Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: Off subject --------------A19A3D9C45F81170C0D8E1B6 Perfectly safe after dried. Often used on salad bowls.John Z Rich Jezioro wrote: I was given a kitchen cart with a butcher block top that israw wood. I am looking at a can of Formby's Tung Oil Finishand wondering if it is OK to finish the butcher block top withit. The label warns about getting it in the eyes. It doesn'taddress the issue of using it on food surfaces. Does anyone know is it is OK to use it on the butcher bloketop? I cannot find a web site for Formbys or I would contactthem. Thanks,Rich Jezioro --------------A19A3D9C45F81170C0D8E1B6 Perfectly safe after dried. Often used on salad bowls.John ZRich Jezioro wrote:I was given a kitchen cart with abutcherblock top that is raw wood. I am looking at a can of Formby's Tung OilFinish and wondering if it is OK to finish the butcher block top with it.The label warns about getting it in the eyes. It doesn't address the issueof using it on food surfaces.Does anyone know is it is OK to use it on the butcherbloke top? I cannot find a web site for Formbys or I would contactthem.Thanks,Rich Jezioro --------------A19A3D9C45F81170C0D8E1B6-- from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Aug 9 11:31:53 2001 f79GVqZ15585 Subject: RE: Off Subject I wouldn't use Formby's if the surface was to come in contact with food. It's basically just thinned out interior tung oil-based varnish (not pure tung oil), and I don't think that's what you want. Behlen makes a "salad bowl finish", which is what I'd use. Liberon is one outfit that carries it: http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/ --Rich from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 9 12:18:17 2001 f79HIGZ17954 Subject: Another New Virus Well, this can be construed as good news or bad news. According to the infoon the following web page, the villans have targeted Adobe Acrobat with avirus called "Peachy". The good news is if you only use Acrobat READER, youwon't be infected, YET. The virus preys upon the ability of the .pdf file tocarry an "imbedded" attachment. Acrobat (but not Acrobat Reader),recognizes these attachment and runs them as part of the program. Readthe news release on this web page. http://www.zdnet.com/zdfeeds/msncobrand/news/0,13622,5095366,- hud00025ab,00.html Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from RHOLDER@SMURFIT.COM Thu Aug 9 13:12:25 2001 f79ICPZ20118 Subject: RE: Varnish Question I wanted to thank everyone that responded to my dilemma yesterday. Lastnight I put a good coat of Minwax Helmsman Spar finish on the rod. Whenchecked this morning things look alright so far. Now I don't have a dip or dripvarnishing station built, so it is brushing the varnish on for me until I getsomething built. Now the varnish coat went on fairly smooth with a fewareas the need retouching. Since it won't be until Sunday that I could workon the rod again. What is the best way to fix and finish the varnish that ison the rod and put a second coat on it? What I was going to do is lightlysand the areas that need fixing with 400 grit sandpaper then re- varnish theentire rod again with thinned down varnish (with mineral spirit). Will thatwork or is there a better way of finishing this rod? Robert H.Home email: b2g@jps.net Work email: rholder@smurfit.com from lblan@provide.net Thu Aug 9 14:30:39 2001 f79JUcZ23618 Subject: Re: Another New Virus http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm The notice I read stated that Acrobat would not automagically run the .vbsorother code. Some form of user interaction is necessary to allow them to run.It went on to state that the code, virus, or worm shows up as an attachmentto the .pdf file. Larry Blan Well, this can be construed as good news or bad news. According to theinfoon the following web page, the villans have targeted Adobe Acrobat with aviruscalled "Peachy". The good news is if you only use Acrobat READER, you won'tbe infected, YET. The virus preys upon the ability of the .pdf file to carryan "imbedded" attachment. Acrobat (but not Acrobat Reader), recognizestheseattachment and runs them as part of the program. Read the news releaseon thisweb page. http://www.zdnet.com/zdfeeds/msncobrand/news/0,13622,5095366,- hud00025ab,00.html Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com http://www.provide.net from anglport@con2.com Thu Aug 9 17:13:26 2001 f79MDPZ00100 Subject: Re: Another New Virus Larry,I love your new word! "automagically" Was that a slip of theindex-finger or a comment on how these boxes work?Art ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Another New Virus The notice I read stated that Acrobat would not automagically run the .vbsorother code. Some form of user interaction is necessary to allow them torun.It went on to state that the code, virus, or worm shows up as anattachmentto the .pdf file. om/computershopper/promos/microsites/gateway/index.html Larry Blan Well, this can be construed as good news or bad news. According to theinfoon the following web page, the villans have targeted Adobe Acrobat with aviruscalled "Peachy". The good news is if you only use Acrobat READER, youwon'tbe infected, YET. The virus preys upon the ability of the .pdf file tocarryan "imbedded" attachment. Acrobat (but not Acrobat Reader), recognizestheseattachment and runs them as part of the program. Read the news releaseonthisweb page. http://www.zdnet.com/zdfeeds/msncobrand/news/0,13622,5095366,- hud00025ab,00.html Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com http://www.provide.net from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Aug 9 19:49:41 2001 f7A0neZ04405 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:49:36 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:06:26 -0400 Subject: Straightening question How effectively can one straighten a wrapped and finished rod? The bend isprobably from problems I had with my binder when gluing, and inadequatestraightening prior to wrapping and varnishing. Any guidelines on howcarefull I need to be with my heat gun? I don't want to harm the varnish,but then I wonder if I can get the bamboo hot enough to make a difference.At worst I'll just fish the rod (it's for me not someone else). Thx...Andy from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Aug 9 19:57:17 2001 f7A0vHZ04880 Subject: Re: Straightening question Andy - You can very effectively straighten a varnished blank. Spar varnish is pretty heat resistant. I don't have much experience with the polys, but would be more careful. Apply the heat slowly, and bend or twist in the direction you need to go. Work slowly and carefully, and you should be OK. from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Aug 9 20:01:03 2001 f7A112Z05247 Subject: Re: Straightening question If the varnish is well cured and hard it will withstand enough heat tostraighten the rod without bubbling. Use the heat gun, not an open flameto warm the bamboo. Keep the rod moving back and forth while twirling itso as not to heat just one side. When it is hot enough to make you want tosay "owch" when you touch it, it's about right. from irish-george@chartermi.net Thu Aug 9 20:48:58 2001 [24.213.60.124] (may be forged)) f7A1mqZ07165 Subject: Re: Off subject This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Behlens makes a "salad bowl" finish that is made for contact with food. =Personally, I'd use something like that. George Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 8:11 PMSubject: Off subject I was given a kitchen cart with a butcher block top that is raw wood. =I am looking at a can of Formby's Tung Oil Finish and wondering if it is =OK to finish the butcher block top with it. The label warns about =getting it in the eyes. It doesn't address the issue of using it on food =surfaces. Does anyone know is it is OK to use it on the butcher bloke top? I =cannot find a web site for Formbys or I would contact them. Thanks,Rich Jezioro Behlens makes a "salad bowl" finish = that. George ----- Original Message ----- Jezioro Sent: Wednesday, August 08, = PMSubject: Off subjectI was given a kitchen cart with a = top that is raw wood. I am looking at a can of Formby's Tung Oil = wondering if it is OK to finish the butcher block top with it. The = about getting it in the eyes. It doesn't address the issue of using it = surfaces.Does anyone know is it is OK to use it on the butcher = them.Thanks,Rich =Jezioro from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Aug 9 20:56:01 2001 f7A1txZ07597 Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:52:01 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Straightening question Hi Andy,I've only done this once but it worked fine for me. First, Ibound the section to be straightened with thick cotton thread, going aboutthree or four inches in either direction onto the straight sections. I didthis because I was a bit paranoid about damaging the spar varnish. Thesection was then warmed gently over one of the slots in the family toaster(good tip from Tony Young) until I could bend it. The rod has stayedstraight as an arrow ever since and the varnish is as good as new. Hopethis helps.Mike -----Original Message----- How effectively can one straighten a wrapped and finished rod? The bend isprobably from problems I had with my binder when gluing, and inadequatestraightening prior to wrapping and varnishing. Any guidelines on howcarefull I need to be with my heat gun? I don't want to harm the varnish,but then I wonder if I can get the bamboo hot enough to make a difference.At worst I'll just fish the rod (it's for me not someone else). Thx...Andy from richjez@enteract.com Thu Aug 9 21:54:16 2001 f7A2sFZ10061 Subject: Off subject --=====================_5879222==_.ALT Thanks to all who replied. All but one person recommend 1 of 2 options.1. Use oils made for salad bowls or cutting bowls such as the one Woodcraft sells.2. Oils used for food such as salad, olive, corn, etc. oils. I will probably stop at Woodcraft on the way home tomorrow. That is no grantee that I will buy anything but there is a good chance I will. Unless someone at Woodcraft pi@#es me off or is totally stupid. Often they are one and the same. Thanks for the help. Will you eat at my house now? Rich Jezioro --=====================_5879222==_.ALT Thanks to all who replied. All but one person recommend 1 of2 options. 1. Use oils made for salad bowls or cutting bowls such as the oneWoodcraft sells.2. Oils used for food such as salad, olive, corn, etc. oils. I will probably stop at Woodcraft on the way home tomorrow. That is nograntee that I will buy anything but there is a good chance I will.Unless someone at Woodcraft pi@#es me off or is totally stupid. Oftenthey are one and the same. Rich Jezioro --=====================_5879222==_.ALT-- from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Aug 10 05:44:09 2001 f7AAi9Z18512 scanner-0.96 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4151. . Clean. Processed in 0.09121 secs);10 Aug 2001 10:43:31 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Straightening question Hi Andy, Not a problem. I do it all the time.It takes a far greater temp. tomelt the varnish than to soften the fibers of the cane. Use bare hands and alower setting on the heat gun. Marty Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: How effectively can one straighten a wrapped and finished rod? The bend isprobably from problems I had with my binder when gluing, and inadequatestraightening prior to wrapping and varnishing. Any guidelines on howcarefull I need to be with my heat gun? I don't want to harm the varnish,but then I wonder if I can get the bamboo hot enough to make a difference.At worst I'll just fish the rod (it's for me not someone else). Thx...Andy from cezeb@arnet.com.ar Fri Aug 10 07:24:08 2001 f7ACO6Z19739 0000 Subject: Beveler Machine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I only know the it schemes of Tom Morgan (and the planning form, of = C=E9sar of Tom Morgan (and the planning form, of course) but I want to know = C=E9sar from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Aug 10 07:57:40 2001 f7ACvdZ20504 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:57:40 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:53:30 -0400 Subject: RE: Straightening question Thanks for everyone's responses...Andy from homes-sold@home.com Fri Aug 10 09:00:03 2001 f7AE03Z23133 femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: surgical latex tubing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I told the list that Lowes Hardware carried latex tubing, well, they do = Lowes purchased Eagle Hardware here in the NW and immediately cut the =number of inventory items in half. Eagle carried all sizes, Lowes only =carries 1/4" now @ $1.40/ft. Lowes does have a good assortment of "O" = to check-out http://www.reefscuba.com/surgical_tubing.htmThey have all of the sizes we would be interested in. No interest and =all of that stuff....Don I told the list that Lowes Hardware = tubing, well, they do and they don't. Lowes purchased Eagle Hardware herein = immediately cut the number of inventory items in half. Eagle carried all = Lowes only carries 1/4" now @ $1.40/ft. Lowes does have a good = rings which I prefer for temp guide placement. latex tubing you may want to check-out http://www.reefscub=a.com/surgical_tubing.htmThey have all of the sizes we would be = in. No interest and all of that stuff....Don from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 10 10:34:30 2001 f7AFYTZ27223 Aug 2001 11:34:51 -0400 Subject: Flattening nodes Now that I have given it more of a try, I want to say with great confidence that putting a groove in the vise to accommodate the lip of the node is really ingenious. I have tried it several times and had good results, but today I removed the jaws from my bigger vise, flattened them, and put the groove in one side. Now I have great results.My wife came home to hear me talking to myself in the basement shop, "Holy *(%^!"She screamed down, "What is it? What's wrong!"SO now I have a whole rack of strips split out that I won't use because the nodes are too wide.Straight and flat strips to you all,Bob PS. Bret, got the plane back, your blanks are getting done as we speak. Please e-mail me, I lost your e-mail. from jmpio@nhbm.com Fri Aug 10 11:36:02 2001 f7AGa1Z29943 Subject: RE: Flattening nodes If you've got a rack full of split and straightened strips you won't use,send 'em to me :-). I hate node pressing and straightening. Seriously, though, it never occurred to me to flatten my vise jaws, justkind of assumed that sorta flat was good enough. It's simple enough to do,I think I'll do it tonight. Now, about this groove, how wide, how deepwould you recommend? -----Original Message----- Subject: Flattening nodes Now that I have given it more of a try, I want to say with great confidence that putting a groove in the vise to accommodate the lip of the node is really ingenious. I have tried it several times and had good results, but today I removed the jaws from my bigger vise, flattened them, and put the groove in one side. Now I have great results.My wife came home to hear me talking to myself in the basement shop, "Holy *(%^!"She screamed down, "What is it? What's wrong!"SO now I have a whole rack of strips split out that I won't use because the nodes are too wide.Straight and flat strips to you all,Bob PS. Bret, got the plane back, your blanks are getting done as we speak. Please e-mail me, I lost your e-mail. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 10 11:51:34 2001 f7AGpXZ00894 Subject: RE: Flattening nodes Hi:1. I said split, not straightened. If I bother to straighten, I use them! Seriously though, I will find a use for them, maybe for spinning rods for the kids or for demo rods. I sanded the nodes off ala Winston, They are huge compared to these ones.2. I used my hacksaw to get started, then I used a triangular file to cut the groove. It's width is a bit narrower than say a dime.3. I meant to say smoothed the jaws, not flattened. I am sorry to confuse. They had a cross hatch sort of knurl.Best regards, and let me know how you like it. Since it is a small cut, it doesn't really affect the jaws function otherwise. You will enjoy straightening more after this, believe it or not.Bob At 10:39 AM 8/10/2001 -0600, jmpio@nhbm.com wrote:If you've got a rack full of split and straightened strips you won't use,send 'em to me :-). I hate node pressing and straightening. Seriously, though, it never occurred to me to flatten my vise jaws, justkind of assumed that sorta flat was good enough. It's simple enough to do,I think I'll do it tonight. Now, about this groove, how wide, how deepwould you recommend? from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 10 14:15:52 2001 f7AJFpZ10570 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes HI Bill:I did not touch the enamel side of the node prior to flattening. I didn't soak the strips but I have in the past, and it works great. I did modify the node a bit before pressing. I draw a line down the side of the strip from the two humps that occur at the node. On the pith side, I hit the pith with a round file (used for fitting corks, etc...) in these two spots across the pith side creating two indentations that look like arches. Then, when you press the strips it displaces into the filed area and the strip is dead flat. (This is from the Schrooten book)Bob At 09:59 AM 8/10/2001 -0700, you wrote:Bob, did you file the ridges down on the culm beforesplitting? Do you soak your strips? Besides pressingthe nodes in the groove, did you modify your nodeflattening procedure to accomodate this new method, ifso, how? Thanks,Bill Walters from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Aug 10 14:19:10 2001 f7AJJAZ11171 f7AJJ3b11631 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Bob,I started using this method when it was posted a while back. It really makes adifference. The last three blanks have real small node areas. On some nodesthere is just a line where the ridge was. Lot easier to do the nodes too. I domine after I soak them No burning and the nodes don't seem to be hard liketheyare doing them dry.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: Now that I have given it more of a try, I want to say with great confidencethat putting a groove in the vise to accommodate the lip of the node isreally ingenious. I have tried it several times and had good results, buttoday I removed the jaws from my bigger vise, flattened them, and put thegroove in one side. Now I have great results.My wife came home to hear me talking to myself in the basement shop,"Holy*(%^!"She screamed down, "What is it? What's wrong!"SO now I have a whole rack of strips split out that I won't use because thenodes are too wide.Straight and flat strips to you all,Bob PS. Bret, got the plane back, your blanks are getting done as we speak.Please e-mail me, I lost your e-mail. from oandc@email.msn.com Fri Aug 10 14:51:26 2001 f7AJpPZ12910 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:51:21 -0700 Subject: Bokstrom training wheel plane FILETIME=[D45845B0:01C121D5] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hello all,I saw a picture of John Bokstrom's training wheel plane on Don Andersons =web page and was very interested in how it was constructed. Might there =be a drawing available out there? I was unable to locate one in the =archives. Thanks,Wayne Hello all,I saw a picture of John Bokstrom's = constructed. Might there be a drawing available out there? I was unable = locate one in the archives. Thanks,Wayne from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Aug 10 15:24:44 2001 f7AKOhZ14936 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:21:38 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Bob,I am assuming you are talking about the thickness of a dime and not thediameter??Thanks,Shawn Downandacross Rod Company wrote:It's width is a bit narrower than say a dime. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Aug 10 15:39:31 2001 f7AKdUZ15672 ;Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:39:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes I bought a set of magnetic jaw attachments which work just great forflattening nodes after heating. Jack from bob@downandacross.com Fri Aug 10 18:27:04 2001 f7ANR3Z23289 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes --=====================_38367851==_.ALT Hi Rex:Here is the info on the book:The book is Spiltcanerods for Fly-fishing by Hein S. Schrooten. I purchased it from Paul Morgan at Coch-y-Bonddu Books in England. Their website is http://www.anglebooks.comIt is a neat book with some nice jigs. Someone mentioned Schrooten's binder on the list a while back, and that is when I tracked down the book. It is one of those "You could build a rod with a butter knife and a heat gun" books. Some good ideas in it.Make sure you ask for the English version (of you so choose). Bob At 04:37 PM 8/10/2001 -0600, Rex Tutor wrote:BobCould I ask what book is the Schrooten ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com --=====================_38367851==_.ALT Hi Rex:Here is the info on the book:The book is Spiltcanerods for Fly-fishing by Hein S. Schrooten. Ipurchased it from Paul Morgan at Coch-y-Bonddu Books in England. Theirwebsite ishttp://www.anglebooks.comIt is a neat book with some nice jigs. Someone mentionedSchrooten's binder on the list a while back, and that is when I trackeddown the book. It is one of those "You could build a rod with abutter knife and a heat gun" books. Some good ideas in it.Make sure you ask for the English version (of you so choose). Bob At 04:37 PM 8/10/2001 -0600, Rex Tutor wrote:BobCould I ask what book is the Schrooten ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account athttp://About.com --=====================_38367851==_.ALT-- from irish-george@chartermi.net Fri Aug 10 19:29:13 2001 [24.213.60.124] (may be forged)) f7B0TCZ25105 Subject: Re: surgical latex tubing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Smaller sizes can often be found at hobby shops (model airplane fuel =lines) and laboratory supply shops. George Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 10:07 AM I told the list that Lowes Hardware carried latex tubing, well, they = Lowes purchased Eagle Hardware here in the NW and immediately cut the =number of inventory items in half. Eagle carried all sizes, Lowes only =carries 1/4" now @ $1.40/ft. Lowes does have a good assortment of "O" = want to check-out http://www.reefscuba.com/surgical_tubing.htmThey have all of the sizes we would be interested in. No interest and =all of that stuff....Don Smaller sizes can often be found at = shops. George ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 = AMSubject: surgical latex tubing = I told the list that Lowes Hardware = tubing, well, they do and they don't. Lowes purchased Eagle Hardware here= immediately cut the number of inventory items in half. Eagle carried = assortment of "O" rings which I prefer for temp guide placement. = latex tubing you may want to check-out http://www.reefscub=a.com/surgical_tubing.htmThey have all of the sizes we would = in. No interest and all of that stuff....Don from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Aug 10 19:43:05 2001 f7B0h5Z26434 ;Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:43:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Tony, Do you put the grooves in the pith side that Bob mentioned? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Tony Spezio wrote: Bob,I started using this method when it was posted a while back. It really makesadifference. The last three blanks have real small node areas. On somenodesthere is just a line where the ridge was. Lot easier to do the nodes too. I domine after I soak them No burning and the nodes don't seem to be hard liketheyare doing them dry.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: Now that I have given it more of a try, I want to say with greatconfidencethat putting a groove in the vise to accommodate the lip of the node isreally ingenious. I have tried it several times and had good results, buttoday I removed the jaws from my bigger vise, flattened them, and putthegroove in one side. Now I have great results.My wife came home to hear me talking to myself in the basement shop,"Holy*(%^!"She screamed down, "What is it? What's wrong!"SO now I have a whole rack of strips split out that I won't use becausethenodes are too wide.Straight and flat strips to you all,Bob PS. Bret, got the plane back, your blanks are getting done as we speak.Please e-mail me, I lost your e-mail. from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Aug 10 22:12:41 2001 f7B3CeZ02697 f7B3Cfb01658 Subject: Re: Flattening nodes Steve, I use a small band saw I have to cut a slight half moon cutout onthe pithside for displacement. The last three rods have literally no nodearea.Tony Steve Trauthwein wrote: Tony, Do you put the grooves in the pith side that Bob mentioned? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Tony Spezio wrote: Bob,I started using this method when it was posted a while back. It reallymakes adifference. The last three blanks have real small node areas. On somenodesthere is just a line where the ridge was. Lot easier to do the nodes too. Idomine after I soak them No burning and the nodes don't seem to be hardlike theyare doing them dry.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: Now that I have given it more of a try, I want to say with greatconfidencethat putting a groove in the vise to accommodate the lip of the node isreally ingenious. I have tried it several times and had good results, buttoday I removed the jaws from my bigger vise, flattened them, and putthegroove in one side. Now I have great results.My wife came home to hear me talking to myself in the basement shop,"Holy*(%^!"She screamed down, "What is it? What's wrong!"SO now I have a whole rack of strips split out that I won't use becausethenodes are too wide.Straight and flat strips to you all,Bob PS. Bret, got the plane back, your blanks are getting done as we speak.Please e-mail me, I lost your e-mail. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Aug 11 02:53:44 2001 f7B7rhZ06652 +0200 Subject: virus protection f7B7riZ06653 Hi Guys Can someone recommend a free, downloadableanti virus programme to be found on the net? thanks regards, carsten jorgensen from rjwlawed@msn.com Sat Aug 11 08:19:31 2001 f7BDJUZ10437 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 06:19:25 -0700 Subject: node straightening FILETIME=[3DC37F50:01C12268] hi fellas,i'v been reading the posts about this subject and it sounds like the wa=y to go, by actually straightening the fibers in the "humps". would a rec=ess in the face of the stationary jaw profiled in a mirror image of the "=average" node,so to speak, work for this process.? i am wondering if a st=raight notch in the face (the lenght of the nodal area) would allow the r=idgeto sink too low to allow it to be sanded off cleanly. i have yet to =actually see and work a culm in the rough,so these comments are based on =what i gather from reading your posts, maybe they are way out in left fie=ld,i really don't know. in general is the ridge (between the two "humps")=more or less on the same plane as the body of the culm, or highr or lowe=r?secondly, in the archives there are some posts about a process where o=ne would heat the jaws of a vice,and questions about what to use to heat =them. i am wondering if one would drill a hole in the edge of a vice jaw =face and use the element from a heavy duty "pencil" type soldering iron i=nserted in the hole to do this?. you could use some phenolic board(maybe =1/4 in. thick) to make insulators between the jaw faces and the body of t=he vice to keep the vice from being a heat sink.thirdly, has anyone tried steaming the nodal area, and then pressing i=t . a 2 in. dia. steel tube, capped at the bottom to hold some water with=two holes just big enough to insert the strip and heated with bunson bur=ner or small electric element would, i think, work great. you could even =put a couple small pieces of brush type weather stripping over the holes =to seal around the strip. i have seen larger versions of steamers like th=is used to soften small areas of oak for fairly sharp bends in boat build=ing. my learning process at work..........ron ward hi s like the way to go, by actually straightening the fibers in the "humps"=. would a recess in the face of the stationary jaw profiled in a mirror i=mage of the "average" node,so to speak, work for this process.? i am wond=ering if a straight notch in the face (the lenght of the nodal area) woul=d allow the ridge to sink too low to allow it to be sanded off cleanly. i=have yet to actually see and work a culm in the rough,so these comments =are based on what i gather from reading your posts, maybe they are way ou= n the two "humps") more or less on the same plane as the body of the culm= ere are some posts about a process where one would heat the jaws of a vic=e,and questions about what to use to heat them. i am wondering if one wou=ld drill a hole in the edge of a vice jaw face and use the element from a=heavy duty "pencil" type soldering iron inserted in the hole to do this?=. you could use some phenolic board(maybe 1/4 in. thick) to make insulato=rs between the jaw faces and the body of the vice to keep the vice from b= capped at the bottom to hold some water with two holes just big enough to=insert the strip and heated with bunson burner or small electric element=would, i think, work great. you could even put a couple small pieces of =brush type weather stripping over the holes to seal around the strip. i h= areas of oak for fairly sharp bends in boat building. &nbs= work.......=...ron ward from irish-george@chartermi.net Sat Aug 11 09:30:22 2001 [24.213.60.124] (may be forged)) f7BEULZ11444 Subject: Re: virus protection I know you didn't ask for a program that costs money, but you may want toconsider that both Hewlett Packard and Agilent Technologies use NortonAnti-Virus and it is only about $20 in OEM packaging. George ----- Original Message ----- Subject: virus protection Hi Guys Can someone recommend a free, downloadableanti virus programme to be found on the net? thanks regards, carsten jorgensen from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sat Aug 11 09:40:08 2001 f7BEe7Z11729 f7BEkeXD015278;Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:46:41 -0500 Subject: Re: virus protection Here is a site that my ISP (Road Runner) recommends on its homepage. http://www.thefreesite.com/Free_Software/Anti_virus_freeware/ However, I use Norton. Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX ----- Original Message ----- Subject: virus protection Hi Guys Can someone recommend a free, downloadableanti virus programme to be found on the net? thanks regards, carsten jorgensen from anglport@con2.com Sat Aug 11 09:45:51 2001 f7BEjoZ11999 Subject: Re: virus protection Carsten,This is also not quite what you requested, but if you have any CompUSAsor such near you, they often have the McAfee on sale with a full rebate (bymail) . It's the last edition, but it comes with the freedom to upgrade tothe newest edition by Web and then you can update for free forever. Youmight have to wait awhile, but if you find nothing else, it is an option.ArtArt----- Original Message ----- Subject: virus protection Hi Guys Can someone recommend a free, downloadableanti virus programme to be found on the net? thanks regards, carsten jorgensen from SBDunn@aol.com Sat Aug 11 12:12:07 2001 f7BHC7Z13301 Subject: Re: virus protection I've been happy with the "AVG" anti-virus software that you download forfree at www.grisoft.com. No commercial interest... Regards, Steve. I've been happy with the"AVG" anti-virus software that you download for free Regards, Steve. from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Aug 11 12:52:56 2001 f7BHqtZ13966 f7BHqtb00429 Subject: Planing Form E address Ron's E address was posted several days ago. Idon't know where I saved it, old age I guess.Can that person send it to me off list.Thanks, Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from archbee@msn.com Sat Aug 11 13:34:43 2001 f7BIYhZ14583 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:34:30 -0700 Subject: Tunnel or trumpet guides FILETIME=[4238AFC0:01C12294] Am reconditioning an antique boat rod and am in need if these missing gui=des (2). Can any one help? Richard Berger E-mail: archbee@msn.com T=hanks!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :http://explore=r.msn.com Amrecondition= Thanks!Get more from the Web. FREE MSNExpl=orer download : http://explorer.msn.c=om from jfoster@gte.net Sat Aug 11 14:24:46 2001 f7BJOjZ15144 MAA07523 Subject: [Fwd: help again] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 7414E7CDA0085C71602E3734 Can someone help Lorie again thanks jerry --------------7414E7CDA0085C71602E3734 Subject: help again This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Jerry, Once again I need a favor. Among other things, I really don't want to =lurk on the list so I am hoping you will help. I need to get in touch with George Fraley. I suspect Darrell Whitehead =might know where he might be. I also suspect someone on the list might =know how to get in touch with one or both of these gentlemen. BTW: The page looks great. Lori Lohman Hi Jerry, = help. I need to get in touch with George = someone on the list might know how to get in touch with one or both of = gentlemen. great. LoriLohman --------------7414E7CDA0085C71602E3734-- from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Sat Aug 11 15:56:51 2001 f7BKupZ16080 Subject: catskill Does anyone have any of the registration info for the Catskill gathering? Thanks , Jim Christman from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Sat Aug 11 15:59:32 2001 f7BKxVZ16289 Subject: from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Sat Aug 11 16:44:21 2001 f7BLiJZ16935 +1200 "dnorl@qwest.net" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: RE: hydrometer A hydrometer is used to measure specific gravity (density), not viscosity. The reading could be used to measure a loss of solvent if it was evaporating from whatever the vessel it is in. If solvent was evaporating, the viscosity would increase. Thus, the hydrometer is sort of relevant, but not a direct measurement.If you want to measure viscosity, the easiest way (at home) is to make a small cup with a hole drilled in the bottom. Put your finger over the hole while you fill the cup. Take your finger away and measure how many seconds elapse until it stops running in a continuous flow. If you wanted to compare results with other people or manufacturers, you would need tostart using standard viscosity cups from a scientific warehouse, and pay attention to temperature, as these tests are normally done under controlled temp. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: hydrometer dave, how do you use a hydrometer to measureviscosity? timothy --- Dave Norling wrote:Anyone tried using a hydrometer to keep track ofvarnish viscosity? There isn't anything in thearchives. I bought one yesterday to try.Dave Norling ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from harry37@gbronline.com Sat Aug 11 18:10:24 2001 f7BNANZ18927 18:07:24 2001 -0500 Subject: Re: surgical latex tubing --------------6D12097958EADF17439E72DA See if you have ant friends that work in healthcare. Ask them to getyou urinary catheters (New would be preferrred) Cut your own bands witha razor knife. If I remember correctly, a #7FR will hold guide feet ona 4/64 diameter blank.Greg Don Schneider wrote: I told the list that Lowes Hardware carried latex tubing, well, theydo and they don't.Lowes purchased Eagle Hardware here in the NW andimmediately cut the number of inventory items in half. Eagle carriedall sizes, Lowes only carries 1/4" now @ $1.40/ft. Lowes does have agood assortment of "O" rings which I prefer for temp guideplacement.For those of you that are looking for surgical latex tubingyou may want to check- outhttp://www.reefscuba.com/surgical_tubing.htmThey have all of the sizeswe would be interested in. No interest and all of that stuff....Don --------------6D12097958EADF17439E72DA get you urinary catheters (New would be preferrred) Cut your own bands feet on a 4/64 diameter blank.GregDon Schneider wrote: Itold the list that Lowes Hardware carried latex tubing, well, they do andthey don't.LowespurchasedEagle Hardware here in the NW and immediately cut the number of inventoryitems in half. Eagle carried all sizes, Lowes only carries 1/4" now @ $1.40/ft.Lowes does have a good assortment of "O" rings which I prefer for tempguide placement.For thoseof you that are looking for surgical latex tubing you may want to check- outhttp://www.reefscuba.com/surgical_tubing.htmTheyhave all of the sizes we would be interested in. No interest and all ofthat stuff....Don --------------6D12097958EADF17439E72DA-- from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sat Aug 11 18:12:32 2001 f7BNCVZ19047 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:34:19 -0400 Subject: Heat treating Epon Glued up my first rod today, celebrating tonight. Right now don't see anyglue lines but then again I am looking from 20 feet across the garage.Everything looks good from the proper distance. Used epon and plan to let it setup tonight. I would like to heat treat theepon tomorrow although I have a long list of other things that have to bedone. from what I can gather from the website someone posted recently,epontakes 7 days to fully cure (828 resin, 3140 curing agent). Is trying toheat treat the epon within 24 hours rushing it? How I had planned to heattreat the rod was to heat it at 200* for 20 minutes and then drop thetemperature to 100* for 6 hours. The last 6 hours meant to drive offadditional moisture. Does that seem to be on the right track? It may alsobe better to wait for that final heating until just prior to varnishing. Got to say that it has gone alot smoother than I thought it would. Only hadproblems with digging out one node, tolerances seem to be within an averageof .002 to .003 which is acceptable for the first rod in my book and thetips didn't break in the binder. Course with all that said I have probablyjinxed myself and all three sections will explode in the lathe when I try tomount ferrules and reel seat. What the heck. This first rod was to learnthe tools and develop 'my' process, the second will focus on meetingacceptable tolerances and the third will stress final appearance and finish.So far I have learned alot about my tools and the process I want to use. Not done yet by a long shot, but thanks to the list for all the help andsupport I have received over the last year. This has really been fun! Tim from rextutor@about.com Sat Aug 11 19:11:28 2001 f7C0BRZ20055 (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: Heat treating Epon TimSorry I can't help you with the glue question, I use Titebond II but I have one for you. DO you have a small lathe ? I have a Sherline. I was wondering if you have it worked out how you are going to protect the bamboo in the lathe ? Do you make collars ? What do you support the other end (far from the ferrule station) of the rod to elimate wobble ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sat Aug 11 19:27:49 2001 f7C0RnZ20347 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:27:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat treating Epon Rex, Well I think I have it worked out but I don't know if it will work. Idrilled a hole in a piece of wood the diameter of a cork ring. I then glueda ring into it and added a base. I'm hoping that will control the wobble orat least some of it. I might also wrap some tape around the blank where itpasses through the cork. I too have a Sherline and will also control some of the wobble by slowingthe speed down as necessary. Like I say I'm not certain it will work but I'll hit the switch and adjust from there. Tim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Heat treating Epon TimSorry I can't help you with the glue question, I use Titebond II butI have one for you.DO you have a small lathe ? I have a Sherline. I was wondering if youhave it worked out how you are going to protect the bamboo in thelathe ? Do you make collars ? What do you support the other end (far from the ferrule station) of the rod to elimate wobble ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from bob@downandacross.com Sat Aug 11 19:34:16 2001 f7C0YFZ20600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Planing Form E address aldercreek@core.com At 12:55 PM 8/11/2001 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote:Ron's E address was posted several days ago. Idon't know where I saved it, old age I guess.Can that person send it to me off list.Thanks, Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Aug 11 19:40:10 2001 f7C0e9Z20868 Subject: Scarfing Help Needed Building nodeless, I just tried Hans Kohl's method for the first time whereI actually use a Disc Sander to make the scarfs. The method is sure quickbut I am getting lots of failures in the glue in the scarf joint. UsingTitebond II. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from bob@downandacross.com Sat Aug 11 19:49:48 2001 f7C0nlZ21161 Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Howdy Joe:Use the plane. I swear that I tried everything for nodeless, and bought the 12" disc sander and all. Planing the strips always worked best for me. I am kind of looking for a blonde rod, maybe I will have to get the splice block out.Bob At 08:38 PM 8/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:Building nodeless, I just tried Hans Kohl's method for the first time whereI actually use a Disc Sander to make the scarfs. The method is sure quickbut I am getting lots of failures in the glue in the scarf joint. UsingTitebond II. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from channer@frontier.net Sat Aug 11 21:43:47 2001 f7C2hkZ22629 Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Joe;The sanding disk is polishing the surface of the bamboo so the the gluewon't sink in and make a good bond. Try either making a pass or two withthe plane in the scarfing block, or wipe the surface with a damp rag to"raise" the grain again.John Bamboo Joe wrote: Building nodeless, I just tried Hans Kohl's method for the first time whereI actually use a Disc Sander to make the scarfs. The method is sure quickbut I am getting lots of failures in the glue in the scarf joint. UsingTitebond II. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Aug 12 01:10:11 2001 f7C6ABZ28314 XAA06772 Subject: turning a grip This is a multi-part message in MIME format. This is how I turn a grip and may be helpful to some.I glue up the rings but instead of mounting it on the blank I do it on a =steel rod. Before the glue is totally hard I tap out the rod and let the =rings dry. Once dry I reinsert the rod snugly and mount it in my drill =press, I wish I had a lathe. I turn the cork down taking measurements as =I go. This way I do not have to spin my blank in a lathe. And if I dont like =the handle I can always do another and use the first one on a differant =rod. Adam Vigil This is how I turn a grip and may be = some.I glue up the rings but instead of = the blank I do it on a steel rod. Before the glue is totally hard I tap = rod and let the rings dry. Once dry I reinsert the rod snugly and mount = drill press, I wish I had a lathe. I turn the cork down taking = go. When done I mount it on the blank let = This way I do not have to spin my blank= And if I dont like the handle I can always do another and use the first = differant rod. AdamVigil from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Aug 12 07:31:37 2001 f7CCVaZ03178 Sun, 12 Aug 2001 05:24:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Last weeks virus (and death of a flyfisher) Andy, No one on this list who knows you ever thought you weresending the virus tothe list intentionally. I cannot imagine anyone doingthat. You are an assetto the list and to rodmakers everywhere. The tragic news of Angel's death both shocks and saddensthose of us who hadmet her. Her unique personality always delighted those whomet her. Though wemet only once, during her visit to the first SouthernRodmakers Gathering, I'msure all who were present will remember her. In fact, Angelis in one of thepictures from that Gathering on my website. Please know that you and especially your daughter willbe in our thoughtsand prayers. If we can help in other ways, just let usknow. Harry Boyd Andy Royer wrote: --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Aug 12 14:54:37 2001 f7CJsaZ09007 Subject: Re: turning a grip This is how I turn a grip. First ream and glue all the rings on a blank. Second wait until the next day, take the clamps off the grip and place it in the lathe. Third, turn the grip down too small as the cork check is now larger than the end piece of cork. Fourth, file off all the cork. Fifth, glue new cork on blank. repeat steps two through five. I love building rods. Regards,Mike Shay This is how I turn a grip. First ream and glue all the rings on a blank. Second wait until the next day, take the clamps off the grip and place itin the lathe. Third, turn the grip down too small as the cork check is now larger thanthe end piece of cork. Fourth, file off all the cork. Fifth, glue new cork on blank. repeat steps two through five. I love building rods. Regards,Mike Shay from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Aug 12 16:10:29 2001 f7CLASZ10876 +0200 Subject: Sv: virus protection f7CLATZ10877 Gentlemen of the List Have found what I needed thanks to You.Thank You for the assistance. regards, Carsten Jorgensen www.daniaflyrods.com ----- Original Message -----From: "Carsten Jorgensen" Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 4:00 AMSubject: virus protection Hi Guys Can someone recommend a free, downloadableanti virus programme to be found on the net? thanks regards, carsten jorgensen from rmoon@ida.net Sun Aug 12 18:06:35 2001 f7CN6YZ12379 0000 Subject: Re: Straightening question Andrew You can do it, but it requires some patience and skill. Do notuse a heat gun or electric element or toaster or any thing elsesimilar. You need an alcohol lamp>>>>> The heat should be appliend in2 or 3 second bursts and then allow the piece to cool. IThe techniqueis like grilling a steak. You want it rare, you sear the hell out ofthe outside, but the center will still be cold. You want it well done,you do it far from the heat. The premise is that the heat needs topenetrate clear through the rod section without ever getting theoutside to scorch. Do it in about 1"increments, and be prepared to spend a long time. It may take a coupleof yours or so. I would practice on an old section if you can.Ralph from cphisey@neca.com Sun Aug 12 18:30:01 2001 f7CNU0Z12841 0400 "bamboo" Subject: Re: catskill Jim ,Go to this web site http://www.canerod.com/Gatherings/Index.htmland look up registration for Catskill 2001Charles Hisey ----- Original Message ----- Subject: catskill Does anyone have any of the registration info for the Catskill gathering? Thanks , Jim Christman from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Aug 12 22:01:58 2001 f7D31vZ18773 Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:01:52 -0700 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:01:52 GMT Subject: Douglas Duck FILETIME=[4DCA0B20:01C123A4] I heard that Douglas Duck died Thursday of last week. Source was a reliable one but it has not been confirmed by a second source.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 12 23:21:22 2001 f7D4LLZ21463 Subject: Heat gun twin heat hot air gun, 600 and 1000 degrees, on sale for $12.97. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from rvenneri@ulster.net Mon Aug 13 04:52:35 2001 f7D9qYZ00971 0400 Organization: Venneri's Custom Components Subject: test this is a test is any body out there from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Aug 13 05:47:15 2001 f7DAlFZ01566 scanner-0.96 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4151. . Clean. Processed in 0.090218secs); 13 Aug 2001 10:46:44 -0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: One-piece rod I never said it was impossible to make a long 1pc. rod on a short form. Thefirst 3 rods I made were made on unadjustable Herters style V block,Stanley 91/2' plane W/ standard blade ,heat treated in a iron pipe with aburnzamatic torch and the strips were bound by hand without a binder. Theend result was just as good as now using a Bellinger form, Bellingerbinder, Bellinger rough cut beveller, Lei Neilson planes W/ hock bladesand heat treating oven. The only difference is I cut the manufacture time Ralph Moon wrote: Ed I have made 7 1/2 one piece rods on 60" forms. No great problem.Tryspiraling a four weight 6-7 footer and you not believe that anythingcould be so great.Ralph from channer@frontier.net Mon Aug 13 07:35:36 2001 f7DCZZZ02570 Subject: South Bend female ferrule Does anyone have a chrome plated SB female that will fit a male that hasan 11/64ths outside measurement? TIAJohn from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 13 07:46:28 2001 f7DCkRZ02904 (may be forged)) Aug 2001 08:43:08 -0400 Subject: Milling cutters Finally, dragged my milling machine into the shop and am wondering where to start when it comes to buying some useful cutters for it. Any recommendations? Do I just need a good end mill set? I want to be able to make some simple jigs and things like new vice jaws, a bed for a Medved style beveller, etc...Thanks in advance.Bob from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Aug 13 08:23:18 2001 f7DDNHZ04439 GAA18890; GAA28460; f7DDND522428; (5.5.2650.21) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,"'jcbyrd@direct-pest.com'" Subject: RE: Scarfing Help Needed when you sand you leave nothing but a bunch of shredded fibers. Sand paperis rocks glued to paper and if you want a good glue joint you have to cleavethe fibers with a plane. When you glue sanded joints its like gluing two bundlesof broom fibers together, the glue surface is only as big as the width of eachfiber and they are only as strong as their thickness where they attach to theculm. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 5:38 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Scarfing Help Needed Building nodeless, I just tried Hans Kohl's method for the first time whereI actually use a Disc Sander to make the scarfs. The method is sure quickbut I am getting lots of failures in the glue in the scarf joint. UsingTitebond II. Any suggestions. Thanks in advance Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Aug 13 08:57:12 2001 f7DDvBZ05498 Subject: Vice Jaws dmanders@telusplanet.net Guys/Gals, The steel vice jaws are not normally parallel so I made a set of aluminumjaws that attach to the vice. The aluminum bar is flat and requires minimumfiling. Further, aluminum accepts and gives up heat more readily than steelallowing the cane to cool in the vice quite a bit faster. I dedicate a vicejust to straightening. The aluminum jaws were mounted with epoxy. regards, Don from utzerath@execpc.com Mon Aug 13 09:31:01 2001 f7DEV0Z06919 f7DEV1q95783; f7DEUxQ29372; Subject: Re: Douglas Duck Al,There's a nice tribute to him recently posed at the bulletin board:http://www.wisflyfishing.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html The posterincluded ashort article and a picture.Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: Douglas Duck I heard that Douglas Duck died Thursday of last week. Source was areliableone but it has not been confirmed by a second source.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from bstotz@ma.ultranet.com Mon Aug 13 09:32:42 2001 f7DEWfZ07110 Subject: Re: Refinishing Surf Rod. First, I want to thank each and every one of you that responded. Itwas almost overwhelming! I now know just how I am going to approach thatjob.Somebody asked me about the "taper" of the rod. I have no idea whatthe taper is, but if someone can tell me how to go about measuring the taperI will do that! I assume that it is a measurement in thousandths or mmacross the flats of the rod taken at certain distances from the tip.I have NO experience with bamboo, so any information I get from thislist is virtually all new to me!!Thanks again and I think I'll just hang around awhile and gatherinformation!!Regards,Bill Stotz --------------------------|We ask a simple question | And this is what we wish: |"Are fishermen all liars? |Or do only liars fish?" |--------------------------| from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 13 10:44:53 2001 f7DFikZ10501 Subject: RE: Scarfing Help Needed That's right. When gluing you need as thin a glue line as possible and thatmeans planed and preferably freshly planed surfaces. If you sand it's ok toget it to the rough stage but it should planed before scarfing. Tony At 06:23 AM 8/13/01 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:when you sand you leave nothing but a bunch of shredded fibers. Sand paperis rocks glued to paper and if you want a good glue joint you have tocleave the fibers with a plane. When you glue sanded joints its like gluingtwo bundles of broom fibers together, the glue surface is only as big asthe width of each fiber and they are only as strong as their thicknesswhere they attach to the culm. /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html This is the Way for men who want to learn my strategy:Perceive those things which cannot be seen.Pay attention even to trifles. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from rmcelvain@uswest.net Mon Aug 13 13:14:51 2001 f7DIEoZ21212 (63.230.5.171) Subject: Re: Heat treating Epon I put one layer/wrap of masking tape over the cane in the area gripped bythe lathe chuck. One layer of tape keeps the rod centered. I have a Taig3-jaw chuck which is very small and I don't over-tighten. At the other endI took a 6 inch piece of 1x4 and drilled a 1" hole. I place the board in avise on the bench and position the hole to align approximately with thecenterline of the spindle. I wrap the rod with a generous amount ofmasking tape where it goes through the board, about 6 inches from the tip,wobble seems to be minor. I run the lathe slowly, it seems to work OK. Ihave a small Craftsman lathe, Model 109, and I had to have a machinistdrill/ream the spindle to a larger ID to accept the typical butt sectiondiameter. Bob McElvain At 06:17 PM 8/11/2001 -0600, you wrote:TimSorry I can't help you with the glue question, I use Titebond II but I have one for you. DO you have a small lathe ? I have a Sherline. I was wondering if you have it worked out how you are going to protect the bamboo in the lathe ? Do you make collars ? What do you support the other end (far from the ferrule station) of the rod to elimate wobble ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from djk762@earthlink.net Mon Aug 13 13:59:04 2001 f7DIx3Z23464 LAA25750; Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Rodmakers- I know of two rodmakers who use a sanding disc exclusively for theirnodeless-they have been for years. Fished hard,no problems, many sales. -David Kashuba. Tony Young wrote: That's right. When gluing you need as thin a glue line as possible and thatmeans planed and preferably freshly planed surfaces. If you sand it's ok toget it to the rough stage but it should planed before scarfing. Tony At 06:23 AM 8/13/01 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:when you sand you leave nothing but a bunch of shredded fibers. Sandpaperis rocks glued to paper and if you want a good glue joint you have tocleave the fibers with a plane. When you glue sanded joints its like gluingtwo bundles of broom fibers together, the glue surface is only as big asthe width of each fiber and they are only as strong as their thicknesswhere they attach to the culm. /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html This is the Way for men who want to learn my strategy:Perceive those things which cannot be seen.Pay attention even to trifles. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from briansr@point-net.com Mon Aug 13 15:13:00 2001 f7DKCxZ29499 Subject: Fw: lost rod-builder Hi ganghere's a request from the Euro FF listCheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: lost rod-builder I'm trying to track down Hein Schrooten - the Dutch split-canerod-builder.Any ideas? A phone-number or email address would be great.ThanksPaul Paul Morgan Old & New Books on Fishing & Field SportsCoch-y-Bonddu Books, Machynlleth, Wales SY20 8DJ, U.K.Tel 01654-702837 Fax 01654-702857email paul@anglebooks.com www.anglebooks.comhome email paulmorgan@zetnet.co.uk from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 13 17:19:13 2001 f7DMJCZ04385 Subject: Re: Fw: lost rod-builder I bet he ran out of Hein's book after the big run on them caused by my post the other day.Bob At 04:08 PM 8/13/2001 -0400, brian sturrock wrote:Hi ganghere's a request from the Euro FF listCheers Brian----- Original Message -----From: "paul morgan" Sent: August 13, 2001 3:15 PMSubject: lost rod-builder I'm trying to track down Hein Schrooten - the Dutch split-canerod-builder.Any ideas? A phone-number or email address would be great.ThanksPaul Paul Morgan Old & New Books on Fishing & Field SportsCoch-y-Bonddu Books, Machynlleth, Wales SY20 8DJ, U.K.Tel 01654-702837 Fax 01654-702857email paul@anglebooks.com www.anglebooks.comhome email paulmorgan@zetnet.co.uk from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon Aug 13 18:21:16 2001 f7DNLFZ05612 0400 Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed What are they using to glue their scarf's? What grit paper? I had several failures on the scarf's using a disc sander. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Rodmakers- I know of two rodmakers who use a sanding disc exclusively for theirnodeless-they have been for years. Fished hard,no problems, many sales. -David Kashuba. Tony Young wrote: That's right. When gluing you need as thin a glue line as possible andthatmeans planed and preferably freshly planed surfaces. If you sand it's oktoget it to the rough stage but it should planed before scarfing. Tony At 06:23 AM 8/13/01 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:when you sand you leave nothing but a bunch of shredded fibers. Sandpaperis rocks glued to paper and if you want a good glue joint you have tocleave the fibers with a plane. When you glue sanded joints its likegluingtwo bundles of broom fibers together, the glue surface is only as big asthe width of each fiber and they are only as strong as their thicknesswhere they attach to the culm. /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html This is the Way for men who want to learn my strategy:Perceive those things which cannot be seen.Pay attention even to trifles. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Aug 13 18:41:16 2001 f7DNfFZ06095 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:34:25 -0700 Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Joe, and all.... I wonder if bamboo has a grain which could be raised and whiskered offbefore gluing? Many hardwoods certainly do (cherry, maple, walnut, forexample). If one could raise the grain caused by sanding, then shave thatgrainoff with a file or even steel wool, perhaps the problems with sanded scarfswould be eliminated. Obiously I don't know if any of this is relevant. Justsome thoughts. Harry Bamboo Joe wrote: I had several failures on the scarf's using a disc sander. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bob@downandacross.com Mon Aug 13 18:50:56 2001 f7DNotZ06669 Aug 2001 19:51:17 -0400 Subject: Question for Hand Mill users who have swelled butts Hi guys:(Did that get your attention? It's pertinent, really.)Here's a thought, but I need some perspective. Instead of using the washers, why not take a long piece of shim stock, make holes for the anvil screws, and use that under the anvil instead. It would be quick and painless. I see Travers and others sell 3 foot long shim stock ground to close tolerances. Someone tell me why that would not work.What am I missing?Thanks,Bob from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Mon Aug 13 19:54:20 2001 f7E0sJZ08793 2001 17:54:20 PDT Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Guess I don't know what is so difficult about takingthe scarf close with the sanding disk and using theplane to polish off with, giving a clean glueingsurface. Bill Walters --- Harry Boyd wrote:Joe, and all.... I wonder if bamboo has a grain which could beraised and whiskered offbefore gluing? Many hardwoods certainly do (cherry,maple, walnut, forexample). If one could raise the grain caused bysanding, then shave that grainoff with a file or even steel wool, perhaps theproblems with sanded scarfswould be eliminated. Obiously I don't know if anyof this is relevant. Justsome thoughts. Harry Bamboo Joe wrote: I had several failures on the scarf's using a discsander. --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Aug 13 20:10:06 2001 f7E1A5Z09226 Subject: Re: Milling cutters In a message dated 08/13/2001 8:47:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Hi Bob,Yes, a good set of end mills should do it.I use two flute cutters on aluminum and four flute cutters onsteel. Probably a set from around 1/8in. to 3/4in. should be good.You do have collets for your mill, I assume. That's the only way to do it. Don't use your drill chuck.. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Aug 13 21:47:45 2001 f7E2ljZ11046 TAA15295 Subject: Nodeless whats the deal? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I build nodeless rods and have tried using the disc sander. I found that =it takes about the same time as a sharp plane does. To plane a scarf =just set that plane to "HOG OFF MATERIAL" and have at it. About 8 passes =does it, than a pass with it on "FINE". It takes about 3 minutes to do it and thats even a final with a pass =with a file. I am sure sanding is just fine but it does not save time = If you really want to save time rig up a deal with a router and a =laminate trim bit and have at it. Adam Vigil I build nodeless rods and have tried = To plane a scarf just set that plane to "HOG OFF MATERIAL" and have at = 8 passes does it, than a pass with it on "FINE". It takes about 3 minutes to do it and = final with a pass with a file. I am sure sanding is just fine but it = save time for me. If you really want to save time rig up = a router and a laminate trim bit and have at it. AdamVigil from harms1@pa.net Tue Aug 14 06:57:12 2001 f7EBvBZ21342 Subject: Re: Question for Hand Mill users who have swelled butts Bob, You're not missing anything. This is exactly what I have done., and itworks slick as can be. The only problem was finding a suitable piece ofshim stock. I decided upon a thickness of .042" and used a length of springsteel, as this seemed to have the most consistently true thicknesstolerances. (Be certain that the width of your shim is no greater than thatof the anvil bed, as the mill needs this clearance.) The only downside was that because the material is so tough, I had to havethe holes drilled at a local machine shop. All in all, no big deal, and thearrangement certainly is a LOT faster and easier to set up than screwingaround with those little washers. I can set up for a swelled butt inexactly the same amount of time it would take for a "straight" taper. One little tip, though. I located the last hole on my shim stock 1 1/2" from the end. This meant that the swell would either cover an area of3 1/2" or one of 8 1/2". Neither was acceptable to my eye, so tocompensate, I use just one of the .031 washers under the anvil at the holejust "downstream" from the end of the shim. This allows the anvil to fallmore gently at first. and then taper right down to the anvil bed over thenext 5". The resulting rod looks perfect to me. No doubt, you can set up the shim stock any way you like. I only mentionthe issue because you will want to think through how you want your taper tolook before drilling the holes in the stock. Good luck. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Question for Hand Mill users who have swelled butts Hi guys:(Did that get your attention? It's pertinent, really.)Here's a thought, but I need some perspective. Instead of using thewashers, why not take a long piece of shim stock, make holes for the anvilscrews, and use that under the anvil instead. It would be quick andpainless. I see Travers and others sell 3 foot long shim stock ground toclose tolerances. Someone tell me why that would not work.What am I missing?Thanks,Bob from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 14 07:15:49 2001 f7ECFmZ21750 Subject: Re: Question for Hand Mill users who have swelled butts Bill:HI, that's great news. I was thinking about this and the light bulb just went off in my head and said "This is the way to go."Would you happen to have a pic of the resulting swell you are able to achieve? I have done so few on the HM that I would like to see your perspective on what looks appropriate. Thanks, as usual, you were a big help.BobPS, I think this will be my fist milling machine project. At 07:55 AM 8/14/2001 -0400, WILLIAM HARMS wrote:Bob, You're not missing anything. This is exactly what I have done., and itworks slick as can be. The only problem was finding a suitable piece ofshim stock. I decided upon a thickness of .042" and used a length of springsteel, as this seemed to have the most consistently true thicknesstolerances. (Be certain that the width of your shim is no greater than thatof the anvil bed, as the mill needs this clearance.) from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Aug 14 07:25:34 2001 f7ECPYZ22027 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:25:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Nodeless whats the deal? FILETIME=[396BEB30:01C124BC] I use a chisel to hog off the major part of the work, then smooth down with a fine-set plane. Two minutes. bill At 07:47 PM 8/13/2001 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:I build nodeless rods and have tried using the disc sander. I found that it takes about the same time as a sharp plane does. To plane a scarf just set that plane to "HOG OFF MATERIAL" and have at it. About 8 passes does it, than a pass with it on "FINE". It takes about 3 minutes to do it and thats even a final with a pass with a file. I am sure sanding is just fine but it does not save time for me. If you really want to save time rig up a deal with a router and a laminate trim bit and have at it. Adam Vigil from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Aug 14 07:31:36 2001 f7ECVXZ22269 Subject: Re: Nodeless whats the deal? If you want to do some damage use a slick. Now THAT's a chisel :-) Tony At 08:25 AM 8/14/01 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:I use a chisel to hog off the major part of the work, then smooth down with a fine-set plane. Two minutes. bill At 07:47 PM 8/13/2001 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:I build nodeless rods and have tried using the disc sander. I found that it takes about the same time as a sharp plane does. To plane a scarf just set that plane to "HOG OFF MATERIAL" and have at it. About 8 passes does it, than a pass with it on "FINE". It takes about 3 minutes to do it and thats even a final with a pass with a file. I am sure sanding is just fine but it does not save time for me. If you really want to save time rig up a deal with a router and a laminate trim bit and have at it. Adam Vigil /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Aug 14 09:48:50 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f7EEmnZ00952 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Nodeless whats the deal? Just wanted to tell the list that this has been a wonderfully usefuldiscussion for me. I build nodeless, have used only power-sanded scarfs, andhave been very frustrated with scarf failures. I just ordered a good plane(sold mine cheap to a new rodmaker when I got a hand mill, what a dummy)andhope this solves my problems. When using the plane set to take off a lot of material fast, and thenwanting a few finer passes, any reason why the Lie-Neilsen scraper planewouldn't work for those last passes? I do have one of those, and it savesstopping to reset the regular plane each time. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nodeless whats the deal? If you want to do some damage use a slick. Now THAT's a chisel :-) Tony At 08:25 AM 8/14/01 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:I use a chisel to hog off the major part of the work, then smooth down with a fine-set plane. Two minutes. bill At 07:47 PM 8/13/2001 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:I build nodeless rods and have tried using the disc sander. I found that it takes about the same time as a sharp plane does. To plane a scarf just set that plane to "HOG OFF MATERIAL" and have at it. About 8 passes does it, than a pass with it on "FINE". It takes about 3 minutes to do it and thats even a final with a pass with a file. I am sure sanding is just fine but it does not save time for me. If you really want to save time rig up a deal with a router and a laminate trim bit and have at it. Adam Vigil /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Aug 14 09:56:04 2001 f7EEu2Z01527 Subject: RE: Nodeless whats the deal? Barry,no reason at all not to. Tony At 09:48 AM 8/14/01 -0500, Kling, Barry W. wrote: Just wanted to tell the list that this has been a wonderfully usefuldiscussion for me. I build nodeless, have used only power-sanded scarfs,andhave been very frustrated with scarf failures. I just ordered a good plane(sold mine cheap to a new rodmaker when I got a hand mill, what a dummy)andhope this solves my problems. When using the plane set to take off a lot of material fast, and thenwanting a few finer passes, any reason why the Lie-Neilsen scraper planewouldn't work for those last passes? I do have one of those, and it savesstopping to reset the regular plane each time. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:35 AM Cc: Adam Vigil; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Nodeless whats the deal? If you want to do some damage use a slick. Now THAT's a chisel :-) Tony At 08:25 AM 8/14/01 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote:I use a chisel to hog off the major part of the work, then smooth downwith a fine-set plane. Two minutes. bill At 07:47 PM 8/13/2001 -0700, Adam Vigil wrote:I build nodeless rods and have tried using the disc sander. I found that it takes about the same time as a sharp plane does. To plane a scarfjust set that plane to "HOG OFF MATERIAL" and have at it. About 8 passesdoes it, than a pass with it on "FINE". It takes about 3 minutes to do it and thats even a final with a pass with a file. I am sure sanding is just fine but it does not save time for me. If you really want to save time rig up a deal with a router and a laminate trim bit and have at it. Adam Vigil /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Aug 14 10:12:41 2001 f7EFCeZ03390 Subject: Plane recommendation. What are the preferences on planes? Good source for getting one? I am building my own steel forms and am just about done, need to startgathering the rest of the tools needed to start building rods. Thanks for your input, Peter from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Aug 14 10:25:34 2001 f7EFPXZ04092 KAA18855 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 Subject: RE: Nodeless whats the deal? Another nodeless method: I cut the initial scarf on a band saw with a fine toothed blade (necessary).I've got a jig that runs in the mitre slot. Takes about 5 seconds a scarf, including picking up the piece, cutting, putting it back in thepile, and flicking away the little wedge. I do a whole rods worth at a session. Then to the scarfing block for a couple passes with a plane set fine and its ready to glue.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Aug 14 10:33:51 2001 f7EFXoZ04643 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:26:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Plane recommendation. Hi Peter, There are several good choices, some better than others. What youwant is a normal-to-high angle block plane with an adjustable throat. Allthose which are available today are modeled after the Stanley 9.5. Goodsuggestions include the modern Stanley G12-020, the Record model 9.5, theLie-Nielsen 9.5, or the Lea Valley adjustable throat block plane. TheStanley G12-020 is available from Lowe's Home Centers for about $30. Theother run from $50 to $160 from various sources.I personally use a battery of both modern and original Stanley's alongwith a Lie-Nielsen scraping plane. Rodmakers sometimes advise the older Stanley model 60.5, but it's lowangle of attack has some disadvantages. Therefore most rodmakers do notthink it is as suitable as the 9.5's. At least as important as getting the right plane is learning to hone akeen edge on the irons of whichevever plane you choose. The archives ofthis list are filled with suggestions on plane irons and sharpeningsystems. Have fun,Harry Boyd Peter Van Schaack wrote: What are the preferences on planes? Good source for getting one? --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from jerryy@webtv.net Tue Aug 14 14:57:09 2001 f7EJv8Z25157 (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA13023; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:57:08 - ETAuAhUAr85A3zR3vTCO8QIKc4ThQUgZ/aYCFQCDjbS549NtG8R+G+sYbUbuUSjm9A== Subject: Hollow Quads Has anyone recalculated a hollow quad to Bob Milwards specs? I would beinterested in discussing with you. Thanks, Jerry Young from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Aug 14 16:49:55 2001 f7ELnsZ29700 +0100 Subject: Hardy Jock Scot Taper It's almost here, I can't believe it...........After a two year search I have found a Japanese rod builder who has justbought one, received it, can use a micrometer and has promised to sendme it......Xmas comes early this year gentlemen.What this space for the posting.........Paul Now who said ;'don't count your chickens before they have hatched '? from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Aug 14 18:40:31 2001 f7ENeUZ04456 ;Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:40:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Nodeless whats the deal? So do I Bill and the chisel works great and hogs off a lot of material.Jack from jojo@ipa.net Tue Aug 14 19:04:08 2001 f7F047Z05023 Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed It may be that the excessive speed of the sanding disc may have glazed thecane, in which case the glue would not adhere. M-D What are they using to glue their scarf's? What grit paper? I had several failures on the scarf's using a disc sander. Joe From: "David Kashuba" Rodmakers- I know of two rodmakers who use a sanding disc exclusively for theirnodeless-they have been for years. Fished hard,no problems, many sales. -David Kashuba. Tony Young wrote: That's right. When gluing you need as thin a glue line as possible andthatmeans planed and preferably freshly planed surfaces. If you sand it'soktoget it to the rough stage but it should planed before scarfing. Tony At 06:23 AM 8/13/01 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:when you sand you leave nothing but a bunch of shredded fibers. Sandpaperis rocks glued to paper and if you want a good glue joint you have tocleave the fibers with a plane. When you glue sanded joints its likegluingtwo bundles of broom fibers together, the glue surface is only as bigasthe width of each fiber and they are only as strong as their thicknesswhere they attach to the culm. from djk762@earthlink.net Tue Aug 14 21:50:44 2001 f7F2ohZ08464 TAA07599 Subject: scarfing help needed Rodmakers- The fellas I know use 80 grit paper and titebond II. Splices take about15 seconds to "cut".A jig is screwed to the sanding table and the cane moved into the discagainst the jig until cut through. 0.99 pony clamps from harbor freightare used to clamp. Slick. I will inquire about speed.This is one fast option that works well for these two rodmakers...Justas has been discussed before in this forum some techniques work for somerodmakers that do not work for others.I use a plane, keep my nodes, and lately mount my ferrulescrooked...damn. David Kashuba. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Aug 14 23:03:21 2001 f7F43KZ10192 (16785) Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Joe, I use a file to finish off the scarf surfaces for repairing broken rod tips. This is the procedure Garrison used. A file should work for nodeless scarfs too, IMHO. Don Burns Joe, I use a file to finish off the scarf surfaces for repairing broken rodtips. This is the procedure Garrison used. A file should work for nodelessscarfs too, IMHO. Don Burns from le_moucheux@hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 09:23:52 2001 f7FENpZ26779 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:23:44 -0700 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:23:44 GMT Subject: W.M. Jardine FILETIME=[E4128BA0:01C12595] Hi folks, Any one know of a Canadian rod maker by the name of W.M Jardine?A customer brought in this rod last night for repairs and have never heard of this craftsman. Thanks for your help, it given me in building cane rods. I am a lurker, but I read all messages and have learnt a lot from you guys. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from le_moucheux@hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 09:24:06 2001 f7FEO4Z26808 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:24:01 -0700 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:24:01 GMT Subject: W.M. Jardine FILETIME=[EDC6D430:01C12595] Hi folks, Any one know of a Canadian rod maker by the name of W.M Jardine?A customer brought in this rod last night for repairs and have never heard of this craftsman. Thanks for your help, it given me in building cane rods. I am a lurker, but I read all messages and have learnt a lot from you guys. Mike _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from mwflytyer@hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 14:12:33 2001 f7FJCWZ13509 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:12:21 -0700 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:12:21 GMT Subject: removing a reelseat end-cap FILETIME=[3581AF70:01C125BE] rodmakers: I've got a boogered-up reelseat ring that needs attention (refinish or replacement). To get it off, I need to take off the end-cap which is epoxyed on. How can I remove the nickel-silver endcap without ruining it? Will a flame ruin the nickel-silver? Boiling? a solvent that won't ruin the spacer? Am I hosed? help appreciated,steve schweitzer _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from bob@downandacross.com Wed Aug 15 14:24:01 2001 f7FJO0Z15090 Subject: Re: removing a reelseat end-cap Hi Steve:Slow, low heat from a heat gun will remove it just fine. I did one the other day. Heat gun on low, took very little time. It was 5 minute epoxy, I amunsure if better epoxies would be more difficult.Best regards,Bob At 01:12 PM 8/15/2001 -0600, you wrote:rodmakers: I've got a boogered-up reelseat ring that needs attention (refinish or replacement). To get it off, I need to take off the end-cap which is epoxyed on. How can I remove the nickel-silver endcap without ruining it?Will a flame ruin the nickel-silver? Boiling? a solvent that won't ruin the spacer? Am I hosed? help appreciated,steve schweitzer _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from oandc@email.msn.com Wed Aug 15 14:37:33 2001 f7FJbWZ16103 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:37:05 -0700 Subject: Binder pulleys FILETIME=[AA63D630:01C125C1] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Gentlemen,I will be shortly building a Millward binder. I have everything figured =out (blind optimism) with the exception of the pulleys. I would like to =use a material that epoxy does not stick to well. I would welcome any =input. Thanks again.Wayne Kifer ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release Date: 8/7/01 Gentlemen,I will be shortly building a Millward = have everything figured out (blind optimism) with the exception of the = I would like to use a material that epoxy does not stick to well. I = welcome any input. Thanks again.Wayne Kifer ---Outgoing mail is certified = Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: = Virus Database: 140 - Release Date:8/7/01 from pmgoodwin@earthlink.net Wed Aug 15 15:27:50 2001 f7FKRnZ18484 Subject: Re: Binder pulleys This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I used replacement sliding glass door rollers. They cost about $5.00 at =the local home center. Paul Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 3:38 PMSubject: Binder pulleys Gentlemen,I will be shortly building a Millward binder. I have everything =figured out (blind optimism) with the exception of the pulleys. I would =like to use a material that epoxy does not stick to well. I would =welcome any input. Thanks again.Wayne Kifer ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release Date: 8/7/01 I used replacement sliding glass door = cost about $5.00 at the local home center. Paul ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, August 15, = PMSubject: Binder pulleys Gentlemen,I will be shortly building a Millward = have everything figured out (blind optimism) with the exception of the = pulleys. I would like to use a material that epoxy does not stick to = would welcome any input. Thanks again.Wayne Kifer ---Outgoing mail is certified= Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: = 8/7/01 from oandc@email.msn.com Wed Aug 15 16:38:14 2001 f7FLcDZ21789 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:37:40 -0700 Subject: Pulleys FILETIME=[82DCC1B0:01C125D2] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Guys,I was having another senior moment. I was talking Milward and thinking =Garrison. The Milward, of course, won't have that type of glue problem. =Which was one of my reasons for selecting that style in the first place. =Thanks for your patience.Wayne ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.268 / Virus Database: 140 - Release Date: 8/7/01 Guys,I was having another senior moment. I = in the first place. Thanks for your patience.Wayne ---Outgoing mail is certified = Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: = Virus Database: 140 - Release Date:8/7/01 from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Aug 15 16:59:52 2001 f7FLxpZ22635 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:56:32 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: W.M. Jardine Mike,no, I'm in Nova Scotia, Canada and as far as I know I'm the only buildereast of Quebec. Perhaps one of the guys from Ontario ~> west might knowof this guy?? How old is the rod?? Love to hear where this guy is from as there areso fewof us here in Canada especially here in the Maritimes ;^( Shawn Michel Lajoie wrote: Hi folks, Any one know of a Canadian rod maker by the name of W.M Jardine?A customer brought in this rod last night for repairs and have never heardof this craftsman. Thanks for your help, it given me in building cane rods. I am a lurker, but I read all messagesand have learnt a lot from you guys. Mike _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Aug 15 17:00:59 2001 f7FM0wZ22819 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:57:55 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: W.M. Jardine BTW,I just assumed you were talking about a bamboo rod??? Michel Lajoie wrote: Hi folks, Any one know of a Canadian rod maker by the name of W.M Jardine?A customer brought in this rod last night for repairs and have never heardof this craftsman. Thanks for your help, it given me in building cane rods. I am a lurker, but I read all messagesand have learnt a lot from you guys. Mike _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from CALucker@aol.com Wed Aug 15 17:25:25 2001 f7FMPOZ23909 Subject: Re: W.M. Jardine I believe I have a copy of some Jardine promotional material in my stacks and stacks of rod builder catalogs. Will check tonight.Chris I believe I have a copy ofsome Jardine promotional material in my stacks and Chris from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Aug 15 19:41:49 2001 f7G0fmZ26854 Subject: Re: turning a grip This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Wrap wax paper around the steel rod and the glue will not stick. I use =threaded rod and clamp with fender washers on each end. Dennis Bertram-----Original Message-----From: Adam Vigil Date: Sunday, August 12, 2001 1:11 AMSubject: turning a grip This is how I turn a grip and may be helpful to some.I glue up the rings but instead of mounting it on the blank I do it =on a steel rod. Before the glue is totally hard I tap out the rod and =let the rings dry. Once dry I reinsert the rod snugly and mount it in my =drill press, I wish I had a lathe. I turn the cork down taking =measurements as I go. This way I do not have to spin my blank in a lathe. And if I dont =like the handle I can always do another and use the first one on a =differant rod. Adam Vigil Wrap wax paper around the steelrod = end. Dennis Bertram -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sunday, August 12, 2001 1:11 AMSubject: turning gripThis is how I turn a grip and may = some.I glue up the rings but instead of = on the blank I do it on a steel rod. Before the glue is totally hard = out the rod and let the rings dry. Once dry I reinsert the rod = mount it in my drill press, I wish I had a lathe. I turn the cork = taking measurements as I go. When done I mount it on the blank = This way I do not have to spin my = lathe. And if I dont like the handle I can always do another and use = first one on a differant rod. Adam =Vigil from le_moucheux@hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 19:45:14 2001 f7G0jDZ27182 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:45:09 -0700 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:45:09 GMT Subject: Re: W.M. Jardine FILETIME=[B3917B10:01C125EC] Yes it is a cane rod. Can't put a date on it but I figure it's 1950's From: Shawn Pineo CC: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: W.M. JardineDate: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:04:26 -0400 BTW,I just assumed you were talking about a bamboo rod??? Michel Lajoie wrote: Hi folks, Any one know of a Canadian rod maker by the name of W.M Jardine?A customer brought in this rod last night for repairs and have never heardof this craftsman. Thanks for your help, helpit given me in building cane rods. I am a lurker, but I read all messagesand have learnt a lot from you guys. Mike _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from le_moucheux@hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 19:46:40 2001 f7G0kdZ27487 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:46:36 -0700 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:46:35 GMT Subject: Re: W.M. Jardine FILETIME=[E7004A30:01C125EC] That would be fantastic... thanks From: CALucker@aol.com Subject: Re: W.M. JardineDate: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:25:20 EDT I believe I have a copy of some Jardine promotional material in my stacks andstacks of rod builder catalogs. Will check tonight.Chris _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from fquinchat@locl.net Wed Aug 15 19:55:45 2001 f7G0tiZ28105 Subject: Re: Milling cutters Dave, How about a little millling lesson. Why 2 flutes for alum and 4 flutes forsteel? Dennis Bertram-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Milling cutters In a message dated 08/13/2001 8:47:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: Finally, dragged my milling machine into the shop and am wondering wheretostart when it comes to buying some useful cutters for it. Anyrecommendations? Do I just need a good end mill set? I want to be able tomake some simple jigs and things like new vice jaws, a bed for a Medvedstyle beveller, etc...Thanks in advance.Bob >> Hi Bob,Yes, a good set of end millsshoulddo it.I use two flute cutters on aluminum and four flute cutters onsteel. Probably a set from around 1/8in. to 3/4in. should be good.You do have collets for your mill, I assume. That's the only wayto do it. Don't use your drill chuck.. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Aug 15 20:52:06 2001 f7G1q5Z00736 Subject: Re: Milling cutters rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 08/15/2001 8:55:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fquinchat@locl.net writes: Hi Dennis,The main problem with the four flute, especiallyif you are removing a lot of metal, the smaller blades tend to clogup, causing the cutter to get hot and will not give a good cleancut. Whereas the two flute cutter doesn't get clogged as bad asthe four flute and will give a better cut.Now, if you are taking very fine cuts, say a coupleof thou. at a time, the four flute will work good. But if you aretaking off large cuts, say .020 to .030 at a time, the cutter willclog up and basically stop cutting. That is the main reason Ilike the two flute for alum. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from jojo@ipa.net Wed Aug 15 20:57:02 2001 f7G1v1Z01090 Subject: Re: Binder pulleys This is a multi-part message in MIME format. UHMW -- Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. I haven't found that =epoxy sticking to my steel pulleys has been a problem. M-D Gentlemen,I will be shortly building a Millward binder. I have everything =figured out (blind optimism) with the exception of the pulleys. I would =like to use a material that epoxy does not stick to well. I would =welcome any input. Thanks again.Wayne Kifer UHMW -- Ultra-High = Polyethylene. I haven't found that epoxy sticking to my steel pulleys = problem. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Gentlemen,I will be shortly building a Millward = have everything figured out (blind optimism) with the exception of the = pulleys. I would like to use a material that epoxy does not stick to = would welcome any input. Thanks again.Wayne Kifer from jojo@ipa.net Wed Aug 15 20:58:28 2001 f7G1wRZ01358 Subject: Re: removing a reelseat end-cap Done it the same way with Rod Bond. Took a little more exposure but it cameaway just fine. M-D Hi Steve:Slow, low heat from a heat gun will remove it just fine. I did one theother day. Heat gun on low, took very little time. It was 5 minute epoxy,Iam unsure if better epoxies would be more difficult.Best regards,Bob At 01:12 PM 8/15/2001 -0600, you wrote:rodmakers: I've got a boogered-up reelseat ring that needs attention (refinish orreplacement). To get it off, I need to take off the end-cap which isepoxyed on. How can I remove the nickel-silver endcap without ruiningit?Will a flame ruin the nickel-silver? Boiling? a solvent that won't ruinthe spacer? Am I hosed? help appreciated,steve schweitzer from mwflytyer@hotmail.com Wed Aug 15 21:00:00 2001 f7G1xxZ01630 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:59:48 -0700 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:59:47 GMT Subject: Removing reelseat endcap...thx FILETIME=[20E3E2C0:01C125F7] thanks to all who gave advice on removing the endcap of a reelseat. Boiling water, carefully used, removed the endcap and didn't ruin the spacer. All is well in rod repair land. :) Mr. Venneri: no it wasn't one of your reelseats I just applied...if it was, I would be much more nervous than I am! cheers,Steve SchweitzerThe Global Fly Fisherhttp://globalflyfisher.com From: Bill Schudlich Subject: Catch ya...Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:34:56 -0600 later. Off to Portland for the weekend to try and save some fishies. *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*Bill SchudlichSanta Fe, NMbill_s@outsidemag.com Outside - America's Active Lifestyle Magazinehttp://www.outsidemag.com/*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 07:19:52 2001 f7GCJpZ14269 2001 05:19:53 PDT Subject: Full metal reelseat I have a full metal reelseat on a rod I'm redoing anddon't want to replace it. Need tips for cleaning it upand has anyone ever blued a full metal seat? This is arod strictly for personal use and doesn't have anycollector value. Just trying to dress it up with theminimum monetary investment. Thinking about bluingseat because the ferrules I put on it would benefit from being blued. Comments welcome. Thanks. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from bhoy551@earthlink.net Thu Aug 16 07:29:20 2001 f7GCTJZ14657 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:29:16 -0400 Subject: Re: turning a grip FILETIME=[105FCBF0:01C1264F] Rubbing parrafin wax on the metal rod works, too. Bill Hoy At 08:00 PM 8/15/2001 -0500, Dennis Bertram wrote:Wrap wax paper around the steel rod and the glue will not stick. I use threaded rod and clamp with fender washers on each end. Dennis Bertram-----Original Message-----From: Adam Vigil atlasc1@earthlink.net> rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu>Date: Sunday, August 12, 2001 1:11 AMSubject: turning a grip This is how I turn a grip and may be helpful to some.I glue up the rings but instead of mounting it on the blank I do it on a steel rod. Before the glue is totally hard I tap out the rod and let the rings dry. Once dry I reinsert the rod snugly and mount it in my drill press, I wish I had a lathe. I turn the cork down taking measurements as Igo. When done I mount it on the blank let it dry. This way I do not have to spin my blank in a lathe. And if I dont like the handle I can always do another and use the first one on a differantrod. Adam Vigil from rextutor@about.com Thu Aug 16 09:33:06 2001 f7GEX5Z19465 (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: Full metal reelseat I use silver cleaner then I buff with a dremel tool , witout removing surface it makes them look a whole lot better. If they are Nickel SIlver , blueing them can make them look alot better if they have dark spots. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Aug 16 10:18:42 2001 f7GFIfZ22100 Subject: Power Plane TO ALL.Have any of the hand planers out there used a Power plane.The power plane that Micro-Mark has could be set up with a guide that would ride down the top of the planing forms.Best Hal Bacon from bob@downandacross.com Thu Aug 16 11:28:41 2001 f7GGSeZ28952 Aug 2001 12:29:11 -0400 Subject: Lapping Female Ferrules Dear List:I would appreciate any help on these four questions. (Help me before I waste more money on building better ferrules). I am sorry if I have asked before, but I am ready to get some tools, and I cannot find the info that several of you shared due to a pc crash. 1. Is it necessary to lap ferrules (female hole) to get a good fit.2. If you use a blind hole style lap (recommended to me by GMA), do you need to use a compound of some type on them?3. Can you make laps?4. If you bore instead of ream, what style could you use that would fulfill the minimum hole requirements. If you bore, is the finish that much better that lapping would be not needed?Thanks in advance,Bob from Canerods@aol.com Thu Aug 16 11:41:31 2001 f7GGfUZ00156 Peter, I've been trying to reach you to let you know that your rods arrived, seems that you and Tony Young were both off line for the last 36 hours or more. Please email me today if you see this post. Don BurnsCanerods@aol.com or dgburns@bigplanet.com Peter, I've been trying to reach you to let you know that your rods arrived,seems that you and Tony Young were both off line for the last 36 hours ormore. Please email me today if you see this post. Don BurnsCanerods@aol.com or dgburns@bigplanet.com from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Aug 16 13:20:02 2001 f7GIK2Z04032 Subject: Re: Power Plane I use a Bosch electric plane to rough plane the split, straightened andflattened strips. I do this by hand as you would use a hand plane. Thisfirst planing is done in a pine form which has several vee grooves ofdifferent depths routered into it. The second planing is done with a #4 1/2Bailley plane in a metal planing form set about .015" to .020" oversize.After heat-treating I finish plane the remaining few thousands with a LeeValley block plane which has a very sharp A20 blade. from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Aug 16 13:42:07 2001 f7GIg6Z05049 Subject: Re: Lapping Female Ferrules Bob,I do not find that lapping is necessary. I use very sharp reamers in ahole that is somewhat undersized. T wo reamers each taking off about 5thou toget to the final dimension gives a very smooth hole. I used to try lapping,but found that it tended to bell mouth the female ferrule. Probably my fault,but that was why I gave it up. You do need compound when using a lap. Youcanmake your own.Ed Hartzell Bob Maulucci wrote: Dear List:I would appreciate any help on these four questions. (Help me before Iwaste more money on building better ferrules). I am sorry if I have askedbefore, but I am ready to get some tools, and I cannot find the info thatseveral of you shared due to a pc crash. 1. Is it necessary to lap ferrules (female hole) to get a good fit.2. If you use a blind hole style lap (recommended to me by GMA), do youneed to use a compound of some type on them?3. Can you make laps?4. If you bore instead of ream, what style could you use that would fulfillthe minimum hole requirements. If you bore, is the finish that much betterthat lapping would be not needed?Thanks in advance,Bob from caneman@clnk.com Thu Aug 16 14:21:31 2001 f7GJLUZ07207 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKING CLASSES/LESSONS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Oscar,Just got back from Montana so this response may be a bit late, but =if you are going to be in the states in 2002, there will be a rodmaking =class from which you will leave with a glued up blank grip and reel seat =at the Bamboo Symposium at the 2002 FFF Conclave. If you would like =more info, contact Ralph Moon at rmoon@ida.net . He has all the =details... hurry if you're interested, as my understanding is we will =limit it to 6 students and I think a couple have already signed up. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:22 AMSubject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKING CLASSES/LESSONS Dear Rodmakers friends, I am overwhelmed by the response and dedication that you all have =shown. Thank you ever so much. I will take advantage of the advise =receive from everyone of you, and I am sure I will make the right =decision when the time comes. Needless to say that I am at your disposal for anything you may need = from down South. Thanks and best regards, Oscar "Tim Wilhelm" 08/03/01 07:26PM >>> Oscar, Among the other names you have received, Jeff Wagner offers classes =and he is near Cleveland Ohio. You can also find a link to his website =on the rodmakers website. Tim Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3:20 PMSubject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKING CLASSES/LESSONS Hi Harry, Thank you for your prompt reply. Although I am a US citizen I am located in Argentina under =assignment by the corporation I work for. I am a hobbyist rod builder =and would like to develop further my very basic skills, so I thought I =might spend some quality time taking rod building lessons next spring or =summer. Obviously it would have to be in the States in 2002. Regards, Oscar Tell us where you are. Perhaps then we can recommend someone not too = I am very interested in finding out regarding to rodmakers that =offer hands on classes/lessons on bamboo rod building/making. Could you = Oscar, from = this response may be a bit late, but if you are going to be in the = 2002, there will be a rodmaking class from which you will leave with a = blank grip and reel seat at the Bamboo Symposium at the 2002 FFF = hurry if you're interested, as my understanding is we will limit it to 6 = students and I think a couple have already signed up. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Oscar =Segal Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: BAMBOO ROD = CLASSES/LESSONS Dear Rodmakers friends, I am overwhelmed by the response and dedication that you all have = Thank you ever so much. I will take advantage of the advise receive = everyone of you, and I am sure I will make the right decision when the = comes. Needless to say that I am at your disposal for anything you may = down South. Thanks and best regards, Oscar, Among the other names you have = link to his website on the rodmakers website. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Oscar = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001= PMSubject: Re: BAMBOO ROD = CLASSES/LESSONS Hi Harry, Thank you for your prompt reply. Although I am a US citizen I am located in Argentina under = like to develop further my very basic skills, so I thought I might = some quality time taking rod building lessons next spring or summer. = Obviously it would have to be in the States in 2002. Regards, Perhaps then we can recommend someone not too far from your that offer hands on classes/lessons on bamboo rod building/making. = offer me advise on this matter? Your ehlp will be greatly = "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Harry = -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ --= from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 14:42:34 2001 f7GJgXZ08272 2001 12:42:35 PDT Subject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKING CLASSES/LESSONS twilhelm@occasionalrod.com bob, tell us about your fishing trip. timothy --- Bob Nunley wrote:Oscar,Just got back from Montana so this response maybe a bit late, but if you are going to be in thestates in 2002, there will be a rodmaking class fromwhich you will leave with a glued up blank grip andreel seat at the Bamboo Symposium at the 2002 FFFConclave. If you would like more info, contactRalph Moon at rmoon@ida.net . He has all thedetails... hurry if you're interested, as myunderstanding is we will limit it to 6 students andI think a couple have already signed up. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Segal twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:22 AMSubject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKINGCLASSES/LESSONS Dear Rodmakers friends, I am overwhelmed by the response and dedicationthat you all have shown. Thank you ever so much. Iwill take advantage of the advise receive fromeveryone of you, and I am sure I will make the rightdecision when the time comes. Needless to say that I am at your disposal foranything you may need from down South. Thanks andbest regards, Oscar "Tim Wilhelm" 08/03/01 07:26PM >>> Oscar, Among the other names you have received, JeffWagner offers classes and he is near Cleveland Ohio.You can also find a link to his website on therodmakers website. Tim----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Segal Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3:20 PMSubject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKINGCLASSES/LESSONS Hi Harry, Thank you for your prompt reply. Although I am a US citizen I am located inArgentina under assignment by the corporation I workfor. I am a hobbyist rod builder and would like todevelop further my very basic skills, so I thought Imight spend some quality time taking rod buildinglessons next spring or summer. Obviously it wouldhave to be in the States in 2002. Regards, Oscar Harry Boyd 08/03/0103:37PM >>> Hi Oscar, Tell us where you are. Perhaps then we canrecommend someone not too far from your locale. Harry Boyd Oscar Segal wrote: Dear Rodmakers, I am very interested in finding out regardingto rodmakers that offer hands on classes/lessons onbamboo rod building/making. Could you offer meadvise on this matter? Your ehlp will be greatlyappreciated. Sincerely, Oscar A. Segal -- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church - ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 16 15:37:13 2001 f7GKbCZ11577 Subject: Lie-Nielsen Originating-IP: 144.189.248.170 Those folks at Lie-Nielsen are really nice. I complain enough when thingsdon't go right so it's only right to provide a little praise when they do. Here'sthe story. I have been using cabinet scrapers to finish my strips. A real pain. Finish astrip, sharpen the scrapers, finish another strip, sharpen the scrapers. Itried planing right down to the form but as the iron cuts, it can lift the stripproducing wavy rather than flat cutting contributing to visible glue lines. Ihad been trying to make a scraper from a cheap plane but didn't get it rightuntil this last rod. I managed to finish about half of the strips before it gotdull but the performance was enough to convince me that I really needed a LN212! So, I went to the Lie-Nielsen web page and looked around. I knew I wanted a"rodmaker's" groove milled in so I emailed LN and asked them if they did thison the scrapers. They said yes, so I ordered one with the rodmaker'sgroove. Now here is where things started to go awry. The web page gavethe depth of the groove as .005". Unbeknown to me, the groove had beenchanged to .003" at the request of several rodmakers. I discovered thedifference when the scraper was delivered. I tried the scraper with the .003" groove but it worked as I was afraid itwould. The .003" groove is right for the planes but a mite to shallow for thescraper. When set to take off just the right amount, the iron was just abouteven with the bottom of the scraper. It really needed the .005" groove. So Iemailed them and asked if they would deepen the groove to .005". "Sure,they said. Send it along." So I boxed it up and sent it off to them. Last week it came back. When I opened the box, I was shocked. The groovewas there but what was the depth. It measured .005" at the rear of thescraper, .003" just behind the blade and just under .001" at the front of thescraper. I was flabbergasted! I put it back into the box and wrote them anemail and I must admit, I let some of my irritation creep into the email. Bythis time I was feeling like J. Edsel Murphy. The next day I received a telephone call from the factory. I received anapology and assurance that the situation would be corrected. Wow! I don'tever remember receiving this kind of treatment. I felt confident the scraperwould be delivered soon with the .005" groove. It was really a boost to toreceive that kind of customer service. Yesterday, I received the scraper, and I was shocked again! Yes, the boxcontained the LN 212 with the .005" groove but also in the box was acomplementary copy of Planecraft: Hand Planing By Modern Methods by C.W.Hampton and A.E. Clifford and a replacement blade for the LN 212. A $28.95gift for my inconvenience. I can not remember ever having been treated thiswell as a customer. All I can say is: Thank you Lie-Nielsen! You have somereally great products, you really treat your customers nice and you arereally nice folks. Thank you. Best regards,Onis CogburnK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from caneman@clnk.com Thu Aug 16 16:41:23 2001 f7GLfNZ14872 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:07:09 -0500 Subject: Livingston and Home again... Well,Finally got through all 801 emails that were waiting when I got back from Livingston, so it's time to post a couple of things...FIRST... Ralph, it was great being in the booth with you again thisyear and I hope that is something that happens for many years to come...Those of you who have never had the honor of meeting Ralph Moon, you havemissed something special. Ralph is not only a great gentleman and finerodmaker, but is one of the most prolific historians of both flyfishing androdmaking that I've ever met, and I'm very proud to call him my friend....oh, and Ralph, sorry we didn't answer the voice mail message you and Patleft, but Billie didn't check her voice mail until sometime yesterday ineastern Colorado... Was a little late to drop by at that point! *S*Dennis Conrad... It was great seeing you again and even though whathappened to your truck was terrible, it was nice to know that I am NOT theonly one who has misadventures when I'm on the road... I got your personalemail and no need for any thanks... that's just what friends do when needed.Dennis Higham... Did we blow up the park after the bar b que or WHAT???LOL Guys, we drug out the old wooden fishin' poles and made a few convertsafter the FFF BBQ on Saturday night. Those of you that have met him, knowthat Dennis makes a damn fine stick and some of the finest casters in theworld were out there laying line out of his rods on the park grass.Actually, we didn't start this to convert people from the evil composite tothe sacred cane. It started because a friend of mine, Hans Weilenmann hadbeen so hooked up all week tying flies at the Conclave that he didn't get achance to play with any of the cane rods and asked me to bring a few to thepark... things just kinda snowballed from there. I think everyone who had acane rod with them brought it out... you should have seen the look on thehardcore composite peoples faces when Mel Kreiger was false casting 55 or60feet of line with a loop you couldn't squeeze a cat through... from a 5'6" 4wt rod... It sure did quieten those whispers in the crowd about bamboobeing slow.Jim Bureau... uh... were you following me across the country? Went in afly shop in Buena Vista yesterday morning, wearing my FFF T-Shirt and theguy says... "There was a guy in here yesterday from Michigan that had beenup to Livingston..." I interrupted him... "Jim Bureau???" "Yep, that's theone"... we looked for you in town but couldn't find where you were stayingso we wandered on up to the South Platte and enjoyed an afternoon with thetrouties.Everyone else, Lowell Davis and Scott (sorry, but I'm sure now you dounderstand why I opted for Billie as a room mate over you at the SRG), JerryMadigan (one of these days we really will get on the same water at the sametime), John Long (do you have blueprints for that bed in the Caravan?), itwas great to see all of you and I hope it won't be long before our pathscross again. Some of you, I know, will be at the Southern RodmakersGathering, which I am very much looking forward to.As for the trip itself, Timothy T asked for summary of the fishing tripand I'll do that later (got to catch up on sleep right now), but as always,fishing was great... Mill Creek for Cuts, the Galatin, Spanish Creek for theBrookies.... oh and I caught my first Montana Bonefish (whitefish) lastweek. Those little buggers put up quite a fight for their size! After I'mrested, I'll tell you about Trout Creek and the hailstorm (still have"nature's knuckle bumps" on top of my head. *S*) and the "trouts eye view"of habitat on the Big Thompson. Oh, and if you ever go to fish RockyMountain NP... check the White House Website to make sure the Prez isn'tvisiting. You may come back to your car with Police tape all over it andfind out its "on the route" and has been check by the Secret Service forExplosive Materials... glad they didn't see my 12 ga. bear repellent layingin the floorboard! Off to rest for awhile... Bob from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Aug 16 16:58:18 2001 f7GLwHZ15742 scanner-0.96 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4151. . Clean. Processed in 0.313538secs); 16 Aug 2001 21:57:30 -0000 0000 Subject: Re: Full metal reelseat I use Met-All metal polish. I like it as it contains no abraisives and worksgreat. I would not blue an all NS seat because there are to many frictionpoints that will wear away the bluing very fast. Marty Bill Walters wrote: I have a full metal reelseat on a rod I'm redoing anddon't want to replace it. Need tips for cleaning it upand has anyone ever blued a full metal seat? This is arod strictly for personal use and doesn't have anycollector value. Just trying to dress it up with theminimum monetary investment. Thinking about bluingseat because the ferrules I put on it would benefit from being blued. Comments welcome. Thanks. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messengerhttp://phonecard.yahoo.com/ from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 16 18:48:34 2001 f7GNmXZ18357 ;Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:48:30 +0000 Subject: Re: Power Plane Hal:Used it for cutting splices for nodeless rods but it scares the hell out ofme and I quit using it. Instead I now use a sharp chisel to start the spliceand finish with my hand plane. If you miss with the power plane I find itwill take one hell of a gouge out of a metal splicing block and also breaksthe blades. A little too dangerous for me. Maybe if you set up some kind offool- proof jig for your planing form it could be used but again my Makita at15,000 rpm is a little much for bamboo on a steel form..Good luck. Jack from BambooRods@aol.com Thu Aug 16 20:55:45 2001 f7H1tiZ21158 Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen I hope that you have copied this email to the folks at LN. Afterall, great words can only be appreciated if they are heard. Doug Hall from stoltz10@home.com Fri Aug 17 08:55:14 2001 f7HDtEZ05351 femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: test This is a multi-part message in MIME format. from anglport@con2.com Fri Aug 17 08:55:56 2001 f7HDttZ05511 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Power Plane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Len Blauvelt was using a power plane at the Catskills Gathering a few =years ago. He was using something like teflon skid/spacers ( maybe 1/32" =thick?) glued to the bottom on the plane "outboard" of the cutter as I =recall. As long as they were attached, the plane couldn't contact the =forms. Len Blauvelt was using a power plane at= skid/spacers ( maybe 1/32" thick?) glued to the bottom on the plane = couldn't contact the forms. from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Fri Aug 17 09:17:21 2001 f7HEHKZ08294 Subject: test Please disregard... just arrived home and we're checking the systems! Kat and David from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 17 12:32:40 2001 f7HHWdZ22334 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:58:26 -0500 Subject: Conclave pictures posted This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I just threw up a page with pictures from the 2001 FFF Conclave if =anyone is interested in seeing them. View at =http://members.clnk.com/caneman/fff2001/01.jpg I'll have more pictures later, but haven't used all of that last roll of =film yet. Later,Bob I just threw up a page with pictures from the 2001 FFF Conclave if = nk.com/caneman/fff2001/01.jpg I'll have more pictures later, but haven't used all of that last = film yet. Later,Bob from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 17 12:36:17 2001 f7HHaGZ22649 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:02:04 -0500 Subject: the REAL url for the Conclave pictures This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Sorry about that... try http://members.clnk.com/caneman/fff2001/01.htm Later,BobR.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Sorry about that... try http://members.cl=nk.com/caneman/fff2001/01.htm Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from caneman@clnk.com Fri Aug 17 12:40:14 2001 f7HHeEZ22985 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:06:02 -0500 Subject: FFF Conclave pics, one last time Got several bounces on that because I forgot to change the message fromHTMLtext to PLAIN text, so for those that have html blocked, here is the URL forpictures from the 2001 FFF International Conclave in Livingston, Montana http://members.clnk.com/caneman/fff2001/01.htm Bob from OSEGAL@glcc.com Fri Aug 17 14:12:59 2001 f7HJCwZ28307 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:14:15 -0400 Subject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKING CLASSES/LESSONS Bob, Never is too late. Thank you!! I will contact Ralph immediately Oscar "Bob Nunley" 08/16/01 04:19PM >>> Oscar,Just got back from Montana so this response may be a bit late, but if =you are going to be in the states in 2002, there will be a rodmaking class = from which you will leave with a glued up blank grip and reel seat at the =Bamboo Symposium at the 2002 FFF Conclave. If you would like more info, =contact Ralph Moon at rmoon@ida.net . He has all the details... hurry if =you're interested, as my understanding is we will limit it to 6 students =and I think a couple have already signed up. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Subject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKING CLASSES/LESSONS Dear Rodmakers friends, I am overwhelmed by the response and dedication that you all have shown. =Thank you ever so much. I will take advantage of the advise receive from =everyone of you, and I am sure I will make the right decision when the =time comes. Needless to say that I am at your disposal for anything you may need from =down South. Thanks and best regards, Oscar "Tim Wilhelm" 08/03/01 07:26PM >>> Oscar, Among the other names you have received, Jeff Wagner offers classes andhe =is near Cleveland Ohio. You can also find a link to his website on the =rodmakers website. Tim Subject: Re: BAMBOO ROD BUILDING/MAKING CLASSES/LESSONS Hi Harry, Thank you for your prompt reply. Although I am a US citizen I am located in Argentina under assignment by =the corporation I work for. I am a hobbyist rod builder and would like to =develop further my very basic skills, so I thought I might spend some =quality time taking rod building lessons next spring or summer. Obviously =it would have to be in the States in 2002. Regards, Oscar Tell us where you are. Perhaps then we can recommend someone not too far= I am very interested in finding out regarding to rodmakers that offer =hands on classes/lessons on bamboo rod building/making. Could you offer me= Bob, Never is too late. Thank you!! I will contact Ralph immediately = Oscar, from = this response may be a bit late, but if you are going to be in the states = 2002, there will be a rodmaking class from which you will leave with a = blank grip and reel seat at the Bamboo Symposium at the 2002 FFFConclave.&= hurry if you're interested, as my understanding is we will limit it to = students and I think a couple have already signed up. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods http=://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Fro= Oscar =Segal Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 = AMSubject: Re: BAMBOO RODBUILDING/M= CLASSES/LESSONS Dear Rodmakers friends, I am overwhelmed by the response and dedication that you all have = Thank you ever so much. I will take advantage of the advise receive = everyone of you, and I am sure I will make the right decision when the = comes. Needless to say that I am at your disposal for anything you may = down South. Thanks and best regards, Oscar, Among the other names you have = link to his website on the rodmakers website. Tim ----- Original Message ----- F= Oscar = Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001= PMSubject: Re: BAMBOO ROD = CLASSES/LESSONS Hi Harry, Thank you for your prompt reply. Although I am a US citizen I am located in Argentina under = like to develop further my very basic skills, so I thought I might = Obviously it would have to be in the States in 2002. Regards, you = Perhaps then we can recommend someone not too far from your that offer hands on classes/lessons on bamboo rod building/making. = offer me advise on this matter? Your ehlp will be greatly appreciated.= "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Harry Boyd = -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ --Our = from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Aug 17 16:39:33 2001 f7HLdWZ06137 ;Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:39:22 +0000 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Power Plane This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Wrong Art. I also had Teflon pads on the sole and managed to cut hell =out of the form. The power plane is OK for some people but not my cup of =tea. The form is too narrow to get a good base for safe use of such a =tool. Just my .02 cents. Jack Wrong Art. I also had Teflon pads on = managed to cut hell out of the form. The power plane is OK for some = not my cup of tea. The form is too narrow to get a good base for safe = such a tool. Just my .02 cents. Jack from thogan@rochester.rr.com Fri Aug 17 16:39:36 2001 f7HLdaZ06142 f7HLdZb05274 Subject: Re: Power Plane I learned from Lon Blauvelt, and use a standard power plane to cut myoriginal triangles. I use a variety of wooden forms to get a constant taper,then I transfer these to the metal forms to start the exact work.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Power Plane TO ALL.Have any of the hand planers out there used a Power plane.The power plane that Micro-Mark has could be set up with a guidethat would ride down the top of the planing forms.Best Hal Bacon from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Aug 17 17:42:48 2001 f7HMgmZ08345 Subject: Binder Drive belt This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi all, I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but I cme up with a nifty drivebelt for my Garrison-style binder. I took a length of fly line (the level running line part, not a taperedsection) of the length needed for the drive belt and then took a braidedloop connector(the kind for connecting the fly line to the leader) and cut a1 1/4 inch piece off. I slipped the line into each end until the tips ofline touched forming the belt. I then glued the braided material so it wontfray. It works great and no more knots, no splicing et. It takes a total of about2 minutes to make. An added bonus for those going to silk lines, it gives you something to dowith your old plastic line!!!!! John K Hi all, I don't know if anyone else has = I cme up with a nifty drive belt for my Garrison-style =binder. I took a length of fly line (the = line part, not a tapered section) of the length needed for the drive = then took a braided loop connector(the kind for connecting the fly line = material so it wont fray. It works great and no more knots,no = An added bonus for those going to= gives you something to do with your old plastic line!!!!! JohnK from rmoon@ida.net Sat Aug 18 09:41:09 2001 f7IEf8Z20609 0000 Subject: Re: Binder Drive belt Super idea John. One question: does the fly line have enough tooth asto not slide on the drive wheel? Ralph from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sat Aug 18 09:58:05 2001 f7IEw4Z20949 Subject: Re: Binder Drive belt f7IEw5Z20950 Hey Ralph, I find that it doesn't slip anymore than anything else I have used. :-) I think if I did a better job of keeping dried glue off the wheel, I wouldn't getany slipping at all. I suppose that one could rough up the line a bit and/or play with diameters ofline. John K-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Binder Drive belt Super idea John. One question: does the fly line have enough tooth asto not slide on the drive wheel? Ralph from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Aug 18 10:14:28 2001 f7IFESZ21378 Subject: Re: Binder Drive Belt This is a multi-part message in MIME format. JohnGood idea, I'm gonna try it today.Only, I'm gonna use some old braided nylon fly line. I use a rubber band around the crank pulleyon my binder. It helps the belt not slip. BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} JohnGood idea, I'm gonna try it today. on my binder. It helps the belt not slip. from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sat Aug 18 11:06:49 2001 f7IG6mZ22151 Subject: Re: Binder Drive belt Super idea John. One question: does the fly line have enough tooth asto not slide on the drive wheel? Ralph I love John's idea of the loop connectors. I think it'd work well on thedacron planing board line I've been using for a belt, and that seems tohave enough tooth. David from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sat Aug 18 11:30:54 2001 f7IGUrZ22810 Subject: Re: Binder Drive Belt This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Tony, Let me know how it works for you. I have a pice of inner tube on the wheel,but I've got some glue build upthat has made it a bit slick. I just need to take the time to clean itproperly and I think that I'll be ok.(until it builds up again :-) ) John K-----Original Message-----From: Tony Miller Date: Saturday, August 18, 2001 11:15 AMSubject: Re: Binder Drive Belt JohnGood idea, I'm gonna try it today.Only, I'm gonna use some old braided nylon fly line.The loop connector is also a good idea.I use a rubber band around the crank pulleyon my binder. It helps the belt not slip.Give that a try. :)Tony Miller BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Hi Tony, Let me know how it works for you. I have a pice of inner tube on the wheel,but I've = to clean it properly and I think that I'll be ok. John K -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, August 18, 2001 11:15 AMSubject: Re:Binder = BeltJohnGood idea, I'm gonna try it today. on my binder. It helps the belt not slip. from goodaple@tcac.net Sat Aug 18 12:19:52 2001 f7IHJqZ23940 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) 0500 Subject: Re: Livingston and Home again... Bob, Did you happen to hit the Frying Pan or Roaring fork while in colorado?Maybe we crossed paths last week or driving home through Coloradoyesterday.Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Livingston and Home again... Well,Finally got through all 801 emails that were waiting when I got back from Livingston, so it's time to post a couple of things...FIRST... Ralph, it was great being in the booth with you again thisyear and I hope that is something that happens for many years to come...Those of you who have never had the honor of meeting Ralph Moon, youhavemissed something special. Ralph is not only a great gentleman and finerodmaker, but is one of the most prolific historians of both flyfishingandrodmaking that I've ever met, and I'm very proud to call him my friend....oh, and Ralph, sorry we didn't answer the voice mail message you and Patleft, but Billie didn't check her voice mail until sometime yesterday ineastern Colorado... Was a little late to drop by at that point! *S*Dennis Conrad... It was great seeing you again and even though whathappened to your truck was terrible, it was nice to know that I am NOT theonly one who has misadventures when I'm on the road... I got your personalemail and no need for any thanks... that's just what friends do whenneeded.Dennis Higham... Did we blow up the park after the bar b que orWHAT???LOL Guys, we drug out the old wooden fishin' poles and made a fewconvertsafter the FFF BBQ on Saturday night. Those of you that have met him,knowthat Dennis makes a damn fine stick and some of the finest casters in theworld were out there laying line out of his rods on the park grass.Actually, we didn't start this to convert people from the evil compositetothe sacred cane. It started because a friend of mine, Hans Weilenmannhadbeen so hooked up all week tying flies at the Conclave that he didn't getachance to play with any of the cane rods and asked me to bring a few tothepark... things just kinda snowballed from there. I think everyone who hadacane rod with them brought it out... you should have seen the look on thehardcore composite peoples faces when Mel Kreiger was false casting 55or60feet of line with a loop you couldn't squeeze a cat through... from a 5'6"4wt rod... It sure did quieten those whispers in the crowd about bamboobeing slow.Jim Bureau... uh... were you following me across the country? Went inafly shop in Buena Vista yesterday morning, wearing my FFF T-Shirt and theguy says... "There was a guy in here yesterday from Michigan that hadbeenup to Livingston..." I interrupted him... "Jim Bureau???" "Yep, that'stheone"... we looked for you in town but couldn't find where you were stayingso we wandered on up to the South Platte and enjoyed an afternoon withthetrouties.Everyone else, Lowell Davis and Scott (sorry, but I'm sure now you dounderstand why I opted for Billie as a room mate over you at the SRG),JerryMadigan (one of these days we really will get on the same water at thesametime), John Long (do you have blueprints for that bed in the Caravan?), itwas great to see all of you and I hope it won't be long before our pathscross again. Some of you, I know, will be at the Southern RodmakersGathering, which I am very much looking forward to.As for the trip itself, Timothy T asked for summary of the fishingtripand I'll do that later (got to catch up on sleep right now), but asalways,fishing was great... Mill Creek for Cuts, the Galatin, Spanish Creek fortheBrookies.... oh and I caught my first Montana Bonefish (whitefish) lastweek. Those little buggers put up quite a fight for their size! AfterI'mrested, I'll tell you about Trout Creek and the hailstorm (still have"nature's knuckle bumps" on top of my head. *S*) and the "trouts eyeview"of habitat on the Big Thompson. Oh, and if you ever go to fish RockyMountain NP... check the White House Website to make sure the Prez isn'tvisiting. You may come back to your car with Police tape all over it andfind out its "on the route" and has been check by the Secret Service forExplosive Materials... glad they didn't see my 12 ga. bear repellentlayingin the floorboard! Off to rest for awhile... Bob from lblan@provide.net Sat Aug 18 12:59:47 2001 f7IHxkZ24820 Subject: RE: Binder Drive belt If that is braided planer board line, just splice it to create an endlessloop. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- K.J. Scott Subject: Re: Binder Drive belt Super idea John. One question: does the fly line have enough tooth asto not slide on the drive wheel? Ralph I love John's idea of the loop connectors. I think it'd work well on thedacron planing board line I've been using for a belt, and that seems tohave enough tooth. David from rmoon@ida.net Sat Aug 18 13:50:31 2001 f7IIoUZ25916 Subject: Re: Binder Drive Belt I lined te drive wheel with silicone caulking. works fine on almost allbelts I have used. from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sat Aug 18 13:53:10 2001 f7IIrAZ26173 Subject: Re: Binder Drive Belt f7IIrAZ26174 Good idea!! I'll try that!!! JohnK-----Original Message----- I lined te drive wheel with silicone caulking. works fine on almost allbelts I have used. from bamboorods@saber.net Sat Aug 18 18:26:10 2001 f7INQ9Z29872 Subject: Easypoxy u bond This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Has anyone received any U Bond from Shannon lately? I have not heard a =thing for months. I am out of glue.Thanks,Chris Has anyone received any U Bond from = glue.Thanks,Chris from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sun Aug 19 00:02:29 2001 f7J52TZ04239 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: F.E Thomas This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Does anybody have pics of a F.E Thomas Moghany?? I think I might have onebut I would like to see one.. I have pics just email me for link.. Thanks Dave Does anybody have pics of a F.E Thomas Dave from jourdoktorn@chello.se Sun Aug 19 03:27:50 2001 f7J8RnZ05976 (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 licensea695420e49f967727839f4bc091d7585) Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:26:58 +0200 Subject: Re: F.E Thomas --------------CA68C6649CA6621A00944817 Dave, I have been collecting bamboo rods for many years now and myexperience is you can never be sure of the identity of a FE ThomasMahogany by the appearance only. Many Thomas Browntone rods are verydark by age. I think the best way to identify the rod is by its numberstamped in the bottom of the butt cap. You can then email the number toFE Thomas Rod Co and ask them. Here is the link http://www.fethomas.com/ Best Regards,Jan Nystrom Davesrods wrote: Does anybody have pics of a F.E Thomas Moghany?? I think I mighthave one but I would like to see one.. I have pics just email me forlink.. Thanks Dave --------------CA68C6649CA6621A00944817 Dave, Mahogany by the appearance only. Many Thomas Browntone rods are verydark in the bottom of the butt cap. You can then email the number to FE ThomasRod Co and ask them. Here is the link http://www.fethomas.com/Best Regards,Jan Nystrom Davesrods wrote: Does --------------CA68C6649CA6621A00944817-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Aug 19 09:27:38 2001 f7JERbZ08961 Subject: what luck! rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I bid on some fly reels on Ebay awhile back and when they arrived I was in the middle of moving up to Michigan from Indiana and never had a chance to look them over. Well, last night I finally got the chance and two out of four reels had silk lines on them. I only bid a little over $30.00 for these four reels so I guess there really is a God. Neither one of the lines needs to much done to them to fish them as well so whoever had these reels knew how to take care of their lines. Out of the dozen or so silks I have gotten this way these are the only two I do not have to recondition ala reed Curry's method.Bret I bid on some fly reels on Ebay awhile back and when they arrived Iwas in the middle of moving up to Michigan from Indiana and never had achance to out of four reels so I guess there really is a them as well so whoever had these reels knew how to take care of their lines. the dozen or so silks I have gotten this way these are the only two I donot have to recondition ala reed Curry's method.Bret from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sun Aug 19 10:43:15 2001 f7JFhEZ10235 (5.5.2653.19) djk762@earthlink.net,avyoung@iinet.net.au Subject: RE: Scarfing Help Needed Hi Joe, Although I am not one of the builders to whom David refers, I have builtnearly 40 nodeless rods with all scarfs done on a disk sander and have nothad a scarf failure. The glue that I use is Titebond 2. The sanding isdone with a 12" disk on a Shopsmith at slow speed, which I think is 600 rpm.I have used variously 80 to 120 grit paper. The surface is neitherpolished, or obviously frayed fibers as has been described in otherpostings. I use an angle jig on the saw table and run the strip into thespinning but stationary disk. It takes about 45 seconds for each end of astrip. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed What are they using to glue their scarf's? What grit paper? I had several failures on the scarf's using a disc sander. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Rodmakers- I know of two rodmakers who use a sanding disc exclusively for theirnodeless-they have been for years. Fished hard,no problems, many sales. -David Kashuba. Tony Young wrote: That's right. When gluing you need as thin a glue line as possible andthatmeans planed and preferably freshly planed surfaces. If you sand it's oktoget it to the rough stage but it should planed before scarfing. Tony At 06:23 AM 8/13/01 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:when you sand you leave nothing but a bunch of shredded fibers. Sandpaperis rocks glued to paper and if you want a good glue joint you have tocleave the fibers with a plane. When you glue sanded joints its likegluingtwo bundles of broom fibers together, the glue surface is only as big asthe width of each fiber and they are only as strong as their thicknesswhere they attach to the culm. /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html This is the Way for men who want to learn my strategy:Perceive those things which cannot be seen.Pay attention even to trifles. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Aug 19 11:12:34 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f7JGCYZ10938 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Scarfing Help Needed Bill - You know I was thinking of you when sending my earlier message in thisstream because I knew that's how you do it and that your rods are sound. Iwonder if the explanation could be the fact that you're using resorcinol toglue up the sections. It may be that this glue forms so strong a bond thatit holds the strips (scarfed or otherwise) firmly together, not permitting aweakness at a scarf joint to become a larger failure. I've used Titebond IIExtend and polyurethane glues for the sections. Like you I use Titebond II for scarfs which were cut on a power sanding rigat an angle of about 3 degrees. I'm careful to be sure the glued surfacesmate well and are clean of dust/fibers, I clamp each joint with three 3"long spring clamps for at least 12 hours. There is no visible glue lineafter the enamel is removed, although the scarf joint is sometimes visibledue to slightly different color of the two pieces of bamboo. Usually youhave to look hard at the finished section to see the scarf. But everyfailure I've had (and they've usually occurred during normal casting, notunfortunately while hauling in large fish) has started at a failed scarfjoint. So other than the resorcinol I'm at a loss to explain the difference,unless our power sanding methods are different enough to fray my fiberendsmore than yours. I'm going to try a few passes with the plane after sandingand see if that helps. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Scarfing Help Needed Hi Joe, Although I am not one of the builders to whom David refers, I have builtnearly 40 nodeless rods with all scarfs done on a disk sander and have nothad a scarf failure. The glue that I use is Titebond 2. The sanding isdone with a 12" disk on a Shopsmith at slow speed, which I think is 600 rpm.I have used variously 80 to 120 grit paper. The surface is neitherpolished, or obviously frayed fibers as has been described in otherpostings. I use an angle jig on the saw table and run the strip into thespinning but stationary disk. It takes about 45 seconds for each end of astrip. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed What are they using to glue their scarf's? What grit paper? I had several failures on the scarf's using a disc sander. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Rodmakers- I know of two rodmakers who use a sanding disc exclusively for theirnodeless-they have been for years. Fished hard,no problems, many sales. -David Kashuba. Tony Young wrote: That's right. When gluing you need as thin a glue line as possible andthatmeans planed and preferably freshly planed surfaces. If you sand it's oktoget it to the rough stage but it should planed before scarfing. Tony At 06:23 AM 8/13/01 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:when you sand you leave nothing but a bunch of shredded fibers. Sandpaperis rocks glued to paper and if you want a good glue joint you have tocleave the fibers with a plane. When you glue sanded joints its likegluingtwo bundles of broom fibers together, the glue surface is only as big asthe width of each fiber and they are only as strong as their thicknesswhere they attach to the culm. /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html This is the Way for men who want to learn my strategy:Perceive those things which cannot be seen.Pay attention even to trifles. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from rvenneri@ulster.net Sun Aug 19 11:15:00 2001 f7JGExZ11168 0400 Organization: Venneri's Custom Components Subject: catskill gathering, Hi Guys,I will be going to the gathering in roscoe in Sept. I will also beordering some solid bar stock Nickle silver(12%). If any body isinterested in some let me know and I will bring it along and save youshipping cost. The sizes will be .750 .875 .625 and .500 I may get 1.00if I have any body that wants some. I will be ordering end of nextweek. http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882 from harms1@pa.net Sun Aug 19 11:52:39 2001 f7JGqdZ11864 Subject: nodeless? All, Just for grins, I wonder if some of those who build nodeless rods couldexplain why they do that. I'll be the "devil's advocate" and proclaim, for openers, that nodeless rodsonly introduce potential problems for glue failures, while taking more time aesthetics. Thus, the objective of building a nodeless rod seems pointless,other than that a builder might simply "feel like" building one. Certainly,there's nothing wrong wih that--I like challanges too--but is there anyother good reason to build nodeless? Personally, I have no axe to grind either way, but building nodeless doespuzzle me. cheers, Bill from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 19 13:24:02 2001 f7JIO1Z13176 Subject: Re: nodeless? When I started, I felt more comfortable splicing than I did straightening and pressing nodes. Later I switched to noded after I became more comfortable with straightening. I do both now. Unusable strips I put back and cut the usable out and make nodeless of these. Gets the most out of a culm. With nodeless you can virtually use all of the culm except the nodes. However, you sacrifice 5" to 6" at every splice. With Noded, you have to cull the strips. Together, noded and nodeless compliment each other and the use of the culm is more efficient. Haven't experienced a failure with either method...yet! Asthetically, I like the nodes. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 12:50 PM 8/19/01 -0400, WILLIAM HARMS wrote:All, Just for grins, I wonder if some of those who build nodeless rods couldexplain why they do that. I'll be the "devil's advocate" and proclaim, for openers, that nodeless rodsonly introduce potential problems for glue failures, while taking more time aesthetics. Thus, the objective of building a nodeless rod seems pointless,other than that a builder might simply "feel like" building one. Certainly,there's nothing wrong wih that--I like challanges too--but is there anyother good reason to build nodeless? Personally, I have no axe to grind either way, but building nodeless doespuzzle me. cheers, Bill from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Aug 19 13:58:11 2001 f7JIwAZ13946 Subject: Re: nodeless? In a message dated 8/19/2001 9:53:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,harms1@pa.net writes: All, Just for grins, I wonder if some of those who build nodeless rods couldexplain why they do that. Bill, You de man!This should be fun. Mike ( only build nodeless because) Shay In a message dated8/19/2001 9:53:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, harms1@pa.net writes: All, Just for grins, I wonder if some of those who build nodeless rods couldexplain why they do that. Bill, You de man!This should be fun. Mike ( only build nodeless because) Shay from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Aug 19 14:20:16 2001 f7JJKFZ14968 (4596); Subject: Re: nodeless? should have said (only biuld wwith nodes because) should have said (onlybiuld wwith nodes because) from jojo@ipa.net Sun Aug 19 15:28:46 2001 f7JKSjZ16303 Subject: Re: Scarfing Help Needed Perhaps it is due to the slower speed at which he sands the strips, therebynot glazing the surface. Bill - You know I was thinking of you when sending my earlier message in thisstream because I knew that's how you do it and that your rods are sound. Iwonder if the explanation could be the fact that you're using resorcinoltoglue up the sections. It may be that this glue forms so strong a bond thatit holds the strips (scarfed or otherwise) firmly together, not permittingaweakness at a scarf joint to become a larger failure. I've used TitebondIIExtend and polyurethane glues for the sections. Like you I use Titebond II for scarfs which were cut on a power sandingrigat an angle of about 3 degrees. I'm careful to be sure the glued surfacesmate well and are clean of dust/fibers, I clamp each joint with three 3"long spring clamps for at least 12 hours. There is no visible glue lineafter the enamel is removed, although the scarf joint is sometimes visibledue to slightly different color of the two pieces of bamboo. Usually youhave to look hard at the finished section to see the scarf. But everyfailure I've had (and they've usually occurred during normal casting, notunfortunately while hauling in large fish) has started at a failed scarfjoint. So other than the resorcinol I'm at a loss to explain thedifference,unless our power sanding methods are different enough to fray my fiberendsmore than yours. I'm going to try a few passes with the plane aftersandingand see if that helps. Barry Hi Joe, Although I am not one of the builders to whom David refers, I have builtnearly 40 nodeless rods with all scarfs done on a disk sander and have nothad a scarf failure. The glue that I use is Titebond 2. The sanding isdone with a 12" disk on a Shopsmith at slow speed, which I think is 600rpm.I have used variously 80 to 120 grit paper. The surface is neitherpolished, or obviously frayed fibers as has been described in otherpostings. I use an angle jig on the saw table and run the strip into thespinning but stationary disk. It takes about 45 seconds for each end of astrip. Bill Lamberson What are they using to glue their scarf's? What grit paper? I had several failures on the scarf's using a disc sander. Joe From: "David Kashuba" Rodmakers- I know of two rodmakers who use a sanding disc exclusively for theirnodeless-they have been for years. Fished hard,no problems, many sales. -David Kashuba. from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Aug 19 15:30:54 2001 f7JKUsZ16587 (16642) Subject: torch To all you good gentle persons, I have been trying to find a proper torch to use for silver-soldering. A recent post on the list mentioned a propane torch. Someone wrote a whileback and listed a metal working / jewelers site. That site mentioned a "presto-lite" torch fueled by aceteline. My puny question is ... is propane hot enough to do a clean job of silver- soldering or is a hotter fuel required? When soldering, is the propane torch I normally use for flaming cane too big or do I need a "pencil" type flame? The torch I use now hooks up to a 5 gallon propane tank (converted from a pint size tank). The flame is fairly wide and looks too massive to solder small joints. My feeling is I need a hotter more intense, condensed flamed to solder ferrules, reel seats and the like. If one uses aceteline, do you also need to use oxygen? As always, any help is always appreciated, Mike (in the dark) Shay To all you good gentlepersons, I have been trying to find a proper torch to use for silver-soldering. A recent post on the list mentioned a propane torch. Someone wrote awhile back and listed a metal working / jewelers site. That site mentioned a "presto-lite" torch fueled by aceteline. My puny question is ... is propane hot enough to do a clean job of silver- soldering or is a hotter fuel required? When soldering, is thepropane torch I normally use for flaming cane too big or do I need a "pencil" type flame? The torch I use now hooks up to a 5 gallon propane tank (converted from a pint size tank). The flame is fairly wide and looks too massive to solder condensed flamed to solder ferrules, reel seats and the like. If one uses aceteline, do you also need to use oxygen? As always, any help is always appreciated, Mike (in the dark) Shay from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Aug 19 15:35:26 2001 f7JKZQZ16871 Subject: Re: what luck! You really like letting the cat out the bag don't you? I guess if anybody gave it any thought eBay would be the first place they would look for used silk lines. The only "secret" to it is the lines are on old reels. It seems to me that old automatic reels tend to have lines on them more than regular reels. Now that we are confessing our sources, in the last 2 months I've gotten 10 silk lines and paid a total of $100. 4 or the lines were double tapered, and another 2 had a taper intact on one end but not the other. The rest were level line, but all you have to do is put an Orvis braided tapered leader on it and it fishes just fine. A couple of the reels with silk lines on them I paid only $4.95 and shipping. True, I've had to restore a few of the lines, but 3 of the full double tapered lines were in perfect condition. All I had to do is transfer them on to my reels and go fishing. I have enough silk lines for myself now so I'm "retiring" from bidding on them on eBay. If you want a silk line cheap search Sports:Sporting_Goods:Fishing:Vintage:Reels. If you are lucky thepictures will show the line and you will be able to see that it is a silk line. If you are really lucky you will be able to see it is tapered. My word of advice is determine how much you want to spend on a reel that you feel might have a silk line on it and don't get carried away when the bidding gets hot. Darryl Youreally like letting the cat out the bag don't you? I guess if anybody gave it any thought eBay would be the first place they would look forused silk lines. The only "secret" to it is the lines are on old reels. It seems to me that old automatic reels tend to have lines on them more thanregular reels. Now that we are confessing our sources, in the last 2 months I'vegotten 10 silk lines and paid a total of $100. 4 or the lines were double tapered,and another 2 had a taper intact on one end but not the other. The restwere level line, but all you have to do is put an Orvis braided tapered leaderon it and it fishes just fine. A couple of the reels with silk lines on them I paid only $4.95 and shipping. True, I've had to restore a few of the lines, but 3 of the full double tapered lines were in perfect condition. All I had to do is transfer themon to my reels and go fishing. I have enough silk lines for myself now so I'm "retiring" from bidding on them on eBay. If you want a silk line cheap search Sports:Sporting_Goods:Fishing:Vintage:Reels. Ifyou are lucky the pictures will show the line and you will be able to see that it is a silk line. If you are really lucky you will be able to see it is tapered. My word of advice is determine how much you want to spend on a reel that you feel mighthave a silk line on it and don't get carried away when the bidding gets hot. Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Aug 19 15:50:30 2001 f7JKoTZ17447 Subject: Re: torch Jewelry making is my other hobby. You will probably be able to silver solder with a propane torch - I say probably because it isn't the temperature, but the size of the flame you need to worry about. Typical propane torches will probably blow the smaller ferrules off of your soldering block. An acetylene only torch is good for silver soldering, get a torch with different sizes of tips. Oxy-acetylene would be needed only if you want to do some casting or welding. There are different grades of silver solder, from easy (sometimes it is called soft, but it really isn't "soft") to hard. The easy has more tin in the alloy so that it melts at a lower temperature. Easy is fine for ferrules. Darryl Jewelry making is my other hobby. You will probably be able to silversolder with a propane torch - I say probably because it isn't the temperature,but the size of the flame you need to worry about. Typical propane torcheswill probably blow the smaller ferrules off of your soldering block. Anacetylene only torch is good for silver soldering, get a torch with different sizesof tips. Oxy-acetylene would be needed only if you want to do some castingor welding. There are different grades of silver solder, from easy (sometimes it is called soft, but it really isn't "soft") to hard. The easy has more tin in the alloy so that it melts at a lower temperature. Easy is fine forferrules. Darryl from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 19 16:09:47 2001 f7JL9kZ17914 Subject: Re: torch Mike, I've done quite a bit of hobby type of silver soldering. I've only used a propane torch. The size of torch you need is dependent on the size of what you are trying to solder. I made a freehand tool rest for my minilathe out of 1" x 1/2" brass bar and silver soldered a 2 1/2" x 1/4" rod to the top of it. The lower leg was about 2 inches long and the upright about the same. I used one of the screw on standard size propane torch. Worked fine. For ferrules I would choose one of the pencil torches. I've done equivalent with a $3.50 pencil torch but don't recommend it. The things have a tendency to flame out just as you are getting the part and solder hot enough to solder. I would not recommend the soldering iron/torch combination sold for around $40 either as the torch function is not quite up to silver soldering although the more expensive Pyropen and Pyropen Jr. (made by Weller) are. You should be able to find a pencil sized torch that will silver solder ferrules for less than $20. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 04:30 PM 8/19/01 -0400, Troutgetter@aol.com wrote:To all you good gentle persons, I have been trying to find a proper torch to use for silver-soldering. Arecent post on the list mentioned a propane torch. Someone wrote a whilebackand listed a metal working / jewelers site. That site mentioned a"presto-lite" torch fueled by aceteline. My puny question is ... is propane hot enough to do a clean job ofsilver- soldering or is a hotter fuel required? When soldering, is the propanetorch I normally use for flaming cane too big or do I need a "pencil" typeflame? The torch I use now hooks up to a 5 gallon propane tank (converted from apint size tank). The flame is fairly wide and looks too massive to soldersmall joints. My feeling is I need a hotter more intense, condensed flamedto solder ferrules, reel seats and the like. If one uses aceteline, do you also need to use oxygen? As always, any help is always appreciated, Mike (in the dark) Shay from thogan@rochester.rr.com Sun Aug 19 16:57:04 2001 f7JLv3Z18752 f7JLv4b07497 Subject: Payne 101 I give up.I looked up the taper for the Payne 101 in from 2 different sources.Maurer and Elser's book, and the taper archivehttp://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/jpayne/payne101.html They are completely 2 different rods, far more than any varnish vs. nonvarnish would account for.Does this mean that 2 people claimed to have a 101 and took accuratemeasurments, and came this far off?Perhaps I am trying to be more scientific than this craft currentlysupports, but any explanation would be appreciated. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Aug 19 17:05:26 2001 f7JM5PZ19092 (18564); Subject: Re: torch Dear Mike, I'm pretty sure the repair guys in the music store use MAPP gas to silver solder. I thing bottles are available from McMaster Carr. Rob Hoffhines from jim_hecht@hotmail.com Sun Aug 19 17:44:44 2001 f7JMiiZ19823 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:44:40 -0700 HTTP; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:44:39 GMT Subject: tung oil for spacers? FILETIME=[87F36A60:01C12900] I don't recall seeing muchdiscussion in the past about using tung oil to finish wood spacers for reel from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sun Aug 19 19:33:45 2001 f7K0XiZ21868 ;Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:33:40 +0000 Subject: Re: nodeless? Bill:You really are opening up a can of worms now. Of course you did start withjust for grins in your message. You also know how to get Chris Bogart out ofhis tree with statements like that.Hope you are going to the 2001 Gathering so we nodeless rod makers can getyou straightened out. Jack from harms1@pa.net Sun Aug 19 20:39:38 2001 f7K1dbZ23161 Subject: Re: tung oil for spacers? James, Tung oil works just great--except that it doesn't offer much in the way ofmoisture protection. Oh, and it doesn't offer much physical protectioneither, as it is a soft finish. But it looks great, and it's easy to justrub it on. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: tung oil for spacers? I don't recall seeing much discussion in the past about using tung oil tofinish wood spacers for reel seats, as opposed to rods. Is there any reasonit would not work well for this application? Other thoughts? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from harms1@pa.net Sun Aug 19 20:41:45 2001 f7K1fjZ23368 Subject: Re: nodeless? Jack, Why, you ol' curmudgeon, you! Me an' my boys will take care of you up atRoscoe. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: nodeless? Bill:You really are opening up a can of worms now. Of course you did start withjust for grins in your message. You also know how to get Chris Bogart outofhis tree with statements like that.Hope you are going to the 2001 Gathering so we nodeless rod makers cangetyou straightened out. Jack from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 00:11:57 2001 f7K5BuZ27284 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:11:52 -0700 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 05:11:52 GMT Subject: Re: Payne 101 FILETIME=[9F832770:01C12936] I think that this is due to what I call 'beveler variation'. Almost all of the old line builders worked in a different world than we do. They fussed about 64 ths of an inch and not thousandths. Not to say that there were not variations in how well each one held to the original taper though. Payne was pretty good, Leonard was notorious for the variation of it's rods. Seems like alot of variation in Young's stuff. Granger was good. As an exercise look at a Leonard 50DF, Payne 201, Granger 8ft, Dickerson 801611 and tryto draw your own conclusion using the information that even Dickerson who was considered quite fussy allowed the taper to vary .008". I use a saw type of beveler along with my Bellinger/Dickerson and can tell you that the saw beveler is one of the most capricious and fussy pieces of machinery ever made. Great if you want to saw out 20 + rods , completely useless if you want to blast out one or two of this and that. The reason we can talk in .001" these days is due to the exceptional accuracy that the Garrison type of planing bars permits. Even knowing all this I still cannot divorce myself from the .001" syndrome and still finish the splines by hand on a set of bars.A.J. From: "taylor hogan" Subject: Payne 101Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:54:57 -0400 I give up.I looked up the taper for the Payne 101 in from 2 different sources.Maurer and Elser's book, and the taper archivehttp://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/jpayne/payne101.html They are completely 2 different rods, far more than any varnish vs. nonvarnish would account for.Does this mean that 2 people claimed to have a 101 and took accuratemeasurments, and came this far off?Perhaps I am trying to be more scientific than this craft currentlysupports, but any explanation would be appreciated. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 20 00:31:21 2001 f7K5VIZ27814 Subject: Re: nodeless? There are some issues with nodeless construction as well as benefits andany pros comes down to how well you handle the cons.The biggest single possible problem is the glue. I've mentioned theproblems I've had with glue before on list and wont go into it again onlist but provided you have a dependable glue and use good gluing practiceand preparation of the scarfs the other cons all come down to technique. Maximizing bamboo:Pro: It's possible to get over 30 strips to a culm easily because you'reonly splitting bamboo between nodes so the length of the split is around12" or there abouts.Pro: You can split each section in to the width you want (thin - wide andeverything in between) thereby reduce the time it takes to plane excessivebamboo.Pro: Use almost all of a culm due to not having to worry about nodestaggering of a strip as it comes from the culm including the ability tochop out undesirable parts of a strip such as worm holes, grower'sgraffiti and drying splits in inconvenient places.Pro: It matters not a jot if the culm is bent like a pretzel. Pro: The nodes burn well :-)Con: You waste some bamboo at every scarf but it's less waste than you'dget when staggering nodes and rejecting strips due to flaws.... mostly. Node preparation:Pro: Using a slick and plane I can cut a 1:22 scarf faster than I can fileand press a node. Con: It takes time to glue the scarf and it's messy. Planing nodes: Pro: The strips are as straight as you want to make them at the scarfgluing stage.Pro: What are nodes?Con: See above. Node staggering:Pro: The sections are layed out and made to length taking into accountwhere the scarfs lay relative to each other before gluing the scarfs tomake the strip.Pro: What are nodes?Con: You need to glue the sections. Heat treating:Pro: Every Western society kitchen with power I ever saw had a stove. Asithappens mine is an old stove but the thermostat is very accurate (I'vetested it) and yours may be too so don't just write the stove off untilyou check.Con: I'll need to think about one. I guess if I had to put in a token conI'd say your stove may not have an accurate thermostat but it's likely asgood or better than the average heat control over the whole oven used lot of people's full strip length ovens unless you go to a lot of messingabout making the oven work properly which you need to do in the end. Heat straightening:Con: Possibly huge problems. The trick is using a glue for the scarf thatwill either withstand without failing due to the heat required to allowstraightening of the blank or use a glue that will regain 100% strengthonce the heat is removed. The latter is preferable IMHO. Rod action:Pro: Who can tell?Con: Who can tell? Rod strength at the node/scarf:Pro: Discounting possible scarf failure due to inconsistent glue or poortechnique it's not an issue for a rod in use.Con: Discounting possible weakness due to worm holes or poor/inconsistentnode preparation technique Not an issue for a rod in use. Personally I think the two methods have as much going for and against themas each other. Some operations are easier some are not.If you are a beginner and don't want to make an oven try nodeless.If you live where due to import tax laws and lousy exchange rates a culmcosts > $200 so every inch counts definitely try nodeless.If you have a quick means of cutting and gluing scarfs try nodeless.If you cannot accept the possibly of scarf failure (ever) due to any numberof possible reasons don't try nodeless.If you like nodes (yeah???) don't try nodeless. Tony At 12:50 PM 8/19/01 -0400, WILLIAM HARMS wrote:All, Just for grins, I wonder if some of those who build nodeless rods couldexplain why they do that. I'll be the "devil's advocate" and proclaim, for openers, that nodeless rodsonly introduce potential problems for glue failures, while taking more time aesthetics. Thus, the objective of building a nodeless rod seems pointless,other than that a builder might simply "feel like" building one. Certainly,there's nothing wrong wih that--I like challanges too--but is there anyother good reason to build nodeless? Personally, I have no axe to grind either way, but building nodeless doespuzzle me. cheers, Bill /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Windows NT crashed.I am the Blue Screen of Death.No one hears your screams. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 20 02:09:29 2001 f7K79RZ00034 Subject: Re: nodeless? To node, or not to node, that is the question:-Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the swellings and twists ofoutrageous nodes:Or to take hacksaw against this strip of troubles and by removing, binthem, to scarf and rest? No more and by a cut to say we end the heart ache and the thousand naturalbends that bamboo is heir to - definitely an outcome to be aimed for.To cut, to glue, to bind maybe even whistle a little tune:- arh, andthere's the rub: When we have measur'd, mark'd and cut, When we have shuffled off wearily to bed,Must give us pause: There's the hassle of trusting glue so much, The owners of failed scarf'd rods? The pangs and pain of full length splits,The cause of wide glue lines, the grain has lifted,The savagery of file andheat gun, and the nasty little burns associated,To grunt and sweat, the oven is a bitch to make and still wont work,The patient merit the unworthy takes when he has split and filed well, thesatisfaction high. The speed and ease of a short, sharp split,The tailor made width of the member soon to be scarf'd into a strip ram rodstraight,To with kitchen oven heat and temper right after roasting the Sundaychicken,The spline that fights not in the groove of the form and planes of asingular motion, But, that dread of something after the sale, the hope no broken rod returnspuzzles the will,And makes us rather bear the ills of regular construction over the meritsof nodeless:Thus, glue failure makes cowards of us all.Arh nodal tear out, where is thy sting? Tony /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Aug 20 06:12:45 2001 f7KBChZ01996 f7KBCSn89793; Subject: Re: nodeless? Methinks from the things that here are writ,That Shakespeare's ghost came in to sit! Peter :-) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: nodeless? To node, or not to node, that is the question:-Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the swellings and twists ofoutrageous nodes:Or to take hacksaw against this strip of troubles and by removing, binthem, to scarf and rest? No more and by a cut to say we end the heart ache and the thousandnaturalbends that bamboo is heir to - definitely an outcome to be aimed for.To cut, to glue, to bind maybe even whistle a little tune:- arh, andthere's the rub: When we have measur'd, mark'd and cut,When we have shuffled off wearily to bed,Must give us pause: There's the hassle of trusting glue so much, The owners of failed scarf'd rods? The pangs and pain of full length splits,The cause of wide glue lines, the grain has lifted,The savagery of file and heat gun, and the nasty little burns associated,To grunt and sweat, the oven is a bitch to make and still wont work,The patient merit the unworthy takes when he has split and filed well, thesatisfaction high. The speed and ease of a short, sharp split,The tailor made width of the member soon to be scarf'd into a strip ramrodstraight,To with kitchen oven heat and temper right after roasting the Sundaychicken,The spline that fights not in the groove of the form and planes of asingular motion, But, that dread of something after the sale, the hope no broken rodreturnspuzzles the will,And makes us rather bear the ills of regular construction over the meritsof nodeless:Thus, glue failure makes cowards of us all.Arh nodal tear out, where is thy sting? Tony /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from dickay@alltel.net Mon Aug 20 07:23:35 2001 f7KCNZZ02752 srv.alltel.net Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:23:35 -0500 Subject: Re: torch I was wondering when someone was going to mention MAPP gas. MAPP is thenext step up from propane as far as heat is concerned. Then Prest-O-Lite.Prest-O-Lite can be used alone or with oxygen. Plumbers use it alone tosolder copper pipes. A long run of copper is quite a heat sink and if thereis any water in the line it really sinks the heat. I use Prest-O-Lite withoxygen for the brazing that I do on air conditioning lines as they must holdmuch more pressure. Up to 1000 PSIG with the new refrigerants atabnormalconditions. There are other commercially available mixtures for certain applications butthese are too hard to find and too expensive for our use. They also need tobe purchased in large quantities to be any kind of cost effective. If you want something hotter try MAPP in your propane torch. It isavailable at most hardware stores. I have seen it at the major chains.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: torch Dear Mike, I'm pretty sure the repair guys in the music store use MAPP gas to silversolder. I thing bottles are available from McMaster Carr. Rob Hoffhines from dmanders@telusplanet.net Mon Aug 20 07:45:41 2001 f7KCjeZ03236 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:42:13 -0600 Subject: Re: Tung oil for spacers? Jim, I've used Tung Oil for reel seats when I started building years ago. Theoil give a pleasing finish that is easy to do. The trouble is some folkslike to dip their reel seats in the creek every time they turn loose afish. As Tung oil doesn't stop moisture, the reel seat insert swellsmaking reel removal tough. Last fall, in a day where I should have stayed in camp, we had rain,snow, sleet and generally wet conditions [ the BWO's were on big time -the cutthroats easy - but that's another story ] The rod I fished wasequipped with a reel seat that had been finished with Tung oil. The woodswelled enough that the rod rode on the dash back to camp and even then,I needed pliers to back off the reel seat locking screw. This was on oneof my own rods where I use the method of a coat of finish a day for aweek/ a coat a week for a month and a coat a month when fishing. the wood without trouble. Spinning the wood @ 2000 or so and hitting itwith the back side of wet/dry paper thereby warming the wood up whileapplying the varnish gives a great finish. Very little swelling on theseseats. regards, Don At 06:44 PM 8/19/01 -0400, James Hecht wrote: I don't recall seeing much discussion in the past about usingtung oil to finish wood spacers for reel seats, as opposed to rods. Isthere any reason it would not work well for this application? Otherthoughts? ---------- Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Aug 20 07:52:51 2001 f7KCqoZ03568 Subject: Lathe parts This is a multi-part message in MIME format. This is just some info I got this weekend and thought I would pass it =on. A number of people have mentioned Atlas lathes or Craftsman/Atlas =lathes. What I found out was that the Clausing lathe people bought out =Atlas and you may want to call them for parts. I don't have their phone =number or email addy, but if you need parts you might look them up. Mike This is just some info I got this = or Craftsman/Atlas lathes. What I found out was that the Clausing lathe = bought out Atlas and you may want to call them for parts. I don't have = up. Mike from homes-sold@home.com Mon Aug 20 08:40:18 2001 f7KDeHZ05462 femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: test This is a multi-part message in MIME format. test test from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Aug 20 09:08:04 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f7KE84Z07504 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: nodeless? Bill - Your assumption that nodeless takes longer may be questionable consideringall the stuff I've read about the straightening and restraightening ofstrips with nodes. The main practical advantage is that I can heat treat short sections of culm(which result when you cut out the nodes) in my home oven. Aside from nothaving to build a special oven, I've found it easy to get very consistenttempering. Also, for what it's worth, you don't have the trouble that nodesseem to pose in planing (I know, a sharp blade makes everything OK). Finally, the reason for the mystery about scarf failures in recent posts isthat the scarf joints are normally stronger than the bamboo. When you breaka nodeless strip, it normally doesn't break at the scarfs. In fact I washesitant to bring up my problems because of the crowing I anticipated fromthe noded makers - not that you crowed, you just asked! Most of all, I like what you said about "feeling like it" being a goodenough reason. Of course if one sells rods they have to be a good value,which includes strength and reliability. (I don't sell them but lots ofnodeless makers do.) But as I've said before, even our most cherishedancient methods came into their own around the time my dad was takingstreetcars to dime double- features in St. Louis - a good while ago, buthardly ancient history shrouded in reverence. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: nodeless? All, Just for grins, I wonder if some of those who build nodeless rods couldexplain why they do that. I'll be the "devil's advocate" and proclaim, for openers, that nodeless rodsonly introduce potential problems for glue failures, while taking more time aesthetics. Thus, the objective of building a nodeless rod seems pointless,other than that a builder might simply "feel like" building one. Certainly,there's nothing wrong wih that--I like challanges too--but is there anyother good reason to build nodeless? Personally, I have no axe to grind either way, but building nodeless doespuzzle me. cheers, Bill from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Aug 20 09:08:08 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f7KE88Z07515 (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: what luck! This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Darryl - I've been doing the same thing, even got one of the higher volume sellers tosell me just the lines for $5 or $10 since their absence didn't reduce thevalue of his (usually crappy) reels. But most of them are level lines andyour comment about tapered braided leaders is wonderful. Thanks!!! Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: what luck! You really like letting the cat out the bag don't you? I guess if anybody gave it any thought eBay would be the first place they would look for used silk lines. The only "secret" to it is the lines are on old reels. It seems to me that old automatic reels tend to have lines on them more than regular reels. Now that we are confessing our sources, in the last 2 months I've gotten 10 silk lines and paid a total of $100. 4 or the lines were double tapered, and another 2 had a taper intact on one end but not the other. The rest were level line, but all you have to do is put an Orvis braided tapered leader on it and it fishes just fine. A couple of the reels with silk lines on them I paid only $4.95 and shipping. True, I've had to restore a few of the lines, but 3 of the full double tapered lines were in perfect condition. All I had to do is transfer them on to my reels and go fishing. I have enough silk lines for myself now so I'm "retiring" from bidding on them on eBay. If you want a silk line cheap search Sports:Sporting_Goods:Fishing:Vintage:Reels. If you are lucky the pictures will show the line and you will be able to see that it is a silk line. Ifyou are really lucky you will be able to see it is tapered. My word of advice is determine how much you want to spend on a reel that you feel might have a silk line on it and don't get carried away when the bidding gets hot. Darryl 0DocumentEmail D=arryl – I=’ve beendoing the same thing, even got one of the higher volume sellers to sell =me justthe lines for $5 or $10 since their absence didn’t reduce the =value of his(usually crappy) reels. But most of them are level lines and your =comment abouttapered braided leaders is =wonderful. T=hanks!!! B=arry -----OriginalMessage-----From: =DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 19,=2001 3:35PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: what =luck! You really like =lettingthe cat out the bag don't you? I guess if anybody gave it any thought eBay would be the first place they would look for =used silk lines. The only "secret" to it is the lines are on old =reels. Itseems to me that old automatic reels tend to have lines on them more than =regular reels. Now that we are confessing our sources, in the last 2 months I've =gotten 10 silk lines and paid a total of $100. 4 or the lines were double =tapered, and another 2 had a taper intact on one end but not the other. The rest =were level line, but all you have to do is put an Orvis braided tapered =leader on it and it fishes just fine. A couple of the reels with silk lines on =them I paid only $4.95 and shipping. True, I've had to restore a few of the lines, but 3 of the full double = tapered lines were in perfect condition. All I had to do is transfer =them on to my reels and go fishing. I have enough silk lines for myself now so I'm "retiring" =frombidding on them on eBay. If you want a silk line cheap search Sports:Sporting_Goods:Fishing:Vintage:Reels. If you are lucky the =pictures will show the line and you will be able to see that it is a silk line. =If you are really lucky you will be able to see it is tapered. My word of =advice is determine how much you want to spend on a reel that you feel might have =a silk line on it and don't get carried away when the bidding gets hot. = Darryl = from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Aug 20 09:16:43 2001 f7KEGgZ08200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: what luck! All,I have also found some good lines on old Cortland "333" reel spools.When the owner bought his first plastic line he retired the silk line to the new spool. FOr $10 I got an excellent amber WF6 silk that way and several double tapers, as well.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from Canerods@aol.com Mon Aug 20 10:59:38 2001 f7KFxbZ17368 Subject: Re: torch In a message dated 8/19/01 1:31:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Troutgetter@aol.com writes: To all you good gentle persons, I have been trying to find a proper torch to use for silver-soldering. A recent post on the list mentioned a propane torch. Someone wrote a while back and listed a metal working / jewelers site. That site mentioned a "presto-lite" torch fueled by aceteline. My puny question is ... is propane hot enough to do a clean job of silver- soldering or is a hotter fuel required? When soldering, is the propane torch I normally use for flaming cane too big or do I need a "pencil" type flame? The torch I use now hooks up to a 5 gallon propane tank (converted from a pint size tank). The flame is fairly wide and looks too massive to solder small joints. My feeling is I need a hotter more intense, condensed flamed to solder ferrules, reel seats and the like. If one uses aceteline, do you also need to use oxygen? As always, any help is always appreciated, Mike (in the dark) Shay Mike, What are you trying to silver-solder? If small items, then you can buy a torch at Radio Shack that works fine. The one that I have uses small tanks that look like the CO2 tanks used for many purposes. The flame is a very hot pinpoint. Or if you are working on larger stuff, then you can buy tanks of MAP gasthat screw into Burn-o-matic propane torches. You can melt silver solder or even bronze brazing wire. In a message dated8/19/01 1:31:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Troutgetter@aol.com writes: To all you goodgentle persons, I have been trying to find a proper torch to use for silver-soldering. A recent post on the list mentioned a propane torch. Someone wrote awhile back and listed a metal working / jewelers site. That site mentioned a "presto-lite" torch fueled by aceteline. My puny question is ... is propane hot enough to do a clean job of silver- soldering or is a hotter fuel required? When soldering, is the propane torch I normally use for flaming cane too big or do I need a "pencil" type flame? The torch I use now hooks up to a 5 gallon propane tank (converted from a pint size tank). The flame is fairly wide and looks too massive to solder condensed flamed to solder ferrules, reel seats and the like. If one uses aceteline, do you also need to use oxygen? As always, any help is always appreciated, Mike (in the dark) Shay Mike, What are you trying to silver-solder? If small items, then you can buy a torch at Radio Shack that works fine.The one that I have uses small tanks that look like the CO2 tanks used formany purposes. The flame is a very hot pinpoint. Or if you are working on larger stuff, then you can buy tanks of MAPgas that screw into Burn-o-matic propane torches. You can melt silver solder oreven bronze brazing wire. from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Aug 20 11:31:08 2001 f7KGV7Z19404 0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: nodeless? I have never built nodeless. I never thought dealing with nodes as being ahassle. If you followed Garrison's procedure, maybe. But heating andpressing is so simple. I find it hard to believe splicing is as fast. I find it interesting though that sawing your bamboo into strips as opposedto splitting has been met with much disdain, but cutting it into smallsections and gluing them back together is OK. Tom from harms1@pa.net Mon Aug 20 11:37:28 2001 f7KGbQZ20005 Subject: Re: nodeless? Tony, I just retired this year after 33 years of teaching English literature onthe college level, so I think I'm qualified in saying this is probably theworst poem I ever read in my life! But worse, you've ruined my ability everto hear Hamlet again without thinking of your stupid nodes (sort of liketrying, against all odds, to appreciate the "William Tell Overture" afterThe Lone Ranger). Finally, in one swell foop, you have deepened my resolvenever, never to build a nodeless rod! (On the other hand, you build a hell of a good ferrule at a good price, andconsidering that I may want to visit Australia some day, these are reasonsenough to forgive you.) cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: nodeless? To node, or not to node, that is the question:-Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the swellings and twists ofoutrageous nodes:Or to take hacksaw against this strip of troubles and by removing, binthem, to scarf and rest? No more and by a cut to say we end the heart ache and the thousandnaturalbends that bamboo is heir to - definitely an outcome to be aimed for.To cut, to glue, to bind maybe even whistle a little tune:- arh, andthere's the rub: When we have measur'd, mark'd and cut,When we have shuffled off wearily to bed,Must give us pause: There's the hassle of trusting glue so much, The owners of failed scarf'd rods? The pangs and pain of full length splits,The cause of wide glue lines, the grain has lifted,The savagery of file and heat gun, and the nasty little burns associated,To grunt and sweat, the oven is a bitch to make and still wont work,The patient merit the unworthy takes when he has split and filed well, thesatisfaction high. The speed and ease of a short, sharp split,The tailor made width of the member soon to be scarf'd into a strip ramrodstraight,To with kitchen oven heat and temper right after roasting the Sundaychicken,The spline that fights not in the groove of the form and planes of asingular motion, But, that dread of something after the sale, the hope no broken rodreturnspuzzles the will,And makes us rather bear the ills of regular construction over the meritsof nodeless:Thus, glue failure makes cowards of us all.Arh nodal tear out, where is thy sting? Tony /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 20 12:28:22 2001 f7KHSKZ22956 Subject: Re: nodeless? Everybody's a critic :-)Exit, stage left! Tony At 12:33 PM 8/20/01 -0400, WILLIAM HARMS wrote:Tony, I just retired this year after 33 years of teaching English literature onthe college level, so I think I'm qualified in saying this is probably theworst poem I ever read in my life! But worse, you've ruined my ability everto hear Hamlet again without thinking of your stupid nodes (sort of liketrying, against all odds, to appreciate the "William Tell Overture" afterThe Lone Ranger). Finally, in one swell foop, you have deepened my resolvenever, never to build a nodeless rod! (On the other hand, you build a hell of a good ferrule at a good price, andconsidering that I may want to visit Australia some day, these are reasonsenough to forgive you.) cheers, Bill /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Aug 20 12:40:11 2001 f7KHeAZ23776 Subject: Re: nodeless? At 12:33 PM 8/20/01 -0400, Jill and Tom Used wrote:I have never built nodeless. I never thought dealing with nodes as being ahassle. If you followed Garrison's procedure, maybe. But heating andpressing is so simple. I find it hard to believe splicing is as fast. The making of the scarf can be quick, it's the gluing and binding the scarfthat takes the time so it sort of averages out. I find it interesting though that sawing your bamboo into strips as opposedto splitting has been met with much disdain, but cutting it into smallsections and gluing them back together is OK. I used to think people recommended splitting strips because they didn't owna band saw but I was wrong. Sawing strips is such an aggravating method ofgetting out strips by comparison with splitting especially using the BobNunley method that to do it any other way is a waste of time and effort.I know there are people who do saw strips but I've also known people whorode uni cycles carrying a bag of concrete on their backs for 300 milestoo. The kids who received the sponsorship for their efforts appreciated itbut I'd never do either activities again. :-) Tony /**************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way. Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Mon Aug 20 13:24:11 2001 f7KIOBZ25949 0000 Subject: Re: nodeless? Tony I was thinking in terms of the Pulitzer prize. Then I read it againRalph Sorry, but I do think it pertained to rod building!!! from anglport@con2.com Mon Aug 20 15:34:07 2001 f7KKY6Z05820 Subject: Re: nodeless? Without denigrating the work of earlier rhymers, I think we have theRodmakers' Poet Laureate for at least the first decade of the 21st century!(Plagiarism? What's plagiarism? Or what's a heaven for??)Art ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: nodeless? To node, or not to node, that is the question:-Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the swellings and twists ofoutrageous nodes:Or to take hacksaw against this strip of troubles and by removing, binthem, to scarf and rest? No more and by a cut to say we end the heart ache and the thousandnaturalbends that bamboo is heir to - definitely an outcome to be aimed for.To cut, to glue, to bind maybe even whistle a little tune:- arh, andthere's the rub: When we have measur'd, mark'd and cut,When we have shuffled off wearily to bed,Must give us pause: There's the hassle of trusting glue so much, The owners of failed scarf'd rods? The pangs and pain of full length splits,The cause of wide glue lines, the grain has lifted,The savagery of file and heat gun, and the nasty little burns associated,To grunt and sweat, the oven is a bitch to make and still wont work,The patient merit the unworthy takes when he has split and filed well, thesatisfaction high. The speed and ease of a short, sharp split,The tailor made width of the member soon to be scarf'd into a strip ramrodstraight,To with kitchen oven heat and temper right after roasting the Sundaychicken,The spline that fights not in the groove of the form and planes of asingular motion, But, that dread of something after the sale, the hope no broken rodreturnspuzzles the will,And makes us rather bear the ills of regular construction over the meritsof nodeless:Thus, glue failure makes cowards of us all.Arh nodal tear out, where is thy sting? Tony /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Mon Aug 20 15:50:16 2001 f7KKoGZ07261 Subject: Re: nodeless? And I had to go and open my maw before the big boys spoke! Well, what canyou expect from a math guy!Art ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: nodeless? Tony I was thinking in terms of the Pulitzer prize. Then I read it againRalph Sorry, but I do think it pertained to rod building!!! from dati@selway.umt.edu Mon Aug 20 16:20:35 2001 f7KLKYZ09060 Subject: cleaning ferrules Hi all, I have a ferrule question. I need to clean some ferrules on an oldsouthbend 323. The ferrules look to be nickel silver but in some spots itlooks like they are brass. The ferrules have a greenish white stuff onthem and I was just wondering what I could use to make them look goodagain. Any thoughts? Thanks so much, Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from dryfly@erols.com Mon Aug 20 19:04:28 2001 f7L04RZ14514 ([208.58.193.22] helo=homeserver) Subject: Re: nodeless? Bill As a new Morgan Handmill owner, I've been toying with the idea of nodelessquads, especially after hearing/reading about the need to have strips thatare very, very straight. Bill, I think it was you who mentioned thedifficulty of getting straight quad butt sections, especially over thebotton 18" of the butt. I think with nodeless there would a greater abilityto get straighter strips. Is there anyone currently doing both noded andnodeless quads on the Morgan Handmill that would like to share theirfindings/experiences? ThanksBob ----- Original Message ----- Subject: nodeless? All, Just for grins, I wonder if some of those who build nodeless rods couldexplain why they do that. I'll be the "devil's advocate" and proclaim, for openers, that nodelessrodsonly introduce potential problems for glue failures, while taking moretime aesthetics. Thus, the objective of building a nodeless rod seemspointless,other than that a builder might simply "feel like" building one.Certainly,there's nothing wrong wih that--I like challanges too--but is there anyother good reason to build nodeless? Personally, I have no axe to grind either way, but building nodeless doespuzzle me. cheers, Bill from jfreeman@cyberport.com Mon Aug 20 20:06:59 2001 f7L16wZ15881 mail.cyberport.com Subject: Re: Tung oil for spacers? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Do you use the paper after applying the varnish? Or just before =applying? Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 6:45 PMSubject: Re: Tung oil for spacers? Jim, I've used Tung Oil for reel seats when I started building years ago. =The oil give a pleasing finish that is easy to do. The trouble is some =folks like to dip their reel seats in the creek every time they turn =loose a fish. As Tung oil doesn't stop moisture, the reel seat insert =swells making reel removal tough.Last fall, in a day where I should have stayed in camp, we had rain, =snow, sleet and generally wet conditions [ the BWO's were on big time - =the cutthroats easy - but that's another story ] The rod I fished was =equipped with a reel seat that had been finished with Tung oil. The wood =swelled enough that the rod rode on the dash back to camp and even then, =I needed pliers to back off the reel seat locking screw. This was on one =of my own rods where I use the method of a coat of finish a day for a =week/ a coat a week for a month and a coat a month when fishing. into the wood without trouble. Spinning the wood @ 2000 or so and =hitting it with the back side of wet/dry paper thereby warming the wood =up while applying the varnish gives a great finish. Very little swelling =on these seats. regards, Don I don't recall seeing much discussion in the past about using tung =oil to finish wood spacers for reel seats, as opposed to rods. Is there =any reason it would not work well for this application? Other thoughts? ----------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at =http://explorer.msn.com Don, Do you use the paper after applying the= just before applying? Jim ----- Original Message ----- & Sandy Andersen Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 = PMSubject: Re: Tung oil for =spacers?Jim,I've used Tung Oil for reel seats when I = building years ago. The oil give a pleasing finish that is easy to do. = trouble is some folks like to dip their reel seats in the creek every = they turn loose a fish. As Tung oil doesn't stop moisture, the reel = insert swells making reel removal tough.Last fall, in a day where = have stayed in camp, we had rain, snow, sleet and generally wet = the BWO's were on big time - the cutthroats easy - but that's another = The rod I fished was equipped with a reel seat that had been finished = Tung oil. The wood swelled enough that the rod rode on the dash back = and even then, I needed pliers to back off the reel seat locking = was on one of my own rods where I use the method of a coat of finish a = a week/ a coat a week for a month and a coat a month when = past number of years, I've used ordinary varnish handrubbed into the = without trouble. Spinning the wood @ 2000 or so and hitting it with = side of wet/dry paper thereby warming the wood up while applying the = seats.regards,DonAt 06:44PM = I don't recall seeing much discussion in the past about = tung oil to finish wood spacers for reel seats, as opposed to rods. = thoughts?----------Get your FREE download of MSN = = from bh887@lafn.org Mon Aug 20 22:13:28 2001 f7L3DQZ18930 Subject: Re: nodeless? Is that why they called them Shakespeare Rods? Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: nodeless? To node, or not to node, that is the question:-Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the swellings and twists ofoutrageous nodes:Or to take hacksaw against this strip of troubles and by removing, binthem, to scarf and rest? No more and by a cut to say we end the heart ache and the thousandnaturalbends that bamboo is heir to - definitely an outcome to be aimed for.To cut, to glue, to bind maybe even whistle a little tune:- arh, andthere's the rub: When we have measur'd, mark'd and cut,When we have shuffled off wearily to bed,Must give us pause: There's the hassle of trusting glue so much, The owners of failed scarf'd rods? The pangs and pain of full length splits,The cause of wide glue lines, the grain has lifted,The savagery of file and heat gun, and the nasty little burns associated,To grunt and sweat, the oven is a bitch to make and still wont work,The patient merit the unworthy takes when he has split and filed well, thesatisfaction high. The speed and ease of a short, sharp split,The tailor made width of the member soon to be scarf'd into a strip ramrodstraight,To with kitchen oven heat and temper right after roasting the Sundaychicken,The spline that fights not in the groove of the form and planes of asingular motion, But, that dread of something after the sale, the hope no broken rodreturnspuzzles the will,And makes us rather bear the ills of regular construction over the meritsof nodeless:Thus, glue failure makes cowards of us all.> Arh nodal tear out, where isthy sting? Tony /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget thetrue Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi /**************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Aug 20 22:21:33 2001 f7L3LWZ19263 UAA21775 Subject: why nodeless? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Why nodeless? Well that is kind of like a hiker asking the mountain =climber "Why do you climb mountains, when you could take the trail like =everyone else?" I started building nodeless for a simple reason 1. In collecting =research for rod making I discovered more complaining, whining, belly =aching, and done right disdain for the NODE. 2. After making, buying and =Mickey mousing every contraption I needed, I simply did not want to =build the oven ala "Cattanach" or dump another $130+ dollars for a =variable temp gun. I have no preference when it comes to fishing the rod. I am building =rods here, not a religion. "Digger" built rods both methods and so will =I. I do have to say that building my first rod was a pleasure and took =somewhere between 45-60 hours to complete. from what I understand that=is fairly a short time for a first rod. I think part of the 100 hour rod =is node dilemmas. I do believe that not contending with the nodes =decreased my time. And no my first rod does not look like CRAP.Both maker Mike Shay and =restorationist Don Burns saw and casted the rod and gave me very nice = I think part of becoming a master rodsmith is to become familiar and =mastering the many aspects of cane rod building. Some makers buy parts =other make all parts. I one day want to be able to be a sole author of a =rod making all aspects even if it is just for a few rods ,Just for the =experience. So just throw the, why nodeless question? in the pile with these other =questions that concern: flaming, heat treating, sawing strip, splitting =strips, the hand mill or hand plane, glues, silk lines, hollow rods, =winding checks, uplocking down locking, finish, slow, fast, parabolic =and any other issue in the art of the cane maker. As it was state once in the planning from " Rodmakers are Insane" Best regards, Adam Vigil Why nodeless? Well that is kind of like = asking the mountain climber "Why do you climb mountains, when you could = trail like everyone else?" = complaining, whining, belly aching, and done right disdain for the NODE. = After making, buying and Mickey mousing every contraption I needed, I = not want to build the oven ala "Cattanach" or dump another $130+ dollars = variable temp gun. I have no preference when it comes to= rod. I am building rods here, not a religion. "Digger" built rods both = and so will I. I do have to say that building my first = pleasure and took somewhere between 45-60 hours to complete. from what I= nodes decreased my time. And no my first rod does not look like = maker Mike Shay and restorationist Don Burns saw and casted the rod and = I think part of becoming a master = become familiar and mastering the many aspects of cane rod building. = buy parts other make all parts. I one day want to be able to be a sole = a rod making all aspects even if it is just for a few rods ,Just for the = experience. So just throw the, why nodeless = pile with these other questions that concern: flaming, heat treating, = hollow rods, winding checks, uplocking down locking, finish, slow, fast, = parabolic and any other issue in the art of the cane maker. As it was state once in the planning = Rodmakers are Insane" Best regards, AdamVigil from jczimny@dol.net Mon Aug 20 22:25:16 2001 f7L3PFZ19507 Organization: J. C. Zimny Rod Company Subject: Re: nodeless? It's "Else what's a heaven for" Besides, I like nodes.John Z Art Port wrote: Without denigrating the work of earlier rhymers, I think we have theRodmakers' Poet Laureate for at least the first decade of the 21stcentury!(Plagiarism? What's plagiarism? Or what's a heaven for??)Art ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" from danny.twang@pd.no Tue Aug 21 02:01:01 2001 f7L70xZ23355 +0200 +0200 Subject: High carbon vs A2 blades This is a multi-part message in MIME format. In part of a trade, I got one Hock high carbon blade of the ol`black =type the other day. I`ve been using Hock A2 in my block plane, and have =been very happy with it. After I honed the "new" one my usually way, it =cut so much smoother.The A2 will certenly hold the edge much longer, but the HC is easier to =hone to a scary sharp edge.Anyone having the same experience? danny In part of a trade, I got one Hock high = blade of the ol`black type the other day. I`ve been using Hock = my usually way, it cut so much smoother.The A2 will certenly hold the edge much= the HC is easier to hone to a scary sharp edge.Anyone having the same =experience? danny from Canerods@aol.com Tue Aug 21 08:45:28 2001 f7LDjRZ27978 Subject: Re: cleaning ferrules Darin, Most likely you've got some plated brass ferrules. Try Mother's polish or Nevr-dull to polish up the ferrule without removing any remaining plating. both are available at auto parts store or auto dep'ts in Walmart etc. Don Burns Darin, Most likely you've got some plated brass ferrules. Try Mother's polishor Nevr-dull to polish up the ferrule without removing any remainingplating. both are available at auto parts store or auto dep'ts in Walmart etc. Don Burns from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Aug 21 11:01:54 2001 f7LG1sZ04284 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:02:20 -0400 2001 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:57:12 -0400 Subject: RE: nodeless? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Hear hear! Nodes are Beautiful! I can think of nothing prettier than aflamed rod with those lighter colored nodes bursting out at you in all theirsplendor. ...and yes I will continue to flame regardless of what anyone says about itseffect on cane... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: nodeless? It's "Else what's a heaven for" Besides, I like nodes.John Z Art Port wrote: Without denigrating the work of earlier rhymers, I think we have theRodmakers' Poet Laureate for at least the first decade of the 21stcentury!(Plagiarism? What's plagiarism? Or what's a heaven for??)Art ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" RE: nodeless? Hear hear! Nodes are Beautiful! I can think of =nothing prettier than a flamed rod with those lighter colored nodes =bursting out at you in all their splendor. ...and yes I will continue to flame regardless of =what anyone says about its effect on cane... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@=wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of J. C. ZimnySent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:20 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: nodeless? It's "Else what's a heaven for" Besides, I =like nodes.John Z Art Port wrote: =decade of the 21st century! heaven for??) from harms1@pa.net Tue Aug 21 11:45:31 2001 f7LGjUZ06617 Subject: Re: nodeless? John, Yeah, you get 'em, John! These minor barbarisms are really becoming quiteunforgiveable. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: nodeless? It's "Else what's a heaven for" Besides, I like nodes.John Z Art Port wrote: Without denigrating the work of earlier rhymers, I think we have theRodmakers' Poet Laureate for at least the first decade of the 21stcentury!(Plagiarism? What's plagiarism? Or what's a heaven for??)Art ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" from beadman@mac.com Tue Aug 21 12:08:55 2001 f7LH8sZ07840 Subject: Re: nodeless? Bill Harms made a fly rod of caneWith some wood forms and an old plane.He wrapped and he dipped,And when done, he quipped:It's pretty, but nodes are a pain! Claude At 12:43 PM -0400 on 8/21/01, WILLIAM HARMS wrote about Re: nodeless? John, Yeah, you get 'em, John! These minor barbarisms are really becoming quiteunforgiveable. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:19 PMSubject: Re: nodeless? It's "Else what's a heaven for" Besides, I like nodes.John Z Art Port wrote: Without denigrating the work of earlier rhymers, I think we have theRodmakers' Poet Laureate for at least the first decade of the 21stcentury!(Plagiarism? What's plagiarism? Or what's a heaven for??)Art ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Aug 21 14:35:30 2001 f7LJZUZ15506 PAA10673; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Mercury mini lathe? Anyone out there have experience with the Mercury mini lathe for turningcork and/or reel seats?Thanks in advance, dws. from bob@downandacross.com Tue Aug 21 15:39:09 2001 f7LKd8Z22392 Aug 2001 16:37:00 -0400 Subject: How to prove you are crazy Step One.Start making bamboo rods.Step Two.Make it into a small business.Step Three.Show your wife what $200 of cork looks like.Step FourTell her what a great deal you got on it. Thanks Martin Darrell and the guys who went in on that order. It was really helpful.Best regards, Bob from robertgkope@home.com Tue Aug 21 20:18:25 2001 f7M1IOZ11212 femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: oxidation woes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I just encountered a strange problem. I dipped the first coat of =polyurethane on a rod with oxidized ferrules about 3 weeks ago before =going on vacation. Two days ago I dipped the second coat, and just =unwrapped the female ferrule to dip the last coat. To my surprise the =oxidation seems to be half gone with a dull matte finish. Has anyone =encountered something like this before? The ferrule was oxidized with a weak solution of Kodak rapid fixer =applied just long enough to blacken the ferrule. The finish is Helmsman =Spar Urethane, and the ferrule was wrapped with Teflon pipe thread tape. =I figured that this would protect the ferrule without sticking and be =completely inert, but the ferrule now looks like old tarnished brass =instead of nickel silver, and there was no trace of the oxidation on the =tape. I suspect that somehow, some of the copper in the oxide coating on the =ferrule was reduced and plated out on surface of the ferrule resulting =in the yellow hue, but I don't know what could have caused this. -- Robert Kope dipped the first coat of polyurethane on a rod with oxidized ferrules = encountered something like this before? The ferrule was oxidized with a weak = finish is Helmsman Spar Urethane, and the ferrule was wrapped with = sticking and be completely inert, but the ferrule now looks like old = brass instead of nickel silver, and there was no trace of the oxidation = tape. = on surface of the ferrule resulting in the yellow hue, but I don't know = could have caused this. -- Robert =Kope from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Aug 21 20:36:51 2001 f7M1aoZ11952 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:36:45 -0700 to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: why nodeless? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Adam,If you are accounting 40 - 55 hours of extra time for nodes you are =doing something drastically wrong. At even half that. I contend that =between splicing and gluing (and clean up) it actually takes longer than =pressing. I make my rods in about the time you state, with nodes. I =realize that there is some whining regarding nodes. If you do it =Garrison style with alcohol lamp and your hands, the whining is =justified. I've done it that way, it sucks. But if you're heating and =pressing, it can't get any easier than that. If you are happy with nodeless, more power to ya. I can appreciate =either, I just prefer nodes. tom ausfeldrochester, ny I do have to say that building my first rod was a pleasure and took =somewhere between 45-60 hours to complete. from what I >understand that=is fairly a short time for a first rod. I think part of the 100 hour rod =is node dilemmas. I do believe that not >contending with the nodes =decreased my time. Adam,If you are accounting 40 - 55 hours of extra time = contend that between splicing and gluing (and clean up) it actually = and pressing, it can't get any easier than that. If you are happy with nodeless, more power to = appreciate either, I just prefer nodes. tom ausfeldrochester, ny rod was a pleasure and took somewhere between 45-60 hours to complete. = with the nodes decreased my time. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Aug 21 20:43:32 2001 f7M1hVZ12380 Subject: Re: nodeless? Math guy? Did you say a math guy, Art? Anyone who can cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is atolerable sub-human who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not makemesses in the house. -- Robert Heinlein M-D ;o) And I had to go and open my maw before the big boys spoke! Well, what canyou expect from a math guy!Art ----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph Moon" Cc: "WILLIAM HARMS" ; Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:23 PMSubject: Re: nodeless? Tony I was thinking in terms of the Pulitzer prize. Then I read it againRalph Sorry, but I do think it pertained to rod building!!! from jojo@ipa.net Tue Aug 21 20:48:31 2001 f7M1mVZ12664 Subject: Re: nodeless? I, too, like nodes. Nodes are our friends. M-D It's "Else what's a heaven for" Besides, I like nodes.John Z Art Port wrote: Without denigrating the work of earlier rhymers, I think we have theRodmakers' Poet Laureate for at least the first decade of the 21stcentury!(Plagiarism? What's plagiarism? Or what's a heaven for??)Art ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Aug 21 21:34:58 2001 f7M2YvZ13972 +0000 Subject: Varnish To the list:All of a sudden I have been having trouble with varnish causing very slightruns on my dipped rods which I can polish out. I am using Man O War sparvarnish, as I have in the past, and get these slight runs in the first 6" to8" of the rod (why just in this section I have no idea). I pull the rod fromthe varnish at about 4" to the minute. Is the varnish too thin or too thickand I even tried heating the tube on the last coat in order to thin it, tono avail. Maybe the pull speed is too fast. I will appreciate any help thatI can get on this one. Jack from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Aug 21 21:55:17 2001 f7M2tGZ14755 Subject: Re: Varnish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. JackTry this:When you get the rod down into the varnish,raise it up about a quarter of an inch and stop.Wait a about 3 mins., then proceed with bringing the rod out of the dip =tube slowly. This allows the varnish at the surface (which tends to be =thick) to run back down. It has something to do with surface tension.Give it a try.Tony Miller BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} JackTry this:When you get the rod down into the varnish,raise it up about a quarter of an inch and stop.Wait a about 3 mins., then proceed with bringing the rod out of the = tube slowly. This allows the varnish at the surface (which tends to be = run back down. It has something to do with surface tension.Give it a try.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from rodwrapp@swbell.net Tue Aug 21 22:14:53 2001 f7M3EqZ15638 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Varnish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I have 2 dip tube one poly and 1 Spar Marine Varnish,.. I thin my Varnishabout 60 percent varnish and 40 percent Mineral Spirits, when I dip I just pulleach section out at no set speed and I dont get any runs at all.. I dip twiceand finish comes out like glass.. I did notice on spar urethane you need canput on another coat in about 6 hours, If I remember right on urethane youare suppose to put on a coat in 8 hours, not a week later. I thew my cansaway so some of you guys need to read what the cane says..I dont see how you guys put on 4 coats of finish because if I put that manycoats on I would have 1 heavy rod.. Thanks Dave Marine Mineral Spirits, when I dip I just pull each section out at no set speed and I did notice on spar urethane you need can put on another coat in about 6 coat in guys need to read what the cane says.. coats of from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Aug 21 22:23:47 2001 f7M3NkZ16063 Subject: Re: oxidation woes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. RobertBlackening nickel silver is a real trick.If you use brass black it looks real nice but it doesn't last long.And if you use fixer it doesn't have as nice of a black color,but lasts alot longer. So its a catch 22 thing.Now if you coat it with something, it looks good but, this offers up a =whole newset of problems depending on how you finish the rod.and it can look real bad once the coating starts rubbing off.now also the amount or % of silver in the nickel silver can also make a =difference too. Just wait till you have a reel seat where the cap and = different stock and when you go to blue them they have two different =shades.I'd say your best bet is to use the fixer. Now I've heard of a =concoction of chemicals, that some use, that is supposed to work better = hard to get a hold of. I've been looking into electro plating and black =chrome finishes. I've done electro plating for machine shops and it is =fairly simple. But very, very toxic chemicals are used in the process. =Black chrome is used on guitar machine heads and tremolo bridges and is =very durable ,but it is probably beyondthe expense range of myself and probably the average rod maker.If any body has any knowledge of these techniques(or others) , I know =I'd be interested.Tony Miller BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} RobertBlackening nickel silver is a real trick.If you use brass black it looks real nice but it doesn't last =long.And if you use fixer it doesn't have as nice of a black =color,but lasts alot longer. So its a catch 22 thing.Now if you coat it with something, it looks good but, this offers = whole newset of problems depending on how you finish the rod.and it can look real bad once the coating starts rubbing off.now also the amount or % of silver in the nickel silver can also = difference too. Just wait till you have a reel seat where the cap and = are made out of different stock and when you go to blue them they have two = shades.I'd say your best bet is to use the fixer. Now I've heard of a = of chemicals, that some use, that is supposed to work better ,but I've = is black chrome finishes. I've done electro plating for machine shops and = Black chrome is used on guitar machine heads and tremolo bridges and is = durable ,but it is probably beyondthe expense range of myself and probably the average rod =maker.If any body has any knowledge of these techniques(or = know I'd be interested.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Aug 22 05:17:16 2001 f7MAHFZ21599 scanner-0.96 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4151. . Clean. Processed in 0.16506 secs);22 Aug 2001 10:16:00 -0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: oxidation woes --------------3FD74F00418DFA693CB38180 I oxidize the ferrules with Brass Black and cover with a coat oflaquer(just over the bluing). I then wrap the ferrule with householdplastic wrap and wrap with masking tape. I then dip the rod. I havenever had a problem doing this. Marty Robert Kope wrote: I just encountered a strange problem. I dipped the first coat ofpolyurethane on a rod with oxidized ferrules about 3 weeks ago beforegoing on vacation. Two days ago I dipped the second coat, and justunwrapped the female ferrule to dip the last coat. To my surprise theoxidation seems to be half gone with a dull matte finish. Has anyoneencountered something like this before? The ferrule was oxidized witha weak solution of Kodak rapid fixer applied just long enough toblacken the ferrule. The finish is Helmsman Spar Urethane, and theferrule was wrapped with Teflon pipe thread tape. I figured that thiswould protect the ferrule without sticking and be completely inert,but the ferrule now looks like old tarnished brass instead of nickelsilver, and there was no trace of the oxidation on the tape. I suspectthat somehow, some of the copper in the oxide coating on the ferrulewas reduced and plated out on surface of the ferrule resulting in theyellow hue, but I don't know what could have caused this. -- RobertKope --------------3FD74F00418DFA693CB38180 I oxidize the ferrules with Brass Black and cover with a coat of laquer(justover the bluing). I then wrap the ferrule with household plastic wrap andwrap with masking tape. I then dip the rod. I have never had a problemdoing this. MartyRobert Kope wrote: I polyurethaneon a rod with oxidized ferrules about 3 weeks ago before going on Two days ago I dipped the second coat, and just unwrapped the femaleferrule ferrulewas oxidized with a weak solution of Kodak rapid fixer applied just long that this would protect the ferrule without sticking and be completelyinert, but the ferrule now looks like old tarnished brass instead of nickelsilver, and there was no trace of the oxidation on the suspect that somehow, some of the copper in the oxide coating on theferrulewas reduced and plated out on surface of the ferrule resulting in the yellowhue, but I don't know what could have caused Robert Kope --------------3FD74F00418DFA693CB38180-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Aug 22 05:47:31 2001 f7MAlTZ22122 f7MAlHf86391; Subject: Re: oxidation woes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. If you are wrapping any of these various bits of a rod, I think it is a =really good idea to wrap initially with a thin wrap of that Teflon =plumbers' tape, and thencover it with whatever else takes your fancy. =The Teflon seems pretty inert and enables you to lift off whatever you =have wrapped over it with minimum trouble. I spin it on with an electric =drill, and it is an easy first step. The only significant trouble I have had with it is this - I also use it =to wrap up the cork grips after I have finished them[keeps them clean =through subsequent handling] and recently I let the wrapping get a bit =far down onto the cane at the front of the grip, and on dipping some of =my PU varnish got up over the check and made a very gluggy little bit of =goo that was hard to clean off. Easy to avoid, though - just be more =alert than I was and don't turn on the dipping motor with the =directional switch set to the wrong setting [lower instead of raise] =and it won't ever happen. Peter Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:14 PMSubject: Re: oxidation woes I oxidize the ferrules with Brass Black and cover with a coat of =laquer(just over the bluing). I then wrap the ferrule with household =plastic wrap and wrap with masking tape. I then dip the rod. I have = I just encountered a strange problem. I dipped the first coat of =polyurethane on a rod with oxidized ferrules about 3 weeks ago before =going on vacation. Two days ago I dipped the second coat, and just =unwrapped the female ferrule to dip the last coat. To my surprise the =oxidation seems to be half gone with a dull matte finish. Has anyone =encountered something like this before? The ferrule was oxidized with a =weak solution of Kodak rapid fixer applied just long enough to blacken =the ferrule. The finish is Helmsman Spar Urethane, and the ferrule was =wrapped with Teflon pipe thread tape. I figured that this would protect =the ferrule without sticking and be completely inert, but the ferrule =now looks like old tarnished brass instead of nickel silver, and there =was no trace of the oxidation on the tape. I suspect that somehow, some =of the copper in the oxide coating on the ferrule was reduced and plated =out on surface of the ferrule resulting in the yellow hue, but I don't =know what could have caused this. -- Robert Kope If you are wrapping any of these = rod, I think it is a really good idea to wrap initially with a thin wrap = Teflon plumbers' tape, and thencover it with whatever else takes your = wrapped over it with minimum trouble. I spin it on with an electric = it is an easy first step. The only significant trouble I have had = this - I also use it to wrap up the cork grips after I have finished = get a bit far down onto the cane at the front of the grip, and on = of my PU varnish got up over the check and made a very gluggy little bit = that was hard to clean off. Easy to avoid, though - just be more alert = was and don't turn on the dipping motor with the directional switch set = happen. Peter ----- Original Message ----- none = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, August 22, = PMSubject: Re: oxidation =woesI oxidize the ferrules with Brass Black and cover with = of laquer(just over the bluing). I then wrap the ferrule with = plastic wrap and wrap with masking tape. I then dip the rod. I have = I just encountered a strange = dipped the first coat of polyurethane on a rod with oxidized = coat, and just unwrapped the female ferrule to dip the last = oxidized with a weak solution of Kodak rapid fixer applied just long = would protect the ferrule without sticking and be completely inert, = ferrule now looks like old tarnished brass instead of nickel silver, = there was no trace of the oxidation on the = oxide coating on the ferrule was reduced and plated out on surface = ferrule resulting in the yellow hue, but I don't know what could = Kope from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Wed Aug 22 08:38:35 2001 f7MDcYZ25522 0000 Subject: Re: nodeless? Claude,Great little poem!!!!!!!!!!! Jim Christman Subject: Re: nodeless? Bill Harms made a fly rod of caneWith some wood forms and an old plane.He wrapped and he dipped,And when done, he quipped:It's pretty, but nodes are a pain! Claude At 12:43 PM -0400 on 8/21/01, WILLIAM HARMS wrote about Re:nodeless? John, Yeah, you get 'em, John! These minor barbarisms are really becomingquiteunforgiveable. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "J. C. Zimny" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:19 PMSubject: Re: nodeless? It's "Else what's a heaven for" Besides, I like nodes.John Z Art Port wrote: Without denigrating the work of earlier rhymers, I think we havetheRodmakers' Poet Laureate for at least the first decade of the 21stcentury!(Plagiarism? What's plagiarism? Or what's a heaven for??)Art ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" from mrmac@tcimet.net Wed Aug 22 10:24:02 2001 f7MFO1Z29894 IAA23332 (Win95; I) Subject: honing compound Hi, all - Question of the moment is how to use the green honing compound to finetune the edge on plane blades. After Miles' demo on sharpening duringGrayrock this year, one of the fellows there (didn't catch his name)mentioned to me that he used the same technique, but finished with anadditional step of using the green honing compound to get a trulyhair-shaving edge. So, now that I have some of this stuff (chromiumoxide honing compound), I now realize I wasn't paying quite close enoughattention on how you should go about using it. :-( It comes in a stick, sorta like a big crayon, and when I try to put itonto a flat particle board surface, as I thought I understood I shouldbe doing, it lumps and streaks, and doesn't seem "smooth" enough toachieve a precision edge. Am I going about this wrong? TIA - mac from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Aug 22 15:39:24 2001 f7MKdNZ15220 0400 Subject: Correction/oxidation woes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I thought nickel silver had silver in the content.I was wrong. Sorry for the mistake.So let me correct it by saying the % of non- ferrous metal that can be =oxidized innickel silver. Sorry guys I didn't mean to give out incorrect info.Thank you Tim for pointing my error out. :) So in the words of Billy =Madison" I'm going back to school ,back to school, to show my dad I'm not a =fool."LOLTony Miller BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I thought nickel silver had silver in the content.I was wrong. Sorry for the mistake. oxidized innickel silver. Sorry guys I didn't mean to give out incorrect =info.Thank you Tim for pointing my error out. :) So in the words of = Madison not a fool."LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 15:45:15 2001 f7MKjEZ15621 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:45:04 -0700 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:45:03 GMT Subject: Re: Mercury mini lathe? FILETIME=[51EF1890:01C12B4B] I use one to turn my RS fillers, works great. should work well to turn cork grips to with a chuck. Much better quality than some of the Asian cheapo imports. Love the DC motor, lots of torque even at low speeds.A.J. From: "David W. Smith, Ph.D." Subject: Mercury mini lathe?Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:35:03 -0400 Anyone out there have experience with the Mercury mini lathe for turningcork and/or reel seats?Thanks in advance, dws. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Wed Aug 22 15:50:42 2001 f7MKofZ16076 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:51:47 -0400 Subject: RE: Correction/oxidation woes This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Don't worry about it Tony how do you think I found out. YIPES THERE SILVERIN THEM THERE RODS! Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRodmaker -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 4:39 PM Subject: Correction/oxidation woes I thought nickel silver had silver in the content.I was wrong. Sorry for the mistake.So let me correct it by saying the % of non- ferrous metal that can beoxidized innickel silver. Sorry guys I didn't mean to give out incorrect info.Thank you Tim for pointing my error out. :) So in the words of BillyMadison" I'm going back to school ,back to school, to show my dad I'm not afool."LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Don't = it Tony how do you think I found out. YIPES THERE SILVER IN THEM THERE = Take care, Tim. Upstream Always,= Tim Doughty =Rodmaker MillerSent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 4:39 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: woesI thought nickel silver had silver in the content.I was wrong. Sorry for the mistake. be oxidized innickel silver. Sorry guys I didn't mean to give out incorrect =info.Thank you Tim for pointing my error out. :) So in the words of = Madison not a fool."LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Aug 22 18:02:58 2001 f7MN2uZ21517 Subject: Chris Raine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Chris,Give me a buzz back, My emails seem to end up in cyberland.Mike Chris,Give me a buzz back, My emails seem to= cyberland.Mike from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Aug 22 18:10:33 2001 f7MNAWZ21872 Subject: rod builder in Michigan I was told there was someone in South Haven Michigan who built rods, is this so and if so Who is it? I was told there was someone in South Haven Michigan who built rods,is this so and if so Who is it? from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Aug 22 20:05:00 2001 f7N14xZ24596 Subject: Bar-stock for Planing forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at Tom =Penrose's plans. He mention's an approximate cost of $17 for 12' of =3/4" cold-rolled steel keystock. I can't find this in my area (North =Carolina) for anything close to this price. I figure this'll weigh =approx. 25 lbs. so maybe shipping won't be prohibitive if I can find =this in the USA at something close to that price. Also, he mentions =EN1A "softer" steel on his website, which might save me from living with =a bastard file for several months. Is this product readily available at =a somewhat affordable price? I plan to make 6' forms so shorter pieces =won't do. Any help on sources of either material, prices, etc. is much =appreciated.Ed USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal = mentions EN1A "softer" steel on his website, which might save me from = appreciated.Ed from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Wed Aug 22 20:28:30 2001 f7N1STZ25263 f7N1PEjd003713;Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:25:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Ed, I just ordered my metal from onlinemetals at = financial interest, bla bla bla). They shipped my bars on Monday and it =should be here any day. If anyone wants me to give feedback on the =quality of the steel bars please let me know and I'll put up another =email when it comes it. Two bars are a little less than $50 shipped to =your door. I'm going to order my hardware from www.smallparts.com (no =financial interest). I sent for their free catalog and got a postcard =that will give me 15% off of my first order. I checked around at =several sources and found this to be the least expensive. I'm going to =order a vertical column for my sherline lathe and use it as my drill =press and then use it to mill a jig to hold a 3 square file to lay down =the 60 degree groove. Also, Grizzly (no financial interest) has their =2" clamps on sale to use for clamping. If anyone can give Ed and I some =more advise please do. Thanks, Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:05 PMSubject: Bar-stock for Planing forms USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at Tom =Penrose's plans. He mention's an approximate cost of $17 for 12' of =3/4" cold-rolled steel keystock. I can't find this in my area (North =Carolina) for anything close to this price. I figure this'll weigh =approx. 25 lbs. so maybe shipping won't be prohibitive if I can find =this in the USA at something close to that price. Also, he mentions =EN1A "softer" steel on his website, which might save me from living with =a bastard file for several months. Is this product readily available at =a somewhat affordable price? I plan to make 6' forms so shorter pieces =won't do. Any help on sources of either material, prices, etc. is much =appreciated.Ed Ed, I just ordered my metal from = on the quality of the steel bars please let me know and I'll put up = (no financial interest) has their 2" clamps on sale to use for = Thanks, Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX ----- Original Message ----- Riddle Sent: Wednesday, August 22, = PMSubject: Bar-stock for forms USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal = material, prices, etc. is much appreciated.Ed from cathcreek@hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 21:42:16 2001 f7N2gFZ27189 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:42:07 -0700 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:42:07 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms FILETIME=[33510A60:01C12B7D] I bought my keystock a few years back in Eugene, Oregon at a metal shop. I paid $40 for two 12 ft bars. Still have one of them lying around for when I get the time to make a second form for swelled butts. I would think most larger cities would have a place that carries this stuff, but I could be wrong. Tom's plans work well. You should do fine if you follow them. Robert ClarkeCatherine Creek Rodscathcreek@hotmail.comhttp://ccr_2.tripod.com/bamboo/index.html From: "Darrin Curtis" Subject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing formsDate: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:27:18 - 0500 Ed, I just ordered my metal from onlinemetals at http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7177&step=4 (nofinancial interest, bla bla bla). They shipped my bars on Monday and it should be here any day. If anyone wants me to give feedback on the quality of the steel bars please let me know and I'll put up another email when it comes it. Two bars are a little less than $50 shipped to your door. I'm going to order my hardware from www.smallparts.com (no financial interest). I sent for their free catalog and got a postcard that will give me 15% off of my first order. I checked around at several sources and found this to be the least expensive. I'm going to order a vertical column for my sherline lathe and use it as my drill press and then use it to mill a jig to hold a 3 square file to lay down the 60 degree groove. Also, Grizzly (no financial interest) has their 2" clamps on sale to use for clamping. If anyone can give Ed and I some more advise please do. Thanks, Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX----- Original Message -----From: Ed Riddle Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:05 PMSubject: Bar-stock for Planing forms USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at Tom Penrose's plans. He mention's an approximate cost of $17 for 12' of 3/4" cold-rolled steel keystock. I can't find this in my area (North Carolina) so maybe shipping won't be prohibitive if I can find this in the USA at something close to that price. Also, he mentions EN1A "softer" steel on his website, which might save me from living with a bastard file for several months. Is this product readily available at a somewhat affordable price? I plan to make 6' forms so shorter pieces won't do. Any help on sources of either material, prices, etc. is much appreciated.Ed _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from dickay@alltel.net Wed Aug 22 21:46:22 2001 f7N2kLZ27453 srv.alltel.net Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:46:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Ed, Look at the ads in your Yellow Pages under "Metal Distributors" for =a full line steel service center. Or look in the yellow pages for the =closest large city. You should find a source there. Some of this stuff =won't be found at the local hardware store, you have to look to =industrial supply houses. Sometimes you have to do some fast talking to =get them to listen to you. If you work for a large company, they might =write it up as a cash sale to that company. This particularly works for =branch offices of large supply houses.Dick Fuhrman Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:27 PMSubject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms Ed, I just ordered my metal from onlinemetals at = financial interest, bla bla bla). They shipped my bars on Monday and it =should be here any day. If anyone wants me to give feedback on the =quality of the steel bars please let me know and I'll put up another =email when it comes it. Two bars are a little less than $50 shipped to =your door. I'm going to order my hardware from www.smallparts.com (no =financial interest). I sent for their free catalog and got a postcard =that will give me 15% off of my first order. I checked around at =several sources and found this to be the least expensive. I'm going to =order a vertical column for my sherline lathe and use it as my drill =press and then use it to mill a jig to hold a 3 square file to lay down =the 60 degree groove. Also, Grizzly (no financial interest) has their =2" clamps on sale to use for clamping. If anyone can give Ed and I some =more advise please do. Thanks, Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:05 PMSubject: Bar-stock for Planing forms USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at Tom =Penrose's plans. He mention's an approximate cost of $17 for 12' of =3/4" cold-rolled steel keystock. I can't find this in my area (North =Carolina) for anything close to this price. I figure this'll weigh =approx. 25 lbs. so maybe shipping won't be prohibitive if I can find =this in the USA at something close to that price. Also, he mentions =EN1A "softer" steel on his website, which might save me from living with =a bastard file for several months. Is this product readily available at =a somewhat affordable price? I plan to make 6' forms so shorter pieces =won't do. Any help on sources of either material, prices, etc. is much =appreciated.Ed = Some of this stuff won't be found at the local hardware store, you have = branch offices of large supply houses.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Curtis =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, August 22, = PMSubject: Re: Bar-stock for = forms Ed, I just ordered my metal from = feedback on the quality of the steel bars please let me know and I'll = column for my sherline lathe and use it as my drill press and then use = mill a jig to hold a 3 square file to lay down the 60 degree = Also, Grizzly (no financial interest) has their 2" clamps on sale to = Thanks, Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX ----- Original Message ----- Riddle Sent: Wednesday, August 22, = PMSubject: Bar-stock for = forms USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal = won't be prohibitive if I can find this in the USA at something = appreciated.Ed from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Aug 22 22:10:52 2001 f7N3ApZ28190 (216.160.237.128) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509Subject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3081359424_136040 Ed, I had a tough time finding the bars as well until I checked with a couple o=fmachinists. It seems that this kind of metal is standard stock in mostmachine shops and I didn=B9t have to ask twice to get them to sell me thebars. They cost me $24 and they cut them to size as well. However,don=B9tbelieve them if you ask them if they need to be filed flat. They bothwhipped out some tiny German steel =B3precision=B2 square to show mehow truethey are, but guess what? I still had to spend about three hours filing! I=B9m not sure what EN1A steel is, but I heard about =B3hot=B2 rolled steelaswell as =B3cold=B2 rolled steel. It is apparently softer, but the twomachinists that I spoke with didn=B9t have the stuff. Anyway, check the yellow pages for machine shops. I=B9ll be one will havewhat you need. Jason On 8/22/01 7:05 PM, "Ed Riddle" wrote: USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at TomPenro=se'splans. He mention's an approximate cost of $17 for 12' of 3/4" cold-roll=edsteel keystock. I can't find this in my area (North Carolina) for anythi=ngclose to this price. I figure this'll weigh approx. 25 lbs. so maybe shi=ppingwon't be prohibitive if I can find this in the USA at something close to =thatprice. Also, he mentions EN1A "softer" steel on his website, which might=saveme from living with a bastard file for several months. Is this productreadily available at a somewhat affordable price? I plan to make 6' form=s soshorter pieces won't do. Any help on sources of either material, prices,=etc.is much appreciated.Ed --B_3081359424_136040 Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms Ed, I had a tough time finding the bars as well until I checked with a couple o= mo=st machine shops and I didn’t have to ask twice to get them to sellme= owever, don’t believe them if you ask them if they need to be filedfl= “precision̶= to=spend about three hours filing! I’m not sure what EN1A steel is, but I heard about“hot” = tly softer, but the two machinists that I spoke with didn’t have thes=tuff. w=ill have what you need. Jason On 8/22/01 7:05 PM, "Ed Riddle" rote: USAfolks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at TomPenrose= 3/4"= 25 lbs. so maybe shipping won't be prohibitive if I can find this in the USA= "softer=" steel on his website, which might save me from living with a bastard = d= iated.Ed --B_3081359424_136040-- from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Aug 22 22:16:30 2001 f7N3GTZ28509 (216.160.237.128) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509Subject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3081359757_156091 Ed, One last thing. I did find that the smaller, one man shops full of tools(ie, not CNC outfits) were more open to conversation. The bigger operationswith large contracts and stuff may not be as helpful or open about theirmaterial. The guy I finally got the metal from actually told me how much itcost him (something like $1.20 per pound) and let me negotiate the price! Anyway, take it for what it is worth. You may not need to go as far as afull service industrial metal place to get what you need. Jason On 8/22/01 7:05 PM, "Ed Riddle" wrote: USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at TomPenrose'splans. He mention's an approximate cost of $17 for 12' of 3/4" cold-rolledsteel keystock. I can't find this in my area (North Carolina) for anythingclose to this price. I figure this'll weigh approx. 25 lbs. so maybe shippingwon't be prohibitive if I can find this in the USA at something close to thatprice. Also, he mentions EN1A "softer" steel on his website, which mightsaveme from living with a bastard file for several months. Is this productreadily available at a somewhat affordable price? I plan to make 6' formssoshorter pieces won't do. Any help on sources of either material, prices,etc.is much appreciated.Ed --B_3081359757_156091 Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms Ed, o=perations with large contracts and stuff may not be as helpful or openabout= how much it cost him (something like $1.20 per pound) and let me negotiate=the price! s a full service industrial metal place to get what you need. Jason On 8/22/01 7:05 PM, "Ed Riddle" rote: USAfolks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at TomPenrose= 3/4"= 25 lbs. so maybe shipping won't be prohibitive if I can find this in the USA= "softer=" steel on his website, which might save me from living with a bastard = d= iated.Ed --B_3081359757_156091-- from homes-sold@home.com Thu Aug 23 11:46:25 2001 f7NGkOZ22410 femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: Test This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Test Test from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Aug 23 14:39:53 2001 f7NJdqZ01223 Subject: test Is the list really this slow?-- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from bob@downandacross.com Thu Aug 23 14:45:56 2001 f7NJjtZ01771 Subject: Re: test y e s At 03:36 PM 8/23/2001 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:Is the list really this slow?--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Aug 23 14:51:49 2001 f7NJplZ02274 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:51:39 +0100 Subject: Re: test It is at this end ? Downandacross Rod Company wrote: y e s At 03:36 PM 8/23/2001 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote:Is the list really this slow?--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Aug 23 15:13:06 2001 f7NKD6Z03728 scanner-0.96 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4151. . Clean. Processed in 0.191873secs); 23 Aug 2001 20:11:06 -0000 0000 Subject: for Richard H Burger Dick, I lost your email address but would like to thank you for the FolkArt Brown Trout I received today. It will look good hanging over thebench. I can't get over the amount of "classy" people that are on thislist! Thanks again, Marty from CALucker@aol.com Thu Aug 23 15:35:32 2001 f7NKZVZ04905 Subject: Really really slow, so Why do mice have small balls? Because so few of them can dance. Why do mice have smallballs? Because so few of them can dance. from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Aug 23 15:47:27 2001 f7NKlQZ05741 NAA29788 Subject: Best tips? Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Aug 23 15:57:41 2001 f7NKveZ06382 Subject: RE: Best tips? As a newbie myself, I have to admit that I failed to take to heart numbers2, 4 and 6. I would add: 7. Check your angles and your dimensions constantly. It's easy to justkeep planing away, but you need to stop and check all the time. 8. Sit down and check, then doublecheck your math and your procedures,thenwrite EVERYTHING down so you know what you've done and what you aredoing.This will avoid mistakes like setting your forms to d instead of d/2, orturning your strips in the oven at 15 minutes rather than 7.5 (strips cookedat 375 for 30 minutes are definitely not "blonde" :-)) . How come nooneever recommended I keep a little notebook with all the important notes foreach rod? 9. Slow down! There is no need to finish in a hurry, you do NOT reallyneed that rod for that upcoming trip to wherever, and if you hurry you won'thave a new rod to fish anyway. 10. ASK ASK ASK. The folks on this list have always reassured me thatthere are no stupid questions. -----Original Message----- Subject: Best tips? Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac from jmpio@nhbm.com Thu Aug 23 16:06:21 2001 f7NL6KZ07152 Subject: Books A while back someone suggested that one could successfully ask their libraryto purchase the books one wanted. Being unable to afford a copy of WayneCattanach's book, I e-mailed my librarian, explained that the local library(Boise, Idaho) had a wonderful collection relating to flyfishing, but thatthe rodmaking section was woefully inadequate. Further, I explained, WayneCattanach's book was the premier title on the subject (I already haveGarrison, and I didn't even mention that other material that people makerods out of), and would be an excellent addition to their collection. A daylater I got a phone call from the library, they said they had ordered thebook, asked if I would like them to hold it for me when it was received, andthen THANKED ME for making the suggestion, and encouraged me to provideother titles they could acquire (that's right THEY THANKED ME). Just pickedup the book last night, and until at least September 18 (longer if I renewwhich I can do over the telephone) I am in possession of a brand new copy.I intend to send a thank you email, along with several other suggestions.Would anyone care to suggest other additions to my local library? Pleaseprovide correct spelling of author's name, and correct book titles,otherwise the librarian can have a hard time finding them. I wouldrecommend that all of you who can't afford your own libraries attempt thismethod with the public one. James M. Piotrowski from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Aug 23 16:17:26 2001 f7NLHPZ07810 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: Bar-stock for Planing forms If I remember correctly, EN1A is a free machining steel (meaning that it hasa considerable lead content). This makes it easy to turn on a lathe atalmost any rpm and feed rate, even without cutting oil. Because it is sosoft, it would also be easy to handwork, like with a file. Downside is thatit would also plane very easily.... Due to environmental and healthconsiderations, I don't see it much anymore..... TAM-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bar-stock for Planing forms Ed, I had a tough time finding the bars as well until I checked with a couple ofmachinists. It seems that this kind of metal is standard stock in mostmachine shops and I didn't have to ask twice to get them to sell me thebars. They cost me $24 and they cut them to size as well. However, don'tbelieve them if you ask them if they need to be filed flat. They bothwhipped out some tiny German steel "precision" square to show me how truethey are, but guess what? I still had to spend about three hours filing! I'm not sure what EN1A steel is, but I heard about "hot" rolled steel aswell as "cold" rolled steel. It is apparently softer, but the twomachinists that I spoke with didn't have the stuff. Anyway, check the yellow pages for machine shops. I'll be one will havewhat you need. Jason On 8/22/01 7:05 PM, "Ed Riddle" wrote: USA folks:I'm interested in making a metal planing form and am looking at TomPenrose's plans. He mention's an approximate cost of $17 for 12' of 3/4"cold-rolled steel keystock. I can't find this in my area (North Carolina) maybe shipping won't be prohibitive if I can find this in the USA atsomething close to that price. Also, he mentions EN1A "softer" steel on hiswebsite, which might save me from living with a bastard file for severalmonths. Is this product readily available at a somewhat affordable price?I plan to make 6' forms so shorter pieces won't do. Any help on sources ofeither material, prices, etc. is much appreciated.Ed from anglport@con2.com Thu Aug 23 17:06:49 2001 f7NM6mZ10216 Subject: Re: Best tips? Hi!As long as it IS slow, let me ask if anyone's heard of Jax Iron, Steeland Nickel Blackener. I'm reading Gierach's new book on flies and he has apattern in there using blackened bead-chain eyes. He mentions that he usesthat particular blackener because it's what Mike Clark uses on his ferrules.Thought I'd pass that tidbit along to "the crew" and inquire as to itsavailability.Art from bamboorods@saber.net Thu Aug 23 17:34:01 2001 f7NMY0Z11749 Subject: Para 17 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Has anyone had any recent experience casting the Para 17? What are your =thoughts and opinions.TIAChris Raine Has anyone had any recentexperience = TIAChris =Raine from tfbinn@mindspring.com Thu Aug 23 17:40:06 2001 f7NMe5Z12196 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Best tips? I'd certainly agree with all the tips already offered but would add;Re-check form settings twice before starting final planing.Take as much time as necessary (if you're not building nodeless) to getnodal areas perfectly flat, and re-check every strip before starting toplane.The more time invested in straightening strips, including taking twists out,is really worth it.Winston Binney from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Aug 23 17:52:26 2001 f7NMqPZ12772 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Para 17 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. it's big, and powerful, and heavy. a very nice rod, though tiring to cast lighter, also a semi-parabolic action rod, if you're interested). chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: Para 17 Has anyone had any recent experience casting the Para 17? What are yourthoughts and opinions.TIAChris Raine it's long (i have the taper for a very nice 8 foot 8 weight that is much lighter, also a semi-parabolic action rod, if you'reinterested). chris. -----Original Message-----From: Chris Raine 2001 3:27 17Has anyone had any recent experiencecasting TIAChris Raine from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Thu Aug 23 17:59:14 2001 f7NMxDZ13286 Subject: Re: Para 17 Chris, I made Para17 by Wayne Cattnach's taper in list archive.I expected 7wt. line but feels #8 or #9. Someone says even #10.I am loading #8 usually.It is really parabolic and cast #8 line very nicely. Max Has anyone had any recent experience casting the Para 17? What are yourthoughts and opinions.TIAChris Raine from bob@downandacross.com Thu Aug 23 18:09:34 2001 f7NN9XZ13815 Subject: Re: Best tips? Good topic, Mac.How about these...Make your strips 5" longer at the tip ends, and your binder induced twists will be in the part you cut off. ( from Tom Morgan).It's a fishing rod.Use a respirator or dust mask as much as you can bear too.Never walk away from a lit alcohol lamp or a running power tool.Send some guys free stuff and they will send you free stuff back.Make friends with good builders and keep your ears open.Best regards, Bob At 04:46 PM 8/23/2001 -0400, Ralph MacKenzie wrote:Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Aug 23 18:26:28 2001 f7NNQRZ14448 f7NNQDA07339 Subject: Hock 1 3/8" wide plane blade If anyone starting out needs a plane blade, or anyone else who might beable to use it, I have one that I cannot use. It's brand new and it'syour's for the asking price of $0.00. Please, only accept it if you haveuse for it. Contact me off-list, of course. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Thu Aug 23 18:33:40 2001 f7NNXeZ14927 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:33:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Best tips? I'll agree with what has been said so far and add: Don't flame your first rod. Flaming does a great job of covering upmistakes but you want to see them when you're done otherwise you don'tknowwhat needs improvement. It is also messy when you're sanding and you haveno idea when you've removed the enamel and started to remove fibers. Make a rod with one tip. Why waste bamboo on a second tip. from the looksof it, I think my first rod will cast around corners very easily. One tip I would have been happier saving the cane in one of those tips for a second,straighter, rod. The first rod is meant to teach you about your tools and your process. Togive you first hand knowledge about what you have learned. You can applywhat you have learned on your second and without knowing your limits andthelimits of your tools you can't figure out what needs to be done better. My 2 centsTim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Best tips? Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Aug 23 19:00:30 2001 f7O00TZ16095 f7O00TA25357 Subject: Hock 1 3/8" wide plane blade Folks, the Hock blade I had listed has been accepted. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Aug 23 20:06:18 2001 f7O16IZ17745 (25307); Subject: Re: Best tips? In a message dated 08/23/2001 6:07:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anglport@con2.com writes: Art,You can get Jax products from Sheffield's Knifemakers supply in Fla. phone number 904-775-6453 Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Aug 23 20:10:49 2001 f7O1AmZ18091 Subject: Re: Best tips? Rex: What is means is that to calibrate your depth gauge, instead ofsetting it down on a flat surface and setting the dial to read "zero",open the jaws of your dial caliper to .1155". Then, rest the depthgauge on the open jaws with the 60* tip in the open jaws, as if it werebeing set into the groove on your planing form. Now set your depthgauge to read .100" and it is properly calibrated since the geometry issuch that a .100" deep V groove is .1155" wide across the top. Nearly always, the tip on the 60* point gets micro-smushed, and when youset it for "zero", it really should be .002" or something like that. Bycalibrating on the sides of the tip, you avoid that problem. Don't know who came up with this originally, it's back in the archivessomewhere and I found it very handy. Hope it helps ya. mac Rex Tutor wrote: I am on rod #3.I don't get your comment on Depth gagecalibration. Could youelaborate on " Set your calipers to .1155" openand the 60* pointwill fit just right such that dial should read.100"." from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Aug 23 20:18:11 2001 f7O1IAZ18479 Subject: Re: Best tips? Thought of one I should have added the first time - it REALLY has helpedme on the last two rods: Put blocks under your planing form to elevate it off the work surface soyou can reach under it. It really helps in holding strips in place, ingeneral cleanup, and in comfort. I don't bother with finger cots now. I can hold the strips easily withjust my thumb this way, kinda like a guitar player. mac from channer@frontier.net Thu Aug 23 20:36:33 2001 f7O1aWZ18962 Subject: Re: Best tips? The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. First pressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinner tipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and press whileyou heat the next node. This was from Paul Whitely quite some time ago.Nodes drove me nuts until I tried this method, it always worked out thatwhatever bends and kinks I got out the first heating came right backwhen I tried to get the other direction straightened out. I use a 7"wodworkers face vise to straighten nodes and I crank down on them withall I've got, only the most cantankerous of nodes won't yield to thismethod.John Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Thu Aug 23 20:58:04 2001 f7O1w3Z19739 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:57:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Best tips? Ralph, I've tried this method of calibrating my depth gauge. In some instances Ihave found that I have not held the base of the depth gauge flat against thejaws of the caliper. If they're not then you will not get an accuratereading every time. What I have done is took a piece of O2 tool steel I had and flattened thetop of the steel like you would flatten the sole of a plane using sandpaperand plate glass. I then reamed a 1/8 inch dia. hole in the steel so I wasreasonably sure I had a 1/8 inch hole. Setting the point in the hole youshould read .10825 inch on the depth gauge. Since my gauge reads to thenearest .0005 then I'm happy with either .108 or .1085. I then compared that using a caliper set at 1/8 and wasn't getting the samereading until I realized that the base wasn't flat against the jaws. Your method works and is simple but if you're not careful can beinaccurate. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? Rex: What is means is that to calibrate your depth gauge, instead ofsetting it down on a flat surface and setting the dial to read "zero",open the jaws of your dial caliper to .1155". Then, rest the depthgauge on the open jaws with the 60* tip in the open jaws, as if it werebeing set into the groove on your planing form. Now set your depthgauge to read .100" and it is properly calibrated since the geometry issuch that a .100" deep V groove is .1155" wide across the top. Nearly always, the tip on the 60* point gets micro-smushed, and when youset it for "zero", it really should be .002" or something like that. Bycalibrating on the sides of the tip, you avoid that problem. Don't know who came up with this originally, it's back in the archivessomewhere and I found it very handy. Hope it helps ya. mac Rex Tutor wrote: I am on rod #3.I don't get your comment on Depth gagecalibration. Could youelaborate on " Set your calipers to .1155" openand the 60* pointwill fit just right such that dial should read.100"." from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Aug 23 20:58:27 2001 f7O1wQZ19799 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:51:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Best tips? Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul for bringing it tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heating theentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- or somethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pith to providerelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that would facilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather than compressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compress thehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. First pressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinner tipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and press whileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Thu Aug 23 21:03:08 2001 f7O238Z20246 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:02:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Best tips? Ralph, How many blocks do you use? Do you find that your form has a tendency todeflect in the center as you plane? If it does deflect does that causeproblems? My guess is that you would have to support it more than just atthe ends. Maybe every 12 to 15 inches. Tim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? Thought of one I should have added the first time - it REALLY has helpedme on the last two rods: Put blocks under your planing form to elevate it off the work surface soyou can reach under it. It really helps in holding strips in place, ingeneral cleanup, and in comfort. I don't bother with finger cots now. I can hold the strips easily withjust my thumb this way, kinda like a guitar player. mac from lblan@provide.net Thu Aug 23 21:54:53 2001 f7O2sqZ22111 Subject: RE: Best tips? The original post was courtesy of Chris Bogart. I'm sure he was using thecalipers to measure all of the nodes in his infamous "box of nodes" when hehad this epiphany! Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Best tips? Rex: What is means is that to calibrate your depth gauge, instead ofsetting it down on a flat surface and setting the dial to read "zero",open the jaws of your dial caliper to .1155". Then, rest the depthgauge on the open jaws with the 60* tip in the open jaws, as if it werebeing set into the groove on your planing form. Now set your depthgauge to read .100" and it is properly calibrated since the geometry issuch that a .100" deep V groove is .1155" wide across the top. Nearly always, the tip on the 60* point gets micro-smushed, and when youset it for "zero", it really should be .002" or something like that. Bycalibrating on the sides of the tip, you avoid that problem. Don't know who came up with this originally, it's back in the archivessomewhere and I found it very handy. Hope it helps ya. mac Rex Tutor wrote: I am on rod #3.I don't get your comment on Depth gagecalibration. Could youelaborate on " Set your calipers to .1155" openand the 60* pointwill fit just right such that dial should read.100"." from channer@frontier.net Thu Aug 23 22:39:14 2001 f7O3dDZ23463 Subject: Re: Best tips? Harry;I guess I should have mentioned that part. I made a jig for my drillpress that has pices of wood that comes to a point right in front of asanding drum, I can set the distance whatever I choose between the pointand the sanding drum,. I run all my strips thru this with the pith sideto the drum, it makes them a uniform thickness from end to end,regardless of any bumps or bends, then I heat and straighten. When Iclamp down, the strip has no choice but to be straight. It also savessome planing effort, as I thickness my strips to about .20 over thethickest dimension of the finshed strip. It takes me about 20 minutes tothickness 18 strips and i think it saves me about 3 hours ofaggravation.John Harry Boyd wrote: Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul for bringing it tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heating theentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- orsomethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pith toproviderelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that wouldfacilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather than compressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compress thehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. First pressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinner tipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and press whileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from mrmac@tcimet.net Thu Aug 23 23:26:19 2001 f7O4QIZ24675 Subject: Re: Best tips? I use one block under each end of the form. I have not noticed significantdeflection, but I haven't put a dial indicator on the middle looking for it,either. Steel is pretty strong stuff! Even if it did deflect a thou or two(and that's about all it would be doing, if anything), the groove would seem tome to still be "on dimension". It really does make handling the strips a wholelot easier for me, and I can keep stuff handy right under the form. My"bench"is a 2x6 with a 1x2 on each edge creating a small lip, so I don't have a lot ofextra space for stuff. Gotta have STUFF! best to everybody - mac Tim Wilhelm wrote: Ralph, How many blocks do you use? Do you find that your form has a tendencytodeflect in the center as you plane? If it does deflect does that causeproblems? My guess is that you would have to support it more than justatthe ends. Maybe every 12 to 15 inches. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Aug 23 23:34:56 2001 f7O4YuZ24988 f7O4Ytq112280 Subject: Re: Para 17 Organization: Prodigy Internet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Chris,You might say that I have recent experience, I just came in from gluing =the remake of the butt section of a para 17. The previous butt section =didn't stand up very well when I was turning the ferrule station in my =lathe. Due to some undetectable flaw of Paul Young's design ( not any of =my fault, since my technique is always flawless,) the section blew in =half where it came out of the tailstock. The two ends remind me of =porcupines looking at each other. When I cast them across the shop, they =seemed to cast pretty well, bouncing off three walls. I could probably =cast this section at least a hundred yards. My lab should enjoy this, =since it would be a treat for him to get to retrieve such a high quality =stick. I can tell you my thoughts if you can tolerate profanity, but not =my opinions because, as we all know, rodmakers are not opinionated.Steve Has anyone had any recent experience casting the Para 17? What are =your thoughts and opinions.TIAChris Raine Chris,You might say that I have recent experience, I just came in from = remake of the butt section of a para 17. The previous butt section = up very well when I was turning the ferrule station in my lathe. Due to = technique is always flawless,) the section blew in half where it came = tailstock. The two ends remind me of porcupines looking at each other. = cast them across the shop, they seemed to cast pretty well, bouncing off = walls. I could probably cast this section at least a hundred yards. My = should enjoy this, since it would be a treat for him to get to retrieve = high quality stick. I can tell you my thoughts if you can tolerate = opinionated.Steve Has anyone had any recent = TIA Raine from homes-sold@home.com Fri Aug 24 00:12:03 2001 f7O5C2Z26007 femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:11:53 -0700 Subject: Re: Best tips? Want to find the width of a flat? .578D = width I have a 12" Portable Power Plane. Running the strips pith side up makesthem all the same thickness. Make a light weight wood adjustable starter angle form, 30*-52*, on one sideand 60* on the other side. Run it and the strips through the Power Plane.Best power feed beveler I've ever used! It would be nice if we had all of these tips in one place for the future.How we do that? Best to all.Don ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Best tips? Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion from saweiss@flash.net Fri Aug 24 00:16:45 2001 f7O5GiZ26260 f7O5Giq161918 Subject: Para 17 Organization: Prodigy Internet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Anyone have the guide spacing for the Para 17?Steve Anyone have the guide spacing for the Para 17?Steve from utzerath@execpc.com Fri Aug 24 05:53:37 2001 f7OAraZ29687 f7OAtU077678; f7OAraX77202; Subject: Re: Best tips? Here's a way I found makes node pressing (vise method) go twice as fast.Make a horizontal rack about about 10" wide about 48" wide along the edge ofyour bench. Lay your heat gun in the center of your bench. You can bepre-heating the strips at their next crooked node at various distances fromthe heat (The next strip you'll do is closest to the gun). Benefits are:You don't have to wait to heat the next strip. The cane is heatedcompletely through. You tend to keep track of the next node to do one eachstrip so you don't find the one you missed after you put everything away. Jim U from harms1@pa.net Fri Aug 24 07:11:12 2001 f7OCB6Z00671 Subject: Re: Best tips? All, Much of the "stress" of straightening nodes might be relieved if you: 1)reduce the dimensions of your strips as much as possible before heatstraightening: 2) realize that straightening nodes should not be thought ofas a "once and done" task--repeated heating while the dimensions are stilllarge can damage a node unnecessarily; 3) even the most troublesomenodescan be straightened quickly and effortlessly after the planing isunderway--all the way up until the final .020" Do not use a vice to press nodes, as vices cannot recognize plasticity, orhow much pressure may be "too much." Learn to work with your hands. Theyare capable of learning what a vice cannot. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Best tips? Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac from dickay@alltel.net Fri Aug 24 07:18:50 2001 f7OCInZ00976 srv.alltel.net Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:18:48 -0500 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Best tips? ----- Original Message ----- It would be nice if we had all of these tips in one place for the future.How we do that? Don and All: I copy them to the Word Processor on my computer. I havefiles set up with various headings for things like tools, finish, etc. Youget the idea. My wife and kids claim I am filling up my hard drive withdrivel. I tell them HOGWASH! I am trying to learn how to use my CD-RW sothat I can save it all to CD-ROM so that they don't delete it.Dick Fuhrman from mgjanik@yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 08:25:13 2001 f7ODPCZ02777 2001 06:24:52 PDT Subject: Beginner rodmakers: Equipment for sale! 998659492=:48556" --0-1261563406-998659492=:48556 I have a small list of rodmaking equipment, including a set of planing forms ---------------------------------Do You Yahoo!?Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger.--0-1261563406- 998659492=:48556 I have a small list of rodmaking equipment, including a set of planing Make international calls for aslow as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger.-- 0-1261563406-998659492=:48556-- from bamboo@pa.net Fri Aug 24 09:49:54 2001 f7OEnmZ06721 Subject: Granger Tapers This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Does anyone have any Granger tapers they would like to share. I am =getting strips prepped for some longer three piece rods and would =appreciate any numbers that you can share.Thanks,Bill Taylor Does anyone have any Granger tapers = would appreciate any numbers that you can share.Thanks,Bill Taylor from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Aug 24 09:59:36 2001 f7OExZZ07418 f7OExZN23488 Subject: Re: Best tips? I don't bother with the inner nodes at all. Don't even knock them out aftersplitting in half. Forgot to do it once and I did not have any problem splittingthe strips. After the strips are split. On a small bandsaw, I saw out a shallow1/2 moon on the pith side removing the whole inner node. This gives me therelief Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul for bringing it tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heating theentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- orsomethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pith toproviderelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that wouldfacilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather than compressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compress thehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. First pressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinner tipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and press whileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods> http://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Aug 24 10:05:45 2001 f7OF5iZ08013 +0000 Subject: Varnish My thanks to all who had suggestions regarding the cause of runs fromdipping my rods. I shall try the suggestions, not all at one time, and seeif I can eliminate the problem.Thanks again to you all. Jack from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Aug 24 11:03:28 2001 f7OG3SZ11063 Subject: Re: Best tips? Someone asked for it, so here is the start. Go tohttp://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ I've started to build a web site now, but next week I'll be adding more. Any suggestions, comments, ectwould be appreciated. One thing that I see already is that I have tochange the color of the text. Trust me, don't try to print the pagesyet. I'll get to it, I'm just going out of town and have to getscooting. I'll pick up your emails Monday. Have a great weekend! Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from captvonbek@earthlink.net Fri Aug 24 11:07:01 2001 f7OG71Z11428 f7OG6ub02160 Subject: Hock blade gone Hi everyone. The Hock 1 3/8" blade had been accepted by someone. :) I'm glad that someone has use for it. Regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from jteft@frontiernet.net Fri Aug 24 12:32:40 2001 f7OHWeZ16415 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Newbie ? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Just finished my first rod a nodeless 6' 3' 3wt 2 piece done to the =taper in Wayne Cattanach's book. The question I have is there any thread =colors for wrapping that should be avoided ? I wrapped this one in =yellow silk use dolor fixer. The wraps came out anywhere from yellow to =almost semi transparent. I gave them 3 coats of Helmsman Spar urethane =cut 4 to 1 with mineral spirsts after the color fixer and 1 straight =coat all by brush. Going to build with nodes this time to see which I preferr. Can say =gluing all those little pieces and getting the angles to align was a =challange. Back to node pressing ! Jim T Just finished my first rod a nodeless 6' 3' 3wt 2 = to the taper in Wayne Cattanach's book. The question I have is there any = yellow to almost semi transparent. I gave them 3 coats of Helmsman Spar = all by brush. align was a challange. Back to node pressing ! Jim T from bob.kossler@compaq.com Fri Aug 24 12:41:54 2001 f7OHfrZ16974 (5.5.2652.78) Subject: Test - Please delete from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Aug 24 15:19:57 2001 f7OKJtZ25467 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Best tips? All, Much of the "stress" of straightening nodes might be relieved if you: 1) reduce the dimensions of your strips as much as possible before heatstraightening:2) realize that straightening nodes should not be thought ofas a "once and done" task--repeated heating while the dimensions are stilllarge can damage a node unnecessarily;3) even the most troublesome nodes can be straightened quickly andeffortlessly after the planing is underway--all the way up until the final.020" Do not use a vice to press nodes, as vices cannot recognize plasticity, orhow much pressure may be "too much." Learn to work with your hands. Theyare capable of learning what a vice cannot. Bill san, I completely agree with your opinion about vising nodes.I still believe that the node is stiffer than internodal part when it isnatural.Pressing and repeated heat treating will weaken the node very much, Ibelieve. This is one of my methods of straightening nodes, adjacent nodes afterplaning is started; especially for a dimple at adjacent node. Prepare a brass or NS (or any) round bar stock with around 0.78 diarmeter,2-3 inches long.Turn it on the lathe using threading byte (60deg. point byte).Just make two or three straight V channels (not a thread) around the middlepart of the bar stock with different depths (for a tip and a butt strip),each V channel is apart about 0.4" to each other.Ask SWMBO to use her clothes iron. Put the bar stock on the flat table.Put a node (dimple) part of a triangle strip to be straighten, in theappropriate depth of V channel of the bar stock with enamel side up.Put the well heated iron on the dimple and move the iron forward and backuntil the dimple part is well heated. The enamel side of the dimple willbe aligned (straighten) with the sole of the iron. The completed strip tend to bent at the node since adjacent dimple isstraightened. Then put the strip in the V channel of planing form andpress with clothes iron from enamel side of the strip to straighten thebend.Though this is not perfect, it works sometimes.Using heat and hand is of-course quicker than this. Max from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Fri Aug 24 16:16:59 2001 f7OLGwZ28185 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:16:55 -0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: Best tips? Hello all, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree that vice straightening is detrimental tocane. I guess if you REALLY crank down on it, yes you'll do some damage.But over extending a piece of cane with your hands when straightening willalso do damage.I still don't get the node hassle. I don't find this a nerve racking partof the process. I'm on a mission to clear the reputation of the node.Nodes are your friends. Be not afraid of the node. Tom Ausfeld , president of N.A.S. (Node Appreciation Society)rochester, ny ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? All, Much of the "stress" of straightening nodes might be relieved if you: 1) reduce the dimensions of your strips as much as possible before heatstraightening:2) realize that straightening nodes should not be thought ofas a "once and done" task--repeated heating while the dimensions arestilllarge can damage a node unnecessarily;3) even the most troublesome nodes can be straightened quickly andeffortlessly after the planing is underway--all the way up until thefinal020" Do not use a vice to press nodes, as vices cannot recognize plasticity,orhow much pressure may be "too much." Learn to work with your hands.Theyare capable of learning what a vice cannot. Bill san, I completely agree with your opinion about vising nodes.I still believe that the node is stiffer than internodal part when it isnatural.Pressing and repeated heat treating will weaken the node very much, Ibelieve. This is one of my methods of straightening nodes, adjacent nodes afterplaning is started; especially for a dimple at adjacent node. Prepare a brass or NS (or any) round bar stock with around 0.78diarmeter,2-3 inches long.Turn it on the lathe using threading byte (60deg. point byte).Just make two or three straight V channels (not a thread) around themiddlepart of the bar stock with different depths (for a tip and a butt strip),each V channel is apart about 0.4" to each other.Ask SWMBO to use her clothes iron. Put the bar stock on the flat table.Put a node (dimple) part of a triangle strip to be straighten, in theappropriate depth of V channel of the bar stock with enamel side up.Put the well heated iron on the dimple and move the iron forward and backuntil the dimple part is well heated. The enamel side of the dimplewillbe aligned (straighten) with the sole of the iron. manner.The completed strip tend to bent at the node since adjacent dimple isstraightened. Then put the strip in the V channel of planing form andpress with clothes iron from enamel side of the strip to straighten thebend.Though this is not perfect, it works sometimes.Using heat and hand is of-course quicker than this. Max from jojo@ipa.net Fri Aug 24 17:09:40 2001 f7OM9eZ00304 Subject: Re: Best tips? My forms have a block near each end, one in the approx. center, and one inbetween those on the ends. I machined them out of aluminum so that theyhavean L-shape. This way every other one is turned the opposite direction sothat the forms are held in place by the leg on the block. They raise theforms 1" above the work bench. Makes it much easier to hold the strips inplace using that wonderful gift of the opposable thumb. M-D Ralph, How many blocks do you use? Do you find that your form has a tendencytodeflect in the center as you plane? If it does deflect does that causeproblems? My guess is that you would have to support it more than justatthe ends. Maybe every 12 to 15 inches. Tim From: "Ralph MacKenzie" Thought of one I should have added the first time - it REALLY has helpedme on the last two rods: Put blocks under your planing form to elevate it off the work surface soyou can reach under it. It really helps in holding strips in place, ingeneral cleanup, and in comfort. I don't bother with finger cots now. I can hold the strips easily withjust my thumb this way, kinda like a guitar player. mac from jojo@ipa.net Fri Aug 24 17:10:36 2001 f7OMAZZ00442 Subject: Re: Best tips? The best tip I've ever gotten was "Straighten, straighten, straighten." M-D I'd certainly agree with all the tips already offered but would add;Re-check form settings twice before starting final planing.Take as much time as necessary (if you're not building nodeless) to getnodal areas perfectly flat, and re-check every strip before starting toplane.The more time invested in straightening strips, including taking twistsout,is really worth it.Winston Binney from jojo@ipa.net Fri Aug 24 17:15:58 2001 f7OMFuZ00873 Subject: Re: Best tips? I do this, as well, but still hollow out at the nodes using the my verticalbelt sander. It has a roller that is some 3*" in diameter, so it makes iteasy to get a nice dip in the strip. Also, I'm not compressing in the vicebut displacing in the vise. Never had a strip break at a node. M-D Harry;I guess I should have mentioned that part. I made a jig for my drillpress that has pices of wood that comes to a point right in front of asanding drum, I can set the distance whatever I choose between the pointand the sanding drum,. I run all my strips thru this with the pith sideto the drum, it makes them a uniform thickness from end to end,regardless of any bumps or bends, then I heat and straighten. When Iclamp down, the strip has no choice but to be straight. It also savessome planing effort, as I thickness my strips to about .20 over thethickest dimension of the finshed strip. It takes me about 20 minutes tothickness 18 strips and i think it saves me about 3 hours ofaggravation.John Harry Boyd wrote: Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul for bringingit tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heating theentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- orsomethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pith toproviderelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that wouldfacilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather thancompressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compress thehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. Firstpressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinner tipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and press whileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd from anglport@con2.com Fri Aug 24 17:18:13 2001 f7OMICZ01160 Subject: Viruses again!!! Something to do with "Fusion" I don't know if I'm just "lucky" or the rest of you are getting mail from a"Haasnat" (I think it was before I deleted it) too, but ole "Sir Cam" isback in business!Watch out!Art----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? I don't bother with the inner nodes at all. Don't even knock them outaftersplitting in half. Forgot to do it once and I did not have any problemsplittingthe strips. After the strips are split. On a small bandsaw, I saw out ashallow1/2 moon on the pith side removing the whole inner node. This gives me therelief Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul for bringingit tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heating theentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- orsomethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pith toproviderelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that wouldfacilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather thancompressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compress thehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. Firstpressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinner tipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and press whileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bamboorods@saber.net Fri Aug 24 17:42:28 2001 f7OMgQZ02236 Subject: Best taper using size 16 ferrule This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Chris Raine Anyone made a 2 piece rod using a= Chris =Raine from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Aug 24 22:11:07 2001 f7P3B6Z06605 Subject: Re: Best tips? mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Dear Tom,I want to join!I love nodes too!I love the way they sparkle and shine in the sun.I love the way your friends ( who use up valuable graphite that the government stealth industries desperately need, I saw that on the list sometime way back ) think that a node is some malignant growth in your arm pit.Nodes are our friends and need our protection.Build a rod ... save a node! Mike (still buying dolphinless tuna in a CA redemption value container) ShayPS can't afford dues at this time as I build rods, but keep up the good fight! Dear Tom,I want to join!I love nodes too!I love the way they sparkle and shine in the sun. the government stealth industries desperately need, I saw that on the list sometime way back ) think that a node is some malignant growth inyour arm pit.Nodes are our friends and need our protection.Build a rod ... save a node! Mike (still buying dolphinless tuna in a CA redemption value container)ShayPS can't afford dues at this time as I build rods, but keep up the goodfight! from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Aug 24 22:31:27 2001 f7P3VQZ07102 Subject: Re: Para 17 Steve,Now THAT'S funny! Mike (the only para is palegic) Shay(JUST KIDDING!) Steve,Now THAT'S funny! Mike (the only para is palegic) Shay(JUST KIDDING!) from SBDunn@aol.com Fri Aug 24 22:48:41 2001 f7P3mfZ07527 Subject: Andy Royer I'm trying to reach Andy Royer, but haven't received a reply to my email. Can anyone tell me if the following is the correct email address? bamboo@w- link.net I'm going to be in Washington State shortly and wanted to buy some bamboo from him. Thanks, Steve. I'm trying to reach Andy Can anyone tell me if the following is the correct email address? bamboo@w-link.net I'm going to be in Washington State shortly and wanted to buy somebamboo from him. Thanks, Steve. from mtbrown@sprynet.com Sat Aug 25 00:13:15 2001 f7P5DEZ08821 Subject: Grooving the final planing form This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Vapor Locked: I just finished installing the last bolt in my 10' form. =I need to know the best way to cut the grove in fear that I will =screw-up all the time I've spent building this form. Some suggest the =file method, "the lovely reed" suggests making a jig with a thread =cutting lathe bit. A friend said bring over my first set of bar stock =and I will cut the grove on my mill!!!!! Now that I'm on my second set =of bars i won't be doing that again. Help!! I = cut the grove in fear that I will screw-up all the time I've spent = <:()!!! rodmaker" from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Aug 25 00:18:35 2001 f7P5IZZ09086 WAA17380 Subject: Best Tips-straight sections This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Here is a good one to get your sections dead straight every time. After = In the butt section of your forms take the original dimension of the =tip or butt and multiply it by 1.72. Now reset the form, this will give =the proper taper for the blank tip or butt. Place the section in the =form and proceed to compress it with your thumb to remove any twist. Place a heavy bar of steel. I use 2 1/4x2" CRS bar tape together and =place it on top of the blank. I check it every 1/2 hour for a few hours =and rotate and fine tune each flat. If any twist persist placement of =quick grip clamps allow you to lock the proper position in place while =it dries. It is actually like placing the blank in a mold. The section comes out twist and kink free! Every time Adam Vigil Here is a good one to get your sections= straight every time. After glue up use a board to roll your section to = straight. In the butt section of your forms take= the form, this will give the proper taper for the blank tip or butt. = section in the form and proceed to compress it with your thumb to remove = twist. Place a heavy bar of steel. I use = every 1/2 hour for a few hours and rotate and fine tune each flat. If = persist placement of quick grip clamps allow you to lock the proper = place while it dries. It is actually like placing the blank = mold. The section comes out twist and kink = time AdamVigil from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Aug 25 07:20:08 2001 f7PCK7Z11869 Subject: Re: Andy Royer This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Steve:Andy may be off-line cleaning up that recent virus his box was emitting.Ed Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 11:48 PMSubject: Andy Royer I'm trying to reach Andy Royer, but haven't received a reply to my = I'm going to be in Washington State shortly and wanted to buy some = Steve:Andy may be off-line cleaning up that = his box was emitting.Ed ----- Original Message ----- SBDunn@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 = PMSubject: Andy RoyerI'mtrying = to be in Washington State shortly and wanted to buy some bamboo = Thanks, Steve. from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Aug 25 09:52:03 2001 f7PEq2Z15260 Subject: Re: Best Tips-straight sections Adam, How do you prevent the section from sticking to the form and yourcompression bar? Mark Cole Adam, How do you prevent the section from sticking to the form and yourcompression bar? Mark Cole from oandc@email.msn.com Sat Aug 25 11:14:41 2001 f7PGEeZ16260 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:14:12 -0700 Subject: Braded line FILETIME=[FA7FD530:01C12D80] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Gentlemen,Perhaps one of you might be able to tell me about a braded line with a =clear coating? Plastic? I wasn't aware that any braded lines were =factory coated. Any input?Wayne ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/01 Gentlemen,Perhaps one of you might be able to = braded line with a clear coating? Plastic? I wasn't aware that any = were factory coated. Any input?Wayne ---Outgoing mail is certified = Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: = Virus Database: 143 - Release Date:8/16/01 from oandc@email.msn.com Sat Aug 25 11:18:36 2001 f7PGIZZ16552 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:18:07 -0700 Subject: Braided lines FILETIME=[86DFCE90:01C12D81] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Along the same lines, does anyone know of a site covering braided line =history? ThanksWayne ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/01 Along the same lines, does anyone know= covering braided line history? ThanksWayne ---Outgoing mail is certified = Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: = Virus Database: 143 - Release Date:8/16/01 from harms1@pa.net Sat Aug 25 11:20:36 2001 f7PGKXZ16774 Subject: Re: Best tips? "Compressing," "displacing"... It's all much the same to a vise thatcan't recognize the difference. You may not have had a node actually break(to your knowledge), but you may well have fractured and mashed fiberswithout even knowing it. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? I do this, as well, but still hollow out at the nodes using the myverticalbelt sander. It has a roller that is some 3*" in diameter, so it makes iteasy to get a nice dip in the strip. Also, I'm not compressing in the vicebut displacing in the vise. Never had a strip break at a node. M-D From: "channer" Harry;I guess I should have mentioned that part. I made a jig for my drillpress that has pices of wood that comes to a point right in front of asanding drum, I can set the distance whatever I choose between the pointand the sanding drum,. I run all my strips thru this with the pith sideto the drum, it makes them a uniform thickness from end to end,regardless of any bumps or bends, then I heat and straighten. When Iclamp down, the strip has no choice but to be straight. It also savessome planing effort, as I thickness my strips to about .20 over thethickest dimension of the finshed strip. It takes me about 20 minutes tothickness 18 strips and i think it saves me about 3 hours ofaggravation.John Harry Boyd wrote: Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul forbringingit tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heatingtheentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- orsomethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pith toproviderelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that wouldfacilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather thancompressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compressthehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. Firstpressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinner tipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and presswhileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd from harms1@pa.net Sat Aug 25 11:30:14 2001 f7PGUDZ17153 Subject: Re: Best tips? Tom, I certainly agree that straightening nodes is no big deal, and there's noreason to shy away from the process. I do disagree, however, that using a vice causes no damage. When youstraighten with your hands, you can feel the plasticity that is necessarywhen the fibers are "ready" to bend. You will not "over-bend," because yourhands detect when excessive pressure is being applied. This is notdifficult to learn, though practicing on some "junk" strips is always a bestbet. Straightening in a vice teaches you next-to-nothing about the requisiteplasticity, as a vice can generate enormous power without your hands beingable to feel what is going on inside the node. You may not actually bebreaking nodes, but you could easily be causing damage without even knowingit. Just one guy's opinion about how to avoid a potential problem. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? Hello all, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree that vice straightening is detrimentaltocane. I guess if you REALLY crank down on it, yes you'll do some damage.But over extending a piece of cane with your hands when straightening willalso do damage.I still don't get the node hassle. I don't find this a nerve racking partof the process. I'm on a mission to clear the reputation of the node.Nodes are your friends. Be not afraid of the node. Tom Ausfeld , president of N.A.S. (Node Appreciation Society)rochester, ny ----- Original Message -----From: Max Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 4:19 PMSubject: Re: Best tips? All, Much of the "stress" of straightening nodes might be relieved if you: 1) reduce the dimensions of your strips as much as possible beforeheatstraightening:2) realize that straightening nodes should not be thought ofas a "once and done" task--repeated heating while the dimensions arestilllarge can damage a node unnecessarily;3) even the most troublesome nodes can be straightened quickly andeffortlessly after the planing is underway--all the way up until thefinal020" Do not use a vice to press nodes, as vices cannot recognizeplasticity,orhow much pressure may be "too much." Learn to work with yourhands.Theyare capable of learning what a vice cannot. Bill san, I completely agree with your opinion about vising nodes.I still believe that the node is stiffer than internodal part when it isnatural.Pressing and repeated heat treating will weaken the node very much, Ibelieve. This is one of my methods of straightening nodes, adjacent nodes afterplaning is started; especially for a dimple at adjacent node. Prepare a brass or NS (or any) round bar stock with around 0.78diarmeter,2-3 inches long.Turn it on the lathe using threading byte (60deg. point byte).Just make two or three straight V channels (not a thread) around themiddlepart of the bar stock with different depths (for a tip and a buttstrip),each V channel is apart about 0.4" to each other.Ask SWMBO to use her clothes iron. Put the bar stock on the flat table.Put a node (dimple) part of a triangle strip to be straighten, in theappropriate depth of V channel of the bar stock with enamel side up.Put the well heated iron on the dimple and move the iron forward andbackuntil the dimple part is well heated. The enamel side of the dimplewillbe aligned (straighten) with the sole of the iron. manner.The completed strip tend to bent at the node since adjacent dimple isstraightened. Then put the strip in the V channel of planing form andpress with clothes iron from enamel side of the strip to straighten thebend.Though this is not perfect, it works sometimes.Using heat and hand is of-course quicker than this. Max from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Aug 25 11:44:23 2001 f7PGiMZ17547 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Braded line Wayne,Flyline evolution/devolution is very interesting. The chronology is approximately as follows:-- braided horsehair-- braided silk-- solid braided tapered silk with oil/varnish-- solid braided tapered silk, vacuum dressed with oil/varnish (also enamelled silk which wasn't very durable)-- solid braided tapered nylon, vacuum dressed with oil/varnish-- solid braided tapered nylon, with a uniform clear plastic coating (e.g., early Cortland "333") -- also some silk lines were so treated-- hollow braided level nylon with PVC tapered coating-- solid braided tapered silk, vacuum dressed with oil/varnish :)-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Wayne Kifer wrote: Gentlemen, Perhaps one of you might be able to tell me about a braded line with a clear coating? Plastic? I wasn't aware that any braded lines were factory coated. Any input? Wayne ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/01 -- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from robertgkope@home.com Sat Aug 25 11:47:35 2001 f7PGlYZ17826 femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com 0700 Subject: Re: Grooving the final planing form This is a multi-part message in MIME format. The file is good for finishing the groove, but a file tends to load up =and need frequent cleaning. I had to clean the file every couple of =passes on my 6' forms. You also need to keep adjusting the gap between = The thread cutting tool in a jig is much faster for removal of stock. =It doesn't load up and you can adjust the depth of the tool so you don't =need to keep adjusting the width of the gap between the bars as you cut =the groove down. The down side is that it tends to leave a wavy groove, =so you need to stop short of your final depth and finish the groove with =the file method. -- Robert Kope Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:10 PMSubject: Grooving the final planing form Vapor Locked: I just finished installing the last bolt in my 10' =form. I need to know the best way to cut the grove in fear that I will =screw-up all the time I've spent building this form. Some suggest the =file method, "the lovely reed" suggests making a jig with a thread =cutting lathe bit. A friend said bring over my first set of bar stock =and I will cut the grove on my mill!!!!! Now that I'm on my second set =of bars i won't be doing that again. Help!! The file is good for finishing the = = The thread cutting tool in a jig is = the tool so you don't need to keep adjusting the width of the gap = need to stop short of your final depth and finish the groove with the = method. -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Melissa Brown Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 = PMSubject: Grooving the final = form Vapor cut the grove in fear that I will screw-up all the time I've spent = my first set of bar stock and I will cut the grove on my = Mike aka rodmaker" from captvonbek@earthlink.net Sat Aug 25 11:48:01 2001 f7PGm0Z17914 JAA02899 Subject: RE: Best Tips? Bill, What you say certainly makes a great deal of sense. You have talked aboutusing your hands to straighten strips, which is what I do as many others,but you've not gone into detail about how you press raised nodes with yourhands. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from oborge@mwt.net Sat Aug 25 13:12:37 2001 f7PICaZ20084 Subject: RE: Braded line This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Wayne,Orvis's intermediate fly lines have a clear plastic coating with a braidedcore.I think most PVC fly lines have a braided core.Is the plastic coating tapered or is the core tapered with an even coatingof PVC? Olaf BorgeSilk fly lines bought and soldVisa/MasterCard acceptedURL: www.silkflylines.comMail: P.O. Box 361 Viroqua, Wisconsin 54665Email: oborge@mwt.netPhone: 608-675-3509 Fax: 608-675-3681 -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: Braded line Gentlemen,Perhaps one of you might be able to tell me about a braded line with aclear coating? Plastic? I wasn't aware that any braded lines were factorycoated. Any input?Wayne ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/01 Wayne,Orvis's intermediate fly lines have a clear = coating with a braided core. think most PVC fly lines have a braided core. Olaf BorgeSilk fly lines bought and = Wisconsin 54665Email: oborge@mwt.netPhone: 608-675-3509 608-675-3681 KiferSent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:16 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Braded =lineGentlemen,Perhaps one of you might be able to = a braded line with a clear coating? Plastic? I wasn't aware that any = lines were factory coated. Any input?Wayne ---Outgoing mail is certified= Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: = 8/16/01 from homes-sold@home.com Sat Aug 25 13:38:42 2001 f7PIcfZ20742 femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:38:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Grooving the final planing form This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Robert,You are correct on both counts. The file will load-up and need cleaning =when making forms from scratch and the 60* lathe bit will cut faster but =leave a wavy grove.I've made 2 adjustable tools or jigs that addresses both problems and =neither requires you to re-adjust the forms once you start the process.One I call the "File Plane" and the other, "60* Lathe Bit Plane", is a =plane that hold a 60* lathe bit with guides, no wavy grove, that keeps =the bit in the center of the grove the entire length of the form.The upcoming issue of "Powerfibers" will have an article on the "File =Plane" and its use.Don Subject: Re: Grooving the final planing form The file is good for finishing the groove, but a file tends to load up =and need frequent cleaning. I had to clean the file every couple of =passes on my 6' forms. You also need to keep adjusting the gap between = The thread cutting tool in a jig is much faster for removal of stock. =It doesn't load up and you can adjust the depth of the tool so you don't =need to keep adjusting the width of the gap between the bars as you cut =the groove down. The down side is that it tends to leave a wavy groove, =so you need to stop short of your final depth and finish the groove with =the file method. -- Robert Kope Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:10 PMSubject: Grooving the final planing form Vapor Locked: I just finished installing the last bolt in my 10' =form. I need to know the best way to cut the grove in fear that I will =screw-up all the time I've spent building this form. Some suggest the =file method, "the lovely reed" suggests making a jig with a thread =cutting lathe bit. A friend said bring over my first set of bar stock =and I will cut the grove on my mill!!!!! Now that I'm on my second set =of bars i won't be doing that again. Help!! Robert,You are correct on both counts. The = bit will cut faster but leave a wavy grove.I've made 2 adjustable tools or jigs = both problems and neither requires you to re-adjust the forms once you = process.One I call the "File Plane" and the = the form.The upcoming issue of "Powerfibers" = article on the "File Plane" and its use.Don From:Robert = Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 9:55 AMSubject: Re: Grooving the final planing form The file is good for finishing the = = The thread cutting tool in a jig is = the tool so you don't need to keep adjusting the width of the gap = need to stop short of your final depth and finish the groove with the = method. -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Melissa Brown Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 = PMSubject: Grooving the final = form Vapor cut the grove in fear that I will screw-up all the time I've spent = my first set of bar stock and I will cut the grove on my = Mike aka rodmaker" from stpete@netten.net Sat Aug 25 13:41:40 2001 f7PIfdZ20983 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:55:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Grooving the final planing form Mike, The short answer is stay away from the mill and use both the filemethod and the lathe bit method.The long answer is this: The downside of using the file alone isthat you have to adjust the forms constantly (and at 10 feet long, thatwould be a monumental task). Also, the file loads up easily and must becleaned frequently. Finally, the file cuts rather slowly. The upsideof the file method is that the file tends to cut a straighter line downthe groove, with no chattering (wavy cut marks), and is very controlledso the cut is even on both sides. The upside of the lathe bit method isthat it cuts very fast and you don't have to constantly adjust the forms- you adjust the lathe bit jig. The downside of the lathe bit is thatyou can easily cut more on one side than the other (which the longercutting surface of the file eliminates), the bit tends to chatter if notpulled steadily, with constant pressure and good lubrication (which Isuggest, use a good cutting oil like "Tap-It"), and you can easily cuttoo deeply. By combining both methods, you can cut quickly andprecisely. Here's how it works: 1. make sure your forms are filed flat on the inner surfaces where thebars meet.2. make sure your forms are filed flat on the top and bottom surfaceswhere the grooves will go. (per Penrose webpage)3. make a jig with the longest straight part of a triangular file thatyou can find (make sure it's a true 60 *) and make sure the file sectionis glued true and flat to the jig. Break off the taper portion and saveit for some other use. I used an old piece of formica counter top toglue the file to. Shim with Plexiglas if needed to clear the bolts.You might need two sizes (depths) for such long forms.4. make a jig for a 60* lathe bit. (there is a design in "The Best ofthe Planing Form" and also on Bruce Conner's web page) Steel would bebest, but hardwood is a decent choice. (this would be an ideal job foryour friend with the mill.) The key points in making the jig are a)that it has a depth adjustment for the bit and b) that it has a trueperpendicular mounting to the bottom of the jig. The bit needs to sitin the jig so that it is square to the forms on all axis - vertical,horizontal and lateral. I suggest using a large bit to help in cuttingthe deep grooves. 3/8" minimum, 1/2" is better. buy several - theyare cheap and can be dulled after much use. Also, less likely tochatter when a sharp bit is used.5. Choose the best location for measuring the gap relative to the boltsand mark the form precisely at 5" intervals from that spot along thelength of the form.6. Use a precise means of setting an ever widening gap in the forms. Ithink that feeler gauges are easiest and very precise. But if you arevery careful you can use your dial calipers. Just make sure they aresquare to the inner surfaces of the form in every direction. I used.005" per 5", but use what you like best. Check, double check andtriple check the settings to make sure adjustments down the line don'taffect the ones you just set. I go over the forms at least twice,better three times. Make sure the tip end of the forms aren't spreadfarther apart than your file jig can reach.7. Once your forms are set, you are done adjusting the forms with thismethod.8. Set your lathe bit jig on the end of the forms where the forms areclosest (this will be the deep part of the groove). Put some .01" or.015" shims (or whatever works well) under each side of the jig on topof the forms and set the jig to cut at this depth. Remove the shims andstart cutting by firmly and steadily dragging the jig down the length ofthe forms. Of course it will only cut at the very narrow gap end. Whenit will no longer cut at the depth set, use the file jig to smooth outthe area just cut. Try to keep the plane of the 60* jig parallel to theforms since the face of the jig will not be able to touch the surface ofthe forms.9. Repeat step 8 until you have achieved the correct depth at the tipend of the groove. Cut carefully toward the end. The lathe bit canquickly remove too much steel on the shallow ends of the groove. Finishas usual with the file. Rick C. Mike and Melissa Brown wrote: Vapor Locked: I just finished installing the last bolt in my 10'form. I need to know the best way to cut the grove in fear that Iwill screw-up all the time I've spent building this form. Somesuggest the file method, "the lovely reed" suggests making a jig witha thread cutting lathe bit. A friend said bring over my first set ofbar stock and I will cut the grove on my mill!!!!! Now that I'm on mysecond set of bars i won't be doing that again. Help!! aka "newbie rodmaker" from stpete@netten.net Sat Aug 25 13:50:33 2001 f7PIoWZ21363 Subject: Quad planing form Is there any advice an experienced list member could give to me onmaking steel planing forms for quads? I have an idea that I couldsquare up two sets of bars and use a 90* cutting tool to cut the leftand right grooved bars, but I can't find the 90* bit, nor am I sure thatI could mate the bars up in anything other than single pairs. In otherwords, how could I true up two sets of bars, drill and tap them, thenswap bars to make the 90* groove. I don't think I could drill and tapthem that precisely that they would mate up with anything but theoriginal partnered bar. Am I overanalyzing this or are there any tipsthat one could give to help me feel more assured about this method? Rick C. from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Sat Aug 25 14:46:00 2001 f7PJjxZ22534 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:45:55 -0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 Subject: Re: Best tips? Bill, Actually, when using a vice you must be able to detect plasticity,otherwise, pressing in a vice would do nothing for straightening. It wouldcome out of the vice as crooked as it was when it went in. My procedure is to heat to the point of plasticity, put in vice and closejaws, NOT crank down on, CLOSE THE JAWS. I would guess that the amountofpressure I'm exerting on the bamboo is no more than your thumbs areexerting. When using the thumbs ala Garrison all the pressure is directedto a pivot point. The pressure from the jaws is exerted throughout the 4" ofcontact, so pounds per square in inch is lower, and the pressure exerted onthe node area is constant throughout the length. I used to do it the Garrison way, except I used a heat gun, I had greatresults, but I find pressing easier. I also never had a strip fail a testbend. Regards, Tom Ausfeldrochester, ny ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? Tom, I certainly agree that straightening nodes is no big deal, and there's noreason to shy away from the process. I do disagree, however, that using a vice causes no damage. When youstraighten with your hands, you can feel the plasticity that is necessarywhen the fibers are "ready" to bend. You will not "over-bend," becauseyourhands detect when excessive pressure is being applied. This is notdifficult to learn, though practicing on some "junk" strips is always abestbet. Straightening in a vice teaches you next-to-nothing about the requisiteplasticity, as a vice can generate enormous power without your handsbeingable to feel what is going on inside the node. You may not actually bebreaking nodes, but you could easily be causing damage without evenknowingit. Just one guy's opinion about how to avoid a potential problem. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:19 PMSubject: Re: Best tips? Hello all, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree that vice straightening is detrimentaltocane. I guess if you REALLY crank down on it, yes you'll do somedamage.But over extending a piece of cane with your hands when straighteningwillalso do damage.I still don't get the node hassle. I don't find this a nerve rackingpartof the process. I'm on a mission to clear the reputation of the node.Nodes are your friends. Be not afraid of the node. Tom Ausfeld , president of N.A.S. (Node Appreciation Society)rochester, ny ----- Original Message -----From: Max Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 4:19 PMSubject: Re: Best tips? All, Much of the "stress" of straightening nodes might be relieved ifyou: 1) reduce the dimensions of your strips as much as possible beforeheatstraightening:2) realize that straightening nodes should not be thought ofas a "once and done" task--repeated heating while the dimensions arestilllarge can damage a node unnecessarily;3) even the most troublesome nodes can be straightened quickly andeffortlessly after the planing is underway--all the way up until thefinal020" Do not use a vice to press nodes, as vices cannot recognizeplasticity,orhow much pressure may be "too much." Learn to work with yourhands.Theyare capable of learning what a vice cannot. Bill san, I completely agree with your opinion about vising nodes.I still believe that the node is stiffer than internodal part when itisnatural.Pressing and repeated heat treating will weaken the node very much, Ibelieve. This is one of my methods of straightening nodes, adjacent nodesafterplaning is started; especially for a dimple at adjacent node. Prepare a brass or NS (or any) round bar stock with around 0.78diarmeter,2-3 inches long.Turn it on the lathe using threading byte (60deg. point byte).Just make two or three straight V channels (not a thread) around themiddlepart of the bar stock with different depths (for a tip and a buttstrip),each V channel is apart about 0.4" to each other.Ask SWMBO to use her clothes iron. Put the bar stock on the flattable.Put a node (dimple) part of a triangle strip to be straighten, in theappropriate depth of V channel of the bar stock with enamel side up.Put the well heated iron on the dimple and move the iron forward andbackuntil the dimple part is well heated. The enamel side of the dimplewillbe aligned (straighten) with the sole of the iron. manner.The completed strip tend to bent at the node since adjacent dimple isstraightened. Then put the strip in the V channel of planing formandpress with clothes iron from enamel side of the strip to straightenthebend.Though this is not perfect, it works sometimes.Using heat and hand is of-course quicker than this. Max from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Sat Aug 25 14:57:46 2001 f7PJvjZ23036 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:57:34 -0700 claiming to be "oemcomputer" 2001 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Best tips? Anytime you heat and relocate the fibers in a stick of bamboo, you run therisk of fracturing something, regardless of method. We just hope that it isinsignificant. If it survives the test bend, which I do before finalplaning, you can be assured it was insignificant.The vice doesn't know the difference of light pressure or cruching forces,but I do and I'm the one controlling the vice. regards,tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? "Compressing," "displacing"... It's all much the same to a vise thatcan't recognize the difference. You may not have had a node actuallybreak(to your knowledge), but you may well have fractured and mashed fiberswithout even knowing it. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:48 PMSubject: Re: Best tips? I do this, as well, but still hollow out at the nodes using the myverticalbelt sander. It has a roller that is some 3*" in diameter, so it makesiteasy to get a nice dip in the strip. Also, I'm not compressing in thevicebut displacing in the vise. Never had a strip break at a node. M-D From: "channer" Harry;I guess I should have mentioned that part. I made a jig for my drillpress that has pices of wood that comes to a point right in front ofasanding drum, I can set the distance whatever I choose between thepointand the sanding drum,. I run all my strips thru this with the pithsideto the drum, it makes them a uniform thickness from end to end,regardless of any bumps or bends, then I heat and straighten. When Iclamp down, the strip has no choice but to be straight. It also savessome planing effort, as I thickness my strips to about .20 over thethickest dimension of the finshed strip. It takes me about 20 minutestothickness 18 strips and i think it saves me about 3 hours ofaggravation.John Harry Boyd wrote: Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul forbringingit tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heatingtheentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- orsomethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pithtoproviderelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that wouldfacilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather thancompressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compressthehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. Firstpressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinnertipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and presswhileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd from jojo@ipa.net Sat Aug 25 15:44:41 2001 f7PKieZ24320 Subject: Re: Best tips? It may all well be the same to a vise but is a very different process, andone which has differing effects upon the bamboo. True enough, I may wellhave fractured and mashed fibers without having known it, regardless, butthe likelihood of having done so is considerably less than if I had mashedthe shit out of the fibers by squeezing as hard as I could with the vise,rather than bending them, with considerably less pressure, into a differentalignment. M-D "Compressing," "displacing"... It's all much the same to a vise thatcan't recognize the difference. You may not have had a node actuallybreak(to your knowledge), but you may well have fractured and mashed fiberswithout even knowing it. cheers, Bill From: "Jojo DeLancier" I do this, as well, but still hollow out at the nodes using the myverticalbelt sander. It has a roller that is some 3*" in diameter, so it makesiteasy to get a nice dip in the strip. Also, I'm not compressing in thevicebut displacing in the vise. Never had a strip break at a node. M-D From: "channer" Harry;I guess I should have mentioned that part. I made a jig for my drillpress that has pices of wood that comes to a point right in front ofasanding drum, I can set the distance whatever I choose between thepointand the sanding drum,. I run all my strips thru this with the pithsideto the drum, it makes them a uniform thickness from end to end,regardless of any bumps or bends, then I heat and straighten. When Iclamp down, the strip has no choice but to be straight. It also savessome planing effort, as I thickness my strips to about .20 over thethickest dimension of the finshed strip. It takes me about 20 minutestothickness 18 strips and i think it saves me about 3 hours ofaggravation.John Harry Boyd wrote: Hi John,I work in a very similar fashion, and also credit Paul forbringingit tomy attention originally. Seems like he originally suggeted heatingtheentire strip in the oven at 400* for 2 minutes, then pressing -- orsomethinglike that. Some of the recent threads about removing a little of the pithtoproviderelief for the nodal humps makes sense to me. Seems that wouldfacilitate,as someone has said, displacing the nodal humps rather thancompressingthem. Just wondering, do you remove a little pith or just compressthehumpslike me? Harry channer wrote: The best tip I ever found was to only heat your nodes once. Firstpressthem with the enamel up for 5 seconds, maybe 3 or 4 on thinnertipstrips, then flip it so the enamel is facing the jaws and presswhileyou heat the next node. -- Harry Boyd from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Aug 25 15:51:24 2001 f7PKpNZ24757 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Braded line Wayne,I had one of the braided silk lines with plastic coating, a WF6. It cast well, but not as well as a pure silk line, vacuum dressed.When I was a kid we bought the early nylon lines coated with plastic. The nylon and plastic stretched at different rates and your nail knot was sometimes dangling from a stretched skin of plastic by day's end. No fun, just part of the game.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Wayne Kifer wrote: Thanks Reed. It is interesting. So there were some silk lines that wereplastic coated. Might you know how well they cast? I wouldn't imagine theywould perform as well as older lines as the non plastic coated silk. Thanks Wayne----- Original Message ----- from jojo@ipa.net Sat Aug 25 15:55:50 2001 f7PKtoZ25025 Subject: Re: Best tips? LOL! I wanna' join! See the node,Be the node. M-D Hello all, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree that vice straightening is detrimentaltocane. I guess if you REALLY crank down on it, yes you'll do some damage.But over extending a piece of cane with your hands when straightening willalso do damage.I still don't get the node hassle. I don't find this a nerve racking partof the process. I'm on a mission to clear the reputation of the node.Nodes are your friends. Be not afraid of the node. Tom Ausfeld , president of N.A.S. (Node Appreciation Society)rochester, ny ----- Original Message -----From: Max Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 4:19 PMSubject: Re: Best tips? All, Much of the "stress" of straightening nodes might be relieved if you: 1) reduce the dimensions of your strips as much as possible beforeheatstraightening:2) realize that straightening nodes should not be thought ofas a "once and done" task--repeated heating while the dimensions arestilllarge can damage a node unnecessarily;3) even the most troublesome nodes can be straightened quickly andeffortlessly after the planing is underway--all the way up until thefinal020" Do not use a vice to press nodes, as vices cannot recognizeplasticity,orhow much pressure may be "too much." Learn to work with yourhands.Theyare capable of learning what a vice cannot. Bill san, I completely agree with your opinion about vising nodes.I still believe that the node is stiffer than internodal part when it isnatural.Pressing and repeated heat treating will weaken the node very much, Ibelieve. This is one of my methods of straightening nodes, adjacent nodes afterplaning is started; especially for a dimple at adjacent node. Prepare a brass or NS (or any) round bar stock with around 0.78diarmeter,2-3 inches long.Turn it on the lathe using threading byte (60deg. point byte).Just make two or three straight V channels (not a thread) around themiddlepart of the bar stock with different depths (for a tip and a buttstrip),each V channel is apart about 0.4" to each other.Ask SWMBO to use her clothes iron. Put the bar stock on the flat table.Put a node (dimple) part of a triangle strip to be straighten, in theappropriate depth of V channel of the bar stock with enamel side up.Put the well heated iron on the dimple and move the iron forward andbackuntil the dimple part is well heated. The enamel side of the dimplewillbe aligned (straighten) with the sole of the iron. manner.The completed strip tend to bent at the node since adjacent dimple isstraightened. Then put the strip in the V channel of planing form andpress with clothes iron from enamel side of the strip to straighten thebend.Though this is not perfect, it works sometimes.Using heat and hand is of-course quicker than this. Max from jojo@ipa.net Sat Aug 25 16:11:14 2001 f7PLBDZ25563 Subject: Re: Grooving the final planing form This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Mike, I did it with sections of triangle files that were glued into inlets cut =into a wooden block. You should be aware that all triangle files are not =created equal. If you choose this method, take your thread gauge (60=B0) =with you and check all the files at the store. I used first a bastard =cut, then a second cut, then a finish cut, followed by a triangle India =stone and oil. The India stone was dead on 60=B0.I cut the full length of a hard maple 2 x 4 and planed it all so that I =had the same material thickness for all four blocks. Then I cut the dado =inlet throughout the full length, then cut into shorter pieces. You may =find that some of the inlets will require more depth, so don't take your =rip fence down 'till your sure.To adjust the forms I used machinist's bore gauges, though this will not =give you quite the exact amount you will need between stations, as you =will only be able to increase by thousandths, and not the fractions =needed to actually have a true ratio. For a more detailed explanation of =this see Thomas Penrose's site. M-D Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 12:10 AMSubject: Grooving the final planing form Vapor Locked: I just finished installing the last bolt in my 10' =form. I need to know the best way to cut the grove in fear that I will =screw-up all the time I've spent building this form. Some suggest the =file method, "the lovely reed" suggests making a jig with a thread =cutting lathe bit. A friend said bring over my first set of bar stock =and I will cut the grove on my mill!!!!! Now that I'm on my second set =of bars i won't be doing that again. Help!! Mike, I did it with sections of= files that were glued into inlets cut into a wooden block. You should be = that all triangle files are not created equal. If you choose this = your thread gauge (60=B0) with you and check all the files at the store. = first a bastard cut, then a second cut, then a finish cut, followed by a = 60=B0.I cut the full length of= 2 x 4 and planed it all so that I had the same material thickness for = blocks. Then I cut the dado inlet throughout the full length, then cut = shorter pieces. You may find that some of the inlets will require more = don't take your rip fence down 'till your sure.To adjust the forms I = machinist's bore gauges, though this will not give you quite the exact = thousandths, and not the fractions needed to actually have a true ratio. = site. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Melissa Brown Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001= AMSubject: Grooving the final = form Vapor cut the grove in fear that I will screw-up all the time I've spent = my first set of bar stock and I will cut the grove on my = Mike aka rodmaker" from dickay@alltel.net Sat Aug 25 16:11:52 2001 f7PLBpZ25687 srv.alltel.net Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:11:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Best tips? Tom, I think that we alreadt need to change the name to NASTI. NodeAppreciation Society, Throughly International. I think that NASTI is a neater name for thisDick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? LOL! I wanna' join! See the node,Be the node. M-D Hello all, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree that vice straightening is detrimentaltocane. I guess if you REALLY crank down on it, yes you'll do somedamage.But over extending a piece of cane with your hands when straighteningwillalso do damage.I still don't get the node hassle. I don't find this a nerve rackingpartof the process. I'm on a mission to clear the reputation of the node.Nodes are your friends. Be not afraid of the node. Tom Ausfeld , president of N.A.S. (Node Appreciation Society)rochester, ny ----- Original Message -----From: Max Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 4:19 PMSubject: Re: Best tips? All, Much of the "stress" of straightening nodes might be relieved ifyou: 1) reduce the dimensions of your strips as much as possible beforeheatstraightening:2) realize that straightening nodes should not be thought ofas a "once and done" task--repeated heating while the dimensions arestilllarge can damage a node unnecessarily;3) even the most troublesome nodes can be straightened quickly andeffortlessly after the planing is underway--all the way up until thefinal020" Do not use a vice to press nodes, as vices cannot recognizeplasticity,orhow much pressure may be "too much." Learn to work with yourhands.Theyare capable of learning what a vice cannot. Bill san, I completely agree with your opinion about vising nodes.I still believe that the node is stiffer than internodal part when itisnatural.Pressing and repeated heat treating will weaken the node very much, Ibelieve. This is one of my methods of straightening nodes, adjacent nodesafterplaning is started; especially for a dimple at adjacent node. Prepare a brass or NS (or any) round bar stock with around 0.78diarmeter,2-3 inches long.Turn it on the lathe using threading byte (60deg. point byte).Just make two or three straight V channels (not a thread) around themiddlepart of the bar stock with different depths (for a tip and a buttstrip),each V channel is apart about 0.4" to each other.Ask SWMBO to use her clothes iron. Put the bar stock on the flattable.Put a node (dimple) part of a triangle strip to be straighten, in theappropriate depth of V channel of the bar stock with enamel side up.Put the well heated iron on the dimple and move the iron forward andbackuntil the dimple part is well heated. The enamel side of the dimplewillbe aligned (straighten) with the sole of the iron. manner.The completed strip tend to bent at the node since adjacent dimple isstraightened. Then put the strip in the V channel of planing formandpress with clothes iron from enamel side of the strip to straightenthebend.Though this is not perfect, it works sometimes.Using heat and hand is of-course quicker than this. Max from iank@ts.co.nz Sat Aug 25 17:53:11 2001 f7PMrAZ28102 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:03:07 +1200 Subject: Re: Best tips? I am not sure that this qualifies me for membership of this illustrioussociety but my tip to newbies is not to worry about nodes and all the jigs I have most of them in the corner of my garage along with water troughs forsoaking, flattened vice etc. I see two problems with flattening nodes by pressure. The first is that itinvolves heating a section of the rod and most likely giving it somedifferent characteristics then the rest of the section. I am not too sureabout this. The second , and more important reason is that regardless ofhowcareful or what technique you use every now and then a slight crack is heardwhen pressing nodes. This can be certain to happen when you only have 6strips for a rod section and no matching spares. After trying lots of different techniques to flatten nodes I now do notbother with pressing. I file the nodes almost flat before splitting the culmas per Wayne C. book . After splitting I straighten any major kinks in thestrips, or reject the kinked strips if I have enough spares, but do notbother about wide bends or curves. I form the rough triangles and heattreat, then sand flat the node areas and the enamel side before finalplanning. This was good enough for some of the rod makers such as Hardy ,and the Garrison video shows him filing down the nodes after heat treating.It may not give "invisible" nodes , but is much easier for newbies and somelike me who have been making rods for a while. Ian K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? Tom, I think that we alreadt need to change the name to NASTI. NodeAppreciation Society, Throughly International. I think that NASTI is a neater name for thisDick Fuhrman from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Sat Aug 25 19:37:16 2001 f7Q0bFZ29852