I am willing to answer questions and help anyone out that might haveMicrosoft Outlook Email question. Contact me off list. Peter from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Nov 8 15:17:58 2001 fA8LHvN28636 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:17:57 -0600 sender ) Subject: Re: Cracked ferrule and do ferrules swell? I find it very hard to believe moisture would generate enough pressure todeform a ferrule. The ferrule is much stronger than the surroundingbamboo.Unless it froze, the moisture would migrate and the bamboo not under theferrule would swell, thus relieving the pressure. If it froze, then thecapillaries would be blocked and all the pressure would be directed on theferrule walls.I'm not surprised that a couple weeks after a ferrule is fitted it mightneed a little tweaking. It doesn't take much oxidation to tightened analready tight fit. Not to mention dust and dirt. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Cracked ferrule and do ferrules swell? This is an interesting comment. I fit the ferrules to the blanks and then fit the ferrules together. I had found that if the ferrules were fitted together before being mounted on the rod they tended to a little loose after fitted to the rod. I think this is to do with the greater leaverage and better grip one gets when the ferrules are attached to a rod. But I have sometimes had a similar expereince to Robert in that a few weeks later when the rod has been varnished , polished etc the ferrules which were previously a perfect fit had become a little tight. I now tend now to give the ferrules a final check and polish when I am polishing the rod which restores the fit but I had not given a lot of thought to the reason . Steve, Are you storing strips in a tube with dessicant while you work on them? I have been doing this to maintain the low moisture levels after heattreating to ensure consistent dimensions of finished strips. I've oftennoticed that ferrules often get tighter for several months after finishing a rod and have attributed this to the cane swelling as it comes to equilibrium with the ambient humidity. I've also had ferrules get too tight to separate after a long day of fishing in the rain, only to have them come apart easily after sitting at home for several days. I suspect that your split ferrule was due to the cane swelling from moisture. How tight the fit was offerrule to cane should not make much difference because any voids are filled with glue. -- Robert----- Original Message -----From: "Steve Zimmerman" Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:09 AMSubject: Cracked ferrule I made a one-tip rod and went about a year without using it. It's been in its tube during that time. I took it out the other day and noticed that the male ferrule had split all along it's length. I've never seen thatbefore--but it's making me wonder if my other rods will do the same thing. What would have caused that? An air pocket? Expansion of the glue(I'm using Epoxy)? Moisture in the bamboo? I don't recall the specifics of this rod, but I'm not one who forces the ferrule on really tightly. --Steve --Tasman Solutions Ltd.Real People in Cyber Spacehttp://www.ts.co.nz from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Nov 8 15:17:59 2001 fA8LHwN28642 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:17:58 -0600 sender ) Subject: Re: USPS/ xray treatment Actually, they irradiate rubber for tires to cross link the matrix of therubber (that's what they tell me). I repair cancer treatment machinescapable of high energy x-rays and electron beams up to 24 MV, (typical chest interesting to see if they have any effect on bamboo, I'm sure it will, butto what degree I have no idea. The machines that irradiate in manufacturinghave a very high beam current and deliver very high doses that my machinesare not capable of. I'll have to talk to some of the physicists to see whatkind of dose they think it will take to make significant changes in thebamboo. tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: USPS In a message dated 11/8/1 7:54:05 AM, timklein@qwest.net writes: route bundles of strips through one of the east coast post offices for tempering... Might work, Tim, but if there is any mould on the cane, you might also end up explaining rod building theory to the FBI. from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Nov 8 15:46:45 2001 fA8LkjN05369 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:46:45 -0600 Subject: Hyrocrisy To The ListIsn't it amusing to read messages dealing with solutions to handling =the current overload problem being sent by some of the overload =contributors? Bill To The List from jfoster@gte.net Thu Nov 8 16:23:04 2001 fA8MN3N13332 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:23:03 -0600 fA8MN6fn029610 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:23:07 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011022 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Reel Seat Nickel Silver Tubing Thanks Mike, et al here's why html doesn't parse so wellthat's what the raw archives look like..couldn't you set up a seperate id for the listserver? nonsense going to help learn anything..if you just have to run your mouth, go find a chat room thanks jerry ---------------- 0DocumentEmail Re=xjewelry is a good analogy My=stepsare a bit rustic Im sure but they =work. - =Findagate sheets at a lapidary supply or have them cut. I have gotten some = from Einsteins The =smallersizes are thinner usually. Thinner is better I think. I also stop in anylapidary store I pass. -G=et a and 13mm/9.5mm they cover most ring =sizes. =Northare my suppliers for these both have web pages = - =Create ajig so you can core out agate from both sides if not I have a tendency =to blow plexaglas witha 1/8 piece of butyl rubber cover into which I have drilled two holes =with on thedrill press and core the inside and then the outside diameters use =plenty ofliquid. I use a solution for this from Rio Grande. After cutting I shape =andbuff with diamond burrs tapered point and diamond pastes on toothpicks. =I use aset of arbors and cups to hold the stone rings in place that I made. I =do allof this on my lathe. Option two is to find out where Darryl Whitehead is =getting -I=bezelthe rings with nickel silver 1/8” flat bezel stock =“Metalworks.com by solderingwith soft silver solder. Turn the bezel over the stone with a bezel Bacon he hasanother way to do this. -f=orm the =I use 16 silver wire Visualize the - =Bend up arch. - =Press in he=at sink - =dremel flatten the buff the works. No=w I anyof this makes sense good luck. Jo=eArguello’s Web page has photos of some of the tools and materials =necessary youcan get to him throughRodmakers. -----OriginalMessage-----From: Rex Tutor Sent: Friday, October 05,=20018:35 PM tausfeld@frontiernet.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: RE: Stripper=guides Do you have a site that descibes your process =?IS it like making jewelery ?thanks, Sign up = free About Email account at http://About.com from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Nov 8 17:10:51 2001 fA8NApN23058 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:10:51 -0600 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:10:56 -0500 Subject: Re:Hypocrisy Hypocrisy. At least were trying to solve it , you seem to be = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} No your not amusing. And I think the word your looking for is = Hypocrisy. At least were trying to solve it , you seem to be = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from JNL123141@msn.com Thu Nov 8 17:59:38 2001 fA8NxbN01755 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:59:37 -0600 Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:59:28 -0800 , "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: USPS/ xray treatment FILETIME=[668A3C00:01C168B1] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: USPS/ xray treatment Actually, they irradiate rubber for tires to cross link the matrix of therubber (that's what they tell me). I repair cancer treatment machinescapable of high energy x-rays and electron beams up to 24 MV, (typical ch=est interesting to see if they have any effect on bamboo, I'm sure it will, b=utto what degree I have no idea. The machines that irradiate in manufactur=inghave a very high beam current and deliver very high doses that my machine=sare not capable of. I'll have to talk to some of the physicists to see w=hatkind of dose they think it will take to make significant changes in thebamboo. tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: USPS In a message dated 11/8/1 7:54:05 AM, timklein@qwest.net writes: route bundles of strips through one of the east coast post offices for tempering... Might work, Tim, but if there is any mould on the cane, you might also = endup explaining rod building theory to the FBI. Nuclearfusion= =- Original Message ----- From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 4:42 timk=lein@qwest.net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: USPS/ xray treatment hinescapable of high energy x-rays and electron beams up to 24 MV, (t=ypical chestx-ray is 120kv) it would beinteresting to see if they=have any effect on bamboo, I'm sure it will, butto what degree I hav= ery high beam current and deliver very high doses that mymachinesare= whatkind of dose they think it will take to make significant changes=in thebamboo.tom----- Original Message-----= &= 2001 7:= dated 11/= =I'd like to know is whether I can skip the heat treating step andjust= po= from briansr@point-net.com Thu Nov 8 18:08:38 2001 fA908bN03787 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:08:38 -0600 fA90R1v12039; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:27:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Hyrocrisy Hi BillGood post Trouble is it seems that some members have a rather short fuse AND IT'S =LIT !!!Cheers Brian Subject: Hyrocrisy To The ListIsn't it amusing to read messages dealing with solutions to handling =the current overload problem being sent by some of the overload =contributors? Bill Hi Bill Trouble is it seems that some members have arather = AND IT'S LIT !!!Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- Fink Sent: November 8, 2001 3:30 =PMSubject: Hyrocrisy To The List with solutions to handling the current overload problem being = Bill from dstreight@yarcom.com Thu Nov 8 18:28:09 2001 fA90S8N08216 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:28:08 -0600 0800 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Thanks to all that provided information and support. I am happy toreportthat I received the back issue order (placed 30 Aug 01) today. In fact,Mike apparently included an extra copy of each issue I ordered as a bonus ofsorts. Not certain what motivated the delivery finally but I have recentlyunleashed a barrage of emails to various folks, some of whom may besourcesof income for him. Either way, I can finally read the articles from that first year ofpublication. Nice article on Mike Clark and Jimmy Zinny as well. Cheers,Dave from pohl@earthlink.net Thu Nov 8 18:41:51 2001 fA90foN11367 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:41:50 -0600 id 161zk5-0007hZ-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:41:57 -0800 Subject: Leonard 38 taper (7042) Could someone please discribe the action of this rod to me. also, couldsomeone please provide me with the taper. Thanks , Mark from pohl@earthlink.net Thu Nov 8 18:44:39 2001 fA90icN12155 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:44:38 -0600 id 161zmn-00034H-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:44:45 -0800 Subject: howell's book What builder's tapers are in howell's = Mark from bob@downandacross.com Thu Nov 8 18:56:58 2001 fA90uvN14864 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:56:57 -0600 Subject: RE: howell's book Mark:A small Divine, a few Gillums and Youngs, a whole bunch of Dickersons, aPayne or two, and a Heddon, I believe. I could dig the book out if you wantto know more specifically. I would say it is the best book for tapers of thethree or four major recommendations you see on the list.Best regards, Bob----- Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:40 PM Subject: howell's book What builder's tapers are in howell's book? Thanks, Mark Mark: small Divine, a few Gillums and Youngs, a whole bunch of Dickersons, a = two, and a Heddon, I believe. I could dig the book out if you want to = specifically. I would say it is the best book for tapers of the three or = major recommendations you see on the list. regards, Bob PohlSent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:40 bookWhat builder's tapers are in howell's = Thanks, Mark from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Thu Nov 8 19:23:03 2001 fA91N2N16137 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:23:02 -0600 Subject: Re: USPS/ xray treatment snipped >> to what degree I have no idea. The machines that irradiatein manufacturinghave a very high beam current Dang ! how much is one of those gonna cost ? I'm never gonna get my shop set up ! [:-)] Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Nov 8 19:40:00 2001 fA91dxN16989 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:39:59 -0600 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:40:02 -0500 Subject: Re: List Archives CD And count me in on a CD too, pay up front, no problemo! And Adam, zappp!What a shot!Mike----- Original Message ----- Subject: List Archives CD I bet you could even get some of us to prepay for the CD archive to help defray any cost.(Just keep Mark Metcalf away from the project). Adam Vigil from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Nov 8 19:43:03 2001 fA91h2N17284 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:43:02 -0600 Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:42:57 -0800 Fri, 09 Nov 2001 01:42:56 GMT Subject: Re: Leonard 38 taper (7042) FILETIME=[DB6C3AB0:01C168BF] you need to come up with the taper first, there are alot of doggy Leonards. I really like the good ones, they are smooth with a nice soft snap to them, A bad Leonard is something else again, dead ,lifeless, no power. A 7ft Granger is a nice lively med fast 4wt, a GOOD 38H(don't bother with the others) is a shde slower and smoother with a more delicate tip. a Garrison is slower yet and powerful in a full flexing kind of way.A.J. From: "Mark & Kathy Pohl" Subject: Leonard 38 taper (7042)Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:36:57 -0500 Could someone please discribe the action of this rod to me. also, couldsomeone please provide me with the taper. Thanks , Mark _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Nov 8 20:19:02 2001 fA92J2N19372 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:19:02 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: unsubscribe rodmakers from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Thu Nov 8 20:22:48 2001 fA92MmN19746 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:22:48 -0600 08 Nov 2001 18:22:55 PST Subject: Re: ACKLAND delete No Comment.....--- Rex Tutor wrote: List Serve Question,Why do I have to delete 20 messages for the 10th day in a row to get to rod making ? Sign up for a free About Email account athttp://About.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Nov 8 20:30:45 2001 fA92UiN20236 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:30:44 -0600 Subject: Re: cutting a bead in NS? Grayson,Do you have any relief on the sides of this blade? Youhave a relief cut into the leading edge of the blade, you alsoneed some relief on the sides. The top of the cutter should be wider than the sides. If you know what I mean? The sides shouldtaper down, just as the front does. You may all ready have this,but I thought I'd check. just in case. Also, when you shape the top of the cutter, give that somerelief also. Grind the top with a slight down ward slope away fromthe leading edge. Make sure the cutter is sharp. Like a plane blade and centered. They sell a centering tool, that has a bubblein it like a level. It has a "V" cut into one side, that goes againstthe round stock. The other side has two steps. One for turningand one for cutting off. This part is set onto the tip of your tooland you adjust the cutter until the bubble is centered. Then youknow you are on center. I got it from MSC. It was around $45.00A good investment. Dave Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from martinrjensen@home.com Thu Nov 8 20:42:58 2001 fA92gvN20893 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:42:57 -0600 femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:42:58 -0800 Subject: RE: Replying to rodmakers Maybe Mike could change the way replies are sent back to the "old" way.That way, if you hit "reply" your message went only to the list, and ifyou hit "reply to all" it went to the list and the originator. It'sbackwards now, and you have to manually edit it every time you want tosend only to the list.Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Replying to rodmakers The way I reply , is to reply with a new email to rodmakers and not hitthereply all button. That way only my reply goes out to the list and notthe others original message with it.It's a little more time consuming, but It has to help out with thearchive thing.If we all did this there would not be as much residual left in thearchives.Is this the wrong way to go about it?All I do is click on rod makers in my contact list and of course I haveto type Re:(and the subject) into the subject box.Its a small pain ,but I figure its worth it.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Maybe Mike could change the way =repliesare sent back to the “old” way. That way, if you hit =“reply” your message wentonly to the list, and if you hit “reply to all” it went to =the list and theoriginator. It’s backwards now, and you have to manually edit it =every time youwant to send only to the list. Martin =Jensen = -----Original =Message-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Thursday,November =08, 20019:13 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Replying to =rodmakers rodmakersand not hit the reply all button. That way only my reply goes out to the =list andnot the others original message with it. It's a little more time consuming, but It has to help out =with thearchive thing. If we all did this there would not be as much residual left =in thearchives. Is this the wrong way to go about =it? All I do is click on rod makers in my contact list and of =course Ihave to type Re:(and the subject) into the subject =box. Its a small pain ,but I figure its worth =it. Tony Miller www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Nov 8 20:51:36 2001 fA92pZN21439 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:51:35 -0600 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:51:34 -0500 Subject: Re: hyrocrisy LOL Why Bill and BrainWhatever do you mean?Why if I thought we weren't friends no more,Well, I don't think I could, BARE ITTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Why Bill and BrainWhatever do you mean? Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Nov 8 21:12:38 2001 fA93CbN22454 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:12:37 -0600 Subject: Re: cutting a bead in NS? In a message dated 11/07/2001 12:20:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu writes: I was just wondering about the width of your cutter. Is itreally 0.1" ? That's .100" that's quite wide. That may bepart of your problem, also. The wider the cutter, the more trouble you'll have. And how deep are you going? Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 8 21:14:01 2001 fA93E0N22681 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:14:00 -0600 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:14:03 -0500 Subject: Tack Cloths List, The brand of tack cloth that I've been using for years is known as SurgicalBlue. None of the bad stuff in these. They will, if you press them onto theblank rather than wipe with them, leave a mark, but nothing that will affectthe finish. On the contrary, the stuff is compatible with the finish. Theyare available from auto finishing suppliers. I get mine from a discount toolsupplier. Can't remember the cost, as it has been a while since I've boughtany, and I buy them by the dozen, but they're not going to break the bank. M-D from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Nov 8 22:48:00 2001 fA94m0N28550 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:48:00 -0600 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:48:05 -0500 Subject: Fw: Hypocrisy/burr!!!! Check out what was sent to me LOLI think he's trying to tell me I can't spell either.:))I'll bet you guys didn't know this LOL That I can't spell:))Tony Miller--- -- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Hypocrisy As long as we have started correcting each other's posts... "No your not amusing" I think you mean either "you are" or "you're" not "your" "At least were trying to solve it" I think you mean either "we are" or "we're" not "were" "Why if I thought we weren't friends no more," I think you mean "we weren't friends any more" not "we weren't friends nomore," "Well, I don't think I could, BARE IT" I think you mean "bear it" not "BARE IT" Let me know if you want your punctuation corrected. Steve Dunn from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 8 23:19:51 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fA95JoN29368 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:19:50 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:19:57 -0600 Subject: Perspective on Plane blades and so forth Dear Newer List Members: I enjoy the dustups Terry creates, because a lot of information gets shared,and I respect his opinion on many things. But he is much better at dishingit out than taking it. When grouchy he feels free to call everyone on thelist an amateur or an idiot or a fool, but when someone questions hisopinion he doesn't like it much and his response often includes thesuggestion that he knows more than anyone on the list about the subject athand. Actually a more humble approach is in order. The list includeseveryone from college students to physicians to machinists to seniorscientists to full time rodmakers to corporate managers, and everything inbetween. Some list members have written some of the best books around onbamboo rodmaking. I've not been to any of the rodmakers gatherings or metlist members personally (except one who lives in my town), but it's clear tome there are some great people on this list. I'd include Terry in that - butthen I often find myself liking irascible but knowledgeable people in spiteof their grouchy spells. The idea that there is some nefarious list culture fostered by a small groupof insiders is ridiculous. It's the most helpful and least flammable listI've ever seen. I'm saying this only to help newer listers interpret thisthread. I'm no veteran rodmaker but I have been on the list for a couple ofyears and have seen us go through several cycles of this sort. Don't let itput you off, and keep asking questions. Searching the archives first isoften a good move, but sometimes you have to ask your question to find outthe terms for which to search. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Plane blades and so forth Jason,You now have an idea of the flavour of the list. I gave you an honestopinionafter making many, many rods with a standard plane.During the course of the debate I have received many private e-mails fromlongtime list members agreeing with my personal findings. It is a pity that guyshave to respond privately rather than chance the wrath of certain innercirclemembers.Terry Jason Swan wrote: I want to thank all those who responded to my question regarding Stanleyplanes and Hock blades (irons, sorry). I need to say as well that this is not my business, nor is it my life. Ihave very little use for ultra technical information, nor do I need to know what the composition of my tools are. My interest in this particular craft is simply a desire to create something of value that I can use or give away. At some point, I may even sell a rod or two. I do hope to build many ofthem, and I want to build the best product I can. So, when I asked thequestion, I was looking for was considered and expert opinions. For themost part, that is what I got. And I sincerely thank you all. I may beguilty of making a large assumption here, but I think many of us, certainly most of the newbies on the list, like myself, don't have much use for thetechnical minutia that came from my original post. Having said all this, I do like to know why I should buy something.Especially when it is comparatively expensive. Knowing what goes into ablade can be important. What is more important, to me, is knowing whatexperienced users think of a particular tool. I have high regard for therod makers on this list. I generally trust you to help me choose propertools and build a better rod. Finally, what is wrong with having an opinion that is not in accordance with the general consensus of the list (rather, the consensus of those who postto the list)? Terry doesn't believe the Hock blades are worth the price.So what. When I responded to him asking him how one blade could be just as hard as another, I was curious. Now, I'm not. I am so NOT curious...However, I should say that Terry was not the only one to recommend that Iskip the Hock blade and stick with the standard Stanley. He was just themost vociferous of them. Our choice of tools is one of the things thatmakes us craftsmen, in any discipline. So, I will happily accept the gift of a Hock blade, and I will save mypennies and purchase more when I can, because enough of you haveconvincedme that that is a good thing to do. I will also keep my Stanley blade anduse it for roughing. Why not? That is still a decent blade and I might as well put it to good service. So, sorry for the long post. I guess I kind of feel responsible forstarting it. I also do thank those who have added to my knowledge andunderstanding of the craft. I believe I will be happy with my choice ofblades. If not, well I've lost a lot more than $40 in my life, and I willprobably waste more. What I would rather not waste is valued suggestionsand guidance. Jason PS: If anyone is interested, my father-in-law has a farm full of old truck springs (and tractor springs, and car springs, etc.) that he would probably give you a heck of a price on. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 8 23:19:58 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fA95JuN29373 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:19:56 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:20:00 -0600 Subject: RE: good rod, bad rod Onis - I've been struck with the way you can have two experienced casters, whodescribe the behavior of a "good rod" in similar terms, but who preferdifferent taper styles. One may like straight tapers like Garrison's, theother may be talking about very compound tapers like a Phillipson, or aso- called "parabolic" rod (one that flexes a lot in the butt while having arelatively stiff tip and mid section). I think an individual's body dynamicsmust have a lot to do with the tapers he or she prefers, so I suspect it'sas much a question of a good match between a person and a rod as it is"goodrod, bad rod." My personal answer to "good rod" is a taper that, when cast gently, flexesmainly in the top third of the rod, but when pushed for more power flexesrather deeply into the butt. At least that's how I experience them. The onesI like have tapers like the Phillipson 8 1/2 ft 5 wt PowerPakt. When yougraph these tapers (with distance from the tip along the x axis andflat-to-flat dimension along the y axis) you get a line with acharacteristic shape. Just about where each ferrule is located you have asteep section (an area where the shaft is getting thicker at a faster rate -that is, a stiff area). Just before and after these steep areas arerelatively flat areas (where the rod does not thicken as quickly - theseareas flex more as the energy of a cast travels down the rod shaft). Theseare VERY compound tapers, compared to Garrison-like tapers where the lineonthe graph goes up at about the same slope the whole way (after the firstfewinches), or a "parabolic" rod where the line is like a long low hump, whichapproaches a flat line in the butt. To me, the different shapes of theselines are easy to translate into the action of a rod, which I find difficultto do when looking at stress curves. Anyway, that's my idea of a good rod. I haven't seen comments on this on the list, but I think these tapers I likelend themselves to 3-piece construction because the extra stiffness at theferrules actually helps. Other tapers might not work so well in 3 pieces andwould be better in two or even one piece. But I don't think a taper of thekind I like would be much better as a one-piece rod, because as I said theferrules seem to help. This is just my impression, I haven't tried it. Thoseon the list who like one-piece rods - what kind of tapers do you use forthem? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: good rod, bad rod I would like to start a new thread. I've been working on a taper and havebeen revisiting the archives. This time something occurred to me. Whatdifferentiates a good rod from a bad one. In looking at the stress curvesof different rods, most show the greatest stress near the tip but someshowthe greatest stress at the butt. Some are designed to distribute the stressevenly across the rod. Some have a uniformly increasing diameter withvarious slopes to the change while others have the "parabolic" change. Someare "smooth" tapers while others have multiple radical changes in slope ofthe taper. What I am getting at is that looking at the curves, basically any "stick" ofbamboo would fall into near/on one of these tapers. There is a pretty widelatitude between the "fast" rods in the archive and the "slow" ones. Inother words, give a monkey a knife and some strips of bamboo. Let himwhittle them and glue the results together and (within reason) it would fitwithin the range of tapers in the archive when matched to the right(?) line.So, what makes a good taper? Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Nov 9 00:57:07 2001 fA96v3N01545 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:57:03 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:56:57 -0500 Subject: Re: good rod, bad rod Peerless PowerPakt 8' 6" 5wt 3pc - The taper of this rod seems very interesting, and the action Barry describes is appealing. Anyone else know anything about this rod? Is this rod considered a classic? I am new to bamboo rods, but as I get a little more in to it I am finding stress curves to be very helpful. This rod peaks about 1/3 of the length, dips down and troughs, then has another peak of roughly the same height at about 2/3 (see attached file). Maybe I don't know enough just yet but this would seem to be a fun rod to cast - and fish! I agree with the comment that was made regarding this list having a very low flame level relative to other lists (visit the homebrew digest list some time). You all have a great list here. Thanks, Kyle In a message dated 11/08/2001 9:20:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, KlingB@health.missouri.edu writes: Onis - I've been struck with the way you can have two experienced casters, whodescribe the behavior of a "good rod" in similar terms, but who preferdifferent taper styles. One may like straight tapers like Garrison's, theother may be talking about very compound tapers like a Phillipson, or aso- called "parabolic" rod (one that flexes a lot in the butt while having arelatively stiff tip and mid section). I think an individual's body dynamics must have a lot to do with the tapers he or she prefers, so I suspect it'sas much a question of a good match between a person and a rod as it is "good rod, bad rod."My personal answer to "good rod" is a taper that, when cast gently,flexesmainly in the top third of the rod, but when pushed for more power flexesrather deeply into the butt. At least that's how I experience them. The ones I like have tapers like the Phillipson 8 1/2 ft 5 wt PowerPakt. When yougraph these tapers (with distance from the tip along the x axis andflat-to-flat dimension along the y axis) you get a line with acharacteristic shape. Just about where each ferrule is located you have asteep section (an area where the shaft is getting thicker at a faster rate - that is, a stiff area). Just before and after these steep areas arerelatively flat areas (where the rod does not thicken as quickly - theseareas flex more as the energy of a cast travels down the rod shaft).Theseare VERY compound tapers, compared to Garrison-like tapers where theline on the graph goes up at about the same slope the whole way (after the first few inches), or a "parabolic" rod where the line is like a long low hump, whichapproaches a flat line in the butt. To me, the different shapes of theselines are easy to translate into the action of a rod, which I find difficult to do when looking at stress curves. Anyway, that's my idea of a good rod.I haven't seen comments on this on the list, but I think these tapers I like lend themselves to 3-piece construction because the extra stiffness attheferrules actually helps. Other tapers might not work so well in 3 pieces and would be better in two or even one piece. But I don't think a taper of thekind I like would be much better as a one-piece rod, because as I said theferrules seem to help. This is just my impression, I haven't tried it. Those on the list who like one-piece rods - what kind of tapers do you use forthem?Barry-----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: good rod, bad rodI would like to start a new thread. I've been working on a taper and havebeen revisiting the archives. This time something occurred to me. Whatdifferentiates a good rod from a bad one. In looking at the stress curvesof different rods, most show the greatest stress near the tip but someshowthe greatest stress at the butt. Some are designed to distribute the stress evenly across the rod. Some have a uniformly increasing diameter withvarious slopes to the change while others have the "parabolic" change. Some are "smooth" tapers while others have multiple radical changes in slope ofthe taper.What I am getting at is that looking at the curves, basically any "stick" of bamboo would fall into near/on one of these tapers. There is a pretty widelatitude between the "fast" rods in the archive and the "slow" ones. Inother words, give a monkey a knife and some strips of bamboo. Let himwhittle them and glue the results together and (within reason) it would fitwithin the range of tapers in the archive when matched to the right(?) line. So, what makes a good taper?Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com-------------- --------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-za01.mx.aol.com (rly-za01.mail.aol.com Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:20:39 -0500 rly- Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:20:27 -0500 fA95KHN29492; Received: from umhs-mail01.missouri.edu (umhs-mail01.health.missouri.edu [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fA95JuN29373 Received: by umhs-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service(5.5.2653.19) Message-ID: edu>From: "Kling, Barry W." Subject: RE: good rod, bad rodDate: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:19:59 -0600 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)Content-Type: text/plain; Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Nov 9 01:12:02 2001 fA97C2N01980 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:12:02 -0600 ([209.178.135.246] helo=g2t8c9) id 1625pg-0003d9-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 23:12:08 -0800 Subject: A good rod It is hard in deciding what a good rod is, especially when recommending it rod and were considered fast or medium. I have to admit they are fun to fishwith. I have used so called parabolic the were wimpy and what many invisionwhat a bamboo rod is...wimpy. Then I fished with a rod that casted exactly where I wanted it. I thoughtand the rod did it without a lot of concentration. I did not have to falsecast several times to get the length of line out and it did not wimp outwhen I lift a bunch of line off the water. When a 15' cast wasneeded...done the same for a 60 cast which had to be mended in the air. Soeven though I can casted about any trout rod. A good rod for me justhappensto be a Parabolic rod. For some they are nothing but a headache. So before Irecommend a rod it is good to know what kind of rod the person can cast. Ibelieve this is key. Rods are like women... we love them all...but the ones that do what we wantare the ones we love most.LOL Adam Vigil P.S. for our lady rodmakers insert men instead of women in the above from danny.twang@pd.no Fri Nov 9 01:25:00 2001 fA97OwN02400 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:24:58 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:14:12 +0100 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:14:12 +0100 Subject: Was good rod...Now Excel I`m not familiar with MS-Excel, but when I tried to open the attached file Igot an warning the file contains macros. Is it virus, or normal with .xlsfiles? BTW There is lots of ways to post taper to the list, some a understandablesome not. Some recuires a special program and some are plain txt. What ifwetried to figure out a "standard", like using Franks interface to Hexrod, andsend the report to the list? That way we`re sure everybody got thetaper..........danny from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 9 01:40:45 2001 fA97eiN02886 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:40:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel Hi Danny,the message is to warn you that the .xls has embedded macros in order to run as it's been designed. The macro could be a virus type or not and the operating system is alerting you to this possibility. Used to be the macro would run without warning which wasn't good when it was indeed a virus.If the source is from a trusted one and you're confident it's ok just agree and go otherwise bail out until you find out about it. Tony At 08:35 AM 11/9/01 +0100, you wrote: I`m not familiar with MS-Excel, but when I tried to open the attached file Igot an warning the file contains macros. Is it virus, or normal with .xlsfiles? BTW There is lots of ways to post taper to the list, some a understandablesome not. Some recuires a special program and some are plain txt. What ifwetried to figure out a "standard", like using Franks interface to Hexrod, andsend the report to the list? That way we`re sure everybody got thetaper..........danny /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 9 01:49:03 2001 fA97n2N03358 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:49:02 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Tack Cloths With my son's employee discount at O'Rielly's, they're 47 cents each...Retail, I believe, is 99 cents. Too cheap to reuse and too cheap to nottry. later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Tack Cloths List, The brand of tack cloth that I've been using for years is known as Surgical Blue. None of the bad stuff in these. They will, if you press them onto the blank rather than wipe with them, leave a mark, but nothing that will affect the finish. On the contrary, the stuff is compatible with the finish. Theyare available from auto finishing suppliers. I get mine from a discount tool supplier. Can't remember the cost, as it has been a while since I've bought any, and I buy them by the dozen, but they're not going to break the bank. M-D from danny.twang@pd.no Fri Nov 9 01:49:59 2001 fA97nvN03533 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 01:49:57 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:39:11 +0100 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:39:11 +0100 Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel G`day Tony, I got an option to open the file without running macros, wich I did.The ol` "trusted sourch" trick isn`t fool proof, it still could be infectedwith virus.If my antivirus program gives me a warning, even on post from trustedfriends, I for sure wouldn`t open it:-) danny Hi Danny,the message is to warn you that the .xls has embedded macros in order torun as it's been designed. The macro could be a virus type or not and theoperating system is alerting you to this possibility. Used to be the macrowould run without warning which wasn't good when it was indeed a virus.If the source is from a trusted one and you're confident it's ok just agree and go otherwise bail out until you find out about it. Tony from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 9 05:44:22 2001 fA9BiLN06484 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 05:44:21 -0600 Subject: Colc Roll Steel How hard or easy is it to cut 3/4 by 3/4 cold rolled steel with ahacksaw? I just checked with a local steel supplier and it is cheaper tobuy a 20' length than to have them cut it smaller. I was thinking aboutthrowing a hacksaw in the truck as I surely don't want to haul a 20footer in the pickup. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from ccurrojr@voyager.net Fri Nov 9 06:07:10 2001 fA9C79N07167 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 06:07:09 -0600 fA9C7EI66642; Subject: Re: Colc Roll Steel Steve, babe -You can do it man!!! Just be sure to take a few MRE's with you, and water, your sleeping bag,and don't forget to kiss your wife and tell her you'll be gone for awhile. cc from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Fri Nov 9 06:25:52 2001 fA9CPqN07681 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 06:25:52 -0600 Fri, 9 Nov 2001 04:25:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Cold Roll Steel FILETIME=[AB4D3FF0:01C16919] Steve: Check with your supplier. There are several (well, many) types ofcold-rolled steel. One type has a bit of lead in the alloy and is MUCHsofter and easier to work with. It is still hard as hell and makes a goodform, but it is easier to work with if you are using hand tools. I amconfident that you could cut the stuff to fit your vehicle. Take some freshspare blades with you, as well as a clamp to make the bar hold still.Otherwise you will be there all day. The supplier would probably cut it in half for you for a small fee. Askthem. Jeff Schaeffer from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 9 06:57:35 2001 fA9CvXN08390 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 06:57:34 -0600 9 Nov 2001 07:57:35 -0500 Subject: Bret's oven I know there has been some talk on the list about Bret Reiter's oven. Irecieved mine this week, and I finally got it out to run yesterday for abit. The cabinet is built like a tank, and the unit was in great shapedespite the fact that based on the packaging, the shippier obviously bouncedit. I know it may seem like a big expense, but after a few years of using aheat gun oven and always wondering if I will create a flaming bazooka forcane, I think the oven is worth every bit. I heat treated some strips in theoven and got excellent results, more even color and that nice smell we haveheard others speak about. The thermostat is hard wired in and matched upwith my thermometer reading when I opened the door to check and put theprobe inside (the temp dropped, obviously, after a few brief moments andreturned to temp quickly afterwards). My thermometer has a short cablethatfit almost inside the closed door. I also used the oven to cure some Uracglued strips I had just done. They are now stiff as a board.Thanks, Bret. You do a very nice job on these, and I look forward to makingmany rods with this. Hope others like it as well. I added a link to thesite, hopefully you'll get some looks at your webpage.Best regards,Bob from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Nov 9 09:08:28 2001 fA9F8QN10546 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:08:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel fA9F8RN10547 Hey everyone,I like the idea of just posting the taper to the list in the standard text format.If the person posting the taper wanted,they could put the basic taper dimensionsin to hexrod and also post the rod id thatthe taper is saved as. Also it wouldbe nice to have a place to post everyone'sspreadsheets to the web, that way we couldsee how each other's run their paper work. here is a link to a sheet i've been playing with in my spare timehttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net/rodsheet6.xlsif you have excel it should just run from inside the browser thats set as default. just an ideaBrad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** BTW There is lots of ways to post taper to the list, some a understandablesome not. Some recuires a special program and some are plain txt. What ifwetried to figure out a "standard", like using Franks interface to Hexrod,andsend the report to the list? That way we`re sure everybody got thetaper..........danny from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 9 09:30:17 2001 fA9FUGN11206 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:30:16 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 9 Nov 2001 08:55:21 -0600 Subject: Passing of a friend List,I don't know how many of you hit the shows and conclaves on a regularbasis, but for those that do, you will find this of interest.Linda Foote, of Bend, Oregon, a flytier, flyfisher and definitely onefine ambassador for flyfishing around the world, died at age 44. Below is aText copy of her obituary. ***********************************************************************Linda Howland Foote of Bend died Sunday. She was 44.A memorial Service will be held.She was born Jan. 25, 1957 to Howland and Murial Foote inBristol, Conn.She was a computer technician. Ms. Foote enjoyed flyfishing.She was an international flyfisher and tied flies professionally. Shewas affiliated with the International Fly Fishing Association.Survivors include her father of Sandusky, Ohio; mother ofRedmond; two brothers, Thomas of New Britain, Conn. andWilliam of Austin, Texas; and one sister, Nancy Ledbetter ofRedmond. Memorial Contributions may be made to COBRA,1425 NW Kingston, Bend, 97701.Central Oregon Funeral Alternatives is in charge of thearrangements. ********************************************************************** Those of you that knew Linda, knew a fine person, one who struggled inlife, but never gave up. I sit here in shock of her passing. She was knownat many of the Conclaves and flyfishing shows as a very fine flytier andknown on the flyfishing chat rooms as "Fisherlady". Everyone who knew her,liked her. I counted Linda among my friends and will miss seeing hersmiling face in Montana and Idaho and the other places I travel... and therewas always a smile on her face. BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Fri Nov 9 09:50:37 2001 fA9FoaN11667 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:50:37 -0600 fA9FoQC02638 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:50:26 -0600 Subject: Re: cutting a bead in NS? On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:30:41 EST LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Grayson,Do you have any relief on the sides of this blade? Youhave a relief cut into the leading edge of the blade, you alsoneed some relief on the sides. The top of the cutter should be wider than the sides. If you know what I mean? The sides shouldtaper down, just as the front does. You may all ready have this,but I thought I'd check. just in case. Also, when you shape the top of the cutter, give that somerelief also. Grind the top with a slight down ward slope away fromthe leading edge. Make sure the cutter is sharp. Like a plane blade and centered. They sell a centering tool, that has a bubblein it like a level. It has a "V" cut into one side, that goes againstthe round stock. The other side has two steps. One for turningand one for cutting off. This part is set onto the tip of your tooland you adjust the cutter until the bubble is centered. Then youknow you are on center. I got it from MSC. It was around $45.00A good investment. Dave Dave L. http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html The sides of the bit! Oh no! They are flat and vertical! Of course they should be relieved. Why didn't I think of that? The top is flat, too. Sooner or later, beading IS going to work for me. Thanks, Dave! Sure there is bickering on the list, but the folks here are the greatest.-------- ---------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Nov 9 10:48:26 2001 fA9GmPC13877 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:48:25 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Colc Roll Steel Steve, Before purchasing the steel from a supplier that would rather not cut thestuff, you might check at a couple of local machine shops to see if theywould be willing to sell a bar to you. I had trouble getting my steel, thenI found a machinist that had some in stock. He charged me $22 for the bar(12, which seems to be a standard length) and $5 for the cut. The cut tookabout 1 and a half minutes, including set up. from my perspective, the $5was well worth it since I didn't have to spend a half hour or so cutting thestuff. Remember that a 20' piece will need two cuts, and a hack saw maynotturn them out nice and straight. My two cents. Jason PS: I don't know if you checked out the steel that is at the supplier thatyou mentioned, but my first option was a 20' bar of CRS. However, it was selling. On 11/9/01 6:45 AM, "Steve Trauthwein" wrote: How hard or easy is it to cut 3/4 by 3/4 cold rolled steel with ahacksaw? I just checked with a local steel supplier and it is cheaper tobuy a 20' length than to have them cut it smaller. I was thinking aboutthrowing a hacksaw in the truck as I surely don't want to haul a 20footer in the pickup. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Nov 9 10:52:19 2001 fA9GqEC14570 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:52:14 -0600 Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:52:23 -0500 Subject: Heating oven diameter FILETIME=[E7931730:01C1693E] Geez, notice how slow the list gets at the end of an "intense discussion?" Here's a rodmaking question. When I made my heat treating oven, I generally followed Frank N.'s plans. The main difference is his plan calls for 7" diameter heating duct, not readily available in my area. So I used standard 8". I've had problems heating it up and getting even temperatures, and I'm guessing I should have gone with 6" instead. What size did you'all use? TIA, Bill from JNL123141@msn.com Fri Nov 9 11:12:15 2001 fA9HCEC16619; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:12:16 -0800 "RodmakersPost" FILETIME=[AEBE6AB0:01C16941] SUBSCRIBE RODMAKERS John Long SUBSCRIBERODM=AKERS John Long from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Fri Nov 9 11:19:31 2001 fA9HJUC17177 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:19:31 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4168. . Clean. Processed in 0.648899 secs); 09 Nov 200117:19:38 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Subject: Heddon project rods Hello, I am putting together a list of Heddon project rods I have decided to partwith. If you are interested, please send me your email address and I willemail you the list next week when I get it done. Reply off list. image uploads is welcome at http://www.OldTackle.com Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C Effort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com http://www.OldTackle.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net mstevens@oldtackle.com Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles from RHOLDER@SMURFIT.COM Fri Nov 9 11:20:39 2001 fA9HKcC17394 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:20:38 -0600 id ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:34:26 -0600 Subject: Speedy Recovery Everyone, Thought that I would drop a small note about one of our own list members,today Tony Spezio ( flytyr@southshore.com )is going in for knee surgery. We all know him very well and he has alsocontributed so much to the list freely. He will be out of commission forsome time while he is recovering and doing therapy to rebuild the strengthin his knee. So please, will everyone join me and give Tony our support,thoughts, and prayers for a speedy recovery in this difficult time for him. ThanksRobert H.Work email: rholder@smurfit.com Home email:b2g@jps.net > from caneman@clnk.com Fri Nov 911:21:15 2001 fA9HLFC17558 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:21:15 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:46:20 -0600 Subject: Passing of a friend I sent this out once this morning, but it never showed up on the list.Thought I'd send it again, as I know some of you would like to know aboutthis. List,I don't know how many of you hit the shows and conclaves on a regularbasis, but for those that do, you will find this of interest.Linda Foote, of Bend, Oregon, a flytier, flyfisher and definitely onefine ambassador for flyfishing around the world, died at age 44. Below is a Text copy of her obituary. ***********************************************************************Linda Howland Foote of Bend died Sunday. She was 44.A memorial Service will be held.She was born Jan. 25, 1957 to Howland and Murial Foote inBristol, Conn.She was a computer technician. Ms. Foote enjoyed flyfishing.She was an international flyfisher and tied flies professionally. Shewas affiliated with the International Fly Fishing Association.Survivors include her father of Sandusky, Ohio; mother ofRedmond; two brothers, Thomas of New Britain, Conn. andWilliam of Austin, Texas; and one sister, Nancy Ledbetter ofRedmond. Memorial Contributions may be made to COBRA,1425 NW Kingston, Bend, 97701.Central Oregon Funeral Alternatives is in charge of thearrangements. ********************************************************************** Those of you that knew Linda, knew a fine person, one who struggled inlife, but never gave up. I sit here in shock of her passing. She was known at many of the Conclaves and flyfishing shows as a very fine flytier andknown on the flyfishing chat rooms as "Fisherlady". Everyone who knew her, liked her. I counted Linda among my friends and will miss seeing hersmiling face in Montana and Idaho and the other places I travel... and there was always a smile on her face. BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Nov 9 11:28:47 2001 fA9HSkC18288 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:28:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter Hi Bill, I've been using 6" and it has been working fine for me. John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heating oven diameter Geez, notice how slow the list gets at the end of an "intense discussion?" Here's a rodmaking question. When I made my heat treating oven, I generally followed Frank N.'s plans.The main difference is his plan calls for 7" diameter heating duct, notreadily available in my area. So I used standard 8". I've had problems heating it up and getting even temperatures, and I'mguessing I should have gone with 6" instead. What size did you'all use? TIA, Bill from ECKTOR_66@YAHOO.COM Fri Nov 9 11:55:45 2001 fA9HtjC19830 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:55:45 -0600 09 Nov 2001 09:55:52 PST Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter If I recall correctly, I used a 5" diameter galvanizedduct for the exterior and 3" for the interior tube. Ifound both at my local home improvement megawarehouse. Using a dual probe Fluke temperature meter, I foundthat I got to a stable temperature in about 10 minutes(measured at the bottom and top of the interior tube). Eck snip/snip The main difference is his plan calls for 7"diameter heating duct, not readily available in my area. So I used standard 8". __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from beadman@mac.com Fri Nov 9 12:57:07 2001 fA9Iv7C22489 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:57:07 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:57:01 -0500 Subject: Heating ovens Bill Hoy's question about Heating oven diameter caused me to start thinking and wondering (always dangerous! ) about oven construction. Most of the comments and plans I've seen for horizontal ovens have an opening at one end for the heat gun, another air. I also read about having to stop the process and flip the strips end for end to achieve even heating of both ends. What about making the oven so it has the openings at BOTH ends, with a simple cap over the end not in use. You would start cooking the cane as you do now, but halfway through, instead of stopping, removing the cane from the hot oven and flipping it, all you did was to put a cover over the end you've been using, move to the other end, remove that cover, and turn the heat gun back on. During the few seconds it takes to move the gun, the temperature in the oven shouldn't drop appreciably, and there'd be no need to flip strips, as the heat source flipped instead... Would this work, or is there another reason to stop halfway and flip the strips? Claude from peterharbottle@hotmail.com Fri Nov 9 14:58:31 2001 fA9KwUC28074 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 14:58:30 -0600 Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:58:25 -0800 Fri, 09 Nov 2001 20:58:25 GMT Subject: UK sources of bamboo FILETIME=[468FD4E0:01C16961] Peter Try the Centre Cane Company, Unit 16 Shakletons,Rectory Estate,Ongar Essex CM5 9AT.Can't find the 'phone number at the moment, but the last cane I bought from them in August cost £68 + VAT for ten culms. Peter Harbottle _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 9 15:28:55 2001 fA9LSsC29633 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:28:54 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:28:53 -0500 Subject: REC order One person has not sent their check yet and to be fair to the rest of the guys I am just going to cancel his part of the order and get this sent to REC. The order is already pulled and they should ship to me early next week and I would figure by next Friday or the following Monday I should have everything in my hands ready to repackage and send out to everyone. AAAAHHH the fun of group orders(:-). LOL.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) One person has not sent their check yet and to be fair to therest of the guys I am just going to cancel his part of the order and get this early next week and I would figure by next Friday or the following Monday Ishould have everything in my hands ready to repackage and send out to Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 9 15:34:12 2001 fA9LYCC00168 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:34:12 -0600 ;Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:34:09 +0000 Subject: Re: Hyrocrisy I also agree with you Brian in that some on this list have very short =fuses and can't handle the heat. Jack this list have very short fuses and can't handle the heat. Jack from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Nov 9 16:04:21 2001 fA9M4KC01738 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:04:20 -0600 Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:04:30 -0500 Subject: Heating Ovens FILETIME=[81A8AE90:01C1696A] Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about heating oven diameters. Seems that 6" is the way to go. bill from iank@ts.co.nz Fri Nov 9 16:15:38 2001 fA9MFaC02571 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:15:36 -0600 by sage.ts.co.nz (8.11.3/8.11.3) id fA9MHn103920; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:17:49 +1300 using -f Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter Bill, I had a similar problem when I first built my oven . Insulation helped but thechange that made the biggest inprovement was adding another pipe , about 1 1/2 inches in diameter which went from the top of the oven toabout 9 inches off the bottom. I then put the heat gun into the top of that pipe and the result is that the hot air is "delivered" near thebottom of the oven rather then at the top. This results in a much more even heat in the oven.With this additional pipe I only get about 10 degrees difference between thetop and the bottom of the oven. I have some diagrams of this setup on my home computor but are away fromat the moment so cannot access them. If you want them let me know and I can send them late next week. Ian Geez, notice how slow the list gets at the end of an "intense discussion?" I've had problems heating it up and getting even temperatures, and I'm guessing I should have gone with 6" instead. What size did you'all use? TIA, Bill -- Tasman Solutions Ltd. Real People in Cyber Space http://www.ts.co.nz from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Nov 9 16:32:08 2001 Received: from RAA02242; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:31:29 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: Hyrocrisy flyfish@defnet.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This didn't realize we were here to see who could take the heat. I = thought wewere here to share our rodmaking experiences. :)) It's not a contest to me.Oh but maybe you weren't referring to me? Kind = of hard to tell with all the Friday, November 09, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Hyrocrisy I also agree withyou Brian in that some on this list have very short = fuses and can't handle printable net.com ; fiveside@net-gate.com ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Fri Nov 9 16:35:38 2001 Received: from mail50.fg.online.no (mail50- XAA28803 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 23:35:38+0100 (MET) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 23:35:37 +0100 Subject: Re: Message-ID: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN It won`t take long, he`ll bestanding in the river this weekend and have a go with the stick. Rememberlast time he had a (hand) surgery, he made a rod from planning to gluing withone hand still in casting!! He's a stuborn hard nail:- ) danny Thought that I would drop a small note about one of our own list members,today Tony Spezio ( flytyr@southshore.com)is going in for knee surgery. We all know him very well and he has alsocontributed so much to the list freely. He will be out of commission forsome time while he is recovering and doing therapy to rebuild the strengthin his knee. So please, will everyone join me and give Tony our support,thoughts, and prayers for a speedy recovery in this difficult time for him. ThanksRobert H.Work email: rholder@smurfit.com Home email: b2g@jps.net from JNL123141@msn.com Fri Nov 9 17:07:06 2001 fA9N75C05146 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:07:05 -0600 Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:07:07 -0800 Subject: Waara node press FILETIME=[41138B80:01C16973] I have sold a number of Waara node presses. The response was greater tha=n I expected and I also have had a number of questions about using it. I=have been using mine so long I guess I took for granted no questions wou=ld be asked.I have prepared a description of its features some instructions for its u=se. If you would like a copy, contact me off the list and I will send on=e to you. Thanks. (not trying abuse the list privileges) John Long I have solda = expec= e been using mine so long I guess I took for granted no questions would b=e asked. I have prepared a description of its features some in= Long= from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 9 18:53:08 2001 fAA0r8C07766 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:53:08 -0600 ;Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:53:07 +0000 , Subject: Re: Hyrocrisy I didn't think I addressed that to you but if the shoe fits wear it. Jack I didn't think I addressed that to you = shoe fits wear it. Jack from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Nov 9 19:09:24 2001 fAA19NC08344 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 19:09:23 -0600 Fri, 9 Nov 2001 20:09:12 -0500 , Subject: Re: Hyrocrisy Oh I'm sorry, who were you addressing then when you said"Some on the list". Please tell usI figured since I was involved in this thread you were referring to me. =Thank you for clearing that up. Boy is it hot in here or is it just me:)) LOL Subject: Re: Hyrocrisy I didn't think I addressed that to you but if the shoe fits wear it. Jack Oh I'm sorry, who were you addressing= you said"Some on the list". Please tell =us involved = thread you were referring to me. Thank you for clearing that =up. Boy is it hot in here or is it just = LOL ----- Original Message ----- Jacques Follweiler rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Hyrocrisy I didn't think I addressed that to = shoe fits wear it. Jack from robertgkope@home.com Fri Nov 9 19:57:19 2001 fAA1vIC09835 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 19:57:18 -0600 femail34.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:57:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Colc Roll Steel It shouldn't take more than 5 or 10 minutes to cut with a hacksaw. When Ibought mine, the supplier cut the 12' bar into equal halves for free, butone half was a little more equal than the other. I cut the longer one tolength with a dull blade and I only had to stop to rest a couple of times. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: Colc Roll Steel How hard or easy is it to cut 3/4 by 3/4 cold rolled steel with ahacksaw? I just checked with a local steel supplier and it is cheaper tobuy a 20' length than to have them cut it smaller. I was thinking aboutthrowing a hacksaw in the truck as I surely don't want to haul a 20footer in the pickup. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from robertgkope@home.com Fri Nov 9 20:08:05 2001 fAA284C10329 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 20:08:04 -0600 femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:08:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter I used a 4" duct inside of a 6" duct with 1" of insulation all around and an8" duct encasing the whole thing. I use it vertically so hot air goes downinside the 6" tube and comes up in the 4" tube. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heating oven diameter What size did you'all use? TIA, Bill from lblan@provide.net Fri Nov 9 21:24:33 2001 fAA3OWC15017 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:24:32 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:24:38 -0500 Subject: RE: Was good rod...Now Excel A far better way to do this would be to put up the numbers in Frank's onlineversion, save the results, and post the saved rod name to the list. Noattachments necessary, no one need fret over opening a file, etc... Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 2:36 AM Subject: Was good rod...Now Excel I`m not familiar with MS-Excel, but when I tried to open theattached file Igot an warning the file contains macros. Is it virus, or normal with .xlsfiles? BTW There is lots of ways to post taper to the list, some a understandablesome not. Some recuires a special program and some are plain txt.What if wetried to figure out a "standard", like using Franks interface toHexrod, andsend the report to the list? That way we`re sure everybody got thetaper..........danny from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 9 21:30:59 2001 fAA3UxC15666 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:30:59 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:31:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel Not to mention that everyone could download it and print it at theirleisure, or not.Excellent idea, Danny and Larry. M-D A far better way to do this would be to put up the numbers in Frank's online version, save the results, and post the saved rod name to the list. Noattachments necessary, no one need fret over opening a file, etc... Larry Blan from Danny T. What if wetried to figure out a "standard", like using Franks interface toHexrod, andsend the report to the list? That way we`re sure everybody got thetaper..........danny from lblan@provide.net Fri Nov 9 21:44:00 2001 fAA3hxC16783 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:43:59 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:44:06 -0500 Subject: RE: Perspective on Plane blades and so forth The idea that there is some nefarious list culture fostered by a small group of insiders is ridiculous.Barry Actually, there is a grain of truth to this. The list *was* started by asmall group of "insiders". The nefarious culture of the list is and has beenthe sharing of information. As with anything in life, if information isshared, there will be people who do not agree with one or more of theviewpoints - how this is handled determines the overall "climate" of thelist. Some lists do it a bit better than others. Larry Blan from ldavis@coweblink.net Fri Nov 9 22:16:40 2001 fAA4GdC18235 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:16:39 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 20:57:22 -0700 MST Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel Not to mention that everyone could download it and print it at theirleisure, or not.Excellent idea, Danny and Larry. M-D A far better way to do this would be to put up the numbers in Frank's online version, save the results, and post the saved rod name to the list. Noattachments necessary, no one need fret over opening a file, etc... Larry Blan Good idea, but those results are only saved for 3 days. Right Frank? Lowell Davis from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Nov 9 22:45:19 2001 fAA4jIC18828 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:45:18 -0600 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 23:45:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel Sorry folks, being a newbie to the list I didn't realize attachments were verboten... I uploaded the file to members.aol.com/kyledruey/ppp.xls if you want to take a peek at that stress curve. Does anyone have insights on this Phillipson PowerPakt stress curve/taper that they could share with me? Similar to a Para 15? Thanks, Kyle In a message dated 11/09/2001 7:36:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: Not to mention that everyone could download it and print it at theirleisure, or not.Excellent idea, Danny and Larry.M-DFrom: "Larry Blan" A far better way to do this would be to put up the numbers in Frank'sonlineversion, save the results, and post the saved rod name to the list. Noattachments necessary, no one need fret over opening a file, etc... Larry Blan from Danny T.What if wetried to figure out a "standard", like using Franks interface toHexrod, andsend the report to the list? That way we`re sure everybody got thetaper..........danny ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-st05.mail.aol.com (rly-st05.mail.aol.com Fri, 09 Nov 2001 22:36:49 -0500Received: from rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com rly- Fri, 09 Nov 2001 22:31:25 -0500 fAA3VEC15703; Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207. fAA3UxC15666 Received: from default (209-128-150-142.dial-up.ipa.net Message-ID: From: "Jojo DeLancier" References: Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now ExcelDate: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:21:12 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from saweiss@flash.net Fri Nov 9 23:02:35 2001 fAA52YC19372 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 23:02:34 -0600 fAA52dO267036; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:02:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter Organization: Prodigy Internet What size did you'all use? I use 6", then covered it with isulation and a piece of 8" pipe around that.It heats very well, getting over 400Ÿ in a test run.Steve from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Nov 9 23:22:41 2001 fAA5MeC19896 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 23:22:40 -0600 ([209.178.135.149] helo=g2t8c9) id 162QbP-0003NZ-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 21:22:47 -0800 Subject: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons Hi all, Terry Ackland has unsubscribed from the list. I had sent him a email showinghim JW's Finishing Beveller. He told me it look very well made. That is abig compliment from Terry. Anyway, we all were hammering Terry hard aboutplaning irons and I still know Hocks perform better but he contacted StanleyU.K. and below is the email response. I had to delete about 20 lines of email routing stuff but here it is for thearchives. The composition of Stanley Plane Irons. Terence,Thanks for your enquiry to our web site. I hope the answer settles yourargument amicably, here it is : AISI A2 is a medium alloy, air hardening, cold work, chrome molybdenum toolsteel, it's nominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.00%Molybdenum 1.00%Chromium 5.00%Other elements trace levels Stanley block plane irons are made from hot rolled high carbon steel, it'snominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.25%Manganese 0.3%Silicon 0.22%Chromium 0.2%Nickel 0.25 maxSulphur 0.015% maxPhosphorous 0.02% maxOther elements trace levels Best regards Barrie BARRIE C GOSTELOWManager - Global Quality Assurance& European PackagingSTANLEY UK SERVICES LIMITEDWoodside, Sheffield, S3 9PD, England.Phone Direct : +44 (0)114 282 2018Mobile : +44 (0)7767 233739Fax Direct : +44 (0)114 291 7294E-mail : bgostelow@stanleyworks.com -----Original Message----- Subject: inquiry - Email from Stanley web site: Would you please settle a heated argument about the steel used in aStanley block plane iron. I have about 4 of them and I was told the steelwas A-2. I say it is carbon steel without much chrome if any. Who isright? Thanks Customer e-mail address:hexagon@odyssee.net Terence Ackland from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Nov 10 07:39:02 2001 fAADd1C24593 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 07:39:01 - Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel Hi Kyle, The stress curve for the powerpacked looks a lot like a Granger from theWright McGill era. This is not at all sup- rising, since Bill Phillipsonwas the rodmaker at Granger and then at Wright McGill. This is the type oftaper I really love. It works well from the tip and shifts gears smoothlyas you begin to lengthen your cast. Most people like this action but somemight find it too "parabolic." I have a W&M Granger Aristocrat 8'6" withwhich a competent caster (better than I) cast a 4/5 Triangle Taper andabout 5' of backing consistently [:-)] -Doug At 11:45 PM 11/9/2001 EST, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Sorry folks, being a newbie to the list I didn't realize attachments were verboten... I uploaded the file to members.aol.com/kyledruey/ppp.xls if you want to take a peek at that stress curve. Does anyone have insights on this Phillipson PowerPakt stress curve/taper that they could share with me? Similar to a Para 15? Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from beadman@mac.com Sat Nov 10 08:44:45 2001 fAAEiiH27002 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:44:44 - Subject: Re: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons At 9:21 PM -0800 , 11/9/01, Adam Vigil wrote about Composition of Stanley Planing Irons AISI A2 is a medium alloy, air hardening, cold work, chrome molybdenum toolsteel, it's nominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.00%Molybdenum 1.00%Chromium 5.00%Other elements trace levels Stanley block plane irons are made from hot rolled high carbon steel, it'snominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.25%Manganese 0.3%Silicon 0.22%Chromium 0.2%Nickel 0.25 maxSulphur 0.015% maxPhosphorous 0.02% maxOther elements trace levels Would anyone know what the composition of power hack saw blades is? from what I've seen, the stuff is not only very hard, but also very tough - would it make a good plane iron? Claude from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Nov 10 08:59:59 2001 fAAExwH27453 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:59:58 - JAA31032 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel Yes, its 3 days. That's not a number I can easily adjust. Thecomputer system has permanent files and temporary files and the temporary files are removed after 3 days.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Lowell Davis wrote: A far better way to do this would be to put up the numbers in Frank's online version, save the results, and post the saved rod name to the list. Noattachments necessary, no one need fret over opening a file, etc... Larry Blan Good idea, but those results are only saved for 3 days. Right Frank? Lowell Davis from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 10 09:16:48 2001 fAAFGlH27913 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:16:47 - fAAFGr829795 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:16:53 -0600 Subject: Archives How do I get to the Archives.Thanks Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from rextutor@about.com Sat Nov 10 09:29:49 2001 fAAFTmH28261 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:29:48 - (NPlex 5.5.029) "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Archives http://www.uwm.edu/%7Estetzer/rma/rmsearch.htmlgo to the above URL to search the archives- instructions are there Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from tsimmons78@home.com Sat Nov 10 09:48:37 2001 fAAFmaH28735 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:48:36 - Subject: SRG 2001 - Hat Recently I was advised by my wife that my favorite hat was no longer =acceptable and I could no longer wear it in public. At it SRG 2001 =there was a hat in the silent auction, which had the symbol for bamboo =on the front of the hat. Can anyone advise where these hats can be =purchased? Thanks, Tom Simmons Recently I was advised by my wife that= hat was no longer acceptable and I could no longer wear it in = it SRG 2001 there was a hat in the silent auction, which had the symbol = = purchased? Thanks, TomSimmons from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 10 09:49:17 2001 fAAFnHH28840 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:49:17 - fAAFnO801107 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:49:24 -0600 Subject: Toggle Clamps Can someone send me the Phone # and part # for theNolan Toggle clamps.My D finger went too fast.As a side note.My surgery went real well. Thanks to all that sentmessages.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 10 09:53:36 2001 fAAFrZH29374 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:53:35 - Subject: Update cold rolled steel Hello All, The bars are in there proper lengths now. I clamped them together on theworkbench with some blocks under them, scored my cut line and sprayedthem occaisionally with some silicone spray that is meant for ourtreadmill (finally got some use from that stuff). It took eleven minutes from the first pull to parting. Used a new 18tpi hacksaw blade. Shouldbe no problem for anyone who wants to do this in the future. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 10 09:59:34 2001 fAAFxXH29741 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:59:33 - Subject: Stanley irons.TA The stats comparing the Stanly irons with A2 were the best parting shotsTA has ever made that I've seen but the stats don't achieve anything apart from telling what was already known. A2 composition showing 5% chrome was posted last week, we already knew Stanley are using tool steel. That's why I made the point the steel isn't the whole issue and mentioned the Toyota coils springs, you can make tools from a lot of different steels.True the A2 has chrome and the Stanley std iron does not. A2 also has moly and std irons don't. The metallurgists of the list would know the significance of that. Presumably this does ask the question of the thought chrome chipping from the edge may not be the problem it's always been thought to be or maybe the moly helps here?What TA and or Stanley hasn't told is what the std iron is heat treated to and how far down from the edge is it tempered? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from martinrjensen@home.com Sat Nov 10 10:12:59 2001 fAAGCwH00503 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:12:58 - femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:13:00 -0800 Subject: RE: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons Where would you find hack saw blades that were thick enough? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons At 9:21 PM -0800 , 11/9/01, Adam Vigil wrote about Composition of Stanley Planing Irons AISI A2 is a medium alloy, air hardening, cold work, chrome molybdenum tool steel, it's nominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.00%Molybdenum 1.00%Chromium 5.00%Other elements trace levels Stanley block plane irons are made from hot rolled high carbon steel, it's nominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.25%Manganese 0.3%Silicon 0.22%Chromium 0.2%Nickel 0.25 maxSulphur 0.015% maxPhosphorous 0.02% maxOther elements trace levels Would anyone know what the composition of power hack saw blades is? from what I've seen, the stuff is not only very hard, but also very tough - would it make a good plane iron? Claude from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 10 10:16:23 2001 fAAGGMH00789 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:16:22 -0600 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:16:21 -0500 Subject: Re: SRG 2001 - Hat Hey, Tom. Hope you enjoyed SRG. Roy Hawk had those hats. I figure you'll = Those are nice hats. M-D At SRG 2001 there was a hat in the silent auction, which had the =symbol for bamboo on the front of the hat. Can anyone advise where =these hats can be purchased? Thanks, Tom Simmons Hey, Tom. Hope you = Hawk had those hats. I figure you'll hear from him, but his e-mail is royh@icx.net hats. M-D Tom = At SRG 2001 there was a hat in the = auction, which had the symbol for bamboo on the front of the = anyone advise where these hats can be purchased? Thanks, Tom =Simmons from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 10 10:23:15 2001 fAAGNFH01191 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:23:15 - for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:23:18 - Subject: Re: Was good rod...Now Excel Shouldn't three days be long enough for whomever to retrieve the taper ifthey wanted to do so? It might be a problem for those who postponed theList M-D Yes, its 3 days. That's not a number I can easily adjust. Thecomputer system has permanent files and temporary files and thetemporary files are removed after 3 days. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Lowell Davis wrote: Good idea, but those results are only saved for 3 days. Right Frank? Lowell Davis from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Nov 10 10:31:30 2001 fAAGVTH01643 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:31:29 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: United upgrades I have some United system wide upgrades (good anywhere United flies) that must be used by March. I won't be using them. If someone has a need, contact me offlist.-- Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >Fromjerryy@webtv.net Sat Nov 10 11:13:15 2001 Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105- 1.iap.bryant.webtv.net 144.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-144.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA15981; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:13:17 - ETAsAhRDjrF3OInlKIIeOIg/5SAme/icywIUG5CJS8qGJWYowI9ccWT4pxAxdNs= jerryy@webtv.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Iknow the world changed after 9-11 but I have run into something I thinkpeople should be aware of. Last week I bought a Heddon tip off of Ebay andlike always have asked it to be shipped in a sturdy tube. If they didn't haveone I would forward one. Use the tubes that my nickle silver bar is shipped tome by motor freight. They are very sturdy and about 3/8" thick. Alsoforwarded, different time and different post office, two tubes to otherpeople who could forward rods to me for refinishing. All three tubes werebroken in half. The people tell me there were marks on the tubes where theywere forced. Resent PVC tubes by Fedex and they got through OK. One ofour local businesses got a postal package with a hole through the box and theexplanation was that it was pierced with a steel bar so the sniffer dogs couldcheck it. Unfortunatly it was full of electronic circuit boards. Any one elserun into this? Jerry Young > from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Nov 10 11:24:58 fAAHOvH03040 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 2001 12:25:02 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Tony Miller" flyfish@defnet.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This Nothing so far ,but I ship in PVC for rods. All other packages have arrived my stuff out in. I've had at least 6 packages coming and going this weekalone. No damage to any of them yet. (cross my fingers) :)) I might startinsuring packages, that would be my be suggestion. I do insure rods. I wouldimagine the post office is paying out on alot = of claims lately.:)) Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ------ BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT } rods. All other packages have arrived OK, But I send all my stuff out in. I've had at least 6 packages coming andgoing this week = alone. No damage to any of them yet. (crossmy fingers) :)) I might start insuring packages, that would bemy be = suggestion. I do insure rods. I would imagine the post Miller www.homestead.com/= bambooshop/home.html - lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Nov 10 11:32:42 2001 Received: from X-Mailer: CalypsoVersion 3.30.00.00 (3) Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:32:06 - 0600 From: "Brad beadman@mac.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Composition Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Someof the blades are made from S7 tool steel, others are made from M serieshigh speed steel. Starrett, Lenox, and Sandvik all make blades that would bethick enough. The secret would be to find a shop that still has a large Marvelpower hack saw that you could get the blades off of. If you are friendly witha local industrial supplier, ask them if they have any customers that arebuying the blades. Then approach the shops and see if they would sell you thedulled blades for scrap rate. I still have a few .06 thick blades but nothingthick enough to make a plane blade out of. Brad *********** REPLYSEPARATOR *********** On 11/10/01 at 8:12 AM Martin Jensen wrote: Where would you find hack saw blades that were thick enough? from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 10 11:39:41 2001 fAAHdfH03776 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:39:41 - fAAHdl814925 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:39:47 -0600 Subject: Re: U.S.P.S. damage When I was making those other kind of rods I had some problems with UPS.,Two different times there were TIRE Marks on the crushed tubes. Still havenot collected.I have had it with UPS.I also had one crushed sent Priority Mail that was crushed in the middle.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jerry Young wrote: I know the world changed after 9-11 but I have run into something Ithink people should be aware of. Last week I bought a Heddon tip off ofEbay and like always have asked it to be shipped in a sturdy tube. Ifthey didn't have one I would forward one. Use the tubes that my nicklesilver bar is shipped to me by motor freight. They are very sturdy andabout 3/8" thick. Also forwarded, different time and different postoffice, two tubes to other people who could forward rods to me forrefinishing. All three tubes were broken in half. The people tell methere were marks on the tubes where they were forced.Resent PVC tubes by Fedex and they got through OK.One of our local businesses got a postal package with a hole through thebox and the explanation was that it was pierced with a steel bar so thesniffer dogs could check it. Unfortunatly it was full of electroniccircuit boards.Any one else run into this? Jerry Young from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Nov 10 11:53:04 2001 fAAHr3H04215 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:53:03 - Subject: Don Burns rodwrapp@swbell.net Don contact me off list please.Bret(www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) Don contact me off list please.Bret(www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from cw@vanion.com Sat Nov 10 12:00:40 2001 fAAI0ZH04588 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:00:35 - for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:05:14 - Subject: Nolan Supply www.nolansupply.com 800-736-2204 Amtos clamping device #52-152- 6S300# = = from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Nov 10 12:06:30 2001 fAAI6TH04975 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:06:29 - for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:06:33 - Subject: Re: U.S.P.S. damage I'm not sure what exactly happened, at first I attributed to a deranged customer, but I got a rod back that I had sent to England with the male ferrules crushed by what looks like a heavy pair of pliers from the serration marks left, and the handle and reel seat drilled through. I guess the lesson to be learned here is insure your rods for everything they are worth if you are sending them overseas.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/10/01 9:43:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, flytyr@southshore.com writes: When I was making those other kind of rods I had some problems with UPS.,Two different times there were TIRE Marks on the crushed tubes. Still havenot collected.I have had it with UPS.I also had one crushed sent Priority Mail that was crushed in the middle.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com I'm not sure what exactly happened, at first I attributed to a derangedcustomer, but I got a rod back that I had sent to England with the maleferrules crushed by what looks like a heavy pair of pliers from the serrationmarks left, and the handle and reel seat drilled through. I guess the lesson tobe learned here is insure your rods for everything they are worth if you aresending them overseas.