fB6AjTj28469; Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Martin Thanks for the website. Pretty slick little piece of production, isn't it. And I thought that, with my small pile of vinyl 33 rpm's, I sort ofconstituted the Francoise Hardy memorial, the Hall of Fame, the Fanclub, andthe entire race memory. Thank Heavens that I was wrong! Still the best Hardy, though! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 6 05:21:42 2001 fB6BLet05581 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 05:21:41 -0600 fB6BLTk50949; Subject: Re: Interesting site I am a hand-planer, but have no problem with those who use machinery toproduce strips. In fact I suppose that the rodmakers whose work I admiremost never used handplanes at all. However, among all the other bull**** on this website, I came across, onceagain, the assertion that you can always tell the machined rod by the factthat the fibres are cut across and are visible as cut fibres on the edge ofthe blank. I just cannot work out just what inveterate handplaners understand this tomean. I mean, if you start at the thick end of a strip with "x" fibres andfinish at the thin end with, say, "x/5" fibres in the cross section, thenyou have cut the other 4/5 across no matter how you form the profile ofthestrip, surely. And if they have been cut, they will be visible at the edge. There are plenty of good reasons for hand planing, but they largely havereference to style and preference, and I think we should stop trotting outthis specious "cutting the fibres" argument. It may be true to state that the real machine makers may sometimesneglectto straighten the split strips well enough before milling, leading to moreforeshortened and acutely cut fibres, but I am quite sure that there areplenty of handplaners who fall into this error as well; so if what we meanis that it is an error to fail to straighten strips adequately and to dealwith nodes effectively, then let's say just that. Stay happy Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 6 05:25:50 2001 fB6BPmt05820 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 05:25:48 -0600 fB6BPgj35679; Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I thought a "cou rouge" was a Hereford. Peter from BambooRods@aol.com Thu Dec 6 07:49:18 2001 fB6DnHt07560 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 07:49:17 -0600 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:48:53 -0500 1206084853; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 08:48:53 -0500 Subject: Twist (not the dance) I was hoping for some advise. This is the first time it has happened but, Ihave a major twist in the butt section of a 45". The twist from one end tothe other is a full flat. What do you guy's think, should I try to straighten it(I don't even know how that process works) or would it be easier to make anew section. TIADoug from JNL123141@msn.com Thu Dec 6 07:58:50 2001 fB6Dwnt07893 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 07:58:49 -0600 Thu, 6 Dec 2001 05:58:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Interesting site FILETIME=[1DCE4ED0:01C17E5E] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Interesting site I don't want them getting in any ice chest. Too many end up that way now.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: I don't think I would want those fish getting on my ice cold beer. (Or = Rodeo cool, if you prefer).Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Interesting site Reed,There is always a thorn among the roses, we just live with it.Kind like the recent article on the White River in an Outdoor rag.The trout areso easy to catch., about all you have to do is open your ice chestand the troutwill jump in. Not really in those words but close.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com . -- I had tohide = Spezio Sent: Wednesday,December 05= rodmakers=@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: R= ny ice chest. Too many end up that way don't t=hink I would want those fish getting on my ice cold beer. (Or Rodeo&g= Wedn= = = from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Thu Dec 6 08:02:11 2001 fB6E2At08124 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:02:10 -0600 Thu, 6 Dec 2001 06:02:05 -0800 Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:02:05 GMT Subject: New Leclair Ferrule Station Cutters FILETIME=[9626DF00:01C17E5E] List-I was over to Daves last weekend and he let me check out a prototype of his new ferrule station cutters. WOW! Along with my LN Scraper, this will be another tool that without a doubt qualifies as an heirloom. In basic function the similarities to the old set cease. He had them professionally manufactured and packaged and it shows all the way. If I didn't know better, I would have thought I was looking at an obscure set of precision Starett tooling. He has a small pic on his web site, but you may have to contact him I just wanted to give you guys a heads up before you went out and got the 1 carat rock for Mrs. Rodmaker. Do yourself a favor and get the 3/4 instead and get yourself a stocking stuffer (Don't worry! Santa fishes wood when chasing Dolly Varden, I saw it on ESPN extreme outdoors!He'll understand!) I'm not sure if they are available yet, and I think he's working on some deal if you own an original set, but don't quote me on any of that. Like I said, contact Dave. Also, although I do owe a lot to Dave for his unselfish sharing of experience, I have NO FINANCIAL INTEREST!!!! I just get so stinking excited when I see a killer tool I have to blab....AND....you like to see good things happen to good people, and anyone who has dealt withDave knows that he is just that. Happy Holidays,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from jvswan@earthlink.net Thu Dec 6 08:09:11 2001 fB6E9At08489 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:09:10 -0600 (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Stress graphs, etc. OK, guys. I have heard a lot of you talking about stress graphs over thepast couple of years. I only got a single reply yesterday, with a goodsuggestion to look at the Hexrod web site. However, I am still looking forward to a good explanation about how to readthose stress curves, because they are with all the tapers I Iooked at in theRodmakers archive. What do those things tell me? What difference do theymake? Why are they there? I also asked about ferrule sizes for those tapers. What do you guys do todetermine ferrule size when looking at the tapers in the archives? Do youlook at a dimension at approximately the midpoint of the rod, and double itto get a close diameter? Still, it must be some sort of record that a question was asked on thislist, an actual honest to goodness rod building question, that only eliciteda single off list response. Are carp and presumptuous British rod web sitesthat much more interesting??? Hope to hear from you soon, Jason from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 6 08:09:47 2001 fB6E9jt08584 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:09:45 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels No Bull? [:-)] Tony At 10:25 PM 12/6/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: I thought a "cou rouge" was a Hereford. Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 6 08:14:40 2001 fB6EEdt08982 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:14:39 -0600 (authenticated) Thu, 6 Dec 2001 06:14:03 -0800 Subject: Re: Twist (not the dance) Doug, Straighten it!! It's not too hard to do. Use the heat gun on the lowestsetting. No gloves. Never get the section too hot to hold. Work on a smallarea. Get it warm, then over twist in the opposite direction and hold it till itcools. You should be able to accomplish the task in an hour or so. Harry BambooRods@aol.com wrote: I was hoping for some advise. This is the first time it has happened but, Ihave a major twist in the butt section of a 45". The twist from one end tothe other is a full flat. What do you guy's think, should I try to straighten it(I don't even know how that process works) or would it be easier to make anew section. TIADoug -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 6 09:03:38 2001 fB6F3ct11506 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:03:38 -0600 helo=default) id 16C03k-0003lG-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:03:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Twist (not the dance) Yep. If you can identify the beginning of the twist it will help you, too.Lay the blank down on a flat surface, and work your fingers down thetopmostflat until the blank no longer jumps from side to side, or rocks, as ittries to twist. When you hit the spot it quits jumping, that's thebeginning. Start heating from this spot, working your way out toward theend. Let's hope you don't have multiple twists. As Harry indicated, don'tget carried away with the heat. It takes very little actual heat to do thejob, but what you have to do is get it deep into the cane. This means youuse low heat and it takes time. A good way to tell if it's too hot is topress it against your chin, below your lip. If it burns you then it's toohot.Of course, this is all academic, as I've *never* made a blank with a twistnor a bend. ;o) M-D Doug, Straighten it!! It's not too hard to do. Use the heat gun on the lowest setting. No gloves. Never get the section too hot to hold. Work ona small area. Get it warm, then over twist in the opposite direction andhold it till it cools. You should be able to accomplish the task in an houror so. Harry BambooRods@aol.com wrote: I was hoping for some advise. This is the first time it has happened but, I have a major twist in the butt section of a 45". The twist from oneend to the other is a full flat. What do you guy's think, should I try tostraighten it (I don't even know how that process works) or would it beeasier to make a new section. TIA Doug from rmoon@ida.net Thu Dec 6 09:11:00 2001 fB6FAxt12043 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:10:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Twist (not the dance) --------------AF38E2D693EDE7F1FB96DB30 What do you guy's think,should I try to straighten it (I don't even know howthat process works) or would it be easier to make anew section. TIADoug Doug if you try to save it and screw it you are still ahead of thegame. If you make a new section you have lost time if you could havestraightend. Follow Harry's advice and go for it. Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium --------------AF38E2D693EDE7F1FB96DB30 What do you guy's think,should I try to straighten it (I don't even know howthat process works) or would it be easier to make anew section. TIADougDoug if you try to save it and screw it you are still ahead of the If you make a new section you have lost time if you could have Follow Harry's advice and go for it.Ralph-- WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium --------------AF38E2D693EDE7F1FB96DB30-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Dec 6 09:15:52 2001 fB6FFpt12491 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:15:51 - JAA09803 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:15:47 Subject: Re: Stress graphs, etc. Jason, Darryl Hayashida has a good explanation of stress curves, which explains how _most_ of us use them to judge and compare actions of rods from their tapers. You can access it athttp://www.uwm.edu/cgi- bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9710.461 We had a lively discussion of this in July. I think that is why someof us are holding back. You probably want to read the archives fromJuly on Stress Curves. Like everthing else, different people use different rules for choosingthe ferrule size. Some round to the nearest 64th, some round UP tothe nearest 64th (never down). Obviously the more cane you remove to fit the ferrule, the weaker that spot on the rod becomes. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Jason Swan wrote: However, I am still looking forward to a good explanation about how to readthose stress curves, because they are with all the tapers I Iooked at in theRodmakers archive. What do those things tell me? What difference dotheymake? Why are they there? I also asked about ferrule sizes for those tapers. What do you guys do todetermine ferrule size when looking at the tapers in the archives? Do youlook at a dimension at approximately the midpoint of the rod, and double itto get a close diameter? Jason from rmoon@ida.net Thu Dec 6 09:18:35 2001 fB6FIYt12833 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:18:34 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels At 10:25 PM 12/6/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: I thought a "cou rouge" was a Hereford. Peter You might be "une cou rouge" if you still hand plane. N'est ce pas. (I still do; what does that make me?) Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 6 09:19:31 2001 fB6FJTt12972 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:19:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Interesting site I checked this link out just now and since the dust seems to have settled I should just leave it alone but I've given some thought to this love of bamboo rod stuff and to be as poetic as it's often made to seem I'll say a lot of my thinking on the subject has been done using one as well as looking to the horizon keeping my boat on course for hrs on end with nothing much to do but think so yes, it's naval gazing at it's worst.My entry will take longer than the delivery (maybe not) as usual but I think the reason bamboo is hanging in there is for one main reason and this became apparent to me when I fished in the US where the modern style of rods have come from. The reason it became apparent only after I visited the US was rods like the Driggs and the Sir D while they are marvelous tapers simply wouldn't have been developed here as much for the reason they're sort of light as much as the terrain doesn't perfectly suit the rods the tapers were developed for. That's an obvious statement but it hits you in the face when it's completely different to what you are used to.There are places they are perfect but not many overall. When you fish the regions these were developed for you see the reasons behind the design, they aren't as apparent until then.That's not to day these rods wouldn't be great here, they are, very much so, my favorite wand is a Driggs but they wouldn't have developed here or NZ and most certainly NOT the UK or anywhere else. You can see a definite relationship between the conditions, the material and the designs in the US designs not apparent in a Hardy snake beater for eg. Flyfishing it's self is a result of *BAMBOO* rods. The very material defined the way the sport is conducted as far as trout fishing is concerned.It's like if leather's characteristics were different in some way shoes probably wouldn't be made as they are now, possibly not even used. The reason this is significant is the fishing is pretty good in the areas the better tapers have been or are being developed for use where they are appeal. The places they are at their best there is still good fishing, or good enough fishing.If the conditions everywhere were more like the big western rivers or the glacial ones of NZ or large impoundments and lakes like the better fish waters of Australia are where big fast water and wind are always a concern I do have to wonder if bamboo wouldn't have sort of mozied off into thesunset.Having said that armed with a Dickerson 7614 copy I feel well enough endowed to fish any trout anywhere. So, flyfishing developed alongside bamboo rods which were initially the benchmark to simply meet. The new materials had to be made to work as well and along the waythis was more or less done, for whatever reason people have decided faster rods are to their liking but not everybody feels this way and people do convert.It's easy to say this desire for faster rods is all hype but there are places they are good to use like casting into a strong wind day after day with a slow rod is pretty disheartening for eg and salt water fishing should be done with graphite IMHO but for pleasant trout fishing it is very hard to beat a good bamboo rod and sooner or later I think most people come around to that idea if they fish long enough for the very reason I first noted, the *sport* was developed alongside *bamboo* rod *design* that depended on *bamboo characteristics*. Tony "Much has been written about the "lovely, lively feel of a traditional cane rod". Much of this is nostalgia and ignores the many rods which were overweight, floppy and slow. If they were that good why did we discard them when fibre-glass first appeared on the scene?"Cane rods were discarded in favor of FRP for the same reason that priceless country antique furniture was stacked in the farmyard and burned, once the new chrome dining set arrived. They were MODERN. (rantoff)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Spezio wrote: Check out the Bamboo article on this site.Interesting about the flexible ferrules.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comhttp://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tackleroom.html . -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 6 09:26:22 2001 fB6FQLt13551 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:26:21 -0600 helo=default) id 16C0Pk-0005d1-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:26:20 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels At 10:25 PM 12/6/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: I thought a "cou rouge" was a Hereford. Peter You might be "une cou rouge" if you still hand plane. N'est ce pas. (I still do; what does that make me?) Ralph The curmudgeon of the Henry's Fork. What do I win for having the correctanswer? ;o) M-D from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 6 09:36:03 2001 fB6Fa2t14227 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:36:03 -0600 helo=default) id 16C0Z7-0001xq-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:36:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Interesting site I'll have you know that I'll be fishing the salt in March, and I'll befishing it with BAMBOO!Ain't skeered! ;o) M-D SNIP It's easy to say this desire for faster rods is all hype but there areplaces they are good to use like casting into a strong wind day after daywith a slow rod is pretty disheartening for eg and salt water fishingshould be done with graphite IMHO . . . SNIP Tony from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 09:50:22 2001 fB6FoLt15306 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:50:21 -0600 06 Dec 2001 07:50:20 PST Subject: Re: Twist (not the dance) well...before you get into heating and untwisting lookto se if the twist is between the butt and the firstguide, the stripping guide. if it is, the is nofunctional problem. if you decide to untwist, i wouldsuggest you fire up your oven and when up to tempaturei would plave the blank in the oven for a couple ofminutes and untwist it, gently. you need a buddy tohelp you. i have done it. i hate to do it. it won'ttake long in the oven for it to heat thru. good luck.timothy --- BambooRods@aol.com wrote: I was hoping for some advise. This is the firsttime it has happened but, I have a major twist inthe butt section of a 45". The twist from one endto the other is a full flat. What do you guy'sthink, should I try to straighten it (I don't evenknow how that process works) or would it be easierto make a new section. TIADoug ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 6 09:54:02 2001 fB6Fs1t15666 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:54:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Interesting site Well, it cannn be done.... Tony At 09:33 AM 12/6/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: I'll have you know that I'll be fishing the salt in March, and I'll befishing it with BAMBOO!Ain't skeered! ;o) M-D From: "Tony Young" SNIP It's easy to say this desire for faster rods is all hype but there areplaces they are good to use like casting into a strong wind day after daywith a slow rod is pretty disheartening for eg and salt water fishingshould be done with graphite IMHO . . . SNIP Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Dec 6 09:54:17 2001 fB6FsHt15733 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:54:17 -0600 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:54:10 -0500 1206105410; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:54:10 -0500 Subject: How Do I Use This Medved Beveler! List, I need some advice on how to actually use this Medved Beveler that I built. Itwas a kick to build, and seems to work very nicely on the 1/4" poplar dowelsthan I ran through it as a test. The beveled edges of the dowel square verywell in the 60 degree center gauge (BTW, this machine was very simple tobuild, and I would think that anyone who can make a bamboo fly rod couldbuild one. Cost was around $100 including a brand new router). However,when it comes to beveling bamboo with it I have some questions: Do I feed the strips to the router with the enamel side square to one side ofthe 60 degree form? Do I bevel one side of the strip, then bevel the other side of the strip whilethe beveler is at the same setting? Do I switch ends every time the strip is fed in the beveler? (feed startingwith end "A", then the next time the strip is fed start with end "B"). I am going to try and finish this first rod by 2/19/02 in time for my son's7th bday. He is just learning to cast/fly fish, and I have decided to make hisfirst fly rod. I convinced myself (for now) that the PHY Midge 4 wt would bea good shorter rod for him to handle and learn on, and it would also be a goodshorter 2 piece for me to make for the first rod. However, I am open tosuggestions on what the best taper would be for a child just learning to cast(and for my first rod to make!). Hope I am not wasting server resources with these elementary posts of mine(let me know if I am, I already checked the archives with no luck), but I have afeeling there are other rookies like myself and lurkers out there that maybenefit from some of these answers. Thanks, and have a great day! Kyle from lblove@omniglobal.net Thu Dec 6 10:20:34 2001 fB6GKXt17294 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:20:33 -0600 Subject: Re: How Do I Use This Medved Beveler! fB6GKYt17297 Kyle, I would go with a Payne 101 taper, it seems that just about anyone can pick one of these rods and start casting.I would start him off on a fast to mid fast rod,dont want him smoking when waiting on the backcastto load up the rod. My 10 year old learned to cast using a 8' rod of mine when he was 7. Shorter rods can be dangerousin unwitting hands, the fly is so much closer to the caster and the poor 6' fool standing behind and to the left of the caster.(if throwing tight loops) off to the garage i go,Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** I am going to try and finish this first rod by 2/19/02 in time for myson's 7th bday. He is just learning to cast/fly fish, and I have decidedto make his first fly rod. I convinced myself (for now) that the PHYMidge 4 wt would be a good shorter rod for him to handle and learn on, andit would also be a good shorter 2 piece for me to make for the first rod. However, I am open to suggestions on what the best taper would be for achild just learning to cast (and for my first rod to make!). from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Dec 6 11:14:45 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fB6HEjt20194 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:14:45 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:14:39 -0600 Subject: Glue Used by Winsto Rod Co Awhile back someone raised the question of the kind of glue used by WinstoRod Co. One of us had visited their workshop and had seen what looked like awater based white glue being used. I finally got around to asking about iton their web site's tech forum, they gave me the number to call, and whoshould answer but Glen Bracket. He was very open and helpful and gave methefollowing information. They use a water-based glue "in the same family as Elmer's" but with acatalyst. It is nontoxic. It is made by Henkel Adhesives Co., is part oftheir Dorus line of glues, and has the designation 55-6007M. Glen said thecatalyst causes greater cross-linking than in similar one-solution glues.The pot life is 3-4 hours. He said the down side is that it takes up to 30days to cure and that the product has a relatively brief shelf life. Thecompany's web page is at www.henkel.com, but I didn't find much technicalinformation there, or anything on this specific product. I left a messagerequesting technical information on the glue and will share whatever I get.I'll also try to explore the possibility of quicker setting with heat, shelflife if refrigerated, etc. The company's number is 847-608-0200. Of coursethis is an industrial supplier so several people would probably need to goin on a purchase if this seems like a product worth further exploration,once we know more about it. I certainly like the idea of an especiallystrong water based glue, if I don't have to wait a whole month for it tocure and if it lasts long enough in the fridge to be worth buying. I should have asked Glen more questions but I would have felt guilty keepinghim from making rods. He said he was delighted to share this sort of info,that people like us (small craftsmen and amateurs) are keeping the craftalive, and there really aren't any big secrets. Just make a hundred or sorods, he said, and you'll figure out the important things. Seemed like agenuinely nice guy. Barry from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Dec 6 11:24:48 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fB6HOlt20935 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:24:47 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:24:39 -0600 Subject: Winston Rod Co Glue Awhile back someone raised the question of the kind of glue used by WinstoRod Co. One of us, I don't remember who, had visited their workshop and hadseen what looked like a water based white glue being used. I finally gotaround to asking about it on their web site's tech forum, they gave me thenumber to call, and who should answer but Glen Brackett. He was very openand helpful and gave me the following information. They use a water-based glue "in the same family as Elmer's" but with acatalyst. It is nontoxic. It is made by Henkel Adhesives Co., is part oftheir Dorus line of glues, and has the designation 55-6007M. Glen said thecatalyst causes greater cross-linking than in similar one-solution glues.The pot life is 3-4 hours. He said the down side is that it takes up to 30days to cure and that the product has a relatively brief shelf life. Thecompany's web page is at www.henkel.com, but I didn't find much technicalinformation there, or anything on this specific product. I left a messagerequesting technical information on the glue and will share whatever I get.I'll also ask about the possibility of quicker setting with heat, shelf lifeif refrigerated, etc. The company's number is 847-608-0200. Of course thisis an industrial supplier so several people would probably need to go in ona purchase if this seems like a product worth further exploration, once weknow more about it. I certainly like the idea of an especially strong waterbased glue, if I don't have to wait a whole month for it to cure and if itlasts long enough in the fridge to be worth buying. I should have asked Glen more questions but I would have felt guilty keepinghim from making rods. He said he was delighted to share this sort of info,that people like us (small craftsmen and amateurs) are keeping the craftalive, and there really aren't any big secrets. Just make a hundred or sorods, he said, and you'll figure out the important things. Seemed like agenuinely nice guy. Barry from LambersonW@missouri.edu Thu Dec 6 12:38:39 2001 fB6Icct23916 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:38:39 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:38:37 -0600 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Stress graphs, etc. Jason, You are approximately correct in how I determine ferrule sizes. I build theblanks, measure them and fit the appropriate ferrule. The following description of stress curves is from the archives. Thanks toDarryl Hayashida: In it's most basic use a stress curve shows you how closea split cane rod is to breaking with the weight and length of line you specified. Garrison believed 200,000 ounces persquare inch was a good, safe upper level. In reality you cango up to 220,000 or 230,000 without any problems. Garrison himself went up to 220,000 on his lighter rods. Garrison believed that below the 140,000 point the bamboo stopped flexing. Some basic information on stress curves: The X axis is rod length, with the tip on the left and the handle on the right. The Y axis is ounces per square inch. This sounds like a pressure, as in psi, but it is really a stress measurement. The square inch refers to the area of the cross section of the rod at that point. The higher the stress curve goes, the more the rod will bend, taking the curve as a whole. I say this because a reading of 200,000 near the tip, where the rod is thin in diameter is going to bend more than a reading of 200,000 near the handle where the bamboo is thicker. But, if you compare a whole stress curve of one rod to the whole stress curve of another rod, the rod with a higher reading at the same point along the length will bend more at that point. A stress curve means nothing if you can't relate it to something. The only way you can start to see how a stress curve can help you is to graph up the stress curves of real rods and cast them. In my case I didn't have a bunch of rods to try. I had to make them. I now have a bunch of experimental rods lying around, but fortunately I was able to sell a few of the better experiments. I was also lucky in accidentally making a rod I really like (a Cattanach taper) on my third attempt, and being able to contrast that to a rod I really didn't like (a Garrison taper). As you get deeper into stress curves you can begin to pick out certaincharacteristics that tell you what kind of action the rod has, or will have if it hasn't been made yet. A Garrison rod, which I consider to be slow, has a well rounded "hump" near the tip and a fairly slow drop off as it goes towards the handle. Let's see if I can do this with ASCII art. || * * | * * * * *| * * * * *| * | * | *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The rod that I'm always raving about, the Cattanach 7' 0" 4 wt, I consider to be fairly fast. It has a stress curve like this: || * | * *| * * | * * | * * | * * *| * * * * ** *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The blip near the handle is the Cattanach hinge, and it greatly enhances roll casting. Don't forget to put it in. I did and the rod I made was a terrible roll caster. It isn't as necessary on longer rods, but on shorter rods it's definitely needed. A Paul Young Para 15, what is described as a parabolic action looks like this: || * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ Looking at this rod, and never having cast one, I would guess that it would feel fairly slow, due to the enhanced bending near the handle, but able to throw a lot of line, due to the stiff mid section. I would also guess that it could roll cast really well. There are as many variations of stress curves as there are rodmakers. This covers the slow, fast and parabolic actions. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Stress graphs, etc. OK, guys. I have heard a lot of you talking about stress graphs over thepast couple of years. I only got a single reply yesterday, with a goodsuggestion to look at the Hexrod web site. However, I am still looking forward to a good explanation about how to readthose stress curves, because they are with all the tapers I Iooked at in theRodmakers archive. What do those things tell me? What difference do theymake? Why are they there? I also asked about ferrule sizes for those tapers. What do you guys do todetermine ferrule size when looking at the tapers in the archives? Do youlook at a dimension at approximately the midpoint of the rod, and double itto get a close diameter? Still, it must be some sort of record that a question was asked on thislist, an actual honest to goodness rod building question, that only eliciteda single off list response. Are carp and presumptuous British rod web sitesthat much more interesting??? Hope to hear from you soon, Jason from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Dec 6 12:48:42 2001 fB6Imft24537 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:48:41 -0600 sender ) Subject: Aluminum rod tubes Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod tubes?? The places around here =seem very expensive, i.e. I can buy a finished tube for the same price = The tubing spec is 6061-T6 - 1 5/8" OD wall .058" thankstom ausfeld Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod = places around here seem very expensive, i.e. I can buy a finished tube = The tubing spec is 6061-T6 - 1 5/8" OD wall =.058" thankstom ausfeld from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Dec 6 12:59:33 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fB6IxXt25095 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:59:33 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:59:32 -0600 Subject: RE: Interesting site Tony -- What is it about conditions there that suggest US-style rods wouldn't havebeen developed? (not disagreeing, just not sure what you meant and I haven'tbeen there.) Also, if you want to talk about US rods developed for US conditions, I'dinclude lots of other US rods like the 8 1/2 and 9 foot Phillipsons orGrangers (those are the ones I personally like) and many others. The biastoward small light rods is rather new -- if you want to talk about what wasdeveloped in bamboo to suit US conditions (when bamboo was the onlymaterial, rather than a fringe market in a graphite world), it wasn't theSir D (much as I love it) so much as the 3/2 9-footer. Barry from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Dec 6 14:11:56 2001 fB6KBtt28692 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:11:55 -0600 Subject: Nickel Silver Wire Guys, Any suggestions for the OD of ni-silver wire for pinning reel seat caps? And a source of supply. thanx, Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from caneman@clnk.com Thu Dec 6 14:17:20 2001 fB6KHKt29199 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:17:20 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Dec 1 01:40:45 2001 fB17ejH25009 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:40:45 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:40:36 -0800 Sat, 01 Dec 2001 07:40:36 GMT Subject: RE: Ferrule Glues FILETIME=[774982D0:01C17A3B] Concerning the Accraglass - I don't know! Didn't have any. Might work super. The problem with the Devcon was a combination of shock and cold.The point at wich the accraglass turns brittle(has to happen at some temp, but at say -200F who cares?)might be so low as to render the argument a meaningless excersise. Also , having bedded a couple of rifles myself I don't remember the point being to glue the action to the stock anyway. If any one would like to continue the tests using accraglass(Brownells are good people) and freezing Golfsmith ....A.J. From: "Larry Blan" Subject: RE: Ferrule GluesDate: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:59:47 -0500 I've bedded a fair number of rifles that see winter use with no problems. Ionce glued a stock that was in 3 pieces back together with Acraglas andAcraglas gel. I lost track of it about 10 years ago, but the owner had usedit for 12 years at that time. Acraglas gel is amazing stuff, tough but notbrittle, and the shrinkage according to Brownells is 1/10 of 1%. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu HARMSSent: Friday, November 30, 2001 8:33 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule Glues Accraglas is used specifically by gunsmiths for purposes of bedding rifle barrels and actions. I can't imagine that freezing temperatureswould haveany effect on this product, as hunters and shooters use theirguns regularlyin subfreezing temps. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 6:57 PMSubject: Re: Ferrule Glues Jerry;I can testify that freezing alone doesn't seem to bother Accraglas Gelmuch at all. I haven't purposely tapped on any of them, but I keep atleast 4 rods in my van year around and have done so for 5 or 6 years, to date, none of them have failed because of temperature changes. I haveremove ferrules glued with Accraglas, but it takes almost enough heat to make the females come apart and the bamboo explode.john Jerry Madigan wrote: AJ, Did you perform the freeze test on all? I particularly wonder if the freezing damages the bond of all epoxies. Jerry --- Allen Thramer wrote: Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much ofanexperimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces ofcane witha simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it wastopull themapart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) andmyselfpulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as I couldcome up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tubenotroughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing timewith theinteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr couldnt get either one of these to budge 3 Ferrule-Tite Interior of the sleeve roughed up with the burr- aslightslip without a pin. Reheated the sleeve and pinned- no movement I would hasten to add that we were pulling for all we were worthwhen thecane came out an 1/8" 4 Devcon 5 min, sleeve roughed up. No slippage, BUT!! to test atheory Ihave heard about and prevoiusly wondered about. The effect offreezing for24 hrs in a 0* freezer and then rapping on the sleeve with a 4 ozsteelhammer(not hard enough to dent though) it pulled off. Think of anunheatedcargo compartment on an airplane....Of course UPS would never subject the item to any such brutaltreatment... 5 Standard ferrule cement(Gudebrod) Pulled much easier than theferrule- tite. When pinned we were able to get it to break the pin. Some other information - The only one that pulled readily was thefrozenDevcon, it was still a firm pull to get it to come apert though.All of theother methods would be sufficient under normal circumstances.Thelow tempof the Gudebrod would let go in a hotcar type of situation(notinvolving aDodge 440 six pack). I think that the ferrule-tite would be betterbut itstill was much softer at 170* or so. The Golfsmith was notsubjected to the'freeze' test. But I have not heard of the same persitant(10-12 yrs now)rumor that has plagued both the 2 ton and the 5min Devcon. Legal ramblings - In case there are any guys who are playinglawyerball....THESE TESTS ARE COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE ANDREPRESENTTHEEXPERIENCE OF A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS LIKELY A COMPLETEDOLT INTHEPROPER APPLICATION AND USE OF THE VARIOUS MATERIALSTESTED AND CANIN NO WAYBE RELIED UPON FOR ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT INTERESTING DINNERCONVERSATIONWHEN YOUR BORING RELATIVES SHOW UP FOR CHRISTMAS DINNERAND YOUNEED TO TALKABOUT SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE AND YOURBROTHER IN LAWDOESN'TBIRD HUNT! YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY! IN NO CASE WILL FERRULESTHATHAVE BEENAPPLIED USING THE NO DOUBT FLAWED DATA WILL BE ACCEPTED REPAIR. A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Dec 1 01:42:34 2001 fB17gXH25189 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:42:33 -0600 Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:42:27 -0800 Sat, 01 Dec 2001 07:42:27 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Aluminum tubes FILETIME=[B99EB650:01C17A3B] I have dealt with them since the mid eighties or so, always been a good supplierA.J. From: RMargiotta@aol.com Subject: Re: Aluminum tubesDate: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:32:37 EST Los Pinos Rods has tubes in 1 7/8" diameter. They have a black "krinkle"coating, are reasonably priced, and are perfect for 3/2 rods: http://www.flyrodcrafters.com/ They also have 2 1/8" tubes. --Rich _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from splitcane@home.com Sat Dec 1 05:05:10 2001 fB1B5AH29259 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 05:05:10 -0600 Subject: Gorilla Glue Here's a link to Gorilla Glue, some good info if your considering it use... http://www.gorillaglue.com/ Take Care, Dave from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Dec 1 06:25:38 2001 fB1CPbH00143 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 06:25:38 -0600 (63.228.45.48) " " Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes These tubes are made at a small cottage industry in Libby Montana. The ladywho makes them will do just about anything you ask her to do. I use acordura covered PVC tube leather covered ends with the persons nameembroidered on the end. The tube has a separate compartment for eachsection. the tips of the sections just peek out of the end of the tube whenyou unzip the top. Contact me off list and I'll send a picture. No finacialinterest etc. The low price will surprise youContact Lias Bardole at www.aladysangle.com/usa.htmDave -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes Los Pinos Rods has tubes in 1 7/8" diameter. They have a black "krinkle"coating, are reasonably priced, and are perfect for 3/2 rods: http://www.flyrodcrafters.com/ They also have 2 1/8" tubes. --Rich from homes-sold@home.com Sat Dec 1 07:05:17 2001 fB1D5HH00718 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 07:05:17 -0600 femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com ;Sat, 1 Dec 2001 05:05:16 -0800 Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues Can you imagine the shock and forces on the joint of a golf club head andshaft at impact with a golf ball from close to freezing to over 100Ÿ?Golfsmith shafting epoxy will withstand it. IMHO if you use this stuff toput ferrules on, don't plan on taking them off.Old golf club building trick: Lightly sand the end of the shaft, mix a verysmall amount of very fine silica sand with the epoxy and put it together. Ifyou want to take it apart; cut the shaft off and drill the rest out. Cherryred heat on the joint won't do the job.Don ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ferrule Glues Hi Aj, Very interesting test and greatly appreciated!, I would be veryinterested to see if the Golfsmith shafting epoxy would stand up to the"freeze test" I know Pliobond stays flexible from below zero to 200* and Ithink the GS Epoxy might hit it's shear point as all epoxies would tend todo after such a dramatic climate change ( not to mention repeated exposure)Makes you wonder about using epoxies to glue up your strips also, but I'msure it's alright [;-)] Still using Pliobond and Gorilla, the quit glues... Take Care, Dave PS, Thanks for sharing your tip on swapping strips from two culms, makesonehell of a lot of since... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule Glues Noting that most of the ferrule glueing discussion lacked much of anexperimenta basis, including mine! I decided to glue up pieces of cane with a simple NS sleeve (drawn, not machined)and see how hard it was to pull them apart. All tests were conducted with my son (6'2" and 230) and myselfpulling against each other as hard as we could. As real a test as I couldcome up with. from strongest to weakest: 1&2 Pliobond-glued witout roughing up the interior of the NS tube notroughed up and Golfsmith shafting epoxy after a 3 day curing time with theinteior of the sleeve roughed up with a ruby burr from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Dec 1 08:12:53 2001 fB1ECrH01773 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:12:53 -0600 helo=g2t8c9) id 16AAsq-000550-00; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 06:12:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Gorilla Glue Does the expanding 3-4 times its volume cause any problems resulting inglue lines between the splines? Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Gorilla Glue Here's a link to Gorilla Glue, some good info if your considering it use... http://www.gorillaglue.com/ Take Care, Dave from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 1 09:03:17 2001 fB1F3GH03643 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:03:16 -0600 fB1F3653004897 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:03:06 -0600 Subject: Breaking File and Glue Spreadsheet Good morning all, I have one question and one suggestion. First, what is the best way to break a 3 square file for filing the grove inmy planing forms I'm working on? Second, it would be great if someone much smarter than myself on the gluesubject would build a spreadsheet with pros and cons of the various glues. I wish everyone a great Saturday. Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX from DStone721@aol.com Sat Dec 1 09:13:40 2001 fB1FDeH03935 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:13:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Glue, PU Hi Jim and the group.... Here is some information on PU glues...... Joint made with hard wood maple, long grain to long grain, the shear strength is below: PU glue 3,510 lbsFranklins tightbond (yellow glue) 3,600 lbsTightbond 2 3750 lbs All of these strengths are stronger than the wood, and the wood will fail/ break before the glue will fail.... Shear srtrength is not PU's best attribute but is designed for end grain glueing. Also PU will not allow "joint creep" this is good for bamboo rod construction. Store PU in the frig or freezer, It will not freeze.... Take out 2 to 3 daysbefore use to get to room temp. Cold glue will slow curing and increase working time. PU glue will not fill cracks..... PU glues are designed for tight contactapplications, The material foams up, the foam is CO2 gas in the glue, and has no holding strength. Gaps below 1 mm (.002 inches) are the best for this glue ,,, so the joints have to be tight. Epoxy fills gaps.... Excel One (PU glue has the smallest CO2 bubbles) PU glue is water proof, even when soaked in water, after it has cured. set time.... 90 % strength 24 hrs, 100 % 5 to 7 days. It needsmoisture to cure ( about 8 t0 20%) , so hard woods, like bamboo need to be sprayed/misted slighty with water before gluing, and not much pressure should be applied or the glue will beforced out... about 30 to 60 PSI is good. Dont wrap/bind the sticks to tight..... Use / glue in temperatures above 50 deg. F. for curing. Clean equipment with acetone or lacquer thinner. Bonds has good strength at extended temperatures from-40 deg. F to 210 deg, F. glue starts to softens at around 200 to 210 deg F. Doug S. ___________________________________________________________In a message dated 11/30/2001 8:38:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, Harris.James@ev.state.az.us writes: Subj:GlueDate:11/30/2001 8:38:35 AM Pacific Standard TimeFrom: Harris.James@ev.state.az.us (James Harris)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Guys My gluing experience has been primarily with URAC and PU. I used URAC for a long time and may go back to it. I just recently however, used up my first bottle of PU/Gorilla glue. I really like many things about PU but I plan to try something else next Heres why. When I get a glue line, PU, with it's foaming action will fill this gap with micro bubbles. I have to use magnification to see them, but they are there. I'm very concerned about this 'foam' down inside my rods filling the micro spaces between splines. I've had no PU failures yet. I just don't trust it for the long haul and that's enough reason for me to move on. I plan on trying Titebond II Extend next. The simplicity of a strong, one part glue with a shelf life appeals to me.My .02 Jim Harris Hi Jim and the group.... PU glues...... maple, long grain to long grain, stronger than the wood, and the wood best attribute but is designed for end grain glueing. creep" this is good for bamboo rod construction. foams up, the foam is CO2 gas in the glue, gaps.... smallest CO2 bubbles) not much pressure should be applied or the glue will be wrap/bind the sticks to tight..... 40 deg. F to 210 deg, F. ___________________________________________________________In a message dated 11/30/2001 8:38:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,Harris.James@ev.state.az.us writes: Subj:GlueDate:11/30/2001 8:38:35 AM Pacific Standard Time (rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu) Guys simplicity of a strong, one part glue with a shelf life appeals to me.My .02 Jim Harris from raymondttodd@mindspring.com Sat Dec 1 09:14:12 2001 fB1FEBH03983 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:14:11 -0600 helo=default) id 16ABqE-00048P-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:14:11 -0500 Subject: casting fracture Help! I recently completed a 7' 6" 3 piece semi parabolic rod. A shorttime after completion and test casting, ( unsure of exact time frame), Inoticed a white circular line below the serrated tab of the ferrule in thetip section wrap. Upon closer examination I noticed a similar crack in thetop of the mid section ferrule wrap in the same place. The rod flexes downto the butt. Can this be repaired without removing the wrap? Any and all suggestionsare greatly appreciated. How does one anticipate and prevent this in thefuture? I tried lightly sanding and recoating with varnish. No good. Thanks, Tom Todd from channer@frontier.net Sat Dec 1 09:25:50 2001 fB1FPnH04510 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:25:49 -0600 Subject: Re: casting fracture Tom;This is very common, if you made separate wraps up to the ferrule, thenover the ferrule, then don't worry about it. It wil help prevent this ifyou feather the ferrule tabs out to the cane so they are very thin, itwill also help to not use any form of color preserver. One other thing,end the wrap at the end of the ferrule tab wherever you can, if there isnothing there, there is nothing to crack.John "raymond t. todd" wrote: Help! I recently completed a 7' 6" 3 piece semi parabolic rod. A shorttime after completion and test casting, ( unsure of exact time frame), Inoticed a white circular line below the serrated tab of the ferrule in thetip section wrap. Upon closer examination I noticed a similar crack in thetop of the mid section ferrule wrap in the same place. The rod flexes downto the butt. Can this be repaired without removing the wrap? Any and all suggestionsare greatly appreciated. How does one anticipate and prevent this in thefuture? I tried lightly sanding and recoating with varnish. No good. Thanks, Tom Todd from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Sat Dec 1 10:22:25 2001 fB1GMOH05417 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:22:24 -0600 Sat, 01 Dec 2001 08:22:24 PST Subject: Re: Block Plane I ordered a 9 1/2 through my local home improvementstore and I got the G12 020. The catalog at the timestill listed the name 9 1/2, but like John Channersaid, the newer model number being used is G12 020. It was fairly inexpensive at $38.00 retail. Chrisblitzenrods@yahoo.com --- Ed Riddle wrote: What's the difference between a Stanley G12 020 anda Stanley 9 1/2?Ed __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Sat Dec 1 10:43:06 2001 fB1Gh5H05869 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:43:05 -0600 Sat, 01 Dec 2001 08:43:04 PST Subject: Re: Hide Glue Primitive bowyers often use hide glue to affix sinewto the backs of their bows. Sinew is taken from theanimal, pounded on a hard surface with a ball peenhammer which separates it into strands. These strandsare dipped into a glue pot of hide glue and then layedout on the back (outside) limb of the bow to reinforcethe wood when under stress. It's my understandingthat the hide glue is basically powdered or granulatedsinew, and the two meld together to form the backing. Some of these flat bows are subjected to a greatamount of tension when at full draw. I can't remember if I heard it here or among my bowyerfriends, but someone told me that Gelatine works likehide glue. If you mix it in a concentrated form andspread it thin, it is highly sticky and strongbonding. I found a box of Knox unflavored gelatine in thecupboard but I can't see on the directions if thisstuff is actually produced from the sinew of animalsor what. There isn't any ingredient information, it'sjust "gelatine". I hope I haven't made a fool of myself with my failingmemory. Does anyone know what gelatine is made from? Chrisblitzenrods@yahoo.com --- CALucker@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/30/01 3:24:23 PM PacificStandard Time, harms1@pa.net > writes: My understanding is that one ought not use the prepared (liquid) hide glues be melted in a pot. Apparently the liquid form has additives in it that weaken the potential bond. Yes, I agree. Also, use the granular hide glue, notthe beads. I have never had problems myself with using the beads in my gluepot, but the guitar guys tell me the granular is stronger. Both stink,though.Chris Lucker __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from briansr@point-net.com Sat Dec 1 10:48:25 2001 fB1GmOH06052; fB1H2Wm16827; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:02:33 -0500 Subject: To provide a link to another This page was created using tables. To change the way the columns look,select the cells you want to change and use the options on the Table menu.Type some text. from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 1 10:50:14 2001 fB1GoEH06290 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 10:50:14 -0600 helo=default) id 16ADLB-0007qj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 11:50:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Hide Glue OFF LIST Chris, Your original assertion is correct about the bows, though consider that themost powerful bow in use amongst the Native Americans was some 35# pull(Apache), and most wouldn't even top 20#. They relied more on their skill ashunters than they did their mechanical genius. Still, modern bowyers havedone quite well with this technique. Gelatin and hide glue are not the same thing. Gelatin is highly refined fromthe bones of animals, and has less complex proteins. Hide glue is just that,is made in several various gram strengths, and contains highly complexproteins structures, which give it its phenomenal strength. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Hide Glue I hope I haven't made a fool of myself with my failingmemory. Does anyone know what gelatine is made from? Chrisblitzenrods@yahoo.com --- CALucker@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/30/01 3:24:23 PM PacificStandard Time, harms1@pa.netwrites: My understanding is that one ought not use the prepared (liquid) hide glues be melted in a pot. Apparently the liquid form has additives in it that weaken the potential bond. Yes, I agree. Also, use the granular hide glue, notthe beads. I have neverhad problems myself with using the beads in my gluepot, but the guitar guystell me the granular is stronger. Both stink,though.Chris Lucker __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 1 11:14:27 2001 fB1HEQH07330 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:14:26 -0600 helo=excalibur.ix.netcom.com) id 16ADib-0000JH-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 12:14:26 -0500 Subject: Another virus Heads up guys! I just received another virus email. The antivirus program called it Win32.Magistr.29188. The text is: "This page was created using tables. To change the way the columns look, select the cells you want to change and use the options on the Table menu.Type some text.AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined." Sender name is brian sturrock and the enclosure is CLICK.BAT. email name: To provide a link to another Regards,Onis from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Dec 1 11:16:55 2001 fB1HGsH07522 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:16:54 -0600 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:16:54 -0500 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:16:53 -0500 Subject: PU Adhesives; Independent Analysis of Performance (long) fB1HGtH07523 All, Below are excerpts from a study of four different one-part PU adhesivespublished in the Forest Products Journal.My conclusion from looking at this paper is that PU is for all normal(rodmaking) purposes as good as, or better than Resorcinol. If you want to lookat the whole paper go to the following URL: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1998/vick98b.pdf -Doug STRENGTH AND DURABILITY OF ONE-PARTPOLYURETHANE ADHESIVE BONDS TO WOODCHARLES B . VICKE. ARNOLD OKKONEN The authors are, respectively, Research Scientist and Physical ScienceTechnician, USDAForest Serv., Forest Prod. Lab., One Gifford Pinchot Dr., Madison, WI53705-2398. The useof trade or firm names in this publication is for reader information anddoes not implyendorsement by the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture of any product or service. Theauthorsacknowledge and express their gratitude to Cherilyn Hatfield and JamesEvans at the ForestProd. Lab. for conducting the statistical analyses. This paper was received August 1998. Reprint No. 8844.Forest Products Society Member.Forest Products Society 1998.Forest Prod. J. 48(11/12):71-76. Four commercial one-part polyurethaneadhesives were obtained directly from U.S. suppliers. Product names havenot been disclosed here, nor to any inquirers,as was agreed to by suppliers andauthors. All four adhesives were appliedand cured in general accordance with themanufacturer's instructions, unless notedotherwise in the procedures of this report.A resorcinol- formaldehyde adhesive,supplied by Indspec Chemical Corporation,Pittsburgh, Pa., and identified asPenacolite G-1131-A resin and G-1131-Bhardener, was used as a standard ofperformance for comparison with polyurethaneadhesives.---------------------------------------------CO N C L U S I O N SThe dry shear strength and wood failurevalues indicated that the one- partpolyurethane adhesive bonds were atleast as strong as bonds of a resorcinolformaldehydestructural adhesive on yellowbirch and Douglas-fir. Wet shearstrengths measured after three differentwater-saturating test procedures indicatedthat polyurethane bonds were asstrong as those of resorcinol. However,measurements of wood failure indicatedthat polyurethane bonds were not equivalent,and they developed very low levelsof wood failure relative to those of thehighly durable resorcinol adhesive. Amoderately severe two-cycle boil test indicatedpolyurethane bonds varied fromhigh to low resistance to delamination,while the resorcinol bonds were completelyresistant to delamination. A verysevere cyclic delamination test that qualitiesadhesives for structural laminatedwood products for exterior exposurecaused severe delamination of polyurethanebonds in lumber laminates of yellowbirch and Douglas-fir. In a test ofresistance to deformation under staticloads, polyurethane bonds to yellow birchwithstood extremes of temperature andrelative humidity for 60 days without deformation,thereby exceeding structuralrequirements of ASTM D 2559-92 (4).Limited testing indicated that a recentlydeveloped HMR coupling agent dramaticallyincreases delamination resistanceof polyurethane adhesives when thewood surfaces are primed with the couplingagent before bonding. from stoltz10@attbi.com Sat Dec 1 11:18:28 2001 fB1HIRH07676 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:18:27 -0600 ;Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:18:05 +0000 "Todd Talsma" , "Thom Anderson","Thom" , "Sam Hart" ,, ,,"Dorald Stoltz" ,"Dorald" , "Dick Pieters" ,"Dave and Denise Schwarz" ,"Dana and Brian Gray" , "Clint" ,"Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" ,"bryan wynn" ,"Andy and Jaime Schmidt" ,"Alicia Heman" Subject: new email adress Hi to all my new adress is stoltz10@attbi.com stoltz10@attbi.com from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 1 11:31:17 2001 fB1HVGH08227 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:31:17 -0600 helo=default) id 16ADyu-0001G7-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 12:31:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Another virus This one was different, and didn't try to self-execute. Given the wording inthe message, I thought it had something to do with a spreadsheet for theglue properties, as was suggested previously. M-D Heads up guys! I just received another virus email. The antivirus program called it Win32.Magistr.29188. The text is: "This page was created using tables. To change the way the columns look,select the cells you want to change and use the options on the Table menu.Type some text.AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined." Sender name is brian sturrock and the enclosure is CLICK.BAT. email name: To provide a link to another Regards,Onis from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sat Dec 1 11:40:09 2001 fB1He8H08590 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:40:08 -0600 fB1HvNma022796; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:57:23 -0600 Subject: RE: Another virus I got the virus from Brian Sturrock, or at least that is what the emailsaid. I would say this is different because I have not received any of theother virus you folks have been talking a about (may ISP must clean thembefore I get it, I'm running Windows 2000), but I did receive this one.However, my Norton did catch this one. Sorry for the bandwidth. Darrin Curtis from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Sat Dec 1 11:48:22 2001 fB1HmLH08903 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:48:21 -0600 fB1HmJ965358 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:48:20 -0500 Subject: addministrator how to contact Addministrator of rod makers pages, any help,Tony Larson how to contact Addministrator of rod = any help, Tony Larson from lblan@provide.net Sat Dec 1 11:51:53 2001 fB1HprH09168 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:51:53 -0600 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:51:48 -0500 Subject: RE: Another virus I really do have to remember to send a note to my ISP thanking them forputting up the AV software on their servers. I have yet to see one of these! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: RE: Another virus I got the virus from Brian Sturrock, or at least that is what the emailsaid. I would say this is different because I have not receivedany of theother virus you folks have been talking a about (may ISP must clean thembefore I get it, I'm running Windows 2000), but I did receive this one.However, my Norton did catch this one. Sorry for the bandwidth. Darrin Curtis from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sat Dec 1 16:01:40 2001 fB1M1dH15075 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:01:39 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Virus Aler Everyone needs to update the virus software... Thanks Dave Everyone needs to update the virus from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Dec 1 16:26:17 2001 fB1MQGH15766 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:26:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Hide Glue In a message dated 12/01/2001 11:47:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, blitzenrods@yahoo.com writes: Chris,As far as I know, Gelatin is made from horseshooves. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Dec 1 17:27:12 2001 fB1NRBH16875 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:27:11 -0600 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 18:27:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Hide Glue I suppose there are many sources, but I just saw a show on National Geographic about the California coast, and they showed a kelp (seaweed) harvester working. The narrator stated that kelp was processed to produce most of the U.S. gelatin, used in foods and cosmetics.Darryl Hayashida. I hope I haven't made a fool of myself with my failingmemory. Does anyone know what gelatin is made from? Chris >> Chris,As far as I know, Gelatin is made from horseshooves. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html Isuppose there are many sources, but I just saw a show on NationalGeographic about the California coast, and they showed a kelp (seaweed)harvester working. The narrator stated that kelp was processed to producemost of the U.S. gelatin, used in foods and cosmetics.Darryl Hayashida. << I hope I haven't made a fool of myself with my failingmemory. Does anyone know what gelatin is made from? Chris, horses http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from richjez@enteract.com Sat Dec 1 17:35:52 2001 fB1NZpH17288 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:35:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Another virus --=====================_2633124==_.ALT Interesting: I got the same one but norton said it wasW32 Magistr 39921@mmvirus. I wonder what the difference was?Rich Jezioro At 11:15 AM 12/1/01, Onis Cogburn wrote: Heads up guys! I just received another virus email. The antivirus program called it Win32.Magistr.29188. The text is: "This page was created using tables. To change the way the columns look, select the cells you want to change and use the options on the Table menu.Type some text.AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined." Sender name is brian sturrock and the enclosure is CLICK.BAT. email name: To provide a link to another Regards,Onis --=====================_2633124==_.ALT Interesting: I got the same one but norton said it was W32 Magistr 39921@mmvirus. I wonder what the difference was?Rich Jezioro At 11:15 AM 12/1/01, Onis Cogburn wrote: "This page was created using tables. To change the way the columnslook, select the cells you want to change and use the options on theTable menu.Type some text.AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined." Sender name is brian sturrock and the enclosure is CLICK.BAT. email name: To provide a link to another Regards,Onis --=====================_2633124==_.ALT-- from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 1 17:42:47 2001 fB1NglH17686 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:42:47 -0600 helo=default) id 16AJmG-000269-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 18:42:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Hide Glue The type of gelatin made from seaweed is called agar, used in =laboratories as a culture medium, laxatives, who knows what else. M-D Subject: Re: Hide Glue I suppose there are many sources, but I just saw a show on National =Geographic about the California coast, and they showed a kelp (seaweed) =harvester working. The narrator stated that kelp was processed to =produce most of the U.S. gelatin, used in foods and cosmetics.Darryl Hayashida. Chris,As far as I know, Gelatin is made from =horseshooves. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html The type of gelatinmade = is called agar, used in laboratories as a culture medium, laxatives, who = what else. M-D ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, = PMSubject: Re: Hide Glue there are many sources, but I just saw a show on National Geographic = California coast, and they showed a kelp (seaweed) harvester working. = narrator stated that kelp was processed to produce most of the U.S. = used in foods and cosmetics.DarrylHayashida.<< I hope I haven't made a fool of = = = = =Davehttp://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Dec 1 17:50:50 2001 fB1NonH18119 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:50:49 -0600 Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:39:08 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Virus Alert, anyone have some advice?? --------------D14F63A6ECEAF6BA58878E31 I'm usually not affected by this but today Norton picked up on a virus called"Backdoor.Sub.Seven" I pressed delete and Norton said it could not delete itas itwas a read only file or something of the sort, then I asked Norton toQuarantine itand it said it could only move the file and leave it alone.Subsequent updates show Norton protects against this virus but Iscannedseveral times and can't seem to find it now??? Norton says my system isclean andnothing in Quarantine??Anyone have any advice for me?? Should I trust my system or is thereanother wayI could detect this virus??I really hate the idiots that start these things!! What do they gain byscrewingup Joe publics computer system??Sorry for the NRM bandwidth but I want to be sure??Shawn Davesrods wrote: Everyone needs to update the virus software... Thanks Dave --------------D14F63A6ECEAF6BA58878E31 I'm usually not affected by this but today Norton picked up on a virus not delete it as it was a read only file or something of the sort, thenI asked Norton to Quarantine it and it said it could only move the fileand leave it alone. protectsagainst this virus but I scanned several times and can't seem to find itnow??? Norton says my system is clean and nothing in Quarantine?? trustmy system or is there another way I could detect this virus?? things!! What do they gain by screwing up Joe publics computer system?? wantto be sure?? ShawnDavesrods wrote: Everyone Dave --------------D14F63A6ECEAF6BA58878E31-- from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Dec 1 17:52:55 2001 fB1NqnH18306 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:52:50 -0600 Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:45:40 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Block Plane --------------0183867E6A95481145C2A188 Ed,the main difference is the blade adjustment mechanism, the newerversion is said Matter of personal opinion I guess,Shawn Ed Riddle wrote: What's the difference between a Stanley G12 020 and a Stanley 9 1/2?Ed --------------0183867E6A95481145C2A188 Ed, mechanism, the newer version is said by some not to be as accurate as theold system used on the 9 1/2. ShawnEd Riddle wrote: What'sthe difference between a Stanley G12 020 and a Stanley 91/2?Ed --------------0183867E6A95481145C2A188-- from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Dec 1 19:00:08 2001 fB2107H20284 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:00:07 -0600 fB2104Y18542 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:00:04 -0600 Subject: Dave Collyer My reply to you bounced. Contact me off list.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from bob@downandacross.com Sat Dec 1 20:13:10 2001 fB22D4H21264 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:13:09 -0600 Sat,1 Dec 2001 18:56:37 -0500 Subject: The legend continues Well, the legend of the River Runs Through it rods continues. I know it wasWalt Powell's hexagraph rods, but here is another slant. This makes at least3 other guys who are claimed to have had a hand in the Movie rods. JohnPickard, Bob Taylor, and someone I just cannot recall right now.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1040509884 from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 1 20:28:35 2001 fB22SZH21644 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:28:35 -0600 helo=default) id 16AMMo-00025B-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 01 Dec 2001 21:28:31 -0500 Subject: Re: The legend continues I believe it was Doug Kulick at Kane Klassics. M-D Well, the legend of the River Runs Through it rods continues. I know it was Walt Powell's hexagraph rods, but here is another slant. This makes at least 3 other guys who are claimed to have had a hand in the Movie rods. JohnPickard, Bob Taylor, and someone I just cannot recall right now.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1040509884 from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 1 20:53:06 2001 fB22qbH22168 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:52:37 -0600 Subject: Re: The legend continues BobI was an advisor on the movie. Check the screen credits to determinejust who was involved. There have been many who have claimed to haveworked on the film, but the fact I never find them mentioned in thecredits makes me doubt their claims. The rods were hexagraphs with theGranger reel seat. I fished with one on Dupuy's Creek. I thought itwas more akin to a telephone pole. In all fairness, Walt later showedme some of his hexagraph rods, and they were immeasurably better.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from if6were9@bellsouth.net Sat Dec 1 20:56:56 2001 fB22utH22383 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:56:55 -0600 ;Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:57:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl Could the red color be from a mineral stain, or perhaps spalting? irish-george wrote: I have my doubts about the red in the boxelder being a virus unlessvirtually every tree is infected. I grew up around boxelders and have seenmany of them broken off in storms or just cut down and all of them hadsomered. While the boxelder is in the maple family, it is very weak and softand I don't find it at all pretty. I am amazed so many seem to want to useit for something other than kindling... George PS--Of course, I remember all those nasty boxelder bugs on the trees sothatmay influence my perception of the tree. ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:57 PMSubject: Boxelder Burl Took the burl up to the Hardwood Specialists placeyesterday. They said they would gladly place it inthe Kiln and dry it for me but would not guaranteethe results.Some Burl will dry real good and some will not.They were not sure about the Boxelder Burl. Theyshowed me some Boxelder that they had dried andsawed into boards. It was real pretty but saidthat the burl has no end grain and did not knowwhat it would do. The red in the Boxelder he saidwas a virus.He suggested I wrap a piece in a paper towel andplace in a microwave for about five minuets on lowsetting. Take it our and let it cool. Keeprepeating this for about 10 times and bring it upto him to check the moisture content. He checkedwhat I had there and all the lights on the meterlit up. The stuff is wet. I opted to not have itput in the kiln. Will cut it up and stack it up todry.I would try one piece in the Microwave if I had anold one to set outside.Years ago I burned a load of Boxelder and thestink was real bad, I would hate to use Mom'sMicrowave and not be able to use it for foodagain. It might also lead to a divorce. That wouldbe hard to take after 50 years.One good thing came out of this. I found some woodthat has beautiful grain. Had never heard of itbefore. It is called Kentucky Coffee Tree. Made upthree inserts from it and will go back up there inthe morning and get what he had left. Is thereanother name for this tree that anyone knowsabout.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Sat Dec 1 21:03:46 2001 fB233kH22723 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:03:46 -0600 Sat, 01 Dec 2001 19:03:35 PST Subject: Re: The legend continues The bait rod that Norman's future brother-in-law Neilhad looks like a Heddon. The rod that their father teaches them to cast withearly in the movie looks to be bamboo. It has ashallow full wells grip of about 7", a hookkeeper onthe low left flat, a large, stepped winding check andred wraps. The bright full metal internal uplocking reelseatlooks like Granger, but that one didn't come out until1938 which was after the time frame this movie tookplace. Does anyone know the make of the rod in this scene atthe early part of the movie? Just curious. Chris __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Dec 1 21:05:20 2001 fB235JH22917 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:05:19 -0600 Sat, 1 Dec 2001 19:05:10 -0800 Sun, 02 Dec 2001 03:05:10 GMT Subject: Re: casting fracture FILETIME=[2769FB70:01C17ADE] This has been known as 'breaking the varnish' as long as rods have been joined by metal ferrules. It has never been considered a defect and is much more common on two kinds of rods, slower full working actions and thosethat are used for fishing instead of investment vehicles.A.J. From: "raymond t. todd" Subject: casting fractureDate: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:13:32 -0500 Help! I recently completed a 7' 6" 3 piece semi parabolic rod. A shorttime after completion and test casting, ( unsure of exact time frame), Inoticed a white circular line below the serrated tab of the ferrule in thetip section wrap. Upon closer examination I noticed a similar crack in thetop of the mid section ferrule wrap in the same place. The rod flexes downto the butt. Can this be repaired without removing the wrap? Any and all suggestionsare greatly appreciated. How does one anticipate and prevent this in thefuture? I tried lightly sanding and recoating with varnish. No good. Thanks, Tom Todd _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 1 21:05:28 2001 fB235RH22922 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:05:27 -0600 Subject: Re: The legend continues I guess that I should have addressed the rod issue a little more indepth. The producer Patrick Markey, came to me and asked what type ofrods I thought that the McClains would have used. I told him thatMontegue and South Bends were very popular in the West, but that I wouldhave thought that they might have gone to something better, HeddonGranger etc. For some reason, the name Montegue stuck n Patricks mind,and he approached Thomas and Thomas to see if they have some Montegueshe could get for the film. T and T indicated that they had nothing atthe time, but that they would find a couple and restore them forPatrick. When the rods came, the casting doubles had a hard time doingthe exhibition type of casting with the cane, and so Patrick approachedWalton Powell. Walton had just gotten the license for Hexagraphs, butthey were traditional graphite black. Walt told Patrick, no problem andwent to the hardware store and bought some pant had personally paintedthe rods to simulate bamboo. Patrick who was the co-producer withRobert Redford, never mentioned any other attempts to obtain rods otherthan I have just outlined. That does not necessarily mean that hedidn't, simply that I do not know. Knowing the production staff, I canassure you that any advisors were mentioned in the screen credits, andit would be my opinion that if someone failed to be mentioned, he failedto do any thing with the film --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 1 21:48:01 2001 fB23m0H24056 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:48:00 -0600 Subject: Re: The legend continues I know the fellow who supplied all the Dri Az A Bone stockman jackets for the Man from Snowy River movie from years back. He told me he suppliedover 500 which is a lot more than one for every cast member and film crew.Maybe these people supplied the rods but the rods never made it past the equivalent of the the rod's version of the producer's casting couch as it were??? Tony At 07:50 PM 12/1/01 -0700, Ralph Moon wrote: BobI was an advisor on the movie. Check the screen credits to determinejust who was involved. There have been many who have claimed to haveworked on the film, but the fact I never find them mentioned in thecredits makes me doubt their claims. The rods were hexagraphs with theGranger reel seat. I fished with one on Dupuy's Creek. I thought itwas more akin to a telephone pole. In all fairness, Walt later showedme some of his hexagraph rods, and they were immeasurably better.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from briansr@point-net.com Sun Dec 2 00:05:29 2001 fB265SH27586 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 00:05:28 -0600 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:19:54 -0500 Subject: RE:virus Just got rid of the &^%$ thing:-(((((((((Funny thing was Nrton didn't pick it up until I recieved a headsup from RMand another list .So I sent myself an e-amail and then the alarms went off!!!Cheers Brian from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Dec 2 01:18:08 2001 fB27I8H00998 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:18:08 -0600 Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:18:02 -0800 Sun, 02 Dec 2001 07:18:02 GMT Subject: Re: The legend continues FILETIME=[7AD1AD30:01C17B01] Does the irony of having a producer so ignorant of flyfishing and its history that he would saddle his 'flycaster doubles' with Montagues has ended up pushing an industry to heights of popularity unimagined and in the process has reborn the bamboo rod business? Did we try to correct the problem with a rod of quality, NO! we immediately regress to a fake graphite/cane rod ughh! painted to look like the real thing. A triumph of image over substance. Even out here in the dark corners of the world a flyfisherman of talent would rarely show up with a Monty. Plenty of them around with little sign of honest use, hanger queens. Almost no one would afford an Eastern rod of note but rather Phillipsons, Grangers, Heddons, SB, The fortunate would come up with a Powell and for the stratospheric aspiration, a Winston.A.J. From: Ralph Moon CC: Rodmakers discussion group Subject: Re: The legend continuesDate: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 20:03:13 -0700 I guess that I should have addressed the rod issue a little more indepth. The producer Patrick Markey, came to me and asked what type ofrods I thought that the McClains would have used. I told him thatMontegue and South Bends were very popular in the West, but that I wouldhave thought that they might have gone to something better, HeddonGranger etc. For some reason, the name Montegue stuck n Patricks mind,and he approached Thomas and Thomas to see if they have someMontegueshe could get for the film. T and T indicated that they had nothing atthe time, but that they would find a couple and restore them forPatrick. When the rods came, the casting doubles had a hard time doingthe exhibition type of casting with the cane, and so Patrick approachedWalton Powell. Walton had just gotten the license for Hexagraphs, butthey were traditional graphite black. Walt told Patrick, no problem andwent to the hardware store and bought some pant had personally paintedthe rods to simulate bamboo. Patrick who was the co-producer withRobert Redford, never mentioned any other attempts to obtain rods otherthan I have just outlined. That does not necessarily mean that hedidn't, simply that I do not know. Knowing the production staff, I canassure you that any advisors were mentioned in the screen credits, andit would be my opinion that if someone failed to be mentioned, he failedto do any thing with the film --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from shane_person@telus.net Sun Dec 2 02:03:04 2001 fB2833H03204 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 02:03:03 -0600 Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:02:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Another virus I got this one also, but McAfee called it "Win32.Magistr.B"I went to McAfee's AVERT page to get some info on it. It has severaldifferent names depending on which anti-virus program you use.See the following for more info: http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99199 Shane Rich Jezioro wrote: Interesting: I got the same one but norton said it wasW32 Magistr 39921@mmvirus. I wonder what the difference was?Rich Jezioro At 11:15 AM 12/1/01, Onis Cogburn wrote: Heads up guys! I just received another virus email. The antivirusprogram called it Win32.Magistr.29188. The text is: "This page was created using tables. To change the way the columnslook, select the cells you want to change and use the options on theTable menu.Type some text.AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined." Sender name is brian sturrock and the enclosure is CLICK.BAT. email name: To provide a link to another Regards,Onis from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Dec 2 04:20:09 2001 fB2AK7H06041 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 04:20:07 -0600 fB2AJqe74691; Subject: Re: Bent Ferrule Actually, it might be sort of interesting to see how it would go with the"mandrills" as well, Reed! Peter from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Sun Dec 2 06:54:55 2001 fB2CstH07247 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 06:54:55 -0600 fB2Csr9325038 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 07:54:54 -0500 Subject: Dave Collyer I have tryed to email you it bounced back, can you email meoff list,Tony Larson can you email meoff list, Tony Larson from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 2 08:02:26 2001 fB2E2PH07870 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 08:02:25 -0600 Sun, 2 Dec 2001 10:03:20 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Another virus Strange,I got that same one, I didn't get any warning, but didn't open theattachment, maybe that's why??Shawn Shane Person wrote: I got this one also, but McAfee called it "Win32.Magistr.B"I went to McAfee's AVERT page to get some info on it. It has severaldifferent names depending on which anti-virus program you use.See the following for more info: http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99199 Shane Rich Jezioro wrote: Interesting: I got the same one but norton said it wasW32 Magistr 39921@mmvirus. I wonder what the difference was?Rich Jezioro At 11:15 AM 12/1/01, Onis Cogburn wrote: Heads up guys! I just received another virus email. The antivirusprogram called it Win32.Magistr.29188. The text is: "This page was created using tables. To change the way the columnslook, select the cells you want to change and use the options on theTable menu.Type some text.AUTOTEXT bullet Error! AutoText entry not defined." Sender name is brian sturrock and the enclosure is CLICK.BAT. email name: To provide a link to another Regards,Onis from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 2 08:57:36 2001 fB2EvYH08629 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 08:57:35 -0600 Subject: RE: The legend continues Here is what the seller told me. I guess he WAS right, although these rodsweren't used. RAplh's story is further proof, as Taylor worked a T&T.BUT, why do people have to pull out every stop to sell a rod as good as aTaylor? They should sell themselves. It is pretty funny to me that this guyis using the the fact that Mr. Taylor refinished a Montague (at T&T) to sella rod Mr. Taylor made himself. Maybe it is becasue this rod is particularlyugly (what wraps colors! Yuck). Here was the listers reply:"Hi - thanks for the info, but I let the description in the auction as itis,because of 2 facts: Dick Spurr in his book CLASSIC BAMBOO RODMAKERSstatedonpage 76 that R.D. Taylor restorated the most rods used in the film "Ariv......" The 2nd fact is in one of my Codella's sporting catalogs is theintroduction that R. Redford ask Codella as a client by himself to help himas a classic tackle consultant and Taylors name is also in this introductionand in each Codellas catalog from this time Taylor is described as the onewho..." Oh well, I am going outside now to try shadow casting with my Flash.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: The legend continuesFor some reason, the name Montegue stucknPatricks mind,and he approached Thomas and Thomas to see if they have some Montegueshe could get for the film. T and T indicated that they had nothing atthe time, but that they would find a couple and restore them forPatrick. When the rods came, the casting doubles had a hard time doingthe exhibition type of casting with the cane, and so Patrick approachedWalton Powell. from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Dec 2 09:11:33 2001 fB2FBXH08965 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:11:33 -0600 Sun, 2 Dec 2001 07:11:27 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: The legend continues FILETIME=[9D3AB460:01C17B43] Another source to check with would be Jason Borger. His father, Gary, to=ld me that Jason was doing the casting whenever you could not see the fac=e of the caster in the film. I expect he would have paid attention to wh=at he was casting with. I used to have Jason's email address when he was=editor of The Loop, the FFF casting instructor's news letter, but I can'=t find it now. The current editor is Macauley Lord and his email address=is: macauley@ime.net; phone 207-729-3737. He could probably forwardan=info request to Jason. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The legend continues I believe it was Doug Kulick at Kane Klassics. M-D Well, the legend of the River Runs Through it rods continues. I know it was Walt Powell's hexagraph rods, but here is another slant. This makes at least 3 other guys who are claimed to have had a hand in the Movie rods. JohnPickard, Bob Taylor, and someone I just cannot recall right now. Anothersource= fo= Fr=om: Jojo DeLancier Sent:= be=lieve it was Doug Kulick at Kane Klassics.M-DFrom: "BobM= legend o= Powell's hexagraph rods, but here is another slant. This makes atlea= cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&i= from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 2 09:19:28 2001 fB2FJRH10086 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:19:27 -0600 helo=default) id 16AYOs-000047-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 10:19:27 -0500 Subject: Re: The legend continues Sounds as though Dick Spurr and Len Codella are more responsible for thecontinuing hype, as the man selling that rod is from Germany, and it appearsthat all he was doing was relying on what information he could find. Thewraps are horrid, though. Perhaps it was a customer's request? M-D Here is what the seller told me. I guess he WAS right, although these rodsweren't used. RAplh's story is further proof, as Taylor worked a T&T.BUT, why do people have to pull out every stop to sell a rod as good as aTaylor? They should sell themselves. It is pretty funny to me that this guy is using the the fact that Mr. Taylor refinished a Montague (at T&T) to sell a rod Mr. Taylor made himself. Maybe it is becasue this rod is particularly ugly (what wraps colors! Yuck). Here was the listers reply:"Hi - thanks for the info, but I let the description in the auction as itis,because of 2 facts: Dick Spurr in his book CLASSIC BAMBOO RODMAKERSstatedonpage 76 that R.D. Taylor restorated the most rods used in the film "Ariv......" The 2nd fact is in one of my Codella's sporting catalogs is the introduction that R. Redford ask Codella as a client by himself to help him as a classic tackle consultant and Taylors name is also in this introduction and in each Codellas catalog from this time Taylor is described as the onewho..." Oh well, I am going outside now to try shadow casting with my Flash.Best regards,Bob From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: The legend continuesFor some reason, the name Monteguestuck n Patricks mind,and he approached Thomas and Thomas to see if they have someMontegueshe could get for the film. T and T indicated that they had nothing atthe time, but that they would find a couple and restore them forPatrick. When the rods came, the casting doubles had a hard time doingthe exhibition type of casting with the cane, and so Patrick approachedWalton Powell. from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Dec 2 09:54:50 2001 fB2FsoH11055 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 09:54:50 -0600 by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 10:52:39 -0500 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: The legend continues List et al I met Jason Borger in 1997 at the International Fly Tackle Dealer Show =in Denver, CO. I was introduced to Jason via some mutual friends, and =was fortunate to be able to spend some quality time with Jason there one =evening. I did ask Jason specifically as to whether or not he did the = I don't know if Jason would remember me or not, but someone could =contact him to see what kind of rods they used. I did not ask about the =rods (dumb me) Joe Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 10:10 AMSubject: Re: The legend continues Another source to check with would be Jason Borger. His father, Gary, =told me that Jason was doing the casting whenever you could not see the =face of the caster in the film. I expect he would have paid attention =to what he was casting with. I used to have Jason's email address when =he was editor of The Loop, the FFF casting instructor's news letter, but =I can't find it now. The current editor is Macauley Lord and his email =address is: macauley@ime.net; phone 207-729-3737. He could probably =forward an info request to Jason. ----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancierSent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 9:29 PM Subject: Re: The legend continues I believe it was Doug Kulick at Kane Klassics. M-D From: "Bob Maulucci" Well, the legend of the River Runs Through it rods continues. I =know itwasWalt Powell's hexagraph rods, but here is another slant. This =makes atleast3 other guys who are claimed to have had a hand in the Movie rods. =JohnPickard, Bob Taylor, and someone I just cannot recall right now.= List et al I met Jason Borger in 1997 at the International = friends, and was fortunate to be able to spend some quality time with = I don't know if Jason would remember me or not,= ask about the rods (dumb me) Joe other....."What a Great Life". ----- Original Message ----- John = group Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001= AMSubject: Re: The legend =continues He could probably forward an info request to Jason. ----- Original Message ----- Jojo DeLancierSent: Saturday, December 01, = PM groupSubject: Re: The legend =continues hexagraph rods, but here is another slant. This makes = =http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Sun Dec 2 10:20:48 2001 fB2GKlH11573 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 10:20:47 -0600 Sun, 02 Dec 2001 08:20:43 PST Subject: Re: The legend continues Thanks Ralph for the clarification. It's funny theywent to the trouble of painting hexagraph rods asopposed to any other painted graphite rod. I guessthere was some effort to get the shape right, butnowhere in the film is the shape of the bamboodiscernable, even with the one and only close up whereMr. McClain is teaching his kids to cast with themetronome and the camera zooms in on his gloved hand. Anyway, my curiousity is satisfied. I enjoyed the movie. One of my favorite lines was thereference by a Presbyterian that a Methodist wasmerely a Baptist who could read. Chris --- Ralph Moon wrote: I guess that I should have addressed the rod issue alittle more indepth. The producer Patrick Markey, came to me andasked what type ofrods I thought that the McClains would have used. Itold him thatMontegue and South Bends were very popular in theWest, but that I wouldhave thought that they might have gone to somethingbetter, HeddonGranger etc. For some reason, the name Monteguestuck n Patricks mind,and he approached Thomas and Thomas to see if theyhave some Montegueshe could get for the film. T and T indicated thatthey had nothing atthe time, but that they would find a couple andrestore them forPatrick. When the rods came, the casting doubleshad a hard time doingthe exhibition type of casting with the cane, and soPatrick approachedWalton Powell. Walton had just gotten the license they were traditional graphite black. Walt toldPatrick, no problem andwent to the hardware store and bought some pant hadpersonally paintedthe rods to simulate bamboo. Patrick who was theco-producer withRobert Redford, never mentioned any other attemptsto obtain rods otherthan I have just outlined. That does notnecessarily mean that hedidn't, simply that I do not know. Knowing theproduction staff, I canassure you that any advisors were mentioned in thescreen credits, andit would be my opinion that if someone failed to bementioned, he failedto do any thing with the film --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from jerryy@webtv.net Sun Dec 2 10:26:26 2001 fB2GQPH11775 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 10:26:25 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 08:26:21 -0800 (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA20864; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 08:26:17 - ETAsAhRvn4AcAFGq8QIsnl5NlGxwlYUUSwIUUY99rSq+6dwn8yjvGL56rGjd4Jw= Subject: Edwards Node Spacing Have split, straightened and pressed the nodes for an Edwards 8 ft.model #50. It suddenly occured to me that I had no idea what kind ofnode spacing Edwards used. Have only built two quads before and I useda spiral spacing and it seemed to work well. Strips are 6 ft. long andgood spacing so I can probably do any arrangement. Please and thanks, Jerry Young from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Dec 2 11:07:11 2001 fB2H7AH12401 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:07:10 -0600 fB2H6eY01501; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:06:40 -0600 Subject: Re: The legend continues Joe,I tie at the shows with Jason and Gary both. Theseare fine people.Never thought to ask Jason about the movie. Weboth tie for Gudebrod and I have tied with him andhis dad the last three years at the Salt lake Cityshow.If I think about it in January at the Somersetshow I will ask him about it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bamboo Joe wrote: List et al I met Jason Borger in 1997 at theInternational Fly Tackle Dealer Show in Denver,CO. I was introduced to Jason via some mutualfriends, and was fortunate to be able to spendsome quality time with Jason there one evening.I did ask Jason specifically as to whether ornot he did the casting for the movie. And hereplied in the affirmative. I don't know ifJason would remember me or not, but someonecould contact him to see what kind of rods theyused. I did not ask about the rods (dumbme) Joe ================================================= Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with aBamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a GreatLife". ----- Original Message -----From: John Long discussion groupSent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 10:10AMSubject: Re: The legend continuesAnother source to check with would beJason Borger. His father, Gary, toldme that Jason was doing the castingwhenever you could not see the face ofthe caster in the film. I expect hewould have paid attention to what hewas casting with. I used to haveJason's email address when he waseditor of The Loop, the FFF castinginstructor's news letter, but I can'tfind it now. The current editor isMacauley Lord and his email addressis: macauley@ime.net; phone207-729-3737. He could probablyforward an info request toJason. John ----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancierSent: Saturday, December 01,2001 9:29 PM groupSubject: Re: The legendcontinuesI believe it was DougKulick at Kane Klassics. M-D From: "Bob Maulucci" Well, the legend of theRiver Runs Through it rodscontinues. I know itwasWalt Powell's hexagraphrods, but here is anotherslant. This makes atleast3 other guys who areclaimed to have had a handin the Movie rods. JohnPickard, Bob Taylor, andsomeone I just cannot recallright now. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1040509884 from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 2 11:31:52 2001 fB2HVoH12979 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:31:51 -0600 Subject: RE: Edwards Node Spacing Hi Jerry:The rod I have (spinning) is a 1324 spiral, with the nodes about an inchapart, about 5 inches for the whole span. I think a spiral was used on thefly rods too.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Edwards Node Spacing Have split, straightened and pressed the nodes for an Edwards 8 ft.model #50. It suddenly occured to me that I had no idea what kind ofnode spacing Edwards used. Have only built two quads before and I useda spiral spacing and it seemed to work well. Strips are 6 ft. long andgood spacing so I can probably do any arrangement. Please and thanks, Jerry Young from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Dec 2 11:41:37 2001 fB2HfbH13294 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:41:37 -0600 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:41:31 -0500 Subject: Denver Dave Sorry for the bandwidth.Dave could you please e-mail me. Mail to you is bouncing.Thanks,Mike Shay Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from ldavis@coweblink.net Sun Dec 2 12:16:15 2001 fB2IGDH13975 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:16:14 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 11:13:03 -0700 MST Subject: Denver Dave email I live west of Denver and in today's Denver Post read that "71,000 lose Netaccess in Colorado". About 850,000 customers nationwide of AT&TBroadbandlost access when EciteAtHome voided it's contract. Denver Dave was with swbell.net, maybe he was affected. Lowell from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 2 12:38:43 2001 fB2IcgH14657 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:38:42 -0600 2 Dec 2001 13:23:07 -0500 Subject: EC Powell Could someone explain the methodology behind the Powell straight taperdesigns. How did he determine taper and what formulae did he use whenstarting with a given tip dimension? I would greatly appreciate it, as I amtrying to figure soemthing out and would like to compare it to the Powellmethod. Thanks,Bob from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 2 12:41:16 2001 fB2IfFH14851 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:41:15 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Denver Dave email List,Dave emailed me last week and asked me to change his link on my websitebecause his ISP had filed bankruptcy. His new website address ishttp://www.denverdave.net and I THINK his new email address issplitcane@home.net If you can't contact him through that address, go tohis new web address and see if there is an email there... I would do thelegwork for you on it, but guys, it's lunch time at Mom's house and she'ddoing Southern Fried Yardbird, Home made yeast rolls, taters, gravy, hominyand iced tea so sweet it'll throw you into a coma, and I'm heading that wayright after I hit the "Send" button... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Denver Dave email I live west of Denver and in today's Denver Post read that "71,000 lose Net access in Colorado". About 850,000 customers nationwide of AT&TBroadbandlost access when EciteAtHome voided it's contract. Denver Dave was with swbell.net, maybe he was affected. Lowell from hartzell@easystreet.com Sun Dec 2 13:26:28 2001 fB2JQSH15790 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:26:28 -0600 fB2JQO623470; Subject: Re: EC Powell --------------DA0257493DE6BAF827BC299A Bob,Powell's "straight tapers" were known as "B's". To get a B9, for instance,the measurement of each strip at six inch intervals would be increased .009inches. Thus a rod tip for a B9 measuring .063 at the tip would measure.081at six inches and so on up the rod. This was his most popular formulation. Ifyou would like more informantion on his other tapers go to my article in ThePlaning Form #54, Nov. Dec. 1998Ed Hartzell Bob Maulucci wrote: Could someone explain the methodology behind the Powell straight taperdesigns. How did he determine taper and what formulae did he use whenstarting with a given tip dimension? I would greatly appreciate it, as I amtrying to figure soemthing out and would like to compare it to the Powellmethod. Thanks,Bob --------------DA0257493DE6BAF827BC299A Bob, To get a B9, for instance, the measurement of each strip at six inchintervals measuring informantion #54, Nov. Dec. 1998Ed Hartzell Bob Maulucci wrote:Could someone explain the methodology behind thePowell straight taperdesigns. How did he determine taper and what formulae did he use whenstarting with a given tip dimension? I would greatly appreciate it,as I amtrying to figure soemthing out and would like to compare it to thePowellmethod. Thanks,Bob --------------DA0257493DE6BAF827BC299A-- from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 2 13:44:31 2001 fB2JiVH16301 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:44:31 -0600 helo=0zlaw.ix.netcom.com) id 16AcXM-00007Z-00; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 14:44:29 -0500 Subject: Virus Checking --=====================_5999040==_.ALT As a long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and every one of the virus problems that we've had. I just upgraded to the latest version of Norton SystemWorks which includes the latest version of Norton Anti-Virus. Since so doing, I get a message each time SEND an e-mail stating that the message I am sending is "virus-free" I don't have enough experience with this version yet to know if this is effective in stopping the promulgation of a particular virus, but since I have always upgraded to the most current software versions -- and have been very regular (like once a week) in updating to the most current virus definitions -- I have been spared from ALL of the problems that others on this list have been confronted with. If we're going to choose to be involved with lists like this -- and I am on several others as well -- I think this type of vigilance -- both in keeping current with the versions of our anti-virus software plus their anti-virus definitions -- is what we owe each other in terms of respectful protection vendors are very comparable. I appreciate all of the warnings each of you have provided but those warnings are like "closing the barn door after the horse has been stolen". Let's all be as pro-active as possible with this on-going problem -- not reactive. My $.02 worth............... f. _________________________ Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 Home: (717) 732-5050Fax: (717) 732-2414 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! --=====================_5999040==_.ALT As a long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and every one of the version of Norton SystemWorks which includes the latest version of Norton SEND an e-mail stating that the message I amsending this version yet to know if this is effective in stopping thepromulgation of a particular virus, but since I have always upgraded tothe most current software versions -- and have been very regular (likeonce a week) in updating to the most current virus definitions -- I havebeen spared from ALL of the problems that others on this list have been If we're going to choose to be involved with lists like this -- and I amon several others as well -- I think this type of vigilance -- both inkeeping current with the versions of our anti-virus software plus theiranti-virus definitions -- is what we owe each other in terms of appreciate all of the warnings each of you have provided but thosewarnings are like "closing the barn door after the horse has been Let's all be as pro-active as possible with this on-going problem -- notreactive.My $.02 worth............... _________________________FredBohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 MAKEIT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! --=====================_5999040==_.ALT-- from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sun Dec 2 14:01:31 2001 fB2K1UH16969 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:01:31 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: The legend continues Jason Borger did a Casting demo here a Wichita kansas a couple years ago,and he said all the casting he done, was used with a IM6 graphite Winstonrod and also he had a Custom Flyreel made special for him.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The legend continues Thanks Ralph for the clarification. It's funny theywent to the trouble of painting hexagraph rods asopposed to any other painted graphite rod. I guessthere was some effort to get the shape right, butnowhere in the film is the shape of the bamboodiscernable, even with the one and only close up whereMr. McClain is teaching his kids to cast with themetronome and the camera zooms in on his gloved hand. Anyway, my curiousity is satisfied. I enjoyed the movie. One of my favorite lines was thereference by a Presbyterian that a Methodist wasmerely a Baptist who could read. Chris --- Ralph Moon wrote: I guess that I should have addressed the rod issue alittle more indepth. The producer Patrick Markey, came to me andasked what type ofrods I thought that the McClains would have used. Itold him thatMontegue and South Bends were very popular in theWest, but that I wouldhave thought that they might have gone to somethingbetter, HeddonGranger etc. For some reason, the name Monteguestuck n Patricks mind,and he approached Thomas and Thomas to see if theyhave some Montegueshe could get for the film. T and T indicated thatthey had nothing atthe time, but that they would find a couple andrestore them forPatrick. When the rods came, the casting doubleshad a hard time doingthe exhibition type of casting with the cane, and soPatrick approachedWalton Powell. Walton had just gotten the license they were traditional graphite black. Walt toldPatrick, no problem andwent to the hardware store and bought some pant hadpersonally paintedthe rods to simulate bamboo. Patrick who was theco-producer withRobert Redford, never mentioned any other attemptsto obtain rods otherthan I have just outlined. That does notnecessarily mean that hedidn't, simply that I do not know. Knowing theproduction staff, I canassure you that any advisors were mentioned in thescreen credits, andit would be my opinion that if someone failed to bementioned, he failedto do any thing with the film --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 2 14:11:38 2001 fB2KBbH17509 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:11:37 -0600 helo=default) id 16Acxb-0005Sg-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 15:11:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Virus Checking Sage advice, Fred. One of the best ways to be proactive is: DON'T OPEN = M-D As a long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and every one of =the virus problems that we've had. I just upgraded to the latest =version of Norton SystemWorks which includes the latest version of =Norton Anti- Virus. Since so doing, I get a message each time SEND an =e-mail stating that the message I am sending is "virus-free" I don't =have enough experience with this version yet to know if this is =effective in stopping the promulgation of a particular virus, but since =I have always upgraded to the most current software versions -- and have =been very regular (like once a week) in updating to the most current =virus definitions -- I have been spared from ALL of the problems that = If we're going to choose to be involved with lists like this -- and I =am on several others as well -- I think this type of vigilance -- both =in keeping current with the versions of our anti-virus software plus =their anti-virus definitions -- is what we owe each other in terms of =respectful protection for each other. I prefer Norton, but I'm sure =MacAffee and the other major vendors are very comparable. I appreciate =all of the warnings each of you have provided but those warnings are = Let's all be as pro-active as possible with this on-going problem -- =not reactive. My $.02 worth............... f. _________________________ Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 Home: (717) 732-5050Fax: (717) 732-2414 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! Sage advice, Fred. Oneof = M-D Fred= long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and every one of the = SystemWorks which includes the latest version of Norton = Since so doing, I get a message each time SEND an= enough experience with this version yet to know if this is effective = stopping the promulgation of a particular virus, but since I have = upgraded to the most current software versions -- and have been very = (like once a week) in updating to the most current virus definitions = been spared from ALL of the problems that others on this list have = lists like this -- and I am on several others as well -- I think this = vigilance -- both in keeping current with the versions of our = software plus their anti-virus definitions -- is what we owe each = appreciate all of the warnings each of you have provided but those = are like "closing the barn door after the horse has been = Let's all be as pro-active as possible with this on-going = = _________________________Fred = 2414MAKE IT = DAY =!!!!!! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Dec 2 15:28:39 2001 fB2LScH20551 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:28:39 -0600 (authenticated) Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:28:18 -0800 Subject: Re: The legend continues --------------B86C156942D3519DA614FA1C Chris McDowell wrote: I enjoyed the movie. One of my favorite lines was thereference by a Presbyterian that a Methodist wasmerely a Baptist who could read. Chris, Thanks [:-)] . To turn that around, if a Baptist is just aMethodist who can't read, then Prebyterian is just aBaptist who moved to town. And the list goes on and on...An Episcopalian is just a Methodist who went to school, etc. Sorry this is off subject... I will not carry on thisline of thought... (smiles everywhere) Harry Boyd, PastorFirst Baptist ChurchWinnsboro, Louisiana--Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------B86C156942D3519DA614FA1C Chris McDowell wrote: was thereference by a Presbyterian that a Methodist wasmerely a Baptist who could read.Chris, Episcopalianis just a Methodist who went to school, etc. Church --Harry Boyd --------------B86C156942D3519DA614FA1C-- from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 2 15:49:07 2001 fB2Ln2H21518 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:49:02 -0600 helo=0zlaw.ix.netcom.com) id 16AeTr-0007tL-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 16:49:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Virus Checking --=====================_13451206==_.ALT My last observation on this subject................. We all tend to think that these things don't happen to us -- it's always he "other person". Wether we are "sending" or "receiving". Unfortunately, when we are on a list, each of us is "the other person" -- sometimes "sending", sometimes "receiving". Not opening attachments is very important, but my AV protection doesn't give me the option of opening an infected attachment -- it "fixes" it, or "quarantines", as it comes in -- before I even have the opportunely to open it. That seems to be the advantage of "up-to-date protection" -- current AV software versions -- (along with the up-dated definitions -- cannot ignore that aspect of this thing.). Additionally, the "scan before I send" feature appears to give everyone else even further protection -- from me and a problem I maycreate. My last "soap-box" appearance for a while. f. At 02:08 PM 12/2/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Sage advice, Fred. One of the best ways to be proactive is: DON'T OPEN THE ATTACHMENTS in the first place. M-DFrom: Fred Bohls As a long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and every one of the virus problems that we've had. I just upgraded to the latest version of Norton SystemWorks which includes the latest version of Norton Anti-Virus. Since so doing, I get a message each time SEND an e-mail stating that the message I am sending is "virus-free" I don't have enough experience with this version yet to know if this is effective in stopping the promulgation of a particular virus, but since I have always upgraded to the most current software versions -- and have been very regular (like once a week) in updating to the most current virus definitions -- I have been spared from ALL of the problems that others on this list have been confronted with. If we're going to choose to be involved with lists like this -- and I am on several others as well -- I think this type of vigilance -- both in keeping current with the versions of our anti-virus software plus their anti-virus definitions -- is what we owe each other in terms of respectful protection for each other. I prefer Norton, but I'm sure MacAffee and the other major vendors are very comparable. I appreciate all of the warnings each of you have provided but those warnings are like "closing the barn door after the horse has been stolen". Let's all be as pro-active as possible with this on-going problem -- not reactive. My $.02 worth............... f. _________________________ Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 Home: (717) 732-5050Fax: (717) 732-2414 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! _________________________ Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 Home: (717) 732-5050Fax: (717) 732-2414 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! --=====================_13451206==_.ALT My last observation on this subject.................We all tend to think that these things don't happen to us -- it's always of us is "the other person" -- sometimes "sending", important, but my AV protection doesn't give me the option of opening aninfected attachment -- it "fixes" it, or"quarantines", as it comes in -- before I even have the "up-to-date protection" -- current AV software versions -- feature appears to give everyone else even further protection -- from meand a problem I may create.My last "soap-box" appearance for a while. At 02:08 PM 12/2/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:Sage advice, Fred.One of the best ways to be proactive is: DON'T OPEN THE in the first place. M-D From: Fred Bohls As a long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and every one of the Norton SystemWorks which includes the latest version of Norton Anti- an e-mail stating that the message I am sending is "virus- to know if this is effective in stopping the promulgation of a particular virus,but since I have always upgraded to the most current software versions --and have been very regular (like once a week) in updating to the mostcurrent virus definitions -- I have been spared from ALL of the problems that If we're going to choose to be involved with lists like this -- and I am onseveral others as well -- I think this type of vigilance -- both in keepingcurrent with the versions of our anti-virus software plus their anti- virusdefinitions -- is what we owe each other in terms of respectful protection each of you have provided but those warnings are like "closing the barn Let's all be as pro-active as possible with this on-going problem -- notreactive. My $.02 worth............... _________________________ Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! _________________________Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! --=====================_13451206==_.ALT-- from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sun Dec 2 17:02:41 2001 fB2N2eH23663 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:02:41 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.47548 secs); 02 Dec 200123:02:40 -0000 Subject: Re: Edwards Node Spacing Checked the Quads I have (Edward#41, #42 And #43) All have the SpiralnodesBob spoke of. One inch or so apart spiraled around. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Jerry:The rod I have (spinning) is a 1324 spiral, with the nodes about an inchapart, about 5 inches for the whole span. I think a spiral was used on thefly rods too.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:26 AM Subject: Edwards Node Spacing Have split, straightened and pressed the nodes for an Edwards 8 ft.model #50. It suddenly occured to me that I had no idea what kind ofnode spacing Edwards used. Have only built two quads before and I useda spiral spacing and it seemed to work well. Strips are 6 ft. long andgood spacing so I can probably do any arrangement. Please and thanks, Jerry Young from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Dec 2 17:07:29 2001 fB2N7PH23967 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:07:29 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Tony Spezio Tony, Can you please contact me offlist. I lost your email address. Thanks,Randall R. Gregory NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Aluminum tubes These tubes are made at a small cottage industry in Libby Montana. The lady who makes them will do just about anything you ask her to do. I use acordura covered PVC tube leather covered ends with the persons nameembroidered on the end. The tube has a separate compartment for eachsection. the tips of the sections just peek out of the end of the tube when you unzip the top. Contact me off list and I'll send a picture. No finacial interest etc. The low price will surprise youContact Lias Bardole at www.aladysangle.com/usa.htmDave -----Original Message-----From: RMargiotta@aol.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Friday, November 30, 2001 6:37 PMSubject: Re: Aluminum tubes Los Pinos Rods has tubes in 1 7/8" diameter. They have a black "krinkle"coating, are reasonably priced, and are perfect for 3/2 rods: http://www.flyrodcrafters.com/ They also have 2 1/8" tubes. --Rich from channer@frontier.net Sun Dec 2 17:42:30 2001 fB2NgKH24842 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:42:21 -0600 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:54:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Virus Checking Guys;I really haven't a clue what you all are talking about. My wife has someNorton something or other running on this thing and I have never seenone of the posts that have been mentioned as having a virus attached.john from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Dec 2 17:58:51 2001 fB2NwiH25392 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:58:45 -0600 Subject: Rod Identification Guys, Saw a rod the other day and I'm hoping someone can tell me something aboutit. Was 8'6" 3 pc c/w 2 tips. No marking on case. The bamboo had the following on the rod shaft about 4" about the handle. Courtney Ryley Cooper - Premier on one flat and Doublebuilt on another Rod furnishings were: Aluminum downlocking reel seat that was "blackened" Black Snakes Blued ferrules step down Any ideas? regards, Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from beadman@mac.com Sun Dec 2 18:02:39 2001 fB302cH25646 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:02:38 -0600 Subject: Lost email address? If you need a list member's email address, send a message to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and in the text part of the message, put review rodmakers and in a couple of minutes, you'll receive a message from the listserv computer that has ALL of the list members, and their email addresses. Claude from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 2 18:50:39 2001 fB30oYH26605 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:50:34 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: A soldiers Christmas Poem All,I am sorry for the bandwidth, but please could you take a moment to readthefollowing, it is written from a Canadian soldiers point of view, but it pertainstoall militaries of the world.It moved me to tears as I sit here at home, a Canadian soldier myself, andI felta sense of pride as well as one of shame for being able to sit here enjoyingthecomforts of home and family, conversing with you all.I hope that one day people around the world will see these men and women they are and not just criticize the candy coated side of military life, or thenegative press we all get from time to time. As we all sit safely at homethese menand women will be away six months...a year.... two or three years at a time,missingChristmas with their families, birthdays, anniversaries, births, firststeps/wordsand deaths.I will indeed be thankful this Christmas, I will be saying a prayer for friendsand comrades that won't have the same luxury, I hope you will all do thesame,ShawnPineo TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS,HE LIVED ALL ALONE,IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OFPLASTER AND STONE. I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEYWITH PRESENTS TO GIVE,AND TO SEE JUST WHOIN THIS HOME DID LIVE. I LOOKED ALL ABOUT,A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE,NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS,NOT EVEN A TREE. NO STOCKING BY MANTLE,JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND,ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURESOF FAR DISTANT LANDS. WITH MEDALS AND BADGES,AWARDS OF ALL KINDS,A SOBER THOUGHTCAME THROUGH MY MIND. IT WAS DARK AND DREARY,I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER,ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING,SILENT, ALONE,CURLED UP ON THE FLOORIN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE,THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER,NOT HOW I PICTUREDA CANADIAN SOLDIER. WAS THIS THE HERO OF WHOM I'D JUST READ?CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, THE FLOOR FOR A BED?I REALIZED THE FAMILIESTHAT I SAW THIS NIGHT,OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERSWHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. SOON ROUND THE WORLD,THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY,AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATEA BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOMEACH MONTH OF THE YEAR,BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS,LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE. I COULDN'T HELP WONDERHOW MANY LAY ALONE,ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVEIN A LAND FAR from HOME. THE VERY THOUGHTBROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE,I DROPPED TO MY KNEESAND STARTED TO CRY. THE SOLDIER AWAKENEDAND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE,"SANTA DON'T CRY,THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM,I DON'T ASK FOR MORE,MY LIFE IS MY GOD,MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVERAND DRIFTED TO SLEEP,I COULDN'T CONTROL IT,I CONTINUED TO WEEP. I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS,SO SILENT AND STILLAND WE BOTH SHIVERED from THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVEON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT,THIS GUARDIAN OF HONORSO WILLING TO FIGHT. THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER,WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE,WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA,IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT."MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." This poem was written by a Soldier stationed in Saudi Arabia. The following is his request. I think it is reasonable..... PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as manypeople as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due toourCanadian service men and women for ourbeing able to celebrate these festivities. Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Make people stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificedthemselves plant this small seed. from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Dec 2 19:11:30 2001 fB31BQH27573 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:11:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Lost email address? In a message dated 12/2/2001 4:03:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, beadman@mac.com writes: If you need a list member's email address, send a message to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and in the text part of the message, put review rodmakers and in a couple of minutes, you'll receive a message from the listserv computer that has ALL of the list members, and their email addresses. Claude If this is reply to me specifically, I apologize. I am aware of rodmakers attributes, but as Dave had an item on e-bay I was interested in, along with the fact that I have a link to his web page that was no longer functional, I wanted to contact him by whatever current means possible.Sorry again for the bandwidth,Mike ShayMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ In a message dated12/2/2001 4:03:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, beadman@mac.comwrites: If you need a listmember's email address, send a message to and in the text part of the message, put and in a couple of minutes, you'll receive a message from the listserv computer that has ALL of the list members, and their email addresses. Claude If this is reply to me specifically, I apologize. I am aware of rodmakersattributes, but as Dave had an item on e-bay I was interested in, along withthe fact that I have a link to his web page that was no longer functional, Iwanted to contact him by whatever current means possible.Sorry again for the bandwidth,Mike ShayMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from irish-george@chartermi.net Sun Dec 2 19:21:04 2001 fB31L3H28263 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:21:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Virus Checking I, too, have always run updated anti-virus software and have never had =any problems. Symantec's (Norton) yearly subscription to anti-virus =updates is $9.95...I can't think of a better way to spend ten bucks. =The software itself was free with my Soyo motherboard, so the updates =are the only expense. Georgepracticing safe hex(adecimal) Subject: Virus Checking As a long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and every one of =the virus problems that we've had. I just upgraded to the latest =version of Norton SystemWorks which includes the latest version of =Norton Anti- Virus. Since so doing, I get a message each time SEND an =e-mail stating that the message I am sending is "virus-free" I don't =have enough experience with this version yet to know if this is =effective in stopping the promulgation of a particular virus, but since =I have always upgraded to the most current software versions -- and have =been very regular (like once a week) in updating to the most current =virus definitions -- I have been spared from ALL of the problems that = If we're going to choose to be involved with lists like this -- and I =am on several others as well -- I think this type of vigilance -- both =in keeping current with the versions of our anti-virus software plus =their anti-virus definitions -- is what we owe each other in terms of =respectful protection for each other. I prefer Norton, but I'm sure =MacAffee and the other major vendors are very comparable. I appreciate =all of the warnings each of you have provided but those warnings are = Let's all be as pro-active as possible with this on-going problem -- =not reactive. My $.02 worth............... f. _________________________ Fred Bohls3519 Ada DriveMechanicsburg, PA 17050-2213 Home: (717) 732-5050Fax: (717) 732-2414 MAKE IT A GREAT DAY !!!!!! I, too, have always run updated = to anti-virus updates is $9.95...I can't think of a better way to spend = updates are the only expense. Georgepracticing safe =hex(adecimal) ----- Original Message ----- Fred= Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001= PMSubject: Virus CheckingAs a long-time lurker I have been subjected to each and = version of Norton SystemWorks which includes the latest version of = SEND an e-mail stating that the message I am = to know if this is effective in stopping the promulgation of a = virus, but since I have always upgraded to the most current software = -- and have been very regular (like once a week) in updating to the = current virus definitions -- I have been spared from ALL of the = choose to be involved with lists like this -- and I am on several = well -- I think this type of vigilance -- both in keeping current with = versions of our anti-virus software plus their anti-virus definitions = what we owe each other in terms of respectful protection for each = I prefer Norton, but I'm sure MacAffee and the other major vendors are = but those warnings are like "closing the barn door after the horse has = = _________________________Fred = 2414MAKE IT = DAY =!!!!!! from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 2 19:22:11 2001 fB31MBH28405 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:22:11 -0600 helo=default) id 16Aho9-0008Sp-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 02 Dec 2001 20:22:10 -0500 Subject: Was Lost email address? Now Denver Dave I just got an e-mail from Dave, as I suppose some of you have. Dave's =web site, e-mail, everything is off-line due to a court ruling in =California involving Excite. As of 7AM Saturday morning 4 million users =got the plug pulled on them. How considerate.If you need to contact Dave here's his latest e-mail Alphasign@aol.comI am aware of rodmakers attributes, but as Dave had an item on e-bay I =was interested in, along with the fact that I have a link to his web =page that was no longer functional, I wanted to contact him by whatever =current means possible.Sorry again for the bandwidth,Mike ShayMike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA I just got an e-mail from = suppose some of you have. Dave's web site, e-mail, everything is = a court ruling in California involving Excite. As of 7AM Saturday = considerate.If you need to contact= his latest e-mail Alphasign@aol.comI am aware of rodmakers = Dave had an item on e-bay I was interested in, along with the fact = a link to his web page that was no longer functional, I wanted to = CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ = from beadman@mac.com Sun Dec 2 19:29:23 2001 fB31TMH29004 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:29:22 -0600 ;Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:29:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Lost email address? 1204779538==_ma============" --============_-1204779538==_ma============ At 8:11 PM -0500 , 12/2/01, Troutgetter@aol.com wrote about Re: Lost email address?In a message dated 12/2/2001 4:03:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, beadman@mac.com writes: If you need a list member's email address, send a message to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and in the text part of the message, put review rodmakers and in a couple of minutes, you'll receive a message from thelistserv computer that has ALL of the list members, and their emailaddresses. Claude If this is reply to me specifically, I apologize. I am aware of rodmakers Not at all, Mike. Because @home.com has filed for bankruptcy and several thousand people across the country have a new (or no) email address, I just thought it would be handy for those who had forgotten the command. My own @home.com account is still functioning, but who knows how much longer. I normally send the "review rodmakers" command once a month in any case just to have the latest addresses Claude--============_-1204779538==_ma============ Re: Lost email address?At 8:11 PM -0500 , 12/2/01, Troutgetter@aol.com wrote about Re:Lost email address?In a message dated 12/2/2001 4:03:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,beadman@mac.com writes: If you need a list member's email address, send a message to and in the text part of the message, put and in a couple of minutes, you'll receive a message from thelistserv computer that has ALL of the list members, and theiremailaddresses. Claude If this is reply to me specifically, I apologize. I am aware ofrodmakers bankruptcy and several thousand people across the country have a new(or no) email address, I just thought it would be handy for those who "review rodmakers" command once a month in any case just tohave the latest addresses for people. Claude --============_-1204779538==_ma============-- from CALucker@aol.com Sun Dec 2 22:13:01 2001 fB34D0H04297 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 22:13:00 -0600 Subject: Re: EC Powell EC Powell straight tapers formulas were, for example, B9, which means adrop of 0.009 every six inches. You could have B8 1/2 or whatever. The hollwed scallops were not the same for every rod, however. Ofetn, the tip dimension was greater at the ferrule than the butt dimension. Step down ferrules were used. Bamboo usually measured 0.072 or so with the balance being PortOrford Cedar.Chris Lucker from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Dec 2 22:26:14 2001 fB34QDH04895 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 22:26:13 -0600 Sun, 2 Dec 2001 20:26:00 -0800 Subject: Fly Fishing America FILETIME=[9C8DD320:01C17BB2] Has anyone seen a recent issue of Fly Fishing America magazine? Hope it =hasn't gone down the tubes.... John Hasanyone see= John from tylertra@ticon.net Sun Dec 2 22:59:22 2001 fB34xGH06157 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 22:59:16 -0600 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 22:59:11 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: Howdy- I've been building rods since I was a little kid. I have worked w/graphite and glass. I have one cool old heddon classic bamboo rod thatbelonged to my grandfather that i'd love to rebuild. I'm just worriedabout damaging the bamboo. I have already stripped it to the blank, but Idon't know how to remove the old rod varnish without damaging the bamboo.Any suggestions?? Tyler from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Mon Dec 3 01:09:05 2001 fB3793H11338 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 01:09:04 -0600 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2001 23:08:58 -0800 Subject: Re: EC Powell I guess I don't understand. If you start at .070 and increase by .009 every6 inches, the butt of an 8' rod is only .214. A real "buggy-whip"! There must be something more to it. A swell in the butt section? I know Powell laminiated the bamboo to Port Orford Cedar - would this stiffen theaction that much? from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 3 01:14:35 2001 fB37EYH11636 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 01:14:34 -0600 helo=default) id 16AnJA-0007wf-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 02:14:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America The last issue I got was March 2001. The web site is still up, and the =archives are current up to March, with a note that says the next issue =would be May. The featured articles in the March issue aren't on the =web, though, but there are some new articles available on-line. I wasn't =around any fly shops until October, but none of them had the mag. The =web site still lists Farrow Allen as the Fly Tying Editor, but Al and =Gretchen Beatty have been doing that for a while now. I, too, hope =they've not disappeared. M-D Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 10:25 PMSubject: Fly Fishing America Has anyone seen a recent issue of Fly Fishing America magazine? Hope =it hasn't gone down the tubes.... John The last issue I got was March = site is still up, and the archives are current up to March, with a note = says the next issue would be May. The featured articles in the March = aren't on the web, though, but there are some new articles available = wasn't around any fly shops until October, but none of them had the mag. = site still lists Farrow Allen as the Fly Tying Editor, but Al and = disappeared. M-D ----- Original Message ----- John = Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001= PMSubject: Fly Fishing =America Has anyone seen a recent issue of Fly Fishing America = Hope it hasn't gone down the tubes.... John from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 3 03:01:52 2001 fB391oH13400 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 03:01:51 -0600 Subject: Hardy I just watched a very poorly copied video of the House Of Hardy setup and I have to say I'm amazed.Watching the reels being made was like watching a Morgan car being built going on the amount of double handling that goes on though Hardy do use go-nogo gauges where as Morgan never did that and measured and marked everything.I lost count of the steps in the making of a Marquis reel but it looked like no fewer than 8-10 people are involved in the making of one. All the castings are poured one at a time then set up and hand turned and measured before going on to the next stage etc. Very heavily manual.I must admit I like to know that sort of thing is still done but it does explain the price. One thing that kept sticking in my mind though was with all these people involved in making every single reel, surely somebody must have realised by now you can't palm using the Princess and thought to do something about it. [:-)] On another front there was a section on their bamboo rods.Now, sit down everybody because here it comes. Hardy use a table saw toget the strips, nothing more than a fence as you'd use to cut wood was used. In fact the anti kickback devide was removed and only the splitter was left.The culm is SAWN in half, then quarters etc. The nodes are then LINISHED flush with the bamboo. Then after the strips are more or less level (using the linisher) they're milled.There wasn't a file, heating device or any other means of torture seen on the video.The glue is a UF judging on the way it was mixed and used and it's water like nature and the binder is a 4 bobbin jobbie that looked like it needed some serious balancing.The blanks are then sanded flat then mic'd then SANDED TO DIMENSION to fir the finished dimensions.I kept thinking of TA when I was watching this. Do keep in mind though the English attitude towards this sort of thing is different to the US where any imperfections are seen as flaws where as the English tend to be more forgiving of these things and consider it all a part of the character of the item. The English prob wouldn't be as critical of sanded nodes as those in the US who press them to make them as small as possible.Any English on the list could advise here though. There was also a section on making the graphite rods and these seemed pretty good actually. This is a library copy and it's terribly badly copied (must have been done by the bamboo division of Hardy) and in PAL so I doubt it's stand converting and re copying but I'd recommend trying to see it if you can. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from Lazybee45@aol.com Mon Dec 3 03:15:07 2001 fB39F7H13735 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 03:15:07 -0600 Subject: Re: A soldiers Christmas Poem(OT) I have been inactive pretty much due to other pressing matters. but This is a good thing to have occasionally. One of the things that keeps me from unsubscribing! I had the opportunity to perform at a Christmas party for the City yesterday (our fair city of Cedar Rapids Iowa) I made balloon animals for kids of all ages. One of the officers there was in uniform as a "security" guard. He is a guy I have known for many years and he has edicated his career to the program that used to be called "Officer Friendly" before someone tried to force police departments to pay to use the name.Anyway I said that it was awful about 9-11, but if there was ANY good to come of it,it was the well deserved recognition that he and his people would finally receive.He nodded and said, "ya'know, we are not used to being the "good guys". Even the New York City Cops are heros now. Kinda weird. But it is nice!"I was surrounded by firefighters I have met and known over the years, cops, parks department, City hall, streets, and all the attendant family members. I am not used to seeing Ken, or Kent, or Steve, Luke, my wife's cousin Dick, Christy and all the other guys and gals that I know and have known over the years as "heros" Oh, they are. always have been. but they sure look normal. Ken is retiring in 4 years. could have done it 2 years ago, but likes working with kids in the police department setting. He is a grandfather. So is my brother Dave, who is in the 3rd Fleet right now. Good luck to them all! (gratutious fishing related) I am hoping that my brother can get home next spring so that I can let him fish with my cane rod that I am nearly done with.mark from Lazybee45@aol.com Mon Dec 3 03:28:37 2001 fB39SVH14075 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 03:28:36 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 04:28:19 -0500 Subject: SCORE!!!! HAH! last week while perusing the local library, i looked at their little cart of "withdrawn" materials. In there with all the books was a tape of "Lee Wulf on the Beverkill" cost me a buck! but cool video! I also picked up a couple of other video tapes (exercise bike, you won't be interested in those!) and a few books. It is set up with an "honesty box" where you drop in the "required" amount which ranges from 50 cents to a dollar or two.I am a big fan of local libraries. I have suggested several books to ours over the years and they are grateful and pleased to have suggestions from "customers" If you have a local library, I suggest talking to them if you have good books that you could donate. Suggestions for books for themto obtain, or to check for withdrawn material. Some libraries give the old books away, some toss 'em, others sell them. Most libraries have a sale of donated materials at least once a year. This is a great resource for people who have little ready cash on hand to obtain, or have the use of, books that are expensive. It is also an opportunity for the ones of us who HAVE the resources to purchase and donate materials that would be useful to others. Maybe I am odd, but I learned in Kindergarten that sharing was good. mark from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Dec 3 04:16:34 2001 fB3AGTH14643 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 04:16:33 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:17:23 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Hardy Tony,do you recall the Title of this video, when it was made or any otherdetailsthat might help me track down a copy over here??Thanks,ShawnP.S. what does LINISHED mean?? Tony Young wrote: I just watched a very poorly copied video of the House Of Hardy setup and Ihave to say I'm amazed.Watching the reels being made was like watching a Morgan car being builtgoing on the from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 3 04:33:18 2001 fB3AXHH14989 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 04:33:17 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4172. . Clean. Processed in 0.432756 secs); 03 Dec 200110:21:25 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Rod Identification Hi , Rod was manufactured by South Bend. Marty Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys, Saw a rod the other day and I'm hoping someone can tell me somethingabout it. Was 8'6" 3 pc c/w 2 tips. No marking on case.The bamboo had the following on the rod shaft about 4" about the handle. Courtney Ryley Cooper - Premier on one flat and Doublebuilt on another Rod furnishings were: Aluminum downlocking reel seat that was "blackened"Black SnakesBlued ferrules step down Any ideas? regards, Don http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 3 04:40:18 2001 fB3AeGH15261 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 04:40:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Hardy The tape was just called "The House Of Hardy". It may have been a propaganda video made for it's outlets, it had that kind of look to it.A linisher is a stationery belt sander normally used to sand steel things like knife blades, removing the dags from castings etc etc. They normally come with a sanding belt of 120 grit. Mine has 80 grit. Not normally thought of in conjunction with fine craftsman type work.The linisher actually isn't a bad idea for the dam walls and also for the nodes I guess if you don't mind them that way but what really got my attention was the sanding to reduce the rod to finished dimensions. Tony At 06:20 AM 12/3/01 -0500, Shawn Pineo wrote: Tony,do you recall the Title of this video, when it was made or any other detailsthat might help me track down a copy over here??Thanks, ShawnP.S. what does LINISHED mean?? Tony Young wrote: I just watched a very poorly copied video of the House Of Hardy setupand Ihave to say I'm amazed.Watching the reels being made was like watching a Morgan car being builtgoing on the /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Dec 3 05:38:07 2001 fB3Bc6H15929 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:38:06 -0600 fB3BbrK12898; Subject: Re: Hardy Yeas, Tony, it was a video produced by Hardy's, an "advertorial" if thereever was one. It is a view not entirely without its adherents that the advertising andpublicity department of Hardy's produced the best work ever done by thecompany in any field - and with that in mind, in my opinion, your video isprobably in mint condition. And the belt sander thingy doesn't surprise me at all! Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 3 06:18:38 2001 fB3CIaH16426 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:18:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Hardy At 10:37 PM 12/3/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Yeas, Tony, it was a video produced by Hardy's, an "advertorial" if thereever was one. It is a view not entirely without its adherents that the advertising andpublicity department of Hardy's produced the best work ever done by thecompany in any field - and with that in mind, in my opinion, your video isprobably in mint condition. Very well put Peter, the production of the video isn't that bad but the content is on the average side and as I mentioned and you alluded to the quality of the video to actually watch is poor in the extreme. I must admit to liking the looks of some of Hardy reels but I'd never own one especially considering what one costs. And the belt sander thingy doesn't surprise me at all! The bamboo rod making section was very bucolic I guess you could say in a nice sort of way. Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do, and have a good reputation while selling right next to what is technically better in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rodsI do anyhow. Tony Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Mon Dec 3 06:45:27 2001 fB3CjQH16879 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:45:27 -0600 EAA05287; Subject: Re: Rod Identification Don,I have a Courtney Riley Cooper rod also, from everything I can find =about the rod it was made by Fred DeBell form either a phillipson blank =or a W&M blank. The rod I have is a 6'6" 4wt....very fine rod..I have =fished it often enough to require refinishing twice....Contact Rick at Ricks Rods he probably has as much info has anybody....losey Don,I have a Courtney Riley Cooper rod = everything I can find about the rod it was made by Fred DeBell form = phillipson blank or a W&M blank. The rod I have is a 6'6" = rod..I have fished it often enough to require refinishing =twice....Contact Rick at Ricks Rods he probably= info has anybody....losey from aport@si.rr.com Mon Dec 3 06:51:29 2001 fB3CpPH17123 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:51:29 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 07:51:20 -0500 Subject: Another tip (Heads up Adam!) I don't know how many of you are as slow as I am, but I'll impress = I have an opaque dip tank and after dipping too many rods to count, =and usually being confounded by dipping the butts either too deeply (and =marring the cork) or not deeply enough, I decided today to tape a =toothpick to the cork so it protrudes off the end of the handle as far =as I wish to insert the rod into the varnish. When the toothpick hits =the surface (where I CAN see it whereas when the cork hits the surface I =can't) I know I'm exactly as deep as I wish to go. How could it take so =long to discover such a simple work- around?Art as slow as I am, but I'll impress you either with my great inventiveness = unbounded obtuseness. dip = after dipping too many rods to count, and usually being confounded by = the butts either too deeply (and marring the cork) or not deeply enough, = decided today to tape a toothpick to the cork so it protrudes off the = handle as far as I wish to insert the rod into the varnish. When the = hits the surface (where I CAN see it whereas when the cork hits the = can't) I know I'm exactly as deep as I wish to go. How could it take so = discover such a simple work-around?Art from aport@si.rr.com Mon Dec 3 06:56:59 2001 fB3CuxH17402 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:56:59 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 07:56:55 -0500 Subject: Whoops, Todd Sorry, Todd, the brain hiccupped and I remembered Adam as the "Tips" =maintainer.Art Sorry, Todd, the brain hiccupped and I = Adam as the "Tips" maintainer.Art from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Dec 3 07:36:57 2001 fB3DauH18378 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 07:36:57 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America John, I got a Sept. issue a few weeks ago at L.L. Beans.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ John Long wrote: Has anyone seen a recent issue of Fly Fishing America magazine? Hope it hasn't gone down the tubes.... John -- > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 3 07:52:58 2001 Received: from imo- fB3DqwH18858 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.8c.1058b91c (4207); Mon, 3 Dec Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:52:40 EST rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I talked to them a while backand they said the new issue comes out in January. I have extra copies of themag from the last two issues if anyone wants them. Just have to reimburse from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 3 08:06:56 2001 Received: from fB3E6YH39092 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 200106:06:35 -0800 Message-ID: Date:Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:03:59 -0600 From: Harry Boyd Fly Fishing America References: Content-Type: ----------FFB872DAEF8CC0812A0B4D4E Content-Type: text/plain; aren't gone... I wrote several articles for them a few years ago, back whenthey were first getting started. Finally realized that writing articles for $200each just won't pay. Bill Battles, the editor, is a nice guy. Harry JojoDeLancier wrote: The last issue I got was March 2001. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------FFB872DAEF8CC0812A0B4D4E MD, John, articles for them a few years ago, back when they were first getting Bill Battles, the editor, is a nice guy. Jojo DeLancier wrote: The lastissue I got was March 2001. -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------FFB872DAEF8CC0812A0B4D4E-- from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 08:29:42 2001 fB3ETfH20590 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:29:41 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:29:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America FILETIME=[EEA45680:01C17C06] They must have changed owners again... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America I talked to them a while back and they said the new issue comes out inJanuary. I have extra copies of the mag from the last two issues if anyonewants them. Just have to reimburse for shipping charges.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html They musthave= &=nbsp; ----- Original Message ----- From: Grh=ghlndr@aol.com Sent:Monday,= ta=lked to them a while back and they said the new issue comes out inJan= charges.Brethttp://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 08:31:11 2001 fB3EVBH20812 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:31:11 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:31:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America FILETIME=[2217E090:01C17C07] Sept. is the last issue I've seen also. Nice little mag. john ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America John,I got a Sept. issue a few weeks ago at L.L. Beans.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ John Long wrote: Has anyone seen a recent issue of Fly Fishing America magazine? Hope ithasn't gone down the tubes.... John -- Sept. isthe l= go=t a Sept. issue a few weeks ago at L.L. Beans.Bestregards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/John Long Joh= from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Dec 3 08:44:48 2001 fB3EilH21620 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:44:47 -0600 (63.228.46.16) Subject: Re: Edwards Node Spacing In light of the difficulty of straightening quads, and the general agreementthat those repairing rods do not find them broken at the nodes. I wonder ifa 2x2 stagger on a quad would make it easier to straighten?Whadaya think?Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Edwards Node Spacing Checked the Quads I have (Edward#41, #42 And #43) All have the SpiralnodesBob spoke of. One inch or so apart spiraled around. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Jerry:The rod I have (spinning) is a 1324 spiral, with the nodes about an inchapart, about 5 inches for the whole span. I think a spiral was used on the fly rods too.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:26 AM Subject: Edwards Node Spacing Have split, straightened and pressed the nodes for an Edwards 8 ft.model #50. It suddenly occured to me that I had no idea what kind ofnode spacing Edwards used. Have only built two quads before and I useda spiral spacing and it seemed to work well. Strips are 6 ft. long andgood spacing so I can probably do any arrangement. Please and thanks, Jerry Young from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 08:45:02 2001 fB3Ej1H21679 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:45:01 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 06:44:56 -0800 Subject: Re: FILETIME=[133A6AF0:01C17C09] Tyler,You can do a decent job scraping with the side of a plane blade. Just go=easy-esp. in the tip areas. Then sand lightly with 400 grit. Works for=me. ----- Original Message ----- Howdy- I've been building rods since I was a little kid. I have worked w/graphite and glass. I have one cool old heddon classic bamboo rod thatbelonged to my grandfather that i'd love to rebuild. I'm just worriedabout damaging the bamboo. I have already stripped it to the blank, but=Idon't know how to remove the old rod varnish without damaging the bamboo.Any suggestions?? Tyler Tyler, You can do a decent job scraping with the side of a plane blade. = tyler traband Sent:Mon=day, December 03, 2001 12:01 AM = buil=ding rods since I was a little kid. I have worked w/graphite and glas= it=to the blank, but Idon't know how to remove the old rod varnish with=out damaging the bamboo.Any suggestions??Tyler from dickay@alltel.net Mon Dec 3 09:18:53 2001 fB3FIqH23633 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:18:52 -0600 srv.alltel.net Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:18:49 -0600 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: The legend continues John, and All. Funny you should say this. I wish that this thread had =started a couple of days earlier. I would have asked Jason these =questions. On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borger was the guest speaker at =the Annual Banquet of the Fort Smith, Arkansas Flyfishers. His whole =talk was about the movie "A River Runs Through It". He did mention a =lot of different rod brand names and that some were painted Hexagraph =rods, made to look like bamboo. Ralph, he mentioned that in the original "Credits" he had four mentions. =However, when Columbia Pictures bought the rights to the film, his =credits were cut to two (2). He stated that at first everyone thought that it was a fishing movie. =He said that really it is a movie about relationships within a family =and that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters to the ="River" of Life. He did put on a casting demonstration in the banquet hall and even did =the "Shadow Cast" which he said has no use at all as it scares fish =rather than brings them to the rise. I will try to get his e-mail address from the individual who arranged =his engagement. Also, on Saturday Dec. 1st, Jason puton a fly tying demo and class in =the morning and a casting school in the afternoon. The weather here was =gorgous but I didn't get to go to these as I had previous commitments.Dick FuhrmanAnother source to check with would be Jason Borger. His father, Gary, =told me that Jason was doing the casting whenever you could not see the = asked Jason these questions. On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borger= painted Hexagraph rods, made to look like bamboo. Ralph, he mentioned that in the original = film, his credits were cut to two (2). He stated that at first everyone thought that it= within a family and that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the = the "River" of Life. He did put on a casting demonstration in the = I will try to get his e-mail address from the = who arranged his engagement. Also, on Saturday Dec. 1st, Jason puton a fly = weather here was gorgous but I didn't get to go to these as I had = commitments.Dick Fuhrman from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 3 09:19:46 2001 fB3FJjH23773 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:19:45 -0600 helo=default) id 16Ausc-0005P0-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:19:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America Yeah. $ 200.00 per article sounds like decent money . . . unless one has =ever written an article, then it's barely minimum wage. I suppose it =would take longer to do such a thing for a Baptist preacher, given their =propensity for dragging things out . . . endlessly droning on past the =noon hour, while lunch awaits and . . . }B^)> M-D I hope they aren't gone... I wrote several articles for them a =few years ago, back when they were first getting started. Finally =realized that writing articles for $200 each just won't pay. Bill = The last issue I got was March 2001. Yeah. $ 200.00 per articlesounds = decent money . . . unless one has ever written an article, then it's = M-D Harry= 2001. from dickay@alltel.net Mon Dec 3 09:26:47 2001 fB3FQgH24505 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:26:47 -0600 srv.alltel.net Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:26:41 -0600 Subject: Re: The legend continues Joe,I tie at the shows with Jason and Gary both. Theseare fine people. Tony, Jason was probably fishing up on the Norfolk yesterday(Sunday). BobDobbins from the Woodsman in Fort Smith has two cabins across fromPeel's.He may still be there today if he hasn't headed back to Madison, WI.Dick Fuhrman from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Dec 3 09:28:13 2001 fB3FSCH24753 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:28:12 -0600 Subject: Re: The legend continues --=====_100739320718467=_ Good Monday everyone, I tried his website at www.jasonborger.comand came up with jason@jasonborger.com hope it helpsBrad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/3/01 at 9:15 AM Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:John, and All. Funny you should say this. I wish that this thread had=started a couple of days earlier. I would have asked Jason these=questions. On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borger was the guest speaker at=the Annual Banquet of the Fort Smith, Arkansas Flyfishers. His whole talk=was about the movie "A River Runs Through It". He did mention a lot of=different rod brand names and that some were painted Hexagraph rods,made=to look like bamboo. Ralph, he mentioned that in the original "Credits" he had four mentions.=However, when Columbia Pictures bought the rights to the film, his=credits were cut to two (2). He stated that at first everyone thought that it was a fishing movie. He=said that really it is a movie about relationships within a family and=that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters to the "River" of=Life. He did put on a casting demonstration in the banquet hall and even did the="Shadow Cast" which he said has no use at all as it scares fish rather=than brings them to the rise. I will try to get his e-mail address from the individual who arranged his=engagement. Also, on Saturday Dec. 1st, Jason puton a fly tying demo and class in the=morning and a casting school in the afternoon. The weather here was=gorgous but I didn't get to go to these as I had previous commitments.Dick FuhrmanAnother source to check with would be Jason Borger. His father, Gary, told=me that Jason was doing the casting whenever you could not see the faceof=the caster in the film. --=====_100739320718467=_ Good Monday everyone, I tried his website at www.jasonborger.comand came up with jason@jasonborger.com hope it helpsBrad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********On 12/3/01 at 9:15 AM Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: have asked Jason these questions. On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borgerwas the guest speaker at the Annual Banquet of the Fort Smith, Arkansas were painted Hexagraph rods, made to look like bamboo. Ralph, he mentioned that in the original "Credits" he rights to the film, his credits were cut to two (2). He stated that at first everyone thought that it wasa within a family and that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters to the "River" of Life. He did put on a casting demonstration in thebanquet hall and even did the "Shadow Cast" which he said has no use at all as it I will try to get his e-mail address from the individual who arranged his engagement. Also, on Saturday Dec. 1st, Jason puton a fly tyingdemo weather here was gorgous but I didn't get to go to these as I had previous commitments.Dick Fuhrman could --=====_100739320718467=_-- from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 3 09:38:28 2001 fB3FcSH25592 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:38:28 -0600 helo=default) id 16AvAo-0006tK-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:38:27 -0500 Subject: Re: What about using one of the citrus strippers for the bulk of the work, =then use the scraper to get the rest? M-D Tyler,You can do a decent job scraping with the side of a plane blade. Just =go easy-esp. in the tip areas. Then sand lightly with 400 grit. Works = From: tyler traband Howdy- I've been building rods since I was a little kid. I have =worked w/graphite and glass. I have one cool old heddon classic bamboo rod =thatbelonged to my grandfather that i'd love to rebuild. I'm just =worriedabout damaging the bamboo. I have already stripped it to the =blank, but Idon't know how to remove the old rod varnish without damaging the =bamboo.Any suggestions?? Tyler What about using one of thecitrus = rest? M-D John = Tyler,You can do a decent job scraping with the side of a plane = tyler traband classic bamboo rod thatbelonged to my grandfather that i'd love = how to remove the old rod varnish without damaging the = suggestions??Tyler from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Dec 3 09:44:35 2001 fB3FiYH26141 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:44:34 -0600 fB3FiQ606792; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America --------------EEA9E25E698B66DCFA41DEFA I support my rodmaking "hobby" (i.e., justify the mill and expensiveplanes) by moonlighting writing medical/scientific content for a dot.com(yes, there are still a few around). While, on paper, they pay me muchmore than the $200/article (for 1,000 words/articles), it turns out( from my perspective) not to be such a great deal, about my minimum wagelevel. In the end, they've had to poke me pretty hard to get the lastfew out since I determined that, for the $/hour I would rather punt anddo something I enjoy, like use that mill I bought with their money... Jojo DeLancier wrote: Yeah. $ 200.00 per article sounds like decent money . . . unless onehas ever written an article, then it's barely minimum wage. I supposeit would take longer to do such a thing for a Baptist preacher, giventheir propensity for dragging things out . . . endlessly droning onpast the noon hour, while lunch awaits and . . . }B^)> M-D From: Harry Boyd MD, John, I hope they aren't gone... I wrote several articles forthem a few years ago, back when they were first gettingstarted. Finally realized that writing articles for $200each just won't pay. Bill Battles, the editor, is a niceguy. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: The last issue I got was March 2001. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------EEA9E25E698B66DCFA41DEFA I support my rodmaking "hobby" (i.e., justify the mill and expensive planes) more than the $200/article (for 1,000 words/articles), it turns out (frommy perspective) not to be such a great deal, about my minimum wage level.In the end, they've had to poke me pretty hard to get the last few outsince I determined that, for the $/hour I would rather punt and do somethingI enjoy, like use that mill I bought with their money...Jojo DeLancier wrote: per article sounds like decent money . . . unless one has ever writtenan article, then it's barely minimum wage. I suppose it would take longerto do such a thing for a Baptist preacher, given their propensity for draggingthings out . . . endlessly droning on past the noon hour, while lunch awaits D From:HarryBoyd articles for them a few years ago, back when they were first getting Bill Battles, the editor, is a nice guy. Jojo DeLancier wrote: Thelast issue I got was March 2001. -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------EEA9E25E698B66DCFA41DEFA-- from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 3 09:49:11 2001 fB3FnAH26631 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:49:10 -0600 helo=default) id 16AvLB-0004xG-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 10:49:09 -0500 Subject: Re: The legend continues If you've ever read the book, it is quite obvious that it is about =relationships, and one man's reflections on his life. M-D John, and All. Funny you should say this. I wish that this thread =had started a couple of days earlier. I would have asked Jason these =questions. SNIP He stated that at first everyone thought that it was a fishing movie. =He said that really it is a movie about relationships within a family =and that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters to the ="River" of Life. If you've ever read the book, it = obvious that it is about relationships, and one man's reflections on his = life. M-D Dick = Fuhrman asked Jason these questions. SNIP He stated that at first everyone thought that = within a family and that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the = the "River" of Life. from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 3 10:30:16 2001 fB3GUFH29155 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:30:15 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4173. . Clean. Processed in 0.557466 secs); 03 Dec 200116:30:13 -0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod Identification --------------97E9DAEA03F8F4C980F5EC3D Courtney Riley Cooper is a Debell rod. Courtney Ryley Cooper is a SouthBend. Marty Douglas Losey wrote: Don,I have a Courtney Riley Cooper rod also, from everything I canfind about the rod it was made by Fred DeBell form either a phillipsonblank or a W&M blank. The rod I have is a 6'6" 4wt....very fine rod..Ihave fished it often enough to require refinishing twice....ContactRick at Ricks Rods he probably has as much info has anybody....losey --------------97E9DAEA03F8F4C980F5EC3D Courtney Riley Cooper is a Debell rod. Courtney Ryley Cooper is a SouthBend. MartyDouglas Losey wrote: Don,Ihave a Courtney Riley Cooper rod also, from everything I can find aboutthe rod it was made by Fred DeBell form either a phillipson blank or aW&M blank. The rod I have is a 6'6" 4wt....very fine rod..I have fishedit often enough to require refinishing twice....ContactRick at Ricks Rods he probably has as much info hasanybody....losey --------------97E9DAEA03F8F4C980F5EC3D-- from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 11:12:49 2001 fB3HCmH01905 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:12:48 -0600 Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:12:47 PST Subject: RE: Edwards Node Spacing I've got a couple of Edwards Quads fly rodstemporarily in my possession and they have the spacingBob describes. Sort of 2x2, with the nodes offset byan inch or so like Bob said rather than directlyacross from each other. The pod of four nodes iswithin about a 5" span as Bob said so there is quite abit of space between node pods on the blanks. Chris --- Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Jerry:The rod I have (spinning) is a 1324 spiral, with thenodes about an inchapart, about 5 inches for the whole span. I think aspiral was used on thefly rods too.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of Jerry YoungSent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 11:26 AM Subject: Edwards Node Spacing Have split, straightened and pressed the nodes foran Edwards 8 ft.model #50. It suddenly occured to me that I had no node spacing Edwards used. Have only built twoquads before and I useda spiral spacing and it seemed to work well. Stripsare 6 ft. long andgood spacing so I can probably do any arrangement. Please and thanks, Jerry Young __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Dec 3 11:46:29 2001 fB3HkSH04415 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:46:28 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:46:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Hardy All,It's a little known and secret fact but Hardy no longer build there ownbamboo rods !Hardy have been rumoured to buy in the blanks from Chapmans of Ware andcontract out the assembly to a group of outworkers !The area designated for bamboo rod building at there factory isextremely small and all for show when the tourists are on parade .Chapmans have over the years also produced blanks for other very wellknown American manufacturers ( this is a fact and not a rumour )who havesimilarly passed off the product as their own.Tight lines........Paul Tony Young wrote: I just watched a very poorly copied video of the House Of Hardy setup and Ihave to say I'm amazed.Watching the reels being made was like watching a Morgan car being builtgoing on the amount of double handling that goes on though Hardy do usego-nogo gauges where as Morgan never did that and measured and markedeverything.I lost count of the steps in the making of a Marquis reel but it lookedlike no fewer than 8-10 people are involved in the making of one. All thecastings are poured one at a time then set up and hand turned andmeasuredbefore going on to the next stage etc. Very heavily manual.I must admit I like to know that sort of thing is still done but it doesexplain the price. One thing that kept sticking in my mind though was withall these people involved in making every single reel, surely somebody musthave realised by now you can't palm using the Princess and thought to dosomething about it. [:-)] On another front there was a section on their bamboo rods.Now, sit down everybody because here it comes. Hardy use a table saw togetthe strips, nothing more than a fence as you'd use to cut wood was used.Infact the anti kickback devide was removed and only the splitter was left.The culm is SAWN in half, then quarters etc. The nodes are then LINISHEDflush with the bamboo. Then after the strips are more or less level (usingthe linisher) they're milled.There wasn't a file, heating device or any other means of torture seen onthe video.The glue is a UF judging on the way it was mixed and used and it's waterlike nature and the binder is a 4 bobbin jobbie that looked like it neededsome serious balancing.The blanks are then sanded flat then mic'd then SANDED TO DIMENSION tofirthe finished dimensions.I kept thinking of TA when I was watching this. Do keep in mind though theEnglish attitude towards this sort of thing is different to the US whereany imperfections are seen as flaws where as the English tend to be moreforgiving of these things and consider it all a part of the character ofthe item. The English prob wouldn't be as critical of sanded nodes as thosein the US who press them to make them as small as possible.Any English on the list could advise here though. There was also a section on making the graphite rods and these seemedpretty good actually. This is a library copy and it's terribly badly copied(must have been done by the bamboo division of Hardy) and in PAL so Idoubtit's stand converting and re copying but I'd recommend trying to see it ifyou can. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxenor 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing /*************************************************************************/ from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 12:11:00 2001 fB3IB0H05721 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:11:00 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:10:50 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: FILETIME=[D6CA7070:01C17C25] M-D,Never tried one of those. The side of a plane blade will take just about=everything in one pass. I use it for clean-up after gluing also. It re=ally works well. ----- Original Message ----- What about using one of the citrus strippers for the bulk of the work, th=en use the scraper to get the rest? M-D Tyler,You can do a decent job scraping with the side of a plane blade. Just go=easy-esp. in the tip areas. Then sand lightly with 400 grit. Works for=me. Howdy- I've been building rods since I was a little kid. I have worked w/graphite and glass. I have one cool old heddon classic bamboo rod thatbelonged to my grandfather that i'd love to rebuild. I'm just worriedabout damaging the bamboo. I have already stripped it to the blank, but=Idon't know how to remove the old rod varnish without damaging the bamboo.Any suggestions?? Tyler M-D, Never tried one ofthose.= DeLancier Sent: Monday, December 03,200= dis=cussion group Subject: Re: then use the scraper to get the rest?= Long Tyler, You can do a decent job scraping with the side of a pl= John = I'v=e been building rods since I was a little kid. I have worked w/graphi= =stripped it to the blank, but Idon't know how to remove the old rod v=arnish without damaging the bamboo.Any suggestions??Tyler from CALucker@aol.com Mon Dec 3 12:11:25 2001 fB3IBPH05808 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:11:25 -0600 Subject: Re: EC Powell In a message dated 12/2/01 11:09:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, TBOWDEN@halcyon.com writes: I guess I don't understand. If you start at .070 and increase by .009 every6 inches, the butt of an 8' rod is only .214. A real "buggy-whip"! The 0.009" incremental change refers is the half the dimension. You are thinking of the entire cross section, in which case you should think about 0.018 per six inches change. Chris Lucker In a message dated12/2/01 11:09:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, TBOWDEN@halcyon.com writes: I guess I don'tunderstand. If you start at .070 and increase by .009 every6 inches, the butt of an 8' rod is only .214. A real "buggy-whip"! The 0.009" incremental change refers is the half the dimension. think about 0.018 per six inches change. Chris Lucker from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 12:17:02 2001 fB3IGvH06378 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:16:57 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:16:51 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: The legend continues FILETIME=[AE39F580:01C17C26] Thanks, Brad. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The legend continues Good Monday everyone, I tried his website at www.jasonborger.comand came up with jason@jasonborger.com hope it helpsBrad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/3/01 at 9:15 AM Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote:John, and All. Funny you should say this. I wish that this thread had s=tarted a couple of days earlier. I would have asked Jason these question=s. On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borger was the guest speaker at =the Annual Banquet of the Fort Smith, Arkansas Flyfishers. His whole tal=k was about the movie "A River Runs Through It". He did mention a lot of=different rod brand names and that some were painted Hexagraph rods,mad=e to look like bamboo. Ralph, he mentioned that in the original "Credits" he had four mentions. =However, when Columbia Pictures bought the rights to the film, his credi=ts were cut to two (2). He stated that at first everyone thought that it was a fishing movie. He=said that really it is a movie about relationships within a family and t=hat flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters to the "River" of L=ife. He did put on a casting demonstration in the banquet hall and even did th=e "Shadow Cast" which he said has no use at all as it scares fish rather =than brings them to the rise. I will try to get his e-mail address from the individual who arranged his=engagement. Also, on Saturday Dec. 1st, Jason puton a fly tying demo and class in the=morning and a casting school in the afternoon. The weather here was gor=gous but I didn't get to go to these as I had previous commitments.Dick FuhrmanAnother source to check with would be Jason Borger. His father, Gary, to=ld me that Jason was doing the casting whenever you could not see the fac= ge ----- From: Brad Love = what i=ts worth, I tried his website at www.jasonborger.com and came up with jason@jasonborger.com Br=ad *********** REPLYSEPARATOR=***********On 12/3/01 at 9:15 AM Dick & Kathy Fuhrmanwrote:=John, andAll.&nb= On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borger was the guestsp= tha= umbia Pictures bought the rights to the film, his credits were cut to two= He stated that at first everyone thought that it was a fish= thin a family and that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters =to the "River" of Life.  =; He did put on a casting demonstration in=the banquet hall and even did the "Shadow Cast" which he said has no use = g demo and class in the morning and a casting school in the afternoon.&nb=sp; The weather here was gorgous but I didn't get to go to these as I had=previous commitments. Dick His= wheneve= from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 12:19:44 2001 fB3IJhH06726 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:19:43 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:19:37 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America FILETIME=[11542320:01C17C27] Ouch! I'll drink to that! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fly Fishing America Yeah. $ 200.00 per article sounds like decent money . . . unless one has =ever written an article, then it's barely minimum wage. I suppose it woul=d take longer to do such a thing for a Baptist preacher, given their prop=ensity for dragging things out . . . endlessly droning on past the noon h=our, while lunch awaits and . . . }B^)> M-D : Jojo DeLancier Sent:M= Yeah. $ 200.00per =article sounds like decent money . . . unless one has ever written an art= to do such a thing for a Baptist preacher, given their propensity for dra= M-D = from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 12:20:44 2001 fB3IKhH06859 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:20:43 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:20:27 -0800 "Jojo DeLancier" ,"Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: The legend continues FILETIME=[2F23AB00:01C17C27] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The legend continues John, and All. Funny you should say this. I wish that this thread had s=tarted a couple of days earlier. I would have asked Jason these question=s. On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borger was the guest speaker at =the Annual Banquet of the Fort Smith, Arkansas Flyfishers. His whole tal=k was about the movie "A River Runs Through It". He did mention a lot of=different rod brand names and that some were painted Hexagraph rods,mad=e to look like bamboo. Ralph, he mentioned that in the original "Credits" he had four mentions. =However, when Columbia Pictures bought the rights to the film, his credi=ts were cut to two (2). He stated that at first everyone thought that it was a fishing movie. He=said that really it is a movie about relationships within a family and t=hat flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters to the "River" of L=ife. He did put on a casting demonstration in the banquet hall and even did th=e "Shadow Cast" which he said has no use at all as it scares fish rather =than brings them to the rise. I will try to get his e-mail address from the individual who arranged his=engagement. Also, on Saturday Dec. 1st, Jason puton a fly tying demo and class in the=morning and a casting school in the afternoon. The weather here was gor=gous but I didn't get to go to these as I had previous commitments.Dick FuhrmanAnother source to check with would be Jason Borger. His father, Gary, to=ld me that Jason was doing the casting whenever you could not see the fac= & K=athy Fuhrman Sent:Monday, D= Subject: Re: The legend Funny= On Friday evening Nov. 30th, 2001, Jason Borger was the guest speaker at = n a lot of different rod brand names and that some were painted Hexagraph= the = mily and that flyfishing is the bridge that ties the characters to the "R= banqu=et hall and even did the "Shadow Cast" which he said has no use at all as= will =try to get his e-mail address from the individual who arranged his engage= Also, on Saturday Dec. 1st, Jason puton a fly tying demo an= eather here was gorgous but I didn't get to go to these as I had previous=commitments. DickFuhrman cou= from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 12:23:23 2001 fB3INMH07304 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:23:22 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:23:13 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: EC Powell FILETIME=[91DCF3F0:01C17C27] Now yer talking stiff! ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: EC Powell In a message dated 12/2/01 11:09:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,TBOWDEN@hal= I guess I don't understand. If you start at .070 and increase by .009 eve= The 0.009" incremental change refers is the half the dimension. You are =thinking of the entire cross section, in which case you should think abou= Now yertalkin= Original Message ----- From: CALucker@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:16 rodmakers@w=ugate.wustl.edu Subject:Re:= TBOWDE=N@halcyon.com writes: I guess I don't understand. If you start at .070 and increase= buggy-whip"! The 0.009"increm= the entire cross section, in which case you should think about 0.018 per =six inches change. Chris Lucker from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Dec 3 12:28:03 2001 fB3IS3H07735 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:28:03 -0600 fB3IS0624365; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: a quad conversion question. Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbers varying from0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89 to 0.93) toconvert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those whohave tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippy and 0.93, shallwe say brisk? Many thanks, dws. from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Mon Dec 3 12:30:13 2001 fB3IU7H08004 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:30:07 -0600 KAA07389; Subject: Re: Rod Identification Cooper was a popular guy......;-) guy......;-) from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Dec 3 13:22:07 2001 fB3JM5H10644 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:22:05 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Rodmakers discussion group Subject: Re: John, I use the side of a flexible putty knife, this gives me a good handle to work with.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ John Long wrote: M-D, Never tried one of those. The side of a plane blade will take just about everything in one pass. I use it for clean-up after gluing also. It really works well. from CALucker@aol.com Mon Dec 3 13:38:50 2001 fB3JcjH12698 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:38:45 -0600 Subject: Re: EC Powell rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 12/3/01 10:24:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, JNL123141@msn.com writes: Now yer talking stiff! It is not as stiff as it sounds, but I have never seen a Powell taper designation written on the bag with a higher number than 9. But, if you don;t think you will like a B9, try a B 8 1/2, or B 8 1/4 or B8 or whatever. Experiment with different dimensional changes at the ferrules. Don't forget about the option of making more wood appear at the tip ferrule than at the butt ferrule on a two piecer. And, try using Casein, hide or weldwood.Chris Lucker In a message dated12/3/01 10:24:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, JNL123141@msn.com writes: Now yer talkingstiff! It is not as stiff as it sounds, but I have never seen a Powell taper don;t think you will like a B9, try a B 8 1/2, or B 8 1/4 or B8 or whatever. hide or weldwood.Chris Lucker from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Dec 3 13:51:03 2001 fB3Jp2H15243 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:51:02 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:51:00 +0000 Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 and this is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to like areas atany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbers varying from0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89 to 0.93) toconvert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those whohave tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippy and 0.93, shallwe say brisk? Many thanks, dws. from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Dec 3 14:07:50 2001 fB3K7eH17649 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:07:45 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:07:25 -0500 Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. I use equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 and this is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to like areas atany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbers varying from0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89 to 0.93) toconvert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those whohave tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippy and 0.93, shallwe say brisk? Many thanks, dws. I use equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes:Th accepted conversionfactor by the majority is 0.92 and this is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to like areas atany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: from to those who shall from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Dec 3 14:23:28 2001 fB3KNNH19097 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:23:23 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA28452; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:23:18 - ETAtAhQm4iNRG1slBKso+IG1NYxkRPi5mwIVAMiN1E2U8SRiV1cEFU3VhxbcxhrB Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. EST Darryl - I know how to calculate the area of quad and hex but how do youtranslate the area of a hex to quad? Regards, Jerry Young from beadman@mac.com Mon Dec 3 14:24:31 2001 fB3KOUH19379 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:24:31 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:24:07 -0500 Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. 1204711435==_ma============" --============_-1204711435==_ma============ Strictly speaking, it's the integral of the cross sectional area. I have done some research on the stress formulas and have a small PDF file (Acrobat Reader 4.0 or later needed) that explains it all. It also develops the stress equations for quads and pentas. Let me know if you want it, and I'll email it as an attachment. I'd normally just put it on my web site, but since my web site is at @home.com, I have no idea how much longer it'll be before the plug gets pulled here in Virginia. Claudebeadman@mac.com At 3:07 PM -0500 on 12/3/01, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote about Re: a quad conversion question. I use equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 and this is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to like areas atany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbers varying from0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89 to 0.93) toconvert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those whohave tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippy and 0.93, shallwe say brisk? Many thanks, dws. --============_-1204711435==_ma============ Re: a quad conversionquestion.Strictly speaking, it's the integral of the cross sectional a small PDF file (Acrobat Reader 4.0 or later needed) that explains pentas. Let me know if you want it, and I'll email it as an my web site is at @home.com, I have no idea how much longer it'll bebefore the plug gets pulled here in Virginia. Claudebeadman@mac.com At 3:07 PM -0500 on 12/3/01, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote about Re:a quad conversion question. I useequivalent cross sectional area.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th acceptedconversion factor by the majority is 0.92 and this is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to like areasatany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: varying from 0.93) to from those who and 0.93, shall --============_-1204711435==_ma============-- from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Dec 3 14:33:31 2001 fB3KXUH21530 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:33:30 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Rod Identification rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I think it's a Paul hightower rod, You have to check the spelling because Ricksaid it was spelled wrong when either Hightower or Debell used that name...Southbend Doublebuilt also used that name but it was spelled correctly.. Thanks dave----- Original Message ----- From: Marty D. aka "none 03, 2001 10:25 AMSubject: Re: Rod Identification Courtney Riley Cooper is a Debell rod. Courtney Ryley Cooper is a SouthBend. Marty Douglas Losey wrote: Don,I have a Courtney Riley Cooper rod also, from everything I can findabout the rod it was made by Fred DeBell form either a phillipson blank or aW&M blank. The rod I have is a 6'6" 4wt....very fine rod..I have fished it oftenenough to require refinishing twice....Contact Rick at Ricks Rods he probablyhas as much info has anybody....losey I think it's a Paul hightower rod, You have to check the spelling because Rick said it was spelled wrong when eitherHightower or Debell used that name... Southbend Doublebuilt also used that name but itwas ----- Original Message ----- From: Marty D. aka "none Sent: Monday, December 03, 200110:25 AMSubject: Re: Rod IdentificationCourtney Riley Cooper is a Debell rod. Courtney RyleyCooper is a South Bend. Marty Douglas Losey wrote: Don,I have a Courtney Riley Cooper rod also, from everything I canfind about the rod it was made by Fred DeBell form either a phillipson blank ora W&M blank. The rod I have is a 6'6" 4wt....very fine rod..I have fished it often enough to require refinishing twice....Contact Rick at Ricks Rods he probably has asmuch info has anybody....losey from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Dec 3 14:40:53 2001 fB3KeqH23561 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:40:53 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:40:51 +0000 Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. Jerry,I am not sure what this question is and where we are going with it?..........Paul Jerry Young wrote: Darryl - I know how to calculate the area of quad and hex but how do youtranslate the area of a hex to quad? Regards, Jerry Young from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 14:55:44 2001 fB3KthH27550 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:55:43 -0600 03 Dec 2001 12:55:39 PST Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. it would be the inverse of the .92, wouldn't it?(100/92=1.08) TIMOTHY --- Jerry Young wrote: Darryl - I know how to calculate the area of quadand hex but how do youtranslate the area of a hex to quad? Regards, Jerry Young ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 3 15:08:05 2001 fB3L84H01285 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:08:04 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:06:36 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:07:21 -0800 Subject: RE: a quad conversion question. Sorry, I didn't explain at all. I match the stress curve using the sameformula as a hex, but using a square to calculate the area. I find that thedifferences are very small going with the straight equivalent crosssectional area.To answer Jerry's question, calculate the area of a hex at a diameter, anduse the same area, but in a square.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:24 PM Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. Strictly speaking, it's the integral of the cross sectional area. I havedone some research on the stress formulas and have a small PDF file(Acrobat Reader 4.0 or later needed) that explains it all. It alsodevelops the stress equations for quads and pentas. Let me know if you want it, and I'll email it as an attachment. I'dnormally just put it on my web site, but since my web site is at@home.com, I have no idea how much longer it'll be before the plug getspulled here in Virginia. Claudebeadman@mac.com At 3:07 PM -0500 on 12/3/01, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote about Re: aquadconversion question. I use equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl HayashidaIn a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 andthis is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like tolike areas atany given point...........Paulearsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbersvarying from0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89to 0.93) toconvert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those whohave tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippyand 0.93, shallwe say brisk? Many thanks, dws. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 3 15:10:01 2001 fB3LA0H01946 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:10:00 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:08:37 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:09:29 -0800 Subject: RE: a quad conversion question. A quad is stiffer if you use the same flat to flat measurement as a hex.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:56 PM Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. it would be the inverse of the .92, wouldn't it?(100/92=1.08) TIMOTHY--- Jerry Young wrote: Darryl - I know how to calculate the area of quadand hex but how do youtranslate the area of a hex to quad? Regards, Jerry Young ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Dec 3 15:11:18 2001 fB3LBHH02356 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:11:17 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:11:16 -0600 Subject: RE: a quad conversion question. The diameter or strip height of the quad strips should be .931 times that ofthe hex diameter or strip height to yield the same cross-sectional area.That does not take into account leaving the curve of the culm on the outsideof the strip, a practice used by some makers of quads. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. Darryl - I know how to calculate the area of quad and hex but how do youtranslate the area of a hex to quad? Regards, Jerry Young from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 15:13:59 2001 fB3LDwH03173 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:13:58 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:13:52 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: EC Powell FILETIME=[68F3DA40:01C17C3F] I believe straight taper rods do not dampen as quickly as a convex or com=pound tapered rod. My Dickerson 7613 does not dampen as well as some of=my other 7 1/2 footers. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the way it seems to=me. John ----- Original Message ----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: EC Powell In a message dated 12/3/01 10:24:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,JNL123141@m= It is not as stiff as it sounds, but I have never seen a Powell taper des=ignation written on the bag with a higher number than 9. But, if you don=;t think you will like a B9, try a B 8 1/2, or B 8 1/4 or B8 or whatever.=Experiment with different dimensional changes at the ferrules. Don't f=orget about the option of making more wood appear at the tip ferrule than=at the butt ferrule on a two piecer. And, try using Casein, hide or wel= I believestra=ight taper rods do not dampen as quickly as a convex or compound tapered = of= CALucker@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 03,200= JNL123141@msn.=com; TBOWDEN@halcyon.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: EC Powell 10:2=4:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, JNL123141@msn.com writes:Now yer talking stiff! It is not as stiff as itsounds,=but I have never seen a Powell taper designation written on the bag with= ption of making more wood appear at the tip ferrule than at the butt ferr= hris Lucker from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 15:17:23 2001 fB3LHHH04184 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:17:17 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:17:04 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: FILETIME=[DB2EB620:01C17C3F] Good idea! I will try it. A putty knife would be easy and quick to put =a burl on also. Glad I thought of that...... ----- Original Message ----- John,I use the side of a flexible putty knife, this gives me a good handle towork with.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ John Long wrote: M-D, Never tried one of those. The side of a plane blade will take justabout everything in one pass. I use it for clean-up after gluing also.It really works well. Reed, ----- Original Message ----- From: Reed Curry Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 2:28 JNL123141@msn.com Cc: Jojo DeLancier; Rodmakersdiscussi= knife, this gives me a good handle towork with.Bestregards,=Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/John Long from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 15:28:54 2001 fB3LSrH07242 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:28:53 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:28:48 -0800 Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. FILETIME=[7E8E7BB0:01C17C41] To all,Wait till the Jan.-Feb. issue of The Planing Form comes out then pester J=ohn Zimny and Bill Lamberson about what they did for the Grand Experiment=rod conversions. Zimny did a quad rod and Lamberson did a rectangular r=od. No sneak peeks now, though. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: a quad conversion question. Sorry, I didn't explain at all. I match the stress curve using the sameformula as a hex, but using a square to calculate the area. I find that t=hedifferences are very small going with the straight equivalent crosssectional area.To answer Jerry's question, calculate the area of a hex at a diameter, an=duse the same area, but in a square.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:24 PM Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. Strictly speaking, it's the integral of the cross sectional area. I ha= ve done some research on the stress formulas and have a small PDF file(Acrobat Reader 4.0 or later needed) that explains it all. It alsodevelops the stress equations for quads and pentas. Let me know if you want it, and I'll email it as an attachment. I'dnormally just put it on my web site, but since my web site is at@home.com, I have no idea how much longer it'll be before the plug getspulled here in Virginia. Claudebeadman@mac.com At 3:07 PM -0500 on 12/3/01, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote about Re: aquadconversion question. I use equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 andthis is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like tolike areas atany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbers varying from 0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89 to 0.93) to convert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those who have tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippy and 0.93, shall we say brisk? Many thanks, dws. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains=information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentia=l or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the ind=ividual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be =aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents o=f this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify=the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy a=ll electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments=\. Toall, = n pester John Zimny and Bill Lamberson about what they did for the Grand = Lamb= =- Original Message ----- From: Hayashida Darryl Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:14 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: a quad conversionq= he stress curve using the sameformula as a hex, but using a square to=calculate the area. I find that thedifferences are very small going =with the straight equivalent crosssectional area.To answer Jerry'=s question, calculate the area of a hex at a diameter, anduse the sam= rodmakers@wugate.wustl= Str= PDF= on 12/3/= questio= AM = and= compar= gang= Cou= th= including = any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc.=which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to =be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not th=e intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution=or use of the contents of this information is prohibited.If you =have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the se=nder immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all elec=tronic and hard copies of the communication, includingattachments. from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Dec 3 15:32:20 2001 fB3LWJH08282 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:32:19 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:32:02 -0500 1203163201; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:32:01 -0500 Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. I am probably making this too simple, but don't you just want to make surethe dimension to be converted (in this case the quad dimension) will producean identical moment of inertia as the hex dimension? In a message dated Mon, 3 Dec 2001 3:32:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,Claude Freaner writes: Re: a quad conversion question.Strictly speaking, it's the integral of the cross sectionalarea. I have done some research on the stress formulas and havea small PDF file (Acrobat Reader 4.0 or later needed) that explainsit all. It also develops the stress equations for quads andpentas. Let me know if you want it, and I'll email it as anattachment. I'd normally just put it on my web site, but sincemy web site is at @home.com, I have no idea how much longer it'll bebefore the plug gets pulled here in Virginia. Claudebeadman@mac.com At 3:07 PM -0500 on 12/3/01, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote about Re:a quad conversion question. I useequivalent cross sectional area. Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th acceptedconversion factor by the majority is 0.92 and this is a purely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to like areasat any given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbers varying from 0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89 to 0.93) to convert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those who have tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippy and 0.93, shall we say brisk? Many thanks, dws. from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 15:35:13 2001 fB3LZ8H09162 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:35:13 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:35:03 -0800 Subject: Plane differences. FILETIME=[5E16E8D0:01C17C42] To answer an earlier post, I can't resist responing anymore because i'm w=ell into a libation of Pig's Nose scotch.... john To answeran e= a libation of Pig's Nose scotch.... The difference between an =  =; john from caneman@clnk.com Mon Dec 3 15:38:19 2001 fB3LcIH10227 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:38:18 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. The approximate equivalent cross-sectional area of a square compared to =a hexagram is the "hex * 0.93"... not exact, but very very very close. =However, when making a fly rod, you have to consider a couple of things. =Is your hex a true hex and is your square a true square? If you plane =or sand the outer flats on the rod to "flat" then yes they are, however, =many of us leave the outer flats to the shape of the convex of the =original culm. Now, when you get down to dimensions as small as our =rods, they you have to take into consideration the material that will be =contained in that part of the convex that is above what would be the ="normal" flat of the rod, which will NOT be consistent, but will change =with each piece of cane you use, and believe me, when you leave that =outside natural, removing only the enamel, there is a marked difference = from culm to culm, therefore from rod to rod. So if you leave the outer =flat rounded, you have to consider that the .93 conversion factor just =doesn't work in all cases. The dimensions are so small in the tip =section that it will probably be close enough, but in the butt section, =you have a greater area, therefore the differences are of a greater =magnitude. Think about it like this. Take the 4 flats in the butt =section of a rod and glue to it a piece of rounded sliver from a culm =that's 2" diameter and a couple of thousandths thick... it WILL change =the action of a rod, therefore, in my opinion, which was greatly =influenced by Claude Freaner, you must consider the diameter and radius =of a culm that you make a rod from.Anyone interested in this should contact Claude Freaner. He has =done some VERY extensive work on this, which he was kind enough to send =me, including the explanation of the math, and it allows for factors =that we must consider, especially if we leave the outer shape of the =culm as we build the rod. I think the math, if you care to delve =through it, will explain a lot more about the considerations that must =be made in converting hex to quad, and when it all comes down to it, =there are a lot more considerations than are normally in place with a =straight 93% conversion factor.. For those of you that don't presently =build quads or are just starting, reading Claudes paper is very very =helpful. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. I use equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, =paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 and this is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to like areas =atany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbers varying =from0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89 to 0.93) =toconvert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those =whohave tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippy and 0.93, =shallwe say brisk? Many thanks, dws. The approximate equivalent cross-sectional area of a= compared to a hexagram is the "hex * 0.93"... not exact, but very very = you plane or sand the outer flats on the rod to "flat" then yes they = however, many of us leave the outer flats to the shape of the convex of = "normal" flat of the rod, which will NOT be consistent, but will change = each piece of cane you use, and believe me, when you leave that outside = removing only the enamel, there is a marked difference from culm to = have to consider that the .93 conversion factor just doesn't work in all = probably be close enough, but in the butt section, you have a greater = of rounded sliver from a culm that's 2" diameter and a couple of = thick... it WILL change the action of a rod, therefore, in my opinion, = greatly influenced by Claude Freaner, you must consider the diameter and = of a culm that you make a rod from. = = he was kind enough to send me, including the explanation of the math, = allows for factors that we must consider, especially if we leave the = through it, will explain a lot more about the considerations that must = in converting hex to quad, and when it all comes down to it, there = are just starting, reading Claudes paper is very very =helpful. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane =Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001= PM question. equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl HayashidaIn a = writes:Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 = is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like to = atany given point...........Paulearsdws@duke.edu dws. from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Dec 3 15:42:58 2001 fB3LgvH11620 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:42:57 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:42:35 -0500 1203164235; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:42:35 -0500 Subject: Medved Beveler Settings What is a recommended bevel depth for butts and for tips using a MedvedBeveler? Thanks, Kyle from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 3 16:01:33 2001 fB3M1XH17221 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:01:33 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:01:27 -0800 Subject: Re: Medved Beveler Settings FILETIME=[0E7CCF20:01C17C46] On my Medved beveler, using the squaring table, one full turn of the adju= sting knob and put some White Out correction liquid in the slot to make i=t easier to keep track of where the knob is. One full turn for each pass=of a strip has worked for me. When the beveling table is being used, I = John ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Medved Beveler Settings What is a recommended bevel depth for butts and for tips using a Medved B=eveler? Thanks, Kyle On myMedved b= and put some White Out correction liquid in the slot to make it easier t= rom: KyleDruey@aol.com Sent:= t is a recommended bevel depth for butts and for tips using a Medved Beve=ler?Thanks,Kyle from pumpkin10@prodigy.net Mon Dec 3 16:44:02 2001 fB3Mi1H29720 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:44:01 -0600 fB3MhxA246922 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:44:00 -0500 Subject: Rush river rods Jerry FosterI would like to know how i can get my web site on rod =makers tools parts & supplies Please take a lookand let me know, Click link below.Thanks Tony Thank you for inquiring about Rush River Rods.Please consult our Web Page at:http://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10. Sincerely,Tony Larson, Proprietor/Maker Jerry Foster & supplies Please take a lookand let me know, Click link =below. Thanks Tony Thank you for inquiring about Rush = Rods.Please consult our Web Page at:http://pages.prodigy.net/pump=kin10. from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 3 17:00:53 2001 fB3N0qH04390 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:00:52 -0600 helo=default) id 16B24x-0006tw-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:00:51 -0500 Subject: Denver Dave Update Just got an e-mail from Dave stating that he should have a temporary website up in the next 24 hr., or so.www.denverdave.net His current e-mail addy is Alphasign@aol.com but he's not currentlymonitoring the List. M-D from bob@downandacross.com Mon Dec 3 17:09:37 2001 fB3N9VH06948 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:09:31 -0600 3 Dec 2001 18:09:22 -0500 Subject: Internet Guys, are the problems related to excite@home paralyzing the Internet? Icannot get to either of my domains, and I have not recieved mail all day?Thanks,Bob from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 17:20:46 2001 fB3NKjH09889 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:20:45 -0600 (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Internet Yup! Excite took a dive and cut off their ISP accounts. They had beenplanning to sell to AT&T, but they rejected the last offer, and shut downtheir service. Anyone who has AT&T internet service is high and dry for thetime being. Apparently, it will take as long as a week to get things up andrunning. One more reason to dump cable internet access and switch to DSL. Jason On 12/3/01 4:04 PM, "Bob Maulucci" wrote: Guys, are the problems related to excite@home paralyzing the Internet? Icannot get to either of my domains, and I have not recieved mail all day?Thanks,Bob from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 3 17:27:37 2001 fB3NRaH11373 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:27:36 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:26:12 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:26:54 -0800 Subject: Rectangular quad (Was:RE: a quad conversion question.) I am looking forward to that, I have made a one piece, 5ft. rectangular quadthat is accurate as heck, 40 to 50 foot casts are no problem, and it rollcasts out to about 35 feet. It is also the rod I soaked in ammonia tobrowntone it. Also has a swell under the handle. For the type of fishing Imade it for I haven't seen anything better yet.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:28 PM Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. To all,Wait till the Jan.-Feb. issue of The Planing Form comes out then pesterJohn Zimny and Bill Lamberson about what they did for the GrandExperimentrod conversions. Zimny did a quad rod and Lamberson did a rectangularrod. No sneak peeks now, though.John ----- Original Message -----From: Hayashida DarrylSent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: RE: a quad conversion question.Sorry, I didn't explain at all. I match the stress curve using thesameformula as a hex, but using a square to calculate the area. I findthat thedifferences are very small going with the straight equivalent crosssectional area.To answer Jerry's question, calculate the area of a hex at adiameter, anduse the same area, but in a square.Darryl Hayashida-----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:24 PM Subject: Re: a quad conversion question. Strictly speaking, it's the integral of the cross sectional area.I havedone some research on the stress formulas and have a small PDFfile(Acrobat Reader 4.0 or later needed) that explains it all. Italsodevelops the stress equations for quads and pentas. Let me know if you want it, and I'll email it as an attachment.I'dnormally just put it on my web site, but since my web site is at@home.com, I have no idea how much longer it'll be before the pluggetspulled here in Virginia. Claudebeadman@mac.com At 3:07 PM -0500 on 12/3/01, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote about Re: aquadconversion question. I use equivalent cross sectional area.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/3/01 11:55:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,paul.blakley@ntlworld.com writes: Th accepted conversion factor by the majority is 0.92 andthis is apurely mathematical derivation based on comparing like tolike areas atany given point...........Paul earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Ok gang, time to weigh in. I have received, seen, numbersvarying from0.89 to 0.93 X (multiplying the next taper values by 0.89to 0.93) toconvert hex to quad tapers. Could we have a discussion from those whohave tried the different conversions? Is 0.89 to whippyand 0.93, shallwe say brisk? Many thanks, dws. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments,contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may beconfidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the useof the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intendedrecipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use ofthe contents of this information is prohibited.If you have received this electronic transmission in error, pleasenotify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message anddestroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, includingattachments. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from dstreight@yarcom.com Mon Dec 3 17:28:51 2001 fB3NSoH11648 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:28:50 -0600 0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: RE: Internet Actually, I have an attglobal.net account that still works just fine as adialup (use it as I get worldwide local access numbers for travel purposes).Are the problems related to just AT&T cable modem access?? If not, I needanew solution for my trips. Dave -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Internet Yup! Excite took a dive and cut off their ISP accounts. They had beenplanning to sell to AT&T, but they rejected the last offer, and shut downtheir service. Anyone who has AT&T internet service is high anddry for thetime being. Apparently, it will take as long as a week to getthings up andrunning. One more reason to dump cable internet access and switch toDSL. Jason On 12/3/01 4:04 PM, "Bob Maulucci" wrote: Guys, are the problems related to excite@home paralyzing the Internet? Icannot get to either of my domains, and I have not recieved mail all day? Thanks,Bob from CALucker@aol.com Mon Dec 3 17:33:03 2001 fB3NX2H12795 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:33:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Internet rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Bob, I sent you an E-mail saying today, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday areokay.Chris Lucker Bob, I sent you an E-mailsaying today, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday are okay.Chris Lucker from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Mon Dec 3 17:57:13 2001 fB3NvCH17732 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:57:12 -0600 3 Dec 2001 18:30:44 -0500 Subject: What is going on? Guys:I am sorry to bring this up on the list...BUT if you are trying to get ahold of me or the powerfibers site, it is down. I have no idea why, but typepowerfibers.com or downandacross.com in and you get FLOYDVIRGINIA.COMI have no idea who this is or why they have take over my site. I am tryingto get this worked out. Maybe I will have to sell some logo hats or maybehave a baked sale while I wait. (Someone asked me on the phone today whenthe hat and baked sale was? What does this mean...did I miss something?)Best regards,Bob from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Dec 3 18:11:03 2001 fB40B3H19664 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:11:03 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 00:10:52 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Internet Saturday morning 6AM Excite@home.com pulled the plug on me and 4 millionothers. It also crashed my system. Got back online late Sunday afternoonwith a new email address:homes-sold@attbi.comTo them, its no big deal, all I have to do is update all of my websites,change all RE data base access & info, new business cards and stationary,notify all of my clients and support people, etc.What they did shouldn't have effected anyone else not on either network.P.O'ed. Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Internet Guys, are the problems related to excite@home paralyzing the Internet? Icannot get to either of my domains, and I have not recieved mail all day?Thanks,Bob from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 3 18:15:15 2001 fB40FEH20530 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:15:14 -0600 (authenticated) Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:14:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Medved Beveler Settings Kyle, Just started using a Medved Beveler, and on the first two rods I went to.040"over the largest one-half diameter for the butt sections, and .060" over fortips.Worked okay for me. I take off about 1/32" per cut as well. If you split fairly closely, it takesabout 5-6 passes through the machine. Harry KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: What is a recommended bevel depth for butts and for tips using a MedvedBeveler? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Dec 3 18:40:24 2001 fB40eNH26391 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:40:23 -0600 Subject: Quad Conversions To the ListIf you use geometric conversions like .92 you will get a quad that is =noticably slower than its hex equivalent. To get an equivalent action =you need a totally different quad stress curve. Let's hope that John =(the quad master) Zimney will give us more insight in the next Power =Fibers. Bill To the List conversions = you will get a quad that is noticably slower than its hex equivalent. To = equivalent action you need a totally different quad stress curve. Let's = that John (the quad master) Zimney will give us more insight in the next = from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:40:52 2001 fB40elH26500 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:40:47 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:40:38 -0800 Tue, 04 Dec 2001 00:40:37 GMT Subject: Was Medved Bev-Now Tapering with Medved Bev FILETIME=[4B037DC0:01C17C5C] Has anyone built an attachment for the Medved style beveler that can cut tapers? Not a finish taper, but a straight taper similar to the new Whitehead style roughing beveler that GW sells. Yes, I know JW sells one, but where's the fun in buying it? Thanks in advance,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 18:59:20 2001 fB40xJH01150 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:59:19 -0600 03 Dec 2001 16:59:15 PST Subject: Re: Internet Rodmakers excite@home is back up and running better than before.timothy --- Jason Swan wrote: Yup! Excite took a dive and cut off their ISPaccounts. They had beenplanning to sell to AT&T, but they rejected the lastoffer, and shut downtheir service. Anyone who has AT&T internet serviceis high and dry for thetime being. Apparently, it will take as long as aweek to get things up andrunning. One more reason to dump cable internetaccess and switch to DSL. Jason On 12/3/01 4:04 PM, "Bob Maulucci"wrote: Guys, are the problems related to excite@home paralyzing the Internet? I cannot get to either of my domains, and I have not recieved mail all day? Thanks,Bob ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from beadman@mac.com Mon Dec 3 19:19:55 2001 fB41JnH06033 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:19:53 -0600 Subject: More about Quad Conversion Information Wow - a LOT of requests for my stress formulas and/or spreadsheet. I just saw in the newspaper this evening that @home.com will still be active for ComCast Cable customers for another 3 months, so I can put the files on my web site for you to download. This will probably be easier for most of you to download than my sending you a 1.2 meg email... The two files are located as follows: The explanation of the equations on a PDF file is atand is 25K The MS Excel spreadsheet that replicates Hexrod, and adds capability to change a taper from hex to penta or quad (either perfect square quad, or rounded quad), is atand is 817K. I will admit up front that the spreadsheet is not really all that user-friendly, and totally lacks the smooth elegance of Wayne Cattanach's Hexrod, Frank Stetzer's web version, or Paul Griffin's Macro-driven Excel spreadsheet. Mine is pretty brute-force, but the equations seem to be accurate. To make it very clear: I expect no payment for either of these documents now or in the future. They build on the works of Garrison, Cattanach, Stetzer, and Griffin, and rely upon publicly available information and books about stress. Feel free to use either of the documents, to copy and distribute them (as long as you don't charge anyone money for them), and to modify them. Todd, you can include either or both in your tips web site. If Wayne, Frank, or Paul wish to modify their programs to include any of these equations, please feel free to use them. Finally, if anyone has questions, please don't hesitate to ask. It may take me a while to get back to you, as I'm helping my wife recover from knee-replacement surgery, as well as trying to work full time at NASA, so I'm a bit busy at times. Claudebeadman@mac.comfreaner@home.comcfreaner@hq.nasa.gov from briansr@point-net.com Mon Dec 3 19:46:40 2001 fB41kdH12344 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:46:39 -0600 fB420Pm29851; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:00:25 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: What is going on? BobThis is really too bad,as your site and especially Powerfibers isterrific.Good luck !Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: What is going on? Guys:I am sorry to bring this up on the list...BUT if you are trying to get ahold of me or the powerfibers site, it is down. I have no idea why, but type powerfibers.com or downandacross.com in and you get FLOYDVIRGINIA.COMI have no idea who this is or why they have take over my site. I am tryingto get this worked out. Maybe I will have to sell some logo hats or maybehave a baked sale while I wait. (Someone asked me on the phone today whenthe hat and baked sale was? What does this mean...did I miss something?)Best regards,Bob from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Dec 3 19:54:08 2001 fB41s7H14267 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:54:07 -0600 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:54:03 -0500 Subject: Re:What is going on? BobI just tried going to powerfibers.com and it came up fine Just thought I'd let you know.Try it again:))Maybe its something in your computer?Hope this helps. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} BobI just tried going to powerfibers.com and it came up fine Just thought I'd let you know.Try it again:))Maybe its something in your computer?Hope this helps.Best regards Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 21:05:14 2001 fB4358H28964 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:05:08 -0600 ([209.178.134.169] helo=g2t8c9) id 16B5tG-0005Jk-00; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:05:02 -0800 Subject: In defence of Hardy reels In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades.They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I havefished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH, Marquisand a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now wehavemany reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design because itisso well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been inthe last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. Andif you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared to thecurrent trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again you couldsay the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt canerod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX 9'4wtwith a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do, andhave a good reputation while selling right next to what is technicallybetter in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rodsI do anyhow. Tony from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Mon Dec 3 21:07:02 2001 fB4372H29404 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:07:02 -0600 by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:03:50 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: What is going on? Bob: I just checked out both of your sites and did a ping on both. It works justfine. What probably happened is some how or another the IP addresses forthe sites got messed up in the MX records in the DNS. Usually updatesafter 7:00pm EST/EDT and all should be well. Bet the folks atFloydVirginia.Com had some concerns too. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life".----- Original Message ----- Subject: What is going on? Guys:I am sorry to bring this up on the list...BUT if you are trying to get ahold of me or the powerfibers site, it is down. I have no idea why, but type powerfibers.com or downandacross.com in and you get FLOYDVIRGINIA.COMI have no idea who this is or why they have take over my site. I am tryingto get this worked out. Maybe I will have to sell some logo hats or maybehave a baked sale while I wait. (Someone asked me on the phone today whenthe hat and baked sale was? What does this mean...did I miss something?)Best regards,Bob from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 21:07:56 2001 fB437uH29675 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:07:56 -0600 ([209.178.134.169] helo=g2t8c9) id 16B5w1-0001LA-00; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:07:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Another tip (Heads up Adam!) Art, Excellent idea. I definitly will give it a try. What I currently do is =masking tape the entire grip and go a dipping. If the finish touches the =cork no harm no foul. Adam Vigil Subject: Another tip (Heads up Adam!) I don't know how many of you are as slow as I am, but I'll impress = I have an opaque dip tank and after dipping too many rods to =count, and usually being confounded by dipping the butts either too =deeply (and marring the cork) or not deeply enough, I decided today to =tape a toothpick to the cork so it protrudes off the end of the handle =as far as I wish to insert the rod into the varnish. When the toothpick =hits the surface (where I CAN see it whereas when the cork hits the =surface I can't) I know I'm exactly as deep as I wish to go. How could =it take so long to discover such a simple work- around?Art Art, Excellent idea. I definitly will give = What I currently do is masking tape the entire grip and go a dipping. If = finish touches the cork no harm no foul. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- arthur =port Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001= AM Adam!) are as slow as I am, but I'll impress you either with my great = or my unbounded obtuseness. after dipping too many rods to count, and usually being confounded by = the butts either too deeply (and marring the cork) or not deeply = decided today to tape a toothpick to the cork so it protrudes off the = the handle as far as I wish to insert the rod into the varnish. When = toothpick hits the surface (where I CAN see it whereas when the cork = surface I can't) I know I'm exactly as deep as I wish to go. How could = so long to discover such a simple work-around?Art from martinrjensen@attbi.com Mon Dec 3 21:14:55 2001 fB43EsH01333 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:14:54 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 03:14:48 +0000 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e'" Subject: RE: What is going on? Organization: wish I had some Works for me too. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: What is going on? Guys:I am sorry to bring this up on the list...BUT if you are trying to get ahold of me or the powerfibers site, it is down. I have no idea why, buttype powerfibers.com or downandacross.com in and you getFLOYDVIRGINIA.COM I have no idea who this is or why they have take overmy site. I am trying to get this worked out. Maybe I will have to sellsome logo hats or maybe have a baked sale while I wait. (Someone askedme on the phone today when the hat and baked sale was? What does thismean...did I miss something?) Best regards, Bob from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 3 21:53:17 2001 fB43rHH09138 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:53:17 -0600 (authenticated) Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:52:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Was Medved Bev-Now Tapering with Medved Bev Eamon, Al has also designed a taper mill, based on a similar concept to hisbeveler. He demo'd it at SRG 2000, but I don't think he had it with him thisyear. It's really pretty slick. One pass, and you're down to about .020"oversize the length of the strip. Make about 6 passes with your plane, andyou are finished with that strip. Harry Eamon Lee wrote: Has anyone built an attachment for the Medved style beveler that can cuttapers? Not a finish taper, but a straight taper similar to the newWhitehead style roughing beveler that GW sells. Yes, I know JW sells one, but where's the fun in buying it? Thanks in advance,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from sjtate@earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 21:53:38 2001 fB43rZH09263 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:53:35 -0600 id 16B6eA-00016E-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:53:31 -0800 Subject: Rodmakers index from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 3 22:53:21 2001 fB44rJH19637 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 22:53:20 -0600 "Peter McKean" Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I guess, but I own a few Hardy reels and never use them. Don't want to sell them either just yet because I don't need to. I also have a few reels made Young Reflex 1445 that cost about $45 new I wouldn't be without on my copy of a Dickerson 7614. The Hardy reels are well finished for sure but as reels I don't like them and have come to the conclusion price has absolutely nothing to do with usefulness for trout reels, looks and aura yes, usefulness no.Actually something I was told that may be untrue but is worth looking into if you like Hardy reels is due to the difficulty of actually getting to the streams in the UK just now due to F&M Hardy have reduced the WS prices of their reels to keep production going at pre F&M levels. This may not be true and there may also no longer be a problem getting to the streams in the UK either but may be worth looking into if you were interested in getting a Hardy or two cheap(er). Tony At 07:09 PM 12/3/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades.They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I havefished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH,Marquisand a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now wehavemany reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design because itisso well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been inthe last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. Andif you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared to thecurrent trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again you couldsay the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt canerod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX 9'4wtwith a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do,andhave a good reputation while selling right next to what is technicallybetter in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rodsI do anyhow. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 3 23:20:52 2001 fB45KpH20861 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:20:51 -0600 helo=default) id 16B80g-000012-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 00:20:51 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I recently acquired a Hardy Ocean Prince 2, in mint condition, which, thoughI haven't used it of yet, is a fine example in every respect ofcraftsmanship. Being an anti-reverse reel, it has three "clutches" for thedisc drag, a double clicker on the outgoing, and by all accounts from thosewith whom I've talked, and who've fished the reel, it is an exceptional tool ;o)I, too, have a Galvan 3.0BA, which is a damned fine reel, though looks veryout of place on a bamboo rod, hence I never fish with it, which is a shame.I once talked to Bonnie Galvan about making a reel specifically for bamboorods, but he wasn't interested in my proposal. ;o( M-D In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades.They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I havefished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH, Marquis and a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now we have many reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design becauseit is so well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been inthe last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. Andif you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared tothecurrent trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again you could say the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt canerod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX 9'4wt with a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Dec 4 00:31:29 2001 fB46VNH23671 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 00:31:23 -0600 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 01:31:05 -0500 Subject: Filing Nodes The cane arrived today and I am starting to file nodes for the first time. I am using the WC book and the list as my guide. On page 13 of the WC book it shows two pictures that are supposed to be the before and after filing pictures of the nodes. Look carefully at the captions and the pictures... isn't the picture on the right the before picture and the one on the left the after picture? Seems like the captions are reversed, I would like to confirm this... I have the 2000 version of the WC book, might be the same for prior versions. Thanks, Kyle from robert.warholm@home.com Tue Dec 4 01:29:32 2001 fB47TUH25603 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 01:29:30 -0600 ;Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:29:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Filing Nodes Yes, the pictures are reversed, it is a very subtule difference in thepictures isn't it - good eye. Rob W from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 01:50:37 2001 fB47oaH26358 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 01:50:36 -0600 Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:50:26 -0800 Tue, 04 Dec 2001 07:50:26 GMT petermckean@netspace.net.au Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels FILETIME=[5665F440:01C17C98] I too remember when the choice was a Pfleuger or a Hardy. Saw way toomany steelhead landed with an old 1495 1/2 or a 1498 to think either one was a mistake. Love my Perfects, you can spend more but I don't think you can get a better trout reel. I still use my US made Pfleugers too. Just purchased a new Peerless, haven't strung it up yet. Sure is pretty though. I was thinking that things were out of hand when I started to see 4 wt reels with a disc drag, I suppose this makes a 38H Leonard into a 'light' tarpon rig! [:)] A.J. From: "Adam Vigil" CC: "rodmakers" Subject: In defence of Hardy reelsDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:09:52 -0800 In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades.They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I havefished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH,Marquisand a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now we havemany reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design because itisso well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been inthe last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. Andif you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared to thecurrent trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again you couldsay the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt canerod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX 9'4wtwith a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do, and have a good reputation while selling right next to what is technicallybetter in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rodsI do anyhow. Tony _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Dec 4 02:07:18 2001 fB487GH26906 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 02:07:17 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:07:13 +1100 Subject: Re: Filing Nodes FILETIME=[AE47E680:01C17C9A] Kyle: looks like you are right! Sean KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: The cane arrived today and I am starting to file nodes for the first time. Iam using the WC book and the list as my guide. On page 13 of the WC bookitshows two pictures that are supposed to be the before and after filingpictures of the nodes. Look carefully at the captions and the pictures...isn't the picture on the right the before picture and the one on the left theafter picture? Seems like the captions are reversed, I would like toconfirmthis... I have the 2000 version of the WC book, might be the same for priorversions. Thanks, Kyle from seanmcs@iprimus.com.au Tue Dec 4 03:55:10 2001 fB49t8H28423 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 03:55:09 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:55:04 +1100 petermckean@netspace.net.au,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels FILETIME=[BF82EB70:01C17CA9] Good shot AJ. Sean Allen Thramer wrote: I too remember when the choice was a Pfleuger or a Hardy. Saw way toomanysteelhead landed with an old 1495 1/2 or a 1498 to think either one was amistake. Love my Perfects, you can spend more but I don't think you cangeta better trout reel. I still use my US made Pfleugers too. Just purchased anew Peerless, haven't strung it up yet. Sure is pretty though. I wasthinking that things were out of hand when I started to see 4 wt reels witha disc drag, I suppose this makes a 38H Leonard into a 'light' tarpon rig![:)] A.J. From: "Adam Vigil" CC: "rodmakers" Subject: In defence of Hardy reelsDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:09:52 -0800 from nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Dec 4 04:27:13 2001 fB4ARCH28854 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 04:27:12 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 06:28:08 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods petermckean@netspace.net.au,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Yeah,I keep waiting for that 35 pound brookie to pounce on my fly so I cantryout that freight train drag on my Teton #3 that I use on my little 6' 3" 2 wt!!! ;^)I keep asking myself......WHY?????Shawn Allen Thramer wrote: I too remember when the choice was a Pfleuger or a Hardy. Saw way toomanysteelhead landed with an old 1495 1/2 or a 1498 to think either one was amistake. Love my Perfects, you can spend more but I don't think you cangeta better trout reel. I still use my US made Pfleugers too. Just purchased anew Peerless, haven't strung it up yet. Sure is pretty though. I wasthinking that things were out of hand when I started to see 4 wt reels witha disc drag, I suppose this makes a 38H Leonard into a 'light' tarpon rig![:)] A.J. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 4 04:31:01 2001 fB4AUtH29085 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 04:30:55 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Then again I've been broken off at the spool twice using a Princess and I ask the same question. Tony At 06:30 AM 12/4/01 -0500, Shawn Pineo wrote: Yeah,I keep waiting for that 35 pound brookie to pounce on my fly so I can tryout that freight train drag on my Teton #3 that I use on my little 6' 3" 2 wt !!!;^)I keep asking myself......WHY?????Shawn Allen Thramer wrote: I too remember when the choice was a Pfleuger or a Hardy. Saw way toomanysteelhead landed with an old 1495 1/2 or a 1498 to think either one wasamistake. Love my Perfects, you can spend more but I don't think you cangeta better trout reel. I still use my US made Pfleugers too. Just purchasedanew Peerless, haven't strung it up yet. Sure is pretty though. I wasthinking that things were out of hand when I started to see 4 wt reelswitha disc drag, I suppose this makes a 38H Leonard into a 'light' tarpon rig![:)] A.J. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from "Marty D. aka \"none" Tue Dec 4 05:27:33 2001 fB4BRWH00075 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:27:33 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4173. . Clean. Processed in 1.645695 secs); 04 Dec 200111:15:31 -0000 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I find the Hardy lightweight series and Orvis CFO (hardy) to be as good orbetter then any of those Disc Drag reels made today. There is not a Troutthatswims that can't be landed with a click drag. Disc drags are for Salmon andsalt. Marty Adam Vigil wrote: In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades.They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I havefished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH,Marquisand a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now wehavemany reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design becauseit isso well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been inthe last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. Andif you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared tothecurrent trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again youcouldsay the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt canerod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX9'4wtwith a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do,andhave a good reputation while selling right next to what is technicallybetter in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rodsI do anyhow. Tony from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Dec 4 08:13:26 2001 fB4EDPt02899 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:13:25 -0600 Subject: Reel seats I am refinishing an old 8'6" 3 piece rod, it had a stainless steal lockingreel seat which came of fairly easy, under the metal is a wood spacer whichwill not come off. My question is what is the standard size hole for a reelseat / insert? I want to remove enough of this spacer as to slide a new woodreel seat on. Thanks, Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 4 08:40:47 2001 fB4Eejt04015 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:40:46 -0600 Subject: Re: I've looked at words from both sides now... Anybody interested in knowing the tool used to remove dam walls and nodes http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/photos%20501-550/0545.html In truth I use the same machine to remove the dam walls as well as nodes on a rod I made fro my own use. Works great but the exposed "grain" associated with serious sanding of the bamboo wouldn't pass muster in the US (I don't think, at least not the node pressing population anyhow).Linishers are not what would come to mind right off when it comes to fine work on anything softer than steel apart from using fine grade belts. Tony At 07:08 AM 12/4/01 -0500, arthur port wrote: (With apologies to Joni Mitchell)Thanks, Tony.It must be Aussie or technospeak. I can't find it in either of twointernational dictionaries! Noun OR Verb."Two peoples separated by a common language" : Churchill? Bob Hope?Anyway, now I can confound people with another new word!Take care,Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Dec 4 08:54:41 2001 fB4Eset04674 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:54:40 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16BGy0-0001Yb-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:54:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Filing Nodes kyle,you did well. i read the book four or five times, then went to garrisonand mauer to double check. it only took me a few months to figure it out,but hey, i filed the nodes anyway. you got to get to feel the bamboo.there are new techniques for treating nodes, splitting, soaking, andheat treating. check the archives. do it out of the book and then try someof the other methods.good luck and have fun.mike from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 4 08:59:10 2001 fB4Ex9t05070 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:59:09 -0600 helo=default) id 16BH2J-0002TJ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:59:08 -0500 Subject: Re: I've looked at words from both sides now... Looks to me to be what we'd call a belt sander. The word linisher, or theverb 'linish', does have possibilities though. Imagine the heat of anargument, and one guy says, "How'd you like your a** linished, boy?" or"You're fixin' to get yourself a good a** linishing if you don't shut up."or . . . endless possibilities for the limited mind. Art, you payingattention here? M-D Anybody interested in knowing the tool used to remove dam walls andnodes link: http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/photos%20501-550/0545.html In truth I use the same machine to remove the dam walls as well as nodes on a rod I made fro my own use. Works great but the exposed "grain" associated with serious sanding of the bamboo wouldn't pass muster in the US (I don'tthink, at least not the node pressing population anyhow).Linishers are not what would come to mind right off when it comes to finework on anything softer than steel apart from using fine grade belts. Tony At 07:08 AM 12/4/01 -0500, arthur port wrote: (With apologies to Joni Mitchell)Thanks, Tony.It must be Aussie or technospeak. I can't find it in either of twointernational dictionaries! Noun OR Verb."Two peoples separated by a common language" : Churchill? Bob Hope?Anyway, now I can confound people with another new word!Take care,Art from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 4 09:03:14 2001 fB4F3Ct05536 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:03:12 -0600 Subject: Re: I've looked at words from both sides now... Hi Ron,try this:http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/Resources/0545.jpg Tony At 07:55 AM 12/4/01 -0700, you wrote: Tony I can't get this link to work!Thanks Ron /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 4 09:04:19 2001 fB4F4Ht05696 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:04:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Filing Nodes What you really need is a linisher !!! Only joking Tony At 09:53 AM 12/4/01 -0600, mike canazon wrote: kyle,you did well. i read the book four or five times, then went to garrisonand mauer to double check. it only took me a few months to figure it out,but hey, i filed the nodes anyway. you got to get to feel the bamboo.there are new techniques for treating nodes, splitting, soaking, andheat treating. check the archives. do it out of the book and then try someof the other methods.good luck and have fun.mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 4 09:08:32 2001 fB4F8Rt06228 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:08:27 -0600 helo=default) id 16BHBG-0004St-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:08:23 -0500 Subject: Re: I've looked at words from both sides now... The original link worked fine for me. Looks as though Ron is all linishedup. M-D Hi Ron,try this:http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/Resources/0545.jpg Tony At 07:55 AM 12/4/01 -0700, you wrote: Tony I can't get this link to work!Thanks Ron from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 4 09:11:33 2001 fB4FBVt06566 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:11:31 -0600 Subject: Re: I've looked at words from both sides now... A belt sander as far as the usage of the term I've always taken it to be is the portable jobbie while the pedestal or fixed one with more grunt was the linisher. I guess the linisher is portable too in a way but it'd take a pretty big tool box and be a bitch to get around the job with. Your other meanings do have merit though. Looks like you could insert linished where shellac(ing) is ordinarily used. Sort of like Australia gave NZ a real shellacking in the cricket (not this test series but in general you understand) :-)) You could say the Wallabies linished the Barbarians recently etc etc. Or Bin Laden will soon be given a shellacking followed by a jolly good public linishing. Tony At 08:51 AM 12/4/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Looks to me to be what we'd call a belt sander. The word linisher, or theverb 'linish', does have possibilities though. Imagine the heat of anargument, and one guy says, "How'd you like your a** linished, boy?" or"You're fixin' to get yourself a good a** linishing if you don't shut up."or . . . endless possibilities for the limited mind. Art, you payingattention here? M-D From: "Tony Young" Anybody interested in knowing the tool used to remove dam walls andnodes link: http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/photos%20501-550/0545.html In truth I use the same machine to remove the dam walls as well as nodes on a rod I made fro my own use. Works great but the exposed "grain" associated with serious sanding of the bamboo wouldn't pass muster in the US (Idon'tthink, at least not the node pressing population anyhow).Linishers are not what would come to mind right off when it comes tofinework on anything softer than steel apart from using fine grade belts. Tony At 07:08 AM 12/4/01 -0500, arthur port wrote: (With apologies to Joni Mitchell)Thanks, Tony.It must be Aussie or technospeak. I can't find it in either of twointernational dictionaries! Noun OR Verb."Two peoples separated by a common language" : Churchill? Bob Hope?Anyway, now I can confound people with another new word!Take care,Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Dec 4 09:15:14 2001 fB4FFDt07034 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:15:14 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16BHHt-00063b-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:15:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Filing Nodes "What you really need is a linisher !!! Only joking Tony" in america you would have to drink two six packs and a bottle of oldgrand dad to say that properly. and i'm sure you could pick up a lot ofwomen with that linemike from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Dec 4 09:28:05 2001 fB4FS5t07828 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:28:05 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:27:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Cane Scrapers "Rodmakers discussion group" Guys, Carr. They are listed in the Rodmaker Suppliers. Scraper cost about $4.00 @ the time. Trouble is with the blade is that I got wavy lines alongthe shaft as the enamel scarped off. The folks @ the school use the steel banding that fence posts among otherthings come wrapped with as scrapers. They cut them in 4" pieces. Cheaptoo!! catch ya' Don At 04:16 PM 12/3/01 -0500, John Long wrote: Reed, Good idea! I will try it. A putty knife would be easy and quick to puta burl on also. Glad I thought of that...... John ----- Original Message ----- From: Reed Curry Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 2:28 PM Cc: Jojo DeLancier; Rodmakers discussion group Subject: Re: John, I use the side of a flexible putty knife, this gives me a good handle to work with. Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ John Long wrote: M-D, Never tried one of those. The side of a plane blade will take just about everything in one pass. I use it for clean-up after gluing also. It really works well. ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Dec 4 09:31:52 2001 fB4FVpt08283 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:31:51 -0600 Subject: Rod Identification Guys, My thanks for all those that pointed me in the right direction. regards, Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Dec 4 09:39:02 2001 fB4Fd2t08808 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:39:02 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 07:38:53 -0800 Subject: Plane difference FILETIME=[C719D170:01C17CD9] To all,I owe an apology to everyone for being a smartass yesterday. No attempt =was made to belittle or insult anyone. No more sipping on line. Toall, = N= from caneman@clnk.com Tue Dec 4 10:10:58 2001 fB4GAvt10634 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:10:57 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels There is not a Trout that swims that can't belanded with a click drag. Disc drags are forSalmon and salt. Marty Marty, drag... on the other hand, I sure wish you could come down South and hit theWhite, Little Red and Norfork rivers in AR with me sometime in the fall.I've been spooled MANY times by browns that look like Lemon Sharks cruisingthe water! When they strike, it's kinda like hooking up with a Kawasaki!We're not talking Cruiser here! We're talking Top Fuel Drag Bike!!!HARRY... TELL THEM ABOUT YOUR BOAT TRIP OUT WITH TOM! LMAO Thegoodreverend knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about! WHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*SNAP* Personally, I've had bloody fingernails from letting them get tooclose to the handle on the reel (a lesson learned quickly and a mistake notrepeated). M-D, you chime in here, too. I'm sure as much as you fish theLittle Red, that you've had your reel unexpectedly B!#ch Slapped by a few ofthose Arkie monsters. Problem down here is that you may be standing on anice peaceful shoal landing 12 to 16 inch bows, cutts and brookies, then allof a sudden, you're hooked up with a 12, 14, 16 or even 20 pound brown!(record here is 40 pounds 4 ounces, also the world record, and a bioligist from AR Fish and Game told me that there ARE a surpising number of biggerfish that that in all three of the above mentioned rivers)Back to the point of the post, I see no need for a disc drag on a reelhanging on 2 through 5 wt rods in "most" cases. As we say in Oklahoma"kinda like putting a side saddle on a hog"... the point is, it might lookpretty on him, but what lady is going to ride him? But if you're going tofish those three rivers, a min of a 5 or 6 wt with a good disc drag reel isnot a bad thing to have, JUST IN CASE the big dogs come to visit while yourfishing for puppies. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 4 10:59:07 2001 fB4Gx6t13307 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:59:06 -0600 (authenticated) Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:58:39 -0800 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Bob Nunley wrote: I've been spooled MANY times by browns that look like Lemon Sharkscruisingthe water! When they strike, it's kinda like hooking up with a Kawasaki!We're not talking Cruiser here! We're talking Top Fuel Drag Bike!!!HARRY... TELL THEM ABOUT YOUR BOAT TRIP OUT WITH TOM! Bob,You're exactly right. For those who haven't heard this story I'll tell itagain. Tom Rogers, a good friend of mine, guides on the White and NorforkRivers below Bull Shoals and Norfork Dams in Arkansas. He has a system forbigfish that works well when a shad kill in the lakes sends the fish into a feedingfrenzy. On the day before SRG '98, Tom and I hooked up together. He kepttelling me "You'll need a big reel with lots of backing, I promise. We fishwith 15 lb. leaders, too." The biggest reel/line I had was a 7 weight with 200yards of backing. We caught several nice fish, in the 16" - 20" range, andthen, before I knew what was happening, I hooked a rainbow that must havebeen30". In less time than you can imagine, that fish spooled me, and "ping!" wentthe backing knot. Good bye fly line. An expensive lesson. (obilgatoryrodmaking comment -- I was just glad to have held on to my rod. You can'trepair a rod lost on the bottom of the river.) Still, I trout fish 99% of the time w/o a disc drag. I've just decided thatI'm willing to take the risk of getting spooled once in a while. It definitelymakes for a good fishing story. Those big White River browns and rainbowshavecost me a few busted knuckles, but so far I've lived to tell about it...Now when I hooked up with a 10' alligator in the Louisiana swamp... Harry--Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Dec 4 11:10:52 2001 fB4HApt14127 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:10:51 -0600 fB4HAkY20713 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:10:46 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels It seems that the only time I can hook into these monsters is when I am usingmythree weight.Have been spooled several times.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: There is not a Trout that swims that can't belanded with a click drag. Disc drags are forSalmon and salt. Marty Marty, drag... on the other hand, I sure wish you could come down South and hittheWhite, Little Red and Norfork rivers in AR with me sometime in the fall.I've been spooled MANY times by browns that look like Lemon Sharkscruisingthe water! When they strike, it's kinda like hooking up with a Kawasaki!We're not talking Cruiser here! We're talking Top Fuel Drag Bike!!!HARRY... TELL THEM ABOUT YOUR BOAT TRIP OUT WITH TOM! LMAO Thegoodreverend knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about! WHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*SNAP* Personally, I've had bloody fingernails from letting them get tooclose to the handle on the reel (a lesson learned quickly and a mistake notrepeated). M-D, you chime in here, too. I'm sure as much as you fish theLittle Red, that you've had your reel unexpectedly B!#ch Slapped by a fewofthose Arkie monsters. Problem down here is that you may be standing onanice peaceful shoal landing 12 to 16 inch bows, cutts and brookies, then allof a sudden, you're hooked up with a 12, 14, 16 or even 20 pound brown!(record here is 40 pounds 4 ounces, also the world record, and a bioligist from AR Fish and Game told me that there ARE a surpising number ofbiggerfish that that in all three of the above mentioned rivers)Back to the point of the post, I see no need for a disc drag on a reelhanging on 2 through 5 wt rods in "most" cases. As we say in Oklahoma"kinda like putting a side saddle on a hog"... the point is, it might lookpretty on him, but what lady is going to ride him? But if you're going tofish those three rivers, a min of a 5 or 6 wt with a good disc drag reel isnot a bad thing to have, JUST IN CASE the big dogs come to visit while yourfishing for puppies. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Marty D. aka "none" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:23 AMSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Dec 4 11:34:13 2001 fB4HYDt15539 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:34:13 -0600 fB4HYBY24847 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:34:11 -0600 Subject: Jim Tefft needs help Jim Tefft wrote: Tony,Is there something wrong with the rodmakers list ? Since I went nomail on Thursday and tried to reset it to get mail I have had no response from either the list or the listserver.Jim T Tony wrote Do you want me to post a message about trying to get back on.Tony Jim Tefft wroteIf you would, Tony. At least they will know therestill are problems. Couldbe something has gotten to the server and they aretrying to straighten itout.jim from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Dec 4 12:17:45 2001 fB4IHit18066 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:17:44 -0600 Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:17:40 PST Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu The working assumption I started with was "the reel is just to holdline and I'm not going to get a better reel until I actually losesome fish because of it". I now predominanly use click drags for my small stream fishing stillmy favorite) and Galvan discs for 5's and up. The Galvan isdecidedly NOT a freight train stopper, but a finely adjustableinstrument. I think that part of the backlash against dics comes from experiences like I had with the old Ross Gunnisons - heavy dragthat is not finely adjustable. Jerry --- "Marty D. aka \"none" wrote: I find the Hardy lightweight series and Orvis CFO (hardy) to be asgood orbetter then any of those Disc Drag reels made today. There is nota Trout thatswims that can't be landed with a click drag. Disc drags are forSalmon andsalt. Marty Adam Vigil wrote: In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades. They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I have fished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH, Marquis and a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now we have many reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design because it is so well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been in the last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. And if you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared to the current trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again you could say the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt cane rod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX 9'4wt with a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do, and have a good reputation while selling right next to what is technically better in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rods I do anyhow. Tony __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Dec 4 12:39:22 2001 fB4IdLt20692 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:39:21 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:26:06 -0600 Subject: RE: In defence of Hardy reels If anyone is interested in a reel with a strong drag that is infinitelysmooth and adjustable, try out the Lamson LiteSpeeds. You cannot backlashthat reel at any but the lightest setting, even if you are trying to. Andthe large arbor may look funny, but if you are in the position of beingspooled, which looks funnier -- your reel, or your face with sweat runningdown your nose as you crank trying to keep up with the slack line.... Biased only by performance, no financial bla bla..... TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels The working assumption I started with was "the reel is just to holdline and I'm not going to get a better reel until I actually losesome fish because of it". I now predominanly use click drags for my small stream fishing stillmy favorite) and Galvan discs for 5's and up. The Galvan isdecidedly NOT a freight train stopper, but a finely adjustableinstrument. I think that part of the backlash against dics comes from experiences like I had with the old Ross Gunnisons - heavy dragthat is not finely adjustable. Jerry from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Dec 4 12:47:28 2001 fB4IlSt22738 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:47:28 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels The smoothest drag I have found is on the Johnson Magnetic. I have five of these and appreciate the silent dependable drag that never overruns and the ease of slipping a finger onto the spool for those hard charging fish. Alas, I have not had necessity to use that feature. (Sigh...)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Miller, Troy wrote: If anyone is interested in a reel with a strong drag that is infinitelysmooth and adjustable, try out the Lamson LiteSpeeds. You cannotbacklashthat reel at any but the lightest setting, even if you are trying to. Andthe large arbor may look funny, but if you are in the position of beingspooled, which looks funnier -- your reel, or your face with sweat runningdown your nose as you crank trying to keep up with the slack line.... Biased only by performance, no financial bla bla..... TAM from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Dec 4 13:29:44 2001 fB4JTct28568 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:29:38 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:29:36 +0000 Peter McKean ,rodmakers Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels A few Hardy outlets have been selling off the repro Bugle or whatever itis called ?) and the repro St George for about £100 UK sterling lessthan the normal rrp............Paul Tony Young wrote: I guess, but I own a few Hardy reels and never use them. Don't want to sellthem either just yet because I don't need to. I also have a few reels made Young Reflex 1445 that cost about $45 new I wouldn't be without on mycopyof a Dickerson 7614. The Hardy reels are well finished for sure but asreels I don't like them and have come to the conclusion price hasabsolutely nothing to do with usefulness for trout reels, looks and aurayes, usefulness no.Actually something I was told that may be untrue but is worth looking intoif you like Hardy reels is due to the difficulty of actually getting to thestreams in the UK just now due to F&M Hardy have reduced the WS pricesoftheir reels to keep production going at pre F&M levels. This may not betrue and there may also no longer be a problem getting to the streams inthe UK either but may be worth looking into if you were interested ingetting a Hardy or two cheap(er). Tony At 07:09 PM 12/3/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding fordecades.They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I havefished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH,Marquisand a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Nowwe havemany reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design becauseit isso well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been inthe last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under.Andif you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared tothecurrent trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again youcouldsay the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wtcanerod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX9'4wtwith a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do,andhave a good reputation while selling right next to what is technicallybetter in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case ofrodsI do anyhow. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxenor 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing /*************************************************************************/ from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Tue Dec 4 13:31:05 2001 fB4JV5t28989 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:31:05 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:31:32 -0500 Subject: RE: In defence of Hardy reels Hi, What does the list think of Charlton reels? Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Dec 4 13:40:03 2001 fB4Je2t01168 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:40:02 -0600 fB4Je0Y14834 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:40:00 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Noe white river biguns Well, a few times any way, I just hate when the reel sings and the tippet goes"Pop".I have landed my biggest trout on the 3 wt.A 3 3/4 LB Brown and a 5 3/4 lb Rainbow. Have taken some larger trout onthe 5 wt.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Tony, Thought about you as I wrote that last story. With your proximity to theseRivers, I bet it HAS happened to you quite often... Harry Tony Spezio wrote: It seems that the only time I can hook into these monsters is when I amusing mythree weight.Have been spooled several times.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: There is not a Trout that swims that can't belanded with a click drag. Disc drags are forSalmon and salt. Marty Marty, drag... on the other hand, I sure wish you could come down South andhit theWhite, Little Red and Norfork rivers in AR with me sometime in the fall.I've been spooled MANY times by browns that look like Lemon Sharkscruisingthe water! When they strike, it's kinda like hooking up with a Kawasaki!We're not talking Cruiser here! We're talking Top Fuel Drag Bike!!!HARRY... TELL THEM ABOUT YOUR BOAT TRIP OUT WITH TOM! LMAO Thegoodreverend knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about! WHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*SNAP* Personally, I've had bloody fingernails from letting them gettooclose to the handle on the reel (a lesson learned quickly and a mistakenotrepeated). M-D, you chime in here, too. I'm sure as much as you fishtheLittle Red, that you've had your reel unexpectedly B!#ch Slapped by afew ofthose Arkie monsters. Problem down here is that you may be standingon anice peaceful shoal landing 12 to 16 inch bows, cutts and brookies,then allof a sudden, you're hooked up with a 12, 14, 16 or even 20 poundbrown!(record here is 40 pounds 4 ounces, also the world record, and abioligist from AR Fish and Game told me that there ARE a surpising number ofbiggerfish that that in all three of the above mentioned rivers)Back to the point of the post, I see no need for a disc drag on a reelhanging on 2 through 5 wt rods in "most" cases. As we say inOklahoma"kinda like putting a side saddle on a hog"... the point is, it might lookpretty on him, but what lady is going to ride him? But if you're going tofish those three rivers, a min of a 5 or 6 wt with a good disc drag reelisnot a bad thing to have, JUST IN CASE the big dogs come to visit whileyourfishing for puppies. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Marty D. aka "none" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:23 AMSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 4 13:53:01 2001 fB4Jr0t02227 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:53:00 -0600 (authenticated) Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:52:37 -0800 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I wrote: before I knew what was happening, I hooked a rainbow that must have been30". In less time than you can imagine, that fish spooled me, and "ping!"wentthe backing knot. Guess I should have added that a disc drag would probably have made littledifference to this fish. I was palming for all I am worth, and he still spooledme. I don't think I could have stopped him with a Warn Winch. I still blameTomRogers -- it was his fault for not getting the boat started fast enough tofollowthe fish. Moral of this story -- Every fisherman has an excuse. Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Dec 4 14:32:11 2001 fB4KWAt04406 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:32:10 -0600 id ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:25:43 -0500 id XJNZT6Q1; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:25:37 -0500 Subject: Virus alert! Just to let all of you know. There is a new virus. It is called theGoner virus. If you get a message with an gone.scr attachment, that'sthe one. I'm not infected here at work (yet), but there are a bunch ofpeople who are.-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Dec 4 14:39:28 2001 Received: fB4KdQt04935 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent5.5.3.1 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 13:39:14 -0700 from: "James Harris" , "rodsupstream@exploremaine.com", "rcurry@ttlc.net" 2001 20:35:41.0312 (UTC) FILETIME=[3D7DE800:01C17D03] Content- Transfer-Encoding: 8bit fB4KdRt04938 Tim, I traded a blank to one of the local fly shops for a Charlton configurable. Icouldn't justify the loss of that mush cash! They are beautifully finished andsuperbly engineered. The drag is one of the finest I've felt. The moststriking feature to me is how everything about these reels (finish, bearings,drag...) is buttery smooth. I don't use it on any of my fresh water rodshowever. I use it for Sea Trout and Covina down at the estuaries near RockyPoint, Mex. In fresh water I prefer my Hardy Flyweight for small streamsand ATH/Hart reels for everything else. If I had the money I'd like to try oneof the smaller Charlton though. "Tim Doughty" 12/04/01 12:35PM Hi, What does the list think of Charlton reels? Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Dec 4 14:50:17 2001 fB4KoGt05822 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:50:16 -0600 Subject: Hardy reels To the ListHardy reels need no defence. Bill To the List Bill from jerryy@webtv.net Tue Dec 4 15:22:41 2001 fB4LMet07890 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:22:40 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id NAA27439; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:07:05 - ETAsAhQ3XPARLlA/qfTyLjVuHQzLybpnbgIUBCQb/hdp1Kl7tvhZG/HqGilfQ4w= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (Rodmakers)Subject: RE: In defence of Hardy reels Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:35:11 -0500 Jim Charlton did a great job on my 2550 with three different wt. spools.First person that I have met that understands you don't put titaniumright next to stainless steel in a saltwater reel, everything isbordered with brass to prevent the violent galvanic reaction that canresult. The drag would stop a box car. Last year in Alaska I had anAble .5 blow up on a very large rainbow. Had to send it back to berebuilt. Now I fish those rainbows with a Billy Pate Trout reel. Regards, Jerry Young from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 4 16:14:21 2001 fB4MELt11175 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:14:21 -0600 helo=default) id 16BNpT-0005Gv-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:14:20 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I'd agree in part with Marty, too, but having fished all the waters Bobmentions as though fishing them was some kind of religion, and having hungsome of those bigguns, doing so with both click and pawl reels and dragreels, I must say that I prefer the drag reel. I fish almost exclusivelywith a 4 wt. The main difference between the two reels, other than theobvious, is that the drag reel wears the fish down with less effort on mypart, which is no small blessing with those Browns. Another factor in allthis is correct use of the rod when fighting a fish. Use of the "Orvis"method of highsticking will guarantee many things, none of which includeslanding the fish. If I had my druthers, I'd rather use a reel with a drag,but since almost no smaller reel has them, and the ones that do don't lookgood on bamboo, I'm relegated to using a click and pawl. I'd like to saythat I suffer in silence, but that damn clicking in my ears won't go away. M-D There is not a Trout that swims that can't belanded with a click drag. Disc drags are forSalmon and salt. Marty Marty, drag... on the other hand, I sure wish you could come down South and hit the White, Little Red and Norfork rivers in AR with me sometime in the fall.I've been spooled MANY times by browns that look like Lemon Sharks cruising the water! When they strike, it's kinda like hooking up with a Kawasaki!We're not talking Cruiser here! We're talking Top Fuel Drag Bike!!!HARRY... TELL THEM ABOUT YOUR BOAT TRIP OUT WITH TOM! LMAO Thegoodreverend knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about! WHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*SNAP* Personally, I've had bloody fingernails from letting them get tooclose to the handle on the reel (a lesson learned quickly and a mistake not repeated). M-D, you chime in here, too. I'm sure as much as you fish the Little Red, that you've had your reel unexpectedly B!#ch Slapped by a few of those Arkie monsters. Problem down here is that you may be standing onanice peaceful shoal landing 12 to 16 inch bows, cutts and brookies, then all of a sudden, you're hooked up with a 12, 14, 16 or even 20 pound brown!(record here is 40 pounds 4 ounces, also the world record, and a bioligist from AR Fish and Game told me that there ARE a surpising number ofbiggerfish that that in all three of the above mentioned rivers)Back to the point of the post, I see no need for a disc drag on a reelhanging on 2 through 5 wt rods in "most" cases. As we say in Oklahoma"kinda like putting a side saddle on a hog"... the point is, it might lookpretty on him, but what lady is going to ride him? But if you're going tofish those three rivers, a min of a 5 or 6 wt with a good disc drag reel is not a bad thing to have, JUST IN CASE the big dogs come to visit while your fishing for puppies. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Marty D. aka "none" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:23 AMSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels from pohl@earthlink.net Tue Dec 4 16:17:37 2001 fB4MHZt11549 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:17:36 -0600 helo=pohl) id 16BNsc-00075e-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 14:17:35 -0800 Subject: Monro Has anyone used Monro planing forms? What is their quality and accuracy? =- Mark BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Has anyone used Monro planing = their quality and accuracy? -Mark from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 4 16:51:56 2001 fB4Mptt13249 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:51:56 -0600 helo=default) id 16BOPq-0006BL-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:51:55 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I love my Galvan reel. You're right, it's no train stopper, but the fineadjustments possible are a wonderful thing. With most reels I would neveradjust the drag with a big fish on, but I've done it several times with theGalvan, simply because of those minute clicks. All I have to remember iswhich way to turn it. ;o) M-D The working assumption I started with was "the reel is just to holdline and I'm not going to get a better reel until I actually losesome fish because of it". I now predominanly use click drags for my small stream fishing stillmy favorite) and Galvan discs for 5's and up. The Galvan isdecidedly NOT a freight train stopper, but a finely adjustableinstrument. I think that part of the backlash against dics comes from experiences like I had with the old Ross Gunnisons - heavy dragthat is not finely adjustable. Jerry --- "Marty D. aka \"none" wrote: I find the Hardy lightweight series and Orvis CFO (hardy) to be asgood orbetter then any of those Disc Drag reels made today. There is nota Trout thatswims that can't be landed with a click drag. Disc drags are forSalmon andsalt. Marty Adam Vigil wrote: In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades. They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I have fished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH, Marquis and a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now we have many reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design because it is so well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been in the last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. And if you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared to the current trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again you could say the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt cane rod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX 9'4wt with a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do, and have a good reputation while selling right next to what is technically better in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rods I do anyhow. Tony __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Dec 4 16:59:59 2001 fB4Mxwt13767 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:59:58 -0600 ([209.178.135.182] helo=g2t8c9) id 16BOXa-00033s-00; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 14:59:55 -0800 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Tim, One of the finest pieces of fly rod machinery made. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: In defence of Hardy reels Hi, What does the list think of Charlton reels? Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Dec 4 17:27:17 2001 fB4NRHt15066 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:27:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Virus alert! Hi guys,I just wanted to let anyone interested in this antivirusprogram to know about it. The guy that writes are computer column for the news paper, said that the best anti virus programout there, was this one. And it is free. I downloaded it and installed it into my computer. I ran a complete scan of my harddrive and it found two viruses in there, that my expensiveNorton System had missed.It removed the viruses and is now on full time, protectingmy computer. This is free and also has free updates. It looksto be a very good program. You my want to check it out. It is at www.grisoft.com Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.htmlCheck out new tools for 2002 from briansr@point-net.com Tue Dec 4 18:42:00 2001 fB50fwt17763 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:41:59 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:55:19 -0500 "Peter McKean" Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Tried a lot of reels from Bogdan,Vom Hofe'sto Lamsons.Favourite three reels for the past few years are Noel on my8wt,Marquis#6Multiplier(thank's Bob :-)) on the 4wt,and a Marquis Salmon#2on the 7/8 wt Spey rod.The two Marquis reels are older models and for theMourice Noel ,I put the same size springs as Bogdan uses,making a dramaticimprovement(as ggod now as a Bogdan,but a lot lighter AND nicely finished.)I only have one Dave Robichaud reel and as it's mint,it'll probably never befished.IMHO it's really too bad that Dave couldn't make a go of itThat all being said, reel choices are VERY subjective and IMHOs just IMHOs .Cheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: In defence of Hardy reels In defense of Hardy reels, I have several of them and they have performed outstanding for decades.They are very light and the click pawl drag is smooth and even. I havefished and owned CFO 1-3, Sunbeam, Fly weight, feather weight, LRH, Marquis and a perfect. I remember when the choice was Pflueger or Hardy. Now we have many reels to choose from and many have copied the CFO design becauseit is so well loved. Sure $225 is a lot for a fly reel. But it has only been inthe last several years a quality reel has been made for $100 or under. Andif you want a light reel for you light cane rod a fly weight orfeatherweight can not be touched in quality or weight when compared tothecurrent trend of heavy reels. Sure you can buy a stronger and better priced reel but then again you could say the same thing when it comes to cane rods vs. graphite. A 7'4wt canerod with a featherweight is more wonderful to fish with then an a GLX 9'4wt with a Galvan. I know because I own both. Adam Vigil Don't you find it hard to define how Hardy can make the stuff they do, and have a good reputation while selling right next to what is technicallybetter in the case of reels and possibly made better in the case of rodsI do anyhow. Tony from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Dec 4 18:45:17 2001 fB50jFt18028 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:45:15 -0600 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:44:51 -0500 MAILINID410-1204194451; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:44:51 -0500 Subject: Flaming/Soaking/Heat Treating List, Is it possible to include the steps of flaming, soaking, and heat treating all inthe same rod making process? Seems that all three can provide usefulbenefits to the finished product. The problem I have is that I am not sure if these three processes arecompatible with one another. Does soaking somehow diminish the effects offlaming? Do you need to heat treat before soaking? Will heat treatmentafter soaking/pressing cause the nodes to pop back out? Thanks for any advice you can offer before I start on this first rod, Kyle from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 4 19:23:03 2001 fB51N2t19093 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:23:02 -0600 helo=default) id 16BQm5-0004cz-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:23:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Flaming/Soaking/Heat Treating Kyle, I've used this procedure on quite a few rods, with no apparent problems.After the culm was split into its approximate halves, the nodes filed/sandedsomewhat, I grind out the inner dams with a 90Ÿ angle die grinder and a 1"drum with 36 grit sanding sleeve. I then flame first the outside, then theinside of the culm half. I split into strips, then soak the strips for 3days minimum, afterwards working the nodes. Then its on to the roughbeveler, bind, then heat treat.Whether the nodes pop back after heat treating is dependent upon how goodajob was done on the nodes in the first place. M-D List, Is it possible to include the steps of flaming, soaking, and heat treating all in the same rod making process? Seems that all three can provide usefulbenefits to the finished product. The problem I have is that I am not sure if these three processes are compatible with one another. Does soaking somehow diminish the effects offlaming? Do you need to heat treat before soaking? Will heat treatmentafter soaking/pressing cause the nodes to pop back out? Thanks for any advice you can offer before I start on this first rod, Kyle from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Dec 4 19:29:43 2001 fB51Tht19462 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:29:43 -0600 id ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:28:03 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Flaming/Soaking/Heat Treating I do all three on each rod I produce.First I flame with a propane torch the intact culm.Then I split, stagger nodes, cut strips to size, and file nodes and dams.Then I soak 12 hours overnite, and straighten nodes with a heat gun.Then back into the water, strips coming out one at a time to be roughplaned.Air dry (the strips are always dry by the time they are roughly to size; thewet outer fibers all having been planed away).Then bind, heat treat in an oven.Then final plane the strips to specs. I have not have had a problem with nodes re-bending; nor have I had a rodtake a set (even though several of the trout rods have caught nativeDeschutes river steelhead - and landed them). Try everything until you find the methods that suit you best. Chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: Flaming/Soaking/Heat Treating List, Is it possible to include the steps of flaming, soaking, and heat treatingall in the same rod making process? Seems that all three can provide usefulbenefits to the finished product. The problem I have is that I am not sure if these three processes arecompatible with one another. Does soaking somehow diminish the effects offlaming? Do you need to heat treat before soaking? Will heat treatmentafter soaking/pressing cause the nodes to pop back out? Thanks for any advice you can offer before I start on this first rod, Kyle from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Dec 4 20:21:39 2001 fB52Lct21955 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:21:38 -0600 fB52Lbt02141 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:21:37 -0500 Subject: Re: In defenSe of Hardy reels On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Jojo DeLancier wrote: I love my Galvan reel. You're right, it's no train stopper, but the fineadjustments possible are a wonderful thing. With most reels I would neveradjust the drag with a big fish on, but I've done it several times with theGalvan, simply because of those minute clicks. All I have to remember iswhich way to turn it. ;o) As someone mentioned, the Galvan looks too modern for cane but I'msuprised noone mentioned the Old Florida Classics. Hardy Uniqua typelooks. Sold a few that went on cane. Finally got the tiny ones in. Fullcork drag, very smooth. FWIW I've been fishing my Bacon reel alot thisseason with a 3DT. Largest fish was a rainbow well over 5 pounds. Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Dec 4 21:00:26 2001 fB530Qt26555 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:00:26 -0600 Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:00:20 -0800 Wed, 05 Dec 2001 03:00:20 GMT petermckean@netspace.net.au,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels FILETIME=[FA049750:01C17D38] I think it comes out of the 'new and improved' marketing pointy heads. It sort of reminds me when I saw my first Geo Metro 'egg car' with power windows, turbocharger and air conditioning! LOLA.J. From: Shawn Pineo CC: atlasc1@earthlink.net, avyoung@iinet.net.au, petermckean@netspace.net.au, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reelsDate: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 06:30:54 -0500 Yeah,I keep waiting for that 35 pound brookie to pounce on my fly so I can tryout that freight train drag on my Teton #3 that I use on my little 6' 3" 2 wt !!!;^)I keep asking myself......WHY?????Shawn Allen Thramer wrote: I too remember when the choice was a Pfleuger or a Hardy. Saw way too many steelhead landed with an old 1495 1/2 or a 1498 to think either one was a mistake. Love my Perfects, you can spend more but I don't think you can get a better trout reel. I still use my US made Pfleugers too. Just purchased a new Peerless, haven't strung it up yet. Sure is pretty though. I wasthinking that things were out of hand when I started to see 4 wt reels with a disc drag, I suppose this makes a 38H Leonard into a 'light' tarpon rig! [:)] A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Tue Dec 4 21:41:24 2001 fB53fNt29350 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:41:23 -0600 Tue,4 Dec 2001 22:41:16 -0500 Subject: Quad conversions (a tad long) Yes. If you make say the Sir D as a quad at equal dimensions to the hex, itwill throw a 6 wtthrew a screen door. At .93 all the way down, it will be a pretty fastversion of the original. If you make the tip at .93 and then progress downto .87 or so in the butt, you will get a nice conversion, but it may beweaker in the butt than some like. Personally, I havebeen tapering down from .93 to about .90 in the butt. I like the stiffness.It all really depends on the action you are trying to match. This is basedon 5 or 6 rods I built on the conversion factor this year. The straight .93Sir D andDriggs were nice, and really quick. The straight .93 Para 15 was abroomstick, but some guys liked it. They were all guys who could casta broomstick if needed. The .93-.90 versions of the Driggs and Para 15 weremuch nicer.Something like this is what I mean...In a hex rod to quad conversion...Make the tip dimensions .93 of what the hex rod is.Make the butt section .93 at the ferrule, .92 at the 5" and 10" station( from the tip of butt ferrule), .91 at the 15" and 20" station ( from the tipof the butt ferrule), and the rest .9 of the hex size. Experimentwith tapering down the butt, but I would not go with a factor lower than .87or so. .90 seems to make a nice stiff butt, a good dry fly action. Paul Young Driggs 7'2" for 4/5 Stat Hex Quad0 .070 .065 (times .93)5 .091 .085 (times .93)10 .109 .101 (times .93)15 .127 .118 (times .93)20 .142 .132 (times .93)25 .152 .141 (times .93)30 .160 .149 (times .93)35 .185 .172 (times .93)40 .200 .186 (times .93)45 .211 .196 (times .93)50 .219 .201 (times .9255 .229 .211 (times .92)60 .245 .223 (times .91)65 .259 .236 (times .91)70 .264 .238 (times .90)75 .265 .239 (times .90)80 .265 .23986 .265 .239I have since given this up and have been building Edward's tapers and "myown" tapers further derived from the original conversions mentioned above. Ihave used Claude's spreadsheet to convert some tapers, but I have not reallyhad time to build these experimental rods yet.I am really more interested now in straight tapers as a basis for quads,tweaking here and there. I really see little use in trying to create afantastic quad from a hex taper. Why not just build the hex? (Just a devil'sadvocate sort of thought). I love quads, and do not get me wrong, but Ithink some of their appeal is real and some is imaginary. A good rod is agood rod, and it should track well. I really believe the Milward idea heproposes that you should be able to build just about any action into anyblank if you know the right factors to manipulate. I am trying to developsome totally from scratch quadrate tapers now because I think that willbetter unlock those factors for me.Best regards, Bob from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Dec 4 21:43:26 2001 fB53hPt29555 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:43:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Virus alert! Hi, I'm back again, Just in case, I thought I'd better mention, that my computerjust acted funny. When I turned it back on tonight, I got a blue screen that said, my "stacks" or something like that, were full,probably caused by something I had recently installed, and I should either go in and raise my stacks, or remove something. So, I uninstalled my Norton System for now. I don't thinkthis is a conflict between the two Anti-virus programs, I justdon't have enough stacks. What ever that means? Any one with computer savvy, probably knows what thatmeans. I don't! Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Tue Dec 4 22:23:48 2001 fB54Nmt01282 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:23:48 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4173. . Clean. Processed in 0.607648 secs); 05 Dec 200104:11:41 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.2509 Subject: Heddon Project rod list update Hello, put the remaining rods and parts on ebay. You can see them here ifinterested: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=oldtackle Thanks and I hope you all have a Merry Christmas (it's not too far away) The message board features free image uploads. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307C Effort PA 18330 610 681 5670 http://www.mikestevens.com http://www.OldTackle.com mstevens@ptdprolog.net mstevens@oldtackle.com Collector of Heddon Bamboo rodsJ.A. Coxe baitcasting reelsHeddon River Runt Spooks Maker of Fine Sights for Antique Single Shot TargetRifles from wkifer@harborside.com Tue Dec 4 22:37:53 2001 fB54bqt01802 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:37:53 -0600 Subject: Don't open attachment!! --=======E8B5558======= ascii; format=flowed Will someone get back to me and let me know if this arrives with an attachment? I haven't sent one. Wayne --=======E8B5558======= ok-41055422 ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 11/24/01 --=======E8B5558=======-- from wkifer@harborside.com Tue Dec 4 23:08:14 2001 fB558Dt02848 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:08:13 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Re: Don't open attachment!! --=======8D830B5======= ascii; format=flowed Thanks all for getting back to me. Apparently it's not a virus thank goodness. I'm running AVG on my system and my service provider also runs a virus scanner. I just finished wiping my hard drive and reinstalling everything and neither AVG or my service provider reports a virus. I can't figure out why my mail is going out with the attachment. I'm running Eudora. Any ideas? Wayne From: "Jojo DeLancier" Subject: Re: Don't open attachment!!Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:34:23 - 0600X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Wayne, It has an attachment, but I believe that they are only Internet headers androutings. Don't know why it's there, but it is. I opened your e-mail inanother window, but there wasn't an executable attachment there. M-D ---- --=======8D830B5======= ok-2B0D6BBB ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 11/24/01 --=======8D830B5=======-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 5 00:07:04 2001 fB5673t04378 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 00:07:03 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels That's not always true, you need to be able to at least palm the reel. In fact it's the fact the Perfectionist is caged and I've been spooled that made me a WF line fan so I can put more backing on the reels. In the end I just got some serious reels (no expensive ones by the way) and put the caged ones away. Tony There is not a Trout that swims that can't belanded with a click drag. Disc drags are forSalmon and salt. Marty /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 5 00:16:08 2001 fB56G6t04777 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 00:16:06 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Peter McKean ,rodmakers fB56G7t04778 I was In Tassie a few months back visiting my parents for a couple of days (quick visit, no fishing), there is a little tackle shop in the town they live in owned by a bloke who will only sell Hardy reels. Any time he sees me he hassles me about buying him out and he told me Hardy were selling reels a lot cheaper though none of the shops he knows of in Tassie or the mainland have dropped their retail prices because nobody much know about Hardy doing this it so you need to ask and do some horse trading but it may be worth while if you do like them.I'm not much interested in his tackle shop nor the reels I'm afraid [:-)] Tony At 07:27 PM 12/4/01 +0000, paul.blakley wrote: A few Hardy outlets have been selling off the repro Bugle or whatever itis called ?) and the repro St George for about £100 UK sterling lessthan the normal rrp............Paul /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 5 00:20:00 2001 fB56Jwt04969 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 00:19:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Hardy reels You mean they're plainly guilty as charged and indefensible :-)) Tony At 03:49 PM 12/4/01 -0500, William R. Fink wrote: To the ListHardy reels need no defence. Bill /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Dec 5 04:04:16 2001 fB5A4Et07807 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 04:04:15 -0600 fB5A43035829; Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Shawn I guess the answer to "Why" is that it is as easy to make a good reel with adrag that can be set from zero to freight train as it is to make one ofthose Hardy thingies with the annoying little noisemakers in them. Mind you, I will admit that I have, on occasion, been known to be criticalof the products of Messrs Hardy. As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise,even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. :-| Peter from BambooRods@aol.com Wed Dec 5 06:45:48 2001 fB5Cjlt09277 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:45:47 -0600 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:45:41 - Subject: Off Topic .email extension? Sorry for taking up the bandwidth but... A friend of mine (that is new to the Internet and using MSN) has been forwarding email to me. According to them all they are doing is using the forward button. When they arrive they have the extension.email on them. I guess I'm stupid but I can't determine how they are to be opened. They all require downloading and when I try to open them after download, I don't seem to have the appropriate program todo so. Any suggestions other than a computer class for me?TIADoug from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Dec 5 07:23:43 2001 fB5DNgt09982 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:23:42 -0600 5 Dec 2001 08:23:06 -0500 Subject: Lapping ferrules Has anyone come up with a more innovative way to fit/lap male ferrules? Ihave been doing this by hand with sandpaper and with the lathe and a file. Ihave found the results of both to be inconsistent. I would like to hear fromboth the by hand and lathe advocates. HAs anyone been using a Cratex wheelthat could explain how that is used in the lathe? I have been getting goodfits, but I have been ruining way too many males. ANy and all informationwould be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.Bob from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Dec 5 07:44:29 2001 fB5DiSt10513 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:44:28 -0600 Wed, 5 Dec 2001 05:44:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Lapping ferrules FILETIME=[F2BF8720:01C17D92] Bob,Bill Waara would only do his lapping with a hard Arkansas stone. Takes a=while but you do get good results. I tried it but don't have the patienc=e. I use 400 grit in my hand... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Lapping ferrules Has anyone come up with a more innovative way to fit/lap male ferrules? Ihave been doing this by hand with sandpaper and with the lathe and a file=. Ihave found the results of both to be inconsistent. I would like to hear f=romboth the by hand and lathe advocates. HAs anyone been using a Cratexwhee=lthat could explain how that is used in the lathe? I have been getting goo=dfits, but I have been ruining way too many males. ANy and all informationwould be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.Bob Original Message ----- From: Bob Maulucci Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:27 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e Subject: Lapping ferrules mal= e ferrules? Ihave been doing this by hand with sandpaper and with the=lathe and a file. Ihave found the results of both to be inconsistent=. I would like to hear fromboth the by hand and lathe advocates. HAs =anyone been using a Cratex wheelthat could explain how that is used i=n the lathe? I have been getting goodfits, but I have been ruining wa=y too many males. ANy and all informationwould be greatly appreciated=. Thanks very much.Bob from Bamboomaker@aol.com Wed Dec 5 07:49:37 2001 fB5Dnat10894 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:49:36 -0600 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:49:23 -0500 Subject: Finishing Real Seat fillers like Pen blanks Friends, I finally figured out what to do with all those reel seat blanks that were undersized. . . make pens. Though even during the pen making process, I find myself pondering aboutour constant endeavor to improve our art of making cane rods. I had the opportunity to us various products used to finish pen blanks from CA glue to solid wax based finishes. I must say I'm amazed at the ease of application and the relative durability of the finished pens. So my query is: Has anyone applied the methods of finishing of pen blanks to reel seats? Is it durable enough for our use? One is to apply CA glue (super glue) until it coats the blank - then polish it up. This leaves a hard CA surface on the blank. Others include a lacquer/alcohol based friction finish that is applied to the blank. I especially like the HUT product PPP polish. It comes in two flavors for different levels of polish. Apparently it is a carnuba wax based product with abrasives and it is applied with friction to the blank It literally takes a few minutes to apply these finishes and if people have had positive experiences with these methods, then I'll consider switching. Thanks in advance for the thoughts. Regards, Mark Mark C. Lee, M.D.Rochester, MN from jerryy@webtv.net Wed Dec 5 08:07:12 2001 fB5E7Ct11479 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:07:12 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA16729; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:07:09 - ETAsAhR3PM7ddUHN7r45BwWXZsnywJxCPgIUIa7/WaPwIk6BaVBOxHyaM3hshto= Subject: Re: Lapping ferrules Dec 2001 08:22:26 -0500 If you're talking about a tool post grinder- They start at about $2k.I bought a chinese rip off of a Dremel moto tool ($14 at Big Lots) andmade my own tool post grinder. All I have used in it are a series ofstones and diamond bits. I don't think I would trust the accuracy on aferrule. Make some of my own lathe tools and it works well on Hi-Speedtool bits. Have a very large assortment of Cratex wheels and shapes thatwas given to me at a machining show 25 years ago. In the assortment isa flat, light green (fine) piece 2 X 5 in. Use it to keep an edge onjunk knifes. It could be used holding the ferrule in a lathe but howwould you keep from ridging using a small wheel. Personally use Grobet#6 and #8 files, with the teeth filled with chalk, to bring it closethen start with 400 grit to 1500 grit. Use 4/0 wool before trying thefit.Patience.....Patience......Patience! Regards, Jerry Young from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Dec 5 08:25:21 2001 fB5EPKt12166 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:25:20 -0600 fB5EPFY11731 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:25:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Lapping ferrules Bob,I may be lucky but I have not screwed up a male ferrule YET.I use the lathe, used a drill press before that.My ferrules are fitted to each other before they are glued to the blank. Ihavewood plugs that I insert in the open end of the ferrule before I start.The ferrule is put in the collet ( chuck) tab end first. I start with a narrow(about 1/4") strip 320 plumbers roll sandpaper. As the female starts to fit Ichange to a 600 paper strip. Run the lathe about 600 RPM. Start sanding thefirst 1/4" on the male ferrule and check the fit with the female. When thefirst1/4" fits then work up to the next 1/4" up the length of the ferrule. I amtalking about a tight fit. I do use a ferrule puller ( two blocks of wood) topull them apart. When the ferrule gets about where I want it I switch to 1000paper , Finish with 000000 steel wool sheets.I fit my ferrules so that there is room for wear, Not quite up to the welt.After this is done the male end is wrapped with one wrap of masking tapeand putin the collet with the tab end out. The tab end is then tapered and polishedwith a jewelers file, 320, 600 and 1000 sand paper, the wood plug in that endkeeps the tabs from collapsing.. When the tabs are thinned down andpolished,the ends of the tabs are shaped with the wood plug still in place.The plug is then removed and what burs are left between the tabs can becleanedup with 600 paper. I find this to be a quick and easy way for me to fit myferrules. So far so good. I am sure that in time I will screw one up.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: Has anyone come up with a more innovative way to fit/lap male ferrules? Ihave been doing this by hand with sandpaper and with the lathe and a file. Ihave found the results of both to be inconsistent. I would like to hear fromboth the by hand and lathe advocates. HAs anyone been using a Cratexwheelthat could explain how that is used in the lathe? I have been getting goodfits, but I have been ruining way too many males. ANy and all informationwould be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.Bob from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Wed Dec 5 08:49:07 2001 fB5En6t13114 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:49:06 -0600 Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:45:11 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 07:48:49 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Lapping ferrules FILETIME=[6F725010:01C17D9B] fB5En7t13115 Bob, I recently changed the way I lap my male ferrules. Before I wrapped the rodwith masking tape and secured it in the lathe with a hex collet. Now I slide a10" piece of rubber tubing over the rod so that the ferrule is just exposed. This makes the rod round so that I can roll it back and forth on the edge ofthe work bench with my left hand while holding the sand paper with my right. This gives me much more control over the process. It doesn't seem to slowthe process down. I think the back and forth motion cuts the NS faster thanin just one direction. If the tip is slapping around on the bench just slideanother short section of tubing over that end. This system really works well "Bob Maulucci" 12/05/01 06:22AM >>> Has anyone come up with a more innovative way to fit/lap male ferrules? Ihave been doing this by hand with sandpaper and with the lathe and a file. Ihave found the results of both to be inconsistent. I would like to hear fromboth the by hand and lathe advocates. HAs anyone been using a Cratex wheelthat could explain how that is used in the lathe? I have been getting goodfits, but I have been ruining way too many males. ANy and all informationwould be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.Bob from rmoon@ida.net Wed Dec 5 09:24:58 2001 fB5FOvt14878 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:24:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Lapping ferrules Bob, for what it is worth, I am using an antiquarian system that reallydoes work. It is cheap and consistent.. I have a 3" cloth wheel, canbe attached to the lathe or on a grinder arbor, and I dress the wheelliberally with jewelers rouge. then I twirl the male against theferrule. You must be very careful to support the ferrule from below,because sometimes the wheel can rip it around and could conceivablybreak the rod... I just use my hand. You must check very often, becauseas you know the difference between not ready and too much has to bemeasured in milli microns. One little thing to remember is not to roundthe end off. The dressing should be consistent along the entire slide.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from briansr@point-net.com Wed Dec 5 09:44:15 2001 fB5FiEt16000 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:44:14 -0600 Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:57:45 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels PeterYa ain't the only one who knows of Francoise Hardy( Still a really greatlooking woman.She did a show on TV last winter with with Brit punk rock starwhose name doesn't come to mind at the momentCheers Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Shawn I guess the answer to "Why" is that it is as easy to make a good reel with a drag that can be set from zero to freight train as it is to make one ofthose Hardy thingies with the annoying little noisemakers in them. Mind you, I will admit that I have, on occasion, been known to be criticalof the products of Messrs Hardy. As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise,even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. :-| Peter from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 09:45:20 2001 fB5FjKt16323 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:45:20 -0600 Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:45:08 -0800 Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:45:00 GMT Subject: Re:Lapping Ferrules FILETIME=[D1154D60:01C17DA3] Bob-I just came from the beauty supply store and got me a bitchin' set of emery boards. I am going to use them for smoothing my vanished guide wraps. It seems the abrasives go all the way to ~1500 grit (I'm guessing) As I was leaving it occured to me that they could also double as ferrule lapping tools as well. I also entertained the use of layout dye to track my progress on the males. The problem I have run into is overlapping sandings. I can tell when I fit them because they jump at a tiny location just a little bit as I am slowly sliding them together, although they always seem to snug up when fully seated. Now these ideas are on my list of things to do, so I can not attest to their effectiveness, but it seems they may just work. In regards to what has already been said, when working in the land of "tenths" (that's .0001) my limited experience has taught me patience is the only way. I always tell my cooks "You can always add more pepper, you can't take it out!" Same goes for lapping... Happy Holidays,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 5 09:50:17 2001 fB5FoHt16829 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:50:17 -0600 helo=default) id 16BeJM-0004Pj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 10:50:16 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels She has a great looking web site, too. www.francoise-hardy.com M-D PeterYa ain't the only one who knows of Francoise Hardy( Still a really greatlooking woman.She did a show on TV last winter with with Brit punk rock star whose name doesn't come to mind at the momentCheers Brian From: "Peter McKean" Shawn As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise, even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. :-| Peter from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 5 09:53:57 2001 fB5Frut17238 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:53:56 -0600 helo=default) id 16BeMt-0002VE-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 10:53:55 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels And while I'm thinking of it, the name is FranÝoise, you bunch of heathens.;o) M-D PeterYa ain't the only one who knows of Francoise HardyCheers Brian From: "Peter McKean" As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise, even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. Peter from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 5 10:30:08 2001 fB5GU8t19396 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:30:08 -0600 helo=default) id 16Bevu-00075V-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:30:06 -0500 Subject: Of interest regarding epoxies Came across this web page while doing a little research. While more boatbuilding related I thought it did have some practical application forrodmaking. http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Epoxy_Adhesives_Tips_and_Techniques.html M-D from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Wed Dec 5 10:42:48 2001 fB5Gglt20607 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:42:47 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels I took a look at the site. On the front page, she looked like David Bowiein drag. Oops- that's an oxymoron, isn't it! John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels She has a great looking web site, too. www.francoise-hardy.com M-D From: "brian sturrock" PeterYa ain't the only one who knows of Francoise Hardy( Still a really great looking woman.She did a show on TV last winter with with Brit punk rock star whose name doesn't come to mind at the momentCheers Brian From: "Peter McKean" Shawn As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise, even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. :-| Peter from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Wed Dec 5 10:43:38 2001 fB5Ghbt20799 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:43:37 -0600 Wed, 05 Dec 2001 08:43:36 PST Subject: Grindstone Anglers Do they have a website? Are they the ones thatoffered a quad planing form? and does anyone have oneof their quad forms? can you give me some feedbackabout them? Thanks. Chris McDowellblitzenrods@yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from alan.grombacher@pioneer.com Wed Dec 5 11:26:09 2001 fB5HQ8t23638 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:26:08 -0600 Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:25:45 -0500 id ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:25:36 -0600 Listserv Rodmakers Subject: RE: Grindstone Anglers Chris, Give Keith Weeks a call at Grindstone Anglers. There phone number is905- 689-0880. I have their hex planing forms. There are very nice. Dave Parker has a hexform too, and he likes it. The price of the hex forms is very reasonableand in Canadian dollars (0.63 cents US/1 CDN). I don't know about a quad form from Grindstone. But I did just get off thephone with Keith (10 seconds ago - getting some steelhead gear for my twoboys). He says they sell them. They are made of three pieces of steel, andcan be made long if desired. Tell Keith, I said "Hey". Cheers, Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: Grindstone Anglers Do they have a website? Are they the ones thatoffered a quad planing form? and does anyone have oneof their quad forms? can you give me some feedbackabout them? Thanks. Chris McDowellblitzenrods@yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.http://shopping.yahoo.com from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Dec 5 13:48:59 2001 fB5Jmwt04027 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:48:58 -0600 Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:48:45 -0800 Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:48:44 GMT Subject: Re: Lapping ferrules FILETIME=[D9512E50:01C17DC5] Hi Bob: one to tell you exactly how to lap ferrule's. However, Jeff Wagner put on ademostration this past summer at the Grayrocks Gathering that was superb.He showed how to properly prepare the ferrule station, including the use of flat to flat, and then went on to lap the ferrule's using Gobert file's. Thembaby's were buttery smooth with the perfect pop when done. I've never seena better demonstration done by anyone in the 7 years I've been attending gatherings in the future, I wish that you could get Jeff to come back for a Jim "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" male ferrules? I lathe and a file. I like to hear from using a Cratex wheel getting good all information Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Dec 5 13:57:48 2001 fB5Jvlt04752 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:57:47 -0600 id ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:51:06 -0500 id Y2QP47J9; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:51:01 -0500 Subject: Rodmaker - Jim Empie Is anyone aware of the maker in the Michigan area? If anyone has some contact information, I'd like to get my hands on it. Thanks.-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Dec 5 14:56:11 2001 Received: from fB5KuAt08037 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:56:09 -0600 Message- 14:54:50 -0600 From: Tony Spezio X-Mailer: "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Check out the Bambooarticle on this site. Interesting about the flexible ferrules. TonyFlyTyr@southshore.com http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tackleroom.html from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Dec 5 15:17:31 2001 Received: from serv- fB5LHVt09612 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:17:57 -0000 Received: from d-88.man.ttlc.net (HELO ttlc.net) -0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 05 Dec 200116:18:48 -0500 From: Reed Curry User-Agent:Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 flytyr@southshore.com CC: "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu"Subject: Re: Interesting site References:Content-Type: text/plain; rcurry@ttlc.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Tony,Interesting article. I take exception to the following, however: "Much has beenwritten about the "lovely, lively feel of a traditional cane rod". Much of this isnostalgia and ignores the many rods which were overweight, floppy and slow.If they were that good why did we discard them when fibre-glass firstappeared on the scene? " Cane rods were discarded in favor of FRP for thesame reason that priceless country antique furniture was stacked in thefarmyard and burned, once the new chrome dining set arrived. They wereMODERN. (rant off) Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/Tony Spezio wrote: Check out the Bamboo article on this site.Interesting about the flexible ferrules.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comhttp://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tackleroom.html . -- > from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Dec 5 15:38:19 2001 Received: from fB5LcJt10929 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:38:18 -0600 Message- 15:36:59 -0600 From: Tony Spezio X-Mailer: "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re:Interesting site References: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Reed, There is always athorn among the roses, we just live with it. Kind like the recent article on theWhite River in an Outdoor rag. The trout are so easy to catch., about all youhave to do is open your ice chest and the trout will jump in. Not really inthose words but close. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Reed Curry wrote: Tony,Interesting article. I take exception to the following, however: "Much has been written about the "lovely, lively feel of a traditionalcane rod". Much of this is nostalgia and ignores the many rods whichwere overweight, floppy and slow. If they were that good why did wediscard them when fibre- glass first appeared on the scene?"Cane rods were discarded in favor of FRP for the same reason thatpriceless country antique furniture was stacked in the farmyard andburned, once the new chrome dining set arrived. They were MODERN. (rantoff)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Spezio wrote: Check out the Bamboo article on this site.Interesting about the flexible ferrules.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comhttp://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tackleroom.html . -- from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Dec 5 15:59:27 2001 fB5LxQt13548 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:59:26 -0600 (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Taper graphs, etc. Well, if any of you live in Florida, or other destinations due south, thinka kind thought of me, will you? We are sitting in about 1.5' of snow, andit started snowing again here in Utah. But, the water is good. Too manyfish kills last summer, and too many dry river beds... Anyway, I have been pondering the taper archives on the Rodmakers site aswell as Todd's tips site, and I am wondering how to read those taper graphs.Do they really tell you about the casting characteristics of a rod taper? Ican't see it. Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me? Also, while I am at it. How does one know the size of the ferrule for thosetapers? I saw that Wayne C.'s tapers generally included the ferrule size,but after I have built a few Sir Ds, I will want to try other makers'tapers. Do I just look at the taper dimension at the mid point and doubleit to get a diameter? Thanks in advance, Jason from bmaulucci@adelphia.net Wed Dec 5 16:02:48 2001 fB5M2lt14508 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:02:47 -0600 Subject: RE: Interesting site I don't think I would want those fish getting on my ice cold beer. (Or Rodeocool, if you prefer).Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Interesting site Reed,There is always a thorn among the roses, we just live with it.Kind like the recent article on the White River in an Outdoor rag.The trout areso easy to catch., about all you have to do is open your ice chestand the troutwill jump in. Not really in those words but close.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com . -- from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Dec 5 16:08:00 2001 fB5M7xt15889 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:07:59 -0600 fB5M7iW01897 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:07:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Interesting site I don't want them getting in any ice chest. Too many end up that way now.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Maulucci wrote: I don't think I would want those fish getting on my ice cold beer. (Or Rodeocool, if you prefer).Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Interesting site Reed,There is always a thorn among the roses, we just live with it.Kind like the recent article on the White River in an Outdoor rag.The trout areso easy to catch., about all you have to do is open your ice chestand the troutwill jump in. Not really in those words but close.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com . -- from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Wed Dec 5 16:55:24 2001 fB5MtNt19982 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:55:23 -0600 Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:55:21 PST Subject: Quad planing forms Thanks for the contact information on Grindstone. Ispoke with Keith Weeks and gathered some information. I would also like to check out other options. Doesanyone know of any additional sources for quad planingforms. Thanks. Chrisblitzenrods@yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from bob@downandacross.com Wed Dec 5 17:12:31 2001 fB5NCUt20873 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:12:30 -0600 Subject: RE: Interesting site Tony:I love the part of the article were it mentions grain run-out following theuse of a milling machine. Just prior to that, it mentioned the innovative,adavanced, NODELESS technique.Introducing the new Oxymoron series: the painstakingly built nodeless rod,finely hand planed to avoid the run out of milling machines...get yours at afine outlet near you. Don't be fooled by imitations. Best regards, Bob ps. I like and build some nodeless rods, I just think this is funny -----Original Message----- Subject: Interesting site Check out the Bamboo article on this site.Interesting about the flexible ferrules.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comhttp://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tackleroom.html from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 5 18:02:12 2001 fB602Bt22360 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:02:11 -0600 helo=default) id 16BlzO-0001Bj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:02:11 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels It's called a cedilla, and it's used to tell us English speaking folks thatthis is an "s" sound, otherwise we'd be ignorantly using incorrectpronunciations of French words, which we should do anyway because we don'tspeak French, we speak ENGLISH! Maldita sea!!We'd say Fran-koys, or fa-kade, or kure-a-kow, instead of Fran-sua, fa-sad,and kyoora-so, for FranÝois, faÝade, or curaÝao. M-D And what do you call that little bugger hanging off the bottom of the "c",pray tell? And while I'm thinking of it, the name is FranÝoise, you bunch of heathens.;o) M-D PeterYa ain't the only one who knows of Francoise HardyCheers Brian From: "Peter McKean" As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise, even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. Peter from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 5 18:06:40 2001 fB606dt22668 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:06:39 -0600 helo=default) id 16Bm3h-0002aX-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 19:06:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Interesting site Tony, Maybe this perception was fostered by the Arkansas Game & FishCommissioncommissioners' hatchery dependency? They dump the little gray plasticthingsin the rivers by the millions. I suppose it's asking too much for them toactually manage the reproducing resource that exists in the rivers. You knowthe ones -- they grow large, and they spawn. The ones that there'd be a lotmore of if someone would take the time to manage them and give a rat'srump.(Rant mode off. See what you've started, Reed?) M-D Reed,There is always a thorn among the roses, we just live with it.Kind like the recent article on the White River in an Outdoor rag. The trout are so easy to catch., about all you have to do is open your ice chest and the trout will jump in. Not really in those words but close.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Reed Curry wrote: Tony,Interesting article. I take exception to the following, however: "Much has been written about the "lovely, lively feel of a traditionalcane rod". Much of this is nostalgia and ignores the many rods whichwere overweight, floppy and slow. If they were that good why did wediscard them when fibre- glass first appeared on the scene?"Cane rods were discarded in favor of FRP for the same reason that priceless country antique furniture was stacked in the farmyard andburned, once the new chrome dining set arrived. They were MODERN.(rant off) Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Spezio wrote: Check out the Bamboo article on this site.Interesting about the flexible ferrules.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comhttp://www.fishandfly.co.uk/tackleroom.html . -- from briansr@point-net.com Wed Dec 5 18:58:11 2001 fB60wAt24096 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:58:10 -0600 Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:11:36 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Salut M-DMais voyons donc !! On peut ecrire en Francais sans les accents,n'est quepas .Sortout pour les "cou rouge" parmi nous autresBrian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels It's called a cedilla, and it's used to tell us English speaking folks that this is an "s" sound, otherwise we'd be ignorantly using incorrectpronunciations of French words, which we should do anyway because wedon'tspeak French, we speak ENGLISH! Maldita sea!!We'd say Fran-koys, or fa-kade, or kure-a-kow, instead of Fran-sua, fa-sad, and kyoora-so, for FranÝois, faÝade, or curaÝao. M-D From: "Miller, Troy" And what do you call that little bugger hanging off the bottom of the "c",pray tell? And while I'm thinking of it, the name is FranÝoise, you bunch of heathens. ;o) M-D From: "brian sturrock" PeterYa ain't the only one who knows of Francoise HardyCheers Brian From: "Peter McKean" As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise, even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. Peter from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 5 19:13:34 2001 fB61DXt24649 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:13:33 -0600 helo=default) id 16Bn6S-0004zn-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 05 Dec 2001 20:13:33 -0500 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Okay Brian, You're excused, and you're correct. It's only to sort out the rednecks. ;o) M-D Salut M-DMais voyons donc !! On peut ecrire en Francais sans les accents,n'est quepas .Sortout pour les "cou rouge" parmi nous autresBrian From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: December 5, 2001 7:00 PMSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels It's called a cedilla, and it's used to tell us English speaking folks that this is an "s" sound, otherwise we'd be ignorantly using incorrectpronunciations of French words, which we should do anyway because we don't speak French, we speak ENGLISH! Maldita sea!!We'd say Fran-koys, or fa- kade, or kure-a-kow, instead of Fran-sua, fa-sad, and kyoora-so, for FranÝois, faÝade, or curaÝao. M-D From: "Miller, Troy" And what do you call that little bugger hanging off the bottom of the "c", pray tell? And while I'm thinking of it, the name is FranÝoise, you bunch of heathens. ;o) M-D From: "brian sturrock" PeterYa ain't the only one who knows of Francoise HardyCheers Brian From: "Peter McKean" As a product of my time, I believe that the only good Hardy was Francoise, even if I am the only person in the world who remembers her. Peter from rsgould@cmc.net Wed Dec 5 20:33:05 2001 fB62X4t26935 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:33:04 -0600 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Hi to all,It's time for me to weigh in on this one. I believe that reel capacity ismore important than the type of drag because a really big fish will havehis/her way anyhow. And besides this gives me a chance to brag about mybigfish a rainbow caught in Dragon lake B.C. It was 32 1/2 inches long andweighed 11 1/2 lbs. and was a really strong fighter. The reel was a Hardy asI recall and it had lots of 20 lb dacron backing. When I took my one andonly trip to Alaska I used a Hardy St. Aidan because of its large linecapacity and it worked out just fine. Like others on this list my favoritereel is the Hardy Perfect (with the agate line guide) in the 3 3/8" size.It's just right for the type of fishing I do.Ray----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: In defence of Hardy reels Hi, What does the list think of Charlton reels? Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker from DStone721@aol.com Wed Dec 5 20:37:02 2001 fB62b2t27195 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:37:02 -0600 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:36:56 - Subject: Re: Gorilla Glue update A finding from www.woodweb.com. on Gorilla Glue...... WOW...... good glue, and bubbles with out strength.... We make large wooden bowls for the food service industry. Our decision touse "Gorilla Glue" was based on a simple test. A bowl assembled with the test glue had to survive 30 cycles in a commercial dishwasher at 180 degreeswith no joint movement or failure. It also had to be foodsafe. Polyurethane is the only glue that passed. The secret to a good bond is to mist the glue surfaces with water 5 minutes before application to open the wood pores and to use sufficient clamp pressure to force the glue into the wood. A joint that's not tight will allow bubbles to form resulting in a weak bond. 500 bowls later, we've had 0 rejects and only a few returns. Doug A finding from glue, and bubbles with out strength.... We make large wooden bowls for the food service industry. Our decisionto use "Gorilla Glue" was based on a simple test. A bowl assembled with thetest glue had to survive 30 cycles in a commercial dishwasher at 180degrees with no joint movement or failure. It also had to be foodsafe.Polyurethane is the only glue that passed. The secret to a good bond is tomist the glue surfaces with water 5 minutes before application to open thewood pores and to use sufficient clamp pressure to force the glue into thewood. A joint that's not tight will allow bubbles to form resulting in a weakbond. 500 bowls later, we've had 0 rejects and only a few returns. Doug from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 5 21:48:54 2001 fB63mrt28726 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:48:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Gorilla Glue update Did you try resorcinol or was it rejected out of hand due to the colour? Tony At 09:36 PM 12/5/01 -0500, DStone721@aol.com wrote: A finding from www.woodweb.com. on Gorilla Glue...... WOW...... good glue, and bubbles with out strength.... We make large wooden bowls for the food service industry. Our decision to use "Gorilla Glue" was based on a simple test. A bowl assembled with the test glue had to survive 30 cycles in a commercial dishwasher at 180 degrees with no joint movement or failure. It also had to be foodsafe. Polyurethane is the only glue that passed. The secret to a good bond is to mist the glue surfaces with water 5 minutes before application to open the wood pores and to use sufficient clamp pressure to force the glue into the wood. A joint that's not tight will allow bubbles to form resulting in a weak bond. 500 bowls later, we've had 0 rejects and only a few returns. Doug /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from martinrjensen@attbi.com Wed Dec 5 22:47:39 2001 fB64lct00348 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:47:39 -0600 Thu, 6 Dec 2001 04:47:33 +0000 Subject: Re: Don't open attachment!! Organization: wish I had some It looks like it is an advertisement for grisoft virus software. That'swhat the attachment says. I guess you don't get anything for free. Itmay be a setting in the program. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Fwd: Re: Don't open attachment!! Thanks all for getting back to me. Apparently it's not a virus thank goodness. I'm running AVG on my system and my service provider also runsa virus scanner. I just finished wiping my hard drive and reinstalling everything and neither AVG or my service provider reports a virus. Ican't figure out why my mail is going out with the attachment. I'm running Eudora. Any ideas? Wayne From: "Jojo DeLancier" Subject: Re: Don't open attachment!!Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:34:23 - 0600X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Wayne, It has an attachment, but I believe that they are only Internet headers and routings. Don't know why it's there, but it is. I opened your e-mail in another window, but there wasn't an executable attachment there. M-D ---- from boyko@peoplepc.com Thu Dec 6 02:26:10 2001 fB68QAt03634 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:26:10 -0600 -0800 Subject: AVG anti virus: lookout Attention all Bamboo Rodmakers: If you see anything on your e-mail =about an ad for AVG anti virus something or other, DO NOT TOUCH IT...IT =It is the virus, Iknow , I logged kon to see this new anti virus =thing and did not have my computer for 12 hours getting rid of it. =birddog = anything on your e-mail about an ad for AVG anti virus something or = logged kon to see this new anti virus thing and did not have my computer = from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 6 04:45:51 2001 fB6Ajnt05051 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Wire Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Nickel Silver Wire Guys, Any suggestions for the OD of ni-silver wire for pinning reel seat =caps?And a source of supply. thanx, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html .040" and you can get it from = Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- & Sandy Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 06, = PMSubject: Nickel Silver =WireGuys,Any suggestions for the OD of ni-silver = supply.thanx,Donhttp://www=.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html= from cw@vanion.com Thu Dec 6 14:56:10 2001 fB6KuAt01282 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:56:10 -0600 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:00:45 -0700 Subject: pinning wire Jeff Wagner carries wire & = from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 6 15:42:44 2001 fB6Lght03639 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:42:43 -0600 Subject: RE: Interesting site Barry:If you read Lambuth, nearly all the rods are 9' to 10' range. He seems toconsider the short rods an Eastern fascination.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Interesting site Tony -- What is it about conditions there that suggest US-style rods wouldn't havebeen developed? (not disagreeing, just not sure what you meant and I haven'tbeen there.) Also, if you want to talk about US rods developed for US conditions, I'dinclude lots of other US rods like the 8 1/2 and 9 foot Phillipsons orGrangers (those are the ones I personally like) and many others. The biastoward small light rods is rather new -- if you want to talk about what wasdeveloped in bamboo to suit US conditions (when bamboo was the onlymaterial, rather than a fringe market in a graphite world), it wasn't theSir D (much as I love it) so much as the 3/2 9-footer. Barry from canazon@mindspring.com Thu Dec 6 16:05:20 2001 fB6M5Kt04963 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:05:20 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16C6dn-0001xy-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:05:16 -0500 Subject: Fw: Twist (not the dance) doug,this could be your first spiral rod. see if you can do the same to thetip [:)] mike from robertgkope@attbi.com Thu Dec 6 17:42:43 2001 fB6Nggt08888 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:42:42 -0600 Subject: drawn vs machined ferrules On reading Gary Dabrowski's article in the latest Powerfibers about =making deep drawn metal components, I noted that he infers that drawn =ferrules are harder and stronger than ferrules machined from bar stock =because of work-hardening. I also recall A.J. saying that he had some =concerns about machined ferrules and wondered if this is one of them . Is there really a substantial difference in the strength and hardness of =ferrules made from tubing vs. machined from rod? Isn't nickel silver =work-hardened to some extent when it's drawn or rolled into bar stock, =or is bar stock annealed or that done at a high enough temperature that =the metal gets annealed? Has anyone had problems with excessive wear or =deformation of machined ferrules? -- Robert Kope On reading Gary Dabrowski's = latest Powerfibers about making deep drawn metal components, I noted = infers that drawn ferrules are harder and stronger than ferrules = saying that he had some concerns about machined ferrules and wondered if = one of them . Is there really a substantial = strength and hardness of ferrules made from tubing vs. machined from = Isn't nickel silver work-hardened to some extent when it's drawn or = bar stock, or is bar stock annealed or that done at a high enough = or deformation of machined ferrules? -- Robert =Kope from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 6 18:15:41 2001 fB70Fdt09917 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:15:39 -0600 Subject: RE: Interesting site Driggs and the Sir D while they are marvelous tapers simply wouldn't havebeen developed here as much for the reason they're sort of light as muchasthe terrain doesn't perfectly suit the rods the tapers were developed for.> Tony -- What is it about conditions there that suggest US-style rods wouldn't havebeen developed? (not disagreeing, just not sure what you meant and Ihaven'tbeen there.) The mind set mostly. Nobody else was looking at development. I could have used a lot of makers as an example I just chose these. Imagine Tonkin didn't behave as it does but the best natural material available to rodmakers until synthetics came on line was lancewood.I would imagine flyfishing would have developed in an entirely different way to how it in fact has if lancewood was the material of choice. I'd go as far to say flyfishing would be as popular as quoits had that been so.Now imagine flyfishing did actually become popular even with 14 foot lancewood rods. A 3 piece 9 foot Tonkin bamboo rod is a lot better than a 14 foot lancewood one and then along came graphite.Now consider bamboo, specifically Tonkin. This stuff is so good people still can't decide if it's better or not after all the years other materials have been available.Now, you could say that's because it's in the nature of Tonkin bamboo being a mystical material from the East but I tend to think it's the fact Tonkin bamboo and flyfishing as we know it simply go together like bread and butter. Fly fishing in an enjoyable way for TROUT was only really possible because of Tonkin *BUT* because flyfishing has evolved into more than simply fishing for trout bamboo isn't always better anymore but long rods made of bamboo are not as nice to use as shorter rods, nor do people really see the need for them in bamboo any more unless you just want one andbeing assisted by the local conditions US makers made the most of this in the later days and people have gone for them these days also. If you consider Hardy who are only one level above lancewood in their thinking and what they have been putting out all these years and compare them with the US style rods you'd know right off. Partridge are still doing it as well.Most non US makers seemed to have been building rods for salmon when all the people were really after were small to med sized trout and the US makers had realised this mainly due I guess to the number of makers whohad to come up with rods that performed properly for the conditions what ever they were where ever they were. Also, the numbers of trout per mile of water in sections of the country where bamboo rods are especially well suited has a lot to do with it IMHO.If I use the Manistee or the Au Sable as examples I would find it very difficult to think of more classic rivers to fish bamboo. I mention these because they are the ones I saw most off but there would be plently of others like them. These are well stocked with small to med fish, wadable to a very large degree, not especially wide and wadable to your chest. Would bamboo be as popular if most of the better rivers were glacial, open to serious wind, un wadable beyond your knees and flowing at 15 knots with fish few and far between but from med to big? I'm not trying to tell anybody this is what all the fishing in most other places is like just that the conditions in the US probably are more inductive to bamboo's popularity.Here in Aust including Tassie most of the really productive water is in lakes where long rods of about #5-#6 are the most common making bamboonot smaller rods are perfect and are very much like parts of the US. NZ is again a #5-#6 situation, more so actually with lakes being a big part but also large rivers you can't really wade and often quite exposed to strong winds. IMHO anything less than #4 simply has no place there.The rods just tend to be just a little too big and heavy if made of bamboo to be what you'd call ideal in these places unless you know better and prefer to use them. I'm generalising in a very big way here but the logic of a lot of the rods suddenly became clear once I saw the place and saw #2 and #3 rods do realistically belong in some places. Let me put it another way, how popular would bamboo be if most of the fishing done in the US was done in Alaskan conditions?To twist Seymour's phrase below, if all you wanted was a chicken dinner would you strangle two chickens or one strong ox? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Dec 6 20:12:04 2001 fB72C4t12803 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:12:04 -0600 Subject: Re: drawn vs machined ferrules In a message dated 12/6/1 11:43:45 PM, robertgkope@attbi.com writes: Robert - Yes there is. Given my absolute druthers, I would choose a well made drawn ferrule above all others. There is a noticeable difference in machined vs drawn, or drawn tubing ferrules. The problem is that there is no source prohibitive unless you can sell a few hundred thousand sets. Drawn tubinghas the hardness, but I have had a few fail at the solder joints, which really upsets me. Maybe the Loctite compound is the answer? I have usedmachined ferrules and like them, but do worry about wear. Keep them clean, use a ferrule plug, and hope for the best. I think you could machine 1/2 hard bar stock OK, but have no idea where to get it. The bar stock available has been annealed, which is what mostly everybody else wants. Keep in mind that10,000 pounds is a small order to the people who actually make the stuff. Everybody else just stocks it and sells it. from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Dec 6 20:18:19 2001 fB72IHt13146 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:18:19 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16CAaX-0008MJ-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 21:18:10 -0500 Subject: Fw: Interesting site Tony:Can't disagree with anything you said, matter of fact, you said itexceedingly well. Some of us; however, are not holed up in trout country. I dearly enjoy myoccasional three-hour trips (one-way) to the Blue Ridge to use my 4 wt. SirD on small/medium trout. But for the most part, if fishing be mygood- time-away-from-home, I gotta pursue local bass, crappie, bream etc.,and therein lies the opportunities for use of a variety of bamboo rods, toinclude my 9' Phillipson, which recently did the job on a 6 lb. Largemouth. Wallabies vs. All Blacks, who to pull for ?? Ed in N.C. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Interesting site Driggs and the Sir D while they are marvelous tapers simply wouldn't havebeen developed here as much for the reason they're sort of light as much as the terrain doesn't perfectly suit the rods the tapers were developed for.> Tony -- What is it about conditions there that suggest US-style rods wouldn't have been developed? (not disagreeing, just not sure what you meant and I haven't been there.) The mind set mostly. Nobody else was looking at development. I could haveused a lot of makers as an example I just chose these. Imagine Tonkin didn't behave as it does but the best natural materialavailable to rodmakers until synthetics came on line was lancewood.I would imagine flyfishing would have developed in an entirely differentway to how it in fact has if lancewood was the material of choice. I'd goas far to say flyfishing would be as popular as quoits had that been so.Now imagine flyfishing did actually become popular even with 14 footlancewood rods. A 3 piece 9 foot Tonkin bamboo rod from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 6 20:23:39 2001 fB72Ndt13534 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:23:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Interesting site rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I have used 8.5' and 9' bamboo rods for many years and I really like them. The shortest rods I use on a regular basis are 8' bamboo though I do have rods from 6'3"s to 7'6"s that I use on occasion. OH YEH I did build a 5'3" one piece too. But I use the longer rods more.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 6 20:27:14 2001 fB72RDt13828 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:27:13 -0600 Subject: Re: drawn vs machined ferrules RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu If this work hardens like brass does wouldn't it be a good idea to anneal NS while you work on it. I anneal brass when I am working on it for a gun, and I also anneal NS when I am making parts out of it for guns. Just wondering since this is one of the things I don't make yet.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from shane_person@telus.net Thu Dec 6 20:27:39 2001 fB72Rct13907 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:27:38 -0600 Thu, 6 Dec 2001 19:26:53 -0700 Subject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Greetings from the frozen northThought I would chime in since you are talking about my turf. I hope youdidn't pass up Forest Lake on your way to Dragon. I took a 13 lb 33incher from Forest Lake on a Hardy Marquis 5 or 6 years ago. Now that'show I like to propel my belly boat!Shane. Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,It's time for me to weigh in on this one. I believe that reel capacity ismore important than the type of drag because a really big fish will havehis/her way anyhow. And besides this gives me a chance to brag about mybigfish a rainbow caught in Dragon lake B.C. It was 32 1/2 inches long andweighed 11 1/2 lbs. and was a really strong fighter. The reel was a HardyasI recall and it had lots of 20 lb dacron backing. When I took my one andonly trip to Alaska I used a Hardy St. Aidan because of its large linecapacity and it worked out just fine. Like others on this list my favoritereel is the Hardy Perfect (with the agate line guide) in the 3 3/8" size.It's just right for the type of fishing I do.Ray from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Dec 6 20:30:40 2001 fB72Uct14317 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:30:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Fw: Interesting site Living in Perth as I do I'm not in especially good trout country either. I tend to take as many 8hr flights as possible to NZ as I can get away with in a year and lately that's not many but you can't have it all can you [:-)]The local fish we have here on the coast are fun too.Definately the Wallabies!!! Tony At 09:19 PM 12/6/01 -0500, Ed Riddle wrote: Tony:Can't disagree with anything you said, matter of fact, you said itexceedingly well. Some of us; however, are not holed up in trout country. I dearly enjoy myoccasional three-hour trips (one-way) to the Blue Ridge to use my 4 wt. SirD on small/medium trout. But for the most part, if fishing be mygood- time-away-from-home, I gotta pursue local bass, crappie, bream etc.,and therein lies the opportunities for use of a variety of bamboo rods, toinclude my 9' Phillipson, which recently did the job on a 6 lb. Largemouth. Wallabies vs. All Blacks, who to pull for ?? Ed in N.C. ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:21 PMSubject: RE: Interesting site Driggs and the Sir D while they are marvelous tapers simply wouldn'thavebeen developed here as much for the reason they're sort of light asmuch as the terrain doesn't perfectly suit the rods the tapers were developed for.> Tony -- What is it about conditions there that suggest US-style rods wouldn't have been developed? (not disagreeing, just not sure what you meant and I haven't been there.) The mind set mostly. Nobody else was looking at development. I couldhaveused a lot of makers as an example I just chose these. Imagine Tonkin didn't behave as it does but the best natural materialavailable to rodmakers until synthetics came on line was lancewood.I would imagine flyfishing would have developed in an entirely differentway to how it in fact has if lancewood was the material of choice. I'd goas far to say flyfishing would be as popular as quoits had that been so.Now imagine flyfishing did actually become popular even with 14 footlancewood rods. A 3 piece 9 foot Tonkin bamboo rod /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Dec 6 20:57:37 2001 fB72vZt15316 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:57:36 -0600 Subject: Re: drawn vs machined ferrules RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu In a message dated 12/7/1 2:27:49 AM, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: Not for ferrules. You want the hardness for wear resistance. It makes a big difference. If you can, try filing some work hardened stuff and someannealed stuff. You will immediately see what I mean from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Thu Dec 6 21:13:25 2001 fB73DOt15940 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:13:24 -0600 Subject: Reed's American Angler article It's great to see such a nice piece on silk in the Jan/Feb 2002 issue. Andthe cover reference, too! Wonderful job, Reed. Sorry we missed you at L LBean's. Kat and David Ardea Flyrods/ Moose in the Water, Bamboo on the Bench http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/moose/mitw.html *-*Kathy Scott and David P. Van BurgelRR#2 Box 1235 Rome RoadNorridgewock, ME 04957207-587-4524 from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Dec 6 21:20:09 2001 fB73K9t16266 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:20:09 -0600 ([209.178.135.244] helo=g2t8c9) id 16CBYR-0002bf-00; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:20:03 -0800 Subject: Re: Stress graphs, etc. Jason, To get a understanding of stress curves try this. Pick a taper, get acalculator, get the stress graph of the same taper. Start subtracting onestation from the other, look at the corresponding point on the stress graph.Repeat this procedure for every dimension from the taper. You will start tosee a pattern occur that corresponds with the amount of change from onestation to another and the amount of stress in the graph. Find several rod tapers to do this with and you will get a betterunderstanding of what stress graphs are all about.If you want to find a good rod to make. Forget the graphs and ask. I go to rodmakers and use Franks Hexrod to get the ferrule size I need. Sometimes it will take a few days to get an answer. Several of the makersget this stuff in digest form. Regards, Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Stress graphs, etc. OK, guys. I have heard a lot of you talking about stress graphs over thepast couple of years. I only got a single reply yesterday, with a goodsuggestion to look at the Hexrod web site. However, I am still looking forward to a good explanation about how to read those stress curves, because they are with all the tapers I Iooked at in the Rodmakers archive. What do those things tell me? What difference dotheymake? Why are they there? I also asked about ferrule sizes for those tapers. What do you guys do todetermine ferrule size when looking at the tapers in the archives? Do youlook at a dimension at approximately the midpoint of the rod, and double it to get a close diameter? Still, it must be some sort of record that a question was asked on thislist, an actual honest to goodness rod building question, that only elicited a single off list response. Are carp and presumptuous British rod web sites that much more interesting??? Hope to hear from you soon, Jason from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Dec 6 21:26:13 2001 fB73QCt16620 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:26:12 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16CBeN-000569-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:26:11 -0500 Subject: virus alert- Don't openTaylor prints I got a virus alert on a message entitled Taylor Prints. Don't open =it..delete the messageEd I got a virus alert on a message = Ed from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 6 21:29:38 2001 fB73Tct16882 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:29:38 -0600 06 Dec 2001 19:29:32 PST Subject: question?? John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached. when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 6 21:33:20 2001 fB73XJt17194 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:33:19 -0600 helo=default) id 16CBlG-0004V9-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:33:19 -0500 Subject: Re: question?? Guys, John's on top of this. I, too, got an infected e-mail, then notified himimmediately. He already knew it and we are working on it right now. M-D John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 6 21:34:45 2001 fB73Yjt17419 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:34:45 -0600 helo=default) id 16CBme-0001M5-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:34:44 -0500 Subject: Re: question?? BTW He's not blocking your e-mails. The worm changes the e-mail address by onerandom letter so that you cannot send replies directly back. M-D John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from irish-george@chartermi.net Thu Dec 6 21:38:07 2001 fB73c7t17731 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:38:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes Have you tried MSC (www.mscdirect.com)? I thought their pricing looked =reasonable the last time I looked. George Subject: Aluminum rod tubes Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod tubes?? The places around =here seem very expensive, i.e. I can buy a finished tube for the same = The tubing spec is 6061-T6 - 1 5/8" OD wall .058" thankstom ausfeld pricing looked reasonable the last time I looked. George ----- Original Message ----- and Tom Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, December 06, = AMSubject: Aluminum rod =tubes Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod = places around here seem very expensive, i.e. I can buy a finished tube = .058" thankstom =ausfeld from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Dec 6 22:12:48 2001 fB74Cmt18851 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:12:48 -0600 fB74CkW07994 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:12:46 -0600 Subject: Re: question?? I just got a blank message from him.I did get a Virus warning on an unknown virus.Tony Jojo DeLancier wrote: BTW He's not blocking your e-mails. The worm changes the e-mail address byonerandom letter so that you cannot send replies directly back. M-D From: "timothy troester" John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Dec 6 22:25:24 2001 fB74PNt19352 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:25:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes Gearge and all who replied, MSC has 1 1/2" for about $6 / foot. I found 1 5/8" , .058" wall for $3/ =ft. I got prices quote as high as $8 / ft. One place said $320 for a =12' pole!!!! I ordered it at Pacemaker-Millar in Utica NY(on web). I =found 2" brass rod for $36/ ft. P-M was close to this, if went at them =with volume, I could probably do better. If there is interest maybe a =group buy would be in order. If interested, e-mail me offlist with ="tubing" in the subject line. Tom Subject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes Have you tried MSC (www.mscdirect.com)? I thought their pricing =looked reasonable the last time I looked. George Subject: Aluminum rod tubes Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod tubes?? The places around =here seem very expensive, i.e. I can buy a finished tube for the same = The tubing spec is 6061-T6 - 1 5/8" OD wall .058" thankstom ausfeld Gearge and all who replied, = e-mail me offlist with "tubing" in the subject line. Tom ----- Original Message ----- irish-george Sent: Thursday, December 06, = PMSubject: Re: Aluminum rod =tubes pricing looked reasonable the last time I looked. George ----- Original Message ----- Jill and Tom Ausfeld = Sent: Thursday, December 06, = AMSubject: Aluminum rod =tubes Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod = places around here seem very expensive, i.e. I can buy a finished = .058" thanks ausfeld from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Dec 6 22:27:19 2001 fB74RIt19558 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:27:18 -0600 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 23:27:17 -0500 Subject: Re:question?? Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} One thing we know for sure is the virus is going through his contact list in alphabetical order :)) Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 6 22:31:38 2001 fB74Vbt19858 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:31:38 -0600 helo=default) id 16CCfV-0000zI-00; Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:31:25 -0500 Subject: Re: question?? I just got an e-mail when yours came in from him. I think he's got it fixednow. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: question?? I just got a blank message from him.I did get a Virus warning on an unknown virus.Tony Jojo DeLancier wrote: BTW He's not blocking your e-mails. The worm changes the e-mail address by one random letter so that you cannot send replies directly back. M-D From: "timothy troester" John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Thu Dec 6 22:48:05 2001 fB74m4t20442 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:48:04 -0600 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 23:48:03 -0500 Subject: I'm sorry for...... any convenience that I may have caused!!!! I received an email from the =head of advertizing for a particular fly fishing magazine, and aparently =he was infected and passed it on to me. I have my anti virus software =on auto, but it seems that this worm executed itself before it was =picked up. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. sincerely, John Kenealy any convenience that I may have = received an email from the head of advertizing for a particular fly = anti virus software on auto, but it seems that this worm executed itself = it was picked up. Again, I apologize for any = have caused. sincerely, JohnKenealy from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 6 22:54:35 2001 fB74sYt20760 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:54:34 -0600 Subject: Non-rodmaking...Student Rick Bret:Went out to see your son Adam and his band Student Rick tonight in Buffalo.A great band. I was truly impressed by the band and the strong song- writingand musicianship. Had the pleasure of meeting Adam. You should be proud, heis a good kid...extremely talented, and humble to boot. The CD is in my carstereo, and I am loving it.Thanks for the heads up on the gig,Bobps., the 16 year old girlies made me feel rather old-manish! Yikes!!! from lblan@provide.net Thu Dec 6 22:57:52 2001 fB74vqt21028 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:57:52 -0600 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 23:57:50 -0500 Subject: FAQ on Fuming (Browntoning) Ran across this recently. Contains a fair amount of information on usingammonia to tone wood. ftp://ftp.cs.rochester.edu/pub/archives/rec.woodworking/woodwork- ammonia Larry Blan from jvswan@earthlink.net Thu Dec 6 23:20:26 2001 fB75KPt21596 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 23:20:25 -0600 (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Taper graphs, etc. Hi guys, I want to thank everyone for helping me out with stress graph info. Ireceived some great information, as well as many references to DarrylHayashida. I also want to apologize to those of you who noticed that Ididn't check the archives before posing my questions. I usually do, butthis time I didn't. So, sorry to those who thought of the question as awaste of bandwidth. All in all, I learned a lot. I appreciate it. Jason from iank@ts.co.nz Thu Dec 6 23:54:41 2001 fB75sdt22213 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 23:54:39 -0600 by sage.ts.co.nz (8.11.3/8.11.3) id fB7604L27926; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:00:04 +1300 using -f Subject: Re: I'm sorry for...... My little local internet providor has been very good at picking up virus's andthis is the first virus that has got through their system. .fortunately I was checking my email from a remote computor which had avery good virus checker and it picked up the virus. The thing I noticed , and on another later message from a "friend" was thatthe "re" appears twice in the subject line as though it is an exact copy of the original rather then a return. I guess the solution, for this week at least , is to be very suspicious ofemails which have "re" twice in the subject line. Ian any convenience that I may have caused!!!! I received an email from thehead of advertizing for a particular fly fishing magazine, and aparently he was infected and passed it on to me. I have my anti virussoftware on auto, but it seems that this worm executed itself before it was picked up. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. sincerely, John Kenealy -- Tasman Solutions Ltd. Real People in Cyber Space http://www.ts.co.nz from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Dec 6 23:55:28 2001 Received: from imo- (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id 4.39.1eef0bb1 (4403) for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Just wanted to thankeveryone for all the responses I got for help. Below is a good summary Ireceived on how to use the Medved Beveler (Todd, you might consider this OFF TOO MUCH MATERIAL AT A TIME. I start by putting a strip in the machinewith the power off. I set the cutter height so it just touches the strip. I thenremove the strip and turn on the power and feed the strip. (I always placethe enamel on the back angle with the pith facing me.) On your first pass youmight only take off the high spots. I run all 18 to 24 strips trough thebeveler at this setting. I then adjust the depth 1/32 lower, flip the strips endto end and feed them. (Again keeping the enamel on the back angle.) I repeatthis process until all the strips are about .230. I then bind them and heattreat. after heat treating I take the tip strips and bevel them to about .150.(This saves a lot of hand planing.) > from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 623:59:10 2001 Received: from web11205.mail.yahoo.com owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN well...i don't usually drinkbeer while planing... tonite seemed like the night. i thot i would plane thenodes...an experiment!...well, i suppose i could have had the same brainy ideato remove glue from the blank. todd how about this one for the tip file? [:-)]timothy ===== "Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride," The shadereplied, - "If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe__________________________________________________ Do YouYahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Dec 7 02:55:32 2001 Received: from Fri, 7 Dec 2001 00:55:18 -0800 Received: from 12.33.21.2 bylw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 08:55:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.33.21.2] From: "Allen Thramer" 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID:X- OriginalArrivalTime: 07 ajthramer@hotmail.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN mostof the sets that I machined from bar about 15 yrs ago are still in service.Most have had to be tightened up a couple of times. The ones that didn't holdup were the ones that did't recieve much care(read:alot). I have used acouple of commercial machined sets and was not too happy when I drilled forthe pinning wire. Nothing wrong with the mechanical process, only thematerial itself. Fully drawn ferrules are most likely not going to happen verysoon as the tooling cost is very high. Soldered from drawn tubing has beenthe compromise for 120yrs(Bellinger, CSE). If drawn ferrules were available Iwould use them as a first choice but I WOULD anneal the bottom part aroundthe ferrule leaves before I installed them. A.J. From: "Robert Kope" Subject: drawn vs machined ferrulesDate: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:55:15 -0800 On reading Gary Dabrowski's article in the latest Powerfibers about making deep drawn metal components, I noted that he infers that drawn ferrulesare harder and stronger than ferrules machined from bar stock because of work-hardening. I also recall A.J. saying that he had some concerns about machined ferrules and wondered if this is one of them . Is there really a substantial difference in the strength and hardness of ferrules made from tubing vs. machined from rod? Isn't nickel silver work-hardened to some extent when it's drawn or rolled into bar stock, or is bar stock annealed or that done at a high enough temperature that the metal gets annealed? Has anyone had problems with excessive wear or deformation of machined ferrules? -- Robert Kope _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Dec 7 03:01:18 2001 fB791Ht25433 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 03:01:17 -0600 Fri, 7 Dec 2001 01:01:04 -0800 Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:01:04 GMT Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Wire FILETIME=[B34F9F50:01C17EFD] I use .032 for the ferrules and .040 for the reelseat parts. a cheap source of supply is metalworks.com. A # roll of the wire should be split among 10- 12 builders.A.J. From: Don & Sandy Andersen Subject: Nickel Silver WireDate: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:07:20 -0700 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Dec 7 05:10:14 2001 fB7BACt26600 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 05:10:13 -0600 fB7B9x897078; Subject: Re: Winston Rod Co Glue Barry Someone, not long ago, said on the list that the Winston glue was anacid- catalysed PVA. I asked a few questions, but got no response until I wastalking to the owner of Woodworks Book & Tool a couple of days ago, andthought to ask him. These glues are freely available, are cheap, and are apparently easy enoughto use. He said exactly what you have said - the drawbacks are slow cure andshort shelf-life. I am very interested, as my father-in-law, aged 83, makes a few bamboorodsand is very sensitive to a lot of glues, getting bad reactions to ureaformaldehydes, epoxies, melamines, etc. For some bizarre reason (which Iguess you are allowed to do when you're 83) he refuses even to trypolyurethanes; it seems that PVA's are one group to which he can exposehimself safely. Peter from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Dec 7 06:39:22 2001 fB7CdLt27502 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:39:21 -0600 fB7CdJW05220 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:39:19 -0600 Subject: Gary Dabrowski Gary,Can't get you web site, don't have your E addresscan you contact me.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from beadman@mac.com Fri Dec 7 07:01:01 2001 fB7D10t28064 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:01:00 -0600 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:00:33 -0500 Subject: Re: FAQ on Fuming (Browntoning) At 12:01 AM -0500 on 12/7/01, Larry Blan wrote about FAQ on Fuming (Browntoning) Ran across this recently. Contains a fair amount of information on usingammonia to tone wood. ftp://ftp.cs.rochester.edu/pub/archives/rec.woodworking/woodwork- ammonia Larry Blan Theres also an interesting FAQ on hide glue at the same site. ftp://ftp.cs.rochester.edu/pub/archives/rec.woodworking/woodwork- hideglue-faq Claude from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Dec 7 07:04:25 2001 fB7D4Ot28281 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:04:24 -0600 Subject: Nickel Silver Wire - My thanks Guys/Gals, My thanks for pointing me @ several locations and the sizing. regards, Don Guys, Any suggestions for the OD of ni-silver wire for pinning reel seat caps? And a source of supply. thanx, Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Dec 7 07:16:00 2001 fB7DFxt28643 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:15:59 -0600 Subject: Re: I'm sorry for...... rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu OK so how do we get it out of our computer? http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Dec 7 07:25:16 2001 fB7DPFt28994 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:25:15 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Reed's American Angler article Kat and David, Yes, sorry we didn't connect. Thanks for the kind words on the article. Hopefully this will draw users to cane as well as silk.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott wrote: It's great to see such a nice piece on silk in the Jan/Feb 2002 issue. Andthe cover reference, too! Wonderful job, Reed. Sorry we missed you at L LBean's. Kat and David Ardea Flyrods/ Moose in the Water, Bamboo on the Bench http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/moose/mitw.html *-*Kathy Scott and David P. Van BurgelRR#2 Box 1235 Rome RoadNorridgewock, ME 04957207-587-4524 . -- > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Dec 7 08:14:44 2001 Received: from imo- fB7EEit29992 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id 2.163.53369a9 (4207); Fri, 7 Dec Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:14:32 EST 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Guys, everything is mailedout to all who have ordered. Brethttp://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html > from Grhghlndr@aol.comFri Dec 7 08:15:57 2001 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo- (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id 2.4e.2fe6595 (4207); Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:15:37 - Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:15:37 EST 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Please call me tonight orSaturday night at 616-471-7990 after 8:00 PM Eastern Time. Brethttp://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html > from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 708:21:26 2001 Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net 16CLsO-0003SM-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 07 Dec 200109:21:20 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Jojo DeLancier" References:Subject: Re: I'm sorry for...... Date: Fri, MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 jojo@ipa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN That particularworm self-executes upon previewing the e-mail. You don't have to open theattachment to get it. It takes advantage of a fault in Outlook Express, forwhich a downloadable patch is available from MS. It's always a good idea tocheck in with the Windows Update feature of your browser to see what ismost recently available. MS is so fraught with security breaches, and the OSso simple when compared to Mac, that it is an easy target for people who'venothing better to do than sit around and create virii/worm/Trojans, etc., notto mention that there are more MS OS out there than anything. These guyshave listservs just like this one through which they communicate, thoughmore covert. They do theirs through 'rooms' that are virtually impossible totrace, or get into without having been invited. It can be done but requiressome very sophisticated manipulations. Even if you do get into one of therooms the task of finding out who's who is impossible. They are all takingadvantage of the socket layers and spoofing domains and addresses. Not allwho do this are malicious about it, though. M-D From: OK so how do we get it out of our computer? http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Fri Dec 7 08:36:37 2001 fB7Eaat01265 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:36:36 -0600 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:36:35 -0500 Subject: Cattanach Video Hi Folks - I am looking for a copy of Wayne Cattanachs video on rod making- ANY help in finding a copy would be most appreciated. Thanks in advanceand best wishes for the holidays! Alec Stansell Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from shane_person@telus.net Fri Dec 7 09:34:11 2001 fB7FYAt03567 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:34:10 -0600 Subject: Forest Lake Hi all,Talk of big fish generates lots of interest doesn't it? For those whoare interested, here is some info on Forest Lake. Forest Lake is about 25km (15 Mi) north of Williams Lake on the CaribooHwy and then about 12km (7 Mi) up the Lynes Creek Rd. Williams Lake,where I live, is in the south central part of British Columbia, an areawhich is known as the Cariboo, famed for its gold rush in the 1860's andits excellent fishing lakes. The lake is about 250 acres and fairlyshallow, with lots of weedbeds full of scuds, dragonflies, damselfliesand leeches. There is a good caddis hatch (the travelling sedge) inJune, a minor mayfly hatch in early July, and periods when the fish willonly take chironamids. July and August are usually pretty slow due towarming of the water. Gear is restricted to artificial flies only, and it is amazing to seesome of the rigs people put together with a fly. I have seen some guystrolling 6-8 inch leech patterns with heavy boat rods and lead-corelines - and yep, they said they were fly fishing!:) The fish are Kamloops rainbows and get up to 18 lbs although the averageis 4 - 6 lbs. Dragon Lake is 5km (3 Mi) south of Quesnel, which is 115km (70 Mi) northof Williams Lake. It is about twice the size of Forest Lake, and due toits proximity to Quesnel, gets quite a bit of pressure. It is one of thefirst lakes to thaw in the spring. Its fish reach about 12 lbs. There are hundreds more great lakes in this part of the country so y'allcome and give 'em a try some time! Shane. Ray Gould wrote: Hi Shane,I have not fished Forest lake, where is it? maybe I should make a trip upthere if it's still worth the effort (next year of course).Ray----- Original Message -----From: "Shane Person" Cc: "Rodmakers" Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:28 PMSubject: Re: In defence of Hardy reels Greetings from the frozen northThought I would chime in since you are talking about my turf. I hope youdidn't pass up Forest Lake on your way to Dragon. I took a 13 lb 33incher from Forest Lake on a Hardy Marquis 5 or 6 years ago. Now that'show I like to propel my belly boat!Shane. Ray Gould wrote: Hi to all,It's time for me to weigh in on this one. I believe that reel capacity is more important than the type of drag because a really big fish will havehis/her way anyhow. And besides this gives me a chance to brag aboutmy big fish a rainbow caught in Dragon lake B.C. It was 32 1/2 inches long andweighed 11 1/2 lbs. and was a really strong fighter. The reel was a Hardy as I recall and it had lots of 20 lb dacron backing. When I took my one andonly trip to Alaska I used a Hardy St. Aidan because of its large linecapacity and it worked out just fine. Like others on this list my favorite reel is the Hardy Perfect (with the agate line guide) in the 3 3/8" size. It's just right for the type of fishing I do.Ray from wkifer@harborside.com Fri Dec 7 10:26:03 2001 fB7GQ2t06032 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:26:02 -0600 Subject: Fwd: Harborside Internet: Virus Scan Results. --=======6CB0B78======= ascii; format=flowed Heads Up Gentlemen!! From: Cc: wkifer@harborside.comSubject: Harborside Internet: Virus Scan Results.Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2001 19:46:36 -0800Importance: high RAV AntiVirus for FreeBSD i386 version: 8.3.0 (snapshot- 20010925)Copyright (c) 1996-2001 GeCAD The Software Company. All rightsreserved.16 more days to evaluate.Running on host: mail.harborside.com -------------------------- Harborside Internet's mail server found the file (UPXW) attached to mail with the subject:' Re: Re: Wetplaning the Good/bad...ugly? ' sent by mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com to wkifer@harborside.com,to be infected with virus: Win32/Badtrans.B@mm. Cannot clean this file. This file has been deleted for your protection.If you have any questions please contact our technical support staff at 1-800-680-8855. Due to the constantly changing nature of computer viruses, Harborside can not be responsible for any damage done to a customer's computer. Customers should continue to use their own virus protection software and maintain the latest updates. -------------------------- Scan engine 8.5 for i386.Last update: Tue Dec 4 04:38:28 2001Scanning for 64182 malwares (viruses, trojans and worms). To get a free 60-days evaluation version of RAV AntiVirus v8(yet fully functional) please visit: http://www.ravantivirus.com --=======6CB0B78=======-- from JNL123141@msn.com Fri Dec 7 10:48:10 2001 fB7Gm9t07051 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:48:09 -0600 Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:47:56 -0800 Subject: Re: question?? FILETIME=[EB95FDA0:01C17F3E] I got one from him but the message said my server was down or somethingt=o that effect. I hope it was my computer's blocking message. Let's ship= ----- Original Message ----- Subject: question?? John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy "Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com I got onefrom=him but the message said my server was down or something to thateffect.= =- Original Message ----- From: timothy troester Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:38 kn= big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i fi= ade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe_________=_________________________________________Do YouYahoo!?Send your =FREE holiday greetingsonline!http://greetings.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 7 11:08:03 2001 fB7H82t08141 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:08:02 -0600 Dec 2001 09:07:58 PST Subject: Re: Fw: Twist (not the dance) doug,this could be your first spiral rod. see ifyou can do the same to thetip [:)] mike now this is a rod maker! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Dec 7 11:50:47 2001 fB7Holt10337 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:50:47 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:50:00 -0800 Subject: Re: question?? --------------DE7A8ADF9CCD305BBE76DAEE Whoa now John, John's a good listmember. He's just had the same virustrouble lots of folks have had over the past week or so. Ifyou got a private message with the virus attached, it meanshe thought enough of you to have you in his Address Book,that's all. I'm sure he'll have this straightened out soon. Harry John Long wrote: I got one from him but the message said my server was downor something to that effect. I hope it was my computer'sblocking message. Let's ship the guy to Afghanistan... ----- Original Message -----From: timothy troesterSent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: question??John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i haverecievedtwo emails from him with big virus filesattached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i findthe hehas blocked my emails. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe _________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------DE7A8ADF9CCD305BBE76DAEE Whoa now John, If you got a private message with the virus attached, it means he thought he'll have this straightened out soon. John Long wrote:I got one from him but the message said my server ----- Original Message ----- From:timothy troester Sent: Thursday, December 06, 200111:38 PM Subject: question?? two emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the he ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!"...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com --Harry Boyd --------------DE7A8ADF9CCD305BBE76DAEE-- from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Fri Dec 7 11:57:17 2001 fB7HvHt10852 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:57:17 -0600 "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: question?? Again, I am sorry for this. It wasn't me that blocked emails, it was the worm =that I got hit with last night.I have things cleaned up and I apologize profusely for this, but it =didn't originate with me. It was sent to me and for some reason my Anti =virus program didn't pick up on it while it took hold of my email =program and sent emails out all over the universe. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this has caused anyone-but I have =also been affected by the virus that was sent to me. I spent a number =of hours last night and then again this morning fixing the problem. I =have also spent a good part of the day apolgizing... Please don't send me to Afganistan-send whoever the sick mind is that =devised this worm. I'm every bit a victim of it as all of you are. Sincerely, John Kenealy Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:47 AMSubject: Re: question?? I got one from him but the message said my server was down or =something to that effect. I hope it was my computer's blocking message. = ----- Original Message -----From: timothy troesterSent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: question?? John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy "Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com Again, emails, it was the worm that I got hit with last night.I have things cleaned up and I apologize = reason my Anti virus program didn't pick up on it while it took hold of = program and sent emails out all over the universe. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this has = anyone-but I have also been affected by the virus that was sent to = spent a number of hours last night and then again this morning fixing = apolgizing... Please don't send me to Afganistan-send whoever= mind is that devised this worm. I'm every bit a victim of it as all of = are. Sincerely, John Kenealy ----- Original Message ----- John = 'akers Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001= AMSubject: Re: question?? I got one from him but the message said my server was down or = ----- Original Message ----- timothy troesterSent: Thursday, December 06, = PM Subject: question?? with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an = mornin', mister bear!"...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade = =E.A.Poe__________________________________________________Do= =online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from CALucker@aol.com Fri Dec 7 12:13:45 2001 fB7IDit11772 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:13:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Cattanach Video In a message dated 12/7/01 6:37:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, alec@antiquarianbooks.net writes: - I am looking for a copy of Wayne Cattanachs video on rod making- ANY help in finding a copy would be most appreciated I have a copy that Wayne sent me way back when he was almost completedwith the project. It is the pre-edited version. I think it is longer than the version he sold. Does he have no more for sale? Chris Lucker In a message dated12/7/01 6:37:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, alec@antiquarianbooks.netwrites: - I am looking - ANY help in finding a copy would be most appreciated I have a copy that Wayne sent me way back when he was almost Chris Lucker from rcolo@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 7 12:19:35 2001 fB7IJYt12160 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:19:34 -0600 id 16CPaV-0002SQ-00; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 13:19:08 -0500 , "rod 'akers" Subject: Re: question?? Hi John, I tried to open youe e-mail because it had "Henryville" in it and I =thought it was ok. I was not able to open it ??? How do I know I have =the virus.....Rich Colo Stupid on my part.....I never open attachments! -----Original Message-----From: John Kenealy =; rod 'akers Subject: Re: question?? Again, I am sorry for this. It wasn't me that blocked emails, it was the =worm that I got hit with last night.I have things cleaned up and I apologize profusely for this, but it =didn't originate with me. It was sent to me and for some reason my Anti =virus program didn't pick up on it while it took hold of my email =program and sent emails out all over the universe. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this has caused anyone-but I =have also been affected by the virus that was sent to me. I spent a =number of hours last night and then again this morning fixing the =problem. I have also spent a good part of the day apolgizing... Please don't send me to Afganistan-send whoever the sick mind is =that devised this worm. I'm every bit a victim of it as all of you are. Sincerely, John Kenealy Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:47 AMSubject: Re: question?? I got one from him but the message said my server was down or =something to that effect. I hope it was my computer's blocking message. = ----- Original Message -----From: timothy troesterSent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: question?? John Kenealy does anyone know who this person is? i have recievedtwo emails from him with big virus files attached.when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my emails. timothy "Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com Hi John, Colo attachments! -----Original = John Kenealy <mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalle= JNL123141@msn.com = tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com = = question??Again, emails, it was the worm that I got hit with last night.I have things cleaned up and I apologize = reason my Anti virus program didn't pick up on it while it took hold = email program and sent emails out all over the =universe. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this = anyone-but I have also been affected by the virus that was sent to = I spent a number of hours last night and then again this morning = apolgizing... Please don't send me to Afganistan-send = sick mind is that devised this worm. I'm every bit a victim of it as = you are. Sincerely, John Kenealy ----- Original Message ----- = Sent: Friday, December = 11:47 AMSubject: Re: =question?? I got one from him but the message said my server was down = ----- Original Message =----- timothy troesterSent: Thursday, = 2001 11:38 PM Subject: =question?? from him with big virus files attached.when i try to = with an inquiry i find the hehas blocked my = bear!"...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade = = =online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from JNL123141@msn.com Fri Dec 7 14:07:37 2001 fB7K7bt16270 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:07:37 -0600 Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:07:31 -0800 Subject: Re: question?? FILETIME=[CDA39AC0:01C17F5A] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: question?? John's a good listmember. He's just had the same virus trouble lots =of folks have had over the past week or so. If you got a private message=with the virus attached, it means he thought enough of you to have you i=n his Address Book, that's all. I'm sure he'll have this straightened ou= I got one from him but the message said my server was down or somethingt=o that effect. I hope it was my computer's blocking message. Let's ship= ----- Original Message ----- Subject: question?? Sorry, Ithoug= He'=s just had the same virus trouble lots of folks have had over the past we= means he thought enough of you to have you in his Address Book, that's al= fr=om him but the message said my server was down or something to thateffec= <_mtnvalleyflies@m= ve recieved two emails from him with big virus files attached. wh=en i try to email him with an inquiry i find the he has blocked my em= bear!=" ...Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, - "If you seek fo=r Eldorado!" - - E.A.Poe _____________________________________________=_____ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Fri Dec 7 16:03:57 2001 fB7M3tt21156 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:03:56 -0600 Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:00:06 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:03:47 -0700 "tausfeld@frontiernet.net" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes FILETIME=[86B0F710:01C17F6A] fB7M3ut21157 All tubing and received a nice price break. I have way to much of it and willshare it with list members at my cost (2.50/ ft.), plus shipping. If yourinterested, contact me off list. Jim Harris "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" 12/06/01 09:26PM Gearge and all who replied, MSC has 1 1/2" for about $6 / foot. I found 1 5/8" , .058" wall for $3/ ft. Igot prices quote as high as $8 / ft. One place said $320 for a 12' pole!!!! Iordered it at Pacemaker-Millar in Utica NY(on web). I found 2" brass rod for$36/ ft. P-M was close to this, if went at them with volume, I could probablydo better. If there is interest maybe a group buy would be in order. Ifinterested, e-mail me offlist with "tubing" in the subject line. Tom----- Original Message ----- From: irish-george Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:35 PMSubject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes Have you tried MSC (www.mscdirect.com)? I thought their pricing lookedreasonable the last time I looked. George----- Original Message ----- From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld 8:58 AMSubject: Aluminum rod tubes Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod tubes?? The places around hereseem very expensive, i.e. I can buy a finished tube for the same price as rawmaterials. The tubing spec is 6061-T6 - 1 5/8" OD wall .058" thankstom ausfeld from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Dec 7 18:25:14 2001 fB80PDt25827 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 18:25:13 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16CVIh-0000P6-00; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 19:25:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Cattanach Video I got mine from Cabelas, via advice from the List.Ed Subject: Re: Cattanach Video In a message dated 12/7/01 6:37:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, = - ANY help in finding a copy would be most appreciated I have a copy that Wayne sent me way back when he was almost completed=with the project. It is the pre-edited version. I think it is longer = I got mine from Cabelas, via advice = List.Ed ----- Original Message ----- =; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Cattanach =VideoIn a = 12/7/01 6:37:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, alec@antiquarianbooks.net= - I am looking for a copy of Wayne Cattanachs video on = appreciatedI have a copythat = from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Dec 7 19:18:33 2001 fB81IXt26986 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:18:33 -0600 Subject: crowler pole rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Have any of you ever read the story by Robert Traver called "The Crowler Pole"? If so you will understand what I am about to tell you. I ordered a new bamboo rod from one of the guys on the list and it seems to have disappeared in transit from him to me. Now I feel that for the next several years I am going to get the occasional letter telling me how great the rod is and how when the guy gets around to it he will send it to me. Well, the story goes for many years before the guy finally ends up sending it on the way. If you want to know the rest of the story read it in either Trout Madness or Trout Magic, I can't remember which one. I just hope the Post Office finds my rod before I get too old to enjoy it.Bret Have any of you ever rod from one of the guys on the list and it seems to have disappeared in am going to get the occasional letter telling me how great the rod is and how goes for many years before the guy finally ends up sending it on the Trout Madness or Trout Magic, I can't remember which enjoy it.Bret from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Dec 7 19:31:07 2001 fB81V5t27461 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:31:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Virus (Trojan, Worm) problems One solution is to run a simpler and less susceptible e-mail client suchas Eudora or Eudora Pro(older editions are free). These programs do nothave the capability to run any executable files. I have received everyone of the viri that the rest of you have, and I have never been infected the problems. Now, having said that, if you open an unsolicitedattachment you can expect trouble. Here is a method to help avoidspreading these pesky critters which has been posted here before but isworth repeating: Here's what you do; first, open your address book and click on "new contact" just as you would do if you were adding a new friend to your list of e-mail addresses. In the window where you would type yourfriend's first name, type in !000 (that's an exclamation mark followed by3 zeros). In the window below where it prompts you to enter the newe-mail address, type in "Worm Alert," which of course, isn't a reale-mail address. Then complete everything by clicking add, enter, ok, etc. Now, here's what you've done and why it works: the "name" !000 will be placed at the top of your address book as entry #1. This will be where the worm will start in an effort to send itself to all your friends. Butwhen it tries to send itself to !000, it will be undeliverable because ofthe phony e- mail address you entered (Worm Alert). If the first attemptfails (which it will because of the phony address), the worm goes nofurther and your contacts will not be infected. Here's the second great advantage of this method: if an e-mail cannot bedelivered, you will be notified of this in your In box almost immediately. Hence, if you ever get an e-mail telling you that an e-mail addressed to Worm Alert could not be delivered, you know right away thatyou have the worm virus in your system. You can then take steps to getrid of it! -Doug At 01:12 PM 12/7/2001 -0200, you wrote: ArialHi John, ArialI tried to open youe e-mail because ithad "Henryville" in it and I thought it was ok. I was not able to openit ??? How do I know I have the virus.....Rich Colo ArialStupid on my part.....Inever openattachments! -----Original Message----- mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com> JNL123141@msn.com>;tjtrodmaker@yahoo.comtjtrodmaker@yahoo.com>; rod 'akersRODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu> Subject: Re: question?? ArialAgain, I am sorry for this. It wasn't me that blocked emails, it was the wormthat I got hit with last night. I have things cleaned up and I apologize profusely for this, but itdidn't originate with me. It was sent to me and for some reason my Antivirus program didn't pick up on it while it took hold of my email programand sent emails out all over the universe. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this has caused anyone-but I havealso been affected by the virus that was sent to me. I spent a number ofhours last night and then again this morning fixing the problem. I havealso spent a good part of the day apolgizing... Please don't send me to Afganistan-send whoever the sick mind is thatdevised this worm. I'm every bit a victim of it as all of you are. Sincerely, John Kenealy ----- Original Message ----- From: John Long tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com ;rod 'akers Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: Re: question?? I got one from him but the message said my server was downor something to that effect. I hope it was my computer's blockingmessage. Let's ship the guy to Afghanistan... ----- Original Message ----- From: timothy troester Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: question?? John Kenealy_mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com> does anyone know who this person is? i have recieved two emails from him with big virus files attached. when i try to email him with an inquiry i find the he has blocked my emails. timothy ===== "Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, - "If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com from alec@antiquarianbooks.net Fri Dec 7 19:38:21 2001 fB81cKt27736 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:38:20 -0600 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:38:19 -0500 Subject: Cattanach Video Thanks for all the replies re: the Cattanach Video - I've got one on itsway to me. Merry Christmas to all! Alec Alec Stansell, Antiquarian Books16 Howland LaneWellfleet Massachusetts 02667USAwww.antiquarianbooks.netemail:alec@antiquarianbooks.netA member of Massachusetts and Rhode Island Antiquarian BooksellersAssociation from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 7 19:50:30 2001 fB81oTt28185 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:50:29 -0600 Dec 2001 17:50:29 PST Subject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu i would be intrested in someone quoting me a price toturn some brass ends for aluminum tubes. timothy --- Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Gearge and all who replied, MSC has 1 1/2" for about $6 / foot. I found 1 5/8", .058" wall for $3/ ft. I got prices quote as highas $8 / ft. One place said $320 for a 12' pole!!!! I ordered it at Pacemaker-Millar in Utica NY(onweb). I found 2" brass rod for $36/ ft. P-M wasclose to this, if went at them with volume, I couldprobably do better. If there is interest maybe agroup buy would be in order. If interested, e-mailme offlist with "tubing" in the subject line. Tom----- Original Message ----- From: irish-george rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:35PMSubject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes Have you tried MSC (www.mscdirect.com)? I thoughttheir pricing looked reasonable the last time Ilooked.George----- Original Message ----- From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld 8:58 AMSubject: Aluminum rod tubes Hello, Has anybody recently got tubing for rod tubes?? The places around here seem very expensive, i.e. Ican buy a finished tube for the same price as rawmaterials. The tubing spec is 6061-T6 - 1 5/8" OD wall.058" thankstom ausfeld ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from oakmere@carol.net Fri Dec 7 20:07:51 2001 fB827ot28664 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:07:51 -0600 fB826xf04712 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:07:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Requesting Info on Some Bamboo Rods Hi Folks: I have come upon five rods that I would like some input on. I have checkedseveral of the known sources. One is a Montague so no input there. Help onthe other four. Rod 1. Leonard, 9'6" Special Tournament; 5" cork grip; 3 piece, 2 tips; noextension butt. All sections are original length. Looks like a salmon rodbut no extension butt. Rod is straight with no broken pieces. Orignialferrules and reel seat. Reel seat has Leonard markings. No other markingson the rod. Slightly swelled butt. Many guides are off on the mid-sectionand butt section. The two tips are in a special aluminum tube with brasscap and are in reasonable shape, but with cracked varnish. Has intermediatewrappings. Red windings with black tipping on existing guides. Ferrules andreel seat appear to be nickel silver. Rod needs complete refinishing andnew guides (or replacement of old style guides). General shape I wouldcharacterize as poor. Anyone provide more information on this rod. Any one provide a valueestimate? Rod 2. Signature rod with the name "Jack L. Tyers" signature in script;number 5778-9 in script on butt section. Rod is in fair shape. 9', 3 piece,1 tip; needs guides replacement and ferrules are ok. All sections appear tobe original length. Reel seat has been replaced with a cheap old aluminumgreen one (my guess circa 1959's). Guide wraps are olive/green in colorunderneath wraps. There is no tipping wraps. General shape I wouldcharacterize as poor. Anyone know about this rod? Value estimate? Rod3 Marshall Fields; Fields Special (I checked and this may be either aWright and McGill or Heddon make - not sure which). 9', 3 piece, 2 tips;red wraps with to tipping wraps. Sections are of original length. Needsrefinished and rewrapped. Intermediate wraps are spaced about every 1 inch.Appears to have nickle silver ferrules and reel seat. Markings are on thereel seat. There are no markings on the butt section. General shape I wouldconsider as medium. Anyone have ideas on this rod? Value estimate? Rod 4: This is a rod with "Made in the USA" on the reel seat. There are noother markings. It is 9' 3 piece with two tips. There is a bamboo rod tubewith the two 3' rod tips in it. The bamboo rod tube is old and has a brasstop. The two tips and rod sections have red windings with black tippingsimilar to the Leonard rod. There are no other markings on the rod. Thebutt female ferrule is missing and will need replaced. The male ferrulesmatch the mid section ferrules. I would characterize the shape of this rodas poor. Any ideas on this rod? Value estimate. All the rods need refinishing and rework before fishing, but all rodsappear to have their bamboo intact and of usable quality. I see no cracksin any of the glue lines. Well thank you to anyone who can provide some input on more details,history and value. I have been checking all the sellers books out there andonly found two listings for the Leonard. A little on the Montague. Thanks Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 7 20:14:00 2001 fB82Dxt28903 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:13:59 -0600 7 Dec 2001 21:13:54 -0500 Subject: How much sanding is okay? Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod oneBay. Are there too many fibers showing? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 7 20:27:58 2001 fB82Rvt29307 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:27:58 -0600 helo=default) id 16CXDU-0006yS-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:27:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Virus (Trojan, Worm) problems Gents, We had a mini-discussion on this back in September. If any are tempted =to use this method of viral alert, I would first suggest you read =http://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa082801b.htm and = M-D One solution is to run a simpler and less susceptible e-mail client =such as Eudora or Eudora Pro(older editions are free). These programs do =not have the capability to run any executable files. I have received =every one of the viri that the rest of you have, and I have never been =infected by any of these simple Trojans. I would not blame the Windows =OS for all the problems. Now, having said that, if you open an =unsolicited attachment you can expect trouble. Here is a method to help =avoid spreading these pesky critters which has been posted here before =but is worth repeating: list of e-mail addresses. In the window where you would type your =friend's first name, type in !000 (that's an exclamation mark followed = e-mail address, type in "Worm Alert," which of course, isn't a real =e-mail address. Then complete everything by clicking add, enter, ok, = Now, here's what you've done and why it works: the "name" !000 will be = placed at the top of your address book as entry #1. This will be where = the worm will start in an effort to send itself to all your friends. =But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be undeliverable =because of the phony e-mail address you entered (Worm Alert). If the =first attempt fails (which it will because of the phony address), the = Here's the second great advantage of this method: if an e-mail cannot = immediately. Hence, if you ever get an e-mail telling you that an = addressed to Worm Alert could not be delivered, you know right away =that you have the worm virus in your system. You can then take steps to = -Doug Gents, We had a mini-discussion = in September. If any are tempted to use this method of viral alert, I = first suggest you read http://a= M-D Douglas = Easton solution is to run a simpler and less susceptible e-mail client such = or Eudora Pro(older editions are free). These programs do not have the = capability to run any executable files. I have received every one of = that the rest of you have, and I have never been infected by any of = simple Trojans. I would not blame the Windows OS for all the problems. = having said that, if you open an unsolicited attachment you can expect = trouble. Here is a method to help avoid spreading these pesky critters = has been posted here before but is worth repeating:Here's what= first, open your address book and click on "new contact" just as = do if you were adding a new friend to your list of e-mail = the window where you would type your friend's first name, type in !000 = an exclamation mark followed by 3 zeros). In the window below where it = you to enter the new e-mail address, type in "Worm Alert," which of = isn't a real e-mail address. Then complete everything by clicking add, = ok, etc. Now, here's what you've done and why it works: the = !000 will be placed at the top of your address book as entry #1. = be where the worm will start in an effort to send itself to all = friends. But when it tries to send itself to !000, it will be = because of the phony e-mail address you entered (Worm Alert). If the = attempt fails (which it will because of the phony address), the worm = further and your contacts will not be infected. Here's the = great advantage of this method: if an e-mail cannot be delivered, you = notified of this in your In box almost immediately. Hence, if you = an e-mail telling you that an e-mail addressed to Worm Alert could = delivered, you know right away that you have the worm virus in your = -Doug from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 7 20:39:33 2001 fB82dXt29723 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:39:33 -0600 helo=default) id 16CXOl-0005YJ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:39:32 -0500 Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? That's more than I like to see, but I'm more interested in that lunacy of anauction. $ 4,350.00 ????Nunley, you just thought you did well with your Howell's rod. M-D Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod on eBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 7 20:46:05 2001 fB82k4t00130 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:46:04 -0600 Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? M-D:I agree.I had just asked about the sanding becasue even my Hardy, HI Tonka Queen,orSB/Cross rods aren't sanded that much.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? That's more than I like to see, but I'm more interested in that lunacy of anauction. $ 4,350.00 ???? from channer@frontier.net Fri Dec 7 20:50:20 2001 fB82oKt00465 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:50:20 -0600 Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? Bob;I don't think I am going to find fault with Gary Howell's work until myrods bring as much as his do.John Bob Maulucci wrote: Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod oneBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob from shane_person@telus.net Fri Dec 7 21:10:30 2001 fB83ATt01295 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:10:29 -0600 Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:09:44 -0700 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: crowler pole Hi all,I haven't read Traver for a few years, so I dug out my copies of TroutMagic and Trout Madness, but alas, there is no story called "The Crowlerpole" in either one. Thinking that it might be an anecdote in one of thestories in these two books, I did a complete skim (oxymoron?) of thembut still no luck. Perhaps it is in one of Travers other works? However, I was rewarded with the first line from "Is There a Mermaid inYour Creel?""Fly fishing is such great fun, I have often felt, that it really oughtto be done in bed."I also now know the source of Timothy Troester's tag line. I obviously have too much time on my hands. Maybe my wife would like tofly fish in bed. [:)] Shane Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Have any of you ever read the story by Robert Traver called "TheCrowler Pole"? If so you will understand what I am about to tellyou. I ordered a new bamboo rod from one of the guys on the list andit seems to have disappeared in transit from him to me. Now I feelthat for the next several years I am going to get the occasionalletter telling me how great the rod is and how when the guy getsaround to it he will send it to me. Well, the story goes for manyyears before the guy finally ends up sending it on the way. If youwant to know the rest of the story read it in either Trout Madness orTrout Magic, I can't remember which one. I just hope the Post Officefinds my rod before I get too old to enjoy it.Bret from thogan@rochester.rr.com Fri Dec 7 21:22:26 2001 fB83MPt01613 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:22:25 -0600 fB83MIE26422; "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? I give.What picture depicts "too much sanding"Please enlighten me.What exactly do you see that is distastefull? with much interestTaylor----- Original Message ----- Subject: How much sanding is okay? Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod on eBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob from martinrjensen@attbi.com Fri Dec 7 21:49:27 2001 fB83nQt02351 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:49:26 -0600 Sat, 8 Dec 2001 03:49:17 +0000 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e'" Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Organization: wish I had some Huh? How can you have too many power fibers showing? Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: How much sanding is okay? Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rodon eBay. Are there too many fibers showing? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering. Bob from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 7 22:14:11 2001 fB84EAt03127 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:14:10 -0600 Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? John:I do not mean to sound like I am finding fault, just preference. I have seenmore rods heavily sanded as of late, and I am surprised by it. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? Bob;I don't think I am going to find fault with Gary Howell's work until myrods bring as much as his do.John Bob Maulucci wrote: Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod on eBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Fri Dec 7 22:25:47 2001 fB84Pkt03465 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:25:46 -0600 Fri, 7 Dec 2001 20:25:33 -0800 Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:25:32 GMT Subject: Tony Larson FILETIME=[606B3C60:01C17FA0] List addressGet your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 7 22:28:58 2001 fB84Svt03706 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:28:57 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Yes, it is a lot Taylor:The hook keeper shot, the signature, the stripping guide shot. I do not seethe streaks from the power fibers in most of the rods I have seen othersmake. I have never considered sanding this much. I never said anything was"distasteful", but now that you bring it out of me, this rod looks one stepabove the PAIN rod that was the topic of last month's laughs.I am not trying to discredit anybody here, as we all know I am no GaryHowells, but I have to repeat a comment I just made to someone off list."I guess what I am trying to say is...I could make a heck of a lot nicer rodif sanding the bejeebers out of it is now acceptable. How come I did not getthe memo on this one?"Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? I give.What picture depicts "too much sanding"Please enlighten me.What exactly do you see that is distastefull? with much interestTaylor----- Original Message ----- Subject: How much sanding is okay? Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod on eBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 7 22:28:59 2001 fB84Swt03710 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:28:58 -0600 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e'" Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Martin:I am just saying that in my own experience (obviously nowhere nearHowell's), I would be inclined to stop way before coming to this point. WhenI see this streakiness and those light colored fibers coming through, I stopsanding and get the dip tank warming up.Maybe my monitor needs tweaking? Or maybe my head?Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Huh? How can you have too many power fibers showing? Martin Jensen from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 7 22:30:39 2001 fB84Uct04056 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:30:38 -0600 Subject: RE: Tony Larson pumpkin10@prodigy.net or try his new website athttp://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/index.htmlGreat stuff.Bob----- Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:26 AM Subject: Tony Larson ListDoes anyone have Tony Larson's e-mail address ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com pumpkin10@prodigy.net or try= website at http://pages.prodi=gy.net/pumpkin10/index.html stuff.Bob BureauSent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:26 = RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Tony =Larson List address Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from martinrjensen@attbi.com Fri Dec 7 22:40:43 2001 fB84eht04535 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:40:43 -0600 Sat, 8 Dec 2001 04:40:37 +0000 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e'" Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Organization: wish I had some I guess I may be missing something. I thought that the power fiberswould always show up. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Martin:I am just saying that in my own experience (obviously nowhere nearHowell's), I would be inclined to stop way before coming to this point.When I see this streakiness and those light colored fibers comingthrough, I stop sanding and get the dip tank warming up. Maybe mymonitor needs tweaking? Or maybe my head? Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Huh? How can you have too many power fibers showing? Martin Jensen from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Dec 7 23:45:03 2001 fB85j3t05678 for ; Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:45:03 -0600 fB85j0t21570 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 00:45:00 -0500 Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Yes, it is a lot On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Bob Maulucci wrote: Taylor:The hook keeper shot, the signature, the stripping guide shot. I do not seethe streaks from the power fibers in most of the rods I have seen othersmake. I have never considered sanding this much. I never said anything was"distasteful", but now that you bring it out of me, this rod looks one stepabove the PAIN rod that was the topic of last month's laughs. There is another Pain rod on eBay at the moment (coming out of Australia),and one sold by the same seller a day or so ago (around low $200's Ibelieve) Regards, BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 8 00:32:49 2001 fB86Wlt06495 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 00:32:47 -0600 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e'" Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Matbe the rod was linished? Ok I shouldn't have said that [:-)] Tony At 08:41 PM 12/7/01 -0800, Martin Jensen wrote: I guess I may be missing something. I thought that the power fiberswould always show up. Martin Jensen /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing/*************************************************************************/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Dec 8 03:25:41 2001 fB89Pet08129 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 03:25:40 -0600 Sat, 8 Dec 2001 01:25:31 -0800 Sat, 08 Dec 2001 09:25:31 GMT Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? FILETIME=[48464290:01C17FCA] It looks a bit 'grainy' but I have seen that before in some photos that tend to bring that out. 4K+! WOW! Time to float those old 'deathbed' rumors....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: How much sanding is okay?Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:08:59 -0500 Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod oneBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Dec 8 04:56:07 2001 fB8Au6t09138 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 04:56:06 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 0.959179 secs); 08 Dec 200110:43:31 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? --------------56F9DF7E5E84066C8F985017 Hi Bob, I see what you mean but I think it's just some very dense cane.Judging from the price it should be solid gold. The first 2 rods I made 15 years agogoing by the Garrison /Carmichael book have way to much enamel left on thecane. I was so afraid to take one more swipe with the file because Hoagymadeit sound like (at least to me) if you cut into the power fibers the rod isworthless. I learned fast not to believe everything I read in print. Best,Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod oneBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob --------------56F9DF7E5E84066C8F985017 Hi Bob, I see what you mean but I think it's just some very dense cane.Judging from the price it should be solid gold. The first 2 rods I made15 years ago going by the Garrison /Carmichael book have way to muchenamelleft on the cane. I was so afraid to take one more swipe with the filebecause Hoagy made it sound like (at least to me) if you cut into the power I read in print. Best, MartyBob Maulucci wrote:Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell'srod oneBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob --------------56F9DF7E5E84066C8F985017-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Dec 8 06:03:17 2001 fB8C3Ft09850 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 06:03:15 -0600 fB8C34r46325; Subject: Re: Aluminum rod tubes So would we all, Timothy, so would we all! Peter from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 8 06:35:18 2001 fB8CZHt10298 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 06:35:17 -0600 Subject: Howell Rod I do like the stripping guide. Don't care for the wraps on the ferrule.Are there stripping guides like this available today? Regards, Steve from bob@downandacross.com Sat Dec 8 07:25:46 2001 fB8DPjt10858 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 07:25:45 -0600 Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? A good "Paul is dead" rumour could help. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? It looks a bit 'grainy' but I have seen that before in some photosthat tendto bring that out. 4K+! WOW! Time to float those old 'deathbed' rumors....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: How much sanding is okay?Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:08:59 -0500 Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod oneBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sat Dec 8 08:25:33 2001 fB8EPXt12168 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:25:33 -0600 Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? Al that sanding just tuckered him out and he dropped in a heap at his workbench........It was a sad day in rodmaking history..........----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? A good "Paul is dead" rumour could help. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:26 AM Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? It looks a bit 'grainy' but I have seen that before in some photosthat tendto bring that out. 4K+! WOW! Time to float those old 'deathbed' rumors....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: How much sanding is okay?Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:08:59 -0500 Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod on eBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Dec 8 09:06:03 2001 fB8F62t13407 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:06:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Virus (Trojan, Worm) problems At 08:20 PM 12/7/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: BaskervilleGents, BaskervilleWe had amini-discussion on this back in September. If any are tempted to use thismethod of viral alert, I would first suggest you read Baskerville0000,0000,fefehttp://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa082801b.htmand0000,0000,fefehttp://vmyths.com/hoax.cfm?id=263&page=3&cat=Poor%20advice%20from%20non-experts BaskervilleM-D Good information JoJo! I am very sorry If I have mislead any of you. I do notuse the bogus address method myself and I guess I shouldn't pass anythingon I don't use. I do, however, use Eudora Pro and Norton Anti-Virus 2001 v8(checks outgoing mail) at home and Netscape at work. I do not openattachments I do not expect. Of course my Eudora doesn't like messageswith HTML and other fancy stuff in them, but I have avoided showers ofTrojans and Worms. Perhaps, I am just lucky. Best to all, -Doug Doug Easton Tonawanda, NY from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Dec 8 09:20:18 2001 fB8FKHt13811 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:20:17 -0600 Subject: Todd Talsma only ajthramer@hotmail.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hey I said for Todd only what are you reading this for?Todd call me on my cell phone 219-210-4110.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 8 09:26:58 2001 fB8FQwt14095 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:26:58 -0600 helo=default) id 16CjNQ-0008CQ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:26:56 -0500 Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? The stripper guide looks like a Mildrum, still available from REC. M-D from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 8 09:28:58 2001 fB8FSvt14319 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:28:57 -0600 helo=default) id 16CjPM-0000yT-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:28:56 -0500 Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? How about, "I buried A.J." ? M-D A good "Paul is dead" rumour could help. It looks a bit 'grainy' but I have seen that before in some photosthat tendto bring that out. 4K+! WOW! Time to float those old 'deathbed' rumors....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod on eBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 8 09:31:37 2001 fB8FVat14622 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:31:37 -0600 helo=default) id 16CjRv-0007QW-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:31:36 -0500 Subject: Another Victim Guys, Douglas Losey is the latest to succumb to the same infection that had JohnKenealy. I knew as soon as I saw the subject line it was probably the samething. Beware! M-D from bob@downandacross.com Sat Dec 8 09:56:20 2001 fB8FuJt15156 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:56:19 -0600 8 Dec 2001 10:56:13 -0500 Subject: Using Ferrulite Hot Glue and Binding Tabs HI Guys:I was gluing up some ferrules on a rod today and was confronted by thefollowing problem. I use hot melt glue (Ferrulite, sp?) and sometimes, ifyou heat the ferrule, as recommended, and slide it onto the glue, there canbe a small tendency for the tabs to splay out from the blank. The glue setsso quickly, that it is hard to bind them down. The heat can cause the stringto break or the edges can slice it because they are popping up. I have usedthe wire binding plastic ties to do this, but you need to be quick to do itwith the hot melt, and I ran out of them earlier this week.While searching for some ties, I found a big wooden clothes pin, the springclamping kind. I noticed that they have a round cut out. Sureenough,...(sorry, had to answer the door...guess who?) the clip fitperfectly over the tabs on the blank. I reheated the tabs just slightly tomelt the glue, and I rotated the blank in the clothes pin, pressing the tabsdown onto the blank. If you do it quickly, the setting glue will grab theferrule tabs tight and they will be nicely set on the blank by the time yourotate the rod. Tabs done with no binding and no need to cut string orplastic ties off. No burned fingers either. I think this is a method worthfurther testing. Anyone else have ideas on how to bind hot ferrule tabs?Best regards,Bob from lblan@provide.net Sat Dec 8 09:56:38 2001 fB8FuZt15199 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:56:35 -0600 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:56:34 -0500 Subject: RE: Another Victim Thanks M-D. Reminded me to go grab today's update for my AV program.This isone of the things that is so insidious about these worms. They sendthemselves off to people who you have corresponded with, that may not stopand think twice before opening something from someone they know. I'vemanaged to avoid all of the worms we have seen here, and I *am* usingOutlook. Of course, my ISP has recently started filtering one the serverside, so I seldom even see them anymore. I receive updates for my AVprogramseveral times a week, on some occasions I have gotten two in one day.Keeping it up to date is just part of living today, no different thanlooking both ways before crossing the street. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: Another Victim Guys, Douglas Losey is the latest to succumb to the same infection that hadJohnKenealy. I knew as soon as I saw the subject line it was probably the samething. Beware! M-D from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Dec 8 10:01:01 2001 fB8G10t15569 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:01:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Another Victim At 09:21 AM 12/8/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Guys, Douglas Losey is the latest to succumb to the same infection that had JohnKenealy. I knew as soon as I saw the subject line it was probably the samething. Beware! M-D I have also received dangerous code under the hedder below Subject: Re: Re: Virus (Trojan, Worm) problems -D. Easton from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Sat Dec 8 12:05:20 2001 fB8I5Kt18004 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 12:05:20 -0600 ([63.214.217.234] helo=doug2) id 16Clqf-0000tK-00; Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:05:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Another Victim All,I think I have this virus fixed...sorry for any problems...... losey from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Dec 8 14:31:39 2001 fB8KVct03726 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:31:38 -0600 Organization: New Scotland fly Rods Subject: I'm back again!Sorry if I missed your message --------------649E2945FBEF9D4606076143 Did I miss anything good???I was wondering why I wasn't getting any list messages and itappears that I was bumped. So I figured it was a good time to change mylistserver messages to their own E mail account.This works out better so my old nsflyrods account is strictly forbusiness, this new one is just for listserver and I have a personal one to find business mail that might be mixed in with it! If any of you thathad sent me messages for orders or inquires and didn't receive aresponse, please re-send it to my business e mail,nsflyrods@ns.sympatico.ca or use the direct contact form on my web pagehttp://nsflyrods.tripod.caIt's kind of ironic all the unsuccessful attempts I made tounsubscribe a while back and now all the sudden I got bumped, weird??,but it worked out good because now my accounts will stay organized,Shawn --------------649E2945FBEF9D4606076143 name="bamboorules.vcf" filename="bamboorules.vcf" begin:vcard n:Pineo;Shawn url:http://nsflyrods.tripod.caorg:New Scotland Fly Rodsversion:2.1title:Owner / Rod Craftsmanadr;quoted-printable:;;20 Melrose Cr.,=0D=0A;Eastern Passage ;NovaScotia;B3G 1N6;Canadafn:Shawn Pineoend:vcard --------------649E2945FBEF9D4606076143-- from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Dec 8 16:01:11 2001 fB8M1At07771 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 16:01:10 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 0.824355 secs); 08 Dec 200122:01:09 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Using Ferrulite Hot Glue and Binding Tabs Hi Bob, After seating home and while still hot I squeeze the tabs gently withsmooth needle nose pliers. I then just heat the tabs again and roll the tabsbetween my thumb and forfinger. Works for me! Best, Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: HI Guys:I was gluing up some ferrules on a rod today and was confronted by thefollowing problem. I use hot melt glue (Ferrulite, sp?) and sometimes, ifyou heat the ferrule, as recommended, and slide it onto the glue, there canbe a small tendency for the tabs to splay out from the blank. The glue setsso quickly, that it is hard to bind them down. The heat can cause the stringto break or the edges can slice it because they are popping up. I have usedthe wire binding plastic ties to do this, but you need to be quick to do itwith the hot melt, and I ran out of them earlier this week.While searching for some ties, I found a big wooden clothes pin, the springclamping kind. I noticed that they have a round cut out. Sureenough,...(sorry, had to answer the door...guess who?) the clip fitperfectly over the tabs on the blank. I reheated the tabs just slightly tomelt the glue, and I rotated the blank in the clothes pin, pressing the tabsdown onto the blank. If you do it quickly, the setting glue will grab theferrule tabs tight and they will be nicely set on the blank by the time yourotate the rod. Tabs done with no binding and no need to cut string orplastic ties off. No burned fingers either. I think this is a method worthfurther testing. Anyone else have ideas on how to bind hot ferrule tabs?Best regards,Bob from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Dec 8 16:18:30 2001 fB8MITt08244 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 16:18:30 - QAA01532 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 16:18:29 Subject: Re: Using Ferrulite Hot Glue and Binding Tabs Bob, I don't use hotmelt glue, but I bind the ferrule tabs down with finecraft wire. You can really torque 'em down and it holds when you let up on the tension. It comes on a little spool, is gold colored and about 28 gauge, I guess.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Dec 8 16:32:01 2001 fB8MW1t08735 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 16:32:01 -0600 Subject: Harry Boyd Contact me off list please.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from b2g@jps.net Sat Dec 8 19:43:35 2001 fB91hYt11727 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 19:43:34 -0600 RAA16523 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:43:29 -0800 Subject: Guide Spacing List, The project rod that I am currently working on is a 6'-0" UL spinning rod.The taper was posted on the list earlier this year and I decided to make therod for a Christmas present. The rod is all but completed, with putting onthe guides and wrapping the rod. This is were I need your help. For somereason I have misplaced the guide spacing for this rod and I was wonderingif anyone can provide the recommended spacing for this spinner rod. Thering size of the guides are as follows: 10, 12, 16, 20, & 25. If you canhelp let me know. Thanks in advance. Robert H. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Dec 8 20:17:04 2001 fB92H3t12360 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:17:03 -0600 Subject: Bret's web site rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Just in case anyone is trying to get onto Bret's site, for hisheat treating ovens, his site is down because of an AOL problem. It should be back up in a couple of days. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Sat Dec 8 20:46:53 2001 fB92kqt12974 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2001 20:46:52 -0600 Subject: RE: Guide Spacing Dear Robert:I could not find the guide spacing for that one, if it is Rich's taper. Idid find this:http://www.rodworks.on.ca/spinrod.htmlGood luck,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Guide Spacing List, The project rod that I am currently working on is a 6'-0" UL spinning rod.The taper was posted on the list earlier this year and I decided to make therod for a Christmas present. The rod is all but completed, with putting onthe guides and wrapping the rod. This is were I need your help. For somereason I have misplaced the guide spacing for this rod and I was wonderingif anyone can provide the recommended spacing for this spinner rod. Thering size of the guides are as follows: 10, 12, 16, 20, & 25. If you canhelp let me know. Thanks in advance. Robert H. from KyleDruey@aol.com Sun Dec 9 00:52:29 2001 fB96qTt16162 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 00:52:29 - for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 01:52:15 - Subject: Node Help I started filing nodes tonight, and I would like to get some list feedback before I ruin this entire culm. I have no idea what I am doing, so I really don't know what the filing should look like when I'm done, but here's a link to a picture of a couple of nodes that I filed: http://members.aol.com/kyledruey/nodes.jpg This is what I did: split the cane in to 1/8 's (using the super cool Hida splitter - thanks Bob for the tip!), took a split section and started filing nodes as flat as possible with a Nicholson 8 inch "platics" file, filed about 1/4" off the side of each ridge & until the valley closed to about 1/8" wide. Then took 100 grit sandpaper and sanded out the file marks. I can run my finger nail over the node and the surface is smooth. The profile from the side shows a smooth humped area (no ridges or valleys). The top node was first, the bottom node was six nodes later. I would appreciate any advice on how I can improve (the pic isn't that great but was the best I could do). I've got my fire suit on so don't hold back, break out the BBQ sauce and flame away! Thanks, Kyle from martinrjensen@attbi.com Sun Dec 9 02:26:56 2001 fB98Qtt17962 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 02:26:55 - Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:26:40 +0000 Subject: RE: Node Help Organization: wish I had some You must have a dial up connection eh? So...the filing doesn't look too bad. It looks like you will have a dipin between the filed sections that is lower then the file marks. Youwill have to deal with this sooner or later. I would say that you willeither have to file the individual strip until that goes away or pressthe node or both. Personally, I would probably keep filing until I gotrid of the deep part. I am assuming that what I am looking at in thepicture is a deep part in between the file d marks. BTW the filedsections look normal. Just what I would see on one of my rods. Hope thismakes sense. If it doesn't ask me questions. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- KyleDruey@aol.com Subject: Node Help I started filing nodes tonight, and I would like to get some listfeedback before I ruin this entire culm. I have no idea what I am doing, so Ireally don't know what the filing should look like when I'm done, but here's alink to a picture of a couple of nodes that I filed: http://members.aol.com/kyledruey/nodes.jpg This is what I did: split the cane in to 1/8 's (using the super coolHida splitter - thanks Bob for the tip!), took a split section and startedfiling nodes as flat as possible with a Nicholson 8 inch "platics" file, filedabout 1/4" off the side of each ridge & until the valley closed to about 1/8"wide. Then took 100 grit sandpaper and sanded out the file marks. I can runmy finger nail over the node and the surface is smooth. The profile fromthe side shows a smooth humped area (no ridges or valleys). The top nodewas first, the bottom node was six nodes later. I would appreciate any advice on how I can improve (the pic isn't thatgreat but was the best I could do). I've got my fire suit on so don't holdback, break out the BBQ sauce and flame away! Thanks, Kyle from dmanders@telusplanet.net Sun Dec 9 07:25:30 2001 fB9DPTt20176 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 07:25:29 -0600 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Sun, 9 Dec 2001 06:25:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Using Ferrulite Hot Glue and Binding Tabs Bob, I've used ni-chrome wire - a couple of wraps and twisted off. It is tough stuffand completely unaffected by heat. regards, Don At 10:51 AM 12/8/01 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: HI Guys: I was gluing up some ferrules on a rod today and was confronted by the following problem. I use hot melt glue (Ferrulite, sp?) and sometimes, if you heat the ferrule, as recommended, and slide it onto the glue, there can be a small tendency for the tabs to splay out from the blank. The glue sets so quickly, that it is hard to bind them down. The heat can cause the string to break or the edges can slice it because they are popping up. I have used the wire binding plastic ties to do this, but you need to be quick to do it with the hot melt, and I ran out of them earlier this week. While searching for some ties, I found a big wooden clothes pin, the spring clamping kind. I noticed that they have a round cut out. Sure enough,...(sorry, had to answer the door...guess who?) the clip fit perfectly over the tabs on the blank. I reheated the tabs just slightly to melt the glue, and I rotated the blank in the clothes pin, pressing the tabs down onto the blank. If you do it quickly, the setting glue will grab the ferrule tabs tight and they will be nicely set on the blank by the time you rotate the rod. Tabs done with no binding and no need to cut string or plastic ties off. No burned fingers either. I think this is a method worth further testing. Anyone else have ideas on how to bind hot ferrule tabs? Best regards, Bob ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sun Dec 9 07:58:10 2001 fB9Dw9t20606 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 07:58:09 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:58:07 -0500 Subject: 60 degree points In all the books and frequently on the list, mention is made that the 60degree point on your depth indicator can be quite fragile and needs to be ingood condition inorder to remain accurate. I haven't seen any discussion onthe list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. So, how often do most of you replace your points so I can get a feel for how"expendable" 60 degree points are? ThanksTim from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 9 08:09:13 2001 fB9E9Ct20889 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:09:13 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:10:08 -0400 Organization: New Scotland fly Rods Subject: Re: 60 degree points --------------7D04CB091606C4EF4C1C1E0E Tim,I use the beefy 60 degree point that Russ at Golden Witch sells, Ireplace them once or twice a year, which is probably more than I need to. Iwould replace them often if I were using the small points that come withindicators.Avoid the temptation to slide the indicator down the forms, thatdefinitely saves on wear and tear, not just on your tip but the indicator baseas well, Shawn Tim Wilhelm wrote: In all the books and frequently on the list, mention is made that the 60degree point on your depth indicator can be quite fragile and needs to be ingood condition inorder to remain accurate. I haven't seen any discussiononthe list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. So, how often do most of you replace your points so I can get a feel forhow"expendable" 60 degree points are? ThanksTim --------------7D04CB091606C4EF4C1C1E0E name="bamboorules.vcf" filename="bamboorules.vcf" begin:vcard n:Pineo;Shawn url:http://nsflyrods.tripod.caorg:New Scotland Fly Rodsversion:2.1title:Owner / Rod Craftsmanadr;quoted-printable:;;20 Melrose Cr.,=0D=0A;Eastern Passage ;NovaScotia;B3G 1N6;Canadafn:Shawn Pineoend:vcard --------------7D04CB091606C4EF4C1C1E0E-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 9 08:19:16 2001 fB9EJGt21181 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:19:16 -0600 9 Dec 2001 09:19:10 -0500 Subject: All Pro Spar Varnish Was at the Pratt and Lambert local store Saturday picking up some paintingsupplies. I found out that they no longer carried the classic 61 SparVarnish. I was looking to get a little for wraps (the old ManOWar is runninglow). They did have a product called All Pro Pro Spar varnish. I was toldthat it was a classic spar, probably the same as some of the others I haveused.The thing that concerns me is that the tech info on the side of the canstated a flashpoint of 105* F. IS that a normal temperature. Seems awefullylow. In a drying cabinet with a temp at 95* or so at the top, you couldprobably achieve that without even knowing. Any have experience with thisproduct? Is this safe to try?Thanks,Bob from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sun Dec 9 08:31:31 2001 fB9EVUt21522 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:31:30 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:31:06 -0500 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Ahhhh Shawn! You nailed me dead to rights on the bad habit I haddeveloped - sliding the indicator down the form. I had already decided thatwas not a good practice and won't now that I have a new point on theindicator. I'm building a new planing form and being really anal about accuracy thistime. As I was filing the groove I was getting some depth readings thatjust didn't seem right. Nothing specific, just didn't seem right. So Idecided to change points and that is when I got to wondering about theirdurability and life span. Thanks for your input on this. Tim from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sun Dec 9 08:34:03 2001 fB9EY3t21761 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:34:03 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:33:58 -0600 "'Tim Wilhelm '" Subject: Tip Tops Has anyone tried the REC Recoil tip tops? They appear to be light weight.I built a rod with a very fine tip recently and it seemed like my standardtip top was pretty heavy. I think Bill Fink uses Fuji tip tops because oftheir light weight. Has anyone tried any other options, using just a singlefoot guide or grinding away part of the tube?? Bill Lamberson from channer@frontier.net Sun Dec 9 08:35:07 2001 fB9EZ6t21929 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:35:06 -0600 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 07:48:45 -0700 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Tim;Don't be knockin Noah, he was a great guy to do business with!(couldn'tresist that,either) Altho that's just what I hear, I really haven't beenaround since those days, lol. My point is, as you guessed, the first andonly one I bought, 6 years ago or so. It has been on the business end ofmy depth guage ever since, which sits bolt upright on the shelf over theworkbench, point down into a pine board shelf. It doesn't seem to havesuffered any, when I set my forms with it and plane a strip down flushto the form, the strip measures just what it is supposed to. I presumethat to mean that either the point and my dial caliper are bothaccurate, or they are off by the same amount.John I haven't seen any discussion on the list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Dec 9 08:44:39 2001 fB9Eict22256 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:44:38 -0600 ([209.178.134.41] helo=g2t8c9) id 16D5C0-0000IB-00; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 06:44:37 -0800 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Tim, What I do is find out how much the tip is off. I use the drill rod and formmethod to determine what the actual depth of the form is then I use the 60*tip to measure and check to see if it is off. I have a tip that is off by.002" and it is easy enough with this method to calibrate the dial indicatorso it is dead on. I mean who want to wait to get a new tip when in themiddle of a project, when you can actually determine how to compensate forit. I check my tip everytime I set a form. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: 60 degree points In all the books and frequently on the list, mention is made that the 60degree point on your depth indicator can be quite fragile and needs to be in good condition inorder to remain accurate. I haven't seen any discussion on the list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. So, how often do most of you replace your points so I can get a feel for how "expendable" 60 degree points are? ThanksTim from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 9 08:49:28 2001 fB9EnRt22573 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:49:27 -0600 Subject: 1000 grit paper All, I notice enco has a 100 pack of 1000 grit silicon carbide paper for $20and change. Has anyone used this? It seems to be to good of a price. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cw@vanion.com Sun Dec 9 09:17:42 2001 fB9FHft23083 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:17:41 -0600 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 08:22:23 -0700 Subject: 60 degree points Does anyone know of a source for Starrett 60* points? Thanks, Chad Does anyone know of a source for= points? Thanks, =Chad from homes-sold@attbi.com Sun Dec 9 09:27:10 2001 fB9FRAt23406 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:27:10 -0600 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Tim,To me the condition/accuracy of the sides of the 60Ÿ point are moreimportant than how sharp the point. The different methods of calibration ofthe DI tells us where depth of the theoretical point is located. So, withreasonable care the 60Ÿ point should last for years.Don ----- Original Message ----- Subject: 60 degree points In all the books and frequently on the list, mention is made that the 60degree point on your depth indicator can be quite fragile and needs to be in good condition inorder to remain accurate. I haven't seen any discussion on the list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. So, how often do most of you replace your points so I can get a feel for how "expendable" 60 degree points are? ThanksTim from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Dec 9 09:57:20 2001 fB9FvJt24007 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:57:19 -0600 (authenticated) Sun, 9 Dec 2001 07:56:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Tip Tops Bill, On some light line rods, I have cut about 1/3 off the tubes of H&H tiptopswith a Dremel tool. There's still plenty of tube to hold tight. I got that Rememberthe otherwise unremarkable 2 weight I had at SRG? It had the shortenedtiptops. I think it looks nice as well. To be honest, it's a lot of work for a very tiny weight saving benefit, soI've just about stopped doing it. I don't remember the numbers, but I triedweighing a standard tiptop versus a shortened one, and decided that itwasn'treally worth the trouble. Shortening them is easy. Grinding them smoothagainand re-coloring the ground ends takes some effort. To answer your question, I haven't tried the Recoil tiptops because thecolor doesn't match the bronze guides I use very well. Harry "Lamberson, William R." wrote: Has anyone tried any other options, using just a singlefoot guide or grinding away part of the tube?? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from homes-sold@attbi.com Sun Dec 9 09:58:12 2001 fB9FwCt24117 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:58:12 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:57:57 +0000 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Tim,I've often thought that it might not be a bad idea to mill the first .010"off the tip of a 60Ÿ point. Sure would make calibration easier, set the DIon a flat surface and set to .010". Of course it would have to be renamed:"60Ÿ blunt" :>)Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: 60 degree points In all the books and frequently on the list, mention is made that the 60degree point on your depth indicator can be quite fragile and needs to be ingood condition inorder to remain accurate. I haven't seen any discussion onthe list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. So, how often do most of you replace your points so I can get a feel for how"expendable" 60 degree points are? ThanksTim from aport@si.rr.com Sun Dec 9 10:19:14 2001 fB9GJDt24923 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:19:13 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:19:07 -0500 Subject: Re: 60 degree points How to save money Tim,The point of the point is pointless!!! (Couldn't help it guys, I'm aninveterate punster)You don't measure ANYthing with the point. As Don says, it's the sides(shoulders) of the tip that matter. Think about when you actually closedyour forms completely and (maybe) involved the actual tip in ameasurement... I bet it never happened. Since the doohickey rests on itssides all the time (when it's in the groove), you shouldn't need another fora looong time. Use trig to set up the "tip" and you can recheck that everynow and then and it'll do the trick.I have a new computer and new e-mail software now, so I can't justforward the original post of this, so here goes.Drill a 1/8"hole in a piece of metal with a GOOD drill; if its pointisn't centered it's not going to give a true 1/8". Heck, it might not be abad ida to put it at the very end of your forms!When the vee of the tip is sitting centered in that hole the point (ifthere WERE an actual exact point) on it would be .108 deep into the hole.(That's from the trigonometry of the equilateral triangle. The altitude isthe sine of 60 degs X a side's length, .125) If you set your point to zerowhile having it sit ON the flat of the forms and it doesn't say ".108" ,your point isn't a true point (Might have been when new, but not any longer:also, be aware that I believe some manufacturers actually "relieve" thepoint by several thou in its construction, so it never WAS a point)Reset the dial to .108 and now you've constructed a virtual point on theend of the tip so when it says "zero" on the flat, it'll be accuraterelative to what your vee is, set to in the forms. That is, when the roundedpoint you have sits on the forms it'll say 000 and when it says .097 in theforms, the .097 will be .097 BELOW the surface of the metal.I can do a trig derivation of this if there's a real demand, but I ain'tagonna do it without somebody whining about it first *G*. It involvesdrawing diagrams on this thing and that ain't no picnic!Don't be afraid to ask questions. Now that I'm retired, I'm studying tobe a curmudgeon, but I can't bite through this thing. It has a firewallnow.*BSEG*Art from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Dec 9 10:25:56 2001 fB9GPtt25508 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:25:55 -0600 fB9GPfW17942; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:25:41 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: 60 degree points Tim,The point on the 60* is only good if it is perfect. It is hard to keep it thatway so I don't use the point tip at all. Set your calipers to .1155. Set thepoint in the .1155 space with the block flat on the caliper jaws, zero thedepth gauge. This will give you accurate readings of the groove depth.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tim Wilhelm wrote: In all the books and frequently on the list, mention is made that the 60degree point on your depth indicator can be quite fragile and needs to be ingood condition inorder to remain accurate. I haven't seen any discussiononthe list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. So, how often do most of you replace your points so I can get a feel forhow"expendable" 60 degree points are? ThanksTim from jteft@frontiernet.net Sun Dec 9 10:26:55 2001 fB9GQtt25696 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:26:55 -0600 sender ) Subject: Paynes Canadian Canoe Rod Has anyone used the Payne Canadian Canoe Rod as a saltwater rod for reds =etc. Am thinking of building it as a 3 piece for use as a light =saltwater rod and steelheading rod. Any comments would be appreciated.Jim T Has anyone used the Payne Canadian Canoe Rod as a= rod for reds etc. Am thinking of building it as a 3 piece for use as a = appreciated.Jim T from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 9 10:45:51 2001 fB9Gjot26314 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:45:50 -0600 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:45:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Tip Tops Once upon a time, I tried the single foot option. This was on a plastic rod,and I just could not get around the way it looked, no matter how hard Itried to convince myself it was lighter. With the extra wrapping thread, andthe epoxy, I was always curious just how much weight it actually saved. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu WilliamR.Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:34 AM Cc: 'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu 'Subject: Tip Tops Has anyone tried the REC Recoil tip tops? They appear to be light weight.I built a rod with a very fine tip recently and it seemed like my standardtip top was pretty heavy. I think Bill Fink uses Fuji tip tops because oftheir light weight. Has anyone tried any other options, usingjust a singlefoot guide or grinding away part of the tube?? Bill Lamberson from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Dec 9 10:49:37 2001 fB9Gnat26584 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:49:36 - Subject: Re: Node Help Kyle - IMHO, you are spending too much time on the node at this stage. Skip the sandpaper, as you will be finishing the surface of the strip later. At the split strip stage, I file about 95% of the hump away, straighten any crooks at the node, and then go to rough planing. After the strip is a triangle, and I have taken a couple full length passes with the plane, I file away any remaining hump. There is often a dip where the cane comes out ofthe node. These are often about an inch long, and keep the surface of the cane from contacting the form. They can be dealt with by heating the center ofthe dip, and bending it downward. This will leave the strip bent down at a severe angle as it exits the node. Heat this area and bend it up. The dip will now be gone, and the strip will lay correctly in the form. I don't press nodes, so using this method results in the minimum material being filed off, which is my goal. When the strip is ready for the final forms, I use a scraper to remove the enamel and smooth the surface. Don't worry about final sandingon the strip until the glue removal stage.. from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sun Dec 9 11:12:42 2001 fB9HCgt27173 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:12:42 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:12:01 -0500 Subject: Re: 60 degree points How to save money Art, I'll respond to your post, although several have made the same sort ofcomments relative to the "point of the point". I understand that we are measuring what is a theoretical bottom of thegroove and as Don has suggested, we could use a blunt point, since ourmeasurements aren't less then .010. The important part of the point is theshoulder which is far more durable than the actual point. As you might havenoted from my reply to Shawn earlier, he has uncovered my dirty littlesecret that I developed a nasty habit, now stopped, of sliding my indicatordown the form. My point currently shows wear on the shoulder of it and Ihave replaced it with a spare I have. Even using good practices and care,though, I would imagine, with time that any point would wear on the shoulderand accuracy ultimately suffer. My original question was directed at what could be considered the usefulllife of a 60 degree point based on normal wear and tear. Some of the responses I have received indicate that if I would use my toolscorrectly, (not likely) I can expect to pass them on one day to mygrandchildren. Won't they be happy! 8^)) As far as calibrating the indicator, I use the method you describe. I havea piece of steel with a 1/8" dia. hole. I drilled it undersize and thenused a 1/8" reamer to attempt to make it more accurate. I also use a testblock that I got from Jeff Wagner. I set to one and verify with the other. Tim from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Dec 9 11:31:14 2001 fB9HVDt27611 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:31:13 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:31:11 +0000 Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? But I am alive ........I think ? Bob Maulucci wrote: A good "Paul is dead" rumour could help. -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:26 AM Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? It looks a bit 'grainy' but I have seen that before in some photosthat tendto bring that out. 4K+! WOW! Time to float those old 'deathbed' rumors....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: How much sanding is okay?Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 21:08:59 -0500 Guys:I am interested in your opinions. Look at the pics for this Howell's rod oneBay. Are there too many fibers showing?http://cgi.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1042410208Just asking respectfully, not making any judgments, just wondering.Bob _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from homes-sold@attbi.com Sun Dec 9 11:56:11 2001 fB9HuAt28173 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:56:10 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:55:55 +0000 Subject: Re: 60 degree points Tim,I like Art's idea of machining a calibration hole in the top of the forms.Even if you would resurface the forms it would still be accurate.Don--- -- Original Message ----- Subject: 60 degree points In all the books and frequently on the list, mention is made that the 60degree point on your depth indicator can be quite fragile and needs to be ingood condition inorder to remain accurate. I haven't seen any discussion onthe list that would give me an idea of how frequently most of you arereplacing your points. I'm sure some of you bought your first and onlypoint from Noah's Shipbuilding and Industrial Supply - no financialinterest. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.) Others, I'm sure, may gothrough several a year. So, how often do most of you replace your points so I can get a feel for how"expendable" 60 degree points are? ThanksTim from cw@vanion.com Sun Dec 9 13:30:38 2001 fB9JUbt02529 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:30:37 -0600 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:35:23 -0700 Subject: Starrett 60* pionts Thanks guys, Got several outlets, and the part #. I'm ib business.Chad Thanks guys, Got several outlets,= #. I'm ib business.Chad from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Dec 9 13:58:07 2001 fB9Jw7t03273 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:58:07 -0600 Subject: Top Guides To the ListFuji tops are half the weight of Perfection types. That's important at =the tips of light rods. Also they have ceramic inserts and last =FOREVER. They do look different. I will never sacrifice performance for =cosmetics. Bill To the List = inserts and last FOREVER. They do look different. I will never sacrifice = from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 9 14:51:09 2001 fB9Kp8t04398 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:51:08 -0600 Subject: RE: How much sanding is okay? Thank goodness. I hope you and Ringo live a very long time. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: How much sanding is okay? But I am alive ........I think ? from pohl@earthlink.net Sun Dec 9 15:05:50 2001 fB9L5nt04881 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:05:49 -0600 id 16DB8q-0001Vz-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 13:05:45 -0800 Subject: rod action after planing? I just finished final planing one of my tips for my 1st rod. the tips arefinal planed and lightly taped together. The rod tipseams very weak and flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it's gluedand built-up? - Thanks, Mark from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 9 15:15:22 2001 fB9LFLt05271 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:15:21 -0600 Subject: List Has the list been down since I haven't seen anything in two days. Againsubscribed in case I got lost in some shuffle. Jack from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Dec 9 15:17:15 2001 fB9LHFt05543 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:17:15 -0600 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:17:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Tip Tops I've used the Recoil tiptops. I think the appearance might surprise you. They aren't like the regular tip tops where the loop is blended nicely into the tube. A loop of titanium wire is crimped into a short length of tube. There is no weight savings at all, since the tube is quite thick walled, and appears to be steel. The tip top looks - well, clunky for want of a better term.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/9/01 6:34:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, LambersonW@missouri.edu writes: Has anyone tried the REC Recoil tip tops? They appear to be light weight.I built a rod with a very fine tip recently and it seemed like my standardtip top was pretty heavy. I think Bill Fink uses Fuji tip tops because oftheir light weight. Has anyone tried any other options, using just a singlefoot guide or grinding away part of the tube?? Bill Lamberson I've used the Recoil tiptops. I think the appearance might surprise you. Theyaren't like the regular tip tops where the loop is blended nicely into the tube.A loop of titanium wire is crimped into a short length of tube. There is noweight savings at all, since the tube is quite thick walled, and appears to besteel. The tip top looks - well, clunky for want of a better term.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/9/01 6:34:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,LambersonW@missouri.edu writes:Has anyone tried the REC Recoil tip I built a rod with a very fine tip recently and it seemed like my standard of singlefoot guide or grinding away part of the tube?? Bill Lamberson from martinrjensen@attbi.com Sun Dec 9 15:34:35 2001 fB9LYYt05974 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:34:34 -0600 ;Sun, 9 Dec 2001 21:34:25 +0000 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e'" Subject: RE: rod action after planing? Organization: wish I had some Yes. You can't tell very much, especially on your first rod, until it isat least glued up. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: rod action after planing? I just finished final planing one of my tips for my 1st rod. the tipsare final planed and lightly taped together. The rod tip seams very weakand flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it's glued and built-up?- Thanks, Mark from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 9 15:34:48 2001 fB9LYlt05988 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:34:48 -0600 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e'" Subject: RE: rod action after planing? Yes, it will stiffen considerably. I think everyone worries about this samething on the first rod.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: rod action after planing? I just finished final planing one of my tips for my 1st rod. the tips arefinal planed and lightly taped together. The rod tipseams very weak and flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it's gluedand built-up? - Thanks, Mark from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Sun Dec 9 16:01:42 2001 fB9M1ft06878 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:01:41 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:01:36 -0800 Sun, 09 Dec 2001 22:01:35 GMT Subject: Tilly Hats FILETIME=[120DF3B0:01C180FD] Guys from lkoeser@ceva.net Sun Dec 9 16:09:19 2001 fB9M9Jt07140 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:09:19 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:03:37 -0500 ,"'Tim Wilhelm '" Subject: Re: Tip Tops I use the REC recoil with good success. They are considerably lighter thanstandard ones. I think you will be pleased.Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tip Tops Has anyone tried the REC Recoil tip tops? They appear to be light weight.I built a rod with a very fine tip recently and it seemed like my standardtip top was pretty heavy. I think Bill Fink uses Fuji tip tops because oftheir light weight. Has anyone tried any other options, using just a single foot guide or grinding away part of the tube?? Bill Lamberson from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 9 16:11:18 2001 fB9MBHt07434 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:11:17 -0600 helo=default) id 16DCAC-00006n-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 17:11:12 -0500 Subject: Re: rod action after planing? Yep. I think it a common affliction. Surely there must be a name for thiscondition -- perhaps, "Flaccid Flexion Vexation Syndrome", more commonlyreferred to as "Limp noodle depression"? M-D Yes, it will stiffen considerably. I think everyone worries about this same thing on the first rod.Bob Pohl I just finished final planing one of my tips for my 1st rod. the tips arefinal planed and lightly taped together. The rod tipseams very weak and flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it's gluedand built-up? - Thanks, Mark from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 9 16:15:26 2001 fB9MFPt07788 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:15:26 -0600 helo=default) id 16DCEG-0006RF-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 17:15:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Tip Tops Can't disagree regarding the appearance, but I'm certain the tubing is =titanium, with an overall resulting weight savings, no matter how small. M-D I've used the Recoil tiptops. I think the appearance might surprise =you. They aren't like the regular tip tops where the loop is blended =nicely into the tube. A loop of titanium wire is crimped into a short =length of tube. There is no weight savings at all, since the tube is =quite thick walled, and appears to be steel. The tip top looks - well, =clunky for want of a better term.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/9/01 6:34:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, =LambersonW@missouri.edu writes: Has anyone tried the REC Recoil tip tops? They appear to be light =weight.I built a rod with a very fine tip recently and it seemed like my =standardtip top was pretty heavy. I think Bill Fink uses Fuji tip tops =because oftheir light weight. Has anyone tried any other options, using just =a singlefoot guide or grinding away part of the tube?? Bill Lamberson Can't disagreeregarding = small. M-D DNHayashida@aol.com I've used = tiptops. I think the appearance might surprise you. They aren't like = regular tip tops where the loop is blended nicely into the tube. A = titanium wire is crimped into a short length of tube. There is no = savings at all, since the tube is quite thick walled, and appears to = HayashidaIn a message dated 12/9/01 6:34:35 AM Pacific = LambersonW@missouri.edu writes: be light weight.I built a rod with a very fine tip recently and = any other options, using just a singlefoot guide or grinding = of the tube??BillLamberson from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 9 16:25:03 2001 fB9MP2t08132 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:25:02 -0600 helo=default) id 16DCNZ-0003wR-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 17:25:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Tilly Hats How about www.tilley.com ? M-D GuysDoes anyone know if Tilly Endurables has a web site? Jim M-D Bureau Guys = Jim from pohl@earthlink.net Sun Dec 9 16:28:53 2001 fB9MSqt08371 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:28:52 -0600 id 16DCRG-0004Je-00; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 14:28:50 -0800 Subject: Re: rod action after planing? "Limp noodle depression" seams to fit it well... Mark ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod action after planing? Yep. I think it a common affliction. Surely there must be a name for thiscondition -- perhaps, "Flaccid Flexion Vexation Syndrome", more commonlyreferred to as "Limp noodle depression"? M-D From: "Bob Maulucci" Yes, it will stiffen considerably. I think everyone worries about this same thing on the first rod.Bob Pohl I just finished final planing one of my tips for my 1st rod. the tips are final planed and lightly taped together. The rod tipseams very weak and flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it's glued and built-up? - Thanks, Mark from channer@frontier.net Sun Dec 9 17:05:23 2001 fB9N5Nt09353 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:05:23 -0600 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:19:09 -0700 Subject: Re: 60 degree points How to save money I'm afraid that, after 6 years of hash and rehash on this subject, Istill don't see the reason for all the fuss. Set your forms, plane yourfirst strip, measure it where the form adjustments are, if not the same,reset the form accordingly. If you zero the depth guage on whatever flatsuface is handy, such as the top of the form, even if the point isround, flat or whatever, the strip will never be smaller than theintended dimension and a few thousands change in the form will be thesame no matter what shape the end of the tip. Oh, well, I've tried andthat's all I can do, choose your own paths to terminal retention, LOL.John Tim Wilhelm wrote As far as calibrating the indicator, I use the method you describe. I havea piece of steel with a 1/8" dia. hole. I drilled it undersize and thenused a 1/8" reamer to attempt to make it more accurate. I also use atestblock that I got from Jeff Wagner. I set to one and verify with the other. Tim from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Dec 9 17:28:50 2001 fB9NSot09925 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:28:50 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Tilly Hats Hey, That's interesting, I just saw a review of their products on =Outdoor Life network last night. Sorry, Didn't catch the contact info. =Try Bob Marriot's. They have just about everything. Randall G. NW AR. Subject: Tilly Hats GuysDoes anyone know if Tilly Endurables has a web site? Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Hey, That's interesting, I just saw a = their products on Outdoor Life network last night. Sorry, Didn't catch = G. NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Bureau Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001= PMSubject: Tilly Hats Guys = Jim Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Dec 9 17:35:09 2001 fB9NZ8t10306 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:35:08 -0600 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:34:58 -0500 Subject: Orvis Rods For Sale Hi Guys, I thought I had put this on the list about a week ago, but I don't think it made it on there. I will post it again. If it was onlast week, I'm sorry for sending it again. I had a guy come in my shop with two Orvis rods that hewould like to sell. They belonged to his father. I will give you theinfo on them and anyone that may be interested can contact me off list and I will give you his name and phone # and e-mail address The first rod is an Orvis Battenkill, Ser. # 983 made by WesJorden in 1960. Seven and 1/2 foot, 6wt. 3 7/8oz. The butt section was refinished by Orvis on 11/26/90 . He had gotten some DEET from his hans on the rod and it did a job on the varnish. Hasoriginal tube and bag and lables, with reciept from Orvis onrefinishing the butt section. Also comes with an Orvis Madisonreel with line. The rod is in excellent cond. with two tips. The other rod is an Orvis Battenkill cane spinning rod. Twopiece with one tip. The rod is all original and in very good cond.Ser. # 14249 made in 1991. It is 7ft. 6in. I'm not looking to make anything off these rods, just trying to help the guy out. Thanks, Dave LeClair http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sun Dec 9 19:35:36 2001 fBA1ZZt12304 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:35:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Howell Rod Are those wraps nylon? Doesn't look like silk to me. Jim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Howell Rod I do like the stripping guide. Don't care for the wraps on the ferrule.Are there stripping guides like this available today? Regards, Steve from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 9 19:59:22 2001 fBA1xLt12940 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:59:21 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Howell Rod The Howells rod I had last year was wrapped with nylon, and I think theywere all nylon wrapped, but not positve. Later,Bob Are those wraps nylon? Doesn't look like silk to me. Jim from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 9 20:11:57 2001 fBA2But13415 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:11:56 -0600 ,"Rodmakers" Subject: RE: Howell Rod, now nylon You can all shoot me for saying this, but nylon is not so bad. I used somegreen Gudebrod on a spinning rod this summer, and I liked it so much, I haveused it on several of the rods I have made for myself since. It looks nicewith spar over it; it's a good, translucent, dark green.Target in waiting,Bob Maulucci -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Howell Rod The Howells rod I had last year was wrapped with nylon, and I think theywere all nylon wrapped, but not positve. Later,Bob Are those wraps nylon? Doesn't look like silk to me. Jim from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 9 20:14:25 2001 fBA2EOt13731 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:14:25 -0600 helo=default) id 16DFxX-0000D8-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 21:14:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Howell Rod That would be the rod you lost your butt on, huh, Bob? ;o) rod, as new, for the low, low price of $ 3,800.00. Beats the heck out of therecent eBay auction price. M-D The Howells rod I had last year was wrapped with nylon, and I think theywere all nylon wrapped, but not positve. Later,Bob Are those wraps nylon? Doesn't look like silk to me. Jim from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 9 20:22:37 2001 fBA2MZt14145 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:22:35 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:23:32 -0400 Organization: New Scotland fly Rods Subject: Re: rod action after planing? --------------E8858790FE4B4CFAA7181014 --------------4E63AC2AFE959A41F74C5884 YES Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I just finished final planing one of my tips for my 1st rod. the tips arefinal planed and lightly taped together. The rod tipseams very weak and flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it's gluedand built-up? - Thanks, Mark --------------4E63AC2AFE959A41F74C5884 YESMark & Kathy Pohl wrote:I just finished final planing one of my tips formy 1st rod. the tips arefinal planed and lightly taped together. The rod tipseams very weak and flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it'sgluedand built-up? - Thanks, Mark --------------4E63AC2AFE959A41F74C5884-- --------------E8858790FE4B4CFAA7181014 name="bamboorules.vcf" filename="bamboorules.vcf" begin:vcard n:Pineo;Shawn url:http://nsflyrods.tripod.caorg:New Scotland Fly Rodsversion:2.1title:Owner / Rod Craftsmanadr;quoted-printable:;;20 Melrose Cr.,=0D=0A;Eastern Passage ;NovaScotia;B3G 1N6;Canadafn:Shawn Pineoend:vcard --------------E8858790FE4B4CFAA7181014-- from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Dec 9 20:25:38 2001 fBA2Pbt14434 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:25:37 -0600 Sun, 9 Dec 2001 22:26:32 -0400 Organization: New Scotland fly Rods Subject: Re: List --------------CDCA02F85C3F1E86F30DBA64 Jack,same thing happened to me,Shawn Jacques Follweiler wrote: Has the list been down since I haven't seen anything in two days. Againsubscribed in case I got lost in some shuffle. Jack --------------CDCA02F85C3F1E86F30DBA64 name="bamboorules.vcf" filename="bamboorules.vcf" begin:vcard n:Pineo;Shawn url:http://nsflyrods.tripod.caorg:New Scotland Fly Rodsversion:2.1title:Owner / Rod Craftsmanadr;quoted-printable:;;20 Melrose Cr.,=0D=0A;Eastern Passage ;NovaScotia;B3G 1N6;Canadafn:Shawn Pineoend:vcard --------------CDCA02F85C3F1E86F30DBA64-- from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 9 20:30:22 2001 fBA2UMt14743 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:30:22 -0600 helo=default) id 16DGCy-0001oA-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 21:30:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Howell Rod, now nylon Heresy! Mr. Worf, arm photon torpedoes! guy'ca' petaQ ("Filthy petaQ" for all you non-Klingon speaking persons.) M-D You can all shoot me for saying this, but nylon is not so bad. I used = some green Gudebrod on a spinning rod this summer, and I liked it so much, = I have used it on several of the rods I have made for myself since. It looks = nice with spar over it; it's a good, translucent, dark green.Target in waiting,Bob Maulucci Heresy! Mr. Worf, arm= torpedoes! guy'ca'petaQ =("Filthy petaQ" for all you non-Klingon = persons.) M-D all = from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 9 20:33:20 2001 fBA2XKt15012 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:33:20 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Howell Rod Yep, M-D, that would be the one *S* Did OK, but looks like I should haveheld onto it for a year or so, huh! Only $3800???? For a 7 1/2' for a 4??? Hey, after that one I had andlooking at recent sales of howells rods, that COULD be an investment! Bob (sells stuff to early) That would be the rod you lost your butt on, huh, Bob? ;o) Howell rod, as new, for the low, low price of $ 3,800.00. Beats the heck out of the recent eBay auction price. M-D From: "Bob Nunley" The Howells rod I had last year was wrapped with nylon, and I think theywere all nylon wrapped, but not positve. Later,Bob Are those wraps nylon? Doesn't look like silk to me. Jim from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 01:08:27 2001 fBA78Qt20150 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:08:26 -0600 Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:08:25 PST Subject: Re: Howell Rod I have a Phillipson that he refinished as a favor fora friend of mine and he used nylon thread on that rodas well. I'm not entirely sure I understand where this threadis going (no pun intended). I have to say that 95% ofthe fly fisherman I know never seem to notice suchthings as how the rod is wrapped, sanded nodes,powerfibers and so on. All they are interested in ishow well it casts and Gary Howell's rods castextreamly well. This is not to say that we don'taspire to different maybe even higher standards today.Still, I belive it's best not to judge a book by it'scover. Regards,Chris M-D From: "Bob Nunley" The Howells rod I had last year was wrapped with nylon, and I think they were all nylon wrapped, but not positve. Later,Bob Are those wraps nylon? Doesn't look like silk to me. Jim __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Dec 10 04:25:16 2001 fBAAPEt22066 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:25:14 - fBAAP4P51229; Subject: Re: 60 degree points I am amazed that they wear as quickly as they do. I have all the bad habits(sliding, thumping, gouging) and spent a lot of time criticising my forms Then I learned the .1155 thingy with the calipers (learned from the list, ofcourse), and while I still replace about twice a year, it's amazing how muchmy forms seem to have improved [:-) ]. I guess that using this method ofzeroing the indicator the integrity of the actual point is less critical tothe setting. Now if I can only stop that habit of sliding the bloody thing! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Dec 10 04:36:49 2001 fBAAalt22401 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 04:36:48 - fBAAafq53526; Subject: Re: rod action after planing? Mark What you can deduce from the final-planed strips, lightly taped together, isthat the final-planed strips have been lightly taped together. Peter from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 10 05:11:51 2001 fBABBot23826 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:11:50 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 0.779202 secs); 10 Dec 200111:11:49 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: 60 degree points How to save money EXACTLY! Marty channer wrote: I'm afraid that, after 6 years of hash and rehash on this subject, Istill don't see the reason for all the fuss. Set your forms, plane yourfirst strip, measure it where the form adjustments are, if not the same,reset the form accordingly. If you zero the depth guage on whatever flatsuface is handy, such as the top of the form, even if the point isround, flat or whatever, the strip will never be smaller than theintended dimension and a few thousands change in the form will be thesame no matter what shape the end of the tip. Oh, well, I've tried andthat's all I can do, choose your own paths to terminal retention, LOL.John Tim Wilhelm wrote: As far as calibrating the indicator, I use the method you describe. I havea piece of steel with a 1/8" dia. hole. I drilled it undersize and thenused a 1/8" reamer to attempt to make it more accurate. I also use atestblock that I got from Jeff Wagner. I set to one and verify with the other. Tim from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 10 05:16:49 2001 fBABGmt24065 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:16:49 - v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 0.589443 secs); 10 Dec 200111:16:48 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Howell Rod Bob, I believe you are correct. Gary learned the craft from the Winston RodCo. having had worked there.The San Fransisco Winstons are wrapped inNylon.At least the later ones. Still in all it holds the guides just fine. Best,Marty Bob Nunley wrote: The Howells rod I had last year was wrapped with nylon, and I think theywere all nylon wrapped, but not positve. Later,Bob Are those wraps nylon? Doesn't look like silk to me. Jim from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Dec 10 06:12:19 2001 fBACCIt24735 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 06:12:18 - HAA11276; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: linishing before splitting... After reading about "linishing" and splitting (again) last week, I waswondering why I haven't seen a discussion of filing the nodes BEFOREsplitting the culm? The direction of the power fibers at a node looksrather random. Since the direction of a split along along the entireculm is aided/determined by the direction of the power fibers, would therandomness of the fibers precisely at the node, perhaps, send the splitat a node off course? I understand it would only remove part of therandomness, but would the "every little bit helps" model apply here? I built a North Carolina redneck "linisher" this weekend (duct-taped mybelt sander to the garage floor) and smoothed the nodes before splittingon a culm. I only took it to ~3/8" as I was splitting for a buttsection, but it sure seemed to split straighter with less effort... Thoughts? dws. from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Dec 10 07:22:45 2001 fBADMit25416 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:22:44 - Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... I'm a big believer in "pre-linishing" my culms. John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: linishing before splitting... After reading about "linishing" and splitting (again) last week, I waswondering why I haven't seen a discussion of filing the nodes BEFOREsplitting the culm? The direction of the power fibers at a node looksrather random. Since the direction of a split along along the entireculm is aided/determined by the direction of the power fibers, would therandomness of the fibers precisely at the node, perhaps, send the splitat a node off course? I understand it would only remove part of therandomness, but would the "every little bit helps" model apply here? I built a North Carolina redneck "linisher" this weekend (duct-taped mybelt sander to the garage floor) and smoothed the nodes before splittingon a culm. I only took it to ~3/8" as I was splitting for a buttsection, but it sure seemed to split straighter with less effort... Thoughts? dws. from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 10 07:37:59 2001 fBADbwt25906 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:37:58 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:37:53 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... FILETIME=[DE2EE710:01C1817F] John,It's been my experience filing the nodes makes splitting noticeably easie=r. The only drawback is you might be taking extra time filing some nodes=that might be trimmed off later when you do your node staggering. Other=wise, splitting is easier after filing. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... I'm a big believer in "pre-linishing" my culms. John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: linishing before splitting... After reading about "linishing" and splitting (again) last week, I waswondering why I haven't seen a discussion of filing the nodes BEFOREsplitting the culm? The direction of the power fibers at a node looksrather random. Since the direction of a split along along the entireculm is aided/determined by the direction of the power fibers, would th= e randomness of the fibers precisely at the node, perhaps, send the splitat a node off course? I understand it would only remove part of therandomness, but would the "every little bit helps" model apply here? I built a North Carolina redneck "linisher" this weekend (duct-taped mybelt sander to the garage floor) and smoothed the nodes before splittin= g on a culm. I only took it to ~3/8" as I was splitting for a buttsection, but it sure seemed to split straighter with less effort... Thoughts? dws. Kenealy=Sent: Monday, December10, = earsdws@duk=e.edu; Rodmakers Subject:Re= <rodmake= AMSub= from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 10 07:45:20 2001 fBADjJt26227 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:45:19 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 05:45:10 -0800 Subject: Re: 60 degree points How to save money FILETIME=[E2B05B10:01C18180] Tim,I have no experience trying it, but Bill Waara once told me that if want =to drill accurate holes, use three-fluted drills. John ----- > Tim Wilhelm wrote: As far as calibrating the indicator, I use the method you describe. = I have a piece of steel with a 1/8" dia. hole. I drilled it undersize and t= hen used a 1/8" reamer to attempt to make it more accurate. I also use a= test block that I got from Jeff Wagner. I set to one and verify with the = other. Tim f want to drill accurate holes, use three-fluted drills.  = c= more= from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Dec 10 08:41:21 2001 fBAEfKt27781 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:41:20 - Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... I thought that everyone linished the cul first and then split. I linish theoutside, split in half and knock out dams, then linish inside beforecontinueing to split. This is important to get really good splits as youget down to final splitting. At this is how it works best for me!!! I havetried other ways with less success. John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... It seemed so intuitive and helpful, why is there never a discussion of this? John Kenealy wrote: I'm a big believer in "pre-linishing" my culms. John K----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:11 AMSubject: linishing before splitting... After reading about "linishing" and splitting (again) last week, I waswondering why I haven't seen a discussion of filing the nodes BEFOREsplitting the culm? The direction of the power fibers at a node looksrather random. Since the direction of a split along along the entireculm is aided/determined by the direction of the power fibers, would the randomness of the fibers precisely at the node, perhaps, send the split at a node off course? I understand it would only remove part of therandomness, but would the "every little bit helps" model apply here? I built a North Carolina redneck "linisher" this weekend (duct-taped my belt sander to the garage floor) and smoothed the nodes before splitting on a culm. I only took it to ~3/8" as I was splitting for a buttsection, but it sure seemed to split straighter with less effort... Thoughts? dws. from papa474849@yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 08:42:45 2001 fBAEgit27974 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:42:44 - 10 Dec 2001 06:42:43 PST Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... I have a related question. I'm splitting my first culmand am getting some weird strips. The enamel side ofthe strip appears to be splitting pretty evenly, about3/8". Yet somewhere along the line, the split startsto walk toward the middle of the strip, making a taperin the pith side. I've been using a froe and I alsotried the Bob Nunley hand-splitting method. I get asimilar result either way. Any advice appreciated.Thanks,/paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 10 08:49:13 2001 fBAEnDt28536 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:49:13 -0600 helo=default) id 16DRk0-0006zu-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:49:12 -0500 Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... In the beginning I would file the nodes, but then it occurred to me that theupright belt sander would make much shorter work of it, so I put a 1" belt,120 grit, on the 2" upright belt sander, a source of illumination on theunderside of the table so as to be able to see what I was doing against thebelt, and started removing the majority in this fashion. It does makesplitting easier, both in terms of the effort required and keeping the split from wandering through the node. I also hog out the dams on the inside ofthe split culm "halves". This helps, too. A Redneck Linisher, huh? Cool! You're pretty bright, David -- especially fora guy doing cutting edge research on cochlear implants. ;o) M-D After reading about "linishing" and splitting (again) last week, I waswondering why I haven't seen a discussion of filing the nodes BEFOREsplitting the culm? The direction of the power fibers at a node looksrather random. Since the direction of a split along along the entireculm is aided/determined by the direction of the power fibers, would therandomness of the fibers precisely at the node, perhaps, send the splitat a node off course? I understand it would only remove part of therandomness, but would the "every little bit helps" model apply here? I built a North Carolina redneck "linisher" this weekend (duct-taped mybelt sander to the garage floor) and smoothed the nodes before splittingon a culm. I only took it to ~3/8" as I was splitting for a buttsection, but it sure seemed to split straighter with less effort... Thoughts? dws. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 10 08:58:40 2001 fBAEwdt29094 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:58:39 - Subject: Re: Howell Rod Didn't Dickerson use nylon too? http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 10 09:16:32 2001 fBAFGWt00144 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:16:32 -0600 helo=default) id 16DSAQ-0001eA-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:16:31 -0500 Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... Sounds as though you are allowing the culm to rotate about the knife blade,or to look at it another way, the knife blade is angled in relation to theculm. Can't help you with what you're doing wrong on the hand- splittingmethod. BTW, Nunley suggested we name this hand-splitting method after PeterMcKean,who further embellished upon it in his typically ornate way. Thus, themethod was subsequently called, "Peter McKean's Procedure for theMachinations and Manipulations of Bamboo that we might have enhancedpiscatorial pleasures and increased enjoyment of time spent astream, or Howto rend bamboo utterly useful with your bare hands", abbreviated to "Peter'sProcedure". Since Peter is also known as Oosic the Vanquisher, the methodmight be called "The Ooosic Method". M-D I have a related question. I'm splitting my first culmand am getting some weird strips. The enamel side ofthe strip appears to be splitting pretty evenly, about3/8". Yet somewhere along the line, the split startsto walk toward the middle of the strip, making a taperin the pith side. I've been using a froe and I alsotried the Bob Nunley hand-splitting method. I get asimilar result either way. Any advice appreciated.Thanks,/paul from jbbamboo47@yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 09:47:52 2001 fBAFlqt01693 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:47:52 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:47:51 PST Subject: tapers in the taper archive garrison 201e is listed as a 5wtand 202e as a 4wt. is that reversed? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Dec 10 09:49:16 2001 fBAFnFt01887 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:49:15 - for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:49:08 - Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: Nylon Wraps To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers (i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my first quality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing any discussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have a beautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made of pre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a few years later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they were selling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." The wraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledge have to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers used silk in the years before nylon was readily available, but even then most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threads that are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of very fine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism of either new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personally prefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than is currently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon where appropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Dec 10 10:38:56 2001 fBAGctt04610 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:38:55 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:38:50 -0800 Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:38:49 GMT Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps FILETIME=[2573CCD0:01C18199] the current trend toward very fine thread is just that. the standard for trout rods was A to 2/0. The silk thread thing was a point of wonder for John Weir in the 80's. He just said 'why?' He used Gudebrod 2/0 nylon on his rods. The old Gudebrod 2/0 was a 3 ply thread just like the A was . The newer stuff was just A with one of the plys taken out and didn't wrap smooth like the old stuff did. Most of my earlier rods are wrapped in the nylon I bought from John. Now trying to sell a rod wrapped with nylon draws a gasp at your lack of couth and diminished sense of propriety. Still sometimes wonder why I don't go back to the nylon, still have 4 or 5 of those giant cones left. Everyone knows I have no sense of style anyway. As a BTW John was always amazed at the need to use NS for the Rs hardware. He thought it was too heavy, aluminum worked better , was lighter, and was readily available. Like most of the past generation, he just built fishing rods.A.J. From: "Terry Finger" Subject: Nylon WrapsDate: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:50:51 +0000 To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers (i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from thogan@rochester.rr.com Mon Dec 10 11:14:16 2001 fBAHEFt07876 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:14:15 - fBAHEC915550 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:14:14 - Subject: Warming the dip tube List -I would like to warm my varnish in my dip tube prior to dipping. I have a 2 "PVC tube I use for by dip tube. Any suggestions? RegardsTaylor from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Mon Dec 10 11:16:22 2001 fBAHGLt08482 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:16:21 - fBAHGG002129 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:16:16 - Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps I believe that when thread is burned with a match; nylon metls and forms a ball, but silk makes an ash. I have found that many threads factory-labeled "silk" will not pass that test. Furthermore, are we sure we can always tell silk from nylon by sight after it has been preserved and varnished? -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Dec 10 11:56:22 2001 fBAHuLt15356 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:56:22 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA28558; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:56:18 - ETAtAhRttJQHessogEhd+C5R+WbaGEnYpQIVAMPVypvECMqxBTnOgN/MhAVkJJmI Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube 10 Dec 2001 12:12:19 -0500 Taylor - I have tried every concievable elec. strip heater arrangement.None of them worked. No way to run a thermostat. I use 1 1/4" coppertube with 2" reducers at the top. Have six of those loaded withdifferent varnishes. I also build boats so I had plenty of epoxyavailable. Tubes were cleaned with coarse steel wool then coated, onthe inside with 1/2 cup of epoxy. Found an unused elec. ceramic dishheater and built a 5 ft. long, 6" PVC tube mounted on a 2 X 8. Drilleda hole in the cap so the tube just goes down the center. Before I startdipping I run the heat and the fan that is mounted at the bottom of thetube, with a cutout in the pipe. Have a HIVAC thermometer in the cap.I use 85 degrees. It only takes 10 mins. to stabilize the temp. Runthe heater for a few mins. every half hour or so. Surprizing how itholds the heat. Have checked the temp of the varnish in the dip tubeand it is the same as the exterior of the dip tube. This is the bestarrangement that I have found. Regards, Jerry Young from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Dec 10 11:56:57 2001 fBAHuut15549 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:56:56 - for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:56:36 - 1210125635; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:56:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps If nylon is used, should the thread that has been pre-treated with colorpreserver be used, or should the non-treated thread be used? What about colors? I have only seen a handful of bamboo rods and all thewraps have been brown. What about dark green, black, crimson, or yellow:would using any of these colors on bamboo be a faux pas in the eyes of atraditionalist? (I'm not one to opt for tradition over my personal preference,I just want to know the difference...) Kyle In a message dated Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:39:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Allen Thramer" writes: the current trend toward very fine thread is just that. the standard for trout rods was A to 2/0. The silk thread thing was a point of wonder for John Weir in the 80's. He just said 'why?' He used Gudebrod 2/0 nylon on his rods. The old Gudebrod 2/0 was a 3 ply thread just like the A was . The newer stuff was just A with one of the plys taken out and didn't wrapsmooth like the old stuff did. Most of my earlier rods are wrapped in the nylon I bought from John. Now trying to sell a rod wrapped with nylon draws a gasp at your lack of couth and diminished sense of propriety. Still sometimes wonder why I don't go back to the nylon, still have 4 or 5 of those giant cones left. Everyone knows I have no sense of style anyway. As a BTWJohn was always amazed at the need to use NS for the Rs hardware. He thoughtit was too heavy, aluminum worked better , was lighter, and was readily available. Like most of the past generation, he just built fishing rods.A.J. From: "Terry Finger" Subject: Nylon WrapsDate: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:50:51 +0000 To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers (i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 10 12:38:07 2001 fBAIc6t19117 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:38:06 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:38:01 -0800 Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube FILETIME=[CBCB29B0:01C181A9] Taylor,Try using electric heat trace cable spiral wrapped around the tube. It i=s available in a variety of lengths. You will have to defeat the thermos=tat which is enclosed in a clear plastic pouch. All you have to do is sl=it the pouch and solder a jumper wire across the contacts because the "ON=" temp is 32 deg. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Warming the dip tube List -I would like to warm my varnish in my dip tube prior to dipping.I have a 2 "PVC tube I use for by dip tube.Any suggestions? RegardsTaylor Taylor, =Try using electric heat trace cable spiral wrapped around the tube.&= you have to do is slit the pouch and solder a jumper wire across the cont= john&n= List -I would like to warm my varnish in my dip tube prior to d=ipping.I have a 2 "PVC tube I use for by dip tube.Any suggestions=?RegardsTaylor from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 13:03:47 2001 fBAJ3kt20383 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:03:46 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:03:43 PST Subject: Re: tapers I consider both the 201e and the 202e to be best witha 4 wt. line, but I think the 5 wt. reference in thetaper archive was used to demonstrate the stressvalues for that taper with that particular line at aparticular distance. I don't think it was meant toimply it was the best line overall for that rod. Icould be wrong, that's just the way I took it. Chris McDowell --- james bailey wrote: in the taper archive garrison 201e is listed as a5wtand 202e as a 4wt. is that reversed? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 10 13:37:02 2001 fBAJb1t22046 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:37:01 - ;Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:36:51 +0000 ,, "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Howell Rod, now nylon In support of Bob's use of nylon, I also use nothing but Gudebrod nylon foryears and have been very happy with the product. Jack from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Dec 10 13:43:45 2001 fBAJhht22569 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:43:43 - for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:43:02 - Subject: Re: Tip Tops You could be right, but the way the tube was crimped and I used a file on it to see if it could be filed easily leads me to think it was steel.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/9/01 2:16:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, jojo@ipa.netwrites: Can't disagree regarding the appearance, but I'm certain the tubing is titanium, with an overall resulting weight savings, no matter how small.M-D You could be right, but the way the tube was crimped and I used a file on it tosee if it could be filed easily leads me to think it was steel.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/9/01 2:16:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, jojo@ipa.netwrites:Can't disagree regarding theappearance, but I'm certain the tubing is titanium, with an overall resultingweight savings, no matter how small. M-D from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Dec 10 14:01:42 2001 fBAK1gt23649 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:01:42 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:01:33 -0800 Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:01:33 GMT Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube FILETIME=[7768DFF0:01C181B5] Taylor: remove the dip tube from the ground and put it in a warm place severalhours before you dip the rod. I take my dip tube out from my basement floorthe night before I'm planning on dipping and stand it next to my 4 ftflourescent light, which is inside of my dip tank. By removing the dip tube andwarming it next to the light each time I dip, I feel it gives me moreconsistency then if I'd of left it in the ground where the temperaturechanges from season to season. Also, varnish shouldn't be applied attemperature's below 50 degree's, according to PPG. The varnish at about 70 dipping. Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com from harms1@pa.net Mon Dec 10 14:14:37 2001 fBAKEZt24525 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:14:35 - Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Terry, I wouldn't know about the historical record on silk wraps. All one hearsabout is silk (it's almost synonymous with "wraps"), and yet I wouldn'tdoubt that a great many rods by "the masters" were wrapped in nylon. Itused to be possible to obtain nylon in #3/0 and finer, and I still havesome, and I still use it from time to time. I am almost ashamed to admit that I've wrapped some of my rods in nylon-- thesnob-appeal of silk is so pervasive. Among Dante's rings in the Inferno,current rod-makers seem to reserve the severest punishment for those whowould deign to violate our covenant with silk. Indeed, fishing withgraphite is but a minor barbarism, compared to the cardinal sin of wrappingwith nylon. This is a pretty silly business, folks. Silk is very, very nice indeed, butif you can find fine nylon, there's nothing wrong with using it. In fact, Ireally do wonder how many builders among us could actually tell thedifference. Those who swear they can, often can't. Fire away!Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Nylon Wraps To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers(i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from harms1@pa.net Mon Dec 10 14:18:59 2001 fBAKIwt24897 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:18:58 - Subject: Re: rod action after planing? Mark, Once you have glued those six, flimsy wisps together, you will have exactlythe tip- section you were hoping for. There's no comparison between the sixstrips unglued, as against glued. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod action after planing? YES Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I just finished final planing one of my tips for my 1st rod. the tips are final planed and lightly taped together. The rod tipseams very weak and flimsey. Will the rod tip get stiffer once it's glued and built-up? - Thanks, Mark from harms1@pa.net Mon Dec 10 14:34:07 2001 fBAKY5t25663 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:34:05 - Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Kyle, Use thread without color-preserver. You can apply two or three initialcoats of ordinary "airplane dope" to the wraps (prior to finishing up withvarnish), if you want to preserve the. Or, if you want the color to deepen,apply varnish right from the start. There will be a remarkable differencein the finished wraps. Of course, this goes for silk too. As to color, you can use just about anything (except, that is, for anythingblue). Earth-tones seem to look best, but many excellent rods have beenwrapped with brighter hues of green, olive, red and yellow. The Leonard"red-wrap," of course, became famous (though that may have had somethingtodo with the rods themselves). If you don't wish to be dictated bytradition, then by all means, please yourself. Wayne Cattenach built apurple cane rod for his daughter, and I gather, everyone was delighted. Besides, if one day, you want to change the color of your wraps, it's no bigdeal. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps If nylon is used, should the thread that has been pre-treated with color preserver be used, or should the non-treated thread be used? What about colors? I have only seen a handful of bamboo rods and all the wraps have been brown. What about dark green, black, crimson, or yellow:would using any of these colors on bamboo be a faux pas in the eyes of atraditionalist? (I'm not one to opt for tradition over my personalpreference, I just want to know the difference...) Kyle In a message dated Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:39:57 AM Eastern StandardTime, "Allen Thramer" writes: the current trend toward very fine thread is just that. the standard fortrout rods was A to 2/0. The silk thread thing was a point of wonder forJohn Weir in the 80's. He just said 'why?' He used Gudebrod 2/0 nylon on his rods. The old Gudebrod 2/0 was a 3 ply thread just like the A was . Thenewer stuff was just A with one of the plys taken out and didn't wrap smooth like the old stuff did. Most of my earlier rods are wrapped in the nylon I bought from John. Now trying to sell a rod wrapped with nylon draws a gasp at your lack of couth and diminished sense of propriety. Still sometimeswonder why I don't go back to the nylon, still have 4 or 5 of those giant cones left. Everyone knows I have no sense of style anyway. As a BTW John was always amazed at the need to use NS for the Rs hardware. Hethought it was too heavy, aluminum worked better , was lighter, and was readilyavailable. Like most of the past generation, he just built fishing rods.A.J. From: "Terry Finger" Subject: Nylon WrapsDate: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:50:51 +0000 To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers (i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 10 14:36:44 2001 fBAKaht25960 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:36:43 - Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube I use my heat gun without the flaring tool. Move it up and down the tubeabout an inch away while turning the tube a quarter turn every twopasses. When the tube starts to feel consistently warm to my hand I putit in the cabinet and dip away. It takes about 18 passes with the heatgun. Not very scientific but I have had good results with dipping. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO taylor hogan wrote: List -I would like to warm my varnish in my dip tube prior to dipping.I have a 2 "PVC tube I use for by dip tube.Any suggestions? RegardsTaylor from harms1@pa.net Mon Dec 10 14:59:48 2001 fBAKxlt27237 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:59:48 - Subject: Re: linishing before splitting... dws, I always do some initial preparation on the nodes when splitting.I've found that the splitting runs much more "true" when the nodes arereduced in size both inside and out. After I get my initial six strips froma culm, I whack away at the pithy dams. Next, I hold the outer nodes ofeach strip against a large dia. drum sander--but only enough to remove theridges. Then I'm ready to split the narrower strips. I continue leveling both thedams and the outer nodes (only if needed) as I split finer and finer. Itall has to be done sooner or later anyway, so I figure I might as well tryto help myself by preparing the nodes as I split. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: linishing before splitting... After reading about "linishing" and splitting (again) last week, I waswondering why I haven't seen a discussion of filing the nodes BEFOREsplitting the culm? The direction of the power fibers at a node looksrather random. Since the direction of a split along along the entireculm is aided/determined by the direction of the power fibers, would therandomness of the fibers precisely at the node, perhaps, send the splitat a node off course? I understand it would only remove part of therandomness, but would the "every little bit helps" model apply here? I built a North Carolina redneck "linisher" this weekend (duct-taped mybelt sander to the garage floor) and smoothed the nodes before splittingon a culm. I only took it to ~3/8" as I was splitting for a buttsection, but it sure seemed to split straighter with less effort... Thoughts? dws. from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 10 16:57:07 2001 fBAMv5t01950 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:57:05 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 0.767097 secs); 10 Dec 200122:57:02 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Terry, I have quite a few T&T rods . The earliest #2094 is the 94th rodMaxwell&Dorsey made and it has Silk wraps. All others I have are wrappedin silk. That is not to say that a customer did not request nylon. Asfar as makers I know that wrapped in nylon we have Orvis, Phillipson,Winston( SF models), Amherst and apparently some Howells. Marty Terry Finger wrote: To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers(i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from jfreeman@cyberport.com Mon Dec 10 18:00:56 2001 fBB00tt04037 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:00:55 - Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps All, I'm not knocking nylon; in fact, I use it on some plastic rods I build forfolks. However, I do like silk for bamboo. It was just startling for me tobe able to distinguish individual threads. I wasn't sure if I was seeingsome sort of ultra clear color lock or nylon. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps the current trend toward very fine thread is just that. the standard fortrout rods was A to 2/0. The silk thread thing was a point of wonder forJohn Weir in the 80's. He just said 'why?' He used Gudebrod 2/0 nylon on his rods. The old Gudebrod 2/0 was a 3 ply thread just like the A was . Thenewer stuff was just A with one of the plys taken out and didn't wrap smooth like the old stuff did. Most of my earlier rods are wrapped in the nylon Ibought from John. Now trying to sell a rod wrapped with nylon draws a gaspat your lack of couth and diminished sense of propriety. Still sometimeswonder why I don't go back to the nylon, still have 4 or 5 of those giantcones left. Everyone knows I have no sense of style anyway. As a BTWJohnwas always amazed at the need to use NS for the Rs hardware. He thoughtitwas too heavy, aluminum worked better , was lighter, and was readilyavailable. Like most of the past generation, he just built fishing rods.A.J. From: "Terry Finger" Subject: Nylon WrapsDate: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:50:51 +0000 To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers (i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from channer@frontier.net Mon Dec 10 18:06:43 2001 fBB06gt04352 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:06:42 - for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:20:38 - Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Kyle;Use what you want , every ghastly color known to man has been used onbamboo rods at one time or an other. You should see some of the godawful combinations that Montague, H-I, Shakespeare and others used toput on rods, there should have been a law! Nylon is much easier to workwith and wraps faster because of it's diameter than the fine silks wepunish ourselves with, my only complaint is that it looks like ropecompared to silk. If you guys are wondering where this all started, Ibelieve we have Tom Maxwell to thank(or whatever) for the currentcosmetics craze.John KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: If nylon is used, should the thread that has been pre-treated with colorpreserver be used, or should the non-treated thread be used? What about colors? I have only seen a handful of bamboo rods and all thewraps have been brown. What about dark green, black, crimson, or yellow:would using any of these colors on bamboo be a faux pas in the eyes of atraditionalist? (I'm not one to opt for tradition over my personal preference,I just want to know the difference...) Kyle In a message dated Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:39:57 AM Eastern StandardTime, "Allen Thramer" writes: the current trend toward very fine thread is just that. the standard fortrout rods was A to 2/0. The silk thread thing was a point of wonder forJohn Weir in the 80's. He just said 'why?' He used Gudebrod 2/0 nylon onhisrods. The old Gudebrod 2/0 was a 3 ply thread just like the A was . Thenewer stuff was just A with one of the plys taken out and didn't wrapsmoothlike the old stuff did. Most of my earlier rods are wrapped in the nylon Ibought from John. Now trying to sell a rod wrapped with nylon draws agaspat your lack of couth and diminished sense of propriety. Still sometimeswonder why I don't go back to the nylon, still have 4 or 5 of those giantcones left. Everyone knows I have no sense of style anyway. As a BTWJohnwas always amazed at the need to use NS for the Rs hardware. Hethought itwas too heavy, aluminum worked better , was lighter, and was readilyavailable. Like most of the past generation, he just built fishing rods.A.J. From: "Terry Finger" Subject: Nylon WrapsDate: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:50:51 +0000 To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers (i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Dec 10 18:17:11 2001 fBB0HAt04759 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:17:10 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:17:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps FILETIME=[29D7F630:01C181D9] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Terry, I have quite a few T&T rods . The earliest #2094 is the 94th rodMaxwell&Dorsey made and it has Silk wraps. All others I have are wrappedin silk. That is not to say that a customer did not request nylon. Asfar as makers I know that wrapped in nylon we have Orvis, Phillipson,Winston( SF models), Amherst and apparently some Howells. Marty Terry Finger wrote: To the List: With regard to the recent question of nylon wraps on a Howell's rod: As tough as it is to accept things we don't really want to believe, from what I have seen alot of the more recent "classic" rod makers(i.e., from the 60's - 80's) used nylon wraps. I bought my firstquality rods in the 1960's, and I don't remember hearing anydiscussions at all about silk vs. nylon. The rods were sold forfishing. And the thread is nowhere near 6/0 in size. I have abeautifully finished varnished T&T rod from the early 70's made ofpre-embargo cane with what I believe to be nylon wraps, and a fewyears later when T&T came out with a regular catalog, they wereselling thread as "size A nylon, the standard of the industry." Thewraps are tight, smooth, and beautiful. I'd like to know what others with more historical knowledgehave to say on this. It's obvious that the old rodmakers usedsilk in the years before nylon was readily available, but eventhen most of those old rods that I have seen appear to have threadsthat are larger than 6/0. Is it accurate to say that use of veryfine threads is a recent phenomenon? I should add that I do not intend any of this to be a criticism ofeither new or old rods. Good wraps are good wraps. I personallyprefer silk wraps with threads that are a bit larger than iscurrently fashionable, but I wouldn't hesitate to use nylon whereappropriate in restoring wraps. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us it's =worth, I have a Bob Summers' 8.5 ft. for 8-9 wt. which has nylon wraps...= th rodMaxwell&Dorsey made and it has Silk wraps. All others I hav=e are wrappedin silk. That is not to say that a customer did not requ=est nylon. Asfar as makers I know that wrapped in nylon we have Orvis=, Phillipson,Winston( SF models), Amherst and apparently some Howells= be= = tfinger@services.state.mo.us from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Dec 10 18:19:51 2001 fBB0Jot05038 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:19:50 - (207.103.155.22) Subject: Browntowning A question concerning browntowning bamboo........I picked up some blueprinting ammonia last week to try fuming bamboowithoutheat. Would it be best to place strips in to a chamber before or afterfinal planing, when bound before heat treating, or after rod is glued? Iunderstand this stuff is pretty dangerous to mess with and I need a littlerisk in my life.Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 18:34:38 2001 fBB0Yct05675 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:34:38 -0600 10 Dec 2001 16:34:37 PST Subject: Nylon Wraps all, i have wrapped some rods in nylon floss. theresults were very good. i don't believe anyone couldtell it wasn't silk. i t was out of an old box iextracted this floss. i have never been able to findmore. if i could i would use it. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send your FREE holiday greetings online!http://greetings.yahoo.com from beadman@mac.com Mon Dec 10 18:42:46 2001 fBB0gkt06127 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:42:46 - ;Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:42:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps At 3:13 PM -0500 , 12/10/01, WILLIAM HARMS wrote about Re: Nylon Wraps This is a pretty silly business, folks. Silk is very, very nice indeed, butif you can find fine nylon, there's nothing wrong with using it. In fact, Ireally do wonder how many builders among us could actually tell thedifference. Those who swear they can, often can't. So, Bill and others who use nylon at least occasionally, what is a good brand/size of nylon to use, and where do you buy it? Claude from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 10 19:04:37 2001 fBB14bt06865 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:04:37 - Subject: Lathe If anyone is in the market for a mini lathe contact me off list.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Mon Dec 10 19:21:04 2001 fBB1L3t07380 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:21:03 - Subject: RE: Nylon Wraps Gudebrod Size A, green is 5896, red is 326 (I believe). Both look nice. Thepurple is a nice color too, but I do not have the spool handy. I think thisis NCP nylon. I know it is from Angler's Workshop. The green looks greattipped with navy, and the red with black. The guys at the WNY Gathering sawthe intermediate rod with the green/navy combo. They seemed to like it, andno one said, "Hey, is that nylon!" Disclaimer: this nylon is only used sparingly in the time honored traditionof the silk using masters who have come before us and those practicing atpresent. LOL. Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps At 3:13 PM -0500 , 12/10/01, WILLIAM HARMS wrote about Re: Nylon Wraps This is a pretty silly business, folks. Silk is very, very nice indeed, but if you can find fine nylon, there's nothing wrong with using it. In fact, I really do wonder how many builders among us could actually tell thedifference. Those who swear they can, often can't. So, Bill and others who use nylon at least occasionally, what is agood brand/size of nylon to use, and where do you buy it? Claude from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Mon Dec 10 19:33:48 2001 fBB1Xmt07828 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:33:48 - Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:33:42 -0800 Tue, 11 Dec 2001 01:33:42 GMT Subject: Re: Browntoning FILETIME=[DE2E4C60:01C181E3] Not this kind of risk! That stuff can seriously hurt you if you are not careful. One whiff and your eyes will all but shut and your lungs will be rejected by the rest of your otherwise untainted body. Don't ask me how I know this.... Read all you can on "fuming wood" on the woodworking sites and have at it. I have not gotten around to trying it yet, but the reaction with tannins in wood will be more than rind deep (Gustav Stickley himself told me that!). I would take the rind off of some pieces to be tested so you can get an accurate color sample. Keep some of the varnish you use handy so you canrub a little on after it's fumed to again get an accurate color sample. Do it outdoors if possible and BE CAREFUL!!!!! Also, let us know what you come up with! [;-)] Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 10 19:42:30 2001 fBB1gTt08230 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:42:29 - (authenticated) Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:42:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Bill, Please, say it isn't so! But let me correct you on one note; the severestrings in the Inferno are reserved only for those who use single foot guidesandsecure them with epoxy. Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I am almost ashamed to admit that I've wrapped some of my rods in nylon-- thesnob-appeal of silk is so pervasive. Among Dante's rings in the Inferno,current rod-makers seem to reserve the severest punishment for thosewhowould deign to violate our covenant with silk. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Dec 10 20:01:08 2001 fBB216t08829 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:01:06 - Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:58:43 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:58:41 +0800 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Nylon Wraps Good God!! No-one actually does that, do they? -----Original Message----- Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I am almost ashamed to admit that I've wrapped some of my rods in nylon--the snob-appeal of silk is so pervasive. Among Dante's rings in the Inferno,current rod-makers seem to reserve the severest punishment for thosewhowould deign to violate our covenant with silk. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 20:05:37 2001 fBB25at09134 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:05:36 - 10 Dec 2001 18:05:35 PST Subject: RE: Nylon Wraps "'fbcwin@3g.quik.com'" , harms1@pa.net,Rodmakers i've never seen it but i have heard of such things! timothy --- "Roberts, Michael"wrote: Good God!! No-one actually does that, do they? -----Original Message----- rings in the Inferno are reserved only for those whouse single foot guidesandsecure them with epoxy. Harry ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 10 20:26:34 2001 fBB2QYt09793 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:26:34 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 0.548643 secs); 11 Dec 200102:26:32 -0000 Subject: Re: Browntowning I do it after the strips are glued up ,filed and sanded ready for finish. Iplace a PVC tube over the mouth of the jug (of course after I take a wiff ofthestuff to clear my head) and tape it W/ duct tape. I do it in a green house Ihave attached to the house. The sun heats it up to 95 degrees F. even on thecoldest winter day. In summer I do it outside.I suspend the sections down thetube and check them every day till I get the color I want. I only do it forremaking tips on existing rods such as Heddon , Granger and Edwards. Marty David Rinker wrote: A question concerning browntowning bamboo........I picked up some blueprinting ammonia last week to try fuming bamboowithoutheat. Would it be best to place strips in to a chamber before or afterfinal planing, when bound before heat treating, or after rod is glued? Iunderstand this stuff is pretty dangerous to mess with and I need a littlerisk in my life.Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Dec 10 20:40:01 2001 fBB2e1t10267 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:40:01 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16Dcpr-0003d4-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:40:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Harry: that his blessing and the revolution will ensue.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Bill, Please, say it isn't so! But let me correct you on one note; the severest rings in the Inferno are reserved only for those who use single foot guides and secure them with epoxy. Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I am almost ashamed to admit that I've wrapped some of my rods in nylon--the snob-appeal of silk is so pervasive. Among Dante's rings in the Inferno, current rod-makers seem to reserve the severest punishment for thosewhowould deign to violate our covenant with silk. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 10 20:46:16 2001 fBB2kFt10624 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:46:15 -0600 helo=default) id 16Dcvu-0006D4-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:46:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Let the heathen amongst us show themselves! Out with you now for all theworld to see!! M-D Good God!! No-one actually does that, do they? -----Original Message----- rings in the Inferno are reserved only for those who use single foot guides andsecure them with epoxy. Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I am almost ashamed to admit that I've wrapped some of my rods in nylon--the snob-appeal of silk is so pervasive. Among Dante's rings in the Inferno, current rod-makers seem to reserve the severest punishment for thosewhowould deign to violate our covenant with silk. from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Dec 10 21:15:37 2001 fBB3FZt11461 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:15:35 - 10 Dec 2001 19:15:35 PST Subject: RE: Nylon Wraps Yeah, well that might look OK on a very, very carefully sanded rod. --- Bob Maulucci wrote: Gudebrod Size A, green is 5896, red is 326 (I believe). Both looknice. Thepurple is a nice color too, but I do not have the spool handy. Ithink thisis NCP nylon. I know it is from Angler's Workshop. The green looksgreattipped with navy, and the red with black. The guys at the WNYGathering sawthe intermediate rod with the green/navy combo. They seemed to likeit, andno one said, "Hey, is that nylon!" Disclaimer: this nylon is only used sparingly in the time honoredtraditionof the silk using masters who have come before us and thosepracticing atpresent. LOL. Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu FreanerSent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:42 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Nylon Wraps At 3:13 PM -0500 , 12/10/01, WILLIAM HARMS wrote about Re: NylonWraps This is a pretty silly business, folks. Silk is very, very nice indeed, but if you can find fine nylon, there's nothing wrong with using it. In fact, I really do wonder how many builders among us could actually tell the difference. Those who swear they can, often can't. So, Bill and others who use nylon at least occasionally, what is agood brand/size of nylon to use, and where do you buy it? Claude __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Dec 10 21:17:34 2001 fBB3HXt11698 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:17:33 - Subject: RE: Nylon Wraps Word. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Nylon Wraps Yeah, well that might look OK on a very, very carefully sanded rod. from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Dec 10 22:21:57 2001 fBB4Lut13235 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:21:56 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Super Z Ferrules I have 2 sets of Super Z ferrules in Herters packages. The 17/64 ferrule hasHerters stamped on ferrule, the other is a 16/64 has no stamp on it..Anyone interested email me.. Thanks Dave I have 2 sets of Super Z ferrules in Herters packages. The 17/64 ferrule has Herters stamped on ferrule, the other is a16/64 Dave from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 10 23:38:38 2001 fBB5cbt16054 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:38:37 - (authenticated) Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:38:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Michael, I have a friend in Shreveport, Louisiana, who did just that. Thankgoodness, it was an old SouthBend or H-I refinish job, and not a perfectlygoodnew rod. Shuddering,Harry "Roberts, Michael" wrote: Good God!! No-one actually does that, do they? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 10 23:39:42 2001 fBB5dft16250 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:39:41 - (authenticated) Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:39:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps Ed, You might be correct. Who knows, if Gierach gives it his blessing, thenJohn might actually buy a rod from someone who builds his own blanks! Harry Ed Riddle wrote: Harry: that his blessing and the revolution will ensue. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 00:03:00 2001 fBB62xt17212 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:02:59 - ([209.178.136.56] helo=g2t8c9) id 16Dg0I-0002wS-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:02:58 -0800 Subject: Nylon wraps In Milwards Book he states he uses nylon for his wraps and he challengesanyone to tell it from silk. It is kind of funny... Here we are making Custom Rods and yet if a makerdoes something differant then others his work is held up as somehow "Notstatus Quo". A maker defines what his work is be it using nylon, gossamer,napels or 00. If it is not what everyone else is using it is apparent hedoes not give a damn what others are doing. If he wanted to make a rod likeeverbody else he would be doing just that. I personally have in my minds eyewhat a rod should be for me, and this is what I strive for in making my ownrods. Others have a differant vision. I have seen bamboo rods with varnishon their grips, long reels seats and silicon carbide strippers. These thingsare not part of my vision of the ultimate rod. But to others it is. I sawHowells rod go for $4500 on ebay even with power fibers showing. Then againPicassos has paintings that look wierd and they sell for hundreds ofthousands. Who is to say what is right? I know what is right for me and actually I have only seen 5 makers that makerods that I would consider to emulate. This does not mean other makers arewrong in what they do far from it. Rodmakers flinch and wince start to rantat the mention of a rod makers guild and refuse to even think about itbecause they do not want someone to tell them what they do is wrong. Yet itin many ways is already here. Adam Vigil from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 11 03:28:19 2001 fBB9SHt19507 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 03:28:17 - Subject: Re: Nylon wraps Trying to define what is unique and what is just weird is as hard as telling art in the form of a painting of Cambels soup tins repeated on some canvas compared to Michael (the statue). Both are art (apparently) but who could tell until time has passed.Bamboo rods really are pretty weird though. They are useless as fishing rods unless they actually cast well yet rods that cost too much to be cast any longer keep rising in value taking pretty average older rods with them price wise while people making bloody nice rods brand new are struggling to sell them for a half decent price because (until yesterday) nylon wraps defined the min accepted. The older rods also are often very eccentric in the measurements between the flats yet again people wip out their micrometers and pass judgement on makers putting more effort into rodsmade now than they were in days gone by and whose rods are currently selling for more can be pretty average.It's my personal belief dealers are all honest rodmaker's worst enemies. They cause inflation of rods not really worth the prices due entirely because of scarcity which is fair enough but they also want to inflate the prices of not so nice rods simply because they are older and therefor scarce too.Along the way dealers also define the min standard for new rods and these standards aren't really what you'd call realistic in a lot of cases because meeting them only to find everybody is in the same market.Variation is good, plain rods of the king TA would call fishin poles have their place as much as top notch rods do.Take a look at a new Hardy some time and see what you get for a stupid amount of money. Wouldn't get a 2nd look without the label. Tony At 09:59 PM 12/10/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: In Milwards Book he states he uses nylon for his wraps and he challengesanyone to tell it from silk. It is kind of funny... Here we are making Custom Rods and yet if a makerdoes something differant then others his work is held up as somehow "Notstatus Quo". A maker defines what his work is be it using nylon, gossamer,napels or 00. If it is not what everyone else is using it is apparent hedoes not give a damn what others are doing. If he wanted to make a rod likeeverbody else he would be doing just that. I personally have in my minds eyewhat a rod should be for me, and this is what I strive for in making my ownrods. Others have a differant vision. I have seen bamboo rods with varnishon their grips, long reels seats and silicon carbide strippers. These thingsare not part of my vision of the ultimate rod. But to others it is. I sawHowells rod go for $4500 on ebay even with power fibers showing. ThenagainPicassos has paintings that look wierd and they sell for hundreds ofthousands. Who is to say what is right? I know what is right for me and actually I have only seen 5 makers thatmakerods that I would consider to emulate. This does not mean other makers arewrong in what they do far from it. Rodmakers flinch and wince start torantat the mention of a rod makers guild and refuse to even think about itbecause they do not want someone to tell them what they do is wrong. Yetitin many ways is already here. Adam Vigil /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Dec 11 05:44:55 2001 fBBBirt20699 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:44:54 - fBBBijS51724; Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Taylor Me bought heating thing used to warm home brew tubs. Not kind you put in brew, goes around outside of tub. Soft plastic strip. Me wrap around dip tube, turn on switch, make varnish warm. Work bloody well. Cheap too. Peter (Not game use more words in case Jojo think too much - Jojo very evil man.) from "Marty D. aka \"none" Tue Dec 11 05:58:08 2001 fBBBw7t20970 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:58:08 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 1.404039 secs); 11 Dec 200111:58:05 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Nylon wraps It's the same old unfair economy. Dealers make more than Rodmakers,Realtors makemore than House Builders, Brick Salesmen make more then Masons, CarSalesman makemore then someone on the automotive assembly line. If you can actually dosomething with your 2 hands your in trouble. Marty Tony Young wrote: Trying to define what is unique and what is just weird is as hard astelling art in the form of a painting of Cambels soup tins repeated on somecanvas compared to Michael (the statue). Both are art (apparently) butwhocould tell until time has passed.Bamboo rods really are pretty weird though. They are useless as fishingrods unless they actually cast well yet rods that cost too much to be castany longer keep rising in value taking pretty average older rods with themprice wise while people making bloody nice rods brand new are struggling tosell them for a half decent price because (until yesterday) nylon wrapsdefined the min accepted. The older rods also are often very eccentric inthe measurements between the flats yet again people wip out theirmicrometers and pass judgement on makers putting more effort into rodsmadenow than they were in days gone by and whose rods are currently sellingformore can be pretty average.It's my personal belief dealers are all honest rodmaker's worst enemies.They cause inflation of rods not really worth the prices due entirelybecause of scarcity which is fair enough but they also want to inflate theprices of not so nice rods simply because they are older and thereforscarce too.Along the way dealers also define the min standard for new rods and thesestandards aren't really what you'd call realistic in a lot of cases because meetingthem only to find everybody is in the same market.Variation is good, plain rods of the king TA would call fishin poles havetheir place as much as top notch rods do.Take a look at a new Hardy some time and see what you get for a stupidamount of money. Wouldn't get a 2nd look without the label. Tony At 09:59 PM 12/10/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: In Milwards Book he states he uses nylon for his wraps and he challengesanyone to tell it from silk. It is kind of funny... Here we are making Custom Rods and yet if a makerdoes something differant then others his work is held up as somehow"Notstatus Quo". A maker defines what his work is be it using nylon,gossamer,napels or 00. If it is not what everyone else is using it is apparent hedoes not give a damn what others are doing. If he wanted to make a rodlikeeverbody else he would be doing just that. I personally have in my mindseyewhat a rod should be for me, and this is what I strive for in making myownrods. Others have a differant vision. I have seen bamboo rods withvarnishon their grips, long reels seats and silicon carbide strippers. These thingsare not part of my vision of the ultimate rod. But to others it is. I sawHowells rod go for $4500 on ebay even with power fibers showing. ThenagainPicassos has paintings that look wierd and they sell for hundreds ofthousands. Who is to say what is right? I know what is right for me and actually I have only seen 5 makers thatmakerods that I would consider to emulate. This does not mean other makersarewrong in what they do far from it. Rodmakers flinch and wince start torantat the mention of a rod makers guild and refuse to even think about itbecause they do not want someone to tell them what they do is wrong.Yet itin many ways is already here. Adam Vigil /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Dec 11 06:31:46 2001 fBBCVjt21405 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:31:45 -0600 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Subject: Nylon Wraps Guys/Gals, I use nylon - like it and don't intend to change. Silk is tough to work with,fuzzy, won't burnish well, stains, rots and is generally a pain. So I'm an infidel. Any hope now that I've confessed. catch ya' Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Dec 11 06:32:11 2001 fBBCWBt21501 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:32:11 - Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:33:09 -0400 Organization: New Scotland fly Rods Subject: Re: Nylon Wraps --------------DF67CE711C92F0A15C8A8896 "those who use single foot guides andsecure them with epoxy." Harry Guess that would work well for the guys that like clear wraps, I can justhearthem "I did such a good job, I dare you to find the thread wraps!" ;^) Shawn --------------DF67CE711C92F0A15C8A8896 name="bamboorules.vcf" filename="bamboorules.vcf" begin:vcard n:Pineo;Shawn url:http://nsflyrods.tripod.caorg:New Scotland Fly Rodsversion:2.1title:Owner / Rod Craftsmanadr;quoted-printable:;;20 Melrose Cr.,=0D=0A;Eastern Passage ;NovaScotia;B3G 1N6;Canadafn:Shawn Pineoend:vcard --------------DF67CE711C92F0A15C8A8896-- from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Dec 11 07:10:35 2001 fBBDAZt22338 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:10:35 - Subject: bumped in the night it appears that i got bumped sunday night,have i missed anything good? tia Brad from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 11 08:01:29 2001 fBBE1Tt23242 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:01:29 - (authenticated) for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:01:03 -0800 Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Friends, Far be it from me to have a dirty mind, but looking at the subject line onthis thread of messages, it sure is tempting to say something sarcastic. Youknow, something like: "Well, I've found that a nice bottle of wine and a chicflick movie helps warm the old dip tube up." Signed,That guy who wasn't always a Baptist preacher from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Dec 11 08:11:36 2001 fBBEBZt23649 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:11:35 - Subject: RE: Warming the dip tube A dirty mind is a bad thing to waste! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Friends, Far be it from me to have a dirty mind, but looking at the subject lineonthis thread of messages, it sure is tempting to say something sarcastic.Youknow, something like: "Well, I've found that a nice bottle of wine and achicflick movie helps warm the old dip tube up." Signed,That guy who wasn't always a Baptist preacher from thogan@rochester.rr.com Tue Dec 11 08:31:35 2001 fBBEVYt24435 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:31:34 - fBBEVWE16327 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:31:32 - Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful comments on my question.I have settled on a style that involves a mentioned practice of a copperinner tube surrounded by a much larger PVC tube. As for a heating source, Iam trying out an old heat pad, or perhaps a string of Christmas lights. Bothare cheap. Thank you Reverend Boyd for your off color comments. Your humordemonstratesthat people of your profession are human, and are actually likable folk. RegardsTaylor from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 11 08:45:22 2001 fBBEjLt25047 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:45:22 -0600 helo=default) id 16Do9o-0006N1-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:45:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Tip Tops Darryl, You were correct about the tubes being steel. Originally they were =stainless, which makes me wonder why the tubes were so thick walled. REC =is now using some alloy of anodized flexible aluminum. That's the word =they used 'flexible', though I suspect it is one of the more malleable =alloys. M-D Subject: Re: Tip Tops You could be right, but the way the tube was crimped and I used a file =on it to see if it could be filed easily leads me to think it was steel.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/9/01 2:16:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, =jojo@ipa.net writes: Can't disagree regarding the appearance, but I'm certain the tubing =is titanium, with an overall resulting weight savings, no matter how =small. M-D Darryl, You were correctabout = being steel. Originally they were stainless, which makes me wonder why = aluminum. That's the word they used 'flexible', though I suspect it is = the more malleable alloys. M-D ----- Original Message ----- DNHayashida@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Tip Tops could be right, but the way the tube was crimped and I used a file on = see if it could be filed easily leads me to think it was = HayashidaIn a message dated 12/9/01 2:16:02 PM Pacific = jojo@ipa.net =writes:Can't disagree regarding the appearance, but I'm = tubing is titanium, with an overall resulting weight savings, no = small.M-D from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Dec 11 09:03:45 2001 fBBF3jt25852 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:03:45 - Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:59:53 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:03:36 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Nylon wraps FILETIME=[7C8CF1C0:01C18254] fBBF3jt25853 Well said Adam! "Adam Vigil" 12/10/01 10:59PM >>> In Milwards Book he states he uses nylon for his wraps and he challengesanyone to tell it from silk. It is kind of funny... Here we are making Custom Rods and yet if a makerdoes something differant then others his work is held up as somehow "Notstatus Quo". A maker defines what his work is be it using nylon, gossamer,napels or 00. If it is not what everyone else is using it is apparent hedoes not give a damn what others are doing. If he wanted to make a rod likeeverbody else he would be doing just that. I personally have in my minds eyewhat a rod should be for me, and this is what I strive for in making my ownrods. Others have a differant vision. I have seen bamboo rods with varnishon their grips, long reels seats and silicon carbide strippers. These thingsare not part of my vision of the ultimate rod. But to others it is. I sawHowells rod go for $4500 on ebay even with power fibers showing. Then againPicassos has paintings that look wierd and they sell for hundreds ofthousands. Who is to say what is right? I know what is right for me and actually I have only seen 5 makers that makerods that I would consider to emulate. This does not mean other makers arewrong in what they do far from it. Rodmakers flinch and wince start to rantat the mention of a rod makers guild and refuse to even think about itbecause they do not want someone to tell them what they do is wrong. Yet itin many ways is already here. Adam Vigil from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 11 09:37:03 2001 fBBFb2t27543 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:37:02 - id 16Doxg-0008QD-00; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:36:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Nylon wraps Well, Tony, two things come to mind. One is fads. I think much of thepresent craze to collect things is a fad. When I was young, I had an XKE; aJaguar. I loved that car but when I got married, it went. Just not a familycar. In the 80's I decided I wanted to get an old one and restore it. I did andas I looked around for parts, I discovered a real explosion on restored carswas driving the prices up. One XKE that had been burned and pushed off acliff in a movie was priced at $45,000. The situation didn't last however andmost people lost the desire for restored cars. The cash value of my '70 XKEis about the same as what I paid in 1984(not adjusted) after 17 years ofinflation! Now on the other hand, there is flashlights. A plastic tube, plastic reflector,a really cheap switch and you are looking at $5 to $10. Buy a Mag light, aplastic reflector, better switch and an aluminum tube and you are looking at$18 to $20 in Walmart's. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com avyoung@iinet.net.au wrote: Trying to define what is unique and what is just weird is as hard as telling art in the form of a painting of Cambels soup tins repeated on some canvas compared to Michael (the statue). Both are art (apparently) but who could tell until time has passed.Bamboo rods really are pretty weird though. They are useless as fishing rods unless they actually cast well yet rods that cost too much to be cast any longer keep rising in value taking pretty average older rods with them price wise while people making bloody nice rods brand new are struggling to sell them for a half decent price because (until yesterday) nylon wraps defined the min accepted. The older rods also are often very eccentric in the measurements between the flats yet again people wip out their micrometers and pass judgement on makers putting more effort into rodsmade now than they were in days gone by and whose rods are currently selling for more can be pretty average.It's my personal belief dealers are all honest rodmaker's worst enemies. They cause inflation of rods not really worth the prices due entirely because of scarcity which is fair enough but they also want to inflate the prices of not so nice rods simply because they are older and therefor scarce too.Along the way dealers also define the min standard for new rods and these standards aren't really what you'd call realistic in a lot of cases because meeting them only to find everybody is in the same market.Variation is good, plain rods of the king TA would call fishin poles have their place as much as top notch rods do.Take a look at a new Hardy some time and see what you get for a stupid amount of money. Wouldn't get a 2nd look without the label. Tony At 09:59 PM 12/10/01 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: In Milwards Book he states he uses nylon for his wraps and he challengesanyone to tell it from silk. It is kind of funny... Here we are making Custom Rods and yet if a makerdoes something differant then others his work is held up as somehow "Notstatus Quo". A maker defines what his work is be it using nylon, gossamer,napels or 00. If it is not what everyone else is using it is apparent hedoes not give a damn what others are doing. If he wanted to make a rod likeeverbody else he would be doing just that. I personally have in my minds eyewhat a rod should be for me, and this is what I strive for in making my ownrods. Others have a differant vision. I have seen bamboo rods with varnishon their grips, long reels seats and silicon carbide strippers. These thingsare not part of my vision of the ultimate rod. But to others it is. I sawHowells rod go for $4500 on ebay even with power fibers showing. ThenagainPicassos has paintings that look wierd and they sell for hundreds ofthousands. Who is to say what is right? I know what is right for me and actually I have only seen 5 makers thatmakerods that I would consider to emulate. This does not mean other makers arewrong in what they do far from it. Rodmakers flinch and wince start torantat the mention of a rod makers guild and refuse to even think about itbecause they do not want someone to tell them what they do is wrong. Yetitin many ways is already here. Adam Vigil /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Dec 11 09:38:01 2001 fBBFc0t27652 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:38:00 - id ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:31:29 -0500 id Y2QP40B4; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:31:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Boy Harry! If that isn't a backhanded compliment I wouldn't know onewhen I saw it! ROTFL taylor hogan wrote: I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful comments on myquestion.I have settled on a style that involves a mentioned practice of a copperinner tube surrounded by a much larger PVC tube. As for a heating source,Iam trying out an old heat pad, or perhaps a string of Christmas lights.Bothare cheap. Thank you Reverend Boyd for your off color comments. Your humordemonstratesthat people of your profession are human, and are actually likable folk. RegardsTaylor -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from harms1@pa.net Tue Dec 11 09:40:18 2001 Received: from From: "WILLIAM HARMS" References:Subject: Re: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Don, Nope. No hope. What wewant is evidence of contrition! Mere confessions don't cut it. cheers, Bill -----Original Message ----- From: "Don & Sandy Andersen" Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:27 AM Subject: Nylon Wraps Guys/Gals, I use nylon - like it and don't intend to change. Silk is tough to work with, fuzzy, won't burnish well, stains, rots and is generally a pain. So I'm an infidel. Any hope now that I've confessed. catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 11 10:08:24 2001 fBBG8Mt29314 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:08:23 - Subject: Re: Nylon wraps But the differences between a Jag and a Dodge is tangible and even then plenty wouldn't think a Jag is any better than a Dodge and there is a dif between a Maglite and plastic torch (flash lite) The maglite is a lot better than almost any other torch you could compare of the type exceptthe Pelican LED type ones which I like very much indeed.My beef is dealers and speculative buyers are controlling the market in ways that aren't necessarily best for the craft. We're all aiming at making streamside jewelry otherwise the rods aren't up to scratch because people have come to think of new rods in that way that while the older rods in all likeliness aren't even as good modern rods even when they are as near to perfect as human hands can make.Don't get me wrong, in a way I guess that is how bamboo rods should be made, nothing much else is really crafted in this world except instruments, but what I dislike is average used rods being sold for the same sort of money as very nice new ones. They simply can't be worth the same as a fishing rod.That's bad for the makers and it's bad for the craft. How can a rod that looks like that (that being no different to hundreds of other rods) sell for 4.5K? Who can say how well it'll cast because nobody will try.I tell you, if I ever wound up for some reason with rod worth anything like a Garrison etc I'd flog it off in a flash and think myself lucky to have it off my hands before the music stops and all these stupid prices fall as they must and I'm the one still standing without a seat. I really like to use hand tools. I'm left handed so power tools are no fun in the least and dangerous at the worst and there's nothing worse than seeing a really nice tool under glass and the guy who owns it either wont sell because he's holding out for a better price or wont sell period, I'm not talking genuine Baily planes here, just nice chisels, plane irons etc. All the decent stuff disapears, the everage stuff is all that's left then even it becomes overpriced. Stamps were also like this. About 20 years ago there was an enormousdegree of speculative stamp collecting. It was impossible to get certain stamps because they were either snapped up or they simply weren't worth the price being asked. Sure enough the bottom fell out and things stabalised. I really hope that happens with rods sooner or later. Tony At 10:36 AM 12/11/01 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: Well, Tony, two things come to mind. One is fads. I think much of the present craze to collect things is a fad. When I was young, I had an XKE; a Jaguar. I loved that car but when I got married, it went. Just not a family car. In the 80's I decided I wanted to get an old one and restore it. I did and as I looked around for parts, I discovered a real explosion on restored cars was driving the prices up. One XKE that had been burned and pushed off a cliff in a movie was priced at $45,000. The situation didn't last however and most people lost the desire for restored cars. The cash value of my '70 XKE is about the same as what I paid in 1984(not adjusted) after 17 years of inflation! Now on the other hand, there is flashlights. A plastic tube, plastic reflector, a really cheap switch and you are looking at $5 to $10. Buy a Mag light, a plastic reflector, better switch and an aluminum tube and you are looking at $18 to $20 in Walmart's. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 11 10:18:42 2001 fBBGIgt00005 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:18:42 -0600 helo=default) id 16Dpc5-0003M5-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:18:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Nylon wraps Tony, You old cynic, you. How's about if I get you into the Ostrich or Emu farmingbusiness? Good investment potential, you know. Yeah, I know, you guys havebig birds over there, but these are genuine, transplanted to the USA Emu.There's a big difference. You might also consider collecting useless thingslike Beanie Babies, or just any old trading card. Hell, they've even gotBill Clinton trading cards now. People gobbled them right up . . . uh, noMonica innuendo intended here. M-D But the differences between a Jag and a Dodge is tangible and even thenplenty wouldn't think a Jag is any better than a Dodge and there is a difbetween a Maglite and plastic torch (flash lite) The maglite is a lotbetter than almost any other torch you could compare of the type except the Pelican LED type ones which I like very much indeed.My beef is dealers and speculative buyers are controlling the market inways that aren't necessarily best for the craft. We're all aiming at making streamside jewelry otherwise the rods aren't up to scratch because peoplehave come to think of new rods in that way that while the older rods in all likeliness aren't even as good modern rods even when they are as near toperfect as human hands can make.Don't get me wrong, in a way I guess that is how bamboo rods should bemade, nothing much else is really crafted in this world except instruments, but what I dislike is average used rods being sold for the same sort ofmoney as very nice new ones. They simply can't be worth the same as afishing rod.That's bad for the makers and it's bad for the craft. How can a rod that looks like that (that being no different to hundreds ofother rods) sell for 4.5K? Who can say how well it'll cast because nobodywill try.I tell you, if I ever wound up for some reason with rod worth anything like a Garrison etc I'd flog it off in a flash and think myself lucky to have it off my hands before the music stops and all these stupid prices fall asthey must and I'm the one still standing without a seat. I really like to use hand tools. I'm left handed so power tools are no funin the least and dangerous at the worst and there's nothing worse thanseeing a really nice tool under glass and the guy who owns it either wontsell because he's holding out for a better price or wont sell period, I'mnot talking genuine Baily planes here, just nice chisels, plane irons etc.All the decent stuff disapears, the everage stuff is all that's left theneven it becomes overpriced. Stamps were also like this. About 20 years ago there was an enormous degree of speculative stamp collecting. It was impossible to get certain stampsbecause they were either snapped up or they simply weren't worth thepricebeing asked. Sure enough the bottom fell out and things stabalised. Ireally hope that happens with rods sooner or later. Tony At 10:36 AM 12/11/01 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: Well, Tony, two things come to mind. One is fads. I think much of thepresent craze to collect things is a fad. When I was young, I had an XKE; a Jaguar. I loved that car but when I got married, it went. Just not afamily car. In the 80's I decided I wanted to get an old one and restoreit. I did and as I looked around for parts, I discovered a real explosion on restored cars was driving the prices up. One XKE that had been burnedand pushed off a cliff in a movie was priced at $45,000. The situationdidn't last however and most people lost the desire for restoredcars. The cash value of my '70 XKE is about the same as what I paid in1984(not adjusted) after 17 years of inflation! Now on the other hand, there is flashlights. A plastic tube, plasticreflector, a really cheap switch and you are looking at $5 to $10. Buy aMag light, a plastic reflector, better switch and an aluminum tube and you are looking at $18 to $20 in Walmart's. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 11 10:23:07 2001 fBBGN6t00537 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:23:06 - (authenticated) Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:22:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube taylor hogan wrote: Thank you Reverend Boyd for your off color comments. Your humordemonstratesthat people of your profession are human, and are actually likable folk. Taylor, Nice to know that my profession doesn't automatically qualify one as ahorse's ass. Seems that my boss was prone to hanging around with whores,IRSagents, and various other sinners. So in His honor, I hang around withrodmakers and other bamboo nuts. year. The rest of the time, "Harry" will do quite nicely SEG,Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 11 10:24:55 2001 fBBGOst00773 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:24:54 - Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Just don't come to one of the gatherings and start kicking over tables and throwing our stuff in the street.Bret http://hometown.aol.com/grhghlndr/index.html from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 11 10:32:53 2001 fBBGWqt01411 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:32:53 -0600 helo=default) id 16Dpps-0006l7-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:32:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube As long as you stay far away from those nylon wrappers and/or singlefootersyou shouldn't be in any danger of eternal damnation, Harry. Even He had Hislimits. }B^)> M-D taylor hogan wrote: Thank you Reverend Boyd for your off color comments. Your humor demonstrates that people of your profession are human, and are actually likable folk. Taylor, Nice to know that my profession doesn't automatically qualify one as ahorse's ass. Seems that my boss was prone to hanging around withwhores, IRS agents, and various other sinners. So in His honor, I hang around withrodmakers and other bamboo nuts. SEG,Harry from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Dec 11 10:39:45 2001 fBBGdit02035 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:39:44 - 0000 Subject: Re: bumped in the night Shhh!!Nobody tell Brad the big secret he missed, OK? tom----- Original Message ----- Subject: bumped in the night it appears that i got bumped sunday night,have i missed anything good? tia Brad from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 11 10:42:22 2001 fBBGgKt02360 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:42:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Nylon wraps I guess the emu market will go the same way as the gensing market, same as the mohair market, same as pretty much every other market there is notrue demand for.Just on the subject of emus I feel duty bound to try to help you guys out with the pronunciation of emu.It's not emooo, nor eeemooo, nor eemo it's eam-you like team without the t and you like (t)eam-you.I was quite puzzled for a while when people kept asking me about eeeemooo feathers which as far as I know nobody much use here. It was days before I knew what I was being asked about [:-)] I think it's time Sea Monkeys made a comeback, and pet rocks have to be along any day now. Flared jeans are back so the time is ripe. Tony At 10:13 AM 12/11/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Tony, You old cynic, you. How's about if I get you into the Ostrich or Emu farmingbusiness? Good investment potential, you know. Yeah, I know, you guys havebig birds over there, but these are genuine, transplanted to the USA Emu.There's a big difference. You might also consider collecting useless thingslike Beanie Babies, or just any old trading card. Hell, they've even gotBill Clinton trading cards now. People gobbled them right up . . . uh, noMonica innuendo intended here. M-D From: "Tony Young" But the differences between a Jag and a Dodge is tangible and even thenplenty wouldn't think a Jag is any better than a Dodge and there is a difbetween a Maglite and plastic torch (flash lite) The maglite is a lotbetter than almost any other torch you could compare of the typeexcept the Pelican LED type ones which I like very much indeed.My beef is dealers and speculative buyers are controlling the market inways that aren't necessarily best for the craft. We're all aiming at making streamside jewelry otherwise the rods aren't up to scratch becausepeoplehave come to think of new rods in that way that while the older rods in all likeliness aren't even as good modern rods even when they are as near toperfect as human hands can make.Don't get me wrong, in a way I guess that is how bamboo rods should bemade, nothing much else is really crafted in this world except instruments, but what I dislike is average used rods being sold for the same sort ofmoney as very nice new ones. They simply can't be worth the same as afishing rod.That's bad for the makers and it's bad for the craft. How can a rod that looks like that (that being no different to hundreds ofother rods) sell for 4.5K? Who can say how well it'll cast because nobodywill try.I tell you, if I ever wound up for some reason with rod worth anything like a Garrison etc I'd flog it off in a flash and think myself lucky to have it off my hands before the music stops and all these stupid prices fall asthey must and I'm the one still standing without a seat. I really like to use hand tools. I'm left handed so power tools are no funin the least and dangerous at the worst and there's nothing worse thanseeing a really nice tool under glass and the guy who owns it either wontsell because he's holding out for a better price or wont sell period, I'mnot talking genuine Baily planes here, just nice chisels, plane irons etc.All the decent stuff disapears, the everage stuff is all that's left theneven it becomes overpriced. Stamps were also like this. About 20 years ago there was an enormous degree of speculative stamp collecting. It was impossible to get certain stampsbecause they were either snapped up or they simply weren't worth thepricebeing asked. Sure enough the bottom fell out and things stabalised. Ireally hope that happens with rods sooner or later. Tony At 10:36 AM 12/11/01 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: Well, Tony, two things come to mind. One is fads. I think much of thepresent craze to collect things is a fad. When I was young, I had an XKE; a Jaguar. I loved that car but when I got married, it went. Just not afamily car. In the 80's I decided I wanted to get an old one and restoreit. I did and as I looked around for parts, I discovered a real explosion on restored cars was driving the prices up. One XKE that had beenburnedand pushed off a cliff in a movie was priced at $45,000. The situationdidn't last however and most people lost the desire for restoredcars. The cash value of my '70 XKE is about the same as what I paid in1984(not adjusted) after 17 years of inflation! Now on the other hand, there is flashlights. A plastic tube, plasticreflector, a really cheap switch and you are looking at $5 to $10. Buy aMag light, a plastic reflector, better switch and an aluminum tube and you are looking at $18 to $20 in Walmart's. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Dec 11 10:54:08 2001 fBBGs7t03100 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:54:07 - id ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:47:35 -0500 id Y2QP40DV; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:47:31 -0500 Subject: Re: bumped in the night I can do that, but may I add it to the tips archive? Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Shhh!!Nobody tell Brad the big secret he missed, OK? tom----- Original Message -----From: Brad Love Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:09 AMSubject: bumped in the night it appears that i got bumped sunday night,have i missed anything good? tiaBrad -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Dec 11 10:56:55 2001 Received: from fBBGust03386 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:55:45 -0500 From: earsdws@duke.edu Organization: Hearing ResearchLaboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, X- Mailer: Mozilla avyoung@iinet.net.au CC: jojo@ipa.net, Rodmakers discussion groupSubject: Re: Nylon wraps References: Content-Type: earsdws@duke.edu Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Whenyou decide to clean out your emu (eam-you) coral, let me know. I have gottenaddicted to emu (eam-you) and ostrich. Those of you with cholesterol [orblubber] problems, you should try the stuff (just don't over cook, with nofat, it converts to shoe leather rather quickly). (I won't admit to theparticular malady that set me to eating the birds, though the Bosslady saysit is a personality defect). Bon appetit, dws. Tony Young wrote: I guess the emu market will go the same way as the gensing market, sameasthe mohair market, same as pretty much every other market there is notruedemand for.Just on the subject of emus I feel duty bound to try to help you guys outwith the pronunciation of emu.It's not emooo, nor eeemooo, nor eemo it's eam-you like team without the tand you like (t)eam-you.I was quite puzzled for a while when people kept asking me about eeeemooofeathers which as far as I know nobody much use here. It was days before Iknew what I was being asked about [:-)] I think it's time Sea Monkeys made a comeback, and pet rocks have to bealong any day now. Flared jeans are back so the time is ripe. Tony At 10:13 AM 12/11/01 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Tony, You old cynic, you. How's about if I get you into the Ostrich or Emufarmingbusiness? Good investment potential, you know. Yeah, I know, you guyshavebig birds over there, but these are genuine, transplanted to the USA Emu.There's a big difference. You might also consider collecting useless thingslike Beanie Babies, or just any old trading card. Hell, they've even gotBill Clinton trading cards now. People gobbled them right up . . . uh, noMonica innuendo intended here. M-D From: "Tony Young" But the differences between a Jag and a Dodge is tangible and eventhenplenty wouldn't think a Jag is any better than a Dodge and there is a difbetween a Maglite and plastic torch (flash lite) The maglite is a lotbetter than almost any other torch you could compare of the typeexcept the Pelican LED type ones which I like very much indeed.My beef is dealers and speculative buyers are controlling the market inways that aren't necessarily best for the craft. We're all aiming at making streamside jewelry otherwise the rods aren't up to scratch becausepeoplehave come to think of new rods in that way that while the older rods in all likeliness aren't even as good modern rods even when they are as neartoperfect as human hands can make.Don't get me wrong, in a way I guess that is how bamboo rods should bemade, nothing much else is really crafted in this world except instruments, but what I dislike is average used rods being sold for the same sort ofmoney as very nice new ones. They simply can't be worth the same asafishing rod.That's bad for the makers and it's bad for the craft. How can a rod that looks like that (that being no different to hundredsofother rods) sell for 4.5K? Who can say how well it'll cast becausenobodywill try.I tell you, if I ever wound up for some reason with rod worth anything like a Garrison etc I'd flog it off in a flash and think myself lucky to have it off my hands before the music stops and all these stupid prices fall asthey must and I'm the one still standing without a seat. I really like to use hand tools. I'm left handed so power tools are no funin the least and dangerous at the worst and there's nothing worse thanseeing a really nice tool under glass and the guy who owns it eitherwontsell because he's holding out for a better price or wont sell period, I'mnot talking genuine Baily planes here, just nice chisels, plane irons etc.All the decent stuff disapears, the everage stuff is all that's left theneven it becomes overpriced. Stamps were also like this. About 20 years ago there was an enormous degree of speculative stamp collecting. It was impossible to get certainstampsbecause they were either snapped up or they simply weren't worth thepricebeing asked. Sure enough the bottom fell out and things stabalised. Ireally hope that happens with rods sooner or later. Tony At 10:36 AM 12/11/01 -0500, k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: Well, Tony, two things come to mind. One is fads. I think much of thepresent craze to collect things is a fad. When I was young, I had an XKE; a Jaguar. I loved that car but when I got married, it went. Just not afamily car. In the 80's I decided I wanted to get an old one andrestoreit. I did and as I looked around for parts, I discovered a real explosion on restored cars was driving the prices up. One XKE that had beenburnedand pushed off a cliff in a movie was priced at $45,000. Thesituationdidn't last however and most people lost the desire for restoredcars. The cash value of my '70 XKE is about the same as what I paidin1984(not adjusted) after 17 years of inflation! Now on the other hand, there is flashlights. A plastic tube, plasticreflector, a really cheap switch and you are looking at $5 to $10. BuyaMag light, a plastic reflector, better switch and an aluminum tube and you are looking at $18 to $20 in Walmart's. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Dec 11 11:28:47 2001 fBBHSkt05343 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:28:46 - for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:28:27 - 1211122827; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:28:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube I think Harry must really be a Methodist posing as a Baptist for job securityreasons. Heresy friends, heresy! [:)] Far be it from me to have a dirty mind, but looking at >the subject line onthis thread of messages, it sure >is tempting to say something sarcastic. As a list rookie, I think this comment applies to the majority of messages tothis list! Kyle In a message dated Tue, 11 Dec 2001 9:02:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,Harry Boyd writes: Friends, Far be it from me to have a dirty mind, but looking at the subject line onthis thread of messages, it sure is tempting to say something sarcastic. Youknow, something like: "Well, I've found that a nice bottle of wine and a chicflick movie helps warm the old dip tube up." Signed,That guy who wasn't always a Baptist preacher from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 11 11:31:42 2001 fBBHVdt05661 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:31:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Nylon wraps I don't have a stable of them but the local golf course has about 50 running about on it.When I was in my teens I took time off from study and spent some time in an area of Queensland where there is a fence that runs for about 500 miles or more called the Dingo fence. On the Western side there are dingos in large numbers so it's cattle country with gianonomous spreads called cattle stations (ranches) literally bigger then a lot of countries and some a lot of countries put together, and you wont see a fence due to the size of these places so two things happen, one is there are annual stock musters which is why I was there and the other point of interest is the leather of the cattle is blemish free because there are no fences.On the Eastern side of the fence side is sheep country because dingos will bring down sheep but not cattle. The fence needs upkeep because sand drifts cover the fence so need digging back, pigs rip the fence to get through, fires take out posts, termites take out posts fires haven't taken out, floods erode the fence so the fence is hanging 20 feet off ground level and need to re fenced etc etc. To do this there are blokes who do nothing but cruise up and down their allotted side and length of the fence so there are roads on both sides of the fence. Now, to the point about emus. These things run pretty fast and they're really competitive so if you happen to be driving on your side of the fence and a mob of emu turn up on the other you're sure to have a race and because both sides have a good track to run along it's easy to do. The first time I saw this I started to go faster and faster and in the end we were doing about 45mph. Now they can't keep this up for as long as a Land Cruiser can so when they get a bit tired they sort of stop running in a straight line and begin wobbling along and sooner or later they hit the fence upon which all you see it a jumble of legs, wings necks etc in an explosion of emus. I laughed so hard the first time I saw this I very nearly rolled the vehicle into a dry creek which would have ended in tears I can tell you. The Emus sort of get up, dust them selves off and strut off in that dignified look you try to put on when you fart in the lift [:-)] Emu are also incredibly hard to kill. I shot one once while it was quartering away from me on a flat run with a 30-06 using Winchesterfactory ammo at a little more than 100 yards. I can't remember what Win used to call the projectiles but they were the hard jacket very exposed lead at the tip ones. Worked well for pigs etc so they weren't really what you'd call plinkers.It got hit in the wing and you could hear it was a solid hit. It staggered a few feet then went down, then tried to get back up again before dieing. The projectile penetrated the wing and barely made it to the lung.They do taste good. Tony At 11:55 AM 12/11/01 -0500, earsdws@duke.edu wrote: When you decide to clean out your emu (eam-you) coral, let me know. I have gottenaddicted to emu (eam-you) and ostrich. Those of you with cholesterol [or blubber]problems, you should try the stuff (just don't over cook, with no fat, it convertsto shoe leather rather quickly). (I won't admit to the particular malady that setme to eating the birds, though the Bosslady says it is a personality defect). Bonappetit, dws. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Dec 11 12:12:19 2001 fBBICIt07699 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:12:18 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: bumped in the night don't tell me,i missed the free cane and hock blades,and the lastest incantations for straight blanksand shop gremlin pacification... 8^)Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/11/01 at 11:50 AM Todd Talsma wrote: I can do that, but may I add it to the tips archive? Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Shhh!!Nobody tell Brad the big secret he missed, OK? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 11 13:23:13 2001 fBBJNDt11818 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:23:13 - Subject: Website rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Due to AOL taking a dump on a couple of their servers I have moved mywebpage to the address below. If you were linked to me please change the address to this one. I hope I don't have trouble with this server now. Let's see the first one mysteriously just disappeared (but that wasn't hard to figure that one out) and the second one the server crashed. Oh well they say 3rd timeis a charm right? I appreciate everyone's understanding in this problem and I appreciate all who emailed me to ask where I went. Well, I am back and I have added a couple things to the site.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Due to AOL taking adump on a couple of their servers I have moved my webpage to the address mysteriously just disappeared (but that wasn't hard to figure that one out) back and I have added a couple things to the site.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 11 13:33:30 2001 fBBJXTt13861 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:33:30 - Subject: Mailing address I know some of you guys who have written me before still have my oldaddress in Indiana if you have that and not the new one here is the Michigan address. I do not need anything else lost in the forwarding system of the USPS. I have a rod that is lost between NY and MI now for 3 weeks today. Here is the Michigan address. Bret Reiter11628 S. Lake Chapin Rd.Berrien Springs, MI. 49103 http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I know some of you guyswho have written me before still have my old address in Indiana if you have Michigan address. Bret Reiter11628 S. Lake Chapin Rd.Berrien Springs, MI. 49103 http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from dickay@alltel.net Tue Dec 11 13:46:28 2001 fBBJkSt15259 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:46:28 - srv.alltel.net Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:46:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Harry, We're talking about diptubes not dipsticksDick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Friends, Far be it from me to have a dirty mind, but looking at the subject line on this thread of messages, it sure is tempting to say something sarcastic. You know, something like: "Well, I've found that a nice bottle of wine and a chic flick movie helps warm the old dip tube up." Signed,That guy who wasn't always a Baptist preacher from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Dec 11 14:06:30 2001 fBBK6Ut16775 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:06:30 - Subject: Warming dip tube At most auto parts stores you can buy a dipstick that plugs into an outlet this serve the warming purpose? Take it's temp and dip away!! Pete from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Dec 11 14:45:34 2001 fBBKjXt20847 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:45:33 - Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:45:30 +0000 Subject: Re: bumped in the night I wish I had been bumped during the night ! Brad Love wrote: it appears that i got bumped sunday night,have i missed anything good? tiaBrad from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Dec 11 14:46:56 2001 fBBKktt21030 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:46:55 - for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:46:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Website Bret wrote:Let's see the first one mysteriously just disappeared (but that wasn't = I'm sorry to here you are having trouble with your websites. SincerelyAnd I'm sorry about your first website too.I'm NOT apologizing.Just empathy.:))But a least you had a website for a short time.And you told me you got orders from it too. Your words.On the other hand I made "O" dollars from my end of the bargain.Why, you ask? Well my the rod review in Fly Fish America was ( Oh wait =there was no review) but that one wasn't hard to figure out either.Dude, wrong place to bring it up, but that was your choice.Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Bret wrote:Let's see the first one mysteriously = disappeared (but that wasn't hard to figure that one out) Bret I'm sorry to here you are having trouble with = websites. SincerelyAnd I'm sorry about your first website =too.I'm NOT apologizing.Just empathy.:)) time.And you told me you got orders from it too. Your= words. the bargain.Why, you ask? Well my the rod review in Fly Fish = was ( Oh wait there was no review) but that one wasn't hard to figure = either.Dude, wrong place to bring it up, but that was = choice.Tony Miller www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from tball@sault.com Tue Dec 11 15:29:55 2001 fBBLTst27809 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:29:54 - 0000 Subject: grooved plane Got a grooved plane a few years ago. It has done a great job of comingclose while getting down to the nitty,gritty close tolerances. Have hada problem the last couple of years with getting the 60* angleconsistently. I did build a Medved style router fed beveler. Thoughtthat might be the problem, but could not prove to myself it was theculprit. I've got four rods to build in the next while and convincemyself to take the time to correct the problem now and not keep checkingmy angles. You may have already guessed. The groove was about .002difference on one side. Couldn't figure out why it wasn't consistent. Now I know. I'll sand off one side when I get the time. I may even tryplate glass and do some more sanding on the groove. Which would makemore sense? Tom from Trout Lake from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Dec 11 15:41:00 2001 fBBLext29454 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:40:59 - fBBLerW30302 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:40:54 -0600 Subject: Guide Spacing Formula Can someone give me the Formula for calculatingguide spacing.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from pohl@earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 16:30:58 2001 fBBMUvt07860 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:30:57 - id 16DvQE-0000xB-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:30:47 -0800 Subject: reel seats I've decided on a sliding ring type Venneri reel seat for my 1st rod. I needto decide on the wood and up/down lock.what are the pros and cons of up vs down lock seets? is any wood bettersuited for reel seats than others. I've got a Winston that has a maple reelseat that's turned moldy on me after the first year and i always let the rodget to room temp before wiping it down and putting it away, cork is crappytoo but that's besides the point.... -Mark from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 11 17:40:44 2001 fBBNeit10667 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:40:44 -0600 helo=default) id 16DwVp-0000qh-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:40:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Don't know that there is a formula, per se. You can use the Online Hexrodprogram to get a rough estimate, using a mathematical progression, butultimately the guides should be tuned for each rod. M-D Can someone give me the Formula for calculatingguide spacing.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Dec 11 17:57:50 2001 fBBNvnt11362 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:57:49 - for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:57:37 - 1211185736; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:57:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Hi Tony, I just pulled this out of the archives last night, the guide spacing formula from Art Port, and some interesting insights on spacing stripping guides from Russ of Golden Witch: Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination At 09:15 PM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote: Hank,I for one would appreciate this being posted. I have always found myself feeling a little lost here. ThanksChris W. -------------------------------------------------------------- Hank,Sure wish I had a scanner....Here goes, and I hope this isn't plagiarism. According to Dale Clemens youcan space your guides using the formula: B = n(t) + n(n-1)d-------2 where: B = the distance from the tip to the guide being placedn = the no of guides being placedt = the distance from the tip to the first guide It is a given that the first guide is placed 4 to 5" from the tipand the stripper (last) is placed 28" to 32" from the base of the reel seat.These are not etched in stone, they are just nos to get you started.The first thing we need to calculate is the "d", a constant for therod we are currently working on. This is the first step for any new set ofdimensions.As an example I'll use a 9' rod. You can opt to use a no of guidesthat equals the length of the rod in feet or one more or two more(if youselect badly you get a guide-on-the-ferrule, not a happy result of all thesecalculations)! tip-top-to-first-guide-distance of 4 1/2" (t=4.5), and a 30" distancefromthe butt of the rod to the stripper (last guide). Since this is a 9' rod (108") we subtract the 30 from the 108 andarrive at a guide "spread" of 78".The formula now becomes: 78 = 11(4.5) + 11(11-1)d---------2 and d=.52We now can use the customized-to-our-particular-rod formula. Guide 1 1(4.5) + 1(0)0.52 = 4.5"--------2 Guide 2 2(4.5) + 2(1)0.52 = 9.5"--------2 Guide 3 3(4.5) + 3(2)0.52 = 15.1"--------2 Guide 4 4(4.5) + 4(3)0.52 = 21.1"--------2 and so on with subsequent guides sitting at: 27.7"34.8"42.4"50.6"59.2"68.4" and78.1" length, the no of guides, the tiptop placement site, and thebutt-to-stripper distance. That "d" will enable the builder to place theguides in their best approximate settings for that blank.Dale Clemens gave credit to a Jeffrey Baehre of Depew NY fordeveloping the formula. I've shown the formula to any no of fellows I'vetaught to build rods and some are initially intimidated by its seemingcomplexity, but if you'll noodle around with it for 2 rod lengths you'll see that it's quite straightforward and actually "proves" itself by thestripper's landing at the very spot you selected for it in the first place!It's also a process that ought to lend itself to a quick-and-dirty computerprogram. Once in awhile you'll find a length which pays you back by landingthat damn guide SMACK on the ferrule; all you have to do is add one moreoruse one less guide for that length.The idea is to have a place to tape all your guides initially andthen you can move them around to "perfect" your design. I seldom have tomove any at all. Let me know if something doesn't make sense,Art Subject: Re: The truth of Guide Spacing Hi Max, Thank you for encouraging us move along, back to rod making and away = from the bickering. Max, I tend to be wordy. If you don't understand anything I say, =please ask and I'm sure someone more succinct than myself will be happy=to say, "Russ meant..." Guides & guide spacing are a lot like religion. Some folks like it =this way, some folks like it that way, almost everybody has at least a =little, some have way too much, and a few have none at all. (To Harry B. =- you can be a preacher and not have too much, I was thinking of a =couple of batty twin aunts when I wrote this. They run around "laying =hands" on everything and anything. Got a toaster than doesn't work? =They'll give it religion. It still won't work.) By starting a =discussion on guides, anyone's strongly held position is likely to =violate the fundamental beliefs of at least three other sects. Trying =to determine truth in matters of faith will lead to mayhem and =bloodshed. However, if we could all drop our guard for a day, admit =that we are first and foremost devotees of the List, then we could have =a nice ecumenical discussion on guides before reconvening later armed = My opinions (and nothing more): The tip most snake guide should be =4"-5" away from the tip top. The stripping guide for "spec" rods should =be roughly 28- 35 inches from the center of the reel seat - use your =judgement based on how heavy the rod is. You don't need to to guess =though if you are making the rod for yourself or a particular client who =can come over to test the rod. With the grip on the rod and no guides, =have the client close his eyes. Pretend he is in the middle of a =stream, the line has been cast out, the drift completed, and the line is =now straight away from him downstream. Have the client lift the rod tip=to prepare for the first back cast. His line hand should almost =naturally come up to "grab" the imaginary line just below the imaginary =and ideally placed stripper (if it doesn't, then encourage him to make a =short "haul" with his back cast). Your job is to tell him to freeze =when the rod is around 10 O'clock and his line hand is near the rod. =Now imagine a straight line drawn between the line hand and the rod. =Mark the rod at the intersection of this line. Go two inches further up =the blank and put your stripping guide there. For myself, this usually =winds up being 24"-26" from the center of the reel seat, but I'm a =fellow who has been genetically deprived of a heroic stature. The =stripping guide may look like it is a notch too close to the grip. If =this offends your sense of aesthetics, propriety, tradition, or =whatever, then slide if further out. If you leave it where the =experiment determined it should be, the rod will be a comfortable one = have to stretch to re-grasp it as the line will hang just at the = The rest of the guides should be placed in a growing progression = from the stripper to the tip top. Dale Clemen's book "Advanced Custom =Rod Building" has some charts to help with the math of using even =progressions to space guides. I used these for a while, but now I =generally just eyeball the guides. I use one guide (not counting the =tip top) for every foot, or partial foot, of the rod length plus one =more, e.g., 8' rods get nine, 8' 6" rods get ten. I used to use two =extra, which made for good line control, but too many folks complained = Now tape the guides in place according to your progression. String =up the rod and tie the line to your kitchen table (or your car bumper if =your wife is at home). Have your client hold it and put an arc in the =rod, as though he were fighting a reasonable fish for the rod. Look at =the line. If there are flat spots you need the guides to be closer =together so that the line follows the bend of the rod fairly closely. =Different actions of rods require different spacing. If you have a real =noodle of a rod, you may have to add a guide in order to avoid flat =spots. If you have built the cane equivalent of steel rebar, you cane =skip a few guides and the line will still follow the blank. Once you've =adjusted the guides and re-taped them you can test cast the rod. =Honestly, I don't bother. I know I've got the stripper placed correctly = time to go back to work and wrap the rod. Russ In a message dated Tue, 11 Dec 2001 4:41:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,Tony Spezio writes: Can someone give me the Formula for calculatingguide spacing.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Tue Dec 11 18:06:57 2001 fBC06ut11759 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:06:56 - id fBC06sZ08638; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:06:54 +0900 (JST) id JAA01545; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:06:53 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Tony, Try this one. http://www.rodrack.net/guidespace.html Max Can someone give me the Formula for calculatingguide spacing.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from channer@frontier.net Tue Dec 11 18:35:11 2001 fBC0ZAt12600 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:35:10 - Subject: Re: Warming the dip tube Who says the leopard can't change his spots, LOLjohn Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, Far be it from me to have a dirty mind, but looking at the subject line onthis thread of messages, it sure is tempting to say something sarcastic. Youknow, something like: "Well, I've found that a nice bottle of wine and a chicflick movie helps warm the old dip tube up." Signed,That guy who wasn't always a Baptist preacher from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 11 19:32:55 2001 fBC1Wst13789 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:32:54 - for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:32:17 - Subject: website Let's see did I mention that you, Tony Miller made the first website and then tore it down because of your impatience? The answer to that was NO and didI slam you on the list? NO again. You do not give anything a chance to get done. You do not just submit something to a magazine and then BAM it is in there the next day. They have to read it, review it, and then accept it. Then they edit it and then it gets put in the magazine at a time when they deem fit. And yes you did get something for this but I do not keep score like you do on everything and I do not think everyone on the list is out to f--k you like you do. I looked at your rods and gave you an honest opinion on what was good and what you should work on, and I gave you what I thought was a fair pricing for what you should charge for your rods and I also told many people on the list that what you were doing was pretty good stuff. You do not just build two rods and get $1100.00-$1300.00 for them you have topay your dues and there are guys on the list that build a far superior rod than you and are asking a lot less than what you were. I told you that when I looked at the rods, they were OK but could not hold a candle to the rod I just got from Dave Leclair and the ones I have seen from some of the other builders on the list. I did not get any sales off your site that you put up and I have only gotten sales off the one that was up but got lost because of a server problem at AOL. Yes, your review was written and yes they have it at the magazine. You have asked me many things about many people on this list and you have made disparaging remarks about many of them as well. You have some idea that there are guys here that have little clicks and are trying to keep you out and down and not sell things to you like NS and other items. You also think that because someone asked about reelseats and you were not mentionedthat you were being slighted. Hell you have only been making reelseats for a couple of weeks or maybe a couple months and you think you should be recognized as being the best one out there. Tony I have done nothing but help you and offer you things for free and given you free stuff. I never asked me I did not ask you and you were the one that asked me to team up with you to pit ourselves against other guys on the list for a business proposition. I never asked you for these things and I never replied about doing the business thing because I like these guys you think are out to get you. You see Tony, I am not here to make a name for myself nor am I here to havea thriving rod business going. I don't care about that stuff. I made the 1st sanding blocks for guys because I thought it was a nice easy way to work on sanding the blanks. I made the ovens because no one is making anything like them and guys have been howling on the list for a long time about charcoaling their strips and wasting cane so I thought I would offer them a nice oven. I made the cradle for guys to be able to work on their culms easier for when they are filing nodes here again because no one is making them and I thought guys would like them. I am also working on making the silk line drier because NO ONE is making one of those either. I will tell you what you can have all 4 of those ideas if you want them and I will just go back to fishing and puttering around with rod building and restoring like I have for the last 25+ years. You see I do not need this shit and I will not put up with anyone like you trying to make me look bad. Grow up Tony and quit crying about everything like you have to me for the past 6 months. I thought you were a cool dude but I have found out different in this time. Yes, there are people I do not like very much but I am respectful to them and I still try and be nice to them as well, and I do not think they are out to get me either. I do not dislike you and I do not think you are a bad person but you need to quit thinking that the world is out to get you and you need to just go with the flow and quit belly aching. This is the last thing I will say to you about this and I only put it on the list because you chose to do it first. I reiterate I did not at any time tell anyone that you were the one who built the 1st site and chose to tear itdown in a temper tantrum. Like Jack Kirby of Marvel Comics always said. and I quote, "NUFF SAID!" BretLet's see did I mentionthat you, Tony Miller made the first website and then tore it down because of something for this but I do not keep score like you do on everything and I do your rods and gave you an honest opinion on what was good and what youshould work on, and I gave you what I thought was a fair pricing for what youshould charge for your rods and I also told many p! do not just build two rods and get $1100.00-$1300.00 for them you have topay your dues and there are guys on the list that build a far superior rod when I looked at the rods, they were OK but could not hold a candle to the rodI just got from Dave Leclair and the ones I have seen from some of the otherbuilders on the list. I did not get any sales off your site that you put up and I have only gottensales off the one that was up but got lost because of a server problem at list and you have made disparaging remarks about many of them as clicks and are trying to keep you out and down and not sell things to you like Hell you have only been making reelseats for a couple of weeks or maybe acouple months and you think you should be recognized as being the best oneout there. Tony I have done nothing but help you and offer you things for YOU are the one wh!o volunteered to make that site for me I did not ask you and you were theone that asked me to team up with you to pit ourselves against other guys things and I never replied about doing the business thing because I like these You see Tony, I am not here to make a name for myself nor am I here to have made the 1st sanding blocks for guys because I thought it was a nice easyway to work on sanding the blanks. I made the ovens because no one ismaking anything like them and guys have been howling on the list for a longtime about charcoaling their strips and wasting cane so I thought I would on their culms easier for when they are filing nodes here again because no working on making the silk line drier because NO I will tell you what you can have all 4 of those ideas if you want them and I willjust go back to fishing and puttering around with rod building and restoring will not put up with anyone like you trying to make me look bad. Grow up Tony and quit crying about everything like you have to me for the I am respectful to them and I still try and be nice to them as well, and I donot think they are out to get me either. I do not dislike you and I do not thinkyou are a bad person but you need to quit thinking that the world is out to This is the last thing I will say to you about this and I only put it on the list anyone that you were the one who built the 1st site and chose to tear itdown in a temper tantrum. Like Jack Kirby of Marvel Comics always said. and I quote, "NUFF SAID!" Brethttp://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 11 19:49:45 2001 fBC1nit14297 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:49:44 - Subject: In awe I am sitting here in awe at the rod I just received from Dave Leclair! I have not seen to many rods that I can put in this category but if you have never seen his work you should try. I am really impressed by the quality of the workmanship and the whole rod in general. It is so incredible I am almost afraid to fish it. Almost I said I will trying it out tomorrow on the river here behind the house. I will post some pictures of the rod when I get a chance and I will try and get some close-ups of the reelseat he made for this rod. He told me when he was making it that he was working on a new reelseat design and it is really cool. I know Dave makes some fine items also for rod building and if you ever need anything that he has he is great to work with too. I must say one more thing; Dave thanks for the incredible rod you have made for me!!!!!!Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I am sitting here in awe rods that I can put in this category but if you have never seen his work you chance and I will try and get some close-ups of the reelseat he made for this items also for rod building and if you ever need anything that he has he is the incredible rod you have made for me!!!!!!Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from harms1@pa.net Tue Dec 11 21:03:05 2001 fBC335t15695 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:03:05 - Subject: Re: reel seats Mark, You may hear other opinions on this, but I don't believe there are any "prosand cons" in comparing the uplock to the downlock reel seat. I think eachworks equally well, and that the issue is purely a matter of taste. Iprefer the downlock, but only because that's what my eye likes. As to wood choices, again, I do not believe there are any that are better orworse than another--at least as to species. Various woods certainly havedifferent characteristics, but this is more important to luthiers orfurniture makers than it is to rod makers. We have used everything frombalsa to ebony. It's all just fine. The maple seat that you say has become moldy is a new one on me. I neverheard of a piece of wood go moldy just because it was one species oranother. Individual blocks of wood must be properly dried before turningand finishing, and perhaps this was not done. But whatever the cause maybe, it is not because the wood happens to be maple. Maple makes excellentreel seats, and has always been highly prized as stock material for the oldflintlocks rifles. I would choose the wood you like to look at, dry it well, finish it nicely,and let that be the end of your worries. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: reel seats I've decided on a sliding ring type Venneri reel seat for my 1st rod. I need to decide on the wood and up/down lock.what are the pros and cons of up vs down lock seets? is any wood bettersuited for reel seats than others. I've got a Winston that has a maple reel seat that's turned moldy on me after the first year and i always let the rod get to room temp before wiping it down and putting it away, cork is crappytoo but that's besides the point.... -Mark from harms1@pa.net Tue Dec 11 21:08:33 2001 fBC38Xt16012 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:08:33 - Subject: Re: bumped in the night Wow! Brad got bumped on Sunday night and he's worried that he missedsomething good1 What's the matter with that boy?! I was on the damncomputer Sunday night, but I'd much rather have gotten bumped! cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: bumped in the night I wish I had been bumped during the night ! Brad Love wrote: it appears that i got bumped sunday night,have i missed anything good? tiaBrad from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 21:13:59 2001 fBC3Dvt16296 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:13:57 - ([209.178.136.10] helo=g2t8c9) id 16DzqD-0003hp-00; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:13:54 -0800 Subject: Re: website Hmmm!...Bret, I thought we were trying to clean up the list as you suggested? Please = I hope the rest of us will not waste our time responding to something =that is rather distasteful. To hear private conversations revealed in =such a public form is rather "BAD FORM" Adam No offense my friends Let's see did I mention that you, Tony Miller made the first website =and then tore it down because of your impatience? The answer to that =was NO and did I slam you on the list? NO again. You do not give =anything a chance to get done. You do not just submit something to a =magazine and then BAM it is in there the next day. They have to read =it, review it, and then accept it. Then they edit it and then it gets =put in the magazine at a time when they deem fit. And yes you did get =something for this but I do not keep score like you do on everything and =I do not think everyone on the list is out to f-- k you like you do. I =looked at your rods and gave you an honest opinion on what was good and =what you should work on, and I gave you what I thought was a fair =pricing for what you should charge for your rods and I also told many p! =eople on the list that what you were doing was pretty good stuff. You =do not just build two rods and get $1100.00-$1300.00 for them you have =to pay your dues and there are guys on the list that build a far =superior rod than you and are asking a lot less than what you were. I =told you that when I looked at the rods, they were OK but could not hold =a candle to the rod I just got from Dave Leclair and the ones I have =seen from some of the other builders on the list. I did not get any sales off your site that you put up and I have only =gotten sales off the one that was up but got lost because of a server =problem at AOL. Yes, your review was written and yes they have it at =the magazine. You have asked me many things about many people on this =list and you have made disparaging remarks about many of them as well. =You have some idea that there are guys here that have little clicks and =are trying to keep you out and down and not sell things to you like NS =and other items. You also think that because someone asked about =reelseats and you were not mentioned that you were being slighted. Hell =you have only been making reelseats for a couple of weeks or maybe a =couple months and you think you should be recognized as being the best =one out there. Tony I have done nothing but help you and offer you =things for free and given you free stuff. I never asked for anything in =return YOU are the one wh! o volunteered to make that site for me I did =not ask you and you were the one that asked me to team up with you to =pit ourselves against other guys on the list for a business proposition. =I never asked you for these things and I never replied about doing the = You see Tony, I am not here to make a name for myself nor am I here to =have a thriving rod business going. I don't care about that stuff. I =made the 1st sanding blocks for guys because I thought it was a nice =easy way to work on sanding the blanks. I made the ovens because no one =is making anything like them and guys have been howling on the list for =a long time about charcoaling their strips and wasting cane so I thought =I would offer them a nice oven. I made the cradle for guys to be able =to work on their culms easier for when they are filing nodes here again =because no one is making them and I thought guys would like them. I am =also working on making the silk line drier because NO ONE is making one = I will tell you what you can have all 4 of those ideas if you want =them and I will just go back to fishing and puttering around with rod =building and restoring like I have for the last 25+ years. You see I do =not need this shit and I will not put up with anyone like you trying to =make me look bad. Grow up Tony and quit crying about everything like you have to me for =the past 6 months. I thought you were a cool dude but I have found out =different in this time. Yes, there are people I do not like very much =but I am respectful to them and I still try and be nice to them as well, =and I do not think they are out to get me either. I do not dislike you =and I do not think you are a bad person but you need to quit thinking =that the world is out to get you and you need to just go with the flow =and quit belly aching. This is the last thing I will say to you about =this and I only put it on the list because you chose to do it first. I =reiterate I did not at any time tell anyone that you were the one who =built the 1st site and chose to tear it down in a temper tantrum. Like Jack Kirby of Marvel Comics always said. and I quote, "NUFF =SAID!" Bret Hmmm!...Bret, I thought we were trying to clean up = you suggested? Please take it off the list Bret. I hope the rest of us will not waste = conversations revealed in such a public form is rather "BAD =FORM" Adam No offense my friends ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, = PMSubject: website Let's see= that you, Tony Miller made the first website and then tore it down = = a magazine and then BAM it is in there the they edit it and then it gets put in the magazine at a time when they = you do on everything and I do not think everyone on the list is out to = what was good and what you should work on, and I gave you what I = fair pricing for what you should charge for your rods and I also told = eople on the list that what you were doing was pretty good = not just build two rods and get $1100.00-$1300.00 for them you have to = your dues and there are guys on the list that build a far superior rod = looked at the rods, they were OK but could not hold a candle to the = got from Dave Leclair and the ones I have seen from some of the other = on the list.I did not get any sales off your site that you put = I have only gotten sales off the one that was up but got lost because = = list and you have made disparaging remarks about many of them as = You have some idea that there are guys here that have little clicks = trying to keep you out and down and not sell things to you like NS and = making reelseats for a couple of weeks or maybe a couple months and = you should be recognized as being the best one out there. Tony I have = the one wh! o volunteered to make that site for me I did not ask you = were the one that asked me to team up with you to pit ourselves = things and I never replied about doing the business thing because I = to make a name for myself nor am I here to have a thriving rod = blocks for guys because I thought it was a nice easy way to work on = the blanks. I made the ovens because no one is making anything like = guys have been howling on the list for a long time about charcoaling = strips and wasting cane so I thought I would offer them a nice = made the cradle for guys to be able to work on their culms easier for = they are filing nodes here again because no one is making them and I = because NO ONE is making one of those = I will tell you what you can have all 4 of those ideas if you = them and I will just go back to fishing and puttering around with rod = this shit and I will not put up with anyone like you trying to make me = bad.Grow up Tony and quit crying about everything like you = much but I am respectful to them and I still try and be nice to them = and I do not think they are out to get me either. I do not dislike you = do not think you are a bad person but you need to quit thinking that = is out to get you and you need to just go with the flow and quit belly = not at any time tell anyone that you were the one who built the 1st = chose to tear it down in a temper tantrum.Like Jack Kirby of = Comics always said. and I quote, "NUFF =SAID!"Brethttp://bretsovens.bravepages.c= from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Dec 11 21:34:00 2001 fBC3Xxt16932 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:33:59 - ([209.178.136.10] helo=g2t8c9) id 16E09c-0000Cz-00; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:33:56 -0800 Subject: Re: reel seats Could the mold actually be in the rod sock? I know it would love to livethere all warm and toasting between those fibres. AdamVigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: reel seats Mark, You may hear other opinions on this, but I don't believe there are any "pros and cons" in comparing the uplock to the downlock reel seat. I think eachworks equally well, and that the issue is purely a matter of taste. Iprefer the downlock, but only because that's what my eye likes. As to wood choices, again, I do not believe there are any that are better or worse than another--at least as to species. Various woods certainly havedifferent characteristics, but this is more important to luthiers orfurniture makers than it is to rod makers. We have used everything frombalsa to ebony. It's all just fine. The maple seat that you say has become moldy is a new one on me. I neverheard of a piece of wood go moldy just because it was one species oranother. Individual blocks of wood must be properly dried before turningand finishing, and perhaps this was not done. But whatever the cause maybe, it is not because the wood happens to be maple. Maple makes excellentreel seats, and has always been highly prized as stock material for the old flintlocks rifles. I would choose the wood you like to look at, dry it well, finish it nicely, and let that be the end of your worries. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark & Kathy Pohl" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 5:25 PMSubject: reel seats I've decided on a sliding ring type Venneri reel seat for my 1st rod. I need to decide on the wood and up/down lock.what are the pros and cons of up vs down lock seets? is any wood bettersuited for reel seats than others. I've got a Winston that has a maple reel seat that's turned moldy on me after the first year and i always let the rod get to room temp before wiping it down and putting it away, cork is crappy too but that's besides the point.... -Mark from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 11 22:16:26 2001 fBC4GOt22019 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:24 - Subject: Re: website I must say here the Tony mentioned here is not me. I don't know which Tony it is though nor do I especially care to take it further than it has.Just thought I'd mention that [:-)] Tony (this one anyhow) At 08:32 PM 12/11/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Let's see did I mention that you, Tony Miller made the first website and then tore it down because of your impatience? The answer to that was NO and did I slam you on the list? NO /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Dec 11 23:01:16 2001 fBC51Ft23058 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:01:15 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:01:04 - Subject: What about Stripping Guides? Its a bit chilly here tonight on the list, I'm sure its because most of you are away gettin' busy warming up your dip tubes. [:)] If not, I'm hoping that the most interesting topic of stripping guides will warm everyone up a bit. I have done my research on this, and I am still confused. I checked the archives, tips page, OEM websites, etc., and I am still unable to figure this out... what type of stripping guide should I use? I understand that agate/agatines are traditional and absolutely beautiful, and the Mildrum tungsten carbide rings look nice and seem to fit the bamboo style, but what about all the others? SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, Titanium Carbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't one of these other styles be an acceptable alternative to the agate/agatine or Mildrum style... List, please weight in! I know I will hear that it only matters what I like, but I really want to know what others do and why. I am sure some of you have read some of Charles Brooks works. He was only interested in the function of the rod, and could care less about the looks. He made his rods from glass blanks and used spinning rod guides for the strippers! I probably fall somewhere between this and the strict traditional view. Thanks for your insights, Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 11 23:45:07 2001 fBC5j6t23861 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:45:06 - (authenticated) Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:44:37 -0800 Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? Kyle, You guessed correctly. In the end what matters is your preferences. Allanyof us can do is share our own preferences with you. I like the way agateslook,but they are pretty delicate. Since I intend my rods to be fished more thanlooked at, I only offer agates as an option. I've had a couple broken, andreplaced them with the heavier metal guides. Many of the Carboloy-Mildrum type guides look clunky to me. REC sellsseveral different styles, and the one I like best has the lightest wire of themall. That's my personal favorite. I use size 8 on 2-4 wts., size 10 on 5- 6wts., and size 12 on anything larger. Though I haven't actually put theselightest style guides on the scale, I suspect that they weight 40%-60% lessthanthe heavier mildrum guides. I'm constantly amazed how heavy the metals we use on bamboo rods are.Sitting beside me right now are a coupla Payne 101 blanks, one with and onewithout ferrules. The weight difference is astounding. There simply must besomething lighter than NS tubes that would do the job as well. In the sameway,those Mildrum-look guides are HEAVY. A $2 Fuji guide would weight about1/8thwhat they do. Guess I ought to use Fuji guides, and reel seats too, if I'm allthat concerned about it. But I've got a lot of traditionalist in me. Besides, abamboo rod with a Fuji reel seat would never sell.... So I'll keep using thelighter all-metal stripping guides REC sells. Harry KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Its a bit chilly here tonight on the list, I'm sure its because most of youare away gettin' busy warming up your dip tubes. [:)] If not, I'm hoping thatthe most interesting topic of stripping guides will warm everyone up a bit. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flyfish@defnet.com Tue Dec 11 23:58:15 2001 fBC5wFt24199 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:58:15 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:58:14 -0500 Subject: Re: website Bret ,Why do you lie?Tonywww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Bret ,Why do you lie?Tonywww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from shane_person@telus.net Wed Dec 12 02:09:23 2001 fBC89Jt07076 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:09:23 - (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? Kyle,Were you planning to wander around your shop in the dark tonight?Shane KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Dec 12 02:31:24 2001 fBC8VNt07587 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:31:23 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:31:10 -0800 Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:31:08 GMT Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? FILETIME=[5A20CD80:01C182E7] Yep, the cold winds are a'blowin...Mildrum made a variety of carboloy guides in different weights.The Mildrum SRMC is a good light stripper guide. The fly line shoots well and they are almost indestructable. The TiCH strippers from GW look goodand work well. The agate/agatine guides were not used by the majority ofmakers. The agatine ones are a good deal tougher. A trap that many makers fall into in the early part of the learning curve is to use the fanciest and/or most expensive findings on their rods, I think in a attempt to make the 'clothes make the man' kind of thing. Use decent stuff that is not overpriced and is geared toward performance. This applies to guides,reelseats, cork, rodtubes. It unfortunately does not extend to ferrules as of yet as the aluminum or brass ferrules are not acceptable and compromise too much in reliability. Try to get past the '20 rod hump' and finish the first 100. The components are not what makes a rod worth a damn. As far as tradition goes, you would have to define whose tradition you are talking about. You can be comfortable at the Granger or Heddon level, about the same as the Leonard and better than the Garrison, not as good as the Payne.A.J. From: KyleDruey@aol.com Subject: What about Stripping Guides?Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:01:11 EST Its a bit chilly here tonight on the list, I'm sure its because most of youare away gettin' busy warming up your dip tubes. [:)] If not, I'm hoping thatthe most interesting topic of stripping guides will warm everyone up a bit.I have done my research on this, and I am still confused. I checked thearchives, tips page, OEM websites, etc., and I am still unable to figure thisout... what type of stripping guide should I use? I understand that agate/agatines are traditional and absolutely beautiful,and the Mildrum tungsten carbide rings look nice and seem to fit thebamboostyle, but what about all the others? SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, TitaniumCarbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't one of these other styles be anacceptable alternative to the agate/agatine or Mildrum style... List, pleaseweight in! I know I will hear that it only matters what I like, but I reallywant to know what others do and why. I am sure some of you have read some of Charles Brooks works. He wasonlyinterested in the function of the rod, and could care less about the looks.He made his rods from glass blanks and used spinning rod guides for thestrippers! I probably fall somewhere between this and the strict traditionalview. Thanks for your insights, Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from "Marty D. aka \"none" Wed Dec 12 04:39:14 2001 fBCAdEt08789 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:39:14 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 0.863232 secs); 12 Dec 200110:26:05 -0000 Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? I like Agate/Agateen , Tungsten Carbide and Chromed SS casting rod guidesonBamboo. Anything else belongs on graphite.All in 7mm-10mm (especially forAgate/Agateen) for any size rod. There is no need to go larger. I believe thesize of the stripping guide plays very little importance on distance casting.Smaller guides look better on Bamboo. Now of course this is just my opinion!Best, Marty KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Its a bit chilly here tonight on the list, I'm sure its because most of youare away gettin' busy warming up your dip tubes. [:)] If not, I'm hoping thatthe most interesting topic of stripping guides will warm everyone up a bit.I have done my research on this, and I am still confused. I checked thearchives, tips page, OEM websites, etc., and I am still unable to figure thisout... what type of stripping guide should I use? I understand that agate/agatines are traditional and absolutely beautiful,and the Mildrum tungsten carbide rings look nice and seem to fit thebamboostyle, but what about all the others? SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, TitaniumCarbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't one of these other styles be anacceptable alternative to the agate/agatine or Mildrum style... List, pleaseweight in! I know I will hear that it only matters what I like, but I reallywant to know what others do and why. I am sure some of you have read some of Charles Brooks works. He wasonlyinterested in the function of the rod, and could care less about the looks.He made his rods from glass blanks and used spinning rod guides for thestrippers! I probably fall somewhere between this and the strict traditionalview. Thanks for your insights, Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) from darrell@vFish.net Wed Dec 12 05:58:58 2001 fBCBwwt09523 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:58:58 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:58:56 -0600 Subject: RE: reel seats Bob's wood spacers are gorgeous. Ask him to pick a real purdy one for your"first time" experience. The up and down is a personal preference... or I think he has a dual bandseat so you have the best (or worst) of both worlds. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message----- Subject: reel seats I've decided on a sliding ring type Venneri reel seat for my 1st rod. I needto decide on the wood and up/down lock.what are the pros and cons of up vs down lock seets? is any wood bettersuited for reel seats than others. I've got a Winston that has a maple reelseat that's turned moldy on me after the first year and i always let the rodget to room temp before wiping it down and putting it away, cork is crappytoo but that's besides the point.... -Mark from splitcane@attbi.com Wed Dec 12 06:12:06 2001 fBCCC5t09838; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:38:32 +0000 +0000 Subject: Denver Dave's New E-Mail Address Hello All, Due to Excite filing Chapter 11 and pulling the plug on 4 millioncustomers I have a new e-mail address ( splitcane@attbi.com the same I sentthis mail with ) If you have been trying to contact me and your mail wasreturned, I apologize for the inconvenience and hope to hear from yousoon... * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net from dickay@alltel.net Wed Dec 12 07:01:21 2001 fBCD1Kt10616 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:01:20 - srv.alltel.net Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:01:19 -0600 Subject: Re: grooved plane Tom, I would think using plate glass and sandpaper to straighten up thegroove would make more sense.Dick Fuhrman Which would make more sense?Tom from Trout Lake from harms1@pa.net Wed Dec 12 07:18:55 2001 fBCDIst11030 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:18:55 - Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: What about Stripping Guides? "what type of stripping guide should I use?" "SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, Titanium Carbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't oneof these other styles be an acceptable alternative to the agate/agatine orMildrum style... " Well, the key word here is "acceptable." They will all work (ie., function)equally well, although I'm told that the ceramic insert type has thetoughest ring. That said, one has to wonder just how durable a ring needsto be for an ordinary flyrod. If you are double-hauling on a regular basis, using the same rod repeatedly,and frequently playing large steelhead, then I suppose the question would berelevant. Otherwise, the issue of durability seems a bit on the silly side,as all the stripping guides you mention are just fine. Moreover, becauseyou are a builder, if a particular stripping guide doesn't perform as youmight have hoped, you can always replace it. Perhaps a more important question ought to be one of ring size rather thanring composition. If you shoot line (whether hauling or not), then a ringsize of 10mm or larger seems preferable. I would say that the scale (orproportion) of the guide to the size of the rod would be important too, butthat's an issue of aesthetics. And, as you don't seem to mind much whattype of guide you use, the question of scale might not matter to you either. So, although you didn't want to hear this, you might as well simply followyour personal preference. For myself, I guess I'm a bit of a"traditionalist," so, thanks to a lot of great assistance from Tom Ausfeld,I am soon going to be making my own agate guides. Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) Oh man! I hope you meant this the other way around! cheers, Bill from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Dec 12 07:24:59 2001 fBCDOwt11320 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:24:58 - Subject: stripper guide ring??/ Whats the reliability/longevity of using a nickel silver (18%) ring in =the stripper guide?? Tom Whats the reliability/longevity of using a nickel = ring in the stripper guide?? Tom from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Dec 12 07:31:57 2001 fBCDVut11677 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:31:56 - 0000 Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? Kyle,Sorry, but I'm going to give you much of the same, use what you want. Afterall, its your rod! FWIW, I use agate, because I like the looks. I make them myself, becauseI'm insane. tom from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Dec 12 07:36:56 2001 fBCDatt11925 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:36:55 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ Tom, I had a 1930's vintage rod that had an all NS stripping guide. The rod had seen a lot of use and there was line wear evident in the guide... a wide, shallow groove pointing toward the line hand. Dropping a greased silk line in fine sand a few times would probably cut this deeply.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Whats the reliability/longevity of using a nickel silver (18%) ring in the stripper guide?? Tom -- > from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Dec 12 07:51:23 2001 Received: fBCDpMt12401 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 Dec 2001 18:51:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) 2001 18:51:06 -0000 Message-ID:From: "Jill and Tom "Reed Curry" References: Subject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ Date: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Reed, So, you're saying thatafter 70 years of fishing, a shallow groove?? That seems pretty good to me. Cc: Sent:Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:38 AM Subject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ Tom,I had a 1930's vintage rod that had an all NS stripping guide. The rodhad seen a lot of use and there was line wear evident in the guide... awide, shallow groove pointing toward the line hand. Dropping a greasedsilk line in fine sand a few times would probably cut this deeply.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Whats the reliability/longevity of using a nickel silver (18%) ring inthe stripper guide?? Tom -- from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Dec 12 08:11:35 2001 fBCEBYt13069 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:11:34 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ Tom, I'm just narrating an experience. I can't say that the rod had 70 years of fishing (it might have rested in a closet for forty years) but that it was fromthe '30s and had been fished hard at some time. Given that it hailed from the silk line period, I am attributing the wear to the silk line and its propensity to pick up abrasive particles when improperly used. PVC lines are considerably softer, are not greased, and thus are less likely to wear guides (I can't believe I'm saying this). I, personally, would not use NS stripper guides on any but a trout rod.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Reed,So, you're saying that after 70 years of fishing, a shallow groove?? Thatseems pretty good to me. tom----- Original Message -----From: Reed Curry Cc: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:38 AMSubject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ -- > from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Dec 12 09:23:14 2001 Received: from fBCFNEt15180 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 report: Aerodux resorcinol Message-ID: stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I'veglued up 2 rods with the new Aerodux resorcinol glue and I want to give thelist a brief report on my experiences. This is a two-part LIQUID resorcinolglue...both the resin and hardener are liquid. That was the main attraction ofthe glue for me, to get the strength of resorcinol without the walnut flourfiller. The resin appears the same as what we are used to, while the hardeneris a dark brown goo about the consistency of molasses. A secondary benefitis that it cures at any temp above 50F which means I can leave everything inthe basement shop even in winter. Aerodux is a product of Britain so it ispossible that some of our builders from that side of the pond are familiarwith it. It is imported into the US by CustomPak, and they list twoformulations on their website, a Medium and a Fast cure. (A web searchindicated that there is also a Slow cure which apparently CustomPak chosenot to import.) These are available in gallons for about $160. Since I didn'tneed a gallon, I resisted the urge to buy it until I found it on Aircraft Spruce'swebsite, in quart kits, for $65. When I received it, I was pleasantly surprisedto have a quart of each, hardener and resin. (I was expecting a quart total.)The cans were clearly marked as being packaged by Custom Pak. Thehardender had an "F" which I guessed meant it was the "Fast" cureformulation. I was hoping for the Medium cure but there was no choice orindication on the Aircraft Spruce page. There was no data sheet with theglue. I emailed Custom Pak to see if they would fax me one but they did notanswer. I have not pursued this yet. The CustomPak website says the shelflife is 1 year at 70F and something I read implies its considerably longer atlower temps. I mixed the glue by weight and applied it with a tooth brush as Inormally do. The mixed glue is fairly thick but spreads thinly. For the secondrod I added 10 percent denatured alcohol by weight to make it a little thinner.The glue does set up fairly fast. After binding you have a few minutes tostraighten, but just a few, before things stop moving. If you like taking a longtime to fiddle with the blank, this is not the glue for you. It would be aservice to the rodbuilding community if we could get access to this glue inthe Medium, or even better, the Slow cure formulations. The resulting gluelines are still the characteristic resorcinol plum brown, but they _seem_thinner and less noticible at this early stage than ordinary resorcinol gluelines. We will see what happens after a couple years. Summary: Advantages *Liquid hardener leads to thinner glue lines * Cures at cool temps * Long shelflife if kept refrigerated * General resorcinol toughness Disadvantages * Fastsetup time (esp for "Fast" formulation) * Fairly expensive * Those darkresorcinol glue lines ...................................................................... FrankStetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better stetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproofcoat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin- Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. >Fromflyfish@defnet.com Wed Dec 12 09:34:49 2001 Received: from KAA20738 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:34:46-0500 Message-ID: From: Subject: Re:website/ rods crooked LOL Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:35:52 - flyfish@defnet.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This arrogant? Yeah maybe:)) You showed me nothing you made that could touchmy TWO rods. Not even by a mile. LOL Oh I forgot your rod with the taped onguides LOL (that was cool ,have = they fallin off yet?) Don't be mad I havetalent AND YOU DON'T! Quit spreading those lies Dude 80% of your spew isjust that. I won't say 100 % there is some slight truth in what you say. I'mnot gonna be a hypocrite. The only thing that wasn't a lie in your last postwas the part about = you not making those ovens. That was the truth, youdon't make them. I could easily defend your slander, but I know these guysdon't want to = hear it. Thank you for not emailing me anymore, I waswondering when you would = get the hint. Took you long enough. Are youfinished yet or are you gonna say I beat = my dog too. I thought you wrappedit up in your last post(another Lie?) Can you keep your word on anything?Here I'll show you how, This is my last post on the subject. And like DennisHopper said about Kurtz in Apocalypse Now. "And he Meant it" Tony MillerSorry list, pretty hard to ignore personal attackswww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html ------ BODY {BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT } Am Iarrogant? Yeah maybe:)) You showed me nothing you made that have talent AND YOU DON'T! Quit spreading those liesDude 80% of your spew is just that. I won't say100 % there is some slight truth in what you say. I'm not gonnabe a hypocrite. The only thing that wasn't a lie in your last post hint. Took you long enough. Are you finished yet or are you in your last post(another Lie?) Can you keep your word onanything? Here I'll show you how, This is my last post on thesubject. And like Dennis Hopper said about Kurtz in ApocalypseNow. Miller Sorry list, pretty hard to ignore personal attackswww.homestead.com/= bambooshop/home.html - patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Dec 12 09:39:20 2001 Received: from fBCFdKt16162 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:39:14 -0800 Message- Subject: help with math Date: Wed, 12 Dec patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN wouldsome one better at math than I am, explain to me how you get d=.52 from11(11-1)d 2 Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425- 234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 > from avyoung@iinet.net.auWed Dec 12 09:40:31 2001 Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (symphony- X-Sender:avyoung@mail.iinet.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu From: Tony Young rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Frank, do you have the phonenumber of these guys at all? I ask because they also have a 2 part liquid UFthat I've used in the past. A Brit boat maker had some. You applied one ofeach part to each surface then clamp them. The stuff is brilliant for cabinetand general work though prob not much use for rods. I would expect theresorcinol to be top class. I faxed them in the UK to within an inch of theirlives with no response but I don't have a phone number. I'd like to run theseguys to ground if I can. Tony At 09:23 AM 12/12/01 -0600, Frank Stetzerwrote: I've glued up 2 rods with the new Aerodux resorcinol glue and Iwant to give the list a brief report on my experiences. This is a two-part LIQUID resorcinol glue...both the resin andhardener are liquid. That was the main attraction of the glue flour filler. The resin appears the same as what we are used to,while the hardener is a dark brown goo about the consistency ofmolasses. A secondary benefit is that it cures at any temp above 50F whichmeans I can leave everything in the basement shop even in winter. Aerodux is a product of Britain so it is possible that some ofour builders from that side of the pond are familiar with it.It is imported into the US by CustomPak, and they list twoformulations on their website, a Medium and a Fast cure. (A websearch indicated that there is also a Slow cure which apparentlyCustomPak chose not to import.) These are available in gallons forabout $160. Since I didn't need a gallon, I resisted the urge tobuy it until I found it on Aircraft Spruce's website, in quart kits, When I received it, I was pleasantly surprised to have a quart ofeach, hardener and resin. (I was expecting a quart total.) Thecans were clearly marked as being packaged by Custom Pak. Thehardender had an "F" which I guessed meant it was the "Fast" cureformulation. I was hoping for the Medium cure but there was nochoice or indication on the Aircraft Spruce page. There was no data sheet with the glue. I emailed Custom Pak to seeif they would fax me one but they did not answer. I have notpursued this yet. The CustomPak website says the shelf life is1 year at 70F and something I read implies its considerably longerat lower temps. I mixed the glue by weight and applied it with a tooth brush as Inormally do. The mixed glue is fairly thick but spreads thinly. to make it a little thinner. The glue does set up fairly fast. After binding you have a few minutesto straighten, but just a few, before things stop moving. If you liketaking a long time to fiddle with the blank, this is not the glue foryou. It would be a service to the rodbuilding community if we couldget access to this glue in the Medium, or even better, the Slow cureformulations. The resulting glue lines are still the characteristic resorcinol plumbrown, but they _seem_ thinner and less noticible at this early stagethan ordinary resorcinol glue lines. We will see what happens aftera couple years. Summary:Advantages* Liquid hardener leads to thinner glue lines* Cures at cool temps* Long shelf life if kept refrigerated* General resorcinol toughness Disadvantages* Fast setup time (esp for "Fast" formulation)* Fairly expensive* Those dark resorcinol glue lines ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 12 09:45:10 2001 fBCFj8t16730 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:45:09 - Subject: Re:website/ rods crooked LOL This is getting weird. Where's TA? At 10:35 AM 12/12/01 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: Am I arrogant? Yeah maybe:))You showed me nothing you made that could touch my TWO rods. from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Dec 12 09:48:56 2001 fBCFmtt17081 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:48:55 - HAA18552 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:47:26 - HAA29860 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:48:53 - fBCFmxt00068 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:48:59 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:48:52 -0800 Subject: RE: help with math that should be 11(11-1)d divided by 2 Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: help with math would some one better at math than I am, explain to me how you get d=.52 from 11(11-1)d 2 Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Dec 12 10:03:12 2001 fBCG3Ct17882 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:03:12 - Subject: Re: Glue report: Aerodux resorcinol Tony, No I don't have any info on the manufacturer. I once tracked downa barebones website but now I can't even find that. I did finda datasheet online at http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/aerodux_data.htm --Frank On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Tony Young wrote: Frank,do you have the phone number of these guys at all? I ask because they also have a 2 part liquid UF that I've used in the past. A Brit boat maker had some. You applied one of each part to each surface then clamp them. The stuff is brilliant for cabinet and general work though prob not much use I would expect the resorcinol to be top class.I faxed them in the UK to within an inch of their lives with no response but I don't have a phone number. I'd like to run these guys to ground if Ican. Tony from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 12 10:22:34 2001 fBCGMWt18963 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:22:32 - Subject: Re: Glue report: Aerodux resorcinol Thanks Frank, I'll start with that anyhow. You can never know too much about glues and who make them. Tony At 10:03 AM 12/12/01 -0600, Frank Stetzer wrote: Tony, No I don't have any info on the manufacturer. I once tracked downa barebones website but now I can't even find that. I did finda datasheet online at http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/aerodux_data.htm --Frank On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Tony Young wrote: Frank,do you have the phone number of these guys at all? I ask because theyalsohave a 2 part liquid UF that I've used in the past. A Brit boat maker hadsome. You applied one of each part to each surface then clamp them.Thestuff is brilliant for cabinet and general work though prob not much use I would expect the resorcinol to be top class.I faxed them in the UK to within an inch of their lives with no responsebut I don't have a phone number. I'd like to run these guys to ground if I can. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 12 10:27:53 2001 fBCGRrt19430 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:27:53 - Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Kyle,I used the Clemens formula for guide spacing for several years 'til I found the Orvis guide tables used the same formula for guide nos. that are x+1 where the x= the no. of feet of rod length plus any portion thereof (a 8.5' rod gets 10 guides where x = 9).Cheers,Hank, from alan.grombacher@pioneer.com Wed Dec 12 10:33:11 2001 fBCGXBt19911 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:33:11 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:33:08 -0500 id ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:33:00 -0600 Subject: moldy reel seat was RE: reel seats Hey Guys, Curious here in Alberta about Mark's maple reel seat getting moldy problem. I have a buddy, who after a week of fishing in the rain had the finish comeoff a reel seat insert. The situation was rain all day for a week,steelheading, graphite rod, not wiped down all that well (graphite rodsdon't get the same nice treatment as bamboo rods in general, IMHO), put inrod tube, went home and didn't take rod out of tube until a week after thetrip to B.C. The rod smelled like drift wood, but that reel seat is stillgoing strong with an oil finish now. Gierach in one of his books, talks about ruining a bamboo rod. He fishedCanada, water got in rod tube and rod turned into a smelly mass or ruinedbamboo. With my rods, my keep 'em nice procedure is:1) wipe it down after taking it a part. Put it in tube.2) get home. take out of tube. wipe it down. put on upper bookshelf.3) look at next day, maybe leave it on shelf for a couple of days laying onrod sack. The don't putting it in the tube after getting home stems from myMid-Western days of living in high humidity, and this is what my Dad said todo. In Alberta, with its no humidity, the dampness of the Mid-West is not aconcern. It sounds like Mark dries/stores rods in a similar manner. Any suggestionsto prevent a moldy reel seat? Cheers and thanks in advance, Alberta Al -----Original Message----- Subject: reel seats I've decided on a sliding ring type Venneri reel seat for my 1st rod. I needto decide on the wood and up/down lock.what are the pros and cons of up vs down lock seets? is any wood bettersuited for reel seats than others. I've got a Winston that has a maple reelseat that's turned moldy on me after the first year and i always let the rodget to room temp before wiping it down and putting it away, cork is crappytoo but that's besides the point.... -Mark from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Dec 12 10:35:57 2001 fBCGZut20279 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:35:56 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:35:51 - Subject: REC order With my recent problems with USPS and the things that are going on would everyone please let me know when you receive your orders so I can mark you off the list of people who ordered. Thanks,Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ With my recentproblems with USPS and the things that are going on would everyone pleaselet me know when you receive your orders so I can mark you off the list of http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Dec 12 10:47:46 2001 fBCGljt20952 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:47:45 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:47:32 - MAILINID76-1212114732; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:47:32 -0500 Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? I think that the only acceptable requirement for a stripping guide is that ifthe guide does strip they must be female [:)] (sorry, that was for Bill &Harry!) I'm eye-balling the Pay Bay Model T TiCH stripper with TiCH ring: http://www.fishpacbay.com/prod_gtfresh.html I can order one for $4, and if I don't like it when it comes in I can go inanother direction. Thanks all for your input. Kyle Bill - you just don't want to get bumped by a dipstick, we got our unfair shareo' dem out here on the West Coast! In a message dated Wed, 12 Dec 2001 8:19:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,"WILLIAM HARMS" writes: ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 12:01 AMSubject: What about Stripping Guides? "what type of stripping guide should I use?" "SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, Titanium Carbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't oneof these other styles be an acceptable alternative to the agate/agatine orMildrum style... " Well, the key word here is "acceptable." They will all work (ie., function)equally well, although I'm told that the ceramic insert type has thetoughest ring. That said, one has to wonder just how durable a ring needsto be for an ordinary flyrod. If you are double-hauling on a regular basis, using the same rod repeatedly,and frequently playing large steelhead, then I suppose the question wouldberelevant. Otherwise, the issue of durability seems a bit on the silly side,as all the stripping guides you mention are just fine. Moreover, becauseyou are a builder, if a particular stripping guide doesn't perform as youmight have hoped, you can always replace it. Perhaps a more important question ought to be one of ring size ratherthanring composition. If you shoot line (whether hauling or not), then a ringsize of 10mm or larger seems preferable. I would say that the scale (orproportion) of the guide to the size of the rod would be important too, butthat's an issue of aesthetics. And, as you don't seem to mind much whattype of guide you use, the question of scale might not matter to youeither. So, although you didn't want to hear this, you might as well simply followyour personal preference. For myself, I guess I'm a bit of a"traditionalist," so, thanks to a lot of great assistance from Tom Ausfeld,I am soon going to be making my own agate guides. Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) Oh man! I hope you meant this the other way around! cheers, Bill from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Dec 12 10:53:54 2001 fBCGrst21452 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:53:54 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:53:37 - Subject: An apology I apologize to the list that I attacked Tony Miller on here, but he had chosen to attack me first and I felt he deserved a response. I should have taken it off list like I have told others (which I have now) it is too bad that he is not mature enough to keep any other comments from the list. Thanks to all here who have written in support of me and what I said. At no time did I ever claim to be some great rod builder, as a matter of fact I don't even sell my rods and as most know I am just making the toolsbecause no one else is. I do not build the cabinets for the ovens they are made in a sheetmetal shop and I have never hidden that fact. I do not spin the wire either or make the thermostat etc. I buy all the components and assemblethem in my shop. Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I apologize to the listthat I attacked Tony Miller on here, but he had chosen to attack me first and told others (which I have now) it is too bad that he is not mature enough to At no time did I ever claim to be some great rod builder, as a matter of fact Idon't even sell my rods and as most know I am just making the tools because the wire either or make the thermostat etc. I buy all the components andassemble them in my shop. Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Dec 12 11:10:54 2001 fBCHAqt22290 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:10:52 - JAA02307; JAA15079; fBCHAot20051; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:10:42 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: HANDMILL CALC..xlsRE: Guide Spacing Formula this is a safe folder to open. fill in 3-8 in colum B and it auto calculates to clemens formul a this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Guide Spacing WorksheetRANGE_G1_U47RD LNGTH LN WT RD PCS GUIDE SZE/SPCNG GUIDE 1GUIDE 2 GUIDE 3 GUIDE 4 GUIDE 5 GUIDE 6GUIDE 7 GUIDE 8 GUIDE 9 GUIDE 10 GUIDE 11LENGTH 1ST 2ND 3RD 4TH 5TH 6TH 7TH 6'6" 2-4 2 GUIDE SPACING 4 1/2 9 15 2128 35 1/2 45 4/12' 41/2 10 1/2 19 28 Rod Length (feet) 9 GUIDE SIZE1 1 1 2 2 3 8MM5' 4 9 1/2 17 26 36 1/2 Rod Length (In.) (Calculated) 108 54 7' 2-42 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/4 16 1/2 23 3/16 30 1/4 371/2 45 3/4 55 1/2 5 1/2' 4 915 22 30 1/4 40 1/2 Butt to Stripper Distance (in.) 30 (28-32 Inches)GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 8MM6' 3 1/2 8 3/4 15 3/4 22 1/2 30 1/4 43 5/8 Number of Guides 11 (Length + 2) 7'6" 2-42 GUIDE SPACING 4 1/2 9 5/8 15 5/8 21 5/8 28 34 7/8 421/2 51 1/4 61 14 6 1/2' 5 11 1/8 171/4 24 1/8 31 1/2 49 1/4 Tip to 1st Guide 4.5 (4-4.5 inches)GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 410MM 7' 5 11 1/4 19 1/2 29 401/4 53 3/4 Constant (Calculated) 0.518182 7'9" 2-4 2-3GUIDE SPACING 4 5/8 9 5/8 15 3/8 22 29 1/8 38 46 7/8 561/4 65 3/4 7 1/2' 5 12 19 2839 1/2 54 GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 22 2 3 4 10MM 8' 511 1/2 19 27 1/2 37 47 1/4 57 3/4 Guide Distance 8' 2-5 2-3 GUIDE SPACING 41/2 9 3/8 15 1/2 22 1/4 30 1/2 38 1/2 47 3/4 56 1/2 668 1/2' 5 11 18 26 36 46 60 1 4 4/8GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 410MM 9' 5 11 1/4 19 1/4 28 3950 1/2 66 1/2 2 9 4/8 5 8'6"2-4 2 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/2 17 1/2 25 3/8331/4 41 7/8 51 60 5/8 71 3 15 5 4/8GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 410MM SPINNING RODS 4 21 1/8 6 8'6"5-6 2 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/2 17 1/2 25 3/8 331/4 417/8 51 60 5/8 71 5 27 5/8 6 5/8GUIDE SIZE 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 512MM 6 34 6/8 7 1/8 8'6"7-9 3 GUIDE SPACING 4 1/2 10 3/4 17 1/4 25 5/8 34 423/8 51 1/4 60 1/2 17 7 42 3/8 7 5/8GUIDE SIZE 3 3 3 4 4 5 512MM 16MM 8 50 4/8 8 1/8 8'9"3-5 2 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/2 16 22 1/8 28 1/2 351/4 43 1/4 52 1/4 62 3/8 73 1/4 9 59 1/8 8 5/8GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 34 10MM 10 68 3/8 9 1/8 8'9'3- 5 5 GUIDE SPACING 4 1/2 9 5/8 15 1/8 21 1/8 27 3/4 353/8 43 5/8 52 3/4 62 1/2 73 11 78 9 5/8GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 34 10MM - 0 9' 2-42 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/4 16 1/4 22 1/2 29 3/4 37 1/8 453/8 53 3/4 65 77 - 0GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 34 10MM - 0 9' 5-62 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/4 16 1/4 22 1/2 29 3/4 37 1/8 453/8 53 3/4 65 77 - 0GUIDE SIZE 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 45 12MM 9' 7-9 2 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/4 161/4 22 1/2 29 3/4 37 1/8 45 3/8 53 3/4 65 77 GUIDE SIZE 3 3 3 44 4 5 5 12MM 16MM 9' 10-13 2 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 1/4 16 1/4 221/2 29 3/4 37 1/8 45 3/8 53 3/4 65 77 GUIDE SIZE 4 4 4 55 5 6 6 16MM 20MM 9' 3-4 3 GUIDE SPACING 4 9 15 211/4 28 7/8 36 1/4 44 53 1/2 63 1/2 75 1/4 GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 22 2 3 3 4 10mm 9' 5-6 3 GUIDE SPACING 4 9 15 211/4 28 7/8 36 1/4 44 53 1/2 63 1/2 75 1/4 GUIDE SIZE 1 1 2 23 3 4 4 5 12MM 9' 7-9 3 GUIDE SPACING 4 9 15 211/4 28 7/8 36 1/4 44 53 1/2 63 1/2 75 1/4 GUIDE SIZE 3 3 3 44 4 5 5 12MM 16MM 9' 10-13 3 GUIDE SPACING 4 9 15 211/4 28 7/8 36 1/4 44 53 1/2 63 1/2 75 1/4 GUIDE SIZE 4 4 4 55 5 6 6 16MM 20MM 9' 4-6 4 GUIDE SPACING 4 1/2 9 14 1/8 203/16 27 3/8 34 7/8 43 7/8 53 3/4 64 5/8 76 1/2 GUIDE SIZE 1 1 2 23 3 4 4 5 12MM 9'6" 5-6 2 GUIDE SPACING 5 10 3/8 16 3/8 221/2 29 35 3/4 43 51 60 3/4 70 3/4 81 3/4 GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 22 3 3 4 4 5 12MM 9'6" 5-6 3 GUIDE SPACING 4 1/2 9 1/4 15 1/8 211/4 28 1/8 35 42 1/2 51 1/2 60 3/4 70 1/2 811/4 GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 22 3 3 4 4 5 12MM 10' 4-6 3 GUIDE SPACING 5 11 17 2329 7/8 37 1/4 46 3/8 55 5/8 65 1/2 75 1/2 865/8 GUIDE SIZE 1 1 1 22 3 3 4 4 5 12MM 10' 7-10 3 GUIDE SPACING 5 11 17 2329 7/8 37 1/4 46 3/8 55 5/8 65 1/2 75 1/2 865/8 GUIDE SIZE 3 3 3 44 4 5 5 5 12MM 16MM FLY RODS v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}x\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} guides 58600300 7560 2 331 FalseFalseFalse 6 26 4605940590301 FalseFalse GuideSpacing Worksheet RD LNGTHLN =WTRD =PCSGUIDE SZE/SPCNGGUIDE 1GUIDE 2GUIDE 3GUIDE 4GUIDE 5GUIDE 6GUIDE 7GUIDE 8GUIDE 9GUID=E 10GUIDE 11 LENGTH1ST2ND3RD4TH5TH6TH7TH 6'6"2-42GUIDE =SPACING4 1/2915212835 1/245 4/12'4 1/210 1/21928 Rod Length =(feet)9 GUIDE =SIZE1112238MM 5'49 1/2172636 1/2 Rod Length (In.) =(Calculated)108 54 7'2-42GUIDE =SPACING510 1/416 1/2 30 1/437 1/245 3/455 1/2 5 1/2'49152230 1/440 1/2 Butt to Stripper =Distance(in.)30 GUIDE =SIZE11122238MM 6'3 1/28 3/415 3/422 1/230 1/443 5/8 Number of =Guides11 7'6"2-42GUIDE =SPACING4 1/29 5/815 5/821 5/82834 7/842 1/251 1/461 =14 6 1/2'511 1/817 1/424 1/831 1/249 1/4 Tip to 1st =Guide4.5 GUIDE =SIZE1112223410MM 7'511 1/419 1/22940 1/453 3/4 Constant =(Calculated)0.518182 7'9"2-42-3GUIDE =SPACING4 5/89 5/8153/822291/838467/8561/4653/4 7 1/2'512192839 1/254 GUIDE =SIZE1112223410MM 8'511 1/21927 1/23747 1/457 3/4 GuideDistance 8'2-52-3GUIDE =SPACING4 1/29 3/8151/2221/4301/2381/2473/4561/266 8 1/2'5111826364660 1 4 4/8 GUIDE =SIZE1112223410MM 9'511 1/419 1/428 50 1/266 1/2 2 9 4/8 8'6"2-42GUIDE =SPACING5101/2 171/2253/8331/4417/851605/871 3 5 4/8 GUIDE =SIZE1112223410MM SPINNING =RODS 4 21 1/8 8'6"5-62GUIDE =SPACING510 1/217 1/225 3/833 1/441 7/85160 5/871 5 27 5/865/8 GUIDE =SIZE1122334512MM 6 34 6/871/8 8'6"7-93GUIDE =SPACING4 1/210 3/417 1/425 5/83442 3/851 1/460 1/217 7 42 3/875/8 GUIDE =SIZE333445512MM16MM 8 50 4/881/8 8'9"3-52GUIDE =SPACING510 1/21622 1/828 1/235 1/443 1/452 1/462 3/873 1/4 9 59 1/885/8 GUIDE =SIZE11122233410MM 10 68 3/891/8 8'9'3-55GUIDE =SPACING4 1/29 5/815 1/821 1/827 3/435 3/843 5/852 3/462 1/273 11 9 5/8 GUIDE =SIZE11122233410MM 9'2-42GUIDE =SPACING510 1/416 1/422 1/229 3/437 1/845 3/853 3/46577 GUIDE =SIZE11122233410MM 9'5-62GUIDE =SPACING510 1/416 1/422 1/229 3/437 1/845 3/853 3/46577 GUIDE =SIZE11223344512MM 9'7-92GUIDE =SPACING510 1/416 1/422 1/229 3/437 1/845 3/853 3/46577 GUIDE =SIZE3334445512MM16MM 9'10-132GUIDE =SPACING510 1/416 1/422 1/229 3/437 1/845 3/853 3/46577 GUIDE =SIZE4445556616MM20MM 9'3-43GUIDE =SPACING491521 1/428 7/836 1/44453 1/263 1/275 1/4 GUIDE =SIZE11122233410mm 9'5-63GUIDE =SPACING491521 1/428 7/836 1/44453 1/263 1/275 1/4 GUIDE =SIZE11223344512MM 9'7-93GUIDE =SPACING491521 1/428 7/836 1/44453 1/263 1/275 1/4 GUIDE =SIZE3334445512MM16MM 9'10-133GUIDE =SPACING491521 1/428 7/836 1/44453 1/263 1/275 1/4 GUIDE =SIZE4445556616MM20MM 9'4-64GUIDE =SPACING4 1/2914 1/8 27 3/834 7/843 7/853 3/464 5/876 1/2 GUIDE =SIZE11223344512MM 9'6"5-62GUIDE =SPACING510 3/816 3/822 1/22935 3/4435160 3/470 3/481 3/4 GUIDE =SIZE111223344512MM 9'6"5-63GUIDE =SPACING4 1/29 1/415 1/821 1/428 1/83542 1/251 1/260 3/470 1/281 1/4 GUIDE =SIZE111223344512MM 10'4-63GUIDE =SPACING511172329 7/837 1/446 3/855 5/865 1/275 1/286 5/8 GUIDE =SIZE111223344512MM 10'7-103GUIDE =SPACING511172329 7/837 1/446 3/855 5/865 1/275 1/286 5/8 GUIDE =SIZE33344455512MM16MM FLY RODS from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 12 11:11:46 2001 fBCHBjt22391 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:11:45 - Subject: Re: Hollow building and Milward Adam,Wall thickness is not the only factor involved in hollow building. Density of power fibers is a factor, too.Cheers,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 12 11:11:51 2001 fBCHBot22399 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:11:50 - Subject: RE: the Morgan handmill Chris,Right on!Hank.P.S. Not AT but you and Per, from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 12 11:12:23 2001 fBCHCLt22598 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:12:21 - Subject: RE: help with math Patrick,That formula was for a 9' rod with 11 guides i.e. 78=4.5(11)+11(10)d/2or 55d =78- 49.5 or d = 28.5/55= .52 Hope this helps.Hank. from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Dec 12 11:24:34 2001 fBCHOPt24815 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:24:25 - JAA26913; JAA26189; fBCHOLt15297; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:24:14 -0800 Subject: safe Clemens guide spacing file. this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. just fill in the colored numbers and it will auto calculate.couldn't get the last posting to send the formulas with it, not much of atechnocrat. be sure to enable macros Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from stoltz10@attbi.com Wed Dec 12 11:29:26 2001 fBCHTPt25290 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:29:25 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:29:19 +0000 +0000 Subject: Re: safe Clemens guide spacing file. Thanks for posting this Patrick it will be very usefull. Tim from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Dec 12 11:32:53 2001 fBCHWqt25691 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:32:52 - 0000 Subject: Re:website/ rods crooked LOL Please, I'm begging now.... STOP!!!! Take it off list!!!!!! Or there =will "time out" time for the both of you. I'm talking grounded mister. =Do you hear me!!! tom Subject: Re:website/ rods crooked LOL Am I arrogant? Yeah maybe:))You showed me nothing you made that could touch my TWO rods.Not even by a mile. LOLOh I forgot your rod with the taped on guides LOL (that was cool ,have =they fallin off yet?)Don't be mad I have talent AND YOU DON'T!Quit spreading those lies Dude80% of your spew is just that.I won't say 100 % there is some slight truth in what you say.I'm not gonna be a hypocrite.The only thing that wasn't a lie in your last post was the part about =you not making those ovens. That was the truth, you don't make them.I could easily defend your slander, but I know these guys don't want =to hear it.Thank you for not emailing me anymore, I was wondering when you would =get the hint.Took you long enough. Are you finished yet or are you gonna say I beat =my dog too.I thought you wrapped it up in your last post(another Lie?)Can you keep your word on anything?Here I'll show you how, This is my last post on the subject.And like Dennis Hopper said about Kurtz in Apocalypse Now."And he Meant it"Tony MillerSorry list, pretty hard to ignore personal attackswww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no- repeat;COLOR: =#000000; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT; FONT-SIZE: 12pt} talking grounded mister. Do you hear me!!! tom ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Wednesday, December 12, = AMSubject: Re:website/ rods = LOL Am I arrogant? Yeah maybe:)) rods.Not even by a mile. LOL ,have they fallin off yet?)Don't be mad I have talent AND YOU DON'T!Quit spreading those lies Dude80% of your spew is just that.I won't say 100 % there is some slight truth in what you =say.I'm not gonna be a hypocrite.The only thing that wasn't a lie in your last post was the part = not making those ovens. That was the truth, you don't make them. to hear it.Thank you for not emailing me anymore, I was wondering when you = the hint.Took you long enough. Are you finished yet or are you gonna say I = dog too.I thought you wrapped it up in your last post(another Lie?)Can you keep your word on anything?Here I'll show you how, This is my last post on the =subject.And like Dennis Hopper said about Kurtz in Apocalypse Now.= "And he Meant it"Tony MillerSorry list, pretty hard to ignore personal attackswww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Dec 12 11:42:00 2001 fBCHfxt26408 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:41:59 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:41:57 -0500 Subject: my new oven site I decided to go into the oven making business as suggested.here is the link: thanks for looking:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I decided to go into the oven making business as suggested.here is the link:www.homestead.com= thanks for looking:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 11:42:59 2001 fBCHgxt26590 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:42:59 - 12 Dec 2001 09:42:58 PST Subject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ who sells strippers with n/s rings? timothy --- Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Whats the reliability/longevity of using a nickelsilver (18%) ring in the stripper guide?? Tom ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 12 11:52:57 2001 fBCHqtt27375 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:52:55 - "'mrc@mars.plala.or.jp'" , flytyr@southshore.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: HANDMILL CALC..xlsRE: Guide Spacing Formula this is a safefolder to open. fill in 3-8 in colum B and it auto calculates toclemens formul a Thank you Patrick. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 12:28:59 2001 fBCISwt28909 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:28:58 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? Still being on the beginning end of the craft, I will probably use up someof my Perfection stripper guides that I use with graphite rods. There isone thing that I do like about those, though. They have a white shock ringunderneath the ceramic insert that can be dyed using normal RIT dye fromthegrocery store. Not as classy as an agate or agateen guide, but it does looknice in the sun. And you can choose a color that matches the wraps ortipping. Pretty good guides (a little large and a little heavy, though) and not tooexpensive. Jason On 12/11/01 10:01 PM, "KyleDruey@aol.com" wrote: Its a bit chilly here tonight on the list, I'm sure its because most of youare away gettin' busy warming up your dip tubes. [:)] If not, I'm hoping thatthe most interesting topic of stripping guides will warm everyone up a bit.I have done my research on this, and I am still confused. I checked thearchives, tips page, OEM websites, etc., and I am still unable to figure thisout... what type of stripping guide should I use? I understand that agate/agatines are traditional and absolutely beautiful,and the Mildrum tungsten carbide rings look nice and seem to fit thebamboostyle, but what about all the others? SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, TitaniumCarbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't one of these other styles be anacceptable alternative to the agate/agatine or Mildrum style... List, pleaseweight in! I know I will hear that it only matters what I like, but I reallywant to know what others do and why. I am sure some of you have read some of Charles Brooks works. He wasonlyinterested in the function of the rod, and could care less about the looks.He made his rods from glass blanks and used spinning rod guides for thestrippers! I probably fall somewhere between this and the strict traditionalview. Thanks for your insights, Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) from Dkenney94@cs.com Wed Dec 12 12:52:15 2001 fBCIqEt02239 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:52:15 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:52:07 - Subject: Strip Heaters/A non violent oven Question I was given two 30" strip heaters (220v 1000w). Is it possible to set them end to end wired off the same control to make a 5' oven? Would they heat evenly? Thanks in advance,Dave was given two 30" strip heaters (220v 1000w). Is it possible to set them endto end wired off the same control to make a 5' oven? Would they heatevenly? Thanks in advance, from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Dec 12 12:52:31 2001 fBCIqUt02286 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:52:30 - Subject: list rules --=====_100818306118467=_ Sorry for the html Harry,listed below are some of the guide lines thatwe accepted when we subscribed, anyone who cant play by the rules please unsubscribe... sorry for the bandwidthBrad Lovesorry for speaking out Mike,if im out of line i apologize********************************************This is a good- natured list. Strong language, spam, and flaming are not welcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from the list without warning.Try to keep your posts relevant to the subject of rodmaking. We allwander from time to time, please keep it to a minimum. *** COMMERCIALISMIt is strongly encouraged that listmembers openly discuss suppliers of products, and their experiences with dealing with these suppliers. If you know where a particular product can be obtain, or the suitability of a particular product to rodmaking, again you are encourage to share your insights with the list. This should be considered one of the majorbenefits of this list.*** IF YOU ARE BUSINESSRemember to keep commercial activities as private as possible. Most, if not all, business transactions are more appropriately handled through private email, or through a phone call. If you have any question about the appropriateness of a post by which you might profit, please refer tothis section, or contact the list maintainer (mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu) Posting of Advertisements, Commercial Offers, Marketing Messages, or Consumer Interest Surveys does not fit within the bounds of this discussion forum, and is not permitted on the list. This listserver is not intended to be a Sales/Marketing mechanism for commercial organizations.If you are a manufacturer, or reseller you are always welcome to observe/join in any discussion at all times. We do ask that everyone, please refrain from overt sales pitches and/or commercialism. If a product which you produce/sell can solve a problem or answer a question raised by anyone on this list, then by all means feel free to *privately* contact the person asking the question.Please note that: unsolicited product announcements is advertising anddoes not belong in this forum. It is not out of line to provide your company name, Email address or WWWsite as part of your signoff/signature line, at the end of any messageyou post to this system. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/12/01 at 12:42 PM Tony Miller wrote:I decided to go into the oven making business as suggested.here is the link: --=====_100818306118467=_ BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000;BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Sorry for the html Harry, we accepted when we subscribed, anyone who cant play by the rules please unsubscribe... sorry for the bandwidthBrad Lovesorry for speaking out Mike,if im out of line i apologize********************************************This is a good- natured list. Strong language, spam, and flaming are not welcome. Repeat offenders will be removed from the list withoutwarning.Try to keep your posts relevant to the subject of rodmaking. We allwander from time to time, please keep it to a minimum. *** COMMERCIALISMIt is strongly encouraged that listmembers openly discuss suppliers of products, and their experiences with dealing with these suppliers. If you know where a particular product can be obtain, or the suitability of a particular product to rodmaking, again you are encourage to share your insights with the list. This should be considered one of themajorbenefits of this list.*** IF YOU ARE BUSINESSRemember to keep commercial activities as private as possible. Most, if not all, business transactions are more appropriately handled through private email, or through a phone call. If you have any question about the appropriateness of a post by which you might profit, please refertothis section, or contact the list maintainer (mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu) Posting of Advertisements, Commercial Offers, Marketing Messages, or Consumer Interest Surveys does not fit within the bounds of this discussion forum, and is not permitted on the list. This listserver is not intended to be a Sales/Marketing mechanism for commercial organizations.If you are a manufacturer, or reseller you are always welcome to observe/join in any discussion at all times. We do ask that everyone, please refrain from overt sales pitches and/or commercialism. If a product which you produce/sell can solve a problem or answer a question raised by anyone on this list, then by all means feel free to *privately* contact the person asking the question.Please note that: unsolicited product announcements is advertisinganddoes not belong in this forum. It is not out of line to provide your company name, Email address orWWWsite as part of your signoff/signature line, at the end of anymessageyou post to this system. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********On 12/12/01 at 12:42 PM TonyMiller wrote: I decided to go into the oven making business as suggested.here is the link: --=====_100818306118467=_-- from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Dec 12 12:53:05 2001 fBCIr4t02467 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:53:04 - Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Looking at these formulas people have posted, spacing seems fairly similar.Is there a difference for spacing and number from cane to that heathenplastic? It looks like these sites with the formulas are plastic sites.REC offers a spacing guide under its' tips page. Pete from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Dec 12 12:54:48 2001 fBCIslt02935 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:54:47 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:54:42 -0800 Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:54:42 GMT Subject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ FILETIME=[75718730:01C1833E] The life of the NS stripper ring can be measures in minutes with a shooting head system.A.J. From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Subject: stripper guide ring??/Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:25:54 -0500 Whats the reliability/longevity of using a nickel silver (18%) ring in the stripper guide?? Tom _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Dec 12 13:25:44 2001 fBCJPht04480 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:25:43 -0600 Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:25:35 -0800 Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:25:34 GMT Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? FILETIME=[C5AAF480:01C18342] Kyle: rod, so you're confronted with the decision of what you want the rod to lookand function like. For me, I want my rods to look traditional. All of thetraditional strippers, be they agate, or a mildrum, or whatever, should work to pose to yourself is, why wouldn't I use a traditional stripper on a bamboorod. It's the same reason I use silk for my wraps. Not that it's better, butit's traditional, and yes I can tell the difference from silk and nylon, contraryto what Milward thinks. I'd also think that 90 precent of the rest of us couldalso!. Jim most of you I'm hoping that everyone up a bit. checked the to figure this absolutely beautiful, to fit the bamboo Titanium styles be an style... List, please but I really works. He was only about the looks. guides for the strict traditional up dip tube) Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from flyfish@defnet.com Wed Dec 12 13:58:21 2001 fBCJwKt06078 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:58:20 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:58:19 -0500 Subject: Re:Flames It's cool, I totally agree with you.It has been pointless.My intention on the list is NOT to sell anything to anyone.:)No one is pressuring you to buy anything.Certainly not me.:)You have every right not to buy an oven.( I mean one of my easy bake =models of course):))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Jason anyone.:)No one is pressuring you to buy anything.Certainly not me.:) bake models of course):))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Dec 12 14:05:19 2001 fBCK5Jt06615 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:05:19 - 0000 (63.228.45.232) Subject: axiom My Mother used to say, "when you hear someone talking about someone =else, it says more about the person doing the talking than it does about =the person being talked about". My Mother used to say,"when = someone talking about someone else, it says more about the person doing = about". from BambooRods@aol.com Wed Dec 12 14:08:31 2001 fBCK8Vt06972 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:08:31 -0600 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:08:22 -0500 Subject: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed Well, this is a first for me. I have a tip for a PHY Martha Marie with a bit of a problem. It is one of two that are gifts for my father and brother. It was not until I began to wrap the guides on the second tip second rod that I noticed an opening dead between the two halves of the rod section. That is right, clean thru one side to the other! It is about three inches long. I can get a scalpel blade into and can open it enough to insert glue. The question (s), can it be repaired? The original bind up glue or could I use two ton (I use that for my ferrules)? If I should go with binding glue, how do I heat set given that it has already been done and the fact that it is a blond? I am sure that there are issues that I haven't even thought of. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA Doug Hall from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Dec 12 14:30:02 2001 fBCKU1t08229 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:30:01 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:29:56 -0800 Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:29:55 GMT Subject: Re: Strip Heaters/A non violent oven Question FILETIME=[C2FF6D70:01C1834B] Dave: heating will be even as both heaters will draw the same wattage (1000). Use amp possible a 5' oven? Would Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from stoltz10@attbi.com Wed Dec 12 14:37:17 2001 fBCKbHt08889 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:37:17 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:37:11 +0000 Subject: Re: axiom I agree Iagree from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Dec 12 14:38:39 2001 fBCKcdt09111 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:38:39 - Subject: Silk line Digging through an old tackle box of my grandfathers, I found in it'soriginal box a silk Ashaway Line. My grandmother sends me stuff she findsevery now and then. The label reads TOB BIGdouble taper 30 yards H.E.HSoft finish Silk Fly Casting Line What would the weight designation be in today's plastic line standards? Pete from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 12 14:57:03 2001 fBCKv3t10283 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:57:03 -0600 helo=default) id 16EGR4-0004CY-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:57:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Strip Heaters/A non violent oven Question If you wire them end to end, in series, you will only get 500W of =output, not 2000W. If you wire them in parallel you can get the full =output. They can still be mounted end to end, though.You should also consider the heated area of your oven. It is very =possible to have strips that are too large for your oven, just as it is =possible to over-insulate. M-D I was given two 30" strip heaters (220v 1000w). Is it =possible to set them end to end wired off the same control to make a 5' = If you wire them end to= parallel you can get the full output. They can still be mounted end to = though.You should also = heated area of your oven. It is very possible to have strips that are = over-insulate. M-D given two 30" strip heaters (220v 1000w). Is it possible to set them = end wired off the same control to make a 5' oven? Would they heat = = from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 12 14:57:05 2001 fBCKv5t10288 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:57:05 -0600 helo=default) id 16EGR6-0004CY-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:57:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Any guide spacing system is but a suggestion of a place to start for guideplacement, so it doesn't matter the substrate. M-D Looking at these formulas people have posted, spacing seems fairly similar. Is there a difference for spacing and number from cane to that heathenplastic? It looks like these sites with the formulas are plastic sites.REC offers a spacing guide under its' tips page. Pete from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Dec 12 15:02:11 2001 fBCL2At10999 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:02:10 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Silk line Peter, That's hard to say, depending on the length of forward taper, the typeof varnish, the tightness of braid, etc. It could be a fine delicate line once it is cleaned up. I'd try casting it on a 4wt (but it might be a 5 or a 3).Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Peter Van Schaack wrote: Digging through an old tackle box of my grandfathers, I found in it'soriginal box a silk Ashaway Line. My grandmother sends me stuff she findsevery now and then. The label reads TOB BIGdouble taper 30 yards H.E.HSoft finish Silk Fly Casting Line What would the weight designation be in today's plastic line standards? Pete . -- > from darrell@vFish.net Wed Dec 12 15:18:02 2001 Received: from fBCLI2t12591 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 , "Rod Makers \(E-mail\)"Subject: RE: Silk line Date: Wed, 12 Dec2001 13:17:30 -0800 Message-ID: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN You're quite fortunate...that's a great line size! Visit... http://vfish.net/silklinechart.htm It says it'sa 5wt DT Regards, Darrell Lee Anglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.net Info & Int'l Line: (323)465- 4551================== Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF ================== ----- Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Silk line Digging through an old tackle box of my grandfathers, Ifound in it's original box a silk Ashaway Line. My grandmother sends me stuffshe finds every now and then. The label reads TOB BIG double taper 30 yardsH.E.H Soft finish Silk Fly Casting Line What would the weight designation be intoday's plastic line standards? Pete > from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Dec 1215:41:31 2001 Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id i.f5.13ad28ef (15892); Wed, 12 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Jim, Wouldn't those 220Vheaters draw only 1/4 the current when run on 120V? Kyle In a messagedated Wed, 12 Dec 2001 3:30:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Jim Bureau"writes: Dave: You can wire them end to end. For 220 volts,BE SUREto wire the strips inparallel and hook up to a 2 pole breaker. The heating will be even as bothheaters will draw the same wattage (1000). Use a 20 ampbreaker. For 120volt operation you'd need towirethe heaters in series, use larger wire,and a30 amp breaker. Jim rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu > >Subject: Strip Heaters/A non violent ovenQuestion Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:52:06 EST I was given two 30" strip heaters (220v 1000w). Is it possible to set them end to end wired off the same control to make a 5' oven?Would they heat evenly? Thanks in advance, Dave Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Dec 12 15:42:49 2001 fBCLgmt14617 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:42:48 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:42:43 -0800 Subject: Lie-Nielsen FILETIME=[EE0728F0:01C18355] To All,I just received in the mail my Lie-Nielsen standard angle 9 1/2 block pla=ne. It appears ready to use just as they claim and the finish is great - =no sharp edges or corners to knock off and the sides are smooth although=I may steel wool them just a bit.An interesting flyer came with it about the blade. They are now making t=he blades with Cryogenically treated A-2 tool steel - a 20 hour soak at -=320 deg. F and they expect it to hold an edge longer. I think I'm going =to like this one! John ToAll, = nish is great - no sharp edges or corners to knock off and the sides are =smooth although I may steel wool them just a bit. An interesti= es with Cryogenically treated A-2 tool steel - a 20 hour soak at -320 deg= John from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Dec 12 15:49:35 2001 fBCLnYt15146 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:49:34 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:49:32 +0000 Subject: Re: axiom If you can't say anything nice about someone then don't say anything atall.....excluding Bin Laden that is ! Dave Norling wrote: My Mother used to say, "when you hear someone talking about someoneelse, it says more about the person doing the talking than it doesabout the person being talked about". from iank@ts.co.nz Wed Dec 12 16:17:03 2001 fBCMGut17553 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:16:59 - by sage.ts.co.nz (8.11.3/8.11.3) id fBCMMuh22607 for RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu.KAV; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:22:56+1300 using -f by sage.ts.co.nz (8.11.3/8.11.3) id fBCMMtD22603; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:22:55 +1300 using -f Subject: Re: Glue report: Aerodux resorcinol Frank, The resorocinol glue that I use down this end of the world is a two part liquid.I used it on several rods a couple of years ago and it seems to work well. I am not sure of the maker, it is a local manufacturer(?) whoprobably just repackages drums he imports. It is the best glue to use for rods, but I do not like the glue lines so changedback to a clear glue when I had used up the container I bought. Incidently I think it was about $15 (NZ) for a small container whichdid about 5 rods so it was not expensive. Ian I've glued up 2 rods with the new Aerodux resorcinol glue and I want to give the list a brief report on my experiences. This is a two-part LIQUID resorcinol glue...both the resin and hardener are liquid. That was the main attraction of the glue flour filler. The resin appears the same as what we are used to,while the hardener is a dark brown goo about the consistency of molasses. A secondary benefit is that it cures at any temp above 50F whichmeans I can leave everything in the basement shop even in winter. Aerodux is a product of Britain so it is possible that some of our builders from that side of the pond are familiar with it. It is imported into the US by CustomPak, and they list twoformulations on their website, a Medium and a Fast cure. (A websearch indicated that there is also a Slow cure which apparentlyCustomPak chose not to import.) These are available in gallons for about $160. Since I didn't need a gallon, I resisted the urge to buy it until I found it on Aircraft Spruce's website, in quart kits, When I received it, I was pleasantly surprised to have a quart ofeach, hardener and resin. (I was expecting a quart total.) Thecans were clearly marked as being packaged by Custom Pak. Thehardender had an "F" which I guessed meant it was the "Fast" cureformulation. I was hoping for the Medium cure but there was nochoice or indication on the Aircraft Spruce page. There was no data sheet with the glue. I emailed Custom Pak to seeif they would fax me one but they did not answer. I have not pursued this yet. The CustomPak website says the shelf life is 1 year at 70F and something I read implies its considerably longerat lower temps. I mixed the glue by weight and applied it with a tooth brush as Inormally do. The mixed glue is fairly thick but spreads thinly. to make it a little thinner. The glue does set up fairly fast. After binding you have a few minutesto straighten, but just a few, before things stop moving. If you liketaking a long time to fiddle with the blank, this is not the glue foryou. It would be a service to the rodbuilding community if we couldget access to this glue in the Medium, or even better, the Slow cureformulations. The resulting glue lines are still the characteristic resorcinol plumbrown, but they _seem_ thinner and less noticible at this early stagethan ordinary resorcinol glue lines. We will see what happens aftera couple years. Summary:Advantages* Liquid hardener leads to thinner glue lines* Cures at cool temps* Long shelf life if kept refrigerated* General resorcinol toughness Disadvantages* Fast setup time (esp for "Fast" formulation)* Fairly expensive* Those dark resorcinol glue lines ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. -- Tasman Solutions Ltd. Real People in Cyber Space http://www.ts.co.nz from pohl@earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 16:25:11 2001 Received: fromavocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net 1cust45.tnt1.albany.ny.da.uu.net ([63.20.207.45] helo=pohl) by 00; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:25:00 -0800 Message-ID:From: "Mark & Kathy Cc: References: Subject: Re: reel seats 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN not the sock, it's moldy atthe hardware insert interface. like water got trapped under the hardware.it's black at the interface.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:30PM Subject: Re: reel seats Could the mold actually be in the rod sock? I know it would love to livethere all warm and toasting between those fibres. AdamVigil----- Original Message -----From: WILLIAM HARMS Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:01 PMSubject: Re: reel seats Mark, You may hear other opinions on this, but I don't believe there are any "pros and cons" in comparing the uplock to the downlock reel seat. I think each works equally well, and that the issue is purely a matter of taste. Iprefer the downlock, but only because that's what my eye likes. As to wood choices, again, I do not believe there are any that are better or worse than another--at least as to species. Various woods certainly have different characteristics, but this is more important to luthiers orfurniture makers than it is to rod makers. We have used everything from balsa to ebony. It's all just fine. The maple seat that you say has become moldy is a new one on me. I never heard of a piece of wood go moldy just because it was one species oranother. Individual blocks of wood must be properly dried before turning and finishing, and perhaps this was not done. But whatever the cause may be, it is not because the wood happens to be maple. Maple makes excellent reel seats, and has always been highly prized as stock material for the old flintlocks rifles. I would choose the wood you like to look at, dry it well, finish it nicely, and let that be the end of your worries. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark & Kathy Pohl" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 5:25 PMSubject: reel seats I've decided on a sliding ring type Venneri reel seat for my 1st rod. I need to decide on the wood and up/down lock.what are the pros and cons of up vs down lock seets? is any wood better suited for reel seats than others. I've got a Winston that has a maple reel seat that's turned moldy on me after the first year and i always let the rod get to room temp before wiping it down and putting it away, cork is crappy too but that's besides the point.... -Mark from rextutor@yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 16:33:33 2001 fBCMXWt22260 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:33:32 -0600 12 Dec 2001 14:33:31 PST Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed I see similar things when restoring. In fact I havelearned to llok for them. I use Titebond II to repairthis , hold ope the slit with thumbnail and push gluewith the other hand. I then bind the section glued. Ithink it works good. People have known their rodswhere splitting and I have not hear back anything in60 rods. --- BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Well, this is a first for me. I have a tip for aPHY Martha Marie with a bit of a problem. It is one of two that are gifts formy father and brother. It was not until I began to wrap the guides on thesecond tip second rod that I noticed an opening dead between the two halves ofthe rod section. That is right, clean thru one side to the other! It isabout three inches long. I can get a scalpel blade into and can open it enoughto insert glue. The question (s), can it be repaired? The originalbind up glue or could I use two ton (I use that for my ferrules)? If Ishould go with binding glue, how do I heat set given that it has already beendone and the fact that it is a blond? I am sure that there are issues that Ihaven't even thought of. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA Doug Hall __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from sats@gte.net Wed Dec 12 17:00:36 2001 fBCN0Zt01406 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:00:35 - ; id fBCN1Lf17770 Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed I can get a scalpel blade into and can open it enough to insert glue. The question (s), can it be repaired? The original bind up glue or could I use two ton (I use that for my ferrules)? If I should go with binding glue, how do I heat set given that it has already been done and the fact that it is a blond? I am sure that there are issues that I haven't even thought of. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA I've glued several separating sections back together. Make sure you've gotitto open up as far as it will go. Also make sure that the other sectionsaren'topening on you. I'd guess that the glue you used in the first place would dothe trick. I hold mine open with pins and force the glue into the small endswith a dubbing needle. You want to get as much glue from one end to theotheras you can. I bind mine by hand. Have a large (home made) bobbin that I use. I put abunchof large washers around the tube and hold them in place with masking tape.wrap over the area several times. Then let it dry for about twice as long asyou did the first time. Then you should be ready to go. I've fished severalof these without any more de lamination.----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from bob@downandacross.com Wed Dec 12 17:21:12 2001 fBCNLBt05359 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:21:11 -0600 Subject: RE: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed Doug:I would consider using Tite Bond II and wrap over it by hand. I think one ofthe restorers would be best to chime in here. If it is already straight, theTBII will be plenty strong.Bob -----Original Message----- BambooRods@aol.com Subject: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed Well, this is a first for me. I have a tip for a PHY Martha Mariewith a bitof a problem. It is one of two that are gifts for my father andbrother. Itwas not until I began to wrap the guides on the second tip secondrod that Inoticed an opening dead between the two halves of the rod section. That isright, clean thru one side to the other! It is about three inches long. Ican get a scalpel blade into and can open it enough to insert glue. The question (s), can it be repaired? The original bind up glue or could Iuse two ton (I use that for my ferrules)? If I should go with binding glue,how do I heat set given that it has already been done and the factthat it isa blond? I am sure that there are issues that I haven't even thought of.Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA Doug Hall from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 17:22:30 2001 fBCNMTt05855 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:22:29 - 12 Dec 2001 15:22:29 PST Subject: Durability In an age where style seems to mean more thansubstance we seem to have lost sight of what rocksolid construction is like. What would you considerthe perfect combination of factors for durability inconstruction of a cane rod? Impregnation? Resourcinolglue? Pinned ferrules? In other words, without respectto cosmetics how would you build the ultimatelydurable bamboo flyrod? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from channer@frontier.net Wed Dec 12 18:06:07 2001 fBD066t15083 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:06:06 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:20:22 - Subject: Re: HANDMILL CALC..xlsRE: Guide Spacing Formula this is a safefolderto open. fill in 3-8 in colum B and it auto calculates to clemens formula Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!Who in blazes wants to go thru all that? Either useGarrison's spacing charts in his book(and who among us doesn't havethat?) or use the Hexrod guide spacing program. Jeez, I've never seensuch a bunch for making things hard on themselves. You guys have way toomuch time on your hands. LOLjohn from channer@frontier.net Wed Dec 12 18:08:32 2001 fBD08Vt15566 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:08:31 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:22:52 - Subject: Re: HANDMILL CALC..xlsRE: Guide Spacing Formula this is a safefolderto open. fill in 3-8 in colum B and it auto calculates to clemens formula Sorry guys, I thought this was something you had to do with a penciiland paper, I didn't realize it would calculate for you. I still thinkyou all have too much time on your hands tho. john channer wrote: Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!Who in blazes wants to go thru all that? Either useGarrison's spacing charts in his book(and who among us doesn't havethat?) or use the Hexrod guide spacing program. Jeez, I've never seensuch a bunch for making things hard on themselves. You guys have way toomuch time on your hands. LOLjohn from channer@frontier.net Wed Dec 12 18:19:44 2001 fBD0Jht16851 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:19:43 - for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:34:03 - Subject: Re: Durability Resorcinol glue, impregnated finish, 7wt taper marked as a 4 wt, pinnedferrules,hypalon grip, aluminum seat, nylon thread with epoxy coating,ceramic insert stripper, TiC snakes and ceramic insert tip top. In otherwords, butt ugly(except for the snakes) and way too stiff for thedesignated line weight, but don't be surpprised if a car door can breakit anyway.john Bill Walters wrote: In an age where style seems to mean more thansubstance we seem to have lost sight of what rocksolid construction is like. What would you considerthe perfect combination of factors for durability inconstruction of a cane rod? Impregnation? Resourcinolglue? Pinned ferrules? In other words, without respectto cosmetics how would you build the ultimatelydurable bamboo flyrod? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from rodwrapp@swbell.net Wed Dec 12 18:25:16 2001 fBD0PFt17166 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:25:15 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: HANDMILL CALC..xlsRE: Guide Spacing Formula this is a safefolderto open. fill in 3-8 in colum B and it auto calculates to clemens formula I just mount my first guide at 4 1/2 inches then just add an inch to everyguide, I also mount my stripping guide I hold rod the way I would fish itthen I take my left hand where I would grab line and then I mount guideright there.. Then I do a static defection test.. I also keep in mind thatGarrison likes a guide right at the female ferule on 2 piece rod.. I thinkthis is much simpler than useing a chart.. Thanks Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: HANDMILL CALC..xlsRE: Guide Spacing Formula this is a safefolderto open. fill in 3-8 in colum B and it auto calculates to clemensformula Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!Who in blazes wants to go thru all that? Either useGarrison's spacing charts in his book(and who among us doesn't havethat?) or use the Hexrod guide spacing program. Jeez, I've never seensuch a bunch for making things hard on themselves. You guys have way toomuch time on your hands. LOLjohn from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 12 18:32:33 2001 fBD0WWt17587 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:32:32 -0600 helo=default) id 16EJnb-0005In-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:32:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Durability John, I'm with you on everything except for the TiC snakes. As long as we'rebeing ugly, but durable, let's use single foot SiC. Might as well go for thetop of the line stuff. M-D Resorcinol glue, impregnated finish, 7wt taper marked as a 4 wt, pinnedferrules,hypalon grip, aluminum seat, nylon thread with epoxy coating,ceramic insert stripper, TiC snakes and ceramic insert tip top. In otherwords, butt ugly(except for the snakes) and way too stiff for thedesignated line weight, but don't be surpprised if a car door can breakit anyway.john Bill Walters wrote: In an age where style seems to mean more thansubstance we seem to have lost sight of what rocksolid construction is like. What would you considerthe perfect combination of factors for durability inconstruction of a cane rod? Impregnation? Resourcinolglue? Pinned ferrules? In other words, without respectto cosmetics how would you build the ultimatelydurable bamboo flyrod? from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 12 18:56:59 2001 fBD0uxt18345 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:56:59 - ;Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:56:53 +0000 Subject: Re: bumped in the night I personally think you did get bumped, and on the head at that. Justkidding. Jack from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Dec 12 18:57:15 2001 fBD0vEt18421 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:57:14 - fBD0v9W29245 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:57:09 -0600 Subject: Need to unsubscribe Lost my List prossesing address.Need to unsubscribe.Can someone send it to me tonight.Thanks Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 12 19:06:55 2001 fBD16st20049 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:06:54 - ;Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:06:48 +0000 Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? P.S. I guess if your going to get bumped you should use a stripper guide! Jack from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Dec 12 19:27:55 2001 fBD1Rtt23340 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:27:55 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16EKf8-0005ka-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:27:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Need to unsubscribe Done:Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Need to unsubscribe Lost my List prossesing address.Need to unsubscribe.Can someone send it to me tonight.Thanks Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from pohl@earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 19:38:40 2001 fBD1cdt23774 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:38:39 - helo=pohl) id 16EKpa-0003Fl-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:38:39 -0800 Subject: choosing # of guides & size I'm Building my first rod and would like to know how many and what sizeguides i should use. The Rod is a dickerson 7012, that's a delicate 7' 4wtin which i'll be in persuit of heavy trout using small drys and maybe asmall wooley in a pinch. -Mark from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Dec 12 19:51:34 2001 fBD1pYt24396 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:51:34 -0600 Organization: New Scotland fly Rods Subject: Test, I guess I got bumped again???? Hello,it's me ....is that you????Shawn from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Dec 12 20:11:08 2001 fBD2B7t27772 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:11:07 - Subject: Re: stripper guide ring??/ In a message dated 12/12/2001 8:25:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, tausfeld@frontiernet.net writes: Nickel Silver wouldn't last very long without grooving. Itisn't hard enough. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Dec 12 20:15:01 2001 fBD2F1t28569 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:15:01 - (authenticated) Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:14:38 -0800 Subject: Re: choosing # of guides & size Mark, I like my guides on the small size. I'd use3 size 1/0's2 size 1's2 size 2's Plus a stripping guide and a tiptop. Harry Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I'm Building my first rod and would like to know how many and what sizeguides i should use. The Rod is a dickerson 7012, that's a delicate 7' 4wtin which i'll be in persuit of heavy trout using small drys and maybe asmall wooley in a pinch. -Mark -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Wed Dec 12 20:24:22 2001 fBD2OMt00234 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:24:22 - Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Hi, John, It is a great plane, and the blade works well. David has two (one grooved,one not), and traded the first blade in on the new and improved model soboth have the miracle edge. Those guys are just too close to us. Kat and David Ardea Flyrods/ Moose in the Water, Bamboo on the Bench http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/moose/mitw.html *-*Kathy Scott and David P. Van BurgelRR#2 Box 1235 Rome RoadNorridgewock, ME 04957207-587-4524 from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Dec 12 20:49:29 2001 fBD2nRt02818 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:49:27 - fBD2nJ406095 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:49:23 Subject: petulant & unacceptable behaviour A problem with the Internet is the difficulty of keeping immature andunstable children from access to it. I hope that we have now had all of the silly, childish, immaturity that weare going to have to endure for now. I don't mind rambling off-topic, by me or other members. Often theoff-topic threads are enormously informative and/or entertaining. This one has been neither. It has been embarrassing and demeaning. Pleasestop it now. Peter from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Wed Dec 12 21:01:50 2001 fBD31Yt03343 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:01:48 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:57:50 -0500 Subject: Re: reel seats Mold (fungus) can only grow where it has water and a food source, for asubstantial period, i.e., a week or so. It goes dormant when humidity drops below about 70%. On the other hand, a humid microenvironment can becreated atlower humidity levels when a normally dry surface has something on it that ishygroscopic, collecting moisture and holding moisture from the air. Saltfromsweat can provide the moisture, and many finishes, especially tung or linseedtypes, can provide the food source. Moral: wipe with water and then drywell......... Could the mold actually be in the rod sock? I know it would love to livethere all warm and toasting between those fibres. AdamVigil----- Original Message -----From: WILLIAM HARMS Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:01 PMSubject: Re: reel seats Mark, You may hear other opinions on this, but I don't believe there are any "pros and cons" in comparing the uplock to the downlock reel seat. I think eachworks equally well, and that the issue is purely a matter of taste. Iprefer the downlock, but only because that's what my eye likes. As to wood choices, again, I do not believe there are any that are better or worse than another--at least as to species. Various woods certainlyhavedifferent characteristics, but this is more important to luthiers orfurniture makers than it is to rod makers. We have used everythingfrombalsa to ebony. It's all just fine. The maple seat that you say has become moldy is a new one on me. Ineverheard of a piece of wood go moldy just because it was one species oranother. Individual blocks of wood must be properly dried before turningand finishing, and perhaps this was not done. But whatever the causemaybe, it is not because the wood happens to be maple. Maple makesexcellentreel seats, and has always been highly prized as stock material for the old flintlocks rifles. I would choose the wood you like to look at, dry it well, finish it nicely, and let that be the end of your worries. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark & Kathy Pohl" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 5:25 PMSubject: reel seats I've decided on a sliding ring type Venneri reel seat for my 1st rod. I need to decide on the wood and up/down lock.what are the pros and cons of up vs down lock seets? is any woodbettersuited for reel seats than others. I've got a Winston that has a maple reel seat that's turned moldy on me after the first year and i always letthe rod get to room temp before wiping it down and putting it away, cork is crappy too but that's besides the point.... -Mark from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 12 21:28:41 2001 fBD3Sft04162 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:28:41 -0600 helo=excalibur.ix.netcom.com) id 16EMY3-0002GY-00; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:28:40 -0500 "rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Test, I guess I got bumped again???? --=======6DB231E4======= ascii; format=flowed No! It's some guy with a fur coat and green eyeballs...Big Ones...and sharp teeth...shhhhh Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 09:43 PM 12/12/01 -0500, Shawn Pineo wrote: Hello,it's me ....is that you????Shawn ---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release Date: 12/4/01 --=======6DB231E4======= ok-1F9A6CBF ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release Date: 12/4/01 --=======6DB231E4=======-- from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Wed Dec 12 21:35:55 2001 fBD3Zst04460 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:35:54 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:35:49 -0800 Thu, 13 Dec 2001 03:35:49 GMT Subject: Re: Spacing Programs, Log. Tables, etc... FILETIME=[41EE89A0:01C18387] I am asked all the time how we are able to cook tenderloins so well. Medium- rare, dead to nuts, day in and day out. Often a customer will offer their own theory in hopes I will in return provide some feedback. Usually something along these lines; "Well Eamon, tell me what you think. I have the butcher slaughter the organic-indian corn-fed -no growth hormone pumped animal himself, with ceramic cutlery, so the steer isn't in an un-needed state of stress, whereby rendering a more tender-tenderloin, due to the decreased amount of lactic acid build-up in the muscle tissue. It is hung in French cheese aging caves (constant humidity/temperature) for one lunar cycle. Then I have a Rabbi come by and make sure my $100,000 titanium kitchen is up to snuff. Then I massage it with lavender garlic and vintage olive oil from a small privately owned (retired 32 year-old California software engineer) olive grove located in the valley where Eden supposedly was (that's what their web-site says anyway.) I then use the box elder you sold me to fire my oven to exactly 100C. Then, with my Emeril Lagasse endorsed speedball-turned-flavor injectors, I inject, on 3.025" centers, a blend of Danish butter, ground black cardamom, Normandy sea water and Jim Beam. Seeing as how myaltitude is 425 feet above sea-level, I roast it for exactly 15.076 minutes (swiss time) per 1000 grams. Perfect medium rare every time. Am I right? Isn'tthat what you guys do? Why are you looking at me that way? What do you guys do!!???" "We chuck it a hot-ass oven until my $0.95 thermometer reads 115* in thefat part and then we yank it." LOL. I like the programs too, the brain candy, the high-brow banter, and all that. But sometimes I take myself a bit too seriously. My old man says, KISS, keep it simple stupid! It's just fishing! Happy Holidays,Chef Lee _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Dec 12 21:39:38 2001 fBD3dct04718 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:39:38 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:39:30 -0600 "'rodmakers '" Subject: RE: Durability My bass rod was designed for ultimate durability. It is a one-piece,nodeless quad, glued with resourcinol, impregnated and has extra heavy-dutyguides. The rod is an 8' for #7 and has been used to catch many bass from4to 8 pounds as well as countless smaller bass and bluegill. So far the onlyfailure has been the tip top wearing through. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Durability In an age where style seems to mean more thansubstance we seem to have lost sight of what rocksolid construction is like. What would you considerthe perfect combination of factors for durability inconstruction of a cane rod? Impregnation? Resourcinolglue? Pinned ferrules? In other words, without respectto cosmetics how would you build the ultimatelydurable bamboo flyrod? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from lblan@provide.net Wed Dec 12 21:45:34 2001 fBD3jYt05089 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:45:34 -0600 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:45:26 -0500 Subject: RE: Durability Yeah, those get it done. The plastic rod I usually use for the hex hatch wasbuilt in 1980 with single foot SiC's. The rod is an inch and a half shortertoday, but the guides are still going strong. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:32 PM Subject: Re: Durability John, I'm with you on everything except for the TiC snakes. Aslong as we'rebeing ugly, but durable, let's use single foot SiC. Might as wellgo for thetop of the line stuff. M-D From: "channer" Resorcinol glue, impregnated finish, 7wt taper marked as a 4 wt, pinnedferrules,hypalon grip, aluminum seat, nylon thread with epoxy coating,ceramic insert stripper, TiC snakes and ceramic insert tip top. In otherwords, butt ugly(except for the snakes) and way too stiff for thedesignated line weight, but don't be surpprised if a car door can breakit anyway.john Bill Walters wrote: In an age where style seems to mean more thansubstance we seem to have lost sight of what rocksolid construction is like. What would you considerthe perfect combination of factors for durability inconstruction of a cane rod? Impregnation? Resourcinolglue? Pinned ferrules? In other words, without respectto cosmetics how would you build the ultimatelydurable bamboo flyrod? from ctn45555@centurytel.net Wed Dec 12 22:00:53 2001 fBD40rt05679 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:00:53 - fBD40ma26312 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:00:49 - Organization: Smith & Boyd Subject: unsubscribe Could someone please tell me how to unsubscribe from the list. I have triedseveral times with no success. Thank You, Chad from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Dec 12 23:15:45 2001 fBD5Fit07740 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:15:44 - ([209.178.134.235] helo=g2t8c9) id 16EODf-0006CV-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:15:43 -0800 Subject: Birdie fly rods? Cruising through Ebay I came across Birdie Fly Rods. I went to their websiteand check out the fly rods they makehttp://www.aeropublishers.com/birdierods/ppcart/bamboo_rods.htm . Am Imistaken or doesn't their rods look awfully familiar? Paine perhaps? Adam from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 12 23:41:57 2001 fBD5fut08350 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:41:56 -0600 helo=default) id 16EOcw-0001x5-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:41:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Birdie fly rods? Looks like a Pain to me. Wasn't someone on this list supposed to be gettinga blank, or something? M-D Cruising through Ebay I came across Birdie Fly Rods. I went to their website and check out the fly rods they makehttp://www.aeropublishers.com/birdierods/ppcart/bamboo_rods.htm . Am Imistaken or doesn't their rods look awfully familiar? Paine perhaps? Adam from jojo@ipa.net Wed Dec 12 23:51:53 2001 fBD5pqt08682 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:51:52 -0600 helo=default) id 16EOmd-0008TS-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:51:52 -0500 Subject: Re: choosing # of guides & size Hmmm, I like guides even smaller on light rods. 2 -- 2/02 -- 1/02 -- 11 -- 2Stripper or3 -- 2/02 -- 1/01 -- 11 -- 2Stripper It depends upon the taper used. M-D Mark, I like my guides on the small size. I'd use3 size 1/0's2 size 1's2 size 2's Plus a stripping guide and a tiptop. Harry Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I'm Building my first rod and would like to know how many and what sizeguides i should use. The Rod is a dickerson 7012, that's a delicate 7' 4wt in which i'll be in persuit of heavy trout using small drys and maybe asmall wooley in a pinch. -Mark from martinrjensen@attbi.com Thu Dec 13 00:23:10 2001 fBD6NAt09573 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:23:10 -0600 Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:23:04 +0000 Subject: RE: Birdie fly rods? Organization: wish I had some Yes, I would agree. I'm sure it is a Pain. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Birdie fly rods? Looks like a Pain to me. Wasn't someone on this list supposed to begetting a blank, or something? M-D Cruising through Ebay I came across Birdie Fly Rods. I went to their website and check out the fly rods they make http://www.aeropublishers.com/birdierods/ppcart/bamboo_rods.htm . Am I mistaken or doesn't their rods look awfully familiar? Paine perhaps? Adam from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Dec 13 01:42:58 2001 fBD7gvt10839 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:42:57 - Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:42:48 -0800 Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:42:48 GMT Subject: Re: Birdie fly rods? FILETIME=[C2E0AB20:01C183A9] Gee, don't want to seem presumptuous but I think the extra $75 for one of mine would be well spent. Maybe I should raise my prices? In all seriousness, a rod dealer friend of mine ordered one to have a look and ,you will have to trust me on this one, we can relax for now about Chinese imports.A.J. From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: Birdie fly rods?Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:02:50 -0800 Cruising through Ebay I came across Birdie Fly Rods. I went to their websiteand check out the fly rods they makehttp://www.aeropublishers.com/birdierods/ppcart/bamboo_rods.htm . AmImistaken or doesn't their rods look awfully familiar? Paine perhaps? Adam _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Dec 13 04:10:50 2001 fBDAAnt12499 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:10:49 -0600 Organization: New Scotland fly Rods Subject: Re: Test, I guess I got bumped again???? Thanks all,That's the third time in a week I have been bounced? Shawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Hello,it's me ....is that you????Shawn from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 13 04:44:18 2001 fBDAiGt13059 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:44:16 - fBDAi8Z31455; Subject: Re: petulant & unacceptable behaviour Gee, I was actually talking about Jojo.... But, if the cap fits.... Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 13 05:15:22 2001 fBDBFLt13494 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:15:21 - fBDBFEt37567; Subject: Re: HANDMILL CALC..xlsRE: Guide Spacing Formula this is a safefolderto open. fill in 3-8 in colum B and it auto calculates to clemens formula I must say that I am not the world's best caster, but I have not ever neededto look much beyond the scales in The Lovely Reed, sometimeswith a littlebit of fine tuning. Peter from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Dec 13 05:28:30 2001 fBDBSTt13823 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:28:29 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 2.218798 secs); 13 Dec 200111:28:26 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed If it were mine I would use polyurethane glue to repair it. No need to heat setthe glue and it's strong. Just pin open the delam and slather glue . Use paperstrips to force the glue in the gap. Marty BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Well, this is a first for me. I have a tip for a PHY Martha Marie with a bitof a problem. It is one of two that are gifts for my father and brother. Itwas not until I began to wrap the guides on the second tip second rod that Inoticed an opening dead between the two halves of the rod section. That isright, clean thru one side to the other! It is about three inches long. Ican get a scalpel blade into and can open it enough to insert glue. The question (s), can it be repaired? The original bind up glue or could Iuse two ton (I use that for my ferrules)? If I should go with binding glue,how do I heat set given that it has already been done and the fact that it isa blond? I am sure that there are issues that I haven't even thought of.Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA Doug Hall from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Dec 13 05:44:55 2001 fBDBist14329 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:44:54 - v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 2.043077 secs); 13 Dec 200111:44:51 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed I am not sure that Tite-Bond II (I am guessing the water based wood glue)wouldbe the glue of choice. I do not think it will stick well to the glue residuealready present on the strips. Poly will stick to just about anything (Pro-Bond,Gorrilla, etc.). Don't get me wrong I love the Tite-Bond II extend water basedglue I use for previously unglued strips or for old rods where the glue moreorless broke down and disappeared. Just not for regluing recently glued uprepairs. Poly is the way to go. Again , just my opinion. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Doug:I would consider using Tite Bond II and wrap over it by hand. I think one ofthe restorers would be best to chime in here. If it is already straight, theTBII will be plenty strong.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu BambooRods@aol.comSent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed Well, this is a first for me. I have a tip for a PHY Martha Mariewith a bitof a problem. It is one of two that are gifts for my father andbrother. Itwas not until I began to wrap the guides on the second tip secondrod that Inoticed an opening dead between the two halves of the rod section. That isright, clean thru one side to the other! It is about three inches long. Ican get a scalpel blade into and can open it enough to insert glue. The question (s), can it be repaired? The original bind up glue or could Iuse two ton (I use that for my ferrules)? If I should go with binding glue,how do I heat set given that it has already been done and the factthat it isa blond? I am sure that there are issues that I haven't even thought of.Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA Doug Hall from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 13 06:48:10 2001 fBDCm9t14970 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:48:09 - Subject: RE: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed Marty:That would be the right thing, you are right that the resin will interferewith the TBII's sticking. The PU will stick to anything, and it does notmake a big glue line when it foams like some think. Good thinking.If it was a crack in the bamboo itself, which would you prefer?ob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed I do not think it will stick well to the glue residuealready present on the strips. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Dec 13 07:54:28 2001 fBDDsSt16261 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:54:28 - HAA03260 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 Subject: Re: Durability If Milward is right, don't flame and keep heat treating to a minimum. Thats probably the most controversial of all the "durability" ideas.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 13 08:07:03 2001 fBDE72t16644 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:07:02 -0600 (authenticated) Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:06:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Birdie fly rods? MD, I was supposed to be getting one from a friend. But it never showed. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Looks like a Pain to me. Wasn't someone on this list supposed to be gettinga blank, or something? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 13 08:09:26 2001 fBDE9Qt16847 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:09:26 - Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed I have repaired rods like this for many years and I hold the split open with straight pins and use a sirringe filled with Titebond II to get the glue squeezed into the area. The sirringe helps to force the glue into every crack and crevice. I then hand bind the section. I have never had one fail yet in 25+ years.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I have repaired rods likethis for many years and I hold the split open with straight pins and use a years.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 13 08:11:54 2001 fBDEBrt17137 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:11:53 - Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I concur with what Marty says in this respect I was thinking this was about older rods that have delaminated. I wouldn't trust the TB II over fresh glue.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I concur with what Martysays in this respect I was thinking this was about older rods that have Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from harms1@pa.net Thu Dec 13 08:31:50 2001 fBDEVnt18448 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:31:49 - Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? Kyle, Exactly! And that's why I have taken to making my own. That way, they'llperform the way I like. Makes sense to me... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: What about Stripping Guides? I think that the only acceptable requirement for a stripping guide is that if the guide does strip they must be female [:)] (sorry, that was for Bill &Harry!) I'm eye-balling the Pay Bay Model T TiCH stripper with TiCH ring: http://www.fishpacbay.com/prod_gtfresh.html I can order one for $4, and if I don't like it when it comes in I can go in another direction. Thanks all for your input. Kyle Bill - you just don't want to get bumped by a dipstick, we got our unfair share o' dem out here on the West Coast! In a message dated Wed, 12 Dec 2001 8:19:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, "WILLIAM HARMS" writes: ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 12:01 AMSubject: What about Stripping Guides? "what type of stripping guide should I use?" "SIC, Hialoy, Ceramic, Titanium Carbide, Hardloy, Alconite... Wouldn't one of these other styles be an acceptable alternative to the agate/agatine or Mildrum style... " Well, the key word here is "acceptable." They will all work (ie., function) equally well, although I'm told that the ceramic insert type has thetoughest ring. That said, one has to wonder just how durable a ring needs to be for an ordinary flyrod. If you are double-hauling on a regular basis, using the same rod repeatedly, and frequently playing large steelhead, then I suppose the question would be relevant. Otherwise, the issue of durability seems a bit on the silly side, as all the stripping guides you mention are just fine. Moreover, because you are a builder, if a particular stripping guide doesn't perform as you might have hoped, you can always replace it. Perhaps a more important question ought to be one of ring size rather than ring composition. If you shoot line (whether hauling or not), then a ring size of 10mm or larger seems preferable. I would say that the scale (orproportion) of the guide to the size of the rod would be important too, but that's an issue of aesthetics. And, as you don't seem to mind much whattype of guide you use, the question of scale might not matter to you either. So, although you didn't want to hear this, you might as well simply follow your personal preference. For myself, I guess I'm a bit of a"traditionalist," so, thanks to a lot of great assistance from Tom Ausfeld, I am soon going to be making my own agate guides. Kyle (hoping to get bumped some time tonight by a warmed up dip tube) Oh man! I hope you meant this the other way around! cheers, Bill from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Dec 13 08:56:34 2001 fBDEuXt19658 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:56:33 - 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) Subject: Re: my new oven site Tony,This stuff is really juvenile. How about keeping it off the list and to yourself. If you must insist on imploding in public could you please do it all at once in a hurry and not drag it out.I, for one, do not care about your personal snits.Jon McAnulty At 12:42 PM 12/12/2001 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: I decided to go into the oven making business as suggested.here is the link:www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html >thanks for looking:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html from rmoon@ida.net Thu Dec 13 09:08:22 2001 fBDF8Lt20257 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:08:21 - Subject: Re: Spacing Programs, Log. Tables, etc... Eamon Lee said ell Eamon, tell me what you think. I have thebutcher slaughter theorganic- indian corn-fed -no growth hormone pumpedanimal himself, withceramic cutlery, so the steer isn't in an un-neededstate of stress, wherebyrendering a more tender-tenderloin, due to thedecreased amount of lacticacid build-up in the muscle tissue. It is hung inFrench cheese aging caves(constant humidity/temperature) for one lunar cycle.Then I have a Rabbicome by and make sure my $100,000 titanium kitchen isup to snuff. Then Imassage it with lavender garlic and vintage olive oil from a small privatelyowned (retired 32 year-old California softwareengineer) olive grove locatedin the valley where Eden supposedly was (that's whattheir web-site saysanyway.) I then use the box elder you sold me to firemy oven to exactly100C. Then, with my Emeril Lagasse endorsedspeedball-turned-flavorinjectors, I inject, on 3.025" centers, a blend ofDanish butter, groundblack cardamom, Normandy sea water and Jim Beam.Seeing as how my altitudeis 425 feet above sea-level, I roast it for exactly15.076 minutes (swisstime) per 1000 grams. Perfect medium rare every time.Am I right? Isn't thatwhat you guys do? Why are you looking at me that way?What do you guysdo!!???" Eamon,Now I am confused. I thought that Emeril said the oven should be 98C,and you tell me it should be 100C. This has confused me so much that mymeat has aged for 6 months in a steam heated grotto in YellowstonePark. Help me please.Ralph WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from rmoon@ida.net Thu Dec 13 09:17:02 2001 fBDFH1t20843 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:17:01 - 0000 Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed Are you listening Todd? Everyone seems to favor using pins to reglue delaminations. I find thatthey are a little coarse, and usually leave a little bit of the delamunglued. Rather than a pin, I use a needle and thread. Pass the needlethrough the delam pulling the thread behind. slather some Titebond IIinthe senter of the delaminatd section and then work the thread back andforth toward the ends. You may need a fairly stout thread, but I know Ican get into the ends better with the thread than with a pin,. Just my$200 worth. Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Dec 13 09:17:19 2001 fBDFHIt20929 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:17:18 - ([209.178.134.49] helo=g2t8c9) id 16EXbo-0004r0-00; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:17:16 -0800 Subject: Re: my new oven site Lets all keep personal responses about this stuff off the list. It onlykeeps the fires burning. And actually this one is burning out pretty fast. Back to rodmaking Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: my new oven site Tony,This stuff is really juvenile. How about keeping it off the list and toyourself. If you must insist on imploding in public could you please do itall at once in a hurry and not drag it out.I, for one, do not care about your personal snits.Jon McAnulty At 12:42 PM 12/12/2001 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: I decided to go into the oven making business as suggested.here is the link: www.homestead.com/bambooove ns/home.html thanks for looking:))Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop /home.html from rmoon@ida.net Thu Dec 13 09:20:37 2001 fBDFKZt21424 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:20:35 - 0000 Subject: Re: Durability Frank, I just have to jump in on this one. Durability is just likeaesthetics as far as I am concerned. If a fly rod is not a good fishingtool, making it prettier or making last longer is immaterial.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Thu Dec 13 09:30:32 2001 fBDFUVt22001 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:30:31 - Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:26:39 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:30:21 -0700 "mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: my new oven site FILETIME=[8D579E00:01C183EA] fBDFUVt22002 And all Gods children said? "Adam Vigil" 12/13/01 08:22AM >>> Lets all keep personal responses about this stuff off the list. It onlykeeps the fires burning. And actually this one is burning out pretty fast. Back to rodmaking Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: my new oven site Tony,This stuff is really juvenile. How about keeping it off the list and toyourself. If you must insist on imploding in public could you please do itall at once in a hurry and not drag it out.I, for one, do not care about your personal snits.Jon McAnulty At 12:42 PM 12/12/2001 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: I decided to go into the oven making business as suggested.here is the link: www.homestead.com/bambooove ns/home.html thanks for looking:))Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop /home.html from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Thu Dec 13 09:54:35 2001 fBDFsZt23409 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:54:35 - HAA06068 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:53:05 - HAA01474 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:54:33 - fBDFsdZ06447 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:54:40 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:54:28 -0800 Subject: glue in cracks At the violin shop I worked at, we got a hold of some bristles from a streetsweeper (spring steel), thinned them down on a disk sander and used them tospread the glue in the cracks. We used a very narrow putty knife that wealso thinned down on a disk sander to open the cracks to be able to put theglue in. We found that if we were repairing a glue joint glued with hideglue, that all we had to do was work in some boiling water, let it softenthe glue and then clamp it up without having to put any glue in. Hide glueis the only reversible glue made and the only one that you can do this with.The couple of old rods that I've repaired that's how I did it and it workedlike a charm! Just another way of skinning a ox! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Dec 13 10:57:54 2001 fBDGvrt26263 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:57:53 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:57:52 - 2114.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA19148; ETAsAhQPg99izDqr1tAUSdMd+m+avYh9rwIUJRbDWps0C9O5en0g3WaDmSi4eDQ= Subject: Squaring a quad ferrule Have thinned down some ferrules for quads. Ground a taper on some keystock,to use as a mandrel, and pounded down to square, using a plasticfaced hammer on a padded anvil. Reminds me of a blast furnace mechanic.Anybody have a better way of doing this? T.I.A. Jerry Young from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Dec 13 11:03:39 2001 fBDH3ct26702 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:03:38 - fBDH3J612613; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: buying quad ferrules? Can anybody recommend a source for quad ferrules?Thanks in advance, dws. from stoltz10@attbi.com Thu Dec 13 11:07:09 2001 fBDH79t27203 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:07:09 - Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:06:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed Ralph, that is a great idea. from homes-sold@attbi.com Thu Dec 13 11:11:58 2001 fBDHBvt27725 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:11:57 - Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:11:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Strip Heaters/A non violent oven Question Dave,I have a similar situation. I have 3 heater strips I got from Russ a =couple of years ago. They are 18" long, 750 watt, 120v each. I also have =the guts/controls out of a 220v range/cook-top. I don't know how to =wire-up the strips, 120 or 220? I think the first thing to do is notify =the fire department. Any ideas out there?Don Subject: Strip Heaters/A non violent oven Question I was given two 30" strip heaters (220v 1000w). Is it =possible to set them end to end wired off the same control to make a 5' = Dave,I have a similar situation. I have 3 = I got from Russ a couple of years ago. They are 18" long, 750 watt, 120v = also have the guts/controls out of a 220v range/cook-top. I don't know = wire-up the strips, 120 or 220? I think the first thing to do is notify = department. Any ideas out there?Don From: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:52 AMSubject: Strip Heaters/A non violent oven =Question given two 30" strip heaters (220v 1000w). Is it possible to set them end = wired off the same control to make a 5' oven? Would they heat evenly? = from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Dec 13 11:18:46 2001 fBDHIjt28235 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:18:45 - Subject: Re: Strip Heaters/A non violent oven Question rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Do you know any electricians? If not maybe the local independent appliance guy could help you. How close are you to me here in Michigan? If close to me I will help you do this since I have some experience with the ovens.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Do you know any me I will help you do this since I have some experience with the ovens.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from homes-sold@attbi.com Thu Dec 13 11:35:02 2001 fBDHZ2t29193 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:35:02 - Subject: Building Forms Due to questions to the list of how to build forms over the last couple ofmonths, I wrote an article to build wooden forms and two tools that make thejob easier. The part about cutting the groove also works for building metalforms.Todd put the article on his "Tips Website". You can view it:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Submit_a_Tip/Wood_Form/wood_form.html Hope it helps someone. Would appreciate your feed-back.Thanks, Don from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Dec 13 11:51:45 2001 fBDHpit00132 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:51:44 - id ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:45:12 -0500 id Y2QPVAXA; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:45:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Building Forms Actually, I've moved the article into a different area of the site. Thecorrect address should be:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Articles/Wood_Planing_Forms/wood_planing_forms.html You may need to cut and paste the address together, but that will getyou there. Sorry I didn't tell you about this Don. Don Schneider wrote: Due to questions to the list of how to build forms over the last couple ofmonths, I wrote an article to build wooden forms and two tools that makethejob easier. The part about cutting the groove also works for building metalforms.Todd put the article on his "Tips Website". You can view it: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Submit_a_Tip/Wood_Form/wood_form.html Hope it helps someone. Would appreciate your feed-back.Thanks, Don -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Dec 13 12:02:24 2001 Received: from fBDI2Ot01575 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 Received: from [208.219.64.15] by web11407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Ralph, I don't disagree withwhat you say, but as the one who posted the question in the first place, itwas intended as a way of bringing out discussion on what people do to make aquality product and one aspect of quality is durability. If you're selling a rodto a customer that uses a recognized taper and accepted constructiontechniques, what else are you doing as part of the construction that willassure the customer that he has wisely invested (no small sum of money tomany of us) in a fishing tool that will last and hold up to the punishment hewill dish out to it. Bill Walters --- Ralph Moon wrote: Frank, I just have to jump in on this one. Durability is just likeaesthetics as far as I am concerned. If a fly rodis not a good fishingtool, making it prettier or making last longer isimmaterial.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from stoltz10@attbi.com Thu Dec 13 14:12:17 2001 fBDKCHt06999 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:12:17 - Subject: test from stoltz10@attbi.com Thu Dec 13 15:00:34 2001 fBDL0Yt09054 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:00:34 - Subject: mini scraper I have amini scraper that I got from woodcrafters, which I like, but the =blade is awful. The metal seams very soft and only keeps an edge for a =fews pass. Does anyone know where I can pick up a better blade for this =scraper? Tim I have amini scraper that I got from = better blade for this scraper? Tim from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Dec 13 15:10:35 2001 fBDLAYt09657 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:10:34 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2112.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id NAA25626; ETAsAhUAhvc1ix+RZa3+hwS3+RrCBCqLi1gCEwKu5JB65xzP9SuZcjV7xly32OY= Subject: Re: mini scraper 2001 12:53:36 -0800 Tim - If you are talking about the Sanderson scraper, made in England, Ihave the same one and found the same thing with the blade. I heattreated and oil quenched the first 1/2" of the blade. Don't forget togive it a tempering pass with a torch. Works OK now. Jerry Young from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Thu Dec 13 15:27:33 2001 fBDLRWt10553 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:32 - Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:27 -0600 Subject: Bamboo hat Listers, touted hats, at least, are now available. Just got one from Roy Hawk, andit's very cool (well made, understated, and suited, we think, to thecraft). No financial interest, etc..., We just like this hat! Kat and David from nohackle@ipninet.com Thu Dec 13 15:46:23 2001 fBDLkMt11456 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:46:22 - Subject: Re: Bamboo hat ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo hat Listers, touted hats, at least, are now available. Just got one from Roy Hawk, andit's very cool (well made, understated, and suited, we think, to thecraft). Is there a picture of these fabled hats on any SRG site.?Bill from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Dec 13 15:46:47 2001 fBDLkkt11558 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:46:46 - Subject: Re: mini scraper I have this scraper. I cut a new blade out of a surplus plane blade with a Dremel and a cutting wheel.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Tim Stoltz wrote: I have amini scraper that I got from woodcrafters, which I like, but theblade is awful. The metal seams very soft and only keeps an edge for a fewspass. Does anyone know where I can pick up a better blade for this scraper? Tim from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 13 15:51:56 2001 fBDLptt12151 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:51:55 -0600 helo=default) id 16Edli-0006l6-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:51:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo hat They are nice, aren't they? Being a poor rodmaker I was unable to purchaseone at SRG, but to those of you who make real money at real jobs I heartilyrecommend Roy's hats. M-D Listers, touted hats, at least, are now available. Just got one from Roy Hawk, andit's very cool (well made, understated, and suited, we think, to thecraft). No financial interest, etc..., We just like this hat! Kat and David from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Dec 13 15:53:05 2001 fBDLr4t12317 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:53:04 - for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:52:35 - 1213165235; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:52:35 -0500 Subject: Steel Forms Building I finally finished my steel forms... thanks, list, for your help. The archiveswere also a tremendous resource, as was Thomas Penrose's website. Thereare other rookies out there like myself who I know are making forms rightnow, and have asked for a heads up on ways to avoid mistakes, or ways tomake the job easier, so here goes: Drilling & TappingI did not break a drill bit or a tap, I used cutting fluid. My threads were all5/16”-18, and I used an F size bit. I started the threads with a 4flute tap, then finished them with a 2 flute tap. Bought the bits and taps from McMaster-Carr. I read somewhere that the Home Depot variety wereof lower quality and susceptible to breaking. Draw FilingThe Vixen file is worth spending $20-$30 on, I think Nicholson’s Vixencopy is called a curved tooth mill file. I can file my forms from end to end inabout 15’ now. Filing is much easier if you glue or screw a block ofwood on one side of the file. Keep the file as parallel as possible to theforms, and alternate sides with each pass (file crosses over the top half ofthe form on first pass, file crosses over near side on second pass, and soon). Groove FilingI did the entire groove with a triangular file. The thread cutting tool wouldhave made the job go much faster. You need to make sure the file is cleanedevery 5 passes or so with a tooth brush or wire brush. I learned the hardway that filings can accumulate in the teeth and cause lines/gouges to beformed. Also, I ruined a file this way. Measuring the GrooveI considered several different methods before I settled on this one whichworked best for me. I would set a gap in the forms and measure the depthof the form with the indicator and attached 60* point. I used one side of asmall machinists square to set the gap in the forms, making sure thepressure on the square was as consistent as possible when tightening thecap screws. When you take an indicator reading you will be measuring thegroove depth, plus the amount the 60* contact point drops below the groovedue to the gap. Since the gap distance is known, and the target groovedimension is known, you can estimate by calculation what the indicatorreading should be: I = d + g*0.5/tan(30)= d + g/1.15= groove depth + how far the point drops below the groove I = indicator reading of form when filing, with a known gap distanced = desired groove dimensiong = gap distance You need to calibrate this equation to make sure your readings will beaccurate. To do this I filed the groove for a station on one end until I hit thetarget dimension, then compared what the equation predicted to my actualmeasurements. I then used this indicator reading to solve for the gapdistance. The square I used to set the gap had a thickness of 0.0625, butwhen I took the actual measurements of that first groove and used this asthe term “I” in the equation and solved for g, the equationyielded a gap distance on 0.0619. I then used 0.0619 as the gap distance gto determine what my indicator readings should be for all the rest of thestations. You can use a spreadsheet to setup a table that shows the stationnumber, the desired groove depth, and the corresponding indicator readingwith a known gap distance. For example, if I want a groove depth at thesecond station from the butt to be 0.150, and my gap is 0.0619, then theindicator reading should b!e = 0.150 + 0.0619/1.15 = 0.2038I would file the groove to within 2 mils of what the equation predicted foreach station, close the forms up and take measurements, and write on theforms at each station what the actual depth was. I found I could get within 2or 3 mils of my desired depth without over shooting. I then opened theforms back up, carefully set the gap, and filed at those stations that neededa little more depth. If you need 3 mils to hit the target dimension, file untilthe indicator reading changes by 3 mils. Using this method I could file to anaccuracy of +/– 1 mil. This may not be perfect, but it was goodenough for me. The alternative to this method is to file some, close up theforms and measure, open the forms back up and file some more, close theforms and measure, etc. etc. Seemed like that was going to take a lot moretime. Correcting Filing MistakesI started filing on the tip of the tip end and quickly learned that 0.020 inchesis not very deep! I ended up overshooting my tip end by about 15 mils. Ithought I was going to have to toss the forms and start over. Fortunately,the Vixen file bailed me out. If you swab layout dye on top the forms, andfile the forms flat with the Vixen until the dye is removed, you can removeapproximately 4 mils of depth on the forms at a time. I filed the tip side ofthe forms 4 times over to get the groove depth back under 20 mils. Thesame thing happened on the butt side, I over shot by about 3 mils on onestation. I swabbed it, filed the entire form, and was back in business. It iscritical to check the gap distance at each station before you start filing. What I found was that the gap would slightly change as I would file fromstation to station. DISCLAIMER: I HAVE NOT MADE ONE ROD USING THESE FORMS, SO IDON’T KNOW YET WHETHER THEY ARE A TRUE 60 DEGREES. The center gauge sets nicely in the forms, but I’ll just have to waitand see. I am sure I just confused the bejeebees out of somebody, so sendme an email if you want clear something up. Thanks again everyone, this is a great list! Kyle from dmanders@telusplanet.net Thu Dec 13 15:59:37 2001 fBDLxat12928 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:59:36 - (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:59:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Durability Bill, I've thought about the durability of rods a lot and to that end haveattempted to fish them to dead. Plus I now have a Destructive TestingDepartment consisting of one guy. If he can't break it, it can't be broke. Durability is mixed up with what some of us would consider as "good taste" oraesthetics. The only way the durability question can be answered is to agree on just whatfurniture/finishes/glues the rod will use. Items like silk wraps vs nylon,colored vs non-colored glues, epoxy vs non-epoxy on tip tops & ferrules,pining vs non-pinning, reel seat style and method of finish and so on. So if we could agree on what was acceptable on a cane rod, perhaps thequestion will be answered. Till then we have to rely on the selling price of rods to demonstrate thecustomer's wants. Of course, this is not the best indicator of durability - just whether you're dead or not, hyped the hell out of your rods or not, builtenough that folks see them and want them, built good casting rods or notand so on. So I guess, the question will never be answered. The market place willdetermine what it likes and we will follow along. catch ya' Don At 10:02 AM 12/13/01 -0800, Bill Walters wrote: Ralph, I don't disagree with what you say, but as the one who posted the question in the first place, it was intended as a way of bringing out discussion on what people do to make a quality product and one aspect of quality is durability. If you're selling a rod to a customer that uses a recognized taper and accepted construction techniques, what else are you doing as part of the construction that will assure the customer that he has wisely invested (no small sum of money to many of us) in a fishing tool that will last and hold up to the punishment he will dish out to it. Bill Walters --- Ralph Moon wrote: Frank, I just have to jump in on this one. Durability is just like aesthetics as far as I am concerned. If a fly rod is not a good fishing tool, making it prettier or making last longer is immaterial. Ralph -- WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 13 18:20:38 2001 fBE0Kbt22543 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:20:37 - Subject: RE: buying quad ferrules? http://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/index.htmlGranted, they are serrated for quadrate rods, not squared. No one makescommercially available square ferrules, being that they need to be squaredto the blank to be effective.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: buying quad ferrules? Can anybody recommend a source for quad ferrules?Thanks in advance, dws. from pcollin@rochester.rr.com Thu Dec 13 19:10:06 2001 fBE1A5t23722 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:10:05 - fBE1A4815560 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:10:04 - Subject: Recurring wrap problem I am ready to give up! Let me ask you all about a frequent roblem I =have had with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4 coats or so), then dip the =sections. When I put the first coat to the silk, it gets that lovely =transparancy. When the first coat dries, though, the evaporating =thinner creates mini voids in the thread which refuse to fill upon =application of the subequent coats. This makes a wierd kind of =irridesence in the wraps. It is not what I want, I want that nice =transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and it didn't help. Today I tried =unthinned varnish, and that didn't help either. I was told by a buddy =to always put the second coat on an hour after the first, but that =didn't help. Funny thing is, the very first rod I wrapped ( from a =professionally made blank) has absolutely no problem. That was a few =years ago and I don't remember what I might have done differently. Can =anybody offer a suggestion of what I am doing wrong? Peter Collin = about a frequent roblem I have had with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4= evaporating thinner creates mini voids in the thread which refuse to = transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and it = I was told by a buddy to always put the second coat on an hour after the = few years ago and I don't remember what I might have done = anybody offer a suggestion of what I am doing wrong? PeterCollin from "Marty D. aka \"none" Thu Dec 13 19:23:51 2001 fBE1Not24152 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:23:50 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 1.253145 secs); 14 Dec 200101:23:49 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem --------------526B9CC018DB4990A65FF1EB You get better transparancy with Tung oil varnish than Poly. Thin thefirst coat by20 to 30 percent. Even on the rods I finish with Poly I use Tung OilVarnish on the wraps. Marty"Peter A. Collin" wrote: I am ready to give up! Let me ask you all about a frequent roblem Ihave had with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4 coatsor so), then dip the sections. When I put the first coat to the silk,it gets that lovely transparancy. When the first coat dries, though,the evaporating thinner creates mini voids in the thread which refuseto fill upon application of the subequent coats. This makes a wierdkind of irridesence in the wraps. It is not what I want, I want thatnice transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and it didn'thelp. Today I tried unthinned varnish, and that didn't help either.I was told by a buddy to always put the second coat on an hour afterthe first, but that didn't help. Funny thing is, the very first rod Iwrapped ( from a professionally made blank) has absolutely no problem.That was a few years ago and I don't remember what I might have donedifferently. Can anybody offer a suggestion of what I am doingwrong? Peter Collin --------------526B9CC018DB4990A65FF1EB You get better transparancy with Tung oil varnish than Poly. Thin the firstcoat by20 to 30 percent. Even on the rods I finish with Poly I use Tung OilVarnish on the wraps. Marty"Peter A. Collin" wrote: I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4 coats or so), then dip the When the first coat dries, though, the evaporating thinner creates minivoids in the thread which refuse to fill upon application of the subequent It is not what I want, I want that nice Funny thing is, the very first rod I wrapped ( from a professionally made Collin --------------526B9CC018DB4990A65FF1EB-- from JNL123141@msn.com Thu Dec 13 20:03:26 2001 fBE23Pt25071 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:03:25 -0600 Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:03:12 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula FILETIME=[7C037080:01C18443] I have a wacky system for guide placement. I assemble the rod and lay it=on my bench then start placing guides next to the rod. I stand back and=just look at it and when the number, size and placement "looks Ok," I ma=rk the guide locations with a crayon. Its all by a gut feeling. Signed,Wacky in Northville, ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Any guide spacing system is but a suggestion of a place to start for guid=eplacement, so it doesn't matter the substrate. M-D Looking at these formulas people have posted, spacing seems fairly similar. Is there a difference for spacing and number from cane to that heathenplastic? It looks like these sites with the formulas are plastic sites= \. REC offers a spacing guide under its' tips page. Pete I have awacky= t look at it and when the number, size and placement "looks Ok," I mark t= al Message ----- From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:26 PM Subject: Re: Guide Spacing pla=ce to start for guideplacement, so it doesn't matter the substrate.M- DFrom: "Peter Van Schaack"<pvansch@wethersfield.k= posted= from channer@frontier.net Thu Dec 13 20:07:08 2001 fBE278t25425 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:07:08 - for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:21:40 - Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I put thesecond coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps and makesure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuckunder. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rodafter the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers" with it onthe wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't sayhow much tung is in it.John "Marty D. aka \"none" wrote: You get better transparancy with Tung oil varnish than Poly. Thin thefirst coat by20 to 30 percent. Even on the rods I finish with Poly I use Tung OilVarnish on the wraps. Marty"Peter A. Collin" wrote: I am ready to give up! Let me ask you all about a frequent roblem Ihave had with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4 coatsor so), then dip the sections. When I put the first coat to thesilk, it gets that lovely transparancy. When the first coat dries,though, the evaporating thinner creates mini voids in the threadwhich refuse to fill upon application of the subequent coats. Thismakes a wierd kind of irridesence in the wraps. It is not what Iwant, I want that nice transparency! I have tried real thin varnish,and it didn't help. Today I tried unthinned varnish, and thatdidn't help either. I was told by a buddy to always put the secondcoat on an hour after the first, but that didn't help. Funny thingis, the very first rod I wrapped ( from a professionally made blank)has absolutely no problem. That was a few years ago and I don'tremember what I might have done differently. Can anybody offer asuggestion of what I am doing wrong? Peter Collin from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 13 20:10:19 2001 fBE2AIt25723 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:10:18 -0600 helo=default) id 16Ehnk-0007uB-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:10:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing Formula Guide placement by divination. Now, that's a new twist. Got to love it! =;o) M-D I have a wacky system for guide placement. I assemble the rod and lay =it on my bench then start placing guides next to the rod. I stand back =and just look at it and when the number, size and placement "looks Ok," =I mark the guide locations with a crayon. Its all by a gut feeling. Signed,Wacky in Northville, From: Jojo DeLancier Any guide spacing system is but a suggestion of a place to start for =guideplacement, so it doesn't matter the substrate. M-D From: "Peter Van Schaack" pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Looking at these formulas people have posted, spacing seems fairlysimilar.Is there a difference for spacing and number from cane to that =heathenplastic? It looks like these sites with the formulas are plastic =sites.REC offers a spacing guide under its' tips page. Pete Guide placement by divination. = new twist. Got to love it! ;o) M-D John = back and just look at it and when the number, size and placement = feeling. Signed,Wacky in Northville, Jojo DeLancier substrate.M-DFrom: "Peter Van Schaack"pvansch@wethersfield.k12.c= from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 13 20:16:27 2001 fBE2GRt26048 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:16:27 -0600 helo=default) id 16Ehti-000398-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:16:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem A spar varnish penetrates better than does a polyU for doing wraps, though Ican't vouch for a tung oil being better than a linseed oil in this regard.I've used 25% thinned with good results, though each varnish will bedifferent. The range Marty gave should be sufficient. Also, it may be thatyour varnish is draining out of the wrap to the low side, which isunnoticeable until you apply the second coat. Are you turning the sectionuntil dry? M-D From: Peter A. Collin I am ready to give up! Let me ask you all about a frequent roblem I havehad with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4 coats or so), then dip the sections. When I put the first coat to the silk, it gets that lovely transparancy.When the first coat dries, though, the evaporating thinner creates minivoids in the thread which refuse to fill upon application of the subequentcoats. This makes a wierd kind of irridesence in the wraps. It is not what I want, I want that nice transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and it didn't help. Today I tried unthinned varnish, and that didn't help either. I was told by a buddy to always putthe second coat on an hour after the first, but that didn't help. Funnything is, the very first rod I wrapped ( from a professionally made blank)has absolutely no problem. That was a few years ago and I don't rememberwhat I might have done differently. Can anybody offer a suggestion of what I am doing wrong? Peter Collin from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Thu Dec 13 20:27:45 2001 fBE2Rit26498 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:27:44 - Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:27:31 -0800 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:27:31 GMT Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem FILETIME=[E208CFD0:01C18446] This is now my method and it I owe it to all of the rodmakers who chose not to keep secrets in the interest of bettering the hobby/profession as a whole. God bless 'em! The last rod I wrapped came out damn near perfect. Take extra time grinding the guide feet as well as you can to avoid massive gaps between metal, thread and bamboo. I use Persalls Naples, tip with gossamer. Distilled water applied with a Q-tip (not my fingers) keeps the thread from slipping on tipping and starting wraps. Cinch every 5-10 wraps and burnish. I use Last and Last spar varnish (thanks Ron K.), heated to about 90* un- thinned on all 4 coats applied with a clean bodkin. First coat, 1 hour, second coat, 24 hours, third coat, 24 hours, fourth coat, 1 week. I then sand bumps and tits with a series of emery boards, starting with what I believe is 600grit (pink), then 1000 (white) then 1500-2000 (grey). Dip away. The real epiphany came with the emery boards folks.Beauty supply store, dirt cheap. You ever see JD Wagners site. The wraps came out almost as good as his, no kidding! I say almost because I don't want to sound like a pre-madonna ass. I really am psyched that I FINALLY got a respectable wrap. It was bothering me too. Have fun and thanks again everyone for all of your guidance. Eamon Lee _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from goodaple@cox-internet.com Thu Dec 13 21:01:27 2001 fBE31Qt27396 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:01:26 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem I make sure to clean my hands thoroughly prior to doing my wraps. =Burnish with my fingernail every 2-3 winds and I use Gudebrod 822 rod =varnish to coat the wraps. I like this because it dries quickly, is =water based and creates a flexible coating when dry. It creates a nice =glossy look in a shorter period of time. It's all I use EXCEPT when =doing clear wraps, then I use spar varnish. Thinned. I think removing =and preventing finger oils from contaminating the wraps is critical. =Good luck, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:57 PMSubject: Recurring wrap problem I am ready to give up! Let me ask you all about a frequent roblem I =have had with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4 coats or so), then dip the =sections. When I put the first coat to the silk, it gets that lovely =transparancy. When the first coat dries, though, the evaporating =thinner creates mini voids in the thread which refuse to fill upon =application of the subequent coats. This makes a wierd kind of =irridesence in the wraps. It is not what I want, I want that nice =transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and it didn't help. Today I tried =unthinned varnish, and that didn't help either. I was told by a buddy =to always put the second coat on an hour after the first, but that =didn't help. Funny thing is, the very first rod I wrapped ( from a =professionally made blank) has absolutely no problem. That was a few =years ago and I don't remember what I might have done differently. Can =anybody offer a suggestion of what I am doing wrong? Peter Collin I make sure to clean my hands = doing my wraps. Burnish with my fingernail every 2-3 winds and I use = 822 rod varnish to coat the wraps. I like this because it dries quickly, = water based and creates a flexible coating when dry. It creates a nice = look in a shorter period of time. It's all I use EXCEPT when doing clear = then I use spar varnish. Thinned. I think removing and preventing finger = from contaminating the wraps is critical. Good luck, Randall R. Gregory = AR. ----- Original Message ----- A. Collin Sent: Thursday, December 13, = PMSubject: Recurring wrap =problem about a frequent roblem I have had with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with = evaporating thinner creates mini voids in the thread which refuse to = transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and = wrong? Collin from bob@downandacross.com Thu Dec 13 21:35:15 2001 fBE3ZEt28100 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:35:14 - Subject: RE: Recurring wrap problem Hi Pete:I use Naples or nylon for wraps (egads!). I burnish and pack the wraps witha metal burnishing tool from GW. I thin Man O War about 25% for the firstcoat, and the rest go on at full strength. I usually put the second onwithin 3-4 hours, and the next two coats after 24 hours. Works for me. Iapply it with a Stim-U-Dent toothpick. They are 150 for $1.59 at Target andwork better than anything I have ever tried. They are tapered and can beutilized in many ways. I have a Sully's rodturning jig that spins faster forapplying the finsih and slows down when you are just drying. It is nice, butthe attaching the rod sections is not ideal for bamboo.I think the MOW works better than the Helmsman PU for me, but I know otherguys who get great results (if that is what you are using). I hit the nextto last coat with steel wool (2000 grit equivalent. Works nicely. I dipbefore wrapping the guides and do a final coat over everything if needed.Basd on John Zimny's presentation on varnishes at Grayrock, I am tryingsomething new on the next rod I wrap. I bought a small black light fixtureand tube. John said that varnishes will cure very quickly under UV light, soI am going to set the black light next to the sections as they turn and getan even dose of UV. I am just curious as to what this will do to the wraps.If it works well, my next step is to hang a shop light with them in the newdrying cabinet I got the other day. I insulated the bejeebers out of it andcan get 107* in my cool basement. I can hang 10-15 sections at once! It isjust an old metal wardrobe that a friend gave me. I used the new Reflectixinsulation inside, and wrapped a hot water heater blanket around theoutside. I used the styrofoam insulation from the packaging of Bret's ovenand out some insulation on top from my old heat gun oven. It works great.Best regards, Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:57 PM Subject: Recurring wrap problem I am ready to give up! Let me ask you all about a frequent roblem I havehad with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with varnish(4 coats or so), then dip thesections. When I put the first coat to the silk, it gets that lovelytransparancy. When the first coat dries, though, the evaporating thinnercreates mini voids in the thread which refuse to fill upon application ofthe subequent coats. This makes a wierd kind of irridesence in the wraps.It is not what I want, I want that nice transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and it didn't help. Today I triedunthinned varnish, and that didn't help either. I was told by a buddy toalways put the second coat on an hour after the first, but that didn't help.Funny thing is, the very first rod I wrapped ( from a professionally madeblank) has absolutely no problem. That was a few years ago and I don'tremember what I might have done differently. Can anybody offer asuggestionof what I am doing wrong? Peter Collin Pete: burnishing tool from GW. I thin Man O War about 25% for the first coat, = rest go on at full strength. I usually put the second on within 3-4 = the next two coats after 24 hours. Works for me. I apply it with a = toothpick. They are 150 for $1.59 at Target and work better than = ever tried. They are tapered and can be utilized in many ways. I have a = rodturning jig that spins faster for applying the finsih and slows down = are just drying. It is nice, but the attaching the rod sections is not = bamboo. MOW works better than the Helmsman PU for me, but I know other guys who= great results (if that is what you are using). I hit the next to last = steel wool (2000 grit equivalent. Works nicely. I dip before wrapping = and do a final coat over everything if needed. Zimny's presentation on varnishes at Grayrock, I am trying something new = next rod I wrap. I bought a small black light fixture and tube. John = varnishes will cure very quickly under UV light, so I am going to set = light next to the sections as they turn and get an even dose of UV. I am = curious as to what this will do to the wraps. If it works well, my next = to hang a shop light with them in the new drying cabinet I got the other = insulated the bejeebers out of it and can get 107* in my cool basement. = hang 10-15 sections at once! It is just an old metal wardrobe that a = me. I used the new Reflectix insulation inside, and wrapped a hot water = blanket around the outside. I used the styrofoam insulation from the = of Bret's oven and out some insulation on top from my old heat gun oven. = works great. regards, Bob CollinSent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:57 = RodmakersSubject: Recurring wrap =problem about a frequent roblem I have had with my rods. I usually coat the wraps with = evaporating thinner creates mini voids in the thread which refuse to = transparency! I have tried real thin varnish, and = wrong? Collin from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 13 21:43:18 2001 fBE3hHt28439 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:43:17 -0600 helo=default) id 16EjFk-0007ge-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:43:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I put thesecond coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps and makesure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuckunder. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rodafter the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers" with it onthe wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't sayhow much tung is in it.John from channer@frontier.net Thu Dec 13 22:25:30 2001 fBE4PTt01230 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:25:29 -0600 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:40:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem M-D;They make both a traditional spar varnish(which is what i use) and aspar urethane, they also have a bunch of water based finishes.John Jojo DeLancier wrote: I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D From: "channer" I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I put thesecond coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps and makesure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuckunder. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rodafter the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers" with it onthe wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't sayhow much tung is in it.John from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 13 22:33:14 2001 fBE4XDt02265 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:33:13 -0600 helo=default) id 16Ek1z-0001X8-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:33:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem Thanks, John. I wasn't aware of that. We don't have either of thosevarnishes in Arkansas. I did once order some L&L. Stuff goes on really nice.Wait, I did see some MOW in Wal-Mart recently, though nothing useful forrodmaking. M-D M-D;They make both a traditional spar varnish(which is what i use) and aspar urethane, they also have a bunch of water based finishes.John Jojo DeLancier wrote: I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D From: "channer" I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I put thesecond coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps andmakesure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuck under. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rodafter the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers" with it on the wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't say how much tung is in it.John from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 14 07:36:36 2001 fBEDaYt17539 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:36:34 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" Advise Needed I wonder how it would work if you pinned the gap as well as you can then mix some epoxy then heat it till it's like water in consistency and try to get as much in as possible. I know epoxy will become a lot more fluid than any other glue I know when it's heated and it wont hurt it's stickability (I know there's no such word but it seems right). Tony At 09:08 AM 12/13/01 -0500, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I have repaired rods like this for many years and I hold the split open with straight pins and use a sirringe filled with Titebond II to get the glue squeezed into the area. The sirringe helps to force the glue into every crack and crevice. I then hand bind the section. I have never had one fail yet in 25+ years.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 09:05:59 2001 fBEF5wt20461 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:05:59 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:05:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem FILETIME=[D0700F80:01C184B0] It's called Last'nLast Marine and Door Spar Varnish. I've ordered some, but haven't used it yet. Plain last'nlast is a urethane. bill At 10:30 PM 12/13/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Thanks, John. I wasn't aware of that. We don't have either of thosevarnishes in Arkansas. I did once order some L&L. Stuff goes on really nice.Wait, I did see some MOW in Wal-Mart recently, though nothing useful forrodmaking. M-D From: "channer" M-D;They make both a traditional spar varnish(which is what i use) and aspar urethane, they also have a bunch of water based finishes.John Jojo DeLancier wrote: I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D From: "channer" I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I putthesecond coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps andmakesure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuck under. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rodafter the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers" withit on the wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't say how much tung is in it.John from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 09:22:42 2001 fBEFMgt21241 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:22:42 -0600 helo=default) id 16EuAa-0005E6-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:22:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem Wasn't aware there were two types. The Marine and Door Spar Varnish iswhatI ordered, and it is a spar-urethane, which is not to be confused with apolyurethane. M-D It's called Last'nLast Marine and Door Spar Varnish. I've ordered some, but haven't used it yet. Plain last'nlast is a urethane. bill At 10:30 PM 12/13/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Thanks, John. I wasn't aware of that. We don't have either of thosevarnishes in Arkansas. I did once order some L&L. Stuff goes on really nice. Wait, I did see some MOW in Wal-Mart recently, though nothing useful forrodmaking. M-D From: "channer" M-D;They make both a traditional spar varnish(which is what i use) and aspar urethane, they also have a bunch of water based finishes.John Jojo DeLancier wrote: I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D From: "channer" I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I put the second coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps and make sure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuck under. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rod after the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers"with it on the wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't say how much tung is in it.John from goodaple@cox-internet.com Fri Dec 14 10:10:41 2001 fBEGAet23515 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:10:40 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem /ATTN: Todd Todd, Go ahead and add it to the tips. I do want to mention that I know ofother rodmakers that do this as well so it is not MY original idea(Use ofGudebrode 822 Rod varnish for wraps). No website yet. Been meaning to getback in touch with you about that. Email me offlist about that. Thanks,Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem Randall, May I add this to the tips archive? If you have a web site, send me theaddress and I'll set up a link to it. Thanks.--I make sure to clean my hands thoroughly prior to doing my wraps.Burnish with my fingernail every 2-3 winds and I use Gudebrod 822 rodvarnish to coat the wraps. I like this because it dries quickly, iswater based and creates a flexible coating when dry. It creates a niceglossy look in a shorter period of time. It's all I use EXCEPT whendoing clear wraps, then I use spar varnish. Thinned. I think removingand preventing finger oils from contaminating the wraps is critical.Good luck, Randall R. Gregory NW AR.--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from teekay35@interlynx.net Fri Dec 14 10:11:32 2001 fBEGBVt23545 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:11:31 -0600 77B8A11E65 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:11:28 -0500 Subject: Payne Wraps I just received an 8' 0", 2 piece, Payne rod for refinish. The rod wasoriginally sold by Abercrombie & Fitch and is marked so. The wraps areburgundy color, not brown as every other Payne that I've seen. Does anyoneknow if this is the original wrap color? The rod has seen a lot of use andits possible that it was refinished at some time in the past. from trpgo@msn.com Fri Dec 14 10:19:03 2001 fBEGJ3t23780 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:03 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:18:57 -0800 Subject: Medved Beveler FILETIME=[083F4700:01C184BB] Has anyone tried to use a Remote Speed Control (like from Woodcraft) on t=heir Medved type beveler? This could help to cut down burning and chippi=ng when running the strip thru the beveler. It could also give better co=ntrol of the strips and cut down possible accidents that have been mentio=ned in prior messages. Tom Hasanyone tri=ed to use a Remote Speed Control (like from Woodcraft) on their Medved ty= l of the strips and cut down possible accidents that have been mentioned = Tom from mmihalas@mindspring.com Fri Dec 14 10:35:51 2001 fBEGZot24854 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:35:51 -0600 helo=smaug) id 16EvJK-0007Ty-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:35:46 -0500 Subject: First Rod Questions I have just joined the list and am working on my first rod. I have a fewquestions (and I am sure I will have more) maybe some of you can help with. First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course ratheruse one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II.Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I doomingmyself to a crooked rod? Second, I am in the process of looking for a varnish. I was going to go withPratt and Lambert Varmor, but I can't find it in stock anywhere within 100miles and the only store that will order it wants me to buy a minimum of twogallons. Any suggestions on other polyurethane brands? Thanks in advance! Mike Mihalas from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 10:40:32 2001 fBEGeVt25199 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:40:31 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:40:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem FILETIME=[05481FB0:01C184BE] fBEGeWt25200 I wasn't aware there was a difference. I've always used the term spar to mean a natural resin-based varnish as opposed to a "plastic" resin like polyurethane. I didn't know there was a difference between polyurethane and urethane... I just thought people used the two terms interchangeably. I'll admit that I didn't look closely at the can when I got it... I haven't gotten around to using it yet. It was recommended on the list because it apparently doesn't build up at the corners like some varnishes. I've had that problem with epiphanes. Here's the description about marine and door spar from the absolute coatings website: "Marine & Door Varnish contains a unique blend of resins and ULTRA VIOLET SCREENING AGENTS to help prevent fading and peeling caused by the rays. When used on doors or boat woodwork you'll find the product provides protection from the harsh sun and weather.USESInterior and exterior use includes boats, doors, toys, patio furniture, garage doors and other wood surfaces that should be protected against weather to retain their beauty.FEATURES˜ Dries quickly. Recoats overnight.˜ Free flowing and self leveling. Does not show brush marks.˜ Contains Ultra Violet screening agents for longer lasting sun fading protection.˜ Highly resistant to weather, abrasion, peeling, chipping, cracking, flaking.˜ Meets V.O.C. requirements in most states including N.Y. and N.J. Bill Hoy At 09:17 AM 12/14/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Wasn't aware there were two types. The Marine and Door Spar Varnish iswhatI ordered, and it is a spar-urethane, which is not to be confused with apolyurethane. M-D From: "Bill Hoy" It's called Last'nLast Marine and Door Spar Varnish. I've ordered some, but haven't used it yet. Plain last'nlast is a urethane. bill At 10:30 PM 12/13/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Thanks, John. I wasn't aware of that. We don't have either of thosevarnishes in Arkansas. I did once order some L&L. Stuff goes on really nice. Wait, I did see some MOW in Wal-Mart recently, though nothing usefulforrodmaking. M-D From: "channer" M-D;They make both a traditional spar varnish(which is what i use) and aspar urethane, they also have a bunch of water based finishes.John Jojo DeLancier wrote: I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D From: "channer" I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. Iput the second coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wrapsand make sure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuck under. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rod after the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers"with it on the wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't say how much tung is in it.John from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 11:09:56 2001 fBEH9tt27995 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:09:56 -0600 helo=default) id 16EvqI-0004ru-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:09:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem Okay, I don't profess to know a whole lot about this, but I have tried toglean enough to be conversant. John Zimny has been very informative in thisregard, and much of what I write here came from him. Perhaps he may caretoembellish this. What I personally refer to as a spar varnish is onecontaining phenolic resin. These were the first plastics, are very dark,have natural UV resistance, come in a variety of flexibilities. The higherthe resin content the glossier and harder/less flexible is the finish.Examples would be: Z-Spar Captain's Varnish, and Epiphanes. A spar- urethaneis a blend of alkyd resins and polyurethanes. These combine the best ofseveral attributes: clarity, ease of application, durability. These musthave UV additives introduced into the mixture, both absorbers andstabilizers. These are added in very specific proportions to the molerweight of the resin. Thinning the varnish renders their effectivenessuseless. Examples: Minwax Helmsman Spar, Varmoor R-10, Last & LastMarineand Door. A polyurethane varnish may, or may not be an alkyd/urethaneblend.Some are moisture reactant, some have their own catalysts which reacteitherwith the moisture or the atmosphere, probably oxygen, some require theaddition of flex additives. All are toxic. Examples: U- 40 Perma-Gloss,automotive finishes.This could go on for a while, but I think you get the idea. Certainly thereare those on this list more knowledgeable than I in this regard, and perhapsthey will correct where I may be mistaken, or add to. M-D I wasn't aware there was a difference. I've always used the term spar tomean a natural resin-based varnish as opposed to a "plastic" resin likepolyurethane. I didn't know there was a difference between polyurethane andurethane... I just thought people used the two terms interchangeably. I'lladmit that I didn't look closely at the can when I got it... I haven'tgotten around to using it yet. It was recommended on the list because itapparently doesn't build up at the corners like some varnishes. I've hadthat problem with epiphanes. Here's the description about marine and door spar from the absolutecoatings website: "Marine & Door Varnish contains a unique blend of resins and ULTRA VIOLETSCREENING AGENTS to help prevent fading and peeling caused by the rays.When used on doors or boat woodwork you'll find the product providesprotection from the harsh sun and weather.USESInterior and exterior use includes boats, doors, toys, patio furniture,garage doors and other wood surfaces that should be protected againstweather to retain their beauty.FEATURES˜ Dries quickly. Recoats overnight.˜ Free flowing and self leveling. Does not show brush marks.˜ Contains Ultra Violet screening agents for longer lasting sunfading protection.˜ Highly resistant to weather, abrasion, peeling, chipping, cracking,flaking.˜ Meets V.O.C. requirements in most states including N.Y. and N.J. Bill Hoy At 09:17 AM 12/14/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Wasn't aware there were two types. The Marine and Door Spar Varnish iswhatI ordered, and it is a spar-urethane, which is not to be confused with apolyurethane. M-D From: "Bill Hoy" It's called Last'nLast Marine and Door Spar Varnish. I've ordered some, but haven't used it yet. Plain last'nlast is a urethane. bill At 10:30 PM 12/13/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Thanks, John. I wasn't aware of that. We don't have either of thosevarnishes in Arkansas. I did once order some L&L. Stuff goes on really nice. Wait, I did see some MOW in Wal-Mart recently, though nothing useful for rodmaking. M-D From: "channer" M-D;They make both a traditional spar varnish(which is what i use) and aspar urethane, they also have a bunch of water based finishes.John Jojo DeLancier wrote: I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D From: "channer" I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I put the second coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps and make sure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuck under. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rod after the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers" with it on the wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't say how much tung is in it.John from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Dec 14 11:31:24 2001 fBEHVOt00561 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:31:24 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:31:18 -0800 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:31:18 GMT Subject: Re: First Rod Questions FILETIME=[23E9E780:01C184C5] From: "Mike Mihalas" Subject: First Rod QuestionsDate: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:35:09 -0500 I have just joined the list and am working on my first rod. I have a fewquestions (and I am sure I will have more) maybe some of you can help with. First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course ratheruse one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II.Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I doomingmyself to a crooked rod? Don't, no way, save , borrow, beg, have to have a binder. You won't want to ruin alot of work by the time you get that far. Second, I am in the process of looking for a varnish. I was going to go withPratt and Lambert Varmor, but I can't find it in stock anywhere within 100miles and the only store that will order it wants me to buy a minimum of twogallons. Any suggestions on other polyurethane brands? Quite a few use Helmsman or Man-O-War Good luckA.J. Thanks in advance! Mike Mihalas _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Dec 14 11:41:37 2001 fBEHfat01682 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:41:36 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:41:32 -0500 Subject: Re: recurring wrap problem blonde rods. And on flamed they seem to be harder to make them clear.That's what I've noticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do with =the color match . You know like when you put black behind clear you get =a mirror effect.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Has anyone noticed that wraps seem to become more transparent on = blonde rods. And on flamed they seem to be harder to make them =clear.That's what I've noticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do = color match . You know like when you put black behind clear you get a = effect.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com= from wkifer@harborside.com Fri Dec 14 12:14:37 2001 fBEIEat04150 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:14:36 -0600 Subject: Thread tensioners --=======66237937======= format=flowed All, Some time ago a Canadian company was listed as having excellent thread tensioners with numbers on them. They were six dollars apiece. When I lost my backup I list the email address for this company. Would someone please post this information again so I could contact the company. TIA Wayne --=======66237937=======-- from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Dec 14 12:17:03 2001 fBEIH2t04291 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:17:02 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:16:59 -0500 Subject: Re: recurring wrap problem blonde rods. And on flamed they seem to be harder to make them clear.That's what I've noticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do with =the color match . You know like when you put black behind clear you get =a mirror effect.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Has anyone noticed that wraps seem to become more transparent on = blonde rods. And on flamed they seem to be harder to make them =clear.That's what I've noticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do = color match . You know like when you put black behind clear you get a = effect.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com= from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Dec 14 12:17:37 2001 fBEIHZt04313 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:17:35 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:17:29 +0000 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Mike,Don't worry about not using a binder....there's many a fine rod beenglued and bound by hand.........Paul Mike Mihalas wrote: I have just joined the list and am working on my first rod. I have a fewquestions (and I am sure I will have more) maybe some of you can help with. First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course ratheruse one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II.Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I doomingmyself to a crooked rod? Second, I am in the process of looking for a varnish. I was going to go withPratt and Lambert Varmor, but I can't find it in stock anywhere within 100miles and the only store that will order it wants me to buy a minimum oftwogallons. Any suggestions on other polyurethane brands? Thanks in advance! Mike Mihalas from caneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 14 12:19:07 2001 fBEIJ6t04458 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:19:06 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Mike,No binder, no problem. Many on the list hand bind and the only problemI might see you having is the TiteBond II doesn't have a very long workingtime. You might consider the TiteBond Extend. I don't have any experiencewith it, but from what I've seen bounced around the list on it, you willhave a bit more working time with it. As for being doomed to a crookedsection, nah... just roll it out while wet and get it as straight as youcan, then when it's dry, you can use very low heat to slowly warm it up andstraighten out any sweeps you may still have. You might consider using ahair dryer for your straightening with the Tite Bond, as I don't believeit's as heat resistant as many of the age old accepted glues, like URAC,resorcinol, Epon, Nyatex, etc... Someone with more experience on TiteBondwill surely chime in on this.As for the Pratt and Lambert, I understand your delimna. I use P&LVarmor R10 and I have to drive about 80 miles to get it, and if that storeis out, It's another 70 on to the next place. Funny, Sherwin Williams nowowns Pratt and Lambert, but I'm having a hard time getting the local SWStore to keep it. There are a lot of good varnishes out there. Pratt andLambert is just one of many that make a good rod varnish. A search of thearchives or suggestions from others that will respond to your email willprobably turn up a good many varnishes that you can get locally. One time,it was time to replace my P&L, but I didn't have time to get away and drivethe 80 miles to get a gallon, so I went to a local hardware store and boughta gallon of cheap outdoor gloss Poly to finish a few rods with. I didseveral rods with this, including the infamous "Snake Rod". The snake rodis apart for new ferrules and reel seat now, but the finish on it held upgreat! That was in 1991 or 92 when I made the Snake rod and it's castedprobably thousands of miles of line, been thrown without a rod tube in theback of the truck, beat on, dropped, taken unexpected trips down waterfallswith me, gone white water rafting without a raft with me and it is still invery acceptable condition. Of course, I'll refinish it since I have itdown for ferrules, but if it hadn't been for a bent ferrule, I wouldn't havetouched it for another 10 years, if then. What I'm saying is, don't get toohung up on brand names. Find an acceptable varnish that you like and stickwith it... if it's P&L you decide on, a gallon will last a LONG time, soit's not like you're going to have to make that 100 mile drive every fewmonths to replace it. later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: First Rod Questions I have just joined the list and am working on my first rod. I have a fewquestions (and I am sure I will have more) maybe some of you can help with. First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course ratheruse one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I doomingmyself to a crooked rod? Second, I am in the process of looking for a varnish. I was going to go with Pratt and Lambert Varmor, but I can't find it in stock anywhere within 100miles and the only store that will order it wants me to buy a minimum of two gallons. Any suggestions on other polyurethane brands? Thanks in advance! Mike Mihalas from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 14 12:19:11 2001 fBEIJAt04465 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:19:10 -0600 Dec 2001 10:19:10 PST Subject: Re: Recurring wrap problem Rodmakers discussion group i use minwax helmsman spar. it also is a urethane butnot a poly. timothy --- Bill Hoy wrote: I wasn't aware there was a difference. I've alwaysused the term spar to mean a natural resin-based varnish as opposed to a"plastic" resin like polyurethane. I didn't know there was a differencebetween polyurethane and urethane... I just thought people used the two termsinterchangeably. I'll admit that I didn't look closely at the can when Igot it... I haven't gotten around to using it yet. It was recommended onthe list because it apparently doesn't build up at the corners like somevarnishes. I've had that problem with epiphanes. Here's the description about marine and door spar from the absolute coatings website: "Marine & Door Varnish contains a unique blend ofresins and ULTRA VIOLET SCREENING AGENTS to help prevent fading and peelingcaused by the rays. When used on doors or boat woodwork you'll find theproduct provides protection from the harsh sun and weather.USESInterior and exterior use includes boats, doors,toys, patio furniture, garage doors and other wood surfaces that should beprotected against weather to retain their beauty.FEATURES˜ Dries quickly. Recoats overnight.˜ Free flowing and self leveling. Does notshow brush marks.˜ Contains Ultra Violet screening agents forlonger lasting sun fading protection.˜ Highly resistant to weather, abrasion,peeling, chipping, cracking, flaking.˜ Meets V.O.C. requirements in most statesincluding N.Y. and N.J. Bill Hoy At 09:17 AM 12/14/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancierwrote: Wasn't aware there were two types. The Marine and Door Spar Varnish is what I ordered, and it is a spar-urethane, which is not to be confused with a polyurethane. M-D From: "Bill Hoy" It's called Last'nLast Marine and Door Spar Varnish. I've ordered some, but haven't used it yet. Plain last'nlast is a urethane. bill At 10:30 PM 12/13/2001 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Thanks, John. I wasn't aware of that. We don't have either of those varnishes in Arkansas. I did once order some L&L. Stuff goes on really nice. Wait, I did see some MOW in Wal-Mart recently, though nothing useful for rodmaking. M-D From: "channer" M-D;They make both a traditional spar varnish(which is what i use) and a spar urethane, they also have a bunch of water based finishes. John Jojo DeLancier wrote: I believe the MOW is a spar, while the L&L is a spar-urethane. M-D From: "channer" I have had the best luck with Man-O-War warmed, not thinned. I put the second coat on as soon as the first coat sinks into the wraps and make sure to fill the voids along side the guide feet and where the tags tuck under. I like Last&Last spar varnish for the finish on the whole rod after the wraps are coated, but have had the worst"shimmers" with it on the wraps, it says on the can that it is 10% tung oil, M-O-W doesn't say how much tung is in it.John ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from Dkenney94@cs.com Fri Dec 14 12:29:47 2001 fBEITlt04906 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:29:47 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:29:34 - Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Build a binder!!! Shouldn't take more than a few hours & cost is minimal ($25 or less) Binding by hand is feasible but Tightbond is a fast setting glue & you'll use up a lot of time in hand binding that would be better spent on straightening before glue setup, & trust me if you bind by hand it will need straightening. If you're dead set on hand binding do several dry practice runs cause it gets harder when you're hands arecovered in glue! Finally, in a pinch you can just build the binder cradles, hang a weight on the belt & just pull the belt manually. Binder pulleys ad efficiency & convenience to a binder, but aren't 100% needed for function. But I strongly suggest building a binder!Have Fun,Dave few hours & cost is minimal ($25 or less) Binding by hand is feasible butTightbond is a fast setting glue & you'll use up a lot of time in handbinding that would be better spent on straightening before glue setup, &trust me if you bind by hand it will need straightening. If you're deadset on hand binding do several dry practice runs cause it gets harder whenyou're hands are covered in glue! Finally, in a pinch you can just build thebinder cradles, hang a weight on the belt & just pull the belt manually.Binder pulleys ad efficiency & convenience to a binder, but aren't 100%needed for function. But I strongly suggest building a binder! from stoltz10@attbi.com Fri Dec 14 12:44:00 2001 fBEIi0t05481 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:44:00 -0600 Subject: fuzzy edges I,m final planing the tips fo my first rod and I'm noticing that when I =scrape that final thoughsands that the edge is a little fuzzy, how do I =get rid of the fuzz? tim I,m final planing the tips fo my first = noticing that when I scrape that final thoughsands that the edge is a = fuzzy, how do I get rid of the fuzz? tim from caneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 14 13:02:05 2001 fBEJ24t08238 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:02:05 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: recurring wrap problem Tony,They're actually no more clear, it's just that the background on a =blonde rod camoflauges the silvering in the wraps. If a method doesn't =get them clear on a flamed rod, then you can count on that same method =not getting them clear on a blonde, it's just not as noticable. Keep in =mind that the "silvering" is nothing more than minute air pockets caught =in the wraps. Put them against a light background and they aren't as =visible. Put them against a dark background and the same ones stand out =like a sore thumb. Getting clear wraps isn't that hard, just takes a =LOT of attention to detail in the wraps... sometimes takes some rubbing =or pounding. I "pound" the air pockets out of the thread with the =metal barrell on the 1/8" straight shader brush that I use to put the =finish on the wraps. Actually not pounding, just light taps on the =silvered areas and those air bubbles will float out as the tapping is =forcing the spar into the threads. There are some expensive varnishes =out there that will do just as good of a job with a lot less effort, for =example, Alchemist brand Amber Varnish at $28 an ounce, but still, the =wraps don't just miracle themselves clear... it does take a concerted =effort, especially if you're going with white silk to make invisible =wraps... one little mistake on those and it stands out like a sort =thumb. Colors like Brown, Scarlet, dark green, etc., tend to hide the =silvering in themselves quite a lot. Lighter colors like white, light =olive, etc., tend to make the silvering stand out. But, if it shows in =the light, and you're using the same method on the darker threads, it is =still there... just not easily visible. Later,Bob Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Re: recurring wrap problem blonde rods. And on flamed they seem to be harder to make them clear.That's what I've noticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do with =the color match . You know like when you put black behind clear you get =a mirror effect.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Tony, = count on that same method not getting them clear on a blonde, it's just = just takes a LOT of attention to detail in the wraps... sometimes takes = with the metal barrell on the 1/8" straight shader brush that I use to = out there that will do just as good of a job with a lot less effort, for = example, Alchemist brand Amber Varnish at $28 an ounce, but still, the = especially if you're going with white silk to make invisible wraps... = Scarlet, dark green, etc., tend to hide the silvering in themselves = visible. Later,Bob Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Tony = Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001= AMSubject: Re: recurring wrap =problem Has anyone noticed that wraps seem to become more transparent on = clear.That's what I've noticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do = color match . You know like when you put black behind clear you get a = effect.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com= from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Dec 14 13:10:33 2001 fBEJAWt08809 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:10:32 -0600 by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2114.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA26039; ETAsAhRZcgwuEkH0zAbBYgtdIERFKQdbAQIUc3Nf/iuW17AONedogqfbT8aBodw= Subject: Re: fuzzy edges 2001 10:35:16 -0800 Tim - Gently roll the strip between the palms of your hands - it willcome right off. Trying to sand it off might ruin the integrity of thesharp edge. Regards, Jerry Young from ctcaneman@yahoo.com Fri Dec 14 13:24:47 2001 fBEJOkt09956 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:24:46 -0600 14 Dec 2001 11:24:42 PST Subject: Blanks Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from caneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 14 13:33:52 2001 fBEJXpt10751 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:33:51 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: fuzzy edges Jerry's right... I don't do it so gently. I get pretty agressive with =it. I just put all six strips for a section together and roll them =between the palms of my hands until the fuzzies are gone. If you ever =had a chance to see the tape "Winston Waters", there is a section of it =that shows Glenn Brackett rolling strips this way to get the edges =clean. You can't really see it in the video, but those minutes =splinters will just float away as you roll the strips.Troy Miller was here this past week and he saw me do it. Troy? =There will be non-believers that think it will screw up the edges, so =tell them how well it works. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: fuzzy edges I,m final planing the tips fo my first rod and I'm noticing that when =I scrape that final thoughsands that the edge is a little fuzzy, how do =I get rid of the fuzz? tim roll them between the palms of my hands until the fuzzies are = ever had a chance to see the tape "Winston Waters", there is a section = that shows Glenn Brackett rolling strips this way to get the edges = You can't really see it in the video, but those minutes splinters will = float away as you roll the strips. screw up the edges, so tell them how well it works. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Tim = Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001= PMSubject: fuzzy edges I,m final planing the tips fo my = I'm noticing that when I scrape that final thoughsands that the edge = little fuzzy, how do I get rid of the fuzz? tim from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Dec 14 13:34:32 2001 fBEJYWt10905 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:34:32 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:23 - Subject: Re: Blanks OH NOOOO!!!!!!I'm going to unsubscribe for a couple of days!!!! In a message dated 12/14/01 11:25:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, ctcaneman@yahoo.com writes: I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. OH NOOOO!!!!!!I'm going to unsubscribe for a couple of days!!!! In a message dated 12/14/01 11:25:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,ctcaneman@yahoo.com writes:I am new to cane, and thought formy first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Dec 14 13:35:09 2001 fBEJZ8t11058 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:35:08 -0600 2001 -0500 2001 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:26:30 -0500 id ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:22:11 -0500 Subject: RE: First Rod Questions this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Indeed it should take no more than a few hours and less than $30 or so. TryTom Smithwick's version of the binder. Maybe someone on the listrememberswhere the plans are on the web. The archives should have info as well. Itworks great... -----Original Message----- Dkenney94@cs.com Build a binder!!! ...snip... Indeed it should take no more than a few hours and less than $30 or so.Try Tom Smithwick's version of the binder. Maybe someone on the listremembers where the plans are on the web. The archives should have info as well. It works great... -----Original Message-----From: owner- from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 13:51:21 2001 fBEJpKt12194 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:51:20 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:51:10 -0500 Subject: Re: recurring wrap problem FILETIME=[ADD0A8E0:01C184D8] At 12:56 PM 12/14/2001 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: SNIP ...There are some expensive varnishes out there that will do just as good of a job with a lot less effort, for example, Alchemist brand Amber Varnish at $28 an ounce, but still, the wraps don't just miracle themselves clear... it does take a concerted effort, especially if you're going with white silk to make invisible wraps... one little mistake on those and it stands out like a sort thumb. .... Later,Bob Somebody, I think it was Harry, said they had been getting good results with Damar varnish. I did a search for their web page and it looks very interesting. Has anybody tried this... and is it compatible with varnishes, urethanes and polys? Bill from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 13:52:14 2001 fBEJqEt12301 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:52:14 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:52:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks FILETIME=[D404A0C0:01C184D8] uh oh.... At 11:24 AM 12/14/2001 -0800, Paul Hamm wrote: Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Dec 14 14:02:20 2001 fBEK2Jt13085 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:02:19 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:31:17 -0500 Subject: Re:recurring wrap problem Thanks BobThat helps alot.:)I think wraps are the hardest thing to get right and I know from my =experiences that I can use alot of work on my wraps. really nice but ever since I switched to varnish it has been a real =chore to make them look good.Also when I first started I used nylon instead of silk which was also =easier and produced a more transparent look.So when I went from restorations to making I wanted to be authenticand use silk and varnish.I'm wondering now since I hate that part of the procedure , if it was = Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Thanks BobThat helps alot.:)I think wraps are the hardest thing to get right and I know from my = experiences that I can use alot of work on my wraps. =out really nice but ever since I switched to varnish it has been a real = to make them look good. So when I went from restorations to making I wanted to be =authenticand use silk and varnish. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com= from caneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 14 14:03:31 2001 fBEK3Ut13220 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:03:30 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:27:24 -0600 Subject: Two New Rods List Folk,I guess you figured out by my last post that Troy Miller came up fromHouston this week. Troy, in his modesty, probably won't mention it, but hegot his first blank in the string while he was here. He did a fine job,even though I'm sure he thinks by now that I'm a slave driver. He got hereat 9pm Sunday night and we stayed up until 5am talking fishing and bamboo.Needless to say, we didn't get a very early start on Monday. I figure weput in about 5 hours monday and had everything roughed out and the buttandmid of his rod tapered. I made him shut down early, because I had to go tryout a new Cue Stick I was thinking about buying at my local watering hole.Bought the cue stick by the way! 9 ball is my second love, bamboo myfirst... *S* Tuesday morning I had some errands to run, so we didn't get anearly start again, but he left here that night with a 7'6" 3/2 blank gluedup and ready for the "hard" work. His method was so smooth and definedthatI even conned him into planing a mid for a rod that I'm building for MYSELF(one of those, had it ready, broke it, had to build another, things).Those of you that met Troy at SRG know he's a nice guy and a fantasticcaster... Can't wait to get him back up here to hit some of our Okie trouton his first cane rod.Congratulations, Troy! Don't know if I said it before you left, but youdid a fine job and I enjoyed your company for the two days you were here.Wish you could have stayed long enough to get that puppy final sanded andferruled.As an addendum to this, Troy also saw my 14 year old sons first rod withreel seat, ferrules, grip, winding check and ferrule wraps in place. Theboy is making a 7' 2pc 4 wt and it is a dandy. Troy will attest that thekid made a VERY fine first rod and that he is well on his way to being arodmaker. Thing is, even though he had this obsessive compulsive baldingold fart standing over his shoulder every minute, Tyler, my son, LOVEDmaking the rod. He is only here two days every two weeks, but he's alreadycalled today and wanted to know if when he gets here tonite, he can finishwrapping the rod.Yeah, I'm bragging a bit, because I'm damn proud of him. His first rodis going to look better than my 20th rod did. He is getting a bit full ofhimself already, though... he's already pointed out that by the time he's18, he'll be better at it than I am! LOL I hope he is! Later,Bob (brag mode now set to "OFF") R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Fri Dec 14 14:04:45 2001 fBEK4ht13404 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:04:43 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:00:50 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:04:35 -0700 "ctcaneman@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Blanks FILETIME=[067AC290:01C184DA] fBEK4jt13412 Paul,A good question! Try a search in rodmakers archives. I think you will findmore information than you need. Jim "Paul Hamm" 12/14/01 12:24PM >>> Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid athttp://auctions.yahoo.com > from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Dec 14 14:06:412001 fBEK6et13729 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:06:40 -0600 Subject: Fly Fisherman Magazine Someone had wanted the list of FFM mags that I had for sale but I lost their address when the AOL server crashed, would that person please email me off list if you are still interested.Thanks,Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Someone had wanted thelist of FFM mags that I had for sale but I lost their address when the AOLserver crashed, would that person please email me off list if you are stillinterested.Thanks,Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Fri Dec 14 14:07:37 2001 fBEK7at13919 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:07:36 -0600 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Blanks Paul,I have never seen one of Georges blanks, I do remeber I wore out my 'D' keyon the keyboard the last time is name was mentioned. Hence the responsethusfar. My opinion is to bypass the blank thing and learn to build a rod fromscratch. In the meantime, so you will at least look cool at the stream, byan older one, like a Heddon or Grainger, or even an H-I. You can get themreasonable and if you don't like them odds are you can get back what youpaid for them (if your careful to not screwed in the first place). They willfish fine and you've got a bamboo rod. The blank is the heart and soul ofthe bamboo rod, the rest is just jewelery. If you have your heart set ongoing the blank way, you would better off buying a quality blank fromsomeone, then go cheap on the hardware than the otherway around. You getwhat you pay for. A ugly good rod fishes far better than a pretty broomhandle or willow stick. Beware, this a not a hobby for the faint of heart (or wallet).......good lucktom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Blanks Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Dec 14 14:18:05 2001 fBEKI4t14772 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:18:05 -0600 id ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:11:32 -0500 id Y2QPVB3W; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:11:30 -0500 Subject: Tips additions Just to let everyone know, I've added a small group of tips to the sitetoday. I have a bunch of them to be added yet, but I've been working onthe site on and off all week and wanted to get this update out. Keepthe tips coming.-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Dec 14 15:08:11 2001 Received: from fBEL8At17000 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:08:04 -0000 Received: from hdsl110.slkc.uswest.net (HELO ?10.0.0.3?) 21:08:04 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:08:04 -0700 Message-ID:From: "Jason Swan" rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi y'all, I just realized that afew years ago my father gave me the rod his father used (I think). Anyway,there are no company labels on the rod except for the hand written name"Ike Walton." Any ideas? It was wrapped in orange/black (probably white oryellow under the varnish, I don't recall) variegated thread and it has whatcould be NP brass or NS ferrules (I can't tell because it is still bright withoutany brass wearing through). It also has a red aluminum reel seat that couldbe an after market job, but I don't think so. Anyone have any info on thatone? I don't know anything about it, but the finish was so checked and stickythat I stripped it and refinished (except the name area). I will just use it tofish with, I suppose. I'm not too into wall hanging tools and equipment. But,thought I might like to know who built it. Thanks, Jason >Fromcaneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 14 15:26:46 2001 Received: from Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:50:35 -0600 Message-ID:From: "Bob Nunley" References:Subject: Re: Ike Walton Date: Fri, MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 caneman@clnk.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENJason, It's a Horrocks-Ibbotson rod. Later, Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrods http://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:08 PMSubject: Ike Walton Hi y'all, I just realized that a few years ago my father gave me the rod his fatherused (I think). Anyway, there are no company labels on the rod except forthe hand written name "Ike Walton." Any ideas? It was wrapped inorange/black (probably white or yellow under the varnish, I don't recall)variegated thread and it has what could be NP brass or NS ferrules (I can't tell because it is still bright without any brass wearing through). It also has a red aluminum reel seat that could be an after market job, but I don't think so. Anyone have any info on that one? I don't know anything about it, but thefinish was so checked and sticky that I stripped it and refinished (exceptthe name area). I will just use it to fish with, I suppose. I'm not toointo wall hanging tools and equipment. But, thought I might like to knowwho built it. Thanks, Jason from goodaple@cox-internet.com Fri Dec 14 15:33:59 2001 fBELXwt18220 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:33:58 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Interestingly enough, I have a binder but never use it. I still bind everyrod by hand. I guess I just prefer it. Doesn't do much for my carpel tunnelthough. Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Mike,Don't worry about not using a binder....there's many a fine rod beenglued and bound by hand.........Paul Mike Mihalas wrote: I have just joined the list and am working on my first rod. I have a fewquestions (and I am sure I will have more) maybe some of you can help with. First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course rather use one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I dooming myself to a crooked rod? Second, I am in the process of looking for a varnish. I was going to go with Pratt and Lambert Varmor, but I can't find it in stock anywhere within 100 miles and the only store that will order it wants me to buy a minimum of two gallons. Any suggestions on other polyurethane brands? Thanks in advance! Mike Mihalas from mmihalas@mindspring.com Fri Dec 14 15:50:40 2001 fBELoet19041 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:50:40 -0600 helo=smaug) id 16F0Dz-0002AK-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:50:35 -0500 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Thanks to everyone for their help on my questions! I am going to go tonightto get the parts to build a binder on Tony Miller's plans. A couple offollow-up questions: Comments about the working time and heat straigtening problems ofTitebondII got me thinking I might look into using Resourcinol instead -- does ithave to be measured by weight? This would mean another purchase (scales)forme and the budget is tight. Does anyone have a way or formula so I can mixresourcinol by volume somehow? Thanks Again, Mike Mihalas from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Dec 14 15:52:55 2001 fBELqst19313 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:52:54 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:51:36 -0500 Subject: Rods I have a customer who is interested in selling some rods.I have absolutely NO financial interest in it and I'm just trying to =help him out.:)They are a Granger Aristocrat, Phillipson Dry Fly Special, and a HeddonBill Stanley Favorite. He has relayed to me they are all A+ condition.Contact me off list and I will relay his email to you if interested.And you can work the details out with him.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I have a customer who is interested in selling some rods. help him out.:) Heddon = condition. interested.And you can work the details out with him.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Dec 14 15:55:12 2001 fBELtBt19557 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:55:12 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:53:53 -0500 Subject: Glad I could help Mike, Glad I could help!:)If you have any questions just email me and I'd be happy to answer them.Welcome to the list!!!Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Mike, Glad I could help!:) them.Welcome to the list!!!Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from alan.grombacher@pioneer.com Fri Dec 14 16:02:03 2001 fBEM22t20275 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:02:02 -0600 14 Dec 2001 17:01:56 -0500 id ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:01:48 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Blanks Paul, If you are going to buy a blank - try A.J. Thramer or Mark Ruhe. These twoguys are good. And there are several more on the list that make top notchquality blanks. Cheers, Alberta Al P.S. no financial interest blah blah - I just know that there stuff is good. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Blanks Paul,A good question! Try a search in rodmakers archives. I think you willfind more information than you need. Jim "Paul Hamm" 12/14/01 12:24PM >>> Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid athttp://auctions.yahoo.com > from Dkenney94@cs.com Fri Dec 14 16:11:092001 fBEMB8t20796 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:11:08 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:10:57 - Subject: Re: Blanks Paul, To be on this list you have to remove the "G" from your keyboard. have to remove the "G" from your keyboard. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 16:28:58 2001 fBEMSvt21606 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:28:57 -0600 helo=default) id 16F0p7-0004Jk-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:28:57 -0500 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions I'd be more inclined to suggest a polyurethane glue, i.e, Gorilla Glue,ProBond II, etc. What do some of you guys who use this think? Does he haveenough working time to bind and straighten, considering this is his firstrod? I don't think the TiteBond, nor the resorcinol will give you enoughtime, at all. M-D Thanks to everyone for their help on my questions! I am going to go tonight to get the parts to build a binder on Tony Miller's plans. A couple offollow-up questions: Comments about the working time and heat straigtening problems ofTitebondII got me thinking I might look into using Resourcinol instead -- does ithave to be measured by weight? This would mean another purchase(scales) for me and the budget is tight. Does anyone have a way or formula so I can mixresourcinol by volume somehow? Thanks Again, Mike Mihalas from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Dec 14 16:29:44 2001 fBEMTht21743 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:29:43 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:29:38 -0800 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:29:37 GMT Subject: Re: First Rod Questions FILETIME=[D0B7E4C0:01C184EE] the resorscinol is very easy to use and the directions are on the can to mix it by volumeA.J. From: "Mike Mihalas" Subject: Re: First Rod QuestionsDate: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:49:53 -0500 Thanks to everyone for their help on my questions! I am going to go tonightto get the parts to build a binder on Tony Miller's plans. A couple offollow-up questions: Comments about the working time and heat straigtening problems ofTitebondII got me thinking I might look into using Resourcinol instead -- does ithave to be measured by weight? This would mean another purchase (scales) forme and the budget is tight. Does anyone have a way or formula so I can mixresourcinol by volume somehow? Thanks Again, Mike Mihalas _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 16:32:34 2001 fBEMWYt22112 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:32:34 -0600 helo=default) id 16F0sb-0004RB-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:32:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks Paul, There are any number of people on this list, some professionals, someamateurs, who would be more than willing to make you a blank; some would bein the same price range, some will be higher; all would be of high quality.Take your pick. BTW, you won't get a response to your original question. M-D Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 16:37:30 2001 fBEMbTt22458 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:37:29 -0600 helo=default) id 16F0xM-000235-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:37:29 -0500 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Mike, As always, Bob has given you the benefit of years of rodmaking experience. One of the things I've learned about varnishes is that they are remarkablysimilar in quality. Some do certain things better, some are glossier,harder, etc., a result of their chemistry, but virtually all are of the samehigh quality. Unless you have a specific quality for which you're looking, Iwouldn't get too hung up on brand names. M-D Mike,No binder, no problem. Many on the list hand bind and the only problem I might see you having is the TiteBond II doesn't have a very long workingtime. You might consider the TiteBond Extend. I don't have any experience with it, but from what I've seen bounced around the list on it, you willhave a bit more working time with it. As for being doomed to a crookedsection, nah... just roll it out while wet and get it as straight as youcan, then when it's dry, you can use very low heat to slowly warm it up and straighten out any sweeps you may still have. You might consider using ahair dryer for your straightening with the Tite Bond, as I don't believeit's as heat resistant as many of the age old accepted glues, like URAC,resorcinol, Epon, Nyatex, etc... Someone with more experience on TiteBondwill surely chime in on this.As for the Pratt and Lambert, I understand your delimna. I use P&LVarmor R10 and I have to drive about 80 miles to get it, and if that storeis out, It's another 70 on to the next place. Funny, Sherwin Williams nowowns Pratt and Lambert, but I'm having a hard time getting the local SWStore to keep it. There are a lot of good varnishes out there. Pratt andLambert is just one of many that make a good rod varnish. A search ofthearchives or suggestions from others that will respond to your email willprobably turn up a good many varnishes that you can get locally. One time, it was time to replace my P&L, but I didn't have time to get away and drive the 80 miles to get a gallon, so I went to a local hardware store and bought a gallon of cheap outdoor gloss Poly to finish a few rods with. I didseveral rods with this, including the infamous "Snake Rod". The snake rodis apart for new ferrules and reel seat now, but the finish on it held upgreat! That was in 1991 or 92 when I made the Snake rod and it's castedprobably thousands of miles of line, been thrown without a rod tube in theback of the truck, beat on, dropped, taken unexpected trips down waterfalls with me, gone white water rafting without a raft with me and it is still in very acceptable condition. Of course, I'll refinish it since I have itdown for ferrules, but if it hadn't been for a bent ferrule, I wouldn't have touched it for another 10 years, if then. What I'm saying is, don't get too hung up on brand names. Find an acceptable varnish that you like and stick with it... if it's P&L you decide on, a gallon will last a LONG time, soit's not like you're going to have to make that 100 mile drive every fewmonths to replace it. later,Bob From: "Mike Mihalas" I have just joined the list and am working on my first rod. I have a fewquestions (and I am sure I will have more) maybe some of you can help with. First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course rather use one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I dooming myself to a crooked rod? Second, I am in the process of looking for a varnish. I was going to go with Pratt and Lambert Varmor, but I can't find it in stock anywhere within 100 miles and the only store that will order it wants me to buy a minimum of two gallons. Any suggestions on other polyurethane brands? Thanks in advance! Mike Mihalas from BambooRods@aol.com Fri Dec 14 16:53:50 2001 fBEMrnt23217 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:53:49 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:53:35 -0500 Subject: Delamination "kinda" One more ? Thanks for all the advice.... one more question. Having repaired as advised, will the TB II hold up to the heat from straightening? I am going to need to get rid of a long sweep that is in the tip. TIADoug from mverschoore@msn.com Fri Dec 14 17:00:48 2001 fBEN0lt23562 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:00:47 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:59:44 -0800 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions FILETIME=[05E64160:01C184F3] www.canerod.com/Tools/Docs/SmithwickEZBinder.pdf Subject: RE: First Rod Questions Indeed it should take no more than a few hours and less than $30 or =so. Try Tom Smithwick's version of the binder. Maybe someone on the list =remembers where the plans are on the web. The archives should have info =as well. It works great... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = www.canerod.com/Tools/Docs/SmithwickEZBinder.pdf ----- Original Message ----- Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com = Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001= PMSubject: RE: First Rod =Questions Indeed it should take no more than a few hours and less than $30 or = Tom Smithwick's version of the binder. Maybe someone on the list = where the plans are on the web. The archives should have info as well. = works great... -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Dec 14 17:00:53 2001 fBEN0qt23567 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:00:52 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:00:46 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:49:05 -0600 Subject: RE: fuzzy edges Bob is 100% correct. I wasn't too worried on the butt and mids, but thosedelicate tips.... Let's just say that I'm glad it was Bob that was doingthe rolling. It does work like a charm, about 95% of the fuzzies are gone,and just a tiny bit of sanding will remove the rest. The edges were notharmed in any way that I could see. When the sections were glued up, theywere tight and as near-perfect as I could expect on my first attempt. Maybeworth mentioning -- Bob's technique involves leaving the enamel intactuntil the final sanding. If you are scraping/sanding enamel prior toglue- up, then you might factor this in.... TAM-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: fuzzy edges Jerry's right... I don't do it so gently. I get pretty agressive with it.I just put all six strips for a section together and roll them between thepalms of my hands until the fuzzies are gone. If you ever had a chance tosee the tape "Winston Waters", there is a section of it that shows GlennBrackett rolling strips this way to get the edges clean. You can't reallysee it in the video, but those minutes splinters will just float away as youroll the strips.Troy Miller was here this past week and he saw me do it. Troy? Therewill be non- believers that think it will screw up the edges, so tell themhow well it works. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- OriginalMessage ----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent:Friday, December 14, 2001 12:35 PMSubject: fuzzy edges I,m final planing the tips fo my first rod and I'm noticing that when Iscrape that final thoughsands that the edge is a little fuzzy, how do I getrid of the fuzz? tim from cathcreek@hotmail.com Fri Dec 14 17:13:22 2001 fBENDLt24319 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:13:21 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:13:08 -0800 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:13:08 GMT Subject: Re: First Rod Questions FILETIME=[E489D750:01C184F4] I use resorcinal on my rods and I mostly hand bind them. Works fine for me. Rob Clarke From: "Jojo DeLancier" Subject: Re: First Rod QuestionsDate: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:28:54 -0600 I'd be more inclined to suggest a polyurethane glue, i.e, Gorilla Glue,ProBond II, etc. What do some of you guys who use this think? Does he haveenough working time to bind and straighten, considering this is his firstrod? I don't think the TiteBond, nor the resorcinol will give you enoughtime, at all. M-D From: "Mike Mihalas" Thanks to everyone for their help on my questions! I am going to go tonight to get the parts to build a binder on Tony Miller's plans. A couple offollow-up questions: Comments about the working time and heat straigtening problems of Titebond II got me thinking I might look into using Resourcinol instead -- does it have to be measured by weight? This would mean another purchase(scales) for me and the budget is tight. Does anyone have a way or formula so I can mix resourcinol by volume somehow? Thanks Again, Mike Mihalas _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 17:27:35 2001 fBENRYt25052 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:27:34 -0600 helo=default) id 16F1jp-0005jm-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:27:34 -0500 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions There ya' go. The voice of experience. My concern was that he might nothaveenough time with this being his first rod. M-D I use resorcinal on my rods and I mostly hand bind them. Works fine for me. Rob Clarke From: "Jojo DeLancier" I'd be more inclined to suggest a polyurethane glue, i.e, Gorilla Glue,ProBond II, etc. What do some of you guys who use this think? Does he have enough working time to bind and straighten, considering this is his firstrod? I don't think the TiteBond, nor the resorcinol will give you enoughtime, at all. M-D from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 14 17:36:10 2001 fBENaAt25530 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:36:10 -0600 ;Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:36:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Blanks Me too. I know just how this is going to turn out. Jack Me too. I know just how this is going = out. Jack from goodaple@cox-internet.com Fri Dec 14 17:44:08 2001 fBENi8t25915 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:44:08 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: First Rod Questions M-D, I use Titebond and bind by hand. However, you MUST be very efficientAND organized to beat the set time and manage to do your straightening.BUTit can be done. Goodluck, Randall G. NW AR. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: First Rod Questions I'd be more inclined to suggest a polyurethane glue, i.e, Gorilla Glue,ProBond II, etc. What do some of you guys who use this think? Does hehaveenough working time to bind and straighten, considering this is his firstrod? I don't think the TiteBond, nor the resorcinol will give you enoughtime, at all. M-D From: "Mike Mihalas" Thanks to everyone for their help on my questions! I am going to go tonight to get the parts to build a binder on Tony Miller's plans. A couple offollow-up questions: Comments about the working time and heat straigtening problems of Titebond II got me thinking I might look into using Resourcinol instead -- does it have to be measured by weight? This would mean another purchase(scales) for me and the budget is tight. Does anyone have a way or formula so I can mix resourcinol by volume somehow? Thanks Again, Mike Mihalas from "Marty D. aka \"none" Fri Dec 14 17:45:40 2001 fBENjdt26100 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:45:39 -0600 v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 2.116535 secs); 14 Dec 200123:45:38 -0000 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions To wrap by hand get a large flytying bobbin and load it with button thread(strong). Glue the blank up (I prefer Titebond II Extend as it gives you moreworking time then regular TB II) and temporaraly tape it closed in a fewspots.Now, holding the blank in one hand wrap over the thread to start and lettingthebobbin hang with a couple feet of thread out roll the blank between yourfingers so the thread spirals down the blank. When you aproach the taperemovebefore proceding. Also , when you use up the thread just pull more out. Whenyouget to the end just turn the rod over and work back crossing the wrapsalreadydone. Finish with a few half hitches . You do not need to put pressure on thethread, just the weight of the bobbin will be enough. Just be sure to rollfairly tight between your fingers. Straighten the rod and take out any twistsassoon as possible. As far as poly any good quality will do. Also the handcrampsyou experience binding by hand will give you an incentive to buy or make abinder. Marty Mike Mihalas wrote: I have just joined the list and am working on my first rod. I have a fewquestions (and I am sure I will have more) maybe some of you can help with. First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course ratheruse one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II.Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I doomingmyself to a crooked rod? Second, I am in the process of looking for a varnish. I was going to go withPratt and Lambert Varmor, but I can't find it in stock anywhere within 100miles and the only store that will order it wants me to buy a minimum oftwogallons. Any suggestions on other polyurethane brands? Thanks in advance! Mike Mihalas from "Marty D. aka \"none" Fri Dec 14 17:48:18 2001 fBENmIt26383 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:48:18 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 2.490943 secs); 14 Dec 200123:48:16 -0000 Subject: Re: recurring wrap problem --------------C170EF8991D77964A3B7B644 Hi Tony, I noticed the same exact thing. I guess because of the contrastin colors. Marty Tony Miller wrote: Has anyone noticed that wraps seem to become more transparentonblonderods. And on flamed they seem to be harder to make them clear.That'swhat I've noticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do with thecolor match . You know like when you put black behind clear you get amirror effect.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html --------------C170EF8991D77964A3B7B644 Hi Tony, I noticed the same exact thing. I guess because of the contrastin colors. MartyTony Miller wrote:BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000;BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT- FAMILY: Garamond MT} Hasanyone noticed that wraps seem to become more transparent onblonde rods.And on flamed they seem to be harder to make them clear.That's what I'venoticed. I'm not sure if it has something to do with the color match .You know like when you put black behind clear you get a mirror effect.TonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html --------------C170EF8991D77964A3B7B644-- from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 14 17:50:53 2001 fBENoqt26706 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:50:52 -0600 ;Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:50:46 +0000 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Traditionally Resorcinol is mixed 100 parts resin to 20 parts catalyst byweight. I have been told that you can mix by volume using 3 parts powder(fluffed up) to 4 parts liquid, however, I have not gone far enough to trythis and would suggest that you mix a small quantity and try it on somescrap bamboo before doing a rod. Jack from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Dec 14 17:52:32 2001 fBENqVt26926 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:52:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Thread tensioners At 10:15 AM 12/14/2001 -0800, W Kifer wrote: All, Some time ago a Canadian company was listed as having excellent thread tensioners with numbers on them. They were six dollars apiece. When I lost my backup I list the email address for this company. Would someone please post this information again so I could contact the company. TIA Wayne My wife works for a fabric and sewing machine store. The get junk sewing machines all the time. Some of them have extra nice tensioners with calibrations on them. Go to your local Bernina, Paff or other fine sewing machine dealership. I wouldn't be surprised if the technician would be happy to give you a couple of them. I have also gotten sewing machine motors from them. I have yet to put together a power wrapper but I havethe motors and foot controls I need. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from goodaple@cox-internet.com Fri Dec 14 18:01:55 2001 fBF01st27478 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:01:55 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" One more ? Use LOW heat. Someone mentioned a hairdryer which is a good idea.Randall G.NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Delamination "kinda" One more ? Thanks for all the advice.... one more question. Having repaired as advised, will the TB II hold up to the heat from straightening? I am going to need to get rid of a long sweep that is in the tip. TIADoug from flyfish@defnet.com Fri Dec 14 18:06:53 2001 fBF06rt27757 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:06:53 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:05:34 -0500 Subject: Re:recurring wrap problem That's what I've especially noticed on clear wraps too.But I think Bob N. is right . That the bubbles are still there, but not =as noticeableon the lighter cane. www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Marty That's what I've especially noticed on clear wraps too. but not as noticeableon the lighter cane. www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 14 18:10:11 2001 fBF0AAt28020 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:10:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Blanks Paul,you wont know this being new here but you've just asked something mosthere would rather not go into again. Basically you could make a better blank while break dancing blindfolded even if you are new to rodmaking.Sometimes you just have to take people's advise and I think this is one of those occasions. Tony At 11:24 AM 12/14/01 -0800, Paul Hamm wrote: Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Fri Dec 14 18:21:31 2001 fBF0LVt28452 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:21:31 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:21:14 - Subject: Bench Planes continued Allow me a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay there is a few problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sanding in a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrow the throat, I tested it for final planing. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2, the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allows a lot of control in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. I really believe the angle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lot better for planing with the grain than the block planes, and the chip breaker moved close to the edge helps a lot with preventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this is what I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), a size 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of them with a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary. How's that for busting a Garrison-ism?Darryl Hayashida Allowme a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay for $50.00(usually you can't touch one for under $150.00). Appearance wise there is afew problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sanding in a .002 groove,sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrow the throat, I testedit for final planing. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2, theweight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allows a lot ofcontrol in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. I really believe theangle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lot better for planing withthe grain than the block planes, and the chip breaker moved close to theedge helps a lot with preventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this iswhat I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), asize 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of them with abench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary. How's that Darryl Hayashida from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Dec 14 18:27:12 2001 fBF0RBt28721 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:27:11 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:15:22 -0600 Subject: RE: Two New Rods Ok, y'all, I'll try to make this brief as possible. I want to thank everyone on this list that provides such valuable guidanceto those of us who know absolutely nothing about the art and craft of canerodmaking. Besides all the insightful tips and techniques, you inspireconfidence that these fish poles made of dried grass can be made by a bubbalike me. Of course, I have to give the ultimate thanks to Brother BobNunley. Man!! What a pool shark. You should have seen some of the shotshe was making at The Dog House (Poteau's finest entertainment spot, if youget the chance....) First thing Monday morning (OK, it was 8:30, but only a few hours sleep), Itook several rods outside and had a blast making my decision about whichtaper I wanted to make. I have to say, the decision was not an easy one.Bob's tapers and my casting style are very complimentary. They all feelgood to me! Now here's where I need to make a correction to Bob's originalpost. Bob is not anything of a slave driver at all. He was just there,watching now and then, leaving to "work" on the computer during the longstretches of slow work (flaming, splitting, straightening and pressing,milling, etc.) I can't think of any two days in the last ten years that Ienjoyed more than Monday and Tuesday of this week. I'll remember them aslong as I live. Hopefully the fine details will stay long enough to becomehabit. But I know that if I ever have a doubt, Nunley is just an e- mailaway. I CAN DO THIS! Nunley, Jr's rod is an amazingly fine piece of work. There's no doubt thatsomebody of great experience and teaching ability was behind this littlebeauty. If I can make a rod that fine on my tenth attempt, I'll be darnproud! Great work, Bob! Finally, the drive home was a bit stressful. Rain coming down sideways fromPoteau to Broken Bow was nerve-wracking. Then my alternator crateredhalfway across Texas (2:00 in the morning). Not good. I spent 21 hoursreturning home, but it was only 7 hours driving up on Sunday! Chargebattery 2 hours, drive 1-1/2 hours. Etc. My wife was worried, she thoughtthat I was having so much fun that I had decided to don a head-dress andchange my residency to Oklahoma. The best part -- With great pride and excitement, I pulled THE BLANK fromthe aluminum tube when I got home Wednesday evening. I showed it to mywifeand three children. Not one word for the first 20 seconds, then my 14monthold baby girl said, plain as day, "Wowwwww". That's what I'm talkin'about....... : ) TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Two New Rods List Folk,I guess you figured out by my last post that Troy Miller came up fromHouston this week. Troy, in his modesty, probably won't mention it, but hegot his first blank in the string while he was here. He did a fine job,even though I'm sure he thinks by now that I'm a slave driver. He got hereat 9pm Sunday night and we stayed up until 5am talking fishing and bamboo.Needless to say, we didn't get a very early start on Monday. I figure weput in about 5 hours monday and had everything roughed out and the buttandmid of his rod tapered. I made him shut down early, because I had to go tryout a new Cue Stick I was thinking about buying at my local watering hole.Bought the cue stick by the way! 9 ball is my second love, bamboo myfirst... *S* Tuesday morning I had some errands to run, so we didn't get anearly start again, but he left here that night with a 7'6" 3/2 blank gluedup and ready for the "hard" work. His method was so smooth and definedthatI even conned him into planing a mid for a rod that I'm building for MYSELF(one of those, had it ready, broke it, had to build another, things).Those of you that met Troy at SRG know he's a nice guy and a fantasticcaster... Can't wait to get him back up here to hit some of our Okie trouton his first cane rod.Congratulations, Troy! Don't know if I said it before you left, but youdid a fine job and I enjoyed your company for the two days you were here.Wish you could have stayed long enough to get that puppy final sanded andferruled.As an addendum to this, Troy also saw my 14 year old sons first rod withreel seat, ferrules, grip, winding check and ferrule wraps in place. Theboy is making a 7' 2pc 4 wt and it is a dandy. Troy will attest that thekid made a VERY fine first rod and that he is well on his way to being arodmaker. Thing is, even though he had this obsessive compulsive baldingold fart standing over his shoulder every minute, Tyler, my son, LOVEDmaking the rod. He is only here two days every two weeks, but he's alreadycalled today and wanted to know if when he gets here tonite, he can finishwrapping the rod.Yeah, I'm bragging a bit, because I'm damn proud of him. His first rodis going to look better than my 20th rod did. He is getting a bit full ofhimself already, though... he's already pointed out that by the time he's18, he'll be better at it than I am! LOL I hope he is! Later,Bob (brag mode now set to "OFF") R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Fri Dec 14 18:30:29 2001 fBF0USt29207 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:30:29 -0600 fBF0UPe5031814; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:30:25 -0600 "Rodmakers Mail" Subject: RE: Thread tensioners No financial interest. I found thread tensioners for $3 plus shipping atthe address below. The question I have is, how do you connect the tensionerto anything. They do not have a normal screw mount. If anyone has a good http://www.wagnerrods.com/tools.html Darrin Curtis from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Dec 14 18:42:02 2001 fBF0g2t01088 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:42:02 -0600 Subject: Re: List blessings (Tom Smithwick) All,This list has some fine, helpful people-Tom Smithwick is most helpful as are Ralph Moon, Bob Nunley, and many others too numerous to mention.Without 'em I'd have been in the soup many years ago.Cheers,Hank.P.S. I'm late on some of these e-mails--I let 'em build up to over 7000 and am now down to 3000. Life's been busy. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 14 18:42:42 2001 fBF0ggt01286 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:42:42 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: Blanks Oh man, my secret technique is out! I wrap the blank by putting a bobbin inmy mouth and spinning on my head. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Blanks Basically you could make a better blank while break dancing blindfolded evenif you are new to rodmaking. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 18:54:16 2001 fBF0sGt03158 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:54:16 -0600 helo=default) id 16F35i-0006tq-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:54:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Thread tensioners Of the ones I've seen similar to this, they have a stem that extends belowthe tensioner. Part of this is approx. 1/4"d, but there's another part thatis maybe 1/8"d. You can drill a tight hole, use a Loc-tite product, or epoxyit into place. M-D No financial interest. I found thread tensioners for $3 plus shipping atthe address below. The question I have is, how do you connect the tensioner to anything. They do not have a normal screw mount. If anyone has a good http://www.wagnerrods.com/tools.html Darrin Curtis from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 19:11:43 2001 fBF1Bgt05510 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:11:42 -0600 helo=default) id 16F3Mb-00086K-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:11:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks Please include video of this technique on the Power Fibers site, and/or onthe CD. Should be very informative, not to mention entertaining. M-D Oh man, my secret technique is out! I wrap the blank by putting a bobbin in my mouth and spinning on my head. Basically you could make a better blank while break dancing blindfolded even if you are new to rodmaking. from lblan@provide.net Fri Dec 14 19:16:35 2001 fBF1GZt06433 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:16:35 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:16:33 -0500 Subject: RE: Blanks Come on MD... give the folks that organize the Gatherings a break. You knowthey are always looking for volunteers to put on demos and workshops. Ithink a live demonstration is in order! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu