Thanks for all the responses, friends. Guess I shouldhave known that the hard, non-intuitive way would beespoused by that particular author. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 08:55:45 2001 fAJEtiH15646 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:55:44 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 06:55:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules FILETIME=[45FFD3D0:01C1710A] Is the pin placed perpejohnndicular to the guide flats or parallel? the p=in placed perpejohnndicular to the guide flats or parallel? &n= from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 08:59:32 2001 fAJExWH15975 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:59:32 -0600 helo=default) id 165ptY-0003v3-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:59:36 -0500 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's for use in glass bedding rifles, and = M-D What is AccraGlas? It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's= glass bedding rifles, and any number of other things related to =firearms. www.brownells.com = M-D John = from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 09:04:52 2001 fAJF4lH16488 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:04:52 -0600 Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:04:46 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: pinning ferrules FILETIME=[873040F0:01C1710B] Thanks, M-D. Is it really intended as an adhesive? john ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: pinning ferrules It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's for use in glass bedding rifles, and an= M-D What is AccraGlas? It is an epoxy sold byBrown=ell's for use in glass bedding rifles, and any number of other things rel=ated to firearms. www.brownells.com== AccraGlas? from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 09:09:51 2001 fAJF9oH16984 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:09:50 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:09:54 -0800 "Steve Trauthwein" Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive FILETIME=[3E649550:01C1710C] Would you describe "flashing the Pliobond" and also hot the ferrule is h=eated? john I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golf shafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule = and heat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and i= t's ready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexib= le bond between cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat i= f needed. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright = & McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success.= .. Take Care, Dave the= fi= ferru= &=gt; McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success.= from lblan@provide.net Mon Nov 19 09:10:05 2001 fAJFA5H17010 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:10:05 - with HTTP id 5011661 for ; Mon, 19 Nov2001 10:10:07 -0500 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules It is available in two forms, a semi liquid and a gel. Theyhave similar but different properties. Brownells sells a book titled "Gunsmithing Kinks" thatcontains a chapter on documented uses for Acra-glass,including repairing broken toilet bowls. Larry Blan On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:49:47 -0600"Jojo DeLancier" wrote: It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's for use in glassbedding rifles, and any number of other things related tofirearms. www.brownells.com > M-DFrom: John Long What is AccraGlas? from splitcane@home.com Mon Nov 19 09:11:29 2001 fAJFBRH17362 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:11:27 - ;Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:11:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive AJ is correct, the flashing of the Pliobond is very important, it's flashpoint is about 0* F so be careful... Once you have a snug fit of ferrule to cane, apply a small amount ofpliobond to the cane, fit the ferrule and rotate on the cane to spread theglue on the inside of the ferrule, wipe off any excess Pliobond around thetaps of the ferrule and remove ferrule. With a gloved hand heat the ferruleover a alcohol lamp, once hot quick flash the glued end of the cane andpress ferrule in place... Tips... If ferrule cools to much and dose not seat correctly or all the way, simplyrotate ferrule over the flame a little and seat the rest of the way oradjust fit... You can remove excess Pilobond around taps once correctly seated with alittle Lacquer thinner or like... With a little practice you can set ferrules ready to fish in just a fewminutes, as the curing time is as long as it takes the ferrule to cool... Great to carry in a mobile repair kit for streamside repairs... I also use a small dap on the bottom of guides to set them in place on therod ( no flashing required, but should sit for about 15 minutes beforewrapping ) This sets the guides in place so they can be wrapped easily, plusit puts a flexible layer between the cane and guide foot protecting the caneand giving the stress point a little flex... Can be used on tip tops with a snug fit, if the fit is not snug apply thepliobond to cane and wrap over it with silk thread, apply a little morePliobond over the top of the silk, fit the tip top and remove, quick flashas with the ferrules and press in place, your ready to hit the water... It's great to make a loop connection between silk fly lines and leader,clean the first few inches of the silk line with lacquer thinner, from asmall loop in the front of the silk fly line, apply Pilobond where they meetand around the joint, undo loop and let cure for a few minutes, reform loopand it will hold together by it's self, wrap joint with silk thread like youare wrapping a guide, once wrapped spread a little Pilobond over the silkthread ( do not flash ) and let stand 12/24 hours. ( alla: Jerry M. ) I read but have not tried this, mix Pliobond, cork dust and a few drops oftan paint to match the cork color, spread over cork to fill holes, let standtill cured, sand off excess as normal and the grip is filled and ready... These are a few application and tips, I'm sure you will find more... Take Care, Dave ----- Original Message ----- I still use the more traditional hot melt but I did try this method on oneof those sticks that didn't quite make the grade and believe me this method works. Couldn't figure out how it worked until Dave told me about flashingthe glue with an alcohol lamp.A.J. From: "Dave Collyer" I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule andheat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and it'sready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexiblebondbetween cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat ifneeded. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright &McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success... Take Care, Dave from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 09:14:00 2001 fAJFDxH17895 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:14:00 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:14:03 -0800 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules FILETIME=[D2E761D0:01C1710C] Is the ferrule pin installed perpendicular to the guide flats, parallel, =or doesn't it matter? from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 09:31:22 2001 fAJFVLH19078 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:31:21 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:31:21 -0800 Subject: Fw: Regarding job layoffs and downsizing in the USA . . . FILETIME=[3D765D60:01C1710F] Sorry folks, but I couldn't resist posting this. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Regarding job layoffs and downsizing in the USA . . . Joe Smith started the day early, having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPA= At the end of yet another discouraging and KEEP THIS CIRCULATING PLEASE Sorry folks, but I couldn't resist postin= Butler Sent: Monday, November 19,20= angelhut Subject: Regarding job layoffs= Joe Smithstar=ted the day early, having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a=m . . . While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking . . . he =shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress=shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE),a=nd tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking breakfast in his new e=lectric skillet (MADE IN INDIA), He sat down with his calculator (MAD=E IN MEXICO), to see how much he could spend today. Aftersetting=his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN), to the radio (MADE IN INDIA), hegot=in his car (MADE IN GERMANY), and continued his search for a good pa= his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL), poured himself a glass of wine (MADE I=N FRANCE), and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), andwondered= <=< from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Mon Nov 19 09:37:44 2001 fAJFbiH19613 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:37:44 - Subject: Re: Flyfisherman Magazine Steve.It was Vo5 #3 Spring 1974 the article was titled The Bamboo Renaissance.Best Hal. from splitcane@home.com Mon Nov 19 09:52:09 2001 fAJFq8H23408 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:52:08 - ;Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:52:13 -0800 "Steve Trauthwein" Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive The Pliobond will "flash" instantly once it hits the flame, on the =female you can hold the ferrule with bare hand on the other end and =rotate in flame appx 10/15 seconds, on male use a gloved hand and heat =the insert part first, then turn around and heat the open end 10/15 =seconds, the cane should be quick flashed for about 3/5 seconds only... Do not exceed 300* on the ferrules as this will weaken the metal, I =would say 150*/200* is best and will be archived with the instructions = It's important all the Pliobond is "flashed" cured and it's probably a =good idea to let the ferrule stand 12/24 hours before wrapping and =applying the finish when you first use this method, as this will let any =uncured Pliobond to air cure and the fumes to escape. To all the =restorers out there, Pliobond is the reason some ferrules "shout" of the =rod when the ferrule is heated to be removed for restoration so be =careful where it's pointing... Would you describe "flashing the Pliobond" and also hot the ferrule =is heated? john I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue =withgolfshafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with =lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove =ferrule andheat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place =and it'sready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and =flexiblebondbetween cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little =heat ifneeded. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, =Wright &McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great =success... Take Care, Dave The Pliobond will "flash" instantly = the flame, on the female you can hold the ferrule with bare hand on the = end and rotate in flame appx 10/15 seconds, on male use a gloved hand = the insert part first, then turn around and heat the open end 10/15 = cane should be quick flashed for about 3/5 seconds only... Do not exceed 300* on the ferrules as= weaken the metal, I would say 150*/200* is best and will be archived = It's important all the Pliobond is = and it's probably a good idea to let the ferrule stand 12/24 hours = wrapping and applying the finish when you first use this method, as this = restorers out there, Pliobond is the reason some ferrules "shout" of the = when the ferrule is heated to be removed for restoration so be careful = it's pointing... ----- Original Message ----- John = is heated? john cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat = needed. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright = from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 10:14:45 2001 fAJGEiH24859 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:14:44 -0600 helo=default) id 165r4E-0008BM-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:14:43 -0500 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Yes, but it was formulated particularly for the glass bedding. It really =is some good stuff. I've just never seen any of its mechanical, nor =physical properties listed, so haven't used it for ferrules.On that note, as Ralph O'Quinn, of Trondak UB-40, pointed out to me =once, it really doesn't take much at all to hold a ferrule in place. =Even the pin, with no adhesive at all will do it, as there is very =little stress on the ferrule joint itself, except when separating them. =The problem, as I see it, is getting a rather permanent adhesion, in a =variety of scenarios. True enough, any number of adhesives will work, =but surely some must have more duration, and more tenacity in harsh =conditions, such as sub-freezing weather.The use of the Scotchbrite goes a long way towards creating a more =durable bond, on the molecular level, than does any other method of =abrasion, and for removing oils, alcohol is better than acetone. M-D Thanks, M-D. Is it really intended as an adhesive? john From: Jojo DeLancier It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's for use in glass bedding rifles, = M-D What is AccraGlas? Yes, but it was formulated = the glass bedding. It really is some good stuff. I've just never seen = On that note, as Ralph O'Quinn,of = ferrule in place. Even the pin, with no adhesive at all will do it, as = very little stress on the ferrule joint itself, except when separating = problem, as I see it, is getting a rather permanent adhesion, in a = scenarios. True enough, any number of adhesives will work, but surely = have more duration, and more tenacity in harsh conditions, such as = weather.The use of the Scotchbrite goesa = towards creating a more durable bond, on the molecular level, than does = acetone. M-D John = john Jojo DeLancier It is an epoxy sold by = use in glass bedding rifles, and any number of other things related = firearms. www.brownells.com = M-D AccraGlas? from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 10:16:16 2001 fAJGGFH25018 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:16:15 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:16:10 -0800 "Steve Trauthwein" Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive FILETIME=[8017F470:01C17115] Dave, thanks for the reply. It puts a whole new meaning to "hot gluing" =and I think I'll try it. I have heard of others using Pliobond, but neve=r this way. Leon Hansen uses Pliobond and claims it gives a bit of a cus=hion and eliminates the cracking of the finish at the ferrule/cane juncti= ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive The Pliobond will "flash" instantly once it hits the flame, on the female=you can hold the ferrule with bare hand on the other end and rotate in f=lame appx 10/15 seconds, on male use a gloved hand and heat the insert pa=rt first, then turn around and heat the open end 10/15 seconds, the cane =should be quick flashed for about 3/5 seconds only... Do not exceed 300* on the ferrules as this will weaken the metal, I would=say 150*/200* is best and will be archived with the instructions above..= It's important all the Pliobond is "flashed" cured and it's probably a go=od idea to let the ferrule stand 12/24 hours before wrapping and applying=the finish when you first use this method, as this will let any uncured =Pliobond to air cure and the fumes to escape. To all the restorers out th=ere, Pliobond is the reason some ferrules "shout" of the rod when the fer=rule is heated to be removed for restoration so be careful where it's poi=nting... Would you describe "flashing the Pliobond" and also hot the ferrule is h=eated? john I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golf shafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule = and heat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and i= t's ready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexib= le bond between cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat i= f needed. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright = & McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success.= .. Take Care, Dave n Hansen uses Pliobond and claims it gives a bit of a cushion and elimina= ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Collyer Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:55 Ste=ve Trauthwein Cc:RodmakersP=ost Subject: Re: Insideferr= the female you can hold the ferrule with bare hand on the other end and =rotate in flame appx 10/15 seconds, on male use a gloved hand and heat th=e insert part first, then turn around and heat the open end 10/15 seconds= Do not exceed 300* on the ferrules as this will weaken =the metal, I would say 150*/200* is best and will be archived with the in= th=e Pliobond is "flashed" cured and it's probably a good idea to let the fe=rrule stand 12/24 hours before wrapping and applying the finish when you =first use this method, as this will let any uncured Pliobond to air cure = the reason some ferrules "shout" of the rod when the ferrule is heated t= ----- Original Message ----- From: John Long describ=e "flashing the Pliobond" and also hot the ferrule is heated? = fer= gt; heat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and i= from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 10:20:43 2001 fAJGKgH25576 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:20:42 -0600 helo=default) id 165rA2-0008Nm-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:20:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive One thing to consider when using this method is to not allow the Pliobond tocook off to any great degree. Being neoprene based, too much heat for toolong will destroy the neoprene -- 375Ÿ F, I think. I've used Dave'stechnique, and it works. M-D AJ is correct, the flashing of the Pliobond is very important, it's flashpoint is about 0* F so be careful... SNIP . . .once hot quick flash the glued end of the cane andpress ferrule in place... Take Care, Dave from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 10:24:35 2001 fAJGOZH26001 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:24:35 -0600 helo=default) id 165rDm-0000hl-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:24:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Regarding job layoffs and downsizing in the USA . . . There has been a systematic and intentional move of the US away from =being an industrial based society, instead being a service based =society, since WWII. Joe Smith is just in the wrong line of work, that's =all. ;o) M-D Sorry folks, but I couldn't resist posting this. From: Richard Butler Joe Smith started the day early, having set his alarm clock (MADE IN = SNIP There has been a systematic and= instead being a service based society, since WWII. Joe Smith is just in = wrong line of work, that's all. ;o) M-D John = Sorry folks, but I couldn't resist posting this. Richard Butler Joe Smith started the day early, having set his alarm clock = IN JAPAN) for 6 am . . . SNIP = from flyfishr@istar.ca Mon Nov 19 11:01:49 2001 fAJH1mH28135 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:01:48 - helo=flyfishr) id 165ro1-0003m6-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:02:01 -0500 Subject: re Super-Z ferrules I found this story on the net a few years ago: Super Z Ferrules The famous and now-historic Super Z ferrule was the brainchild of LouisFeierabend, inventor of a revolutionary new concept in ferrules, oftensaid to be the only original concept in ferrule design since before1900. Feierabend was a mechanical engineer with an established career inaeronautical engineering and worked for a naval armament plant duringWorld War II. However, before the war Feierabend found himselfunemployed as the nation struggled to recover from the Depression, andhe ended up owning and operating a small retail fishing shop, RocklandTackle Co. in Hillburn, N.Y. This brief venture exposed him to fishing tackle and introduced him tomany local fishermen and craftsmen building bamboo fly rods. He had theopportunity to work with Nat Uslan designing milling and rod windingequipment for the unique 5-strip Uslan rods. He also worked for a briefperiod of time with Jim Payne, whom he says was the greatest naturalcraftsman he ever met. During the final years of the war, Feierabend decided to go into thebusiness of producing ferrules to meet the demand of increased rodproduction in the U. S. He realized even then that fiberglass rods werethe coming trend and that existing ferrule designs with serrated flatsto accommodate bamboo would not work on the round shaft of productionglass rods. By 1948 he had completed the master drawings for a completeseries of his new round ferrules and submitted them for patent. Themajor advantage of his new design was that, in addition to being shorterand stronger, it used the same diameter for both the tip and the buttferrules -- reducing the tooling required to make ferrules of twodifferent sizes. Finally U. S. Patent #2,600,629 was issued on June 17,1952. By then, the three had set up business as Super Z ManufacturingCo. in Pearl River, N. Y. The Super Z name was derived from an engineering term wherein "Z" is acontraction symbol for section modulus, which is what gives his ferruleits superior strength. Feierabend also designed the logo with the wordSuper running through the large Z. The initial Super Z ferrules produced Everett Garrison, whose rod shop was just across the Hudson River, wasthe first major rod maker to realize the advantage of the Super Z.Garrison was a structural engineer who immediately understood theconcept of the new ferrule. He contacted Feierabend and began using theSuper Z on all of his rods. Other famous rod makers to use Super Z ferrules included Uslan, PinkyGillum, Paul Young and Orvis, mainly on Model 99 and Wes Jordan rods. In 1965, Feierabend turned his interest in the company over to his twopartners and went back to engineering. In 1965, he hired on with IBM asa new product draftsman and moved West to the company's facility inBoulder, Colorado. One of the two remaining partners was seriouslyinjured in an auto accident, so they sold the company and the rights tothe Super Z patent to Conolon, a major producer of fiberglass rods onthe West Coast. The new owners planned to mass produce the ferrules butsoon realized that the close tolerances required for a perfect fit couldnot be maintained under mass production conditions using screw machines. Conolon soon sold out to the Garcia Corp., who almost immediately cameup against the same problem, and in turn sold the Super Z patent rightsto Rodon. Rodon was a smaller operation and had more success producingSuper Z ferrules, although their product required hand finishing by thebuyer to achieve the perfect fit for which the Super Z had becomefamous. Eventually, Rodon was acquired by Cortland Line Co., anddescendants of the original Super Z are currently still being produced. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 19 11:40:27 2001 fAJHeMH00123 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:40:22 -0600 19 Nov 2001 09:40:16 PST Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive how do you flatten the tabs on the ferrule using thismethod and plyobond? timothy --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: One thing to consider when using this method is tonot allow the Pliobond tocook off to any great degree. Being neoprene based, ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Nov 19 11:58:35 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAJHwZH01138 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:58:35 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:58:34 -0600 Subject: Tiger Snakes, Was "Sick" - who said "sick"? OK, Tony and Peter, for the sake of us Podians, what is a Tiger Snake? Isthe bit venemous? Barry from jhewittiii@springsips.com Mon Nov 19 12:00:22 2001 fAJI0MH01372 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:00:22 - BYHU.star2.net Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:52:56 -0500 Subject: C.W. Jenkins? List,Does anyone have contact information for Steve or C.W. Jenkins?Thanks,John from beaconplumb@earthlink.net Mon Nov 19 12:03:30 2001 fAJI3TH01844 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:03:30 - ([63.214.123.6] helo=earthlink.net) id 165slR-00009m-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:03:25 -0800 Subject: Kosmic White Ivroid reelseat... A functional alternative is to turn your own reelseat from AmericanHolly. The wood is almost white and so fine grained that is looks likeivory. Looks very nice with varnish rubbed in and the wood is relativelyhard. Willis from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 19 12:05:08 2001 fAJI57H02092 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:05:07 - 19 Nov 2001 10:05:07 PST Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/wildlife/reptile/tigr.htmltry this ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com from harms1@pa.net Mon Nov 19 12:05:34 2001 fAJI5XH02247 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:05:33 - Subject: Re: re Super-Z ferrules Ron, Thanks for locating that article. It isn't quit true, however, thatFeierabend invented a revolutionary new concept in ferrules. The earlier,"Swiss-type" ferrule had been around since the 1930s and offeredessentiallythe same thing to rod-builders. That ferrule never became popular, however, for reasons that are unknown.Herter shows a drawing (in his 1949 rod-building manual) of the earlierSwiss-type ferrule, explaning that its lack of popularity was due toexcessive manufacturing costs, and that rod-builders were already tooled upto make the more conventional step-down ferrules. This strikes me as amostunconvincing explanation. The only visible difference I can detect between it and Feierabend's"Super-Z" is that, on the female half of the Swiss-type ferrule, we lack thenicely tapered transition across the inner and outer tubing. Surely, theremust be other differences that one can't see from a mere drawing, since thetapering variation, by itself, would hardly seem to warrant a new patent.Even so, the "Super-Z" (as excellent a ferrule as it may be) was not quite arevolutionary new concept. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: re Super-Z ferrules I found this story on the net a few years ago: Super Z Ferrules The famous and now-historic Super Z ferrule was the brainchild of LouisFeierabend, inventor of a revolutionary new concept in ferrules, oftensaid to be the only original concept in ferrule design since before1900. Feierabend was a mechanical engineer with an established career inaeronautical engineering and worked for a naval armament plant duringWorld War II. However, before the war Feierabend found himselfunemployed as the nation struggled to recover from the Depression, andhe ended up owning and operating a small retail fishing shop, RocklandTackle Co. in Hillburn, N.Y. This brief venture exposed him to fishing tackle and introduced him tomany local fishermen and craftsmen building bamboo fly rods. He had theopportunity to work with Nat Uslan designing milling and rod windingequipment for the unique 5-strip Uslan rods. He also worked for a briefperiod of time with Jim Payne, whom he says was the greatest naturalcraftsman he ever met. During the final years of the war, Feierabend decided to go into thebusiness of producing ferrules to meet the demand of increased rodproduction in the U. S. He realized even then that fiberglass rods werethe coming trend and that existing ferrule designs with serrated flatsto accommodate bamboo would not work on the round shaft of productionglass rods. By 1948 he had completed the master drawings for a completeseries of his new round ferrules and submitted them for patent. Themajor advantage of his new design was that, in addition to being shorterand stronger, it used the same diameter for both the tip and the buttferrules -- reducing the tooling required to make ferrules of twodifferent sizes. Finally U. S. Patent #2,600,629 was issued on June 17,1952. By then, the three had set up business as Super Z ManufacturingCo. in Pearl River, N. Y. The Super Z name was derived from an engineering term wherein "Z" is acontraction symbol for section modulus, which is what gives his ferruleits superior strength. Feierabend also designed the logo with the wordSuper running through the large Z. The initial Super Z ferrules produced Everett Garrison, whose rod shop was just across the Hudson River, wasthe first major rod maker to realize the advantage of the Super Z.Garrison was a structural engineer who immediately understood theconcept of the new ferrule. He contacted Feierabend and began using theSuper Z on all of his rods. Other famous rod makers to use Super Z ferrules included Uslan, PinkyGillum, Paul Young and Orvis, mainly on Model 99 and Wes Jordan rods. In 1965, Feierabend turned his interest in the company over to his twopartners and went back to engineering. In 1965, he hired on with IBM asa new product draftsman and moved West to the company's facility inBoulder, Colorado. One of the two remaining partners was seriouslyinjured in an auto accident, so they sold the company and the rights tothe Super Z patent to Conolon, a major producer of fiberglass rods onthe West Coast. The new owners planned to mass produce the ferrules butsoon realized that the close tolerances required for a perfect fit couldnot be maintained under mass production conditions using screw machines. Conolon soon sold out to the Garcia Corp., who almost immediately cameup against the same problem, and in turn sold the Super Z patent rightsto Rodon. Rodon was a smaller operation and had more success producingSuper Z ferrules, although their product required hand finishing by thebuyer to achieve the perfect fit for which the Super Z had becomefamous. Eventually, Rodon was acquired by Cortland Line Co., anddescendants of the original Super Z are currently still being produced. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Nov 19 12:15:04 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAJIF3H03241 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:15:03 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:15:02 -0600 Subject: RE: Tiger Snakes Thanks! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/wildlife/reptile/tigr.htmltry this ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Nov 19 12:21:16 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAJILGH03674 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:21:16 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:21:16 -0600 Subject: RE: Standard or Truncated? Haven't seen responses to this yet but it's a great question. I'll add to it-- in a truncated ferrule, is it just the bamboo-mounting section that'sshorter, or is the male/female contact also shorter? (Hard to writequestions about ferrules suitable for a family-safe list....) Barry -----Original Message----- So once again the question comes up.Standard or Truncated? any real reason to use either or not to? Adam Vigil from darrell@vFish.net Mon Nov 19 12:29:45 2001 fAJITjH04291 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:29:45 -0600 Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:29:36 -0600 Subject: RE: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Thanks guys, I have found a source for it.... $1,782 for a 1" sheet of thestuff... however, he says they changed the formula about 5 years ago so itis now VERY White... I am waiting to see a sample. This stuff is verypricey... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Kosmic White Ivoriod reel seat Texas Knife Supply, www.texasknife.com , has an ivory colored paper basedmicarta block, 1 1/8" x 1 1/2" x 5", for $ 14.95. It is said that it willnot yellow with age. They also sell a white colored linen based micarta butit is only 3/8" thick. BUT . . . they also have an "Alternative Ivory" thatis $ 15.95 per block. M-D Tony, Koval Knives sells some micarta to make knife handles but no white micarta. They've go something called K-carta that they say will look like it afteraging. http://www.kovalknives.com/ Maybe some of the other knife making suppliers would have it. Tim from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Nov 19 13:46:58 2001 fAJJkwH07464 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:46:58 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive Steve Trauthwein I was at the local hardware store and was checking out glues and I sawpilobond and one of the main uses is for fishing rods.. At least thats whatthe package says... Now I will have to buy it.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive Which of the Pliobond products are you using? =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message -----From: "Dave Collyer" Cc: "RodmakersPost" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 6:35 PMSubject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive I score the inside with a small file, clean with acetone, glue with golf shafting epoxy. No failures to date. Regards, Steve I snug fit the ferrule to cane, clean inside of ferrule with lacguerthinner, apply Pliobond to cane, fit ferrule on cane, remove ferrule andheat, flash the pilobond on cane, press heated ferrule in place and it'sready to fish. No pin required and produces a very durable and flexible bond between cane and ferrule, plus it can be removed with a little heat ifneeded. I learned this from the late Paul Hightower, Granger, Wright &McGill, Phillipson and DeBell all use this method with great success... Take Care, Dave from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 19 15:16:59 2001 fAJLGwH12115 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:16:58 -0600 Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:16:52 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: pinning ferrules FILETIME=[827441E0:01C1713F] M-D, thanks for the details. If its ok for a thunder bucket, it must be =good. Probably smells better than plio-bond also. john ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Yes, but it was formulated particularly for the glass bedding. It really =is some good stuff. I've just never seen any of its mechanical, nor physi=cal properties listed, so haven't used it for ferrules.On that note, as Ralph O'Quinn, of Trondak UB-40, pointed out to me once,=it really doesn't take much at all to hold a ferrule in place. Even the =pin, with no adhesive at all will do it, as there is very little stress o=n the ferrule joint itself, except when separating them. The problem, as =I see it, is getting a rather permanent adhesion, in a variety of scenari=os. True enough, any number of adhesives will work, but surely some must =have more duration, and more tenacity in harsh conditions, such as sub-fr=eezing weather.The use of the Scotchbrite goes a long way towards creating a more durabl=e bond, on the molecular level, than does any other method of abrasion, a=nd for removing oils, alcohol is better than acetone. M-D Thanks, M-D. Is it really intended as an adhesive? john It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's for use in glass bedding rifles, and an= M-D What is AccraGlas? sme= ----- Original Message ----- From: Jojo DeLancier Sent:Monda= y, November 19, 2001 11:19 AM To= that note, = y doesn't take much at all to hold a ferrule in place. Even the pin, with=no adhesive at all will do it, as there is very little stress on the fer=rule joint itself, except when separating them. The problem, as I see it,=is getting a rather permanent adhesion, in a variety of scenarios. True =enough, any number of adhesives will work, but surely some must havemore=duration, and more tenacity in harsh conditions, such as sub-freezing we=ather. The us=e of the Scotchbrite goes a long way towards creating a more durable bond=, on the molecular level, than does any other method of abrasion, and&nbs=p;for removing oils, alcohol is better than From: John It is an epoxy sold by Brownell's for use in glass bedding=rifles, and any number of other things related to firearms. www.brownells.com M-DFrom: John Long &nbs=p;What isAccraGlas? from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Mon Nov 19 15:58:04 2001 fAJLvxH14222 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:58:03 - Subject: varnish included? Oh great and almighty listguy Please inform a poor and humble rodmaker if/if not varnish is includedin the taper numbers, when no comment about this has been written.And thanks for a number of new tapers included in the archive. regards, carsten jorgensen Oh great and almighty =listguy Please inform a poor and humble = varnish is includedin the taper numbers, when nocomment = has been written.And thanks for a number of new tapers= the archive. regards, carsten =jorgensen from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Nov 19 17:03:56 2001 fAJN3qH17321 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:03:55 - v4.1.40/v4171. . Clean. Processed in 0.418072 secs); 19 Nov 200123:03:51 -0000 Subject: Re: Standard or Truncated? The male/female slide (consummation) is shorter . Also the shoulder. Veryniceon 3 pc. rods and 2 pc. rods 6' and under.Marty"Kling, Barry W." wrote: Haven't seen responses to this yet but it's a great question. I'll add to it-- in a truncated ferrule, is it just the bamboo-mounting section that'sshorter, or is the male/female contact also shorter? (Hard to writequestions about ferrules suitable for a family-safe list....) Barry -----Original Message----- So once again the question comes up.Standard or Truncated? any real reason to use either or not to? Adam Vigil from RFNUNN@aol.com Mon Nov 19 18:01:04 2001 fAK013H19406 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:01:03 - for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:00:59 - Subject: illumination Now that the natural light, after work, is gone for the winter, what is the best workshop illumination?Also, how do I get into the archives?Thanx,BOB NUNN Now that the natural light, after work, is gone for the winter, what is thebest workshop illumination? from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 19 18:12:03 2001 fAK0C2H19871 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:12:02 - (authenticated) Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:11:35 -0800 Subject: Re: illumination --------------1BDCA5EA55CF8D69A78B94F7 RFNUNN@aol.com wrote: Now that the natural light, after work, is gone for thewinter, what is the best workshop illumination?Also, how do I get into the archives?Thanx, Bob, You can get in the archives through this website:http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html . It's the linkat the bottom named RM archives. Wish I could help you on the lighting question. I useboth fluorescent and incandescent lights in my little shop.Neither is perfect. But as long as I have plenty of light,I do okay, no matter what its source. Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------1BDCA5EA55CF8D69A78B94F7 RFNUNN@aol.com wrote: that the natural light, after work, is gone for the winter, what is thebest workshop illumination? Also,how do I get into the archives?Thanx, Bob, http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/index.html no matter what its source. --Harry Boyd --------------1BDCA5EA55CF8D69A78B94F7-- from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 18:45:44 2001 fAK0jhH21002 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:45:43 -0600 Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:45:30 -0800 Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:45:30 GMT Subject: 4 String Binder FILETIME=[A7788D30:01C1715C] To All binder. I'm interested in one, but only if it will produce straighter blanks thenthe current Garrison type binder that I'm now using. I'm not looking forsomething different, I'm looking for something better. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Nov 19 19:05:59 2001 fAK15vH21943 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:05:57 - Subject: Ferrules and Cement To the Lost fitting. First it was Reed's Ferruleflex (anyone remember Reed's ?), and =then Weldwood Contact Cement, flammable (That's important . The =fireproof type is NG). I played around with Pliobond which is great for = Economy Ferrules: Back in the fiberglass era stamped or formed (not =sure of nomenclature) super Z type nickel silver ferrules were comon as =dirt. The old original Orvis sold them for less than a buck a set. I =used them a lot and they are indeed survivors. Perhaps some on the list =who have connections with metal-working shops would consider tooling up =since the demand is probably there now. Would be great. Bill To the Lost cements for ferrule fitting. First it was Reed's Ferruleflex (anyone = Reed's ?), and then Weldwood Contact Cement, flammable (That's important= fireproof type is NG). I played around with Pliobond which is great for = and things but found Weldwood to be superior for ferrules. stamped or formed (not sure of nomenclature) super Z type nickel silver = were comon as dirt. The old original Orvis sold them for less than a = I used them a lot and they are indeed survivors. Perhaps some on the = Bill from rextutor@about.com Mon Nov 19 19:13:13 2001 fAK1DCH22324 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:13:12 - (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: illumination The shop I work in was a cr shop - It has 6 banks of floresent. I never count on it for colors but it seems to be ok.go to the following URL to search the achiveshttp://www.uwm.edu/%7Estetzer/rma/rmsearch.html Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from CALucker@aol.com Mon Nov 19 19:25:35 2001 fAK1PYH22945 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:25:34 -0600 Subject: Re: 4 String Binder I use a 4 string binder, sort of like the one I designed that appeared in the Planing Form in 1994 and the Best of the Planing Form. I kind of copied Dawn Holbrook's, Tony Maslan's, and Dickerson's binders. I made the binder as an improvement over Bob Milward's great design. The only thing I did not like about Bob's design is that his has the to disks facing each other -- mine, (Winston's, Dickerson's Powell's and on and on) have one disk inside another so that you can easily get your hands and fingers where the action is. My section come out straight, especially if you start tips skinny end first.All that being said, I have never had any problem with the Garrison binder, either. I just like making machines.The last rod I made I glued the old fashioned way -- by hand with the string tenshion being my foot trapping the binding string against the floor.Chris Lucker I use a 4 string binder, did not like about Bob's design is that his has the to disks facing each other - - mine, (Winston's, Dickerson's Powell's and on and on) have one disk insideanother so that you can easily get your hands and fingers where the action end first.All that being said, I have never had any problem with the Garrison The last rod I made I glued the old fashioned way -- by hand with thestring tenshion being my foot trapping the binding string against the floor.Chris Lucker from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 19:36:53 2001 fAK1arH23489 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:36:53 -0600 helo=default) id 165zqC-0007o4-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:36:48 -0500 Subject: Re: illumination Yeah, fluorescent lights wreak havoc on colors, but they are great for =throwing shadows, for lack of a better term, so as to highlight flaws in =a finish. Rex, your link didn't show up as a hot link in my browser, so on the =off- chance that this may have occurred with others, here's the link = M-D colors but it seems to be ok.go to the following URL to search the achiveshttp://www.uwm.edu/%7Estetzer/rma/rmsearch.html Yeah, fluorescent = havoc on colors, but they are great for throwing shadows, for lack of a = Rex, your link didn't = hot link in my browser, so on the off-chance that this may have occurred = others, here's the link again. www.uwm.edu/~stetz= M-D Rex= The shop I work in was a cr shop - It has 6 = floresent. I never count on it for colors but it seems to be = to the following URL to search the achiveshttp://www.uwm.e=du/%7Estetzer/rma/rmsearch.html from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 19:40:51 2001 fAK1eoH23781 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:40:50 -0600 helo=default) id 165zu1-0005mv-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:40:46 -0500 Subject: Re: 4 String Binder I built a version of Milward's binder, photos of which my be seen on =Todd Talsma's Tips web site, but were I to build another binder I =believe I'd make one of Chris's design, for exactly the reasons he =stated. M-D I use a 4 string binder, sort of like the one I designed that appeared =in the Planing Form in 1994 and the Best of the Planing Form. I kind =of copied Dawn Holbrook's, Tony Maslan's, and Dickerson's binders. I =made the binder as an improvement over Bob Milward's great design. The =only thing I did not like about Bob's design is that his has the to =disks facing each other -- mine, (Winston's, Dickerson's Powell's and on =and on) have one disk inside another so that you can easily get your =hands and fingers where the action is. My section come out straight, = All that being said, I have never had any problem with the Garrison = The last rod I made I glued the old fashioned way -- by hand with the =string tenshion being my foot trapping the binding string against the = I built a version of = were I to build another binder I believe I'd make one of Chris's design, = exactly the reasons he stated. M-D I use a 4 = binder, sort of like the one I designed that appeared in the Planing = like about Bob's design is that his has the to disks facing each other = mine, (Winston's, Dickerson's Powell's and on and on) have one disk = another so that you can easily get your hands and fingers where the = first. All that being said, I have never had any problem with the = glued the old fashioned way -- by hand with the string tenshion being = trapping the binding string against the floor. Chris Lucker = from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Mon Nov 19 20:08:05 2001 fAK27xH24813 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:07:59 - SAA09098 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:07:58 - SAA11425 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:07:58 - fAK282M20080 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:08:02 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:07:57 -0800 Subject: china well gentlemen, here I am in beautiful down town Xiamen china and there istonkin cane every where. they use it for scaffolding and furniture.beautiful stuff with great power fiber. trying to see if I can get some butit's hard to do when you're working 12 hours a day. my post on the forms was meant to say that some of us would rather spendourspare time building rods or going fishing, and that my time spent doingthose things is extremely more valuable than filing cold roll steel but notevery body feels that way. the bottom line is that time is money whether itbe your hours at work or your hours at home, the dollar value, even if youare salaried, is how much an hour you earn at your job. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Mon Nov 19 21:01:15 2001 fAK31FH26150 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:01:15 - Subject: Bob's rabbit sauce Bob's story reminds me of what happened to me around 1980.I used to run a charter fishing boat here on Lake Champlain.Well at the =end of the day I would clean the sports fish and put the guts in a 5 =gallon bucket,which I would put in my home garbage and latter on take to =the dump. This nice hot August day I had emptied the contents into a green garbage =bag and put that into the garbage can. My wife came home from work about=the third day this concoction had been brewing and she figured she would =do me a favor and go to the dump .Upon placing the green bag in the =trunk ,it split open spilling all those nice smelling juices all over =the trunk . The smell was so bad inside the car ,my wife would ride in rain storms =and snow storms with the windows open. We tried everything to get rid of = Finally ,in November , I was told to get rid of the car or she would =leave it in the parking lot at the hospital and buy another . Being the good guy I am , I did get a trade in allowance for it . Twenty =five dollars.Not bad huh! So from that time on I never brought fish guts =home again. Jim Bob's story reminds me of whathappened = around 1980.I used to run a charter fishing boat = Champlain.Well at the end of the day I would clean the sports fish and = guts in a 5 gallon bucket,which I would put in my home garbage and = take to the dump. This nice hot August day I had emptied= into a green garbage bag and put that into the garbage can. My wife came = from work about the third day this concoction had been brewing and she = she would do me a favor and go to the dump .Upon placing the green bag = trunk ,it split open spilling all those nice smelling juices all over = . The smell was so bad inside the car ,my= ride in rain storms and snow storms with the windows open. We tried = to get rid of the smell, but couldn't. Finally ,in November , I was told to = car or she would leave it in the parking lot at the hospital and buy = . Being the good guy I am , I did get a = allowance for it . Twenty five dollars.Not bad huh! So from that time on = brought fish guts home again. Jim from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Nov 19 21:02:41 2001 fAK32fH26307 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:02:41 - helo=bitch) id 1661BD-0001be-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:02:35 -0500 Subject: Non-rodmaking---search for lost child Guys,A friend of mine sent me a picture of a little lost girl and I wanted to =clear it with you guys before I send the info to the list--I don't want =anybody getting bent out of shape because this won't concern rodmaking.Let me know if it's OK to send,Mike Guys,A friend of mine sent me a picture of a= girl and I wanted to clear it with you guys before I send the info to = list--I don't want anybody getting bent out of shape because this won't = rodmaking.Let me know if it's OK to =send,Mike from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Nov 19 21:07:53 2001 fAK37rH26711 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:07:53 - sender ) Subject: Re: Standard or Truncated? Barry, 14/64 the male slide would be .832" long, add to it a minimum of 1/4" forserrations and wrap that would be 1.1" (mine is 1.25") for the male. Thefemale slide length is usually 4*bamboo diameter to accomodote the maleslide and a small air space. The bamboo side I usually keep it the same.So for that same ferrule the female would be .875" +.875" +.03"(separator)= 1.78".So with that basic rule (3.8 * D) ,all other dimensions kinda fall intoline. If I was to make a truncated, I would use something like 3 instead of3.8. That said, I would not do this. 1 3/4" is not very big for 14 ferruleand when together its about 2.25". I'm pretty sure REC's is longer if Iremember right. Never seen CSE or Bellinger's so I can not comment.So to answer your question, the business end is what gets shorter, becauseyou'll still need about a 1/4" for serrations and wraps, so the only placeto shorten the male would be the slide. So then the female slide could getshorter, so while you're at it shorten the bamboo side. What to low limitis, I don't know. Hope this helps....Tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Standard or Truncated? Haven't seen responses to this yet but it's a great question. I'll add to it -- in a truncated ferrule, is it just the bamboo-mounting section that'sshorter, or is the male/female contact also shorter? (Hard to writequestions about ferrules suitable for a family-safe list....) Barry -----Original Message----- So once again the question comes up.Standard or Truncated? any real reason to use either or not to? Adam Vigil from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Nov 19 21:18:33 2001 fAK3IWH27197 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:18:32 - helo=bitch) id 1661QZ-0000Xz-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:18:27 -0500 Subject: Tony Miller--please buzz me back ASAP !!!! Mike Shaffer Tony,Jojo just told me you had a run in with this lost child attachment. He =said you got a virus opening it. I haven't sent it out to anyone, so if =you can buzz me back and tell me what's up before I send it out I would =appreciate it!Thanks,Mike Tony,Jojo just told me you had a run in with = it out to anyone, so if you can buzz me back and tell me what's up = it out I would appreciate it!Thanks,Mike from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Mon Nov 19 21:57:31 2001 fAK3vUH28157 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:57:30 - fAK3vS211199; Subject: Re: illumination I find a combo of both works well, And I in a two bulb flourescent, I use a regular bulb and a bulb designed for use as a grow lamp, gives off a different spectrum of light closer to sunlight, much easier on the eyes from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Nov 19 22:18:30 2001 fAK4IPH28851 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:18:25 - helo=bitch) id 1662Ma-00042X-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:18:25 -0500 Subject: No go on missing child. Well, seems some of you object so I won't go any further with this, and =I hope YOU never get into this situation!!!! Have a nice day!Mike Well, seems some of you object so I = further with this, and I hope YOU never get into this situation!!!! Have = day!Mike from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Nov 19 22:31:34 2001 fAK4VXH29332 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:31:33 - 19 Nov 2001 20:31:29 PST Subject: Re: No go on missing child. i'm not sure why anyone would object to a fella tryingto be consider of his neighbors. timothy --- michael shaffer wrote: Well, seems some of you object so I won't go anyfurther with this, and I hope YOU never get intothis situation!!!! Have a nice day!Mike ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from SBDunn@aol.com Mon Nov 19 22:38:33 2001 fAK4cWH29757 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:38:32 - for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:38:27 - Subject: Power Beveller Question Is there an advantage to which way the cane strips are fed to a beveller? Do I want the router to try and pull the cane out of my hands or do I want it to push pack at me? Thanks in advance, Steve. from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Nov 19 22:41:09 2001 fAK4f7H29965 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:41:08 - Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:39:10 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:39:10 +0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu, RFNUNN@aol.comSubject: RE: illumination I use things called 'daylight globes'. They look like a normal incandescentlight bulb, but are supposed to closely replicate natural daylight. Notsure if they are used as 'grow lights'. I first discovered them when I wasdoing my degree back in the early eighties and used to do all-night stintswriting papers. They give off great light and are much easier on the oldoptics than anything else I've used. They're available at any decentlighting supplier down here in Oz. from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Nov 19 22:57:20 2001 fAK4vJH00670 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:57:19 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Low angle plane Yup, another plane question! I think I am going to need counseling afterthis. Ralph Moon has kindly offered his services, but his rates are toohigh! My question is this, does anyone use a low angle plane? If so, for whichpurpose is it best suited? I know Garrison used one, but it seems to methat he was kind of a plane nut (no offence intended). But then, he was anengineer... Anyway, I now have one, as well as a nice new Record with aHock blade, and I would like to know if it is worth keeping or trading in. So, if anyone knows of a good cut rate therapist, let me know. Maybe Icould trade him a cane rod! Jason from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 23:15:24 2001 fAK5FOH01265 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:15:24 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:15:18 -0800 Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:15:18 GMT Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question FILETIME=[585D4800:01C17182] Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from splitcane@home.com Mon Nov 19 23:22:01 2001 fAK5M0H01563 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:22:00 - ;Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:21:56 -0800 "Steve Trauthwein" Subject: Re: Inside ferrule prep / ferrule adhesive Hi John, Glad I could be of help to the list, if there are any other =questions just drop me a line... Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net Dave, thanks for the reply. It puts a whole new meaning to "hot =gluing" and I think I'll try it. I have heard of others using Pliobond, =but never this way. Leon Hansen uses Pliobond and claims it gives a bit =of a cushion and eliminates the cracking of the finish at the = Hi John, Glad I could be of help to the = there are any other questions just drop me a line... Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net ----- Original Message ----- John = Joe ; Steve Trauthwein claims it gives a bit of a cushion and eliminates the cracking of the = from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 23:24:42 2001 fAK5OfH01714 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:24:41 -0600 helo=default) id 1663Oi-00052o-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:24:40 -0500 Subject: Re: illumination The 'grow' lights are fluorescent lights, but there is a bulb sold in theStates, manufactured by GE, called Reveal. These are supposed to uncoverpure, true light, according to the hype, by filtering out some of the yellowspectrum, thus producing a cleaner, whiter-looking light. I use things called 'daylight globes'. They look like a normal incandescent light bulb, but are supposed to closely replicate natural daylight. Notsure if they are used as 'grow lights'. I first discovered them when I was doing my degree back in the early eighties and used to do all-night stintswriting papers. They give off great light and are much easier on the oldoptics than anything else I've used. They're available at any decentlighting supplier down here in Oz. from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Nov 19 23:28:37 2001 fAK5SZH01986 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:28:35 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:28:31 -0500 Subject: Re: No go on missing child I hope you got my email on the info you requested. please email me off list and I'll try to help. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Mike I hope you got my email on the info you requested.If there is anything I can do to help you with the missing child = please email me off list and I'll try to help.Best regards Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 19 23:30:41 2001 fAK5UfH02184 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:30:41 -0600 helo=default) id 1663UW-0003XX-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:30:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question I prefer feeding into the cutter, with the cutter rotating towards the work,rather that a climb cut with the cutter rotating away from the work. M-D Is there an advantage to which way the cane strips are fed to a beveller? Do I want the router to try and pull the cane out of my hands or do I want it to push pack at me? Thanks in advance, Steve. from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 19 23:36:12 2001 fAK5aBH02562 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:36:11 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Marty, You are probably right. I got the Edwards make from an old for sale list onthe Internet at Gorp.com something or other. The description was for anEdwards 'Radio' and proceeded to describe my rod to a T. It wouldn'tsurpriseme that my grandfather, although a lawyer, would spend only a few bucks onafishing rod. The ferrules are nice and nicely welted although I think they aredrawn. The reelseat is indeed full N/S with 'Radio' in script stamped on it.The only marking on the cane is a decal from the local fine sporting goodsshopwhich was likely put on after the rod was shipped to the retailer. Glad toknow more of the rod. Yours has the nicely done swelled butt, about 150intermediates, and black/white jasper thread on the ferrules, guides,signaturewrap, and cork check? Rick C. "Marty D. aka \"none" wrote: Please forgive me if I'm wrong but I believe the Radio rod was sold throughEK Tryon of Philadelphia and was manufactured by Montague. It is a highgrade Montague however with high grade machine welted ferrules. I have a9'er stamped RADIO in fancy script on the full NS seat.Marty Rick wrote: Tony, My grandfather's old Edwards Radio (9' 3/2, 5wt) has very nice ferrules,but the male on the mid is cracked 3/4 way around the slide joint RIGHTAT THE PIN. Check on your rods after 30 or 40 years. I use Brownell's AccraGlas (in green box) and those who've seen my rodsknow that I leave my ferrules tight -too tight actually. I've had tofour hand those suckers more than once. With all the tugging, I'venever had an indication of a failure much less have a ferrule pull offthe cane. I tried this stuff after John Channer indicated in a postthat he uses it. I believe in this stuff 100%. Rick C. Tony Miller wrote: HarryWhy do you think it's the weakest point?The stress may be higherat the ferrule.But that doesn't necessarily translate into the weakestpart.And rods that break usually break just ahead of the ferrule.Thatcould be caused by leverage and a whole other list of factors.The pinis farther up on the ferrule. I've never seen a NS ferrule break inhalf.or the cane under it. In front of the ferrule ,YES.Plus you fillthe whole with a pin.It's just like welding two plates together, mostpeople think the weld is the weakest part. But it's not, it's themetal to either side of the weld that is the weakest point.bestregardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 19 23:39:23 2001 fAK5dMH02763 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:39:22 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules No, Steve, I haven't and that's a very good question. John? Steve Trauthwein wrote: I use Brownell's AccraGlas (in green box) and those who've seen my rodsknow that I leave my ferrules tight -too tight....... Rick, Have you had to take a ferrule off with the AccraGlas? Was it difficult,easy? Regards, Steve from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Nov 19 23:47:44 2001 fAK5liH03142 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:47:44 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:47:35 -0500 Subject: Re: pinning ferrules So were the ferrules on it brass or nickel silver or NS plated brass?If they were brass this could account for the breakage.Just curious:))Also I forgot to add that the common practice was to only pin through =one side. The pinning that most makers do today is all the way though =the ferrules and cane. Is the pinning all the way through on those =ferrules? Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Rick brass?If they were brass this could account for the breakage.Just curious:))Also I forgot to add that the common practice was to only pin = ferrules and cane. Is the pinning all the way through on those =ferrules?best regards Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from stpete@netten.net Tue Nov 20 00:00:24 2001 fAK60NH03662 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:00:23 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Tony, I believe the pins were only through one side, but I'd have to gocheck to be certain. The ferrules are nickel silver. Rick C. Tony Miller wrote: RickSo were the ferrules on it brass or nickel silver or NS platedbrass?If they were brass this could account for the breakage.Justcurious:))Also I forgot to add that the common practice was to onlypin through one side. The pinning that most makers do today is allthe way though the ferrules and cane. Is the pinning all the waythrough on those ferrules?best regardsTonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from homes-sold@home.com Tue Nov 20 00:29:10 2001 fAK6T9H04657 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:29:09 - femail25.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:29:08 -0800 Subject: Re: No go on missing child. Mike,How can I help?Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: No go on missing child. i'm not sure why anyone would object to a fella tryingto be consider of his neighbors. timothy --- michael shaffer wrote: Well, seems some of you object so I won't go anyfurther with this, and I hope YOU never get intothis situation!!!! Have a nice day!Mike ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Nov 20 01:37:09 2001 fAK7b8H06276 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:37:08 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:36:51 -0800 Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:36:50 GMT KlingB@health.missouri.eduSubject: Re: Standard or Truncated? FILETIME=[1E52A3D0:01C17196] CSE TruncatedBellinger( original super Z length)CSE StandardI used one set of REC and disliked them and thankfully cannot remember how they fit into the picture The longer the ferrule the more tolerant they are of misuse, abuse and the just plain silly things that people do to themA.J. From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Subject: Re: Standard or Truncated?Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:09:35 -0500 Barry, 14/64 the male slide would be .832" long, add to it a minimum of 1/4" forserrations and wrap that would be 1.1" (mine is 1.25") for the male. Thefemale slide length is usually 4*bamboo diameter to accomodote the maleslide and a small air space. The bamboo side I usually keep it the same.So for that same ferrule the female would be .875" +.875" + .03"(separator)= 1.78".So with that basic rule (3.8 * D) ,all other dimensions kinda fall intoline. If I was to make a truncated, I would use something like 3 instead of3.8. That said, I would not do this. 1 3/4" is not very big for 14 ferruleand when together its about 2.25". I'm pretty sure REC's is longer if Iremember right. Never seen CSE or Bellinger's so I can not comment.So to answer your question, the business end is what gets shorter, becauseyou'll still need about a 1/4" for serrations and wraps, so the only placeto shorten the male would be the slide. So then the female slide could getshorter, so while you're at it shorten the bamboo side. What to low limitis, I don't know. Hope this helps....Tom ----- Original Message -----From: Kling, Barry W. Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 1:21 PMSubject: RE: Standard or Truncated? Haven't seen responses to this yet but it's a great question. I'll add toit -- in a truncated ferrule, is it just the bamboo-mounting section that'sshorter, or is the male/female contact also shorter? (Hard to writequestions about ferrules suitable for a family-safe list....) Barry -----Original Message----- So once again the question comes up.Standard or Truncated? any real reason to use either or not to? Adam Vigil _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Nov 20 01:47:33 2001 fAK7lVH06590 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:47:31 - Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:47:26 -0800 Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:47:26 GMT Subject: Re: Ferrules and Cement FILETIME=[9903AD80:01C17197] I think that you are talking about drawn ferrules, in theory(heh, heh) Good quality drawn ferrules were used on the like of Granger, Phillipson, Heddon, lousy ones on down. They tended to crack a bit more often as they were not stress relieved. Tricky to do at home as there is a fine line between stress relieving and annealing, which you don't want to do. The NS sheet for a set of ferrules will set you back about 20 cents and they are simply drawn in a few seconds. BUT you have to have a set of die plates and punches made, probably in carbide as HSS will wear and have to be replaced too often for a part that has to be made to such close tolerance. I have thought about it but it is an awfully big project for one builder to undertake and the conventional wisdom is that drawn ferrules are second rate. Not something I agree with but bucking the headwind of perdjudice is more than I want to take on right now.A.J. From: "William R. Fink" Subject: Ferrules and CementDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:36:31 -0500 To the Lost First it was Reed's Ferruleflex (anyone remember Reed's ?), and then Weldwood Contact Cement, flammable (That's important . The fireprooftype is NG). I played around with Pliobond which is great for knots and things but found Weldwood to be superior for ferrules.Economy Ferrules: Back in the fiberglass era stamped or formed (not sure of nomenclature) super Z type nickel silver ferrules were comon as dirt. The old original Orvis sold them for less than a buck a set. I used them a lot and they are indeed survivors. Perhaps some on the list who have connections with metal-working shops would consider tooling up since the demand is probably there now. Would be great. Bill _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 01:51:11 2001 fAK7p3H06875 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:51:04 - rodmakers Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes I just read that and I beg to differ in the points of them not going after people and them preferring to go away when in contact with people. I guess most may but enough don't to make me wonder about the essay.Must have been written by the same biologist who writes Great Whites don't like to eat people and crocks would prefer to stay away from people too. Good PR but I have to wonder because we've got a hell of a lot of different snakes all over the place here and you hardly ever see them but go to Tassie in Summer and .........I know I've never seen a snake strike at moving cars before seeing one there.At least the essay says the venom will top you.What do you reckon Pete? At 10:05 AM 11/19/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/wildlife/reptile/tigr.htmltry this ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Nov 20 02:01:53 2001 fAK81pH07190 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 02:01:51 - Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:01:13 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:01:13 +0800 tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com,KlingB@health.missouri.edu, rodmakers Subject: RE: Tiger Snakes Tony is dead right. A relative of mine was chased by one of these SOBs forover 400 metres; and that included crossing a creek! We have the dubiousdistinction, down here in Oz, of having some of the most venomous snakes inthe world and I don't mind admitting that they scare the sh*t out of me.Doesn't stop me going fishing though [:)] "Tony Young wrote:"I just read that and I beg to differ in the points of them not going after people and them preferring to go away when in contact with people. from rodwrapp@swbell.net Tue Nov 20 02:08:32 2001 fAK88VH07518 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 02:08:31 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Tony Miller--please buzz me back ASAP !!!! Mike Shaffer You guys that want to post pictures about stuff there are free web sitesavailable... I dont open anybodies email from rodmakers that has anattachment I delete the email real quick.. There has been way to many virius ----- Original Message ----- From: michael shaffer PMSubject: Tony Miller--please buzz me back ASAP !!!! Mike Shaffer Tony,Jojo just told me you had a run in with this lost child attachment. He saidyou got a virus opening it. I haven't sent it out to anyone, so if you can buzzme back and tell me what's up before I send it out I would appreciate it!Thanks,Mike You guys that want to post pictures aboutstuff there are free web sites available... I dont open anybodies email from has Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: michael shaffer Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 200112:25 PMSubject: Tony Miller--please buzz meback ASAP !!!! Mike Shaffer Tony,Jojo just told me you had a run in with thislost sent it out to anyone, so if you can buzz me back and tell me what's upbefore I send it out I would appreciate it!Thanks,Mike from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Nov 20 02:37:54 2001 fAK8brH08361 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 02:37:53 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:37:49 +1100 rodmakers Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes FILETIME=[A2FB1560:01C1719E] It was hard to believe that scientific report. Those tigers areregularly aggressive, also in New South Wales! Sean Tony Young wrote: I just read that and I beg to differ in the points of them not going afterpeople and them preferring to go away when in contact with people. I guessmost may but enough don't to make me wonder about the essay.Must have been written by the same biologist who writes Great Whitesdon'tlike to eat people and crocks would prefer to stay away from people too.Good PR but I have to wonder because we've got a hell of a lot of differentsnakes all over the place here and you hardly ever see them but go toTassie in Summer and .........I know I've never seen a snake strike atmoving cars before seeing one there.At least the essay says the venom will top you.What do you reckon Pete? At 10:05 AM 11/19/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/wildlife/reptile/tigr.htmltry this ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from briansr@point-net.com Tue Nov 20 03:30:12 2001 fAK9UBH09018 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:30:11 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:47:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question Hi SteveYes ,they HAVE to go in lenthwise !!CheersBrian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Power Beveller Question Is there an advantage to which way the cane strips are fed to a beveller? Do I want the router to try and pull the cane out of my hands or do I want it to push pack at me? Thanks in advance, Steve. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 05:22:58 2001 fAKBMuH10306 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:22:56 - Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes rodmakers I could be wrong but I think Tasmania's Tourist board has been in a bit of trouble in the past for gilding the Lilly a bit in the past and I think this is a good example. If I'd known they were such warm and cuddly animals I wouldn't have been concerned in the least even while being chased [;-)] This essay makes them seem like "harmless" snakes like Yellow Bellied Blacks" that also kill. Beleive us, if you ever fish in Aust be very aware of Tigers in Tassie and Browns (same snake I believe but could be wrong) in the rest of the country. They are aggressive and will bite and kill. This is no joke just to kid people.There seem to be a lot of these reports by "experts" appearing lately. Here in Perth there are a lot of White Pointer sharks (Great Whites). Every year we hear how they'd prefer to not eat people and they're a much maligned fish but every year people are eaten by them and I know tow people who have had extremely close encounters.Either what you see in the field is imaginary or the "Experts" have it wrong. Guess which I'll believe?I wont even talk about the crocks and I mean the BIG ones the guy in shorts leaves alone. Tony At 07:41 PM 11/20/01 +1100, Sean McSharry wrote: It was hard to believe that scientific report. Those tigers areregularly aggressive, also in New South Wales! Sean Tony Young wrote: I just read that and I beg to differ in the points of them not going afterpeople and them preferring to go away when in contact with people. Iguessmost may but enough don't to make me wonder about the essay.Must have been written by the same biologist who writes Great Whitesdon'tlike to eat people and crocks would prefer to stay away from people too.Good PR but I have to wonder because we've got a hell of a lot ofdifferentsnakes all over the place here and you hardly ever see them but go toTassie in Summer and .........I know I've never seen a snake strike atmoving cars before seeing one there.At least the essay says the venom will top you.What do you reckon Pete? At 10:05 AM 11/19/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/wildlife/reptile/tigr.htmltry this ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personalshttp://personals.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from "Marty D. aka \"none" Tue Nov 20 05:26:41 2001 fAKBQeH10532 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:26:40 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4171. . Clean. Processed in 0.336128 secs); 20 Nov 200111:26:39 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Low angle plane I don't like low angle planes for rod work. They seem to lift nodes more thanstandard planes. Low angle planes are great for composite materials(formica)though. Now this is just my opinion so don't get mad if you use a 60 1/2. Ifall I had was a 60 1/2 I could make a perfectly good blank with it. Martyason Swan wrote: Yup, another plane question! I think I am going to need counseling afterthis. Ralph Moon has kindly offered his services, but his rates are toohigh! My question is this, does anyone use a low angle plane? If so, for whichpurpose is it best suited? I know Garrison used one, but it seems to methat he was kind of a plane nut (no offence intended). But then, he was anengineer... Anyway, I now have one, as well as a nice new Record with aHock blade, and I would like to know if it is worth keeping or trading in. So, if anyone knows of a good cut rate therapist, let me know. Maybe Icould trade him a cane rod! Jason from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Nov 20 05:38:40 2001 fAKBccH11033 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:38:38 - fAKBcJE10343; Subject: Snakes Hello, Tony I actually replied to Barry about this one off the list, but will say this,as I think it applies all around the world - no matter what kind of venomousanimal you are talking about, anywhere on the planet, from Taliban to Tigersnakes, you will find someone, usually someone about half way through a PhDon the subject, who will extol its virtues and will tell you it's a lovableand charming little playmate. These citizens are seriously deranged. The wildlife usually doesn't hateyou, but it doesn't love you either, and it would just as soon kill you asnot, because it doesn't really know the difference. Tiger snakes can kill you, and they will if you give them reason enough. AndI, for one, am buggered if I understand them well enough to interpret theirtheories of aggression and protection, so I would just as soon keep away from them; but I will kill them if I have to, to protect myself, and notregret it at all. I imagine that the same applies to bears, to crocodiles, to big cats, andeven to the large herbivores. We fishhermen pursue our pastime in isolatedand lonely places, often alone or nearly so, and we should always rememberto be cautious, to be kind to the animals if we can possibly be, but in thelast analysis, look out for yourselves first! Examine very critically the feelgood statement made by the park ranger; inmy experience, if it sounds like bull to you, it probably is just that. In the end, one or another of these damn critters will end up eating all ofus; our job is to delay that as long as we possibly can. Peter from gdabrowski@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 05:39:52 2001 fAKBdpH11173 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:39:51 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:39:51 PST Subject: Drawn Ferrules. Was Ferrules and Cement To : A.J. and the list; A while back I looked into the practicality of making drawn ferrulesas an alternative to building them from tube. I have a few friendsin manufacturing businesses. One of whom ran a stamping and drawingjob shop at the time. His tool design skills and experience was mosthelpful. As a manufactured part, the ferrules we employ are amongthe most difficult to make. The have a high aspect ratio, meaningthat their length to diameter ratio is great. While manufacturable,a typical #13 ferrule would require over eight stations and perhapsmore in a transfer press. This eight to ten station (tool group orpunch station) press in not common in many firms. Tooling would costabout three to five thousand per station depending on designed runrates and tool life expectations. The other limiting factor is pressstroke which in this case would need to be about two and a half timesthe ferrule length, needed to form and eject parts from dies. Well designed and built tools will build good parts. The advantageto drawing parts is general is the resultant grain orientation andthe controlled work hardening of the NS resulting with strong partsat the end of the process. Characteristics that are not available from anything made from the solid bar. I've experimented a bit with my own OBI punch press that I use tomake my drawn nickle silver and aluminum cups for reel seat parts.Made a couple single station dies to test draw depth requirements. It's do-able in single station, single operation tools but is themost tedious kind of work I've ever done. In the end its easier tomake ferrules from tube for the quantities I use each year. Gary http://brooksiderod.tripod.com/components.htm --- Allen Thramer wrote: I think that you are talking about drawn ferrules, in theory(heh,heh) Good quality drawn ferrules were used on the like of Granger,Phillipson, Heddon, lousy ones on down. They tended to crack a bit more often as theywere not stress relieved. Tricky to do at home as there is a fine linebetween stress relieving and annealing, which you don't want to do. The NS sheet of ferrules will set you back about 20 cents and they are simplydrawn in a few seconds. BUT you have to have a set of die plates and punchesmade, probably in carbide as HSS will wear and have to be replaced toooften for a part that has to be made to such close tolerance. I have thoughtabout it but it is an awfully big project for one builder to undertake andthe conventional wisdom is that drawn ferrules are second rate. Notsomething I agree with but bucking the headwind of perdjudice is more than Iwant to take on right now.A.J. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 06:03:06 2001 fAKC2xH11725 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:03:00 - tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com, KlingB@health.missouri.edu,rodmakers Subject: RE: Tiger Snakes I've heard the things swim as fast as they can move on land and it's been the cause of some funny photos I've seen of people wading backwards quickly and falling in.I know this isn't rod related but some people may want to fish in Aust some time so I'd like to put a balance on this snake thing in Tassie. All you need to remember from a real world point of view is during Summer when the fishing is done Tigers and Browns are aggressive and will peruseyou.DONT play with them and give way and you'll be ok.Believe the Tasmanian web page if you like but take copy of it and a pencil, make notes and tell the author what you find.I do recommend wearing Horn waders. These are pretty thick. HOWEVER there are some really nice things about fishing in Tassie too. There are some big fish in the lakes and the streams have some nice ones too though not as big and often as not only as big as you'd get in any stream. Lakes are where the big ones seem to be.The scenery is quite amazing and some of it is not to be seen anywhere else in the world. It's got a wild no compromise look and feel to it.There is plenty of true wilderness left and a LOT of wild life like Tassie Devils, wallabies, wombats, snakes etc. My dad and I were fishing in a small stream only 15mins from the nearest post office where we hadn't moved for 5 mins or so when around the bend came a platypus snuffling along on the bottom for food. They don't spend much time looking but use a small electrical charge in their rubber like bills to locate food. It was seeing this that made me decide I needed a waterproof camera for such occasions. That was pretty neat.These are amazing animals to see and unlike the mainland there are still lots there. This particular one come along and snuffled around Dad's feet Tony Tony is dead right. A relative of mine was chased by one of these SOBs forover 400 metres; and that included crossing a creek! We have the dubiousdistinction, down here in Oz, of having some of the most venomous snakesinthe world and I don't mind admitting that they scare the sh*t out of me.Doesn't stop me going fishing though [:)] /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 06:29:34 2001 fAKCTWH12146 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:29:33 - Subject: Re: Snakes Peter,I'm glad you wrote this because I was beginning to wonder if I was getting soft in my old age and was wrong to be intimidated by such a scientifically demonstrateably friendly animal. Something we should tell people not of Australian origin is all native animals are protected unless specifically not so and this includes snakes and I would think spiders etc too so IMHO a lot of this nonsense that is currently being spread is to prevent people attacking and killing snakes on sight which I would not like to see either. Still, it's not really true to say they are harmless either is it?Mike may remember the details better because he stands chest deep in the ocean salt water fly fishing so has a vested interest in these things but wasn't there a 30+ foot White Pointer swimming around a few months backit was assumed had eaten somebody (the mouth bite on the surf boardsuggested it was a big one) and taken the leg of another but the Harbours and Marine didn't shoot it even though it was in plain sight from their chopper and the Chanel 7 News Chopper because it was protected? Still, these things are nothing compared to bears IMHO. Tony Hello, Tony I actually replied to Barry about this one off the list, but will say this,as I think it applies all around the world - no matter what kind of venomousanimal you are talking about, anywhere on the planet, from Taliban to Tigersnakes, you will find someone, usually someone about half way through aPhDon the subject, who will extol its virtues and will tell you it's a lovableand charming little playmate. These citizens are seriously deranged. The wildlife usually doesn't hateyou, but it doesn't love you either, and it would just as soon kill you asnot, because it doesn't really know the difference. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift TipsAvoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label:Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 06:49:10 2001 fAKCn9H12565 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:49:09 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 04:49:00 -0800 Subject: Snakes Down Under FILETIME=[B9EF5060:01C171C1] I guess the moral here is to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach - walk sof=tly and carry a forked stick. John I guess themo=ral here is to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach - walk softly and carry = John from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 07:02:22 2001 fAKD2LH12943 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:02:21 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:02:16 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Low angle plane FILETIME=[944F7040:01C171C3] Low angle planes are/were designed for planing end grain on wood. I trie=d using one and found it to be very comfortable in my hand (my Stanley 60=1/2 is narrower than a 09 1/2) but you do get tearing at nodes. You can=compensate for this somewhat by sharpening the blade at a steeper angle = That's just my experience. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Low angle plane I don't like low angle planes for rod work. They seem to lift nodes more =thanstandard planes. Low angle planes are great for composite materials (form=ica)though. Now this is just my opinion so don't get mad if you use a 60 1/2.=Ifall I had was a 60 1/2 I could make a perfectly good blank with it. Martyason Swan wrote: Low angleplan= ne and found it to be very comfortable in my hand (my Stanley 60 1/2 is n= Y= = ----- Original Message ----- From: Marty D. aka "noneSent: Tuesday, November 20, 20016:28= jvswan@earthlink.net=; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sub= le planes for rod work. They seem to lift nodes more thanstandard pla=nes. Low angle planes are great for composite materials (formica)thou=gh. Now this is just my opinion so don't get mad if you use a 60 1/2. Ifall I had was a 60 1/2 I could make a perfectly good blank with it. Ma= from steve@hamiltonrods.com Tue Nov 20 07:03:12 2001 fAKD3BH13035 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:03:11 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:03:33 -0500 Subject: Re: No go on missing child. FILETIME=[C1F98080:01C171C3] fAKD3BH13036 Let me guess... The missing child is named Penny Brown, right? It's a HOAX. See http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blmiss7.htm. --Steve from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 07:14:36 2001 fAKDEaH13584 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:14:36 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:14:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question FILETIME=[4A248D50:01C171C5] Steve, I think you want a climb cut - have the beveler pull the strip thru but d=on't stand in front of the exit end! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Power Beveller Question Is there an advantage to which way the cane strips are fed to a beveller?=DoI want the router to try and pull the cane out of my hands or do I want i=t topush pack at me? Thanks in advance, Steve. l the strip thru but don't stand in front of the exit end! &nb= riginal Message ----- From: SBDunn@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:02 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Power Beveller a= ane out of my hands or do I want it topush pack atme?Thanks =in advance, Steve. from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 20 07:16:42 2001 fAKDGgH13776 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:16:42 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:26:34 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Steve(and Rick);I have had to remove ferrules glued with Accragls(gel, in the green box)several times, they will come off with heat and a ferrule puller. Heatand try several times carefully, if you get too enthusiastic with theheat the bamboo under the ferrule will explode and the ferrule wil comeoff like it was shot from a gun. Point the ferrule away from you whenyou do this. Just about the time you are ready to give up , puteverything down, turn off the heat gun and go have a beer, or dinner orsomething, and let it all cool down, when you come back it may justslide right off. John Rick wrote: No, Steve, I haven't and that's a very good question. John? Steve Trauthwein wrote: I use Brownell's AccraGlas (in green box) and those who've seen myrodsknow that I leave my ferrules tight -too tight....... Rick, Have you had to take a ferrule off with the AccraGlas? Was it difficult,easy? Regards, Steve from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 07:21:38 2001 fAKDLRH14112 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:21:32 - Subject: Re: No go on missing child. Just read it. Love the bit about loonies demanding ransom. Talk about opportunists. Tony At 08:03 AM 11/20/01 -0500, Steve Zimmerman wrote: Let me guess... The missing child is named Penny Brown, right? It's a HOAX. See http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blmiss7.htm. --Steve /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 20 07:34:46 2001 fAKDYiH14661 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:34:45 - "RodmakersPost" Subject: RE: Power Beveller Question I have the Medved styled JW Beveller and the climb cut works very nicely. Ithink the strip edges are a bit better than the cutting I got on anotherbrand, but it could have been the cutters I bought. The carbide bit used byJW seems to cut extremely well.As to what you say about the strip's exit...I was working in the garage andwas bevelling a strip when I heard a sharp thump on the garage door. Iassumed my daughter had slammed on the door. When I looked down at myglovedhands, there was no strip. It was shot like an arrow into the gargage doorand lay on the floor under a good dent. SO, now I always make sure the dooris closed in case there had been someone in the drive way (Not that I runthe beveller or any tool with anyone playing around it but you never know),and I always wear the gloves of course. I do not find this to be a defect ofthe machine but rather my hogging off too much. Best regards,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question Steve, I think you want a climb cut - have the beveler pull the strip thru butdon't stand in front of the exit end! John ----- Original Message -----From: SBDunn@aol.com Subject: Power Beveller Question Is there an advantage to which way the cane strips are fed to abeveller? DoI want the router to try and pull the cane out of my hands or do I wantit topush pack at me? Thanks in advance, Steve. Ihave the = JW Beveller and the climb cut works very nicely. I think the strip edges = bit better than the cutting I got on another brand, but it could have = well.As to what you say about the= exit...I was working in the garage and was bevelling a strip when I = sharp thump on the garage door. I assumed my daughter had slammed on the= When I looked down at my gloved hands, there was no strip. It was shot = arrow into the gargage door and lay on the floor under a good dent. SO, = always make sure the door is closed in case there had been someone in = way (Not that I run the beveller or any tool with anyone playing around = you never know), and I always wear the gloves of course. I do not find = be a defect of the machine but rather my hogging off too much. = regards,Bob LongSent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:14 SBDunn@aol.com; RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Power QuestionSteve, I think you want a climb cut - have the beveler pull the strip = don't stand in front of the exit end! ----- Original Message ----- SBDunn@aol.comSent: Tuesday, November 20, = AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Power Beveller =Question my hands or do I want it topush pack at me?Thanks in = Steve. from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Nov 20 07:56:10 2001 fAKDu9H15343 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:56:09 - Subject: Re: Standard or Truncated? fAKDuAH15344 The REC ferrules that I have used in the past werelonger then the Super Z dimensions that are on ChrisBogarts site. It seems that the slide of the male islonger by about .14" on the #14 ferrules. Super Z's dimensions are .70" and REC's Uni ferrules measure.84" on the male slide portion. The female's depth hasbeen increased accordingly. Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/20/01 at 7:36 AM Allen Thramer wrote: CSE TruncatedBellinger( original super Z length)CSE StandardI used one set of REC and disliked them and thankfully cannot rememberhow they fit into the picture The longer the ferrule the more tolerant they are of misuse, abuse and the just plain silly things that people do to themA.J. From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Subject: Re: Standard or Truncated?Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:09:35 -0500 Barry, 14/64 the male slide would be .832" long, add to it a minimum of 1/4" forserrations and wrap that would be 1.1" (mine is 1.25") for the male. Thefemale slide length is usually 4*bamboo diameter to accomodote the maleslide and a small air space. The bamboo side I usually keep it the same.So for that same ferrule the female would be .875" +.875" + .03"(separator)= 1.78".So with that basic rule (3.8 * D) ,all other dimensions kinda fall intoline. If I was to make a truncated, I would use something like 3 instead of3.8. That said, I would not do this. 1 3/4" is not very big for 14 ferrule and when together its about 2.25". I'm pretty sure REC's is longer if Iremember right. Never seen CSE or Bellinger's so I can not comment.So to answer your question, the business end is what gets shorter,becauseyou'll still need about a 1/4" for serrations and wraps, so the only placeto shorten the male would be the slide. So then the female slide could get shorter, so while you're at it shorten the bamboo side. What to low limitis, I don't know. Hope this helps....Tom ----- Original Message -----From: Kling, Barry W. Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 1:21 PMSubject: RE: Standard or Truncated? Haven't seen responses to this yet but it's a great question. I'll add toit -- in a truncated ferrule, is it just the bamboo-mounting section that's shorter, or is the male/female contact also shorter? (Hard to writequestions about ferrules suitable for a family-safe list....) Barry -----Original Message----- So once again the question comes up.Standard or Truncated? any real reason to use either or not to? Adam Vigil _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 07:56:52 2001 fAKDukH15435 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:56:46 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 05:56:41 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question FILETIME=[2E76C540:01C171CB] Bob,I also have a Medved beveler but an earlier one which was set up for clim=b cutting. When Ron Barch and I were doing a school, he brought his JW b=eveler which is set up to climb cut. We both had carbide bits and the st=rips from the JW were coming out a bit smoother. I reversed the feed on =my beveler and like it much better that way, but there always seems to be=a down side...i.e. the quick exit. Maybe we should call it "arrow feedi=ng". John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Power Beveller Question I have the Medved styled JW Beveller and the climb cut works very nicely.=I think the strip edges are a bit better than the cutting I got on anoth=er brand, but it could have been the cutters I bought. The carbide bit us=ed by JW seems to cut extremely well.As to what you say about the strip's exit...I was working in the garage a=nd was bevelling a strip when I heard a sharp thump on the garage door. I=assumed my daughter had slammed on the door. When I looked down at mygl=oved hands, there was no strip. It was shot like an arrow into the gargag=e door and lay on the floor under a good dent. SO, now I always make sure=the door is closed in case there had been someone in the drive way (Not =that I run the beveller or any tool with anyone playing around it but you=never know), and I always wear the gloves of course. I do not find this = Best regards,Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wus=tl.edu]On Behalf Of John Long Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question Steve, I think you want a climb cut - have the beveler pull the strip thru but d=on't stand in front of the exit end! I reversed the feed on my beveler and like it much better that way, but t= = Tuesda= JNL123141@msn.com; SBDunn@aol.com; RodmakersPost Subject: RE: Power Beveller Question Medved = styled JW Beveller and the climb cut works very nicely. I think the strip=edges are a bit better than the cutting I got on another brand, but it c=ould have been the cutters I bought. The carbide bit used by JW seems to =cut extremely well. As to what you say about the strip's exit...I was working in the gar=age and was bevelling a strip when I heard a sharp thump on the garage do=or. I assumed my daughter had slammed on the door. When I looked down at =my gloved hands, there was no strip. It was shot like an arrow into the g=argage door and lay on the floor under a good dent. SO, now I always make=sure the door is closed in case there had been someone in the drive way =(Not that I run the beveller or any tool with anyone playing around it bu=t you never know), and I always wear the gloves of course. I do not find = regards, Bob -----Original Message--= rodmak=ers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of John LongSent:Tuesda= RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Power Beveller Question= t= from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 20 08:22:11 2001 fAKEMBH16738 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:22:11 - (authenticated) Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:21:46 -0800 rodmakers Subject: Re: Snakes Tony Young wrote: Something we should tell people not of Australian origin is all nativeanimals are protected unless specifically not so and this includes snakesand I would think spiders etc too so IMHO a lot of this nonsense that iscurrently being spread is to prevent people attacking and killing snakes onsight which I would not like to see either. Tony, Like you, I don't believe in killing snakes on sight. But I've got a lot ofredneck in me. So I don't kill them, I just chop their tails off right behindtheir ears. [:-)] HarryRaised in the land of cottonmouth water moccasins. -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 08:33:13 2001 fAKEXCH17493 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:33:12 - Subject: Re: Snakes rodmakers I don't mind sharing the environment with all these things, I mean they can't all be small, furry and cuddly and they most certainly aren't there don't like them usually has consequences we have no idea of and certainly makes for an impoverished landscape in general. We belong in the environment too, though we take up way too much of it by far so we have a right to self preservation as well but that's all. Tony Like you, I don't believe in killing snakes on sight. But I've got a lot ofredneck in me. So I don't kill them, I just chop their tails off right behindtheir ears. [:-)] HarryRaised in the land of cottonmouth water moccasins. -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 20 08:40:18 2001 fAKEeHH17931 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:40:17 -0600 helo=default) id 166C4O-00040o-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:40:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Snakes Down Under Or to walk softly and carry a smoke pole. M-D I guess the moral here is to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach - walk =softly and carry a forked stick. John Or to walk softly and carry a = pole. M-D John = I guess the moral here is to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach - = softly and carry a forked stick. John from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Tue Nov 20 08:40:21 2001 fAKEeKH17939 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:40:20 - Subject: SNAKES Last year I had the great opportunity to fish in New Zealand. No =snakes,No crotchadials, the only thing that bit me was a few bees. One day I meet two fellows fishing and ,we struck up a conversation. the =guys were from Australia . One was a game warden and the other a =salesman .I have this keen interest in some of the wildlife that exists =down that way and the conversation turned to snakes . Both of those =fellows said they would not trout fish in Aussie land because of the =snakes . And they told me a few stories that convinced me that I would =not fish there either. Of course, any snake I see , from a garter to an =anaconda is probably a king cobra. They did tell me that they didn't think our bears were any better than =their snakes. I got a real chuckle out of that. At least if a bear bites =you it doesn't inject venom into your system.What do you snake =specialists think of that??????? Have a great day and look out for those snakes. A snake charmer,Jim/vermont Last year I had the great opportunity = New Zealand. No snakes,No crotchadials, the only thing that bit me was a = bees. One day I meet two fellows fishing and = up a conversation. the guys were from Australia . One was a game warden = other a salesman .I have this keen interest in some of the wildlife that = down that way and the conversation turned to snakes . Both of those = they would not trout fish in Aussie land because of the snakes . And = me a few stories that convinced me that I would not fish there either. = course, any snake I see , from a garter to an anaconda is probably a king = cobra. They did tell me that they didn't think = were any better than their snakes. I got a real chuckle out of that. At = a bear bites you it doesn't inject venom into your system.What do you = specialists think of that??????? Have a great day and look out for those= snakes. A snake charmer,Jim/vermont from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Nov 20 08:43:53 2001 fAKEhrH18382 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:43:53 - sender ) Subject: re: Standard or truncated Actually Brad, the slide on the patent is only .640", you didn't =subtractthe air space. Which leads me to another question. I always thought Super Z was 3.8 * =D,The patent numbers come out to 3 *D, is this patent for truncated ?? Tom. Actually Brad, the slide on the patent is only = ??Tom. from tball@sault.com Tue Nov 20 08:49:26 2001 fAKEnPH18946 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:49:25 - 0000 Subject: Weak Cane Yesterday while doing the bend test on strips, a weak spot was noticedabout one third of the way from the butt on the butt strip. Checkingthe rest of them, I found about 2/3 of them failed at that same point. Upon releasing the tension, they stayed slightly bent and had nospring. These strips had been flamed on the outside. I've flamed somerods, but never had any trouble before. I found enough to make a buttsection. Seems like the culm may have been bent too much at a young age andruined only one side that may have collapsed. Anyone else found similarculms and what was the outcome? Tom from Trout Lake from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 09:07:04 2001 fAKF73H19766 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:07:04 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:06:55 -0800 Subject: Snakes, bears FILETIME=[FE0F3720:01C171D4] Which is worse, a fatal bear attack or a fatal snake bite? Which isworse=, a fatal bear attack or a fatal snakebite? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 20 09:08:57 2001 fAKF8uH19972 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:08:57 - Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com, KlingB@health.missouri.edu,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes in your neighborhood,luckily some are docile (;-) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 20 09:15:33 2001 fAKFFWH20527 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:15:32 - Subject: Re: Snakes Peter,Yes there are plenty of other things in this world that can get us besides the snakes you have down there. I have had run ins with, Alaskan Brown Bears, Black Bears in Michigan, Mountain Lions in Colorado, Bobcats in Indiana, not to mention the Coyotes In Indiana as well, Moose in Ontario and rattle snakes in Michigan, Tennessee, Colorado and Wyoming. Luckily they were for the most part (except the Moose) not too close of calls. I believe that anywhere we go we should all be aware of the threat of nasty critters indigenous to the areas.Bret from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 09:16:22 2001 fAKFGKH20673 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:16:21 - "bamboo" Subject: Re: SNAKES The story you tell is pretty common unfortunately.I say unfortunately because provided you don't mess with the local fauna it'll normally leave you alone and there are some really nice places to fish here with nothing even approaching the population of people fishing, not as many fish either but that makes them bigger on average too.I've mentioned the Horn waders a few times now because these are quite thick, too thick for fangs to penetrate. I do wet wade but I've shown I'm stupid just by way of taking the time to argue with TA but I also live here and have been around these things for a while. I do admit to the Tigers putting the wind up me though, they're something else entirely. The real hassle with snakes is the normal fishing conditions you'll encounter here. It's like anywhere in that the terrain is different all over but you can count of doing a lot of fishing in pasture land during Summer. The pasture in Summer is normally about knee high and dried out, not green (that's why we tend to wear shorts here, the seed heads get into trousers and drive you mad) mice and rats live on the seeds and need water so snakes chase the rodents and water is where everybody meet including fishermen.One of Larry's mouse patters or maybe not so nice a mouse pattern in the middle of the night work great for the browns at these times.Because you're in and out of the streams and watching for trout it's hard to keep an eye on everything so when you see snakes it's a bit of a shock you can do without. As I mentioned you occasionally come into eye contact while climbing out of a steep creek too and you can absolutely do withoutthat.Also, it's BS snakes don't hunt at night. The hunt when food is out. Living in Western Australia as I do where there are few decent trout streams and LOTS of snakes with trout 4-5 hrs drive from home I tend to make trips to more worth while places as often as I can. Since the fishing is best in NZ and it's cheaper to get there from here than a domestic destination that's where I go but if you make it to Australia make sure you pack a rod and buy some waders here then give them to a needy local [:-)] . The fishing is worth while and too good to miss just for fear of something that just needs a little respect for every body to be happy. One thing to remember is never, never, never, never just step over a log on your path before looking on the other side to make sure a snake isn't sunbathing there. That's the most likely way of being bitten.Incidently, you are 100% correct, there are NO snakes of any kind in NZ. I mention this because our resident Kiwi is in transit and may not be online to answer this. As far as bears biting you, it looks to me like they don't need venom to bowl you over??? Tony At 09:44 AM 11/20/01 -0500, james christman wrote: Last year I had the great opportunity to fish in New Zealand. No snakes,No crotchadials, the only thing that bit me was a few bees. One day I meet two fellows fishing and ,we struck up a conversation. the guys were from Australia . One was a game warden and the other asalesman .I have this keen interest in some of the wildlife that exists down that way and the conversation turned to snakes . Both of those fellows said they would not trout fish in Aussie land because of the snakes . And they told me a few stories that convinced me that I would not fish there either. Of course, any snake I see , from a garter to an anaconda is probably a king cobra. They did tell me that they didn't think our bears were any better than their snakes. I got a real chuckle out of that. At least if a bear bites you it doesn't inject venom into your system.What do you snake specialists think of that??????? Have a great day and look out for those snakes. A snake charmer,Jim/vermont /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 09:17:07 2001 fAKFH6H20817 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:17:06 - tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com,KlingB@health.missouri.edu, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes Especially these ones apparently [:-)] Tony At 10:08 AM 11/20/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes in your neighborhood,luckilysome are docile (;-) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 09:20:00 2001 fAKFJxH21306 Subject: Re: Snakes, bears Personally I want to die in bed, I'm a coward I know but if I had to go in the field I'd sooner death by bear I think.Your point is right though, dead is dead. Tony At 10:06 AM 11/20/01 -0500, John Long wrote: Which is worse, a fatal bear attack or a fatal snake bite? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 09:21:58 2001 fAKFLvH21707 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:21:57 - Subject: Re: Snakes Those bloody moose things seem most dangerous all in all. They remind me of Hippos. They look ok but actually kill a lot of people in all sorts of imaginative ways. Tony At 10:15 AM 11/20/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Peter,Yes there are plenty of other things in this world that can get us besidesthe snakes you have down there. I have had run ins with, Alaskan BrownBears, Black Bears in Michigan, Mountain Lions in Colorado, Bobcats inIndiana, not to mention the Coyotes In Indiana as well, Moose in Ontario andrattle snakes in Michigan, Tennessee, Colorado and Wyoming. Luckily theywere for the most part (except the Moose) not too close of calls. I believethat anywhere we go we should all be aware of the threat of nasty crittersindigenous to the areas.Bret /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 20 09:22:03 2001 fAKFLwH21715 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:21:58 - Subject: Re: Snakes, bears rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Yeh I would like to die in bed too. At 80 years old shot on the downstroke from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 20 09:27:59 2001 fAKFRsH22580 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:27:54 - Subject: Re: Snakes It was probably the scariest thing I ever ran into. I was fishing in Ontario above Lake Nipigon and I came around a corner and ran smack dab into a huge Bull Moose and I can tell you he was more than pissed that I was there. I barely made it to my truck, which luckily was right there too.((:'-( from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 20 09:33:34 2001 fAKFXXH23167 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:33:33 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules If you have trouble finding pins in ferrules try this trick. Get a candle and put lampblack on the ferrule from the candle. After you do this wipe the lampblack off and you should see a little black ring where the ferrule pin is. Works for me.Bret from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Nov 20 09:43:30 2001 fAKFhOH23906 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:43:29 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Snake Story As a kid, I spent a summer in Georgia with my aunt and uncle. My uncle, asredneck as they get, likes to fish so off we go, stopped at the beer store,ammo store and tackle shop. Met up with a few of his fishing buddies and offto some swap like place to fish. I Was warned to keep my hands and feet outof the water, because of the snakes. Now I asked my uncle why the hand gun,he said " just in case..." being 8 years old I didn't question any further.Off we went in a metal row boat to fish, I had my back to the others in theboat and was just minding my own business, heard a gun shot, @#$% mypants,and was told to hang on as my uncle furiously rowed towards shore with theboat filling with water. A snake, I think it was a water moccison dropped out of a tree and into theboat. My uncle shot it and a hole in the boat. As soon as I hit land I wasin his truck not going back out in the boat. The crazy ass rednecks ducttaped the hole and went fishing again. I don't like snakes!! Pete from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Nov 20 09:48:52 2001 fAKFmpH24728 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:48:51 - 0000 (63.228.47.76) Subject: Micro II lathe Upgraded my lathe!Am selling complete Micro Lathe from Bogeman in Arizona. All accesories! =It's like the Taig. Anyone interested contact me off list.Dave Upgraded mylathe!Am selling complete Micro Lathe from = Arizona. All accesories! It's like the Taig. Anyone interested contact = list.Dave from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Nov 20 09:57:22 2001 fAKFvLH25377 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:57:21 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Chubb care Sean, A.J. Campbell in his excellent book says that Montague produced the labelled Chubb line until the Depression.