from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Sep 1 03:20:52 2001 f818KpZ03206 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 03:20:51 -0500 Sat, 1 Sep 2001 01:20:47 -0700 Sat, 01 Sep 2001 08:20:47 GMT Subject: Bamboozle Fly Rod Magazine FILETIME=[00F2A990:01C132BF] Okay - this is in no way rumor or unsubstantiated . I and one other rod maker that I KNOW of have had property stolen. In my case the merchandiseIS NOT replaceable through like kind OR monetary means. In the case of the other maker the property is repaceable through hard work. In both incidents the items were shipped interstate. These are my own personal knowlege. Who knows how much other decietfulcra* has been going on. I can let this go on one level, I've had to on a dozen and a half rods over the years, but please don't equate this shyster SO* with any kind of a reputable business man. Don't deal with him, don't trust him, don't loan him so much as a PENCIL! Don't think that any association with him will do you any good. I fear the stink will tranfer and follow you. This entire 'Bamboozle Fly Rod' stuff has to be stamped out, along with rods that are not delivered, promises not kept and other scourges that have plagued this bamboo biz from time to time. Your right! I'm ticked off! Bad enough to have to put up with this poor excuse for a man but to have people impart ANY legitimacy to his rag is too much for me to sit by the sidelines and try to grin and bear it any longer. Even now I will occasionaly get in a rod for repair/refinish. The happy owner never realizing that the rod he bought from some a** was never paid care of the rod , most of the time for nothing or therabouts, thankful that the rod has found a home where it is appreciated and never say a word tothe new owner about the rods history. Thank goodness my meteoric 18 yr rise to success was only hampered by a couple of dozen of these fools. Thanks to great people like Len Codella, Bob Corsetti and Ron Shanaver who I trust to insulate me from this type of rabble I have been able to concentrate on what I love to do, build cane rods. A.J. From: Canerods@aol.com Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod MagazineDate: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:36:19 EDT I have a Heddon #14 tip that I scarfed for Mark Metcalf (editor and co- ownerBFR) and haven't been able to deliver due to no way to contact - my recentemails have gone unanswered. Two earlier attempts to meet with Mark were metwith "I'll be out of town and I will contact you next week" blow offs. Heck, I wasn't asking for any money for the tip repair, as I was going towrite a tip scarf article for BFR mag. and Mark provided this tip to use inthe article. Don Burns _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Sep 1 09:31:59 2001 f81EVwZ07551 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:31:58 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 10:31:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Stress Graphs--Discertation length reply!!!! Group, Like Bob Nunley, I believe that there is a definite correlation between the stress graph and how a rod casts, at least in the lengths and line weights that I have worked. My early rods were build with the idea of determining what type of taper I preferred. I build t 7' 4 wt Wayne's Sir "D" -- high stress at tip and with Wayne's roll cast hinge; Garrisons's 7' 4 wt 201 -- a straight taper without a swell; and the 7'2" 4 wt Driggs River -- from the para family. These rods are all very distinctive in their casting. Subsequent rods have confirmed that the stress curve is able to provide some prediction how a rod casts after you have developed some experience. The stresscurve tries to integrate the line weight, ferrule weights and bamboo weight into a prediction of the static deformation of a beam. As such it provides muchmore information of a rod's performance than simply looking at the dimension graph. I suppose with experience that a dimension graph could provide a very experienced person with an intuitive feel for the behavior of the rod. I'm not there yet. For me the stress graph is the best indicator of how a rod will behave in my hand. Bob Milward is correct that the Garrison math does not predict how a rod will be stressed under actual casting conditions. Unfortunately, although he has greatly increased our understanding of bamboo rods, he does not provide us with a practical mathematical design alternative. Bob's solution "taper design by comparison" is just what most people seem to do. I use the stress graph as a point of departure or mathematical reference point as the graph does, in my experience, have some empirical relationship to how the rodcasts. Mark Cole Group, Like Bob Nunley, I believe that there is a definite correlation betweenthe stress graph and how a rod casts, at least in the lengths and lineweights that I have worked. My early rods were build with the idea ofdetermining what type of taper I preferred. I build t 7' 4 wt Wayne's Sir "D" -- high stress at tip and with Wayne's roll cast hinge; Garrisons's 7' 4 wt 201 -- a straight taper without a swell; and the 7'2" 4 wt Driggs River -- fromthe para family. These rods are all very distinctive in their casting.Subsequent rods have confirmed that the stress curve is able to provide someprediction how a rod casts after you have developed some experience. The stresscurve tries to integrate the line weight, ferrule weights and bamboo weightinto a prediction of the static deformation of a beam. As such it providesmuch more information of a rod's performance than simply looking at the dimension graph. I suppose with experience that a dimension graph could provide avery experienced person with an intuitive feel for the behavior of the rod. I'm how a rod will behave in my hand. Bob Milward is correct that the Garrison math does not predict how arod will be stressed under actual casting conditions. Unfortunately, although hehas greatly increased our understanding of bamboo rods, he does notprovide us with a practical mathematical design alternative. Bob's solution "taper design by comparison" is just what most people seem to do. I use thestress graph as a point of departure or mathematical reference point as thegraph does, in my experience, have some empirical relationship to how the rodcasts. Mark Cole from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Sep 1 09:42:28 2001 f81EgRZ07920 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:42:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboozle Fly Rod Magazine A.JYou are the man, and you have hit it right on the head as usual! Joseph A Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536716-493-2637 A.J www.geneseevalleyrods.com Portageville,NY 14536 from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Sep 1 10:11:47 2001 f81FBkZ08591 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 10:11:47 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:11:43 -0400 Subject: Bamboo fly rod magazine OK ,now I'm really confused. some people were bamboozled by the magazine or it's owner.Then why when I went to the site do I see alot of common names from this =list?Is this an old site, that has never been updated or what's the deal?I never subscribed to the bamboo fly rod, but I did purchase the =magazineat the local flyshop. I never had any articles published ,so I have no = defend or attack. But I did get a chance to talk to Mark on the phone =one time.He was a heck of a nice guy(at least to me)and I kind of have to give = I'm not defending him, just wondering?The magazine was a great idea, is it possible that he just got in over =his head andhe is a little embarrassed by it. Who knows maybe if he can get it =rolling again he might make good on the subscriptions. Mark if your out =there somewhere in cyber space, "if there is anything I can do to help =revive the magazine,let me know"Tony Miller BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} OK ,now I'm really confused. from what I'm getting out of everyone's post's is that some people were bamboozled by the magazine or it's owner. from this list?Is this an old site, that has never been updated or what's the =deal? magazine reason to one time.He was a heck of a nice guy(at least to me)and I kind of have to = credit for convincing me to go from restoring to actually making. The magazine was a great idea, is it possible that he just got in = head andhe is a little embarrassed by it. Who knows maybe if he can get it = again he might make good on the subscriptions. Mark if your out there = magazine,let me know"Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Sep 1 10:44:07 2001 f81Fi6Z09507 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 10:44:06 -0500 Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:44:06 +0200 Subject: Sv: Bamboo fly rod magazine Before we start this debate all over again, I suggest Tony search the A.J: No offense meant. I agree that this particular magazine is stone =cold dead. Tony: search the archives. If You still want to spend time with this =topic,You are by all means free to do so. But my feeling is this list has = Gents, I like wasting time on debates concerning grits, beer, Terry =Ackland(Terry, where are You:-)) and what have You, but GG and Bamboo fly rodmagazine is too much, since too many Listers have not-so-fond =experiencesre. these two subjects. Can we please let it be regards, carsten Subject: Bamboo fly rod magazine OK ,now I'm really confused. some people were bamboozled by the magazine or it's owner.Then why when I went to the site do I see alot of common names from =this list?Is this an old site, that has never been updated or what's the deal?I never subscribed to the bamboo fly rod, but I did purchase the =magazineat the local flyshop. I never had any articles published ,so I have no = defend or attack. But I did get a chance to talk to Mark on the phone =one time.He was a heck of a nice guy(at least to me)and I kind of have to give = I'm not defending him, just wondering?The magazine was a great idea, is it possible that he just got in over =his head andhe is a little embarrassed by it. Who knows maybe if he can get it =rolling again he might make good on the subscriptions. Mark if your out =there somewhere in cyber space, "if there is anything I can do to help =revive the magazine,let me know"Tony Miller BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no- repeat;COLOR: =#000000; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT; FONT-SIZE: 12pt} Before we start this debate all over = suggest Tony search thearchives - God knows there is plenty to= this particular magazine is stone cold dead. Tony: search the archives. If You still = spend time with this topic,You are by all means free to do so. But= is this list has spent enough = time on this subject. Gents, I like wasting time on debates = grits, beer, Terry Ackland(Terry, where are You:-)) and what have= and Bamboo fly rodmagazine is too much, since too many = not-so-fond experiencesre. these two subjects. Can we please let it be regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Saturday, September 01, = PMSubject: Bamboo fly rod =magazine OK ,now I'm really confused. from what I'm getting out of everyone's post's is that some people were bamboozled by the magazine or it's owner. from this list? deal? magazineat the local flyshop. I never had any articles published = no reason to phone one time.He was a heck of a nice guy(at least to me)and I kind of have to = credit for convincing me to go from restoring to actually making. = The magazine was a great idea, is it possible that he just got in = his head andhe is a little embarrassed by it. Who knows maybe if he can get = rolling again he might make good on the subscriptions. Mark if your = the magazine,let me know"Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Sep 1 10:55:06 2001 f81Ft5Z10029 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 10:55:05 -0500 ;Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:55:05 +0200 Subject: Sv: Rod Stress Graphs I happen to agree with Mark and have used stress curvessince the famous explanation by Sir D years ago of howthey are explained. This is why I still am looking for an answer to the question ofhow come one line size up or down is a jump of 0.01 - 0.012inches when calculated by hexrod. Come on You matemathicians out there - lets have a word fromthe wise. Am I really the only one who wonders? regards, carsten jorgensen www.daniaflyrods.com Subject: Re: Rod Stress Graphs--Discertation length reply!!!! Like Bob Nunley, I believe that there is a definite correlation = stress graph and how a rod casts, at least in the lengths and line = that I have worked. My early rods were build with the idea of = what type of taper I preferred. I build t 7' 4 wt Wayne's Sir "D" -- = stress at tip and with Wayne's roll cast hinge; Garrisons's 7' 4 wt = straight taper without a swell; and the 7'2" 4 wt Driggs River -- from = para family. These rods are all very distinctive in their casting. = rods have confirmed that the stress curve is able to provide some = how a rod casts after you have developed some experience. The stress = tries to integrate the line weight, ferrule weights and bamboo weight = prediction of the static deformation of a beam. As such it provides = information of a rod's performance than simply looking at the = graph. I suppose with experience that a dimension graph could provide = experienced person with an intuitive feel for the behavior of the rod. = not there yet. For me the stress graph is the best indicator of how a = Bob Milward is correct that the Garrison math does not predict how a = be stressed under actual casting conditions. Unfortunately, although = greatly increased our understanding of bamboo rods, he does not = with a practical mathematical design alternative. Bob's solution = design by comparison" is just what most people seem to do. I use the = graph as a point of departure or mathematical reference point as the = does, in my experience, have some empirical relationship to how the = I happen to agree with Mark and have = curvessince the famous explanation by Sir D = howthey are explained. This is why I still am looking for an = question ofhow come one line size up or down is a = - 0.012inches when calculated by =hexrod. Come on You matemathicians out there- = word fromthe wise. Am I really the only one wonders? regards, carsten jorgensen www.daniaflyrods.com ----- Original Message ----- MasjC1@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 01, = PM Graphs--Discertation length reply!!!!Group, Like Bob Nunley, I believe that = definite correlation between the stress graph and how a rod casts, = least in the lengths and line weights that I have worked. My early = were build with the idea of determining what type of taper I = build t 7' 4 wt Wayne's Sir "D" -- high stress at tip and with = roll cast hinge; Garrisons's 7' 4 wt 201 -- a straight taper = swell; and the 7'2" 4 wt Driggs River -- from the para family. = are all very distinctive in their casting. Subsequent rods have = that the stress curve is able to provide some prediction how a rod = after you have developed some experience. The stress curve tries = prediction of the static deformation of a beam. As such it = more information of a rod's performance than simply looking at the = dimension graph. I suppose with experience that a dimension graph = provide a very experienced person with an intuitive feel for the = indicator of how a rod will behave in my hand. Bob Milward = correct that the Garrison math does not predict how a rod will be = under actual casting conditions. Unfortunately, although he has = increased our understanding of bamboo rods, he does not provide us = practical mathematical design alternative. Bob's solution "taper = comparison" is just what most people seem to do. I use the stress = a point of departure or mathematical reference point as the graph = Mark Cole from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Sep 1 11:18:43 2001 f81GIhZ10904 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:18:43 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:18:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo fly rod magazine Carsten , if were all gonna let it rest then why don't we?If I read posts on the subject, then I think it's only natural to Did I do something wrong?Tony Miller BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} we? toto reply. Tony Miller from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Sep 1 11:23:45 2001 f81GNiZ11273 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:23:45 -0500 f81GNjT17065 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 09:23:45 -0700 Subject: new topics and old Havent you ever been new to a hobby or pastime only to do something and =later regret it, wishing someone had clued you in. Often times when =people are new they should be given a heads up by those who know. Yes it =is history for many but it also could be a future mistake for the =unknowing. Personally I think an occasional post on a tired, boresome and pain in =the A** subjects help many of our new silent brothers from making =mistakes that so many seasoned professionals have made. I mean would we feel bad if someone was to send a rod, buy a rod, or =purchase goods and are not dealt with fairly. Only to find out later 600 =list members think it is OK to let newbies waste their time and money =just because the "old timers are tired of talking about it" and might =quit the list if some do mention taboo topics. I have saved alot of time and effort by being "clued in" by several "old =time" list members, you know who you are and I thank you. Adam Vigil P.S.- If you dont agree with me thats O.K. as a favor to you I will tell =you where you get a great deal on a chinese fly rod! (sarcasm for those =who dont get it) Havent you ever been new to a hobby or= to do something and later regret it, wishing someone had clued you in. = times when people are new they should be given a heads up by those who = unknowing. Personally I think an occasional post = boresome and pain in the A** subjects help many of our new silent = making mistakes that so many seasoned professionals have =made. I mean would we feel bad if someonewas = rod, buy a rod, or purchase goods and are not dealt with fairly. Only to = out later 600 list members think it is OK to let newbies waste their = money just because the "old timers are tired of talking about it" and = the list if some do mention taboo topics. I have saved alot of time and effort by= "clued in" by several "old time" list members, you know who you are and = you. Adam Vigil P.S.- If you dont agree with me thats = favor to you I will tell you where you get a great deal on a chinese fly = (sarcasm for those who dont get it) from splitcane@t-online.de Sat Sep 1 11:37:49 2001 f81GbmZ11955 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:37:48 -0500 id 15dDmF-0000XG-05; Sat, 01 Sep 2001 18:37:47 +0200 fwd05.sul.t-online.com Subject: Re: new topics and old Adam Vigil schrieb: Haventyou ever been new to a hobby or pastime only to do something and laterregret it, wishing someone had clued you in. Often times when people arenew they should be given a heads up by those who know. Yes it is history I think an occasional post on a tired, boresome and pain in the A** subjectshelp many of our new silent brothers from making mistakes that so many mean would we feel bad if someone was to send a rod, buy a rod, or purchasegoods and are not dealt with fairly. Only to find out later 600 list membersthink it is OK to let newbies waste their time and money just because the"old timers are tired of talking about it" and might quit the list if some have saved alot of time and effort by being "clued in" by several "oldtime" list members, you know who you are and I thank dont agree with me thats O.K. as a favor to you I will tell you where youget a great deal on a chinese fly rod! (sarcasm for those who dont getit)[:)] have fun folks and watch your chinese neighbour =;-)Michael from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Sep 1 11:45:59 2001 f81GjvZ12380 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:45:58 -0500 Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id R98NHAT5; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:43:27 -0400 Subject: Tips Archive Guys (and Gals), I've updated the tips archive at http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/to segment out the different topics. Also, I've added a submission forif you want to submit a tip that way. Also, if you have a tip in thearchive and have a web site, send me the web site url and I'll add alink to your site. Thanks a lot. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://member.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from caneman@clnk.com Sat Sep 1 11:49:15 2001 f81GnEZ12684 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:49:14 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:14:36 -0500 Subject: restoration ferrules Listers,Just FYI, someone has a ferrule listing on eBay. One set looks like itcould possibly be a set of NS soldered welt, and the other 9 sets look likethe rolled welt stepdown NPB Montague ferrules to me from the pics, butright now their going pretty cheap. Might take a look if you're intorestorations and need ferrules. May get the entire lot for the cost of oneset... never can tell... anyways, the url for it ishttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1185634980 Oh, nope, don't know the seller and no financial interest. Later,Bob from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sat Sep 1 12:56:22 2001 f81HuMZ14906 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:56:22 -0500 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Antique Road Show There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod on Ebay right now that was appraisedat the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand those Bastards might be worth alittle bit of money now... Dave There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod onEbay right now that was appraised at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand thoseBastards Dave from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sat Sep 1 12:57:29 2001 f81HvSZ15099 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 12:57:28 -0500 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Shakespeare http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1185905147Here's the URL Here's the URL from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 13:10:39 2001 f81IAcZ15755 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 13:10:38 -0500 01 Sep 2001 11:10:40 PDT Subject: Re: Shakespeare curious! curious! curious! as andy would say. --- Davesrods wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1185905147 Here's the URL ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from Vtbamboo@cs.com Sat Sep 1 13:52:09 2001 f81Iq8Z17263 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 13:52:09 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 14:52:08 -0400 Subject: (no subject) I'm thinking about buying a metalworking lathe to build reel seats and ferrules. Would 12" between centers be enough or should I spend the extra (Twice the Price) money and go for 20" between centers? I currently own a wood lathe with 48" between centers that I use for sanding cork. Also what if any tooling should also be purchased? metalworking lathe to build reel seats and ferrules. Would 12" between centers be enough or should I spend theextra (Twice the Price) money and go for 20" between centers? I currentlyown a wood lathe with 48" between centers that I use for sanding cork. Alsowhat if any tooling should also be purchased? from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Sep 1 15:47:39 2001 f81KlcZ20262 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 15:47:38 -0500 by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Sat, 01 Sep 2001 16:46:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I for one am glad to see some of the discussion about The Bamboo FlyrodMagazine. Personally I never subscribed, but like some others I purchasedcopies at a local flyshop. What I want to say is (soapbox mode on) this: We have an even better resource available to us now in PowerfibersOnline Magazine. Bob Maulucci has busted his butt to provide us thisresource, but from what I am seeing we are not supporting his efforts as wewould have supported this character with The Bamboo Flyrod Magazine. Personally I feel we should be purchasing ad space, and providingarticles for Bob Maulucci and Powerfibers. Give this some thought and seeif you concur with me. Someone told me a long time ago that when a door got closed to us, anothersurely opens up. Read PowerFibers, purchase ad space to help keep it going, and please submitarticles for consideration. (Soapbox Mode OFF) Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine David, Good luck on your purchase, but I'll be surprised if you see any magazines. Not to pick on you in any way, but this might be a good time to encouragenewcomers to the list to at least scan the archives for subjects that interest them. Now that we have a new BFRM thread started, I'm just hopeful we will not start another GG or TA thread! Welcome to the list, David. You'll find lots of information here. Some of it is good. All of it is worth at least as much as you pay for it. Heck some of the information is worth twice what it costs! All joking aside, this list has become a big part of the daily routines of a few hundred pretty good souls. Glad to have you aboard. Harry "David A. Streight" wrote: Sure hope I see some magazines for my money... --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sat Sep 1 17:09:22 2001 f81M9HZ21708 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:09:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Joe,I agree. I know Bob and how much work he puts into the mag, rodmaking and work/real life, for me there would not be enough hours in the day! I think we all need to give Bob Maulucci a big thanks for his massive efforts with Power Fibers Joseph A Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536716-493-2637 Joe, Bob and how much work he puts into the mag, rodmaking and work/real life, for me there would not be enough hours inthe massive efforts with Power Fibers www.geneseevalleyrods.com Portageville,NY 14536 from jojo@ipa.net Sat Sep 1 17:23:29 2001 f81MNTZ22040 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:23:29 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:23:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Binder question I turn mine with a handwheel, though have considered motorizing it with afoot pedal control, and probably will if I ever get time. I have no problemwith fine tips, as the heads do not twist the tip, but they will wallow itaround a might, and scare you to death the first time this happens, thoughnothing that can't be straightened. I use the small 16/4 glace cotton thread from Golden Witch for both heat treating and glue up, as I heat set theadhesive. M-D drill)? How does that binder handle fine tip sections? What sort of binding cord do you use? Thanks, Jason from jojo@ipa.net Sat Sep 1 17:26:30 2001 f81MQTZ22298 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:26:30 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:26:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Was this *really* necessary? ;o) M-D Website shows several issues from last year available. Have not seen =any mags in fly shops. Anyone read winter 2000 mag?Thanks,Chris Was this *really* = ;o) M-D Raine Website shows several issues from last year = mag?Thanks,Chris from frank.haran@sympatico.ca Sat Sep 1 17:30:34 2001 f81MUYZ22565 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:30:34 -0500 Subject: RE: new topics and old Hi,I agree with Adam. I am a newbie "silent brother'' who was oblivious to theBamboo Fly Rod magazine story. I am therefore glad that the subject cameupagain thus preventing me from making the mistake of purchasing themagazine. I am currently in the process buying the rod making tools and putting myworkshop together. This list server, powerfibers online mag. and thevarious other web sites are proving invaluable to me at this time. Keep up the lively discussion/debate, Frank.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 12:23 PM Subject: new topics and old Havent you ever been new to a hobby or pastime only to do something andlater regret it, wishing someone had clued you in. Often times when peopleare new they should be given a heads up by those who know. Yes it is history Personally I think an occasional post on a tired, boresome and pain in theA** subjects help many of our new silent brothers from making mistakesthatso many seasoned professionals have made. I mean would we feel bad if someone was to send a rod, buy a rod, orpurchase goods and are not dealt with fairly. Only to find out later 600list members think it is OK to let newbies waste their time and money just because the "old timers are tired of talking about it" and might quit thelist if some do mention taboo topics. I have saved alot of time and effort by being "clued in" by several "oldtime" list members, you know who you are and I thank you. Adam Vigil P.S.- If you dont agree with me thats O.K. as a favor to you I will tellyou where you get a great deal on a chinese fly rod! (sarcasm for those whodont get it) Hi, magazine. currently in the process buying the rod making tools and putting my = web sites are proving invaluable to me at this time. up the lively discussion/debate, Frank. VigilSent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 12:23 = oldHavent you ever been new to a hobby = only to do something and later regret it, wishing someone had clued = Often times when people are new they should be given a heads up by = know. Yes it is history for many but it also could be a future mistake = unknowing. Personally I think an occasional post = boresome and pain in the A** subjects help many of our new silent = made. I mean would we feel bad if someone = rod, buy a rod, or purchase goods and are not dealt with fairly. Only = out later 600 list members think it is OK to let newbies waste their = money just because the "old timers are tired of talking about it" and = quit the list if some do mention taboo topics. I have saved alot of time and effort = "clued in" by several "old time" list members, you know who you are = thank you. Adam Vigil P.S.- If you dont agree with me thats = favor to you I will tell you where you get a great deal on a chinese = (sarcasm for those who dont get =it) from jojo@ipa.net Sat Sep 1 17:37:40 2001 f81MbdZ22897 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 17:37:39 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:37:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Antique Road Show Maybe the appraisal was given in Mexican Pesos -- approx. $ 360.00 M-D There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod on Ebay right now that was =appraised at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand those Bastards might =be worth a little bit of money now... Dave Maybe the appraisalwas = Mexican Pesos -- approx. $ 360.00 M-D There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod= right now that was appraised at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand = Dave from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Sep 1 18:04:06 2001 f81N45Z23605 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:04:05 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Sat, 1 Sep 2001 20:00:45 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: new topics and old --------------77D5C63DEBE8E225036A16B3 Adam,you bring a up a very good point. I remember seeing a lot more postsatone time from some of the more "Learned" among us, many of which can't bebotheredwith newbie questions or even valid questions from some of the moreseasoned on thelist.Cudos to the ones who have continued to pass on their experience andcontribute to this list! I myself have been slacking a bit as I know I have hadpeople request things like tapers or pictures and I sometimes forget (orhave justbeen too busy) to reply (sorry guys, please remind me if I've promisedsomething andnot followed through).One thing to keep in mind though, some of the best tips/advice I havepicked up on this list has come not from the "Pros" but from guys juststrugglingthrough trying to learn what they can! Perhaps that is the problem that "TheMightyQuiet Ones" have, they sit all high and mighty absorbing the praise andrespect ofall of us all the time not contributing except when it is in their interest,maybethey figure they know all there is to know about our craft?? I hope I neverreachthat ego-pinicle. Shawn Adam Vigil wrote: Havent you ever been new to a hobby or pastime only to do something andlaterregret it, wishing someone had clued you in. Often times when people arenew theyshould be given a heads up by those who know. Yes it is history for manybut italso could be a future mistake for the unknowing. Personally I think anoccasionalpost on a tired, boresome and pain in the A** subjects help many of ournew silentbrothers from making mistakes that so many seasoned professionals havemade. I meanwould we feel bad if someone was to send a rod, buy a rod, or purchasegoods andare not dealt with fairly. Only to find out later 600 list members think it isOKto let newbies waste their time and money just because the "old timers aretired oftalking about it" and might quit the list if some do mention taboo topics. Ihavesaved alot of time and effort by being "clued in" by several "old time" listmembers, you know who you are and I thank you. Adam Vigil P.S.- If youdont agreewith me thats O.K. as a favor to you I will tell you where you get a greatdeal ona chinese fly rod! (sarcasm for those who dont get it) --------------77D5C63DEBE8E225036A16B3 Adam, bringa up a very good point. I remember seeing a lot more posts at one time from some of the more "Learned" among us, many of which can't bebotheredwith newbie questions or even valid questions from some of the moreseasonedon the list. theones who have continued to pass on their experience and contribute to thislist! I myself have been slacking a bit as I know I have had people request been too busy) to reply (sorry guys, please remind me if I've promisedsomething and not followed through). tokeep in mind though, some of the best tips/advice I have picked up on thislist has come not from the "Pros" but from guys just struggling throughtrying to learn what they can! Perhaps that is the problem that "The MightyQuiet Ones" have, they sit all high and mighty absorbing the praise andrespect of all of us all the time not contributing except when it is intheir interest, maybe they figure they know all there is to know aboutour craft?? I hope I never reach that ego-pinicle. Shawn Adam Vigil wrote: Haventyou ever been new to a hobby or pastime only to do something and laterregret it, wishing someone had clued you in. Often times when people arenew they should be given a heads up by those who know. Yes it is history I think an occasional post on a tired, boresome and pain in the A** subjectshelp many of our new silent brothers from making mistakes that so many mean would we feel bad if someone was to send a rod, buy a rod, or purchasegoods and are not dealt with fairly. Only to find out later 600 list membersthink it is OK to let newbies waste their time and money just because the"old timers are tired of talking about it" and might quit the list if some have saved alot of time and effort by being "clued in" by several "oldtime" list members, you know who you are and I thank dont agree with me thats O.K. as a favor to you I will tell you where youget a great deal on a chinese fly rod! (sarcasm for those who dont getit) --------------77D5C63DEBE8E225036A16B3-- from jojo@ipa.net Sat Sep 1 18:09:25 2001 f81N9PZ23892 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:09:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Tips Archive Todd, Here's one for you. I thought of this today as I was selecting a culm. Everwonder the minimum space between nodes you need to be able to use aChevy 6or a spiral node pattern, and still have maximum distance from the ferruleto the first node, and from the last node to the tip, on a two piece rod?All these assume a node spacing of 1.5", or 9" total, and you'll have onenode possibly under ferrule, and one possibly under tip. 7'0" rod -- 16.5" min. from the first node to the second, subsequent nodespacing will be greater7'6" rod -- 17.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc.8'0" rod -- 18.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc.8'6" rod -- 19.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc.9'0" rod -- 20.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc. M-D Guys (and Gals), I've updated the tips archive at http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/to segment out the different topics. Also, I've added a submission forif you want to submit a tip that way. Also, if you have a tip in thearchive and have a web site, send me the web site url and I'll add alink to your site. Thanks a lot. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://member.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from bamboorods@saber.net Sat Sep 1 18:11:37 2001 f81NBaZ24145 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:11:36 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 16:11:36 -0700 Subject: Pearsalls silk, Java gone Shoulda put it on eBay and had all you guys bid on it. Probably could =have got enough per spool to warrant re-wrapping that Shakespear rod! =Hey, did I tell you that the Pearsalls was examined at the Dunsmuir Road =Show and was valued at......: Shoulda put it on eBay and had all= at the Dunsmuir Road Show and was valued at......:<)Chris from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Sep 1 18:32:17 2001 f81NWCZ24722 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:32:12 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Sat, 1 Sep 2001 20:29:03 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Best tips? Ralph,I would say one of the most detrimental obstacles to beginning rodmakersis thinking that they MUST have this tool, or they MUST have this material, orso andso said you MUST build using this technique.Until I stopped working to afford only the best plane and the fanciestbinder and realized that hey sometimes you can cut a corner and still getwhere youwant to be I had a hard time to get going. Once I threw caution to the windbuiltsome forms, franken tools and stopped trying to keep up with the Jonesthings goteasier and I started putting out rods, at first,n ot the best but it left roomforimprovement.Sure there are standard tools, techniques, materials we all use but if itgets you building, go ahead and use the Polyurethane glue instead of theUrac, useupholstery thread instead of binding cord, take a small guys ferrules or reelseatinstead of the "Brand name ones" build some of your own tools! Heck if youget realadventurous you could even use a run of the mill $10 block plane!!Don't expect perfect dimensions, flawless finish and a timeless classic onyourfirst rod, what you can expect is a perfectly fishable rod that you can takegreatpride in knowing you built and lessons learned for your next rod!Shawn Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac from lblan@provide.net Sat Sep 1 18:42:08 2001 f81Ng6Z25060 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:42:06 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 19:42:05 -0400 Subject: RE: new topics and old Once upon a time, we seemed to have more than our share of "learned ones".As I look at the posts, I can only wonder what has happened. In some cases Iknow... they grew tired of flames, or perhaps they grew tired of the endlessposts on those few subjects so near our hearts and just decided to buildrods. Perhaps we lost one or two who don't want to read posts describingthem as you have. Keep in mind that it was the fact that they willinglyshared that we even have this list. By the way, I've never met anexperienced maker who thought he knew everything. Many are opinionated,andknow that what they do works for them. The fact remains that prior tovenueslike this list, many of those makers operated in a near vacuum, where thesharing of thoughts and ideas just did not take place the way it so freelydoes today. Each was forced to develop tools and methods that worked forthem. That, btw, is one of the reasons there are so many different methods Your post is spot on in one regard. The list does indeed need new members togrow and flourish. Your own experiences are probably not unusual. One of thebest ways to learn *anything* is to try to teach it to someone else. Youvery quickly gain an insight into what you don't know. Larry Blan-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:07 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: new topics and old Adam,you bring a up a very good point. I remember seeing a lot moreposts at one time from some of the more "Learned" among us, many ofwhichcan't be bothered with newbie questions or even valid questions from someofthe more seasoned on the list.Cudos to the ones who have continued to pass on their experienceand contribute to this list! I myself have been slacking a bit as I know Ihave had people request things like tapers or pictures and I sometimesforget (or have just been too busy) to reply (sorry guys, please remind meif I've promised something and not followed through).One thing to keep in mind though, some of the best tips/advice Ihave picked up on this list has come not from the "Pros" but from guys juststruggling through trying to learn what they can! Perhaps that is theproblem that "The Mighty Quiet Ones" have, they sit all high and mightyabsorbing the praise and respect of all of us all the time not contributingexcept when it is in their interest, maybe they figure they know all thereis to know about our craft?? I hope I never reach that ego-pinicle. Shawn Adam Vigil wrote: Havent you ever been new to a hobby or pastime only to do something andlater regret it, wishing someone had clued you in. Often times when peopleare new they should be given a heads up by those who know. Yes it is history I think an occasional post on a tired, boresome and pain in the A** subjectshelp many of our new silent brothers from making mistakes that so manyseasoned professionals have made. I mean would we feel bad if someone wastosend a rod, buy a rod, or purchase goods and are not dealt with fairly. Onlyto find out later 600 list members think it is OK to let newbies waste theirtime and money just because the "old timers are tired of talking about it"and might quit the list if some do mention taboo topics. I have saved alotof time and effort by being "clued in" by several "old time" list members,you know who you are and I thank you. Adam Vigil P.S.- If you dont agreewith me thats O.K. as a favor to you I will tell you where you get a greatdeal on a chinese fly rod! (sarcasm for those who dont get it) look at the posts, I can only wonder what has happened. In some cases I = they grew tired of flames, or perhaps they grew tired of the endless = those few subjects so near our hearts and just decided to build rods. = lost one or two who don't want to read posts describing them as you = in mind that it was the fact that they willingly shared that we even = knew everything. Many are opinionated, and know that what they do works = those makers operated in a near vacuum, where the sharing of thoughts = develop tools and methods that worked for them. That, btw, is one of the = there are so many different methods for doing the same =task. post is spot on in one regard. The list does indeed need new members to = flourish. Your own experiences are probably not unusual. One of the best = learn *anything* is to try to teach it to someone else. You very quickly = insight into what you don't know. LarryBlan = PineoSent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:07 = VigilCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:Re: = you = up a very good point. I remember seeing a lot more posts at one time = of the more "Learned" among us, many of which can't be bothered with = questions or even valid questions from some of the more seasoned on = = who have continued to pass on their experience and contribute to this = myself have been slacking a bit as I know I have had people request = busy) to reply (sorry guys, please remind me if I've promised = thing = in mind though, some of the best tips/advice I have picked up on this = come not from the "Pros" but from guys just struggling through trying = what they can! Perhaps that is the problem that "The Mighty Quiet = they sit all high and mighty absorbing the praise and respect of all = the time not contributing except when it is in their interest, maybe = figure they know all there is to know about our craft?? I hope I never = = Havent you ever been new to a = pastime only to do something and later regret it, wishing someone = you in. Often times when people are new they should be given a heads = those who know. Yes it is history for many but it also could be a = in the A** subjects help many of our new silent brothers from making = mean = bad if someone was to send a rod, buy a rod, or purchase goods and = dealt with fairly. Only to find out later 600 list members think it = let newbies waste their time and money just because the "old timers = tired of talking about it" and might quit the list if some do = have = of time and effort by being "clued in" by several "old time" list = favor to you I will tell you where you get a great deal on a chinese = it) from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 1 18:58:00 2001 f81NvxZ25522 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:57:59 -0500 ;Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:57:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine from what happened to the rest of us I think you can kiss your moneygoodbye. Jack from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Sat Sep 1 19:06:04 2001 f82063Z25934 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 19:06:03 -0500 Subject: regarding node spacing and charts Neat stuff, M-D.Have you ever seen the Winston Waters video? What is the deal with thechartGlenn Brackett has when he is splitting out the culms? Does anyone out thereuse something like that? (BTW, the clip is usually available from WesternFly Fisher. Their pdf format magazine has it in the Winston ad.http://www.westernflyfisher.com/) It is a great magazine, what I aspire towith Power Fibers. CHeck it out.Thank to my buddies who said such nice stuff. I appreciate it immensely, butI have no comment on that thread.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tips Archive Todd, Here's one for you. I thought of this today as I was selecting a culm. Everwonder the minimum space between nodes you need to be able to use aChevy 6or a spiral node pattern, and still have maximum distance from the ferruleto the first node, and from the last node to the tip, on a two piece rod?All these assume a node spacing of 1.5", or 9" total, and you'll have onenode possibly under ferrule, and one possibly under tip. 7'0" rod -- 16.5" min. from the first node to the second, subsequent nodespacing will be greater7'6" rod -- 17.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc.8'0" rod -- 18.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc.8'6" rod -- 19.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc.9'0" rod -- 20.5" min. from the first node to the second, etc. M-D Guys (and Gals), I've updated the tips archive at http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/to segment out the different topics. Also, I've added a submission forif you want to submit a tip that way. Also, if you have a tip in thearchive and have a web site, send me the web site url and I'll add alink to your site. Thanks a lot. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://ttalsma.bizland.com/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://member.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from sniderja@email.uc.edu Sat Sep 1 19:27:03 2001 f820R2Z26348 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 19:27:02 -0500 Subject: Re: new topics and old Yes, but their wisdom is stored on the rodmakers archives and readilyavailable.J. SniderAt 08:07 PM 09/01/2001 -0400, Shawn Pineo wrote: Adam, you bring a up a very good point. I remember seeing a lot moreposts at one time from some of the more "Learned" among us, many ofwhichcan't be bothered with newbie questions or even valid questions from someofthe more seasoned on the list. Cudos to the ones who have continued to pass on their experienceand contribute to this list! I myself have been slacking a bit as I know Ihave had people request things like tapers or pictures and I sometimesforget (or have just been too busy) to reply (sorry guys, please remind meif I've promised something and not followed through). One thing to keep in mind though, some of the best tips/advice Ihave picked up on this list has come not from the "Pros" but from guysjuststruggling through trying to learn what they can! Perhaps that is theproblemthat "The Mighty Quiet Ones" have, they sit all high and mighty absorbingthepraise and respect of all of us all the time not contributing except when itis in their interest, maybe they figure they know all there is to know aboutour craft?? I hope I never reach that ego-pinicle. Shawn Adam Vigil wrote: Havent you ever been new to a hobby or pastime only to do something andlater regret it, wishing someone had clued you in. Often times when peopleare new they should be given a heads up by those who know. Yes it ishistory PersonallyI think an occasional post on a tired, boresome and pain in the A**subjectshelp many of our new silent brothers from making mistakes that so manyseasoned professionals have made. I mean would we feel bad if someonewas tosend a rod, buy a rod, or purchase goods and are not dealt with fairly.Onlyto find out later 600 list members think it is OK to let newbies wastetheirtime and money just because the "old timers are tired of talking about it"and might quit the list if some do mention taboo topics. I have saved alot of time and effort by being "clued in" by several "old time" list members, youknow who you are and I thank you. Adam Vigil P.S.- If you dont agree withmethats O.K. as a favor to you I will tell you where you get a great deal on achinese fly rod! (sarcasm for those who dont get it) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Sep 1 20:39:20 2001 f821dJZ27649 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 20:39:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I think we have seen the last of MM.. He and I used to talk all the time and I thought we had become friends but all of a sudden he just disappeared from the face of the earth. I guess I was one of the lucky ones because I got all the issues that came out including some doubles. I also was in receipt of two BBFR Magazine hats. I paid for 3 years and only got the one. Oh yeh he also gave me a brand new copy of Claude Kreiders book. I wish he would have been more honest with us all as I think he would have gotten more help in his efforts for this. I know there were a few other people on the list that also kept in contact with Mark and maybe they can give some insight.Bret I think we have seen the last of MM.. He and I used to talk all the timeand I thought we had become friends but all of a sudden he just disappeared from because I got all receipt of would have been more honest with us all as I think he would have gotten more helpin his that also kept in contact with Mark and maybe they can give some insight.Bret from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Sep 1 22:32:59 2001 f823WvZ29307 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 22:32:57 -0500 UAA00389; Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I agree, Bobs magazine is awesome. I hope everyone can give him support in hisefforts and are downloading Powerfibers. I think it a good thing to let hisadvertisers know you saw them in Powerfibers. I can assure you it helps hima lot and cost you nothing. Adam Vigil-----Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I for one am glad to see some of the discussion about The Bamboo FlyrodMagazine. Personally I never subscribed, but like some others I purchasedcopies at a local flyshop. What I want to say is (soapbox mode on) this: We have an even better resource available to us now in PowerfibersOnline Magazine. Bob Maulucci has busted his butt to provide us thisresource, but from what I am seeing we are not supporting his efforts as we would have supported this character with The Bamboo Flyrod Magazine. Personally I feel we should be purchasing ad space, and providingarticles for Bob Maulucci and Powerfibers. Give this some thought and seeif you concur with me. Someone told me a long time ago that when a door got closed to us,anothersurely opens up. Read PowerFibers, purchase ad space to help keep it going, and please submit articles for consideration. (Soapbox Mode OFF) Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 9:32 PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine David, Good luck on your purchase, but I'll be surprised if you see any magazines. Not to pick on you in any way, but this might be a good time to encourage newcomers to the list to at least scan the archives for subjects that interest them. Now that we have a new BFRM thread started, I'm just hopeful we will not start another GG or TA thread! Welcome to the list, David. You'll find lots of information here. Some of it is good. All of it is worth at least as much as you pay for it. Heck some of the information is worth twice what it costs! All joking aside, this list has become a big part of the daily routines of a few hundred pretty good souls. Glad to have you aboard. Harry "David A. Streight" wrote: Sure hope I see some magazines for my money... --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from timklein@qwest.net Sat Sep 1 23:07:49 2001 f8247mZ29870 for ; Sat, 1 Sep 2001 23:07:48 -0500 (65.100.171.6) Subject: Re: Bamboo fly rod magazine If nothing else, Mark seems to have gotten the chat room up and running! (we could all plan a time to meet there for a real, live bitch and moan =session about how much money we all gave him) ---Tim BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no- repeat;COLOR: =#000000; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT; FONT-SIZE: 12pt} If nothing else, Mark seems to have = room up and running! (we could all plan a time to meet there= live bitch and moan session about how much money we all gave =him) ---Tim from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Sep 2 00:33:27 2001 f825XPZ01396 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 00:33:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo fly rod magazine I don't know MM nor had any dealings with him which beyond a couple of emails about something I can't remember means I really have no right to say anything relating to him, add to that reading what people I know and have a high regard for have come right out and said but I'd hate to think he had the best of intentions, got way over his head and couldn't deal with the fallout.Then again, I have a soft spot for TA too so what do I know? Tony At 10:06 PM 9/1/01 -0600, Tim Klein wrote: If nothing else, Mark seems to have gotten the chat room up and running! (we could all plan a time to meet there for a real, live bitch and moan session about how much money we all gave him) ---Tim /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Sep 2 01:05:07 2001 f82656Z01892 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 01:05:06 -0500 f8264rJ04307; Subject: Re: Antique Road Show Horse faeces! Peter Subject: Antique Road Show There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod on Ebay right now that was =appraised at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand those Bastards might =be worth a little bit of money now... Dave Horse faeces! Peter ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, September 02, = AMSubject: Antique Road =Show There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod= right now that was appraised at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand = Dave from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Sep 2 08:40:56 2001 f82DeuZ05870 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 08:40:56 - Subject: Re: Sv: Rod Stress Graphs Carsten To modify a rod for a larger line, and get the same stresscurve, the dimensions increase more as you move from the tip.The stress curve is accounting for the rod "supporting" the additional bamboo (and line and maybe a heavier ferrule), so the farther down the rod you go, from tip toward the handle, the more there is to support. I just took a Payne 102 from the archives and increased it froma 5 to 6wt. To get the same stress curve needed only 0.004 extraathe tip, 0.009 at the ferrule (48 inches) and 0.014 at the handle.I hope this makes sense. That doesn't answer the question which is right, a constant increaseor this increasing addition. But it seems intuitive to me thatjust adding the same amount all along the rod will result in a slowerrod. I may be wrong.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: I happen to agree with Mark and have used stress curvessince the famous explanation by Sir D years ago of howthey are explained. This is why I still am looking for an answer to the question ofhow come one line size up or down is a jump of 0.01 - 0.012inches when calculated by hexrod. Come on You matemathicians out there - lets have a word fromthe wise. Am I really the only one who wonders? regards, carsten jorgensen www.daniaflyrods.com ----- Original Message ----- Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:31 PMSubject: Re: Rod Stress Graphs-- Discertation length reply!!!! Group, Like Bob Nunley, I believe that there is a definite correlation between the stress graph and how a rod casts, at least in the lengths and line weights that I have worked. My early rods were build with the idea of determining what type of taper I preferred. I build t 7' 4 wt Wayne's Sir "D" -- high stress at tip and with Wayne's roll cast hinge; Garrisons's 7' 4 wt 201 -- a straight taper without a swell; and the 7'2" 4 wt Driggs River -- from the para family. These rods are all very distinctive in their casting. Subsequent rods have confirmed that the stress curve is able to provide someprediction how a rod casts after you have developed some experience. The stresscurve tries to integrate the line weight, ferrule weights and bamboo weight into a prediction of the static deformation of a beam. As such it provides muchmore information of a rod's performance than simply looking at the dimension graph. I suppose with experience that a dimension graph could provide avery experienced person with an intuitive feel for the behavior of the rod. I'm not there yet. For me the stress graph is the best indicator of how a rod will behave in my hand. Bob Milward is correct that the Garrison math does not predict how a rodwill be stressed under actual casting conditions. Unfortunately, although hehas greatly increased our understanding of bamboo rods, he does not provideus with a practical mathematical design alternative. Bob's solution "taper design by comparison" is just what most people seem to do. I use thestress graph as a point of departure or mathematical reference point as thegraph does, in my experience, have some empirical relationship to how the rodcasts. Mark Cole from stoltz10@home.com Sun Sep 2 11:44:11 2001 f82GiAZ08023 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 11:44:10 -0500 femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: test from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Sun Sep 2 12:28:58 2001 f82HSuZ08932 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:28:56 -0500 KAA09549 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 10:28:54 -0700 Subject: Which rods shall I build? I have decided to make 6 rods for sale in my flyshop and am wondering whichtapers I should build? I think my customers would be interested in 3- 5weights in lengths from 6 1/2- 7 1/2 feet, but I should have at least one 9'rod in the rack. My personal preference is for a faster action rod (forbamboo) and most of my customer are currently hurling graphite. Of coursemy potential customers might like something slower, but if the rods don'tsell, I'll be fishing them or giving the away. I would appreciate any suggestions as to tapers to use. Do any of you havea taper you wouldn't mind sharing or suggesting from the archives? I'vebuilt a half dozen tapers; Paul Young Perfectionist, a Granger Victory, aPayne 98 and the 97, and a couple of Montagues I received for repairs. Ihave restored, repaired and made tips for a number of others, but I haven'tfound a taper that has knocked my socks off yet. I have heard a lot aboutthe Sir "D" and it is on my list of rods to try out. Thanks for your help. JeremyNevada City Anglers from channer@frontier.net Sun Sep 2 13:08:36 2001 f82I8ZZ09691 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:08:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? Jeremy;Build any of the Dickerson tapers, it has been my experience that guysused to graphite will like them better than most of the other tapers.People experienced with bamboo may prefer Leonard and Payne tapers, butto me they don't seem to have quite as much "muscle" as the Dickersons.If I were you, I wouldn't bother making any 9' rods, only us workingstiffs have the arm for them, 8'6" is as long as I have made any rodsand I did my best to talk the customers out of them. Hope this helps.John Jeremy Gray wrote: I have decided to make 6 rods for sale in my flyshop and am wonderingwhichtapers I should build? I think my customers would be interested in 3-5weights in lengths from 6 1/2- 7 1/2 feet, but I should have at least one 9'rod in the rack. My personal preference is for a faster action rod (forbamboo) and most of my customer are currently hurling graphite. Ofcoursemy potential customers might like something slower, but if the rods don'tsell, I'll be fishing them or giving the away. I would appreciate any suggestions as to tapers to use. Do any of you havea taper you wouldn't mind sharing or suggesting from the archives? I'vebuilt a half dozen tapers; Paul Young Perfectionist, a Granger Victory, aPayne 98 and the 97, and a couple of Montagues I received for repairs. Ihave restored, repaired and made tips for a number of others, but Ihaven'tfound a taper that has knocked my socks off yet. I have heard a lot aboutthe Sir "D" and it is on my list of rods to try out. Thanks for your help. JeremyNevada City Anglers from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sun Sep 2 13:32:54 2001 f82IWrZ10275 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:32:53 -0500 Sun, 2 Sep 2001 14:32:54 -0400 Subject: spray finishing instead spray. Just wrapped and sprayed the butt section and I am inclinedto think I'm going to have a mess. Not a big problem compared to some ofthe other problems in this first rod but I am wondering how you guys set upto spray. Are you hanging them vertically in your cabinet or spraying themhorizontally? What sort of tips or tricks do you have for getting a goodfinish when spraying? ThanksTim from tball@sault.com Sun Sep 2 14:12:04 2001 f82JC3Z11200 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 14:12:03 -0500 Subject: Which Rods? Jeremy, for my 2 cents worth, I like the Young Para 14 and 15. Tom in Trout Lake from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Sep 2 14:37:14 2001 f82JbDZ11753 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 14:37:13 -0500 Sun, 2 Sep 2001 20:37:08 +0100 Subject: Re: spray finishing Tim, And now for something completely different ! I have never sprayed but I remember finishing some of my early rods bysimply masking off the ferrules and then taping a hanging loop to thehandle of the butt section and tying a loop to the tip ring/guide of thetop. I then POURED the varnish from a jug down each rod section and collectedthe excess varnish in a glass jar ( for recyclng ).Make sure the floorarea is well covered for the inevitable mishap , I used old newspapers.Then promptly hang each section in your drying cabinet ( which should bevery close to where you are working to minimise atmospheric /airbornecontaminants, i.e bits ! )after blowing off any excess varnish that may/will collect in the guides/rings.Have no doubt this method despite it's crudety does produce a veryacceptable finish and one that after three coats with a little rubbingdown in between is very, very acceptable to all but the most discerningeye.Go on give it a try, I can almost guarantee you will not be at alldissapointed with the end result.......good luck.......Paul Note; make sure the wife and kids, dogs and cats etc are aware of whatyou are doing and make sure they keep well away from your work areaduring the pouring. Tim Wilhelm wrote: instead spray. Just wrapped and sprayed the butt section and I am inclinedto think I'm going to have a mess. Not a big problem compared to some ofthe other problems in this first rod but I am wondering how you guys set upto spray. Are you hanging them vertically in your cabinet or spraying themhorizontally? What sort of tips or tricks do you have for getting a goodfinish when spraying? ThanksTim from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 2 16:19:32 2001 f82LJVZ13549 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:19:32 -0500 ;Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:19:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? Jeremy, My favorites are the Driggs River Special and Dickerson 8013. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Sep 2 16:25:52 2001 f82LPqZ13878 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:25:52 -0500 f82LPnT27522; Subject: Re: spray finishing Tim, To tell you the truth the dip tube is probably the most painfree way offinishing a rod. The easy way is to go to home depot or lowes and buy thecheap clear protective tubes for flouresent lights. Walk down the isle andget a little $3 brass valve from plumbing and put a cap on it. Stick it onthe tube and have a go at it. Just let the section dry in the tube. Easy Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: spray finishing tube instead spray. Just wrapped and sprayed the butt section and I am inclined to think I'm going to have a mess. Not a big problem compared to some ofthe other problems in this first rod but I am wondering how you guys set up to spray. Are you hanging them vertically in your cabinet or spraying them horizontally? What sort of tips or tricks do you have for getting a goodfinish when spraying? ThanksTim from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Sep 2 16:54:43 2001 f82LshZ14487 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:54:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Which Rods? The Para 15 is awesome. The Para 15 is awesome. from jojo@ipa.net Sun Sep 2 17:46:45 2001 f82MkiZ15497 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 17:46:44 -0500 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 18:46:37 -0400 Subject: Re: spray finishing Tim, I recall that George Aldrich sprayed his rods. You might check the archives M-D tube instead spray. Just wrapped and sprayed the butt section and I am inclined to think I'm going to have a mess. Not a big problem compared to some ofthe other problems in this first rod but I am wondering how you guys set up to spray. Are you hanging them vertically in your cabinet or spraying them horizontally? What sort of tips or tricks do you have for getting a goodfinish when spraying? ThanksTim from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Sep 2 18:05:54 2001 f82N5rZ16004 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 18:05:53 - Subject: Re: Sv: Rod Stress Graphs In a message dated 9/2/1 1:42:06 PM, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Frank - IMHO, you are exactly correct. Think about it. An even increase of .004 will increase the tip of a typical taper over 10%, a huge difference. The same .004 at the butt causes an increase of a bit more than 1%, No one could feel the difference. The same principle applys to thickness tolerances. I have long felt that we should express them as percents, not thousandths. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Sep 2 18:13:56 2001 f82NDsZ16318 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 18:13:55 -0500 f82NDlJ91211; Subject: Re: Antique Road Show Faeces! Subject: Re: Antique Road Show Faeces! ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 03, = AMSubject: Re: Antique Road =Show from edriddle@mindspring.com Sun Sep 2 18:20:26 2001 f82NKPZ16751 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 18:20:25 -0500 "Tim Wilhelm" , Subject: Re: spray finishing Adam:Believe you meant to type "drip" instead of "dip".Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: spray finishing Tim, To tell you the truth the dip tube is probably the most painfree way offinishing a rod. The easy way is to go to home depot or lowes and buy thecheap clear protective tubes for flouresent lights. Walk down the isle andget a little $3 brass valve from plumbing and put a cap on it. Stick it onthe tube and have a go at it. Just let the section dry in the tube. Easy Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Tim Wilhelm Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 11:27 AMSubject: spray finishing tube instead spray. Just wrapped and sprayed the butt section and I am inclined to think I'm going to have a mess. Not a big problem compared to some of the other problems in this first rod but I am wondering how you guys set up to spray. Are you hanging them vertically in your cabinet or spraying them horizontally? What sort of tips or tricks do you have for getting a good finish when spraying? ThanksTim from cristantr@home.com Sun Sep 2 18:30:42 2001 f82NUfZ17166 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 18:30:42 -0500 femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: test Test CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Test from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Sep 2 19:04:43 2001 f8304gZ17864 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:04:42 -0500 f8304gT15797; "Tim Wilhelm" , Subject: Re: spray finishing Nope, Dip tube is correct sir! A contraption devised by the mind of D. Hayashida.No drips here! Adam----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: spray finishing Adam:Believe you meant to type "drip" instead of "dip".Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:25 PMSubject: Re: spray finishing Tim, To tell you the truth the dip tube is probably the most painfree way offinishing a rod. The easy way is to go to home depot or lowes and buy the cheap clear protective tubes for flouresent lights. Walk down the isle and get a little $3 brass valve from plumbing and put a cap on it. Stick it on the tube and have a go at it. Just let the section dry in the tube. Easy Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Tim Wilhelm Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 11:27 AMSubject: spray finishing drip tube instead spray. Just wrapped and sprayed the butt section and I am inclined to think I'm going to have a mess. Not a big problem compared to some of the other problems in this first rod but I am wondering how you guys set up to spray. Are you hanging them vertically in your cabinet or spraying them horizontally? What sort of tips or tricks do you have for getting a good finish when spraying? ThanksTim from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Sep 2 19:07:35 2001 f8307YZ18165 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:07:34 -0500 f8307Q103274; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:07:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? Finished up a Wayne C. 6' 3 wt. Cast it today, it is one sweetlittle rod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Steve Trauthwein wrote: Jeremy, My favorites are the Driggs River Special and Dickerson 8013. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Sep 2 19:08:03 2001 f83082Z18335 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:08:02 -0500 f83083T24566 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 17:08:04 -0700 Subject: Sorry Ed, Drip tube correction Just read my last post and it is DRIP tube. Man I have to get a mask =when I sand. To much epoxy in the air I am starting to see colors. Adam Just read my last post and it isDRIP tube. Man I have to get a mask when I sand.= epoxy in the air I am starting to see colors. Adam from cristantr@home.com Sun Sep 2 19:11:56 2001 f830BtZ18686 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:11:55 -0500 femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sun, 2 Sep 2001 17:11:49 -0700 Subject: RE: Which rods shall I build? One of my favorites is the Young Midge. Give it a shot. R.C. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? Finished up a Wayne C. 6' 3 wt. Cast it today, it is one sweetlittle rod.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Steve Trauthwein wrote: Jeremy, My favorites are the Driggs River Special and Dickerson 8013. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Sep 2 19:13:26 2001 f830DPZ18943 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:13:25 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:10:03 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? Jeremy,my first question would be.... what do most of your customersexpect from a rod. Are the predominantly brook trout fisherman, or perhapssteelhead are thestaple fish in your area. Are the majority of your clients bass fisherman? Ifsalmonare the main fare then we are in a whole different class of rod. Are yousurrounded smallstream 20-30 foot cast land?? Perhaps you live in an area where you have amixture ofcustomers?I would look at all these factors before I made a suggestion. It's all amatter of demographics.Shawn Jeremy Gray wrote: I have decided to make 6 rods for sale in my flyshop and am wonderingwhichtapers I should build? I think my customers would be interested in 3-5weights in lengths from 6 1/2- 7 1/2 feet, but I should have at least one 9'rod in the rack. My personal preference is for a faster action rod (forbamboo) and most of my customer are currently hurling graphite. Ofcoursemy potential customers might like something slower, but if the rods don'tsell, I'll be fishing them or giving the away. I would appreciate any suggestions as to tapers to use. Do any of you havea taper you wouldn't mind sharing or suggesting from the archives? I'vebuilt a half dozen tapers; Paul Young Perfectionist, a Granger Victory, aPayne 98 and the 97, and a couple of Montagues I received for repairs. Ihave restored, repaired and made tips for a number of others, but Ihaven'tfound a taper that has knocked my socks off yet. I have heard a lot aboutthe Sir "D" and it is on my list of rods to try out. Thanks for your help. JeremyNevada City Anglers from pcollin@rochester.rr.com Sun Sep 2 19:53:56 2001 f830ruZ20032 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:53:56 -0500 f830qoX25371 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 20:52:50 -0400 Subject: stain Is there a good way to give a darker color to a blank that is already =made? Tried regular wood stain - no good. I believe ammonium carbonate =only works while heat treating. Cooking will wreck the glue. Any =suggestions? Must it involve tainting the varnish? Peter Collin Is there a good way to give a darker = varnish? PeterCollin from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Sep 2 21:31:16 2001 f832VGZ21593 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 21:31:16 -0500 (authenticated) Sun, 2 Sep 2001 19:24:22 -0700 Subject: Re: stain --------------2204FAACFDAEC1F8BECF3DCC Peter, Good question. I've had some slight success coloringblanks and splices on refinish jobs with stain. It doesseem to take forever to "soak in" but it eventually dries.I always cover it with some sort of finish though. Minwaxmakes a "stain pen" in dark mahogany color that has worked Other responses guys?? Harry "Peter A. Collin" wrote: Is there a good way to give a darker color to a blank thatis already made? Tried regular wood stain - no good. Ibelieve ammonium carbonate only works while heattreating. Cooking will wreck the glue. Any suggestions?Must it involve tainting the varnish? Peter Collin --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------2204FAACFDAEC1F8BECF3DCC Peter, a try. "Peter A. Collin" wrote: Isthere a good way to give a darker color to a blank that is already Collin --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------2204FAACFDAEC1F8BECF3DCC-- from cattanac@wmis.net Sun Sep 2 23:04:36 2001 f8344ZZ23146 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 23:04:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Stress Graphs--Discertation length reply!!!! post with this - I sat in the Clubhouse today having a chat with Paul =Young on rod taper design - Paul Young the potter and not the ghost of =the other that is. In the talk - a couple things that surface here on =the list were talked about - one - there is no magic in rod tapers - no =matter what a person has to cast many rods to appreciate the variety =that is there - getting close to that variety of rods can be difficult = matter what design methodology one choses to use - it takes time and = The good news here is that - things are far far better to the =newcomer today then say 20 years ago - yet even as then - there are the =different ways of practically every step of rodmaking - including design =- Some of us - I for example - feel that I use works to certain limits =- but yet I fail in my ablility to define those limits - the only thing =that I am sure of is this -I was a rotten golfer in college - and some thrity years later I =would still be a rotten golfer were I golfing - Whether I was golfing =with an entry level set of club or a custom made set - I would be a =rotten golfer - and the reason I would be such a rotten golf today if I =were still golfing is simple - I was never successful at golf because I =was never willing to apply enough time and effort to learn what I needed = that = bring to the list let me start this post with this - I sat in the = today having a chat with Paul Young on rod taper design - Paul Young the = and not the ghost of the other that is. In the talk - a couple things = surface here on the list were talked about - one - there is no magic in = tapers - no matter what a person has to cast many rods to appreciate the = that is there - getting close to that variety of rods can be difficult = - depending on their location. And the second is this - that no matter = design methodology one choses to use - it takes time and produced rods = the association and the limits. here = things are far far better to the newcomer today then say 20 years ago - = as then - there are the different ways of practically every step of = only thing that I am sure of is this - - and some thrity years later I would still be a rotten golfer = golfing - Whether I was golfing with an entry level set of club or a = set - I would be a rotten golfer - and the reason I would be such a = today if I were still golfing is simple - I was never successful at golf = needed to learn . . . . . . . . from goodaple@tcac.net Sun Sep 2 23:13:17 2001 f834DHZ23556 for ; Sun, 2 Sep 2001 23:13:17 -0500 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: stain I have tinted my varnish with an amber tint to darken the varnish on a =few rods. Nothing dramatic but it does darken the rod a little with =progressive thin coats. You can get the amber tint from violin supply =houses. Make sure to know whether your varnish is oil or spirit based =when ordering. Good luck, Randall. NW AR. Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:27 PMSubject: Re: stain Good question. I've had some slight success coloring blanks and =splices on refinish jobs with stain. It does seem to take forever to ="soak in" but it eventually dries. I always cover it with some sort of =finish though. Minwax makes a "stain pen" in dark mahogany color that = Is there a good way to give a darker color to a blank that is =already made? Tried regular wood stain - no good. I believe ammonium =carbonate only works while heat treating. Cooking will wreck the glue. =Any suggestions? Must it involve tainting the varnish? Peter Collin I have tinted my varnish with an amber= darken the varnish on a few rods. Nothing dramatic but it does darken = little with progressive thin coats. You can get the amber tint from = supply houses. Make sure to know whether your varnish is oil or spirit = when ordering. Good luck, Randall. NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Harry= Cc: Rodmakers Sent: Sunday, September 02, = PMSubject: Re: stain Is there a good way to give a = Collin-- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." = from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Sep 3 02:39:08 2001 f837d7Z26776 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:39:07 -0500 Mon, 3 Sep 2001 00:39:04 -0700 Mon, 03 Sep 2001 07:39:04 GMT Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? FILETIME=[8197DF10:01C1344B] I would add to Shawns excellent post that a good place to start is with what YOU use to fish with.A.J. From: Shawn Pineo CC: Rodmakers Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build?Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 21:16:03 -0400 Jeremy,my first question would be.... what do most of your customers expect from a rod. Are the predominantly brook trout fisherman, or perhaps steelhead are thestaple fish in your area. Are the majority of your clients bass fisherman? If salmonare the main fare then we are in a whole different class of rod. Are you surrounded woods smallstream 20-30 foot cast land?? Perhaps you live in an area where you havea mixture ofcustomers?I would look at all these factors before I made a suggestion. It's all amatter of demographics.Shawn Jeremy Gray wrote: I have decided to make 6 rods for sale in my flyshop and am wondering which tapers I should build? I think my customers would be interested in 3- 5weights in lengths from 6 1/2- 7 1/2 feet, but I should have at least one 9' rod in the rack. My personal preference is for a faster action rod (forbamboo) and most of my customer are currently hurling graphite. Of course my potential customers might like something slower, but if the rods don't sell, I'll be fishing them or giving the away. I would appreciate any suggestions as to tapers to use. Do any of you have a taper you wouldn't mind sharing or suggesting from the archives? I'vebuilt a half dozen tapers; Paul Young Perfectionist, a Granger Victory, a Payne 98 and the 97, and a couple of Montagues I received for repairs. Ihave restored, repaired and made tips for a number of others, but I haven't found a taper that has knocked my socks off yet. I have heard a lot about the Sir "D" and it is on my list of rods to try out. Thanks for your help. JeremyNevada City Anglers _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from tapani.salmi@iobox.fi Mon Sep 3 03:14:12 2001 f838EBZ27267 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 03:14:11 -0500 Subject: Bamboo in Finland/les f838EBZ27268 _ _ _Joka viikko uusia loistavia soitto€€ni€ ja logoja osoitteessa www.iobox.fi! from tapani.salmi@iobox.fi Mon Sep 3 03:30:32 2001 f838UVZ27642 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 03:30:31 -0500 Subject: Bamboo in Finland/Le Tonkinois varnisch f838UVZ27643 Dear GroupAs several other newbies I would say many thanks to the list for manyvaluable tips, advices etc. I started with Wayne C's Book, have made fourbamboo rods during last winter and collected some knowledge from bamboobuilding. I also made home-page about bamboo rod buildinghttp://www.peukalo.pp.fi/ in Finnish language (dont try to understand,Finnish is a relative only to Hungarian!) In Finland we have only few buildersbut we have one very useful feature - in almost every house there is a sauna- a room heated with stone-owen and almost perfect for heat-treating ofrods! Therefore I hope that new builders would be starting in the future!Now there is a new product here in ads: Le Tonkinois varnish, seehttp://www.tonkinois.com/. I did not find it in Archive, any ecperience on it regardsTapani Salmi _ _ _Joka viikko uusia loistavia soitto€€ni€ ja logoja osoitteessa www.iobox.fi! from danny.twang@pd.no Mon Sep 3 04:36:36 2001 f839aZZ28414 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 04:36:35 -0500 Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:36:36 +0200 Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:36:35 +0200 Subject: Re: Bamboo in Finland/Le Tonkinois varnisch TERVE!! welcome to the club! danny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Sep 3 05:47:33 2001 f83AlVZ29120 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 05:47:31 -0500 f83AlLJ77218; Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? Jeremy You know, I am not a very experienced rod maker, nor a terribly skilled one;but I have made a few rods, including copies of Jim Payne's Canadian Canoe,Lyle Dickerson's Guide Special, and another 8'6" Dickerson in 6 weight (theother two are 7 weights, or at least to me they are). I will never make another rod over 8'0", nor preferably over 5-weight,though I would think about a parabolic 6 weight. It's a very subjectivething, I know, but to me the big area in which the bamboo rods shine is in3,4 &5 weights between 6'0" and 8'0"; they can be either fast or slowaccording to preference. I think that a 7'6" 5 weight Jim Payne is the rod that God made the bambooexpressly to build! And in my opinion, He fishes one as well! Peter ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Which rods shall I build? I have decided to make 6 rods for sale in my flyshop and am wondering which tapers I should build? I think my customers would be interested in 3- 5weights in lengths from 6 1/2- 7 1/2 feet, but I should have at least one 9' rod in the rack. My personal preference is for a faster action rod (forbamboo) and most of my customer are currently hurling graphite. Ofcoursemy potential customers might like something slower, but if the rods don'tsell, I'll be fishing them or giving the away. I would appreciate any suggestions as to tapers to use. Do any of you have a taper you wouldn't mind sharing or suggesting from the archives? I'vebuilt a half dozen tapers; Paul Young Perfectionist, a Granger Victory, aPayne 98 and the 97, and a couple of Montagues I received for repairs. Ihave restored, repaired and made tips for a number of others, but I haven't found a taper that has knocked my socks off yet. I have heard a lot aboutthe Sir "D" and it is on my list of rods to try out. Thanks for your help. JeremyNevada City Anglers from cezeb@arnet.com.ar Mon Sep 3 05:53:07 2001 f83Ar5Z29413 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 05:53:05 -0500 "RODMAKERS" Subject: unsuscribe UNSUSCRIBE UNSUSCRIBE from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Sep 3 07:40:35 2001 f83CeYZ00387 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 07:40:34 -0500 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 08:40:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Sorry Ed, Drip tube correction Adam/Listmembers:I was reluctant to post the correction until I remembered going down the ="wrong road" about a year ago as a result of a typo in the Archives. Thanks to all for your help on my planing form steel bars question. I'm =now in the draw-filing stage. Also, the posting of "Tips" for newbies =is a great idea and welcomed addition to the List.Ed Subject: Sorry Ed, Drip tube correction Just read my last post and it is DRIP tube. Man I have to get a mask =when I sand. To much epoxy in the air I am starting to see colors. Adam Adam/Listmembers:I was reluctant to post the correction = remembered going down the "wrong road" about a year ago as a result of a = the Archives. = posting of "Tips" for newbies is a great idea and welcomed addition to = List.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Sunday, September 02, = PM correction Just read my last post and it is =DRIP tube. Man I have to get a mask when I = epoxy in the air I am starting to see colors. Adam from bosierra@netpath.net Mon Sep 3 08:09:13 2001 f83D9CZ00888 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 08:09:13 -0500 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:09:05 -0400 Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Sep 3 09:02:24 2001 f83E2NZ02130 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:02:23 -0500 (authenticated) Mon, 3 Sep 2001 06:55:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Which rods shall I build? Amen!! Rev. Boyd Peter McKean wrote: I think that a 7'6" 5 weight Jim Payne is the rod that God made the bambooexpressly to build! And in my opinion, He fishes one as well! Peter --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Sep 3 09:14:22 2001 f83EELZ02539 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:14:21 -0500 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:14:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Sv: Rod Stress Graphs Danny - I would be very cautions about making an absolute statement such as "increase the diameter 10% to go up a line size". If I wanted to go up one line size, and maintain the rod's action, I would use Hexrod. I think it will get you closer than anything else. Where you can get into trouble with Hexrod, or any other method for that matter, is making big leaps. If you have found a 6 foot three weight that you like, that doesn't necessarily mean that it will translate into a 9 1/2 foot salmon rod that you will also like. There are variables like density that are not compensated for. Also, everyone conveniently forgets the human factor in casting. You cannot scale up your arm so easily to handle a heavier rod, nor can you scale it down to avoid overpowering a light one. Therefore, most people should use light rods with stronger butts and faster actions, and go slower with long, heavy rods. As Wayne says, the only way is to put in some time and gain experience. That's the bad news. The good news is that a bunch of smart people have beenfooling around with cane rod tapers for over 100 years, and the possibilities have been pretty thoroughly investigated. If you do your homework, you will find some things you really like. from dr.matro@airmail.net Mon Sep 3 09:59:03 2001 f83Ex2Z03464 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:59:02 -0500 id 15dvBo-000G6K-00; Mon, 03 Sep 2001 09:59:04 -0500 ring.iadfw.net sender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Re: spray finishing Tim I spray. As I am doing primarily refinish/rebuild work and don't have alot of room, spraying works and makes sense for me. I spray horizontaland hang- dry vertical. While spraying, I use a nail driven through ablock of wood to support the tip-top. A cork collett made from an oldgrip is used on the grip/ferrul end to give suppor and and a handle forturning as I spray. I use Helmsman Spar Urethane Clear Gloss and rub outeach coat except the final. For color matched finishes, I blow using anIwata finish gun on a compressor. So far, so good. Hope this helps. Ken from caneman@clnk.com Mon Sep 3 12:18:44 2001 f83HIiZ05867 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:18:44 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:44:13 -0500 Subject: Labor Day Happy Labor Day, Everyone! Bob PS: Now I know why they call it Labor Day... cause I'm working! from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Sep 3 12:32:13 2001 f83HWCZ06436 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:32:12 -0500 Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:32:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo in Finland/les FILETIME=[5C22B4A0:01C1349E] Hello Tapani, Welcome to the list! In 1997 I fished for salmon on the Teno river in Ut=sjoki. I was with Bill Waara and his son Bill. We had a great trip and =I have always wanted to return. Bill was my mentor and great friend. I =hope you find some friends to build rods with. It is much more fun when = I took Finnish lessons for awhile but like anything you don't use, it is =all but forgotten. I hope we can meet some day. John Long ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo in Finland/les _ _ _Joka viikko uusia loistavia soitto=E4=E4ni=E4 ja logoja osoitteessa www.i=obox.fi! Hello = lessons for awhile but like anything you don't use, it is all but forgott= John = ----- Original Message ----- From: Tapani SalmiSent: Monday, September 03, 20014:1= rodmakers@wugate.wu=stl.edu Subject: Bamboo inF= lois=tavia soitto=E4=E4ni=E4 ja logoja osoitteessawww.iobox.fi! from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Sep 3 12:45:07 2001 f83Hj6Z06942 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:45:06 -0500 Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:45:03 -0700 Subject: Re: spray finishing FILETIME=[295AC1F0:01C134A0] I had good luck with a pour finish but instead of pouring, I used a food =baster (when my wife was out). You really need good lighting though... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: spray finishing Tim, And now for something completely different ! I have never sprayed but I remember finishing some of my early rods bysimply masking off the ferrules and then taping a hanging loop to thehandle of the butt section and tying a loop to the tip ring/guide of thetop. I then POURED the varnish from a jug down each rod section and collectedthe excess varnish in a glass jar ( for recyclng ).Make sure the floorarea is well covered for the inevitable mishap , I used old newspapers.Then promptly hang each section in your drying cabinet ( which should bevery close to where you are working to minimise atmospheric /airbornecontaminants, i.e bits ! )after blowing off any excess varnish that may/will collect in the guides/rings.Have no doubt this method despite it's crudety does produce a veryacceptable finish and one that after three coats with a little rubbingdown in between is very, very acceptable to all but the most discerningeye.Go on give it a try, I can almost guarantee you will not be at alldissapointed with the end result.......good luck.......Paul Note; make sure the wife and kids, dogs and cats etc are aware of whatyou are doing and make sure they keep well away from your work areaduring the pouring. Tim Wilhelm wrote: tube instead spray. Just wrapped and sprayed the butt section and I am incl= ined to think I'm going to have a mess. Not a big problem compared to some= of the other problems in this first rod but I am wondering how you guys se= t up to spray. Are you hanging them vertically in your cabinet or spraying = them horizontally? What sort of tips or tricks do you have for getting a go= od finish when spraying? ThanksTim I had goodluc=k with a pour finish but instead of pouring, I used a food baster (when m= ----- Original Message ----- From: paul.blakley Sent: Sunday, September 02, 20013:38 P= Cc:rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: spray finishing= different !=I have never sprayed but I remember finishing some of my earlyro=ds bysimply masking off the ferrules and then taping a hanging loop t=o thehandle of the butt section and tying a loop to the tip ring/guid=e of thetop.I then POURED the varnish from a jug down eachro=d section and collectedthe excess varnish in a glass jar ( for recycl=ng ).Make sure the floorarea is well covered for the inevitable misha=p , I used old newspapers.Then promptly hang each section in your dry=ing cabinet ( which should bevery close to where you are working to m=inimise atmospheric /airbornecontaminants, i.e bits ! )after blowing =off any excess varnish that may/will collect in the guides/rings.=Have no doubt this method despite it's crudety does produce averyacc=eptable finish and one that after three coats with a little rubbingdo=wn in between is very, very acceptable to all but the most discerning=eye.Go on give it a try, I can almost guarantee you will not be at al=ldissapointed with the end result.......good luck.......PaulN=ote; make sure the wife and kids, dogs and cats etc are aware of what=you are doing and make sure they keep well away from your workareadu= first= han= Tim from OSEGAL@glcc.com Mon Sep 3 12:59:26 2001 f83HxPZ07374 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:59:25 -0500 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Sep 2001 14:01:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Labor Day Thank you and the same to you!! Oscar PS: So am I!! Thank you and the same to you!! Oscar from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Sep 3 13:20:01 2001 f83IK0Z07998 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:20:00 -0500 Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:19:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Antique Road Show FILETIME=[0977AA10:01C134A5] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Antique Road Show Horse faeces! Peter Subject: Antique Road Show There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod on Ebay right now that was appraised=at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand those Bastards might be wortha=little bit of money now... Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: PeterMcKean Sent: Sunday, September 02,20= rodwrapp@swbe=ll.net Cc:Rodmakers@wugate.=wustl.edu Subject: Re:Antiq= ----- Original Message ----- From: Davesrods Sent: Sunday, September02=, 2001 3:49 AM Subject:Anti=que Road Show Ther=e is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod on Ebay right now that was appraised at =the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand those Bastards might be worth a lit= Dave= from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Sep 3 13:31:21 2001 f83IVKZ08467 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:31:20 -0500 Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:31:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Best tips? FILETIME=[9EE94DF0:01C134A6] On your first rod it may not sink in how important straightening is. The= ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Best tips? Ralph,I would say one of the most detrimental obstacles to beginning =rod makersis thinking that they MUST have this tool, or they MUST have this materia=l, or so andso said you MUST build using this technique.Until I stopped working to afford only the best plane and the fa=nciestbinder and realized that hey sometimes you can cut a corner and still get=where youwant to be I had a hard time to get going. Once I threw caution to the wi=nd builtsome forms, franken tools and stopped trying to keep up with the Jones th=ings goteasier and I started putting out rods, at first,n ot the best but it left=room forimprovement.Sure there are standard tools, techniques, materials we all use b=ut if itgets you building, go ahead and use the Polyurethane glue instead of the =Urac, useupholstery thread instead of binding cord, take a small guys ferrules or =reel seatinstead of the "Brand name ones" build some of your own tools! Heck if yo=u get realadventurous you could even use a run of the mill $10 block plane!!Don't expect perfect dimensions, flawless finish and a timeless clas=sic on yourfirst rod, what you can expect is a perfectly fishable rod that you can t=ake greatpride in knowing you built and lessons learned for your next rod!Shawn Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Hey, everybody - since the list is a little slow, how about a "newbietips" discussion? Here's some that I've picked up along the way thatwould save someone starting up a little grief: 1. Bending only the fat side and not putting any bend into the thinside moves the split back to the middle - splitting cane got enormouslyeasier once I got the hang of this idea! 2. Depth gage calibration cannot be trusted if you use the tip. Setyour calipers to .1155" open and the 60* point will fit just right suchthat dial should read .100". 3. Pay attention to your 60* angles when you rough out the strips - everything falls into place afterwards based on them. 4. Don't forget to clean up the enamel side before planing close tofinal dimension. 5. Keep your blades sharper than sharp and don't be lazy about keepingthem that way. 6. The hardest part of building your first rod is just gettingstarted. Everything else is easy by comparison! What would you think are the most helpful tips you've picked up alongthe way that would help a newbie along? best to all, mac On yourfirst = ----- Original Message ----- From: Sh=awn Pineo Sent: Saturday,Se= mrmac@tcimet.net Cc:rodmak=ers Subject: Re: Besttips? ning rod makersis thinking that they MUST have this tool, or they MUS= I =stopped working to afford only the best plane and the fanciestbinder =and realized that hey sometimes you can cut a corner and still get where =youwant to be I had a hard time to get going. Once I threw caution to=the wind builtsome forms, franken tools and stopped trying to keep u=p with the Jones things goteasier and I started putting out rods, at =first,n ot the best but it left room =materials we all use but if itgets you building, go ahead and use the=Polyurethane glue instead of the Urac, useupholstery thread instead =of binding cord, take a small guys ferrules or reel seatinstead of th=e "Brand name ones" build some of your own tools! Heck if you get realadventurous you could even use a run of the mill $10 block plane!!&n= nd a timeless classic on yourfirst rod, what you can expect is a perf=ectly fishable rod that you can take greatpride in knowing you built =and lessons learned for your next the l= t= don't= Th= would= from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Sep 3 17:03:22 2001 f83M3MZ12609 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:03:22 - Subject: Re: Sv: Rod Stress Graphs I don't where I got it, but I've always had this formula in my head. A #4rod has a tip of .065" and a 12/64 ferrule, a #5 tip is .070" and a 13/64"ferrule, a #6 has a .080" tip and a 14/64" ferrule, and so on. Also, if yougraph the taper and draw a straight line from tip to butt, the rod will beslow if the slope is low, and stiffer if the slope is "high". After youhave looked at a lot of rod taper graphs these figures make sense. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Sep 3 17:48:17 2001 f83MmGZ13874 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:48:16 -0500 f83MlxJ53916; Subject: Re: Antique Road Show Yep! Peter Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 4:20 AMSubject: Re: Antique Road Show ----- Original Message -----From: Peter McKeanSent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:06 AM Subject: Re: Antique Road Show Horse faeces! Peter Subject: Antique Road Show There is a Shakespeare bamboo flyrod on Ebay right now that was =appraised at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, mand those Bastards might =be worth a little bit of money now... Dave Yep! Peter ----- Original Message ----- John = Cc: RodmakersPost Sent: Tuesday, September 04, = AMSubject: Re: Antique Road =Show ----- Original Message ----- Peter McKeanSent: Sunday, September 02, = AM Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Subject: Re: Antique Road =Show Horse faeces! Peter ----- Original Message ----- = Davesrods Sent: Sunday, September 02, = AMSubject: Antique Road =Show There is a Shakespeare bamboo = right now that was appraised at the Phoenix road show for 3,600, = =Dave from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Sep 3 18:58:16 2001 f83NwFZ16778 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 18:58:15 - Subject: Re: Sv: Rod Stress Graphs RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/3/1 10:03:50 PM, teekay35@interlynx.net writes: Ted - For "average" straight line, or progressive type tapers, you are exactly right, and the numbers you quote are accurate. With parabolics, the numbers change a bit, with the ferrule probably being the next size higher. Looking forward to seeing you and the other Ontarians next week in Roscoe.Anybody arriving thursday should let me know, I'm thinking in terms of a pot of Jambalya (eat your heart out Rev. Boyd :-)) - Tom from jbperez@mi.madritel.es Mon Sep 3 19:02:38 2001 f8402bZ17166 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:02:37 -0500 ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 02:06:16 +0200 Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe from jojo@ipa.net Mon Sep 3 20:24:34 2001 f841OXZ20537 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:24:33 -0500 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:24:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Antique Road Show =A1Mierda del toro! Faeces! toro! Peter McKean Faeces! Grhghlndr@aol.com from thogan@rochester.rr.com Mon Sep 3 20:37:48 2001 f841blZ21246 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:37:48 -0500 f841bhf14650 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:37:43 -0400 Subject: Splitting vs band sawing Could anyone comment on the relative plus/minus of splitting vs =bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would like to hear from = Thanks in AdvanceTaylor Could anyone comment on the relative = splitting vs bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would like to = from others who have tried bandsawing. Thanks in AdvanceTaylor from jojo@ipa.net Mon Sep 3 20:41:00 2001 f841f0Z21590 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:41:00 -0500 for ; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:41:01 -0400 Subject: Re: stain Aniline dyes, AKA spirit stains. It will take several applications, and =use a darker stain than you think you need. If you don't like it you can =use alcohol to remove it, and start over. If you want to tint your =varnish use universal colors -- the kind your paint store uses to tint =paint. M-D Is there a good way to give a darker color to a blank that is already =made? Tried regular wood stain - no good. I believe ammonium carbonate =only works while heat treating. Cooking will wreck the glue. Any =suggestions? Must it involve tainting the varnish? Peter Collin Aniline dyes, AKA spirit= will take several applications, and use a darker stain than you think = If you don't like it you can use alcohol to remove it, and start over. = uses to tint paint. M-D A. Collin Is there a good way to give a darker = varnish? Collin from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Sep 4 06:28:48 2001 f84BSmZ04076 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 06:28:48 -0500 f84BSk103455 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 06:28:46 -0500 Subject: SLC Show If you might be attending the SLC FF Retailersshow, stop by Gudebrod booth 244,And say Hello.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Sep 4 07:26:17 2001 f84CQHZ04982 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 07:26:17 - IAA19380; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Steam bending Frank,You don't need a gizmo/jig for steaming the nodes, only the tea kettle(you don't heat the whole spline with your heat gun before you straightenit, do you?). Get the kettle boiling, heat the node/section you're tryingto straighten.dws. Frank Stetzer wrote: I tried a teakettle with a short piece of radiator hose, leadingto a small (6x8x1 inch) lidded box, which held 4 strips with thenode in question getting blasted by the steam. Apparently it wasnot hot enough to soften the node. The contraption went into myunsuccessful jig pile. Raised the humidity in the basement, though. I average about 4 failed jigs and gizmos for every rod I complete. Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Sep 4 07:57:46 2001 f84CvjZ05649 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 07:57:45 -0500 Tue, 4 Sep 2001 05:57:39 -0700 Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:57:39 GMT Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing FILETIME=[2DA5EE00:01C13541] Hello Taylor: handplaning. Sawed strips are for builder's who are using a powered tapermill. A mill cutter traveling at 7500RPM's will cut cleanly through a node withno tear out or chips of any sort. If you were to saw the strips, they'd end upfairly straight but the nodes still would be crooked. This sawing would lead tobig problems when planing with unavoidable chipping of the nodes. That's whyhand planer's straighten the nodes in the building process. so as to avoid thischipping. You may notice while hand planing, that every once in awhile youhave a strip with a node that just won't plane like it should, with chipping onone side. This is probably because the node was not straightened correctly,You then end up sanding the node on the bad side or turning your planingform around and planing in the opposite direction to correct the problem atthis bad spot. If you saw the strips instead of splitting them, you!'re going to have this problem at every node. Try taking one of your hand result you'd get if you were to saw the strip and then hand plane. splitting vs bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would like to hear from others who have tried bandsawing. Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from patrick.w.coffey@Boeing.com Tue Sep 4 09:54:58 2001 f84EsvZ10999 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:54:57 -0500 JAA22910; HAA01263; f84EsuV23645; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 07:54:56 -0700 "'pcollin@rochester.rr.com'" Subject: RE: stain you can add aniline dye to the varnish and darken the finish instead of thebamboo. In the likely hood of a scratch it's a lot easier to hide if the color isin the finish instead of the wood. If you look at old instruments you'll findthats what they did and the depth of color is beautiful. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 5:55 PM Subject: stain Is there a good way to give a darker color to a blank that is already made? Tried regular wood stain - no good. I believe ammonium carbonate only workswhile heat treating. Cooking will wreck the glue. Any suggestions? Must itinvolve tainting the varnish?Peter Collin from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Tue Sep 4 11:13:54 2001 f84GDqZ15303 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 11:13:53 -0500 id f84GDjX04057 for ; Wed, 5 Sep2001 01:13:45 +0900 (JST) id BAA12950 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 200101:13:43 +0900 (JST) Subject: Deflection, Stress Curve Hi, I made a small analysis among inertia, moment, stress and deflection basedon therod motion which is rotating. It might become any hint for understanding the difference betweenGarrison'sand Milward's stress curve. As it brings several graphs, I put them on my home page at the followingURL.Please visit if you are interested and let me know kindly and GENTLY ifsomething is wrong. To reach to the page, hit "English speaking visitors" link under a banner.You will see the title of "Deflection and Stress Curve analysis" at the topof next page. http://members.tripod.com/maxrod Max from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Tue Sep 4 15:16:45 2001 f84KGiZ28714 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:16:44 -0500 f84KGiH25616 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:16:45 -0700 Subject: Kettle Creek Cane Classic Has anyone heard of a Kettle Creek Cane Classic rod. It is in my shop for aferrule remounting and a new tip. I am having problems with matching theferrule. It is halfway between a 13 and a 14. I could salvage the ferrule from the broken tip. It seems like a nice rod, blond, with maroon wrapsand, NS hardware. Thanks. from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Sep 4 15:53:18 2001 f84KrGZ05525 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:53:16 -0500 Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:53:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing FILETIME=[9A04FA90:01C13583] I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straight many years ago=but the strips do indeed tear at the nodes. What I do now is split the =culm into sixths or eighths then bandsaw them into thirds but I follow th=e existing contours and then do my straightening. I have no problems wha=tsoever with tearing. I guess its just what you get used to. If you do =all this while the strips are still 12 ft. long, you can really maximize =your bamboo. Its not as difficult as you imagine working with 12 footers=. I learned this from Bill Waara who had a magnificient culm he kept for=years just for show. It was about 2 3/4+ diam. with 23 in. node spacing=. He finally used it and got 7- 7 1/2 ft. two tip rods from it. It was =the finest culm I have ever seen. ( from Demerest late 1980's) John Long ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Hello Taylor:It's best that you keep splitting your strips, that's if you're handpla=ning. Sawed strips are for builder's who are using a powered taper mill. =A mill cutter traveling at 7500RPM's will cut cleanly through a node with=no tear out or chips of any sort. If you were to saw the strips, they'd =end up fairly straight but the nodes still would be crooked. This sawing =would lead to big problems when planing with unavoidable chipping of the =nodes. That's why hand planer's straighten the nodes in the building proc=ess. so as to avoid this chipping. You may notice while hand planing, tha=t every once in awhile you have a strip with a node that just won't plane=like it should, with chipping on one side. This is probably because the =node was not straightened correctly, You then end up sanding the node on =the bad side or turning your planing form around and planing in the oppos=ite direction to correct the problem at this bad spot. If you saw the str=ips instead of splitting them, you! 're going to have this problem at eve=ry node. Try taking one of your hand split strips and plane it without f=irst straightening it. This is the same result you'd get if you were to s= Jim Could anyone comment on the relative plus/minus of splitting vs bandsawi= ng strips. I've only split them, but would like to hear from others who h= Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com I have beensa= RODMAKERS@mail.wus=tl.edu Subject: Re: Splittin= kee= p splitting your strips, that's if you're handplaning. Sawed strips are f=or builder's who are using a powered taper mill. A mill cutter traveling =at 7500RPM's will cut cleanly through a node with no tear out or chips of=any sort. If you were to saw the strips, they'd end up fairly straight b=ut the nodes still would be crooked. This sawing would lead to big proble=ms when planing with unavoidable chipping of the nodes. That's why hand p=laner's straighten the nodes in the building process. so as to avoid this=chipping. You may notice while hand planing, that every once in awhile y=ou have a strip with a node that just won't plane like it should, with ch=ipping on one side. This is probably because the node was not straightene=d correctly, You then end up sanding the node on the bad side or turning =your planing form around and planing in the opposite direction to correct=the problem at this bad spot. If you saw the strips instead of splitting=them, you! 're going to have this problem at every node. Try taking one = it. This is the same result you'd get if you were to saw the strip and th=en hand plane. thogan@roche= group" = Splitting = 21:35:36= any=one comment on the relative plus/minus of splitting vs bandsawing strips.=I've only split them, but would like to hear from others who have tried = =Get your FREE download of MSNExp=lorer at http://explor=er.msn.com from rmoon@ida.net Tue Sep 4 16:00:59 2001 f84L0wZ07182 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:00:58 -0500 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Johnwhat on earth did Bill do that I am not doing. I have never been ableto get more than three rods (7 1/2') amd mostly one tipped ones from aculm. I know that I am a little wasteful with the bamboo, but I canhardly believe 7. Ralph from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 16:25:50 2001 f84LPoZ12292 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:25:50 -0500 Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:25:47 PDT Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing thogan@rochester.rr.com,RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu attachment for this purpose. I have not seen it, but it is supposedto be designed to follow the "grain". I have had good luck with someof his other products. No commercial interest. --- John Long wrote: I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straight manyyears ago but the strips do indeed tear at the nodes. What I donow is split the culm into sixths or eighths then bandsaw them intothirds but I follow the existing contours and then do mystraightening. I have no problems whatsoever with tearing. Iguess its just what you get used to. If you do all this while thestrips are still 12 ft. long, you can really maximize your bamboo. Its not as difficult as you imagine working with 12 footers. Ilearned this from Bill Waara who had a magnificient culm he kept node spacing. He finally used it and got 7- 7 1/2 ft. two tip rods from it. It was the finest culm I have ever seen. ( from Demerestlate 1980's) John Long----- Original Message -----From: Jim BureauSent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Hello Taylor:It's best that you keep splitting your strips, that's if you'rehandplaning. Sawed strips are for builder's who are using a poweredtaper mill. A mill cutter traveling at 7500RPM's will cut cleanlythrough a node with no tear out or chips of any sort. If you wereto saw the strips, they'd end up fairly straight but the nodesstill would be crooked. This sawing would lead to big problems whenplaning with unavoidable chipping of the nodes. That's why handplaner's straighten the nodes in the building process. so as toavoid this chipping. You may notice while hand planing, that everyonce in awhile you have a strip with a node that just won't planelike it should, with chipping on one side. This is probably becausethe node was not straightened correctly, You then end up sandingthe node on the bad side or turning your planing form around andplaning in the opposite direction to correct the problem at thisbad spot. If you saw the strips instead of splitting them, you! 'regoing to have this problem at every node. Try taking one of yourhand split strips and plane it without first straightening it.This is the same result you'd get if you were to saw the strip andthen hand plane. Jim From: "taylor hogan" Subject: Splitting vs band sawing Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:35:36 -0400 Could anyone comment on the relative plus/minus of splitting vs bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would like to hear from others who have tried bandsawing. Thanks in Advance Taylor Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Tue Sep 4 20:08:55 2001 f8518sZ10345 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:08:54 -0500 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:08:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Taylor, You'll also find that you have a lot of grain runout by sawing the =strips, which is what causes the problems that Jim addressed. I tried =sawing strips -- once. I found the resulting mess called a blank to be =more trouble than it was worth, and less aesthetic. Just my experience. Yours, and that of others, may differ. Could anyone comment on the relative plus/minus of splitting vs =bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would like to hear from = Thanks in AdvanceTaylor Taylor, You'll also find that you= of grain runout by sawing the strips, which is what causes the problems = addressed. I tried sawing strips -- once. I found the resulting mess = aesthetic. Just my experience. = of others, may differ. hogan Could anyone comment on the relative = of splitting vs bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would = hear from others who have tried bandsawing. Thanks in AdvanceTaylor from thogan@rochester.rr.com Tue Sep 4 20:33:22 2001 f851XLZ11924 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:33:21 -0500 f851WFX05958 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:32:16 -0400 Subject: Guides Has anyone used the Titanium Nitride guides?ThanksTaylor Has anyone used the Titanium guides?ThanksTaylor from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Sep 4 20:44:11 2001 f851iAZ12643 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:44:10 -0500 (authenticated) Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:37:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Guides --------------3D4197F79BD5575066A436A4 Taylor, I used them several years ago on a graphite rod. Ididn't like them. The claims of longevity seemed to bemostly hype to me. They seemed to wear as quickly aschromed guides. I like the bronzed guides from Snake Brand, personally. Harry taylor hogan wrote: Has anyone used the Titanium Nitride guides?ThanksTaylor --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------3D4197F79BD5575066A436A4 Taylor, personally. taylor hogan wrote: Hasanyone used the Titanium Nitride guides?ThanksTaylor --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------3D4197F79BD5575066A436A4-- from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Sep 4 20:54:28 2001 f851sRZ13578 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:54:27 -0500 by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Tue, 04 Sep 2001 21:53:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing I built a jig ala Wise Fisherman's Encyclopedia. I built one rod that =way and it worked fine. The only problem I had was that it was a pain =in the rear to use this by myself. Also make sure you have a very =straight culm to start out with. Used the Morgan Handmill to plane and =no problems with tear outs at nodes etc. Joe Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:07 PMSubject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Taylor, You'll also find that you have a lot of grain runout by sawing the =strips, which is what causes the problems that Jim addressed. I tried =sawing strips -- once. I found the resulting mess called a blank to be =more trouble than it was worth, and less aesthetic. Just my experience. Yours, and that of others, may differ. Could anyone comment on the relative plus/minus of splitting vs =bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would like to hear from = Thanks in AdvanceTaylor I built a jig ala Wise Fisherman's = and no problems with tear outs at nodes etc. Joe other....."What a Great Life". ----- Original Message ----- Jojo =DeLancier group Sent: Tuesday, September 04, = PM sawing Taylor, You'll also find that = lot of grain runout by sawing the strips, which is what causes the = that Jim addressed. I tried sawing strips -- once. I found the = aesthetic. Just my experience. = of others, may differ. taylor hogan Could anyone comment on the = of splitting vs bandsawing strips. I've only split them, but would = hear from others who have tried bandsawing. Thanks in AdvanceTaylor from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Sep 4 21:33:22 2001 f852XLZ16322 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:33:21 -0500 (authenticated) Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:26:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Okay John, Not fair to tease us like that without details... Atleast give us an outline of how you go about it. Harry John Long wrote: I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straightmany years ago but the strips do indeed tear at thenodes. What I do now is split the culm into sixths oreighths then bandsaw them into thirds but I follow theexisting contours and then do my straightening. "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Sep 4 21:47:08 2001 f852l8Z17155 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:47:08 -0500 Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:47:03 -0700 Wed, 05 Sep 2001 02:47:03 GMT Subject: Re: Guides FILETIME=[0B6A67C0:01C135B5] They look pretty but the wear seems to be the same as chrome, D Whitehead had the coating tested when he was setting up the snake brand with MMcCoy. He said the coating was very, very thin.A.J. From: "taylor hogan" Subject: GuidesDate: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:31:15 -0400 Has anyone used the Titanium Nitride guides?ThanksTaylor _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Sep 4 21:59:33 2001 f852xWZ17857 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:59:32 -0500 TAA15499 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:59:31 -0700 Subject: sawing strips Okay, I will try to say this in a way that wont cause a my inbox to catch on =fire from those who like to throw flames. So here goes. Rods when all is said and done look and fish wonderfully. Be it sawed, =split, milled, hand milled, scraped, beveled, hand planned and so on. =Now when we are sawing strips for a rod why is that not indicated. I =mean when a rod is "hand split" "hand planned" it is the first thing in =advertising and told to a customer when checking out a rod. Why do we =not see "machine milled" or "bandsaw cut" when this is how the maker =does his craft? Do not misunderstand me, I do not object to any method. For heaven sake =I cut my cane to pieces to make nodless rods. But is there a stigma to a =rod made today if it is not "hand planned" or "split cane"? And yes I =know they all cast well but why are there not more ads (websites =included) with "machine milled and sawn strips"? Thoughts anyone? Adam VigilP.S - Please if you feel the need to send nasty emails do so only when =you fully understand what was written above. Okay, I will try to say this in a way that = goes. Rods when all is said and done look and= wonderfully. Be it sawed, split, milled, hand milled, scraped, beveled, = planned and so on. Now when we are sawing strips for a rod why is that = indicated. I mean when a rod is "hand split" "hand planned" it is the = Why do we not see "machine milled" or "bandsaw cut" when this is how the = does his craft? Do not misunderstand me, I do not = method. For heaven sake I cut my cane to pieces to make nodless rods. = there a stigma to a rod made today if it is not "hand planned" or "split = And yes I know they all cast well but why are there not more ads = included) with "machine milled and sawn strips"? Thoughts anyone? Adam VigilP.S - Please if you feel the = above. from mrmac@tcimet.net Tue Sep 4 22:51:32 2001 f853pVZ20347 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:51:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Best tips? Shawn, I couldn't agree with you more! All the comments I offereredwere aimed at approach/technique, not hardware. Even at that, I surelydon't disagree I could have thrown in the usual "this works for me, butdo your own thing" disclaimer in good faith with no problem. I, likeyou, did not wait for the ultimate in each and every tool and gizmo, butjumped in and made do with what I could throw together to get the jobdone. My drying cabinet was franken, all the way, as is my heat gunoven.....but they work, and that's the bottom line, we both seem toagree. If any regrets, it's that I didn't work harder to dig up the originalposts out of the archive to provide the true source of credit for the other newbies and hoped to offer some starter ideas to save a littletime and grief along the way in a moment of slow list topics. Some painand suffering of the "hard way" is perhaps a good learning experience,but personally, I don't think you really need it all. The list is agreat, great thing, unique to our time and a true blessing which,without, there would be a whole lot less bamboo around, certainly, aswell as a loss of great comraderie and friendship; both would be sorelymissed. I wonder if Todd would be willing to edit his entries if we came up thetrue originator for the various tips? I wonder if even the firstentries found in the archive truly represent the "originator" of the worthy effort to give the credit where credit was more truly due. best and warm regards, mac Shawn Pineo wrote: Ralph,I would say one of the most detrimental obstacles tobeginning rod makersis thinking that they MUST have this tool, or they MUST have thismaterial, or so andso said you MUST build using this technique. from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 23:19:55 2001 f854JsZ21655 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:19:55 -0500 Tue, 04 Sep 2001 21:19:55 PDT Subject: Gudebrod Classic Twist Thread Anyone know if this thread is silk or nylon? It islisted in Clemens catalog page 72, but the descriptionlacks whether it's silk or nylon. Thanks, Chris M. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 23:37:50 2001 f854bnZ22713 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:37:50 -0500 Tue, 04 Sep 2001 21:37:45 PDT Subject: Re: sawing strips I think it is because rods made by machine areperceived by some of the vocal minority as somethingless than that made manually. Probably similar to handengraved verses lazer engraved sideplates on a fineshotgun or taking your car in to have it hand washedand waxed as opposed to running it through an autocarwash with the hot wax treatment. Something handmade and signed by an individual is generally morevalued then something made through automation,regardless of the final appearance or fishingattributes in the case of a fly rod. That's just myopinion. If I could afford a decent beveler and hadthe skill to successfully tune and run it, I would gothat route for sure. Chris M. --- Adam Vigil wrote: Okay, I will try to say this in a way that wont cause a myinbox to catch on fire from those who like to throwflames. So here goes. Rods when all is said and done look and fishwonderfully. Be it sawed, split, milled, handmilled, scraped, beveled, hand planned and so on.Now when we are sawing strips for a rod why is thatnot indicated. I mean when a rod is "hand split""hand planned" it is the first thing in advertisingand told to a customer when checking out a rod. Whydo we not see "machine milled" or "bandsaw cut" whenthis is how the maker does his craft? Do not misunderstand me, I do not object to anymethod. For heaven sake I cut my cane to pieces tomake nodless rods. But is there a stigma to a rodmade today if it is not "hand planned" or "splitcane"? And yes I know they all cast well but why arethere not more ads (websites included) with"machine milled and sawn strips"? Thoughts anyone? Adam VigilP.S - Please if you feel the need to send nastyemails do so only when you fully understand what waswritten above. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Sep 5 05:27:12 2001 f85ARBZ29011 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 05:27:11 -0500 v4.1.40/v4155. . Clean. Processed in 0.673812 secs); 05 Sep 200110:24:41 -0000 Subject: Re: Guides --------------76047C9E8C51FCF342F9D0B4 I use Titanium Nitride tip tops. I see the Winston rod co. now uses TINguides instead of the chrome plated it used to use (on bamboo).Marty taylor hogan wrote: Has anyone used the Titanium Nitride guides?ThanksTaylor --------------76047C9E8C51FCF342F9D0B4 I use Titanium Nitride tip tops. I see the Winston rod co. now uses TINguides instead of the chrome plated it used to use (on bamboo).Martytaylor hogan wrote: Hasanyone used the Titanium Nitride guides?ThanksTaylor --------------76047C9E8C51FCF342F9D0B4-- from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Sep 5 05:30:00 2001 f85ATxZ29219 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 05:29:59 -0500 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4155. . Clean. Processed in 0.268699 secs); 05 Sep 200110:29:52 -0000 Subject: Re: Gudebrod Classic Twist Thread It's Nylon! Marty Chris McDowell wrote: Anyone know if this thread is silk or nylon? It islisted in Clemens catalog page 72, but the descriptionlacks whether it's silk or nylon. Thanks, Chris M. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Sep 5 06:05:18 2001 f85B5HZ29801 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 06:05:18 -0500 Subject: RE: sawing strips Great start Adam:Man, where is Terry A when we need him.Some would say that handplaning is an amateur method. I would not, but Iwould not want to make a living trying to handplane rods either although Iknow that some great makers (including some of my best friends) dohandplane. Some would say that handplaning is what makes them better. Ihaveno bias against handplaning, I love the feel of the method. However, I likemilling (Hand MIlling?) because of its benefits: accuracy, fluting,versatility, no sharpening, etc....I would propose, however, that historically all the great makers milled orbevelled their strips and the majority of them sawed them. In the battle ofGarrison and the handplaners versus Carlson, Leonard, Dickerson, Jordan,Payne, Jenkins, Edwards, Granger, etc.... I would have to side with thepowered guys. In the hands of a skilled operatot, the mill is a living tool.Maybe what is holding modern makers back is the lack of quality bevellers ormills that they can use to get results. Maybe we rely too much on what wecan buy?Just my opinion, but please blast me on the list if you please. I would lovesome more lively discussion.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: sawing strips Okay, I will try to say this in a way that wont cause a my inbox to catch onfire from those who like to throw flames. So here goes. Rods when all is said and done look and fish wonderfully. Be it sawed,split, milled, hand milled, scraped, beveled, hand planned and so on. Nowwhen we are sawing strips for a rod why is that not indicated. I mean when arod is "hand split" "hand planned" it is the first thing in advertising andtold to a customer when checking out a rod. Why do we not see "machinemilled" or "bandsaw cut" when this is how the maker does his craft? Do not misunderstand me, I do not object to any method. For heaven sake Icut my cane to pieces to make nodless rods. But is there a stigma to a rodmade today if it is not "hand planned" or "split cane"? And yes I know theyall cast well but why are there not more ads (websites included) with"machine milled and sawn strips"? Thoughts anyone? Adam VigilP.S - Please if you feel the need to send nasty emails do so only when youfully understand what was written above. start Adam:Man, where is Terry A when weneed = him. would say that handplaning is an amateur method. I would not, but I = want to make a living trying to handplane rods either although I know = great makers (including some of my best friends) do handplane. Some = that handplaning is what makes them better. I have no bias against = I love the feel of the method. However, I like milling (Hand MIlling?) = would propose, however, that historically all the great makers milled or = bevelled their strips and the majority of them sawed them. In the battle = Garrison and the handplaners versus Carlson, Leonard, Dickerson, Jordan, = Jenkins, Edwards, Granger, etc.... I would have to side with the powered = In the hands of a skilled operatot, the mill is a living tool. Maybe = holding modern makers back is the lack of quality bevellers or mills = buy? my opinion, but please blast me on the list if you please. I would love = more lively discussion. owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Behalf Of Adam VigilSent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001= strips Okay, I will try to say this in a way that = my inbox to catch on fire from those who like to throw flames. So here = goes. Rods when all is said and done look = wonderfully. Be it sawed, split, milled, hand milled, scraped, = planned and so on. Now when we are sawing strips for a rod why is that = indicated. I mean when a rod is "hand split" "hand planned" it is the = Why do we not see "machine milled" or "bandsaw cut" when this is how = does his craft? Do not misunderstand me, I do not = method. For heaven sake I cut my cane to pieces to make nodless rods. = there a stigma to a rod made today if it is not "hand planned" or = cane"? And yes I know they all cast well but why are there not more = (websites included) with "machine milled and sawn =strips"? Thoughts anyone? Adam VigilP.S - Please if you feel the = above. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Sep 5 06:31:32 2001 f85BVUZ00259 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 06:31:31 -0500 f85BVMJ30293; Subject: You are my last desperate hope McDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into that cesspool reliquary of a thing =you call a "brain" and answer me the ultimate trivia question. My =incipient brain rot has expunged the answer from mine, and I cannot =recall enough of the one-word answer even to look it up or to find it on =the web. In several rivers in South America there lives a very small parasitic =fish. Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; perhaps "symbiotic" is =better. The really attractive feature of this fish is that when you go swimming =in the river, it swims up your urethra, gets itself all settled about =half way up, erects its spines and becomes bloody impossible to pull =out. It then causes an intense urethritis and urethral obstruction, as =you might imagine. I want you to understand that this fish is not =exactly a barramundi, but given its lifestyle, how big does it have to =be. This little party trick makes the fish the single biggest cause of =surgical penis amputation in South America, and obviously endears it to =the hearts of thousands of Latino females. In case you are wise to the risk and do not go swimming, but in scorn =choose instead to piss in the river, this little charmer can also swim =up the stream of urine and into your donger ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It seems to my ailing memory that it is =a relatively short name, and that it ends in "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia brain, hopefully not in vain, McKean McDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into = question. My incipient brain rot has expunged the answer from mine, and = recall enough of the one-word answer even to look it up or to find it on = web. In several rivers in South America = very small parasitic fish. Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; = "symbiotic" is better. The reallyattractive = urethra, gets itself all settled about half way up, erects its spines = becomes bloody impossible to pull out. It then causes an intense = urethral obstruction, as you might imagine. I want you to understand = fish is not exactly a barramundi, but given its lifestyle, how big does = to be. This little party trick makes the fish = biggest cause of surgical penis amputation in South America, and = endears it to the hearts of thousands of Latino females. go swimming, but in scorn choose instead to piss in the river, this = charmer can also swim up the stream of urine and into your= ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It = "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia = hopefully not in vain, McKean from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Sep 5 06:33:32 2001 f85BXVZ00436 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 06:33:31 -0500 f85BXTJ30644 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:33:29 Subject: Oops Um, sorry about that, Rodmakers! Quite obviously NOT a communication =intended to be sent to this list! My apologies. No offense intended. Peter Um, sorry about that,Rodmakers! = obviously NOT a communication intended to be sent to this list! My apologies. No offense =intended. Peter from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Sep 5 06:54:43 2001 f85BsgZ00962 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 06:54:42 -0500 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 07:54:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Oops So Peter, Do tell the name of the fish when you learn of its name..... Enquiring minds want to know....... Mark At 10:30 PM 9/5/2001 +1000, you wrote: Um, sorry about that, Rodmakers! Quite obviously NOT a communication intended to be sent to this list! My apologies. No offense intended. Peter from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Sep 5 07:23:45 2001 f85CNiZ01573 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 07:23:44 -0500 id ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:17:56 -0400 id RDBTHZ2Y; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:17:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Best tips? If someone finds that they are credited with a "discovery" and find thatit is just reinventing the wheel, by all means I'd be happy to changethe credit on the site. That is no problem at all. I'm just compilingthe list of tips as they hit the RODMAKERS list. I haven't dug into thearchives (yet!). Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Shawn, I couldn't agree with you more! All the comments I offereredwere aimed at approach/technique, not hardware. Even at that, I surelydon't disagree I could have thrown in the usual "this works for me, butdo your own thing" disclaimer in good faith with no problem. I, likeyou, did not wait for the ultimate in each and every tool and gizmo, butjumped in and made do with what I could throw together to get the jobdone. My drying cabinet was franken, all the way, as is my heat gunoven.....but they work, and that's the bottom line, we both seem toagree. If any regrets, it's that I didn't work harder to dig up the originalposts out of the archive to provide the true source of credit for the other newbies and hoped to offer some starter ideas to save a littletime and grief along the way in a moment of slow list topics. Some painand suffering of the "hard way" is perhaps a good learning experience,but personally, I don't think you really need it all. The list is agreat, great thing, unique to our time and a true blessing which,without, there would be a whole lot less bamboo around, certainly, aswell as a loss of great comraderie and friendship; both would be sorelymissed. I wonder if Todd would be willing to edit his entries if we came up thetrue originator for the various tips? I wonder if even the firstentries found in the archive truly represent the "originator" of the worthy effort to give the credit where credit was more truly due. best and warm regards, mac Shawn Pineo wrote: Ralph,I would say one of the most detrimental obstacles tobeginning rod makersis thinking that they MUST have this tool, or they MUST have thismaterial, or so andso said you MUST build using this technique. -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ home page:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htm genealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm >Fromflyfish@defnet.com Wed Sep 5 08:20:48 2001 Received: from JAA28406 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:20:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: flyfish@defnet.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This Man that sounded painful! I was cringing reading it:)) But it was an interestingread. Do these things live in trout streams? I hope not. Of course I imagine apair of waders would stop them. Especially a pair of Simms LOL. I paid goodmoney for those things :)) Lots of fun to read.:)) Tony Miller ------ BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT } PeterI sure hope you haven't done any swimming in South America =lately. Man that sounded painful! I was cringing readingit:)) But it was an interesting read. Do these things live in read.:)) Tony Miller ------ rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Wed Sep 5 08:22:02 2001 Received: from f85DM2Z04023 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Message-ID: rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN TheCandiru (Vaudellia Cirrhosa), or Carnero Fish, is found only in the Amazon andOranoco Rivers in South America and is attracted to the warmth of urine. Soif youre going anywhere near those 2 rivers, remember not to pee in them.This tiny fish lodges itself in your urethra and flares its barbed fins.Regards, Bob On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Peter McKean wrote: McDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into that cesspool reliquary of a thing youcall a "brain" and answer me the ultimate trivia question. My incipient brainrot has expunged the answer from mine, and I cannot recall enough of theone-word answer even to look it up or to find it on the web. In several rivers in South America there lives a very small parasitic fish.Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; perhaps "symbiotic" is better. The really attractive feature of this fish is that when you go swimming in the river, it swims up your urethra, gets itself all settled about half way up,erects its spines and becomes bloody impossible to pull out. It then causesan intense urethritis and urethral obstruction, as you might imagine. I wantyou to understand that this fish is not exactly a barramundi, but given itslifestyle, how big does it have to be. This little party trick makes the fish the single biggest cause of surgicalpenis amputation in South America, and obviously endears it to the hearts ofthousands of Latino females. In case you are wise to the risk and do not go swimming, but in scornchoose instead to piss in the river, this little charmer can also swim up thestream of urine and into your donger ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It seems to my ailing memory that it is arelatively short name, and that it ends in "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia brain, hopefully not in vain, McKean from Bambootom@aol.com Wed Sep 5 08:33:26 2001 f85DXPZ04712 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:33:25 -0500 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:33:19 - Subject: Planing VS. Machining Just a few thoughts on this subject, as I have used a preliminary mill for a few years now and am currently in the process of the design and building of a true two spindle beveller. For a preliminary mill, the average rodmaker can save a tremendous amount of time by using this type of device to mill the initial 60 degree angle on strips. I converted an old Delta Rockwell wood shaper to do just this. I designed a mechanism that bolted down on the top of the shaper that utilized hold down shoes on either side of the cutters, so that the bamboo strips are rigidly held as they are fed through the cutters (I use a lift cut as opposed to a climb cut - primarily for safety). I use double angle milling cutters, and stack two of them together to get the perfect 60 degree internal angle. They are High Speed Steel, made by Dolfa of Poland, and Cost about 58 dollars a pair. The bevelled edges stay sharp another 5 rods worth. I generally just buy new cutters instead of resharpening, as I have been quoted 45 dollars the pair to resharpen, so I just bite the bullet and get new ones. I soak my strips overnight before milling, as I have found that this gives me a cleaner cut. My strips need additional attention to straightening, squaring up, and sanding the enamel side flat, before I run them through the mill. This may sound like heresy, but when you add machining of any type to bamboo preparation, expect toadd heresy to the process. My shaper turns at 10,000 RPM and gives a niceclean finish after two passes, the second pass done after the fence assembly has been moved closer to the cutters, allowing the second pass removal of about 35 thousandths. I will resoak briefly for the second pass. At this point I like to bind the six strips by hand and allow to dry for a few days before preliminay planing. After preliminary planing to a taper that is 40 thousandths over final dimension, I then bind and heat treat, and follow with final planing. This method, although sounding more complicated than the traditional method, lends itself well if you want to make more than one rod at a time. The stacked milling cutters act as a self centering device that keeps the cut straight and true throu the entire pass. The cutters just cut through those nasty jumps that seem to occur at nodes. I never find any tear out at the nodes when I start to plane. This type of mill is fairly cost effective (I've spent about $500 on the machine and bar stock aluminum for the mill - I wouldn't use wood due to the wetting opf the strips). I can let it sit unused for months and then ready it in about 5 minutes time for use again. The best attribute of this type of mill over a final mill or beveller is that the tolerances don't need to be so razor thin. Anyone contemplating the use of a device to cut to final taper dimension in one or two passes, get ready to do a hell of a lot research about metal maching in general, and about spindles, cutting tools, linear motion control systems, and motor control systems in specific detail. You will need the services of a fully equipped machine shop and a critical eye for running such complicated machinery. Also, a fat checkbook or wallet is an absolute necessity. Hope I've added some light to what promises to be a stimulating topic. Tom McDonnell Just a few thoughts onthis subject, as I have used a preliminary mill for a few years now and am currently in the process of the design andbuilding of a rodmaker can save a tremendous amount of time by using this type of device to millthe wood on the top of the shaper that utilized hold down shoes on either side of thecutters, so that the bamboo strips are rigidly held as they are fed through thecutters (I use a lift cut as opposed to a climb cut - primarily for safety). double angle milling cutters, and stack two of them together to get the made by Dolfa stay sharp resharpening, as I have been quoted 45 dollars the pair to resharpen, soI before strips need additional attention to straightening, squaring up, and sanding theenamel heresy, but when you add machining of any type to bamboo preparation, expectto add a nice clean finish after two passes, the second pass done after the fenceassembly has been moved closer to the cutters, allowing the second pass removal ofabout like to bind the six strips by hand and allow to dry for a few days before thousandths over final dimension, I then bind and heat treat, and followwith complicated than the traditional method, lends itself well if you want to make more than one rod at a The stacked milling cutters act as a self centering device that keepsthe cut cut through those out at the effective (I've spent about $500 on the machine and bar stock aluminum for themill - I sit unused for months and then ready it in about 5 minutes time for use The best attribute of this type of mill over a final mill or beveller is that contemplating the use of a device to cut to final taper dimension in one or two passes, getready to do a hell of a lot research about metal maching in general, and about spindles, cutting tools, linear motion control systems, and motorcontrol equipped machine shop and a critical eye for running such complicated I've added some light to what promises to be a stimulating topic. Tom McDonnell from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 08:50:43 2001 f85DogZ05617 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:50:42 -0500 GAA05474 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 06:50:42 -0700 Subject: strengths of hand planning I have received several very good and informative post on sawing and =milling strips. Now the millers and sawers have spoken up and present a =good case. How about those die hard hand planners? Lets hear as to why =rods should be hand planed. I personally use a beveler and finish with =hand planning. So I have experienced both worlds. Question: Why hand plane? just asking. Adam Vigil I have received several very good and = post on sawing and milling strips. Now the millers and sawers have = present a good case. How about those die hard hand planners? Lets hear = rods should be hand planed. I personally use a beveler and finish with = planning. So I have experienced both worlds. Question: Why hand plane? just =asking. AdamVigil from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Sep 5 09:01:52 2001 238.frontiernet.net [66.133.130.238] (may be forged)) f85E1pZ06397 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:01:52 -0500 Subject: Re: sawing strips Well said Chris, except for the beveler part ; )marketing is marketing. " Band sawn, machine milled custom bamboo flyrods"Someone is likely to think a culm is inserted into the right side of theRod-A-Matic and out the left side comes a rod ready to fish and the processtakes 5 minutes. " Hand planed split bamboo fly rods"Someone is likely to think, jeez, this guy painstakingly split each piece byhand, then planed them with his own hand, wow, this guys must of spentyearson just one. tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: sawing strips I think it is because rods made by machine areperceived by some of the vocal minority as somethingless than that made manually. Probably similar to handengraved verses lazer engraved sideplates on a fineshotgun or taking your car in to have it hand washedand waxed as opposed to running it through an autocarwash with the hot wax treatment. Something handmade and signed by an individual is generally morevalued then something made through automation,regardless of the final appearance or fishingattributes in the case of a fly rod. That's just myopinion. If I could afford a decent beveler and hadthe skill to successfully tune and run it, I would gothat route for sure. Chris M. --- Adam Vigil wrote: Okay, I will try to say this in a way that wont cause a myinbox to catch on fire from those who like to throwflames. So here goes. Rods when all is said and done look and fishwonderfully. Be it sawed, split, milled, handmilled, scraped, beveled, hand planned and so on.Now when we are sawing strips for a rod why is thatnot indicated. I mean when a rod is "hand split""hand planned" it is the first thing in advertisingand told to a customer when checking out a rod. Whydo we not see "machine milled" or "bandsaw cut" whenthis is how the maker does his craft? Do not misunderstand me, I do not object to anymethod. For heaven sake I cut my cane to pieces tomake nodless rods. But is there a stigma to a rodmade today if it is not "hand planned" or "splitcane"? And yes I know they all cast well but why arethere not more ads (websites included) with"machine milled and sawn strips"? Thoughts anyone? Adam VigilP.S - Please if you feel the need to send nastyemails do so only when you fully understand what waswritten above. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Sep 5 09:45:20 2001 f85EjJZ08613 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:45:19 -0500 (authenticated) Wed, 5 Sep 2001 07:38:24 -0700 Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning --------------88C6258617C9FC7B9A0A7835 Adam, I'm convinced that for the amateur, or the beginner,hand planing is just plain simpler. A well-tuned handplaning (or hand milling) operation can do the work asaccurately as any powered beveler, and more accurately thanmany. Hand planing allows small one man operations toproduce workable rods within a few months of beginning theprocess and a few hundred dollars of expenses. To do sowith power tools requires significantly greater investment Even as complicated as we make planing forms sound (andthey aren't REALLY that complicated), a good set of formsstill seems easier to make than a good beveler. So let's do it this way: Advantages of hand planing: Relatively easy set upHighly repeatableShort learning curveGreater safety level for novicesLow cost to make forms ------- Advantages of powered bevelers:Faster for production runsEasier on arthritic joints Both methods are quite capable of producing excellentrods, as others have pointed out. Neither one is inherently"better" than the other. To quote Dennis Miller, "Ofcourse, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." Harry Adam Vigil wrote: I have received several very good and informative post onsawing and milling strips. Now the millers and sawers havespoken up and present a good case. How about those diehard hand planners? --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------88C6258617C9FC7B9A0A7835 Adam, hand milling) operation can do the work as accurately as any poweredbeveler, operations to produce workable rods within a few months of beginning the tools requires significantly greater investment for most folks. sound(and they aren't REALLY that complicated), a good set of forms still seemseasier to make than a good beveler. Advantages of hand planing:Relatively easy set upHighly repeatableShort learning curveGreater safety level for novicesLow cost to make forms------- Advantages of powered bevelers:Faster for production runsEasier on arthritic joints excellent Adam Vigil wrote: Ihave received several very good and informative post on sawing and millingstrips. Now the millers and sawers have spoken up and present a good case.How about those die hard hand planners?--Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." --------------88C6258617C9FC7B9A0A7835-- from anglport@con2.com Wed Sep 5 09:49:28 2001 f85EnQZ08970 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:49:26 -0500 Subject: Something else to worry about Just got this from McAfee: Hope nobody needs it!Art recognize and may contain the following information: Body: Please find attached file for your review. Attachment: README.EXE BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Just got this from McAfee: Hopenobody = it!Art W32/APost@mm ("APost"or "New = WATCH worm. The infected email can come from addresses that recognize and may contain the following = As per your request! Body: Please find attached file for your = look forward to hear from you again very soon. Thank you. = README.EXE from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Sep 5 09:55:28 2001 f85EtRZ09495 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:55:27 -0500 Subject: RE: strengths of hand planning you don't have to invest in a saw or beveller,hand planing takes up less space in the shop.the time spent at the bench is enjoyable. Brad-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 8:51 AM Subject: strengths of hand planning I have received several very good and informative post on sawing andmilling strips. Now the millers and sawers have spoken up and present a goodcase. How about those die hard hand planners? Lets hear as to why rodsshould be hand planed. I personally use a beveler and finish with handplanning. So I have experienced both worlds. Question: Why hand plane? just asking. Adam Vigil don't have to invest in a saw or beveller, planing takes up less space in the shop. time spent at the bench is enjoyable. Brad VigilSent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 8:51 = planningI have received several very good and = post on sawing and milling strips. Now the millers and sawers have = and present a good case. How about those die hard hand planners? Lets = to why rods should be hand planed. I personally use a beveler and = hand planning. So I have experienced both worlds. asking. Adam =Vigil from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 10:10:37 2001 f85FAaZ12181 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:10:36 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Ferrule dimensions Does anyone know of a source for ferrule dimensions, short of purchasingsets of each size? Thanks, Jason from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Sep 5 10:13:29 2001 f85FDSZ12549 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:13:28 -0500 Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Yeh, time at the bench is great. Crank some ACDC and have at it. it. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Sep 5 10:14:56 2001 f85FEuZ12794 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:14:56 - KAA27380 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:14:57 Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning Two gizmos that DO work for me, to make hand planing lesserror prone, are Max Satoh's "slash" jig, which is basicallya 6ft long vise that holds your strip for that first 60 degreeangle, and the plane leveller training wheels that I thinkJohn Bokstrom invented. I modified Max's jig so it closes with a set of hand togglesabout 10 inches apart, instead of bolts. Just takes a minute to clamp a strip in place then get that perfect initial angle. The training wheels look a little dorky but when you get those full-length shavings every pass, with no effort to keep the plane level, you don't mind so much. Just think of it as a (very) poor-mans milling machine. Like everything else, if you hand plane a lot you get good atkeeping angles etc. but if you only make a few rods a year likeme these sorts of jigs help eliminate some mistakes.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from caneman@clnk.com Wed Sep 5 11:03:38 2001 f85G3cZ16950 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:03:38 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions Jason,Go to Chris Bogarts web site... in the Rodmaking class section you'llfind the SuperZ specs... url for the ferrule stuff ishttp://www.shentel.net/canerod/HTML/ClassIndex.html Close to the bottomofthe page you'll see a downloadable PDF document entitled "Super Z PatentInformation - Cleaned up Version (PDF)". That's what you want. Later,Bob ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule dimensions Does anyone know of a source for ferrule dimensions, short of purchasingsets of each size? Thanks, Jason from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Sep 5 11:39:33 2001 f85GdWZ22260 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:39:33 -0500 Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:39:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing FILETIME=[527FF0C0:01C13629] OK, here's the dope. I use a metal cutting bandsaw blade of 14 t.p.i. I=saw butt strips to 1/4" and tips to about 3/16". After splitting the cu=lm into sixes or eighths, I turn the strips sideways and saw off the dams=. from here on I just push the sections thru the saw (enamel side up) ju=st eyeballing each strip. Some sections I saw into thirds and others int=o four strips, just depending on their size.There is an interesting website called Hida Tool. They sell 4,6,8,10,&12=bladed splitters (ala the video Winston Waters) I bought a 6 bladed one=and split a whole bale of culms in a little over an hour. Did it just l=ike Glen B. did it in the video against the brick wall of my house. (Wif=e was out shopping) Works great! You get very equal sections because th=e splitting forces are equal in all directions. It was fun too! John----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Okay John, Not fair to tease us like that without details... Atleast give us an outline of how you go about it. Harry John Long wrote: I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straightmany years ago but the strips do indeed tear at thenodes. What I do now is split the culm into sixths oreighths then bandsaw them into thirds but I follow theexisting contours and then do my straightening. "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- OK, here'sthe= the culm into sixes or eighths, I turn the strips sideways and saw off th= ght a 6 bladed one and split a whole bale of culms in a little over an ho= =You get very equal sections because the splitting forces are equal in all= John ----- Original Message ----- From: HarryBoyd Sent: Tuesday, September 04,2= JNL123141@m=sn.com Cc:RODMAKERS@mail.wu=stl.edu Subject: Re: Splitti= ma= str= ht= from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Sep 5 11:43:57 2001 f85GhuZ23208 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:43:56 -0500 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4155. . Clean. Processed in 2.595385 secs); 05 Sep 200116:43:42 -0000 "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: You are my last desperate hope Look it up in the Bible (McLanes Standard Fishing Encyclopedia). It makesgood reading! Marty rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: The Candiru (Vaudellia Cirrhosa), or Carnero Fish, is found only in theAmazon and Oranoco Rivers in South America and is attracted to thewarmthof urine. So if youre going anywhere near those 2 rivers, remember not topee in them. This tiny fish lodges itself in your urethra and flares itsbarbed fins. Regards, Bob On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Peter McKean wrote: McDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into that cesspool reliquary of a thing youcall a "brain" and answer me the ultimate trivia question. My incipient brainrot has expunged the answer from mine, and I cannot recall enough of theone-word answer even to look it up or to find it on the web. In several rivers in South America there lives a very small parasitic fish.Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; perhaps "symbiotic" is better. The really attractive feature of this fish is that when you go swimming in the river, it swims up your urethra, gets itself all settled about half way up,erects its spines and becomes bloody impossible to pull out. It then causesan intense urethritis and urethral obstruction, as you might imagine. I wantyou to understand that this fish is not exactly a barramundi, but given itslifestyle, how big does it have to be. This little party trick makes the fish the single biggest cause of surgicalpenis amputation in South America, and obviously endears it to the hearts ofthousands of Latino females. In case you are wise to the risk and do not go swimming, but in scornchoose instead to piss in the river, this little charmer can also swim up thestream of urine and into your donger ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It seems to my ailing memory that it is arelatively short name, and that it ends in "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia brain, hopefully not in vain, McKean from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Sep 5 11:49:11 2001 f85GnAZ24201 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:49:10 -0500 Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:49:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing FILETIME=[AD67EC80:01C1362A] Forgot to add that I use roller stands in front and back of the bandsaw t=o help handle the 12 ft. strips. If someone brings a bandsaw to the S.R.=G. I will gladly do a demo. I will also bring the six blade splitter. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Okay John, Not fair to tease us like that without details... Atleast give us an outline of how you go about it. Harry John Long wrote: I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straightmany years ago but the strips do indeed tear at the nodes. What I do now is split the culm into sixths oreighths then bandsaw them into thirds but I follow theexisting contours and then do my straightening. "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- Forgot toadd =that I use roller stands in front and back of the bandsaw to help handle = ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Boyd Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:42 JNL123141@msn.com Cc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing= fair to = I= ; existing contours and then do my straightening."Simon Petersai= http://www.fbcwin.c= from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Sep 5 12:08:33 2001 f85H8WZ26134 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 12:08:32 -0500 Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:08:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing FILETIME=[61ACB020:01C1362D] This was a special culm-almost 3" in diameter. He would split, then saw =into strips less than 1/4" for butts and 3/16" or less for tips. I don't=have the nerve to try and saw that fine. Bill lived thru the depression=and the embargo and could be very thrifty. It was very difficult to get=cane. With 12' strips, you can just grab 6 and have enough for one rod.=He would cut the butts shorter and splice the strips under the cork and=reel seat. He would commit one culm to a certain length rod. He someti=mes would split and saw another culm to shorter rods and swap the butt se=ctions...no splicing that way. Pretty clever ay?Bill always said, "The only thing tighter than a tight Scotsman is a gene=rous Finlander!" Geez, I miss him. ----- Original Message ----- RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.e=duSubject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Johnwhat on earth did Bill do that I am not doing. I have never been ableto get more than three rods (7 1/2') amd mostly one tipped ones from aculm. I know that I am a little wasteful with the bamboo, but I canhardly believe 7. Ralph This was aspe= sh= y clever ay? Bill always said, "The only thing tighter than a = ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph Moon Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 6:32 JNL123141@msn.com Cc: jbbamboo@hotmail.com;thogan@roc=hester.rr.com; RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing been ableto get more than three rods (7 1/2') amd mostly one tipped = mboo, but I canhardly believe7.Ralph from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Wed Sep 5 12:23:49 2001 f85HNmZ27003 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 12:23:48 - Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft long vises Frank, where would we find out more about training wheels and a six foot long vise-- --- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning Two gizmos that DO work for me, to make hand planing lesserror prone, are Max Satoh's "slash" jig, which is basicallya 6ft long vise that holds your strip for that first 60 degreeangle, and the plane leveller training wheels that I thinkJohn Bokstrom invented. I modified Max's jig so it closes with a set of hand togglesabout 10 inches apart, instead of bolts. Just takes a minute toclamp a strip in place then get that perfect initial angle. The training wheels look a little dorky but when you get thosefull-length shavings every pass, with no effort to keep the plane level,you don't mind so much. Just think of it as a (very) poor-mans millingmachine. Like everything else, if you hand plane a lot you get good atkeeping angles etc. but if you only make a few rods a year likeme these sorts of jigs help eliminate some mistakes.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Sep 5 13:44:15 2001 f85IiEZ01648 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 13:44:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Oops In a message dated 9/5/01 6:55:27 AM Central Daylight Time, wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: Indeed! More importantly, how would you tie a fly to catch one? I bet THAT would be an interesting outing! mark (wonko the sane!) from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Sep 5 13:45:47 2001 f85IjlZ01890 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 13:45:47 -0500 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:45:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Oops Brings a whole new meaning to the word "Tube fly".......... Mark At 02:44 PM 9/5/2001 -0400, you wrote: In a message dated 9/5/01 6:55:27 AM Central Daylight Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: Do tell the name of the fish when you learn of itsname..... Enquiring minds want to know....... Mark >>Indeed! More importantly, how would you tie a fly to catch one? I bet THATwould be an interesting outing! mark (wonko the sane!) from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 13:46:32 2001 f85IkUZ02059 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 13:46:31 -0500 05 Sep 2001 11:46:31 PDT Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing there was another source for a type of splitter justlike the one used by winston that was alot moreexpensive. does anyone remember who had that one? timothy --- John Long wrote: OK, here's the dope. I use a metal cutting bandsawblade of 14 t.p.i. I saw butt strips to 1/4" andtips to about 3/16". After splitting the culm intosixes or eighths, I turn the strips sideways and sawoff the dams. from here on I just push the sectionsthru the saw (enamel side up) just eyeballing eachstrip. Some sections I saw into thirds and othersinto four strips, just depending on their size.There is an interesting website called Hida Tool. They sell 4,6,8,10,&12 bladed splitters (ala thevideo Winston Waters) I bought a 6 bladed one andsplit a whole bale of culms in a little over anhour. Did it just like Glen B. did it in the videoagainst the brick wall of my house. (Wife was outshopping) Works great! You get very equal sectionsbecause the splitting forces are equal in alldirections. It was fun too! John----- Original Message -----From: Harry BoydSent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:42 PM Cc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Splitting vs band sawingOkay John, Not fair to tease us like that withoutdetails... Atleast give us an outline of how you go about it. Harry John Long wrote: I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straight many years ago but the strips do indeed tear at the nodes. What I do now is split the culm into sixths or eighths then bandsaw them into thirds but I follow the existing contours and then do my straightening. "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Sep 5 14:23:03 2001 f85JN2Z05098 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:23:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions Jason.Which type of ferrules are you looking for the dems. I have the Payne ferrule dems. for 9/64-----18/64 The Payne size is .002-.003 below standard 64 sizes.Best Hal. from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Wed Sep 5 14:32:17 2001 f85JWGZ06096 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:32:16 -0500 MAA26846; Subject: RE: Ferrule dimensions I am restoring a rod that has ferrule that are slightly undersized, betweena 13 and a 14. Any suggestions on where to get something that might work.I would hate to dress a ferrule down that much, but it is that or salvagethe old ferrule. On that note where can I get a ferrule puller? Thanks. JeremyNevada City Anglers -----Original Message----- baconrod@gsmrinc.com Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions Jason.Which type of ferrules are you looking for the dems. I havethe Payne ferrule dems. for 9/64-----18/64 The Payne size is .002-.003 below standard 64 sizes.Best Hal. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed Sep 5 14:38:07 2001 f85Jc6Z06603 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:38:06 -0500 by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Wed, 05 Sep 2001 15:37:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions You can get a Ferrule Puller from Russ Gooding at Goldenwitch or you canmake one yourself out of a piece of hardwood. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Ferrule dimensions I am restoring a rod that has ferrule that are slightly undersized, between a 13 and a 14. Any suggestions on where to get something that mightwork.I would hate to dress a ferrule down that much, but it is that or salvagethe old ferrule. On that note where can I get a ferrule puller? Thanks. JeremyNevada City Anglers -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu baconrod@gsmrinc.comSent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Ferrule dimensions Jason.Which type of ferrules are you looking for the dems. I havethe Payne ferrule dems. for 9/64-----18/64 The Payne size is .002-.003 below standard 64 sizes.Best Hal. from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Sep 5 15:39:01 2001 f85Kd1Z10207 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:39:01 -0500 (63.228.45.27) Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing John,I have a splitter like the one you mention. When using this tool with a =drying split in it the strips end up unequal in width. The light just =lit! You must use the tool before putting in a drying split right?Dave -----Original Message-----From: John Long Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Forgot to add that I use roller stands in front and back of the =bandsaw to help handle the 12 ft. strips. If someone brings a bandsaw =to the S.R.G. I will gladly do a demo. I will also bring the six blade =splitter. ----- Original Message -----From: Harry BoydSent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Okay John, Not fair to tease us like that without details... Atleast give us an outline of how you go about it. Harry John Long wrote: I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straightmany years ago but the strips do indeed tear at thenodes. What I do now is split the culm into sixths oreighths then bandsaw them into thirds but I follow theexisting contours and then do my straightening. "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- John,Ihave = like the one you mention. When using this tool with a drying split in it = strips end up unequal in width. The light just lit! You must use the = putting in a drying split right?Dave -----Original = RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu = Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:50 AMSubject:Re: = vs band sawingForgot to add that I use roller stands in front and back of the = splitter. ----- Original Message =----- Harry BoydSent: Tuesday, September = 10:42 PM JNL123141@msn.comCc: =RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Splitting vs = sawing = -- from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Sep 5 15:53:27 2001 f85KrLZ11174 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:53:21 -0500 Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:53:20 +0100 Subject: Hardy Jock Scot Taper The search is over ............After several begging e-mails , visits to the Hardy factory and numerouspleading letters/e-mails and telephone calls to various parties 'we'have at last that most elusive of casting rod tapers.The Hardy Jock Scot rod was produced with two tips and acasting handle(pistol grip type) with a detachable trigger (if oneshould wish to cast without one ) and with a spanner/wrench for lockingin the reel,a Hardy Jock Scot Multiplier if you could afford one !My1938 Hardy Catalogue lists the price for the rod when new at circa £7 UKsterling(say $10 US at todays rate and the reel was about the samemoney).One such rodcomplete with the matching Jock Scot reel was sold asrecently as last year by Mr Codella for about $2500 US if my memoryserves me correct to a collector from Singapore.I know this because Itried to get Mr Codella to measure the taper( after having spotted therod in his most excellent catalogue ) ,but alas at the time I hadwritten he had already shipped the rod to Singapore!The two tips supplied with the rod were made of 'Palakona'cane ( heattreated bamboo , most Brit rods around and before this time were neverheat treated )and they were marked as 'heavy' for casting weights upto1/2oz and 'light' for casting weights of 1/4 oz.The rod was firstproduced ( to the best of my knowledge and with the assistance of aHardy catalogue )in 1938 with the last rod being made circa 1950.......Ithink ?The tapers herein are reproduced courtesy of a Mr Masyuki ( Jerry )Iwataof Tokyo ( a hobbyist bamboo rod restorer and bamboo rod fisher ) from a1948 example . 'Jerry' recently 'pipped' me on e-bay and bought the rod from a fellow Brit at a very very low price ( why didn't I bid more ?).Anyhow ,that said and with a big thankyou to 'Jerry' and hismicrometer , here are the dimensions he has sent 'us'. All dimensions being measured over varnish are presented in thousanthsof an inch. The first measurement being at 2"(50mm) from the tip ring/guide (i.eafter the ring/guide , ring/guide tube and tip wrap ).Subsequent measurements then being made at 6"(150mm) increments .The final measurement being at a 4"(100mm) increment from it'spredecessor.This is best explained by reviewing the following tapers dimensionsafter which all should be clear ? Hardy Jock Scot Heavy (1/2 Oz) Hardy Jock Scot Light (1/4 Oz) 2" from Tip Guide 134 1048" 153 12314" 189 15820" 204 18026" 237 19932" 255 22038" 261 24044" 288 25950" 300 28654" 326 296 Total Rod length being 56"for each Tip ( i.e Heavy and Light ) After 54" each section is fitted with the ferrule wraps and male ferruleto give the extra 2"(50mm) and a total tip/section length of56"(1400mm). The Guide/Ring Spacings(all full framed agates ) have been measured onthe original rod(s) asfollows; Heavy Tip132mm 178mm 210mm 245mm 280mm ( 5 Guides plus Tip ) Light Tip135mm 175mm 215mm 245mm 285mm ( 5 Guides plus Tip ) If anyone should build and cast this rod please let me know what youthink? I'll be building the rod(s)this winter for casting in the spring. Tight lines............Paul ( we don't only make fly rods ) Blakeley . Total rod lengths being 56" from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Sep 5 16:25:50 2001 f85LPnZ12945 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:25:49 -0500 (authenticated) for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:18:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Hardy Jock Scot Taper Congratulations Paul! Just goes to show that persistence and patience do pay off. Hope this rodisall you have dreamed about it being. Harry "paul.blakley" wrote: The search is over ............ --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Sep 5 16:39:22 2001 f85LdLZ13789 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:39:21 - Subject: RE: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft long vises I think Jerry Wall (http://jwflyrods.com) has training wheels on his agendaof tools for the rodmaker.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft longvises Frank, where would we find out more about training wheels and a six foot long vise from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Sep 5 17:42:58 2001 f85MgoZ19078 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 17:42:51 -0500 f85MghJ86690; Subject: Re: You are my last desperate hope Thanks, Bob I got my answer quicker than I thought, andm from a different source - thelist. It was important - beer was bet on the correct answer. Peter----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: You are my last desperate hope The Candiru (Vaudellia Cirrhosa), or Carnero Fish, is found only in theAmazon and Oranoco Rivers in South America and is attracted to thewarmthof urine. So if youre going anywhere near those 2 rivers, remember not topee in them. This tiny fish lodges itself in your urethra and flares itsbarbed fins. Regards, Bob On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Peter McKean wrote: McDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into that cesspool reliquary of a thing you call a "brain" and answer me the ultimate trivia question. My incipientbrain rot has expunged the answer from mine, and I cannot recall enough ofthe one-word answer even to look it up or to find it on the web. In several rivers in South America there lives a very small parasitic fish. Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; perhaps "symbiotic" is better. The really attractive feature of this fish is that when you go swimming in the river, it swims up your urethra, gets itself all settled about halfway up, erects its spines and becomes bloody impossible to pull out. It thencauses an intense urethritis and urethral obstruction, as you might imagine.I want you to understand that this fish is not exactly a barramundi, butgiven its lifestyle, how big does it have to be. This little party trick makes the fish the single biggest cause of surgical penis amputation in South America, and obviously endears it to thehearts of thousands of Latino females. In case you are wise to the risk and do not go swimming, but in scorn choose instead to piss in the river, this little charmer can also swim upthe stream of urine and into your donger ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It seems to my ailing memory that it is a relatively short name, and that it ends in "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia brain, hopefully not in vain, McKean from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 18:01:19 2001 f85N1IZ21199 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:01:18 -0500 Wed, 5 Sep 2001 16:01:18 -0700 Subject: Re: You are my last desperate hope FILETIME=[AC5630C0:01C1365E] It is the Candiru. It follows current because it usually lives in the =gill cavities of larger fish where it usually nips off a few gill = Jeff SchaefferResearch Fishery BiologistUSGS Great Lakes Science CenterAnn Arbor, MI(when not making rods) It is the Candiru. It follows current = usually lives in the gill cavities of larger fish where it usually nips = few gill filaments. Jeff SchaefferResearch FisheryBiologistUSGS Great Lakes Science =CenterAnn Arbor, MI(when not making =rods) from RFNUNN@aol.com Wed Sep 5 18:05:33 2001 f85N5XZ21856 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:05:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Oops It is a candirue - not sure of spelling It isa candirue - not sure of spelling from irish-george@chartermi.net Wed Sep 5 18:33:16 2001 f85NXDZ23154 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:33:14 -0500 2001 19:33:13 -0400 Subject: Re: You are my last desperate hope http://www.urbanlegends.com/animals/candiru_urethra.html ----- Original Message ----- "Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: You are my last desperate hope Look it up in the Bible (McLanes Standard Fishing Encyclopedia). It makes good reading! Marty rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: The Candiru (Vaudellia Cirrhosa), or Carnero Fish, is found only in theAmazon and Oranoco Rivers in South America and is attracted to the warmth of urine. So if youre going anywhere near those 2 rivers, remember not to pee in them. This tiny fish lodges itself in your urethra and flares itsbarbed fins. Regards, Bob On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Peter McKean wrote: McDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into that cesspool reliquary of a thing you call a "brain" and answer me the ultimate trivia question. My incipientbrain rot has expunged the answer from mine, and I cannot recall enough ofthe one-word answer even to look it up or to find it on the web. In several rivers in South America there lives a very small parasitic fish. Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; perhaps "symbiotic" is better. The really attractive feature of this fish is that when you go swimming in the river, it swims up your urethra, gets itself all settledabout half way up, erects its spines and becomes bloody impossible to pullout. It then causes an intense urethritis and urethral obstruction, as youmight imagine. I want you to understand that this fish is not exactly abarramundi, but given its lifestyle, how big does it have to be. This little party trick makes the fish the single biggest cause of surgical penis amputation in South America, and obviously endears it to thehearts of thousands of Latino females. In case you are wise to the risk and do not go swimming, but in scorn choose instead to piss in the river, this little charmer can also swim upthe stream of urine and into your donger ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It seems to my ailing memory that it is a relatively short name, and that it ends in "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia brain, hopefully not in vain, McKean from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Wed Sep 5 18:48:56 2001 f85NmUZ23742 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:48:30 -0500 f85NmFN212314 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:48:16 -0400 Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Sep 5 19:02:40 2001 f8602dZ24238 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:02:39 - TAA27698 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:02:41 Subject: RE: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft long vises in The Planing Form, and its reprinted in "Best of ...". I thinkdiagrams are in circulation somewhere on the internet but I can't remember. I can't remember much anymore. Max Satoh's slash jig can be seen at his web page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrodJust be sure to click on the English link unless you read Japanese.My modifications are (1) mount 1 "jaw" on the edge of a flat wooden base (like a 6ft x 1ft piece of plywood); (2) the second jaw closes to it sliding across the base; (3) several pieces of metal rod pass thru thesliding jaw, glued into the stationary jaw for alignment; (4) severalwooden levers push the jaws shut. If I had a digital camera I'd takea picture.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Sep 6 06:12:32 2001 f86BCUZ12295 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 06:12:30 -0500 f86BCJJ21891; Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning I could not agree more with what Harry says; I am in awe of some of the =greats who bevel and mill; Jim Payne is my criterion as a rodmaker. But = exercise, there is nothing wrong with the hand plane and the forms. IMHO, Harry, it's actually good discipline and exercise for the =arthritics amongst us - keeps up the joint mobility; but more than =anything else, there is something inherently satisfying about having =those long, slow, perfect curls of bamboo coming away from the plane. Peter Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning I'm convinced that for the amateur, or the beginner, hand planing =is just plain simpler. A well-tuned hand planing (or hand milling) =operation can do the work as accurately as any powered beveler, and more =accurately than many. Hand planing allows small one man operations to =produce workable rods within a few months of beginning the process and a =few hundred dollars of expenses. To do so with power tools requires = Even as complicated as we make planing forms sound (and they =aren't REALLY that complicated), a good set of forms still seems easier = Both methods are quite capable of producing excellent rods, as =others have pointed out. Neither one is inherently "better" than the =other. To quote Dennis Miller, "Of course, that's just my opinion. I = I have received several very good and informative post on sawing and =milling strips. Now the millers and sawers have spoken up and present a =good case. How about those die hard hand planners? I could not agree more with what Harry= in awe of some of the greats who bevel and mill; Jim Payne is my = rodmaker. But for those who make only a few rods, and who get a lot of = forms. IMHO, Harry, it's actually good = exercise for the arthritics amongst us - keeps up the joint mobility; = than anything else, there is something inherently satisfying about = long, slow, perfect curls of bamboo coming away from the =plane. Peter ----- Original Message ----- Harry= Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, September 06, = AM planning milling) operation can do the work as accurately as any powered = to produce workable rods within a few months of beginning the process = they aren't REALLY that complicated), a good set of forms still seems = Relatively easy set up Highly repeatable Short learning = Advantages of powered bevelers: Faster for production runs = I have received several very good = informative post on sawing and milling strips. Now the millers and = have spoken up and present a good case. How about those die hard = from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Sep 6 07:22:04 2001 232.frontiernet.net [66.133.130.232] (may be forged)) f86CM2Z13541 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:22:02 -0500 Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning All, Other than speed, I see no advantage of beveling.I am not in any hurry, so.... my floor will be full of thin 4 foot =legnths of bamboo. Tom Ausfeld Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning I could not agree more with what Harry says; I am in awe of some of =the greats who bevel and mill; Jim Payne is my criterion as a rodmaker. =But for those who make only a few rods, and who get a lot of fun out of =the exercise, there is nothing wrong with the hand plane and the forms. IMHO, Harry, it's actually good discipline and exercise for the =arthritics amongst us - keeps up the joint mobility; but more than =anything else, there is something inherently satisfying about having =those long, slow, perfect curls of bamboo coming away from the plane. Peter Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning I'm convinced that for the amateur, or the beginner, hand =planing is just plain simpler. A well-tuned hand planing (or hand =milling) operation can do the work as accurately as any powered beveler, =and more accurately than many. Hand planing allows small one man =operations to produce workable rods within a few months of beginning the =process and a few hundred dollars of expenses. To do so with power = Even as complicated as we make planing forms sound (and they =aren't REALLY that complicated), a good set of forms still seems easier = Both methods are quite capable of producing excellent rods, as =others have pointed out. Neither one is inherently "better" than the =other. To quote Dennis Miller, "Of course, that's just my opinion. I = I have received several very good and informative post on sawing =and milling strips. Now the millers and sawers have spoken up and =present a good case. How about those die hard hand planners? All,My $0.02 worth, Other than speed, I see no advantage of =beveling.I am not in any hurry, so.... my floor will be full = foot legnths of bamboo. Tom Ausfeld ----- Original Message ----- Peter McKean Cc: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, September 06, = AM planning I could not agree more with what = in awe of some of the greats who bevel and mill; Jim Payne is my = a rodmaker. But for those who make only a few rods, and who get a lot = out of the exercise, there is nothing wrong with the hand plane and = forms. IMHO, Harry, it's actually good = exercise for the arthritics amongst us - keeps up the joint mobility; = than anything else, there is something inherently satisfying about = plane. Peter ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, September 06, = 12:42 AMSubject: Re: strengths of = planning milling) operation can do the work as accurately as any powered = operations to produce workable rods within a few months of beginning = (and they aren't REALLY that complicated), a good set of forms still = Relatively easy set up Highly repeatable Short learning = Advantages of powered bevelers: Faster for production runs = I have received several very = informative post on sawing and milling strips. Now the millers and = have spoken up and present a good case. How about those die hard = from patrick.w.coffey@Boeing.com Thu Sep 6 08:04:44 2001 f86D4iZ14479 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:04:44 -0500 IAA20147; IAA09157; f86D4gV27969; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 06:04:43 -0700 "'stetzer@csd.uwm.edu'" Subject: RE: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft long vis es http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tips/planelevel.gif Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 5:02 PM Subject: RE: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft long vises in The Planing Form, and its reprinted in "Best of ...". I thinkdiagrams are in circulation somewhere on the internet but I can't remember. I can't remember much anymore. Max Satoh's slash jig can be seen at his web page:http://members.tripod.com/maxrodJust be sure to click on the English link unless you read Japanese.My modifications are (1) mount 1 "jaw" on the edge of a flat wooden base (like a 6ft x 1ft piece of plywood); (2) the second jaw closes to it sliding across the base; (3) several pieces of metal rod pass thru thesliding jaw, glued into the stationary jaw for alignment; (4) severalwooden levers push the jaws shut. If I had a digital camera I'd takea picture.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from JNL123141@msn.com Thu Sep 6 08:53:07 2001 f86Dr6Z16821 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:53:06 -0500 Thu, 6 Sep 2001 06:52:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing FILETIME=[3A9733D0:01C136DB] It really doesn't matter, at least to me. They all get split and sawed a=nyway..... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing John,I have a splitter like the one you mention. When using this tool with a d=rying split in it the strips end up unequal in width. The light just lit!=You must use the tool before putting in a drying split right?Dave -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Forgot to add that I use roller stands in front and back of the bandsaw t=o help handle the 12 ft. strips. If someone brings a bandsaw to the S.R.=G. I will gladly do a demo. I will also bring the six blade splitter. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Splitting vs band sawing Okay John, Not fair to tease us like that without details... Atleast give us an outline of how you go about it. Harry John Long wrote: I have been sawing for many years. I used to saw straightmany years ago but the strips do indeed tear at thenodes. What I do now is split the culm into sixths oreighths then bandsaw them into thirds but I follow theexisting contours and then do my straightening. "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- It really doesn't matter, at least to me.= Cc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu I have asplitte=r like the one you mention. When using this tool with a drying split in i=t the strips end up unequal in width. The light just lit! You must use th= Harry Boy= stl.edu <RODMAKERS@mai= 11:50 A=MSubject: Re: Splitting vs bandsawing Forgot to add that I use roller stands in front and back of the bandsa= Boyd Sent: Tuesday, September 04,2= JNL123141@m=sn.com Cc:RODMAKERS@mail.wu=stl.edu Subject: Re: Splitti= ma= str= ht= from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 09:39:46 2001 f86EdkZ22745 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:39:46 -0500 HAA13121 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:39:46 -0700 Subject: Max's rough form Has anyone seen Max's rough form. It looks like a good idea and simple =to make. Would seem to be easier to use then the traditional 1st angle =roughing form. Check it out http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Forest/3040/slash.html Good job Max! Adam Vigil Has anyone seen Max's rough form. It = http://=www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Forest/3040/slash.html Good job Max! AdamVigil from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Sep 6 10:39:14 2001 f86FdDZ08430 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:39:13 -0500 id ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 08:30:02 -0700 John McDougall Subject: RE: You are my last desperate hope this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. the fish in question is a small catfish. it's called different things indifferent countries, including an "orofish".David Quammen in his book Natural Acts has a very entertaining chapterregarding this bad actor (the rest of the book is a good read too). chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: You are my last desperate hope McDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into that cesspool reliquary of a thing youcall a "brain" and answer me the ultimate trivia question. My incipientbrain rot has expunged the answer from mine, and I cannot recall enough ofthe one-word answer even to look it up or to find it on the web. In several rivers in South America there lives a very small parasitic fish.Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; perhaps "symbiotic" is better. The really attractive feature of this fish is that when you go swimming inthe river, it swims up your urethra, gets itself all settled about half wayup, erects its spines and becomes bloody impossible to pull out. It thencauses an intense urethritis and urethral obstruction, as you might imagine.I want you to understand that this fish is not exactly a barramundi, butgiven its lifestyle, how big does it have to be. This little party trick makes the fish the single biggest cause of surgicalpenis amputation in South America, and obviously endears it to the hearts ofthousands of Latino females. In case you are wise to the risk and do not go swimming, but in scornchoose instead to piss in the river, this little charmer can also swim upthe stream of urine and into your donger ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It seems to my ailing memory that it is arelatively short name, and that it ends in "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia brain, hopefully not in vain, McKean the different countries, including an "orofish".David Quammen in his book Natural Acts has a very entertaining chapter regardingthis bad actor (the rest of the book is a good read too). chris. -----Original Message-----From: Peter McKean September 05, Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: You are my lastdesperate hopeMcDougall Please take a deep, dirty dive into thatcesspool trivia question. My incipient brain rot has expunged the answer from mine,and I cannot recall enough of the one-word answer even to look it up or to find it on the web. In several rivers in South America there livesa very small parasitic fish. Perhaps not "parasitic" to be pedantic; perhaps "symbiotic" is better. The really attractivefeature of urethra, gets itself all settled about half way up, erects its spines and becomes bloody impossible to pull out. It then causes an intense urethritis and urethral obstruction, as you might imagine. I want you to understandthat this fish is not exactly a barramundi, but given its lifestyle, how big does it have to be. This little party trick makes the fish thesingle biggest cause of surgical penis amputation in South America, and obviously endears it to the hearts of thousands of Latino females. not go swimming, but in scorn choose instead to piss in the river, this little charmer can also swim up the stream of urine and into yourdonger ! Same end result! What is the bloody thing called? It seems tomy ailing memory that it is a relatively short name, and that it ends in "-iru". Trusting here in your famous trivia brain, hopefully not in vain, McKean from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Thu Sep 6 11:23:14 2001 f86GNDZ18996 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:23:13 -0500 id f86GN9N19181; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 01:23:09 +0900 (JST) id BAA08201; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 01:23:08 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Max's rough form Adam, Frank, et al, Thanks for referring to my Slash jig.Let me add some tips as to the wooden form. is made of hard wood. I made a groove about 1inch wide by chisel about0.03~0.04 inch deep on the sole of the plane.When using grooved sole plane, it will not plane the wooden form.Just a few pass will make a good 60 degree angle on a strip. Next is adjustable wooden planing form which is also displayed on the urlbelow.It is the roughing form not for final planing. I would like to have had abeveller but expensive. So, I thought using power hand plane on the woodenform.Metal form is dangerous to use power plane on it. Don't do that.When I looked at the sole of power plane, it had a V groove at the sole oftoe.I got a hint by that. The V groove works similar to grooved sole plane.But its width is narrow for wider strip.I found that the power plane will not plane the form when I set the heightdial of toe to zero. If I can have an enough wide groove on the toe, itwould completely work to plane the bamboo strip only above the face ofwooden form.To make this groove, attach some thin plate beside the existing V groove onthe sole of toe part, and adjust the height of the toe to the same depth (tothickness of the plate). The reason why two wooden forms themselves have wider width (7 cm) is forthe use of power plane. It is safer to use wider wooden form if you usepower plane, it's steady.Narrow width form is a little dangerous because power plane may easily losebalance.I am roughing by this method and bind right after that for heat treatment. I have another wooden form for final planing which is made of hard wood.I referred to Tony Young's web page on how to make. I use Lie Nielsen'sgrooved plane for this. There are some photoes on the page below. Neglectmany odd characters which are around the photoes. They are Jananese twobytes characters. Your PC cannot display those characters in a good shape.Please refer to the photoes only. Click thumb nail for enlarge. http://members.tripod.com/maxrod/shop/kashi-pf.htm Please be careful in using power plane not to have any injury. Max Has anyone seen Max's rough form. It looks like a good idea and simple tomake. Would seem to be easier to use then the traditional 1st angleroughing form. Check it out http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Forest/3040/slash.html Good job Max! Adam Vigil from stoltz10@home.com Thu Sep 6 11:30:09 2001 f86GU8Z20787 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:30:08 -0500 femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Groove on the sole I've heard of people [putting a groove in the sole of their planes, how =do you do it? and does it woek well? Tim I've heard of people [putting a groove = of their planes, how do you do it? and does it woek well? Thanks, Tim from homes-sold@home.com Thu Sep 6 12:23:32 2001 f86HNVZ02403 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:23:31 -0500 femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:23:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Groove on the sole Tim,I have a Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2 and a 212 that I ordered with a .005" grove. = Prior to that I had an old plane I milled/sanded a 1" wide X .004" grove = I also have a old Stanley I didn't want to take the chance of destroying =and put two strips of masking tape on the edges, worked fine but had to =change the tape every once in a while. Surprising how long the tape =last.Don Subject: Groove on the sole I've heard of people [putting a groove in the sole of their planes, how =do you do it? and does it woek well? Tim Tim,I have a Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2 and a 212 = ordered with a .005" grove. Prior to that I had an old plane I = 1" wide X .004" grove by using 1" wide wet/dry to a flat backing with = keep it straight. I also have a old Stanley I didn't want = chance of destroying and put two strips of masking tape on the edges, = fine but had to change the tape every once in a while. Surprising how = tape last.Don From:Tim =Stoltz Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:28 AMSubject: Groove on the sole I've heard of people [putting a groove = of their planes, how do you do it? and does it woek well? Thanks, Tim from don@pmdtechnology.com Thu Sep 6 14:57:12 2001 f86JvBZ20544 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:57:11 -0500 (24.218.17.138) 12:57:03 -0700 Subject: Rough Forms I have been quietly reading this list (and rereading Garrison's,Cattanach's, and Maurer's books) and gathering up my nerve to begin makingarod. I am now hunting supplies and making tools (thanks for all the adviceon the list - I learned enough to be dangerous) and, now, I have aquestion - the first of many I am sure: Both Garrison and Maurer use (and I saw one on the internet somewhere) aroughing form that is 87 degrees (30 plus 57) but Cattanach uses one thatis82.5 degrees (30 plus 52.5) and his argument makes sense to me. Whatangleshould I use? Thanks in advance. Don _________________________Donald E. Jaekle, Jr.don@pmdtechnology.com from don@pmdtechnology.com Thu Sep 6 15:48:22 2001 f86KmLZ24664 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 15:48:21 -0500 (24.218.17.138) 13:48:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Rough Forms To those who asked, I am located in North Andover, Mass - 30 miles north ofBoston. Thanks for the input and the offers of help - I will definitelytake you up on that. Don____________________________________________________________________Donald E. Jaekle, Jr.don@pmdtechnology.com from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Sep 6 18:30:57 2001 f86NUuZ01085 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:30:56 -0500 Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:30:41 -0700 Subject: wow! I did it! FILETIME=[F1573430:01C1372B] I FINALLY got my first rod together, and did some lawn casting tonight. =It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turned out to be a solid 6 weight since my =planing was off a bit, but it lays it out straight and with style. Next =time I'll lighten up the tip a bit, and I need to work on my cosmetics, =but it is a good rod and feels right. I never could have finished it without the advice I got on the list, and =a special thanks to all those at Grayrock who tolerated my incessant = Thanks again to all of you. Jeff Schaeffer I FINALLY got my first rod together, = lawn casting tonight. It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turnedout = solid 6 weight since my planing was off a bit, but it lays it out = with style. Next time I'll lighten up the tip a bit, and I need to work = cosmetics, but it is a good rod and feels right. I never could have finished it without = Thanks again to all of =you. Jeff Schaeffer from caneman@clnk.com Thu Sep 6 18:33:15 2001 f86NXEZ01795 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:33:14 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: wow! I did it! No thanks necessary, Jeff... but as long as we're handing them out... =thanks for pulling me out of that silt hole on the AuSable! LOL That =stuff is nasty! Congrats!Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Subject: wow! I did it! I FINALLY got my first rod together, and did some lawn casting =tonight. It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turned out to be a solid 6 weight since =my planing was off a bit, but it lays it out straight and with style. =Next time I'll lighten up the tip a bit, and I need to work on my =cosmetics, but it is a good rod and feels right. I never could have finished it without the advice I got on the list, =and a special thanks to all those at Grayrock who tolerated my incessant = Thanks again to all of you. Jeff Schaeffer No thanks necessary, Jeff... but as long as we're = Congrats!Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Schaeffer Sent: Thursday, September 06, = PMSubject: wow! I did it! I FINALLY got my first rod together, = lawn casting tonight. It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turned = solid 6 weight since my planing was off a bit, but it lays it out = with style. Next time I'll lighten up the tip a bit, and I need to = cosmetics, but it is a good rod and feels right. I never could have finished it = Thanks again to all of =you. Jeff Schaeffer from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 19:28:06 2001 f870S5Z13535 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:28:05 -0500 RAA02688; Subject: Re: Rough Forms Don, I use to use W.C. first form and it worked fine. Others dont use on at alland take it to their metal forms right off. Now I use a bevler made from arouter set on it side (MedVed, frankenstien) It works the best. The fact iswith a first form you must be very concientious of the angle. Answer to yourquestion: Pick one! Adam VigilP.S.- Glad to have you aboard, ask many questions. We need to get some lifeback into the list.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rough Forms I have been quietly reading this list (and rereading Garrison's,Cattanach's, and Maurer's books) and gathering up my nerve to beginmaking a rod. I am now hunting supplies and making tools (thanks for all the advice on the list - I learned enough to be dangerous) and, now, I have aquestion - the first of many I am sure: Both Garrison and Maurer use (and I saw one on the internet somewhere) aroughing form that is 87 degrees (30 plus 57) but Cattanach uses one that is 82.5 degrees (30 plus 52.5) and his argument makes sense to me. What angle should I use? Thanks in advance. Don _________________________Donald E. Jaekle, Jr.don@pmdtechnology.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 19:36:50 2001 f870anZ15615 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:36:49 -0500 RAA12229; Subject: Re: wow! I did it! Congrats Jeff, I am sure it will be one of your most cherished rods. And was that a sh*t hole or silt hole you pulled Bob out of ? Either way =it sounds funny! Regards, Adam Vigil Subject: wow! I did it! I FINALLY got my first rod together, and did some lawn casting =tonight. It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turned out to be a solid 6 weight since =my planing was off a bit, but it lays it out straight and with style. =Next time I'll lighten up the tip a bit, and I need to work on my =cosmetics, but it is a good rod and feels right. I never could have finished it without the advice I got on the list, =and a special thanks to all those at Grayrock who tolerated my incessant = Thanks again to all of you. Jeff Schaeffer Congrats Jeff, I am sure it will be one of your most = rods. And was that a sh*t hole or silt hole = Bob out of ? Either way it sounds funny! Regards, Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Schaeffer Sent: Thursday, September 06, = PMSubject: wow! I did it! I FINALLY got my first rod together, = lawn casting tonight. It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turned = solid 6 weight since my planing was off a bit, but it lays it out = with style. Next time I'll lighten up the tip a bit, and I need to = cosmetics, but it is a good rod and feels right. I never could have finished it = Thanks again to all of =you. Jeff Schaeffer from oakmere@carol.net Thu Sep 6 20:23:33 2001 f871NVZ19588 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 20:23:31 -0500 [216.215.133.226] (may be forged)) f871NO023534 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:23:27 -0400 Subject: RE: Kettle Creek Cane Jeremy: I think I have seen these rods at Phil Balachino's Fly Shop on Kettle Creekin Pennsylvania. I do not know who makes them, but I am almost sure it is alocal rodmaker in that part of PA. Some one from up in that area may knowmore than I. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from bob@downandacross.com Thu Sep 6 20:38:21 2001 f871cKZ20352 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 20:38:20 -0500 Subject: RE: Kettle Creek Cane Hi Frank and Jeremy:I could swear I read about Tom Maxwell and someone who apprenticed underhimusing that name. I could be wrong. You should try asking at the EveningHatch shop.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Kettle Creek Cane Jeremy: I think I have seen these rods at Phil Balachino's Fly Shop on Kettle Creekin Pennsylvania. I do not know who makes them, but I am almost sure it is alocal rodmaker in that part of PA. Some one from up in that area may knowmore than I. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thu Sep 6 21:06:56 2001 f8726tZ21752 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:06:56 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Thu, 06 Sep 2001 22:05:57 -0400 , Subject: Training Wheels for Hand Planes Bob, et all I do know for a fact that John Bokstrum has given Jerry Wall of JWFlyrodspermission to reproduce his original design of the training wheels. Lasttime I spoke with Jerry he mentioned that he had the parts machined up tomake several of them. Only thing I can say is that if Jerry makes it, it will be excellent. Beinga very satisfied customer of Jerry's I can say that his work is second tonone. No financial interest, etc. etc. etc., just a satisfied customer. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft long vises I think Jerry Wall (http://jwflyrods.com) has training wheels on his agenda of tools for the rodmaker.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: strengths of hand planning--- training wheels , 6 ft longvises Frank, where would we find out more about training wheels and a six foot long vise from richjez@enteract.com Thu Sep 6 21:28:52 2001 f872SoZ22811 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:28:50 -0500 Subject: Re: wow! I did it! --=====================_21864707==_.ALT Surely you aren't referring to Spikes? Rich Jezioro At 06:29 PM 9/6/01, Bob Nunley wrote: No thanks necessary, Jeff... but as long as we're handing them out... thanks for pulling me out of that silt hole on the AuSable! LOL That stuff is nasty! Congrats!Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message -----From: Jeff Schaeffer Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:34 PMSubject: wow! I did it! I FINALLY got my first rod together, and did some lawn casting tonight. It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turned out to be a solid 6 weight since my planing was off a bit, but it lays it out straight and with style. Next time I'll lighten up the tip a bit, and I need to work on my cosmetics, but it is a good rod and feels right. I never could have finished it without the advice I got on the list, and a special thanks to all those at Grayrock who tolerated my incessant questions. Especially Bob Nunley. Thanks again to all of you. Jeff Schaeffer --=====================_21864707==_.ALT Rich Jezioro At 06:29 PM 9/6/01, Bob Nunley wrote:No thanks necessary,Jeff... but as long as we're handing them out... thanks for pulling me nasty! Congrats!Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:34 PMSubject: wow! I did it! I FINALLY got my first rod together, and did some lawn casting tonight.It worked.It was a Dickerson 7613 that turned out to be a solid 6 weight since myplaning was off a bit, but it lays it out straight and with style. Next time I'lllighten up the tip a bit, and I need to work on my cosmetics, but it is a goodrod and feels right. I never could have finished it without the advice I got on the list, and aspecial thanks to all those at Grayrock who tolerated my incessantquestions. Especially Bob Nunley. Thanks again to all of you. Jeff Schaeffer --=====================_21864707==_.ALT-- from rodmaker@troutchaser.com Fri Sep 7 11:51:10 2001 f87GoWZ17625 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:50:37 -0500 07 Sep 2001 07:03:43 PDT Subject: Re: Groove on the sole Tim, have a read at Frank Neunemann's site. He has an excellent site I mightadd. The article you need is under the Articles section and is titled"Preparing Planes & Scrapers" Hope this helps. ....ron On Thu, 06 September 2001, "Tim Stoltz" wrote: I've heard of people [putting a groove inthe sole of their planes, how do you do it? and does it woek well? Thanks, Tim Ron ElderTroutchaser Rod Co.Calgary, ABwww.troutchaser.com from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Fri Sep 7 12:05:25 2001 f87H5PZ19781 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:05:25 -0500 id ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 08:10:49 -0700 Subject: 8 foot 8 weight hi all, here is the taper i offered to post about a week ago. sorry it tookme so long to dig it out of the files. it's an 8 foot eight weight, very light for it's size. the action is a crispsemi- parabolic, very much light the PHY 17. 0 0905 11110 13515 15020 15825 18030 19835 20740 22445 24250 25555 26860 28565 28670 29575 30680 31285 31290 31295 31296 312 i hope everyone who wanted it gets good use out of it. chris from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Sep 7 13:17:07 2001 f87IH7Z28039 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:17:07 -0500 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:17:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Rough Forms A rough form isn't neccessary - just use the butt section side of your final forms opened up to accommodate the rough strips. Flip the strips frequently until you get a good 60 deg. triangle. I usually take two passes then flip until I get a good bevel on both sides.Darryl P.S. A good size 3 bench plane makes roughing go a lot faster In a message dated 9/6/01 12:57:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, don@pmdtechnology.com writes: Both Garrison and Maurer use (and I saw one on the internet somewhere) aroughing form that is 87 degrees (30 plus 57) but Cattanach uses one thatis82.5 degrees (30 plus 52.5) and his argument makes sense to me. Whatangleshould I use? Thanks in advance. A rough form isn't neccessary - just use the butt section side of yourfinal forms opened up to accommodate the rough strips. Flip the stripsfrequently until you get a good 60 deg. triangle. I usually take two passes then flip until I get a good bevel on both sides.Darryl P.S. A good size 3 bench plane makes roughing go a lot faster In a message dated 9/6/01 12:57:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, don@pmdtechnology.com writes:Both Garrison and Maurer use (and I saw one on the internetsomewhere) aroughing form that is 87 degrees (30 plus 57) but Cattanach uses onethat is82.5 degrees (30 plus 52.5) and his argument makes sense to me. from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Sep 7 14:11:10 2001 f87JB9Z03755 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:11:09 -0500 Fri, 7 Sep 2001 21:10:51 +0200 (MET DST)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: 8 foot 8 weight "Rodmakers (E-mail)" THANKS Chris this looks VERRRY interesting!! danny:-) from robertgkope@home.com Fri Sep 7 14:22:44 2001 f87JMhZ04746 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 14:22:43 -0500 femail37.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 7 Sep 2001 07:13:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Rough Forms I started out using a Garrison type initial planing form, but switched tousing a set of maple forms with symmetric 60Ÿ grooves of different depths.With any of the asymmetric forms, you are assuming that you can split yourbamboo perfectly perpendicular to the surface of the culm for the entirelength of the split. You can't. I find it easier to just use a symmetricgroove, and be careful to hold the enamel side of the strip against the sideof the groove for the first few passes. If you alternately take 2 or 3passes off each side of the apex of the strip, it only takes a few passesthe length of the strip before it will rest solidly in the groove. If youthink about it, the geometry of the strip and the groove tends to force theenamel against the side of the groove as you plane away the corners on thepith side of the strip. This approach also means one less form to make, and that you don't have toswitch forms as you plane. The straight 60Ÿ forms are also much easier tomake since you can just cut the grooves with a 60Ÿ veining router bit. However, I think the ease of getting accurate angles in a strip depends farmore on getting all the twists out a strip before you start planing than onwhat type of roughing form you use. Just my $.02. -- Robert Kope Both Garrison and Maurer use (and I saw one on the internet somewhere) aroughing form that is 87 degrees (30 plus 57) but Cattanach uses one that is 82.5 degrees (30 plus 52.5) and his argument makes sense to me. What angle should I use? Thanks in advance. Don _________________________Donald E. Jaekle, Jr.don@pmdtechnology.com from bluemoon@kitemail.com Fri Sep 7 15:40:40 2001 f87KedZ12672 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 15:40:39 -0500 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 13:40:41 -0700 Subject: Business Trends? Hi all, I've just signed up for the list again after being away for a while. I'm probablywhat you would call a wanna-be. I'm slowly collecting tools and materials tomake my own rods "someday". My question is this- Visiting the rodcrafters site on canerod.com, I noticethat there are a lot of dead links. Have all of these people dropped out in thelast several months? Is this unusual, or just natural turn-over? Thanks! Ken _____________________________________________________________KiteLife.com, The Internet Magazinehttp://www.kitelife.com from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 7 16:29:10 2001 f87LT9Z15303 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:29:09 -0500 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 17:29:07 -0400 Subject: Slow Day --=====================_37366074==_.ALT This is as slow as I have ever seen this list --- or is something wrong. f. _________________________ Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 Home: (717) 732-5050Fax: (717) 732-2414 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! --=====================_37366074==_.ALT This is as slow as I have ever seen this list --- or is somethingwrong. _________________________ FredBohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 MAKEIT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! --=====================_37366074==_.ALT-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Sep 7 16:46:05 2001 f87Lk4Z16268 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 16:46:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Slow Day It's slow! Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 7 18:30:05 2001 f87NU5Z20880 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:30:05 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Slow Day If it's too slow for ya and you just REALLY need your bamboo fix, you'remore than welcome to come on over... I have 36 strips that have to bepressed and straightened tomorrow... all help is welcome. Payment is inform of fermented hops and barley. Subject: Re: Slow Day It's slow! Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from rodwrapp@swbell.net Fri Sep 7 21:25:16 2001 f882PFZ24553 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 21:25:15 -0500 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Tung Oil I have rubbed down the blank then wipe off, and how come tung oil leaves awhite film??? Thanks Dave I have rubbed down the blank then wipe off,and how Dave from beadman@mac.com Fri Sep 7 21:45:34 2001 f882jXZ24842 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 21:45:33 -0500 Subject: Caliper I was looking around on eBay and noticed they had a LOT of new calipers up for auction, such as http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1634480721 Are these no-visible-brand-name-probably-made-in-China items any good, or should I look elsewhere, and if so, what are some suggested adequate but inexpensive brands to look for? Thanks in advance,Claude from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Sep 7 21:59:10 2001 f882x9Z25228 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 21:59:09 -0500 (authenticated) Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:52:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Tung Oil --------------FCCC7F3A36963F4A5F392716 Dave, Is it pure tung oil? Or "Tung-Oil Finish"?? Harry Davesrods wrote: I have rubbed down the blank then wipe off, and how cometung oil leaves a white film??? -- "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------FCCC7F3A36963F4A5F392716 Dave, Davesrods wrote:I have rubbeddown --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------FCCC7F3A36963F4A5F392716-- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Sep 7 22:48:27 2001 f883mQZ26340 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 22:48:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Tung Oil There are different types of Tung Oil. It depends on what partof the Tung it came from. Sorry, I just couldn't resist that! It's been a looong day! Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from rodwrapp@swbell.net Fri Sep 7 22:57:08 2001 f883v8Z26708 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 22:57:08 -0500 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Tung Oil Old Masters 100 percent Tung oil.. Sorry fogot how to do the percent sign..Thanks dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tung Oil There are different types of Tung Oil. It depends on what partof the Tung it came from. Sorry, I just couldn't resist that! It's been a looong day! Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Sep 8 02:00:34 2001 f8870XZ29168 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 02:00:33 -0500 Subject: Fishing Accidents All,To those who I have to get back to on the subject of the Jock Scot Taperplease accept my apologies as after this I will be off the 'keyboard', Yesterday I went fishing on the River Swale at Richmond in NorthYorkshire but never quite made it......The river bank collapsed and I fell several feet onto the boulders belowwith the result being several hours in the A&E of a local hospitalsorting out the broken bones.Such is life.........The only 'good'thing to come out of it is what shall I build to replacethe damned Fario Club rod that I smashed in the fall ?Anyhow that said time go ........back soon......I hope.......Paul from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Sep 8 07:51:05 2001 f88Cp4Z01339 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 07:51:04 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Fishing Accidents] --------------EFA79DC42B01C8F9322508EC --------------EFA79DC42B01C8F9322508EC Subject: Fishing Accidents All,To those who I have to get back to on the subject of the Jock Scot Taperplease accept my apologies as after this I will be off the 'keyboard', Yesterday I went fishing on the River Swale at Richmond in NorthYorkshire but never quite made it......The river bank collapsed and I fell several feet onto the boulders belowwith the result being several hours in the A&E of a local hospitalsorting out the broken bones.Such is life.........The only 'good'thing to come out of it is what shall I build to replacethe damned Fario Club rod that I smashed in the fall ?Anyhow that said time go ........back soon......I hope.......Paul --------------EFA79DC42B01C8F9322508EC-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Sep 8 09:21:53 2001 f88ELrZ02437 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 09:21:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Tung Oil I have used tung oil many times and not had this happen. I wonder if it could be contaminated or maybe like lacquer if the humidity is high it will go white. I would get a new supply and try a little out of a fresh can. I have used tung oil many times and not had this happen. I wonder ifit could be contaminated or maybe like lacquer if the humidity is high it will go can. from wiljette@nmia.com Sat Sep 8 12:26:01 2001 f88HQ0Z05945 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:26:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Dave: The following is excerpted from Bob Flexner's book, Understanding =Wood Finishing. "Tung oil will turn white if allowed to cure in any =thickness; the only way to remove it is to strip it off down to the bare =wood." I know from personal experience that it takes several days to =cure a single coat in a dry atmosphere. Putting additional coats over a =uncured coat may be your problem.I use Watco Danish Oil Finish, an oil/varnish blend. A single coat is =usually dry in 24 hours. Pure tung oil seems to take forever. Will Subject: Tung Oil I have rubbed down the blank then wipe off, and how come tung oil =leaves a white film??? Thanks Dave Dave: The following is excerpted from = book, Understanding Wood Finishing. "Tung oil will turn white if allowed = in any thickness; the only way to remove it is to strip it off down to = wood." I know from personal experience that it takes several days to = coat may be your problem.I use Watco Danish Oil Finish, an = blend. A single coat is usually dry in 24 hours. Pure tung oil seems to = forever.No financial interest = Will ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, September 07, = PMSubject: Tung Oil I have rubbed down the blank then = Dave from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Sat Sep 8 13:06:17 2001 f88I6GZ07604 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:06:16 -0500 id ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 10:56:57 -0700 rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: RE: Tung Oil this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. i too, have used watco on half a dozen rods, and have been very pleased withit's performance.chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tung Oil Dave: The following is excerpted from Bob Flexner's book, UnderstandingWoodFinishing. "Tung oil will turn white if allowed to cure in any thickness;the only way to remove it is to strip it off down to the bare wood." I know from personal experience that it takes several days to cure a single coat ina dry atmosphere. Putting additional coats over a uncured coat may be yourproblem.I use Watco Danish Oil Finish, an oil/varnish blend. A single coat isusually dry in 24 hours. Pure tung oil seems to take forever.No financial interest etc. Will ----- Original Message ----- rodmakers@mail.wustL.edu Sent:Friday, September 07, 2001 8:17 PMSubject: Tung Oil I have rubbed down the blank then wipe off, and how come tung oil leaves awhite film??? Thanks Dave i too, have used watco on half a dozen rods, and have been very pleased with it's performance.chris -----Original Message-----From: William Jette 2001 10:25 rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: Re: TungOilDave: The following is excerpted from Bob Flexner's book, Understanding Wood Finishing. "Tung oil will turn white if allowed to cure in any thickness; the only way to remove it is to strip it off down to the bare wood." I know from personal experience that it takesseveral coats over a uncured coat may be your problem.I use Watco Danish Oil Finish, an oil/varnish blend. A single coat is usually dry in 24 hours. Pure tung oil seems to take forever.No financial interest Will ----- Original Message ----- From: Davesrods Sent: Friday, September 07, 20018:17 PMSubject: Tung Oil I have rubbed down the blank then wipe off,and Dave from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sat Sep 8 13:37:05 2001 f88Ib3Z08537 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:37:04 -0500 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Tung Oil It's a brand new can, I just had this happen on one tip, so I guess I didnt getall the excess wiped off one section.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:21 AMSubject: Re: Tung Oil I have used tung oil many times and not had this happen. I wonder if it could be contaminated or maybe like lacquer if the humidity is high it will go white. I would get a new supply and try a little out of a fresh can. It's a brand new can, I just had this happen onone ----- Original Message ----- From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 08, 20019:21 AMSubject: Re: Tung OilI have usedtung oil many times and not had this happen. I wonder if it could becontaminated would get a new supply and try a little out of a fresh can. from mrwonder@gte.net Sat Sep 8 18:31:30 2001 f88NVTZ15476 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 18:31:29 -0500 for ; id SAA1832169 Subject: Binders Hello; I am completely new to cane rodbuilding! I hope not to waste the more =experienced readers' time with too many questions. First, I have =purchased a couple of good books, but they provide little information on =the specific technical attributes of building a Garrison Binder. Can =anyone direct me to a source for finding plans? Thank you, James RoanMarysville, WA Hello; I am completely new to cane = to waste the more experienced readers' time with too many questions. = have purchased a couple of good books, but they provide little = the specific technical attributes of building a Garrison Binder. Can = direct me to a source for finding plans? Thank you, James RoanMarysville, =WA from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Sep 8 21:56:45 2001 f892uiZ17674 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:56:44 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:35:08 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fishing Accidents] Paul,sorry to hear of your mishap. Hope you heal quickly, Shawn "paul.blakley" wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Fishing AccidentsDate: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 07:58:35 +0100From: "paul.blakley" All,To those who I have to get back to on the subject of the Jock Scot Taperplease accept my apologies as after this I will be off the 'keyboard', Yesterday I went fishing on the River Swale at Richmond in NorthYorkshire but never quite made it......The river bank collapsed and I fell several feet onto the boulders belowwith the result being several hours in the A&E of a local hospitalsorting out the broken bones.Such is life.........The only 'good'thing to come out of it is what shall I build to replacethe damned Fario Club rod that I smashed in the fall ?Anyhow that said time go ........back soon......I hope.......Paul from ddeloach@pcisys.net Sun Sep 9 00:00:05 2001 f89504Z19316 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 00:00:04 -0500 for ; Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:36:14 -0600 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: Caliper I got the knock-off dial calipers from Harbor Freight and they areincredibly high quality. I was shocked at how nice they looked andfelt--seemed very much worth the $20 I paid. Two years of light use with noproblems Don ----- Original Message -----From: Claude Freaner Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 6:44 PMSubject: Caliper I was looking around on eBay and noticed they had a LOT of newcalipers up for auction, such ashttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1634480721 Are these no-visible-brand-name-probably-made-in-China items anygood, or should I look elsewhere, and if so, what are some suggestedadequate but inexpensive brands to look for? Thanks in advance,Claude from dickay@alltel.net Sun Sep 9 11:53:12 2001 f89GrBZ24452 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:53:11 -0500 Subject: Have I been booted or is it really really slooooow? Have I been booted off the list, or is it really really Sloooow? Only onemessage this morning and it was a reply and I had not received the original.The end of last week my ISP was having some trouble with e-mail, maybethatsit and I will get 100 messages all at once.Dick Fuhrman from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Sep 9 13:04:07 2001 f89I45Z25600 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 13:04:05 -0500 Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:04:03 -0700 Subject: Milward's Book FILETIME=[CF25D440:01C13959] Does anyone out there know where to get Milward's new book? I went to my=local Barnes & Ignoble but they had no listing for it in their computer.=Where do you buy it and how much is it? J. Long Doesanyone ou= J. Long from johanyga@online.no Sun Sep 9 15:34:13 2001 f89KYCZ28410 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 15:34:12 -0500 Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:34:03 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: SV: Milward's Book JohnLast week I got two copies of Milward's book from Russ Gooding(Goldenwitch). I paid $ 46 per copy.In his book Milward says that his book is available directly from:Bob Milward Fly Rods1851 Rufus DriveNorth Vancouver, BC V7J 3L8Canada Johan ----Opprinnelig melding-----Fra: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sendt: 9. september 2001 20:05Til: RodmakersPostEmne: Milward's Book Does anyone out there know where to get Milward's new book? I went to mylocal Barnes & Ignoble but they had no listing for it in their computer.Where do you buy it and how much is it? J. Long JohnLastweek I = Milward Fly Rods Rufus Drive Johan RodmakersPostEmne: Milward's Book J. Long from jojo@ipa.net Sun Sep 9 17:47:55 2001 f89MlsZ00929 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 17:47:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Milward's Book John, Hi! By now someone will surely have responded, but you may get the book = 1851 Rufus Dr.Vancouver, BC = Canada Russ at www.goldenwitch.com has them, as does Darryl Lee at =www.vfish.net See you at SRG! M-D Does anyone out there know where to get Milward's new book? I went to =my local Barnes & Ignoble but they had no listing for it in their =computer. Where do you buy it and how much is it? J. Long John, Hi! By now someone will surely = responded, but you may get the book directly from Bob for, I think, $ = Rufus Dr. Canada as = Darryl Lee at www.vfish.net See you at =SRG! M-D J. Long from Callum.Ross@macquarie.com Sun Sep 9 20:41:01 2001 f8A1exZ04329 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:40:59 -0500 f8A1eVn22287 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:40:31 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:40:59 id ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:40:07 +1000 Subject: Converting from two piece to three. this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I have been thinking about building a 3 piece 7'6" for a five weight and waswondering if anyone had any recommendations. Further to this, how do the makers out there go about converting a twopiece to a three? I know you can run a taper through hexrod, but how do youknow (other than building it) what you are going to get? I guess I am unsureof how well a rod's action will translate and if there is anything I should look curve? Thanks, Callum. Converting from two piece to three. I have been thinking about building a =3 piece 7'6" for a five weight and was wondering if anyone had any =recommendations. Further to this, how do the makers out=there go about converting a two piece to a three? I know you can run a =taper through hexrod, but how do you know (other than building it) what =you are going to get? I guess I am unsure of how well a rod's action =will translate and if there is anything I should look for when doing =this. Is all the emphasis placed on replicating the stress curve? = Thanks, Callum. from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Sun Sep 9 22:38:04 2001 f8A3c3Z06985 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:38:04 -0500 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:38:04 -0700 Subject: Powell Story A very good, but sad, story about the Powells. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/readerscast/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Sep 9 22:40:56 2001 f8A3etZ07254 for ; Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:40:55 -0500 (authenticated) Sun, 9 Sep 2001 20:33:56 -0700 Subject: Re: Converting from two piece to three. --------------A8C57984A2A9DBD3742ABC34 Callum,I've had great success using Hexrod to convert two piecerods into three piece rods, with the slight exception ofparabolic actions. The program seems to account well forthe weight of the extra set of ferrules. I converted theMystery Rod from Grayrock 96 into a three piece and beefedthe tip up just a touch to come up with a great 8' 5weight. I would not hesitate to drop it down 6" to makewhat might be an ideal 7'6" rod.One the other hand, I'm always touting the castingqualities of the Payne 101. though it's a two piece rod, itmight make a nice three piece. Both this one and theMystery rod have fairly fast actions -- powerful butts andlight tips. You might prefer a different action and likesomething more like the Paul Young Perfectionist. Thenagain, you won't go wrong with any of Wayne Cattanach'stapers, or any of Dickersons.Sorry, I haven't narrowed things down much for you, haveI? The good news is that 7'6" 5 weights are among the mostpopular bamboo rods going these days. Harry Callum Ross wrote: I have been thinking about building a 3 piece 7'6" for afive weight and was wondering if anyone had anyrecommendations.Further to this, how do the makers out there go aboutconverting a two piece to a three? --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------A8C57984A2A9DBD3742ABC34 Callum, piece rods into three piece rods, with the slight exception of parabolic 96 into a three piece and beefed the tip up just a touch to come up with what might be an ideal 7'6" rod. different action and like something more like the Paul Young Then again, you won't go wrong with any of Wayne Cattanach's tapers, orany of Dickersons. you, popularbamboo rods going these days. Callum Ross wrote:I have beenthinkingabout building a 3 piece 7'6" for a five weight and was wondering if anyonehad any recommendations.Further to this, how do the makersout there go about converting a two piece to athree?--"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------A8C57984A2A9DBD3742ABC34-- from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Sep 10 00:41:50 2001 f8A5fnZ10096 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 00:41:49 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Powell Story This is a very good and sad story.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Powell Story A very good, but sad, story about the Powells. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/readerscast/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Sep 10 09:06:00 2001 f8AE60Z17215 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:06:00 - Subject: Re: Powell Story You know the sad thing about this is there are people out there just lurking around looking for things like this to jump on and take advantage of honest trusting people. The new business ethics(?) of today are hurray for me and f--k you. Take what you can from whomever you can. It is better to close your company down than to trust anyone to come in as partners, ask me howI know this, and make all sorts of empty promises to you. I will be greatly surprised if the Powell family gets anything out of this except maybe someof their personal items back. I wish them the best of luck and I hope that they are not throwing good money after bad in this lawsuit. I for one know because of Charles Schwab's business ethics here that I will never buy nor endorse anything that has the Powell name on it unless it is directly from the family and I encourage you all to do the same.I had to laugh at the part where it said Robert Redford ASKED Walton to give him a rod and he would give him movie credit for same. As rich as some of these people are and they have to try and get something for free, go figure. If you have not read this article I encourage you to and pass it on to people who are not on the list. You know the sad thingabout this is there are people out there just lurking around looking for things like this to jump on and take advantage ofhonest better to close your company down than to trust anyone to come in as partners, askme how I greatly surprised if the Powell family gets anything out of this except maybesome of that they know because of Charles Schwab's business ethics here that I will never buynor endorse anything that has the Powell name on it unless it is directly from the family and I encourage you all to do the same.I had to laugh at the part where it said Robert Redford ASKED Walton togive as some of these people are and they have to try and get something for free, go If you have not read this article I encourage you to and pass it on topeople who are not on the list. from Canerods@aol.com Mon Sep 10 09:15:35 2001 f8AEFYZ17989 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:15:34 - for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:15:21 - Subject: Bishop Great Western Rodmakers All, In case anyone needs to find the website for the 2001 Great WesternRodmakers Gathering, I've added a link from the old AOL GW website: http://hometown.aol.com/greatwestern2001/index.html To the new website: http://www.orphanlaptops.com/id81/htm site was moved so that I can update it faster. If anyone has anything that needs to be put on the website, please email me at: GreatWestern2001@aol.com Links, JPG's from former GW's or any places to stay - things to do would wil be added ASAP. Don Burns All, In case anyone needs to find the website for the 2001 Great WesternRodmakers Gathering, I've added a link from the old AOL GW website: http://hometown.aol.com/greatwestern2001/index.html To the new website: http://www.orphanlaptops.com/id81/htm site was moved so that I can update it faster. If anyone has anything that needs to be put on the website, please emailme at: GreatWestern2001@aol.com Links, JPG's from former GW's or any places to stay - things to dowould wil be added ASAP. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Sep 10 09:32:22 2001 f8AEWLZ19354 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:32:22 - (5.0.2195;2) Subject: Catskill Gathering 2001 Photos I have posted the photos I took to the gathering web site. Go towww.canerod.comand following the links to the gathering and photo pages. A good time was had by all except for the bait fisherman who didn'tcatch anythingthis year. Chris from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Sep 10 09:51:34 2001 f8AEpXZ20754 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:51:33 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering 2001 Photos Chris, I don't believe that Clara is a natural blonde.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Chris Bogart wrote: I have posted the photos I took to the gathering web site. Go towww.canerod.comand following the links to the gathering and photo pages. A good time was had by all except for the bait fisherman who didn't catchanythingthis year. Chris -- > from homeydklown@att.net Mon Sep 10 12:00:05 2001 Received: frommtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:00:03 +0000 Received: from[199.228.142.8] by webmail.worldnet.att.net; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:00:02 Cc: "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu"Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering 2001 Photos Version 1 (May 2 2001) Message-Id: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Chris, It wasn't from a lackof trying though! [;-)] Dennis I have posted the photos I took to the gathering web site. Go to www.canerod.comand following the links to the gathering and photo pages. A good time was had by all except for the bait fisherman who didn't catch anythingthis year. Chris from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Sep 10 12:28:46 2001 f8AHSjZ03180 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 12:28:45 - (authenticated) Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:21:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Catskill Gathering 2001 Photos Chris Bogart wrote: I have posted the photos I took to the gathering web site. Chris, Nice job, as usual. Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from p.h.e@frisurf.no Mon Sep 10 16:25:22 2001 f8ALPLZ27066 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:25:21 - for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:25:13+0200 (MET DST) Subject: Hexrod convertion Hi. New tread? Since the action is slow, what about more comments onconverting 2 piece rods into 3-piece with Hexrod. Some state that this isnot so successful with parabolic action rods. My humble opinion on thisissue is from trying out a Driggs River converted to 3-wight and 3-piece byDanny Twang using Hexrod. This is a beautiful rod, with maybe a bit deeperaction than the 2-piece he has build for me. Any thoughts on this issue?This rod is a killer, but why the does some state that this convertion onlygoes well with non parabolic action. Has the action of this rod changed? Ihave no experience in judging different taper, only know what I like.PölHE from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Sep 10 17:28:52 2001 f8AMSpZ01637 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:28:51 - (authenticated) Mon, 10 Sep 2001 15:28:41 -0700 Subject: Re: Hexrod convertion Hi PS, I think perhaps I led you down this path. In my own personal experience, Ihave converted one parabolic action rod from two piece to three piece. Thatparticular conversion did not seem to work well. The mid section seemed tobea little softer than it should have been if the parabolic nature of the rod wasto be conserved. Of course, I also dropped the line weight from a six to afour. Still, some folks liked that rod. I just wasn't one of them. Had I explained in a little more detail, I don't think you would have beenconfused. Harry Pöl og Solfrid wrote: Hi. New tread? Since the action is slow, what about more comments onconverting 2 piece rods into 3-piece with Hexrod. Some state that this isnot so successful with parabolic action rods. My humble opinion on thisissue is from trying out a Driggs River converted to 3-wight and 3-piece byDanny Twang using Hexrod. This is a beautiful rod, with maybe a bit deeperaction than the 2-piece he has build for me. Any thoughts on this issue?This rod is a killer, but why the does some state that this convertion onlygoes well with non parabolic action. Has the action of this rod changed? Ihave no experience in judging different taper, only know what I like.PölHE --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bob@downandacross.com Mon Sep 10 17:29:42 2001 f8AMTfZ01759 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:29:41 - Subject: RE: Hexrod convertion I don't think the Driggs is a real parabolic. It may be one of my favorites,but it is very different from a P&M taper or Para 15. I always feel that itcasts great off the tip and then has another "lever" lower that gives itnice power for a 7'2" rod. Maybe that is why the ferrule placement workswhen it is a 3 piece. It stiffens it even more at those crucial points.IMHO,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Hexrod convertion Hi. New tread? Since the action is slow, what about more comments onconverting 2 piece rods into 3-piece with Hexrod. Some state that this isnot so successful with parabolic action rods. My humble opinion on thisissue is from trying out a Driggs River converted to 3-wight and 3-piece byDanny Twang using Hexrod. This is a beautiful rod, with maybe a bit deeperaction than the 2-piece he has build for me. Any thoughts on this issue?This rod is a killer, but why the does some state that this convertion onlygoes well with non parabolic action. Has the action of this rod changed? Ihave no experience in judging different taper, only know what I like.PölHE from lkoeser@ceva.net Mon Sep 10 17:32:54 2001 f8AMWrZ02119 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:32:53 - Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:35:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Converting from two piece to three. Converting from two piece to three.Callum,I am a newbie at cane rod making. One of the seven rods I've constructed =was an eight foot, 6 wt, 2-piece Garrison 212e which I converted to a =three piece without the benefit of Hexrod. It throws a line beautifully. =When I got my own computer, I used Hexrod to compare the 3-piece to the =original. The resulting stress curves were nearly identical. I have also =done a similar conversion of a Garrison 201e, 5 wt, 2- piece into a =4-piece. The resulting curves were identical. The new rod also is a =delight to use. Is Hexrod required for converting identical length rods? =I am not good enough of a rod caster to make that determination. I =believe that conversion to another length or other rod parameter =requires the use of the program. But I'm a retired engineer and like the =technical aspects of Hexrod and will use it in the future for any =conversion, including making another 3-piece 212e. I hope my experience =helps you.Lee Koeser Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 9:38 PMSubject: Converting from two piece to three. I have been thinking about building a 3 piece 7'6" for a five weight =and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations. Further to this, how do the makers out there go about converting a two =piece to a three? I know you can run a taper through hexrod, but how do =you know (other than building it) what you are going to get? I guess I =am unsure of how well a rod's action will translate and if there is =anything I should look for when doing this. Is all the emphasis placed = Converting from two piece to three. Callum,I am a newbie at cane rod = seven rods I've constructed was an eight foot, 6 wt, 2-piece = which I converted to a three piece without the benefit of Hexrod. It = the 3-piece to the original. The resulting stress curves were nearly = I have also done a similar conversion of a Garrison 201e, 5 wt, 2-piece = 4-piece. The resulting curves were identical. The new rod also is a = use. Is Hexrod required for converting identical length rods? I am not = enough of a rod caster to make that determination. I believe that = another length or other rod parameter requires the use of the program. = 212e. I hope my experience helps you.LeeKoeser ----- Original Message ----- Callum Ross Sent: Sunday, September 09, = PMSubject: Converting from two = three. I have been thinking about building a 3 = recommendations.Further to this, how do the makers out = about converting a two piece to a three? I know you can run a taper = hexrod, but how do you know (other than building it) what you are = get? I guess I am unsure of how well a rod's action will translate and = there is anything I should look for when doing this. Is all the = placed on replicating the stress curve? Thanks, from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Sep 10 17:48:41 2001 f8AMmeZ02959 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:48:40 - for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:48:35 - Subject: Re: Converting from 3 piece to a deuce I have gone from 3 to 2 piece, and gone from 8' to 7'6" on the same rod. Turned out to be a rod I was really proud of, being an "almost home-grown" taper.In going two to three I would be concerned with what may happen at the ferrule step down on same tapers, as on some of the the Dickersons. I would think with the Garrison tapers being even dimensions over the ferrule, a successful two to three conversion via hexrod might be more likely. BTW that 201E is a nice taper I've always thought... Rob Hoffhines from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Mon Sep 10 18:11:34 2001 f8ANBXZ03896 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:11:34 - Mon, 10 Sep 2001 16:11:36 PDT Subject: Granger and Heddon temper/coloring processes I understand that Granger used ammonia sulfate gasesto color their rods. Was there another process theyused to temper the rods or remove moisture beforeconstruction? Does the ammonia sulfate gas change theproperties of the bamboo, and/or drive out moisture? Also, what method did Heddon use to remove moistureand get the color these rods show? I'm justinterested in the historical information if you guyshave that, not how to set up a contraption to do this.I know that the set up info. is in the archives.Thanks. Chris M. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Sep 10 19:32:18 2001 f8B0WHZ06733 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:32:17 - (authenticated) for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:32:05 -0700 Subject: Removing Heddon reel seats Hi y'all, This weekend I replaced a grip on an old Heddon #125that I'm refinishing (since I don't have Heddon ferrules itwon't be a restoration). As soon as I got the cork on Irealized that I have no way to steady the reel seat end inthe lathe as it turns. I know, I know, I should havethought of that first. Does anyone know if the butt cap can be safely removedand re-installed? That would make turning the cork gripmuch simpler. Thanks in advance,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Sep 10 19:34:29 2001 f8B0YSZ07004 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:34:28 - Subject: Re: Converting from 3 piece to a deuce I've converted a Garrison 212 from 2 to 3 piece and it turned out prettysweet. I agree on the 201E, by the way. I've made a couple and you should see people's eyes light up when they cast them.......... John K. At 06:48 PM 9/10/01 -0400, Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: I have gone from 3 to 2 piece, and gone from 8' to 7'6" on the same rod.Turned out to be a rod I was really proud of, being an "almost home-grown"taper.In going two to three I would be concerned with what may happen at theferrule step down on same tapers, as on some of the the Dickersons. Iwouldthink with the Garrison tapers being even dimensions over the ferrule, asuccessful two to three conversion via hexrod might be more likely.BTW that 201E is a nice taper I've always thought... Rob Hoffhines from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 19:43:02 2001 f8B0h1Z07585 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:43:02 - RAA22844 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:43:01 - Subject: walton powell I saw the post on the article on the Powell debacle. I deleted the post =before I remembered to bookmark the page. Could someone send me the =link to the article? Thanks, Adam I saw the post on the article on the = Could someone send me the link to the article? Thanks, Adam from bob@downandacross.com Mon Sep 10 20:24:01 2001 f8B1O0Z09648 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:24:00 - Sep 2001 21:24:23 -0400 Subject: Quad ferrules There is a new (maybe the only source) for square ferrules for the quadrods. Contact me for details if you would like more info. I posted a pic ofsome samples I recieved at http://www.downandacross.com/square.jpgI have used the samples with great success on the last few blanks I made. Iam kicking myself for not getting those rods finished in time for theCatskills Gathering (which was awesome!).I have no financial interest in this other than keeping this supplier happy.It may give me a place to get square ferrules for some time.Best regards,Bob Maulucci218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716- 836-8297 home716-867-0523 cellularhttp://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Mon Sep 10 20:29:32 2001 f8B1TVZ10141 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:29:31 - Mon, 10 Sep 2001 18:29:32 PDT Subject: Re: Removing Heddon reel seats Harry, I think those butt caps are glued pretty well,andtrying to remove it might be tough. I had a similarsituation with a Heddon and put a small, thin squareof wood followed by many layers of masking tape overthe butt cap and then centered the point of mytailstock into the tape. The wood (you could use apiece of coffee can lid plastic or whatever) protectedthe butt cap from the point of the tailstock as Itightened it up. The deep layers of tape and layer ofwood held the tailstock point well enough to turn thewhole mess true and I shaped a new grip to theoriginal specs without removing seat or cap. Youwon't be able to exert as much pressure with thissetup, but it might work for you if you don't come upwith a better plan. Chris M. --- Harry Boyd wrote: Hi y'all, This weekend I replaced a grip on an old Heddon#125that I'm refinishing (since I don't have Heddonferrules itwon't be a restoration). As soon as I got the corkon Irealized that I have no way to steady the reel seatend inthe lathe as it turns. I know, I know, I shouldhavethought of that first. Does anyone know if the butt cap can be safelyremovedand re-installed? That would make turning the corkgripmuch simpler. Thanks in advance,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Sep 10 20:43:28 2001 f8B1hRZ10901 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:43:27 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Removing Heddon reel seats Wrap tape around ferrule, awhole bunch past the lip then chuck the ferruleend, and turn your cork.. I do this all the time.. Also if you had inGraphite sections you could shim up the bamboo to go inside the blank or 3/4Pvc will work also.. But what I have learned I turn the new cork handle ona mandrel, because it's very hard to turn a true handle on an old Bamboorod, they are never straight.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ---- - Subject: Removing Heddon reel seats Hi y'all, This weekend I replaced a grip on an old Heddon #125that I'm refinishing (since I don't have Heddon ferrules itwon't be a restoration). As soon as I got the cork on Irealized that I have no way to steady the reel seat end inthe lathe as it turns. I know, I know, I should havethought of that first. Does anyone know if the butt cap can be safely removedand re-installed? That would make turning the cork gripmuch simpler. Thanks in advance,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from eclarke@powersurfr.com Mon Sep 10 20:53:02 2001 f8B1qxZ11483 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:52:59 - 0000 ) Subject: Newbie questions I signed up for this newsletter recently hoping for an occasional tidbitto help me with this 'thing' which was my maternal Grand father's bamboo flyrod. I say 'thing' because I've obviously stumbled upon some rare and wonderfultradition and the whole of it has a scent of my Grandpa's basement - I feelquite reverent. I dug out this bamboo fly-rod of my grandfather's, which has been in mypossession for years (with his steel laker rods and 8" brass spoons!) as Irecently moved to Edmonton Alberta (Canada) and the area is perfect for flyfishing. I have only experienced fly fishing once or twice as a very young man (7 or8 years old) with my Dad and know NOTHING about it apart from dimmemoriesof ' from the elbow (?)' and 'it's not a whip'. I am really after 2 bits of information here (aside from the forbearance ofmy newbie-ism - hence the confession!): 1) Can anyone point me to some VERY beginner info on fly fishing as a whole?I mean "how to tie this $30 line to the reel" and "how to tie the (leader?)to the line" basic. I mean "this is a fly, this is a rod" basic. 2) Can I ask for some advice regarding this rod o'mine - I would very muchlike to fish with it again but not at the risk of it breaking. It only has aguide (ferrule?) at the end - I've attached a picture to the email - it'sperpendicular to the tip - that is - straight out from it as opposed to thetip of my 'regular' rod. The rest of the guides are gone although I can see'the shadow' of where they used to be. The rod itself is in 3 sections, each3' in length and I haven't assembled it as each of the 'connections' arequite snug - I was afraid of getting it stuck and not being able to separatethem. The cork handle is in good shape but I can't fit the tangs of the newreel I bought (Diawa Lochmor-s 200 - $35.00 from the local Army / Navy) . The last section (thinnest) of the rod is warped. perhaps 1" off over the 3'length. It's at least 1965 - that's when my grandfather passed away - but likely50's or much earlier - he was 88 when he died and was an avid sportsmanthroughout Manitoba, Ontario and Scotland (Isle of Lewis and Glasgow) - AlecMurray P.Eng. I searched it from end to end for markings and the only thing on it is thefragment of a green sticker 3/8" by perhaps 1.5" that reads "Best ......k"( the k could be an r)" Made in ......." Where-ever it was made is either abbreviated or has 3 or 4 letters. The partof the label with the readable bits was obscured by some string windings atthe handle end. I've tried to make a picture of it but my web cam isn't upto the detail. Any help / guidance / mentoring you fellows (or ladies - not to be sexist)can offer is very appreciated. I am in less of a hurry to fish with it(Winter is in the air - my attention is more towards upland game and suchnow) than either see it repaired to serviceable or restored to admirable.Ok, I'm lying - I would love to fish with it but I'm in for seeing this doneright. If your advice is to hand it over to a pro to restore or to just hangit in the rec-room, I'm willing to do that too. Thanks (in advance!) , Eric A. ClarkeEdmonton, AlbertaCanada BODY { FONT-SIZE: 14pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 5em; COLOR: #ff9900; FONT- FAMILY:"Comic =Sans MS"} I signed up occasional tidbit to help me with this 'thing' which was my maternal = rod. I say 'thing'= obviously stumbled upon some rare and wonderful tradition and the whole = reverent. I dug outthis = of my grandfather's, which has been in my possession for years (with his = laker rods and 8" brass spoons!) as I recently moved to Edmonton Alberta = (Canada) and the area is perfect for fly fishing. only = fly fishing once or twice as a very young man (7 or 8 years old) with my = know NOTHING about it apart from dim memories of ' from the elbow (?)' = not a whip'. I am reallyafter 2 = information here (aside from the forbearance of my newbie-ism - hence = confession!): 1) Cananyone point = VERY beginner info on fly fishing as a whole? I mean "how to tie this = "this is a fly, this is a rod" basic. 2) advice regarding this rod o'mine - I would very much like to fish with = but not at the risk of it breaking. It only has a guide (ferrule?) at = I've attached a picture to the email - it's perpendicular to the tip - = straight out from it as opposed to the tip of my 'regular' rod. The rest = assembled it as each of the 'connections' are quite snug - I was afraid = getting it stuck and not being able to separate them. The cork handle is = shape but I can't fit the tangs of the new reel I bought (Diawa = $35.00 from the local Army / Navy) . The lastsection = the rod is warped. perhaps 1" off over the 3' =length. It's at least1965 = when my grandfather passed away - but likely 50's or much earlier - he = when he died and was an avid sportsman throughout Manitoba, Ontario and = (Isle of Lewis and Glasgow) - Alec Murray P.Eng. I searched it from = " Made in Where-everit was = readable bits was obscured by some string windings at the handle end. = detail. Any help /guidance = I am in less of a hurry to fish with it (Winter is in the air - my = serviceable or restored to admirable. Ok, I'm lying - I would love to = it but I'm in for seeing this done right. If your advice is to hand it = too. Eric A.Clarke from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Mon Sep 10 21:42:06 2001 f8B2g5Z13948 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:42:05 - Subject: Catskill 2001 gathering Hello All, Just a little note to let everyone know that Nancy ,Cody, and myself had agreat time and hopefully ,with a little better planning, I won't have tomiss Sunday at next years gathering. This being my first year building bamboo,it is a learning exercise.EverytimeI attend a gatherring,something new and usefull is obtained. All are veryhelpful and willing to share their knowledge. Before I forget,Iwould like to thank Tom Whittle for letting me in at thelast minute. Tom ,you folks did a great job with everything. Thank you. I would also like to thank the Medved's,both Carole and Al for bringingtheir good looking pooch,Clara,for Cody to hang around with. He still has atwinkle in his eye. Carole , I asked Nancy if she had forgotten a coat and she says no. I'll betthe owner shows up the first kool day we have. On that note , I will say good nite and hope all made it home safe. Thank you ,The Christman's from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 23:06:44 2001 f8B46hZ17552 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:06:43 - f8B46ef18339 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2001 21:06:40 - Subject: Thank all for Walts article Thanks to the many that sent the link for the article on Walton Powell. = Many admired him others aggravated by him. While in his last days his =strength decreases and his light dimming he looks for a confidant to =help him continue his legacy. He found such a person who was able to = Yet as the great man turns his back and in a moment of weakness his ally =and friend takes his power and kingdom only to claim it as his own. The =betrayer hopes in time by using the great mans name as his own all will =forget the truth, as well as the banished old man who no longer has a = I think truth is a powerful weapon. And cockroaches run and hide when =the light of truth is put on them. I for one will remember Walton =Powell and I also will not forget who it was that took his name. Adam Vigil Thanks to the many that sent the link = It is kind of a of a Greek tragedy. = A great man who with strong = talents creates a legacy. Many admired him others aggravated by= his last days his strength decreases and his light dimming he looks for = confidant to help him continue his legacy. He found such a person who = to gain his confidence and promise his loyalty. Yet as the great man turns his backand = moment of weakness his ally and friend takes his power and kingdom only = who no longer has a name of his own. will remember Walton Powell and I also will not forget who it was that = name. AdamVigil from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Sep 11 05:32:53 2001 f8BAWqZ24799 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:32:52 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4157. . Clean. Processed in 0.182627 secs); 11 Sep 200110:32:09 -0000 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Removing Heddon reel seats none wrote: Hi Harry, I have successfully removed several Heddon seats . There is apin going thru the butt cap that also goes thru the plug. You mustremove this first which because it does not go all the way thru is noeasy feat. Because the pin does not go thru any part of the rod blankitself (it holds ns cap and butt plug to barrel only)it is easier toremove the whole seat itself. Heat it up slowly with a heat gun and itwill break loose. The seat extends a couple inches past the rod blank sothere is no need to heat the last couple inches of the seat. Another wayis to make a pocket out of wood to hold the seat in the tailstock as youturn the blank in the lathe. I have done this before also. Best, Marty Harry Boyd wrote: Hi y'all, This weekend I replaced a grip on an old Heddon #125that I'm refinishing (since I don't have Heddon ferrules itwon't be a restoration). As soon as I got the cork on I realized that I have no way to steady the reel seat end inthe lathe as it turns. I know, I know, I should havethought of that first. Does anyone know if the butt cap can be safely removedand re-installed? That would make turning the cork gripmuch simpler. Thanks in advance,Harry --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Tue Sep 11 07:03:10 2001 f8BC3AZ25635 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:03:10 - Subject: cat test test test from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Tue Sep 11 07:08:28 2001 f8BC8SZ25839 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:08:28 - Subject: test test test from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 07:42:59 2001 f8BCgwZ26543 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:42:58 - Subject: Re: Thank all for Walts article "FRIEND" how could you even call charles "the snake" schwab a friend to Walt. This guy is the lowest of the low. To be taken in by someone as a friend and then to be betrayed by the one taken in. I hope that they get some kind of restitution from this. "FRIEND" how could youeven call charles "the snake" schwab a friend to Walt. someone as a friend some kind of restitution from this. from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Sep 11 07:52:58 2001 f8BCqvZ26858 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:52:57 - IAA06519; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Payne article - lost COuld someone out there please post the Payne article again?Thanks, dws. from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Sep 11 08:16:55 2001 f8BDGsZ28438 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:16:54 - for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:16:46 - Subject: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Subject: Twin Towers - Terrorists Turn on your TV...2 planes have crashed into the twin towers in =NYC...9:00 am. ESTEd From: Riddle Jim =Sykes ; Jim =Stout ; JD ;Bill = Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:15 AMSubject: Twin Towers - Terrorists Turn on your TV...2 planes havecrashed = twin towers in NYC...9:00 am. ESTEd from Canerods@aol.com Tue Sep 11 09:45:20 2001 f8BEjJZ01330 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:45:19 - for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:45:07 - Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Let's offer our prayers to those murdered today. Then let's pray that our government has the balls to hunt down the cowardly bastards that did this and squashes them like bugs. The low-life SOB's would be drawn and quartered and feed their male organs if I was king. Don Burns Let's offer our prayersto those murdered today. Then let's pray that our government has the balls to hunt down thecowardly bastards that did this and squashes them like bugs. The low-life SOB'swould be drawn and quartered and feed their male organs if I was king. Don Burns from patrick.w.coffey@Boeing.com Tue Sep 11 09:52:14 2001 f8BEqEZ01712 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:52:14 - HAA07473; HAA09224; f8BEq8V06392; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:52:08 -0700 Subject: RE: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists this will never happen, all the bleeding heart liberals will just complainthat those people who did this are just misunderstood and should be givensome sort of government aid. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Let's offer our prayers to those murdered today. Then let's pray that our government has the balls to hunt down thecowardly bastards that did this and squashes them like bugs. The low-life SOB'swould be drawn and quartered and feed their male organs if I was king. Don Burns from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Sep 11 10:14:01 2001 f8BFE1Z02565 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:14:01 - id ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:08:20 -0400 id RDBTH6Q6; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:08:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists something like this. With Dick Cheney and Colin Powell at his side, Ibelieve that President Bush will stop at nothing to get at the peopleresponsible. May the "bleeding heart liberals" be condemned as thecowards they are if they stand in the way. As Don said, let's pray notonly for the victims of the attacks and their families, but for ourleaders (at least for us in the US) to have discernment and goodjudgement. May God bless America in our time of need. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: this will never happen, all the bleeding heart liberals will just complainthat those people who did this are just misunderstood and should be givensome sort of government aid. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Let's offer our prayers to those murdered today. Then let's pray that our government has the balls to hunt down thecowardlybastards that did this and squashes them like bugs. The low-life SOB'swouldbe drawn and quartered and feed their male organs if I was king. Don Burns -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htm genealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm >FromGrhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 10:14:19 2001 Received: from imo- f8BFEIZ02658 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 4.152.d73a88 (4561); Tue, 11 Sep Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:14:00 EDT 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- band are in the Manhattan area as they were supposed to be playing a bigshow there this weekend. Please pray that they are OK and that they willmake it back to Indiana. I have put in calls to them to head this way and to be 7bit Guys, My sonand his band are in the Manhattan area as they were supposed to be to them to head this way and to be extra careful. Thanks, from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 10:25:05 2001 Received: from imo- f8BFP5Z03486 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id p.ce.1a270e3b (4561); Tue, 11 Sep Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:24:25 EDT patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- can understand how our fathers and grandfathers were so quick to enlist inthe service and go fight for our Country -- how our fathers and grandfathers were so quick to enlist in the serviceand go fight for our Country -- Sep 11 10:45:00 2001 Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net , References:Subject: Re: Thank all for Walts article rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part message printable I am with you on this. For the record I referenced "Schwab" as afriend = only because Walt did. Maybe a little complaining to variousmagazines = about their advertiser Powel Rod Co. might make them squirm a September 11, 2001 5:42 AM Subject: Re: Thank all for Walts article"FRIEND" how could you even call charles "the snake" schwab a friend = to I am with you on bit. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September "FRIEND" = this. = ------ Tue Sep 11 10:56:08 2001 Received: from wilson.acpub.duke.edu Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:54:57 -0400 Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, X- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, "'Canerods@aol.com'" Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists References:Content- earsdws@duke.edu Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Truepatriots and Americans will join together - I might suggest those who areusing this as an opportunity to bang "bleeding heart" liberals stick a sock init. You help nothing, no one except those who did this by highlighting and,causing divisions in our ranks. Todd Talsma wrote: something like this. With Dick Cheney and Colin Powell at his side, Ibelieve that President Bush will stop at nothing to get at the peopleresponsible. May the "bleeding heart liberals" be condemned as thecowards they are if they stand in the way. As Don said, let's pray notonly for the victims of the attacks and their families, but for ourleaders (at least for us in the US) to have discernment and goodjudgement. May God bless America in our time of need. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: this will never happen, all the bleeding heart liberals will just complainthat those people who did this are just misunderstood and should begivensome sort of government aid. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Let's offer our prayers to those murdered today. Then let's pray that our government has the balls to hunt down thecowardlybastards that did this and squashes them like bugs. The low-life SOB'swouldbe drawn and quartered and feed their male organs if I was king. Don Burns --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 11:06:24 2001 f8BG6NZ06006 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:06:23 - Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Canerods@aol.com Have you guys seen the stuff from the East Bank and the Palestinians. They are dancing in the streets and passing out candy to passerby's. I used to have sympathy for what was going on over there as I follow it closely, but now I may have to rethink my sympathy for anybody from Palestine. Have you guys seen the used to have sympathy for what was going on over there as I follow it closely,but now I may have to rethink my sympathy for anybody fromPalestine. from stoltz10@home.com Tue Sep 11 11:07:11 2001 f8BG7AZ06178 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:07:10 - femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: re: world trade center Mister Coffey's comment about "bleeding-heart liberals" is very ignorant =and offensive. To suggest that any American would condone this action =is deplorable. Mister Coffey's comment about = American would condone this action is =deplorable. from la.metaal@quicknet.nl Tue Sep 11 11:14:37 2001 f8BGEaZ06809 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:14:36 - "HELO Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:14:15 +0200 Subject: america under attack Dear all, My wife and I in The Netherlands are outraged by what happened today andmourn for the unnecessary loss of lives in this disgusting attack. Life inHolland has come to a standstill as everyone is still trying to comprehendwhat has happened and cries for the victims.May the United States of America government track down the peopleresponsible and all other organisations and governments that stand forterrorism and finish them off. Our sympathy goes to all families of the victims and the American People. Rens and Cheng MetaalRotterdamThe Netherlands Dear =all, My wife andI in = Netherlands are outraged by what happened today and mourn for the = standstill as everyone is still trying to comprehend what has happened = May theUnited = America government track down the people responsible and all other = off. Oursympathy goes = families of the victims and the American People. Rens and MetaalRotterdam Netherlands from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 11:20:42 2001 f8BGKfZ07325 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:20:41 - Subject: Re: world trade center I really do not think that PC meant it in the way it came out. As most of you know there is a certain faction (?) in the United States that thinks that we should just turn the other cheek and not retaliate against any kind of aggression against us. I DO NOT think any of us on this list DESERVE to be called ignorant in any sense and that before this kind of language is put here RETHINK what you are about to say. THIMK before you push the send button. Bret I really do not think that certain faction (?) in the United States that thinks that we should just turnthe other cheek and not retaliate against any kind of aggression against us. any sense and that before this kind of language is put here RETHINK what you Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 11:23:21 2001 f8BGNLZ07644 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:23:21 - Subject: Re: america under attack Anyone who lives in the CIVILIZED world would take great umbrage to anyacts of this source. Thank you for your thoughts and concerns. I am sure we all are having a hard time with this right now.Bret Anyone who lives in theCIVILIZED world would take great umbrage to any acts are having a hard time with this right now.Bret from patrick.w.coffey@Boeing.com Tue Sep 11 11:41:01 2001 f8BGf0Z08548 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:41:00 - JAA14950; JAA29483; f8BGexV23609; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:40:56 -0700 "'Grhghlndr@aol.com'" Subject: RE: world trade center I'm at work today in a building with about 2000 people working in it andlistening to the comments going on around me, I've noticed that the samepeople that feel that sex offenders and murderers are just misunderstoodandshould be aloud to go back into the general public population, are sayingthat we should do nothing about this. I was born in Honolulu in the 40's andthe same type of people felt that we should do nothing about that also. Iguess you cant understand this till it happens to your home and family. I'mnot in New York, I don't have love ones in those buildings but likeAmericans after Pearl Harbor I'm mad about this cowardly attack and feelthat people who do those things should be delt with. If I have offendedanybody for calling them a bleeding heart liberal I apologize for this. I myself am a liberal thinker being a old hippie but I guess I cut close to thebone and offended them Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: world trade center I really do not think that PC meant it in the way it came out. As most ofyou know there is a certain faction (?) in the United States that thinksthat we should just turn the other cheek and not retaliate against anykind of aggression against us. I DO NOT think any of us on this listDESERVE to be called ignorant in any sense and that before this kind oflanguage is put here RETHINK what you are about to say. THIMK before youpush the send button. Bret from stoltz10@home.com Tue Sep 11 11:53:19 2001 f8BGrIZ09259 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:53:18 - femail26.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: re: wold trade center Patrick, the comment to suggest any American regardless of the politics =would sit idol was what bothered me. I agree whole heatedly with you =that America as a whole should not sit idol and that those who are =responsible for this cowardly act towards the U.S.A. must and will be =held accountable. I meant no offence towards you personally. Tim = whole heatedly with you that America as a whole should not sit idol and = personally. Tim from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Sep 11 12:10:25 2001 f8BHAPZ10117 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:10:25 - for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:10:25 -0400 Subject: America under attack As a veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S. People)bringa full military response to bear upon the aggressors, who ever they =might be.It's time to wake up. The attack was coordinated and has a ring of =military operation to it. To only look for one person responsible, would =(in my opinion) be a mistake. It's obvious that this type of thing takes =much more than the planning of one mad man. As American's we need to be =careful NOT to blame any one ethnic group. But once we find out what =country was to blame ,than they should pay. After all isn't it the =responsibility of that country to make sure thatthese people aren't aloud to surface. I have never fought in a war and =have only seen limited things during my tour in the Navy. But If it =meant going to war over this ,than so be it. Some things are worth =fighting for. I'm also very mad.This Country is worth fighting for. The people who lost their lives are =worthfighting for. Our Freedom is worth fighting for. And LET NO ONE TAKE IT =AWAY.My prayers go out to the families of this tragedy and I pray that no one = from the list has any loss on this sad day.Tony Miller BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} As a veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S. =People)bringa full military response to bear upon the aggressors, who ever they = be.It's time to wake up. The attack was coordinated and has a ring of = operation to it. To only look for one person responsible, would (in my = be a mistake. It's obvious that this type of thing takes much more than = planning of one mad man. As American's we need to be careful NOT to = one ethnic group. But once we find out what country was to blame ,than = should pay. After all isn't it the responsibility of that country to = that war and have only seen limited things during my tour in the Navy. But If = meant going to war over this ,than so be it. Some things are worth = I'm also very mad.This Country is worth fighting for. The people who lost their lives = worthfighting for. Our Freedom is worth fighting for. And LET NO ONE = AWAY. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 11 12:12:02 2001 f8BHC1Z10376 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:12:01 - Subject: Twin Towers - Terrorists I really hope none on this list nor friends nor families are involved with this murder, probably act of war on a massive scale in LA and Washington and hopefully no where else. I've been watching CNN since the story broke and frankly, I'm shocked. There are going to be a hell of a lot of fired up people on list relating to this and I must say there are huge cultural differences between Americans/Europeans/ Aussies etc and it should be assumed that any postson this list in any case will be positive and supportive so would everybody pause a second or two before replying to what in a moment of passion may read differently to the spirit the message was written in. Bret, heres to luck you're not involved. In fact, here's to all. Tony from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 12:20:34 2001 f8BHKXZ11029 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:20:33 - Subject: My son in NY Thanks to all who have expressed concern for my son being out there. Hehas called me on the phone and said they are OK. I told him I talked to the people from the label he is signed with and they told me to tell the boys to get in their tour van and head for the Midwest. The CMJ Festival is going to be canceled in Midtown Manhattan this weekend. Bret Thanks to all who have the people from the label he is signed with and they told me to tell the boysto is going to Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 12:46:44 2001 f8BHkhZ12742 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:46:43 - Subject: NYC I was just talking to my son on the phone and he told me about something weird that happened to him and his friends last night in NYC. He told me an Arab looking guy came up to them and told them to not take any flights along the East coast in the next couple of days because winter was coming early to NY. Weird. I was just talking to myson on the phone and he told me about something told me an Arab looking guy came up to them and told them to not take any flightsalong the East coast in the next couple of days because winter was comingearly to from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Sep 11 12:50:18 2001 f8BHoHZ13117 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:50:17 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:41:50 -0500 Subject: RE: NYC That's something the authorities need to hear.-----Original Message----- Subject: NYC I was just talking to my son on the phone and he told me about something weird that happened to him and his friends last night in NYC. He told me an Arab looking guy came up to them and told them to not take any flights along the East coast in the next couple of days because winter was coming early to NY. Weird. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 11 12:53:39 2001 f8BHrbZ13496 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:53:37 - Subject: RE: NYC Damn right. At 12:49 PM 9/11/01 -0500, Miller, Troy wrote: That's something the authorities need to hear.-----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: NYC I was just talking to my son on the phone and he told me about somethingweird that happened to him and his friends last night in NYC. He told me an Arab looking guy came up to them and told them to not take any flightsalong the East coast in the next couple of days because winter was coming earlyto NY. Weird. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 11 13:01:21 2001 f8BI1FZ14132 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:01:16 - Subject: Re: America under attack No question about it, this IS something to fight for. Assuming it's Afghanistan which it may be even though there was dancing in the streets in Palistine.We here have seen the effects of this place for some time now becausethere are literally thousands of people from these places arriving here with no sign of it stopping, some of the policies used lately relating to these arrivals have drawn flack but the problems in the countries these people are fleeing are beyond comprehension and the numbers are increasing. Something very bad is going one to be causing this.The problem is though there are a lot arriving who are not refugees and there is fear of 5th columnists even though Aust is obviously not a significant target. You in the US are likely getting the same plus the terrorist attacks.There is no doubt in my mind this is an evil the same as Nazism or Communism in it's worst form. In this form it's spread almost accidently by way of for whatever reason making the lives of it's own populations so bad fanatics takes root and normal people have to take it bent over a table.I also think there comes a time to roll up the sleeves and take action directly once the people behind this are found and notnot try to sow the seeds of popular uprising or assist bordering countries but do it right by the people who know how to do it and who to do it to. Tony At 01:10 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: As a veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S. People)bringa full military response to bear upon the aggressors, who ever they mightbe.It's time to wake up. The attack was coordinated and has a ring of military operation to it. To only look for one person responsible, would (in my opinion) be a mistake. It's obvious that this type of thing takes much more than the planning of one mad man. As American's we need to be careful NOT to blame any one ethnic group. But once we find out what country was to blame ,than they should pay. After all isn't it the responsibility of that country to make sure thatthese people aren't aloud to surface. I have never fought in a war and have only seen limited things during my tour in the Navy. But If it meant going to war over this ,than so be it. Some things are worth fighting for. I'm also very mad.This Country is worth fighting for. The people who lost their lives are worthfighting for. Our Freedom is worth fighting for. And LET NO ONE TAKE ITAWAY.My prayers go out to the families of this tragedy and I pray that no one from the list has any loss on this sad day. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html > from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 13:19:09 2001 f8BIJ8Z15348 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:19:08 - Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:19:10 PDT Subject: Re: America under attack Tony, I'm here on the East Coast, only about 140 miles from NYC. Reports are trickling in about friends ofpeople I work with and so far only one fatality hasbeen confirmed. But, I've got to say this has been ascary day. The fanatics that did this wanted to createfear, confusion and all around chaos. Theysucceeded,... but they know not what they haveawakened. If there desire is to go to heaven orwhatever they call the afterlife, in a dramatic way. Isay we oblige them. The next few days will tell. Bill Walters--- Tony Young wrote: No question about it, this IS something to fightfor. Assuming it's Afghanistan which it may be even though there wasdancing in the streets in Palistine.We here have seen the effects of this place for sometime now because there are literally thousands of people from these placesarriving here with no sign of it stopping, some of the policies usedlately relating to these arrivals have drawn flack but the problems in thecountries these people are fleeing are beyond comprehension and the numbersare increasing. Something very bad is going one to be causing this.The problem is though there are a lot arriving whoare not refugees and there is fear of 5th columnists even though Aust isobviously not a significant target. You in the US are likely gettingthe same plus the terrorist attacks.There is no doubt in my mind this is an evil thesame as Nazism or Communism in it's worst form. In this form it'sspread almost accidently by way of for whatever reason making the lives of it'sown populations so bad fanatics takes root and normal people have to takeit bent over a table.I also think there comes a time to roll up thesleeves and take action directly once the people behind this are found andnotnot try to sow the seeds of popular uprising orassist bordering countries but do it right by the people who know how to do it and who to do it to. Tony At 01:10 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Tony Miller wrote: As a veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S. People)bring a full military response to bear upon the aggressors, who ever they might be. It's time to wake up. The attack was coordinated and has a ring of military operation to it. To only look for one person responsible, would (in my opinion) be a mistake. It's obvious that this type of thing takes much more than the planning of one mad man. As American's we need to be careful NOT to blame any one ethnic group. But once we find out what country was to blame ,than they should pay. After all isn't it the responsibility of that country to make sure thatthese people aren't aloud to surface. I have never fought in a war and have only seen limited things during my tour in the Navy. But If it meant going to war over this ,than so be it. Some things are worth fighting for. I'm also very mad.This Country is worth fighting for. The people who lost their lives are worth fighting for. Our Freedom is worth fighting for. And LET NO ONE TAKE IT AWAY. My prayers go out to the families of this tragedy and I pray that no one from the list has any loss on this sad day. Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Tue Sep 11 13:31:58 2001 f8BIVvZ16446 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:31:58 - id ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:28:22 -0400 Subject: terrorism this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. It's hard to know what to think, what to say. Our university campus hasclosed; people are walking around, stunned at the news. So insidious; sodisturbing-you'd want to declare war, but against whom? Where? No nation(except as a possible host and sponsor of such terrorism); no militaryattack, but an infiltration of public transportation. So simple, really,and so frightening. And enraging, yes. I take note of the many expressionsof support, anger, empathy on this list. Bret, especially-very glad to hearyour son is safe and on his way home. We may not here for some time to come have as open a society as we haveenjoyed until this morning; there may be many kinds of sacrifice for agreater good; but it is hard to see past today at the moment. Lots ofthings-and people--worth fighting for, for sure. Whatever can be done tooto stop producing such misery in the world-there is terrorism in so manyplaces-seems today like a good, but awesome, effort. Tom CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} It's hard to know what to think, what to say.=A0 Our university campus has closed;=people arewalking around, stunned at the news.=A0 Soinsidious; so disturbing-you'd want to declare war, but againstwhom?=A0 Where?=A0 No nation (except as a possible =host andsponsor of such terrorism); no military attack, but an infiltration of =publictransportation.=A0 Sosimple, really, and so frightening.=A0And enraging, yes.=A0 I take note of the many =expressions ofsupport, anger, empathy on this list.=A0Bret, especially-very glad to hear your son is safe and on his =wayhome. We may not here for some time to come have as open a =societyas we have enjoyed until this morning; there may be many kinds of =sacrifice fora greater good; but it is hard to see past today at the moment.=A0 Lots of =things-and people--worthfighting for, for sure.=A0 =Whatevercan be done too to stop producing such misery in the world-there isterrorism in so many places-seems today like a good, but awesome, =effort. Tom from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Sep 11 13:34:11 2001 f8BIYAZ16746 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:34:10 - ;Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:34:06 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" (5.0.2195;2) Subject: Re: NYC --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4998416=_=_=_ I have been watching the smoke plume from NYC all morning from workin NJ until they told us to go home - Everything is locked down and security checksare in placeeverywhere. We have accounted for most of our people but a number havefriends andrelatives that work in the World Trade Towers - est 10,000 people work ineach tower plus5,000 visitors each day. I am listening to the NY radio station and theycannot get closeto the rubble because of the fires to rescue any surrivers. A couple of ourpeople werein the Pentagon at the time of the attack and they called in OK. Just a longsad day. Chris --Original Message Text--- I was just talking to my son on the phone and he told me about something weird that happened to him and his friends last night in NYC. He told me an Arab looking guy came up to them and told them to not take any flights along the East coast in the next couple of days because winter was coming early to NY. Weird. --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4998416=_=_=_ I have been watching the smoke plume from NYC all morning from work in NJ until they told us to go home - Everything is locked down and security checksare in placeeverywhere. We have accounted for most of our people but a number havefriends andrelatives that work in the World Trade Towers - est 10,000 people work ineach tower plus5,000 visitors each day. I am listening to the NY radio station and theycannot get closeto the rubble because of the fires to rescue any surrivers. A couple of ourpeople werein the Pentagon at the time of the attack and they called in OK. Just a longsad day. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Grhghlndr@aol.comDate: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:46:27 EDT I was just talking to myson on the phone and he told me about something weird that happened to him and his friends last night in NYC. He told me an Arab looking guy came up to them and told them to not take any flights along the East coast in the next couple of days because winter was coming early to NY. Weird. --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4998416=_=_=_-- from anglport@con2.com Tue Sep 11 13:36:26 2001 f8BIaPZ17104 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:36:25 - Subject: Re: America under attack Well,I guess I'm the guy-on-the-ground here, so I'll chime in and say =that if you weren't where the explosions were, being close is no =advantage for information over being far away. We probably are getting =less info than you guys all over the world. There are at least 9 TV =stations for the NY Metropolitan area and they ALL use the top of the =towers for their antennae. We were receiving broadcasts over only the =CBS affiliate until several hours after the initial hits until ABC = The nice thing about the Web is that relatives from far away used =e-mail to find out our circumstances, as the phone system is a royal =mess! I hear there are NO cell phone services. I know a couple of =members on the list reside in downtown Manhattan but I think they're =enough blocks away from that area that they're safe. I can't remember =their names right now, either.Anyway, from "ground zero", NY seems to be coping as well as can be = Art Subject: America under attack As a veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S. People)bringa full military response to bear upon the aggressors, who ever they =might be.It's time to wake up. The attack was coordinated and has a ring of =military operation to it. To only look for one person responsible, would =(in my opinion) be a mistake. It's obvious that this type of thing takes =much more than the planning of one mad man. As American's we need to be =careful NOT to blame any one ethnic group. But once we find out what =country was to blame ,than they should pay. After all isn't it the =responsibility of that country to make sure thatthese people aren't aloud to surface. I have never fought in a war and =have only seen limited things during my tour in the Navy. But If it =meant going to war over this ,than so be it. Some things are worth =fighting for. I'm also very mad.This Country is worth fighting for. The people who lost their lives =are worthfighting for. Our Freedom is worth fighting for. And LET NO ONE TAKE =IT AWAY.My prayers go out to the families of this tragedy and I pray that no =one from the list has any loss on this sad day.Tony Miller BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Well, guy-on-the-ground here, so I'll chime in and say that if you weren't = explosions were, being close is no advantage for information over being = away. We probably are getting less info than you guys all over the = are at least 9 TV stations for the NY Metropolitan area and they ALL use = of the towers for their antennae. We were receiving broadcasts over only = affiliate until several hours after the initial hits until ABC worked a = with one of the NJ UHF stations to use their facilities. about = that relatives from far away used e-mail to find out our circumstances, = phone system is a royal mess! I hear there are NO cell phone services. I = couple of members on the list reside in downtown Manhattan but I think = enough blocks away from that area that they're safe. I can't remember = names right now, either. "ground = seems to be coping as well as can be hoped. Art ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Tuesday, September 11, = PMSubject: America under =attack words.As a veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S. =People)bringa full military response to bear upon the aggressors, who ever = be.It's time to wake up. The attack was coordinated and has a ring = military operation to it. To only look for one person responsible, = my opinion) be a mistake. It's obvious that this type of thing takes = than the planning of one mad man. As American's we need to be careful = blame any one ethnic group. But once we find out what country was to = ,than they should pay. After all isn't it the responsibility of that = to make sure that war and have only seen limited things during my tour in the Navy. But = meant going to war over this ,than so be it. Some things are worth = for. I'm also very mad.This Country is worth fighting for. The people who lost their = worthfighting for. Our Freedom is worth fighting for. And LET NO ONE = AWAY. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from beadman@mac.com Tue Sep 11 13:37:01 2001 f8BIb1Z17226 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:37:01 - Subject: Give Blood from a friend on another flyfishing listserv. "Yes: give blood. If you want to help with this current situation, that's what you need to do. Now. On your lunch break. This evening. Tomorrow morning. As soon as youcan. If the Red Cross runs out of blood this is going to get even uglier. Thanks, Chris" I agree with Chris - if you can, please give blood today - it will help! Claudebeadman@mac.comcfreaner@hq.nasa.gov from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Sep 11 13:40:34 2001 f8BIeVZ17729 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:40:32 - Subject: Re: terrorism You'd be beaten if the society doesn't remain open and free. At 02:28 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Goodmann, Tom wrote: It's hard to know what to think, what to say. Our university campus has closed; people are walking around, stunned at the news. So insidious; so disturbing-you'd want to declare war, but against whom? Where? No nation (except as a possible host and sponsor of such terrorism); no military attack, but an infiltration of public transportation. So simple, really, and so frightening. And enraging, yes. I take note of the many expressions of support, anger, empathy on this list. Bret, especially-very glad to hear your son is safe and on his way home. We may not here for some time to come have as open a society as we have enjoyed until this morning; there may be many kinds of sacrifice for a greater good; but it is hard to see past today at the moment. Lots of things-and people--worth fighting for, for sure. Whatever can be done too to stop producing such misery in the world-there is terrorism in so many places-seems today like a good, but awesome, effort. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Sep 11 13:50:30 2001 f8BIoTZ18846 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:50:29 - (authenticated) Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:50:13 -0700 Subject: Re: NYC --------------734D7FB08890C0D09315E157 Chris Bogart wrote: I have been watching the smoke plume from NYC all morning from work in NJuntil they told us to go home - Everything is locked downand security checks are in placeeverywhere. We have accounted for most of our people but anumber have friends andrelatives that work in the World Trade Towers - est 10,000people work in each tower plus5,000 visitors each day. I am listening to the NY radiostation and they cannot get closeto the rubble because of the fires to rescue anysurrivers. A couple of our people werein the Pentagon at the time of the attack and they calledin OK. Just a long sad day. Chris,Our prayers are with you and your friends and co-workersas well... Harry --Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------734D7FB08890C0D09315E157 Chris Bogart wrote:I havebeenwatching the smoke plume from NYC all morning from work inNJuntil they told us to go home- Everything is locked down and security checks are in placeeverywhere. We haveaccounted relatives that work in theWorld Trade Towers - est 10,000 people work in each towerplus5,000 visitors each day. Iam listening to the NY radio station and they cannot getcloseto the rubble because of thefires to rescue any surrivers. A couple of our people werein the Pentagon at the timeof the attack and they called in OK. Just a long sad day. Chris, workersas well... --Harry Boyd"Simon Peter saith unto them, I goa fishing..." Bamboo Rods Our Church --------------734D7FB08890C0D09315E157-- from Canerods@aol.com Tue Sep 11 14:02:28 2001 f8BJ2RZ19653 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:02:27 - Subject: Re: Give Blood I'll of to the Red Cross now. I'll of to the Red Crossnow. from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Sep 11 14:13:47 2001 f8BJDkZ20450 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:13:46 - ;Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:13:42 +0000 (5.0.2195;2) Subject: Re: NYC --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4998448=_=_=_ Harry I got a small TV set tuned to the local UHF station with the latestnews. The regularVHF TV broadcast TV stations are off the air since their transmitters wereon top of the towers.They now estimate as many as 200 NY firefighters were lost in the collapse -just incredible. Chris --Original Message Text--- Chris Bogart wrote: I have been watching the smoke plume from NYC allmorning from work in NJ until they told us to go home - Everything is locked down and security checksare in place everywhere. We have accounted for most of our people but a number havefriends and relatives that work in the World Trade Towers - est 10,000 people work ineach tower plus 5,000 visitors each day. I am listening to the NY radio station and theycannot get close to the rubble because of the fires to rescue any surrivers. A couple of ourpeople were in the Pentagon at the time of the attack and they called in OK. Just a longsad day. Chris, Our prayers are with you and your friends and co-workers as well... Harry -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ OurChurch --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4998448=_=_=_ Content-Type: Harry I got a small TV set tuned to the local UHFstation with the latest news. The regular VHF TV broadcast TV stationsare off the air since their transmitters were on top of the towers.They now estimate as many as 200 NY firefighters were lost in the collapse -just incredible. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Harry Boyd Date: Tue, 11 Sep 200113:47:17 -0500 Chris Bogart wrote: I have been watching thesmoke plume from NYC all morning from work in NJ until they told us togo home - Everything is locked down and security checks are in place everywhere. We have accounted for most of our people but a number havefriends and relatives that work in the World Trade Towers - est 10,000people work in each tower plus 5,000 visitors each day. I am listeningto the NY radio station and they cannot get close to the rubble becauseof the fires to rescue any surrivers. A couple of our people were in thePentagon at the time of the attack and they called in OK. Just a long sad day.Chris, Our prayers are with you and yourfriends and co-workers as well... Harry -- Harry Boyd "Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..." http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church -- _=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4998448=_=_=_-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Sep 11 14:15:09 2001 Received: f8BJF8Z20665 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:11:50 -0300 Message-ID: Date:Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:18:35 -0400 From: Shawn PineoOrganization: New Scotland Fly Rods X-Mailer: Grhghlndr@aol.com CC: Canerods@aol.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists References:Content-Type: multipart/alternative; nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------ --------C1D050916AA1FF37E0AA86B6 Content-Type: text/plain; are redirecting allot of the flights here to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Let me knowif he gets redirected here, I'll make sure he gets taken care of (if I'm stillhere as I'm on standby with the Canadian Forces as we speak.) ShawnGrhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Guys,My son and his band are in the Manhattan area as they were supposed to beplaying a big show there this weekend. Please pray that they are OK andthatthey will make it back to Indiana. I have put in calls to them to head thisway and to be extra careful. Thanks,Bret --------------C1D050916AA1FF37E0AA86B6 Bret (and others), allotof the flights here to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Let me know if he gets redirectedhere, I'll make sure he gets taken care of (if I'm still here as I'm onstandby with the Canadian Forces as we speak.) Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Guys,My son and his band arein the Manhattan area as they were supposed to beplaying a big show there they will make it back to way and to be extra careful.Thanks,Bret --------------C1D050916AA1FF37E0AA86B6-- from captvonbek@earthlink.net Tue Sep 11 14:55:30 2001 f8BJtTZ22681 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:55:29 - MAA16884 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:55:26 - Subject: Martin Darrell: P.S. 49 O.K. Thanks to Martin Darrell for e-mailing me to see if we were o.k. at myschool in Queens, NYC. We are all safe, however, quite shaken up as aremost folks throughout the country. We are five minutes from Manhattan andhave a clear view of it east and west. At 10:30 a.m., I took my second graders to their computer class on thethird floor of our school. As I handed them off to Mrs. Judy, she said,emphatically, "you need to go to the roof now."Of course, I had no idea why I needed to that. Again she told me to go tothe roof. I did. Our principal and two visiting professors from Columbiastood staring at the gray and black smoke that covered the west side. Mr.Lombardi turned to me and said, "they're gone." It still had notregistered. He said, "planes were crashed into the World Trade Center thismorning. They're gone. They hit the Pentagon as well." Folks, I cannot describe to my feelings as I looked to where the TwinTowers once stood, saw smoke blowing to the west, and knew that thousandspeople had been killed. It's time for a whole lot of prayer, for lost livesand the families of those, and for those who are about to pay for it all.Lest we do something about it, this is likely a tad of what may come. Sincerest regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Sep 11 15:48:02 2001 f8BKm0Z03062 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:48:00 - Subject: Re: Give Blood All, I went to give blood here in Santa Clarita, CA and I got a number instead. The number allows me to come back in 3 hours to get into the line to give blood. Don Burns Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood.-- William Shakespeare All, I went to give blood here in Santa Clarita, CA and I got a numberinstead. The number allows me to come back in 3 hours to get into the line togive blood. Don Burns Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood.--William Shakespeare from Canerods@aol.com Tue Sep 11 16:08:07 2001 f8BL86Z08169 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:08:06 - Subject: Re: terrorism In a message dated 9/11/01 11:32:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu writes: It's hard to know what to think, what to say. Our university campus has closed; people are walking around, stunned at the news. So insidious; so disturbing-you'd want to declare war, but against whom? Where? Nonation (except as a possible host and sponsor of such terrorism); no military attack, but an infiltration of public transportation. So simple, really, and so frightening. And enraging, yes. I take note of the many expressions of support, anger, empathy on this list. Bret, especially-very glad to hear your son is safe and on his way home. That's is what terrorist hope for. - despair. The Polish people rebuild Warsaw after WWII to look exactly like it did before the Nazis destroyed it. That's what we need to do. Figuratively we need to all carry a brick to NYC and start building again, brick by brick, one brick at a time. To resolve to never despair. Let them knock it down and then let them watch with despair as we rebuildand also knowing full well that America has long believed in carrying a "big stick". Today, we need to show an united face to the world and stand behindPresident Bush and the US military - I won't mind tossing my tax refund check into a wanted dead or alive reward kitty along with 50 M more people. Hell, I'll even buy the ropes to use after we give them a fair trial and take them all outside for hangin' Don Burns Don B. In a message dated9/11/01 11:32:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu writes: campus has insidious; so (except as a possible host and sponsor of such terrorism); no military really, many especially-very glad to hear your son is safe and on his way home. That's is what terrorist hope for. - despair. The Polish people rebuild Warsaw after WWII to look exactly like it did before the Nazis destroyed it. That's what we need to do. Figurativelywe need to all carry a brick to NYC and start building again, brick by brick, one brick at a time. To resolve to never despair. Let them knock it down and then let them watch with despair as werebuild and also knowing full well that America has long believed in carrying a "big stick". Today, we need to show an united face to the world and stand behindPresident Bush and the US military - I won't mind tossing my tax refund check intoa wanted dead or alive reward kitty along with 50 M more people. Hell, I'll even buy the ropes to use after we give them a fair trial and take themall outside for hangin' Don Burns Don B. from iank@ts.co.nz Tue Sep 11 16:13:07 2001 f8BLD5Z09297 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:13:06 - Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:26:40 +1200 Subject: terrorism Our very real condolences and sympathy to our many American friends Subject: Re: terrorism It's hard to know what to think, what to say. Our university campus = closed; people are walking around, stunned at the news. So = disturbing-you'd want to declare war, but against whom? Where? No = (except as a possible host and sponsor of such terrorism); no = attack, but an infiltration of public transportation. So simple, = expressions of support, anger, empathy on this list. Bret, = The Polish people rebuild Warsaw after WWII to look exactly like it = before the Nazis destroyed it. That's what we need to do. Figuratively = need to all carry a brick to NYC and start building again, brick by = Let them knock it down and then let them watch with despair as we = also knowing full well that America has long believed in carrying a = Today, we need to show an united face to the world and stand behind = Bush and the US military - I won't mind tossing my tax refund check = wanted dead or alive reward kitty along with 50 M more people. Hell, = even buy the ropes to use after we give them a fair trial and take = Our very real condolences andsympathy = American friends IanK ----- Original Message ----- ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, September 12,= AMSubject: Re: terrorismIn a = 9/11/01 11:32:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu= writes: It's hard to know what to think, what to say. = university campus has closed; people are walking around, stunned = = and sponsor of such terrorism); no military attack, but an = to hear your son is safe and on his way home. = is what terrorist hope for. - despair. The Polish people = Warsaw after WWII to look exactly like it did before the Nazis = it. That's what we need to do. Figuratively we need to all carry a = to NYC and start building again, brick by brick, one brick at a = resolve to never despair. Let them knock it down and then let = watch with despair as we rebuild and also knowing full well that = has long believed in carrying a "big stick". Today, we = show an united face to the world and stand behind President Bush = US military - I won't mind tossing my tax refund check into a = or alive reward kitty along with 50 M more people. Hell, I'll even = ropes to use after we give them a fair trial and take them all = from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Sep 11 16:19:20 2001 f8BLJFZ10803 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:19:15 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:16:00 -0300 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: terrorism All,at last count 45 diverted airplanes have landed here in Halifax, NovaScotiabringing with them approximately 10 000 people left stranded. They arebeing takencare of and brought to a local sports arena, then taken to local homes thathaveopened their doors.Please let me know if any of your loved ones are in question and I will domybest to locate them and ensure they are taken care of. Shawn from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 16:28:11 2001 f8BLSAZ12907 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:28:10 - Subject: Re: terrorism rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thank you they are in the mountains of PA right now inching their way home.Bret Thank you they are inthe mountains of PA right now inching their way home.Bret from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 17:07:01 2001 f8BM6xZ21189 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:07:00 - 11 Sep 2001 15:07:01 PDT Subject: Stuck in NY I've been in Mid-town Manhattan since last night, 40 blocks from theWorld Trade Center. Safe, but stuck here until who knows when. My brother was a block away from WTC when the first plane hit. Heimmediately took a ferry to NJ, rented a car and started driving backto Indiana. Wish I had gotten out right away. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Sep 11 17:27:52 2001 f8BMRpZ25570 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:27:51 - v4.1.40/v4157. . Clean. Processed in 0.858489 secs); 11 Sep 200122:24:50 -0000 Subject: Re: America under attack --------------609542CFE1DBEB0B906D9B04 none wrote: I live 50 miles from the towers and can only get info on CBS . Marty Art Port wrote: Well, I guess I'm the guy-on-the-ground here, so I'll chime inand say that if you weren't where the explosions were, being closeis no advantage for information over being far away. We probably aregetting less info than you guys all over the world. There are atleast 9 TV stations for the NY Metropolitan area and they ALL usethe top of the towers for their antennae. We were receivingbroadcasts over only the CBS affiliate until several hours after theinitial hits until ABC worked a deal with one of the NJ UHF stationsto use their facilities. The nice thing about the Web is thatrelatives from far away used e-mail to find out our circumstances,as the phone system is a royal mess! I hear there are NO cell phoneservices. I know a couple of members on the list reside in downtownManhattan but I think they're enough blocks away from that area thatthey're safe. I can't remember their names right now, either.Anyway, from "ground zero", NY seems to be coping as well as can behoped.Art ----- Original Message -----From:Tony Miller Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 1:10 PMSubject: America under attack words.As a veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S.People)bringa full military response to bear upon theaggressors, who ever they might be.It's time to wake up.The attack was coordinated and has a ring of militaryoperation to it. To only look for one person responsible,would (in my opinion) be a mistake. It's obvious that thistype of thing takes much more than the planning of one madman. As American's we need to be careful NOT to blame anyone ethnic group. But once we find out what country was toblame ,than they should pay. After all isn't it theresponsibility of that country to make sure thatthesepeople aren't aloud to surface. I have never fought in awar and have only seen limited things during my tour inthe Navy. But If it meant going to war over this ,than sobe it. Some things are worth fighting for. I'm also verymad.This Country is worth fighting for. The people wholost their lives are worthfighting for. Our Freedom isworth fighting for. And LET NO ONE TAKE IT AWAY.My prayersgo out to the families of this tragedy and I pray that noone from the list has any loss on this sad day.TonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --------------609542CFE1DBEB0B906D9B04 none wrote: get info on CBS . MartyArt Port wrote:BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000;BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I guess I'm the guy-on-the-ground here, so I'll chime in and say that ifyou weren't where the explosions were, being close is no advantage forinformation over being far away. We probably are getting less info thanyou guys all over the world. There are at least 9 TV stations for the NYMetropolitan area and they ALL use the top of the towers for their antennae.We were receiving broadcasts over only the CBS affiliate until severalhours after the initial hits until ABC worked a deal with one of the NJ about the Web is that relatives from far away used e-mail to find out ourcircumstances, as the phone system is a royal mess! I hear there are NOcell phone services. I know a couple of members on the list reside indowntownManhattan but I think they're enough blocks away from that area thatthey're Anyway, from "ground zero", NY seems to be coping as well as can behoped.Art ----- Original Message ----- From:TonyMiller Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 20011:10 PM Subject: America under attack veteran of the U.S. Navy, I hope we (the U.S. People)bringa full militaryresponse to bear upon the aggressors, who ever they might be.It's timeto wake up. The attack was coordinated and has a ring of military operationto it. To only look for one person responsible, would (in my opinion) bea mistake. It's obvious that this type of thing takes much more than theplanning of one mad man. As American's we need to be careful NOT to blameany one ethnic group. But once we find out what country was to blame ,thanthey should pay. After all isn't it the responsibility of that countryto make sure thatthese people aren't aloud to surface. I have never foughtin a war and have only seen limited things during my tour in the Navy.But If it meant going to war over this ,than so be it. Some things areworth fighting for. I'm also very mad.This Country is worth fighting for.The people who lost their lives are worthfighting for. Our Freedom is worthfighting for. And LET NO ONE TAKE IT AWAY.My prayers go out to thefamiliesof this tragedy and I pray that no one from the list has any loss on thissad day.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html --------------609542CFE1DBEB0B906D9B04-- from iandmartin@ntlworld.com Tue Sep 11 17:36:49 2001 f8BMalZ27602 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:36:48 - Subject: Late night thoughts from the UK Organization: I have been a member of this list for a while, but never contribute =much, mainly because I feel I don't have a lot to offer in the way of =advice etc. I have got to know some of you guys 'off the board' quite = Having watched in total disbelief, the news programs today, and having =read through the digest tonight, I felt I had to write something to =express my feelings. Prior to becoming a 'rodmaker', and in my 'previous' life, I was a cop = see unnecessary death & destruction at close range. In fact this was the =reason for my early retirement several years ago, or should I say, the =eventual inability to cope with this aspect of life anymore, after =witnessing it several hundred times. But all of this, pails into = I have, like the rest of the world, watched the TV and seen the scenes, =and I'm really at a loss for words to describe how I feel. My initial thoughts were of anger, then sadness, then frustration. I =started to write this, to express my deep sadness and heartfelt =thoughts, but for once in my life, words escape me. All I can say, is that our sympathies go to you, as individuals and as a =Nation. Bret, I trust your son returns home safe and well. Ian D. Martin (UK) I have been a member of this list for a= never contribute much, mainly because I feel I don't have a lot to offer = way of advice etc. I have got to know some of you guys 'off the board' = well. Bob M, Tony M,.... you know who you are. Having watched in total disbelief, the = programs today, and having read through the digest tonight, I felt I had = write something to express my feelings. Prior to becoming a 'rodmaker', and in = 'previous' life, I was a cop for 25yrs. here in the UK. Like many guys = emergency services, you see unnecessary death & destruction at close= In fact this was the reason for my early retirement several years ago, = I say, the eventual inability to cope with this aspect of life anymore, = witnessing it several hundred times. But all of this, pails into = after today's happenings. I have, like the rest of the world, = and seen the scenes, and I'm really at a loss for words to describe how = feel. My initial thoughts were of anger, then= then frustration. I started to write = express my deep sadness and heartfelt thoughts, but for once in my life, = escape me. All I can say, is that our sympathies = individuals and as a Nation. Bret, I trust your son returns home = well. Ian D. Martin (UK) from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Sep 11 17:56:40 2001 f8BMucZ28510 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:56:38 - f8BMucd02215 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:56:38 Subject: Atrocity! Our hearts go out to you, and our prayers! Australia has never been slow to support the US in times of need. It willnot be any different this time. God bles you all! Peter from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Tue Sep 11 18:07:02 2001 f8BN72Z29141 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:07:02 - for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:07:00 - Subject: Re: Martin Darrell: P.S. 49 O.K. I was standing on the roof of my building at the Naval Research Lab in Washington DC this morning after hearing about the attacks on the WTC inNY City. A buddy of mine and I were getting some fresh air after watching the news reports coming in. The Naval Research lab is about 5 miles south east of the Pentagon. We were up on the roof at the same time as the third plane rammed into the Pentagon. At first, we were completely speechless, not exactly sure what it was, then the fireball went up along with the smoke. I spent 10 yrs in the USAF, flying F-4's, just in case we were ever needed. As I went back up onto the roof a little bit later, and saw a few fighters flying CAP over Washington DC, I felt a profound pride in our military services, and yet a profound shock at what had happened not only to innocent civilians in NYC, but to our fighting men and women at the headquarters of our military, the Pentagon. I think it's gotten to the point, what difference does it make who was responsible for the act. We should knock out each and every terrorist cell in the world. Doesn't make any difference whether or not they were responsible for this act. Any organization that has to resort to the act of terrorism to get their point across, doesn't deserve to exist. Mark At 04:02 PM 9/11/01 -0400, you wrote: Thanks to Martin Darrell for e-mailing me to see if we were o.k. at myschool in Queens, NYC. We are all safe, however, quite shaken up as aremost folks throughout the country. We are five minutes from Manhattanandhave a clear view of it east and west. At 10:30 a.m., I took my second graders to their computer class on thethird floor of our school. As I handed them off to Mrs. Judy, she said,emphatically, "you need to go to the roof now."Of course, I had no idea why I needed to that. Again she told me to go tothe roof. I did. Our principal and two visiting professors from Columbiastood staring at the gray and black smoke that covered the west side. Mr.Lombardi turned to me and said, "they're gone." It still had notregistered. He said, "planes were crashed into the World Trade Center thismorning. They're gone. They hit the Pentagon as well." Folks, I cannot describe to my feelings as I looked to where the TwinTowers once stood, saw smoke blowing to the west, and knew thatthousandspeople had been killed. It's time for a whole lot of prayer, for lost livesand the families of those, and for those who are about to pay for it all.Lest we do something about it, this is likely a tad of what may come. Sincerest regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Sep 11 18:36:11 2001 f8BNaAZ00109 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:36:10 - Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists In a message dated 9/11/01 10:15:00 AM Central Daylight Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: I for one will definitely pray for their safety! Best of luck, please keep us informed!mark from harms1@pa.net Tue Sep 11 18:43:26 2001 f8BNhQZ00553 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:43:26 - Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Todd, Steady on, my friend! Many of us are liberals, and do not believe that onlyconservatives have the right to think of themselves as patriotic Americans.Liberal though I may be, I think you would find yourself hard- pressed tofind me a "bleeding-heart" coward. Intollerance, bigotry and hatred of this sort brought down the Trade Towers.Let's try to be a little more civil among ourselves. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists something like this. With Dick Cheney and Colin Powell at his side, Ibelieve that President Bush will stop at nothing to get at the peopleresponsible. May the "bleeding heart liberals" be condemned as thecowards they are if they stand in the way. As Don said, let's pray notonly for the victims of the attacks and their families, but for ourleaders (at least for us in the US) to have discernment and goodjudgement. May God bless America in our time of need. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: this will never happen, all the bleeding heart liberals will just complain that those people who did this are just misunderstood and should be given some sort of government aid. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Let's offer our prayers to those murdered today. Then let's pray that our government has the balls to hunt down thecowardlybastards that did this and squashes them like bugs. The low-life SOB'swouldbe drawn and quartered and feed their male organs if I was king. Don Burns --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htmgenealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Sep 11 18:45:43 2001 f8BNjgZ00863 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:45:42 - 11 Sep 2001 16:45:44 PDT Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists yes! "steady on" that's it! timothy --- WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Todd, Steady on, my friend! Many of us are liberals, anddo not believe that onlyconservatives have the right to think of themselvesas patriotic Americans.Liberal though I may be, I think you would findyourself hard- pressed tofind me a "bleeding-heart" coward. Intollerance, bigotry and hatred of this sortbrought down the Trade Towers.Let's try to be a little more civil among ourselves. Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Todd Talsma" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:11 AMSubject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists is going to stand for something like this. With Dick Cheney and Colin Powell at his side, I believe that President Bush will stop at nothing to get at the people responsible. May the "bleeding heart liberals" be condemned as the cowards they are if they stand in the way. As Don said, let's pray not only for the victims of the attacks and their families, but for our leaders (at least for us in the US) to have discernment and good judgement. May God bless America in our time of need. "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: this will never happen, all the bleeding heart liberals will justcomplain that those people who did this are just misunderstood and should begiven some sort of government aid. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ----------From: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Twin Towers - Terrorists Let's offer our prayers to those murdered today. Then let's pray that our government has the balls to hunt down the cowardlybastards that did this and squashes them like bugs. The low-life SOB's wouldbe drawn and quartered and feed their male organs if I was king. Don Burns --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htm genealogy pages: http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Sep 11 18:57:35 2001 f8BNvYZ01447 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:57:34 - Subject: terror at home Well said, Mark. I am a big believer in "If you're not with me...you'reagainst me." May God protect the young men and women who carry out ourjustice on whomever it was that did this faceless act of cowardice. I hopeall the listers and their friends and family are safe and sound. My prayersare with you all.Also, I appreciate the sentiments expressed by our international friends. Itisn't just the US under attack, it is an attack on the free world, freethoughts, and the free expression of ideas without fear.