes. Here is a smallclip from the "Island Park News" Perhaps Walton Powell's best known exploitin recent times concerned his involvement with the production of the 1992motion picture, "A River Runs Through It." The production team, includingdirector Robert Redford, had Powell recondition several vintage wood flyrods for use during the filming. (check credits at end of movie)Once production began, it was discovered that the old style silk lines wouldnot show up on film, and the old rods could not cast contemporary lines. Themovie people called in a panic, hoping that Powell could save the day.At the time, Powell was working with the then-experimental Hexagraphgraphite rod concept which used modern materials assembled in thetraditional style of bamboo rods. Walt had a brainstorm and went toCollier's Hardware in downtown Chico. He purchased an assortment of paintsand stains, and applied them to the graphite so that it would look likeauthentic bamboo cane. Having met Walt in the 80"s at the National Fly Fishing Show in Boston, Ma.We had many talks about fine rods and rod making over the years. Walt feltas I do that the art of rod making could include any and all materialssuited to the making of fine rods. Remember that at one time bamboo wasnewto the market. The reason that I am part of this list is because the blanksare made in a traditional manner, six segments and bind. Before you guysband together and come to Maine to burn me and my shop just rememberhowmany new materials and tools you are using to produce your cane rods. Itruly believe that this carbon fiber material is the new bench mark inmaterials for fine fly fishing rods, it also allows you to make them in truerod making process. With this blank it will be possible to have a workingrod in one hundred years and not a wall hanger and the maintence profile isnext to nil, don't have to worry about moister. Just one maker's thought.P.S. we are in the process of taking line short of cane and flamed cane toadd to the graphite book, no need for paint, can't wait for the patternrights to end, take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker Normal0DocumentEmail I =wasfallowing the thread on the movie a river runs through it, Walt=92s =Hexagraph =A0rods were the rods used in the =castingscenes. Here is a small clip from the =93Island Park =News=94 PerhapsWalton Powell's best known exploit in recent times concerned his =involvementwith the production of the 1992 motion picture, =93A River Runs Through =It.=94 Theproduction team, including director Robert Redford, had Powell =reconditionseveral vintage wood fly rods for use during the filming. (check =credits atend of movie) Once production began, it was discovered =thatthe old style silk lines would not show up on film, and the old rods =could notcast contemporary lines. The movie people called in a panic, hoping that =Powellcould save the day. At thetime, Powell was working with the then-experimental Hexagraph graphite =rodconcept which used modern materials assembled in the traditional style =ofbamboo rods. Walt had a brainstorm and went to Collier's Hardware in =downtownChico. He purchased an assortment of paints and stains, and applied them =to thegraphite so that it would look like authentic bamboo =cane. Havingmet Walt in the 80=94s at the National Fly Fishing Show in Boston, Ma. =We hadmany talks about fine rods and rod making over the years. Walt felt as I =dothat the art of rod making could include any and all materials suited to =themaking of fine rods. Remember that at one time bamboo was new to the =market.The reason that I am part of this list is because the blanks are made in =a traditionalmanner, six segments and bind. Before you guys band together and come to=Maineto burn me and my shop just remember how many new materials and tools =you areusing to produce your cane rods. I truly believe that this carbon fibermaterial is the new bench mark in materials for fine fly fishing rods, =it alsoallows you to make them in true rod making process. With this blank it =will be possibleto have a working rod in one hundred years and not a wall hanger and the =maintence profile is next to nil, don=92t have to worry =about moister.Just one maker=92s thought. P.S. we are in the process of taking line =short ofcane and flamed cane to add to the graphite book, no need for paint, =can=92t wait =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =Signature" Upstream =Always, Tim Doughty Rodmaker =A0 from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Jul 30 08:25:38 2001 f6UDPaZ07206 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:25:36 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:20:08 -0400 Subject: RE: Get a Spine! This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I saw that comment in your post, Marty! But I have moved on to worms. MynewDickerson 8015 Guide (one I just made not purchased) should have thebackbone to cast one!...Andy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Get a Spine! Every culm of bamboo has a "spine", "spline" or stiff side. On a culm it islocated in relation to where the predominate winds are blowing at theplantation. If every Culm has a stiff side every rod does to. No big dealthough because I think a rod is supposed to cast a line that carries a fly(or kernel of corn in Andy's case) and catches a fish. This is what it's allabout. Marty Ray Gould wrote: It's time for me to weigh in on this one. There is a big difference between"should have no spine" and the reality of the fact that most do have a"spine". Almost every rod section I've tested does have a spine, sometimesvery pronounced. There's quite a thorough discussion about this in LetcherLambuth's book " The Angler's Workshop. There you'll find his thinking as towhy it is true and how to "synchronize" (I love that term) a rod.Ray ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Get a Spine!Hi all, When it comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being aChiropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg.132. "Unlike modern materials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable"spine" or stiffer plane of bending." I have my own personal thoughts onthis matter and would like to know what other Rodmakers think. Does abamboorod have a spine? Does a culm have a spine? If a culm has a spine should webe looking to identify it so we could use those strips strategically in arod? So lets hear it, Adam Vigil I saw that comment in your post, moved on to worms. My new Dickerson purchased) should have the backbone to cast one!...Andy -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu noneSent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:20 Gould; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Get a Spine!Every culm of bamboo has a "spine","spline" or stiff side. On a culm it is located in relation to where the predominate winds are blowing at the plantation. If every Culm has a stiff side every rod does to. No big deal though because I think a rod is supposed to cast a line that carries a fly (or kernel of corn in Andy's case) and catches a fish. This is what it's all about. Marty Ray Gould wrote: It's time for me to weigh in on this one. There is a big difference between "should have no spine" and the reality of the fact that most do have a "spine". Almost every rod section I've tested does have a spine, sometimes very pronounced. There's quite a thorough discussion about this in Letcher Lambuth's book " The Angler's Workshop. There you'll find his thinking as to why it is true and how to "synchronize" (I love that term) a rod.Ray ----- Original Message -----From: Adam Vigil Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:31 PMSubject: Get a comes to spines I take a personal interest. Being a Chiropractic Doctor and all. So when Bob Milward in his book states on pg. 132. "Unlike modernmaterials, a bamboo rod should have no detectable "spine" or stiffer plane of have my own personal thoughts on this matter and would like to know what other Rodmakers think. Does a bamboo rod have a spine? Does a culm have aspine? If a culm has a spine should we be looking to identify it so we could use Vigil from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Jul 30 08:47:21 2001 f6UDlKZ08340 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:47:43 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:43:25 -0400 Subject: RE: Get a Spine! I agree that with all dimensions being perfectly equal, and all strips beingperfectly straight, a spine could be caused by variance of the strength ornumbers of power fibers from strip to strip. However, I think a spine ismost obvious when straightening has not been adequately done. This iswhereI still have the most trouble in rodmaking. Both straightening individualstrips at nodes and long sweeping bends in the strip, and straighteningfinal glued up sections. Maybe it's a patience thing, or not being sure howmuch I can heat or bed without damaging the bamboo and therefore being toocautious. Anyway, I think that once the strips are bound together, each strip in theglued up section retains different tendencies. The net result of theseforces keeps the piece from being perfectly straight and that is enough toresult in the equivalent of a spine. I suggest that inadequate straighteningis a bigger factor than what part of the culm a strip came from. Of course Ifreely admit I am no expert. Andy from atlflyfishing@mindspring.com Mon Jul 30 09:24:13 2001 f6UEOCZ11019 Subject: World Importers PresentsA This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 1994epform20Make plans now to attend our next concert, "A Tribute to Mozart," on June11. Director Michael Rauh steps down from the podium to perform as ourfeatured harpsichord soloist.epform40Symphony No. 9 Dmitri ShostakovichEight Folk Songs Anatol LiADOVRomeo & Juliet Peter Ilich TSchaikovskyepbord10Wide World ImportersInteroffice Memo Re: Yearly Sales epbord20A Timeline for ClocksEMBED MSDraw \* mergeformat14th century15th century16th century17th century19th century20thcenturyepbull10 and epbull20Precious stonesDiamondRuby and sapphire (forms of corundum)EmeraldSemiprecious stonesAmethystAquamarineGarnetJadeMoonstoneOpalepstyl10Tour Details: You arrive in Sydney at 7 P.> from jvswan@earthlink.net MonJul 30 12:46:25 2001 f6UHkOZ23462 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Richard S. Pettepher Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the listreceived emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him, andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it looks likehis messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessedup that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch of codegarbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling something aswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, but Ihaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize fortaking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I reallydon't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exefile attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 12:54:02 2001 f6UHs0Z23982 Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher I've been getting them and no responses to my emails as well. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Richard S. Pettepher Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the listreceived emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him,andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it lookslikehis messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessedup that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch ofcodegarbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling somethingaswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, butIhaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize fortaking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I reallydon't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exefile attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Jul 30 12:55:53 2001 f6UHtqZ24263 Subject: Re: Jason This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Anyone receiving these emails Jason is referring to.Delete them right away. My Nortin anti- virus caught them and identified =them as a virus.My Nortin virus protect is great. I have never got a virus yet.Tony Miller Anyone receiving these emails Jason is= to.Delete them right away. My Nortin anti-= caught them and identified them as a virus.My Nortin virus protect is great. I have= a virus yet.Tony Miller from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jul 30 13:20:15 2001 f6UIKEZ26125 LAA25489; LAA00628; f6UIKB016713; (5.5.2650.21) "'jvswan@earthlink.net'" Subject: RE: Richard S. Pettepher that his message contained a virus. Ran a virus scan and found nothing, thenchecked with the computer people here at work and they told me that pandaantivirus had found it if in the message and deleted it. they suggested thatyou run a worm scan (sircam virus). have received this message 3 timesthis morning and they all came from the list server. Systems people saidsomebody on the list is infected and the virus is mailing itself out toeverybody on his/hers email list. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:45 AM Subject: Richard S. Pettepher Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the listreceived emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him,andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it looks likehis messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessedup that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch ofcodegarbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling something aswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, but Ihaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize fortaking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I reallydon't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exefile attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan from iank@ts.co.nz Mon Jul 30 13:31:50 2001 f6UIVmZ26965 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:32:44 +1200 "Rodmakers Info" Subject: Re: A RIVER RUNS THROUGH IT. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Tim, There is an Australian rodmaker whose rods are in great demand from the =gamefishing community ( read this as meaning they are very very = There are some pluses in this technique in that it combines the strength =and consistancy of the modern material with the greater accuracy in =building and more robust rod that traditional rodbuilding techniques =provide. It may not be traditional but does eliminate things like nodes = Now, if I knew where to get the material , and had some tapers to start =with ......? Ian K Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:25 AMSubject: Re: A RIVER RUNS THROUGH IT. I was fallowing the thread on the movie a river runs through it, =Walt's Hexagraph rods were the rods used in the casting scenes. Here is =a small clip from the "Island Park News" Perhaps Walton Powell's best =known exploit in recent times concerned his involvement with the =production of the 1992 motion picture, "A River Runs Through It." The =production team, including director Robert Redford, had Powell =recondition several vintage wood fly rods for use during the filming. =(check credits at end of movie) Once production began, it was discovered that the old style silk lines =would not show up on film, and the old rods could not cast contemporary =lines. The movie people called in a panic, hoping that Powell could save = At the time, Powell was working with the then-experimental Hexagraph =graphite rod concept which used modern materials assembled in the =traditional style of bamboo rods. Walt had a brainstorm and went to =Collier's Hardware in downtown Chico. He purchased an assortment of =paints and stains, and applied them to the graphite so that it would =look like authentic bamboo cane. Having met Walt in the 80"s at the National Fly Fishing Show in =Boston, Ma. We had many talks about fine rods and rod making over the =years. Walt felt as I do that the art of rod making could include any =and all materials suited to the making of fine rods. Remember that at =one time bamboo was new to the market. The reason that I am part of this =list is because the blanks are made in a traditional manner, six =segments and bind. Before you guys band together and come to Maine to =burn me and my shop just remember how many new materials and tools you =are using to produce your cane rods. I truly believe that this carbon =fiber material is the new bench mark in materials for fine fly fishing =rods, it also allows you to make them in true rod making process. With =this blank it will be possible to have a working rod in one hundred =years and not a wall hanger and the maintence profile is next to nil, =don't have to worry about moister. Just one maker's thought. P.S. we are =in the process of taking line short of cane and flamed cane to add to =the graphite book, no need for paint, can't wait for the pattern rights =to end, take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim Doughty Rodmaker Normal0DocumentEmail @font-face {font-family: Arial Unicode MS;}@font-face {font-family: \@Arial Unicode MS;}@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; =mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper- source: 0; }P.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal {FONT- SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso- style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN- LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: ="Arial Unicode MS"; mso- pagination: widow-orphan; mso-margin-top-alt: =auto; mso-margin-bottom- alt: auto}SPAN.EmailStyle15 {COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal- compose; mso-ansi-font-size: =10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso- hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 {page: Section1} Tim, There is an Australian rodmaker whose= great demand from the gamefishing community ( read this as meaning they = very expensive) who makes rods using this technique. There are some pluses in this technique= combines the strength and consistancy of the modern material with the = accuracy in building and more robust rod that traditional rodbuilding = provide. It may not be traditional but does eliminate things like nodes = Now, if I knew where to get the = some tapers to start with ......? Ian K----- Original Message ----- Tim Doughty Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: A RIVER RUNS = IT. fallowing the thread on the movie a river runs through it, = used = casting scenes. Here is a small clip from the =“Island = Perhaps Walton Powell's = exploit in recent times concerned his involvement with the production = 1992 motion picture, “A River Runs Through It.” The = director Robert Redford, had Powell recondition several vintage wood = movie)Once = began, it was discovered that the old style silk lines would not show = film, and the old rods could not cast contemporary lines. The movie = called in a panic, hoping that Powell could save the day. = time, Powell was working with the then-experimental Hexagraph graphite = concept which used modern materials assembled in the traditional style = bamboo rods. Walt had a brainstorm and went to Collier's Hardware in = Chico. He purchased an assortment of paints and stains, and applied = cane. met Walt in the 80”s at the National Fly Fishing Show in Boston, = many talks about fine rods and rod making over the years. Walt felt as = that the art of rod making could include any and all materials suited = making of fine rods. Remember that at one time bamboo was new to the = The reason that I am part of this list is because the blanks are made = traditional manner, six segments and bind. Before you guys band = come to Maine to burn me and my shop just remember how many new = tools you are using to produce your cane rods. I truly believe that = carbon fiber material is the new bench mark in materials for fine fly = rods, it also allows you to make them in true rod making process. With = blank it will be possible to have a working rod in one hundred years = wall hanger and the maintence profile is next to nil, don’t have to = moister. Just one maker’s thought. P.S. we are in the process of = short of cane and flamed cane to add to the graphite book, no need for = can’t wait for the pattern rights to end, take care, =Tim. =A0AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail =Signature" Upstream =Always, TimDoughtyRodmaker from lblan@provide.net Mon Jul 30 13:33:02 2001 f6UIX2Z27172 Subject: RE: Richard S. Pettepher http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm I believe that Richard is a listmember, who has possibly contracted theSirCam worm. Notice that each of his notes contains an attached file, in two cases I've noticed, they are windows system files. I sent Richard a note, anyonewho is using Outlook or something similar should go to an antivirus site, read up on SirCam and take appropriate action. Larry Blan sent a reply back to him to take me off his email list and got a messagebackthat his message contained a virus. Ran a virus scan and found nothing, thenchecked with the computer people here at work and they told me that pandaantivirushad found it if in the message and deleted it. they suggested that you run aworm scan (sircam virus). have received this message 3 times this morningandthey all came from the list server. Systems people said somebody on the listis infected and the virus is mailing it Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:45 AM Subject: Richard S. Pettepher Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the list received emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him,andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it looks like his messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessed up that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch ofcode garbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling somethingaswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, butIhaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize for taking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I really don't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exe file attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan http://www.provide.net from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jul 30 13:41:27 2001 f6UIfQZ27907 f6UIfOZ29169 Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher Same here.No reply yet.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jason Swan wrote: Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the listreceived emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him,andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it looks likehis messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessedup that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch ofcodegarbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling something aswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, but Ihaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize fortaking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I reallydon't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exefile attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 30 13:47:51 2001 f6UIloZ28590 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Some questions about this latest virus(NRM) Hi all,got a question I have about 10 messages from this Richard guy whichIdeleted except 2 which I opened. I ran Norton update and a scan showednothing.I went to my list of virus I am protected against and didn't see this SIRCAMonelisted. Is it called something else in the Norton protection list?? Shawn from splitcane@t-online.de Mon Jul 30 13:51:56 2001 f6UIptZ29087 fwd05.sul.t-online.com Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher Jason Swan schrieb: Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the listreceived emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him,andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it looks likehis messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessedup that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch ofcodegarbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling something aswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, but Ihaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize fortaking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I reallydon't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exefile attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan got the same trash. I'ld say R.S.P is in trouble with some virusMichael Mueller from caneman@clnk.com Mon Jul 30 13:52:10 2001 f6UIqAZ29173 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher I have received 4 from him, I think. one message was just garble, the othercontained attachements, so I deleted them immediately. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Richard S. Pettepher Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the listreceived emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him,andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it lookslikehis messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessedup that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch ofcodegarbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling somethingaswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, butIhaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize fortaking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I reallydon't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exefile attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan from cotner@novagate.com Mon Jul 30 14:07:33 2001 f6UJ7XZ00500 f6UJ7Hf16478; Subject: Re: Some questions about this latest virus(NRM) Shawn - Symantec calls it SirCam; it's also known as Sirc, which I picked upover the week-end (my first and hopefully last!). This tells you how toremove it. I ran the tool and it worked well.Good luck!Regards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi all,got a question I have about 10 messages from this Richard guywhich Ideleted except 2 which I opened. I ran Norton update and a scan showednothing.I went to my list of virus I am protected against and didn't see this SIRCAMonelisted. Is it called something else in the Norton protection list?? Shawn from cotner@novagate.com Mon Jul 30 14:19:26 2001 f6UJJPZ01598 Subject: Re: Some questions about this latest virus(NRM) Sorry - forgot the link in my previous reply:http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@mm.removal.tool.htmlRegards,Roger CotnerGrand Haven, Michigan Shawn Pineo wrote: Hi all,got a question I have about 10 messages from this Richard guywhich Ideleted except 2 which I opened. I ran Norton update and a scan showednothing.I went to my list of virus I am protected against and didn't see this SIRCAMonelisted. Is it called something else in the Norton protection list?? Shawn from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Jul 30 14:22:12 2001 f6UJMCZ01949 Subject: Did Every one just receive? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Did the list just receive a post called "along the fault"My virus protect went off again.I don't think this is a list member sending these.The subjects have nothing to do with rodmaking.Tony Miller Did the list just receive a post called = fault"My virus protect went off =again.I don't think this is a list member = these.The subjects have nothing to do rodmaking.TonyMiller from rjwlawed@msn.com Mon Jul 30 14:34:02 2001 f6UJY1Z02925 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:33:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Did Every one just receive? FILETIME=[929F7BC0:01C1192E] ya ijust got it, and all those other goofy ones too!. id didn't open the ="along a fault attatchment yet. i think i'm going to just delete it. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Did Every one just receive? Did the list just receive a post called "along the fault"My virus protect went off again.I don't think this is a list member sending these.The subjects have nothing to do with rodmaking.Tony Miller ya ijust got it, and all those other goof=y ones too!. id didn't open the "along a fault attatchment yet. i think i= Subject: Did Every one just po=st called "along the fault" =My virus protect went off again. I don't think this is a list member sending these. The subjects have nothing to do withrodmakin=g. TonyMiller from homes-sold@home.com Mon Jul 30 14:39:03 2001 f6UJd2Z03805 femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:38:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Did Every one just receive? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I've recieved 6 virus e-mails with different subject names this morning, =all from the same person. Didn't open any just trashed them.Don Subject: Did Every one just receive? Did the list just receive a post called "along the fault"My virus protect went off again.I don't think this is a list member sending these.The subjects have nothing to do with rodmaking.Tony Miller I've recieved 6 virus e-mails with = trashed them.Don From:Tony =Miller Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 12:21 PMSubject: Did Every one just receive? Did the list just receive a post called = fault"My virus protect went off =again.I don't think thisis a list member = these.The subjects have nothing to do rodmaking.TonyMiller from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Jul 30 14:41:12 2001 f6UJfBZ04320 (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA07040; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:41:09 - ETAuAhUApoh10bU88NC7mYmO2g5NplST6XMCFQCCELC+VYsrz0FEqL3+0EwCtAy7aw== Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher 2001 13:50:51 -0500 I have been getting them all morning. Just ran REVIEW RODMAKERS withall the members and there is no Richard Pettepher or email address thathe was listed at. He must have got in and picked up all our addresses. Jerry Young from homes-sold@home.com Mon Jul 30 15:13:36 2001 f6UKDZZ08748 femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:13:34 -0700 Subject: You are sending out one virus after another This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Richard S. Pettepher, I have recieved 7 e-mails, all different subjects, = from you this morning, all have a virus. Anyone on the list know =Richard?Don Richard S. Pettepher, I have recieved 7= the list know Richard?Don from paul@lifeware.com Mon Jul 30 15:13:54 2001 f6UKDrZ08789 3B56ECC60021F4F7; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:08:30 -0700 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:08:25 +0000 Subject: RE: Richard S. Pettepher / Virus! Richard Just received several e-mail from you, and one with an attachment. Theattachment had a virus called W32.MAGISTER.24876@MM and one calledoB4a395f.exe. These viruses are running ramped on my computer. It's got itpretty screwed up. Just thought I'd let you know. Paul -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher I've been getting them and no responses to my emails as well. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Richard S. Pettepher Hi list, I'm sorry to take up list time with this, but has anyone else on the listreceived emails from this guy? I have received several emails from him,andthe header indicates that the sender is the list address. So, it lookslikehis messages are coming through the list. Most of them have been somessedup that they have shown the header in the message, and had a bunch ofcodegarbage in the body. Does anyone know what is going on? It looks like he is selling somethingaswell as sending out messed up emails. I tried sending a reply to him, butIhaven't heard back from him yet. So, are these messages going to the whole list? If not, I apologize fortaking up e-space. If so, does anyone know how to contact him? I reallydon't want to get his emails anymore. The last one had some sort of .exefile attached. Thanks in advance, Jason Swan from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jul 30 15:37:14 2001 f6UKbDZ16204 Subject: Wrapping question Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 15:40:26 2001 f6UKePZ17679 NAA16779 Subject: review rodmakers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Jul 30 15:41:15 2001 f6UKfEZ18021 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:41:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Wrapping question Harry,Green wraps tipped red have for me always been the perfectcombination.......regards.......Paul Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Jul 30 15:54:21 2001 f6UKsGZ22512 Subject: resorcinol This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I glued up 2 new sections in a repair job to match an old rod for a guy.The old rod has purple/wine colored glue lines. So, after glueing andsanding etc, I have no glue lines showing. I have never used resorcinolbefore and the dried glue is of that color, but I don't have any winecolored lines between the splines. Is anyone out there using resorcinol? If so, what are your experiences? Thanks in advance, John K. I glued up 2 new sections in a = color, but I don't have any wine colored lines between the =splines. Thanks in advance, John K. from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 30 16:00:15 2001 f6UL0DZ24462 30Jul 2001 17:00:32 -0400 Subject: VIRUS #2 from another listmember --=====================_17244154==_.ALT Guys:Got a virus laden attachment from a listmember with the body: "I send this file for your approval. blah blah blah."This is the stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is a speyrod taper excel document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask yourselves what the heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for free. I run it in sponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus has gone through yet.)Bob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297-- =====================_17244154==_.ALT Guys:Got a virus laden attachment from a listmember with the body: "Isend this file for your approval. blah blah blah."This is the stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is aspeyrod taper excel document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask yourselves whatthe heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for free. I run it insponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus has gonethrough yet.)Bob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_17244154==_.ALT-- from oandc@msn.com Mon Jul 30 16:04:34 2001 f6UL4XZ25967 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:04:25 -0700 Subject: Sharpening FILETIME=[370342D0:01C1193B] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. A friend recently sent me an email inviting me to check out the "Scary =Sharp System" for sharpening plane blades. He stated he preferred it to =using water stones, of which he has several. Accordingly, I ran a search = http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM#condensedI'm also curious if any on the list has used this method and there =opinion of it.Wayne Gentleman, A friend recently sent me an email = check out the "Scary Sharp System" for sharpening plane blades. He = preferred it to using water stones, of which he has several. = a search for it and came up with the following URL. I thought I might = it.http://www.shavings.=net/SCARY.HTM#condensed this method and there opinion of it.Wayne from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 16:05:55 2001 f6UL5sZ26540 OAA17695; Subject: Re: VIRUS #2 from another listmember This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Bob, where can I get Eudora 5? Best regards, Adam Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:59 PMSubject: VIRUS #2 from another listmember Guys:Got a virus laden attachment from a listmember with the body: "I send =this file for your approval. blah blah blah."This is the stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is a =speyrod taper excel document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask yourselves =what the heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for free. I run =it in sponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus has gone =through yet.)Bob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com Bob, where can I get Eudora5? Best regards, Adam ----- Original Message ----- Maulucci Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 =1:59 PMSubject: VIRUS #2 from listmemberGuys:Got a virus laden attachment from alistmember = the body: "I send this file for your approval. blah blah = stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is a speyrod = document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask = yourselves what the heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for = run it in sponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus = through yet.)Bob from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 16:18:55 2001 f6ULIrZ00557 Subject: Re: VIRUS #2 from another listmember This is a multi-part message in MIME format. FYI: I'm using outlook for work mail and outlook express for personal =email on several machines and have never been hit by a virus. I do have =to take a couple minutes when I upgrade to disable the features that = Paul Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 4:59 PMSubject: VIRUS #2 from another listmember Guys:Got a virus laden attachment from a listmember with the body: "I send =this file for your approval. blah blah blah."This is the stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is a =speyrod taper excel document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask yourselves =what the heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for free. I run =it in sponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus has gone =through yet.)Bob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com FYI: I'm using outlook for work mail = express for personal email on several machines and have never been hit = virus. I do have to take a couple minutes when I upgrade to disable the = that make outlook vulnerable. I've used Eudora and found it worth = paid for it. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Maulucci Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 =4:59 PMSubject: VIRUS #2 from listmemberGuys:Got a virus laden attachment from alistmember = the body: "I send this file for your approval. blah blah = stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is a speyrod = document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask = yourselves what the heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for = run it in sponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus = through yet.)Bob from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 30 16:42:13 2001 f6ULg7Z07726 Subject: Re: VIRUS #2 from another listmember --=====================_19761434==_.ALT Hi Adam:Eudora.com, of course.The free sponsored mode is fine. I never even notice the ads anymore. They are tiny.Best regards,Bob At 02:20 PM 7/30/2001 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:Bob, where can I get Eudora 5? Best regards, Adam----- Original Message -----From: Bob Maulucci Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:59 PMSubject: VIRUS #2 from another listmember Guys:Got a virus laden attachment from a listmember with the body: "I send this file for your approval. blah blah blah."This is the stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is a speyrod taper excel document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask yourselves what the heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for free. I run it in sponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus has gone through yet.)Bob Bob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_19761434==_.ALT Hi Adam:Eudora.com, of course.The free sponsored mode is fine. I never even notice the ads anymore.They are tiny.Best regards,BobAt 02:20 PM 7/30/2001 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:Bob, where can I get Eudora 5? Best regards, Adam----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Maulucci Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:59 PMSubject: VIRUS #2 from another listmemberGuys:Got a virus laden attachment from a listmember with the body: "I sendthis file for your approval. blah blah blah."This is the stock SirCam virus message. The virus laden document is aspeyrod taper excel document.Be Careful out there guys. And this is a good time to ask yourselves whatthe heck you are using Outlook for. (Get Eudora 5 for free. I run it insponsored mode with the free Innoculate Program. NO virus has gone throughyet.)BobBob Mauluccibob@downandacross.com716.836.8297 --=====================_19761434==_.ALT-- from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 30 16:46:55 2001 f6ULkrZ09212 Subject: Re: VIRUS #2 from another listmember --=====================_20048584==_.ALT HI Paul:You don't like Eudora? What am I missing out on? I apologize if my post was snotty, but from here it seems that Outlook is always the major vehicle for spreading e- mail viruses. I am glad you have no problems.BOB At 05:18 PM 7/30/2001 -0400, you wrote:FYI: I'm using outlook for work mail and outlook express for personal email on several machines and have never been hit by a virus. I do have to take a couple minutes when I upgrade to disable the features that make outlook vulnerable. I've used Eudora and found it worth exactly what I paid for it. --=====================_20048584==_.ALT HI Paul:You don't like Eudora? What am I missing out on? I apologize if my postwas snotty, but from here it seems that Outlook is always the majorvehicle for spreading e- mail viruses. I am glad you have no problems. BOBAt 05:18 PM 7/30/2001 -0400, you wrote:FYI: I'musing outlook for work mail and outlook express for personal email onseveral machines and have never been hit by a virus. I do have to take acouple minutes when I upgrade to disable the features that make outlookvulnerable. I've used Eudora and found it worth exactlywhat I paid for it. --=====================_20048584==_.ALT-- from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jul 30 17:00:15 2001 f6UM0EZ12920 RAA27360 PAA13340 0700 (5.5.2650.21) Subject: virus some on the list is infecting me today. I have received the same virus(ms/disembowelment) 3 times to day. if you receive anything from "RichardPette..." delete with out opening it Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from paul@lifeware.com Mon Jul 30 17:15:33 2001 f6UMFWZ17028 3B5CAB700016FAF7; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:09:44 -0700 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 22:09:46 +0000 Subject: RE: Did Every one just receive? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm not sure who sent it, but my computer has eaten up with bugs andvirusestoday. I think it originated form Richard S. Pettepher. Paul -----Original Message----- Subject: Did Every one just receive? Did the list just receive a post called "along the fault"My virus protect went off again.I don't think this is a list member sending these.The subjects have nothing to do with rodmaking.Tony Miller 0DocumentEmail I&=#8217;m notsure who sent it, but my computer has eaten up with bugs and viruses =today. Ithink it originated form Richard S. =Pettepher. Pa=ul -----OriginalMessage-----From: =owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Tony MillerSent: Monday, July 30, =2001 2:21PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Did Every one =justreceive? Did the list just receive a post called "along thefault" My virus protect went off again. I don't think this is a list member sending =these. The subjects have nothing to do with =rodmaking. Tony Miller from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Jul 30 17:24:16 2001 f6UMOEZ19610 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Virus Hi folks, do Yourself a favour an get a Mac:-) never bee hit by any virus:-) danny from cheiron@earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 17:26:12 2001 f6UMQBZ20272 PAA29420 Subject: partridge blank thanks Thanks to everyone for the comments about the Partridge blank, Iappreciate the time and help.I went and ordered a Hardy Perfection 7'6'' instead anyone have anyexperiences with this rig? What line does it like? a side question-how are clear wraps done? thanks from anglport@con2.com Mon Jul 30 17:28:28 2001 f6UMSRZ21001 Subject: About this dopey virus This is a multi-part message in MIME format. All,I just got the scare of my life with this thing (I'm running Outlook =Express for the first time on a new computer. I USED to use Eudora, Bob =but now I'm "improved") and though I got all the messages, I ran the = I also never got any warning from my Norton Antivirus that I was = the "fix" says I don't HAVE it what's going on?Any ideas?Art Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:13 PMSubject: RE: Did Every one just receive? I'm not sure who sent it, but my computer has eaten up with bugs and =viruses today. I think it originated form Richard S. Pettepher. Paul -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: Did Every one just receive? Did the list just receive a post called "along the fault" My virus protect went off again. I don't think this is a list member sending these. The subjects have nothing to do with rodmaking. Tony Miller 0DocumentEmail @font-face {font-family: Tahoma;}@font-face {font-family: Garamond MT;}@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; =mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso- pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig {FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 {COLOR: navy; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: =10.0pt; mso- ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 {page: Section1} All, scare = with this thing (I'm running Outlook Express for the first time on a new = computer. I USED to use Eudora, Bob but now I'm "improved") and though I = the messages, I ran the SirCamFix that Norton makes available and I = the bug! any = from my Norton Antivirus that I was sent anything! If I got what you all = on? Art ----- Original Message ----- Paul = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 =6:13 PMSubject: RE: Did Every one just = receive? not sure who sent it, but my computer has eaten up with bugs and = Pettepher. Paul Message-----From: =owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= Behalf Of Tony MillerSent: Monday, July 30, 2001 = receive? just receive a post called "along the fault"My= protect went off again.I = think this is a list member sending these. have nothing to do with rodmaking. Miller from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jul 30 17:32:38 2001 f6UMWcZ22358 (63.228.44.229) Subject: Re: Wrapping question Harry,On a lightly flamed rod I LIKE antique gold and also amber. I then tip withJasper. They do not overpower the rest of the rod. They also match thebamboo. No contrast here. They match! Subtle! No burgundy for me! Toogaudy!I f I went anywhere else it would be with a lighter color yet. I also wantmy reel seat wood to match the rod. I can usually get this job done withburl maple. Not darker than the bamboo either. Just goes to show you we allhave different ideas.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Wrapping question Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jul 30 17:34:21 2001 f6UMYKZ22957 Subject: Re: resorcinol In a message dated 7/30/1 8:54:48 PM, mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com writes: Resourcinol tends to darken with age. Make sure you have removed all traces of the glue from the rodshaft, or the rod will get measles in a couple months. If you heat the sections a bit you will speed things up, but I don't know what the optimum temperature is. If you go too high, the glue will turn black. If I were trying it, I think I would go to about 150 F and see whathappens. The good news is the glue is practically indestructible, and you would have to virtually incinerate the sections to destroy it. from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Mon Jul 30 17:53:20 2001 f6UMrJZ28218 Subject: Re: Wrapping question Harry, I tried some test wraps with antique gold & didn't like it either.Might look nice with a color preserver, but I like the penetration ofvarnish alone. My favorite wrap colors are tan tipped with dark brown or black, and thePearsall's "classic chestnut". The tan becomes a clear brownish-orange whensoaked in varnish on a flamed rod. Tom -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 3:38 PMSubject: Wrapping question Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from iank@ts.co.nz Mon Jul 30 17:57:27 2001 f6UMvPZ29472 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:01:31 +1200 Subject: Re: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virus alert days ago on this virus. I have seen another warning that this virus may resist the downloading ofthe fix programme from this site and it is wise to make a copy of the fixonto a disk so that if you do get it you can clean your computer by loadingthe fix from your floppy drive. Incidentally Tony suggests it may be possible to get this virus withoutopening the attachment. Like others I have received the offending emails ,but have not opened the attachments. I have just checked my computer withthe fix programme from my floppy drive and it did not indicate any virus.( I know I should not have said that , it is inviting the worst) Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virus alert Gentle readers,you've prob all heard and in some cases already experienced the SirCamvirus.I've spent most of the day flushing out and reinstalling systems as aresult of this little bugger and I really can't stress enough it'sseriousness.The big problem although there are quite a few like it will hijack any exefile that's executed, fill the HDD with the Win OS on it or delete itoutright is you don't actually have to open an attachement to get it.I only just inspected my PC to see if SirCam was present which it wasn'tthen I just opened my email and saw two messages with attachementsarrive.One was from Uganda and the other from Poland. I noticed these because Idon't know anybody in Uganda nor Poland.Sure enough they both had attachments.One had the same body Max's had being the file is for me to comment ontheother was one I haven't seen in the bulletens asking me to review myorder.I deleted them obviously without reading the attachments, flushed therecycle bin etc and just to see I re ran the below program to find andremove SirCam.To my surprise both cases of the virus were still resident on my PC ANDmyregistry file had been modified.I'll make the point again, I didn't open the attachement. I STRONGLY recomend getting the below prog and having it on hand andcheck Due to the risks of improper removal, antivirus vendor Symantec hascreateda free utility that makes the necessary modifications and removes anyinstances of the virus. It can be downloaded from: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/FixSirc.com. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Having been erased,The document you're seekingMust now be retyped. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from paul@lifeware.com Mon Jul 30 17:57:29 2001 f6UMvTZ29491 3B56ECC600224E83; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:51:08 -0700 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 22:51:01 +0000 Subject: RE: About this dopey virus This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Art The Viruses that I got today from that set of e-mails is calledW32.Magistr.24876@mm It's very similarto theSirCam virus, but no the same thing. Norton caught this virus on mycomputer, thankfully. You may want to update your computer with thenewestvirus definitions from Norton, if you haven't done so. If your Norton doesn't have the definition for this virus, it won't pick it up. And it's prettynasty. Here is the link to learn more about it, and there is also a link onthat page to download the latest virus definitions. Look on the right sideof the page. Hope this helps. http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.magistr.24876@mm.html Paul York -----Original Message----- Subject: About this dopey virus All,I just got the scare of my life with this thing (I'm running OutlookExpress for the first time on a new computer. I USED to use Eudora, Bob butnow I'm "improved") and though I got all the messages, I ran the SirCamFixthat Norton makes available and I don't have the bug!I also never got any warning from my Norton Antivirus that I was sentanything! If I got what you all got, my Norton didn't catch it, and the"fix" says I don't HAVE it what's going on?Any ideas?Art----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Did Every one just receive? I'm not sure who sent it, but my computer has eaten up with bugs andvirusestoday. I think it originated form Richard S. Pettepher. Paul -----Original Message----- Subject: Did Every one just receive? Did the list just receive a post called "along the fault"My virus protect went off again.I don't think this is a list member sending these.The subjects have nothing to do with rodmaking.Tony Miller 0DocumentEmail Art The Viruses that I got today from that set of e-mails =iscalled W32.Magistr.24876@mmIt’s very similar to the SirCam virus, but no the same thing. =Norton caughtthis virus on my computer, thankfully. You may want to update your =computerwith the newest virus definitions from Norton, if you haven’t done =so. If yourNorton doesn’t have the definition for this virus, it won’t =pick it up. And it’spretty nasty. Here is the link to learn more about it, and there is also =a linkon that page to download the latest virus definitions. Look on the right =sideof the page. Hope this helps. http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/v=enc/data/w32.magistr.24876@mm.html Paul York -----OriginalMessage-----From: Art Port Sent: Monday, July 30, =2001 5:27PM flyfish@defnet.comCc: =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: About this dopey=virus All, p;I just got the scare of my life with this thing (I'm running Outlook =Express I'm"improved") and though I got all the messages, I ran the =SirCamFixthat Norton makes available and I don't have the bug! = p;I also never got any warning from my Norton Antivirus that I was sent =anything!If I got what you all got, my Norton didn't catch it, and the ="fix"says I don't HAVE it what's going on? p;Any ideas? Art -----Original Message ----- From: Paul =York = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, July =30, 20016:13 PM Subject: RE:Did Every one just receive? I’m not sure =who sent it,but my computer has eaten up with bugs and viruses today. I think it =originatedform Richard S. Pettepher. Paul -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w=ustl.edu Behalf Of Tony MillerSent: Monday, July 30, =2001 2:21PM Subject: Did Every one =justreceive? Did the list just receive a post called "along thefault" My virus protect went off again. I don't think this is a list member sending =these. The subjects have nothing to do with =rodmaking. Tony Miller from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jul 30 18:04:48 2001 f6UN4lZ01509 Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher Guys, He may have at one time been on the list and the address was in his addressbook. The worm takes existing addresses, attaches them to already sente-mail, and mails them out indiscriminantly. All this poor guy did was openan attachment that allowed himself to be infected. I, too, got one from himthis morning and it did not come through the List as I receive the List as adaily digest. So, DO NOT OPEN ATTACHMENTS from anyone unless you know what theyare, andparticularly not if they are .exe files. If you want to delete the files permanently, and not just send them to theDeleted Items file, or to the Trash Bin, hold Shift, then Delete. You willstill have a record of it on your hard drive but this will be overwritten atsome point, or you can overwrite it yourself with a program called EvidenceEliminator. M-D I have been getting them all morning. Just ran REVIEW RODMAKERS withall the members and there is no Richard Pettepher or email address thathe was listed at. He must have got in and picked up all our addresses. Jerry Young from wiljette@nmia.com Mon Jul 30 18:34:17 2001 f6UNYGZ07276 Subject: Re: partridge blank thanks f6UNYHZ07279 Dennis:White silk is used for clear wraps. Try it, with three coats of spar varnish.The wraps just vanish! Will----- Original Message ----- Subject: partridge blank thanks Thanks to everyone for the comments about the Partridge blank, Iappreciate the time and help.I went and ordered a Hardy Perfection 7'6'' instead anyone have anyexperiences with this rig? What line does it like? a side question-how are clear wraps done? thanks from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Jul 30 19:00:16 2001 f6V00FZ11693 f6V00EZ11669 Subject: Need help with rod ID Got this from another list that I am on.Can anyone help him, You can contact him direct.I got his OK to post his E address, he is inAustraliaThanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Ian Mitchell Ian Mitchell wrote: Hi folks, purchased a 2nd hand cane rod for a smallprice the other day, waswnatingto know if anyone could help identify itsage, weight etc. It is a 9 Foot English Cane rod called a"Black Arrow" Homepage:-http://www.angelfire.com/on/theriverbank from BambooRods@aol.com Mon Jul 30 19:30:48 2001 f6V0UlZ18613 Subject: Taper suggestion I would be interested in the opinions of the list. I am needing a taper for a 7'6" 5 weight. It will be used for pond fishing. Mostly pan fish but an occasional large mouth (some of them very big on these private ponds, 7-8 lbs). TIA Doug Hall from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Jul 30 19:34:38 2001 f6V0YaZ19590 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:34:32 +1000 Subject: Re: Virus FILETIME=[90F24EE0:01C11958] Attaboy Danny! Sean Danny Twang wrote: Hi folks, do Yourself a favour an get a Mac:-) never bee hit by any virus:-) danny from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Jul 30 19:40:37 2001 f6V0eaZ21038 Subject: RE: Taper suggestion Hi Doug, Dickerson's 7613 (the heavier of the tworods from Jack Howell's book) or Dickerson's7614 from the same book. just my opinion,Brad -----Original Message----- BambooRods@aol.com Subject: Taper suggestion I would be interested in the opinions of the list. I am needing a taper fora 7'6" 5 weight. It will be used for pond fishing. Mostly pan fish but anoccasional large mouth (some of them very big on these private ponds, 7- 8lbs). TIA Doug Hall from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jul 30 19:53:14 2001 f6V0rDZ23896 Subject: Re: Taper suggestion rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Doug - A big largemouth is a tall order for a five weight. If you were only talking panfish, I think I would recommend the Garrison 209, or Bill Warra's 7 1/2 that was used for the Grand experiment. With the bass thrown in,some more butt strength is in order. How about the Dickerson 8013? It's an 8 footer. from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon Jul 30 19:59:42 2001 f6V0xfZ25543 Subject: Re: Wrapping question Harry, I just finished a lightly flamed rod with the orange and blackjasper, color preserved and I think it looks pretty clean with the blackTiC snakes and strippers. Took some experimenting to find the rightcolor preserver that best maintained the "gold" shade of the orange, butonce I got that, the orange part of the finished wraps have the samegeneral tone and color of the rod and looks pretty classy, my opinion,of course. Did NOT care for the appearance of the Jasper with justvarnish, nor many of the color preservers I tried. It was a pain to tryto get the wraps with no bleeding and I ended up with a couple smallspots, but the rod's for me, not any customer or anything like that.All that said, I probably wouldn't bother next time, due to the hassleof color preserver, but it did come out looking pretty nice. regards, mac Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jul 30 20:02:05 2001 f6V125Z26234 Subject: Bro. Boyd's Bestowment Thought the rest of you might like to read the accolades bestowed upon oneof our resident denizens, Harry Boyd.Nice work, Harry! http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reports/fishin2001/index.php from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Jul 30 20:13:24 2001 f6V1DNZ28896 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:13:17 -0700 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 01:13:17 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Taper suggestion FILETIME=[FB2DCBE0:01C1195D] Doug: down in the middle of the flyrod. A 6 or 7wt rod might serve your purpose sized tip and made for a 5 wt. line. Don't take a knife to a gun a taper for fish but an private ponds, 7-8 Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 30 20:14:20 2001 f6V1EIZ29210 ;Tue, 31 Jul 2001 01:14:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher Yes and I deleted all of them! Jack from richjez@enteract.com Mon Jul 30 20:28:38 2001 f6V1SbZ02716 Subject: Re: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virusalert --=====================_849039==_.ALT Just checking to make sure Norton got al of these bugged posts. I got 2 that Norton picked up that had attachments. Norton showed a differentvirus with each post. There were other posts from him without attachments. Time to update Norton and check the drives I guess. Rich Jezioro At 05:51 PM 7/30/01, Ian Kearney wrote: days ago on this virus. I have seen another warning that this virus may resist the downloading ofthe fix programme from this site and it is wise to make a copy of the fixonto a disk so that if you do get it you can clean your computer by loadingthe fix from your floppy drive. Incidentally Tony suggests it may be possible to get this virus withoutopening the attachment. Like others I have received the offending emails ,but have not opened the attachments. I have just checked my computerwiththe fix programme from my floppy drive and it did not indicate any virus.( I know I should not have said that , it is inviting the worst) Ian----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:06 AMSubject: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virus alert Gentle readers,you've prob all heard and in some cases already experienced the SirCamvirus.I've spent most of the day flushing out and reinstalling systems as aresult of this little bugger and I really can't stress enough it'sseriousness.The big problem although there are quite a few like it will hijack any exefile that's executed, fill the HDD with the Win OS on it or delete itoutright is you don't actually have to open an attachement to get it.I only just inspected my PC to see if SirCam was present which it wasn'tthen I just opened my email and saw two messages with attachementsarrive.One was from Uganda and the other from Poland. I noticed these becauseIdon't know anybody in Uganda nor Poland.Sure enough they both had attachments.One had the same body Max's had being the file is for me to comment ontheother was one I haven't seen in the bulletens asking me to review myorder.I deleted them obviously without reading the attachments, flushed therecycle bin etc and just to see I re ran the below program to find andremove SirCam.To my surprise both cases of the virus were still resident on my PC ANDmyregistry file had been modified.I'll make the point again, I didn't open the attachement. I STRONGLY recomend getting the below prog and having it on hand andcheck Due to the risks of improper removal, antivirus vendor Symantec hascreateda free utility that makes the necessary modifications and removes anyinstances of the virus. It can be downloaded from: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/FixSirc.com. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Having been erased,The document you're seekingMust now be retyped. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ *________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):> --=====================_849039==_.ALT Just checking to make sure Norton got al of these buggedposts. I got 2 that Norton picked up that had attachments. Norton showeda different virus with each post. There were other posts from him without Time to update Norton and check the drives I guess. Rich Jezioro At 05:51 PM 7/30/01, Ian Kearney wrote: attaching a copy of Tony's not a fewdays ago on this virus. I have seen another warning that this virus may resist the downloadingofthe fix programme from this site and it is wise to make a copy of thefixonto a disk so that if you do get it you can clean your computer byloadingthe fix from your floppy drive. Incidentally Tony suggests it may be possible to get this viruswithoutopening the attachment. Like others I have received the offending emails,but have not opened the attachments. I have just checked my computerwiththe fix programme from my floppy drive and it did not indicate anyvirus.( I know I should not have said that , it is inviting the worst) Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: This is going to be a rough ride. SirCam Serious virusalert SirCamvirus. a it's any exe it it. wasn't arrive. because I on the myorder. the and AND my check hascreated any http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/FixSirc.com. /*************************************************************************/ www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html /*************************************************************************/ *_____________ ___________________) @/ ||/ ____/||_________________________________________ p;/\ ; bsp; --=====================_849039==_.ALT-- from channer@frontier.net Mon Jul 30 21:12:00 2001 f6V2BxZ12309 Subject: Re: Wrapping question Harry;That is a question about personal tastes, and, as you know, few have anytaste. Take me for instance, if left to my own devises, I wrap all myrods in medium brown with darker brown trim, unless a customer just hasto have something different, in which case I sulk and swear for a while,then wrap the rod in whatever awful combination they want.John Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 30 22:02:31 2001 f6V32TZ22440 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:59:22 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Taper suggestion PERFECTIONIST by Paul Young! Delicate enough for the detail work butsurprisinglystronger than it seems. Throws a lot of line too!Shawn BambooRods@aol.com wrote: I would be interested in the opinions of the list. I am needing a taper fora 7'6" 5 weight. It will be used for pond fishing. Mostly pan fish but anoccasional large mouth (some of them very big on these private ponds, 7- 8lbs). TIA Doug Hall from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jul 30 22:12:38 2001 f6V3CbZ24696 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:09:37 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly RodsX-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) Subject: Re: Wrapping question Harry,I stick mostly with the Pearsalls Java brown (sometimes plain,sometimestipped black). I just finished my first blonde rod and wrapped with PearsallsClassicChestnut tipped black, it drew lots of ohhhs and ahhhhs. Haven't tried it on aflamedrod yet though. I have done a couple in antique gold with no tipping and theylookednice to me. My 2 wt sports olive green with highland green tipping and isprobablythe farthest I have strayed from standard colors.Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 30 22:38:45 2001 f6V3ciZ00506 Subject: Harry Rules the FAOL Fish In Hi Harry:A great article for you. Glad to see it. I bet many more will be drooling in the future. (If "they" only knew).I am really interested to hear what Ron Kusse's "criticisms of today's independent bamboo rod makers"are. Any idea?Best regards,Bob Check outhttp://www.globalflyfisher.com/reports/fishin2001/index.php from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jul 30 22:42:41 2001 f6V3gdZ01594 Subject: Re: Harry Rules the FAOL Fish In, now GFF BTW Harry, your installment #3 in GFF was really nice. Been waiting to see that one. I think your series is really classy and informative. For those who missed it:http://www.globalflyfisher.com/rodbuilding/bamboo3/index.phpTake care,Bob from richjez@enteract.com Mon Jul 30 23:04:51 2001 f6V44oZ06334 Subject: --=====================_10078875==_.ALT A heads up to the list. Though Norton found the viruses form the other Richard and "cleaned" them, when I looked in the attachment directory of Eudora, the attachments were still there. I don;t know if hey were operational but it is a concern. In addition I have used http://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_pcc.asp which does an online scan. It has found things Norton has not found. Not, what it has has been mostly the obnoxious joke and nag type stuff. Still, I learned in grad school that using more than one program is a worthwhile investment in time. Getting a second opinion is a good thing. Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro@/||/____/||_________________________________________||/\))):> > ))):> --=====================_10078875==_.ALT A heads up to the list. Though Norton found the virusesformthe other Richard and "cleaned" them, when I looked in theattachment directory of Eudora, the attachments were still there. I don;tknow if hey were operational but it is a concern. In addition I have usedhttp://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_pcc.aspwhich does an online scan. It has found things Norton has not found. Not,=what it has has been mostly the obnoxious joke and nag type stuff. Still, I=learned in grad school that using more than one program is a worthwhile=investment in time. Getting a second opinion is a good thing. Rich Jezioro ___________________) p; /\ --=====================_10078875==_.ALT-- from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Jul 30 23:13:18 2001 f6V4DHZ08189 Subject: Rods of the past This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I picked up a book today at a antique shop.It has a chapter in it about bamboo rods.I'm only half way through, but it describes how Bamboo rods Garrison. And Everett is quoted as saying that if a rod lasts 20 yrs =that comes to about $12.50 a yr. :)) about the price of two tanks of =gas. If he could of only seen into the future. Where$12.50 only gets you about 9 gallons of gas. Think of it a Garrison for =$250. It also describes Talk of an all gold rodthat Queen Victoria owned. It had solid gold ferrules and solid gold =reel seat fittings. One oil man was so jealous of this rod he had =America's best maker(it doesn't say who) make him a all gold rod that = Tony Miller I picked up a book today at a shop. rods.I'm only half way through, but it = $250 for a Garrison. And Everett is quoted as = a rod lasts 20 yrs that comes to about $12.50 a yr. :)) about the price = Where describes Talk of an all gold rodthat Queen Victoria owned. It = Tony Miller from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jul 31 04:51:44 2001 f6V9phZ12721 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:18:19 -0500 Subject: Gone Fishing Well, List, its' time to shut down the old computer, lock up the house andshop and hit the road. Gonna be gone for about 2 weeks to Montana to fishand visit. See some of you in a couple of days and the rest... well, hopeto be able to make you drool with stories of wild cuts when I return Tight lines, all,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Tue Jul 31 04:51:49 2001 f6V9pmZ12726 Subject: Thanks for the input This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Just wanted to thank those who gave me input on the resorcinol question.As always, the list supplies a wealth of information!!!!!!!!!!!!! John K. Just wanted to thank those whogave = the resorcinol question.Asalways, the = a wealth of information!!!!!!!!!!!!! JohnK. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 06:29:10 2001 f6VBT8Z13920 Subject: Code Red worm Here we go with yet another serious threat virus again. Basically if you're running Windoze 98, 95, ME or any non MS OS you don'thave the problem so don't worry about this one at least.Otherwise you may already have this worm and not be aware of it as youdon't need to do anything at all to make it work on your system.Below is Microsoft's bulleten on the subject. I know what I'll be doing allday tomorrow. Tony Installing the patch that stops the Code Red wormThis document outlines a quick and easy three-step process for protectingyour computer if you are running IIS version 4 or 5 on your computer, andyou have not yet installed the patch. To execute this process, you must belogged onto your computer's administrator account, or an account that hasadministrative privilege on your computer. To determine whether you are running vulnerable versions of IIS, Press Ctrl-Alt-Del and select Task Manager. When the Task Manager window appears, select the Processes tab. Look down the Image Name column of the window that appears. If you seeInetinfo.exe, you are running IIS. If you find you are running IIS 4.0 or 5.0, then do the following: Step 1. Download the patch 1.1 Create a folder anywhere on your hard drive and name itMicrosoft- patches so you'll have a place to store this patch and futurepatches 1.2 Windows 2000 and Windows NT have separate patches. Select theappropriate one and save the file in the folder you created in Step 1.1. Windows NT version 4.0:http://www.microsoft.com/Downloads/Release.asp?ReleaseID=30833 Windows 2000 Professional, Server and Advanced Server:http://www.microsoft.com/Downloads/Release.asp?ReleaseID=30800 Step 2. Install the patch 2.1 Go to the Microsoft-patches folder you created in Step 1.1 2.2 Find the patch: In Windows NT, the patch is named simply: Q300972i.exe In Windows 2000, it is called: q300972_w2k_sp3_x86_en.exe 2.3 Double click on the patch program 2.4 When it has finished, you will see a small pop-up that shows yoursystem has been updated. Step 3. Reboot your system to clear the worm from RAM worm if you hade been previously infected Additional information about the patch and its installation, and thevulnerability it addresses is available athttp://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-033.asp. If you are concerned that damage may have been done to your system by theworm, you may wish to follow the recovery procedures documented athttp://www.cert.org/tech_tips/root_compromise.html. The patches can only be installed on Windows 2000 and Window NT 4.0systemsthat have had recent service packs installed. If your system does notalready have the required service pack, the patch installation will producean error message advising you that the patch will not install on yoursystem. For free download of Windows 2000 Service Pack 2, go tohttp://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/downloads/servicepacks/sp2/default.asp. http://www.microsoft.com/ntserver/nts/downloads/recommended/SP6/allSP6.asp. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Tue Jul 31 06:34:22 2001 f6VBYLZ14156 Subject: Re: Rods of the past This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Tony,I've had the chance to see a couple of rods with gold plated ferrules =and fittings including the guides at Mike Clarks shop...the rod itself =looked very nice...but that gold plating was a little gawdy =looking....and it cost a tad more than $250. losey Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:10 AMSubject: Rods of the past I picked up a book today at a antique shop.It has a chapter in it about bamboo rods.I'm only half way through, but it describes how Bamboo rods Garrison. And Everett is quoted as saying that if a rod lasts 20 yrs =that comes to about $12.50 a yr. :)) about the price of two tanks of =gas. If he could of only seen into the future. Where$12.50 only gets you about 9 gallons of gas. Think of it a Garrison = that Queen Victoria owned. It had solid gold ferrules and solid gold =reel seat fittings. One oil man was so jealous of this rod he had =America's best maker(it doesn't say who) make him a all gold rod that = Tony Miller Tony,I've had the chance to see a couple of = gold plated ferrules and fittings including the guides at Mike Clarks = looking....and it cost a tad more than $250. losey ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 = AMSubject: Rods of the past I picked up a book today at a shop.It has a chapter in it about rods.I'm only half way through, but it = = $250 for a Garrison. And Everett is quoted as = if a rod lasts 20 yrs that comes to about $12.50 a yr. :)) about the = Where also describes Talk of an all gold rodthat Queen Victoria owned. It = Tony Miller from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 06:35:50 2001 f6VBZmZ14315 Subject: Attachments sent to the list It's bad form to post attachments to a list serve such as this for a fewreasons. It takes a hell of a lot more bandwidth than a couple of hundrednon rodmaking threads that seems to make certain people really annoyed, itslows things right down when you're forced to sit and wait for them todownload when you may not be interested and even though you can turnthingsoff to prevent attachments some people actually want to get attachmentsthey are expecting. Add to that we should all be treating EVERY attachment as a loaded gunaimed at out computers I'd like to suggest we try to keep these things to abare minimum.If there are pics etc you think we'd be interested in seeing how aboutuploading it to your site and posting the URL to people.I know it'll make life a lot easier to a lot of people. Tony/*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Tue Jul 31 06:35:55 2001 f6VBZsZ14320 Subject: Re: Harry Rules the FAOL Fish In Harry,Congrats on the article....I've also enjoyed reading your rod makingarticles.....losey----- Original Message ----- Subject: Harry Rules the FAOL Fish In Hi Harry:A great article for you. Glad to see it. I bet many more will be droolingin the future. (If "they" only knew).I am really interested to hear what Ron Kusse's "criticisms of today'sindependent bamboo rod makers"are. Any idea?Best regards,Bob Check outhttp://www.globalflyfisher.com/reports/fishin2001/index.php from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 06:40:52 2001 f6VBeoZ14895 Subject: Re: Norton's isn't really all that good overall and it makes some systems hang.Eudora has a switch you need to use that allows you to delete allattachementsalong with the message when you delete, if you don't do this the attachementwill remain.Eudora is still the best bet just now though IMHO. Tony At 11:03 PM 7/30/01 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: A heads up to the list. Though Norton found the viruses form the otherRichard and "cleaned" them, when I looked in the attachment directory ofEudora, the attachments were still there. I don;t know if hey wereoperational but it is a concern. In addition I have usedhttp://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_pcc.aspwhich does an online scan. It has found things Norton has not found. Not,what it has has been mostly the obnoxious joke and nag type stuff. Still, Ilearned in grad school that using more than one program is a worthwhileinvestment in time. Getting a second opinion is a good thing. Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @/||/____/||_________________________________________|| /\ ))):> > / \ ))):> /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 06:42:59 2001 f6VBgvZ15140 Subject: Re: Thanks for the input Love resorcinol, that red line make me feel secure things will stay togetherbut it gets darker and wider with time so make sure you get good tightfittingsplines. Tony At 05:56 AM 7/31/01 -0400, John Kenealy wrote: Just wanted to thank those who gave me input on the resorcinol question.As always, the list supplies a wealth of information!!!!!!!!!!!!! John K. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from if6were9@bellsouth.net Tue Jul 31 07:17:27 2001 f6VCHQZ15939 ;Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:18:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus While it's not a Mac, my old wheeze box running netscape and windows 95appearsto be immune to the virus problems associated with the later versions ofwindowsand outlook. Danny Twang wrote: Hi folks, do Yourself a favour an get a Mac:-) never bee hit by any virus:-) danny from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Jul 31 07:29:47 2001 f6VCTiZ16355 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:29:38 +1000 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list FILETIME=[772CB810:01C119BC] Tony: I mention that most of the messages I get from the Rodmakers listare in the form of a message with an attachment. But, I have theimpression that the senders do not know that the messages are comingthat way. Maybe their messages are composed in some Microsoft stationeryand then sent as attachments, I do not know? I do know that when I askeda couple of times about these attachments the sender did not seem toknow what I was talking about. I do know that in these times I lookpretty carefully at any message with an attachment, but I ma no longerso sure that if I see a familiar name, and the attachment in for exampleplain text, that it is really safe to open it. Having said that, the Apple Mac system seems less vulnerable; also usingNetscape. Another list I am on does not allow attachments, but this list has allmessages vetted by a webmaster before being released to the list. Hesometimes resets them as what I might call first page messages, butafter a while he bounces them. Sean Tony Young wrote: It's bad form to post attachments to a list serve such as this for a fewreasons. It takes a hell of a lot more bandwidth than a couple of hundrednon rodmaking threads that seems to make certain people really annoyed,itslows things right down when you're forced to sit and wait for them todownload when you may not be interested and even though you can turnthingsoff to prevent attachments some people actually want to get attachmentsthey are expecting. Add to that we should all be treating EVERY attachment as a loaded gunaimed at out computers I'd like to suggest we try to keep these things to abare minimum.If there are pics etc you think we'd be interested in seeing how aboutuploading it to your site and posting the URL to people.I know it'll make life a lot easier to a lot of people. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Jul 31 07:32:05 2001 f6VCW4Z16571 Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher I feel the need to reiterate what has been said in several messages. Ifyou don't want to get a virus, you need to do two things. First, get ananti-virus software program installed on your system. Two, NEVER, EVERopen an attachment that you haven't asked for, especially if you don'tspecifically know who the sender is. Take those two steps and you won'thave a problem at all. As a side note, I think I've said before that the reason the Mac-itesdon't ever get any viruses is because it isn't worth the trouble for thewriters of the viruses. What do the Macs have in market share? Lessthan 1% or something like that. What do you guys expect? Of course,this is coming from a devoted PC nut! ;^) Have a great day and DON'T OPEN THOSE ATTACHMENTS!-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Jul 31 07:39:33 2001 f6VCdVZ17066 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but the latesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and Internet Explorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny from bosmith@ismi.net Tue Jul 31 07:54:36 2001 f6VCsZZ17583 [63.215.166.130] (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list --=====================_3811720==_.ALT At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote:I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but the latesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and Internet Explorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work under Netscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. I still refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfect example of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured, and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't be spamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World --=====================_3811720==_.ALT At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote:I`ve been a long time user ofNetscape both on Mac and PC, but the latesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape?dannyMore web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work under Free, full-featured, and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, atleast I won't be spamming the world .Bob http://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential and Commercial Real Estate Company in the World --=====================_3811720==_.ALT-- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Jul 31 08:04:04 2001 f6VD44Z18064 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unless youdisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but thelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work underNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't bespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from keho107ponto@webtv.net Tue Jul 31 08:14:41 2001 f6VDEeZ18979 (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA11298; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:14:39 - ETAuAhUAizBwE6ugsewWcvLFgAGoePSCeiYCFQCKVVawLBCYT8g0pCAVRyC+0kTgXg== Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE --WebTV-Mail-4556-1891 sign off RODMAKERS --WebTV-Mail-4556-1891 SunshineWelcomeKAY --WebTV-Mail-4556-1891-- from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 08:59:07 2001 f6VDx6Z20798 2001 06:59:05 PDT Subject: Re: Taper suggestion rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I'll second that, what's called for here is strength,not really delicacy. My favorite rod for this kind ofwork is a 7' 9", 6 weight. Bill Walters --- Jim Bureau wrote: Doug: 7-8 lb range, I'd suggest a rod with a good sized fish down in the middle of the flyrod. A 6 or 7wt rod size. I'd stay away from the rods with a .062 sizedtip and made for a 5 wt. line. Don't take a knife to agun Jim rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu of the list. I am needing a taper for pond fishing. Mostly pan fish but an very big on these private ponds, 7-8 Get your FREEdownload of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Jul 31 08:59:15 2001 f6VDxAZ20805 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:59:32 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:55:14 -0400 Subject: RE: Wrapping question I really like Royal Hunt with green tipping (Pearsalls). The RH comes outneither pink nor red (like it has some brown in it?), I am not sure how todescribe it. Pre-varnish it looks pink and may scare some people off. Iguess I just like the color. My other choice is java brown with blacktipping. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wrapping question Harry,I stick mostly with the Pearsalls Java brown (sometimes plain,sometimestipped black). I just finished my first blonde rod and wrapped withPearsalls ClassicChestnut tipped black, it drew lots of ohhhs and ahhhhs. Haven't tried it ona flamedrod yet though. I have done a couple in antique gold with no tipping andthey lookednice to me. My 2 wt sports olive green with highland green tipping and isprobablythe farthest I have strayed from standard colors.Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now, thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. Friday I wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer Antique Gold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the first coat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preservers forme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It's not thequality of the finish or the work. I know that it willshine up nice and purty with a few more coats of varnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of the antique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged out another rodI had done the same way several years ago and realize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do you reallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamed blank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wraps tippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turn or two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumps out at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Jul 31 09:12:05 2001 f6VEC4Z21851 Subject: RE: Attachments sent to the list When the "virus" is a worm attached to html email the netscape users just pass italong to the ms users...its kinda like oldtyphoid mary, she aint got it but boy canshe spread it... the main reason these things dont effect netscape is because they dont use the wab(windows address book) which the scriptsparse to gain the addresses of the peopleyou send email to...Brad -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unless youdisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but thelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work underNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't bespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from Kengorific@aol.com Tue Jul 31 10:25:50 2001 f6VFPnZ25531 Subject: Bob Milward's new book I understand from other posts that Bob's book has a description of how to make ferrules from brass tubing. I am interested in trying this, but I don't know if I have enough tools for the job. Could someone who has the book email me with an outline of the procedure, does it require a lathe or could I get by with just a drill press?Thanks in advance, Ken. from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 10:28:26 2001 f6VFSPZ25809 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Bro. Boyd's Bestowment Now I am curious. What was the line weight and taper of that rod with allthe drool on it??? Jason On 7/30/01 6:42 PM, "Jojo DeLancier" wrote: Thought the rest of you might like to read the accolades bestowed upononeof our resident denizens, Harry Boyd.Nice work, Harry! http://www.globalflyfisher.com/reports/fishin2001/index.php from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Jul 31 11:07:17 2001 f6VG7GZ27695 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Bob Milward's new book Hey, share with the List:-)danny From: Kengorific@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:25:31 EDT Subject: Bob Milward's new book I understand from other posts that Bob's book has a description of how tomake ferrules from brass tubing. I am interested in trying this, but I don'tknow if I have enough tools for the job. Could someone who has the bookemail me with an outline of the procedure, does it require a lathe or could Iget by with just a drill press?Thanks in advance, Ken. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 11:22:19 2001 f6VGMHZ28457 Subject: Re: Virus IMHO we should all go LINUX. At 07:15 AM 7/31/01 -0500, Custom Built Fishing Rods wrote:While it's not a Mac, my old wheeze box running netscape and windows 95appearsto be immune to the virus problems associated with the later versions ofwindowsand outlook. Danny Twang wrote: Hi folks, do Yourself a favour an get a Mac:-) never bee hit by anyvirus:-) danny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 11:28:54 2001 f6VGSrZ28878 Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher MAC's have had serious virus problems in the past but these were mainlyonboard the chip from the factory and there are virus around for them justlike PCs. The reason PCs get the bloody things so often is two fold. One isthat it's just plain fun to pick on Bill and secondly there are so manysecurity breaches in Win it's almost too easy to be any fun writing viruswhich is the reason kiddy scripters can cause so much damage. Tony At 08:29 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I feel the need to reiterate what has been said in several messages. Ifyou don't want to get a virus, you need to do two things. First, get ananti-virus software program installed on your system. Two, NEVER, EVERopen an attachment that you haven't asked for, especially if you don'tspecifically know who the sender is. Take those two steps and you won'thave a problem at all. As a side note, I think I've said before that the reason the Mac-itesdon't ever get any viruses is because it isn't worth the trouble for thewriters of the viruses. What do the Macs have in market share? Lessthan 1% or something like that. What do you guys expect? Of course,this is coming from a devoted PC nut! ;^) Have a great day and DON'T OPEN THOSE ATTACHMENTS!-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from jmpio@nhbm.com Tue Jul 31 11:35:03 2001 f6VGZ2Z29405 Subject: Broken Rod (again) Hey list, I either am the clumsiest angler ever, or I am doing something seriouslywrong. I have made and promptly broken two rods in a row now. The firstrod broke at a repair site when I foolishly yanked on my leader to free aknot from a guide. My fault, no doubt about it. The latest rod I just finished. Was casting upstream in pocket water, flygets wedged between two rocks. I throw a roll cast followed by an attemptto pick up the line, in an effort to free the fly. Fly does not come free,and when I attempt to pick up the line I put a LITTLE BIT of pressure on therod. The rod never even bent to half of the flex it was getting whilecasting, nonetheless, it snaps just below the butt-mid ferrule. While I canaccept fault for trying to use the rod to free a snag when I should havejust broekn off the fly, this was not a case where I put that much stress onthe rod. If a properly built rod is that delicate, it is useless, at leastto me . Are there any obvious (to more experienced builders) reasons thatwould explain why my rods seem to have a tendency to break. My dimensionsare fairly close to the intended taper, and in no case are theysignificantly smaller (say by more than 3-4 thous) than the intendeddimensions. The taper is one received from a well-respected member of thislist. I glue with polyurethane glues. My ferrules were applied withFerrl-Tite hot melt cement. Everything was wrapped in 3/0 silk, and had4-6 coats of spar varnish. This time the break was right at the end of theferrule tabs. I know that I have always been pretty hard on gear (gear of all sorts). AndI am about to conclude that I am simply too hard on my gear to use anythingbut industrial strength carbon fiber, unless someone can come up with areasonable explanation of what I might be doing wrong in the constructionprocess that would render my rods this delicate. James M. Piotrowski from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 11:48:59 2001 f6VGmvZ00621 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list That's the reason I mentioned it might be a good idea to not sendattachments onlist because they (attachments) should all be shot on sightin any case so it makes life a lot easier if you can pretty certain of whatyou're dealing with when an attachment does arrive. Personally I don't really trust anti virus software all that much thesedays because a lot of virus now and more in the future will mutate sodatabases of the anti virus software will be out of date too fast to be asreliable (??) as now so you really do have to have your wits about you ifyou're getting a lot of email and if you do actually get and sendattachments you want as email was intended to be used on a regular basis.As a result you need to not only have anti virus software you're confidentwith but also need to be vigilant as to when you really need to makecertain you're up to date with the database. I just arrived home from checking out several networks for virus andupdating NT servers against Code Red. A couple of these places had onlybeen looked at a few days back and when I checked again today I foundseveral more that had arrived in the mean time. Happily the people therehave finally learned to not open every attachment that arrives so therewere no hassles but these things spread so fast that individual behaviorreally can make a dif to a lot of people. Our mate Richard S. Pettepher isa nice example. Mike, if you read this is there a way of blocking attachments via theserver unless that's something people would have a problem with? Tony At 10:30 PM 7/31/01 +1000, Sean McSharry wrote:Tony: I mention that most of the messages I get from the Rodmakers listare in the form of a message with an attachment. But, I have theimpression that the senders do not know that the messages are comingthat way. Maybe their messages are composed in some Microsoftstationeryand then sent as attachments, I do not know? I do know that when I askeda couple of times about these attachments the sender did not seem toknow what I was talking about. I do know that in these times I lookpretty carefully at any message with an attachment, but I ma no longerso sure that if I see a familiar name, and the attachment in for exampleplain text, that it is really safe to open it. Having said that, the Apple Mac system seems less vulnerable; also usingNetscape. Another list I am on does not allow attachments, but this list has allmessages vetted by a webmaster before being released to the list. Hesometimes resets them as what I might call first page messages, butafter a while he bounces them. Sean /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jul 31 12:00:55 2001 f6VH0sZ01596 2001 10:00:54 PDT Subject: Re: Wrapping question i like the chestnut also. i've tracked down some woodfillers that match the chestnut-over-flamed exactly. timothy --- Shawn Pineo wrote:Harry,I stick mostly with the Pearsalls Javabrown (sometimes plain, sometimestipped black). I just finished my first blonde rodand wrapped with Pearsalls ClassicChestnut tipped black, it drew lots of ohhhs andahhhhs. Haven't tried it on a flamedrod yet though. I have done a couple in antique goldwith no tipping and they lookednice to me. My 2 wt sports olive green with highlandgreen tipping and is probablythe farthest I have strayed from standard colors.Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, With all the virus scare going on right now,thought itmight be time to bring up another subject. FridayI wrappeda nice little rod in Pearsall's Gossamer AntiqueGold, anddouble tipped it in deep brown. I put the firstcoat ofvarnish on the wraps already, no color preserversforme... and it looks, well, it looks crummy. It'snot thequality of the finish or the work. I know that itwillshine up nice and purty with a few more coats ofvarnish.It's just that I don't like the looks of theantique goldwraps on a lightly flamed blank. I dragged outanother rodI had done the same way several years ago andrealize nowthat it's ugly too. Here's my question: What color wraps do youreallythink looks nice on a light to medium flamedblank? I'vebeen doing lots of rods lately with clear wrapstippedburgundy. Some of them even have an inlaid turnor two ofburgundy. They look nice, but what really jumpsout at youas sharp looking? Thanks in advance,Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 12:03:29 2001 f6VH3SZ02014 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list The big problem amonst others with Outlook is you can't currently stopmacros that arrive with email from firing up so any virus that uses a macroto make the OS run the virus has a free run. Eudora and others allow you toprevent a macro running unless you specificaly want to run it. Also, youcan have Eudora include attachments as a part of the message if possiblerather than an attachment. This means that depending on the virus and howit's designed to run you will often see a lot of garbage in the message ofan infected email, if you had Eudora set this way when ever a virus likeKAK worm arrived you'd see garbage in the body of the message. If you readthe message without opening it you'd see the letters KAK with variousextensions sprinkled around in the garbage. Provided you delete the messageand didn't run it you don't have a problem in this particular case. Theselittle advantages help a lot in staying out of harms way.Also, Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addresses ofthe people you have stored there. Tony At 09:01 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unless youdisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but thelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work underNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't bespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from rollcaster@hotmail.com Tue Jul 31 12:34:23 2001 f6VHYNZ03877 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:34:06 -0700 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:34:06 GMT Subject: Fwd: UNSUBSCRIBE FILETIME=[FF9AEBC0:01C119E6] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. From: keho107ponto@webtv.net (Katherine Overman) Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE sign off RODMAKERS _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp SunshineWelcomeKAY from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Jul 31 12:40:25 2001 f6VHeOZ04400 KAA15979 Subject: Oven design? Howdy, everbody -A while back I saw a reference on the list to an oven design someoneshowed at Grayrock last year. The design was based, as I recall, on4"/6" round ductwork was described as a real nice design, very clean.I'm getting ready to build a "real" oven to replace my heat gunFranken-oven and wonder if anyone has a spare emailable set of plans forthat design, or could tell me if the plans are online somewhere? Appreciate the help, - thanks! mac from rmoon@ida.net Tue Jul 31 13:10:07 2001 f6VIA5Z06253 Subject: (no subject) The Federation of Fly Fishers annual conclave and show is being held inLivingston, MT this year August 6-8. While there is nothing formally planned for bamboo rodmakers, the FFFhas made available to rodmakers a commercial booth in the exhibit hall.We are calling it simply a Bamboo Roundtable. Everyone who can make itis invited. You will meet other rod makers, tell a few tall stories,and hopefully cast a few rods.. We will be in booth 47 and hope to seeyou there. Ralph Moon P.S. Bob Nunley said he would have a sample of his bamboo ferrulesthere. That alone would make it worth the trip. As always there arelots of fly tiers, commercial exhibit, and fly fishing personalitiesplus a lot of workshops and free lectures. from homes-sold@home.com Tue Jul 31 13:41:03 2001 f6VIf2Z08417 femail39.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:40:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher I'm wondering if Richard S. Pettepher exists. I've sent several e-mails tohim with no response. If he is not on the list and doesn't respond, whydon't we ALL put him on our "block sender list" and be done with it? I knowthis is a little drastic and it is not my normal mode, I'll help anyone butthis is getting out of hand. Anyone have a better idea?Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher MAC's have had serious virus problems in the past but these were mainlyonboard the chip from the factory and there are virus around for them justlike PCs. The reason PCs get the bloody things so often is two fold. One isthat it's just plain fun to pick on Bill and secondly there are so manysecurity breaches in Win it's almost too easy to be any fun writing viruswhich is the reason kiddy scripters can cause so much damage. Tony At 08:29 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I feel the need to reiterate what has been said in several messages. Ifyou don't want to get a virus, you need to do two things. First, get ananti-virus software program installed on your system. Two, NEVER, EVERopen an attachment that you haven't asked for, especially if you don'tspecifically know who the sender is. Take those two steps and you won'thave a problem at all. As a side note, I think I've said before that the reason the Mac-itesdon't ever get any viruses is because it isn't worth the trouble for thewriters of the viruses. What do the Macs have in market share? Lessthan 1% or something like that. What do you guys expect? Of course,this is coming from a devoted PC nut! ;^) Have a great day and DON'T OPEN THOSE ATTACHMENTS!--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 14:52:28 2001 f6VJqRZ12842 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list Tony, You may want to take 30 sec or a minute max and find out what Outlook doesbefore publishing things like this. from the tools pulldown select macro. select the security tab and you get three choices. low (not recommended) - runs everything. medium - you can chose to run them or not. High - only macros from trusted sources and you enter the sources underthe "trusted sources" tab. In Outlook you are only going to get bit by a virus if you do something likeopen an attachment. A lot of Eudora users in the office (our IT department USED TO recommendEudora but now recommends Outlook because its safer) have been getting hitwith the virus that are going around because they blindly openedattachments. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list The big problem amonst others with Outlook is you can't currently stopmacros that arrive with email from firing up so any virus that uses amacroto make the OS run the virus has a free run. Eudora and others allow youtoprevent a macro running unless you specificaly want to run it. Also, youcan have Eudora include attachments as a part of the message if possiblerather than an attachment. This means that depending on the virus andhowit's designed to run you will often see a lot of garbage in the message ofan infected email, if you had Eudora set this way when ever a virus likeKAK worm arrived you'd see garbage in the body of the message. If youreadthe message without opening it you'd see the letters KAK with variousextensions sprinkled around in the garbage. Provided you delete themessageand didn't run it you don't have a problem in this particular case. Theselittle advantages help a lot in staying out of harms way.Also, Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addresses ofthe people you have stored there. Tony At 09:01 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unless youdisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but thelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work underNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't bespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 15:02:32 2001 f6VK2VZ13734 NAA26311; Subject: Re: Broken Rod (again) Hi James, Tell me a little about your heat treating procedures. Post the specs onhexrod and let us take a look at the stress graphs. Heat treat a sample ofcane left over the same way and break it. What does it look like? Lets start from there Best Regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Broken Rod (again) Hey list, I either am the clumsiest angler ever, or I am doing something seriouslywrong. from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Jul 31 15:06:04 2001 f6VK63Z14127 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Broken Rod (again) James: You have probably thought of all the likely reasons that this might haveoccurred, so what about some less likely. You might consider measuring thedimensions of the butt section at the break and the mid section just abovethe ferrule. If the butt is a little undersized and the mid a littleoversized a stress point would have resulted. Another possibility: Are youusing a lathe with three jaw chuck for turning the ferrule stations? If so,you may be over tightening the chuck and damaging the section. Either ofthose might cause breakage at the point you describe. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Broken Rod (again) Hey list, I either am the clumsiest angler ever, or I am doing something seriouslywrong. I have made and promptly broken two rods in a row now. The firstrod broke at a repair site when I foolishly yanked on my leader to free aknot from a guide. My fault, no doubt about it. The latest rod I just finished. Was casting upstream in pocket water, flygets wedged between two rocks. I throw a roll cast followed by an attemptto pick up the line, in an effort to free the fly. Fly does not come free,and when I attempt to pick up the line I put a LITTLE BIT of pressure on therod. The rod never even bent to half of the flex it was getting whilecasting, nonetheless, it snaps just below the butt-mid ferrule. While I canaccept fault for trying to use the rod to free a snag when I should havejust broekn off the fly, this was not a case where I put that much stress onthe rod. If a properly built rod is that delicate, it is useless, at leastto me . Are there any obvious (to more experienced builders) reasons thatwould explain why my rods seem to have a tendency to break. My dimensionsare fairly close to the intended taper, and in no case are theysignificantly smaller (say by more than 3-4 thous) than the intendeddimensions. The taper is one received from a well-respected member of thislist. I glue with polyurethane glues. My ferrules were applied withFerrl-Tite hot melt cement. Everything was wrapped in 3/0 silk, and had4-6 coats of spar varnish. This time the break was right at the end of theferrule tabs. I know that I have always been pretty hard on gear (gear of all sorts). AndI am about to conclude that I am simply too hard on my gear to use anythingbut industrial strength carbon fiber, unless someone can come up with areasonable explanation of what I might be doing wrong in the constructionprocess that would render my rods this delicate. James M. Piotrowski from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 15:06:14 2001 f6VK6DZ14142 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list Presumably you have a different ver than I have. I just double checked andthere is no provission to do as you mention. I guess there is a newer ver than I have or there is a patch to fix thingsbut that still leaves this problem:Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addresses of thepeople you have stored there. Tony At 03:51 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Tony, You may want to take 30 sec or a minute max and find out what Outlookdoesbefore publishing things like this. from the tools pulldown select macro. select the security tab and you get three choices. low (not recommended) - runs everything. medium - you can chose to run them or not. High - only macros from trusted sources and you enter the sourcesunderthe "trusted sources" tab. In Outlook you are only going to get bit by a virus if you do something likeopen an attachment. A lot of Eudora users in the office (our IT department USED TO recommendEudora but now recommends Outlook because its safer) have been gettinghitwith the virus that are going around because they blindly openedattachments. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; "Rodmakers" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:06 PMSubject: Re: Attachments sent to the list The big problem amonst others with Outlook is you can't currently stopmacros that arrive with email from firing up so any virus that uses amacroto make the OS run the virus has a free run. Eudora and others allow youtoprevent a macro running unless you specificaly want to run it. Also, youcan have Eudora include attachments as a part of the message if possiblerather than an attachment. This means that depending on the virus andhowit's designed to run you will often see a lot of garbage in the message ofan infected email, if you had Eudora set this way when ever a virus likeKAK worm arrived you'd see garbage in the body of the message. If youreadthe message without opening it you'd see the letters KAK with variousextensions sprinkled around in the garbage. Provided you delete themessageand didn't run it you don't have a problem in this particular case. Theselittle advantages help a lot in staying out of harms way.Also, Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addressesofthe people you have stored there. Tony At 09:01 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unlessyoudisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but thelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work underNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't bespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jul 31 15:38:58 2001 f6VKcuZ16624 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:32:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Broken Rod (again) James,Bill makes good points. Just a guess, but you also may be using ferrulesthat are a size or two smallish. Measure your dimensions again, being sureyoujust round the corners off the hex and not cut deeply into the flatsthemselvesat the ferrule stations. Harry "Lamberson, William R." wrote: James: You have probably thought of all the likely reasons that this might haveoccurred, so what about some less likely. You might consider measuringthedimensions of the butt section at the break and the mid section just abovethe ferrule. If the butt is a little undersized and the mid a littleoversized a stress point would have resulted. Another possibility: Are youusing a lathe with three jaw chuck for turning the ferrule stations? If so,you may be over tightening the chuck and damaging the section. Either ofthose might cause breakage at the point you describe. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:38 AM Subject: Broken Rod (again) Hey list, I either am the clumsiest angler ever, or I am doing something seriouslywrong. I have made and promptly broken two rods in a row now. The firstrod broke at a repair site when I foolishly yanked on my leader to free aknot from a guide. My fault, no doubt about it. The latest rod I just finished. Was casting upstream in pocket water, flygets wedged between two rocks. I throw a roll cast followed by an attemptto pick up the line, in an effort to free the fly. Fly does not come free,and when I attempt to pick up the line I put a LITTLE BIT of pressure on therod. The rod never even bent to half of the flex it was getting whilecasting, nonetheless, it snaps just below the butt-mid ferrule. While I canaccept fault for trying to use the rod to free a snag when I should havejust broekn off the fly, this was not a case where I put that much stressonthe rod. If a properly built rod is that delicate, it is useless, at leastto me . Are there any obvious (to more experienced builders) reasons thatwould explain why my rods seem to have a tendency to break. Mydimensionsare fairly close to the intended taper, and in no case are theysignificantly smaller (say by more than 3-4 thous) than the intendeddimensions. The taper is one received from a well-respected member ofthislist. I glue with polyurethane glues. My ferrules were applied withFerrl-Tite hot melt cement. Everything was wrapped in 3/0 silk, and had4-6 coats of spar varnish. This time the break was right at the end of theferrule tabs. I know that I have always been pretty hard on gear (gear of all sorts). AndI am about to conclude that I am simply too hard on my gear to useanythingbut industrial strength carbon fiber, unless someone can come up with areasonable explanation of what I might be doing wrong in the constructionprocess that would render my rods this delicate. James M. Piotrowski --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Jul 31 16:33:53 2001 f6VLXqZ20143 Subject: Re: Fake Rods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I suspect that Heddon sold a lot of blanks much in the way that modern =graphite rod manufactureres do. I talked many years ago to Gord =Blanchard the owner of a local rod company. He told me that he was =importing Heddon blanks back in the 30's. I suspect that Heddon sold a lot of = that he was importing Heddon blanks back in the =30's. from lblan@provide.net Tue Jul 31 16:43:19 2001 f6VLhIZ20919 "Paul Goodwin" , Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Well Tony; I have to join in with the folks using Outlook. I'm using '98, Outlook2000, have used Outlook or Outlook express since waaaay back when. Todate,and I knock on wood here, I have not had any problem, despite all of the viriiwe have been exposed to. Now, I am careful, keep my AV updated, run apersonalfirewall, won't open suspicious attachments without looking at them with aneditor, etc... On another note; I keep my firewall set to it's "verbose" mode, it talks tome a lot. There is not an evening that goes by that I don't see a domain-widescan looking for either Netbus ports or Back Orifice ports... I often wonderhow many people out there own computers that are happily conversing withhalfthe universe without their knowledge. Larry Blan Presumably you have a different ver than I have. I just double checked and there is no provission to do as you mention. I guess there is a newer ver than I have or there is a patch to fix things but that still leaves this problem:Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addresses of thepeople you have stored there. Tony At 03:51 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Tony, You may want to take 30 sec or a minute max and find out what Outlookdoes before publishing things like this. from the tools pulldown select macro. select the security tab and you get three choices. low (not recommended) - runs everything. medium - you can chose to run them or not. High - only macros from trusted sources and you enter the sourcesunder the "trusted sources" tab. In Outlook you are only going to get bit by a virus if you do something like open an attachment. A lot of Eudora users in the office (our IT department USED TOrecommendEudora but now recommends Outlook because its safer) have been gettinghit with the virus that are going around because they blindly openedattachments. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; "Rodmakers" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:06 PMSubject: Re: Attachments sent to the list The big problem amonst others with Outlook is you can't currently stopmacros that arrive with email from firing up so any virus that uses amacroto make the OS run the virus has a free run. Eudora and others allowyou toprevent a macro running unless you specificaly want to run it. Also, you can have Eudora include attachments as a part of the message ifpossible rather than an attachment. This means that depending on the virus andhow it's designed to run you will often see a lot of garbage in the messageofan infected email, if you had Eudora set this way when ever a virus like KAK worm arrived you'd see garbage in the body of the message. If youread the message without opening it you'd see the letters KAK with variousextensions sprinkled around in the garbage. Provided you delete themessageand didn't run it you don't have a problem in this particular case. These little advantages help a lot in staying out of harms way.Also, Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addressesof the people you have stored there. Tony At 09:01 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message, specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unlessyou disable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but the latesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't workunder Netscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfect example of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't be spamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ http://www.provide.net from andy@w-link.net Tue Jul 31 16:48:18 2001 f6VLm6Z21398 Subject: AMAYAH 3-7-01 Hi! How are you=3F I send you this file in order to have your advice See you later=2E Thanks from oandc@msn.com Tue Jul 31 16:48:36 2001 f6VLmZZ21488 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:48:30 -0700 Subject: Virus, Malware Lessons FILETIME=[89F14490:01C11A0A] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Gentlemen,I subscribe to a couple tech sites such as Techrepublic.com and =Techtarget.com. The latter just did an article I thought some of you =might be interested in. The URL is as follows.http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/featuredTopic/0,290042,sid14_gci7573=04,00.htmlIt will provide a little info on the new viruses known as Malware. =Sircam falls into this catigory.Wayne K. Gentlemen,I subscribe to a couple tech sites such= Techrepublic.com and Techtarget.com. The latter just did an article I = some of you might be interested in. The URL is as follows.http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/featuredTopic/0,=290042,sid14_gci757304,00.htmlIt will provide a little info on the = known as Malware. Sircam falls into this catigory.WayneK. from martinj@aa.net Tue Jul 31 16:53:03 2001 f6VLr2Z22096 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:52:57 -0700 Subject: RE: Anti virus programs don't work well together. None of them do. That maybe why you had problems with Norton. You should pick one brand and ONLYinstall that. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Norton's isn't really all that good overall and it makes some systemshang.Eudora has a switch you need to use that allows you to delete allattachementsalong with the message when you delete, if you don't do this theattachementwill remain.Eudora is still the best bet just now though IMHO. Tony At 11:03 PM 7/30/01 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: A heads up to the list. Though Norton found the viruses form the otherRichard and "cleaned" them, when I looked in the attachment directoryofEudora, the attachments were still there. I don;t know if hey wereoperational but it is a concern. In addition I have usedhttp://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_pcc.aspwhich does an online scan. It has found things Norton has not found.Not,what it has has been mostly the obnoxious joke and nag type stuff.Still, Ilearned in grad school that using more than one program is aworthwhileinvestment in time. Getting a second opinion is a good thing. Rich Jezioro*________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @/||/____/||_________________________________________|| /\ ))):> > / \ ))):> /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 17:02:59 2001 f6VM2wZ22882 Subject: Re: Virus, Malware Lessons Ok, but it took a while for the buggers to catch up :-) At 02:49 PM 7/31/01 -0700, oandc wrote: Gentlemen,I subscribe to a couple tech sites such as Techrepublic.com andTechtarget.com. The latter just did an article I thought some of youmight beinterested in. The URL is as follows. 04,00.html>http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/featuredTopic/0,290042,sid14_gci757304,00.htmlIt will provide a little info on the new viruses known as Malware. Sircamfalls into this catigory.Wayne K. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Jul 31 17:06:24 2001 f6VM6OZ23265 Subject: List member This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Does any one know if Andy Royer is a list member?I was sent an email with a virus infected attachment.and it looked to be deliberate. My virus protection caught it.But I was compelled to open it because it sounded like a list member.I'm not blaming any one, he may not know about it. BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Does any one know if Andy Royer is a list member?I was sent an email with a virus infected attachment.and it looked to be deliberate. My virus protection caught =it. member. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 17:09:22 2001 f6VM9KZ23640 Subject: Re: List member I just got it too. I returned a message to Andy telling him about it and themessage bounced. Tony At 06:06 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: Does any one know if Andy Royer is a list member?I was sent an email with a virus infected attachment.and it looked to be deliberate. My virus protection caught it.But I was compelled to open it because it sounded like a list member.I'm not blaming any one, he may not know about it.It was titled you may want to look at this. Tony Miller /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 17:12:30 2001 f6VMCSZ24076 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list "Rodmakers" I just checked MS's site and it looks like if you get the patches Outlookis improved after downloading them all .Presumably Outlook has since beenreleased with these patches and if you get it since MS have done somethingyou can make the adjustments because there is still no way I can even afterdownloading every patch MS have for Outlook Express. Looks like they began fixing the problems on May 24th this year but Iwonder how many people are aware this patch exists if they don't have an ITdept chasing these patches down? I confess to not being aware of this untilyou wrote though Eudora not having as many issues in the first place Ididn't see the need to change. Tony /**************** from MS site. *******************************/This update resolves a security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, and isdiscussed in Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-020. Download now to preventa malicious user from running an executable e-mail attachment on yourcomputer. This vulnerability exists because Internet Explorer does not handle MIME(Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) headers in HTML e-mails correctly.If a malicious user sends an affected HTML e-mail or hosts an affectede-mail on a Web site, and a user opens the e-mail or visits the Web site,Internet Explorer automatically runs the excecutable on the user'scomputer. If this occurs, the executable can take any action on thecomputer that the user can take, including adding, changing, or deletingdata, communicating with Web sites, or reformatting the hard drive. Thisupdate eliminates the vulnerability by correcting the way Internet Explorerhandles MIME headers in HTML e-mails, preventing e-mails from automaticallylaunching executable attachments. At 03:51 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Tony, You may want to take 30 sec or a minute max and find out what Outlookdoesbefore publishing things like this. from the tools pulldown select macro. select the security tab and you get three choices. low (not recommended) - runs everything. medium - you can chose to run them or not. High - only macros from trusted sources and you enter the sourcesunderthe "trusted sources" tab. In Outlook you are only going to get bit by a virus if you do something likeopen an attachment. A lot of Eudora users in the office (our IT department USED TO recommendEudora but now recommends Outlook because its safer) have been gettinghitwith the virus that are going around because they blindly openedattachments. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; "Rodmakers" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:06 PMSubject: Re: Attachments sent to the list The big problem amonst others with Outlook is you can't currently stopmacros that arrive with email from firing up so any virus that uses amacroto make the OS run the virus has a free run. Eudora and others allow youtoprevent a macro running unless you specificaly want to run it. Also, youcan have Eudora include attachments as a part of the message if possiblerather than an attachment. This means that depending on the virus andhowit's designed to run you will often see a lot of garbage in the message ofan infected email, if you had Eudora set this way when ever a virus likeKAK worm arrived you'd see garbage in the body of the message. If youreadthe message without opening it you'd see the letters KAK with variousextensions sprinkled around in the garbage. Provided you delete themessageand didn't run it you don't have a problem in this particular case. Theselittle advantages help a lot in staying out of harms way.Also, Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addressesofthe people you have stored there. Tony At 09:01 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unlessyoudisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but thelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work underNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is a perfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't bespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 17:12:49 2001 f6VMCmZ24113 Subject: Andy Royer's message has a Virus Hi, Andy Royer's message has a virus. Interestingly I wasn't affected even though I use outlook express. Paul> from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jul 31 17:18:21 2001 f6VMIKZ24983 Subject: Re: AMAYAH 3-7-01 --=====================_2012983==_.ALT Andy, your computer is infected with amayah 3-7-01 and sharing it with the rest of us on the rodmakers listRich Jezioro. At 04:57 PM 7/31/01, Andy Royer wrote: Content-Disposition: message text Hi! How are you? I send you this file in order to have your advice See you later. Thanks --=====================_2012983==_.ALT Andy, your computer is infected with amayah 3-7-01 andsharing it with the rest of us on the rodmakers listRich Jezioro. At 04:57 PM 7/31/01, Andy Royer wrote:Content-Type: text/plain; Hi! How are you? I send you this file in order to have your advice See you later. Thanks --=====================_2012983==_.ALT-- from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Jul 31 17:26:57 2001 f6VMQtZ25792 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh- Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: AMAYAH 3-7-01 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3079470408_70192_MIME_Part It is called kbb Toyota 6-25 now................... danny Subject: Re: AMAYAH 3-7-01 Andy, your computer is infected with amayah 3-7-01 and sharing it with therest of us on the rodmakers listRich Jezioro. At 04:57 PM 7/31/01, Andy Royer wrote: Hi! How are you? I send you this file in order to have your advice See you later. Thanks --MS_Mac_OE_3079470408_70192_MIME_Part Re: AMAYAH 3-7-01 It is called kbb Toyota 6-25 now................... danny Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:19:07 -0500 Subject: Re: AMAYAH 3-7-01 Andy, your computer is infected with amayah 3-7-01 andsharing =it with the rest of us on the rodmakers listRich Jezioro. At 04:57 PM 7/31/01, Andy Royer wrote: Hi! How are you? I send you this file in order to have your advice See you later. Thanks --MS_Mac_OE_3079470408_70192_MIME_Part-- from rzimmerman@kcds.net Tue Jul 31 17:27:49 2001 f6VMRmZ25961 be forged)) Subject: Andy Royer virus...dont open attachment I believe Andy is a list member...he could have gotten the virus from thelist. I sent him an email to an address I had when I bought bamboo from himand it has not bounced yet. he is a nice fellow and probably doesnt knowhe's got it yet.Randy Zimmerman from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 17:27:53 2001 f6VMRpZ25981 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list Outlook express actually has more controls than Outlook2000. Under the Tools Pulldown pick options then the security tab. There are two security Zones - Internet and Restricted. You can pick one of the two and these correspond to security zones ininternet explorer. If you then open IE and pick Tools, options and security you'll see fourzones. Two of these are internet and restricted. There is a slider that allows you to pick what security level you want forthe Internet Zone and you can also set custom levels. I have it set ratherrestrictive thus I don't get hit by virus. Paul ----- Original Message ----- "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list I just checked MS's site and it looks like if you get the patches Outlookis improved after downloading them all .Presumably Outlook has since beenreleased with these patches and if you get it since MS have done somethingyou can make the adjustments because there is still no way I can evenafterdownloading every patch MS have for Outlook Express.Looks like they began fixing the problems on May 24th this year but Iwonder how many people are aware this patch exists if they don't have anITdept chasing these patches down? I confess to not being aware of thisuntilyou wrote though Eudora not having as many issues in the first place Ididn't see the need to change. Tony /**************** from MS site. *******************************/This update resolves a security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, and isdiscussed in Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-020. Download now topreventa malicious user from running an executable e-mail attachment on yourcomputer. This vulnerability exists because Internet Explorer does not handle MIME(Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) headers in HTML e-mails correctly.If a malicious user sends an affected HTML e-mail or hosts an affectede-mail on a Web site, and a user opens the e-mail or visits the Web site,Internet Explorer automatically runs the excecutable on the user'scomputer. If this occurs, the executable can take any action on thecomputer that the user can take, including adding, changing, or deletingdata, communicating with Web sites, or reformatting the hard drive. Thisupdate eliminates the vulnerability by correcting the way InternetExplorerhandles MIME headers in HTML e-mails, preventing e-mails fromautomaticallylaunching executable attachments. At 03:51 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Tony, You may want to take 30 sec or a minute max and find out what Outlookdoesbefore publishing things like this. from the tools pulldown select macro. select the security tab and you get three choices. low (not recommended) - runs everything. medium - you can chose to run them or not. High - only macros from trusted sources and you enter the sourcesunderthe "trusted sources" tab. In Outlook you are only going to get bit by a virus if you do somethinglikeopen an attachment. A lot of Eudora users in the office (our IT department USED TOrecommendEudora but now recommends Outlook because its safer) have been gettinghitwith the virus that are going around because they blindly openedattachments. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; "Rodmakers" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:06 PMSubject: Re: Attachments sent to the list The big problem amonst others with Outlook is you can't currently stopmacros that arrive with email from firing up so any virus that uses amacroto make the OS run the virus has a free run. Eudora and others allowyoutoprevent a macro running unless you specificaly want to run it. Also,youcan have Eudora include attachments as a part of the message ifpossiblerather than an attachment. This means that depending on the virus andhowit's designed to run you will often see a lot of garbage in the messageofan infected email, if you had Eudora set this way when ever a viruslikeKAK worm arrived you'd see garbage in the body of the message. If youreadthe message without opening it you'd see the letters KAK with variousextensions sprinkled around in the garbage. Provided you delete themessageand didn't run it you don't have a problem in this particular case.Theselittle advantages help a lot in staying out of harms way.Also, Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addressesofthe people you have stored there. Tony At 09:01 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unlessyoudisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life"is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, butthelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't workunderNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is aperfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won'tbespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Jul 31 17:41:05 2001 f6VMf4Z27555 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:41:00 +1000 Subject: Re: Virus, Malware Lessons FILETIME=[DF56D2E0:01C11A11] Tony: Neither of those pages respond correctly. Sean Tony Young wrote: Ok, but it took a while for the buggers to catch up :-) At 02:49 PM 7/31/01 -0700, oandc wrote: Gentlemen,I subscribe to a couple tech sites such as Techrepublic.com andTechtarget.com. The latter just did an article I thought some of youmight beinterested in. The URL is as follows. 04,00.html>http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/featuredTopic/0,290042,sid14_gci757304,00.htmlIt will provide a little info on the new viruses known as Malware. Sircamfalls into this catigory.Wayne K. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Tue Jul 31 17:55:05 2001 f6VMt4Z28704 Subject: color preserver Hello everyone, Last evening I saw something here about color preservers.I was wondering,does any one have any ideas about what would work fine on silk? I've tried gudebrod on a few practice lapsand it seems to work ok. Anysuggestions????????? Thanks, Jim Christman from cathcreek@hotmail.com Tue Jul 31 18:00:13 2001 f6VN0DZ29298 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:00:08 -0700 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:00:07 GMT Subject: ferrule making FILETIME=[8B4641B0:01C11A14] Anyone had problems making ferruels from solid bar? I have flubbed up two sets so far. Any words of wisdom out there? Thanks,Rob Robert ClarkeCatherine Creek Rodscathcreek@hotmail.comhttp://ccr_2.tripod.com/bamboo/index.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 18:10:44 2001 f6VNAgZ29835 Subject: Re: Andy Royer's message has a Virus so far.... :-) At 06:12 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Hi, Andy Royer's message has a virus. Interestingly I wasn't affected even though I use outlook express. Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jul 31 18:20:26 2001 f6VNKPZ00414 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list Paul, I'm sitting here looking at Outlook Express 5.5 and cannot find, in anypulldown menus, anything about Macros. Under the Tools pulldown there is anOptions. Options has a Security Tab but only two possible check boxes -- one finding the Macros option? M-D Tony, You may want to take 30 sec or a minute max and find out what Outlookdoesbefore publishing things like this. from the tools pulldown select macro. select the security tab and you get three choices. low (not recommended) - runs everything. medium - you can chose to run them or not. High - only macros from trusted sources and you enter the sourcesunderthe "trusted sources" tab. In Outlook you are only going to get bit by a virus if you do somethinglikeopen an attachment. A lot of Eudora users in the office (our IT department USED TO recommendEudora but now recommends Outlook because its safer) have been gettinghitwith the virus that are going around because they blindly openedattachments. Paul ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: ; "Rodmakers" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:06 PMSubject: Re: Attachments sent to the list The big problem amonst others with Outlook is you can't currently stopmacros that arrive with email from firing up so any virus that uses amacroto make the OS run the virus has a free run. Eudora and others allow youtoprevent a macro running unless you specificaly want to run it. Also, youcan have Eudora include attachments as a part of the message ifpossiblerather than an attachment. This means that depending on the virus andhowit's designed to run you will often see a lot of garbage in the messageofan infected email, if you had Eudora set this way when ever a virus likeKAK worm arrived you'd see garbage in the body of the message. If youreadthe message without opening it you'd see the letters KAK with variousextensions sprinkled around in the garbage. Provided you delete themessageand didn't run it you don't have a problem in this particular case.Theselittle advantages help a lot in staying out of harms way.Also, Eudora doesn't use Win doz address book to search for addressesofthe people you have stored there. Tony At 09:01 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I'm not sure why all feel that only people using Outlook will be theones to get these viruses. The virus is carried by the email message,specifically in the attachment. The message and attachment (unlessyoudisable attachments) will still be delivered to the mail client, nomatter which client you use. The way the virus is "brought to life" is computers (and have for the last 17 years) all day. Can someone"Explain it to me, Lucy?" Bob Smith wrote: At 02:48 PM 7/31/2001 +0200, dannyt wrote: I`ve been a long time user of Netscape both on Mac and PC, but thelatesversion of it stinks! Now I`m using Outlook Express and InternetExplorer.Does any other having problem with Netscape? danny More web pages are using Active-X extensions, which don't work underNetscape. You almost have to use Internet Explorer these days. Istill refuse to go with Outlook, though. The virus thing is aperfectexample of why I will continue to use Eudora. Free, full-featured,and if a virus makes it past my lines of defense, at least I won't bespamming the world . Bob Smithhttp://www.RealEstateMich.comPreview Properties.comBrighton, MI 48116 The only ISO-9002 Certified Residential andCommercial Real Estate Company in the World --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jul 31 18:23:53 2001 f6VNNpZ00711 Subject: Re: ferrule making HI Rob:I find that they work just fine. I center drill. Then I drill to the watercheck with a drill 2 sizes small. Then I ream up to sizes to what I want with a straight fluted reamer in the tailstock. Drill 12/64Ream 13/64Ream 14/64The double reaming seems to work just great. I am going to get a set of blind hole laps soon to assist in the seating of the male. The laps will make the inside of the female very smooth.Are you using a mandrel (drill rods are cheap) to turn the outside, or is te problem somewhere else?Thanks,Bob At 11:00 PM 7/31/2001 +0000, you wrote:Anyone had problems making ferruels from solid bar? I have flubbed up two sets so far. Any words of wisdom out there? Thanks,Rob Robert ClarkeCatherine Creek Rodscathcreek@hotmail.comhttp://ccr_2.tripod.com/bamboo/index.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from sats@gte.net Tue Jul 31 18:23:57 2001 f6VNNuZ00719 ; id f6VNNkX06151 Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list If there are pics etc you think we'd be interested in seeing how aboutuploading it to your site and posting the URL to people.I know it'll make life a lot easier to a lot of people. Tony, My feeling exactly. Anything I need to post to the list I put as a LINK in mye-mail, this simple technique allows me to send small messages with BIG graphicsassociated but not bound.----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Jul 31 18:57:58 2001 f6VNvvZ02204 Subject: Re:list member This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I thought I'd heard his name mentioned before.Didn't really figure it was him.Just ran a Scan, I'm clean.Do these viruses attach to the email or is someone using are namesto spread it? don't really understand viruses?Tony Miller BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Didn't really figure it was him.Just ran a Scan, I'm clean.Do these viruses attach to the email or is someone using are =namesto spread it? don't really understand viruses?Tony Miller from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Jul 31 19:02:17 2001 f7102HZ02559 +0000 Subject: Worms FYI... It would seem that Andy Royer has the latest and greatest worm. Dennis from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Jul 31 19:06:40 2001 f7106eZ02904 ;Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:06:35 +0000 Subject: RE: Andy Royer's message has a Virus Tony, Does that make him a bait fisherman? After all, he IS 'using' worms! ;-) Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Andy Royer's message has a Virus so far.... :-) At 06:12 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Hi, Andy Royer's message has a virus. Interestingly I wasn't affected even though I use outlook express. Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Jul 31 19:42:38 2001 f710gbZ03909 ;Wed, 1 Aug 2001 00:42:31 +0000 Subject: RE: Andy Royer's message has a Virus Tony, Sorry. That was a kind of regional joke. We have a friend here that we'vebeen riding because of his admitted use of bait. Of course I won't mentionany names... Didn't mean to offend anyone. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Andy Royer's message has a Virus That's unkind. I hope Andy gets a message through telling him about itbecause he's prob unaware it's happening. Mine to him have been bouncing. Tony At 08:07 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Dennis Haftel wrote:Tony, Does that make him a bait fisherman? After all, he IS 'using' worms! ;-) Dennis -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:06 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Andy Royer's message has a Virus so far.... :-) At 06:12 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Hi, Andy Royer's message has a virus. Interestingly I wasn't affected even though I use outlook express. Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jul 31 19:59:25 2001 f710xNZ04414 Subject: RE: Andy Royer's message has a Virus That's unkind. I hope Andy gets a message through telling him about itbecause he's prob unaware it's happening. Mine to him have been bouncing. Tony At 08:07 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Dennis Haftel wrote:Tony, Does that make him a bait fisherman? After all, he IS 'using' worms! ;-) Dennis -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:06 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Andy Royer's message has a Virus so far.... :-) At 06:12 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Hi, Andy Royer's message has a virus. Interestingly I wasn't affected even though I use outlook express. Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Jul 31 20:33:55 2001 f711XsZ05392 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:33:34 -0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: ferrule making All,Here is my procedure for female ferrules.... Female Ferrule (use 5/16" stock) #14 ? Put piece in chuck with 1/2" exposed.? Center drill? Drill 11/64" to a depth of .875"? Drill 7/32" to a depth of .875"? Expose piece 2" and install live center.? Groove a shoulder to a depth of .300", 1.78" from drilled end.? Turn whole piece to a diameter of .294"? Turn first .500" on drilled side to a diameter of .252" +/- .002"? Taper two dimensions together over approx. 3/8" leaving a .005" shoulder.? Cut off piece, and turn it around in chuck.? Face the end of the piece leaving a .090" shoulder (3/32").? Center drill? Drill 11/64" to a depth of .875"? Drill 15/64" to a depth of .875"? Ream with .250" reamer, put slight champher on the inside of the hole.? Cut serrations .200" deep.? Put piece on mandrel, sand/file outside of sleeve until outside dimensionis .290" +/- .002".? Taper serration and polish. RegardsTom Ausfeld ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: ferrule making HI Rob:I find that they work just fine. I center drill. Then I drill to thewatercheck with a drill 2 sizes small. Then I ream up to sizes to what Iwant with a straight fluted reamer in the tailstock. Drill 12/64Ream 13/64Ream 14/64The double reaming seems to work just great. I am going to get a set ofblind hole laps soon to assist in the seating of the male. The laps willmake the inside of the female very smooth.Are you using a mandrel (drill rods are cheap) to turn the outside, or iste problem somewhere else?Thanks,Bob At 11:00 PM 7/31/2001 +0000, you wrote:Anyone had problems making ferruels from solid bar? I have flubbed uptwosets so far. Any words of wisdom out there? Thanks,Rob Robert ClarkeCatherine Creek Rodscathcreek@hotmail.comhttp://ccr_2.tripod.com/bamboo/index.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 20:56:55 2001 f711usZ05932 SAA09201 Subject: attachments This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, In light of someone sending viruses to the list using members emails I =suggest we delete emails with attachments from members until they can be=varified by the sender before opening them. Sooner or later they are =going to use an active members name and email and if we open it because = And I dont mean in a good way! Adam Vigil Hi all, In light of someone sending viruses to = using members emails I suggest we delete emails with attachments from = until they can be varified by the sender before opening them. Sooner or = they are going to use an active members name and email and if we open it = we know them we will get caught with our pants down. And I dont mean in a good =way! AdamVigil from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 20:59:04 2001 f711x3Z06151 SAA20329 Subject: just for fun This is a multi-part message in MIME format. In the article about Harry's rod it mentioned Ron Kusse nailing cane =into boards. I thought I would give it a try. I split several 3/4 pine =boards in half hammering cane into them. It sure was fun Adam Ron Kusse nailing cane into boards. I thought I would give it a try. I = fun Adam from martinj@aa.net Tue Jul 31 21:06:58 2001 f7126vZ06552 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:06:47 -0700 Subject: RE: list member This is a multi-part message in MIME format. The virus's typically send email to everyone in your address book. Theycan keep sending even when it "appears" that you have closed Outlook. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re:list member I thought I'd heard his name mentioned before.Didn't really figure it was him.Just ran a Scan, I'm clean.Do these viruses attach to the email or is someone using are namesto spread it? don't really understand viruses?Tony Miller CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband- size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style- parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para- margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font- family:"Times New Roman";} The =virus’s typicallysend email to everyone in your address book. They can keep sending even when it “appears” =that you have closedOutlook. -----Original =Message-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: =Tuesday, July 31, =2001 4:58 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re:list =member before. Didn't really figure it was =him. Just ran a Scan, I'm clean. Do these viruses attach to the email or is someone using =are names to spread it? don't really understand =viruses? Tony Miller from Kengorific@aol.com Tue Jul 31 21:14:59 2001 f712EwZ06926 Subject: help with rod identification I fishing buddy of mine just inherited a bamboo rod from his father in law. I was hoping some of the list members might be able to tell me something of the rods quality or value. The rod needs some minor repairs (one snakeguide missing, some dings in the varnish) and I wanted to do some research, if the rod is a 'special' one I would send it to an expert rather than trust my novice hands. The rod is a 3 piece 9'-0 rod with two tip sections. The cane is flamed a medium honey color. The ferrules are a step down style, all the fittings appear to be nickle/silver. The guides are wraped in a medium brown silk, with a spiral reinforce wrap at the tip. Inspection of the missing guide area appears to indicate that one layer of thread was wrapped as a baseprior to mounting the guide (is this a common practice or the sign of a repair?) The words ART KADE "FLYCRAFT" appear on the butt section, my friendthinks it was purchased in the midwest around the 1930's. Any information would be helpful, we don't even know what line wt to use on it! I would like to locate a matching snake guide to replace the missing one and maybe polish the varnish to remove some hook dings. Other than thatthe rod appears to be used but in good condition. from martinj@aa.net Tue Jul 31 21:29:38 2001 f712TbZ07419 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:29:32 -0700 Subject: RE: Richard S. Pettepher The reason PC's get so many virus's is AGAIN, there's no point inwriting virus's for a Mac, because nobody uses them. Not that itcouldn't be done, it's easy. You have what, 90, 95% or greater usingPC's compared to a Mac OS? What would you do if you wanted to getnoticed? PS: I filtered out any messages from this Richard fella yesterday. Idon't know who the Hell he is but that message sure looked like spam tome. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher MAC's have had serious virus problems in the past but these were mainlyonboard the chip from the factory and there are virus around for themjustlike PCs. The reason PCs get the bloody things so often is two fold. Oneisthat it's just plain fun to pick on Bill and secondly there are so manysecurity breaches in Win it's almost too easy to be any fun writingviruswhich is the reason kiddy scripters can cause so much damage. Tony At 08:29 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I feel the need to reiterate what has been said in several messages.Ifyou don't want to get a virus, you need to do two things. First, getananti-virus software program installed on your system. Two, NEVER, EVERopen an attachment that you haven't asked for, especially if you don'tspecifically know who the sender is. Take those two steps and youwon'thave a problem at all. As a side note, I think I've said before that the reason the Mac-itesdon't ever get any viruses is because it isn't worth the trouble forthewriters of the viruses. What do the Macs have in market share? Lessthan 1% or something like that. What do you guys expect? Of course,this is coming from a devoted PC nut! ;^) Have a great day and DON'T OPEN THOSE ATTACHMENTS!-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from oandc@msn.com Tue Jul 31 21:41:40 2001 f712feZ07898 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:41:18 -0700 Subject: Books FILETIME=[713D6DB0:01C11A33] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Gentlemen,I would like to ask you to do a difficult thing. I would like a =recommendation for the best of the following three books. They are on =sale at Amazon and I can only buy one at this time. I have Wayne's book =and would like a little more detail. I don't want to put anyone on the =spot so you may reply off line at oandc@email.msn.com. The three books =are by the following authors.Maurer & ElserRay GouldJack HowellYour replys will of course remain anounomus.Thanks,Wayne Gentlemen,I would like to ask you to do a = would like a recommendation for the best of the following three books. = on sale at Amazon and I can only buy one at this time. I have Wayne's = would like a little more detail. I don't want to put anyone on the spot = may reply off line at oandc@email.msn.com. Thethree = Maurer & ElserRay GouldJack Howell anounomus.Thanks,Wayne from lblan@provide.net Tue Jul 31 21:44:16 2001 f712iFZ08172 Subject: RE: Richard S. Pettepher Actually, there are virii written for Macs. The Sub7 (I think) is one ofthem. One of the dangers Mac users face is being new to the threat, oroverly confident that there are no Mac virii! Those of us with PC's are usedto combatting these threats... Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Richard S. Pettepher The reason PC's get so many virus's is AGAIN, there's no point inwriting virus's for a Mac, because nobody uses them. Not that itcouldn't be done, it's easy. You have what, 90, 95% or greater usingPC's compared to a Mac OS? What would you do if you wanted to getnoticed?PS: I filtered out any messages from this Richard fella yesterday. Idon't know who the Hell he is but that message sure looked like spam tome. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Richard S. Pettepher MAC's have had serious virus problems in the past but these were mainlyonboard the chip from the factory and there are virus around for themjustlike PCs. The reason PCs get the bloody things so often is two fold. Oneisthat it's just plain fun to pick on Bill and secondly there are so manysecurity breaches in Win it's almost too easy to be any fun writingviruswhich is the reason kiddy scripters can cause so much damage. Tony At 08:29 AM 7/31/01 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:I feel the need to reiterate what has been said in several messages.Ifyou don't want to get a virus, you need to do two things. First, getananti-virus software program installed on your system. Two, NEVER, EVERopen an attachment that you haven't asked for, especially if you don'tspecifically know who the sender is. Take those two steps and youwon'thave a problem at all. As a side note, I think I've said before that the reason the Mac-itesdon't ever get any viruses is because it isn't worth the trouble forthewriters of the viruses. What do the Macs have in market share? Lessthan 1% or something like that. What do you guys expect? Of course,this is coming from a devoted PC nut! ;^) Have a great day and DON'T OPEN THOSE ATTACHMENTS!--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from timklein@qwest.net Tue Jul 31 22:06:52 2001 f7136pZ09183 (63.225.127.235) Subject: Re: Attachments sent to the list Paul Goodwin wrote: You may want to take 30 sec or a minute max and find out what Outlookdoesbefore publishing things like this. Thanks for the words of sanity Paul. Even freebie Outlook Express can be set up to disable scripts from running.You just have to take a minute or two and do it! The virus that's (probably) inadvertently being sent out by Mr. Pettepher isan executable file (not a script) that is just as likely to infect Eudorausers as anyone else. The simple message here is DON'T RUN ATTACHMENTSWITHOUT EXTREME CARE! As for mailing itself out, the worm searches for several different types ofaddress book files including those with .wab, .mbx, and .dbx extensions. Italso can use names found in the "Sent Items" folders of several programsincluding non-Microsoft products like Netscape. Now I'm not trying to stick up for Microsoft in any way, but the fact thatit's the dominant operating system out there is precisely why so manyviruses are targeted at it. If you decide to go away from the "mainstream"to protect yourself, then that's fine. You'll limit a lot of your choices,but that doesn't bother me in the least. A far wiser option, IMO, is tosimply protect yourself, then decide whether to use Mac, Linux, or somethingelse due to your needs. One last thing - My daughter triggered a virus a month or two ago thatslipped through Norton antivirus. I changed several of the settings inNorton and I haven't had any problem with the current spate of nasties. Themain ones I'd advise you to look at are "What to scan" under both the"Scanner" and "Auto- protect" sections, as well as "Scan a file when" under"Auto-protect". I found that .vbs files (Visual Basic Scripts) and .batfiles (along with a few others) don't get scanned by default andAuto-protect only checks files when they are downloaded. By changingsettings to check all files when scanning, running, and moving/copying,etc., I've avoided reinfection by files that find there way onto my system copied to a floppy from a school computer, then opened directly from thefloppy). I guess the message I'm trying to impart is, don't assume your antivirusprogram is set up in the best way to protect you. It's probably set up inthe way that least affects performance, requires the least intervention, andprotects MOST people. I found out the hard way that I'm not MOST people! Good luck to everyone!---Tim from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 31 22:07:54 2001 f7137rZ09357 Subject: Re: Andy Royer's message has a Virus Andy Royer's message IS the sircam virus! I've got Eudora and I wasn't affected either. My freeware virus protection identified it. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 06:12 PM 7/31/01 -0400, Paul Goodwin wrote:Hi, Andy Royer's message has a virus. Interestingly I wasn't affected even though I use outlook express. Paul from rmoon@ida.net Tue Jul 31 22:18:48 2001 f713IlZ09884 Subject: Virus I received a message from a Chris and Sandy Raine with a subject ofSpeyrod. I did not open the attachment. My mail system detected thatthe message had a suspicious file type and might contain hazerdousexecutable code. Ralph from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 31 22:42:02 2001 f713g1Z10569 Subject: email clients Holey Moley! I just scanned my C: and D: drives and the C: drive had over 25,000 files on it! A couple of notes. You guys running Eudora should check your settings. If you set up Eudora using the defaults, your attachment directory is probably Eudora/attach/. Now pull down (if you have the latest rev) the tools menu and select options. Now select attachments from the options menu. Check to make sure the 'delete messages whentrash is empted" is check. Otherwise the attachment remains in the Attach directory until some innocent user accidently executes it looking for another file. Also a note on Outlook. We use that at work. The email, attachments and all is stored in a .pst file. I do not know if that file can spawn the virus from inside it or not. It reminds me of the containment field in Ghostbusters. I am not sure some other external file couldn't set off the viruses in the .pst file. Sleep tight and don't let the virus bite,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from oandc@msn.com Tue Jul 31 22:45:55 2001 f713jtZ10812 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:45:32 -0700 Subject: Books FILETIME=[6AB5E4F0:01C11A3C] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks all for your feedback. The verdict was unanimous and I have = Wayne :^) Thanks all for your feedback. = unanimous and I have ordered the book. Wayne:^) from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jul 31 22:46:15 2001 f713kFZ10885 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Anyone know about Unimat mini metal lathes I was looking around at mini metal lathes (again) and my Dad suggested aUnimat.I researched it a bit and found older models, newer models and one I can'tseem tofind again that looked like it was made of plastic and aluminum??Would these be acceptable for making ferrules, reel seat inserts andhardware,and other things like winding checks or should I just splurge for a Sherline orTaig??Also what accessories would I need for the lathe? I assume I would needknurlingtools, reamers, and threading devices??? Any help?? Thanks, Shawn from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 31 23:12:50 2001 f714CnZ11924 Subject: Re: ferrule making Hi,I turn ferrules from bar stock. I bought reamers and screw machine length drills bits from J & L Industrial (bought the cheaper imported ones in 64th). I bought two of each drill. One I drill with and the second I cut the end off and sharpened it to use to square the bottom. For doing the drilling, I have a piece of plexiglas mounted to the tailstock rod and a dial indicator measures the depth of drill; same as "Varmint Al" has on his web page. I use collets to hold the ends of the ferrule while machining. I turned a brass arbor for a .008"/010" jewelers saw to fit a Dremmel tool. I use the jeweler saw in the Dremmel to slot the finished ferrule. The lathe chuck holds the ferrule. I index the chuck for each slot. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 11:00 PM 7/31/01 +0000, Robert Clarke wrote:Anyone had problems making ferruels from solid bar? I have flubbed up two sets so far. Any words of wisdom out there? Thanks,Rob Robert ClarkeCatherine Creek Rodscathcreek@hotmail.comhttp://ccr_2.tripod.com/bamboo/index.html _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from andy@w-link.net Tue Jul 31 23:21:19 2001 f714L9Z12358 Subject: AMAYAH 3-7-01 Hi! How are you=3F I send you this file in order to have your advice See you later=2E Thanks from richjez@enteract.com Tue Jul 31 23:41:26 2001 f714fQZ13074 Subject: Re: attachments --=====================_25002919==_.ALT Another option is that we send a second. following, email that an attachment was sent. I generally don't like attachments with email since using a dial up account is frustratingly slow with large attachments. The web page option seems good. There are free, simple web page hosts like the ones for the franken tools. Any suggestions on easy, free web pages?Rich (the uninfected one, hopefully) Jezioro At 08:59 PM 7/31/01, Adam Vigil wrote:Hi all, In light of someone sending viruses to the list using members emails I suggest we delete emails with attachments from members until they can be varified by the sender before opening them. Sooner or later they are going to use an active members name and email and if we open it because weknow them we will get caught with our pants down. And I dont mean in a good way! Adam Vigil --=====================_25002919==_.ALT Another option is that we send a second. following, emailthat an attachment was sent. I generally don't like attachments withemail since using a dial up account is frustratingly slow with largeattachments. The web page option seems good. There are free, simple web Any suggestions on easy, free web pages?Rich (the uninfected one, hopefully) Jezioro At 08:59 PM 7/31/01, Adam Vigil wrote:Hiall, In light of someone sending viruses tothe list using members emails I suggest we delete emails with attachments from members until they can be varified by the sender before openingthem. Sooner or later they are going to use an active members name andemail and if we open it because we know them we will get caught with ourpants down. And I dont mean in a goodway! AdamVigil