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Sean McSharry wrote: Ian Kearney was over from NZ and we looked at a 10' eight strip Chubb Ifound recently. Looking in Marty Keane's work, Chubb was the innovatorof drawn reel seats and ferrules, and other improvements. Marty writesthat the Chubb business went into Montague shortly after the turn of thecentury. As this is an amazingly modern looking rod for its time, snake guides,ferrules with 8 separations, one for each strip, transparent wraps etc.,I wonder if anyone on the list knows if the name was carried on to lateryears by Montague or others? from OSEGAL@glcc.com Tue Nov 20 09:59:55 2001 fAKFxtH25702 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:59:55 - with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:59:35 -0500 , ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes I spent 12 years living "down under" and I was victim of a tiger snake =bite. It first bit my dog, on the snort (it died within a few seconds =after the bite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me on the front =of the leg. I barely made it to a hospital where, on arrival, I was only =able to tell them I had been bitten by a tiger snake, however without =mentioning that it had bitten my dog first. Without this vital information,=as the amount of venom it dispensed to my leg was a lot less than if I =had bitten me first, I was given tons of anti-venom serum, which affected =seriously my central nervous system, problem that lasted for over one =year. The worst part was, I wasn't even fishing!! Oscar There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes in your neighborhood, = I spent 12 years living "down under" and I was victim= seconds after the bite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me on the = of the leg. I barely made it to a hospital where, on arrival, I was only = tell them I had been bitten by a tiger snake, however without mentioning = had bitten my dog first. Without this vital information, as the amount of = given tons of anti-venom serum, which affected seriously my central = system, problem that lasted for over one year. The worst part was, I wasn't evenfishing!! Oscar neighborhood, luckily some are docile (;-)= from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 10:06:45 2001 fAKG6eH26456 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:06:45 - 20 Nov 2001 08:06:31 PST Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au, avyoung@iinet.net.au,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu i use-to want to go fishing in tasmania! timothy --- Oscar Segal wrote: I spent 12 years living "down under" and I wasvictim of a tiger snake bite. It first bit my dog,on the snort (it died within a few seconds after thebite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me onthe front of the leg. I barely made it to a hospitalwhere, on arrival, I was only able to tell them Ihad been bitten by a tiger snake, however withoutmentioning that it had bitten my dog first. Withoutthis vital information, as the amount of venom itdispensed to my leg was a lot less than if I hadbitten me first, I was given tons of anti- venomserum, which affected seriously my central nervoussystem, problem that lasted for over one year. The worst part was, I wasn't even fishing!! Oscar 11/20/01 12:08PM >>> There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes inyour neighborhood, luckily some are docile (;-) ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from dryfly@erols.com Tue Nov 20 10:10:46 2001 fAKGAkH26940 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:10:46 - ([208.58.203.137] helo=erols.com) id 166DQJ-0003CL-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:06:59 -0500 Subject: Need Drill Press Advice I'd like to buy a drill press to primarily use with rodmaking and makingreel seat inserts, etc. Any suggestions as to size, power (hp), speeds,swing, spindle travel, etc? I've never owned one before and haven'tused one since junior high shop class...back when Johnson waspresident. I'm interested in getting something I can put on my bench touse and store it away when not in use. I currently do some small stuffwith a Sherline lathe and a milling column but want something I can grabto use and not have to convert my lathe back and forth. I'm thinkingabout a Grizzly and hope to visit their PA warehouse over theThanksgiving weekend Any and all suggestions will be aprreciated. ThanksBob Williams from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 10:12:03 2001 fAKGC1H27152 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:12:01 - Subject: Re: Snake Story :-)))Pretty funny. I hope it wasn't but guess it was a .44?There is a film clip of people fishing for Makos. A shark jumped into the boat and everybody jumped out. Anybody else ever seen this? TY A snake, I think it was a water moccison dropped out of a tree and into theboat. My uncle shot it and a hole in the boat. As soon as I hit land I wasin his truck not going back out in the boat. The crazy ass rednecks ducttaped the hole and went fishing again. I don't like snakes!! Pete /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 10:18:25 2001 fAKGINH27998 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:18:23 - , ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes That's right. You need all the details possible. At least you lived.Did your dog die of suffocation?I have a friend who was bitten by a Yellow Bellied Black snake which are nothing like as bad, he has since developed renal problems as a result of the either/or/both the bite and subsequent anti venom. I think he was a bit too general in his description of the snake and treated him in a general way just to keep the ghost. TY At 10:38 AM 11/20/01 -0500, Oscar Segal wrote: I spent 12 years living "down under" and I was victim of a tiger snake bite. It first bit my dog, on the snort (it died within a few seconds after the bite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me on the front of the leg. I barely made it to a hospital where, on arrival, I was only able to tell them I had been bitten by a tiger snake, however without mentioning that it had bitten my dog first. Without this vital information, as the amount of venom it dispensed to my leg was a lot less than if I had bitten me first, I was given tons of anti- venom serum, which affected seriously my central nervous system, problem that lasted forover one year. The worst part was, I wasn't even fishing!! Oscar 11/20/01 12:08PM >>> There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes in your neighborhood,luckilysome are docile (;-) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 10:25:14 2001 fAKGPCH28581 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:25:12 - Grhghlndr@aol.com, KlingB@health.missouri.edu,Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes Don't be put off by it. It's a nice place to be. Just be careful that's all. Dogs really wind them up so after taking care of it I guess it was in no mood to back off. Not all that long ago it used to be recommended you try to kill the offending snake and take it to the doctor with you for identification. I leave to your imagination the shenanigans of a bitten person frantically looking literally for his life for the snake possibly being bitten again and making the venom get around the body faster.That's not recommended any more by the way. Oscar would have been feeling pretty crook I'd imagine. TY At 08:06 AM 11/20/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: i use-to want to go fishing in tasmania! timothy --- Oscar Segal wrote: I spent 12 years living "down under" and I wasvictim of a tiger snake bite. It first bit my dog,on the snort (it died within a few seconds after thebite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me onthe front of the leg. I barely made it to a hospitalwhere, on arrival, I was only able to tell them I /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label:Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 20 10:41:33 2001 fAKGfXH29548 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:41:33 - id 166Dxg-0005XN-00; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:41:28 -0500 Peter McKean ,rodmakers Subject: Re: Snakes I totally agree Tony. But I don't agree with those who want to re- introducesome of these denizens into areas where we have since long ago donewithout. It's just as stupid to introduce (or re-introduce), something into astable environment, (even if it used to live there) as it is to removesomething. And some of those things they are re-introducing are dangerous. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com avyoung@iinet.net.au wrote: I don't mind sharing the environment with all these things, I mean they can't all be small, furry and cuddly and they most certainly aren't there don't like them usually has consequences we have no idea of and certainly makes for an impoverished landscape in general. We belong in the environment too, though we take up way too much of it by far so we have a right to self preservation as well but that's all. Tony Like you, I don't believe in killing snakes on sight. But I've got a lot ofredneck in me. So I don't kill them, I just chop their tails off right behindtheir ears. [:-)] HarryRaised in the land of cottonmouth water moccasins. -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 10:56:29 2001 fAKGuRH00516 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:56:28 - Subject: Re: Snakes Peter McKean ,rodmakers Onis,right. Once an alpha species has been removed provided the other species have stabalised it's usually a bad move to re-introduce as far as I've seen or read about though it can be beneficial in some cases, at least here it is. A lot of animals have been killed off by cats in particular but people too and there is quite a lot of fencing and shooting and poisoning of cats then re introducing mammals which seems to be a good thing. It's a complicated thing to try to work out and I don't trust the "experts" much either especially if they don't tell who they're working for. There have been more than a few mining and forestry companies set up impact studies and the reading can be very fairy tale like. TY At 11:41 AM 11/20/01 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: I totally agree Tony. But I don't agree with those who want to re-introduce some of these denizens into areas where we have since long ago done without. It's just as stupid to introduce (or re-introduce), something into a stable environment, (even if it used to live there) as it is to remove something. And some of those things they are re-introducing are dangerous. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label:Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from harms1@pa.net Tue Nov 20 10:59:46 2001 fAKGxiH00812 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:59:44 - Subject: Re: Weak Cane Tom, This is not a common problem, but it happens often enough that one shouldnever begin to begin a rod without testing at least one strip taken fromyour culm. Sometimes a localized weakness can be caused by carelessstraightening before shipment, but just as often the problem is a natural"soft spot." I don't suppose anyone knows why this should occur in anotherwise strong culm, but sometimes it does. Unfortunately, you cannotrely only upon a visual examination to detect such weak spots. Flex a test strip by bending it carefully and firmly between each node. Ifthe strip is of uniform width, each bent section should show a smooth curvewith no segment of the curve bending more than another. When thepressureis released, the strip should snap smartly back to nearly straight again.If there is a weak spot, you can both feel and see it immediately. Cane is funny stuff, and sometimes quite unpredictable in its flexingcharacteristics. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Weak Cane Yesterday while doing the bend test on strips, a weak spot was noticedabout one third of the way from the butt on the butt strip. Checkingthe rest of them, I found about 2/3 of them failed at that same point.Upon releasing the tension, they stayed slightly bent and had nospring. These strips had been flamed on the outside. I've flamed somerods, but never had any trouble before. I found enough to make a buttsection.Seems like the culm may have been bent too much at a young age andruined only one side that may have collapsed. Anyone else found similarculms and what was the outcome?Tom from Trout Lake from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 20 11:47:06 2001 fAKHl5H03405 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:47:05 - 0000 Subject: Re: Low angle plane Jason, If you have a low angle planeby all means use it. I find it useful whenrough planing, but i usually don't use it for final planing. It isdifficult to get it to cut well enough for final planing. I have twoand use them all of the time.Ralph p.s. I give my friends a 2% discount for psychiatric counseling. Dr.Siggy from OSEGAL@glcc.com Tue Nov 20 12:00:13 2001 fAKI07H04115 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:00:08 - with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:59:51 -0500 , ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes I was as sick as dog mate!! I had been well instructed on do's and don't's, and one of them was to =visually identify the snake, not to kill it. As you put it, to try to kill =it would have been suicide!! My dog, Mayor, was a son of a gun, chaised everything that moved, and the =area where we were was infected with Tigers (King Island - Tasmania), =therefore the little b...... spent the day barking at them and chasing =them until.... good-bye!!! Nonetheless, don't be put off by snake stories. Aussie land is one of the =most beautiful places on earth, no doubt. Perhaps, the best 12 years of my=life were spent between Western Australia, Victoria, Tazie, and NSW. =Besides, I have a daughter born in Onslow - Western Australia, who smoke, =drinks, and curses like a sailor, just to remind me constantly of my days =spent in the Aussie outback. See ya!!! all. Dogs really wind them up so after taking care of it I guess it was = offending snake and take it to the doctor with you for identification. = looking literally for his life for the snake possibly being bitten = /*************************************************************************/= /*************************************************************************/= I was as sick as dog mate!! I had been well instructed on do's and don't's, and = them was to visually identify the snake, not to kill it. As you put it, to = to kill it would have been suicide!! My dog, Mayor, was a son of a gun, chaisedeverything = moved, and the area where we were was infected with Tigers (King Island = Tasmania), therefore the little b...... spent the day barking at them = chasing them until.... good-bye!!! Nonetheless, don't be put off by snake stories.Aussie = one of the most beautiful places on earth, no doubt. Perhaps, the best 12 = of my life were spent between Western Australia, Victoria, Tazie, and = Besides, I have a daughter born in Onslow - Western Australia, who = drinks, and curses like a sailor, just to remind me constantly of my days = in the Aussie outback. See ya!!! be careful that's all. Dogs really wind them up so after taking care = guess it was in no mood to back off. Not all that long ago it = to be recommended you try to kill the offending snake and take it to = shenanigans of a bitten person frantically looking literally for his = the body faster. That's not recommended any more by the way.Os= would have been feeling pretty crook I'd imagine. TY At= = /******************************************************************= AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avy= Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmascrackers = /******************************************************************= from OSEGAL@glcc.com Tue Nov 20 12:00:14 2001 fAKI0CH04116 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:00:13 - with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:59:51 -0500 , ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes I guess the dog died of a heart attack. As soons as it was bitten, it run = Oscar I have a friend who was bitten by a Yellow Bellied Black snake which = nothing like as bad, he has since developed renal problems as a result = the either/or/both the bite and subsequent anti venom. I think he was a = after the bite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me on the = of the leg. I barely made it to a hospital where, on arrival, I was = information, as the amount of venom it dispensed to my leg was a lot = than if I had bitten me first, I was given tons of anti-venom serum, = affected seriously my central nervous system, problem that lasted for = There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes in your neighborhood, = /*************************************************************************/= /*************************************************************************/= I guess the dog died of a heart attack. As soons as it= bitten, it run like hell for a few meters, then dropped dead. = Oscar least you lived. Did your dog die of suffocation? I have a friend = was bitten by a Yellow Bellied Black snake which are nothing like as = has since developed renal problems as a result of the either/or/both = bite and subsequent anti venom. I think he was a bit too general in = description of the snake and treated him in a general way just to keep = ghost. TY At 10:38 AM 11/20/01 -0500, Oscar Segal = = problem = = < Grhghlndr@aol.com = = /******************************************************************= AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avy= Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmascrackers = /******************************************************************= from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 12:05:47 2001 fAKI5kH04699 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:05:46 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:05:42 PST Subject: RE: Power Beveller Question Bob,Encountered the same problem with a 12' culm whileputting a drying split in it with a table saw. Theculm pretty much took out the door to the shop. Can'timage if the door was open at the time. Might havegone clear across the street and into traffic. Nowthat wouldn't be good. Regards,Chris --- Bob Maulucci wrote: As to what you say about the strip's exit...I wasworking in the garage andwas bevelling a strip when I heard a sharp thump onthe garage door. Iassumed my daughter had slammed on the door. When Ilooked down at my glovedhands, there was no strip. It was shot like an arrowinto the gargage doorand lay on the floor under a good dent. SO, now Ialways make sure the dooris closed in case there had been someone in thedrive way (Not that I run __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 20 12:14:01 2001 fAKIE0H05389 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:14:00 - helo=default) id 166FPD-000571-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:13:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Snake Story Peter, Sounds like a normal days fishing, using the Bubba technique. I'm surprisedyou think this a unique experience. ;o) M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Snake Story As a kid, I spent a summer in Georgia with my aunt and uncle. My uncle, asredneck as they get, likes to fish so off we go, stopped at the beer store, ammo store and tackle shop. Met up with a few of his fishing buddies and off to some swap like place to fish. I Was warned to keep my hands and feet out of the water, because of the snakes. Now I asked my uncle why the hand gun, he said " just in case..." being 8 years old I didn't question any further. Off we went in a metal row boat to fish, I had my back to the others in the boat and was just minding my own business, heard a gun shot, @#$% my pants, and was told to hang on as my uncle furiously rowed towards shore withtheboat filling with water. A snake, I think it was a water moccison dropped out of a tree and into the boat. My uncle shot it and a hole in the boat. As soon as I hit land I wasin his truck not going back out in the boat. The crazy ass rednecks ducttaped the hole and went fishing again. I don't like snakes!! Pete from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 12:27:58 2001 fAKIRuH06230 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:27:57 - , ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes That quick. Faster than I thought and I thought it was fast. Tony At 12:35 PM 11/20/01 -0500, Oscar Segal wrote: I guess the dog died of a heart attack. As soons as it was bitten, it run like hell for a few meters, then dropped dead. Oscar /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 12:33:55 2001 fAKIXnH06804 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:33:54 - , ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes Onslow is one tough town and not a place to be a home coming queen that's Tony Nonetheless, don't be put off by snake stories. Aussie land is one of the most beautiful places on earth, no doubt. Perhaps, the best 12 years of my life were spent between Western Australia, Victoria, Tazie, and NSW. Besides, I have a daughter born in Onslow - Western Australia, who smoke, drinks, and curses like a sailor, just to remind me constantly of my days spent in the Aussie outback. See ya!!! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Nov 20 13:20:35 2001 fAKJKYH09320 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:20:34 - 0000 "Peter McKean" ,"rodmakers" Subject: Re: Snakes I feel sorry for the poor SOB who does an archive search looking for info onsnake guides!!!!! tom ----- Original Message ----- ; rodmakers Subject: Re: Snakes Onis,right. Once an alpha species has been removed provided the other specieshave stabalised it's usually a bad move to re-introduce as far as I've seen or read about though it can be beneficial in some cases, at least here itis. A lot of animals have been killed off by cats in particular but peopletoo and there is quite a lot of fencing and shooting and poisoning of catsthen re introducing mammals which seems to be a good thing. It's acomplicated thing to try to work out and I don't trust the "experts" mucheither especially if they don't tell who they're working for. There havebeen more than a few mining and forestry companies set up impact studiesand the reading can be very fairy tale like. TY At 11:41 AM 11/20/01 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: I totally agree Tony. But I don't agree with those who want tore-introduce some of these denizens into areas where we have since longago done without. It's just as stupid to introduce (or re-introduce),something into a stable environment, (even if it used to live there) as it is to remove something. And some of those things they are re- introducingare dangerous. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label:Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from alspicer99@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 14:00:42 2001 fAKK0fH12272 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:00:41 - 20 Nov 2001 12:00:40 PST Subject: 10 top tapers last chance Rodmakers, We are rapidly approaching the deadline (11-21-01) foreveryone to get their picks in for the top 5 tapers.To everyone that has sent in their votes, thanks. Tohelp those that have not yet voted and can't make uptheir mind, I have narrowed the list down to tapersalready voted for thus far. This cuts the list almostin half from the original nominees. Remember pick yourtop five from this list or the original (in order 1 to5) and email me off the list. I will report theresults after Thanksgiving. Right now it's a 3-wayrace for the top taper. Happy Thanksgiving, Al SpicerGreensboro, NC ****** Tapers voted for as of 11-20-01 ******* A&F "Favorite" by Edwards 7'6"Cattanach 7' #4 (Sir D)Dickerson 6611Dickerson 7613Dickerson 7614Dickerson 8013Dickerson 8014Dickerson 8614F.E. Thomas Special replica 6'8" 2/2 3wt (Joe Perrigo)Garrison 202EGranger 7'Granger 7 1/2' Granger 8.5Granger 8' Granger 8 1/2'Heddon FolsumLeonard 38hLeonard 50DFNunley's 704 Orvis 5/9 UltralightPayne 98, Payne 101PHY Driggs River SpecialPHY Martha MariePHY MidgePHY Para 14PHY "Perfectionist"Thramer 7ft DX __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Nov 20 14:13:17 2001 fAKKDBH15237 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:13:11 -0600 Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:13:01 -0800 Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:13:01 GMT Subject: Re: Snakes FILETIME=[C1335310:01C171FF] Tom: snake issue. To all, did I ever tell you about the snow snakes in Da UP, they'reeasy to find in the summer, but boy are they hard to find in da winter, shouldI go , , "rodmakers" looking for info on provided the other species as far as I've cases, at least here it particular but people and poisoning of cats good thing. It's a the "experts" much for. There have set up impact studies wrote: who want to where we have since long (or re-introduce), used to live there) as things they are re-introducing Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from harms1@pa.net Tue Nov 20 14:24:32 2001 fAKKOVH17875 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:24:31 - ,, ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes All, Perhaps, as rod makers, we have heard as much as we need to about thesnakes. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- ; ;; Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes I guess the dog died of a heart attack. As soons as it was bitten, it runlike hell for a few meters, then dropped dead. Oscar Tony Young 11/20/01 01:23PM >>> That's right. You need all the details possible. At least you lived.Did your dog die of suffocation?I have a friend who was bitten by a Yellow Bellied Black snake which arenothing like as bad, he has since developed renal problems as a result ofthe either/or/both the bite and subsequent anti venom. I think he was a bittoo general in his description of the snake and treated him in a generalway just to keep the ghost. TY At 10:38 AM 11/20/01 -0500, Oscar Segal wrote: I spent 12 years living "down under" and I was victim of a tiger snakebite. It first bit my dog, on the snort (it died within a few secondsafter the bite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me on the frontof the leg. I barely made it to a hospital where, on arrival, I was onlyable to tell them I had been bitten by a tiger snake, however withoutmentioning that it had bitten my dog first. Without this vitalinformation, as the amount of venom it dispensed to my leg was a lot lessthan if I had bitten me first, I was given tons of anti- venom serum, whichaffected seriously my central nervous system, problem that lasted foroverone year. The worst part was, I wasn't even fishing!! Oscar 11/20/01 12:08PM >>> There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes in your neighborhood, luckily some are docile (;-) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Nov 20 14:24:51 2001 fAKKOpH17986 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:24:51 - helo=oemcomputer) id 166HRp-0005de-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:24:50 -0500 Subject: Fw: Snakes Tom:That's the best laugh I've had in a week.Ed ----- Original Message ----- ; "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Snakes I feel sorry for the poor SOB who does an archive search looking for info on snake guides!!!!! tom ----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Cc: Harry Boyd ; Peter McKean; rodmakers Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:00 PMSubject: Re: Snakes Onis,right. Once an alpha species has been removed provided the otherspecieshave stabalised it's usually a bad move to re-introduce as far as I've seen or read about though it can be beneficial in some cases, at least here it is. A lot of animals have been killed off by cats in particular but people too and there is quite a lot of fencing and shooting and poisoning of cats then re introducing mammals which seems to be a good thing. It's acomplicated thing to try to work out and I don't trust the "experts" much either especially if they don't tell who they're working for. There havebeen more than a few mining and forestry companies set up impactstudiesand the reading can be very fairy tale like. TY At 11:41 AM 11/20/01 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: I totally agree Tony. But I don't agree with those who want tore-introduce some of these denizens into areas where we have sincelongago done without. It's just as stupid to introduce (or re-introduce),something into a stable environment, (even if it used to live there) as it is to remove something. And some of those things they are re-introducing are dangerous. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label:Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 14:37:56 2001 fAKKbgH19358 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:37:56 - ([209.178.134.247] helo=g2t8c9) id 166HeH-0000Kk-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:37:41 -0800 Subject: Ferrules and Snakes Okay guys 34 post on snakes and only a couple about my question onferrules.The info so far on the couple of response on the use of truncated vs.standard ferrules is good but I know there are more opinions on the matterout there. So once again, where and why should one use truncated or standard? andwhy? Is using a truncated ferrule on all rods structurally sound? Adam Vigil from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Nov 20 14:49:47 2001 fAKKnlH20312 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:49:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Regarding job layoffs and downsizing in the USA . . . In a message dated 11/19/01 10:25:23 AM Central Standard Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: That's outdated. Now it is China! maybe Viet nam! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 20 14:58:16 2001 fAKKwGH21145 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:58:16 - (authenticated) Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:57:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Ferrules and Snakes Adam Vigil wrote: So once again, where and why should one use truncated or standard? andwhy?Is using a truncated ferrule on all rods structurally sound? Adam, I agree, enough posts on snakes, and sorry I added to the traffic. I usetruncated ferrules on 3 piece rods, standard lengths on 2 piece rods. Why?Well, that's the way I've always done it. I know that's not much of a reason,but it's the best I can do. Seems like I remember Wayne Cattanach explainingwhy he was changing some of the ferrules he used on 3 piece rods severalyearsago, but I don't remember the explanation... Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Nov 20 15:03:13 2001 fAKL2wH21623 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:02:59 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:02:49 +1100 Subject: Re: Chubb care FILETIME=[B682CC00:01C17206] Reed. Thanks. I am still seeking any information about the eight sidedoption, if possible to identify the year. Must get a hold of theCampbell book. Sean Reed Curry wrote: Sean,A.J. Campbell in his excellent book says that Montague produced thelabelled Chubb line until the Depression.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Sean McSharry wrote: Ian Kearney was over from NZ and we looked at a 10' eight strip Chubb Ifound recently. Looking in Marty Keane's work, Chubb was the innovatorof drawn reel seats and ferrules, and other improvements. Marty writesthat the Chubb business went into Montague shortly after the turn ofthe century. As this is an amazingly modern looking rod for its time, snake guides,ferrules with 8 separations, one for each strip, transparent wraps etc.,I wonder if anyone on the list knows if the name was carried on to lateryears by Montague or others? from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 15:08:45 2001 fAKL8iH22144 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:08:44 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:08:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Binding question FILETIME=[7A850500:01C17207] I haven't looked it up, but I'm almost sure that ALL my books, cattanach, maurer and howell, as well as st. garrison, all say to start binding at the tip end. One of them even emphasized tip end only. None of them saidwhy. I'm interested because I'm binding up a payne 101 this evening. At 08:46 AM 11/19/2001 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Thanks for all the responses, friends. Guess I shouldhave known that the hard, non-intuitive way would beespoused by that particular author. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Nov 20 15:11:58 2001 fAKLBqH22515 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:11:52 - Subject: Re: Standard or Truncated? fAKLBvH22537 HI Tom,I worked mine off the print in this manner; first I took L1 (length of entire male ferrule) 1.210"then added L2(length of slide engagement) .700"then I did the old fudge factor for gas compression(.03 for 11/64th and smaller, .04 for 12/64 to 15/64and .05 on anything larger) These are numbers I justcame up with after looking at the print for awhile.(really the lengths were determined by the chamfer onthe reamer that I was using at the time)So my female ferrules end up at 1.95" longand males are 1.210" with a .700" slide length ferrule ends up at 1.83" (1.49+.34).I made a few of the short (L3+L4) and took them in to San Antonio to George's last year and had himlook at them for his opinion. After discussing the printthat was at hand and a few other considerations we came up with the L1+L2+compression space=Over all lengthof female As far as I know all the ferrules that I have made to the longer size are all functioning well with no failures(including the few aluminium sets I have made in the past). this may not be the best way,it is just the way I did it. Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/20/01 at 9:40 AM Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Actually Brad, the slide on the patent is only .640", you didn't subtractthe air space. Which leads me to another question. I always thought Super Z was 3.8 * D,The patent numbers come out to 3 *D, is this patent for truncated ?? Tom. ----- Original Message -----From: Brad Love Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:55 AMSubject: Re: Standard or Truncated? The REC ferrules that I have used in the past werelonger then the Super Z dimensions that are on ChrisBogarts site. It seems that the slide of the male islonger by about .14" on the #14 ferrules. Super Z'sdimensions are .70" and REC's Uni ferrules measure.84" on the male slide portion. The female's depth hasbeen increased accordingly. Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/20/01 at 7:36 AM Allen Thramer wrote: CSE TruncatedBellinger( original super Z length)CSE StandardI used one set of REC and disliked them and thankfully cannot remember how they fit into the picture The longer the ferrule the more tolerant they are of misuse, abuse and the just plain silly things that people do to themA.J. From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Subject: Re: Standard or Truncated?Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:09:35 -0500 Barry, 14/64 the male slide would be .832" long, add to it a minimum of 1/4" for serrations and wrap that would be 1.1" (mine is 1.25") for the male. The female slide length is usually 4*bamboo diameter to accomodote themaleslide and a small air space. The bamboo side I usually keep it the same. So for that same ferrule the female would be .875" +.875" +.03"(separator)= 1.78".So with that basic rule (3.8 * D) ,all other dimensions kinda fall intoline. If I was to make a truncated, I would use something like 3 instead of3.8. That said, I would not do this. 1 3/4" is not very big for 14 ferrule and when together its about 2.25". I'm pretty sure REC's is longer if I remember right. Never seen CSE or Bellinger's so I can not comment.So to answer your question, the business end is what gets shorter, because you'll still need about a 1/4" for serrations and wraps, so the only place to shorten the male would be the slide. So then the female slide could get shorter, so while you're at it shorten the bamboo side. What to low limit is, I don't know. Hope this helps....Tom ----- Original Message -----From: Kling, Barry W. Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 1:21 PMSubject: RE: Standard or Truncated? Haven't seen responses to this yet but it's a great question. I'll add toit -- in a truncated ferrule, is it just the bamboo-mounting section that's shorter, or is the male/female contact also shorter? (Hard to writequestions about ferrules suitable for a family-safe list....) Barry -----Original Message----- So once again the question comes up.Standard or Truncated? any real reason to use either or not to? Adam Vigil _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from dryfly@erols.com Tue Nov 20 15:14:35 2001 fAKLEYH22797 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:14:34 - ([208.58.202.60] helo=erols.com) id 166IDx-0007ex-00; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:14:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules and Snakes Adam I use truncated on all 3 piece rods and 2 piece rods up to 7 feet,standard length ferrules on all 2 piece rods greater than 7 feet. Ithink this follows a Wayne Cattanach post from a few years ago. Bob from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Nov 20 15:18:27 2001 fAKLIQH23182 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:18:26 - 2001 -0500 2001 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:10:34 -0500 id ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:06:42 -0500 Subject: Snikes Alternatively we could all go visit the official web site of the CrocodileHunter. But call em snikes, notsnakes....http://www.crocodilehunter.com/index1.htm -----Original Message----- Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au; avyoung@iinet.net.au;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; tjtrodmaker@yahoo.comSubject: Re: Tiger Snakes All, Perhaps, as rod makers, we have heard as much as we need to about thesnakes. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- ; ;; Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes I guess the dog died of a heart attack. As soons as it was bitten, it runlike hell for a few meters, then dropped dead. Oscar Tony Young 11/20/01 01:23PM >>> That's right. You need all the details possible. At least you lived.Did your dog die of suffocation?I have a friend who was bitten by a Yellow Bellied Black snake which arenothing like as bad, he has since developed renal problems as a result ofthe either/or/both the bite and subsequent anti venom. I think he was a bittoo general in his description of the snake and treated him in a generalway just to keep the ghost. TY At 10:38 AM 11/20/01 -0500, Oscar Segal wrote: I spent 12 years living "down under" and I was victim of a tiger snakebite. It first bit my dog, on the snort (it died within a few secondsafter the bite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me on the frontof the leg. I barely made it to a hospital where, on arrival, I was onlyable to tell them I had been bitten by a tiger snake, however withoutmentioning that it had bitten my dog first. Without this vitalinformation, as the amount of venom it dispensed to my leg was a lot lessthan if I had bitten me first, I was given tons of anti- venom serum, whichaffected seriously my central nervous system, problem that lasted foroverone year. The worst part was, I wasn't even fishing!! Oscar 11/20/01 12:08PM >>> There are 9 out the top 10 most venomous snakes in your neighborhood, luckily some are docile (;-) /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Nov 20 15:19:14 2001 fAKLJDH23338 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:19:13 - Subject: Re: Binding question fAKLJEH23339 Good Day everyone, on page 78 of Howell's book he states"Place the section in the binder, ferrule end first. (The tips will go ferrule end first as well.)" I do thickest cross section first, meaning thatbutt sections start on the end of the rod and tipsstart at the ferrule end. Don't ask why I do it this way(must have had some short term memory lossin the early days of rod building :*) later,Brad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/20/01 at 4:10 PM Bill Hoy wrote: I haven't looked it up, but I'm almost sure that ALL my books, cattanach, maurer and howell, as well as st. garrison, all say to start binding at the tip end. One of them even emphasized tip end only. None of them said from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Nov 20 15:22:21 2001 fAKLMKH23781 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:22:20 - 2001 -0500 2001 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:14:32 -0500 id ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:10:41 -0500 Subject: RE: Ferrules and Snakes I seem to remember someone once saying that truncated are good for morelight delicate rods but full size for stronger heavier weight ones. Perhapssomething to do with either strength of fit to bamboo, weight of theferrule, or stiffness affecting action. Hopefully I am not repeating whatmay have been recently stated. Adam Vigil wrote: So once again, where and why should one use truncated or standard? and why? Is using a truncated ferrule on all rods structurally sound? from dryfly@erols.com Tue Nov 20 15:24:28 2001 fAKLORH24072 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:24:27 - ([208.58.202.60] helo=erols.com) id 166INT-0001vf-00; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:24:23 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Binding question --------------1BE22DAE816A7D0B05E9F057 Maurer taught me to build and for tip sections he definitely instructedme not to start binding at the tip end. Bob Williams --------------1BE22DAE816A7D0B05E9F057 Maurer taught me to build and for tip sections he definitely instructedme not to start binding at the tip end. Bob Williams --------------1BE22DAE816A7D0B05E9F057-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 20 15:26:09 2001 fAKLQ9H24349 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:26:09 - Subject: Seattle Anyone in Seattle? from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 15:38:13 2001 fAKLc8H26584 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:38:08 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:38:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Binding question FILETIME=[A1E439A0:01C1720B] Ooops. Guess my memory is failing. Or I misread Howell. Or maybe mymemory is failing. I forget. bh At 03:18 PM 11/20/2001 -0600, Brad Love wrote: Good Day everyone, on page 78 of Howell's book he states"Place the section in the binder, ferrule end first. (Thetips will go ferrule end first as well.)" I do thickest cross section first, meaning thatbutt sections start on the end of the rod and tipsstart at the ferrule end. Don't ask why I do it thisway(must have had some short term memory lossin the early days of rod building :*) later,Brad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/20/01 at 4:10 PM Bill Hoy wrote: I haven't looked it up, but I'm almost sure that ALL my books, cattanach,maurer and howell, as well as st. garrison, all say to start binding atthe tip end. One of them even emphasized tip end only. None of them said from iank@ts.co.nz Tue Nov 20 15:55:01 2001 fAKLsxH00668 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:54:59 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:58:14 +1300 Subject: Re: animals etc - not rodmaking In response to Tom's very valid comment about the archives I have =changed the thread name. However I could not miss the chance to =advertise the "real" southern rodmakers gathering to be held in New =Zealand next year ( wow - did I use that naughty word " advertise" ) There is also the rational approach - Fish in New Zealand where there =are no snakes, no bears, no poisonous spiders ( except the imported =Australian redback in some coastal areas), no biting or charging animals =, lots of mountain streams without hydro dams on them, and lots of big =trout (which unfortunately have not survived to grow big because they = Of course everyone in Australia has their "snakes and spiders" stories. =My best , from when I was living there, was hearing a cry of "help" over =the back fence one day. The lady next door had been bitten by a large =black spider while working in her garden. The conventional advise to =catch the spider and take it to the hospital with you so they know what =treatment to give seemed rather silly at the time of panic particularly =given that we lived in an area where there were funnelweb spiders ( =large and black) for which there was not anti-venom at that time. I =certainly was not going to search around the garden to catch it. = We took her up to the hospital where they said that as we did not know =what spider it was all they could do was keep her under observation to =see what the reaction was and then treat the symptoms. This meant =sitting on a hard wooden hospital bench for about 3 hours and having a =nurse come up every five minutes and ask if you could still breath all =right! . You can guess what affect imagination had on the heart rate = Fortunately after 3 hours the lady had not died of a heart attack, her =breathing was still sort of normal , so they said we might as well take =her home again. The medicine we took when we got home was large volumes =of the brown amber fluid type! Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:48 AMSubject: Snakes Down Under I guess the moral here is to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach - walk =softly and carry a forked stick. John In response to Tom's very valid comment about = I have changed the thread name. However I could not miss the chance to = the "real" southern rodmakers gathering to be held in New Zealand next = = New Zealand where there are no snakes, no bears, no poisonous spiders ( = the imported Australian redback in some coastal areas), no biting or = animals , lots of mountain streams without hydro dams on them, and lots = trout (which unfortunately have not survived to grow big because they = Of course everyone in Australia has their = spiders" stories. My best , from when I was living there, was hearing a = "help" over the back fence one day. The lady next door had been bitten = large black spider while working in her garden. The conventional advise = the spider and take it to the hospital with you so they know what = give seemed rather silly at the time of panic particularly given that we = in an area where there were funnelweb spiders ( large and black) for = was not anti-venom at that time. I certainly was not going to search = We took her up to the hospital where they said = did not know what spider it was all they could do was keep her under = to see what the reaction was and then treat the symptoms. This meant = a hard wooden hospital bench for about 3 hours and having a nurse come = five minutes and ask if you could still breath all right! . You = Fortunately after 3 hours the lady had not died = attack, her breathing was still sort of normal , so they said we might = take her home again. The medicine we took when we got home was large = the brown amber fluid type! Ian ----- Original Message ----- John = Sent: Wednesday, November 21, = AMSubject: Snakes Down =Under I guess the moral here is to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach - = softly and carry a forked stick. John from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 16:17:13 2001 fAKMHCH05762 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:17:12 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:17:07 PST Subject: Re: Snakes, bears Depends on how big the bear is and how big theflyfisher is. If the bear is big and the theflyfisher small then a one meal ordeal isn't toopainful or time consuming. It's when he buries what's left of you for a futuresnack that could be a real bummer, depending on whichportions he dined on the first go round. [:)] Chris --- John Long wrote: Which is worse, a fatal bear attack or a fatal snake bite? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from Dennishigham@cs.com Tue Nov 20 16:38:16 2001 fAKMcFH10300 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:38:15 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Steve,I've been using AccraGlas for about 4 years ever since Larry Blan turned me on to it. Ferrules can be removed with heat just like most other epoxys. Dennis from jteft@frontiernet.net Tue Nov 20 17:03:35 2001 fAKN3YH15682 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:03:34 - Subject: Nodeless Gluing Fellow Nodeless builders, joining the scarfs I have this question. How long do you maintain the =scarf under clamp after gluing ? Jim T Fellow Nodeless builders, = II for joining the scarfs I have this question. How long do you maintain = scarf under clamp after gluing ? Jim T from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Nov 20 17:05:17 2001 fAKN5BH16080 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:05:12 - for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:05:02+0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Ferrules and Snakes Sure hope I never need a search for snake-guides in the archive:-) danny from iank@ts.co.nz Tue Nov 20 17:27:27 2001 fAKNRPH20381 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:27:26 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:30:31 +1300 Subject: Re: Binding question I know I used to bind the tips first , not sure why but it was probably from one of the books. However for the last couple of years I have startedat the thicker end as it seems to be easier to control and I get less twist.This may vary depending on the type of binder which you use. Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Binding question Good Day everyone, on page 78 of Howell's book he states"Place the section in the binder, ferrule end first. (Thetips will go ferrule end first as well.)" from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Nov 20 17:31:24 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAKNVOH21444 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:31:24 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:31:19 -0600 Subject: RE: SNAKES Personally I'm happy to spread the word about the incredible dangers faced Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: SNAKES The story you tell is pretty common unfortunately.I say unfortunately because provided you don't mess with the local fauna it'll normally leave you alone and there are some really nice places to fish here with nothing even approaching the population of people fishing, not as many fish either but that makes them bigger on average too.I've mentioned the Horn waders a few times now because these are quite thick, too thick for fangs to penetrate. I do wet wade but I've shown I'm stupid just by way of taking the time to argue with TA but I also live here and have been around these things for a while. I do admit to the Tigers putting the wind up me though, they're something else entirely. The real hassle with snakes is the normal fishing conditions you'll encounter here. It's like anywhere in that the terrain is different all over but you can count of doing a lot of fishing in pasture land during Summer. The pasture in Summer is normally about knee high and dried out, not green (that's why we tend to wear shorts here, the seed heads get into trousers and drive you mad) mice and rats live on the seeds and need water so snakes chase the rodents and water is where everybody meet including fishermen.One of Larry's mouse patters or maybe not so nice a mouse pattern in the middle of the night work great for the browns at these times.Because you're in and out of the streams and watching for trout it's hard to keep an eye on everything so when you see snakes it's a bit of a shock you can do without. As I mentioned you occasionally come into eye contact while climbing out of a steep creek too and you can absolutely do withoutthat.Also, it's BS snakes don't hunt at night. The hunt when food is out. Living in Western Australia as I do where there are few decent trout streams and LOTS of snakes with trout 4-5 hrs drive from home I tend to make trips to more worth while places as often as I can. Since the fishing is best in NZ and it's cheaper to get there from here than a domestic destination that's where I go but if you make it to Australia make sure you pack a rod and buy some waders here then give them to a needy local [:-)] . The fishing is worth while and too good to miss just for fear of something that just needs a little respect for every body to be happy. One thing to remember is never, never, never, never just step over a log on your path before looking on the other side to make sure a snake isn't sunbathing there. That's the most likely way of being bitten.Incidently, you are 100% correct, there are NO snakes of any kind in NZ. I mention this because our resident Kiwi is in transit and may not be online to answer this. As far as bears biting you, it looks to me like they don't need venom to bowl you over??? Tony At 09:44 AM 11/20/01 -0500, james christman wrote: Last year I had the great opportunity to fish in New Zealand. No snakes,No crotchadials, the only thing that bit me was a few bees. One day I meet two fellows fishing and ,we struck up a conversation. the guys were from Australia . One was a game warden and the other asalesman .I have this keen interest in some of the wildlife that exists down that way and the conversation turned to snakes . Both of those fellows said they would not trout fish in Aussie land because of the snakes . And they told me a few stories that convinced me that I would not fish there either. Of course, any snake I see , from a garter to an anaconda is probably a king cobra. They did tell me that they didn't think our bears were any better than their snakes. I got a real chuckle out of that. At least if a bear bites you it doesn't inject venom into your system.What do you snake specialists think of that??????? Have a great day and look out for those snakes. A snake charmer,Jim/vermont /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 20 17:40:12 2001 fAKNe6H22539 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:40:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Regarding job layoffs and downsizing in the USA . . . Let he who is prepared to work for the lowest wages make the most alarm clocks. Then hope like hell your buying power stays high because the local industry will have disappeared in a cloud of free market ideas. TY At 03:48 PM 11/20/01 -0500, Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/19/01 10:25:23 AM Central Standard Time,jojo@ipa.netwrites:JAPAN) SNIPand wondered why he can't find a good paying job ( in AMERICA) !!! >>That's outdated. Now it is China! maybe Viet nam! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 20 19:05:05 2001 fAL155H24693 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:05:05 - Subject: Planes Just another plane question. Does anyone on the list use a Veritas blockplane and if so how do you set the blade in the Veritas honing guide so it'ssquare to the sharpening stone? The taper toward the rear of the blademakesit very difficult for me to set it up correctly. Due to this odd shapedblade I can't use the standard honing guide that will accommodate therectangular shaped blades used in Stanley and Record planes . TIAJack from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 19:09:48 2001 fAL19lH25045 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:09:48 - ([209.178.134.48] helo=g2t8c9) id 166LtU-0006zY-00; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:09:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Nodeless Gluing Jim, I glue them up and let them sit overnight at least 12 hrs. plane the =edges 90* and flatten the pith. Run them through the beveler to rough =60*. Get the form set and 15 minutes later a finished strip. Who said = Let me see... Split culm in 1/2Cut out nodes on cross cut power saw -5 minutesSplit cane and cut splices for a butt and 2 tips- 40minGlue up splices 3 min/strip- 54minRough out strips(beveler) 5 min/strip x 18strips - 90min So it took me 3.15 hrs to go from a culm to finishing form in working =time never mind all the time in between taking care of kids stuff. I =never sat down in figured it out not to bad. I wish sanding had a short =cut. Adam Jim T wrote: Fellow Nodeless builders, joining the scarfs I have this question. How long do you maintain the =scarf under clamp after gluing ? Jim T =FF=FE=00==0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00J=00i=00m=00,=00=00=00=0D=00=0A= =00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00I=00 =00g=00l=00u=00e=00=00t=00h=00e=00m=00 ==00u=00p=00 =00a=00n=00d=00 =00l=00e=00t=00=00t=00h=00e=00m=00 ==00s=00i=00t=00 =00o=00v=00e=00r=00n=00i=00g=00h=00t=00=00a=00t=00 ==00l=00e=00a=00s=00t=00 =001=002=00 =00h=00r=00s=00.=00 ==00p=00l=00a=00n=00e=00 =00t=00h=00e=00=00e=00d=00g=00e=00s=00 =00=0D=00=0A==009=000=00*=00 =00a=00n=00d=00=00f=00l=00a=00t=00t=00e=00n=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00 =00p=00i=00t=00h=00.=00 =00R=00u=00n=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00m=00 =00t=00h=00r=00o=00u=00g=00h=00=00t=00h=00e=00 ==00b=00e=00v=00e=00l=00e=00r=00 =00t=00o=00=00r=00o=00u=00g=00h=00 ==006=000=00*=00.=00 =00G=00e=00t=00 =00t=00h=00e=00=00=0D=00=0A==00f=00o=00r=00m=00 =00s=00e=00t=00 =00a=00n=00d=00=001=005=00 ==00m=00i=00n=00u=00t=00e=00s=00 =00l=00a=00t=00e=00r=00=00a=00 ==00f=00i=00n=00i=00s=00h=00e=00d=00 =00s=00t=00r=00i=00p=00.=00==00W=00h=00o=00 =00s=00a=00i=00d=00=00n=00o=00d=00e=00l=00e=00s=00s=00 ==00b=00u=00i=00l=00d=00i=00n=00g=00 =00t=00a=00k=00e=00s=00=00=0D=00=0A==00l=00o=00n=00g=00e=00r=00.=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00L=00e=00t=00 =00m=00e=00 ==00s=00e=00e=00.=00.=00.=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00S=00p=00l=00i=00t=00=00c=00u=00l=00m=00 ==00i=00n=00=001=00/=002=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00C=00u=00t=00 =00o=00u=00t=00 ==00n=00o=00d=00e=00s=00 =00o=00n=00 =00c=00r=00o=00s=00s=00 ==00c=00u=00t=00 =00p=00o=00w=00e=00r=00 =00s=00a=00w=00 =00-=005=00 ==00m=00i=00n=00u=00t=00e=00s=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00S=00p=00l=00i=00t=00=00c=00a=00n=00e=00 ==00a=00n=00d=00 =00c=00u=00t=00=00s=00p=00l=00i=00c=00e=00s=00 ==00f=00o=00r=00 =00a=00 =00b=00u=00t=00t=00 =00a=00n=00d=00=002=00 ==00t=00i=00p=00s=00-=00 ==004=000=00m=00i=00n=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00G=00l=00u=00e=00 =00u=00p=00 ==00s=00p=00l=00i=00c=00e=00s=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=003=00 ==00m=00i=00n=00/=00s=00t=00r=00i=00p=00-=00 ==005=004=00m=00i=00n=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00R=00o=00u=00g=00h=00 =00o=00u=00t=00 ==00s=00t=00r=00i=00p=00s=00(=00b=00e=00v=00e=00l=00e=00r=00)=00 =005=00 ==00m=00i=00n=00/=00s=00t=00r=00i=00p=00 =00x=00 ==001=008=00s=00t=00r=00i=00p=00s=00 =00-=00 ==009=000=00m=00i=00n=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00S=00o=00 =00i=00t=00=00t=00o=00o=00k=00 ==00m=00e=00 =003=00.=001=005=00 =00h=00r=00s=00 =00t=00o=00=00g=00o=00 ==00f=00r=00o=00m=00 =00a=00 =00c=00u=00l=00m=00 =00t=00o=00 ==00f=00i=00n=00i=00s=00h=00i=00n=00g=00 =00f=00o=00r=00m=00=00i=00n=00 ==00w=00o=00r=00k=00i=00n=00g=00 =00t=00i=00m=00e=00=00=0D=00=0A==00n=00e=00v=00e=00r=00 =00m=00i=00n=00d=00 =00a=00l=00l=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00 =00t=00i=00m=00e=00 =00i=00n=00 ==00b=00e=00t=00w=00e=00e=00n=00 =00t=00a=00k=00i=00n=00g=00 ==00c=00a=00r=00e=00 =00o=00f=00 =00k=00i=00d=00s=00 ==00s=00t=00u=00f=00f=00.=00 =00I=00 =00n=00e=00v=00e=00r=00 ==00s=00a=00t=00 =00d=00o=00w=00n=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00i=00n=00 =00f=00i=00g=00u=00r=00e=00d=00 =00i=00t=00=00o=00u=00t=00 ==00n=00o=00t=00 =00t=00o=00 =00b=00a=00d=00.=00 =00I=00 ==00w=00i=00s=00h=00 =00s=00a=00n=00d=00i=00n=00g=00=00h=00a=00d=00 ==00a=00 =00s=00h=00o=00r=00t=00 ==00c=00u=00t=00.=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00=00=0D==00=0A==00=00A=00d=00a=00m=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00J=00i=00m=00 =00T=00 ==00w=00r=00o=00t=00e=00:=00=00=00=0D=00=0A= =00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00F=00e=00l=00l=00o=00w=00 ==00N=00o=00d=00e=00l=00e=00s=00s=00 ==00b=00u=00i=00l=00d=00e=00r=00s=00,=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00F=00o=00r=00=00t=00h=00o=00s=00e=00 ==00w=00h=00o=00 =00b=00u=00i=00l=00d=00 ==00n=00o=00d=00e=00l=00e=00s=00s=00 =00a=00n=00d=00=00m=00a=00y=00 ==00u=00s=00e=00 =00T=00i=00t=00e=00b=00o=00n=00d=00=00o=00r=00 ==00T=00i=00t=00e=00b=00o=00n=00d=00 =00=0D=00=0A==00I=00I=00 =00f=00o=00r=00 =00j=00o=00i=00n=00i=00n=00g=00 ==00t=00h=00e=00 =00s=00c=00a=00r=00f=00s=00 =00I=00=00h=00a=00v=00e=00 ==00t=00h=00i=00s=00 =00q=00u=00e=00s=00t=00i=00o=00n=00.=00 ==00H=00o=00w=00 =00l=00o=00n=00g=00 =00d=00o=00=00y=00o=00u=00 ==00m=00a=00i=00n=00t=00a=00i=00n=00 =00t=00h=00e=00=00=0D=00=0A==00s=00c=00a=00r=00f=00 =00u=00n=00d=00e=00r=00=00c=00l=00a=00m=00p=00 ==00a=00f=00t=00e=00r=00 =00g=00l=00u=00i=00n=00g=00 ==00?=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00=00&=00n=00b=00=s=00p=00;=00=00=0D=00=0A==00=00=00J=00i=00m=00 ==00T=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=0D=00=0A==00 from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Tue Nov 20 19:12:59 2001 fAL1CxH25357 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:12:59 - forged)) fAL1Cmdf025462; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:12:48 -0600 Subject: RE: Need Drill Press Advice Bob, I bought a cheap $39.95 drill press from Harbor Freight (HF). I'm inthe process of making my planing forms and it has worked just fine fordrilling my holes in the 3/4" steel. It is definitely not the top of theline but for less than $40 it is definitely a great buy. The only problem Isaw was a little rust on the taper that accepts the chuck. I took somesteel wool, turned on the drill press, and off came the rust and the chuckwent on great. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message----- Subject: Need Drill Press Advice I'd like to buy a drill press to primarily use with rodmaking and makingreel seat inserts, etc. Any suggestions as to size, power (hp), speeds,swing, spindle travel, etc? I've never owned one before and haven'tused one since junior high shop class...back when Johnson waspresident. I'm interested in getting something I can put on my bench touse and store it away when not in use. I currently do some small stuffwith a Sherline lathe and a milling column but want something I can grabto use and not have to convert my lathe back and forth. I'm thinkingabout a Grizzly and hope to visit their PA warehouse over theThanksgiving weekend Any and all suggestions will be aprreciated. ThanksBob Williams from pohl@earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 19:46:26 2001 fAL1kPH26860 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:46:25 - id 166MSq-00077D-00; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:46:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Need Drill Press Advice Bob, I too am looking into building a set of forms. A machinist recommended to mean Enco drill press and told me to use ~ 500 rpm for drilling cold rollsteel. -Mark ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Need Drill Press Advice Bob, I bought a cheap $39.95 drill press from Harbor Freight (HF). I'm inthe process of making my planing forms and it has worked just fine fordrilling my holes in the 3/4" steel. It is definitely not the top of theline but for less than $40 it is definitely a great buy. The only problem I saw was a little rust on the taper that accepts the chuck. I took somesteel wool, turned on the drill press, and off came the rust and the chuckwent on great. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:04 PM Subject: Need Drill Press Advice I'd like to buy a drill press to primarily use with rodmaking and makingreel seat inserts, etc. Any suggestions as to size, power (hp), speeds,swing, spindle travel, etc? I've never owned one before and haven'tused one since junior high shop class...back when Johnson waspresident. I'm interested in getting something I can put on my bench touse and store it away when not in use. I currently do some small stuffwith a Sherline lathe and a milling column but want something I can grabto use and not have to convert my lathe back and forth. I'm thinkingabout a Grizzly and hope to visit their PA warehouse over theThanksgiving weekend Any and all suggestions will be aprreciated. ThanksBob Williams from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 19:48:15 2001 fAL1mEH27062 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:48:14 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:48:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Nodeless Gluing FILETIME=[9024FDD0:01C1722E] I clamp for 1/2 to 1 hour but I don't stress the strips for 24 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Nodeless Gluing Fellow Nodeless builders, ing the scarfs I have this question. How long do you maintain the scarf u=nder clamp after gluing ? Jim T I clamp for 1/2 to 1 hour but I don't str= Tuesday, = Nodeles= Nodeless bu= T from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Nov 20 19:54:05 2001 fAL1s0H27499 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:54:04 - Subject: flawed varnish coat Well... I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dip in the tube would correct theproblem I'm having with my varnish. There are three places on this new rodbutt which look like inch long slivers, wider in the center, on the flatnear the apex on the guide facet, where the varnish just won't stick. Idipped the rod three times without the guides and it looked great. I putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these bare spots suddenly appeared.They weren't there before. I thought re-sanding and re-dipping were worth a try. No luck, again. I'm using Helsman spar urthane. The guides are Snake Brand. The stripperis a GW agate. The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other than that, the finish looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? TIA,David from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 19:55:58 2001 fAL1tvH27784 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:55:57 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:55:52 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: animals etc - not rodmaking FILETIME=[A638BC50:01C1722F] What are the dates, agenda, location, etc. of the N.Z. gathering? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: animals etc - not rodmaking In response to Tom's very valid comment about the archives I have changed=the thread name. However I could not miss the chance to advertise the "r=eal" southern rodmakers gathering to be held in New Zealand next year ( w=ow - did I use that naughty word " advertise" ) =- Original Message ----- From: Ian Kearney Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 5:22 PM RodmakersPost Subject: Re: animals etc -no= response =to Tom's very valid comment about the archives I have changed the thread =name. However I could not miss the chance to advertise the "real" souther= from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 20 20:01:21 2001 fAL21FH28171 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:01:15 - Subject: RE: flawed varnish coat Could it be something from the solder on the agate? Open the Sam Adamsanyway.Bob -----Original Message----- K.J. Scott Subject: flawed varnish coat Well... I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dip in the tube would correct theproblem I'm having with my varnish. There are three places on this new rodbutt which look like inch long slivers, wider in the center, on the flatnear the apex on the guide facet, where the varnish just won't stick. Idipped the rod three times without the guides and it looked great. I putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these bare spots suddenly appeared.They weren't there before. I thought re-sanding and re-dipping were worth a try. No luck, again. I'm using Helsman spar urthane. The guides are Snake Brand. The stripperis a GW agate. The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other than that, the finish looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? TIA,David from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 20 20:13:04 2001 fAL2D3H28815 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:13:03 - (authenticated) Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:12:43 -0800 Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat David, Is it possible that you sanded through the previous coats and left an edgethat the varnish can't quite fill? I've done that, and my only solution was tosand back down to bare fibers, leaving no edges for the varnish to cover. Or, is it possible that the cleaner you used left some sort of residue?I've done that too. One more question... was the spot there before wrapping the guides? Harry "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott" wrote: I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dip in the tube would correct theproblem I'm having with my varnish. There are three places on this new rodbutt which look like inch long slivers -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 20 20:22:40 2001 fAL2MeH29426 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:22:40 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:32:39 - Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question JMHO, but you guys who are climb cutting with a router or attempting tocut something as crooked as a bamboo culm on a table saw are on borrowedtime, keep your hospitalization insurance current because you are goingto need it someday! I work with all kinds of power tools all day, everyday and both these practises are extremely dangerous, not only to you,but to any bystanders. A few years ago, one of the most experiencedemployees of Cooper Stair, a highly respected stair building company inthe Chicago area, was killed by a piece of oak kicking back in the tablesaw, he took the piece right in the belly and it not only went cleanthru him, it hit his spine while it was at it. When you feed somethingclimb cut thru a router table, it wants to take it away from you andeventually(as Bob found out) it will, if you are real lucky, it won'ttake your fingers off when it does, but if you have made enough passesthru the machine that it has some sharp corners on it, then don't bet onthe outcome. Of course, you are all adults and free to do as you choose,but be careful!John from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 20:23:38 2001 fAL2NcH29573 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:23:38 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:23:32 -0800 "DaveandKathy" ,"RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat FILETIME=[841F0AD0:01C17233] Sounds like you may have picked up some silicone contamination or grease=or something. If it only happened to the butt section it can't be the v=arnish. Did you use any medical syringes to mix something? They have si=licone in them-I guess to keep the plunger from sticking while in storage=. There's a snake in the wood pile somewhere....oops! No more about sna=kes. The Sam Adams may help you think..... -----Original Message----- K.J. Scott Subject: flawed varnish coat Well... I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dip in the tube would correct theproblem I'm having with my varnish. There are three places on this new r=odbutt which look like inch long slivers, wider in the center, on the flatnear the apex on the guide facet, where the varnish just won't stick. Idipped the rod three times without the guides and it looked great. I putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these bare spots suddenly appeared=\.They weren't there before. I thought re-sanding and re-dipping were worth a try. No luck, again. I'm using Helsman spar urthane. The guides are Snake Brand. The strippe=ris a GW agate. The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other than that, the finish looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? TIA,David ike you may have picked up some silicone contamination or grease or somet= ave silicone in them-I guess to keep the plunger from sticking while in s= rodmake= Behalf=Of D.P. Van Burgel &K.J. ScottSent: Tuesday, November 20,20= varnish c=oatWell...I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dipi= There are three places on this new rodbutt which look like inch long=slivers, wider in the center, on the flatnear the apex on the guide = e times without the guides and it looked great. I putthe guides on an=d dipped it again, and these bare spots suddenly appeared.They weren'=t there before.I thought re-sanding and re-dipping were worth a t= Th= agate.The= -on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams?Anythoughts?TIA,David from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 20 20:29:30 2001 fAL2TOH00140 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:29:24 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:39:26 - Subject: Re: Need Drill Press Advice Robert;I bought a Craftsman benchtop model and after drilling my forms, therewas enough play in the quill so it isn't much good for anything otherthat running a small sanding drum. John Robert S Williams wrote: I'd like to buy a drill press to primarily use with rodmaking and makingreel seat inserts, etc. Any suggestions as to size, power (hp), speeds,swing, spindle travel, etc? I've never owned one before and haven'tused one since junior high shop class...back when Johnson waspresident. I'm interested in getting something I can put on my bench touse and store it away when not in use. I currently do some small stuffwith a Sherline lathe and a milling column but want something I can grabto use and not have to convert my lathe back and forth. I'm thinkingabout a Grizzly and hope to visit their PA warehouse over theThanksgiving weekend Any and all suggestions will be aprreciated. ThanksBob Williams from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Nov 20 20:30:15 2001 fAL2UEH00267 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:30:14 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:27:22 -0500 Subject: snakes Peter: Next time you're back in Georgia, we'll take you trolling foralligators..... from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 20 20:35:17 2001 fAL2ZGH01003 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:35:16 -0600 helo=default) id 166NEI-0004Co-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:35:15 -0500 Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat I can't really offer anything that hasn't already been said, however I =certainly concur on the Sam Adams, provided it is one of their better =potables. None of that girly beer, David."We are men. We are Devo." M-D Sounds like you may have picked up some silicone contamination or =grease or something. If it only happened to the butt section it can't =be the varnish. Did you use any medical syringes to mix something? =They have silicone in them-I guess to keep the plunger from sticking =while in storage. There's a snake in the wood pile somewhere....oops! =No more about snakes. The Sam Adams may help you think..... From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Well... I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dip in the tube would correct =theproblem I'm having with my varnish. There are three places on this =new rodbutt which look like inch long slivers, wider in the center, on the =flatnear the apex on the guide facet, where the varnish just won't stick. =Idipped the rod three times without the guides and it looked great. I =putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these bare spots suddenly =appeared.They weren't there before. I thought re-sanding and re-dipping were worth a try. No luck, again. I'm using Helsman spar urthane. The guides are Snake Brand. The =stripperis a GW agate. The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other than that, the finish =looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on =poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? TIA,David I can't really offer anything that= already been said, however I certainly concur on the Sam Adams, provided = David. Devo." M-D John = They have silicone in them-I guess to keep the plunger from sticking = From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= hoped that re-sanding and another dip in the tube would correct = rodbutt which look like inch long slivers, wider in the center, on = flatnear the apex on the guide facet, where the varnish just won't = great. I putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these bare = suddenly appeared.They weren't there before.I thought = stripperis a GW agate.The tips didn't do it, just the = thoughts?TIA,David from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Nov 20 20:36:40 2001 fAL2aeH01176 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:36:40 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:33:52 -0500 Subject: drill press Robert: I'm using the little Ryobi which I got at Home Depot for $99. Looked ata couple of others in this range and found runout to be a problem withone, erratic feed with the other. One was a Delta, but don't rememberthe other brand. The Ryobi has worked well, even using a mortisingattachment. Made an extra column (correct term?), 3" taller for themortiser. from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Nov 20 20:38:22 2001 fAL2cLH01419 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:38:21 - Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:35:42 -0500 From:dpvbkjs@somtel.com (D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott)Subject:Re: flawed varnish coat David, Is it possible that you sanded through the previous coats and left an edgethat the varnish can't quite fill? I've done that, and my only solutionwas tosand back down to bare fibers, leaving no edges for the varnish to cover. I only really dulled the finish with 1200 grit 3M Imperial wet/dry Or, is it possible that the cleaner you used left some sort of residue? Maybe thats the problem, I just rubbed it clean with a "lint free" cheesecloth as it hadden done it on the guide free blank I've done that too. One more question... was the spot there before wrapping the guides? No, the blank looked great David from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Tue Nov 20 20:41:16 2001 fAL2fBH01723 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:41:11 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:41:06 -0800 Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:41:06 GMT Subject: KEVIN ERK FILETIME=[F84773F0:01C17235] Kevin-Please contact me off list. I lost your email addy.Thanks for the bandwidth,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 20:47:26 2001 fAL2lPH02098 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:47:25 - ([209.178.135.208] helo=g2t8c9) id 166NQ3-0001lE-00; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:47:24 -0800 Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question Wow,That was horrible. To bad, I wonder if he had the guard removed and the antikick back off? I always learned that when cutting on a table saw you neverstand behind the wood, always to the side. It is the same with the beveller,always to the side and always small cuts. And a good big guard in place. Adam Vigil John wrote:A few years ago, one of the most experiencedemployees of Cooper Stair, a highly respected stair building company inthe Chicago area, was killed by a piece of oak kicking back in the tablesaw, he took the piece right in the belly and it not only went cleanthru him, it hit his spine while it was at it. John from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Tue Nov 20 20:56:18 2001 fAL2uIH02493 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:56:18 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:56:16 -0600 Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat I've heard about the silicone problem so I have avoided anything I'm awareof. I have been making little sanding sticks from wooden coffee stirsticks and 1200 grit sandpaper glued to them with a glue stick. I've usedthem to flatten the flats on the guide wraps between coats of varnish.Maybe I am getting some contamination from the glue stick. oh boy -- David Sounds like you may have picked up some silicone contamination or greaseor something. If it only happened to the butt section it can't be thevarnish. Did you use any medical syringes to mix something? They havesilicone in them-I guess to keep the plunger from sticking while instorage. There's a snake in the wood pile somewhere....oops! No moreabout snakes. The Sam Adams may help you think..... John -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu K.J. ScottSent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:52 PM Subject: flawed varnish coat Well... I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dip in the tube would correct theproblem I'm having with my varnish. There are three places on this new rodbutt which look like inch long slivers, wider in the center, on the flatnear the apex on the guide facet, where the varnish just won't stick. Idipped the rod three times without the guides and it looked great. I putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these bare spots suddenly appeared.They weren't there before. I thought re-sanding and re-dipping were worth a try. No luck, again. I'm using Helsman spar urthane. The guides are Snake Brand. The stripperis a GW agate. The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other than that, the finish looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? TIA,David you may have picked up some silicone contamination or grease or They have silicone in them-I guess to keep the plunger from sticking while may OriginalMessage-----From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of D.P. Van Burgel &K.J. ScottSent: Tuesday, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:flawed varnish coatWell...I'd hoped that re-sandingand another dip in the tube would correct theproblem I'm having with look like inch long slivers, wider in the center, on the flatnear the putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these bare spots suddenlyappeared.They weren't there before.I thought re-sandingand stripperis a GW agate.The tips didn't do it, just the ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on poly.Or should I justopen a Sam Adams?Anythoughts?TIA,David from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 20 20:57:55 2001 fAL2vKH02653 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:57:21 - 20 Nov 2001 20:43:33 -0500 Subject: Hardy JJH Triumph taper I just recieved this rod from Jim Bresko today, and it is a very plain,pretty rod. Hardy JJH Triumph Palakona rod8'9" for #6 line 0 090 2455 105 26510 125 27615 144 28520 160 29625 171 31030 178 32035 195 33340 209 34345 219 35050 225 35055 230 350 Butt guides 5.5, 22Tip guides 3.875, 9.5, 16, 23.5, 33.25, 44 Butt is 53.75" and tip is 52.75" (an inch too long for marked size?)The rod has a nice light feeling in hand, although it was dark before Iuntubed it. Almost too dark to cast. I will let anyone interested know howit casts tomorrow. It felt good, but I could not see the line moving. Anyone ever seen this model before? I hope to try it out this weekend onlittle steelies. I am afriad the agate tip top is too small for a modernline. I used a silk to test it tonight.Best regards,Bob from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 20:59:35 2001 fAL2xUH02916 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:59:30 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:59:29 PST Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat This has happened to me periodically and I do twothings which eliminate it for me. It only happens onthe butt and usually somewhere between the cork andmaybe 12" down from there. I believe it iscontamination of some kind, and attribute it to thesurface of the rod and not the finish in the tank.Either hand oils from wrapping, or glue residue thatdidn't get completly scraped/sanded away from thesurface. I don't know what it is, just theorizing. Wipe the rod down with acetone prior to dipping. Thisremoves any hand oils left from wrapping, and nearlyalways prevents the dimple from appearing for me. If you still get one of these spots after wiping theblank with acetone then here is a procedure I use thatworks for me. I use a dip tube, and watch the blank as I extract it.If I see this kind of spot forming, I lower the blankback into the finish above this point, let it sitmaybe 30 seconds longer, and then extract again at mynormal rate. It works everytime. I don't know why,accept agitating the finish and covering the areaagain apparently reactivates the base finish andsolves whatever the problem is. It's as if the finish flows away from a spot on theapex and that leaves the long dimple. The wider flatson the butt section apparently foster it. I'm sureit's something on the blank because I may do multiplerods at the same setting, and it might only happen onone of the butt sections while others come out of thetank fine. If my varnish were contaminated I wouldthink it would be a problem on all the sections.Re-submerging the blank while it's wet will somehowresolve the problem. If you use a quick drying polyurethane you have alimited amount of time to respond to avoid creating aline in the finish. Chris McDowell --- "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott"wrote: Well... I'd hoped that re-sanding and another dip in thetube would correct theproblem I'm having with my varnish. There are threeplaces on this new rodbutt which look like inch long slivers, wider in thecenter, on the flatnear the apex on the guide facet, where the varnishjust won't stick. Idipped the rod three times without the guides and itlooked great. I putthe guides on and dipped it again, and these barespots suddenly appeared.They weren't there before. I thought re-sanding and re-dipping were worth atry. No luck, again. I'm using Helsman spar urthane. The guides areSnake Brand. The stripperis a GW agate. The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other thanthat, the finish looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up usingminwax wipe-on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? TIA,David __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 20 21:10:28 2001 fAL3AMH03436 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:10:22 - Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:10:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question FILETIME=[0B9CA750:01C1723A] Maybe I'll switch mine back! John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question JMHO, but you guys who are climb cutting with a router or attempting tocut something as crooked as a bamboo culm on a table saw are on borrowedtime, keep your hospitalization insurance current because you are goingto need it someday! I work with all kinds of power tools all day, everyday and both these practises are extremely dangerous, not only to you,but to any bystanders. A few years ago, one of the most experiencedemployees of Cooper Stair, a highly respected stair building company inthe Chicago area, was killed by a piece of oak kicking back in the tablesaw, he took the piece right in the belly and it not only went cleanthru him, it hit his spine while it was at it. When you feed somethingclimb cut thru a router table, it wants to take it away from you andeventually(as Bob found out) it will, if you are real lucky, it won'ttake your fingers off when it does, but if you have made enough passesthru the machine that it has some sharp corners on it, then don't bet onthe outcome. Of course, you are all adults and free to do as you choose,but be careful!John Maybe I'llswi= channer Sent: Tuesday, November20, 2=001 9:53 PM Cc:RodmakersPos=t Subject: Re: PowerBevelle= clim=b cutting with a router or attempting tocut something as crooked as a=bamboo culm on a table saw are on borrowedtime, keep yourhospitaliz= someday=! I work with all kinds of power tools all day, everyday and both the=se practises are extremely dangerous, not only to you,but to any byst=anders. A few years ago, one of the most experiencedemployees ofCoop=er Stair, a highly respected stair building company inthe Chicago are=a, was killed by a piece of oak kicking back in the tablesaw, he took=the piece right in the belly and it not only went cleanthru him, it =hit his spine while it was at it. When you feed somethingclimb cut th=ru a router table, it wants to take it away from you andeventually(as=Bob found out) it will, if you are real lucky, it won'ttake your fin=gers off when it does, but if you have made enough passesthru themac=hine that it has some sharp corners on it, then don't bet onthe outco=me. Of course, you are all adults and free to do as you choose,but be=careful!John from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 20 21:29:05 2001 fAL3T4H03984 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:29:05 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:39:07 - Subject: Re: Nodeless Gluing Adam;What is this all about, this is the third or fourth post of yours that Ihave seen with this cryptic message in it?John Adam Vigil wrote: ï? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Nov 20 21:40:18 2001 fAL3e3H05046 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:40:17 - Subject: Anchorage Alaska Isn't it funny how your life can change in one day. I have a job offer in Anchorage and I was wondering if anyone lived up there? I was watching PBS tonight thinking about wanting to go back there because there was a show on about fishing there when the phone rang with the offer. WOW !!!!!Bret from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Nov 20 21:46:19 2001 fAL3kHH05358 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:46:18 - Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:45:54 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:45:54 +0800 rodmakers Subject: RE: Nodeless Gluing Hi Jim,I try to leave scarf joints clamped overnight, just to be on thesafe side, but that's probably a bit of overkill. Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Nodeless Gluing Fellow Nodeless builders, the scarfs I have this question. How long do you maintain the scarf underclamp after gluing ? Jim T from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 20 21:47:53 2001 fAL3lqH05508 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:47:52 -0600 helo=default) id 166OMW-0002tU-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:47:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless Gluing I don't get it either B^? M-D Adam;What is this all about, this is the third or fourth post of yours that Ihave seen with this cryptic message in it?John Adam Vigil wrote: ï? from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Nov 20 21:47:53 2001 fAL3lqH05510 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:47:53 - 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other than that, the finish looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? Yeah, I would try a Guinness. Whenever you have problems with finish itsdark beer. Sam Adams is for troubles with straighteneing I believe. Germanpilsners for splitting woes, and belgian trappist for broken blanks in thelathe. Sounds like something got into your cane (like oil or something) that ispreventing the spar to adhere properly. Did you wipe the rod blank downwith thinner or something before dipping?? from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Nov 20 21:52:58 2001 fAL3qrH06109 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:52:53 - Subject: Re: pinning ferrules Another trick is to use dye penetrant (used to find cracks in metals)Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: pinning ferrules If you have trouble finding pins in ferrules try this trick. Get a candleand put lampblack on the ferrule from the candle. After you do this wipe the lampblack off and you should see a little black ring where the ferrule pinis. Works for me.Bret from richjez@enteract.com Tue Nov 20 21:53:54 2001 fAL3rrH06197 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:53:53 - , ,, Subject: Re: Tiger Snakes --=====================_1828796==_.ALT Thing it is the water that causes that?Rich At 11:32 AM 11/20/01, Oscar Segal wrote: I was as sick as dog mate!! I had been well instructed on do's and don't's, and one of them was to visually identify the snake, not to kill it. As you put it, to try to kill it would have been suicide!! My dog, Mayor, was a son of a gun, chaised everything that moved, and the area where we were was infected with Tigers (King Island - Tasmania), therefore the little b...... spent the day barking at them and chasing them until.... good-bye!!! Nonetheless, don't be put off by snake stories. Aussie land is one of the most beautiful places on earth, no doubt. Perhaps, the best 12 years of my life were spent between Western Australia, Victoria, Tazie, and NSW. Besides, I have a daughter born in Onslow - Western Australia, who smoke, drinks, and curses like a sailor, just to remind me constantly of my days spent in the Aussie outback. See ya!!! Tony Young 11/20/01 01:30PM >>> Don't be put off by it. It's a nice place to be. Just be careful that'sall. Dogs really wind them up so after taking care of it I guess it was inno mood to back off. Not all that long ago it used to be recommended you try to kill theoffending snake and take it to the doctor with you for identification. Ileave to your imagination the shenanigans of a bitten person franticallylooking literally for his life for the snake possibly being bitten againand making the venom get around the body faster.That's not recommended any more by the way. Oscar would have been feeling pretty crook I'd imagine. TY At 08:06 AM 11/20/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: i use-to want to go fishing in tasmania! timothy --- Oscar Segal OSEGAL@glcc.com > wrote: I spent 12 years living "down under" and I wasvictim of a tiger snake bite. It first bit my dog,on the snort (it died within a few seconds after thebite), then, faster than you can imagine, bite me onthe front of the leg. I barely made it to a hospitalwhere, on arrival, I was only able to tell them I /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html > Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label:Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_1828796==_.ALT Thing it is the water that causes that?Rich At 11:32 AM 11/20/01, Oscar Segal wrote:I was as sick as dogmate!! I had been well instructed on do's and don't's, andone of them was to visually identify the snake, not to kill it. As youput it, to try to kill it would have beensuicide!! My dog, Mayor, was a son of a gun, chaised everythingthat moved, and the area where we were was infected with Tigers (KingIsland - Tasmania), therefore the little b...... spent the day barking atthem and chasing them until.... good-bye!!! Nonetheless, don't be put off by snake stories.Aussie land is one of the most beautiful places on earth, no doubt.Perhaps, the best 12 years of my life were spent between WesternAustralia, Victoria, Tazie, and NSW. Besides, I have a daughter born inOnslow - Western Australia, who smoke, drinks, and curses like a sailor,just to remind me constantly of my days spent in the Aussieoutback. See ya!!! Don't be put off by it. It's a nice place to be. Just be careful that's all. Dogs really wind them up so after taking care of it I guess it wasin no mood to back off. Not all that long ago it used to be recommended you try to kill the offending snake and take it to the doctor with you for identification. I leave to your imagination the shenanigans of a bitten person frantically looking literally for his life for the snake possibly being bitten again and making the venom get around the body faster. That's not recommended any more by the way. Oscar would have been feeling pretty crook I'd imagine. TY At 08:06 AM 11/20/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_1828796==_.ALT-- from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 20 21:55:31 2001 fAL3tQH06530 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:55:26 - Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question Adam;Yes, he did have the blade guard off and the anti-kickback off, I'm surethe company was fined heavily by OSHA. But, it is very typical of folkswho use these tools everyday(sorry to say, myself included, even tho Iknow better), to get over confident with them. Familiarity does breed acertain amount of contempt. Many of the folks who are taking uprodmaking these days aren't tool users by trade and aren't as familiarwith the damage these things can do as those of us who work with themevery day and I don't want to see anyone get damaged by using a powertool in an inappropriate way. Sharp objects are inheritantly dangerousanyway, use them enough and you will get bit, it is not a matter of IF,it is a matter of WHEN and HOW BAD, that part is up to the user, I knowbecause I have the scars and the hospital bills to prove it. Fortunately length(altho a couple won't stand up straight anymore). As I said, jmho.John Adam Vigil wrote: Wow,That was horrible. To bad, I wonder if he had the guard removed and theantikick back off? I always learned that when cutting on a table saw you neverstand behind the wood, always to the side. It is the same with the beveller,always to the side and always small cuts. And a good big guard in place. Adam Vigil John wrote:A few years ago, one of the most experiencedemployees of Cooper Stair, a highly respected stair building company inthe Chicago area, was killed by a piece of oak kicking back in the tablesaw, he took the piece right in the belly and it not only went cleanthru him, it hit his spine while it was at it. John from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 20 22:01:30 2001 fAL41OH06938 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:01:24 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:11:27 - Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat David;If you are using spar varnish, you can fill the void with a tiny drop ofvarnish, let it dry, sand it flush then dip the rod again and the lineswon't show. This won't work so well with poly because it dries too hardtoo fast.john from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Nov 20 22:05:44 2001 fAL45hH07329 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:05:43 - Subject: Re: Planes Yes you can't use the Veritas angle setter with these blades and angles. I made a simple jig out of plexiglas (wood would work as well)with a square edge and second piece glued on top, withan edge parallel to the 1st square edge and 0.9 inch back. The blade you hold against the second edge and the honing jig buttsagainst the first, then tighten down so you always get a square blade sticking out 0.9" past the jig. Its so simple its hard to explain. I got the idea from this list or maybe a book but I don't remember anymore.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Jacques Follweiler wrote: Just another plane question. Does anyone on the list use a Veritas blockplane and if so how do you set the blade in the Veritas honing guide so it'ssquare to the sharpening stone? The taper toward the rear of the blademakesit very difficult for me to set it up correctly. Due to this odd shapedblade I can't use the standard honing guide that will accommodate therectangular shaped blades used in Stanley and Record planes . TIAJack from lblan@provide.net Tue Nov 20 22:33:16 2001 fAL4XFH08417 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:33:16 - for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:33:14 - Subject: RE: Planes This is similar to the jig in Wayne's book. I think Chris Bogart has a picof a plexiglass jig somewhere on his site too. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:06 PM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Planes Yes you can't use the Veritas angle setter with these blades andangles. I made a simple jig out of plexiglas (wood would work as well)with a square edge and second piece glued on top, withan edge parallel to the 1st square edge and 0.9 inch back. Theblade you hold against the second edge and the honing jig buttsagainst the first, then tighten down so you always get a squareblade sticking out 0.9" past the jig. Its so simple its hard to explain. I got the idea from this listor maybe a book but I don't remember anymore.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Jacques Follweiler wrote: Just another plane question. Does anyone on the list use a Veritas blockplane and if so how do you set the blade in the Veritas honing guide so it's square to the sharpening stone? The taper toward the rear of the blade makes it very difficult for me to set it up correctly. Due to this odd shapedblade I can't use the standard honing guide that will accommodate therectangular shaped blades used in Stanley and Record planes . TIAJack from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 21 00:00:33 2001 fAL60WH11772 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:00:32 - Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat Definately the Guinness. No doubt. I'd recommend the same for the broken blank too. Tony At 10:49 PM 11/20/01 -0500, Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: The tips didn't do it, just the butt. Other than that, the finish looksgreat. I'm about ready to try to touch it up using minwax wipe-on poly.Or should I just open a Sam Adams? Any thoughts? Yeah, I would try a Guinness. Whenever you have problems with finish itsdark beer. Sam Adams is for troubles with straighteneing I believe. Germanpilsners for splitting woes, and belgian trappist for broken blanks in thelathe. Sounds like something got into your cane (like oil or something) that ispreventing the spar to adhere properly. Did you wipe the rod blank downwith thinner or something before dipping?? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Wed Nov 21 02:23:15 2001 fAL8NDH13910 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:23:13 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:23:09 PST Subject: Re: Power Beveller Question John post reminds of a safety measure one shouldseriously consider if cutting culms on a table saw. That is to securely mount some type of spreader on thetable saw top. This helps keep the culm's edges spreadapart after being cut. As I noted in my previous post,the edges binding on the saw blade is a recipe fordisaster. No guarantees though. Also vital is a pair of $6 rubber gloves specificallydesigned for handling sharp glass and metal andavaliable at any OSH. These are the only gloves I'vefound that bamboo will not cut through and are worththeir weight in gold. I also warn folks in my household when I'm about touse bevelers, table saws, lathes and other types ofpotentially dangerous power tools. I ask that theyrefrain from coming in the shop until I'm finished.This started when I was surprised a few times bysomeone standing behind me without me knowing it dueto all the noise. This can very dangerous to yourselfand them be surprised like that. I would add thatthey might consider checking on you if there is a longperiod of silence and I have a habit of emerging fromthe shop beaming proudly or cursing loudly about howthe project went. This also lets them know the coastis clear. As that Sargent on Hill Street Blues used tosay..."Hey, Be Careful Out There." Regards,Chris --- channer wrote: JMHO, but you guys who are climb cutting with arouter or attempting tocut something as crooked as a bamboo culm on a tablesaw are on borrowedtime, keep your hospitalization insurance currentbecause you are goingto need it someday! I work with all kinds of power __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 21 05:06:18 2001 fALB6GH15381 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 05:06:16 - fALB61839446; Subject: Re: Ferrules and Snakes I used REC truncated ferrules on three two-piece rods, one a 7'6" and two7'0" footers. I used them reasoning that they would be lighter (is thatright, by the way?) and that the reduction in moment halfway up the lightrods would make a positive contribution to the action, and interfere lesswith the flexion of the rod. I am not a good enough caster to know about the effect on the action,frankly, but I can say that I fish these rods a lot, one in particular, aPayne 101 copy, and they are standing up well, with no failures so far. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 21 05:27:39 2001 fALBRbH15725 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 05:27:37 - fALBRPL42479; Subject: Re: Planes There is a picture and description of a neat jig in "The Planing Form";can't think just exactly when, but within 12 months, I guess. Peter from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Nov 21 05:34:22 2001 fALBYGH16069 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 05:34:21 - for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:20:12+0100 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:20:11+0100 Subject: Re: Low angle plane I have no problem at all with the 60 1/2 Stanley (with the standard iron).I`ve tried to make a rod with only thisplane, and it was no sweat. I do prefere my Record 9 1/2/Stanley #18 bothwith Hock irons though,but I had no problem with lifting at nodes with the low angle....... danny from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Wed Nov 21 06:28:59 2001 fALCSwH16717 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 06:28:58 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:20:56 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Hardy JJH Triumph taper Bob; Have you put this taper into Bamboo Rodmakers Database yet? If so pleaseexport it with the TDE and email it to me. Thanks Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: Hardy JJH Triumph taper I just recieved this rod from Jim Bresko today, and it is a very plain,pretty rod. Hardy JJH Triumph Palakona rod8'9" for #6 line 0 090 2455 105 26510 125 27615 144 28520 160 29625 171 31030 178 32035 195 33340 209 34345 219 35050 225 35055 230 350 Butt guides 5.5, 22Tip guides 3.875, 9.5, 16, 23.5, 33.25, 44 Butt is 53.75" and tip is 52.75" (an inch too long for marked size?)The rod has a nice light feeling in hand, although it was dark before Iuntubed it. Almost too dark to cast. I will let anyone interested know howit casts tomorrow. It felt good, but I could not see the line moving. Anyone ever seen this model before? I hope to try it out this weekend onlittle steelies. I am afriad the agate tip top is too small for a modernline. I used a silk to test it tonight.Best regards,Bob from harms1@pa.net Wed Nov 21 07:03:01 2001 fALD2tH17593 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:02:55 - for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:00:50 - Subject: stiffening All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's"Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, Ithink it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and runthe brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...]Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipeoff any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] andtry it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill from harms1@pa.net Wed Nov 21 07:05:25 2001 fALD5PH17793 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:05:25 - for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:03:21 - Subject: Martin Keane All, Can any of you help me get in touch with Martin J. Keane, author of "ClassicRods and Rodmakers"? Contact me off-list if you think that to be more appropriate. Thanks in advance,Bill from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 21 07:21:34 2001 fALDLXH18213 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:21:33 - Subject: RE: stiffening Hi Bill:I wondered about that too when I read the book. I think he left the part outwhere the rodmaker passes out from the fumes! Seriously, I guess this issimilar to ammonia toning, but I cannot imagine why you would only do asmall section. I would think that it would change the color.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: stiffening All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's"Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, Ithink it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and runthe brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...]Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipeoff any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] andtry it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 21 08:01:52 2001 fALE1kH19141 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:01:46 - fALE1M821741; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:01:22 -0600 Subject: Re: stiffening I wonder if this would work to darken a blank. Remove it from the oven anddipit in a tube full of ammonia.Never know what might work.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's"Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, Ithink it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and runthe brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...]Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipeoff any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] andtry it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill from jteft@frontiernet.net Wed Nov 21 08:19:15 2001 fALEJEH19934 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:19:14 - Subject: Re: Nodeless Gluing John Thanks to you and everyone for the reply to the Scarf Gluing question. =Sounds like the majority are waiting 12 hours after clamping all those =scarfs. Kicking back having a brew and letting the nerves settle. Which =is plausible. I have been bouncing back and forth on the time but =letting the strips set. Mainly due to the quantity of Pony clamps I own. Jim T Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:47 PMSubject: Re: Nodeless Gluing I clamp for 1/2 to 1 hour but I don't stress the strips for 24 hrs. ----- Original Message -----From: Jim TefftSent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: Nodeless Gluing Fellow Nodeless builders, joining the scarfs I have this question. How long do you maintain the =scarf under clamp after gluing ? Jim T John = Scarf Gluing question. Sounds like the majority are waiting 12 hours = clamping all those scarfs. Kicking back having a brew and letting the = settle. Which is plausible. I have been bouncing back and forth on the = own. Jim T ----- Original Message ----- John = Sent: Tuesday, November 20, = PMSubject: Re: Nodeless =Gluing I clamp for 1/2 to 1 hour but I don't stress the strips for 24 =hrs. ----- Original Message ----- TefftSent: Tuesday, November 20, = PM Subject: Nodeless =Gluing Fellow Nodeless builders, Titebond II for joining the scarfs I have this question. How long do = maintain the scarf under clamp after gluing ? Jim =T from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 21 08:26:51 2001 fALEQpH20713 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:26:51 - helo=default) id 166YKr-0000BT-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:26:46 -0500 Subject: Re: stiffening While I have no idea what effect might be induced by the aqueous ammonia,orammonium hydroxide, upon the bamboo itself, I do know what happens toanhydrous ammonia when added to water -- ammonium ions and hydroxideionsare formed, thus no more water, though the reaction doesn't go tocompletion. It would seem that to have heated the section as hot as is givenhere that we would have driven out quite a bit of moisture, since we allknow that what we want to do is heat the section through, and not merelygetthe outside so hot that we can't hold it.Another thing unclear is whether, or not, the aqueous ammonia ispenetratingthe varnish and even reaching the bamboo itself. I am doubtful that this isoccurring, so am doubtful that any browntoning effects are had. It may bethat with the section heated to such a temperature that the a. ammonia asitevaporates helps to pull the moisture from the section, though we still havethat problem of the varnish. The boiling point of anhydrous ammonia isroughly -28ŸF, and for a. ammonia is roughly 214ŸF, so I can't imagine whatthey are talking about when they say to wipe off any surplus.Ethanol is also fully soluble in water, and might work as well as ammonia,though I wonder about the effect on the varnish. I think that might bedisastrous.So, maybe there is actually something going on with the bamboo itself. Notever having attempted something like this, I have trouble seeing how anyeffect is achieved through the varnish.Word of caution: When using ammonia, in any form, NEVER mix with chlorinebleach. This produces a highly toxic and carcinogenic mixture.Excuse me now while I go test my angling skills upon the wily clever andelusive Brown Trout. }B^)> M-D All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's"Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, Ithink it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and run the brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...]Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipeoff any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] andtry it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 21 08:43:49 2001 fALEhmH21588 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:43:48 - femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Wed, 21 Nov 2001 06:43:48 -0800 Subject: Re: stiffening Haven't tried it but I would think it would darken the blank, especially ifyou left it in the tube full of ammonia for a day or so.Don----- Original Message --- -- Subject: Re: stiffening I wonder if this would work to darken a blank. Remove it from the oven anddipit in a tube full of ammonia.Never know what might work.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's"Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, Ithink it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and run the brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...]Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipeoff any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] andtry it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Nov 21 09:06:46 2001 fALF6eH22537 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:06:40 - Subject: Re: stiffening Back in the early 70's, based on Herter's book, I suspended the bamboosplines in a tube with a pan of aquious ammomia fastened to its bottom.After a week the splines were a deep, almost chocolate, brown. Only fishedthe rod twice before losing it, so have no recollection of itscharacteristics. Couldn't have been much good since I never made anotherwith ammonia. from harms1@pa.net Wed Nov 21 09:20:44 2001 fALFKhH23249 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:20:43 - Subject: Re: stiffening Thanks much for the info. I should have included, when I quoted GeorgeHerter, that the whole procedure is applied to a rod section which has beenstripped of its varnish. I guess I was just thinking about the effects ofHerter's technique if we did it PRIOR to varnishing. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: stiffening While I have no idea what effect might be induced by the aqueous ammonia, or ammonium hydroxide, upon the bamboo itself, I do know what happens toanhydrous ammonia when added to water -- ammonium ions and hydroxideionsare formed, thus no more water, though the reaction doesn't go tocompletion. It would seem that to have heated the section as hot as is given here that we would have driven out quite a bit of moisture, since we allknow that what we want to do is heat the section through, and not merely get the outside so hot that we can't hold it.Another thing unclear is whether, or not, the aqueous ammonia is penetrating the varnish and even reaching the bamboo itself. I am doubtful that this is occurring, so am doubtful that any browntoning effects are had. It may bethat with the section heated to such a temperature that the a. ammoniaas it evaporates helps to pull the moisture from the section, though we still have that problem of the varnish. The boiling point of anhydrous ammonia isroughly -28ŸF, and for a. ammonia is roughly 214ŸF, so I can't imagine what they are talking about when they say to wipe off any surplus.Ethanol is also fully soluble in water, and might work as well as ammonia,though I wonder about the effect on the varnish. I think that might bedisastrous.So, maybe there is actually something going on with the bamboo itself. Notever having attempted something like this, I have trouble seeing how anyeffect is achieved through the varnish.Word of caution: When using ammonia, in any form, NEVER mix withchlorinebleach. This produces a highly toxic and carcinogenic mixture.Excuse me now while I go test my angling skills upon the wily clever andelusive Brown Trout. }B^)> M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's "Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, I think it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and run the brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...] Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipe off any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] and try it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Nov 21 09:30:54 2001 fALFUmH23786 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:30:53 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:30:43 -0800 Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat FILETIME=[7B94B950:01C172A1] You could also have tac rag contamination. Some of them out there are no=t right for our work. I now use a paper towel dripping with alcohol and =like it better. M-D put up a post not too long ago about tac rags. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat David;If you are using spar varnish, you can fill the void with a tiny drop ofvarnish, let it dry, sand it flush then dip the rod again and the lineswon't show. This won't work so well with poly because it dries too hardtoo fast.john You couldalso= ----- Original Message ----- From:channer Sent: Wednesday,November 21=, 2001 12:09 AM Cc:rodmaker=s@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: = u=sing spar varnish, you can fill the void with a tiny drop ofvarnish, =let it dry, sand it flush then dip the rod again and the lineswon't s=how. This won't work so well with poly because it dries too hardtoo f=ast.john from rmoon@ida.net Wed Nov 21 09:44:30 2001 fALFiTH24726 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:44:29 - 0000 Subject: Re: Nodeless Gluing JohnI am not really very knowedgeable about this, but I did run into it whenI was trying to affix a signature to my email. It seems that my browserdoes not recognize a "doc" extension for this purpose. You have tochange the "doc" to "txt"in your signature file.Give it a try Adam Ralph from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Nov 21 09:58:46 2001 fALFwjH25698 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:58:46 - Subject: Bowling alley wax I read the threads the other week about using wax, tried it and really likethe out come.My question is, has anyone used this on a unfinished (non- varnished) blank.My thought is this, varnish adds weight and changes the castingcharacteristics of the rod, if no varnish is added, just polish the blankoccasionally, would this provide sufficient protection from moisture? Lightweight rods might benefit from this keeping them lighter. Reason is, I have a 6' 3wt that I liked a lot better test casting for guidespacing before it was varnished, now that is varnished, it seems too slow,bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighter line, but loose too muchdistance on the casting especially with any wind at all. Anyone ever try this? Pete from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Wed Nov 21 10:01:40 2001 fALG1eH26001 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:01:40 - for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:00:48 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:01:27 -0800 Subject: RE: stiffening I've done this. Soaked a unvarnished blank in household ammonia in a pvcpipe. Got a nice even brown color, didn't notice any stiffening though.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:56 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: stiffening I wonder if this would work to darken a blank. Remove it from the oven anddipit in a tube full of ammonia.Never know what might work.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's "Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, I think it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and run the brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...] Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipe off any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] and try it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from stoltz10@home.com Wed Nov 21 10:07:49 2001 fALG7nH26448 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:07:49 - femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Re: stiffening Darryl how long did you soak it? from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Nov 21 10:10:03 2001 fALG9vH26710 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:09:57 - for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:09:49 - Subject: Re: stiffening Ted Knott wrote: > Bill, Ted and List: Have had some recent experience, though minor. Glued small glass bottle onto a plastic tube, poured in some blueprint ammonia(fm= blueprint supply house Ted Knott wrote: t;<Back in the early 70's, based on Herter's book, I suspended thebamboo=splines in a tube with a pan of aquious ammomia fastened to its bottom.After a week the splines were a deep, almost chocolate, brown.=A0Only f=ishedthe rod twice before losing it, so have no recollection of itscharacteristics.=A0 Couldn't have been much good since I never madeanot=her Bill, Ted and List: Have had some recent experience, though minor. =;Glued a small glass bottle onto a plastic tube, poured in some blueprint am=monia (fm blueprint supply house <$5/gal) and suspended unvarnishedblank= on= culms had different effects, from deep brown to more copper colored. ot sure if it changed the modulus of the cane, but should be fairly easy do a before/after flex test to find out. the c=opper and if the cane touches the affected area, a black staining results. &= ferrule=s would also be affected. Note: also do not use plastic fluorescent bulb covers for a tube; theam= Depot. &n=bsp;Friend Joe Byrd made a really spiffy setup using those tubes with plasti=c plumbing parts that can be kept in his basement shop while the ammoniawor=ks it's magic. Best regards, Richard Tyree from darrell@vFish.net Wed Nov 21 10:47:13 2001 fALGlCH28579 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:47:12 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:47:07 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: Interesting... the price is now $350... Still that's a fair price thesedays. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 U.S. Toll-Free Order Line (877) 452-2420 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message----- RodCompany Subject: HI Guys (and Gals):Hate to be the one to spend your money, but there is a copy of the Keanebook available athttp://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetails?bi=92060444It's $280, but I know some people want it and it is hard to find. I willstick to the library copy. (Spent too much $$$ on the Lambuth book thisweekalready). Bob Maulucci218 Wallace AvenueBuffalo, NY 14216716-836-8297 home716- 867-0523 cellularhttp://www.powerfibers.comhttp://www.downandacross.com from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Nov 21 11:17:54 2001 fALHHrH01229 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:17:53 - fALHHo822072; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:17:51 -0600 Subject: Re: stiffening I think I may try it wilh a bad blank when I get one.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Don Schneider wrote: Haven't tried it but I would think it would darken the blank, especially ifyou left it in the tube full of ammonia for a day or so.Don----- Original Message --- --From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:56 AMSubject: Re: stiffening I wonder if this would work to darken a blank. Remove it from the oven anddipit in a tube full of ammonia.Never know what might work.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I recently ran across this strange little piece of advice in the Herter's"Rod Building Manual" (1949). I have never heard of this, andI am wondering if any of you might know anything about it. Personally, Ithink it's bogus, or we would have been doing this all along, but Herterseems quite positive. Here goes: "Soft rods can usually be stiffened by the following method.[...] Hold the area of the rod section you desire to stiffen over[an] electric plate until it is so warm that you can just barelyhandle it. Now take a brush, dip it into household ammonia and run the brush quickly over the area of the rod you wish to stiffen. [...]Let the ammonia remain on the rod section for five minutes; then wipeoff any surplus. Let the rod section cool, assemble it [...] andtry it for stiffness. If it is not stiff enough repeat theprocess until the section is as stiff as required." (p.92) What's up with that? cheers, Bill from stoltz10@home.com Wed Nov 21 12:23:53 2001 fALINrH03769 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:23:53 - femail32.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: test delete from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 21 12:38:43 2001 fALIcgH04389 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:38:42 - femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Yellowstone River Planning my trips for the summer of 2002. Thinking about fishing the =Yellowstone around Livingston, Montana for a week. When is the best =time? Hatches etc.?Thanks in advance, Don Planning my trips for the summer of = about fishing the Yellowstone around Livingston, Montana for a week. = best time? Hatches etc.?Thanks in advance, Don from rextutor@about.com Wed Nov 21 12:48:32 2001 fALImWH04983 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:48:32 - (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: Yellowstone River August - grasshoppersSign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from dryfly@erols.com Wed Nov 21 13:12:34 2001 fALJCYH05901 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:12:34 - ([208.58.202.22] helo=erols.com) id 166cnJ-0000eZ-00; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:12:25 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Maybe more of us will be selling our copies. from DNHayashida@aol.com Wed Nov 21 14:04:48 2001 fALK4lH08459 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:04:47 - Subject: Re: stiffening 24 hrs. In a message dated 11/21/01 8:08:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, stoltz10@home.com writes: arryl how long did you soak it? 24 hrs. In a message dated 11/21/01 8:08:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,stoltz10@home.com writes:arryl how long did you soak it? from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Nov 21 14:30:23 2001 fALKUMH09512 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:30:22 - , Subject: Re: pinning ferrules A good substitute for the dye is a dark blue or black magic marker. -Doug At 07:51 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, Ray Gould wrote: Another trick is to use dye penetrant (used to find cracks in metals)Ray----- Original Message -----From: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 7:33 AMSubject: Re: pinning ferrules If you have trouble finding pins in ferrules try this trick. Get a candleand put lampblack on the ferrule from the candle. After you do this wipe the lampblack off and you should see a little black ring where the ferrule pinis. Works for me.Bret Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Nov 21 15:11:14 2001 fALLBDH10985 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:11:14 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:11:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Hardy JJH Triumph taper Bob,The following information has been extracted from one of my ancientHardy catalogues; The late JJHardy,,Professional Trout and Salmon Casting Champ made atNorwood in 1931 the splendid cast of 27 yds with the first one of theseHardy Palakona Cane Rods weighing only 4 1/2ozs.Specifcation;Action;Stiff with great powerHandle;10 1/4ins cork coveredPieces;three with two topsJoints; SuctionRings; 'Sildur'butt Agatipe end and steel snakesTyings; ordinary spaced crimson silk,intermediate.Rings and jointscrimson silk tipped with scarlet silkReel Fittings;Adjustable ring and housed butt capContainer;Proofed cloth partition bag with pocket for end stoppersLength; 8' 9"Weight; 5 1/4 ozsAlso available in two pieces with one top to the same specificationLength; 8' 9"Weight; 4 3/4 oz NB This rod was not made as a special tournament casting rod but anactual dry fly rod of very pleasant balance. Please note that all the above is all as copied from the Hardy Cataloguethat I have....interesting to see the difference in rod weights! Tight lines all.........Paul Bob Maulucci wrote: I just recieved this rod from Jim Bresko today, and it is a very plain,pretty rod. Hardy JJH Triumph Palakona rod8'9" for #6 line 0 090 2455 105 26510 125 27615 144 28520 160 29625 171 31030 178 32035 195 33340 209 34345 219 35050 225 35055 230 350 Butt guides 5.5, 22Tip guides 3.875, 9.5, 16, 23.5, 33.25, 44 Butt is 53.75" and tip is 52.75" (an inch too long for marked size?)The rod has a nice light feeling in hand, although it was dark before Iuntubed it. Almost too dark to cast. I will let anyone interested know howit casts tomorrow. It felt good, but I could not see the line moving. Anyone ever seen this model before? I hope to try it out this weekend onlittle steelies. I am afriad the agate tip top is too small for a modernline. I used a silk to test it tonight.Best regards,Bob from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Nov 21 15:27:00 2001 fALLQsH12047 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:26:54 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax Peter, I haven't tried a finish of wax with no other coating, but I can think of nothing to suggest it would not be effective. Waxed oak was a popular furniture finish at one time (1800's). Wax is really the superior finish in terms of repelling water and water vapor. Perhaps a light rub with tung oil (which is a poor finish as regards water permeability but is attractive to some) and then just use wax. Conservators of historic artifacts rely upon Rennaissance Wax (a micro-crystalline wax) for all their wood and metal artifacts. You might want to try Rennaissance. (Usual disclaimer) Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Peter Van Schaack wrote: I read the threads the other week about using wax, tried it and really likethe out come.My question is, has anyone used this on a unfinished (non- varnished) blank.My thought is this, varnish adds weight and changes the castingcharacteristics of the rod, if no varnish is added, just polish the blankoccasionally, would this provide sufficient protection from moisture? Lightweight rods might benefit from this keeping them lighter. Reason is, I have a 6' 3wt that I liked a lot better test casting for guidespacing before it was varnished, now that is varnished, it seems too slow,bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighter line, but loose too muchdistance on the casting especially with any wind at all. Anyone ever try this? Pete -- > from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Nov 21 15:31:52 2001 Received: from Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:31:46 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [63.48.88.127] From: "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Bowling alley MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------ be interesting to experiment with some sort of hot wax applicati= on to getperhaps a little more penetration. Isn't carnuba wax just abou= t the week about using wax, tried it and really li= ke the out come. My question is,has anyone used this on a unfinished (non-varnished) blan= k. My thought isthis, varnish adds weight and changes the casting characteristics of the rod,if no varnish is added, just polish the blank occasionally, would this providesufficient protection from moisture? Lig= ht weight rods might benefit fromthis keeping them lighter. Reason is, I have a 6' 3wt that I liked a lot bettertest casting for gu= ide spacing before it was varnished, now that isvarnished, it seems too slow= , bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighterline, but loose too much distance on the casting especially with any wind atall. Anyone ever try this? Pete ------ It would bein= teresting to experiment with some sort of hot wax application to get AM T= o: Rod Makers (E-mail) Subje= ct: Bowling about using wax, tried it and really likethe out come.M= y questionis, has anyone used this on a unfinished (non-varnished) blank= .Mythought is this, varnish adds weight and changes the castingc=haracteristics of the rod, if no varnish is added, just polish the blankoccasionally, would this provide sufficient protection from moisture? =Lightweight rods might benefit from this keeping them eems too slow,bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighter line, b=ut loose too muchdistance on the casting especially with any wind at =all.Anyone ever trythis?Pete= from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Nov 21 15:40:36 2001 fALLeZH13199 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:40:35 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:40:22 -0800 Subject: Thanksgiving FILETIME=[1FC047A0:01C172D5] To our list members down under and the many other countries, this is wher=e us Yanks drink wine, pig out on a lot of fowl, thank the bamboo gods, t=hen lay around like beached whales to recover and then eat turkey sandwic= Starving myself until tomorrow, HappyThanksgi= f= unti= from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 21 15:44:07 2001 fALLi1H13528 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:44:01 -0600 21 Nov 2001 13:44:01 PST Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax --- John Long wrote: It would be interesting to experiment with some sortof hot wax application to get perhaps a little morepenetration. Isn't carnuba wax just about thetoughest wax out there? john ----- Original Message -----From: Peter Van SchaackSent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:02 AM Subject: Bowling alley waxI read the threads the other week about using wax,tried it and really likethe out come.My question is, has anyone used this on a unfinished(non-varnished) blank.My thought is this, varnish adds weight and changesthe castingcharacteristics of the rod, if no varnish is added,just polish the blankoccasionally, would this provide sufficientprotection from moisture? Lightweight rods might benefit from this keeping themlighter. Reason is, I have a 6' 3wt that I liked a lotbetter test casting for guidespacing before it was varnished, now that isvarnished, it seems too slow,bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighterline, but loose too muchdistance on the casting especially with any wind atall. Anyone ever try this? Pete ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 21 15:45:23 2001 fALLjLH13690 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:45:21 - Subject: RE: Personally, when I look at the money that I/we spend on books, it is atravesty. I have read the Keane book several times at the library, but$250? $350? No way. It's not that good of a book. And by that I mean: Whatbook is good enough to be worth $350? It is not $350 exceptional in anyaesthetic or academic way.You could get the books by Wayne, George and Bernard, Jack Howell, Ray, andAJ Campbell and possibly still have enough money for the Sinclairrestoration book. Those are all great books for what they are priced at.Another great buy is Judith Dunham's Art of the Salmon Fly. I got mine used enjoy flipping through it.It's like professional sports tickets, they are not going to get cheaperuntil we stop paying the money for them. Unless a cheap Trout Tackle IIfalls into my hands, I will be saving my book money for a while.Rant off,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Maybe more of us will be selling our copies. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Nov 21 15:47:21 2001 fALLlKH14044 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:47:20 -0600 21 Nov 2001 13:47:12 PST Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax i have looked all around this part of the world andchecked all my mail order sources and chased aroundthe net and i am unable to find anyone who sellsbowling alley. if anyone has any suggestions where imight purchase this i would appreciate it if you wouldpass on the info to me. timothy --- John Long wrote: It would be interesting to experiment with some sortof hot wax application to get perhaps a little morepenetration. Isn't carnuba wax just about thetoughest wax out there? john ----- Original Message -----From: Peter Van SchaackSent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:02 AM Subject: Bowling alley waxI read the threads the other week about using wax,tried it and really likethe out come.My question is, has anyone used this on a unfinished(non-varnished) blank.My thought is this, varnish adds weight and changesthe castingcharacteristics of the rod, if no varnish is added,just polish the blankoccasionally, would this provide sufficientprotection from moisture? Lightweight rods might benefit from this keeping themlighter. Reason is, I have a 6' 3wt that I liked a lotbetter test casting for guidespacing before it was varnished, now that isvarnished, it seems too slow,bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighterline, but loose too muchdistance on the casting especially with any wind atall. Anyone ever try this? Pete ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 21 15:51:02 2001 fALLp1H14481 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:51:01 - Subject: RE: Hardy JJH Triumph taper Thanks Paul:I appreciate that a lot. I cast the rod for real this morning. Myimpressions:It is more of a 5/6 than a 6 wt. It needs more guides. It does possess thatgreat kerpow! action that I like, and I could throw a long line. I think itwould make a great light steelie rod with more guides. It only has 7. Iwould add 3 or 4. I feel that these parabolic style rods are better withmore than 1 guide per foot.IMHO,Bob -----Original Message----- The late JJHardy,,Professional Trout and Salmon Casting Champ made atNorwood in 1931 the splendid cast of 27 yds with the first one of theseHardy Palakona Cane Rods weighing only 4 1/2ozs. NB This rod was not made as a special tournament casting rod but anactual dry fly rod of very pleasant balance. from rextutor@about.com Wed Nov 21 15:53:53 2001 fALLrqH14821 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:53:52 - (NPlex 5.5.029) 2001 13:46:55 -0800 Subject: Website I have been asked how documents (rod building information or instructions) and / or pictures can be put on a web site. It is pretty easy. There are several free sources for websites. Yahoo Geocities go to http://geocities.yahoo.com/home/You need to sign up for Yahoo , you may get a little unwanted email but read your registration carefully and you can minimize Spam. There is a file manager in geocities that lets you upload a file. Also there is a program that lets you create a website.If the list wants more details lets discuss this or if you want more assistance I will be glad to direct you off line. There are several sites that offer these services at the cost of ads that appear on your website. About.com, angelfire (which is Lycos)etc - search the terms "free website"I wish I could build rods as well as I can operate a PC. But maybe with 15 years of rod building ( only 1 year so far) like I have with computers it will be better. I have graduated to an HTML editor which is more complex than the step by step website builders provided for free at the above sites. They are also available in freeware such as Arachnophilia. The web also has lots on instruction on HTML which is the language that lets you control a website.This is the easiest way to save band width on the list . Just direct people to documents and pictures with one line. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 21 16:39:35 2001 fALMdYH16527 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:39:35 -0600 Subject: RE: Bowling alley wax Timothy:I got mine at Home Depot. 6-7 bucks.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax i have looked all around this part of the world andchecked all my mail order sources and chased aroundthe net and i am unable to find anyone who sellsbowling alley. if anyone has any suggestions where imight purchase this i would appreciate it if you wouldpass on the info to me. timothy --- John Long wrote: It would be interesting to experiment with some sortof hot wax application to get perhaps a little morepenetration. Isn't carnuba wax just about thetoughest wax out there? john ----- Original Message -----From: Peter Van SchaackSent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:02 AM Subject: Bowling alley waxI read the threads the other week about using wax,tried it and really likethe out come.My question is, has anyone used this on a unfinished(non-varnished) blank.My thought is this, varnish adds weight and changesthe castingcharacteristics of the rod, if no varnish is added,just polish the blankoccasionally, would this provide sufficientprotection from moisture? Lightweight rods might benefit from this keeping themlighter. Reason is, I have a 6' 3wt that I liked a lotbetter test casting for guidespacing before it was varnished, now that isvarnished, it seems too slow,bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighterline, but loose too muchdistance on the casting especially with any wind atall. Anyone ever try this? Pete ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from bob@downandacross.com Wed Nov 21 17:50:17 2001 fALNoGH19599 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:50:16 - Subject: RE: Website Netscape Composer is a good cheap html editor. I believe it may be free? Ihave it on a Mac at school.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Website I have graduated to an HTML editor whichis more complex than the step by step websitebuilders provided for free at the above sites.They are also available in freeware such asArachnophilia. The web also has lots oninstruction on HTML which is the language thatlets you control a website. from darrell@vFish.net Wed Nov 21 19:16:02 2001 fAM1G1H20675 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:16:01 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:59:59 -0600 Subject: RE: Books Actually, one of Keane's book has sold for over $540+... and demand kicks in... when more people want to buy it than there are copiesavailable, the price goes up. It is a good book, but is it better than AJ Campbells? I think they are bothequally good, but for serious rod collectors, you have to have both...Campbells book, Classic & Antique Fly Fishing Tackle book is also now out ofprint and while I think there are more copies available than Keanes, Ibelieve that book will rise in value as the last few copies are found andbought. At least the book is a useful resource... How about stamp collecting withstamps selling for over a million bucks... Books unfortunately takes up alot more space... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Personally, when I look at the money that I/we spend on books, it is atravesty. I have read the Keane book several times at the library, but$250? $350? No way. It's not that good of a book. And by that I mean: Whatbook is good enough to be worth $350? It is not $350 exceptional in anyaesthetic or academic way.You could get the books by Wayne, George and Bernard, Jack Howell, Ray, andAJ Campbell and possibly still have enough money for the Sinclairrestoration book. Those are all great books for what they are priced at.Another great buy is Judith Dunham's Art of the Salmon Fly. I got mine used enjoy flipping through it.It's like professional sports tickets, they are not going to get cheaperuntil we stop paying the money for them. Unless a cheap Trout Tackle IIfalls into my hands, I will be saving my book money for a while.Rant off,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Maybe more of us will be selling our copies. from boyko@peoplepc.com Wed Nov 21 19:19:05 2001 fAM1J4H20954 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:19:04 - 0800 -0800 Subject: bamboo rod list Happy Thanksgiving to all, take care, eat well, tight lines and =drive carefully....birddog Thanksgiving = carefully....birddog from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Nov 21 19:28:32 2001 fAM1SRH21619 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:28:27 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 166i1R-0007bZ-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:47:22 -0500 Subject: Happy Thanksgiving! Happy Thanksgiving to all Listmembers! And special thanks to the creator(s) and maintainer(s) of this great =source of info and banter with kudos to those that regularly contribute. With a more careful eye out for snikes!!Ed Happy Thanksgiving to all =Listmembers! And special thanks to the creator(s) = snikes!!Ed from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Wed Nov 21 19:37:43 2001 fAM1bgH22261 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:37:42 - Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:48:21 PST Subject: Re: Classic Rod and Rodmakers "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" It's too bad a new edition can't be printed for peoplewho are interested in the content and not thecollector value. A friend gave me a signed copy a fewyears ago and it's full of great historicalinformation. Maybe a re-print would diminish thecollector value? Chris --- Robert S Williams wrote: Maybe more of us will be selling our copies. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Nov 21 19:42:37 2001 fAM1gaH22675 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:42:36 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Guys, help test my new rod site?? Guys,sorry for the bandwidth but I was wondering if you could take a fewmomentsto surf over my new site and tell me if there are any bugs or comments??It's my first attempt at web building, it's nothing too fancy but I'mreasonably happy for my first go. I'm GLAD to be done though!!There are even a few of you in the links page, don't be offended if you aren'tinthere, I just threw on the ones that jumped to mind or that had told me theywouldadd me to their links once my page was FINALLY done.( If you are there anddon't wantto be just let me know) I will add some more when I recover from building itso far;^) Please respond off list so as not to use bandwidth, TIA for the help,Shawnhttp://nsflyrods.tripod.ca/ P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to my southern neighbors! from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 21 19:57:22 2001 fAM1vLH23646 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:57:21 -0600 helo=default) id 166hWn-0004Gd-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:15:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax The first and second rods I ever made I used multiple coats of a amber basedfinish, polished them out, then waxed the rods repeatedly. I've fished thoserods is pouring rain all day, and never have noticed that either sufferedanything detrimental. M-D I read the threads the other week about using wax, tried it and really like the out come.My question is, has anyone used this on a unfinished (non- varnished) blank. My thought is this, varnish adds weight and changes the castingcharacteristics of the rod, if no varnish is added, just polish the blankoccasionally, would this provide sufficient protection from moisture? Light weight rods might benefit from this keeping them lighter. Reason is, I have a 6' 3wt that I liked a lot better test casting for guide spacing before it was varnished, now that is varnished, it seems too slow,bends deep, almost to the grip, tried a lighter line, but loose too muchdistance on the casting especially with any wind at all. Anyone ever try this? Pete from waynok@netscape.net Wed Nov 21 20:49:27 2001 fAM2nRH25993 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:49:27 - for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:49:17 - 1121214917; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:49:17 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: (no subject) test from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 21 22:17:27 2001 fAM4HLH28055 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:17:21 - Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Well I'm glad to read there's a time all you puritans act properly for a change [:-)] Happy Thanksgiving Tony At 04:39 PM 11/21/01 -0500, John Long wrote: Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list!To our list members down under and the many other countries, this iswhere us Yanks drink wine, pig out on a lot of fowl, thank the bamboo gods, then lay around like beached whales to recover and then eat turkey sandwiches every day for the next week. Starving myself until tomorrow, John /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Wed Nov 21 23:09:49 2001 fAM59nH29329 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:09:49 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Hell, Tony, You've seen me at one gathering... my little cooler on wheelsfull of dark beer, a minimum of 2 trips through the food lines, don'texactly pray to the Bamboo Gods, though... it may have looked that way, butI was just trying to rub those damn splinters out of the palms of my hands!And as for laying around like beached whales, last time I went swimming Ikicked out on the beach for a few minutes and three little kids startedtrying to roll me towards the water screaming "Get 'im back in before hedies!!!" Some a$$ in the background yelling "Free Willie!"I thought we were supposed to act like this year 'round! *S* later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Well I'm glad to read there's a time all you puritans act properly for achange [:-)] Happy Thanksgiving Tony At 04:39 PM 11/21/01 -0500, John Long wrote: Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list!To our list members down under and the many other countries, this is where us Yanks drink wine, pig out on a lot of fowl, thank the bamboo gods, then lay around like beached whales to recover and then eat turkey sandwichesevery day for the next week. Starving myself until tomorrow, John /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 21 23:26:59 2001 fAM5QvH29800 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:26:57 - "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Thanksgiving Keep up the good work!! Tony At 11:09 PM 11/21/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Hell, Tony, You've seen me at one gathering... my little cooler on wheelsfull of dark beer, a minimum of 2 trips through the food lines, don'texactly pray to the Bamboo Gods, though... it may have looked that way,butI was just trying to rub those damn splinters out of the palms of my hands!And as for laying around like beached whales, last time I went swimming Ikicked out on the beach for a few minutes and three little kids startedtrying to roll me towards the water screaming "Get 'im back in before hedies!!!" Some a$$ in the background yelling "Free Willie!"I thought we were supposed to act like this year 'round! *S* later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Thanksgiving Well I'm glad to read there's a time all you puritans act properly for achange [:-)] Happy Thanksgiving Tony At 04:39 PM 11/21/01 -0500, John Long wrote: Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list!To our list members down under and the many other countries, this is where us Yanks drink wine, pig out on a lot of fowl, thank the bamboo gods, then lay around like beached whales to recover and then eat turkeysandwichesevery day for the next week. Starving myself until tomorrow, John /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 21 23:46:53 2001 fAM5kqH00177 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:46:52 - (authenticated) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:46:23 -0800 Subject: Simple solution to frustrating problem Guys, The last couple of rods I've made have nearlydriven me crazy trying to keep my trianglesequilateral during final planing. I'd start thefinal planing process with perfect triangles, andafter I made half a dozen plane passes, the stripwas out by .010" - .020". The more I planed, theworse it got. I was spending far more timecorrecting bad angles than planing. I'd correctthe angles, make a few more passes with the plane,and be off the mark again. An average strip wastaking me about an hour, even though the roughedstrips were only .025" oversized at the big end.And that's way, way too long. The problem was badenough that I didn't want to go out in the shopand deal with the frustration. I actually layawake one night thinking about ways to solve thispuzzling dilemma. I diagnosed potential problems over and overagain. I spent a few hours completely resurfacingmy forms. I straightened and re-straigthened thestrips. I checked and double checked the angle ofthe plane iron to the adjustable foot of theplane. I put a mirror at the end of my forms so Icould watch the travel of the plane. I raised theforms higher. I moved them lower. The problem wasstill there. One of the huge advantages of using carbidetipped blades is I only sharpen about every thirdor fourth rod. (Yes rod, not strip) Tonight Inoticed a little dragging, so decided to spend aminute touching up the edge on my main plane, theone that does about 95% of my work. While I hadthe blade out, I noticed a bunch of shavings anddust under the foot of the plane. Blew it outwith compressed air, but still saw some dust. SoI removed the foot to clean thoroughlyunderneath. Lo and behold, there was a bunch ofcrud in the little slot in the casting that holdsthe foot of the plane. You guessed it. That crud caused the foot toride higher on the left side than the right.Finished that strip in minutes, and the angleproblems are gone. Hallelujah, I do havesomething to be thankful for this year atThanksgiving! Man, am I glad to have that problembehind me. Maybe making rods can be enjoyableagain. If there's a moral to this story, it's tocheck the simple things first. Harry-- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 22 00:28:52 2001 fAM6SpH00932 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:28:51 - ([209.178.134.31] helo=g2t8c9) id 166nLt-0001Ro-00; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:28:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Harry, It is always in the last place you look, isnt it? Adam ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Simple solution to frustrating problem Guys, The last couple of rods I've made have nearlydriven me crazy trying to keep my trianglesequilateral during final planing. I'd start thefinal planing process with perfect triangles, andafter I made half a dozen plane passes, the stripwas out by .010" - .020". The more I planed, theworse it got. I was spending far more timecorrecting bad angles than planing. I'd correctthe angles, make a few more passes with the plane,and be off the mark again. An average strip wastaking me about an hour, even though the roughedstrips were only .025" oversized at the big end.And that's way, way too long. The problem was badenough that I didn't want to go out in the shopand deal with the frustration. I actually layawake one night thinking about ways to solve thispuzzling dilemma. I diagnosed potential problems over and overagain. I spent a few hours completely resurfacingmy forms. I straightened and re-straigthened thestrips. I checked and double checked the angle ofthe plane iron to the adjustable foot of theplane. I put a mirror at the end of my forms so Icould watch the travel of the plane. I raised theforms higher. I moved them lower. The problem wasstill there. One of the huge advantages of using carbidetipped blades is I only sharpen about every thirdor fourth rod. (Yes rod, not strip) Tonight Inoticed a little dragging, so decided to spend aminute touching up the edge on my main plane, theone that does about 95% of my work. While I hadthe blade out, I noticed a bunch of shavings anddust under the foot of the plane. Blew it outwith compressed air, but still saw some dust. SoI removed the foot to clean thoroughlyunderneath. Lo and behold, there was a bunch ofcrud in the little slot in the casting that holdsthe foot of the plane. You guessed it. That crud caused the foot toride higher on the left side than the right.Finished that strip in minutes, and the angleproblems are gone. Hallelujah, I do havesomething to be thankful for this year atThanksgiving! Man, am I glad to have that problembehind me. Maybe making rods can be enjoyableagain. If there's a moral to this story, it's tocheck the simple things first. Harry-- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Nov 22 01:46:37 2001 fAM7kaH01880 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:46:36 - for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:46:20 - Subject: Speaking about planes...... Catching up on my email after a long session at the planing bench - working on another modification of the 8ft 6ft convertible rod - I find I have started to use the bench plane for just about everything except a final few passes with the Record block plane. I have gotten so used to the way the bench plane cuts, and can get so precise with it, I can get the strips down to very close to the final size using the bench plane only. So far I have had no lifts or chips with the bench plane - I don't know if it's a function of the plane, or I have just been lucky. I tend to lean towards it's the plane, because my Record plane has chipped a node where the bench plane hadn't. I visited an upscale woodworking store last weekend looking for what was available in bench planes. The No.4 size is quite common, and will do for bamboo work, but is just a little bit long and heavy at 10 inches long and 2 1/4 inches wide, and weighs around 4 to 5 pounds. The next size down, aNo.3 is still being made by Stanley, but stores don't commonly carry them. The next size down, No.2, isn't being made any more except by one place I saw on the web - Lie-Nielsen, but it's a whopping $235. I think a 2 would be ideal hands. A 4 would do the job, but would give you a workout in the process.I have a 4 and a 3. I find the 4 is great for whacking off great gobs of bamboo when I first start roughing the strip, and the 3 is good for getting close to final size. Knowing what I know now, and if I needed to conserve money buying planes, I would get a 3 bench plane, a Record 9 1/2 and a Lie-Nielsen 212 scraper. That's all I commonly use to plane strips now.Darryl Hayashida Catching up on my email after a long session at the planing bench -working on another modification of the 8ft 6ft convertible rod - I find I havestarted to use the bench plane for just about everything except a final fewpasses with the Record block plane. I have gotten so used to the way thebench plane cuts, and can get so precise with it, I can get the strips down tovery close to the final size using the bench plane only. So far I have had nolifts or chips with the bench plane - I don't know if it's a function of theplane, or I have just been lucky. I tend to lean towards it's the plane, becausemy Record plane has chipped a node where the bench plane hadn't. I visited an upscale woodworking store last weekend looking for what wasavailable in bench planes. The No.4 size is quite common, and will do forbamboo work, but is just a little bit long and heavy at 10 inches long and 21/4 inches wide, and weighs around 4 to 5 pounds. The next size down, aNo.3 is still being made by Stanley, but stores don't commonly carry them.The next size down, No.2, isn't being made any more except by one place Isaw on the web - Lie-Nielsen, but it's a whopping $235. I think a 2 would be bigger hands. A 4 would do the job, but would give you a workout in theprocess.I have a 4 and a 3. I find the 4 is great for whacking off great gobs ofbamboo when I first start roughing the strip, and the 3 is good for gettingclose to final size. Knowing what I know now, and if I needed to conservemoney buying planes, I would get a 3 bench plane, a Record 9 1/2 and a Lie-Nielsen 212 scraper. That's all I commonly use to plane strips now.Darryl Hayashida from mschaffer@mindspring.com Thu Nov 22 03:01:14 2001 fAM91DH02583 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 03:01:13 - helo=computer) id 166hD2-0003dJ-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:55:16 -0500 Subject: Clamps for nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips =(called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of =your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering =what you guys who do think.Mike Guys,I was just wondering if you think that = large paper clips (called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure = joints of your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just = what you guys who do think.Mike from anglport@con2.com Thu Nov 22 06:00:10 2001 fAMC08H04062 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:00:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax and a thought All,Someone with more experience than I can add to or correct what I read,but I DID read somewhere (in a furniture restoration catalog or book Ithink) that if done correctly, there should never be more than one coat ofwax on a piece. The idea of an application is to rework the undercoat and/orremove it with the new! The conclusion was that it's pointless to waxseveral times in a row as, if you're doing it right, you wind up with thesame thickness film as you had after the first app.Anybody care to confirm or deny?Art M-D,sorry for the triple, I didn't realize I replied to only you the first time.Art from anglport@con2.com Thu Nov 22 06:02:41 2001 fAMC2fH04231 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:02:41 - Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem No, Harry , I think the moral is: Read everything on the list since sooneror later all this crud is going to happen to you, and it may help to havethe other guy's experience rattling around in your head when it does!Happy Thanksgiving!Art from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Thu Nov 22 06:21:58 2001 fAMCLwH04615 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:21:58 - Thu, 22 Nov 2001 04:21:52 -0800 Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:21:52 GMT Subject: Re: Simple Solution... FILETIME=[447F83F0:01C17350] Harry,I was told long ago by a wise man that in this country when we hear hooves pounding the ground, they are probably horses and not zebras.Happy Thanksgiving Everyone,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thu Nov 22 06:36:19 2001 fAMCaIH04879 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:36:18 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:35:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless Mike: I personally don't think you will get enough pressure with the "bulldog =clips". I recommend the "1 inch clamps". Joe Subject: Clamps for nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips =(called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of =your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering =what you guys who do think.Mike Mike: I personally don't think you will get enough = Joe other....."What a Great Life". ----- Original Message ----- shaffer Sent: Wednesday, November 21, = PMSubject: Clamps for =nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think = large paper clips (called Bulldog clips) would work for holding = the joints of your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was = wondering what you guys who do think.Mike from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thu Nov 22 06:40:45 2001 fAMCejH05117 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:40:45 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:40:07 -0500 Subject: Happy Thanksgiving Hello friends and comrades: Rose and I just wanted to wish each of you a very happy Thanksgiving. =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one hand and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from bob@downandacross.com Thu Nov 22 06:50:35 2001 fAMCoZH05360 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:50:35 - Subject: RE: Happy Thanksgiving Thanks Joe:Same to you and Rose.How did the motor I sent you look?Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Happy Thanksgiving Hello friends and comrades: Rose and I just wanted to wish each of you a very happy Thanksgiving. =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one hand and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 22 06:57:57 2001 fAMCvoH05647 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:57:51 - Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless Wrap the scarves with thread then when it's time to plane don't unwrap them, just plane away. Tony At 07:34 AM 11/22/01 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: Mike: I personally don't think you will get enough pressure with the "bulldog clips". I recommend the "1 inch clamps". Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message -----From: mike shaffer Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:55 PMSubject: Clamps for nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips (called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering what you guys who do think.Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thu Nov 22 07:41:55 2001 fAMDfsH06204 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:41:54 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:41:15 -0500 Subject: Reames 8 ft taper There has been some mention on the list of an 8 ft rod made by Jim Reamesthat is supposedely a great rod. Does anyone have a taper for this? Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 22 08:12:38 2001 fAMECcH06593 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:12:38 -0600 helo=default) id 166uaf-0006vZ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:12:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax and a thought Well, I wondered. I just figured you'd tied-one-on early for Thanksgiving,Art. ;o) What you're saying here makes sense, as it seems to me that thesubsequentapplications of wax would serve to soften previous applications, making oneamalgamation. M-D All,Someone with more experience than I can add to or correct what I read,but I DID read somewhere (in a furniture restoration catalog or book Ithink) that if done correctly, there should never be more than one coat ofwax on a piece. The idea of an application is to rework the undercoat and/or remove it with the new! The conclusion was that it's pointless to waxseveral times in a row as, if you're doing it right, you wind up with thesame thickness film as you had after the first app.Anybody care to confirm or deny?Art M-D,sorry for the triple, I didn't realize I replied to only you the first time. Art from utzerath@execpc.com Thu Nov 22 08:13:39 2001 fAMEDcH06707 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:13:38 - fAMEDcU27355; fAMEDaD24936; Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless Mike,A lot depends on how slippery your adhesive is. I use URAC; and I think =that Pony.- brand 1" clamps are needed at the center because the Pony's =pads pivot and the tension can be adjusted; also the excess adhesive =comes off the pads easily. You can probably get by with cheaper clamps =on the ends.Jim U. Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips =(called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of =your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering =what you guys who do think.Mike Mike,A lot depends on how slippery your adhesive = cheaper clamps on the ends.Jim U .Guys,I was just wondering if you think = large paper clips (called Bulldog clips) would work for holding = the joints of your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was = wondering what you guys who do think.Mike from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 22 08:20:07 2001 fAMEK6H06993 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:20:06 -0600 helo=default) id 166uhx-0004V6-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:20:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless What if one, or two of those large binder clips were used? Those might betoo strong, mightn't they? You could always give them the finger test toascertain relative clamping strength- your fingers, not mine. M-D Mike: I personally don't think you will get enough pressure with the "bulldogclips". I recommend the "1 inch clamps". Joe Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips (calledBulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of yournodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering what youguys who do think.Mike from homes-sold@home.com Thu Nov 22 08:20:33 2001 fAMEKWH07083 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:20:32 - femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:20:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless I'm in the process of making two nodeless rods at the moment and wanted = Cut a 60=B0 groove in 1x1 full length deeper than the strips. Cut pieces =to length to span scarf. Lay a piece of saran wrap over the groove. =Align the strips, I'm using Titebond ll, in the groove. Fold the saran =over the top. Place a piece of key stock, same length as "V blocks" over =the top & clamp over night. The clamp forces key stock and strips down = Yes, I scraped the enamel off before cutting the compound scarf with a =flush cutting router bit.Don Subject: Clamps for nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips =(called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of =your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering =what you guys who do think.Mike I'm in the process of making two = the moment and wanted to try something different to clamp the scarves. groove in 1x1 full length deeper than the strips. Cut pieces to length = scarf. Lay a piece of saran wrap over the groove. Align the strips, I'm = Titebond ll, in the groove. Fold the saran over the top. Place a piece = = The clamp forces key stock and strips down in the grove, holds and = everything. it seems to work and no glue lines. the enamel off before cutting the compound scarf with a flush cutting = bit.Don From: shaffer Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:55 PMSubject: Clamps for nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think that = large paper clips (called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure = joints of your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just = what you guys who do think.Mike from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 22 08:21:14 2001 fAMEL8H07248 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:21:13 -0600 helo=default) id 166uix-00071R-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:21:08 -0500 Subject: Speaking about planes...... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Speaking about planes...... Catching up on my email after a long session at the planing bench - workingon another modification of the 8ft 6ft convertible rod - I find I havestarted to use the bench plane for just about everything except a final fewpasses with the Record block plane. I have gotten so used to the way thebench plane cuts, and can get so precise with it, I can get the strips downto very close to the final size using the bench plane only. So far I havehad no lifts or chips with the bench plane - I don't know if it's a functionof the plane, or I have just been lucky. I tend to lean towards it's theplane, because my Record plane has chipped a node where the bench planehadn't. I visited an upscale woodworking store last weekend looking for what wasavailable in bench planes. The No.4 size is quite common, and will do forbamboo work, but is just a little bit long and heavy at 10 inches long and 21/4 inches wide, and weighs around 4 to 5 pounds. The next size down, aNo.3is still being made by Stanley, but stores don't commonly carry them. Thenext size down, No.2, isn't being made any more except by one place I saw onthe web - Lie-Nielsen, but it's a whopping $235. I think a 2 would be ideal hands. A 4 would do the job, but would give you a workout in the process.I have a 4 and a 3. I find the 4 is great for whacking off great gobs ofbamboo when I first start roughing the strip, and the 3 is good for gettingclose to final size. Knowing what I know now, and if I needed to conservemoney buying planes, I would get a 3 bench plane, a Record 9 1/2 and aLie-Nielsen 212 scraper. That's all I commonly use to plane strips now.Darryl Hayashida from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 22 08:28:11 2001 fAMESBH07642 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:28:11 -0600 helo=default) id 166upm-0001Jc-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:28:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless I wonder which type of thread (cotton, polyester, nylon) would be best forthis, and what size would be preferred (16/4, or smaller)? Wrap the scarves with thread then when it's time to plane don't unwrapthem, just plane away. Tony from JNL123141@msn.com Thu Nov 22 08:53:26 2001 fAMErQH08783 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:53:26 - Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:53:17 -0800 ,"RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem FILETIME=[6B5FDBE0:01C17365] Harry,What a great story! While reading it I was sure you had some strips that=were rounded on the enamel side and they were rolling on you. That stor= ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Harry, It is always in the last place you look, isnt it? Adam ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Simple solution to frustrating problem Guys, The last couple of rods I've made have nearlydriven me crazy trying to keep my trianglesequilateral during final planing. I'd start thefinal planing process with perfect triangles, andafter I made half a dozen plane passes, the stripwas out by .010" - .020". The more I planed, theworse it got. I was spending far more timecorrecting bad angles than planing. I'd correctthe angles, make a few more passes with the plane,and be off the mark again. An average strip wastaking me about an hour, even though the roughedstrips were only .025" oversized at the big end.And that's way, way too long. The problem was badenough that I didn't want to go out in the shopand deal with the frustration. I actually layawake one night thinking about ways to solve thispuzzling dilemma. I diagnosed potential problems over and overagain. I spent a few hours completely resurfacingmy forms. I straightened and re-straigthened thestrips. I checked and double checked the angle ofthe plane iron to the adjustable foot of theplane. I put a mirror at the end of my forms so Icould watch the travel of the plane. I raised theforms higher. I moved them lower. The problem wasstill there. One of the huge advantages of using carbidetipped blades is I only sharpen about every thirdor fourth rod. (Yes rod, not strip) Tonight Inoticed a little dragging, so decided to spend aminute touching up the edge on my main plane, theone that does about 95% of my work. While I hadthe blade out, I noticed a bunch of shavings anddust under the foot of the plane. Blew it outwith compressed air, but still saw some dust. SoI removed the foot to clean thoroughlyunderneath. Lo and behold, there was a bunch ofcrud in the little slot in the casting that holdsthe foot of the plane. You guessed it. That crud caused the foot toride higher on the left side than the right.Finished that strip in minutes, and the angleproblems are gone. Hallelujah, I do havesomething to be thankful for this year atThanksgiving! Man, am I glad to have that problembehind me. Maybe making rods can be enjoyableagain. If there's a moral to this story, it's tocheck the simple things first. Harry-- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- rips that were rounded on the enamel side and they were rolling on you.&n= pla=ce you look, isnt it?Adam----- Original Message -----= <rodm= made= = mark= forms. = advantages = work= w= some= c= If= http://www= from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Nov 22 09:00:49 2001 fAMF0mH09026 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:00:48 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? Obviously I've never figured out how people use a clamp to hold the strip.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Nov 22 09:05:41 2001 fAMF5eH09220 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:05:40 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax and a thought M-D, You will have wax buildup around guide feet but some flossing with asoft cloth takes care of this. The coat will get thicker if you don't buff enough, as well. Just some experiences I've had with Butcher's. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jojo DeLancier wrote: Well, I wondered. I just figured you'd tied-one-on early for Thanksgiving,Art. ;o) What you're saying here makes sense, as it seems to me that thesubsequentapplications of wax would serve to soften previous applications, making oneamalgamation. M-D from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Nov 22 09:12:28 2001 fAMFCRH09495 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:12:27 - (authenticated) Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:12:02 -0800 RodmakersPost Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem John, Good question. So far I haven't doneanything. I wonder if there is a way to put sometape or something over the opening between thebody of the plane and the foot? You know thelittle gap I'm talking about. Any creativesolutions out there? Harry John Long wrote: Did you do anything to prevent future build-upof crud? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 22 09:13:18 2001 fAMFDIH09598 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:13:18 - ([209.178.134.129] helo=g2t8c9) id 166vXL-00025F-00; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:13:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless Mike, I use both the bulldog clips and the pony clamps. The bull dog clips =work just fine if you use them correctly. The 1.25" clips are the ones =to get. Depending on the angle of your scarf you can put 2 clips on and =then place 1 on top. If you need more clamping pressure put 2 on top. =Even with four clips this is not to much pressure. Pony clamps are super =strong and 3 of them are needed for a splice. Believe me there are a lot =of guys using the bull dog clips. For $4-8 you will have enough clips to = Check all the bulldog clips for strength some do not make the grade. =Take a scrap piece of cane and clamp a bulldog onto it. Test the =clamping power by pulling the cane out of the clip. If it pulls out =easily give away those clips which are not strong enough and keep only =those that are. A strong clip will not release the cane with a smooth =pull. A strong clip will apply enough pressure as to cause a hesitation =when trying to pull the cane free. Now I am not talking from theory or conjecture I build nodeless rods and =use both types of clamps. You just need to know that spending $1/clamp x = clamps Bulldog clamps will run about $2/25 clamps get 3 boxes and it will set =you back $6. If you question the clamping power of the clamp just stick =your finger in it and see how long you last. Some do not like the =bulldogs and I think in part it is because they did not test each clamp = Because many of use do use them without trouble. Just a piece of advice on building nodeless. To get an even distribution =of clamping power plane off and square up the edges where the clamps =will be placed. This will give you a good even surface to clamp onto. =Place 2 clamps on the bottom and on on top in the middle over the other =clamps. Now working with the light bulldogs are easier also. When =lifting the strip with Pony clamps it can get awkard when glueing up 3 =splice in a strip because of the wieght. They both work so you choose. I am sure though you probably could spend =$150+ on something better then clamps. Adam Vigil P.S. keep the enamel flush and you will be happy! Subject: Clamps for nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips =(called Bulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of =your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering =what you guys who do think.Mike Mike, I use both the bulldog clips and the = The bull dog clips work just fine if you use them correctly. The 1.25" = the ones to get. Depending on the angle of your scarf you can put 2 = then place 1 on top. If you need more clamping pressure put 2 on top. = four clips this is not to much pressure. Pony clamps are super strong = them are needed for a splice. Believe me there are a lot of guys using = dog clips. For $4-8 you will have enough clips to do all of your strips = Check all the bulldog clips for = not make the grade. Take a scrap piece of cane and clamp a bulldog onto = the clamping power by pulling the cane out of the clip. If it pulls out = give away those clips which are not strong enough and keep only those = A strong clip will not release the cane with a smooth pull. A strong = apply enough pressure as to cause a hesitation when trying to pull the = free. Now I am not talking from theory or = build nodeless rods and use both types of clamps. You just need to know = = Bulldog clamps will run about $2/25 = boxes and it will set you back $6. If you question the clamping power of = clamp just stick your finger in it and see how long you last. Some do = the bulldogs and I think in part it is because they did not test each = pressure or simply because they already invested their $ in Pony. = of use do use them without trouble. Just a piece of advice on building = an even distribution of clamping power plane off and square up the edges = the clamps will be placed. This will give you a good even surface to = Place 2 clamps on the bottom and on on top in the middle over the other = Now working with the light bulldogs are easier also. When lifting the = because of the wieght. They both work so you choose. I amsure = probably could spend $150+ on something better thenclamps. Adam Vigil P.S. keep the enamel flush and you will= happy! ----- Original Message ----- shaffer Sent: Wednesday, November 21, = PMSubject: Clamps for =nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think = large paper clips (called Bulldog clips) would work for holding = the joints of your nodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was = wondering what you guys who do think.Mike from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 22 09:17:06 2001 fAMFH5H09845 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:17:05 - ([209.178.134.129] helo=g2t8c9) id 166val-0004Gs-00; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:16:44 -0800 "Bamboo Flyrod List" Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Joe, I know Jim Reams, great rodmaker. He does develop his own tapers. I do nothave it and I do not think it is available. Just keep in mind if you do getJims taper that there is more going on there then meets the eye. He buildshollow rods and does it all the way into the tip. The dimension of wallthickness is only known to Jim. So even if the taper is available it wouldbe like building a rod with an EC Powell taper only to find out it castnothing like the original rod. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Reames 8 ft taper There has been some mention on the list of an 8 ft rod made by JimReamesthat is supposedely a great rod. Does anyone have a taper for this? Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from rkrees@mcn.net Thu Nov 22 09:23:14 2001 fAMFNDH10102 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:23:13 - HAA02067; "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Harry I have had this problem and I now fill the gap with wax it seems tohelp so far,Ron from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 22 09:30:13 2001 fAMFUCH10385 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:30:12 - ([209.178.134.129] helo=g2t8c9) id 166vnm-00050v-00; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:30:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless I made that mistake once and only once, On my first rod I was handling the strip and "POP" I caught the tip on =something and he scarf joint let go. Crap! so far along and I did not =want to start a new section. So I place the section much as you explain =below but I used the actual planing form. Glued it clamped it and when =it was dry. It looked fantastic! I finished the rod and fished it =catching a good number of trout. Well as I was drying off the rod I felt =a little bump in the rod. Upon examination low and behold the splice =that I had repair had now come lose and the only thing holding the =splice together was the Epon from the surrounding splines. The little =splice when flexed would stick out its little corner just a hair. I then =put a clear wrap over it and it is fine. But the lesson I learned is I =should not have clamp the splice from above, I should have turned it on =its side and clamp it from the side. Pressure downward upon the splice will not provide the clamping pressure =as it does from the side. So I recommend if you are clamping from the =top of the splice, from the side may be better in the long run. Adam Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless I'm in the process of making two nodeless rods at the moment and = Cut a 60=B0 groove in 1x1 full length deeper than the strips. Cut =pieces to length to span scarf. Lay a piece of saran wrap over the =groove. Align the strips, I'm using Titebond ll, in the groove. Fold the =saran over the top. Place a piece of key stock, same length as "V =blocks" over the top & clamp over night. The clamp forces key stock and = Yes, I scraped the enamel off before cutting the compound scarf with a =flush cutting router bit.DonI once, "POP" I caught the tip on something and he scarf joint let go. Crap! so = much as you explain below but I used the actual planing form. Glued it = it and when it was dry. It looked fantastic! I finished the rod and = catching a good number of trout. Well as I was drying off the rod I felt = little bump in the rod. Upon examination low and behold the splice that = repair had now come lose and the only thing holding the splice together = Epon from the surrounding splines. The little splice when flexed would = its little corner just a hair. I then put a clear wrap over it and it is = But the lesson I learned is I should not have clamp the splice from = should have turned it on its side and clamp it from the =side. Pressure downward upon the splice will= the clamping pressure as it does from the side. So I recommend if you = clamping from the top of the splice, from the side may be better in the = run. Adam ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Thursday, November 22, = AMSubject: Re: Clamps for =nodeless I'm in the process of making two = the moment and wanted to try something different to clamp the scarves. groove in 1x1 full length deeper than the strips. Cut pieces to length = scarf. Lay a piece of saran wrap over the groove. Align the strips, = Titebond ll, in the groove. Fold the saran over the top. Place a piece = night. The clamp forces key stock and strips down in the grove, holds = aligns everything. strips it seems to work and no glue lines. scraped the enamel off before cutting the compound scarf with a flush = router bit.DonI from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 22 09:36:04 2001 fAMFZxH10631 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:36:03 - ([209.178.134.129] helo=g2t8c9) id 166vtN-0001CL-00; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:35:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... Frank, Chuck Irvine uses a Toggle clamp to hold his strips. He mounts it on a boardnext to his form. Looks like he allow several inches more to allow for theplane length. Planes the beginning of the strip toggles the clamp down andthen continues down the strip. I think he did a article on it in a planingform. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? Obviously I've never figured out how people use a clamp to hold thestrip.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 22 09:45:39 2001 fAMFjYH10986 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:45:34 - Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Harry, An interesting and informative episode. However, I think thatthe real moral is that you devoted your energy to correcting the problemall by yourself. Right on my friend, Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 22 09:52:18 2001 fAMFqHH11267 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:52:17 - 0000 RodmakersPost Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Jist one Harry. Clean it dailyRalph from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 22 09:54:40 2001 fAMFsdH11522 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:54:39 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:19:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem I already emailed Harry about this, but the most simple solution to thingslike this is easy and takes very little time. Every time you finish a rod,take an hour or so of time, disassemble and clean all your planes, scrapers,sanding blocks, spread your forms and blow the dust from the gap...Generally, just clean everything very well. I think when you take yourplanes apart, you'll be surprised how many places there are that littleslivers of bamboo and bamboo dust can find their way into. Most of that isgoing to stay hidden only to cause problems like Harry had... some of itwill find it's way out and into the groove on your forms, into the stripswhen you're ready to glue up (glue line city) and everyplace else you don'twant it to be. Every time I get a blank finished, clean all my tools andput them in my little red box, I blow off the bench, clean up everything asbest I can and sweep the floor. Keep everything as neat and clean as isfeasable and you'll find making these little sticks a lot more pleasurableand trouble free. Everyone who celebrates this American Holiday, Have a Happy Thanksgiving,To those who don't, have a great day. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem John, Good question. So far I haven't doneanything. I wonder if there is a way to put sometape or something over the opening between thebody of the plane and the foot? You know thelittle gap I'm talking about. Any creativesolutions out there? Harry John Long wrote: Did you do anything to prevent future build-upof crud? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Thu Nov 22 09:54:47 2001 fAMFskH11533 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:54:46 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... There is absolutely no reason not to use the benchplane It has been my experience the lifting a node with thebenchplane is a very rare thing. Don=B4t know why, it isjust so. And yes, I do use a block plane: for "whackingoff great gobs" of cane. regards, carsten jorgensen There is absolutely no reason not to = benchplane It has been my experience the lifting = the why, it isjust so. And yes, I do use a block = "whackingoff great gobs" ofcane. regards, jorgensen from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Thu Nov 22 10:01:08 2001 fAMG17H11954 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:01:07 - Subject: Toggle clamp fAMG18H11955 I hae a "device": a toggle clamp on a board, on whichthe planingform is placed. Works great and You haveboth hands free to work with. No matter what kind of plane you use, it is very mucheasier to plane when not having to hold the stripin the form. Try for Your self. regards, carsten jorgensen from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 22 10:02:04 2001 fAMG23H12064 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:02:03 - 0000 Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... Gosh Carsten, i use the bench plane for hacking off great gobs ofbamboo. about two passes and I have done what twenty passes with ablock plane will do. But then i have not tried it for real fine work.Frankly, I get chicken.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Nov 22 10:37:30 2001 fAMGbUH12891 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:37:30 - fAMGbG819027 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:37:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... Frank,I really thought this would be a problem. When I had my hand surgery inJuly I found it can be done real easy. Planed out 42 strips using thespring clamp with one arm in a sling. Still using the spring clamp.The strips were only about 2" longer than the finished length.The strip is placed in the form, the spring clamp is clamped to the strip,form and bench. That holds the whole assembly together.Make a few passes the length of the strip in front of the clamp.Squeeze and slide the clamp up to where you started planing and plane afew strokes where the clamp was. Squeeze the clamp open and slide it offthe strip leaving the clamp on the form. Flip the strip and repeat. Allthis is done with one hand.It was so much easier to do it this way than holding the strip andplaning.I continue doing my rods like this even now that I can use my other hand.Also found it was a lot easier on my shoulders and arms. I now use bothhands to guide the plane. Sounds like a hassle but it just becomes rhythm. When the strip gets to where it is flush with the form, it will tend toslip out from under the clamp. A small square of inner tube rubber betweenthe clamp and strip will hold to in place.Give it a try, You may not go back to the old way.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Frank Stetzer wrote: I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? Obviously I've never figured out how people use a clamp to hold thestrip.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Nov 22 10:44:02 2001 fAMGi2H13160 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:44:02 -0600 fAMGhv819873 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:43:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Bowling alley wax and a thought A stiff toothbrush for removing the wax or polish from around the guidesworks realwell.Never though of flossing.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Reed Curry wrote: M-D,You will have wax buildup around guide feet but some flossing with a softcloth takes care of this. The coat will get thicker if you don't buffenough, as well. Just some experiences I've had with Butcher's.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jojo DeLancier wrote: Well, I wondered. I just figured you'd tied-one-on early for Thanksgiving,Art. ;o) What you're saying here makes sense, as it seems to me that thesubsequentapplications of wax would serve to soften previous applications, makingoneamalgamation. M-D from homes-sold@home.com Thu Nov 22 11:12:08 2001 fAMHC7H13603 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:12:08 - femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:12:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless Adam, First: I only wanted to heat treat once and that being prior to any =gluing. The specs on Titebond ll suggest it will loose bonding strength =with heat: 3,750 psi @ room temperature, 1,750 psi @ 150=B0 over night. =Plus the flash point in 200=B0. Second: Specs for clamping pressure is 175-225 psi for hardwoods, =125- 175 psi for medium woods and 100-150 psi for soft woods. My conclusion:First: Rough the strips to 60=B0, bind and heat treat.Second: Splice the strips.Third: Don't know any other way to approach the clamping press required =unless the strip is fully in cased and then forced into the wedge. I think your suggestion of turning the strips, one flat if you will, =will give more clamping pressure to the joint. I'll give it a try. If it =doesn't work, oh well, another tomato stake :>)Don Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless I made that mistake once and only once, On my first rod I was handling the strip and "POP" I caught the tip on =something and he scarf joint let go. Crap! so far along and I did not =want to start a new section. So I place the section much as you explain =below but I used the actual planing form Adam,The reason I got into this method of = two fold. First: I only wanted to heat treat once= being prior to any gluing. The specs on Titebond ll suggest it will = bonding strength with heat: 3,750 psi @ room temperature, 1,750 psi @ = night. Plus the flash point in 200=B0. Second: Specs for clamping pressure is= woods. My conclusion:First: Rough the strips to 60=B0, bind = treat.Second: Splice thestrips.Third: Don't know any other way to = clamping press required unless the strip is fully in cased and then = the wedge. I think your suggestion of turning the = it a try. If it doesn't work, oh well, another tomato stake = Don----- Original Message ----- From:Adam= mschaffer@mindspring.com ; =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 7:34 AMSubject: Re: Clamps for nodeless once, "POP" I caught the tip on something and he scarf joint let go. Crap! so = form from bamboorods@saber.net Thu Nov 22 11:25:11 2001 fAMHPAH13908 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:25:10 - for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:24:54 - Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper I am a friend of Jimmy's. He has told me a number of times that he does notwant people (in general) using his tapers without his specific permission.If you would like Jim Reams phone number, email me and I will supply. He isa most generous person, and may offer it up to you. His tapers, ifobtained, should be obtained on an individual basis, and not submitted tothe list for public scrutiny.Regards,Chris-----Original Message----- Subject: Reames 8 ft taper There has been some mention on the list of an 8 ft rod made by JimReamesthat is supposedely a great rod. Does anyone have a taper for this? Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Nov 22 12:26:32 2001 fAMIQVH14909 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:26:31 - for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:26:23 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... This is one of the one reasons the smaller bench planes are better. Obviously there is a few inches where you can't plane right next to the clamp. But, the trade off between being able to use the plane two handed and being able to go down the entire strip in one pass is far better than a few inches waste each strip.Darryl Hayashida I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? Obviously I've never figured out how people use a clamp to hold thestrip.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. This is one of the one reasons the smaller bench planes are better. Obviously there is a few inches where you can't plane right next to theclamp. But, the trade off between being able to use the plane two handed andbeing able to go down the entire strip in one pass is far better than a fewinches waste each strip.Darryl Hayashida to follow up on Darryl's post. happens "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from homes-sold@home.com Thu Nov 22 12:40:38 2001 fAMIebH15241 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:40:37 - femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Grooving Bench Planes Wondering what the list thought of grooving bench planes for our work. =Say a No. 2, .002, .003, more or none?Don Wondering what the list thought of = planes for our work. Say a No. 2, .002, .003, more or none?Don from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Nov 22 13:03:32 2001 fAMJ3VH15851 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:03:31 - for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:03:29 -0500 Subject: Happy thanksgiving :)) Happy thanksgiving to the list from :Tony, Tammy & Cindy Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Happy thanksgiving to the list from :Tony, Tammy & Cindy Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Nov 22 13:05:22 2001 fAMJ5LH15997 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:05:21 - for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:05:13 - Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes Thinking about it logically, what is a groove for? To keep the sides of the blade from nicking your forms, and still allowing you to plane the strip. With a bench plane do you want to plane only .002 to .003 at a pass? Usually not. In roughing you want to take as much off each pass as you can without lifts or chips. I have grooved my No.4 to .010 - whacking off great gobs of bamboo at each pass - and the No.3 at .005 - more controlled whacking. If you own a Stanley No.2 in good shape, grooving it will just about ruin it hundred, maybe more. If it was me I'd groove it and use it, but that's just me. I also believe bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, not collected.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/22/01 10:41:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com writes: Wondering what the list thought of grooving bench planes for our work. Saya No. 2, .002, .003, more or none?Don Thinking about it logically, what is a groove for? To keep the sides of theblade from nicking your forms, and still allowing you to plane the strip. With abench plane do you want to plane only .002 to .003 at a pass? Usually not. Inroughing you want to take as much off each pass as you can without lifts orchips. I have grooved my No.4 to .010 - whacking off great gobs of bambooat each pass - and the No.3 at .005 - more controlled whacking. If you own a Stanley No.2 in good shape, grooving it will just about ruin it forthe collectors. A No.2 in good shape will go for at least a couple hundred,maybe more. If it was me I'd groove it and use it, but that's just me. I alsobelieve bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, not collected.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/22/01 10:41:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com writes: Wondering what the listthought of grooving bench planes for our work. Say a No. 2, .002, .003, moreor none?Don from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Nov 22 13:23:35 2001 fAMJNUH16452 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:23:35 - fAMJNN419802; Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... --------------CE8C6DB46630C25B4FAF1BA5 I use a Lie Nielson #4 for almost everything. I find the weight veryhelpful in getting accurate strips. You only have to puish the planeforward and not hold it down. This means that every strip comes out thesame if the blade is sharp.Ed Hartzell DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Catching up on my email after a long session at the planing bench -working on another modification of the 8ft 6ft convertible rod - Ifind I have started to use the bench plane for just about everythingexcept a final few passes with the Record block plane. I have gottenso used to the way the bench plane cuts, and can get so precise withit, I can get the strips down to very close to the final size usingthe bench plane only. So far I have had no lifts or chips with thebench plane - I don't know if it's a function of the plane, or I havejust been lucky. I tend to lean towards it's the plane, because myRecord plane has chipped a node where the bench plane hadn't. I visited an upscale woodworking store last weekend looking for whatwas available in bench planes. The No.4 size is quite common, and willdo for bamboo work, but is just a little bit long and heavy at 10inches long and 2 1/4 inches wide, and weighs around 4 to 5 pounds.The next size down, a No.3 is still being made by Stanley, but storesdon't commonly carry them. The next size down, No.2, isn't being madeany more except by one place I saw on the web - Lie-Nielsen, but it'sa whopping $235. I think a 2 would be ideal for guys with smallerhands and a 3 would be better for guys with bigger hands. A 4 would dothe job, but would give you a workout in the process.I have a 4 and a 3. I find the 4 is great for whacking off great gobsof bamboo when I first start roughing the strip, and the 3 is good forgetting close to final size. Knowing what I know now, and if I neededto conserve money buying planes, I would get a 3 bench plane, a Record9 1/2 and a Lie-Nielsen 212 scraper. That's all I commonly use toplane strips now.Darryl Hayashida --------------CE8C6DB46630C25B4FAF1BA5 helpful in getting accurate strips. You only have to puish the plane forwardand not hold it down. This means that every strip comes out the same ifthe blade is sharp.Ed HartzellDNHayashida@aol.com wrote:Catchingup on my email after a long session at the planing bench - working on anothermodification of the 8ft 6ft convertible rod - I find I have started touse the bench plane for just about everything except a final few passeswith the Record block plane. I have gotten so used to the way the benchplane cuts, and can get so precise with it, I can get the strips down tovery close to the final size using the bench plane only. So far I havehad no lifts or chips with the bench plane - I don't know if it's a functionof the plane, or I have just been lucky. I tend to lean towards it's theplane, because my Record plane has chipped a node where the bench planehadn't.Ivisitedan upscale woodworking store last weekend looking for what was availablein bench planes. The No.4 size is quite common, and will do for bamboowork, but is just a little bit long and heavy at 10 inches long and 2 1/4inches wide, and weighs around 4 to 5 pounds. The next size down, a No.3is still being made by Stanley, but stores don't commonly carry them. Thenext size down, No.2, isn't being made any more except by one place I sawon the web - Lie-Nielsen, but it's a whopping $235. I think a 2 would be bigger hands. A 4 would do the job, but would give you a workout in theprocess.Ihave a 4 and a 3. I find the 4 is great for whacking off great gobs ofbamboo when I first start roughing the strip, and the 3 is good for gettingclose to final size. Knowing what I know now, and if I needed to conservemoney buying planes, I would get a 3 bench plane, a Record 9 1/2 and aLie-Nielsen 212 scraper. That's all I commonly use to plane stripsnow.DarrylHayashida --------------CE8C6DB46630C25B4FAF1BA5-- from homes-sold@home.com Thu Nov 22 13:59:34 2001 fAMJxYH17054 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:59:34 - femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:59:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes Darryl,I primarily don't want the blade to touch the forms. Not interested in = Like you I also believe bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, not = Looks like I'll go back to my old trick and put masking tape down each = One last question: Is there any order plane/scrapper you would recommend =a groove? Thanks.Don Darryl,I primarily don't want the blade to = Like you I also= rods are fishing poles - to be used, not collected. I also don't want to = screw-up a tool if I don't have to. Looks like I'll= old trick and put masking tape down each edge of the sole to create a = One last = order plane/scrapper you would recommend a groove? =Thanks.Don from stoltz10@home.com Thu Nov 22 14:07:50 2001 fAMK7nH17321 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:07:49 - femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Happy Thanksgiving Happy Thanksgiving to all. Tim Happy Thanksgiving toall. Tim from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 22 14:58:13 2001 fAMKwCH18158 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:58:12 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I use a levered clamp that is mounted to the two by sixes that I placemy planing form on. A simple motion releases the clamp so that the stripcan be flipped. I don't add a great deal extra to the strip as I justplane past the clamp when I flip the strip. I believe this was anotherof Darryl's ideas a few years back. It has really saved my shoulders. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Frank Stetzer wrote: I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 22 15:00:27 2001 fAML0QH18362 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:00:26 - Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Harry, Do you have any playdough handy? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Harry Boyd wrote: John, Good question. So far I haven't doneanything. I wonder if there is a way to put sometape or something over the opening between thebody of the plane and the foot? You know thelittle gap I'm talking about. Any creativesolutions out there? from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 22 15:14:30 2001 fAMLEUH18858 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:14:30 - Subject: Stripper Guides What are the different types of stripper guides used by variousbuilders?Are there weight considerations? I like the looks of a large snake guideused in the place of a stripper guide, are there specific reasons whythis should not be done? Would it cause too much line slap? I really do not like the clunky heavy footed stripper guides that aregenerally available today. I like the looks of the tiny jeweled pieces that were used in the pastand have been revived and are being used by some now, but it seems thesize of these would be restrictive for good line control? Anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from DNHayashida@aol.com Thu Nov 22 15:25:01 2001 fAMLP1H19131 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:25:01 - for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:24:52 - Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes It's just a matter of thinking about what you want to do at the point you use the tool. A 9 1/2 block plane where you are close to the final dimensions you don't want to take off too much, so a .002 groove is sufficient. Where doyou use your scraper? If it is to fix lifts or chips, then a deeper groove would help. If it's the last couple passes to get the last little bit of bamboo flush to the form, then a very shallow groove - around .001 or .002.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/22/01 12:00:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com writes: Darryl,I primarily don't want the blade to touch the forms. Not interested in collecting planes, but appreciate good tools. Like you I also believe bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, not collected. I also don't want to screw- up a tool if I don't have to. Looks like I'll go back to my old trick and put masking tape down each edge of the sole to create a groove. One last question: Is there any order plane/scrapper you would recommenda groove? Thanks.Don It's just a matter of thinking about what you want to do at the point you usethe tool. A 9 1/2 block plane where you are close to the final dimensions youdon't want to take off too much, so a .002 groove is sufficient. Where doyou use your scraper? If it is to fix lifts or chips, then a deeper groove wouldhelp. If it's the last couple passes to get the last little bit of bamboo flush tothe form, then a very shallow groove - around .001 or .002.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/22/01 12:00:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com writes:Darryl,I primarily don't wantthe blade to touch the forms. Not interested in collecting planes, butappreciate good tools. Like you I also believebamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, not collected. I also don't want toscrew-up a tool if I don't have to. Looks like I'll go back tomy old trick and put masking tape down each edge of the sole to create agroove. One last question: Isthere any order plane/scrapper you would recommend a groove?Thanks.Don from lkoeser@ceva.net Thu Nov 22 15:34:12 2001 fAMLYBH19441 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:34:11 - Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:30:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I also use toggle clamps mounted on my planing board. It helps preventunnecessary stress on my wrists. Hate to develop carpel tunnel at my age.Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... Frank, Chuck Irvine uses a Toggle clamp to hold his strips. He mounts it on a board next to his form. Looks like he allow several inches more to allow for theplane length. Planes the beginning of the strip toggles the clamp down andthen continues down the strip. I think he did a article on it in a planingform. Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Frank Stetzer Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 7:00 AMSubject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? Obviously I've never figured out how people use a clamp to hold thestrip.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Nov 22 16:09:57 2001 fAMM9sH19883 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:09:55 - for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:20:22 +0800 Subject: [Fwd: Website] Sorry Rex, I really meant to send this to the list. Todd Talsma wrote: If anyone has more questions, let me know. After all, that's one ofmyjobs. I'd be happy to help anyone if you have questions about editors (I use FrontPage 2000 and NetObjects Fusion) or just questions ingeneral. That reminds me, I owe Shawn Pineo an answer to a question.Also, Bob mentioned Netscape Composer as a free alternative. It's OKand you can (or could) get a copy of FrontPage express as well. Ihavea copy here that I could send someone if they needed it. Rex Tutor wrote: I have been asked how documents (rodbuilding information or instructions) and / orpictures can be put on a web site. It is prettyeasy. There are several free sources forwebsites. Yahoo Geocities go tohttp://geocities.yahoo.com/home/You need to sign up for Yahoo , you mayget a little unwanted email but read yourregistration carefully and you can minimizeSpam. There is a file manager in geocities thatlets you upload a file. Also there is a programthat lets you create a website.If the list wants more details letsdiscuss this or if you want more assistance Iwill be glad to direct you off line.There are several sites that offer theseservices at the cost of ads that appear on yourwebsite. About.com, angelfire (which is Lycos)etc - search the terms "free website"I wish I could build rods as well as Ican operate a PC. But maybe with 15 years ofrod building ( only 1 year so far) like I havewith computers it will be better.I have graduated to an HTML editor whichis more complex than the step by step websitebuilders provided for free at the above sites.They are also available in freeware such asArachnophilia. The web also has lots oninstruction on HTML which is the language thatlets you control a website.This is the easiest way to save bandwidth on the list . Just direct people todocuments and pictures with one line. Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips & Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/family/index.htm --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips & Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/family/index.htm from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Nov 22 16:13:32 2001 fAMMDUH20112 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:13:30 - for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:23:57 +0800 Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I've had this process described to me and I think I've got a picture ofhow it works, but if anyone can send be a photo of this, I'll put it upon the tips site. I think it would help clear up a lot of questions. Frank Stetzer wrote: I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? Obviously I've never figured out how people use a clamp to hold thestrip....................................................................... Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better stetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips & Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/family/index.htm from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 22 17:27:19 2001 fAMNRIH20887 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:27:19 -0600 helo=default) id 1673FV-0005x4-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:27:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem A light application of silicone caulk, perhaps? M-D John, Good question. So far I haven't doneanything. I wonder if there is a way to put sometape or something over the opening between thebody of the plane and the foot? You know thelittle gap I'm talking about. Any creativesolutions out there? Harry John Long wrote: Did you do anything to prevent future build-upof crud? from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 22 17:45:19 2001 fAMNjIH21230 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:45:18 -0600 helo=default) id 1673Wr-00052q-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:45:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Stripper Guides Why not use a Pac-Bay anti-fouling guide? They are pretty svelte. M-D What are the different types of stripper guides used by variousbuilders?Are there weight considerations? I like the looks of a large snake guideused in the place of a stripper guide, are there specific reasons whythis should not be done? Would it cause too much line slap? I really do not like the clunky heavy footed stripper guides that aregenerally available today. I like the looks of the tiny jeweled pieces that were used in the pastand have been revived and are being used by some now, but it seems thesize of these would be restrictive for good line control? Anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 22 17:59:14 2001 fAMNxDH21513 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:59:13 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... Todd and Frank, I don't add any extra to the strip, because when I getthe bottom two thirds triangulated, I simply move the clamp down thereand continue p;aning the upper part. If you are not clear down to theform, the clamps work swell. I'll try to get some pictures to you.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from homes-sold@home.com Thu Nov 22 18:41:55 2001 fAN0fsH22140 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:41:55 - femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:41:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes I use a 60 1/2 LN Low Angle, LN 212 Scraper & a 9 1/2. Use the scraper = using wider forms, Wood 2"+, for last 3 years. I like them so much I =gave my steel forms away. Masking tape works exceedingly well on wood =forms but not well at all on narrow steel forms unless you make the =groove about 1/2" wide. The tape doesn't grab and slides well on either. =Surprising how long the tape last if you don't fall off the forms. Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes It's just a matter of thinking about what you want to do at the point =you use the tool. A 9 1/2 block plane where you are close to the final =dimensions you don't want to take off too much, so a .002 groove is =sufficient. Where do you use your scraper? If it is to fix lifts or =chips, then a deeper groove would help. If it's the last couple passes =to get the last little bit of bamboo flush to the form, then a very =shallow groove - around .001 or .002.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/22/01 12:00:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, =homes- sold@home.com writes: Darryl,I primarily don't want the blade to touch the forms. Not interested in = Like you I also believe bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, = Looks like I'll go back to my old trick and put masking tape down each = One last question: Is there any order plane/scrapper you would =recommend a groove? Thanks.Don I use a 60 1/2 LN Low Angle, LN 212 = like them so much I gave my steel forms away. Masking tape works = well on wood forms but not well at all on narrow steel forms unless you = groove about 1/2" wide. The tape doesn't grab and slides well on either. = Surprising how long the tape last if you don't fall off the =forms. From:DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 1:24 PMSubject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes just a matter of thinking about what you want to do at the point you use = tool. A 9 1/2 block plane where you are close to the final dimensions = want to take off too much, so a .002 groove is sufficient. Where do you = scraper? If it is to fix lifts or chips, then a deeper groove would = it's the last couple passes to get the last little bit of bamboo flush = HayashidaIn a message dated 11/22/01 12:00:00 PM Pacific = homes-sold@home.com writes:Darryl,I primarily don't want the blade to touch the = interested in collecting planes, but appreciate good tools. =Like you I= bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, not collected. I also = to screw-up a tool if I don't have to. Lookslike = my old trick and put masking tape down each edge of the sole to create = groove. One last question: Is there any order = would recommend a groove? Thanks.Don from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Nov 22 19:29:30 2001 fAN1TRH22715 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:29:28 - Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:29:09 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:29:08 +0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Clamps for nodeless Sounds like a good idea to me Mike. Probably cheaper than pony clamps too.Mike -----Original Message----- Subject: Clamps for nodeless Guys,I was just wondering if you think that the use of large paper clips (calledBulldog clips) would work for holding pressure on the joints of yournodeless rods? I don't make nodeless yet, but was just wondering what youguys who do think.Mike from homes-sold@home.com Thu Nov 22 19:29:33 2001 fAN1TWH22720 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:29:32 - femail48.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:29:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes Ian,I always wanted to try the feeler gages but the tape has worked so well = doesn't come through the tape and you don't fall off the forms it has =worked fine for me. I tried the tape initially to see if I wanted to =invest in the grooved LNs, which I'm glad I did. My wider forms also =help a lot.Don Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes Don, I found that masking tape does not glide over the forms too easily and =bought two cheap sets of the strips for measuring gaps in car engines. I =think they are called feeler gauges but are the metal strips which =measure .002 , ,003 , etc up to .008. I stick two of these of the =appropriate size ( .003 in my case ) on to the sole with super glue and =they work very well most of the time. Every now and then one drops off =at the wrong time but they do slide well and also have a consistent =thickness. Ian Subject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes Darryl,I primarily don't want the blade to touch the forms. Not interested in = Like you I also believe bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, = Looks like I'll go back to my old trick and put masking tape down each = One last question: Is there any order plane/scrapper you would =recommend a groove? Thanks.Don Ian,I always wanted to try the feeler gages= tape has worked so well for me I never got around to it. As long as the = of the blade doesn't come through the tape and you don't fall off the = invest in the grooved LNs, which I'm glad I did. My wider forms also = lot.Don From:Ian Kearney = Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 12:52 PMSubject: Re: Grooving Bench Planes Don, I found that masking tape does not = forms too easily and bought two cheap sets of the strips for measuring = car engines. I think they are called feeler gauges but are the metal = appropriate size ( .003 in my case ) on to the sole with super glue and = work very well most of the time. Every now and then one drops off at the = time but they do slide well and also have a consistent =thickness. Ian ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001= AMSubject: Re: Grooving Bench =Planes Darryl,I primarily don't want the blade to = Like you I also= bamboo rods are fishing poles - to be used, not collected. I also = to screw-up a tool if I don't have to. Looks like I'll= old trick and put masking tape down each edge of the sole to create a = One last = Thanks.Don from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 22 19:56:12 2001 fAN1uBH23396 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:56:11 - 22 Nov 2001 17:56:07 PST Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem --- Bob Nunley wrote: I already emailed Harry about this, but the mostsimple solution to thingslike this is easy and takes very little time. Everytime you finish a rod,take an hour or so of time, disassemble and cleanall your planes, scrapers, i have a little toothbrush style brush with stainlesssteel bristles just for this purpose. it gets anybuildup in the crevices. happy thanksgiving all.lastnite i made 9 pies(pumpkin, raisin, chocolatecream) a choc sheetcake and gigantic pumpkincheesecake. tomorrow i will try to emulate a rodmakeragain. cheers! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Nov 22 21:00:47 2001 fAN30jH24132 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:00:46 - (authenticated) Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:00:25 -0800 Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Ralph, Guess I'm more lazy about that than I shouldbe. My grandfather taught me a lot about toolsand stuff. His number one rule was "take goodcare of your tools, and they will take good careof you." If he was still around, he'd scold me onthis, that's for sure. I still use his oldArkansas stone once in a while, just for kicks.And I keep his "whittlin' knife" in a specialplace in my shop, along with a few other toolsthat still have his imprint. Guess he's stillteaching me some things... Harry Ralph Moon wrote: Jist one Harry. Clean it dailyRalph -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Nov 22 21:01:44 2001 fAN31iH24244 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:01:44 - (authenticated) Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:01:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Steve Trauthwein wrote: Do you have any playdough handy? Good idea, Steve... I wonder if the salt in theplaydough will rust a plane? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Nov 22 21:08:02 2001 fAN381H24589 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:08:01 - 22 Nov 2001 19:07:57 PST Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem you could use modeling clay or visit the art store forart clay. timothy--- Harry Boyd wrote: Steve Trauthwein wrote: Do you have any playdough handy? Good idea, Steve... I wonder if the salt in theplaydough will rust a plane? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from HalManas@aol.com Thu Nov 22 21:30:48 2001 fAN3UmH24957 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:30:48 - for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:30:31 - Subject: gloves All,Do any of you wear gloves to protect your hand when planing? I used to get sliced up quite a bit and I use some leather work gloves now, but I remember reading in a post not long ago about some rubber gloves from anOSH store. I don't know what an OSH store is so I'm just wondering what you use Hal All, I use some leather work gloves now, but I remember reading in a post not what an OSH store is so I'm just wondering what you use for gloves. Thanks. from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Thu Nov 22 21:40:57 2001 fAN3eqH25347 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:40:52 - Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:40:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Simple solution to frustrating problem Harry, Without looking at my own plane, how big of gap are we talking about.Surely you have some varnish laying about. Maybe you could paint a littleover the gap to seal it up? And it wouldn't have that great of bond thatyou couldn't remove it later. Tim from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Nov 22 21:47:22 2001 fAN3lGH25583 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:47:16 - Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:46:59 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:46:59 +0800 Subject: RE: gloves Hi Hal,I think OSH stands for Occupational Safety and Health. And as lot of the other guys, I learned to do that the hard way : )Mike -----Original Message----- All, Do any of you wear gloves to protect your hand when planing? I usedto get sliced up quite a bit and I use some leather work gloves now, but Iremember reading in a post not long ago about some rubber gloves from anOSHstore. I don't know what an OSH store is so I'm just wondering what you use Hal from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Nov 22 22:27:46 2001 fAN4RjH26335 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:27:45 - (authenticated) Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:27:20 -0800 Subject: Re: gloves --------------F837C0B06BF00C3E277986C2 Hal, I never wear gloves while planing. Justlucky, I guess.Harry HalManas@aol.com wrote: Do any of you wear gloves to protect yourhand when planing? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------F837C0B06BF00C3E277986C2 Hal, I guess. HalManas@aol.com wrote: -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------F837C0B06BF00C3E277986C2-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Nov 22 22:32:10 2001 fAN4W9H26558 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:32:09 - Subject: Re: gloves rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I used to wear gloves but put that practice aside as I found it awkward for final planing, although once in a great while I wear them for splitting. I have hardly ever cut myself, now splinters, that is another matter.Bret from robertgkope@home.com Thu Nov 22 22:37:31 2001 fAN4bUH26817 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:37:30 - femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:37:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I used a spring clamp for a couple of rods, and didn't use strips any longerthan normal. I followed Peter McKean's instructions and used the clamppretty much the same way I use my left hand to hold the strips. I cut a rabbet in a scrap of 2x10 to hold one end of the planing form anddrilled a couple of holes in the other side to fit over a couple of benchdogs. Then block up the other end of the form so the whole form iselevated. This seems to help even if you don't use a clamp to hold thestrip. To plane you just clamp the strip about 8 inches from the end, andplane up to the clamp, then move the clamp behind the plane without liftingthe plane, and finish the stroke. You do have to move the clamp back up thestrip before you start your next stroke. This gives you great control while you plane, and moving that spring clamptwice on each pass with the plane really gives your left forearm a workout.The last couple of rods I went back to holding the strip by hand, but Istill used the form elevated. The block for holding the planing form reallyholds it securely, and I think the clamp method does help you improve yourcontrol of the plane. -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... I've got a question to follow up on Darryl's post. Those of you that use a spring clamp to hold the strip on the form,how much longer does the strip need to be to allow for the clamp?Do you remove the clamp and plane that part? If not, what happenswhen you flip the strip? from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 22 23:22:57 2001 fAN5MuH27597 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:22:56 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... fAN5MvH27598 The reason this is so is because the bench plane has the plane iron set at the right angle and there is also a chip breaker. It's better designed for the job, it's just hard to use single handed so as long as you have a means of holding the strips in place you're happy with it will work better than a block plane.All bench planes have missing (of those currently available so far) is an adjustable throat but this is what the frog is for so if the plane is properly tuned it will work great.The frog moves the plane iron backwards and forwards achieving the same role as the adjustable throat of a block plane but less conveniently as to adjust the frog the plane iron has to be removed. Tony At 05:04 PM 11/22/01 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: There is absolutely no reason not to use the benchplane It has been my experience the lifting a node with thebenchplane is a very rare thing. Don't know why, it isjust so. And yes, I do use a block plane: for "whackingoff great gobs" of cane. regards, carsten jorgensen /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Nov 22 23:26:25 2001 fAN5QPH27814 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:26:25 - ([209.178.134.188] helo=g2t8c9) id 1678r2-0007b4-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:26:24 -0800 Subject: gloves Kevlar gloves here. Only on the left hand while planing and both hands whilerunning the beveler. No cuts but splinters can get through the mesh. Theybreath and do not restrict the hands at all. Adam Vigil from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Nov 23 02:35:42 2001 fAN8ZeH29595 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:35:40 -0600 Subject: Re: gloves If the strip is putting up a struggle it's time to sharpen the iron. Tony At 10:25 PM 11/22/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Hal, I never wear gloves while planing. Just lucky, I guess.Harry HalManas@aol.com wrote: Do any of you wear gloves to protect your hand when planing? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Nov 23 04:37:42 2001 fANAbfH00485 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 04:37:41 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: thanks guys Thanks all for checking out my web site! I have made some of the changesyousuggested and I will be revamping the whole thing soon.I will be adding more links and pictures at lower resolution (I checked and Ihadgrabbed the pictures out of my wrong file) The pictures I had installed werehigh resones. That was the biggest comment I heard, the pictures took too long todownload.Part of that may be my server as well.The ad banner is one thing I can't do anything about until I switch to aproperserver, sorry. meI could use it. Sure is nice eh?I already know I can do a better job on the next site, Once again thankseveryone for the comments,Shawn from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 23 05:20:26 2001 fANBKPH00909 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 05:20:25 -0600 fANBK4Y43616; Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... Alternatively, you can place the clamp on the strip about 9 or 10 inches =up the strip from the butt end, carefully plane up to that point, remove =the clamp and replace it on the butt, without lifting the plane (block =plane in this case), and continue planing the strip.Sounds a bit messy, but in practice it becomes automatic and works =really well. I have got to the point where it is only a problem if I =stop and think about it. Peter Alternatively, you can place the clamp = about 9 or 10 inches up the strip from the butt end, carefully plane up = point, remove the clamp and replace it on the butt, without lifting the = (block plane in this case), and continue planing the strip.Sounds a bit messy, but in practice it = automatic and works really well. I have got to the point where it is = problem if I stop and think about it. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 23 05:38:32 2001 fANBcVH01281 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 05:38:31 -0600 fANBcNm44754; Subject: Re: gloves One big advantage of clamping the strip is that you can usually dispensewith the gloves without getting cut. If you are down nearly to the forms,the strip may in fact just slip forward, but you aren't holding it with yourfingers.At that stage, I just put a little piece of that sort of non skid plasticstuff about 1" X 1/2" between the strip and the clamp. I have no idea whatit's called, but it's absolutely everywhere, and it's as cheap as chips. Ipinch mine from a bloke up the street who runs a caravan yard("campervan",I guess).This stuff has a million uses on the workbench. Peter from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 23 06:35:34 2001 fANCZYH01790 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:35:34 -0600 Subject: Re: gloves HalManas@aol.com wrote: All,Do any of you wear gloves to protect your hand when planing? .... Another benefit of using a clamp to hold the strips, no need for gloves. from lkoeser@ceva.net Fri Nov 23 07:25:40 2001 fANDPdH02278 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 07:25:39 -0600 Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:22:01 -0500 Subject: Re: gloves I lose the feel of the planing process with a glove. I'd rather have a fewcuts than risk screwing up a strip. However, I use a toggle clamp to holdthe strip except when I'm planing the section that I couldn't do with theclamp in place. My blood coagulates quickly, and I have a high level forpain. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: gloves HalManas@aol.com wrote: All,Do any of you wear gloves to protect your hand when planing? .... Another benefit of using a clamp to hold the strips, no need for gloves. from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Fri Nov 23 08:18:57 2001 fANEIuH02921 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:18:56 -0600 Fri, 23 Nov 2001 06:18:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Stripper Guides FILETIME=[C64EAAD0:01C17429] Steve, Your post made my hair stand on end- I too have been going through anendless search for the perfect stripper guide with poor results. Weight is probably not a practical consideration. Even the heaviest stripperguides out there would only represent about 1% of the total weight of therod. You could probably use a snake guide instead of a stripper, but use ofstripping guides is so traditional that it would look funny, or at leastpeople would think that it looked funny. There is no easy answer to finding the perfect guide. I have been orderingthem right and left from different suppliers. Most of the ones I havereceived do not look quite the way I want. My solution has been to stop atevery old gas station, hardware store, tackle shop, and antique store I passto look for old boxes of guides, or old beat up rods with a guide or twothat I can salvage. Most of the time I arrive about 5 minutes after anotherrodmaker has purchased the entire supply. You are right that most classic bamboo rods have small stripper guides. Theywere designed for small diameter silk lines. There is undoubtedly a loss ofperformance with a small "traditional" stripper guide when used with amodern fly line, but most of the rods I saw at a gathering were not madewith larger guides to accomodate the modern fly lines. Personally, I like Howell's advice. If it looks too big, it's too big. I gowith small guides simply due to tradition. I may lose some distance, butbamboo rods are really better for delicate and accurate close rangepresentation. At least that's what I tell myself. Jeff Schaeffer from rextutor@about.com Fri Nov 23 08:30:17 2001 fANEUHH03204 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:30:17 -0600 (NPlex 5.5.029) 2001 06:23:16 -0800 Subject: Re: gloves I wear one glove on the left hand whileholding the plane in my dominant , right. It handles all the bamboo holding and touching. It is calf It protects me from all cuts and 99% splinters. I never slide my finger up the form with a bamboo split in it. They are usually sharp enough to cut . I did this once and it was like running my finger on a blade , I drip stained my bench but no stitches. Sign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Nov 23 08:41:25 2001 fANEfJH03564 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:41:19 -0600 0000 (63.228.44.59) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Stripper Guides Mildrum guides are in my view small enough to not look cluncky.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Stripper Guides Steve, Your post made my hair stand on end- I too have been going through anendless search for the perfect stripper guide with poor results. Weight is probably not a practical consideration. Even the heaviest stripper guides out there would only represent about 1% of the total weight of therod. You could probably use a snake guide instead of a stripper, but use ofstripping guides is so traditional that it would look funny, or at leastpeople would think that it looked funny. There is no easy answer to finding the perfect guide. I have been orderingthem right and left from different suppliers. Most of the ones I havereceived do not look quite the way I want. My solution has been to stop atevery old gas station, hardware store, tackle shop, and antique store I pass to look for old boxes of guides, or old beat up rods with a guide or twothat I can salvage. Most of the time I arrive about 5 minutes after anotherrodmaker has purchased the entire supply. You are right that most classic bamboo rods have small stripper guides. They were designed for small diameter silk lines. There is undoubtedly a loss ofperformance with a small "traditional" stripper guide when used with amodern fly line, but most of the rods I saw at a gathering were not madewith larger guides to accomodate the modern fly lines. Personally, I like Howell's advice. If it looks too big, it's too big. I gowith small guides simply due to tradition. I may lose some distance, butbamboo rods are really better for delicate and accurate close rangepresentation. At least that's what I tell myself. Jeff Schaeffer from channer@frontier.net Fri Nov 23 10:09:49 2001 fANG9mH05294 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:09:48 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:20:18 -0700 Subject: re:stripping guides and gloves strippers in size 8mm. Mildrum's are o.k. up to size 9mm, size 10's seemlike they jump up to about a pound. Gloves?, mine are built in,carpentry and concrete will do that to you after a while.john from stoltz10@home.com Fri Nov 23 10:46:59 2001 fANGkxH06001 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:46:59 -0600 femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Re:gloves I use rubber finger tips that you can get at office max. They allow me =to grip the cane better than gloves when I'm planing. I use rubber finger tips that you can = planing. from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Nov 23 10:50:13 2001 fANGoCH06221 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:50:12 -0600 0000 (63.228.45.14) Subject: Re:gloves Me too!-----Original Message-----From: Tim Stoltz Subject: Re:gloves I use rubber finger tips that you can get at office max. They allow =me to grip the cane better than gloves when I'm planing. Me too! -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Re:glovesI use rubber finger tips that you = planing. from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 23 11:06:03 2001 fANH62H06616 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:06:02 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:05:55 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... One of the features of a Stanley bench plane is an adjusting screw behind the frog that moves it forwards and backwards without having to remove theblade. Not all regular Stanley bench planes have them. That feature seems to have been sporadically added and removed over the years. The Stanley Bedrock series has the frog adjuster all the time as far as I've seen, but again the collectors have elevated the prices for Bedrock planes.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/22/01 9:24:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: The frog moves the plane iron backwards and forwards achieving the same role as the adjustable throat of a block plane but less conveniently as to adjust the frog the plane iron has to be removed. One of the features of a Stanley bench plane is an adjusting screw behind thefrog that moves it forwards and backwards without having to remove theblade. Not all regular Stanley bench planes have them. That feature seems tohave been sporadically added and removed over the years. The StanleyBedrock series has the frog adjuster all the time as far as I've seen, butagain the collectors have elevated the prices for Bedrock planes.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/22/01 9:24:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: The frog moves theplane iron backwards and forwards achieving the same role as the adjustable throat of a block plane but less conveniently as to adjust the frog the plane iron has to be removed. from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 23 11:16:16 2001 fANHGGH06925 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:16:16 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:16:04 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... As an illustration, take a look at item 1035048464 on ebay. It is a size 3 Stanley Bedrock plane, but the price is already up to $102.50. Ordinary size 3 planes are usually below $50.00Darryl One of the features of a Stanley bench plane is an adjusting screw behind the frog that moves it forwards and backwards without having to removethe blade. Not all regular Stanley bench planes have them. That feature seems to have been sporadically added and removed over the years. The Stanley Bedrock series has the frog adjuster all the time as far as I've seen, but again the collectors have elevated the prices for Bedrock planes.Darryl Hayashida As an illustration, takea look at item 1035048464 on ebay. It is a size 3 Stanley Bedrock plane, butthe price is already up to $102.50. Ordinary size 3 planes are usually below$50.00Darryl One of the features of a Stanleybench plane is an adjusting screw behind the frog that moves it forwards andbackwards without having to remove the blade. Not all regular Stanley benchplanes have them. That feature seems to have been sporadically added andremoved over the years. The Stanley Bedrock series has the frog adjuster allthe time as far as I've seen, but again the collectors have elevated theprices for Bedrock planes.Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 23 11:16:53 2001 fANHGqH07005 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:16:52 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: gloves I have said it before here, but once again-----I do not like to wear gloves at all. Yes I have cut myself numeroustimes, and had more than my share of splinters, but with experience, onelearns not to do those things that contribute to injuries. The onlytime I use gloves at all is when i am working with a tough piece ofcane, or a dull blade (never), and I need to hold the strip precisely.Then I use a latex surgeon's glove on my left hand. Works for me, butif you have tender hands, then maybe welders gloves are best.(WAS)Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 23 11:27:55 2001 fANHRnH07493 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:27:49 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:27:44 - Subject: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Found a web site that sells new No.3 Stanley bench planes. It's the Garrett- Wade site. Go to http://www.garrettwade.com and search forStanley.I can't vouch for the quality of the new planes, I haven't seen one in person.Darryl Founda web site that sells new No.3 Stanley bench planes. It's the Garrett- Wadesite. Go to http://www.garrettwade.com and search for Stanley.I can't vouch for the quality of the new planes, I haven't seen one inperson.Darryl from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Fri Nov 23 11:34:49 2001 fANHYmH07775 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:34:48 -0600 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Stripper Guides Steve, If you can't find what you like, do it yourself. I just started buildingthem, its not that difficult. This way you can built them to your own spec.My agate stripper has in ID of 1/4" which is plenty big enough for modernlines. While I'm at it, does any one know the lifespan of a stripper guide ringmade of 18% nickel silver. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Stripper Guides What are the different types of stripper guides used by variousbuilders?Are there weight considerations? I like the looks of a large snake guideused in the place of a stripper guide, are there specific reasons whythis should not be done? Would it cause too much line slap? I really do not like the clunky heavy footed stripper guides that aregenerally available today. I like the looks of the tiny jeweled pieces that were used in the pastand have been revived and are being used by some now, but it seems thesize of these would be restrictive for good line control? Anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 23 11:49:22 2001 fANHnLH08234 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:49:21 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:49:04 - Subject: Re: Speaking about planes...... Snip There is absolutely no reason not to use the benchplane Snip I do use a block plane: for "whackingoff great gobs" of cane I knew that phrase would get picked up!Seriously though, the effort to "Whack off great gobs of cane" using a bench plane is less and I found that doing the same with a block plane leads to more lifts and chips. I do not see any reason one couldn't go to final dimensions with a bench plane, but my bench planes are set up to rough plane with a rather deep groove. If I can aquire a smaller (size 2) bench plane I will set it up with a .002 groove and try it for final planingDarryl Hayashida Snip Snip block plane: for "whacking I knew that phrase would get picked up!Seriously though, the effort to "Whack off great gobs of cane" using a benchplane is less and I found that doing the same with a block plane leads to morelifts and chips. I do not see any reason one couldn't go to final dimensionswith a bench plane, but my bench planes are set up to rough plane with arather deep groove. If I can aquire a smaller (size 2) bench plane I will set itup with a .002 groove and try it for final planingDarryl Hayashida from Dennishigham@cs.com Fri Nov 23 12:36:37 2001 fANIabH09547 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:36:37 -0600 Subject: Re: flawed varnish coat David,First open the Sam Adams, open two. A number of us have had that varnish problem. Ken Rongy and Al Medved & me to name three. We've never foundTHE cause or the perfect answer (yet). There are two theories about what's happening. First is that something's getting on the blank and acting as a release agent preventing the varnish from sticking. Might be mayo from the turkey sandwich at lunch or silicon from a rag or an additive in your mineral spirits or as one rodmaker therorized the heat from sanding was causing something in the resin that holds the grit to the paper to release silicon or something similar. Second theory is that sanding between coats with toofine a sandpaper will burnish the old varnish coat and not give the new coat anything to hold on to. Varnish, unlike shellac, doesn't dissolve the surface of the old coat to form a chemical bond but rather forms a mechanical bond and so needs the old coat roughed up to give the new coat something to grab on to. 1200 grit may be too fine to allow the new varnish to bond well and surface tension would pull open areas on the wider flats leaving them free of varnish.I don't know which of these is true, maybe neither, but sanding with 400 or 600 paper then scrubbing the blank with either denatured alcohol ot acetone and after blowing off any dust putting the blank into the varnish dry (no mineral spirit wipe down) pretty much eliminated the problem for me. I do check the butt while waiting for the varnish to flow off the stripper by shining a bright light on each flat to see the reflection of wet varnish, any open areas get scrubbed with a brush dipped in varnish and the butt section lowered back into the varnish and re- extracted. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you but the above stuff works for me. Dennis P.S. Ken & Al use PPG and I use Helmsman. I've tried replacing my varnish and Ken's even swapped dip tubes with Wayne C. with no help so it's not the varnish. from splitcane@home.com Fri Nov 23 12:41:48 2001 fANIflH09825 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:41:47 -0600 ;Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:41:29 -0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Hello All... I'm a little confused here and maybe someone could enlighten me on thissubject... Jim Reames tapers are completely original and are not at least inpart based on vintage/modern tapers/methods at all? I have read and was under the impression Winston/Lew Stoner developed the hollow-fluted building in 1934 and Hollow Channel building with an internaltaper wasclamed to be developed by Per Brandin in 1988? If I developed a taper from three known tapers, developed a technique usingthree of the known hollowing methods, tweaked the numbers a little insideand out and sold it on the open market. I could call this my owntaper/technique and then request no one to copy it with out my permission? Dose Jim Reams belong to the list? It would make for some interestingexchanges on the list to hear his views personally... Take Care, Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Byrd Wrote: There has been some mention on the list of an 8 ft rod made by Jim Reamesthat is supposedely a great rod. Does anyone have a taper for this? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Vigil Wrote: I know Jim Reams, great rodmaker. He does develop his own tapers. I do nothave it and I do not think it is available. Just keep in mind if you do getJims taper that there is more going on there then meets the eye. He buildshollow rods and does it all the way into the tip. The dimension of wallthickness is only known to Jim. So even if the taper is available it wouldbe like building a rod with an EC Powell taper only to find out it cast nothing like the original rod. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Raine Wrote: I am a friend of Jimmy's. He has told me a number of times that he does notwant people (in general) using his tapers without his specific permission.If you would like Jim Reams phone number, email me and I will supply. Heis a most generous person, and may offer it up to you. His tapers, ifobtained, should be obtained on an individual basis, and not submitted tothe list for public scrutiny. from alspicer99@yahoo.com Fri Nov 23 13:08:51 2001 fANJ8oH10504 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:08:50 -0600 23 Nov 2001 11:08:46 PST Subject: Top 10 tapers - AND THE WINNER IS..... Fellow rodmakers, Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving, now back towork. I want to thank everyone who cast votes for theirfavorite rods. Thanks also for the notes withsuggestions and encouragement as well. They aregreatly appreciated. As you can see by the followinglist there was a great difference of opinion. I wantto explain how I arrived at the final results. Forfirst place I awarded 5 points, second place 4 pointsand so on... I totaled the scores and ranked themaccordantly. I also made note of how many first placevotes (FPV) a taper received. In the case of a tie theones with more first place votes ranked higher. Therewere 23 people participating and not all lists were inthe same format, some people only voted for their topone or two tapers, while others gave me a list of 6 or7. If you listed more than 5, I only took the top fivebut made note of the other at the bottom of the listin the Honorable Mention section. I don't know about anyone else, but this list helpedme decide which rods I'll be building next, hope ithelps you also. Happy planing Al Spicer,Greensboro, NC (FPV) = first place votes 1. PHY Midge -- 25 points & 3 (FPV) 2. PHY Driggs River Special -- 24 points & 2 (FPV)3. Dickerson 7613 -- 21 points & 3 (FPV) 4. Dickerson 8013 -- 18 points & 3 (FPV) 5. Leonard 38H -- 17 points & 2 (FPV) 5. PHY Para 14 -- 17 points & 2 (FPV) 5. Thramer 7' DX -- 17 points & 1 (FPV) ****** 13 points *****Payne 101 -- 2 (FPV) Cattanach 7' #4 (Sir D) -- 1 (FPV) ****** 10 points ***** Granger 8'-6" -- 1 (FPV)Payne 98 -- 1 (FPV) ****** 9 points *****PHY Perfectionist ****** 8 points *****PHY Martha Marie Dickerson 6611 ****** 7 points *****Garrison 202E -- 1 (FPV)Dickerson 7614 Nunley's 704PHY Para 15 ****** 5 points *****Thramer 7'-6" Parabolic 4/5 wt -- 1 (FPV) Granger 7' ****** 4 points *****Dickerson 8014 Francis Degere 6'-9" 2wtGillum 7' 4wtgLeonard 50DF ****** 3 points *****A&F "Favorite" by Edwards 7'-6"Dickerson 8614 Granger 7'-6"PHY "PerfectioniTom Smithwick Spiral ****** 2 points ***** Heddon FolsumLeonard 9'-6" ft Tournament 5 wt Orvis 5/9 UltralightR.L. Nunley 7' quadrate ****** 1 point *****Dickerson 801F.E. Thomas Special replica 6'8" 2/2 3wt (Joe Perrigo)Garrison 209Granger 8'Leonard Tournament 8' 3wgtPayne 195 3pc 3/4wtgPezon et Michel Fario Club 8'-6" ********* Honorable Mention *********Gary Lacy 7'-2"John Zimny 7 ft quadSweetwater Delaware River SpecialMontagues 8'-6"Montagues 9Thramer 444 without a ferrule.PHY Texas General 8'-6"Wayne Cattanach 6'-3" 3 wt.Halstead 7'-6" 4 wt. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from homes-sold@home.com Fri Nov 23 13:12:22 2001 fANJCMH10748 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:12:22 -0600 femail42.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:12:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Darryl, http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3 looks the same as the =No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm thinking about getting the No. 2. What do =you think?Don Subject: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Found a web site that sells new No.3 Stanley bench planes. It's the =Garrett- Wade site. Go to http://www.garrettwade.com and search for =Stanley.I can't vouch for the quality of the new planes, I haven't seen one in =person. Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes= http://www.lie- a new No. 3 looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm = getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don From:DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 9:27 AMSubject: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane site that sells new No.3 Stanley bench planes. It's the Garrett-Wade = http://www.garrettwade.com= one in person.Darryl from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 23 13:29:22 2001 fANJTLH11216 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:29:21 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:29:12 - Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane In a message dated 11/23/01 11:12:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com writes: The Garrett-Wade Stanley No.3 is $52.00. The Lie-Nielsen No.3 is $275.00.I'm sure the Lie-Nielsen is well worth the price, it is based on the Stanley Bedrock series, but some people might need to conserve on tool purchases.Darryl Hayashida Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at: http://www.lie- nielsen.comThey have a new No. 3 looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm thinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don In amessage dated 11/23/01 11:12:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com writes: The Garrett-Wade Stanley No.3 is $52.00. The Lie-Nielsen No.3 is $275.00.I'm sure the Lie-Nielsen is well worth the price, it is based on the StanleyBedrock series, but some people might need to conserve on toolpurchases.Darryl Hayashida Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at: http://www.lie-nielsen.com Theyhave a new No. 3 looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm thinkingabout getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Fri Nov 23 13:45:10 2001 fANJitH11576 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:44:55 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:44:45 -0800 Subject: Re: gloves I like the Atlas "Fit" gloves from Home Depot. Cloth on the back - bluerubber on the fingers & palms. Not as good as leather in terms ofprotection, but you can pick stuff up with them & get a better grip thanwith bare fingers. When planing, I wear a glove on my left hand. Helps hold the strip in place& you don't get splinters. No glove on the right hand that holds the plane.I wear gloves on both hands when splitting. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Nov 23 13:52:23 2001 fANJqMH11863 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:52:22 -0600 ([209.178.134.174] helo=g2t8c9) id 167MN2-0000e3-00; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:52:20 -0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Dave, While there is nothing new under the sun, there are those that cut a path disperse what they learned to whom they choose. I for one have no problem with a maker who wishes to keep his tapers tohimself. We all need to remember we work for ourselves and not for othermakers. If we share our R&D that is a personel choice. Even master chefs donot share all of their methods. Jim is not a member of the list and he is a very helpful maker and has beena rodmaker since the 70's. Jim did not learn hollow building from Winstonand Stoner, Powell nor from Per Brandin. In fact he shared with me that PerBrandin told Jim to not write an article on his hollow building techniquebecause he could tell from the way the rod felt he was doing what Per was interms of hollow building. Jim worked it out and I bet most of us could to. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Hello All... I'm a little confused here and maybe someone could enlighten me on thissubject... Jim Reames tapers are completely original and are not at least in part based on vintage/modern tapers/methods at all? Dose Jim Reams belong to the list? It would make for some interesting exchanges on the list to hear his views personally... Take Care, Dave from homes-sold@home.com Fri Nov 23 14:12:12 2001 fANKC7H12356 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:12:07 -0600 femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:12:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Oops, I looked at the 'Clifton Sheffield-made Premium Bailey-pattern =Bench Planes' and then looked at the Lie-Nielsen. Hey, Its only money !I have seen other UK Stanley look-a-like planes however and not =impressed with the quality.Don Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane In a message dated 11/23/01 11:12:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, =homes- sold@home.com writes: The Garrett-Wade Stanley No.3 is $52.00. The Lie-Nielsen No.3 is =$275.00. I'm sure the Lie-Nielsen is well worth the price, it is based =on the Stanley Bedrock series, but some people might need to conserve on =tool purchases.Darryl Hayashida Darryl, http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3 looks the same as the =No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm thinking about getting the No. 2. What do =you think?Don Oops, I looked at the 'Clifton Sheffield-made Premium = !I have seen other UK Stanley look-a-like = however and not impressed with the quality.Don From:DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 11:29 AMSubject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane message dated 11/23/01 11:12:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com = Garrett-Wade Stanley No.3 is $52.00. The Lie-Nielsen No.3 is $275.00. = the Lie-Nielsen is well worth the price, it is based on the Stanley = series, but some people might need to conserve on tool = HayashidaDarryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at: =http://www.lie- nielsen.com They have a new No. 3 looks the same as the No. = think?Don from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 23 14:13:22 2001 fANKDLH12471 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:13:21 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:13:13 - Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane I'm sorry, I just reread this, and you are asking about the No.2. Lie-Nielsen is the only place I have found where you can get a No.2 size bench plane. A No.2 would probably be better for getting down to final dimensions, not so good at starting to rough plane raw strips. Depending on how good a No.2 is at getting to final dimensions, perhaps a No.4 or a No.3 and a No.2 would be the only planes you would need. If I ever get a No.2 size, I'll let you know if it is good for final dimensions.Darryl The Garrett-Wade Stanley No.3 is $52.00. The Lie-Nielsen No.3 is $275.00. I'm sure the Lie-Nielsen is well worth the price, it is based on the Stanley Bedrock series, but some people might need to conserve on tool purchases.Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at: http://www.lie-nielsen.comThey have a new No. 3 looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm thinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don I'm sorry, I just reread this, and you are asking about the No.2. Lie-Nielsen isthe only place I have found where you can get a No.2 size bench plane. A No.2would probably be better for getting down to final dimensions, not so good atstarting to rough plane raw strips. Depending on how good a No.2 is atgetting to final dimensions, perhaps a No.4 or a No.3 and a No.2 would be theonly planes you would need. If I ever get a No.2 size, I'll let you know if it isgood for final dimensions.Darryl The Garrett-Wade Stanley No.3 is$52.00. The Lie-Nielsen No.3 is $275.00. I'm sure the Lie-Nielsen is well worththe price, it is based on the Stanley Bedrock series, but some people mightneed to conserve on tool purchases.Darryl Hayashida Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at: http://www.lie-nielsen.com Theyhave a new No. 3 looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm thinkingabout getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 23 14:23:53 2001 fANKNpH12895 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:23:51 -0600 Nov 2001 12:23:46 PST Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu i've got to have a No.1. what is everyone's opinionon mag-bronze v.s. ductile iron? timothy --- Don Schneider wrote: Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at: http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'mthinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from tfbinn@mindspring.com Fri Nov 23 14:44:32 2001 fANKiVH13314 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:44:31 -0600 helo=7yjg501) id 167NBO-000152-00; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:44:23 -0500 Subject: re:stripping guides and gloves John,Are the Pac Bay guides the CXBG boat guide? And where are you gettingthem?I've looked all over and can't find any except the hi-tech looking Pac Baystrippers found on plastic rods.Winston from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 23 14:48:59 2001 fANKmxH13536 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:48:59 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:48:43 - Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Iron will stand up better than bronze scraping against steel forms, mybronze 212 scraper needs regrooving every year or so. But check the Lie-Nielsen web page again. The No.1 is only made in bronze.Darryl i've got to have a No.1. what is everyone's opinionon mag-bronze v.s. ductile iron? timothy Ironwill stand up better than bronze scraping against steel forms, my bronze212 scraper needs regrooving every year or so. But check the Lie-Nielsen web page again. The No.1 is only made inbronze.Darryl i've got to have a from homes-sold@home.com Fri Nov 23 14:49:57 2001 fANKnuH13634 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:49:56 -0600 femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:49:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Timothy,The Bronze Iron are a little heavier than the Ductile Iron. I think the No.1 only comes in BI. I'm going to get either a No.1 or 2. Be interested inwhy you have chosen the No.1.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane i've got to have a No.1. what is everyone's opinionon mag-bronze v.s. ductile iron? timothy --- Don Schneider wrote: Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at:http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'mthinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Nov 23 14:57:07 2001 fANKv6H14027 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:57:06 -0600 Subject: Re: stripping guides and gloves The ones I've used are by Perfection, not Pac Bay. They are the chromeboat guides with a TiC coating. They look very traditional as strippers, but I don't know how well the coating wears. Angler's Workshop sells them for around $3.00. --Rich from homes-sold@home.com Fri Nov 23 15:18:10 2001 fANLIAH14472 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:18:10 -0600 femail15.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:18:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane I called Lie-Nielsen and ask if they had any intentions of making the No. 1in Ductile Iron. Answer: No Also ask if they could/would groove any of the Bench Planes. Said they neverhave but will look in to it and let me know. Question: Would you groove oneof these and if so, which one and how much?Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane i've got to have a No.1. what is everyone's opinionon mag-bronze v.s. ductile iron? timothy --- Don Schneider wrote: Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at:http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'mthinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 23 15:32:25 2001 fANLWPH14985 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:32:25 -0600 Nov 2001 13:32:24 PST Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane "rod 'akers" i don't have any grooved planes and have no plans togroove a plane. i am just not sold on grooving. that'sjust my opinion. i hold no bad feeling toward thegroovy sort. timothy --- Don Schneider wrote: I called Lie-Nielsen and ask if they had anyintentions of making the No. 1in Ductile Iron. Answer: No Also ask if they could/would groove any of the BenchPlanes. Said they neverhave but will look in to it and let me know.Question: Would you groove oneof these and if so, which one and how much?Don----- Original Message ----- From: "timothy troester" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane i've got to have a No.1. what is everyone's opinionon mag-bronze v.s. ductile iron? timothy --- Don Schneider wrote: Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at:http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'm thinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think? Don ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting,just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from pohl@earthlink.net Fri Nov 23 16:03:26 2001 fANM3LH15531 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:03:21 -0600 helo=pohl) id 167OPj-0000hw-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:03:15 -0800 Subject: buying a Plane I need to buy a record 9 1/2 plane. Who has the best prices online? Theplane does comes with a blade but I want an extra. Do I have to get a bladespecifically made for this plane or do blades fit a bunch of differentplanes and I just need to know the size? Thanks, Mark from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 23 17:53:49 2001 fANNrmH16807 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:53:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Stripper Guides I doubt that the weight of one stripping guide, as over against another, ismuch of a condsideration. Increases in weight become very detrimental,however, farther out on the rod. Beautiful agate and agatine stripper guides are readily available, and I usethem quite regularly. Unfortunately, however, the frames are far too largeand clunky in proportion to the rod. Rods of 7' 6" and longer seem toaccept these large dimensions somewhat better. If you are accustomed to shooting line, you would want an agate stripper ofabout 10mm, but on a rod of 7 feet or smaller, the frame on an agate guidethis size just doen't look right. The thing that really disappoints me about all this is that these framesdon't HAVE TO be so large--apparently it's just the way the manufacturershappen to be set up at present. I have tried on two or three occasions toget our major distributor to see if he could have any influence, but alas...\. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Stripper Guides What are the different types of stripper guides used by variousbuilders?Are there weight considerations? I like the looks of a large snake guideused in the place of a stripper guide, are there specific reasons whythis should not be done? Would it cause too much line slap? I really do not like the clunky heavy footed stripper guides that aregenerally available today. I like the looks of the tiny jeweled pieces that were used in the pastand have been revived and are being used by some now, but it seems thesize of these would be restrictive for good line control? Anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 23 18:18:18 2001 fAO0IIH17198 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:18:18 -0600 Subject: Re: gloves Hal, No gloves!! I protect my hands, when I can, by being careful.When I am not careful, I often pay the price. But, I never needed to makethe same mistake more than two or three hundred times before I learned.Nevertheless, no gloves!! (I also don't care to drive my car with a blindfold!) cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: gloves Hal, I never wear gloves while planing. Justlucky, I guess.Harry HalManas@aol.com wrote: Do any of you wear gloves to protect yourhand when planing? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Nov 23 18:40:25 2001 fAO0eOH17667 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:40:24 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:39:53 -0800 Rodmakers Subject: Re: gloves WILLIAM HARMS wrote: No gloves!! I protect my hands, when I can, by being careful.(I also don't care to drive my car with a blindfold!) Hal, Bill... I probably should explain my earlier post. Even the thinnnest latexgloves like the proctologist wears prevent a great deal of tactile sensation.I suspect that's what Bill meant when he said he didn't drive a car with ablindfold on. I don't know how to say this without sounding like I'mbragging, so I'll just plunge forward. I can really _feel_ what's going on asI'm planing. If the strips are a thousandth above the form, I can feel that.If the strip slips as I'm planing, I feel it, and know that it's either timeto sharpen or to back the plane blade up a little. If there is a bump at anode, I can feel it better than I can see it. If the grain is tearing at thenode, I feel it, not just see it. To enhance that sense of feel, I wear noglove or any kind of protection on either hand. My hands aren't as tough as Channer's, no question. In fact, they aresoft as ladies hands. I don't even wear gloves when splitting. Yes, I getsome cuts and splinters, but no one ever said making rods was pain free.Again, I like being able to _feel_ what's going on. I did have a problemabout two culms ago when I sliced my thumb pretty good and got blood alloverthe bamboo. But blood doesn't soak into the enamel very well, so nothingwaslost. [:-)] I just got a beveller a few weeks ago, and I did wear finger cots whileoperating it. And I wear heavy gloves while flaming because the cane getstoohot to handle. But those are about the only times I conceed the need forgloves. Even though I constantly warn beginners in my articles that bamboo willcut you in a hundred different ways, I'd suggest that you wear gloves only aslittle as you feel is necessary for safety. Not from a macho standpoint - "BeTough!", but from a touchy, feely perspective. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bydesign@cfw.com Fri Nov 23 18:57:11 2001 fAO0v8H18160 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:57:09 -0600 0500 Subject: Angler's Journal So I filled out the online form and it was returned. I called and thenumber is not in service. Is that magazine still being published?-EdEngle's column on rod makers was always good. Rich Young from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 23 19:24:41 2001 fAO1OfH18605 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:24:41 -0600 helo=default) id 167RYa-0000lx-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:24:37 -0500 Subject: Re:gloves Me, three. Way back in '09 when I used to plane on the forms, I never diduse gloves. The finger cots were good for holding the strip in postion inthe forms with less finger pressure. I rarely cut myself, and onlyoccasionally got splinters. The only time I use gloves now is when I'mroughing with the power beveller. I've completely shredded gloves in thismanner, despite trying my best to keep a good grip. M-D Me too! I use rubber finger tips that you can get at office max. They allow me togrip the cane better than gloves when I'm planing. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 23 19:55:39 2001 fAO1tbH19051 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:55:37 -0600 Subject: RE: Angler's Journal I think it is defunct. I paid for a year a while back, got two issues (theEden Cane and Winston cane columns) and received no more. I tried once toget them, and I had no reply.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Angler's Journal So I filled out the online form and it was returned. I called and thenumber is not in service. Is that magazine still being published?-EdEngle's column on rod makers was always good. Rich Young from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Nov 23 19:58:51 2001 fAO1woH19252 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:58:50 -0600 (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: buying a Plane Hi Mark. I just got one. I don't know if anyone has a significantly better price onthose planes (I haven't noticed over the last year or so that I have beenlooking). However, I got mine from the folks at Wagner Rods. They havereally gone the extra mile to set me up right. You may find a cheaper deal(maybe), but I would give my money to a good reputable rod making outfitlike them as opposed to saving a few bucks. They can even set you up with aHock blade to match (watch out! those Hock blades have the slots in theback side only, so don't send them back when you open the package and don'tsee them like on the Record blade, and I don't want to talk about it...). Good luck. Jason On 11/23/01 2:58 PM, "Mark & Kathy Pohl" wrote: I need to buy a record 9 1/2 plane. Who has the best prices online? Theplane does comes with a blade but I want an extra. Do I have to get a bladespecifically made for this plane or do blades fit a bunch of differentplanes and I just need to know the size? Thanks, Mark from grnmtrods@outdrs.net Fri Nov 23 20:06:24 2001 fAO26JH19547 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:06:19 -0600 Subject: Question of the day Hello everyone, I have a friend who would like an answer to a problem he has had. The question is ,after some of his old rods have been sitting around = well as they used to ??????? If they,infact have gone south on him,is there any way to restore =them????? Best, Jim/Vermont Hello everyone, I have a friend who would like an = problem he has had. The question is ,after some of his old = have been sitting around for a few years ,why have the lost there = ability to cast as well as they used to ??????? If they,infact have gone south on = way to restore them????? Best, Jim/Vermont from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 23 20:18:57 2001 fAO2IvH19818 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:18:57 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108Netscape6/6.0 Subject: Re: Question of the day Jim, Of the two answers with the highest probability, I lean toward a change in his casting style. This would account for his feeling that the rods had changed in _their_ performance. He is faced with several options: the easiest being to part with the rods. The other high-probability is that the rods have absorbed moisture and need to be dried out. This would depend on the conditions of storage.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ james christman wrote: Hello everyone, I have a friend who would like an answer to a problem he has had. The question is ,after some of his old rods have been sitting around well as they used to ??????? If they,infact have gone south on him,is there any way to restorethem????? Best, Jim/Vermont -- > from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Nov 23 20:22:57 2001 Received: from From: "Ted" , , "Rodmakers"References: Subject: Re: gloves Date: Fri, 23 Nov MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 teekay35@interlynx.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Youcan also "hear" the sound your plane makes when every thing is right . . . orwrong! I empty the mouth of my plane after every pass. The shape of thechips tell you whats going on at the cutting edge. >Fromteekay35@interlynx.net Fri Nov 23 20:25:01 2001 Received: from From: "Ted" , References:Subject: Re: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I talked to Ed Engle not toolong ago. He told me that Anglers Journal has folded. >Fromchanner@frontier.net Fri Nov 23 22:21:57 2001 fAO4LvH21450 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:21:57 -0600 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:32:34 -0700 Subject: Re: gloves Yep, it "zips" when the blade is sharp!johnTed wrote: You can also "hear" the sound your plane makes when every thing is right . .. or wrong! I empty the mouth of my plane after every pass. The shapeofthe chips tell you whats going on at the cutting edge. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 01:27:45 2001 fAO7RiH23042 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:27:44 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Archiologists will find the bronze one intact. Tony At 12:23 PM 11/23/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: i've got to have a No.1. what is everyone's opinionon mag-bronze v.s. ductile iron? timothy --- Don Schneider wrote: Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at:http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'mthinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 01:43:29 2001 fAO7hRH23358 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:43:27 - , Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane I called Tom once and asked him a few things and asked why some planes are not offered in bronze. I have a boat on a mooring near the sea and although it shouldn't matter I like the idea of bronze planes for that work and I like them anyhow.Tom says the bronze and iron molds for the same tool are different because bronze and iron cool to different volumes compared with the molten metal you begin with which makes sense so every model needs it's own molds.Also, and I COULD be wrong here so it's worth checking if you want the right answer but I think the way the different metal tools are finished varies and bronze in the larger planes is problematical. Tony At 01:18 PM 11/23/01 -0800, Don Schneider wrote: I called Lie-Nielsen and ask if they had any intentions of making the No. 1in Ductile Iron. Answer: No Also ask if they could/would groove any of the Bench Planes. Said theyneverhave but will look in to it and let me know. Question: Would you groove oneof these and if so, which one and how much?Don----- Original Message -----From: "timothy troester" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane i've got to have a No.1. what is everyone's opinionon mag-bronze v.s. ductile iron? timothy --- Don Schneider wrote: Darryl,Check out the Lie-Nielsen Bench Planes at:http://www.lie-nielsen.com They have a new No. 3looks the same as the No. 2 but slightly larger. I'mthinking about getting the No. 2. What do you think?Don ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1/*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 01:43:33 2001 fAO7hRH23359 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:43:27 - Subject: Re: gloves That's right. Tools talk to you just like tennis racquets and engines when you use them a lot. Tony At 09:24 PM 11/23/01 -0700, channer wrote: Yep, it "zips" when the blade is sharp!johnTed wrote: You can also "hear" the sound your plane makes when every thing is right . . . or wrong! I empty the mouth of my plane after every pass. The shapeofthe chips tell you whats going on at the cutting edge. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Christmas Gift Tips Avoid at any cost Christmas crackers with the label: Made in Afghanistan /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Nov 24 01:48:16 2001 fAO7mGH23739 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:48:16 - for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:48:04 - Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane In normal use I can see the bronze being no differeent than the iron - but normal use means the sole of the planes are in contact with wood. In our use the sole being dragged along a steel form over and over again isn't exactly normal for a plane..Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/23/01 1:03:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes: actually i was cosidering a block plane. lie-nielseninsists that the bronze will holup the same as theiron, that the bronze is a special bronze. i amskeptical. timothy Innormal use I can see the bronze being no differeent than the iron - butnormal use means the sole of the planes are in contact with wood. In our usethe sole being dragged along a steel form over and over again isn't exactlynormal for a plane..Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/23/01 1:03:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com writes:actually i was cosidering a blockplane. lie-nielseninsists that the bronze will holup the same as theiron, that the bronze is a special bronze. i am from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Nov 24 04:27:56 2001 fAOARtH24829 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 04:27:55 - 24 Nov 2001 02:27:55 PST Subject: Re: gloves ,HalManas@aol.com, Rodmakers --- Ted wrote: You can also "hear" the sound your plane makes whenevery thing is right . .. or wrong! I empty the mouth of my plane afterevery pass. The shape ofthe chips tell you whats going on at the cuttingedge. that's right but it's hard to hear with your gloveson...i mean with my mouth full...or was it...now i'mmixed up! can i smoke my pipe or not!! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 24 05:41:05 2001 fAOBf4H25449 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 05:41:05 - Subject: dressing ferrule Caught a burr on the inside of a female ferrule. My solution was to keepgoing, get the male stuck, get impatient and end up wrecking the wholeferrule. Not recommended. Has anyone else had this problem? How do you solve this? Regards, Steve from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Nov 24 06:00:59 2001 fAOC0vH25747 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:00:57 - fAOC0lI29477; Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane That bloody Lie-Nielsen website ought to be out of bounds!! That bloody Lie-Nielsen website ought = bounds!! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 06:11:21 2001 fAOCBJH25996 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:11:20 - Subject: bronze/iron Anybody have an idea about the wearing differences between the bronzebody of an LN tool compares with one of his iron bodied ones when used on steel forms? You'd think the iron would wear better but bronze can be pretty hardwearing. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "640K ought to be enough for anybody. "- Bill Gates (1955-Still here), in 1981/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 06:26:40 2001 fAOCQcH26286 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:26:38 - Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane Peter,IMHO All porn sites should be removed [:-)] but I have to admit the LN Low Angle Jack Plane makes be pretty damned excited and wobbly at the knees.I shouldn't admit to this but I used one recently on some very figured wood and it was sensational.It was this plane that had me making a call to LN to see if they'd make one in both metals. I wouldn't recommend this plane for bamboo work but gee it's a nice cabinet makers plane. Tony At 11:00 PM 11/24/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: That bloody Lie-Nielsen website ought to be out of bounds!! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 06:30:14 2001 fAOCU8H26476 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:30:09 - Subject: Re: Source for a No.3 Bench Plane I just took a look at the LN site for the first time in a while. Oooooh arrrrrh owwwwww. I've just got to get me one of those #8 fore planesMmmmmm. Tony At 11:00 PM 11/24/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: That bloody Lie-Nielsen website ought to be out of bounds!! / from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Nov 24 07:02:05 2001 fAOD25H26863 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 07:02:05 - id 167cRY-0003Ho-00 for Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:02:04 -0500 Subject: Non-rodmaking--need help from structural/archetectural engineer Guys,If anyone is an engineer and knows about 'engineered beams' could you =please contact me privately?Thanks,Mike Guys,If anyone is an engineer and knows = 'engineered beams' could you please contact me privately?Thanks,Mike from harms1@pa.net Sat Nov 24 08:04:41 2001 fAOE4eH27400 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:04:40 - Subject: Re: Stripper Guides Mike, Well, I'm not a machinist at all. Still, I doubt very much that an existingframe with the agate mounted can be altered. To my eye, however, the problem with these stripping guides is not so muchthe diameter of the wire that is used (though I do not see why this, too,could not be reduced). The problem seems to be more a matter of theoveralldimensions of the frame. They just appear to be shaped with curves thatareof too great a radius, and the agate stands much higher off the cane than itneeds to. Recently, I finished a Garrison #201, and Hoagy Charmichael donated anabsolutely gorgeous agate guide. The agate itself appears to be 10mm, butthe frame is delicate and small, lying close to the cane. There is noreason why current manufacturers of these guides cannot do the same. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stripper Guides I wonder if it would be possible to skinny down a factory agate framewithout causing any breakage prioblems.What do you think, Bill?Heck, if someone has an old one to toss my way, I'll give it a shot in theshop, no guarantee of the result but the original owner would get it back to play with--just wondering.Mike----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 6:52 PMSubject: Re: Stripper Guides from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 24 08:58:07 2001 fAOEw0H29810 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:58:00 - helo=default) id 167eFj-00006e-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:58:00 -0500 Subject: Re: dressing ferrule Yeah, I've done it. Quite the pisser, isn't it? I use a male lap and 1000grit garnet lapping compound on the inside of the female. It doesn't takemuch to get rid of the burr. You can also take a small metal rod, wood, etc., split it to hold a smallwith of sandpaper, wrap the sandpaper around the bar until you had a snugfit inside the female, then turn it by hand until smooth. The way to avoid such a thing in the first place is don't force the ferruleswhile they are still tight. Go only as deep as they will comfortably go,then remove and sand some more on the male. M-D Caught a burr on the inside of a female ferrule. My solution was to keepgoing, get the male stuck, get impatient and end up wrecking the wholeferrule. Not recommended. Has anyone else had this problem? How do you solve this? Regards, Steve from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Nov 24 09:21:56 2001 fAOFLoH00323 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:21:50 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Reel seat inserts Guys,I have a question. I just got some of those Box Elder blanks fromEamon(thanks again Eamon!) and I was wondering how I should proceed from here. Iassume Ishould let them air dry for 6 months to a year?? I plan on using Bob'sPlexiglasstabilization method. Should I wax both the ends with Paraffin wax??Has anyone tried kiln drying their blanks in their heat gun rod oven?Wouldn't it work just as well as air curing?? Heat + air flow, seems like itshouldwork eh??? Or should I just wait it out?Any ideas?? from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 24 09:57:40 2001 fAOFvdH00958 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:57:39 -0600 helo=default) id 167fBL-0004tp-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:57:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Reel seat inserts Shawn, Excellent wood from Eamon, huh? I paraffined the end grain, and have themsitting out. Don't know how long it will take, but when sufficiently dry Iwill send them out to be stabilized. I don't think you could kiln dry them well enough with anything that any ofus has for an oven. Kiln drying is a very delicate and complex process, thatoccurs over a course of many days. I'm relying on what I've read in thisregard as it pertains to lumber. Smaller pieces certainly could be donequicker but I think the problem is one of actually drying the wood at acontrolled rate, rather than simply trying to get rid of moisture, which, Ibelieve, would tend to check the wood, rendering it useless. Also, the firststep in kiln drying is to raise the relative humidity to 100% for severaldays, then, after complete saturation, begin the drying process. M-D Guys,I have a question. I just got some of those Box Elder blanks from Eamon (thanks again Eamon!) and I was wondering how I should proceed from here. I assume I should let them air dry for 6 months to a year?? I plan on using Bob's Plexiglas stabilization method. Should I wax both the ends with Paraffin wax??Has anyone tried kiln drying their blanks in their heat gun rod oven? Wouldn't it work just as well as air curing?? Heat + air flow, seems like it should work eh??? Or should I just wait it out?Any ideas?? from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 24 10:23:49 2001 fAOGNhH01331 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:23:43 -0600 Subject: RE: Reel seat inserts Hi M-D:The wood from Eamon Lee was spectacular. I am planning on sending themoutto Wood Stabilizers, but I have yet to call them to find out how they preferthe wood treated before it gets there. Does anyone on the list know? Also,if I use the parafin, should I cut them down into blanks first? And if so,how do you know when they are ready?Thanks,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reel seat inserts Shawn, Excellent wood from Eamon, huh? I paraffined the end grain, and have themsitting out. Don't know how long it will take, but when sufficiently dry Iwill send them out to be stabilized. from robertgkope@home.com Sat Nov 24 11:10:07 2001 fAOHA6H02024 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:10:07 - femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:10:06 -0800 Subject: Re: bronze/iron Tony has a good point here. Often a softer metal will wear better incontact with a harder metal than a hard metal will. That's why bearings areoften made of bronze. If the surface of your forms is smooth, the bronzemay wear better than iron. However, if the surface of your forms getsgougedup it could really rip up the sole of a bronze plane. -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: bronze/iron Anybody have an idea about the wearing differences between the bronzebodyof an LN tool compares with one of his iron bodied ones when used on steelforms? You'd think the iron would wear better but bronze can be pretty hard wearing. Tony from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Nov 24 11:13:14 2001 fAOHDDH02195 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:13:13 -0600 fAOHD8815474 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:13:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Reel seat inserts I just called a near by "Wood Specialties" shop about drying the Burl. Theytoldme to bring it up and they would dry it with some other burl that they wouldbedrying in a controlled environment.Said it would take about two months. Will check into it and post the results.Will not be able to get it up there till Wednesday.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi M-D:The wood from Eamon Lee was spectacular. I am planning on sending themoutto Wood Stabilizers, but I have yet to call them to find out how they preferthe wood treated before it gets there. Does anyone on the list know? Also,if I use the parafin, should I cut them down into blanks first? And if so,how do you know when they are ready?Thanks,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Reel seat inserts Shawn, Excellent wood from Eamon, huh? I paraffined the end grain, and have themsitting out. Don't know how long it will take, but when sufficiently dry Iwill send them out to be stabilized. from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Nov 24 11:28:36 2001 fAOHSVH02548 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:28:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Clamps for nodeless Mike, I use 3 Accu medium binder clips per splice. They are cheap and do the job. I usually leave them on for about 24 hours. The three provide completecoverage on my 5 degree splice joints. Mark Cole Mike, I use 3 Accu medium binder clips per splice. They are cheap and do thejob. I usually leave them on for about 24 hours. The three provide completecoverage on my 5 degree splice joints. Mark Cole from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Sat Nov 24 13:10:32 2001 fAOJAQH03582 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:10:26 - Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:10:22 PST Subject: RE: gloves ,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu The OSH I mentioned stands for Orchard Supply &Hardware, a chain store we have here in the states.The gloves are called "Cut" gloves and sold under theStanley brand name but I seen them sold under a fewother names as well. They're probably made in China orIndia. They're simple white canvas mule gloves thathave been dipped in a course rubber coating. Not to beconfused with the chemical resistant gloves that alsorubber. They are also great for gripping things like astuck pair of ferrules and such. Regards,Chris --- "Roberts, Michael"wrote: Hi Hal,I think OSH stands for OccupationalSafety and Health. And as bloody right I do! Like alot of the other guys, I learned to do that the hardway : )Mike -----Original Message----- All, Do any of you wear gloves to protect your handwhen planing? I usedto get sliced up quite a bit and I use some leatherwork gloves now, but Iremember reading in a post not long ago about somerubber gloves from an OSHstore. I don't know what an OSH store is so I'mjust wondering what you use Hal __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Nov 24 13:13:21 2001 fAOJDKH03765 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:13:20 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4171. . Clean. Processed in 0.362027 secs); 24 Nov 200119:02:32 -0000 Subject: Payne #96 6 1/2' 2/2 #4 Taper Hi list, I just miked a friends Payne #96 6 1/2' 2pc. 4wt. WOW! Veryaccurate flat to flat dimensions. Nice rod with a fast DF action. Hereare the dimensions. Varnish already deducted. Best, MartyTip Butt00 .066" .161"05 .075 .17110 .092 .18115 .104 .20520 .120 .22325 .131 .23930 .140 .263 start of grip35 .153 .26339 .157 .263 Guide spacing from tip top and tip of female ferrule5 1/2" 3"11 3/4" 12" (stripper)18 1/2"25 5/8"33 1/4" from Troutgetter@aol.com Sat Nov 24 13:38:09 2001 fAOJc8H04204 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:38:08 -0600 Subject: Re: bronze/iron In a message dated 11/24/2001 4:11:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: Anybody have an idea about the wearing differences between the bronzebody of an LN tool compares with one of his iron bodied ones when used on steel forms? Tony,I can't speak for others but, mine shows no wear on the sole after 5 years. The only noticable 'wear' is on the side where my fingers keep it shiny. This is probably because the only use it really gets is at the start of final planing before the strips are close to final dimension, and it is only used to remove the enamel and flatten the last humps at the nodes. The solenever really comes in contact with the forms. Mike Shay Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ In a message dated11/24/2001 4:11:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.auwrites: Anybody have an ideaabout the wearing differences between the bronze body of an LN tool compares with one of his iron bodied ones when used on steel forms? Tony,I can't speak for others but, mine shows no wear on the sole after 5 years.The only noticable 'wear' is on the side where my fingers keep it shiny. This isprobably because the only use it really gets is at the start of final planingbefore the strips are close to final dimension, and it is only used to removethe enamel and flatten the last humps at the nodes. The sole never reallycomes in contact with the forms. Mike Shay Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 24 13:47:55 2001 fAOJlsH04493 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:47:54 -0600 helo=default) id 167imH-0004na-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:47:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Reel seat inserts Bob, On their web site they specify the preferred moisture content, though Ican't remember what it is. Maybe something like 12% - 15%? They do have alittle section devoted to this, though.I didn't cut mine up, just melted the paraffin then poured it into a narrowpan I made from some thin plastic, then dunked the whole edge into itseveral times. The paraffin sets up quickly in the pan, so haste is a must.I have no idea how to tell when they are ready, except to use a moisturemeter. M-D Hi M-D:The wood from Eamon Lee was spectacular. I am planning on sending themoutto Wood Stabilizers, but I have yet to call them to find out how they prefer the wood treated before it gets there. Does anyone on the list know? Also,if I use the parafin, should I cut them down into blanks first? And if so,how do you know when they are ready?Thanks,Bob from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 24 14:00:04 2001 fAOJxxH04819 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:59:59 -0600 helo=default) id 167ixy-0001SJ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:59:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Payne #96 6 1/2' 2/2 #4 Taper Marty, Thanks! This makes the third 96 for which I have the measurements. Thefirsttwo were identical, though coming from two different rods. Yours isdifferent, still yet, both in terms of the taper and the guide spacing. Thefirst 20" is nearly identical, but everything changes after that. Any ideaof the vintage of this rod? M-D Hi list, I just miked a friends Payne #96 6 1/2' 2pc. 4wt. WOW! Veryaccurate flat to flat dimensions. Nice rod with a fast DF action. Hereare the dimensions. Varnish already deducted. Best, Marty from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Nov 24 14:07:44 2001 fAOK7hH05092 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:07:44 - Sat, 3 Nov 2001 08:58:30 +0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: USPS Bret,I recently took delvery of a package from Goldenwitch to here in the UK.Normal delivery time from the US to the UK is 6 to 10 days at maximum.This last package took over 15 days to get here.I suspect it has something to do with the authorities and the Bin Ladenmess.........tight lines........Paul Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Is anyone experiencing sloooooooow mail service. I mailed outsomething to a list member over a week ago and he has still notreceived it. I know I did get a package today that took 11 days fromPA to MI but is it just me?Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 24 14:41:46 2001 fAOKfkH05701 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:41:46 -0600 helo=default) id 167jcO-0002OT-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:41:45 -0500 Subject: Re: USPS Well, Paul. You sent this message on the third of November, and today is the24th. Sounds as though one is as fast as the other, huh? M-D Subject: Re: USPS Bret,I recently took delvery of a package from Goldenwitch to here in the UK.Normal delivery time from the US to the UK is 6 to 10 days at maximum.This last package took over 15 days to get here.I suspect it has something to do with the authorities and the Bin Ladenmess.........tight lines........Paul Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Is anyone experiencing sloooooooow mail service. I mailed outsomething to a list member over a week ago and he has still notreceived it. I know I did get a package today that took 11 days fromPA to MI but is it just me?Bret (www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html) from splitcane@home.com Sat Nov 24 15:05:52 2001 fAOL5qH06140 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:05:52 - ;Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:05:51 -0800 ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Hi Adam, I agree with you on some points, but disagree on others... There are new things created all the time, but most are trailers on theexisting... A person has the total right to share or not to share, but do just that anddo not cross the line... As far as hollow building I'm on a good line of working it out and thatbrings up the best reason to share. By sharing each craftsmen dose nothaveto reinvent the wheel and the trade is better off in general... Take Care, Dave ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Dave, While there is nothing new under the sun, there are those that cut a path disperse what they learned to whom they choose. I for one have no problem with a maker who wishes to keep his tapers tohimself. We all need to remember we work for ourselves and not for othermakers. If we share our R&D that is a personel choice. Even master chefs do not share all of their methods. Jim is not a member of the list and he is a very helpful maker and has been a rodmaker since the 70's. Jim did not learn hollow building from Winstonand Stoner, Powell nor from Per Brandin. In fact he shared with me that Per Brandin told Jim to not write an article on his hollow building techniquebecause he could tell from the way the rod felt he was doing what Per was in terms of hollow building. Jim worked it out and I bet most of us could to. Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Dave Collyer Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Hello All... I'm a little confused here and maybe someone could enlighten me on thissubject... Jim Reames tapers are completely original and are not at least in part based on vintage/modern tapers/methods at all? Dose Jim Reams belong to the list? It would make for some interesting exchanges on the list to hear his views personally... Take Care, Dave from wkifer@harborside.com Sat Nov 24 16:01:38 2001 fAOM1cH07005 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:01:38 - 0000 Subject: All, I have changed service providers and email address. Tony S, I may now be reached at the above address. Wayne Kifer from bh887@lafn.org Sat Nov 24 16:01:45 2001 fAOM1iH07016 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:01:44 - Subject: Re: dressing ferrule Seems like Sam Adams time to me! Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: dressing ferrule Caught a burr on the inside of a female ferrule. My solution was to keepgoing, get the male stuck, get impatient and end up wrecking the wholeferrule. Not recommended. Has anyone else had this problem? How do you solve this? Regards, Steve from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Nov 24 16:10:40 2001 fAOMAdH07508 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:10:39 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4171. . Clean. Processed in 1.195304 secs); 24 Nov 200122:10:39 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Payne #96 6 1/2' 2/2 #4 Taper --------------48D585B0C2AFB05D948729C3 Hi Jim, The format seems to have gotten "messed Up" en route to you. Iadjusted it so see if it makes more sense to you. Step at the ferrule is.004". If it's still confusing let me know. MartyJim Bureau wrote: Hello Marty: I'm interested in this taper, but I'm confused about the buttdemensions, could you possibly relist the taper showing the actualdenensions of the butt and also show the inches where the demensionstake place. I'm good up to 39 inches which is 1/2 the rod and .157 butI'm mixed up where you go from there. Is there some kind of a largestep increase at the ferrule and beyond? Is there a step increase atthe ferrule of .014 ? Thanks Jim>From:"Marty D. aka \"none" Subject: Payne #96 6 1/2' 2/2 #4 TaperDate: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:09:00 - 0500 Hi list, I just miked a friends Payne #96 6 1/2' 2pc. 4wt. WOW! Veryaccurate flat to flat dimensions. Nice rod with a fast DF action. Here are the dimensions. Varnish already deducted. Best, MartyTip Butt00 .066" .161"05 .075 .17110 .092 .18115 .104 .20520 .120 .22325 .131 .23930 .140 .263 start of grip35 .153 .26339 .157 .263 Guide spacing from tip top and tip of female ferrule Tip Butt 5 1/2" 3"11 3/4" 12" (stripper)18 1/2"25 5/8"33 1/4" -----------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------48D585B0C2AFB05D948729C3 Hi Jim, The format seems to have gotten "messed Up" en route to you. Iadjusted it so see if it makes more sense to you. Step at the ferrule is Jim Bureau wrote: Hello Marty: demensions, could you possibly relist the taper showing the actualdenensionsof the butt and also show the inches where the demensions take place. I'mgood up to 39 inches which is 1/2 the rod and .157 but I'm mixed up whereyou go from there. Is there some kind of a large step increase at the ferruleand beyond? Is there a step increase at the ferrule of .014 ? Thanks Subject: Payne #96 6 1/2' 2/2 #4 TaperDate: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:09:00 - 0500 Hi list, I just miked a friends Payne #96 6 1/2' 2pc. 4wt. WOW! Veryaccurate flat to flat dimensions. Nice rod with a fast DF action.Hereare the dimensions. Varnish already deducted. Best, Marty Butt .161" .171 .181 .205 .223 .239 .263 start of grip .263 .263 Guide spacing from tip top and tip of female ferrule Butt 3" 12" (stripper) Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------48D585B0C2AFB05D948729C3-- from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 24 18:15:59 2001 fAP0FrH08780 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:15:53 - Subject: Re: dressing ferrule All, I was actually a little too depressed at the time for a Sam Adams. It isheartening to know that I am in good company with this error. I wastired at the time and probably shouldn't have been working on rods. Itseems I make the mistakes when I am tired. Thanks All, Steve Lee Freeman wrote: Seems like Sam Adams time to me! from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 24 18:53:46 2001 fAP0riH09295 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:53:45 - "Chris Raine" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: RE: Reames 8 ft taper Dave and Adam:A few thoughts...I think that Mr. Reames or anyone else has the perfect right to work bythemselves and not share. Their not sharing should not be seen as a slap inthe face. These makers have every right to protect their trade secrets.Justbecause many on this list share their hard work does not mean we shouldexpect anyone else to. We are the exception, not the rule. For some (notme), making rods is their livelihood. In the cut throat world of making aliving from rod making, I think one could use every edge they can get ormaintain. What master in any other field shares their hard work so openly,short of having a tv show contract or something? I recieved a taper last week that reminded me of what you aluded to (Dave).I have a taper from a quite famous quad maker. I have made the rod formyself, and it is great. This guy does not share, and he makes that clear. Ihave no problem with that, or with keeping the taper a secret. Funny thingis, I have 2 Edwards tapers for different grade rods(the second came in lastweek) that are to the .001 or .002" the same rod! Isn't that a hoot? In mymind that is close enough to say that all three are the same. So much forproprietary tapers. As far as hollow building goes, I feel that my experiments with using BobMilward's charts are showing me that he is pretty close to being correct.The problem I am having in deciding for good on this is that if I use theHand Mill to flute the rods, I have a choice of cutter sizes. If I hollowthem in a Powell type way, that also removes a different amount of cane.TheMilward charts are based on wall thickness and do not really account for howmuch is removed. Does that make sense? I feel the wall thicknesses heprescribes align themselves well with the percentages of strength and weightthat he proposes. I would highly recommend you get that chart as a goodprimer. I am not the expert, but I bet that the hollow building guys are nothappy that the secret is out. (Personally, I have not found the hollowsections to be worth the effort until you get over 8'. I will use it to makethat perfect steelhead rod I have been looking to make, probably based on aYoung or Pezon et Michel taper for 8 wt.)Cordially,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Hi Adam, I agree with you on some points, but disagree on others... from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Nov 24 19:13:19 2001 fAP1DIH09672 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:13:18 - helo=computer) id 167nr4-0003YV-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:13:10 -0500 Subject: Rod name. Has anyone heard the name "Senitor" used on a rod? A friend mentioned =it, without further info so...Any idea?Thanks, Mike Guys, Has anyone heard the name "Senitor" = Thanks,Mike from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 24 19:51:33 2001 fAP1pWH10212 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:51:32 - Subject: RE: Rod name. It appears to be an early H-I according to the Sinclair book. $6 in 1920s,red wraps with black trimming and red closely spaced intermediates.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: Rod name. Guys,Has anyone heard the name "Senitor" used on a rod? A friend mentioned it,without further info so...Any idea?Thanks, Mike to be an early H-I according to the Sinclair book. $6 in 1920s, red = black trimming and red closely spaced intermediates. = shafferSent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 8:13 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Rod =name.Guys, Has anyone heard the name "Senitor" = Mike from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Sat Nov 24 20:01:42 2001 fAP21eH10501 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:01:41 - Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:01:35 PST Subject: Re: Stripper Guides Have you looked at the Snake Brand agate stripperguides? I have a small supply from fairly recentstock. from the rod to the bottom of the nickelsilver ring is 3/32". This is less than the Pac BayTitanium which stand 4/32" and the Mildrum at 5/32"all in size 10mm. The ID of the agate is smaller thanthe others at 7/32" while both the Pac Bay and Mildrumare 10/32". I do see what you are saying about older stock, as Ihave a few old agate/agatines and some of them aremounted low in the saddle and ride just barely abovethe rod. I think the Snake Brand Agate strippers in BlackNickel finish are jewelry. They're beatiful on abamboo rod if you are searching for agate stripperguides and haven't tried these yet. Chris McDowellblitzenrods@yahoo.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Mike, Well, I'm not a machinist at all. Still, I doubtvery much that an existingframe with the agate mounted can be altered. To my eye, however, the problem with these strippingguides is not so muchthe diameter of the wire that is used (though I donot see why this, too,could not be reduced). The problem seems to be morea matter of the overalldimensions of the frame. They just appear to beshaped with curves that areof too great a radius, and the agate stands muchhigher off the cane than itneeds to. Recently, I finished a Garrison #201, and HoagyCharmichael donated anabsolutely gorgeous agate guide. The agate itselfappears to be 10mm, butthe frame is delicate and small, lying close to thecane. There is noreason why current manufacturers of these guidescannot do the same. ----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Shaffer" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 8:11 PMSubject: Re: Stripper Guides I wonder if it would be possible to skinny down a factory agate frame without causing any breakage prioblems.What do you think, Bill?Heck, if someone has an old one to toss my way, I'll give it a shot in the shop, no guarantee of the result but the original owner would get it backto play with--just wondering.Mike----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 6:52 PMSubject: Re: Stripper Guides __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Nov 24 20:12:10 2001 fAP2C9H10883 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:12:09 - for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:12:04 -0500 Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Eamon's Box Elder Burl. :))Just click this link too see it. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Thought you guys might want to take a look at a seat I made from = Eamon's Box Elder Burl. :))Just click this link too see it.www.homestead.com/= Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Nov 24 20:21:26 2001 fAP2LPH11290 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:21:25 -0600 0000 (63.228.45.24) Subject: Re: Reel seat inserts I've taken green wood and cut it into blanks for reel seats keeping them, alittle large for warping etc. In small pieces like this I put them on top ofmy hot water heater and let them stay there for a few months. You get afewrejects but most of them are ok for turning. works for me. Better thanwaxing and keeping for years to dry.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Reel seat inserts Guys,I have a question. I just got some of those Box Elder blanks from Eamon (thanks again Eamon!) and I was wondering how I should proceed from here. I assume I should let them air dry for 6 months to a year?? I plan on using Bob's Plexiglas stabilization method. Should I wax both the ends with Paraffin wax??Has anyone tried kiln drying their blanks in their heat gun rod oven? Wouldn't it work just as well as air curing?? Heat + air flow, seems like it should work eh??? Or should I just wait it out?Any ideas?? from martinrjensen@home.com Sat Nov 24 20:25:35 2001 fAP2PUH11515 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:25:30 - femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:25:25 -0800 Subject: RE: reel seat inserts That's an extremely good looking reel seat. I am looking forward tomaking some as good looking. Did you add a stabilizer to this? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Thought you guys might want to take a look at a seat I made from Eamon's Box Elder Burl. :))Just click this link too see it.www.homestead.com/bambooshop/seat.html Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Message BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} That's = good looking reel seat. I am looking forward to making some as good = you add a stabilizer to this? Jensen -----Original Message----- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = On Behalf Of Tony MillerSent: Saturday, November24, = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: = seat insertsThought you guys might want to take a look at a seat I made from = Eamon's Box Elder Burl. :))Just click this link too see it.www.homestead.com/= Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Nov 24 20:42:51 2001 fAP2gpH11938 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:42:51 - for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:42:49 -0500 Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Dried the wood in the kitchen oven at 200 for alot of hours.Then stabilized it after I cut it into a small block.Turned it down a little over size and stabilized again just to make =sure.Got a little warp in it, but turned it back out. It hasn't warped since =that.I have some other processes that helped it too.Box elder seems to be soft.Looked into it somewhere and found out Box elder is a really not a hard =wood. (where did I read that?) ( I think wood stabilizing Specialist =page) I get the feeling you could let the wood dry out for two years and it =would still be soft. (just the nature of the wood)I could be wrong.Has anyone ever dried box elder burl out to see how hard it gets?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Dried the wood in the kitchen oven at 200 for alot of hours.Then stabilized it after I cut it into a small block.Turned it down a little over size and stabilized again just to make = sure.Got a little warp in it, but turned it back out. It hasn't warped = that.I have some other processes that helped it too.Box elder seems to be soft.Looked into it somewhere and found out Box elder is a really not a = wood. (where did I read that?) ( I think wood stabilizing Specialist =page)any how, It turned out good. I get the feeling you could let the wood dry out for two years and = still be soft. (just the nature of the wood)I could be wrong.Has anyone ever dried box elder burl out to see how hard it =gets?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from rextutor@about.com Sat Nov 24 20:44:16 2001 fAP2iBH12088 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:44:11 - (NPlex 5.5.029) Subject: Re: Rod name. HI made a SenatorSign up fora free About Email account at http://About.com from martinrjensen@home.com Sat Nov 24 20:49:00 2001 fAP2mxH12367 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:48:59 - femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:48:59 -0800 Subject: RE: reel seat inserts Hum...Oven sounds like a good idea. I have some stabilizing liquid alsoI might soak it in. I soaked some maple in it and it seemed to darken ita bit though. I haven't made a reel seat out of it yet. I still have alot of reel seats left that I have to make rods for first. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Dried the wood in the kitchen oven at 200 for alot of hours.Then stabilized it after I cut it into a small block.Turned it down a little over size and stabilized again just to makesure.Got a little warp in it, but turned it back out. It hasn't warped sincethat.I have some other processes that helped it too.Box elder seems to be soft.Looked into it somewhere and found out Box elder is a really not a hardwood. (where did I read that?) ( I think wood stabilizing Specialistpage)any how, It turned out good. I get the feeling you could let the wood dry out for two years and itwould still be soft. (just the nature of the wood)I could be wrong.Has anyone ever dried box elder burl out to see how hard it gets?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Message BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} like a good idea. I have some stabilizing liquid also I might soak it = soaked some maple in it and it seemed to darken it a bit though. I = a reel seat out of it yet. I still have a lot of reel seats left that I = make rods for first. Jensen -----Original Message----- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = On Behalf Of Tony MillerSent: Saturday, November24, = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: = seat insertsDried the wood in the kitchen oven at 200 for alot of =hours.Then stabilized it after I cut it into a small block.Turned it down a little over size and stabilized again just to = sure.Got a little warp in it, but turned it back out. It hasn't warped = that.I have some other processes that helped it too.Box elder seems to be soft.Looked into it somewhere and found out Box elder is a really not = page)any how, It turned out good. I get the feeling you could let the wood dry out for two years = would still be soft. (just the nature of the wood)I could be wrong.Has anyone ever dried box elder burl out to see how hard it =gets?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from bob@downandacross.com Sat Nov 24 21:01:01 2001 fAP30xH12705 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:00:59 - Subject: RE: reel seat inserts A very nice insert. Great work as usual Tony.Bob-----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Thought you guys might want to take a look at a seat I made fromEamon's Box Elder Burl. :))Just click this link too see it.www.homestead.com/bambooshop/seat.htmlTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} A very = Great work as usual Tony.Bob MillerSent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 9:13 = insertsThought you guys might want to take a look at a seat I made from = Eamon's Box Elder Burl. :))Just click this link too see it.www.homestead.com/= Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 21:05:46 2001 fAP35iH12936 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:05:44 - "Adam Vigil" , "Chris Raine","Rodmakers" Subject: RE: Reames 8 ft taper In the past I've made comparisons between rod making and rock climbing. Partly because they are both things I've been in the case of rock climbing and currently rod making pretty passionate about and partly because both are individual pursuits where in most cases the results matter mainly to the person climbing/rod making and even though there are high standards to aim for enjoyment is had even if these standards are not achieved by the person. Except in the case of competition or the market place there is no actual judge to try to please. Tapers are a lot like rock routes. There are the standard "trade routes" every body climbs and are like a taper such as a para 15 for example, then there are the really nice routes that may require a little climbing to get to or are out of the way which may compare to a taper not as well known about but may be ideal for the job like a Dickerson 7614 or something but these are still classics.Then there are the new routes and these are like tapers currently used by makers who developed the taper. Now, in rock climbing it's an absolute sin to slam a bolt or piton into a route previously done without a bolt or piton and an unspeakable sin to do that closely to when the route has just been done.While the taper developer can't stop you using a taper he's let it be known he'd prefer you didn't use he can't actually stop you but there is such a thing as good manners and form and to just go ahead and use it anyhow especially as there are hundreds of tapers to use anyhow is the same as smashing the rock on a new route to make more more holds, slamming inbolts and pitons and then try to rename the route because it's not exactly the same as it was originally. Rock climbing has it's unwritten rules and so does rod making but there are plenty who go outside these rules but they aren't to be admired for it. Tony At 07:53 PM 11/24/01 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: Dave and Adam:A few thoughts...I think that Mr. Reames or anyone else has the perfect right to work bythemselves and not share. Their not sharing should not be seen as a slap inthe face. These makers have every right to protect their trade secrets.Just /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. "- Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527), "The Prince"/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Nov 24 21:11:34 2001 fAP3BVH13201 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:11:31 - "Adam Vigil" , "Chris Raine","Rodmakers" Subject: RE: Reames 8 ft taper Something I should have mentioned when I wrote this is altering a rock route is destructive while altering a taper is creative. Tony While the taper developer can't stop you using a taper he's let it be known he'd prefer you didn't use he can't actually stop you but there is such a thing as good manners and form and to just go ahead and use it anyhow especially as there are hundreds of tapers to use anyhow is the same as smashing the rock on a new route to make more more holds,slamming in bolts and pitons and then try to rename the route because it's not exactly the same as it was originally. Rock climbing has it's unwritten rules and so does rod making but there are plenty who go outside these rules but they aren't to be admired for it. Tony At 07:53 PM 11/24/01 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: Dave and Adam:A few thoughts...I think that Mr. Reames or anyone else has the perfect right to work bythemselves and not share. Their not sharing should not be seen as a slapinthe face. These makers have every right to protect their trade secrets.Just /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. "- Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527), "The Prince"/*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. "- Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527), "The Prince"/*************************************************************************/ from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Nov 24 21:18:53 2001 fAP3IqH13474 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:18:52 - for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:18:47 -0500 Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Man it's a nice little saw. The wife works at Lowes, so got a discount =on it.:)) of course it was more of a deal to me than her LOL :))This thanksgiving when we said thanks around the table, I includedthat I was thankful for all my new power tools:)) Ahh ahh ahh ahShould have bought it a year ago LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Thanks guys:)) I just got me a Delta band saw to cut up all the hard wood discount on it.:)) of course it was more of a deal to me than her LOL =:))This thanksgiving when we said thanks around the table, I =included ahShould have bought it a year ago LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Nov 24 21:24:42 2001 fAP3OfH13698 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:24:42 - ([209.178.134.45] helo=g2t8c9) id 167puF-0006eN-00; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:24:36 -0800 ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Dave, I agree. I have no problem with putting out the information I read ordevelop. Some do, there are many rodmakers that have been burned bythosethey have shared with. If I am given a piece of information and told to keepit to myself I do so because it is the honest thing to do. For example onevery well known rodmaker did some reasearch on glues. He found one thatwasvery good, he shared the information and another maker basically corneredthe market on it and the first rod maker can not even get the glue withoutgoing through the second maker at double the price. Ouch... that burns. ----- Original Message ----- ;Rodmakers Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper to reinvent the wheel and the trade is better off in general... Take Care, Dave from jojo@ipa.net Sat Nov 24 22:00:19 2001 fAP40EH14249 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:00:14 -0600 helo=default) id 167qSi-0002bx-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:00:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Stripper Guides In looking at the pictures, they seem to be the same as those available fromGolden Witch. What does someone else think? I know we have such a shortageof opinions here, but . . . ;o) M-D Have you looked at the Snake Brand agate stripperguides? SNIP I think the Snake Brand Agate strippers in BlackNickel finish are jewelry. They're beatiful on abamboo rod if you are searching for agate stripperguides and haven't tried these yet. Chris McDowellblitzenrods@yahoo.com from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sat Nov 24 22:30:20 2001 fAP4UFH14754 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:30:15 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Stripper Guides They are the same guides Anglersworkshop sells.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stripper Guides In looking at the pictures, they seem to be the same as those available from Golden Witch. What does someone else think? I know we have such ashortageof opinions here, but . . . ;o) M-D From: "Chris McDowell" Have you looked at the Snake Brand agate stripperguides? SNIP I think the Snake Brand Agate strippers in BlackNickel finish are jewelry. They're beatiful on abamboo rod if you are searching for agate stripperguides and haven't tried these yet. Chris McDowellblitzenrods@yahoo.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Nov 25 01:28:53 2001 fAP7SqH17155 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 01:28:52 - Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:28:43 -0800 Sun, 25 Nov 2001 07:28:43 GMT Subject: Re: Stripper Guides FILETIME=[CFCD2190:01C17582] When I bought agate strippers from John Weir in the late 80's they had that delicate low frame , he said they were made in Germany.A.J. From: Chris McDowell CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Stripper Guides Have you looked at the Snake Brand agate stripperguides? I have a small supply from fairly recentstock. from the rod to the bottom of the nickelsilver ring is 3/32". This is less than the Pac BayTitanium which stand 4/32" and the Mildrum at 5/32"all in size 10mm. The ID of the agate is smaller thanthe others at 7/32" while both the Pac Bay and Mildrumare 10/32". I do see what you are saying about older stock, as Ihave a few old agate/agatines and some of them aremounted low in the saddle and ride just barely abovethe rod. I think the Snake Brand Agate strippers in BlackNickel finish are jewelry. They're beatiful on abamboo rod if you are searching for agate stripperguides and haven't tried these yet. Chris McDowellblitzenrods@yahoo.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Mike, Well, I'm not a machinist at all. Still, I doubtvery much that an existingframe with the agate mounted can be altered. To my eye, however, the problem with these strippingguides is not so muchthe diameter of the wire that is used (though I donot see why this, too,could not be reduced). The problem seems to be morea matter of the overalldimensions of the frame. They just appear to beshaped with curves that areof too great a radius, and the agate stands muchhigher off the cane than itneeds to. Recently, I finished a Garrison #201, and HoagyCharmichael donated anabsolutely gorgeous agate guide. The agate itselfappears to be 10mm, butthe frame is delicate and small, lying close to thecane. There is noreason why current manufacturers of these guidescannot do the same. ----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Shaffer" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 8:11 PMSubject: Re: Stripper Guides I wonder if it would be possible to skinny down a factory agate frame without causing any breakage prioblems.What do you think, Bill?Heck, if someone has an old one to toss my way, I'll give it a shot in the shop, no guarantee of the result but the original owner would get it backto play with--just wondering.Mike----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 6:52 PMSubject: Re: Stripper Guides __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from splitcane@home.com Sun Nov 25 08:00:15 2001 fAPE0BH20465 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 08:00:11 - ;Sun, 25 Nov 2001 06:00:10 -0800 "Chris Raine" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper or John Doe Hi All... There is one thing I would like to mention that I have neglectedin my past post, I do not know Jim R. and his name just happen to be in thepost that started this thread. I have only heard good things from those thatknow Jim personally, for all practicality the maker could be John Doe that Irefer to in my post... I do not believe the rod making trade is a cutthroat business, unless aperson would like to make it that way. I have only meet a handful of professional makers in person and prior to meeting them they did not knowme from Adam ( no pun intended [;-)] Three that rise to the top are Bob Nunley,Jon Parker and Hommer Jennings, all three were forth coming to answer anyquestions I had without hesitation. They were all true gentlemen and someonewho enriched your life just by having the pleasure to meet them, all threehave at least a one year back log and that brings my in my point. Therebuilding bamboo fly rods, not doing research on nuclear fusion for the USgovernment! They all have a back log because of there personalities, hardwork and skills, not because they have a top secret method that they couldtell you but then they would have to kill you. If a person has to lie, cheatand steal in there trade to try to stay on top, that is usually reflected inthere production and customer base. I have owned a sign business in Denver for the last 25 years and think thetwo crafts are fairly close as there a personal expression of ones art. Istarted the company at age 18 and like I'm sure a lot of makers did on awing and a prayer, having nothing but my personality, hard work andcraftsmanship to carry me to my next meal. It's a long hard road with longhours and sometimes with little or no pay, but it allows me to do what Ilove and I would not trade in for all the cane in China! Over the last 10years competition has come out of the wood work with the introduction ofcomputers to the trade, now anyone with a bank roll can get into the tradeno matter there background or skill level. At first I looked at a Fast Sign,Signs Now, Dollar Sign, Quick Sign in every strip mall in Denver as a badthing, but now I look at them as customer qualifiers! They all have the sametheme, fast, cheep signs produced by someone with little or no skill. If acustomers bottom line is fast and cheep, there probably not a goodcustomer child" every time you do business with them. I once had a customer ask me ifI could do an "uglier" sign for "cheaper" you can guess where I referredthem... Bottom line, if someone steals your glue! no big deal as there are at least50 known glues on the market that work very well. Is someone going to buyyour rod because you use a special glue made from pee stained fur of theartic fox collected during mating season every third year, I do not thinkso... In the real world once I design a sign ( based on a vintage signmaker ) using know materials and sell it on the open market it's free gameand I can not patent it or request other sign makers not to use it, justlike a maker can not patent a rod made of cane using a taper he designed (based on a vintage rod maker ) A quality sign craftsmen would not use mydesign and claim it as there own and sell it on the open market anyway, justlike a quality rod craftsmen would afford the same courtesy to there fellowcraftsmen. If they do, it will all come out in the wash ( as Bob points outwith the Edwards Quad taper ) Each quality maker has there own signatureandrequesting someone not to reproduce it is a mute point, as they will or willnot based on there morals anyway. On a personal level, asking someone nottouse your taper strictly for there own use is just vengeful as they probablywill not be a customer of any maker and by doing so you just hurt your selfand your craft. In a traditional craft based business if your skills,personality and craftsmanship do not carry your business, you better get aday job... Take Care, Dave ----- Original Message ----- I recieved a taper last week that reminded me of what you aluded to (Dave). I have a taper from a quite famous quad maker. I have made the rod formyself, and it is great. This guy does not share, and he makes that clear. I have no problem with that, or with keeping the taper a secret. Funny thingis, I have 2 Edwards tapers for different grade rods(the second came in last week) that are to the .001 or .002" the same rod! Isn't that a hoot? In mymind that is close enough to say that all three are the same. So much forproprietary tapers. from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Nov 25 08:54:49 2001 fAPEsnH21691 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 08:54:49 - Sun, 25 Nov 2001 06:54:40 -0800 Subject: Re: USPS FILETIME=[1C272570:01C175C1] I have been mailing Waara node presses via USPS Priority Insured, and as =far as I can tell, the delivery time has been 2 days. UPS Ground is more= I have beenma=iling Waara node presses via USPS Priority Insured, and as far as I can t= from rmoon@ida.net Sun Nov 25 08:56:25 2001 fAPEuOH21841 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 08:56:24 - 0000 Adam Vigil , Chris Raine ,Rodmakers Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper TonyYou forgot those who are pulled up by a stout upper belay. We havethose in rod making as well.Ralp --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from anglport@con2.com Sun Nov 25 09:31:18 2001 fAPFVHH22404 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:31:17 - Subject: Re: Rod name. New one! Hey all you afficionados out there! Anybody know why I'm in =possession of an H-I "Pocono" with blue wraps (SEEM original) and it's =not in Sinclair's book? At least I can't find it. The name Pocono seems =to be in line with their other trademarks, but it isn't there...Any ideas? Art there! Anybody know why I'm in possession of an H-I "Pocono" with blue = The name Pocono seems to be in line with their other trademarks, but it = there... Thanks, Art from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Nov 25 09:37:29 2001 fAPFbSH22645 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:37:28 - Sun, 25 Nov 2001 07:37:22 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: buying a Plane FILETIME=[136D5AC0:01C175C7] I've had an o9 1/2 record that I bought about 12 years ago. I recently =looked at a new one right out of the package, not even in a box, and was =disgusted with how crude it was. It was coarsely sanded and felt very ro=ugh on the sides and sharp on the edges; the sole was quite dished. It s=eemed worse than a K-Mart $9.99 special. Of course, it could still be tu=ned up to a decent condition but I guess Record is just another company n=ow being run by bean counters and will do anything to save a buck - even =degrade a noble product. I wonder if the rest of their product line is n= Stanley no longer makes the 09 1/2 with the vertical micro blade adjustme=nt, which I prefer for our kind of work. I suppose it won't be long befo=re Record does the same. So, I have just ordered a Lie-Neilson in ductil=e iron....Those old Stanley's can only go up in value. had= ecord is just another company now being run by bean counters and will do = dered a Lie-Neilson in ductile iron.... Those old Stanley's ca= from harms1@pa.net Sun Nov 25 10:18:51 2001 fAPGIoH23308 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 10:18:50 - Subject: Re: reel seat inserts I cut my wood immediately into blocks 3.75" long (got about 45 really niceones), and am now air-drying them. Up in my attic, where the temp is about65-70 degrees, I stacked the blocks in a little row (four high), with scrapbamboo strips separating the rows. I used no wax to retard the drying. My wood was clammy-wet and very heavy when I cut the blocks. But now,afteronly about 12 days, they have already lost about a third of their weight,and show no signs of warping or checking. Of course, the first stages ofwater-loss occur rapidly anyway, while the "true" curing will take a fewmore months. (Woodworkers say one year per inch of thickness, but that's I would be concerned about any sort of "forcing" in the drying process. Idon't think you can safely speed up the drying of burls without riskingwarpage or internal checking. Drying too fast, I think, gets rid ofmoisture more rapidly than the fibers of the wood can cope with. Inspeeding-up the curing process, one really needs to know how to timeoptimumcycles of temperature, air circulation and humidity over a period of manydays. This is not a process that most of us novices really understand orcan manage. Tony believes that box elder is not really a hardwood, and can benefit fromstabilizing. That may well be true, I don't know. Stabilizing (likechicken soup) certainly can't hurt, but it does add weight, it does fix thecolor of the wood, and it does sometimes impart sort of a "milky" hue(though this may depend upon the material used). If these factors are not aproblem, there is certainly nothing wrong with stabilizing. It's only thatit may not be necessary. Because I shape my reel seats on a router table and not a lathe I don't getblow-out (well, except for the occasional piece that's badly damagedinside), so I'm not particularly concerned about that problem. Over theyears, I have used the router technique to make perfectly satisfactory reelseats from un-stabilized burls as soft as cedar and redwood. (And, too,because the core of a reel seat is firmly glued to the bamboo blank within,I believe that even these softer woods become "stable" in use.) cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: reel seat inserts Dried the wood in the kitchen oven at 200 for alot of hours.Then stabilized it after I cut it into a small block.Turned it down a little over size and stabilized again just to make sure.Got a little warp in it, but turned it back out. It hasn't warped sincethat.I have some other processes that helped it too.Box elder seems to be soft.Looked into it somewhere and found out Box elder is a really not a hardwood. (where did I read that?) ( I think wood stabilizing Specialist page)any how, It turned out good.I get the feeling you could let the wood dry out for two years and it wouldstill be soft. (just the nature of the wood)I could be wrong.Has anyone ever dried box elder burl out to see how hard it gets?