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Martin Darrell: P.S. 49 O.K. I think it's gotten to the point, what difference does it make who wasresponsible for the act. We should knock out each and every terrorist cellin the world. Doesn't make any difference whether or not they wereresponsible for this act. Any organization that has to resort to the actof terrorism to get their point across, doesn't deserve to exist. Mark from richjez@enteract.com Tue Sep 11 19:19:39 2001 f8C0JcZ02300 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:19:38 - Subject: Re: Late night thoughts from the UK --=====================_1131941==_.ALT I am very impresses with the caring and support this list has offered. The initial disagreements were let go and people moved on. It was so good not see flame wars start and instead people pulled together. I am proud to be associated with such a group of people. Rich Jezioro At 05:43 PM 9/11/01, iandmartin wrote: I have been a member of this list for a while, but never contribute much, mainly because I feel I don't have a lot to offer in the way of advice etc. I have got to know some of you guys 'off the board' quite well. Bob M, Tony M,.... you know who you are. Having watched in total disbelief, the news programs today, and having read through the digest tonight, I felt I had to write something to express my feelings. Prior to becoming a 'rodmaker', and in my 'previous' life, I was a cop for 25yrs. here in the UK. Like many guys in the emergency services, you see unnecessary death & destruction at close range. In fact this was the reason for my early retirement several years ago, or should I say, the eventual inability to cope with this aspect of life anymore, after witnessing it several hundred times. But all of this, pails into insignificance, after today's happenings. I have, like the rest of the world, watched the TV and seen the scenes, and I'm really at a loss for words to describe how I feel. My initial thoughts were of anger, then sadness, then frustration. I started to write this, to express my deep sadness and heartfelt thoughts, but for once in my life, words escape me. All I can say, is that our sympathies go to you, as individuals and as a Nation. Bret, I trust your son returns home safe and well. Ian D. Martin (UK) --=====================_1131941==_.ALT I am very impresses with the caring and support this listhas offered. The initial disagreements were let go and people moved on.It was so good not see flame wars start and instead people pulledtogether. I am proud to be associated with such a group of people. Rich Jezioro At 05:43 PM 9/11/01, iandmartin wrote:I have been amember of this list for a while, but never contribute much, mainlybecause I feel I don't have a lot to offer in the way of advice etc. Ihave got to know some of you guys 'off the board' quite well. Bob M, TonyM,.... you know who you are. Having watched in total disbelief, thenews programs today, and having read through the digest tonight, I felt Ihad to write something to express my feelings. Prior to becoming a 'rodmaker', and inmy 'previous' life, I was a cop for 25yrs. here in the UK. Like many guysin the emergency services, you see unnecessary death & destruction atclose range. In fact this was the reason for my early retirement severalyears ago, or should I say, the eventual inability to cope with thisaspect of life anymore, after witnessing it several hundred times. Butall of this, pails into insignificance, after today's happenings. I have, like the rest of the world,watched the TV and seen the scenes, and I'm really at a loss for words todescribe how I feel. My initial thoughts were of anger, thensadness, then frustration. I started to write this, to express my deepsadness and heartfelt thoughts, but for once in my life, words escapeme. All I can say, is that our sympathies goto you, as individuals and as a Nation. Bret, I trust your son returns home safeand well. Ian D. Martin(UK) --=====================_1131941==_.ALT-- from briansr@point-net.com Tue Sep 11 19:31:41 2001 f8C0VeZ02710 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:31:40 - for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:43:37 -0400 Subject: NYC Sad so SadI'm out the door in 5 minutes to go to work,and I'm advised that themidnight shift is going to be very busy . Diversions that landed earlier inHalifax and Gander are expected into Montreal tonight,which will be the onlycivilian flights in North America since this afternoon .Brian from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Sep 11 20:10:42 2001 f8C1AgZ03461 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:10:42 - Subject: Holbrook 310 rod. All, At the Catskills Gathering there was a bit of interest in a rod that Ibrought to fish alongside the Bait Fisherman for that elusive monster of thepond. It was a dark-flamed Dawn Holbrook 8 1/2 foot rod that was originallymade for a weight forward nine, but cast a Triangle Taper 8 and a silk WF8very well. I have found the PDF file that contains the original taper(among others) on three inch centers as well as a spreadsheet that containsa conversion to five inch centers (thanks to Art Port for his assistancewith the conversion), upon which this particular rod was made. If anyone isinterested please contact me off-list and I'll send you both documents. Dennis Haftel from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 20:57:13 2001 f8C1vCZ04266 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:57:12 - Subject: Re: Late night thoughts from the UK Thanks Ian, I as well used to be an EMT and fireman for many years and I quit because I could not take all the misery that I saw through the years. You can only take so much blood, burn victims and car accidents. I could not even fathom what carnage is to be witnessed in NYC. Thanks Ian, I as wellused to be an EMT and fireman for many years and I quit because I could not take all the misery that I saw through the years. could not even fathom what carnage is to be witnessed in NYC. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 21:02:45 2001 f8C22jZ04636 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:02:45 - Subject: Re: terror at home rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Just was informed by my son's girlfriend that one of her best friends at school had a brother who was one of the pilots that went down today. Please ray for the family.Bret Just was informed bymy son's girlfriend that one of her best friends at school had a brother who was one of the pilots that went down today. ray for the family.Bret from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Sep 11 21:16:30 2001 f8C2GTZ05240 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:16:29 - (authenticated) Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:15:41 -0700 Subject: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... Churches around our country, and probably around ourworld, gathered for prayer tonight. Most ministers, likeme, probably struggled for something to say. Since many ofyou who receive this are my fly fishing friends, you may notappreciate these comments. Still I hope that my infrequencyof sharing overtly religious messages with those who are notchurch friends will prohibit a series of flames. Iorganized a gathering of several hundred people in ourlittle Louisiana town of 7700 this afternoon. Catholics,Presbyterians, Methodists, Pentecostals, Disciples ofChrist, and Baptists all met at our Church. If you're atall interested in what I shared, I've cut and pasted itbelow. God bless,Harry Boyd *********Massive evil clouds our understanding and covers uswith ashes of anger. The images of burning and collapsingbuildings now forever etched on our souls leave the nationthick-tongued and tired. We in the Christian community have little clearperspective other than that of Jesus. And in times of suchhorrific violence and unspeakable sadness, his teachingsmust be the guiding rule. In the Sermon on the Mount, wefind seven clear touchstones for this painful, bewilderingtime. We would do well to remember the words of Jesus and torecite them. Jesus said: 1. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will becomforted."2. "Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy."3. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be calledchildren of God."4. "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." 5. "Strive first for the kingdom of God and hisrighteousness."6. "In everything do to others as you would have them do toyou."7. "Everyone ... who hears these words of mine and acts onthem will be like a wise man who builds his house on rock." Jesus' wisdom and witness must chart our course in thisvery sinful world where evil multiplies evil, anger feedsanger, injustice breeds injustice, vengeance begetsvengeance. All too soon, some within our society will speak interms of holy war, hunting campaigns and quick strikes. Whenthe public discourse turns from grief to retaliation, thecommunity of faith must offer a different language andarticulate different solutions. When some rush towards revenge, those of faith must beslow to speak about retribution. When some quickly denounceMuslims and demonize them, we must avoid the false witnessthat universalizes harmful attributes to those of differentreligions. This is a call to prayer, not to arms. As proudas we are to be Americans, and as deeply hurt as we aretoday, let's not forget that our call as followers of JesusChrist is to be like Him, and to react in the way He wouldtoday. Let us grieve with those who grieve, uphold theprinciples of justice in our world, and pray that a swiftsolution will come. Amen --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Tue Sep 11 21:28:34 2001 f8C2SXZ05796 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:28:33 - id f8C2SUr14689 for ; Wed, 12 Sep2001 11:28:30 +0900 (JST) id LAA20584 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 200111:28:28 +0900 (JST) Subject: Happening TV news here also have been occupied with the happening at Manhattan,Pentagon, and Pittsburg. I kept watching them with terrible feeling fromlast night. One of my sons just returned from one of twin tour bldgs two weeks ago forashort break. He joined international company for his job. I am sharing the same feeling of sadness and anger with you about thishappenings.Tremendous numbers of people must be lost. Prayer for those sacrificedpeople. All of US Forces here strengthened their securities and JapaneseGovernmenthas already prepared a chartered jet to be ready to send any asistance forUS. We are also with you. Max from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 11 21:43:24 2001 f8C2hNZ06667 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:43:23 - "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: terror at home Hi Bob, That was very well said. It really hit home here. My son Geoffrey wasscheduled to fly out from Boston this morning to L.A. He changed histicket 2 weeks ago because my mom wasn't doing too well and he stopped inConn. to see her yesterday and flew out last night. Yes it was theAmerican flight that crashed..............Rich Colo [Original Message]From: Bob Maulucci Date: 9/11/2001 7:57:16 PM Subject: terror at home Well said, Mark. I am a big believer in "If you're not with me...you'reagainst me." May God protect the young men and women who carry out ourjustice on whomever it was that did this faceless act of cowardice. I hopeall the listers and their friends and family are safe and sound. My prayers are with you all.Also, I appreciate the sentiments expressed by our international friends. It isn't just the US under attack, it is an attack on the free world, freethoughts, and the free expression of ideas without fear.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: Re: Martin Darrell: P.S. 49 O.K. I think it's gotten to the point, what difference does it make who wasresponsible for the act. We should knock out each and every terrorist cell in the world. Doesn't make any difference whether or not they wereresponsible for this act. Any organization that has to resort to the actof terrorism to get their point across, doesn't deserve to exist. Mark --- RICHARD J COLO--- rcolo@ix.netcom.com--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. from mrwonder@gte.net Tue Sep 11 21:59:14 2001 f8C2xDZ07433 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:59:13 - ; id f8C2wt326313 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Removing Heddon reel seats Hello; I'm very new to cane rodmaking and hope that one of you experiencedrodmakers can direct to sources for plans to build a good oven and afunctional rod binder. I have Cattanach's and Maurer's books but they do notprovide detailed plans for successfully building these essential tools. I could certainly use your help! Best Wishes, Jim RoanMarysville, WA from if6were9@bellsouth.net Tue Sep 11 22:29:40 2001 f8C3TdZ08526 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:29:40 - ;Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:30:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Happening MaxI have a good friend that was due in from Japan via NYC this morning and sofarI have not heard from him. We are hoping his flight was one of the manydiverted elsewhere and that he was not visiting his friends at Dean Witterbefore heading home. Also, I just learned that 100 + burn victims from theNYCand DC areas are inbound to the burn unit at our local hospital and we are notunique in this. Injured people are being sent all over the eastern seaboardandelsewhere. These people will need blood and lots of it. I've already giventoday and will do so again tomorrow at a different location. It is thequickest, and currently the most important proactive step us average folkscantake. If you are able, please give blood. Someone you have never met will bemost thankful.Pat Max wrote: TV news here also have been occupied with the happening at Manhattan,Pentagon, and Pittsburg. I kept watching them with terrible feeling fromlast night. One of my sons just returned from one of twin tour bldgs two weeks ago short break. He joined international company for his job. I am sharing the same feeling of sadness and anger with you about thishappenings.Tremendous numbers of people must be lost. Prayer for those sacrificedpeople. All of US Forces here strengthened their securities and JapaneseGovernmenthas already prepared a chartered jet to be ready to send any asistance forUS. We are also with you. Max from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Sep 11 22:47:38 2001 f8C3lbZ09366 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:47:37 - Subject: Alive Just saw on Fox News that there are confirmed reports of people still alive and talking on cell phones in WTC. Let us hope there are many still alive and trapped who will survive.Bret Just saw on Fox Newsthat there are confirmed reports of people still alive still alive and trapped who will survive.Bret from irish-george@chartermi.net Tue Sep 11 22:56:35 2001 f8C3uZZ09860 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:56:35 - 2001 23:56:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Give Blood The television stations have been announcing that it is important to giveblood over the next SEVERAL days. While they get a lot of blood donationsimmediately, they are afraid that it will quickly taper off and many of thesurvivors will need surgeries in the days and weeks to come. George ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Give Blood from a friend on another flyfishing listserv. "Yes: give blood. If you want to help with this current situation, that's what you need to do. Now. On your lunch break. This evening. Tomorrow morning. As soon as you can. If the Red Cross runs out of blood this is going to get even uglier. Thanks, Chris" I agree with Chris - if you can, please give blood today - it will help! Claudebeadman@mac.comcfreaner@hq.nasa.gov from lblan@provide.net Tue Sep 11 23:01:18 2001 f8C41IZ10220 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:01:18 - for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:01:15 - Subject: RE: Alive Amen!Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Alive Just saw on Fox News that there are confirmed reports of people stillaliveand talking on cell phones in WTC. Let us hope there are many still aliveand trapped who will survive.Bret Amen!Larry Blan Grhghlndr@aol.comSent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: =AliveJust saw on Fox News that there = confirmed reports of people still alive and talking on cell phones = Bret from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Tue Sep 11 23:38:17 2001 f8C4cGZ11728 for ; Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:38:16 - f8C4YRO24099; Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... well said Harry, Jim (who redises in Montana where this kind of thing doenst happen) from rodwrapp@swbell.net Wed Sep 12 02:13:14 2001 f8C7DDZ14884 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:13:13 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Holbrook 310 rod. I have a Dawn Holbrook 9'6" Bamboo Flyrod does anybody know about what isworth??? Also History on the Man.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ---- - Subject: Holbrook 310 rod. All, At the Catskills Gathering there was a bit of interest in a rod that Ibrought to fish alongside the Bait Fisherman for that elusive monster of the pond. It was a dark-flamed Dawn Holbrook 8 1/2 foot rod that was originally made for a weight forward nine, but cast a Triangle Taper 8 and a silk WF8very well. I have found the PDF file that contains the original taper(among others) on three inch centers as well as a spreadsheet that contains a conversion to five inch centers (thanks to Art Port for his assistancewith the conversion), upon which this particular rod was made. If anyone is interested please contact me off-list and I'll send you both documents. Dennis Haftel from Ralf.Ladda@t-online.de Wed Sep 12 02:17:08 2001 f8C7H7Z15114 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:17:07 - id 15h4Gi-0007nW-09; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:17:08 +0200 fwd03.sul.t-online.com f8C87cY16761 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:07:38+0200 Organization: Labor =?iso-8859-1?Q?f=FCr?= Bodenmechanik Subject: New York City --------------25141602A2EF011E5A5C1131 Dear American friends, in these dark hours I want to assure you, that my thoughts and prayersare with the victims of this terrible attack and their families and withyour whole nation. When I was walking in my hometown this morning, allflags were half mast (I hope I chose the right english expression)andthey are all over Germany. The whole German nation feels with theirAmerican friends. I am absolutely sure that we will assist you whereverwe can to hunt down the cowards who are responsible for this attack. Thefree world has to stand together and united now. I can't hardly find the words Ralf from Germany--------------25141602A2EF011E5A5C1131 name="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" filename="Ralf.Ladda.vcf" begin:vcard n:Ladda;Ralftel;cell:0170 - 3152964tel;fax:49 - (0) 7941 - 960154tel;home:49 - (0) 7945 - 940750tel;work:49 - (0) 7941 - 960153 org:Labor fèr Bodenmechanikadr:;;Hoelderlinstrasse 1;Pfedelbach;;74629;Germanyversion:2.1email;internet:Ralf.Ladda@t- online.defn:Ralf Laddaend:vcard --------------25141602A2EF011E5A5C1131-- from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Sep 12 06:03:16 2001 f8CB3FZ17004 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:03:15 - Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/11/01 11:38:42 PM Central Daylight Time, flyrod@pop.digisys.net writes: Yeah. I agree! Also I am happy that I live where I do. i mean what sort of symbolism is there in bombing Cedar Rapids Iowa? it would take a couple of weeks for the world to find out!mark from anglport@con2.com Wed Sep 12 07:37:53 2001 f8CCbqZ18353 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:37:52 - Subject: Re: NYC I really hope your son is telling that story to the authorities. They =found the car with the five suspects in Boston merely because the =suspects got in an altercation with someone while parking yesterday. =Just the knowledge that there may have been someone in place in NYC may =be very helpful.Art Subject: NYC I was just talking to my son on the phone and he told me about = weird that happened to him and his friends last night in NYC. He told = Arab looking guy came up to them and told them to not take any flights = the East coast in the next couple of days because winter was coming = I really hope your son is telling that = authorities. They found the car with the five suspects in Boston merely = the suspects got in an altercation with someone while parking yesterday. = the knowledge that there may have been someone in place in NYC may be = helpful.Art ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 11, = PMSubject: NYCI was just= my son on the phone and he told me about something weird that = guy came up to them and told them to not take any flights along = coast in the next couple of days because winter was coming early to = from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Sep 12 07:59:01 2001 f8CCx1Z18827 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:59:01 - id ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:53:21 -0400 id RDBTH68J; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:53:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Late night thoughts from the UK Rich, Dittos man. What a wonderful group of individuals, from all over theworld. Everyone, a deepfelt thank you for all the thoughts and prayersgoing up for our country and the victims of these events. Rich Jezioro wrote: I am very impresses with the caring and support this list has offered.The initial disagreements were let go and people moved on. It was sogood not see flame wars start and instead people pulled together. I am proud to be associated with such a group of people. Rich Jezioro -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/index.htm genealogy pages:http://members.nbci.com/ttalsma/family/index.htm >FromGrhghlndr@aol.com Wed Sep 12 08:00:23 2001 Received: from imo- f8CD0MZ19008 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id x.5f.1ac0975a (4380); Wed, 12 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:00:09 EDT Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- expressed concern for my son being almost at ground zero yesterday and hisefforts to get out of NYC and home. He made it at 12:20 this morning. I wassitting up watching the news last night and got a call at about 9:30 that theywere in Toledo Ohio and would be home soon. Thank you all. Bret -- my son being almost at ground zero yesterday and his efforts to get was sitting up watching the news last night and got a call at about 9:30 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Sep 12 09:16:36 2001 Received: from imo- f8CEGaZ22207 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id p.14d.dc30c1 (4387); Wed, 12 Sep Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:16:19 EDT 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- price gouging for gas in your area. Certain stations in N. Indiana have startedcharging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 for mid grade and 4.98 for premium,where some have stayed at the 1.58, 1.68 and 1.78 range for their fuel. TheGov of Indiana wants these people to be reported that are gouging and hesaid he will deal with them accordingly -- charging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 for mid grade and 4.98 forpremium, where some have stayed at the 1.58, 1.68 and 1.78 range for are gouging and he said he will deal with them from anglport@con2.com Wed Sep 12 09:25:59 2001 Received: from From: "Art Port" References:Subject: Re: Price gouging Date: Wed, 12 anglport@con2.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This that gas prices on the commodities markets were going up (I = guess due tofear the US might "screw up" some of the suppliers' = pipelines) but here inNYC the mayor basically said they'll nail = anybody's a** to the wall if theygouge on ANYTHING! I'll have to check = the stations when I go out later. Art September 12, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: Price gouging Has anyone seen any printable ----- Original Message ----- Has ------ Wed Sep 12 09:30:33 2001 Received: from ispram.clnk.com (mail.clnk.com ispram.clnk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0- 0500 Message-ID: From: , References:Subject: Re: Price gouging Date: Wed, 12 caneman@clnk.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This They did the same thing down here for about half the day = yesterday...dropped the prices late last night, so now they are only 20 = cents a gallonhigher than yesterday... EXCEPT at one old rednecks gas = station. He didn'traise his, wasn't going to take advantage of the = panic, and he has peoplelined up to buy at his little convenience = store. The parking lots of theothers looked unusually empty as I went = to town this morning. Later, Bob http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- September 12, 2001 9:16 AM Subject: Price gouging Has anyone seen any printable R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht= have started charging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 for mid grade = ------ mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Sep 12 09:50:16 2001 Received: f8CEoGZ24175 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 X-Sender:mtnvalleyflies@pop3.ctel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version flyfish@defnet.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu From: John Kenealy multipart/alternative; mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- =====================_132267147==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; family had a scary day yesterday also. Many of my cousins live and work inthe metropolitan area. My cousin and close friend, John Baker, is a NYCFireman and is stationed in "alphabet city" close to where this all happened.Most of his company is among the missing in the rubble. He, thank God, isalive and busy with the work at hand. His father is a retired Lieutenant in theNYC fire department and works as a consultant in fire safety for many ofthe companies down town and was among the missing until last night.Thankfully, he is alive and well. Let our thoughts and prayers go out to thosepeople and their families, who are among the missing, dead and those still indanger while trying to rescue others. I think that the world will see the truestrength of America and Americans in the aftermath of this horrific action.Yes, we have the strongest, best equipped military in the world, and its fullforce should be brought to bear on all those responsible for this act, but ourtrue strength is the ability to come together as one, discarding ourdifferences, and mobilize to do good works. It is already being seen with bloodbanks being jammed, food and supplies coming in quickly. We should be proudof America and be proud and thankful to be Americans. John K. At 01:20 PM9/11/01 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Thanks to all who have expressed concern for my son being out there. Hehascalled me on the phone and said they are OK. I told him I talked to thepeople from the label he is signed with and they told me to tell the boys toget in their tour van and head for the Midwest. The CMJ Festival is going tobe canceled in Midtown Manhattan this weekend.Bret --=====================_132267147==_.ALT Bret, Fireman and is stationed in "alphabet city" close to where this father is a retired Lieutenant in the NYC fire department and works as aconsultant in fire safety for many of the companies down town and was well.Let our thoughts and prayers go out to those people and their families,who are among the missing, dead and those still in danger while trying torescue others.I think that the world will see the true strength of America and the strongest, best equipped military in the world, and its full forceshould be brought to bear on all those responsible for this act, but ourtrue strength is the ability to come together as one, discarding ourdifferences, and mobilize to do good works.It is already being seen with blood banks being jammed, food and supplies thankful to be Americans.John K. At 01:20 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:Thanks to the people from the label he is signed with and they told me to tell the boysto going to Bret --=====================_132267147==_.ALT-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Sep 12 09:59:39 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) f8CExdZ24803 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:59:39 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:59:33 -0500 Subject: US Response this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Just think of the list of countries that have assumed the US is too diverseand soft to be a threat. Most of them still host substantial US militarybases. Just think of the list of countries that have assumed the US is too diverse andsoft to be a threat. Most of them still host substantial US military bases. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Sep 12 10:12:45 2001 f8CFCiZ25362 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:12:44 - Subject: Re: My son in NY rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu John,I am thankful that you have good news of your family and friends. It is really a sad thing when you start to hear a lot of the stories. I have on Fox News right now and Hillary Clinton is talking. She said that many of the people on the planes were made to call home on their cell phones and many others did this on their own accord from the planes that were involved. Imagine the pain their families were experiencing as they were told by their loved ones that their planes were going down and that they wanted to tell them they loved them. This is more than a lot of these people will be able to bear and you can be assured the aftermath of some of this will besuicides being ripped apart by the things that I keep hearing. We on the list who are Americans I can only hope that this will bring us closer together and our foreign friends I can only say Thank You guys and I hope you keep us and our country in your prayers.Bret John,I am thankful that you have good news of your family and friends. have on many of the people on the planes were made to call home on their cell phones andmany others did this on their own accord from the planes that were involved. Imagine the pain their families were experiencing as they were told bytheir loved ones that their planes were going down and that they wanted totell be able to bear and you can be assured the aftermath of some of this will besuicides heart is list who are Americans I can only hope that this will bring us closer together and our foreign friends I can only say Thank You guys and I hope you keep us andour country in your prayers.Bret from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Sep 12 10:14:58 2001 f8CFEuZ25626 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:14:56 - Subject: Re: Price gouging $3.65 per gal. I filled up yesterday. Tony from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Sep 12 10:49:36 2001 f8CFnaZ27961 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:49:36 - for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:49:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Late night thoughts from the UK/our overseas friends I would like to thank all of our overseas friends on the list for their =concerns andheart felt thoughts.It is very comforting to know we are not alone in our fight for freedom.Tony Miller BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I would like to thank all of our overseas friends on the list for = concerns andheart felt thoughts. freedom.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/= from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Sep 12 10:53:43 2001 f8CFrgZ28397 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:53:42 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... Harry, I would like to give another Christian perspective on this. Granted that we are to love (agape not philios) our enemies, this love is not inconsistent with punishing them for violating the rights or lives of others. Just as I love my son, if he breaks a rule he must be punished. Yet, the punishment is administered in love. According to most Christian teachings this is best exhibited in the fact that God loves Man, but Man is not fit for God's presence... therefore, Man must die. When an indiviual recognizes this about himself, he dies to that self (spiritually but figuratively through Baptism) and lives thereafter through Christ. Punishment of those who commit injustices can be done in love...failure to punish those who murder others is to fail to accept that love is more than a "feeling", it is to deny that there is life beyond the grave and places temporal happiness as the absolute. I can pray for the people who planned the attacks of yesterday, thatthey may come to a clear understanding of their actions. If they did see their acts in God's light, they would be so offended with themselves, they would welcome a temporal death. But whether or not they repent of their actions, their crime has a punishment within this world. Jesus did say that if a man strikes me one cheek, I must turn to him the other and gave us other instances of a loving response to a mild injustice. He DID NOT say that if a man kill my daughter, I should give him my son as well. What would Jesus do? This is the God-made-Man that calmly made aknotted whip to drive the moneychangers from the temple. What do you think he would do?Best regards,Reed Harry Boyd wrote: Churches around our country, and probably around ourworld, gathered for prayer tonight. Most ministers, likeme, probably struggled for something to say. Since many ofyou who receive this are my fly fishing friends, you may notappreciate these comments. Still I hope that my infrequencyof sharing overtly religious messages with those who are notchurch friends will prohibit a series of flames. Iorganized a gathering of several hundred people in ourlittle Louisiana town of 7700 this afternoon. Catholics,Presbyterians, Methodists, Pentecostals, Disciples ofChrist, and Baptists all met at our Church. If you're atall interested in what I shared, I've cut and pasted itbelow. God bless,Harry Boyd *********Massive evil clouds our understanding and covers uswith ashes of anger. The images of burning and collapsingbuildings now forever etched on our souls leave the nationthick-tongued and tired. We in the Christian community have little clearperspective other than that of Jesus. And in times of suchhorrific violence and unspeakable sadness, his teachingsmust be the guiding rule. In the Sermon on the Mount, wefind seven clear touchstones for this painful, bewilderingtime. We would do well to remember the words of Jesus and torecite them. Jesus said: 1. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will becomforted."2. "Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy."3. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be calledchildren of God."4. "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." 5. "Strive first for the kingdom of God and hisrighteousness."6. "In everything do to others as you would have them do toyou."7. "Everyone ... who hears these words of mine and acts onthem will be like a wise man who builds his house on rock." Jesus' wisdom and witness must chart our course in thisvery sinful world where evil multiplies evil, anger feedsanger, injustice breeds injustice, vengeance begetsvengeance. All too soon, some within our society will speak interms of holy war, hunting campaigns and quick strikes. Whenthe public discourse turns from grief to retaliation, thecommunity of faith must offer a different language andarticulate different solutions. When some rush towards revenge, those of faith must beslow to speak about retribution. When some quickly denounceMuslims and demonize them, we must avoid the false witnessthat universalizes harmful attributes to those of differentreligions. This is a call to prayer, not to arms. As proudas we are to be Americans, and as deeply hurt as we aretoday, let's not forget that our call as followers of JesusChrist is to be like Him, and to react in the way He wouldtoday. Let us grieve with those who grieve, uphold theprinciples of justice in our world, and pray that a swiftsolution will come. Amen --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from splitcane@t-online.de Wed Sep 12 10:55:58 2001 f8CFtvZ28753 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:55:57 - id 15hCMo-0005IV-0A; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:55:58 +0200 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Organization: . Subject: usa under attack dear american listmembers,I want to express my sympathies to each of you for any losses you mayhave sustained due to yesterdays's attacks on New York and WashingtonD.C.Please know that our thoughts and prayers here in germany always bewith you.god bless you allMichael from splitcane@t-online.de Wed Sep 12 11:09:06 2001 f8CG95Z29498 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:09:05 - id 15hCZD-00005A-07; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:08:47 +0200 fwd04.sul.t-online.com Organization: . rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... Dear Jim and allI live here in a smaller town of germany and felt quite safe here until therewasan explosive device found in the hospital my wife used to work as a nurserightat the time the alliance started to free kuweit fromm saddam. thanks god specialist who dealt with it succesful. We better don't feel to safe as longthisproblem hasn't been dealt with finally.god bless you all over thereMichael Lazybee45@aol.com schrieb: In a message dated 9/11/01 11:38:42 PM Central Daylight Time,flyrod@pop.digisys.net writes: Jim(who redises in Montana where this kind of thing doenst happen) Yeah. I agree! Also I am happy that I live where I do. i mean what sort ofsymbolism is there in bombing Cedar Rapids Iowa? it would take a couple ofweeks for the world to find out!mark from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Sep 12 11:17:38 2001 f8CGHbZ00044 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:17:37 - f8CGHcA08921 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:17:38 -0500 Subject: Re: My son in NY My niece's husband is a fireman in N.Y. C.Just talked to him about an hour ago. He wasordered to go home after morethan25 hours on duty. He had just gotten home about 20minuets before we talkedtohim.He could not talk, just sobbing and blurting somethings he saw that Iwouldrather not put in print.I flew in on American on Sunday after the SLCshow and some of thesecurity Isaw at the airports was appalling.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com John Kenealy wrote: Bret, I'm glad to hear your good news!! My family hada scary day yesterday also. Many of my cousinslive and work in the metropolitan area. Mycousin and close friend, John Baker, is a NYCFireman and is stationed in "alphabet city"close to where this all happened. Most of hiscompany is among the missing in the rubble. He,thank God, is alive and busy with the work athand. His father is a retired Lieutenant in theNYC fire department and works as a consultant infire safety for many of the companies down townand was among the missing until last night.Thankfully, he is alive and well.Let our thoughts and prayers go out to thosepeople and their families, who are among themissing, dead and those still in danger whiletrying to rescue others. I think that the world will see the truestrength of America and Americans in theaftermath of this horrific action. Yes, we havethe strongest, best equipped military in theworld, and its full force should be brought tobear on all those responsible for this act, butour true strength is the ability to cometogether as one, discarding our differences, andmobilize to do good works. It is already being seen with blood banks beingjammed, food and supplies coming in quickly. Weshould be proud of America and be proud andthankful to be Americans. John K. At 01:20 PM 9/11/01 -0400, Grhghlndr@aol.comwrote: Thanks to all who have expressed concern formy son being out there. He hascalled me on the phone and said they are OK.I told him I talked to thepeople from the label he is signed with andthey told me to tell the boys toget in their tour van and head for theMidwest. The CMJ Festival is going tobe canceled in Midtown Manhattan this weekend. Bret from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Sep 12 11:38:58 2001 f8CGcvZ01608 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:38:57 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Holbrook 310 rod. Hi to all,First I'd like respond to your inquiry about the Holbrook rod and then Iwant to conclude with a statement about the "Attack on America". Dawn Holbrook was a rod builder who lived a short way from me in an areanowincorporated as Shoreline, Washington. It's north of Seattle a nd south ofEdmonds where I live. He made bamboo fly rods, had his own rod company forawhile (I believe it was called the Rainbow Rod Co.) and taught classes inrod building in a small workshop adjacent to his home. I believe thisoccurred in the 60's, 70's and early 80's. He died some years back. Themodels he made included No's: 91, 100, 197, 203, 308, 310, 414, 415, 425,&525 and varied in lengths from 7ft to 9 1/2 ft.One of my first rod building experiences in the late 70's was to visit Dawnat one of his rod building classes. The model 310 that I am familiar with isan 8 1/2 ft x 2pc model made for a weight forward 9 line. I do know too thathe often made rods with two different tip sections one longer than the otherso that the rod could be used as an 8 1/2 ft or a 9ft. In an articlewritten up by his friend and associate Andy Hall in 1965 and revised anumber of times later there are references to four types of glue: Weldwood,Epoxy, Cascophen and Urac 185 and to two types of finish: Marine Spar andVarmor. He blued his ferrules using gun bluing formula 44/40.The value of this rod depends greatly on its condition of course, but I'dplace it in the $200-500 range. Now regarding the attack on America. As are many of you I'm shocked,angeredand dismayed at this terrible incident. Sept.11, 2001 is truly another "Daythat will live in infamy". Following the tragedy come many stories ofheroism and patriotism and evidence of the strength and courage ofAmericansand their many friends worldwide. This morning on the news I saw aninterview with a mother of one of the passengers on the flight that crashednear Pittsburgh. She described a telephone conversation with her sonmomentsbefore the plane crashed where he said that 3 hijackers had taken over butthat he and others would do something about it since they were going to dieanyway. Perhaps that's why that plane never got back to the Pentagon or toNew York and thus saved the lives of many potential victims. It was truly amoving story. Let us all remain steadfast in our beliefs in Democracy andfreedom and each do what we can to help.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Holbrook 310 rod. I have a Dawn Holbrook 9'6" Bamboo Flyrod does anybody know about whatisworth??? Also History on the Man.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message -----From: "Dennis Haftel" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:11 PMSubject: Holbrook 310 rod. All, At the Catskills Gathering there was a bit of interest in a rod that Ibrought to fish alongside the Bait Fisherman for that elusive monster of the pond. It was a dark-flamed Dawn Holbrook 8 1/2 foot rod that was originally made for a weight forward nine, but cast a Triangle Taper 8 and a silk WF8 very well. I have found the PDF file that contains the original taper(among others) on three inch centers as well as a spreadsheet that contains a conversion to five inch centers (thanks to Art Port for his assistancewith the conversion), upon which this particular rod was made. If anyone is interested please contact me off-list and I'll send you both documents. Dennis Haftel from gjm80301@yahoo.com Wed Sep 12 11:47:17 2001 f8CGlGZ02600 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:47:16 - 12 Sep 2001 09:47:09 PDT Subject: Re: Price gouging No gas reports, but Hertz wants $500 to rent a car to take out of thearea. That will be discussed when this settles down. It was looking like the flight I'm now on at 7AM tomorrow would go,but the FAA failed to hold a scheduled noon conference to announcetiming. I'll bet we'll never see so few cars, so few people and so many copsin Manhattan again. Military planes are overhead. Jerry --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Has anyone seen any price gouging for gas in your area. Certainstations in N. Indiana have started charging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 formid grade and 4.98 for premium, where some have stayed at the 1.58, 1.68 and1.78 range reported that are gouging and he said he will deal with them accordingly __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!Messengerhttp://im.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Sep 12 14:06:21 2001 f8CJ6JZ19888 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:06:20 - (authenticated) Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:06:03 -0700 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (long!) --------------443A79CB0489233DD6CE22EA Reed, my dear friend... I'm sure I do not have a reasonable answer to your questions concerningwhatJesus would do in this situation. My plea is that we seek not only a human,emotional response to these horrible days, but a reasoned, spiritual approachaswell. My gut tells me that we should respond quickly and harshly, but thinkingonlywith my gut is dangerous. Let me offer some further thoughts. Perhaps, after this, should wedecide todiscuss this further we should take it off the list and keep it private. I'drathernot say anything at all than risk losing your friendship or your respect. I'msureyou feel the same way. ************** Philosophers today say that Christianity has been tried and found wanting. Itmight be more correct to say that Christianity has been tried and founddifficult.The prophet Isaiah said of the coming Suffering Servant, "And thegovernmentshall be upon his shoulder." I'm not so sure I understand what that means,but let'slisten to the words of Jesus concerning love and hate: "You have heard thatit wassaid, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you,Love yourenemies and pray for those who persecute you."What does that say to us today, if not, "You have heard it said, You shallloveAmerica and hate her enemies, but I say to you, Love the terrorists, andpray forthose who hold our way of life, hostage." Have we tried? It isn't easy, is it?Watching television we get the idea that it is easy to be a Palestinian inIsrael.They are dancing in the street. I am sure of one thing, and that is it's verydifficult to be both an American and a Christian today.In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus recalled the Old Testament words, "Youhaveheard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth...." One ofthemost misunderstood passages in all the Bible. Jesus refers to a law found inExodus,Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. A law which underscores, One eye for One eye;one tooth devised todeal with his enemy was unlimited retaliation. "Kill my cat, and I'll kill yourcat,your dog, your mule, and you, too." The predecessor of this idea of unlimitedretaliation is of course, "might makes right." Obviously that is anunacceptable today.To the early Hebrews, however, it was clearer than it is to many of usthat theultimate end result of unlimited retaliation is mutual self- destruction. Thereis abetter way, and that better way is what early Israel sought. Therefore, thenotionof limited retaliation arose. In the 21st chapter of Exodus we read that intheevent one person harmed another, "Then shalt thou give life for life, eye foreye,tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound forwound,stripe for stripe." Limited retaliation is certainly a step forward overunlimitedretaliation. Limited retaliation is do unto others as they do unto you. "Geteven,but no more." Limited retaliation is what most people have in mind when theyspeakof justice. It's the justification most frequently sighted in support of capitalpunishment.But Jesus then talks of a third stage, one that comes after unlimited andlimited retaliation, limited love. Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said,Youshall love your neighbor and hate your enemy." Actually, in the LeviticuspassageJesus quotes, the scripture says, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Again,this is a step forward. Limited love is better than limited retaliation. Butwhenthe "neighbor" is limited to one of our "own" people, then limited love hassupportedsuch ideas as white supremacy, religious bigotry, the Nazi Holocaust, and"America Limited loveis more self-serving than generous. Jesus recognized that when he said, "Ifyou lovethose who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectorsdo thesame?"Then comes the demand which we read in the Sermon on the Mount. "You,therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Thistranslation isdifficult. The Greek word really means "to be perfected," or "completed,""finished." This is the same word Jesus used on the cross to say, "It isfinished."So maybe we could translate the sentence, "You, therefore, must becompletely mature,even as your Father is mature. (my translation)" In other words, unlimitedretaliation is babyish, limited retaliation is childish, limited love is adolescent.Only unlimited love, that applies universally to all races and nations isevidence ofmaturity. God's desire is that his children be as adult as He is. How then does this apply to the on-going crisis in New York and Washington?Well, that's about as clear as the skies have been for the last rainymonth inLouisiana. Surely we see that our judgments are subjective. Surely we don'tthinkwe have all the answers. Anyone who thinks he has all the answers doesn'thave allthe questions! Still, we must strive to think as Christians. To help us thinkasChristians, let me add one more thought: Jesus said, "You have heard it said"---and then came a law --- "but I say unto you," and then came Jesus'understanding ofthe will of God. Jesus always insisted that the will of God is never somethingless,but always something more, than the law. The great temptation for us tostay, notjust with limited love, but to move backwards to limited, or even unlimitedretaliation. But suppose Isaiah was right, "And the government shall be uponhisshoulders," not our shoulders. Suppose we go from limited love to unlimitedlove?When I was in kindergarten, my mother taught me that two wrongs don'tmake aright. They simply make two wrongs that need to be righted. Unfortunately,today,few really want to see that wrong is righted. Instead, we want vengeance,retaliiation, to prove we are powerful. And somehow we convince ourselvesthat if weare powerful, then God is on our side. And isn't that the same heresy wecondemnterrorists for?Jesus taught unlimited love. If we really believe in unlimited love, if we putourselves in a position of unlimited love, then we should try to rise above ourpresent condition. We ought to be willing to let an impartial justice decidewhat isright. Perhaps we owe it to ourselves to ask the United Nations to step in. These thoughts are incomplete, I know. And I apologize for that. I don'thaveall the anwers. I don't even know all the questions. But I would urge allpeopleeverywhere to act from reason rather than emotion.If I might take off the symbollic clerical collar for a moment, I would saythatevil needs to be dealt with firmly, but lovingly -- just as you have suggested.Discipline may include acts too terrible for me to comprehend. There is adifferencein the situation you describe with your son. Your hope for your son is that helearnand grow from discipline. In seeking to deal with our enemies, we want themto stoptheir horrible actions, not to grow. Perhaps the only way to end this is tobringthose enemies to a swift and certain end. Again, I'd rather just hush than risk losing your friendship. And I'm morethanhappy to keep my fingers off the keyboard from now on.. My very best wishes,Harry Reed Curry wrote: Harry,I would like to give another Christian perspective on this.Granted that we are to love (agape not philios) our enemies, this love isnot inconsistent with punishing them for violating the rights or livesof others. Just as I love my son, if he breaks a rule he must bepunished. Yet, the punishment is administered in love. According to mostChristian teachings this is best exhibited in the fact that God lovesMan, but Man is not fit for God's presence... therefore, Man must die.When an indiviual recognizes this about himself, he dies to that self(spiritually but figuratively through Baptism) and lives thereafterthrough Christ.Punishment of those who commit injustices can be done in love... failureto punish those who murder others is to fail to accept that love is morethan a "feeling", it is to deny that there is life beyond the grave andplaces temporal happiness as the absolute.I can pray for the people who planned the attacks of yesterday, that theymay come to a clear understanding of their actions. If they did seetheir acts in God's light, they would be so offended with themselves,they would welcome a temporal death. But whether or not they repent oftheir actions, their crime has a punishment within this world. Jesus didsay that if a man strikes me one cheek, I must turn to him the other andgave us other instances of a loving response to a mild injustice. He DIDNOT say that if a man kill my daughter, I should give him my son as well.What would Jesus do? This is the God-made- Man that calmly made aknottedwhip to drive the moneychangers from the temple. What do you think hewould do?Best regards,Reed --------------443A79CB0489233DD6CE22EA Reed, my dear friend... is that we seek not only a human, emotional response to these horrible that we should respond quickly and harshly, but thinking only with my gutis dangerous. Perhaps,after this, should we decide to discuss this further we should take it feel the same way.************** has been tried and found difficult. Suffering so sure I understand what that means, but let's listen to the words ofJesus concerning love and hate: "You have heard that it was said, You shall enemies and pray for those who persecute you." have heard it said, You shall love America and hate her enemies, but Isay to you, Love the terrorists, and pray for those who hold our way of Watching television we get the idea that it is easy to be a Palestinian thing, and that is it's very difficult to be both an American and a Christiantoday. Testament words, "You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and and Deuteronomy. A law which underscores, One eye for One eye; one tooth ancient The predecessor of this idea of unlimited retaliation is of course, "might that still governs many of the actions in our world today. clearerthan it is to many of us that the ultimate end result of unlimited retaliation in the event one person harmed another, "Then shalt thou give life forlife, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning retaliation Limited retaliation is what most people have in mind when they speak of of capital punishment. that comes after unlimited and limited retaliation, limited Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor quotes, "own" people, then limited love has supported such ideas as white supremacy,religious bigotry, the Nazi Holocaust, and "America for Americans," (which, tax collectors do the same?" the heavenly So maybe we could translate the sentence, "You, therefore, must becompletely words, unlimited retaliation is babyish, limitedretaliation unlimited love, that applies desire is that his children be as adult as He is.How then does this apply to the on-going crisis in New York andWashington? Anyone who thinks he has all the answers doesn't have all the insisted that the will of God is never something less, but always something with limited love, but to move backwards to limited, or even unlimitedretaliation. But suppose Isaiah was right, "And the government shall be go from limited love to unlimited love? that heresy we condemn terrorists for? believe in unlimited love, if we put ourselves in a position of unlimited Perhaps we owe it to ourselves to ask the United Nations to step in. to act from reason rather than emotion. situation only way to end this is to bring those enemies to a swift and certain end. keyboard from now on.. Reed Curry wrote:Harry, anotherChristian perspective on this. love(agape not philios) our enemies, this love isnot inconsistent with punishing them for violating the rights or livesof others. Just as I love my son, if he breaks a rule he must bepunished. Yet, the punishment is administered in love. According tomostChristian teachings this is best exhibited in the fact that God lovesMan, but Man is not fit for God's presence... therefore, Man must die.When an indiviual recognizes this about himself, he dies to that self(spiritually but figuratively through Baptism) and lives thereafterthrough Christ. whocommit injustices can be done in love... failureto punish those who murder others is to fail to accept that love ismorethan a "feeling", it is to deny that there is life beyond the graveandplaces temporal happiness as the absolute. who planned the attacks of yesterday, that theymay come to a clear understanding of their actions. If they did seetheir acts in God's light, they would be so offended with themselves,they would welcome a temporal death. But whether or not they repentoftheir actions, their crime has a punishment within this world. Jesusdidsay that if a man strikes me one cheek, I must turn to him the otherandgave us other instances of a loving response to a mild injustice. HeDIDNOT say that if a man kill my daughter, I should give him my son aswell. Thisis the God-made-Man that calmly made a knottedwhip to drive the moneychangers from the temple. What do you thinkhewould do?Best regards,Reed --------------443A79CB0489233DD6CE22EA-- from patrick.w.coffey@Boeing.com Wed Sep 12 14:33:46 2001 f8CJXjZ27574 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:33:45 - OAA16232; MAA28834; f8CJXZV09009; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:33:35 -0700 "'fbcwin@3g.quik.com'" Subject: RE: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (long!) Harry is right they should be dealt with lovingly, maybe we should right Ilove you on the cruise missiles. Those of us that lost friends in this messsee thing differently when it happens to them compared to when it happenstoothers. A part of me, the intelligent part, says deal with them with mybrain but the other part of me says deal with them with my heart and speakthe only language to them that they understand. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:03 PM Cc: rodSubject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (long!) If I might take off the symbollic clerical collar for a moment, Iwould say that evil needs to be dealt with firmly, but lovingly -- just asyou have suggested. Discipline may include acts too terrible for me tocomprehend. There is a difference in the situation you describe with yourson. Your hope for your son is that he learn and grow from discipline.In seeking to deal with our enemies, we want them to stop their horribleactions, not to grow. Perhaps the only way to end this is to bring thoseenemies to a swift and certain end. Again, I'd rather just hush than risk losing your friendship. And I'mmore than happy to keep my fingers off the keyboard from now on.. My very best wishes, Harry from OSEGAL@glcc.com Wed Sep 12 14:57:54 2001 f8CJvrZ03972 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:57:53 - with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:59:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Late night thoughts from the UK To all my countrymen and friends from around the world, Being a US citizen living as an expatriate outside the motherland, I =cannot do anything else but cry in despair for my fellow Americans that =are suffering so much pain. With tears in my eyes I sat for countless =hours in front of a TV set, wondering if what I was seeing was real or, by =an act of God, I was going to eventually wake up from that nightmare that =was the coward terrorist attack the US suffered yesterday. I sat for hours, after president Bush's first address to the nation, =trying to find inspiration and resolve to mitigate the profound pain and =sorrow I feel, and then I realized that what my heart wanted and wished =the most was that his words would turn into an endless source of inspiratio=n, strength, and courage for all the people that had to suffer on their = I pry to our good Lord that all my dear brothers in the USA will find the =necessary strength to withstand so much pain and sorrow. I also pry to God=that the culprit will be brought to justice and that this tremendous crime =against our people and our country won't go unpunished. God bless you all, God bless America!! To all my countrymen and friends from around world, Being a US citizen living as an expatriate outside the motherland,&nbs= cannot do anything else but cry in despair for my fellow Americans that = suffering so much pain. With tears in my eyes I sat for countless hours in = the coward terrorist attack the US suffered yesterday. I sat for hours, after president Bush's first address to the nation, = to find inspiration and resolve to mitigate the profound pain and sorrow I = and then I realized that what my heart wanted and wished the most was that= words would turn into an endless source of inspiration, strength, and = this barbaric act. I pry to our good Lord that all my dear brothers in the USA will find = necessary strength to withstand so much pain and sorrow. I also pry to God= the culprit will be brought to justice and that this tremendous crime = our people and our country won't go unpunished. Dittos man. What a wonderful group of individuals, from all over = world. Everyone, a deepfelt thank you for all the thoughts and = going up for our country and the victims of these events.Rich= = 8412 = Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.co= home page: http://members.nbci.com/= genealogy pages: http://members.nb= from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Sep 12 15:40:35 2001 f8CKeXZ18674 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:40:33 - Subject: Heddon 7.5' RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu LOL my spell check wanted me to put in hedonism for Heddon in the lastthread.I am not trying to downplay what happened yesterday but I feel we all could use something else to talk about. Let us not forget though what happenedand keep any posts going that are involving any family and friends on the list. I know we all are just as worried and concerned about our friends here as we are about our own families and this is greatly appreciated by all.Bret LOL my spell checkwanted me to put in hedonism for Heddon in the last thread.I am not trying to downplay what happened yesterday but I feel we allcould happened and keep any posts going that are involving any family and friends on the I know we all are just as worried and concerned about our friends hereas we are about our own families and this is greatly appreciated by all.Bret from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Sep 12 15:43:32 2001 f8CKhVZ19741 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:43:31 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) Harry, I think that this discussion is cogent and, certainly pertinent to the times, if not to the general purpose of the list. I hope that our fellow listmembers will forgive this OT thread. Jump in any time to slap me down, Mike B.. Briefly, the point at which we diverge is on the definition of "Love" and the possible consequences of that definition. Too often today we mistake a pallid, insipid, anaemic affection for "love". It is true that "God is Love", but it is also true that "our God is a consuming fire". God will do to us whatever is necessary in order to awaken us to a greater knowledge of him (see the tribulations of Job or the book of Acts). His love is not concerned with our temporal comforts, so much as our spiritual advancement... this some may consider harsh, but it is Love. If I see a pedophile attacking a young child and the only way I can stop it is by killing the man, what would Love dictate I do? Should my love should I walk away, hoping the police (UN) can sort it out? There is nothing un-loving in killing the pedophile. You can do it without judging him, you are judging his actions and saving him from committing yet further barbarities upon others. This may sound like Jesuitical justification for the fact that the Emotions, disgust with pedophilia, send the same message as Reason... Kill Him. But we should not discard something as true simply because it also accords with our brute nature. Love is not an emotion, it is greater than that; nor is it Reason, it is greater than that. Love, is our intangible link to the infinite. And sometimes it speaks hard words. (see Isaac on the altar)Best regards,Reed from Canerods@aol.com Wed Sep 12 15:45:29 2001 f8CKjQZ20434 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:45:26 - Subject: Re: Price gouging RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/12/01 9:47:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gjm80301@yahoo.com writes: No gas reports, but Hertz wants $500 to rent a car to take out of thearea. That will be discussed when this settles down. That's not out of the ordinary - drop off charges have been around foryears. Don B. In a message dated9/12/01 9:47:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gjm80301@yahoo.com writes: No gas reports, but Hertz wants $500 to rent a car to take out of the That's not out of the ordinary - drop off charges have been around foryears. Don B. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Sep 12 15:52:13 2001 f8CKqAZ22609 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:52:11 - Subject: Heddon 7.5' RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Guys,I think it is time we put some rod stuff on here so here is a question for you. Does anyone have the taper for a Heddon 7.5' rod that will throw either a 4 or a 5 weight rod? I would like to build something on a Heddon taper in this size to fish on the Dowagiac River. Also if anyone has any tapers for shorter Heddons maybe we can get some of those listed as well.Bret Guys,I think it is time we put some rod stuff on here so here is a question for throw either taper in tapers for shorter Heddons maybe we can get some of those listed as well.Bret from le_moucheux@hotmail.com Wed Sep 12 16:05:33 2001 f8CL5WZ26531 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:05:32 -0500 Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:05:25 -0700 Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:05:25 GMT FILETIME=[A47F4330:01C13BCE] A great tribute from a canadian who appreciates andsees the qualities of having a neighbor like the United States is a privilegeand an honor. The following, from a Canadian newspaper, isworth sharing. Its subject is America: The Good Neighbor. Widespread but only partial news coverage wasgiven recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto byGordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on allthe earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy werelifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billionsof dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of thesecountries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to theUnited States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it wasthe tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating overthe erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Doesany other country in the world have a plane to equal the BoeingJumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don'tthey fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly AmericanPlanes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on laws, aregetting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When thePennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned times when the Americansraced to the help of other people in trouble. Canada is not one of those." from richjez@enteract.com Wed Sep 12 16:38:35 2001 f8CLcYZ03177 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:38:34 - Subject: Re: Price gouging --=====================_4299763==_.ALT Was that an imperial gallon? It does have an extra quart. i.e. 25%more.Rich At 10:19 AM 9/12/01, Tony Young wrote: $3.65 per gal. I filled up yesterday. Tony --=====================_4299763==_.ALT Was that an imperial gallon? It does have an extra quart.i.e. 25%more.Rich At 10:19 AM 9/12/01, Tony Young wrote:$3.65 per gal. I filled up yesterday. Tony --=====================_4299763==_.ALT-- from dickay@alltel.net Wed Sep 12 16:46:30 2001 f8CLkSZ04905 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:46:28 - srv.alltel.net Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:46:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Price gouging Rich, You said what I was going to say. I believe that the Aussies use =the Imperial Gallon which is made up of Liters and is thus larger than =the US Gallon.Dick Fuhrman Subject: Re: Price gouging Was that an imperial gallon? It does have an extra quart. i.e. =25%more.Rich At 10:19 AM 9/12/01, Tony Young wrote: $3.65 per gal. I filled up yesterday. Tony the Aussies use the Imperial Gallon which is made up of Liters and is = larger than the US Gallon.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Jezioro Cc: cbogart@shentel.net ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, September 12,= PMSubject: Re: Price =gougingWas that an imperial gallon? It does = quart. i.e. 25%more.RichAt 10:19 AM 9/12/01, Tony Young=wrote: =yesterday.Tony from rodwrapp@swbell.net Wed Sep 12 17:10:45 2001 f8CMAiZ10097 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:10:44 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Making Snake guides I was at my local Tackle store and saw they had wire for making spinnerbaits, and it said Nickel alloy Stainless Steel leter wire... I wqonder if you canuse this wire for making snake guides???? Thanks Dave I was at my local Tackle store and saw theyhad wire for making spinner baits, and it said Nickel alloy Stainless Steel leter from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Sep 12 17:13:50 2001 f8CMDgZ10924 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:13:42 - Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:13:01 -0400 "Coffey, Patrick W" Subject: Garrison 201E 5-wt 4-piece type="multipart/alternative"; Clear DayPer request I have attached specs and pictures of the rod I =mentioned earlier. Lee Clear Day BODY { MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; COLOR:#0033cc; =FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica} Per request I have attached specs and pictures of the rod I = earlier. Lee from ddeloach@pcisys.net Wed Sep 12 17:25:34 2001 f8CMPYZ12980 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:25:34 - env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) , Subject: TIPS on bombing Don't intend to drag this out unecessarily, but here is the FBI's =statement regarding reporting leads on the bombing: The FBI has established a toll-free telephone number for anyone with =information regarding the incidents on September 11 in New York City and =the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area. Please call 1-866-483-5137 with =any information. A form has also been placed on the Internet at =http://www.ifccfbi.gov to report information. Visit the FBI's press =release section for recent press releases about these events. Thought this might be a good idea to spread around the NYC and East =Coast area listers RgdsDon DeLoachColorado Springs Subject: Re: My son in NY I am thankful that you have good news of your family and friends. It = really a sad thing when you start to hear a lot of the stories. I = Fox News right now and Hillary Clinton is talking. She said that many = people on the planes were made to call home on their cell phones and = others did this on their own accord from the planes that were = Imagine the pain their families were experiencing as they were told by = loved ones that their planes were going down and that they wanted to = them they loved them. This is more than a lot of these people will be = to bear and you can be assured the aftermath of some of this will be = being ripped apart by the things that I keep hearing. We on the list = Americans I can only hope that this will bring us closer together and = foreign friends I can only say Thank You guys and I hope you keep us = Don't intend to drag this out = bombing: The FBI has established a toll-free = number for anyone with information regarding the incidents on September = 1-866-483-5137 with any information. A form has also been placed on the = at ht= to report information. Visit the FBI's press release = recent press releases about these events. Thought this might be a good idea to = the NYC and East Coast area listers RgdsDon DeLoachColorado Springs ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com ; flyfish@defnet.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Wednesday, September 12,= AMSubject: Re: My son in NYJohn,I = people on the planes were made to call home on their cell phones = others did this on their own accord from the planes that were = people will be able to bear and you can be assured the aftermath = of this will be suicides by the survivors just as there were in = this will bring us closer together and our foreign friends I can = Thank You guys and I hope you keep us and our country in your = Bret from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Wed Sep 12 18:12:18 2001 f8CNCHZ18997 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:12:17 - Subject: A great Canadian's Observation Mike, A great piece by Gordon Sinclair. Having lived all my life on the Canadian border and half my relatives beingof Canadian desent, it is nice to hear something good at times like this. Having served in the US navy at the end of the 60's and watching a pile ofmy friends come home in boxes. And at the time listening to all the foreigncountries condem and shit on my country ,I couldn't and still can't figureeverything out I was stationed in morroco for 1 and 1/2 years . At the time I was goingonto the USS Liberty. My commander talked me out of it . What happenednexteas one of the biggest coverups in US history. The Israelies, supposedley are friends,blew the ship up . Killing 41 andwounding 100 plus . Shortly after they had another 7 day war .Which hadbeengoing on for thousands of years. Those folks over there don't care aboutanything living or dead. Anyway, we just keep giving them money. That time ,it was 7 million. Years latter ,Desert Storm, we went in and set up patriot missles to protectthe Israelies from the scud missles Sadam was launching . When that was all over Israel sent the US a bill for 50 million plus. Thatstory was in News week or Times. The reason for the bill,you won't believe ,was interuption of tourism!!!!!!! WE PAYED IT111111111111111111 I've rambelled enough..... come home and i was spit on and called baby killer and all kinds of names .Ithrough my sea bag down on a bench and walked away .NEVER TO RETURN . I don't know why I have told you this ,but it is the first time I have saidanything about it in 33years. One day everyone in the whole world will get along ,I hope.. In the meantime, I wish the best for all the families who have loved onesinvolved in the attack on the USA. JimVermont from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Sep 12 18:22:06 2001 f8CNM6Z19669 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:22:06 - v4.1.40/v4157. . Clean. Processed in 1.767355 secs); 12 Sep 200123:18:59 -0000 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... I do believe he would say " let him without sin cast the first rocket" I also dobelieve he is NOT Pro-Choice. Marty Reed Curry wrote: Harry,I would like to give another Christian perspective on this.Granted that we are to love (agape not philios) our enemies, this love isnot inconsistent with punishing them for violating the rights or livesof others. Just as I love my son, if he breaks a rule he must bepunished. Yet, the punishment is administered in love. According to mostChristian teachings this is best exhibited in the fact that God lovesMan, but Man is not fit for God's presence... therefore, Man must die.When an indiviual recognizes this about himself, he dies to that self(spiritually but figuratively through Baptism) and lives thereafterthrough Christ.Punishment of those who commit injustices can be done in love... failureto punish those who murder others is to fail to accept that love is morethan a "feeling", it is to deny that there is life beyond the grave andplaces temporal happiness as the absolute.I can pray for the people who planned the attacks of yesterday, that theymay come to a clear understanding of their actions. If they did seetheir acts in God's light, they would be so offended with themselves,they would welcome a temporal death. But whether or not they repent oftheir actions, their crime has a punishment within this world. Jesus didsay that if a man strikes me one cheek, I must turn to him the other andgave us other instances of a loving response to a mild injustice. He DIDNOT say that if a man kill my daughter, I should give him my son as well.What would Jesus do? This is the God-made- Man that calmly made aknottedwhip to drive the moneychangers from the temple. What do you think hewould do?Best regards,Reed Harry Boyd wrote: Churches around our country, and probably around ourworld, gathered for prayer tonight. Most ministers, likeme, probably struggled for something to say. Since many ofyou who receive this are my fly fishing friends, you may notappreciate these comments. Still I hope that my infrequencyof sharing overtly religious messages with those who are notchurch friends will prohibit a series of flames. Iorganized a gathering of several hundred people in ourlittle Louisiana town of 7700 this afternoon. Catholics,Presbyterians, Methodists, Pentecostals, Disciples ofChrist, and Baptists all met at our Church. If you're atall interested in what I shared, I've cut and pasted itbelow. God bless,Harry Boyd *********Massive evil clouds our understanding and covers uswith ashes of anger. The images of burning and collapsingbuildings now forever etched on our souls leave the nationthick-tongued and tired. We in the Christian community have little clearperspective other than that of Jesus. And in times of suchhorrific violence and unspeakable sadness, his teachingsmust be the guiding rule. In the Sermon on the Mount, wefind seven clear touchstones for this painful, bewilderingtime. We would do well to remember the words of Jesus and torecite them. Jesus said: 1. "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will becomforted."2. "Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy."3. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be calledchildren of God."4. "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." 5. "Strive first for the kingdom of God and hisrighteousness."6. "In everything do to others as you would have them do toyou."7. "Everyone ... who hears these words of mine and acts onthem will be like a wise man who builds his house on rock." Jesus' wisdom and witness must chart our course in thisvery sinful world where evil multiplies evil, anger feedsanger, injustice breeds injustice, vengeance begetsvengeance. All too soon, some within our society will speak interms of holy war, hunting campaigns and quick strikes. Whenthe public discourse turns from grief to retaliation, thecommunity of faith must offer a different language andarticulate different solutions. When some rush towards revenge, those of faith must beslow to speak about retribution. When some quickly denounceMuslims and demonize them, we must avoid the false witnessthat universalizes harmful attributes to those of differentreligions. This is a call to prayer, not to arms. As proudas we are to be Americans, and as deeply hurt as we aretoday, let's not forget that our call as followers of JesusChrist is to be like Him, and to react in the way He wouldtoday. Let us grieve with those who grieve, uphold theprinciples of justice in our world, and pray that a swiftsolution will come. Amen --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Sep 12 20:11:47 2001 f8D1BkZ23768 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:11:46 - Subject: granger tapers Hello All,Just got the computer back together and in theprocess came across these tapers. Problemis they don't list what weight of line they throw.Can anyone provide line weight and guide spacing tiaBrad Granger Tapers 8' 6" Aristocrat 8' Favorite 7'6" Special 7' Aristocrat 0 062 070 0680625 073 084 08307210 092 101 09809215 109 118 11510820 122 131 13212025 137 145 14513530 150 154 16014535 168 169 17615840 187 186 18917045 206 199 20119650 220 210 21821055 232 217 23422960 240 223 24624165 245 241 25825370 264 260 27126275 283 273 28327180 290 288 33128485 306 331 33132090 318 358 33133695 371 358100 380 358105 380 from rextutor@about.com Wed Sep 12 20:19:40 2001 f8D1JdZ24292 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:19:39 - (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: Making Snake guides LeClair has made a jog for this - works well . See it at the golden witch.Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Sep 12 20:23:49 2001 f8D1NmZ24690 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:23:48 - Subject: Re: Price gouging That's a US gal in Aust$ which *currently* converts to about $US2 a gal BUT from what I've seen a dollar is a dollar as far as purchase and earning value goes meaning it's about as hard to earn a dollar here as in the US, and you can get about as much for a $ when it comes to spending value as long as you're not buying an import which is of course bought at the current exchange rate.I'll put it another way, when the Aust$ was trading at about $.80 fuel was still around the same price. The US just has cheap fuel in general compared to elsewhere by comparison. Tony At 04:41 PM 9/12/01 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: Was that an imperial gallon? It does have an extra quart. i.e. 25%more.Rich At 10:19 AM 9/12/01, Tony Young wrote: $3.65 per gal. I filled up yesterday. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Sep 12 20:27:43 2001 f8D1RgZ25040 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:27:42 - Subject: Re: Price gouging I converted to Gal by considering a gal to be 1litre x 4 so .91c per litre x 4 = $3.65 At 04:41 PM 9/12/01 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: Was that an imperial gallon? It does have an extra quart. i.e. 25%more.Rich At 10:19 AM 9/12/01, Tony Young wrote: $3.65 per gal. I filled up yesterday. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html And the hurrying people daunt me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, A.B.("Banjo") Paterson /*************************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Sep 12 20:33:02 2001 f8D1X2Z25446 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:33:02 - Subject: Re: Making Snake guides In a message dated 09/12/2001 6:11:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rodwrapp@swbell.net writes: Yes, you can use this wire for making snake guides. The wire used by most of the guys is spring steel wire. But, youhave to plate it or blue them and keep them oiled, so they won'trust. with the stainless wire, you don't have to worry about itrusting. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from irish-george@chartermi.net Wed Sep 12 20:46:42 2001 f8D1kfZ26162 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:46:41 - Subject: Re: Price gouging I've seen it but not to that degree. I NEEDED gas on the way home last =evening but noticed all the pumps were busy (no line up), so I figured =I'd buy it this morning. My closest station had regular for 2.39, a few =miles further it had dropped to 1.99, and near work it was the normal =1.79. What is really reprehensible is that HOTELS have been gouging stranded =travelers. Someone called into a local radio station to say hotels near =Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW) were charging $200 per night...these =aren't Radissons and Westins, they are normally $60-90 per night places =that are comparable to (or below) a Holiday Inn. George Subject: Price gouging Has anyone seen any price gouging for gas in your area. Certain = N. Indiana have started charging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 for mid = and 4.98 for premium, where some have stayed at the 1.58, 1.68 and = I've seen it but not to that = gas on the way home last evening but noticed all the pumps were busy (no = normal 1.79. What is really reprehensible is that = to say hotels near Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW) were charging $200 = night...these aren't Radissons and Westins, they are normally $60-90 per = places that are comparable to (or below) a Holiday Inn. George ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12,= AMSubject: Price gougingHasanyone = have started charging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 for mid grade = from irish-george@chartermi.net Wed Sep 12 20:51:46 2001 f8D1pkZ26535 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:51:46 - , Subject: Re: Price gouging I am SO glad to see that. Businesses think consumers have a short =memory. I'll tell you how short mine is: one minute before midnight on =the last day Arco accepted credit cards, I bought $1 worth of gasoline =on it. In the 15 years since, I haven't even been on Arco property.. George Subject: Re: Price gouging They did the same thing down here for about half the day =yesterday... dropped the prices late last night, so now they are only 20 =cents a gallon higher than yesterday... EXCEPT at one old rednecks gas =station. He didn't raise his, wasn't going to take advantage of the =panic, and he has people lined up to buy at his little convenience =store. The parking lots of the others looked unusually empty as I went =to town this morning. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Subject: Price gouging Has anyone seen any price gouging for gas in your area. Certain = N. Indiana have started charging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 for = and 4.98 for premium, where some have stayed at the 1.58, 1.68 and = minute before midnight on the last day Arco accepted credit cards, I = on Arco property.. George ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley = Sent: Wednesday, September 12,= AMSubject: Re: Price =gouging Bret, about half the day yesterday... dropped the prices late last night, so = they are only 20 cents a gallon higher than yesterday... EXCEPT at one = as I went to town this morning. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September = 9:16 AMSubject: Price gougingHas = have started charging as much as 2.98 for reg. 3.98 for mid grade = 4.98 for premium, where some have stayed at the 1.58, 1.68 and 1.78 = accordingly from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Sep 12 21:21:44 2001 f8D2LhZ27720 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:21:43 - Subject: Re: Price gouging(long, sorry!) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,Grhghlndr@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/01 8:57:59 PM Central Daylight Time, irish- george@chartermi.net writes: In Iowa, the Petro-N-Provisions AKA P-n-P which is a convienence store chain, is fairly common. the local P-P shops were immedidately bumped to about$3- 4 a gallon last night. The other local chain, also a convienence store chain, Affiliated with Phillips 66 (Handimart) kept their prices at the same $1.63 that it had been all dday. down from $1.85 the day before. I have been a regular customer of Handimart for many years. I will probably NEVER enter a P-P except maybe on my bicycle.Speaking of which, this is off topic even more, but here goes. I am also on the HPV list which caters to bicycle people. I began "voting with my feet" when the gas prices got so high a year or so ago. since the oil companies and the government seem to think that I (as well as everyone else in the country) am made out of money, I decided to opt out of paying for it as much as possible. I ride my bicycle as much as possible, I am building a bike to haul cargo (like groceries, and fishing gear too!) and when that is not possible, my Honda 125S which gets 90 mpg. My little Ford gets about30 mpg and I use it as seldom as I can get away with. Not to get on my high horse, but we use too much fuel and waste toomuch. MY personal choice is to use a bicycle as much as possible. Do what you want to. But the other benefit is that my BP is down, my Coleseterol is 180 (up from 179 a few years ago) I have lost 15 lbs this summer, and my 48th birthday is Friday.I have nothing against fueled vehicles, I drive a semi for a living, but I personally choose to not allow these people to steal my money. Cars cost $1000 or more per month to operate and I choose to use mine as little as possible.Again, sorry for my soapbox. But this kind of thing gripes me. Actually there IS fishing content here! I use my cyclocross bike (18 speeds, knobby narrow tires) or my Mountain bike, which is a pedal powered jeep if there ever was one! to go fishing. I can go down narrow trails that a jeep can't get down, I can carry my flyrod in a carrier and my gear in a padded bag strapped to the rack. I never get stuck where I can't winch it out, if I have to I can carry the darn thing across a stream too deep to ford or up a hill too steep to ride (or down!) It never runs out of gas, and I can cover pretty respectable distances. ( I have ridden over 100 miles in a day in the past) When I finish my small cargo trailer, I can carry my tent and my stove as well as gear to make me self sufficient for a week or more.In town, I can cruise at 15-20 mph easily, I can cut through traffic, slip down sidewalks, through parking lots, even school yards and down paths. I can ride my bike 3-4 times farther than I can hike comfortably and carrying more gear.Best of all, the gas company can't charge me $50 to take a trip fishing! Nor can the government tax me for riding it. Best of all, when it breaks, I can FIX it with a tool kit that I can carry in a pocket or in a small bag! Well, enough from me. I have done enough damage!mark from oakmere@carol.net Wed Sep 12 21:24:01 2001 f8D2O0Z27946 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:24:00 -0500 [216.215.132.145] (may be forged)) f8D2Ntm24093 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:23:55 -0400 Subject: RE: Reed and Harry's Discussion Hi Guys: I don't know about others, but I appreciate the frank and open discussion.It for me clearly reflects the dual nature of human thought and feeling. Ipersonally have had both since the evil acts (and as noted tonight on TVmay be continuing) were committed on good folks in NY and DC. We must allbelieve that the power of love and understanding will carry us throughthese trying times. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work); 864-656-7471oakmere@carol.net (home); 864-882-0077 from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Sep 12 21:45:31 2001 f8D2jUZ28999 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:45:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/12/01 9:24:31 PM Central Daylight Time, oakmere@carol.net writes: Guys! I am awestruck with the stories coming out of the disaster! I vividly remember hearing some guy who saved a person's life being called a hero. He said, in a thick brooklyn accent, "Ay,,I'm frum Noo Yark awright?" and he walked off! Then the guys who helped dig a cop out of the rubble, "Yeah, dis guy, 'e wuz stuk ,ya know? We helped ddig 'im out, no big deal!" I had always thought of New York as full of nasty, people and crime. I never thought of them like this!Maybe I will go there sometime! I never wanted to before!mark from lblan@provide.net Wed Sep 12 21:56:32 2001 f8D2uVZ29604 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:56:31 - for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:56:30 - Subject: Large attachments Hey folks, bear in mind that many list members are still on slow (14.4 or28.8) dial ups. Sending large attachments via the list is a hardship forthese members. A better solution would be to post the files to a web siteand include the url in the post. the intention of sharing with the list. With yesterdays events in mind, itwould be nice not to have to go through another flame war just now. I stillhave the title I "earned" from the last "large attachement" flame war handy,just in case though. [:)] Larry Blan from lblan@provide.net Wed Sep 12 22:02:24 2001 f8D32NZ00064 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:02:23 -0500 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:02:24 -0400 Subject: RE: Heroes (was Reed and Harry) How about the Ironworkers - insisting that they be allowed in before theauthorities considered it safe for them to do so. If there is one city inthe world that can recover from a tragedy like this, I'm confident it is NewYork City. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Lazybee45@aol.com Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/12/01 9:24:31 PM Central Daylight Time,oakmere@carol.net writes: Guys! I am awestruck with the stories coming out of the disaster! Ivividlyremember hearing some guy who saved a person's life being called a hero. Hesaid, in a thick brooklyn accent, "Ay,,I'm frum Noo Yark awright?" and hewalked off! Then the guys who helped dig a cop out of the rubble, "Yeah,disguy, 'e wuz stuk ,ya know? We helped ddig 'im out, no big deal!" I had always thought of New York as full of nasty, people and crime. Inever thought of them like this!Maybe I will go there sometime! I never wanted to before!mark from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Sep 12 22:27:57 2001 f8D3RpZ01384 for ; Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:27:51 - Subject: Re: Price gouging , You know, the price of fuel really shouldn't be rising due to shortage. I know I read OPEC have decided to increase oil production to keep prices stable because they felt stable prices suited them more than what happened after Desert Storm. If the prices are rising in the US, (they aren't here we pay through the nose anyhow) it's the oil companys not the producers unless OPEC have reneged. Tony At 09:54 PM 9/12/01 -0400, irish-george wrote: I am SO glad to see that. Businesses think consumers have a short memory. I'll tell you how short mine is: one minute before midnight on the last day Arco accepted credit cards, I bought $1 worth of gasoline on it. In the 15 years since, I haven't even been on Arco property.. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Sep 13 04:22:36 2001 f8D9MYZ11678 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 04:22:34 - Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) I'm not religious, sometimes I wish I were but I can't resolve the concepts, my wife and kids are however and I have no problem with people following their own ideas as long as I'm allowed to follow my own but correct me if I'm wrong here.Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was a Jew. What would the Israelis do if somebody hijacked 4 planes and drove them into places of significance tothem? There is a huge difference between two people having a personal disagreement with each other, one showing compassion to another who may have at the time be off his scone at the time and a few people killing thousands in a few moments after planing it for some time.Until recently this simply wasn't possible, it wasn't even dreamt of. In fact until recently this was something only gods were thought to be capable of. I'm not joking when I say this. If 1 US $billion was put on the head of the perpetrators dead or alive the problem would be resolved in a day or so. That wouldn't be the cost of a single day's ground combat would it? and no other innocents need die. Tony from lkoeser@ceva.net Thu Sep 13 06:22:42 2001 f8DBMfZ12914 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:22:41 - for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:25:10 -0400 Subject: Large Attachments type="multipart/alternative"; Clear DayI apologize for attaching the large files. The *.wps files are =MS Millenium word processing. I will attempt to send info off list to =anyone still interested. I will be attending my grandson's wedding over = Lee Clear Day BODY { MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; COLOR:#0033cc; =FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica} I apologize for attaching the large files. The *.wps files are MS = interested. I will be attending my grandson's wedding over next 5 days. = Lee name="Clear Day Bkgrd.JPG" 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 from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 08:46:33 2001 f8DDkWZ17087 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:46:33 - Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:46:34 PDT Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) Sounds like a very workable solution. Don't think thegoverment would have one iota of trouble allocatingthat kind of money for that purpose, right now and Idoubt that those in the know would be able to pass upthat kind of money to turn 'em in. Bill W.--- Tony Young wrote: I'm not religious, sometimes I wish I were but Ican't resolve the concepts, my wife and kids are however and I have noproblem with people following their own ideas as long as I'm allowed tofollow my own but correct me if I'm wrong here.Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was a Jew. What wouldthe Israelis do if somebody hijacked 4 planes and drove them intoplaces of significance to them? There is a huge difference between two people havinga personal disagreement with each other, one showing compassionto another who may have at the time be off his scone at the time and afew people killing thousands in a few moments after planing it for sometime.Until recently this simply wasn't possible, itwasn't even dreamt of. In fact until recently this was something only godswere thought to be capable of. I'm not joking when I say this. If 1 US $billion wasput on the head of the perpetrators dead or alive the problem would beresolved in a day or so. That wouldn't be the cost of a single day's groundcombat would it? and no other innocents need die. Tony __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Sep 13 08:58:06 2001 f8DDw6Z17787 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:58:06 - f8DDw1Y10304; Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Tony Young wrote: I'm not joking when I say this. If 1 US $billion was put on the head of the perpetrators dead or alive the problem would be resolved in a day or so. That wouldn't be the cost of a single day's ground combat would it? We ain't gonna contract this one out. We need that billion a daycirculating in this economy before the recession gets worse. and no other innocents need die. A very nieve statement. Even if made with the best of intentions. They don't _need_ to die but more innocents will die. You can't just wavea billion dollars in the air and expect every terrorist nut with a bomb todrop dead... If it were only so simple. Regards, Bob from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Sep 13 10:15:45 2001 f8DFFiZ21988 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:15:44 - Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) The only problem with this idea is they are like cockroaches, kill one and two appear in their place. These people will always be popping out of the woodwork. They have a different mind set than us. To them this is a Holy War that is being raged against the evil Western cultures. The only problem withthis idea is they are like cockroaches, kill one and of the them this is a Holy War that is being raged against the evil Westerncultures. from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 11:21:26 2001 f8DGLPZ27318 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:21:25 - 13 Sep 2001 08:50:33 PDT Subject: Escape from NY Finally found a rental car yesterday, waited in line almost 4 hoursto check it out and drove 9 hours to North Carolina. Avis stepped up and made cars available for one-way travel. Othercompanies sat on their fleets, contrary to the great insight fromkno-it-alls like Don Burns. I'll not be renting from Hetz from now on. __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 11:22:39 2001 f8DGMcZ27445 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:22:38 - 13 Sep 2001 08:46:41 PDT Subject: Re: Price gouging I must admit that I never expected such a dumbshit, smartass commentlike this here. I have enjoyed meeting every single person I have had the honor tomeet from this group, but I hope I never meet a smartass like "don"if this is his normal MO. Don, I hope you get stranded someday. --- Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/12/01 9:47:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gjm80301@yahoo.com writes: No gas reports, but Hertz wants $500 to rent a car to take out of the area. That will be discussed when this settles down. That's not out of the ordinary - drop off charges have been around Don B. __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Thu Sep 13 11:56:362001 f8DGuZZ29725 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:56:35 - helo=default) id 15hZVp-0000en-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:38:50 +0100 Subject: UK GATHERING NEW DATE Chaps, First off I hope that all of our friends in the USA know that they arein our thoughts. Words escape us in the UK but we know your nation has thegreat character to get through this. On a more mundane level I wish to notify those interested in the UKgathering that we have bumped the date back to October 26-28. If any ofyouwant to know more you can drop me a line or telephone on 01502 717256. Weexpect a full house so please contact either myself or Paul Blakeley quicklyif you wish to attend. Tight Lines, Sarah. from briansr@point-net.com Thu Sep 13 12:01:54 2001 f8DH1rZ00214 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:01:53 -0500 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:13:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Heroes (was Reed and Harry) LarryA lot of the ironworkers are Mohawk from here in Montreal .Flight out of Mtlstarted last night,however they were only humanitarian,medivac,and sometransAtlantic flights that were grounded here. Only passengers thatwereonboard on the 11th were allowed to board.security is incredible andeach A/C took 11/2 to 21/2 hrs to check each passenger individually .Thefirst out of Dorval was a 767 and I'll never look at that aircraft in thesame way again ! The only flight to the U.S. was an RCMP team that flew intoLaguardia on the 11th .Brian How about the Ironworkers - insisting that they be allowed in before theauthorities considered it safe for them to do so. If there is one city inthe world that can recover from a tragedy like this, I'm confident it is New York City. Larry Blan from Canerods@aol.com Thu Sep 13 14:55:36 2001 f8DJtZZ09487 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:55:35 - Subject: Re: Price gouging In a message dated 9/13/01 9:23:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gjm80301@yahoo.com writes: I must admit that I never expected such a dumbshit, smartass commentlike this here. I have enjoyed meeting every single person I have had the honor tomeet from this group, but I hope I never meet a smartass like "don"if this is his normal MO. Don, I hope you get stranded someday. I have been stranded many times in my travels. I can't tell you how many times I've paid drop off fees and bought $4.00 gas for not filling up the tank within the last 5 miles of my trip. I've paid $300 in drop off charges to return a car picked up in San Fran that I dropped in LA. Or had to stand in line for hours past my expected arrival time at a customer's location just to pick up the first available car after reserving a special large car for 5 people with luggage and having done so 6 weeks in advance. Getting a sub-compact that required two 200 mile trips to reachthe hotel so we all could be at the customers plant the next morning. OR had to drive across northern Michigan with no light or heater because my rental car's altenator packed it in somewhere between Saginaw and Evert, Mi- and while it was 2AM and -40deg's. I've also been charged $100's of dollars for extera fees for picking up cars at airports vs. off airport locations. I had several complete sets of luggage from Buddget rental cars and somany pens sets, alarm clocks and other crap from the 100's of rental cars that I've rented. How stating that rental car companies charge drop off fees is a dumbshit, smartass comment is behond me. Someone has to return that carto the proper location and car rental copmpanies have since the 1970's (when I first started to rent cars) have always charged me a drop off fee unless I asked (in advance) for a fleet car that I could rent. I've also flown on an AA DC-10 that had the engine nacelle buckle, but not fall off like it's sister ship the day before. And hadthe hatch blown open on a US AIR flight. Yes, I walked away from both with out a problem, but I've been there, done that. So I was stating a fact known from experience. Somehow, you feel that this is cruel? What? Am I in charge of the world now? Good, hang all the bastards. Don Burns In a message dated9/13/01 9:23:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gjm80301@yahoo.com writes: I must admit that I never expected such a dumbshit, smartasscommentlike this here. I have enjoyed meeting every single person I have had the honor tomeet from this group, but I hope I never meet a smartass like "don"if this is his normal MO. Don, I hope you get stranded someday. I have been stranded many times in my travels. I can't tell you howmany times I've paid drop off fees and bought $4.00 gas for not filling up thetank within the last 5 miles of my trip. I've paid $300 in drop off charges toreturn a car picked up in San Fran that I dropped in LA. Or had to stand in line for hours past my expected arrival time at acustomer's location just to pick up the first available car after reserving aspecial large car for 5 people with luggage and having done so 6 weeks inadvance. Getting a sub-compact that required two 200 mile trips to reachthe hotel so we all could be at the customers plant the next morning. OR had to drive across northern Michigan with no light or heaterbecause my rental car's altenator packed it in somewhere between Saginawand Evert, Mi - and while it was 2AM and -40deg's. I've also been charged $100's of dollars for extera fees for picking upcars at airports vs. off airport locations. I had several complete sets of luggage from Buddget rental cars and somany pens sets, alarm clocks and other crap from the 100's of rental carsthat I've rented. How stating that rental car companies charge drop off feesis a dumbshit, smartass comment is behond me. Someone has to return thatcar to the proper location and car rental copmpanies have since the 1970's(when I first started to rent cars) have always charged me a drop off feeunless I asked (in advance) for a fleet car that I could rent. I've also flown on an AA DC-10 that had the engine nacelle buckle, butnot fall off like it's sister ship the day before. And hadthe hatch blown openon a US AIR flight. Yes, I walked away from both with out a problem, but I'vebeen there, done that. So I was stating a fact known from experience. Somehow, you feel that this is cruel? What? Am I in charge of the worldnow? Good, hang all the bastards. Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Thu Sep 13 14:57:20 2001 f8DJvJZ09692 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:57:19 -0500 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:57:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/12/01 7:46:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: Guys! I am awestruck with the stories coming out of the disaster! I vividly remember hearing some guy who saved a person's life being called a hero. He said, in a thick brooklyn accent, "Ay,,I'm frum Noo Yark awright?" and he walked off! Then the guys who helped dig a cop out of the rubble, "Yeah, dis guy, 'e wuz stuk ,ya know? We helped ddig 'im out, no big deal!" I had always thought of New York as full of nasty, people and crime. I never thought of them like this!Maybe I will go there sometime! I never wanted to before!mark Now if we could only do something about the airhead TV reporters askingtheir typically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your loved one?" asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that teaches them howto be total dipshits. dgb In a message dated9/12/01 7:46:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: remember hearing some guy who saved a person's life being called a and he "Yeah, dis never thought of them like this! wanted to before!mark Now if we could only do something about the airhead TV reportersasking their typically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your lovedone?" asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that teaches themhow to be total dipshits. dgb from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Thu Sep 13 15:35:51 2001 f8DKZoZ12179 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:35:50 -0500 Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:35:52 +0200 Subject: Sv: Reed and Harry's Discussion Don Not only a class, but some sort of international agreement.Journalists are ALL like that regards, carsten jorgensen Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion Now if we could only do something about the airhead TV reporters =asking their typically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your =loved one?" asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that = Don Not only a class, but some sort of = agreement.Journalists are ALL like =that regards, carsten jorgensen ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, September 13, = PM Discussion Now if we could only do = airhead TV reporters asking their typically repugnant "how do you feel = the loss of your loved one?" asinine questions. There must be a = class that teaches them how to be total dipshits. from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 16:03:36 2001 f8DL3aZ13738 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:03:36 - 13 Sep 2001 14:02:59 PDT Subject: Re: Price gouging Thank you for confirming my assessment. In spades. --- Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/13/01 9:23:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gjm80301@yahoo.com writes: I must admit that I never expected such a dumbshit, smartass comment like this here. I have enjoyed meeting every single person I have had the honor to meet from this group, but I hope I never meet a smartass like "don" if this is his normal MO. Don, I hope you get stranded someday. I have been stranded many times in my travels. I can't tell you howmany times I've paid drop off fees and bought $4.00 gas for not fillingup the tank within the last 5 miles of my trip. I've paid $300 in drop offcharges to return a car picked up in San Fran that I dropped in LA. Or had to stand in line for hours past my expected arrival time at a customer's location just to pick up the first available car afterreserving a special large car for 5 people with luggage and having done so 6weeks in advance. Getting a sub-compact that required two 200 mile trips toreach the hotel so we all could be at the customers plant the next morning. OR had to drive across northern Michigan with no light or heaterbecause my rental car's altenator packed it in somewhere between Saginaw andEvert, Mi - and while it was 2AM and -40deg's. I've also been charged $100's of dollars for extera fees forpicking up cars at airports vs. off airport locations. I had several complete sets of luggage from Buddget rental cars andso many pens sets, alarm clocks and other crap from the 100's of rentalcars that I've rented. How stating that rental car companies charge drop offfees is a dumbshit, smartass comment is behond me. Someone has to return thatcar to the proper location and car rental copmpanies have since the 1970's(when I first started to rent cars) have always charged me a drop off feeunless I asked (in advance) for a fleet car that I could rent. I've also flown on an AA DC-10 that had the engine nacelle buckle,but not fall off like it's sister ship the day before. And hadthe hatchblown open on a US AIR flight. Yes, I walked away from both with out a problem,but I've been there, done that. So I was stating a fact known from experience. Somehow, you feel that this is cruel? What? Am I in charge of theworld now? Good, hang all the bastards. Don Burns __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Sep 13 17:30:31 2001 f8DMUUZ17728 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:30:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/13/01 2:58:39 PM Central Daylight Time,Canerods@aol.com writes: Ya Know. I heard Peter Jennings and one of the other reporters talking about this yesterday. They said that the ABC news crew got together severalyears ago and discussed just this question. they decided, and I quote P.J. "That is just a really stupid question to ask, How do you imagine that they will feel in a situation like this? So we don't ask that any more. It is AGAINST ABC news policy." Maybe you agree with him, or maybe not, but I have my admiration for him bumped up a bit for this. They have been doing a pretty fair job in myopinion. I would not hesitate to go fishing with Mr.Jennings. I would even loan him a fly rod!mark from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Sep 13 17:39:11 2001 f8DMdAZ18272 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:39:10 - f8DMcvd96325; Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so =long!) You know, Tony, there is one thing that has always bothered me; when =the mercenaries get rid of the bad guys, who gets rid of the =mercenaries? There is a process here in this sad business, a ritual of cleansing =and of justice, in which the wrong doers will not only be punished, but =will be seen to be punished; it is a grieving thing, and a victory =thing, and an honouring of the dead, and its functions cannot be usurped = To quote G.K.Chesterton " from all that terror teaches, from lies of tongue and pen, from all the easy speechesThat comfort cruel men, from sale and profanationOf honour and the sword, from sleep and from damnation,Deliver us, Good Lord!" Stay happy, stay healthy, stay alive, Peter From: "Tony Young" Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so =long!) concepts, my wife and kids are however and I have no problem with = following their own ideas as long as I'm allowed to follow my own = correct me if I'm wrong here.Jesus wasn't a Christian, he was a Jew. What would the Israelis do = somebody hijacked 4 planes and drove them into places of =significance to them? disagreement with each other, one showing compassion to another who = have at the time be off his scone at the time and a few people = thousands in a few moments after planing it for some time.Until recently this simply wasn't possible, it wasn't even dreamt = fact until recently this was something only gods were thought to be = of. I'm not joking when I say this. If 1 US $billion was put on the head = perpetrators dead or alive the problem would be resolved in a day or = That wouldn't be the cost of a single day's ground combat would it? = other innocents need die. ----- Original Message ----- Peter McKean Sent: Thursday, September 13, = PMSubject: Re: My thoughts = you're interested... (not so long!) You know, Tony, there is = gets rid of the mercenaries? There is a process here in this sad = ritual of cleansing and of justice, in which the wrong doers will not = punished, but will be seen to be punished; it is a grieving = usurped by the furtive assassin with the stealthy = To quoteG.K.Chesterton teaches, pen, speechesThat comfort cruel =men, from sale and =profanationOf honour and the =sword, damnation,Deliver us, Good =Lord!" alive, Peter ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 = PMSubject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if = interested... (not so long!) hijacked 4 planes and drove them into places of significance to = from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Sep 13 17:45:28 2001 f8DMjQZ18697 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:45:26 - Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) In a message dated 9/13/01 5:41:32 PM Central Daylight Time, petermckean@netspace.net.au writes: I have a thought here too, maybe irrelavent, but here it is. What should we do leave it to God? allow it to simply pass as if it never happened? i too am fearful of overreactions. but to simply ignore it is really not the reaction that shouldd happen. At least in myopinion.mark from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 13 19:16:19 2001 f8E0GIZ22054 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:16:18 - ;Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:16:16 +0000 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) The FBI website already shows a $5 billion reward for information towardapprehension or conviction of Asama Bin Laden. Quite a nice piece of changeif you could have him captured. Jack from beadman@mac.com Thu Sep 13 19:52:17 2001 f8E0qGZ23539 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:52:16 - ;Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:52:13 -0700 Subject: Fwd: What Landsat 7 saw in NYC yesterday Here's some pictures from space of Manhattan and the Pentagon. They take time to download, but the last two URLs have 1 meter resolution...Claude ...the USGS Landat7 web site http://landsat7.usgs.gov/browse/wtc.html - click on "New York City @ 30 M Resolution (1.4M)" to get the full image. MODIS and ISS pictures can be seen at: http://www.nasa.gov/newsinfo/WTCplume.html Ikonos images are at: http://www.spaceimaging.com/newsroom/attack_gallery.htm from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Sep 13 19:59:18 2001 f8E0xHZ23969 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:59:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion I didn't see it, but I heard that Jennings questioned whether our Presidenthad the the guts to lead due to his not coming directly back to D.C.immediately after the cowardly strike. If this is true, I'd take himfishing...and drown his ass.Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/13/01 2:58:39 PM Central Daylight Time, Canerods@aol.com writes: theirtypically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your loved one?"asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that teaches them how to be total dipshits. Ya Know. I heard Peter Jennings and one of the other reporters talking about this yesterday. They said that the ABC news crew got together several years ago and discussed just this question. they decided, and I quote P.J. "That is just a really stupid question to ask, How do you imagine that they willfeel in a situation like this? So we don't ask that any more. It is AGAINST ABC news policy." Maybe you agree with him, or maybe not, but I have myadmiration for him bumped up a bit for this. They have been doing a pretty fair job in myopinion. I would not hesitate to go fishing with Mr.Jennings. I would even loan him a fly rod!mark from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Sep 13 20:05:18 2001 f8E15HZ24369 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:05:17 - f8E15It03684 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:05:18 - Subject: Ed's Riddle's comment Ed, What do you mean? Clarify, please. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 20:10:46 2001 f8E1AjZ24811 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:10:45 -0500 13 Sep 2001 18:10:47 PDT Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu come on, boys, speaking as the low-breed that we allare (fisherman), we'd all go done with that one bigprize on the line. let's not banish the man to our ownbest wishes. [:-)] timothy --- Ed Riddle wrote: I didn't see it, but I heard that Jenningsquestioned whether our Presidenthad the the guts to lead due to his not comingdirectly back to D.C.immediately after the cowardly strike. If this istrue, I'd take himfishing...and drown his ass.Ed----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:30 PMSubject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/13/01 2:58:39 PM Central Daylight Time,Canerods@aol.com writes: airhead TV reporters asking theirtypically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your loved one?" asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that teaches them howto be total dipshits. Ya Know. I heard Peter Jennings and one of the other reporters talkingabout this yesterday. They said that the ABC news crew got together severalyears ago and discussed just this question. they decided, and I quote P.J."That is just a really stupid question to ask, How do you imagine that they will feel in a situation like this? So we don't ask that any more. It isAGAINST ABC news policy." Maybe you agree with him, or maybe not, but I have my admiration for him bumped up a bit for this. They have been doing apretty fair job in myopinion. I would not hesitate to go fishing withMr.Jennings. I would even loan him a fly rod!mark ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 20:11:59 2001 f8E1BwZ24888 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:11:58 - 13 Sep 2001 18:12:01 PDT Subject: Re: Ed's Riddle's comment clarify or clara-the-clown? --- Frank Olivieri wrote: Ed, What do you mean? Clarify, please. Thanks, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Sep 13 20:27:06 2001 f8E1R5Z25843 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:27:05 -0500 , Subject: Jennings In case I didn't make myself clear, I'm in full support of our President andthank God that we don't have to rely upon Jennings and his ilk for thefuture safety and security of this great country.God Bless America.Ed---- - Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion come on, boys, speaking as the low-breed that we allare (fisherman), we'd all go done with that one bigprize on the line. let's not banish the man to our ownbest wishes. [:-)] timothy --- Ed Riddle wrote: I didn't see it, but I heard that Jenningsquestioned whether our Presidenthad the the guts to lead due to his not comingdirectly back to D.C.immediately after the cowardly strike. If this istrue, I'd take himfishing...and drown his ass.Ed----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:30 PMSubject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/13/01 2:58:39 PM Central Daylight Time,Canerods@aol.com writes: airhead TV reporters asking theirtypically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your loved one?" asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that teaches them howto be total dipshits. Ya Know. I heard Peter Jennings and one of the other reporters talkingabout this yesterday. They said that the ABC news crew got together severalyears ago and discussed just this question. they decided, and I quote P.J."That is just a really stupid question to ask, How do you imagine that they will feel in a situation like this? So we don't ask that any more. It isAGAINST ABC news policy." Maybe you agree with him, or maybe not, but I have my admiration for him bumped up a bit for this. They have been doing apretty fair job in myopinion. I would not hesitate to go fishing withMr.Jennings. I would even loan him a fly rod!mark ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Thu Sep 13 20:32:52 2001 f8E1WqZ26264 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:32:52 - f8E1SKkE030190 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:28:20 -0500 Subject: My company's song Hello, I'm a beginning rodmaker and I'm gathering all the materials to =hopefully complete my first rod by next summer's fishing season. I know =we all come from different types of backgrounds and all have different =types of day jobs. For those that have an MP3 player I've included a =link that has some songs that my Department uses. They make me feel =much better in these trying times. Here is a website that has my employers songs. There is also a link to =get the lyrics. http://www.af.mil/accband/sounds/afsongs.html Maj Darrin Curtis Hello, I'm a beginning rodmaker = gathering all the materials to hopefully complete my first rod by next = = times. Here is a website that has myemployers = http://www.af.mil/=accband/sounds/afsongs.html Maj Darrin =Curtis from irish-george@chartermi.net Thu Sep 13 20:33:39 2001 f8E1XdZ26314 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:33:39 - Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) Move that decimal point over 3 places...it is $5M. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) The FBI website already shows a $5 billion reward for information towardapprehension or conviction of Asama Bin Laden. Quite a nice piece of change if you could have him captured. Jack from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Sep 13 20:37:55 2001 f8E1btZ26797 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:37:55 - Subject: Re: Ed's Riddle's comment Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/13/01 8:14:36 PM Central Daylight Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: wrote:Ed,What do you mean? Clarify, please. Actually that was "Clara-Belle" the clown. By the way, what FAMOUS actor played Clara-Belle (Clarabelle?) the clown on the Howdy Doody show? As a semi professional "clown" myself I know, do you?mark from dickay@alltel.net Thu Sep 13 20:54:02 2001 f8E1s1Z28027 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:54:01 - srv.alltel.net Subject: You Missed America I received this from a cousin of mine. I thought it was good Subject: You Missed America An open letter to a terrorist:Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. You hit thePentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless American bodies, totakeout other American bodies, but like a poor marksman, you STILL missedAmerica. Why? Because of something you guys will never understand. America isn'tabout a building or two, not about financial centers, not about militarycenters, America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch ofbodies. America is about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplace whereyou can earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most part,like you envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No guarantees that you'llreach it, but you can sure try!) Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist litany:"If you can not see my point, then feel my pain." This concept is alien toAmericans. We live in a country where we don't have to see your point. Butyou're free to have one. We don't have to listen to your speech. Butyou're free to speak one. Don't know where you got the strange idea thateveryone has to agree with you. We don't agree with each other in thiscountry, almost as a matter of pride. We're a collection of guys that don'tagree, called States. We united our individual states to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea, we made up on the spot. You CANmake it up as you go, when it's your country. If you're free enough. Yeah, we're fat, sloppy, easy-going goofs most of the time. That's anunfortunate image to project to the world, but it comes of feeling free andeasy about the world you live in. It's unfortunate too, because people startto forget that when you attack Americans, they tend to fight like a corneredbadger. The first we knew of the War of 1812, was when England burnedWashington D.C. to the ground. Didn't turn out like England thought it wasgoing to, and it's not going to turn out like you think, either. Sorry, butyou're not the first bully on our shores, just the most recent. No Marquis of Queensbury rules for Americans, either. We were the FIRSTandso far, only country in the world to use nuclear weapons in anger. Horrific anyway. Only had two of them in the whole world and we used 'em both.Grandpa Jones worked on the Manhattan Project. Told me once, that right upuntil they threw the switch, the physicists were still arguing over whetherthe Uranium alone would fission, or whether it would start afissioning chainreaction that would eat everything. But they threw the switch anyway,because we had a War to win. Does that tell you something about AmericanResolve? So who just declared War on us? It would be nice to point to some realestate, like the good old days. Unfortunately, we're probably at war withrandom camps, in far-flung places. Who think they're safe. Just like theBarbary Pirates did, IIRC. Better start sleeping with one eye open. There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this country,looking for opportunity, looking for liberty, looking for freedom. Even ifthey misuse it. The Marielistas that Castro emptied out of his prisons, wereoverjoyed to find out how much freedom there was. First thing they did whenthey hit our shores, was run out and buy guns. The ones that didn't end updead, ended up in prisons. It was a big PITA then (especially in southFlorida), but you're only the newest PITA, not the first. You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live inAmerica, America lives in US! American Spirit is what it's called. Andkilling a few thousand of us, or a few million of us, won't change it. Mostof the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we'recrossed in a cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind ofSpirit. Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time. Subject: YouMissed America An open letter to a terrorist:Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. You hit thePentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless American bodies, totakeout other American bodies, but like a poor marksman, you STILL missedAmerica. Why? Because of something you guys will never understand. America isn'tabout a building or two, not about financial centers, not about militarycenters, America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch ofbodies. America is about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplace whereyou can earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most part,like you envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No guarantees that you'llreach it, but you can sure try!) Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist litany:"If you can not see my point, then feel my pain." This concept is alien toAmericans. We live in a country where we don't have to see your point. Butyou're free to have one. We don't have to listen to your speech. Butyou're free to speak one. Don't know where you got the strange idea thateveryone has to agree with you. We don't agree with each other in thiscountry, almost as a matter of pride. We're a collection of guys that don'tagree, called States. We united our individual states to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea, we made up on the spot. You CANmake it up as you go, when it's your country. If you're free enough. Yeah, we're fat, sloppy, easy-going goofs most of the time. That's anunfortunate image to project to the world, but it comes of feeling free andeasy about the world you live in. It's unfortunate too, because people startto forget that when you attack Americans, they tend to fight like a corneredbadger. The first we knew of the War of 1812, was when England burnedWashington D.C. to the ground. Didn't turn out like England thought it wasgoing to, and it's not going to turn out like you think, either. Sorry, butyou're not the first bully on our shores, just the most recent. No Marquis of Queensbury rules for Americans, either. We were the FIRSTandso far, only country in the world to use nuclear weapons in anger. Horrific anyway. Only had two of them in the whole world and we used 'em both.Grandpa Jones worked on the Manhattan Project. Told me once, that right upuntil they threw the switch, the physicists were still arguing over whetherthe Uranium alone would fission, or whether it would start afissioning chainreaction that would eat everything. But they threw the switch anyway,because we had a War to win. Does that tell you something about AmericanResolve? So who just declared War on us? It would be nice to point to some realestate, like the good old days. Unfortunately, we're probably at war withrandom camps, in far-flung places. Who think they're safe. Just like theBarbary Pirates did, IIRC. Better start sleeping with one eye open. There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this country,looking for opportunity, looking for liberty, looking for freedom. Even ifthey misuse it. The Marielistas that Castro emptied out of his prisons, wereoverjoyed to find out how much freedom there was. First thing they did whenthey hit our shores, was run out and buy guns. The ones that didn't end updead, ended up in prisons. It was a big PITA then (especially in southFlorida), but you're only the newest PITA, not the first. You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live inAmerica, America lives in US! American Spirit is what it's called. Andkilling a few thousand of us, or a few million of us, won't change it. Mostof the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we'recrossed in a cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind ofSpirit. Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time. from jojo@ipa.net Thu Sep 13 21:00:33 2001 f8E20XZ28530 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:00:33 -0500 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:00:30 -0400 Subject: Saturation tests Guys, Earlier this year I was having a conversation with Tony Spezio about soakingstrips before working nodes, and straightening. I had stated that I soakedthe strips for one day, and Tony told me that he soaked his for three days,which I thought was overkill. Being generally open-minded I tried soaking worked.I haven't gone back to a shorter soak time since. I crank the heat gun upall the way, heat each node for approximately 45 seconds, and start movingthe node and/or straightening. Since doing this I have had very little nodereversal during heat treating, which may also have something to do with thedisplacing of nodes rather than compressing. Once, as a test, I pressed thenodes on a strip, then re-soaked the strip. The nodes swelled, but whendried out again there did not appear to be any movement from theirflattenedstate.Now, after Jerry Madigan posted his saturation testing the other day it gotme to thinking about adding surfactants to the water in order to obtain aquicker soak cycle. So, I conducted the following test. Before anyone getsexcited, the surfactant test was a failure, at least in terms of shorteningthe soak cycle and at this concentration level. I need to increase theconcentration and try again. Anyway, here is the raw test data: Initial Sample Weight Day 1 Pct. chg. Day 2 Pct. chg. Sample 1 4.7g 6.0g 27.66 6.2g31.91Sample 2 4.9g 6.2g 26.53 6.5g38.30 Day 3 Pct. chg. Day 4Pct. chg. Sample 1 6.3g 34.04 6.5g38.30Sample 2 6.6g 34.69 6.7g36.73 BTW, Sample 1 had the surfactant in the water. It appears to have gottenoffto a better initial start, and to have finished with a higher water weightgain, but in terms of shortening the soak cycle nothing was gained. Then I decided to see what the rate of evaporation was from the strips. Notethat the initial 2 hours had the same rate, and that the rate was constantover the remaining six hours. This would vary dependant upon therelative humidity. Initial Sample Weight 2 hr. Pct. chg. 4 hr. Pct. chg. Sample 1 6.5g 6.2g 4.62 5.7g 12.31 Sample 2 6.7g 6.4g 4.48 5.9g 11.94 6 hr. Pct. chg. 8 hr.Pct. chg. Sample 1 5.5g 15.38 5.3g18.46 Sample 2 5.7g 14.93 5.5g17.91 The surfactant sample, Sample 1, did seem to lose more water relative to itsweight than did Sample 2, but a percent and a half is hardly significant.I thought it interesting that the strips were still taking on water after 4days.Next test is to heat treat the strips, then re-soak them in an effort toascertain how much water they will absorb after heat treating. M-D from dickay@alltel.net Thu Sep 13 21:03:24 2001 f8E23NZ28800 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:03:23 -0500 srv.alltel.net Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:03:24 -0500 , Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion I'm with you Ed. I'll gladly hold your rod while you do the deed.Dick Fuhrman--- -- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion I didn't see it, but I heard that Jennings questioned whether our President had the the guts to lead due to his not coming directly back to D.C.immediately after the cowardly strike. If this is true, I'd take himfishing...and drown his ass.Ed----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:30 PMSubject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion In a message dated 9/13/01 2:58:39 PM Central Daylight Time, Canerods@aol.com writes: theirtypically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your loved one?"asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that teaches them how to be total dipshits. Ya Know. I heard Peter Jennings and one of the other reporters talking about this yesterday. They said that the ABC news crew got together several years ago and discussed just this question. they decided, and I quote P.J. "That is just a really stupid question to ask, How do you imagine that they will feel in a situation like this? So we don't ask that any more. It is AGAINST ABC news policy." Maybe you agree with him, or maybe not, but I have my admiration for him bumped up a bit for this. They have been doing a pretty fair job in myopinion. I would not hesitate to go fishing with Mr.Jennings. I would even loan him a fly rod!mark from captvonbek@earthlink.net Thu Sep 13 21:40:45 2001 f8E2eiZ00612 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:40:44 - TAA15076 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:40:41 - Subject: Comments about our President Are you some of you making negative comments about our president? Pleaseclarify. If you are then, let it be known. Such comments in this time of crisis arederived from the lowest common denominator and should not be expressedonthis list. This, of all times, is a time for solidarity, not civil war. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 21:55:33 2001 f8E2tXZ01431 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:55:33 - 13 Sep 2001 19:55:35 PDT Subject: Re: Comments about our President i haven't read any neg comments on the list about thepresident. in fact i haven't heard any neg comments from any source all week. timothy --- Frank Olivieri wrote: Are you some of you making negative comments aboutour president? Pleaseclarify. If you are then, let it be known. Such comments inthis time of crisis arederived from the lowest common denominator andshould not be expressed onthis list. This, of all times, is a time forsolidarity, not civil war. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?Donate cash, emergency relief informationhttp://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Thu Sep 13 22:22:16 2001 f8E3MFZ03500 for ; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:22:15 - Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:22:12 -0700 "Rodmakers List" Subject: Re: You Missed America FILETIME=[7201F390:01C13CCC] It sounds like a letter written from Batan. Its funny how in someway historyrepeats itself.MarkP.S. What I don't like to see on the site is so much malice toward eachother. Let kick ass but not each other.----- Original Message ----- Subject: You Missed America I received this from a cousin of mine. I thought it was good Subject: You Missed America An open letter to a terrorist:Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. You hit thePentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless American bodies, to take out other American bodies, but like a poor marksman, you STILL missedAmerica. Why? Because of something you guys will never understand. America isn'tabout a building or two, not about financial centers, not about militarycenters, America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch ofbodies. America is about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplacewhereyou can earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most part,like you envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No guarantees that you'll reach it, but you can sure try!) Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist litany:"If you can not see my point, then feel my pain." This concept is alien toAmericans. We live in a country where we don't have to see your point. Butyou're free to have one. We don't have to listen to your speech. Butyou're free to speak one. Don't know where you got the strange idea thateveryone has to agree with you. We don't agree with each other in thiscountry, almost as a matter of pride. We're a collection of guys that don't agree, called States. We united our individual states to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea, we made up on the spot. You CANmake it up as you go, when it's your country. If you're free enough. Yeah, we're fat, sloppy, easy-going goofs most of the time. That's anunfortunate image to project to the world, but it comes of feeling free and easy about the world you live in. It's unfortunate too, because people start to forget that when you attack Americans, they tend to fight like a cornered badger. The first we knew of the War of 1812, was when England burnedWashington D.C. to the ground. Didn't turn out like England thought it wasgoing to, and it's not going to turn out like you think, either. Sorry, but you're not the first bully on our shores, just the most recent. No Marquis of Queensbury rules for Americans, either. We were the FIRST and so far, only country in the world to use nuclear weapons in anger. Horrific anyway. Only had two of them in the whole world and we used 'em both.Grandpa Jones worked on the Manhattan Project. Told me once, that rightupuntil they threw the switch, the physicists were still arguing over whether the Uranium alone would fission, or whether it would start afissioning chain reaction that would eat everything. But they threw the switch anyway,because we had a War to win. Does that tell you something about AmericanResolve? So who just declared War on us? It would be nice to point to some realestate, like the good old days. Unfortunately, we're probably at war withrandom camps, in far-flung places. Who think they're safe. Just like theBarbary Pirates did, IIRC. Better start sleeping with one eye open. There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this country,looking for opportunity, looking for liberty, looking for freedom. Even ifthey misuse it. The Marielistas that Castro emptied out of his prisons, were overjoyed to find out how much freedom there was. First thing they did when they hit our shores, was run out and buy guns. The ones that didn't end updead, ended up in prisons. It was a big PITA then (especially in southFlorida), but you're only the newest PITA, not the first. You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live inAmerica, America lives in US! American Spirit is what it's called. Andkilling a few thousand of us, or a few million of us, won't change it. Most of the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we'recrossed in a cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit. Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time. Subject: YouMissed America An open letter to a terrorist:Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. You hit thePentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless American bodies, to take out other American bodies, but like a poor marksman, you STILL missedAmerica. Why? Because of something you guys will never understand. America isn'tabout a building or two, not about financial centers, not about militarycenters, America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch ofbodies. America is about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplacewhereyou can earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most part,like you envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No guarantees that you'll reach it, but you can sure try!) Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist litany:"If you can not see my point, then feel my pain." This concept is alien toAmericans. We live in a country where we don't have to see your point. Butyou're free to have one. We don't have to listen to your speech. Butyou're free to speak one. Don't know where you got the strange idea thateveryone has to agree with you. We don't agree with each other in thiscountry, almost as a matter of pride. We're a collection of guys that don't agree, called States. We united our individual states to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea, we made up on the spot. You CANmake it up as you go, when it's your country. If you're free enough. Yeah, we're fat, sloppy, easy-going goofs most of the time. That's anunfortunate image to project to the world, but it comes of feeling free and easy about the world you live in. It's unfortunate too, because people start to forget that when you attack Americans, they tend to fight like a cornered badger. The first we knew of the War of 1812, was when England burnedWashington D.C. to the ground. Didn't turn out like England thought it wasgoing to, and it's not going to turn out like you think, either. Sorry, but you're not the first bully on our shores, just the most recent. No Marquis of Queensbury rules for Americans, either. We were the FIRST and so far, only country in the world to use nuclear weapons in anger. Horrific anyway. Only had two of them in the whole world and we used 'em both.Grandpa Jones worked on the Manhattan Project. Told me once, that rightupuntil they threw the switch, the physicists were still arguing over whether the Uranium alone would fission, or whether it would start afissioning chain reaction that would eat everything. But they threw the switch anyway,because we had a War to win. Does that tell you something about American Resolve? So who just declared War on us? It would be nice to point to some realestate, like the good old days. Unfortunately, we're probably at war withrandom camps, in far-flung places. Who think they're safe. Just like theBarbary Pirates did, IIRC. Better start sleeping with one eye open. There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this country,looking for opportunity, looking for liberty, looking for freedom. Even ifthey misuse it. The Marielistas that Castro emptied out of his prisons, were overjoyed to find out how much freedom there was. First thing they did when they hit our shores, was run out and buy guns. The ones that didn't end updead, ended up in prisons. It was a big PITA then (especially in southFlorida), but you're only the newest PITA, not the first. You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live inAmerica, America lives in US! American Spirit is what it's called. Andkilling a few thousand of us, or a few million of us, won't change it. Most of the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we'recrossed in a cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit. Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Sep 14 00:34:20 2001 f8E5YJZ06843 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:34:19 -0500 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:34:16 -0400 Subject: Prayer Today has been designated as a day of prayer, and remembrance for thosewhodied in Tuesday's atrocities. Others have suggested that it is Color Day,where everyone should wear red, white, and blue.It has also been suggested that it is Flag Day, where everyone should flythe flag.The two latter pale in comparison to the former.If we are to pray it must be a prayer of contrition, a prayer of repentance,and a prayer for mercy. We must seek to turn from those ways, and toceaseto support those who are, in opposition to our Father. Certainly we shouldpray for healing, for comfort, for strength, and for encouragement of thosewho have lost so much in the horror of September, 11; to pray for those whohave risen above the call of duty to perform their ongoing tasks, to pray unfound.We must ask ourselves hard questions, and search for our own culpability inthe events of Tuesday. We are not without blemish, and not without fault.We must go forward in Faith, secure in the knowledge that whatever is tocome, He is in control, despite appearances to the contrary.We must seek Him -- in all things. M-D from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 14 01:15:27 2001 f8E6FQZ07942 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:15:26 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Comments about our President Frank,I can't speak for others, only for myself, but I support "W" and anydecisions he makes in this time of crisis. Maybe it's because I'm an oldmilitary dog, or maybe it's because I think it's a time for us, as Americancitizens to stand together... not really sure, but one thing I am sure of isthat George W. Bush, regardless of peoples personal feelings about him, isdoing is best to bring justice from this situation, and the VERY least hedeserves is our undying support. BobUSAF RetiredCommitted, for life, to supporting the Commander in Chief, and damn proudofit!!! Are you some of you making negative comments about our president?Pleaseclarify. If you are then, let it be known. Such comments in this time of crisis arederived from the lowest common denominator and should not be expressedonthis list. This, of all times, is a time for solidarity, not civil war. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Sep 14 02:47:19 2001 f8E7lIZ09349 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 02:47:18 -0500 Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:47:12 -0700 Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:47:12 GMT Subject: Another Day FILETIME=[774A7DC0:01C13CF1] I will confess to having deleted all references to the despicable act of the 11th until tonight. Did not want anything to intrude on my thinking through what happened. There was also some serious prayer to help with that. The group has not let me down when I decided to rejoin the outer world, mostly incisive comment and literate defense of each position. The first conclusion I arrived at was joyous wonder that despite the best efforts of a brutal maniac who has misinterpreted his Koran the US bent like a tree in a hurricane but did not break. Accounts of extraordinary heroism from the common citizen abounded in all areas where it was asked of him.The vast majority are certainly unheralded, if the dopey TV victim abusers could find them they had to be everywhere. We had no civil unrest, no madding hords attacking the local mosque, no decapitation of the government, just a ready will to attack the problem on whatever level each individual persons skills could offer(as a rodbuilder I admit to feeling a bit superfluous). Doctors by the hundred arrive in minutes, steelworkers and rescue workers , together, trying to work out the problem, and long before it was anywhere near safe to go to work. The US is an amazing country, we may bicker like family members at a hot August reunion but when the chips are down we all pull together like the well oiled machine that that has typified what is the best of America. This was a grievious error in jugment by the fanatics who started this deadly game, unlike the Germans capitulating to the Baader-Meinhoff gang or the Italians folding up for the Red Brigade, the US will quietly, with carefull calculation, force of will and with as much precision as they will allow us, rid the world of this menace. Not for all time, but we will remember and stand ready to beat back the the next tyrant, and the nextand the next. No they won't go away but then neither will we. I would have liked a President that had a better gift for oratory. It would have been nice to hear from A Reagan, a Churchill, a Roosevelt or a Thatcher, but I will happily settle for quiet competence with the firm knowlege that he won't bomb an aspirin factory because he was caught with his drawers around his ankles. My flag hangs proudly in front of the house, not because I agree with all that goes on, indeed I am famous for my prediliction to argue about anything political, but where else would I be secure in my person and property while doing it? In the immortal words of the Black Avenger "Pick a better country!"A.J.Thramer _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Sep 14 02:50:20 2001 f8E7oIZ09536 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 02:50:18 -0500 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) $5M isn't that much money. They prob make something like that every month just in transporting opium across into Pakistan. Yet another problem to be resolved. Move that decimal point over 3 places...it is $5M. ----- Original Message -----From: "Jacques Follweiler" Cc: ; "rod" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:16 PMSubject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) The FBI website already shows a $5 billion reward for information towardapprehension or conviction of Asama Bin Laden. Quite a nice piece of change if you could have him captured. Jack from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Sep 14 03:19:41 2001 f8E8JdZ10215 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 03:19:39 -0500 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) I'm not joking when I say this. If 1 US $billion was put on the head of the perpetrators dead or alive the problem would be resolved in a day or so.That wouldn't be the cost of a single day's ground combat would it? We ain't gonna contract this one out. We need that billion a daycirculating in this economy before the recession gets worse. and no other innocents need die. A very nieve statement. Even if made with the best of intentions. I didn't see the need to mention the statement I made was related to this act, not for all time, it seemed obvious. They don't _need_ to die but more innocents will die. You can't just wavea billion dollars in the air and expect every terrorist nut with a bomb todrop dead... If it were only so simple. People DO NEED TO DIE for terrorism to work. They use terror as their weapon. That's the reason they're called terrorists.Entire populations or religious groups aren't normally terrorists. Terrorists and rebels depend on popular support. They have popular support where the lives of people living in countries being run by mad men are worse than the death they expect to have. The longer this continues the worse it becomes.These groups know using conventional military means of fighting back only impoverishes the lives of innocents which re-enforces the cycle. They depend on this.Removing the cause which is normally only a few individual thugs and making certain the population at large see what it's like to live what most would consider a normal life makes it much harder for outlaw groups to have popular support.This isn't easy but nor is the problem. Soloman Rushde has to date survived the $million (which I think has been withdrawn) because he lives in the UK where while there are plenty of Moslems living there who were pretty angry life in the UK is good enough that there aren't enough fundamentalists prepared to kill him over a book.The bounty did work though from Iran's point of view because nobody saw Soloman Rushde for 5 years, nobody was game to print anything againstIslam and the money was never paid. The only people he really had to worry about were individual crazies of the kind that shoot pop stars like John Lennon or a hit team which was never likely. from Lazybee45@aol.com Fri Sep 14 04:58:31 2001 f8E9wVZ11787 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 04:58:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments about our President Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/13/01 9:56:22 PM Central Daylight Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: Niether have I. My Wife, as ardent a CLinton supporter as ever lived, said, "This guy actually impressed me." about W. Cynic that I am, (and a bitter one!) I support the guy myself and pray that he has the advisors that he needs to deal withthis! As a creative effort, some guys at work were thinking of what to do with the people who perpetrated this act. The most creative (among a bunch of truck drivers) was to let him/them go somewhere in the middle of the country witha cameraman following the moves. Advertising that the location was within a small area, say 20 miles. Talk about reality TV! mark from Lazybee45@aol.com Fri Sep 14 05:08:26 2001 f8EA8PZ12068 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:08:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments about our President Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 9/14/01 1:15:54 AM Central Daylight Time,caneman@clnk.com writes: AMEN! It is time to hang together, or surely we will all hang seperately!seriously, yes. I have my disagreements with various politicians, but at themoment, we are not Republicans, or Democrats, conservative or liberal. We are all together and working to heal. THAT is why we are the UNITED states.mark from splitcane@t-online.de Fri Sep 14 05:08:54 2001 f8EA8rZ12169 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:08:54 -0500 id 15hpto-00008N-03; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:08:40 +0200 fwd01.sul.t-online.com Organization: . fbcwin@3g.quik.com,rod Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) Hi there,if you please have look at the fbi homepage. As I recall there is a reward of5.000.000 $ for bin laden and he still has shelter some where. The same withwarcriminals in Kosowo/Serbia. As long these most wanted guys pay more (andnot onlyin cash but in propaganda) they'll survive unless you extract them and bringthemto justice(Den Haag) as some of my former comrads already do in formerYugoslaviaand as you can read they are quite good at the job [:)] I'ld say (for my self) no need to bring them to court.Michael rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us schrieb: On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Tony Young wrote: I'm not joking when I say this. If 1 US $billion was put on the head of theperpetrators dead or alive the problem would be resolved in a day or so.That wouldn't be the cost of a single day's ground combat would it? We ain't gonna contract this one out. We need that billion a daycirculating in this economy before the recession gets worse. and no other innocents need die. A very nieve statement. Even if made with the best of intentions. They don't _need_ to die but more innocents will die. You can't just wavea billion dollars in the air and expect every terrorist nut with a bomb todrop dead... If it were only so simple. Regards, Bob from harms1@pa.net Fri Sep 14 06:49:22 2001 f8EBnLZ13519 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:49:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Saturation tests This certainly seems like a worthwhile experiment. It will be very helpfulto know what the useful parameters are for "wet-straightening." As you follow up with this experiment, could you explain to those of us whoare "chemically-challanged," what is meant by a "surfactant? " Do I takethat to mean some kind of soap or detergent, and if so, might the residue ofthat (tremaining within the fibre structure) degrade the bondingcharacteristics of glue? Most builders go to the heat treatment stage after straightening and initialplaning, but for those of us who do not, it would be helpful to know howmuch drying time should be allowed before safely planing a strip down to itsfinal dimensions. Thanks again for undertaking this little study. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Saturation tests Guys, Earlier this year I was having a conversation with Tony Spezio about soaking strips before working nodes, and straightening. I had stated that I soakedthe strips for one day, and Tony told me that he soaked his for three days, which I thought was overkill. Being generally open-minded I tried soaking worked. I haven't gone back to a shorter soak time since. I crank the heat gun upall the way, heat each node for approximately 45 seconds, and startmovingthe node and/or straightening. Since doing this I have had very little node reversal during heat treating, which may also have something to do with the displacing of nodes rather than compressing. Once, as a test, I pressed the nodes on a strip, then re-soaked the strip. The nodes swelled, but whendried out again there did not appear to be any movement from their flattened state.Now, after Jerry Madigan posted his saturation testing the other day it got me to thinking about adding surfactants to the water in order to obtain aquicker soak cycle. So, I conducted the following test. Before anyone getsexcited, the surfactant test was a failure, at least in terms of shortening the soak cycle and at this concentration level. I need to increase theconcentration and try again. Anyway, here is the raw test data: Initial Sample Weight Day 1 Pct. chg. Day 2 Pct. chg. Sample 1 4.7g 6.0g 27.66 6.2g31.91Sample 2 4.9g 6.2g 26.53 6.5g38.30 Day 3 Pct. chg. Day 4Pct. chg. Sample 1 6.3g 34.04 6.5g38.30Sample 2 6.6g 34.69 6.7g36.73 BTW, Sample 1 had the surfactant in the water. It appears to have gotten off to a better initial start, and to have finished with a higher water weightgain, but in terms of shortening the soak cycle nothing was gained. Then I decided to see what the rate of evaporation was from the strips. Note that the initial 2 hours had the same rate, and that the rate was constantover the remaining six hours. This would vary dependant upon therelative humidity. Initial Sample Weight 2 hr. Pct. chg. 4 hr. Pct. chg. Sample 1 6.5g 6.2g 4.62 5.7g 12.31 Sample 2 6.7g 6.4g 4.48 5.9g 11.94 6 hr. Pct. chg. 8 hr.Pct. chg. Sample 1 5.5g 15.38 5.3g18.46 Sample 2 5.7g 14.93 5.5g17.91 The surfactant sample, Sample 1, did seem to lose more water relative to its weight than did Sample 2, but a percent and a half is hardly significant.I thought it interesting that the strips were still taking on water after 4 days.Next test is to heat treat the strips, then re-soak them in an effort toascertain how much water they will absorb after heat treating. M-D from BarbRain@aol.com Fri Sep 14 07:15:33 2001 f8ECFWZ14181 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:15:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Jennings Canerods@aol.com, rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Semper Fi, Ed. Overall Jennings is not one to stick to the facts. Semper Fi, Ed. facts. from aldupon@sympatico.ca Fri Sep 14 07:29:05 2001 f8ECT4Z14763 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:29:04 -0500 VL-MS-MR002.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:29:03 -0400 ns2U0e0btwUq5f Subject: Re: Comments about our President Hi, Is there a list administrator ? I have to delete 95 % of all messages received which are not of any concern about RodMakers, Rods, Bamboo; Planes, Scrapers etc... Because I don't see the lead about "Rodmakers" Is it possible to exchange these messages elsewhere. Alain. from rkrees@mcn.net Fri Sep 14 07:55:26 2001 f8ECtOZ15738 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:55:25 -0500 FAA11121; Subject: Re: Comments about our President aOBoy I for on am very sorry that your finger may get a little sore fromdeleting these messages ofcompassion for human kind. You might try putting a very little pillow on theadjustment knob ofyour plain to hold your poor little finger and to prevent further injury. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Sep 14 08:30:58 2001 f8EDUwZ17003 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:30:58 - Subject: when to heat treat Milward (p. 123) seems to advocate doing the heat treating AFTERthe final planing. Does anyone actually heat treat that latein the process? I would seem tricky to heat treat a tip sectionto the same degree as the butt section. But maybe I'm misreadingMilward by assuming he is describing the steps in order.========================================================================Frank Stetzer, Ph.D. stetzer@uwm.eduResearch Support P.O. Box 413Information and Media Technologies Milwaukee, WI 53201University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee (414)-229-4571 from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Sep 14 08:58:36 2001 f8EDwZZ18453 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:58:35 - Subject: Re: when to heat treat Hi Frank,The first three rods I made where heat treated with .015 overfinish size. The rods fish well but have a distinct color change from butt to tip. My first multi piece rod which was completedhad a significant color change. George Aldrich said it lookedlike a red head that was sun bleached blonde. http://lblove.users.omniglobal.net/firstrod.html is a picture with thecolor change in it. You can also see the art deco wrap that is covering up a groove I put in the cane polishing the handle...The blank stated to whip in the throat of the lathe and I did nothave a step down plug or my out rigger support in place. Itwas just going to take a second or two, famous last words. laterBrad http://lblove.users.omniglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: when to heat treat Milward (p. 123) seems to advocate doing the heat treating AFTERthe final planing. Does anyone actually heat treat that latein the process? I would seem tricky to heat treat a tip sectionto the same degree as the butt section. But maybe I'm misreadingMilward by assuming he is describing the steps in order. ========================================================================Frank Stetzer, Ph.D. stetzer@uwm.eduResearch Support P.O. Box 413Information and Media Technologies Milwaukee, WI 53201University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee (414)-229-4571 from parataper@hotmail.com Fri Sep 14 09:39:22 2001 f8EEdLZ20348 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:39:21 -0500 Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:39:11 -0700 HTTP; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:39:10 GMT Subject: Re: Comments about our President FILETIME=[046BDB70:01C13D2B] members subscribing, but only a dozen or so who constantly take up Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Fri Sep 14 10:02:17 2001 f8EF2GZ22678 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:02:16 -0500 f8EEvikE010418 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:57:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments about our President Alain, this list is about Rodmakers, this includes rodmaking, rods, bamboo,planes and scrapers. However this is about RODMAKERS, which includesthemselves and their families. We are here to listen and feel their painand excitement about rodmaking and anything else someone needs to get offoftheir chest. This is a family of sorts. Alain, if you don't like how theRodmakers list server works, please remove yourself from it. I for onethink of most of the folks on here as part of my rodmaking family and I'mhere to listen and provide comfort, assistance or what ever else I can forthe folks on here. Darrin Curtis ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Comments about our President Hi, Is there a list administrator ? I have to delete 95 % of all messages received which are not of any concern about RodMakers, Rods, Bamboo; Planes, Scrapers etc... Because I don't see the lead about "Rodmakers" Is it possible to exchange these messages elsewhere. Alain. from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Sep 14 10:21:47 2001 f8EFLkZ24772 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:21:46 - Subject: Re: when to heat treat I heat treat before finish planing. I found by experimenting with shortsections in my kitchen oven that the bamboo shrinks when heated. Theshrinkage seems to be proportional to cross section, ie., tips shrink lessthan butts. If you are concerned about the finish sizes being acccurate, itis necessary to be able to predict how much shrinkage will occur. Planingafter heat treating assures that you will be on design. from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Sep 14 10:22:22 2001 f8EFMLZ24897 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:22:21 -0500 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:22:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Day Being a American born of German and Italian decent, I remember hearing =stories ofmy grandmother and father who escaped Germany during WW2.An American G.I. married my grandmother and adopted my father.His real father was a German pilot who died in the war.My father and Grandmother gained American citizenship and my father = My Italian side of the family has a long history of serving in the =military andveterans of several wars. My uncle of Italian decent is the XO of a =naval salvage ship(Vietnam Vet) and my cousin Mike is a seal in the U.S. =Navy(Gulf War Vet)And I proudly served as an Hull Tech Petty Officer 2nd class in the U.S. =Navy.I sat off the Persian gulf during some pretty trying times.Not Too bad for a bunch of German and Italian Americans.I certainly understand who you were trying to reference too (the Nazis =and Fascist)of WW2. But PLEASE let us all be careful not to link these terrorist =with any ethnicgroups. And that also applies to Muslim and Arab Americans .I stated this in one of the first posts I made on the subject ,but as = I know your intentions were good ,but please, every one, in this trying =timelets choose are words carefully as not to offend. BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} = stories ofmy grandmother and father who escaped Germany during WW2.An American G.I. married my grandmother and adopted my =father.His real father was a German pilot who died in the war.My father and Grandmother gained American citizenship and my father= the U.S. airforce. My Italian side of the family has a long history of serving in the = and Navy(Gulf War Vet) I sat off the Persian gulf during some pretty trying times.Not Too bad for a bunch of German and Italian Americans. and Fascist) with any ethnicgroups. And that also applies to Muslim and Arab = trying timelets choose are words carefully as not to offend. from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Fri Sep 14 10:36:24 2001 f8EFaNZ26419 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:36:23 - id ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:32:41 -0400 stetzer@csd.uwm.edu,RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: when to heat treat Ted & all, Do you flame sections, as well as heat-treat them? (Just send me to thearchives, if I am bringing up old business). from oborge@mwt.net Fri Sep 14 10:49:13 2001 f8EFnCZ27637 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:49:12 -0500 f8EFWXJ06460; Subject: RE: Comments about our President f8EFnCZ27638 This cut and paste is from the email everyone gets when they subscribe torod makers "This is a good-natured list. Strong language, spam, and flaming are not welcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from the list without warning. Try to keep your posts relevant to the subject of rodmaking. We allwander from time to time, please keep it to a minimum." Olaf BorgeSilk fly lines bought and soldVisa/MasterCard acceptedURL: www.silkflylines.comMail: P.O. Box 361 Viroqua, Wisconsin 54665Email: oborge@mwt.netPhone: 608-675-3509 Fax: 608-675-3681 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Comments about our President Boy I for on am very sorry that your finger may get a little sore fromdeleting these messages ofcompassion for human kind. You might try putting a very little pillow on theadjustment knob ofyour plain to hold your poor little finger and to prevent further injury. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 14 10:54:54 2001 f8EFsrZ27960 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:54:53 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:20:32 -0500 Subject: Re: when to heat treat Before procuring the Bellinger rough beveller I use, I planed down to about.020 over final dimensions and heat treated. Now I rough mill so that the"big end" of the strips is about .020 over and heat treat the straightmilled strips, then proceed to final planing from there. Honestly it seemsto make no difference at all, so far as "feel" of the final rod, changing from oversized planed tapered strips to heat treating the straight strips.I do agree with Ted. There is probably going to be some shrinkingduring heat treating, so I personally would not even consider heat treatingafter final planing. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: when to heat treat I heat treat before finish planing. I found by experimenting with shortsections in my kitchen oven that the bamboo shrinks when heated. Theshrinkage seems to be proportional to cross section, ie., tips shrink lessthan butts. If you are concerned about the finish sizes being acccurate, it is necessary to be able to predict how much shrinkage will occur. Planingafter heat treating assures that you will be on design. from patrick.w.coffey@Boeing.com Fri Sep 14 11:05:02 2001 f8EG52Z28609 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:05:02 -0500 JAA22832; JAA03461; f8EG4mV11713; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:04:48 -0700 "'stetzer@csd.uwm.edu'" Subject: RE: when to heat treat Bob doesn't heat treat as high as the rest of us. He doesn't discolor thebamboo, he just drives out all the moisture. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 ---------- Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 6:30 AM Subject: when to heat treat Milward (p. 123) seems to advocate doing the heat treating AFTERthe final planing. Does anyone actually heat treat that latein the process? I would seem tricky to heat treat a tip sectionto the same degree as the butt section. But maybe I'm misreadingMilward by assuming he is describing the steps in order. ========================================================================Frank Stetzer, Ph.D. stetzer@uwm.eduResearch Support P.O. Box 413Information and Media Technologies Milwaukee, WI 53201University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee (414)-229-4571 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Sep 14 11:05:13 2001 f8EG5BZ28629 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:05:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments about our President I guess you're right but until a few days back the only rodmaking posts went along the lines of "Test", "Is the list really this slow?" and "is there anybody out there?"I didn't think there was anybody out there who'd care. At 08:28 AM 9/14/01 -0400, Alain wrote: Hi, Is there a list administrator ? I have to delete 95 % of all messages received which are not of any concern about RodMakers, Rods, Bamboo; Planes, Scrapers etc... Because I don't see the lead about "Rodmakers" Is it possible to exchange these messages elsewhere. Alain. from harms1@pa.net Fri Sep 14 11:13:02 2001 f8EGD1Z29010 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:13:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments about our President All, Certainly these times are exceptional in the extreme. I don't see what theharm is in allowing members of this list the opportunity to express emotionsand views at such a time in our nation's history--even if those views DON'Thave anything directly to do with building fly rods. Many of us are personal friends, but even if not, most of us have come tocare a great deal about one another. And even if our political or religiousviews should differ, I believe this is the time, if ever there WAS one, whenwe should be happy to know that we are a community that can enjoy freedomofspeech and liberty. We shall all return to discussing and building fly rods soon enough.There's no need to fear that. In the meantime, however, the list can easilyaccomodate discussions of all sorts without the need for concern. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Comments about our President Alain, this list is about Rodmakers, this includes rodmaking, rods, bamboo, planes and scrapers. However this is about RODMAKERS, which includesthemselves and their families. We are here to listen and feel their painand excitement about rodmaking and anything else someone needs to getoff of their chest. This is a family of sorts. Alain, if you don't like how theRodmakers list server works, please remove yourself from it. I for onethink of most of the folks on here as part of my rodmaking family and I'mhere to listen and provide comfort, assistance or what ever else I can forthe folks on here. Darrin Curtis ----- Original Message -----From: "Alain" Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:28 AMSubject: Re: Comments about our President Hi, Is there a list administrator ? I have to delete 95 % of all messages received which are not of any concern about RodMakers, Rods, Bamboo; Planes, Scrapers etc... Because I don't see the lead about "Rodmakers" Is it possible to exchange these messages elsewhere. Alain. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 14 12:29:58 2001 f8EHTvZ01039 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:29:57 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:55:37 -0500 Subject: Re: when to heat treat Before procuring the Bellinger rough beveller I use, I planed down to about.020 over final dimensions and heat treated. Now I rough mill so that the"big end" of the strips is about .020 over and heat treat the straightmilled strips, then proceed to final planing from there. Honestly it seemsto make no difference at all, so far as "feel" of the final rod, changing from oversized planed tapered strips to heat treating the straight strips.I do agree with Ted. There is probably going to be some shrinkingduring heat treating, so I personally would not even consider heat treatingafter final planing. Later,Bob ----- Original Message -----From: "Ted" Subject: Re: when to heat treat I heat treat before finish planing. I found by experimenting with shortsections in my kitchen oven that the bamboo shrinks when heated. Theshrinkage seems to be proportional to cross section, ie., tips shrinklessthan butts. If you are concerned about the finish sizes being acccurate,itis necessary to be able to predict how much shrinkage will occur.Planingafter heat treating assures that you will be on design. from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 14 12:37:58 2001 f8EHbwZ01164 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:37:58 -0500 Subject: A couple of tips for the tip page Well, I just finished my Sir D. I did a spiral flame on the culm with a torchthat had a fan shaped output and turned it sideways to get the narrowestflame. I wrapped it with gold and black trimmed in black with gossamerthread. I did a rattan cigar handle flamed to match the rod. I used adownlocking reelseat with a Plexiglas impregnated and stained fiddlebackmaple insert. The downlocking action is actually two slip rings with thebottom ring captured between the insert and butt cap. I was reminded of the "Tips" webpage but I forget where it is so I thought Iwould list the ones I used here. Maybe the owner of the Tips page will listthem. The first is a help when you get the male part of the ferrule to small. It's been previously listed but possibly not in the tips page. 1)If you get your male ferrule a little to small and haven't mounted it yet onthe rod, here's what you can do. Fill the ferrule approximately 3/4 full offine sand. You can purchase a small bag of very fine sand at your localaquarium supply. It is used in reptile tanks. Now take a piece of round stock(steel dowel, piece of music wire etc.) a couple of inches long and justsmaller than the inside diameter of the ferrule. Place the ferrule on a stablesurface; a piece of hardwood placed on an anvil would be ideal. Now place theround stock into the ferrule and strike with a hammer. Tap rather thanhitting normally. The sand will disperse the energy of the blow causing theferrule to swell. Many taps are better than one blow. Hitting to hard candeform the ferrule. Salt or any similar material found in the kitchen will alsowork but is usually more difficult to remove from the inside of the ferrule. Usually just picking at the sand with a needle or small awl after yo!!!u have finished is all that is necessary to get the sand out of the ferrule. 2)If you have already mounted the ferrule, here is a method that I use. Acouple of years ago, I experimented with building fittings from brass andelectroplating them with nickel. The nickel electroplating solution is nickelsulphate, nickel chloride and boric acid. The chemicals can be boughtseparately or a plating bought from Caswell(http://www.caswellplating.com/) or other plating supply. Get a short pieceof wire wrap wire from radio shack or other electronic supply, remove 3 or 4inches of the outside insulation and wrap two or three turns around theferrule just below the wrap. Twist the wire until the wire is snug around theferrule. Connect to the negative lead of the plating supply and place it in theplating solution and start plating. Rotate the ferrule frequently and checkfrequently for proper fit to the female ferrule. Here is a good description of the process for home type plating. http://www.concentric.net/~stwradio/nickel.htm This is the completeprocess and is more controlled than I use. I have a pint of the solution Imixed up 3 or 4 years ago; don't remember the percent of each chemical (itis the mixture found in literature as the "wood's strike"). I do not worryabout the temperature or voltage except to use a 1.5 V drycell. You willhave the best results however by following the author's suggestions. 3)There has been discussions on and off about what color preserver is best. Here is the one I discovered. Water based polyurethane works very well as acoating for the wraps and also as a color preserver or at least the one made of the silk is when it is wetted with water. I use Russ G's AKA Golden Witch,method and use three coats of the water based followed with two to threecoats of Varathane. The results are fabulous. One note, if you use DeluxingCompound or dip your rods after you have wrapped or similarly subject therod to an oil condition, flood the wraps on the initial application of thewaterbased poly and make sure to fill the voild created by the guide feet withoil resisting material. I would think this is the same as when using ordinarycolor preserver. I found this the hard way. After finishing the wraps, I used the DeluxingCompound. It is a polishing material in a mixture of oil and waxes. I used theDeluxing compound liberally and didn't prevent some from getting in aroundthe feet. I had to rewind and refinish three places. This rod fought all theway through but it really cast's well. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Sep 14 12:50:13 2001 f8EHoCZ01385 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:50:12 -0500 f8EGkF006209; Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 Canerods@aol.com wrote: Now if we could only do something about the airhead TV reporters askingtheir typically repugnant "how do you feel about the loss of your loved one?" asinine questions. There must be a journalism class that teaches them howto be total dipshits. No class, the american public are the teachers. Getting people to breakdown in tears in their interview is good for ratings, good ratings meansmore ad $, more ad $ means higher paychecks for these souless reporters.But in the end, we make the ratings so who best to blame? We just needreporters with good hearts and common sense judgement, that's all. I for one appreciated seeing Charles Burlingame's wife and brother tell usin tears that he worked at the Pentagon and both their parents were buriedin the cemetary right nearby and that he would never have crashed thatplane if it were under his control. That way we could grieve with them.This makes it real for us so we won't forget, and won't bitch about highergas prices and longer waits to board a plane. Seeing the crashes on TVseem like another Hollywood spectacle, how could it be real? We need toknow how real it is to muster what it will take to free the world ofterrorism. Take a look for yourself: http://usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/victims-list.htm On AA flight 77 alone was what looks to be 3 & 8 year old sisters withtheir father (Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, Zoe Falkenberg 8, DanaFalkenberg, 3) and I believe their mother was on this flight as well.A whole family gone. I can only imagine the pain. IMHO of course, Bob from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 14 14:04:43 2001 f8EJ4gZ03745 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:04:42 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:30:22 -0500 Subject: test, delete please TEST! Can't get any post to go through to rodmakers... just checking to =see if this one does. Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm to see if this one does. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods ht=tp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from lblan@provide.net Fri Sep 14 14:04:44 2001 f8EJ4iZ03750 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:04:44 -0500 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:04:45 -0400 Subject: RE: OT Posts I'm fairly certain that if the list owner or his ever vigilant assistantasked someone to "stop" and that individual did not comply, they would act.One of the reasons "only a dozen or so" folks post regularly is simply dueto the fact that no one else *posts*. I personally find great value inknowing that Bret's son is alive and well, that Kevin had to overcome manyobstacles to get home from Manhattan, and appreciated Harry's post, as wellas the discussion that followed. Larry Blan-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Comments about our President Alain's right. Can this list go back to rodmaking! You guys who do it all the time havebeen asked to stop many times before. There are many list memberssubscribing, but only a dozen or so who constantly take up space. PLEASE,join a chat room or get a life. From: Alain Subject: Re: Comments about our PresidentDate: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:28:21 -0400 Hi, Is there a list administrator ? I have to delete 95 % of all messages received which are not of any concern about RodMakers, Rods, Bamboo; Planes, Scrapers etc... Because I don't see the lead about "Rodmakers" Is it possible to exchange these messages elsewhere. Alain. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com fairly certain that if the list owner or his ever vigilant assistant = someone to "stop" and that individual did not comply, they would act. = reasons "only a dozen or so" folks post regularly is simply due to the = no one else *posts*. I personally find great value in knowing that = alive and well, that Kevin had to overcome many obstacles to get home = followed. Blan petrieSent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:39 = aldupon@sympatico.ca; Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:= Comments about our President subscribing, but only a dozen or so who constantly take up = Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Fri Sep 14 14:05:01 2001 f8EJ51Z03775 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:05:01 -0500 f8EGaJbg026108; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:36:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments about our President Mark Petrie, if you do not like the list please leave. We all (on the =list) have a life and the events of the last few days has changed or =will change everyone's way of life in the future. Many of you still do =not understand the gravity and far reaching effects that these events =will bring to the world at large. I pray for ignorance. Darrin Curtis Subject: Re: Comments about our President Can this list go back to rodmaking! You guys who do it all the time =have been asked to stop many times before. There are many list members =subscribing, but only a dozen or so who constantly take up space. = -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Mark Petrie, if you do not like the = Many of you still do not understand the gravity and far reaching effects = ignorance. Darrin Curtis ----- Original Message ----- petrie Sent: Friday, September 14, = AMSubject: Re: Comments about our= President subscribing, but only a dozen or so who constantly take up = Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Sep 14 14:35:30 2001 f8EJZTZ05082 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:35:30 - , Subject: Re: when to heat treat I split theculm in two, then flame each half to achieve a mottled "tortoiseshell" look in the finished blanks. from OSEGAL@glcc.com Fri Sep 14 14:39:40 2001 f8EJddZ05224 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:39:39 -0500 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:21:12 -0400 Subject: Re: test, delete please Yes you did. Oscar "Bob Nunley" 09/14/01 04:01PM >>> TEST! Can't get any post to go through to rodmakers... just checking to =see if this one does. Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker http://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm Yes you did. = to see if this one does. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rods http=://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 14 15:03:20 2001 f8EK3FZ06083 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:03:15 -0500 ;Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:06:09 +0000 Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... (not so long!) You're absolutely right, it is $5 million I got carried away I guess. Jack from parataper@hotmail.com Fri Sep 14 15:12:45 2001 f8EKCiZ06351 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:12:44 -0500 Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:55:25 -0700 HTTP; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:55:24 GMT Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Comments about our President FILETIME=[0C9FCAF0:01C13D3E] When I reply to someone from this site, I generally do it off list, unless it more than the last few days that this has gone on, people like you Mr. Curtis care to hear about your problems. , (on the list) have a life and the events of the last few days has changed orwill change everyone's way of life in the future. Many of you still do notunderstand the gravity and far reaching effects that these events will bringto the world at large. I pray for ignorance. the time have been asked to stop many times before. There are many listmembers subscribing, but only a dozen or so who constantly take up space.PLEASE, join a chat room or get a life. ------ http://explorer.msn.com Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from captvonbek@earthlink.net Fri Sep 14 16:09:10 2001 f8EL99Z08151 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:09:09 -0500 NAA00097 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:26:11 -0700 f8EKQA529359 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:26:10 -0700 Subject: Thanks folks Thanks to many of you for clearing up my confusion about the P Jenkinscomments on W. I appreciate your contacting me to clarify it all. Isuppose I backslide a bit sometimes and forget what a solid community offolks exists here on this list. Since the very moment the attacks occurred, I've listened to a great dealof negative comments about our president in my workplace, an elementaryschool. It has been disheartening, a shame that such folks cannot getbeyond that nonsense even in the midst of a national crisis when solidarityis crucial. That being said, I apologize for getting off-topic. Sincerest regards, Frank --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 14 17:17:30 2001 f8EMHUZ09882 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:17:30 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:43:10 -0500 Subject: Fw: when to heat treat Tried to post this earlier, but it didn't go through, so here we goagain.... Before procuring the Bellinger rough beveller I use, I planed down to about .020 over final dimensions and heat treated. Now I rough mill so that the"big end" of the strips is about .020 over and heat treat the straightmilled strips, then proceed to final planing from there. Honestly it seems to make no difference at all, so far as "feel" of the final rod, changing from oversized planed tapered strips to heat treating the straight strips.I do agree with Ted. There is probably going to be some shrinkingduring heat treating, so I personally would not even consider heat treating after final planing. Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Fly Rodshttp://members.clnk.com/caneman/images/flystuff/caneindex.htm ----- Original Message -----From: "Ted" Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:20 AMSubject: Re: when to heat treat I heat treat before finish planing. I found by experimenting with shortsections in my kitchen oven that the bamboo shrinks when heated. Theshrinkage seems to be proportional to cross section, ie., tips shrink less than butts. If you are concerned about the finish sizes being acccurate, it is necessary to be able to predict how much shrinkage will occur. Planing after heat treating assures that you will be on design. from Lazybee45@aol.com Fri Sep 14 18:18:10 2001 f8ENI8Z11569 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:18:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Another Day In a message dated 9/14/01 10:23:39 AM Central Daylight Time, flyfish@defnet.com writes: Yes yes yes! I have dear friends who are Arab-Americans. I have performed magic for their kids, I have performed at the "Mother Mosque" which is the oldest Mosque inNorth AMerica. These are NICE PEOPLE and they are as appalled as any other American by this horrible thing! My friend Kamal owns a carpet shop and just recently moved into a new building which he has been slaving over renovating. His family and his employees have worked hard to make it nice. I can see no way that he is Anti-American or a "Terrorist" of any kind. Nor my neighbors up the street!These guys who did this are no more TRUE Moslem than The Neo-Nazis are "True" Christians! mark from splitcane@home.com Fri Sep 14 18:29:55 2001 f8ENTsZ11914 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:29:54 -0500 ;Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:20:29 -0700 , Subject: Re: Reed and Harry's Discussion ----- Original Message ----- I would not hesitate to go fishing withMr.Jennings.I would even loan him a fly rod!mark ----- Original Message ----- If this is true, I'd take himfishing...and drown his ass.Ed Ed, Make sure and get Marks rod before you drown him as Mr. Jennings is notworth the cane it would take to cane him...Take Care, Dave from splitcane@home.com Fri Sep 14 19:36:22 2001 f8F0aLZ12757 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:36:21 -0500 ;Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:30:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Comments about our President THREE CHEERS FOR "GW" * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Comments about our President Frank,I can't speak for others, only for myself, but I support "W" and anydecisions he makes in this time of crisis. Maybe it's because I'm an oldmilitary dog, or maybe it's because I think it's a time for us, as American citizens to stand together... not really sure, but one thing I am sure of is that George W. Bush, regardless of peoples personal feelings about him, isdoing is best to bring justice from this situation, and the VERY least hedeserves is our undying support. BobUSAF RetiredCommitted, for life, to supporting the Commander in Chief, and damn proud of it!!! Are you some of you making negative comments about our president?Pleaseclarify. If you are then, let it be known. Such comments in this time of crisis are derived from the lowest common denominator and should not beexpressed on this list. This, of all times, is a time for solidarity, not civil war. --- Frank Olivieri--- captvonbek@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Sep 14 19:36:30 2001 f8F0aTZ12762 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:36:29 - id f8F0aKN02962; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:36:20 +0900 (JST) id JAA06294; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:36:19 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: when to heat treat Hi, Though this will not affect any of you which use Tonkin cane,in using Japanese cane for a rod, oily elememnt will come out more thanTonkin by heating. Usually professional will heat and wipe those sap offat first by clothes several times before splitting.The strips which was heat treated seem to have a slight layer of thus driedoily element on the surface.It seems to become easier for the glued strips to be delaminated easier thanthe case of planing off the surface at final planing. So, I also make it a standard to final plane after the strips are heattreated. Max I heat treat before finish planing. I found by experimenting with shortsections in my kitchen oven that the bamboo shrinks when heated. Theshrinkage seems to be proportional to cross section, ie., tips shrink lessthan butts. If you are concerned about the finish sizes being acccurate, it is necessary to be able to predict how much shrinkage will occur. Planingafter heat treating assures that you will be on design. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Sep 14 20:04:04 2001 f8F143Z12967 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:04:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Ed's Riddle's comment Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 09/13/2001 9:39:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: I remember watching the Howdy Doody show, when I waslittle. I remember Clara-Belle the clown, but I don't know whohe was. Who was He? I remember Mr. Green Jeans and the wholecrew. Boy, that was a long time ago. Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Sep 14 21:44:08 2001 f8F2i7Q14973 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:44:07 -0500 (authenticated) for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:43:57 -0700 Subject: Test Sorry for the bandwidth --"Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing..."-- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Fri Sep 14 21:59:19 2001 f8F2xIQ15667 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:59:18 -0500 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:59:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Comments about our President If you don't like all the banter, just sign-off. You can always read therodmaking messages later using the search engine on the Rodmaker website. Personally, I like reading all of the messages. This is a community ofpeople with a common interest. If a bunch of us were hanging out insomebody's shop this week, we'd be talking about the attack - probably nota lot about rodmaking. At 08:28 AM 09/14/2001 -0400, Alain wrote: Hi, Is there a list administrator ? I have to delete 95 % of all messages received which are not of any concern about RodMakers, Rods, Bamboo; Planes, Scrapers etc... Because I don't see the lead about "Rodmakers" Is it possible to exchange these messages elsewhere. Alain. from timklein@qwest.net Fri Sep 14 22:15:26 2001 f8F3FPQ16594 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:15:25 -0500 (63.225.241.168) Subject: Fw: Trust for Dora Menchaca's son One of the passengers on American flight 77 was an employee of thecompany Iwork for. I didn't know her personally and I'm sure that her family's story will betypical of many you will see in the coming days, but I wanted to pass italong anyway: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-091301grief.story An educational trust fund has been established for Dora's 4 year old son. If "LaSalle Bank Trustee for the Jaryd A. Dorsey Educational Trust." LaSalle BankTrustee for the Jaryd A. Dorsey Educational Trustc/o Waltraud Klein135 S. LaSalle Street, Room 1925Chicago, IL 60603 I apologize in advance to anyone who feels this post is inappropriate. Ifeel so damn helpless in this whole thing and as a regular businesstraveler, this story simply hit too close to home; it's what finally put meover the edge into full blown tears. I've done what I can to help and I amonly hoping that I can do something small to help just a little bit more. Again, I'm sorry if I offend anyone.---Tim from timklein@qwest.net Fri Sep 14 22:32:08 2001 f8F3W7Q17249 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:32:07 -0500 (63.225.241.168) Subject: How to help... One additional post. I frequently use the following website to locate respectable organizationsto which I can donate: http://www.helping.org/ They have several listings for groups that are helping with this crisis. ---Tim from timklein@qwest.net Fri Sep 14 22:39:41 2001 f8F3dfQ17478 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:39:41 -0500 (63.225.241.168) Subject: Re: Trust for Dora Menchaca's son I'm sorry, I should have mentioned in my original post that I have norelationship to the "Waltraud Klein" listed as the contact for the trust. As I mentioned, my only connection is that Dora Menchaca worked for thesamecompany as I do.---Tim I previously wrote: One of the passengers on American flight 77 was an employee of thecompany I work for. I didn't know her personally and I'm sure that her family's story will betypical of many you will see in the coming days, but I wanted to pass italong anyway: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-091301grief.story An educational trust fund has been established for Dora's 4 year old son. If "LaSalle Bank Trustee for the Jaryd A. Dorsey Educational Trust." LaSalle BankTrustee for the Jaryd A. Dorsey Educational Trustc/o Waltraud Klein135 S. LaSalle Street, Room 1925Chicago, IL 60603 I apologize in advance to anyone who feels this post is inappropriate. Ifeel so damn helpless in this whole thing and as a regular businesstraveler, this story simply hit too close to home; it's what finally put me over the edge into full blown tears. I've done what I can to help and I amonly hoping that I can do something small to help just a little bit more. Again, I'm sorry if I offend anyone.---Tim from Canerods@aol.com Sat Sep 15 00:08:39 2001 f8F58cQ18614 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:08:38 -0500 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 01:08:33 -0400 Subject: RE:test And he saith unto them. Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. And he saith unto them.Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. from ctn45555@centurytel.net Sat Sep 15 00:21:27 2001 f8F5LQQ18901 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:21:26 - f8F5LPB19444 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:21:26 - Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: [Fwd: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested...] --------------47632AC3B3DE355139EE436C I live in the middle of nowhere in southeastern Oregon, so I understandthe nearanother unlikely bombing site, Oklahoma City, when a bomb shattered many peoples illusions of security there. Believe me, this sort terrorist actaffectsevery square inch of every state in this nation, whether that be readilyapparentor not. Chad Boyd Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/11/01 11:38:42 PM Central Daylight Time,flyrod@pop.digisys.net writes: Jim(who redises in Montana where this kind of thing doenst happen) Yeah. I agree! Also I am happy that I live where I do. i mean what sort of symbolism is there in bombing Cedar Rapids Iowa? it would take a couple of weeks for the world to find out!mark --------------47632AC3B3DE355139EE436C Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: Re: My thoughts tonight, if you're interested... I live in the middle of nowhere in southeastern Oregon, so I understand the another very unlikely bombing site, Oklahoma City, when a bomb shatteredmanypeoples illusions of security there. Believe me, this sort terrorist actaffectsevery square inch of every state in this nation, whether that be readilyapparentor not. Chad Boyd Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/11/01 11:38:42 PM Central Daylight Time,flyrod@pop.digisys.net writes: Jim(who redises in Montana where this kind of thing doenst happen) Yeah. I agree! Also I am happy that I live where I do. i mean what sort ofsymbolism is there in bombing Cedar Rapids Iowa? it would take a couple ofweeks for the world to find out!mark --------------47632AC3B3DE355139EE436C-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Sep 15 01:43:20 2001 f8F6hJQ19917 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 01:43:19 - Subject: Re: Comments about our President Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Bob,Any person in this country whether you like them or not, if they are our President they deserve, no they DEMAND our respect for the office they are in. Bill Clinton was not my favorite person as a person but he was still our President and in that respect he got my undying respect and support.Bret Bob,Any person in this country whether you like them or not, if they are ourPresident they deserve, no they DEMAND our respect for the office they are our President and in that respect he got my undying respect and support.Bret from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Sep 15 08:17:03 2001 f8FDH2Q23702 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:17:02 - Subject: Re: Comments about our President In a message dated 9/14/01 9:59:53 PM Central Daylight Time, TBOWDEN@halcyon.com writes: I agree. This is a community, our focus is in a single direction somewhat, but a community nonetheless. I am also a member of the HPV list (Human powered vehicles) and the discussion is much the same there. I havereceived on that list as well as from my R/C airplane friends, notes of support and encouragement from people in Israel, Russia, Tiawan, Hong Kong, Austrailia, and on and on. I don't see this so much as a fight between the US and some other country, as it is a fight between civilization and those who would destroy it. I really wish that this had not happened, but I am also not stupid. What the answer is, I can't tell you. But I am really hoping (and yes praying, Oh BOY am I praying!) that we can resolve this!What I think is funny, is that this sort of thing has happened all over the world and we have turned a blind eye. The only difference here is that it has hit HERE and is so bad. It seems that when this sort of thing happens somewhwere else, we ignore it, or say, "That isn't important" WHY? Every one of those other attacks simply set us up for this!sheesh. I will be back to rodmaking soonenough!mark from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Sep 15 09:03:08 2001 f8FE37Q24475 for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:03:07 -