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/10/01 9:43:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,flytyr@southshore.com writes:When I was makingthose other kind of rods I had some problems with UPS.,Two different times there were TIRE Marks on the crushed tubes. Stillhavenot collected.I have had it with UPS.I also had one crushed sent Priority Mail that was crushed in the middle. from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Nov 10 12:28:42 2001 fAAISgH05631 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:28:42 - Subject: Re: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons I have a blade made from a power hacksaw blade by a toolmaker friend. Hetells me its high speed steel. Its extremely hard wearing. I recentlyrough planed 24 splines (butt, mid, 2 tips) without resharpening. from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 10 17:01:36 2001 fAAN1aH09909 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:01:36 - Subject: vixen file/mls Does anyone have a source for a vixen file or the mls catalog? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Nov 10 17:13:26 2001 fAANDPH10318 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:13:25 - (authenticated) Sat, 10 Nov 2001 15:13:09 -0800 Subject: Re: vixen file/mls Steve, Several guys at SRG mentioned finding Vixen files, cheap, atGrizzly Imports. There's a link on Rodmakers. Best,Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: Does anyone have a source for a vixen file or the mls catalog? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from cw@vanion.com Sat Nov 10 17:43:54 2001 fAANhsH11100 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:43:54 - for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:48:43 - Subject: Grizzly Industrial-vixen file Is the vixen file the curved contour file? Grizzly # G7792Also of interest: Tack Cloth-wax & silicon free #G3003& Razor Saw - ex fine 60 TPI .008 thick - works great for cutting tips. =#H2211 Chad Is the vixen file the curved contour file? Grizzly # = G7792Also of interest: Tack Cloth-wax & silicon #G3003 = great for cutting tips. #H2211 Chad from jfoster@sunset.net Sat Nov 10 18:46:11 2001 fAB0kAH12008 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:46:10 - fAB0kBE4025098 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:46:12 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011022 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Archives Just a note to let everyone know that the Rodmakers archive files are not in jeopardy.. Frank keeps his own archives separately and it was he who was voicing future possible concerns. it would be a shame to loose his resource for subject look-ups.. regards jerry from oandc@email.msn.com Sat Nov 10 18:54:53 2001 fAB0sqH12352 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:54:52 - Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:54:08 -0800 Subject: Email problems FILETIME=[5E9EEE50:01C16A4B] Is anyone out there an expert on email difficulties? About a week ago Istopped receiving mail from rodmakers. I unsubscribed, and resubscribedseveral times. I uninstalled my virus scanner, selected text only foroutgoing mail to insure, theoretically, that I wasn't sending embedded HTML,checked my modem, emailed others, and finally yesterday, I fdisked myharddrive and reinstalled all software. Still not receiving mail from thelist. The server is receiving my mail as I'm getting conformation. Thinkingback, this started about the time Microslop enacted it's server securitychanges. I am receiving mail from others. I'm running (not for much longer)Outlook Express. Is any one else having these difficulties? Please respondoff list, as I doubt I'll get it otherwise. Thanks in advance for any input.Wayne from boyko@peoplepc.com Sat Nov 10 19:30:48 2001 fAB1UlH13083 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 19:30:47 - 0800 -0800 Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter Hi Ian, I am in the proces of building my oven also, do you mind e-mailingme a copy of your plans also, Lew boyko@peoplepc.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter Bill, I had a similar problem when I first built my oven . Insulation helped but the change that made the biggest inprovement was adding another pipe , about 1 1/2 inches in diameter which went from the top of the oven to about 9 inches off the bottom. I then put the heat gun into the top of that pipe and the result is that the hot air is "delivered" near the bottom of the oven rather then at the top. This results in a much more even heat in the oven.With this additional pipe I only get about 10 degrees difference between the top and the bottom of the oven. I have some diagrams of this setup on my home computor but are awayfrom at the moment so cannot access them. If you want them let me know and I can send them late next week. Ian Geez, notice how slow the list gets at the end of an "intense discussion?" I've had problems heating it up and getting even temperatures, and I'mguessing I should have gone with 6" instead. What size did you'all use? TIA, Bill --Tasman Solutions Ltd.Real People in Cyber Spacehttp://www.ts.co.nz from oandc@email.msn.com Sat Nov 10 22:11:48 2001 fAB4BlH15628 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:11:47 - Sat, 10 Nov 2001 20:11:02 -0800 Subject: Mail FILETIME=[E0831520:01C16A66] test from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Nov 10 22:48:23 2001 fAB4mNH16270 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:48:23 - for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:48:29 - Subject: Plane setup 101 I am getting private emails asking basic plane questions, I guess some guys don't want to ask seemingly stupid questions on the list. I don't profess to be an expert on planes so I thought I might bring these questions out to be discussed. On a block plane like the Stanley 9 1/2 - a block plane - the bevel goes up. The slots have to engage the depth adjustment mechanism, so slots aredown. Since the bevel is up, the angle the blade is sharpened at does affect the cutting action. A shallow angle (20 degrees is shallow, 40 degrees is steep) will produce more lift and chips. A steeper angle produces a stronger edge - more metal at the edge. I sharpen my plane blades at 40 degrees. Bench planes aren't generally used by rod makers, but I have started using a small bench plane to rough out my strips - less wear on my Morgan handmill.A bench plane will take a lot of bamboo off in one pass and is perfect for roughing. I also use a quick clamp to hold down the end of the strip so that I can use two hands on the plane and go down the entire length in one pass. A bench plane has something a block plane does not have - a chip breaker. It is held tight against the blade with a large head screw. On a bench plane the bevel goes down, chip breaker on top. The angle of the bevel does not affect the cutting action, but the distance the chip breaker is from the edge does. Get as close to the edge as you can and still have the blade cut efficiently. The Stanley No.3 or No.4 sizes are good for roughing. The No.3 is smaller. I do groove my bench planes also. You can use a properly set up bench plane until you are fairly close to final dimensions, needing your block plane for only a few passes. The absolute best way to sharpen a plane blade is to sharpen as best you can with whatever method you are used to, and then polish the back and bevelwith diamond compound on a leather or hard felt wheel. I thought I had a sharp blade using a waterstone but the diamond compound sharpened the blades an order of magnitude sharper. I use 14,000 mesh diamond compound. I'll stick my neck out and say an absolutely dead flat plane sole isn't neccessary for rodmaking, but some people will swear it is. It doesn't hurt anything. Darryl Hayashida I am getting private emails asking basic plane questions, I guess some guysdon't want to ask seemingly stupid questions on the list. I don't profess to bean expert on planes so I thought I might bring these questions out to bediscussed. On a block plane like the Stanley 9 1/2 - a block plane - the bevel goes up.The slots have to engage the depth adjustment mechanism, so slots aredown. Since the bevel is up, the angle the blade is sharpened at does affectthe cutting action. A shallow angle (20 degrees is shallow, 40 degrees issteep) will produce more lift and chips. A steeper angle produces a strongeredge - more metal at the edge. I sharpen my plane blades at 40degrees. Bench planes aren't generally used by rod makers, but I have started using asmall bench plane to rough out my strips - less wear on my Morgan handmill.A bench plane will take a lot of bamboo off in one pass and is perfect forroughing. I also use a quick clamp to hold down the end of the strip so that Ican use two hands on the plane and go down the entire length in one pass. Abench plane has something a block plane does not have - a chip breaker. It isheld tight against the blade with a large head screw. On a bench plane thebevel goes down, chip breaker on top. The angle of the bevel does not affectthe cutting action, but the distance the chip breaker is from the edge does.Get as close to the edge as you can and still have the blade cut efficiently.The Stanley No.3 or No.4 sizes are good for roughing. The No.3 is smaller. Ido groove my bench planes also. You can use a properly set up bench planeuntil you are fairly close to final dimensions, needing your block plane! The absolute best way to sharpen a plane blade is to sharpen as best you canwith whatever method you are used to, and then polish the back and bevelwith diamond compound on a leather or hard felt wheel. I thought I had asharp blade using a waterstone but the diamond compound sharpened theblades an order of magnitude sharper. I use 14,000 mesh diamondcompound. I'll stick my neck out and say an absolutely dead flat plane sole isn'tneccessary for rodmaking, but some people will swear it is. It doesn't hurtanything. Darryl Hayashida from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Nov 10 22:58:18 2001 fAB4wHH16627 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:58:17 - ([209.178.134.211] helo=g2t8c9) id 162mhM-0000uP-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 20:58:24 -0800 Subject: Cheap metal splicing block It seems the list is slow today or I am not recieving post. Well instead ofsending a test let me tell you about a project I have been working on. When making nodeless rods a splicing block is needed. I have a wood splicingblock I made and it is okay. I started to think about a metal one. Well whenI saw a metal splicing blocks for $85 I took a "Gulp" and decided to try andmake one. After a few attempts I still was not satisfied and then I stumbledacross an idea that worked. So here is how to make a all metal splicingblock for about $15. List of materials 2.5" drill press vise from Harbor freight $41/8"x 3/4" x 2' CRS angle iron Home Depot $31/8" x 1/2" CRS flat stock $2 or plastic or woodEpoxy $3 Cut the CRS angle iron into 2 eight inch sections. Knock off the corners andedges. These are going to be your planing surface. Put 2 of the sidetogether and lay them on a flat surface. Make sure the face of the bars areeven one to another. Now clamp them together tight. Take the drill press vise and knock of any edges on the jaws and look tomake sure the jaw surface is free from ridges or protrusions. Place the clamped together angle irons within the jaws of the vise. The visewill provide the clamping power to hold the cane when cutting a splice.Place the angle irons in a position where the jaws of the vise will providethe best clamping in the area of the cane to be planed. Mark the undersideof the angle irons along the edge of the vise jaws. Apply epoxy to theunderside of the angle irons and then insert the clamp angle irons intopostition. Clamp with moderate pressure and make sure the faces of theangleirons remain flush. I use a 6* angle on my splices a 4*angle works well also but does make for alonger splice. Make the angle you choose on a piece of paper from the topedge. Lay a true edge of your thin piece of metal, plastic or wood alongthis angle. Now mark a line across the top your material by using the edgeof paper to get the angle. This line is parallel to the top edge of thepaper. Cut you material along this line. When lined up and sandwhichedbetween the faces of the angle irons it will then give you an angled shelf Make sure all glue is dried. Now dress the top of the angle irons as youwould if you were dressing forms. I mark the planning surface with a sharpiemarker and use a flat file to flaten the planning surface. I keep filinguntil the sharpie is remove evenly and the surface if flat.Once the faces are cleaned up you now have a mini planing form set up to dosplices. After all that I probably will set up my router with a laminate bit to do mysplice...Oh well! at least I did something today. Adam Vigil from oandc@email.msn.com Sat Nov 10 23:12:20 2001 fAB5CJH17184 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:12:19 - Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:11:34 -0800 Subject: Fw: Cheap metal splicing block FILETIME=[557A7F50:01C16A6F] Well, I just received two posts from the list so I thought I'd use Adam'sexample and test with a reply. I like the splice block idea Adam. I've got most of the material and thedrill press vice so I think I'll make one. Suggestion, how about drawing upa plan and submiting it to the tips site. We're all gadget nuts and one moreis always needed. :^) Wayne----- Original Message ----- Subject: Cheap metal splicing block It seems the list is slow today or I am not recieving post. Well instead ofsending a test let me tell you about a project I have been working on. When making nodeless rods a splicing block is needed. I have a wood splicingblock I made and it is okay. I started to think about a metal one. Well whenI saw a metal splicing blocks for $85 I took a "Gulp" and decided to try andmake one. After a few attempts I still was not satisfied and then I stumbledacross an idea that worked. So here is how to make a all metal splicingblock for about $15. List of materials 2.5" drill press vise from Harbor freight $41/8"x 3/4" x 2' CRS angle iron Home Depot $31/8" x 1/2" CRS flat stock $2 or plastic or woodEpoxy $3 Cut the CRS angle iron into 2 eight inch sections. Knock off the corners andedges. These are going to be your planing surface. Put 2 of the sidetogether and lay them on a flat surface. Make sure the face of the bars areeven one to another. Now clamp them together tight. Take the drill press vise and knock of any edges on the jaws and look tomake sure the jaw surface is free from ridges or protrusions. Place the clamped together angle irons within the jaws of the vise. The visewill provide the clamping power to hold the cane when cutting a splice.Place the angle irons in a position where the jaws of the vise will providethe best clamping in the area of the cane to be planed. Mark the undersideof the angle irons along the edge of the vise jaws. Apply epoxy to theunderside of the angle irons and then insert the clamp angle irons intopostition. Clamp with moderate pressure and make sure the faces of theangleirons remain flush. I use a 6* angle on my splices a 4*angle works well also but does make for alonger splice. Make the angle you choose on a piece of paper from the topedge. Lay a true edge of your thin piece of metal, plastic or wood alongthis angle. Now mark a line across the top your material by using the edgeof paper to get the angle. This line is parallel to the top edge of thepaper. Cut you material along this line. When lined up and sandwhichedbetween the faces of the angle irons it will then give you an angled shelf Make sure all glue is dried. Now dress the top of the angle irons as youwould if you were dressing forms. I mark the planning surface with a sharpiemarker and use a flat file to flaten the planning surface. I keep filinguntil the sharpie is remove evenly and the surface if flat.Once the faces are cleaned up you now have a mini planing form set up to dosplices. After all that I probably will set up my router with a laminate bit to do mysplice...Oh well! at least I did something today. Adam Vigil from oandc@email.msn.com Sat Nov 10 23:31:32 2001 fAB5VVH17634 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:31:32 - Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:30:47 -0800 Subject: Stainless forms FILETIME=[04BF81C0:01C16A72] Three quick questions before I get cut off again Gentelmen. I was talking to a machinist friend, non rodmaker, who had the idea that astainless form could be made fairly easily with a CDC milling machine.Anyone tried this? Also, has anyone tried using tempered springs instead ofpush bolts in their forms? Third, wouldn't recessing the heads on the allenhead pull bolts make the form more versital for mills? Wayne from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Nov 10 23:39:57 2001 fAB5dvH18018 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:39:57 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:40:02 -0500 Subject: gloss or satin How do most prefer their reel seat inserts? And When you buy a seat, does it come finished ordo most put a finish on it?And lastly ,for those who do like gloss finishes, how do glossed reel =seats hold up as far as scratching.Thanks in advance for replies.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} How do most prefer their reel seat inserts? And When you buy a seat, does it come finished or And lastly ,for those who do like gloss finishes, how do glossed = hold up as far as scratching.Thanks in advance for replies.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from oandc@email.msn.com Sun Nov 11 00:23:49 2001 fAB6NmH18735 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:23:48 - Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:22:54 -0800 Subject: Test FILETIME=[4C6662D0:01C16A79] from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 00:29:29 2001 fAB6TTH19027 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:29:29 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 01:29:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Test Got it here. How about you? I'm responding on List. You can respond to meoff List. M-D from oandc@email.msn.com Sun Nov 11 00:40:33 2001 fAB6eXH19499 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:40:33 - Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:39:48 -0800 Subject: Email FILETIME=[A8BA2E20:01C16A7B] Well all,My list mail seems to be coming through again. Thanks to all of you whoresponded with suggestions or support. It was appreciated.Wayne from martinrjensen@home.com Sun Nov 11 00:48:06 2001 fAB6m5H19853 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:48:05 - femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:48:03 -0800 Subject: RE: gloss or satin I make my own reel seats and I dip them in High Gloss Polyurethane. Onecoat. I would have expected them to scratch and dent a bit more thanthey have, but they are holding up surprisingly well. My oldest is maybe3 to 4 years old and looks fine. They are sliding band type. I let themcure fore a couple months. It seems to take that long for the finish toget really hard. I plan to start treating them with UV rays. I haveheard that this will speed up the curing process quite a bit. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: gloss or satin How do most prefer their reel seat inserts?Gloss , Semi gloss or Satin And When you buy a seat, does it come finished ordo most put a finish on it?And lastly ,for those who do like gloss finishes, how do glossed reelseats hold up as far as scratching.Thanks in advance for replies.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html CleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} I make my own reel seats and I dip =them inHigh Gloss Polyurethane. One coat. I would have expected them to scratch =anddent a bit more than they have, but they are holding up surprisingly =well. Myoldest is maybe 3 to 4 years old and looks fine. They are sliding band = months. Itseems to take that long for the finish to get really hard. I plan to =starttreating them with UV rays. I have heard that this will speed up the =curingprocess quite a bit. Martin =Jensen = -----Original =Message-----From: =owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Tony MillerSent: Saturday,November =10, 20019:41 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: gloss or =satin How do most prefer their reel seat =inserts? And When you buy a seat, does it come finished =or it? And lastly ,for those who do like gloss finishes, how do =glossedreel seats hold up as far as scratching. Thanks in advance for replies. Tony Miller www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 11 03:37:34 2001 fAB9bXH21680 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 03:37:33 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: gloss or satin How do most prefer their reel seat inserts? Gloss , Semi gloss or Satin = I prefer gloss, but many orders specify satin. Hell, I figure if the =fish can't see my big ass, they ain't gonna pay any attention to a =glossy real seat! And When you buy a seat, does it come finished or do most put a finish = on it? When I buy them, they come finished. I usually finish my own, and build =my own hardware, but wish I hadn't gotten into that little trap. side =note. Most come finished with a satin finish, and most time I refinish =them to a deep gloss. And lastly ,for those who do like gloss finishes, how do glossed reel = seats hold up as far as scratching. Great, if you know how to finish them... The way I did them before held =up OK, but I learned a new technique from Denver Dave at the SRG, that I =won't divulge without his permission, but that finish is virtually =scratch proof, and if it does scratch it's easy to polish out. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} if the fish can't see my big ass, they ain't gonna pay = glossy real seat! finish on it? When I buy them, they come finish my own, and build my own hardware, but wish I hadn't gotten into = most time I refinish them to a deep gloss. seats hold up as far as scratching. Great, if you know how to finish = Dave at the SRG, that I won't divulge without his permission, but that = out. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 11 04:20:10 2001 fABAK9H22229 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 04:20:09 - fABAK3o88973 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:20:04 Subject: Vixen Files Just a point here that may be helpful when you are looking for Vixen files,Steve. That is that in several places around the world these are known as"Dreadnought" files. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 11 04:32:37 2001 fABAWZH22543 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 04:32:35 - fABAWe690474 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:32:41 Subject: Diamond Compound I do try not to ask silly bloody questions on this list, the answers towhich I could find myself in a short time with a little effort; but here isone - when you blokes talk about "diamond compound", just exactly what doyou mean? I have spent almost hours on the phone to suppliers of engineeringequipment, to tool shops, to a friend who is a toolmaker, to custom cutlers,and I cannot find the answer to this question. When I mention "leatherwheels", "felt wheels" or "diamond grinding compound" I just get the blanklook . A very helpful clerk at on big engineering supplier spent aboutthirty minutes with the catalogue, and still nothing. Help. Peter from pcollin@rochester.rr.com Sun Nov 11 05:35:54 2001 fABBZsH23146 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 05:35:54 - fABBZvh00501 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:35:57 - Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Nov 11 06:47:25 2001 fABClOH23844 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:47:24 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Here to stay! Well all,after several attempts at un subscribing (unsuccessfully obviously)I've cooled off a bit and have decided that a higher power didn't want me toleavethe list, Harry do you have something to do with this?? ;^)Seriously though, I don't think I would have been able to be away for longanyhow!I am glad that I will be here as I have several things I am working on thatIlooking forward to sharing with the list, perhaps they will make a niceChristmaspresent to the list! Stay tuned!Shawn from dickay@alltel.net Sun Nov 11 06:48:25 2001 fABCmOH23945 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:48:24 - srv.alltel.net Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:48:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Diamond Compound Peter, Here is a post from 1998 with the URL for a picture of a homemadeleather wheel by Tom Smithwick. Also several posts from 2000 aboutdiamondcompond paste. I would try some of the sources listed there such asMcMaster Carr, MSC, or KBC.Dick Fuhrman from Tom Smithwick 5/11/98 2:53 PM Over the weekend George Barnes mentioned the diamond paste and leatherwheelmethod of sharpening. Both of us have discussed this in the past, but forthe newbies, a photo is listed at:http:// members.aol.com/tsmithwick The file is named sharpening.jpg. Themethod involves sawing a 5 3/4" circle out of a 2 X 6, truing it up, andcontact cementing a leather strip to the OD. The wheel is then mounted to amotor or pillow block, and turns away from the blade. A block is clamped tothe bench to hold the blade at the same angle every time. It sharpens to amirror polish in seconds. The leather is charged with diamond lappingcompound if you are using a carbide tipped blade, a standard blade willsharpen well with Woodcraft's honing compound. I haven't used a bench stonesince George talked me into trying this. from Dennis Haftel 9/21/00 10:27 AM All, I'm on the MSC website trying to choose a grinding paste for myelectric sharpening wheel a la Tom Smithwick/George Barnes. Does anyoneknowwhat the compound is called that is used in this application? MSC has azillion different kinds of abrasives, etc.TIA,Dennis from Tim Troester 9/21/00 12:07 PM Dennis, Most recently I had a buddy tell me he prefered diamond paste. Ithink several of the guysuse the green. I'm in the process of setting up a wheel myself and will mostlikely start with somethingI can get at Lowes or Menards and end up with 2ea of what I don't use andhave to extend the shelf two feetfarther around the basement to store it somewhere other than the floor. Iwould like to hear what you settle on and why. Timothy from George Aldrich 9/21/00 12:19 PM I have a felt belt on my small sander, that I use to finish hone my gouges,knives, etc.. The best compound I've found is in a white/gray stick forstainless steel. The difference is impressive.GMA from Harry Boyd 9/21/00 2:04 PM Dennis, Tried sending this to you earlier, but it bounced for some reason.I use both the green (12-15 micron?) and yellow (3-5 micron) diamondcompounds from KBC. What you want is in the syringes. If you need the part#, let me know. I'll look it up tonight. If you're just using steel blades,then the green honing compound from Lee Valley/Veritas works like a charm.My plane irons are carbide tipped, and the honing compounds won't begin tocut them.Harry from Dennis Haftel 9/21/00 2:33 PM Hi folks, There seems to be something wrong with the mail server in myoffice so I'm using my home account. Thanks for the responses to my question. I saw the syringe paste on MSC'ssite and will probably go withthat. They're made by Norton and are diamond abrasive embedded in an oilbase. The measured "mesh sizes are 3500 and 1200 for the 5 micron and 12micron, respectively. They ain't cheap either at $26.37 atube! I'd imagine a little goes a long way though...Thanks again,Dennis from Mike 9/22/00 1:07 PM The paste I use is from MSC, diamond honing compound. It's the yellow,comesin a syringe. I use it on a leather belt.Mike from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 11 07:22:03 2001 fABDM2H24617 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 07:22:02 - (authenticated) Sun, 11 Nov 2001 05:21:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Diamond Compound Peter, Glad to help. Since I'm one of the "blokes" who uses and likes the diamondcompounds, and mentions them frequently on the list, I'll try to answer yourquestions. First, the leather wheels you refer to are home-made. . The idea came tothe list via Tom Smithwick and George Barnes originally. There are somegoodpictures on Chris Bogart's site, and some poor pics on my site. Also, therearesome pic's of my setup in the last article I wrote forwww.globalflyfisher.com.It is extremely simple, and can be made in an afternoon. Second, the diamond compounds may be better known as Diamond LappingCompounds. Clover brand is seen most often, and comes in pint cans. Clover israther expensive. But DLC brand is available in small syringes that will lastyou quite a while. I've been using this setup for almost 5 years, and juststarted on my second batch of syringes. Sources: Most industrial tool suppliers should carry these. As anexample,I grabbed the T&S Tool Supply catalog off the top of the stack. On page 105ofthe current catalog I find the following: No. 3 Diamond Compound Yellow 3 Micron 5 grams $13.95 No. 9 Diamond Compound Green 9 Micron 5 grams $16.75 Those are the only two grits you really need. I start with a diamond stone,go to the green compound, then to the yellow. T&S Tools - phone 1-800-525-8665web: www.tstool.com Finally, if you are using standard plane irons, or Hock irons, then theDiamond Compounds are NOT necessary. The Green Honing Compound fromLea Valleywill produce a fine edge, cheaper and with less trouble than the diamondpaste.The Diamond Lapping Compounds become necessary if you are using carbidetips onplane irons. Standard methods of sharpening will not cut the carbide. Hope this helps,Harry Peter McKean wrote: when you blokes talk about "diamond compound", just exactly what doyou mean? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 11 07:49:12 2001 fABDnAH25036 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 07:49:10 - Subject: Re: Diamond Compound There is another method that sounds unlikely but is worth a try. I had my syringe of diamond paste with me on my boat with my hand tools and needed to sharpen a chisel but no wet stone so I got some MDF I was using for molds, smeared some paste on it and basically sharpened the chisel like the MDF was a wet stone. Makes a hell of a mess of the MDF but it sharpens the tool.Since I tried this I heard there was an article in a woodworking or boat mag describing this too. Tony Peter, Glad to help. Since I'm one of the "blokes" who uses and likes the diamondcompounds, and mentions them frequently on the list, I'll try to answer yourquestions. First, the leather wheels you refer to are home-made. . The idea came tothe list via Tom Smithwick and George Barnes originally. There are somegoodpictures on Chris Bogart's site, and some poor pics on my site. Also, there aresome pic's of my setup in the last article I wrote for www.globalflyfisher.com.It is extremely simple, and can be made in an afternoon. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from harms1@pa.net Sun Nov 11 08:17:33 2001 fABEHXH25468 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:17:33 - Subject: Re: gloss or satin All, I used to prefer my reel seats to be high gloss because it seems to bringout the fancy figure of the wood I use. But gloss does not hold up wellover the years (even in poly) to the abrasion caused by my sliding bands.Perhaps the screw-lock configurations would not show so much wear, but I donot use these. I now brush two, thinned coats of high gloss poly (just for a good filmprotection), then lightly with #600 grit wet-or-dry, and rub in two morecoats of "Waterlox" satin finish. (No connection to product or company) cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- How do most prefer their reel seat inserts?Gloss , Semi gloss or Satin Tony Miller from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 11 08:50:05 2001 fABEo5H26552 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:50:05 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:50:03 - Subject: filing nodes Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culm and thinking about how the culm has the tendency to slide around on the workbench as you file. I thought to myself, "There has to be a better way to do this than just having the culm resting on the bench!" So I was wondering if I have this problem everyone else does too and I wondered how everyone else was doing this procedure. Here is what I came up with to eleviate this problem. I made a rack to hold the culm while I worked on it. Not only does the culm stay in place but it is elevated too for a better angle to get at the nodes.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culm andthinking about how the culm has the tendency to slide around on the way to do this than just having the culm resting on the I was wondering if I have this problem everyone else does too and I wondered too for a better angle to get at the nodes.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Nov 11 09:00:16 2001 fABF0FH26888 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:00:15 -0600 Sun, 11 Nov 2001 07:00:23 PST Subject: Re: filing nodes hi bret, i have screwed a 2x6 to the edge of my workbench, edge up, that sticks up over the surface of thetabletop. the 2x6 is about the internal width of the1/2 culm and keeps it from rolling around. timothy --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culmand thinking about how the culm has the tendency to slide around on theworkbench as you file. I thought to myself, "There has to be a better way todo this than just having the culm resting on the bench!" So I was wonderingif I have this problem everyone else does too and I wondered how everyoneelse was doing this procedure. Here is what I came up with to eleviatethis problem. I made a rack to hold the culm while I worked on it. Notonly does the culm stay in place but it is elevated too for a better angle toget at the nodes.Bret ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 11 09:02:04 2001 fABF24H27096 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:02:04 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:02:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Filing nodes Yes ,YesBret's technique for this is great:)) Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Yes ,YesBret's technique for this is great:))I now use it too. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 09:03:16 2001 fABF3FH27315 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:03:15 - fABF3M816317; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:03:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Stainless forms Recessing the heads would help keep from skinning your knuckles. I usedCountersunk Allen head screws on my forms. Helps keep the forms alignedwithoutdowel pins.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Wayne Kifer wrote: Three quick questions before I get cut off again Gentelmen. I was talking to a machinist friend, non rodmaker, who had the idea that astainless form could be made fairly easily with a CDC milling machine.Anyone tried this? Also, has anyone tried using tempered springs insteadofpush bolts in their forms? Third, wouldn't recessing the heads on the allenhead pull bolts make the form more versital for mills? Wayne from rmoon@ida.net Sun Nov 11 09:24:14 2001 fABFODH27879 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:24:13 -0600 0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2)Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 Subject: Re: Here to stay! Glad you are still here ShawnRalph -- http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon/symposium from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 11 09:35:28 2001 fABFZQH28234 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:35:26 - helo=g2t8c9) id 162wdt-0000M8-00; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 07:35:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Cheap metal splicing block I will try to get some pictures taken and put them on Todds Talsma sight. Istill have to put up picts of my binder as well as my beveller. Adam from rmoon@ida.net Sun Nov 11 09:37:27 2001 fABFbQH28472 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:37:26 -0600 0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2)Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 Subject: Re: filing nodes I have always used a section of wooden stair rail. It is flat on the bottom and round on tip. It can be configured how you will. elevated , stationary or loose. . You don't really need a lot. I have gotten by on about 18" for years. Ralph -- http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon/symposium > from channer@frontier.netSun Nov 11 09:55:53 2001 Received: from cadmium.frontier.net 0699C7A23B for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:03:57 Nov 2001 08:57:32 -0700 From: channer X-Mailer:Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK- MCD NS4xx/Winxx/EZN (Win95; U) X-Accept- filing nodes References: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN RAlph; Shows to go ya thatgreat minds work alike, that's what I use,too! LOL John "Ralph W. Moon"wrote: I have always used a section of wooden stair rail. It is flat on thebottom and round on tip. It can be configured how you will. elevated ,stationary or loose. . You don't really need a lot. I have gotten byon about 18" for years. Ralph -- from mtaylor7409@home.com Sun Nov 11 09:58:25 2001 fABFwOH29339 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:58:24 - ;Sun, 11 Nov 2001 07:58:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons i have made blades from saw bladesthe blades i have are scarret and ellipcesthe blades are three foot long and 3 incheshigh and about .115 thickthe blades are impoosible to do any machining onthem ex drilling holes millingi make my blades by first wire edm slicing them up to my sizes then isuface grind them then i edm sink all the holesand slots to have a finshed bladethe copistion of the blades i dont knowin around the 62rc the blades do chip on the tipif not careful Subject: RE: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons Where would you find hack saw blades that were thick enough? Martin Jensen -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: Re: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons At 9:21 PM -0800 , 11/9/01, Adam Vigil wrote about Composition ofStanley Planing Irons AISI A2 is a medium alloy, air hardening, cold work, chrome molybdenum tool steel, it's nominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.00%Molybdenum 1.00%Chromium 5.00%Other elements trace levels Stanley block plane irons are made from hot rolled high carbon steel, it's nominal analysis is :-Carbon 1.25%Manganese 0.3%Silicon 0.22%Chromium 0.2%Nickel 0.25 maxSulphur 0.015% maxPhosphorous 0.02% maxOther elements trace levels Would anyone know what the composition of power hack saw blades is? from what I've seen, the stuff is not only very hard, but also verytough - would it make a good plane iron? Claude from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 11 10:03:08 2001 fABG33H29666 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:03:03 -0600 helo=g2t8c9) id 162x4a-00012G-00; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:03:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Here to stay! Shawn, Glad to hear it. You know when the list is stuck in "Jack Ass Mode" what Ido is a technique I perfected when dealing with my crazy mother in law. I stare at her with a blank stare, think of a happy place or what rod I willbuild next. I let her ramble on mindlessly until she burns out like aspastic little kid after to much candy on Halloween. When she has used upher entire vocabulary and her lips are swollen and split open from flappingtogether and beating themselves into looking like a baboons butt. I then askan intelligent question and the silence is deafening. Honestly Shawn there are about 500 list members and about 35-40 thatcontribute on a regular basis. And if guys like you leave this list willbecome nothing more then a dead archive. That goes for couple of guys out there also, you know who you are. Adam Vigil "after several attempts at un subscribing (unsuccessfully obviously)I've cooled off a bit and have decided that a higher power didn't want me toleavethe list, Harry do you have something to do with this?? ;^)"Shawn from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 11 10:06:47 2001 fABG6gH29925 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:06:42 - Subject: RE: filing nodes Bret:I use my Hida star splitter to split to 8s. Then I file the diaphrams in mybench vise or with my disc sander. Then I split down. Then I flatten thesplit strips in my bench vise. I have been also straighteneing them in thenew Waara jig I got from John Long. Works nicely.Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: filing nodes Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culm and thinking about howthe culm has the tendency to slide around on the workbench as you file. Ithought to myself, "There has to be a better way to do this than just havingthe culm resting on the bench!" So I was wondering if I have this problemeveryone else does too and I wondered how everyone else was doing thisprocedure. Here is what I came up with to eleviate this problem. I made arack to hold the culm while I worked on it. Not only does the culm stay inplace but it is elevated too for a better angle to get at the nodes.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) Bret: Hida star splitter to split to 8s. Then I file the diaphrams in my bench = with my disc sander. Then I split down. Then I flatten the split strips = bench vise. I have been also straighteneing them in the new Waara jig I = John Long. Works nicely.Bob Grhghlndr@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 nodesQuite awhile back I was = nodes on a culm and thinking about how the culm has the tendency to = "There has to be a better way to do this than = everyone else does too and I wondered how everyone else was doing this = culm stay in place but it is elevated too for a better angle to get at = nodes.Bret(www.homestead.co=m/bambooovens/home.html) from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Nov 11 10:15:20 2001 fABGFJH00344 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:15:19 -0600 Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:15:26 PST Subject: Re: filing nodes i use 2x6's for stair rails! timothy --- channer wrote: RAlph;Shows to go ya that great minds work alike, that'swhat I use,too! LOLJohn "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: I have always used a section of wooden stair rail. It is flat on the bottom and round on tip. It can be configured how you will. elevated , stationary or loose. . You don't really need a lot. I have gotten by on about 18" for years. Ralph -- ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 11 10:20:00 2001 fABGJxH00700 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:19:59 -0600 Subject: Re: filing nodes OK what I have done is take a 1X4 about 2' long and made a cradle in it. I am going to add a picture to my website if anyone wants to see it and if I get a chance I will post the picture to the list.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) OK what I have done is take a 1X4 about 2' long and made a to see it and if I get a chance I will post the picture to the list.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Nov 11 10:39:22 2001 fABGdLH01166 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:39:22 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: RE: Here to stay Ditto what Ralph said. I regretted hearing of your departure. Glad to =know you're still around. Hope that rod order form I sent you worked out =okay. Randall G. NW AR. Feel free to let me know of critical revisions I =may have forgotten. Ditto what Ralph said. I regretted = departure. Glad to know you're still around. Hope that rod order form I = revisions I may have forgotten. from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 10:43:15 2001 fABGhFH01437 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:43:15 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:43:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Diamond Compound the buffing compounds, as suggested by the late George Aldrich in the postthat Dick Fuhrman made, will work in the same manner as the diamond paste.I've never used it for sharpening plane irons, but have used it extensively in a brick and are sold by any knifemaker's supply. Resist using lots ofpressure to "help" the wheel/compound do its job. Too much pressure equalsheat, and a slower turning wheel would also be advantageous. M-D Peter, SNIP Finally, if you are using standard plane irons, or Hock irons, then the Diamond Compounds are NOT necessary. The Green Honing Compound fromLea Valley will produce a fine edge, cheaper and with less trouble than the diamond paste. The Diamond Lapping Compounds become necessary if you are usingcarbide tips on plane irons. Standard methods of sharpening will not cut the carbide. Hope this helps,Harry Peter McKean wrote: when you blokes talk about "diamond compound", just exactly what doyou mean? from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Sun Nov 11 11:23:39 2001 fABHNcH02204 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:23:38 - Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:23:41 -0800 Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:23:40 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: filing nodes FILETIME=[9B5A01B0:01C16AD5] Bob: that you could do to speed up the process of node pressing andstraightening, is to do them both at the same time with your Warra Press.This will eliminate the need to have to heat the strips for both operations.That was Bill's line of thinking when he designed the press. Quite often whenyou heat the nodes more then one time, it seems to make the planingprocess seem more difficult. The nodes seem to become physically harder toplane. Just try and first straighten the node, and when it cools just enoughto stay in place, quickly flip the strip and flatten the node like you want it.With a little practice, you'll find it quite easy to do both operations with theWarra Node Press, great diaphrams in my flatten the them in the AM Subject: filing nodes thinking about how as you file. I than just having this problem was doing this problem. I made a culm stay in nodes. Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 11 11:29:26 2001 fABHTKH02503 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:29:25 - ;Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:29:23 +0000 Subject: Flat head allen screws Tony, Wanted to thank you for your suggestions. I think the flat head allenscrews are inspired. It will get the heads of the allens out of the way(which I hated on my wooden forms) and the indexing feature saving theneed for dowel pins is superb! Tony Spezio wrote: Recessing the heads would help keep from skinning your knuckles. I usedCountersunk Allen head screws on my forms. Helps keep the forms alignedwithoutdowel pins.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from oandc@email.msn.com Sun Nov 11 11:48:31 2001 fABHmUH03046 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:48:30 - Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:47:45 -0800 Subject: Fw: Test FILETIME=[F8605EB0:01C16AD8] Thanks for the feedback MD. Thats why I ask these fool questions. So someone with a little good sensecan deter me from a few of my outlandish ideas. :^) Wayne ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Test Wayne, I've never made a form on CNC. The archives are full of horror stories frompeople who tried to get machinists to make their forms.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Test Yep,It would seem that I'm back in business. At least for the time being. By the way, you are a CNC man. Have you built a stainless form with a CNC mill? from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 11:51:48 2001 fABHplH03326 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:51:47 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:51:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Flat head allen screws Guys, The use of flat-head Allen screws is definitely a good idea but just tothrow a burr in your screwholes: IF the use of dowel pins is necessary informs as are made by conventional means, how would they not be necessaryinforms when the flat-head screws are used? I mean, the indexing is achievedon the shoulder when shoulder screws are used, or on the angled head of theflat- head screws. I don't see any difference other than the methodology inuse. M-D Tony, Wanted to thank you for your suggestions. I think the flat head allenscrews are inspired. It will get the heads of the allens out of the way(which I hated on my wooden forms) and the indexing feature saving theneed for dowel pins is superb! Tony Spezio wrote: Recessing the heads would help keep from skinning your knuckles. I usedCountersunk Allen head screws on my forms. Helps keep the formsaligned without dowel pins.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 11 11:53:02 2001 fABHqvH03486 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:52:57 - Subject: dams/nodes Hello All, Thought I would jump in here with a few things I am doing now that havesaved me a bunch of time and in my opinion improved the node situation. I did not invent these operations but incorporated them after readingabout them. When I select a culm I decide where I need to cut it forthe node pattern on the rod I plan to build. I then cut the culm andsplit each section in half. It is much easier to split and control thesplit on half of a culm. I then split the halves into sixths. Aftersplitting to sixths I turn on my bandsaw and in moments the dams aregone! Next I will split the sixths to the rough strips according to how theflaws or leaf buds fall on the pieces. When I have selected the pieces Iwill make the rod from I stagger the nodes and cut them to length (+). Ithen give them a good hot bath! Two days minimum in the water beforeworking nodes. I now press my nodes in a notch in my bench vise, and life is good!Smallest nodal strips I have seen on any rods. Having fun in Independence,Steve from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Nov 11 11:57:27 2001 fABHvRH03915 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:57:27 - Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:57:31 PST Subject: Re: Fw: Test man was i lucky. i found a machinist that has not onlymade numerous planing forms in various styles. he wasfamiliar with methods of rodbuilding. he knows what iwant almost before i ask. timothy --- Wayne Kifer wrote: Thanks for the feedback MD. Thats why I ask these fool questions. So someonewith a little good sensecan deter me from a few of my outlandish ideas. :^) Wayne ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 8:42 AMSubject: Re: Test Wayne, I've never made a form on CNC. The archives are fullof horror stories frompeople who tried to get machinists to make theirforms.----- Original Message -----From: "Wayne Kifer" Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 12:47 AMSubject: Re: Test Yep,It would seem that I'm back in business. At least the way, you are a CNC man. Have you built a stainless form with a CNC mill? ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 12:11:08 2001 fABIB6H04476 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:11:07 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:11:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Composition of Stanley Planing Irons Good post, Alan. doingthings in a manner most difficult, here is a link to a book on making yourown home workshop EDM. EDM is great -- slow but great.http://store.homeshopmachinist.net/index?curlocation=2&dig=1&itemnum=EDM&start=1&maxrows=10You may have to type this URL in, or cut and paste in your browser, as a hotlink it will probably get messed up in the transmission. M-D From: "alan t" i have made blades from saw bladesthe blades i have are scarret and ellipcesthe blades are three foot long and 3 incheshigh and about .115 thickthe blades are impoosible to do any machining onthem ex drilling holes millingi make my blades by first wire edm slicing them up to my sizes then isuface grind them then i edm sink all the holesand slots to have a finshed bladethe copistion of the blades i dont knowin around the 62rc the blades do chip on the tipif not careful from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 11 12:12:15 2001 fABICEH04655 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:12:14 - Subject: RE: filing nodes Jim:I am using the Waara with my vice (not in the vice, however). I put a cut onthe back side of the node to give an area for displacing the node. Then Iheat and straighten using the Waara press, and then quickly hit the sides inthe vise and then clamp it in the vise to flatten. I move quickly and it isstill pliable enough to use both devices one after the other. I then leaveit in the vice and go to the next strip. My vice has the V notch for theridge, and it does such a good job I will not change that process. ThanksTony S!**I HAVE ONLY BEEN USING THE WAARA FOR LESS THAN A WEEK**, so I donot wantto sound like the final answer. I would love to see a real expert like youor John use the press.Best regards,Bob ps., my use of caps was not to imply me screaming, I just did not know howelse to use a plain text message and emphasise that part.-----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 5:24 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: filing nodes Bob: I've been using the Warra Node Press from day one. One thing that youcould do to speed up the process of node pressing and straightening, is todo them both at the same time with your Warra Press. This will eliminate theneed to have to heat the strips for both operations. That was Bill's line ofthinking when he designed the press. Quite often when you heat the nodesmore then one time, it seems to make the planing process seem moredifficult. The nodes seem to become physically harder to plane. Just try andfirst straighten the node, and when it cools just enough to stay in place,quickly flip the strip and flatten the node like you want it. With a littlepractice, you'll find it quite easy to do both operations with the WarraNode Press, great tool. Jim From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: filing nodesDate: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:16:51 -0500 Bret:I use my Hida star splitter to split to 8s. Then I file the diaphrams inmybench vise or with my disc sander. Then I split down. Then I flatten thesplit strips in my bench vise. I have been also straighteneing them inthenew Waara jig I got from John Long. Works nicely.Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Grhghlndr@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 9:50 AM Subject: filing nodes Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culm and thinking abouthowthe culm has the tendency to slide around on the workbench as you file. Ithought to myself, "There has to be a better way to do this than justhavingthe culm resting on the bench!" So I was wondering if I have this problemeveryone else does too and I wondered how everyone else was doing thisprocedure. Here is what I came up with to eleviate this problem. I made arack to hold the culm while I worked on it. Not only does the culm stayinplace but it is elevated too for a better angle to get at the nodes.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Jim: the Waara with my vice (not in the vice, however). I put a cut on the = of the node to give an area for displacing the node. Then I heat and = using the Waara press, and then quickly hit the sides in the vise and = it in the vise to flatten. I move quickly and it is still pliable enough = both devices one after the other. I then leave it in the vice and go to = strip. My vice has the V notch for the ridge, and it does such a good = not change that process. Thanks Tony S! ONLY BEEN USING THE WAARA FOR LESS THAN A WEEK**, so I do not want to= the press. regards,Bob of caps was not to imply me screaming, I just did not know how else to = plain text message and emphasise that part. nodes Bob: you could do to speed up the process of node pressing and = do them both at the same time with your Warra Press. This will = need to have to heat the strips for both operations. That was Bill's = thinking when he designed the press. Quite often when you heat the = then one time, it seems to make the planing process seem more = nodes seem to become physically harder to plane. Just try and first = the node, and when it cools just enough to stay in place, quickly flip = strip and flatten the node like you want it. With a little practice, = find it quite easy to do both operations with the Warra Node Press, = = Jim = Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from robert.warholm@home.com Sun Nov 11 12:24:46 2001 fABIOjH05236 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:24:45 - Subject: Designs for real seats As I Tool Up to made Rods I am very Interested in making rods from the basematerials up in all aspects, includes Reel seats. Just my philosopy in lifeI guess, I Like the fact I can make things all Myself and do a very good jobof it, at least I hope. In any event I am curious where I may find Detailed plans for making variousreals seats of all different styles ( Ring/ Up locking/Down- Locking/Extendedetc.) These would need to include Detailed Pictures/Diagrams,Specifications Material Lists and maybe some Notes. (just the engineer in meshowing I guess) Are there any good books out there that cover this topic or carry suchdesigns etc? ( or could we start a plan archive of such things on the tipsite that has recently been started or on the main rod makers page similiarto the taper archive. Additionally how do reel seat sizes vary for the Reel size / Line weightspecifications ( ie. Foot size?) Additionally, Since I have only worked on a metal lath to a limited extentin school some 20 years ago or so, my how time flies, are there any goodbooks out there on learning the basic fundimentals of turning metal andmaking threads that one can obtain - that you would recommend as a goodteaching book. Please feel free to send me attachments with such plans, if you see fit, asI have high speed Internet and large files are no problem and I run NortonAV so I will be careful. But please do not clutter the list with largeattachments as I am aware it causes others problems. Thank you so much in advance. I have had a pleasure monitoring the list forthe last year and look forward to hopefully one day owning more bamboo rodsthan I and my boys could ever hope to fish. Sincerely,Rob Warholm from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 12:27:28 2001 fABIRRH05522 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:27:27 -0600 fABIRY804324; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:27:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Flat head allen screws JoJo,I don't quite understand your post.On my "homemade" forms, I find that I have no problem at all keeping thesidesaligned without the dowel pins using the countersunk flat head Allen screws.Mystrips come out as well as can be done by hand. They are all within .001 andhave a perfect 60* angle. What more can I ask for.When the screws are tightened the counter sink keeps the bars aligned. Imay bewrong about this but if it works for me I use it.I have second set of "professional" made forms the Allen screw heads reallyknock the skin off my knuckles. It may be the way I hold my plane that getsmyknuckles. Don't know.On the "Push" side I removed the Allen head screws and replaced them with"Set"screws.No heads showing now. No knuckles busted when I "have" to use these forms.Thisset has dowel pins.Will not go into how bad these forms were professionally made by aprofessionalmachinist.I acquired them second hand and found out why he dumped them.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Guys, The use of flat-head Allen screws is definitely a good idea but just tothrow a burr in your screwholes: IF the use of dowel pins is necessary informs as are made by conventional means, how would they not benecessary informs when the flat-head screws are used? I mean, the indexing isachievedon the shoulder when shoulder screws are used, or on the angled head oftheflat- head screws. I don't see any difference other than the methodology inuse. M-D From: "Steve Trauthwein" Tony, Wanted to thank you for your suggestions. I think the flat head allenscrews are inspired. It will get the heads of the allens out of the way(which I hated on my wooden forms) and the indexing feature saving theneed for dowel pins is superb! Tony Spezio wrote: Recessing the heads would help keep from skinning your knuckles. IusedCountersunk Allen head screws on my forms. Helps keep the formsaligned without dowel pins.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from robertgkope@home.com Sun Nov 11 12:39:04 2001 fABIcoH06059 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:38:50 - femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:38:53 -0800 Subject: Re: filing nodes I split first, file nodes later. If you split into strips first you can hold the strips in your vise and =carefully remove just the enamel at the node with a file. This allows =you to flatten the outermost fibers at the node instead of filing =through them to get a flat surface. Of course, splitting first also =allows you to bend the strips and hit the nodes on your disk sander to =flatten them in a fraction of a second if you don't worry about the =surface fibers at the nodes. -- Robert Kope Subject: filing nodes So I was wondering if I have this problem everyone else does too and I = I split first, file nodes =later. If you split into strips first you can = strips in your vise and carefully remove just the enamel at the node = flatten them in a fraction of a second if you don't worry about the = fibers at the nodes. -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001= AMSubject: filing nodesSo I was wondering if I= problem everyone else does too and I wondered how everyone else was = from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 12:41:06 2001 fABIf5H06307 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:41:05 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:41:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Flat head allen screws Tony, All I'm saying is that I fail to understand how the use of flat-head screwswould negate the need for dowel pins, if properly spaced dowel pins arenecessary for forms made with shoulder screws (and I believe they are).The streamlined feature accorded by the use of flat-head screws would, tome, seem to be a definite improvement, though I've never had problems withthe protruding heads. M-D JoJo,I don't quite understand your post. Jojo DeLancier wrote: Guys, The use of flat-head Allen screws is definitely a good idea but just tothrow a burr in your screwholes: IF the use of dowel pins is necessary in forms as are made by conventional means, how would they not benecessary in forms when the flat-head screws are used? I mean, the indexing is achieved on the shoulder when shoulder screws are used, or on the angled head of the flat-head screws. I don't see any difference other than the methodology in use. M-D from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Nov 11 13:00:40 2001 fABJ0cH06939 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:00:38 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:00:35 - Subject: Re: Diamond Compound I have other polishing compounds I use to polish metal, although it is usually silver or gold. They are called tripoli, yellow rouge, green rouge, and red rouge in decreasing order of coarseness. I still prefer the diamond paste because it is cleaner, easier to use, and if used properly - only a little dab is neccessary if extender fluid is used - actually less expensive. I get my diamond compound in syringes from lapidary stores. Lapidary is the craft of polishing gem stones. One word of caution - the carrier paste and extender fluid are silicone based. Silicone (the oily fluid, not silicon the element) will cause fish eyes in your varnish if it gets on your rod or in your varnish. Sharpen your blades away from your workbench and wipe offthe blade with a solvent before planing.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/11/01 5:22:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Finally, if you are using standard plane irons, or Hock irons, then theDiamond Compounds are NOT necessary. The Green Honing Compound fromLea Valleywill produce a fine edge, cheaper and with less trouble than the diamond paste. The Diamond Lapping Compounds become necessary if you are using carbide tips onplane irons. Standard methods of sharpening will not cut the carbide. Hope this helps,Harry is usually silver or gold. They are called tripoli, yellow rouge, green rouge, andred rouge in decreasing order of coarseness. I still prefer the diamond pastebecause it is cleaner, easier to use, and if used properly - only a little dab isneccessary if extender fluid is used - actually less expensive. I get mydiamond compound in syringes from lapidary stores. Lapidary is the craft ofpolishing gem stones. One word of caution - the carrier paste and extenderfluid are silicone based. Silicone (the oily fluid, not silicon the element) willcause fish eyes in your varnish if it gets on your rod or in your varnish.Sharpen your blades away from your workbench and wipe off the blade with asolvent before planing.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/11/01 5:22:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Hock irons, then the Compound from Lea Valleywill produce a fine edge, cheaper and with less trouble than the diamondpaste.The Diamond Lapping Compounds become necessary if you are usingcarbide tips on carbide. from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sun Nov 11 13:11:51 2001 fABJBoH07413 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:11:50 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:11:58 - Subject: relative humidity. Hi all, At what point of relative humidity do you not wory about moisture =re- entering cane after heat treating- or do you always worry about that. In my shop, the relative humidity has been hovering around 38-40%. =Should I be worried about moisture at this level? TIA John K Hi all, At what point of relative humidity do = about moisture re-entering cane after heat treating- or do you always = about that. In my shop, the relative humidity has = level? TIA JohnK from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 13:12:24 2001 fABJCIH07500 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:12:19 - fABJCQ808842 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:12:26 -0600 Subject: NODES, try Displacing Instead of filing nodes you might try this methodI use.I think it will work just as well with dry nodes.It will take more heat than with wet nodesI don't do anything with the nodes beforesplitting.The culm is split and all the strips are split tosize.I don't even bother with the inner nodes.After the strips are staggered and cut to length,the inner node is cut out in a long 1/2 moonshape.I have a small band saw I use for this.Only cut out the pith. The strips then are soaked Soaking the strips only requires about 30 secondsover the heat gun to soften the nodes.A plate with a notch for the ridge of the node tofit in, is attached to one jaw of my vise withdouble sided tape. The ridge is set in the notchand the vise closed.The node is displaced. You will find the fibers inthe node will be almost straight with the otherfibers in the strip and does not harden up. Whenout ofvthe vise, the only thing to file off is thenode ridge.It takes about 4-6 strokes with a file to knockoff the ridge. The finished rod has a very smallnodal area. Of course you can always go nodeless.Would be glad to send "off list" photos of the"Displaced" strips.This is not my original idea, I just built on it from some things I read on the list.Tony Flytyr@southshore.com from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 13:15:14 2001 fABJF8H07919 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:15:13 -0600 fABJFF809128; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:15:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Flat head allen screws Jo Jo ,I guess I just can't answer that. Don't know.Sorry.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Tony, All I'm saying is that I fail to understand how the use of flat-head screwswould negate the need for dowel pins, if properly spaced dowel pins arenecessary for forms made with shoulder screws (and I believe they are).The streamlined feature accorded by the use of flat-head screws would, tome, seem to be a definite improvement, though I've never had problemswiththe protruding heads. M-D From: "Tony Spezio" JoJo,I don't quite understand your post. Jojo DeLancier wrote: Guys, The use of flat-head Allen screws is definitely a good idea but just tothrow a burr in your screwholes: IF the use of dowel pins is necessary in forms as are made by conventional means, how would they not benecessary in forms when the flat-head screws are used? I mean, the indexing is achieved on the shoulder when shoulder screws are used, or on the angled headof the flat-head screws. I don't see any difference other than themethodology in use. M-D from oandc@email.msn.com Sun Nov 11 13:52:23 2001 fABJqMH08911 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:52:22 - Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:51:37 -0800 Subject: Re: NODES, try Displacing FILETIME=[468E7FC0:01C16AEA] All. Here is something that has got me a bit puzzled. The notch in the press.Logic would seem to dictate to me that the purpose of pressing or displacingnodes, aside from removing the bump, would be to bring the power fibers intoalignment with the rest of the strip. These fibers being the backbone of therod, it would seem to me that one wouldn't want to break them on the enamelside of the strip. Therefor, wouldn't pressing or relocating the entirenodal ridge and then sanding off the enamel be the most advantagesmethod? Iknow opinions difer on this and I would be interested in the pros and cons. Thanks in advance for the feedback,Wayne from jfoster@sunset.net Sun Nov 11 13:52:24 2001 fABJqNH08914 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:52:23 - fABJqLE4022341 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:52:21 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011022 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: nodes I have a question about the logic of node displacement pressing..either This must be for cosmetic reasons only?the fibers at the nodes spread..toward the surface and toward the pith, when you allow them to simply be pressed back into a void they are not being compressed, it would appear, they are only being moved inward and not being re-aligned with the rest of the strip...i agree you get a straighter outer surface but when you plane you are removing most of the fiber from the densest layer, which is now the middle of the strip.less fiber is lost if one were to simply grind the outside surface flat.i also believe that this is not a critical value as the nodes must get around 1000 degrees F using a heat gun, they are probably trashed anyway. i guess that's why the stagger is important. ?jerry from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 11 14:05:07 2001 fABK57H09736 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:05:07 - Subject: SRG 2001 Could someone supply me with the url for the page with the pictures from2001? TIA. Steve from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 14:15:18 2001 fABKFHH10257 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:15:17 - fABKFN814630; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:15:24 -0600 Subject: Re: nodes Jerry, I guess it is for cosmetic reasons, but I do find the fibers are morealigned.The first rod I made I just sanded the raw nodes flat, I think this was onone of the recommendations your post a couple of years ago.It no doubt was the easiest way. The wide node area bothered me inappearance. The first rod has been used a lot and had caught over 300 fishwith no ill effects of sanding the nodes off.I just have a thing about small nodal areas and to me a bamboo rod has tohave nodes. Just my thing.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jerry Foster wrote: I have a question about the logic of node displacement pressing..either This must be for cosmetic reasons only?the fibers at the nodes spread..toward the surface and toward the pith,when you allow them to simply be pressed back into a void they are notbeing compressed, it would appear, they are only being moved inward andnot being re-aligned with the rest of the strip...i agree you get astraighter outer surface but when you plane you are removing most of thefiber from the densest layer, which is now the middle of the strip.less fiber is lost if one were to simply grind the outside surface flat.i also believe that this is not a critical value as the nodes must getaround 1000 degrees F using a heat gun, they are probably trashedanyway. i guess that's why the stagger is important. ?jerry from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 14:20:37 2001 fABKKaH10644 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:20:36 -0600 fABKKg815078; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:20:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Flat head allen screws Jo Jo,On second thought I might be able to answer. Think of it like a tail stockcentercentering a piece of stock between the head stock and tail stock. The coneof thetail stock will center itself in the hole of the work piece and keep it centeredwith the head stock. I think for now that is the best I can do to answer.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Jo Jo ,I guess I just can't answer that. Don't know.Sorry.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: Tony, All I'm saying is that I fail to understand how the use of flat-head screwswould negate the need for dowel pins, if properly spaced dowel pins arenecessary for forms made with shoulder screws (and I believe they are).The streamlined feature accorded by the use of flat-head screws would,tome, seem to be a definite improvement, though I've never had problemswiththe protruding heads. M-D From: "Tony Spezio" JoJo,I don't quite understand your post. Jojo DeLancier wrote: Guys, The use of flat-head Allen screws is definitely a good idea but just tothrow a burr in your screwholes: IF the use of dowel pins isnecessary in forms as are made by conventional means, how would they not benecessary in forms when the flat-head screws are used? I mean, the indexing is achieved on the shoulder when shoulder screws are used, or on the angledhead of the flat-head screws. I don't see any difference other than themethodology in use. M-D from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 11 14:26:44 2001 fABKQhH11198 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:26:44 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:26:49 -0500 Subject: Re: nodes I'm curious I kinda like it when I see a node in a flamedrod. To me it makes the rod look attractive.But when you say small node ,do you mean the actual node or the light =spot around it caused by sanding of filing?Is there any benefit besides cosmetics to having a small node area, or =would you say it is a preference thing?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I'm curious I kinda like it when I see a node in a flamedrod. To me it makes the rod look attractive.But when you say small node ,do you mean the actual node or the = around it caused by sanding of filing?Is there any benefit besides cosmetics to having a small node area, = would you say it is a preference thing?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 14:28:25 2001 fABKSPH11529 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:28:25 - fABKSV815913; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:28:31 -0600 Subject: Re: NODES, try Displacing The notch only accommodates the small ridge of the node on the enamelside. Theplate is flat on each side of the notch.The notch about 1/8" wide and about 1/8" deep. It is a "V" notch.None of the node body is in the notch. The only part of the strip that is cutout is the PIT side and not cut into the fibers. Nothing is removed from theenamel side except the small ridge that protrudes from the node.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Wayne Kifer wrote: All. Here is something that has got me a bit puzzled. The notch in the press.Logic would seem to dictate to me that the purpose of pressing ordisplacingnodes, aside from removing the bump, would be to bring the power fibersintoalignment with the rest of the strip. These fibers being the backbone oftherod, it would seem to me that one wouldn't want to break them on theenamelside of the strip. Therefor, wouldn't pressing or relocating the entirenodal ridge and then sanding off the enamel be the most advantagesmethod? Iknow opinions difer on this and I would be interested in the pros and cons. Thanks in advance for the feedback,Wayne from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 14:32:16 2001 fABKWGH11976 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:32:16 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: Re: relative humidity. John, One of the things I observed in my most recent round of testing was that thestrips for the most part, when placed from the dessicant tray into theambient atmosphere, did not gain any measurable moisture for the first 4hours of exposure, where the RH ranged from 32% - 36%. When the RH roseto64% at 8 hours I began to see a small weight gain, though nothingconsistent, and when at 68% at 24 hours I began to see uniform weightincreases. I don't consider this series of tests conclusive but it does giveme pause for thought as to what level of RH is most conducive to moistureadsorption. I wish the RH had been higher for that first 8 hours, then I mayhave had something by which to relate the adsorption on a more practicallevel of rodmaking, at least in the South. Those who live in drier climatesshould not, I think, have to be nearly as concerned as quickly about this,as do we who live in wetter climes.There are others doing the same type of testing who may wish to conveytheirfindings, if they have completed them. M-D Hi all, At what point of relative humidity do you not wory about moisturere-entering cane after heat treating- or do you always worry about that. In my shop, the relative humidity has been hovering around 38-40%. Should Ibe worried about moisture at this level? TIA John K from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 14:39:45 2001 fABKdiH12592 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:39:44 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:39:51 -0500 Subject: Re: nodes This, I believe, is the great benefit from soaking the strips. Less heatexposure is required to accomplish the task. There has been some questionofwhat, if any, degradation of the strips may occur due to soaking, and Itruly have no idea. My empirical observations suggest that there is nofundamental difference. M-D SNIP i also believe that this is not a critical value as the nodes must getaround 1000 degrees F using a heat gun, they are probably trashedanyway. i guess that's why the stagger is important. ?jerry from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sun Nov 11 14:42:05 2001 fABKg5H12923 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:42:05 -0600 Subject: Re: relative humidity. Thanks, M-D I've been putting them strips in with a desicant, if I can't get them planedand glued up in a short period of time, but was wondering if I even neededto if the relative humidity is that low. In the summer-it gets up over 50%,so I make sure that the strips go in a desicant, but this time of year andespecially in winter, I can se humidities downt o low 30% and into upper 20%inthe shop. JohnK----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: relative humidity. John, One of the things I observed in my most recent round of testing was that the strips for the most part, when placed from the dessicant tray into theambient atmosphere, did not gain any measurable moisture for the first 4hours of exposure, where the RH ranged from 32% - 36%. When the RHrose to64% at 8 hours I began to see a small weight gain, though nothingconsistent, and when at 68% at 24 hours I began to see uniform weightincreases. I don't consider this series of tests conclusive but it does give me pause for thought as to what level of RH is most conducive to moistureadsorption. I wish the RH had been higher for that first 8 hours, then I may have had something by which to relate the adsorption on a more practicallevel of rodmaking, at least in the South. Those who live in drier climates should not, I think, have to be nearly as concerned as quickly about this,as do we who live in wetter climes.There are others doing the same type of testing who may wish to convey their findings, if they have completed them. M-D From: John Kenealy Hi all, At what point of relative humidity do you not wory about moisturere-entering cane after heat treating- or do you always worry about that. In my shop, the relative humidity has been hovering around 38-40%. Should I be worried about moisture at this level? TIA John K from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 14:42:23 2001 fABKgMH12989 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:42:22 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:42:29 -0500 Subject: Re: NODES, try Displacing While my methodology differs somewhat, the practical application and theendresult are the same. This works, and works well. M-D Instead of filing nodes you might try this methodI use. SNIP Tony Flytyr@southshore.com from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 14:46:38 2001 fABKkbH13652 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:46:37 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:46:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Flat head allen screws I can see your point, but I still don't see how this would keep the bars from being torqued between stations. It has been suggested to me thatperhaps the tolerance of the bolt to thread fit might have more to do withthis than what type of bolt head was used, and I think this has merit. M-D Jo Jo,On second thought I might be able to answer. Think of it like a tail stock center centering a piece of stock between the head stock and tail stock. The cone of the tail stock will center itself in the hole of the work piece and keep it centered with the head stock. I think for now that is the best I can do to answer.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 15:00:21 2001 fABL0KH14690 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:00:20 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:00:27 -0500 Subject: Re: relative humidity. John, I think I'd keep the strips in desiccant, regardless, but I don't think youare going to get enough adsorption to matter while planing the strips, norwhile doing the glue-up into a section. I'm pretty fastidious about keepingeverything in desiccant when not in use, and when possible. M-D Thanks, M-D I've been putting them strips in with a desicant, if I can't get them planed and glued up in a short period of time, but was wondering if I even neededto if the relative humidity is that low. In the summer-it gets up over 50%, so I make sure that the strips go in a desicant, but this time of year andespecially in winter, I can se humidities downt o low 30% and into upper 20% inthe shop. JohnK from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Nov 11 15:09:28 2001 fABL9RH15513 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:09:27 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:09:29 - Subject: Re: Diamond Compound Something I have just tried and seems to work well.I just polished the edge of a plane blade using a flex shaft. I have a Foredom flex shaft but there isn't any reason one of those Dremel mototools wouldn't work also. There are hard felt and soft felt buffs about an inch indiameter. Use the hard felt and diamond compound. Make sure you are polishing in the direction so that the edge of the buff won't catch and dig in to the edge. With my flex shaft the way it turns I have to polish with the hand piece in my right hand and the buff on the top of the blade. It's a little more work, but if you don't have a big powered buffing motor it seems to do just as good a job.Darryl Hayashida Something I have just tried and seems towork well.I just polished the edge of a plane blade using a flex shaft. I have a Foredomflex shaft but there isn't any reason one of those Dremel moto toolswouldn't work also. There are hard felt and soft felt buffs about an inchindiameter. Use the hard felt and diamond compound. Make sure you arepolishing in the direction so that the edge of the buff won't catch and dig into the edge. With my flex shaft the way it turns I have to polish with thehand piece in my right hand and the buff on the top of the blade. It's a littlemore work, but if you don't have a big powered buffing motor it seems to dojust as good a job.Darryl Hayashida from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Nov 11 15:09:54 2001 fABL9sH15606 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:09:54 -0600 fABLA0820401; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:10:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Flat head allen screws I do have a close fit between the threads and the bolt hole, that might be it.All I know it works for me. I know that dowel pins work but to me it seemstheywill bind if they fit tight. If loose then what good do they do to keepalignment.I might mention. the forms I made are from 1 1/2" by 5/8" X 52". bars. Thatiswhat I found in a scrap yard.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comJojo DeLancier wrote: I can see your point, but I still don't see how this would keep the bars from being torqued between stations. It has been suggested to me thatperhaps the tolerance of the bolt to thread fit might have more to do withthis than what type of bolt head was used, and I think this has merit. M-D From: "Tony Spezio" Jo Jo,On second thought I might be able to answer. Think of it like a tail stock center centering a piece of stock between the head stock and tail stock. Thecone of the tail stock will center itself in the hole of the work piece and keep it centered with the head stock. I think for now that is the best I can do to answer.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 11 15:24:05 2001 fABLO3H16580 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:24:04 - Sun,11 Nov 2001 16:24:06 -0500 Subject: Intermediate rod Because someone asked...I posted some shots of that one thread intermediate rod. Hope you like them.It is very hard to take good pics, sorry.http://www.powerfibers.com/mrod1.jpghttp://www.powerfibers.com/mrod2.jpghttp://www.powerfibers.com/mrod3.jpghttp://www.powerfibers.com/mrod4.jpg Best regards,Bob from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 11 15:26:16 2001 fABLQFH16890 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:26:15 - 11 Nov 2001 16:26:17 -0500 Subject: Waxing a rod Has anyone tried the Butcher's brand clear Bowling Alley Wax? It is carnubaand other waxes with mineral spirits, I believe. Someone had once mentionedButchers, but I was not sure if there were more than this product in theirline.Many thanks,Bob from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Nov 11 15:41:07 2001 fABLf6H17452 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:41:06 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod Bob, That's the kind I have used for years. Good stuff, and one can lasts a lifetime.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bob Maulucci wrote: Has anyone tried the Butcher's brand clear Bowling Alley Wax? It is carnubaand other waxes with mineral spirits, I believe. Someone had oncementionedButchers, but I was not sure if there were more than this product in theirline.Many thanks,Bob -- > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 11 16:04:46 2001 Received: from fABM4YD127238; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:04:35 -0800 Message-ID:Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:01:30 -0600 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] saltwein@worldnet.att.net CC: Rodmakers Subject: Re: SRG 2001 References:Content-Type: text/plain; fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENSteve Trauthwein wrote: Could someone supply me with the url for the page with the pictures from2001? TIA. Steve Steve, Here you go: http://www.curro.net/SRG/index2002.html --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Nov 11 16:25:58 2001 fABMPrH18724 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:25:58 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:25:58 - Subject: Diamond Compound and the Morgan handmill Harry Boyd's comment on using diamond compound on his customized carbide plane blades got me to thinking. The cutter inserts on the Morgan handmill are made out of carbide. What would the cutters be like if they were polished with diamound paste? Like I said before, my other hobby is jewelry makingand I already have the set up to polish small items like ring stones. The cutter inserts aren't too much different. So I polished them up, being careful to preserve the edges and boy oh boy, they are nice!Darryl Hayashida Harry Boyd's comment on using diamond compound on his customized carbideplane blades got me to thinking. The cutter inserts on the Morgan handmillare made out of carbide. What would the cutters be like if they were polishedwith diamound paste? Like I said before, my other hobby is jewelry makingand I already have the set up to polish small items like ring stones. Thecutter inserts aren't too much different. So I polished them up, being carefulto preserve the edges and boy oh boy, they are nice!Darryl Hayashida from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sun Nov 11 16:31:40 2001 fABMVdH19054 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:31:39 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4168. . Clean. Processed in 1.059618 secs); 11 Nov 200122:31:47 -0000 Subject: Re: filing nodes --------------5D226465C118FF4EECAD764B I split the culm in half and knock out the diaphrams with a gouge andmallet. I then split the whole culm up and plane the pith side flush andfile the node slightly in the bench vise and heat press. Call me"oldfashioned". Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Bret:I use my Hida star splitter to split to 8s. Then I file thediaphrams in my bench vise or with my disc sander. Then I split down.Then I flatten the split strips in my bench vise. I have been alsostraighteneing them in the new Waara jig I got from John Long. Worksnicely.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Grhghlndr@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 9:50 AM Subject: filing nodes Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culm andthinking about how the culm has the tendency to slide aroundon the workbench as you file. I thought to myself, "Therehas to be a better way to do this than just having the culmresting on the bench!" So I was wondering if I have thisproblem everyone else does too and I wondered how everyoneelse was doing this procedure. Here is what I came up withto eleviate this problem. I made a rack to hold the culmwhile I worked on it. Not only does the culm stay in placebut it is elevated too for a better angle to get at thenodes.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) --------------5D226465C118FF4EECAD764B I split the culm in half and knock out the diaphrams with a gouge and mallet.I then split the whole culm up and plane the pith side flush and file thenode slightly in the bench vise and heat press. Call me "oldfashioned".MartyBob Maulucci wrote: use my Hida star splitter to split to 8s. Then I file the diaphrams inmy bench vise or with my disc sander. Then I split down. Then I flattenthe split strips in my bench vise. I have been also straighteneing themin the new Waara jig I got from John Long. Worksnicely.Bob -----OriginalMessage-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf OfGrhghlndr@aol.comSent: Sunday, November11,2001 9:50 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: filingnodes Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culm andthinkingabout how the culm has the tendency to slide around on the workbench as has to be a better way to do this than just having the culm resting on else does too and I wondered how everyone else was doing this in place but it is elevated too for a better angle to get at thenodes.Bret(www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) --------------5D226465C118FF4EECAD764B-- from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 16:42:59 2001 fABMgwH19544 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:42:58 -0600 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:43:05 -0500 Subject: Re: SRG 2001 Darrin Curtis also had three ZIP files worth of photos on a web page thatcould be downloaded. I had the page bookmarked but deleted it after viewingthe photos. Darrin, what's the URL? M-D Steve Trauthwein wrote: Could someone supply me with the url for the page with the picturesfrom2001? TIA. Steve Steve, Here you go: http://www.curro.net/SRG/index2002.html --Harry Boyd from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 11 17:12:26 2001 fABNCPH20448 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:12:26 - Subject: Re: Waxing a rod I have used Butcher's Wax for over 30 years and it is great. I was given a huge can by Bernard Hills and this is what he used as well.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) I have used Butcher's Wax for over 30 years and it is as well.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sun Nov 11 18:04:11 2001 fAC04AH22596 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:04:10 -0600 fAC0FsWt015983; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:15:54 -0600 Subject: RE: SRG 2001 My URL is www.dcbambooflyrods.com. Anyone that wants to use any of myphotos feel free to do so. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: SRG 2001 Darrin Curtis also had three ZIP files worth of photos on a web page thatcould be downloaded. I had the page bookmarked but deleted it after viewingthe photos. Darrin, what's the URL? M-D Steve Trauthwein wrote: Could someone supply me with the url for the page with the picturesfrom2001? TIA. Steve Steve, Here you go: http://www.curro.net/SRG/index2002.html --Harry Boyd from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 11 18:13:35 2001 fAC0DZH23119 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:13:35 - ([209.178.134.68] helo=g2t8c9) id 1634j8-0000df-00; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:13:26 -0800 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod Never heard of the stuff. Where can we get some? Adam I have used Butcher's Wax for over 30 years and it is greatBret from splitcane@home.com Sun Nov 11 18:53:48 2001 fAC0rlH24771 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:53:47 - ;Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:53:50 -0800 Subject: Re: nodes Tony Spezno wrote to Jerry Foster: The first rod I made I just sanded the raw nodes flat, I think this was onone of the recommendations your post a couple of years ago. The first rodhas been used a lot and had caught over 300 fish with no ill effects ofsanding the nodes off. Hi All... I have always questioned the validity of heat pressing nodes in the firstplace, by observation I belive most vintage makers did not heat press thenodes. There are several reasons why I question the process... If your flaming a rod, buy the end of production the node has been heattreated three times and two times by other construction methods... The excess heat and or high heat has to damage the fiber walls, then whenpressed is it straitening the fibers are collapsing the fiber structure... This process seems to weaken the node by collapsing the fibers and makethemporn to tear out during planning and or other problems duringconstruction... So I ask are we doing more damage then good by heat pressing nodes? There's no doubt that both process's work and have worked for some time,butother then cosmetic reasons I see not benefit to the process. There's no doubt ( in my mine ) that heat treating the cane is verybeneficial to the performance of the rod, but if you heat treated the canealong with the nodes two or three times I do not think it would bebeneficial at all... These idea's have been bouncing around in my head for some time and wouldwelcome any research, comments or feedback on this issue... Take Care, Dave ( aka: Denver Dave ) from oandc@email.msn.com Sun Nov 11 19:00:35 2001 fAC10UH25254 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:00:35 - Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:59:42 -0800 Subject: Experiment FILETIME=[503ACA80:01C16B15] Got cut off again and stopped receiving posts. Did the list get the post I Thanks,Wayne from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 11 19:09:31 2001 fAC19UH25763 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:09:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Experiment No, no posts from you in a while, nor from anyone else, though this oneobviously came through. M-D Got cut off again and stopped receiving posts. Did the list get the post Isent on experimenting? Someone please get back to me and let me know.Thanks,Wayne from oandc@email.msn.com Sun Nov 11 19:30:48 2001 fAC1UmH26739 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:30:48 - Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:30:03 -0800 Subject: Experiment FILETIME=[8DB3CD90:01C16B19] All, I've been interested in doing some experimenting with heat and compressionon both strips and nodes. My tool building is on hold until the first of theyear so this would be a good time to do it. Basically I'd like to observethe changes in the power fibers cellular structure under a microscope beforeand after heat and heat with compression. If someone would like to send measmall box of say two or three inch strips and strips with nodes from theirscrap pile, I would be happy to reimberse for any shipping costs. The localcollege may have some microscopic photographic equipment that I mughtaccessas well. Please respond off list if your interested. Thanks,Wayne from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Nov 11 19:46:50 2001 fAC1knH27652 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:46:49 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:43:03 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Designs for real seats --------------D1B31AB5866E0227C15A9860 Rob,I don't think there are any detailed books on the subject, I believe JackHowell touches on it in his book.I there was a pattern for making a reel seat standard in one of theplaningforms, maybe in the "Best of the planing form" book too ?? I think most reelbuilderstoday stick pretty close to this standard, of course I'm sure there areexceptions,there always are.If no one can quote the issue #'s I can dig around and find them if youlike.Shawn "Robert R. Warholm" wrote: Are there any good books out there that cover this topic or carry suchdesigns etc? ( or could we start a plan archive of such things on the tipsite that has recently been started or on the main rod makers pagesimiliarto the taper archive. Additionally how do reel seat sizes vary for the Reel size / Line weightspecifications ( ie. Foot size?) --------------D1B31AB5866E0227C15A9860 Rob, detailedbooks on the subject, I believe Jack Howell touches on it in his book. makinga reel seat standard in one of the planing forms, maybe in the "Best ofthe planing form" book too ?? I think most reel builderstoday stick pretty close to this standard, of course I'm sure there areexceptions, there always are. #'s I can dig around and find them if you like. Shawn"Robert R. Warholm" wrote:Are there any good books out there that cover thistopic or carry suchdesigns etc? ( or could we start a plan archive of such things on thetipsite that has recently been started or on the main rod makers pagesimiliarto the taper archive.Additionally how do reel seat sizes vary for the Reel size / Line weightspecifications ( ie. Foot size?) --------------D1B31AB5866E0227C15A9860-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Nov 11 19:57:23 2001 fAC1vMH28298 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:57:22 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Here to stay! Thanks all for the kind words and advice. I've made a lot of friends hereand my daywould feel incomplete without this list. The rash of questions and answershere latelyhas reaffirmed my faith in the list!Great to see things back to normal again, now if we could just get somemore of the"Old Dogs" to start contributing again...Shawn from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Nov 11 20:00:03 2001 fAC202H28681 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:00:02 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:56:09 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Experiment Wayne,yes got your post,Shawn Wayne Kifer wrote: All, I've been interested in doing some experimenting with heat andcompressionon both strips and nodes. My tool building is on hold until the first of the from dickay@alltel.net Sun Nov 11 20:06:41 2001 fAC26fH29184 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:06:41 - srv.alltel.net Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:06:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Diamond Compound Peter, Tony, I was looking through a new Woodcraft catalog this afternoon.On page 86 there is a Diamond Paste Polishing Kit for $69.99. It includesseveral syringes of diamond paste and several pieces of MDF and a bottle oflubricant. It is indicated that this is a new item for them. On page 87 there are Leather Powerstrop Wheels that can be used in a drillor polishing heads. They include a stick of jeweler's rouge. A set of wheels is $31.75Try www.woodcraft.com Hope this helpsDick Fuhrman from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sun Nov 11 20:11:35 2001 fAC2BYH29610 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:11:34 - Subject: Re: Waxing a rod...Butchers vs Staples Hmmmm, I've been using Staples Premium Paste Wax, out of Merrimack, NewHampshire.The can says it's "imported carnauba with no beeswax or silicone". Doesanyone know how it compares to Butchers? David from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 11 21:34:29 2001 fAC3YTH02649 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:34:29 - (authenticated) for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:34:20 -0800 Subject: Bill Hoy Bill, If you're out there, please contact meoff-list. To the rest, sorry for the waste ofbandwidth.Harry from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 11 21:36:36 2001 fAC3aZH02916 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:36:35 - Subject: Re: Diamond Compound Boy, they were quick off the mark.I asked a wooden boat builder who lives in Washington State if he saw the article about MDF and diamond paste anywhere, he said it was in one of the WoodenBoat mags in the last 6-8 months and was written by a woman. Iwonder if she pinched the idea, marketed it or it is one of those things that springs to mind in several places at once as soon as the basic tools are available to do the job?I know it works but it's not possibly IDEAL for plane irons because the MDF gets chopped up by the edges so it may cause the edge to dish. Great for chisels though because the edges are a lot more narrow.Give the technique a go though, you'll be surprised at how well it works.Tony At 08:03 PM 11/11/01 -0600, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Peter, Tony, I was looking through a new Woodcraft catalog this afternoon.On page 86 there is a Diamond Paste Polishing Kit for $69.99. It includesseveral syringes of diamond paste and several pieces of MDF and a bottle oflubricant. It is indicated that this is a new item for them. On page 87 there are Leather Powerstrop Wheels that can be used in a drillor polishing heads. They include a stick of jeweler's rouge. A set of wheels is $31.75Try www.woodcraft.com Hope this helpsDick Fuhrman /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Sun Nov 11 21:41:15 2001 fAC3fDH03372 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:41:14 - for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:49:31 - Subject: Re: Waxing a rod Bob;It's the standard of the industry, as good as it gets.John Bob Maulucci wrote: Has anyone tried the Butcher's brand clear Bowling Alley Wax? It is carnubaand other waxes with mineral spirits, I believe. Someone had oncementionedButchers, but I was not sure if there were more than this product in theirline.Many thanks,Bob from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Sun Nov 11 21:43:59 2001 fAC3hrH03688 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:43:54 - Subject: Re: Designs for real seats Also there is some great articles about making reelseats in power fibers online magazine. www.powerfibers.com Joseph A Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536716-493-2637 from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 12 00:08:04 2001 fAC683H08260 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:08:03 - forged)) Subject: Re: Heating oven diameter Bill Hoy wrote: ...his plan calls for 7" diameter heating duct ... I used standard 8". I've had problems heating it up and getting even temperatures, and I'mguessing I should have gone with 6" instead. What size did you'all use? I used 6" for the outer and 4" for the interior. Be sure to insulate it withany good hi-temp fiberglass blanket or batting. Rick C. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Nov 12 03:45:23 2001 fAC9jMH12595 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 03:45:22 - fAC9jKv67588; Subject: Filing nodes I prop mine up on some old socks filled with sand, and that seems to holdthem very stable; has the advantage that it's as cheap as chips, and you canhave as many as you like. I use these socks for holding anything roughlycylindrical. I file my nodes minimally at this stage, and finish filing when the culm isdown, usually, to eight strips. The reasoning here is that I am then dealingwith a strip with less curvature, so I will remove relatively less bamboo ineliminating the node. The old sock full of sand is also a great infinitely variable weight for thebinder. Peter from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Nov 12 08:11:35 2001 fACEBUH15609 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:11:30 - Subject: granger ferrules Hey everyone,does anyone have any pictures/sketches/or descriptions of what type or style of ferrulethat Granger used on their "Victory" rods?The only thing I have to go by is the pic on the followinglink http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7762/ferrules.htm The 4wt taper in Howell's book has a .020 dropat the ferrule and was just wondering what would be the best type of ferrule to use on this rod. tiaBrad from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Nov 12 10:11:19 2001 fACGBJH20812 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:11:19 - Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:11:27 PST Subject: Digital Scale at reasonable cost Someone asked recently about a scale for measuring adhesives. etc. Micromark has a couple that are priced pretty reasonably. The linkbelow is for one that measures in .1 ounce increments up to about 4lbs for $35. No finanacial interest. http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/products/82331.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from mverschoore@msn.com Mon Nov 12 10:20:55 2001 fACGKtH21418 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:20:55 - Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:20:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Digital Scale at reasonable cost FILETIME=[E69B6F90:01C16B95] Its either Costco or BJ's that sells the EX2 for about $20-25Maurice ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Digital Scale at reasonable cost Someone asked recently about a scale for measuring adhesives. etc. Micromark has a couple that are priced pretty reasonably. The linkbelow is for one that measures in .1 ounce increments up to about 4lbs for $35. No finanacial interest. http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/products/82331.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 12 10:32:38 2001 fACGWcH22098 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:32:38 - fACGVj0P013350; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:31:45 -0600 "rodmakers" Subject: RE: Digital Scale at reasonable cost I got my scale at sames for around $20. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Digital Scale at reasonable cost Its either Costco or BJ's that sells the EX2 for about $20-25Maurice ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Digital Scale at reasonable cost Someone asked recently about a scale for measuring adhesives. etc. Micromark has a couple that are priced pretty reasonably. The linkbelow is for one that measures in .1 ounce increments up to about 4lbs for $35. No finanacial interest. http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/products/82331.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.yahoo.com from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Mon Nov 12 10:35:23 2001 fACGZMH22389 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:35:22 -0600 fACGZU0P016415 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:35:30 -0600 Subject: Scale I meant to say SAM's Club. Fingers and mind were not in sink. Darrin from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 12 10:36:24 2001 fACGaIH22543 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:36:22 - Subject: plane crash @ JFK Guys.turn on your TV's a plane crash at JFK. Approx 280 dead, cause unknown Tony. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Nov 12 10:44:12 2001 fACGiAH23199 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:44:11 - id ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:37:56 -0500 id V8NVMLWL; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:37:55 -0500 Subject: Re: plane crash @ JFK I've been listening to the radio for about an hour. Sounds like thecause is the plane lost an engine. Tony Young wrote: Guys.turn on your TV's a plane crash at JFK. Approx 280 dead, cause unknown Tony. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) /*************************************************************************/ -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 12 12:05:07 2001 Received: from From: "Art Port" "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" References: Subject: Re: Waxing a rod Date: Mon, 12 MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 anglport@con2.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I'llput Briwax ( By appointment to Her Majesty, harumph) up against it any day!AND you can get high using the stuff. It's used by most antiquers and comesin several shades for covering scratches (I suppose). I use only the clear, butif you're flaming a darker shade may be preferrable. Its carrier is toluene orsome other aromatic hydrocarbon. I find it doesn't leave swirls on furniturelike Butcher's. Pretty espensivo, though; about $14 the can (same size asButcher's) at antique dealers and Constantines in Bx NY, and probablyRestorers'catalogs. No yada-yada, acourse, ;^) Art >Fromoandc@email.msn.com Mon Nov 12 14:20:36 2001 Received: from Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:19:50 -0800 Message-ID:From: "Wayne Kifer" Subject: Fw: Test Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: oandc@email.msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I'mcurious Troy. Is 1026 a stressed relieved steel? Also, why is it harder towork? Higher level of carbon or chrome, etc? I agree, 50 bucks is not at allbad to eliminate all that filing. I had to do it the first time just for theexperience but I wouldn't mind avoiding it on my next set. I also won't useCRS again. First of the year I'm going to start on a 6' or 7' set with stationsat 2 1/2" for the last 15 inches of the but section. Does anyone have arecommendation for the right steel? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: PM Subject: RE: Test You don't need a CNC mill, just a long bed, high- precisionsurface grinder. I got my bars finished on three sides for 50 bucks. Beatsthe heck out of 50 hours of filing..... But as I mentioned to the list a couplemonths ago, I am using 1" X 1" bars made of 1026 steel. Hand work on theseis not as easy as on 3/4" CRS keystock. The one thing I will agree with is thatyou will probably not find a machine shop that can do the tapered groove aswell as you need it. That will be a hand operation no matter what. MHO -- TAM Test Thanks for the feedback MD. Thats why I ask these fool questions. Sosomeone with a little good sense can deter me from a few of my outlandish November 11, 2001 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Test Wayne, I've never made aform on CNC. The archives are full of horror stories from people who tried toget machinists to make their forms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne 11, 2001 12:47 AM Subject: Re: Test Yep,It would seem that I'm back in business. At least for the time being. By the way, you are a CNC man. Have you built a stainless form with a CNC mill? from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Nov 12 14:21:58 2001 fACKLvH03278 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:21:57 - Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:22:00 -0800 Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:22:00 GMT Subject: Re: granger ferrules FILETIME=[AF5672B0:01C16BB7] They all used the same ferrule. A leonard style that was drawn. You can still get the original from some place in Denver that bought the remaining stock from W&M. The newer ones are Monel not NS and will not blue(unless Dave L. comes up with another miracle!)A.J. From: "Brad Love" Subject: granger ferrulesDate: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:10:27 -0600 Hey everyone,does anyone have any pictures/sketches/or descriptions of what type or style of ferrulethat Granger used on their "Victory" rods?The only thing I have to go by is the pic on the followinglinkhttp://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7762/ferrules.htm The 4wt taper in Howell's book has a .020 dropat the ferrule and was just wondering what wouldbe the best type of ferrule to use on this rod. tiaBrad _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Nov 12 14:27:16 2001 fACKRFH03953 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:27:15 - Subject: Butchers Wax To the List,We use Butchers at our NJ Ag Museum and it has been common practice =with many curators to restore and maintain artifacts. A high = I use it on my cane rods. Seems to be fine. That's not to say that =other waxes might not be better. Bill To the List, has been common practice with many curators to restore and maintain = high recommendation. These birds are tough. = Bill from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Mon Nov 12 14:40:02 2001 fACKe1H04721 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:40:01 - for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:40:08 - Subject: Snake Guides FriendsI'an placing an order for snake guides with Tom Moran and If you are interested I can increase the order. Tom will be making 3/0, 2/0, 1/0, 1, and 2 sizes The cost is 85 cents which includesthe shipping and inport cost. Of the top 3 H+H, Snake Brand Mildren I like the guides that Tom is making. The cost is for flattened feet and unground Perfection style guide.Best Hal. from jim_hecht@hotmail.com Mon Nov 12 16:27:58 2001 fACMRuH09748 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:27:56 - Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:27:42 -0800 Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:27:42 GMT Subject: reel seat inserts FILETIME=[3EB71930:01C16BC9] Any tips to avoid burn marks when routing the mortise on light colored woods? Moving the insert more quickly obviously minimizes it, but I'm still having some problems. Wondering if anyone has found an easy solution. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Nov 12 16:46:55 2001 fACMkpH10964 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:46:55 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id OAA19299; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:46:55 - ETAuAhUAsT+zlhJenTYjW6gxB9iCo9mdp5QCFQCf7BZhcK64t175Fl6l4Ypk2NaGIw== Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Nov 2001 17:27:42 -0500 Jim - I have a seperate speed control on my router. It is possible toreally slow it down. Especially bad deal to use hi-speed on any fruitwoods. I use a lot of apple wood and cherry. Lots of people sell thecontrols - ie: Trend-line Tools, Grizzly etc. Regards, Jerry Young from rextutor@about.com Mon Nov 12 17:30:34 2001 fACNUWH13122 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:30:33 - (NPlex 5.5.029) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: granger ferrules I think you can get one at Rick's Rods 2066 S Huron St Denver, CO (303) 778-7911 . This is the fellow who bought out W&M. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from bydesign@cfw.com Mon Nov 12 17:38:24 2001 fACNcJH13587 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:38:24 - 0500 Subject: Get the dings out... I have a W-M Granger uplock reelseat that I will put on a restoration of =a Granger rod. There are several dings and dents in it that the owner =doesn't want there. Without making it egg-shaped I am a bit lost as to =how I can push those back out. I am thinking of wooden dowels rounded =on the end. Or dowels longitudinally cut in half , or some sort of =expansion anchor wrapped in cloth to perhaps expand from the inside. =You guys ingenious quite often--any ideas? ThanksRich Young I have a W-M Granger uplock reelseat = ThanksRichYoung from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Nov 12 17:45:13 2001 fACNjCH14110 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:12 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4169. . Clean. Processed in 0.486983 secs); 12 Nov 200123:45:17 -0000 Subject: Re: granger ferrules List, Does anyone know who bought the remaining stock of W/M. I need acouplemales for a 7 1/2' and 8 ' grangers. If so the Email or phone # will behelpfull. Thanks, Marty'Allen Thramer wrote: They all used the same ferrule. A leonard style that was drawn. You canstill get the original from some place in Denver that bought the remainingstock from W&M. The newer ones are Monel not NS and will not blue(unlessDave L. comes up with another miracle!)A.J. From: "Brad Love" Subject: granger ferrulesDate: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:10:27 -0600 Hey everyone,does anyone have any pictures/sketches/or descriptions of what type or style of ferrulethat Granger used on their "Victory" rods?The only thing I have to go by is the pic on the followinglinkhttp://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7762/ferrules.htm The 4wt taper in Howell's book has a .020 dropat the ferrule and was just wondering what wouldbe the best type of ferrule to use on this rod. tiaBrad _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 12 18:04:53 2001 fAD04qH15016 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:04:52 -0600 helo=default) id 163R4S-0006Qg-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:04:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod Yes, well I use Renaissance Wax (also by appointment to Her Majesty) --quite superior in every way to those more common pedestrian varieties;butchers and bowling alleys, indeed. :^ ? M-D I'll put Briwax ( By appointment to Her Majesty, harumph) up against it any day! AND you can get high using the stuff. It's used by most antiquers andcomes in several shades for covering scratches (I suppose). I use only theclear, but if you're flaming a darker shade may be preferrable. Its carrier is toluene or some other aromatic hydrocarbon. I find it doesn't leaveswirls on furniture like Butcher's. Pretty espensivo, though; about $14 the can (same size as Butcher's) at antique dealers and Constantines in Bx NY,and probably Restorers'catalogs.No yada-yada, acourse, ;^)Art from channer@frontier.net Mon Nov 12 18:22:51 2001 fAD0MnH15562 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:22:50 - for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:31:11 - Subject: Re: reel seat inserts James;When routing any thing, he who hesitates is lost, keep it moving at alltimes and pull it away from the material at the end of the cut.JohnJames Hecht wrote: Any tips to avoid burn marks when routing the mortise on light coloredwoods? Moving the insert more quickly obviously minimizes it, but I'm stillhaving some problems. Wondering if anyone has found an easy solution. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from channer@frontier.net Mon Nov 12 18:36:22 2001 fAD0aLH16178 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:36:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod Her Majesty can put that stuff where the sun don't shine, American madewax on American made rods!!!!!!!!!John Jojo DeLancier wrote: Yes, well I use Renaissance Wax (also by appointment to Her Majesty) --quite superior in every way to those more common pedestrian varieties; butchers and bowling alleys, indeed. :^ ? from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Mon Nov 12 19:05:30 2001 fAD15RH17062 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:05:27 - fAD0Gga10160 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:16:42 -0300 Subject: Casualidad Hola a todos. Yo estaba leyendo mensajes atrasados. Encontre este de =Jhon Long. Casualmente a mi me ocurrio este mismo problema en una vara. =Yo habia leido el libro de Marinaro. Entonces comence a dise=F1ar una =ca=F1a , con un perfil parabolico y a su vez que tubiera una accion de =punta. Yo la termine y coloque los ferrules, la barnice. Despues de unos =dias, yo apreciaba que mi ca=F1a estaba torcida. Yo le aplicaba calor =con la pistola de aire caliente, y la enderzaba. Al otro dia ella estaba =torcida de nuevo.Nunca la pude enderzar. Esa ca=F1a era la numero 13. ==BF seria el numero de ca=F1a? Cuando yo termine de construir la ca=F1a =numero 14 ella estaba derecha. Nunca mas tuve ese problema. Yo no se que=pudo pasar para que mi numero 13 estuviera torcida. =BFAlguien tiene una = Tony fuerza que usted debe integrar el equipo de futbol de EEUU, en el =mundial de Corea y Japon :-))))). Saludos a todos afectuosamente. =Alberto ( La avispa roja.) Hello to all. I was reading late messages. I found east of Jhon Long. =Accidentally to my it happened me this same problem in a stick. I had =read the book of Marinaro. Then I began to design a cane, with a =parabolic profile and in turn that tubiera a tip action. I finish it and =place the ferrules, lacquer it. After some days, I appreciated that my =cane was bent. I applied him heat with the hot-air gun, and the =enderzaba. On the following day she was twisted again. I never could her =enderzar. That cane was I number it 13. serious the I number of cane? =When I finish building the cane I number 14 she was right. Never but I =had that problem. Me not you that it could happen so that my I number 13 =it was bent. Does somebody have an idea? In another topic. I hope Tony =recovers of his knee. We go Tony it forces that you should integrate the =team of soccer of USA, in the World cup of Korea and Japan: -))))). = Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 10:39 PMSubject: No answer for this one: About 7 or 8 years ago, Bill Waara and I helped a guy get started =making rods. He had a very unusual problem develop which I have never =been able to figure out.He finished a rod (not his first), put the ferrules on and varnished =the blank. After the blank had been hanging for about two weeks the =butt section became bowed so much that if you tied a string end to end, =the string would have been at least 3" from the mid point.I told him how to straighten it and that it might wreck the varnish, =which it did. He got it straight and re-varnished again. After a week =or so it did it again, the same amount of bow in it. I have never seen =this before or since. Anybody out there encountered this or have an =answer? Hola a todos. Yo estaba leyendo mensajes atrasados. Encontre este de = Long. Casualmente a mi me ocurrio este mismo problema en una vara. Yo = leido el libro de Marinaro. Entonces comence a dise=F1ar una ca=F1a , = parabolico y a su vez que tubiera una accion de punta. Yo la termine y = los ferrules, la barnice. Despues de unos dias, yo apreciaba que mi = torcida. Yo le aplicaba calor con la pistola de aire caliente, y la = Al otro dia ella estaba torcida de nuevo.Nunca la pude enderzar. Esa = numero 13. =BF seria el numero de ca=F1a? Cuando yo termine de construir= numero 14 ella estaba derecha. Nunca mas tuve ese problema. Yo no se que= pasar para que mi numero 13 estuviera torcida. =BFAlguien tiene una = tema. Espero que Tony se recupere de su rodilla. Vamos Tony fuerza que = debe integrar el equipo de futbol de EEUU, en el mundial de Corea y = :-))))). Saludos a todos afectuosamente. Alberto ( La avispa =roja.)Hello to all. I was reading late messages. I found east of Jhon Long. = Accidentally to my it happened me this same problem in a stick. I had = book of Marinaro. Then I began to design a cane, with a parabolic = turn that tubiera a tip action. I finish it and place the ferrules, = After some days, I appreciated that my cane was bent. I applied him heat = the hot-air gun, and the enderzaba. On the following day she was twisted = I never could her enderzar. That cane was I number it 13. serious the I = of cane? When I finish building the cane I number 14 she was right. = had that problem. Me not you that it could happen so that my I number 13 = bent. Does somebody have an idea? In another topic. I hope Tony recovers = knee. We go Tony it forces that you should integrate the team of soccer = in the World cup of Korea and Japan: -))))). Greetings to all = Alberto (The red wasp. ) ----- Original Message ----- John = Sent: Wednesday, November 07, = PMSubject: No answer for this =one: About 7 or 8 years ago, Bill Waara and I helped a guy get started = to figure out.He finished a rod (not his first), put the ferrules on and = butt section became bowed so much that if you tied a string end to = I told him how to straighten it and that it might wreck the = answer? from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Nov 12 19:13:54 2001 fAD1DrH17742 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:13:53 - Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Hi Jim,That's a tough one. I still get burn marks, on light colored woods. I very carefully sand them off, after I'm finishedrouting the filler. I haven't found any way to get away from it. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Nov 12 19:23:31 2001 fAD1NUH18371 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:23:30 -0600 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:23:31 -0500 Subject: Granger & Phillipson Fellows:Here's a link to source for Granger & Phillipson stuff. I've bought =Phillipson ferrules here.Edhttp://www.ricksrods.com/ Fellows:Here's a link to source for Granger = here.Edhttp://www.ricksrods.com/ from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Nov 12 19:32:38 2001 fAD1WaH18891 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:32:37 - for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:32:42 -0500 Subject: Re: reel seat inserts I do the same a Dave.I carefully sand the mark out.:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I do the same a Dave.I carefully sand the mark out.:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 12 19:36:20 2001 fAD1aKH19253 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:36:20 -0600 helo=default) id 163SV1-0001rU-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:36:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod And will you be using American made silk, cork, and bamboo on those rods,John? ;^? M-D Her Majesty can put that stuff where the sun don't shine, American madewax on American made rods!!!!!!!!!John Jojo DeLancier wrote: Yes, well I use Renaissance Wax (also by appointment to Her Majesty) --quite superior in every way to those more common pedestrian varieties;butchers and bowling alleys, indeed. :^ ? from channer@frontier.net Mon Nov 12 20:16:19 2001 fAD2GIH20574 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:16:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod M=D;Guess you got me there, I was hoping you wouldn't notice, LOLJohn Jojo DeLancier wrote: And will you be using American made silk, cork, and bamboo on those rods,John? ;^? M-D From: "channer" Her Majesty can put that stuff where the sun don't shine, Americanmadewax on American made rods!!!!!!!!!John from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Nov 12 20:34:24 2001 fAD2YNH21286 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:34:24 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:30:49 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Designs for real seats Joe,that's right I knew there was one superb source I was forgetting tomention,Thanks,Shawn Eastkoyfly@aol.com wrote: Also there is some great articles about making reelseats in power fibersonline magazine. www.powerfibers.com Joseph A Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536716-493-2637 from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Nov 12 21:21:16 2001 fAD3LGH22492 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:21:16 - 0000 (63.228.46.127) Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Slow the router down-----Original Message----- Subject: reel seat inserts Any tips to avoid burn marks when routing the mortise on light coloredwoods? Moving the insert more quickly obviously minimizes it, but I'm still having some problems. Wondering if anyone has found an easy solution. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Nov 12 21:28:50 2001 fAD3ShH22844 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:28:47 - Subject: Re: reel seat inserts fAD3SoH22852 I second the keep it moving, butnever back up. Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/12/01 at 5:24 PM channer wrote: James;When routing any thing, he who hesitates is lost, keep it moving at alltimes and pull it away from the material at the end of the cut.JohnJames Hecht wrote: Any tips to avoid burn marks when routing the mortise on light coloredwoods? Moving the insert more quickly obviously minimizes it, but I'm still having some problems. Wondering if anyone has found an easy solution. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Nov 12 21:49:18 2001 fAD3n3H23603 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:49:04 -0600 Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:49:08 +1100 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod FILETIME=[261B3A50:01C16BF6] MD: What would you think of a wax part beeswax and part macadamia oil.On tung oil varnish. The description says "beeswax repels water & othersubstances while macadamia oil quickly penetrates to soften and nourishthe leather." Maybe I'll try it on an old rod and see if there is ameltdown. Sean Jojo DeLancier wrote: Yes, well I use Renaissance Wax (also by appointment to Her Majesty) --quite superior in every way to those more common pedestrian varieties;butchers and bowling alleys, indeed. :^ | M-D From: "Art Port" I'll put Briwax ( By appointment to Her Majesty, harumph) up against it any day! AND you can get high using the stuff. It's used by most antiquersandcomes in several shades for covering scratches (I suppose). I use onlytheclear, but if you're flaming a darker shade may be preferrable. Its carrier is toluene or some other aromatic hydrocarbon. I find it doesn't leaveswirls on furniture like Butcher's. Pretty espensivo, though; about $14 the can (same size as Butcher's) at antique dealers and Constantines in BxNY,and probably Restorers'catalogs.No yada-yada, acourse, ;^)Art from Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com Mon Nov 12 22:02:15 2001 fAD42DH24086 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:02:13 - Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:02:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Butchers Wax FILETIME=[F5310850:01C16BF7] Why is waxing necessary if a rod has been properly finished? Subject: Butchers Wax To the List,We use Butchers at our NJ Ag Museum and it has been common practice =with many curators to restore and maintain artifacts. A high = I use it on my cane rods. Seems to be fine. That's not to say that =other waxes might not be better. Bill Why is waxing necessary if a rod has = finished? ----- Original Message ----- Fink Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001= AMSubject: Butchers Wax To the List, has been common practice with many curators to restore and maintain = A high recommendation. These birds are tough. Bill from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Nov 12 22:24:14 2001 fAD4ODH24779 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:24:13 - for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:24:11 - Subject: Plane groove width and depth I've aquired a few bench planes from ebay, and as I take a break fromsanding in a groove on the sole of one of them, it occurs to me that I've never seen any advice on how wide and how deep a groove should be. So I'll put forth my opinion. I like my grooves to be 5/8 of an inch wide. I've tried 1/2 inch and 3/4 of an inch wide. At 1/2 inch wide I can't keep the bamboo strip in the groove all the time when I start getting a little tired and a little sloppy. 3/4 of an inch wide, I slip off the shoulder and nick my forms sometimes when I get tired. 5/8ths seems to be just right. On a roughing plane I sandpaper in a groove .005 to .006 deep. I measure it with a depth gauge - the same one you measure the depth on your forms. Ona finishing plane I like the groove to be .002 to .003 deep. I use the two pieces of wood and a strip of sandpaper method to sand in rhe grooves onmy planes.Darryl Hayashida I'veaquired a few bench planes from ebay, and as I take a break from sanding ina groove on the sole of one of them, it occurs to me that I've never seen anyadvice on how wide and how deep a groove should be. So I'll put forth myopinion. I like my grooves to be 5/8 of an inch wide. I've tried 1/2 inch and 3/4of an inch wide. At 1/2 inch wide I can't keep the bamboo strip in the grooveall the time when I start getting a little tired and a little sloppy. 3/4 of aninch wide, I slip off the shoulder and nick my forms sometimes when I gettired. 5/8ths seems to be just right. On a roughing plane I sandpaper in a groove .005 to .006 deep. Imeasure it with a depth gauge - the same one you measure the depth on yourforms. On a finishing plane I like the groove to be .002 to .003 deep. I use thetwo pieces of wood and a strip of sandpaper method to sand in rhe grooveson my planes.Darryl Hayashida from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Mon Nov 12 22:26:30 2001 fAD4QTH24966 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:26:29 - Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:26:37 PST Subject: Re: Get the dings out... Hi Rich, You could try those things you mentioned and see howit goes. A couple of other options: There areprobably people on this list, or restorationists thatmight have this same reelseat in better condition youcould buy as a part. Also, flute makers, or windinstrument repair businesses can return this type ofstructure to perfect condition. You could get anestimate on removing the dents on your reelseat anddecide if it's worth it. I visited the shop of a localflute maker when picking up my daughters flute whichhe had restored. It looked like he had both metalbars/anvils as well as some that appeared as ahardwood of some kind. I assumed he used these forremoving dings and reshaping the instruments. Good luck. Chris. --- Beth Young wrote: I have a W-M Granger uplock reelseat that I will puton a restoration of a Granger rod. There areseveral dings and dents in it that the owner doesn'twant there. Without making it egg-shaped I am a bitlost as to how I can push those back out. I amthinking of wooden dowels rounded on the end. Ordowels longitudinally cut in half , or some sort ofexpansion anchor wrapped in cloth to perhaps expand from the inside. You guys ingenious quiteoften--any ideas? ThanksRich Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Nov 12 22:29:03 2001 fAD4T2H25190 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:29:02 - for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:29:06 - Subject: Re: Butchers Wax Wax cleans the rod, gives it a little bit of a shinier finish and keeps sun screen, bug repellent, fish slime, etc. form sticking or at least from leaving a permament stain.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/12/01 8:19:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com writes: Why is waxing necessary if a rod has been properly finished? Wax cleans the rod, gives it a little bit of a shinier finish and keeps sunscreen, bug repellent, fish slime, etc. form sticking or at least from leaving apermament stain.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/12/01 8:19:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,Mark_Dyba@hotmail.com writes:Why is waxingnecessary if a rod has been properly finished? from anglport@con2.com Mon Nov 12 22:36:55 2001 fAD4aoH25666 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:36:50 - Subject: Re: Butchers Wax--Question Now you've made me think of something else. Don't some (at least car) =waxes have UV inhibitors in them? Not there's a reason to wax, if I'm =right!Art Now you've made me think of something= some (at least car) waxes have UV inhibitors in them? Not there's a = wax, if I'm right!Art from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 12 22:36:56 2001 fAD4atH25669 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:36:55 -0600 12 Nov 2001 20:37:00 PST Subject: Re: Waxing a rod "...: What would you think of a wax part beeswax and part macadamia oil. sounds good enough to eat! --- Sean McSharry wrote: MD: What would you think of a wax part beeswax andpart macadamia oil.On tung oil varnish. The description says "beeswax ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Nov 12 22:40:35 2001 fAD4eYH26131 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:40:34 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:40:39 +1100 Subject: Re: Butchers Wax FILETIME=[58ADD610:01C16BFD] Mark: We had a load of waterproofing research on the list a year agothat showed no varnish is fully waterproof, but that wax (don't rememberthe type, but look at the choices) was almost completely waterproof. So,mainly for waterproofing. Sean Mark Dyba wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: quoted-printable from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Nov 12 22:42:03 2001 fAD4g2H26277 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:42:03 -0600 Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:42:08 +1100 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod FILETIME=[8D644060:01C16BFD] You first, timothy! Sean timothy troester wrote: "...: What would you think of a wax part beeswax and part macadamia oil. sounds good enough to eat! --- Sean McSharry wrote: MD: What would you think of a wax part beeswax andpart macadamia oil.On tung oil varnish. The description says "beeswax ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Nov 12 23:42:15 2001 fAD5g9H28159 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:42:14 - helo=g2t8c9) id 163WKq-0003Rq-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:42:13 -0800 Subject: cork dipping Just a question, Why do so many makers dip the finish onto the cork? Adam Vigil from homes-sold@home.com Tue Nov 13 05:03:57 2001 fADB3qH01762 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 05:03:52 - femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:03:55 -0800 Subject: Plane groove width and depth Darryl, I think there should be a consideration for how wide a plane groove can =or should be compared to the width of the forms you are using. Most =forms out there are made from =BE bar stock, so if that is what you are =using, your preference of a 5/8 groove gives you a little extra surface =before you fall off the forms compared to a =BE groove and a =BD groove =doesn't give you much leeway to skew the plane at times from a parallel =to length pass. I may catch some flak for this but I personally like to use wooden forms =made from 1 =BC stock. This gives me a much wider and more stable =platform to work from and I find nothing is lost in accuracy over =BE =bar stock metal forms. My planes have =BE grooves, which gives me more =leeway when I skew the cut and if I fall off the form, it is defiantly =time for a break. I like your idea of having your finish plane groove depth at .002 -.003, =mine are .005. The smaller depth shouldn't allow the strip to be lifted =out of the form as much. Don I've aquired a few bench planes from ebay, and as I take a break from =sanding in a groove on the sole of one of them, it occurs to me that =I've never seen any advice on how wide and how deep a groove should be. = Darryl,I think there should be a consideration for how wide a plane groove = should be compared to the width of the forms you are using. Most forms = are made from =BE bar stock, so if that is what you are using, your = a 5/8 groove gives youa = surface before you fall off the forms compared to a =BE groove and a =BD = doesn’t give you much leeway to skew the plane at times from a = length pass.I may catch some flak for this but I personally like to use wooden = from 1 =BC stock. This gives me a much wider and more stable platform to = and I find nothing is lost in accuracy over =BE bar stock metal forms. = have =BE grooves, which gives me more leeway when I skew the cut and if = the form, it is defiantly time for a break.I like your idea of having your finish plane groove depth at .002 = are .005. The smaller depth shouldn’t allow the strip to be lifted = form as much.Don From:DNHayashida@aol.com sanding in a groove on the sole of one of them, it occurs to me that = seen any advice on how wide and how deep a groove should be. So I'll put = my opinion. . Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Nov 13 06:03:12 2001 fADC3BH02554 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 06:03:11 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 05:03:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Butchers Wax Sean, The wax is parafin [ candle wax ] - no others were mentioned or tested. regards, Don At 03:43 PM 11/13/01 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote: Mark: We had a load of waterproofing research on the list a year agothat showed no varnish is fully waterproof, but that wax (don't rememberthe type, but look at the choices) was almost completely waterproof. So,mainly for waterproofing. Sean Mark Dyba wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: quoted-printable from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Tue Nov 13 06:15:52 2001 fADCFpH02890 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 06:15:51 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:16:00 - Subject: Re: Waxing a rod I just had to wonder about the subject of this thread when I first saw it. Kinda like waxing a dolphin....... mark At 08:37 PM 11/12/2001 -0800, you wrote: "...: What would you think of a wax part beeswax and part macadamia oil. sounds good enough to eat! --- Sean McSharry wrote: MD: What would you think of a wax part beeswax andpart macadamia oil.On tung oil varnish. The description says "beeswax ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Nov 13 06:56:06 2001 fADCu5H03599 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 06:56:05 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Butchers Wax Mark, Wax is a great vapor barrier, far better than varnish. But the real clincher for me happened about ten years ago. I took a newly varnished rod (the varnish was hard and aged for a few weeks) to the stream without waxxing it. When I left the river that day, the butt of the rod sported marks where the DEET (insect repellant) from my hands had eaten right through the varnish.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Mark Dyba wrote: Why is waxing necessary if a rod has been properly finished? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 13 07:00:27 2001 fADD0QH03836 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:00:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod We used to make a wax out of beeswax and lemon oil that was great on gunstocks (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) We used to make a wax out of beeswax and lemon oil thatwas great on gunstocks (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Nov 13 08:15:23 2001 fADEFMH05347 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:15:22 - IAA04710 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:15:31 Subject: Re: Plane groove width and depth I mentioned this on the list years ago... After putting a shallow groove (.003) groove in my finish plane withsandpaper, I was looking for an easier way to do a deep groove inmy roughing plane. So I scribed the bottom of the plane, markingout the strip to be removed, but leaving 1/2 inch at the toe, heel,and on each side of the mouth. The material in between I removedwith a machinist's scraper. Then with the sandpaper strips I cutdown the remaining 4 spots to the desired depth. Later I added theJohn Bokstrom training wheels and it really works well. This idea is not original with me; I got it from the Fine Woodworkingbook on "Planes and Chisels". As I recall, "relieved" plane soles arecommon in Japan. I also "relieved" my plane blade on the grinder, so I am just sharpeningthe middle that does the cutting.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Nov 13 08:37:46 2001 fADEbjH06797 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:37:45 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:37:44 -0500 Subject: Re: U.S.P.S. damage FILETIME=[C1CC4DE0:01C16C50] I've noticed that I get very good service from UPS if I order things from the east coast ( i live in Virginia) Anything from west of the Mississippi is a crapshoot. I've been told that the UPS guys out there are brutal with packages, depending on their mood. Just my personal experience and what I've heard. bill At 11:08 AM 11/10/2001 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote: When I was making those other kind of rods I had some problems with UPS.,Two different times there were TIRE Marks on the crushed tubes. Still havenot collected.I have had it with UPS.I also had one crushed sent Priority Mail that was crushed in the middle.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jerry Young wrote: I know the world changed after 9-11 but I have run into something Ithink people should be aware of. Last week I bought a Heddon tip off ofEbay and like always have asked it to be shipped in a sturdy tube. Ifthey didn't have one I would forward one. Use the tubes that my nicklesilver bar is shipped to me by motor freight. They are very sturdy andabout 3/8" thick. Also forwarded, different time and different postoffice, two tubes to other people who could forward rods to me forrefinishing. All three tubes were broken in half. The people tell methere were marks on the tubes where they were forced.Resent PVC tubes by Fedex and they got through OK.One of our local businesses got a postal package with a hole through thebox and the explanation was that it was pierced with a steel bar so thesniffer dogs could check it. Unfortunatly it was full of electroniccircuit boards.Any one else run into this? Jerry Young from harms1@pa.net Tue Nov 13 08:41:43 2001 fADEfcH07192 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:41:42 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:39:56 - Subject: Super-Z All, I have a couple questions for the histor buffs among us. Does anyone happen to know exactly what it was that Louis Feierabendchangedon the earlier "Swiss type" ferrule to warrant his 1952 patent? I read in George Herter's 1949 "Rod Building Manual" that: "Swiss type ferrules, although used here for a great many years,failed to gain any popularity until after World War II. They aresuperior in every way to the conventional types of ferrules thatare in general use here. The reason they are not widely used onall rods is that ferrule makers were already tooled up for otherferrules when they became familiar with Swiss-type ferrules.Tooling up for ferrule making is no small item." (p.39) The popularity of the Swiss type ferrule shortly after the war (to whichHerter refers) was, however, Feierabend's "Super-Z" development, and nottheoriginal Swiss style. Yet, Herter does not mention either Feierabend or the"Super-Z." A drawing on that same page of Herter's manual shows the earlier Swiss- tupeferrule. But apart from the fact that the larger diameter of the femaletube is not smoothly tapered down toward the serrated end, I can see littleappreciable differenc bertween it and the "Super-Z" as designed just afterthe mid-1940s by Feierabend. Would anyone happen to know when the earlier Swiss-type ferrule made itsappearance in this country, and why it gained so little attention? I findHerter's explanation (above) altogether unconvincing, as recognizablysuperior products always find their way to the marketplace. What did Feierabend do to the the earlier Swiss ferrule, such that his"Super- Z" would suddenly gain popularity (where the Swiss type did not), andearn its own (1952) patent? Lastly, Herter says that: "Herters were one of the first companies to offerSwiss ferrules to the public and they are now available in a price rangesuitable for everyone." (p. 40) I assume Herter, writing in 1949, to bereferring to the earlier Swiss design (rather than to the "Super-Z"), andyet I find no reference to either of these two ferrules in question in the1948 Herter's catalogue("Fly Tying, Rod Making Materials And Tools" No.56). Can anyone shed a little light? Was George Herter "blowin' smoke," or is itjust that the information is incomplete? cheers, Bill from steve@hamiltonrods.com Tue Nov 13 08:43:51 2001 fADEhoH07580 Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:44:26 -0500 Subject: Re: cork dipping FILETIME=[B1531F10:01C16C51] fADEhoH07581 Subject: cork dipping Why do so many makers dip the finish onto the cork? I always assumed it was to prevent moisture from seeping in under the corkand damaging the blank beneath it. As for why some makers dip all the wayup to the first inch or so of the cork, I'd guess that's decorative as much asanything else. --Steve from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Nov 13 09:02:38 2001 fADF2bH08541 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:02:37 - 0000 (63.228.45.58) Subject: Re: Super-Z Having cut my eye-teeth on the old Herters catalogs and remembering thehypethat they used to contain. I think that George Leonard sometimes becameintoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Super-Z All, I have a couple questions for the histor buffs among us. Does anyone happen to know exactly what it was that Louis Feierabend changed on the earlier "Swiss type" ferrule to warrant his 1952 patent? I read in George Herter's 1949 "Rod Building Manual" that: "Swiss type ferrules, although used here for a great many years,failed to gain any popularity until after World War II. They aresuperior in every way to the conventional types of ferrules thatare in general use here. The reason they are not widely used onall rods is that ferrule makers were already tooled up for otherferrules when they became familiar with Swiss-type ferrules.Tooling up for ferrule making is no small item." (p.39) The popularity of the Swiss type ferrule shortly after the war (to whichHerter refers) was, however, Feierabend's "Super-Z" development, and not the original Swiss style. Yet, Herter does not mention either Feierabend or the "Super-Z." A drawing on that same page of Herter's manual shows the earlier Swiss- tupeferrule. But apart from the fact that the larger diameter of the femaletube is not smoothly tapered down toward the serrated end, I can see littleappreciable differenc bertween it and the "Super-Z" as designed just afterthe mid-1940s by Feierabend. Would anyone happen to know when the earlier Swiss-type ferrule made itsappearance in this country, and why it gained so little attention? I findHerter's explanation (above) altogether unconvincing, as recognizablysuperior products always find their way to the marketplace. What did Feierabend do to the the earlier Swiss ferrule, such that his"Super- Z" would suddenly gain popularity (where the Swiss type did not), and earn its own (1952) patent? Lastly, Herter says that: "Herters were one of the first companies to offer Swiss ferrules to the public and they are now available in a price rangesuitable for everyone." (p. 40) I assume Herter, writing in 1949, to bereferring to the earlier Swiss design (rather than to the "Super-Z"), andyet I find no reference to either of these two ferrules in question in the1948 Herter's catalogue("Fly Tying, Rod Making Materials And Tools" No.56). Can anyone shed a little light? Was George Herter "blowin' smoke," or is it just that the information is incomplete? cheers, Bill from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 09:16:20 2001 fADFGJH09245 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:16:20 -0600 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:16:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Super-Z I wouldn't think that catalogs should be relied upon as great repositoriesof rod history, other than the facts they may contain, such as pictures, andpossibly prices and dimensions; too much marketing hyperbole. M-D Having cut my eye-teeth on the old Herters catalogs and remembering the hype that they used to contain. I think that George Leonard sometimes becameintoxicated by the exuberance of his own verbosity.Dave from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Nov 13 09:19:39 2001 fADFJcH09644 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:19:39 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:19:51 -0500 Subject: Re: filing nodes FILETIME=[A425C310:01C16C56] I know this may be blasphemy, but I've found that a 1" belt sander with a fine belt works wonders and saves gobs of time. I split into thirds, then take the strip to the sander and just kiss the belt to the node. Don't use the platten behind the belt, but take it up a little higher where the belt runs free. If you press it against the platen you will probably take off too much. But up where there is some give in the belt it's pretty easy to control, especially if you take the edge off the belt on other materials to make it kinda dull. The belt tends to curve lenghtwise, so the sanded part is less than an inch, closer to half an inch. Takes only a few seconds per node. Really saves time if you do it before you split into individual strips. I also use the sander to hollow out a shallow half moon on the pith side of the node to give room for displacement in pressing. Start on the platen to take out the bulk of the node and slide it up to the free area to gently hollow out the node. The sander has a 1-1/4" port to accept the hose from a small shopvac,which virtually eliminates dust. Only downside is the noise, but it saves so much time, it's worth it. I'd rather be planing than filing. It's one of the few power tools I wouldn't do without ( and I'm a dedicated handtool user). The Delta cost about $80 from Lowes, Craftsman has amodel finished. Can't say enough good about this device! Saves time, but better, it gives PERFECT triangles. The beveller is REALLY noisy, tho. Use ear plugs. Bill At 09:50 AM 11/11/2001 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Quite awhile back I was filing some nodes on a culm and thinking about how the culm has the tendency to slide around on the workbench as you file. I thought to myself, "There has to be a better way to do this than just having the culm resting on the bench!" So I was wondering if I have this problem everyone else does too and I wondered how everyone else was doing this procedure. Here is what I came up with to eleviate this problem. I made a rack to hold the culm while I worked on it. Not only does the culm stay in place but it is elevated too for a better angle to get at the nodes.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Tue Nov 13 10:14:17 2001 fADGEGH12187 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:14:16 -0600 Subject: Re: relative humidity. Thanks again, M-D. That's what I will continue to do. John K.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: relative humidity. John, I think I'd keep the strips in desiccant, regardless, but I don't think you are going to get enough adsorption to matter while planing the strips, norwhile doing the glue-up into a section. I'm pretty fastidious about keeping everything in desiccant when not in use, and when possible. M-D From: "John Kenealy" Thanks, M-D I've been putting them strips in with a desicant, if I can't get them planed and glued up in a short period of time, but was wondering if I even needed to if the relative humidity is that low. In the summer-it gets up over 50%, so I make sure that the strips go in a desicant, but this time of year and especially in winter, I can se humidities downt o low 30% and into upper 20% inthe shop. JohnK from stoltz10@home.com Tue Nov 13 12:27:49 2001 fADIRnH18508 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:27:49 - femail35.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: allowence for glue I'm making a 209E taper from Frank's hexrod page. My question is do I =need to subtract from the final dimension to allow for the glue or is =this already figured into the taper dimension as it is listed? Tim I'm making a 209E taper from Frank's = allow for the glue or is this already figured into the taper dimension = listed? Tim from oandc@email.msn.com Tue Nov 13 12:38:03 2001 fADIc2H19314 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:38:02 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:37:17 -0800 Subject: Testing FILETIME=[38F92C50:01C16C72] One more time from oandc@email.msn.com Tue Nov 13 12:56:34 2001 fADIuXH20185 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:56:34 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:55:49 -0800 Subject: Hello? FILETIME=[CF85E7B0:01C16C74] Anyone out there today or am I still not receiving all the posts.? Wayne from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Nov 13 13:04:46 2001 fADJ4jH20680 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:04:46 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:04:46+0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Hello? You are with us Wayne:-) danny From: "Wayne Kifer" Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:57:49 -0800 Subject: Hello? Anyone out there today or am I still not receiving all the posts.? Wayne from beaconplumb@earthlink.net Tue Nov 13 13:08:22 2001 fADJ8HH20971 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:08:22 - ([63.214.83.183] helo=earthlink.net) id 163iv3-0007NY-00; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:08:26 -0800 James Hecht Subject: reel seat inserts.. I avoid burn marks by using a beading tool. You can use the same jigthat you use for the router and set the guide on the beading tool. Theblades can be shaped with a file so you can have any profile you want. Iuse it on American Holly reelseats with good results. Lie-neilson makesa great beading tool with a guide or you can just shape a scraper andclamp a guide on it. I ruin a lot less wood and I get less sawdust in mycoffee. Of course if you have to use a power tool, you can turn on yourrouter and just set it nearby. Willis from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 13 13:20:42 2001 fADJKfH21839 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:20:41 -0600 13 Nov 2001 11:20:46 PST Subject: Re: allowence for glue tim, my understanding is as far as garrison's tapersis that the dementions reflect directly planingdementions not final dementions. dementions that aregathered from measuring finished rods include theglue. it sort of depends on how the numbers arearrived at. i have built rods both ways and the endresults were different. my conclusion is that gluewhether .003 or .010 in thickness does not effect thetaper as to function. this was frustrating to me and ibuilt matching tapers last winter and this is what iconcluded. timothy --- Tim Stoltz wrote: I'm making a 209E taper from Frank's hexrod page. My question is do I need to subtract from the finaldimension to allow for the glue or is this alreadyfigured into the taper dimension as it is listed? Tim ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Nov 13 14:10:44 2001 fADKAhH24811 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:10:43 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:09:06 - Subject: Re: Plane groove width and depth You see, that is the problem. You said it years ago. There are probably 200 people on the list now that haven't seen it. "Look in the archives" makes for a very boring list.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/13/01 6:16:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: I mentioned this on the list years ago... You see, that is the problem. You said it years ago. There are probably 200people on the list now that haven't seen it. "Look in the archives" makes fora very boring list.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/13/01 6:16:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: I mentioned this on thelist years ago... from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Nov 13 14:18:13 2001 fADKIBH26427 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:18:11 - Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:16:16 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:16:16 +0800 and Collecting Subject: RE: Hello? Hi Wayne, I can hear you, loud and clear, all the way down here in theland of Oz. It's just after 4-00AM here and I'm at work early .....so I canget some done.May the parabolic force grow within youMike -----Original Message----- Subject: Hello? Anyone out there today or am I still not receiving all the posts.? Wayne from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Nov 13 14:42:24 2001 fADKgOH01971 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:42:24 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:42:24 - Subject: Look in the Archives I first got started in bamboo rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the old fly fishing usenet mail group by Bruce Conner. He would post that FAQ about once a month. The first time I saw it I read it and thought it was interesting. The next few times I deleted it without looking at it - just old stuff. Then I saw it again, read it again, started thinking - I just might be able to do this rodmaking thing. I was lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone liked to talk about everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by reading other people's messages. Over the years a lot of us have become quite jaded -Been There, Done That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty of this as much as anybody. But, the vitality of this list has been drained. Perhaps this is the normal course for internet lists, but if we want to avoid this we should start talking about the basics again - for the newbies and for the oldtimers who might pick up something new. That's why I have tried to start threads like Plane Setup 101. Like Bruce's FAQ ( which is at http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if you are interested) I mightnot be interested in it now, but later I might be. A newbie might not even know the keywords to search for in the archives.Darryl Hayashida I first got started in bamboo rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the oldfly fishing usenet mail group by Bruce Conner. He would post that FAQ aboutonce a month. The first time I saw it I read it and thought it was interesting.The next few times I deleted it without looking at it - just old stuff. Then Isaw it again, read it again, started thinking - I just might be able to do thisrodmaking thing. I was lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone liked to talkabout everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by reading other people'smessages. Over the years a lot of us have become quite jaded - Been There,Done That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty of this as much as anybody. But,the vitality of this list has been drained. Perhaps this is the normal course the basics again - for the newbies and for the oldtimers who might pick upsomething new. That's why I have tried to start threads like Plane Setup101. Like Bruce's FAQ ( which is athttp://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if you are interested) I mightnot be interested in it now, but later I might be. A newbie might not evenknow the keywords to search for in the archives.Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Tue Nov 13 14:44:19 2001 fADKiIH02523 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:44:18 - Subject: A question for the "PU" boys Hi!I just started a G*****te rod for my TU chapter's raffle and ordered =a prebuilt Struble grip for it. When I got the thing I found its bore to =be just a hair big for the blank at the front end. I'm pretty sure that =I can slather enough epoxy on it to fill the gap, but I was wondering if =the polyurethane glue would do a better job, what with its foaming =action (sounds like Ajax, no?, floats the dirt, right down the drain, =ba-ba-ba-ba-boom!).Any opinions (HAH!)? Or any third alternatives? I'm afraid that when =I slide the grip down the blank it'll drag the epoxy with it and starve =the front where I need the filler. Will the PU continue to foam even =after the grip[ is in place and will the foam provide support, or just =powder up in time?TIA,Art Hi! I got the thing I found its bore to be just a hair big for the blank at = front end. I'm pretty sure that I can slather enough epoxy on it to fill = gap, but I was wondering if the polyurethane glue would do a better job, = with its foaming action (sounds like Ajax, no?, floats the dirt, right = drain, ba-ba-ba-ba-boom!). (HAH!)? = third alternatives? I'm afraid that when I slide the grip down the blank = drag the epoxy with it and starve the front where I need the filler. = continue to foam even after the grip[ is in place and will the foam = support, or just powder up in time?TIA,Art from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Tue Nov 13 14:50:37 2001 fADKoaH04224 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:50:36 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:50:29 -0800 Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:50:29 GMT Subject: re: Reel Seats FILETIME=[D461B2E0:01C16C84] On light woods, I take a series of light cuts, about three, and nudge the fence a little after each cut until I get to the desired depth of mortise. Hogging the whole thing off in one shot always gets me in trouble....KABOOM! #!*&#!Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from oandc@email.msn.com Tue Nov 13 15:31:33 2001 fADLVWH13621 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:31:32 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:31:49 -0800 Subject: RE: Look in the Archives FILETIME=[9ACC2000:01C16C8A] As a newbe I have to say I heartily agree with Darryl on this. Reading theseposts daily has been a great help. I shudder to think of the mistakes Iwould have made without it. It's understandable that all the rehash wouldget boring for all you old timers but as there isn't a standard for topics,nor would it always work if there was one, searching the archives isn't thefinal answer. How about a weekly topic? Darryl's Plane setup 101, or PlaningForm Mistakes to Avoid, Helpful jigs Everyone Needs, or Oven ConstructionBasics. There is a wealth of information out there in the differentapproaches each of you take. Start a new the thread the beginning of eachweek and we'd have an online seminar if everyone would give it a littleinput. Especially from you old guys. Just a thought to kick around. Wayne Normal0DocumentEmail As=a newbeI have to say I heartily agree with Darryl on this. Reading these posts =dailyhas been a great help. I shudder to think of the mistakes I would have =madewithout it. It’s understandable that all the rehash would get =boring for allyou old timers but as there isn’t a standard for topics, nor would =it alwayswork if there was one, searching the archives isn’t the final =answer. How abouta weekly topic? Darryl’s Plane setup 101, or Planing Form Mistakes =to Avoid, Helpfuljigs Everyone Needs, or Oven Construction Basics. There is a wealth ofinformation out there in the different approaches each of you take. =Start a newthe thread the beginning of each week and we’d have an online =seminar ifeveryone would give it a little input. Especially from you old guys. =Just athought to kick around. Wa=yne from homes-sold@home.com Tue Nov 13 15:33:18 2001 fADLXCH14012 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:33:17 - femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:33:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Darryl,Well said. I started much the same as you, Bruce Conner's list, them =this list. I picked up an awful lot of useful information just reading =the list and once in a while asking a question to help me get started. = That said, I've written an article on how to build forms that may help =someone get started or just look at the process in a different light. It =is a different approach than Tom's well written procedure. If the list =wants me to post it I'd be glad to and we can rip it apart if you wish. =Be fore warned its 6 pages long, about 70K. I don't have a website but =if someone does and wants to post it, fine by me.Don Subject: Look in the Archives I first got started in bamboo rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the =old fly fishing usenet mail group by Bruce Conner. He would post that =FAQ about once a month. The first time I saw it I read it and thought it =was interesting. The next few times I deleted it without looking at it - =just old stuff. Then I saw it again, read it again, started thinking - I =just might be able to do this rodmaking thing. I was lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone =liked to talk about everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by =reading other people's messages. Over the years a lot of us have become =quite jaded - Been There, Done That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty =of this as much as anybody. But, the vitality of this list has been =drained. Perhaps this is the normal course for internet lists, but if we =want to avoid this we should start talking about the basics again - for =the newbies and for the oldtimers who might pick up something new. =That's why I have tried to start threads like Plane Setup 101. Like =Bruce's FAQ ( which is at http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if =you are interested) I might not be interested in it now, but later I =might be. A newbie might not even know the keywords to search for in the =archives.Darryl Hayashida Darryl,Well said. I started much the same as = Conner's list, them this list. I picked up an awful lot of useful = just reading the list and once in a while asking a question to help me = started. It is time to give something back. That said, I've written an article on = forms that may help someone get started or just look at the process in a = different light. It is a different approach than Tom's well written = If the list wants me to post it I'd be glad to and we can rip it apart = wish. Be fore warned its 6 pages long, about 70K. I don't have a website = someone does and wants to post it, fine by me.Don From:DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:42 PMSubject: Look in the ArchivesI first gotstarted in = rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the old fly fishing usenet mail = Bruce Conner. He would post that FAQ about once a month. The first time = I read it and thought it was interesting. The next few times I deleted = without looking at it - just old stuff. Then I saw it again, read it = started thinking - I just might be able to do this rodmaking = lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone liked to = about everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by reading other = messages. Over the years a lot of us have become quite jaded - Been = That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty of this as much as anybody. But, = vitality of this list has been drained. Perhaps this is the normal = internet lists, but if we want to avoid this we should start talking = basics again - for the newbies and for the oldtimers who might pick up = new. That's why I have tried to start threads like Plane Setup 101. Like = FAQ ( which is at http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if you interested) I might not be interested in it now, but later I might be. A = might not even know the keywords to search for in the = Hayashida from stoltz10@home.com Tue Nov 13 15:40:29 2001 fADLeRH15768 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:40:27 - femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: gorilla glue Has anyone used this glue for gluing up a blank and if so how was it? Tim Has anyone used this glue for gluing up= if so how was it? Tim from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 13 16:05:55 2001 fADM5rH21292 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:05:53 - Subject: RE: gorilla glue Works great except for the clean up. I must say however, that I have no rodsover 3 years old with them. I do not know wjat will happen 15 years fromnow, but they are straight and stiff now.Bob-----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:34 PM Subject: gorilla glue Has anyone used this glue for gluing up a blank and if so how was it? Tim except for the clean up. I must say however, that I have no rods over 3 = old with them. I do not know wjat will happen 15 years from now, but = straight and stiff now.Bob StoltzSent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:34 = glueHas anyone used this glue for gluing = and if so how was it? Tim from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Nov 13 16:06:45 2001 fADM6iH21536 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:06:44 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:06:32 - 1113170631; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:06:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Daryll, Your post on plane grooving is very timely for me as I am in the process rightnow of grooving my new block plane. How do you secure the strips of sandpaper so that the groove can be formed? Thanks, Kyle In a message dated Tue, 13 Nov 2001 3:43:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,DNHayashida@aol.com writes: I first got started in bamboo rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the oldfly fishing usenet mail group by Bruce Conner. He would post that FAQ aboutonce a month. The first time I saw it I read it and thought it was interesting.The next few times I deleted it without looking at it - just old stuff. Then Isaw it again, read it again, started thinking - I just might be able to do thisrodmaking thing. I was lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone liked to talkabout everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by reading other people'smessages. Over the years a lot of us have become quite jaded - Been There,Done That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty of this as much as anybody. But,the vitality of this list has been drained. Perhaps this is the normal course the basics again - for the newbies and for the oldtimers who might pick upsomething new. That's why I have tried to start threads like Plane Setup101. Like Bruce's FAQ ( which is athttp://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if you are interested) I mightnot be interested in it now, but later I might be. A newbie might not evenknow the keywords to search for in the archives. Darryl Hayashida from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Nov 13 16:09:46 2001 fADM9jH22375 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:09:45 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:09:51 +0000 Subject: Re: gorilla glue Bob,Whats this about the cleanup, is it a troublesome animal to work with ? from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Nov 13 16:17:58 2001 fADMHvH24468 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:17:57 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:17:40 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:17:58 -0800 Subject: RE: Look in the Archives Double sticky cellophane (not masking) tape.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:07 PM Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Daryll, Your post on plane grooving is very timely for me as I am in the processright now of grooving my new block plane. How do you secure the strips ofsand paper so that the groove can be formed? Thanks, Kyle In a message dated Tue, 13 Nov 2001 3:43:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,DNHayashida@aol.com writes: I first got started in bamboo rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the old fly fishing usenet mail group by Bruce Conner. He would post that FAQabout once a month. The first time I saw it I read it and thought it wasinteresting. The next few times I deleted it without looking at it - justold stuff. Then I saw it again, read it again, started thinking - I justmight be able to do this rodmaking thing. I was lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone liked to talk about everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by readingother people's messages. Over the years a lot of us have become quitejaded - Been There, Done That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty of thisas much as anybody. But, the vitality of this list has been drained.Perhaps this is the normal course for internet lists, but if we want toavoid this we should start talking about the basics again - for thenewbies and for the oldtimers who might pick up something new. That'swhyI have tried to start threads like Plane Setup 101. Like Bruce's FAQ (which is at http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if you areinterested) I might not be interested in it now, but later I might be. Anewbie might not even know the keywords to search for in the archives. Darryl Hayashida This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Nov 13 16:47:24 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fADMlNH00700 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:47:23 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:47:32 -0600 Subject: RE: A question for the "PU" boys this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Art -- I've use PU for this and it keeps foaming. Only issue is that you'llstill need to make sure the blank is centered in the front end where thehole is too big. Once the PU sets you won't want to have to removeit.....Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: A question for the "PU" boys Hi!I just started a G*****te rod for my TU chapter's raffle and ordered aprebuilt Struble grip for it. When I got the thing I found its bore to bejust a hair big for the blank at the front end. I'm pretty sure that I canslather enough epoxy on it to fill the gap, but I was wondering if thepolyurethane glue would do a better job, what with its foaming action(sounds like Ajax, no?, floats the dirt, right down the drain,ba-ba-ba-ba-boom!).Any opinions (HAH!)? Or any third alternatives? I'm afraid that when Islide the grip down the blank it'll drag the epoxy with it and starve thefront where I need the filler. Will the PU continue to foam even after thegrip[ is in place and will the foam provide support, or just powder up intime?TIA,Art Art -- I've use PU for this and it keeps foaming. Only issue is that you'll still need to make sure the blank is centered in the front end where the hole is too big. Once the PU sets you won't want to have to remove it.....Barry -----Original Message-----From: Art Port 2001 2:43 question for the "PU" boysHi! G*****te rod When I got the thing I found its bore to be just a hair big for the blank at the front end. I'm pretty sure that I can slather enough epoxy on it to fill the gap, but I was wondering if the polyurethane glue would do a better job, what with its foaming action (sounds like Ajax, no?, floats the dirt, right down the drain, ba-ba-ba-ba-boom!). any third alternatives? I'm afraid that when I slide the grip down the blank it'll drag the epoxy with it and starve the front where I need the filler. Will the PU continue to foam even after the grip[ is in place and will the foamprovide support, or just powder up in time?TIA,Art from rextutor@about.com Tue Nov 13 17:34:06 2001 fADNY5H08243 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:34:06 - (NPlex 5.5.029) 2001 15:27:18 -0800 Subject: Re: Re: Look in the Archives DonI think your instructions are great . I haven;t studied them in detail but they look very professional.You can view them at http://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.docDo you know how easy it is to have a web site ?space at no cost ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from irish-george@chartermi.net Tue Nov 13 18:49:09 2001 fAE0n9H10771 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:49:09 - 2001 19:49:12 -0500 Subject: Re: U.S.P.S. damage I've had damage with UPS, USPS, and FedEx. I think the rate of damage withUPS is about 5-6 times what I've had with the others. Believe it or not,I've gotten the gentlest handling from USPS. Two other disturbing problemsI've had with UPS is just leaving packages on the doorstep that have bigstickers saying "Adult Signature Required" (was a Leonard rod sittingoutside all day in a city of a million people) and the inability to find apackage (on FOUR occasions attempting to pick-up the SAME package...thistime a Howells rod). Of course, FedEx split open Tom Morgan's woodenshipping crate for the mill and bent a faceplate (1/4" thick aluminum) on aCrown tape recorder in a shipping crate. from what I've seen, ALWAYSinsure George ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: U.S.P.S. damage I've noticed that I get very good service from UPS if I order things fromthe east coast ( i live in Virginia) Anything from west of the Mississippi is a crapshoot. I've been told thatthe UPS guys out there are brutal with packages, depending on their mood.Just my personal experience and what I've heard. bill At 11:08 AM 11/10/2001 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote: When I was making those other kind of rods I had some problems withUPS.,Two different times there were TIRE Marks on the crushed tubes. Still have not collected.I have had it with UPS.I also had one crushed sent Priority Mail that was crushed in the middle.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jerry Young wrote: I know the world changed after 9-11 but I have run into something Ithink people should be aware of. Last week I bought a Heddon tip off of Ebay and like always have asked it to be shipped in a sturdy tube. Ifthey didn't have one I would forward one. Use the tubes that my nickle silver bar is shipped to me by motor freight. They are very sturdy and about 3/8" thick. Also forwarded, different time and different postoffice, two tubes to other people who could forward rods to me forrefinishing. All three tubes were broken in half. The people tell methere were marks on the tubes where they were forced.Resent PVC tubes by Fedex and they got through OK.One of our local businesses got a postal package with a hole through the box and the explanation was that it was pierced with a steel bar so the sniffer dogs could check it. Unfortunatly it was full of electroniccircuit boards.Any one else run into this? Jerry Young from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 13 19:24:59 2001 fAE1OwH12335 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:24:58 - 13 Nov 2001 20:24:56 -0500 Subject: foil labels Could someone share with me a source for foil labels that one might use onrod tubes? I have seen a bunch of sites and wondered if anyone had successin finding them.Thanks,Bob from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Nov 13 19:28:31 2001 fAE1SVH12635 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:28:31 -0600 Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:28:29 -0800 Wed, 14 Nov 2001 01:28:29 GMT Subject: Re: A question for the "PU" boys FILETIME=[AA3BAE90:01C16CAB] Helo Art: front where it meets the cork, just put some masking tape there, around theshaft of the rod until you have a tight fit. Be sure to check to make sure adhesive you want to use. I use epoxy and put some on both sides of the tapeand I usually put tape on both ends of the wood filler so I get a near perfect Jim and ordered a prebuilt Struble grip for it. When I got the thing I found itsbore to be just a hair big for the blank at the front end. I'm pretty sure that Ican slather enough epoxy on it to fill the gap, but I was wondering if thepolyurethane glue would do a better job, what with its foaming action (soundslike Ajax, no?, floats the dirt, right down the drain, ba-ba-ba-ba- boom!). that when I slide the grip down the blank it'll drag the epoxy with it andstarve the front where I need the filler. Will the PU continue to foam evenafter the grip[ is in place and will the foam provide support, or just powderup in time? Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 13 19:38:58 2001 fAE1cuH13384 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:38:56 - 0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2)Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 Subject: Re: Look in the Archives RexYour link didn't work for me.Ralph Rex Tutor wrote: DonI think your instructions are great . I haven;t studied them in detail but they look very professional.You can view them at http://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.docDo you know how easy it is to have a web site ?space at no cost ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com . from beadman@mac.com Tue Nov 13 19:44:33 2001 fAE1iWH13901 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:44:32 - Subject: Re: Look in the Archives At 6:36 PM -0700 11/13/01, Ralph W. Moon wrote: RexYour link didn't work for me.Ralph Rex Tutor wrote: DonI think your instructions are great . I haven;t studied them in detail but they look very professional.You can view them athttp://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.docDo you know how easy it is to have a web site ?space at no cost ?thanks, The last few letters of the link are on the next line. You can cut and paste them together to make it work. For future reference, if you put angle brackets at each end of the URL, most email programs will recognize this as a URL and will not break it apart with end-of-line characters. Such as: Claude from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Tue Nov 13 19:51:01 2001 fAE1p0H14377 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:51:00 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:51:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Reel Seats One the subject of wood inserts for reel seats, it just seems to me that onecould make a tool to duplicate inserts reel quick and easily. I keep thinking that one could make something that looks very similar to aMedved Beveler. Have a router mounted permanently to a fisture, a fencethat would accomodate the insert and an adjustment screw that would allowyou to fine turn the amount of cut you were taking. Strap the insert intosome sort of carrier on the fence, run it til it hits a stop on the fenceand then pull the fence away from the bit. I've made a couple insert with my router but I have to set up each time andit is somewhat of a pain to get it all aligned properly. With the above youcould dedicate the contraption for inserts only. Does anyone have any additional ideas along that line or am I approachingthe problem all wrong? Tim from rkrees@mcn.net Tue Nov 13 19:55:17 2001 fAE1tGH14783 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:55:16 - RAA09916 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:55:20 - Subject: RE. U.S.P.S. damage Here is a good one for the group. We all know how good the cane is fromDemarest so no need to go into this but in my area they ship Yellow Freight.In the past I have received a culm or two that has had slight damage but afew months ago I get a bale that looks like it has literally has been runover by a truck!. After weeks of fighting with Hanson Freight the companyYellow transfeered to I get a check for $100.55 and this Note"In Review of your claim" " Our investigations show that this product issplit into strips, thus creating the final product." LOLRon from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Tue Nov 13 19:57:33 2001 fAE1vSH15084 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:57:28 - Subject: power fibers mag hello out there, Iam trying to download or just read the magazine. I cannot down load any =previous issues. So I've tried to read an article in the July 2001 issue =and it hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having the same problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont hello out there, Iam trying to download or just read the= cannot down load any previous issues. So I've tried to read an article = July 2001 issue and it hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having the = problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont from cw@vanion.com Tue Nov 13 20:00:14 2001 fAE20DH15393 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:00:13 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:05:02 - Subject: Reelseat components I'd like to make a Garrison type reelseat, cap & ring, cork spacer. Can =someone on this board direct me to someone who sells them? I'd like to make a Garrison type = & ring, cork spacer. Can someone on this board direct me to someone = sells them?Thanks, = from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 20:06:33 2001 fAE26XH15820 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:06:33 -0600 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:06:30 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers mag No problems here. I just downloaded both the October 2000 and July 2001 = M-D hello out there, Iam trying to download or just read the magazine. I cannot down load =any previous issues. So I've tried to read an article in the July 2001 =issue and it hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having the same =problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont No problems here. Ijust = M-D christman hello out there, Iam trying to download or just read = I cannot down load any previous issues. So I've tried to read an = the July 2001 issue and it hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having = same problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 20:07:23 2001 fAE27MH15933 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:07:22 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:07:28 - Subject: Re: Reelseat components M-C Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:00 PMSubject: Reelseat components I'd like to make a Garrison type reelseat, cap & ring, cork spacer. =Can someone on this board direct me to someone who sells them? M-C ----- Original Message ----- chadwigham = Sent: Tuesday, November 13, = PMSubject: Reelseat =components I'd like to make a Garrison type = & ring, cork spacer. Can someone on this board direct me to = sells them? from frank.haran@sympatico.ca Tue Nov 13 20:14:27 2001 fAE2EQH16367 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:14:26 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:14:13 -0500 Subject: RE: Look in the Archives Hi Don,I am just about to start building my forms ala Thomas Penrose's site.Begged, borrowed and bought every thing for doing this except the key- stockwhich I plan on buying this week. So I would be very interested in seeingyour procedure. You can just send them too me offlist.Many Thanks,Frank. ps I also agree with Darryl.-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Darryl,Well said. I started much the same as you, Bruce Conner's list, them thislist. I picked up an awful lot of useful information just reading the listand once in a while asking a question to help me get started. It is time togive something back.That said, I've written an article on how to build forms that may helpsomeone get started or just look at the process in a different light. It isa different approach than Tom's well written procedure. If the list wants meto post it I'd be glad to and we can rip it apart if you wish. Be forewarned its 6 pages long, about 70K. I don't have a website but if someonedoes and wants to post it, fine by me.Don----- Original Message -----From: DNHayashida@aol.com Subject: Look in the Archives I first got started in bamboo rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the oldfly fishing usenet mail group by Bruce Conner. He would post that FAQ aboutonce a month. The first time I saw it I read it and thought it wasinteresting. The next few times I deleted it without looking at it - justold stuff. Then I saw it again, read it again, started thinking - I justmight be able to do this rodmaking thing. I was lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone likedto talk about everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by reading otherpeople's messages. Over the years a lot of us have become quite jaded -BeenThere, Done That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty of this as much asanybody. But, the vitality of this list has been drained. Perhaps this isthe normal course for internet lists, but if we want to avoid this we shouldstart talking about the basics again - for the newbies and for the oldtimerswho might pick up something new. That's why I have tried to start threadslike Plane Setup 101. Like Bruce's FAQ ( which is athttp://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if you are interested) I mightnotbe interested in it now, but later I might be. A newbie might not even knowthe keywords to search for in the archives.Darryl Hayashida Don, borrowed and bought every thing for doing this except the key-stock = offlist. Thanks,Frank. also agree with Darryl. SchneiderSent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:33 = DNHayashida@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:Re: = the ArchivesDarryl,Well said. I started much the same as = Conner's list, them this list. I picked up an awful lot of useful = just reading the list and once in a while asking a question to help me = started. It is time to give something back. That said, I've written an article on = build forms that may help someone get started or just look at the = different light. It is a different approach than Tom's well written = If the list wants me to post it I'd be glad to and we can rip it apart = wish. Be fore warned its 6 pages long, about 70K. I don't have a = Don From:DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:42 PMSubject: Look in the ArchivesI first gotstarted = rodmaking when I saw a FAQ posted in the old fly fishing usenet mail = Bruce Conner. He would post that FAQ about once a month. The first = it I read it and thought it was interesting. The next few times I = without looking at it - just old stuff. Then I saw it again, read it = started thinking - I just might be able to do this rodmaking = was lucky. I joined this list when it first started, and everyone = talk about everything. I picked up a lot of knowledge by reading other = people's messages. Over the years a lot of us have become quite jaded = There, Done That. Look In The Archives. I am guilty of this as much as = anybody. But, the vitality of this list has been drained. Perhaps this = normal course for internet lists, but if we want to avoid this we = talking about the basics again - for the newbies and for the oldtimers = might pick up something new. That's why I have tried to start threads = http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html if you are interested) I = be interested in it now, but later I might be. A newbie might not even = the keywords to search for in the archives.Darryl =Hayashida from robertgkope@home.com Tue Nov 13 20:20:19 2001 fAE2KIH16723 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:20:18 - femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Re: Butchers Wax--Question Most spar varnishes have a UV inhibitor, but I don't think waxes do. -- Robert Subject: Re: Butchers Wax--Question Now you've made me think of something else. Don't some (at least car) =waxes have UV inhibitors in them? Not there's a reason to wax, if I'm =right!Art Most spar varnishes have a UV = don't think waxes do. -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- Art =Port Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Butchers =Wax--Question Now you've made me think of something= some (at least car) waxes have UV inhibitors in them? Not there's a = wax, if I'm right!Art from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Nov 13 20:23:06 2001 fAE2N5H16981 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:23:05 - Subject: Re: power fibers mag I've been meaning to ask a similar question. I can get at #4 & #5, but none of the others. I had downloaded them before (on another computer) but now-- no luck. Regards, Steve Dunn. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 20:49:48 2001 fAE2nmH18342 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:49:48 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:49:50 - Subject: Re: power fibers mag Steve, I just downloaded the January 2001 issue. No problems. Perhaps you need toallow ActiveX controls in the Tools/Internet Options/ Security/ CustomLevel? M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers mag I've been meaning to ask a similar question. I can get at #4 & #5, but none of the others. I had downloaded them before (on another computer) but now -- no luck. Regards, Steve Dunn. from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 13 20:59:44 2001 fAE2xhH19058 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:59:43 - "bamboo" Subject: RE: power fibers mag Hi Jim:I have not experienced any difficulties. I have a Mac at school with a T1and a PC running XP with a cable moden at home. I have been making a habitof checking in and downloading issues every day or so. I have had noproblems. Most problems I have encountered seem to be IMHO on the enduserside of things.Maybe there is a cost effective way of shipping CDs to everyone. Would it beworth a small subscription fee to anybody?Best regards,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:01 PM Subject: power fibers mag hello out there, Iam trying to download or just read the magazine. I cannot down load anyprevious issues. So I've tried to read an article in the July 2001 issue andit hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having the same problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont Jim: experienced any difficulties. I have a Mac at school with a T1 and a PC = XP with a cable moden at home. I have been making a habit of checking in = downloading issues every day or so. I have had no problems. Most = encountered seem to be IMHO on the end user side of things. = regards, christmanSent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:01 = bambooSubject: power fibers maghello out there, Iam trying to download or just read = I cannot down load any previous issues. So I've tried to read an = the July 2001 issue and it hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having = same problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont from robertgkope@home.com Tue Nov 13 21:01:45 2001 fAE31iH19315 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:01:44 -0600 femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Re: allowence for glue I cannot address how demented Garrison may or may not have been, but hismathematics are definitely based on the final dimensions of the rod, not thesize of strips. The action of a rod is determined by the final dimensions,and what's in the middle is pretty much irrelevant. If you use a glue thatdoesn't contain granular particles (i.e., Epoxy, Pro Bond, Urac without thepowdered catalyst), the glue shouldn't add more than a thousandth or so.When I switched from resorcinol to polyurethane glue, my blanks suddenlywent from being .005-.008 oversize to being within about .001 of designdimensions when I sand the glue off. -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: allowence for glue tim, my understanding is as far as garrison's tapersis that the dementions reflect directly planingdementions not final dementions. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Nov 13 21:05:16 2001 fAE35FH19717 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:05:15 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: power fibers mag MD, Shouldn't matter, but may. Every computer has it's quirks. I have myActive-X control disabled and can still open Powerfibers. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers mag Steve, I just downloaded the January 2001 issue. No problems. Perhaps you needtoallow ActiveX controls in the Tools/Internet Options/ Security/ CustomLevel? M-D ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 8:23 PMSubject: Re: power fibers mag I've been meaning to ask a similar question. I can get at #4 & #5, but none of the others. I had downloaded them before (on another computer) but now -- no luck. Regards, Steve Dunn. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 21:08:41 2001 fAE38eH20125 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:08:40 -0600 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:08:45 -0500 Subject: Re: allowence for glue As has been discussed recently, one may expect a .005 increase in theoverall dimension, flat to flat, from the use of Epon. This would beconsistent with my own experiences, as well. Multiply a .001 glue line times5. M-D SNIP If you use a glue thatdoesn't contain granular particles (i.e., Epoxy, Pro Bond, Urac without the powdered catalyst), the glue shouldn't add more than a thousandth or so.When I switched from resorcinol to polyurethane glue, my blanks suddenlywent from being .005-.008 oversize to being within about .001 of designdimensions when I sand the glue off. -- Robert from lblan@provide.net Tue Nov 13 21:14:34 2001 fAE3EYH20717 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:14:34 - Subject: RE: Butchers Wax--Question Actually, some automotive waxes do contain UV inhibitors.Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:32 PM Subject: Re: Butchers Wax--Question Most spar varnishes have a UV inhibitor, but I don't think waxes do. -- Robert----- Original Message -----From: Art Port Subject: Re: Butchers Wax--Question Now you've made me think of something else. Don't some (at least car)waxes have UV inhibitors in them? Not there's a reason to wax, if I'm right!Art inhibitors.Larry Blan KopeSent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:32 Wax--QuestionMost spar varnishes have a UV = don't think waxes do. -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- Art = Sent: Monday, November 12, = PM Wax--Question Now you've made me think of = Don't some (at least car) waxes have UV inhibitors in them? Not = reason to wax, if I'm right!Art from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 13 21:15:39 2001 fAE3FcH20922 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:15:38 -0600 13 Nov 2001 19:15:41 PST Subject: Re: allowence for glue When I switched from resorcinol to polyurethaneglue, my blanks suddenlywent from being .005-.008 oversize to being withinabout .001 of designdimensions when I sand the glue off. good for you! so what? are you saying that the rod with .008" glue line andthe rod with .000" glue line, both having the samefinished outside diameter, are the same rod? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 21:17:28 2001 fAE3HMH21266 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:17:27 -0600 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:17:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Butchers Wax--Question My mistake. The word is "saponifiable." It means that it is a product =that may be converted into a soap by reaction with an alkali. M-D My mistake. The word M-D from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Nov 13 21:26:02 2001 fAE3Q1H22040 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:26:01 - fAE3Pt808639 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:25:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Me neither.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: RexYour link didn't work for me.Ralph Rex Tutor wrote: DonI think your instructions are great . I haven;tstudied them in detail but they look veryprofessional.You can view them athttp://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.docDo you know how easy it is to have a web site ?space at no cost ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com . from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 21:28:23 2001 fAE3SHH22368 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:28:17 -0600 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:28:23 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers mag Are you sure? There are several options on ActiveX, and you may have oneofthe signed controls enabled. Maybe? My computer asks me anytime anActiveXgives a hit, whether I want to allow ActiveX controls to run, or not. M-D MD, Shouldn't matter, but may. Every computer has it's quirks. I have my Active-X control disabled and can still open Powerfibers. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Nov 13 21:39:34 2001 fAE3dXH23067 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:39:33 - fAE3dZ810728 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:39:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Reel Seats TimI have a 20.00 Trim Router from H.F. dedicated to making reel seat inserts.It is set up and stays set up. A wood block for each end of the 3/8 shaftthatthe insert is turned on. A nut on each end of the shaft tightens the insertbetween the blocks. I think this is the way most makers do it. Littleinvestment, to not have the hassle of setting up each time.The whole unit then sits on a shelf till I need to use it. Total cost includingthe Finger nail bit about 40.00.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tim Wilhelm wrote: One the subject of wood inserts for reel seats, it just seems to me thatonecould make a tool to duplicate inserts reel quick and easily. I keep thinking that one could make something that looks very similar to aMedved Beveler. Have a router mounted permanently to a fisture, a fencethat would accomodate the insert and an adjustment screw that wouldallowyou to fine turn the amount of cut you were taking. Strap the insert intosome sort of carrier on the fence, run it til it hits a stop on the fenceand then pull the fence away from the bit. I've made a couple insert with my router but I have to set up each time andit is somewhat of a pain to get it all aligned properly. With the above youcould dedicate the contraption for inserts only. Does anyone have any additional ideas along that line or am I approachingthe problem all wrong? Tim from homes-sold@home.com Tue Nov 13 21:41:22 2001 fAE3fMH23292 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:41:22 - femail33.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:41:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Ralph,Try http://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.docDon--- -- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Look in the Archives RexYour link didn't work for me.Ralph Rex Tutor wrote: DonI think your instructions are great . I haven;t studied them in detail but they look very professional.You can view them at http://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.docDo you know how easy it is to have a web site ?space at no cost ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com . from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Tue Nov 13 21:42:10 2001 fAE3g9H23432 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:42:09 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:42:04 - Subject: Re: A question for the "PU" boys I'd glue it on with epoxy, then fill any voids by mixing cork dust withelmers & cramming it into the gaps. The other option would be to tape the blank to ensure a good fit, theninstall a winding check to hide the tape. At 03:43 PM 11/13/2001 -0500, Art Port wrote: Hi! and ordered a prebuilt Struble grip for it. When I got thething I found its bore to be just a hair big for the blank at the frontend. I'm pretty sure that I can slather enough epoxy on it to fill the gap, but I was wondering if the polyurethane glue would do a better job,what with its foaming action (sounds like Ajax, no?, floats the dirt,right down the drain, ba-ba-ba-ba- boom!). Any opinions (HAH!)? Or any third alternatives? I'm afraid that when I slide the grip down the blankit'll drag the epoxy with it and starve the front where I need the filler.Will the PU continue to foam even after the grip[ is in place and will thefoam provide support, or just powder up in time? TIA, Art from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 22:04:12 2001 fAE446H24793 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:04:07 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:04:05 - Subject: Re: A question for the "PU" boys Art, Use U-40 Rodbond. You can really pack that stuff in there. Use 1/4" maskingtape on the front end of the blank, under the insert, to insure a tight fit.The Rodbond will fill the entire area inside the insert. M-D At 03:43 PM 11/13/2001 -0500, Art Port wrote: Hi! and ordered a prebuilt Struble grip for it. When I got thething I found its bore to be just a hair big for the blank at the frontend. I'm pretty sure that I can slather enough epoxy on it to fill thegap, but . . . from briansr@point-net.com Tue Nov 13 22:46:04 2001 fAE4k3H26569 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:46:04 - Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:04:14 -0500 "bamboo" Subject: Re: power fibers mag JimI've got the same problem with the July issue.All others of this =EXCELLENT Magazine download OKBTW Bob the latest is absolutely THE BEST to date !!Downloaded it 2 =weeks back and read it right away "Cover to cover"Cheers Brian Sent: November 13, 2001 9:00 PMSubject: power fibers mag hello out there, Iam trying to download or just read the magazine. I cannot down load =any previous issues. So I've tried to read an article in the July 2001 =issue and it hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having the same =problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont JimI've got the same problem with the July issue.All = BTW Bob the latest is absolutely THE BEST to = read it right away "Cover to cover"Cheers Brian christman Sent: November 13, 2001 9:00 =PMSubject: power fibers mag hello out there, Iam trying to download or just read = I cannot down load any previous issues. So I've tried to read an = the July 2001 issue and it hangs up my computer. Is anyone else having = same problems? Thanks,Jim/Vermont from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Nov 13 22:54:21 2001 fAE4sFH27125 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:54:15 - for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:54:11 - Subject: Re: power fibers mag I suspect it is related to Adobe Acrobat. I have 5.0 ( the full version, not just the reader) on my PC. Adobe comes up, initializes a bunch of stuff, and then shuts down. Regards, Steve Dunn. from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Nov 13 23:02:33 2001 fAE52WH27691 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:02:32 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Mortises for reel seat spacers Hi all, Another question I have been thinking about is the mortise on the reel seatspacers. A couple of guys have brought it up. I seem to remember a threada year or so ago (can't seem to locate it in the archives) that described ajig that was designed to do them on a router table. Anyway, Tony's description helps, but I am wondering how to pull the spaceraway from the blade (assuming the spacer is set up against a fence of somesort) so that the mortise is tapered (sloped) up to the outside diameter ofthe spacer, so that the rest of the hardware fits flush to the spacer. Doesthat make sense? I can't seem to see it working too well by moving thespacer. Too hard to move it without canting the wood and gouging themortise. Am I over complicating it? How do you "pros" do it (with arouter, that is). Jason from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 13 23:32:20 2001 fAE5WJH28958 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:32:19 - Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Hang on a sec, you mean there are archives??Just kidding. At 09:26 PM 11/13/01 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote: Me neither.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: RexYour link didn't work for me.Ralph Rex Tutor wrote: DonI think your instructions are great . I haven;tstudied them in detail but they look veryprofessional.You can view them athttp://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.docDo you know how easy it is to have a web site ?space at no cost ?thanks, Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com . /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 13 23:41:38 2001 fAE5fbH29380 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:41:37 -0600 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:41:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Yeah, but don't bother looking. It's all a bunch of rehash of the same oldthings that've been said a thousand times before by the same people, withnothing new ever coming about -- or so I'm told. M-D Hang on a sec, you mean there are archives??Just kidding. from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Nov 13 23:57:15 2001 fAE5vEH29879 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:57:14 - Subject: Re: power fibers mag Thanks for the help, but the real problem may be a lack of patients. The last time I tried to download one of the "problem" issues of pwerfibers, I watched Adobe initialize, then the status at the bottom of the window said "done" and the window was empty. I went to the list, sent my previous email, and caught up on my unread mail. the previously empty window. The "done" message and slow response threw me off. Maybe the others thatare having problems should go have a cup of coffee while the magazinedownloads? Regards, Steve. Thanks for the help, but the real problemmay be a lack of patients. The last time I tried to download one of the "problem" issues of pwerfibers, Iwatched Adobe initialize, then the status at the bottom of the window said I went to the list, sent my previous email, and caught up on my unread question had filled the previously empty window. others that are having problems should go have a cup of coffee while themagazine downloads? Regards, Steve. from martinrjensen@home.com Wed Nov 14 00:02:03 2001 fAE61rH00399 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:01:58 - femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:01:51 -0800 Subject: RE: power fibers mag If you are trying to "open from the current location" that may be theproblem. Download the whole file to your hard drive then open it up. Itwill take a while to download, but when it does , you will be able toopen it up and read through it. PS if it is 2 MG is size, it could takequite a while to download..Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: power fibers mag Thanks for the help, but the real problem may be a lack of patients. The last time I tried to download one of the "problem" issues ofpwerfibers, I watched Adobe initialize, then the status at the bottom ofthe window said "done" and the window was empty. I went to the list, sent my previous email, and caught up on my unreadmail. By the time I closed my mail, the issue of PowerFibers inquestion had filled the previously empty window. The "done" message and slow response threw me off. Maybe the othersthat are having problems should go have a cup of coffee while themagazine downloads? Regards, Steve. CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} If you are trying to “open = from thecurrent location” that may be the problem. Download the whole file =toyour hard drive then open it up. It will take a while to download, but =when it does , you will be able to open it up and read =through it.PS if it is 2 MG is size, it could take quite a while to =download…. Martin =Jensen = -----Original =Message-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Tuesday, November=13, 20019:57 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: power fibers=mag Thanks for the help, but the real problem may be a lack ofpatients. The last time I tried to download one of the "problem" issues =ofpwerfibers, I watched Adobe initialize, then the status at the bottom of =the I went to the list, sent my previous email, and caught up on my unread questionhad filled the previously empty window. Maybe =theothers that are having problems should go have a cup of coffee while themagazine downloads? Regards, Steve. from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 14 00:11:43 2001 fAE6BgH01081 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:11:42 -0600 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 01:11:47 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers mag This would be consistent with my experience. Nothing shows but my little =I/O meter shows that a data stream exists, so I just let it be until =it's done. M-D The last time I tried to download one of the "problem" issues of =pwerfibers, I watched Adobe initialize, then the status at the bottom of = I went to the list, sent my previous email, and caught up on my unread =mail. By the time I closed my mail, the issue of PowerFibers in =question had filled the previously empty window. The "done" message and slow response threw me off. Maybe the others =that are having problems should go have a cup of coffee while the =magazine downloads? This would beconsistent = experience. Nothing shows but my little I/O meter shows that a data = exists, so I just let it be until it's done. M-D SBDunn@aol.com Thanks for the help, but the = problem may be a lack of patients. The last time I tried to = one of the "problem" issues of pwerfibers, I watched Adobe initialize, = PowerFibers in question had filled the previously empty = downloads?Regards, Steve. from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Wed Nov 14 00:19:38 2001 fAE6JWH01461 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:19:33 - Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:19:36 +1100 Subject: Re: power fibers mag FILETIME=[55527B60:01C16CD4] I can download and print all the earlier issues (Apple Mac and Netscape4.7); but with the latest issue it downloads in a trice ( I have abroadband service) but when I want to print I am out of memory. Did nothappen with earlier editions, but they took much longer to download. Wasthere a change in technology for the latest issue? Sean Martin Jensen wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit from rodwrapp@swbell.net Wed Nov 14 00:27:47 2001 fAE6RlH01958 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:27:47 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: power fibers mag I have no problem downloading the issues.. If your out of memory go to tools,then internet options, click on settings then view files and then highlightthem and then delete.. This will empty your cache.. I have dsl so there is nowait time for me to download.. Also you may need to upgrade your adobe... Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: power fibers mag Thanks for the help, but the real problem may be a lack of patients. The last time I tried to download one of the "problem" issues of pwerfibers,I watched Adobe initialize, then the status at the bottom of the window said"done" and the window was empty. I went to the list, sent my previous email, and caught up on my unread mail. the previously empty window. The "done" message and slow response threw me off. Maybe the othersthat are having problems should go have a cup of coffee while the magazinedownloads? Regards, Steve. I have no problem downloading the issues.. Ifyour out of memory go to tools ,then internet options, click on settings then view files and then highlight them and then delete.. This will empty your you ----- Original Message ----- From: SBDunn@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 200111:57 PMSubject: Re: power fibers magThanks for the help, but thereal problem may be a lack of patients. The lasttime I tried to download one of the "problem" issues of pwerfibers, I watched Adobe initialize, then the status at the bottom of the window said "done" and the window was caught up PowerFibers in question had filled the previously emptywindow.The that are having problems should go have a cup of coffee while the magazine downloads?Regards, Steve. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 14 00:34:34 2001 fAE6YSH02598 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:34:28 - Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers If you put a stop at the end of the run along the fence the router bit will only rout a section of the wood making a slope.A couple of things to keep in mind. The blocks need to be exactly square to one another and the hole needs to run straight otherwise you'll see a slope in the mortise both across the wood and in depth. I've found a pin (v small nail used to hold 1.5mm MDF to a frame while gluing it) with the head cut off set into one block which is pressed into the blank will prevent it spinning not that it should but I do it anyhow.Mark the blocks with an UP side so you always know which way to set them.Keep spanners etc far away from the router table, experience speaks here.Just watch your fingers the first time you do this. It's safe enough once you do it and see what happens but the first time can be an emotional experience. Tony At 10:02 PM 11/13/01 -0700, Jason Swan wrote: Hi all, Another question I have been thinking about is the mortise on the reel seatspacers. A couple of guys have brought it up. I seem to remember athreada year or so ago (can't seem to locate it in the archives) that described ajig that was designed to do them on a router table. Anyway, Tony's description helps, but I am wondering how to pull the spaceraway from the blade (assuming the spacer is set up against a fence ofsomesort) so that the mortise is tapered (sloped) up to the outside diameter ofthe spacer, so that the rest of the hardware fits flush to the spacer. Doesthat make sense? I can't seem to see it working too well by moving thespacer. Too hard to move it without canting the wood and gouging themortise. Am I over complicating it? How do you "pros" do it (with arouter, that is). Jason /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Wed Nov 14 01:55:23 2001 fAE7tMH04966 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 01:55:22 - Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:55:25 +1100 Subject: Re: power fibers mag FILETIME=[B87C4D80:01C16CE1] Dave: I am beginning to think it is my Adobe; I've no problem with thecache, that I empty when in difficulty. But, why the difference for thelatest vs earlier Power Fibres? Thanks. Sean Davesrods wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7BIT from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Nov 14 01:59:42 2001 fAE7xfH05201 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 01:59:41 - Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:59:43 -0800 Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:59:43 GMT Subject: Shipping Damage FILETIME=[51F00E20:01C16CE2] I have been able to come up with a ranking system over the years, it changes from time to time but here it is, the results from shipping 2-4 rods a week from best to worstta-ta dah!1 USPS - Couldn't believe it myself at first2 FEDEX AIRSERVICE either 1 or 2 day was the same.3 UPS4 FEDEX GROUND there wasn't any length they wouldn't go to to damage a rod Notes: #1 USPS has only misplaced one rod for a week that arrived intact- it just made a little detour to Alaska before it arrived in Wyoming , out of 200 pkgs. Often runs 7 days right now for coast to coast delivery. #2 Reliable but the rates keep going higher and higher. #3 Do they have to run the truck over the rods first? Or do they just chuck them out of the plane when they fly over? As noted before I have had rods delivered with NO SIGNATURE all over the place, The worst was delivered to a vacant farm house a mile a way from the intended destination in rural NH. The buyer was HOT! He then ran all over till he found the rod a week later, fortunately intact. #4 The worst! There is almost nothing too vile I can say about this operation, I would sooner label the package as Jack Daniels and hire a couple of transients to deliver it by hopping a freight. Why this is so much worse than the air operation I don't have a clue. Just good management maybe. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 14 02:47:24 2001 fAE8lIH06090 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 02:47:18 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:47:21 - Subject: It can't be done that way I like taking absolute truisms and trying them out - or debunking them if you want to call it that. A couple of years ago I tested the "can't plane the power fibers" truism and found that planing all the way up to .010 from the enamel side made no discernable difference to the strength, flex characteristics or anything except the appearance - which improved because a lot of the blemishes and watermarks don't go that deep. It's also a way to straighten out nodes without having to heat and press them. Nodes near the ferrule - what's wrong with that? Nodes are stiffer and for all I've seen stronger than the rest of the bamboo. In fact if you put a node right where the ferrule ends you won't get a "casting fracture" in the wrap - because the node doesn't flex as much and doesn't flex the wrap as much. There is a longer stiff section with the node and the ferrule, so you have to decide if it's worth it. You already know I use bench planes to rough plane, and without a roughing form. Use your final planing forms, they do just fine. What was that 57 degree starting angle thing of Garrisons? Flamed blonde rods? Isn't that an oxymoron? Not if you only flame the inside of a halfed culm. No oven needed. Keep your bamboo dry - a lot of the rodmakers on this list soak the bamboo before planing either on a Morgan handmill or conventionally. Glues - what a lot of differing opinions there. I've even tried Elmer's white glue, and that rod hasn't failed yet. Dipping a rod - Instead of drawing the rod out, drain the varnish. End result is the same. Other things that go against convention - two strip quads? Twisted spiraled rods? Darryl Hayashida I like taking absolute truisms and trying A couple of years ago I tested the "can't plane the power fibers" truism andfound that planing all the way up to .010 from the enamel side made nodiscernable difference to the strength, flex characteristics or anythingexcept the appearance - which improved because a lot of the blemishes andwatermarks don't go that deep. It's also a way to straighten out nodeswithout having to heat and press them. Nodes near the ferrule - what's wrong with that? Nodes are stiffer and forall I've seen stronger than the rest of the bamboo. In fact if you put a noderight where the ferrule ends you won't get a "casting fracture" in the wrap - because the node doesn't flex as much and doesn't flex the wrap as much.There is a longer stiff section with the node and the ferrule, so you have todecide if it's worth it. You already know I use bench planes to rough plane, and without a roughingform. Use your final planing forms, they do just fine. What was that 57degree starting angle thing of Garrisons? Flamed blonde rods? Isn't that an oxymoron? Not if you only flame the insideof a halfed culm. No oven needed. Keep your bamboo dry - a lot of the rodmakers on this list soak the bamboobefore planing either on a Morgan handmill or conventionally. Glues - what a lot of differing opinions there. I've even tried Elmer's whiteglue, and that rod hasn't failed yet. Dipping a rod - Instead of drawing the rod out, drain the varnish. End result isthe same. spiraled rods? Darryl Hayashida from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 14 03:46:29 2001 fAE9kSH06862 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:46:28 - fAE9k8B78650; Subject: Re: A question for the "PU" boys Art I love PU glue, though I still use Epon from time to time. The results areuniformly very good - so far. However, in response to your question aboutfoaming, let me tell you a thing. In about one thousand million years (give or take a billion), our sun willexplode its core and will become a red giant, expanding the solaratmosphere to include within its diameter the whole known solar system,which will perish. At that time, your PU glue will STILL be foaming! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 14 03:50:40 2001 fAE9odH07126 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:50:39 - fAE9oeB79254; Subject: Re: Look in the Archives Not so much of the bloody "old" if you don't mind! [:-)] Peter from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Nov 14 04:07:44 2001 fAEA7dH07606 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:07:39 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:03:52 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: It can't be done that way --------------0672E187C96AE943AEF19017 "THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX",way to go Darryl!,Shawn DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I like taking absolute truisms and trying them out - or debunking them ifyou wantto call it that. A couple of years ago I tested the "can't plane the power fibers" truismand foundthat planing all the way up to .010 from the enamel side made nodiscernabledifference to t.......... --------------0672E187C96AE943AEF19017 "THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX", way to go Darryl!, ShawnDNHayashida@aol.com wrote:I like taking to call it that.A couple of years ago I testedthe"can't plane the power fibers" truism and found that planing all the wayup to .010 from the enamel side made no discernable difference tot.......... --------------0672E187C96AE943AEF19017-- from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Wed Nov 14 04:14:50 2001 fAEAEnH07974 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:14:49 - Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:14:52 +1100 Subject: Re: It can't be done that way FILETIME=[3373D0E0:01C16CF5] Darryl: Great post. The only cane rods that ever broke on me were near the ferrule, andwhere there was a node. Two. A Leonard 38 that was post fire, and a 1928EW Edwards flamed rod. In one case the bottom of the mid and the otherthe bottom of the tip. So I do think about that. About keeping your bamboo dry. Does that mean you think there is apotential/actual loss of strength in soaking cane. I heard that theWinston strips are at least damp, and I work my 8 foot Glen Braket ashard as I like. Sean DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 14 04:15:41 2001 fAEAFZH08077 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:15:35 - fAEAFW183858; Subject: Re: gorilla glue The first PU glue I ever used was sent to me by Robert Kope, as it was notavailable in this country except in industrial quantities; but more recentlyI have been able to buy 500ml tubes of a German PU which goes only under analphanumerical identification. It differs from the Probond product in havinga much shorter working time, and it was a nuisance at the time of bindingand straightening the glued blank, in that I found the gloves sticking tothe job, and the job sticking to everything else. Also, it was foaming like a pod of whales with rabies. So what I do now is keep a bowl (I use an old stainless steel yuppy kitchenbowl - JoJo will no doubt be pleased to note that this one does not have apicture of a rabbit on the bottom) about half filled with alcohol. You coulduse methylated spirit, but I have a good supply of pure ethyl alcohol whichis not so offensive in either smell, taste, or connotation, and I keep it onthe end of the bench. As soon as I find things starting to gum up, I dip mygloved hands into the alcohol, and then back to the job. I repeat thisdipping stage as often as I need to until the job is done. The end result is that (a) the sticking problem is eliminated (b) there ispractically no foamy residue left on the blank and on the string by the timeit's ready to hang up, and (c) the glass slab I use as a removable benchtop dead easy to clean up. I just clean it with a wet (alcohol) rag, and afterit's dry I remove any remaining residue by scraping the slab with an old butstill sharp plane iron. Peter from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 14 05:49:56 2001 fAEBnpH09397 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 05:49:51 - ;Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:49:48 +0000 Subject: varnish ferrule fractures Nodes near the ferrule - what's wrong with that? Nodes are stiffer and put a node right where the ferrule ends you won't get a "castingfracture" in the wrap - because the node doesn't flex as much anddoesn't flex the wrap as much. There is a longer stiff section withthe node and the ferrule........... Darryl, This sounds interesting. Have you tried this, if so how are thecharacteristics of the rod changed. Defeating fractures at the female ferrule are a prime concern of mine. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from irish-george@chartermi.net Wed Nov 14 05:59:27 2001 fAEBxRH09743 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 05:59:27 - 2001 06:59:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Shipping Damage Sounds like your ranking reflects my experience (except I've never usedFedEx ground...sounds like there is no reason to either). ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Shipping Damage I have been able to come up with a ranking system over the years, it changes from time to time but here it is, the results from shipping 2-4 rods a week from best to worstta-ta dah!1 USPS - Couldn't believe it myself at first2 FEDEX AIRSERVICE either 1 or 2 day was the same.3 UPS4 FEDEX GROUND there wasn't any length they wouldn't go to to damage arod Notes: #1 USPS has only misplaced one rod for a week that arrived intact- it just made a little detour to Alaska before it arrived in Wyoming , out of200 pkgs. Often runs 7 days right now for coast to coast delivery. #2 Reliable but the rates keep going higher and higher. #3 Do they have to run the truck over the rods first? Or do they just chuck them out of the plane when they fly over? As noted before I have had rodsdelivered with NO SIGNATURE all over the place, The worst was delivered to a vacant farm house a mile a way from the intended destination in rural NH.The buyer was HOT! He then ran all over till he found the rod a week later, fortunately intact. #4 The worst! There is almost nothing too vile I can say about thisoperation, I would sooner label the package as Jack Daniels and hire acouple of transients to deliver it by hopping a freight. Why this is so much worse than the air operation I don't have a clue. Just good managementmaybe. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 14 06:04:59 2001 fAEC4wH10046 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:04:58 - Subject: RE: power fibers mag THe latest issue was done with PageMaker 7 and Acrobat 5.0 and thepreviousones were done with Pagemaker 5. The new issue is actually much smaller.While it is optimized for screen, it should not pose any printing problems.I wish I knew, I am not sure if the distiller changed, I believe the Octoberissue is able to be opened by 4.0 and newer versions of Reader. I wouldupdate that and see if it works.Thanks,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: power fibers mag Dave: I am beginning to think it is my Adobe; I've no problem with thecache, that I empty when in difficulty. But, why the difference for thelatest vs earlier Power Fibres? Thanks. Sean Davesrods wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7BIT from rodmaker@becclesworkshop.freeserve.co.uk Wed Nov 14 06:08:032001 fAEC82H10325 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:08:03 - helo=default) id 163yps-0005X4-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:08:08 +0000 Subject: Re: A question for the "PU" boys Hi Art, You can cut some slivers of waste bamboo (the bamboo ties used to =bind bales is perfect) to 'pack' the hole. The advantage I found with =this method is that it will hold up well over the years - you will find =that glue alone will eventually degrade as this part of the handle =receives a lot of pressure from casting. The packing will keep the =handle firm for donkeys years. If you don't have a winding check (and =spend some time shaping your slivers!) then you could hide the hole by =creating an attractive 'swell' with your wraps up to the cork.-----Original Message-----From: Art Port Subject: A question for the "PU" boys Hi!I just started a G*****te rod for my TU chapter's raffle and =ordered a prebuilt Struble grip for it. When I got the thing I found its =bore to be just a hair big for the blank at the front end. I'm pretty =sure that I can slather enough epoxy on it to fill the gap, but I was =wondering if the polyurethane glue would do a better job, what with its =foaming action (sounds like Ajax, no?, floats the dirt, right down the =drain, ba-ba-ba-ba-boom!).Any opinions (HAH!)? Or any third alternatives? I'm afraid that =when I slide the grip down the blank it'll drag the epoxy with it and =starve the front where I need the filler. Will the PU continue to foam =even after the grip[ is in place and will the foam provide support, or =just powder up in time?TIA,Art Hi Art, bamboo (the bamboo ties used to bind bales is perfect) to 'pack' the = The advantage I found with this method is that it will hold up well over = years - you will find that glue alone will eventually degrade as this = spend some time shaping your slivers!) then you could hide the hole by = an attractive 'swell' with your wraps up to the cork. -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= 13 November 2001 20:46Subject: A question for "PU" boysHi! it. When I got the thing I found its bore to be just a hair big for = blank at the front end. I'm pretty sure that I can slather enough = it to fill the gap, but I was wondering if the polyurethane glue = better job, what with its foaming action (sounds like Ajax, no?, = dirt, right down the drain, ba-ba-ba-ba-boom!). third alternatives? I'm afraid that when I slide the grip down the = it'll drag the epoxy with it and starve the front where I need the = Will the PU continue to foam even after the grip[ is in place and = foam provide support, or just powder up in time?TIA,Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 14 06:15:47 2001 fAECFkH10749 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:15:46 - Subject: Re: power fibers mag rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mine downloads OK but it would not open. I got an error message that said file could not be found at that location.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) Mine downloads OK but it found at that location.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 14 06:31:37 2001 fAECVaH11220 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:31:36 - Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu OK here is one for you guys on reelseat spacers. How do you guys shapecork when you make a reelseat spacer out of cork? I know I see some really good looking cork spacers and then I see some crappy ones.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) I know I see some really good looking cork spacers and then I see somecrappy ones.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from earsdws@duke.edu Wed Nov 14 06:35:41 2001 fAECZeH11440 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:35:40 - HAA14718; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: power fibers mag --------------96ED539D5AB05AF16446B969 There seem to be some oddities in downloading PDFs. For me they seemworse with Acrobat 5.0. Many times the PDFs won't open, which happened file - it's there, just not opened. When you do this, it asks you whereyou want to save it and should, if it "works" like on my machines, itwill list "Powerfiber5" on the to be saved line. Save it, then open itoff-line. Again, if it "works" like my machine, it'll open just fine.Can't explain it, happens for many downloaded PDFs, nothing specific tothe utterly superb Powerfibers. Good luck, dws. Grhghlndr@AOL.COM wrote: Mine downloads OK but it would not open. I got an error message thatsaid file could not be found at that location.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) --------------96ED539D5AB05AF16446B969 seem happened you where you want to save it and should, if it "works" like on my machines, Grhghlndr@AOL.COM wrote:Minedownloads not be found at that location.Bret(www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) --------------96ED539D5AB05AF16446B969-- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Nov 14 07:03:33 2001 fAED3XH12060 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:03:33 - id ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:57:10 -0500 id V8NVMMV7; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:57:00 -0500 Subject: Re: power fibers mag OK, trying not to step on any toes here, but...When I'm surfing andclick on a link with a .pdf extension, I just about go nuts when Acrobatstarts up in my browser. I think it's because it doesn't react the sameway as the browser to standard mouse clicks and commands. Anyway, whenI know I'm going to want to keep a copy of the .pdf file (as I do withPowerFibers), I always (this is in Netscape, by the way) right-click onthe link, and choose "Save link as" so that the file is saved to my harddrive. Then, after it is fully downloaded, I just open Acrobat and openthe file. That way, I know the file is complete, with no surprises. Just a thought. Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Mine downloads OK but it would not open. I got an error message thatsaid file could not be found at that location.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 14 07:31:10 2001 Received: from fAEDV9H12903 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 From: "Jojo DeLancier" References: Subject: Re: power fibers mag 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Sean, I suspect that it isyour printer that is out of memory. M-D From: "Sean McSharry" Dave: I am beginning to think it is my Adobe; I've no problem with thecache, that I empty when in difficulty. But, why the difference for thelatest vs earlier Power Fibres? Thanks. Sean from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 14 07:34:31 2001 fAEDYUH13144 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:34:30 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:34:33 - Subject: Re: Shipping Damage A.J., Have you had problems getting USPS, or anyone else for that matter, to payoff on the claims? M-D I have been able to come up with a ranking system over the years, it changes from time to time but here it is, the results from shipping 2-4 rods a week from best to worstta-ta dah!1 USPS - Couldn't believe it myself at first2 FEDEX AIRSERVICE either 1 or 2 day was the same.3 UPS4 FEDEX GROUND there wasn't any length they wouldn't go to to damage arod SNIP A.J. from jerryy@webtv.net Wed Nov 14 07:46:55 2001 fAEDkoH13647 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:46:50 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA26161; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 05:46:44 - ETAtAhQYXf+4ZuOw9Mv/vGq67XLI/btJxgIVALmoTUR9hRSJ4LpgANhm6yDoX/3g Subject: Re: Shipping Damage 07:31:22 -0600 One of the things that prompted this was the result of shipping emptytubes so that people could return a rod to me. My local delivery manhad the best insight. Thought that by the time the empty tubes wentunder Xray at the central post office they might have looked suspicious.Makes sense. Jerry Young from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Wed Nov 14 07:55:14 2001 fAEDtEH14032 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:55:14 - Subject: power fibers mag. Everyone , Thank you for the input. I am going to start the day off with a bunch of =new ideas ,thanks to everyones input. At the end of the day i'll let you =know how I've made out. First off , I don't know much about computers...............I did have =this working fine until I had to restore my computer. That dumped =everything I had saved. I reinstalled adobe but ,as you can probably =tell ,things aren't wright. So in lite of all this ,I am going to reinstall adobe and start from =there. Thank you everyone,Jim Everyone , Thank you for the input. I am going to = day off with a bunch of new ideas ,thanks to everyones input. At the end = day i'll let you know how I've made out. computers...............I did have this working fine until I had to = computer. That dumped everything I had saved. I reinstalled adobe but = can probably tell ,things aren't wright. So in lite of all this ,I am going to = adobe and start from there. Thank you everyone,Jim from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 14 07:59:04 2001 fAEDx4H14313 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:59:04 - fAEDxA819186 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 07:59:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers Jason,I have done two ways. One block was recessed to accept the reel seat fillertothe depth that I wanted the stop to be. The end of the filler was inserted inthis recess and the cutter stopped when it just touched the block.I have done away with that. The filler is just made longer that it needs to be.Start the mortise and run almost to the end of the filler Leaving a little morethan the finished insert would have.Just eyeball it.Remove the filler from the holding fixture and cut it to length leavening theamount you want on each end. I find it real simple doing it this way. Theremaybe better ways of doing it but this works real well for me and I don't have ahassle doing it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jason Swan wrote: Hi all, Another question I have been thinking about is the mortise on the reel seatspacers. A couple of guys have brought it up. I seem to remember athreada year or so ago (can't seem to locate it in the archives) that described ajig that was designed to do them on a router table. Anyway, Tony's description helps, but I am wondering how to pull thespaceraway from the blade (assuming the spacer is set up against a fence ofsomesort) so that the mortise is tapered (sloped) up to the outside diameter ofthe spacer, so that the rest of the hardware fits flush to the spacer. Doesthat make sense? I can't seem to see it working too well by moving thespacer. Too hard to move it without canting the wood and gouging themortise. Am I over complicating it? How do you "pros" do it (with arouter, that is). Jason from paul@lifeware.com Wed Nov 14 08:11:07 2001 fAEEB6H14920 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:11:06 - c0mailgw02.prontomail.com (NPlex 5.5.029) (NPlex 5.5.015) Subject: RE: Mortises for reel seat spacers JasonMortising a spacer is done by using a jig which is two blocks of woodroughly 2x2x2 with a hole through the center of the blocks. The blocks setat each end of the spacer and are attached with thread-all and bolts. Thethread-all goes through a block, through the spacer, through the other blockand is bolted at each end. Before you tighten the bolts at each end of thewood blocks, make sure everything is square. I do this by pressing the jigagainst a flat surface while I tighten the bolts. The setup looks kind oflooks like a dumbbell. Position the fence on your router table to where the thumb nail router bitjust touches the spacer with the jig resting against the fence. Adjust theheight of the bit to hit center on the spacer. I make 3 passes to get theright depth on the spacer, moving the fence back after each pass. The slopeon the spacer is made automatically by stopping the jig at the same placeevery time you make a pass. If this doesn't make since, I can post a picture of my set-up. Let me knowif you need pictures. Paul Yorkwww.paulyork.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Mortises for reel seat spacers Hi all, Another question I have been thinking about is the mortise on the reel seatspacers. A couple of guys have brought it up. I seem to remember a threada year or so ago (can't seem to locate it in the archives) that described ajig that was designed to do them on a router table. Anyway, Tony's description helps, but I am wondering how to pull the spaceraway from the blade (assuming the spacer is set up against a fence of somesort) so that the mortise is tapered (sloped) up to the outside diameter ofthe spacer, so that the rest of the hardware fits flush to the spacer. Doesthat make sense? I can't seem to see it working too well by moving thespacer. Too hard to move it without canting the wood and gouging themortise. Am I over complicating it? How do you "pros" do it (with arouter, that is). Jason from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Nov 14 08:13:30 2001 fAEEDUH15152 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:13:30 - Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:10:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers There is a jig described in Wayne's book for mortising reel seats. Works forme. Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mortises for reel seat spacers Hi all, Another question I have been thinking about is the mortise on the reel seat spacers. A couple of guys have brought it up. I seem to remember a thread a year or so ago (can't seem to locate it in the archives) that described a jig that was designed to do them on a router table. Anyway, Tony's description helps, but I am wondering how to pull the spacer away from the blade (assuming the spacer is set up against a fence ofsomesort) so that the mortise is tapered (sloped) up to the outside diameter of the spacer, so that the rest of the hardware fits flush to the spacer. Does that make sense? I can't seem to see it working too well by moving thespacer. Too hard to move it without canting the wood and gouging themortise. Am I over complicating it? How do you "pros" do it (with arouter, that is). Jason from earsdws@duke.edu Wed Nov 14 08:14:56 2001 fAEEEtH15403 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:14:55 - JAA21018; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: A word on protecting/maintaining PCs --------------EB2365271AC8A7449B557A56 Gang, .02 worth. There is a product (That I have no financial interestin, but keeps me alive) called Powerquest Drive Image (for theinitiated, it is the older GHOST program). It is THE ultimatebackup/protection for your PC. It creates a sector-by-sector identicalcopy of your hard drive (including all hidden files). (this isdifferent from simply copying all files, you can't do that have haveyour operating system work, for example). It also creates recoverydisks so that, if your hard drive blows up, is stolen, gets eaten byviruses, gets scrogged by your kids adding dozens of programs, etc, youcan pop in the CD and recovery disk, it will restore the disk (or newdisk) to the state at which the disk image was created. This is exactly how your PC manufacturer created the "recovery" CD thatcame with your machine. Yes, this means anything and everything added since your lastbackup/image will be lost (it overwrites EVERY sector). The two waysgiven for avoiding this is that you can open the image and downloadspecific files. The other way is the best way and it is to simply"image" (read: Backup) the disk every so often, especially if you'readding programs. I highly, highly recommend it. We collect critical scientific data on adaily basis in our labs on ~10 different machines and it has saved ourlives multiple times. have at it, dws. --------------EB2365271AC8A7449B557A56 in, but keeps me alive) called Powerquest Drive Image (for the initiated, simply copying all files, you can't do that have have your operating system if your hard drive blows up, is stolen, gets eaten by viruses, gets scrogged recovery disk, it will restore the disk (or new disk) to the state atwhich the disk image was created.This is exactly how your PC manufacturer created the "recovery" CDthatcame with your machine.Yes, this means anything and everything added since your lastbackup/image (read: Backup) the disk every so often, especially if you're adding programs. data on a daily basis in our labs on ~10 different machines and it hassaved our lives multiple times.have at it, dws. --------------EB2365271AC8A7449B557A56-- from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 14 08:19:28 2001 fAEEJSH16122 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:19:28 - fAEEJX822631 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:19:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers Tony,I installed some long Knobs on my blocks that keeps my fingers a Loooooogway from the cutter.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Young wrote: If you put a stop at the end of the run along the fence the router bit willonly rout a section of the wood making a slope.A couple of things to keep in mind. The blocks need to be exactly square toone another and the hole needs to run straight otherwise you'll see a slopein the mortise both across the wood and in depth. I've found a pin (v smallnail used to hold 1.5mm MDF to a frame while gluing it) with the head cutoff set into one block which is pressed into the blank will prevent itspinning not that it should but I do it anyhow.Mark the blocks with an UP side so you always know which way to set them.Keep spanners etc far away from the router table, experience speakshere.Just watch your fingers the first time you do this. It's safe enough onceyou do it and see what happens but the first time can be an emotionalexperience. Tony At 10:02 PM 11/13/01 -0700, Jason Swan wrote: Hi all, Another question I have been thinking about is the mortise on the reelseatspacers. A couple of guys have brought it up. I seem to remember athreada year or so ago (can't seem to locate it in the archives) that described ajig that was designed to do them on a router table. Anyway, Tony's description helps, but I am wondering how to pull thespaceraway from the blade (assuming the spacer is set up against a fence ofsomesort) so that the mortise is tapered (sloped) up to the outside diameterofthe spacer, so that the rest of the hardware fits flush to the spacer. Doesthat make sense? I can't seem to see it working too well by moving thespacer. Too hard to move it without canting the wood and gouging themortise. Am I over complicating it? How do you "pros" do it (with arouter, that is). Jason /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 14 08:31:04 2001 fAEEV3H17198 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:31:03 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers I shape them on the lathe just like I would cork handle then mortise =them the same as I would a wood spacer. No problems yet. Later,bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers OK here is one for you guys on reelseat spacers. How do you guys =shape cork when you make a reelseat spacer out of cork? I know I see =some really good looking cork spacers and then I see some crappy ones.Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) I shape them on the lathe just like I would cork = yet. Later,bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, = AMSubject: Re: Mortises for reel = spacersOK here is one for you guys on see some crappy ones.Bret(www.homestead.c=om/bambooovens/home.html) from paul@lifeware.com Wed Nov 14 08:37:32 2001 fAEEbVH17618 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:37:31 - c0mailgw06.prontomail.com (NPlex 5.5.029) (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: RE: Mortises for reel seat spacers Good Idea! It doesn't feel good to run your finger in to a router bit. Iknow by experience. - Paul -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers Tony,I installed some long Knobs on my blocks that keeps my fingers a Loooooogway from the cutter.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 14 09:49:28 2001 fAEFnRH22322 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:49:27 - fAEFnW805350 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:49:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers Anyone interested in a shot will be glad to send it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Paul York wrote: Good Idea! It doesn't feel good to run your finger in to a router bit. Iknow by experience. - Paul -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers Tony,I installed some long Knobs on my blocks that keeps my fingers a Loooooogway from the cutter.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Wed Nov 14 10:07:25 2001 fAEG7OH23409 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:07:24 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:07:18 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:07:30 -0800 Subject: RE: It can't be done that way I don't heat and press the nodes. Maybe they did and it weakens them? Justspeculating.... What I am saying about soaking strips is it greatly reduces the effort toplane, straighten, or press nodes (if that's what you do). I soak my strips,and I really can't see why everybody doesn't do it also. Keeping your canedry was a truism that I tested.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 2:18 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: It can't be done that way Darryl: Great post. The only cane rods that ever broke on me were near the ferrule, andwhere there was a node. Two. A Leonard 38 that was post fire, and a 1928EW Edwards flamed rod. In one case the bottom of the mid and the otherthe bottom of the tip. So I do think about that. About keeping your bamboo dry. Does that mean you think there is apotential/actual loss of strength in soaking cane. I heard that theWinston strips are at least damp, and I work my 8 foot Glen Braket ashard as I like. Sean DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bit This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 14 10:09:20 2001 fAEG9FH23683 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:09:20 - fAEG9L808461 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:09:21 -0600 Subject: Burl I mentioned last week that I had some cherry burlliterally explode while drilling. Not to want towaste anything, I gathered up the pieces and stuckthem back together with some Gorilla glue. Itfoamed and looked a mess. It had to sit a weektill I could get back in the shop after kneesurgery.This morning I hobbled to my shop and startedfooling with the piece of burl. Finished drillingit and turned it to size and mortised it. It looksgreat. Managed to save that piece.I am wondering if applying this type of glue andsqueezing it into the minute cracks would work inlue of stabilizing. I am sure that Stabilizingwould be the best way to go but is this works itwould be less hassle. Will play with it and reportthe results.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from flyfishr@istar.ca Wed Nov 14 12:19:16 2001 fAEIJFH00999 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:19:15 -0600 helo=flyfishr) id 1644dR-00010z-00; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:19:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Waxing a rod How about Chinese wax for Chinese cane? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Waxing a rod Her Majesty can put that stuff where the sun don't shine, American madewax on American made rods!!!!!!!!!John Jojo DeLancier wrote: Yes, well I use Renaissance Wax (also by appointment to Her Majesty) -- quite superior in every way to those more common pedestrian varieties;butchers and bowling alleys, indeed. :^ ? from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Nov 14 12:33:21 2001 fAEIXKH01984 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:33:20 - id ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:26:55 -0500 id V8NVMM0K; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:26:50 -0500 Subject: Re: foam brushes for rod varnishing John, Here's another tip I'd like to add to my tips site. TIA Cooper wrote: ---------- From: Jerry Snider Subject: foam brushes for rod varnishingDate: 10 March 1998 14:15 John, did I understand you correctly in that you varnish with the foambrush with the guides & wraps ON the blank? Does the varnish not bubble up around the open ends of the guide wraps?You state that the foam brush is a grey/gray color. Most of the foambrushes I have used/seen are almost black. Perhaps there IS adifference in the types of foam brushes on the market after all. I recall only seeing the darkish color, however.Appreciate any info you can provide.Jerry SniderProfessor of Biological Sciences andCurator of the Herbarium (CINC)Department of Biological SciencesP.O. Box 210006University of CincinnatiCincinnati, OH 45221-0006Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761e- mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm Jerry, I've had several enquiries about this off-list, so I'll reply on-list tosort all at once. My foam 'brushes' are dark grey, so you might call them black, in a badlylit room. They have stamped on the wooden handle: Epifanes. Made in theUSA. The wraps - I first fill with two-pack such as Gudebrod regular build. Iused to have trouble with Gudebrod failing to 'set' but thanks to SirDarryl, I now know well enough to roll the little bottles around to mix upthe ingredients, before measuring the two parts out. That man will neverknow such gratitude again. I know two-pack goes against the grain forsomecane lovers, but I can rationalise its use easily enough. The alternativeis to lay on enough coats of your normal varnish to the wraps, sufficientto fill the silk, and provide a super-smooth varnish transition to theblank. This is very much smoother than dipping, then coating the wrapslater. There are NO bubbles, provided the application is done smoothly, andslowly. Trust me Jerry. Try it. You may want to experiment a bit withvarnish/turpentine ratios, and with the temperature. The rod turner is notessential, but it makes a considerable difference to the evenness of thecoat. If no rod turner, then the section needs to be indexed 180 degreesevery minute, for about fifteen minutes _ less if the ambient temperatureis high. The finish may not be better than dipping, but the wraps/blankinterface is prettier, and in any case, not everyone has dipping facilities. For folks applying a renovating coat over old varnish, withoutremoving the guides, this is the best possible way. Half an hour gentlykeying the old surface with 0000 steel wool, then two minutes per section This wouldn't necessarily replace dipping, if I had a dip tube: but itreplaces any sort of hair-type brush I've ever used. Again I say, I'll never use a brush on a rod ever again. John Cooper (England) -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Nov 14 12:36:16 2001 Received: from Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:30:05 -0500 Received: from macatawa.org (TODDT Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id V8NVMM0P; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Message-ID:Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:33:13 - Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Signing Rod References: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hank, May I add this to thetips archive? If so, please send me your web site address so I can set up alink to it. Thanks. FISHWOOL wrote: Steve,I use the code no. of my taper-year- the no. of that year's rod i.e. 1 3rdone finished in '97 the no. would be 754-97-3. There are many ways to dothis,the above is just my way.Regards,Hank. -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Nov 14 12:37:51 2001 Received: from fAEIbjH02536 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 Received: from [208.219.64.15] by web11405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Nov owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN In the same spirit of Darryl'sposting about material that the newbies may not have seen. Maybe we canput up a list of our 5 to 10 top tapers. My list: Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.Payne 101 Dickerson 8013 PHY Driggs River 7'2", 4/5 wt. PHY Perfection- ist__________________________________________________ Do YouYahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Nov 14 12:44:45 2001 Received: fAEIiiH03119 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 HELO mcanultyj-743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) by svm.vetmed.wisc.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:42:48 -0600 Message- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu From: Jonathan McAnultySubject: RE: It can't be done that way In- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Darryl, Using your post toask a general question to those who soak their strips. Do you guys do this them for planing to final dimensions, how do you account for the sizechanges (shrinkage) that occur when you dry them out again? Jon McAnultyAt 08:07 AM 11/14/2001 -0800, Hayashida Darryl wrote: I don't heat and press the nodes. Maybe they did and it weakens them? Justspeculating.... What I am saying about soaking strips is it greatly reduces the effort toplane, straighten, or press nodes (if that's what you do). I soak my strips,and I really can't see why everybody doesn't do it also. Keeping your canedry was a truism that I tested.Darryl Hayashida from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Wed Nov 14 12:54:39 2001 fAEIsdH03885 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:54:39 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:54:23 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:54:45 -0800 Subject: RE: It can't be done that way Actually we just recently went through discussing this. You leave them 10 to20 percent oversized, dry them in a drying cabinet and take a pass or twowith a plane when they are dry.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: RE: It can't be done that way Darryl,Using your post to ask a general question to those who soak their strips. Do you guys do this for planing to final dimensions or just for theinitial rough planing? If you soak them for planing to final dimensions, how doyou account for the size changes (shrinkage) that occur when you dry themout again?Jon McAnulty At 08:07 AM 11/14/2001 -0800, Hayashida Darryl wrote: I don't heat and press the nodes. Maybe they did and it weakens them? Just speculating.... What I am saying about soaking strips is it greatly reduces the effort toplane, straighten, or press nodes (if that's what you do). I soak my strips, and I really can't see why everybody doesn't do it also. Keeping your cane dry was a truism that I tested.Darryl Hayashida This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Nov 14 12:57:25 2001 fAEIvJH04160 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:57:20 - id ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:51:06 -0500 id V8NVMNAL; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:51:02 -0500 Subject: Sorry, my bad All, I'm looking through some old messages I had saved for the tips site andforgot to replace the address on a couple so they went to the list. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. To make this post somewhat worthwhile, I've set up a Free-For-All linkspage where you can input links to web sites. I'd especially like to seerodmakers with sites get out there and add their sites to the list. Ithink it would be a great place to have a list of makers sites thatpeople could get to.-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from paul@lifeware.com Wed Nov 14 13:01:54 2001 Received: from c0mailgw02.prontomail.com (NPlex 5.5.029) id 3BEE4E79000A1517; Wed, 14Nov 2001 10:55:05 -0800 Received: from paulyork (148.63.135.103) byC6SERVICE11.prontomail.com (NPlex 5.5.029) id 3BC83CD2000B444A; Wed, Subject: RE: It can't be done that way Date:Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:02:53 - 0600 Message-ID: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Sender:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Jon, I soak my strips for 24hours prior to planning un-tapered strips. Once the strips are removed fromthe water, they dry VERY quickly so I only take one out at a time. It is notrecommend to plan wet strips to final taper because of shrinkage. Wetstrips cut like butter. Once I have all strip planed to a 60, I bind and thenheat treat. Works Great- Try it. Paul York www.paulyork.com ----- Original rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Jonathan McAnulty Sent: Subject: RE: It can't be done that way Darryl, Using your post to ask ageneral question to those who soak their strips. Do you guys do this forplaning to final dimensions or just for the initial rough planing? If you soakthem for planing to final dimensions, how do you account for the sizechanges (shrinkage) that occur when you dry them out again? Jon McAnultyAt 08:07 AM 11/14/2001 -0800, Hayashida Darryl wrote: I don't heat and press the nodes. Maybe they did and it weakens them? Justspeculating.... What I am saying about soaking strips is it greatly reduces the effort toplane, straighten, or press nodes (if that's what you do). I soak my strips, and I really can't see why everybody doesn't do it also. Keeping your canedry was a truism that I tested.Darryl Hayashida from pohl@earthlink.net Wed Nov 14 13:32:47 2001 fAEJWkH06370 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:32:47 - helo=pohl) id 1645mH-0002EJ-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:32:53 -0800 Subject: using step down ferrules What is a step down ferrule and when should you use one? Is the step 1/64?I'm looking at building adickerson 7012 and I'm not sure if this taper calls for (or should/shouldn'tuse) a step downferrule. The end of the tip (@ 42") is .176 and the beginning of the butt (@42) is .188. If I build thisrod I thought that I would just need a regular 12/64 ferrule. Also, how doesa step down or no step ferruleaffect the action of the rod?- Thanks, Mark from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Nov 14 13:36:52 2001 fAEJapH06745 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:36:51 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:36:57 - Subject: PU again I've been using PU glue for gluing reel seats and cork rings together =but have been using Urac for gluing up strips. I know that a number of =people usit for gluing the strips together. Is there a good reason not =to do that, or is it just personal preference. It seems that it would =be easier than weighing and mixing the other types. John K I've been using PU glue for gluing reel = cork rings together but have been using Urac for gluing up strips. I = would be easier than weighing and mixing the other types. JohnK from pohl@earthlink.net Wed Nov 14 13:42:03 2001 fAEJg2H07269 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:42:02 - helo=pohl) id 1645vB-0006vz-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:42:05 -0800 Subject: planing form quality? What determines the quality of forms? I see some for $300 and others for$850. Are there used ones out there for good price? Thanks, Mark from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 14 14:01:29 2001 fAEK1SH08926 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:01:28 - (authenticated) for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:01:17 -0800 Subject: Kingsport, TN Hi friends, Is there anyone on the list from near Kingsport Tenneseethat would not mind helping out a new rodaker? If so,please drop me a note. Thanks,Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from darrell@vFish.net Wed Nov 14 14:06:43 2001 fAEK6gH09380 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:06:42 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:06:48 -0600 Subject: test test from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Nov 14 14:09:14 2001 fAEK9DH09667 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:09:13 - Subject: Re: planing form quality? I've been using forms from Lon Blauvelt(about $250 I think). I haven't hadany problems. I haven't used the $800 model so I can't speak to that otherthan I get my strips where they need to be and any glue lines that show aremy own doing!!;-) John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: planing form quality? What determines the quality of forms? I see some for $300 and others for$850. Are there used ones out there for good price? Thanks, Mark from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Nov 14 14:32:05 2001 fAEKW4H11281 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:32:04 - 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 2001 14:30:08 -0600 Subject: RE: It can't be done that way Right, its in the archives. Sorry I missed it. I have taken to scanning the messages more than I used to (used to read every post) because of all the nonrodmaking content and must have missed this.Cheers.Jon At 10:54 AM 11/14/2001 -0800, Hayashida Darryl wrote: Actually we just recently went through discussing this. You leave them 10to20 percent oversized, dry them in a drying cabinet and take a pass or twowith a plane when they are dry.Darryl Hayashida from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Nov 14 15:06:03 2001 fAEL62H13452 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:06:02 - Wed, 14 Nov 2001 13:06:09 PST Subject: Swelled butts I've noticed in going through some of the tapers inthe archives that the numbers for the swell are leftof and a note is simply inserted saying that the swellis not included. Is there some kind of acceptedmethod/formula for adding a swell to an existing taperor is it strictly trial and error thing? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Wed Nov 14 16:36:49 2001 fAEMahH17626 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:36:44 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:36:45 +1100 Subject: Re: It can't be done that way FILETIME=[D72C2D60:01C16D5C] Darryl: Thanks for the clarification. I fully agree. Sean Hayashida Darryl wrote: I don't heat and press the nodes. Maybe they did and it weakens them? Justspeculating.... What I am saying about soaking strips is it greatly reduces the effort toplane, straighten, or press nodes (if that's what you do). I soak my strips,and I really can't see why everybody doesn't do it also. Keeping your canedry was a truism that I tested.Darryl Hayashida from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Nov 14 16:51:20 2001 fAEMpGH18403 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:51:17 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:51:19+0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: PU again understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I can't see why You couldn't use it for the strips, I'm using it:-) It ISeasy, straight from the tube, a bit messy, but if You use surgical glovesand have a botle of aceton handy its no sweat. It has plenty of working timeand takes heat very well. My first rod I used white wood glue, it was adisaster, didn't take heat, and delaminated when I straighten it. I've triedepoxy, its messy, has to be mixed and doesn't take heat as well as PU. WhenI heat the rod I used it on to straighten, it gets very soft, PU has a moreresistent feeling to it........... danny Subject: PU again I've been using PU glue for gluing reel seats and cork rings together buthave been using Urac for gluing up strips. I know that a number of peopleusit for gluing the strips together. Is there a good reason not to do that,or is it just personal preference. It seems that it would be easier thanweighing and mixing the other types. John K Re: PU again I can't see why You couldn't use it for the strips, I'm using it:-) It IS e=asy, straight from the tube, a bit messy, but if You use surgical gloves and=have a botle of aceton handy its no sweat. It has plenty of working time an=d takes heat very well. My first rod I used white wood glue, it was a disast=er, didn't take heat, and delaminated when I straighten it. I've tried epoxy=, its messy, has to be mixed and doesn't take heat as well as PU. When I hea=t the rod I used it on to straighten, it gets very soft, PU has a more resis= danny From: "John Kenealy"<mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com= Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:37:05 -0500 Subject: PU again I've been using PUglue for g=luing reel seats and cork rings together but have been using Urac for gluing=up strips. I know that a number of people usit for gluing the strips togeth= =other types. John K from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Nov 14 16:55:25 2001 fAEMtOH18845 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:55:24 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:55:30+0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers PHY MidgePHY Driggs River PHY PerfectionistPHY Para15PHY JJPezon & Michel Ritz Fario ClubHardy TourneyPayne 100HDickerson 6611Dickerson 7613 In the same spirit of Darryl's posting about materialthat the newbies may not have seen. Maybe we can putup a list of our 5 to 10 top tapers. My list:Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.Payne 101Dickerson 8013PHY Driggs River 7'2", 4/5 wt.PHY Perfectionist from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 14 16:57:08 2001 fAEMv7H19050 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:57:08 -0600 14 Nov 2001 14:57:06 PST Subject: garrison style forms all, is there presently anyone building and sellinggarrison style planing forms? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from "Marty D. aka \"none" Wed Nov 14 16:59:02 2001 fAEMx1H19301 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:59:01 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4169. . Clean. Processed in 0.388941 secs); 14 Nov 200122:59:05 -0000 Subject: Re: varnish ferrule fractures I couldn't agree more. That rule of "don't put a node within 6" of theferrule or tip top" is one of those rules that Leonard, Heddon , FE Thomas,Edwards and Granger didn't follow. Marty Steve Trauthwein wrote: Nodes near the ferrule - what's wrong with that? Nodes are stiffer and put a node right where the ferrule ends you won't get a "castingfracture" in the wrap - because the node doesn't flex as much anddoesn't flex the wrap as much. There is a longer stiff section withthe node and the ferrule........... Darryl, This sounds interesting. Have you tried this, if so how are thecharacteristics of the rod changed. Defeating fractures at the female ferrule are a prime concern of mine. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Nov 14 16:59:49 2001 fAEMxmH19452 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:59:48 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers OK, guys. Not to be a hassle, or anything, but these names don't mean muchto me. I really appreciate the recommendations, but could you tell us"newbies" why these are your favorite rods? What are they like? Jason On 11/14/01 3:55 PM, "Danny Twang" wrote: PHY MidgePHY Driggs River PHY PerfectionistPHY Para15PHY JJPezon & Michel Ritz Fario ClubHardy TourneyPayne 100HDickerson 6611Dickerson 7613 In the same spirit of Darryl's posting about materialthat the newbies may not have seen. Maybe we can putup a list of our 5 to 10 top tapers. My list:Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.Payne 101Dickerson 8013PHY Driggs River 7'2", 4/5 wt.PHY Perfectionist from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Nov 14 17:11:16 2001 fAENBDH20392 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:11:14 - for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:11:11+0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: varnish ferrule fractures I don't mind having a node close to the ferrule, but I've had a tip break atthe node when straightening. So I use the 5" rule for tips.... danny danny I couldn't agree more. That rule of "don't put a node within 6" of theferrule or tip top" is one of those rules that Leonard, Heddon , FE Thomas,Edwards and Granger didn't follow. Marty Steve Trauthwein wrote: from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Nov 14 17:12:48 2001 fAENCiH20582 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:12:45 - for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:12:39+0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers Oops, forgot Garrison #193 danny PHY MidgePHY Driggs RiverPHY PerfectionistPHY Para15PHY JJPezon & Michel Ritz Fario ClubHardy TourneyPayne 100HDickerson 6611Dickerson 7613 from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Nov 14 17:20:26 2001 fAENKQH21112 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:20:26 - Subject: Re: PU again Re: PU againThanks Danny, I thought that I'd try it on an "experimental" rod this winter and see =how it reacts. I don't mind the mess since I seem to be able to make a =mess out of even the neatest things!! [;-)] John K Subject: Re: PU again I can't see why You couldn't use it for the strips, I'm using it:-) It =IS easy, straight from the tube, a bit messy, but if You use surgical =gloves and have a botle of aceton handy its no sweat. It has plenty of =working time and takes heat very well. My first rod I used white wood =glue, it was a disaster, didn't take heat, and delaminated when I =straighten it. I've tried epoxy, its messy, has to be mixed and doesn't =take heat as well as PU. When I heat the rod I used it on to straighten, = danny From: "John Kenealy" Subject: PU again I've been using PU glue for gluing reel seats and cork rings =together but have been using Urac for gluing up strips. I know that a =number of people usit for gluing the strips together. Is there a good =reason not to do that, or is it just personal preference. It seems that =it would be easier than weighing and mixing the other types. John K Re: PU again Thanks Danny, I thought that I'd try it on an = be able to make a mess out of even the neatest things!! ;-) John K ----- Original Message ----- Danny = Sent: Wednesday, November 14, = PMSubject: Re: PU againI can't see why You couldn't use it for the strips, I'm = it:-) It IS easy, straight from the tube, a bit messy, but if You use = gloves and have a botle of aceton handy its no sweat. It has plenty of = time and takes heat very well. My first rod I used white wood glue, it = disaster, didn't take heat, and delaminated when I straighten it. I've = epoxy, its messy, has to be mixed and doesn't take heat as well as PU. = heat the rod I used it on to straighten, it gets very soft, PU has a = mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.comDate: Wed, 14 Nov = againI've been using PU glue= reel seats and cork rings together but have been using Urac for = strips. I know that a number of people usit for gluing the strips = K from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed Nov 14 18:52:22 2001 fAF0qMH24406 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:52:22 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:52:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Kingsport, TN Harry: I'm here in Kingsport, and willing to do what I can. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one hand and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Is there anyone on the list from near Kingsport Tenneseethat would not mind helping out a new rodaker? If so,please drop me a note. Thanks,Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed Nov 14 19:28:05 2001 fAF1RxH25903 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:27:59 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:27:45 - Subject: 100 rods Just finished sanding the glue off my 100 th rod tonite and it looks like a keeper . So l guess.... l have at last become journyman rod maker . family and freinds dont get it but l thought here would be some folks that would. Its on towards the next 100Gary Lohkamp thought here would be some folks that would. Its on towards the next 100Gary Lohkamp from harms1@pa.net Wed Nov 14 19:39:22 2001 fAF1dHH26501 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:39:22 - Subject: Re: Swelled butts Bill, I think it's pretty much a trial-and-error kind of thing to transform a"straight" taper into a swelled butt. But, to save you a couple errors,maybe you can use some of my trials. I like a swelled butt that increases the diameter about .100" (.085" in arod shorter than 7 feet ). The swell itself would cover an area ahead ofthe grip of about five inches. So, on the rod's original taper, measurefive (or five- and-a-half) inches forward of where you want your front corkto be, and begin the swell back to the cork. You will need to interpolatebetween stations on those rods whose five-inch dimensions do not fall neatlyinto your finished measurements. The swelled butt will leave you with an enormously oversized grip. So, inorder to reduce as much weight as possible through the handle area, I thenturn the blank under the cork and reel seat down to a 3/8" dowell. You cantaper this down immediately behind the forward-most cork. Now, doing all this will alter the action of the original rod somewhat, butI have always found it to be an "improvement" of sorts--mostly, in terms ofthe rod's maximum capacity. A personal thing, at that point, 'cause I amnot a great distance caster. (I figure that's why I make the next rod-sizeup.) Good luck,Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Swelled butts I've noticed in going through some of the tapers inthe archives that the numbers for the swell are leftof and a note is simply inserted saying that the swellis not included. Is there some kind of acceptedmethod/formula for adding a swell to an existing taperor is it strictly trial and error thing? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 14 19:49:39 2001 fAF1ncH27070 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:49:38 - Subject: RE: Top 10 Favorite Tapers My short list:-Paul Young Driggs River Special- good up close and far and fine. Casts a 4or 5 weight lines with an action that matches my casting stroke so well. Ican feel the right timing like no other rod I have cast. I like the way itcasts off the tip and then loads up the butt with power when I work someline out. Best all around trout rod I have. Worked on the Delaware and ontiny little Clear Creek. Does it all.-Garrison 209- a rod that just makes sense to me. I feel the progressivecasting stroke. Only cast one once, but it was magic. On my list of to do's.-Tom Smithwick Spiral rod. Just great!- Degere "Ice Cream Parlor Hole"- 6'9" 2 wt. Very medium actioned, has powerto spare. Really presents tiny flies so well. My absolute favorite forTricos and most everyday fishing in WNY.-Several unmentionable quadrates. Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers PHY MidgePHY Driggs RiverPHY PerfectionistPHY Para15PHY JJPezon & Michel Ritz Fario ClubHardy TourneyPayne 100HDickerson 6611Dickerson 7613 In the same spirit of Darryl's posting about materialthat the newbies may not have seen. Maybe we can putup a list of our 5 to 10 top tapers. My list:Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.Payne 101Dickerson 8013PHY Driggs River 7'2", 4/5 wt.PHY Perfectionist from pohl@earthlink.net Wed Nov 14 19:54:19 2001 fAF1sJH27454 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:54:19 - id 164BjV-0006QP-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:54:25 -0800 Subject: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I've never had a rod that had a slip ring type reel seat. Are they secure ordoes the reel keep loosening up and you gotta keep messing with it? -Mark from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Nov 14 19:58:42 2001 fAF1waH27865 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:58:36 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 164Bne-00077O-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:58:43 -0500 Subject: PU Glue Lot of references on the List to foamy "PU Glue". What "off the shelf =brand names" do you recommend for us non-glueologists?TIA.Ed Lot of references on the List to foamy= non-glueologists?TIA.Ed from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 14 20:08:23 2001 fAF28NH28529 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:08:23 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) Mark,All but one of my personal rods uses cap and ring reel seats. The onlyreason the one has a screwing uplock is I found an old "new" one in a box inthe shop and was just too lazy that day to turn the hardware and filler, soI used the little treasure I found in the box.A properly dimensioned cap and ring on a properly mortised filler worksgreat. I prefer them over screwing up or downlock. I have not yet lost areel from my rod in the water. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com I've never had a rod that had a slip ring type reel seat. Are they secure or does the reel keep loosening up and you gotta keep messing with it? -Mark from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Nov 14 20:09:48 2001 fAF29lH28720 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:09:47 -0600 Subject: Re: PU Glue I've been using the Probond from elmer's and have been happy with it, so =far, but have not used it for strips, just reelseats and cork.John K Subject: PU Glue Lot of references on the List to foamy "PU Glue". What "off the shelf =brand names" do you recommend for us non-glueologists?TIA.Ed I've been using the Probond from = been happy with it, so far, but have not used it for strips, just = cork.John K ----- Original Message ----- Riddle = Sent: Wednesday, November 14, = PMSubject: PU Glue Lot of references on the List to = non-glueologists?TIA.Ed from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Nov 14 20:29:40 2001 fAF2TdH29689 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:29:39 - for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:29:37 - Subject: Chicago Guys - It looks like I will be stranded Saturday morning in the barren wilderness of (shudder) Chicago. I seem to remember someone saying therewas a rodmaker friendly shop there. If anyone has the info, please let me know off list. Thanks - Tom from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Nov 14 20:35:19 2001 fAF2ZIH00038 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:35:18 - Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers If I remember right, I think I had an article in the planing form, back a while ago on building a mortising fixture for use with a routertable. Look back through them, if you can't find it, let me know. Istill have it in my computer somewhere. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 14 21:08:24 2001 fAF38IH01068 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:08:18 - fAF38O800595 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:08:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I like them,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I've never had a rod that had a slip ring type reel seat. Are they secure ordoes the reel keep loosening up and you gotta keep messing with it? -Mark from can@telusplanet.net Wed Nov 14 21:20:29 2001 fAF3KFH01640 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:20:19 - Subject: Line Wt. Question A few of us were discussing line wt.'s the other night. Now a WF5 andDT5 weigh the same in the first 30' or 140 grains (low 134, high 146tolerance) according to AFTMA Standards. Question is at a 40-45 ft. castwhere does the DT5 fit "relatively"?, between a WF5 and WF6 or between aWF4 and WF5. Not many of the lads use DT's anymore & there were twoschools of thought as to how it cast at that distance, some said it was"heavier" some said "lighter" than a WF5. Anybody seen a table toclarify this?-- Cheers Craig > from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Nov 14 21:26:102001 Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 14 Nov 200121:26:14 -0600 Message-ID:From: "Lamberson, William R." Subject: RE: using step down ferrules Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:26:13 - LambersonW@missouri.edu Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Idoubt that you need a step down on a 7012. Look at the taper for a Gillum 1-685, it has a .028 step. I once measured an original Dickerson 8015 whichhad a similar step, although the ones in Howell's book only show .018. Theycan be difficult without a step down. In my limited experience the step makesthe rod faster. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- From: Mark & Kathy using step down ferrules What is a step down ferrule and when should youuse one? Is the step 1/64? I'm looking at building a dickerson 7012 and I'mnot sure if this taper calls for (or should/shouldn't use) a step down ferrule.The end of the tip (@ 42") is .176 and the beginning of the butt (@ 42) is.188. If I build this rod I thought that I would just need a regular 12/64ferrule. Also, how does a step down or no step ferrule affect the action ofthe rod?- Thanks, Mark > from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Wed Nov 1421:27:28 2001 Received: from hotmail.com (f103.pav2.hotmail.com Thu, 15 Nov 2001 03:27:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.21.199.131] From: Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID:X- OriginalArrivalTime: 15 eamon_lee@hotmail.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENPlease contact me off list. I lost your email address. Thanks for thebandwidth. Eamon_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Wed Nov14 21:28:50 2001 Received: from hotmail.com (f142.pav2.hotmail.com Thu, 15 Nov 2001 03:28:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.21.199.131] From: Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID:X- OriginalArrivalTime: 15 eamon_lee@hotmail.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENPlease contact me off list. I lost your email address. Thanks for thebandwidth. Eamon_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Nov14 21:33:42 2001 Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc- (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:33:49 -0600 Message- "'Rodmakers '" Subject: RE: Line Wt. Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN The next 15 feet of the DT5is heavier than the next 15 feet of the WF5, so the DT5 will be between aWF5 and a WF6. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- From: Craig Naldrett of us were discussing line wt.'s the other night. Now a WF5 and DT5 weighthe same in the first 30' or 140 grains (low 134, high 146 tolerance)according to AFTMA Standards. Question is at a 40-45 ft. cast where doesthe DT5 fit "relatively"?, between a WF5 and WF6 or between a WF4 andWF5. Not many of the lads use DT's anymore & there were two schools ofthought as to how it cast at that distance, some said it was "heavier" somesaid "lighter" than a WF5. Anybody seen a table to clarify this?-- Cheers Craig > from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 14 21:36:09 2001 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X- Importance: Normal 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I like the cork ones quite abit, but have had no problems with wood insert slide band seats I got fromTony Young. I cannot remember the wood Tony used, but my component boxsmells great. Tony? Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Mark & Kathy Pohl Sent: Subject: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I've never had a rod that had a slipring type reel seat. Are they secure or does the reel keep loosening up andyou gotta keep messing with it? -Mark > from bob@downandacross.com Wed Subject: RE: PU Glue Date: Wed, 14 Nov 200122:35:50 -0500 Message-ID: MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Ed Riddle Sent: Wednesday, Lot of references on the List to foamy "PU Glue". What "off the shelf brandnames" do you recommend for us non-glueologists? TIA. Ed ------ experience with the = others, Bob -----Original RiddleSent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:59 = = Glue Lot of glueologists? TIA. Ed ------ bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 14 21:45:42 2001 Received: from fAF3jfH03702 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: Burl for spacers Date: Wed, 14 Nov2001 22:45:42 -0500 Message- ID: Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Importance: Normal 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Eamon: Thanks a million fothe wood. It is absolutely great. Best $$ I have ever spent on wood forinserts, the seats will go well with my blond rods I am planning for next year.Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Eamon Lee Sent: Wednesday, PETER LAWRENCE Please contact me off list. I lost your email address.Thanks for the bandwidth. Eamon_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 14 fAF3qmH04163 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:50:21 -0600 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] ring) References: Content-Type: fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Mark,If you are referring to a dual slip ring seat over wood, then that seat isprobably slightly, very slightly, less reliable than the cap and ring style. Still,if it is well made, it should hold the reel with no problems. Put dual slip ringsover cork, and you will never have a problem. Cap and ring is my standardseat. Harry Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I've never had a rod that had a slip ring type reel seat. Are they secure ordoes the reel keep loosening up and you gotta keep messing with it? -Mark -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from martinrjensen@home.com Wed Nov 14 22:21:02 2001 fAF4L2H04994 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:21:02 - femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:21:03 -0800 Subject: RE: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I have been making slip ring. They are as reliable as the threadedscrew. In fact the only reel seat that "reliably" loosened up was aPowell threaded reel seat. They stated it was the "strongest" one on themarket with square (or acme) threads. Always loosened up. The doublesliding band and a bit cumbersome and I don't make those anymore. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I've never had a rod that had a slip ring type reel seat. Are theysecure ordoes the reel keep loosening up and you gotta keep messing with it?-Mark from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Nov 14 22:33:28 2001 fAF4XNH05519 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:33:23 - Subject: Re: Chicago Dear Tom, No Rodmaker should come to Chicago without stopping by Coren's Rod andReel to see Eric and Bill-it's by far my favorite hang. Was just there today. Best to call to get directions (773)631-5202.Might see you there! Rob Hoffhines from saweiss@flash.net Wed Nov 14 23:42:11 2001 fAF5gBH07348 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:42:11 - fAF5gHM223958 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:42:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers Organization: Prodigy Internet I use the mortising jig described in Wayne C's book.Steve mortise. Am I over complicating it? How do you "pros" do it (with arouter, that is). Jason from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 15 00:25:58 2001 fAF6PvH08353 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:25:57 - helo=g2t8c9) id 164FyO-0000zN-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:26:04 -0800 Subject: Fly fishing fair Any one attending the Bob Marriotts Fly Fishing fair this weekend? Adam from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 15 00:27:26 2001 fAF6ROH08517 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:27:25 - Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers How about:PHY DriggsPayne 98Dickerson 7614WC 7' #4 (Sir D) Tony At 10:37 AM 11/14/01 -0800, Bill Walters wrote: In the same spirit of Darryl's posting about materialthat the newbies may not have seen. Maybe we can putup a list of our 5 to 10 top tapers. My list:Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.Payne 101Dickerson 8013PHY Driggs River 7'2", 4/5 wt.PHY Perfectionist __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 15 00:27:28 2001 fAF6RQH08526 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:27:27 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers At 03:59 PM 11/14/01 -0700, Jason Swan wrote: OK, guys. Not to be a hassle, or anything, but these names don't meanmuchto me. I really appreciate the recommendations, but could you tell us"newbies" why these are your favorite rods? What are they like? Jason Sorry, I should have realised. How about:PHY Driggs SublimePayne 98 SuperbDickerson 7614 MagnificentWC 7' #4 (Sir D) Outstanding Sorry, had to do that :-)) The Driggs is a parabolic so it bends into the handle when casting. Being parabolic it can take some getting used to but it has enough advantages to make it worth while.The advantage most people talk about is the casting power which is true but I like it's action and the way it handles different uses. Because of the nature of paras they are good nymphing rods (up stream like dry nymphing). At the same time though this rod also makes a great dry fly rod. Basically a very good all round rod that doesn't make you feel like it's a compromise. The Payne 98 is just a very nice wand like rod. Excellent to cast. Dickerson 7614 is IMHO the trout rod in deep fast water. Really good thick butt so you can man handle the fish but the tip is fine so you can play them at the same time.I don't think you'll ever feel underguned with this rod for trout anywhere you'd ever fish. The Sir D (original taper by WC) is just a wand to cast. Really nice almost parabolic action. Great little dry fly rod. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 15 00:44:34 2001 fAF6iXH09432 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:44:33 - helo=g2t8c9) id 164GGK-0004YW-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 22:44:36 -0800 Subject: Planning forms There are a lot of good planning forms out there. Personally $850 forforms is to the point I would buy a beveller and make a set of hardwoodforms with aluminum angles and groove my plane. I paid $350+ for my forms from bootstrap and I am more then pleased withthem. Upon checking I did have to fine tune the first 20" of the tipsection. It took me about 20 minutes to do so. Big Deal. But if you do not have a problem spending $850 instead of just spending iton forms maybe this is an option. Forms from Grindstone Anglers in Canada around $300 Canadian$28 for Stanley plane from Lowes. Either heat treat the blade or buy a Hockblade $35Build a binder pulleys and stuff around $303culms shipped to your door for around $100 Demarest or Golden WitchAnd use the rest for all the nick naks. You can actually get started for the price of a set of $850 forms. Adam Vigil from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 15 00:52:36 2001 fAF6qYH09763 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:52:34 - Subject: RE: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) That was some Rose Mahogany or at least that's what it was called in the region I rescued it. Does smell very nice indeed but has very little in the way of figure. I used some as the sides of some draws I made for a cabinet, clothes smell really nice and no problems with wool moths etc. The only problem is apart from several flitches I still have and only then Tony At 10:35 PM 11/14/01 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: I like the cork ones quite a bit, but have had no problems with wood insertslide band seats I got from Tony Young. I cannot remember the wood Tonyused, but my component box smells great. Tony?Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I've never had a rod that had a slip ring type reel seat. Are they secure ordoes the reel keep loosening up and you gotta keep messing with it? -Mark /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Nov 15 02:07:44 2001 fAF87gH11125 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 02:07:42 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:07:44 -0800 Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:07:44 GMT Subject: Re: using step down ferrules FILETIME=[9AE49A40:01C16DAC] The step or leonard ferrule- the female is sized to the rod just as a swiss would be, the male , instead of mating with an oversize barrel on the female is reduced in diameter to fit into a female that is a straight tube, .concerning the interior measurements about 60% of the lengthof the male is reduced in diameter by 2/64 and the remaining 40% or so is the samediameter as the female tube. So... it is easier to fit a rod that has a drop across the ferrule but there is no reason to use them only on that type of rod as the dimensions are the same. The dowside - they take longer to turn a ferrule station. Upside - they look better. The swiss ferrules are looking pretty clunky these days. The argument that the leonard ferrules are not as strong is pure BS. The 1-685 Gillum takes a custom ferrule. A straight tube female and a straight tube male.A.J. From: "Mark & Kathy Pohl" Subject: using step down ferrulesDate: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:27:50 -0500 What is a step down ferrule and when should you use one? Is the step1/64?I'm looking at building adickerson 7012 and I'm not sure if this taper calls for (or should/shouldn'tuse) a step downferrule. The end of the tip (@ 42") is .176 and the beginning of the butt (@42) is .188. If I build thisrod I thought that I would just need a regular 12/64 ferrule. Also, how doesa step down or no step ferruleaffect the action of the rod?- Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Nov 15 02:37:21 2001 fAF8bKH11832 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 02:37:20 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:37:19 -0800 Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:37:19 GMT Subject: Top 10 (or so) FILETIME=[BD05CC30:01C16DB0] Granger 8ftGranger 8 1/2 ftLeonard 8 1/2ft to 9 1/2 ft tounament rods for a 4 or a 5Leonard 50 DFLeonard 39 DFGarrison 206eGarrison 212ePayne 201Para 15Dickerson 6611Any of the PM PPP rodsThe 4 3/4 oz Granger 9fPayne 204Granger 71/2 ftand the Granger 7ftGood but not ?38H LeonardDickerson 7012Payne Canoe A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 15 03:19:38 2001 fAF9JaH12525 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 03:19:36 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: using step down ferrules AJ,what do you mean the Swiss ferrules are looking clunky these days? Do you mean they are evolving into clunky looking things or current tastes are for a more streamlined ferrule? Tony At 08:07 AM 11/15/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: that type of rod as the dimensions are the same. The dowside - they take longer to turn a ferrule station. Upside - they look better. The swiss ferrules are looking pretty clunky these days. The argument that the leonard ferrules are not as strong is pure BS. AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Nov 15 04:10:09 2001 fAFAA8H13152 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 04:10:08 - fAFAA3634676; Subject: Re: PU Glue Ed The glue that Rob Kope sent me from the US originally was Elmer's =Probond, and it was a really great glue to use. These PU's are all real snotmines, though, and it is a good idea to do =what I suggest and keep a dish of 60-70% alcohol close handy to deal =with the foam. I notice that Danny uses acetone. Never tried that as =alcohol is easier for me, but Danny wouldn't recommend it if it didn't =work. Peter Ed The glue that Rob Kope sent me fromthe = use. These PU's are all real snotmines, = tried that as alcohol is easier for me, but Danny wouldn't recommend it = didn't work. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Nov 15 04:17:53 2001 fAFAHpH13487 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 04:17:52 - fAFAHu535937 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:17:56 Subject: Ron Barch Does anyone have an e-mail address for Ron Barch, please, or is thatsomething that he doesn't make public? Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Nov 15 04:21:00 2001 fAFAKxH13719 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 04:20:59 - fAFAL2536414 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:21:03 Subject: List rodmakers from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Nov 15 04:26:15 2001 fAFAQEH14057 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 04:26:15 - for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:13:48+0100 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:13:48+0100 Subject: Re: PU Glue BTW, what are You doing Peter, wasting all that good vet alcohol.Here in Norway it would have been a great sin to not drink it:-) Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:09 AMSubject: Re: PU Glue Ed The glue that Rob Kope sent me from the US originally was Elmer's =Probond, and it was a really great glue to use. These PU's are all real snotmines, though, and it is a good idea to do =what I suggest and keep a dish of 60-70% alcohol close handy to deal =with the foam. I notice that Danny uses acetone. Never tried that as =alcohol is easier for me, but Danny wouldn't recommend it if it didn't =work. Peter I`ve used both denatured alcohol and = BTW, what are You doing Peter, wasting= good vet alcohol.Here in Norway it would have been a = not drink it:-) ----- Original Message ----- Peter McKean Cc: rodmakers Sent: Thursday, November 15, = AMSubject: Re: PU Glue Ed The glue that Rob Kope sent me from = use. These PU's are all real snotmines, = acetone. Never tried that as alcohol is easier for me, but Danny = recommend it if it didn't work. Peter from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Nov 15 04:33:50 2001 fAFAXnH14377 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 04:33:49 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4169. . Clean. Processed in 0.412556 secs); 15 Nov 200110:33:56 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers PHY MidgePHY PerfectionistOrvis 5/9 UltralightGranger 7'Granger 7 1/2'Granger 8'T&T 6' #3 CaenisPezon et Michel 6' MidgetPezon et Michel 7'7" ColorodoWinston 8' #5 (San Fransisco) Danny Twang wrote: PHY MidgePHY Driggs RiverPHY PerfectionistPHY Para15PHY JJPezon & Michel Ritz Fario ClubHardy TourneyPayne 100HDickerson 6611Dickerson 7613 In the same spirit of Darryl's posting about materialthat the newbies may not have seen. Maybe we can putup a list of our 5 to 10 top tapers. My list:Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.Payne 101Dickerson 8013PHY Driggs River 7'2", 4/5 wt.PHY Perfectionist from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Nov 15 06:48:14 2001 fAFCmDH15872 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:48:13 -0600 HAA15065; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: PU Glue --------------F70C8F9377EAC813B569E21D Used Gorilla glue for a couple of PHY midges - amazing stuff. I thentried it to repair my wife's CEMENT bird bath. The bowl had fallen offand broken. Shot the squirrel, then used Gorilla glue to put the halvesback together. Been sitting out there holding water like new for over ayear now (including holding ice last winter). Just DO NOT get it onyour skin, will turn it an ugly color until you molt.dws. Ed Riddle wrote: Lot of references on the List to foamy "PU Glue". What "off the shelfbrand names" do you recommend for us non-glueologists?TIA.Ed --------------F70C8F9377EAC813B569E21D DO NOT get it on your skin, will turn it an ugly color until you molt.dws.Ed Riddle wrote: Lot brand names" do you recommend for us non-glueologists?TIA.Ed --------------F70C8F9377EAC813B569E21D-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Nov 15 06:58:04 2001 fAFCvxH16182 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:57:59 - rodmakers Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers At 01:56 PM 11/15/2001 +0800, Tony Young wrote: How about:PHY DriggsPayne 98Dickerson 7614WC 7' #4 (Sir D) Tony At 10:37 AM 11/14/01 -0800, Bill Walters wrote: In the same spirit of Darryl's posting about materialthat the newbies may not have seen. Maybe we can putup a list of our 5 to 10 top tapers. My list:Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.Payne 101Dickerson 8013PHY Driggs River 7'2", 4/5 wt.PHY Perfectionist 8'6" W&M Granger Aristocrat7'6" A&F "Favorite" by EdwardsPHY Driggs (Thanks Bob)F.E. Thomas (Ala Joe Perego)9' Lyon & Coulson Regent #123 8 wt (Same as Heddon Peeerles). The Granger is my favorite, it's semi-parabolic action just feels good andit works well off the tip and at long distance with a Triangle taper 4/5.The Driggs is the natural short rod for the paraholic. Gives me the samegood feeling as the Granger. The Edwards has a taper much like the Sir D.it is very fast with a WF 5 and does best for me with a 5-6 TT. It is acanno, not the best for small stream work but fished very well on theAusable and on the Grand. It will sling small streamers as well as drys.Joe's FET is an elegant rod, light in the hand, crisp and delivers a nicetight loop. Although I have cast this taper a lot, I've not fished with oneof these nor have I fished the Driggs. I just fell in love with the Driggsthat Bob M brought to our little Western NY gathering. I think I will befishing one soon! The L&C is my favorite Bass Rod, a bit heavy to work allday, but gets a lot of line out and can lift it up again without muchtrouble. I hope to hook a steelhead with this, only bass so far. BTW I castthe Smithwick spiral and loved it, but I didnt get a chance to cast itenough (everybody wants to cast this one). -Doug Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. "- Albert Einstein (1879- 1955)/*************************************************************************/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Nov 15 07:03:48 2001 fAFD3mH16446 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:03:48 - Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question A DT5 should be heavier than a WF5 at 40-45 ft. The diameter of the DT5will be constant while beyond 30 ft., a WF will decrease in diameter (the "running" or "shooting" part of the taper.) Haven't seen any actual weight comparisons, though. --Rich from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 15 07:15:44 2001 fAFDFiH16890 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:15:44 - ;Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:15:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers Marty, What is the line weight on the Pezon 7-7 Colorado, is the taperavailable on this rod? I haven't seen this one before. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Pezon et Michel 7'7" Colorodo from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Nov 15 07:16:55 2001 fAFDGnH17032 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:16:54 -0600 Subject: Re: PU Glue Was that the squirrel's halves you glued back together??? [:-)] Sorry, I couldn't resist!!! John K Subject: Re: PU Glue Used Gorilla glue for a couple of PHY midges - amazing stuff. I then =tried it to repair my wife's CEMENT bird bath. The bowl had fallen off =and broken. Shot the squirrel, then used Gorilla glue to put the halves =back together. Been sitting out there holding water like new for over a =year now (including holding ice last winter). Just DO NOT get it on = Lot of references on the List to foamy "PU Glue". What "off the =shelf brand names" do you recommend for us non-glueologists?TIA.Ed Was that the squirrel's halves you = together??? :-) Sorry, I couldn't =resist!!! John K ----- Original Message ----- Cc: rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, November 15, = AMSubject: Re: PU Glue water like new for over a year now (including holding ice last = Just DO NOT get it on your skin, will turn it an ugly color until you = Lot of references on the List to = non-glueologists?TIA.Ed from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 15 07:20:37 2001 fAFDKVH17380 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:20:36 - Subject: Re: Top 10 Favorite Tapers Driggs River SpecialDickerson 8013Payne 101Heddon FolsomGarrison 202eYoung Martha MarieCattanach Sir D Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Nov 15 08:25:02 2001 fAFEP2H19411 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:25:02 -0600 Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:25:04 -0800 Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:25:02 GMT Subject: RE: using step down ferrules FILETIME=[514ACB90:01C16DE1] Bill: statement to be very accurate. Common sinse should tell us that a rod witha large step increase at the ferrule, would not likely be slow or parabolic init's action. Rods with this large step increase at the ferrule would be stiff inthe middle, thus making them faster in "'Mark & Kathy Pohl '" taper for a Dickerson book only show 11/14/2001 1:27 PM Is the step of the Also, how Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Nov 15 08:31:38 2001 fAFEVbH20030 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:31:38 - for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:31:32 - Subject: Electro Etching Systems All.Here is the info on the unit I use to etch my logo on reel seat caps. You can find the equipment at http://wwwmarkingmethods.com I use the Mark 300 unit, but the 45MKK unit would work for our application. Prices range from $700-$300 .Best Hal. from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Nov 15 08:49:26 2001 fAFEnPH21023 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:49:25 - id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:43:12 -0500 id V8NVMNPH; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:43:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Electro Etching Systems The link should be http://www.markingmethods.com/ baconrod@gsmrinc.comwrote: All.Here is the info on the unit I use to etch my logo on reel seatcaps. You can find the equipment athttp://wwwmarkingmethods.com I use the Mark 300 unit, but the45MKK unit would work for our application. Prices range from $700-$300 .Best Hal. -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from SBDunn@aol.com Thu Nov 15 10:47:44 2001 Received: from imo- fAFGlhH00033 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id 4.b8.1e66af16 (4570) for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN AJ's top 10 post brings aquestion to my mind. Do the various Granger models of the same lengthshare the same taper like Heddon rods do or does the taper vary from modelto model? Thanks, Steve. > from OSEGAL@glcc.com Thu Nov 15 10:50:40 fAFGodH00602 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 USGSFS01.g-l.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:50:33 -0500 Internet Agent 5.5.3.1 Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:22:01 -0500 From: Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- Oscar P.S. I wonder if I will ever get to that mark??? 11/14/01 10:27PM >>> Just finished sanding the glue off my 100 th rod tonite and it looks like =a keeper . So l guess.... l have at last become journyman rod maker . =family and freinds dont get it but l thought here would be some folks that = My sincere congratulations!! Oscar P.S. I wonder if I will ever get to thatmark???= finished sanding the glue off my 100 th rod tonite and it looks like a = = family and freinds dont get it but l thought here would be some folks = from OSEGAL@glcc.com Thu Nov 15 10:50:45 2001 fAFGoiH00618 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:50:45 - with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:50:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Mortises for reel seat spacers Dave, If you would be kind enough to look for it and share it with me I would =appreciate it. Thanks, Oscar If I remember right, I think I had an article in the planing form, back = Dave, If you would be kind enough to look for it and share = me I would appreciate it. Thanks, Oscar form, back a while ago on building a mortising fixture for use with a = still have it in my computer somewhere. Dave LeClairhttp://hometown.aol.= from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Nov 15 11:10:47 2001 fAFHAgH02459 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:10:46 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:10:48 -0800 Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:10:48 GMT Subject: Re: Granger Rods FILETIME=[7875D630:01C16DF8] Nominally the taper was the same from model to model, there was variation from rod to rod like all the mfgs. For instance I have tapers for the 8 1/2 ft that is either a solid 5wt or a solid 6 wt. Seemed like they were heavier in taper as time progressed, but that could be my unique experience.A.J. From: SBDunn@aol.com Subject: Granger RodsDate: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:47:37 EST AJ's top 10 post brings a question to my mind. Do the various Granger modelsof the same length share the same taper like Heddon rods do or does the tapervary from model to model? Thanks, Steve. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 15 11:19:02 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAFHJ1H03055 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:19:01 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:19:08 -0600 Subject: RE: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I use them a lot and don't have any problems. That includes seats withwooden inserts, but I've come to prefer cork seats. After a lot of use yousometimes get an imprint in the cork from the reel seat, but exposure of theimprinted area to steam (like that coming out of the spout of a whistlingteapot) revives the cork nicely. And this doesn't go only for very lightrods -- in fact I have a Sharpe 12' 10 wt spey rod with a cork/ring seat(like many older bamboo spey rods) and it holds a 4" salmon reel in placevery well (though I admit I haven't caught any salmon with it). Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) I've never had a rod that had a slip ring type reel seat. Are they secure ordoes the reel keep loosening up and you gotta keep messing with it? -Mark from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 15 11:24:35 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAFHOYH03513 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:24:34 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:24:42 -0600 edriddle@mindspring.com Subject: RE: PU Glue this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Isn't alcohol a lot safer? I believe acetone is considered relativelydangerous as solvents go...Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: PU Glue Ed The glue that Rob Kope sent me from the US originally was Elmer's Probond,and it was a really great glue to use. These PU's are all real snotmines, though, and it is a good idea to do whatI suggest and keep a dish of 60-70% alcohol close handy to deal with thefoam. I notice that Danny uses acetone. Never tried that as alcohol iseasier for me, but Danny wouldn't recommend it if it didn't work. Peter Isn't alcohol a lot safer? I believe acetone is considered relatively dangerous as solvents go...Barry -----Original Message-----From: Peter McKean November 15, rodmakersSubject: Re: PU GlueEd The glue that Rob Kope sent me from the US originally was Elmer's Probond, and it was a really great glue to use. These PU's are all real snotmines, though,and it acetone. Never tried that as alcohol is easier for me, but Danny wouldn't recommend it if it didn't work. Peter from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Nov 15 11:37:04 2001 fAFHaxH04450 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:36:59 - id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:25:28 -0800 rodmakers Subject: RE: Swelled butts-the garrison method v. Dickerson & Payne Garrison had method for calculating the amount of swell he wanted in a rod. Graph the taper dimensions on paper. Extend the taper to determine whatthedimension of the extreme end of the butt should be (the part at the verybase of the reel seat). Use this measurement for the diameter of the butt under the hand- graspandreel seat (ie, the last 10 inches of the rod have a uniform diameter and notaper). Swell the rod dimensions from the last measurement 2.5" or 5" in front ofthe hand-grasp to the diameter under the handle. Dickerson and payne approached this a little differently.If you look at a large number of their tapers, you'll notice a uniformdiameter under the handle of .345 (my theory is because they used massproduced hardware with an ID of .345, and made every rod to fit the reelseat). Off hand, I can't remember how far from the front of the hand-graspthey started the swell, but look a taper in the archive to figure it out. Chris. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 15 11:41:02 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAFHf2H04793 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:41:02 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:41:09 -0600 Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Myexperience is that if I can cast almost all of a WF line with a rod (that'sthe limit of my casting ability) I can throw at least 3/4 of a DT line withthat rod - - still a pretty long cast. I felt this way back in my graphitedays, so it's not a bamboo thing. Of course I use WF surf casting, when Iget a chance to do it, and when bass fishing from a boat on a big lake, but which generally make graphite look pathetic when roll casting. IMHO, of course. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Line Wt. Question CheersCraig from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 15 11:50:35 2001 fAFHoXH05395 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:50:33 - Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question Personaly I prefer WF lines because they need a smaller reel to allow the line to fit with a LOT of backing.Besides, isn't roll casting something you do to flush out the trout you haven't seen yet? [:-)] Tony At 11:41 AM 11/15/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Myexperience is that if I can cast almost all of a WF line with a rod (that'sthe limit of my casting ability) I can throw at least 3/4 of a DT line withthat rod - - still a pretty long cast. I felt this way back in my graphitedays, so it's not a bamboo thing. Of course I use WF surf casting, when Iget a chance to do it, and when bass fishing from a boat on a big lake, but which generally make graphite look pathetic when roll casting. IMHO, of course. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question sothe DT5 will be between a WF5 and a WF6. > Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: Craig Naldrett Sent: 11/14/2001 9:22 PMSubject: Line Wt. Question CheersCraig /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Thu Nov 15 11:56:03 2001 fAFHu2H05893 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:56:02 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:56:09 PST Subject: Top 10 There are so many tapers that I haven't cast yet, buthere are some rods that stood out for me in feel andapplication. I like a rod that has a full workingaction, but can also find more energy in the butt forlonger casts. I primarily fish small streams andseveral of Oregons famous rivers. The Payne 198 3/4 wt. and the Heddon #35 9' LTprobably have the fullest working action of theselisted in my opinion. The others have varying degreesof additional strength in the butt for stronger casts.The Leonard had a noticeable increase in slope atabout the 12"-15" point, and it threw nice flat loops from 15' to 40'. The McDowell 704DF is primarily astraight taper with bigger increases below the ferruleand going into the cork. I doubt it's original. Ireserve the right to have an ever changing list astime goes on. As soon as I hit the send button I'llprobably recall another, but you have to go with themoment and hope for the best. Chris McDowell Payne 198 (early edition)Garrison 206Garrison 209eLeonard 38-3Thramer Dx seriesHeddon #35 9' Light Trout Edwards Quadrate #25Dickerson 7012McDowell 704DF __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 15 12:10:04 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAFIA3H06696 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:10:03 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:10:10 -0600 Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question Dear Tony: I consider the trout where I fish to have been pre-released, which is atleast two spiritual levels above C&R. Having risen so far above the materialplane, it isn't necessary to see them. Or, apparently, to catch them. Yours in karma, Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question Personaly I prefer WF lines because they need a smaller reel to allow the line to fit with a LOT of backing.Besides, isn't roll casting something you do to flush out the trout you haven't seen yet? [:-)] Tony At 11:41 AM 11/15/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Myexperience is that if I can cast almost all of a WF line with a rod (that'sthe limit of my casting ability) I can throw at least 3/4 of a DT line withthat rod - - still a pretty long cast. I felt this way back in my graphitedays, so it's not a bamboo thing. Of course I use WF surf casting, when Iget a chance to do it, and when bass fishing from a boat on a big lake, but which generally make graphite look pathetic when roll casting. IMHO, of course. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question sothe DT5 will be between a WF5 and a WF6. > Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: Craig Naldrett Sent: 11/14/2001 9:22 PMSubject: Line Wt. Question CheersCraig /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Thu Nov 15 12:21:22 2001 fAFILLH07385 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:21:21 - id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:10:08 -0800 Subject: FW: Swelled butts-the garrison method v. Dickerson & Payne Garrison had method for calculating the amount ofswell he wanted in a rod. Graph the taper dimensions on paper. Extend thetaper to determine what thedimension of the extreme end of the butt should be(the part at the verybase of the reel seat). Use this measurement for the diameter of the buttunder the hand-grasp andreel seat (ie, the last 10 inches of the rod have auniform diameter and notaper). Swell the rod dimensions from the last measurement2.5" or 5" in front ofthe hand-grasp to the diameter under the handle. Dickerson and payne approached this a littledifferently.If you look at a large number of their tapers,you'll notice a uniformdiameter under the handle of .345 (my theory isbecause they used massproduced hardware with an ID of .345, and made everyrod to fit the reelseat). Off hand, I can't remember how far from thefront of the hand-graspthey started the swell, but look a taper in thearchive to figure it out. Chris. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 15 13:03:14 2001 fAFJ3BH09790 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:03:12 - Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question I doesn't get much deeper than that. You use a hook, don't you? [:-)] Tony At 12:10 PM 11/15/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: Dear Tony: I consider the trout where I fish to have been pre-released, which is atleast two spiritual levels above C&R. Having risen so far above the materialplane, it isn't necessary to see them. Or, apparently, to catch them. Yours in karma, Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question Personaly I prefer WF lines because they need a smaller reel to allow theline to fit with a LOT of backing.Besides, isn't roll casting something you do to flush out the trout youhaven't seen yet? [:-)] Tony At 11:41 AM 11/15/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Myexperience is that if I can cast almost all of a WF line with a rod (that'sthe limit of my casting ability) I can throw at least 3/4 of a DT line withthat rod - - still a pretty long cast. I felt this way back in my graphitedays, so it's not a bamboo thing. Of course I use WF surf casting, when Iget a chance to do it, and when bass fishing from a boat on a big lake, but which generally make graphite look pathetic when roll casting. IMHO, of course. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question sothe DT5 will be between a WF5 and a WF6. > Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: Craig Naldrett Sent: 11/14/2001 9:22 PMSubject: Line Wt. Question CheersCraig /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Nov 15 13:10:56 2001 fAFJAtH10376 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:10:55 - for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:10:49 - 1115141049; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:10:49 -0500 Subject: Heat Guns FYI - www.grizzly.com has their 1800W variable setting heat gun on sale rightnow for $19.95... from steve@hamiltonrods.com Thu Nov 15 13:47:55 2001 fAFJltH12578 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:47:55 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:48:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question FILETIME=[80F3E6B0:01C16E0E] fAFJltH12579 Barry wrote: The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than 30' of line plus leader? the same taper. --Steve from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 15 14:22:04 2001 fAFKM3H14252 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:22:03 - 15 Nov 2001 12:22:07 PST Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than30' of line plus leader? often! ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from steve@hamiltonrods.com Thu Nov 15 15:30:38 2001 fAFLUcH17846 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:30:38 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:31:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question FILETIME=[D864D130:01C16E1C] fAFLUcH17847 Timothy Troester wrote: Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than30' of line plus leader? often! Cool. Here on the North Carolina streams I fish it's not often you ever evenuse 30 feet of line let alone roll cast that much. If you see a fish rising 30feet away, the best way to get the fly to it is to get down on your hands andknees and crawl the first 15 feet [:)] --Steve from alspicer99@yahoo.com Thu Nov 15 15:42:38 2001 fAFLgWH18661 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:42:36 - 15 Nov 2001 13:42:39 PST Subject: List of 10 top tapers All, Let's have some fun! I took all the responses to the 5to 10 top taper question and compiled a list inalphabetical order. How about we try to narrow downthe list some? If people would like to pick their topfive in order, (email me off the list) I will compilethe results and post them. Let's set a deadline of 11-21-01 to get yournominations to me and I'll post final tally afterThanksgiving. Please make sure you send your reply OFF THE LIST.Don't want to eat up space on the server or overburden the list members. Have a great day, Al SpicerGreensboro, NC ****** Tapers ******* A&F "Favorite" by Edwards 7'6" Cattanach 7' #4 (Sir D)Dickerson 6611Dickerson 7613Dickerson 7614Dickerson 8013Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.F.E. Thomas (Ala Joe Perego)Garrison 202eGarrison 206eGarrison 212eGranger 7'Granger 7 1/2'Granger 8'Granger 8 1/2 ftGranger Aristocrat 8'6" W&M Granger 4 3/4 oz 9fHeddon FolsomHardy TourneyLeonard 8 1/2ft to 9 1/2 ft tounament rods for a 4 or a 5Leonard 50 DFLeonard 39 DFLyon & Coulson Regent #123 9' 8 wt(Same as Heddon Peeerles).Orvis 5/9 UltralightPHY Driggs River SpecialPHY PerfectionistPHY Para15PHY JJPHY Martha MariePayne 98Payne 101Payne 100HPayne 201Payne 204Pezon & Michel 6' MidgetPezon & Michel 7'7" ColorodoPezon & Michel Ritz Fario ClubT&T 6' #3 CaenisWinston 8' #5 (San Fransisco) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from bob@downandacross.com Thu Nov 15 16:40:59 2001 fAFMerH21411 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:40:57 - 15 Nov 2001 17:40:52 -0500 Subject: Digger 2 wt. As asked for, here is the taper for my 2 wt Degere rod. I own the originaland have mic'd it. Varnish is already taken off. I would ask that if youmake this rod, please do it only for your personal use. Although I nevermeet Mr Degere, I have been told by excellent sources that he did not wish rodmakers themselves. I can live with that, and I am sure you all can too.Thanks, very much.Bob Digger 2 wt. 6'9" "Ice Cream Parlor Hole Special" .073.089.100.111.132.150.160.169.176.182.192.201.218.226.250.250 (continues under grip) Guide spacing: 4, 8.25, 14.125, 20.25, 26.75, 34.75 2.375, 9.75, 17" (stripper) from DragonflyMAE@aol.com Thu Nov 15 17:19:21 2001 fAFNJGH22892 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:19:16 - for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:19:13 - Subject: Morgan Hand Mill I've been making rods using a set of conventional forms and am concidering buying a morgan hand mill. I would love to but a used mill and perhaps save some money, Anyone out there selling theirs? Any tips?PeaceMatthew I've been making rodsusing a set of conventional forms and am concidering buying a morgan hand from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Nov 15 17:31:06 2001 fAFNV5H23761 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:31:06 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:31:08 -0800 Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:31:08 GMT Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question FILETIME=[9A2FC490:01C16E2D] I second the superior qualities of the Dt line. I use WF's only for full sinking lines where they seem to make sense. Of course I hate to use sinking lines so.... That is the starting point with conversations with customers about cane throw out the WF's and buy a real line like a DT [:)] A.J. From: "Kling, Barry W." Subject: RE: Line Wt. QuestionDate: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:41:07 -0600 The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Myexperience is that if I can cast almost all of a WF line with a rod (that'sthe limit of my casting ability) I can throw at least 3/4 of a DT line withthat rod - - still a pretty long cast. I felt this way back in my graphitedays, so it's not a bamboo thing. Of course I use WF surf casting, when Iget a chance to do it, and when bass fishing from a boat on a big lake, but which generally make graphite look pathetic when roll casting. IMHO, of course. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question sothe DT5 will be between a WF5 and a WF6. > Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: Craig Naldrett Sent: 11/14/2001 9:22 PMSubject: Line Wt. Question CheersCraig _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 15 17:37:26 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAFNbQH24241 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:37:26 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:37:33 -0600 Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question Often! Like whenever there's a tree behind me and 60 feet of water in frontof me. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question Barry wrote: The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than 30' of line plusleader? For the fly lines I've purchased, the first 30' of a DT and WF lineare exactly the same taper. --Steve from homes-sold@home.com Thu Nov 15 18:57:13 2001 fAG0vCH27785 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:57:12 - femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:57:14 -0800 Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question Steve,Here in the rivers of the NW more often than not. With 60+ ft in front and10 ft or less behind and no way to get closer you either do a roll cast, asingle or double spey cast. Actually a spey cast with a single handed rod isa good tool to have in your bag of tricks, try it some time.Don Timothy Troester wrote: Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than30' of line plus leader? from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 15 19:30:24 2001 fAG1UNH28859 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:30:23 - helo=g2t8c9) id 164Xpu-0005Nw-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:30:30 -0800 Subject: line question All this talk on DT and WF and roll casting 60ft well...I have been doingthis for quite awhile and while casting is fun Consistently setting hooks onpurpose at 60ft is well very impressive. I was not aware there were so manyspey casters on the list using 12ft rods. Casting 60ft of line is a goodacomplishment for a trout rod and in the rods length 7'-8.5' and a 10 footleader with 2 feet of tippet you are getting out there a possible 80' andstill setting the hook with a drag free drift...well done. Were I fish trout are kind enough to locate themselves within 40' and thereare usually many of his friends closer then that. Adam Vigil from pohl@earthlink.net Thu Nov 15 19:38:21 2001 fAG1cGH29210 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:38:16 - id 164XxW-0006Y6-00; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:38:22 -0800 Subject: Re: using step down ferrules Bill, Am I saying it right or should it be step-up ferrule? The butt end comes inright at 12/64 and the tip end is almost 11/64 (.176) @ 42". When you buy aferrule that is stepped, what is the size differance between the two ends.If I chose to use a straight 12/64 ferrule, do you use shims on tip to fitthe ferrule better. - Mark ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: using step down ferrules I doubt that you need a step down on a 7012. Look at the taper for aGillum 1-685, it has a .028 step. I once measured an original Dickerson8015 which had a similar step, although the ones in Howell's book only show .018. They can be difficult without a step down. In my limited experience the step makes the rod faster. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: Mark & Kathy Pohl Sent: 11/14/2001 1:27 PMSubject: using step down ferrules What is a step down ferrule and when should you use one? Is the step1/64?I'm looking at building adickerson 7012 and I'm not sure if this taper calls for (orshould/shouldn'tuse) a step downferrule. The end of the tip (@ 42") is .176 and the beginning of thebutt (@42) is .188. If I build thisrod I thought that I would just need a regular 12/64 ferrule. Also, howdoes a step down or no step ferruleaffect the action of the rod?- Thanks, Mark from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Nov 15 20:03:30 2001 fAG23TH29935 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:03:29 - Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question The Wulff TT lines and the Airflow Deltas roll cast better for me than anyother line I've tried. -Doug At 02:48 PM 11/15/2001 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: Barry wrote: The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than 30' of line plus leader? For the fly lines I've purchased, the first 30' of a DT and WF lineare exactly the same taper. --Steve from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Nov 15 21:00:13 2001 fAG30CH01593 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:00:12 - for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:00:08 - Subject: Re: Morgan Hand Mill I've been using a Morgan Handmill for about three years now, and here is my honest opinion. It can't be beat if you want to make 4 and 5 strip rods.For just another $125 each you can get the other cutter sets to be able to doso. Even if you could find someone to make the forms, with 4 and 5 sided rods, you need two forms to be able to plane the both sides of the strips. If you only want to make 6 sided rods your money is better spent on a poweredrough beveler, especially if you already have conventional forms. Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/15/01 3:20:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, DragonflyMAE@aol.com writes: I've been making rods using a set of conventional forms and am concidering buying a morgan hand mill. I would love to but a used mill and perhaps save some money, Anyone out there selling theirs? Any tips? Peace Matthew I've been using a Morgan Handmill for about three years now, and here ismy honest opinion. It can't be beat if you want to make 4 and 5 striprods.For just another $125 each you can get the other cutter sets to be ableto do so. Even if you could find someone to make the forms, with 4 and 5sided rods, you need two forms to be able to plane the both sides of thestrips. If you only want to make 6 sided rods your money is better spent on apowered rough beveler, especially if you already have conventional forms. Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/15/01 3:20:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,DragonflyMAE@aol.com writes:I've been makingrods using a set of conventional forms and am concidering buying a morgan from frank.haran@sympatico.ca Thu Nov 15 21:14:38 2001 fAG3EbH02368 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:14:37 - Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:14:39 -0500 "Adam Vigil" Subject: RE: Planning forms Adam,I called Grindstone Angler a couple of weeks ago and their 60" forms nowretail for $450 Canadian. Still too steep for me I am going to build myown. Cheers,Frank. Forms from Grindstone Anglers in Canada around $300 Canadian Adam Vigil from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 15 21:38:14 2001 fAG3cDH03260 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:38:13 - helo=g2t8c9) id 164Zpb-0002QV-00; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:38:20 -0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Planning forms Ouch! That is to bad. Try to get a copy of The Best Of The Planing Form and lookinto making your forms with aluminum angles. If you groove your plane theywill work great and no nicking! Adam Vigil I called Grindstone Angler a couple of weeks ago and their 60" forms nowretail for $450 Canadian. Still too steep for me I am going to build myown. Cheers,Frank. from can@telusplanet.net Thu Nov 15 22:07:25 2001 fAG47OH03997 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:07:25 - Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question Thanks for replies from the group, Christopher Obuchowski's replymatches my feelings that a DT5 is "about" a WF 5.5. I now need toconvince the lads who hold a differing view & I cast DT's about 75% ofthe time, depends on the stick I'm using.-- Cheers Craig > from bob@downandacross.com Thu Nov 15 22:42:08 2001 From: "Bob Maulucci" , "Adam Vigil" Subject: RE: Planning forms Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:41:57 - 0500 Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X- 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Their forms are rather nice,and that does not seem too steep. I think that is about $325 US? I think it isgreat to build your own, but honestly, it is still my contention that trying tobuild a form better than someone who builds 20-50 a year is not going tohappen. If $350 scares you off, you are in the wrong hobby. (Or maybe youare just a heck of a lot more rational than I am!) Good luck. BTW, I have justrecieved a nice piece by Don Schneider for the January 2002 Power Fibersthat will help you out if you are not done by then. Bob -----Original Message--- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Frank and Faith Sent: Thursday, Planning forms Adam, I called Grindstone Angler a couple of weeks ago andtheir 60" forms now retail for $450 Canadian. Still too steep for me I amgoing to build my own. Cheers, Frank. Forms from Grindstone Anglers in Canada around $300 Canadian Adam Vigil from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 15 23:12:24 2001 fAG5CJH05685 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:12:24 -0600 helo=default) id 164bIc-00024G-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:12:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Planning forms While I would encourage anyone who wants to do so to build their own forms,I will also add that when finished you will know why forms cost what theydo. M-D Their forms are rather nice, and that does not seem too steep. I think that is about $325 US? I think it is great to build your own, but honestly, it is still my contention that trying to build a form better than someone whobuilds 20-50 a year is not going to happen. If $350 scares you off, you are in the wrong hobby. (Or maybe you are just a heck of a lot more rationalthan I am!)Good luck. BTW, I have just recieved a nice piece by Don Schneider for theJanuary 2002 Power Fibers that will help you out if you are not done bythen.Bob Adam,I called Grindstone Angler a couple of weeks ago and their 60" forms nowretail for $450 Canadian. Still too steep for me I am going to build myown. Cheers,Frank. Forms from Grindstone Anglers in Canada around $300 Canadian Adam Vigil from saweiss@flash.net Thu Nov 15 23:46:59 2001 fAG5kwH06537 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:46:58 - fAG5l3f269180; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:47:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Reel seats (locking vs.slip ring) Organization: Prodigy Internet Put dual slip rings over cork, and you will never have a problem... When I put dual rings on a cork filler I always caution the user to avoid ascrewing motion when tightening the rings over the reel feet. I think thatwill erode the cork and result in eventual ly being too loose to hold thereel. If the rings are slid firmly over the reel feet, they will not slipdown and should not eat into the cork opposite the feet.With a wood filler, I only use a single ring and a butt cap, either theGarrison type or a mortised type.Steve from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Thu Nov 15 23:53:45 2001 fAG5riH06819 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:53:44 - helo=jg1004129) id 164bwl-0000ia-00 for Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:53:51 -0800 Subject: Splitting Thanks! I just tried the vise method of splitting and I have to say to everyone whohas been talking about it on the list, THANK-YOU!! Cleanest, most evenstrips ever! Every strip on my first culm split this way is usable exceptone that was ruined by the original check split that wandered and anotherdue to a leaf node. Nearly verticle edges on every strip to boot! I am justwondering how thin I can go on my next culm. I got 16 out of 18 possible ona fairly small diameter culm. I have a few jumbo culms I was saving until Igot better at splitting. I think it might be time! I can't believe what adifference it makes, WOW! I've been splitting free hand til now, but neveragain. This list is great! I am going back to lurking again, but I just wanted tosay thanks! Jeremy GrayNevada City Anglers417 Broad Street #CNevada City, CA 95959530-478-9301 from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Nov 16 00:09:06 2001 fAG696H07492 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:09:06 -0600 helo=g2t8c9) id 164cBb-0001xW-00; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:09:11 -0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Planning forms Oh! $325 in U.S. dollars, I agree that is reasonable. But a lot of guysbuild their forms and love them. I bought mine and only have a kind fondnesstoward them. Now my beveler is a differant story. It is the ugliest thing Ihave ever loved...well maybe the second ugliest thing. Adam Vigil Their forms are rather nice, and that does not seem too steep. I think thatis about $325 US?Bob from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 16 00:55:29 2001 fAG6tSH08501 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:55:28 -0600 15 Nov 2001 22:55:31 PST Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question "'Rodmakers '" Timothy Troester wrote: Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than 30' of line plus leader? i didn't write this. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 16 02:51:33 2001 fAG8pWH10954 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 02:51:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Splitting Thanks! The followers of the method keep harping about it for that reason [:-)] Tony At 09:48 PM 11/15/01 -0800, Jeremy Gray wrote: I just tried the vise method of splitting and I have to say to everyone whohas been talking about it on the list, THANK-YOU!! Cleanest, most evenstrips ever! Every strip on my first culm split this way is usable exceptone that was ruined by the original check split that wandered and anotherdue to a leaf node. Nearly verticle edges on every strip to boot! I am justwondering how thin I can go on my next culm. I got 16 out of 18 possible ona fairly small diameter culm. I have a few jumbo culms I was saving until Igot better at splitting. I think it might be time! I can't believe what adifference it makes, WOW! I've been splitting free hand til now, but neveragain. This list is great! I am going back to lurking again, but I just wanted tosay thanks! Jeremy GrayNevada City Anglers417 Broad Street #CNevada City, CA 95959530-478-9301 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from "Marty D. aka \"none" Fri Nov 16 04:54:40 2001 fAGAseH12472 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 04:54:40 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4169. . Clean. Processed in 0.417628 secs); 16 Nov 200110:54:43 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Planning forms As much as we all hate doing it. Nicking your planing form in no waydecreasesit's effectivness. You could in fact take a hacksaw and cut perpendicularslices every 1/4" all the way up the form and still have a very accurateform.I wouldn't suggest doing it though .Marty Adam Vigil wrote: Ouch! That is to bad. Try to get a copy of The Best Of The Planing Form and lookinto making your forms with aluminum angles. If you groove your plane theywill work great and no nicking! Adam Vigil I called Grindstone Angler a couple of weeks ago and their 60" forms nowretail for $450 Canadian. Still too steep for me I am going to build myown. Cheers,Frank. from Lazybee45@aol.com Fri Nov 16 05:12:23 2001 fAGBCNH12833 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 05:12:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning forms In a message dated 11/15/01 11:14:02 PM Central Standard Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: Even when made of Maple! I made mine, they are OK and work well enough,but sheesh are they labor intensive!mark from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Nov 16 05:32:09 2001 fAGBW8H13329 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 05:32:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning forms That is my thought. What is one's time worth? When I started, I thought ittime better spent planing rather than making forms. John K Even when made of Maple! I made mine, they are OK and work well enough, but sheesh are they labor intensive!mark from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 16 05:47:40 2001 fAGBlcH13714 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 05:47:38 -0600 fAGAdI100872; Subject: Re: PU Glue Barry I use alcohol as a solvent here because, as I said, I tend to have lots =of it around. It's certainly safe enough, depending on how much of it =you choose to drink, especially after it has had a lot of polyurethane =dissolved in it. Don't really know anything about acetone; have had very limited use of =it in my work over the years, but never in quantities that would lead to =overt exposure. I also use small quantities to dissolve plexiglass to =brew Bob Nunley's wood stabilising formula. Certainly, in a physiological sense, aldehydes and ketones are a group =of chemicals that have some very un-nice members; but I think in most =cases it's yet another case of "It ain't wot you fish, it's the way wot =you fish it", and if you are careful to limit your exposure you are =probably OK . Peter Barry I use alcohol as a solvent here = I tend to have lots of it around. It's certainly safe enough, depending = polyurethane dissolved in it. Don't really know anything about = very limited use of it in my work over the years, but never in = would lead to overt exposure. I also use small quantities to dissolve = to brew Bob Nunley's wood stabilising formula. Certainly, in a physiological sense, = ketones are a group of chemicals that have some very un-nice members; = think in most cases it's yet another case of "It ain't wot you fish, = Peter from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 16 06:27:02 2001 fAGCR1H14391 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:27:01 -0600 Subject: Flyfisherman Magazine Hello All, Does anyone have a copy of the Rod Builder issue of Fly FishermanMagazine? It was published in the first year of the mags existence. Ijust met a gentleman (very interesting, and opinionated) that was afeatured builder from the era. I would like to get a copy of the text ifanyone has it. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 16 08:13:05 2001 fAGED5H15813 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:13:05 -0600 (authenticated) for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 06:12:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequateforms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build arod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms forsayingthat home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'llstand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not be asnicelooking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of ourtime, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Those ofyouwho saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shiny asanyyou will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making strips thesame size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixenfile. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's fileplanes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 16 08:21:58 2001 fAGELuH16189 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:21:57 -0600 Subject: REC ferrule order/ delete if not involved RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu All the order should be to me any day. As soon as I get it I will mail everybody's stuff to them. These orders take a little more time and work than I expected. Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) All the order should be Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 16 08:24:39 2001 fAGEOdH16493 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:24:39 -0600 helo=default) id 164jvC-0000Bz-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:24:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine Interesting and opinionated -- hard to imagine, isn't it? M-D Hello All, Does anyone have a copy of the Rod Builder issue of Fly FishermanMagazine? It was published in the first year of the mags existence. Ijust met a gentleman (very interesting, and opinionated) that was afeatured builder from the era. I would like to get a copy of the text ifanyone has it. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Nov 16 08:28:26 2001 fAGESPH16868 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:28:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms That would make my forms cost about $500 if I made them myself. I stillbelieve time better spent planing Maybe at some point, if I feel the urge to make them for the experience, Iwill make a set. In the meantime, I'm happy with my "store bought" set. That's my 2 cents worth. John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequateforms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build a rod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms for saying that home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'll stand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not be as nice looking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of ourtime, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Those of you who saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shiny as any you will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making strips the same size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's fileplanes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 16 08:35:11 2001 fAGEZAH17429 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:35:10 -0600 helo=default) id 164k5N-0002G9-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:35:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms 20 hours, plus the $ 200.00 you spent on tooling to build them. ;o) M-D I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequateforms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build a rod. SNIP Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's fileplanes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from homes-sold@home.com Fri Nov 16 08:45:19 2001 fAGEjDH18070 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:45:18 -0600 femail35.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Re: Planning forms Admittedly, for the hobbyist, draw filing the bars for metal forms is timeconsuming and not terribly exciting, but it does give one a since of prideand accomplishment, same as a rod, when completed. Probably will take youthe same amount of time or less to build metal forms as it would to build arod.Wooden forms can be built just as accurate and perform just as well in abouta 4th the time.If time is money and you are going to be a production shop, buy all thetools with all the bells and whistles you are going to need. IMHO if time ismoney is the only issue, buy a rod and go fishing.Don from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Nov 16 08:58:03 2001 fAGEw2H18920 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:58:03 -0600 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:58:05 -0500 Subject: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms FILETIME=[1894ED70:01C16EAF] It took me weeks, no, months to build my forms, part time. Of course, it takes me much longer to build a rod than the 40-60 hours most people onthe list report, I'm just slow. The time draw filing and grooving was enormous, because the metal was sohard. Somebody recently mentioned a CRS alloy that wasn't as hard as thekeystock I must have gotten. Does anybody remember the designation? I would definitely recommend going with the more easily worked CRS. Bill At 08:10 AM 11/16/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequateforms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build arod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms for sayingthat home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'llstand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not be as nicelooking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of ourtime, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Those ofyouwho saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shiny asanyyou will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making stripsthesame size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixenfile. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's fileplanes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Nov 16 09:06:19 2001 fAGF6IH19707 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:06:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning forms fAGF6JH19708 Good Morning/Evening"you must have a 8aa finish on the faces of your forms"is another one of those rodmakers legends. I cleaned up myforms only to the point of working and guiding the plane.You do not have to spend all the time to take every singlescratch and or groove out. If you get 85% clean up on the faces that will work. I must agree with Harry also, with the added estimate of 35 hourstotal. Do to the fact that I already had the cutting tools($40), drill pressvice($30.00),and drill press($60-$100 Grizzly to Craftsman) my forms only cost $45 to build. The major cost was the shoulder bolts at $1.25 each.The bar stock was $17 for a 12' stick which was not too bad dollar wise. All of the tools with the exception of the taps can be used whenbuilding rods. The drill press I use for everything from opening up thehole in reel seats to pinning ferrules(just started pinning), makingcork handle clamps and building my binder. I will try to find my outline for building my forms and post it to my site again if anybody is interested. Bradhttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net there are two types of craftsman;the one who has the time to save money,and the one who has the money to save time.now ask oneself which do I wish to be... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** As much as we all hate doing it. Nicking your planing form in no waydecreasesit's effectivness. You could in fact take a hacksaw and cut perpendicularslices every 1/4" all the way up the form and still have a very accurateform.I wouldn't suggest doing it though .Marty from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Nov 16 09:22:58 2001 fAGFMqH20578 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:22:52 -0600 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:22:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing forms Well I have to go with Harry on this one.While the other statements are true as well.True you will spend money for tooling if you don't already own the =tooling.And True it's easy to buy a set.There is one big factor to consider.DO YOU HAVE THE SKILL :))I made my own set (metal forms)You don't want to go foolin yourself on this one.Of course you should have all ready answered that questionwhen you got into Split cane rod making.Now I'm NOT trying to knock the guys who bought their forms.:))But here is the break down:A: Made their forms, had the skill, have accurate =forms. B: Made their forms, Didn't have skill, inaccurate =forms.Result: saved money, glue line cityC: Bought your forms, No skill required, Accurate =forms.Result: Hope fully you have the skill to =make a rod.D: Bought forms, had the skill, Accurate forms, saved =time.Result: saved time/Spent cash (ka =chinge)/good rods I'm sure no one wants to be B: or C:Personally A: looks the best to me:)) a fly I tied:)) Saving money is the Fringe benefit to me.But that's a matter of opinion and personal taste:)) www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} While the other statements are true as well. tooling.And True it's easy to buy a set.There is one big factor to consider.DO YOU HAVE THE SKILL :)) You don't want to go foolin yourself on this one.Of course you should have all ready answered that questionwhen you got into Split cane rod making.Now I'm NOT trying to knock the guys who bought their =forms.:))But here is the break down: A: Made their forms, had the skill, have accurate forms. B: Made their forms, Didn't have skill, inaccurate forms. Result: saved money, glue line city C: Bought your forms, No skill required, Accurate forms. Hope fully you have the skill to make a rod. D: Bought forms, had the skill, Accurate forms, saved time. Result: saved time/Spent cash (ka chinge)/good rodsSo ask yourself, do you want to be A: or D: I'm sure no one wants to be B: or C:Personally A: looks the best to me:))I tie flies too, Too save money(NO WAY),too say I caught that trout = a fly I tied:)) Saving money is the Fringe benefit to me.But that's a matter of opinion and personal taste:)) www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Nov 16 09:24:15 2001 fAGFOFH20755 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:24:15 -0600 by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA20987; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:24:18 - ETAsAhQ/OWk1/8mFM4fyZ03A785RyjLiVgIUSOJyi4lHCLBpmmh75CgqzS8x79U= Subject: Re: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms 10:00:16 -0500 Bill - If you went to a steel service center and asked for "commercialquality cold drawn bar" you would get C-1018 chemistry. Cold drawn ispulled through a die. Cold rolled is a a sheet designation and isrolled on a mill with flat rolls. One of the things that happens withcold drawn is that it is full of stresses after being pulled thru a die.If you notice, with the expensive forms it is specified that they arestress relief annealed. One thing you don't want to do with a cold drawnbar is drop it on it's end or rap the end with a hammer. It's enough tomake the bar look like a snake. Regards, Jerry Young from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Nov 16 09:35:35 2001 fAGFZUH21517 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:35:30 -0600 by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id HAA27270; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:35:37 - ETAtAhUAnRl+UWf877pXQfk7N40VoQ8P78sCFFsXCEES2YBgG3m0wFtrGX3TMnwR Subject: Re: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms 10:00:16 -0500 OBTW - Key stock can be made from C-1018, a free machining grade 1215but the larger sizes are usually C- 1045. That is probably what you hadand it wouldn't surprize me that you had trouble drilling, tapping andfiling it. Jerry Young from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Fri Nov 16 10:00:43 2001 fAGG0gH22760 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:00:42 -0600 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:00:41 -0800 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:00:41 GMT Subject: David Norling, Matt Leiderman FILETIME=[D77AE2F0:01C16EB7] Fellas- I lost your email addys and I have tracking #'s for you. Thanks for the bandwidth.Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Fri Nov 16 10:11:44 2001 fAGGBhH23464 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:11:43 -0600 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms I agree with Harry, I built my forms. I did all drilling and tapping andmaking them level. I then brought them to a machinist for the groove. Itcost something like $180 for the machining of the forms and a set ofroughing forms. The hard part was finding someone with a machine with alarge enough table to make the cut. The shop I found had a 16' table!!Very cool machine.I recently got to use a set of "good", (read: bought), They were nice but Igot the same results from mine. But I prefer mine because they are made from 7/8" CRS as opposed to 3/4", I like the extra width. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequateforms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build a rod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms for saying that home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'll stand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not be as nice looking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of ourtime, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Those of you who saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shiny as any you will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making strips the same size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's fileplanes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Nov 16 10:17:53 2001 fAGGHrH24002 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:17:53 -0600 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 10:15:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms $0.02 more, primarily for the beginners that may be lurking. John's point is a fully valid point of view and Tony Miller subsequently summarized it and others very well. However, when I first thought I might like to do this I immediately recognized that the reality might be that I would get either bogged down between the details and my career work or build one rod and then lose interest or just recognize that I just don't have the time. Hence, I preferred to keep my financial investment down until I was sure I really liked doing this. That way, if I walked away from it the money wasted would not be excessive (OK, I'm a bit cheap, I admit it). The cost of the forms you quote is slightly less than I paid for everything to get going (forms, oven, heat gun, planes, binder, etc) because I made them myself and used a lot of cheap or free scavenged stuff. It all works very well. The most expensive item I have is a Lie Nielsen scraper that was a gift. The next most expensive is the heat gun. Certainly it is better to spend your time planing than scraping steel bars to make forms. However, its all craftsmanship and a pleasant way to spend some time decompressing and very gratifying when you get your finished product, either forms or rods. Making the forms also helps to teach the patience required to do this stuff. You have to take the long view to stick with it, I think. Even building the rods is not the kind of thing that a hobbyist can do in a hurry-up way. I never thought it relevant to look at it in the time=money way since for me this is a pleasant hobby that complements my fishing and outdoor interests. I don't work for money when I go home. If I were to make this equivalency based on my average hourly consulting fees, my forms alone would be worth $4500. Now, there is nothing wrong with just buying everything and for many folks this is the best solution. However, making the stuff, if you have the skills, is also quite gratifying (I'm not sure which made me more pleased, my finished forms or my first rod).Cheers.Jon McAnulty At 09:28 AM 11/16/2001 -0500, John Kenealy wrote: That would make my forms cost about $500 if I made them myself. I stillbelieve time better spent planing Maybe at some point, if I feel the urge to make them for the experience, Iwill make a set. In the meantime, I'm happy with my "store bought" set. That's my 2 cents worth. John K----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:10 AMSubject: Re: Planning (sic) forms I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequateforms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build a rod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms for saying that home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'll stand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not beas nice looking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of ourtime, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Thoseof you who saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shinyas any you will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making strips the same size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's fileplanes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Nov 16 10:26:33 2001 fAGGQWH24532 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:26:32 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 164lp5-00029H-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:26:35 -0500 Subject: Re: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms The hard to file steel is 1018. Softer and easier to file is 12L14 (akaEN1A ?). The place I bought mine knew it as 12L14.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms It took me weeks, no, months to build my forms, part time. Of course, ittakes me much longer to build a rod than the 40-60 hours most people on the list report, I'm just slow. The time draw filing and grooving was enormous, because the metal was so hard. Somebody recently mentioned a CRS alloy that wasn't as hard as the keystock I must have gotten. Does anybody remember the designation? I woulddefinitely recommend going with the more easily worked CRS. Bill At 08:10 AM 11/16/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequate forms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build a rod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms forsayingthat home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'll stand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not be as nicelooking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of our time, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Thoseof you who saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shinyas any you will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making strips the same size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's file planes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Nov 16 10:36:06 2001 fAGGa6H25279 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:36:06 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:25:31 -0600 Subject: RE: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms EN1A is getting increasingly difficult to find. It is a lead-based "freemachining steel" which has certain softness, and self lubricating qualitiesthat make it easy to work (by machine or hand). Because of the hazards oflead, this stock is not widely available anymore. If you do use it, takeproper precautions (i.e. - don't ever eat after working on the bars, or evenafter you use them to plane strips). Residue on your hands would find itsway into your system over the life of your forms. (Aside -- I stoppedcarrying split shot in my mouth a few years ago, too....) TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms The hard to file steel is 1018. Softer and easier to file is 12L14 (akaEN1A ?). The place I bought mine knew it as 12L14.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms It took me weeks, no, months to build my forms, part time. Of course, ittakes me much longer to build a rod than the 40-60 hours most people on the list report, I'm just slow. The time draw filing and grooving was enormous, because the metal was so hard. Somebody recently mentioned a CRS alloy that wasn't as hard as the keystock I must have gotten. Does anybody remember the designation? I woulddefinitely recommend going with the more easily worked CRS. Bill At 08:10 AM 11/16/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequate forms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build a rod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms forsayingthat home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'll stand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not be as nicelooking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of our time, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Thoseof you who saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shinyas any you will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making strips the same size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's file planes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from lblan@provide.net Fri Nov 16 10:42:07 2001 fAGGg1H25771 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:42:06 -0600 with HTTP id 4842683 for ; Fri, 16 Nov2001 11:42:09 -0500 Subject: Re: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms Back when I played purchasing manager, it was difficult tofind the leaded alloys in square or rectangular bar. It isstill quite common for round stock. It's worth the searchthough, it sure is easier to work. Larry Blan On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 10:34:19 -0600"Miller, Troy" wrote: EN1A is getting increasingly difficult to find. It is alead-based "freemachining steel" which has certain softness, and selflubricating qualitiesthat make it easy to work (by machine or hand). Becauseof the hazards oflead, this stock is not widely available anymore. If youdo use it, takeproper precautions (i.e. - don't ever eat after workingon the bars, or evenafter you use them to plane strips). Residue on yourhands would find itsway into your system over the life of your forms. (Aside-- I stoppedcarrying split shot in my mouth a few years ago, too....)TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:28 AM Subject: Re: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms The hard to file steel is 1018. Softer and easier tofile is 12L14 (akaEN1A ?). The place I bought mine knew it as 12L14.Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:00 AMSubject: CRS Alloy was: Planning (sic) forms It took me weeks, no, months to build my forms, part time. Of course, it takes me much longer to build a rod than the 40-60 hours most people onthe list report, I'm just slow. The time draw filing and grooving was enormous, because the metal was sohard. Somebody recently mentioned a CRS alloy that wasn't as hard as thekeystock I must have gotten. Does anybody remember the designation? I would definitely recommend going with the more easily worked CRS. Bill At 08:10 AM 11/16/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectlyadequate forms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes tobuild a rod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms for sayingthat home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. YetI'll stand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not beas nicelooking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just asfunctional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value ofour time, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but makingmicro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Those ofyou who saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shiny asany you will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly makingstrips the same size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal avixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider'sfile planes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to buildforms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church - from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 16 11:06:20 2001 fAGH6IH27412 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:06:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms Wooden forms work perfectly well and take about 1/2 day to make. Tony At 11:13 AM 11/16/01 -0500, Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: I agree with Harry, I built my forms. I did all drilling and tapping andmaking them level. I then brought them to a machinist for the groove. Itcost something like $180 for the machining of the forms and a set ofroughing forms. The hard part was finding someone with a machine with alarge enough table to make the cut. The shop I found had a 16' table!!Very cool machine.I recently got to use a set of "good", (read: bought), They were nice but Igot the same results from mine. But I prefer mine because they are made from 7/8" CRS as opposed to 3/4", I like the extra width. Tom ----- Original Message -----From: Harry Boyd Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:10 AMSubject: Re: Planning (sic) forms I've got to chime in here folks. I strongly disagree. Perfectly adequateforms can be built with hand tools in far less time than it takes to build a rod. I got in trouble once with one of the makers of high-end forms for saying that home-made forms are "just as good" as the high dollar forms. Yet I'll stand by that statement. They are just as functional. They may not beas nice looking, or as easy to use. But home-built forms can be just as functional. What's our time worth? Well, if we're trying to maximize the value of ourtime, then we ought not be building fishing poles, but making micro-chips. Last night I spent about 2 hours completely reworking my forms. Thoseof you who saw them at SRG know why! Right now they are as bright and shinyas any you will find. And they certainly are capable of repeatedly making strips the same size. That's all any forms should be asked to do. Buy a small drill press and a drill press vise. Beg, borrow or steal a vixen file. Get some high quality drill bits. Make one of Don Schneider's fileplanes. Get the best taps money can buy. You should be able to build forms from CRS in 20 hours or less, start to finish. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from OSEGAL@glcc.com Fri Nov 16 11:06:24 2001 fAGH6NH27416 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:06:23 -0600 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:06:03 -0500 Subject: COILED LINES Can anyone suggest how to straighten up, and keep them that way, fly lines=that have been for too long and without use on reel's spools? I tried =pulling and stretching and keeping them tight for a few hours, but didn't =work. I must confess that I was too frightened to use heat!! Thanks to all, Oscar Can anyone suggest how to straighten up, and keepthem = way, fly lines that have been for too long and without use on reel's = tried pulling and stretching and keeping them tight for a few hours, but = work. I must confess that I was too frightened to use heat!! Thanks to all, Oscar from anglport@con2.com Fri Nov 16 11:06:31 2001 fAGH6UH27458 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:06:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine I'm thinking if anyone has that copy, it'd be a great addition to Reed'ssite! Scan it to him and he can post it. I shouldn't think there'd be toomuch problem with a 40 year-old magazine's contents, huh?Art from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Fri Nov 16 11:10:46 2001 fAGHAjH28317 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:10:45 -0600 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:10:45 -0800 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:10:44 GMT Subject: Righteous Woods FILETIME=[A0E68550:01C16EC1] Anyone have any experience dealing with this company? Thanks _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from jeremy@goflyfishing.com Fri Nov 16 11:27:11 2001 fAGHRAH29303 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:27:10 -0600 helo=8hkx10b) id 164mlq-0006RL-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:27:18 -0500 Subject: RE: Splitting Thanks! I split another culm last night till midnight. I lost zero strips and got18 out of the butt and 24 out of the tip. Now I've got to tying soaking.If it works as well as the splitting method, I am going to be cutting thetime required to make a rod way down. I need to start trying more ideas from the list. Thanks again. Jeremy -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Splitting Thanks! A word of warning. You can certainly get carried away and split beautiful,regular strips that are actually too thin to plane; sounds a bit farfetched, I know, but it's true. Another thing that I find is that occasionally I find myself with one stripin a butt or tip set that is a lot wider than the other five, and I usedreally not look forward to all that extra planing Now I just split it downto where I want it which saves time both in the planing and in the bladesharpeningdepartment . It's a good technique. Peter from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Nov 16 11:33:58 2001 fAGHXuH29922 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:33:57 -0600 (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: COILED LINES understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3088751174_615838 Hi Oscar, Clean the lines (they probably need it, anyway) in hot (tap hot, notboiling), mild soapy water. Give =8Cem a good rub down with a soft dry clothand hang them up in loose loops for a while. If you can, loose coils (say =8to 10 inches in diameter) is the best way to store a line if you aren=B9tplanning to fish it for a while. However, this process lends itself to acertain amount of frustrating inertia when you are trying to get a quickstart to go fishing! Jason PS: Make sure to mark the proximal end when you take it off your reel (ifyou use a WF line) or you could mess up your cast. And, go slow when youre-wind the line, or you could get some major snarls. I usually string thething around my house, then follow it along as I reel it in. On 11/15/01 2:01 PM, "Oscar Segal" wrote: Can anyone suggest how to straighten up, and keep them that way, flyline= s that have been for too long and without use on reel's spools? I tried pul= ling and stretching and keeping them tight for a few hours, but didn't work. I= must confess that I was too frightened to use heat!! Thanks to all, Oscar --B_3088751174_615838 Re: COILED LINES Hi Oscar, Clean the lines (they probably need it, anyway) in hot (tap hot, not boilin= c= ils (say 8 to 10 inches in diameter) is the best way to store a line if you = nds itself to a certain amount of frustrating inertia when you are trying to=get a quick start to go fishing! Jason PS: Make sure to mark the proximal end when you take it off your reel (if y= yo= ng the thing around my house, then follow it along as I reel it in. wrote:= Cananyone suggest h=ow to straighten up, and keep them that way, fly lines that have been for to=o long and without use on reel's spools? I tried pulling and stretching and =keeping them tight for a few hours, but didn't work. I must confess that I w=as too frightened to use heat!! Thanks to all, Oscar --B_3088751174_615838-- from alspicer99@yahoo.com Fri Nov 16 11:47:12 2001 fAGHlBH00903 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:47:11 -0600 16 Nov 2001 09:47:19 PST Subject: List of 10 top tapers UPDATE All, Update: I have added more tapers to the list that were notincluded on the original for one reason or another. Ihave marked the new tapers with a **. Let's have some fun! I took all the responses to the 5to 10 top taper question and compiled a list inalphabetical order. How about we try to narrow downthe list some? If people would like to pick their topfive in order, (email me off the list) I will compilethe results and post them. Let's set a deadline of 11-21-01 to get yournominations to me and I'll post final tally afterThanksgiving. Please make sure you send your reply OFF THE LIST.Don't want to eat up space on the server or overburden the list members. Have a great day, Al SpicerGreensboro, NC ****** Updated Tapers as of 11-16-01 ******* A&F "Favorite" by Edwards 7'6" Cattanach 7' #4 (Sir D)Dickerson 6611Dickerson 7613Dickerson 7614Dickerson 8013Don Anderson's 7'9", 5 wt.F.E. Thomas (Ala Joe Perego)Gary Lacy 7ft 2 in **Garrison 193 **Garrison 202eGarrison 206eGarrison 212eGranger 7'Granger 7 1/2'Granger 8'Granger 8 1/2 ftGranger Aristocrat 8'6" W&M Granger 4 3/4 oz 9fHeddon FolsomHardy TourneyJohn Zimny 7 ft quad **Leonard 8 1/2ft to 9 1/2 ft tounament rods for a 4 or a 5Leonard 50 DFLeonard 38H **Leonard 39 DFLyon & Coulson Regent #123 9' 8 wt(Same as Heddon Peeerles).Montagues 8.5 a 9 ft **Orvis 5/9 UltralightPHY Driggs River SpecialPHY PerfectionistPHY Para15PHY JJPHY Martha MariePHY Midge **Payne 98Payne 101Payne 100HPayne 201Payne 204Pezon & Michel 6' MidgetPezon & Michel 7'7" ColorodoPezon & Michel Ritz Fario ClubSweetwater Delaware River Special **T&T 6' #3 CaenisThramer 444 without a ferrule **Thramer 7ft DX **Winston 8' #5 (San Fransisco) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Nov 16 12:28:03 2001 fAGIS2H02798 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:28:02 -0600 2001 -0500 2001 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:20:25 -0500 id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:16:38 -0500 Subject: Non rodmaking: airport security and carry on fly gear Has anyone done any flying lately and had trouble with carry-ons? I justheard some disconcerting stories (maybe it was b.s.). One guy supposedlyhadhis fly line on his reel removed and confiscated because "it could be usedto choke someone". There was another guy who almost had his rod and tubetaken away in one direction and then on the way back they didn't even lookin the tube to see what was in it. Also, what exactly does "confiscate" meanwhen you hear it on the news? Do you get it back? Can you back out andcheckit in? Sorry for the non-rm post. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 16 13:11:58 2001 fAGJBqH04589 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:11:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Non rodmaking: airport security and carry on fly gear It seems to depend on the guy in charge at the time even now. Around here in the Antipodes rods as carry on have mostly been a non no for years, the reason being both storage restrictions and the possible problems with guns. They know the rod tubes look like rod tubes but the fear is one day it may be a bit bigger than the average rod tube and isn't actually a rod tube.We got that when Reed, Reed's son Dan and I drove across the border into Canada. It seemed they were on the look out for any and all Aussies, especially bearded ones so the car was checked. The investigating officer found it a bit hard to believe all the rod tubes were full of rods so it's not just airline people who think that way.We were expecting the entrance back to the US to be at least as muchhassle as getting into Canada but I had a cunning plan, I was going to tell the immigration officer the two mad Iranians in the car with me kidnaped me figuring that would take the heat off me [:-)] Something I did find catching planes at the time of the last Greyling was the security could be frightening lax so being more heavy can only be a good thing. It's not funny now but it was at the time when I returned home my carry on baggage weighed maybe 40lbs full of machine tools. One thing in the bag looked a hell of a lot like a mortar round, some security checks went ballistic when they saw it in the xray, Denver even had a bright blue light and a siren go off and big bad guys with badges come running at me when security saw it.They checked the bag with my hands against the wall while they unpacked it. When they got to the "mortar round" I told them it was an end mill holder looking rubber gloved and having a jolly old time of it then found an end mill that fit it (as it should). The fit is so good it's air tight so when the bit is pushed into the holder it moves back out due to air pressure, that convinced them it was a weapon. I mean a projectile that looks like an end mill shot from an end mill holder would hurt if you could make it move fast enough.When the guy took the end mill out of it's holder he removed the plastic protective cover in a way I just knew he was going to cut him self. I went to say be careful and was told to be quiet, I watched him slice a huge gash on his thumb then he had the cheek to tell me I should have warned him. Before he was just doing his job, now he was pissed.Obviously it all turned out OK and I didn't have to share a small room with a big guy who called me sweet heart. HOWEVER the security from LA takingan international flight to Sydney didn't look twice at the same bag and contents. Tony At 01:16 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Has anyone done any flying lately and had trouble with carry-ons? I justheard some disconcerting stories (maybe it was b.s.). One guy supposedlyhad /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Nov 16 13:16:23 2001 fAGJGNH04959 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:16:23 -0600 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:16:27 -0500 Subject: Re:airport security Usually when something is confiscated you Can't get it back.Basically they take it from you for good. www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} back.Basically they take it from you for good. www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Nov 16 13:28:46 2001 fAGJSjH05695 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 13:28:45 -0600 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:28:53 PST Subject: Re: Non rodmaking: airport security and carry on fly gear There may be more frequent flyers out there, but I'll try. Ivechecked in at about twelve ariports since September 11th. I have not carried on any rods, so i can't help there. There are two classes of confiscation: If you have something like agun, it's going to be gone. If you have some reaonable personal itemthat just happens ti not be allowed under the new rules, they willkeep it and you can reclaim it on your way back home if you arecoming back. If it gets pulled mid-trip and you wont; be back, thatis a problem. You are allowed one reasonable size carry-on suitcase and onepurse/briefcase-type item. Lines are getting back to normal just about everywhere, so if youhave a problem at security, you probably would have time to go backand check - problem is if you checked luggage already, it's long gonein the system. I checked rod s and reels for SRG that I normally would have carriedon. I have seen rods going through DIA, though, so some folks arecarrying them. You need your ticket AND ID at check-in, at security and and forboarding. --- Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Has anyone done any flying lately and had trouble with carry-ons? Ijustheard some disconcerting stories (maybe it was b.s.). One guysupposedly hadhis fly line on his reel removed and confiscated because "it couldbe usedto choke someone". There was another guy who almost had his rod andtubetaken away in one direction and then on the way back they didn'teven lookin the tube to see what was in it. Also, what exactly does"confiscate" meanwhen you hear it on the news? Do you get it back? Can you back outand checkit in? Sorry for the non-rm post. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 16 14:10:01 2001 fAGKA0H07951 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:10:00 -0600 Nov 2001 12:10:08 PST Subject: Re:airport security airport security people like to fish too! --- Tony Miller wrote: Usually when something is confiscated you Can't getit back.Basically they take it from you for good.Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Nov 16 14:29:28 2001 fAGKTSH09372 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:29:28 -0600 id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:23:08 -0500 id V8NVM3JM; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:23:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Signing Rod Hey all! I'd like to bring this topic up again. Any comments? Harry Boyd wrote: Steve,I sign my rods in black India Ink as follows: Harry Boyd, Jr. Maker3901-WC 93-4The numbers mean: (3901) I am 39 years old (really!), and this is the firstrod I built this year.(WC 93-4) Wayne Cattanach taper, 93" 4 weight.Also, a local jeweler engraves the butt caps with Harry Boyd Maker inthree lines. ( I tie flies for him and he doesn't charge me. Can't beatthat deal!) Hope this gives you an idea. Let us know what you come up with. Whoknows,you may even develop some sort of standardHarry Steve Trauthwein wrote: >snip My question is what do others use as a signature, that is of course besidesmy name. Rod #1, or some secret code to check back to a log thatdescribesthe rod? W.C. Taper? -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from alan.grombacher@pioneer.com Fri Nov 16 15:25:25 2001 Received: fAGLPPH11999 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16 Nov 2001 16:24:53 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with InternetMail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:24:43 -0600 Message-Id: "'avyoung@iinet.net.au'" , Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Non rodmaking: airport securityand carry on fly gear Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:24:41 -0600 X-Mailer: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hey Folks, I just got back from Ontario. Flew Air Canada. > from what I saw, it is better to not carry onany fly tying tools or vises. They will take them, and put them with the 300swiss army knives that I saw in a box at the Edmonton airport. I saw eyeglass screw drivers confiscated. Rods tubes probably won't be allowed ascarry on. My solution is a hockey bag. Big enough to pack my 3 piece rod andcarry all my assorted stuff with plenty of room left over. I think the days ofcarrying on anything are over. Cheers, Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Non rodmaking: airport security and carry on fly gear It seemsto depend on the guy in charge at the time even now. Around here in theAntipodes rods as carry on have mostly been a non no for years, the reasonbeing both storage restrictions and the possible problems with guns. Theyknow the rod tubes look like rod tubes but the fear is one day it may be a bitbigger than the average rod tube and isn't actually a rod tube. We got thatwhen Reed, Reed's son Dan and I drove across the border into Canada. Itseemed they were on the look out for any and all Aussies, especially beardedones so the car was checked. The investigating officer found it a bit hard tobelieve all the rod tubes were full of rods so it's not just airline people whothink that way. We were expecting the entrance back to the US to be atleast as much hassle as getting into Canada but I had a cunning plan, I wasgoing to tell the immigration officer the two mad Iranians in the car with mekidnaped me figuring that would take the heat off me [:-)] Something I didfind catching planes at the time of the last Greyling was the security couldbe frightening lax so being more heavy can only be a good thing. It's notfunny now but it was at the time when I returned home my carry on baggageweighed maybe 40lbs full of machine tools. One thing in the bag looked a hellof a lot like a mortar round, some security checks went ballistic when theysaw it in the xray, Denver even had a bright blue light and a siren go off andbig bad guys with badges come running at me when security saw it. Theychecked the bag with my hands against the wall while they unpacked it. Whenthey got to the "mortar round" I told them it was an end mill holder for alathe. They looked at me like I was a speck of phlegm and kept looking rubbergloved and having a jolly old time of it then found an end mill that fit it (as itshould). The fit is so good it's air tight so when the bit is pushed into theholder it moves back out due to air pressure, that convinced them it was aweapon. I mean a projectile that looks like an end mill shot from an end millholder would hurt if you could make it move fast enough. When the guy tookthe end mill out of it's holder he removed the plastic protective cover in away I just knew he was going to cut him self. I went to say be careful and wastold to be quiet, I watched him slice a huge gash on his thumb then he had thecheek to tell me I should have warned him. Before he was just doing his job,now he was pissed. Obviously it all turned out OK and I didn't have to share asmall room with a big guy who called me sweet heart. HOWEVER the security from LA taking an international flight to Sydney didn't look twice at the samebag and contents. Tony At 01:16 PM 11/16/01 - 0500,Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Has anyone done any flying lately and had trouble with carry-ons? I justheard some disconcerting stories (maybe it was b.s.). One guy supposedly had /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 16 15:47:44 2001 fAGLlhH13187 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:47:43 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 rod Subject: Re: Non rodmaking: airport security and carry on fly gear All, I would like to make it clear that the Canadian Customs officials were quite comfortable with us entering Canada...until they learned that Tony was an Aussie. What can I say? You have to have some standards, no matter how low they may seem. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ We got that when Reed, Reed's son Dan and I drove across the border into Canada. It seemed they were on the look out for any and all Aussies, especially bearded ones so the car was checked. The investigating officer found it a bit hard to believe all the rod tubes were full of rods so it's not just airline people who think that way. -- > from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 16 16:25:33 2001 Received: from ida.net Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:23:36 -0700 From:"Ralph W. Moon" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN One of the real problems ofgetting old is the disinclination to try new tricks. What was good enough 30years ago is still good enough, NOT! Darrell, mentioned some time ago that heused a jack plane for rough planing. I paid little attention to it until not longago, I found an old rusty jack plane at a yard sale and bought it. I spent abunch of time getting rid of the rust, redoing the wooden parts, flatteningthe bottom and adjusting it for a cut. It is fantastic!!! Itt removes canerapidly, but under perfect control; using it takes far less effort, and iskinder to the hands and shoulders. , but most of all it will save me hours ofwork. Thank you Sir D. As far as I am concerned you deserve anotherchevron on your banner. Now I wonder about this soaking bit Ralph-- WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov fAGMm4H16655 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:45:30 -0600 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] ttalsma@macatawa.org CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re:Signing Rod References: Content-Type: text/plain; fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Todd,That was from four years ago. Have you been reading the archives again??Oh, to be 39 again and know what I know now! Harry Todd Talsma wrote: Hey all! I'd like to bring this topic up again. Any comments? Harry Boyd wrote: Harry Boyd, Jr. Maker3901-WC 93-4The numbers mean: (3901) I am 39 years old (really!) --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jourdoktorn@chello.se Fri Nov 16 16:56:17 2001 fAGMuGH17189 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:56:16 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 licensed2583c0617b67bae473a44216fd3d32d) Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:56:15 +0100 Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine Hi Steve, I own the complete collection of Fly Fisherman magazines. The first year was1969. I have looked through all issues for volume 1 but there is no RodBuilder issue that year! Sorry. Regards, Jan Steve Trauthwein wrote: Hello All, Does anyone have a copy of the Rod Builder issue of Fly FishermanMagazine? It was published in the first year of the mags existence. Ijust met a gentleman (very interesting, and opinionated) that was afeatured builder from the era. I would like to get a copy of the text ifanyone has it. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Fri Nov 16 17:47:19 2001 fAGNlIH18966 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:47:18 -0600 16 Nov 2001 15:47:25 PST Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine I'll have to second that. I was unable to find theissue you mention as well. You can view a list ofarticles at http://www.artistree.com/SplitCaneLibrary/ Regards,Chris --- Jan Nystråm wrote: Hi Steve, I own the complete collection of Fly Fishermanmagazines. The first year was1969. I have looked through all issues for volume 1but there is no RodBuilder issue that year! Sorry. Regards, Jan Steve Trauthwein wrote: Hello All, Does anyone have a copy of the Rod Builder issue of Fly Fisherman Magazine? It was published in the first year of the mags existence. I just met a gentleman (very interesting, and opinionated) that was a featured builder from the era. I would like to get a copy of the text if anyone has it. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 16 17:47:54 2001 fAGNlmH19019 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:47:53 -0600 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:47:52 - Subject: Re: Sir D The Stanley No. 3 size is my bench plane of choice. Pick an old one up on ebay. You should be able to get one for under $50.00. There seems to be a marked difference in the blade steel on the ones made around 1932. Theblades got worse after that year. If you are going to get a Hock replacement blade then get a plane made before 1964. They got real cheap after that. I almost always try things out before I post them. If I haven't tried it myself, I'll say so in the post. Hopefully I know enough enough about rodmaking by now to give a valid analysis of the results, good or bad. Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/16/01 2:26:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.net writes: One of the real problems of getting old is the disinclination to try new tricks. What was good enough 30 years ago is still good enough, NOT! Darrell, mentioned some time ago that he used a jack plane for rough planing. I paid little attention to it until not long ago, I found an old rusty jack plane at a yard sale and bought it. I spent a bunch of time getting rid of the rust, redoing the wooden parts, flattening the bottom and adjusting it for a cut. It is fantastic!!! Itt removes cane rapidly, but under perfect control; using it takes far less effort, and is kinder to the hands and shoulders. , but most of all it will save me hours of work. Thank you Sir D. As far as I am concerned you deserve another chevron on your banner. Now I wonder about this soaking bit Ralph TheStanley No. 3 size is my bench plane of choice. Pick an old one up on ebay.You should be able to get one for under $50.00. There seems to be a markeddifference in the blade steel on the ones made around 1932. The blades gotworse after that year. If you are going to get a Hock replacement blade thenget a plane made before 1964. They got real cheap after that. I almost always try things out before I post them. If I haven't tried it myself,I'll say so in the post. Hopefully I know enough enough about rodmaking bynow to give a valid analysis of the results, good or bad. Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/16/01 2:26:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.net writes:One of the real problemsof getting old is the disinclination to try new Darrell, mentioned some time ago that he used a jack plane for rough time getting rid of the rust, redoing the wooden parts, flattening the cane bit Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 16 18:26:50 2001 fAH0QnH20401 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:26:49 -0600 0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2)Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine but I Ralph Jan Nyström wrote: Hi Steve,I own the complete collection of FlyFisherman magazines. The first year was1969. I have looked through allissues for volume 1 but there is no RodBuilder issue that year!Sorry.Regards, JanSteve Trauthweinwrote: Hello All,Does anyone have a copy of the Rod Builderissue of Fly FishermanMagazine? It was published in the first year of themags existence. Ijust met a gentleman (very interesting, andopinionated) that was afeatured builder from the era. I would like to geta copy of the text ifanyone has it. TIA.Regards,SteveIndependence, MO . -- WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 16 18:51:44 2001 fAH0phH21020 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:51:43 -0600 0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2)Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 Subject: Re: Sir D Tony Spezio wrote: Ralph,Try soaking you will never go back to dry planing, nodes and straightening.Try a strip at 24 hours, 36 hours and 48 hours, do your nodes andstraightening wet..Then try a strip at three days and 4 days.I bet I know how long you will soak after that. All right Tony, You are confusing this old man. How do you nodes andstraighten a wet strip.. Steam? Heat Gun? alcohol burner? Secondly let mein one the secret. 24 hours or 96 hours. I guess I never paid any attentionto the threads on wet strips, because I was brought up to think that waterwas an anathema in rod building. Ralph -- WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov16 19:02:38 2001 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_gc_dev1.2.) id g.d6.ec09097 (4398); Fri, 16 Nov Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:02:32 EST 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- collection if anyone is interested. OK flame me for commercialism (:-). Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) -- Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Nov 16 19:19:21 2001 Received: from fAH1JKH21874 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:15:25 -0400 Message- 21:23:02 -0500 From: Shawn Pineo Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods X- Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X- Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms References: Content-Type: text/plain; nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN MAKEYER OWN FORMS, IT BUILDS CHARACTER!!! Besides if you can make it thruthat cutting strips of bamboo will be a breeze! Not to mention down the roadif you decide bamboo is not for you (like that would happen??) you're not out$350 to $800. If you aren't happy with them and like building you can alwaysmake another set or buy a set later, JMTCW(Just my two cents worth),Shawn > from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 16 19:26:40 2001 Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:26:30 +0000 Message-ID:Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:27:33 -0800 From: Steve Trauthwein X-Mailer: Mozilla Moon" CC: Rodmakers Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine References: Content- saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENRalph, I was going on the memory, obviously faulty, of the gentleman that Ihad met. Hal Bacon responded that the magazine mentioned the majorbuilders and had an article about Garrison. I really don't know where it is inpublishing. I thought the early 70's Regards, Steve "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: I checked all of volumn 2. and found nothing. I do have an index,but I couldn't find it this afternoon. I will keep looking from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 16 19:35:18 2001 fAH1ZHH22583 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:35:17 -0600 ;Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:35:15 +0000 Subject: Re: Signing Rod Todd, Steve Trauthwein~Maker7042 01-1 323 This is an example of how I sign my rods now. I used to attribute thetaper with the builders name on the rod. After reading that this couldbe construed as a marketing devise I no longer do this. This rod is a 7'4wt 2pc. The first built in 2001 to a taper of Wayne Cattanach's. Regards, Steve PS Name and Maker is in script. from frank.haran@sympatico.ca Fri Nov 16 20:13:53 2001 fAH2DrH23241 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:13:53 -0600 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:13:51 -0500 Subject: RE: Planning (sic) forms Hi All, Thanks to everyone who chimed in on the planing forms thread. Jonathan putmy reasons for building my own forms very well. I would add to this thoughthat my philosophy with all my fishing related activities is to buy or makestuff that will do the job, and I don't believe that I have to shell outlots of money to do it, and never have I had to buy 'top of the line'. Thefish don't seem to mind that I use middle of the road (cost wise) equipment.I have gotten everything I require to build my own forms for about $80Canadian (as opposed to $450 Canadian). Granted I have borrowed a lot ofthe equipment from my employer who lets me use their work shop on my owntime, we also have a number of suppliers who like to give me 'samples', andI do not charge my time to my hobby account. Harry could you please enlighten me to what a Vixen file is and where I canget one? Thomas's Penrose's site call for a Mill Bastard file so I borrowedone of those. What are the advantages of a Vixen file over a Mill Bastardfile. Harry Boyd Wrote: Beg, borrow or steal a vixen -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Nov 16 20:43:47 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAH2hkH23878 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:43:46 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:43:50 -0600 Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question I just learned recently to spey cast and Don is right, it's a great optionand it works for any length rod - obviously you can handle more line with a14' rod than a 7' rod, but it works to the roll-casting limit of whateverrod you're using. And all spey casting really does is give you a way to getthe line back into position to roll cast after it has floated downstream from the previous cast, so it helps in most any situation where you have toroll cast in moving water. I learned it from the Derek Brown Spey CastingMaster Class video tape, which is also great for driving my wife nuts. Shecan't believe I sit there watching this guy casting and droning on in athick brogue. Next I'm going to get a manly skirt to wear while watchinghim..... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question Steve,Here in the rivers of the NW more often than not. With 60+ ft in front and10 ft or less behind and no way to get closer you either do a roll cast, asingle or double spey cast. Actually a spey cast with a single handed rod isa good tool to have in your bag of tricks, try it some time.Don Timothy Troester wrote: Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than30' of line plus leader? from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Nov 16 20:43:49 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAH2hnH23883 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:43:49 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:43:53 -0600 Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question You make a good point, I've only had one TT line, a 7wt, but it was great front taper on these lines is a lot longer than the head sections of WFlines. I ought to try one on a lighter bamboo rod....BK -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question The Wulff TT lines and the Airflow Deltas roll cast better for me than anyother line I've tried. -Doug At 02:48 PM 11/15/2001 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: Barry wrote: The lads don't use DT's anymore? Don't they need to roll cast? I've neverunderstood the value of WF lines except for beginners (not that I accuseyour lads of that) or situations where long casts are all that matters. Man, how often do you need to roll cast further than 30' of line plus leader? For the fly lines I've purchased, the first 30' of a DT and WF lineare exactly the same taper. --Steve from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Nov 16 20:43:50 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAH2hnH23885 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:43:49 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:43:53 -0600 Subject: RE: line question Adam, even on a 30' or 40' wide stream, when the brown trout are hangingunder the opposite bank, I sometimes want to get a nymph far enoughupstreamto sink before reaching the trout. That can require an up and across cast of50 feet or so. By the time the trout takes (which does happen to me now andthen) he's not 50 or 60 feet away. On larger Western rivers, I sometimesneed to make a similar cast, not to the opposite bank but upstream andacross into riffles with nice rocks here and there. Again, whether withfloating or sinking flies, the actual take isn't usually 60 feet away. Andtrees or cliffs sometimes grow right where I'd need to back cast. You're aluckier man than me if this never happens to you. What I described was having 60 feet of water in front of me, not a 60 footcast. So your comment about 80 feet is about 30 feet too long with the kindof leader you mentioned. Of course I'd use a shorter one for nymphing. Ihave 8.5' bamboo rods that can roll cast this far with no problem. Finally, your message below is a sneering and sarcastic slur. I'm not goingto respond in kind but it's not very pleasant reading. You make a lot ofinteresting contributions to the list without resorting to this. Perhaps itwas one of those times when one hits the send button too quickly. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: line question All this talk on DT and WF and roll casting 60ft well...I have been doingthis for quite awhile and while casting is fun Consistently setting hooks onpurpose at 60ft is well very impressive. I was not aware there were so manyspey casters on the list using 12ft rods. Casting 60ft of line is a goodacomplishment for a trout rod and in the rods length 7'-8.5' and a 10 footleader with 2 feet of tippet you are getting out there a possible 80' andstill setting the hook with a drag free drift...well done. Were I fish trout are kind enough to locate themselves within 40' and thereare usually many of his friends closer then that. Adam Vigil from tfbinn@mindspring.com Fri Nov 16 20:52:48 2001 fAH2qlH24719 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:52:47 -0600 helo=7yjg501) id 164vbA-0004OY-00; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:52:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine I think the article you're referring to was during the 80's. I remember anarticle about rod builders during that period because Leon Hanson was one ofthe builders mentioned and I didn't meet Leon until 1983.Winston from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 16 21:18:56 2001 fAH3ItH25684 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:18:56 -0600 helo=default) id 164w0U-0000HW-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:19:02 -0500 Subject: Fw: PU Glue The main issue with acetone is its flamability. It has a flash point of 0ŸF,which essentially means that no matter the temperature it is giving offvapors subject to ignition. It, like ether, will crawl for some distanceuntil it finds a source of ignition, then BOOM, though it is not heavy likeether. If used in confined areas the breathing of vapors will causedizziness. You'd have to drink the alcohol for that. It does cause minorirritation to the skin with sustained use, as it dries out the skin. Getsome in your eye and you will know you've done something. It's great fordisenfecting cuts in the shop. You may recognize the sting as the same withmethyolate (or is it mercurochrome?) and Tincture of Iodine. Acetone is thecarrier for both. As with any organic solvent, care should be taken with itsuse. M-D Isn't alcohol a lot safer? I believe acetone is considered relativelydangerous as solvents go...Barry I notice that Danny uses acetone. Never tried that as alcohol is easier forme, but Danny wouldn't recommend it if it didn't work. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Nov 16 22:01:36 2001 fAH41ZH26497 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:01:35 -0600 helo=g2t8c9) id 164wfm-0004Ge-00; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:01:42 -0800 Subject: Re: line question You only hurt the ones you love! And I love you guys...I really do. But notin a gay way. Adam Vigil...oops! I think I pushed the send button to quickly again ------------------------------------------------------------------ Finally, your message below is a sneering and sarcastic slur. I'm not goingto respond in kind but it's not very pleasant reading. You make a lot ofinteresting contributions to the list without resorting to this. Perhaps itwas one of those times when one hits the send button too quickly.Barry----- ---------------------------------------------------------------- All this talk on DT and WF and roll casting 60ft well...I have been doingthis for quite awhile and while casting is fun Consistently setting hooks onpurpose at 60ft is well very impressive. I was not aware there were so manyspey casters on the list using 12ft rods. Casting 60ft of line is a goodacomplishment for a trout rod and in the rods length 7'-8.5' and a 10 footleader with 2 feet of tippet you are getting out there a possible 80' andstill setting the hook with a drag free drift...well done. Were I fish trout are kind enough to locate themselves within 40' and thereare usually many of his friends closer then that. Adam Vigil from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 16 22:06:02 2001 fAH461H26756 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:06:01 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:05:41 -0800 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms --------------99B7F09040F93D8587C02B15 Frank and Faith wrote: Harry could you please enlighten me to what a Vixen file is and where I canget one? Thomas's Penrose's site call for a Mill Bastard file so I borrowedone of those. What are the advantages of a Vixen file over a Mill Bastardfile. Frank, (and Wayne) A vixen file is sometimes known as an auto body file. Back in the dayswhenauto body work was done by hand, in other words before power sanders werederigeur, these very aggressive files were used to remove excess material. Ifmyascii art works, a vixen file basically looks like this:__________________---(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( The teeth are very sharp and cut aggessively, removing as much as athousandth or two of metal on each pass down your forms. This file is oneofthe keys to making forms in a short time. You should be able to do all thefiling on one side of your forms in an hour and a half at most. In my mind,this beats the heck out of hour after hour of draw filing. I drilled and countersunk a hole in the tang of the file, and attached anoak handle. The file I use is 14" long. One hand goes on the handle, the otheron the file itself. Holding the file just slightly skewed from parallel to thebars of your planing form, make a pass, then shift the file. Make anotherpass,and shift the file. This technique for filing is described well in Wayne'sbook. You'll need to brush the bars clean after about two passes. Metalcomesoff in a BIG hurry, so use caution. When the entire surface of the two barsshows a bright surface, you're through with that side. Turn the two finishedsides together for use as the inner surfaces of your forms. Several list members have mentioned finding Vixen files at Grizzly Importsat a reasonable price. **Perhaps someone will chime in with a part number??** Igot mine from a former list-member (Davy Riggs -- anyone remember him?). Heworked for Boeing, and I think he bought them surplus from their shop, orelsecarried them out in his lunchbox. [:-)] He sent it to me, no cost. Next drill and tap the forms. Use the correct size drill -- most people donot. You should use a drill identified with either a letter or a number toprepare for tapping a fractional sized hole. For instance, use a size Z drillwith a 9/16-16 tap (I don't know the right combo's off hand). But you don'tdrill with a 1/4" bit for a 5/16" tapped thread unless you want blisters andbroken taps.Buy a good tap. Spend $15 or more on your tap and its handle, and it willsave you many, many hours of work. Use plenty of cutting fluid. Use either feeler gauges or your dial calipers to set the formsconsistentlywider at each station, following Tom Penrose's directions carefully. Then usethe 60* lathe tool described in Bruce Conner's FAQ to do the majority of thegroove cutting. The bit costs about $2, and I made the holder from scrapwoodand two set screws. Total cost, $3. One tip, do the tip side of your formsfirst, so that when (not if) you screw up and go too deep, you can use themessed up tip side for the butt side. Once you get close, switch to atriangular file glued to a block of wood, or even better, one of DonSchneider'sFile Planes (described in the current Power Fibers e-zine). CRS 12' -- $13Dowel pins -- $5Shoulder bolts and set screws -- $15Vixen file -- $0Drill press -- borrowed3" Drill press vice --$13 at SearsTap -- $15File plane -- Giftlathe tool -- $3 Total cost on forms tools and materials $61, plus labor I've got a vixen file, a 60* cutter, and a File plane that I'll be glad toloan to anyone for a week or two. Just promise to return them as soon asyouare through. I don't think there is a single idea described above that is original withme. And I've borrowed from half a dozen sources to develop this technique. Allof them have come through this list over the last 5 years. So my thanks toallthose I've borrowed from. Got carried away in this reply, sorry,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------99B7F09040F93D8587C02B15 Frank and Faith wrote:Harry could you please enlighten me to what a Vixenfile is and where I can so I borrowed Mill Bastardfile.Frank, (and Wayne) Back in the days when auto body work was done by hand, in other wordsbeforepower sanders were de rigeur, these very aggressive files were used to looks like this: ---(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( removingas much as a thousandth or two of metal on each pass down your should be able to do all the filing on one side of your forms in an hour hour of draw filing. the file just slightly skewed from parallel to the bars of your planing surface Turn the two finished sides together for use as the inner surfaces of yourforms. files at Grizzly Imports at a reasonable price. **Perhaps someone willchime in with a part number?? ** I got mine from a former list-member(Davy he bought them surplus from their shop, or else carried them out in his size drill -- most people do not. You should use a drill identified witheither a letter or a number to prepare for tapping a fractional sized tapped thread unless you want blisters and broken taps. Use plenty of cutting fluid. set the forms consistently wider at each station, following Tom Penrose's that when (not if) you screw up and go too deep, you can use the to a triangular file glued to a block of wood, or even better, one of DonSchneider's File Planes (described in the current Power Fibers e-zine).CRS 12' -- $13Dowel pins -- $5Shoulder bolts and set screws -- $15Vixen file -- $0Drill press -- borrowed3" Drill press vice --$13 at SearsTap -- $15File plane -- Giftlathe tool -- $3 labor to return them as soon as you are through. Got carried away in this reply, sorry,Harry -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------99B7F09040F93D8587C02B15-- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Nov 16 22:17:56 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAH4HuH27269 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:17:56 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:17:58 -0600 Subject: RE: line question Thanks for the clarification. I love this list, too. Is this about bamboo? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: line question You only hurt the ones you love! And I love you guys...I really do. But notin a gay way. Adam Vigil...oops! I think I pushed the send button to quickly again ------------------------------------------------------------------ Finally, your message below is a sneering and sarcastic slur. I'm not goingto respond in kind but it's not very pleasant reading. You make a lot ofinteresting contributions to the list without resorting to this. Perhaps itwas one of those times when one hits the send button too quickly.Barry----- ---------------------------------------------------------------- All this talk on DT and WF and roll casting 60ft well...I have been doingthis for quite awhile and while casting is fun Consistently setting hooks onpurpose at 60ft is well very impressive. I was not aware there were so manyspey casters on the list using 12ft rods. Casting 60ft of line is a goodacomplishment for a trout rod and in the rods length 7'-8.5' and a 10 footleader with 2 feet of tippet you are getting out there a possible 80' andstill setting the hook with a drag free drift...well done. Were I fish trout are kind enough to locate themselves within 40' and thereare usually many of his friends closer then that. Adam Vigil from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Nov 16 22:47:14 2001 fAH4lDH27964 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:47:14 -0600 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:47:19 - Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms This is the only place I could find a vixen file: http://www.cleavelandtool.com/catalog/shaping.html#Files I took some advice from the archives and glued the file to a 1" X 2" block of fir with epoxy. I did the same with a mill bastard file. The vixen is much much faster than the mill bastard file. Took me about an hour to file the inside face of the forms. I also found that the WC method of using the file almost parallel, and alternating sides after each stroke, to be much easier than using the file perpendicular to the steel as displayed on Thomas Penrose's excellent site. The vixen does take off alot of metal, but for some reason the teeth do not fill up as fast as compared to a mill file. Seems like the curvature of the teeth are effective in pushing the filings to the sides - meaning you do not have to clean file as often. I would appreciate any other advice that anyone would care to pass along regarding the construction of steel forms. I am at the point now where I am ready to drill the forms. Thanks, Kyle In a message dated 11/16/2001 6:14:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, frank.haran@sympatico.ca writes: Hi All,Thanks to everyone who chimed in on the planing forms thread. Jonathanputmy reasons for building my own forms very well. I would add to this thoughthat my philosophy with all my fishing related activities is to buy or makestuff that will do the job, and I don't believe that I have to shell outlots of money to do it, and never have I had to buy 'top of the line'. Thefish don't seem to mind that I use middle of the road (cost wise) equipment. I have gotten everything I require to build my own forms for about $80Canadian (as opposed to $450 Canadian). Granted I have borrowed a lot ofthe equipment from my employer who lets me use their work shop on myowntime, we also have a number of suppliers who like to give me 'samples', andI do not charge my time to my hobby account.Harry could you please enlighten me to what a Vixen file is and where Icanget one? Thomas's Penrose's site call for a Mill Bastard file so I borrowed one of those. What are the advantages of a Vixen file over a Mill Bastardfile.Harry Boyd Wrote:Beg, borrow or steal a vixen---- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church ------------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return- Path: Received: from rly-xb02.mx.aol.com (rly-xb02.mail.aol.com Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:14:50 -0500 rly- Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:14:30 -0500 fAH2EGH23279; Received: from tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts11.bellnexxia.net[209.226. fAH2DrH23241 srv.bellnexxia.net ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:13:51 -0500From: "Frank and Faith" Subject: RE: Planning (sic) formsDate: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:57:26 - 0500Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)Importance: Normal Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 16 22:56:00 2001 fAH4txH28286 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:55:59 -0600 helo=default) id 164xWQ-0006kH-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:56:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms I've seen vixen files with holes in each end whereby they are attached withflathead screws to a wooden handle that spans the length of the file. Notsure, but NAPA may carry these, as they used to do so. This is where webought them years ago when I was racing jet boats. We used them to shapethealuminum motor mounts, and on the fiberglass. M-D This is the only place I could find a vixen file: http://www.cleavelandtool.com/catalog/shaping.html#Files from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Fri Nov 16 23:04:55 2001 fAH54tH28656 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:04:55 -0600 Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:04:07 -0500 "Wayne Kifer" Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms (vixen file) I brought out my J and L catalog and looked up the files. One of the =problems is that the name Vixen seems to be a trade name of Simonds =files. Nicholson also sells a file with curved teeth. Both makers =refer to them as flat files or flat utility files and nicholson also has =a flat babbit with curved teeth. Prices run $20 to $40. I did a search at www.jandlindustrial.com using the words flat curved = Grizzly seems to refer to it as a Mill Curved File. =http://grizzly.com/fcgi- G7792 There seems to be some variation between the different models even =though they are all curved tooth. That may account for why it took me a =month and a half to do what Harry says only takes an hour and a half. Tim Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:03 PMSubject: Re: Planning (sic) forms A vixen file is sometimes known as an auto body file. Back in the =days when auto body work was done by hand, in other words before power =sanders were de rigeur, these very aggressive files were used to remove =excess material. If my ascii art works, a vixen file basically looks = I brought out my J and L catalog and = Both makers refer to them as flat files or flat utility files and = $40. I did a search at www.jandlindustrial.com = Grizzly seems to refer to it as a Mill = bin/lookup.fcgi/products/look= There seems to be some variation = and a half. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Harry= and Faith Cc: Rodmakers ; Wayne = Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Planning (sic) =forms words before power sanders were de rigeur, these very aggressive files = ---(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( = from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 16 23:11:10 2001 fAH5B4H28965 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:11:09 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:10:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms (vixen file) --------------37A85D9F3020EBF2B6A45B83 Tim, Thanks for posting the sources. Did you takea look at my file at SRG? That's the one I alwaysuse, and it really does work well. Resurfacing myforms last night only took a few minutes, and alittle elbow grease. Are the files you have used as aggressive asthe one I had at SRG? Harry Tim Wilhelm wrote: There seems to be some variation between thedifferent models even though they are all curvedtooth. That may account for why it took me amonth and a half to do what Harry says onlytakes an hour and a half. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------37A85D9F3020EBF2B6A45B83 Tim, minutes,and a little elbow grease. one I had at SRG? Tim Wilhelm wrote:There seems tobesome variation between the different models even though they are all curved do what Harry says only takes an hour and ahalf.-- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------37A85D9F3020EBF2B6A45B83-- from darrell@vFish.net Fri Nov 16 23:43:31 2001 fAH5hUH00067 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:43:30 -0600 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:43:36 -0600 Subject: RE: Fly fishing fair Is it that time of year already? I forgot all about it... Wanna do lunch atthe greasy spoon on Sat or Sunday? Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Fly fishing fair Any one attending the Bob Marriotts Fly Fishing fair this weekend? Adam from jandrvariant@hotmail.com Fri Nov 16 23:45:41 2001 fAH5jfH00298 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:45:41 -0600 Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:45:40 -0800 Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:45:40 GMT Subject: Discribe these rod actions FILETIME=[17189B50:01C16F2B] I need help choosing the taper of my new rod. I want a 7' for a four.It is impossible for me to cast them all, your input will be appreciated. Are these tapers fast, slow, stiff butted, soft tip? Please try to be objective--- ThanksGarrison 201Dickerson 7012Payne 97,98 and 7'1"Winston 7042Leonard 38Or anything else you can think of _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from homes-sold@home.com Sat Nov 17 01:28:18 2001 fAH7SIH01816 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:28:18 - femail35.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:28:22 -0800 Subject: Re: Line Wt. Question Barry,If you eally want a kick, try a Reo 6wt "Wind-Cutter" Spey line on a 8ftsingle-handed rod. You can almost hear the Bag Pipes in the distance. Yourfly also spends more time in the water, where the fish are, than in thebrush on your back casr. :>)Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question I just learned recently to spey cast from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Sat Nov 17 01:36:46 2001 fAH7ajH02154 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:36:45 - 16 Nov 2001 23:36:41 PST Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine Steve,There is one issue that would qualify as a "RodBuilders " issue and that is: Fly Fisherman, vol.5, no.3, Spring 1974 This issue includes "The Garrison Rod", by Hoagy B.Carmichael which is followed by "The BambooRenaissance" by Don Zahner. Don's article coversLeonard, Orvis, Payne, Powell, Sisty, T&T, Winston, PHYoung, Howells and Uslan. Lots of photos including avery nice 2 page color montage of these makers rods. Regards,Chris I was going on the memory, obviously faulty, of thegentleman that I hadmet. Hal Bacon responded that the magazine mentionedthe major buildersand had an article about Garrison. I really don'tknow where it is inpublishing. I thought the early 70's Regards, Steve __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Nov 17 03:00:26 2001 fAH90OH03112 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 03:00:24 - fAH90DE28247 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:00:13 Subject: planing forms There is, of course, a third path, apart from the obvious "buy it or buildit" one. You can find a machinist, probably "interesting and opinionated", whodoesn't have enough to do with his time, and you can get him to make you aset of fairly (make that 'very') substandard forms, which you can then spendmore time RE-finishing than you would have spent making them fromscratch. This is the option I selected. Who can guess whether I'd do it again? Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Nov 17 03:08:22 2001 fAH98KH03386 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 03:08:20 - fAH98PU28730 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:08:26 Subject: Pinning ferrules Hello, Brad I am fascinated here. Did you start pinning ferrules on a whim, or did you find it necessary. I use a lot of Garrison-style cap and ring reel seats, and while I have yetto encounter a problem, I often look at the whole setup pretty critically;and feel that I ought at least pin the cap. Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 17 03:10:51 2001 fAH9AnH03615 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 03:10:49 - Subject: Re: Non rodmaking: airport security and carry on fly gear You are right there. He had a pretty happy disposition until you mentioned me, he sort of went all dark and nasty looking then. My initial thought was his girl friend must have run off with an Aussie [:-)] Happily no sign of rubber gloves though. Tony At 04:48 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Reed Curry wrote: All,I would like to make it clear that the Canadian Customs officials were quite comfortable with us entering Canada...until they learned that Tony was an Aussie. What can I say? You have to have some standards, no matter how low they may seem. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ We got that when Reed, Reed's son Dan and I drove across the border into Canada. It seemed they were on the look out for any and all Aussies, especially bearded ones so the car was checked. The investigating officer found it a bit hard to believe all the rod tubes were full of rods so it's not just airline people who think that way. -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Nov 17 03:14:18 2001 fAH9EGH03967 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 03:14:17 - fAH9EHU29058; Subject: Re: Planing forms Further to my previous post- E. Bought the forms. No skill required. Result - really crappy forms, =inaccurate strips. Not necesarily "glue lines", but definitely =inaccurate.Result (secondary) - by the time you remake the forms the "skill" thing =has resolved itself. Peter Further to my previous =post- necesarily "glue lines", but definitely inaccurate.Result (secondary) - by the time you = forms the "skill" thing has resolved itself. Peter from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Nov 17 07:54:30 2001 fAHDsTH07131 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 07:54:29 - (authenticated) Sat, 17 Nov 2001 05:54:03 -0800 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine Good work, Chris. If anyone has an extra copy of that issue they mightbe willing to part with, please let me know. Harry Chris Wohlford wrote: There is one issue that would qualify as a "RodBuilders " issue and that is: Fly Fisherman, vol.5, no.3, Spring 1974 -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 17 08:30:32 2001 fAHEUSH09076 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:30:32 - fAHEUZ815697 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:30:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms Now Vixen File I beleive the part # is G 7792, it is only a 10"file and is called Mill Curved File The Vixen file I showed at the very first SRG came from my Aircraft days. It was used for cleaning upthe edges of aluminum sheet metal. If a person isaround an AFB or aircraft Mfg. that has a surplussale from time to time you might still be able tofind them there. There is no better way to handfile those forms. This same type file is used todress the edges of snow skies. It usually comesset in a plastic holder with some tighteningscrews that clamp the file in the holder. They aregenerally only about 4" long but are great fordressing the surface of the forms to remove anyplane nicks. It is used the same way that it wouldbe used to dress the ski edges.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Pe Several list members have mentionedfinding Vixen files at Grizzly Imports at areasonable price. **rhaps someone will chime inwith a part number?? ** I got mine from a formerlist-member (Davy Riggs -- anyone rememberhim?). He worked for Boeing, and I think hebought them surplus from their shop, or elsecarried them out in his lunchbox. [:-)] He sentit to me, no cost. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Nov 17 08:32:46 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAHEWjH09376 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:32:45 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:32:53 -0600 Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question Usually a hookless barb. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Line Wt. Question I doesn't get much deeper than that. You use a hook, don't you? [:-)] Tony *********************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Sat Nov 17 08:41:11 2001 fAHEfBH09865 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:41:11 - for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:41:17 - Subject: RE: Vixen Files - was Planning (sic) forms Purchase a Vixen file without a tang. These files have a countersunk hole ateach end of the file, allowing them to be fastened to a wooden block withscrews. An example of this type of file may be seen at: http://www.jlindustrial.com/Search/item.asp?IK=NIC%2D20189 Vixen files work very well for shaping wood too.As Harry pointed out, "Vixen" is a brand name. Try asking for "body files"or "curved tooth" files. If there is a body shop supply near you, I willguarantee that they will have them. Body shops use these files for roughshaping plastic body filler prior to using sandpaper, or to remove the crown from small outward dents. I haven't used any of the files sold by Grizzly, but my experience withfiles has usually been that if it isn't a quality, brand name file, you willmake up the difference in price with your time. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms Frank and Faith wrote:Harry could you please enlighten me to what a Vixen file is and where I canget one? Thomas's Penrose's site call for a Mill Bastard file so I borrowedone of those. What are the advantages of a Vixen file over a Mill Bastardfile.Frank, (and Wayne)A vixen file is sometimes known as an auto body file. Back in the dayswhen auto body work was done by hand, in other words before power sanderswere de rigeur, these very aggressive files were used to remove excessmaterial. If my ascii art works, a vixen file basically looks like this:__________________--- ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((The teeth are very sharp and cut aggessively, removing as much as athousandth or two of metal on each pass down your forms. This file is oneof the keys to making forms in a short time. You should be able to do allthe filing on one side of your forms in an hour and a half at most. In mymind, this beats the heck out of hour after hour of draw filing.I drilled and countersunk a hole in the tang of the file, and attachedan oak handle. The file I use is 14" long. One hand goes on the handle,the other on the file itself. Holding the file just slightly skewed fromparallel to the bars of your planing form, make a pass, then shift the file.Make another pass, and shift the file. This technique for filing isdescribed well in Wayne's book. You'll need to brush the bars clean afterabout two passes. Metal comes off in a BIG hurry, so use caution. When theentire surface of the two bars shows a bright surface, you're through withthat side. Turn the two finished sides together for use as the innersurfaces of your forms.Several list members have mentioned finding Vixen files at GrizzlyImports at a reasonable price. **Perhaps someone will chime in with a partnumber?? ** I got mine from a former list-member (Davy Riggs -- anyoneremember him?). He worked for Boeing, and I think he bought them surplus from their shop, or else carried them out in his lunchbox. [:-)] He sent itto me, no cost.Next drill and tap the forms. Use the correct size drill -- most peopledo not. You should use a drill identified with either a letter or a numberto prepare for tapping a fractional sized hole. For instance, use a size Zdrill with a 9/16-16 tap (I don't know the right combo's off hand). But youdon't drill with a 1/4" bit for a 5/16" tapped thread unless you wantblisters and broken taps.Buy a good tap. Spend $15 or more on your tap and its handle, and itwill save you many, many hours of work. Use plenty of cutting fluid.Use either feeler gauges or your dial calipers to set the formsconsistently wider at each station, following Tom Penrose's directionscarefully. Then use the 60* lathe tool described in Bruce Conner's FAQ todo the majority of the groove cutting. The bit costs about $2, and I madethe holder from scrap wood and two set screws. Total cost, $3. One tip, dothe tip side of your forms first, so that when (not if) you screw up and gotoo deep, you can use the messed up tip side for the butt side. Once youget close, switch to a triangular file glued to a block of wood, or evenbetter, one of Don Schneider's File Planes (described in the current PowerFibers e-zine).CRS 12' -- $13Dowel pins -- $5Shoulder bolts and set screws -- $15Vixen file -- $0Drill press -- borrowed3" Drill press vice --$13 at SearsTap -- $15File plane -- Giftlathe tool -- $3Total cost on forms tools and materials $61, plus laborI've got a vixen file, a 60* cutter, and a File plane that I'll be gladto loan to anyone for a week or two. Just promise to return them as soon asyou are through.I don't think there is a single idea described above that is originalwith me. And I've borrowed from half a dozen sources to develop thistechnique. All of them have come through this list over the last 5 years.So my thanks to all those I've borrowed from.Got carried away in this reply, sorry,Harry ---- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Nov 17 09:23:07 2001 fAHFN2H10678 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:23:06 - helo=g2t8c9) id 1657JC-0001CE-00; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 07:23:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Discribe these rod actions Jerry,When you ask for a 7' 4wt on this list you are apt to get a bunch ofresponses that recommend the Sir D/WC 7'4wt. Let me see, objectively therodis light in hand and not to soft or stiff. Now subjectively guys who castgraphite find it very nice to cast. It has a slight parabolic feel but it isnot full flexing type of rod. It can cast in the right hands almost thewhole line on the lawn. But I would not recommend trying to set a hook atthat distance on the water. It cast well up close and handles fish verynicely with some authority. About the only draw back is when you make thisrod several of your other rods will sit in the closet and get lonely. It is a favorite. And for what it is worth I find the rod medium actionusing the upper half of the rod to cast and with a butt that only kicks inwhen called on to so. Adam Vigil Jerry wroteI need help choosing the taper of my new rod. I want a 7' for a four.It is impossible for me to cast them all, your input will be appreciated.Are these tapers fast, slow, stiff butted, soft tip? Please try to beobjective from frank.haran@sympatico.ca Sat Nov 17 09:39:41 2001 fAHFdeH11069 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:39:40 - srv.bellnexxia.net Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:39:42 -0500 Subject: RE: Planning (sic) forms There seems to be a lot of good tips floating around at the moment onbuilding planning forms. Could I suggest that Todd maybe include some ofthis stuff in his tips site. Harry's below seem to summarize a lot of thepoint, and there was also some good ones regarding which steel to use, e.g.don't use colded rolled, use something that has been stress relieved. Many Thanks,Frank.[Frank and Faith] Harry Boyd wrote: .Frank, (and Wayne)A vixen file is sometimes known as an auto body file. Back in thedays when auto body work was done by hand, in other words before powersanders were de rigeur, these very aggressive files were used to removeexcess material. If my ascii art works, a vixen file basically looks likethis:__________________ (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( The teeth are very sharp and cut aggessively, removing as much as athousandth or two of metal on each pass down your forms. This file is oneof the keys to making forms in a short time. You should be able to do all thefiling on one side of your forms in an hour and a half at most. In my mind,this beats the heck out of hour after hour of draw filing. I drilled and countersunk a hole in the [Frank and Faith] .... seems to be a lot of good tips floating around at the moment on building = there was also some good ones regarding which steel to use, e.g. don't = colded rolled, use something that has been stress =relieved. Thanks,Frank. words before power sanders were de rigeur, these very aggressive files = as much as a thousandth or two of metal on each pass down your = be able to do all the filing on one side of your forms in an hour and = from BambooRods@aol.com Sat Nov 17 09:58:37 2001 fAHFwbH11586 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:58:37 - Subject: soaking strips Bundled? jbbamboo@hotmail.com,lblove@omniglobal.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Two simple questions:1) Should the strips be soaked bundled (rough 60*), or separate?2)Should they be soaked prior to the first 7 minute heat treat? I have a set that I rough planed to 60's and have already done the 7 minute regiment. Am I going to have a problem if I soak them now? TIA Doug from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Nov 17 10:13:45 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAHGDiH11987 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:13:44 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:13:52 -0600 Subject: When to Remove the Enamel :Having contributed some frivolous messages recently to the list, I now dopenance by asking a question actually related to bamboo rodmaking. I've studied most of the bamboo rodmaking books from Garrison on, and theyall assume that the enamel will be left on until after the sections areglued. Some even talk about how, when you finally remove the enamel, youmust suck it up and throw it away if you discover wormholes or other flaws.I have never understood why a person would wait until such a strip waspermanently glued to five other perfectly good strips before taking off theenamel. I have always removed the enamel from the strips prior to planning,and discovered several bad pieces (with flaws hidden under the enamel) thatwould have ruined a section. By the same token, I've discovered strips withnasty looking marks on the enamel, but absolutely no trace of any flaw justbelow the enamel. So I wonder what others are doing, and if there is somereason I'm missing for keeping the enamel on until the sections are gluedup. I can think of only two possible reasons to keep the enamel. One is thatglue might not stick as well to enamel, making removal of excess glueeasier. But I've never had a problem with that. I've used Titebond, PU andURAC glues. I do wipe down the glued up section before hanging it up to set(using a rag damp with whichever solvent is right for the glue in question),but I think most everyone does that. The second reason would involve Morgan Hand mill users, whose anvils (fornon-Morganites, the anvil is the high density plastic rail on which thestrip rests while being planed) have slightly concave surfaces toaccommodate the curved outer surface of a bamboo strip. But I've never hadany trouble with this even with strips having the enamel removed with ascraper plane which makes that surface flat. Of course, anyone concernedwith retaining the curvature can remove the enamel in a way that preservesthis - just as they otherwise would have to do when the section was glued.Also, when it comes to tip sections it is much easier to control the removalof enamel on an unplanned strip than on the tiny surfaces left near the tipof a finished section. So....do many of you leave the enamel on until after gluing, have you had todiscard glued sections as a result, and is there some reason to retain theenamel that I've missed? Barry from caneman@clnk.com Sat Nov 17 10:14:55 2001 fAHGEnH12127 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:14:54 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:39:18 -0600 Subject: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time Well, as always, Saturdays are slow on the list, so I thought I'd share alittle experience with you, and maybe bring a smile. Once again, this isone of my real life maladies, and for those of you that know what I'm doing,yes, it's included... Enjoy,Bob Hare's Ear NymphsA few weeks ago, I dropped by my ex-wife's house to visit with myyoungest sons, Tyler and Bryce for awhile. She and I get along well, andher husband, Mike, I count among my friends.Mike is more of a hunter than a fisher and always has a new toy of one sortor another. This time, he had to show me a new pellet rifle that he hadbought to keep the rabbits out of his herb garden. I sat looking at thishigh tech contraption with when out the back window Mike spied a rabbitheading for the herbs."Damn", he said. "I wish he'd get a little closer, I'd get him""Mike, he's not that far away do you have this thing sighted in?"He looked at me funny and said "Yeah, it's dead on, but no way you canhit him from here!"I didn't bother to mention to him that in my younger days I shot in longrange competitions and that, when married to my first wife, our ammo billwas almost as much as our grocery bill every month. I just smiled and said"Open the door, very slowly."Mike opened the door and I took aim and dropped the Oregano thief in hisfuzzy little tracks. Mike was shocked. "I heard you could shoot prettygood, but I didn't know you were that good!"I was tickled that Mike was so amazed. After all, he was the hunter,and I was the flyfisher. He hunts almost as much as I fish, and the littlebunny really wasn't that far away."Well, I'll go get him and feed him to the cat," he said.I couldn't let a nice piece of potential fly tying material like this beeaten by the cat, so I replied "Mike, just get a plastic bag for me and I'lltake him home and skin him out. I can use the hide for tying Hare's EarNymphs.""No problem. Do you mind bringing the carcass back when you get himskinned. I'd kinda like these cats to develop a taste for rabbits. Maybe Iwon't have to shoot 'em, if these damn cats know they taste good," heasked."Sure. I'll bring everything but the hide back tomorrow when I pick upthe boys for the weekend"I threw the bunny, in the plastic bag in the back of the Trooper, andMike and I sat down and drank a beer or two. Well, maybe it was more thanone or two. Maybe it was closer to a six or eight. Regardless, my fifteenminute trip to say hello to the boys turned into a 5 hour session in thegarage watching sports channels and doing our best to raise the quarterlyprofits of a couple of breweries. When I left, I was tired, and maybe alittle "happy" and upon arriving at my house, so I kicked back in therecliner and called it a night.The next day, I woke up to a lot of work to do in the shop. There wererods to be varnished, blanks to be sanded and strips to plane for new rods.I spend the entire day in the shop working, breaking only for lunch. Iclosed up the shop at 5:00 PM and took a shower so I could be ready to pickup the boys at 6:00 PM for their weekend stay with me.The boys, as always, were eager to head to Dad's house. We orderedPizza that night, and the next day went out to the farm to visit with myMother. Tyler and Bryce call her Nanny, and to them, Nanny hung the moonand the stars.The weather was miserably hot, but Nanny took the kids to one of thestock ponds on the farm in search of bluegill. They had a fun day fishingand I had a fun day running over things in the pasture with the tractor.Some call what I was attempting to do brushhogging, but if you see the way Idrive a tractor, you'd agree that it's "just running over things".The day ended and we headed back to my house. The kids were tired andso was I, so we all took turns in the shower and headed for bed.The next morning we got up, watched a little TV, then headed back toNanny's house. Sunday dinner at Nanny's is a tradition. She always spendsa lot more time fixing dinner than anyone expects her to, putting on, whatwe in the South, call a "Big Feed" for the family. It could be pot roast,it could be fried chicken, it could be grilled steaks you just never knewuntil you got there exactly what was on the menu, but you could count on itbeing fantastic, and you could count on there being enough there to feed anarmy.Just before time to eat, Mom needed something from town, and asked metogo get it. I really didn't want to get out of the air conditioner into that100 degree heat, but I'd do anything she asked, so I went out to my littleblack Isuzu Trooper, the interior of which was much hotter than the outsideair, started it up and headed to town to do the shopping.When I got in the car, I noticed a funny scent. I couldn't place whatit was, for sure, but I had smelled it before. The last time I smelled it,I ran across a half eaten hamburger in a bag, stuffed under the seat wheremy youngest son had stashed it. I tolerated the noxious odor and drove onto town. When I arrived at the grocery store, the first thing I did waslook under the seats to see if Bryce had stashed food that might be rotting.Nothing there! I just couldn't find anything that would smell that bad.Actually, it was getting so bad that when I went into the store, I bought acan of air freshener and sprayed in the Trooper before I drove back out tothe farm. That helped, but didn't completely relieve the odor.When I arrived at the house, I walked in and put the sack of grocerieson the kitchen cabinet, hugged my Mom and went back to the Living Area towatch the NASCAR race. A commercial came on and I sat there in thereclinerstaring out the glass front of the house towards the pasture. I caughtmovement out of the corner of my eye and lo and behold, a pair of cottontailrabbits were playing off to one side of the deck. Even as the race resumed,I sat smiling watching the rabbits bounce and chase each other.RABBITS!!! OH MY GOD! I had forgotten all about the rabbit in the backof the Trooper!"TYLER!" I screamed."Yeah, Dad, I'm right here. Whaddya want?""Tyler, there's a blue plastic sack laying in the back of the Trooperwith the top tied on it. Do me a favor and get it out of the truck, andthrow it over the back ridge as far as you can!""OK, What's in it?""Remember the rabbit I shot at your Mom's house the other day well,he's been cooking in that plastic bag every since. I forgot all about him!""Oh, Man! Was that what was stinking in the car this morning?" heasked."Yeah, son, that's it!"Being a good son, he did the dirty deed for me, and then of course hewent on an afternoon long rant, mentioning things like dementia, senilityand Alzheimer's. For the task he had performed, I put up the teasing with asmile. I figured since he had dragged out this bag of rotting bunny anddisposed of it for me, the very least I could do was tolerate the histeasing for a few hours, and take it with a grin.Well, the rabbit was gone, and things would get better, but I did keepthe can of air freshener in the Trooper for the next few days. The rabbitwas in the car in that heat for only about 3 days, but the odor he leftbehind hung in there for most of the next week. Needless to say, when Ismell something funny in the car these days, I'm not near as apt to lectureBryce about hamburgers or dirty socks under the seat. I just smile as Ithrow them away. from jerryy@webtv.net Sat Nov 17 10:59:10 2001 fAHGx9H12970 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:59:09 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA28963; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:59:15 - ETAsAhQSOvCDHf8121jVMIfR65oe6xsCvgIUc22FXkKoRrvMZHcaOFPU7JqdHgs= Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:13:47 -0600 Barry - I remove the enamel after the rough cut and tempering. Use aSanderson scraper and a sharp filet knife. With a hand mill I feel itis just a whole lot more accurate to remove it before setting the finaltaper. Regards, Jerry Young from homes-sold@home.com Sat Nov 17 11:01:34 2001 fAHH1XH13207 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:01:33 - femail38.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:01:41 -0800 "RodMakers List \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel Barry,I think, "don't ever plane off the enamel" is one of those old things thatwas said way back when. Never did make much sense to me. I plane it off forall the reasons you said. To me, the strips also fit better in the forms forfinal planing. So....do many of you leave the enamel on until after gluing, from frank.haran@sympatico.ca Sat Nov 17 11:04:40 2001 fAHH4dH13475 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:04:39 -0600 Subject: RE: PU Glue Hi All If you really want to get the official way of handling any material then useany good search engine and search on MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet).This is what any industry has to complete by law and amongst other things ittells about the hazards of a material, how to handle it properly, and whatto do in times of an accident. I work in an industry that handles quite afew hazardous chemicals and these sheets are used to protect the employerand the employee. They are none ambiguous and give the facts. For exampleI searched on 'Acetone MSDS' and came up with a lot of hits. For Acetonecheck out: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/a0446.htm. Cheers, Frank. from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 17 11:22:09 2001 fAHHM8H14060 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:22:08 -0600 for ; id LAA26714271 Subject: Re: Planning forms While I would encourage anyone who wants to do so to build their ownforms,I will also add that when finished you will know why forms cost what theydo. Even when made of Maple! I made mine, they are OK and work well enough,but sheesh are they labor intensive! I enjoy making things. I'd guess I've spent enough on tools and other thingsto buy a rod, but I like to build stuff. All day long I work with my mind. (oh, there is a little manual labor, movingcomputers or punching down wires, but that's all.) So when I come home ILIKEto sharpen an old plane iron/blade or drill holes in oak. If I didn't like towork with my hands, I'd hire Terry A. to build my rod for me. If I were doing this for a living, I'd sure do what Terry did and build somecost cutting/labor saving tools.----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 17 11:22:10 2001 fAHHM9H14064 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:22:09 -0600 for ; id LAA49167568 Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine just met a gentleman (very interesting, and opinionated) that was afeatured builder from the era. I would like to get a copy of the text ifanyone has it. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Was this fellah in Arkansas, by any chance?----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 17 11:22:11 2001 fAHHMAH14068 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:22:10 - for ; id LAA48046900 Subject: Re: A question for the "PU" boys I'd glue it on with epoxy, then fill any voids by mixing cork dust withelmers & cramming it into the gaps. The other option would be to tape the blank to ensure a good fit, theninstall a winding check to hide the tape. I'd go with number two. Much more control over what happens. I have atendency to get in a hurry if I'm worried about glue time.----------------------- -----Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 17 11:22:11 2001 fAHHMAH14069 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:22:10 - for ; id LAA49196262 Subject: Re: Plane groove width and depth 've aquired a few bench planes from ebay, and as I take a break fromsanding in a groove on the sole of one of them, it occurs to me that I've never seen any advice on how wide and how deep a groove should be. So I'll put forth my opinion. Darryl, What grit do you use? I find that I have to start at a really low grit to evenbegin to remove any material.----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 17 11:22:12 2001 fAHHMCH14076 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:22:12 - for ; id LAA48316963 Subject: Re: Planning (sic) forms ...Now, there is nothing wrong with just buying everything and for many folks this is the best solution. However, making the stuff, if you have the skills, is also quite gratifying (I'm not sure which made me more pleased, my finished forms or my first rod).Cheers.Jon McAnulty My feelings exactly John. I'm not a Terry A. who wants to go into rodproduction. I want to build my own rods and maybe give a few away tofriends.Which means I don't have a big time constraint. It's fun to design, then buildsomething. It's great to finish a project and see it work. If you just want to own a bamboo rod, buy one, it's cheaper in the long run.--- -------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 17 11:22:13 2001 fAHHMCH14078 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:22:12 - for ; id LAA48104024 Subject: Re: It can't be done that way Hi Darryl, A couple of years ago I tested the "can't plane the power fibers" truism and found that planing all the way up to .010 from the enamel side made no discernable difference to the strength, flex characteristics or anything except the appearance - which improved because a lot of the blemishes and watermarks don't go that deep. It's also a way to straighten out nodes without having to heat and press them. When I first got into rod RE-building, I started with sections I'd picked up atflea-markets. My thinking was "each section contained a total amount ofpowerfibers. If I needed to reduce a taper I could remove a percent of powerfibers from the outside and still have the same amount of power fibers as thetargettaper." For example If I had a 9 foot 8 wt mid section with (this is just somenumbers for this example, folks. not an actual count of anything.) 1000powerfibers and wanted to make a 71/2 foot 5 wt. with 800 power fibers in it, Icouldremover 200 power fibers from the outside without going below the original71/2foot rods 'strength'." I tested this theory and found that it will indeed work. However you justcan'tjust remove power fibers from the outside of a rod and expect it to perform. Myfirst rod broke on my first few casts. It became apparent that I was goingtohave to modify the target taper. (I later repaired this rod and It's the one Iwas using when I caught the 4lb. bass.) There are two caveats: First, I really don't know how many "power fibers"arein each section. Because bamboo is a natural fiber, each section will have adifferent count from the next. However, most rods are made with morethanenough power fibers for the section. Most makers recommend at least asmuchpower fibers as you can get. 100% for the tip section and as close to 100%asyou can get for a butt section. I believe that most rods have more thanenoughdepth of power fibers for some "slight" modification. Second, the best power fibers are closest to the outside. Removing themtakes agrater percent of power away from the rod, than removing those below it. So inmy above example, I would want to remove less than (200 power fibers) toattainthe same strength in my section as the target section had. How to do this became the question. I've come up with two simple answers. First method: Remove between 1/2 and 2/3 the difference between thetapers.(If has a diameter of .130 and the other has a diameter of .100 I'd aim for.115 or .110 depending on the rod, my gut feeling and the time of day!!!Just kidding about the time of day.) Second method: Add one .001 to the taper for each 5in station.066 tip remains .066.074 becomes .075.089 becomes .091and so on. If you think about it there are limitations to each. However I've madeseveralrods that are fairly nice casting tools, so far. I'm still learning thelimitations of all this, but most of my failures haven't been because of overstressed bamboo. They've been things like bad ferrule seating, poor choiceofrod sections, etc. Glues - what a lot of differing opinions there. I've even tried Elmer's white glue, and that rod hasn't failed yet. I've used Elmers to repair some section and they seem to be holding nicely.. I like to experiment, I'm glad you do too. You do a lot of orige7nal stuff.---- ------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 17 11:22:18 2001 fAHHMHH14085 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:22:17 - for ; id LAA49472602 Subject: Re: Stanley plane from terry A. ...You canot compare both, but you know this? Well,Terry's last post seems to have been a few weeks ago. I guess he's goneagain...??----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Nov 17 12:29:24 2001 fAHITNH16968 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:29:23 - for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:29:20 - Subject: Re: Plane groove width and depth 220 wet/dry, I sand dry and use one of those handheld vacuum cleaners witha rotating brush in the head.Darryl Darryl, What grit do you use? I find that I have to start at a really low grit to evenbegin to remove any material. 220 wet/dry, I sand dry and use one of those handheld vacuum cleaners witha rotating brush in the head.Darryl Darryl, evenbegin to remove any material. from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Nov 17 12:36:20 2001 fAHIaJH17340 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:36:20 - for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:36:17 - Subject: Re: It can't be done that way The basic difference I see here is I start with strips where I can control the depth of the fibers. If a strip doesn't have enough fibers I just don't use it, or I don't plane the enamel side. You were starting with an already glued up section and really couldn't tell the depth of the fibers.Darryl Stuff deleted to keep the archive police happy: I tested this theory and found that it will indeed work. However you just can'tjust remove power fibers from the outside of a rod and expect it to perform. Stuff deleted to keep the archive police happy: The basic difference I see here is I start with strips where I can control thedepth of the fibers. If a strip doesn't have enough fibers I just don't use it,or I don't plane the enamel side. You were starting with an already glued upsection and really couldn't tell the depth of the fibers.Darryl Stuff deleted to keep the archive police happy: I tested this theory and just remove power fibers from the outside of a rod and expect it to perform. Stuff deleted to keep the archive police happy: from harry37@gbronline.com Sat Nov 17 12:59:51 2001 fAHIxpH18183 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:59:51 - 12:56:16 2001 -0600 Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine Was this the one titles FFM Staffers "Roll their own"? Steve Trauthwein wrote: Hello All, Does anyone have a copy of the Rod Builder issue of Fly FishermanMagazine? It was published in the first year of the mags existence. Ijust met a gentleman (very interesting, and opinionated) that was afeatured builder from the era. I would like to get a copy of the text ifanyone has it. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Sat Nov 17 14:19:31 2001 fAHKJUH19627 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:19:31 - 0000 Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel Barry,Garrison removed enamel before gluing, actually before final taper, afterheat treat. This is what I do. He used a scraping plane, like the 212 orsomething, I sand.I thought Wayne C. and Mauer sand theirs before gluing also. Not real sureon the last two, I've only skim read them. Garrison is the only book onrodmaking I own. Your penance has been served.Tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: When to Remove the Enamel :Having contributed some frivolous messages recently to the list, I now dopenance by asking a question actually related to bamboo rodmaking. I've studied most of the bamboo rodmaking books from Garrison on, andtheyall assume that the enamel will be left on until after the sections areglued. Some even talk about how, when you finally remove the enamel, youmust suck it up and throw it away if you discover wormholes or other flaws. I have never understood why a person would wait until such a strip waspermanently glued to five other perfectly good strips before taking off the enamel. I have always removed the enamel from the strips prior to planning, and discovered several bad pieces (with flaws hidden under the enamel) that would have ruined a section. By the same token, I've discovered strips with nasty looking marks on the enamel, but absolutely no trace of any flaw just below the enamel. So I wonder what others are doing, and if there is somereason I'm missing for keeping the enamel on until the sections are gluedup. I can think of only two possible reasons to keep the enamel. One is thatglue might not stick as well to enamel, making removal of excess glueeasier. But I've never had a problem with that. I've used Titebond, PU andURAC glues. I do wipe down the glued up section before hanging it up to set (using a rag damp with whichever solvent is right for the glue in question), but I think most everyone does that. The second reason would involve Morgan Hand mill users, whose anvils (fornon-Morganites, the anvil is the high density plastic rail on which thestrip rests while being planed) have slightly concave surfaces toaccommodate the curved outer surface of a bamboo strip. But I've neverhadany trouble with this even with strips having the enamel removed with ascraper plane which makes that surface flat. Of course, anyone concernedwith retaining the curvature can remove the enamel in a way thatpreservesthis - just as they otherwise would have to do when the section was glued.Also, when it comes to tip sections it is much easier to control the removal of enamel on an unplanned strip than on the tiny surfaces left near the tip of a finished section. So....do many of you leave the enamel on until after gluing, have you had to discard glued sections as a result, and is there some reason to retain theenamel that I've missed? Barry from tfbinn@mindspring.com Sat Nov 17 14:30:16 2001 fAHKUFH20048 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:30:15 - helo=7yjg501) id 165C6V-00089j-00; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:30:19 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine I don't know if this is the specific article in question as there has beenmany cane rod articles in Fly Fisherman since its inception in the late60's, but I'm looking at an article written by John Geirach in the March1988 issue.It's a pretty in-depth look at cane rod makers and their rods at that timeand includes a list of 31 builders, some bigger name production companies,and some small hand planer types. It is an interesting article that I hadn'tlooked at in a long time and I'm grateful that this thread prompted me topull out that ungodly big, musty smelling, box of old mags.Winston from SBDunn@aol.com Sat Nov 17 14:36:22 2001 fAHKaLH20446 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:36:21 - for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:36:07 - Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine You can get a pretty good list of cane articles in the Fly Fisherman magazine (and elsewhere) by reading the bibliography of Ray Gould's book "Cane Rods". Its on page 83. Regards, Steve Dunn. from canazon@mindspring.com Sat Nov 17 15:33:46 2001 fAHLXjH22349 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 15:33:45 - helo=oemcomputer) id 165D60-0001Vi-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:33:52 -0500 Subject: secret weapon all,if you want to bust a gut check out this urlhttp://members.sigecom.net/theclan/taliban.html don't be drinking anything or it might come out your nose.mike all, = this url igecom.net/theclan/taliban.html be = anything or it might come out your nose. mike from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Nov 17 16:08:43 2001 fAHM8gH23903 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:08:42 - Subject: Re: Bret's oven Just in case any one is interested in purchasing a heat treatingoven, I recently got one of Bret's ovens and have been checking it out. It works great. The temp. is very well controlled and gives the color and tempering I'm looking for.I think anyone looking for something like this, will be happy withthe results they get. It is very well made and Bret is a real nice guy to deal with. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sat Nov 17 16:51:25 2001 fAHMpPH25688 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:51:25 - Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:40:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time Priceless Bob, reminds me of the time I went Quail hunting at the localpreserve. I thought I had shot ten but only found 9 in my Filson vest whenit came time to clean 'em. When I got home, rather than toss it in thecorner. I was inspired to hang the vest back into the closet right next tothe only suit. You know the suit. Its the one for weddings funerals andjob interviews. Anyhow, started noticing something in the air aroundWednesday of that week and homed in on it on Friday. It was a good thing too! I had been down all week for having only shot 9Birds. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time Well, as always, Saturdays are slow on the list, so I thought I'd share alittle experience with you, and maybe bring a smile. Once again, this isone of my real life maladies, and for those of you that know what I'm doing, yes, it's included... Enjoy,Bob Hare's Ear NymphsA few weeks ago, I dropped by my ex-wife's house to visit with myyoungest sons, Tyler and Bryce for awhile. She and I get along well, andher husband, Mike, I count among my friends.Mike is more of a hunter than a fisher and always has a new toy of one sort or another. This time, he had to show me a new pellet rifle that he hadbought to keep the rabbits out of his herb garden. I sat looking at thishigh tech contraption with when out the back window Mike spied a rabbitheading for the herbs."Damn", he said. "I wish he'd get a little closer, I'd get him""Mike, he's not that far away do you have this thing sighted in?"He looked at me funny and said "Yeah, it's dead on, but no way you canhit him from here!"I didn't bother to mention to him that in my younger days I shot in long range competitions and that, when married to my first wife, our ammo billwas almost as much as our grocery bill every month. I just smiled and said "Open the door, very slowly."Mike opened the door and I took aim and dropped the Oregano thief in his fuzzy little tracks. Mike was shocked. "I heard you could shoot prettygood, but I didn't know you were that good!"I was tickled that Mike was so amazed. After all, he was the hunter,and I was the flyfisher. He hunts almost as much as I fish, and the little bunny really wasn't that far away."Well, I'll go get him and feed him to the cat," he said.I couldn't let a nice piece of potential fly tying material like this be eaten by the cat, so I replied "Mike, just get a plastic bag for me and I' ll take him home and skin him out. I can use the hide for tying Hare's EarNymphs.""No problem. Do you mind bringing the carcass back when you get himskinned. I'd kinda like these cats to develop a taste for rabbits. Maybe I won't have to shoot 'em, if these damn cats know they taste good," he asked. "Sure. I'll bring everything but the hide back tomorrow when I pick up the boys for the weekend"I threw the bunny, in the plastic bag in the back of the Trooper, andMike and I sat down and drank a beer or two. Well, maybe it was more thanone or two. Maybe it was closer to a six or eight. Regardless, my fifteen minute trip to say hello to the boys turned into a 5 hour session in thegarage watching sports channels and doing our best to raise the quarterlyprofits of a couple of breweries. When I left, I was tired, and maybe alittle "happy" and upon arriving at my house, so I kicked back in therecliner and called it a night.The next day, I woke up to a lot of work to do in the shop. There were rods to be varnished, blanks to be sanded and strips to plane for new rods. I spend the entire day in the shop working, breaking only for lunch. Iclosed up the shop at 5:00 PM and took a shower so I could be ready to pick up the boys at 6:00 PM for their weekend stay with me.The boys, as always, were eager to head to Dad's house. We orderedPizza that night, and the next day went out to the farm to visit with myMother. Tyler and Bryce call her Nanny, and to them, Nanny hung the moonand the stars.The weather was miserably hot, but Nanny took the kids to one of thestock ponds on the farm in search of bluegill. They had a fun day fishingand I had a fun day running over things in the pasture with the tractor.Some call what I was attempting to do brushhogging, but if you see the way I drive a tractor, you'd agree that it's "just running over things".The day ended and we headed back to my house. The kids were tired andso was I, so we all took turns in the shower and headed for bed.The next morning we got up, watched a little TV, then headed back toNanny's house. Sunday dinner at Nanny's is a tradition. She always spends a lot more time fixing dinner than anyone expects her to, putting on, whatwe in the South, call a "Big Feed" for the family. It could be pot roast,it could be fried chicken, it could be grilled steaks you just never knewuntil you got there exactly what was on the menu, but you could count on it being fantastic, and you could count on there being enough there to feed an army.Just before time to eat, Mom needed something from town, and asked me to go get it. I really didn't want to get out of the air conditioner into that 100 degree heat, but I'd do anything she asked, so I went out to my littleblack Isuzu Trooper, the interior of which was much hotter than the outside air, started it up and headed to town to do the shopping.When I got in the car, I noticed a funny scent. I couldn't place whatit was, for sure, but I had smelled it before. The last time I smelled it, I ran across a half eaten hamburger in a bag, stuffed under the seat wheremy youngest son had stashed it. I tolerated the noxious odor and drove onto town. When I arrived at the grocery store, the first thing I did waslook under the seats to see if Bryce had stashed food that might be rotting. Nothing there! I just couldn't find anything that would smell that bad.Actually, it was getting so bad that when I went into the store, I bought a can of air freshener and sprayed in the Trooper before I drove back out tothe farm. That helped, but didn't completely relieve the odor.When I arrived at the house, I walked in and put the sack of grocerieson the kitchen cabinet, hugged my Mom and went back to the Living Area towatch the NASCAR race. A commercial came on and I sat there in the recliner staring out the glass front of the house towards the pasture. I caughtmovement out of the corner of my eye and lo and behold, a pair of cottontail rabbits were playing off to one side of the deck. Even as the race resumed, I sat smiling watching the rabbits bounce and chase each other.RABBITS!!! OH MY GOD! I had forgotten all about the rabbit in the backof the Trooper!"TYLER!" I screamed."Yeah, Dad, I'm right here. Whaddya want?""Tyler, there's a blue plastic sack laying in the back of the Trooperwith the top tied on it. Do me a favor and get it out of the truck, andthrow it over the back ridge as far as you can!""OK, What's in it?""Remember the rabbit I shot at your Mom's house the other day well, he' s been cooking in that plastic bag every since. I forgot all about him!""Oh, Man! Was that what was stinking in the car this morning?" heasked."Yeah, son, that's it!"Being a good son, he did the dirty deed for me, and then of course hewent on an afternoon long rant, mentioning things like dementia, senilityand Alzheimer's. For the task he had performed, I put up the teasing with a smile. I figured since he had dragged out this bag of rotting bunny anddisposed of it for me, the very least I could do was tolerate the histeasing for a few hours, and take it with a grin.Well, the rabbit was gone, and things would get better, but I did keepthe can of air freshener in the Trooper for the next few days. The rabbitwas in the car in that heat for only about 3 days, but the odor he leftbehind hung in there for most of the next week. Needless to say, when Ismell something funny in the car these days, I'm not near as apt to lecture Bryce about hamburgers or dirty socks under the seat. I just smile as Ithrow them away. from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sat Nov 17 17:09:27 2001 fAHN9QH26539 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:09:26 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time Rod Makers List Serve I use to live in Garden City Kansas and My father and I did a lot ofpheasant hunting, so when we got home I opened the van door and about thattime that damm rooster came flying out the door and we couldnt shoot it,butwe had 3 dogs so I rushed to the back of the van to open the kennel doorsand boy was the chase on, thank heaven for good birdogs.. I personally dontlike to hunt any birds without dogs, even with dogs you loose some birds..I think it's a lot more fun with dogs... Bob your story reminded me of thatmovie Grumpy Old Men.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time Priceless Bob, reminds me of the time I went Quail hunting at the localpreserve. I thought I had shot ten but only found 9 in my Filson vest when it came time to clean 'em. When I got home, rather than toss it in thecorner. I was inspired to hang the vest back into the closet right next tothe only suit. You know the suit. Its the one for weddings funerals andjob interviews. Anyhow, started noticing something in the air aroundWednesday of that week and homed in on it on Friday. It was a good thing too! I had been down all week for having only shot 9Birds. Tim ----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:13 AMSubject: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time Well, as always, Saturdays are slow on the list, so I thought I'd share a little experience with you, and maybe bring a smile. Once again, this is one of my real life maladies, and for those of you that know what I'm doing, yes, it's included... Enjoy,Bob Hare's Ear NymphsA few weeks ago, I dropped by my ex-wife's house to visit with myyoungest sons, Tyler and Bryce for awhile. She and I get along well, and her husband, Mike, I count among my friends.Mike is more of a hunter than a fisher and always has a new toy of one sort or another. This time, he had to show me a new pellet rifle that he hadbought to keep the rabbits out of his herb garden. I sat looking at this high tech contraption with when out the back window Mike spied a rabbitheading for the herbs."Damn", he said. "I wish he'd get a little closer, I'd get him""Mike, he's not that far away do you have this thing sighted in?"He looked at me funny and said "Yeah, it's dead on, but no way you can hit him from here!"I didn't bother to mention to him that in my younger days I shot in long range competitions and that, when married to my first wife, our ammo bill was almost as much as our grocery bill every month. I just smiled and said "Open the door, very slowly."Mike opened the door and I took aim and dropped the Oregano thief in his fuzzy little tracks. Mike was shocked. "I heard you could shoot prettygood, but I didn't know you were that good!"I was tickled that Mike was so amazed. After all, he was the hunter, and I was the flyfisher. He hunts almost as much as I fish, and the little bunny really wasn't that far away."Well, I'll go get him and feed him to the cat," he said.I couldn't let a nice piece of potential fly tying material like this be eaten by the cat, so I replied "Mike, just get a plastic bag for me and I' ll take him home and skin him out. I can use the hide for tying Hare's EarNymphs.""No problem. Do you mind bringing the carcass back when you get himskinned. I'd kinda like these cats to develop a taste for rabbits. Maybe I won't have to shoot 'em, if these damn cats know they taste good," he asked. "Sure. I'll bring everything but the hide back tomorrow when I pick up the boys for the weekend"I threw the bunny, in the plastic bag in the back of the Trooper, and Mike and I sat down and drank a beer or two. Well, maybe it was more than one or two. Maybe it was closer to a six or eight. Regardless, my fifteen minute trip to say hello to the boys turned into a 5 hour session in thegarage watching sports channels and doing our best to raise the quarterly profits of a couple of breweries. When I left, I was tired, and maybe alittle "happy" and upon arriving at my house, so I kicked back in therecliner and called it a night.The next day, I woke up to a lot of work to do in the shop. There were rods to be varnished, blanks to be sanded and strips to plane for new rods. I spend the entire day in the shop working, breaking only for lunch. Iclosed up the shop at 5:00 PM and took a shower so I could be ready to pick up the boys at 6:00 PM for their weekend stay with me.The boys, as always, were eager to head to Dad's house. We orderedPizza that night, and the next day went out to the farm to visit with myMother. Tyler and Bryce call her Nanny, and to them, Nanny hung the moon and the stars.The weather was miserably hot, but Nanny took the kids to one of thestock ponds on the farm in search of bluegill. They had a fun day fishing and I had a fun day running over things in the pasture with the tractor.Some call what I was attempting to do brushhogging, but if you see the way I drive a tractor, you'd agree that it's "just running over things".The day ended and we headed back to my house. The kids were tired and so was I, so we all took turns in the shower and headed for bed.The next morning we got up, watched a little TV, then headed back toNanny's house. Sunday dinner at Nanny's is a tradition. She always spends a lot more time fixing dinner than anyone expects her to, putting on, what we in the South, call a "Big Feed" for the family. It could be pot roast, it could be fried chicken, it could be grilled steaks you just never knew until you got there exactly what was on the menu, but you could count on it being fantastic, and you could count on there being enough there to feed an army.Just before time to eat, Mom needed something from town, and asked me to go get it. I really didn't want to get out of the air conditioner into that 100 degree heat, but I'd do anything she asked, so I went out to my little black Isuzu Trooper, the interior of which was much hotter than the outside air, started it up and headed to town to do the shopping.When I got in the car, I noticed a funny scent. I couldn't place what it was, for sure, but I had smelled it before. The last time I smelled it, I ran across a half eaten hamburger in a bag, stuffed under the seat where my youngest son had stashed it. I tolerated the noxious odor and drove on to town. When I arrived at the grocery store, the first thing I did waslook under the seats to see if Bryce had stashed food that might be rotting. Nothing there! I just couldn't find anything that would smell that bad.Actually, it was getting so bad that when I went into the store, I bought a can of air freshener and sprayed in the Trooper before I drove back out to the farm. That helped, but didn't completely relieve the odor.When I arrived at the house, I walked in and put the sack of groceries on the kitchen cabinet, hugged my Mom and went back to the Living Area to watch the NASCAR race. A commercial came on and I sat there in the recliner staring out the glass front of the house towards the pasture. I caughtmovement out of the corner of my eye and lo and behold, a pair of cottontail rabbits were playing off to one side of the deck. Even as the race resumed, I sat smiling watching the rabbits bounce and chase each other.RABBITS!!! OH MY GOD! I had forgotten all about the rabbit in the back of the Trooper!"TYLER!" I screamed."Yeah, Dad, I'm right here. Whaddya want?""Tyler, there's a blue plastic sack laying in the back of the Trooper with the top tied on it. Do me a favor and get it out of the truck, andthrow it over the back ridge as far as you can!""OK, What's in it?""Remember the rabbit I shot at your Mom's house the other day well, he' s been cooking in that plastic bag every since. I forgot all about him!" "Oh, Man! Was that what was stinking in the car this morning?" heasked."Yeah, son, that's it!"Being a good son, he did the dirty deed for me, and then of course he went on an afternoon long rant, mentioning things like dementia, senility and Alzheimer's. For the task he had performed, I put up the teasing with a smile. I figured since he had dragged out this bag of rotting bunny anddisposed of it for me, the very least I could do was tolerate the histeasing for a few hours, and take it with a grin.Well, the rabbit was gone, and things would get better, but I did keep the can of air freshener in the Trooper for the next few days. The rabbit was in the car in that heat for only about 3 days, but the odor he leftbehind hung in there for most of the next week. Needless to say, when Ismell something funny in the car these days, I'm not near as apt to lecture Bryce about hamburgers or dirty socks under the seat. I just smile as Ithrow them away. from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 17 17:09:38 2001 fAHN9bH26568 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:09:37 - ;Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:09:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Ron Barch I think it's aldercreek@core.com Jack from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Nov 17 18:41:44 2001 fAI0fhH29777 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:41:43 - (authenticated) Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:41:26 -0800 Subject: Re: soaking strips Bundled? Doug, I have only soaked split strips, before straightening and flattening nodes,and before planing into untapered 60* triangles, and before heat treating.Soaking at that time works well. Others on the list may know more aboutplaningwet strips into tapered strips than I do. Harry BambooRods@aol.com wrote: 1) Should the strips be soaked bundled (rough 60*), or separate?2)Should they be soaked prior to the first 7 minute heat treat? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Nov 17 18:52:04 2001 fAI0q3H00375 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:52:03 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel Perhaps "If" to remove the enamel. I was casting a very nice Leonard Catskill (7'6" 3/4wt) the other day when the owner pointed out to me the enamel left on the cane. There were many patches of enamel showing on this exquisite rod. They stood out as blemishes to me, but obviously the Leonard folks thought nothing of them.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 17 19:28:41 2001 fAI1SaH01617 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:28:40 -0600 helo=default) id 165GlH-0005b0-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:28:44 -0500 Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel I leave the enamel on until I am approximately .015 - .020 away from final.This gives me plenty of allowance for errant nodes. M-D Having contributed some frivolous messages recently to the list, I now dopenance by asking a question actually related to bamboo rodmaking. I've studied most of the bamboo rodmaking books from Garrison on, andtheyall assume that the enamel will be left on until after the sections areglued SNIP Barry from oandc@email.msn.com Sat Nov 17 20:18:06 2001 fAI2I5H02943 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:18:05 - Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:17:19 -0800 Subject: File Plane FILETIME=[264E4500:01C16FD7] Recently someone posted the url showing plans for a file plane. If you couldpost it again I would appreciate it. Off list please. TIA Wayne from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Nov 17 20:28:46 2001 fAI2SfH03478 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:28:46 - Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I remove it before final planing. (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) I remove it before finalplaning. (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 17 20:37:36 2001 fAI2bMH03992 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:37:22 - "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: RE: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time I thought someone would have ended up eating the rabbit.Great prose.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Non Rodmaking, just to pass the time Priceless Bob, reminds me of the time I went Quail hunting at the localpreserve. I thought I had shot ten but only found 9 in my Filson vest whenit came time to clean 'em. When I got home, rather than toss it in thecorner. I was inspired to hang the vest back into the closet right next tothe only suit. You know the suit. Its the one for weddings funerals andjob interviews. Anyhow, started noticing something in the air aroundWednesday of that week and homed in on it on Friday. It was a good thing too! I had been down all week for having only shot 9Birds. Tim from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 17 20:37:43 2001 fAI2bAH03982 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 20:37:42 - Subject: RE: Bret's oven Dave:I agree. Fired mine up yesterday and got some great heat treated stripsfromit. I have had some electrical problems in the shop (not related to theoven), and Bret has helped me work them out. He is really dedicated tomaking the oven venture happen. It is worth the money if you want properlyheat treated rods. I would have to say that in my preliminary tests with thethermometer inside, Bret's thermostat is more accurate than my electricovenin the kitchen.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bret's oven Just in case any one is interested in purchasing a heat treatingoven, I recently got one of Bret's ovens and have been checkingit out. It works great. The temp. is very well controlled and givesthe color and tempering I'm looking for.I think anyone looking for something like this, will be happy withthe results they get. It is very well made and Bret is a real nice guy todeal with. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from bydesign@cfw.com Sat Nov 17 21:07:57 2001 fAI37uH05448 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:07:56 - 0500 Subject: Inside ferrule prep This question is not because I've had failures, but more to hopefully headoff something in the future. Before glueing with epoxy, I use a small fileto rough the interior of my ferrules. Is this pretty much the standardmethod? What else is there? Is there a chemical method?-say somethingyoucould dip a Q- tip into and etch the insides? Rich Young from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sat Nov 17 21:13:10 2001 fAI3D8H05794 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:13:08 - Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:13:12 PST Subject: Need opinions, not rodmaking but is bamboo related Rod redo and value----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------Recently picked up an H-I Tonka Queen for a goodprice at an Antiques market. Planning on redoing it topossibly fish with. Problem is that the butt sectionhas a fishing set in it. While I don't have a problemwith sets in tips, seems to me that a set in the buttsection is just begging to be straightened. I've doneenough straightening to know how to do this. Myproblem is that I know this type of set tends toreturn and the only real solution is to rotate thebutt section so that the new placement of the guidesis opposite the set. However, this means removing theplastic reelseat that is on it. Don't think I'm goingto get this reelseat off in one piece. If I rotate therod and replace the reelseat, ferrules and guides,should I bother leaving the Tonka Queen signature onthe rod? What is going to happen to any value it mighthave? Should I even worry about value? Looking foradvice from anyone that has faced this particulardilemma. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from JNL123141@msn.com Sat Nov 17 21:18:37 2001 fAI3IaH06140 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:18:37 - Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:18:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep FILETIME=[B8199900:01C16FDF] & then in alcohol. It never occurred to me to roughen the inside. Mayb=e you are on to something there...... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Inside ferrule prep This question is not because I've had failures, but more to hopefully hea=doff something in the future. Before glueing with epoxy, I use a small fi=leto rough the interior of my ferrules. Is this pretty much the standardmethod? What else is there? Is there a chemical method?-say something y=oucould dip a Q-tip into and etch the insides? Rich Young $.02, I=have never done anything but clean with a Q-tip in acetone & then in= John&n= q=uestion is not because I've had failures, but more to hopefully heado= chemi=cal method?-say something youcould dip a Q-tip into and etch the insi=des?Rich Young from JNL123141@msn.com Sat Nov 17 21:23:49 2001 fAI3NmH06465 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:23:49 - Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:23:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Need opinions, not rodmaking but is bamboo related FILETIME=[702F9AD0:01C16FE0] What would be the value in mint condition? If you want it for fishing do=n't worry about it but replacing hardware will wreck the value. If you o=pt to straighten, heat it slow so the heat really penetrates deep. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Need opinions, not rodmaking but is bamboo related Rod redo and value----------------------------------------------------------------------- --=-------Recently picked up an H-I Tonka Queen for a goodprice at an Antiques market. Planning on redoing it topossibly fish with. Problem is that the butt sectionhas a fishing set in it. While I don't have a problemwith sets in tips, seems to me that a set in the buttsection is just begging to be straightened. I've doneenough straightening to know how to do this. Myproblem is that I know this type of set tends toreturn and the only real solution is to rotate thebutt section so that the new placement of the guidesis opposite the set. However, this means removing theplastic reelseat that is on it. Don't think I'm goingto get this reelseat off in one piece. If I rotate therod and replace the reelseat, ferrules and guides,should I bother leaving the Tonka Queen signature onthe rod? What is going to happen to any value it mighthave? Should I even worry about value? Looking foradvice from anyone that has faced this particulardilemma. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com Whatwould be = ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Walters Sent: Saturday, November 17, 200110:15 = Subject: Need opinions, not rodmakingb= -=-------------------------------------------------------------------------=Recently picked up an H-I Tonka Queen for a goodprice at anAntiq=ues market. Planning on redoing it topossibly fish with. Problem is t=hat the butt sectionhas a fishing set in it. While I don't have a pro=blemwith sets in tips, seems to me that a set in the buttsection =is just begging to be straightened. I've doneenough straightening to =know how to do this. Myproblem is that I know this type of set tends =toreturn and the only real solution is to rotate thebutt section =so that the new placement of the guidesis opposite the set. However, =this means removing theplastic reelseat that is on it. Don't think I'=m goingto get this reelseat off in one piece. If I rotate therod =and replace the reelseat, ferrules and guides,should I bother leaving=the Tonka Queen signature onthe rod? What is going to happen to any =value it mighthave? Should I even worry about value? Lookingfora=dvice from anyone that has faced thisparticulardilemma.Thank=s,BillWalters_______________________________________________=___Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo!Personalshttp=://personals.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 17 21:30:34 2001 fAI3UYH06864 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:30:34 -0600 helo=default) id 165IfJ-0004TG-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:30:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep As hard as this is to believe, you will get a better glue joint with asmoother surface when using an epoxy. Clean the ferrule with a solvent(realize that all solvents are not necessarily clean), then use a smallpiece of Scotch-Brite pad to scour the inside surface. Doesn't have to bethe rough variety, the Ultra-fine Gray colored pads work just fine. Blow outthe dust, but DO NOT clean the ferrules again with solvent. Glue on theferrules. M-D This question is not because I've had failures, but more to hopefully headoff something in the future. Before glueing with epoxy, I use a small file to rough the interior of my ferrules. Is this pretty much the standardmethod? What else is there? Is there a chemical method?-say something you could dip a Q-tip into and etch the insides? Rich Young from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Nov 17 21:34:27 2001 fAI3YRH07179 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 21:34:27 - 17 Nov 2001 19:34:27 PST Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep RodmakersPost i rough the inside with a little rat tail file thenscribe a spiral down the inside of it with the end ofthe file. i suppose that if you scribed it deep enoughyou could screw them things on to the end of thestick. [:-)] timothy --- John Long wrote: with a Q-tip in acetone & then in alcohol. It never occurred to me to roughen the inside. Maybe you areon to something there...... John ----- Original Message -----From: Beth YoungSent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:09 PM Subject: Inside ferrule prepThis question is not because I've had failures, butmore to hopefully headoff something in the future. Before glueing withepoxy, I use a small fileto rough the interior of my ferrules. Is thispretty much the standardmethod? What else is there? Is there a chemicalmethod?-say something youcould dip a Q-tip into and etch the insides? Rich Young ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Nov 17 22:18:05 2001 fAI4I3H08563 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:18:04 - for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:18:03 -0500 Subject: Re: inside ferrule prep I agree with M-DYou get a better glue joint with a smooth finish and you should NOT =rough the inside of the ferrule.But as M-D said It's hard for people to believe this.To date I've had O failure on ferrules including restorations.I had one restoration come back after 3 years of use. I was so worried that I started pinning and changed glues.Once I took the silk off and examined it, the cane had separated(it was =a 30 yr. old rod) The ferrule was solidly glued. I had to heat it up to =remove it.I still think pinning is a good idea, but I think I'll keep my method of =epoxyand no roughing.I used some ferrule tite stuff and if I pull hard enough it will =separate.But NOT roughing the ferrule is a hard pill for most to swallow.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I agree with M-DYou get a better glue joint with a smooth finish and you should NOT = the inside of the ferrule. To date I've had O failure on ferrules including =restorations.I had one restoration come back after 3 years of use. I was so worried that I started pinning and changed glues.Once I took the silk off and examined it, the cane had separated(it = 30 yr. old rod) The ferrule was solidly glued. I had to heat it up to = it. of epoxyand no roughing. separate. swallow.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 17 22:18:21 2001 fAI4IKH08609 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:18:20 - Subject: RE: Need opinions, not rodmaking but is bamboo related Hi Bill:I have a Tonka Queen, and I find it to be a rather nice casting rod. I wouldnot mind the fishing/casting sets unless they are extreme. I would becareful with the heat as mine has some delaminations, and I suppose that theglue used was not the heaviest duty sort of stuff. Its maximum value isprobably $250 or so, and the hardware is poor IMHO. It would be a good blankto build a real nice rod from, but I like the classic charm mine has and Iwould leave it alone. Do what you need to fish it, but the sets, ferrules,reel seat, etc...should be good enough to fish.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Need opinions, not rodmaking but is bamboo related Rod redo and value----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------Recently picked up an H-I Tonka Queen for a goodprice at an Antiques market. Planning on redoing it topossibly fish with. Problem is that the butt sectionhas a fishing set in it. While I don't have a problemwith sets in tips, seems to me that a set in the buttsection is just begging to be straightened. I've doneenough straightening to know how to do this. Myproblem is that I know this type of set tends toreturn and the only real solution is to rotate thebutt section so that the new placement of the guidesis opposite the set. However, this means removing theplastic reelseat that is on it. Don't think I'm goingto get this reelseat off in one piece. If I rotate therod and replace the reelseat, ferrules and guides,should I bother leaving the Tonka Queen signature onthe rod? What is going to happen to any value it mighthave? Should I even worry about value? Looking foradvice from anyone that has faced this particulardilemma. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Nov 17 22:41:24 2001 fAI4fNH09774 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:41:23 - Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules fAI4fOH09775 Hi Peter,On the evening of Oct. 30th I had two tips on the samerod deferrule. One ferrule moved about 1/64" as I was showingher how to "properly" seat the ferrules and break the rod down. The other tip mounted up fine and she went ahead and fished the rod for about 2 hours. After getting back to the car I went to break the rods down and had the second ferrule come off in my hand. After that little happening I decided to start to pin ferrules, at the same time I thought "well I'm here and everything is set up...pinthe butt cap on the sliding band seat too." I'm not too sure what was the cause of the failure, wrong solvent,improper fit, improper surface prep, offering prior to casting not up tosnuff, fact that the full moon was raising as we got to the stream,bad karma or a voodoo doll... Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/17/01 at 8:08 PM Peter McKean wrote: Hello, Brad I am fascinated here. Did you start pinning ferrules on a whim, or did you find it necessary. I use a lot of Garrison-style cap and ring reel seats, and while I have yetto encounter a problem, I often look at the whole setup pretty critically;and feel that I ought at least pin the cap. Peter from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Nov 17 23:03:25 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAI53PH10410 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:03:25 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:03:33 -0600 Subject: Phillipson PowerPakt 8 1/2 foot 5 wt Taper, Guide Placement Not long ago I posted this taper, but I went back and re-measured, whilealso getting the guide placement. I've had a couple of requests so I'll justrepost the whole thing. This is a varnished rod, with measurements taken over the varnish. Thevarnish is not especially thick. It looks like it was ammonia toned andglued with resorcinol. It is not impregnated. Wrapped with bright yellownylon with black tipping. A really lovely rod to cast. Inches Avg of the 3 from End Flat-to-flatOf Tiptop MeasurementsLoop Just below wrap at base of tiptop 0.0785 0.09910 0.11215 0.13520 0.15125 0.15430 0.16032 3/8, above ferrule wrap 0.16235 estimated 0.17736, below ferrule wrap 0.17940 0.19545 0.21250 0.22655 0.24260 0.24165 0.24366 3/8, above ferrule wrap 0.24770, just below ferrule wrap 0.27075 0.28980 0.29985 0.31490 0.33991 1/8, above wrap at winding chk 0.36691 5/8 - cork begins95 0.375?100 0.375?102 0.375? Guide placement, inches from end of tiptop loop:5 3/811 1/21825 1/432 1/2 (at top end of ferrule)36 1/4 (at bottom end of ferrule)44 1/452 1/462 7/8Stripping guide at 72 5/8 Barry Kling from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 17 23:24:34 2001 fAI5OUH10863 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:24:31 - Subject: Re: Discribe these rod actions It's just one of those rods a lot of people like to use as soon as they try it. The exact reason is hard to determine though Adam has pretty much doneit.It's a recent taper and WC is still alive but it deserves classic status IMHO. Tony At 07:27 AM 11/17/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: Jerry,When you ask for a 7' 4wt on this list you are apt to get a bunch ofresponses that recommend the Sir D/WC 7'4wt. Let me see, objectively therodis light in hand and not to soft or stiff. Now subjectively guys who castgraphite find it very nice to cast. It has a slight parabolic feel but it isnot full flexing type of rod. It can cast in the right hands almost thewhole line on the lawn. But I would not recommend trying to set a hook atthat distance on the water. It cast well up close and handles fish verynicely with some authority. About the only draw back is when you make thisrod several of your other rods will sit in the closet and get lonely. It is a favorite. And for what it is worth I find the rod medium actionusing the upper half of the rod to cast and with a butt that only kicks inwhen called on to so. Adam Vigil Jerry wroteI need help choosing the taper of my new rod. I want a 7' for a four.It is impossible for me to cast them all, your input will be appreciated.Are these tapers fast, slow, stiff butted, soft tip? Please try to beobjective /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Sun Nov 18 02:29:19 2001 fAI8TIH13001 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 02:29:18 - AAA21332 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 00:29:26 - CAA07903 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 02:25:45 - fAI8PmM20894 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 00:25:49 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 00:25:45 -0800 Subject: forms If you multiply your hourly wage times the hours it takes to make yourforms, add in the cost of the material, bolts and tools to make the forms,you then have the true cost of home made forms. Time is money or ouremployers wouldn't pay us for the time that we work. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 18 04:46:11 2001 fAIAk5H14361 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 04:46:09 - fAIAjr221159; Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel Barry I don't necessarily think that this is the "best" time to remove the enamel,but I do it when I am about to final plane. I find that if I don't removethe projections associated with the nodes prior to planing it is impossibleto get accurate measurements anywhere around the nodes. I set my Lie Nielsen scraping plane to the thickness of a cigarette paper( incidentally, I am a non-smoker, and boy, do I get some funny looks at thetobacconist when I buy the papers. The proprietor seems to think I am theoldest pot smoker in the world ) and get rid of the nodal humps. That seems to me to be an appropriate time to make a pass or two and getrid of the enamel haze. With the plane set so fine, I really find it hard tobelieve that I am doing any harm to the power fibres. Apart from anythingelse, if you still have enamel on your strips, then you are measuring it aspart of the working substance of the rod, which I don't think you ought todo. .02 c Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 18 05:02:29 2001 fAIB2RH14748 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 05:02:27 - fAIB2WD23379 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:02:33 Subject: rough planing I have been meaning to fit this into a post for some time, but until nowhaven't got around to it. I may well be the only one who has this problem. I just KNOW that none ofyou blokes who run these Bonsai pulp mills in your basements would EVERhavesuch an annoying irregularity, but I am a hand-planer, and I surely do. When the strips have been through the primary rough form, and are startingtheir stint in the 60 degree untapered forms, does anyone find that theyhave a bit of trouble bringing the triangles down from a very elongatedisosceles triangle to the equilateral shape they are aiming at? Usually happens to me where I have gotten a bit carried away with myhand- splitting and split the strips a wee bit thin (sheer bloody greed, Iknow), and they have a very annoying tendency to twist and lie flat inthe groove. It actually gets to be a bit nip and tuck whether you run out ofstrip before you get the 60 degree angles. A year ago or so, I sort of worked out a fix for the problem, which is sosimple that I guess everyone knows it, but which works very well for me inany case. What I do is flip the strip onto the enamel side, pith side up, and get intoit with a block plane and plane away the pith until I have a strip which iswider than it is deep. Then flip it back again, and go on with the normalplaning. So far, so good. Hope it helps Peter from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Sun Nov 18 05:24:31 2001 fAIBOQH15122 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 05:24:30 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:24:26 +1100 Subject: Re: rough planing FILETIME=[951915E0:01C17023] Peter: Do you mean lying the strip on your bench on its back (enamelside) and then go at it? It seems like a good idea. Are you planingsoaked cane at this point? Sean Peter McKean wrote: I have been meaning to fit this into a post for some time, but until nowhaven't got around to it. I may well be the only one who has this problem. I just KNOW that none ofyou blokes who run these Bonsai pulp mills in your basements would EVERhavesuch an annoying irregularity, but I am a hand-planer, and I surely do. When the strips have been through the primary rough form, and arestartingtheir stint in the 60 degree untapered forms, does anyone find that theyhave a bit of trouble bringing the triangles down from a very elongatedisosceles triangle to the equilateral shape they are aiming at? Usually happens to me where I have gotten a bit carried away with myhand- splitting and split the strips a wee bit thin (sheer bloody greed, Iknow), and they have a very annoying tendency to twist and lie flat inthe groove. It actually gets to be a bit nip and tuck whether you run out ofstrip before you get the 60 degree angles. A year ago or so, I sort of worked out a fix for the problem, which is sosimple that I guess everyone knows it, but which works very well for me inany case. What I do is flip the strip onto the enamel side, pith side up, and get intoit with a block plane and plane away the pith until I have a strip which iswider than it is deep. Then flip it back again, and go on with the normalplaning. So far, so good. Hope it helps Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Nov 18 05:31:31 2001 fAIBVTH15459 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 05:31:29 - fAIBVVd26648; Subject: Re: forms "Pay us"? "PAY US"? What's this "Pay us"? Peter from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 18 06:50:26 2001 fAICoPH16428 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 06:50:25 - Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golfshafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sun Nov 18 08:02:05 2001 fAIE25H17239 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:02:05 - fAIEEAWt027706 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:14:10 -0600 Subject: RE: forms I'm on salary so my time at home is free. I did ask my dad about why hespent so much time making something when he could go buy it for a lot lessthan a wage/hour ratio. He said son, you might be right, but if I buy itthat is less money in my pocket and if I make it that is time well spent. My budget doesn't include bamboo fly rod making material, it has to come outof my monthly gas/lunch/mad money. So I can use my lunch money, or I canuse a Saturday afternoon. I would agree that if I could work on thoseSaturday afternoons for $$$ my wage/hour ratio would say buy the formsbutwhen my Saturday wage/hour ratio is zero then making them is what Iconsiderthe best bang for the buck. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message----- Subject: forms If you multiply your hourly wage times the hours it takes to make yourforms, add in the cost of the material, bolts and tools to make the forms,you then have the true cost of home made forms. Time is money or ouremployers wouldn't pay us for the time that we work. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 18 08:04:16 2001 fAIE4FH17456 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:04:15 - Subject: RE: rough planing, Flattening pith I use the Hand Mill, but you remonded me of a thought (yes) I had last week.I noticed that sometimes the HM has trouble with tear out at the nodes andfollowing a strip that is not dead straight. If I take the flat cutter andplane the strips flat to just about the final depth it serves a fewpurposes. One, I get a visual cue as to when I am almost done. Two it givesme strips that are easier to take out of the HM and straighten again. Three,it saves the edges on the upper end of the cutters so that I do buttsections first and get started on grips and such while the tips are soakingor whatever. Four, less cutting surface means less effort. Five, it iseasier to measure with a flat pith sides.I should add:I striaghten and flatten before roughing the strips into non tapered lengthsin the JW Beveller. I soak. I plane the strips wet and taper before heattreating.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: rough planing What I do is flip the strip onto the enamel side, pith side up, and get intoit with a block plane and plane away the pith until I have a strip which iswider than it is deep. Then flip it back again, and go on with the normalplaning. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Nov 18 08:42:45 2001 fAIEgiH18722 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:42:44 - IAA24244 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:42:52 Subject: RE: Forms If I knew then... I'd make wooden forms, make a few rods, then save my pennies and buysome decent steel forms. I have no serious metalworking skills, andif you make some drilling mistakes, maybe break a tap or two, you aregoing to have a pretty miserable time and end up with a piece of junk. Just because somebody wants to try to make their own cane rod, doesn'tmean they want or need to make their own planing form. There's no necessary connection.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 18 08:54:13 2001 fAIEsCH19071 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:54:12 - helo=g2t8c9) id 165TKu-0001zi-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 06:54:20 -0800 Subject: rough planning and flattening pith The roughing forms account for so many problems with angles. I have learnedto get away from having problems controlling angles is to start from aconsistent point in my planning. This is a few more strokes with a plane butit is worth it. I plane off the pith until it is flat. I plane both edges ofthe strip until they are at about 85- 90* to the enamel. Then when you placethe strip into your form you start making passes and flipping. Quick enoughthe 60* appears and no more chasing angles with the roughing form. I nowusea roughing beveller and prepare the strips in the same manner beforesendingthem through. If you use this method you can get rid of the 1st form and 2nd form ala WC.You can go right to your finishing forms and do all your roughing on thebutt section side. The only thing I use my roughing form for now is as aholder for sanding off the enamel when .040 oversized. None of the above was my original thought some of it came from the planningform and some from my good friend rodmaker Mike Shay...Hi Mike! Try it, you'll like it. Adam Vigil from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 09:45:00 2001 fAIFiwH19801 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:44:59 - Subject: RE: forms It always strikes me as strange when somebody equates their worth in $$ based on their job or career especially when you consider nobody should consider anything to be permanent and the chairman of the board today may be loosing his shirt for some reason not necessarily his fault next week or even and I hate to say this may not be alive next week. It happens.That is making the huge assumption you are earning that $$ amount whennot at the desk or whatever which isn't actually the case. If it is how much is time worth sleeping, eating, personal pursuits of all kinds, etc, etc?I worked for a guy once and invited him on a sailing trip which I knew he wanted to do because he kept asking to go. When I told him the trip was on and it was a two dayer this guy literally got his calculator and worked the value of the trip based on the time he'd be away on his hrly rate. He declined because the break even point was short of what I could GARUNTEE the time away would be. I watched him RUN through the office one day for some reason and I quipped I'd have though Glen would have paid someone else to run through the office for him.The really weird point of this is I know all he did on the end of the trip was a few hrs at work then watched the cricket and mowed the lawn whichhe does to keep "fit". I guess his lawn must be worth about $200,000 if he's mowed it every weekend for the last 20 years based on his salary.Make your forms if you have time. Tony At 08:02 AM 11/18/01 -0600, Darrin Curtis wrote: I'm on salary so my time at home is free. I did ask my dad about why hespent so much time making something when he could go buy it for a lot lessthan a wage/hour ratio. He said son, you might be right, but if I buy itthat is less money in my pocket and if I make it that is time well spent. My budget doesn't include bamboo fly rod making material, it has to comeoutof my monthly gas/lunch/mad money. So I can use my lunch money, or Icanuse a Saturday afternoon. I would agree that if I could work on thoseSaturday afternoons for $$$ my wage/hour ratio would say buy the formsbutwhen my Saturday wage/hour ratio is zero then making them is what Iconsiderthe best bang for the buck. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 2:26 AM Subject: forms If you multiply your hourly wage times the hours it takes to make yourforms, add in the cost of the material, bolts and tools to make the forms,you then have the true cost of home made forms. Time is money or ouremployers wouldn't pay us for the time that we work. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 10:31:08 2001 fAIGV7H20553 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:31:07 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:31:13 -0500 Subject: Re:forms PatrickThat is a common saying. Time is money.In most cases its true .But were it is true, is when the employer pays an employee. If I pay a guy to help me make rods, then yes time is money.My money ,his time. Since I'm paying for time I want it to be a short as =possible.:))or if someone pays me, time is money, so I want to go as slow as =possible :))In the job world this holds true. In the Bamboo world it's a different =story.I work for myself. So time is not money. I don't pay anyone, so I'm not =under pressure to go fast. Plus if I paid myself by the hour, the =business would take a huge loss. Here's why : ($20 an hour and too many =hours)No one pays themselves minimum wage.:))So My only expense is material, tooling, advertising. Time is Free, = this keeps quality to a high standard. I still get paid. but if I run =into a problem I'm not under pressure to perform.I guess it is a matter of how you look at it:)) I 'm sure I don't make =any less than the maker who pretends to pay himself a $20 an hour =salary.the only difference is I'm not as disappointed when I take a =loss,because there is no perceived loss. Does this make sense to anyone? =:))best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} PatrickThat is a common saying. Time is money.In most cases its true .But were it is true, is when the employer pays an employee. If I pay a guy to help me make rods, then yes time is money.My money ,his time. Since I'm paying for time I want it to be a = possible.:))or if someone pays me, time is money, so I want to go as slow as = :))In the job world this holds true. In the Bamboo world it's a = story.I work for myself. So time is not money. I don't pay anyone, so I'm = under pressure to go fast. Plus if I paid myself by the hour, the = take a huge loss. Here's why : ($20 an hour and too many hours)No one pays themselves minimum wage.:)) this keeps quality to a high standard. I still get paid. but if I = a problem I'm not under pressure to perform. any less than the maker who pretends to pay himself a $20 an hour =salary.the only difference is I'm not as disappointed when I take a = there is no perceived loss. Does this make sense to anyone? :))best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Nov 18 10:40:33 2001 fAIGeRH20905 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:40:27 - Subject: Tru Test rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I have a rod marked Tru Test on the blank and I was wondering who made this rod. I thought someone had told me it was H&I but I am not sure I was getting ready to rewrap it and wanted to maybe do it as close as possible to original. The original color was kind of a tannish gold? Anyone know the parentage of this rod?Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) I have a rod marked Tru someone had told me it was H&I but I am not sure I was getting ready to parentage of this rod?Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 18 10:52:38 2001 fAIGqcH21405 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:52:38 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:17:11 -0600 Subject: Re: forms Time is money or ouremployers wouldn't pay us for the time that we work. True, but does that really apply to rodmaking? If you want to do somethingwhere "time is money" really applies, then you'd be better off forgettingthe rodmaking and spending all that tool money on continuing education, andthe time in classrooms. I know many out there have quite extensiveeducations and if they wanted to make money, they wouldn't be spendingtheirtime making rods. Time??? Spend a few days making forms, a few weeksmaking a rod, a decade or more building up your reputation, then making 20to 40 rods a year to sell, travelling to untold numbers of shows, flyfishingfairs, Conclaves, and such to make your face and your rods known???? Isthat time well spent? Nope... better be making cane rods because you lovemaking cane rods, not because you think "time is money". This year I soldmore rods than I ever have. last year was a record before this one. I'mworking on building a new shop and home, hopefully by next year, but rightnow I live in an 1150 Sq Ft home in a town where cost of living is as cheapas it gets. (someone out there that knows me want to tell those aspiring tobe rich rodmakers about the piece of s#!t Isuzu Trooper I drive?) If itweren't for a couple of other sources of income (Military retirement Check,and another monthly income) I wouldn't even consider doing this fulltime.Trust me, in this craft, time is NOT necessarily money, it just timespent doing something that I enjoy doing... and it does pay for the fishingtrips and hospital bills for my mishaps. If I wanted a different or betterlifestyle, I'd go back to OWC and say, "Hey, you guys need another PlantEngineer?", but I like what I do, and I do it because I love it, not because"Time is Money" Think about it. If I have a record year next year, andmake, say, 50 rods... wow... on the average $1100 each... OK... after partsand culling out bamboo, lets say I net $850 each... total net $42,500... Notbad, for a small town boy, OK, now I went to only 5 events this year, andthat doesn't include my trips to Grayling and SRG... I average about $1000per trip on the shows (I don't like to eat cheap, usually, and I do stay innice hotels most of the time), actually spent about $2000 on the Federationtrip this year, so there goes $8000, down to $34,500, next year, I plan tomake at least 2 more shows and two more gatherings, taking my net "beforetaxes" down to around $30,000.. OK, you guys that do this legit know thatgood old Uncle Sam is going to get at least a third of that from those of uswho are self employeed (and at these income rates, you can't afford toinvest in any tax shelters)... down to $20,000. Out of that, you havethings like TU Banquets, Fly Club meetings and benefits, Fundraisers youwill NO DOUBT participate in, fishing trips with customers and potentialcustomers, I have to take a week long trip to Colorado in the spring tospend fishing time with a shop owner there that wants to carry my rods, sothat's another $1000 at least... all these little things add up... down toabout $15,000. Now, there's wear and tear on equipment, things that needtobe replaced, files, drill bits, sandpaper, general shop supplies... Ifyou're LUCKY, making 50 rods, that won't be more than $1000 or so... Downto $14,000. OK, to NET that 14 grand, I would have built 50 rods... 30 to40 hours per rod, that makes me working full time in the shop. Lets takethe low end, 30 hours. That's 1560 hours spent in the shop next yearmaking50 rods. Wow... Guess What? If my dream goal of 50 rods hits next year,I'll make a whole $8.97 an hour making rods!!! That's only if everythinggoes perfect and I only spend 30 hours per rod. If it averages 40 hours???I'll make a whopping $6.73 an hour. Now, I'm fortunate in that I haveHealth and Dental care paid for... if you have to buy that, count on bringthat "net after taxes" on 50 rods down to under $10,000, or less than $5.00per hour. By the time you finish paying your accountant, who you can barelyafford, you won't ever see minimum wage!!! BTW, you can easily keeprodmaking time down to under 35 hours... in most cases even under 30hours... all it takes is $20,000 plus in equipment so you can save thattime... Want to get really quick, build a bamboo mill. John Zimny will backme on this... easy $15M to $20M investment by the time you get itfinished... high precision parts are NOT cheap.So, if you REALLY think time is money, then your time would be betterspent flipping hamburgers at McDonalds... at least they have health benefitsand such. Work 40 hours a week for the Big Red Headed Clown and you canbuy8 or 10 fine rods by reputable makers every year... assuming of course, thatyour spouse doesn't mind being the main wage earner in the house, paying allthe bills so you can blow your money on fly rods... Better be doing this "The only rich rodmaker I ever met was born rich, and he blew most of hismoney trying to make better rods!" Personally, I like being a poorrodmaker and wouldn't give it up for anything in the world. Some of us arejust gluttons for punishment I guess. *S*Before some points this out, yes, the great rodmakers of the past andthe trade rod companies did make a very good living building rods... butback then, Bamboo was IT... before fiberglass came onto the market, therewasn't any real competition for bamboo fly rods. EVERYONE that flyfished,fished bamboo. Not the case these days. We cater to a very exclusivemarket. Back out to the shop to earn my $7 an hour (oh, forgot to mention, you don'tget weekends and holidays off either and you can't afford to pay yourselfOvertime wages. $7 an hour if I work 10 hours this week or if I work 80) Later,Bob (who no longer believes time is money) from jerryy@webtv.net Sun Nov 18 11:06:04 2001 fAIH64H22025 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:06:04 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA16754; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:06:09 - ETAtAhQvcM4luTIGwJi0Mm1ESYxn4BHbQAIVAKUbP7tjPJ0CSAoX1DJ8O93xwygN Subject: Re: forms 2001 10:50:20 -0600 Well said Bob.........but you forgot to include the rods you're expectedto donate for the fishing clubs fund raising dinner. Jerry Young from darrell@vFish.net Sun Nov 18 11:07:37 2001 fAIH7aH22233 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:07:36 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:07:35 -0600 , Subject: RE: Tru Test W&M made trade rods called True Action... Perhaps this is another model? Does the rod have a hook keeper? Is the name rubber stamped on thebamboo?What do the ferrules look like? If it is a WM Granger type rod, then you need the tan/pongee silk. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 U.S. Toll-Free Order Line (877) 452-2420 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Tru Test I have a rod marked Tru Test on the blank and I was wondering who madethis rod. I thought someone had told me it was H&I but I am not sure I wasgetting ready to rewrap it and wanted to maybe do it as close as possible tooriginal. The original color was kind of a tannish gold? Anyone know theparentage of this rod?Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) W&M made trade rods called True Action... Perhaps this is = model? the rod have a hook keeper? Is the name rubber stamped on the bamboo? = the ferrules look like? is a WM Granger type rod, then you need the tan/pongee =silk. Regards,Darrell LeeAnglers 452- Grhghlndr@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 TestI = marked Tru Test on the blank and I was wondering who made this = thought someone had told me it was H&I but I am not sure I was = know the parentage of this rod?Bret(www.homestead.co=m/bambooovens/home.html) from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sun Nov 18 11:27:19 2001 fAIHRIH23158 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:27:18 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:27:25 - Subject: Forms/time etc. Here was my point: I don't want to be a "form maker." I want to make fly rods.I own a fly shop and this is an extension of my interest and business. =When starting out, I thought that it made more sense, "experientially," =to spend that 20 hours learning the nuances of working with cane rather =than the nuances of cold rolled steel. In that respect, yes time was =money for me. It made more sense for me to put out the few hundred =dollars for a set of forms rather than put out money for tooling to make =forms, plus time in making a set that may or may not come out to the =standard that I needed.If I was a hobbyist, or this was just a part time venture for me, then =it would have made sense to make my forms for the experience of that. Each of us must decide for ourselves what is best in OUR situation. we =can take advice from others, but the decision is ultimately each of ours =to make. John K Here was my point: I don't want to be a "form = make fly rods.I own a fly shop and this is an = sense, "experientially," to spend that 20 hours learning the nuances of = hundred dollars for a set of forms rather than put out money for tooling = forms, plus time in making a set that may or may not come out to the = that I needed.If I was a hobbyist, or this was just a = venture for me, then it would have made sense to make my forms for experience of that. Each of us must decide for ourselves = ultimately each of ours to make. JohnK from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sun Nov 18 11:34:46 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAIHYkH23629 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:34:46 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:34:54 -0600 Subject: RE: Forms Thank you for saying that, Frank. I want to make bamboo flyrods, not metaltools. I understand that some people enjoy making their own tools, but tomake a fetish out of home made planning forms, while using planes andlathesand lots of other manufactured tools, is completely arbitrary. What aboutthose people who use store-bought sharpening stones instead of going outandgouging them from the very breast of nature, and then hand grinding a flatsurface into the stone, like us real craftsmen? I can tell you, there'snothing like the feeling of sharpening your store-bought Hock plane blade ona stone you flattened yourself, and the resulting flyrods - well, if youhaven't done this, you really don't know what you're missing. Not that I begrudge anyone the enjoyment of making them if he or she enjoysit. I started with wood planning forms because they are cheap and I wasn'tsure yet how far I wanted to go with this, so I've had the experience ofmaking rods on a form I built. But all these implications that home madeforms add some dimension to rodmaking missed by those who buy them aresillyposturing that serves only to discourage people interested primarily inbamboo rods rather than metal taps and the rewards of repetitive filing. IMHO, of course. And if I've insulted anyone on the list, I love you all.Like brothers and sisters (as appropriate). I learned that from Adam (thankyou, Adam). Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Forms If I knew then... I'd make wooden forms, make a few rods, then save my pennies and buysome decent steel forms. I have no serious metalworking skills, andif you make some drilling mistakes, maybe break a tap or two, you aregoing to have a pretty miserable time and end up with a piece of junk. Just because somebody wants to try to make their own cane rod, doesn'tmean they want or need to make their own planing form. There's no necessary connection.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rmoon@ida.net Sun Nov 18 12:02:24 2001 fAII2NH24784 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:02:23 - 0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2)Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 Subject: Re: rough planing Peter--That is an excellant tip. I have been doing it for a long time, but I wish somebody had told me sooner and i would not have ruined so many tip strips. I don't think that I have ever seen it on the list before.Ralph Peter McKean wrote: I have been meaning to fit this into a post for some time, but until nowhaven't got around to it. I may well be the only one who has this problem. I just KNOW that none ofyou blokes who run these Bonsai pulp mills in your basements would EVERhavesuch an annoying irregularity, but I am a hand-planer, and I surely do. When the strips have been through the primary rough form, and arestartingtheir stint in the 60 degree untapered forms, does anyone find that theyhave a bit of trouble bringing the triangles down from a very elongatedisosceles triangle to the equilateral shape they are aiming at? Usually happens to me where I have gotten a bit carried away with myhand- splitting and split the strips a wee bit thin (sheer bloody greed, Iknow), and they have a very annoying tendency to twist and lie flat inthe groove. It actually gets to be a bit nip and tuck whether you run out ofstrip before you get the 60 degree angles. A year ago or so, I sort of worked out a fix for the problem, which is sosimple that I guess everyone knows it, but which works very well for me inany case. What I do is flip the strip onto the enamel side, pith side up, and get intoit with a block plane and plane away the pith until I have a strip which iswider than it is deep. Then flip it back again, and go on with the normalplaning. So far, so good. Hope it helps Peter . -- WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com SunNov 18 13:19:52 2001 Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:17:17 -0600 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] caneman@clnk.com, "'rodmakers'" Subject: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Yeah Bob, Like that nice oneyou donated to SRG!! Harry Jerry Young wrote: Well said Bob.........but you forgot to include the rods you're expectedto donate for the fishing clubs fund raising dinner. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Sun Nov 18 13:25:16 2001 fAIJPBH27960 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:25:11 - 0000 Subject: Re: forms Bob,It probably wouldn't be such a piece of s#!t if you didn't keep leaving deadanimals in the back of it ; ) tom Snip as it gets. (someone out there that knows me want to tell those aspiring to be rich rodmakers about the piece of s#!t Isuzu Trooper I drive?) If itweren't for a couple of other sources of income (Military retirement Check,Snip from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Sun Nov 18 13:30:35 2001 fAIJUYH28425 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:30:34 - 0000 Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules Hello, Here's what I don't get about pinning. If a glue joint is going to fail(for whatever reason), it is going to have to be repaired. Isn't pinninggoing to make it difficult. A glue joint will most likely fail regardlessif it is pinned or not, so why bother? Tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules Hi Peter,On the evening of Oct. 30th I had two tips on the samerod deferrule. One ferrule moved about 1/64" as I was showingher how to "properly" seat the ferrules and break the rod down.The other tip mounted up fine and she went ahead and fished therod for about 2 hours. After getting back to the car I went to breakthe rods down and had the second ferrule come off in my hand.After that little happening I decided to start to pin ferrules, at thesame time I thought "well I'm here and everything is set up...pinthe butt cap on the sliding band seat too." I'm not too sure what was the cause of the failure, wrong solvent,improper fit, improper surface prep, offering prior to casting not up tosnuff, fact that the full moon was raising as we got to the stream,bad karma or a voodoo doll... Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/17/01 at 8:08 PM Peter McKean wrote: Hello, Brad I am fascinated here. Did you start pinning ferrules on a whim, or did you find it necessary. I use a lot of Garrison-style cap and ring reel seats, and while I have yet to encounter a problem, I often look at the whole setup pretty critically; and feel that I ought at least pin the cap. Peter from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 18 13:41:02 2001 fAIJf1H29109 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:41:01 - (authenticated) Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:40:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Forms "Kling, Barry W." wrote: I can tell you, there's nothing like the feeling of sharpening yourstore-bought Hock plane blade on a stone you flattened yourself, and theresulting flyrods - well, if you haven't done this, you really don't know whatyou're missing. Barry, I don't use Hock blades, or waterstones. I use carbide tipped bladessharpened on a leather wheel. Yes, I skinned the cow myself. Skinned it withahome-made knife hand knapped from flint. Tanned the hide myself. Chewedthatsucker till it was soft.And yes, I mined and refined the carbide and iron myself. Forged it in ahome- made charcoal forge. Hammered it out with an 8 lb. sledge.I do use an electric motor to turn the wheel. But my electricity comesfromwind-power from a home-made windmill. Sometimes getting the denaturedalcoholto burn in my lamp gets tricky. Takes lots of corn to get that muchsqueezin's! Some of it just naturally finds its way into Mason jars. Just kidding, about all the above. Mypoint in a previous post was that we don't have to build forms that aresuitable harderthan necessary. I have zero metal working skills, but still managed to makedecent forms.We're building fishing poles, not jeweled Swiss watches. Sometimes thestart-up inertia is so great that we are through before we ever start. The methods and tools we use are choices we make. Often young guysstartingout don't have much cash to invest. If funds are limited, I think we might bebetter off saving the money spent on forms for high quality components. Harry-- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Nov 18 13:56:55 2001 fAIJusH29944 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:56:54 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:56:55 - Subject: Cost of ferrules (Was: Forms) My biggest pet peeve as far as components are concerned is the lack of amid quality ferrule. Most of the experimental tapers I make don't need a $50.00 nickel silver ferrule and with the multi section tapers I'm working on now the cost of ferrules can run me $250.00 for one rod. The low cost brassones I got a long time ago were too low quality, and didn't come in the right sizes I was looking for. There are low, mid and high quality reel seats, cork handles, and guides. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and start making my own.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/18/01 11:42:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Deleted for the archive police , I think we might bebetter off saving the money spent on forms for high quality components. My biggest pet peeve as far as components are concerned is the lack ofa mid quality ferrule. Most of the experimental tapers I make don't need a$50.00 nickel silver ferrule and with the multi section tapers I'm working onnow the cost of ferrules can run me $250.00 for one rod. The low cost brassones I got a long time ago were too low quality, and didn't come in the rightsizes I was looking for. There are low, mid and high quality reel seats, cork handles, and guides. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and start making my own.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/18/01 11:42:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Deleted for the archive police , I think wemight bebetter off saving the money spent on forms for high qualitycomponents. from darrell@vFish.net Sun Nov 18 14:04:42 2001 fAIK4gH00557 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:04:42 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:04:50 -0600 Subject: Kosmic White Ivoriod reelseat Awhile back, I saw someone selling a reelseat with the white spacerreminiscent of the Kosmic reel seat... Has anyone seen it and know where I could find out more or obtain one? Thanks, Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Nov 18 14:13:40 2001 fAIKDdH01062 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:13:39 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:13:35 -0800 Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:13:35 GMT petermckean@netspace.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Pinning ferrules FILETIME=[80A30CC0:01C1706D] If you are on a fishing expedition to a long planned location and the epoxied ferrule gives up you will have to figure out how to repair it in the field. If it was pinned you can keep on fishing. If the ferrule was ferrule cemented and pinned you can almost always reheat the ferrule with a matchor a lighter and the cement will rebond to remove the click, again you are still fishing. Now, remove youself from the above and substitute 'a customer'. Even more important to do all you can to keep the rod fishing until it can be sent in for repair.A.J. From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Subject: Re: Pinning ferrulesDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:32:26 -0500 Hello, Here's what I don't get about pinning. If a glue joint is going to fail(for whatever reason), it is going to have to be repaired. Isn't pinninggoing to make it difficult. A glue joint will most likely fail regardlessif it is pinned or not, so why bother? Tom ----- Original Message -----From: Brad Love Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:40 PMSubject: Re: Pinning ferrules Hi Peter,On the evening of Oct. 30th I had two tips on the samerod deferrule. One ferrule moved about 1/64" as I was showingher how to "properly" seat the ferrules and break the rod down.The other tip mounted up fine and she went ahead and fished therod for about 2 hours. After getting back to the car I went to breakthe rods down and had the second ferrule come off in my hand.After that little happening I decided to start to pin ferrules, at thesame time I thought "well I'm here and everything is set up...pinthe butt cap on the sliding band seat too." I'm not too sure what was the cause of the failure, wrong solvent,improper fit, improper surface prep, offering prior to casting not up tosnuff, fact that the full moon was raising as we got to the stream,bad karma or a voodoo doll... Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/17/01 at 8:08 PM Peter McKean wrote: Hello, Brad I am fascinated here. Did you start pinning ferrules on a whim, or did you find it necessary. I use a lot of Garrison-style cap and ring reel seats, and while I have yet to encounter a problem, I often look at the whole setup pretty critically; and feel that I ought at least pin the cap. Peter _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 14:16:13 2001 fAIKGDH01407 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:16:13 -0600 helo=default) id 165YMX-0001Tr-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:16:21 -0500 Subject: Re: forms Especially well appointed, wasn't it? And that orangish color -- must havebeen the shellac. M-D Yeah Bob, Like that nice one you donated to SRG!! Harry Jerry Young wrote: Well said Bob.........but you forgot to include the rods you're expectedto donate for the fishing clubs fund raising dinner. from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 14:32:03 2001 fAIKW2H02155 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:32:02 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:32:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules TomWhat convinced me was the thought of a ferrule coming of in the hands of =a customer on his big fishing trip to say Montana.:))Your right it will still have to be repaired, but odds are the guy isn't =gonna loose the other end of the rod in the Madison river.Pins go in and come out easy if you have the right tools.With all the competition out there ,what are the odds that guy is coming = The ferrule will come loose, but not off.2 scenario's A:Guy calls and says ferrule is loose you tell him to send = and you will repair it for no charge and send it back.Result : satisfied customer/ you took care of him = B: Guy calls and says ferrule fell off, tip is lost to = you say I'll make a new tip, which costs you more =materials ,time. Mean while he wants his rod and fishing season is =coming to a close. and he says "is this normal for ferrules to fall =completely off".Result: you have a big problem instead of a small =one.While he comes to me for his next rod =because I pin my ferrules and that just makes him feel better:)) Just =joking:))Sure its not gonna stop the glue from failing, but you won't look bad =when it does. And from what I'm told sooner or later I'll have a ferrule =fail.would you say the odds are against me or for me if I don't pin?Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} TomWhat convinced me was the thought of a ferrule coming of in the = customer on his big fishing trip to say Montana.:))Your right it will still have to be repaired, but odds are the guy = gonna loose the other end of the rod in the Madison river.Pins go in and come out easy if you have the right tools.With all the competition out there ,what are the odds that guy is = back to you.:)) The ferrule will come loose, but not off. Result : satisfied customer/ you took care of him you say I'll make a new tip, which costs you more materials ,time. Mean = wants his rod and fishing season is coming to a close. and he says "is = normal for ferrules to fall completely off". Result: you have a big problem instead of a small one. just makes him feel better:)) Just joking:))Sure its not gonna stop the glue from failing, but you won't look = it does. And from what I'm told sooner or later I'll have a ferrule =fail.would you say the odds are against me or for me if I don't =pin?Best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 14:40:38 2001 fAIKecH02598 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:40:38 -0600 helo=default) id 165YkA-000246-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:40:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Cost of ferrules (Was: Forms) Darryl, M-D My biggest pet peeve as far as components are concerned is the lack of = SNIP That's okay. It'll never make it to the archives anyway. It's written =in HTML. Darryl, You might check withTom = M-D DNHayashida@aol.com My biggest pet peeve as far as components are concerned is = of a mid quality ferrule. SNIP Darryl Hayashida Deleted for the archive police = That's okay. = HTML. from SBDunn@aol.com Sun Nov 18 15:00:43 2001 fAIL0cH03619 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:00:38 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:00:35 - Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules In addition to what AJ said, it seems to me that pinned ferrules would keep the ferrule and rod from "working" the glue bond as hard and allow you to repair it before total failure. Regards, Steve Dunn from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Nov 18 15:19:30 2001 fAILJOH04551 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:19:24 -0600 Subject: Colorado In a message dated 11/18/01 10:54:29 AM Central Standard Time, caneman@clnk.com writes: I have to take a week long trip to Colorado in the spring tospend fishing time with a shop owner there that wants to carry my rods What do you mean "have to" ? No one ever had to twist my arm to get me togo to Colorado and go fishing. Would this be the shop in Buena Vista? Spring, sounds like you are going for the Mother's day Caddis hatch on the Arkansas. I don't know if I'll be in Leadville then but, let me know your travel plans and perhaps we can get together. November 30 is my last day working for ChevronTexaco. It is early retirement and a permanent move to Colorado after selling the House here in Houston. Can't wait. Mark Cole In a message dated 11/18/01 10:54:29 AMCentral Standard Time, caneman@clnk.com writes: I have to take aweek long trip to Colorado in the spring tospend fishing time with a shop owner there that wants to carry myrods had to twist my arm to get me to go to Colorado and go fishing. Would this Spring, sounds like you are going for the Mother's day Caddis hatch onthe Arkansas. I don't know if I'll be in Leadville then but, let me know your day working for ChevronTexaco. It is early retirement and a permanent moveto Colorado after selling the House here in Houston. Can't wait. Mark Cole from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sun Nov 18 16:56:13 2001 fAIMuCH06971 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:56:12 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:56:21 PST Subject: Re:forms Sure, you've got a day job. Bill W.--- Tony Miller wrote: PatrickThat is a common saying. Time is money.In most cases its true .But were it is true, is when the employer pays anemployee. If I pay a guy to help me make rods, then yes timeis money.My money ,his time. Since I'm paying for time I wantit to be a short as possible.:))or if someone pays me, time is money, so I want togo as slow as possible :))In the job world this holds true. In the Bambooworld it's a different story.I work for myself. So time is not money. I don't payanyone, so I'm not under pressure to go fast. Plusif I paid myself by the hour, the business wouldtake a huge loss. Here's why : ($20 an hour and toomany hours)No one pays themselves minimum wage.:))So My only expense is material, tooling,advertising. Time is Free, because I work for myself,for free. this keeps quality to a high standard. I still getpaid. but if I run into a problem I'm not underpressure to perform.I guess it is a matter of how you look at it:)) I 'msure I don't make any less than the maker whopretends to pay himself a $20 an hour salary.the only difference is I'm not as disappointed whenI take a loss,because there is no perceived loss.Does this make sense to anyone? :))best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from lkoeser@ceva.net Sun Nov 18 17:01:40 2001 fAIN1dH07330 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:01:39 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:58:29 -0500 "RodMakers List \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: When to Remove the Enamel I do as you do and find that I have no problem. I use PU and it requireslittle scraping to remove, and leaves a nearly perfect finish to the blank. Lee ----- Original Message ----- Subject: When to Remove the Enamel :Having contributed some frivolous messages recently to the list, I now dopenance by asking a question actually related to bamboo rodmaking. I've studied most of the bamboo rodmaking books from Garrison on, andtheyall assume that the enamel will be left on until after the sections areglued. Some even talk about how, when you finally remove the enamel, youmust suck it up and throw it away if you discover wormholes or other flaws. I have never understood why a person would wait until such a strip waspermanently glued to five other perfectly good strips before taking off the enamel. I have always removed the enamel from the strips prior to planning, and discovered several bad pieces (with flaws hidden under the enamel) that would have ruined a section. By the same token, I've discovered strips with nasty looking marks on the enamel, but absolutely no trace of any flaw just below the enamel. So I wonder what others are doing, and if there is somereason I'm missing for keeping the enamel on until the sections are gluedup. I can think of only two possible reasons to keep the enamel. One is thatglue might not stick as well to enamel, making removal of excess glueeasier. But I've never had a problem with that. I've used Titebond, PU andURAC glues. I do wipe down the glued up section before hanging it up to set (using a rag damp with whichever solvent is right for the glue in question), but I think most everyone does that. The second reason would involve Morgan Hand mill users, whose anvils (fornon-Morganites, the anvil is the high density plastic rail on which thestrip rests while being planed) have slightly concave surfaces toaccommodate the curved outer surface of a bamboo strip. But I've neverhadany trouble with this even with strips having the enamel removed with ascraper plane which makes that surface flat. Of course, anyone concernedwith retaining the curvature can remove the enamel in a way thatpreservesthis - just as they otherwise would have to do when the section was glued.Also, when it comes to tip sections it is much easier to control the removal of enamel on an unplanned strip than on the tiny surfaces left near the tip of a finished section. So....do many of you leave the enamel on until after gluing, have you had to discard glued sections as a result, and is there some reason to retain theenamel that I've missed? Barry from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 18 17:14:02 2001 fAINDvH07901 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:14:01 - (authenticated) for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:13:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules SBDunn@aol.com wrote: it seems to me that pinned ferrules would keepthe ferrule and rod from "working" the glue bond as hard and allow you torepair it before total failure. Just to add to the debate... Some say that when you pin the ferrules, you also drill a hole in thebamboo at what seems to be one of its weaker, most high stress points --perhaps slightly elevating the risk of breakage. Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 17:36:42 2001 fAINabH08679 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:36:37 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:36:43 -0500 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Why do you think it's the weakest point?The stress may be higher at the ferrule.But that doesn't necessarily translate into the weakest part.And rods that break usually break just ahead of the ferrule. The pin is farther up on the ferrule. I've never seen a NS ferrule break =in half.or the cane under it. In front of the ferrule ,YES. It's just like welding two plates together, most people think the weld =is the weakest part. But it's not, it's the metal to either side of the =weld that is the weakest point.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Why do you think it's the weakest point?The stress may be higher at the ferrule.But that doesn't necessarily translate into the weakest part.And rods that break usually break just ahead of the ferrule. The pin is farther up on the ferrule. I've never seen a NS ferrule = half.or the cane under it. In front of the ferrule ,YES.Plus you fill the whole with a pin. It's just like welding two plates together, most people think the = the weakest part. But it's not, it's the metal to either side of the = is the weakest point.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 17:53:06 2001 fAINr4H09237 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:53:05 - Subject: Re: forms Never thought of it last night when I put my .02c in but if you're a busy man work time is in plentiful supply, it's the spare time that's hard to come by. Being hard to come by as it is therefor it's worth a premium over the mere work time of which there is a plethora. If you're on $200 per hr hr. If it's REALLY hard to come by it could be worth as much as $400 per hr but it's only worth that as long as you do what you WANT to be doing.I've made it a goal in life to wind up being worth at least $1500 per week failing but if I answer less phones I think I'll have it made [:-)] Tony At 10:50 AM 11/18/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Time is money or ouremployers wouldn't pay us for the time that we work. True, but does that really apply to rodmaking? If you want to do somethingwhere "time is money" really applies, then you'd be better off forgettingthe rodmaking and spending all that tool money on continuing education, andthe time in classrooms. I know many out there have quite extensiveeducations and if they wanted to make money, they wouldn't be spendingtheirtime making rods. Time??? Spend a few days making forms, a few weeks /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from splitcane@home.com Sun Nov 18 17:59:00 2001 fAINwxH09577 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:59:00 - ;Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:59:08 -0800 Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golfshafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule andheat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and it'sready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexible bondbetween cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat ifneeded. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright &McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success... Take Care, Dave from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 18:00:20 2001 fAJ00IH09734 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:00:19 - Subject: Re: Forms/time etc. True but the forms will take less time to make than a rod. The main thrust of the argument of making forms is if you're too busy to do it have you the time to make rods?It's a true rule of thumb for people who want to build a decent sized boat that it's best to make the tender for the yacht/launch or whatever first. If they don't enjoy or carry through with making the dingy they prob wont build the yacht either for what ever reason. Make them, buy them it doesn't matter in the end. Either way you'll only need them once and making them isn't a waste of time in most cases. One thing it does do is make you understand the significance of and the ability you gain of fine tolerance work. Tony At 12:27 PM 11/18/01 -0500, John Kenealy wrote: Here was my point: I don't want to be a "form maker." I want to make fly rods.I own a fly shop and this is an extension of my interest and business. When starting out, I thought that it made more sense, "experientially," to spend that 20 hours learning the nuances of working with cane rather than the nuances of cold rolled steel. In that respect, yes time was money for me. It made more sense for me to put out the few hundred dollars for a set of forms rather than put out money for tooling to make forms, plus time in making a set that may or may not come out to the standard that I needed.If I was a hobbyist, or this was just a part time venture for me, then it would have made sense to make my forms for the experience of that. Each of us must decide for ourselves what is best in OUR situation. we can take advice from others, but the decision is ultimately each of ours to make. John K /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 18:09:23 2001 fAJ09LH10222 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:09:21 - Subject: Re: Forms You can always make the forms from wood.Cost maybe $25 and take 1/2 day, two at the most. Tony At 01:38 PM 11/18/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: "Kling, Barry W." wrote: I can tell you, there's nothing like the feeling of sharpening yourstore-bought Hock plane blade on a stone you flattened yourself, and theresulting flyrods - well, if you haven't done this, you really don't know what you're missing. Barry, I don't use Hock blades, or waterstones. I use carbide tipped bladessharpened on a leather wheel. Yes, I skinned the cow myself. Skinned it with ahome-made knife hand knapped from flint. Tanned the hide myself. Chewedthatsucker till it was soft. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 18:13:32 2001 fAJ0DTH10534 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:13:30 - Subject: Re: Forms/time etc. That should have been you'll only need to MAKE them once. I could add you'll only need to BUY them once too I guess. Tony Make them, buy them it doesn't matter in the end. Either way you'll only need them once and making them isn't a waste of time in most cases. One thing it does do is make you understand the significance of and the ability you gain of fine tolerance work. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from splitcane@home.com Sun Nov 18 18:22:41 2001 fAJ0MfH10986 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:22:41 - ;Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:22:43 -0800 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: forms Time is money or ouremployers wouldn't pay us for the time that we work. Funny, I do not get paid to watch the Bronco game on Sunday either ( sometimes I think I should [:-)] or to hit the water, I do it because I wantto and enjoy it. It's all relevant and if you want to make your own forms,10 on, it's all good... Take Care, Dave from splitcane@home.com Sun Nov 18 18:42:56 2001 fAJ0guH11678 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:42:56 -0600 ;Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:42:57 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: forms I think it was a red Lacquer finish, wasn't it Bob? I was really impressedwith the custom aluminum ferrules and paper clip tip top... Dave [;-)] Especially well appointed, wasn't it? And that orangish color -- must havebeen the shellac. M-D From: "Harry Boyd"> Yeah Bob, Like that nice one you donated to SRG!! Harry Jerry Young wrote: Well said Bob.........but you forgot to include the rods you're expected to donate for the fishing clubs fund raising dinner. from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 18 18:46:16 2001 fAJ0kGH12001 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:46:16 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: forms Hey, that was a secret varnish formula on that rod... made from ear of bat,eye of newt and the sap from an oak cork, mixed with shark urine and a bitof ****** Almost gave up that secret ingredient! *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: forms Especially well appointed, wasn't it? And that orangish color -- must havebeen the shellac. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Yeah Bob, Like that nice one you donated to SRG!! Harry Jerry Young wrote: Well said Bob.........but you forgot to include the rods you're expected to donate for the fishing clubs fund raising dinner. from homes-sold@home.com Sun Nov 18 18:50:29 2001 fAJ0oSH12321 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:50:28 - femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:50:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Forms I personally prefer wooden over metal forms. I built my wooden forms widerto take full advantage of grooved planes and also have a more stableplatform to work. I see no advantage to metal forms, especially ones make from 3/4 stock.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Forms You can always make the forms from wood.Cost maybe $25 and take 1/2 day, two at the most. Tony from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 18 19:02:40 2001 fAJ12dH12997 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:02:39 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: forms Did ya like that TipTop, Dave? By the way... you're off the hook... Jerryon the other hand! *S* All in fun, Jerry, Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: forms I think it was a red Lacquer finish, wasn't it Bob? I was really impressedwith the custom aluminum ferrules and paper clip tip top... Dave [;-)] From: "Jojo DeLancier" Especially well appointed, wasn't it? And that orangish color -- must have been the shellac. M-D From: "Harry Boyd"> Yeah Bob, Like that nice one you donated to SRG!! Harry Jerry Young wrote: Well said Bob.........but you forgot to include the rods you're expected to donate for the fishing clubs fund raising dinner. from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 18 19:04:54 2001 fAJ14rH13187 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:04:53 - , Subject: RE: forms The secret ingredient is RABBIT, right? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: forms Hey, that was a secret varnish formula on that rod... made from ear of bat,eye of newt and the sap from an oak cork, mixed with shark urine and a bitof ****** Almost gave up that secret ingredient! *S* Later,Bob from caneman@clnk.com Sun Nov 18 19:06:56 2001 fAJ16tH13472 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:06:55 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers List Serve" , Subject: Re: forms Rotted rabbit... must be prepared under proper conditions... hot August sunin a black vehicle, at least 2 days dwell time in a blue Wal Mart plasticbag (kmart bags just don't make it emit the right juices!)... I thoughtnobody would figure out the secret ingredient! :^( Bob The secret ingredient is RABBIT, right? Hey, that was a secret varnish formula on that rod... made from ear of bat, eye of newt and the sap from an oak cork, mixed with shark urine and a bitof ****** Almost gave up that secret ingredient! *S* from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 18 19:12:02 2001 fAJ1C1H13865 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:12:01 - ([209.178.135.52] helo=g2t8c9) id 165cyi-0002vG-00; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:12:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive Pliobond? The contact cement type of stuff? No way! Really? Wow...you learnsomething everyday. Just how strong is that stuff? Adam Vigil from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sun Nov 18 19:13:58 2001 fAJ1DvH14054 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:13:57 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4169. . Clean. Processed in 0.741432 secs); 19 Nov 200101:14:05 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules A pinned ferrule will not "fail" even if the glue lets go provided the ferrulestation is sized properly. A ferrule installed on a properly sized ferrulestation needs no glue if it's pinned. I believe the reverse is also true.Marty Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Hello, Here's what I don't get about pinning. If a glue joint is going to fail(for whatever reason), it is going to have to be repaired. Isn't pinninggoing to make it difficult. A glue joint will most likely fail regardlessif it is pinned or not, so why bother? Tom ----- Original Message -----From: Brad Love Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:40 PMSubject: Re: Pinning ferrules Hi Peter,On the evening of Oct. 30th I had two tips on the samerod deferrule. One ferrule moved about 1/64" as I was showingher how to "properly" seat the ferrules and break the rod down.The other tip mounted up fine and she went ahead and fished therod for about 2 hours. After getting back to the car I went to breakthe rods down and had the second ferrule come off in my hand.After that little happening I decided to start to pin ferrules, at thesame time I thought "well I'm here and everything is set up...pinthe butt cap on the sliding band seat too." I'm not too sure what was the cause of the failure, wrong solvent,improper fit, improper surface prep, offering prior to casting not up tosnuff, fact that the full moon was raising as we got to the stream,bad karma or a voodoo doll... Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/17/01 at 8:08 PM Peter McKean wrote: Hello, Brad I am fascinated here. Did you start pinning ferrules on a whim, or did you find it necessary. I use a lot of Garrison-style cap and ring reel seats, and while I have yet to encounter a problem, I often look at the whole setup pretty critically; and feel that I ought at least pin the cap. Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 19:26:07 2001 fAJ1Q5H14656 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:26:06 - "Rod Makers List Serve" , Subject: Re: forms I remember as a kid getting hrs of chortling at putting prawn shells (shrimp) in the hub caps of the less popular teacher's cars. This was before most cars had aircon and it's HOT where I was living as a kid. You always knew when you hit a bulls eye when the teacher would drive around with the windows up no matter how hot it was :-))) Tony At 07:04 PM 11/18/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Rotted rabbit... must be prepared under proper conditions... hot August sunin a black vehicle, at least 2 days dwell time in a blue Wal Mart plasticbag (kmart bags just don't make it emit the right juices!)... I thoughtnobody would figure out the secret ingredient! :^( Bob The secret ingredient is RABBIT, right? Hey, that was a secret varnish formula on that rod... made from ear of bat, eye of newt and the sap from an oak cork, mixed with shark urine and abitof ****** Almost gave up that secret ingredient! *S* /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 18 19:35:13 2001 fAJ1ZCH15114 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:35:12 - 18 Nov 2001 20:35:13 -0500 Subject: Digger's 2 wt., Needs varnish subtracted Oops, deduct .004-.006 for varnish on that rod I posted last week. I justdouble checked my notes and the rod itself. (I should have realized that,but not having made one yet, I missed it). Varnish is on the thick side. Theoriginal rod even has rather thick varnish on the wraps, could be epoxy.Either way, it fishes like a dream. (The CSE reel seat with bull's eye onthe end cap is one of the nicest most understated looks I have seen).Thanks,Bob from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 19:39:49 2001 fAJ1dmH15540 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:39:49 -0600 helo=default) id 165dPg-0001Nf-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:39:57 -0500 Subject: Re: forms Surely this must be the Aussie equivalent of putting sardines, and theiroil, on the exhaust manifolds of cars. ;o) M-D I remember as a kid getting hrs of chortling at putting prawn shells(shrimp) in the hub caps of the less popular teacher's cars. This wasbefore most cars had aircon and it's HOT where I was living as a kid. Youalways knew when you hit a bulls eye when the teacher would drive aroundwith the windows up no matter how hot it was :-))) Tony At 07:04 PM 11/18/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Rotted rabbit... must be prepared under proper conditions... hot August sun in a black vehicle, at least 2 days dwell time in a blue Wal Mart plasticbag (kmart bags just don't make it emit the right juices!)... I thoughtnobody would figure out the secret ingredient! :^( Bob The secret ingredient is RABBIT, right? from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 19:41:09 2001 fAJ1f8H15737 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:41:08 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:41:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Digger's 2 wt. Oh no! I already glued the blank up LOL :))just kidding:))Tonywww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Oh no! I already glued the blank up LOL :))just kidding:))Tonywww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from bamboorods@saber.net Sun Nov 18 19:43:51 2001 fAJ1hoH16044 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:43:51 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:43:47 - Subject: Airport security Just got back from 2 weeks in Fiji. U.S. airport security and Fiji =Airport security. In San Fran, they made me break off the file on my =small nail clippers. Carried the rod and rod case on the plane. Fly =line and reel were ok. Fiji security checked and rechecked, xrayed and let rod and reels on =plane. Any kind of knife was disallowed. Plastic knives for dinnerware. They let me carry four size 1/0 Chartruse Clowsers in my carry on. Now =THOSE are big and sharp.Go figure. There are no trout in Fiji.Chris Just got back from 2 weeks in = Fiji security checked andrechecked, = let rod and reels on plane. dinnerware. They let me carry four size 1/0 Chartruse Clowsers= Fiji.Chris from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 19:50:19 2001 fAJ1oIH16454 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:50:18 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:50:11 -0500 Subject: Airport security saying "I mean it, if anyone moves, I'm gonna give the pilot a manicure. = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Chris Why do I get this image in my mind of you trying to take over the = manicure. LOL :)) Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 19:56:47 2001 fAJ1ukH16892 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:56:46 -0600 helo=default) id 165dg6-0008RV-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:56:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Airport security You could have linked those big Clousers together with some strong mono =and made a helluva' bolo. Had a weapon and they didn't even know it. M-D They let me carry four size 1/0 Chartruse Clowsers in my carry on. =Now THOSE are big and sharp.Go figure. There are no trout in Fiji.Chris You could have linked = Clousers together with some strong mono and made a helluva' bolo. Had a = M-D Raine They let me carry four size 1/0 Chartruse Clowsers= Fiji.Chris from beadman@mac.com Sun Nov 18 19:59:58 2001 fAJ1xwH17233 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:59:58 - Subject: Re: forms At 7:32 PM -0600 , 11/18/01, Jojo DeLancier wrote about Re: forms Surely this must be the Aussie equivalent of putting sardines, and theiroil, on the exhaust manifolds of cars. ;o) A piece of raw chicken poked up into the exhaust pipe will be "interesting" after several days - or so I read somewhere... I assume some fish viscera would be equally "interesting"... Claude from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 20:06:51 2001 fAJ26pH17835 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:06:51 - helo=default) id 165dpr-0001gq-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:06:59 -0500 Subject: Re: forms Oh my, but we *are* a sick lot. M-D At 7:32 PM -0600 , 11/18/01, Jojo DeLancier wrote about Re: forms Surely this must be the Aussie equivalent of putting sardines, and theiroil, on the exhaust manifolds of cars. ;o) A piece of raw chicken poked up into the exhaust pipe will be "interesting" after several days - or so I read somewhere... I assume some fish viscera would be equally "interesting"... Claude from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 20:16:13 2001 fAJ2GDH18388 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:16:13 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:16:16 -0500 Subject: cold medicine Maybe i shouldn't have drank that hole bottle of cough medicine.Tony Wooooo! did you see that?www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Maybe i shouldn't have drank that hole bottle of cough =medicine. www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 20:31:48 2001 fAJ2VlH19270 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:31:47 -0600 Subject: Re: forms I'd think the sardines on the manifold would be pretty crook but I can't imagine anything worse than prawn shells in a hub cap after a few days in the height of summer in Townsville. The usual polite thing is to keep prawn shells in the freezer until the night before rubbish collection so they don't go off in the mean time but I missed the collection day by one a few years back, it was so bad I stopped using my bin and used the one next door. At this time the rubbish collectors known as Garbo's used to run down the drive way, empty your bin into their bin and return to the truck, now it's automated so people no longer leave a 6 pack of beer out for them at Christmas any more but this was then and I was lying in bed on the collection day of this particular prawn shells in the bin week.I heard the lid of the bin get lifted then a WHARFFFF!!! F**K then vomiting all at the same time which is a hard thing to do.These guys are hard men with stomachs of iron second only to the "night soil" guys I remember from my very early child hood so I guess he had a late, hard night on the grog but it took me hrs to stop laughing every time I thought about it.Try it some time, crab shells would work too [:-)] Tony At 07:32 PM 11/18/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Surely this must be the Aussie equivalent of putting sardines, and theiroil, on the exhaust manifolds of cars. ;o) M-D From: "Tony Young" I remember as a kid getting hrs of chortling at putting prawn shells(shrimp) in the hub caps of the less popular teacher's cars. This wasbefore most cars had aircon and it's HOT where I was living as a kid. Youalways knew when you hit a bulls eye when the teacher would drivearoundwith the windows up no matter how hot it was :-))) Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 20:31:53 2001 fAJ2VlH19271 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:31:48 - Subject: Re: Airport security There are no trout but did you try the reefs? I believe there are also fresh water fish sort of like bass as well. Tony They let me carry four size 1/0 Chartruse Clowsers in my carry on. Now THOSE are big and sharp.Go figure. There are no trout in Fiji.Chris /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Nov 18 20:35:49 2001 fAJ2ZnH19821 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:35:49 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:35:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat The spacer may have been rice paper micarta [ sp]. I know its available, justexpensive. Looks like ivory. I've used various micarta materials in the past.Machine well - last like concrete. catch ya' Don At 12:04 PM 11/18/01 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote: Awhile back, I saw someone selling a reelseat with the white spacer reminiscent of the Kosmic reel seat... Has anyone seen it and know where I could find out more or obtain one? Thanks, Regards, Darrell Lee Anglers Collectibles Exchange http://www.vfish.net Info & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ================== Angling, collecting & rod making books at: http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF ================== ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 18 20:40:20 2001 fAJ2eJH20471 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:40:19 - Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Anybody know if that's the stuff made from hundreds of layers of paper and melamine? If so where it's available from? Tony At 07:31 PM 11/18/01 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: The spacer may have been rice paper micarta [ sp]. I know its available, just expensive. Looks like ivory. I've used various micarta materials in the past. Machine well - last like concrete. catch ya' Don At 12:04 PM 11/18/01 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote: Awhile back, I saw someone selling a reelseat with the white spacerreminiscent of the Kosmic reel seat... Has anyone seen it and know where I could find out more or obtain one? Thanks, Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html > /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from splitcane@home.com Sun Nov 18 21:01:50 2001 fAJ31nH21674 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:01:49 -0600 ;Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:01:54 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: forms Bob, I think you should do a demo of the finish and tip top method next yearat SRG, maybe we could get Harry B. to do a demo on mining, forging andbuilding your own forms [;-)] On the light side, you guys are true gents... ----- Original Message ----- Did ya like that TipTop, Dave? By the way... you're off the hook... Jerry on the other hand! *S* All in fun, Jerry, Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker ----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Collyer" > I think it was a red Lacquer finish, wasn't it Bob? I was really impressed with the custom aluminum ferrules and paper clip tip top... Dave [;-)] From: "Jojo DeLancier" Especially well appointed, wasn't it? And that orangish color -- must have been the shellac. M-D From: "Harry Boyd"> Yeah Bob, Like that nice one you donated to SRG!! Harry Jerry Young wrote: Well said Bob.........but you forgot to include the rods you're expected to donate for the fishing clubs fund raising dinner. from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 21:05:49 2001 fAJ35mH21986 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:05:48 -0600 helo=default) id 165eku-0001CT-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:05:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Maybe it's just plain ol' ivoroid, which at one time was a cellulose type ofplastic. With the modern advent of new plastics this fell by the wayside.The old banjo thumb picks were made from this type of plastic, and gave afar better sound than the modern picks do.There are many types of Garolite, paper based, linen based, fine-weave linenbased, with phenolic resin, silicon based resins, melamine, ranging in color from a tannish-brown to off-white to olive to tan-gray. Take your pick. M-D Anybody know if that's the stuff made from hundreds of layers of paperandmelamine? If so where it's available from? Tony At 07:31 PM 11/18/01 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: The spacer may have been rice paper micarta [ sp]. I know its available,just expensive. Looks like ivory. I've used various micarta materials inthe past. Machine well - last like concrete. catch ya' Don At 12:04 PM 11/18/01 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote: Awhile back, I saw someone selling a reelseat with the white spacerreminiscent of the Kosmic reel seat... Has anyone seen it and know where I could find out more or obtain one? Thanks, Regards, Darrell Lee from jerryy@webtv.net Sun Nov 18 21:13:51 2001 fAJ3DjH22571 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:13:45 -0600 by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA26386; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:13:51 - ETAsAhQIM2L9nSSVuOEwFxUN+boviOinIwIUUYV8VIAHcD4uZMrtdGXafQ74XsE= Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat 20:58:30 -0600 According to Campbells book the Kosmic, and used by other rodmakers,were white celluloid and made by Landman. A Brooklyn maker of reelseats and ferrules. F.F. Museum have several rods with this distinctiveseat. Regards, Jerry Young from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Nov 18 21:18:40 2001 fAJ3IcH22939 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:18:38 - (authenticated) for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 19:18:28 -0800 Subject: Binding question Friends, I'm in the process of re-readingGarrison/Carmichael for about the 10th time.Noticed tonight while sitting on the throne andreading that Garrison ran the freshly glued stripsthrough the binder -- small end first --. I'venever done it that way, and was wondering if anyof you have words of wisdom there... Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from stpete@netten.net Sun Nov 18 21:45:21 2001 fAJ3jKH24198 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:45:20 -0600 forged)) Subject: Re: Colorado Mark, Glad to know another someone in Colorado! Could you post your addressand telephone number? We wouldn't dare abuse you. We promise we'llcall before we 'drop in'. [:-)] Rick C. MasjC1@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/18/01 10:54:29 AM Central Standard Time,caneman@clnk.com writes: I have to take a week long trip to Colorado in the spring tospend fishing time with a shop owner there that wants to carry myrods What do you mean "have to" ? No one ever had to twist my arm to getme to go to Colorado and go fishing. Would this be the shop in BuenaVista? Spring, sounds like you are going for the Mother's day Caddis hatch onthe Arkansas. I don't know if I'll be in Leadville then but, let meknow your travel plans and perhaps we can get together. November 30is my last day working for ChevronTexaco. It is early retirement and apermanent move to Colorado after selling the House here in Houston.Can't wait. Mark Cole from stpete@netten.net Sun Nov 18 21:51:05 2001 fAJ3p4H24653 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:51:04 - forged)) Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Tony, My grandfather's old Edwards Radio (9' 3/2, 5wt) has very nice ferrules,but the male on the mid is cracked 3/4 way around the slide joint RIGHTAT THE PIN. Check on your rods after 30 or 40 years. I use Brownell's AccraGlas (in green box) and those who've seen my rodsknow that I leave my ferrules tight -too tight actually. I've had tofour hand those suckers more than once. With all the tugging, I'venever had an indication of a failure much less have a ferrule pull offthe cane. I tried this stuff after John Channer indicated in a postthat he uses it. I believe in this stuff 100%. Rick C. Tony Miller wrote: HarryWhy do you think it's the weakest point?The stress may be higherat the ferrule.But that doesn't necessarily translate into the weakestpart.And rods that break usually break just ahead of the ferrule.Thatcould be caused by leverage and a whole other list of factors.The pinis farther up on the ferrule. I've never seen a NS ferrule break inhalf.or the cane under it. In front of the ferrule ,YES.Plus you fillthe whole with a pin.It's just like welding two plates together, mostpeople think the weld is the weakest part. But it's not, it's themetal to either side of the weld that is the weakest point.bestregardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Nov 18 21:54:19 2001 fAJ3sIH24956 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:54:18 - 18 Nov 2001 19:54:23 PST Subject: Re: Binding question "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" harry, i have tried it that way. it seems i get moretwist. i am not sure why. also, i seem to get fewerbends and sweeps when doing it butt first. i haven'tthought about it much. when i am gluing i seem to beotherwise occupied...if you know what i mean. timothy --- Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, I'm in the process of re-readingGarrison/Carmichael for about the 10th time.Noticed tonight while sitting on the throne andreading that Garrison ran the freshly glued stripsthrough the binder -- small end first --. I'venever done it that way, and was wondering if anyof you have words of wisdom there... Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Sun Nov 18 22:06:02 2001 fAJ461H25680 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:06:01 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:06:06 PST Subject: Inside ferrule preparation In addition to the cleaning with acentone and scoringof the inside with a file, I've gone to boiling theferrules after the above processes to remove any filmof any kind from the inside of the ferrule. I don'tknow that boiling improves the surface preparationbeyond other processes, but they are squeaky clean. Chris McDowell __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sun Nov 18 22:08:40 2001 fAJ48eH25967 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:08:40 - Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:08:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Tony, Koval Knives sells some micarta to make knife handles but no white micarta.They've go something called K-carta that they say will look like it afteraging. http://www.kovalknives.com/ Maybe some of the other knife making suppliers would have it. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Anybody know if that's the stuff made from hundreds of layers of paperandmelamine? If so where it's available from? Tony At 07:31 PM 11/18/01 -0700, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: The spacer may have been rice paper micarta [ sp]. I know its available,just expensive. Looks like ivory. I've used various micarta materials inthe past. Machine well - last like concrete. catch ya' Don At 12:04 PM 11/18/01 -0800, Darrell Lee wrote: Awhile back, I saw someone selling a reelseat with the white spacerreminiscent of the Kosmic reel seat... Has anyone seen it and know where I could find out more or obtain one? Thanks, Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== http://www.telusplan et.net/public/dmanders/index.html /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Sun Nov 18 22:17:38 2001 fAJ4HbH26601 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:17:37 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:27:19 - Subject: Re: Binding question Harry;Of course he did it that way, you don't think for an instant that HEwould have done it the easy way, do you? I tried it once, the nextsection I glued up, I did large end first and haven't looked back.Nowadays, when I bother to look at The Book at all, mostly I just shakemy head and wonder why he had to make it so hard.John Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, I'm in the process of re-readingGarrison/Carmichael for about the 10th time.Noticed tonight while sitting on the throne andreading that Garrison ran the freshly glued stripsthrough the binder -- small end first --. I'venever done it that way, and was wondering if anyof you have words of wisdom there... Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 22:40:27 2001 fAJ4eQH27724 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:40:26 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:40:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules RickI can't argue that point:))Because I don't know what will happen in 30 -40 yrs with my rods.And I can't wait to find out.So for now I'll just have to go on what other makers tell me and my own =experiences.I've restored alot of 30- 40 yr old rods that still had the original =ferrulesbecause they were pinned.Also, I recently watched Jeff Wagner's demo at Grayrock.He said that he had some ferrules coming off until he started pinning.Was anyone else there (can I get a witness) :))All I can say is ferrules are gonna crack(pinned or not) some will.If I pin, chances are the ferrules will still be original on my rods and =not replaced in 30 -40 yrsThat will make them more valuable.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Rick Because I don't know what will happen in 30 -40 yrs with my =rods.And I can't wait to find out.So for now I'll just have to go on what other makers tell me and my = experiences.I've restored alot of 30-40 yr old rods that still had the original = ferrulesbecause they were pinned.Also, I recently watched Jeff Wagner's demo at Grayrock. pinning.Was anyone else there (can I get a witness) :)) will.If I pin, chances are the ferrules will still be original on my = not replaced in 30 -40 yrsThat will make them more valuable.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from lblan@provide.net Sun Nov 18 22:57:34 2001 fAJ4vXH28741 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:57:33 - for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:57:40 - Subject: RE: Pinning ferrules Didn't he say he had problems until he switched to the hot melt adhesivethat he now sells? I seem to recall him mentioning some cold weatherfailures of his old adhesive, I don't recall him attributing his success tothe pins. Of course, I can't remember much beyond those way cool files hehad!Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 11:41 PM Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules RickI can't argue that point:))Because I don't know what will happen in 30 -40 yrs with my rods.And I can't wait to find out.So for now I'll just have to go on what other makers tell me and my ownexperiences.I've restored alot of 30- 40 yr old rods that still had the originalferrulesbecause they were pinned.Also, I recently watched Jeff Wagner's demo at Grayrock.He said that he had some ferrules coming off until he started pinning.Was anyone else there (can I get a witness) :))All I can say is ferrules are gonna crack(pinned or not) some will.If I pin, chances are the ferrules will still be original on my rods andnot replaced in 30 -40 yrsThat will make them more valuable.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Didn't = I seem to recall him mentioning some cold weather failures of his old = I don't recall him attributing his success to the pins. Of course, I = remember much beyond those way cool files he had!Larry Blan MillerSent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 11:41 = ferrulesRick Because I don't know what will happen in 30 -40 yrs with my =rods.And I can't wait to find out.So for now I'll just have to go on what other makers tell me and = experiences.I've restored alot of 30-40 yr old rods that still had the = ferrulesbecause they were pinned.Also, I recently watched Jeff Wagner's demo at Grayrock. pinning.Was anyone else there (can I get a witness) :)) will.If I pin, chances are the ferrules will still be original on my = not replaced in 30 -40 yrsThat will make them more valuable.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 23:15:19 2001 fAJ5FJH29752 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:15:19 -0600 helo=default) id 165gmE-0007JR-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:15:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Texas Knife Supply, www.texasknife.com , has an ivory colored paper basedmicarta block, 1 1/8" x 1 1/2" x 5", for $ 14.95. It is said that it willnot yellow with age. They also sell a white colored linen based micarta butit is only 3/8" thick. BUT . . . they also have an "Alternative Ivory" thatis $ 15.95 per block. M-D Tony, Koval Knives sells some micarta to make knife handles but no white micarta. They've go something called K-carta that they say will look like it afteraging. http://www.kovalknives.com/ Maybe some of the other knife making suppliers would have it. Tim from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 18 23:16:43 2001 fAJ5GbH29939 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:16:41 - for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:16:40 -0500 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Yeah, he did say that too:))But do you remember when he pointed at me and said "he knows what I =mean" he was referring to pinning ferrules. The reason was he knew I =did alot of restorations and I see pinned ferrules alot.I bought the files , ferrule tight, and the pinning wire and bits later =on.The files were great!! The pinning wire and bits were great too!!I'm about 50/50 on the ferrule tite. It's easier but I'm not convinced =it's stronger than epoxy.I could almost quote what Jeff said word for word. The reason iswhen Jeff tells me something I listen,very ,very,very closely:)) Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Yeah, he did say that too:))But do you remember when he pointed at me and said "he knows what I= I bought the files , ferrule tight, and the pinning wire and bits = on.The files were great!! The pinning wire and bits were great =too!!I'm about 50/50 on the ferrule tite. It's easier but I'm not = stronger than epoxy.I could almost quote what Jeff said word for word. The reason =is closely:))Some day I'm gonna be as good as him, Na! Better :)) Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from homes-sold@home.com Sun Nov 18 23:24:42 2001 fAJ5OgH00552 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:24:42 - femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sun, 18 Nov 2001 21:24:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Forms Mark,I made my wooden forms out of hard maple. By more stable, I mean, morestaleplatform to work from, mine are wider than the norm 3/4 metal stock ones.Mine are 2+ inches wide which gives more room for a grooved plane tooperate. On narrower forms it is very easy to "fall off" the form with agrooved plane, resulting in a nicked form, dulled planing iron or both.Wider forms also allow you to skew a grooved plane more if you wish, sometimes helpful on tough grain They also keep your finger tips away from theadjusting bolts and allows them to make contact with the top of the formandfeel the horizontal cant of the plane one way or the other.There is also something about a very expensive plane rubbing against a metalform that I wouldn't think enhances the longevity of either.As far as accuracy of the groove, they are every bit as accurate and, to me,much easier to maintain, and allow you to make consistent strips.Rex Tutor was kind enough to put a recent "how to" article I wrote, becauseof all of the questions on building forms, on a web page. The article alsohas two very useful tools you can build to make the job easier. You can seeit at: http://www.geocities.com/macsrods/BuildingWoodenPlaningForms.doc Todd Talsma is also going to put it on the "Tip Site" with pictures as soonas I get him the pictures. Hope this helps, Don Hi Don, You like your wooden forms over metal, Why? I'm exploring building a set offorms and not sure where that is going to lead me....You say that their more stable? what kind of wood did you use? how did youput the groove in them and how accurate is the groove? -Mark from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 18 23:32:01 2001 fAJ5VuH00956 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:32:00 -0600 helo=default) id 165h2G-0006cc-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:32:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Binding question Words of wisdom: DON'T DO IT! M-D Friends, I'm in the process of re-readingGarrison/Carmichael for about the 10th time.Noticed tonight while sitting on the throne andreading that Garrison ran the freshly glued stripsthrough the binder -- small end first --. I'venever done it that way, and was wondering if anyof you have words of wisdom there... Thanks in advance,Harry from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Nov 19 00:27:03 2001 fAJ6R2H02289 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:27:02 - ([209.178.134.216] helo=g2t8c9) id 165hte-0005QX-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:27:10 -0800 Subject: Standard or Truncated? I was talking to a rodmaker this weekend and he told me he like usingtruncated ferrules on everything. So once again the question comes up.Standard or Truncated? any real reason to use either or not to? Adam Vigil from saweiss@flash.net Mon Nov 19 00:36:17 2001 fAJ6aEH02773 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:36:14 - fAJ6aJL111094 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 01:36:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Binding question Organization: Prodigy Internet Harry,I tried it once, after reading about it. The tip section was very difficultto control, so I quickly reversed it and wrapped it from the butt end beforeeverything started to set up. I haven't tried it again since then.Steve I'm in the process of re-readingGarrison/Carmichael for about the 10th time.Noticed tonight while sitting on the throne andreading that Garrison ran the freshly glued stripsthrough the binder -- small end first --. I'venever done it that way, and was wondering if anyof you have words of wisdom there... Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Nov 19 01:22:35 2001 fAJ7MUH04493 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 01:22:30 - for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:09:01+0100 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:09:00+0100 Subject: Re: Binding question Hey, what are You guys saying?? I`ve always run it tip first, and do I gettwists, You bet I get twists:-(( Now I know what to do next time... danny from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Nov 19 02:07:15 2001 fAJ87DH05269 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 02:07:14 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:07:09 +1100 Subject: Chubb care FILETIME=[30036850:01C170D1] Ian Kearney was over from NZ and we looked at a 10' eight strip Chubb Ifound recently. Looking in Marty Keane's work, Chubb was the innovatorof drawn reel seats and ferrules, and other improvements. Marty writesthat the Chubb business went into Montague shortly after the turn of thecentury. As this is an amazingly modern looking rod for its time, snake guides,ferrules with 8 separations, one for each strip, transparent wraps etc.,I wonder if anyone on the list knows if the name was carried on to lateryears by Montague or others? Also, and this relates to the recent exchange on the list aboutwrapping, there are a few loose wraps that were clearly never tied in. Iwould not imagine to restore this rod, but rather add a bit ofvarnish/polish to brighten it up and keep it from deterioration, atmost. Ian has had success on older rods with an auto pre-polish paste,and waxes later. Any thoughts on this old timer? Thanks. Sean from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 19 02:18:14 2001 fAJ8ICH05671 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 02:18:12 - Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Just a thought that struck me. Anybody know how well this stuff wears? I was thinking stripper guide ring inserts. Tony At 11:07 PM 11/18/01 -0500, Tim Wilhelm wrote: Tony, Koval Knives sells some micarta to make knife handles but no whitemicarta.They've go something called K-carta that they say will look like it afteraging. http://www.kovalknives.com/ Maybe some of the other knife making suppliers would have it. Tim /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 02:39:02 2001 fAJ8d2H06137 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 02:39:02 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:39:02 -0800 Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:39:02 GMT Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive FILETIME=[A3E17010:01C170D5] I still use the more traditional hot melt but I did try this method on one of those sticks that didn't quite make the grade and believe me this method works. Couldn't figure out how it worked until Dave told me about flashing the glue with an alcohol lamp.A.J. From: "Dave Collyer" CC: "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesiveDate: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:35:13 -0700 I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golfshafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule andheat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and it'sready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexible bondbetween cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat ifneeded. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright &McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success... Take Care, Dave _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Nov 19 04:45:52 2001 fAJAjqH07713 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 04:45:52 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4169. . Clean. Processed in 0.771323 secs); 19 Nov 200110:45:56 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Airport security --------------9A534226544DD6813EB1CA1F I often wonder what would have happened if a few Fly Fisherman withcarry-on rod tubes were on those Sept. 11 flights. Six box cutters wouldhave been no match for a few fisherman weilding rod tubes. Marty Chris Raine wrote: Just got back from 2 weeks in Fiji. U.S. airport security and FijiAirport security. In San Fran, they made me break off the file on mysmall nail clippers. Carried the rod and rod case on the plane. Flyline and reel were ok. Fiji security checked and rechecked, xrayed andlet rod and reels on plane. Any kind of knife was disallowed. Plasticknives for dinnerware. They let me carry four size 1/0 ChartruseClowsers in my carry on. Now THOSE are big and sharp.Go figure.There are no trout in Fiji.Chris --------------9A534226544DD6813EB1CA1F I often wonder what would have happened if a few Fly Fisherman with carry- onrod tubes were on those Sept. 11 flights. Six box cutters would have beenno match for a few fisherman weilding rod tubes. MartyChris Raine wrote: got security checked and rechecked, xrayed and let rod and reels on no trout in Fiji.Chris --------------9A534226544DD6813EB1CA1F-- from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Nov 19 04:54:44 2001 fAJAshH08014 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 04:54:43 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4169. . Clean. Processed in 0.548727 secs); 19 Nov 200110:54:52 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Please forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe the Radio rod was sold throughEK Tryon of Philadelphia and was manufactured by Montague. It is a highgrade Montague however with high grade machine welted ferrules. I have a9'er stamped RADIO in fancy script on the full NS seat.Marty Rick wrote: Tony, My grandfather's old Edwards Radio (9' 3/2, 5wt) has very nice ferrules,but the male on the mid is cracked 3/4 way around the slide joint RIGHTAT THE PIN. Check on your rods after 30 or 40 years. I use Brownell's AccraGlas (in green box) and those who've seen my rodsknow that I leave my ferrules tight -too tight actually. I've had tofour hand those suckers more than once. With all the tugging, I'venever had an indication of a failure much less have a ferrule pull offthe cane. I tried this stuff after John Channer indicated in a postthat he uses it. I believe in this stuff 100%. Rick C. Tony Miller wrote: HarryWhy do you think it's the weakest point?The stress may be higherat the ferrule.But that doesn't necessarily translate into the weakestpart.And rods that break usually break just ahead of the ferrule.Thatcould be caused by leverage and a whole other list of factors.The pinis farther up on the ferrule. I've never seen a NS ferrule break inhalf.or the cane under it. In front of the ferrule ,YES.Plus you fillthe whole with a pin.It's just like welding two plates together, mostpeople think the weld is the weakest part. But it's not, it's themetal to either side of the weld that is the weakest point.bestregardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Nov 19 05:23:52 2001 fAJBNpH08571 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 05:23:51 - fAJBNkg19722 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:23:47 Subject: "Sick" - who said "sick"? Years ago I used play some snooker, and kept the cue hanging on the wall inthe club's billiards room. No lock on the tube. Very honest lot of members. But someone flogged the cue, leaving the empty tube hanging on the wall. I was pretty disappointed at the loss, especially as I used look at themembers and wonder who among these people I knew so well pinched thestick. My wife, after a week or so, said to me (and I wasn't even really aware thatshe had actually registered the loss) "You know, I have the answer to thatsort of problem". 1. Go trap a 5 or 6 foot tiger snake. There are lots of them around here. 2. Stick said snake in a bag in the refrigerator until it becomes reallysluggish. And I mean REALLY sluggish! 3. Straighten it out and stick it tail first into the cue tube. You mighthave to drill a small hole in the bottom of the tube and pull it in with abit of string if you have the snake fitting the tube correctly. Do you all see where this is going? 4. Close the cap on the tube, and hang it, as always, cap down on the wall. 5. Get all the others to lock their tubes. At some time in the next week or so, the problem becomes a self-solvingone. My wife and I have been married for thirty years next month, and I havealways looked upon her with a great deal more respect after that. Apropos of nothing, Peter(please note uncharacteristic terse writing style out of respect forbandwidth) from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 19 05:42:16 2001 fAJBgGH09116 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 05:42:16 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules I use Brownell's AccraGlas (in green box) and those who've seen my rodsknow that I leave my ferrules tight -too tight....... Rick, Have you had to take a ferrule off with the AccraGlas? Was it difficult,easy? Regards, Steve from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Nov 19 05:45:01 2001 fAJBitH09344 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 05:44:56 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:44:54 +1100 Subject: Re: "Sick" - who said "sick"? FILETIME=[9B642210:01C170EF] Peter: I a trying to imagine how Tasmanians are going to feel aboutopening rod tubes, particularly if sourced from your good self. Sean Peter McKean wrote: Years ago I used play some snooker, and kept the cue hanging on the wall inthe club's billiards room. No lock on the tube. Very honest lot of members. But someone flogged the cue, leaving the empty tube hanging on the wall. I was pretty disappointed at the loss, especially as I used look at themembers and wonder who among these people I knew so well pinched thestick. My wife, after a week or so, said to me (and I wasn't even really aware thatshe had actually registered the loss) "You know, I have the answer to thatsort of problem". 1. Go trap a 5 or 6 foot tiger snake. There are lots of them around here. 2. Stick said snake in a bag in the refrigerator until it becomes reallysluggish. And I mean REALLY sluggish! 3. Straighten it out and stick it tail first into the cue tube. You mighthave to drill a small hole in the bottom of the tube and pull it in with abit of string if you have the snake fitting the tube correctly. Do you all see where this is going? 4. Close the cap on the tube, and hang it, as always, cap down on the wall. 5. Get all the others to lock their tubes. At some time in the next week or so, the problem becomes a self-solvingone. My wife and I have been married for thirty years next month, and I havealways looked upon her with a great deal more respect after that. Apropos of nothing, Peter(please note uncharacteristic terse writing style out of respect forbandwidth) from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon Nov 19 05:47:58 2001 fAJBlvH09593 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 05:47:57 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 06:46:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive Which of the Pliobond products are you using? =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golfshafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule andheat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and it'sready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexible bond between cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat ifneeded. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright &McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success... Take Care, Dave from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 19 07:00:32 2001 fAJD0UH10644 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:00:31 - Subject: Re: "Sick" - who said "sick"? 1. Go trap a 5 or 6 foot tiger snake. There are lots of them around here. My bloody oath there are. The car I was driving there a couple of years back was attacked by one sitting on the side of the road. When I got to where I wanted to fish one was sitting in the middle of the path standing up like a cobra at about chest height between me and the water. We were on a collision course, I stupidly thought it would yield so I stopped and threw sticks and stones at it to move it along which it did directly at me at battle speed, I wound up being chased back to the car not knowing wether to keep my eyes on the one I knew about or turn around and look for others waiting to ambush me. In my rush for the car I forgot all about the European Wasps I tried to remember when I returned that way but the stings weren't that bad after all.Later that day (all these on the same afternoon) I was walking up a very steep bank out of a creek and met one at eye level. A gymnastic back flip was called for followed by a belly slide back to the creek. I must have looked like Nunley after a day out on the town followed by an afternoon in the workshop [:-)] Not too many animals bother me that much but these Tiger snakes are serious, serious animals every bit as heavy as salt water crocks. Don't mess with them unless you are : 1) A Tasmanian or other similar madman looking to exact revenge.2) Foaming at the mouth then see #1. I'd pay to see that crocodile guy wrestle a big one [:-)] Peter, do you know the name of the Island that has these things so bad and the snakes are so agro not even the Aboriginies lived there? A bit of serious advise for anybody ever fishing in Tassie, DON'T wet wade, DO wear Horn rubber waders and DON'T play with the wild life. It all bites. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from splitcane@home.com Mon Nov 19 08:10:25 2001 fAJEAOH12320 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:10:25 - ;Mon, 19 Nov 2001 06:10:33 -0800 "Steve Trauthwein" Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive Pliobond is a registered trade mark held by Ashland, Inc, Packaged andmarketed by: W. J. Ruscoe Co. - 483 Kenmore Blvd. - Akron, Ohio 44301. It'savailable at Ace Hardware and the like in 1oz tubes at about $3.00, that'senough to set 100's of ferrules... It's marked, General Purpose Adhesive for rubber, leather, canvas, steel,fiberglass ( W&M and Phillipson also use this on there fiberglass rods )aluminum, wood and glass. Forming a permanent flexible bond, to withstand,vibration, flexing, stretching. Resistant to, salt, gasoline and some acids,remains flexible from 0* to 200* F. Automotive, Marine, Aircraft,Appliances, stick with Pliobond the professionals do... Take Care, Dave ----- Original Message ----- Which of the Pliobond products are you using? ----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Collyer" I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golf shafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule andheat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and it'sready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexible bond between cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat ifneeded. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright &McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success... Take Care, Dave from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 08:11:15 2001 fAJEBEH12390 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:11:14 -0600 helo=default) id 165p8s-000727-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:11:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat While I know micarta (garolite) is tough, and wears well, I would think thatit would groove badly, would wear out your line, and wouldn't make a goodinsert for a stripper at all. M-D Just a thought that struck me. Anybody know how well this stuff wears? Iwas thinking stripper guide ring inserts. Tony from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 19 08:34:27 2001 fAJEYOH14045 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:34:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Just a thought. Thanks. Tony At 08:01 AM 11/19/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: While I know micarta (garolite) is tough, and wears well, I would think thatit would groove badly, would wear out your line, and wouldn't make a goodinsert for a stripper at all. M-D From: "Tony Young" Just a thought that struck me. Anybody know how well this stuff wears?Iwas thinking stripper guide ring inserts. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 08:34:47 2001 fAJEYkH14118 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:34:46 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 06:34:49 -0800 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules FILETIME=[580D2210:01C17107] What is AccraGlas? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Tony, My grandfather's old Edwards Radio (9' 3/2, 5wt) has very nice ferrules,but the male on the mid is cracked 3/4 way around the slide joint RIGHTAT THE PIN. Check on your rods after 30 or 40 years. I use Brownell's AccraGlas (in green box) and those who've seen my rodsknow that I leave my ferrules tight -too tight actually. I've had tofour hand those suckers more than once. With all the tugging, I'venever had an indication of a failure much less have a ferrule pull offthe cane. I tried this stuff after John Channer indicated in a postthat he uses it. I believe in this stuff 100%. Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html but the male on the mid is cracked 3/4 way around the slide joint RIG= years.I= I'venever had an indication of a failure much less have a ferrule pu= from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 19 08:49:10 2001 fAJEn9H15122 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:49:09 - (authenticated) for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 06:48:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Binding question