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Nov 25 10:23:18 2001 fAPGNGH23578 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 10:23:16 - Subject: Re: Reames 8 ft taper Adam Vigil , Chris Raine ,Rodmakers Ralph,a good top belay off bomb proof pro is ok as long as you plan on progressing. You'd have loved climbing with my bunch, we used to employ what we called "simulated leader fall potential" if we deemed slacking on the part of the second [:-)] There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like climbing upand watching the rope dangle below you if your mate decided you should be able to do it and he wont let you down and wont take in the slack. That was always good for a laugh I can tell you. We were popular at the camp sites but not many wanted to climb with us [:-)] Hard men aren't born, they're made!!! Tony At 07:54 AM 11/25/01 -0700, Ralph Moon wrote: TonyYou forgot those who are pulled up by a stout upper belay. We havethose in rod making as well.Ralp --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. "- Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527), "The Prince"/*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 10:58:02 2001 fAPGw2H24213 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 10:58:02 -0600 25 Nov 2001 08:57:58 PST Subject: snakebrand guides all, i am looking to put together a snakeguide order.contact me off list if you are intrested. i would liketo keep it to larger orders lik3ee 50 bucks or 100bucks not just 8 guides for instance.www.snakeguides.com timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Nov 25 13:00:37 2001 fAPJ0XH25713 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:00:37 - for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:00:28 -0500 Subject: N/S Twilight Zone I must be in some sort of Nickel Silver Twilight Zone?Is there anyone out there that can Actually deliver this material?After numerous attempts(Various sellers) to acquire N/S, I feel I'd have =an easier time of getting Uranium:))And the cost(which I'm willing to pay) ranks up there with Movie Popcorn =and Gold.So does anyone need Nickel Silver? anyone interested?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I must be in some sort of Nickel Silver Twilight Zone?Is there anyone out there that can Actually deliver this =material? have an easier time of getting Uranium:))And the cost(which I'm willing to pay) ranks up there with Movie = and Gold.So does anyone need Nickel Silver?Maybe we can put together a group order, anyone interested?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from homes-sold@home.com Sun Nov 25 13:04:11 2001 fAPJ4AH25915 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:04:10 - femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:04:10 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: buying a Plane I picked up a Record a couple of years ago and noticed the same thing as =John. Spent about three days trying to tune it, got discussed and tossed =it in the trash. Moral to the story: "A cheap tool is expensive." I've had an o9 1/2 record that I bought about 12 years ago. I recently =looked at a new one right out of the package, not even in a box, and was =disgusted with how crude it was. It was coarsely sanded and felt very =rough on the sides and sharp on the edges; the sole was quite dished. =It seemed worse than a K-Mart $9.99 special I picked up a Record a couple of years ago and = same thing as John. Spent about three days trying to tune it, got = expensive." From:John = special from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sun Nov 25 13:44:48 2001 fAPJimH26622 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:44:48 - Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:44:39 -0800 Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only FILETIME=[9EF216E0:01C175E9] I blued ferrules and a reel seat for the first time yesterday, and would =like to share the process and some thoughts for those who have never =done it. Used Kodak fixer. No hardeners or other additives. I made that choice =because I am trying to get the rod finished in time for Christmas, and =did not want to wait for yet another component to arrive in the mail. I =mixed the fixer according to the package directions, and followed the =ferrule preparation recommended by Elser and Maurer. Light polish with =fine steel wool, then acetone, then alcohol, then a rinse. The Bellinger reel seat components darkened within minutes to a pleasing =blue/black. The Bellinger ferrules sat there for hours. When they began to darken, =the tone was uneven and splotched. This caused some major panic. I =simply left them in the solution for much of the afternoon. Eventually =they darkened evenly, but ended up with a slightly different color than =the reel seats. Not quite as dark, and the tone had less of a blue cast. =Probably could have left them soak longer, but it seemed that they were =no longer changing color. The color difference was enough so you could see it if you held the =components side by side, but it would take a person with a good eye for =color and some experience with bamboo to see much of a difference after = Bottom line is that it worked better than I thought it would, with low =cost compared to commercial blueing agents. However, were I making rods =professionally, I would experiment with commercial blueing agents and =try and match the color exactly. The only thing I would do differently is to forget the steel wool, and =first polish with McGuires or one of the 3M compounds. I may have put a =few minute scratches in end cap. Or they may have been there before, but =the blueing made them more visible. Jeff Schaeffer I blued ferrules and a reel seat for = yesterday, and would like to share the process and some thoughts for = have never done it. Used Kodak fixer. No hardeners orother = I made that choice because I am trying to get the rod finished in time = Christmas, and did not want to wait for yet another component to arrive = the package directions, and followed the ferrule preparation recommended = Elser and Maurer. Light polish with fine steel wool, then acetone, then = then a rinse. The Bellinger reel seat components = minutes to a pleasing blue/black. The Bellinger ferrules sat there for = they began to darken, the tone was uneven and splotched. This caused = panic. I simply left them in the solution for much of the afternoon. = they darkened evenly, but ended up with a slightly different color than = could have left them soak longer, but it seemed that they were no longer = changing color. The color difference was enough so would take a person with a good eye for color and some experience with = see much of a difference after they were mounted on the = Bottom line is that it worked better = it would, with low cost compared to commercial blueing agents. However, = making rods professionally, I would experiment with commercial blueing = and try and match the color exactly. The only thing I would do differently = the steel wool, and first polish with McGuires or one of the 3M = have put a few minute scratches in end cap. Or they may have been there = but the blueing made them more visible. Jeff Schaeffer from wkifer@harborside.com Sun Nov 25 16:00:51 2001 fAPM0pH28520 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:00:51 - 0000 Subject: Test Anyone out there? from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Nov 25 16:12:11 2001 fAPMC5H28949 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:12:05 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Test We're still here. Just busy working on a rod. You're coming through loud andclear. Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Test Anyone out there? from jojo@ipa.net Sun Nov 25 16:22:21 2001 fAPMMKH29287 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:22:20 -0600 helo=default) id 1687fD-0001aM-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:22:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Test We are not here, and it is all a figment of your imagination. Perhaps toomuch HipHop in your travels, Randall? I'm told it does strange things to themind. It must, look at all the pitiful people who listen to it.}B^)> M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Test We're still here. Just busy working on a rod. You're coming through loud and clear. Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message -----From: "Wayne Kifer" Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 4:01 PMSubject: Test Anyone out there? from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Nov 25 17:12:24 2001 fAPNCNH00152 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:12:23 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Test Way too much reverb in my past. Funny how I keep getting these revelationswhile I'm in the shop. Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Test We are not here, and it is all a figment of your imagination. Perhaps toomuch HipHop in your travels, Randall? I'm told it does strange things to the mind. It must, look at all the pitiful people who listen to it.}B^)> M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Randall Gregory" Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 4:12 PMSubject: Re: Test We're still here. Just busy working on a rod. You're coming through loud and clear. Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message -----From: "Wayne Kifer" Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 4:01 PMSubject: Test Anyone out there? from darrell@vFish.net Sun Nov 25 17:50:29 2001 fAPNoSH00880 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:50:28 - Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:49:53 -0600 Subject: RE: Rod name. New one! I've owned a couple of them in the past... I seem to recall that is was alow- medium grade rod of shorter than 8.5 ft in length... perhaps an 8footer?Sinclair only included charts for a few years and this rod was probably inone of the other years. It's not in the '49 repro catalog either... but I believe it was a post WWIIrod.Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 7:30 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod name. New one! Hey all you afficionados out there! Anybody know why I'm in possessionof an H-I "Pocono" with blue wraps (SEEM original) and it's not inSinclair's book? At least I can't find it. The name Pocono seems to be inline with their other trademarks, but it isn't there...Any ideas?Thanks,Art owned a couple of them in the past... I seem to recall that is was a = only included charts for a few years and this rod was probably in one of = other years. rod. Regards,Darrell LeeAnglers (323)465- PortSent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 7:30 one! there! Anybody know why I'm in possession of an H-I "Pocono" with blue = it. The name Pocono seems to be in line with their other trademarks, = isn't there... Thanks, Art from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Nov 25 18:30:23 2001 fAQ0UMH01963 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:30:22 - Subject: Re: N/S Twilight Zone Hi Tony,The best place to get N/S is from Busby Metals. But,you have to buy it in 12ft. lengths. The price is good. Or you canbuy some from Bob Venneri, in smaller Quantity. Busby Metals 1-800-552-8729 Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from BambooRods@aol.com Sun Nov 25 19:12:36 2001 fAQ1CZH02916 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:12:35 - for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:11:30 - Subject: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned. I can't tell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's and con's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begin documentingsome of the process that has proven to be effective. This especially since (to my knowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts?Doug from pohl@earthlink.net Sun Nov 25 19:12:53 2001 fAQ1ClH02955 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:12:47 - helo=pohl) id 168AKD-0004JC-00; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:12:45 -0800 , "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: buying a Plane I've just ordered a Record 9 1/2, hopfully mine is ok...... How do you = Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 2:04 PMSubject: Re: buying a Plane I picked up a Record a couple of years ago and noticed the same thing =as John. Spent about three days trying to tune it, got discussed and =tossed it in the trash. Moral to the story: "A cheap tool is =expensive." I've had an o9 1/2 record that I bought about 12 years ago. I =recently looked at a new one right out of the package, not even in a =box, and was disgusted with how crude it was. It was coarsely sanded =and felt very rough on the sides and sharp on the edges; the sole was =quite dished. It seemed worse than a K-Mart $9.99 special I've just ordered a Record 9 1/2, hopfully mine = ok...... How do you tell if it's properly in tuned? = ----- Original Message ----- Don = Schneider Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001= PMSubject: Re: buying a =Plane I picked up a Record a couple of years ago and = tool is expensive." From:John= sanded and felt very rough on the sides and sharp on the = special from BambooRods@aol.com Sun Nov 25 20:22:21 2001 fAQ2MKH04315 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:22:20 - Subject: Re: Waara node press rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Where could one "poor node presser" buy such an item? from harms1@pa.net Sun Nov 25 20:26:48 2001 fAQ2QjH04598 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:26:45 - Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Jeff, Probably, no matter what blueing agent you used, you would not get exactlythe same color on your various pieces. Nickel-silver is funny stuff (well,not so damn funny when it comes to blueing), as it all seems to take thecolor differently. I don't know why, but I suppose it must be because notall 18% nickel silver is actually the same overall alloy--or something.Anyhow, nickel silver is goofy stuff when it comes to blueing. I use a product from Brownell's, called "Dicropan IM." This has worked well you give the process a little "jump start." I always clean the piece with acetone or laquer thinner, and then apply theblueing agent with a tiny piece of #0000 steel wool, rubbing somewhatvigorously all over as I go. The steel wool quickly becomes blackened(because of the blueing agent), and this leaves an already-deeply- coloredliquid on the nickel silver. This seems to start the reaction more quicklyand more uniformly. Rub pretty hard with this first application, but for no more than perhapsonly 15 seconds, and then wipe the piece dry with paper towel--that is,while it is still uniformly wetted-out. Do not allow any area to becomedry, because oxygen will soon begin to create those cruddy-lookingsplotches. The paper towel will absorb the remaining liquid, and rubbingwith the moist paper will burnish the surface slightly. This begins toblend the color, minimizing the areas where color has "taken" unevenly. Butthe color will not yet be nearly as dark as you want it. Let the piece "cure" for a couple hours or so. Additional applications ofblueing are now needed to darken the color to the degree you wish. BUTTAKEHEED! Blueing agents will remove existing blueing as surely as they lay ondeeper color. So, no more slathering it on with steel wool! What you want to do for ALL SUBSEQUENT coats is to use only a few dropsofthe blueing on a piece of paper towel--only enough to make the paper"sweaty," but not at all saturated. Now wipe the nickel silver piece firmlyand quickly with the moist paper towel. If you have the proper amount ofbluing on the paper, there should be only a minute moisture film left behindon the surface, one that evaporates almost as soon as you see it. Thisaction will slowly deepen the color without removing previous applications. If you see that the color is being removed, you have applied too muchliquid. At worst, you only need to go back to the steel wool technique toget started over again. It's not a big deal. You'll get used to thisquickly. Do this as often as you wish, allowing each "coat" to cure for an hour or sobetween applications. But remember, less is better on these follow- upapplications. You only want to rub on a barely moist film--one that acts onthe surface of the metal perhaps more because of humid fumes thanbecause ofactual liquid. The great advantage of this technique is that you are burnishing color intothe surface molecules without laying on an actual coating. But remember,too, that blueing nickel silver is not at all like blueing steel or iron.Regardless of blueing agent or technique, the blued film is always delicate(at best), and it needs the protection of laquer or varnish. Hope this helps. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only I blued ferrules and a reel seat for the first time yesterday, and wouldlike to share the process and some thoughts for those who have never doneit. Used Kodak fixer. No hardeners or other additives. I made that choicebecause I am trying to get the rod finished in time for Christmas, and didnot want to wait for yet another component to arrive in the mail. I mixedthe fixer according to the package directions, and followed the ferrulepreparation recommended by Elser and Maurer. Light polish with fine steelwool, then acetone, then alcohol, then a rinse. The Bellinger reel seat components darkened within minutes to a pleasingblue/black. The Bellinger ferrules sat there for hours. When they began to darken, thetone was uneven and splotched. This caused some major panic. I simply leftthem in the solution for much of the afternoon. Eventually they darkenedevenly, but ended up with a slightly different color than the reel seats.Not quite as dark, and the tone had less of a blue cast. Probably could haveleft them soak longer, but it seemed that they were no longer changingcolor. The color difference was enough so you could see it if you held thecomponents side by side, but it would take a person with a good eye forcolor and some experience with bamboo to see much of a difference aftertheywere mounted on the rod. Bottom line is that it worked better than I thought it would, with low costcompared to commercial blueing agents. However, were I making rodsprofessionally, I would experiment with commercial blueing agents and tryand match the color exactly. The only thing I would do differently is to forget the steel wool, and firstpolish with McGuires or one of the 3M compounds. I may have put a fewminutescratches in end cap. Or they may have been there before, but the blueingmade them more visible. Jeff Schaeffer from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Sun Nov 25 20:43:08 2001 fAQ2h8H05110 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:43:08 -0600 Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:42:59 -0800 Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:42:58 GMT Subject: Re: Waara node press FILETIME=[0F645B60:01C17624] Get ahold of John Long if you want a Warra Node Press. John was BillWarra's best friend and is now making the press. No personalinvolvement! Jim jvswan@earthlink.net, ccurrojr@voyager.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 25 21:28:38 2001 fAQ3SbH06120 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:28:38 - helo=g2t8c9) id 168CRg-0001h9-00; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:28:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Doug, Funny you mention wet planing. I just talked to Jim Reams yesterday, he hasbeen doing it for something like over 20 years. He told me he hangs them dry Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned. I can't tell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's andcon's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begindocumenting some of the process that has proven to be effective. This especially since (to my knowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts? Doug from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Nov 25 21:52:50 2001 fAQ3qoH06845 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:52:50 - helo=g2t8c9) id 168Cp7-0001tr-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:52:49 -0800 Subject: New rodmakers save $ Working on a rod today I was thinking about all the goodies I made orbought for rodmaking. I remember when I was in the process of getting mytools together the thought of investing a ton of money was overwhelming. Ihave had several hobbies in the past and one thing I learned is if you jumpin with both feet you are apt to buy to much stuff and pay way to much forit. So before I started I did a lot of research and tried to find out wherethe best place to get my tools at the best price was. One stumbling blockwas buying a scraper. Essentially the Lie-Nielson scraper was the onerecommended and basically was the only one in the game being its style ismade only by one maker. I think it cost around $145, so I made my own. Itworked O.K. but there is something that works even better. It never needs tobe sharpened, can take a shaving of .0005 with great ease and the best partis it cost about $1.50. This marvelous tool is a good ole window scraper. Itake my strips down to .005 above the forms with my grooved Stanley andthenfinish them flush with the scraper. Works every time. I believe a thread on alternative tools would be a good one. Adam Vigil from bob@downandacross.com Sun Nov 25 23:15:48 2001 fAQ5FgH10798 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:15:42 - Subject: RE: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? The only con I can think of involves the heating of the strips. If youstraighten and then soak and rough taper your strips, you will get thepressed nodes to return a bit when you heat treat before final planing. Ifyou soak and then straighten, your nodes will be dry and may chip when youplane them. I have yet to figure out the perfect routine for this. I wouldlike to know what others do.I myself split or saw out the strips; flame; straighten, press, and file thenodes; bevel strips to 60 or 90*; soak strips for 48 hours; rough strips towithin 10-15% of final dimensions; heat treat for 1 hour at 225 and 8- 10minutes at 350 degrees; press nodes and straighten again if needed; andthenfinal plane.Am I making things too hard on myself?Bob -----Original Message----- BambooRods@aol.com Subject: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned.I can'ttell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's andcon's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begindocumenting someof the process that has proven to be effective. This especiallysince (to myknowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts?Doug from iank@ts.co.nz Mon Nov 26 00:54:53 2001 fAQ6sqH15151 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:54:52 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:58:47 +1300 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bob, Interesting to see how other people carry out this process. I file and sandthe nodes, then split , then straighten any kinks but do not worry aboutsweep type bends. If the splitting has been a little cautious ( wide strips)I will soak for 8 hours and then rough plane. If the strips are quite closeto the right width and there is not much to come off I do not bother tosoak. I do not taper the strips before I rough plane as this has causedproblems in the oven for me. ( one blonde end and one tan end) Soaked stripsI hang in the drying cupboard for about 5-6 days and then I heat treat for 71/2 minutes at 340 degrees.This takes out the sweeping bends. I keep thesections coming out of the oven straight , so they cool straight , byputting them on the planning form with a couple of pieces of metal on top ofthem .I then sand off the enamel and the nodes flat again before I final plane. Ido not press the nodes ( some may suggest this means they are a bitobviousas a result but that does not worry me) and try to keep straightening to aminimum in the process. I try to keep the heat gun away from the strips asmuch as possible as the failures I have had all seem to be associated withpressing nodes or straightening. Also my process is fairly simple. Ian----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? The only con I can think of involves the heating of the strips. If youstraighten and then soak and rough taper your strips, you will get thepressed nodes to return a bit when you heat treat before final planing. Ifyou soak and then straighten, your nodes will be dry and may chip when youplane them. I have yet to figure out the perfect routine for this. I wouldlike to know what others do.I myself split or saw out the strips; flame; straighten, press, and file the nodes; bevel strips to 60 or 90*; soak strips for 48 hours; rough strips to within 10-15% of final dimensions; heat treat for 1 hour at 225 and 8- 10minutes at 350 degrees; press nodes and straighten again if needed; and then final plane.Am I making things too hard on myself?Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BambooRods@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned.I can'ttell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's andcon's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begindocumenting someof the process that has proven to be effective. This especiallysince (to myknowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts? Doug from homes-sold@home.com Mon Nov 26 04:24:02 2001 fAQAO1H18645 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 04:24:01 - femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:23:56 -0800 Subject: Re: New rodmakers save $ When I first started I used the replacement blades for utility knives forscrapers. When they get dull, grab another.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: New rodmakers save $ I remember when I was in the process of getting mytools together the thought of investing a ton of money was overwhelming Ibelieve a thread on alternative tools would be a good one. Adam Vigil from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Nov 26 04:24:43 2001 fAQAOfH18660 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 04:24:41 - fAQAOKV71053; Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Jeff I blue with photo fixer and hardener, and have done for some time. I amvery happy with the results, and have posted several times on the method Iuse.A couple of comments. Without any appreciation of the chemistry involvedhere, I am sort of subjectively convinced the whole thing goes better if Iuse a dab of hardener added to the fixer.I like to wash them in soapy water, rinse well, and defat and dry off with70% alcohol. Used use ether until someone on the list pointed out howdangerous that stuff is. No adverse effects since switching.The "mottling" that you describe is quite a common phenomenon, but thereally weird thing is that it always seems to right itself, and I don'tever leave it any longer than a few minutes in the bath. I just get it out,rinse it and put it aside to dry, and it comes out OK.I also, like you, notice a pretty consistent difference in "take" betweenferrules and reel seat components, but again, in NEARLY every case, minealways seem to sort themselves out before they are dry.Any irregularities can be swabbed up with a Q-tip dipped in the solution.And no, MY Q-tips are NOT tested by Bob Nunley!!! Stay happy Peter from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Mon Nov 26 07:22:30 2001 fAQDMTH20603 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:22:29 - Subject: Bowling Alley Wax Thanks for all the replies! I stripped the rod Wednesday night, except for the wraps, cleaned it withminerals spirits and then rubbing alcohol. Rubbed in two coats of wax. Oneon Wednesday night one in between plate loads of turkey Thursday. Fishedthe rod for 4 hours Saturday and then again on Sunday in the rain, held upperfectly. Removing the varnish did help stiffen the rod back to where Iliked it. Turned over those tiny #22-#24 BWO's like a dream! Peter from harms1@pa.net Mon Nov 26 07:36:37 2001 fAQDaZH21061 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:36:35 - Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? All, I wanted to try the soaking method for heat straightening and "squaring- up"my strips. I have done two rods this way, but I do not think I will domore. It is true that the soaked cane yeilds much, much more readily during theheat straightening process, but this seems to be more a function of thefibers being wet and limp than of the heat itself. The result, for me, hasbeen that, while I can easily bend the nodes nice and straight, they do notwant to stay that way for long. Moving the fibers nicely into alignment because of their water saturationseems to have created an "illusion" for me, whereas it seems that only theapplication of heat really can really do the job permanently. Moreover,because the saturated nodes can be straightened SO easily, I fear that thefibers may be tearing or shreding without even noticing. I don't know, butI think that heat (a sort of "melting?"), rather than water, is what iswanted to create the pliability that permanent straightening requires.Others can chime in on this. Secondly, as to the "squaring-up" process, again it is true that the canejust rolls away before my plane, like butter. But I don't like it. Myobjections come from something I hadn't anticipated at all. I am soaccustomed to the feel of the blade as it cuts, and to the sound the planemakes that I was almost shocked when I cut the wet cane. Suddenly, I feltas if I didn't know what I was doing anymore, because all the sensoryfeedback that I had almost taken for granted was radically altered. And Ijust didn't like that. Furthermore, filing the outer surface of wet nodes does not go at all well.The file quickly becomes loaded with a gooy slurry of bamboo mush, andbefore long, all my tools begin to flash over with rust. Besides, the feel of cold, clammy cane in my hands is not at all a pleasantsensation, and the growing pile of sloppy, limp shavings coming off theplane almost disgusted me. I had no idea that stuff like this could matter. Man! Talk about an old fart who's set in his ways!! So, I thought, "tohell with all this stuff!" (well, in real life, I would never use suchlanguage), and it's back to what I know, and what I like. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Doug, Funny you mention wet planing. I just talked to Jim Reams yesterday, he has been doing it for something like over 20 years. He told me he hangs them dry Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 5:11 PMSubject: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned. I can't tell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's andcon's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begindocumenting some of the process that has proven to be effective. This especially since (to my knowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts? Doug from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 07:42:17 2001 fAQDgGH21331 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:42:16 - helo=default) id 168M1Q-0002Dg-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:42:08 -0500 Subject: Re: New rodmakers save $ Same here. The L-N 212 makes much shorter work of the job. M-D When I first started I used the replacement blades for utility knives forscrapers. When they get dull, grab another.Don From: "Adam Vigil" I remember when I was in the process of getting mytools together the thought of investing a ton of money was overwhelming Ibelieve a thread on alternative tools would be a good one. Adam Vigil from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 26 07:45:26 2001 fAQDjQH21645 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:45:26 - fAQDjO831821 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:45:25 -0600 Subject: Re: New rodmakers save $ I still use single edge razor blades even with the Lei Nielsen Scraper. Likeyou say, when dull just chuck them. Personally I have found this to be thebest way for me to finish a strip.I do use cheap blades, HF has them on sale at times for 1.97-100 blades.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Don Schneider wrote: When I first started I used the replacement blades for utility knives forscrapers. When they get dull, grab another.Don----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 7:55 PMSubject: New rodmakers save $ I remember when I was in the process of getting mytools together the thought of investing a ton of money was overwhelming Ibelieve a thread on alternative tools would be a good one. Adam Vigil from bhoy551@earthlink.net Mon Nov 26 08:08:09 2001 fAQE7sH22222 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:07:54 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:07:48 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Reel seat inserts FILETIME=[BA855C60:01C17683] Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:04:23 -0500 From: Bill Hoy Subject: Re: Reel seat inserts I also got some of Eamon's elder. Very, very nice. I notice that some of mine is even spalted with a pretty pink! I was planning to coat the ends with paraffin, but I couldn't figure out which was the end grain. Looking closely, it seems as if the wood was cut across the grain, so that the end grain seems actually to be on the broad slab of the wood, not the ends. Already there appear to be little checks appearing around the "knots" of some of the burl. The grain is so fine, and so multi- directional, it's hard to figure out what's going on with it. Any suggestion about how to cure this stuff? bill hoy 9:56 AM 11/24/2001 -0600, you wrote: Shawn, Excellent wood from Eamon, huh? I paraffined the end grain, and havethemsitting out. Don't know how long it will take, but when sufficiently dry Iwill send them out to be stabilized. I don't think you could kiln dry them well enough with anything that any ofus has for an oven. Kiln drying is a very delicate and complex process,thatoccurs over a course of many days. I'm relying on what I've read in thisregard as it pertains to lumber. Smaller pieces certainly could be donequicker but I think the problem is one of actually drying the wood at acontrolled rate, rather than simply trying to get rid of moisture, which, Ibelieve, would tend to check the wood, rendering it useless. Also, the firststep in kiln drying is to raise the relative humidity to 100% for severaldays, then, after complete saturation, begin the drying process. M-D From: "Shawn Pineo" Guys,I have a question. I just got some of those Box Elder blanks from Eamon (thanks again Eamon!) and I was wondering how I should proceed fromhere. I assume I should let them air dry for 6 months to a year?? I plan on using Bob's Plexiglas stabilization method. Should I wax both the ends with Paraffin wax??Has anyone tried kiln drying their blanks in their heat gun rod oven? Wouldn't it work just as well as air curing?? Heat + air flow, seems like it should work eh??? Or should I just wait it out?Any ideas?? from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Nov 26 09:18:33 2001 fAQFIWH25704 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:18:32 - 0000 Subject: Blued nickel silver coatings... This was just covered a short time ago, but I must have been in a little = What is a good protectant coating for blued jewelery, i,e, Ferrules, =strippers and reel seats? Thankstom I apologize, What is a good protectant coating for blued = Ferrules, strippers and reel seats? Thankstom from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 26 09:25:04 2001 fAQFP2H26325 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:25:03 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:24:57 -0800 , "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: buying a Plane FILETIME=[81916E70:01C1768E] Mark,You will have to "tune it" yourself. Start by removing the blade. On a =flat, hard surface, such as a table saw table (cast iron), a 3/8" thick p=iece plate glass, a formica table top or other flat surface, place a full=sheet of 220 emery (you will need several sheets). Pour on a little wat=er and with even hand pressure using circular strokes, flatten the sole o=f the plane. This takes a while to complete. You will see the witness m=arks from the emery and you just keep going until all the factory sanding=marks are gone. You don't have to go any finer than 220 grit but some g=uys like to have a mirror finish and get down to a 400 grit or finer, but=I don't think that is necessary as the sole will get scratched immediate=ly in use anyway. The concern here is to get the sole flat. Next, close the throat plate all the way and make sure the opening slit i=s square to the sides of the plane and the gap is the same all the way ac=ross. You may have to file (8" mill file) the edge the moveable throat p=late or the slit in the plane. Be careful on the slit in the plane--the = Next, with everything removed from the plane, lay the blade in position o=n the anvil and look underneath the blade at the throat opening. Make su=re the blade lies flat across the base of the throat opening. If not, re=move the blade, and lay the mill file on the anvil and extend it out the =throat opening and gently file until the blade lays flat. Check frequent=ly! Put some electrical tape on the file so you don't file down the anvi=l and change the blade angle. Finally, with 220 paper, sand the sides of the plane to get a smooth feel=to the grip then sand all edges and corners to remove any sharp areas. =You may want to put a coat of lacquer on the sides. This will give you superbly comfortable and great performing plane. It m=ay take a couple of hours or more on your first one, but it is worth it! =Do this to all your block planes and you won't believe the difference it= ----- Original Message ----- RodmakersPostSubject: Re: buying a Plane I've just ordered a Record 9 1/2, hopfully mine is ok...... How do you te= Rodma= Subject: Re: buying a Plane I picked up a Record a couple of years ago and noticed the same thing as =John. Spent about three days trying to tune it, got discussed and tossed =it in the trash. Moral to the story: "A cheap tool is expensive." I've had an o9 1/2 record that I bought about 12 years ago. I recently =looked at a new one right out of the package, not even in a box, and was =disgusted with how crude it was. It was coarsely sanded and felt very ro=ugh on the sides and sharp on the edges; the sole was quite dished. It s=eemed worse than a K-Mart $9.99 special Mark, You will have to "tune i= surfac= have to go any finer than 220 grit but some guys like to have a mirror fi= = all=the way and make sure the opening slit is square to the sides of the pla= e=verything removed from the plane, lay the blade in position on the anvil = F= jvswan@earthlink.n=et; RodmakersPost Subject: R= just ordered a Record 9 1/2, hopfully mine is ok...... How do you tell if= @earthlink.net ; RodmakersPost Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 2:04 PM Subject: Re: buying a PlaneI picked up a Record a couple of yearsa=go and noticed the same thing as John. Spent about three days trying to t= special from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Nov 26 09:34:28 2001 fAQFYRH27082 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:34:27 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Plane iron depth Here's another plane question prompted by my inexperience. How does onecheck the depth of the plane iron? I am in the process of grooving my planesoles, and I have heard to set the plane iron just above the level of bottomof the sole. I have also heard of people setting the plane to take a .002"or smaller cut. How do you guys measure that? My depth guage doesn'tseemto do that very well. Is it experience? Do you practice and mike thepractice shavings? Thanks in advance, Jason from stoltz10@home.com Mon Nov 26 10:12:16 2001 fAQGCBH29227 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:12:11 - femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:12:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Plane iron depth I'm new to, but what I do is take some shavings from a test strip andmeasure them. from Bamboomaker@aol.com Mon Nov 26 10:25:45 2001 fAQGPiH00124 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:25:44 - for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:25:33 - Subject: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question Friends, I hope the thanksgiving season went well. I've finally caught up on the rodmakers emails (1K + emails). Anyway, I'm soon to receive 3 bales of 12' cane at my doorstep and we (Dave Norling and I) were thinking . . . Do we really need to put drying splits in them? Classic teaching is to put drying splits in your cane and then to store them. However, it must take quite a long time to receive green cane from China's harvest to your door. So what do the list's expert bamboo bale- maniacs think? Does diameter of cane make a difference? Just wanted to stir the pot . . . Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Nov 26 10:43:43 2001 fAQGhgH01203 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:43:42 - 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Jeff,What is hardener? Is this also a photo developing solution or something used in gun metal bluing?Jon McAnulty At 09:24 PM 11/26/2001 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Jeff I blue with photo fixer and hardener, and have done for some time. I amvery happy with the results, and have posted several times on the method Iuse.A couple of comments. Without any appreciation of the chemistry involvedhere, I am sort of subjectively convinced the whole thing goes better if Iuse a dab of hardener added to the fixer.I like to wash them in soapy water, rinse well, and defat and dry off with70% alcohol. Used use ether until someone on the list pointed out howdangerous that stuff is. No adverse effects since switching.The "mottling" that you describe is quite a common phenomenon, but thereally weird thing is that it always seems to right itself, and I don'tever leave it any longer than a few minutes in the bath. I just get it out,rinse it and put it aside to dry, and it comes out OK.I also, like you, notice a pretty consistent difference in "take" betweenferrules and reel seat components, but again, in NEARLY every case, minealways seem to sort themselves out before they are dry.Any irregularities can be swabbed up with a Q-tip dipped in the solution.And no, MY Q-tips are NOT tested by Bob Nunley!!! Stay happy Peter from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Nov 26 10:55:49 2001 fAQGtmH01932 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:55:48 - 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 2001 10:53:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? After the posts on soaking I tried it for the first time last night. My experience was different than what Bill described. I had already sanded and filed the nodes before soaking so I didn't get the problem with the gooey slurry Bill described. The planing went very nicely and it was easy to hog off big shavings when doing my start angles. Overall, much faster from start to finishing with the rough taper. I heat straightened the strips before the planing. It did dry the nodes somewhat but it made it easier for me to straighten without getting any charring or overheating. I didn't have any problems with chipping, even so. Also, I found it made it pretty easy to straighten the long sweeps as well so the strip was very straight when I first started planing and the strips ended up straighter than I usually have seen. Since I used heat to straighten they have stayed straight, at least so far. I did manage to screw up one butt strip due to inattention to detail so I had to plane a dry strip to make up the 6. This gave me a direct comparison and for me I liked planing the wet strips better. I haven't worked them beyond the initial planing and rough taper so I don't know if I will encounter any problems further on in the process. We shall see. So far, though, I like it.Thanks for the tips, those of you that sent me info on this.Jon McAnulty At 08:35 AM 11/26/2001 -0500, WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I wanted to try the soaking method for heat straightening and "squaring- up"my strips. I have done two rods this way, but I do not think I will domore. remainder of post and replies snipped. from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Mon Nov 26 10:58:46 2001 fAQGwfH02264 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:58:41 - fAQGwRC19952 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:58:27 - Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:25:33 EST Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Do we really need to put drying splits in them? I won't forget my 2nd, 3rd & 4th culms. I bought them at the Greyrock meeting and put them in my van, right beside my bedroll. That night about 2AM, some doggone punk threw a marble right onto the top of my van and woke me up. I got out in my skivvies and looked for the swine, but they were hiding. I couldn't see a dent, so I went back to bed. About an hour later they did it again, so I got dressed, picked up my maglight (the big honker that doubles as a blackjack) and looked all over for them ... nothin' nowheres! I got partway back in my roll, leaving my clothes on for a speedy chase. I was still wide awake, hoping for another chance about forty minutes later, when I heard that marble hit the sheet metal again, only this time it was inside the van. Not only that, I felt the culm jump beside my leg as it auto-check split. Those things are loud! -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Nov 26 10:59:47 2001 fAQGxkH02438 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:59:46 - 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 2001 10:57:43 -0600 Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question I'd say an emphatic yes and make the split all the way from end to end. I did the partial splits as suggested in a manual and had spontaneous splits develop elsewhere in that end of the culm before it finished splitting out itself. This ended up causing me to lose a number of strips since the spontaneous splits were not in the right places. I'd be curious to hear of alternative experiences.Jon McAnulty At 11:25 AM 11/26/2001 -0500, Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, I hope the thanksgiving season went well. I've finally caught up on therodmakers emails (1K + emails). Anyway, I'm soon to receive 3 bales of 12' cane at my doorstep and we(DaveNorling and I) were thinking . . . Do we really need to put drying splits in them? Classic teaching is to put drying splits in your cane and then to store them.However, it must take quite a long time to receive green cane from China'sharvest to your door. So what do the list's expert bamboo bale- maniacsthink? Does diameter of cane make a difference? Just wanted to stir the pot . . . Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 26 11:17:23 2001 fAQHHNH03929 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:17:23 - fAQHHI801658 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:17:18 -0600 Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question When they go "POW BANG" in the middle of the night it will scare the heck outofyou it they are where you can hear them. If they have had a rod run throughthemknocking out the inner diaphragms then I don't think it would really benecessary.I think I would start a split anyway.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Friends, I hope the thanksgiving season went well. I've finally caught up on therodmakers emails (1K + emails). Anyway, I'm soon to receive 3 bales of 12' cane at my doorstep and we(DaveNorling and I) were thinking . . . Do we really need to put drying splits in them? Classic teaching is to put drying splits in your cane and then to store them.However, it must take quite a long time to receive green cane from China'sharvest to your door. So what do the list's expert bamboo bale- maniacsthink? Does diameter of cane make a difference? Just wanted to stir the pot . . . Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from homes-sold@home.com Mon Nov 26 11:29:50 2001 fAQHTnH04735 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:29:49 - femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:29:43 -0800 , "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: buying a Plane Here is a question for the List, just so everyone is on the same page. =What is the difference between a Block Plane, Bench Plane and a =Smoothing Plane ? Don Schneider Here is a question for the List, just so = the same page. What is the difference between a Block Plane, Bench Plane = Smoothing Plane ? Don Schneider from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Nov 26 11:42:34 2001 fAQHgWH05492 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:42:32 - ,, "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: buying a Plane Planes were used before power tools were invented and people made or had planes designed to do pretty much every job that needed doing and these were often as not made by the person himself from wood. A block plane was specifically designed to plane to end grain of a butcher's block. Due to the shallow angle of attack the block plane is about the only really hard plane to make your self and the early versions of both Stanley and Record 60-1/2 and 9-1/2 are very nice tools indeed. A bench plane was used at the bench in most operations. It's not too long, nor short for comfortable use. Unless you needed a specific plane this would be the one you'd use in most jobs. A smoothing plane is a tricky one because some people use the term to imply it's somewhat like a bench plane but a bit longer while others say it's a fore plane which are the largest of all.I tend to think it's the first one because a fore plane is the foremost plane you use when truing the rough cut wood you want to work on though of course you can use a fore plane #6-#8 for general work too but it's hardwork. Tony At 09:30 AM 11/26/01 -0800, Don Schneider wrote: Here is a question for the List, just so everyone is on the same page. What is the difference between a Block Plane, Bench Plane and a Smoothing Plane ? Don Schneider /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Mon Nov 26 11:50:24 2001 fAQHoNH06044 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:50:23 - with HTTP id 5486740 for ; Mon, 26 Nov2001 12:50:18 -0500 Subject: Re: buying a Plane Most of the "experts" in the woodworking mags advise leavingthe blade in place, but retracted just enough to clear thesole. This is supposed to let you flatten the sole with thesame stresses applied to the casting that will be present inactual use. Larry Blan On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:24:16 -0500"John Long" wrote: Mark,You will have to "tune it" yourself. Start by removingthe blade. On a flat, hard surface, such as a table sawtable (cast iron), a 3/8" thick piece plate glass, aformica table top or other flat surface, place a fullsheet of 220 emery (you will need several sheets). Pouron a little water and with even hand pressure usingcircular strokes, flatten the sole of the plane. Thistakes a while to complete. You will see the witnessmarks from the emery and you just keep going until allthe factory sanding marks are gone. You don't have to goany finer than 220 grit but some guys like to have amirror finish and get down to a 400 grit or finer, but Idon't think that is necessary as the sole will getscratched immediately in use anyway. The concern here isto get the sole flat. Next, close the throat plate all the way and make surethe opening slit is square to the sides of the plane andthe gap is the same all the way across. You may have tofile (8" mill file) the edge the moveable throat plate orthe slit in the plane. Be careful on the slit in theplane--the cast iron is very brittle there. Next, with everything removed from the plane, lay theblade in position on the anvil and look underneath theblade at the throat opening. Make sure the blade liesflat across the base of the throat opening. If not,remove the blade, and lay the mill file on the anvil andextend it out the throat opening and gently file untilthe blade lays flat. Check frequently! Put someelectrical tape on the file so you don't file down theanvil and change the blade angle. Finally, with 220 paper, sand the sides of the plane toget a smooth feel to the grip then sand all edges andcorners to remove any sharp areas. You may want to put acoat of lacquer on the sides. This will give you superbly comfortable and greatperforming plane. It may take a couple of hours or moreon your first one, but it is worth it! Do this to all your block planes and you won't believe the difference itmakes in your planing. John Long ----- Original Message -----From: Mark & Kathy PohlSent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:15 PM jvswan@earthlink.net; RodmakersPostSubject: Re: buying a PlaneI've just ordered a Record 9 1/2, hopfully mine isok...... How do you tell if it's properly in tuned? -Mark----- Original Message ----- From: Don Schneider pohl@earthlink.net ; RodmakersPost Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 2:04 PMSubject: Re: buying a Plane I picked up a Record a couple of years ago and noticedthe same thing as John. Spent about three days trying totune it, got discussed and tossed it in the trash. Moralto the story: "A cheap tool is expensive."Don From: John Long I've had an o9 1/2 record that I bought about 12 yearsago. I recently looked at a new one right out of thepackage, not even in a box, and was disgusted with howcrude it was. It was coarsely sanded and felt very roughon the sides and sharp on the edges; the sole was quitedished. It seemed worse than a K- Mart $9.99 special Larry Blan from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 26 11:58:41 2001 fAQHweH06629 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:58:41 - Subject: garrison book jsschaeffer@hotmail.com An original copy of Garrison just sold on Ebay for $71.00. I think that this guy got a deal.Brethttp://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 26 11:59:41 2001 fAQHxaH06784 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:59:41 - Subject: website jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Here is my new address for my website and the new format. It is still being worked on so give me some feedback.Brethttp://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from homes-sold@home.com Mon Nov 26 12:02:43 2001 fAQI2gH07118 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:02:43 - femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:02:42 -0800 Subject: Re: New rodmakers save $ I still use the blades to work on stubborn areas because I can take off verylittle per pass and see the results better. After the problem areas arestraighten out I use the Lie- Nielsen Scraper to even things out. Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New rodmakers save $ I still use single edge razor blades even with the Lei Nielsen Scraper. Likeyou say, when dull just chuck them. Personally I have found this to be thebest way for me to finish a strip.I do use cheap blades, HF has them on sale at times for 1.97-100 blades.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from SBDunn@aol.com Mon Nov 26 12:19:58 2001 fAQIJvH08325 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:19:57 - for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:19:39 - Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question When I got my bamboo I knocked out all of the dams, immediately. The culms still developed several unwanted splits. Next time I buy bamboo, I think I'll do what somebody suggested a while back and split the culms in half as soon as I get them. Regards, Steve. from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Nov 26 12:21:53 2001 fAQILqH08546 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:21:52 - fAQILp813086 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:21:52 -0600 Subject: Re: New rodmakers save $ Don,I don't have much experience with the Lie-Nielsen scraper yet. Have not hadittoo long.Does it work better than the razor blade.I found I can still scrape some off after using the Lie-Nielsen scraper.I might have to practice using it before I become more proficient with it.Only time will tell.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Don Schneider wrote: I still use the blades to work on stubborn areas because I can take off verylittle per pass and see the results better. After the problem areas arestraighten out I use the Lie- Nielsen Scraper to even things out. Don----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 6:51 PMSubject: Re: New rodmakers save $ I still use single edge razor blades even with the Lei Nielsen Scraper. Likeyou say, when dull just chuck them. Personally I have found this to be thebest way for me to finish a strip.I do use cheap blades, HF has them on sale at times for 1.97-100 blades.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Nov 26 12:35:31 2001 fAQIZVH09208 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:35:31 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question Is there any reason not to split them into 8 or more pieces (assuming therods they will be used for will not need larger strips)? Jason from stoltz10@home.com Mon Nov 26 12:38:18 2001 fAQIcIH09496 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:38:18 - femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Help!! I'm final planing my butt section I have the individual strips to size, =but when I tape it together and measure the flat to flat measurement it =is over sized, So I planed the strips some more so they are a little =under size, but the flat to flat is still over sized, what is going on. I'm final planing my butt section I = individual strips to size, but when I tape it together and measure the = they are a little under size, but the flat to flat is still over sized, = going on. from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Mon Nov 26 12:59:15 2001 fAQIxAH10566 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:59:10 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:59:01 -0800 Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:59:01 GMT Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the qu... FILETIME=[694497C0:01C176AC] The last culms I received had a check split in them, and if they did not, I would have put one in. In addition to the split, I would also drive a rod through the center of the culm and knock out the dams. Those two thingstake out most of the stress in the culm thereby reducing significantly the pops and bangs, AND, most importantly, additional random checks. Water marks, scrapes, leaf nodes and blems are hard enough to dodge without randomchecks adding to the mess, IMHO.Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Nov 26 13:17:51 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fAQJHoH11676 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:17:51 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:17:47 -0600 petermckean@netspace.net.au, jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Subject: RE: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Hardener in fixer hardens the photographic emulsion on the photo paper. Ithas no effect that I know of on its use in darkening nickel silver. Doesfine with or without hardener. If you have a fixer with the hardener in aseparate bottle or pkg, just omit it. If (like Kodak Fixer powder) it hasthe hardener included, don't worry about it. None of the chemicals involvedare dangerous, expecially in the small concentrations involved. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Jeff,What is hardener? Is this also a photo developing solution or something used in gun metal bluing?Jon McAnulty At 09:24 PM 11/26/2001 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Jeff I blue with photo fixer and hardener, and have done for some time. I amvery happy with the results, and have posted several times on the method Iuse.A couple of comments. Without any appreciation of the chemistry involvedhere, I am sort of subjectively convinced the whole thing goes better if Iuse a dab of hardener added to the fixer.I like to wash them in soapy water, rinse well, and defat and dry off with70% alcohol. Used use ether until someone on the list pointed out howdangerous that stuff is. No adverse effects since switching.The "mottling" that you describe is quite a common phenomenon, but thereally weird thing is that it always seems to right itself, and I don'tever leave it any longer than a few minutes in the bath. I just get it out,rinse it and put it aside to dry, and it comes out OK.I also, like you, notice a pretty consistent difference in "take" betweenferrules and reel seat components, but again, in NEARLY every case, minealways seem to sort themselves out before they are dry.Any irregularities can be swabbed up with a Q-tip dipped in the solution.And no, MY Q-tips are NOT tested by Bob Nunley!!! Stay happy Peter from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 26 13:22:07 2001 fAQJM5H12061 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:22:05 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:21:56 -0800 Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question FILETIME=[9CD42DF0:01C176AF] I would at least put a drying split in them or slit them in half. Or, ge=t a six bladed splitter from Hida-Tool (they have a web site) and do at l=east some of them into sixes. You can split into sixes (nice even strips=) as fast or faster than just a drying split. Anyone who saw the demo at= ----- Original Message ----- Subject: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question Friends, I hope the thanksgiving season went well. I've finally caught up on therodmakers emails (1K + emails). Anyway, I'm soon to receive 3 bales of 12' cane at my doorstep and we (Da=veNorling and I) were thinking . . . Do we really need to put drying splits in them? Classic teaching is to put drying splits in your cane and then to store t=hem.However, it must take quite a long time to receive green cane from China'=sharvest to your door. So what do the list's expert bamboo bale-maniacsthink? Does diameter of cane make a difference? Just wanted to stir the pot . . . Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN Mark,I would at least put a drying split in them or slit them in half.&nbs=p; Or, get a six bladed splitter from Hida-Tool (they have a web site)&nb= ----- Original Message ----- From:Bamboomaker@aol.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 200111:27= rodmakers@wugate.wus=tl.edu Subject: To Split or =Not to Split - That is the question on therodmakers emails (1K + emails).Anyway, I'm soon torece=ive 3 bales of 12' cane at my doorstep and we (DaveNorling and I) wer=e thinking . . .Do we really need to put drying splits in them?Classic teaching is to put drying splits in your cane and then to s=tore them.However, it must take quite a long time to receive green ca= diffe=rence?Just wanted to stir the pot . ..Regards,Ma=rkMark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester,MN from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 26 13:24:20 2001 fAQJOJH12314 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:24:19 - (authenticated) Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:23:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Help!! --------------29D93D5E28B21C593002D1F3 Tim Stoltz wrote: I'm final planing my butt section I have the individualstrips to size, but when I tape it together and measurethe flat to flat measurement it is over sized Tim, How did you go about setting your forms? My guess isthat you used a dial indicator and the 60* point has somehowbeen dinged. Below is a post from Chris Bogart that mightbe of help in determining if your dial indicator is incorrect adjustment. In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. One of themis a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of the depthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it works and itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using theplaning form and rods. Here it is:Use the Dial Caliper.Zeroize the Dial CaliperOpen the Dial Caliper up to .100" and lock in place. Now set the Depth Gauge so the tip is in the gap between the two jaws ofthe Dial Caliper and read the depth value. You may need to experiment withways to position the dial caliper to do this.The actual value should be Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times width opened.The Depth gauge in this example should read between .086 and .087 on thedial. Chris Thanks Chris!Harry--Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------29D93D5E28B21C593002D1F3 Tim Stoltz wrote:I'm final planingmy butt section I have the individual strips to size, but when I tape ittogether and measure the flat to flat measurement it is oversizedTim, guess is that you used a dial indicator and the 60* point has somehow been determining if your dial indicator is in correct adjustment. In the shop this weekend I was working on some more articles. One ofthem is a really simple and easy way to check the calibration of the depthgauge. The idea struck me and I had to check it out to see if it works and itreally does! It is really simple to do. A separate method from using the .100" and lock in place. the tip is in the gap between the two jaws of the Dial Caliper and read the caliper to do this. Cosine 30 degrees (0.866) times width opened. Thanks Chris!Harry--Harry Boyd --------------29D93D5E28B21C593002D1F3-- from stoltz10@home.com Mon Nov 26 13:29:45 2001 fAQJTiH12836 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:29:44 - femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:29:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Help!! I use test strips to set my forms forms from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Nov 26 13:31:00 2001 fAQJUvH13048 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:30:58 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:30:47 -0800 Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:30:46 GMT Subject: Re: Help!! FILETIME=[D9233750:01C176B0] Tim: measuring and have wrapped this tape tightly, having no visible glue lines, butstill find the rod to be oversized, your problem is more then likely with yourdial indicator, dial caliper, or both. An easy way to check the calipers is tomeasure it against a known measurement, such as a 1/4 inch drill bit whichwill mic out at .250 thousands. I have a cheap dial calipers and have checkedit against both a pin gauge set and a 1/4 inch drill bit and have found the to allow for the error and my rods are right on the money. to size, but when I tape it together and measure the flat to flatmeasurement it is over sized, So I planed the strips some more so they are alittle under size, but the flat to flat is still over sized, what is going on. Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 26 13:31:49 2001 fAQJVnH13224 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:31:49 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question Ask John Long about this... If I'm not mistaken he uses a Hida 6 waysplitter and splits the full culm and stores it that way.John, Tell them about this and your theory behind doing it. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question Is there any reason not to split them into 8 or more pieces (assuming therods they will be used for will not need larger strips)? Jason from wkifer@harborside.com Mon Nov 26 13:36:14 2001 fAQJa8H13781 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:36:08 - 0000 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question At 11:30 AM 11/26/01, Bob Nunley wrote: Ask John Long about this... If I'm not mistaken he uses a Hida 6 waysplitter and splits the full culm and stores it that way. Bob I'm somewhat curious about this as well. Do you knock out the dams with a rod prior to using the splitter or isn't it necessary? Wayne from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Nov 26 13:59:32 2001 fAQJxVH15260 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:59:31 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:55:38 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods jsschaeffer@hotmail.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: website Bret,seems to work fine, looks good, at first it was kind of slow to load but Ithink the server was at fault, went back and it loaded fine second time,Shawn Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Here is my new address for my website and the new format. It is stillbeingworked on so give me some feedback.Brethttp://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Nov 26 13:59:35 2001 fAQJxZH15270 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:59:35 - NAA03683 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 Subject: Re: Help!! Tim, If your angles are not exactly 60 degrees, the strips will notnest exactly right, and the resulting section will be oversize.You only have to be off by a degree or two to have this happen.Geometry is a cruel master.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Tim Stoltz wrote: I'm final planing my butt section I have the individual strips to size, butwhen I tape it together and measure the flat to flat measurement it is oversized, So I planed the strips some more so they are a little under size, butthe flat to flat is still over sized, what is going on. from stoltz10@home.com Mon Nov 26 14:10:23 2001 fAQKAMH16236 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:10:22 - femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:10:22 -0800 Subject: Re: Help!! I think you hit it Frank, I went rechecked everything and the place where Iwas the most off, and it was not an exact equilateral triangle, thankfullymost of the problem will be under the handle. For the most part I am onlyover by .003-.008, but under the handle and reel seat it is .013. from canazon@mindspring.com Mon Nov 26 14:16:12 2001 fAQKGCH16739 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:16:12 - helo=oemcomputer) id 168SAh-0004E2-00 for RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:16:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Help!! tim,i had a lot of problems with my first blanks (i would call them rods,but they never will be) and i lost a lot of sleep checking my dialindicator, micrometer, etc..none of it was a waste of time because now i think i know how to do allthat. check out chris bogarts page.but i am sure all my problems were caused by poopy angles.mike from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Nov 26 14:16:35 2001 fAQKGUH16819 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:16:30 - Subject: Bait Casting and Tournament Casting Books All,Any of you out there with an interest in either Bait Casting and orTournament Casting ( with same )could you please advise any old/newbooks worth reading ?........thanks......Paul from homes-sold@home.com Mon Nov 26 15:38:11 2001 fAQLcAH21397 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:38:10 - femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Lie-Neilsen No.2 Iron Grooved This is the response I received from Lie-Neilsen about grooving the No.2Bench Plane.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: 2 Iron Grooved Don, I checked into grooving a No. 2 Iron Bench Plane and we can do that for you.The groove is 3/4" wide and .003" in depth. The groove is an additional$25. This is a custom order and will take some time to work into ourproduction schedule. It will probably take two to three weeks. -Michelle from beadman@mac.com Mon Nov 26 15:53:33 2001 fAQLrXH22297 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:53:33 - Subject: Cutting 12' culms When you receive a bale or partial bale of culms that are 12 feet long, and you need to cut them up in order to store them, where do you make the cut? Do you cut exactly halfway regardless of how close that is to a node; do you cut exactly half way between two nodes, fairly close to the center of the 12 foot culm; or do you cut right at a node as close to the center of the 12 foot culm as you can get? Claude from pohl@earthlink.net Mon Nov 26 16:30:12 2001 fAQMU7H23884 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:30:11 - helo=pohl) id 168UGK-0003p8-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:30:04 -0800 Subject: making reel seats Other than a lathe to turn the insert what tools do you need for making yourown seats? Does one buy the hardware or do you cast them? Is there anonlineplace where hardware can be viewed/purchased? What about scrimshaw (iguessthey would have to be fake) inserts? -Mark from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Nov 26 16:32:18 2001 fAQMWIH24133 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:32:18 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.571257 secs); 26 Nov 200122:32:12 -0000 Subject: Re: Payne #96 6 1/2' 2/2 #4 Taper Hi Hal, The drop at the Ferrule is .004" (station 39" is .157" which is themale ferrule on the tip section and station 00" is .161 which is the femaleferrule on the butt section.) I do not know the vintage but would guess '50s.Does anyone else understand my taper format? Marty Harold Bacon wrote: Marty.Do you know the age of the Payne #96. After Jim died most of therods were given a faster taper. But the drop at the ferrule on this rod isnot the std. drop for this rod. The other two rods that you measured whatwas the drop at the ferrule .the three 96 that I own have drops of .008" to.014". The .014" rod was built in the early 50's and the other 2 were builtin the early 60's All three built by Jim. Best Hal Bacon----- Original Message ---- -From: Marty D. aka "none Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 2:09 PMSubject: Payne #96 6 1/2' 2/2 #4 Taper Hi list, I just miked a friends Payne #96 6 1/2' 2pc. 4wt. WOW! Veryaccurate flat to flat dimensions. Nice rod with a fast DF action. Hereare the dimensions. Varnish already deducted. Best, MartyTip Butt00 .066" .161"05 .075 .17110 .092 .18115 .104 .20520 .120 .22325 .131 .23930 .140 .263 start of grip35 .153 .26339 .157 .263 Guide spacing from tip top and tip of female ferrule5 1/2" 3"11 3/4" 12" (stripper)18 1/2"25 5/8"33 1/4" from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Mon Nov 26 16:38:38 2001 fAQMcbH24635 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:38:37 - Subject: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick fAQMccH24636 My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 26 17:20:25 2001 fAQNKKH26438 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:20:20 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick Yep, just picked it up a with this last batch of email, and it shows a viruson my end, too.Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from lkoeser@ceva.net Mon Nov 26 17:22:14 2001 fAQNMDH26627 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:22:13 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:13:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Probably. If your are planing the last 10 -15% when the strips are heattreated and dry, and when the process is the most critical, a sharp planemakes easy short work of the first 85 - 90% when the process is lesscritical. I am a newbie to rod making, having only completed 6 rods, but Idoubt that I will ever plane wet strips with all the associated steps andtrouble just to let my plane iron get too dull to cut easily. Just my $0.02.Everyone must do what one must do. It makes for interesting reading.Lee ---- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? The only con I can think of involves the heating of the strips. If youstraighten and then soak and rough taper your strips, you will get thepressed nodes to return a bit when you heat treat before final planing. Ifyou soak and then straighten, your nodes will be dry and may chip when youplane them. I have yet to figure out the perfect routine for this. I wouldlike to know what others do.I myself split or saw out the strips; flame; straighten, press, and file the nodes; bevel strips to 60 or 90*; soak strips for 48 hours; rough strips to within 10-15% of final dimensions; heat treat for 1 hour at 225 and 8- 10minutes at 350 degrees; press nodes and straighten again if needed; and then final plane.Am I making things too hard on myself?Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BambooRods@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned.I can'ttell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's andcon's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begindocumenting someof the process that has proven to be effective. This especiallysince (to myknowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts? Doug from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Nov 26 17:24:38 2001 fAQNObH26937 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:24:37 - Subject: Re: Blued nickel silver coatings... Tom,I use a product called Sta-Brite. It is a clear coating forbrass lamps, beds, etc. You can buy it from most woodworkingcompanies, such as Constantine's, Woodcraft, etc. It also hasUV protection, which you need to keep the oxidized color fromfading from the sun light. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 26 17:26:28 2001 fAQNQRH27205 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:26:27 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:50:16 -0600 Subject: Fw: making reel seats Mark,I make a lot of my own reel seats and they are machined in a metallathe, not cast, however, you can buy hardware ready to go from almost anyrodmakers supply house. Goldenwitch, Anglers Workshop, Bob Venneri, AlBellinger, Struble, etc. Most of these you can find links for on therodmakers site.As for scrimshaw, yes you can get it done and it does not have to befake ivory. There are no restrictions on mammoth tusks which areabundant.Check places like eBay and other online auctions. You can sometimes findivory on there. Also, consider a hard bone, like buffalo bone. Many use itin place of ivory and it is cheap, if you know someone that raises Bison, orcan find a slaughterhouse in your area that processes them. You can do anet search and you'd be surprised how many commercial Bison ranches thereare in the world. later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark & Kathy Pohl" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 4:24 PMSubject: making reel seats Other than a lathe to turn the insert what tools do you need for making your own seats? Does one buy the hardware or do you cast them? Is there an online place where hardware can be viewed/purchased? What about scrimshaw(i guess they would have to be fake) inserts? -Mark from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 26 17:29:43 2001 fAQNTgH27565 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:29:42 - id 168VC0-0003XS-00; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:29:40 -0500 Subject: Re: making reel seats Mark, I make my hardware from bar stock that I bought from Busby Metal. Ilooked for tubing but all I found was more expensive than the bar. I cut tolength for the part (eg. threaded barrel) and bore to the desired I.D. J&L,Enco etc have expandable mandrels near the size. These can bemachined to the desired size (I use .61"). I made a split brass sleeve to goover the mandrel that I use for the slip ring and end. It allows me to use themandrel with the I.D. of the rings ~ 3/4". The screw I thread to fit thethreaded barrel. I made a freehand rest to bolt onto the swivel on my latheand use hand tools (look up "gravers" on the Sherline web page). I also madea wooden handle for my knurling tool so I could put a knurl on a roundedsurface. straight bit and a fingernail bit. I put a spur in my lathe headstock andmount the blank between the spur and the tailstock center. I mount theDremel (via a flexible shaft) to the toolpost and use the router bit (withDremel running) as the lathe bit and turn down about 3/4" of one end of theblank so that it is round (for a 1" square blank, this would be just under 1"). Ithen mount the blank in the three jaw chuck using the part I turned down. Oryou can mount the unturned blank in a four jaw chuck. Anyway, the nextstep is to drill a hole lengthwise through the blank. For the actual turning ofthe blank, I made a holder from 1/2" round aluminum rod. This is two piecesof rod with one end of each piece turned down to the diameter of the holeyou drilled in the blank with a turned area of ~2" long. The length of the rodsare about 4" in my case. One of these is "dimpled" on the opposite end !! from the turned end so it will center on the tailstock center. The length ofthe "tool, arbor or whatever it's called) is long enough so I can maneuver mytrim router the length of the block without running into either the tailstockor chuck. I mount my trim router on the toolpost using a milling attachment(see Varmint Al's webpage for the cheapie). Now all I have to do is set thetrim router with the straight bit to the depth of cut, turn both lathe androuter on and let the power drive run the router down the blank. I make asecond cut for the stepdown for the threaded barrel and a third for theunder cork end of my uplocking reel seat. When I have these like I wantthem, I replace the straight bit with a fingernail bit and with the lathe OFF, Icenter the blank and cut the mortise. All that is left is to finish sand andpaint the finish on. Hope this makes sense. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com pohl@earthlink.net wrote: Other than a lathe to turn the insert what tools do you need for makingyour own seats? Does one buy the hardware or do you cast them? Is there anonlineplace where hardware can be viewed/purchased? What about scrimshaw (iguessthey would have to be fake) inserts? -Mark from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 17:48:04 2001 fAQNlwH28348 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:48:03 - helo=default) id 168VTh-0006Ct-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:47:58 -0500 Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick Gary's post came in right after Carsten's, and it gave me a heads-up. Thesubject line was similar to the SirCam and that other numerically namedvirus, being something about Advice Needed. Gary's post went immediately toopen the attachment, and if I had not had my program set to give me theoption of either saving or opening the attachment I might have just thenbeen infected. Never had an attachment before that tried to open itself ofits own volition. My viral program also issued an alert, but the optionwindow appeared over the top of the virus alert window, thus obscuring it. Let's hope another round of the List Plague hasn't been made manifest again. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 26 17:53:07 2001 fAQNr6H28727 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:53:06 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:16:59 -0600 Subject: Re: making reel seats Mark,Here's a list of places you can get hardware if you want to turn yourown fillers. Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.htmlEXCELLENT HardwareTony Larson No Website, email pumpkin10@prodigy.net Top Notch Paynestyle C&RBob Venerri http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html EXCELLENTHardwareTony Young http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/prodpage.htm Greatstuff from Down underGoldenwtich http://www.goldenwitch.com Carries Several top notchhardware setsAnglers Workshop http://www.anglersworkshop.com Carries everythingfromgreat to cheap There are more out there, but if you can't find what you need from theseguys, nobody else is going to have it. Later,bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Fw: making reel seats Mark,I make a lot of my own reel seats and they are machined in a metallathe, not cast, however, you can buy hardware ready to go from almostanyrodmakers supply house. Goldenwitch, Anglers Workshop, Bob Venneri, AlBellinger, Struble, etc. Most of these you can find links for on therodmakers site.As for scrimshaw, yes you can get it done and it does not have to befake ivory. There are no restrictions on mammoth tusks which are abundant. Check places like eBay and other online auctions. You can sometimes findivory on there. Also, consider a hard bone, like buffalo bone. Many use it in place of ivory and it is cheap, if you know someone that raises Bison, or can find a slaughterhouse in your area that processes them. You can do anet search and you'd be surprised how many commercial Bison ranchesthereare in the world. later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark & Kathy Pohl" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 4:24 PMSubject: making reel seats Other than a lathe to turn the insert what tools do you need for making your own seats? Does one buy the hardware or do you cast them? Is therean online place where hardware can be viewed/purchased? What aboutscrimshaw (i guess they would have to be fake) inserts? -Mark from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 17:56:08 2001 fAQNu8H29035 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:56:08 - helo=default) id 168Vbb-0007ip-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:56:07 -0500 Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick Just now, as I was sending my last post, I got another post from a man withwhom I had corresponded some months before about his Quick ChangeToolpost same in that the attachment tried to self-execute.BE WARNED! M-D from HomeyDKlown@att.net Mon Nov 26 18:05:04 2001 fAR053H29624 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:05:03 - Subject: RE: making reel seats I think it was last night that I saw a post from Bill Harms saying that heuses a router table instead of a lathe to make his seats. I'd be interestedin learning more about that if it isn't stepping on any toes. That OK with you Bill? Thanx, Dennis PS: If not, that's OK too. -----Original Message----- Subject: making reel seats Other than a lathe to turn the insert what tools do you need for making yourown seats? Does one buy the hardware or do you cast them? Is there anonlineplace where hardware can be viewed/purchased? What about scrimshaw (iguessthey would have to be fake) inserts? -Mark from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Nov 26 18:23:58 2001 fAR0NwH00367 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:23:58 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:23:41 -0800 Subject: Re: Bait Casting and Tournament Casting Books FILETIME=[C46E7A80:01C176D9] Paul,Check out the American Casting Association on the web and also the Golden=Gate Casting Club. In addition to a lot of interesting reading about ca= ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bait Casting and Tournament Casting Books All,Any of you out there with an interest in either Bait Casting and orTournament Casting ( with same )could you please advise any old/newbooks worth reading ?........thanks......Paul Paul, Check out the American Casting Association on the web and also the Gol= casting.&n= paul.blakley Sent: Monday, November26, 2= Rodmakers Subject: Bait Casting andTour= out th=ere with an interest in either Bait Casting and orTournament Casting =( with same )could you please advise any old/newbooks worth reading ?=........thanks......Paul from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Mon Nov 26 18:26:47 2001 fAR0QkH00650 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:26:46 - Subject: silk line question Hi, Does anyone have experience with / knowledge of Christian Billard WhisperTaper silk fly line? It supposedly comes in a leather case with some linesalve, and it's made in France. TIA,David and Kat from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Nov 26 18:33:33 2001 fAR0XWH01193 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:33:33 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:29:38 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn't come tothe list>Either that or I'm not getting all the messages??Shawn Carsten Jorgensen wrote: My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from homes-sold@home.com Mon Nov 26 18:39:45 2001 fAR0diH01636 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:39:44 - femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:39:43 -0800 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick Same here Shawn. I ran my anti virus software just to be sure- nothing.Don-- --- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn't come tothelist>Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn Carsten Jorgensen wrote: My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from lblan@provide.net Mon Nov 26 18:42:22 2001 fAR0gMH01925 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:42:22 - for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:42:20 - Subject: RE: Bowling Alley Wax The subject of building multiple wax coats came up recently. I looked at acan of Briwax and a can of Myland's this weekend. The directions on bothcans stated that multiple coats will provide a deeper and glossier finish.Interestingly enough, the Briwax contains toluene, I would have suspectedthat each successive coat would effectively dissolve or blend with anyprevious coat. This appears not to be the case, if the directions are to bebelieved. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu SchaackSent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:23 AM Subject: Bowling Alley Wax Thanks for all the replies! I stripped the rod Wednesday night, except for the wraps, cleaned it withminerals spirits and then rubbing alcohol. Rubbed in two coats of wax. Oneon Wednesday night one in between plate loads of turkey Thursday. Fishedthe rod for 4 hours Saturday and then again on Sunday in the rain, held upperfectly. Removing the varnish did help stiffen the rod back to where Iliked it. Turned over those tiny #22-#24 BWO's like a dream! Peter from lblan@provide.net Mon Nov 26 18:47:00 2001 fAR0kxH02296 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:46:59 - for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:46:58 - Subject: RE: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick My ISP uses McAfee on the mail server. It filters out infected email. Inever saw the Plowick post, but my guess is that it occurred at my ISP. Isit possible yours is doing something similar? Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:37 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn'tcome to the list>Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn Carsten Jorgensen wrote: My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Nov 26 18:51:53 2001 fAR0pqH02754 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:51:52 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: silk line question D&K, Check http://www.flyshop.com/centers/industry/09- 99newprods/prods.htmlAt $275 per line a leather case is certainly appropriate. [:)] Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott wrote: Hi, Does anyone have experience with / knowledge of Christian Billard WhisperTaper silk fly line? It supposedly comes in a leather case with some linesalve, and it's made in France. TIA,David and Kat . -- > from bob@downandacross.com Mon Nov 26 18:53:55 2001 Received: From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I got two or three infectedposts in the last day or so. McCaffee caught it really fast. Like Bob N, I wassurprised when the file tried to open all by itself. -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Larry Blan Sent: Monday, Plowick My ISP uses McAfee on the mail server. It filters out infected email. Inever saw the Plowick post, but my guess is that it occurred at my ISP. Is itpossible yours is doing something similar? Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:37 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn'tcome to the list>Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn Carsten Jorgensen wrote: My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 19:12:17 2001 fAR1CGH04079 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:12:16 -0600 helo=default) id 168WnH-0004OM-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:12:15 -0500 Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick I'm pretty sure that it came through the List, as I have never correspondedwith Gary, nor gotten anything from him. I think some of you guys must haveISPs that block certain infected e-mail. M-D He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn't come to the list> Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Nov 26 19:15:32 2001 fAR1FRH04371 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:15:27 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: making reel seats I tried sending the virus back to who ever sent it and it come back userunknown..Thanks Dave ----- Original Message ----- Subject: making reel seats Other than a lathe to turn the insert what tools do you need for making your own seats? Does one buy the hardware or do you cast them? Is there an online place where hardware can be viewed/purchased? What about scrimshaw (i guess they would have to be fake) inserts? -Mark from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 19:20:19 2001 fAR1KIH04760 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:20:18 -0600 helo=default) id 168Wv3-0007vf-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:20:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Bowling Alley Wax This is what I would have thought. M-D Interestingly enough, the Briwax contains toluene, I would have suspectedthat each successive coat would effectively dissolve or blend with anyprevious coat. Larry Blan from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 19:35:34 2001 fAR1ZXH05556 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:35:33 -0600 helo=default) id 168X9m-0000F0-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:35:31 -0500 Subject: Re: silk line question Since this is a 3M company, I betting that the line is either a Thebault ora Phoenix, that has been repackaged, as I doubt that 3M has gone to theexpense to manufacture silk lines. They may have deep pockets, but they'renot crazy. Besides, the SA division has never been much of a money makerforthem, though that may change with their acquisition of all those companies. M-D D&K,Check http://www.flyshop.com/centers/industry/09- 99newprods/prods.htmlAt $275 per line a leather case is certainly appropriate. [:)] Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott wrote: Hi, Does anyone have experience with / knowledge of Christian Billard Whisper Taper silk fly line? It supposedly comes in a leather case with some line salve, and it's made in France. TIA,David and Kat . -- from richjez@enteract.com Mon Nov 26 19:57:52 2001 fAR1voH06781 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:57:50 -0600 Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT NonRod Making --=====================_10027871==_.ALT As an aside, the new version of Outlook, XP, does not accept attachments that MS has deemed unsafe. There is a long list including exe, com, excell files and a lot more. MS offerers a work around that requires editing the registry. It is so nice to see Bill protecting us from bugs. Unfortunately, the update needed for my part time job could not be received by the shop due to this. They sent the update as an attachment. As a "positive" note is that MS is offering the regular version of office XP at a discount for students and educators. I paid $149 + shipping for a full version. What would we do without Bill? Rich Jezioro At 07:11 PM 11/26/01, Jojo DeLancier wrote: I'm pretty sure that it came through the List, as I have never correspondedwith Gary, nor gotten anything from him. I think some of you guys musthaveISPs that block certain infected e-mail. M-D From: "Shawn Pineo" He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn't cometo the list> Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn --=====================_10027871==_.ALT As an aside, the new version of Outlook, XP, does not acceptattachments that MS has deemed unsafe. There is a long list includingexe, com, excell files and a lot more. MS offerers a work around thatrequires editing the registry. It is so nice to see Bill protecting us from bugs. Unfortunately, the update needed for my part time job couldnot be received by the shop due to this. They sent the update as anattachment. As a "positive" note is that MS is offering the regular versionof office XP at a discount for students and educators. I paid $149 +shipping for a full version. What would we do without Bill? Rich Jezioro At 07:11 PM 11/26/01, Jojo DeLancier wrote:I'm pretty sure that it came through the List,as I have never correspondedwith Gary, nor gotten anything from him. I think some of you guys musthaveISPs that block certain infected e-mail. M-D come to Shawn --=====================_10027871==_.ALT-- from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Mon Nov 26 19:59:53 2001 fAR1xlH07005 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:59:47 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:59:39 +1100 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? FILETIME=[2C383A90:01C176E7] I mentioned this before, but when you have some rather old culms thatwere heat treated many years ago, that cane is really hard. Soaking thestrips in these circumstances is a real relief. Sean Lee Koeser wrote: Probably. If your are planing the last 10 -15% when the strips are heattreated and dry, and when the process is the most critical, a sharp planemakes easy short work of the first 85 - 90% when the process is lesscritical. I am a newbie to rod making, having only completed 6 rods, but Idoubt that I will ever plane wet strips with all the associated steps andtrouble just to let my plane iron get too dull to cut easily. Just my $0.02.Everyone must do what one must do. It makes for interesting reading.Lee ---- Original Message -----From: "Bob Maulucci" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 12:14 AMSubject: RE: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? The only con I can think of involves the heating of the strips. If youstraighten and then soak and rough taper your strips, you will get thepressed nodes to return a bit when you heat treat before final planing. Ifyou soak and then straighten, your nodes will be dry and may chip whenyouplane them. I have yet to figure out the perfect routine for this. I wouldlike to know what others do.I myself split or saw out the strips; flame; straighten, press, and file the nodes; bevel strips to 60 or 90*; soak strips for 48 hours; rough strips to within 10-15% of final dimensions; heat treat for 1 hour at 225 and 8- 10minutes at 350 degrees; press nodes and straighten again if needed; and then final plane.Am I making things too hard on myself?Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BambooRods@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned.I can'ttell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's andcon's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begindocumenting someof the process that has proven to be effective. This especiallysince (to myknowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts? Doug from caneman@clnk.com Mon Nov 26 20:14:22 2001 fAR2ELH07913 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:14:21 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick Just got another virus, or so my AntiVirus says, as a PIF attachment fromBob Summers. Sent him an email to let him know he has a problem.Funny... this virus seems to be originating from actual canerodmakers... don't reckon the Graphite folks are doing this, do you? LOL Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick I got two or three infected posts in the last day or so. McCaffee caught itreally fast. Like Bob N, I was surprised when the file tried to open all byitself. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick My ISP uses McAfee on the mail server. It filters out infected email. Inever saw the Plowick post, but my guess is that it occurred at my ISP. Isit possible yours is doing something similar? Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:37 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn'tcome to the list>Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn Carsten Jorgensen wrote: My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Nov 26 20:15:29 2001 fAR2FOH08041 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:15:24 - helo=g2t8c9) id 168XmD-0002b7-00; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:15:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bill, That is the most honest review of wet planing I have ever heard. Sometimeswhat we like is most important thing.You like your cane hard, warm and noisy....reminds me of a joke I can nottell in mixed company.LOL Best regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Man! Talk about an old fart who's set in his ways!! So, I thought, "tohell with all this stuff!" (well, in real life, I would never use suchlanguage), and it's back to what I know, and what I like. cheers, Bill from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 20:18:41 2001 fAR2IfH08351 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:18:41 -0600 helo=default) id 168XpX-0006O2-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:18:39 -0500 Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick It's a conspiracy!!! Actually, it is just the virus replicating itself through the address bookof the victim. M-D Just got another virus, or so my AntiVirus says, as a PIF attachment fromBob Summers. Sent him an email to let him know he has a problem.Funny... this virus seems to be originating from actual canerodmakers... don't reckon the Graphite folks are doing this, do you? LOL Later,Bob from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Nov 26 20:24:23 2001 fAR2OMH08774 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:24:22 - for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:24:10 - Subject: Re: Cutting 12' culms The answer might depend on if you are going to make a nodeless rod or not, but in general you won't be too far off no matter what construction method cutting on a node as close to the middle as you can.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/26/01 1:54:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,beadman@mac.com writes: When you receive a bale or partial bale of culms that are 12 feet long, and you need to cut them up in order to store them, where do you make the cut? Do you cut exactly halfway regardless of how close that is to a node; do you cut exactly half way between two nodes, fairly close to the center of the 12 foot culm; or do you cut right at a node as close to the center of the 12 foot culm as you can get? Claude The answer might depend on if you are going to make a nodeless rod or not,but in general you won't be too far off no matter what construction methodcutting on a node as close to the middle as you can.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/26/01 1:54:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,beadman@mac.com writes: When you receive a baleor partial bale of culms that are 12 feet long, and you need to cut them up in order to store them, where do that is to a node; do you cut exactly half way between two nodes, fairly close to the center of the 12 foot culm; or do you cut right at a node as close to the center of the 12 foot culm as you can get? Claude from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Nov 26 21:09:32 2001 fAR39WH10917 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:09:32 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: 6' Bamboo culms OK, so according to the Garrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short formost rod lengths using his recommended node staggering method. So, isthereanother way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 footbamboo poles? Jason from mschaffer@mindspring.com Mon Nov 26 21:22:53 2001 fAR3MrH11698 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:22:53 - helo=computer) id 168YpX-0001Tw-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:22:43 -0500 Subject: Re: buying a Plane I second what Larry just said about leaving the blade in and under pressurewhile flattening the sole. I didn't initially and found out to my chagrimlater that thr sole will flex under pressure, mind you, not a lot, butenough that I had to go back and reflatten.Mike----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: buying a Plane Most of the "experts" in the woodworking mags advise leavingthe blade in place, but retracted just enough to clear thesole. This is supposed to let you flatten the sole with thesame stresses applied to the casting that will be present inactual use. Larry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Nov 26 21:26:00 2001 fAR3PxH12004 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:25:59 - Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I just did a virus scan and came up squeaky clean so my computer mustcapture these things before they happen. I know I have tried to open things and my computer warns me if it is infected and wont let me open them. Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Nov 26 21:34:32 2001 fAR3YWH12512 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:34:32 - for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:34:10 - Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms 3x3 will conserve the most length of your bamboo. All of it in fact if you flip every other strip end for end.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/26/01 7:10:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, jvswan@earthlink.net writes: OK, so according to the Garrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short formost rod lengths using his recommended node staggering method. So, is thereanother way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 footbamboo poles? 3x3 will conserve the most length of your bamboo. All of it in fact if you flipevery other strip end for end.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/26/01 7:10:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,jvswan@earthlink.net writes:OK, so according to theGarrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short for is thereanother way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 footbamboo poles? from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Mon Nov 26 21:39:49 2001 fAR3dmH12970 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:39:48 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:39:47 PST Subject: A.J. Campbell book Does the A.J. Campbell book have any information onthe early low end trade rods? This rod is one ofthose with a sheet cork grip, broom handle dowel goingthrough the long metal downlock slide band seats, alarge conical winding check, and shouldered, unweltedferrules with a pin through one side. The enamel wasnot even scraped away from the strips and the nodeswere filed down flat leaving coarse file marks on theblank. A real nasty looking rod, but an excellentrepresentative of some of the early mass produced lowend hardware store rods. I would like to learn moreabout these rods and an approximate age. Thanks. Chrisblitzenrods@yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 26 21:42:15 2001 fAR3gEH13266 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:42:14 - (authenticated) Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:41:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Cutting 12' culms Claude, Even in my tiny little off-garage workshop I have found it possibleto store the culms in their full 12' lengths. I've got them wired to theceiling to keep them out of my way! That's certainly ideal, but notpossible for everyone. If I were forced to cut the culms, I would chooseto cut very close to a node, and plan on discarding that node later. One thing worth considering is cutting the culms to the lengthsneeded to build rods of a certain length. For instance, to build 7'6"two piece rods, I know I need about 58" of bamboo for butts and tips.45" finished strip length + 4" for leeway + 9" for staggering nodes =58".I usually try to observe Jon Bokstrom's recommendations to keep nodes5" away from tiptops and ferrules, so I make sure there are no nodeswithin 7" of either end, then whack out the section I need. I do wind upthrowing away some bamboo that way, but hey, bamboo is cheap comparedtothe rest of the stuff that goes into a rod. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: When you receive a bale or partial bale of culms that are 12 feetlong, and you need to cut them up in order to store them, where doyou make the cut? Do you cut exactly halfway regardless of how closethat is to a node; do you cut exactly half way between two nodes,fairly close to the center of the 12 foot culm; or do you cut rightat a node as close to the center of the 12 foot culm as you can get? Claude -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Nov 26 21:43:18 2001 fAR3hCH13420 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:43:12 - for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:43:01 - Subject: Re: buying a Plane It doesn't matter if your plane is absolutley flat or not. Unlike cabinet sides or fronts, or table tops, where flatness matters, we are removing shavings until we are stopped by a steel form. We can't dish or dome our strips.Most good quality planes are fine right out of the box.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/26/01 7:23:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, mschaffer@mindspring.com writes: I second what Larry just said about leaving the blade in and under pressurewhile flattening the sole. I didn't initially and found out to my chagrimlater that thr sole will flex under pressure, mind you, not a lot, butenough that I had to go back and reflatten.Mike It doesn't matter if your plane is absolutley flat or not. Unlike cabinet sidesor fronts, or table tops, where flatness matters, we are removing shavingsuntil we are stopped by a steel form. We can't dish or dome our strips.Most good quality planes are fine right out of the box.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/26/01 7:23:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,mschaffer@mindspring.com writes:I second what Larry justsaid about leaving the blade in and under pressurewhile flattening the sole. I didn't initially and found out to my chagrimlater that thr sole will flex under pressure, mind you, not a lot, butenough that I had to go back and reflatten.Mike from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 21:50:32 2001 fAR3oRH14104 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:50:31 -0600 helo=default) id 168ZGL-0000Tg-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:50:25 -0500 Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms Too short for a spiral pattern, or a Chevy 6, is really dependant upon thenode spacing. If you'll use 11/2" node center to node center you'll use up 9"of cane just for the stagger. With a 2 x 2 x 2, using 3" between nodesyou'll use only 6"of cane for the stagger, and if you use a 3 x 3 x 3 youcan get by with whatever you want/need to make it work. M-D OK, so according to the Garrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short for most rod lengths using his recommended node staggering method. So, is there another way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 footbamboo poles? Jason from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 21:57:42 2001 fAR3vfH14593 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:57:41 -0600 helo=default) id 168ZNM-00007E-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:57:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Cutting 12' culms Ditto. If I were to cut culms into sections I would first measure to the 6'mark, then see where my nearest node was. If it were, say 4" from the mostforward node in the butt section I would cut there, but let's say it wasright on a node. I'd measure up 3" from that node and cut. Why? Because Ileave a minimum of three inches in front of my last node on the rod, whichwill either be under ferrule, or thereabouts, or under tiptop, if perhapsonly a little. Only in limited circumstances would I cut right on the 6' mark. Before Istarted buying in bulk 12' bales I always seemed to have problems with culmsthat had been cut right at 6'. The node spacing would never work out, unlessI used a 2 x 2 x 2, or a 3 x 3 x 3, which I didn't want to do. M-D Claude, Even in my tiny little off-garage workshop I have found it possibleto store the culms in their full 12' lengths. I've got them wired to theceiling to keep them out of my way! That's certainly ideal, but notpossible for everyone. If I were forced to cut the culms, I would chooseto cut very close to a node, and plan on discarding that node later. One thing worth considering is cutting the culms to the lengthsneeded to build rods of a certain length. For instance, to build 7'6"two piece rods, I know I need about 58" of bamboo for butts and tips.45" finished strip length + 4" for leeway + 9" for staggering nodes =58".I usually try to observe Jon Bokstrom's recommendations to keep nodes5" away from tiptops and ferrules, so I make sure there are no nodeswithin 7" of either end, then whack out the section I need. I do wind upthrowing away some bamboo that way, but hey, bamboo is cheap comparedtothe rest of the stuff that goes into a rod. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: When you receive a bale or partial bale of culms that are 12 feetlong, and you need to cut them up in order to store them, where doyou make the cut? Do you cut exactly halfway regardless of how closethat is to a node; do you cut exactly half way between two nodes,fairly close to the center of the 12 foot culm; or do you cut rightat a node as close to the center of the 12 foot culm as you can get? Claude -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Nov 26 21:59:20 2001 fAR3xKH14779 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:59:20 - (authenticated) Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:58:58 -0800 Subject: Re: buying a Plane --------------928296EAC300CE72DEE50E2D DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: It doesn't matter if your plane is absolutleyflat or not. Unlike cabinet sides or fronts, ortable tops, where flatness matters, we areremoving shavings until we are stopped by asteel form. We can't dish or dome our strips.Most good quality planes are fine right out ofthe box. Darryl, Gotta question you here. If the sole of theplane is concave, will it not tend to lift thebamboo out of the forms, causing undersizedstrips? If the plane's sole is convex, will itnot be difficult to consistently keep the blade onthe forms? Seems to me that it would be easy tolet the plane rest on either the leading ortrailing end rather than at the precise point ofthe blade... Also, would it not constantly changethe angle of attack from blade to bamboo as theconvex soled plane rocked and rolled back andforth? Just asking,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------928296EAC300CE72DEE50E2D DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Itdoesn't matter if your plane is absolutley flat or not. Unlike cabinetsides or fronts, or table tops, where flatness matters, we are removingshavings until we are stopped by a steel form. We can't dish or dome ourstrips.Mostgood quality planes are fine right out of thebox.Darryl, plane is concave, will it not tend to lift the bamboo out of the forms, to me that it would be easy to let the plane rest on either the leading Also, would it not constantly change the angle of attack from blade tobamboo as the convex soled plane rocked and rolled back and forth? -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------928296EAC300CE72DEE50E2D-- from richjez@enteract.com Mon Nov 26 22:03:15 2001 fAR43EH15141 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:03:14 - Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question --=====================_17546806==_.ALT Those who went through Canada to get to Michigan have been known to play tricks. Just ask any Canadian customs agent. Rich At 10:57 AM 11/26/01, Grayson Davis wrote: On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:25:33 EST Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Do we really need to put drying splits in them? I won't forget my 2nd, 3rd & 4th culms. I bought them atthe Greyrock meeting and put them in my van, right besidemy bedroll. That night about 2AM, some doggone punk threwa marble right onto the top of my van and woke me up. Igot out in my skivvies and looked for the swine, but theywere hiding. I couldn't see a dent, so I went back to bed.About an hour later they did it again, so I got dressed,picked up my maglight (the big honker that doubles as ablackjack) and looked all over for them ... nothin'nowheres! I got partway back in my roll, leaving myclothes on for a speedy chase. I was still wide awake,hoping for another chance about forty minutes later, when Iheard that marble hit the sheet metal again, only thistime it was inside the van. Not only that, I felt the culmjump beside my leg as it auto-check split. Those thingsare loud! -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University --=====================_17546806==_.ALT Those who went through Canada to get to Michigan have been Rich At 10:57 AM 11/26/01, Grayson Davis wrote: On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:25:33 ESTBamboomaker@aol.com wrote: the Greyrock meeting and put them in my van, right beside got out in my skivvies and looked for the swine, but they About an hour later they did it again, so I got dressed, picked up my maglight (the big honker that doubles as a blackjack) and looked all over for them ... nothin' hoping for another chance about forty minutes later, when I heard that marble hit the sheet metal again, only this are loud! -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University --=====================_17546806==_.ALT-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 26 22:11:34 2001 fAR4BSH15747 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:11:28 - helo=excalibur.ix.netcom.com) id 168ZaT-0004wz-00; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:11:14 -0500 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick fAR4BXH15750 no, I got exactly the same thing from the 7x10minilathe list. I sent it back and it also came back "address unknown". Real looking. Had your .pif file and two others. It claimed there was a new file loaded into the 7x10minilathe web page. Same wording as used for real notifications. I also got the Rodmakers related one but the guts had been stripped out of it. Nothing left but the address. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 08:13 PM 11/26/01 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: Just got another virus, or so my AntiVirus says, as a PIF attachment fromBob Summers. Sent him an email to let him know he has a problem.Funny... this virus seems to be originating from actual canerodmakers... don't reckon the Graphite folks are doing this, do you? LOL Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Bob Maulucci" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 6:52 PMSubject: RE: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick I got two or three infected posts in the last day or so. McCaffee caught itreally fast. Like Bob N, I was surprised when the file tried to open all byitself. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: RE: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick My ISP uses McAfee on the mail server. It filters out infected email. Inever saw the Plowick post, but my guess is that it occurred at my ISP. Isit possible yours is doing something similar? Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:37 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn'tcome to the list>Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn Carsten Jorgensen wrote: My Macaffee anti virus tells methere is a virus in an e-mail fromthe above titled "Rod Wrapper" rgards, carsten jorgensen from rsgould@cmc.net Mon Nov 26 22:12:53 2001 fAR4CqH15902 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:12:52 - Subject: Re: A.J. Campbell book Hi Chris,Yes Campbells book does mention the cheap rods made with sheet cork grips.See page 171 where he describes the Horrocks Ibbotson rods.Ray Gould----- Original Message ----- Subject: A.J. Campbell book Does the A.J. Campbell book have any information onthe early low end trade rods? This rod is one ofthose with a sheet cork grip, broom handle dowel goingthrough the long metal downlock slide band seats, alarge conical winding check, and shouldered, unweltedferrules with a pin through one side. The enamel wasnot even scraped away from the strips and the nodeswere filed down flat leaving coarse file marks on theblank. A real nasty looking rod, but an excellentrepresentative of some of the early mass produced lowend hardware store rods. I would like to learn moreabout these rods and an approximate age. Thanks. Chrisblitzenrods@yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 22:40:29 2001 fAR4eTH17056 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:40:29 -0600 helo=default) id 168a2X-0000cJ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:40:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? I started soaking solely for the purpose of straightening the nodes. Anyplaning I do is rough, on the milling machine, to do the start taper, then Ibind, and heat treat. I've never noticed any chipping at the nodes thatwasn't due to my fault for taking too big a bite with the plane, or havingthe throat opened too wide. I recall Jon Bokstrom saying that he did notadvocate soaking strips solely for the purpose of planing. In testing, it takes at least 3 days to get sufficient saturation in thestrips to facilitate the straightening process. The water conducts the heatfar better than does the raw bamboo, and takes me 45 sec - 1 min of heatapplication per node. The nodes don't pop back when heat treating (thoughthis has happened only slightly on rare occasion), and I've never had astrip break at a node. The strips dry quickly in the ambient atmosphere, butare still damp when I run them through the milling machine. There is amarked difference in the amount of energy required to push/pull the stripsthrough the machine, and an audible difference, as well. I've hand planedthem for roughing too, and there is a substantial difference over drystrips. M-D Guys,I just finished several rods that had been soaked and wetplaned. I can't tell you how great it went. That made me think, what are the pro's andcon's? Perhaps a thread and maybe even someone could begindocumenting some of the process that has proven to be effective. This especially since (to my knowledge) this is reasonably new in terms of writings at least. Thoughts? Doug from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Nov 26 22:50:53 2001 fAR4oqH17498 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:50:52 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Martin Keanes book Can someone tell me why this guy books are so expensive??? Thanks Dave Can someone tell me why this guy books areso from jojo@ipa.net Mon Nov 26 23:17:49 2001 fAR5HhH18302 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:17:48 -0600 helo=default) id 168aco-0006EW-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:17:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Martin Keanes book Because they aren't in print any more, and some people, having more = If anyone flames me for this you will have instantly outed yourself as =someone who has more money than sense, so let's be ve-wy, ve-wy ca-ful =here guys. ;o) M-D Can someone tell me why this guy books are so expensive??? Thanks =Dave Because they aren't in= If anyone flames me have instantly outed yourself as someone who has more money than sense, = M-D Can someone tell me why this guy = Dave from wkifer@harborside.com Mon Nov 26 23:50:03 2001 fAR5o2H19462 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:50:02 - 0000 Subject: Splitting I guess I'll have to post this question again as I didn't get a reply. Do you knock out the dams with a rod prior to using the splitter or isn't it necessary? Doesn't seem like a hard question. Wayne from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Nov 26 23:59:00 2001 fAR5wxH19909 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:58:59 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Martin Keanes book I heard he was doing another book as we speak... Thanks dave----- Original Message ----- From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:16 PMSubject: Re: Martin Keanes book Because they aren't in print any more, and some people, having more moneythan sense, want one very, very badly. If anyone flames me for this you will have instantly outed yourself assomeone who has more money than sense, so let's be ve-wy, ve-wy ca- fulhere guys. ;o) M-D From: Davesrods Can someone tell me why this guy books are so expensive??? Thanks Dave I heard he was doing another book as wespeak... ----- Original Message ----- From: JojoDeLancier Sent: Monday, November 26, 200111:16 PMSubject: Re: Martin Keanesbook Because they aren't in printany If anyone flames me for thisyou will have instantly outed yourself as someone who has more money thansense, ;o) M-D From: Davesrods Can someone tell me why this guy books areso Dave from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Tue Nov 27 00:57:16 2001 fAR6vFH22043 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:57:15 - 26 Nov 2001 22:57:15 PST Subject: Re: Bait Casting and Tournament Casting Books RodmakersPost Paul,Not entirely sure what your looking for but threebooks come to mind: 1) Netherton, Cliff. History of the Sport of Casting:People, Events, Records, Tackle & Literature, EarlyTimes, Am. Casting Education Fndn. [1981] 2) Netherton, Cliff. History of the Sport of Casting:Golden Years 1907- 1938, Am. Casting Education Fndn.[1983] 3) Osten, Earl, Tournament Fly & Bait-Casting,A.S.Barnes & Co. [1946] - Has some rod tapers for eachevent. John is right about checking out the clubs. In myopinion clubs that regularly participate in castingtournaments are really the best place to learn moreabout this particular sport which is correctly calledFly & Plug casting. A few clubs on the west coast areThe Golden Gate Angling & Casting Club (SanFrancisco), The Oakland Casting Club and The LongBeach club. Also, try visiting this web site:http://home.att.net/~slowsnap/index.htm Best of luck,Chris --- John Long wrote: Paul,Check out the American Casting Association on theweb and also the Golden Gate Casting Club. Inaddition to a lot of interesting reading aboutcasting, I have seen references to many books aboutcasting. John Long ----- Original Message -----From: paul.blakleySent: Monday, November 26, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: Bait Casting and Tournament Casting Books All,Any of you out there with an interest in either BaitCasting and orTournament Casting ( with same )could you pleaseadvise any old/newbooks worth reading ?........thanks......Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from DNHayashida@aol.com Tue Nov 27 01:05:16 2001 fAR75GH22583 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:05:16 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:05:05 - Subject: Re: buying a Plane What you say is true, but I personally haven't seen any good planes (not the cheap made in India or China, etc) that were that far off to make any difference.Darryl In a message dated 11/26/01 7:59:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: Darryl, Gotta question you here. If the sole of the plane is concave, will it not tend to lift the bamboo out of the forms, causing undersized strips? If the plane's sole is convex, will it not be difficult to consistently keep the blade on the forms? Seems to me that it would be easy to let the plane rest on either the leading or trailing end rather than at the precise point of the blade... Also, would it not constantly change the angle of attack from blade to bamboo as the convex soled plane rocked and rolled back and forth? Just asking, Harry -- Whatyou say is true, but I personally haven't seen any good planes (not the cheapmade in India or China, etc) that were that far off to make anydifference.Darryl In a message dated 11/26/01 7:59:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: If the plane's sole is convex, will it not be difficult to consistently keep the plane rest on either the leading or trailing end rather than at the precise attack from blade to bamboo as the convex soled plane rocked and rolled from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Nov 27 01:32:53 2001 fAR7WpH23525 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:32:51 - Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:32:38 -0800 Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:32:38 GMT Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms FILETIME=[B083A2C0:01C17715] As mentioned before the 3X3 makes the best use of the bamboo, I mostoften will stagger 3 full culms with another 3 full culms. You have to sort the cane into similiar node spacing piles first. I stagger about 20 - 30 culms at a time and store them in a rack bundled together after cutting them into either 50" or 36" pieces.A.J. From: "Jason Swan" Subject: 6' Bamboo culmsDate: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:09:26 -0700 OK, so according to the Garrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short formost rod lengths using his recommended node staggering method. So, is thereanother way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 footbamboo poles? Jason _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Nov 27 03:35:20 2001 fAR9ZIH25498 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:35:19 - fAR9Z9O02191; Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bill Have you been snooping in my diary? That's pretty well exactly how I feel about wet planing and preparation! Did one. Worked OK. Won't be doing any more. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Nov 27 03:43:12 2001 fAR9hBH25786 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:43:11 - fAR9h3O03716; Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Jon Photo chemical; additive to fixer solution. In photo work its function isrelated to the protein/gel emulsion on the film- which is why I say I haveno earthly idea why I think it makes a difference in bluing nickel silver.Danny, can you help here, if you aren't already gallivanting around in Ao TeAroa? Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Nov 27 03:52:01 2001 fAR9q0H26054 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:52:00 - fAR9ppE05544; Subject: Re: buying a Plane Can I add to that? The blade in the block plane whether "low angle" or "highangle" is mounted and used with the bevel up, while the others are usedwith the bevel down. This is not rocket science, but it does have somepractical differences in the way you place the emphasis in sharpening yourblades.And while it's not a definitional thing, it is only in block planes that wesee throat adjustments (as opposed to frog adjustments) commonly used.Look at the pictures on the Lie Nielson website - if you have a miraculouslevel of self control. Peter from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Nov 27 03:55:17 2001 fAR9tBH26260 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:55:11 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:39:29+0100 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:39:29+0100 Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Hi Peter, leaving on Friday:-))I have no clue what difference it will do in bluing. Its purpose is toharden the gelatine coat on film/paper, making it more resistance toscratch. I suppose it has no effect on NS. I never use hardener for bluingnor photo................. danny from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 27 04:02:44 2001 fARA2hH26555 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:02:43 - Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: To Split or Not to Split - That is the question It happens...sometimes. But not this time [:-)] Bamboo culms do go off with a boom though.Tony At 10:04 PM 11/26/01 -0600, Rich Jezioro wrote: Those who went through Canada to get to Michigan have been known to play tricks. Just ask any Canadian customs agent. Rich At 10:57 AM 11/26/01, Grayson Davis wrote: On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:25:33 EST Bamboomaker@aol.com wrote: Do we really need to put drying splits in them? I won't forget my 2nd, 3rd & 4th culms. I bought them atthe Greyrock meeting and put them in my van, right besidemy bedroll. That night about 2AM, some doggone punk threwa marble right onto the top of my van and woke me up. Igot out in my skivvies and looked for the swine, but theywere hiding. I couldn't see a dent, so I went back to bed.About an hour later they did it again, so I got dressed,picked up my maglight (the big honker that doubles as ablackjack) and looked all over for them ... nothin'nowheres! I got partway back in my roll, leaving myclothes on for a speedy chase. I was still wide awake,hoping for another chance about forty minutes later, when Iheard that marble hit the sheet metal again, only thistime it was inside the van. Not only that, I felt the culmjump beside my leg as it auto-check split. Those thingsare loud! -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Nov 27 04:08:44 2001 fARA8hH26900 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:08:43 -0600 Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:08:39 +1100 Subject: Re: Martin Keanes book FILETIME=[7C5F8B60:01C1772B] Personally I would be happy if Marty does another one as he sees somuch, and has an understanding that is correct. As early on a distantadmirer of American rod design, and a sufferer of most of the heavyfeeling British cane designs, I was grateful to Marty for so muchinsight and as a result in fishing pleasurably with cane rods over theyears. I guess also that I cannot be into blaming the author for thesecondary market price, which is a question of supply and demand on theday and in the marketplace where it is exposed. I bought my originalcopy from Marty and he sent me a nice message! Best to all. Sean Davesrods wrote: Part 1.1 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7BIT from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 27 04:14:10 2001 fARAE8H27225 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:14:08 - Subject: Re: buying a Plane The bevel up is used in conjunction with the adjustable mouth of the block plane which is why the relationship between the opening and depth of cut is so significant.With a bench plane where you can cut across the grain but it's more likely you'll be cutting along it the iron is mounted much steeper, it has a chip breaker and the distance from the front of the mouth opening all work to prevent tearing along the grain.It's a much better set up but a bit harder to do on a single handed plane. Tony At 08:51 PM 11/27/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Can I add to that? The blade in the block plane whether "low angle" or "highangle" is mounted and used with the bevel up, while the others are usedwith the bevel down. This is not rocket science, but it does have somepractical differences in the way you place the emphasis in sharpening yourblades.And while it's not a definitional thing, it is only in block planes that wesee throat adjustments (as opposed to frog adjustments) commonly used.Look at the pictures on the Lie Nielson website - if you have a miraculouslevel of self control. Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from iank@ts.co.nz Tue Nov 27 04:18:59 2001 fARAIwH27494 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:18:58 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:23:05 +1300 "Jonathan McAnulty" Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only- now not rodmaking Ao Te Aroa !!! Typical bloody Aussie . Cannot spell and cannot playfootball and based on the latest cricket results it always rains in Tasmania( which was just as well given the way New Zealand were playing in thecricket test match)! Ian from New Zealand if you aren't already gallivanting around in Ao Te Aroa? Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Nov 27 04:28:38 2001 fARASaH27849 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:28:36 - "Jonathan McAnulty" Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only- now not rodmaking It's just as well it is raining for the cricket though it did look like the first test MAY have gone NZ 's way, unbelievably. So far the cricket has been just like Robin Williams said, "like baseball on vallium".Can't wait for them to come play out here in the West where to look at it it's never rained ever and may never again. I have to be careful now because as with all people with one foot in one country and one in the other you are quite exposed in between though I know where I'd rather be right now [:-)] Tony At 11:05 PM 11/27/01 +1300, Ian Kearney wrote: Ao Te Aroa !!! Typical bloody Aussie . Cannot spell and cannot playfootball and based on the latest cricket results it always rains in Tasmania( which was just as well given the way New Zealand were playing in thecricket test match)! Ian from New Zealand if you aren't already gallivanting around in Ao Te Aroa? Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 27 05:55:56 2001 fARBttH29042 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:55:55 - Subject: Re: Splitting Wayne, No need to knock out dams at all. When prepping a culm for a rod I bandsaw mine after I split to sixths. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Wayne Kifer wrote: I guess I'll have to post this question again as I didn't get a reply. Doyou knock out the dams with a rod prior to using the splitter or isn't itnecessary? Doesn't seem like a hard question. Wayne from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 27 06:03:54 2001 fARC3rH29343 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:03:53 - Subject: RE: Splitting Wayne:I use the Hida splitter as well. I do not knock out the dams at all. Justalign the splitter to the culm and smash the bejeebers out of it. As Johnhas said before, it is a very therapeutic process. Afterwards, I take thebacks of the nodes off by sanding them flat on the 12" disc sander. THen Isplit further.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Splitting I guess I'll have to post this question again as I didn't get a reply. Doyou knock out the dams with a rod prior to using the splitter or isn't itnecessary? Doesn't seem like a hard question. Wayne from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Nov 27 06:19:00 2001 fARCIxH29731 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:18:59 - helo=oemcomputer) id 168hCU-0004wc-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:18:58 -0500 Subject: re:virus alert i received an email with an attachment from someone i did an ebay =transaction with several months ago. i don't know this guy from nothing. =i deleted the message without looking at the name of the file. i wonder =if it was the same virus. i wrote him and asked what the heck he was =sending me and got a form letter the next day. i guess everyone in his = be careful out there.mike i received an email with an attachment= i did an ebay transaction with several months ago. i don't know this guy = nothing. i deleted the message without looking at the name of the file. = if it was the same virus. i wrote him and asked what the heck he was = and got a form letter the next day. i guess everyone in his mailbox got = email. there. mike from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 27 06:39:31 2001 fARCdVH00398 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:39:31 - Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms Jason;I think there is a touch of confusion here. Garrison bought 8' culms andcut them so that he could get a full length tip for an 8' rod, whichmeant he had to splice the strips under the grip to get the butt sectionout of it. Today's culms are 12' long, which are cut to 2 6' lengths toship if you buy only a few at a time. 6' is long enough to do most anylength 2 pc rod section you are likely to make.John Jason Swan wrote: OK, so according to the Garrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short formost rod lengths using his recommended node staggering method. So, isthereanother way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 footbamboo poles? Jason from gdabrowski@yahoo.com Tue Nov 27 06:39:58 2001 fARCdvH00456 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:39:57 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:33:12 PST Subject: Re: making reel seats Mark: There's been a couple good articles on making reel seat inserts andhardware in the Powerfibers online Magazine during the last fewissues. (If I don't say so myself) Gather all the info you can. Look at all the options as for methodsand equipment. Choose the method that permits you the best controlover the process and practice, practice, practice. Gary BTW, If you'd like to discuss making hardware, get back to medirectly. --- Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: Other than a lathe to turn the insert what tools do you need formaking yourown seats? Does one buy the hardware or do you cast them? Is therean onlineplace where hardware can be viewed/purchased? What about scrimshaw(i guessthey would have to be fake) inserts? -Mark __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 27 06:56:16 2001 fARCuGH01053 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:56:16 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:07:34 - Subject: unbleached cork Do any of the cork companies sell unbleached cork? Sanding the bleachoff just seems to leave the surface rounded and promotes glue lines andscrubbing the stuff is a PIA. Not to mention that it is a real drag tosift thru a hundred rings for the best ones, only to clean them and findthat they aren't any better than the rest of the batch.John from dpeaston@wzrd.com Tue Nov 27 07:02:49 2001 fARD2nH01301 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:02:49 -0600 Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Gary Plowick My Norton Anti-Virus deleted the file as containing dangerous code. Thehedder was as follows: Subject: Re: Re: tung and varnish -DougAt 07:11 PM 11/26/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: I'm pretty sure that it came through the List, as I have never correspondedwith Gary, nor gotten anything from him. I think some of you guys musthaveISPs that block certain infected e-mail. M-D From: "Shawn Pineo" He must have you guys in his address book, as the message didn't cometo the list> Either that or I'm not getting all the messages?? Shawn Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 27 07:15:15 2001 fARDFEH01691 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:15:14 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:15:08 -0800 Subject: Re: buying a Plane FILETIME=[89975690:01C17745] I disagree with Darryl. I did have a Stanley plane that I tried to use r=ight out of the box and couldn't figure out why that plane was tearing an=d didn't perform or "feel" as well as my other one did. This was early i=n my rod making career and when I learned about tuning a plane, I checked=the poor performer with a straight-edge and found the sole was dished in=the area of the throat. After flatening and tuning, the plane was just =fine. The difference was amazing. When you buy a Stanley or Record bloc= This was just my experience. John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: buying a Plane It doesn't matter if your plane is absolutley flat or not. Unlike cabinet=sides or fronts, or table tops, where flatness matters, we are removing =shavings until we are stopped by a steel form. We can't dish or dome our =strips.Most good quality planes are fine right out of the box.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 11/26/01 7:23:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,mschaffer@m=indspring.com writes: I second what Larry just said about leaving the blade in and under pressu=rewhile flattening the sole. I didn't initially and found out to my chagrimlater that thr sole will flex under pressure, mind you, not a lot, butenough that I had to go back and reflatten.Mike I disagreewit= bsp; This was early in my rod making career and when I learned about tuni= ----- Original Message ----- From:DNHayashida@aol=.com Sent: Monday,November = rodmak= It doesn't matter if your plane isabs=olutley flat or not. Unlike cabinet sides or fronts, or table tops, where=flatness matters, we are removing shavings until we are stopped by a ste=el form. We can't dish or dome our strips.Most good quality planes ar=e fine right out of the box.Darryl HayashidaIn a messagedate=d 11/26/01 7:23:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, mschaffer@mindspring.comwri=tes: I second what Larry just said about leaving=the blade in and under pressurewhile flattening the sole. I didn't i=nitially and found out to my chagrimlater that thr sole will flex und=er pressure, mind you, not a lot, butenough that I had to go back and=reflatten.Mike from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Nov 27 08:02:07 2001 fARE22H02861 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:02:02 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:02:22 -0500 Subject: The World of Flyfishing Show: Good morning Gentlepeople, I will be attending the World of Flyfishing Show on January, 4-6, 2002 puton by the Flyfishing University in Danbury, CT. and would like to know ifany of the list members will be doing the show or attending the show. Itwould be nice to meet list members in person. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Nov 27 08:14:33 2001 fAREEWH03345 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:14:32 -0600 fAREEV804431 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:14:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? JoJo,I think the secret is the soaking time. When I soaked for 24 hours I did havenodes pop out again. That was before I started "Displacing" nodes instead of"smashing" them in a vise.I find that I don't have any problems with nodes if I soak at least three days.I generally soak 4 days now. It does take very little time over the heat gun tosoften the node, you can feel it almost immediately. Sweeps can be takenoutwithout heat. Binding and drying wet strips really helps making straightstripsafter the 60* angle is planed. It does take extra time to do the soaking anddrying but in the long run, it is a lot easier on my arthritic hands. Planingthe 60* on wet strips is a real snap.The beauty about all this is, do what works for you. The final outcome is therod to use for fishing regardless of how we do it.I just sent out some strips that have been done "dry" and "wet" to beanalyzed.Let's see what the outcome will be.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: I started soaking solely for the purpose of straightening the nodes. Anyplaning I do is rough, on the milling machine, to do the start taper, then Ibind, and heat treat. I've never noticed any chipping at the nodes thatwasn't due to my fault for taking too big a bite with the plane, or having from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Nov 27 08:20:46 2001 fAREKfH03712 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:20:41 - fAREKW805314 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:20:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Splitting I don't knock out the dams. Just saw or sand a half moon shape out behindthenode after the strips are split. This takes care of the inner node and givesa place for the outer node to be displaced.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Wayne Kifer wrote: I guess I'll have to post this question again as I didn't get a reply. Doyou knock out the dams with a rod prior to using the splitter or isn't itnecessary? Doesn't seem like a hard question. Wayne from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 08:55:27 2001 fAREtQH05024 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:55:26 -0600 helo=default) id 168jdo-0000tD-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:55:20 -0500 Subject: Re: unbleached cork John, I've seen cork sold that uses several different processes for the bleaching,but these were all for wine corks. If I'm not mistaken, the cork can't comeinto this country without the bleaching as this is used to control thevarious flora and fauna that may try to hitchhike. M-D Do any of the cork companies sell unbleached cork? Sanding the bleachoff just seems to leave the surface rounded and promotes glue lines andscrubbing the stuff is a PIA. Not to mention that it is a real drag tosift thru a hundred rings for the best ones, only to clean them and findthat they aren't any better than the rest of the batch.John from HalManas@aol.com Tue Nov 27 08:57:12 2001 fAREvBH05296 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:57:11 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:57:04 - Subject: Virus? All,Today in my normal mail from the list I got one with an attachment from rodsupstream@exp... The subject was The World of Flyfishing Show: I can't get the full address without opening the e-mail and with automatically opening attachments out there I am reluctant to try that. Does anyone know if this is OK or something to just delete? Thanks, Hal All, without opening the e-mail and with automatically opening attachments out from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 09:06:02 2001 fARF61H05909 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:06:01 -0600 helo=default) id 168jo8-0005nw-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:06:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? My experiences would comport with yours, Tony, and I agree completely. M-D JoJo,I think the secret is the soaking time. When I soaked for 24 hours I did have nodes pop out again. That was before I started "Displacing" nodes instead of "smashing" them in a vise.I find that I don't have any problems with nodes if I soak at least three days. I generally soak 4 days now. It does take very little time over the heat gun to soften the node, you can feel it almost immediately. Sweeps can be taken out without heat. Binding and drying wet strips really helps making straight strips after the 60* angle is planed. It does take extra time to do the soaking and drying but in the long run, it is a lot easier on my arthritic hands. Planing the 60* on wet strips is a real snap.The beauty about all this is, do what works for you. The final outcome is the rod to use for fishing regardless of how we do it.I just sent out some strips that have been done "dry" and "wet" to be analyzed. Let's see what the outcome will be.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: I started soaking solely for the purpose of straightening the nodes. Anyplaning I do is rough, on the milling machine, to do the start taper, then I bind, and heat treat. I've never noticed any chipping at the nodes thatwasn't due to my fault for taking too big a bite with the plane, or having from harms1@pa.net Tue Nov 27 09:44:15 2001 fARFiEH07679 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:44:14 -0600 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Tony, et al. I am concerned about nodes that have been straightened while saturatedwithwater. Because node fibers bend into a straight position so easily whenthoroughly wet, I wonder if the straightening is "real." What I mean is that, because so very little heat is required (sometimes,almost none) to bend bamboo in this saturated state, it seems to me thatthestraightening is being caused merely by mechanically pushing (or pressing)the fibers where we want them. The potential problem, however, was suggested to me by observing whathappens to my "straighened" strips after they have cooled down. Theslightest re-introduction of either heat or water causes these straightstrips to move back toward their previously bent shape. Some nodes bentagain only partially; some, almost entirely; none remained straight. So, I have no confidence whatever in the strip that has been straightened byvirtue of mechanically pushing soggy fibers into a new alignment. What I believe is that only heat (thermally induced "plasticizing") willcause fibers to become truly straightened, and to stay that way. Theproblem with heat-straightening wet fibers, however, is that the processrequires so little (and probably, too little) heat. Consequently, I doubtthat the necessary plasticizing actually takes place. Because the cane isboth soggy AND warm, it becomes extremely pliable, but if you depend uponthis process, you will never know whether it is the pushing or theplasticizing that has allowed the straightening to take place. If you do not re-introduce heat during the remainder of the building process(to srips that have been "straightened" in this manner), perhaps you willnever notice the difference. But what about the finished rod when it beginsto absorb moisture and/or high humidity? What about the rod that,inadvertently, is exposed both to high humidity and very warm temps? Thefibers in the "straightened" sections will want to return to their originalshape as their mechanically-induced stresses are relieved, and I fear therod will take a set. Or, if not a set, what about the likelihood of the roddeveloping a "spine" or a "jump?" Let's hear from some of the more scientifically-minded members. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? JoJo,I think the secret is the soaking time. When I soaked for 24 hours I did have nodes pop out again. That was before I started "Displacing" nodes instead of "smashing" them in a vise.I find that I don't have any problems with nodes if I soak at least three days. I generally soak 4 days now. It does take very little time over the heat gun to soften the node, you can feel it almost immediately. Sweeps can be taken out without heat. Binding and drying wet strips really helps making straight strips after the 60* angle is planed. It does take extra time to do the soaking and drying but in the long run, it is a lot easier on my arthritic hands. Planing the 60* on wet strips is a real snap.The beauty about all this is, do what works for you. The final outcome is the rod to use for fishing regardless of how we do it.I just sent out some strips that have been done "dry" and "wet" to be analyzed. Let's see what the outcome will be.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: I started soaking solely for the purpose of straightening the nodes. Anyplaning I do is rough, on the milling machine, to do the start taper, then I bind, and heat treat. I've never noticed any chipping at the nodes thatwasn't due to my fault for taking too big a bite with the plane, or having from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Nov 27 09:49:26 2001 fARFnPH08106 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:49:25 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:49:22 -0500 Subject: ferrule making FILETIME=[15424B40:01C1775B] I've been tooling up to make my own ferrules and was wondering if anybody has any suggestions or pointers or warnings. I have no experience as a machinist, but I've been piddling around with my grizzly 7X10, so I'm familiar with the machine. I've studied the outline by dave leclair published in an older issue of powerfibers, but it is very basic and assumes you know what you are doing in the first place (which I don't). SOOO. I have a couple of questions: 1. would anyone care to publish a detailed primer? 2. is a reamer necessary for each size, or will one reamer fit several sizes? Which reamers would you suggest? 3. I've bought a fair amount of NS tubing in sizes from 11-15. I'm pretty sure that the wall thickness isn't sufficient to machine a welt on the female. Anyone out there know how to apply a welt to NS tubing? Thanks, everyone Bill from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Nov 27 09:56:39 2001 fARFucH08704 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:56:38 - helo=oemcomputer) id 168kb7-0000ZE-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:56:37 -0500 Subject: re: virus? hal,at this point in time i wouldn't open anything unless it was from a =trusted source. that message was from tim doughty, upstream always. he =was wondering if anyone from the list is going to be in danbury for the =world flyfishing showmike hal, open anything unless it was from a trusted source. that message was from= doughty, upstream always. he was wondering if anyone from the list is = be in danbury for the world flyfishing show mike from rmoon@ida.net Tue Nov 27 10:07:18 2001 fARG7GH09422 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:07:17 - 0000 Subject: Re: Splitting I have seen a lot on the handling of the internal ridge in a culm. Noone seems to do it like I do, and I am really comfortable with mymethod.I split in half, then in thirds. on the third splits I lay themrind down on the bench and whack away at the ridges with a cheap Searscopy of a #9 Stanley. It is set to take a pretty good slice. At firstit is like driving into a wall. Hard to get going, but after two orthree strokes, it suddenly becomes easy and flattens the bottom so thatthe third split can be split in thirds. Then the planning is done onthe pith of each of those splits. If I need a relief on the pith sideto displace the node, a small curved rasp will do the hob in only acouple of strokes. I have tried power sanding, too dangerous I ruinedtoo many strips. I wouldn't ever try to cut longitudinally on a bandsaw. I am a bit too fearful of losing some of my anatomy. Yes i stilldo the outside of the nodes with a No 20 mill bastard file. Only ifthere is a significant dip ahead of the node do I use heat to correct. Just my way. Why am i so different. Oh by the way, despite watchingBob Nunley and Tony Spezio carve out strips that are well nigh perfect,I am still using Garrison's splitting technique Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Nov 27 10:09:04 2001 fARG93H09601 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:09:03 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:09:22 -0500 Subject: RE: Virus? Hi Hal, The message I sent to the list had no attachment, I use word as my e- maileditor and only the signature is embedded. I never, repeat never sendattachments to the list. I have the latest Norton's anti virus and also runa fire wall called Zone Alarm. I did a scan on the off chance that it came from me and my machine came up clear. I would not open this e-mail withthatattachment as it is sure to be the new virus. A word of advice "NEVER,NEVER, EVER OPEN AN ATTACHMENT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHO IS SENDING ITAND THEYHAVE CONTACTED YOU TO LET YOU KNOW THAT IT IS COMING". Take care,Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker -----Original Message----- Subject: Virus? All,Today in my normal mail from the list I got one with an attachment from rodsupstream@exp... The subject was The World of Flyfishing Show: Ican't get the full address without opening the e-mail and with automaticallyopening attachments out there I am reluctant to try that. Does anyone knowif this is OK or something to just delete? Thanks, Hal 0DocumentEmail Hi=Hal, Th=emessage I sent to the list had no attachment, I use word as my e-mail =editorand only the signature is embedded. I never, repeat never send =attachments tothe list. I have the latest Norton’s anti virus and also run a =fire wall calledZone Alarm. I did a scan on the off chance that it came from me and my =machinecame up clear. I would not open this e-mail with that attachment as it =is sureto be the new virus. A word of advice “NEVER, NEVER, EVER OPEN AN=ATTACHMENTUNLESS YOU KNOW WHO IS SENDING IT AND THEY HAVE CONTACTED YOU TOLET YOU =KNOWTHAT IT IS COMING”. Take care, Tim. = Signature" UpstreamAlways, TimDoughty Rod =Maker -----OriginalMessage-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Tuesday, November=27, 20019:57 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: =Virus? All, list I got The World thee-mail and with automatically opening attachments out there I am =reluctant to delete? from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Nov 27 10:09:29 2001 fARG9NH09730 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:09:23 - 0000 (63.228.47.147) Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms Jason,If you are going to cut them I measure down from the tip 6 feet and then goto the next noe down. That way you are not left with half a section betweennodes.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms Jason;I think there is a touch of confusion here. Garrison bought 8' culms andcut them so that he could get a full length tip for an 8' rod, whichmeant he had to splice the strips under the grip to get the butt sectionout of it. Today's culms are 12' long, which are cut to 2 6' lengths toship if you buy only a few at a time. 6' is long enough to do most anylength 2 pc rod section you are likely to make.John Jason Swan wrote: OK, so according to the Garrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short for most rod lengths using his recommended node staggering method. So, is there another way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 footbamboo poles? Jason from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 27 10:15:59 2001 fARGFrH10372 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:15:53 - id 168ktl-0000Fo-00; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:15:53 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrule making Hi Bill,I do my own ferrules on a 7x10 but as I use solid rod and drill and ream, Idon't think much of what I do would be of use to you with tubing. I bought the"import" grade of chucking reamers in 1/64th from J&L. They work fine andthey are cheap. I got them a few at a time until I had the sizes I needed. Ifyour tubing is thick enough to do machining, you might consider a set ofcollets. I am using ER type collets that work great but MicroMark has anattractive collet set with a chuck for about $110. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com bhoy551@earthlink.net wrote: I've been tooling up to make my own ferrules and was wondering if anybody has any suggestions or pointers or warnings. I have no experience as a machinist, but I've been piddling around with my grizzly 7X10, so I'm familiar with the machine. I've studied the outline by dave leclair published in an older issue of powerfibers, but it is very basic and assumes you know what you are doing in the first place (which I don't). SOOO. I have a couple of questions: 1. would anyone care to publish a detailed primer? 2. is a reamer necessary for each size, or will one reamer fit several sizes? Which reamers would you suggest? 3. I've bought a fair amount of NS tubing in sizes from 11-15. I'm pretty sure that the wall thickness isn't sufficient to machine a welt on the female. Anyone out there know how to apply a welt to NS tubing? Thanks, everyone Bill from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Tue Nov 27 10:18:28 2001 fARGIQH10701 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:18:27 - fARGI9L01115 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:18:09 - Subject: making butt caps THANKS to this list, I can make sliding rings with beads! Now I'm thinking about butt caps as I read through books about metal working. On paper, it seems to me that spinning should be the best way for a fellow with a 7X10 lathe to make a butt cap from NS. Last week, I didn't know what spinning was, so for others with similar backgrounds ... In spinning, you mount two wooden forms to the head and tailstock of the lathe, squeeze a circular sheet of metal between them, start the lathe, take a modified hammer handle and mash the sheet onto one of the forms. You do not need to thin the metal down (that would be shear spinning), just bend it onto the form, giving it that shape. When you are done, the piece slides off the form. Tooling and materials are cheap, you can practice with brass shim stock, and (on paper) it's easy (seems that I've heard that before) to do even with surprisingly thick stock (up to 1"!?). No doubt, it is important to keep your head out of line with that spinning sheet until it's cupped onto the form. Has anyone on the list done this sort of thing? Is it possible to make a butt cap this way with a light lathe? Does it take tremendous pressure to keep that sheet in palce? If that sheet flies out of the forms is it the frisbee of death? -Grayson-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 10:32:42 2001 fARGWfH11631 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:32:41 -0600 helo=default) id 168l9y-0000pL-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:32:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? The importance of soaking for 3 days is to allow the strips near saturation.I've posted in the past about the marked difference in the process ofstraightening/pressing between only a 24 hr. soak and 3 days. When I amstraightening soaked strips I have the heat gun set on maximum. This meansthe temp output is around 1,000Ÿ F, probably higher. The water helps toinduce the heat into the bamboo. As you know, bamboo, being cellulose, is anexcellent insulator. It only takes 45 sec. - 1 min. for me to have a pliablestrip/node. I use the same test as I did on dry strips and that is to flexthe strip until it feels plastic. I once pressed some nodes on a strip, thenreintroduced them to the water bath overnight to see what would happen. Ofcourse, the nodes swelled, but when I allowed the strip to dry out the nodeswere near where I had them after pressing the first time. I've noticed onlyvery little node popping after heat treating, certainly less than I did whenI pressed dry nodes, and this is not a reversal of the entire pressingprocess, rather only a slight bump arising. To repeat the process employed:Soak, straighten/press, rough bevel, bind, heat treat, final plane. Thestraighten/press, rough bevel, bind, and heat treat usually occur in thesame day. In the South we have the worst of both high temps and humidity, with thetemps reaching over 100Ÿ F, while the humidity is simultaneously at 70%, orhigher. I've yet to see even the remotest kind of node reversal on any rods,nor on raw blanks that were junked and merely lying about. Inner automobiletemps, which go well over 130Ÿ, have had no effect, as well. Neither have Iseen any rods develop a tendency to take a set that wasn't induced by theangler in flexing the rod to an extreme acute angle over a protracted periodof time, such as when landing a large fish. You are correct that the heat is the key. I do believe that your fears arefounded given that enough heat has not been applied, and only the supplenessof the strip is relied upon to facilitate the straightening process, but notwarranted given the proper use of heat. The water merely serves tofacilitate the heating process and , in and of itself, should not be reliedupon to facilitate any straightening/pressing process. M-D Tony, et al. I am concerned about nodes that have been straightened while saturated with water. Because node fibers bend into a straight position so easily whenthoroughly wet, I wonder if the straightening is "real." What I mean is that, because so very little heat is required (sometimes,almost none) to bend bamboo in this saturated state, it seems to me that the straightening is being caused merely by mechanically pushing (or pressing)the fibers where we want them. The potential problem, however, was suggested to me by observing whathappens to my "straighened" strips after they have cooled down. Theslightest re-introduction of either heat or water causes these straightstrips to move back toward their previously bent shape. Some nodes bentagain only partially; some, almost entirely; none remained straight. So, I have no confidence whatever in the strip that has been straightened by virtue of mechanically pushing soggy fibers into a new alignment. What I believe is that only heat (thermally induced "plasticizing") willcause fibers to become truly straightened, and to stay that way. Theproblem with heat-straightening wet fibers, however, is that the processrequires so little (and probably, too little) heat. Consequently, I doubtthat the necessary plasticizing actually takes place. Because the cane isboth soggy AND warm, it becomes extremely pliable, but if you depend uponthis process, you will never know whether it is the pushing or theplasticizing that has allowed the straightening to take place. If you do not re-introduce heat during the remainder of the building process (to srips that have been "straightened" in this manner), perhaps you willnever notice the difference. But what about the finished rod when it begins to absorb moisture and/or high humidity? What about the rod that,inadvertently, is exposed both to high humidity and very warm temps? Thefibers in the "straightened" sections will want to return to their original shape as their mechanically-induced stresses are relieved, and I fear therod will take a set. Or, if not a set, what about the likelihood of the rod developing a "spine" or a "jump?" Let's hear from some of the more scientifically-minded members. cheers, Bill From: "Tony Spezio" JoJo,I think the secret is the soaking time. When I soaked for 24 hours I did have nodes pop out again. That was before I started "Displacing" nodes instead of "smashing" them in a vise.I find that I don't have any problems with nodes if I soak at least three days. I generally soak 4 days now. It does take very little time over the heat gun to soften the node, you can feel it almost immediately. Sweeps can betaken out without heat. Binding and drying wet strips really helps making straight strips after the 60* angle is planed. It does take extra time to do the soaking and drying but in the long run, it is a lot easier on my arthritic hands. Planing the 60* on wet strips is a real snap.The beauty about all this is, do what works for you. The final outcome is the rod to use for fishing regardless of how we do it.I just sent out some strips that have been done "dry" and "wet" to be analyzed. Let's see what the outcome will be.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: I started soaking solely for the purpose of straightening the nodes. Any planing I do is rough, on the milling machine, to do the start taper, then I bind, and heat treat. I've never noticed any chipping at the nodes that wasn't due to my fault for taking too big a bite with the plane, or having from homes-sold@home.com Tue Nov 27 10:35:51 2001 fARGZoH11992 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:35:50 - femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:35:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Virus? Hal,The message you are referring to is from Tim Doughty Don It says: Good morning Gentlepeople, I will be attending the World of Flyfishing Show on January, 4-6, 2002 =puton by the Flyfishing University in Danbury, CT. and would like to know =ifany of the list members will be doing the show or attending the show. Itwould be nice to meet list members in person. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker Subject: Virus? Today in my normal mail from the list I got one with an attachment = from rodsupstream@exp... The subject was The World of Flyfishing Show: =I can't get the full address without opening the e-mail and with =automatically opening attachments out there I am reluctant to try that. = Hal,The message you are referring to is= from Tim Doughtyrodsupstream@exploremaine.c= Don It says: = Flyfishing Show on January, 4-6, 2002 puton by the Flyfishing = Danbury, CT. and would like to know ifany of the list members will = the show or attending the show. Itwould be nice to meet list members = person. Take care, Tim.Upstream Always,Tim = Maker From: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:57 AMSubject: Virus? the = e-mail and with automatically opening attachments out there I am = from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Tue Nov 27 10:36:50 2001 fARGanH12131 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:36:49 - "Rodmakers Info" Subject: Re: The World of Flyfishing Show: Hi Tim, I'll be there also. John K.Mountain Valley Flies----- Original Message ----- Subject: The World of Flyfishing Show: Good morning Gentlepeople, I will be attending the World of Flyfishing Show on January, 4-6, 2002 puton by the Flyfishing University in Danbury, CT. and would like to know ifany of the list members will be doing the show or attending the show. Itwould be nice to meet list members in person. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Nov 27 10:51:41 2001 fARGpeH13511 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:51:40 - 0000 (63.228.47.147) Subject: Re: buying a Plane Open you dial caliper to 1/1000 of an inch and look at it under the =light. Plane a strip measure it and then measure it again the next day. =As a matter of fact remeasure the stirip again right away. We are =planing vegetables are we not? What we say we can do would be hard to do =with metal.Dave-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Subject: Re: buying a Plane It doesn't matter if your plane is absolutley flat or not. =Unlike cabinet sides or fronts, or table tops, where flatness matters, =we are removing shavings until we are stopped by a steel form. We can't = Most good quality planes are fine right out of the box. Gotta question you here. If the sole of the plane is concave, =will it not tend to lift the bamboo out of the forms, causing undersized =strips? If the plane's sole is convex, will it not be difficult to =consistently keep the blade on the forms? Seems to me that it would be =easy to let the plane rest on either the leading or trailing end rather =than at the precise point of the blade... Also, would it not constantly =change the angle of attack from blade to bamboo as the convex soled = Open you dial caliper to 1/1000 of= look at it under the light. Plane a strip measure it and then measure it = We are planing vegetables are we not? What we say we can do would be = with metal.Dave -----Original = DNHayashida@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Monday, November 26, 2001 10:01 PMSubject: Re:buying = PlaneDNHayashida@aol.com absolutley flat or not. Unlike cabinet sides or fronts, or table = where flatness matters, we are removing shavings until we are = a steel form. We can't dish or dome our = plane is concave, will it not tend to lift the bamboo out of the = that it would be easy to let the plane rest on either the leading or = would it not constantly change the angle of attack from blade to = - = from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Nov 27 11:27:23 2001 fARHRHH15706 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:27:22 - fARHRG806806 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:27:16 -0600 Subject: 7X10 metal lathe. Just for info.Two weeks ago Homier Truckload Sales had the 7X10lathe with the same attachments as the others for249.99. They were in Mtn. Home Arkansas. I couldnot get to the sale to check it out due to kneesurgery on the same day. This is a Truck Load salethat travels. Have gotten some great buys fromthem. They do have a web site www.homier.comNo affiliation and all that stuff, just thoughtthat was a real great buy. If you are looking fora 7X10 you might keep your eyes open if they cometo your area. I think the web page lists the datesand places they will be.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Nov 27 11:30:00 2001 fARHTxH15984 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:29:59 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:29:45 - 1127122945; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:29:45 -0500 Subject: Medved Beveler Question I've been studying the drawings and pictures of the Medved Beveler on ChrisBogart's website. I don't quite understand how the two adjusting screwswork. The longer screw is for leveling, while the shorter screw is foradjusting the depth of the cut. This doesn't make sense to me... There would seem to be only one depth where the bed would be level, at anyother depth the bed would be at an angle. In thinking about this, it doesn'tseem like it would make any difference if the bed is level. The router bit willalways cut the strip tangential to the surface of the bed no matter whatangle it is at... meaning to me that the cut will always be parallel to thesurface of the bed. Is my thinking flawed or is there something I don'tunderstand? If I am right, then it would seem that only one adjusting screwis needed... ? Thanks in advance for insights you can share, Kyle from wkifer@harborside.com Tue Nov 27 11:43:45 2001 fARHhiH17756 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:43:44 -0600 0000 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? At 07:42 AM 11/27/01, WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Tony, et al. What I believe is that only heat (thermally induced "plasticizing") willcause fibers to become truly straightened, and to stay that way. All, I, for one, would like to hear more about what is believed to be occurring during "thermally induced plasticizing". Are we actually melting or liquefying a substance such as lignin that re-hardens as it cools, or are we merely softening fibers with heat. I know there are varying opinions on this and I, and perhaps others, would be interested in hearing them. Wayne from harms1@pa.net Tue Nov 27 12:14:39 2001 fARIEcH21535 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:14:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Jojo, Yes, water greatly facilitates suppleness upon heating. But, yes, too, onlysufficient heat will accomplish permanent straightening. But if saturated cane becomes sufficiently supple for straightening wellbefore enough heat is applied to accomplish "plasticizing," how shall weknow what additional temperatures shall be required? It is true that a heat gun set on "high" will product temps of 1000 degrees,and it is also true that water-saturated cane will conduct heat more quicklythan would dry cane. But, still, if the suppleness of saturated cane is anunreliable guide, how shall we know if we have applied enough heat toplasticize? This issue runs the risk of becoming merely theoretical, but in purelypractical terms, I still worry about not accomplishing what I had expectedto be accomplishing. Certainly I wish no convey no disrespect, but yoursuccess with the process speaks, I think, more to your learned skills inmanaging these paramaters, than perhaps it does to the advisability of theprocess itself. Certainly, heat-straightening saturated cane goes quickly and easily, but Icontinue to wonder if it is good practice--especially for those lacking agreat deal of experience. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? You are correct that the heat is the key. I do believe that your fears arefounded given that enough heat has not been applied, and only the suppleness of the strip is relied upon to facilitate the straightening process, but not warranted given the proper use of heat. The water merely serves tofacilitate the heating process and , in and of itself, should not be relied upon to facilitate any straightening/pressing process. M-D from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 27 13:18:32 2001 fARJIVH24007 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:18:31 -0600 (authenticated) Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:18:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bill, As you stated, perhaps this is simply an academic question... If the canesoaked for 4 days will stay straight, if no bumps return to the nodes duringheat-treating, isn't the heat-treating itself accomplishing the "plasticizing"results we are hoping for? Does it matter even a little bit whether or notthecane is "plasticized" if it stays straight? Just wondering...Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: But if saturated cane becomes sufficiently supple for straightening wellbefore enough heat is applied to accomplish "plasticizing," how shall weknow what additional temperatures shall be required? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Nov 27 13:54:46 2001 fARJskH27319 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:54:46 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:54:37 -0800 Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:54:37 GMT Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms FILETIME=[581C94D0:01C1777D] Not only is it a myth/bad idea, but it leads to alot of variation in the individual rods. The best example is scotch whiskey. Single malts can have alot of character - some bad, some good while blends are cosistent. In addition to being another one of those 'red herrings' that has come out of building as a hobby and for reasons unknown to have been endlessly propogated it was never the practice of any other builder from the Golden age. My tips are still 'book matched', they are simply made from a blend of complementing strips.A.J. - thought I would post this to the general group as I recieved many inquiries that were similiar- From: Jason Swan Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culmsDate: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:32:30 -0700 A.J., Does that mean you use strips from two separate pieces of bamboo in one rod?I thought that was a no-no. Or is that another myth propagated by theGarrison book? Jason On 11/27/01 12:32 AM, "Allen Thramer" wrote: As mentioned before the 3X3 makes the best use of the bamboo, I most often will stagger 3 full culms with another 3 full culms. You have to sort the cane into similiar node spacing piles first. I stagger about 20 - 30 culms at a time and store them in a rack bundled together after cutting them into either 50" or 36" pieces.A.J. From: "Jason Swan" Subject: 6' Bamboo culmsDate: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:09:26 -0700 OK, so according to the Garrison book a 6' piece of bamboo is too short for most rod lengths using his recommended node staggering method. So,isthereanother way to stagger the nodes, or is it best to get the 10 or 12 foot bamboo poles? Jason _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Nov 27 13:58:39 2001 fARJwdH27612 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:58:39 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:58:26 -0800 Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:58:25 GMT Subject: Re: making butt caps FILETIME=[E0572770:01C1777D] If it of interest, Gary Dabrowski makes drawn butt caps of NS and aluminum.He makes them in 3 sizes. They are 'blanks' - not machined and are ready for you to turn them into whatever you want. They work slick and are inexpensive.A.J. From: Grayson Davis Subject: making butt capsDate: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:18:39 -0600 (Central Standard Time) THANKS to this list, I can make sliding rings with beads! Now I'm thinking about butt caps as I read through booksabout metal working. On paper, it seems to me thatspinning should be the best way for a fellow with a 7X10lathe to make a butt cap from NS. Last week, I didn't knowwhat spinning was, so for others with similarbackgrounds ... In spinning, you mount two wooden forms tothe head and tailstock of the lathe, squeeze a circularsheet of metal between them, start the lathe, take amodified hammer handle and mash the sheet onto one of theforms. You do not need to thin the metal down (that wouldbe shear spinning), just bend it onto the form, giving itthat shape. When you are done, the piece slides off theform. Tooling and materials are cheap, you can practicewith brass shim stock, and (on paper) it's easy (seems thatI've heard that before) to do even with surprisingly thickstock (up to 1"!?). No doubt, it is important to keep yourhead out of line with that spinning sheet until it's cuppedonto the form. Has anyone on the list done this sort of thing? Is itpossible to make a butt cap this way with a light lathe?Does it take tremendous pressure to keep that sheet inpalce? If that sheet flies out of the forms is it thefrisbee of death? -Grayson-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from irish-george@chartermi.net Tue Nov 27 14:01:25 2001 fARK1KH27943 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:01:20 - 2001 15:01:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Martin Keane's book Marty is a very nice fellow who always seems willing to talk your ear offabout bamboo rods! His book has always been priced reasonably when new(theonly time he has any control over the pricing). George from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Nov 27 14:13:27 2001 fARKDQH28803 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:13:26 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:13:07 - Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Does wet or dry really matter at all? All of the old masters used to just file the nodes off. I would think pressing the nodes leaves more meat (wet or dry) than filing and that if the "prone to set" argument held water (no pun intended) all filed rods would take sets. Many do, but many do not. Also, if the water is conducting heat better, won't it turn to steam and damage the nodes' structure? Regards, Steve. from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Nov 27 14:30:26 2001 fARKUKH29886 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:30:20 -0600 Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:30:14 -0500 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? FILETIME=[520026C0:01C17782] I've only used the method for a couple of rods. My main reason for trying it was that it seemed to be a good way to straighten and flatten nodes without applying too much heat. My reasoning was that excessive heat, or moderate heat applied too often, would be detrimental. So I applied as little heat as possible to achieve pliability. I don't really understand the concern that applying heat later would make the strip revert to it's original crookedness. My experience has always been that a second dose of heat will make the unplaned strip revert. That's why I press and straighten at the same time, straightening first and then displacing the node gently in a vise. Once it's planed to final dimension, all the strips seem to glue up straight. I've never had a rod take a set (but it's early days yet). bill Certainly, heat-straightening saturated cane goes quickly and easily, but Icontinue to wonder if it is good practice--especially for those lacking agreat deal of experience. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:30 AMSubject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? You are correct that the heat is the key. I do believe that your fears arefounded given that enough heat has not been applied, and only the suppleness of the strip is relied upon to facilitate the straightening process, but not warranted given the proper use of heat. The water merely serves tofacilitate the heating process and , in and of itself, should not be relied upon to facilitate any straightening/pressing process. M-D from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 14:34:51 2001 fARKYoH00270 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:34:51 -0600 helo=default) id 168owL-0001ZQ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:34:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bill, Valid points. I think that my learning this process, and managing thoseparameters, goes to the very heart of any process used in the making ofrods. I can easily see how someone with no prior experience could be lulledinto a false sense of security, thinking they had pressed the nodesproperly, only to be horrified at some point future that they had not. Thesame might be said for that same someone who was learning to do drystrips.The difficult part for me when doing dry strips was getting the bamboo tothe point of plasticity without burning it. The heat required to transmitsufficient energy into the cane had to be balanced with a heat insufficientto burn the outside, which meant it took a great deal more time toaccomplish the task. I guess this is just another one of the multitude of things we do inrodmaking, that while the manner may differ, accomplishes the sameobjective. We each try different things, find what works for us, discard therest, then develop the skills from there. Just the nature of the beast, Isuppose. M-D This issue runs the risk of becoming merely theoretical, but in purelypractical terms, I still worry about not accomplishing what I had expectedto be accomplishing. Certainly I wish no convey no disrespect, but yoursuccess with the process speaks, I think, more to your learned skills inmanaging these paramaters, than perhaps it does to the advisability of theprocess itself. Certainly, heat-straightening saturated cane goes quickly and easily, but I continue to wonder if it is good practice--especially for those lacking agreat deal of experience. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:30 AMSubject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? You are correct that the heat is the key. I do believe that your fears are founded given that enough heat has not been applied, and only the suppleness of the strip is relied upon to facilitate the straightening process, but not warranted given the proper use of heat. The water merely serves tofacilitate the heating process and , in and of itself, should not be relied upon to facilitate any straightening/pressing process. M-D from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 14:42:06 2001 fARKg5H01006 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:42:05 -0600 helo=default) id 168p3L-0007Xp-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:42:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Does wet or dry really matter at all? Apparently only to those of us who do it one way, or the other. All of the old masters used to just file the nodes off. I would thinkpressing the nodes leaves more meat (wet or dry) than filing and that if the "prone to set" argument held water (no pun intended) all filed rods wouldtake sets. Many do, but many do not. The pressing of nodes has as much to do with aesthetics as it does anything.There are basically two schools of thought on this. Press the node, leavemore meat, and a smaller nodal area, but perhaps damaging the fibers, orfile the nodes off smooth, but removing more of the cane in the processthusleaving a larger nodal area, perhaps weakening the structure. Your guess isas good as mine. Also, if the water is conducting heat better, won't it turn to steam anddamage the nodes' structure? Apparently not. The heat treating process doesn't seem to cause anydamage,and here we're talking about the whole strip being steam relievedsimultaneously. M-D from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Nov 27 15:05:18 2001 fARL5HH02692 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:05:17 -0600 helo=g2t8c9) id 168pPh-0002a2-00; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:05:09 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Wayne, Good question. Now I will answer it with a question, Do you have BobMilwards book? If not I suggest you get one. They are even found on ebay forsale. He goes into depth on the whole heat thing. For a short answer, Yes. Adam All, I, for one, would like to hear more about what is believed to be occurringduring "thermally induced plasticizing". Are we actually melting orliquefying a substance such as lignin that re-hardens as it cools, or arewe merely softening fibers with heat. I know there are varying opinions onthis and I, and perhaps others, would be interested in hearing them. Wayne from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Tue Nov 27 15:05:40 2001 fARL5dH02790 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:05:39 -0600 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 15:03:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bill, I wonder if there is any possibility that some of the differences between your experience and mine (albeit limited to 3 rod sections now done with soaked strips) could relate to underlying differences in the culms? I soaked my strips 4 days and they did appear saturated but they were still pretty robust and springy, not noodles or mushy in any way. I heat straightened on almost max. heat with my heat gun and had the treated area dry on the surface before I got the typical "melting" so that I could straighten it. The main advantage seemed to be that it "melted" and straightened well before I would get surface charring, thus reducing the risk of a burned strip. I was assuming the heat transfer through the water was better and that the production of steam acted a little like a heat buffer to prevent overheating. Is it possible that your culms absorbed more water or had a lower density of power fibers or mold damage or some other factor that would exacerbate the effects of soaking? My experience so far has been exactly like what Jojo described in his previous post. The straightening seems to be a "permanent" effect, or at least as permanent as it ever gets. I also used heat on the long sweeps which seemed to "melt" quicker than the nodes and straightened out incredibly well. I could not straighten the strip at all without heat at the nodes.Cheers,Jon McAnulty At 01:13 PM 11/27/2001 -0500, WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Jojo, Yes, water greatly facilitates suppleness upon heating. But, yes, too, onlysufficient heat will accomplish permanent straightening. But if saturated cane becomes sufficiently supple for straightening wellbefore enough heat is applied to accomplish "plasticizing," how shall weknow what additional temperatures shall be required? It is true that a heat gun set on "high" will product temps of 1000 degrees,and it is also true that water-saturated cane will conduct heat more quicklythan would dry cane. But, still, if the suppleness of saturated cane is anunreliable guide, how shall we know if we have applied enough heat toplasticize? This issue runs the risk of becoming merely theoretical, but in purelypractical terms, I still worry about not accomplishing what I had expectedto be accomplishing. Certainly I wish no convey no disrespect, but yoursuccess with the process speaks, I think, more to your learned skills inmanaging these paramaters, than perhaps it does to the advisability of theprocess itself. Certainly, heat-straightening saturated cane goes quickly and easily, but Icontinue to wonder if it is good practice--especially for those lacking agreat deal of experience. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:30 AMSubject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? You are correct that the heat is the key. I do believe that your fears arefounded given that enough heat has not been applied, and only the suppleness of the strip is relied upon to facilitate the straightening process, but not warranted given the proper use of heat. The water merely serves tofacilitate the heating process and , in and of itself, should not be relied upon to facilitate any straightening/pressing process. M-D from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 27 16:09:35 2001 fARM9YH06635 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:09:34 - Subject: RE: ferrule making HI Bill:Tom Ausfeld has a very detailed primer in the upcoming Power Fibers(January15, 2001). It includes his detailed step by step process and good pictures.He is a very accomplished rodmaker and ferrule maker. I was very impressedwith his items when he visited me this summer.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: ferrule making I've been tooling up to make my own ferrules and was wondering if anybodyhas any suggestions or pointers or warnings. I have no experience as amachinist, but I've been piddling around with my grizzly 7X10, so I'mfamiliar with the machine. I've studied the outline by dave leclair published in an older issue ofpowerfibers, but it is very basic and assumes you know what you are doingin the first place (which I don't). SOOO. I have a couple of questions: 1. would anyone care to publish a detailed primer? 2. is a reamer necessary for each size, or will one reamer fit severalsizes? Which reamers would you suggest? 3. I've bought a fair amount of NS tubing in sizes from 11-15. I'm prettysure that the wall thickness isn't sufficient to machine a welt on thefemale. Anyone out there know how to apply a welt to NS tubing? Thanks, everyone Bill from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Nov 27 16:28:25 2001 fARMSOH08399 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:28:24 -0600 (63.228.45.240) Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Harry straight is one thing Nodes poping back out is another. If fairlyclose rough strips are bound they stay straight--------------------maybe-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bill, As you stated, perhaps this is simply an academic question... If the cane soaked for 4 days will stay straight, if no bumps return to the nodes during heat-treating, isn't the heat-treating itself accomplishing the "plasticizing" results we are hoping for? Does it matter even a little bit whether or not the cane is "plasticized" if it stays straight? Just wondering...Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: But if saturated cane becomes sufficiently supple for straightening wellbefore enough heat is applied to accomplish "plasticizing," how shall weknow what additional temperatures shall be required? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from rodwrapp@swbell.net Tue Nov 27 16:50:53 2001 fARMoqH09805 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:50:52 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Virus? Everyone needs to update you Virus Software, if you dont it will not detectthis Virus... Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- November 27, 2001 8:57 AMSubject: Virus? All, Today in my normal mail from the list I got one with an attachment from rodsupstream@exp... The subject was The World of Flyfishing Show: Ican't get the full address without opening the e-mail and with automaticallyopening attachments out there I am reluctant to try that. Does anyone knowif this is OK or something to just delete? Thanks, Hal Everyone needs to update you VirusSoftware, if you ----- Original Message ----- From: HalManas@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 20018:57 AMSubject: Virus?All, the list subject was opening the e-mail and with automatically opening attachments out there Iam from bob@downandacross.com Tue Nov 27 17:00:08 2001 fARMxwH10480 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:59:58 - Subject: RE: Splitting and sanding off nodes HI Ralph:With the disc sander I can take off the backs of the 6 strips pretty easily.I use 80 grit paper on the sander. I can even do the ridges on the enamelside with it if I bend the strip a bit when I do it. I usually flatten andfile that instead. I have used a planed to flatten the pith side ridges, andit works well. You are dead right about it being like hitting a brick wallthe first few strokes.I have a great big rounded (Half round and flat on the other side. NO ideawhat to call it) file. It does a great, fast job of creating an area fordisplacing the node into.Thanks for sharing your way. I must say that power tools scare me as well.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Splitting I have seen a lot on the handling of the internal ridge in a culm. Noone seems to do it like I do, and I am really comfortable with mymethod.I split in half, then in thirds. on the third splits I lay themrind down on the bench and whack away at the ridges with a cheap Searscopy of a #9 Stanley. It is set to take a pretty good slice. At firstit is like driving into a wall. Hard to get going, but after two orthree strokes, it suddenly becomes easy and flattens the bottom so thatthe third split can be split in thirds. Then the planning is done onthe pith of each of those splits. If I need a relief on the pith sideto displace the node, a small curved rasp will do the hob in only acouple of strokes. I have tried power sanding, too dangerous I ruinedtoo many strips. I wouldn't ever try to cut longitudinally on a bandsaw. I am a bit too fearful of losing some of my anatomy. Yes i stilldo the outside of the nodes with a No 20 mill bastard file. Only ifthere is a significant dip ahead of the node do I use heat to correct. Just my way. Why am i so different. Oh by the way, despite watchingBob Nunley and Tony Spezio carve out strips that are well nigh perfect,I am still using Garrison's splitting technique Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from wkifer@harborside.com Tue Nov 27 17:03:17 2001 fARN3GH10859 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:03:16 -0600 0000 ,"Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? At 01:09 PM 11/27/01, Adam Vigil wrote: Wayne, Good question. Now I will answer it with a question, Do you have BobMilwards book? Well, that's also a good question Adam. No, I haven't bought it yet. I guess that'll have to be my next book purchase. Actually, I was hoping to generate interest in including it in the current thread. It would seem to be a deciding factor in whether a strip maintains it's shape after compression or displacement. Insufficient heat to melt lignin would seem to result in nodes that will not maintain their compressed or displaced state. Heating soaked strips would seem to transfer heat quicker and prevent burning. It might also seem to boil more of the oils out resulting in drier, harder strips. The question in my mind is fiber separation as the result of steam expansion. This also may not be a factor if the lignin resolidifing bonds these fibers after cooling. Wayne from harms1@pa.net Tue Nov 27 17:22:39 2001 fARNMbH11977 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:22:37 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:20:14 - Subject: Fw: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Harry, Well, I'm thinking that if the strips remain straight, then you did it right (whatever that may be). Probably, if you're getting these results, it isbecause you DID cause the fibers to become plastic. My concerns were focused around my limited results, where I did not (and repeatedly) get strips that wanted to remain straight. I was thinking that there are probably a lot of guys out there, merrily wet-straightening their strips, and delighted just because those nasty nodes felt pliable. As to whether or not heat-treating causes plasticizing, I would think not.Others must correct me, but I think that considerably more heat would berequired for plasticizing than you would want to have in your oven. But, you know, Harry, if you are actually getting the results that you areafter, that is about all you would need to know. Right? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Cc: ; "Rodmakers discussion group" Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:15 PMSubject: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? Bill, As you stated, perhaps this is simply an academic question... If the cane soaked for 4 days will stay straight, if no bumps return to the nodes during heat-treating, isn't the heat-treating itself accomplishing the "plasticizing" results we are hoping for? Does it matter even a little bit whether or not the cane is "plasticized" if it stays straight? Just wondering...Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: But if saturated cane becomes sufficiently supple for straightening well before enough heat is applied to accomplish "plasticizing," how shall we know what additional temperatures shall be required? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Nov 27 17:49:20 2001 fARNnJH13538 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:49:19 - Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:49:06 -0800 Subject: Boiling? FILETIME=[19C0AC00:01C1779E] With latest thread about soaking, etc., has anyone out there tried soakin=g strips for a day or two then boiling them for about 10-15 minutes then =continuing on with node work, straightening, roughing out and heat treati=ng? John With latestth=read about soaking, etc., has anyone out there tried soaking strips for a= from wkifer@harborside.com Tue Nov 27 19:14:43 2001 fAS1EgH15504 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:14:42 - 0000 Subject: Re: Boiling? At 03:48 PM 11/27/01, John Long wrote: With latest thread about soaking, etc., has anyone out there tried soaking strips for a day or two then boiling them for about 10-15 minutes then continuing on with node work, straightening, roughing out and heat treating? John That's an interesting question John. According to the Northwestern Bamboo Society (I hope I've got that name right) part of curing bamboo culms is heating a rotating culm while wiping off the oils as they surface. I don't know if this is standard practice for the culms we receive but it would be interesting to know. It would appear that removal of the oils is a significant part of hardening bamboo as I'm led to understand. Wayne from beadman@mac.com Tue Nov 27 19:43:58 2001 fAS1hsH16335 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:43:58 - Subject: Re: Cutting 12' culms Thanks to all for the replies, both public and private. I guess I just assumed one should cut it exactly in half, but the more I thought about it, the more I figured there had to be a better way. Glad I asked the question. Claude from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Nov 27 20:14:34 2001 fAS2E7H17108 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:14:07 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:10:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Virus --------------40220D5B4945EF242017260F I also got the email from rodsupstream@exp.... Saved the whole thingto a floppy without opening and ran McAfee against it - said it is notinfected. Even though I updated McAfee last night, the xxx.datextension on the attachment is very suspicious. I got infected a coupleof months ago with a similar situation. Will forward a warning I received this AM on a new virus of the Sircamtype, which is what I had. What it did was to pick email addresseswherever it found them on my system, attach copies of files from mydocument file (now infected) (think about the potential damage if youhad some personal info or, worse, financial info on the system, and itgot sent to a complete stranger !!!) First warning I got was when it returned as being infected. Bought new copy of McAfee, which saideverything was OK. Only after the second update did it find theinfected file. Will correspond with McAfee right now as to how to determine if it is aproblem and update all. --------------40220D5B4945EF242017260F thing to a floppy without opening and ran McAfee against it - said it is couple of months ago with a similar situation.Will forward a warning I received this AM on a new virus of the Sircam wherever it found them on my system, attach copies of files from mydocumentfile (now infected) (think about the potential damage if you had somepersonalinfo or, worse, financial info on the system, and it got sent to a complete and to myself at work, which were rejected and returned as being after the second update did it find the infected file.Will correspond with McAfee right now as to how to determine if it isa problem and update all. --------------40220D5B4945EF242017260F-- from channer@frontier.net Tue Nov 27 20:18:48 2001 fAS2IgH17446 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:18:47 -0600 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:29:54 -0700 Subject: Re: unbleached cork M-D;Bummer! But I guess there's no avoiding it. Thanks for the info, guessI'll just have to scrub.John Jojo DeLancier wrote: John, I've seen cork sold that uses several different processes for the bleaching,but these were all for wine corks. If I'm not mistaken, the cork can't comeinto this country without the bleaching as this is used to control thevarious flora and fauna that may try to hitchhike. M-D from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Nov 27 20:24:18 2001 fAS2ODH17820 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:24:13 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:20:46 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Virus Alert from McAfee --------------8FB5C3E6D200D3D3802EFC3B Received this today from a friend who subscribes to McAfee's alertsystem --------------8FB5C3E6D200D3D3802EFC3B for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:20:31 -0500 ;Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:23:00 -0500Subject: [ISCT] Virus Alert |June 18, 2001) at 11/27/200108:23:00 AM ----- Forwarded by Carey Mitchell/SHAW on 11/27/2001 08:22 AM ----- clean-owner@is Subject: [ISCT] Virus Alert ct.org 11/27/2001 07:32 AM Please respond to clean (((((((((((((((((( McAfee.com Dispatch ))))))))))))))))))))) [This message is brought to you as a subscriber to theMcAfee.com Dispatch. To unsubscribe, please follow theinstructions at the bottom of the page.] ------------------------------------------------------------** VIRUS ALERT - W32/Badtrans@MM **------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Jerry,McAfee.com has received an increasing number of reports fromhome users with a new variant of Badtrans, referred to asBadtrans.b. AVERT has raised the Risk Assessment on thisvariant of W32/Badtrans@MM to HIGH RISK FOR CONSUMERS. VirusScan and other McAfee products with DAT files 4172 andhigher are protected from this variant. W32/Badtrans@MM is a mass-mailing worm that drops aremote-access Trojan. The virus arrives via the MicrosoftOutlook email program and attempts to send itself by replyingto unread email messages. The email may contain the text "Take a look to the attachment"in the message body and will contain an attachment that is13,312 bytes in size. The attachment name is created inthree sections, for example, card.doc.pif. W32/Badtrans@MM virus, click here, or copy the link below into a browser:=> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=2608 Jerry KessieDirector of Communication TechnologyThe International Society of Cleaning Technicians (ISCT)(800) Why-ISCTInternet: www.isct.orgE-Mail: JLKessie@isct.orgeFax: (801) 437-3448 --------------8FB5C3E6D200D3D3802EFC3B-- from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 21:36:36 2001 fAS3aZH20287 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:36:35 -0600 helo=default) id 168vWU-0001uS-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:36:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Boiling? The volatile oils are to a large degree cooked out of the strips during theheat treating process, depending upon the time/temp used. Cross's testsdemonstrated this. No one really seems to know exactly what is occurringwith the volatile oils, or what their purpose is, except perhaps as somekind of insect deterrent. It is not clear that the volatile oils have anyeffect, one way or the other, on the strength, resilience, or deflectivecapabilities of bamboo. To touch on a previous post:When the bamboo is sufficiently heated, a plasticization of the ligninsoccur, the bound moisture is released, leaving hydroxyl groups, strongbonding agents, which then seek each other out, and leave a resulting crosslinking. M-D At 03:48 PM 11/27/01, John Long wrote: With latest thread about soaking, etc., has anyone out there tried soaking strips for a day or two then boiling them for about 10-15 minutes thencontinuing on with node work, straightening, roughing out and heat treating? John That's an interesting question John. According to the Northwestern Bamboo Society (I hope I've got that nameright) part of curing bamboo culms is heating a rotating culm while wipingoff the oils as they surface. I don't know if this is standard practice for the culms we receive but it would be interesting to know. It would appearthat removal of the oils is a significant part of hardening bamboo as I'mled to understand. Wayne from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Tue Nov 27 22:01:08 2001 fAS417H21319 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:01:07 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:00:55 - Subject: Re: Splitting I still use the method I learned from Wayne Cattanach. Don't do anythingwith the nodal dams until the strips are split to final size, then planethe back side of the node flush with a block plane. I haven't had anyproblem splitting strips with the nodal dams in place. I'd probably use a sander or bandsaw if I had one. from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Nov 27 22:01:57 2001 fAS41pH21401 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:01:51 -0600 Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:01:44 +1100 Subject: Re: Boiling? FILETIME=[64F8B960:01C177C1] M-D: I am wondering if the bonded water also unbonds in very old cane.Perhaps because of even periodic dry, maybe hot conditions. I have thisold cane (at least 20 years old) that has been heat treated to anunknown degree, and it is extremely hard.When soaked at length a lot of gunk dissolves out that is dark andmalodorous. Sean Jojo DeLancier wrote: The volatile oils are to a large degree cooked out of the strips during theheat treating process, depending upon the time/temp used. Cross's testsdemonstrated this. No one really seems to know exactly what is occurringwith the volatile oils, or what their purpose is, except perhaps as somekind of insect deterrent. It is not clear that the volatile oils have anyeffect, one way or the other, on the strength, resilience, or deflectivecapabilities of bamboo. To touch on a previous post:When the bamboo is sufficiently heated, a plasticization of the ligninsoccur, the bound moisture is released, leaving hydroxyl groups, strongbonding agents, which then seek each other out, and leave a resultingcrosslinking. M-D from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 22:14:59 2001 fAS4EsH22245 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:14:54 -0600 helo=default) id 168w7Z-0006H8-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:14:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Boiling? Well, I learned a long time ago to say "I don't know", and you know what? Idon't know, Sean. Bound water is usually so at the cellular level andrequires some type of process to cause it to unbind, i.e., heat, orchemicals. So, I really don't know, nor do I have any idea of what it isthat you are seeing so dark and malodorous. Not exactly what you had hopedfor, huh? I could bullshit you, if it makes you feel better. ;o) M-D From: "Sean McSharry" M-D: I am wondering if the bonded water also unbonds in very old cane.Perhaps because of even periodic dry, maybe hot conditions. I have thisold cane (at least 20 years old) that has been heat treated to anunknown degree, and it is extremely hard.When soaked at length a lot of gunk dissolves out that is dark and malodorous. Sean Jojo DeLancier wrote: The volatile oils are to a large degree cooked out of the strips during the heat treating process, depending upon the time/temp used. Cross's tests demonstrated this. No one really seems to know exactly what is occurring with the volatile oils, or what their purpose is, except perhaps as some kind of insect deterrent. It is not clear that the volatile oils have any effect, one way or the other, on the strength, resilience, or deflective capabilities of bamboo. To touch on a previous post:When the bamboo is sufficiently heated, a plasticization of the lignins occur, the bound moisture is released, leaving hydroxyl groups, strongbonding agents, which then seek each other out, and leave a resulting cross linking. M-D from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Nov 27 22:21:42 2001 fAS4LbH22678 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:21:41 - (authenticated) Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:20:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Boiling? Wayne Kifer wrote: According to the Northwestern Bamboo Society (I hope I've got that nameright) part of curing bamboo culms is heating a rotating culm while wipingoff the oils as they surface. Wayne,Your post brings to mind an experience I had while trying to make somestrips from Louisiana bamboo -- not arundinaria amibilis. It grows wild around here,acres and acres of it. I cut some a few years ago and learned a couple oflessons. First, this bamboo has a waxy outer coating that must be removedtofacilitate drying. If the waxy surface isn't cleaned, the bamboo will staygreen cut 6years ago, and is still green. If I remember Luis Marden's work correctly, part of the processing ofTonkinbamboo involves scrubbing with river sand and rinsing in river water toremove asimilar coating. I used medium Scotch brite and a water hose. Second, the reason I gave up working with this bamboo had nothing to dowithwhether or not its suitable for making rods. I never got that far. When Isplitit and started heating to straighten nodes, a gooey ooze ran everywhere. Themore I heated, the more it oozed. Right out through the enamel. Perhaps if Ihad slowly heated and wiped, and heated and wiped, I would have eventuallyremoved much of the oils. I eventually cut some of this Louisiana bamboo into strips and made aframe justheated it, and let the resulting ooze dry. Looks just like I sprayed it with acan of polyurethane... Just thought it might be interesting to some of y'all. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 22:27:55 2001 fAS4RsH23142 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:27:54 -0600 helo=default) id 168wK8-0001n3-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:27:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Boiling? Harry, That *was* interesting. Maybe you could harvest some of that bamboo,extractthe resinous mixture, and create your own bamboo finish for rods. Tung oil,linseed oil? All junk. Use the real thing: Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil Varnish,Liniment, and Toddy Tonic. Good for what ails ye'. M-D Wayne Kifer wrote: According to the Northwestern Bamboo Society (I hope I've got thatnameright) part of curing bamboo culms is heating a rotating culm while wiping off the oils as they surface. Wayne,Your post brings to mind an experience I had while trying to make some strips from Louisiana bamboo -- not arundinaria amibilis. It grows wild around here, acres and acres of it. I cut some a few years ago and learned a couple oflessons. First, this bamboo has a waxy outer coating that must beremoved to facilitate drying. If the waxy surface isn't cleaned, the bamboo will stay green cut 6 years ago, and is still green. If I remember Luis Marden's work correctly, part of the processing of Tonkin bamboo involves scrubbing with river sand and rinsing in river water to remove a similar coating. I used medium Scotch brite and a water hose. Second, the reason I gave up working with this bamboo had nothing to do with whether or not its suitable for making rods. I never got that far. When I split it and started heating to straighten nodes, a gooey ooze ran everywhere. The more I heated, the more it oozed. Right out through the enamel. Perhaps if I had slowly heated and wiped, and heated and wiped, I would have eventuallyremoved much of the oils. I eventually cut some of this Louisiana bamboo into strips and made a frame I just heated it, and let the resulting ooze dry. Looks just like I sprayed it with a can of polyurethane... Just thought it might be interesting to some of y'all. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Tue Nov 27 22:30:05 2001 fAS4TxH23337 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:29:59 -0600 helo=default) id 168wMA-00025X-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:29:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Boiling? This kind of information does not need to fall into the wrong hands . . .perhaps it already has -- rodmakers. (Spooky music here) M-D Hey... he might be on to something here. This just might be the secret tocold fusion. Bound HOH + Bamboo + Time. Since no energy is used to break the bonds, there must be a tremendous energy release when the reactionoccurs.Hmmm... on the other hand, perhaps this accounts for the snap, crackleandpop we have previously attributed to cane drying. We are actually hearingtiny thermonuclear reactions! Larry Blan From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu M-D: I am wondering if the bonded water also unbonds in very old cane.Perhaps because of even periodic dry, maybe hot conditions. I have thisold cane (at least 20 years old) that has been heat treated to anunknown degree, and it is extremely hard.When soaked at length a lot of gunk dissolves out that is darkand malodorous. Sean Jojo DeLancier wrote: The volatile oils are to a large degree cooked out of the strips during the heat treating process, depending upon the time/temp used. Cross's tests demonstrated this. No one really seems to know exactly what is occurring with the volatile oils, or what their purpose is, except perhaps as some kind of insect deterrent. It is not clear that the volatile oils have any effect, one way or the other, on the strength, resilience, or deflective capabilities of bamboo. To touch on a previous post:When the bamboo is sufficiently heated, a plasticization of the lignins occur, the bound moisture is released, leaving hydroxyl groups, strongbonding agents, which then seek each other out, and leave a resulting cross linking. M-D from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Nov 27 22:58:22 2001 fAS4wLH24743 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:58:21 - for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:58:05 - Subject: Re: Medved Beveler Question I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to me off list. The light bulb finally went on and now I understand that the small bolt acts as a stop to prevent further beveling, and the longer bolt is used to adjust the cutting depth. One person suggesting removing no more than 1/32" per pass through the beveler. Kyle from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 28 00:07:35 2001 fAS67UH27226 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:07:30 - femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:07:30 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Straightening Strips Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips thelast few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so they couldbeformed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up sometable salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Setthe can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till therewas a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushed thoughtheholes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt andwaitedtill the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on thepith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put apiece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the canso the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something tokeep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils?What do you think?Don Schneider from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 28 00:44:48 2001 fAS6ilH28365 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:44:47 - femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:44:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Jason,To me it seemed to do a better job, or more even, because the hot salt incompletely around the strip. There was no scorching as there is sometimeswith a heat gun. I have to say, the temp of the salt is uniform and once hotit stays hot for a long time.I'm thinking an expansion of this idea could be heat treating the wholesection. Who knows, it could called a "Salt Rod"!Don Hi, Do you think this worked better than a heat gun for heating the bamboo? Ihaven't yet straightened any nodes, but the idea sounds intriguing. Jason from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Nov 28 03:41:48 2001 fAS9flH00913 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:41:47 - fAS9fPA59768; Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms John Am I missing something here? I start with about 6' length; suppose I havereally struck it lucky and get say15" internodes, so I have to slip 2 stripsback 5" and 2 back 10", that's for 2X2X2, so I am losing 10" off my length.So I still have about 5'0", which still leaves me plenty of slop for gettingrid of the crummy bits as a rule and still have enough to make a 9'0" rod ifI want to, which incidentally I pretty well never do. Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 28 05:39:31 2001 fASBdLH01994 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 05:39:26 - Subject: Re: Virus That was an interesting case. I got the same message but I got it on PINE on a Linux machine set to include text files within the body of the message not as an attachment so I got a whole screen of gibberish that looked very virus like. I deleted it without checking because in that state it was harmless to my system anyhow (there are virus for Linux too) but it was interesting. Tony At 09:19 PM 11/27/01 -0500, carey mitchell wrote: I also got the email from rodsupstream@exp.... Saved the whole thing to a floppy without opening and ran McAfee against it - said it is not infected. Even though I updated McAfee last night, the xxx.dat extension on the attachment is very suspicious. I got infected a couple of months ago with a similar situation. Will forward a warning I received this AM on a new virus of the Sircam type, which is what I had. What it did was to pick email addresses wherever it found them on my system, attach copies of files from my document file (now infected) (think about the potential damage if you had some personal info or, worse, financial info on the system, and it got sent to a complete stranger !!!) First warning I got was when it sent emails to yahoo.com and to myself at work, which were rejected and returned as being infected. Bought new copy of McAfee, which said everything was OK. Only after the second update did it find the infected file. Will correspond with McAfee right now as to how to determine if it is a problem and update all. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 28 06:04:48 2001 fASC4mH02367 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:04:48 -0600 Subject: Re: unbleached cork John, What is your scrubbing procedure? All I have ever done is sand. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO channer wrote: M-D;Bummer! But I guess there's no avoiding it. Thanks for the info, guessI'll just have to scrub. from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 28 06:12:55 2001 fASCCsH02642 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:12:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Boiling? M-D, Voatile oils? I wonder if this can be part of what is leaching out inour extended soaking of strips? Could be another positive reason forsoaking. I am going to have to get that water analyzed. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Jojo DeLancier wrote: The volatile oils are to a large degree cooked out of the strips during theheat treating process, depending upon the time/temp used. Cross's testsdemonstrated this. No one really seems to know exactly what is occurringwith the volatile oils, or what their purpose is, except perhaps as somekind of insect deterrent. It is not clear that the volatile oils have anyeffect, one way or the other, on the strength, resilience, or deflectivecapabilities of bamboo. from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Nov 28 06:24:11 2001 fASCOAH02976 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:24:10 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 1693l3-0000bZ-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:24:09 -0500 Subject: Fiberglass Rod - eBay I bumped into an interesting fiberglass A&F Banty (1oz.?) on eBay. =Either 4'4" or 44" 2 pc. Item # is 1039682146 if you want to take a =look. No interest, yada, etc.Ed I bumped into an interesting fiberglass= Banty (1oz.?) on eBay. Either 4'4" or 44" 2 pc. Item # is 1039682146 if = Ed from channer@frontier.net Wed Nov 28 06:53:14 2001 fASCrDH03557 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:53:13 - Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms Peter;No, your not missing anything, your 6' length I believe is half theculm, one half for tips, the other for butts. In Garrisons day, thelength available at retail was 8', I suppose the companies that boughtin quantity got 12'ers, but I'm not really sure, maybe the 8' culm waswhy there were so many 3 pc rods made.John Peter McKean wrote: John Am I missing something here? I start with about 6' length; suppose I havereally struck it lucky and get say15" internodes, so I have to slip 2 stripsback 5" and 2 back 10", that's for 2X2X2, so I am losing 10" off my length.So I still have about 5'0", which still leaves me plenty of slop for gettingrid of the crummy bits as a rule and still have enough to make a 9'0" rod ifI want to, which incidentally I pretty well never do. Peter from harms1@pa.net Wed Nov 28 07:36:32 2001 fASDaVH04231 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:36:31 - ,"RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Don, I'm thinking that if this process really works efficiently, and doesn'tscorch the cane, someone might want to think about making and marketingtheunits. A little R&D would be needed to work out optimum materials,dimensions and heating parameters, but it doesn't sound like that would bemuch of a problem. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Straightening Strips Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so theycould be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushed though the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt and waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put apiece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Nov 28 08:09:31 2001 fASE9UH04998 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:09:30 -0600 (authenticated) Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:09:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Boiling? MD, I'll be glad to harvest some and extract the oils. But it's going to be along, delicate process. Those of you who are interested in samples, pleaseletme know. In the spirit of Ray and Tom Magiozzi (sp?), make your requests in Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil VarnishR&D Department#1 Bubba LanePodunk, Louisiana BR - 549 Thanks,Junior Jojo DeLancier wrote: That *was* interesting. Maybe you could harvest some of that bamboo,extractthe resinous mixture, and create your own bamboo finish for rods. Tung oil,linseed oil? All junk. Use the real thing: Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil Varnish,Liniment, and Toddy Tonic. Good for what ails ye'. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Nov 28 08:51:34 2001 fASEpYH06183 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:51:34 -0600 0000 (63.228.45.211) Subject: Re: Boiling? Harry,What would really be neat would be some reports on rods built from nativecane-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Boiling? MD, I'll be glad to harvest some and extract the oils. But it's going to be a long, delicate process. Those of you who are interested in samples, please let me know. In the spirit of Ray and Tom Magiozzi (sp?), make your requests in Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil VarnishR&D Department#1 Bubba LanePodunk, Louisiana BR - 549 Thanks,Junior Jojo DeLancier wrote: That *was* interesting. Maybe you could harvest some of that bamboo, extract the resinous mixture, and create your own bamboo finish for rods. Tung oil, linseed oil? All junk. Use the real thing: Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil Varnish, Liniment, and Toddy Tonic. Good for what ails ye'. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 28 09:11:57 2001 fASFBuH07239 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:11:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Boiling? Makes all the dif in Scotch. Tony At 06:13 AM 11/28/01 -0800, Steve Trauthwein wrote: M-D, Voatile oils? I wonder if this can be part of what is leaching out inour extended soaking of strips? Could be another positive reason forsoaking. I am going to have to get that water analyzed. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Jojo DeLancier wrote: The volatile oils are to a large degree cooked out of the strips during theheat treating process, depending upon the time/temp used. Cross'stestsdemonstrated this. No one really seems to know exactly what isoccurringwith the volatile oils, or what their purpose is, except perhaps as somekind of insect deterrent. It is not clear that the volatile oils have anyeffect, one way or the other, on the strength, resilience, or deflectivecapabilities of bamboo. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 09:14:08 2001 fASFE8H07438 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:14:08 -0600 helo=default) id 1696PX-0006jj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:14:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Boiling? I suppose it's possible. When I think of an oil I think of something that isnot water soluble, but since I have no idea the composition of the volatileoils in bamboo . . . M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Boiling? M-D, Voatile oils? I wonder if this can be part of what is leaching out inour extended soaking of strips? Could be another positive reason forsoaking. I am going to have to get that water analyzed. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Jojo DeLancier wrote: The volatile oils are to a large degree cooked out of the strips during the heat treating process, depending upon the time/temp used. Cross's testsdemonstrated this. No one really seems to know exactly what isoccurringwith the volatile oils, or what their purpose is, except perhaps as somekind of insect deterrent. It is not clear that the volatile oils have any effect, one way or the other, on the strength, resilience, or deflectivecapabilities of bamboo. from anglport@con2.com Wed Nov 28 09:14:44 2001 fASFEhH07543 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:14:43 - Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Heads up all! I just got something from "flyfish" titled "Make a Dubbing" and my Norton AVsays it was a virus. Don't know if it came through the list or an othersource.Good luck,Art from jteft@frontiernet.net Wed Nov 28 09:18:50 2001 fASFIoH07975 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:18:50 - 0000 sender ) Subject: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) Have some bamboo that I thought I would like to make rod tubes out of.Those who have done this before how did you clear the dams etc. I =thought I could split in 2 pieces file out the dams and pith then glue =back together. Could run a circle saw down the bamboo and clear out as =much as possible. I have bit extensions.One section has a big growers =mark which I thought would be neat.Advice would be appreciated.Jim T Have some bamboo that I thought I would like to make= out of.Those who have done this before how did you clear = etc. I thought I could split in 2 pieces file out the dams and pith then = back together. Could run a circle saw down the bamboo and clear out as = possible. I have bit extensions.One section has a big growers mark which = thought would be neat.Advice would be appreciated.Jim T from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 09:20:40 2001 fASFKdH08194 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:20:39 -0600 helo=default) id 1696Vq-0007hY-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:20:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Boiling? Money's on the way, Harry! Confederate money is still good, isn't it? Thataddress looks just a little suspicious, though. M-D MD, I'll be glad to harvest some and extract the oils. But it's going to be a long, delicate process. Those of you who are interested in samples, please let me know. In the spirit of Ray and Tom Magiozzi (sp?), make your requests in Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil VarnishR&D Department#1 Bubba LanePodunk, Louisiana BR - 549 Thanks,Junior Jojo DeLancier wrote: That *was* interesting. Maybe you could harvest some of that bamboo, extract the resinous mixture, and create your own bamboo finish for rods. Tung oil, linseed oil? All junk. Use the real thing: Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil Varnish, Liniment, and Toddy Tonic. Good for what ails ye'. from geert.poorteman@undp.org Wed Nov 28 09:42:17 2001 fASFgGH09483 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:42:16 -0600 fASFgBA16336 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:42:11 -0500 Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:32:58 +0200 Rodmakers discussion group Subject: Re: Boiling? Hi Dave,I've been building with local cane here, but I live in Africa. I have not a cluewhether it is the real stuff (could be, lots of experiments were done herewithacclimatization of non indigenous species) or a local veriety (which it veryprobably is). They come from an altitude of about 1500m and more andburundi isabout 500 Km south of the equator. They usually grow on slopes not usedforagriculture. I have not much experience with tonkin rods but when I build a #4rod, it behaves as a #4 rod when i cast it. One difference with tonkin cane isthe distance of the nodes, which is about 2 feet on my cane. The nodes arebigger, and so I build nodeless.Geert Dave Norling a Äcrit: Harry,What would really be neat would be some reports on rods built from nativecane-----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd Cc: Rodmakers discussion group Date: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:10 AMSubject: Re: Boiling? MD, I'll be glad to harvest some and extract the oils. But it's going to be a long, delicate process. Those of you who are interested in samples,please let me know. In the spirit of Ray and Tom Magiozzi (sp?), make yourrequests in Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil VarnishR&D Department#1 Bubba LanePodunk, Louisiana BR - 549 Thanks,Junior Jojo DeLancier wrote: That *was* interesting. Maybe you could harvest some of that bamboo, extract the resinous mixture, and create your own bamboo finish for rods. Tung oil, linseed oil? All junk. Use the real thing: Dr. Boyd's Bamboo Oil Varnish, Liniment, and Toddy Tonic. Good for what ails ye'. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Nov 28 09:44:20 2001 fASFiJH09768 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:44:19 - Subject: RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) Jim, A thought for your bamboo rod tubes; I have made a couple of PVC pipe tubes, what I do is cut them split in halfand then hinge the two pieces. Plug each end with a flat piece of eitherplastic or wood. The reason I like the hinged tube is you are not stretchingyour arms out trying to get the rod out, just open and pick it up. I thinkthis would be a slick way of making bamboo tubes. Pete-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) Have some bamboo that I thought I would like to make rod tubes out of.Those who have done this before how did you clear the dams etc. I thoughtI could split in 2 pieces file out the dams and pith then glue backtogether. Could run a circle saw down the bamboo and clear out as much aspossible. I have bit extensions.One section has a big growers mark which Ithought would be neat.Advice would be appreciated.Jim T Jim, thought for your bamboo rod tubes; made a couple of PVC pipe tubes, what I do is cut them split in half and = hinge the two pieces. Plug each end with a flat piece of either plastic = The reason I like the hinged tube is you are not stretching your arms = to get the rod out, just open and pick it up. I think this would be a = of making bamboo tubes. Pete TefftSent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:17 = rodmakersSubject: Rod Tubes(Bamboo)Have some bamboo that I thought I would like to = tubes out of.Those who have done this before how did you clear = etc. I thought I could split in 2 pieces file out the dams and pith = back together. Could run a circle saw down the bamboo and clear out as = possible. I have bit extensions.One section has a big growers mark = thought would be neat.Advice would be appreciated.JimT from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 09:47:22 2001 fASFlLH10103 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:47:21 -0600 helo=default) id 1696vg-0003LM-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:47:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips A very novel approach, Don, and quite intriguing. I wonder if clay wouldsuffice, since it too holds heat well. Kitty litter, without all the scents,clumping, etc, might work. There is some compound, and I can't think of whatit is, that might work well if it will withstand that much heat. Ever seeone of those gel packs used for heating? There's something else that mightwork, too, but I'm having massive brain farts this morning, and an acutecase of CRS. Let me get a cup of coffee down, I'll think about it, and maybeI can remember who I am and why I wrote this. M-D Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so theycould be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushed though the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt and waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put apiece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from beadman@mac.com Wed Nov 28 09:55:30 2001 fASFtUH10769 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:55:30 - Subject: RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) 1205159571==_ma============" --============_-1205159571==_ma============ Didn't Max post a URL for a Japanese rodmaker who made rod tubes out of cane about a year ago or so? Claude At 10:45 AM -0500 , 11/28/01, Peter Van Schaack wrote about RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo)Jim, A thought for your bamboo rod tubes; I have made a couple of PVC pipe tubes, what I do is cut them split in half and then hinge the two pieces. Plug each end with a flat piece of either plastic or wood. The reason I like the hinged tube is you are not stretching your arms out trying to get the rod out, just open and pick it up. I think this would be a slick way of making bamboo tubes. --============_-1205159571==_ma============ RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo)Didn't Max post a URL for a Japanese rodmaker who made rod tubesout of cane about a year ago or so? Claude At 10:45 AM -0500 , 11/28/01, Peter Van Schaack wrote about RE:Rod Tubes (Bamboo)Jim, A thought for your bamboo rodtubes; I have made a couple of PVC pipe tubes,what I do is cut them split in half and then hinge the two pieces.Plug each end with a flat piece of either plastic or wood. The reasonI like the hinged tube is you are not stretching your arms out tryingto get the rod out, just open and pick it up. I think this would be aslick way of making bamboo tubes. --============_-1205159571==_ma============-- from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 28 09:58:28 2001 fASFwRH11019 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:58:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Great idea! What about sand? The pet stores sell a sand for reptile cagesthat has been washed and is a fine grained structure. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com P.S. I'll bet silica gel would work also. jojo@ipa.net wrote: A very novel approach, Don, and quite intriguing. I wonder if clay would suffice, since it too holds heat well. Kitty litter, without all the scents,clumping, etc, might work. There is some compound, and I can't think of whatit is, that might work well if it will withstand that much heat. Ever seeone of those gel packs used for heating? There's something else that mightwork, too, but I'm having massive brain farts this morning, and an acutecase of CRS. Let me get a cup of coffee down, I'll think about it, and maybeI can remember who I am and why I wrote this. M-D Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so theycould be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushed though the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt and waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put apiece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from earsdws@duke.edu Wed Nov 28 10:04:48 2001 fASG4lH11590 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:04:47 -0600 fASG4h622440; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Straightening Strips In the laboratory, we use glass bead sterilizers for small surgicalinstruments. The glass beads are very, very small and sit in a stainlesssteelbasin. They heat up quickly (sufficient to sterilize) and don't stick toanything we've ever put in them. I'll hunt up sources if anyone is interested.It does seem to me, though, that the relative speed benefit of the salt/glassbeads, etc is due to the relative effectiveness of the materials intransmittingHEAT to the cane. You can achieve this similar effect (without scorching) byuse of a tea kettle and steam.Regards, dws. Jojo DeLancier wrote: A very novel approach, Don, and quite intriguing. I wonder if clay wouldsuffice, since it too holds heat well. Kitty litter, without all the scents,clumping, etc, might work. There is some compound, and I can't think ofwhatit is, that might work well if it will withstand that much heat. Ever seeone of those gel packs used for heating? There's something else thatmightwork, too, but I'm having massive brain farts this morning, and an acutecase of CRS. Let me get a cup of coffee down, I'll think about it, and maybeI can remember who I am and why I wrote this. M-D From: "Don Schneider" Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so theycould be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushedthough the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt and waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put apiece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Nov 28 10:04:49 2001 fASG4mH11593 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:04:48 - id ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:58:15 -0500 id XJNZTY1M; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:58:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) Here's the link: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/hexastyle/ Claude Freaner wrote: Didn't Max post a URL for a Japanese rodmaker who made rod tubes outof cane about a year ago or so? Claude At 10:45 AM -0500 , 11/28/01, Peter Van Schaack wrote about RE: RodTubes (Bamboo)Jim, A thought for your bamboo rod tubes; I have made a couple of PVC pipe tubes, what I do is cut them split inhalf and then hinge the two pieces. Plug each end with a flat piece ofeither plastic or wood. The reason I like the hinged tube is you arenot stretching your arms out trying to get the rod out, just open andpick it up. I think this would be a slick way of making bamboo tubes. -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 10:10:48 2001 Received: from fASGAlH12464 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1697IM-0004kp-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed,28 Nov 2001 11:10:46 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Jojo DeLancier" References: Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Date: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I can see where all this willnow be going: The hunt for the perfect heating medium. Years of testing,arguing, someone will write a book, others will counter it. At least we'll havesome new fodder for discussion and something new for the archives. Won'tTA be so surprised? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh. Don has the start toa good idea here, but see what you've wrought???? The glass beads for beadblasting cabinets might work, too, as they are available in various sizes,some quite fine, more so than sand. M-D ----- Original Message - ---- From: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:03AM Subject: Re: Straightening Strips In the laboratory, we use glass bead sterilizers for small surgicalinstruments. The glass beads are very, very small and sit in a stainless steel basin. They heat up quickly (sufficient to sterilize) and don't stick toanything we've ever put in them. I'll hunt up sources if anyone is interested. It does seem to me, though, that the relative speed benefit of the salt/glass beads, etc is due to the relative effectiveness of the materials in transmitting HEAT to the cane. You can achieve this similar effect (without scorching) by use of a tea kettle and steam.Regards, dws. Jojo DeLancier wrote: A very novel approach, Don, and quite intriguing. I wonder if clay wouldsuffice, since it too holds heat well. Kitty litter, without all the scents, clumping, etc, might work. There is some compound, and I can't think of what it is, that might work well if it will withstand that much heat. Ever see one of those gel packs used for heating? There's something else that might work, too, but I'm having massive brain farts this morning, and an acutecase of CRS. Let me get a cup of coffee down, I'll think about it, and maybe I can remember who I am and why I wrote this. M-D From: "Don Schneider" Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so they could be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at the store. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushed though the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt and waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put a piece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Nov 28 10:11:57 2001 fASGBvH12702 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:11:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Bernard Hills used to use sand in his shop. Whenever I was there there was always bamboo sticking out of hot sand on top of the woodburning stove.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 10:12:08 2001 fASGC1H12715 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:12:01 -0600 helo=default) id 1697JY-0000M7-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:12:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo)Yep! M-D Didn't Max post a URL for a Japanese rodmaker who made rod tubes out ofcaneabout a year ago or so? Claude At 10:45 AM -0500 , 11/28/01, Peter Van Schaack wrote about RE: RodTubes(Bamboo)Jim, A thought for your bamboo rod tubes; I have made a couple of PVC pipe tubes, what I do is cut them split in halfand then hinge the two pieces. Plug each end with a flat piece of eitherplastic or wood. The reason I like the hinged tube is you are not stretchingyour arms out trying to get the rod out, just open and pick it up. I thinkthis would be a slick way of making bamboo tubes. from rmoon@ida.net Wed Nov 28 10:34:42 2001 fASGYfH14643 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:34:41 - 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) Seiji Urano of Tokyo makes bamboo rod cases. They are not i think ofTonkin Cane since the case is nearly three inches in diameter. Thebamboo is split longitudinally, hinged by cords and fasteners of cordshold it together. It is lined with I think Silk. Very Flashy You cansee it at the FFF's IFFC in Livingston, Mt. Urano's rods areexceptionally beautiful, The bamboo is a creamy white, gold hardware (atleast gold colored) Japanese Chestnut grip.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from bamboorods@saber.net Wed Nov 28 10:38:49 2001 fASGcmH15034 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:38:48 - for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:38:27 - Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe rodmakers unsubscribe =rodmakers from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Nov 28 10:45:43 2001 fASGjbH15652 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:45:42 - 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo)There is a Co. in China that makes a Bamboo rod =cases. They are relief carved with fishing scenes.I will send the list =pictures of the cases that I have.Best Hal. Subject: RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) Didn't Max post a URL for a Japanese rodmaker who made rod tubes out =of cane about a year ago or so? Claude At 10:45 AM -0500 , 11/28/01, Peter Van Schaack wrote about RE: Rod =Tubes (Bamboo)Jim, A thought for your bamboo rod tubes; I have made a couple of PVC pipe tubes, what I do is cut them split in =half and then hinge the two pieces. Plug each end with a flat piece of =either plastic or wood. The reason I like the hinged tube is you are not =stretching your arms out trying to get the rod out, just open and pick =it up. I think this would be a slick way of making bamboo tubes. RE: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) BLOCKQUOTE { MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px}DL { MARGIN- BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px}UL { MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px}OL { MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px}LI { MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px} There is a Co. in China that makes a = pictures of the cases that I have. Hal. ----- Original Message ----- Claude= Sent: Wednesday, November 28, = AMSubject: RE: Rod Tubes =(Bamboo) Didn't Max post a URL for a Japanese rodmaker who made rod tubes = cane about a year ago or so? Claude At 10:45 AM -0500 , 11/28/01, Peter Van Schaack wrote about RE: = (Bamboo)Jim, A thought for your bamboo rod =tubes; I have made a couple of PVC pipe tubes, = cut them split in half and then hinge the two pieces. Plug each end = flat piece of either plastic or wood. The reason I like the hinged = are not stretching your arms out trying to get the rod out, just open = it up. I think this would be a slick way of making bamboo =tubes. from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Nov 28 11:08:22 2001 fASH8MH17073 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:08:22 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Back in the early 70's our small group of rod builders tried using water andsteam and Fabric softener to straighten cane. I settled on building a quartzheat box that heated the cane for straighening. Have been using it sincethen, you don't get any charing of the cane and you can leave the cane onthe heater untill it is pliable and ready for straightening and nodepressing.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Straightening Strips I can see where all this will now be going: The hunt for the perfect heating medium. Years of testing, arguing, someone will write a book, others willcounter it. At least we'll have some new fodder for discussion and something new for the archives. Won't TA be so surprised?Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh. Don has the start to a good idea here,butsee what you've wrought???? The glass beads for bead blasting cabinets might work, too, as they areavailable in various sizes, some quite fine, more so than sand. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: Cc: "Rodmakers discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:03 AMSubject: Re: Straightening Strips In the laboratory, we use glass bead sterilizers for small surgicalinstruments. The glass beads are very, very small and sit in a stainless steel basin. They heat up quickly (sufficient to sterilize) and don't stick to anything we've ever put in them. I'll hunt up sources if anyone is interested. It does seem to me, though, that the relative speed benefit of the salt/glass beads, etc is due to the relative effectiveness of the materials in transmitting HEAT to the cane. You can achieve this similar effect (without scorching) by use of a tea kettle and steam.Regards, dws. Jojo DeLancier wrote: A very novel approach, Don, and quite intriguing. I wonder if clay would suffice, since it too holds heat well. Kitty litter, without all the scents, clumping, etc, might work. There is some compound, and I can't think of what it is, that might work well if it will withstand that much heat. Ever see one of those gel packs used for heating? There's something else that might work, too, but I'm having massive brain farts this morning, and an acute case of CRS. Let me get a cup of coffee down, I'll think about it, and maybe I can remember who I am and why I wrote this. M-D From: "Don Schneider" Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them sothey could be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at the store. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushed though the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the saltand waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put a piece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick together slightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Nov 28 11:08:34 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fASH8YH17128 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:08:34 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:08:30 -0600 Rodmakers Subject: RE: ferrule blueing- for beginners only I've used the powdered Kodak Fixer (hardener is part of the formula) atnormal working strength and it worked fine. At first it looked patchy but itgradually became very consistent. I just rubbed it on with a paper towelsoaked in fixer. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ferrule blueing- for beginners only Hi Peter, leaving on Friday:-))I have no clue what difference it will do in bluing. Its purpose is toharden the gelatine coat on film/paper, making it more resistance toscratch. I suppose it has no effect on NS. I never use hardener for bluingnor photo................. danny from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Nov 28 11:10:25 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fASHAOH17390 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:10:24 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:10:24 -0600 Peter McKean Subject: RE: buying a Plane What is the ideal relationship between the opening and depth of cut? I'm notsure I really understand that, though I was able to get the job done withplanes before I got a Hand Mill. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: buying a Plane The bevel up is used in conjunction with the adjustable mouth of the block plane which is why the relationship between the opening and depth of cut is so significant.With a bench plane where you can cut across the grain but it's more likely you'll be cutting along it the iron is mounted much steeper, it has a chip breaker and the distance from the front of the mouth opening all work to prevent tearing along the grain.It's a much better set up but a bit harder to do on a single handed plane. Tony At 08:51 PM 11/27/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Can I add to that? The blade in the block plane whether "low angle" or "high angle" is mounted and used with the bevel up, while the others are usedwith the bevel down. This is not rocket science, but it does have somepractical differences in the way you place the emphasis in sharpening yourblades.And while it's not a definitional thing, it is only in block planes that wesee throat adjustments (as opposed to frog adjustments) commonly used.Look at the pictures on the Lie Nielson website - if you have a miraculouslevel of self control. Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 28 11:22:30 2001 fASHMTH18249 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:22:29 -0600 femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:22:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips The idea of using glass beads sounds like it is worth a shot. I think glassbeads are readably available, they are also used for "Sand Blasting". There may be a beneficial side effect in using table salt, extracting water from the strips as what ever else is in there is being liquefied. I wouldthink this would be a good thing. Let me clarify my observations of the salt sticking together. The salt didnot stick to the bamboo, it formed a crust so to speak to itself. This waseasily taken care of between heating nodes with a putty knife to break upthe crust. Interestedly enough the crust started from the bottom andworkedits way up as the salt heated. Cause? I'm guessing, but it may be nothingmore than moisture in the salt, we'll see. The reasons I used table salt are:1. Its what the Eye Profession has been using for years.2. Its readily available at any grocery store.3. Its cheep as dirt.4. There is nothing else in it but salt.5. It holds even heat for a long time. The temp 1 hour after heat removal was 140Ÿ even with the small amountusedin this test. There was no scorching of the bamboo covered by the salt. I'm going leave atest strip in the salt to see how long it takes to burn. Will let you know. Lot more R&D to do on this project and I've used up a lot of band width.Will keep you posted.Don from bhoy551@earthlink.net Wed Nov 28 11:29:30 2001 fASHTKH18850 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:29:25 - Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:29:09 -0500 Subject: RE: ferrule making FILETIME=[307AD9E0:01C17832] Thanks to everyone who responded off list to my questions about ferrule making from NS tube, especially M-D who promised to snail mail me a copy of instructions, and double to Tony Spezio, who took the time to give me a step- by-step outline of the process. I usually like to figure things out myself before I query the list, but in this case I was absolutely cluleless and would never in a million years have figured it out by myself. Now that I have the concept, I think I can do it. THANKS, guys! bill hoy from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Nov 28 11:31:32 2001 fASHVWH19103 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:31:32 - Subject: Heater element Hello, Any sources on heater elements for heat treating ovens?? thankstom Hello, Any sources on heater elements for heat ovens?? thankstom from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Nov 28 11:37:13 2001 fASHbCH19647 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:37:12 - Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms All of the bamboo that I saw here in Canada from the 70's until about 10years ago were 8' long. I have a few 8' long pre- embargo culms that came from Demarest. Maybe this had something to do with shipping practise, but Ireally don't know the answer. from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Nov 28 11:44:57 2001 fASHiuH20313 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:44:56 - Subject: Re: Rod Tubes (Bamboo) Bob Milward makes an attractive bamboo rod case. There is a goodphotographof his work on the back cover of his book. from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Nov 28 11:47:51 2001 fASHloH20643 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:47:50 -0600 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Straightening Strips I wonder if the dessicant packed with electronic products would work? Haveno idea of how much heat it can absorb or withstand. from wkifer@harborside.com Wed Nov 28 11:58:18 2001 fASHwHH21377 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:58:17 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: Boiling? At 06:13 AM 11/28/01, Steve Trauthwein wrote: M-D, Voatile oils? I wonder if this can be part of what is leaching out inour extended soaking of strips? Could be another positive reason forsoaking. I am going to have to get that water analyzed. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Well, I don't know about the water leaching the oil out, but it might help in steaming more out when the strip is heated for pressing or displacing. Drop some of that liquid in a vial and have that tested? Wayne from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Nov 28 11:58:58 2001 fASHwwH21497 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:58:58 -0600 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 11:56:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Very interesting approach. The only downside to salt that I can see is that through spillage or sticking to the cane or whatever it may eventually get transferred to your tools and promote corrosion.Jon McAnulty from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 28 12:00:04 2001 fASI03H21699 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:00:03 - femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:59:58 -0800 Subject: Re: 6' Bamboo culms I think part of the answer for why 6 footers has to do with shipping lengthlimits through the mail.Don from paul@lifeware.com Wed Nov 28 12:03:47 2001 fASI3kH22050 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:03:47 - c0mailgw04.prontomail.com (NPlex 5.5.029) (NPlex 5.5.015) Subject: RE: Heater element TomGo to Wal-Mart and buy a 5-dollar hot plate and bend and un-coil theelement. The elements are pretty easy to bend. It'll unwind to about 6 feet.It already has the wiring and temperature control build in. Works great.Using 2 to power my oven. Paul Yorkwww.paulyork.com -----Original Message----- Ausfeld Subject: Heater element Hello, Any sources on heater elements for heat treating ovens?? thankstom 0DocumentEmail To=m Go=toWal-Mart and buy a 5-dollar hot plate and bend and un-coil the element. =Theelements are pretty easy to bend. It’ll unwind to about 6 feet. It =already hasthe wiring and temperature control build in. Works great. Using 2 to =power myoven. Pa=ul York ww=w.paulyork.com -----OriginalMessage-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = AusfeldSent: Wednesday,November =28, 200111:33 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Heater =element Hello, Any sourceson heater elements for heat treating ovens?? thanks tom from CALucker@aol.com Wed Nov 28 12:09:45 2001 fASI9fH22567 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:09:41 - Subject: Re: Straightening Strips rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 11/27/01 10:08:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.com writes: So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked upsometable salt, checked with an eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Perhaps try silica sand -- ash tray sand or Savory (sp) Island sand -- instead, or next time you play golf at a course that uses crushed marble instead of sand, fill your golf bag with the stuff. Chris Lucker In a message dated11/27/01 10:08:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@home.comwrites: So, I stopped bya restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up sometable salt, checked with an eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Perhaps try silica sand -- ash tray sand or Savory (sp) Island sand --instead, or next time you play golf at a course that uses crushed marbleinstead of sand, fill your golf bag with the stuff. Chris Lucker from bamboorods@saber.net Wed Nov 28 12:21:29 2001 fASILNH23291 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:21:28 - for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:21:20 - Subject: unsubscribe rodmakers unsubscribe rodmakers unsubscribe =rodmakers from wkifer@harborside.com Wed Nov 28 12:52:39 2001 fASIqcH24686 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:52:38 -0600 0000 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Straightening Strips At 09:22 AM 11/28/01, Don Schneider wrote: There may be a beneficial side effect in using table salt, extracting water from the strips as what ever else is in there is being liquefied. I would think this would be a good thing.Don Don, If memory serves me correctly, heated salt tanks are a preferred method heat treating and tempering custom knife blades due to very even and controllable heat. I envision a shallow heated salt tray, say 3" or 4" high x 30" wide and 6' long with a hinged lid,sectioned like a silverware drawer that would hold 12 strips. Remove the heated strips, drop them in a press of similar dimensions and press/displace and straighten all at once. Two marketable products besides the rods. D&#*, now I have something else to fixate on and I haven't got all my rod tools built yet. Maybe I'd better leave this one to you. ;^)) Wayne from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 13:08:34 2001 fASJ8SH25608 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:08:33 -0600 helo=default) id 169A4J-0003mt-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:08:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Actually, common table salt usually has potassium iodine added, as well asmagnesium carbonate, dextrose, sodium bicarbonate, and sometimes silicoaluminate. Salt sold for pickling usually is additive free. M-D The reasons I used table salt are:4. There is nothing else in it but salt. Don from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 28 14:27:42 2001 fASKRaH00969 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:27:36 - femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:27:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Good point. I plan on trying glass beads and silica sand also with this =experiment.Thanks for the input,Don I own a Belgian Browning over/under shotgun which had a beautiful walnut =stock. When corrosion began to occur, in spite of good care, I took it =to my gunsmith. He told me I had a SALT stock. Apparently the walnut was =stored in a cave with a high salt environment. Browning fixed all at no = Good point. I plan on trying glass = Thanks for the input,Don From:RFNUNN@aol.com = Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:25 AMSubject: Re: Straightening Strips I own a= Browning over/under shotgun which had a beautiful walnut stock. When = began to occur, in spite of good care, I took it to my gunsmith. He told = had a SALT stock. Apparently the walnut was stored in a cave with a high = NUNN from stoltz10@home.com Wed Nov 28 15:49:24 2001 fASLnOH05579 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:49:24 - femail40.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: test from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 28 15:58:52 2001 fASLwqH06128 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:58:52 - femail29.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:58:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Re: Straightening StripsClaude,I wouldn't think silica sand would cause a problem later when =varnishing. Silica sand is about like very fine ground up glass. =Silicone is any of various polymeric silicon compounds obtained as oil, =greases or plastics, this could cause a problem with varnish application =if not removed. At any rate I would follow my normal procedure of =cleaning prior to varnishing.Don Subject: Re: Straightening Strips At 12:27 PM -0800 , 11/28/01, Don Schneider wrote about Re: =Straightening StripsGood point. I plan on trying glass beads and silica sand also with this =experiment. Don - could the silica sand lead to problems later when varnishing, =because of silicon? Claude Re: Straightening Strips BLOCKQUOTE { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px}DL { MARGIN- TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px}UL { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px}OL { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px}LI { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px} Claude,I wouldn't think silica sand would = later when varnishing. Silica = like very fine ground up glass. Silicone is any of various polymeric = normal procedure of cleaning prior to varnishing.Don From:Claude =Freaner Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:32 PMSubject: Re: Straightening Strips At 12:27 PM -0800 , 11/28/01, Don Schneider wrote about Re: = Strips this experiment. Don - could the silica sand lead to problems later when varnishing, = of silicon? Claude from homes-sold@home.com Wed Nov 28 16:09:07 2001 fASM96H06817 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:09:06 - femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:08:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Mike,That would be two steps; One to press to nodes prior to planing and Two,Heat treat the bound strips after the initial planning which would also takeout the sweeps.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Straightening Strips I'm thinking of the nodes first then thr residual heat may help to removeany 'sweeps'. Whatcha thingk?Mike----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Mike,Are you talking about heat treating the entire section of a rod or just the doing the nodes?Don from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Nov 28 16:11:37 2001 fASMBWH07130 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:11:32 - for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:11:10+0100 (MET)User-Agent: Microsoft- Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Good by for now:-) fASMBbH07131 Hi friends, I'm ready to move down to NZ, leaving Friday. Ill unsubscribe to night, butwill be back to all of You in a couple of weeks time. Got to buy me a newpowerbook when I get to NZ. Slow down the pace on the list, cause I don't want to miss out onanything:-) later,danny 'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,....˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. Danny TwangPrivate: New Zealand from beadman@mac.com Wed Nov 28 16:59:01 2001 fASMx1H09885 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:59:01 - ;Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:59:00 -0800 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips 1205134156==_ma============" --============_-1205134156==_ma============ At 1:59 PM -0800 11/28/01, Don Schneider wrote:Claude,I wouldn't think silica sand would cause a problem later when varnishing. Silica sand is about like very fine ground up glass. Silicone is any of various polymeric silicon compounds obtained as oil, greases or plastics, this could cause a problem with varnish application if not removed. At any rate I would follow my normal procedure of cleaning prior to varnishing. Ok - I knew the difference between silicon and Silicone, but was just wondering if there could still be problems. I had forgotten that silica is silicon dioxide (i.e., glass), which is essentially non-reactive with any varnishes... Guess I need to go review my chemistry book again, huh? Claude--============_-1205134156==_ma============ Re: Straightening StripsAt 1:59 PM -0800 11/28/01, Don Schneider wrote:Claude,I wouldn't think silica sand would cause a problem later whenvarnishing. Silica sand is about like very fine ground up glass. as oil, greases or plastics, this could cause a problem with varnish normal procedure of cleaning prior to varnishing. Ok - I knew the difference between silicon and Silicone, but was forgotten that silica is silicon dioxide (i.e., glass), which isessentially non- reactive with any varnishes... Guess I need to go review my chemistry book again, huh? Claude --============_-1205134156==_ma============-- from cw@vanion.com Wed Nov 28 17:05:18 2001 fASN5CH10282 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:05:17 - for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:09:53 - Subject: heater elements I've been investigateing costs for elements for an oven, thru Tempco =Electric Co , www.tempco-electric.com , and they suggest a tube type =element for a still air application, like you'd see in an electric =range. That as opposed to a mica strip, which has to be fastened to a =ridgid base and is more prone to breakage. A 48" tube for up to 600* is =around $200, thermostate control/thermocoupler /box$80, and a setup fee=of $90. Talk to Jeff Connelly, 1-800-323-6859, or direct to him @ =630-477-3223. Can get a cat. from online site free. Chad I've been investigateing costs for= an oven, thru Tempco Electric Co , www.tempco-electric.com ,= suggest a tube type element for a still air application, like you'd see = electric range. That as opposed to a mica strip, which has to be = ridgid base and is more prone to breakage. A 48" tube for up to = around $200, thermostate control/thermocoupler /box$80, and a setup fee= Chad from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Nov 28 17:47:06 2001 fASNl5H11627 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:47:05 -0600 0000 (63.228.46.193) Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Must be a reason Opticians use salt and not sand-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Great idea! What about sand? The pet stores sell a sand for reptile cages that has been washed and is a fine grained structure. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com P.S. I'll bet silica gel would work also. jojo@ipa.net wrote: A very novel approach, Don, and quite intriguing. I wonder if clay would suffice, since it too holds heat well. Kitty litter, without all the scents, clumping, etc, might work. There is some compound, and I can't think of what it is, that might work well if it will withstand that much heat. Ever seeone of those gel packs used for heating? There's something else that mightwork, too, but I'm having massive brain farts this morning, and an acutecase of CRS. Let me get a cup of coffee down, I'll think about it, and maybe I can remember who I am and why I wrote this. M-D From: "Don Schneider" Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so theycould be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from the bottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushedthough the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt and waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put apiece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom of the can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 18:05:13 2001 fAT05CH12235 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:05:12 -0600 helo=default) id 169EhT-0008If-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:05:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips I'm sure there is, but what? It may have something to do with the plasticsthey use. It may be because that's the way it's been done for the last 50yr.., and someone wrote a book about doing it that way once, and no one hasever challenged, nor changed it. I dunno. I can't believe there are noO.D.'s nor Opthamologists on this List. Maybe they're not AR/OC enough to berodmakers. M-D Must be a reason Opticians use salt and not sand From: k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Great idea! What about sand? The pet stores sell a sand for reptile cages that has been washed and is a fine grained structure. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com P.S. I'll bet silica gel would work also. jojo@ipa.net wrote: A very novel approach, Don, and quite intriguing. I wonder if clay would suffice, since it too holds heat well. Kitty litter, without all the scents, clumping, etc, might work. There is some compound, and I can't think of what it is, that might work well if it will withstand that much heat. Ever seeone of those gel packs used for heating? There's something else that might work, too, but I'm having massive brain farts this morning, and an acutecase of CRS. Let me get a cup of coffee down, I'll think about it, and maybe I can remember who I am and why I wrote this. M-D From: "Don Schneider" Straightening Strips You guys talking about heating, pressing nodes and straightening strips the last few days made me get off it and actually do something I've beenthinking about for well over a year. Ever have a set of eyeglass frames fitted? They heated them so they could be formed didn't they. So, I stopped by a restaurant and ask them for a gallon can, Picked up some table salt, checked with a eye doctor and that is what they use, at thestore. Drilled two 1/2 holes opposite each other about 1 1/2" from thebottom. Set the can on a hot plate I have in the shop and poured in the salt till there was a mound large enough to cover a strip about 3/4" when pushedthough the holes. Turned on the hot plate, put my barbecue thermometer in the salt and waited till the temp got up to 300Ÿ. Inserted the strip, which I dished out on the pith side and prepped, turned to mush in about 1-2 minutes. Note: Put apiece of sheet metal protruding out from each side at the bottom ofthe can so the heat coming up around the can doesn't scorch the strip. Put the strip in the vice and presto, perfect! I need to refine this crude device a little, need a grommet or something to keep the salt from spilling out the holes, It is not much but.... Interesting thing I noted, something caused the salt to stick togetherslightly, I think some of it was moisture drawn out of the strip butsomething else caused a slight discoloration of the salt. The volatile oils? What do you think?Don Schneider from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Nov 28 18:17:56 2001 fAT0HtH12748 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:17:55 - Peter McKean Subject: RE: buying a Plane Always try for the most narrow mouth opening you can for the depth theiron is extended for. It's trial and error that only takes a pass or two but if the opening is too narrow you'll clog it, too wide and you'll tear the bamboo. There is a direct relationship between the two. Tony At 11:10 AM 11/28/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: What is the ideal relationship between the opening and depth of cut? I'm notsure I really understand that, though I was able to get the job done withplanes before I got a Hand Mill. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 4:19 AM Cc: rodmakersSubject: Re: buying a Plane The bevel up is used in conjunction with the adjustable mouth of the blockplane which is why the relationship between the opening and depth of cut isso significant.With a bench plane where you can cut across the grain but it's more likelyyou'll be cutting along it the iron is mounted much steeper, it has a chipbreaker and the distance from the front of the mouth opening all work toprevent tearing along the grain.It's a much better set up but a bit harder to do on a single handed plane. Tony At 08:51 PM 11/27/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Can I add to that? The blade in the block plane whether "low angle" or "high angle" is mounted and used with the bevel up, while the others are usedwith the bevel down. This is not rocket science, but it does have somepractical differences in the way you place the emphasis in sharpeningyourblades.And while it's not a definitional thing, it is only in block planes that wesee throat adjustments (as opposed to frog adjustments) commonlyused.Look at the pictures on the Lie Nielson website - if you have a miraculouslevel of self control. Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxenor 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Nov 28 18:27:54 2001 fAT0RrH13104 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:27:54 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips M-D, I believe you mean AR/(O/C). Whoops...that's me.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jojo DeLancier wrote: Maybe they're not AR/OC enough to be rodmakers. M-D from BambooRods@aol.com Wed Nov 28 18:32:58 2001 fAT0WrH13454 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:32:58 - Subject: Binding thread color May seem like a stupid question but.... would it be a problem if one used a color other than neutral for binding thread. I don't know it glace or quilting thread would bleed but the dealer I found cannot get neutral. Anyone know of a source for mettlers art 135, 40/3 in 500 yard spools.Doug HallBroad River Bamboo from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Nov 28 19:07:33 2001 fAT17XH15022 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:07:33 -0600 Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:07:27 -0800 Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:07:27 GMT Subject: Re: Heater element FILETIME=[365C0650:01C17872] Tom: strip heaters in a 4 ft length, ideal for a rod oven. The heater is 120 volt and nothing, but it did take some footwork to come up with it. Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from rkrees@mcn.net Wed Nov 28 19:12:32 2001 fAT1CVH15411 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:12:32 - RAA23092; Subject: Re: Binding thread color I like to use two color's one for tip's Other for Mids and Butt's It helpsme with the size!Ron from stoltz10@home.com Wed Nov 28 20:43:08 2001 fAT2h8H19940 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:43:08 - femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com Subject: Glue I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and why, =I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim I was wondering what kind of glue = glue blanks and why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing = mind. Thanks,Tim from channer@frontier.net Wed Nov 28 21:08:33 2001 fAT38VH21002 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:08:32 - Subject: Re: Glue Tim;Epon, no pressure, you got all night to get it bound and straightened.It's messy, but what isn't that's any good or fun. It also has prettymuch an indefinite shelf life, Bill Fink reports using Epon that was 10years old without any problems.John Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim from jojo@ipa.net Wed Nov 28 21:33:03 2001 fAT3WwH22046 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:32:58 -0600 helo=default) id 169HwX-0002sH-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:32:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue Epon here, too, though not a common mixture. John is correct that the resinhas an indefinite shelf life. Some of the curing agents require more care,such as keeping them tightly sealed, but most stand up to time quite well,also. Epoxies are amazing adhesives, and I've used them quite a lot in mylife, for various things, not just as adhesives but FRP's, coatings, etc.The Epon residue isn't difficult to remove while uncured, use white vinegar,and I scrape it off after 24 hr. without much problem. It must bethermo-cured to achieve maximum lap shear strength.I also use urea formaldehyde for the production rods. It is simpler to mix,remove the residue when uncured with water and the rest scrapes off easilywhen cured, doesn't require the thermo-cure, cheaper, and is damn strong. M-D Tim;Epon, no pressure, you got all night to get it bound and straightened.It's messy, but what isn't that's any good or fun. It also has prettymuch an indefinite shelf life, Bill Fink reports using Epon that was 10years old without any problems.John Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim from CALucker@aol.com Wed Nov 28 22:06:30 2001 fAT46UH23276 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:06:30 - Subject: Re: Glue Hide glue or Urac, or Weldwood sometimes. Hide is the easiest stuff to work with, especially if you are gluing a lot of sticks at a time. I use the hide glue you mix, not the stuff in the bottle. It is stronger than necessary and is easy to straighten with heat that will not scorch cane. Look at the stresses hide glue withstands in the bridge of a 75 year old steel string guitar.Chris from saweiss@flash.net Thu Nov 29 00:10:23 2001 fAT6AMH27652 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:10:22 - fAT6ADx298024 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:10:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Organization: Prodigy Internet Probably because any fine particles in the hinges will dissolve out withwater. Sand or glass will act like an abrasive in the hinges.When I used to do root canals I sterilized my files and reamers in a hotsalt bath. Any sand or glass could not be washed out of the canals and wouldbecome blockages, but the salt could be dissolved out with a little sterilewater.Steve Must be a reason Opticians use salt and not sand-----Original Message----- From>Great idea! What about sand? The pet stores sell a sand for reptilecagesthat has been washed and is a fine grained structure. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Nov 29 00:12:32 2001 fAT6CQH27895 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:12:31 - fAT6CLx155118 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:12:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Binding thread color Organization: Prodigy Internet MacramÄ thread works well, you can get it in neutral color. I use it to bind Steve May seem like a stupid question but.... would it be a problem if one used a color other than neutral for binding thread. I don't know it glace orquilting thread would bleed but the dealer I found cannot get neutral.Anyone know of a source for mettlers art 135, 40/3 in 500 yard spools.Doug HallBroad River Bamboo from saweiss@flash.net Thu Nov 29 00:21:36 2001 fAT6LZH28496 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:21:35 - fAT6LYx184924 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:21:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue Organization: Prodigy Internet Tim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just starting, I recommend =a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get proficient, a =faster setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't give =you much leeway if something doesn't work well, like binding cord =problems. You can remember all the words that are not polite in public =when your binder is having problems, the glue is sticking your fingers =together, and the binding cord is glued to your fingers and to the =wheels of the binder, and the telephone is ringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and =why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim Tim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just starting, I = glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get proficient, a faster = glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't give you much leeway = something doesn't work well, like binding cord problems. You can = the words that are not polite in public when your binder is having = glue is sticking your fingers together, and the binding cord is glued to = fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and the telephone is =ringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glue = to glue blanks and why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep = mind. Thanks, =Tim from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 29 02:36:15 2001 fAT8aFH01948 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:36:15 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Obsessive Compulsive? On a Rodmakers Listserv? Give me a break!I'm outta here... gotta go wash my hands again... it's been 5 minutes, yaknow! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Straightening Strips M-D,I believe you mean AR/(O/C). Whoops...that's me.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jojo DeLancier wrote: Maybe they're not AR/OC enough to be rodmakers. M-D from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 29 02:37:41 2001 fAT8bfH02060 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:37:41 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Binding thread color Doug,Colors are fine. I use red on the tips because it's easier to seetwists and such... which, by the way, are not NEAR as common since going toa 4 string binder. Later,bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Binding thread color May seem like a stupid question but.... would it be a problem if one used a color other than neutral for binding thread. I don't know it glace orquilting thread would bleed but the dealer I found cannot get neutral.Anyone know of a source for mettlers art 135, 40/3 in 500 yard spools.Doug HallBroad River Bamboo from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Nov 29 04:48:57 2001 fATAmtH03474 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 04:48:55 - fATAmaw44689; Subject: Re: Binding thread color I use any colour I can get hold of from the local upholsterer. It does bleeda bit in the oven, but it is VERY superficial, and is gone by the timethe rod is dressed. Peter from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Nov 29 05:18:58 2001 fATBIwH03860 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 05:18:58 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.665892 secs); 29 Nov 200111:07:35 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Glue --------------21B0835EB68E660AA8B9CE11 I used to use Urac but recently switched to Titebond II Extend waterbased (white glue)wood glue (not poly). Urac had a shelf life of only 8months or so and even then I noticed some glue failure when trimmingtips. Also I wasn't nuts about the toxicity of the stuff. With TitebondII extend I could dive right into the stuff and the joints (so far) areextremely strong. Only drawback is it is not as heat proof as uracalthough it is heat resistant. I heat straighten using less heat thenwith urac.Best, Marty Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing mymind. Thanks, Tim --------------21B0835EB68E660AA8B9CE11 I used to use Urac but recently switched to Titebond II Extend water based(white glue)wood glue (not poly). Urac had a shelf life of only 8 monthsor so and even then I noticed some glue failure when trimming tips. AlsoI wasn't nuts about the toxicity of the stuff. With Titebond II extendI could dive right into the stuff and the joints (so far) are extremelystrong. Only drawback is it is not as heat proof as urac although it isheat resistant. I heat straighten using less heat then with urac. Best, MartyTim Stoltz wrote: Iwas wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and why, I'mtrying to decide what to get and keep changing my Tim --------------21B0835EB68E660AA8B9CE11-- from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Nov 29 05:31:28 2001 fATBVRH04200 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 05:31:27 - Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Bob, You mean that you don't have hand baths situated all around you so you canjust reach in and give a scrub on an as needed basis?? What's up with that? ;o) John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Straightening Strips Obsessive Compulsive? On a Rodmakers Listserv? Give me a break!I'm outta here... gotta go wash my hands again... it's been 5 minutes, yaknow! ----- Original Message -----From: "Reed Curry" Cc: "Rodmakers discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:28 PMSubject: Re: Straightening Strips M-D,I believe you mean AR/(O/C). Whoops...that's me.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jojo DeLancier wrote: Maybe they're not AR/OC enough to be rodmakers. M-D from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 29 05:52:21 2001 fATBqKH04597 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 05:52:20 - Subject: Aluminum tubes A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter do youuse for two piece two tip rods? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 29 05:55:28 2001 fATBtSH04792 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 05:55:28 - Subject: Re: Glue Tim, I use Epon epoxy. It has a long open time, a long shelf life, is verystrong, shear resistant, water proof, etc. It is also easily available.The only issue I am looking at now is the difficulty straightening afterthe glue is set. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim from channer@frontier.net Thu Nov 29 06:55:20 2001 fATCtJH05595 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:55:19 - Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes 1 5/8" i.d.john Steve Trauthwein wrote: A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Nov 29 07:00:15 2001 fATD0EH05795 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:00:15 - 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Straightening Strips I thought AR/(O/C) was a requirement to be on this list. tom Obsessive Compulsive? On a Rodmakers Listserv? Give me a break!I'm outta here... gotta go wash my hands again... it's been 5 minutes, yaknow! ----- Original Message -----From: "Reed Curry" Cc: "Rodmakers discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 6:28 PMSubject: Re: Straightening Strips M-D,I believe you mean AR/(O/C). Whoops...that's me.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jojo DeLancier wrote: Maybe they're not AR/OC enough to be rodmakers. M-D from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Nov 29 07:00:15 2001 fATD0EH05794 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:00:15 - 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Glue Tim,Resorcinol is dark in color, an effect some people like. It will show =you if you have to make improvements on planing though, i.e glue lines. =I use urac from Nelson. I learned from Garrison's book, its what I =always have used, never thought about changing. I have not found a =reason to. Its easy to work with, clean up is no hassle, its cheap. =Only downfall is relativley short shelf life. Some builders will tell =you they've used Urac that's 5 yrs old. I won't use any that's over 1 =yr. I store it in the beer fridge in the basement. I get a quart in =the fall and throw out the rest in the spring. (I don't build in the = tom Subject: Re: Glue Tim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just starting, I =recommend a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get =proficient, a faster setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it =doesn't give you much leeway if something doesn't work well, like =binding cord problems. You can remember all the words that are not =polite in public when your binder is having problems, the glue is =sticking your fingers together, and the binding cord is glued to your =fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and the telephone is ringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and =why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim Tim, quart in the fall and throw out the rest in the spring. (I don't build = tom ----- Original Message ----- Steven = Sent: Thursday, November 29, = AMSubject: Re: Glue Tim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just starting, I = a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get proficient, a = setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't give you = leeway if something doesn't work well, like binding cord problems. You = remember all the words that are not polite in public when your binder = having problems, the glue is sticking your fingers together, and the = cord is glued to your fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and the = telephone is ringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glue = to glue blanks and why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep = my mind. Tim from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Nov 29 07:42:54 2001 fATDgrH07004 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:42:54 - Subject: Fly Fisherman Magazine and bamboo I was going through old FFM mags the other day while sorting out what I had so I could put a list together to sell my collection. I was really surprised at how many ads there are back in the 60s-70s from the old bamboo rod companies and how many different pictures there are on the covers ofbamboo rods. It was really cool to see these things as we do not see this in today's fly fishing mags, everything graphite now (:-(. There were some neat articles as well on bamboo rods and the one that was mentioned earlier onthe list from 1974 was neat to read again. If I wasn't possibly moving to Alaska and had more room where I am at I would not even think of getting rid of these because of how awesome it was to see the old ads and articles. It is too bad there is not more of this today on bamboo rods. The There were ads from Leonard, Powell, Howells, Orvis, T&T, Philipson and others that are really neat. I am sure whoever gets this collection will be pleased if they are a bamboo nut just to see the old articles and ads.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Nov 29 08:44:38 2001 fATEibH08485 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:44:37 - (authenticated) Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:44:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Steve-o, I use 1 5/8" tubes for both 2 and 3 piece rods. Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 29 08:48:54 2001 fATEmsH08841 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:48:54 -0600 helo=default) id 169SUe-0002nN-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:48:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Usually 2". M-D A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from harms1@pa.net Thu Nov 29 08:56:20 2001 fATEuKH09393 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:56:20 - Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Steve, I like to use the 1 5/8" tubes for all my rods. There is plenty of roominside for all 2-piece rods, plus bag. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Aluminum tubes A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jteft@frontiernet.net Thu Nov 29 08:58:36 2001 fATEwZH09715 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:58:35 - 0000 Subject: Re: Glue I'am a relatively new builder and am experimenting with TiteBond II. I =have used it in limited experiments at full strength and 50/50 mixture =of tapwater and glue, building nodeless. I have had scarf failures with =the 50/50 mixture and none with the straight mixture. I have a noded =blank glued up with the 50/50 mixture but it is not finished. I would say if the rods last 20 years I'am successful (I'll be 81 at =that point). So Tom, if you come across one of my rods then you can have =your ferrules back and know what the gluing agent was.Jim T Subject: Re: Glue Tim,Resorcinol is dark in color, an effect some people like. It will show =you if you have to make improvements on planing though, i.e glue lines. =I use urac from Nelson. I learned from Garrison's book, its what I =always have used, never thought about changing. I have not found a =reason to. Its easy to work with, clean up is no hassle, its cheap. =Only downfall is relativley short shelf life. Some builders will tell =you they've used Urac that's 5 yrs old. I won't use any that's over 1 =yr. I store it in the beer fridge in the basement. I get a quart in =the fall and throw out the rest in the spring. (I don't build in the = tom Subject: Re: Glue Tim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just starting, I =recommend a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get =proficient, a faster setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it =doesn't give you much leeway if something doesn't work well, like =binding cord problems. You can remember all the words that are not =polite in public when your binder is having problems, the glue is =sticking your fingers together, and the binding cord is glued to your =fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and the telephone is ringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and =why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim I'am a relatively new builder and am experimenting = TiteBond II. I have used it in limited experiments at full strength and = mixture of tapwater and glue, building nodeless. I have had scarf = the 50/50 mixture and none with the straight mixture. I have a noded = up with the 50/50 mixture but it is not finished. I would say if the rods last 20 years I'am = 81 at that point). So Tom, if you come across one of my rods then you = your ferrules back and know what the gluing agent was.Jim T ----- Original Message ----- and Tom Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, November 29, = AMSubject: Re: Glue Tim,Resorcinol is dark in color, an effect some people = Garrison's book, its what I always have used, never thought about = tom ----- Original Message ----- Weiss Sent: Thursday, November 29, = AMSubject: Re: Glue Tim, recommend a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get = a faster setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't = much leeway if something doesn't work well, like binding cord = can remember all the words that are not polite in public when your = having problems, the glue is sticking your fingers together, and the = cord is glued to your fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and = telephone is ringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glue = uses to glue blanks and why, I'm trying to decide what to get and = changing my mind. Tim from harms1@pa.net Thu Nov 29 09:03:03 2001 fATF32H10080 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:03:02 - Subject: Re: Glue Marty, Interesting. I went the other way-- from the Titebond to the Urac. But onlybecause of the straightening process after glue-up. I had a few rods showsmall areas of delamination when I wasn't hyper-vigilant about the heat.The extremely narrow margin of error just seemed to be too critical for meto be confident that all my joints were good. But I think that Titebond itself is great in all other respects. Have youbeen able to work out any special safeguards in straightening? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue I used to use Urac but recently switched to Titebond II Extend waterbased (white glue)wood glue (not poly). Urac had a shelf life of only 8months or so and even then I noticed some glue failure when trimmingtips. Also I wasn't nuts about the toxicity of the stuff. With TitebondII extend I could dive right into the stuff and the joints (so far) areextremely strong. Only drawback is it is not as heat proof as uracalthough it is heat resistant. I heat straighten using less heat thenwith urac.Best, Marty Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing mymind. Thanks, Tim from lblove@omniglobal.net Thu Nov 29 09:41:30 2001 fATFfPH12082 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:41:25 -0600 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes fATFfUH12089 and where do you get 2" tube and how thick ofa wall does the tube come in? any preferred alloy?(a/r o/c comment) just thought I would ask,Brad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/29/01 at 8:41 AM Jojo DeLancier wrote: Usually 2". M-D From: "Steve Trauthwein" A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 29 09:54:29 2001 fATFsSH12934 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:54:29 - 0000 Subject: Re: Glue --------------A5CF6A8F0B0B5F3F2E627090 JimI started using Titebond II about the time it first hit the market. Iwas a little dubious about its suitability, so I called the TechnicalDepartment and had a long talk with the chemist who formulated theproduct. One thing he told me is that Titebond II cannot be thinnedmore than 5% without losing adhesion. He suggested that even the 5%thinning was not really good practice..I have glued dozens of rods with this and never had a delaminationfailure. I find that I can straighten rods using TitebondII if I don'tget in a hurry. High temperature , quick heating= glue failure,scorching, and delaminations later. Low temperature and slow heating =an excellent result. Ralph P.S. It is kind of like the analogy I made a month or so ago. Think ofit as steak. You can eat one that is charred on the outside and stillkicking inside. Or you can have an evenly well cooked steak. You callit. Jim Tefft wrote: I'am a relatively new builder and am experimenting with TiteBond II. Ihave used it in limited experiments at full strength and 50/50 mixtureof tapwater and glue, building nodeless. I have had scarf failureswith the 50/50 mixture and none with the straight mixture. I have anoded blank glued up with the 50/50 mixture but it is not finished. Iwould say if the rods last 20 years I'am successful (I'll be 81 atthat point). So Tom, if you come across one of my rods then you canhave your ferrules back and know what the gluing agent was.Jim T ----- Original Message -----From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 7:54 AMSubject: Re: GlueTim,Resorcinol is dark in color, an effect some peoplelike. It will show you if you have to make improvements onplaning though, i.e glue lines. I use urac from Nelson. Ilearned from Garrison's book, its what I always have used,never thought about changing. I have not found a reason to.Its easy to work with, clean up is no hassle, its cheap.Only downfall is relativley short shelf life. Some builderswill tell you they've used Urac that's 5 yrs old. I won'tuse any that's over 1 yr. I store it in the beer fridge inthe basement. I get a quart in the fall and throw out therest in the spring. (I don't build in the summer). tom ----- Original Message -----From: Steven A. Weiss Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 1:21 AMSubject: Re: GlueTim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you arejust starting, I recommend a glue with a long opentime, like epon. When you get proficient, a fastersetting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but itdoesn't give you much leeway if something doesn'twork well, like binding cord problems. You canremember all the words that are not polite inpublic when your binder is having problems, theglue is sticking your fingers together, and thebinding cord is glued to your fingers and to thewheels of the binder, and the telephone isringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glueeveryone uses to glue blanks and why,I'm trying to decide what to get andkeep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium --------------A5CF6A8F0B0B5F3F2E627090 Jim I was a little dubious about its suitability, so I called the TechnicalDepartment and had a long talk with the chemist who formulated the One thing he told me is that Titebond II cannot be thinned more than 5% not really good practice.. delamination = an excellent result.Ralph You call it. Jim Tefft wrote: I'am a relatively newbuilder and am experimenting with TiteBond II. I have used it in limitedexperiments at full strength and 50/50 mixture of tapwater and glue,buildingnodeless. I have had scarf failures with the 50/50 mixture and none withthe straight mixture. I have a noded blank glued up with the 50/50 mixture last 20 years I'am successful (I'll be 81 at that point). So Tom, if youcome across one of my rods then you can have your ferrules back and knowwhat the gluing agent was.Jim T ----- Original Message ----- From:Jilland Tom Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, November 29, 20017:54 AM Subject: Re: Glue an effect some people like. It will show you if you have to makeimprovements from Garrison's book, its what I always have used, never thought about ----- Original Message ----- From:Steven A.Weiss Sent: Thursday, November 29, 20011:21 AM Subject: Re: Glue I recommend a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get proficient,a faster setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't giveyou much leeway if something doesn't work well, like binding cord problems.You can remember all the words that are not polite in public when yourbinder is having problems, the glue is sticking your fingers together,and the binding cord is glued to your fingers and to the wheels of the Iwas wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and why, I'mtrying to decide what to get and keep changing my Tim --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium --------------A5CF6A8F0B0B5F3F2E627090-- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 29 09:56:56 2001 fATFutH13203 helo=default) id 169TYT-0005DT-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:56:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Depends upon which rod I'm making but either the Goldenwitch Classic RodTube, or from REC. The GW tube is about .070 thick, and the REC is about.040. The GW is extruded, and the REC is drawn. The GW also makes a fineweapon, should such a thing ever be needed. ;o) The alloy on both is a 6000 series, but I don't know which one. More thanlikely 6063, I'm guessing, since that is a commonly extruded/drawn alloy. M-D and where do you get 2" tube and how thick ofa wall does the tube come in? any preferred alloy?(a/r o/c comment) just thought I would ask,Brad from harms1@pa.net Thu Nov 29 10:07:14 2001 fATG7DH13820 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:07:13 - "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Glue Jim, Diluting glue seems to me to be a very dangerous practice. Diluted gluegives you, perhaps, a more workable viscosity, but this is obtained only ata terrible price. I don't know what actual mechanical tests might showabout reduced strength, but I think that ANY sort of reduction in thestrength of a glue bond would be unacceptable. I have no chemistry, but common sense tells me that introducing moleculesofwater must, inevitably, have the effect of separating the molecules of glue from one another--thus, greatly reducing the amount of actual glue thatremains in a joint. When this diluted solution dries, the evaporated watermolecules will leave behind only (now) sparcely-populated molecules of glueto do all the work--and, given their distance from one another, these willbe far, far less able to cross-link. Hence, I believe that thesheer-strength of such a bond will have been enormously compromised. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue I'am a relatively new builder and am experimenting with TiteBond II. I haveused it in limited experiments at full strength and 50/50 mixture oftapwater and glue, building nodeless. I have had scarf failures with the50/50 mixture and none with the straight mixture. I have a noded blank gluedup with the 50/50 mixture but it is not finished. I would say if the rods last 20 years I'am successful (I'll be 81 at thatpoint). So Tom, if you come across one of my rods then you can have yourferrules back and know what the gluing agent was.Jim T----- Original Message ----- From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld Subject: Re: Glue Tim,Resorcinol is dark in color, an effect some people like. It will show youif you have to make improvements on planing though, i.e glue lines. I useurac from Nelson. I learned from Garrison's book, its what I always haveused, never thought about changing. I have not found a reason to. Its easyto work with, clean up is no hassle, its cheap. Only downfall is relativleyshort shelf life. Some builders will tell you they've used Urac that's 5yrs old. I won't use any that's over 1 yr. I store it in the beer fridgein the basement. I get a quart in the fall and throw out the rest in thespring. (I don't build in the summer). tom----- Original Message -----From: Steven A. Weiss Subject: Re: Glue Tim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just starting, I recommenda glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get proficient, a fastersetting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't give you muchleeway if something doesn't work well, like binding cord problems. You canremember all the words that are not polite in public when your binder ishaving problems, the glue is sticking your fingers together, and the bindingcord is glued to your fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and thetelephone is ringing.Steve I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 29 10:52:08 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fATGq8H15872 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:52:08 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:52:07 -0600 Subject: RE: Glue Bill -- You didn't ask me, but....I've found that I can straighten sections gluedwith Titebond II Extend using a hair dryer instead of a heat gun. Heat gunsof course get much hotter and could easily break down the glue, but I'venever had a problem with that using the blow drier. Just a standard 1300 or1500 watt unit, usually set on hi, sometimes medium for tips. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Glue Marty, Interesting. I went the other way-- from the Titebond to the Urac. But onlybecause of the straightening process after glue-up. I had a few rods showsmall areas of delamination when I wasn't hyper-vigilant about the heat.The extremely narrow margin of error just seemed to be too critical for meto be confident that all my joints were good. But I think that Titebond itself is great in all other respects. Have youbeen able to work out any special safeguards in straightening? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue I used to use Urac but recently switched to Titebond II Extend waterbased (white glue)wood glue (not poly). Urac had a shelf life of only 8months or so and even then I noticed some glue failure when trimmingtips. Also I wasn't nuts about the toxicity of the stuff. With TitebondII extend I could dive right into the stuff and the joints (so far) areextremely strong. Only drawback is it is not as heat proof as uracalthough it is heat resistant. I heat straighten using less heat thenwith urac.Best, Marty Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing mymind. Thanks, Tim from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 29 10:56:13 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fATGuDH16206 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:56:13 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:56:12 -0600 Subject: RE: Glue Also, in case anyone is interested, I reported several weeks ago on the listabout my problems with scarf failures in nodeless rods using Titebond IIExtend. I now use a shallower angle (about 2 degrees) and have solved theproblem. I was using a 5 degree angle before -- thought I had accuratelymeasured it as shallower but I was mistaken. No really, I was. I know it'shard to believe.... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Glue Bill -- You didn't ask me, but....I've found that I can straighten sections gluedwith Titebond II Extend using a hair dryer instead of a heat gun. Heat gunsof course get much hotter and could easily break down the glue, but I'venever had a problem with that using the blow drier. Just a standard 1300 or1500 watt unit, usually set on hi, sometimes medium for tips. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Glue Marty, Interesting. I went the other way-- from the Titebond to the Urac. But onlybecause of the straightening process after glue-up. I had a few rods showsmall areas of delamination when I wasn't hyper-vigilant about the heat.The extremely narrow margin of error just seemed to be too critical for meto be confident that all my joints were good. But I think that Titebond itself is great in all other respects. Have youbeen able to work out any special safeguards in straightening? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue I used to use Urac but recently switched to Titebond II Extend waterbased (white glue)wood glue (not poly). Urac had a shelf life of only 8months or so and even then I noticed some glue failure when trimmingtips. Also I wasn't nuts about the toxicity of the stuff. With TitebondII extend I could dive right into the stuff and the joints (so far) areextremely strong. Only drawback is it is not as heat proof as uracalthough it is heat resistant. I heat straighten using less heat thenwith urac.Best, Marty Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing mymind. Thanks, Tim from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Nov 29 11:24:15 2001 fATHOEH18196 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:24:14 -0600 MAA00368; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Rodmakers discussion group Subject: Re: Straightening Strips One common desiccant is Drierite (no interest), from W.A. Hammond DrieriteCo.in Xenia, Ohio. It is 97% anhydrous calcium sulfate. We use an "indicator"type extensively in the lab that turns from blue to pink when it has absorbedit's measure of moisture. I have been told you can re-use it by heating in anoven to remove the water. So, I guess, it should be able to handle someheat.dws. Ted wrote: I wonder if the dessicant packed with electronic products would work? Haveno idea of how much heat it can absorb or withstand. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Nov 29 12:14:49 2001 fATIEiH21343 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:14:44 - fATIEhl28538 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:14:43 - Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes It really depends on the quality/design of the rodbag. If you have aheavy fabric with a flap (or worse, with a flap and a tie), 1 5/8" will betight if not impossible. Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Harry Boyd wrote: Steve-o, I use 1 5/8" tubes for both 2 and 3 piece rods. Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from CALucker@aol.com Thu Nov 29 12:15:44 2001 fATIFhH21431 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:15:43 - for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:15:35 - Subject: re: hide glue Subj: Re: Glue 11/29/01 8:34:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, harms1@pa.net writes: I haven't heard much about using hide glues recently, and I've never triedthem myself. What sort do you use? Are choices of products stillavailable, or has this part of the industry been pretty much reduced to justone glue? I use granular hide glue from Luthier's Mercantile, a guitar builder supply house. I bought the glue pot a long time ago from Garret Wade, but Stewart MacDonald (Luthier supplies) or Woodcraft all sell the same electric glue pots. You can buy liquid hide glue in a bottle, but I would not recommend it. The acoustic guitar guys tell me that the liquid hide glue has preservatives that weaken the glue and make it subject to creep. Anyone who doubts the strength of hide glue should calculate the stresseson a bridge of a steel string guitar. Take a look at a 1925 Martin strung with steel strings. Calculate the tension of those six strings combined on that little piece of Ebony hanging on the soundboard (guitar top) with all its might. That's hide glue holding the bridge on -- not screws. I have never made a vat of hide glue to drop strips in before gluing. I have never glued more than a dozen sections at a time. I simply bush the glue on to the warm blank (furnace room warm) and bind away. The initial tack ofthe hide glue makes it easy to nest the strips. Hide glue may not be toxic, but it sure stinks. You asked why people don't use hide glue for rods today, well more people probably do than you think. Especially if they are trying to replace a broken tip of a vintage rod. I think most do not use hide glue because they think they need a stronger glue. Why are people looking for tougher varnishes? Why do we need UV protection in a rod varnish? I use modern varnish (Interlux Schooner) because it is easy and I am trying to make my Pre-EPA changes (pre-1974) Man-o-War last. I use it on wraps only. Copal varnish is all we really need to keep a rod sound. Hide glue is all we really need for strength. If you are going to store your rod in the trunk of a black car in heat of a Desert August you may experience problems, but I wouldn't recommend that for any rod, or musical instrument, or anything for that matter.Cold water Casein glue is another interesting old glue that is stronger than we really need, but that is another story.Chris Lucker Subj: Re: GlueDate: 11/29/01 9:51:06 AM Pacific Standard Time In a message dated 11/29/01 8:34:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,harms1@pa.net writes: I haven't heardmuch about using hide glues recently, and I've never tried products stillavailable, or has this part of the industry been pretty much reduced tojust I use granular hide glue from Luthier's Mercantile, a guitar builder supply Stewart MacDonald (Luthier supplies) or Woodcraft all sell the same electric glue has preservatives that weaken the glue and make it subject to creep. Anyone who doubts the strength of hide glue should calculate the strings combined on that little piece of Ebony hanging on the soundboard I have never made a vat of hide glue to drop strips in before gluing. simply bush the glue on to the warm blank (furnace room warm) and bind strips. Hide glue may not be toxic, but it sure stinks. You asked why people don't use hide glue for rods today, well more and I am trying to make my Pre-EPA changes (pre-1974) Man-o-War last. the trunk of a black car in heat of a Desert August you may experienceproblems, but I wouldn't recommend that for any rod, or musical instrument,or anything for that matter.Cold water Casein glue is another interesting old glue that is strongerthan we really need, but that is another story.Chris Lucker from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Nov 29 12:50:21 2001 fATIoKH23716 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:50:21 - Subject: Re: Glue URAC has a shelf life of at least two years if you keep it in a =refrigerator at 40 degrees F. Then its good until you get "lumps" =forming. URAC has a shelf life of at least two = get "lumps" forming. from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Nov 29 13:02:17 2001 fATJ2GH24689 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:02:16 - Subject: Re: Glue More info about the URAC shelf life. I use Casco Resin which I'm told =is the same thing as URAC. A company technician told me that UF resin =is "working" from the day it is made and has a shelf life of about 3 =months at 70 degrees. The shelf life doubles for every 10 degree drop, =so shelf life is 6 months at 60 degrees, 1 year at 50 degrees, and =2years at 40 degrees. Even then the tech said that only if it was =getting lumpy should I worry about it. I just glued up a rod with =resin that I got last fall. I have never had a glue failure with Casco =resin (over 50 rods). More info about the URAC shelf = told me that UF resin is "working" from the day it is made and has a = degree drop, so shelf life is 6 months at 60 degrees, 1 year at 50 = resin (over 50 rods). from dryfly@erols.com Thu Nov 29 13:12:04 2001 fATJC4H25706 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:12:04 - ([208.58.203.44] helo=erols.com) id 169WbK-0005N0-00; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:12:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue Although I do keep URAC in a refrigerator, I agree with Tom Ausfeld,URAC is cheap enough to buy a new quart every six months and trashanything older than 6 months. I'd rather not run the risk of anyproblems. Bob from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 29 13:14:54 2001 fATJEqH26016 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:14:52 - , Subject: Re: Glue That's about right. The liquid stuff I had that I like very much by the way was fine during Winter but in the last month or so we've been into the 90s F, the glue is about 18 months old so this would have been it's 2nd Summer.I knew this would happen but I was interested in just how long it does last out of the fridge. Put it in the fridge. Tony At 02:00 PM 11/29/01 -0500, Ted wrote: More info about the URAC shelf life. I use Casco Resin which I'm told is the same thing as URAC. A company technician told me that UF resin is "working" from the day it is made and has a shelf life of about 3 months at 70 degrees. The shelf life doubles for every 10 degree drop, so shelf life is 6 months at 60 degrees, 1 year at 50 degrees, and 2years at 40 degrees. Even then the tech said that only if it was getting lumpy should I worry about it. I just glued up a rod with resin that I got last fall. I have never had a glue failure with Casco resin (over 50 rods). /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 29 13:31:37 2001 fATJVYH27268 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:31:34 - Subject: Re: Glue There is an easy way to test glue and it should be done if you haven't used it for a couple of months once it's a bit long in the tooth and that's to test it to destruction using two pieces of wood about 1" x 1/2" and 6" long. Glue them end for end for about 1-2 inches at either end, wait for the glue to cure fully, stick one peice ina vise then hit the other with a hammer and do a post mortiem on the results. If you have something like50% wood failure on both bits of wood the glue is fine. If it failed along the glue line drop the rest of the glue in the rubbish bin. Tony At 02:07 PM 11/29/01 -0800, Robert S Williams wrote: Although I do keep URAC in a refrigerator, I agree with Tom Ausfeld,URAC is cheap enough to buy a new quart every six months and trashanything older than 6 months. I'd rather not run the risk of anyproblems. Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Thu Nov 29 14:25:46 2001 fATKPkH02272 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:25:46 - Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:25:41 PST Subject: Re: Glue With URAC, if the working time is a problem, then youcan always mix a batch for the tips, and later asecond batch for the butt. I can't think of why allsections must be glued up on a per batch basis. My intentions are to glue up all sections with a batchand that is what I do, but if a belt breaks, or I needa lot of time to straighten a section for some reason,and I think the glue in the cup is getting a littlestiff, I'll just throw it out and mix up a fresh batch My binder is not very refined and I like to spend alittle extra time making sure everything goes smoothlyand I get the sections as straight as possible beforeit sets up. The last group of six tips and four buttsthat I glued took no less than three batches of URAC.No panic or hurry. I keep it in a refrigerator nowand use it for about six months after purchase, and bythen I'm getting low anyway. I like the fact that this glue burns up a little moremoisture in it's curing process, at least that is myunderstanding of URAC. stuff? I havn't requested a spec. sheet on URAC so Idon't honestly know what specific dangers I amsubjecting myself to other then I know I shouldn't useit as a steak sauce. The idea of wearing latex gloves while trying to tieknots at the ends of a section as glue starts gettingtacky is intriguing, but I'd like to take a pass onthat unless someone who is a doctor or chemist tellsme I'm going to get cancer of the hands. Any advice? Thanks. Chris. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Nov 29 14:42:51 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fATKgoH06302 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:42:50 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:42:50 -0600 Subject: RE: Glue Can't answer your question about toxicity, but I have used URAC a couple oftimes and it seemed to begin to dissolve my latex gloves, making themunworkably sticky. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Glue With URAC, if the working time is a problem, then youcan always mix a batch for the tips, and later asecond batch for the butt. I can't think of why allsections must be glued up on a per batch basis. My intentions are to glue up all sections with a batchand that is what I do, but if a belt breaks, or I needa lot of time to straighten a section for some reason,and I think the glue in the cup is getting a littlestiff, I'll just throw it out and mix up a fresh batch My binder is not very refined and I like to spend alittle extra time making sure everything goes smoothlyand I get the sections as straight as possible beforeit sets up. The last group of six tips and four buttsthat I glued took no less than three batches of URAC.No panic or hurry. I keep it in a refrigerator nowand use it for about six months after purchase, and bythen I'm getting low anyway. I like the fact that this glue burns up a little moremoisture in it's curing process, at least that is myunderstanding of URAC. stuff? I havn't requested a spec. sheet on URAC so Idon't honestly know what specific dangers I amsubjecting myself to other then I know I shouldn't useit as a steak sauce. The idea of wearing latex gloves while trying to tieknots at the ends of a section as glue starts gettingtacky is intriguing, but I'd like to take a pass onthat unless someone who is a doctor or chemist tellsme I'm going to get cancer of the hands. Any advice? Thanks. Chris. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from lblan@provide.net Thu Nov 29 14:55:17 2001 fATKtGH09262 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:55:16 - with HTTP id 5779128 for ; Thu, 29 Nov2001 15:55:11 -0500 Subject: URAC 185 Here is one MSDS I found for URAC. http://www.cytec.com/msds/CR/TPSDWEB/pdf/mE/EN/00000/00143EN.pdf Larry Blan from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Nov 29 14:56:41 2001 fATKuaH09650 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:56:40 - for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:51:27 - 1129155127; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:51:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue What is the working time for Urac? In a message dated Thu, 29 Nov 2001 8:02:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Jill and Tom Ausfeld" writes: Tim,Resorcinol is dark in color, an effect some people like.It will show you if you have to make improvements on planing though, i.e glue lines. I use urac from Nelson. I learned from Garrison's book, its what I always have used, never thought about changing. I have not founda reason to. Its easy to work with, clean up is no hassle, its cheap. Only downfall is relativley short shelf life. Some builders will tell you they've used Urac that's 5 yrs old. I won't use any that's over 1 yr. I store it in the beer fridge in the basement. I get a quart in the fall and throw out the rest in the spring. (I don't build in the summer). tom ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven A. Weiss 1:21 AMSubject: Re: Glue Tim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just starting, I recommend a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you get proficient, a faster setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't give you much leeway if something doesn't work well, like binding cord problems. You can remember all the words that are not polite in public when your binder is having problems, the glue is sticking your fingers together, and the binding cord is glued to your fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and the telephone is ringing.SteveI was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind.Thanks, Tim from caneman@clnk.com Thu Nov 29 15:04:56 2001 fATL4tH11855 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:04:55 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Listserv Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Glue I don't have any trouble with the gloves. What I use don't come from amedical supply house, rather they come from an auto parts store. They areSpontex Vinyl gloves, Low Powder, are relatively thin, although not as thinas surgical latex gloves. They are made for Food prep, Health and beautyindustry (ever smell those beauty shop chemicals... if they won't melt thesegloves, a little Formaldehyde isn't going to), arts and crafts. If youcan't find them locally, Spontex is in Columbia TN... don't have a phonenumber for them, but it shouldn't be hard to get off the net or fromDirectory Assistance. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Glue Can't answer your question about toxicity, but I have used URAC a couple of times and it seemed to begin to dissolve my latex gloves, making themunworkably sticky. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Glue With URAC, if the working time is a problem, then youcan always mix a batch for the tips, and later asecond batch for the butt. I can't think of why allsections must be glued up on a per batch basis. My intentions are to glue up all sections with a batchand that is what I do, but if a belt breaks, or I needa lot of time to straighten a section for some reason,and I think the glue in the cup is getting a littlestiff, I'll just throw it out and mix up a fresh batch My binder is not very refined and I like to spend alittle extra time making sure everything goes smoothlyand I get the sections as straight as possible beforeit sets up. The last group of six tips and four buttsthat I glued took no less than three batches of URAC.No panic or hurry. I keep it in a refrigerator nowand use it for about six months after purchase, and bythen I'm getting low anyway. I like the fact that this glue burns up a little moremoisture in it's curing process, at least that is myunderstanding of URAC. stuff? I havn't requested a spec. sheet on URAC so Idon't honestly know what specific dangers I amsubjecting myself to other then I know I shouldn't useit as a steak sauce. The idea of wearing latex gloves while trying to tieknots at the ends of a section as glue starts gettingtacky is intriguing, but I'd like to take a pass onthat unless someone who is a doctor or chemist tellsme I'm going to get cancer of the hands. Any advice?Thanks. Chris. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Thu Nov 29 15:24:51 2001 fATLOpH16538 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:24:51 - Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:21:03 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:24:40 -0700 Subject: Glue FILETIME=[BF2D00C0:01C1791B] fATLOpH16542 My trick with latex gloves is to put on two or three pairs at a time. Whenthey get too bad I just peel them off as needed. This can get you out of asticky situation fast. Jim Harris from JNL123141@msn.com Thu Nov 29 15:31:28 2001 fATLVMH18031 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:31:22 - Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:31:08 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Glue FILETIME=[28DBF200:01C1791D] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Glue My trick with latex gloves is to put on two or three pairs at a time. Wh=en they get too bad I just peel them off as needed. This can get you out=of a sticky situation fast. Jim Harris Greatcommon s= w= of a sticky situation fast.JimHarris from irish-george@chartermi.net Thu Nov 29 17:13:24 2001 fATNDOH09122 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:13:24 - Subject: Re: Fly Fisherman Magazine and bamboo I know how you feel about the issues of FFM...I had every issue they everpublished and didn't even have time to sell them before my move...I had tochuck them but I did save about six issues from the time period youmentioned so I'd have some samples of the great ads from bamboo rodcompanies. George ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fly Fisherman Magazine and bamboo I was going through old FFM mags the other day while sorting out what I had so I could put a list together to sell my collection. I was really surprised at how many ads there are back in the 60s-70s from the old bamboo rodcompanies and how many different pictures there are on the covers of bamboo rods. It was really cool to see these things as we do not see this intoday's fly fishing mags, everything graphite now (:-(. There were some neat articles as well on bamboo rods and the one that was mentioned earlier on the list from 1974 was neat to read again. If I wasn't possibly moving to Alaska and had more room where I am at I would not even think of getting rid ofthese because of how awesome it was to see the old ads and articles. It is too bad there is not more of this today on bamboo rods. The There were ads from Leonard, Powell, Howells, Orvis, T&T, Philipson andothers that are really neat. I am sure whoever gets this collection will be pleased if they are a bamboo nut just to see the old articles and ads.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from channer@frontier.net Thu Nov 29 17:28:17 2001 fATNRxH11069 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:28:04 - for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:39:26 - Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Bob;That's easy! Just cut the flap and the G@# D&*^% ties off!John rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: It really depends on the quality/design of the rodbag. If you have aheavy fabric with a flap (or worse, with a flap and a tie), 1 5/8" will betight if not impossible. Regards, Bob from jbbamboo47@yahoo.com Thu Nov 29 17:29:16 2001 fATNTGH11202 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:29:16 - Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:29:15 PST Subject: re glue Used urac 185. Never had a problem. Keep it in thefridge all the time. Take it out just long enough tomix than put it right back. Glue two pieces of woodtogether with same batch as rod. Both have stayed together. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from jbbamboo47@yahoo.com Thu Nov 29 17:35:46 2001 fATNZkH11730 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:35:46 - Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:35:45 PST Subject: glue Used urac 185. Kept in fridge well over a year. Noproblems. Glued 2 pieces of wood together with samebatch as rod, both wood and rod stayed together __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Nov 29 17:56:09 2001 fATNu3H12703 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:56:03 - Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:56:49 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Glue --------------FC3252A14263CFA7BFFFC13A Guess I am the odd man out here! I used to use Urac, but switched toTitebond PU ayear ago and have had no problems so far. I do wish they would come out witha longeropen time version though.Comes in small enough batches that I always have fresh glue and it'sreadilyavailable 15 minutes away unlike Urac which is very hard to come by here inNovaScotia (or Canada for that matter!)PU is way easier to remove afterwards as well, just my 2 cents worth,Shawn Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and why, I'mtryingto decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim --------------FC3252A14263CFA7BFFFC13A switchedto Titebond PU a year ago and have had no problems so far. I do wish theywould come out with a longer open time version though. fresh glue and it's readily available 15 minutes away unlike Urac whichis very hard to come by here in Nova Scotia (or Canada for that matter!) my 2 cents worth, Tim Stoltz wrote: Iwas wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and why, I'mtrying to decide what to get and keep changing my Tim --------------FC3252A14263CFA7BFFFC13A-- from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Nov 29 18:16:20 2001 fAU0GJH13331 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:16:19 - Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:16:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Glue FILETIME=[36AE2FD0:01C17934] Nyatex. You can take all the time in the world to glue and straighten,let it sit for 24 hours, then heat set.If you take off the binding string before heat setting it, you don't =have to sand it off. Jeff Nyatex. You can take all the time in = glue and straighten, = set.If you take off the binding string = setting it, you don't have to sand it off. Jeff from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Thu Nov 29 18:19:50 2001 fAU0JnH13544 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:19:49 - fAU0JaY06149; Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes The Hardy flap also contains a ferrule plug pocket. If you cut it off, Ihear tell an irate English person stands in your yard and yells variousPythonesque insults in your general direction. =:0 Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, channer wrote: Bob;That's easy! Just cut the flap and the G@# D&*^% ties off!John rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: It really depends on the quality/design of the rodbag. If you have aheavy fabric with a flap (or worse, with a flap and a tie), 1 5/8" will betight if not impossible. Regards, Bob from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 29 19:02:42 2001 fAU12gH14718 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:02:42 - id 169ZEh-0001jk-03; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:00:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue Epon. I don't have to hurry. I use Titebond II for splicing when I buildnodeless. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com stoltz10@home.com wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks and why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing my mind. Thanks, Tim from dnorl@qwest.net Thu Nov 29 19:36:08 2001 fAU1a2H15606 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:36:02 - 0000 (63.228.45.8) Subject: Re: Glue The thing I like about Epon is that I can keep tinkering with it till =it is straight before it sets up. I rarely need to do any heat =straighteningDave--- --Original Message-----From: Ralph Moon Subject: Re: Glue I started using Titebond II about the time it first hit the market. =I was a little dubious about its suitability, so I called the Technical =Department and had a long talk with the chemist who formulated the =product. One thing he told me is that Titebond II cannot be thinned =more than 5% without losing adhesion. He suggested that even the 5% = I have glued dozens of rods with this and never had a delamination =failure. I find that I can straighten rods using TitebondII if I don't = scorching, and delaminations later. Low temperature and slow heating = P.S. It is kind of like the analogy I made a month or so ago. =Think of it as steak. You can eat one that is charred on the outside =and still kicking inside. Or you can have an evenly well cooked steak. = I'am a relatively new builder and am experimenting with TiteBond =II. I have used it in limited experiments at full strength and 50/50 =mixture of tapwater and glue, building nodeless. I have had scarf =failures with the 50/50 mixture and none with the straight mixture. I =have a noded blank glued up with the 50/50 mixture but it is not =finished. I would say if the rods last 20 years I'am successful (I'll be =81 at that point). So Tom, if you come across one of my rods then you = ----- Original Message -----From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld Subject: Re: GlueTim,Resorcinol is dark in color, an effect some people =like. It will show you if you have to make improvements on planing =though, i.e glue lines. I use urac from Nelson. I learned from =Garrison's book, its what I always have used, never thought about =changing. I have not found a reason to. Its easy to work with, clean up =is no hassle, its cheap. Only downfall is relativley short shelf life. =Some builders will tell you they've used Urac that's 5 yrs old. I won't =use any that's over 1 yr. I store it in the beer fridge in the =basement. I get a quart in the fall and throw out the rest in the = ----- Original Message -----From: Steven A. Weiss Subject: Re: GlueTim,They will all work satisfactorily. If you are just =starting, I recommend a glue with a long open time, like epon. When you =get proficient, a faster setting glue will be OK. I like resorcinol, but =it doesn't give you much leeway if something doesn't work well, like =binding cord problems. You can remember all the words that are not =polite in public when your binder is having problems, the glue is =sticking your fingers together, and the binding cord is glued to your =fingers and to the wheels of the binder, and the telephone is = I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to =glue blanks and why, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing =my mind. Thanks, Tim is = keep tinkering with it till it is straight before it sets up. I rarely = do any heat straighteningDave -----Original = jteft@frontiernet.net = rodmakers <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= GlueJim I started using Titebond II about = so I called the Technical Department and had a long talk with the = glued dozens of rods with this and never had a delamination = find that I can straighten rods using TitebondII if I don't get in a = I'am a relatively new builder and am = TiteBond II. I have used it in limited experiments at full = 50/50 mixture of tapwater and glue, building nodeless. I have = failures with the 50/50 mixture and none with the straight = have a noded blank glued up with the 50/50 mixture but it is not = years I'am successful (I'll be 81 at that point). So Tom, if you = across one of my rods then you can have your ferrules back and = ----- Original Message =----- Jill and Tom =Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, = 2001 7:54 AM dark in color, an effect some people like. It will show you = have to make improvements on planing though, i.e glue = use urac from Nelson. I learned from Garrison's book, its = always have used, never thought about changing. I have not = ----- Original Message =----- Steven A. Weiss Sent: Thursday, = 29, 2001 1:21 AM are just starting, I recommend a glue with a long open = like epon. When you get proficient, a faster setting = be OK. I like resorcinol, but it doesn't give you much = something doesn't work well, like binding cord problems. = remember all the words that are not polite in public = binder is having problems, the glue is sticking your = together, and the binding cord is glued to your fingers = I was wondering what = everyone uses to glue blanks and why, I'm trying to = =Tim= from channer@frontier.net Thu Nov 29 19:46:08 2001 fAU1k5H16250 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:46:06 - for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:57:41 - Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Bob;Guess I'll just have to take my chances, I never have had much use forflaps and there ought to be a federal law against strings on rod bags john rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: The Hardy flap also contains a ferrule plug pocket. If you cut it off, Ihear tell an irate English person stands in your yard and yells variousPythonesque insults in your general direction. =:0 Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, channer wrote: Bob;That's easy! Just cut the flap and the G@# D&*^% ties off!John rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: It really depends on the quality/design of the rodbag. If you have aheavy fabric with a flap (or worse, with a flap and a tie), 1 5/8" will betight if not impossible. Regards, Bob from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Nov 29 20:03:26 2001 fAU23PH17023 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:03:25 - v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.572178 secs); 30 Nov 200102:03:23 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes I like 1 1/2" if you can find it. Especially on smaller rods 7' or less. 15/8" on the larger ones with fatter grips. Marty Steve Trauthwein wrote: A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Nov 29 20:10:22 2001 fAU2AMH17453 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:10:22 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.836308 secs); 30 Nov 200102:10:17 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Glue Hi Bill, Yea, I get it as straight as possible while wet. If need be (and therealways is) I heat very slowly and work slowly bare handed. I probably heat toonly 150 degrees at most. Marty WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Marty, Interesting. I went the other way-- from the Titebond to the Urac. But onlybecause of the straightening process after glue-up. I had a few rods showsmall areas of delamination when I wasn't hyper-vigilant about the heat.The extremely narrow margin of error just seemed to be too critical formeto be confident that all my joints were good. But I think that Titebond itself is great in all other respects. Have youbeen able to work out any special safeguards in straightening? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Marty D. aka "none" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 6:14 AMSubject: Re: Glue I used to use Urac but recently switched to Titebond II Extend waterbased (white glue)wood glue (not poly). Urac had a shelf life of only 8months or so and even then I noticed some glue failure when trimmingtips. Also I wasn't nuts about the toxicity of the stuff. With TitebondII extend I could dive right into the stuff and the joints (so far) areextremely strong. Only drawback is it is not as heat proof as uracalthough it is heat resistant. I heat straighten using less heat thenwith urac.Best, Marty Tim Stoltz wrote: I was wondering what kind of glue everyone uses to glue blanks andwhy, I'm trying to decide what to get and keep changing mymind. Thanks, Tim from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Nov 29 20:19:37 2001 fAU2JVH17952 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:19:36 - (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 1.787618 secs); 30 Nov 200102:19:26 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Glue --------------097F69498A1229A16D35FF0B Keep in mind however that the Formaldahide (spelling?) in the glue is apowerful carsinigen(spelling ?once again). I would only keep it in afridge that had nothing else but maybe some beer (Carona). Marty Ted wrote: URAC has a shelf life of at least two years if you keep it in arefrigerator at 40 degrees F. Then its good until you get "lumps"forming. --------------097F69498A1229A16D35FF0B Keep in mind however that the Formaldahide (spelling?) in the glue is a a fridge that had nothing else but maybe some beer (Carona). MartyTed wrote: URAChas a shelf life of at least two years if you keep it in a refrigerator forming. --------------097F69498A1229A16D35FF0B-- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 29 20:39:16 2001 fAU2dFH19036 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:39:15 -0600 helo=default) id 169da5-0006k9-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:39:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue Latex gloves are virtually worthless when using any solvating organicchemicals, as most will either degrade them, or permeate them. 4 mil.nitrile gloves are the only thing I would recommend, and even then you mayget some degradation with extended use of the same pair.I read the MSDS on the UF, and the same precautions apply to it as withepoxies: don't wear it, don't eat it, and don't breath it. Simple enough.Prolonged, willful violation of any of the three will eventually result in asystemic sensitization. M-D Can't answer your question about toxicity, but I have used URAC a couple of times and it seemed to begin to dissolve my latex gloves, making themunworkably sticky. Barry SNIP stuff? I havn't requested a spec. sheet on URAC so Idon't honestly know what specific dangers I amsubjecting myself to other then I know I shouldn't useit as a steak sauce. The idea of wearing latex gloves while trying to tieknots at the ends of a section as glue starts gettingtacky is intriguing, but I'd like to take a pass onthat unless someone who is a doctor or chemist tellsme I'm going to get cancer of the hands. Any advice?Thanks. Chris. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 29 20:45:24 2001 fAU2jMH19599 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:45:23 - Subject: Re: Glue I read in possibly Wooden Boat that formaldehyde has been taken down a few pegs in the carcinogen scheme of things and it's now only considered dangerous if not handled properly like don't eat it or eat while using it and don't sniff it kind of thing. Tony. At 09:15 PM 11/29/01 -0500, Marty D. aka \"none wrote: Keep in mind however that the Formaldahide (spelling?) in the glue is a powerful carsinigen(spelling ?once again). I would only keep it in a fridge that had nothing else but maybe some beer (Carona). Marty Ted wrote: URAC has a shelf life of at least two years if you keep it in a refrigerator at 40 degrees F. Then its good until you get "lumps"forming. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Nov 29 20:49:25 2001 fAU2nNH20061 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:49:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue When I was epoxing on a daily basis I used to put barrier cream on my hands and use gloves as well. The idea being a tear in the glove wasn't as bad as if there was no barrier cream which made the glue a lot easier to remove in exactly the same way you use soapy water that is allowed to dry on a camp fire pot so when you wash the pot the smoky residue from the fire comes of easily. Tony At 08:29 PM 11/29/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Latex gloves are virtually worthless when using any solvating organicchemicals, as most will either degrade them, or permeate them. 4 mil.nitrile gloves are the only thing I would recommend, and even then you mayget some degradation with extended use of the same pair.I read the MSDS on the UF, and the same precautions apply to it as withepoxies: don't wear it, don't eat it, and don't breath it. Simple enough.Prolonged, willful violation of any of the three will eventually result in asystemic sensitization. M-D From: "Kling, Barry W." Can't answer your question about toxicity, but I have used URAC a couple of times and it seemed to begin to dissolve my latex gloves, making themunworkably sticky. Barry SNIP stuff? I havn't requested a spec. sheet on URAC so Idon't honestly know what specific dangers I amsubjecting myself to other then I know I shouldn't useit as a steak sauce. The idea of wearing latex gloves while trying to tieknots at the ends of a section as glue starts gettingtacky is intriguing, but I'd like to take a pass onthat unless someone who is a doctor or chemist tellsme I'm going to get cancer of the hands. Any advice?Thanks. Chris. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Thu Nov 29 20:50:39 2001 fAU2odH20244 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:50:39 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: Glue Did you ever get a latex glove caught in the binding cord? FUN! not!Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 29 21:09:18 2001 fAU39IH21596 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:09:18 -0600 helo=default) id 169e3B-0004bp-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:09:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes You son of a silly person! Your mother was a hamster and your father smeltof elderberries! (Need I continue?) M-D The Hardy flap also contains a ferrule plug pocket. If you cut it off, Ihear tell an irate English person stands in your yard and yells variousPythonesque insults in your general direction. =:0 Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, channer wrote: Bob;That's easy! Just cut the flap and the G@# D&*^% ties off!John rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: It really depends on the quality/design of the rodbag. If you have aheavy fabric with a flap (or worse, with a flap and a tie), 1 5/8" will be tight if not impossible. Regards, Bob from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 29 21:13:16 2001 fAU3DGH22033 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:13:16 -0600 helo=default) id 169e71-0001Ph-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:13:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue A good, common sense approach. M-D When I was epoxing on a daily basis I used to put barrier cream on my hands and use gloves as well. The idea being a tear in the glove wasn't as bad as if there was no barrier cream which made the glue a lot easier to remove in exactly the same way you use soapy water that is allowed to dry on a campfire pot so when you wash the pot the smoky residue from the fire comesofeasily. Tony from jojo@ipa.net Thu Nov 29 21:15:46 2001 fAU3FkH22399 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:15:46 -0600 helo=default) id 169e9R-0004Dk-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:15:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue Same here. M-D The thing I like about Epon is that I can keep tinkering with it till it isstraight before it sets up. I rarely need to do any heat straighteningDave from stoltz10@home.com Thu Nov 29 21:41:19 2001 fAU3fJH23707 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:41:19 - femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:41:15 -0800 Subject: Re: URAC 185 from reading the hazard information, URAC sounds kind of scary from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Nov 29 21:51:33 2001 fAU3pXH24223 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:51:33 - fAU3pVY13462 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:51:31 -0600 Subject: Boxelder Burl Took the burl up to the Hardwood Specialists placeyesterday. They said they would gladly place it inthe Kiln and dry it for me but would not guaranteethe results.Some Burl will dry real good and some will not.They were not sure about the Boxelder Burl. Theyshowed me some Boxelder that they had dried andsawed into boards. It was real pretty but saidthat the burl has no end grain and did not knowwhat it would do. The red in the Boxelder he saidwas a virus.He suggested I wrap a piece in a paper towel andplace in a microwave for about five minuets on lowsetting. Take it our and let it cool. Keeprepeating this for about 10 times and bring it upto him to check the moisture content. He checkedwhat I had there and all the lights on the meterlit up. The stuff is wet. I opted to not have itput in the kiln. Will cut it up and stack it up todry.I would try one piece in the Microwave if I had anold one to set outside.Years ago I burned a load of Boxelder and thestink was real bad, I would hate to use Mom'sMicrowave and not be able to use it for foodagain. It might also lead to a divorce. That wouldbe hard to take after 50 years.One good thing came out of this. I found some woodthat has beautiful grain. Had never heard of itbefore. It is called Kentucky Coffee Tree. Made upthree inserts from it and will go back up there inthe morning and get what he had left. Is thereanother name for this tree that anyone knowsabout.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 00:05:25 2001 fAU65OH27705 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 00:05:24 -0600 helo=default) id 169gnb-0003G0-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:05:23 -0500 Subject: Re: hide glue If you want a dramatic demonstration of the strength of hide glue, sandblasta piece of glass, pour on some hide glue, and stay away from it when theglue begins to dry and harden. The glue pieces will literally rip chunks ofglass off the main piece, making big noise in the process, and sendingshards of glue and glass flying in all directions. M-D In a message dated 11/29/01 8:34:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,harms1@pa.netwrites: I haven't heard much about using hide glues recently, and I've never triedthem myself. What sort do you use? Are choices of products stillavailable, or has this part of the industry been pretty much reduced to justone glue? I use granular hide glue from Luthier's Mercantile, a guitar builder supplyhouse. I bought the glue pot a long time ago from Garret Wade, but StewartMacDonald (Luthier supplies) or Woodcraft all sell the same electric gluepots. You can buy liquid hide glue in a bottle, but I would not recommendit. The acoustic guitar guys tell me that the liquid hide glue haspreservatives that weaken the glue and make it subject to creep.Anyone who doubts the strength of hide glue should calculate the stressesona bridge of a steel string guitar. Take a look at a 1925 Martin strung withsteel strings. Calculate the tension of those six strings combined on thatlittle piece of Ebony hanging on the soundboard (guitar top) with all itsmight. That's hide glue holding the bridge on -- not screws. I have never made a vat of hide glue to drop strips in before gluing. Ihave never glued more than a dozen sections at a time. I simply bush theglue on to the warm blank (furnace room warm) and bind away. The initialtack of the hide glue makes it easy to nest the strips. Hide glue may not be toxic, but it sure stinks. You asked why people don't use hide glue for rods today, well more peopleprobably do than you think. Especially if they are trying to replace abroken tip of a vintage rod. I think most do not use hide glue because theythink they need a stronger glue. Why are people looking for toughervarnishes? Why do we need UV protection in a rod varnish? I use modernvarnish (Interlux Schooner) because it is easy and I am trying to make myPre-EPA changes (pre-1974) Man-o-War last. I use it on wraps only.Copal varnish is all we really need to keep a rod sound. Hide glue is allwe really need for strength. If you are going to store your rod in thetrunk of a black car in heat of a Desert August you may experienceproblems,but I wouldn't recommend that for any rod, or musical instrument, oranything for that matter.Cold water Casein glue is another interesting old glue that is stronger thanwe really need, but that is another story.Chris Lucker from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Nov 30 02:51:38 2001 fAU8pbH00495 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:51:37 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 00:51:20 -0800 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:51:20 GMT Subject: Ferrule Glues FILETIME=[2EB16D90:01C1797C] Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much of an experimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces of cane with a simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was to pullthem apart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) and myself pulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as I could come up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tube not roughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing time with the inteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr couldnt get either one of these to budge 3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- a slight slip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worth when the cane came out an 1/8" 4 Devcon 5 min, sleeve roughed up. No slippage, BUT!! to test a theory I have heard about and prevoiusly wondered about. The effect of freezing for 24 hrs in a 0* freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 oz steel hammer(not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of an unheated cargo compartment on an airplane....Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutal treatment... 5 Standard ferrule cement(Gudebrod) Pulled much easier than the ferrule- tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin. Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was the frozen Devcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apert though. All of the other methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances. The lowtemp of the Gudebrod would let go in a hotcar type of situation(not involving a Dodge 440 six pack). I think that the ferrule-tite would be better but it still was much softer at 170* or so. The Golfsmith was not subjected to the 'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persitant(10-12 yrs now) rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5min Devcon. Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playing lawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE AND REPRESENTTHE EXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETE DOLT IN THE PROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS TESTED ANDCAN IN NO WAY BE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNERCONVERSATION WHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER AND YOUNEED TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOUR BROTHER IN LAWDOESN'T BIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULES THATHAVE BEEN APPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED FOR REPAIR. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 30 05:01:15 2001 fAUB1CH01842 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 05:01:12 -0600 fAUB18Z75677 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:01:09 +1100 Subject: Re: Glue I have used Epon and with all the usual qualifications, have found it good. BUT ISN'T ANYONE GOING TO PUT IN A WORD FOR POLYURETHANE GLUE ? I have been using one of two PU glues now for several rods, and I can'tfault the stuff; good working time, sticks like shit to a blanket, easyenough to clean up , responds in a predictable way to application of heat,easy to strip off the string, sands well. It may be in a hundred years, or twenty, that it isn't doing its job, butthere is no reason at this point to assume that will be the case. It's very, very good glue to use, and produces blanks that are stiff andtrue. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Nov 30 05:22:09 2001 fAUBM3H02182 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 05:22:07 -0600 fAUBLt277221; Subject: Re: URAC 185 If you read the hazard information, about the only safe thing to swallow isspit, and even that is probably highly questionable! I don't believe thatyou are allowed to breathe anthing at all! Peter from "Marty D. aka \"none" Fri Nov 30 05:27:18 2001 fAUBRHH02379 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 05:27:17 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.427791 secs); 30 Nov 200111:15:44 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Glue Great stuff , but everytime I go to use it the stuff has thickened in the tube.Marty Peter McKean wrote: I have used Epon and with all the usual qualifications, have found it good. BUT ISN'T ANYONE GOING TO PUT IN A WORD FOR POLYURETHANE GLUE ? I have been using one of two PU glues now for several rods, and I can'tfault the stuff; good working time, sticks like shit to a blanket, easyenough to clean up , responds in a predictable way to application of heat,easy to strip off the string, sands well. It may be in a hundred years, or twenty, that it isn't doing its job, butthere is no reason at this point to assume that will be the case. It's very, very good glue to use, and produces blanks that are stiff andtrue. Peter from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 30 06:55:07 2001 fAUCt7H03394 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:55:07 -0600 Subject: Sad day/ Beatles non rodmaking delete if of no interest rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I woke up this morning to the news of George Harrison's death; a real sad day on the list will miss his contributions to music and society. I know my son was greatly influenced by him and the rest of the Beatles when he was exposedto them by me and my wife when he was very young. I think in some way that is why Adam has done what he has done musically. He will be greatly missed. Sorry about wasting some bandwith here but I am sad today.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 30 07:31:56 2001 fAUDVoH04153 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:31:51 -0600 Subject: PU Glue and what I use I have made 5 or 6 rods for myself that are glued with Gorilla Glue. I cansee no disadvantage to using it except that it is messy. The sticks are verystraight after a lot of use. You can straighten with heat. There is nomixing needed. I think the curing process may even suck some of the water from the shaft. My Driggs was glued with it, and I fish the snot out of it.However, I have no idea how long it will stay so good. Will it break downover time? I do not know. I can tell you that I cleaned up the in andoutfeed tubes on my 4 string binder yesterday, and this glue (have not usedin months) is a real pain to chip off. The chunks of it that came off wereflexible and tough along their length, BUT they were rather brittle, and Icould easily break them in half at any point with a snap. I do not know whatthat means in practical applications. It is just a fresh observation.I use the Borden brand URAC equivilent, because I don't mind measuring andneed to justify my purchase of the scale. I have also used Epon, DapWeldwood, and TB II for shafts. The Urac is not as messy as the epoxy, andit can tolerate more heat to straighten than the TB II or the Weldwood. Iuse the URAC because it is pleasant to use, and Degere and Kusse andseveralother long time makers have recommended it after they have used it foryearswith no failures.I am hoping to try Resorcinol soon when I start some projects for myself. Ijust have not used it yet because the purple glue line issue scars me, and Ihave not had the chance to build much for myself lately.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Glue I have used Epon and with all the usual qualifications, have found it good. BUT ISN'T ANYONE GOING TO PUT IN A WORD FOR POLYURETHANE GLUE ? I have been using one of two PU glues now for several rods, and I can'tfault the stuff; good working time, sticks like shit to a blanket, easyenough to clean up , responds in a predictable way to application of heat,easy to strip off the string, sands well. It may be in a hundred years, or twenty, that it isn't doing its job, butthere is no reason at this point to assume that will be the case. It's very, very good glue to use, and produces blanks that are stiff andtrue. Peter from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Nov 30 07:36:29 2001 fAUDaTH04386 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:36:29 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 169nq4-0004P1-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:36:24 -0500 Subject: Block Plane What's the difference between a Stanley G12 020 and a Stanley 9 1/2?Ed What's the difference between aStanley = a Stanley 9 1/2?Ed from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Nov 30 07:44:56 2001 fAUDitH04744 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:44:55 -0600 IAA13727; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... FYI,I received my (weekly, it seems) Sierra Outdoors catalog yesterday andtheyhave Scientific Anglers silk line on sale, ~50% off. They also have DT and WF"Bamboo" lines, all ~50% off.Online they are www.SierraTradingPost.comNo interest (outside cane), dws. from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Nov 30 07:48:51 2001 fAUDmoH05086 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:48:51 -0600 id ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:42:22 -0500 id XJNZTZJ7; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:42:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl Speaking of burls, where do all of you get them. I was out walking withmy wife (I know, I know, have to keep her happy some of the time) andsaw a maple tree that had been cut down. There was a huge "bump" forlack of any better words on the trunk. Could I grab a chainsaw and cutthat out? Would you think that was a burl? Tony Spezio wrote: Took the burl up to the Hardwood Specialists placeyesterday. They said they would gladly place it inthe Kiln and dry it for me but would not guaranteethe results.Some Burl will dry real good and some will not.They were not sure about the Boxelder Burl. Theyshowed me some Boxelder that they had dried andsawed into boards. It was real pretty but saidthat the burl has no end grain and did not knowwhat it would do. The red in the Boxelder he saidwas a virus.He suggested I wrap a piece in a paper towel andplace in a microwave for about five minuets on lowsetting. Take it our and let it cool. Keeprepeating this for about 10 times and bring it upto him to check the moisture content. He checkedwhat I had there and all the lights on the meterlit up. The stuff is wet. I opted to not have itput in the kiln. Will cut it up and stack it up todry.I would try one piece in the Microwave if I had anold one to set outside.Years ago I burned a load of Boxelder and thestink was real bad, I would hate to use Mom'sMicrowave and not be able to use it for foodagain. It might also lead to a divorce. That wouldbe hard to take after 50 years.One good thing came out of this. I found some woodthat has beautiful grain. Had never heard of itbefore. It is called Kentucky Coffee Tree. Made upthree inserts from it and will go back up there inthe morning and get what he had left. Is thereanother name for this tree that anyone knowsabout.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Nov 30 08:05:48 2001 Received: frommailsorter- 105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105- storefull-144.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id ETAtAhQIaJQshglXBwIlCKmnRVDVO3XkRgIVAMVbnBzq+5eIJlD2o9L0HAhvcXrB 's message of Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:45:34 -0500 jerryy@webtv.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Italked with Mark at Woodstabilizing Specialists, Inc. and he suggested puttingthe real wet burl wood under a fan at 80 degrees for five hours then anothersix hours at 120 degrees. Used a cardbard box with a small elec ceramic diskheater w/fan. It worked fine. He would like wood at 10% before stabilizing.Tried turning some green wood on the wood lathe but it seems to turn betterafter it is dried somewhat. Didn't lose any pieces and it stopped any molding.Regards, Jerry Young > from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 30 08:20:22 2001 fAUEKLH06254 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 From: "WILLIAM HARMS" References: Subject: Re: Glue Date: Fri, MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 harms1@pa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN CanEpon be used without the heat-curing step, or does the heat only speed upthe process? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:05PM Subject: Re: Glue Same here. M-D From: Dave Norling The thing I like about Epon is that I can keep tinkering with it till it is straight before it sets up. I rarely need to do any heat straighteningDave from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Nov 30 08:36:53 2001 fAUEaqH06877 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:36:52 -0600 GAA05208; GAA01068; fAUEasM09886; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:36:48 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Sad day/ Beatles non rodmaking delete if of no interest very sad day indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Sad day/ Beatles non rodmaking delete if of no interest I woke up this morning to the news of George Harrison's death; a real sadday on the list will miss his contributions to music and society. I know my sonwas greatly influenced by him and the rest of the Beatles when he was exposedto them by me and my wife when he was very young. I think in some way that is why Adam has done what he has done musically. He will be greatly missed. Sorry about wasting some bandwith here but I am sad today.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 30 08:50:25 2001 fAUEoPH07484 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:50:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue Chris, I was thinking that the stresses on a guitar bridge would be strictlydownward, in column (ie., compression, due to the tension of tuned strings).But, perhaps these strings, when PLAYED by the musician, would indeedcausesheer stresses on the bridge. Anyhow, you main point would seem to be thathide glue holds up in a fly rod, and that's what matters to me. As to the "debunking" business, I was alluding to our common assumption(whether correct or not) that, for purposes of creating a strong bond inBAMBOO, nearly all our modern products are superior to the hide glues .That assumption contends (again, whether correctly or not) that, because ofthe material itself, it is more difficult to obtain a good glue joint inbamboo than in any of the common wood products. And, further, that withthesmall glue surfaces and high stresses placed upon them (in a fly rod),nothing works as well as our modern synthetic products. Now, if these assumptions just aren't true, I think it would be of greatvalue to this list (for example) if we were all given a little primer on"the truth." This matters to me, because all the modern glues have somedrawbacks, either in ease of use or toxicity. Hide glue, as you describeyour experience with it, however, seems only to be limited by its inabilityto withstand severe conditions of heat and/or humidity. I, for one, couldlive with that. silent bunch! Apart from you, I haven't heard about even one of them. Iwish they would speak out. Thanks again, Chris. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue In a message dated 11/29/2001 5:02:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, harms1@pa.net writes: are totally different from the flexing loads of a fly rod. Actually, I think the guitar bridge is the best example. Creep is theproblem with bamboo flyrods. As you cast forward and back the strips aretrying to stretch and compress, which of course they resist, so creep, orsliding on the faces of the strips is an issue. There is a heck of a lotmore force on the bridge of a guitar than on a bamboo strip.The faces glues on many places on a guitar is much like the surface area at the tip section of a rod.Hide glue is fine when it comes to heat straightening. You just don't need so much heat.Humidity is not an issue if you have the rod varnished or oiled. I really don't think anyone would be debunking a myth if it was declared that hide glue is good to use. There are quite a few builders using it now. Besides, Fine Woodworking seems to do an article every six years or socomparing hide glue to the modern glues, and granulated hide glue comes out just fine each time. Anyone who doubts the strength of hide glue, or its close cousin -- caseinglue-- must think that everyone's rods fell apart on each fishing trip before the War. Chris Lucker from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 30 09:03:59 2001 fAUF3vH08231 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:03:57 -0600 Subject: Re: PU Glue and what I use Bob, A short time ago, one or two fellows on the list mentioned that PU gluetends to turn to powder. Specifically, I recall reading that when ahollow-built rod, glued with PU was opened up (long after it was built), thecured glue within had turned to powder. If that is true, I wonder what the implications might be for those of us whohave been using PU to mount ferrules. I like the bonding power of PU, but filling any minute gaps that may be present. But if PU tends to turn topowder, then this gap-filling business would seem to be bogus. Anybody happen to know anything about this? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: PU Glue and what I use I have made 5 or 6 rods for myself that are glued with Gorilla Glue. I cansee no disadvantage to using it except that it is messy. The sticks are very straight after a lot of use. You can straighten with heat. There is nomixing needed. I think the curing process may even suck some of the water from the shaft. My Driggs was glued with it, and I fish the snot out of it. However, I have no idea how long it will stay so good. Will it break downover time? I do not know. I can tell you that I cleaned up the in andoutfeed tubes on my 4 string binder yesterday, and this glue (have not used in months) is a real pain to chip off. The chunks of it that came off wereflexible and tough along their length, BUT they were rather brittle, and Icould easily break them in half at any point with a snap. I do not know what that means in practical applications. It is just a fresh observation.I use the Borden brand URAC equivilent, because I don't mind measuring andneed to justify my purchase of the scale. I have also used Epon, DapWeldwood, and TB II for shafts. The Urac is not as messy as the epoxy, andit can tolerate more heat to straighten than the TB II or the Weldwood. Iuse the URAC because it is pleasant to use, and Degere and Kusse and several other long time makers have recommended it after they have used it for years with no failures.I am hoping to try Resorcinol soon when I start some projects for myself. I just have not used it yet because the purple glue line issue scars me, and I have not had the chance to build much for myself lately.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 6:01 AM Subject: Re: Glue I have used Epon and with all the usual qualifications, have found it good. BUT ISN'T ANYONE GOING TO PUT IN A WORD FOR POLYURETHANE GLUE ? I have been using one of two PU glues now for several rods, and I can'tfault the stuff; good working time, sticks like shit to a blanket, easyenough to clean up , responds in a predictable way to application of heat,easy to strip off the string, sands well. It may be in a hundred years, or twenty, that it isn't doing its job, butthere is no reason at this point to assume that will be the case. It's very, very good glue to use, and produces blanks that are stiff andtrue. Peter from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Nov 30 09:05:35 2001 fAUF5YH08417 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:05:34 -0600 HAA25747; HAA16277; fAUF5QM25008; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:05:21 -0800 Subject: RE: Glue the strings on a guitar are constantly trying to rip the bridge off the topof the guitar that's why we luthiers have been using hide glue for hundredsof years, nothing works as good or is reversible. It's strength is prettyimpressive, takes 300 lbs per square inch to pull apart. It's the onlyreversible glue there is. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Glue Chris, I was thinking that the stresses on a guitar bridge would be strictlydownward, in column (ie., compression, due to the tension of tuned strings).But, perhaps these strings, when PLAYED by the musician, would indeedcausesheer stresses on the bridge. Anyhow, you main point would seem to be thathide glue holds up in a fly rod, and that's what matters to me. As to the "debunking" business, I was alluding to our common assumption(whether correct or not) that, for purposes of creating a strong bond inBAMBOO, nearly all our modern products are superior to the hide glues .That assumption contends (again, whether correctly or not) that, because ofthe material itself, it is more difficult to obtain a good glue joint inbamboo than in any of the common wood products. And, further, that withthesmall glue surfaces and high stresses placed upon them (in a fly rod),nothing works as well as our modern synthetic products. Now, if these assumptions just aren't true, I think it would be of greatvalue to this list (for example) if we were all given a little primer on"the truth." This matters to me, because all the modern glues have somedrawbacks, either in ease of use or toxicity. Hide glue, as you describeyour experience with it, however, seems only to be limited by its inabilityto withstand severe conditions of heat and/or humidity. I, for one, couldlive with that. silent bunch! Apart from you, I haven't heard about even one of them. Iwish they would speak out. Thanks again, Chris. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue In a message dated 11/29/2001 5:02:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, harms1@pa.net writes: are totally different from the flexing loads of a fly rod. Actually, I think the guitar bridge is the best example. Creep is theproblem with bamboo flyrods. As you cast forward and back the strips aretrying to stretch and compress, which of course they resist, so creep, orsliding on the faces of the strips is an issue. There is a heck of a lotmore force on the bridge of a guitar than on a bamboo strip.The faces glues on many places on a guitar is much like the surface area at the tip section of a rod.Hide glue is fine when it comes to heat straightening. You just don't need so much heat.Humidity is not an issue if you have the rod varnished or oiled. I really don't think anyone would be debunking a myth if it was declared that hide glue is good to use. There are quite a few builders using it now. Besides, Fine Woodworking seems to do an article every six years or socomparing hide glue to the modern glues, and granulated hide glue comes out just fine each time. Anyone who doubts the strength of hide glue, or its close cousin -- caseinglue-- must think that everyone's rods fell apart on each fishing trip before the War. Chris Lucker from Dkenney94@cs.com Fri Nov 30 09:12:41 2001 fAUFCeH09171 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:12:40 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:12:30 - Subject: P.U. Glue It should be noted that P.U. glue isn't any better at gap filling than any other glue. The stuff that foams up has no real strength. Don't be fooled by this hype. It should be noted thatP.U. glue isn't any better at gap filling than any other glue. The stuff thatfoams up has no real strength. Don't be fooled by thishype. from beadman@mac.com Fri Nov 30 09:13:37 2001 fAUFDaH09305 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:13:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue At 9:49 AM -0500 on 11/30/01, WILLIAM HARMS wrote about Re: Glue silent bunch! Apart from you, I haven't heard about even one of them. Iwish they would speak out. This just may be a case of quite a few using hide glue but not wanting anyone to know that they are still using something so "old-fashioned" when today's technology has "clearly superior" products...after all, polysyllabic names MUST be better, right? and, rearranging your comments... Hide glue, as you describeyour experience with it, however, seems only to be limited by its inabilityto withstand severe conditions of heat and/or humidity. Someone commented in the last couple of weeks about waxing the rod providing a much superior waterproofing than varnish alone... It would be interesting if someone has some broken/scrap blanks that they could varnish completely a couple of times, weigh carefully, then soak in water for a day or two and weigh again; then compare this to a blank that has had only a single coat of varnish and one or two coats of wax applied. Claude from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 09:17:39 2001 fAUFHcH09968 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:17:38 -0600 helo=default) id 169pPw-0005Ta-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:17:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue The heat-curing not only speeds up the process of curing, from 7 days to 4hr., but dramatically improves the lap shear strength of the bond. Does thismatter? Who knows? M-D Can Epon be used without the heat-curing step, or does the heat only speedup the process? cheers, Bill from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 30 09:22:15 2001 fAUFMFH10350 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:22:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue Sorta like gettin' yer tit caught'na wringer? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue Did you ever get a latex glove caught in the binding cord? FUN! not!Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 09:23:39 2001 fAUFNcH10579 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:23:39 -0600 helo=default) id 169pVp-00065a-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:23:38 -0500 Subject: Re: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... David VanBurgel told me of this the other night. I could find the plasticlines on-line, but not the silk. Perhaps they'll have it posted by now. M-D FYI,I received my (weekly, it seems) Sierra Outdoors catalog yesterday and they have Scientific Anglers silk line on sale, ~50% off. They also have DT and WF "Bamboo" lines, all ~50% off.Online they are www.SierraTradingPost.comNo interest (outside cane), dws. from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Nov 30 09:34:22 2001 fAUFYLH11410 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:34:22 -0600 KAA23066; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... The silk lines are listed (and shown in a leather case) in the paper catalog. Jojo DeLancier wrote: David VanBurgel told me of this the other night. I could find the plasticlines on-line, but not the silk. Perhaps they'll have it posted by now. M-D From: FYI,I received my (weekly, it seems) Sierra Outdoors catalog yesterday and they have Scientific Anglers silk line on sale, ~50% off. They also have DT and WF "Bamboo" lines, all ~50% off.Online they are www.SierraTradingPost.comNo interest (outside cane), dws. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 09:41:42 2001 fAUFfgH12056 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:41:42 -0600 helo=default) id 169pn8-0007cy-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:41:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue I believe this may be the rodmaking equivalent. M-D Sorta like gettin' yer tit caught'na wringer? cheers, Bill From: "Ralph Moon" Did you ever get a latex glove caught in the binding cord? FUN! not!Ralph from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Nov 30 09:46:47 2001 fAUFkkH12444 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:46:46 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:46:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue FILETIME=[2DC79D70:01C179B6] Does this apply to 828 as well as 826 using 3140 catalyst? Discussion from a year or two ago indicated that 828 didnt' require heat treating, and I haven't done so. No problems, but it's early days yet. I've tried to analyze the data on the epon website, but I'm a chemical illiterate (except for the various compounds that floated around in the early 70s. [:)] bill Hoy At 09:03 AM 11/30/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: The heat-curing not only speeds up the process of curing, from 7 days to 4hr., but dramatically improves the lap shear strength of the bond. Does thismatter? Who knows? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Can Epon be used without the heat-curing step, or does the heat onlyspeedup the process? cheers, Bill from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 30 09:51:48 2001 fAUFplH12946 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:51:47 -0600 Subject: Re: P.U. Glue Ok. Another useless assumption of mine goes down the crapper! The moreofthose I can get rid of, the better. Now I'm working on the (rather common) assumption that our modernadhesivesare superior to hide glue. So far, I've learned that, if you use hide glue,you should try not to boil your rod in water afterward. I think I can livewith that advice. Otherwise, I have heard no arguments against hide glue. Help me out on this one, fellows. Maybe we all have something to learn. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: P.U. Glue It should be noted that P.U. glue isn't any better at gap filling than anyother glue. The stuff that foams up has no real strength. Don't be fooled by this hype. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 10:01:48 2001 fAUG1lH13607 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:01:47 -0600 helo=default) id 169q6j-0000pJ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:01:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue It's not so much that it requires it, but it doesn't hurt. It seems to methat virtually any of the adhesives in prevalent use are sufficiently strongenough to provide the bonding required for our needs. Having said that, thePVA types of glues are the last thing I would ever consider for rodmaking,yet there are a number of people using them without bad results. M-D Does this apply to 828 as well as 826 using 3140 catalyst? Discussionfroma year or two ago indicated that 828 didnt' require heat treating, and Ihaven't done so. No problems, but it's early days yet. I've tried to analyze the data on the epon website, but I'm a chemicalilliterate (except for the various compounds that floated around in theearly 70s. [:)] bill Hoy At 09:03 AM 11/30/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: The heat-curing not only speeds up the process of curing, from 7 days to 4 hr., but dramatically improves the lap shear strength of the bond. Does this matter? Who knows? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Can Epon be used without the heat-curing step, or does the heat only speed up the process? cheers, Bill from stoltz10@home.com Fri Nov 30 10:05:41 2001 fAUG5fH13942 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:05:41 -0600 femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:05:35 -0800 Subject: Re: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... On the web site it is item#70923 and they are sold out. from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Fri Nov 30 10:30:10 2001 fAUGU9H15397 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:30:09 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:26:20 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:29:57 -0700 Subject: Glue FILETIME=[BD324C80:01C179BB] fAUGU9H15400 Guys My gluing experience has been primarily with URAC and PU. I used URAC for along time and may go back to it. I just recently however, used up my first bottle of PU/Gorilla glue. I really like many things about PU but I plan to trysomething else next Heres why. When I get a glue line, PU, with it's foamingaction will fill this gap with micro bubbles. I have to use magnification to seethem, but they are there. I'm very concerned about this 'foam' down insidemy rods filling the micro spaces between splines. I've had no PU failures yet. I just don't trust it for the long haul and that's enough reason for me tomove on. I plan on trying Titebond II Extend next. The simplicity of a strong,one part glue with a shelf life appeals to me.My .02 Jim Harris from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 30 11:19:47 2001 fAUHJjH18022 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:19:46 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: Glue Bill My wife says no way!!!!!Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/SymposiumSorta like gettin' yer tit caught'na wringer? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue Did you ever get a latex glove caught in the binding cord? FUN! not! Ralph from homes-sold@home.com Fri Nov 30 11:27:22 2001 fAUHRGH18629 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:27:21 -0600 femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:27:16 -0800 Subject: Re: P.U. Glue Bill,I agree with you not to boil the rod in water unless you want to take itapart. Otherwise it should do a fine job. I would also recommend not tostore the rod under water :>)DonHere are the limitation for liquid hide glue form the Tite Bond Web Site:www.titebond.com "Limitations Titebond Liquid Hide Glue is not intended for exterior use orwhere moisture is likely. For exterior applications use Titebond II PremiumWood Glue. Freezing may not affect the function of the product but maycauseit to thicken. Agitation should restore product to original form. It isrecommended that Titebond Liquid Hide Glue not be stored for extendedperiods at temperatures lower than 70ŸF.KEEP from FREEZING."----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: P.U. Glue Ok. Another useless assumption of mine goes down the crapper! The moreofthose I can get rid of, the better. Now I'm working on the (rather common) assumption that our modernadhesivesare superior to hide glue. So far, I've learned that, if you use hide glue,you should try not to boil your rod in water afterward. I think I can livewith that advice. Otherwise, I have heard no arguments against hide glue. Help me out on this one, fellows. Maybe we all have something to learn. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: P.U. Glue It should be noted that P.U. glue isn't any better at gap filling than anyother glue. The stuff that foams up has no real strength. Don't be fooled by this hype. from bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com Fri Nov 30 12:02:48 2001 fAUI2kH20592 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:02:46 -0600 Nov 2001 10:02:42 PST Subject: Re: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... Hi There,I don't think that you will find any Silk Lines for sale at dirtcheap prices at Sierra. Sci Anglers doesn't make silk lines -they are a division of 3M - a company that specializes inplastics - and the desc. of the lines for sale at Sierra do saybamboo, although I think the copy was written by someone whodoesn't like to fish because they don't like to drown worms.Sorry for the run on sentence,Joe --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: David VanBurgel told me of this the other night. I could findthe plasticlines on-line, but not the silk. Perhaps they'll have itposted by now. M-D =====Joe MulveyNashua, NH -- USA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from stoltz10@home.com Fri Nov 30 12:31:19 2001 fAUIVIH21672 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:31:19 -0600 femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:31:18 -0800 Subject: Re: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... If you go to item look up and put in #70923 the item will come up. It asilk line made in France (Thebault?) for $149.99, You can get Thebalt lineson Olaf's for $130.00 from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Nov 30 12:34:51 2001 fAUIYkH21904 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:34:46 -0600 KAA16769 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:33:17 -0800 KAA22765 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:34:39 -0800 fAUIYiM12794 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:34:44 -0800 (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:19:48 -0800 Subject: hide glue here's a great question and answer site for hide glue:http://www.player- care.com/hide_q-a.html Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from darrell@vFish.net Fri Nov 30 12:54:03 2001 fAUIs2H22633 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:54:02 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:53:57 -0600 Subject: RE: Cost of ferrules --- Super Z Ferrule Group Order forming I'm forming a group order for genuine Super Z Ferrules to be made to myspecifications specially for me. The standard specs call for .003" oversizemale for the female and I am having them made for me with a .001" oversizewhich is pretty much the industry norm. They will be unmarked as Rodon did not deliver the die stamp to Cortland(tthe patent holder) when the patent was transferred. Many rod makers complained about the .003" oversizing taking a long time tofit so this is why I'm having them made specially for me. This is a onetime special order as I am ordering approx. 100 sets. Unfortunately, TODAY is the deadline imposed by Cortland on me for thisspecial order as I must place it within the next couple hours. Please email me offlist if you are interested. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 U.S. Toll-Free Order Line (877) 452-2420 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.com Subject: Cost of ferrules (Was: Forms) My biggest pet peeve as far as components are concerned is the lack of amid quality ferrule. Most of the experimental tapers I make don't need a$50.00 nickel silver ferrule and with the multi section tapers I'm workingon now the cost of ferrules can run me $250.00 for one rod. The low costbrass ones I got a long time ago were too low quality, and didn't come inthe right sizes I was looking for. There are low, mid and high quality reel seats, cork handles, and guides. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and start making my own.Darryl Hayashida specifications specially for me. The standard specs call for .003" = will be unmarked as Rodon did not deliver the die stamp to Cortland = holder) when the patent was transferred. rod makers complained about the .003" oversizing taking a long time to = special order as I am ordering approx. 100 sets. Unfortunately, TODAY is the deadlineimposed = Cortland on me for this special order as I must place it within the next = hours. email me offlist if you are interested. Regards,Darrell LeeAnglers 452- DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 18, 2001= Cost of = ferrules (Was: Forms)My biggest pet peeve as far ascomponents = concerned is the lack of a mid quality ferrule. Most of the = tapers I make don't need a $50.00 nickel silver ferrule and with the = section tapers I'm working on now the cost of ferrules can run me = one rod. The low cost brass ones I got a long time ago were too low = and didn't come in the right sizes I was looking for. There = mid and high quality reel seats, cork handles, and guides. = should just bite the bullet and start making my own. Darryl = from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Nov 30 13:11:10 2001 fAUJB9H23498 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:11:09 -0600 Subject: Bent Ferrule Anyone have an easy to round out a ferrule that was stepped on? Peter from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Nov 30 13:20:46 2001 fAUJKjH24167 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:20:45 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:20:44 PST Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues AJ, Did you perform the freeze test on all? I particularly wonder if thefreezing damages the bond of all epoxies. Jerry --- Allen Thramer wrote: Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much ofan experimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces ofcane with a simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was topull them apart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) andmyself pulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as Icould come up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tubenot roughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing timewith the inteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr couldnt get either one of these to budge 3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- aslight slip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worthwhen the cane came out an 1/8" 4 Devcon 5 min, sleeve roughed up. No slippage, BUT!! to test atheory I have heard about and prevoiusly wondered about. The effect offreezing for 24 hrs in a 0* freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 ozsteel hammer(not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of anunheated cargo compartment on an airplane....Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutaltreatment... 5 Standard ferrule cement(Gudebrod) Pulled much easier than the ferrule- tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin. Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was thefrozen Devcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apert though.All of the other methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances. Thelow temp of the Gudebrod would let go in a hotcar type of situation(notinvolving a Dodge 440 six pack). I think that the ferrule-tite would be betterbut it still was much softer at 170* or so. The Golfsmith was notsubjected to the 'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persitant(10-12 yrsnow) rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5min Devcon. Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playing lawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE AND REPRESENTTHE EXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETE DOLT INTHE PROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS TESTED ANDCANIN NO WAY BE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNERCONVERSATION WHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER AND YOUNEED TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOUR BROTHER IN LAWDOESN'T BIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULES THATHAVE BEEN APPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED FORREPAIR. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Nov 30 13:27:57 2001 fAUJRqH24783 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:27:52 -0600 Subject: FW: Bent Ferrule At $35.00 a set, maybe heat and a round hole where the sun don't shine! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bent Ferrule Yeah........fit a new one !!!!!!!Sorry ,couldn't resist that one...........Paul Peter Van Schaack wrote: Anyone have an easy to round out a ferrule that was stepped on? Peter from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 13:54:32 2001 fAUJsQH26207 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:54:31 -0600 helo=default) id 169tjp-0001cT-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:54:21 -0500 Subject: Re: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... If any of you read the web page, for which Reed posted the link, regardingthe Christian Bullard lines, I believe you will see that the line offered bySierra is one and the same. This article also dealt with Streamworks, whichis an SA group that encompasses many of the companies acquired by 3M/SAacouple of years ago. It is through Streamworks that the lines were offered.I strongly suspect that these lines were, in fact, made by Thebault.Interestingly enough, I noted that the hype regarding the lines states thatthese silk lines were meant to enhance today's graphite rods. Of what willthey think next? M-D Hi There,I don't think that you will find any Silk Lines for sale at dirtcheap prices at Sierra. Sci Anglers doesn't make silk lines -they are a division of 3M - a company that specializes inplastics - and the desc. of the lines for sale at Sierra do saybamboo, although I think the copy was written by someone whodoesn't like to fish because they don't like to drown worms.Sorry for the run on sentence,Joe --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: David VanBurgel told me of this the other night. I could findthe plasticlines on-line, but not the silk. Perhaps they'll have itposted by now. M-D =====Joe MulveyNashua, NH -- USA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 13:56:01 2001 fAUJu0H26452 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:56:00 -0600 helo=default) id 169tlM-0004I8-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:55:56 -0500 Subject: Another Virus Warning Did anyone else get a post from Bruce Combest, subject line: Re: Re:Binders? The attachment attempted to self execute, same as before. M-D from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Fri Nov 30 13:58:11 2001 fAUJwAH26761 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:58:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue All,I have a rod that is over two years old that I glued with PU. This rod has never seen a rod case, has been left in the rain overnight and left outside in my beat up old van ever since it was made. It has ripped and I mean ripped more flies out of trees and bushes than I care to talk about. This rod has fallen off the roof of my van going 40mph on highway 17 in the catskills it has been stepped on (by me, oopps) and fished by children ranging in ages from 5 thru 12 years old. Now keep in mind that I live in N. Y. State were in the summer months the temps can be 90 with humidity somewhere around80% for a good week at a time and in the winter temps routinely go below 0. This will be this rods third caseless winter in that same old beat up van. I really wish I could say this rod did not take a set but as I said the summer can be hot and ever since the rod feel off the roof of the van I have not been able to pull it apart (was2pc now a 1 pc) so needless to say I have had to prop it up on a seat in the back with the reelseat on the floor and that is how it got most of the set but I guess ripping flies out of untold tree did not help the cause. All that being said I have looked this rod over with a magnifying today because of this talk about glues. I twisted it, bent it, flexed it in an obscene and grotesque manner and looked at again.And guess what? The rod is fine save for the taped up guide and the cracked agate stripper but thats to be expected at 40mph. B.T.W the reel did not survive the pavement, it had to be bent back into shape. Now, I am sure the rod surviving the fall off the roof of the van was pure luck, and my person was lucky too as folks were trying to run me and my well cared for fly rod over. All in all I don't think you have to worry about the long haul with PU glues. I almost forgot this rod has also landed a fish or two.Joseph A Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536716-493-2637 from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 14:02:47 2001 fAUK2kH27255 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:02:46 -0600 helo=default) id 169trw-0000uT-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:02:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Bent Ferrule This would seem the easy route, but if you are intent on being a *real*rodmaker you simply must make this task as difficult as possible. TakePaul's suggestion with a grain of salt. As a Brit, he is much too practical.Shame on you, Paul, for offering such simplistic advice. M-D At $35.00 a set, maybe heat and a round hole where the sun don't shine! Yeah........fit a new one !!!!!!!Sorry ,couldn't resist that one...........Paul Peter Van Schaack wrote: Anyone have an easy to round out a ferrule that was stepped on? Peter from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Nov 30 14:19:53 2001 fAUKJlH28481 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:19:47 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:19:32 - Subject: Re: Bent Ferrule I actually have done this trying to salvage a crushed ferrule - don't ask how it got crushed, it's a long story. In the long run it probably is more cost effective to buy a new ferrule, but if you absolutely have to fix this one.... Using successively larger drills - the smooth end not the cutting end - open the welt up until the male will begin to slide in. Tape a small thick piece of leather around the female to prevent teeth marks from a pliers from marking the NS. Jam in the male as far as you can, then with moderate pressure with the pliers squeeze the female around and around until the male loosens. Jam it in as far as you can, squeeze around and around untill the male loosens, etc. etc. etc. Until the male goes all the way down. At this point the ferrule will be too loose, and you will have to tighten it up with one of the various methods we discussed on this list, I use a three jaw chuck.Darryl Hayashida I actually have done this trying to salvage a crushed ferrule - don't ask how itgot crushed, it's a long story. In the long run it probably is more cost effective to buy a new ferrule, but ifyou absolutely have to fix this one.... Using successively larger drills - the smooth end not the cutting end - openthe welt up until the male will begin to slide in. Tape a small thick piece ofleather around the female to prevent teeth marks from a pliers frommarking the NS. Jam in the male as far as you can, then with moderatepressure with the pliers squeeze the female around and around until the male the male loosens, etc. etc. etc. Until the male goes all the way down. At thispoint the ferrule will be too loose, and you will have to tighten it up with oneof the various methods we discussed on this list, I use a three jawchuck.Darryl Hayashida from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Nov 30 14:29:24 2001 fAUKTNH29125 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:29:23 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Bent Ferrule Peter, M-D is right. I would suggest any of the following options:1/ Take it to a Christian Scientist or Gnostic, in the manner of S. Clements. You will learn that since matter does not exist, and the ferrule appears to be composed of matter, it does not exist, therefore it cannot be bent.2/ Any good statistician could reduce the likelihood of the ferrule being bent to the vanishing point...infinte improbability. An accountant could do this as well, but it would be illegal and more expensive.3/ Go to a machine shop that has a full range of small mandrels (not the mandrills). Starting with the smallest that fits to the end, work your way gradually through the range untill you reach the original ferrule size. The statistician can calculate the probability of the male still fitting the female. [It is assumed that only the female is deformed. That is always the assumption.] Good luck.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jojo DeLancier wrote: This would seem the easy route, but if you are intent on being a *real*rodmaker you simply must make this task as difficult as possible. TakePaul's suggestion with a grain of salt. As a Brit, he is much too practical.Shame on you, Paul, for offering such simplistic advice. M-D -- > from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Nov 30 14:40:11 2001 Received: from Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:40:05 -0800 Received: from 12.33.21.29 bylw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:40:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.33.21.29] From: "Allen Thramer" rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues Date: Fri, 30 Nov format=flowed Message-ID:X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 ajthramer@hotmail.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I didthe freeze test on the Devcon 5min only From: Jerry Madigan Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues AJ, Did you perform the freeze test on all? I particularly wonder if thefreezing damages the bond of all epoxies. Jerry --- Allen Thramer wrote: Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much ofanexperimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces ofcane witha simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was topull themapart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) andmyselfpulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as Icouldcome up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tubenotroughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing timewith theinteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr couldnt get either one of these to budge 3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- aslightslip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worthwhen thecane came out an 1/8" 4 Devcon 5 min, sleeve roughed up. No slippage, BUT!! to test atheory Ihave heard about and prevoiusly wondered about. The effect offreezing for24 hrs in a 0* freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 ozsteelhammer(not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of anunheatedcargo compartment on an airplane....Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutaltreatment... 5 Standard ferrule cement(Gudebrod) Pulled much easier than theferrule- tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin. Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was thefrozenDevcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apert though.All of theother methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances. Thelow tempof the Gudebrod would let go in a hotcar type of situation(notinvolving aDodge 440 six pack). I think that the ferrule-tite would be betterbut itstill was much softer at 170* or so. The Golfsmith was notsubjected to the'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persitant(10-12 yrsnow)rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5min Devcon. Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playinglawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE AND REPRESENTTHEEXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETE DOLT INTHEPROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS TESTED ANDCANIN NO WAYBE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNERCONVERSATIONWHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER ANDYOUNEED TO TALKABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOUR BROTHER INLAWDOESN'TBIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULES THATHAVE BEENAPPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED FORREPAIR. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from p.h.e@frisurf.no Fri Nov 30 14:51:02 2001 fAUKp1H00767 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:51:01 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:50:50 +0100(MET) Subject: Thanks Thank you Danny Twang. I have to wish DannyT a good year or so in NewZealand,good to get rid of you [;-)] Just kidding, but when Danny leaves today to NZmuch of hisrodmaking equipment is stashed away in my too-shed. My first rod is nowmuch more than a dream, and the tools I have slowly aquired is nowcomplete,thanks to what I can use of Dannys forms, binder etc. He has left me bamboo methe basic steps and kicked me in action. Again thank you Danny and have agoodtrip! Maybe nex summer I can avoid those little creeks, with sardines, youlove and go for some real fish with my own bambo rod [;-)] Pöl H. Eliassen from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Nov 30 15:02:48 2001 fAUL2lH01459 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:02:48 -0600 by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id NAA03742; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:02:35 - ETAtAhUAgUdCkgAnI1euRpy2G7A+sM8zzLMCFHozCFZh2zOLXgkF6C+v2mx8fxwd Subject: Re: silk and "bamboo" lines on sale... 13:39:21 -0600 Christian Billard was Director of International Sales when Streamworksbought out Mckenzie. He was responsible for bringing in the Thiebaltlines. Don't know if he is still with Streamworks. Regards, Jerry Young from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Nov 30 15:04:28 2001 fAUL4SH01654 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:04:28 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:04:17 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Another Virus Warning No,but I did get a strange one saying "Thanks" from some weird foreignname, "Palog Solfrid" . Didn't even try opening it!Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Did anyone else get a post from Bruce Combest, subject line: Re: Re:Binders? The attachment attempted to self execute, same as before. M-D from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 30 15:14:04 2001 fAULE3H02295 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:14:03 -0600 Subject: RE: P.U. Glue Yes, I think you are right on that Dave. Also, it makes for a hideous glueline if you knick up a node.-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Dkenney94@cs.com Subject: P.U. Glue It should be noted that P.U. glue isn't any better at gap filling than anyother glue. The stuff that foams up has no real strength. Don't be fooled bythis hype. you are right on that Dave. Also, it makes for a hideous glue line if = up a node. Dkenney94@cs.comSent: Friday, November 30, 2001 noted that P.U. glue isn't any better at gap filling than any other = stuff that foams up has no real strength. Don't be fooled by this = from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Fri Nov 30 15:39:37 2001 fAULdVH03594 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:39:36 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:30:29 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:34:29 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Glue FILETIME=[3819F9F0:01C179E6] fAULdaH03599 I can't say that any of my PU rods have faired poorly either, but I only havefive (so far) in the hands of customers. Its reassuring to know that a PUrod can take that kind of abuse. Does anyone on the list have a PU failure story? Jim Harris All in all I don't think you have to worry about the long haul with PU glues. I almost forgot this rod has also landed a fish or two.Joseph A Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com 5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536716-493-2637 from "Marty D. aka \"none" Fri Nov 30 15:46:42 2001 fAULkfH04018 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:46:41 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.393483 secs); 30 Nov 200121:46:34 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Sad day/ Beatles non rodmaking delete if of no interest As a kid growing up in the late '60s and early '70's I woke up many times oncamping trips at sunrise listening to the Beatles "Here comes the Sun" on theradio. Every time I hear it I think back. A sad day indeed. Marty Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I woke up this morning to the news of George Harrison's death; a real sadday us onthe list will miss his contributions to music and society. I know my son wasgreatly influenced by him and the rest of the Beatles when he was exposedtothem by me and my wife when he was very young. I think in some way thatiswhy Adam has done what he has done musically. He will be greatly missed.Sorry about wasting some bandwith here but I am sad today.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 30 15:57:03 2001 fAULv1H04735 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:57:02 -0600 Subject: RE: Another Virus Warning Shawn:That message was about Danny T and was from a friend of his. I did get theother messages, and they were infected. the files launched WIndows MediaPlayer and my McCaffee's nailed it.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Another Virus Warning No,but I did get a strange one saying "Thanks" from some weirdforeign name, "Palog Solfrid" . Didn't even try opening it!Shawn Jojo DeLancier wrote: Did anyone else get a post from Bruce Combest, subject line: Re: Re:Binders? The attachment attempted to self execute, same as before. M-D from rmoon@ida.net Fri Nov 30 16:12:42 2001 fAUMCgH05525 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:12:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Another Virus Warning Shawn: Pol Eliassen is a list member and a friend of Danny TwangHis message wasjust to thank ||Danny who is leaving the country for leaving all hisstuff for Pol to start building rods.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 30 16:25:40 2001 fAUMPZH06257 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:25:40 -0600 Subject: John Zimny John please contact me off list.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 30 16:45:44 2001 fAUMjhH07207 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:45:43 -0600 Subject: Re: P.U. Glue Don, My understanding is that one ought not use the prepared (liquid) hide glues Apparently the liquid form has additives in it that weaken the potentialbond. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: P.U. Glue Bill,I agree with you not to boil the rod in water unless you want to take itapart. Otherwise it should do a fine job. I would also recommend not tostore the rod under water :>)DonHere are the limitation for liquid hide glue form the Tite Bond Web Site:www.titebond.com "Limitations Titebond Liquid Hide Glue is not intended for exterior use or where moisture is likely. For exterior applications use Titebond II Premium Wood Glue. Freezing may not affect the function of the product but may cause it to thicken. Agitation should restore product to original form. It isrecommended that Titebond Liquid Hide Glue not be stored for extendedperiods at temperatures lower than 70ŸF.KEEP from FREEZING."----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Cc: Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 7:49 AMSubject: Re: P.U. Glue Ok. Another useless assumption of mine goes down the crapper! The more of those I can get rid of, the better. Now I'm working on the (rather common) assumption that our modern adhesives are superior to hide glue. So far, I've learned that, if you use hide glue, you should try not to boil your rod in water afterward. I think I can live with that advice. Otherwise, I have heard no arguments against hide glue. Help me out on this one, fellows. Maybe we all have something to learn. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 10:12 AMSubject: P.U. Glue It should be noted that P.U. glue isn't any better at gap filling than any other glue. The stuff that foams up has no real strength. Don't be fooled by this hype. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Nov 30 16:47:35 2001 fAUMlZH07421 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:47:35 -0600 Subject: REC Do you know how fun it is to get an order for over $2000,00 and you get to play with all the stuff? It is like Christmas opening a package like that. You should see all the shiny new ferrules, reelseats, guides and other goodies in this package. Now let me see did I have a list of guys who wanted this stuff. Huum it seems to slip my mind right now, but I thought I might share this with a few guys on the list. Does anyone out there remember if I was supposed to send this stuff out? LOL. The REC order came today and I just found it when I got home. I will start to sort this stuff out so I can get it to everyone. Now comes the other fun part ((;-((.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from robertgkope@home.com Fri Nov 30 17:07:46 2001 fAUN7jH08326 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:07:45 -0600 femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:07:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes I like 1 5/8", though 1 1/2" works well for light rods. I've even used 15/8" for 3-pc 2 tip rods. I think the 2" just looks too bulky for bamboorods though I've used it for most 3-pc rods. I think 1 3/4" would be ideal If anybody in the Puget Sound area is interested in making their ownaluminum rod tubes, I just stopped in at Boeing Surplus on my way home froma meeting in Olympia today and they have a cornucopia of aluminumextrusionsand tubing right now for $1.60/ lb. They have tubing in sizes from 1" to 3"o.d. in 1/4 increments in series 6061 and 5058 with wall thickness from0.022" to 0.048". It's in lengths up to about 20' and still in the shippingcrates. A lot of it is 0.035" wall thickness which is adequate for rodtubes. I picked up some 1 3/4" with 0.035" wall thickness there severalmonths ago for the same price and it worked out to about $0.50/ft. I justneed to figure out where to find, or how to make, caps. -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: Aluminum tubes A question for those of you who use aluminum tubes. What diameter doyouuse for two piece two tip rods? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 30 17:09:20 2001 fAUN9JH08500 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:09:19 -0600 Subject: RE: Glue You are not fooling anyone with that lie, you fish monger! Try a fish or 20each time you go out. Lucky for the rest of us you spend so much timeripping flies out of trees or there would be no fresh fish left in WNY.LOL,Bob -----Original Message----- Eastkoyfly@aol.com Subject: Re: Glue I almost forgot this rod has also landed a fish or two. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Nov 30 17:14:45 2001 fAUNEiH08909 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:14:45 -0600 helo=default) id 169wra-0006Wx-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:14:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Bent Ferrule Now, Darryl here is a *real* rodmaker. He knows the appropriately =difficult way to achieve the objective. You guys who are always thinking =of the easy way have a few things to learn. M-D I actually have done this trying to salvage a crushed ferrule - don't =ask how it got crushed, it's a long story. In the long run it probably is more cost effective to buy a new =ferrule, but if you absolutely have to fix this one.... Using successively larger drills - the smooth end not the cutting end =- open the welt up until the male will begin to slide in. Tape a small =thick piece of leather around the female to prevent teeth marks from a =pliers from marking the NS. Jam in the male as far as you can, then with =moderate pressure with the pliers squeeze the female around and around =until the male loosens. Jam it in as far as you can, squeeze around and =around untill the male loosens, etc. etc. etc. Until the male goes all =the way down. At this point the ferrule will be too loose, and you will =have to tighten it up with one of the various methods we discussed on =this list, I use a three jaw chuck. Now, Darryl here is a = rodmaker. He knows the appropriately difficult way to achieve the = learn. M-D I actually = trying to salvage a crushed ferrule - don't ask how it got crushed, = long story.In the long run it probably is more cost effective = new ferrule, but if you absolutely have to fix this = successively larger drills - the smooth end not the cutting end - open = welt up until the male will begin to slide in. Tape a small thick = leather around the female to prevent teeth marks from a pliers from = the NS. Jam in the male as far as you can, then with moderate pressure = the pliers squeeze the female around and around until the male = etc. etc. etc. Until the male goes all the way down. At this point the = will be too loose, and you will have to tighten it up with one of the = Hayashida from channer@frontier.net Fri Nov 30 17:25:50 2001 fAUNPeH09385 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:25:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Block Plane Ed;The main diference is that the 9 1/2 is no longer in production, the 020is the current version, some might say it is a bit shy of what the old 91/2 used to be, but it will do the job just fine.John Ed Riddle wrote: What's the difference between a Stanley G12 020 and a Stanley 9 1/2?Ed from channer@frontier.net Fri Nov 30 17:27:22 2001 fAUNRKH09549 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:27:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl Todd;It sure was, get your chainsaw out!John Todd Talsma wrote: Speaking of burls, where do all of you get them. I was out walking withmy wife (I know, I know, have to keep her happy some of the time) andsaw a maple tree that had been cut down. There was a huge "bump" forlack of any better words on the trunk. Could I grab a chainsaw and cutthat out? Would you think that was a burl? from CALucker@aol.com Fri Nov 30 17:27:27 2001 fAUNRQH09559 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:27:26 -0600 Subject: Re: P.U. Glue In a message dated 11/30/01 3:24:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,harms1@pa.net writes: My understanding is that one ought not use the prepared (liquid) hide glues Apparently the liquid form has additives in it that weaken the potentialbond. Yes, I agree. Also, use the granular hide glue, not the beads. I have never had problems myself with using the beads in my glue pot, but the guitar guys tell me the granular is stronger. Both stink, though.Chris Lucker In a message dated11/30/01 3:24:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, harms1@pa.net writes: Myunderstanding is that one ought not use the prepared (liquid) hide glues Apparently the liquid form has additives in it that weaken the potentialbond. though.Chris Lucker from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Nov 30 17:44:52 2001 fAUNipH10430 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:44:51 -0600 0000 (63.228.46.252) Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl I think it's a burl-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl Speaking of burls, where do all of you get them. I was out walking withmy wife (I know, I know, have to keep her happy some of the time) andsaw a maple tree that had been cut down. There was a huge "bump" forlack of any better words on the trunk. Could I grab a chainsaw and cutthat out? Would you think that was a burl? Tony Spezio wrote: Took the burl up to the Hardwood Specialists placeyesterday. They said they would gladly place it inthe Kiln and dry it for me but would not guaranteethe results.Some Burl will dry real good and some will not.They were not sure about the Boxelder Burl. Theyshowed me some Boxelder that they had dried andsawed into boards. It was real pretty but saidthat the burl has no end grain and did not knowwhat it would do. The red in the Boxelder he saidwas a virus.He suggested I wrap a piece in a paper towel andplace in a microwave for about five minuets on lowsetting. Take it our and let it cool. Keeprepeating this for about 10 times and bring it upto him to check the moisture content. He checkedwhat I had there and all the lights on the meterlit up. The stuff is wet. I opted to not have itput in the kiln. Will cut it up and stack it up todry.I would try one piece in the Microwave if I had anold one to set outside.Years ago I burned a load of Boxelder and thestink was real bad, I would hate to use Mom'sMicrowave and not be able to use it for foodagain. It might also lead to a divorce. That wouldbe hard to take after 50 years.One good thing came out of this. I found some woodthat has beautiful grain. Had never heard of itbefore. It is called Kentucky Coffee Tree. Made upthree inserts from it and will go back up there inthe morning and get what he had left. Is thereanother name for this tree that anyone knowsabout.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from channer@frontier.net Fri Nov 30 17:55:09 2001 fAUNt7H10824 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:55:08 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:07:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues Jerry;I can testify that freezing alone doesn't seem to bother Accraglas Gelmuch at all. I haven't purposely tapped on any of them, but I keep atleast 4 rods in my van year around and have done so for 5 or 6 years, todate, none of them have failed because of temperature changes. I haveremove ferrules glued with Accraglas, but it takes almost enough heat tomake the females come apart and the bamboo explode.john Jerry Madigan wrote: AJ, Did you perform the freeze test on all? I particularly wonder if thefreezing damages the bond of all epoxies. Jerry --- Allen Thramer wrote: Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much ofanexperimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces ofcane witha simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was topull themapart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) andmyselfpulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as Icouldcome up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tubenotroughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing timewith theinteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr couldnt get either one of these to budge 3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- aslightslip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worthwhen thecane came out an 1/8" 4 Devcon 5 min, sleeve roughed up. No slippage, BUT!! to test atheory Ihave heard about and prevoiusly wondered about. The effect offreezing for24 hrs in a 0* freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 ozsteelhammer(not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of anunheatedcargo compartment on an airplane....Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutaltreatment... 5 Standard ferrule cement(Gudebrod) Pulled much easier than theferrule- tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin. Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was thefrozenDevcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apert though.All of theother methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances. Thelow tempof the Gudebrod would let go in a hotcar type of situation(notinvolving aDodge 440 six pack). I think that the ferrule-tite would be better but itstill was much softer at 170* or so. The Golfsmith was notsubjected to the'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persitant(10-12 yrsnow)rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5min Devcon. Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playinglawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE AND REPRESENTTHEEXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETE DOLT INTHEPROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS TESTED ANDCANIN NO WAYBE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNERCONVERSATIONWHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER ANDYOUNEED TO TALKABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOUR BROTHER INLAWDOESN'TBIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULES THATHAVE BEENAPPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED FORREPAIR. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from darrell@vFish.net Fri Nov 30 18:19:24 2001 fB10JNH11478 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:19:23 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:19:22 -0600 Subject: RE: Cost of ferrules --- Super Z Ferrule Group Order forming I got the deadline extended so now Monday is the cutoff date. History of the Super Z ferrule - for more info go tohttp://www/vfish.net/superz.htm Darrell Lee-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 10:54 AM Subject: RE: Cost of ferrules --- Super Z Ferrule Group Order forming I'm forming a group order for genuine Super Z Ferrules to be made to myspecifications specially for me. The standard specs call for .003" oversizemale for the female and I am having them made for me with a .001" oversizewhich is pretty much the industry norm. They will be unmarked as Rodon did not deliver the Super Z die stamp toCortland (the patent holder) when the patent was transferred. Many rod makers complained about the .003" oversizing taking a long timeto fit so this is why I'm having them made specially for me. This is a onetime special order as I am ordering approx. 100 sets. Only 2m/1f sets. Standard length only. No truncated. Monday is the deadline imposed by Cortland on me for this special orderas I must place it within the next couple hours. Please email me offlist if you are interested. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 U.S. Toll-Free Order Line (877) 452-2420 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu DNHayashida@aol.com Subject: Cost of ferrules (Was: Forms) My biggest pet peeve as far as components are concerned is the lack of amid quality ferrule. Most of the experimental tapers I make don't need a$50.00 nickel silver ferrule and with the multi section tapers I'm workingon now the cost of ferrules can run me $250.00 for one rod. The low costbrass ones I got a long time ago were too low quality, and didn't come inthe right sizes I was looking for. There are low, mid and high quality reel seats, cork handles, andguides. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and start making my own.Darryl Hayashida date. History of the Super Z ferrule - for more = Darrell Lee LeeSent: Friday, November 30, 2001 10:54 DNHayashida@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:RE: = ferrules --- Super Z Ferrule Group Order forming specifications specially for me. The standard specs call for .003" = male for the female and I am having them made for me with a .001" = to = patent holder) when the patent was transferred. Many rod makers complained about the .003" oversizing taking = time to fit so this is why I'm having them made specially for = Only 2m/1f sets.Standard = No truncated. deadline imposed by Cortland on me for this special order as I must = within the next couple hours. interested. Regards,Darrell LeeAnglers =452- DNHayashida@aol.comSent: Sunday, November 18,2001 = Cost = ferrules (Was: Forms)My biggest pet peeve as far as = concerned is the lack of a mid quality ferrule. Most of the = tapers I make don't need a $50.00 nickel silver ferrule and with the = section tapers I'm working on now the cost of ferrules can run me = quality, and didn't come in the right sizes I was looking for. = Maybe I should just bite the bullet and start making my own. = Darryl Hayashida from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Nov 30 18:32:54 2001 fB10WrH11914 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:32:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Los Pinos Rods has tubes in 1 7/8" diameter. They have a black "krinkle" coating, are reasonably priced, and are perfect for 3/2 rods: http://www.flyrodcrafters.com/ They also have 2 1/8" tubes. --Rich from lkoeser@ceva.net Fri Nov 30 19:06:28 2001 fB116RH12597 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:06:27 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:01:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue I'll second the use of PU!!Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Glue I have used Epon and with all the usual qualifications, have found it good. BUT ISN'T ANYONE GOING TO PUT IN A WORD FOR POLYURETHANE GLUE ? I have been using one of two PU glues now for several rods, and I can'tfault the stuff; good working time, sticks like shit to a blanket, easyenough to clean up , responds in a predictable way to application of heat,easy to strip off the string, sands well. It may be in a hundred years, or twenty, that it isn't doing its job, butthere is no reason at this point to assume that will be the case. It's very, very good glue to use, and produces blanks that are stiff andtrue. Peter from homes-sold@home.com Fri Nov 30 19:10:02 2001 fB11A2H12801 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:10:02 -0600 femail46.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:10:01 -0800 Subject: Re: P.U. Glue Bill,I can live with that. Some where I seem to remember though that hide glue,glue pot kind, in case the joint failed could be re-heated and it would beok again. Personally, of all of the adhesives out there hide glue, eitherkind, would be my last choice. I've never used it because it says "Notrecommended for external use."Don----- Original Message ----- Don, My understanding is that one ought not use the prepared (liquid) hide glues from harms1@pa.net Fri Nov 30 19:34:08 2001 fB11Y7H13532 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:34:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues Accraglas is used specifically by gunsmiths for purposes of bedding riflebarrels and actions. I can't imagine that freezing temperatures would haveany effect on this product, as hunters and shooters use their guns regularlyin subfreezing temps. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues Jerry;I can testify that freezing alone doesn't seem to bother Accraglas Gelmuch at all. I haven't purposely tapped on any of them, but I keep atleast 4 rods in my van year around and have done so for 5 or 6 years, todate, none of them have failed because of temperature changes. I haveremove ferrules glued with Accraglas, but it takes almost enough heat tomake the females come apart and the bamboo explode.john Jerry Madigan wrote: AJ, Did you perform the freeze test on all? I particularly wonder if thefreezing damages the bond of all epoxies. Jerry --- Allen Thramer wrote: Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much ofanexperimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces ofcane witha simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was topull themapart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) andmyselfpulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as Icouldcome up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tubenotroughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing timewith theinteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr couldnt get either one of these to budge 3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- aslightslip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worthwhen thecane came out an 1/8" 4 Devcon 5 min, sleeve roughed up. No slippage, BUT!! to test atheory Ihave heard about and prevoiusly wondered about. The effect offreezing for24 hrs in a 0* freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 ozsteelhammer(not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of anunheatedcargo compartment on an airplane....Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutaltreatment... 5 Standard ferrule cement(Gudebrod) Pulled much easier than theferrule- tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin. Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was thefrozenDevcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apert though.All of theother methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances. Thelow tempof the Gudebrod would let go in a hotcar type of situation(notinvolving aDodge 440 six pack). I think that the ferrule-tite would be betterbut itstill was much softer at 170* or so. The Golfsmith was notsubjected to the'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persitant(10-12 yrsnow)rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5min Devcon. Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playinglawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE ANDREPRESENTTHEEXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETE DOLTINTHEPROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS TESTEDAND CANIN NO WAYBE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNERCONVERSATIONWHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER ANDYOUNEED TO TALKABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOUR BROTHER INLAWDOESN'TBIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULES THATHAVE BEENAPPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED FORREPAIR. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from lblan@provide.net Fri Nov 30 19:52:21 2001 fB11qKH14115 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:52:20 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:52:15 -0500 Subject: RE: Ferrule Glues I've bedded a fair number of rifles that see winter use with no problems. Ionce glued a stock that was in 3 pieces back together with Acraglas andAcraglas gel. I lost track of it about 10 years ago, but the owner had usedit for 12 years at that time. Acraglas gel is amazing stuff, tough but notbrittle, and the shrinkage according to Brownells is 1/10 of 1%. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 8:33 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule Glues Accraglas is used specifically by gunsmiths for purposes of bedding riflebarrels and actions. I can't imagine that freezing temperatureswould haveany effect on this product, as hunters and shooters use theirguns regularlyin subfreezing temps. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 6:57 PMSubject: Re: Ferrule Glues Jerry;I can testify that freezing alone doesn't seem to bother Accraglas Gelmuch at all. I haven't purposely tapped on any of them, but I keep atleast 4 rods in my van year around and have done so for 5 or 6 years, todate, none of them have failed because of temperature changes. I haveremove ferrules glued with Accraglas, but it takes almost enough heat tomake the females come apart and the bamboo explode.john Jerry Madigan wrote: AJ, Did you perform the freeze test on all? I particularly wonder if thefreezing damages the bond of all epoxies. Jerry --- Allen Thramer wrote: Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much ofanexperimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces ofcane witha simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was topull themapart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) andmyselfpulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as Icouldcome up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tubenotroughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing timewith theinteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr couldnt get either one of these to budge 3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- aslightslip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worthwhen thecane came out an 1/8" 4 Devcon 5 min, sleeve roughed up. No slippage, BUT!! to test atheory Ihave heard about and prevoiusly wondered about. The effect offreezing for24 hrs in a 0* freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 ozsteelhammer(not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of anunheatedcargo compartment on an airplane....Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutaltreatment... 5 Standard ferrule cement(Gudebrod) Pulled much easier than theferrule- tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin. Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was thefrozenDevcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apert though.All of theother methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances. Thelow tempof the Gudebrod would let go in a hotcar type of situation(notinvolving aDodge 440 six pack). I think that the ferrule-tite would be betterbut itstill was much softer at 170* or so. The Golfsmith was notsubjected to the'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persitant(10-12 yrsnow)rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5min Devcon. Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playinglawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE ANDREPRESENTTHEEXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETE DOLTINTHEPROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALS TESTEDAND CANIN NO WAYBE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNERCONVERSATIONWHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER ANDYOUNEED TO TALKABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOUR BROTHERIN LAWDOESN'TBIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULESTHATHAVE BEENAPPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED FORREPAIR. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Nov 30 20:10:32 2001 fB12ARH14639 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:10:32 -0600 Nov 2001 18:10:23 PST Subject: snage guide order those of you that want to participate in the groupsnageguide order and have yet to make a list need toget to me what you want. i am going to put the ordertogether this weekend. thanks! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from irish-george@chartermi.net Fri Nov 30 20:14:20 2001 fB12EKH14889 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:14:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Sad day/ Beatles non rodmaking delete if of no interest While I am much saddened by his passing:1) a book of his sheet music has my daughter practicing her flute daily (sheis trying to play it well enough to choose a piece for a solo festival)2) I cannot begin to count the hours I've enjoyed his music3) cancer can be a painful disease, I am glad he isn't suffering4) it sounds like he had a happy family life and his family was there in theendAll that said, he will be missed... from irish-george@chartermi.net Fri Nov 30 20:22:33 2001 fB12MWH15375 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:22:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl I have my doubts about the red in the boxelder being a virus unlessvirtually every tree is infected. I grew up around boxelders and have seenmany of them broken off in storms or just cut down and all of them hadsomered. While the boxelder is in the maple family, it is very weak and softand I don't find it at all pretty. I am amazed so many seem to want to useit for something other than kindling... George PS--Of course, I remember all those nasty boxelder bugs on the trees sothatmay influence my perception of the tree. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Boxelder Burl Took the burl up to the Hardwood Specialists placeyesterday. They said they would gladly place it inthe Kiln and dry it for me but would not guaranteethe results.Some Burl will dry real good and some will not.They were not sure about the Boxelder Burl. Theyshowed me some Boxelder that they had dried andsawed into boards. It was real pretty but saidthat the burl has no end grain and did not knowwhat it would do. The red in the Boxelder he saidwas a virus.He suggested I wrap a piece in a paper towel andplace in a microwave for about five minuets on lowsetting. Take it our and let it cool. Keeprepeating this for about 10 times and bring it upto him to check the moisture content. He checkedwhat I had there and all the lights on the meterlit up. The stuff is wet. I opted to not have itput in the kiln. Will cut it up and stack it up todry.I would try one piece in the Microwave if I had anold one to set outside.Years ago I burned a load of Boxelder and thestink was real bad, I would hate to use Mom'sMicrowave and not be able to use it for foodagain. It might also lead to a divorce. That wouldbe hard to take after 50 years.One good thing came out of this. I found some woodthat has beautiful grain. Had never heard of itbefore. It is called Kentucky Coffee Tree. Made upthree inserts from it and will go back up there inthe morning and get what he had left. Is thereanother name for this tree that anyone knowsabout.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from splitcane@home.com Fri Nov 30 20:25:57 2001 fB12PuH15642 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:25:56 -0600 ;Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:25:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues Hi Aj, Very interesting test and greatly appreciated!, I would be veryinterested to see if the Golfsmith shafting epoxy would stand up to the"freeze test" I know Pliobond stays flexible from below zero to 200* and Ithink the GS Epoxy might hit it's shear point as all epoxies would tend todo after such a dramatic climate change ( not to mention repeated exposure)Makes you wonder about using epoxies to glue up your strips also, but I'msure it's alright [;-)] Still using Pliobond and Gorilla, the quit glues... Take Care, Dave PS, Thanks for sharing your tip on swapping strips from two culms, makesonehell of a lot of since... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule Glues Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much of anexperimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces of cane with a simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was to pull them apart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) and myselfpulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as I couldcome up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tube notroughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing time with theinteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr from channer@frontier.net Fri Nov 30 20:48:17 2001 fB12mGH16423 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:48:16 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:00:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl George;The regular wood from a boxelder tree may only be useful for kindling,but you should see the burl wood before you make up your mind about it,it is very interestingjohn irish-george wrote: I have my doubts about the red in the boxelder being a virus unlessvirtually every tree is infected. I grew up around boxelders and have seenmany of them broken off in storms or just cut down and all of them hadsomered. While the boxelder is in the maple family, it is very weak and softand I don't find it at all pretty. I am amazed so many seem to want to useit for something other than kindling... George PS--Of course, I remember all those nasty boxelder bugs on the trees sothatmay influence my perception of the tree. from jbarber@verinet.com Fri Nov 30 21:07:15 2001 fB1379H17175 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:07:09 -0600 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:07:02 -0700 Subject: Boxelder fungus In the "Woodworker's Guide to Wood" by Rick Peters it sez "Credit anunglamorous fungus for the beauty of box elder. That's what causes the redstreaks that form stunning patterns in this wood. These impressivecolorations make this member of the maple family sought-after by woodturners......Red streaks in the wood are composed of a pigment from a fungus." from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Nov 30 21:27:41 2001 fB13RaH17669 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:27:36 -0600 , Subject: RE: Glue That's his lucky stick ,Bob. I couldn't fish for S... without it -Doug At 06:04 PM 11/30/2001 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: You are not fooling anyone with that lie, you fish monger! Try a fish or 20each time you go out. Lucky for the rest of us you spend so much timeripping flies out of trees or there would be no fresh fish left in WNY.LOL,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Eastkoyfly@aol.comSent: Friday, November 30, 2001 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Glue I almost forgot this rod has also landed a fish or two. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Nov 30 21:37:45 2001 fB13biH18087 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:37:44 -0600 , Subject: RE: Glue I am gonna offer to fix that bad ferrule, and break the thing then! -----Original Message----- Harris.James@ev.state.az.us; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Glue That's his lucky stick ,Bob. I couldn't fish for S... without it -Doug At 06:04 PM 11/30/2001 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: You are not fooling anyone with that lie, you fish monger! Try a fish or 20each time you go out. Lucky for the rest of us you spend so much timeripping flies out of trees or there would be no fresh fish left in WNY.LOL,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Eastkoyfly@aol.comSent: Friday, November 30, 2001 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Glue I almost forgot this rod has also landed a fish or two. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Nov 30 21:39:03 2001 fB13d2H18221 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:39:02 -0600 , Subject: RE: Glue That's his lucky stick ,Bob. I couldn't fish for S... without it -Doug OOps yeh, I have cast it but not fished it, of course I meant He Himself-Joe! -Doug At 06:04 PM 11/30/2001 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: You are not fooling anyone with that lie, you fish monger! Try a fish or 20each time you go out. Lucky for the rest of us you spend so much timeripping flies out of trees or there would be no fresh fish left in WNY.LOL,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Eastkoyfly@aol.comSent: Friday, November 30, 2001 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Glue I almost forgot this rod has also landed a fish or two. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY