Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Blanks Please include video of this technique on the Power Fibers site, and/or onthe CD. Should be very informative, not to mention entertaining. M-D From: "Bob Maulucci" Oh man, my secret technique is out! I wrap the blank by putting a bobbin in my mouth and spinning on my head. Basically you could make a better blank while break dancing blindfolded even if you are new to rodmaking. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Dec 14 19:23:37 2001 fBF1Nbt07400 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:23:37 -0600 fBF1NSu12023 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:23:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks SET RODMAKERS NO GERHKE BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Paul Hamm wrote: Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from bob@downandacross.com Fri Dec 14 19:39:42 2001 fBF1dft08979 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:39:41 -0600 Subject: RE: Blanks M-D:Wait til you see the velour sweat suit, Adidas, and the Kangol hat. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Blanks Please include video of this technique on the Power Fibers site, and/or onthe CD. Should be very informative, not to mention entertaining. M-D Oh man, my secret technique is out! I wrap the blank by putting a bobbin in my mouth and spinning on my head. Basically you could make a better blank while break dancing blindfolded even if you are new to rodmaking. from jvb@sbcglobal.net Fri Dec 14 19:56:53 2001 fBF1urt11510 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:56:53 -0600 fBF1unO199776 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:56:49 -0500 Subject: First Rod Question Well I finally assembled all the tools I need to complete my first rod. =I am about to get started and have been practicing splitting, filing, =straightening, flattening nodes and rough planing. I do have one =question. When flattening nodes I keep running into a problem with =getting them completely flat. As a result when I am rough planing they =don't always fit tightly against the form. Although I have been able to =still get a nice 60 degree angle I'm concerned this may lead to problems =down the road. I don't want to make too many mistakes when I begin =working on a good piece of cane. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for the help. Jim started and have been practicing splitting, filing, straightening, = nodes I keep running into a problem with getting them completely = a result when I am rough planing they don't always fit tightly against = help.Jim from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Dec 14 19:58:22 2001 fBF1wLt11904 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:58:21 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16F45k-00059k-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:58:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks Good shot!.....errr, I mean...., Great Cast Bob!!!Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Blanks SET RODMAKERS NO GERHKE BobFly Suppliesaflyshop.com On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Paul Hamm wrote: Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from rodwrapp@swbell.net Fri Dec 14 20:05:52 2001 fBF25qt12641 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:05:52 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Blanks rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hal Bacon has some real nice blanks also.. Thanks Davehttp://www.geocities.com/davesrods ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Blanks Paul, If you are going to buy a blank - try A.J. Thramer or Mark Ruhe. These two guys are good. And there are several more on the list that make top notchquality blanks. Cheers, Alberta Al P.S. no financial interest blah blah - I just know that there stuff is good. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:05 PM Subject: Re: Blanks Paul,A good question! Try a search in rodmakers archives. I think you willfind more information than you need. Jim "Paul Hamm" 12/14/01 12:24PM >>> Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 20:38:06 2001 fBF2c5t17108 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:38:05 -0600 helo=default) id 16F4iC-0000zl-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:38:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks Great idea, Larry! I'd be more than happy to contribute to a travel fund soBob could come to Arkansas and demonstrate the technique for us at SRG.Biondo, you keeping tabs on the money for this, too? M-D Come on MD... give the folks that organize the Gatherings a break. You know they are always looking for volunteers to put on demos and workshops. Ithink a live demonstration is in order! Larry Blan Please include video of this technique on the Power Fibers site, and/or on the CD. Should be very informative, not to mention entertaining. M-D From: "Bob Maulucci" Oh man, my secret technique is out! I wrap the blank by putting a bobbin in my mouth and spinning on my head. Basically you could make a better blank while break dancing blindfolded even if you are new to rodmaking. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 20:57:14 2001 fBF2vDt19177 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:57:13 -0600 helo=default) id 16F50i-0002aj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:57:12 -0500 Subject: Re: First Rod Question You'll get as many answers as there are people who will respond (an =opinionated lot, we are), but tell us what technique you're using to = M-D Well I finally assembled all the tools I need to complete my first =rod. I am about to get started and have been practicing splitting, =filing, straightening, flattening nodes and rough planing. I do have =one question. When flattening nodes I keep running into a problem with =getting them completely flat. As a result when I am rough planing they =don't always fit tightly against the form. Although I have been able to =still get a nice 60 degree angle I'm concerned this may lead to problems =down the road. I don't want to make too many mistakes when I begin =working on a good piece of cane. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for the help. Jim You'll get as many = are people who will respond (an opinionated lot, we are), but tell us = technique you're using to flatten the nodes now. M-D Jim and = Brandt finally assembled all the tools I need to complete my first = still get a nice 60 degree angle I'm concerned this may lead to = help.Jim from cw@vanion.com Fri Dec 14 21:15:52 2001 fBF3Fpt20510 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:15:51 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:20:28 -0700 Subject: Ray Ashley Almost got a rod on ebay, but lost at the last minute. However found out =it was made by Ray Ashley from Endicott NY. He'd been making rods since =the fourties. Thought I'd see if anyone knew a little more about his =work. The rod was a nicely appointed 8'2" 2/2 with different taper tips, =NS ferrules, and a nice dn-sl seat with blk plastic insert. Any imfo =appreciated. Thanks, Chad Almost got a rod on ebay, but lost= minute. However found out it was made by Ray Ashley from Endicott NY. = making rods since the fourties. Thought I'd see if anyone knew a little = about his work. The rod was a nicely appointed 8'2" 2/2 with = taper tips, NS ferrules, and a nice dn-sl seat with blk plastic insert. = appreciated. Thanks, Chad from jojo@ipa.net Fri Dec 14 21:23:17 2001 fBF3NHt20742 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:23:17 -0600 helo=default) id 16F5Pv-0007Rl-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:23:17 -0500 Subject: Another Virus Don't know that this came through the List, for sure, but it is theMagistr/B It came from an e-mail lsalvador@sprint.ca I'll check and see ifhe is on the List, or not. While we're on the subject of virii, I came across a viral program calledPanda from Spain. Seems to work quite well, much faster than either Nortonor McAfee, updates daily automatically, and so far nothing has gotten pastit, which is more than I can say for either of the two others. I have theTitanium version.www.pandasoftware.com As you might surmise, I own this company, so have a heavily vested interest.;o) M-D from lblan@provide.net Fri Dec 14 21:53:23 2001 fBF3rMt21345 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:53:22 -0600 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:53:21 -0500 Subject: RE: Another Virus Just happened to do a "Review" yesterday. No one with that email as of then. Another AV program that I really like is E Trust by Computer Associates.This is the commercial replacement for the program they used to offer freeof charge. They let registered users of the free version buy this one*cheap*. I've not been affected by any of the virii that have hit the list,although some of this is due to my ISP filtering on the server now. Ireceive an update almost every day, I have had as many as three in one day.Updates install seamlessly, no reboot required. It is the most unobtrusiveAV program I've used to date (and I have registered versions of McAfee andNorton being used for coasters). Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 10:23 PM Subject: Another Virus Don't know that this came through the List, for sure, but it is theMagistr/B It came from an e-mail lsalvador@sprint.ca I'll check and see ifhe is on the List, or not. While we're on the subject of virii, I came across a viral program calledPanda from Spain. Seems to work quite well, much faster than eitherNortonor McAfee, updates daily automatically, and so far nothing has gotten pastit, which is more than I can say for either of the two others. I have theTitanium version.www.pandasoftware.com As you might surmise, I own this company, so have a heavilyvested interest.;o) M-D from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Dec 14 22:02:11 2001 fBF42Bt21700 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:02:11 -0600 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:01:57 -0800 Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:01:57 GMT Subject: Fuzzies Pt2 FILETIME=[3DB76720:01C1851D] I have found that rolling the fuzzies off it works much better if I wear a pair of leather work gloves, the rough out type. It might be something peculiar to the way I make the strips , or , maybe not.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Dec 14 22:24:40 2001 fBF4Odt22189 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:24:40 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Fuzzies Pt2 Allen,It may be that I've never worn gloves so after years of bamboo cuts andsplinters, maybe my hands are about the same texure as roughout gloves!*S*Something peculiar about the way you make strips??? Face it, we makerods!!! There's something a little peculiar about ALL of us!Oh, I see, you were talking about technique! Sorry! :^) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Fuzzies Pt2 I have found that rolling the fuzzies off it works much better if I wear apair of leather work gloves, the rough out type. It might be somethingpeculiar to the way I make the strips , or , maybe not.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from rextutor@yahoo.com Fri Dec 14 22:32:51 2001 fBF4Wot22509 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:32:50 -0600 14 Dec 2001 20:32:49 PST Subject: RE: Thread tensioners Rodmakers Mail I have a tensioner just like that - Dilled a holesmaller than the support post , with a firm push andepoxy glue. --- Darrin Curtis wrote: No financial interest. I found thread tensioners the address below. The question I have is, how doyou connect the tensionerto anything. They do not have a normal screw mount.If anyone has a good http://www.wagnerrods.com/tools.html Darrin Curtis __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 14 22:39:02 2001 fBF4d1t22763 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:39:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I agree with this. The bench plane angle of attack and chip breaker setup is a lot better for planing bamboo. I do think you could do the whole job with one provided you have a means of holding the strip in place that wasn't too much hassle when it came to flipping one side to the other AND the plane is tuned for the job as Darrell wrote ie. the frog needs to be set so the mouth has a very fine opening just as you need on a block plane and is achieved with the adjustable throat.The iron also keeps it's edge a lot longer when used at a higher angle as well. Tony At 07:21 PM 12/14/01 -0500, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Allow me a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay for $50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00). Appearance wise there is a few problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sanding in a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrow the throat, I tested it for final planing. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2, the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allows a lot of control in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. I really believe the angle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lot better for planing with the grain than the block planes, and the chip breaker moved close to the edge helps a lot with preventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this is what I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), a size 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of them with a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary. How's that for busting a Garrison-ism?Darryl Hayashida /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Dec 14 22:39:03 2001 fBF4d1t22764 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 22:39:02 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: Blanks Have you guys ever pulled a sewing machine bobbin mechanism apart to see how one works?Who ever devised it was a genius but what was he on when he did it? Tony At 07:41 PM 12/14/01 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: Oh man, my secret technique is out! I wrap the blank by putting a bobbin inmy mouth and spinning on my head. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Blanks Basically you could make a better blank while break dancing blindfolded evenif you are new to rodmaking. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Dec 14 23:14:46 2001 fBF5Ejt23745 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:14:45 -0600 Dec 2001 21:14:44 PST Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu i was just telling jim bureau the other day that ablock plane with a bench plane blade setup is what weneed for the job. maybe someone could promote alie-nielsen exec to building bamboo rods. timothy --- Tony Young wrote: I agree with this. The bench plane angle of attackand chip breaker setup is a lot better for planing bamboo. I do think youcould do the whole job with one provided you have a means of holding thestrip in place that wasn't too much hassle when it came to flipping oneside to the other AND the plane is tuned for the job as Darrell wrote ie.the frog needs to be set so the mouth has a very fine opening just as youneed on a block plane and is achieved with the adjustable throat.The iron also keeps it's edge a lot longer when usedat a higher angle as well. Tony At 07:21 PM 12/14/01 -0500, DNHayashida@aol.comwrote: Allow me a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay for $50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00). Appearance wise there is a few problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sanding in a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrow the throat, I tested it for final planing. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2, the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allows a lot of control in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. I really believe the angle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lot better for planing with the grain than the block planes, and the chip breaker moved close to the edge helps a lot with preventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this is what I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), a size 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of them with a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary. How's that for busting a Garrison-ism?Darryl Hayashida /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure outhow to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying toscrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from b2g@jps.net Fri Dec 14 23:53:06 2001 fBF5r5t24364 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:53:05 -0600 helo=default) id 16F7ku-0000OL-00; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:53:04 -0800 Subject: RE: First Rod Questions I'd be more inclined to suggest a polyurethane glue, i.e, Gorilla Glue, ProBond II, etc. What do some of you guys who use this think? Does hehave enough working time to bind and straighten, considering this is his first rod? My answer to this is yes. My first rod was built using this glue and Ididn't have any trouble gluing and straightening before the glue started toset. But of course I used a binder also. I did try a practice run tryingto bind a rod by hand and that was all it took. I pulled the string off andI went looking in the garage for the hardware I need to build a binder. Thecost of building my Garrison binder top the scale of a whopping $10 for onepulley, fender washers, and a spring. Robert H. from KyleDruey@aol.com Sat Dec 15 00:25:47 2001 fBF6Pkt25105 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:25:47 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 01:25:39 - Subject: Mid Section I'm making a three piece rod. Using the lower half of the culm for the butt section makes sense as does using the upper half for the tip section... but what about the middle section? I was thinking of using three strips from the lower culm and three strips from the upper culm, and alternating them. Is this a bad idea, or does it really matter? Maybe I'm getting too anal about this, but isn't that half the fun of this rod making? TIA, Kyle Fired up the Medved Machine tonight for the maiden voyage... stokin' jamocin'! Man, is that thing cool! The learning curve isn't too bad, took me one hour on the initial strip (which was a throw away), took 10' for the last strip. Don't laugh too hard over this, but it took me three strips to figure out that I needed to flip sides and raise the bed a little after each pass! Finally go to the point where the three point-to-apex dimensions were all within 5 mils of one another - hope this tolerance is good enough to move on to final planing! Thanks everyone for your help with the Medved Beveler. from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Dec 15 00:47:08 2001 fBF6l7t25616 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:47:07 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 01:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Fuzzies Pt 1or 2 Fuzzies? Am I missing something here? Are you referring to the cane having Fuzzies?At least that's what I'm getting out of the discussion.:)I get that right up until I'm on target with the scraping.But when it comes out of the form no fuzzies that I can see.Of course I'm murder on forms and I scrap till I get metal.LOLI could be wrong, but fuzzies is an indication to me I'm not at the form = Should I not be going down that far?I get really sharp corners. Any opinions, do you guys do it different?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Are you referring to the cane having Fuzzies?At least that's what I'm getting out of the discussion.:) scraping.But when it comes out of the form no fuzzies that I can see. metal.LOLI could be wrong, but fuzzies is an indication to me I'm not at the = different?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 15 02:02:57 2001 fBF82tt26356 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:02:55 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I mentioned this to Thom about a year ago and he didn't seem very interested. I guess he knows the interest and possible number of planes he could sell and decided it's not worth the hassle. He more or less told me altering the sharpening angle is all I need to do and go away, politely of course [:-)] In the mean time, I have a prototype of exactly what I think is needed already made and it works great. It's a bit dodgy looking so I wont show it yet but if I can make it look a bit nicer and get one little problem solved I'll let you know about how it all goes. Tony At 09:14 PM 12/14/01 -0800, timothy troester wrote: i was just telling jim bureau the other day that ablock plane with a bench plane blade setup is what weneed for the job. maybe someone could promote alie-nielsen exec to building bamboo rods. timothy --- Tony Young wrote: I agree with this. The bench plane angle of attackand chip breaker setupis a lot better for planing bamboo. I do think youcould do the whole jobwith one provided you have a means of holding thestrip in place thatwasn't too much hassle when it came to flipping oneside to the other ANDthe plane is tuned for the job as Darrell wrote ie.the frog needs to beset so the mouth has a very fine opening just as youneed on a block planeand is achieved with the adjustable throat.The iron also keeps it's edge a lot longer when usedat a higher angle as well. Tony At 07:21 PM 12/14/01 -0500, DNHayashida@aol.comwrote: Allow me a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay for $50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00). Appearance wise there is a few problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sanding in a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrow the throat, I tested it for final planing. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2, the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allows a lot of control in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. I really believe the angle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lot better for planing with the grain than the block planes, and the chip breaker moved close to the edge helps a lot with preventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this is what I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), a size 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of them with a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary. How's that for busting a Garrison-ism?Darryl Hayashida /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure outhow to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying toscrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 15 02:47:10 2001 fBF8l8t26821 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 02:47:09 - Subject: Speaking of snake bites in the land down under...... Don't do this at home kiddies... http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,3441448%5E1702,00.html /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 03:09:30 2001 fBF99Tt27231 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:09:29 - Sat, 15 Dec 2001 01:09:24 -0800 Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:09:23 GMT Subject: Re: Fuzzies Pt 1or 2 FILETIME=[30938BC0:01C18548] One word - bevelerA.J. From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: Fuzzies Pt 1or 2Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 01:48:03 -0500 Fuzzies? Am I missing something here?Seriously, what are you guys referring too?Are you referring to the cane having Fuzzies?At least that's what I'm getting out of the discussion.:)I get that right up until I'm on target with the scraping.But when it comes out of the form no fuzzies that I can see.Of course I'm murder on forms and I scrap till I get metal.LOLI could be wrong, but fuzzies is an indication to me I'm not at the form line.Should I not be going down that far?I get really sharp corners. Any opinions, do you guys do it different?Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Dec 15 03:12:13 2001 fBF9CCt27461 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:12:12 - Sat, 15 Dec 2001 01:12:06 -0800 Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:12:06 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bench Planes continued FILETIME=[919846E0:01C18548] There is already a builder who has a small custom plane maker building one as we speak. I will let you know when it is completed. And whether the planemaker will build more.A.J. From: timothy troester rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Bench Planes continued i was just telling jim bureau the other day that ablock plane with a bench plane blade setup is what weneed for the job. maybe someone could promote alie-nielsen exec to building bamboo rods. timothy --- Tony Young wrote: I agree with this. The bench plane angle of attackand chip breaker setupis a lot better for planing bamboo. I do think youcould do the whole jobwith one provided you have a means of holding thestrip in place thatwasn't too much hassle when it came to flipping oneside to the other ANDthe plane is tuned for the job as Darrell wrote ie.the frog needs to beset so the mouth has a very fine opening just as youneed on a block planeand is achieved with the adjustable throat.The iron also keeps it's edge a lot longer when usedat a higher angle as well. Tony At 07:21 PM 12/14/01 -0500, DNHayashida@aol.comwrote: Allow me a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay for $50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00). Appearance wise there is a few problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sanding in a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrow the throat, I tested it for final planing. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2, the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allows a lot of control in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. I really believe the angle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lot better for planing with the grain than the block planes, and the chip breaker moved close to the edge helps a lot with preventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this is what I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), a size 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of them with a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary. How's that for busting a Garrison-ism?Darryl Hayashida /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at:www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure outhow to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying toscrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Dec 15 04:02:27 2001 fBFA2Ot28284 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:02:25 - fBFA2It56858; Subject: Re: fuzzy edges My best suggestion is get your plane blades sharper and don't scrape the =last thousandths - plane it! Peter My best suggestion is get your plane = and don't scrape the last thousandths - plane it! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Dec 15 04:06:49 2001 fBFA6kt28497 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:06:46 - fBFA6Pt57484; Subject: Re: Blanks Oh no, no, please no! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Dec 15 04:30:46 2001 fBFAUit29079 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:30:44 - Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Martin It occurs to me that if that people building their first rods are reallyworried about binding time, probably the most logical thing would be to usea slower glue at first; if you use a binder and run into some sort of faecalstorm, you've got enough to worry about without having the blank glued tothe the binder and to two separate bits of string, one of which has no end,and all of which are bonded to your gloves. Ask me, as they say, how I know that! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Dec 15 04:36:20 2001 fBFAaIt29444 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:36:19 - fBFAa4561932; Subject: Re: First Rod Questions I use a big G-clamp on the back of the bench, which holds two bits of woodseparated by two strips of felt; I run the thread between the pieces offelt, and then wrap the rod. You can vary the tension as much as you like.The whole process is a pain in the arse! A binder is better! Peter from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Dec 15 05:01:21 2001 fBFB1Lt29952 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:01:21 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 1.999297 secs); 15 Dec 200111:01:20 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Mid Section Use 6 strips from the butt. More power fibers and you will have more ofthesestrips to pick from. Marty KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I'm making a three piece rod. Using the lower half of the culm for the buttsection makes sense as does using the upper half for the tip section... butwhat about the middle section? I was thinking of using three strips fromthelower culm and three strips from the upper culm, and alternating them. Isthis a bad idea, or does it really matter? Maybe I'm getting too anal about this, but isn't that half the fun of thisrod making? TIA, Kyle Fired up the Medved Machine tonight for the maiden voyage... stokin'jamocin'! Man, is that thing cool! The learning curve isn't too bad, tookme one hour on the initial strip (which was a throw away), took 10' for thelast strip. Don't laugh too hard over this, but it took me three strips tofigure out that I needed to flip sides and raise the bed a little after eachpass! Finally go to the point where the three point-to-apex dimensionswereall within 5 mils of one another - hope this tolerance is good enough tomoveon to final planing! Thanks everyone for your help with the Medved Beveler. from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Dec 15 05:23:46 2001 fBFBNjt00434 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:23:45 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 1.098654 secs); 15 Dec 200111:23:45 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued --------------68545F4BE25ED29D208DFB25 After years of trying different planes I finally found the set up Ilike. I use a Lie-Nielson 9 1/2 (LN91/2) with a .002" grooved sole forgetting the strips within .002" off the form. I finish with aLie-Nielson 103 Special (LN103SP). This is a very small plane with afixed throat setting with interchangable throat plates to change thesetting (so I guess it's not really fixed). I use it to make the lastfew swipes on each strip. This set up save the form and blades fromnicks. This plane is uncataloged and has to be asked for. George Mauertold me about it. Now what do I do with the Stanely 9 1/2 and half dozenHock blades? Marty DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Allow me a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane onebay for $50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00).Appearance wise there is a few problems, but mechanically it isperfect. After sanding in a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, andmoving the frog up to narrow the throat, I tested it for finalplaning. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 91/2, the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called atote) allows a lot of control in being able to judge if the plane islevel or not. I really believe the angle of the blade in bench planes(45 deg.) is a lot better for planing with the grain than the blockplanes, and the chip breaker moved close to the edge helps a lot withpreventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay,this is what I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nodto the 3), a size 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (youget less of them with a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful,but not necessary. How's that for busting a Garrison-ism?Darryl Hayashida --------------68545F4BE25ED29D208DFB25 After years of trying different planes I finally found the set up I like.I use a Lie-Nielson 9 1/2 (LN91/2) with a .002" grooved sole for gettingthe strips within .002" off the form. I finish with a Lie-Nielson 103 Special(LN103SP). This is a very small plane with a fixed throat setting withinterchangable throat plates to change the setting (so I guess it's notreally fixed). I use it to make the last few swipes on each strip. Thisset up save the form and blades from nicks. This plane is uncataloged andhas to be asked for. George Mauer told me about it. Now what do I do withthe Stanely 9 1/2 and half dozen Hock blades? MartyDNHayashida@aol.com wrote:Allowme a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay for$50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00). Appearance wisethere is a few problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sandingin a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrowthe throat, I tested it for final planing. It worksgreat!Thesmaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2,the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allowsa lot of control in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. Ireally believe the angle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lotbetter for planing with the grain than the block planes, and the chip breakermoved close to the edge helps a lot with preventinglifts.Afterall my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this is whatI recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), asize 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of themwith a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary.How's that for busting a Garrison- ism?DarrylHayashida --------------68545F4BE25ED29D208DFB25-- from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sat Dec 15 08:11:58 2001 fBFEBut02173 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:11:56 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued the finish planing andthe block plane for the rought stuff. Will I, eventually, save a few =forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4t matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a secure =grip of the stripwhen planing, have a look at http://home11.inet.tele.dk/cmj/upload1.htm All of You rodmakers the plane with one hand and hold the strip with =the other,do have a look and behold, a new and easier way of planing will be =revealed to Yourdoubting eyes. There is even a pic of my benchplane - used for finish =planing. Pics are somewhat big, so will take some time to download, but You =will be rewarded. regards, carsten jorgensen the benchplane for the finish planing andthe block plane for the rought stuff. = eventually, save a few forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4t matter, BUT: for = how to have a secure grip of the stripwhen planing, have a look =at http://home11.inet.te=le.dk/cmj/upload1.htm All of You rodmakers the plane with = hold the strip with the other,do have a look and behold, a new and = of planing will be revealed to Yourdoubting eyes. There is even a pic of = benchplane - used for finish planing. Pics are somewhat big, so will take = download, but You will be rewarded. regards, jorgensen from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 15 08:30:28 2001 fBFEURt04148 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:30:27 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: Another Virus Jojo This one came up on my wif's e-mail but not one mine. She is not on thelist Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 15 08:56:18 2001 fBFEuHt04777 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:56:17 - helo=default) id 16FGES-0003Rn-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:56:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Carsten, You're preaching to the great unwashed. I had the idea, at one time, to usea toggle clamp to hold the strips, but opted instead to ascend to theloftier metaphysical plane (no pun intended) of the Morgan Hand Mill and themilling machine, leaving behind the trappings of the amateur rodmakers --the plane and the form. (Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a TA shot of moraland mechanical superiority.) M-D finish planing and the block plane for the rought stuff. Will I, eventually,save a few forlorn souls?Well, it doesn't matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a secure grip ofthe strip when planing, have a look at All of You rodmakers the plane with one hand and hold the strip with theother, do have a look and behold, a new and easier way of planing will berevealed to Your doubting eyes. There is even a pic of my benchplane - used download, but You will be rewarded. regards, carsten jorgensen from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 15 09:04:04 2001 fBFF43t05065 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:04:03 - 0000 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Carsten and Jojo I too thought of using a toiggle clamp, but I find that a 1" springclamp is just as good. Different strokes for different folks.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 15 09:14:07 2001 fBFFE6t05400 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:14:06 -0600 helo=default) id 16FGVp-0002gf-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:14:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I do still have forms, by the way, which are elevated 1" above the workbench. A spring clamp would do as well on them, with less fuss. Carsten andRalph, how much extra length do you guys leave on your strips to account forthe clamping, and for the plane length. Are you holding the strip by hand,starting to plane, getting past the clamping point, then clamping, or . . .? M-D Carsten and Jojo I too thought of using a toiggle clamp, but I find that a 1" springclamp is just as good. Different strokes for different folks.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Dec 15 09:22:14 2001 fBFFMEt05783 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:22:14 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:20:58 -0500 Subject: Re:Fuzzies Pt 1or 2 Please explain, you got me curious.I'd be very interested in any suggestions.I don't own any type of beveler or mill at the moment.But I've always wondered if either would be good investment. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Allen Please explain, you got me curious. I don't own any type of beveler or mill at the moment. investment.thanks Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 09:36:25 2001 fBFFaPt06271 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:36:25 - ([209.178.134.163] helo=g2t8c9) id 16FGrL-00040I-00; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:36:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued M-D, I looked at the Morgan HandMill and I thought you could hook that sucker upto a worm gear and motor and then go get some coffee while it makes thestrips for you. Shoot you might take a look at JW one pass mill and youreally would ascend to the highest level of rodmaking nirvana and become aZen master of Tonkin manipulation through advanced switch activation. I am waiting for the day that JW makes a mill that is voice activated. Justimagine you simply say "Para 15" and the form is set and the cutters go towork. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Carsten, You're preaching to the great unwashed. I had the idea, at one time, to use a toggle clamp to hold the strips, but opted instead to ascend to theloftier metaphysical plane (no pun intended) of the Morgan Hand Mill and the milling machine, leaving behind the trappings of the amateur rodmakers --the plane and the form. (Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a TA shot of moral and mechanical superiority.) M-D From: Carsten Jorgensen finish planing and the block plane for the rought stuff. Will I, eventually, save a few forlorn souls?Well, it doesn't matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a secure grip of the strip when planing, have a look at All of You rodmakers the plane with one hand and hold the strip with theother, do have a look and behold, a new and easier way of planing will berevealed to Your doubting eyes. There is even a pic of my benchplane - used download, but You will be rewarded. regards, carsten jorgensen from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Dec 15 09:38:23 2001 fBFFcNt06511 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:38:23 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:37:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Snake bites in the land down TonyI was watching a show the other day and A guy was saying his job was =treating snake bites.I know, go figure? LOL But any way he said 98% of people he treats are =males betweenthe ages of 16 and 25 that get bit on the hands.He said he had no real evidence of his theory ,but he thinks it's =because they were trying to catch the snakes. LOL www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Tony treating snake bites. treats are males betweenthe ages of 16 and 25 that get bit on the hands.He said he had no real evidence of his theory ,but he thinks it's = they were trying to catch the snakes. LOL www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 15 10:09:32 2001 fBFG9Vt07266 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:09:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued M.D. I don't leave much excess. Usually 2" at the top and 2" at theother end. I do position the clamp so that I can plane the butt endThat is, you don't leave the clamp at the butt all of the time. Move itaround.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jvswan@earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 11:28:45 2001 fBFHSit08325 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:28:44 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued What about those Japanese block planes that are supposed to be pulledinstead of pushed? Don't those have a higher angle of attack? Some ofthemdon't seem to be too big, either. Jason from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Dec 15 11:47:29 2001 fBFHlSt08839 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:47:28 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:46:12 -0500 Subject: Nice work!!!! I just seen for the first time a picture of Adam Vigil's Rod work.It was a very clear picture and I have a high resolution screen.Adam has given out alot of compliments on other people's work and is a =great contributor to this list. As well as giving out information =freely. Very ,very Nice work Adam! pointing out his talent to the list.I would love to put an attachment to this post, but as you all know some =peoples servers can't handle attachments. And I've been in enough hot =water lately LOL:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I just seen for the first time a picture of Adam Vigil's Rod =work.It was a very clear picture and I have a high resolution =screen.Adam has given out alot of compliments on other people's work and = great contributor to this list. As well as giving out information =freely. Very ,very Nice work Adam!Adam is a very modest person, so I hope he doesn't get mad at me = pointing out his talent to the list. enough hot water lately LOL:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from wkifer@harborside.com Sat Dec 15 11:49:02 2001 fBFHn1t09017 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:49:01 - 0000 Subject: Skip-Email Address --=======2966493======= ascii; format=flowed Skip,Lost your email address. Would you reply so I can get it in my address book.Thanks,Wayne --=======2966493=======-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Dec 15 12:05:26 2001 fBFI5Pt09501 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:05:25 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I have to admit I got interested in this after Darryl's original post. The only thing I had around to try was a 15" Stanley #5 jack plane. I was thinking this would mean I could not start planing closer than about 10" from the clamp. As soon as I got set up and picked up the tool, however, I realized that all you have to do is turn the plane at an angle to the cutting direction, and you can get very close to the clamp. This is a good practice anyway, as it results in a cleaner cut. Most craftsmen who use planes, other than us, push them at an angle. Of course, it is a problem if you groove the sole. Anyway, It seemed to me the idea of using these planes has merit. Even the old jack plane, which has an uneven sole, and was not nearly sharpened to our standards, cut untreated nodes very nicely. It's too heavy for this work, IMHO but far from useless. I guess I need to start looking around for a #2 or 3. from harms1@pa.net Sat Dec 15 12:20:49 2001 fBFIKmt09962 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:20:49 - Subject: Re: First Rod Question Jim, The node problem you are having will indeed cause problems when you glueandbind the rod. At each node there will be dips and/or rises that will havethe effect of ruining the desired taper. Nodes must be dead flat before youcomplete final planing. Depending upon the particular culm of cane itself, the split-out strips willneed both filing and heat-straightening at the nodes. Sometimes a node willbe humped, and will show a little depression on one side (sometimes on bothsides). The ridge of each node must be filed away, but don't take the nodedown much farther than just below its surface. Now, rough plane the stripdown toward a 1/4" in width, and reduce its thickness as well (taking carethat you don't go beyond the intended half-thickness of the taper). Roughplaning to smaller, "squared" proportions is advised for ease ofheat- straightening--which follows. Next, heat straighten the node by bending upward, against the hump. Thiswill cause the strip to take on a rather severe, upward (concave) curve.When cooled, then heat straighted the area(s) where the depressionsoccurred, by bending each of them downward. The enamel side of the stripshould now have become quite flat, and any remaining unevenness can befiled. As a side-note, perfect flattening of the node areas becomes increasinglyeasy the more the dimensions of a given strip are reduced. Best of luck,Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: First Rod Question Well I finally assembled all the tools I need to complete my first rod. I amabout to get started and have been practicing splitting, filing,straightening, flattening nodes and rough planing. I do have one question.When flattening nodes I keep running into a problem with getting themcompletely flat. As a result when I am rough planing they don't always fittightly against the form. Although I have been able to still get a nice 60degree angle I'm concerned this may lead to problems down the road. I don'twant to make too many mistakes when I begin working on a good piece ofcane.Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for the help. Jim from homes-sold@attbi.com Sat Dec 15 12:27:38 2001 fBFIRct10296 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:27:38 - Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:27:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Yes, you pull them.In a catalog I have from "The Japan Wordwooker" says:"Chinese style planes are unique compared to Western planes in that theblade is bedded at 60Ÿ. Since the blade is sharpened with a 30Ÿ bevel, itcan be reversed in the body to make a 90Ÿ scraper plane able to handle anyparticularly nasty grains. The blades are made from high quality toolsteel".The blades are 6mm thick tempered to Rockwell 62Ÿ-64Ÿ and the planebodieshave an adjustable throat.The Palm Plane looks of particular interest to me, 4 3/4" long with a 1 1/4"wide blade.The Smoothing Plane is 8 1/4" long with a 2" wide blade.Anybody ever use one of these?Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued What about those Japanese block planes that are supposed to be pulledinstead of pushed? from harms1@pa.net Sat Dec 15 12:33:49 2001 fBFIXmt10687 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:33:48 - Subject: Re: Mid Section Kyle, consideration as to strip-selection from the culm. Larger rods, yes. Thehalf-dimension for the largest part of a mid-section is usually no greaterthan the depth of the power-fibers at the half-way-point of a good culm, soyou're safe enough. On the other hand, you should have plenty of caneavailable in the butt area of the culm to take all six strips for both yourbutt and your mid sections. Having said that, there is also no good reason why you couldn't do as yousuggest--use three strips from the butt and three from the tip. The onlyconsideration here would be that node-spacing would be quite different instrips taken from the two areas of a culm. You would need to do some"jockeying" to achieve a good staggering pattern, but I imagine you couldwork that out. In all, I wouldn't worry much about the issue unless you are building alarge rod. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mid Section I'm making a three piece rod. Using the lower half of the culm for the butt section makes sense as does using the upper half for the tip section... but what about the middle section? I was thinking of using three strips from the lower culm and three strips from the upper culm, and alternating them. Isthis a bad idea, or does it really matter? Maybe I'm getting too anal about this, but isn't that half the fun of thisrod making? TIA, Kyle Fired up the Medved Machine tonight for the maiden voyage... stokin'jamocin'! Man, is that thing cool! The learning curve isn't too bad, took me one hour on the initial strip (which was a throw away), took 10' for the last strip. Don't laugh too hard over this, but it took me three strips to figure out that I needed to flip sides and raise the bed a little after each pass! Finally go to the point where the three point-to-apex dimensions were all within 5 mils of one another - hope this tolerance is good enough to move on to final planing! Thanks everyone for your help with the Medved Beveler. from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Dec 15 12:52:22 2001 fBFIqMt11215 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:52:22 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:52:17 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I have seen this phenomena myself. I guess rodmakers are a skeptical lot,we= tend to need corroborating testimony to start believing the experience ofon= person. Nobody believed me until Reed Curry tried out a bench plane.Darryl Hayashida carstenjorgensen@mail.dk writes: finish planing and forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4t matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a securegrip= the stripwhen planing, have a look at I have seen this phenomena myself. I guess rodmakers are a skeptical lot,we=tend to need corroborating testimony to start believing the experience ofo=ne person. Nobody believed me until Reed Curry tried out a bench plane.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/15/01 6:12:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,carstenjorgens=en@mail.dk writes: benchp=lane for the finish planing andthe block plane for theroug=ht stuff. Will I, eventually, save a few forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4tmatter, B=UT: for Your info as how to have a secure grip of the stripwhen planing, have alook at= from channer@frontier.net Sat Dec 15 13:02:18 2001 fBFJ2Ht11543 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:02:17 - Subject: Re: Mid Section Or you could either order your culms for 3 pc rods cut to 4' lengthsinstead of 6' or cut your 12' culms to 4' yourself. just a thoughtjohn WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Kyle, consideration as to strip-selection from the culm. Larger rods, yes. Thehalf-dimension for the largest part of a mid-section is usually no greaterthan the depth of the power-fibers at the half-way-point of a good culm, soyou're safe enough. On the other hand, you should have plenty of caneavailable in the butt area of the culm to take all six strips for both yourbutt and your mid sections. Having said that, there is also no good reason why you couldn't do as yousuggest--use three strips from the butt and three from the tip. The onlyconsideration here would be that node-spacing would be quite different instrips taken from the two areas of a culm. You would need to do some"jockeying" to achieve a good staggering pattern, but I imagine you couldwork that out. In all, I wouldn't worry much about the issue unless you are building alarge rod. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:25 AMSubject: Mid Section I'm making a three piece rod. Using the lower half of the culm for the butt section makes sense as does using the upper half for the tip section... but what about the middle section? I was thinking of using three strips from the lower culm and three strips from the upper culm, and alternating them. Isthis a bad idea, or does it really matter? Maybe I'm getting too anal about this, but isn't that half the fun of thisrod making? TIA, Kyle Fired up the Medved Machine tonight for the maiden voyage... stokin'jamocin'! Man, is that thing cool! The learning curve isn't too bad, took me one hour on the initial strip (which was a throw away), took 10' for the last strip. Don't laugh too hard over this, but it took me three strips to figure out that I needed to flip sides and raise the bed a little after each pass! Finally go to the point where the three point-to-apex dimensions were all within 5 mils of one another - hope this tolerance is good enough to move on to final planing! Thanks everyone for your help with the Medved Beveler. from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Dec 15 13:22:51 2001 fBFJMot12040 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:22:50 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:22:36 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued The Lie-Nielsen No. 1 bench plane seems to be a good size for final planing, but the rear tote is so ridiculously small no one's hands can get in that small space. I wonder if a ball handle front and rear wouldn't make that one a good final plane?Darryl In a message dated 12/15/01 12:03:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: I mentioned this to Thom about a year ago and he didn't seem very interested. I guess he knows the interest and possible number of planes he could sell and decided it's not worth the hassle. He more or less told me altering the sharpening angle is all I need to do and go away, politely of course [:-)] In the mean time, I have a prototype of exactly what I think is needed already made and it works great. It's a bit dodgy looking so I wont show it yet but if I can make it look a bit nicer and get one little problem solved I'll let you know about how it all goes. Tony The Lie-Nielsen No. 1 bench plane seems to be a good size for final planing,but the rear tote is so ridiculously small no one's hands can get in that smallspace. I wonder if a ball handle front and rear wouldn't make that one a goodfinal plane?Darryl In a message dated 12/15/01 12:03:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes:I mentioned this to Thom about ayear ago and he didn't seem very interested. I guess he knows the interest and possible number of planes he could sell and decided it's not worth the hassle. He more or less told me altering the sharpening angle is all I need to do and go away, politely of course :-) In the mean time, I have a prototype of exactly what I think is needed already made and it works great. It's a bit dodgy looking so I wont show it yet but if I can make it look a bit nicer and get one little problem solved I'll let you know about how it all goes. Tony from dickay@alltel.net Sat Dec 15 14:28:52 2001 fBFKSpt13073 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:28:51 - srv.alltel.net Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:28:45 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Two New Rods Troy, I have driven that stretch from Poteau to Broken Bow in rain and fogwith a van that was acting up. It is not fun. However, in the spring orfall when the weather is pretty it is beautiful. My wife doesn't like iteven in pretty weather when we go from Broken Bow to Poteau pulling thefifth wheel. Any speed is too fast for her coming down that stretch withall the turns. Going up is OK but coming down is bad. Bob is a great guy and we have missed him at the Fort Smith Flyfishersmeetings the last few months.Dick FuhrmanP.S. Bob, what did you do, eat the Fish Camp out of house and home. Wentover there about a month ago and it was closed. With the Silver Dollarclosed and the Black Angus gone where is there to eat in Poteau? Braums! from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Dec 15 14:32:13 2001 fBFKWCt13320 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:32:12 - Subject: belding Corticelli Does anyone have a spare spool of Belding Corticelli silk thread size A in color 5010 that I could buy? I am redoing a rod and this is the closest color I can come up with to match the original color. Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Does anyone have aspare spool of Belding Corticelli silk thread size A in color 5010 that I could Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from bamboo@pa.net Sat Dec 15 15:54:35 2001 fBFLsYt14503 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:54:35 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:51:54 - Subject: taper request Subject: Re: First Rod Questions Martin It occurs to me that if that people building their first rods are reallyworried about binding time, probably the most logical thing would be to usea slower glue at first; if you use a binder and run into some sort of faecalstorm, you've got enough to worry about without having the blank glued tothe the binder and to two separate bits of string, one of which has no end,and all of which are bonded to your gloves. Ask me, as they say, how I know that! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Dec 15 04:36:20 2001 fBFAaIt29444 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:36:19 - fBFAa4561932; Subject: Re: First Rod Questions I use a big G-clamp on the back of the bench, which holds two bits of woodseparated by two strips of felt; I run the thread between the pieces offelt, and then wrap the rod. You can vary the tension as much as you like.The whole process is a pain in the arse! A binder is better! Peter from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Dec 15 05:01:21 2001 fBFB1Lt29952 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:01:21 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 1.999297 secs); 15 Dec 200111:01:20 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Mid Section Use 6 strips from the butt. More power fibers and you will have more ofthesestrips to pick from. Marty KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I'm making a three piece rod. Using the lower half of the culm for the buttsection makes sense as does using the upper half for the tip section... butwhat about the middle section? I was thinking of using three strips fromthelower culm and three strips from the upper culm, and alternating them. Isthis a bad idea, or does it really matter? Maybe I'm getting too anal about this, but isn't that half the fun of thisrod making? TIA, Kyle Fired up the Medved Machine tonight for the maiden voyage... stokin'jamocin'! Man, is that thing cool! The learning curve isn't too bad, tookme one hour on the initial strip (which was a throw away), took 10' for thelast strip. Don't laugh too hard over this, but it took me three strips tofigure out that I needed to flip sides and raise the bed a little after eachpass! Finally go to the point where the three point-to-apex dimensionswereall within 5 mils of one another - hope this tolerance is good enough tomoveon to final planing! Thanks everyone for your help with the Medved Beveler. from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Dec 15 05:23:46 2001 fBFBNjt00434 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:23:45 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 1.098654 secs); 15 Dec 200111:23:45 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued --------------68545F4BE25ED29D208DFB25 After years of trying different planes I finally found the set up Ilike. I use a Lie-Nielson 9 1/2 (LN91/2) with a .002" grooved sole forgetting the strips within .002" off the form. I finish with aLie-Nielson 103 Special (LN103SP). This is a very small plane with afixed throat setting with interchangable throat plates to change thesetting (so I guess it's not really fixed). I use it to make the lastfew swipes on each strip. This set up save the form and blades fromnicks. This plane is uncataloged and has to be asked for. George Mauertold me about it. Now what do I do with the Stanely 9 1/2 and half dozenHock blades? Marty DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: Allow me a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane onebay for $50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00).Appearance wise there is a few problems, but mechanically it isperfect. After sanding in a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, andmoving the frog up to narrow the throat, I tested it for finalplaning. It works great! The smaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 91/2, the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called atote) allows a lot of control in being able to judge if the plane islevel or not. I really believe the angle of the blade in bench planes(45 deg.) is a lot better for planing with the grain than the blockplanes, and the chip breaker moved close to the edge helps a lot withpreventing lifts. After all my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay,this is what I recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nodto the 3), a size 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (youget less of them with a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful,but not necessary. How's that for busting a Garrison-ism?Darryl Hayashida --------------68545F4BE25ED29D208DFB25 After years of trying different planes I finally found the set up I like.I use a Lie-Nielson 9 1/2 (LN91/2) with a .002" grooved sole for gettingthe strips within .002" off the form. I finish with a Lie-Nielson 103 Special(LN103SP). This is a very small plane with a fixed throat setting withinterchangable throat plates to change the setting (so I guess it's notreally fixed). I use it to make the last few swipes on each strip. Thisset up save the form and blades from nicks. This plane is uncataloged andhas to be asked for. George Mauer told me about it. Now what do I do withthe Stanely 9 1/2 and half dozen Hock blades? MartyDNHayashida@aol.com wrote:Allowme a little bit of a "tool gloat". I got a size 2 bench plane on ebay for$50.00 (usually you can't touch one for under $150.00). Appearance wisethere is a few problems, but mechanically it is perfect. After sandingin a .002 groove, sharpening the blade, and moving the frog up to narrowthe throat, I tested it for final planing. It worksgreat!Thesmaller size 2 bench plane is just as controllable as a Stanley 9 1/2,the weight being just a bit more, but the rear handle (called a tote) allowsa lot of control in being able to judge if the plane is level or not. Ireally believe the angle of the blade in bench planes (45 deg.) is a lotbetter for planing with the grain than the block planes, and the chip breakermoved close to the edge helps a lot with preventinglifts.Afterall my adventures in bench planes and in buying them on ebay, this is whatI recommend. A size 3 or 4 for roughing (I'd give the nod to the 3), asize 2 for final planing, a scraper for fixing lifts (you get less of themwith a bench plane). A 9 1/2 block plane is useful, but not necessary.How's that for busting a Garrison- ism?DarrylHayashida --------------68545F4BE25ED29D208DFB25-- from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sat Dec 15 08:11:58 2001 fBFEBut02173 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:11:56 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued the finish planing andthe block plane for the rought stuff. Will I, eventually, save a few =forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4t matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a secure =grip of the stripwhen planing, have a look at http://home11.inet.tele.dk/cmj/upload1.htm All of You rodmakers the plane with one hand and hold the strip with =the other,do have a look and behold, a new and easier way of planing will be =revealed to Yourdoubting eyes. There is even a pic of my benchplane - used for finish =planing. Pics are somewhat big, so will take some time to download, but You =will be rewarded. regards, carsten jorgensen the benchplane for the finish planing andthe block plane for the rought stuff. = eventually, save a few forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4t matter, BUT: for = how to have a secure grip of the stripwhen planing, have a look =at http://home11.inet.te=le.dk/cmj/upload1.htm All of You rodmakers the plane with = hold the strip with the other,do have a look and behold, a new and = of planing will be revealed to Yourdoubting eyes. There is even a pic of = benchplane - used for finish planing. Pics are somewhat big, so will take = download, but You will be rewarded. regards, jorgensen from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 15 08:30:28 2001 fBFEURt04148 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:30:27 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: Another Virus Jojo This one came up on my wif's e-mail but not one mine. She is not on thelist Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 15 08:56:18 2001 fBFEuHt04777 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:56:17 - helo=default) id 16FGES-0003Rn-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:56:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Carsten, You're preaching to the great unwashed. I had the idea, at one time, to usea toggle clamp to hold the strips, but opted instead to ascend to theloftier metaphysical plane (no pun intended) of the Morgan Hand Mill and themilling machine, leaving behind the trappings of the amateur rodmakers --the plane and the form. (Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a TA shot of moraland mechanical superiority.) M-D finish planing and the block plane for the rought stuff. Will I, eventually,save a few forlorn souls?Well, it doesn't matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a secure grip ofthe strip when planing, have a look at All of You rodmakers the plane with one hand and hold the strip with theother, do have a look and behold, a new and easier way of planing will berevealed to Your doubting eyes. There is even a pic of my benchplane - used download, but You will be rewarded. regards, carsten jorgensen from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 15 09:04:04 2001 fBFF43t05065 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:04:03 - 0000 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Carsten and Jojo I too thought of using a toiggle clamp, but I find that a 1" springclamp is just as good. Different strokes for different folks.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jojo@ipa.net Sat Dec 15 09:14:07 2001 fBFFE6t05400 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:14:06 -0600 helo=default) id 16FGVp-0002gf-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:14:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I do still have forms, by the way, which are elevated 1" above the workbench. A spring clamp would do as well on them, with less fuss. Carsten andRalph, how much extra length do you guys leave on your strips to account forthe clamping, and for the plane length. Are you holding the strip by hand,starting to plane, getting past the clamping point, then clamping, or . . .? M-D Carsten and Jojo I too thought of using a toiggle clamp, but I find that a 1" springclamp is just as good. Different strokes for different folks.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Dec 15 09:22:14 2001 fBFFMEt05783 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:22:14 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:20:58 -0500 Subject: Re:Fuzzies Pt 1or 2 Please explain, you got me curious.I'd be very interested in any suggestions.I don't own any type of beveler or mill at the moment.But I've always wondered if either would be good investment. Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Allen Please explain, you got me curious. I don't own any type of beveler or mill at the moment. investment.thanks Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 09:36:25 2001 fBFFaPt06271 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:36:25 - ([209.178.134.163] helo=g2t8c9) id 16FGrL-00040I-00; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:36:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued M-D, I looked at the Morgan HandMill and I thought you could hook that sucker upto a worm gear and motor and then go get some coffee while it makes thestrips for you. Shoot you might take a look at JW one pass mill and youreally would ascend to the highest level of rodmaking nirvana and become aZen master of Tonkin manipulation through advanced switch activation. I am waiting for the day that JW makes a mill that is voice activated. Justimagine you simply say "Para 15" and the form is set and the cutters go towork. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Carsten, You're preaching to the great unwashed. I had the idea, at one time, to use a toggle clamp to hold the strips, but opted instead to ascend to theloftier metaphysical plane (no pun intended) of the Morgan Hand Mill and the milling machine, leaving behind the trappings of the amateur rodmakers --the plane and the form. (Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a TA shot of moral and mechanical superiority.) M-D From: Carsten Jorgensen finish planing and the block plane for the rought stuff. Will I, eventually, save a few forlorn souls?Well, it doesn't matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a secure grip of the strip when planing, have a look at All of You rodmakers the plane with one hand and hold the strip with theother, do have a look and behold, a new and easier way of planing will berevealed to Your doubting eyes. There is even a pic of my benchplane - used download, but You will be rewarded. regards, carsten jorgensen from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Dec 15 09:38:23 2001 fBFFcNt06511 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:38:23 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:37:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Snake bites in the land down TonyI was watching a show the other day and A guy was saying his job was =treating snake bites.I know, go figure? LOL But any way he said 98% of people he treats are =males betweenthe ages of 16 and 25 that get bit on the hands.He said he had no real evidence of his theory ,but he thinks it's =because they were trying to catch the snakes. LOL www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Tony treating snake bites. treats are males betweenthe ages of 16 and 25 that get bit on the hands.He said he had no real evidence of his theory ,but he thinks it's = they were trying to catch the snakes. LOL www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from rmoon@ida.net Sat Dec 15 10:09:32 2001 fBFG9Vt07266 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:09:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued M.D. I don't leave much excess. Usually 2" at the top and 2" at theother end. I do position the clamp so that I can plane the butt endThat is, you don't leave the clamp at the butt all of the time. Move itaround.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jvswan@earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 11:28:45 2001 fBFHSit08325 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:28:44 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued What about those Japanese block planes that are supposed to be pulledinstead of pushed? Don't those have a higher angle of attack? Some ofthemdon't seem to be too big, either. Jason from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Dec 15 11:47:29 2001 fBFHlSt08839 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:47:28 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:46:12 -0500 Subject: Nice work!!!! I just seen for the first time a picture of Adam Vigil's Rod work.It was a very clear picture and I have a high resolution screen.Adam has given out alot of compliments on other people's work and is a =great contributor to this list. As well as giving out information =freely. Very ,very Nice work Adam! pointing out his talent to the list.I would love to put an attachment to this post, but as you all know some =peoples servers can't handle attachments. And I've been in enough hot =water lately LOL:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I just seen for the first time a picture of Adam Vigil's Rod =work.It was a very clear picture and I have a high resolution =screen.Adam has given out alot of compliments on other people's work and = great contributor to this list. As well as giving out information =freely. Very ,very Nice work Adam!Adam is a very modest person, so I hope he doesn't get mad at me = pointing out his talent to the list. enough hot water lately LOL:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from wkifer@harborside.com Sat Dec 15 11:49:02 2001 fBFHn1t09017 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:49:01 - 0000 Subject: Skip-Email Address --=======2966493======= ascii; format=flowed Skip,Lost your email address. Would you reply so I can get it in my address book.Thanks,Wayne --=======2966493=======-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Dec 15 12:05:26 2001 fBFI5Pt09501 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:05:25 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I have to admit I got interested in this after Darryl's original post. The only thing I had around to try was a 15" Stanley #5 jack plane. I was thinking this would mean I could not start planing closer than about 10" from the clamp. As soon as I got set up and picked up the tool, however, I realized that all you have to do is turn the plane at an angle to the cutting direction, and you can get very close to the clamp. This is a good practice anyway, as it results in a cleaner cut. Most craftsmen who use planes, other than us, push them at an angle. Of course, it is a problem if you groove the sole. Anyway, It seemed to me the idea of using these planes has merit. Even the old jack plane, which has an uneven sole, and was not nearly sharpened to our standards, cut untreated nodes very nicely. It's too heavy for this work, IMHO but far from useless. I guess I need to start looking around for a #2 or 3. from harms1@pa.net Sat Dec 15 12:20:49 2001 fBFIKmt09962 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:20:49 - Subject: Re: First Rod Question Jim, The node problem you are having will indeed cause problems when you glueandbind the rod. At each node there will be dips and/or rises that will havethe effect of ruining the desired taper. Nodes must be dead flat before youcomplete final planing. Depending upon the particular culm of cane itself, the split-out strips willneed both filing and heat-straightening at the nodes. Sometimes a node willbe humped, and will show a little depression on one side (sometimes on bothsides). The ridge of each node must be filed away, but don't take the nodedown much farther than just below its surface. Now, rough plane the stripdown toward a 1/4" in width, and reduce its thickness as well (taking carethat you don't go beyond the intended half-thickness of the taper). Roughplaning to smaller, "squared" proportions is advised for ease ofheat- straightening--which follows. Next, heat straighten the node by bending upward, against the hump. Thiswill cause the strip to take on a rather severe, upward (concave) curve.When cooled, then heat straighted the area(s) where the depressionsoccurred, by bending each of them downward. The enamel side of the stripshould now have become quite flat, and any remaining unevenness can befiled. As a side-note, perfect flattening of the node areas becomes increasinglyeasy the more the dimensions of a given strip are reduced. Best of luck,Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: First Rod Question Well I finally assembled all the tools I need to complete my first rod. I amabout to get started and have been practicing splitting, filing,straightening, flattening nodes and rough planing. I do have one question.When flattening nodes I keep running into a problem with getting themcompletely flat. As a result when I am rough planing they don't always fittightly against the form. Although I have been able to still get a nice 60degree angle I'm concerned this may lead to problems down the road. I don'twant to make too many mistakes when I begin working on a good piece ofcane.Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for the help. Jim from homes-sold@attbi.com Sat Dec 15 12:27:38 2001 fBFIRct10296 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:27:38 - Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:27:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Yes, you pull them.In a catalog I have from "The Japan Wordwooker" says:"Chinese style planes are unique compared to Western planes in that theblade is bedded at 60Ÿ. Since the blade is sharpened with a 30Ÿ bevel, itcan be reversed in the body to make a 90Ÿ scraper plane able to handle anyparticularly nasty grains. The blades are made from high quality toolsteel".The blades are 6mm thick tempered to Rockwell 62Ÿ-64Ÿ and the planebodieshave an adjustable throat.The Palm Plane looks of particular interest to me, 4 3/4" long with a 1 1/4"wide blade.The Smoothing Plane is 8 1/4" long with a 2" wide blade.Anybody ever use one of these?Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued What about those Japanese block planes that are supposed to be pulledinstead of pushed? from harms1@pa.net Sat Dec 15 12:33:49 2001 fBFIXmt10687 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:33:48 - Subject: Re: Mid Section Kyle, consideration as to strip-selection from the culm. Larger rods, yes. Thehalf-dimension for the largest part of a mid-section is usually no greaterthan the depth of the power-fibers at the half-way-point of a good culm, soyou're safe enough. On the other hand, you should have plenty of caneavailable in the butt area of the culm to take all six strips for both yourbutt and your mid sections. Having said that, there is also no good reason why you couldn't do as yousuggest--use three strips from the butt and three from the tip. The onlyconsideration here would be that node-spacing would be quite different instrips taken from the two areas of a culm. You would need to do some"jockeying" to achieve a good staggering pattern, but I imagine you couldwork that out. In all, I wouldn't worry much about the issue unless you are building alarge rod. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mid Section I'm making a three piece rod. Using the lower half of the culm for the butt section makes sense as does using the upper half for the tip section... but what about the middle section? I was thinking of using three strips from the lower culm and three strips from the upper culm, and alternating them. Isthis a bad idea, or does it really matter? Maybe I'm getting too anal about this, but isn't that half the fun of thisrod making? TIA, Kyle Fired up the Medved Machine tonight for the maiden voyage... stokin'jamocin'! Man, is that thing cool! The learning curve isn't too bad, took me one hour on the initial strip (which was a throw away), took 10' for the last strip. Don't laugh too hard over this, but it took me three strips to figure out that I needed to flip sides and raise the bed a little after each pass! Finally go to the point where the three point-to-apex dimensions were all within 5 mils of one another - hope this tolerance is good enough to move on to final planing! Thanks everyone for your help with the Medved Beveler. from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Dec 15 12:52:22 2001 fBFIqMt11215 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:52:22 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:52:17 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued I have seen this phenomena myself. I guess rodmakers are a skeptical lot,we= tend to need corroborating testimony to start believing the experience ofon= person. Nobody believed me until Reed Curry tried out a bench plane.Darryl Hayashida carstenjorgensen@mail.dk writes: finish planing and forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4t matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a securegrip= the stripwhen planing, have a look at I have seen this phenomena myself. I guess rodmakers are a skeptical lot,we=tend to need corroborating testimony to start believing the experience ofo=ne person. Nobody believed me until Reed Curry tried out a bench plane.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/15/01 6:12:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,carstenjorgens=en@mail.dk writes: benchp=lane for the finish planing andthe block plane for theroug=ht stuff. Will I, eventually, save a few forlorn souls? Well, it doesn=B4tmatter, B=UT: for Your info as how to have a secure grip of the stripwhen planing, have alook at= from channer@frontier.net Sat Dec 15 13:02:18 2001 fBFJ2Ht11543 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:02:17 - Subject: Re: Mid Section Or you could either order your culms for 3 pc rods cut to 4' lengthsinstead of 6' or cut your 12' culms to 4' yourself. just a thoughtjohn WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Kyle, consideration as to strip-selection from the culm. Larger rods, yes. Thehalf-dimension for the largest part of a mid-section is usually no greaterthan the depth of the power-fibers at the half-way-point of a good culm, soyou're safe enough. On the other hand, you should have plenty of caneavailable in the butt area of the culm to take all six strips for both yourbutt and your mid sections. Having said that, there is also no good reason why you couldn't do as yousuggest--use three strips from the butt and three from the tip. The onlyconsideration here would be that node-spacing would be quite different instrips taken from the two areas of a culm. You would need to do some"jockeying" to achieve a good staggering pattern, but I imagine you couldwork that out. In all, I wouldn't worry much about the issue unless you are building alarge rod. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:25 AMSubject: Mid Section I'm making a three piece rod. Using the lower half of the culm for the butt section makes sense as does using the upper half for the tip section... but what about the middle section? I was thinking of using three strips from the lower culm and three strips from the upper culm, and alternating them. Isthis a bad idea, or does it really matter? Maybe I'm getting too anal about this, but isn't that half the fun of thisrod making? TIA, Kyle Fired up the Medved Machine tonight for the maiden voyage... stokin'jamocin'! Man, is that thing cool! The learning curve isn't too bad, took me one hour on the initial strip (which was a throw away), took 10' for the last strip. Don't laugh too hard over this, but it took me three strips to figure out that I needed to flip sides and raise the bed a little after each pass! Finally go to the point where the three point-to-apex dimensions were all within 5 mils of one another - hope this tolerance is good enough to move on to final planing! Thanks everyone for your help with the Medved Beveler. from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Dec 15 13:22:51 2001 fBFJMot12040 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:22:50 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:22:36 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued The Lie-Nielsen No. 1 bench plane seems to be a good size for final planing, but the rear tote is so ridiculously small no one's hands can get in that small space. I wonder if a ball handle front and rear wouldn't make that one a good final plane?Darryl In a message dated 12/15/01 12:03:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: I mentioned this to Thom about a year ago and he didn't seem very interested. I guess he knows the interest and possible number of planes he could sell and decided it's not worth the hassle. He more or less told me altering the sharpening angle is all I need to do and go away, politely of course [:-)] In the mean time, I have a prototype of exactly what I think is needed already made and it works great. It's a bit dodgy looking so I wont show it yet but if I can make it look a bit nicer and get one little problem solved I'll let you know about how it all goes. Tony The Lie-Nielsen No. 1 bench plane seems to be a good size for final planing,but the rear tote is so ridiculously small no one's hands can get in that smallspace. I wonder if a ball handle front and rear wouldn't make that one a goodfinal plane?Darryl In a message dated 12/15/01 12:03:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,avyoung@iinet.net.au writes:I mentioned this to Thom about ayear ago and he didn't seem very interested. I guess he knows the interest and possible number of planes he could sell and decided it's not worth the hassle. He more or less told me altering the sharpening angle is all I need to do and go away, politely of course :-) In the mean time, I have a prototype of exactly what I think is needed already made and it works great. It's a bit dodgy looking so I wont show it yet but if I can make it look a bit nicer and get one little problem solved I'll let you know about how it all goes. Tony from dickay@alltel.net Sat Dec 15 14:28:52 2001 fBFKSpt13073 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:28:51 - srv.alltel.net Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:28:45 -0600 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Two New Rods Troy, I have driven that stretch from Poteau to Broken Bow in rain and fogwith a van that was acting up. It is not fun. However, in the spring orfall when the weather is pretty it is beautiful. My wife doesn't like iteven in pretty weather when we go from Broken Bow to Poteau pulling thefifth wheel. Any speed is too fast for her coming down that stretch withall the turns. Going up is OK but coming down is bad. Bob is a great guy and we have missed him at the Fort Smith Flyfishersmeetings the last few months.Dick FuhrmanP.S. Bob, what did you do, eat the Fish Camp out of house and home. Wentover there about a month ago and it was closed. With the Silver Dollarclosed and the Black Angus gone where is there to eat in Poteau? Braums! from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Dec 15 14:32:13 2001 fBFKWCt13320 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 14:32:12 - Subject: belding Corticelli Does anyone have a spare spool of Belding Corticelli silk thread size A in color 5010 that I could buy? I am redoing a rod and this is the closest color I can come up with to match the original color. Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Does anyone have aspare spool of Belding Corticelli silk thread size A in color 5010 that I could Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from bamboo@pa.net Sat Dec 15 15:54:35 2001 fBFLsYt14503 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:54:35 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:51:54 - Subject: taper request I had a gentleman request an unusual rod taper today. A 6'9" 5 weight =three piece that is rather quick. I'm playing with some numbers now =but was curious if any of you fellows might have built anything similar =and could make a recommendation.Thanks,Bill I had a gentleman request an unusual = playing with some numbers now but was curious if any of you fellows = built anything similar and could make a recommendation.Thanks,Bill from teekay35@interlynx.net Sat Dec 15 16:08:22 2001 fBFM8Lt14840 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:08:21 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Hi, Tom. I've been using an old #4 1/2 Bailley plane for several years now.Last year I got an A2 blade from Lee Valley and the combinatioon really hogsoff shavings and does it cleanly. It would be nice to see a shorter/smallerversion of this for rodmakers. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Dec 15 16:18:03 2001 fBFMI1t15177 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:18:02 - fBFMHrA16405; Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued That's what I do - raised a couple of inches.Use spring clamps. Leave NO extra, just move the spring clamp once each pass. No trouble onceyou get used to it, and the old right hand develops a killer handshake grip! Peter from thogan@rochester.rr.com Sat Dec 15 16:35:24 2001 fBFMZOt15697 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:35:24 - fBFMZI802546 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:35:18 - Subject: Silk on Ferrules I have only used nylon wraps on ferrules. My humble apologies.I would like to try silk, but I am nervous that the translucent behavior ofthe silk will show the serrations in the ferrule, and won't look too good.How do other people handle this?ThanksTaylor from mschaffer@mindspring.com Sat Dec 15 16:49:27 2001 fBFMnQt16070 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:49:26 - helo=004314280) id 16FNcU-0003gs-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:49:26 -0500 Subject: Stanley/ Bailey planes Sitting out here in the shop, I happened to eyeball some of my planes =that I have hanging on the wall. Doggone if I don't have three =Stanley/Bailey planes- nos. 3, 4, and 5, and a Shelton no.14. All the =planes have flat soles except the #4 which has multiple grooves in the =sole. Talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees!I guess I had better put some elbow grease on these planes although they =aren't in bad condition anyway.Guys, did the Baileys come before the Stanley, then Stanley bought the =design rights from Bailey? And what's with Shelton? Mike Sitting out here in the shop, I = the planes have flat soles except the #4 which has multiple grooves in = trees!I guess I had better put some elbow = planes although they aren't in bad condition anyway.Guys, did the Baileys come before the = Shelton? Mike from "Marty D. aka \"none" Sat Dec 15 16:57:06 2001 fBFMv5t16394 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:57:05 -0600 v4.1.60/v4175. . Clean. Processed in 2.867264 secs); 15 Dec 200122:57:04 -0000 Subject: Re: Delamination "kinda" One more ? No , Titebond II and Titebond II Extend are heat resistant only, not heat proof.You can heat straighten however, just use less heat more slowly. Marty BambooRods@aol.com wrote: Thanks for all the advice.... one more question. Having repaired as advised,will the TB II hold up to the heat from straightening? I am going to need toget rid of a long sweep that is in the tip. TIADoug from channer@frontier.net Sat Dec 15 18:35:16 2001 fBG0ZFt17450 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:35:16 - Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Taylor;I just polish the part of the ferrule that gets wrapped over after Ithin the tabs down, even on blackened ferrules. At least this gives anice background for the wraps. Most of my rods get wrapped in lightcinnamon, which turns a medium brown when varnished and the ferrulesshow up a little lighter, but I think it looks good that way.john taylor hogan wrote: I have only used nylon wraps on ferrules. My humble apologies.I would like to try silk, but I am nervous that the translucent behavior ofthe silk will show the serrations in the ferrule, and won't look too good.How do other people handle this?ThanksTaylor from robertgkope@attbi.com Sat Dec 15 19:21:41 2001 fBG1Let18127 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:21:40 - Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:21:30 +0000 ,"Rodmakers Mail" Subject: Re: Thread tensioners My solution was to attach an aluminum block about 1x2x3 inches onto thetopof my binder. I drilled 1/4" holes for the tensioners and put set screwsinto the sides of the holes to secure the tensioners. I also used the blockto mount all my thread guides for my binding thread. -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Thread tensioners No financial interest. I found thread tensioners for $3 plus shipping atthe address below. The question I have is, how do you connect the tensioner to anything. They do not have a normal screw mount. If anyone has a good http://www.wagnerrods.com/tools.html Darrin Curtis from caneman@clnk.com Sat Dec 15 19:45:44 2001 fBG1jit18547 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:45:44 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) ,"Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: Two New Rods LOL, Well, there is Warehouse Willies, but to tell you the truth, I'd ratherdrive to Fort Smith to eat... a lot better, although the garlic Shrimp at WWisn't shabby.I don't know what happened to the Fish Camp... a few of my biker buddiesand I went in there one Friday night and the next day they were locked down!*S* I'm sure it had NOTHING to do with the clientelle! BobPS: I'll be back to FFFlyfishers... just been too busy these past fewmonths. I hear the banquet was great and Jason Borgers presentation wasoutstanding. R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- ListServe" Subject: Re: Two New Rods Troy, I have driven that stretch from Poteau to Broken Bow in rain and fog with a van that was acting up. It is not fun. However, in the spring orfall when the weather is pretty it is beautiful. My wife doesn't like iteven in pretty weather when we go from Broken Bow to Poteau pulling thefifth wheel. Any speed is too fast for her coming down that stretch withall the turns. Going up is OK but coming down is bad. Bob is a great guy and we have missed him at the Fort Smith Flyfishersmeetings the last few months.Dick FuhrmanP.S. Bob, what did you do, eat the Fish Camp out of house and home. Wentover there about a month ago and it was closed. With the Silver Dollarclosed and the Black Angus gone where is there to eat in Poteau? Braums! from darrell@vFish.net Sat Dec 15 21:36:24 2001 fBG3aNt19928 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:36:23 - Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:35:51 -0600 Subject: RE: Silk on Ferrules You either use dark thread such as copper, browns, reds, black or else usecolor preserver so the silk won't go translucent. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Taylor;I just polish the part of the ferrule that gets wrapped over after Ithin the tabs down, even on blackened ferrules. At least this gives anice background for the wraps. Most of my rods get wrapped in lightcinnamon, which turns a medium brown when varnished and the ferrulesshow up a little lighter, but I think it looks good that way.john taylor hogan wrote: I have only used nylon wraps on ferrules. My humble apologies.I would like to try silk, but I am nervous that the translucent behavior of the silk will show the serrations in the ferrule, and won't look too good.How do other people handle this?ThanksTaylor from lblan@provide.net Sat Dec 15 21:49:20 2001 fBG3nKt20351 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:49:20 - for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:49:15 - Subject: Router turned reel seats A short time back, there was some discussion regarding the use of a router(table mounted) to turn reel seat inserts. Ran across this today, it is made http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/fullpres.exe?PARTNUM=900-307 Larry Blan from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 15 22:32:07 2001 fBG4W6t21059 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:32:06 - Subject: Re: Snake bites in the land down That'd be about right. Personally I leave them all alone treating them all as if they were loaded guns pointing at me but then I'm at peace with myself in the way of snake behavior.I've had some very close calls over the years with a couple of snakes strike at me but in one case (brown snake in Victoria ) it got the clothing I was wearing and in the other (Death Adder in Far North Queensland) it didn't penetrate the military surplus US marine gaitors with a cloth sample bag with it's bottom torn out to keep spear grass seeds out of my socks I was wearing.In the last case there was a Kiwi working with us who was completely terrified about snakes. There are zero snakes in NZ and a lot of Kiwis are mortally terrified of them mainly I guess because they simply don't realise they aren't all that bad unless you annoy them (in general)It was the height of Summer we were all seeing at least 5 or more a day so he was really on edge all the time, at one point when some intentional burning off was being done so new shoots would form during the expected rains we saw in excess of thirty a day as they moved out of the burned areas into areas still grassed.We were surveying a grid for magnatometer work. I crossed a small ditch you could jump across where there was a pretty big snake sunning himself and called to Les to be careful not to walk into the ditch but not why thinking he'd know why.I looked through the lens of the theodolite just in time to see the target fall over, I looked up and saw Les throw all the survey pegs over his shoulder and bolt. Apparently he saw a snake, possibly the one in the ditch. He took to the nearest tree and knocked a green tree ant nest onto himself. These aren't that bad individually but a half million angry ants are always bad. He finally got these off and only had a few hundred in his closes then realised a little tree snake was in a tree just nearby.I went to him and said maybe it'd be best to knock off for the day so we went back to camp, Les drank pretty heavy that night and droped a beer bottle then stepped on the glass making a hell of a gash that needed stiches so we fixed that up there and then. Les though a few stitches and a week off was worth the hassle. Every day he had a ritual of putting on his leather gaitors which he told us he bought in the US and were used by the rattle snake catchers which went right to his knees. I told him on his first day he didn't need these things around here which is true. He looked with that "I'm saved" sort of look and one of the other blokes piped up and said "sure, they wont try to bite you in the leg, they'll go for your throat". To which Les told him "I BLOODY KNOW THAT!!!"He got used to them in the end. Tony At 10:39 AM 12/15/01 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: TonyI was watching a show the other day and A guy was saying his job was treating snake bites.I know, go figure? LOL But any way he said 98% of people he treats are males betweenthe ages of 16 and 25 that get bit on the hands.He said he had no real evidence of his theory ,but he thinks it's because they were trying to catch the snakes. LOLTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html /**************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html If you learn "indoor" techniques, you will think narrowly and forget the true Way.Thus you will have difficulty in actual encounters. Myamoto Musashi/**************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 15 22:45:15 2001 fBG4jDt21504 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:45:13 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued fBG4jEt21505 I have and have also made a couple as they are very easy to make being more or less Krenov type planes which I would think are Europeanised Asian planes. You can push these planes as well. The reason Japanes/Chinese style planes are designed to be pulled is they work off the floor not at work benches (for the most part) so it's a lot easier to pull a plane from that posture than push. It also makes sense to pull a plane and saw than push if you think about it.As I wrote just before the problem with these planes is they all have a wooden sole so they'll chop out pretty fast in our use. The mouth opening is also too wide.One other hassle is the iron adjustment is done by tapping the *plane* NOT the iron with a small hammer. You tap the fron to make the iron slip down more and visa versa.You get the hang of it pretty quick and it's actually not too bad BUT it's not hi tech enough for most people. Having this sort of adjustment also means once the iron has lost it's edge you HAVE to resharpen it else it wont stay in place because the force of pushing it forces it back out. Tony At 10:28 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Don Schneider wrote: Yes, you pull them.In a catalog I have from "The Japan Wordwooker" says:"Chinese style planes are unique compared to Western planes in that theblade is bedded at 60Ÿ. Since the blade is sharpened with a 30Ÿ bevel, itcan be reversed in the body to make a 90Ÿ scraper plane able to handle anyparticularly nasty grains. The blades are made from high quality toolsteel".The blades are 6mm thick tempered to Rockwell 62Ÿ-64Ÿ and the planebodieshave an adjustable throat.The Palm Plane looks of particular interest to me, 4 3/4" long with a 1 1/4"wide blade.The Smoothing Plane is 8 1/4" long with a 2" wide blade.Anybody ever use one of these?Don----- Original Message -----From: "Jason Swan" Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:28 AMSubject: Re: Bench Planes continued What about those Japanese block planes that are supposed to be pulledinstead of pushed? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from martinrjensen@attbi.com Sat Dec 15 22:52:29 2001 fBG4qSt21772 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:52:28 - ;Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:52:22 +0000 Subject: RE: Silk on Ferrules Organization: wish I had some The serrations will definitely show through on light silk. You just haveto get used to it. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Silk on Ferrules I have only used nylon wraps on ferrules. My humble apologies. I wouldlike to try silk, but I am nervous that the translucent behavior of thesilk will show the serrations in the ferrule, and won't look too good.How do other people handle this? Thanks Taylor from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Dec 15 22:57:26 2001 fBG4vOt22026 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:57:24 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued fBG4vPt22027 There have been a few of us using a bench plane for a while now. I was using a wooden one with a high angle of attack I made a while back and the sole lasts only a short time which I'd have expected but it worked very well.There are other reasons to use one also.A bench plane wont follow the ups and downs of a spline so you get a straight spline much faster than you do using a block plane which will follow the ups and downs of the spline in the initial form because it's so short.I don't actually use an initial or intermediate form any longer for this reason but just put the strip in the final form and plane it. You get to the stage of having to think seriously about accurate work pretty fast if you use one. There are a couple of reasons for this. First is what I wrote above, the reason planes are made in varying lengths is the longer the plane the more humps it'll take off without going up and down the valleys if that makes sense. Imagine a snow sledge that's 5 feet long going up and down mogals, now imagine one 30 feet long that only travels along the tops. That means you get a very even strip fast.The other obvious reason is you have some serious pressure behind the plane because you have all your weight behind it and you are using two hands.A block plane is at this stage still the best plane to use IMHO for the final passes. Tony At 01:52 PM 12/15/01 -0500, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I have seen this phenomena myself. I guess rodmakers are a skeptical lot, we tend to need corroborating testimony to start believing the experience of one person. Nobody believed me until Reed Curry tried out a bench plane.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/15/01 6:12:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, carstenjorgensen@mail.dk writes: finish planing andthe block plane for the rought stuff. Will I, eventually, save a few forlorn souls? Well, it doesn't matter, BUT: for Your info as how to have a secure grip of the stripwhen planing, have a look at /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 16 00:33:59 2001 fBG6Xwt23655 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:33:58 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Taylor,I learned a long time ago from watching and admiring the work of GunterHenseler, a German Rodmaker, that you should clean up your ferrules asthough they would be exposed and never covered with wraps. Generally,whenI use red on the wraps, I use red on the ferrules, if I use clear on thewraps, then I'll clear wrap the ferrules. Silk (or nylon) wraps aren'tdesigned to hide mistakes on ferrules, rather they serve two functions,holding the tabs in place and enhancing the beauty of what should already bea finely crafted fishing rod.John Channer said it best. Polish the tabs just as you would the restof your rod. Don't let those tabs fall below the standards that you set forexposed components, after all, your ferrule wraps should NOT serve thepurpose of hiding mistakes! Why should your ferrule tabs not be as smoothand perfect as your reel seat, your guide feet and the rest of your rod? Myopinion, they shouldn't be anything less. They should be as close toperfect as you can get them, so there should be no reason to worry aboutusing dark colors to hide them. Anyone who appreciates fine rods willappreciate the fact that you aren't trying to hide your ferrule tabs under acolor that doesn't match the rest of the rod. This is especially true ifyou choose to wrap the rod in clear (white) silk.As I posted recently, my 14 year has his first rod near completion. Hisferrule tabs are pretty close to perfect and the tabs are 'clear' wrappedwith red tipping. Admittedly, he had a LOT of help with the wraps, but Imade HIM dress the ferrule to what I thought they should be. My opinion isthat if a 14 year old can do it, anyone can. All it takes is just a littleextra time, and when you're going to put 40 hours in a rod, what is a fewmore minutes to make the tabs look as good as the rest of it? Tyler, my 14year old, now has his butt section wrapped and the wraps sealed and they arejust as clean as the ferrule wraps... no gaps in the Clear wraps andcertainly, no mistakes underneath, because when you're making a rod thatyouexpect someone to pay over a grand for, you just do it right... you don'tmake mistakes.Sorry if I sound a little Anal Retentive about this, but my idea offerrule wraps has never had anything to do with using a color dark enough tohide my laziness. They should be something that just stabelizes work thatyou are proud of having done. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Silk on Ferrules I have only used nylon wraps on ferrules. My humble apologies.I would like to try silk, but I am nervous that the translucent behavior of the silk will show the serrations in the ferrule, and won't look too good.How do other people handle this?ThanksTaylor from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Dec 16 01:11:02 2001 fBG7B1t24232 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:11:02 - Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:10:56 -0800 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 07:10:56 GMT Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules FILETIME=[CE7969F0:01C18600] One solution is to use non serrated ferrules. You thin down the part that would normally be serrated so that is just a few thousandths thick at the edge, anneal the edge, and polish.A.J. From: "taylor hogan" Subject: Silk on FerrulesDate: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:33:28 -0500 I have only used nylon wraps on ferrules. My humble apologies.I would like to try silk, but I am nervous that the translucent behavior ofthe silk will show the serrations in the ferrule, and won't look too good.How do other people handle this?ThanksTaylor _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Dec 16 04:17:21 2001 fBGAHJt25891 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:17:20 - fBGAHDC06634; Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Hello AJ When I first started making bamboo rods, which isn't all that many rods ago,I was under the impression that it was structurally necessary to "crown"ferrule serrations; not sure why, but I thought it was adurability/continuity thing. The last couple of rods, I have just polished the tabs and tapered themdown very fine, and I like the look much better. I still have this kind ofthing that the serrations have to be there. Still not entirely sure justwhy. So is there any reason at all for having the serrated tabs, other thantradition? Or, perhaps putting it another way, any reason for NOT havingthem? Assuming, I guess, that you don't like the look of crowned ferrules,in which case they obviously have to be there. Peter from splitcane@attbi.com Sun Dec 16 05:12:32 2001 fBGBCWt26596 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 05:12:32 - Subject: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi List, I do not know if this has been covered or not, but I thought itworth the mentioning... I have a firewall called Zone Alarm and every once in awhile a programcalled WNAD.EXE asks for permission to access the web I shut it downeverytime but got curious and this is what I found... If you have visited or viewed contents form Twistedhumor.com orSwapnut.com,you may have inversely load "spyware" on your computer. This runs in thebackground without your knowledge every time connect to the web, it goesoutand gets advertising and brings it back to your computer for display at atime release set by the writers of this fine software. On a side note itcould be taking info from your computer and delivering to these samepeople... Here's a link to the Houston Chronicle that will tell you everything youwill need to know about this "spyware" and how to get rid of it... http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1112456 Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Dec 16 06:57:08 2001 fBGCv7t27483 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 06:57:07 - (authenticated) Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:56:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Tony, Tapping the body of the plane with a small wooden or plastic mallet is not abad method at all for moving the iron in Stanley-type block planes athousandth ortwo either direction. If I find that I want to move things a little withoutchanging my settings, I just give the plane a little whack with the plastichandleof a good sized screwdriver.One of the few tricks John Bradford taught me. Harry Tony Young wrote: One other hassle is the iron adjustment is done by tapping the *plane* NOTthe iron with a small hammer. You tap the fron to make the iron slip downmore and visa versa.You get the hang of it pretty quick and it's actually not too bad BUT it'snot hi tech enough for most people. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from splitcane@attbi.com Sun Dec 16 07:12:13 2001 fBGDCCt27895 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 07:12:13 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:12:07 +0000 Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Art, The Chronicle page must be down, if you go to www.yahoo.com andtypein WNAD.EXE you will get several hits ( 55 ) all explaining the "TrojanHorse / SpyWare" Twistedhumor.com loaded on millions of computers as afundraiser for Sept 11, but now refuses to comment on! PS, The music download software from www.swapnut.com has the same"Spyware"in it and it's a product of www.RankYou.com Check it out, another reason toinstall a FireWall to protect you from these HACKS! Here's a link to the FireWall I use: http://www.zonealarm.com/ sure thereare free FireWall's out there but you usually get what you pay for... * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave,Can you check that Chronical URL? I get "Can't be displayed" when I try to access it.Thanks,Art from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Dec 16 08:12:23 2001 fBGECLt28527 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:12:21 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued You're right Harry. It's also good for shifting sideways when you've run out of adjustment.Basically, hammers are handy things to have around and I have them all the way from a tiny tack hammer to an 8 pounder . One of my favorite tools in fact [:-)] I just need remember that if the only tool I ever use is a hammer I'll treat every job like a nail as the saying goes:-) Tony At 06:53 AM 12/16/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Tony, Tapping the body of the plane with a small wooden or plastic mallet is not abad method at all for moving the iron in Stanley-type block planes a thousandth ortwo either direction. If I find that I want to move things a little withoutchanging my settings, I just give the plane a little whack with the plastic handleof a good sized screwdriver.One of the few tricks John Bradford taught me. Harry Tony Young wrote: One other hassle is the iron adjustment is done by tapping the *plane*NOTthe iron with a small hammer. You tap the fron to make the iron slip downmore and visa versa.You get the hang of it pretty quick and it's actually not too bad BUT it'snot hi tech enough for most people. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from darrell@vFish.net Sun Dec 16 08:57:53 2001 fBGEvqt29126 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:57:53 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:57:49 -0600 Subject: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave, Glad to see you're back! We were worried about you... Zonealarm has a Freeware version that I've been running for months... Iprobably should pay and upgrade to the pro version as the freebie version isawesome so the $$ version must be a lot better. They are so prolific intheir sales promotions, I've just been waiting for a deal too good to passup to upgrade. There are many programs now that install spyware on your machine and aprogram like zonealarm is really advised to help you block some of the crapcoming at us. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Art, The Chronicle page must be down, if you go to www.yahoo.com andtypein WNAD.EXE you will get several hits ( 55 ) all explaining the "TrojanHorse / SpyWare" Twistedhumor.com loaded on millions of computers as afundraiser for Sept 11, but now refuses to comment on! PS, The music download software from www.swapnut.com has the same"Spyware"in it and it's a product of www.RankYou.com Check it out, another reason toinstall a FireWall to protect you from these HACKS! Here's a link to the FireWall I use: http://www.zonealarm.com/ sure thereare free FireWall's out there but you usually get what you pay for... * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave,Can you check that Chronical URL? I get "Can't be displayed" when I try to access it.Thanks,Art from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 16 09:27:59 2001 fBGFRxt29589 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:27:59 - for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:27:57 - Subject: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? ZoneAlarm by itself won't prevent you from receiving, installing, orexecuting adware applications. What it will do, is warn you if a programtries to access the internet, thereby allowing you to take action to removethe adware. There are applications that work specifically on adware, some ofthese are quite often bundled with the ZoneAlarm full version promotions.And of course, just to keep things interesting for us, some of the recentworms attempt to work around ZoneAlarm's protection. ZA is such a popularpersonal firewall, it is an easy target. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave, Glad to see you're back! We were worried about you... Zonealarm has a Freeware version that I've been running for months... Iprobably should pay and upgrade to the pro version as the freebieversion isawesome so the $$ version must be a lot better. They are so prolific intheir sales promotions, I've just been waiting for a deal too good to passup to upgrade. There are many programs now that install spyware on your machine and aprogram like zonealarm is really advised to help you block someof the crapcoming at us. Regards, Darrell Lee -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 4:47 AM Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Art, The Chronicle page must be down, if you go to www.yahoo.com and typein WNAD.EXE you will get several hits ( 55 ) all explaining the "TrojanHorse / SpyWare" Twistedhumor.com loaded on millions of computers as afundraiser for Sept 11, but now refuses to comment on! PS, The music download software from www.swapnut.com has the same"Spyware"in it and it's a product of www.RankYou.com Check it out, another reason toinstall a FireWall to protect you from these HACKS! Here's a link to the FireWall I use: http://www.zonealarm.com/ sure thereare free FireWall's out there but you usually get what you pay for... Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rods ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave,Can you check that Chronical URL? I get "Can't be displayed" when I try to access it.Thanks,Art from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Dec 16 09:33:02 2001 fBGFX1t29842 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:33:01 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Peter, As I understand it, it allows for a transfer of energy experienced from one section to another. The ferrules kind of create a rigid point inthe rod and the tabs help to transfer some of the stress at this point. Ilike the tabs for that reason. Hope this helps. Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Hello AJ When I first started making bamboo rods, which isn't all that many rods ago, I was under the impression that it was structurally necessary to "crown"ferrule serrations; not sure why, but I thought it was adurability/continuity thing. The last couple of rods, I have just polished the tabs and tapered themdown very fine, and I like the look much better. I still have this kind of thing that the serrations have to be there. Still not entirely sure justwhy. So is there any reason at all for having the serrated tabs, other thantradition? Or, perhaps putting it another way, any reason for NOT havingthem? Assuming, I guess, that you don't like the look of crowned ferrules,in which case they obviously have to be there. Peter from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 16 09:55:44 2001 fBGFtht00262 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:55:43 - Subject: RE: Stanley/ Bailey planes Leonard Bailey held the original patent rights to the Bailey design. Stanleybought the patent rights in the late 1860's. The one with the grooves on thebottom is a "corrugated" plane. The grooves were supposed to reducefrictionor suction on the sole. The model number should be a 4C, the "C" standing with them, but from what I have heard, they were considered to have been oflesser quality than a Stanley. My advice is to sharpen them and use them. Do not start asking questions. Itis the beginning of a very slippery slope indeed. Next, you will findyourself hanging out on the Neanderthal forums, and trying to keep up hereas well. You think flyrods are an expensive hobby? Ha! We don't hold acandle to plane collectors. Let me give you a bit of a push though... http://almond.srv.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html - The Electronic NeanderthalLarry Blan-----Original Message----- Subject: Stanley/ Bailey planes Sitting out here in the shop, I happened to eyeball some of my planes that Ihave hanging on the wall. Doggone if I don't have three Stanley/Baileyplanes- nos. 3, 4, and 5, and a Shelton no.14. All the planes have flatsoles except the #4 which has multiple grooves in the sole. Talk about notbeing able to see the forest for the trees!I guess I had better put some elbow grease on these planes although theyaren't in bad condition anyway.Guys, did the Baileys come before the Stanley, then Stanley bought thedesign rights from Bailey? And what's with Shelton? Mike from wkifer@harborside.com Sun Dec 16 10:02:42 2001 fBGG2ft00546 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:02:41 - 0000 Subject: Fwd: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? --=======44D64FF======= ascii; format=flowed Hi Dave, Glad to see you're back! We were worried about you... Zonealarm has a Freeware version that I've been running for months... Iprobably should pay and upgrade to the pro version as the freebie version isawesome so the $$ version must be a lot better. They are so prolific intheir sales promotions, I've just been waiting for a deal too good to passup to upgrade. There are many programs now that install spyware on your machine and aprogram like zonealarm is really advised to help you block some of the crapcoming at us. Regards, Darrell Lee All,Another free program that I use with Zonealarm is Ad-aware from Lavasoft. It will detectand optionally remove all known spyware from your system. Highlyrecommended! Regards,Wayne --=======44D64FF=======-- from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 16 10:40:14 2001 fBGGeDt01074 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:40:13 - helo=default) id 16FeKi-0002CA-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:40:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Unsolicited advice: Either download the free version, or buy the Proversion, but RUN ZONEALARM. Along these lines, there are some good resources on the web: http://grc.com/optout.htm and Steve Gibson's pages on OptOut, a program for detecting spyware. He hassince removed the actual program, but there is still some good reading here.He recommends the use of another program called AdAware. This is a freedownload. http://www.lavasoftusa.com/aaw.html The page for AdAware. I couldn't getthis page to come up for some reason, just now when I tried it. http://grc.com/downloaders.htm Here's another look from Steve Gibson onspyware. While you are at grc.com, you might want to check out the Test My Shields,and Probe My Ports tests. These are free to run and check you're computer.Ibelieve most of you will find that your computers are wide open forvirtually anyone who might be looking, particularly those of you who are oncable, or DSL. Your computer may already be unwittingly used, without yourknowledge as a Zombie. Set your security options to prompt for signed ActiveX controls, and disablethe unsigned controls. Prompt for scripting of same, disable same. You mayalso wish to disable your Java permissions, which will prevent those damnedannoying pop-up windows. Doing all the above will mean that you will not beable to access certain features on certain web sites, such as your WindowsUpdate. You will have to re-enable them all. It's a pain, buuuuut you willprevent malicious web sites from doing things like changing your homepage,adding themselves to your favorites file, installing Comet Cursor, havingvirii transmitted through a web site (maybe), etc. Isn't all this technology fun? M-D Hi List, I do not know if this has been covered or not, but I thought itworth the mentioning... I have a firewall called Zone Alarm and every once in awhile a programcalled WNAD.EXE asks for permission to access the web I shut it downeverytime but got curious and this is what I found... If you have visited or viewed contents form Twistedhumor.com or Swapnut.com, you may have inversely load "spyware" on your computer. This runs in thebackground without your knowledge every time connect to the web, it goes out and gets advertising and brings it back to your computer for display at atime release set by the writers of this fine software. On a side note itcould be taking info from your computer and delivering to these samepeople... Here's a link to the Houston Chronicle that will tell you everything youwill need to know about this "spyware" and how to get rid of it... http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1112456 Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 16 10:45:35 2001 fBGGjYt01357 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:45:34 -0600 helo=default) id 16FePt-0007mQ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:45:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Yes, and since it is the only firewall out there worth a tinker's damn it isthe one everyone's trying to defeat. The others are easy. Fortunately, sinceit is number one the people who make it work to keep it number one, and stayon top of all this crap. M-D ZoneAlarm by itself won't prevent you from receiving, installing, orexecuting adware applications. What it will do, is warn you if a programtries to access the internet, thereby allowing you to take action to remove the adware. There are applications that work specifically on adware, some of these are quite often bundled with the ZoneAlarm full version promotions.And of course, just to keep things interesting for us, some of the recentworms attempt to work around ZoneAlarm's protection. ZA is such apopularpersonal firewall, it is an easy target. Larry Blan from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 16 10:55:10 2001 fBGGtAt01661 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:55:10 -0600 helo=default) id 16FeZB-0004oR-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:55:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? One more post, kiddies. Here's a link to the German parent company ofLavasoft, where you can get the latest version of AdAware. www.lavasoft.de M-D from martinrjensen@attbi.com Sun Dec 16 11:47:39 2001 fBGHlct02365 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:47:38 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:47:33 +0000 "'arthur port'" Subject: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Organization: wish I had some The Pro version would give you more flexibility if you have a homenetwork. If you have one computer, stay with the free version. The Prowon't "work" better, just more settings. The free version is forpersonal home users. The Pro is for business users. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave, Glad to see you're back! We were worried about you... Zonealarm has a Freeware version that I've been running for months... Iprobably should pay and upgrade to the pro version as the freebieversion is awesome so the $$ version must be a lot better. They are soprolific in their sales promotions, I've just been waiting for a dealtoo good to pass up to upgrade. There are many programs now that install spyware on your machine and aprogram like zonealarm is really advised to help you block some of thecrap coming at us. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Art, The Chronicle page must be down, if you go to www.yahoo.com andtype in WNAD.EXE you will get several hits ( 55 ) all explaining the"Trojan Horse / SpyWare" Twistedhumor.com loaded on millions ofcomputers as a fund raiser for Sept 11, but now refuses to comment on! PS, The music download software from www.swapnut.com has the same"Spyware" in it and it's a product of www.RankYou.com Check it out,another reason to install a FireWall to protect you from these HACKS! Here's a link to the FireWall I use: http://www.zonealarm.com/ surethere are free FireWall's out there but you usually get what you payfor... * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave,Can you check that Chronical URL? I get "Can't be displayed" when I try to access it.Thanks,Art from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 16 11:56:53 2001 fBGHuqt02653 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:56:52 -0600 helo=default) id 16FfWo-0007Iu-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:56:47 -0500 Subject: More Security Issues Ok, so I lied. Here's another post on this. Here's a little program to stop pop-ups, without having to modify yoursecurity settings within Internet Explorer. It's called Pop-Up Stopper, ifyou can believe that. This is the link to the whole page, but you maydownload the program from there. http://www.panicware.com/ And for the computer challenged, here's a site devoted to Internet Security,with step-by-step instructions. It doesn't get any easier than this. Enoughhere to keep you reading for a while, but darn well worth it. The openingpage has most of the basic needs for Windoz computers. There's plentymore,though, available to the left. Just pick a button, like Additional Steps. http://www.stormranger.net/ If you've got a Mac computer, and want some security: http://www.securemac.com Hope y'all are having fun! M-D from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 16 12:03:16 2001 fBGI3Ft02945 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:03:15 -0600 helo=default) id 16Ffd4-0005s6-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:03:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Agreed. The same with the Ad-aware program. The free version has whatmostof us need, and doesn't require any additional options be chosen, such asthose offered with the registered version. If you are into this kind ofstuff, or aren't intimidated by it, by all means go for the registeredversions of programs, as they do offer more options, and it helps keep thecompanies in business, but for most of us the freeware versions aresuitable. M-D The Pro version would give you more flexibility if you have a homenetwork. If you have one computer, stay with the free version. The Prowon't "work" better, just more settings. The free version is forpersonal home users. The Pro is for business users. Martin Jensen Zonealarm has a Freeware version that I've been running for months... Iprobably should pay and upgrade to the pro version as the freebieversion is awesome so the $$ version must be a lot better. They are soprolific in their sales promotions, I've just been waiting for a dealtoo good to pass up to upgrade.Regards, Darrell Lee from splitcane@attbi.com Sun Dec 16 12:14:26 2001 fBGIEQt03394 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:14:26 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:14:20 +0000 Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi All... It's good to be back and thanks for the support, thats a lot ofwork changing everything! I have the Pro Verison, never tried the free one but what ever way you goit's time and/or money well spent... Happy Holidays to All... * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Dave, Glad to see you're back! We were worried about you... Zonealarm has a Freeware version that I've been running for months... Iprobably should pay and upgrade to the pro version as the freebie version is awesome so the $$ version must be a lot better. They are so prolific intheir sales promotions, I've just been waiting for a deal too good to passup to upgrade. There are many programs now that install spyware on your machine and aprogram like zonealarm is really advised to help you block some of the crap coming at us. Regards, Darrell Lee Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Hi Art, The Chronicle page must be down, if you go to www.yahoo.com and type in WNAD.EXE you will get several hits ( 55 ) all explaining the "TrojanHorse / SpyWare" Twistedhumor.com loaded on millions of computers as a fund raiser for Sept 11, but now refuses to comment on! PS, The music download software from www.swapnut.com has the same "Spyware" in it and it's a product of www.RankYou.com Check it out, another reason to install a FireWall to protect you from these HACKS! Here's a link to the FireWall I use: http://www.zonealarm.com/ sure thereare free FireWall's out there but you usually get what you pay for... * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net from pcollin@rochester.rr.com Sun Dec 16 12:51:38 2001 fBGIpbt04003 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:51:38 - fBGIpa817332 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:51:36 - Subject: Bubbles in Wraps Thanks to all of you who responded to my earlier post. I bought some =spar varnish, and coated more wraps today. It has been several hours, =and I don't see any of those tiny bubbles in the silk (sounds like a Don =Ho song!) So it will be spar for the wraps from here on. Any problem =with dipping poly over spar? Pete Collin Thanks to all of you who responded to = has been several hours, and I don't see any of those tiny bubbles in the = PeteCollin from steve@dandenong.snapprinting.com.au Sun Dec 16 15:11:46 2001 fBGLBct08760 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:11:44 - 2001 07:18:15 +1000 bwmam05.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0g 38/2210017); 17Dec 2001 07:11:24User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Subject: unsubscribe and Collecting" understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. unsubscribe from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Dec 16 15:57:47 2001 fBGLvlt09633 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:57:47 - Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules I use a set of small swiss files to create a parabolic shape (McDonaldsArch) on each of the ferrule tabs, and thin them as well at the same time.I do this before installing them and it takes about 10 minutes to do twomales and a female. These are fitted with the ferrule slits coinciding withthe hex corners. The tabs are then "tapped" flat with a small machinist'shammer. All this is done before gluing them in place. I do this because Ithink it creates a smooth stress transition between the relatively rigidferrule and the relatively flexible cane. It also looks good when wrappedand varnished. from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Dec 16 16:13:04 2001 fBGMD3t10019 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:13:03 - 0000 (63.228.46.252) Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Red Green sys "any tool is a hammer"-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued You're right Harry. It's also good for shifting sideways when you've runout of adjustment.Basically, hammers are handy things to have around and I have them all theway from a tiny tack hammer to an 8 pounder . One of my favorite tools infact [:-)] I just need remember that if the only tool I ever use is a hammerI'll treat every job like a nail as the saying goes:-) Tony At 06:53 AM 12/16/01 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Tony, Tapping the body of the plane with a small wooden or plastic malletis not abad method at all for moving the iron in Stanley-type block planes athousandth ortwo either direction. If I find that I want to move things a little without changing my settings, I just give the plane a little whack with theplastic handleof a good sized screwdriver.One of the few tricks John Bradford taught me. Harry Tony Young wrote: One other hassle is the iron adjustment is done by tapping the *plane* NOT the iron with a small hammer. You tap the fron to make the iron slip down more and visa versa.You get the hang of it pretty quick and it's actually not too bad BUT it's not hi tech enough for most people. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Dec 16 16:22:25 2001 fBGMMOt10347 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:22:25 - Subject: Sliding Band Reel Seats- Design Criteria Did you know..............Some years previous the fishing tackle industry decided to standardiseall trout fly rod reel seats.The standard adopted being the reel seat/foot as found on ever popularHardy Reels as typified by say the LRH or Princess etc etc.To effectively hold such a seat with a sliding band ( down lock ,uplockor say just two sliding bands ) necessitates the bands themselves havinga 4 degree internal taper to match that of the reel foot.It is by the presence of this taper on a sliding band that one candiscern the difference between a well designed reel seat and a less welldesigned seat (on which you will find the bands have a parallel bore ).In addition........the well designed reel seat will have sliding bandsthat flex to give additional grip to the reel when in its finalposition.Just thought some of you may be interested...........Paul from homes-sold@attbi.com Sun Dec 16 16:28:42 2001 fBGMSft10622 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:28:41 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:28:35 +0000 "arthur port" Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? checkoutthe latest security update, December 13, 2001:http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/critical/default.asp Subject: RE: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Don from bob@downandacross.com Sun Dec 16 16:41:22 2001 fBGMfLt10981 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:41:21 - Subject: RE: Bubbles in Wraps I have not had a problem with that combo. MAn O War on wraps over twocoatsof Helmsmen and then one coat of Helmsmen over the top.Bob----- Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 1:51 PM Subject: Bubbles in Wraps Thanks to all of you who responded to my earlier post. I bought some sparvarnish, and coated more wraps today. It has been several hours, and Idon't see any of those tiny bubbles in the silk (sounds like a Don Ho song!)So it will be spar for the wraps from here on. Any problem with dippingpoly over spar? Pete Collin had a problem with that combo. MAn O War on wraps over two coats of = then one coat of Helmsmen over the top.Bob CollinSent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 1:51 RodmakersSubject: Bubbles inWrapsThanks to all of you who responded to = has been several hours, and I don't see any of those tiny bubbles in = Pete =Collin from bhoy551@earthlink.net Sun Dec 16 17:49:53 2001 fBGNnqt14207 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:49:53 - helo=bhoy.earthlink.net) id 16Fl2S-0007V1-00; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 15:49:50 -0800 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules At 01:30 AM 12/16/01, Bob Nunley wrote: Taylor,I learned a long time ago from watching and admiring the work of GunterHenseler, a German Rodmaker, that you should clean up your ferrules asthough they would be exposed and never covered with wraps. ...(SNIP)John Channer said it best. Polish the tabs just as you would the restof your rod. Don't let those tabs fall below the standards that you set forexposed components, after all, your ferrule wraps should NOT serve thepurpose of hiding mistakes! Why should your ferrule tabs not be as smoothand perfect as your reel seat, your guide feet and the rest of your rod? Myopinion, they shouldn't be anything less. They should be as close toperfect as you can get them, so there should be no reason to worry aboutusing dark colors to hide them. .....(SNIP)Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Yeah but, yeah but... The hard part is cleaning them up after the glue is set. I don't care how careful you are, glue is absolutely, positively going to seep out from the edges, and binding thread fibers are to adhere to the glue (I learned very quickly to use only white thread, which sorta disappears under varnish, but not entirely). Use dental tools to clear the adhesive from the serrations, and you will almost certainly scratch the ferrule tabs. The scratches WILL show up under transparent wraps, especially if you have blued them. How does the successful rodmaker clean up the ferrules after glueing up? Inquiring minds, etc.. Bill from aport@si.rr.com Sun Dec 16 18:02:07 2001 fBH026t15145 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:02:06 - Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:02:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes Larry,Ya know.....If it weren't for those furschlugginer plane collectors I'd have made alot more killings in the garage sale department!! I can't tell you how manytimes I've gotten to a sale and just missed a 9 1/2 or 60 1/2 as a guy waswalking out with one. It always seemed to be the same guy and he just hadmore nerve than I did. If I got there 1/2 hr before it was supposed to starthe got there 3/4 . I can't believe he wanted all them for a collection;musta been trading them off or reselling at collectors'meets.I couldn't see why anyone would want tools to look at!!Art from aport@si.rr.com Sun Dec 16 18:05:43 2001 fBH05ht15784 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:05:43 - Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:05:41 -0500 Subject: McAfee AV I've mentioned here before that they put this on sale every year around =now and see it's up again. The local Office Max has Pro 6.0 for free =($20 - $20 rebate) if you can prove you are upgrading from a previous =one. I'm sure there will be other offers from now through January. This =seems to be the time of year they change to a new version, so if you're =willing to download an upgrade over the web, you can get it for free and =then upgrade within 30 or 60 or 90 days to the brand new version.Art I've mentioned here before that they = sale every year around now and see it's up again. The local Office Max = 6.0 for free ($20 - $20 rebate) if you can prove you are upgrading from = previous one. I'm sure there will be other offers from now through = seems to be the time of year they change to a new version, so if you're = to download an upgrade over the web, you can get it for free and then = within 30 or 60 or 90 days to the brand new version.Art from caneman@clnk.com Sun Dec 16 19:19:25 2001 fBH1JOt24990 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:19:24 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:43:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Bill,I clean the excess glue off with a dental pick, the little metal kindyou can buy in a kit at walmart, and a small scalpel. You can get itclean,usually, without hurting the tabs. Well, now I have to qualify that. IuseFer-L-Tite for my ferrules and that cleans off of the polished surfacesveryeasily. If you use one of the epoxies or something similar, it may be alotharder to clean up the tabs without screwing them up... don't know...If I do scratch one that has been blued, then I simply use the a q-tipwith metal polish on it, repolish that area, reblue that area only. Ifyou're very careful and put the blueing compound on a bit at a time, cleanit, a little more, clean again, etc. you can match the blueing on the restof the ferrule and never see the difference.Binding thread fibers sticking to the ferrules aren't a problem for me.I flatten the tabs to the flats of the rod with a small nylon faced hammerbefore I polish out. When I glue them, I bend them in slightly, then workthem on hot with the Fer-L-Tite and the tabs just lay down. The onlyexcessglue I have won't end up on the surface of the tabs very often, usuallyonlyin the very small area between the tabs. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" Yeah but, yeah but... The hard part is cleaning them up after the glue isset. I don't care how careful you are, glue is absolutely, positivelygoingto seep out from the edges, and binding thread fibers are to adhere totheglue (I learned very quickly to use only white thread, which sortadisappears under varnish, but not entirely). Use dental tools to cleartheadhesive from the serrations, and you will almost certainly scratch theferrule tabs. The scratches WILL show up under transparent wraps,especially if you have blued them. How does the successful rodmaker clean up the ferrules after glueing up? Inquiring minds, etc.. Bill from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 16 20:22:44 2001 fBH2Mht26604 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:22:44 - for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:22:42 - Subject: RE: Stanley/ Bailey planes Yeah, makes it tougher for us to find planes, that is for sure. The recentthread on using a bench plane might make it even tougher to find a goodNumber 2, also. There are a lot of "Look At" collectors out there, but there are an awfullot who buy them to use. Its easy to identify those folks... they refer topower tools as "evil tailed demons". Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:00 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes Larry,Ya know.....If it weren't for those furschlugginer plane collectors I'dhave made alot more killings in the garage sale department!! I can't tellyou how manytimes I've gotten to a sale and just missed a 9 1/2 or 60 1/2 as a guy waswalking out with one. It always seemed to be the same guy and he just hadmore nerve than I did. If I got there 1/2 hr before it wassupposed to starthe got there 3/4 . I can't believe he wanted all them for a collection;musta been trading them off or reselling at collectors'meets.I couldn't see why anyone would want tools to look at!!Art from edriddle@mindspring.com Sun Dec 16 20:30:16 2001 fBH2UFt26947 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:30:16 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16FnXf-00008w-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:30:11 -0500 Subject: Planning Form Groove I've put the tip groove in my steel planning form. Now flipping over and =ready to do the butt groove. Do I put the butt-end of the butt groove on =the same end of the form as the large end of the tip-groove, or =vice- versa? Why?TIA.Ed I've put the tip groove in my steel = the butt groove on the same end of the form as the large end of the = TIA.Ed from robertgkope@attbi.com Sun Dec 16 21:01:24 2001 fBH31Nt27585 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:01:23 -0600 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:01:14 +0000 Subject: Re: Planning Form Groove I made mine with the grooves tapered in opposite directions so you have =to flip the form end-for-end to switch sides. The reason I did this is =that I wanted to keep the heads of the screws on the side facing me so I =could guide the plane with my fingers along the back edge of the form. =This also keeps the adjusting screws on the front edge of the form so =it's easier to adjust them. -- Robert Kope Subject: Planning Form Groove I've put the tip groove in my steel planning form. Now flipping over =and ready to do the butt groove. Do I put the butt-end of the butt =groove on the same end of the form as the large end of the tip-groove, =or vice-versa? Why?TIA.Ed I made mine with the grooves tapered in= directions so you have to flip the form end-for-end to switch = side facing me so I could guide the plane with my fingers along the back = form so it's easier to adjust them. -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Riddle = Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001= PMSubject: Planning Form =Groove I've put the tip groove in my steel = butt-end of the butt groove on the same end of the form as the large = TIA.Ed from jojo@ipa.net Sun Dec 16 21:44:02 2001 fBH3i2t28447 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:44:02 -0600 helo=default) id 16Foh2-00010D-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:43:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Planning Form Groove I made the large ends on the same end so that I wouldn't have to flip =them, only roll them over. M-D Subject: Re: Planning Form Groove I made mine with the grooves tapered in opposite directions so you =have to flip the form end-for-end to switch sides. The reason I did =this is that I wanted to keep the heads of the screws on the side facing =me so I could guide the plane with my fingers along the back edge of the =form. This also keeps the adjusting screws on the front edge of the =form so it's easier to adjust them. -- Robert Kope Subject: Planning Form Groove I've put the tip groove in my steel planning form. Now flipping over =and ready to do the butt groove. Do I put the butt-end of the butt =groove on the same end of the form as the large end of the tip-groove, =or vice-versa? Why?TIA.Ed I made the large endson = so that I wouldn't have to flip them, only roll them =over. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Kope rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu= Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Planning Form =Groove I made mine with the grooves tapered = directions so you have to flip the form end-for-end to switch = side facing me so I could guide the plane with my fingers along the = the form so it's easier to adjust them. -- Robert Kope ----- Original Message ----- Riddle = Sent: Sunday, December 16, = PMSubject: Planning Form =Groove I've put the tip groove in my steel = butt-end of the butt groove on the same end of the form as the large = TIA.Ed from DNHayashida@aol.com Sun Dec 16 22:04:27 2001 fBH44Qt00395 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:04:26 - for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:03:07 - Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes I agree with you here! Those collectors are really inflating the prices on ebay! Especially the size 2's and 1's. I felt like I wanted to say "Hey! I just want one to use. Let me get just one and then I'll be gone." Since a Lie-Nielsen size 2 is $235.00 I set a upper limit of $150.00 - $175.00 (depending on condition) to get a Stanley size 2 on ebay. Above that and I might as well buy the LN. That's why I felt like I made a killing by getting a Fulton size 2 for $50.00. Fulton was a Stanley competitor and made a high quality plane. It had an older Stanley blade, although I hear Fulton blades were better, being a little thicker. The Stanley blade was one of the older ones which is evident by the hardness. I find older (before approx. 1932) blades are a lot harder than the newer ones and hold an edge a lot longer. If you want a size 1 just go to LN. Stanley size 1's on ebay are $500.00 plus. Size 3's and 4's are still reasonable. I got a 3 for $30.00 and a 4 for $22.00Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/16/01 4:02:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,aport@si.rr.com writes: Larry,Ya know.....If it weren't for those furschlugginer plane collectors I'd have made alot more killings in the garage sale department!! Iagree with you here! Those collectors are really inflating the prices on ebay!Especially the size 2's and 1's. I felt like I wanted to say "Hey! I just want oneto use. Let me get just one and then I'll be gone." Since a Lie-Nielsen size 2 is$235.00 I set a upper limit of $150.00 - $175.00 (depending on condition) toget a Stanley size 2 on ebay. Above that and I might as well buy the LN.That's why I felt like I made a killing by getting a Fulton size 2 for $50.00.Fulton was a Stanley competitor and made a high quality plane. It had an olderStanley blade, although I hear Fulton blades were better, being a littlethicker. The Stanley blade was one of the older ones which is evident by thehardness. I find older (before approx. 1932) blades are a lot harder than thenewer ones and hold an edge a lot longer. If you want a size 1 just go to LN. Stanley size 1's on ebay are $500.00 plus.Size 3's and 4's are still reasonable. I got a 3 for $30.00 and a 4 for$22.00Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/16/01 4:02:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,aport@si.rr.com writes: Larry, have made alot more killings in the garage sale department!! from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 16 22:19:51 2001 fBH4Jpt02821 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:19:51 - for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:19:49 - Subject: RE: Stanley/ Bailey planes Yeah Darryl, you are spot on with the prices and options, like when it istime to circle the wagons and buy a LN. Even the old full bed 9-1/2's aregetting pricey. I was tempted to post the URL's of a few places when we had the plane bladespat going on, but I have this little personality quirk that lets me allowpeople to wallow in their ignorance. These guys know Stanley planes!! Wherewe talk about Model Numbers, they speak of the 67 variations of that Modelthat exist. They know, amongst other things, that Stanley made laminatedirons once upon a time. They also know that older usually equates to better! Larry Blan-----Original Message----- DNHayashida@aol.com Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes I agree with you here! Those collectors are really inflating the prices onebay! Especially the size 2's and 1's. I felt like I wanted to say "Hey! Ijust want one to use. Let me get just one and then I'll be gone." Since aLie-Nielsen size 2 is $235.00 I set a upper limit of $150.00 - $175.00(depending on condition) to get a Stanley size 2 on ebay. Above that and Imight as well buy the LN. That's why I felt like I made a killing by gettinga Fulton size 2 for $50.00. Fulton was a Stanley competitor and made a highquality plane. It had an older Stanley blade, although I hear Fulton bladeswere better, being a little thicker. The Stanley blade was one of the olderones which is evident by the hardness. I find older (before approx. 1932)blades are a lot harder than the newer ones and hold an edge a lot longer. If you want a size 1 just go to LN. Stanley size 1's on ebay are $500.00plus. Size 3's and 4's are still reasonable. I got a 3 for $30.00 and a 4 Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/16/01 4:02:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,aport@si.rr.com writes: Larry,Ya know.....If it weren't for those furschlugginer plane collectors I'd have made alot more killings in the garage sale department!! from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 16 22:27:20 2001 fBH4RJt04198 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:27:19 - Subject: RE: Attachments I apologize for the attachments that I have been sending. For some reason,if I receive an HTML message, when my client sends it as plain text, itsends the original, with the plain text mail as an attachment. I'm not surewhen it decided it wanted to do this, will have to poke about in the notmuch help files. Larry Blan from bassflyrodder@hotmail.com Sun Dec 16 22:31:51 2001 fBH4Vpt05135 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:31:51 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:31:42 -0800 HTTP; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:31:42 GMT Subject: Introduction FILETIME=[BA682560:01C186B3] Hi all,I am a newbie from the northern Pa area. The list has been a very big help in making things move along rather quickly and I have 3 rods under my belt to date. I know most rods are designed for trout but I am also a bass bug fanatic. Would anyone share a good taper for a bugin rod? I would be most thankful. Thanks and happy holidays, Pete _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Dec 16 22:53:48 2001 fBH4rlt08331 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:53:47 - (authenticated) for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:53:21 -0800 Subject: Dust, dust, everywhere Friends, I've spent most of the past week re-arrangingmy shop so that a couple more workbenches could beadded. I literally took everything in the shop,except the lathe, outside and dusted it off, thenwiped it down with a damp rag, before bringing itback in. Threw out two huge garbage bags full ofjunk, much of it belonging to my better half. Myshop looks so nice right now that I'm thinking oftaking some pictures for future reference. [;-)] Therein lies the problem. I could not believethere was so much dust. Filled up the Shop Vac acouple of times. Top shelves had more dust than Icould ever imagine. Here's the question... Do any of you havesuggestions for keeping the dust semi-controlled?I'm very familiar with woodworking dust removalsystems, but in my tiny 6.5'x18' shop that's alittle like a $100 saddle on a $5 horse. I'mpretty diligent about using the Shop Vac, and Ihave one of the small hepa filter arrangements from Wally World near the varnishing area. Itseems to me that almost everything related tobamboo rodmaking creates clouds and clouds ofdust, from check splitting to polishing out thevarnish. All suggestions appreciated! Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 16 23:08:25 2001 fBH58Pt10046 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:08:25 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:08:24 - Subject: Grit Equivalents Just ran across this, thought I'd share it. It is a chart showing gritequivalencies for the various types of abrasives, including ScotchBrite. http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/grits.htm Larry Blan from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sun Dec 16 23:27:07 2001 fBH5R6t12590 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:27:06 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere Harry just smack your pant leg or your shirt sleeve and look to see how muchdust particles fly off.. Or just move your light buld that you work under..My trade is Heating and air and I think the best thing you can do is use anelctronic air cleaner attach to furnance, and then put a Exhaust Fan on theopposite side of shop, then all dust will collect on oppsite side of yourshop.. Thanks Dave ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dust, dust, everywhere Friends, I've spent most of the past week re-arrangingmy shop so that a couple more workbenches could beadded. I literally took everything in the shop,except the lathe, outside and dusted it off, thenwiped it down with a damp rag, before bringing itback in. Threw out two huge garbage bags full ofjunk, much of it belonging to my better half. Myshop looks so nice right now that I'm thinking oftaking some pictures for future reference. [;-)] Therein lies the problem. I could not believethere was so much dust. Filled up the Shop Vac acouple of times. Top shelves had more dust than Icould ever imagine. Here's the question... Do any of you havesuggestions for keeping the dust semi-controlled?I'm very familiar with woodworking dust removalsystems, but in my tiny 6.5'x18' shop that's alittle like a $100 saddle on a $5 horse. I'mpretty diligent about using the Shop Vac, and Ihave one of the small hepa filter arrangements from Wally World near the varnishing area. Itseems to me that almost everything related tobamboo rodmaking creates clouds and clouds ofdust, from check splitting to polishing out thevarnish. All suggestions appreciated! Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from saweiss@flash.net Sun Dec 16 23:31:28 2001 fBH5VRt13305 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:31:27 -0600 fBH5VQR300916 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:31:26 -0500 Subject: "buggin" rod Organization: Prodigy Internet Try Wayne Cattanach's 8' 6-wt (The Force) or its parent taper, the PaulYoung Para 15. If you want more power, try the Para 17Steve . Would anyone share a good taper for a bugin rod? from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Dec 16 23:36:27 2001 fBH5aRt14024 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:36:27 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:35:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Sliding Band Reel Seats I have heard this (about the reel foot on reels) being standardized. a reel seat that I bought.Both reel and seat were from manufactures of these things that are known=through out the industry. (please nobody have a cow, I'm not trying to =slam any maker of these two items)Just to point out that from my experience (even though they are supposed =to be standardized) most reel feet vary quite a bit from manufacture to =manufacture.I now make my own reel seats ,so what I do is take a reel with a foot =that I know is oversize and a reel with a foot that is undersize and I =have come up with an average to make the mortise depth in the seats I = I will say that I have boughten seats in the past, that some of my reels =would not fit.Before I made seats, I did a restoration once for a guy that I had to =replace a $100 + seat Who should I have asked for a refund? The seat maker or the reel maker?Tough call, both will swear they made it to industry standards. Yet they =didn't fit.Seen this on more than one occasion too. Anyone else? www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I have heard this (about the reel foot on reels) being =standardized.The funny thing is: I heard it from a reel manufacturer when I = called them about the fact that their reel foot would not fit on = Both reel and seat were from manufactures of these things that are = through out the industry. (please nobody have a cow, I'm not trying to = maker of these two items)Just to point out that from my experience (even though they are = manufacture. foot that I know is oversize and a reel with a foot that is undersize = reels would not fit. replace a $100 + seat maker?Tough call, both will swear they made it to industry standards. Yet = didn't fit.Seen this on more than one occasion too. Anyone else? www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from channer@frontier.net Sun Dec 16 23:38:20 2001 fBH5cJt14434 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:38:19 - for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:53:29 - Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules Bill;That's easy, just sand the glue and thread fuzz off with 1000 and 2000grit sandpaper after you clean out the serrations. If you use Accraglas,don't clean the tabs off with laquer thinnner, no matter how well itworks, the tabs will come loose from the bamboo. And how might I knowsuch a thing you may ask.John Bill Hoy wrote: Yeah but, yeah but... The hard part is cleaning them up after the glue isset. I don't care how careful you are, glue is absolutely, positively goingto seep out from the edges, and binding thread fibers are to adhere to theglue (I learned very quickly to use only white thread, which sortadisappears under varnish, but not entirely). Use dental tools to clear theadhesive from the serrations, and you will almost certainly scratch theferrule tabs. The scratches WILL show up under transparent wraps,especially if you have blued them. How does the successful rodmaker cleanup the ferrules after glueing up? Inquiring minds, etc.. Bill from flyfish@defnet.com Sun Dec 16 23:46:37 2001 fBH5kat15659 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:46:36 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:45:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Dust,dust everywhere HarryStopping the dust is like trying to stop the wind LOLJust can't be done.:))I create so much dust, the spider's in my shop have to ride around in =dune buggy's:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} HarryStopping the dust is like trying to stop the wind LOLJust can't be done.:)) around in dune buggy's:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from caneman@clnk.com Mon Dec 17 00:02:19 2001 fBH62It17794 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:02:18 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:26:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere Just told harry this offlist, but if you'll all buy a Harley and park it inyour shop, you won't have dust problems... all the dust will seek out thescoot and every nook and cranny of it will hold at least a months worth ofwood, cork and bamboo dust! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Dust, dust, everywhere Friends, I've spent most of the past week re-arrangingmy shop so that a couple more workbenches could beadded. I literally took everything in the shop,except the lathe, outside and dusted it off, thenwiped it down with a damp rag, before bringing itback in. Threw out two huge garbage bags full ofjunk, much of it belonging to my better half. Myshop looks so nice right now that I'm thinking oftaking some pictures for future reference. [;-)] Therein lies the problem. I could not believethere was so much dust. Filled up the Shop Vac acouple of times. Top shelves had more dust than Icould ever imagine. Here's the question... Do any of you havesuggestions for keeping the dust semi-controlled?I'm very familiar with woodworking dust removalsystems, but in my tiny 6.5'x18' shop that's alittle like a $100 saddle on a $5 horse. I'mpretty diligent about using the Shop Vac, and Ihave one of the small hepa filter arrangements from Wally World near the varnishing area. Itseems to me that almost everything related tobamboo rodmaking creates clouds and clouds ofdust, from check splitting to polishing out thevarnish. All suggestions appreciated! Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 00:13:46 2001 fBH6Dkt18325 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:13:46 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:13:37 -0800 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:13:36 GMT Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere FILETIME=[F7379670:01C186C1] Hello Harry: breathing has gotten so bad that I had to stop making rods for nearly amonth. I previously had bought an air cleaning system for $250.00 with thehope that it would take care of the problem, wrong! What I've finally done isto first clean the entire shop, then I put doors on the front of both of myworkbench's. This has really helped to keep the dust from settling on all of my workbench's. Nearly everything is stored behind the doors so the dustdon't end up settling on the tools and materials that were perviously on topof the benches. I can actually now see the top of my workbench and caneasily clean it with little effort. I've also stopped all sanding in my shop. If Ineed to sand anything, I now take it outside, no matter how cold it is. Haven'tquite figured out!what I'll do in February when it'll be 30 Rodmakers MSN Photos is the easiest way toshare and print your photos: ClickHere from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 00:22:21 2001 fBH6MKt18820 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:22:20 -0600 Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:22:14 -0800 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:22:14 GMT Subject: Joke New Priest FILETIME=[2B81B4F0:01C186C3] know you were seats put in to church filled "And, you told me a back to church, roll gospel choir too far with the confessions have nearly Hell" Send and receive Hotmail on yourmobile device: ClickHere from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 01:33:38 2001 fBH7Xat20513 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:33:36 - Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Red is a man with vast knowledge. At 04:12 PM 12/16/01 -0600, Dave Norling wrote: Red Green sys "any tool is a hammer"-----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: Rodmakers Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:13 AMSubject: Re: Bench Planes continued /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 01:33:42 2001 fBH7Xft20519 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:33:41 - Subject: RE: Stanley/ Bailey planes One of my brothers is a brickie (brick layer) so power tools are all you see on site except for a hand saw usually left in a half full bucket of morter or rusting in the back of a Hi Lux which they loving refer to as the "cordless saw". Tony At 09:27 PM 12/16/01 -0500, Larry Blan wrote: Yeah, makes it tougher for us to find planes, that is for sure. The recentthread on using a bench plane might make it even tougher to find a goodNumber 2, also. There are a lot of "Look At" collectors out there, but there are an awfullot who buy them to use. Its easy to identify those folks... they refer topower tools as "evil tailed demons". Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:00 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes Larry,Ya know.....If it weren't for those furschlugginer plane collectors I'dhave made alot more killings in the garage sale department!! I can't tellyou how manytimes I've gotten to a sale and just missed a 9 1/2 or 60 1/2 as a guywaswalking out with one. It always seemed to be the same guy and he justhadmore nerve than I did. If I got there 1/2 hr before it wassupposed to starthe got there 3/4 . I can't believe he wanted all them for a collection;musta been trading them off or reselling at collectors'meets.I couldn't see why anyone would want tools to look at!!Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 01:33:43 2001 fBH7Xft20520 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:33:41 - Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes Collectors destroy all they touch. They are the creeping evil in the night and inflaters of prices. They lay waste wide areas of previously fertile plains and make sterile formally fecund resources.Beware the creeping evil with foul taint and deal not with one that collects with intent of userus inflation for as surly the sun will rise in the morrow regret will follow and when the current trend of old goods daintily placed upon coffee table and mantle piece wide and far desists as it surely must these same trinkets and baubles formally much prized will find their way into the trash heap of time with bottomed prices for that paid high for in the here and now. Tony At 11:03 PM 12/16/01 -0500, DNHayashida@aol.com wrote: I agree with you here! Those collectors are really inflating the prices on ebay! Especially the size 2's and 1's. I felt like I wanted to say "Hey! I just want one to use. Let me get just one and then I'll be gone." Since a Lie-Nielsen size 2 is $235.00 I set a upper limit of $150.00 - $175.00 (depending on condition) to get a Stanley size 2 on ebay. Above that and I might as well buy the LN. That's why I felt like I made a killing by getting a Fulton size 2 for $50.00. Fulton was a Stanley competitor and made a high quality plane. It had an older Stanley blade, although I hear Fulton blades were better, being a little thicker. The Stanley blade was one of the older ones which is evident by the hardness. I find older (before approx. 1932) blades are a lot harder than the newer ones and hold an edge a lot longer. If you want a size 1 just go to LN. Stanley size 1's on ebay are $500.00 plus. Size 3's and 4's are still reasonable. I got a 3 for $30.00 and a 4 Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/16/01 4:02:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, aport@si.rr.com writes: Larry,Ya know.....If it weren't for those furschlugginer plane collectors I'd have made alot more killings in the garage sale department!! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 01:33:46 2001 fBH7Xit20528 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:33:45 - Subject: Re: Sliding Band Reel Seats I was making reel seats for a little while and stopped for that very reason though there were so other practical ones of supply as well the fitting problem was the last straw.I have a few reels laying around and not one is the same size foot though two are not older than 18 months old they are different too.Basically, it's a real hassle. Tony At 12:37 AM 12/17/01 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: I have heard this (about the reel foot on reels) being standardized.The funny thing is: I heard it from a reel manufacturer when Icalled them about the fact that their reel foot would not fit ona reel seat that I bought.Both reel and seat were from manufactures of these things that are known through out the industry. (please nobody have a cow, I'm not trying to slam any maker of these two items)Just to point out that from my experience (even though they are supposed to be standardized) most reel feet vary quite a bit from manufacture to manufacture.I now make my own reel seats ,so what I do is take a reel with a foot that I know is oversize and a reel with a foot that is undersize and I have come up with an average to make the mortise depth in the seats I make.I will say that I have boughten seats in the past, that some of my reels would not fit.Before I made seats, I did a restoration once for a guy that I had to replace a $100 + seatbecause when he got the rod, his reel would not fit on it.Who should I have asked for a refund? The seat maker or the reel maker?Tough call, both will swear they made it to industry standards. Yet they didn't fit.Seen this on more than one occasion too. Anyone else?Tonywww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 02:15:13 2001 fBH8FCt21744 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 02:15:12 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:14:55 -0800 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:14:55 GMT Subject: Re: Sliding Band Reel Seats FILETIME=[E9408B60:01C186D2] It is a real problem. I fit my seats to work with my Hardy Perfect. If the customers reel does not fit I would suggest they obtain a real reel. [:)] A.J. From: Tony Young Subject: Re: Sliding Band Reel SeatsDate: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:43:55 +0800 I was making reel seats for a little while and stopped for that very reasonthough there were so other practical ones of supply as well the fittingproblem was the last straw.I have a few reels laying around and not one is the same size foot thoughtwo are not older than 18 months old they are different too.Basically, it's a real hassle. Tony At 12:37 AM 12/17/01 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: I have heard this (about the reel foot on reels) being standardized.The funny thing is: I heard it from a reel manufacturer when Icalled them about the fact that their reel foot would not fit ona reel seat that I bought.Both reel and seat were from manufactures of these things that areknownthrough out the industry. (please nobody have a cow, I'm not trying toslam any maker of these two items)Just to point out that from my experience (even though they aresupposedto be standardized) most reel feet vary quite a bit from manufacture tomanufacture.I now make my own reel seats ,so what I do is take a reel with a foot thatI know is oversize and a reel with a foot that is undersize and I havecome up with an average to make the mortise depth in the seats I make.I will say that I have boughten seats in the past, that some of my reelswould not fit.Before I made seats, I did a restoration once for a guy that I had toreplace a $100 + seatbecause when he got the rod, his reel would not fit on it.Who should I have asked for a refund? The seat maker or the reel maker?Tough call, both will swear they made it to industry standards. Yet theydidn't fit.Seen this on more than one occasion too. Anyone else?Tonywww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 02:19:10 2001 fBH8J9t22009 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 02:19:09 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:19:04 -0800 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:19:03 GMT Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere FILETIME=[7D4CEF60:01C186D3] I think my old Norton Commando would be even better, you know how oil and grease attracts that dust!A.J. From: "Bob Nunley" Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhereDate: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:58:33 -0600 Just told harry this offlist, but if you'll all buy a Harley and park it inyour shop, you won't have dust problems... all the dust will seek out thescoot and every nook and cranny of it will hold at least a months worth ofwood, cork and bamboo dust! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 10:50 PMSubject: Dust, dust, everywhere Friends, I've spent most of the past week re-arrangingmy shop so that a couple more workbenches could beadded. I literally took everything in the shop,except the lathe, outside and dusted it off, thenwiped it down with a damp rag, before bringing itback in. Threw out two huge garbage bags full ofjunk, much of it belonging to my better half. Myshop looks so nice right now that I'm thinking oftaking some pictures for future reference. [;-)] Therein lies the problem. I could not believethere was so much dust. Filled up the Shop Vac acouple of times. Top shelves had more dust than Icould ever imagine. Here's the question... Do any of you havesuggestions for keeping the dust semi-controlled?I'm very familiar with woodworking dust removalsystems, but in my tiny 6.5'x18' shop that's alittle like a $100 saddle on a $5 horse. I'mpretty diligent about using the Shop Vac, and Ihave one of the small hepa filter arrangements from Wally World near the varnishing area. Itseems to me that almost everything related tobamboo rodmaking creates clouds and clouds ofdust, from check splitting to polishing out thevarnish. All suggestions appreciated! Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 02:23:53 2001 fBH8Nrt22293 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 02:23:53 -0600 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:23:44 -0800 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:23:44 GMT Subject: Re: Introduction FILETIME=[245232C0:01C186D4] Try a Payne Canadian Canoe rodA.J. From: "Peter Lawrence" Subject: IntroductionDate: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:31:42 -0500 Hi all,I am a newbie from the northern Pa area. The list has been a very big helpin making things move along rather quickly and I have 3 rods under my beltto date. I know most rods are designed for trout but I am also a bass bugfanatic. Would anyone share a good taper for a bugin rod? I would be mostthankful. Thanks and happy holidays, Pete _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Dec 17 04:06:31 2001 fBHA6Tt23384 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:06:30 - fBHA6MV89514; Subject: Re: Planning Form Groove Mine have the grooves "same-ended" because when you set the tip taper =dimensions, you can use the butt side to initial plane the tips, which =can be convenient if you are starting with tip strips which are a bit =oversized. Peter Mine have the grooves "same-ended" = set the tip taper dimensions, you can use the butt side to initial plane = tips, which can be convenient if you are starting with tip strips which = bit oversized. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Dec 17 04:17:07 2001 fBHAH5t23769 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:17:05 - fBHAGwV91502; Subject: Re: Silk on Ferrules If you bind with fine wire, no fuzz. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Dec 17 04:21:23 2001 fBHALLt24005 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:21:22 - fBHALGq92361; Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes Things, Mr Young, do not "rust" when in the back of a Hi Lux! They simply acquire a patina. Peter from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Dec 17 04:44:17 2001 fBHAiHt24454 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:44:17 - ;Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:44:11 +0000 Subject: Re: Planning Form Groove I made two sets of forms. One set has tip and butt on same end. The =other has mid section on one side and adjustable starter groove on =opposite side flanked by two non tapered grooves of different depths. I =have push and pull bolts on opposite sides so I can adjust both at the =same time. This setup allows me to butt the tip & mid sides or the mid & = Subject: Re: Planning Form Groove Mine have the grooves "same-ended" because when you set the tip taper =dimensions, you can use the butt side to initial plane the tips, which =can be convenient if you are starting with tip strips which are a bit =oversized. Peter I made two sets of forms. One set has= on same end. The other has mid section on one side and adjustable = on opposite side flanked by two non tapered grooves of different depths. = push and pull bolts on opposite sides so I can adjust both at the same = From:Peter McKean Cc: rodmakers Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:05 AMSubject: Re: Planning Form Groove Mine have the grooves "same-ended" = set the tip taper dimensions, you can use the butt side to initial plane = tips, which can be convenient if you are starting with tip strips which = bit oversized. Peter from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Dec 17 05:33:20 2001 fBHBXJt25169 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 05:33:19 -0600 0000 (63.228.47.212) Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere Jim,Why not wear a dust mask?Dave-----Original Message-----From: Jim Bureau RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere Hello Harry: I too have suffered from a bad dust problem in my shop. My =breathing has gotten so bad that I had to stop making rods for nearly a =month. I previously had bought an air cleaning system for $250.00 with =the hope that it would take care of the problem, wrong! What I've =finally done is to first clean the entire shop, then I put doors on the =front of both of my workbench's. This has really helped to keep the dust = from settling on all of my shelves and tools, being as the shelves are =behind the doors. I also added shelves and now keep almost nothing on =the top of my workbench's. Nearly everything is stored behind the doors =so the dust don't end up settling on the tools and materials that were =perviously on top of the benches. I can actually now see the top of my =workbench and can easily clean it with little effort. I've also stopped =all sanding in my shop. If I need to sand anything, I now take it =outside, no matter how cold it is. Haven't quite figured out! what I'll =do in February when it'll be 30 below? Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------= MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click =Here Jim,Why notwear a = mask?Dave -----Original = fbcwin@3g.quik.com = RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu = Monday, December 17, 2001 12:14 AMSubject: Re:Dust, = everywhere Hello Harry: breathing has gotten so bad that I had to stop making rods for = month. I previously had bought an air cleaning system for $250.00 = hope that it would take care of the problem, wrong! What I've = is to first clean the entire shop, then I put doors on the front of = my workbench's. This has really helped to keep the dust from = my workbench's. Nearly everything is stored behind the doors so the = don't end up settling on the tools and materials that were = of the benches. I can actually now see the top of my workbench and = easily clean it with little effort. I've also stopped all sanding in = shop. If I need to sand anything, I now take it outside, no matter = it is. Haven't quite figured out! what I'll do in February when = = Jim Here from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 06:11:23 2001 fBHCBLt25771 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:11:22 - Subject: Re: Glue report: Aerodux resorcinol There is a web site I think many would be interested in. It has various software there much of it demo, some share, adware and some freeware for web, office, games and general bovine waste sort of stuff.I like to browse it every couple of weeks to see what's there, download some etc. There is a cow based recommendation scheme with a limit of 5 cows, the more cows the better. There is one program I'd recommend specifically:http://www.tucows.com/preview/193711.htmlThis is a very good search program using 10-11 different search engines at the same time then lists them in a surprisingly good degree of relativity. The results are kept for future use. Basically it's pretty good. Most of the programs offered are pretty good quality that I've looked at, not your usual collection of junk with a few pearls amonst it all.The address is:http://www.tucows.com/index.html If I had any financial interest in it I'd be dong something else. Yada, yada, yada Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 06:13:44 2001 fBHCDgt25963 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:13:43 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Sliding Band Reel Seats It was a Hardy, Leeda and System II I was using as a guide and still had the occasional problem. It's sort of hard to understand in some ways but there it is. Tony At 08:14 AM 12/17/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: It is a real problem. I fit my seats to work with my Hardy Perfect. If the customers reel does not fit I would suggest they obtain a real reel. [:)] A.J. From: Tony Young Subject: Re: Sliding Band Reel SeatsDate: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:43:55 +0800 I was making reel seats for a little while and stopped for that very reasonthough there were so other practical ones of supply as well the fittingproblem was the last straw.I have a few reels laying around and not one is the same size foot thoughtwo are not older than 18 months old they are different too.Basically, it's a real hassle. Tony At 12:37 AM 12/17/01 -0500, Tony Miller wrote: I have heard this (about the reel foot on reels) being standardized.The funny thing is: I heard it from a reel manufacturer when Icalled them about the fact that their reel foot would not fit ona reel seat that I bought.Both reel and seat were from manufactures of these things that areknownthrough out the industry. (please nobody have a cow, I'm not trying toslam any maker of these two items)Just to point out that from my experience (even though they aresupposedto be standardized) most reel feet vary quite a bit from manufacture tomanufacture.I now make my own reel seats ,so what I do is take a reel with a foot thatI know is oversize and a reel with a foot that is undersize and I havecome up with an average to make the mortise depth in the seats I make.I will say that I have boughten seats in the past, that some of my reelswould not fit.Before I made seats, I did a restoration once for a guy that I had toreplace a $100 + seatbecause when he got the rod, his reel would not fit on it.Who should I have asked for a refund? The seat maker or the reelmaker?Tough call, both will swear they made it to industry standards. Yet theydidn't fit.Seen this on more than one occasion too. Anyone else?Tonywww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 06:14:52 2001 fBHCEot26144 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:14:51 - Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes [:-)] OK, patina. Tony At 09:20 PM 12/17/01 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Things, Mr Young, do not "rust" when in the back of a Hi Lux! They simply acquire a patina. Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from dickay@alltel.net Mon Dec 17 06:51:38 2001 fBHCpbt26836 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:51:37 - srv.alltel.net Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:51:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes Then I have a lot of tools with a heck of a patina on them. What is a HiLux? Is that what we up here call a Pick-Up Truck?Dick Fuhrman from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Dec 17 07:16:54 2001 fBHDGrt27374 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:16:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Planning Form Groove --=====_100859491141=_ Hi Ed,I don't think it matters which way the shallow ends are on or vice versa.The reason I say this is I cant remember which way my forms are set up. Brad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/16/01 at 9:31 PM Ed Riddle wrote:I've put the tip groove in my steel planning form. Now flipping over and=ready to do the butt groove. Do I put the butt-end of the butt groove on=the same end of the form as the large end of the tip-groove, or=vice-versa? Why?TIA.Ed --=====_100859491141=_ Hi Ed,I don't think it matters which way the shallow ends are on or vice versa.The reason I say this is I cant remember which way my forms are set up. Brad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********On 12/16/01 at 9:31 PM Ed Riddlewrote: I've put the tip groove in my steel planning butt-end of the butt groove on the same end of the form as the large endof TIA.Ed --=====_100859491141=_-- from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 08:04:15 2001 fBHE4Et28523 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:04:14 -0600 17 Dec 2001 06:04:10 PST Subject: Agate Guides Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of AgateStrippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Dec 17 08:13:02 2001 fBHED1t28909 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:13:01 - (authenticated) Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:12:31 -0800 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere Doc, If I combine your idea with Jim Bureau's to put doors on all the shelves,I might have something workable. Thanks,Harry michael shaffer wrote: Harry,In my shop I just open the door and blow the dust out with compressed air. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Dec 17 08:58:40 2001 fBHEwet01007 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:58:40 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:58:23 - Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere Bob, That seems like an expensive solution but, a fun one. I wounder if the same bench? I guess not not enouth nooks and crannies. Mark from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 09:05:50 2001 fBHF5nt01412 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:05:49 -0600 helo=default) id 16FzKu-0002Uf-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:05:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Agate Guides All of the Agate guides which I have seen have been Agate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types of Agate. M-D Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of AgateStrippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Dec 17 09:54:37 2001 fBHFsat03575 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:54:37 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:53:23 -0500 Subject: Re:Sliding Band reel Seats Allen ,Tony,That's what I have found too.:)I've even found that, the same manufacture (in some cases) differs from =model to modeland even if you get the same model it differs. Although not as much.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Allen ,Tony,That's what I have found too.:)I've even found that, the same manufacture (in some cases) differs = model to modeland even if you get the same model it differs. Although not as =much.best regardsTony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Dec 17 10:45:20 2001 fBHGjJt05854 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:45:19 - Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere I polished all the aluminum a few years ago on my 59 Matchless, but theamount of dust layer on it you would never know it. from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 11:28:28 2001 fBHHSRt07871 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:28:27 -0600 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:28:27 PST Subject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from harms1@pa.net Mon Dec 17 11:54:19 2001 fBHHsIt09139 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:54:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (orgemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harderthan natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it istrue, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDStobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did thefishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there somethingunique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serve aswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from darrell@vFish.net Mon Dec 17 11:56:17 2001 fBHHuGt09348 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:56:16 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:56:12 -0600 , Subject: RE: Dust, dust, everywhere Jeeez!!! The oldies but goodies are starting to come out! I loved the old Matchless's, Vincent's and a friend owned a "Norvin" a ManxNorton chassis and a Vincent Shadow 1000cc engine in it! That was anawesomemachine. Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump... Darrell -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere I polished all the aluminum a few years ago on my 59 Matchless, but theamount of dust layer on it you would never know it. from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 17 12:10:49 2001 fBHIAmt10078 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:10:48 -0600 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:09:32 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:10:39 -0800 Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary(cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz -hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metalfile or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen is atype of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamondare the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (orgemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harderthan natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it istrue, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDStobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did thefishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there somethingunique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serve aswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from Andrew_Harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Dec 17 12:43:47 2001 fBHIhkt11460 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:43:46 -0600 2001 -0500 2001 -0500 rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:34:57 -0500 id ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:30:35 -0500 Subject: RE: "buggin" rod also consider the Dickerson 8015 Guide... -----Original Message----- Subject: "buggin" rod Try Wayne Cattanach's 8' 6-wt (The Force) or its parent taper, the PaulYoung Para 15. If you want more power, try the Para 17Steve . Would anyone share a good taper for a bugin rod? from darrell@vFish.net Mon Dec 17 12:47:09 2001 fBHIl8t11828 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:47:08 -0600 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:47:06 -0600 Subject: RE: Agate Guides That's interesting... I've owned a couple rods that the Agate guides wereheavily worn... Guess the owners really got their money's worth. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary(cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz -hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metalfile or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen is atype of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamondare the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (orgemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harderthan natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it istrue, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDStobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did thefishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there somethingunique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serve aswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialorprivileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 17 13:13:44 2001 fBHJDht15300 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:13:43 -0600 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:12:35 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:13:42 -0800 Subject: RE: Agate Guides Yes, must have been lots of use with dirty lines, probably braided silk thattrapped a lot of sand grains.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Agate Guides That's interesting... I've owned a couple rods that the Agate guides wereheavily worn... Guess the owners really got their money's worth. Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary(cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz -hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metalfile or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen isatype of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamondare the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (or gemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harder than natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it is true, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDS tobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did the fishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there something unique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serveaswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialorprivileged. The information is intended to be for the use of theindividualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be awarethatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Mon Dec 17 13:14:52 2001 fBHJEmt15491 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:14:48 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:14:46 +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?re.:_dusty_MC=B4s?= fBHJEqt15499 Must admit I have in my garagea BSA A7 1949 - the first paralleltwin from BSA. Restored it yearsago and it is stil in exellent condition. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: RE: Dust, dust, everywhere Jeeez!!! The oldies but goodies are starting to come out! I loved the old Matchless's, Vincent's and a friend owned a "Norvin" a ManxNorton chassis and a Vincent Shadow 1000cc engine in it! That was anawesomemachine. Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:44 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere I polished all the aluminum a few years ago on my 59 Matchless, but theamount of dust layer on it you would never know it. from earsdws@duke.edu Mon Dec 17 13:34:18 2001 fBHJYHt17074 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:34:17 - fBHJYAv03625; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: quadrates - again. Last week I was very impressed by the number of responses I receivedconcerning conversion factors for hex to quad. Now i want to rephrasethat questions and ask those of you who make AND use quads to post yourfavorite tapers. I am most interested in the shorter, lighter tapers.Thanks in advance, dws. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Mon Dec 17 13:39:28 2001 fBHJdRt17485 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:39:27 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:39:10 -0800 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:39:10 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: re.: dusty MC's FILETIME=[7FB30DC0:01C18732] OK, since we are on this, I have a '74 Honda CB750 which I am converting to a Dunstall Honda (cafe bars, big 6 gallon tank and lowered seat). Now if I can just get all my bags set up to take my fishing gear on my next ride..... Rob Clarke From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: re.: dusty MC'sDate: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:17:20 +0100 Must admit I have in my garagea BSA A7 1949 - the first paralleltwin from BSA. Restored it yearsago and it is stil in exellent condition. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" ; Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:56 PMSubject: RE: Dust, dust, everywhere Jeeez!!! The oldies but goodies are starting to come out! I loved the old Matchless's, Vincent's and a friend owned a "Norvin" a Manx Norton chassis and a Vincent Shadow 1000cc engine in it! That was an awesome machine. Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:44 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere I polished all the aluminum a few years ago on my 59 Matchless, but theamount of dust layer on it you would never know it. _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from caneman@clnk.com Mon Dec 17 13:58:22 2001 fBHJwMt18583 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:58:22 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) , Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_dusty_MC=B4s?= Geez, Now all we have to do is figure out how to get all of us in one place.We could have an Antique/Classic Motorcycle Run all our own, the Ice AgeRiders!!! (may of my friends call my windshield a "Pteradactyl Guard" causethey figure I bought it when those things were still plentiful). Start outat a nice pub, end up on the Gallatin River!!! I already have an idea forhow to mount multiple rods on a Harley, that I'm sure could be adapted toBSA, Vincent, Norton, and about any other bike we could come up with! Bob from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Dec 17 14:29:49 2001 fBHKTmt20636 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:29:48 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:29:43 +0000 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= ,, Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_dusty_MC=B4s?= Bob,How about starting out at the "Half Moon Saloon": its already on theGallatin at Big Sky? We could ride down to Spanish Creek and fish and talkto Jane Fonda, although I don't know if she or Ted Turner got the Buffaloranch when they split the blanket..Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: dusty MC's Geez, Now all we have to do is figure out how to get all of us in one place.We could have an Antique/Classic Motorcycle Run all our own, the Ice AgeRiders!!! (may of my friends call my windshield a "Pteradactyl Guard" causethey figure I bought it when those things were still plentiful). Start outat a nice pub, end up on the Gallatin River!!! I already have an idea forhow to mount multiple rods on a Harley, that I'm sure could be adapted toBSA, Vincent, Norton, and about any other bike we could come up with! Bob from caneman@clnk.com Mon Dec 17 14:32:51 2001 fBHKWot20962 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:32:50 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= ,, Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_dusty_MC=B4s?= Don,Sounds good to me, and I don't know who got the ranch either, but it'scovered with "No Trespassing--Property of Turner Enterprises" signs! Still,even though it's a long drive up a dirt road, there's great brookie fishingon the upper end of Spanish Creek... got some pics of some dandy littleBrooks from this summer! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: dusty MC's Bob,How about starting out at the "Half Moon Saloon": its already on theGallatin at Big Sky? We could ride down to Spanish Creek and fish and talkto Jane Fonda, although I don't know if she or Ted Turner got the Buffaloranch when they split the blanket..Don----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:54 AMSubject: Re: dusty MC's Geez, Now all we have to do is figure out how to get all of us in one place. We could have an Antique/Classic Motorcycle Run all our own, the Ice AgeRiders!!! (may of my friends call my windshield a "Pteradactyl Guard" cause they figure I bought it when those things were still plentiful). Start out at a nice pub, end up on the Gallatin River!!! I already have an idea forhow to mount multiple rods on a Harley, that I'm sure could be adapted toBSA, Vincent, Norton, and about any other bike we could come up with! Bob from ctcaneman@yahoo.com Mon Dec 17 14:42:19 2001 fBHKgIt21582 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:42:18 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:42:12 PST Subject: Re: Blanks Thanks to all that responded - NO more "G" wordsmentioned here.I'll look elsewhere for a blank, don't want anyhingreal fancy, something to play around with, get tolearn the charectoristics of bamboo flyrods. Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Dec 17 15:00:31 2001 fBHL0Ut22626 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:00:30 - ([209.178.134.229] helo=g2t8c9) id 16G4s8-00072M-00; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:00:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere Heres a funny thing. I work out of my garage to make my rods. It is awoodshop with sanders, table saw etc. My wife is a fantastic tole painter. Itaught here how to use all of the tools, this way I do not have to do it.Dust is a way of life here. One way I deal with it is I open up the garagedoor and get out the leaf blower. I set that sucker on tornado power andhave at it. It looks like desert storm with all the crap that comes flyingout of my garage. I let the dust settle and do it again. When my wife comesin and starts up her belt sander I just walk out. The last thing I want tohear when I am planning is Whrrrrrrrrrrr! The crazy part is even if no oneis working in the shop everything gets covered with dust anyway. Thank good for the drain tube for finishing. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Dust, dust, everywhere Friends, I've spent most of the past week re-arrangingmy shop so that a couple more workbenches could beadded. I literally took everything in the shop,except the lathe, outside and dusted it off, thenwiped it down with a damp rag, before bringing itback in. Threw out two huge garbage bags full ofjunk, much of it belonging to my better half. Myshop looks so nice right now that I'm thinking oftaking some pictures for future reference. [;-)] Therein lies the problem. I could not believethere was so much dust. Filled up the Shop Vac acouple of times. Top shelves had more dust than Icould ever imagine. Here's the question... Do any of you havesuggestions for keeping the dust semi-controlled?I'm very familiar with woodworking dust removalsystems, but in my tiny 6.5'x18' shop that's alittle like a $100 saddle on a $5 horse. I'mpretty diligent about using the Shop Vac, and Ihave one of the small hepa filter arrangements from Wally World near the varnishing area. Itseems to me that almost everything related tobamboo rodmaking creates clouds and clouds ofdust, from check splitting to polishing out thevarnish. All suggestions appreciated! Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from HARRISTRIBE@aol.com Mon Dec 17 15:09:35 2001 fBHL9Yt23296 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:09:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Agate Guides The reason a sandy line will wear out an agate guide is because agate is a criptocrystalline variety of quartz which usually formes in holes (vugs) within existing rock formations. This type of crystal structure is so small that it is undetectable even under high magnification or aphanitic. This is a relatively unstable and less dense arrangement of molecules which will not hold together as well as micro or macrocrystalline quartz. The quartz sand found in rivers is weathered out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant to erosion. Even though the hardness of the various quartz forms may be similar on the mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in crystal form which makes your stripping guide wear out. Jim Harris The reason a sandy line variety of quartz which usually formes in holes (vugs) within existing rock undetectable even under high magnification or aphanitic. This is a relativelyunstable and less dense arrangement of molecules which will not hold found in rivers is weathered out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant may be similar on the mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in crystal form Jim Harris from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Dec 17 15:14:42 2001 fBHLEgt23812 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:14:42 - ([209.178.134.229] helo=g2t8c9) id 16G55t-00045D-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:14:41 -0800 Subject: beveler plans I have drawn up some plans for a medved style router beveler. If anyone hasan interest let me know and I will send you a copy. They are a lot moredetailed then what is out there right now. They show how I put mine togetherand it works flawlessy and is very simple to make. Only about 4hrs of work. So just let me know who wants a copy. Adam Vigil from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon Dec 17 15:35:37 2001 fBHLZZt25044 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:35:36 - helo=tcimet.net) id 16G5Q6-0007RI-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:35:34 -0800 Subject: Re: re.: dusty =?iso-8859-1?Q?MC=B4s?= Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans to acquireone. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it"rodmakingtool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;- )))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac Robert Clarke wrote: OK, since we are on this, I have a '74 Honda CB750 which I am converting toa Dunstall Honda (cafe bars, big 6 gallon tank and lowered seat). Now if Ican just get all my bags set up to take my fishing gear on my next ride..... Rob Clarke From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: re.: dusty MC'sDate: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:17:20 +0100 Must admit I have in my garagea BSA A7 1949 - the first paralleltwin from BSA. Restored it yearsago and it is stil in exellent condition. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" ; Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:56 PMSubject: RE: Dust, dust, everywhere Jeeez!!! The oldies but goodies are starting to come out! I loved the old Matchless's, Vincent's and a friend owned a "Norvin" a Manx Norton chassis and a Vincent Shadow 1000cc engine in it! That was an awesome machine. Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:44 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere I polished all the aluminum a few years ago on my 59 Matchless, but theamount of dust layer on it you would never know it. _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Mon Dec 17 15:52:08 2001 fBHLq6t26009 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:52:07 - fBHL3Wf10856 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:03:32 -0300 Subject: Agate Guides Hola a todos. Despues de mucho tiempo, puedo volver a comunicarme. Dice =Willam Harms. La piedra de agata se consigue tambien en Argentina. =Efectivamente es asi. En la Provincia de San Luis estan las canteras. =Hay un lugar que se llama "La Toma" y es unos de los principales lugares =de extracci=F3n. Lamentablemente todas las canteras estan cerradas, por =problemas economicos. Actualmente los lugare=F1os lo hacen a nivel =artesanal. Lamentablemente esa provincia esta a 2500 Kms, de la ciudad =en que yo vivo, Mar del Plata. Muchas veces trate de comunicarme a =traves de internes con alguna persona que trabajan en el lugar. Yo nunca =obtuve buenos resultados. de todos modos yo puedo conseguir las piedras =ya talladas, en un lugar donde venden piedras semipreciosas. Yo las =consigo en colores Rojo, Blanco y Negro. Vienen en varias medidas. El =precio que yo pago por ellas es de 2 Dolares cada una. A mi me parece =que son caras, pero por lo menos las consigo. Otro tema. Yo recibi el =programa de conversion para las ca=F1as cuadradas, gracias Claude =Freaner. Yo estoy de color verde tratando de aprender a usarlo. Ya =veremos. Bueno, me despido afectuosamente y hasta pronto. Alberto ( La =Avispa ). Hello to all. After a lot of time, I communicate again. Willam Harms =says. The agate stone is also gotten in Argentina. Indeed it is this =way. The quarries are in San Luis' County. There is a place that he/she =calls himself" The Taking" and it is some of the main extraction places. =Regrettably all the quarries are closed, for economic problems. At the =moment the villagers make it at handmade level. Regrettably that county =this to 2500 Kms, of the city in that I live, Mar del Plata. Many times =he/she tries to communicate through you intern with some person that =you/they work in the place. I never obtained good results. anyway I can =already get the stones carved, in a locus in quo they sell stones =semipreciosas. I get them in Red colors, Blanco and Black. They come in =several measures. The price that I pay for them is of 2 Dollars each =one. To my I find that they are expensive, but at least I get them. =Another topic. I received the conversion program for the square canes, =thank you Claude Freaner. I am of green color trying to learn how to use =it. We will already see. Good, I say goodbye affectionately and until = joseus@cybertech.com.arwww.geocities.com/albertoyjoseusman Hola a todos. Despues de mucho tiempo, puedo volver a comunicarme. = Willam Harms. La piedra de agata se consigue tambien en Argentina. = es asi. En la Provincia de San Luis estan las canteras. Hay un lugar que = Lamentablemente todas las canteras estan cerradas, por problemas = Actualmente los lugare=F1os lo hacen a nivel artesanal. Lamentablemente = provincia esta a 2500 Kms, de la ciudad en que yo vivo, Mar del Plata. = veces trate de comunicarme a traves de internes con alguna persona que = semipreciosas. Yo las consigo en colores Rojo, Blanco y Negro. Vienen en = medidas. El precio que yo pago por ellas es de 2 Dolares cada una. A mi = parece que son caras, pero por lo menos las consigo. Otro tema. Yo = programa de conversion para las ca=F1as cuadradas, gracias Claude = estoy de color verde tratando de aprender a usarlo. Ya veremos. Bueno, = despido afectuosamente y hasta pronto. Alberto ( La Avispa ).Hello to all. After a lot of time, I communicate again. Willam Harms = The agate stone is also gotten in Argentina. Indeed it is this way. The = are in San Luis' County. There is a place that he/she calls himself" The = and it is some of the main extraction places. Regrettably all the = closed, for economic problems. At the moment the villagers make it at = level. Regrettably that county this to 2500 Kms, of the city in that I = del Plata. Many times he/she tries to communicate through you intern = person that you/they work in the place. I never obtained good results. = semipreciosas. I get them in Red colors, Blanco and Black. They come in = measures. The price that I pay for them is of 2 Dollars each one. To my = that they are expensive, but at least I get them. Another topic. I = conversion program for the square canes, thank you Claude Freaner. I am = color trying to learn how to use it. We will already see. Good, I say = affectionately and until soon. Alberto (The Wasp). = joseus@cybertech.com.arwww.geocities.com/alb=ertoyjoseusman from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 15:56:28 2001 fBHLuRt26354 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:56:27 -0600 helo=default) id 16G5kI-0003X9-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:56:26 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_dusty_MC=B4s?= How about if we just drown Jane in Spanish Creek? Call it our contributionto society. }B^)> M-D Bob,How about starting out at the "Half Moon Saloon": its already on theGallatin at Big Sky? We could ride down to Spanish Creek and fish and talkto Jane Fonda, although I don't know if she or Ted Turner got the Buffaloranch when they split the blanket..Don From: "Bob Nunley" Geez, Now all we have to do is figure out how to get all of us in one place. We could have an Antique/Classic Motorcycle Run all our own, the Ice AgeRiders!!! (may of my friends call my windshield a "Pteradactyl Guard" cause they figure I bought it when those things were still plentiful). Start out at a nice pub, end up on the Gallatin River!!! I already have an idea forhow to mount multiple rods on a Harley, that I'm sure could be adapted toBSA, Vincent, Norton, and about any other bike we could come up with! Bob from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Dec 17 15:59:16 2001 fBHLxGt26656 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:59:16 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:59:11 - Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: Harleys and Such Is this the Hell's Anglers listserve? from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 16:04:45 2001 fBHM4it27114 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:04:44 - helo=default) id 16G5sA-0008Io-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:04:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks A show of hands from anyone who would make Paul a blank, reasonablypriced,in a reasonable amount of time. I'm out, with too much to do, as it is. M-D Thanks to all that responded - NO more "G" wordsmentioned here.I'll look elsewhere for a blank, don't want anyhingreal fancy, something to play around with, get tolearn the charectoristics of bamboo flyrods. Paul from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 16:09:39 2001 fBHM9ct27559 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:09:38 -0600 helo=default) id 16G5x2-0005D7-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:09:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Agate Guides Very interesting, and probably explains why agate can be chemically dyed =so well. Some areas take dye well, others don't, leaving the striated =pattern we so often see. BTW, before soaking in the chemical bath, agate =must be cooked to get the moisture out of it. M-D The reason a sandy line will wear out an agate guide is because agate =is a criptocrystalline variety of quartz which usually formes in holes =(vugs) within existing rock formations. This type of crystal structure =is so small that it is undetectable even under high magnification or =aphanitic. This is a relatively unstable and less dense arrangement of =molecules which will not hold together as well as micro or =macrocrystalline quartz. The quartz sand found in rivers is weathered =out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant to erosion. Even =though the hardness of the various quartz forms may be similar on the =mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in crystal form which makes your = Very interesting, and = explains why agate can be chemically dyed so well. Some areas take dye = get the moisture out of it. M-D HARRISTRIBE@aol.com The reason a sandy line will = under high magnification or aphanitic. This is a relatively unstable = dense arrangement of molecules which will not hold together as well as = out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant to erosion. = though the hardness of the various quartz forms may be similar on the = hardness scale, it is the variance in crystal form which makes your = from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Mon Dec 17 16:10:14 2001 fBHMADt27676 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:10:13 - Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_re.:_dusty_MC=B4s?= fBHMAEt27679 Mac, if You think rodmaking can be an expensivepastime, take up redoing old motorbikes - it willruin You faster than slow horses. regards, carsten ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: re.: dusty MC's Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans toacquireone. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it"rodmakingtool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;- )))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac Robert Clarke wrote: OK, since we are on this, I have a '74 Honda CB750 which I am convertingtoa Dunstall Honda (cafe bars, big 6 gallon tank and lowered seat). Now if Ican just get all my bags set up to take my fishing gear on my nextride..... Rob Clarke From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: re.: dusty MC'sDate: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:17:20 +0100 Must admit I have in my garagea BSA A7 1949 - the first paralleltwin from BSA. Restored it yearsago and it is stil in exellent condition. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" ; Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:56 PMSubject: RE: Dust, dust, everywhere Jeeez!!! The oldies but goodies are starting to come out! I loved the old Matchless's, Vincent's and a friend owned a "Norvin" a Manx Norton chassis and a Vincent Shadow 1000cc engine in it! That wasan awesome machine. Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:44 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere I polished all the aluminum a few years ago on my 59 Matchless, buttheamount of dust layer on it you would never know it. _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 16:15:26 2001 fBHMFQt28163 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:15:26 -0600 helo=default) id 16G62e-0003ve-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:15:25 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_re.:_dusty_MC=B4s?= Yeah, I saw where this was heading, too. First it's fly fishing, then it'srodmaking, now I'll have to have a Harley just so I can go fly fishing withthe rods I make. What's next? Just what I need -- another expensive hobby. M-D Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans to acquire one. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it" rodmaking tool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;-)))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Dec 17 16:19:19 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fBHMJJt28577 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:19:19 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:19:18 -0600 "RodMakers List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Bench Planes continued I've read this before but I don't get just how you do this with either kindof plane. Are you just holding the plane in your hand and just tapping it,or is it held down against a surface? BK -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Tony, Tapping the body of the plane with a small wooden or plastic mallet isnot abad method at all for moving the iron in Stanley-type block planes athousandth ortwo either direction. If I find that I want to move things a little withoutchanging my settings, I just give the plane a little whack with the plastichandleof a good sized screwdriver.One of the few tricks John Bradford taught me. Harry Tony Young wrote: One other hassle is the iron adjustment is done by tapping the *plane* NOTthe iron with a small hammer. You tap the fron to make the iron slip downmore and visa versa.You get the hang of it pretty quick and it's actually not too bad BUT it'snot hi tech enough for most people. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Dec 17 16:19:22 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fBHMJMt28582 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:19:22 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:19:21 -0600 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Agate Guides Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? Whatspecial equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interestedin making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this idea inrelation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary(cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz -hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metalfile or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen is atype of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamondare the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (orgemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harderthan natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it istrue, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDStobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did thefishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there somethingunique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serve aswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialorprivileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 16:19:24 2001 fBHMJNt28587 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:19:23 -0600 helo=default) id 16G66U-0001ly-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:19:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Harleys and Such I believe we've a possible new moniker. M-D Is this the Hell's Anglers listserve? from caneman@clnk.com Mon Dec 17 16:21:09 2001 fBHML8t29156 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:21:08 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Canerods and Harley runs! Is this the Hell's Anglers listserve? Speaking of Hell's Anglers, Don did make a great suggestion. The "HalfMoon" and Spanish Creek!!! If you've never had the oppurtunity to fishSpanish Creek off the Gallatin, then you've missed something special. It'sin Griz country, but is a Cane fishers paradise. Fiesty little brookiesanywhere from not much bigger than a #8 stonefly to 14 inchers that knowevery current flow, rock and root in this small stream. I fished there inAugust, and had an absolute blast with my little 5'6" 4 wt quad.Now, next year, at the FFF Conclave, Ralph Moon will be hosting the bigBamboo Symposium, which I will be part of, but I can assure you, Old ManNunley, will be hobbling and limping his way to all his little hideawaycutthroat and brookie playgrounds, so anyone who's interested in going tothey Symposium, be sure and set aside some time the week before to beentertained on some of the finest small streams in the Northwest US... Ofcourse, cane rods are required, as will ice cold dark beer, as these fish wewill hunt are classy and deserve only the best, and blindfolds will benecessary for the trip to at least two of these water holes... If you peek,you will be shot, streamside, execution style! *S* After a long daysfishing... drinks at the Murray, one of the best, if not THE best FlyfishingAfter Hours spots I've ever been to!I know Troy Miller is going to try to go, I WILL be there, Jerry MadiganI hope will be there again, we gotta drag Dave Collyer there, if we can(dave is bigger than me, so maybe there'll be someone slower than I if wehave a bear encounter next year... I'm tired of being the "target"), HopingLowell, Dennis, Dennie C., and may others will be back next year. Thistime, I WILL make more time for fishing! I only set aside 7 days forfishing this year... a good two weeks next year at least!!!OK, OK, I know... this sounds like a commercial statement for the BambooSymposium and the "secret" holes, a hook to get you there, and maybe itis... Yes, I will be working the symposium and helping Ralph Moon out inevery possible way, but I'm not getting paid, so that really doesn't makethis a commercial post, does it??? I'm doing it for three reasons... 1. tohelp my good friend Ralph put on the best bamboo symposium in history, 2.Because I love to do things like this and 3. To help spread the gospel ofcane! What was it they said in "The Movie", Harry? Paul was a dry flyfisherman? *S* So anyone and everyone who can get there, come on down. Ipromise it will NOT suck! Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 16:21:35 2001 fBHMLYt29304 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:21:35 -0600 helo=default) id 16G68a-0006TH-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:21:33 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_re.:_dusty_MC=B4s?= Rebuilding old airplanes is even more expensive -- horribly so. M-D Mac, if You think rodmaking can be an expensivepastime, take up redoing old motorbikes - it willruin You faster than slow horses. regards, carsten From: "Ralph MacKenzie" Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans to acquire one. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it" rodmaking tool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;-)))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac from lblan@provide.net Mon Dec 17 16:26:56 2001 fBHMQut00041 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:26:56 -0600 with HTTP id 7253866 for ; Mon, 17 Dec2001 17:26:55 -0500 Subject: Re: dusty =?ISO-8859-1?Q?MC=B4s?= M-D; I'm shocked! Before we rush off and do anything rash, Ithink some discussion is in order. What effect might thishave on the local trout population? Larry Blan On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:56:18 -0600"Jojo DeLancier" wrote: How about if we just drown Jane in Spanish Creek? Call itour contributionto society. }B^)> M-D From: "Don Schneider" Bob,How about starting out at the "Half Moon Saloon": its already on the Gallatin at Big Sky? We could ride down to Spanish Creek and fish and talk to Jane Fonda, although I don't know if she or Ted Turner got the Buffalo ranch when they split the blanket..Don from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 17 16:35:44 2001 fBHMZht00640 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:35:43 -0600 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:34:27 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:35:35 -0800 Subject: RE: Agate Guides Making the agate ring is easy. Two diamond core drills, one for the outerdiameter, one for the inner diameter. Of course a drill press makes it a loteasier, and the core drills should be cooled with water, then you have topolish them, and of course then you have to make the frame, set the agateina bezel, solder it the frame, polish the frame.....Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? Whatspecial equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interestedin making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this ideainrelation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary(cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz -hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metalfile or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen isatype of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamondare the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (or gemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harder than natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it is true, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDS tobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did the fishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there something unique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serveaswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialorprivileged. The information is intended to be for the use of theindividualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be awarethatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Dec 17 16:58:07 2001 fBHMw6t01585 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:58:06 - 0000 Subject: Re: Agate Guides Barry,I recently started making my own. I'm working on an article w/ pictures forPowerfibers. David Rinker wrote a short tutorial not long ago to the list. I pasted itbelow. After that, i included a jig clarification proc.This is what I used as my starting point. For core drills I used1/2" Lapcraft core drill and a 1/4" core drill. this gives you a ring 3/8"OD, 1/4" ID. The lapcraft drills are expensive ($35), the other drills Iused were $5 - 10. Kingsley North has a website with pictures of the coredrills. I drill under water. I went through tons of agate to get a dozenor so rings, I have a long way to go on technique. Drill slow and seeDavid's procedure regarding jig because you have to drill from both sides.I got my agate from a wholesaler, 100 slabs (1/8") thick for $50. Probable75% were useful. I put the ring on a wood mandrel in the lathe and form theoutside with a diamond file. Chamfer the inside with a diamond bur in thelathe. Polish with diamond paste.All other stuff, 18 ga. Nickel silver wire and nickel silver bezel I got from Kingsely or Alpha I forget. Alpha also has a decent website. Forsolder I use Stay Brite, melts at 450 degrees F. The bezel pusher, whichforms the bezel around the stone, I made from brass. Basically, I made atapered hole in the center of two pieces of brass round stock, like a die.I make a ring the same OD as the agate ring, press it over the agate ringand put between the two pieces of brass and tap with a hammer. It bendsthesides over the ring. The frame is straight forward. Solder it all togetherand there you go. I blacken mine, they come out nice.The rings are by far the most difficult to master. The drills are not cheapand I did dull one, that is why I now drill under water. The rest ispractice. This has been a very time consuming project, but like fly tying,once you get it, things go ok. Its getting past the first couple that looklike hell. If you want more info feel free to ask. Good LuckTom. DAVID'S proc.:My steps are a bit rustic Im sure but they work. - Find agate sheets at a lapidary supply or have them cut. I have gottensome from Einsteins Emporium on the web. The smaller sizes are thinnerusually. Thinner is better I think. I also stop in any lapidary store Ipass. -Get a matched set of core drills 11mm/6.5mm O.D and 13mm/9.5mm theycovermost ring sizes. Rio Grande Supply and Kingsley North are my suppliers for these both haveweb pages - Create a jig so you can core out agate from both sides if not I have atendency to blow out the back side. My jig is a 4x6 piece ofplexaglas with a 1/8 piece of butyl rubber cover into which I have drilledtwo holes with brass tubing to match the diameter of the inner core. Thetubing is just high enough to grab the hole for centering. I set this up onthe drill press and core the inside and then the outside diameters useplenty of liquid. I use a solution for this from Rio Grande. After cutting Ishape and buff with diamond burrs tapered point and diamond pastes ontoothpicks. I use a set of arbors and cups to hold the stone rings in placethat I made. I do all of this on my lathe. Option two is to find out whereDarryl Whitehead is getting rings made... -I bezel the rings with nickel silver 1/8" flat bezel stock "Metalworks.com bezel pusher. Rio Grande sells them. Or talk to Hal Bacon he has anotherway to do this. -form the wire for the cage flat out and solder with stay bright solder onwhat will become the feet. I use 16 and 18 gauge Nickel silver wire fromMetalworks. Visualize the cage flat out and create some form of a bendingjig to match it. - Bend up the sides of the cage around a drill rod I use 1/4 an 3/8 inch toform the arch. - Press in the agate ring and carefully solder the wire to the bezel withstay bright solder. I use a heat sink like yellow ochre if you are afraid of cracking the agate. Ithappens. - dremel the feet into shape flatten the bottom of the feet with sandpaperand buff the works. Now I any of this makes sense good luck. Joe Arguello's Web page has photos of some of the tools and materialsnecessary you can get to him through Rodmakers.End Dave Rinker's proc. MORE on the jig: As i said you can not drill straight through the agate, it will blow out theback side. The jig is so you can drill out half way on one side, flip itover and drill out the other side. David used brass tubing, I made mine outof Nickel silver but it serves the same purpose. The core drill is similarto a hole saw. What I do is on the drill press table I have a tray and init is a piece of plexiglass. I clamp down the plexiglass and tray so it cannot move. I drill through the plexiglass with the small core drill (1/4").Fill the tray with water. Now I put a piece of agate down and drill into ithalf way. The jig is a piece of tube that will fit in the cut out in theagate and also fit snuggly in the hole drilled previously in the plexiglass.So when the jig is put in the hole, the agate piece will fit on the tube andthe drill will drill on the exact opposite side of the agate. The rubber isso the thing won't spin out of control when you get to the cut throughpoint. I don't use rubber, just where a glove. Use 1200 rpm or thereabouts, go slow, the wieght of your arm should be all that is needed. Asyou get close to punching through you can hear it, slow down even more.Then when I get through, I press the hole in the agate on the drill to evenout the hole. Now you need a second tube that fits the in the hole of theplexiglass and fits in the center of the hole of the agate you just made.Switch to the bigger drill (1/2"), drill half way, flip the agate over anddrill the other half. Go slow, this is where I loose many a piece of agate. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Agate Guides Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? Whatspecial equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interestedin making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this idea in relation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary(cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz -hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metalfile or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen is a type of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamondare the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (or gemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harder than natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it is true, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDS tobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did the fishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there something unique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serveaswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 17 17:04:30 2001 fBHN4Tt01982 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:04:29 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4176. . Clean. Processed in 0.704989 secs); 17 Dec 200123:04:29 -0000 Subject: Re: Agate Guides Agate is stone , Agateen is glass. Marty Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have been Agate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types of Agate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of AgateStrippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. from "Marty D. aka \"none" Mon Dec 17 17:10:49 2001 fBHNAmt02386 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:10:48 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4176. . Clean. Processed in 1.465622 secs); 17 Dec 200123:10:48 -0000 Subject: Re: Blanks Me too! Marty Jojo DeLancier wrote: A show of hands from anyone who would make Paul a blank, reasonablypriced,in a reasonable amount of time. I'm out, with too much to do, as it is. M-D From: "Paul Hamm" Thanks to all that responded - NO more "G" wordsmentioned here.I'll look elsewhere for a blank, don't want anyhingreal fancy, something to play around with, get tolearn the charectoristics of bamboo flyrods. Paul from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Dec 17 17:13:43 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fBHNDgt02686 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:13:42 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:13:42 -0600 Subject: RE: Agate Guides Tom and Darryl - Thanks for the great information! This list is the best.... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Agate Guides Barry,I recently started making my own. I'm working on an article w/ pictures forPowerfibers. David Rinker wrote a short tutorial not long ago to the list. I pasted itbelow. After that, i included a jig clarification proc.This is what I used as my starting point. For core drills I used1/2" Lapcraft core drill and a 1/4" core drill. this gives you a ring 3/8"OD, 1/4" ID. The lapcraft drills are expensive ($35), the other drills Iused were $5 - 10. Kingsley North has a website with pictures of the coredrills. I drill under water. I went through tons of agate to get a dozenor so rings, I have a long way to go on technique. Drill slow and seeDavid's procedure regarding jig because you have to drill from both sides.I got my agate from a wholesaler, 100 slabs (1/8") thick for $50. Probable75% were useful. I put the ring on a wood mandrel in the lathe and form theoutside with a diamond file. Chamfer the inside with a diamond bur in thelathe. Polish with diamond paste.All other stuff, 18 ga. Nickel silver wire and nickel silver bezel I got from Kingsely or Alpha I forget. Alpha also has a decent website. Forsolder I use Stay Brite, melts at 450 degrees F. The bezel pusher, whichforms the bezel around the stone, I made from brass. Basically, I made atapered hole in the center of two pieces of brass round stock, like a die.I make a ring the same OD as the agate ring, press it over the agate ringand put between the two pieces of brass and tap with a hammer. It bendsthesides over the ring. The frame is straight forward. Solder it all togetherand there you go. I blacken mine, they come out nice.The rings are by far the most difficult to master. The drills are not cheapand I did dull one, that is why I now drill under water. The rest ispractice. This has been a very time consuming project, but like fly tying,once you get it, things go ok. Its getting past the first couple that looklike hell. If you want more info feel free to ask. Good LuckTom. DAVID'S proc.:My steps are a bit rustic Im sure but they work. - Find agate sheets at a lapidary supply or have them cut. I have gottensome from Einsteins Emporium on the web. The smaller sizes are thinnerusually. Thinner is better I think. I also stop in any lapidary store Ipass. -Get a matched set of core drills 11mm/6.5mm O.D and 13mm/9.5mm theycovermost ring sizes. Rio Grande Supply and Kingsley North are my suppliers for these both haveweb pages - Create a jig so you can core out agate from both sides if not I have atendency to blow out the back side. My jig is a 4x6 piece ofplexaglas with a 1/8 piece of butyl rubber cover into which I have drilledtwo holes with brass tubing to match the diameter of the inner core. Thetubing is just high enough to grab the hole for centering. I set this up onthe drill press and core the inside and then the outside diameters useplenty of liquid. I use a solution for this from Rio Grande. After cutting Ishape and buff with diamond burrs tapered point and diamond pastes ontoothpicks. I use a set of arbors and cups to hold the stone rings in placethat I made. I do all of this on my lathe. Option two is to find out whereDarryl Whitehead is getting rings made... -I bezel the rings with nickel silver 1/8" flat bezel stock "Metalworks.com bezel pusher. Rio Grande sells them. Or talk to Hal Bacon he has anotherway to do this. -form the wire for the cage flat out and solder with stay bright solder onwhat will become the feet. I use 16 and 18 gauge Nickel silver wire fromMetalworks. Visualize the cage flat out and create some form of a bendingjig to match it. - Bend up the sides of the cage around a drill rod I use 1/4 an 3/8 inch toform the arch. - Press in the agate ring and carefully solder the wire to the bezel withstay bright solder. I use a heat sink like yellow ochre if you are afraid of cracking the agate. Ithappens. - dremel the feet into shape flatten the bottom of the feet with sandpaperand buff the works. Now I any of this makes sense good luck. Joe Arguello's Web page has photos of some of the tools and materialsnecessary you can get to him through Rodmakers.End Dave Rinker's proc. MORE on the jig: As i said you can not drill straight through the agate, it will blow out theback side. The jig is so you can drill out half way on one side, flip itover and drill out the other side. David used brass tubing, I made mine outof Nickel silver but it serves the same purpose. The core drill is similarto a hole saw. What I do is on the drill press table I have a tray and init is a piece of plexiglass. I clamp down the plexiglass and tray so it cannot move. I drill through the plexiglass with the small core drill (1/4").Fill the tray with water. Now I put a piece of agate down and drill into ithalf way. The jig is a piece of tube that will fit in the cut out in theagate and also fit snuggly in the hole drilled previously in the plexiglass.So when the jig is put in the hole, the agate piece will fit on the tube andthe drill will drill on the exact opposite side of the agate. The rubber isso the thing won't spin out of control when you get to the cut throughpoint. I don't use rubber, just where a glove. Use 1200 rpm or thereabouts, go slow, the wieght of your arm should be all that is needed. Asyou get close to punching through you can hear it, slow down even more.Then when I get through, I press the hole in the agate on the drill to evenout the hole. Now you need a second tube that fits the in the hole of theplexiglass and fits in the center of the hole of the agate you just made.Switch to the bigger drill (1/2"), drill half way, flip the agate over anddrill the other half. Go slow, this is where I loose many a piece of agate. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Agate Guides Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? Whatspecial equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interestedin making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this idea in relation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary(cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz -hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metalfile or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen is a type of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamondare the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and eachsupplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are"Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (or gemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harder than natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if it is true, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDS tobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliantthan the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did the fishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there something unique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serveaswell? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Dec 17 17:17:27 2001 fBHNHRt03014 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:17:27 - Subject: Re: Blanks Paul, if you would like to contact me off list, I'll see what I can do. John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Blanks A show of hands from anyone who would make Paul a blank, reasonably priced, in a reasonable amount of time. I'm out, with too much to do, as it is. M-D From: "Paul Hamm" Thanks to all that responded - NO more "G" wordsmentioned here.I'll look elsewhere for a blank, don't want anyhingreal fancy, something to play around with, get tolearn the charectoristics of bamboo flyrods. Paul from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 17 17:17:41 2001 fBHNHet03046 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:17:40 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:15:41 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:17:32 -0800 Subject: RE: Agate Guides Speculating here...There should be an easier way....Lost wax casting for the frame perhaps? Lost wax casting can't dosomethingas thin as a bezel, but maybe find the thinnest that will cast and see ifthe bezel can still be formed around the ring. Or (gasp) glue in the agatering and buff it so that the edges are rounded? Lost wax casting can dodozens of frames at a time.The agate ring itself should be able to be polished in a tumbler.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Agate Guides Barry,I recently started making my own. I'm working on an article w/ picturesforPowerfibers. David Rinker wrote a short tutorial not long ago to the list. I pasted itbelow. After that, i included a jig clarification proc.This is what I used as my starting point. For core drills I used1/2" Lapcraft core drill and a 1/4" core drill. this gives you a ring3/8"OD, 1/4" ID. The lapcraft drills are expensive ($35), the other drills Iused were $5 - 10. Kingsley North has a website with pictures of the coredrills. I drill under water. I went through tons of agate to get a dozenor so rings, I have a long way to go on technique. Drill slow and seeDavid's procedure regarding jig because you have to drill from both sides.I got my agate from a wholesaler, 100 slabs (1/8") thick for $50.Probable75% were useful. I put the ring on a wood mandrel in the lathe and formtheoutside with a diamond file. Chamfer the inside with a diamond bur in thelathe. Polish with diamond paste.All other stuff, 18 ga. Nickel silver wire and nickel silver bezel I got from Kingsely or Alpha I forget. Alpha also has a decent website. Forsolder I use Stay Brite, melts at 450 degrees F. The bezel pusher, whichforms the bezel around the stone, I made from brass. Basically, I made atapered hole in the center of two pieces of brass round stock, like a die.I make a ring the same OD as the agate ring, press it over the agate ringand put between the two pieces of brass and tap with a hammer. It bendsthesides over the ring. The frame is straight forward. Solder it alltogetherand there you go. I blacken mine, they come out nice.The rings are by far the most difficult to master. The drills are notcheapand I did dull one, that is why I now drill under water. The rest ispractice. This has been a very time consuming project, but like flytying,once you get it, things go ok. Its getting past the first couple thatlooklike hell. If you want more info feel free to ask. Good LuckTom. DAVID'S proc.:My steps are a bit rustic Im sure but they work. - Find agate sheets at a lapidary supply or have them cut. I have gottensome from Einsteins Emporium on the web. The smaller sizes are thinnerusually. Thinner is better I think. I also stop in any lapidary store Ipass. -Get a matched set of core drills 11mm/6.5mm O.D and 13mm/9.5mmtheycovermost ring sizes. Rio Grande Supply and Kingsley North are my suppliers for these bothhaveweb pages - Create a jig so you can core out agate from both sides if not I have atendency to blow out the back side. My jig is a 4x6 piece ofplexaglas with a 1/8 piece of butyl rubber cover into which I have drilledtwo holes with brass tubing to match the diameter of the inner core. Thetubing is just high enough to grab the hole for centering. I set this uponthe drill press and core the inside and then the outside diameters useplenty of liquid. I use a solution for this from Rio Grande. After cuttingIshape and buff with diamond burrs tapered point and diamond pastes ontoothpicks. I use a set of arbors and cups to hold the stone rings inplacethat I made. I do all of this on my lathe. Option two is to find out whereDarryl Whitehead is getting rings made... -I bezel the rings with nickel silver 1/8" flat bezel stock"Metalworks.com bezel pusher. Rio Grande sells them. Or talk to Hal Bacon he has anotherway to do this. -form the wire for the cage flat out and solder with stay bright solderonwhat will become the feet. I use 16 and 18 gauge Nickel silver wire fromMetalworks. Visualize the cage flat out and create some form of a bendingjig to match it. - Bend up the sides of the cage around a drill rod I use 1/4 an 3/8 inch toform the arch. - Press in the agate ring and carefully solder the wire to the bezel withstay bright solder. I use a heat sink like yellow ochre if you are afraid of cracking the agate. Ithappens. - dremel the feet into shape flatten the bottom of the feet withsandpaperand buff the works. Now I any of this makes sense good luck. Joe Arguello's Web page has photos of some of the tools and materialsnecessary you can get to him through Rodmakers.End Dave Rinker's proc. MORE on the jig: As i said you can not drill straight through the agate, it will blow outtheback side. The jig is so you can drill out half way on one side, flip itover and drill out the other side. David used brass tubing, I made mineoutof Nickel silver but it serves the same purpose. The core drill is similarto a hole saw. What I do is on the drill press table I have a tray and init is a piece of plexiglass. I clamp down the plexiglass and tray so itcannot move. I drill through the plexiglass with the small core drill(1/4").Fill the tray with water. Now I put a piece of agate down and drill intoithalf way. The jig is a piece of tube that will fit in the cut out in theagate and also fit snuggly in the hole drilled previously in theplexiglass.So when the jig is put in the hole, the agate piece will fit on the tubeandthe drill will drill on the exact opposite side of the agate. The rubberisso the thing won't spin out of control when you get to the cut throughpoint. I don't use rubber, just where a glove. Use 1200 rpm or thereabouts, go slow, the wieght of your arm should be all that is needed. Asyou get close to punching through you can hear it, slow down even more.Then when I get through, I press the hole in the agate on the drill toevenout the hole. Now you need a second tube that fits the in the hole of theplexiglass and fits in the center of the hole of the agate you just made.Switch to the bigger drill (1/2"), drill half way, flip the agate over anddrill the other half. Go slow, this is where I loose many a piece ofagate. ----- Original Message -----From: Kling, Barry W. Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:19 PMSubject: RE: Agate Guides Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? What special equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interested in making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this in relation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary (cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz - hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metal file or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen isa type of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamond are the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and each supplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are "Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (or gemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harder than natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if itis true, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDS tobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliant than the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did the fishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there something unique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serve as well? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 17:24:07 2001 fBHNO6t03652 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:24:06 -0600 helo=default) id 16G775-0003zj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:24:03 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_dusty_MC=B4s?= Oh, my. I hadn't considered the environmental impact. Certainly a studywould be in order for such a thing. Perhaps it might be best to find astagnant backwater area, filled with trash fish -- then, no one wouldnotice. M-D M-D; I'm shocked! Before we rush off and do anything rash, Ithink some discussion is in order. What effect might thishave on the local trout population? Larry Blan On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:56:18 -0600 "Jojo DeLancier" wrote: How about if we just drown Jane in Spanish Creek? Call itour contributionto society. }B^)> M-D From: "Don Schneider" Bob,How about starting out at the "Half Moon Saloon": its already on the Gallatin at Big Sky? We could ride down to Spanish Creek and fish and talk to Jane Fonda, although I don't know if she or Ted Turner got the Buffalo ranch when they split the blanket..Don from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Dec 17 17:25:33 2001 fBHNPWt03693 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:25:32 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:23:41 -0600 pri.pacificare.com UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:25:32 -0800 Subject: RE: Agate Guides Another thought occured to me...14 kt gold frame and a ruby ring.Ruby is harder than agate, looks just like red agateen glass.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:18 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Speculating here...There should be an easier way....Lost wax casting for the frame perhaps? Lost wax casting can't dosomethingas thin as a bezel, but maybe find the thinnest that will cast and see ifthe bezel can still be formed around the ring. Or (gasp) glue in the agatering and buff it so that the edges are rounded? Lost wax casting can dodozens of frames at a time.The agate ring itself should be able to be polished in a tumbler.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Agate Guides Barry,I recently started making my own. I'm working on an article w/ picturesforPowerfibers. David Rinker wrote a short tutorial not long ago to the list. I pasted it below. After that, i included a jig clarification proc.This is what I used as my starting point. For core drills I used1/2" Lapcraft core drill and a 1/4" core drill. this gives you a ring3/8"OD, 1/4" ID. The lapcraft drills are expensive ($35), the other drills I used were $5 - 10. Kingsley North has a website with pictures of the core drills. I drill under water. I went through tons of agate to get a dozen or so rings, I have a long way to go on technique. Drill slow and seeDavid's procedure regarding jig because you have to drill from both sides. I got my agate from a wholesaler, 100 slabs (1/8") thick for $50.Probable75% were useful. I put the ring on a wood mandrel in the lathe and formtheoutside with a diamond file. Chamfer the inside with a diamond bur in the lathe. Polish with diamond paste.All other stuff, 18 ga. Nickel silver wire and nickel silver bezel I got from Kingsely or Alpha I forget. Alpha also has a decent website. Forsolder I use Stay Brite, melts at 450 degrees F. The bezel pusher, which forms the bezel around the stone, I made from brass. Basically, I made a tapered hole in the center of two pieces of brass round stock, like a die. I make a ring the same OD as the agate ring, press it over the agate ring and put between the two pieces of brass and tap with a hammer. Itbendsthesides over the ring. The frame is straight forward. Solder it alltogetherand there you go. I blacken mine, they come out nice.The rings are by far the most difficult to master. The drills are notcheapand I did dull one, that is why I now drill under water. The rest ispractice. This has been a very time consuming project, but like flytying,once you get it, things go ok. Its getting past the first couple thatlooklike hell. If you want more info feel free to ask. Good LuckTom. DAVID'S proc.:My steps are a bit rustic Im sure but they work. - Find agate sheets at a lapidary supply or have them cut. I have gottensome from Einsteins Emporium on the web. The smaller sizes are thinnerusually. Thinner is better I think. I also stop in any lapidary store Ipass. -Get a matched set of core drills 11mm/6.5mm O.D and 13mm/9.5mmtheycovermost ring sizes. Rio Grande Supply and Kingsley North are my suppliers for these bothhaveweb pages - Create a jig so you can core out agate from both sides if not I have atendency to blow out the back side. My jig is a 4x6 piece ofplexaglas with a 1/8 piece of butyl rubber cover into which I have drilled two holes with brass tubing to match the diameter of the inner core. The tubing is just high enough to grab the hole for centering. I set this up onthe drill press and core the inside and then the outside diameters useplenty of liquid. I use a solution for this from Rio Grande. After cutting Ishape and buff with diamond burrs tapered point and diamond pastes ontoothpicks. I use a set of arbors and cups to hold the stone rings inplacethat I made. I do all of this on my lathe. Option two is to find out where Darryl Whitehead is getting rings made... -I bezel the rings with nickel silver 1/8" flat bezel stock"Metalworks.com a bezel pusher. Rio Grande sells them. Or talk to Hal Bacon he has another way to do this. -form the wire for the cage flat out and solder with stay bright solderonwhat will become the feet. I use 16 and 18 gauge Nickel silver wire from Metalworks. Visualize the cage flat out and create some form of a bending jig to match it. - Bend up the sides of the cage around a drill rod I use 1/4 an 3/8 inch to form the arch. - Press in the agate ring and carefully solder the wire to the bezel with stay bright solder. I use a heat sink like yellow ochre if you are afraid of cracking the agate. Ithappens. - dremel the feet into shape flatten the bottom of the feet withsandpaperand buff the works. Now I any of this makes sense good luck. Joe Arguello's Web page has photos of some of the tools and materialsnecessary you can get to him through Rodmakers.End Dave Rinker's proc. MORE on the jig: As i said you can not drill straight through the agate, it will blow outtheback side. The jig is so you can drill out half way on one side, flip it over and drill out the other side. David used brass tubing, I made mineoutof Nickel silver but it serves the same purpose. The core drill is similar to a hole saw. What I do is on the drill press table I have a tray and in it is a piece of plexiglass. I clamp down the plexiglass and tray so itcannot move. I drill through the plexiglass with the small core drill(1/4").Fill the tray with water. Now I put a piece of agate down and drill into ithalf way. The jig is a piece of tube that will fit in the cut out in the agate and also fit snuggly in the hole drilled previously in theplexiglass.So when the jig is put in the hole, the agate piece will fit on the tubeandthe drill will drill on the exact opposite side of the agate. The rubberisso the thing won't spin out of control when you get to the cut throughpoint. I don't use rubber, just where a glove. Use 1200 rpm or thereabouts, go slow, the wieght of your arm should be all that is needed. As you get close to punching through you can hear it, slow down even more.Then when I get through, I press the hole in the agate on the drill toevenout the hole. Now you need a second tube that fits the in the hole of the plexiglass and fits in the center of the hole of the agate you just made. Switch to the bigger drill (1/2"), drill half way, flip the agate over and drill the other half. Go slow, this is where I loose many a piece ofagate. ----- Original Message -----From: Kling, Barry W. Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:19 PMSubject: RE: Agate Guides Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? What special equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interested in making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this in relation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary (cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz - hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metal file or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor is sand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand on your line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen isa type of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few things that are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamond are the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and each supplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are "Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (or gemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate have differing crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and their patterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harder than natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if itis true, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDS tobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliant than the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did the fishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there something unique to agate, or are there other common minerals that mightserve as well? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrial application. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message anddestroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of theindividual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient,be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contentsof this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 17:29:25 2001 fBHNTOt04177 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:29:24 -0600 helo=default) id 16G7CG-0006AY-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:29:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Blanks I believe Paul is now being well taken care of, which, after all, was thepoint. Nice to have such a good bunch of people willing to help outsomeone -- even though he did hit the double G's on his computer. All isforgiven, though. M-D Me too! Marty Jojo DeLancier wrote: A show of hands from anyone who would make Paul a blank, reasonably priced, in a reasonable amount of time. I'm out, with too much to do, as it is. M-D From: "Paul Hamm" Thanks to all that responded - NO more "G" wordsmentioned here.I'll look elsewhere for a blank, don't want anyhingreal fancy, something to play around with, get tolearn the charectoristics of bamboo flyrods. Paul from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 17:35:17 2001 fBHNZGt04556 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:35:17 -0600 helo=default) id 16G7Hw-0004yV-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:35:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Agate Guides After reading Tom's post involving the procedure, I'm quite certain that themaking of agate strippers is well within the realm of foolishness known asbamboo rod making. In fact, it seems a perfect compliment. I only wish I hadthe time to develop the skills. M-D Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? Whatspecial equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interestedin making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this idea in relation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry from lblan@provide.net Mon Dec 17 17:38:31 2001 fBHNcUt04838 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:38:30 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:38:29 - Subject: RE: Blanks Whew, glad someone can help Paul out, imagine his thoughts when he startedreading all of those responses after uttering the G word! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Blanks Paul, if you would like to contact me off list, I'll see what I can do. John K----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:04 PMSubject: Re: Blanks A show of hands from anyone who would make Paul a blank, reasonably priced, in a reasonable amount of time. I'm out, with too much to do, as it is. M-D From: "Paul Hamm" Thanks to all that responded - NO more "G" wordsmentioned here.I'll look elsewhere for a blank, don't want anyhingreal fancy, something to play around with, get tolearn the charectoristics of bamboo flyrods. Paul from lblan@provide.net Mon Dec 17 17:40:18 2001 fBHNeHt05020 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:40:18 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:40:14 - Subject: RE: Agate Guides Barry; you said it! I never cease to be amazed at the cumulative knowledgeof the folks that hang about on the list. Heck, we even have spiritualguidance! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:14 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Tom and Darryl - Thanks for the great information! This list is the best.... Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Agate Guides Barry,I recently started making my own. I'm working on an article w/pictures forPowerfibers. David Rinker wrote a short tutorial not long ago to the list. I pasted itbelow. After that, i included a jig clarification proc.This is what I used as my starting point. For core drills I used1/2" Lapcraft core drill and a 1/4" core drill. this gives you aring 3/8"OD, 1/4" ID. The lapcraft drills are expensive ($35), the other drills Iused were $5 - 10. Kingsley North has a website with pictures of the coredrills. I drill under water. I went through tons of agate to get a dozenor so rings, I have a long way to go on technique. Drill slow and seeDavid's procedure regarding jig because you have to drill from both sides.I got my agate from a wholesaler, 100 slabs (1/8") thick for $50.Probable75% were useful. I put the ring on a wood mandrel in the latheand form theoutside with a diamond file. Chamfer the inside with a diamond bur in thelathe. Polish with diamond paste.All other stuff, 18 ga. Nickel silver wire and nickel silver bezel I got from Kingsely or Alpha I forget. Alpha also has a decent website. Forsolder I use Stay Brite, melts at 450 degrees F. The bezel pusher, whichforms the bezel around the stone, I made from brass. Basically, I made atapered hole in the center of two pieces of brass round stock, like a die.I make a ring the same OD as the agate ring, press it over the agate ringand put between the two pieces of brass and tap with a hammer.It bends thesides over the ring. The frame is straight forward. Solder itall togetherand there you go. I blacken mine, they come out nice.The rings are by far the most difficult to master. The drillsare not cheapand I did dull one, that is why I now drill under water. The rest ispractice. This has been a very time consuming project, but likefly tying,once you get it, things go ok. Its getting past the first couplethat looklike hell. If you want more info feel free to ask. Good LuckTom. DAVID'S proc.:My steps are a bit rustic Im sure but they work. - Find agate sheets at a lapidary supply or have them cut. I have gottensome from Einsteins Emporium on the web. The smaller sizes are thinnerusually. Thinner is better I think. I also stop in any lapidary store Ipass. -Get a matched set of core drills 11mm/6.5mm O.D and 13mm/9.5mmthey covermost ring sizes. Rio Grande Supply and Kingsley North are my suppliers for theseboth haveweb pages - Create a jig so you can core out agate from both sides if not I have atendency to blow out the back side. My jig is a 4x6 piece ofplexaglas with a 1/8 piece of butyl rubber cover into which I have drilledtwo holes with brass tubing to match the diameter of the inner core. Thetubing is just high enough to grab the hole for centering. I setthis up onthe drill press and core the inside and then the outside diameters useplenty of liquid. I use a solution for this from Rio Grande.After cutting Ishape and buff with diamond burrs tapered point and diamond pastes ontoothpicks. I use a set of arbors and cups to hold the stonerings in placethat I made. I do all of this on my lathe. Option two is to find out whereDarryl Whitehead is getting rings made... -I bezel the rings with nickel silver 1/8" flat bezel stock"Metalworks.com bezel pusher. Rio Grande sells them. Or talk to Hal Bacon he has anotherway to do this. -form the wire for the cage flat out and solder with stay brightsolder onwhat will become the feet. I use 16 and 18 gauge Nickel silver wire fromMetalworks. Visualize the cage flat out and create some form of a bendingjig to match it. - Bend up the sides of the cage around a drill rod I use 1/4 an3/8 inch toform the arch. - Press in the agate ring and carefully solder the wire to the bezel withstay bright solder. I use a heat sink like yellow ochre if you are afraid of cracking the agate. Ithappens. - dremel the feet into shape flatten the bottom of the feet withsandpaperand buff the works. Now I any of this makes sense good luck. Joe Arguello's Web page has photos of some of the tools and materialsnecessary you can get to him through Rodmakers.End Dave Rinker's proc. MORE on the jig: As i said you can not drill straight through the agate, it willblow out theback side. The jig is so you can drill out half way on one side, flip itover and drill out the other side. David used brass tubing, Imade mine outof Nickel silver but it serves the same purpose. The core drill is similarto a hole saw. What I do is on the drill press table I have a tray and init is a piece of plexiglass. I clamp down the plexiglass andtray so it cannot move. I drill through the plexiglass with the small coredrill (1/4").Fill the tray with water. Now I put a piece of agate down anddrill into ithalf way. The jig is a piece of tube that will fit in the cut out in theagate and also fit snuggly in the hole drilled previously in theplexiglass.So when the jig is put in the hole, the agate piece will fit onthe tube andthe drill will drill on the exact opposite side of the agate. Therubber isso the thing won't spin out of control when you get to the cut throughpoint. I don't use rubber, just where a glove. Use 1200 rpm or thereabouts, go slow, the wieght of your arm should be all that is needed. Asyou get close to punching through you can hear it, slow down even more.Then when I get through, I press the hole in the agate on thedrill to evenout the hole. Now you need a second tube that fits the in the hole of theplexiglass and fits in the center of the hole of the agate you just made.Switch to the bigger drill (1/2"), drill half way, flip the agate over anddrill the other half. Go slow, this is where I loose many apiece of agate. ----- Original Message -----From: Kling, Barry W. Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:19 PMSubject: RE: Agate Guides Darryl - That's very interesting. How difficult is it to shape an agate ring? What special equipment does it involve and is it very expensive? I'm interested in making my own buy don't know enough to rank the stupidity of this ideain relation to the foolishness of making bamboo rods in the first place. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: RE: Agate Guides Being a former geologist, but more importantly my other hobby is lapidary (cutting and polishing of gemstomes), agate is a microcrystalline quartz - hardness of 7 on the Moh's scale. Glass is 5, ruby 9, diamond 10. A metal file or knife blade is around 6. Probably the most significant factor issand is quartz also - same hardness of agate. So if you get fine sand onyour line it won't (or very slowly) wear a groove in the agate. Agateen isa type of glass, sand will wear it away quicker. There are very few thingsthat are harder than agate. Topaz (8), cubic zirconia (8.5) ruby, diamond are the only things I can think of right off hand.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 AM Subject: Re: Agate Guides I recently bought a fair number of 1/8" agate slices to make my ownstripping guides. The slices came from three different dealers and each supplied a different kind of agate. Some are "Lake Superior," some are "Montana," and some are "Argentinian." Knowing nothing about geology (or gemology), I haven't the foggiest idea if the varieties of agate havediffering crystalline structure, but I know that the colors and theirpatterns nearly range through the rainbow. There is an artificial agate, called "agateen," which is said to be harder than natural agate, but I don't know if that is really true. And if itis true, I wonder how much harder than natural agate a stripping guide NEEDS tobe. Agateen is always uniform in color, clear and rather more brilliant than the natural stone, and shows no marbling. My question (for the gemologists or historians out there) is: Why did the fishing industry settle upon agate in the first place? Is there something unique to agate, or are there other common minerals that might serve as well? Perhaps agate was just handily "spun-off" some other industrialapplication. Just curious... . cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Chris McDowell" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:28 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides I believe carneleon agate isn't dyed, or at least Idon't know why it would need to be dyed. It hasnatural variation of clear, orange, and brown colors. The ones I have from Snake Brand appear to be natural,as the colors are not uniform, and some have bothclear and orange in them. The agatine made by Snake Brand are red glass. Chris --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All of the Agate guides which I have seen have beenAgate stone, dyed toproduce the color. There are many, many types ofAgate. M-D From: "blue fin" Greetings..... Can anyone tell me what the compoasition is of Agate Strippers? Is it Agate or glasss? TIA B.F. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Dec 17 17:40:53 2001 fBHNeqt05098 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:40:52 -0600 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:40:34 -0500 1217184034; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:40:34 -0500 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_dusty_MC=B4s?= I thought Jane was on the same flight out of the country along with AlecBaldwin and Rosie O'Donnel after Dubya was elected... In a message dated Mon, 17 Dec 2001 4:57:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,"Jojo DeLancier" writes: How about if we just drown Jane in Spanish Creek? Call it our contributionto society. }B^)> M-D From: "Don Schneider" Bob,How about starting out at the "Half Moon Saloon": its already on theGallatin at Big Sky? We could ride down to Spanish Creek and fish and talkto Jane Fonda, although I don't know if she or Ted Turner got the Buffaloranch when they split the blanket..Don From: "Bob Nunley" Geez, Now all we have to do is figure out how to get all of us in one place. We could have an Antique/Classic Motorcycle Run all our own, the Ice AgeRiders!!! (may of my friends call my windshield a "Pteradactyl Guard" cause they figure I bought it when those things were still plentiful). Start out at a nice pub, end up on the Gallatin River!!! I already have an idea forhow to mount multiple rods on a Harley, that I'm sure could be adapted toBSA, Vincent, Norton, and about any other bike we could come up with! Bob from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 17:44:39 2001 fBHNict05636 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:44:38 - helo=default) id 16G7Qz-00003z-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:44:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Agate Guides It'd shor be purty. Guess you'd need to use TiN guides, too. M-D Another thought occured to me...14 kt gold frame and a ruby ring.Ruby is harder than agate, looks just like red agateen glass.Darryl from jojo@ipa.net Mon Dec 17 17:47:13 2001 fBHNlAt05872 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:47:10 -0600 helo=default) id 16G7TQ-0001Wn-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:47:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! I'm planning on being there. M-D Is this the Hell's Anglers listserve? Speaking of Hell's Anglers, Don did make a great suggestion. The "Half Moon" and Spanish Creek!!! If you've never had the oppurtunity to fishSpanish Creek off the Gallatin, then you've missed something special. It's in Griz country, but is a Cane fishers paradise. Fiesty little brookiesanywhere from not much bigger than a #8 stonefly to 14 inchers thatknowevery current flow, rock and root in this small stream. I fished there inAugust, and had an absolute blast with my little 5'6" 4 wt quad.Now, next year, at the FFF Conclave, Ralph Moon will be hosting the big Bamboo Symposium, which I will be part of, but I can assure you, Old ManNunley, will be hobbling and limping his way to all his little hideawaycutthroat and brookie playgrounds, so anyone who's interested in going tothey Symposium, be sure and set aside some time the week before to beentertained on some of the finest small streams in the Northwest US... Ofcourse, cane rods are required, as will ice cold dark beer, as these fish we will hunt are classy and deserve only the best, and blindfolds will benecessary for the trip to at least two of these water holes... If you peek, you will be shot, streamside, execution style! *S* After a long daysfishing... drinks at the Murray, one of the best, if not THE best Flyfishing After Hours spots I've ever been to!I know Troy Miller is going to try to go, I WILL be there, Jerry Madigan I hope will be there again, we gotta drag Dave Collyer there, if we can(dave is bigger than me, so maybe there'll be someone slower than I if wehave a bear encounter next year... I'm tired of being the "target"), Hoping Lowell, Dennis, Dennie C., and may others will be back next year. Thistime, I WILL make more time for fishing! I only set aside 7 days forfishing this year... a good two weeks next year at least!!!OK, OK, I know... this sounds like a commercial statement for the Bamboo Symposium and the "secret" holes, a hook to get you there, and maybe itis... Yes, I will be working the symposium and helping Ralph Moon out inevery possible way, but I'm not getting paid, so that really doesn't makethis a commercial post, does it??? I'm doing it for three reasons... 1. to help my good friend Ralph put on the best bamboo symposium in history, 2.Because I love to do things like this and 3. To help spread the gospel ofcane! What was it they said in "The Movie", Harry? Paul was a dry flyfisherman? *S* So anyone and everyone who can get there, come on down. Ipromise it will NOT suck! Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from Jfoster@sunset.net Mon Dec 17 18:16:18 2001 fBI0GHt07020 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:16:17 -0600 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:15:15 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: duh I don't think ohmar bin laden fonda is a topic for this list no matter what property she's stolen.jerry from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Dec 17 18:56:02 2001 fBI0u2t07866 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:56:02 - fBI0tx605714 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:56:00 -0600 Subject: Emon Lee Contact me , your address was lost.Sorry for the band width.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from flyfish@defnet.com Mon Dec 17 19:11:47 2001 fBI1Bkt08295 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:11:46 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:10:36 -0500 Subject: inserts made with router Guys, I seen an article in the magazine WOOD. (DEC 2001 issue)It's how to make dowels with your router.I think this could be applied for making reel seat insertswith a router.It looks easy. This might be helpful for those who want to make their = inserts, but don't want to invest in a lathe.I scanned it and put it on a page. You can't read the words ,but the picture and drawing self explain.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Guys, I seen an article in the magazine WOOD. (DEC 2001 =issue)It's how to make dowels with your router.I think this could be applied for making reel seat insertswith a router.It looks easy. This might be helpful for those who want to make = inserts, but don't want to invest in a lathe. You can't read the words ,but the picture and drawing self =explain.Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.html from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Dec 17 19:17:52 2001 fBI1Hpt08571 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:17:51 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:17:50 - Subject: Handmills Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of purchasing a handmill. I'm getting to =the point where I can't keep up with orders and i'm looking for a way to =speed up my operation.What is the general conscensus and is there anyone in Northern New =England who has one and who would be willing to let me see it in =operation?(I'm in central Maine).TIA John K Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of = i'm looking for a way to speed up my operation.What is the general conscensus and is = in Northern New England who has one and who would be willing to let me = operation?(I'm in central Maine).TIA JohnK from beadman@mac.com Mon Dec 17 19:30:34 2001 fBI1UYt09098 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:30:34 - ;Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:30:32 -0800 Subject: Re: Harleys and Such At 4:01 PM +0000 , 12/17/01, Terry Finger wrote about Harleys and Such Is this the Hell's Anglers listserve? No, Terry, but there is such a listserv. Here's a chapter patch from one of the chapters: Claude from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Dec 17 19:55:52 2001 fBI1tpt09730 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:55:51 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:55:37 - Subject: Re: Handmills If all you are looking for is an increase in speed to make rods, your money would be better spent getting a powered beveler. If you are looking for a way to make quads, pentas as well as hexes, then a Morgan Handmill can't bebeat. If you can afford a powered beveler and a handmill, then you will be able to make rods very quickly - but then again if you are going to spend that much money, get one of the powered mills that can do all the way to final taper.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/17/01 5:18:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com writes: Hi All,I've been toying with the idea of purchasing a handmill. I'm getting to the point where I can't keep up with orders and i'm looking for a way to speed up my operation.What is the general conscensus and is there anyone in Northern NewEngland who has one and who would be willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm in central Maine).TIA If allyou are looking for is an increase in speed to make rods, your money wouldbe better spent getting a powered beveler. If you are looking for a way tomake quads, pentas as well as hexes, then a Morgan Handmill can't be beat. Ifyou can afford a powered beveler and a handmill, then you will be able tomake rods very quickly - but then again if you are going to spend that muchmoney, get one of the powered mills that can do all the way to finaltaper.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 12/17/01 5:18:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com writes:Hi All, I've been toying with the keep up with orders and i'm looking for a way to speed up myoperation.What is the generalconscensus and is there anyone in Northern New England who has one andwho would be willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm in centralMaine).TIA from fquinchat@locl.net Mon Dec 17 19:57:27 2001 fBI1vQt09984 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:57:26 - Subject: Fw: Agate Guides -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Agate Guides What would be the procedure for dying a pale agate stripper to ruby red? Dennis Bertram-----Original Message-----From: Jojo DeLancier Subject: Re: Agate Guides Very interesting, and probably explains why agate can be chemically =dyed so well. Some areas take dye well, others don't, leaving the =striated pattern we so often see. BTW, before soaking in the chemical =bath, agate must be cooked to get the moisture out of it. M-D The reason a sandy line will wear out an agate guide is because =agate is a criptocrystalline variety of quartz which usually formes in =holes (vugs) within existing rock formations. This type of crystal =structure is so small that it is undetectable even under high =magnification or aphanitic. This is a relatively unstable and less dense =arrangement of molecules which will not hold together as well as micro =or macrocrystalline quartz. The quartz sand found in rivers is =weathered out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant to erosion. =Even though the hardness of the various quartz forms may be similar on =the mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in crystal form which makes = -----Original = = 17, 2001 5:53 PMSubject: Re: Agate =GuidesWhat would be the procedure for = agate stripper to ruby red? Dennis Bertram -----Original = Monday, December 17, 2001 5:12 PMSubject: Re: GuidesVery interesting, and = explains why agate can be chemically dyed so well. Some areas take = M-D HARRISTRIBE@aol.com The reason a sandy line will wear out an agate guide is = formes in holes (vugs) within existing rock formations. = of crystal structure is so small that it is undetectable even = magnification or aphanitic. This is a relatively unstable and = arrangement of molecules which will not hold together as well as = weathered out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant to = similar on the mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in = Harris from boyko@peoplepc.com Mon Dec 17 20:14:06 2001 fBI2E5t10528 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:14:05 - 0800 -0800 Subject: Re: beveler plans I kwould appreciate a copy Lew boyko@peoplepc.com----- OriginalMessage - ---- Subject: beveler plans I have drawn up some plans for a medved style router beveler. If anyone has an interest let me know and I will send you a copy. They are a lot moredetailed then what is out there right now. They show how I put mine together and it works flawlessy and is very simple to make. Only about 4hrs of work. So just let me know who wants a copy. Adam Vigil from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Dec 17 20:15:34 2001 fBI2FYt10739 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:15:34 -0600 ([209.178.134.242] helo=g2t8c9) id 16G9n1-0005NH-00; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:15:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Agate Guides Jim, Spoken like a true geologist who works for the state of Arizona! Adam Subject: Re: Agate Guides The reason a sandy line will wear out an agate guide is because agate =is a criptocrystalline variety of quartz which usually formes in holes =(vugs) within existing rock formations. This type of crystal structure =is so small that it is undetectable even under high magnification or =aphanitic. This is a relatively unstable and less dense arrangement of =molecules which will not hold together as well as micro or =macrocrystalline quartz. The quartz sand found in rivers is weathered =out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant to erosion. Even =though the hardness of the various quartz forms may be similar on the =mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in crystal form which makes your = Jim, Spoken like a true geologist who works= state of Arizona! Adam ----- Original Message ----- HARRISTRIBE@aol.com RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001= PMSubject: Re: Agate GuidesThereason = will wear out an agate guide is because agate is a = variety of quartz which usually formes in holes (vugs) within existing = undetectable even under high magnification or aphanitic. This is a = unstable and less dense arrangement of molecules which will not hold = rivers is weathered out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant = similar on the mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in crystal form = from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Dec 17 20:30:30 2001 fBI2UTt11206 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:30:29 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:30:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! I'm planning on being there 7/27-8/10.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Canerods and Harley runs! Is this the Hell's Anglers listserve? Speaking of Hell's Anglers, Don did make a great suggestion. The "HalfMoon" and Spanish Creek!!! If you've never had the oppurtunity to fishSpanish Creek off the Gallatin, then you've missed something special. It'sin Griz country, but is a Cane fishers paradise. Fiesty little brookiesanywhere from not much bigger than a #8 stonefly to 14 inchers that knowevery current flow, rock and root in this small stream. I fished there inAugust, and had an absolute blast with my little 5'6" 4 wt quad.Now, next year, at the FFF Conclave, Ralph Moon will be hosting the bigBamboo Symposium, which I will be part of, but I can assure you, Old ManNunley, will be hobbling and limping his way to all his little hideawaycutthroat and brookie playgrounds, so anyone who's interested in going tothey Symposium, be sure and set aside some time the week before to beentertained on some of the finest small streams in the Northwest US... Ofcourse, cane rods are required, as will ice cold dark beer, as these fish wewill hunt are classy and deserve only the best, and blindfolds will benecessary for the trip to at least two of these water holes... If you peek,you will be shot, streamside, execution style! *S* After a long daysfishing... drinks at the Murray, one of the best, if not THE best FlyfishingAfter Hours spots I've ever been to!I know Troy Miller is going to try to go, I WILL be there, Jerry MadiganI hope will be there again, we gotta drag Dave Collyer there, if we can(dave is bigger than me, so maybe there'll be someone slower than I if wehave a bear encounter next year... I'm tired of being the "target"), HopingLowell, Dennis, Dennie C., and may others will be back next year. Thistime, I WILL make more time for fishing! I only set aside 7 days forfishing this year... a good two weeks next year at least!!!OK, OK, I know... this sounds like a commercial statement for the BambooSymposium and the "secret" holes, a hook to get you there, and maybe itis... Yes, I will be working the symposium and helping Ralph Moon out inevery possible way, but I'm not getting paid, so that really doesn't makethis a commercial post, does it??? I'm doing it for three reasons... 1. tohelp my good friend Ralph put on the best bamboo symposium in history, 2.Because I love to do things like this and 3. To help spread the gospel ofcane! What was it they said in "The Movie", Harry? Paul was a dry flyfisherman? *S* So anyone and everyone who can get there, come on down. Ipromise it will NOT suck! Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from DNHayashida@aol.com Mon Dec 17 20:33:56 2001 fBI2Xtt11398 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:33:55 -0600 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 21:33:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Agate Guides We may be getting into levels of semantics here, but the cryptocrystalline or aphanitic quartz is generally considered to be opal or opaline quartz. Agate is generally considered to be microcrystalline. Opal is a lot more fragile than agate, but I do agree that sand - derived from crystalline quartz, will wear on both agate and opal. In a message dated 12/17/01 6:16:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:09 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides The reason a sandy line will wear out an agate guide is because agate is a criptocrystalline variety of quartz which usually formes in holes (vugs) within existing rock formations. This type of crystal structure is so small that it is undetectable even under high magnification or aphanitic. This is a relatively unstable and less dense arrangement of molecules which will not hold together as well as micro or macrocrystalline quartz. The quartz sand found in rivers is weathered out of solid rock and is very tough and resistant to erosion. Even though the hardness of the various quartz forms may be similar on the mohs hardness scale, it is thevariance in crystal form which makes your stripping guide wear out. Jim Harris Wemay be getting into levels of semantics here, but the cryptocrystalline oraphanitic quartz is generally considered to be opal or opaline quartz. Agate isgenerally considered to be microcrystalline. Opal is a lot more fragile thanagate, but I do agree that sand - derived from crystalline quartz, will wear onboth agate and opal. In a message dated 12/17/01 6:16:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: HARRISTRIBE@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:09 PMSubject: Re: Agate Guides The reason a sandy line will wear out an agate guide is because agate is is so small that it is undetectable even under high magnification or aphanitic.This is a relatively unstable and less dense arrangement of molecules which quartz sand found in rivers is weathered out of solid rock and is very tough quartz forms may be similar on the mohs hardness scale, it is the variance in Jim Harris from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Mon Dec 17 22:00:01 2001 fBI400t16268 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:00:00 - Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! Crud ! I live here and I havent fished anywhere in that part of the country yet. I have a bike but need a can rod to participate in this trip. [:-)] Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 22:20:00 2001 fBI4Jwt19461 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:19:59 - "RodMakers List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Bench Planes continued You just hold the plane and tap it. The plane moves in the direction it's being taped (and I do mean taped, not belted lightly) and I guess the inertia of the iron more or less keeps it in place so it's shifted relative to the plane body. It's for fine adjustment in a steel plane but in a wooden one it's the way all adjustment is done. It seems a savage way to do it but with practice it works fine. I've always made wooden planes for specific jobs with boats and dingys especially for work with masts and spars, once you get used to it it's actually better than the adjustment you can get with a regular plane.You've likely seen old planes with brass buttons on the front and possibly back ends, these were for adjustment where you knocked the buttons with a hammer, to make the iron set deeper you knocked the front.Keep in mind though that for the adjustments to be set and held firm enough to hold the iron in place during use but loose enough to allow this sort of adjustment the iron has to be sharp, once it dulls it'll always move back into the plane so it's time to resharpen. In a steel body plane the iron is held in bondage so you just can just keep planing away with a dull iron.Sounds crude but in fact not too bad at all. Tony At 04:19 PM 12/17/01 -0600, Kling, Barry W. wrote: I've read this before but I don't get just how you do this with either kindof plane. Are you just holding the plane in your hand and just tapping it,or is it held down against a surface? BK -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 6:54 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: Bench Planes continued Tony, Tapping the body of the plane with a small wooden or plastic mallet isnot abad method at all for moving the iron in Stanley-type block planes athousandth ortwo either direction. If I find that I want to move things a little withoutchanging my settings, I just give the plane a little whack with the plastichandleof a good sized screwdriver.One of the few tricks John Bradford taught me. Harry Tony Young wrote: One other hassle is the iron adjustment is done by tapping the *plane*NOTthe iron with a small hammer. You tap the fron to make the iron slip downmore and visa versa.You get the hang of it pretty quick and it's actually not too bad BUT it'snot hi tech enough for most people. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Dec 17 22:23:49 2001 fBI4Nmt20178 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:23:48 - for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:23:39 - Subject: Scarry Sharp Anyone using the Scarry Sharp method for sharpening blade irons? If so,what does one need to know to make this method work successfully? Thanks, Kyle from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Dec 17 22:36:41 2001 fBI4aet21849 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:36:40 - "Peter McKean" Subject: Re: Stanley/ Bailey planes I'm hesitant to write this because I don't want to tar Peter on the list with the same brush but have you seen Bin Ladnen's bunch trundling along in 4 wheel drive vehicles with a tray back full of people bristling with AK47's and anti tank weapons? These are almost all Totota Hi Lux vehicles. Tough little buggers (local joke) that are the only cars that truly will go almost anywhere you point one in LR 1st gear though the suspension is bouncy you need a crash helmet if you're in the cabin but judging by the fact the Teliband probably never service these things and keep going are as hard wearing as Toyota say they are. Tony who wishes he did have financial interest in Toyota. At 06:48 AM 12/17/01 -0600, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Then I have a lot of tools with a heck of a patina on them. What is a HiLux? Is that what we up here call a Pick-Up Truck?Dick Fuhrman /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Mon Dec 17 22:38:42 2001 fBI4cgt22242 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:38:42 - Subject: RE: Scarry Sharp Everything you ever wanted to know about the Scary Sharp system: http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM I ran across a site that showed how to use a vacuum holddown for the paper,as opposed to gluing it too. Rather interesting idea. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu KyleDruey@aol.comSent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:24 PM Subject: Scarry Sharp Anyone using the Scarry Sharp method for sharpening blade irons?If so, whatdoes one need to know to make this method work successfully? Thanks, Kyle from CALucker@aol.com Mon Dec 17 22:56:42 2001 fBI4uft24838 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:56:41 - Subject: Re: Handmills In a message dated 12/17/2001 5:56:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, DNHayashida@aol.com writes: You could save abunch of money if you just find an old surface grinder and convert it into a finish mill. You will have a better machine than a router- based mill that can be no more accurate than its flimsy collet. But then again, you will have a machine that is hard to move. While we are on the subject, can a half dozen of you guys come over, I need to move my . . . .Chris Lucker from darrell@vFish.net Mon Dec 17 23:14:21 2001 fBI5EKt27558 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:14:20 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:14:15 -0600 Subject: RE: Canerods and Harley runs! I gotta cane rod (+ or - 100)... need a Harley... my Yamaha doesn't soundlike a Hog... Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! Crud ! I live here and I havent fished anywhere in that part of thecountry yet. I have a bike but need a can rod to participate in thistrip. [:-)] Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 18 00:06:24 2001 fBI66Ot03228 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:06:24 - helo=default) id 16GDOR-0000f7-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:06:24 -0500 Subject: Re: hide glue I came across the manufacturer's tag for the glue pot I have, and thoughtsome might find this information useful. Hold-Heet Automatic Glue Pot, 1 qt. sizeManufactured by: EMCO Electric Co.5011 North RavenswoodChicago, IL 60640 I've had this pot for 15 years, so have no idea how current the informationmight be. M-D In a message dated 11/29/01 8:34:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,harms1@pa.netwrites: I haven't heard much about using hide glues recently, and I've never triedthem myself. What sort do you use? Are choices of products stillavailable, or has this part of the industry been pretty much reduced to justone glue? from caneman@clnk.com Tue Dec 18 00:53:07 2001 fBI6r6t04963 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:53:06 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! Jim,I usually care along a half dozen or so cane rods... bet we can fix youup in that department! *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! Crud ! I live here and I havent fished anywhere in that part of thecountry yet. I have a bike but need a can rod to participate in thistrip. [:-)] Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from goodaple@cox-internet.com Tue Dec 18 00:58:07 2001 fBI6w7t05282 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:58:07 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! Hey, I want to go too!! I have a Walmart Huffy. It or at least the riderhas a fie gallon tank and it is guaranteed to make thumping noises going upinclines!!!! Randall GO. NW AR. :>)----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! Jim,I usually care along a half dozen or so cane rods... bet we can fix you up in that department! *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Jim Flinchbaugh" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:52 PMSubject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! Crud ! I live here and I havent fished anywhere in that part of thecountry yet. I have a bike but need a can rod to participate in thistrip. [:-)] Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 01:58:56 2001 fBI7wut07258 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:58:56 - Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:58:50 -0800 Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:58:50 GMT Subject: Re: re.: dusty MC's FILETIME=[D48BEAD0:01C18799] Not if it is an AMF Harley, it would break every third stripA.J. From: Ralph MacKenzie Subject: Re: re.: dusty MC'sDate: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:34:36 -0500 Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans to acquireone. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it" rodmakingtool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;- )))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac Robert Clarke wrote: OK, since we are on this, I have a '74 Honda CB750 which I am converting to a Dunstall Honda (cafe bars, big 6 gallon tank and lowered seat). Now if I can just get all my bags set up to take my fishing gear on my next ride..... Rob Clarke From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: re.: dusty MC'sDate: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:17:20 +0100 Must admit I have in my garagea BSA A7 1949 - the first paralleltwin from BSA. Restored it yearsago and it is stil in exellent condition. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: "Darrell Lee" ; Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:56 PMSubject: RE: Dust, dust, everywhere Jeeez!!! The oldies but goodies are starting to come out! I loved the old Matchless's, Vincent's and a friend owned a "Norvin" a Manx Norton chassis and a Vincent Shadow 1000cc engine in it! That wasan awesome machine. Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump... Darrell -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 8:44 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Dust, dust, everywhere I polished all the aluminum a few years ago on my 59 Matchless, but the amount of dust layer on it you would never know it. _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from "Marty D. aka \"none" Tue Dec 18 04:28:10 2001 fBIAS9t09393 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:28:10 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4176. . Clean. Processed in 0.760648 secs); 18 Dec 200110:28:09 -0000 0000 Subject: Re: Handmills --------------09A2D627352E56325D86DC3B I have seen one in action at the Catskill gathering. They are nice and Iwould like to get one just for quads . I do think however that a roughbeveler (Belinger)and planing form is faster. Marty John Kenealy wrote: Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of purchasing a handmill. I'mgetting to the point where I can't keep up with orders and i'm looking is there anyone in Northern New England who has one and who would bewilling to let me see it in operation?(I'm in central Maine).TIA JohnK --------------09A2D627352E56325D86DC3B I have seen one in action at the Catskill gathering. They are nice andI would like to get one just for quads . I do think however that a roughbeveler (Belinger)and planing form is faster. MartyJohn Kenealy wrote: Hi where I can't keep up with orders and i'm looking for a way to speed upmy operation.What is thegeneral conscensus and is there anyone in Northern New England who hasone and who would be willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm in central K --------------09A2D627352E56325D86DC3B-- from mschaffer@mindspring.com Tue Dec 18 05:16:02 2001 fBIBG1t09976 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:16:01 - helo=004314280) id 16GIE4-0008WH-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:16:00 -0500 Subject: Bob Venneri--please buzz me back. Sorry guys for the bandwidth, but at least it is related ! (G)Mike Sorry guys for the bandwidth, but at = Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 18 05:49:03 2001 fBIBn1t10598 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:49:01 - Subject: More than you need to know about ink OK, with the below link will solve ALL your problems EXCEPT what the ingredients are and where you get them from.Anybody know where I can get logwood from? http://www.clt.astate.edu/elind/oldinkrecipes.htm Take a look and good luck. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Tue Dec 18 07:33:15 2001 fBIDXEt11586 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:33:14 - for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:33:12 - Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink Oy Vey....... mark At 07:54 PM 12/18/2001 +0800, you wrote: OK, with the below link will solve ALL your problems EXCEPT what the ingredients are and where you get them from.Anybody know where I can get logwood from? http://www.clt.astate.edu/elind/oldinkrecipes.htm Take a look and good luck. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Dec 18 08:35:38 2001 fBIEZbt13831 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:35:37 - GAA09976; IAA20402; fBIEZUZ12001; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:35:22 -0800 fbcwin@3g.quik.com,"RodMakers List (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Bench Planes continued you hold it in the air upside down, sighting down the bottom looking at theblade, and either tap the front end or aft end depending if you want theblade to go in or out. Finger planes are adjusted the same way. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Bench Planes continued I've read this before but I don't get just how you do this with either kindof plane. Are you just holding the plane in your hand and just tapping it,or is it held down against a surface? BK -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bench Planes continued Tony, Tapping the body of the plane with a small wooden or plastic mallet isnot abad method at all for moving the iron in Stanley-type block planes athousandth ortwo either direction. If I find that I want to move things a little withoutchanging my settings, I just give the plane a little whack with the plastichandleof a good sized screwdriver.One of the few tricks John Bradford taught me. Harry Tony Young wrote: One other hassle is the iron adjustment is done by tapping the *plane* NOTthe iron with a small hammer. You tap the fron to make the iron slip downmore and visa versa.You get the hang of it pretty quick and it's actually not too bad BUT it'snot hi tech enough for most people. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Dec 18 08:39:30 2001 fBIEdTt14160 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:39:29 -0600 GAA13134; GAA17946; fBIEdYZ17387; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:39:25 -0800 Rodmakers discussion group Subject: =?iso-8859- 1?Q?RE=3A_re=2E=3A_dusty_MC=B4s?= fBIEdUt14161 I guess some one is going to have to get a group order going, make minemidnight blue with leather saddle bags. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: re.: dusty MC's Yeah, I saw where this was heading, too. First it's fly fishing, then it'srodmaking, now I'll have to have a Harley just so I can go fly fishing withthe rods I make. What's next? Just what I need -- another expensive hobby. M-D Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans to acquire one. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it" rodmaking tool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;-)))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 18 08:43:40 2001 fBIEhdt14586 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:43:39 - helo=default) id 16GLT0-0004HN-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:43:39 -0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_re.:_dusty_MC=B4s?= Or vibrate itself apart. M-D Not if it is an AMF Harley, it would break every third stripA.J. From: Ralph MacKenzie Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans toacquireone. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it"rodmakingtool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;- )))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rodswithout! Season's Greetings! mac from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Dec 18 08:52:28 2001 fBIEqSt15211 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:52:28 -0600 id ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:45:53 -0500 id Y2QPVCWY; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:45:47 -0500 Rodmakers discussion group Subject: Re: re.: dusty =?iso-8859-1?Q?MC=B4s?= Oh, but I know where you can get the leather goodies cheap! "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: I guess some one is going to have to get a group order going, make minemidnight blue with leather saddle bags. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: Re: re.: dusty MC's Yeah, I saw where this was heading, too. First it's fly fishing, then it'srodmaking, now I'll have to have a Harley just so I can go fly fishing withthe rods I make. What's next? Just what I need -- another expensive hobby. M-D From: "Ralph MacKenzie" Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans to acquire one. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it" rodmaking tool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;-)))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 18 08:55:16 2001 Received: frommaynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net up.ipa.net ([209.128.150.189] helo=default) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:55:10 -0500 Message- ID:From: "Jojo DeLancier" References: Subject: Re: Handmills Date: Tue, 18 Dec jojo@ipa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part disagree. A rough beveler and the Morgan Hand Mill is at least 4 = timesfaster than a rough beveler and planing form, including the set up = time forthe Hand Mill, which takes longer due to changing the anvils, = but which timeis probably offset by the need to sharpen the plane = irons. M-D From: Marty nice and = I would like to get one just for quads . I do think however that a getting to the point where I can't keep up with orders and i'm = looking for away to speed up my operation.What is the general = conscensus and is thereanyone in Northern New England who has one and = who would be willing to letme see it in operation?(I'm in central = Maine).TIA John K ------ I must disagree. A K ------ 18 09:08:23 2001 Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net 16GLqv-0001I7-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 200110:08:22 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Jojo DeLancier" References:Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_re.:_dusty_MC=B4s?= 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I want a Fat Boy! I want a FatBoy! M-D From: "Coffey, Patrick W" I guess some one is going to have to get a group order going, make minemidnight blue with leather saddle bags. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: Re: re.: dusty MC's Yeah, I saw where this was heading, too. First it's fly fishing, then it'srodmaking, now I'll have to have a Harley just so I can go fly fishing with the rods I make. What's next? Just what I need -- another expensive hobby. M-D From: "Ralph MacKenzie" Hey guys, I can see where this is all leading.......I don't have a motorcycle, new, old, or otherwise, and had no plans to acquire one. However, it seems inevitable that the next "can't do without it" rodmaking tool will be the Harley powered do-all beveler and super-strip mill. Man, can it put out the strips! ;-)))Then, I'll have no choice - I'll have to have one. Can't make rods without! Season's Greetings! mac from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Dec 18 09:19:13 2001 fBIFJDt16953 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:19:13 - ([209.178.135.15] helo=g2t8c9) id 16GM1Q-00062U-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:19:12 -0800 Subject: Beveler plans your welcome Thank you for all of your "Thanks". I have sent about 100 plans out and willsay "Your Welcome" here on the list.If anyone has question please let me know. For those of you who sentquestions with your request please send them again. Adam Vigil from thogan@rochester.rr.com Tue Dec 18 09:31:15 2001 fBIFVEt17559 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:31:14 - fBIFVCq14581 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:31:12 - Subject: Cork Drilling How does everyone drill a hole to accept the reel seat spacer and =hardware?I can't do it "clean enough".ThanksTaylor How does everyone drill a hole to = seat spacer and hardware?I can't do it "clean =enough".ThanksTaylor from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Dec 18 09:31:42 2001 fBIFVft17604 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:31:41 - ;Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:31:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Beveler plans your welcome It would be nice if we could find a router bit with a 60Ÿ profile in theside. Anyone know of any?Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Beveler plans your welcome Thank you for all of your "Thanks". I have sent about 100 plans out and willsay "Your Welcome" here on the list.Adam Vigil from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 18 09:48:42 2001 fBIFmft18896 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:48:41 - (authenticated) Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:48:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Cork Drilling --------------11D4EF29B17FF0D8531FC6DC taylor hogan wrote: How does everyone drill a hole to accept the reel seatspacer and hardware?I can't do it "clean enough". Taylor, The very best way I've found involves using the lathe.Fix a very nice cork ring in the three jaw chuck. In ajacobs chuck in the tail stock, mount an old- fashioned spadebit for cutting wood. I use a 3/4" spade bit and it fitsREC uplocking stuff almost perfectly. Slowly bore the hole,and it'll come out clean as a whistle. If you have a pocketed ring, I'd suggest drilling thehole round, then forcing the ring over the pocket. Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------11D4EF29B17FF0D8531FC6DC taylor hogan wrote:How doeseveryonedrill a hole to accept the reel seat spacer andhardware?Ican't do it "clean enough". Taylor, Slowly bore the hole, and it'll come out clean as a whistle. the hole round, then forcing the ring over the pocket. --Harry Boyd --------------11D4EF29B17FF0D8531FC6DC-- from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Dec 18 09:49:03 2001 fBIFn1t18922 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:49:01 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:45:06 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:48:52 -0700 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Cork Drilling FILETIME=[F637D900:01C187DA] fBIFn3t18926 Taylor' I drill a small 1/8" pilot hole first. I then chuck up a rattail file and feed aring ,or the whole grip, by hand over the turning file. It cuts very smooth andif you start feeding the file in from the back of the grip you can takeadvantage of the taper at the tip of the file as it protrudes from the frontof the grip. This will form a tight smooth fit at the winding check. Go slowwith an in and out motion........and think about baseball. Jim "taylor hogan" 12/18/01 08:29AM >>> How does everyone drill a hole to accept the reel seat spacer and hardware?I can't do it "clean enough".ThanksTaylor from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Dec 18 09:49:18 2001 fBIFnHt18936 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:49:17 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:49:03 -0500 "Adam Vigil" , Subject: Re: Beveler plans your welcome FILETIME=[84D03630:01C187DB] fBIFnIt18937 http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=30175&category=1,33084,42917&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID= At 07:32 AM 12/18/2001 -0800, Don Schneider wrote: It would be nice if we could find a router bit with a 60Ÿ profile in theside. Anyone know of any?Don----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:16 AMSubject: Beveler plans your welcome Thank you for all of your "Thanks". I have sent about 100 plans out and willsay "Your Welcome" here on the list.Adam Vigil from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Dec 18 09:58:31 2001 fBIFwVt20020 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:58:31 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:54:36 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:58:22 -0700 "thogan@rochester.rr.com" ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Cork Drilling FILETIME=[4A21D290:01C187DC] fBIFwVt20023 Taylor,I mis read your post. I have the flu. I use the sharpened end of a pipe to cutthe hole for the seat hardware. I think! "James Harris" 12/18/01 08:48AM >>> Taylor'I drill a small 1/8" pilot hole first. I then chuck up a rattail file and feed aring ,or the whole grip, by hand over the turning file. It cuts very smooth andif you start feeding the file in from the back of the grip you can takeadvantage of the taper at the tip of the file as it protrudes from the frontof the grip. This will form a tight smooth fit at the winding check. Go slowwith an in and out motion........and think about baseball. Jim "taylor hogan" 12/18/01 08:29AM >>> How does everyone drill a hole to accept the reel seat spacer and hardware?I can't do it "clean enough".ThanksTaylor from rkrees@mcn.net Tue Dec 18 10:08:38 2001 fBIG8bt20650 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:08:37 - helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16GMn8-00028e-00; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:08:30 -0800 "Adam Vigil" , Subject: Re: Beveler plans your welcome Amana Carbide Tipped Router Bit Part # 45705 1/2 dia. 1/4 shk.Ask your local hardware man from Grnmtrds@aol.com Tue Dec 18 10:18:24 2001 fBIGINt21488 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:18:23 - for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:18:08 - Subject: happy holidays Just a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone. Keep the great list going and thanks to everyone for all of the help and good times from 2001. Hope it is better in 2002 but I don't know if you guys can out do yourselves. Thanks,The Christman's---Jim and Nancy/Vermont from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Dec 18 10:27:21 2001 fBIGRKt22134 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:27:21 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Cork Drilling understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3091512438_98989 When I drill a recess in the cork for reel seat hoods and such on mygraphite rods, I start by drawing the size I need (using the hood as atemplate) on the surface of the cork ring. I then use a gouge bit (I thinkthat is what it is called, but it resembles a small, bead shaped, drill bit)and a Dremel tool to rough out the hole. Then I use a sanding drum bit onthe Dremel to smooth it out. If the hood is contoured, I will then use theconical grinding stone with the Dremel to shape the contour. I always leavethe hole a little on the small side. The nice thing about using the Dremel is that it works just as well with apre- formed grip and it only takes about 5 minutes.Jason On 12/18/01 8:29 AM, "taylor hogan" wrote: How does everyone drill a hole to accept the reel seat spacer andhardware?I can't do it "clean enough".ThanksTaylor --B_3091512438_98989 Re: Cork Drilling When I drill a recess in the cork for reel seathoods =and such on my graphite rods, I start by drawing the size I need (using the = goug=e bit (I think that is what it is called, but it resembles a small, bead sha= contou=red, I will then use the conical grinding stone with the Dremel to shape the= The nice thing about using the Dremel is that it works just as well with a = Jason On 12/18/01 8:29 AM, "taylor hogan"<thogan@rochester.rr.com&g=t; wrote: How doeseveryone dril=l a hole to accept the reel seat spacer and hardware?I can't do it "clean enough".ThanksTaylor --B_3091512438_98989-- from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 18 10:31:25 2001 fBIGVPt22495 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:31:25 -0600 helo=default) id 16GN9I-0000r6-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:31:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Beveler plans your welcome Yep. http://www.toolstoday.com/cgi- bin/profilesearch.pl?MoreInfo_Router%20Bits_Variable%20Double%20Chamfer%20Assembly_49730 M-D It would be nice if we could find a router bit with a 60Ÿ profile in theside. Anyone know of any?Don From: "Adam Vigil" Thank you for all of your "Thanks". I have sent about 100 plans out and will say "Your Welcome" here on the list.Adam Vigil from dryfly@erols.com Tue Dec 18 10:40:38 2001 fBIGebt23171 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:40:37 - ([208.58.202.209] helo=erols.com) id 16GNIC-0000h8-00; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:40:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Cork Drilling Like Harry I use my lathe and mount the ring in the three jaw chuck butrather that use a bit I use a 3/4" grinding wheel in the tail stock. Igo at it slow and everyone I've ever done comes out perfect. It alsofits the large REC uplocking seat perfectly. The grinding wheel I use isthe same one I use in the lathe to grind the feet of guides (it has asmall 2" post to mount in a lathe or drill). ring and using a second ring I applied pressure on the hood until itleft an impression in the cork. I then used a rat tail file and Clemenscork reamers until I had the proper size hole reamed out. My successrate was very high but not perfect. Bob from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Tue Dec 18 10:48:47 2001 fBIGmkt23847 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:48:46 - Subject: Re: Beveler plans your welcome Don.Have a local Machine shop grind a 60deg. angle with a diamond wheel.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Beveler plans your welcome It would be nice if we could find a router bit with a 60Ÿ profile in theside. Anyone know of any?Don----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:16 AMSubject: Beveler plans your welcome Thank you for all of your "Thanks". I have sent about 100 plans out and will say "Your Welcome" here on the list.Adam Vigil from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 18 11:15:25 2001 fBIHFOt25318 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:15:24 - with HTTP id 7326563; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:15:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Cork Drilling I chuck up a holder in the headstock and drill the hole witha piece of tubing held in the tailstock. Using a piece oftubing results in a near perfect hole. I finish the pocketwith a small, fine cutter and a pencil grinder. I leave thepocket a tiny bit undersize and force the hood in, itusually results in a nice clean fit. Larry Blan On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:29:23 -0500"taylor hogan" wrote: How does everyone drill a hole to accept the reel seatspacer and hardware?I can't do it "clean enough".Thanks from caneman@clnk.com Tue Dec 18 11:22:17 2001 fBIHMGt25840 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:22:16 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Cork Drilling TaylorI use a piece of tubing that's been sharpened to bore the holes. =Perfect circle every time, to tearout. BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Cork Drilling How does everyone drill a hole to accept the reel seat spacer and =hardware?I can't do it "clean enough".ThanksTaylor TaylorI use a piece of tubing that's been sharpened to = BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- hogan Sent: Tuesday, December 18, = AMSubject: Cork Drilling How does everyone drill a hole to = seat spacer and hardware?I can't do it "clean =enough".ThanksTaylor from CALucker@aol.com Tue Dec 18 11:59:49 2001 fBIHxmt27498 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:59:48 - Subject: Re: Beveler plans your welcome rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu homes-sold@attbi.com writes: It would be nice if we could find a router bit with a 60=B0 profile in theside. Anyone know of any?Don Amana or Ammana makes them, or at least made them. I bought a set aboutten= carbide tip cutters. Mount the pairs one way and you get 90's for quads. because the arbor the set comes with is designed to put the cutters as as 1 1/2 inches apart. A shorter arbor will give you less weight outside th= collet and less wobble.All that being said, I gave my cutters to Per Brandin. I simply did not lik= Cable model 690. Maybe the finer routers are much better. But when Icould= buy an old surface grinder for the cost of a fancy router, why not go the surface grinder or other mill with a one inch shaft? In a message dated12/18/=01 7:34:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@attbi.com writes: It would be nice if wecoul=d find a router bit with a 60=B0 profile in theside. Anyone know of any?Don t= 90'= or=der a shorter arbor because the arbor the set comes with is designed to y=ou less weight outside the collet and less wobble. better= router, why not go with the surface grinder or other mill with a one inch sh=aft? from geert.poorteman@undp.org Tue Dec 18 12:21:31 2001 fBIILUt28390 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:21:30 -0600 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:20:04 -0500 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:05:26 +0200 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions First, I am going to try and get by without a binder. I'd of course ratheruse one, but time and money are running short. I am gluing with Titebond II.Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on binding by hand? Am I doomingmyself to a crooked rod? Not at all! I bind by hand all the time. My method is maybe a bit archaic, butit works. Before binding I put a long strip of masking tape on my planingforms,and with my finger, push it in the groove. Why? Later! I put the spool of binding thread on the floor and keep a tension on it with my(bare) foot. I wear surgical gloves and just turn the rod with my fingers,whilekeeping a reasonable tension on the thread with my foot. I start with thethickend and move to the fine end and back. I then roll the blank under my twohandson the floor, and usually it is almost perfectly straight. I little bending byhand sometimes, but the rolling is easyer. I think rolling under a board wouldbe even better... Check if there is a twist in the blank and correct. When itlooks straight, I put the blank in the groove of the forms, protected by thetape, and secure the blank with little pieces of tape to keep it in the groveunder a bit of pressure. I use PU glue, and after an hour or so (i am veryimpatient!!!) you can remove it. Leave ste string on for another couple ofhours. Comes out so straight I hardly ever straighten. Geert from geert.poorteman@undp.org Tue Dec 18 12:21:32 2001 fBIILUt28391 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:21:30 -0600 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:20:08 -0500 Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:18:41 +0200 Subject: Re: First Rod Questions I used PU for my first rod and had enough time. Still use it!! Jojo DeLancier a Äcrit: I'd be more inclined to suggest a polyurethane glue, i.e, Gorilla Glue,ProBond II, etc. What do some of you guys who use this think? Does hehaveenough working time to bind and straighten, considering this is his firstrod? I don't think the TiteBond, nor the resorcinol will give you enoughtime, at all. M-D From: "Mike Mihalas" Thanks to everyone for their help on my questions! I am going to go tonight to get the parts to build a binder on Tony Miller's plans. A couple offollow-up questions: Comments about the working time and heat straigtening problems ofTitebondII got me thinking I might look into using Resourcinol instead -- does ithave to be measured by weight? This would mean another purchase(scales) for me and the budget is tight. Does anyone have a way or formula so I canmixresourcinol by volume somehow? Thanks Again, Mike Mihalas from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Tue Dec 18 12:25:00 2001 fBIIOxt28782 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:24:59 - 18 Dec 2001 10:24:55 PST Subject: Nickel silver plate Does anyone know of a sourse for nickel silver seetstock in very thin dimensions? TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from jerryy@webtv.net Tue Dec 18 12:42:42 2001 fBIIgft29618 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:42:41 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:42:41 - 2112.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id KAA08214; ETAtAhQqdXqQLgVbM8PZCxvfh4X+tR1IigIVAMUViq/pnO2XyUdydiji70iSNg6u Subject: Reel Seats The recent thread on reel seats made me think to do what I have beenmeaning to do for a long time. Mave measured the reel feet of the 37reels that I currently use. Lots of pre-war Pfleugars but we all areaware of those problems. What I found was the slope on the foot of allreels were pretty much the same. Except for a bunch of old Hardys withthe club feet. Width and length of the feet ddn't vary all that muchbut what really varied was the thickness of the reel foot. Heaviest werethe Ables and Tetons. Even thicker than some of the cast reels that Iown, like Orvis, Scientific,etc. No wonder they have been a problemfitting to some of the smaller bamboo. Hence the need for largerthreaded hardware.Oh well, back to the basement. Jerry from jerryy@webtv.net Tue Dec 18 12:51:47 2001 fBIIpkt00312 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:51:46 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2112.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id KAA08450; ETAtAhRKdrztCsB21VKtroaZOEQgqtWH2wIVAJGQzaPxNsOn9Ltv3GkpUpH2etaO Subject: Re: Nickel silver plate I buy my N/S sheet from Sheffield Knifemakers Supply 1-800-874-7007 orwww.sheffieldsupply.com Have sheet and plate from .020 to 1/2" thickNo interest - ya da, ya da, ya da Jerry Young from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 18 13:10:23 2001 fBIJAMt01648 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:10:22 - Subject: Re: Nickel silver plate rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Another good place is the local hobby shop that specializes in model making and such. You might also check Track of the Wolf in Minnesota for NS sheeting. I have bought thin sheet NS from them and sheet brass for making guns. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Another good place is have bought thin sheet NS from them and sheet brass for making guns. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 13:12:01 2001 fBIJC1t01865 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:12:01 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:11:55 -0800 Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:11:55 GMT Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink FILETIME=[DBC1D630:01C187F7] Logwood is available at university chemical dpts an is available from hobby stores that sell chemistry sets(might have to order it though). It fortunately has no application for any of the undesirable elements.A.J. From: Tony Young CC: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: More than you need to know about inkDate: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:54:32 +0800 OK, with the below link will solve ALL your problems EXCEPT what theingredients are and where you get them from.Anybody know where I can get logwood from? http://www.clt.astate.edu/elind/oldinkrecipes.htm Take a look and good luck. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 18 13:55:26 2001 fBIJtOt10773 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:55:24 - Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink Thanks AJ, weird question I know but I knew somebody would know theanswer. Tony At 07:11 PM 12/18/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: Logwood is available at university chemical dpts an is available from hobby stores that sell chemistry sets(might have to order it though). It fortunately has no application for any of the undesirable elements.A.J. From: Tony Young CC: RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: More than you need to know about inkDate: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:54:32 +0800 OK, with the below link will solve ALL your problems EXCEPT what theingredients are and where you get them from.Anybody know where I can get logwood from? http://www.clt.astate.edu/elind/oldinkrecipes.htm Take a look and good luck. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Dec 18 14:17:26 2001 fBIKHPt11945 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:17:25 - id ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:10:51 -0500 id Y2QPVC93; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:10:46 -0500 Subject: Tips Archive Just to let all of you know, there have been a bunch of tips added tothe tips archive. I've also added the drawing of Adam Vigil's Bevelerunder the "Contraptions" area of the site (as well as CarstenJorgensen's toggle clamp for planing). I've also added a search engine to the site. The site is currentlybeing spidered, so results may be a little interesting. I hope that itwill help those who are looking for a specific subject find it quicker. Keep the tips coming!-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from jojo@ipa.net Tue Dec 18 14:22:25 2001 Received: from fBIKMOt12320 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16GQkm-0005lG-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue,18 Dec 2001 15:22:21 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Jojo DeLancier" Subject: Merry Christmas Date: Tue, 18 Dec MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 jojo@ipa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN List, Will be gone "Merry Christmas". I wish you all the best this holiday season. You're a greatbunch of people -- for a bunch of rodmakers. ;o) See ya' when I return. M-D from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Dec 18 14:26:16 2001 Received: from fBIKQFt12703 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 ajthramer@hotmail.com, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: More Message-ID: stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Isn'tlogwood what trappers use to dye their traps? If Tony were in the States hecould pop down to the drugstore and pick up this month's Fur-Fish- Game.Always used to have lots of ads for logwood crystals, by the pound. Alwaysan interesting read, too. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better stetzer@uwm.edu than awaterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer."Henry Van Dyke, Univ of Wisconsin- Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tony Young wrote: Thanks AJ, weird question I know but I knew somebody would know theanswer. Tony At 07:11 PM 12/18/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: Logwood is available at university chemical dpts an is available from hobby stores that sell chemistry sets(might have to order it though). It fortunately has no application for any of the undesirable elements.A.J. from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Tue Dec 18 15:33:31 2001 fBILXUt17588 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:33:31 - fBILXMj14872 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:33:22 - Subject: Re: worthless logwood "information" wrote: Isn't logwood what trappers use to dye their traps? At 07:11 PM 12/18/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: Logwood is available at university chemical dpts an is available from hobby stores that sell chemistry sets(might have to order it though). It fortunately has no application for any of the undesirable elements.A.J. We undesirable elements recognize "logwood" as "Haematoxylin campechianum" a leguminous tree common/present in most of South America. Chips of the tree are soaked in water to prepare an dye extract which can be dehydrated, and redissolved in various solutions. These are used to stain thin sections of biological specimens for light microscopy. After I'm done growing my own bamboo, alloying my own nickel silver and harvesting silk from my own silk worms (thanks, George Parker Holden), I'm going to get busy making my own ink. Your rods just aren't custom when you buy raw materials from bulk suppliers, you know. I'm signing off for a few days now to go south and harvest some logwood. Maybe while I'm there I'll find some ore to smelt to make own plane irons.-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from pohl@earthlink.net Tue Dec 18 15:46:35 2001 fBILkYt18396 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:46:34 - helo=pohl) id 16GS4H-0004HJ-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:46:33 -0800 Subject: TiCH vs Chrome guides I'm getting ready to place an order for guides and i have a couple ofquestions before i do. which guides will hold up better?I've never seen the color of the TiCH, they say they're gunmetal gray. isthat blued? i'm going to use a seat with silver hardware, which guides willlook best with this seat.Thanks, Mark from Dennishigham@cs.com Tue Dec 18 15:58:14 2001 fBILwEt19118 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:58:14 - Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Jim,I'll be there all week helping Ralph too....between Bob N. & me we can keep you supplied with cane rods but I may have to ride blindfolded on the back of your cycle holding the rods in my teeth to go fishing! Hmmn... now where to put the beer?? Bob,Are you sure we can't just take a limo to Spanish Creek? Godfrey our driver could have the beer cold and the pate & smoked salmon ready for us whenwe're thru?? Mery Christmas Dennis from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 16:25:00 2001 fBIMP0t20326 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:25:00 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:24:54 -0800 Subject: Re: 60 degree router bit FILETIME=[D1593D80:01C18812] Woodcraft carries one, they call it a signmaker's bit. Jeff from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 16:45:55 2001 fBIMjtt21294 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:45:55 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:45:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Cork Drilling FILETIME=[BD666660:01C18815] If you have a drill press, try this: Take a block of wood about 1 1/2 inches thick and drill a 1 1/4 inch =hole in it that is 1/2 inch deep. Use a woodboring bit, and you will end =up with a hole that is the exact size and shape of a standard cork ring. =the point of your bit will make a smaller hole in the exact center that = When you want to drill, put in a smaller woodboring bit that gives you =the correct size hole for your reel seat. With everything off, use the =point on your bit and the small hole to line up the bit and block, then =clamp the block in place. Raise your bit, drop in the cork ring, and =drill it out slowly. I came up with this in desperation after trashing the ring that came =with a "store-bought" reel seat. But it worked. You may have to hold the =ring in place with a stick to keep it from spinning. Jeff If you have a drill press, try =this: Take a block of wood about 1 1/2inches = drill a 1 1/4 inch hole in it that is 1/2 inch deep. Use a woodboring = you will end up with a hole that is the exact size and shape of a = ring. the point of your bit will make a smaller hole in the exact center = extends into the wood block. When you want to drill, put in a = bit that gives you the correct size hole for your reel seat. With = off, use the point on your bit and the small hole to line up the bit and = then clamp the block in place. Raise your bit, drop in the cork ring, = it out slowly. I came up with this in desperation = the ring that came with a "store-bought" reel seat. But it worked. You = to hold the ring in place with a stick to keep it from =spinning. Jeff from "Marty D. aka \"none" Tue Dec 18 17:08:03 2001 fBIN82t22286 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:08:02 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4176. . Clean. Processed in 1.538006 secs); 18 Dec 200122:53:59 -0000 Subject: Re: Handmills --------------7661C49416B3A22534088D11 I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2hours). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes, run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means youwould have to split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (ifthat's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see thatmyself. Marty Jojo DeLancier wrote: I must disagree. A rough beveler and the Morgan Hand Mill is at least4 times faster than a rough beveler and planing form, including theset up time for the Hand Mill, which takes longer due to changing theanvils, but which time is probably offset by the need to sharpen theplane irons. M-D From: Marty D. aka "noneI have seen one in action at the Catskill gathering. Theyare nice and I would like to get one just for quads . I dothink however that a rough beveler (Belinger)and planingform is faster. Marty John Kenealy wrote: Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of purchasing ahandmill. I'm getting to the point where I can't keep upwith orders and i'm looking for a way to speed up myoperation.What is the general conscensus and is thereanyone in Northern New England who has one and who wouldbe willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm in centralMaine).TIA John K --------------7661C49416B3A22534088D11 hours). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes, run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means youwould have to split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (ifthat's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see that myself.MartyJojo DeLancier wrote: must disagree. A rough beveler and the Morgan Hand Mill is at least 4 timesfaster than a rough beveler and planing form, including the set up time time is probably offset by the need to sharpen the plane From:Marty D. aka"none and I would like to get one just for quads . I do think however that arough beveler (Belinger)and planing form is faster. MartyJohn Kenealy wrote: HiAll, I've been toying with I can't keep up with orders and i'm looking for a way to speed up myoperation.Whatis the general conscensus and is there anyone in Northern New England whohas one and who would be willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm incentral Maine).TIA JohnK --------------7661C49416B3A22534088D11-- from cw@vanion.com Tue Dec 18 17:17:32 2001 fBINHVt22852 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:17:31 - for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:22:18 - Subject: 60 degree bits www.mlcswoodworking.com has 60* signmaking bits , #5422,1/2"dia, =3/4"carbide height, 1/4" shank,$14.00, free shipping. =#7722-1/2"shank- $14. I tried them, and went back to a straight flute, = Chad www.mlcswoodworking.com has = signmaking bits , #5422,1/2"dia, 3/4"carbide height, 1/4"= shank,$14.00, free shipping. #7722-1/2"shank-$14. I tried them, and = back to a straight flute, and a 30* bed. Chad from bob@downandacross.com Tue Dec 18 17:20:46 2001 fBINKjt23111 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:20:45 - Subject: RE: Handmills Marty:You lost me on that one. Why only 1.25 hours?Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:03 PM Subject: Re: Handmills I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2 hours).I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes , run itthru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means you would haveto split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (if that's what youcall it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see that myself. MartyJojo DeLancier wrote: I must disagree. A rough beveler and the Morgan Hand Mill is at least 4times faster than a rough beveler and planing form, including the set uptime for the Hand Mill, which takes longer due to changing the anvils, butwhich time is probably offset by the need to sharpen the plane irons. M-DFrom: Marty D. aka "noneI have seen one in action at the Catskill gathering. They are niceand I would like to get one just for quads . I do think however that a roughbeveler (Belinger)and planing form is faster. MartyJohn Kenealy wrote: Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of purchasing a handmill.I'm getting to the point where I can't keep up with orders and i'm looking there anyone in Northern New England who has one and who would be willing tolet me see it in operation?(I'm in central Maine).TIA John K Marty: on that one. Why only 1.25 hours? Bob "noneSent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:03 HandmillsI have 15 plane irons which I sharpen = strips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 = That means you would have to split strips, press nodes, set up the = plane (if that's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to = disagree. A rough beveler and the Morgan Hand Mill is at least 4 = faster than a rough beveler and planing form, including the set up = the Hand Mill, which takes longer due to changing the anvils, but = Marty= They are nice and I would like to get one just for quads . I do = however that a rough beveler (Belinger)and planing form is faster. = Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of = orders and i'm looking for a way to speed up my operation.What = general conscensus and is there anyone in Northern New England = one and who would be willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm = =K from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Tue Dec 18 17:20:57 2001 fBINKst23173 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:20:55 - fBIMWWf18546; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:32:32 -0300 Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink Hola a todos. Tony, si yo no entendi mal usted quire la formula de la tintacampeche. Yo tengo un libro antiguo, que se llama industrias explicadas. enuna parte figura la formula de esta tinta. Estas tintas tienen como base elPalo azul, o campeche. que se puede combinar con el bicromato de calcio, osino en la forma siguiente. 1300 gr. de agua destilada - 300 gr. palocampeche - 200 gr nuez de agalla - 200 gr sulfato ferroso - 100 gr gomaarabiga - . La nues de agalla y el palo azul se cortan en trozos y setrituran. Se mesclan con los demas elementos y la goma arbiga disuelta. Sedeja estacionar durante unos dias en recipiente cerrado. Finalmente sefiltra quedando la tinta lista para ser usada. Yo espero que la traducciõnquede mas o menos clara. Seria interesante consultar con un Ingenieroquimico por los ingredientes. Yo los puedo conseguir sin problemas en unadrogeria. Espero haber sido de utilidad. Un saludo afectuoso a todos.Alberto ( La avispa)Hello to all. Tony, if I didn't understand bad you quire formulates it ofthe ink logwood. I have an old book that he/she calls himself explainedindustries. in a part it figures it it formulates of this ink. These inkshave like base the blue Stick, or logwood. that it can combine with thebichromate of calcium, otherwise in the following form. 1300 gr. ofdistilled water - 300 gr. stick logwood - 200 gr gill nut - 200 gr ferroussulfate - 100 gr Arabic rubber -. The gill nues and the blue stick intersectin pieces and they are crushed. You mesclan with the other elements and therubber dissolved arbiga. It is allowed to park during some days in closedrecipient. Finally he/she filters being the clever ink to be used. I hopethe translation is but or less clear. Serious interesting to consult with achemical Engineer for the ingredients. I can get them without problems in adrogeria. I wait to have been of utility. An affectionate greeting to all.Alberto (The wasp)joseus@cybertech.com.arwww.geocities.com/albertoyjoseusman----- Original Message ----- Subject: More than you need to know about ink OK, with the below link will solve ALL your problems EXCEPT what theingredients are and where you get them from.Anybody know where I can get logwood from? http://www.clt.astate.edu/elind/oldinkrecipes.htm Take a look and good luck. Tony /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Dec 18 18:09:00 2001 fBJ08xt24631 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:08:59 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Handmills understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3091540134_446231 I have to say, Marty, that this is something I would love to see! Mostpeople talk about 30-60 hours on a split cane rod. As I see it, all youwill have left is gluing, binding, straightening, and finishing. Aboutanother 5 to 10 hours of work, depending on how quickly you can finish it.Do you really finish a rod in 10 to 15 hours? How??? If you left 3 hoursof the five for splitting, that would mean you can taper a strip in 10minutes (not counting beveling). What kind of mill do you use? Do you hav=eto adjust it during beveling? When do you heat treat? I hope you don=B9tmind the questions, but I haven=B9t yet built a rod, and I would love to lear=nhow to do this so quickly! On the topic of the hand mill, there was one at the FFF Internationalconclave several years ago when it was at Idaho Falls. They were there aspart of the bamboo rod symposium that Ralph organized. They had a fellowdoing an 18 strip rod. I think it took him 6 hours to bevel and taper thestrips. Add to that the time it takes to split, press the nodes and heattreat, and there you go. Jason On 12/18/01 4:03 PM, "Marty D. aka "none" wrote: I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2 hours).= I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes , run it t= hru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means you would have to = split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (if that's what you call = it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see that myself. Marty --B_3091540134_446231 Re: Handmills I have to say, Marty, that this is something Iwould l= &n=bsp;As I see it, all you will have left is gluing, binding, straightening, a= qu= d mean you can taper a strip in 10 minutes (not counting beveling). question=s, but I haven’t yet built a rod, and I would love to learn how to do =this so quickly! On the topic of the hand mill, there was one at the FFF International concl= p= fello= and heat treat, and there you go. Jason On 12/18/01 4:03 PM, "Marty D. aka "none"<horsesho@ptd.n= I have 15 plane ironswhich I sharp= I can split strips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 bla=nk in 5 hours. That means you would have to split strips, press nodes, set u=p the TMHM, and plane (if that's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I woul=d have to see that myself. Marty --B_3091540134_446231-- from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Dec 18 18:22:55 2001 fBJ0Mst25255 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:22:54 - Subject: Drilling Cork To the List,If you are lucky enough to acquire one of the old-fashioned (I guess) =multi-segmented car antennas you have a whole bunch of tubes of various =diameters. Just sharpen one end and drill away, but slowly. Bill To the List, the old-fashioned (I guess) multi-segmented car antennas you have a = from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Dec 18 18:56:42 2001 fBJ0uft25982 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:56:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Harleys and Such In a message dated 12/17/01 4:20:31 PM Central Standard Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: Is this the Hell's Anglers listserve? >> Um, I often take my classic Honda 750 SOHC flyfishing. I have a rod case that straps to the rear rack, and my other "fishing stuff" fits neatly in the tailbox. Come to think of it, I can also take my Mountain bike! Easier than walking, faster too, not as noisy as the 750! mark from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Dec 18 19:15:01 2001 fBJ1F0t26474 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:15:00 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Handmills I've kept detailed time records of each step in my rod making. I've =done this several times as a cross check so that I can determine what is =a reasonable selling price. It takes me 35 hours start to finish if =there are no screw-ups. This time doesn't include break time or just =plain sitting and admiring my work. I rough plane with an electric =plane, do a secondary roughing to about .020" oversize with the #4 1/2 =Bailley, then finish plane with a #9 1/2 which has a highspeed steel =blade. I've kept detailed time records of each= plane, do a secondary roughing to about .020" oversize with the #4 1/2 = blade. from Dkenney94@cs.com Tue Dec 18 19:16:07 2001 fBJ1G7t26596 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:16:07 - for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:16:04 - Subject: Re: Handmills On 12/18/01 4:03 PM, "Marty D. aka "none" wrote: I woI have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2 hours). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. This I would like to see!!!! have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2 hours). I onlyuse 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill,and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. This I would like to see!!!! from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Tue Dec 18 19:23:20 2001 fBJ1N4t27072 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:23:04 - 0000 sender ) Subject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like to see a bit witha =60 degree notch in it, not a point. I thought I did a thorough job =checking the links posted so far, all I found was points.Bad ascii art:||_||_| |\ / - This part 60 degrees..../ \|__| Tom Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:14 PMSubject: 60 degree bits www.mlcswoodworking.com has 60* signmaking bits , #5422,1/2"dia, =3/4"carbide height, 1/4" shank,$14.00, free shipping. =#7722-1/2"shank- $14. I tried them, and went back to a straight flute, = Chad I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like = points.Bad ascii art: _||_ degrees.... |__| Tom ----- Original Message ----- chadwigham = Sent: Tuesday, December 18, = PMSubject: 60 degree bits www.mlcswoodworking.com = signmaking bits , #5422,1/2"dia, 3/4"carbide height, 1/4" = shipping. #7722-1/2"shank-$14. I tried them, and went back to a = flute, and a 30* bed. Chad from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Dec 18 19:32:04 2001 fBJ1W3t27544 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:32:03 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:31:58 -0800 Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:31:57 GMT Subject: Re: Handmills FILETIME=[F32B3C00:01C1882C] Marty: flame the culm, split the strips, then cut to length, straighten and flattenthe nodes, run through the Medved Beveller, bind the strips for heattreating, and then heat treat. That's before I ever even start to set up myplaning form. Most of my rods take more then 70 hours to complete. Jim Handmills about 2 ,press nodes means you and plane (if see that Mill is at least including the to changing the to sharpen the They planing a keep up my there who would central MSN Photos is the easiest way toshare and print your photos: ClickHere from bob@downandacross.com Tue Dec 18 19:32:36 2001 fBJ1WZt27641 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:32:35 - Subject: RE: 60 degree bits Tom:Recread the one from Chris Lucker. This is what he is describing, I believe.Made by Amana (or Ammana). Have not had time to source one.Bob-----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AusfeldSent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like to see a bit witha 60degree notch in it, not a point. I thought I did a thorough job checkingthe links posted so far, all I found was points.Bad ascii art:||_||_| |\ / - This part 60 degrees..../ \|__| Tom----- Original Message -----From: chad wigham Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:14 PMSubject: 60 degree bits www.mlcswoodworking.com has 60* signmaking bits , #5422,1/2"dia,3/4"carbide height, 1/4" shank,$14.00, free shipping. #7722-1/2"shank-$14. Itried them, and went back to a straight flute, and a 30* bed.Chad Tom: one from Chris Lucker. This is what he is describing, I believe. Made by = (or Ammana). Have not had time to source one.Bob AusfeldSent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:24 = bitsI'm not sure who started this post, but I would = points.Bad ascii art: _||_ degrees.... |__| Tom ----- Original Message ----- chad =wigham Sent: Tuesday, December 18, = PMSubject: 60 degree bits www.mlcswoodworking.com = signmaking bits , #5422,1/2"dia, 3/4"carbide height, 1/4" = shipping. #7722-1/2"shank-$14. I tried them, and went back to a = flute, and a 30* bed. Chad from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Dec 18 19:50:07 2001 fBJ1o7t28479 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:50:07 - Subject: Re: Handmills Make it 6 hours and I'll put a $1000 on Marty. Joe from bob@downandacross.com Tue Dec 18 20:04:39 2001 fBJ24ct28881 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:04:38 - Subject: RE: Handmills, $ on Marty Come on Joe, where would a full time rodmaker get that kinda money from?Just kidding, but I believe that it could be done as well. from splitting toplaning in 5-6 hours, using a roughing beveller, that is not far fetched.You just need to prepare and plan it out before hand, right?I would also like to add that many of the guys who can do this are notpumping out bad strips either. It is the kind of thing that comes withrepetition and hard work. A pro maker would have to be this prolific to stayalive (Or else charge dead guy prices).Best regards,Bob M. -----Original Message----- Eastkoyfly@aol.com Subject: Re: Handmills Make it 6 hours and I'll put a $1000 on Marty. Joe from bob@downandacross.com Tue Dec 18 20:07:04 2001 fBJ274t29111 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:07:04 - Subject: Amana Router Bits Amana's website is at:http://www.amanatool.com/ Bob M.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AusfeldSent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like to see a bit witha60 degree notch in it, not a point. I thought I did a thorough job checkingthe links posted so far, all I found was points.Bad ascii art:||_||_| |\ / - This part 60 degrees..../ \|__| Tom----- website is at:http://www.amanatool.com/ M. AusfeldSent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:24 = bitsI'm not sure who started this post, but I would = points.Bad ascii art: _||_ degrees.... |__| Tom from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Dec 18 20:10:07 2001 fBJ2A5t29314 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:10:05 - Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:13:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Nickel silver plate When building muzzle loading rifles in another life, I found NS sheet atDixie Gun Works in Union City TN. Good source for lots of other usefulstuff. blue fin wrote: Does anyone know of a sourse for nickel silver seetstock in very thin dimensions? TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from flyfish@gbronline.com Tue Dec 18 20:19:04 2001 fBJ2J3t29803 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:19:03 - 20:15:09 2001 -0600 Subject: Re: Scarry Sharp 3m also makes 8" adhesive sander disks in 600 grit that would probably workaswell as a vacuum Larry Blan wrote: Everything you ever wanted to know about the Scary Sharp system: http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM I ran across a site that showed how to use a vacuum holddown for thepaper,as opposed to gluing it too. Rather interesting idea. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu KyleDruey@aol.comSent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:24 PM Subject: Scarry Sharp Anyone using the Scarry Sharp method for sharpening blade irons?If so, whatdoes one need to know to make this method work successfully? Thanks, Kyle from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 18 21:09:47 2001 fBJ39lt00717 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:09:47 - for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:09:45 - Subject: RE: Scarry Sharp The intent of the vacuum was to eliminate *any* adhesive. I use a lot of 3MPSA abrasives, they will not pull cleanly off a surface (including glass)after they have been in place and used for a while. At that point, itrequires scrapers and solvents to remove the paper from the surface. Theauthor of the vacuum jig article wanted to do away with the solvent part. Itmakes for instant replacement too, just pop a piece down and turn the vacon. Interesting idea. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:19 PM Cc: KyleDruey@aol.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Scarry Sharp 3m also makes 8" adhesive sander disks in 600 grit that wouldprobably work aswell as a vacuum Larry Blan wrote: Everything you ever wanted to know about the Scary Sharp system: http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM I ran across a site that showed how to use a vacuum holddown as opposed to gluing it too. Rather interesting idea. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu KyleDruey@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:24 PM Subject: Scarry Sharp Anyone using the Scarry Sharp method for sharpening blade irons?If so, whatdoes one need to know to make this method work successfully? Thanks, Kyle from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 18 21:23:58 2001 fBJ3Nvt01760 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:23:57 - Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink I found mention of it and about a hundred other strange concoctions in a book for paint and varnish making. None of the varnishes were that exciting but there was a recipe for a waterproof agent for cloth as in canvass which called for logwood.I thought it was a drying agent which is how I came across that page of inks using logwood as a search word but as it's with inks where there is mention in the home page it's also in demand for Cival War uniform memorabilia, so I guess it's blue, grey ink seems useless somehow. Tony At 02:26 PM 12/18/01 -0600, Frank Stetzer wrote: Isn't logwood what trappers use to dye their traps? If Tony werein the States he could pop down to the drugstore and pick up thismonth's Fur-Fish- Game. Always used to have lots of ads for logwoodcrystals, by the pound. Always an interesting read, too.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tony Young wrote: Thanks AJ, weird question I know but I knew somebody would know theanswer. Tony At 07:11 PM 12/18/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: Logwood is available at university chemical dpts an is available fromhobby stores that sell chemistry sets(might have to order it though). Itfortunately has no application for any of the undesirable elements.A.J. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 18 21:25:40 2001 fBJ3Pct01924 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:25:38 - Subject: Re: worthless logwood "information" Way to go Grayson!!! I have plans for a Capola furnace if you need them. Tony We undesirable elements recognize "logwood" as"Haematoxylin campechianum" a leguminous treecommon/present in most of South America. Chips of the treeare soaked in water to prepare an dye extract which can bedehydrated, and redissolved in various solutions. Theseare used to stain thin sections of biological specimens forlight microscopy. After I'm done growing my own bamboo,alloying my own nickel silver and harvesting silk from myown silk worms (thanks, George Parker Holden), I'm going toget busy making my own ink. Your rods just aren't customwhen you buy raw materials from bulk suppliers, you know.I'm signing off for a few days now to go south and harvestsome logwood. Maybe while I'm there I'll find some ore tosmelt to make own plane irons.-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Dec 18 21:27:33 2001 fBJ3RUt02177 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:27:31 - Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink Thankyou Wasp. I never knew there were so many Alchimests on list [:-)] Tony Hello to all. Tony, if I didn't understand bad you quire formulates it of the ink logwood. I have an old book that he/she calls himself explainedindustries. in a part it figures it it formulates of this ink. These inkshave like base the blue Stick, or logwood. that it can combine with thebichromate of calcium, otherwise in the following form. 1300 gr. ofdistilled water - 300 gr. stick logwood - 200 gr gill nut - 200 gr ferroussulfate - 100 gr Arabic rubber -. The gill nues and the blue stick intersectin pieces and they are crushed. You mesclan with the other elements andtherubber dissolved arbiga. It is allowed to park during some days in closedrecipient. Finally he/she filters being the clever ink to be used. I hopethe translation is but or less clear. Serious interesting to consult with achemical Engineer for the ingredients. I can get them without problems in adrogeria. I wait to have been of utility. An affectionate greeting to all.Alberto (The wasp)joseus@cybertech.com.ar OK, with the below link will solve ALL your problems EXCEPT what theingredients are and where you get them from.Anybody know where I can get logwood from? http://www.clt.astate.edu/elind/oldinkrecipes.htm Take a look and good luck. Tony /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from CALucker@aol.com Tue Dec 18 21:27:47 2001 fBJ3Rkt02194 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:27:46 - Subject: Re: 60 degree bits I had the three wing carbide cutters from Amana a long time ago. The were mounted on an arbor that was long enough to accept perhaps an inch and ahalf of spacers. The cutters were paired to make 60's or 90's depending on how you paired the cutters. The cutters had no points to keep the weight closer to the arbor. I ordered a shorter arbor, and maybe one with a larger diameter for the collet too. I used the cutters on a Winston or Talbot type mill (one that had a template bar that traveled below the bed carrying the strip and raised the bed to make a taper. A cam does the same thing). Anyway, I did not use the mill very long because I could not ever be pleased with the runout on a router collet, I could not be pleased with having to take light cuts, and I did not like the noise of the router. I finally faced the fact that shapers were made to do the work that is too heavy for a router, and realized that most of the bamboo mills of yesteryear were more like shapers than routers. I went back to the type of mill my Grandfather made that has a one inch shaft and then on to a surface grinder based mill such as those Bob Summers and others have. This is especially attractive when you realize you can buy a stripped-down surface grinder (no auto feedor magnetic chuck) for about the price of a very good router. Long story short, I gave away my Amana cutters to Per Brandin about tenyears ago and have never looked back. By the way, I think Per is one of the best rod designers and builders out there, and one of the most pure casters Ihave ever seen. His rods even make it possible for me to cast further than my shadow.If you want a treat, try his staggered ferrule 8 1/2 foot tournement caster. Several tournament guys, such as John Napoli, have them.Build a router-based machine if you want, but I cannot listen to a router very long before I want to drive a sixteen penny nail through my skull. This being said, I do have a fluting machine that uses my Porter Cable 690 and a biscuit cutting bit that has been rounded.Chris Lucker from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Dec 18 22:48:53 2001 fBJ4mqt03829 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:48:52 - (authenticated) for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:48:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Handmills --------------BA7981302E0836E6A0D41DC0 Dkenney94@cs.com wrote: This I would like to see!!!! My money's on Marty, too. Planing is the fastpart. It's the stuff that comes after planingthat takes forever. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------BA7981302E0836E6A0D41DC0 Dkenney94@cs.com wrote: This I wouldlike to see!!!! It's the stuff that comes after planing that takes forever. -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------BA7981302E0836E6A0D41DC0-- from homes-sold@attbi.com Wed Dec 19 01:52:36 2001 fBJ7qZt08710 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:52:35 - ;Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:52:29 +0000 Subject: Re: 60 degree bits Tom,Twas I who started this thread. Thanks to all of your input and with =some other research here is a summary:No one makes a router bit with a 60=B0 notch, if you will, in the side = The closest router bit to it is a variable double chamfer assembly, =Amana #49730; its called a 3 wing. Can't use it for our work in a =beveler because it will not close completely to a 60=B0 notch.I did find what is called a double angle cutter, looks like a double =sided differential gear. MSC# 03205218, about $30 each. Two of these on =a 1" shaft would give you a 60=B0 cutting tool to rough bevel strips in =one pass. Design and build a beveler to use these puppies? Don Subject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like to see a bit witha =60 degree notch in it, not a point. I thought I did a thorough job =checking the links posted so far, all I found was points.Bad ascii art:||_||_| |\ / - This part 60 degrees..../ \|__| Tom Tom,Twas I who started this thread. Thanks= your input and with some other research here is a summary:No one makes a router bit with a 60=B0= The closest router bit to it is a = chamfer assembly, Amana #49730; its called a 3 wing. Can't use it for = in a beveler because it will not close completely to a 60=B0 =notch.I did find what is called a double = Two of these on a 1" shaft would give you a 60=B0 cutting tool to rough = puppies? punt.Don From: Tom Ausfeld Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:24 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like = points.Bad ascii art: _||_ degrees.... |__| Tom from ajthramer@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 02:42:27 2001 fBJ8gQt09594 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:42:26 - Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:41:01 -0800 Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:41:00 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Handmills, $ on Marty FILETIME=[E3426480:01C18868] Bob has his finger on it here. IF i start out with a set of ferrules made and the reelseat made a 2/2 rod has about 10 hrs into it from raw culm to in the drying box with two coats of varnish on the wraps. Everything has to be in order, I will put the components for the rod into a plastic bin box. I will keep several of these boxes working at a time and I will fill them with the needed components. If I am making RS parts I will make a couple or three sets ahead for the next rods in order. This can get complicated as i build so many different styles of rods these days. Surprisingly running into cane problems doesn't add any real amount of time, the trick is to not just stare at it but get to fixing the problem. It only takes 5 min or so to grab another split strip and taper it by hand without setting up a machine. Russ at GW was talking to me about writing a book on production rod building...A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: Handmills, $ on MartyDate: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:03:41 -0500 Come on Joe, where would a full time rodmaker get that kinda money from?Just kidding, but I believe that it could be done as well. from splitting toplaning in 5-6 hours, using a roughing beveller, that is not far fetched.You just need to prepare and plan it out before hand, right?I would also like to add that many of the guys who can do this are notpumping out bad strips either. It is the kind of thing that comes withrepetition and hard work. A pro maker would have to be this prolific to stayalive (Or else charge dead guy prices).Best regards,Bob M. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Eastkoyfly@aol.comSent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Handmills Make it 6 hours and I'll put a $1000 on Marty. Joe _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 19 03:59:26 2001 fBJ9xPt12113 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:59:25 - Dkenney94@cs.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Handmills, $ on Marty You have exactly the same attitude as I have about the so called "moaning chair" said to reside in every boat builder's shed.A friend gave me an old kitchen chair once thinking I needed one but I unceremoniously used it to fuel the fire I was using to steam bend some wood. My friend ask Sandy (my wife) what I was like at birthdays [:-)] Tony At 08:41 AM 12/19/01 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: Bob has his finger on it here. IF i start out with a set of ferrules made and the reelseat made a 2/2 rod has about 10 hrs into it from raw culm to in the drying box with two coats of varnish on the wraps. Everything has to be in order, I will put the components for the rod into a plastic bin box. I will keep several of these boxes working at a time and I will fill them with the needed components. If I am making RS parts I will make a couple or three sets ahead for the next rods in order. This can get complicated as i build so many different styles of rods these days. Surprisingly running into cane problems doesn't add any real amount of time, the trick is to not just stare at it but get to fixing the problem. It only takes 5 min or so to grab another split strip and taper it by hand without setting up a machine. Russ at GW was talking to me about writing a book on production rod building...A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: Handmills, $ on MartyDate: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:03:41 -0500 Come on Joe, where would a full time rodmaker get that kinda moneyfrom?Just kidding, but I believe that it could be done as well. from splitting toplaning in 5-6 hours, using a roughing beveller, that is not far fetched.You just need to prepare and plan it out before hand, right?I would also like to add that many of the guys who can do this are notpumping out bad strips either. It is the kind of thing that comes withrepetition and hard work. A pro maker would have to be this prolific tostayalive (Or else charge dead guy prices).Best regards,Bob M. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Eastkoyfly@aol.comSent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Handmills Make it 6 hours and I'll put a $1000 on Marty. Joe _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from "Marty D. aka \"none" Wed Dec 19 05:29:38 2001 fBJBTct12960 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:29:38 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4176. . Clean. Processed in 1.064077 secs); 19 Dec 200111:29:37 -0000 sender ) Subject: Re: Handmills --------------AE34223F96E4C9215F4B4703 The first three rods I made I did so on unadjustable V blocks. Thosetook 50 to 60 hours. An adjustable planing form was added later whichcut the time to 30 to 45 hours. I then added a Bellinger rough bevelerwhich again cut the time to around 20 hours for a complete rod (ofcourse with everything you do the more you do it the faster you get). Iam not counting heat treating time of glue drying time. To me finishinga rod takes much longer then making the stick. Please , I am notbragging.My only point is that I do not believe a TMHM is "at least 4times faster" then a Beveler and form. Now , don't get me wrong . If Iwere to start new today and was SURE bamboo was in my blood I would buya Tom Morgan Hand Mill. I still might! Marty Marty Jason Swan wrote: I have to say, Marty, that this is something I would love to see!Most people talk about 30-60 hours on a split cane rod. As I see it,all you will have left is gluing, binding, straightening, andfinishing. About another 5 to 10 hours of work, depending on howquickly you can finish it. Do you really finish a rod in 10 to 15hours? How??? If you left 3 hours of the five for splitting, thatwould mean you can taper a strip in 10 minutes (not countingbeveling). What kind of mill do you use? Do you have to adjust itduring beveling? When do you heat treat? I hope you don't mind thequestions, but I haven't yet built a rod, and I would love to learnhow to do this so quickly! On the topic of the hand mill, there was one at the FFF Internationalconclave several years ago when it was at Idaho Falls. They werethere as part of the bamboo rod symposium that Ralph organized. Theyhad a fellow doing an 18 strip rod. I think it took him 6 hours tobevel and taper the strips. Add to that the time it takes to split,press the nodes and heat treat, and there you go. Jason On 12/18/01 4:03 PM, "Marty D. aka "none" wrote: I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takesabout 2 hours). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can splitstrips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2blank in 5 hours. That means you would have to split strips,press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (if that's what youcall it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see that myself.Marty --------------AE34223F96E4C9215F4B4703 The first three rods I made I did so on unadjustable V blocks. Those took50 to 60 hours. An adjustable planing form was added later which cut thetime to 30 to 45 hours. I then added a Bellinger rough beveler which againcut the time to around 20 hours for a complete rod (of course witheverythingyou do the more you do it the faster you get). I am not counting heattreatingtime of glue drying time. To me finishing a rod takes much longer thenmaking the stick. Please , I am not bragging.My only point is that I donot believe a TMHM is "at least 4 times faster" then a Beveler and form.Now , don't get me wrong . If I were to start new today and was SURE bamboowas in my blood I would buy a Tom Morgan Hand Mill. I still might! MartyMartyJason Swan wrote:I have to say, Marty, thatthis of the five for splitting, that would mean you can taper a strip in 10 I hope you don't mind the questions, but I haven't yet built a rod, andI would love to learn how to do this so quickly!On the topic of the hand mill, there was one atthe FFF International conclave several years ago when it was at Idaho They were there as part of the bamboo rod symposium that Ralph press the nodes and heat treat, and there you go.JasonOn 12/18/01 4:03 PM, "Marty D. aka "none"<horsesho@ptd.net>wrote: I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen I can split strips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2blank in 5 hours. That means you would have to split strips, press nodes,set up the TMHM, and plane (if that's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min.I would have to see that myself. Marty --------------AE34223F96E4C9215F4B4703-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 19 06:57:46 2001 fBJCvit13897 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:57:45 - Subject: wraps Something said on list a couple of months back about how intermediates are done ie. continuous wrapping sealed with shellac or similar has had me wondering if normal wraps couldn't be done that way also and if anybody has tried it with long term results.I was thinking you'd start the wrap in the usual way and finish it also in the usual way but instead of finishing it in the normal way, super glue the thread end in place and cut the thread from there.This would keep the thread in place without having the ridge or exit from under the wrap hassles.Put a coat of varnish or what ever you use on the wraps then when cured cut the wrap back to the finished point required, scrape the super glue off the blank and bob's possibly your uncle. Like I wrote, has anybody tried this or a variation of it? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Having been erased,The document you're seekingMust now be retyped. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 19 07:10:34 2001 fBJDAWt14219 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:10:32 - Subject: Re: wraps Sorry, I have a head cold and I'm on some serious prescription medicine. At least I have an excuse this time. Something said on list a couple of months back about how intermediates are done ie. continuous wrapping sealed with shellac or similar has had me wondering if normal wraps couldn't be done that way also and if anybody has tried it with long term results. This should have read: I was thinking you'd start the wrap in the usual way but instead of finishing it in the normal way, super glue the thread end in place and cut the thread from there.This would keep the thread in place without having the ridge or small tag exit from under the wrap hassles.Put a coat of varnish or what ever you use on the wraps then when cured cut the wrap back to the finished point required, scrape the super glue off the blank and bob's possibly your uncle. Like I wrote, has anybody tried this or a variation of it? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Having been erased,The document you're seekingMust now be retyped. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from harms1@pa.net Wed Dec 19 07:38:15 2001 fBJDcEt14918 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:38:14 - Subject: Re: Handmills Jim, I'm with you on the time estimates. I just don't understand how one canturn out a truly first-rate rod in every respect in less than 60-70 hours. flattening nodes and squaring-up for the beveler. Not counting flaming,spliting, staggering and cutting to length, I always spend a minimum of 20minutes per strip on just this part, and frequently 30-35 minutes to geteach one exactly right. My objectives on each strip are to get the bends and kinks DEAD STRAIGHT(not just pretty good), and to square-up the strip by planing excess cane sothe strip shows no grain run-out whatever. Then, when I use my Medvedbeveller and my Morgan Hand Mill, I am always planing straight down theprepared strip, and always following the grain. I just don't know how onecan prepare a strip properly in less time. The Hand Mill makes quick and accurate work of the planing, and theglue/binding stage goes quickly enough too. But the many stages infininshing a rod, once again, become extremely time-consuming. Goodattention to detail cannot be rushed, and I just don't see how one can turnout a "perfect" rod in less than 60 hours or so. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Handmills Marty: You're fast indeed, it takes me about 12 hours to file the nodes, flame the culm, split the strips, then cut to length, straighten and flatten thenodes, run through the Medved Beveller, bind the strips for heat treating,and then heat treat. That's before I ever even start to set up my planingform. Most of my rods take more then 70 hours to complete. Jim From: "Marty D. aka \"none" Subject: Re: HandmillsDate: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:03:16 -0500 I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2hours). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes, run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means youwould have to split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (ifthat's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see thatmyself. Marty Jojo DeLancier wrote: I must disagree. A rough beveler and the Morgan Hand Mill is at least4 times faster than a rough beveler and planing form, including theset up time for the Hand Mill, which takes longer due to changing theanvils, but which time is probably offset by the need to sharpen theplane irons. M-D From: Marty D. aka "noneI have seen one in action at the Catskill gathering. Theyare nice and I would like to get one just for quads . I dothink however that a rough beveler (Belinger)and planingform is faster. Marty John Kenealy wrote: Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of purchasing ahandmill. I'm getting to the point where I can't keep upwith orders and i'm looking for a way to speed up myoperation.What is the general conscensus and is thereanyone in Northern New England who has one and who wouldbe willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm in centralMaine).TIA John K -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here from bob@downandacross.com Wed Dec 19 07:51:37 2001 fBJDpat15333 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:51:36 - Subject: Handmill, the real advantage Marty, Jason, M-D:I agree with much of what you all have had to say on this. It is hard tobelieve that someone could plane out a rod so quickly by any means. It isseeing it that leads to believing, and I have seen others produce excellentstrips quickly. As for the Hand Mill, I believe that while it is faster to cut with twoblades at once, and to not have to stop to sharpen, the major benefit of theMorgan Hand Mill is not speed. You cannot rush good strips of any kind. Ithink the Hand Mill is the ticket for its versatility, repeatibility, andits ability to do so many things well. I would say that I spend 15-20minutes tapering each section in the Hand Mill after roughing out the stripsin the beveller. Then I heat treat and I spend another 5 minutes finishingthem out. I do not see how the Hand Mill is too much faster for me when Ihave to do things like: change anvils, true anvils, swap inserts, or make 5passes over each strip at the same setting to finish the strips like I do. I know that in the past, my zealous nature concerning the Hand Mill may haveled some to believe that making rods on it is a no brainer. While it isconvenient in so many ways, a lousy rod is still a lousy rod. The prep workis still the most important aspect. I think in the time that I have enjoyedmy Hand Mill, it has often caused me to short change myself on the prepwork, figuring the Hand Mill will over come slightly crooked strips or bumpynodes. Also, the Hand Mill's ability to cut 4 and 5 siders will not make anyof us Sam Carlson or Nat Uslan. If you rush too much on the Hand Mill, you are asking for trouble, just asin any planing technique. I would say the Hand Mill is about two timesfaster. If you want to make 20-30 rods a year, it is the best thing foraccomplishing that goal. I still like the idea of an electric mill better Just my opinion,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Handmills The first three rods I made I did so on unadjustable V blocks. Those took50 to 60 hours. An adjustable planing form was added later which cut thetime to 30 to 45 hours. I then added a Bellinger rough beveler which againcut the time to around 20 hours for a complete rod (of course witheverything you do the more you do it the faster you get). I am not countingheat treating time of glue drying time. To me finishing a rod takes muchlonger then making the stick. Please , I am not bragging.My only point isthat I do not believe a TMHM is "at least 4 times faster" then a Beveler andform. Now , don't get me wrong . If I were to start new today and was SUREbamboo was in my blood I would buy a Tom Morgan Hand Mill. I still might!Marty Marty Jason, M-D: much of what you all have had to say on this. It is hard to believe that = could plane out a rod so quickly by any means. It is seeing it that = Hand Mill, I believe that while it is faster to cut with two blades at = to not have to stop to sharpen, the major benefit of the Morgan Hand = speed. You cannot rush good strips of any kind. I think the Hand Mill is = things well. I would say that I spend 15-20 minutes tapering each = Hand Mill after roughing out the strips in the beveller. Then I heat = spend another 5 minutes finishing them out. I do not see how the Hand = too much faster for me when I have to do things like: change anvils, = anvils, swap inserts, or make 5 passes over each strip at the same = finish the strips like I do. in the past, my zealous nature concerning the Hand Mill may have led = believe that making rods on it is a no brainer. While it is convenient = many ways, a lousy rod is still a lousy rod. The prep work is still the = important aspect. I think in the time that I have enjoyed my Hand Mill, = often caused me to short change myself on the prep work, figuring the = will over come slightly crooked strips or bumpy nodes. Also, the Hand = Uslan. too much on the Hand Mill, you are asking for trouble, just as in any = technique. I would say the Hand Mill is about two times faster. If you = make 20-30 rods a year, it is the best thing for accomplishing that = Just my opinion, owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Behalf Of Marty D. aka "noneSent: Wednesday, December19, = RodmakersSubject: Re:Handmills first three rods I made I did so on unadjustable V blocks. Those took = hours. An adjustable planing form was added later which cut the time = 45 hours. I then added a Bellinger rough beveler which again cut the = around 20 hours for a complete rod (of course with everything you do = you do it the faster you get). I am not counting heat treating time of = drying time. To me finishing a rod takes much longer then making the = Please , I am not bragging.My only point is that I do not believe a = "at least 4 times faster" then a Beveler and form. Now , don't get me = If I were to start new today and was SURE bamboo was in my blood I = from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Dec 19 07:52:37 2001 fBJDqZt15476 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:52:35 - 0000 Subject: Re: 60 degree bits Don, I new these existed (the MSCones). from what others have said about =excessive run out, I'm going to and abandon the router idea. I'll work =on something more substantial using these MSC cutters. It'll be next =year's project. When the new Ausfeld Fiscal year comes around, I'm over =budget this year. tom Subject: Re: 60 degree bits Tom,Twas I who started this thread. Thanks to all of your input and with =some other research here is a summary:No one makes a router bit with a 60=B0 notch, if you will, in the side = The closest router bit to it is a variable double chamfer assembly, =Amana #49730; its called a 3 wing. Can't use it for our work in a =beveler because it will not close completely to a 60=B0 notch.I did find what is called a double angle cutter, looks like a double =sided differential gear. MSC# 03205218, about $30 each. Two of these on =a 1" shaft would give you a 60=B0 cutting tool to rough bevel strips in =one pass. Design and build a beveler to use these puppies? Don Subject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like to see a bit =witha 60 degree notch in it, not a point. I thought I did a thorough =job checking the links posted so far, all I found was points.Bad ascii art:||_||_| |\ / - This part 60 degrees..../ \|__| Tom Don, = said about excessive run out, I'm going to and abandon the router = over budget this year. tom ----- Original Message ----- Schneider Sent: Wednesday, December 19, = AMSubject: Re: 60 degree =bits Tom,Twas I who started this thread. = your input and with some other research here is a =summary:No one makes a router bit with a = you will, in the side of the bit. If you want one you have to have it = The closest router bit to it is a = chamfer assembly, Amana #49730; its called a 3 wing. Can't use it for = in a beveler because it will not close completely to a 60=B0 =notch.I did find what is called a double = each. Two of these on a 1" shaft would give you a 60=B0 cutting tool = puppies? punt.Don From: Tom Ausfeld Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:24 PMSubject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would = points.Bad ascii art: _||_ degrees.... |__| Tom from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Dec 19 08:27:03 2001 fBJER2t16549 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:27:02 - (209.181.151.110) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Handmills understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3091591620_24867 Rats! I was hoping for a secret that might get me going quicker first crac=kout of the box. Sounds like a lot of other builders are on your track. Iguess I just need to get in there and get a couple dozen rods under my belt=\. Thanks for giving me a goal to shoot for, though. Jason On 12/19/01 4:24 AM, "Marty D. aka "none" wrote: The first three rods I made I did so on unadjustable V blocks. Those took= 50 to 60 hours. An adjustable planing form was added later which cut the tim= e to 30 to 45 hours. I then added a Bellinger rough beveler which again cut th= e time to around 20 hours for a complete rod (of course with everythingyou= do the more you do it the faster you get). I am not counting heat treating t= ime of glue drying time. To me finishing a rod takes much longer then making = the stick. Please , I am not bragging.My only point is that I do not believe = a TMHM is "at least 4 times faster" then a Beveler and form. Now , don't ge= t me wrong . If I were to start new today and was SURE bamboo was in my blood= I would buy a Tom Morgan Hand Mill. I still might! Marty Marty Jason Swan wrote: I have to say, Marty, that this is something I would love to see! Mostpeople talk about 30-60 hours on a split cane rod. As I see it, all you= will have left is gluing, binding, straightening, and finishing. About anoth= er 5 to 10 hours of work, depending on how quickly you can finish it. Do youreally finish a rod in 10 to 15 hours? How??? If you left 3 hours of t= he five for splitting, that would mean you can taper a strip in 10 minutes = (not counting beveling). What kind of mill do you use? Do you have to adjust= it during beveling? When do you heat treat? I hope you don=92t mind thequestions, but I haven=92t yet built a rod, and I would love to learn how = to do this so quickly! On the topic of the hand mill, there was one at the FFF Internationalconclave several years ago when it was at Idaho Falls. They were there a= s part of the bamboo rod symposium that Ralph organized. They had afellowdoing an 18 strip rod. I think it took him 6 hours to bevel and taper t= he strips. Add to that the time it takes to split, press the nodes and hea= t treat, and there you go. On 12/18/01 4:03 PM, "Marty D. aka "none" wrote: I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2 hours= ). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes , run it= thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means you would have t= o split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (if that's what y= ou call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see that myself. Marty --B_3091591620_24867 Re: Handmills get m= et a couple dozen rods under my belt. Thanks for giving me a goal to shoot for, though. Jason On 12/19/01 4:24 AM, "Marty D. aka "none"<horsesho@ptd.n= The first three rods Imade I did s=o on unadjustable V blocks. Those took 50 to 60 hours. An adjustableplaning=form was added later which cut the time to 30 to 45 hours. I then added aB=ellinger rough beveler which again cut the time to around 20 hours for acom=plete rod (of course with everything you do the more you do it the fasteryo=u get). I am not counting heat treating time of glue drying time. To me fini=shing a rod takes much longer then making the stick. Please , I am notbragg=ing.My only point is that I do not believe a TMHM is "at least 4 times =faster" then a Beveler and form. Now , don't get me wrong . If I were t=o start new today and was SURE bamboo was in my blood I would buy a TomMorg=an Hand Mill. I still might! Marty Marty Jason Swan wrote: I have to say, Marty, thatthis is = a= s=plitting, that would mean you can taper a strip in 10 minutes (not counting = questio=ns, but I haven=92t yet built a rod, and I would love to learn how to do this =so quickly! On the topic of the hand mill, there was one at the FFF International concl=ave several years ago when it was at Idaho Falls. They were there as partof=the bamboo rod symposium that Ralph organized. They had a fellow doing an1= at, and there you go. Jason On 12/18/01 4:03 PM, "Marty D. aka "none"<horsesho@ptd.n= I have 15 plane ironswhich I sharp= I can split strips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 bla=nk in 5 hours. That means you would have to split strips, press nodes, set u=p the TMHM, and plane (if that's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I woul=d have to see that myself. Marty --B_3091591620_24867-- from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Dec 19 08:30:10 2001 fBJEU9t16792 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:30:09 - GAA26781; GAA04561; fBJEU5K02337; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:30:05 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: 60 degree bits this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I think what you have to do is gang up two blades (30 degree?) on a mandrel. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: 60 degree bits I'm not sure who started this post, but I would like to see a bit witha 60degree notch in it, not a point. I thought I did a thorough job checkingthe links posted so far, all I found was points.Bad ascii art:||_||_| |\ / - This part 60 degrees..../ \|__| Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 20017:14 PMSubject: 60 degree bits www.mlcswoodworking.com has 60*signmakingbits , #5422,1/2"dia, 3/4"carbide height, 1/4" shank,$14.00, free shipping.#7722-1/2"shank-$14. I tried them, and went back to a straight flute, and a30* bed. Chad I think what you have to do is gang up two blades (30 degree?) on a mandrel. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair Planning 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld 18, 2001 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: 60 degree bitsI'm not sure who started this post, but I would like tosee points.Bad ascii art: _||_ degrees.... |__| Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: chad wigham Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 20017:14 PMSubject: 60 degree bits www.mlcswoodworking.comhas 60* signmaking bits , #5422,1/2"dia, 3/4"carbide height, 1/4" shank,$14.00,free shipping. #7722-1/2"shank-$14. I tried them, and went back to a straight flute, and a 30* bed. Chad from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Dec 19 08:55:55 2001 fBJEtst18131 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:55:54 - 0000 (63.228.46.174) Subject: production time At Greyrock last summer I saw and casted a lot of rods. Some were very =old by famous old firms and some were new, built by the guys who were =there. Sometimes my interest in the rod was the action and always it was =examined as to quality of workmanship.In my own journey with this craft I have decided on a number of things =my rods must have and construction methods I must adhere to. I have my =own thoughts on silk colors, reel seat wood colors, hardware colors and =material. etc. I threw out rough strips for 4 rods this Fall because I =thought they were flamed to deeply and I didn't want to go that far into =the power fibers. As builders I think we make standards for ourselves =and pretty much stick to them until something turns up to change our =methods. My thoughts are always how can I make the next one better.Thinking of some of the outstanding rods I saw at Greyrock it dawned on =me after the latest exchange on time spent that in looking at the rods =no matter what they looked like ( some were truly magnificent) I never = My rods take me until I've finished them. Even if I wanted to keep track =of the time I'm not sure how I would factor in the 4 blanks I threw = My concern with my next rod is how can I make it better. The list helps =immeasurably with this. They will take as long as it takes to finish =them.Dave At Greyrock last summer I sawand = of rods. Some were very old by famous old firms and some were new, built = guys who were there. Sometimes my interest in the rod was the action and = it was examined as to quality of workmanship.In my own journey with this craft I= on a number of things my rods must have and construction methods I must = to. I have my own thoughts on silk colors, reel seat wood colors, = colors and material. etc. I threw out rough strips for 4 rods this Fall = I thought they were flamed to deeply and I didn't want to go that far = power fibers. As builders I think we make standards for ourselves and = much stick to them until something turns up to change our methods. My = are always how can I make the next one better.Thinking of some of theoutstanding = at Greyrock it dawned on me after the latest exchange on time spent that = magnificent) I never once thought to ask the maker how long it took him = a rod. My rods take me until I've finished= if I wanted to keep track of the time I'm not sure how I would factor in = blanks I threw away. My concern with my next rod ishow = better. The list helps immeasurably with this. They will take as long as = takes to finish them.Dave from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Dec 19 09:32:46 2001 fBJFWjt19662 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:32:45 - 0000 Subject: Re: production time At the start of each rod, I say to myself "What didn't I like on the =last rod?" That's what I spend extra concentration on this rod. Its =too easy to become automatic.As for production time, I never really gave it a whole lot of thought, =but then again, I'm not doing this for a living. If time is of the =essence then an electric mill/beveler would be the way to go. The =planing/beveling process is the only part of rod construction that time =can drastically be saved by using different methods. Heat treating, =gluing, finishing, wrapping, ferruling, corking, etc.. there's not a =whole lot of opportunity for short cuts, other than being proficient and =efficient.Has a cnc type beveler ever been done and can bamboo be machined to our =tolerances?? Something with control in two axis, one being beveler =hieght and the other is the bamboo position. It would seem that using =stepper motors and lead screws that you can break down the taper, so =that when bamboo is at position x, cutter should be a depth y. No forms =needed, just a prepped strip. Multiple passes probably required, and =maybe even a position sensing feedback. This has been floating around =in my head for a while now and the more I plane, the louder it gets.Any comments?? tom Subject: production time At Greyrock last summer I saw and casted a lot of rods. Some were very =old by famous old firms and some were new, built by the guys who were =there. Sometimes my interest in the rod was the action and always it was =examined as to quality of workmanship.In my own journey with this craft I have decided on a number of things =my rods must have and construction methods I must adhere to. I have my =own thoughts on silk colors, reel seat wood colors, hardware colors and =material. etc. I threw out rough strips for 4 rods this Fall because I =thought they were flamed to deeply and I didn't want to go that far into =the power fibers. As builders I think we make standards for ourselves =and pretty much stick to them until something turns up to change our =methods. My thoughts are always how can I make the next one better.Thinking of some of the outstanding rods I saw at Greyrock it dawned =on me after the latest exchange on time spent that in looking at the =rods no matter what they looked like ( some were truly magnificent) I =never once thought to ask the maker how long it took him to build a rod. = My rods take me until I've finished them. Even if I wanted to keep =track of the time I'm not sure how I would factor in the 4 blanks I = My concern with my next rod is how can I make it better. The list =helps immeasurably with this. They will take as long as it takes to =finish them.Dave Hello all, = As for production time, I never really gave it a = planing/beveling process is the only part of rod construction that time = finishing, wrapping, ferruling, corking, etc.. there's not a whole lot = efficient.Has a cnc type beveler ever been done and = using stepper motors and lead screws that you can break down the taper, = while now and the more I plane, the louder it gets.Any comments?? tom ----- Original Message ----- Dave =Norling Sent: Wednesday, December 19, = AMSubject: production time At Greyrock last summer I sawand = of rods. Some were very old by famous old firms and some were new, = the guys who were there. Sometimes my interest in the rod was the = always it was examined as to quality of workmanship.In my own journey with this craft= decided on a number of things my rods must have and construction = must adhere to. I have my own thoughts on silk colors, reel seat wood = hardware colors and material. etc. I threw out rough strips for 4 rods = Fall because I thought they were flamed to deeply and I didn't want to = far into the power fibers. As builders I think we make standards for = and pretty much stick to them until something turns up to change our = My thoughts are always how can I make the next one =better.Thinking of some of the = at Greyrock it dawned on me after the latest exchange on time spent = magnificent) I never once thought to ask the maker how long it took = build a rod. My rods take me until I've = if I wanted to keep track of the time I'm not sure how I would factor = blanks I threw away. My concern with my next rod ishow = it better. The list helps immeasurably with this. They will take as = takes to finish them.Dave from rmoon@ida.net Wed Dec 19 09:48:18 2001 fBJFmHt20462 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:48:17 - RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: More than you need to know about ink Wayne Cattanach used log wood to dye his daughter's purple rodRalph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from homes-sold@attbi.com Wed Dec 19 10:02:25 2001 fBJG2Ot21194 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:02:25 - Subject: Power Feed Beveler You may have a Power Feed Beveler and not know it. I have a 12" Power Planer that I've used with a very light weight =carrier, actually an adjustable starter form. The form has a starter =groove on one side and a no trapper 60=B0 groove on the other that works = The first thing to do is run the strips through without the carrier, =pith side up and thickness plane them slightly over size for the largest =dimension of the section at hand. This goes very fast because the planer =being 12" wide you don't have to wait for one to finish before you start = Adjust the thickness on the planner so it will feed the form through but =not cut it. Adjust the starter form so that the enamal side of the strip =is slightly above the top surface of the form. Put the strips in the =starter groove side and run all of the strips through one at a time. The =power feed rolls force the strips into the groove and hold the them in = Turn the carrier form over and run the strips through on the 60=B0 side. = Bind and heat treat. Works well for me and I didn't have to build a = If you don't have a Power Planer, you can buy one for about $300 and =they are a very handy tool to have around for lots of other projects. =Yes, I own all of the Power Planner manufacturing companies. :>) Cheers, Don You may have a Power Feed Beveler and= it. I have a 12" Power Planer that I've = very light weight carrier, actually an adjustable starter form. The form = starter groove on one side and a no trapper 60=B0 groove on the other = pretty well. through without the carrier, pith side up and thickness plane = over size for the largest dimension of the section at hand. This goes = because the planer being 12" wide you don't have to wait for one to = Adjust the thickness on the planner = feed the form through but not cut it. Adjust the starter form so that = side of the strip is slightly above the top surface of the = Turn the carrier form over and run Bind and heat treat. Works well for me= have to build a Power Feed Beveler. If you don't have a Power Planer, you = Cheers, Don from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Dec 19 10:26:13 2001 fBJGQCt22344 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:26:12 - for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:25:55 - MAILINID810-1219112555; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:25:55 -0500 Subject: URAC Catalyst List, I'm a little confused on what catalyst to use with URAC. from what Iunderstand, the "factory" hardener that comes with the glue is the walnutflower. However, seems like some believe ammonium chloride is a bettercatalyst for the boo. Where is ammonium chloride available? Thanks, Kyle from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 19 10:39:08 2001 fBJGd7t23074 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:39:07 - Subject: Re: Canerods and Harley runs! tfinger@services.state.mo.us Bob et al.,We will be in Silver Gate just outside the YNP's NE entrance in July and August and of course will be at the conclave's cane rod symposium. Spanish Creek sounds great to me-I ain't got no Harley, tho.Cheers,Hank. from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Wed Dec 19 11:13:43 2001 fBJHDgt24648 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:13:42 - Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:13:41 PST Subject: Drilling cork with tubing On small diameter tubes used to bore sleeves forferrule plugs it works better to sharpen the outsideof the brass tubes. This puts the cutting edge on theinside wall of the tube making it easier to extractthe cork centers. Also less likely to crack the corksleeve when cutting the outside surface with thelarger brass tube. Chris __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Dec 19 11:20:12 2001 fBJHKBt25136 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:20:12 -0600 0000 Subject: Router Rough Miller Guys.I have plans for a router based rough bamboo cutter that can be =made for less than $350 .E -Mail me off list and I will send to you.Best Hal. Guys. have plans for a router based rough bamboo cutter that can be made for = $350 . = send to you. Hal. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 19 11:26:04 2001 fBJHQ2t25635 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:26:03 - Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu That's interesting. Does it act as a drying agent also or just a colorant? Tony At 08:48 AM 12/19/01 -0700, Ralph Moon wrote: Wayne Cattanach used log wood to dye his daughter's purple rodRalph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00 project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from flyfish@gbronline.com Wed Dec 19 11:38:50 2001 fBJHcnt26373 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:38:49 - 11:34:27 2001 -0600 "ctcaneman@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Blanks an understatement if I ever saw one! James Harris wrote: Paul,A good question! Try a search in rodmakers archives. I think you will findmore information than you need. Jim "Paul Hamm" 12/14/01 12:24PM >>> Hello, I am new to cane, and thought for my first rod I wouldbuild from a blank. The prices are a little more thanI anticipated. I did find one in my price range made input as to the quality of these blanks. Thank you, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from CALucker@aol.com Wed Dec 19 11:41:37 2001 fBJHfat26682 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:41:37 - Subject: Re: 60 degree bits rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu homes-sold@attbi.com writes: The closest router bit to it is a variable double chamfer assembly, #49730; its called a 3 wing. Can't use it for our work in a beveler becaus= it will not close completely to a 60=B0 notch. The pair of Amana cutters I closed to a complete 60 degree notch. I the cutters and put a spacer of about 0.004 between to leave only a overlap of the cutters. The carbide was wider by a slight amount than together perfectly, but I did not want to risk chipping the carbide.Chris Lucker In a message dated12/18/=01 11:53:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, homes- sold@attbi.com writes: The closest router bitto i=t is a variable double chamfer assembly, Amana #49730; its called a 3 Can't use it for our work in a beveler because it will not close to a 60=B0 notch. The pair of Amana cutters I closed to a complete 60 degree notch. I offset the cutters and put a spacer of about 0.004 between to leave onlya= cutte=rs would nest together perfectly, but I did not want to risk chipping the ca=rbide.Chris Lucker from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Dec 19 11:48:15 2001 fBJHmEt27204 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:48:14 - Subject: "ctcaneman@yahoo.com" Some of it is rodmaking related too [:-)] On that thought I've just put up a small page at my site with some canoes and dingys I've built over the years people may be interested in seeing. This is not a cunning plan to get people to check my page as it is a road to nowere. I recently offered to send somebody on the list the lines for an English 20 canoe but I can't find who it was as I've corresponded with a few people about boats recently. If you read this could you please let me know.Sorry about that. http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/tonys_boats.html Tony At 11:37 AM 12/19/01 -0600, Greg Kuntz wrote: an understatement if I ever saw one! James Harris wrote: Paul,A good question! Try a search in rodmakers archives. I think you will find more information than you need. Jim /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from CALucker@aol.com Wed Dec 19 12:17:23 2001 fBJIHMt28533 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:17:22 - Subject: Re: Harris.James@ev.state.az.us In a message dated 12/19/01 9:49:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/tonys_boats.html Very nice work Tony. I would like to make a boat for my Mom's home. Chris Lucker In a message dated12/19/01 9:49:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/tonys_boats.html Chris Lucker from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Dec 19 12:30:13 2001 fBJIUCt29103 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:30:12 - Subject: Re: 60 degree bits If I recall correctly Bob Milward, in his book, says he can have 60 =degree "notched" router bits made to order. If I recall correctly Bob Milward, in = order. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Dec 19 12:43:48 2001 fBJIhlt29669 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:43:47 - for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:43:34 - Subject: unsubscribe please unsubscribe from rmoon@ida.net Wed Dec 19 13:09:21 2001 fBJJ9Lt00639 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:09:21 - 0000 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: More than you need to know about ink I don't know Tony. My experience was that it was used as a dye and as acomponent of dyes. I could never get a good color from it, but then Iam a klutz.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Dec 19 13:09:26 2001 fBJJ9Ot00648 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:09:25 - helo=computer) id 16Gm5j-0003Kf-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:09:24 -0500 Subject: Bob Venneri's phone number Guys,If someone could take a second and send me Bob's phone number, I would =appreciate it. I had his site in my magic box until the 14 year old =decided to "help" the computer !!Thanks,Mike Guys,If someone could take a second andsend = until the 14 year old decided to "help" the computer !!Thanks,Mike from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Dec 19 13:15:10 2001 fBJJF9t01160 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:15:09 - id ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:08:34 -0500 id Y2QPVDQ2; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:08:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Venneri's phone number Mike, He is listed in the bamboo sources directory (site listed below) underSources - Components - Reel Seats. Web site, phone & email areavailable toward the bottom of the page. mike shaffer wrote: Guys,If someone could take a second and send me Bob's phone number, Iwould appreciate it. I had his site in my magic box until the 14 yearold decided to "help" the computer !!Thanks,Mike -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from ctcaneman@yahoo.com Wed Dec 19 13:56:39 2001 Received: from fBJJuct03367 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 Received: from [209.19.97.210] by web21201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Dec rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thanks for the responses! Ifound up a Phillipson Peerless impregnated rod, the butt section is badlywater damaged, tips are perfect. I can get a butt section from the fly shop Igot the tips from, mic'd one out that is almost exact, but not impregnated.As far as value goes, I know rod won't be worth a whole lot, but waswondering if there would be performance degradation using a non- impregnated butt? Paul__________________________________________________ Do YouYahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your uniqueholiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid athttp://auctions.yahoo.com > from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Dec 1914:15:10 2001 Received: from web11205.mail.yahoo.com tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN paul,there are those that would consider a not impreganated butt section aperformance inprovement. [:-)] timothy --- Paul Hammwrote: Thanks for the responses! I found up a Phillipson Peerless impregnated rod,thebutt section is badly water damaged, tips areperfect.I can get a butt section from the fly shop I got thetips from, mic'd one out that is almost exact, butnotimpregnated.As far as value goes, I know rod won't be worth awhole lot, but was wondering if there would beperformance degradation using a non-impregnatedbutt? Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions forall ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy athttp://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Wed Dec 19 15:18:51 2001 fBJLImt11971 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:18:49 - fBJKVUD13437 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:31:30 -0300 Subject: Dia Triste. Hoy es unos de los d=EDas mas tristes. Probre tierra mia. Pobre mi =pa=EDs. =BF Ustedes ven por TV lo que esta pasando en mi tierra ?. =Fueron saqueados los supermercados. Yo hoy al mediod=EDa no pude =almorzar, de la tristesa que sent=ED. Saben ustedes que Mar del Plata, =mi cuidad tiene 700000 Habitantes. El 24 % esta desocupado. Quiere decir =que casi 200000 personas no tienen trabajo. Si esas personas tienen =familia, calculen ustedes que navidad van a pasar estas familias. =Estamos peor que Afganistan. Yo ruego que me perdonen por contar estas =cosas. Se estan matando argentinos con los mismos argentinos. Alberto. Today is some of the days but sad. Probre my earth. Poor my country. Do =you come for TV that that this passing in my earth? . The supermarkets =were plundered. Me today at noon I could not eat lunch, of the tristesa =that I felt. They know you that Mar del Plata, my you take care he/she =has 700000 Inhabitants. 24% this unoccupied one. He/she means that =almost 200000 people don't have work. If those people have family, =calculate you that navidad will pass these families. We are worse than =Afghanistan. I request that they forgive me to count these things. They = joseus@cybertech.com.arwww.geocities.com/albertoyjoseusman Hoy es unos de los d=EDas mas tristes. Probre tierra mia. Pobre mi = Ustedes ven por TV lo que esta pasando en mi tierra ?. Fueron saqueados = supermercados. Yo hoy al mediod=EDa no pude almorzar, de la tristesa que = Saben ustedes que Mar del Plata, mi cuidad tiene 700000 Habitantes. El = desocupado. Quiere decir que casi 200000 personas no tienen trabajo. Si = familias. Estamos peor que Afganistan. Yo ruego que me perdonen por = Alberto.Today is some of the days but sad. Probre my earth. Poor my country. = come for TV that that this passing in my earth? . The supermarkets plundered. Me today at noon I could not eat lunch, of the tristesa that = Inhabitants. 24% this unoccupied one. He/she means that almost 200000 = don't have work. If those people have family, calculate you that navidad = pass these families. We are worse than Afghanistan. I request that they = Argentineans. Alberto. joseus@cybertech.com.arwww.geocities.com/alb=ertoyjoseusman from caneman@clnk.com Wed Dec 19 15:44:08 2001 fBJLi7t12995 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:44:07 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: URAC Catalyst Kyle,The walnut flour has Ammonium Chloride in it. It is the catalyst, notthe walnut flour. You can get Ammonium Chloride from various sources...some Pharmacies carry it, Chemical supply houses in larger towns, or youcancall Nasco in Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin and order it directly from them (theyare one of many manufacturers of this stuff) What you want is ReagentGrade, Granular, Ammonium Chloride (NH4Cl) It is not DOT regulated, so youwon't have any problem getting them to ship it to you via UPS.Also, if I'm not mistaken, you can get it Goldenwitch under the name"K-6 Hardener" . You might want to call and check with Russ or Bill, butI'm 95% sure it's the same stuff. later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: URAC Catalyst List, I'm a little confused on what catalyst to use with URAC. from what I understand, the "factory" hardener that comes with the glue is the walnutflower. However, seems like some believe ammonium chloride is a bettercatalyst for the boo. Where is ammonium chloride available? Thanks, Kyle from jaqfoll@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 19 15:49:44 2001 fBJLnht13456 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:49:43 - ;Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:49:37 +0000 , Subject: Re: Handmills Bill Harms:I couldn't resist this. See we told you to build nodeless and then you couldget that time down below 60hrs.Cheers. Jack from bob@downandacross.com Wed Dec 19 16:25:29 2001 fBJMPSt14848 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:25:29 - Subject: RE: URAC Catalyst Golden Witch is where I got mine. Good luck with having the big bag of whitepowder shipped to you. (Just kidding).Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: URAC Catalyst List, I'm a little confused on what catalyst to use with URAC. from whatI understand, the "factory" hardener that comes with the glue isthe walnut flower. However, seems like some believe ammoniumchloride is a better catalyst for the boo. Where is ammoniumchloride available? Thanks, Kyle from rodwrapp@swbell.net Wed Dec 19 17:10:04 2001 fBJNA4t16413 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:10:04 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: HERTERS SUPER Z FERRULES I still have the Herters Ferrules and I would like to trade for a reelseat or 2Agate guides. Anybody interested email me off list.. These ferrules arebrand new still in package.. Thanks Dave I still have the Herters Ferrules and I wouldlike me off Dave from "Marty D. aka \"none" Wed Dec 19 17:16:35 2001 fBJNGZt16783 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:16:35 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4176. . Clean. Processed in 6.161331 secs); 19 Dec 200123:16:32 -0000 Subject: Re: Handmills I don't know? I know A.J. and Bob Nunley are putting out first rate rods(therepro's) and I am sure if they spent 60 hours on a rod they wouldn't be. MartyWILLIAM HARMS wrote: Jim, I'm with you on the time estimates. I just don't understand how one canturn out a truly first-rate rod in every respect in less than 60-70 hours. flattening nodes and squaring-up for the beveler. Not counting flaming,spliting, staggering and cutting to length, I always spend a minimum of 20minutes per strip on just this part, and frequently 30-35 minutes to geteach one exactly right. My objectives on each strip are to get the bends and kinks DEAD STRAIGHT(not just pretty good), and to square-up the strip by planing excess canesothe strip shows no grain run-out whatever. Then, when I use my Medvedbeveller and my Morgan Hand Mill, I am always planing straight down theprepared strip, and always following the grain. I just don't know how onecan prepare a strip properly in less time. The Hand Mill makes quick and accurate work of the planing, and theglue/binding stage goes quickly enough too. But the many stages infininshing a rod, once again, become extremely time-consuming. Goodattention to detail cannot be rushed, and I just don't see how one can turnout a "perfect" rod in less than 60 hours or so. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jim Bureau" Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:31 AMSubject: Re: Handmills Marty: You're fast indeed, it takes me about 12 hours to file the nodes, flame the culm, split the strips, then cut to length, straighten and flatten thenodes, run through the Medved Beveller, bind the strips for heat treating,and then heat treat. That's before I ever even start to set up my planingform. Most of my rods take more then 70 hours to complete. Jim From: "Marty D. aka \"none" Subject: Re: HandmillsDate: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:03:16 -0500 I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2hours). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes, run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means youwould have to split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (ifthat's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see thatmyself. Marty Jojo DeLancier wrote: I must disagree. A rough beveler and the Morgan Hand Mill is at least4 times faster than a rough beveler and planing form, including theset up time for the Hand Mill, which takes longer due to changing theanvils, but which time is probably offset by the need to sharpen theplane irons. M-D From: Marty D. aka "noneI have seen one in action at the Catskill gathering. Theyare nice and I would like to get one just for quads . I dothink however that a rough beveler (Belinger)and planingform is faster. Marty John Kenealy wrote: Hi All, I've been toying with the idea of purchasing ahandmill. I'm getting to the point where I can't keep upwith orders and i'm looking for a way to speed up myoperation.What is the general conscensus and is thereanyone in Northern New England who has one and who wouldbe willing to let me see it in operation?(I'm in centralMaine).TIA John K -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here from hartzell@easystreet.com Wed Dec 19 18:07:50 2001 fBK07nt17946 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:07:50 - fBK07da11356; Subject: Re: production time --------------9503BF4825B519505BF7C290 Tom,Richard Sherman in southern California has built a CNC mill thatoperates according to your specs. He says it works very well and isrelatively easy to set up.Ed Hartzell Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Hello all, At the start of each rod, I say to myself "What didn't Ilike on the last rod?" That's what I spend extra concentration onthis rod. Its too easy to become automatic.As for production time, Inever really gave it a whole lot of thought, but then again, I'm notdoing this for a living. If time is of the essence then an electricmill/beveler would be the way to go. The planing/beveling process isthe only part of rod construction that time can drastically be saved wrapping, ferruling, corking, etc.. there's not a whole lot ofopportunity for short cuts, other than being proficient andefficient.Has a cnc type beveler ever been done and can bamboo bemachined to our tolerances?? Something with control in two axis, onebeing beveler hieght and the other is the bamboo position. It wouldseem that using stepper motors and lead screws that you can break downthe taper, so that when bamboo is at position x, cutter should be adepth y. No forms needed, just a prepped strip. Multiple passesprobably required, and maybe even a position sensing feedback. Thishas been floating around in my head for a while now and the more Iplane, the louder it gets.Any comments?? tom ----- Original Message----- From: Dave Norling Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:56 AMSubject: production timeAt Greyrock last summer I saw and casted a lot of rods.Some were very old by famous old firms and some were new,built by the guys who were there. Sometimes my interest inthe rod was the action and always it was examined as toquality of workmanship.In my own journey with this craft Ihave decided on a number of things my rods must have andconstruction methods I must adhere to. I have my ownthoughts on silk colors, reel seat wood colors, hardwarecolors and material. etc. I threw out rough strips for 4rods this Fall because I thought they were flamed to deeplyand I didn't want to go that far into the power fibers. Asbuilders I think we make standards for ourselves and prettymuch stick to them until something turns up to change ourmethods. My thoughts are always how can I make the next onebetter.Thinking of some of the outstanding rods I saw atGreyrock it dawned on me after the latest exchange on timespent that in looking at the rods no matter what they lookedlike ( some were truly magnificent) I never once thought toask the maker how long it took him to build a rod.My rodstake me until I've finished them. Even if I wanted to keeptrack of the time I'm not sure how I would factor in the 4blanks I threw away.My concern with my next rod is how can Imake it better. The list helps immeasurably with this. Theywill take as long as it takes to finish them.Dave --------------9503BF4825B519505BF7C290 Tom, works very well and is relatively easy to set up.Ed HartzellJill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: the start of each rod, I say to myself "What didn't I like on the last Its too easy to become automatic.As for productiontime, I never really gave it a whole lot of thought, but then again, I'm is the only part of rod construction that time can drastically be saved ferruling, corking, etc.. there's not a whole lot of opportunity for shortcuts, other than being proficient and efficient.Hasa cnc type beveler ever been done and can bamboo be machined to our Something with control in two axis, one being beveler hieght and the other lead screws that you can break down the taper, so that when bamboo is at prepped while now and the more I plane, the louder it gets.Any OriginalMessage ----- From:DaveNorling Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 20019:56 AM Subject: production time sawand casted a lot of rods. Some were very old by famous old firms and somewere new, built by the guys who were there. Sometimes my interest in therod was the action and always it was examined as to quality ofworkmanship.Inmy own journey with this craft I have decided on a number of things myrods must have and construction methods I must adhere to. I have my ownthoughts on silk colors, reel seat wood colors, hardware colors and material.etc. I threw out rough strips for 4 rods this Fall because I thought theywere flamed to deeply and I didn't want to go that far into the power fibers.As builders I think we make standards for ourselves and pretty much stickto them until something turns up to change our methods. My thoughts arealways how can I make the next one better.Thinkingof some of the outstanding rods I saw at Greyrock it dawned on me afterthe latest exchange on time spent that in looking at the rods no matterwhat they looked like ( some were truly magnificent) I never once thoughtto ask the maker how long it took him to build a rod.Myrods take me until I've finished them. Even if I wanted to keep track ofthe time I'm not sure how I would factor in the 4 blanks I threwaway.Myconcern with my next rod is how can I make it better. The list helpsimmeasurablywith this. They will take as long as it takes to finishthem.Dave --------------9503BF4825B519505BF7C290-- from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Dec 19 20:53:36 2001 fBK2rZt20285 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:53:35 - Subject: Re: URAC Catalyst I buy ammonium chloride from my neighborhood drug store. Its likely theywon't have it in stock, but they can get it from their wholesaler by way oftheir next order. I've never waited more than 10 days to receive my order.Here in Canada I'm paying $6.20/100grams or $20.00/500 grams Cdn. (approx.$4.00/$14.00 US.) retail over the counter. 100 grams is enough to do 10 or12 rods. from goodaple@cox-internet.com Wed Dec 19 22:00:44 2001 fBK40it21510 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:00:44 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.02.00.10 201-232-116-110 licensedd72657b95c070b1853187e4f5a0d6a7) Subject: Ferrule making stuff Can someone tell me what reamers and bit sizes I will need to start =making ferrules from solid rounds? I would really appreciate it. Thanks, =Randall G. NW AR. Can someone tell me what reamers and= will need to start making ferrules from solid rounds? I would really = it. Thanks, Randall G. NW AR. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Thu Dec 20 05:24:54 2001 fBKBOrt25969 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:24:53 - Subject: 7'9"#5 JK Wheeldon Quadrate Taper Two Piece If anyone is interested in the above rod here goes ;The following dims having been measured over varnish; 0 .0685 .08010 .09515 .11320 .12525 .13330 .14835 .16040 .16545 .18050 .19355 .21060 .25065 .26070 .27775 .30483 .320Handle 10" Seasonal greets and a merry crimbo.........Paul from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Dec 20 06:52:20 2001 fBKCqKt27124 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:52:20 - id ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:45:44 -0500 id Y2QPVDZT; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:45:41 -0500 Subject: Think I got bounced. Just delete testing. Only got 7 messages overnight. It's just not right!-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Dec 20 06:56:23 2001 Received: fBKCuLt27279 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 From: "Peter McKean" References: Subject: Re: More than you need to know 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I thought WC used KmnO4 todye his daughter's purple rod. Peter > from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.usThu Dec 20 07:59:10 2001 Received: from server.wethersfield.k12.ct.us Subject: Setting forms Date: Thu, 20 Dec2001 09:00:12 -0500 Message-ID: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Is there another way to setyour forms gap other than using a depth gage? Depth gage is not on theSanta delivery list. But some other goodies are, hopefully will start my firstrod soon. Pete > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 20 08:12:37 2001 fBKECat29072 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:08:44 -0600 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us CC: "Rod Makers (E-mail)"Subject: Re: Setting forms References:Content-Type: text/plain; fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Pete,Yes, there is. Some would argue that a far more accurate method of settingforms involves using drill rods, dial calipers, and a little mathematics. I thinkthere is an excellent description on one of the list contributors websites --perhaps Chris Bogart's site?? Harry PS - A dial indicator with a 60* point canbe fashioned inexpensively enough. Total cost should be less than $35 even ifyou buy the base from Enco Peter Van Schaack wrote: Is there another way to set your forms gap other than using a depth gage? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Dec 20 08:23:36 2001 fBKENZt29545 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:23:35 - fBKEMLl19913; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Subject: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variabilityin the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselveswith the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers?dws. Harry Boyd wrote: Pete, Yes, there is. Some would argue that a far more accurate method ofsetting forms involves using drill rods, dial calipers, and a littlemathematics. I think there is an excellent description on one of the listcontributors websites -- perhaps Chris Bogart's site?? Harry PS - A dial indicator with a 60* point can be fashioned inexpensivelyenough. Total cost should be less than $35 even if you buy the base fromEnco Peter Van Schaack wrote: Is there another way to set your forms gap other than using a depthgage? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 20 08:29:42 2001 fBKETft29891 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:29:41 - (authenticated) Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:29:14 -0800 Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? David, I would argue that: No, the variability naturally present in bamboonecessitates precision rather than allowing us some room for imprecisemeasurements. Only a limited number of controllable variables exist whilemakingrods. Accurate measurements make it possible for one less problem to rearitsugly head. Harry earsdws@duke.edu wrote: That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variabilityin the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselveswith the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Dec 20 08:35:02 2001 fBKEZ2t00395 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:35:02 - 0000 "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Of course we are kidding ourselves, old timers used to shoot for 1/64"(.015"). tom---- Original Message ----- Subject: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers?dws. Harry Boyd wrote: Pete, Yes, there is. Some would argue that a far more accurate method ofsetting forms involves using drill rods, dial calipers, and a littlemathematics. I think there is an excellent description on one of the list contributors websites -- perhaps Chris Bogart's site?? Harry PS - A dial indicator with a 60* point can be fashioned inexpensively enough. Total cost should be less than $35 even if you buy the base from Enco Peter Van Schaack wrote: Is there another way to set your forms gap other than using a depth gage? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from earsdws@duke.edu Thu Dec 20 08:36:24 2001 fBKEaOt00592 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:36:24 - fBKEaGl20619; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Harry,I understand your point and I use 0.001" measure on my Morgan Hand Mill. What Iwonder about is, given the extraordinary variation in bamboo, does this makeadifference? I imagine that, if powerfibers are the issue, tapers shouldactually bespecified in "number of powerfibers deep/wide" to be "precise." This is aarmagnacand fire-type discussion. Happy holidays, dws. Harry Boyd wrote: David, I would argue that: No, the variability naturally present in bamboonecessitates precision rather than allowing us some room for imprecisemeasurements. Only a limited number of controllable variables exist whilemakingrods. Accurate measurements make it possible for one less problem torear itsugly head. Harry earsdws@duke.edu wrote: That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given thevariabilityin the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kiddingourselveswith the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Thu Dec 20 08:51:18 2001 fBKEpHt01676 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:51:18 - GAA07746; GAA27943; fBKElPK24117; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:47:25 -0800 Subject: RE: Setting forms-need for precision? but logically wouldn't be more prudent to increase the thickness of the rodin relation to the lessoning of power fibers from one culm to the next. thissame question has entered my brain from time to time, I know as a luthierone increase the thickness of the top and back (bending and flexing) partsof instruments in relation to the grain (power fiber) in spruce and maple. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? David, I would argue that: No, the variability naturally present in bamboonecessitates precision rather than allowing us some room for imprecisemeasurements. Only a limited number of controllable variables exist whilemakingrods. Accurate measurements make it possible for one less problem to rearitsugly head. Harry earsdws@duke.edu wrote: That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from caneman@clnk.com Thu Dec 20 08:52:26 2001 fBKEqPt01849 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:52:25 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:15:39 -0600 Subject: Fw: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given thevariabilityin the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kiddingourselveswith the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? I have to concur with Harry. We are already working with a relativelyvariable material so precision in OUR process becomes even more necessarytomaintain a constant product. No, we won't be able to obtain "perfect"repeatability in performance from rod to rod, probably not even if they'remade from the same harvest of culm or even the same culm, because of thevariance of the properties of the cane. We can, however, obtain a"relative" repeatability, but only if we have a dimensional standard andstick to it. In other words, it's more likely that we can build group of 7'5wt rods that are very close to the same performance if we do hold a tighttolerance than it is if we said, "Ahhhhh, What's a couple or threethousandths here and there?" later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod. from caneman@clnk.com Thu Dec 20 08:58:44 2001 fBKEwit02392 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:58:44 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? David,I understand your point about power fiber density, and that's one reasonthat only between 30% and 40% of the cane I buy is used to make rods. Therest goes to a furniture guy here in town who loves it, or to a monthlybonfire I have out back. First, I cull by outer appearance, then I have myown standard for fiber density. If a culm doesn't have the "pack" I like,then it gets sent over to the furniture shop. This is one of the "musts"that we have in place to insure consistency in performance. It goes hand inhand with our set tolerances. Making rods with drastically different fiberdensities would be like making a machine and not using the same grade metalevery time. Nothing is perfect, and granted, choosing fiber pack by eye isnot the most precise method in the world, but it does make a difference. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Harry,I understand your point and I use 0.001" measure on my Morgan Hand Mill. What I wonder about is, given the extraordinary variation in bamboo, does this make a difference? I imagine that, if powerfibers are the issue, tapers should actually be specified in "number of powerfibers deep/wide" to be "precise." This is a armagnac and fire-type discussion. Happy holidays, dws. Harry Boyd wrote: David, I would argue that: No, the variability naturally present in bamboonecessitates precision rather than allowing us some room for imprecisemeasurements. Only a limited number of controllable variables exist while making rods. Accurate measurements make it possible for one less problem to rear its ugly head. Harry earsdws@duke.edu wrote: That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rmoon@ida.net Thu Dec 20 09:05:29 2001 fBKF5St02852 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:05:28 - 0000 Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink Peter McKean wrote"I thought WC used KmnO4 to dye his daughter's purplerod. PeterOn reflexion, i do believe that you are right. That may also be why Inever had any success with logwood. Thanks for reminding me.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 20 09:06:37 2001 fBKF6at03037 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:06:36 -0600 helo=default) id 16H4mA-0006b7-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Handmills Well, I'm back. Trip got cancelled while on the road. Bummer. Marty, If, in my own experience, having planed with the block and form, and now =having a Morgan Hand Mill, and the MHM was at least 4 times faster for =me than planing strips by hand, was easily more accurate with less =effort, and provided easy repeatability, particularly when doing =multiple rods of the same taper, I then state this, how you could choose =not to believe it is beyond me. Now, I must have been the slowest hand =planer in the world, and you are obviously Super Man, who probably would =derive no time saving benefit whatsoever from a MHM, but this doesn't =negate my experience. It is what it is. We were talking about apples to apples: milling machine, the plane and =form vs. milling machine and the MHM. At no time were the other =variables of rodmaking considered. I make completed rods in 15 hr., and I make rods in 60+ hours. It's just =a matter of attention to detail and/or what a person desires in a rod. =Both rods are quality rods, just to varying degrees. M-D . . . SNIP My only point is that I do not believe a TMHM is "at least =4 times faster" then a Beveler and form. Now , don't get me wrong . If I =were to start new today and was SURE bamboo was in my blood I would buy = I have 15 plane irons which I sharpen all at once (takes about 2 =hours). I only use 2 to 3 irons per rod. I can split strips ,press nodes =, run it thru the mill, and plane a 2/2 blank in 5 hours. That means you =would have to split strips, press nodes, set up the TMHM, and plane (if =that's what you call it ) in 1 hour 15 min. I would have to see that = Well, I'm back. Trip got= while on the road. Bummer. Marty, If, in my ownexperience, = planed with the block and form, and now having a Morgan Hand Mill, and = was at least 4 times faster for me than planing strips by hand, was = when doing multiple rods of the same taper, I then state this, how you = choose not to believe it is beyond me. Now, I must have been the slowest = planer in the world, and you are obviously Super Man, who probably would = experience. It is what it is. We were talking about= considered. I make completed rodsin = I make rods in 60+ hours. It's just a matter of attention to detail = degrees. M-D Marty D.= "none SNIP My only point is that I do not believe a TMHM is "at least 4 = faster" then a Beveler and form. Now , don't get me wrong . If I were = new today and was SURE bamboo was in my blood I would buy a Tom Morgan= I have 15 plane irons which I = can split strips ,press nodes , run it thru the mill, and plane a = blank in 5 hours. That means you would have to split strips, press = set up the TMHM, and plane (if that's what you call it ) in 1 hour = = from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 20 09:25:44 2001 fBKFPit04176 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:25:44 -0600 helo=default) id 16H54p-0001oO-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:25:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Agreed. I believe it should make a difference. M-D That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given thevariabilityin the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kiddingourselveswith the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? I have to concur with Harry. We are already working with a relativelyvariable material so precision in OUR process becomes even morenecessary to maintain a constant product. No, we won't be able to obtain "perfect"repeatability in performance from rod to rod, probably not even if they'remade from the same harvest of culm or even the same culm, because ofthevariance of the properties of the cane. We can, however, obtain a"relative" repeatability, but only if we have a dimensional standard andstick to it. In other words, it's more likely that we can build group of 7' 5wt rods that are very close to the same performance if we do hold a tighttolerance than it is if we said, "Ahhhhh, What's a couple or threethousandths here and there?" later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod. from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Thu Dec 20 09:28:02 2001 fBKFS1t04407 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:28:01 - HAA07288; HAA18676; fBKFRvK09048; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:27:56 -0800 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: Setting forms-need for precision? but isn't that what the old guys did and why the same model of rod, fromlets say Leonard, have different thicknesses. Didn't they compensate for thelack of or the excess power fiber so that the rods would have pretty muchthe same action? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Fw: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given thevariabilityin the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kiddingourselveswith the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? I have to concur with Harry. We are already working with a relativelyvariable material so precision in OUR process becomes even more necessarytomaintain a constant product. No, we won't be able to obtain "perfect"repeatability in performance from rod to rod, probably not even if they'remade from the same harvest of culm or even the same culm, because of thevariance of the properties of the cane. We can, however, obtain a"relative" repeatability, but only if we have a dimensional standard andstick to it. In other words, it's more likely that we can build group of 7'5wt rods that are very close to the same performance if we do hold a tighttolerance than it is if we said, "Ahhhhh, What's a couple or threethousandths here and there?" later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod. from jojo@ipa.net Thu Dec 20 09:32:52 2001 fBKFWqt04794 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:32:52 -0600 helo=default) id 16H5Bj-0004N6-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:32:52 -0500 Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink Nope, the KMnO4 didn't work. He used a purple pen, a Prismacolor, I believe. M-D Peter McKean wrote"I thought WC used KmnO4 to dye his daughter's purplerod. Peter On reflexion, i do believe that you are right. That may also be why Inever had any success with logwood. Thanks for reminding me.Ralph --WWW.ida.net/users/rmoon/Symposium from caneman@clnk.com Thu Dec 20 09:34:46 2001 fBKFYjt05031 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:34:45 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) "Rod Makers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Of course we are kidding ourselves, old timers used to shoot for 1/64"(.015"). Tom,True, but then again, why do we, as rodmakers, and other fishers andcollectors of cane say that "WE" are making better bamboo rods than haveever been made? My opinion is because we do have tools, instruments andknowledge that make it possible for us to make more precision fishing rods.Notice that a lot of the "old timers" didn't put a line weight on theirrods? Reason "may" have been that with a 1/64th tolerance that they hadNO Timersrods, like Lyle Dickerson, Payne, Gillum, and you'll find that not only aretheir tolerances just as tight as ours, but in some cases, like Dickerson,I've seen rods that were DEAD ON, not only in dimension from flat to flat,but from station to station in like rods. The "Masters" among the oldtimers did NOT settle for a 1/64th tolerance, they were definitely sticklers Still, going back to an earlier response of mine on this subject, we, asa group, tend to use a much higher percentage of cane that the "old timers"and some of the contemporary master makers. Ask Glenn Brackett what hiscull rate is. Ask Bob Summers. Ask Ron Kusse. Ask T&T, Orvis and evenPartridge! I believe, in most cases, you'll find that none of these usemore than about half of the cane they buy, and some of them consider 30-35%usable cane to be a good average. I know more than one who has sent backorthrown out entire bales because they did not meet their set standards. Iknow one that hasn't even started production yet (but will soon and has beenin the business in the past) that has a varmit fence off of his back deckmade of bamboo that a lot of people would be happy to make rods from. JerryM. saw the fence, and heard me threaten to sneak back at night and steal it!The "old timers" and "masters" were not near as tolerant of variations inpower fiber density or outer appearance of the cane as "most" rodmakersaretoday. I know a few guys that use almost every culm they buy. Then again,I had a phone conversation the other day with someone that's very respectedin the rodmaking world where we discussed how nice it would be if we couldbuy a bale where even half of them met our standards...Patrick points out in an email I recieved in the same batch as yours,that in the luthier industry, thickness in soundboards and backs oninstruments are changed according to grain of the wood. When you buy agoodaged spruce soundboard and highly flamed maple back for a violin, you couldpay as much for those two pieces of wood as many charge for a custom flyrod... that's the wood alone! In that case, it's prudent to adjustdimension to the material. In our case, a bale of cane, delivered, shippingand all, cost about $24 a culm (going by an invoice I just paid to Demarestthis morning). We can afford to cull the material to get as consistent amaterial, and therefore as consistent a product, as possible. If we do thisproperly, then dimension should remain the same, and the tolerance we buildbuy should remain as tight as is possible to maintain that consistentproduct. I'm sure Patrick will agree with me on this (both of us havingexprience in making violins), if I could find a stack of 20 soundboards thatALL had 21 grains per inch, I wouldn't adjust the graduation (somewhat sameas a rod taper) of a soundboard from violin to violin... and if I could finda bale of bamboo where the power fiber density was the same throughout, I'dnever throw away or burn a single stick of cane. Just my thoughts,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? tom---- Original Message -----From: Cc: ; Rod Makers (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 9:21 AMSubject: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers?dws. Harry Boyd wrote: Pete, Yes, there is. Some would argue that a far more accurate method of setting forms involves using drill rods, dial calipers, and a littlemathematics. I think there is an excellent description on one of the list contributors websites -- perhaps Chris Bogart's site?? Harry PS - A dial indicator with a 60* point can be fashioned inexpensively enough. Total cost should be less than $35 even if you buy the base from Enco Peter Van Schaack wrote: Is there another way to set your forms gap other than using a depth gage? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from caneman@clnk.com Thu Dec 20 09:42:12 2001 fBKFgCt05672 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:42:12 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:05:26 -0600 Subject: Later Well, You guys get a couple of days break from my opinions! I'll continuemy hardheaded argument on tolerances and fiber density when I return!Heading out in a few minutes to the Hospital for a Physical and won't beback until tomorrow sometime (assuming they don't lock me up between nowandthen! LOL) Tight lines all, and for those that I won't see between now andthen MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Of course we are kidding ourselves, old timers used to shoot for 1/64"(.015"). tom---- Original Message -----From: Cc: ; Rod Makers (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 9:21 AMSubject: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers?dws. Harry Boyd wrote: Pete, Yes, there is. Some would argue that a far more accurate method of setting forms involves using drill rods, dial calipers, and a littlemathematics. I think there is an excellent description on one of the list contributors websites -- perhaps Chris Bogart's site?? Harry PS - A dial indicator with a 60* point can be fashioned inexpensively enough. Total cost should be less than $35 even if you buy the base from Enco Peter Van Schaack wrote: Is there another way to set your forms gap other than using a depth gage? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Dec 20 10:12:09 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fBKGC8t07337 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:12:08 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:12:08 -0600 Harry Boyd , Rodmakers Subject: RE: Setting forms-need for precision? This is a great topic for further discussion because I find it difficult asan inexperienced maker to know exactly what to look for in a culm. I've seenculms with tightly packed small fibers. I've seen culms with tightly packedlarger fibers. I've seen culms with less tight patterns, but still having agood concentration of fibers near the enamel in the area that would be usedin all but the largest strips. These fibers, too, varied in size, even inthe well-packed areas. I've seen small culms with very tightly packed verysmall fibers - are these better for tips/mids than a larger culm withtightly packed larger fibers? So it's not always obvious what a real masterwould consider the best culms, or even the extent to which a real masterpicks different culms for different purposes. Something that would be very helpful to us inexperienced rodmakers would bea series of well-lit photos of culms along with your opinion on theusability of each (in terms of the fibers, not surface blemishes which areeasy enough to deal with). I'd like to see great ones, poor ones, andeverything in between. The really terrible ones would be just as educationalas the best ones. I'd like to see the good and the bad in large diameter andsmaller diameter culms. Then I'd like to see what others say about it -which ones would they accept? (I'm assuming here that you make thesejudgments by looking at the fibers showing on the cut ends of the culms, butif not, we'd need photos of whatever you do look at.) I know this would besome work for someone, but it would be a great help. I've seen the 2 or 3photos (usually poor ones) in some of the books, but I'm talking about alarger number that would help us really understand what you look for. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? David,I understand your point about power fiber density, and that's one reasonthat only between 30% and 40% of the cane I buy is used to make rods. Therest goes to a furniture guy here in town who loves it, or to a monthlybonfire I have out back. First, I cull by outer appearance, then I have myown standard for fiber density. If a culm doesn't have the "pack" I like,then it gets sent over to the furniture shop. This is one of the "musts"that we have in place to insure consistency in performance. It goes hand inhand with our set tolerances. Making rods with drastically different fiberdensities would be like making a machine and not using the same grade metalevery time. Nothing is perfect, and granted, choosing fiber pack by eye isnot the most precise method in the world, but it does make a difference. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Harry,I understand your point and I use 0.001" measure on my Morgan Hand Mill. What I wonder about is, given the extraordinary variation in bamboo, does this make a difference? I imagine that, if powerfibers are the issue, tapers should actually be specified in "number of powerfibers deep/wide" to be "precise." This is a armagnac and fire-type discussion. Happy holidays, dws. Harry Boyd wrote: David, I would argue that: No, the variability naturally present in bamboonecessitates precision rather than allowing us some room for imprecisemeasurements. Only a limited number of controllable variables exist while making rods. Accurate measurements make it possible for one less problem to rear its ugly head. Harry earsdws@duke.edu wrote: That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Dec 20 10:18:02 2001 [161.130.112.185] (may be forged)) fBKGI1t07727 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:18:02 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:18:01 -0600 Subject: Selecting Culms, Good Power Fibers I'll resend this only because I forgot to change the subject to somethingthat reflects the topics....BK -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Setting forms-need for precision? This is a great topic for further discussion because I find it difficult asan inexperienced maker to know exactly what to look for in a culm. I've seenculms with tightly packed small fibers. I've seen culms with tightly packedlarger fibers. I've seen culms with less tight patterns, but still having agood concentration of fibers near the enamel in the area that would be usedin all but the largest strips. These fibers, too, varied in size, even inthe well-packed areas. I've seen small culms with very tightly packed verysmall fibers - are these better for tips/mids than a larger culm withtightly packed larger fibers? So it's not always obvious what a real masterwould consider the best culms, or even the extent to which a real masterpicks different culms for different purposes. Something that would be very helpful to us inexperienced rodmakers would bea series of well-lit photos of culms along with your opinion on theusability of each (in terms of the fibers, not surface blemishes which areeasy enough to deal with). I'd like to see great ones, poor ones, andeverything in between. The really terrible ones would be just as educationalas the best ones. I'd like to see the good and the bad in large diameter andsmaller diameter culms. Then I'd like to see what others say about it -which ones would they accept? (I'm assuming here that you make thesejudgments by looking at the fibers showing on the cut ends of the culms, butif not, we'd need photos of whatever you do look at.) I know this would besome work for someone, but it would be a great help. I've seen the 2 or 3photos (usually poor ones) in some of the books, but I'm talking about alarger number that would help us really understand what you look for. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? David,I understand your point about power fiber density, and that's one reasonthat only between 30% and 40% of the cane I buy is used to make rods. Therest goes to a furniture guy here in town who loves it, or to a monthlybonfire I have out back. First, I cull by outer appearance, then I have myown standard for fiber density. If a culm doesn't have the "pack" I like,then it gets sent over to the furniture shop. This is one of the "musts"that we have in place to insure consistency in performance. It goes hand inhand with our set tolerances. Making rods with drastically different fiberdensities would be like making a machine and not using the same grade metalevery time. Nothing is perfect, and granted, choosing fiber pack by eye isnot the most precise method in the world, but it does make a difference. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Harry,I understand your point and I use 0.001" measure on my Morgan Hand Mill. What I wonder about is, given the extraordinary variation in bamboo, does this make a difference? I imagine that, if powerfibers are the issue, tapers should actually be specified in "number of powerfibers deep/wide" to be "precise." This is a armagnac and fire-type discussion. Happy holidays, dws. Harry Boyd wrote: David, I would argue that: No, the variability naturally present in bamboonecessitates precision rather than allowing us some room for imprecisemeasurements. Only a limited number of controllable variables exist while making rods. Accurate measurements make it possible for one less problem to rear its ugly head. Harry earsdws@duke.edu wrote: That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from beadman@mac.com Thu Dec 20 10:31:22 2001 fBKGVLt08624 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:31:21 - for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:30:49 - Subject: Re: Selecting Culms, Good Power Fibers At 10:17 AM -0600 on 12/20/01, Kling, Barry W. wrote about Selecting Culms, Good Power Fibers ...Something that would be very helpful to us inexperienced rodmakers wouldbea series of well-lit photos of culms along with your opinion on theusability of each (in terms of the fibers, not surface blemishes which areeasy enough to deal with). I'd like to see great ones, poor ones, andeverything in between. I agree with Barry - it would really help if those of you with a lot of experience in selecting "acceptable" culms could share photos and reasons with those of us who've haven't had a chance to acquire that knowledge through experience. This would even be a great addition to the RM web site, or Todd's Tips Site. Do any of you experienced folks have a good macro camera and some time to take some photos? Claude from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Dec 20 10:36:46 2001 fBKGakt09099 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:36:46 - Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:36:40 -0800 Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:36:40 GMT Subject: Re: Setting forms FILETIME=[8062E120:01C18974] Peter: gauge is by using test strips. Start by closing your forms completly, thenplane out 6 strips, just as though you were making a rod. Be sure the stripshave a true 60 degree angle. After completing the planing of the strips, from flat to flat. When you measure a spot that is, say .100 across the into 2 inch size and you'll have accurate little strips. Then you can use thepieces to later adjust your forms by putting the piece you need into yourform and adjusting as needed. Use a straight edge over the test strip andwhen it will slide over the strip, you've got using a depth gage? goodies are, Chat with friends online, try MSNMessenger: ClickHere from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Dec 20 10:43:04 2001 fBKGh3t09811 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:43:03 - 0000 "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Bob,I agree with all you say, I adhere to the .001" spec myself. But... Withthe variability of cane, .001" is probably overkill. It is prudent tostrive for the tightest reasonably achievable tolerance in order to keepvariance to a minimum, and I think .001" is not that difficult to obtain.If I were to say that I plane my rods to within .0005", would mine bebetter?? More precise, maybe, could you tell the difference casting, Isuspect not. I'll go out on a limb here, I think varaition between two rodsis more of a function of cane and its treatment than dimensions, assuming aresonable tolerance of say .005".My point was of the original post was: if you are having problemsachieveing .001", don't abandon rod making, perfectly good rods can be builtwith much less tolerance, and they will just as good as anybodies if theycast nice. Just don't bank on making a twin.happy holidaystom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Of course we are kidding ourselves, old timers used to shoot for 1/64"(.015"). Tom,True, but then again, why do we, as rodmakers, and other fishers andcollectors of cane say that "WE" are making better bamboo rods than haveever been made? My opinion is because we do have tools, instruments andknowledge that make it possible for us to make more precision fishing rods. Notice that a lot of the "old timers" didn't put a line weight on theirrods? Reason "may" have been that with a 1/64th tolerance that they had NO Timers rods, like Lyle Dickerson, Payne, Gillum, and you'll find that not only are their tolerances just as tight as ours, but in some cases, like Dickerson,I've seen rods that were DEAD ON, not only in dimension from flat to flat,but from station to station in like rods. The "Masters" among the oldtimers did NOT settle for a 1/64th tolerance, they were definitely sticklers Still, going back to an earlier response of mine on this subject, we, as a group, tend to use a much higher percentage of cane that the "old timers" and some of the contemporary master makers. Ask Glenn Brackett whathiscull rate is. Ask Bob Summers. Ask Ron Kusse. Ask T&T, Orvis and evenPartridge! I believe, in most cases, you'll find that none of these usemore than about half of the cane they buy, and some of them consider 30-35% usable cane to be a good average. I know more than one who has sent back or thrown out entire bales because they did not meet their set standards. Iknow one that hasn't even started production yet (but will soon and has been in the business in the past) that has a varmit fence off of his back deckmade of bamboo that a lot of people would be happy to make rods from. Jerry M. saw the fence, and heard me threaten to sneak back at night and steal it! The "old timers" and "masters" were not near as tolerant of variations inpower fiber density or outer appearance of the cane as "most" rodmakers are today. I know a few guys that use almost every culm they buy. Then again, I had a phone conversation the other day with someone that's very respected in the rodmaking world where we discussed how nice it would be if we couldbuy a bale where even half of them met our standards...Patrick points out in an email I recieved in the same batch as yours,that in the luthier industry, thickness in soundboards and backs oninstruments are changed according to grain of the wood. When you buy a good aged spruce soundboard and highly flamed maple back for a violin, you could pay as much for those two pieces of wood as many charge for a customflyrod... that's the wood alone! In that case, it's prudent to adjustdimension to the material. In our case, a bale of cane, delivered, shipping and all, cost about $24 a culm (going by an invoice I just paid to Demarest this morning). We can afford to cull the material to get as consistent amaterial, and therefore as consistent a product, as possible. If we do this properly, then dimension should remain the same, and the tolerance we build buy should remain as tight as is possible to maintain that consistentproduct. I'm sure Patrick will agree with me on this (both of us havingexprience in making violins), if I could find a stack of 20 soundboards that ALL had 21 grains per inch, I wouldn't adjust the graduation (somewhat same as a rod taper) of a soundboard from violin to violin... and if I could find a bale of bamboo where the power fiber density was the same throughout, I'd never throw away or burn a single stick of cane. Just my thoughts,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com----- Original Message -----From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Cc: ; "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 8:35 AMSubject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? tom---- Original Message -----From: Cc: ; Rod Makers (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 9:21 AMSubject: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers?dws. Harry Boyd wrote: Pete, Yes, there is. Some would argue that a far more accurate method of setting forms involves using drill rods, dial calipers, and a littlemathematics. I think there is an excellent description on one of the list contributors websites -- perhaps Chris Bogart's site?? Harry PS - A dial indicator with a 60* point can be fashioned inexpensively enough. Total cost should be less than $35 even if you buy the base from Enco Peter Van Schaack wrote: Is there another way to set your forms gap other than using a depth gage? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from stoltz10@attbi.com Thu Dec 20 11:49:58 2001 fBKHnvt12959 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:49:57 - Subject: test from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Thu Dec 20 12:04:28 2001 fBKI4Rt13534 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:04:27 - Subject: RE: test Kind of quiet today, everyone must have eaten too many Christmas cookies! Pete-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:36 PM Subject: test cookies! Pete StoltzSent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:36 = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: =test from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Dec 20 12:23:04 2001 fBKIMCt14265 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:22:12 -0600 0000 Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Tom, Bob and Others.A few statements were made that needs clearing up. The oldtimers didn't measure their sticks as you and I would today. They measuredthe ferrule station when they first set up to run a certain model rod. Theirsteel patterns were measured in 256th of an inch. We need to rememberthatthey used a steel or wood pattern which controlled the accuracy of theirstrips.Leonard claimed to cut strips that were within .001" of each other. I haveattached a copy of the Original tapers used by Leonard before 1917. thesereadings were made by Rubin Leonard and was from the original notebook.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Bob,I agree with all you say, I adhere to the .001" spec myself. But... Withthe variability of cane, .001" is probably overkill. It is prudent tostrive for the tightest reasonably achievable tolerance in order to keepvariance to a minimum, and I think .001" is not that difficult to obtain.If I were to say that I plane my rods to within .0005", would mine bebetter?? More precise, maybe, could you tell the difference casting, Isuspect not. I'll go out on a limb here, I think varaition between two rods is more of a function of cane and its treatment than dimensions, assuming a resonable tolerance of say .005".My point was of the original post was: if you are having problemsachieveing .001", don't abandon rod making, perfectly good rods can be built with much less tolerance, and they will just as good as anybodies if theycast nice. Just don't bank on making a twin.happy holidaystom ----- Original Message -----From: Bob Nunley Cc: ; Rod Makers (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:30 AMSubject: Re: Setting forms- need for precision? Of course we are kidding ourselves, old timers used to shoot for 1/64"(.015"). Tom,True, but then again, why do we, as rodmakers, and other fishers andcollectors of cane say that "WE" are making better bamboo rods thanhaveever been made? My opinion is because we do have tools, instrumentsandknowledge that make it possible for us to make more precision fishing rods. Notice that a lot of the "old timers" didn't put a line weight on theirrods? Reason "may" have been that with a 1/64th tolerance that theyhad NO Timers rods, like Lyle Dickerson, Payne, Gillum, and you'll find that not only are their tolerances just as tight as ours, but in some cases, like Dickerson, I've seen rods that were DEAD ON, not only in dimension from flat to flat, but from station to station in like rods. The "Masters" among the oldtimers did NOT settle for a 1/64th tolerance, they were definitely sticklers Still, going back to an earlier response of mine on this subject, we, as a group, tend to use a much higher percentage of cane that the "old timers" and some of the contemporary master makers. Ask Glenn Brackettwhat hiscull rate is. Ask Bob Summers. Ask Ron Kusse. Ask T&T, Orvis and evenPartridge! I believe, in most cases, you'll find that none of these usemore than about half of the cane they buy, and some of them consider 30-35% usable cane to be a good average. I know more than one who has sent back or thrown out entire bales because they did not meet their set standards. I know one that hasn't even started production yet (but will soon and has been in the business in the past) that has a varmit fence off of his back deck made of bamboo that a lot of people would be happy to make rods from. Jerry M. saw the fence, and heard me threaten to sneak back at night andsteal it! The "old timers" and "masters" were not near as tolerant of variations in power fiber density or outer appearance of the cane as "most"rodmakers are today. I know a few guys that use almost every culm they buy. Then again, I had a phone conversation the other day with someone that's very respected in the rodmaking world where we discussed how nice it would be if we could buy a bale where even half of them met our standards...Patrick points out in an email I recieved in the same batch as yours, that in the luthier industry, thickness in soundboards and backs oninstruments are changed according to grain of the wood. When you buy a good aged spruce soundboard and highly flamed maple back for a violin, you could pay as much for those two pieces of wood as many charge for a customflyrod... that's the wood alone! In that case, it's prudent to adjustdimension to the material. In our case, a bale of cane, delivered, shipping and all, cost about $24 a culm (going by an invoice I just paid to Demarest this morning). We can afford to cull the material to get as consistent a material, and therefore as consistent a product, as possible. If we do this properly, then dimension should remain the same, and the tolerance we build buy should remain as tight as is possible to maintain that consistentproduct. I'm sure Patrick will agree with me on this (both of us havingexprience in making violins), if I could find a stack of 20 soundboards that ALL had 21 grains per inch, I wouldn't adjust the graduation (somewhat same as a rod taper) of a soundboard from violin to violin... and if I could find a bale of bamboo where the power fiber density was the samethroughout, I'd never throw away or burn a single stick of cane. Just my thoughts,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com----- Original Message -----From: "Jill and Tom Ausfeld" Cc: ; "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 8:35 AMSubject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? tom---- Original Message -----From: Cc: ; Rod Makers (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 9:21 AMSubject: Setting forms-need for precision? That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers?dws. Harry Boyd wrote: Pete, Yes, there is. Some would argue that a far more accurate method of setting forms involves using drill rods, dial calipers, and a little mathematics. I think there is an excellent description on one of the list contributors websites -- perhaps Chris Bogart's site?? Harry PS - A dial indicator with a 60* point can be fashioned inexpensively enough. Total cost should be less than $35 even if you buy the base from Enco Peter Van Schaack wrote: Is there another way to set your forms gap other than using a depth gage? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Dec 20 12:43:52 2001 fBKIhpt15480 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:43:51 - Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:43:50 PST Subject: Holiday Wishes Happy Holidays to all and wishes for a healthy andbountiful New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from harms1@pa.net Thu Dec 20 14:00:25 2001 fBKK0Ot18320 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:00:24 - , "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Bob, Most of the professional makers you mentioned also saw their strips fromtheculm. The rejection rate is particularly high among those makers because ofthe need to avoid culms that threaten to yield grain run-out. For those ofus who are hand-slpitting, that issue wouldn't enter in. In the 1970s Ireceived a huge number of culms from Orvis for exactly that reason--culmsthat were, otherwise, just great. Additionally, makers of "blond" rods would be wary of culms that show signsof water-marks or other stains, whereas for those of us who flame our rods,such cosmetic imperfections are likely to be unimportant. So, again, therejection rate will vary accordingly. This isn't to argue against your advice that we should cull our suppliesmore carefully, but only to point out that the extremely high professionalrejection rate is created by additional factors beyond power fiber density.A good visual examination of each culm is the first thing, followed byjudicious "hefting" of many culms for a comparison test. Greater weightusually equals greater density. Lastly, upon splitting-out each and every culm, a sample strip needs to beseverely flex-tested between each node, Those who are not accustomed todoing this last test may be in for quite a shock. You will be surprised howmany otherwise good-looking culms have an unexpected weak area between asetof nodes. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Still, going back to an earlier response of mine on this subject, we, as a group, tend to use a much higher percentage of cane that the "old timers" and some of the contemporary master makers. Ask Glenn Brackett whathiscull rate is. Ask Bob Summers. Ask Ron Kusse. Ask T&T, Orvis and evenPartridge! I believe, in most cases, you'll find that none of these usemore than about half of the cane they buy, and some of them consider 30-35% usable cane to be a good average. I know more than one who has sent back or thrown out entire bales because they did not meet their set standards. Just my thoughts,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrods from harms1@pa.net Thu Dec 20 14:12:47 2001 fBKKCkt18972 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:12:46 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? If one is judicious in selecting his culms, there will still be somevariation, but it will not be anything like "extraordinary." Beyond this,there is nothing we can do to compensate for fiber density in a knowledgeable way. All we can do is to build with as much precision as ourtalents and equipment will allow. The moment one says to himself; "What the heck, a few thousandths here orthere in my planing can't be all that important!" you will only be adding to(rather than "forgiving") the inequalities that exist among different culms. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? Harry,I understand your point and I use 0.001" measure on my Morgan Hand Mill. What I wonder about is, given the extraordinary variation in bamboo, does this make a difference? I imagine that, if powerfibers are the issue, tapers should actually be specified in "number of powerfibers deep/wide" to be "precise." This is a armagnac and fire-type discussion. Happy holidays, dws. Harry Boyd wrote: David, I would argue that: No, the variability naturally present in bamboonecessitates precision rather than allowing us some room for imprecisemeasurements. Only a limited number of controllable variables exist while making rods. Accurate measurements make it possible for one less problem to rear its ugly head. Harry earsdws@duke.edu wrote: That raises (at least for me) an interesting question: Given the variability in the size, number and density of "powerfibers," are we kidding ourselves with the need for 0.001" (0.01"?) precision in setting tapers? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fquinchat@locl.net Thu Dec 20 14:36:02 2001 fBKKZxt19989 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:35:59 - Subject: Re: worthless logwood "information" Tony and Grayson, It's spelled cupola and I am a qualified operator. In the interest ofconservation we could use our mistakes to make charcoal rather thantomatostakes and use the charcoal to fire the cupola. Dennis-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: worthless logwood "information" Way to go Grayson!!! I have plans for a Capola furnace if you need them. Tony We undesirable elements recognize "logwood" as"Haematoxylin campechianum" a leguminous treecommon/present in most of South America. Chips of the treeare soaked in water to prepare an dye extract which can bedehydrated, and redissolved in various solutions. Theseare used to stain thin sections of biological specimens forlight microscopy. After I'm done growing my own bamboo,alloying my own nickel silver and harvesting silk from myown silk worms (thanks, George Parker Holden), I'm going toget busy making my own ink. Your rods just aren't customwhen you buy raw materials from bulk suppliers, you know.I'm signing off for a few days now to go south and harvestsome logwood. Maybe while I'm there I'll find some ore tosmelt to make own plane irons.-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Most of my life was spent in trying to figure out how to do a $50.00project for 50 cents,and the remainder of my time was spent in trying to scrounge up the 50 cents." Dave Gingery/*************************************************************************/ from jaqfoll@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 20 14:56:45 2001 fBKKujt21037 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:56:45 - ;Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:56:39 +0000 Subject: Re: More than you need to know about ink If that's potassium permanganate so did I. Jack from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Thu Dec 20 15:00:54 2001 fBKL0st21413 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:00:54 - fBKL0Vj12399; Subject: Re: worthless logwood "information" On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:53:39 -0500 Dennis Bertram wrote: Tony and Grayson, It's spelled cupola and I am a qualified operator. In the interest ofconservation we could use our mistakes to make charcoal rather thantomatostakes and use the charcoal to fire the cupola. Great! Yesterday, I planted some cork oak acorns. They should be ready to harvest the real flur grade rings in approx. 100 yrs. Man, this is gonna be cool! :^) -Grayson-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from CALucker@aol.com Thu Dec 20 16:46:46 2001 fBKMkkt25370 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:46:46 - Subject: Re: Setting forms-need for precision? rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 12/20/01 12:13:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,harms1@pa.net writes: Beyond this,there is nothing we can do to compensate for fiber density in aknowledgeable way. Except, perhaps, laminate 0.070" of bamboo to Port Orford Cedar to help standardize the material.Chris Lucker In a message dated12/20/01 12:13:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, harms1@pa.net writes: Beyond this,there is nothing we can do to compensate for fiber density in a Except, perhaps, laminate 0.070" of bamboo to Port Orford Cedar tohelp standardize the material.Chris Lucker from rodwrapp@swbell.net Thu Dec 20 16:52:27 2001 fBKMqRt25710 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:52:27 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Wayne Cattanch Book I have a Wayne Cattnach book, in a white notebook forsale .. If interestedemail off list or for pics.. This book is in near mint condition..Thanks Dave I have a Wayne Cattnach book, in a whitenotebook mint condition..Thanks Dave from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Dec 20 17:02:02 2001 fBKN21t26270 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:02:01 - for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:01:59 -0500 Subject: Bamboo quality I just did a favor for a friend .He wanted me to line his new bar with Bamboo culms.It looked very good when we finished.But we used an inexpensive bamboo and I got my first look at what the =difference betweenTonkin and Calcutta Bamboo was. Way less power fibers and the thickness =was very thin compared to Tonkin.(even on the Butt section) I was a =little surprised though. I didn't really think that the difference would =have been so great because I'm under the understanding that Calcutta was =used in the making of some older trade rods. There is a definite =advantage to the Tonkin we rod makers use. I guess I just never really = I took it for granted ,but always wondered. Has anyone made any rods = from Calcutta?Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} I just did a favor for a friend .He wanted me to line his new bar with Bamboo culms.It looked very good when we finished. difference between thickness was very thin compared to Tonkin.(even on the Butt = have been so great because I'm under the understanding that Calcutta was = compared. I took it for granted ,but always wondered. Has anyone made any = Calcutta?Tony Miller www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com=/bambooovens/home.html from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Dec 20 17:07:32 2001 fBKN7Vt26578 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:07:31 - for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:07:11 - MAILINID52-1220180711; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:07:11 -0500 Subject: Stanley Isn't Square List, I've got another one of my typical rookie questions, thanks for puttingup with me. Another interest of mine is homebrewing, which has anincredible internet list similar in many ways to Rodmakers. On the HomebrewDigest, when a rookie or lurker asks a basic question it often times turns into a thread that ultimately fleshes out a new insight unknown to the moreexperienced brewers. Anyway, I hope my newbie questions have a similareffect along with helping out lurkers who don't want to ask the stupidquestions that I do. Thanks for hanging in so far... I bought a new Stanley 9 1/2. I soled the plane and grooved it. I sanded theblade slide area where it exits the plane. I bought a new Hock blade, andsharpened it on the water stone, and flattened the backside. Before I usethe plane, I sight the blade so that it is even (parallel) with the sole and at adepth that will produce the desired cut. I do this using the lateral adjustmentand the depth adjustment. This has worked fine for me, but I am a littleworried because the blade isn't square to the throat opening. If I lookstraight down on top of the plane, the edge of the blade is not square to thethroat, but is at an angle. Seems like the edge of the blade should be parallelwith the throat. It looks like one side of the blade should extend deeper onthe sole than the other side, producing and angled cut. However, this doesn'thappen, I can plane down to the forms and produce equal sided cross-sections. Should I be worried about this, and is this normal? IMRR - is my rod ruined? Thanks, Kyle Merry Christmas everyone! from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Dec 20 17:18:20 2001 fBKNIJt27162 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:18:19 - for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:18:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanley Isn't Square KyleOn my Stanley there is an adjustment for the side to side rock of the =blade.Yours should have it, if it is a newer one.Look at the plane again and see if it has a two little tabs that hang =down just under the blade( near the forward adjustment screw).These are it.If it doesn't have this, you might have an older model.You can just tap the blade to (side to side) level it if your model =doesn't have this.Hope this helps:)Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} KyleOn my Stanley there is an adjustment for the side to side rock of = blade.Yours should have it, if it is a newer one.Look at the plane again and see if it has a two little tabs that = just under the blade( near the forward adjustment screw).These are it.If it doesn't have this, you might have an older model. model doesn't have this.Hope this helps:)Tony Miller www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com=/bambooovens/home.html from wkifer@harborside.com Thu Dec 20 17:44:09 2001 fBKNi8t28127 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:44:08 - 0000 Subject: Stanley No 9 --=======5E3246AA======= ascii; format=flowed All, I recently picked up an old all metal Stanley #9 at a yard sale. Other than most of the black paint having wore off it seems in good shape with little rust and has what would appear to be the original blade in good condition. Not knowing a great deal about old planes, I assuming this is a rabbit plane. Not counting the handle, the bed is 8 1/4" long and 1 1/4" wide. It has the small attachment with the flat sole on the side near the front that raises and lowers. The blade hold down has a B on the underside and the blade has Stanley Rule and Level Co. New Britain, Conn. stamped on it. Can anyone tell me about this model, i.e. the period it was made etc. TIA Wayne --=======5E3246AA=======-- from djhall@cisco.com Thu Dec 20 18:06:48 2001 fBL06lt28971 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:06:47 - Subject: Re: Agate Guides Tom,Thanks for sending out your and consolidating the infoon making agate guides.An idea was passed on to me from a rock-hound, for a "cheapcore drill". I have all the materials but have yet to try it. He mentionedit would not work as fast as a true diamond core drill, but would get thejob done.In summary, it uses steel tubing with square teeth cut in one end. This is thedrill. Use silicon carbide (60 grit) dust/water slurry as a diamond dust substituteworking as a pumice. Choose the 2 steel tubes dia for the appropriate dimensionsof the agate ring desired.Afix the "drill" in the drill press, put a 1/2 teaspoon of pumice on thebusiness end and grind away. Go slow in order for the drill not to "walk".Change out the pumice when no bite is taking place. Go slower whenalmost at end, orDo you think it would work? He's been in the business along time, andknew all the hardness (Moh's) between agate versus the materialssuggested. Oh yeah, make sure you drill the ring hole (smaller dia.) first, then justchange out the drill bit to the outer ring dia., a mistake only to be madeonce..... (until I forget) in a while [:)] Dan At 17:59 17/12/2001 -0500, Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Barry,I recently started making my own. I'm working on an article w/ pictures forPowerfibers. David Rinker wrote a short tutorial not long ago to the list. I pasted itbelow. After that, i included a jig clarification proc.This is what I used as my starting point. For core drills I used1/2" Lapcraft core drill and a 1/4" core drill. this gives you a ring 3/8"OD, 1/4" ID. The lapcraft drills are expensive ($35), the other drills Iused were $5 - 10. Kingsley North has a website with pictures of the coredrills. I drill under water. I went through tons of agate to get a dozenor so rings, I have a long way to go on technique. Drill slow and seeDavid's procedure regarding jig because you have to drill from both sides.I got my agate from a wholesaler, 100 slabs (1/8") thick for $50. Probable75% were useful. I put the ring on a wood mandrel in the lathe and form theoutside with a diamond file. Chamfer the inside with a diamond bur in thelathe. Polish with diamond paste.All other stuff, 18 ga. Nickel silver wire and nickel silver bezel I got from Kingsely or Alpha I forget. Alpha also has a decent website. For solder I use Stay Brite, melts at 450 degrees F. The bezel pusher, whichforms the bezel around the stone, I made from brass. Basically, I made atapered hole in the center of two pieces of brass round stock, like a die.I make a ring the same OD as the agate ring, press it over the agate ringand put between the two pieces of brass and tap with a hammer. It bendsthesides over the ring. The frame is straight forward. Solder it all togetherand there you go. I blacken mine, they come out nice.The rings are by far the most difficult to master. The drills are not cheapand I did dull one, that is why I now drill under water. The rest ispractice. This has been a very time consuming project, but like fly tying,once you get it, things go ok. Its getting past the first couple that looklike hell. If you want more info feel free to ask. Good LuckTom. from bluefin_1999@yahoo.com Thu Dec 20 18:09:23 2001 fBL09Mt29224 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:09:22 - 20 Dec 2001 16:09:22 PST Subject: Attachement Sizes Can we get some regulation on the size of attachementsthat are placed on the list server? Not everyone hascable modem. Thanks for the consideration !!!!! Merry Christmas to all and FLAME AWAY TO THOSE THATWISH !!!! BF __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Dec 20 18:12:28 2001 fBL0CRt29567 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:12:27 - (authenticated) Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:12:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Bamboo quality --------------69BD7A30655AF88DF557CD94 Tony, I'd be almost willing to wager that the bambooyou used on your friend's bar wasn't Calcutta.There are literally thousands of species of bambooin this world. Chances that you happened on theprevious leader in the category of rodmakingbamboos aren't good. Rods from Calcutta? No, but I tried makingone from Louisiana Bamboo. Plenty thick, lots of"power fibers" and totally unsuited for makingrods in every other way. Harry Tony Miller wrote: I just did a favor for a friend .He wanted me toline his new bar with Bamboo culms.It lookedvery good when we finished.But we used aninexpensive bamboo and I got my first look atwhat the difference betweenTonkin and CalcuttaBamboo was. Way less power fibers and thethickness was very thin compared to Tonkin.(evenon the Butt section) I was a little surprisedthough. I didn't really think that thedifference would have been so great because I'munder the understanding that Calcutta was usedin the making of some older trade rods. There isa definite advantage to the Tonkin we rod makersuse. I guess I just never really compared.I tookit for granted ,but always wondered. Has anyonemade any rods from Calcutta?TonyMiller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------69BD7A30655AF88DF557CD94 Tony, thousands the previous leader in the category of rodmaking bamboos aren't good. totally unsuited for making rods in every other way. Tony Miller wrote:BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000;BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Ijust did a favor for a friend .He wanted me to line his new bar with Bambooculms.It looked very good when we finished.But we used an inexpensivebambooand I got my first look at what the difference betweenTonkin and CalcuttaBamboo was. Way less power fibers and the thickness was very thincomparedto Tonkin.(even on the Butt section) I was a little surprised though. Ididn't really think that the difference would have been so great becauseI'm under the understanding that Calcutta was used in the making of someolder trade rods. There is a definite advantage to the Tonkin we rod makersuse. I guess I just never really compared.I took it for granted ,but alwayswondered. Has anyone made any rods from Calcutta?Tony www.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------69BD7A30655AF88DF557CD94-- from darrell@vFish.net Thu Dec 20 18:16:16 2001 fBL0GGt00078 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:16:16 - Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:16:13 -0600 Subject: RE: Stanley No 9 Does it have an adjustable throat? It is a very early one... possibly pre WWI I think... Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 U.S. Toll-Free Order Line (877) 452-2420 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message----- Subject: Stanley No 9 All, I recently picked up an old all metal Stanley #9 at a yard sale. Other thanmost of the black paint having wore off it seems in good shape with littlerust and has what would appear to be the original blade in good condition.Not knowing a great deal about old planes, I assuming this is a rabbitplane. Not counting the handle, the bed is 8 1/4" long and 1 1/4" wide. Ithas the small attachment with the flat sole on the side near the front thatraises and lowers. The blade hold down has a B on the underside and theblade has Stanley Rule and Level Co. New Britain, Conn. stamped on it. Cananyone tell me about this model, i.e. the period it was made etc. TIA Wayne from lblan@provide.net Thu Dec 20 18:20:21 2001 fBL0KKt00421 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:20:20 - for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:20:19 - Subject: RE: Stanley No 9 http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan2.htm Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:45 PM Subject: Stanley No 9 All, I recently picked up an old all metal Stanley #9 at a yard sale. Other than most of the black paint having wore off it seems in good shape with little rust and has what would appear to be the original blade in good condition. Not knowing a great deal about old planes, I assuming this is a rabbit plane. Not counting the handle, the bed is 8 1/4" long and 1 1/4" wide. It has the small attachment with the flat sole on the side near the front that raises and lowers. The blade hold down has a B on the underside and the blade has Stanley Rule and Level Co. New Britain, Conn. stamped on it. Can anyone tell me about this model, i.e. the period it was made etc. TIA Wayne from channer@frontier.net Thu Dec 20 18:30:11 2001 fBL0UAt00968 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:30:10 - Subject: Re: Stanley Isn't Square Kyle;This is a classic example of how far Stanley has fallen from the qualitylevel it used to maintain. I have a 60 1/2 that has the same problem, itis because the part of the body the blade rests on where it comes outisn't ground correctly, mine has more metal on one side than the other.I do hereby warn one and all about planes(even name brands) purchasednew at flea markets! Fortunately for me, I bought this marvelous pieceof work years ago to use on the job(carpenter), not for rodmaking, so itis no big deal to me, at least it was cheap. Kyle, take the blade outand look at the edge of the opening where the blade sits, it should bean even sharp edge all the way across, if it isn't, either toss it orget out a file and fix it.John KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I bought a new Stanley 9 1/2. I soled the plane and grooved it. I sandedthe blade slide area where it exits the plane. I bought a new Hock blade, andsharpened it on the water stone, and flattened the backside. Before I usethe plane, I sight the blade so that it is even (parallel) with the sole and at adepth that will produce the desired cut. I do this using the lateral adjustmentand the depth adjustment. This has worked fine for me, but I am a littleworried because the blade isn't square to the throat opening. If I lookstraight down on top of the plane, the edge of the blade is not square to thethroat, but is at an angle. Seems like the edge of the blade should be parallelwith the throat. It looks like one side of the blade should extend deeper onthe sole than the other side, producing and angled cut. However, this doesn'thappen, I can plane down to the forms and produce equal sided cross-sections. Should I be worried about this, and is this normal? IMRR - is my rod ruined? Thanks, Kyle Merry Christmas everyone! from flyfish@defnet.com Thu Dec 20 18:34:58 2001 fBL0Yvt01314 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:34:57 - for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:34:56 -0500 Subject: Re:Bamboo quality Your probably right. I didn't stop to consider the source of the bamboo.best regardsTony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Harry bamboo.best regardsTony Miller www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com=/bambooovens/home.html from harms1@pa.net Thu Dec 20 18:44:39 2001 fBL0ict01758 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:44:39 - Subject: Re: Bamboo quality Tony, It is really interesting to read some of the old authors on rod-making, likePerry Frazer (in 1908) or George Parker Holden (in 1920). They offer a rareglimpse into the early days, shortly after "Tonkin" cane became available in1897. Even Holden remains on the skeptical side of using Tonkin cane as asubstitute for really good Calcutta. "Calcutta" cane had been used in England and America for more than acenturyprior to this, but not until Samuel Phillippe (in 1863) was a six-strip flyrod built entirely of cane--both butt and tip. Previously, the buttsections had always been built from any of a dozen different woods, whilethe tips, although usually cane, were built in three or four strips and thenrounded-off. Calcutta cane was surely the preferred material until the early part of the20th century (after Demarest began to import Tonkin). Of course, thosewerealso the days of the wet fly, with rod lengths well in excess of 9 1/2 feet.The limber flexing of Calcutta was just fine for those purposes. AfterGordon and La Branche, when attention turned to fishing the dry-fly, oneneeded shorter, lighter and faster rods, and the newly available Tonkincane, was perfect. Even so, many makers continued to use the Calcutta,presumably because they thought it to be more "traditional," or becausethey MEANT to be making wet-fly rods, or because they thought it to bemoreattractive (with its slashing burn-marks), or because it was cheaper, orbecause it was easier to plane, or... . But Calcutta is not a species, it is only the name of the city from whichany number of species of Indian cane was shipped to the Western World. Forthat matter, "Tonkin" is not a species either, but is just a trade- nameassigned (inaccurately, at that) to the general region of China where it isgrown. Tonkin cane does not come from Tonkin at all (although, to make theconcession, it could be said that it sort of comes out of the Gulf ofTonkin). Tonkin cane was first "discovered" for the Western World in 1897 by CharlesDemarest. The cane was found in Hong Kong, already harvested. Shipmentsbegan at once and continued, but it was not until 1925 that F.A. McClurelocated the actual growing area and assigned a scientific name to thespecies. Luis Marden's recent book, "Angler's Bamboo" gives a pretty completepicture of much of this, including some useful observations on thedifferences between Calcutta and Tonkin canes. Interesting stuff, in all. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo quality I just did a favor for a friend .He wanted me to line his new bar with Bamboo culms.It looked very good when we finished.But we used an inexpensive bamboo and I got my first look at what thedifference betweenTonkin and Calcutta Bamboo was. Way less power fibers and the thicknesswasvery thin compared to Tonkin.(even on the Butt section) I was a littlesurprised though. I didn't really think that the difference would have beenso great because I'm under the understanding that Calcutta was used in themaking of some older trade rods. There is a definite advantage to the Tonkinwe rod makers use. I guess I just never really compared.I took it for granted ,but always wondered. Has anyone made any rods fromCalcutta?Tony Miller www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlwww.homestead.com/bambooovens/home.html from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Dec 20 19:43:18 2001 fBL1hHt03115 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:43:17 - 0000 Subject: Re: Agate Guides Dan, Let me know how it works!! tom----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Agate Guides Tom,Thanks for sending out your and consolidating the infoon making agate guides.An idea was passed on to me from a rock-hound, for a "cheapcore drill". I have all the materials but have yet to try it. He mentionedit would not work as fast as a true diamond core drill, but would get thejob done.In summary, it uses steel tubing with square teeth cut in one end. This is thedrill. Use silicon carbide (60 grit) dust/water slurry as a diamond dustsubstituteworking as a pumice. Choose the 2 steel tubes dia for the appropriatedimensionsof the agate ring desired.Afix the "drill" in the drill press, put a 1/2 teaspoon of pumiceon thebusiness end and grind away. Go slow in order for the drill not to "walk".Change out the pumice when no bite is taking place. Go slower whenalmost at end, orDo you think it would work? He's been in the business along time, and knew all the hardness (Moh's) between agate versus the materialssuggested. Oh yeah, make sure you drill the ring hole (smaller dia.) first, then justchange out the drill bit to the outer ring dia., a mistake only to be madeonce..... (until I forget) in a while [:)] Dan At 17:59 17/12/2001 -0500, Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Barry,I recently started making my own. I'm working on an article w/ pictures for Powerfibers. David Rinker wrote a short tutorial not long ago to the list. I pasted it below. After that, i included a jig clarification proc.This is what I used as my starting point. For core drills I used1/2" Lapcraft core drill and a 1/4" core drill. this gives you a ring 3/8" OD, 1/4" ID. The lapcraft drills are expensive ($35), the other drills Iused were $5 - 10. Kingsley North has a website with pictures of the core drills. I drill under water. I went through tons of agate to get a dozen or so rings, I have a long way to go on technique. Drill slow and seeDavid's procedure regarding jig because you have to drill from both sides. I got my agate from a wholesaler, 100 slabs (1/8") thick for $50. Probable 75% were useful. I put the ring on a wood mandrel in the lathe and form the outside with a diamond file. Chamfer the inside with a diamond bur in the lathe. Polish with diamond paste.All other stuff, 18 ga. Nickel silver wire and nickel silver bezel I got from Kingsely or Alpha I forget. Alpha also has a decent website. For solder I use Stay Brite, melts at 450 degrees F. The bezel pusher, whichforms the bezel around the stone, I made from brass. Basically, I made atapered hole in the center of two pieces of brass round stock, like a die. I make a ring the same OD as the agate ring, press it over the agate ringand put between the two pieces of brass and tap with a hammer. It bends the sides over the ring. The frame is straight forward. Solder it all together and there you go. I blacken mine, they come out nice.The rings are by far the most difficult to master. The drills are not cheap and I did dull one, that is why I now drill under water. The rest ispractice. This has been a very time consuming project, but like fly tying, once you get it, things go ok. Its getting past the first couple that look like hell. If you want more info feel free to ask. Good LuckTom. from wkifer@harborside.com Thu Dec 20 20:04:05 2001 fBL244t03754 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:04:04 - 0000 Subject: Stanley --=======56C5DA2======= ascii; format=flowed Guys,My mistake. it's a No 191 Rabbet Plane. 1886-1962 Wayne --=======56C5DA2=======-- from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Dec 20 23:13:09 2001 fBL5D8t07236 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:13:09 - 20 Dec 2001 21:13:08 PST Subject: Re: Attachement Sizes yes, that was a big one. since it arrived unannouced iwas suspicios and deleted it immediately. timothy --- blue fin wrote: Can we get some regulation on the size ofattachementsthat are placed on the list server? Not everyone hascable modem. Thanks for the consideration !!!!! Merry Christmas to all and FLAME AWAY TO THOSE THATWISH !!!! BF __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions forall ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy athttp://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from martinrjensen@attbi.com Thu Dec 20 23:15:25 2001 fBL5FPt07494 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:15:25 - ;Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:15:19 +0000 Subject: RE: Attachement Sizes Organization: wish I had some I thought that in general, attachments were frowned upon? But,.....If an attachment is kept to 150k or so, that shouldn't be toobad. That is the size of large email messages and should take no morethan 5 minutes on (even) a really slow modem to download. Anything overthat size, I would send to a requesting individual only instead of thelist. If you are sending a picture remember to save it in really lowresolution. Computer screens cannot display with any greater picturequality, high resolution pictures. All that does is make the file sizelarger. A decent picture (jpg) probably doesn't need to be over about 70K or so in file size for viewing on a monitor. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Attachement Sizes Can we get some regulation on the size of attachementsthat are placed on the list server? Not everyone hascable modem. Thanks for the consideration !!!!! Merry Christmas to all and FLAME AWAY TO THOSE THATWISH !!!! BF __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all ofyour unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.comor bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Thu Dec 20 23:29:07 2001 fBL5T5t08072 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:29:05 - forged)) fBL5Tbma011803 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:29:37 -0600 Subject: Attachment Size You can limit the size of files you download in your email. If you areusing Outlook you can go to Tools/Options/Mail Delivery and specify the sizeof files you don't want to download. I'm sure that other mail programs havethe same feature. I hope this helps. Darrin CurtisSan Antonio TX from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Dec 20 23:47:14 2001 fBL5lEt08592 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:47:14 - Subject: Re: Stanley Isn't Square John, u da man, right you were! The blade contact area on the body had one side higher than the other. I guess that's what I get for buying Chinese made tools. The $25 difference between the Stanley and the Record looked good at the time, but I haveeasily spent 5 or 6 hours "tuning" up this bad boy. Guess my time is worth less than minimum wage these days, sure can tell that by the $0.50 year endbonus I got this year. I filed down the blade contact area so that it was even all the way across. The blade now aligns square to the throat after it has been sighted parallel to the sole. Thank you. Kyle In a message dated 12/20/2001 4:30:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, channer@frontier.net writes: Kyle;This is a classic example of how far Stanley has fallen from the qualitylevel it used to maintain. I have a 60 1/2 that has the same problem, itis because the part of the body the blade rests on where it comes outisn't ground correctly, mine has more metal on one side than the other.I do hereby warn one and all about planes(even name brands) purchasednew at flea markets! Fortunately for me, I bought this marvelous pieceof work years ago to use on the job(carpenter), not for rodmaking, so itis no big deal to me, at least it was cheap. Kyle, take the blade outand look at the edge of the opening where the blade sits, it should bean even sharp edge all the way across, if it isn't, either toss it orget out a file and fix it.JohnKyleDruey@aol.com wrote:I bought a new Stanley 9 1/2. I soled the plane and grooved it. I sanded the blade slide area where it exits the plane. I bought a new Hock blade, and sharpened it on the water stone, and flattened the backside. Before I use the plane, I sight the blade so that it is even (parallel) with the sole and at a depth that will produce the desired cut. I do this using the lateral adjustment and the depth adjustment. This has worked fine for me, but I am a little worried because the blade isn't square to the throat opening. If I look straight down on top of the plane, the edge of the blade is not square to the throat, but is at an angle. Seems like the edge of the blade should be parallel with the throat. It looks like one side of the blade should extend deeper on the sole than the other side, producing and angled cut. However, this doesn't happen, I can plane down to the forms and produce equal sided cross-sections. Should I be worried about this, and is this normal?IMRR - is my rod ruined?Thanks,KyleMerry Christmas everyone!-- --------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (rly-yg03.mail.aol.com Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:30:42 -0500Received: from cadmium.frontier.net (cadmium.frontier.net 1220193018; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:30:18 -0500