FILETIME=[C0170BF0:01C19A33] Folks, dumb question. If I am buying reemers for ferrule making, do I need sizes beyond the sizes I am making the ferrules in? In other words, if I make a 14 ferrule, I will need a 14/64, plus the next size up or down for the other ends, right? Sorry for the question. Long day and my brain is on vacation. Rob Clarke _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from briansr@point-net.com Thu Jan 10 18:11:28 2002 g0B0BSW21362 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:11:28 - g0B0JAU29108; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:19:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Fw: Pilots vs Air Control Hi JohnUnfortunately your attchement didn't open.I would've enjoyed seeing =something sent from someone who drives around in an A/C painted like a =bowling shoe .Cheers Brian Hi JohnUnfortunately your attchement didn't open.I = = Cheers Brian from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Jan 10 19:11:34 2002 g0B1BXW23023 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:11:33 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: bamboo 4t Perfectionist. Make two tips and make one 5 wt and one 4 wt. Brian Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 5:42 PMSubject: RE: bamboo 4t The Sir D would be a good start. I think the Driggs performs well in =the wind and is a bit heavier, could throw a 5 as well. The =Perfectionist is a great all arounder, a bit heavier than you requested.Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:20 PM Subject: bamboo 4t I am just about ready to start building my first bamboo rod, and =need some help. I really like it to be a 4 wt. so am asking for any =suggestions as to which are the best bamboo rods in 4 wt we know of. =Now gthe the questions, fishing the rivers of Northern Minnesota and =Western Wis, and yes we do have our windy days. thanks Lew =boyko@proplepc.com = wt and one 4 wt. Brian ----- Original Message ----- Maulucci Sent: Thursday, January 10, = PMSubject: RE: bamboo 4t would be a good start. I think the Driggs performs well in the wind = bit heavier, could throw a 5 as well. The Perfectionist is a great all = arounder, a bit heavier than you requested.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= = BoykoSent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:20 = RodmakersSubject: bamboo 4tI am just about ready to start = wt. so am asking for any suggestions as to which are the best bamboo = Northern Minnesota and Western Wis, and yes we do have our windy = from piscator@macatawa.org Thu Jan 10 19:18:43 2002 g0B1IgW23464 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:18:42 - for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:19:46 - Subject: Got Cork? Sorry for the bandwidth, but if you were part of the cork order from =last fall, they called to day and said they are shipping on Monday! = Contact me off list to confirm your shipping info. I'll send it on =ASAP. Brian Sorry for the bandwidth, but if you = the cork order from last fall, they called to day and said they are = Contact me off list to confirm your = Brian from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan 10 19:20:51 2002 g0B1KoW23673 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:20:50 - Subject: RE: reemers Hi Rob:I would use a 13/64 drill bit, and then 14/64 reamer to make a male 14/64ferrule (and the female end that fits to bamboo).I would use a 14/64 drill bit and then 15/64, and 16/64 straight flutedchucking reamers to make a female 14/64th ferrule.This works for me when I make ferrules from barstock. I do not know firsthand about how making ferrules from tubing would be different. I will behonest and say that since getting $20 (full 2/2) sets from Tony Larson, Imake very few ferrules as of late. It takes me a long time to make them, itis not worth my time unless I can do better than what I can buy. I cannot.Best regards, Bob PS. I have no financial interest in these ferrules. I must admit that if hestops producing them because of lack of sales, I would be upset. -----Original Message----- Subject: reemers Folks, dumb question. If I am buying reemers for ferrule making, do I needsizes beyond the sizes I am making the ferrules in? In other words, if Imake a 14 ferrule, I will need a 14/64, plus the next size up or down forthe other ends, right? Sorry for the question. Long day and my brain is on vacation. Rob Clarke _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Jan 10 19:20:53 2002 g0B1KqW23677 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:20:52 - Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:20:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Turning Ferrule Stations with Hand Drill FILETIME=[2E832100:01C19A3E] I would bet that more handles are turned on drills than by any other method.The only way to know is to try it and see for yourself. I would watch forunevenness- it can be hard to keep it concentric. Not to discourage you, butwhen I switched to a lathe I felt that my cork handles increased in quality.You could see the difference. This could have been due to the fact that Icould turn the cork much faster with more torque. One thing that might make it easier is to glue up your rings with titebondon a mandrel (a 1/4 inch steel rod ). It goes into the chuck easily, and thenarrow rod is easy to brace.The glue holds the cork well, but it is easy toremove after turning (drill a hole in the bench, drop in the rod, and tapgently with a mallet). Do not try this with any other glue- it will stickeven if you coat the rod with beeswax or paraffin. Then you have to heatthe rod and hope you don't burn the cork too badly. After removing the rod,open it up with a reamer, again being careful not to overbore the area wherethe rod end of the cork meets the rod. I did this a lot, and ended upordering an abundance of winding checks to hide the seam. Jeff Schaeffer from richjez@enteract.com Thu Jan 10 19:23:13 2002 g0B1NDW24101 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:23:13 -0600 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Homebrew --=====================_11027414==_.ALT I hope you aren't talking about my home made wine. You spoke highly of itthen.Rich At 10:00 AM 1/10/02, Tony Young wrote: It's not just beer philistines there are some wine ones too. I carted a couple of bottles of some pretty damn nice Taylors and Penfold reds all over the US just to have at Greyling.The food was good. A chilli spaghetti from memory.If I recall correctly most of ALL the wine wound up on the picnic table, some was dunk (very little) and some was *gulped* probably while holding one's breath.You know who you are out there so I wont name names but I hope you have serious regrets about what happened that day.To rub salt into the wound I was presented with a bottle of strawberry "wine" by way of returning the thought.Does anybody know what happened to that bottle of strawberry "wine"? I imagine somebody needed to strip some paint or degrease their engine and it came in handy.What bothers me is it was probably the only wine to actually get drunk!!! Tony At 09:22 AM 1/10/02 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: I wondered how long the Listmeister could remain silent on the subject ofbrewing.Most of you guys have no idea the great quality brew that Mike brings tothegatherings. Even the Beer Philistines drink up Mike's offering, which is whyit goes so fast. It seems a shame to waste such good tonic on thoseunrefined palates, but hey, maybe they learn a thing or two besidesrodmaking, and in the process develop those palates. ;o) M-D /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_11027414==_.ALT I hope you aren't talking about my home made wine. You spokehighly of it then.Rich At 10:00 AM 1/10/02, Tony Young wrote:It's not just beer philistines there are somewine ones too. I carted a couple of bottles of some pretty damn niceTaylors and Penfold reds all over the US just to have at Greyling.The food was good. A chilli spaghetti from memory.If I recall correctly most of ALL the wine wound up on the picnic table,some was dunk (very little) and some was *gulped* probably while holdingone's breath.You know who you are out there so I wont name names but I hope you haveserious regrets about what happened that day.To rub salt into the wound I was presented with a bottle of strawberry"wine" by way of returning the thought. "wine"? I imagine somebody needed to strip some paint ordegrease their engine and it came in handy.What bothers me is it was probably the only wine to actually getdrunk!!! Tony At 09:22 AM 1/10/02 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote:I wondered how long the Listmeister couldremain silent on the subject ofbrewing.Most of you guys have no idea the great quality brew that Mike brings tothegatherings. Even the Beer Philistines drink up Mike's offering, which iswhyit goes so fast. It seems a shame to waste such good tonic on thoseunrefined palates, but hey, maybe they learn a thing or two besidesrodmaking, and in the process develop those palates. ;o) M- D/*************************************************************************/AV Young www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ --=====================_11027414==_.ALT-- from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Jan 10 19:29:39 2002 g0B1TcW24572 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:29:38 -0600 Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:29:33 -0800 , , Subject: Re: was that ferrules? FILETIME=[6C59B4C0:01C19A3F] Kyle and the list, I just realized that your post dealt with turning ferrules. Please ignorethe detailedinstructions I posted for turning cork handles. You can all flame me for this one- I deserve it.. My only excuse is that Ispent 8 hours today debugging and verifying an 1110 line SAS program, andthen came home and had to install a sink. Every solder joint held but one,and that one was the hardest one to re-solder. Then the bread I pushed intothe hole to keep away leakage stopped every kitchen appliance. Then mydaughter opened the upstairs faucet just as I was looking directly into apipe, and about 5 gallons of water poured out. Bob Nunley, move over. jeff schaeffer from jojo@ipa.net Thu Jan 10 20:25:06 2002 g0B2P6W26311 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:25:06 -0600 helo=default) id 16OrNM-0000uH-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:25:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Fw: Pilots vs Air Control Try opening it in Notepad. M-D Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:10 PMSubject: Re: Fw: Pilots vs Air Control Hi JohnUnfortunately your attchement didn't open.I would've enjoyed seeing =something sent from someone who drives around in an A/C painted like a =bowling shoe .Cheers Brian Notepad. M-D ----- Original Message ----- sturrock Sent: Thursday, January 10, = PM Control Hi JohnUnfortunately your attchement didn't open.I = Cheers =Brian from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Thu Jan 10 20:58:36 2002 g0B2wZW27113 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:58:35 - for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 23:02:56 -0500 Subject: Re: homebrew, etc. Off subject but I couldn't hold it any longer. While I don't make myown, the mass market stuff is abysmal - How is American mass-market beer like making love in a canoe? They're both f****ing near water ! from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Jan 10 21:25:04 2002 g0B3P4W27849 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:25:04 - Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:24:58 -0800 Subject: Re: bamboo 4t FILETIME=[8C0FBCA0:01C19A4F] I like the 7 foot Dickerson. Many of the Dickerson tapers have very =stiff butts, but this taper is more moderate, and fishes beautifully. =But so many have praised the Sir D that you should consider it. Jeff Schaeffer I like the 7 foot Dickerson. Many of = tapers have very stiff butts, but this taper is more moderate, and = beautifully. But so many have praised the Sir D that you should consider = it. Jeff =Schaeffer from b2g@jps.net Thu Jan 10 22:53:28 2002 g0B4rRW29796 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:53:27 - helo=default) id 16Otgu-0004mT-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:53:21 -0800 Subject: RE: Wrap Finishing: Rotating vs. Hanging To start out I just hung dried the rods to let the varnish on the wraps cureand didn't have much trouble. Then I just lightly sanded off the varnishruns if I had any. But on this last rod that I did the coating on the wrapsdidn't come out the cleanest shape and they look horrible. To make a longstory short I had to cut off the wraps and redo the rod. At that point Ibarrowed a rod tuner from a great friend and that sure made the world ofdifference. I think the rod turner is the way to go. Currently I amlooking for the components to build one for myself right now, along with allthe other projects I am working on. Robert H. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wrap Finishing: Rotating vs. Hanging Rich;I don't own anything to turn a rod with, except my hand. I just hang emand let em be, but don't just glom the varnish on.john RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: I've been rotating the rod while the varnish on the wraps dry. Can I skipthis step and just hang the sections instead? Will the varnish run,especially long- drying spar? --Rich from rodwrapp@swbell.net Thu Jan 10 23:50:15 2002 g0B5oEW01047 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 23:50:14 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Wrap Finishing: Rotating vs. Hanging I have 2 rodturners but I turn my bamboo rods by hand, and use my turners ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Wrap Finishing: Rotating vs. Hanging To start out I just hung dried the rods to let the varnish on the wraps cure and didn't have much trouble. Then I just lightly sanded off the varnishruns if I had any. But on this last rod that I did the coating on the wraps didn't come out the cleanest shape and they look horrible. To make a longstory short I had to cut off the wraps and redo the rod. At that point Ibarrowed a rod tuner from a great friend and that sure made the world ofdifference. I think the rod turner is the way to go. Currently I amlooking for the components to build one for myself right now, along with all the other projects I am working on. Robert H. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:23 AMCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Wrap Finishing: Rotating vs. Hanging Rich;I don't own anything to turn a rod with, except my hand. I just hang emand let em be, but don't just glom the varnish on.john RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: I've been rotating the rod while the varnish on the wraps dry. Can I skip this step and just hang the sections instead? Will the varnish run,especially long-drying spar? --Rich from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Jan 11 03:17:27 2002 g0B9HPW03460 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 03:17:26 -0600 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Homebrew Definately not. This was some stuff that came with a pretty label and a price on it of around $1.95 or something like that. I guess they need to get the price of the bottle back some way anyhow. I think this stuff had a brand. No, your wine was great. I think the strawberry and apple was best but both were pretty nice. Tony At 05:00 PM 1/10/02 -0600, Rich Jezioro wrote: I hope you aren't talking about my home made wine. You spoke highly of it then.Rich At 10:00 AM 1/10/02, Tony Young wrote: It's not just beer philistines there are some wine ones too. I carted a couple of bottles of some pretty damn nice Taylors and Penfold reds all over the US just to have at Greyling.The food was good. A chilli spaghetti from memory.If I recall correctly most of ALL the wine wound up on the picnic table, some was dunk (very little) and some was *gulped* probably while holding one's breath.You know who you are out there so I wont name names but I hope you have serious regrets about what happened that day.To rub salt into the wound I was presented with a bottle of strawberry "wine" by way of returning the thought.Does anybody know what happened to that bottle of strawberry "wine"? I imagine somebody needed to strip some paint or degrease their engine and it came in handy.What bothers me is it was probably the only wine to actually get drunk!!! Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Jan 11 06:18:21 2002 g0BCIKW04937 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:18:20 -0600 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:18:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Brew But Lew, likethey say, once tried, you'll never go back......Mark At 04:11 PM 1/10/2002 -0800, you wrote:Okay,Okay, I have hasd enoughj...I dont want you guys to think that I wouldnot drink your home brew if you offered it to me, I just thought buy buy chance to get to one of these outings, I would love to samle each and can get into making my own brew, but just never got the time. dont be to hardon me, I just really like MGD, for the time beinganyway..Lew from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Jan 11 06:33:02 2002 g0BCX1W05277 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:33:01 -0600 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:33:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Tops from an instrument maker Brian, That doesn't sound familiar, but we moved from there in 1995, so it may have opened after we left. Dunno. Hopland is located on Rte. 101, about an hour and a half or so up from the Bay Bridge. It's about 15 minutes south of Ukiah. We lived up in Willits, home of the World Famous "Skunk Train"!!!!!! What, you've never heard of the Skunk Train? My Gawd Man! Mark At 08:14 PM 1/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: Is that near Hopkiln Winery?----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:57 AMSubject: Re: Tops from an instrument maker Claude, Yep, that be the place. I used to live up in N. Calififi, up inMendocino County. The Hopland Brewery, located in of all places,Hopland,CA makes a mighty fine hoppy ale called Red Tail Ale, along with a fewother ones. The last time I got a sixer of SNCA here in Maryland, it wasabout $9.99. I really enjoyed taking tours of the Sierra Nevadabrewery. The sampling at the end was jush abit of fun. Honnesh,ossifer,I only had two beers....... mark At 10:19 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: At 8:02 AM -0500 on 1/10/02, Mark Wendt wrote about Re: Tops fromaninstrument maker Tom, It must be the 10 gallon batches that you save money on. I brew all grain also, but only in the 5 gallon batches. After spending around $20 for the grain bill, another $4 for the hops (yeah, I'm a hophead..... ;^}), and another $2 -$3 for the yeast, it's costing me about$13 a case. But I guess it is a money savings, considering a case ofSierra Nevada Celebration ale is around $40........ I was just out in Calif. during the holidays...cost for SNCA averaged$6.49/6pack. Mark, where are you located? I notice NRL in your email address - is that the NRL just South of DC along I-295? Claude from ctcaneman@yahoo.com Fri Jan 11 07:02:45 2002 g0BD2iW05730 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:02:44 -0600 11 Jan 2002 05:02:44 PST Subject: Refinishing old rod Hello all, I purchased an old rod, no labels to identify it, only$20.00. It needs to be completely redone, cork isbadly chipped, reel seat dented, guides rusty and twomissing. Bamboo looks in good condition though. My question is best place to purchase the parts,looking at the web two pop up, fisrt is Goldenwitchand then REC. I was leaning towards REC for price, anyrecommendations/ preferences? Thanks in advance, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Fri Jan 11 07:10:36 2002 g0BDAZW06046 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:10:35 -0600 Subject: Tape on glued-up blanks After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla PU setup, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the blank whilebinding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything came out OKand the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, then slitthe tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll it back up andproceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied about every 12" to18". One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and justbound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open joints? Your tips and thoughts? Thanks, Kurt ClementNixa, MO from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Jan 11 07:29:14 2002 g0BDTDW06592 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:29:13 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2111.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA12639; ETAuAhUAqS2t+8F0mm+BVaF0pzVts6kND2UCFQCmfmldrWHrlqX5e+SDXrzePkNM+g== Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks 11 Jan 2002 7:08:00 -0500 Kurt - Look at your local discout store for the blue colored tape thatis not quite so sticky. I keep an old bodkin handy and use the needle tostart unwrapping at the corner of the slit. I don't think you would want to put a section in the oven leaving thetape on.......that would be ugly. JY from earsdws@duke.edu Fri Jan 11 07:59:27 2002 g0BDxQW07295 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:59:26 -0600 g0BDxN623309; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: any new thoughts on glued-up blanks? How about a survey of group members on how they hang glued up blanks ANDhow much straightening is required afterwards? Thanks, dws. from Bamboomaker@aol.com Fri Jan 11 08:00:52 2002 g0BE0qW07480 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:00:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Turning Ferrule Stations with Hand Drill Kyle, I built my first dozen rods with the help of a cordless hand drill. During my prelathe period I needed a way to turn corks and to prep ferrules. This did meet my needs well. I initially tried it with a corded hand drill but I thought that the speed and power was a bit much to handle without the security of stability. With a cordless hand drill I was able to get speeds low to help rough out cork grips as well as to finish them. Prepping ferrules was a snap with a cordless drill- i used the poor man's method of a modified reverse drill bit with a ferrule mounted to the shank and the cutting edge chucked up. I'll have to admit that I still prep my ferrules this way even though I have a nice lathe. One tip given to me by Tony Larson is to buy a cheap set of import pin gauges. I bought a 'minus' set and use about 3 of the 120 in the set as they fit my commonly used ferrule sizes. Chuck this up in the cordless hand drill and then mount your ferrule snugly to this. Sand/polish accordingly. Despite all the growing machinery in my basement (it is funny to buy a fancy lathe to use it about 10-20 minutes/80 hours/rod = or about 0.2-0.4% ofthe time to make a rod), I still prep my ferrule stations by hand. Hope that this helps. Mark Mark C. Lee, MDRochester, MN from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Jan 11 08:17:39 2002 g0BEHdW08174 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:17:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks Well I have left the tape on (by oversight) and the sectionin question came out acceptable. I only tape in three places,either end and the center of the section using 1/2 wide tape.I also keep an exatco knife and blade at the binder for cutting thread and helping in the removal of the tape. I try to remove the tape when it is being supported by the first set of craddles on the binder(I use a Garrison style). Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/11/02 at 8:29 AM jerryy@webtv.net wrote:. I keep an old bodkin handy and use the needle to start unwrapping at the corner of the slit. from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 11 08:34:47 2002 g0BEYkW09020 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:34:46 -0600 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks Kurt,I use the blue tape and keep a supply of round toothpicks handy. When I wrap I have one nearby that I use to slide under the tape and start it off so I can grab it with my fingers and finish removing it. The toothpicks are disposable, no cleanup, and are soft enough I don't gouge the cane. I use the Nyatex glue. This seems to loosen the grip of the tape as well. I don't know if other glues affect the tape adhesive differently.Jon At 07:08 AM 1/11/2002 -0500, Kurt Clement wrote: After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla PU set up, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the blank while binding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything came out OK and the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, then slit the tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll it back up and proceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied about every 12" to 18". One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and just bound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open joints? Your tips and thoughts? Thanks,Kurt ClementNixa, MO from cw@vanion.com Fri Jan 11 09:08:53 2002 g0BF8qW11054 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:08:52 -0600 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:13:40 -0700 Subject: ROD TURNING MOTOR I just finished a fiberglass blank and needed a turning motor. Found one =thru Micro-Mark, www.micromark.com, #82090, 4 rpm, @ $12.95. It has =mounting flange, so made a simple wood stand and a pvc cap holder like =you see in Clemens. Works great. Will try a varnish method with it on =bamboo also. This motor would work for dip tube puller too. Has built-in =switch on 6ft cord.Chad I just finished a fiberglass blank = #82090, 4 = $12.95. It has mounting flange, so made a simple wood stand and a pvc = like you see in Clemens. Works great. Will try a varnish method with it = bamboo also. This motor would work for dip tube puller too. Has built-in = on 6ft cord.Chad from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jan 11 09:20:22 2002 g0BFKKW11777 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:20:20 -0600 helo=default) id 16P3Tb-0004Wu-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:20:15 -0500 Subject: Re: any new thoughts on glued-up blanks? I hang glued blanks in my drying cabinet. I have some plastic sleeving thatworks like Chinese handcuffs, and I slip this over the blank. I try to getthe glued blanks so straight beforehand that I have to do little, if any,straightening afterwards. M-D How about a survey of group members on how they hang glued up blanksAND how much straightening is required afterwards? Thanks, dws. from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan 11 09:35:44 2002 g0BFZhW12745 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:35:43 -0600 Subject: Re: any new thoughts on glued-up blanks? I recall a statement attributed to WC "Straight is straight." There is no suchthing as partly straight. Also, I havenever really believed that hanging a weighted rod had any effect. Just mythoughts. I like to straighten the rod rightout of the binder. and avoid any post gluing straightening. Ralph earsdws@duke.edu wrote: How about a survey of group members on how they hang glued up blanksAND how much straightening is required afterwards? Thanks, dws. --?IôO from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Jan 11 09:42:49 2002 g0BFgmW13253 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:42:48 -0600 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:42:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks Kurt, I use 3 tapes only on a 48" section - 4 on a 56" section with all 1/2" widemasking tape. There is always some of the glue that seems to sticksomewhere. You "might" get some between the strips hence removal isprudent. catch ya' Don At 07:08 AM 1/11/02 -0500, Kurt Clement wrote: After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla PU setup, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the blank whilebinding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything came out OKand the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, then slitthe tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll it back up andproceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied about every 12" to18". One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and justbound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open joints? Your tips and thoughts? Thanks, Kurt Clement Nixa, MO ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from stoltz10@attbi.com Fri Jan 11 10:11:01 2002 g0BGB0W14953 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:11:00 -0600 Again, thank-you everyone. Best wishes to all. John Cooper from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Jan 12 06:16:47 2002 g0CCGjW04777 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 06:16:46 -0600 g0CCGbW31925; Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Reed Mr Montagne has a real problem with his self-esteem, doesn't he? He has far too much of it! That interview may be the greatest load of horseshit I have waded through inyears, and believe me, I throw out enough personally to fertilise the wholeGobi Desert! Takes one, they say, to know one. But the rest of the website is excellent, as usual; it is one of myfavourite reads, no pun intended. Cheers Peter from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan 12 07:45:41 2002 g0CDjfW05550 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 07:45:41 - "Rodmakers@wugate. Wustl. Edu" Subject: RE: Sir Anthony Blunt Dear John:With all due respect, I am confused as to what this is about, but using alist member's name as the subject line and then mentioning collection agencyseems as if it should be taken off list. If you need a list member's e- mailyou can receive one from the list processor. There should be no need tosolicit anyone and drag a member's name into the dangerous realm of SirConjecture and Sir Hypothesy.Just my opinion. I hope not to offend anyone in sharing it.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Darryl Hayashida I wanted to quickly thank everyone who answered my questions re.contacting Darryl Hayashida via his email alternatives, and the selection ofa collection agency. VERY interesting. Normal0DocumentEmail @page Section1 {size: 612.0pt 792.0pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt =72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 36.0pt; mso-footer-margin: 36.0pt; =mso- paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style- parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size:=10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} John: respect, I am confused as to what this is about, but using a list = as the subject line and then mentioning collection agency seems as if it = be taken off list. If you need a list member's e-mail you can receive = the list processor. There should be no need to solicit anyone and drag a = member's name into the dangerous realm of Sir Conjecture and Sir = sharing it.Bob owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Hayashida wanted to quickly thank everyone who answered my questions re. = Darryl Hayashida via his email alternatives, and the selection of a = agency. VERY interesting. from earsdws@duke.edu Sat Jan 12 08:06:05 2002 g0CE65W05954 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 08:06:05 - g0CE5lQ29566 for ; by webmail.oit.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13591 for Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:05:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Superglue accelerator You can get it in LARGE quantities at Woodworkers Supply Co (woodworker.com). They sell both cynoacrylate and activator/accelerant in 8oz (and larger, I think) containers. They sell in such quantities because some turners saturate pourous woods and burls to hold them together before turning. Use their cool "view a catalog" feature. It is on page 136 of their current/winter catalog. dws. from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sat Jan 12 08:31:08 2002 g0CEV7W07454 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 08:31:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out g0CEV8W07455 The best about the above mentioned articlewas A.J`s comments, as far as I am concerned. regards, carsten jorgensenwww.daniaflyrods.com from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Jan 12 08:54:15 2002 g0CEsEW07931 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 08:54:14 - "Rodmakers@wugate. Wustl. Edu" Subject: RE: Sir Anthony Blunt Yes, I think the list is owed an explanation! Not to be too Blunt. -Doug At 08:45 AM 1/12/2002 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas- microsoft-com:office:word">Dear John:With all due respect, I am confused as to what this is about, but using a list member's name as the subject line and then mentioning collection agency seems as if it should be taken off list. If you need a list member's e-mail you can receive one from the list processor. There should be no need to solicit anyone and drag a member's name into the dangerous realm of Sir Conjecture and Sir Hypothesy.Just my opinion. I hope not to offend anyone in sharing it.Bob -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of JOCSent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:48 AM Subject: Darryl HayashidaI wanted to quickly thank everyone who answered my questions re. contacting Darryl Hayashida via his email alternatives, and the selection of a collection agency. VERY interesting. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan 12 09:02:33 2002 g0CF2WW08232 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:02:32 -0600 Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out AJ, Carsten:This was a fascinating post (AJ's). I humbly agree that you can probably geta lot out of having a 10" tip design and then shooting to fill in the rest.This info below is what I am trying to do to design some more quad tapers. Ihave always felt that Ray Gould's discussion of slope and action ( from hisbook) was the most practical approach to design. I am starting to slowlyexperiment with the Powell straight tapers and then fill in the otherfactors in subsequent blanks.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Fascinating article. I think it is time to attack a simple problem such asthe construction of a thermonuculear device! I have to agree with thecomments about computer tapers though, it is apparent that 'something' ismissing when the tapers are reengineered that way. I have cast goodcomputertapers but never a great one. Fortunately most end users can't tell thedifference. My conclusion about the design of tapers by many of the oldmasters is that they knew what they wanted the rod to do(fast, slow, tipaction, evenly loading action, etc.) then picked out the ferrule sizes theyknew would do what needed to be done and filled in the rod in between. Afast 5wt 8ft rod would have a 14 ferrule at about .210-.214 .068 -.072 tipand a .300-.320 but before the swell, slow full working 5 .200-.205ferrule,about a .066 tip and a .290 butt a med fast 4 would be .190 at the ferrule.066 -.068 tip and a 280-290 butt . What happens in between , barringsomething weird isn't all that important. Is M.M. still building? It seems a waste of his obvious talent if he is nolonger building.A.J. from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Jan 12 09:25:08 2002 g0CFP3W09024 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:25:04 -0600 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:18:47 +0100 Subject: Chris Bogart E-mail. g0CFP8W09025 Dear Friends, I lost the e-amil address of Mr. Chris Bogart, can anyone help about the.Sincerely,Marco Boretti from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sat Jan 12 10:05:23 2002 g0CG5HW09849 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:05:23 -0600 Subject: P&M Parabolic Royale 7`4" #5 thread needed g0CG5NW09850 Have this afternoon recieved the above rod for repair. A newtip is needed, as the original had an incident involving a car. So, friends, I need the taper as the last 10 inches of the tip is missing.Furthermore the thread used on the rod is a copperish, metallic thread,probably a Gudebrod 9396???? If anyone has any info, or, indeed,a spool of the right thread, please do contact me. regards, carsten jorgensenwww.daniaflyrods.com from HalManas@aol.com Sat Jan 12 10:25:27 2002 g0CGPQW10289 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:25:26 - Subject: Re: Sir Anthony Blunt Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu List,It all seems obvious to me and it is also obvious that it should be taken off-list! Hal from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jan 12 11:02:19 2002 g0CH2IW10964 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:02:18 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Bob, A good question, one I will pose to him. How did he glue up twistedstrips?Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bob Maulucci wrote: Dear Reed:Thanks for sharing the wonderful article. My head hurts now, and I amgoingnumb from the shoulders up. (I really liked looking at the pictures).All kidding aside, what did he do to get straight blanks? I got lost there.I think he stated that his beveller could cut any sort of bent up strip, buthow did he get them glued up straight?The part about Per Brandin and the beveller was hilarious. I wonder whatPerwould do to a snooper at his shop. Probably pistol whip the guy with a twohanded, hollow built 13 wt.I think Michael Montagne and Bob Milward should get together and see whoscores higher on the Mensa test. First all the Sam Carlson info and nowthis. You are becoming the leading quadrate authority. Wow.Thanks a million,Bob -----Original Message----- from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jan 12 11:04:01 2002 g0CH40W11140 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:04:00 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out John, Mike was being "brief". There is more in the future as well as, hopefully, some pictures of machinery.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ channer wrote: Reed;Please tell me this is just the first installment!!!!!!!Get the wholestory, minute by minute, from the first time he even considered buildinga rod up until he walked away from it for the last time. This was THEmost fascinating article I have ever read, but what a teaser! john from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Jan 12 11:13:28 2002 g0CHDRW11568 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:13:27 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out A.J., I agree, he should be building, and he says he misses it. Apparently his software work takes up 14 hours a day, and that's the way he likes it... Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Allen Thramer wrote: Is M.M. still building? It seems a waste of his obvious talent if he is no longer building.A.J. from barneys@snet.net Sat Jan 12 11:30:09 2002 g0CHU8W12108 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:30:08 -0600 (may be forged)) for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:30:03 -0500 Subject: Gene Edwards rod tapers? II have a bunch of Gene Edwards butt sections for two piece and butt andmid sections for three piece. I'm getting some tips made but can"t find anyof his tapers in the archives. Can anyone out there help me? Thank you,Carl. from Troutgetter@aol.com Sat Jan 12 11:54:57 2002 g0CHsuW12906 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:54:56 -0600 Subject: Re: any new thoughts on glued-up blanks? Adam,Do you keep four adjustable forms in the shop just for this, or do you only glue one rod section at a time?Love you man!MikePS. I would like to place an order for 3 more forms! Now, where did I leave my beer. In a message dated 1/11/2002 10:16:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: No hanging blanks here, no straightening either.I let my blanks dry in the forms correctly adjusted to do so and let dry.Presto Perfect! Adam Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ Adam,Do you keep four adjustable forms in the shop just for this, or do you onlyglue one rod section at a time?Love you man!MikePS. I would like to place an order for 3 more forms! Now, where did I leave mybeer. In a message dated 1/11/2002 10:16:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: No hanging blanks here,no straightening either.I let my blanks dry in the forms correctly adjusted to do so and let dry.Presto Perfect! Adam Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from SBDunn@aol.com Sat Jan 12 11:57:56 2002 g0CHvtW13161 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:57:55 - for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:57:42 - Subject: Thanks - long overdue. I have been a member of this list for 5 or 6 years, though I generally just lurk. During that time a lot of good people have come and gone. I have never met Darryl Hayashida and wouldn't know him if I saw him, but I think the time has come for me to publicly thank him for all the help he has given me (and the list) in the past. Darryl thinks outside the box and (off the top of my head) I believe he originated or popularized the drip tube, using bench planes, heat treated blonde rods, and about a thousandinnovative rodmaking techniques. Furthermore, on the three or four times I've had occasion to write directly to Darryl, he was completely forthcoming with information -- usually going beyond the subject I asked about to include potential problems or benefits down the road. Now, I've never done business with Darryl and I'll admit that something similar to this can be said about many of the list members, but Darryl is a true contributor to this list and I at least owe him a great debt. Thanks, Darryl. Regards, Steve. I have been a member of a lot of good people have come and gone. I have never met Darryl Hayashida and wouldn't know him if I saw him, but Ithink the time has come for me to publicly thank him for all the help he has (off the top of my head) I believe he originated or popularized the drip tube,using bench planes, heat treated blonde rods, and about a thousand times I've had occasion to write directly to Darryl, he was completelyforthcoming with information -- usually going beyond the subject I askedabout to include potential problems or benefits down the road. Now, I've never donebusiness with Darryl and I'll admit that something similar to this can be saidabout many of the list members, but Darryl is a true contributor to this listand I at least owe him a great debt. Thanks, Darryl. Regards, Steve. from FlyfishT@aol.com Sat Jan 12 11:58:42 2002 g0CHwfW13315 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:58:41 -0600 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:58:30 - Subject: nymph rod taper Hi All, I am looking for a rod taper to fish nymphs and emergers on spring creek, a small to mid size stream. I am looking for a 7'6" to 8' 4 or 5-wt rod. I am concidering the P.Y. Perfectionist , Martha Marie. I would really like the nymph jr. P.Y. taper, a 71/2-13-27/8oz. Does anyone have that taper? What tapers do you guys recomend? Thanks, Tom from cathcreek@hotmail.com Sat Jan 12 12:24:34 2002 g0CIOXW14266 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:24:33 - Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:24:27 -0800 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:24:27 GMT Subject: Re: Thanks - long overdue. FILETIME=[5EB25630:01C19B96] From: SBDunn@aol.com Subject: Thanks - long overdue.Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:57:41 EST I have been a member of this list for 5 or 6 years, though I generally justlurk. During that time a lot of good people have come and gone. I have never met Darryl Hayashida and wouldn't know him if I saw him, but Ithink the time has come for me to publicly thank him for all the help he hasgiven me (and the list) in the past. Darryl thinks outside the box and (offthe top of my head) I believe he originated or popularized the drip tube,using bench planes, heat treated blonde rods, and about a thousand innovativerodmaking techniques. Furthermore, on the three or four times I've hadoccasion to write directly to Darryl, he was completely forthcoming withinformation -- usually going beyond the subject I asked about to includepotential problems or benefits down the road. Now, I've never done business with Darryl and I'll admit that somethingsimilar to this can be said about many of the list members, but Darryl is atrue contributor to this list and I at least owe him a great debt. Thanks, Darryl. Regards, Steve. I would agree that Sir D has been great to me on the list. He has provided me with good, solid information when I needed it. I also owe him (and others) a great deal. Rob Robert ClarkeCatherine Creek Rodscathcreek@hotmail.comhttp://ccr_2.tripod.com/bamboo/index.html _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Jan 12 12:29:00 2002 g0CISwW14544 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:28:59 -0600 Subject: Re: nymph rod taper Perfectionist. Tony At 12:58 PM 1/12/02 -0500, FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: Hi All,I am looking for a rod taper to fish nymphs and emergers on spring creek,a small to mid size stream. I am looking for a 7'6" to 8' 4 or 5-wt rod. I amconcidering the P.Y. Perfectionist , Martha Marie. I would really like thenymph jr. P.Y. taper, a 71/2-13-27/8oz. Does anyone have that taper?Whattapers do you guys recomend? Thanks, Tom /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jan 12 12:34:45 2002 g0CIYiW14901 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:34:44 -0600 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 13:34:33 - Subject: Apologies to the list Yes, this is a matter that never should have made it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as far as the list is concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies.Darryl Hayashida Yes,this is a matter that never should have made it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as far as the listis concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies.Darryl Hayashida from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Sat Jan 12 12:46:12 2002 g0CIkBW15430 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:46:11 -0600 MAA27590; KAA23992; g0CIkKW18016; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:46:07 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Apologies to the list this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Darryl, you don't owe any of us an apology, if some one has a personal beefwith you, that doesn't effect us and should not have been brought up on thelist. This is kind of a family and families can't all get along all thetime, squabbles come up from time to time. Shit happens!!! Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Apologies to the list Yes, this is a matter that never should have made it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as far as thelist is concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies.Darryl Hayashida Darryl, you don't owe any of us an apology, ifsome one has a personal beef with you, that doesn't effect us and should not havebeen brought up on the list. This is kind of a family and families can't all get along all the time, squabbles come up from time to time. Shit happens!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair Planning 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: DNHayashida@aol.com 2002 10:35 Apologies to the listYes, this is a matter that never should have made it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as far as the list is concerned.You all have my most sincereapologies.Darryl Hayashida from KyleDruey@aol.com Sat Jan 12 13:36:21 2002 g0CJaKW16564 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 13:36:20 -0600 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:36:06 - Subject: Pinning Ferrules Hi List, I've glued on my ferrules and now I would like to pin them, and the cap on the reel seat. How do I do this? There is varied and incomplete information in the archives, so I have a few questions: -should the pin be located where the wrap is so that it doesn't show? -should the hole be drilled through both sides of the ferrule? -how is the pinning wire inserted? -what is a good pin location for the reel seat cap? Thanks again everyone for all your help, and go 49ers! Kyle from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 12 14:03:06 2002 g0CK35W17325 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:03:05 -0600 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:04:19 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: nymph rod taper " I would really like the nymph jr. P.Y. taper, a 71/2-13-27/8oz. Doesanyonehave that taper? ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a PHYoung taper I don't know about???? How could one slipthrough the crack??? Shawn from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Jan 12 14:55:35 2002 g0CKtYW18771 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:55:34 -0600 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:55:25 -0800 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:55:24 GMT Subject: Re: Pinning Ferrules FILETIME=[75305820:01C19BAB] To answer in order: Location - no! female halfway up the bamboo bore, male through the slide Both Sides - yes! only cheapo rods were pinned through one side How - sharpen the end of the wire with a swiss file and use a pair of electronic pliers Cap - at a 90* angle to the reel slot at the midpoint of the capA.J. From: KyleDruey@aol.com Subject: Pinning FerrulesDate: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:36:05 EST Hi List, I've glued on my ferrules and now I would like to pin them, and the cap onthe reel seat. How do I do this? There is varied and incomplete informationin the archives, so I have a few questions: -should the pin be located where the wrap is so that it doesn't show? -should the hole be drilled through both sides of the ferrule? -how is the pinning wire inserted? -what is a good pin location for the reel seat cap? Thanks again everyone for all your help, and go 49ers! Kyle _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from ddeloach@pcisys.net Sat Jan 12 14:58:11 2002 g0CKwAW18961 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:58:10 -0600 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: Apologies to the list FWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on Darryl's behalf. I don't know him =personally but I've done business with him once, on a group cork order. The rings arrived in good condition, albeit a couple days later than =expected. When I was sifting through the rings I noticed some other =stuff in the bag. A couple of leaders, some extra cork rings and a spool =of rod wrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him that I obviuously must =be in possession of someone elses order. He said no, he threw that stuff =in just for being patient. A very nice gesture that won't soon be forgotten-Don D Subject: RE: Apologies to the list Darryl, you don't owe any of us an apology, if some one has a personal =beef with you, that doesn't effect us and should not have been brought =up on the list. This is kind of a family and families can't all get =along all the time, squabbles come up from time to time. Shit happens!!! -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: Apologies to the list Yes, this is a matter that never should have made it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as =far as the list is concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies. FWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on = on a group cork order. The rings arrived in good condition, = couple days later than expected. When I was sifting through the rings I = some other stuff in the bag. A couple of leaders, some extra cork rings = spool of rod wrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him that I = be in possession of someone elses order. He said no, he threw that stuff = A very nice gesture that won't soon forgotten-Don D ----- Original Message ----- Coffey, Patrick W Sent: Saturday, January 12, = AMSubject: RE: Apologies to the =list Darryl, you don't owe any of us anapology, = one has a personal beef with you, that doesn't effect us and should = been brought up on the list. This is kind of a family and families = happens!!! Patrick W. =Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning =Phone: 425-234-2901 M/C = -----Original Message-----From: = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: = Apologies to the listYes, this is a matter that never should = the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the = from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Sat Jan 12 14:59:37 2002 g0CKxbW19134 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:59:37 -0600 MAA03522; OAA18289; g0CKxhW29217; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:59:31 -0800 "Coffey, Patrick W" , DNHayashida@aol.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Apologies to the list this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. that's just the kind of guy he is and has been to all ofus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Apologies to the list FWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on Darryl's behalf. I don't know himpersonally but I've done business with him once, on a group cork order. The rings arrived in good condition, albeit a couple days later thanexpected. When I was sifting through the rings I noticed some other stuff inthe bag. A couple of leaders, some extra cork rings and a spool of rodwrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him that I obviuously must be inpossession of someone elses order. He said no, he threw that stuff in just A very nice gesture that won't soon be forgotten-Don D ----- Original Message ----- 'DNHayashida@aol.com' ;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent:Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:46 AMSubject: RE: Apologies to the list Darryl, you don't owe any of us an apology, if some one has a personal beefwith you, that doesn't effect us and should not have been brought up on thelist. This is kind of a family and families can't all get along all thetime, squabbles come up from time to time. Shit happens!!! Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Apologies to the list Yes, this is a matter that never should have made it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as far as thelist is concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies.Darryl Hayashida that's just the kind of guy he is and has been to all of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair Planning 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: Don DeLoach 2002 12:52 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Apologies to the listFWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on Darryl's once, on a group cork order. The rings arrived in good condition, albeit a couple days later than expected. When I was sifting through the rings I noticed some other stuff in the bag. A couple of leaders, some extra cork rings and a spool of rod wrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him that I obviuously must be in possession of someone elses order. He said no, hethrew that stuff in just for being patient. A very nice gesture that won't soon be forgotten Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:10:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks Kurt I used pro-bond for my blanks, but I believe they are both similar, anyway I left a little tap when I taped them together and found that when Iglued them the tape would just slide off. the slickness of the glue allowedmy to just push off the tape with my finger nails. Tim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tape on glued-up blanks After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla PU set up, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the blankwhile binding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything cameout OK and the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, then slit the tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll it backup and proceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied about every12" to 18". One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and just bound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open joints? Your tips and thoughts? Thanks,Kurt ClementNixa, MO from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jan 11 10:25:39 2002 g0BGPdW16049 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:25:39 -0600 helo=default) id 16P4Up-0000Gp-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:25:35 -0500 Subject: Re: any new thoughts on glued-up blanks? I, too, do not believe that hanging a weight results in a straighter blank.The reason being that the strips need to slip against one another to be ableto relieve the crooked condition. I tried encasing the blank full lengthwith the mesh tubing, then hanging weights off the end. It didn't matter onewhit the amount of weight I used. If there was a crook anywhere in the blankwhen you started, it was there when you finished.And, I agree: It's better to straighten in the string, and not later. M-D I recall a statement attributed to WC "Straight is straight." There is no such thing as partly straight. Also, I have never really believed that hanging a weighted rod had any effect. Just my thoughts. I like to straighten the rod right out of the binder. and avoid any post gluing straightening. Ralph earsdws@duke.edu wrote: How about a survey of group members on how they hang glued up blanksAND how much straightening is required afterwards? Thanks, dws. from thogan@rochester.rr.com Fri Jan 11 10:26:53 2002 g0BGQoW16239 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:26:50 -0600 g0BGQgu19132; Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks I have just the opposite problem.The tape does not stick.It seems as though my glue gets all over the adhesive side of the tag end ofthe tape, and the glue never has time to get tacky enough to hold whileputting it through the binder. Getting it off in time has never been aproblem. I use standard masking tape, whatever is the cheapest, and URACforglue.I have found success by rolling the rod along a board after glue up assuggested in the literature. I have also experimented with a long homemadevice that forces the rod to become straight with no twist. I have had mixedsuccess with the later, so I can be a firm proponent of the vice.It seems to me the binder could be improved by not twirling the rod, buttwirling the wraps around a blank that is help in place. Much like the JWrod wrapper.Taylor----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tape on glued-up blanks After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla PU set up, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the blankwhile binding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything cameout OK and the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, then slit the tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll it backup and proceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied about every12" to 18". One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and just bound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open joints? Your tips and thoughts? Thanks,Kurt ClementNixa, MO from stoltz10@attbi.com Fri Jan 11 10:42:55 2002 g0BGgtW17179 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:42:55 -0600 Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:42:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks A Smithwick binder works on that concept and that is what I use and havebeen very happy so far.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks I have just the opposite problem.The tape does not stick.It seems as though my glue gets all over the adhesive side of the tag end of the tape, and the glue never has time to get tacky enough to hold whileputting it through the binder. Getting it off in time has never been aproblem. I use standard masking tape, whatever is the cheapest, and URAC for glue.I have found success by rolling the rod along a board after glue up assuggested in the literature. I have also experimented with a long homemadevice that forces the rod to become straight with no twist. I have had mixed success with the later, so I can be a firm proponent of the vice.It seems to me the binder could be improved by not twirling the rod, buttwirling the wraps around a blank that is help in place. Much like the JWrod wrapper.Taylor----- Original Message -----From: "Kurt Clement" Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 7:08 AMSubject: Tape on glued-up blanks After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla PU set up, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the blank while binding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything cameout OK and the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, then slit the tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll it backup and proceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied about every12" to 18". One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and just bound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open joints? Your tips and thoughts? Thanks,Kurt ClementNixa, MO from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jan 11 10:46:05 2002 g0BGk4W17563 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:46:04 -0600 g0BGk2A26978 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:46:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks When I use the Garrison binder for binding to Heat Treat, the tapeis wrapped opposite to the rotation of the blank in the binder. Afolded tape tab is left on the tape that is wrapped around thesticks. When cranking the blank through the binder and the tape getsclose to the belt, hold the tab and keep cranking. The tape willroll off as you turn the blank.The tab was left at the slit in the tape so that the tape would comeoff in one strip.I used to do the same when gluing before I got the four stringbinder. Now I leave a tab, it makes it easy to grab and unwrap.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Brad Love wrote: Well I have left the tape on (by oversight) and the sectionin question came out acceptable. I only tape in three places,either end and the center of the section using 1/2 wide tape.I also keep an exatco knife and blade at the binder for cuttingthread and helping in the removal of the tape. I try to removethe tape when it is being supported by the first set of craddleson the binder(I use a Garrison style). Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/11/02 at 8:29 AM jerryy@webtv.net wrote:. I keep an old bodkin handy and use the needle to start unwrapping at the corner of the slit. from rmoon@ida.net Fri Jan 11 11:09:12 2002 g0BH9BW18904 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:09:12 -0600 Subject: Stuck ferrule ??? My wife has arthritis, and sometimes her joints get really aching, andshe has a little device that really helps. Last summer, mygranddaughter used her Grandma's GRAPHITE rod and seated it so tightthat I was unable to separate it. Now I have been known to take a yearon stuck ferrules. My thinking is that sooner or later they will giveup and I will triumph. No way on this rod. So SWMBLT (she who must belistened to) said why not try heat. I was a little reluctant to grabmy propane torch and sat there pondering for a half hour on what Ishould use. Along came pat and suggested I use her little arthritisreliever. Presto in 30 seconds with NO effort the ferrules separated.What is the gimmick? A little bag 1 1/2 inches by 4 inches filledwith rice. Stick in the microwave for a bit and out it comes. not toohot, but hot enough and it retains the hear. You know she even gets meout of computer hang-ups as well. It works even better on metalferrules. from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 11:37:39 2002 g0BHbcW20705 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:37:38 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Good wood free Hi, I just found a gem. Most of you probably already know about this, but forthose of you who buy wood for reel seats and stuff, take a look at localcustom cabinet places. I just found a guy here in town who makes cabinetdoors for the half dozen or so custom cabinet places in town. That's all hedoes and he has a lot of scrap. Most of his scrap is too small for typicaljobs, but just right for reel seat spacers (and hard wood fly boxes). Hehas tons of oak, and often you can find maple, walnut, and cherry. Sinceit's all scrap, he just lets it go. No cost. So, if anyone is looking, getto know one of these guys. Jason from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Jan 11 11:37:53 2002 g0BHbqW20722 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:37:53 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Router setup question Hi all, I have a quick question about the router setup for making reel seat inserts.I have a nice table and a Makita plunge router. However, I was thinking itmight be a good idea to get a fixed base router that I can leave set up onthe table so I can keep using my plunge router for other stuff. I waswondering if a 1 hp router (25,000 rpm) would have enough stuff to workhardwood like walnut and maple. I don't want to get to expensive if I purchasea router specifically for the table, but I want to make sure it will do thejob without chattering or burning. Will the 1 hp do it? Jason from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jan 11 11:52:16 2002 g0BHqGW21818 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:52:16 -0600 g0BHqEA06028 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:52:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Router setup question Jason.I am using the 19.99 Trim Router from Harbor freight. It works as good asmy100.00 router worked.Would be glad to send you a shot of my setup.It is a dedicated setup on a 5.00 yard sale router table. Ready to use when Iamready to use it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jason Swan wrote: Hi all, I have a quick question about the router setup for making reel seatinserts.I have a nice table and a Makita plunge router. However, I was thinking itmight be a good idea to get a fixed base router that I can leave set up onthe table so I can keep using my plunge router for other stuff. I waswondering if a 1 hp router (25,000 rpm) would have enough stuff to workhardwood like walnut and maple. I don't want to get to expensive if I purchasea router specifically for the table, but I want to make sure it will do thejob without chattering or burning. Will the 1 hp do it? Jason from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 11 12:36:13 2002 g0BIaCW23785 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:36:12 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Router table setup hint I know many of you use router tables and we all eventually have to changebits out... hardest part about that is setting the bit depth so that it'sperfectly centered after changing. Well, the first time I changed bits, Iwasted a few pieces of round trying to get my bit set right... here's what Idid. When I finally got the bit set to the right depth, I milled depthguage out of aluminum so that when i replaced the bit, I just set the top ofthe new bit exactly the heigth of the old bit. No guesswork this way and nofighting the adjustment after you change bits. Of course, you have to usethe same brand and style bits every time. I actually have two guages, one Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Router setup question Jason.I am using the 19.99 Trim Router from Harbor freight. It works as good as my 100.00 router worked.Would be glad to send you a shot of my setup.It is a dedicated setup on a 5.00 yard sale router table. Ready to use when I am ready to use it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jason Swan wrote: Hi all, I have a quick question about the router setup for making reel seat inserts. I have a nice table and a Makita plunge router. However, I was thinking it might be a good idea to get a fixed base router that I can leave set up on the table so I can keep using my plunge router for other stuff. I waswondering if a 1 hp router (25,000 rpm) would have enough stuff to work hard wood like walnut and maple. I don't want to get to expensive if I purchase a router specifically for the table, but I want to make sure it will do the job without chattering or burning. Will the 1 hp do it? Jason from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Jan 11 13:53:48 2002 g0BJrlW27365 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:53:47 -0600 g0BJrjA29969 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:53:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Router table setup hint If you don't have a aluminum gauge made up just use a insert that has therightmortise on it. It takes a bit more setup than Bobs gauge.Just slip the insert on the mandrill and the mandrill holding blocks and work itto where the bit and insert fit together as a match.Bob's Gauge is a lot better if you can get one made. I guess one can be made from hardwood.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: I know many of you use router tables and we all eventually have to changebits out... hardest part about that is setting the bit depth so that it'sperfectly centered after changing. Well, the first time I changed bits, Iwasted a few pieces of round trying to get my bit set right... here's what Idid. When I finally got the bit set to the right depth, I milled depthguage out of aluminum so that when i replaced the bit, I just set the top ofthe new bit exactly the heigth of the old bit. No guesswork this way and nofighting the adjustment after you change bits. Of course, you have to usethe same brand and style bits every time. I actually have two guages, one Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:49 AMSubject: Re: Router setup question Jason.I am using the 19.99 Trim Router from Harbor freight. It works as goodas my 100.00 router worked.Would be glad to send you a shot of my setup.It is a dedicated setup on a 5.00 yard sale router table. Ready to use when I am ready to use it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jason Swan wrote: Hi all, I have a quick question about the router setup for making reel seat inserts. I have a nice table and a Makita plunge router. However, I was thinking it might be a good idea to get a fixed base router that I can leave set up on the table so I can keep using my plunge router for other stuff. I waswondering if a 1 hp router (25,000 rpm) would have enough stuff towork hard wood like walnut and maple. I don't want to get to expensive if I purchase a router specifically for the table, but I want to make sure it will do the job without chattering or burning. Will the 1 hp do it? Jason from rkrees@mcn.net Fri Jan 11 15:03:00 2002 g0BL2xW01055 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:02:59 -0600 helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16P8pE-0003Xb-00; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:02:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Router table setup hint What I did is to run a piece of waste hardwood through the table saw at theproper depth and drilled a whole the shank size plus one on center, then Icut the block in half and use these for gages. I have these for manydifferent set ups! from fquinchat@locl.net Fri Jan 11 15:17:05 2002 g0BLH5W01808 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:17:05 -0600 Subject: Superglue accelerator Where can you buy superglue accelerator? Hardwares and Lowes don't seemtohave it. Dennis Bertram from jojo@ipa.net Fri Jan 11 15:23:17 2002 g0BLNGW02364 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:23:16 -0600 helo=default) id 16P98s-00014U-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:23:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Superglue accelerator A Hobby Shop. It's a type of Freon. M-D Where can you buy superglue accelerator? Hardwares and Lowes don'tseem to have it. Dennis Bertram from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 11 15:28:39 2002 g0BLScW02883 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:28:38 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Superglue accelerator Grizzly also has it in their catalog. New 2002 catalog, page 247, part #H0928, 2 oz. bottle for $4.95. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Superglue accelerator Where can you buy superglue accelerator? Hardwares and Lowes don'tseem to have it. Dennis Bertram from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jan 11 15:47:02 2002 g0BLl1W03980 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:47:01 -0600 g0BLktl248754 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:46:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Superglue accelerator Organization: Prodigy Internet I got mine at a flyshop. It's called "Zipkicker".Steve Where can you buy superglue accelerator? Hardwares and Lowes don'tseem to have it. Dennis Bertram from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Jan 11 16:31:33 2002 g0BMVUW05874 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:31:30 -0600 Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks Kurt, I use 3 tapes only on a 48" section - 4 on a 56" section with all 1/2" =wide masking tape. There is always some of the glue that seems to stick =somewhere. You "might" get some between the strips hence removal is =prudent. catch ya' Don At 07:08 AM 1/11/02 -0500, Kurt Clement wrote:After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla =PU set up, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the =blank while binding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything = I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, =then slit the tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll =it back up and proceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied = One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and =just bound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open = Your tips and thoughts? Kurt ClementNixa, MO To the List,Try the wire-based tie wraps that your wife brings home from the =supermarket. They come off easily. Bill ----- Original Message ----- & Sandy Andersen Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 = AM blanks Kurt,I use 3 tapes only on a 48" section - 4 on a 56" = with all 1/2" wide masking tape. There is always some of the glue that = to stick somewhere. You "might" get some between the strips hence = prudent.catch ya'DonAt 07:08 AM1/11/02 = before the Gorilla PU set up, I was wondering is there a better way to = tape off the blank while binding, or is there a better tape or = Everything came out OK and the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. = spline #1, then slit the tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, = roll it back up and proceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and = what if the tape was left on and just bound over? Would it interfere = To the List, Bill from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Jan 11 16:33:39 2002 g0BMXcW06065 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:33:38 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Mike Montagne speaks out All, I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne (a great guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in "Trout" (its in my Extracts). A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found on my website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.-- Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >FromHomeyDKlown@att.net Fri Jan 11 18:08:22 2002 Received: frommtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127- ;Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:08:11 +0000 From: "Dennis Haftel" Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out Date:Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:11:41 - 0500 Message-ID: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Reed, Excellent work, asusual. Thanks! Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Reed Curry Sent: Friday, January fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( a greatguy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in "Trout"(its in my Extracts). A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophiescan be found on my website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- - Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >Fromdnorl@qwest.net Fri Jan 11 19:06:26 2002 Received: from g0C16PW10585 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 Jan 2002 01:06:23 -0000 Received: frommplsdslgw11poolb106.mpls.uswest.net (HELO computer) (63.228.45.106) by Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:06:50 -0600 Message-ID:From: "Dave Norling" Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hobby stores do ----- Original Date: Friday, January 11, 2002 3:17 PMSubject: Superglue accelerator Where can you buy superglue accelerator? Hardwares and Lowes don'tseem tohave it. Dennis Bertram from lkoeser@ceva.net Fri Jan 11 19:08:32 2002 g0C18RW10686 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:08:27 -0600 Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:00:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Tape on glued-up blanks Wayne C., shows in his book putting one wrap of tape around the strips andmaking a tab with the ends of the tape. These become something to grabwhenbinding the glued blank. It works for me.Lee----- Original Message --- -- Subject: Tape on glued-up blanks After struggling to get a blank wrapped last night before the Gorilla PU set up, I was wondering is there a better way to get the tape off the blankwhile binding, or is there a better tape or technique? Everything cameout OK and the blank is nicely wrapped - and straight. I use masking tape for just over 1 revolution starting on spline #1, then slit the tape between spline #6 and #1, lay it out, glue it, roll it backup and proceed to the wrapper. Tape is 1/4" wide and applied about every12" to 18". One thought that has come to me is - what if the tape was left on and just bound over? Would it interfere with binding and perhaps cause open joints? Your tips and thoughts? Thanks,Kurt ClementNixa, MO from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jan 11 20:04:57 2002 g0C24uW12025 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:04:56 -0600 Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out Dear Reed:Thanks for sharing the wonderful article. My head hurts now, and I am goingnumb from the shoulders up. (I really liked looking at the pictures).All kidding aside, what did he do to get straight blanks? I got lost there.I think he stated that his beveller could cut any sort of bent up strip, buthow did he get them glued up straight?The part about Per Brandin and the beveller was hilarious. I wonder what Perwould do to a snooper at his shop. Probably pistol whip the guy with a twohanded, hollow built 13 wt.I think Michael Montagne and Bob Milward should get together and see whoscores higher on the Mensa test. First all the Sam Carlson info and nowthis. You are becoming the leading quadrate authority. Wow.Thanks a million,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Mike Montagne speaks out All, I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with MikeMontagne ( agreat guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts). A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophiescan be found onmy website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from channer@frontier.net Fri Jan 11 21:10:43 2002 g0C3AgW13294 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:10:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Reed;Please tell me this is just the first installment!!!!!!!Get the wholestory, minute by minute, from the first time he even considered buildinga rod up until he walked away from it for the last time. This was THEmost fascinating article I have ever read, but what a teaser! john Reed Curry wrote: All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( agreat guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found onmy website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- -Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sat Jan 12 00:16:19 2002 g0C6GIW29170 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:16:18 -0600 helo=g2t8c9) id 16PHSd-000159-00; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:16:11 -0800 Subject: Re: any new thoughts on glued-up blanks? No hanging blanks here, no straightening either.I let my blanks dry in the forms correctly adjusted to do so and let dry.Presto Perfect! Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: any new thoughts on glued-up blanks? How about a survey of group members on how they hang glued up blanksAND how much straightening is required afterwards? Thanks, dws. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Jan 12 03:41:35 2002 g0C9fXW03153 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 03:41:33 -0600 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 01:41:27 -0800 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:41:27 GMT Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out FILETIME=[4EAC8240:01C19B4D] Fascinating article. I think it is time to attack a simple problem such as the construction of a thermonuculear device! I have to agree with the comments about computer tapers though, it is apparent that 'something' is missing when the tapers are reengineered that way. I have cast goodcomputer tapers but never a great one. Fortunately most end users can't tell the difference. My conclusion about the design of tapers by many of the old masters is that they knew what they wanted the rod to do(fast, slow, tip action, evenly loading action, etc.) then picked out the ferrule sizes they knew would do what needed to be done and filled in the rod in between. A fast 5wt 8ft rod would have a 14 ferrule at about .210-.214 .068 -.072 tip and a .300-.320 but before the swell, slow full working 5 .200-.205 ferrule, about a .066 tip and a .290 butt a med fast 4 would be .190 at the ferrule .066 - .068 tip and a 280-290 butt . What happens in between , barring something weird isn't all that important. Is M.M. still building? It seems a waste of his obvious talent if he is no longer building.A.J. From: channer CC: rod Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks outDate: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:13:32 -0700 Reed;Please tell me this is just the first installment!!!!!!!Get the wholestory, minute by minute, from the first time he even considered buildinga rod up until he walked away from it for the last time. This was THEmost fascinating article I have ever read, but what a teaser!john Reed Curry wrote: All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( a great guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found on my website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Jan 12 04:48:08 2002 g0CAm7W03866 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 04:48:07 - for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:48:48 GMT Subject: Darryl Hayashida I wanted to quickly thank everyone who answered my questions re.contactingDarryl Hayashida via his email alternatives, and the selection of acollection agency. VERY interesting. Lots of old friends have piped up, and I think there is now a possibilitythat my problem has been solved, and/or that if it isn't I have an excellentroute to getting it solved. I now have contact with a collection agency inCalifornia, and have also taken note of the idea that I might also look atthe Morgan Mill list. It means that I may soon be able to send 105 mailscollected over several years, to the trash can. It's very interesting to find that others share one's concerns, andfeelings, and are very keen to compare notes. I wish I'd asked for the List's help on this ages ago. This is a very powerful medium. A well-read new contact in The States reminded me of the story of SirAnthony Blunt. Sir Anthony was the Queen's advisor on fine art, and a notedexpert. Late in life he was discovered to be an absolute rat-bag of acharacter, who had conspired with other spies to sell British and Americansecrets to the Russians. Sir Anthony certainly knew a great deal aboutItalian master's paintings, but he was really a deeply faulted person willlittle conscience, and only a deeply-deluded personal view of what was true.Some said he was slightly mad. Anyway, Sir Anthony's Knighthood was takenaway by the Queen, and he died some years later as plain old Mr Blunt. TheQueen was deeply saddened by the revelations, because she had liked andtrusted her old advisor, and felt betrayed by his unconscionable behaviour. With apologies to all for taking space, and for writing in code. Listmembers who know me of old will realize that I have not taken the liberty ofusing list space without good reason. Hopefully, this will be the last time I need to mention the subject. I hopelist members will read with interest, but I suspect that most will feel thatfurther replies on-list are inappropriate. Again, thank-you everyone. Best wishes to all. John Cooper Normal0DocumentEmail I wanted to quickly thank everyone who answered my questions re. =contactingDarryl Hayashida via his email alternatives, and the selection of a =collectionagency. VERY interesting. Lots of old friends have piped up, and I think there is now apossibility that my problem has been solved, and/or that if it =isn’t I have an I now have contact with a collection agency in California, and =have alsotaken note of the idea that I might also look at the Morgan Mill list. =It meansthat I may soon be able to send 105 mails collected over several years, =to thetrash can. It’s very interesting to find that others share one’s =concerns, andfeelings, and are very keen to compare notes. I wish I’d asked for =the List’shelp on this ages ago. This is a very powerful =medium. A well-read new contact in The States reminded me of the story of =SirAnthony Blunt. Sir Anthony was the Queen’s advisor on fine art, =and a notedexpert. Late in life he was discovered to be an absolute rat-bag of acharacter, who had conspired with other spies to sell British and =Americansecrets to the Russians. Sir Anthony certainly knew a great deal about =Italianmaster’s paintings, but he was really a deeply faulted person will =littleconscience, and only a deeply-deluded personal view of what was true. =Some saidhe was slightly mad. Anyway, Sir Anthony’s Knighthood was taken =away by theQueen, and he died some years later as plain old Mr Blunt. The Queen was =deeplysaddened by the revelations, because she had liked and trusted her old =advisor,and felt betrayed by his unconscionable =behaviour. With apologies to all for taking space, and for writing in code. =List memberswho know me of old will realize that I have not taken the liberty of =using listspace without good reason. Hopefully, this will be the last time I need to mention the =subject. Ihope list members will read with interest, but I suspect that most will =feelthat further replies on-list are =inappropriate. -Don D ----- Original Message ----- From: Coffey, Patrick W Sent: Saturday, January 12, 200211:46 AMSubject: RE: Apologies to the list Darryl, you don't owe any of us an apology,if some one has a personal beef with you, that doesn't effect us and should nothave been brought up on the list. This is kind of a family and families can't all get along all the time, squabbles come up from time to time. Shit happens!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident RepairPlanning Phone: 425-234- 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: Saturday, January 12, 2002 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Apologies to thelistYes, this is a matter that never should havemade it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as far as the list is concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies.Darryl Hayashida from jerryy@webtv.net Sat Jan 12 15:08:09 2002 g0CL88W19746 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:08:08 -0600 by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2111.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id NAA13168; ETAuAhUAnvj0EH16y8D83dkqhBCDaml/uocCFQCCIt2b+lfZKlX87Z6FBxYhFps/tg== Subject: Re: nymph rod taper 12 Jan 2002 16:07:33 -0500 I have five of his catalogs covering most periods and no mention of it.He did offer the choice of two reel seats. The Perfection @ 2 1/2 oz.with a heavier reel seat may help explain it. Know he did a lot ofexperimenting. Recently had a shock when a friend had a P.H.Y. with aperson's name inked on the rod in quotes. I thought boy here's a newmodel. Checking proved that it was actually a Para-15 and the name wasP.H.Y.'s next door neighbor when he lived in Detriot, and had been agift. Jerry Young from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sat Jan 12 15:26:02 2002 g0CLQ1W20276 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:26:01 -0600 Subject: Re: nymph rod taper g0CLQ2W20277 But there is a rod called the Nymph Jr. rod.Says so in my PHY 56 catalog on page 26.Now comes the mysterious part: On page 4there is a list of 2 piece flyrods, which equalsthe rods described further on in the catalog,except the Nymph Jr. Does that mean thatthe Nymph Jr. is a 3 pcs. rod? Probably notas on page 30 there is a list of 3 pcs. rods,4 in all, 9 and 9 1/2 feet rods. We have a mystery onOur hands, I think. regards, carsten from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Jan 12 15:28:35 2002 g0CLSZW20484 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:28:35 -0600 12 Jan 2002 13:28:34 PST Subject: Weber rod - heard of these ? I have seen my first Weber rod today. Never heard ofthem. Anyone got some insight ? Looks like aproduction rod but casts fair. Needs straighten atmid. I see it associated with Edwards; EW Edwards made Weber at http://www.vfish.net/gallery.htm and at another site associated withHeddon . TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from caneman@clnk.com Sat Jan 12 16:38:25 2002 g0CMcPW22016 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:38:25 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Weber rod - heard of these ? Rex,Weber was in Stevens Point, WI. They made bamboo rods, all between 8and10 feet along and all three piecers. They started up business in 1919,founded by O.L. Weber. IN 1927, they built a new plant to accomodate newlines picked up by their buying Ross Artificial Fly Compalny andKinnickinnic Tackle Company.Bob Becker, a well reknowned flyfisher of the early third of the 20thcentury was more or less their spokesman. Many rods were sold that hadtagswith Mr. Beckers picture on them. These rods were "matched sets" selectedbyBecker as a complete outfit, rod, rell and line.All of the above info is paraphrased from Michael Sinclair's book,"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook". I can email you more details later ifyou want. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Weber rod - heard of these ? I have seen my first Weber rod today. Never heard ofthem. Anyone got some insight ? Looks like aproduction rod but casts fair. Needs straighten atmid. I see it associated with Edwards;EW Edwards made Weber athttp://www.vfish.net/gallery.htmand at another site associated with Heddon .TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sat Jan 12 16:55:59 2002 g0CMtwW22491 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:55:58 -0600 "RodMakers Listserve" Subject: Re: Weber rod - heard of these ? My 1937 Weber Catalog shows four fly rod models:#3500 Henshall Masterkraft, $35#2500 Henshall Handkraft, $25#1500 Monogram, $15.Weber Initiator, $12 Each model was available only as 3 piece rods with an extra tip, and inlengths of 8', 8' 6",9', and 9' 6" from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sat Jan 12 17:01:03 2002 g0CN12W22805 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:01:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Gene Edwards rod tapers? I have detailed measurements of a Gene Edwards Deluxe, 3 piece, 8' 6" rodthat I owned at one time. There is too much detail to post unless you wantonly the taper. Send me your address off list and I will mail you aphotocopy from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jan 12 17:23:23 2002 g0CNNMW23378 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:23:22 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4179. . Clean. Processed in 3.408189 secs); 12 Jan 200223:23:18 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: P&M Parabolic Royale 7`4" #5 thread needed Hi Carsten, I have a P&M 7'2" #4/5. Are you sure it's 7'4"? Marty Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Have this afternoon recieved the above rod for repair. A newtip is needed, as the original had an incident involving a car. So, friends, I need the taper as the last 10 inches of the tip is missing.Furthermore the thread used on the rod is a copperish, metallic thread,probably a Gudebrod 9396???? If anyone has any info, or, indeed,a spool of the right thread, please do contact me. regards, carsten jorgensenwww.daniaflyrods.com from horsesho@ptd.net Sat Jan 12 17:28:07 2002 g0CNS6W23685 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:28:06 -0600 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4179. . Clean. Processed in 3.108903 secs); 12 Jan 200223:10:43 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Weber rod - heard of these ? Weber Lifelike Fly Co. was a large and long lived tackle house in I believe Wisconsin. Most rods are Heddon's but a few are Edwards(I have one) or Phillipson. Marty Rex Tutor wrote: I have seen my first Weber rod today. Never heard ofthem. Anyone got some insight ? Looks like aproduction rod but casts fair. Needs straighten atmid. I see it associated with Edwards; EW Edwards made Weber at http://www.vfish.net/gallery.htm >and at another site associated withHeddon . TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from channer@frontier.net Sat Jan 12 17:31:22 2002 g0CNVKW23941 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:31:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Weber rod - heard of these ? Rex;Most of the Weber rods were made by Heddon, tho I have heard rumorsthat Edwards made some,too.john Rex Tutor wrote: I have seen my first Weber rod today. Never heard ofthem. Anyone got some insight ? Looks like aproduction rod but casts fair. Needs straighten atmid. I see it associated with Edwards;EW Edwards made Weber athttp://www.vfish.net/gallery.htmand at another site associated with Heddon .TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Jan 12 17:50:35 2002 g0CNoYW24516 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:50:34 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16PXuy-0003gM-00; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:50:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Weber rod - heard of these ? Rex:According to Sinclair's "Heddon" book, the first rods sold by Weber appearedin the late '20's and were made by E. W. Edwards. The trade name for thehigh grade was Henshall Hand Made, lower grade Weber's Special. Heddon began making rods for Weber about 1935. By 1938, Weber had thefollowing rods Heddon-Made. #3500 Henshall Mastercraft was top end,equivalent to Heddon #35, next was #2500 Henshall Handkraft (Heddon#20),then Monogram (H#17), Weberkraft (#14) and Water-Witch (#10). Thisfrompgs. 160-162 of the book. More info found there including wrap colors.I'll provide more if requested.Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Weber rod - heard of these ? I have seen my first Weber rod today. Never heard ofthem. Anyone got some insight ? Looks like aproduction rod but casts fair. Needs straighten atmid. I see it associated with Edwards;EW Edwards made Weber athttp://www.vfish.net/gallery.htmand at another site associated with Heddon .TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from flyfish@defnet.com Sat Jan 12 18:34:29 2002 g0D0YSW25493 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:34:28 -0600 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:34:26 -0500 Subject: Thanks for everything!!! Hi listSorry to take up space. It's been a while since I last wrote to the =list.I haven't had time to contribute lately. I wanted to thank everyone on =the list for helping me out to become a better rod maker. And I hope I = I know I contributed to the antics LOL:))I have just decided to go back to college (full time) at age 36.It's a little overwhelming and I wish I would have not quit college when =I was younger.:)Who knows, maybe they might even teach me to spell. LOL :))Anyway, I've made a lot of friends and a few enemy's along the way, but = I'm sorry if anyone wrote me recently and I haven't answered. It was not =intentional.:)I am going to sign off list Monday (sadly) but if anyone needs to =contact me I can still be reached by email. Once again thanks for all =the laughs , stories ,information and camaraderie.Hopefully I can come back when things slow down a little. www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlP.S. Adam, one last movie quote: "Back to school, back to school, to =show my wife I'm not a fool"LOL :)) :)) BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; =BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} Hi list list. everyone on the list for helping me out to become a better rod maker. = I have just decided to go back to college (full time) at age =36. :)) not intentional.:) little.Sincerely www.homestead.com/= show my wife I'm not a fool"LOL :)) :)) from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Jan 12 18:36:24 2002 g0D0aNW25730 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:36:23 -0600 (63.228.45.28) Subject: Darryl Hayashida Have always been interested in what Darryl has to say. He is truly an =innovator. I've never had an original thought in my life and therefore =am amazed at his innovative, daring and creative mind. If Mr.. Window =with his transparent message thinks that this will change my mind about =Darryl he is wrong. I have however changed my mind about Mr.. Window he =has told me more about himself than he has about Darryl.Love Ya Darryl,Dave Have always been interested inwhat = to say. He is truly an innovator. I've never had an original thought in = and therefore am amazed at his innovative, daring and creative mind. If = Window with his transparent message thinks that this will change my mind = Darryl he is wrong. I have however changed my mind about Mr.. Window he = me more about himself than he has about Darryl.Love Ya Darryl,Dave from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Jan 12 18:39:40 2002 g0D0ddW26009 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:39:39 -0600 g0D0daa20011 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:39:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Weber rod - heard of these ? I have a Webber that is in sad shape. It still has mostof the decal on it though.Some day I may restore it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Rex Tutor wrote: I have seen my first Weber rod today. Never heard ofthem. Anyone got some insight ? Looks like aproduction rod but casts fair. Needs straighten atmid. I see it associated with Edwards;EW Edwards made Weber athttp://www.vfish.net/gallery.htmand at another site associated with Heddon .TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from FlyfishT@aol.com Sat Jan 12 19:14:55 2002 g0D1ErW26875 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:14:53 -0600 Subject: Re: nymph rod taper Hi Shawn, Jerry, I Have a repro 1956 P Y catalog. On page 26, it speaks of the nymph jr as the offspring to the Daddy 9' nymph special . Maybe, as Carsten said, it is a mystery rod. Or maybe it's the same rod taper but with a different name? Someone out there should know. Thanks, Tom from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 12 19:56:09 2002 g0D1u8W27675 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:56:08 -0600 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:57:23 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Thanks for everything!!! --------------C9284BDB8025071195C04B50 Tony,best of luck! Your messages and input will be missed by myselfand I'm sure a majority of the list.I finished up high school in my early 30's so I can relate toyour apprehension over going back to college. It's a big step but,personally I feel it was one of my biggest accomplishments to date.Drop us a line when you get a chance,Shawn Tony Miller wrote: Hi listSorry to take up space. It's been a while since I last wrote tothe list.I haven't had time to contribute lately. I wanted to thankeveryone on the list for helping me out to become a better rod maker.And I hope I contributed something along the way too.I know Icontributed to the antics LOL:))I have just decided to go back tocollege (full time) at age 36.It's a little overwhelming and I wish Iwould have not quit college when I was younger.:)Who knows, maybe theymight even teach me to spell. LOL :))Anyway, I've made a lot offriends and a few enemy's along the way, but the time on the list waswell spent.I'm sorry if anyone wrote me recently and I haven'tanswered. It was not intentional.:)I am going to sign off list Monday(sadly) but if anyone needs to contact me I can still be reached byemail. Once again thanks for all the laughs , stories ,information andcamaraderie.Hopefully I can come back when things slow down alittle.SincerelyTony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.htmlP.S. Adam, one last movie quote: "Back to school, back to school, toshow my wife I'm not a fool"LOL :)) :)) --------------C9284BDB8025071195C04B50 Tony, messages and input will be missed by myself and I'm sure a majority ofthe list. school in my early 30's so I can relate to your apprehension over goingback to college. It's a big step but, personally I feel it was one of mybiggest accomplishments to date. get a chance, ShawnTony Miller wrote:BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT- SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000;BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond MT} HilistSorry to take up space. It's been a while since I last wrote to the everyone on the list for helping me out to become a better rod maker. AndI hope I contributed something along the way too.I know I contributed tothe antics LOL:))I have just decided to go back to college (full time)at age 36.It's a little overwhelming and I wish I would have not quit collegewhen I was younger.:)Who knows, maybe they might even teach me to spell.LOL :))Anyway, I've made a lot of friends and a few enemy's along the way,but the time on the list was well spent.I'm sorry if anyone wrote me recentlyand I haven't answered. It was not intentional.:)I am going to sign offlist Monday (sadly) but if anyone needs to contact me I can still be reached camaraderie.Hopefully I can come back when things slow down alittle.SincerelyTonyMillerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html to show my wife I'm not a fool"LOL :)) :)) --------------C9284BDB8025071195C04B50-- from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 12 19:59:16 2002 g0D1xFW27927 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:59:15 -0600 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 22:00:30 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: nymph rod taper Wish George was still with us, he'd know!!Shawn FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: Hi Shawn, Jerry, I Have a repro 1956 P Y catalog. On page 26, it speaks of the nymph jr astheoffspring to the Daddy 9' nymph special . Maybe, as Carsten said, it is amystery rod. Or maybe it's the same rod taper but with a different name?Someone out there should know. Thanks, Tom from fquinchat@locl.net Sat Jan 12 20:39:52 2002 g0D2dpW28862 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:39:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Chris Bogart E-mail. Marco, I believe there is one of your tapers mentioned in the Milward book. I notethat it has a concave taper. Would you tell us a little about the designtheory. Dennis Bertram-----Original Message----- Subject: Chris Bogart E-mail. Dear Friends,I lost the e-amil address of Mr. Chris Bogart, can anyone help about the.Sincerely,Marco Boretti from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sat Jan 12 23:13:30 2002 g0D5DUW01195 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:13:30 -0600 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:13:24 -0800 Subject: Re: The Madison binder FILETIME=[06C1EAC0:01C19BF1] After messing with my Garrison binder for months, I have finally figured outa superior method for binding that I would like to share. I do it by hand,but I have my daughter help me. I begin wrapping by hand at the butt, andafter about a foot she steps in and rotates the blank for me, and providesmost of the "turning power". I also turn the blank, but concentrate ongetting even wraps, supporting the rod, and making sure that everything isbeing bound into place properly. The beauty of this system is that it seems to eliminate virtually everyproblem I had in binding. No twisting, the blank comes out straight, nodanger of breaking anything, and there is no physical or psychologicalstress. She has caught on quickly how to adjust the angle of the blank tokeep the binding going smoothly. It has become a Saturday morning ritual(Maddie, get down here, we need to glue up some rods!). I stumbled across this only in extemis. I was binding a tip by hand, and gota serious cramp in my hand. I called her over for help, and it worked sowell we decided to try it again. The only drawback to this method is thatshe will eventually grow up and I will have to make a Milward binder. jeff schaeffer from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sat Jan 12 23:20:16 2002 g0D5KFW01518 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:20:15 -0600 Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:20:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Lost rod tapers FILETIME=[F8893610:01C19BF1] The mystery nymph rod brings to mind a question: there are obviously a lotof rods out there that are not being made- the large selection in the PaulYoung catalog makes this point. Buy why are they not being made? Is itbecause they were not as good as the Para 15, Midge, Perfectionist, Driggs,and Smidgeon (the ones that seem to be popular on the list)? Or have thesetapers been lost because none of these rods survived to be measured? Jeff Schaeffer from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Jan 13 04:39:31 2002 g0DAdUW04580 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 04:39:30 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:39:24 +0000 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: nymph rod taper tis true ! Shawn Pineo wrote: Wish George was still with us, he'd know!!Shawn FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: Hi Shawn, Jerry, I Have a repro 1956 P Y catalog. On page 26, it speaks of the nymph jr astheoffspring to the Daddy 9' nymph special . Maybe, as Carsten said, it is amystery rod. Or maybe it's the same rod taper but with a differentname?Someone out there should know. Thanks, Tom from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sun Jan 13 05:49:26 2002 g0DBnOW05220 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 05:49:24 - Subject: test - delete type="multipart/alternative"; just testingwww.daniaflyrods.com - splitcane flyrods for the discerning fisherman BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN- LEFT:125px; =COLOR: #800000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT- FAMILY: Arial} just testingwww.daniaflyrods.com - = flyrods for the discerning fisherman Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out This totally blew my mind... great article. Thank you, Reed. I can't wait This guy is clearly in a class by himself. His rod design theory, and subsequent development of the "optimal" casting rod, is more than I can bear... I MUST find out this taper and how he did it! Talk of computer design... he used physics to design his rod, developed a mathematical model interesting that he says he built the rod just to prove out the design! His other statement was interesting when he says that according to the laws of physics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! I do think he is a little harsh on Garrison. I don't have the book (yet) but my understanding is that Garrison used a static design to generate hisstress curves... he used a bridge design model for fly rods. I don't think Garrison claimed he developed this model to characterize the dynamic forces of casting, rather his static model is used for taper design only. Some of you engineers out there are going to have to figure this one out for all of us! Kyle In a message dated 01/11/2002 2:33:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, rcurry@ttlc.net writes: All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( a great guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in "Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found on my website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.-- Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/--------------------- -- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa01.mx.aol.com (rly-xa01.mail.aol.com 0111173359; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:33:59 1900 rly- Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:33:54 -0500 g0BMXoW06115; g0BMXcW06065 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:36:03 -0500From: Reed Curry User- Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2X-Accept-Language: en-us Subject: Mike Montagne speaks out Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 13 09:26:37 2002 g0DFQaW08015 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:26:36 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Has anyone built this taper as a 3pc?? I hate long rod tubes, if Ican avoid them I do, guess that's why I stick to rods 7' 6" at thelongest.Planning on using this rod for steelhead, big trout, and otherlarger species when I go to Ontario for 3 months in the spring. I hadstarted out building a Cattanach Force, but reflecting on some of thefish I saw coming out of the rivers there last year, I figured a bitmore power was needed.Does anyone have this taper done up as a 3 piece or should I justleave the taper be and add the extra ferrule??Thanks,Shawn from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 13 09:27:52 2002 g0DFRoW08173 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:27:50 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Has anyone built this taper as a 3pc?? I hate long rod tubes, if Ican avoid them I do, guess that's why I stick to rods 7' 6" at thelongest.Planning on using this rod for steelhead, big trout, and otherlarger species when I go to Ontario for 3 months in the spring. Got thesmall rods covered but I'm lacking a big gun. I had started out buildinga Cattanach Force, but reflecting on some of the fish I saw coming outof the rivers there last year, I figured a bit more power was needed.Does anyone have this taper done up as a 3 piece or should I justleave the taper be and add the extra ferrule??Thanks,Shawn from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 13 09:29:32 2002 g0DFTWW08379 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:29:32 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Dickerson 8015 Guide Special Dickerson Guide Special 8015 for 7 wt....Has anyone built thistaper as a 3pc?? I hate long rod tubes, if I can avoid them I do, guessthat's why I usually stick to rods 7' 6" at the longest (and 2-5wt ;^). Planning on using this rod for steelhead, big trout, and otherlarger species when I go to Ontario for 3 months in the spring. Got thesmall rods covered but I'm lacking a big gun. I had started out buildinga Cattanach Force, but reflecting on some of the fish I saw coming outof the rivers there last year, I figured a bit more power was needed.Does anyone have this taper done up as a 3 piece or should I justleave the taper be and add the extra ferrule??Thanks,Shawn from darrell@vFish.net Sun Jan 13 09:39:13 2002 g0DFdDW08798 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:39:13 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:39:03 -0600 Subject: RE: Weber rod - heard of these ? I have or have owned Weber rods made by Phillipson, Heddon, Edwards and acouple low grade rods probably by H-I. The most well known are the ones byHeddon. The Phillipson appears to be very late... after Heddon closed upshop and so little (or nothing) is written about the rods made byPhilllipson. The Phillipson has all the markings and decals that aresupposed to be Heddon so I am presuming that after Heddon closed down,Phillipson took over making their top of the line rod. The Professor model I own/owned is definitely NOT a Heddon but a low gradeH-I but you see people claiming them to be because Heddon made a LOT ofrods I'd wager other makers also made rods for them as they were once a hugeoutfitter. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Weber rod - heard of these ? Weber Lifelike Fly Co. was a large and long lived tackle house in Ibelieve Wisconsin. Most rods are Heddon's but a few are Edwards(I haveone) or Phillipson. Marty Rex Tutor wrote: I have seen my first Weber rod today. Never heard ofthem. Anyone got some insight ? Looks like aproduction rod but casts fair. Needs straighten atmid. I see it associated with Edwards;EW Edwards made Weber athttp://www.vfish.net/gallery.htmand at another site associated with Heddon .TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Jan 13 09:41:32 2002 g0DFfVW09020 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:41:31 - 13 Jan 2002 07:41:31 PST Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools A plastic stick with lots of different shapes in it from Clemens. It has a flat ,round and hard edge. $4as I recall. --- taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools?RegardsTaylor __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sun Jan 13 09:48:06 2002 g0DFm5W09327 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:48:05 - Subject: Marlborough Show Hi, Is anyone going to the show in Massachussetts this coming weekend? We haven't been to one of these mega-shows before and would enjoy seeing afriendly face (as well as just putting a few more faces with the names onthis List). David will be the guy in the Roy Hawk Bamboo hat (and Kat willbe the shorter person trying not to get stepped on....) Feel free toe-mail us for a contact arrangement, or just come by for a rendezvous atthe author's booth on Saturday at eleven. Hope we can hook up, Kathy and David from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Jan 13 10:03:30 2002 g0DG3TW09793 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:03:29 - 13 Jan 2002 08:03:28 PST Subject: Weber - thanks I appreciate all those who led me to some resources aswell as the info on the Weber rod.much appreciation. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from darrell@vFish.net Sun Jan 13 10:04:26 2002 g0DG4PW09908 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:04:25 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:04:19 -0600 , Subject: RE: Apologies to the list Don, I think you have me mixed up with my other brother Darryl... I'm DarrellLee, not Darryl Hayashida... I know, you can't tell those orientalsapart... 8^) I seem to have missed the message that sparked Darryl's message... I'venever seen him dissed before (or just don't remember)... perhaps it wasintended for me, his other brother Darrell? I'll agree, while I've never met Darryl (even though we live in neighboringcounties, close by internet standards) I've not had the pleasure to meet himor see any of his finished rods. And yes, his contributions to the listhave been extensive. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:52 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Apologies to the list FWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on Darryl's behalf. I don't know himpersonally but I've done business with him once, on a group cork order. The rings arrived in good condition, albeit a couple days later thanexpected. When I was sifting through the rings I noticed some other stuff inthe bag. A couple of leaders, some extra cork rings and a spool of rodwrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him that I obviuously must be inpossession of someone elses order. He said no, he threw that stuff in just A very nice gesture that won't soon be forgotten-Don D----- Original Message -----From: Coffey, Patrick W Subject: RE: Apologies to the list Darryl, you don't owe any of us an apology, if some one has a personalbeef with you, that doesn't effect us and should not have been brought up onthe list. This is kind of a family and families can't all get along all thetime, squabbles come up from time to time. Shit happens!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: Apologies to the list Yes, this is a matter that never should have made it on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop as faras the list is concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies.Darryl Hayashida Don, think you have me mixed up with my other brother = seen him dissed before (or just don't remember)... perhaps it was = me, his other brother Darrell? agree, while I've never met Darryl (even though we live in neighboring = close by internet standards) I've not had the pleasure to meet him or = extensive. Regards,Darrell LeeAnglers (323)465- DeLoachSent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:52 = listFWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on = once, on a group cork order. The rings arrived in good condition, = couple days later than expected. When I was sifting through the rings = noticed some other stuff in the bag. A couple of leaders, some extra = rings and a spool of rod wrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him = obviuously must be in possession of someone elses order. He said no, = that stuff in just for being patient. A very nice gesture that won't soon = forgotten-Don D ----- Original Message ----- Coffey, Patrick W = Sent: Saturday, January 12, = AMSubject: RE: Apologies to the = list Darryl, you don't owe any of us an = one has a personal beef with you, that doesn't effect us and should = been brought up on the list. This is kind of a family and families = happens!!! Patrick W. = AOG Incident Repair = Phone: 425-234-2901 = 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: = Apologies to the listYes, this is a matter that never should = on the list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the = drop as far as the list is concerned.You all have my most = from jojo@ipa.net Sun Jan 13 10:11:15 2002 g0DGBEW10386 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:11:15 -0600 helo=default) id 16PnE0-0005Hd-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:11:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools The little white plastic ones that have somewhat of a spoon shape, are =narrow with sharper edges on top with which the wraps can be packed as =you are wrapping, then burnished with the rounded edge. Just about any =rodbuilding supply sells them.The agate ones from Golden Witch would, I think, work great, maybe even =best, but don't have an edge with which to pack the threads. M-D What are people using for burnishing tools?RegardsTaylor The little white plastic= have somewhat of a spoon shape, are narrow with sharper edges on top = the wraps can be packed as you are wrapping, then burnished with the = edge. Just about any rodbuilding supply sells =them.The agate ones from = which to pack the threads. M-D ------------------------------hogan What are people using for tools?RegardsTaylor from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 13 10:11:54 2002 g0DGBrW10495 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:11:53 - Subject: RE: Marlborough Show Does anyone have a pic of this hat? I have heard it is very nice, but I wantto see one for myself.Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- K.J. Scott Subject: Marlborough Show Hi, Is anyone going to the show in Massachussetts this coming weekend? We haven't been to one of these mega-shows before and would enjoy seeing afriendly face (as well as just putting a few more faces with the names onthis List). David will be the guy in the Roy Hawk Bamboo hat (and Kat willbe the shorter person trying not to get stepped on....) Feel free toe-mail us for a contact arrangement, or just come by for a rendezvous atthe author's booth on Saturday at eleven. Hope we can hook up, Kathy and David from caneman@clnk.com Sun Jan 13 10:32:25 2002 g0DGWOW11133 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:32:24 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools Taylor, one for her fingernails and it worked much better for burnishing silk). =Since October, I've been using a tool that I bought at the SRG Silent =Auction. It's a brass handled piece of white agate that Goldenwitch =donated to the auction, and it works better than any other I've ever =used. Retired the cuticle tool to the bathroom drawer and use the new =one from goldenwitch now.No financial interest of course.... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Burnishing Tools What are people using for burnishing tools?RegardsTaylor Taylor, cuticle tool (ex wife used one for her fingernails and it worked much = Goldenwitch donated to the auction, and it works better than any other = from goldenwitch now. course.... Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- hogan Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 = AMSubject: Burnishing Tools What are people using for tools?RegardsTaylor from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sun Jan 13 11:00:27 2002 g0DH0QW11694 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:00:26 - Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools I use my finger nails to pack both sides of the wrap, then burnish with =the back of my scissors, or the back of a safety razor blade, whichever =is in my hand. I use my finger nails to pack both = wrap, then burnish with the back of my scissors, or the back of a safety = blade, whichever is in my hand. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Jan 13 11:02:46 2002 g0DH2kW11896 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:02:46 - helo=g2t8c9) id 16Po1p-000313-00; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:02:41 -0800 Subject: Re: The Madison binder I have never had a problem with my Garrison Binder. It is wood and veryrustic looking. I followed the directions carefully on Chris Bogarts sight.Maybe you have seen it, maybe not. But it may be worth checking out again.The right wheel position is crucial. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Madison binder After messing with my Garrison binder for months, I have finally figured out a superior method for binding that I would like to share. I do it by hand,but I have my daughter help me. I begin wrapping by hand at the butt, andafter about a foot she steps in and rotates the blank for me, and providesmost of the "turning power". I also turn the blank, but concentrate ongetting even wraps, supporting the rod, and making sure that everything isbeing bound into place properly. The beauty of this system is that it seems to eliminate virtually everyproblem I had in binding. No twisting, the blank comes out straight, nodanger of breaking anything, and there is no physical or psychologicalstress. She has caught on quickly how to adjust the angle of the blank tokeep the binding going smoothly. It has become a Saturday morning ritual(Maddie, get down here, we need to glue up some rods!). I stumbled across this only in extemis. I was binding a tip by hand, and got a serious cramp in my hand. I called her over for help, and it worked sowell we decided to try it again. The only drawback to this method is thatshe will eventually grow up and I will have to make a Milward binder. jeff schaeffer from jojo@ipa.net Sun Jan 13 11:14:44 2002 g0DHEhW12321 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:14:43 -0600 helo=default) id 16PoDR-0005A3-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:14:41 -0500 Subject: Re: The Madison binder And will you be mass producing these wonderful, little "Maddie" binders forcommercial sale? I particularly like the voice activation part. Once theselittle binders grow into big binders will you accept them in trade foranother? I don't know, but I suspect these are high-maintenance littlemachines, aren't they? M-D P.S. I hope the binder comes with the proper safety precautions on herhands. Disposable gloves of the proper type (nitrile?) would be a niceoption. After messing with my Garrison binder for months, I have finally figured out a superior method for binding that I would like to share. I do it by hand,but I have my daughter help me. I begin wrapping by hand at the butt, andafter about a foot she steps in and rotates the blank for me, and providesmost of the "turning power". I also turn the blank, but concentrate ongetting even wraps, supporting the rod, and making sure that everything isbeing bound into place properly. The beauty of this system is that it seems to eliminate virtually everyproblem I had in binding. No twisting, the blank comes out straight, nodanger of breaking anything, and there is no physical or psychologicalstress. She has caught on quickly how to adjust the angle of the blank tokeep the binding going smoothly. It has become a Saturday morning ritual(Maddie, get down here, we need to glue up some rods!). I stumbled across this only in extemis. I was binding a tip by hand, and got a serious cramp in my hand. I called her over for help, and it worked sowell we decided to try it again. The only drawback to this method is thatshe will eventually grow up and I will have to make a Milward binder. jeff schaeffer from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sun Jan 13 11:36:43 2002 g0DHahW12790 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:36:43 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:36:42 -0600 Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out Montagne's methods greatly increase the complexity of taper design. Wecannormally graph a taper with one line, diameter against length. Hollowingthe rod increases that to two lines, diameter and wall thickness or externaldiameter and internal diameter. There has been mention, but littlediscussion of the additional opportunities offered by both externally andinternally tapering the rods. Montagne adds yet a third dimension, ratio ofheight to width of the rectangles. When I built the rectangular rodsdescribed recently in The Planing Form, I avoided the complexity by buildingthem solid and by maintaining a constant ratio of height to width. It is myunderstanding that his rods are more nearly square at the butt than at thetip, does that make them faster per unit of weight, or slower? I can see some logic for what he has done, can anyone on the list giveimpressions of his rods, perhaps Jan Nystrom? His methods are all of interest, but it is of particular interest to me tolearn more about his gluing and binding. Perhaps, Reed, you could raisesome questions there in future sessions? Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Mike Montagne speaks out All, I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with MikeMontagne ( a great guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in "Trout" (its in my Extracts). A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can befound on my website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- - Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >FromTSmithwick@aol.com Sun Jan 13 12:32:53 2002 Received: from imo- (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id 4.42.207b925c (16336); Sun, 13 Jan 2002 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:32:41 EST rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN In a message dated 1/13/23:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: > Kyle - I think I would want tocast this "superrod" before I spent a lot of time on this. I don't see how youcan take the caster out of the equation. Rods don't cast themselves, theyare cast by human muscle and nerve responses. Suppose the requirementsof superrod are such that no human being can cast it? It may be the best rodin the world, but what good is it? Mr Montagne raises some interesting pointsthat I hadn't thought of before, but I seriously question parts of hisapproach. from his description of how a parabolic rod casts, It's obvious tome that he tried to cast them as if they were fast taper rods, which simplydoesn't work. It seems to me he is fixated on line speed, which IS veryimportant. That does not mean that mass is irrelevant. If I remembercorrectly, the formula for inertia is Mass X Velocity squared. If you watch agood caster trying to make a long cast with an unfamiliar rod you will seethat he is trying to maximize the relationship between the length of line beingfalse cast (Mass) vs line speed (Velocity). Generally, a fast rod will shootmore line with a shorter, faster false cast, and a full flexing rod will want tofalse cast more line at a slower speed, the extra mass allowing the longercast. So why not just false cast more line with the fast rod? Most peoplecan't do it. If you are Steve Rayjud, you will have the strength and techniqueto bend a stiff butt and get some casting power out of it. Most of us can't.To give you a ridiculous example, suppose you took a rod tip section and useda broomstick for the butt section. You would have a really fast rod withshort line lengths. If you tried to carry a lot of line in the air, however, therod would run out of gas. Since only the tip would be flexing, you would onlyget the benefit of the tip's strength, and some leverage from the butt. Ifyou could make the butt flex, you not only get leverage, but the energystored when the rod was bent. I don't know any tournament distancecasters, but I'll bet they all want fast rods. That has nothing to do withcomfortable, efficient fishing. > from channer@frontier.net Sun Jan 1312:37:22 2002 Received: from cadmium.frontier.net (cadmium.frontier.net Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:39:44 -0700 From: channer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C- 1.0 Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools When my dubbing needle broke, I glued a large leather needle into a cut offpiece of butt section, the all purpose rod wrapping tool, packer, burnisherand varnish applicator all in one. john taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools?RegardsTaylor from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Jan 13 12:52:29 2002 g0DIqSW14427 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:52:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Tops from an instrument maker In a message dated 1/9/2002 9:32:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: Kyle PS - I'm still looking for advice on how to build quad forms from those who have done it. Kyle and all,I have never built quad forms, but if you're a brew'n, stop by the cabin after the season opens.MikePS... You will recognize me by my sweat stained Sierra Nevada fishing cap Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ In a message dated1/9/2002 9:32:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, KyleDruey@aol.comwrites: Kyle PS - I'm still looking for advice on how to build quad forms from those who have done it. Kyle and all,I have never built quad forms, but if you're a brew'n, stop by the cabin afterthe season opens.MikePS... You will recognize me by my sweat stained Sierra Nevada fishingcap Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Jan 13 14:50:23 2002 g0DKoMW16516 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:50:22 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4179. . Clean. Processed in 1.532967 secs); 13 Jan 200220:50:20 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools --------------090007060106070005050104 Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interest blah- blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools? Regards Taylor --------------090007060106070005050104 Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that althoughquitecostly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interest blah-blah........................!Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools?RegardsTaylor --------------090007060106070005050104-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Jan 13 14:54:35 2002 g0DKsZW16768 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:54:35 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Casting vs Fishing There was a discussion recently on using weight below the grip to counterbalance the mass of the rod tip. Many came forward with experts' opinion that for optimum casting, you should strive for the least weight in your reel (best is no reel at all). While that may improve one's cast that drags you down faster than a tip-heavy rod. Similarly, with Mike Montagne's striving for the ultimate casting machine (allowing for a firm butt for playing fish) he may arrive at something that may cast better than any other rod, but drain all the enjoyment from the day astream because of sore and tired muscles. Tom S. mentioned mass as a forgotten component of inertia. The trend for less mass started with cane and has reached its zenith in graphite; but mass can indeed be a good. John Merwin wrote in "The New American Trout Fishing" that the old axiom "Let the rod do the work" actually had a basis in fact... with some cane rods. The mass of the tip can actually load the rod when the mass of the line is not sufficient, alone. He even suffested an experiment: wrap some fine lead wire around the tip of a grahphite rod, and some more about a foot down. With the added mass, you can make the short casts that were not possible before. anything else is too busy.: ) -- Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >From (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4179. . Clean. Processed in 1.604166 secs); 13 Jan 200221:01:06 -0000 Received: from du07.cli.ptd.net (HELO ptd.net) 2002 21:01:04 -0000 Message-ID: Date:Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:56:32 -0500 From: "Marty D." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en- US; rv:0.9.4) Montagne speaks out References: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have seen a Montagne rodat a show (Carmine Lisella had it for sale) Although the rod was prettyespecially with his unique reel seat it was very stiff. The rod would cast 90'but not 20' where I catch most of my fish. I like my rods to bend. MartyTSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/13/2 3:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: other statement was interesting when he says that according to the lawsof physics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! >> Kyle - I think I would want to cast this "superrod" before I spent a lot of time on this. I don't see how you can take the caster out of the equation. Rods don't cast themselves, they are cast by human muscle and nerve responses. Suppose the requirements of superrod are such that no humanbeing can cast it? It may be the best rod in the world, but what good is it?Mr Montagne raises some interesting points that I hadn't thought of before, but I seriously question parts of his approach. from his description of how a parabolic rod casts, It's obvious to me that he tried to cast them as if they were fast taper rods, which simply doesn't work. It seems to me he isfixated on line speed, which IS very important. That does not mean that mass is irrelevant. If I remember correctly, the formula for inertia is Mass X Velocity squared. If you watch a good caster trying to make a long castwith an unfamiliar rod you will see that he is trying to maximize the relationship between the length of line being false cast (Mass) vs line speed (Velocity). Generally, a fast rod will shoot more line with a shorter, faster false cast, and a full flexing rod will want to false cast more line at a slower speed, the extra mass allowing the longer cast. So why not just false cast moreline with the fast rod? Most people can't do it. If you are Steve Rayjud, you will have the strength and technique to bend a stiff butt and get some casting power out of it. Most of us can't. To give you a ridiculous example, suppose you took a rod tip section and used a broomstick for the butt section. You would have a really fast rod with short line lengths. If you tried to carry a lot of line in the air, however, the rod would run out of gas. Since only the tip would be flexing, you would only get the benefit of the tip's strength, and some leverage from the butt. If you could make the butt flex, you not only get leverage, but the energy stored when the rod was bent. I don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet they all want fast rods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. from KyleDruey@aol.com Sun Jan 13 15:29:11 2002 g0DLTAW18041 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:29:10 - for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:28:58 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Tom, you make some good points.. providing the voice of experience tobalance the argument. I was just admiring his passion to design the most efficient and powerfully casting rod based on physics and mathematical modeling. It would be quite interesting to see his model. Of course, when you add ahuman to the equation, the mathematical model can be flushed down the toilet. Kyle In a message dated 01/13/2002 10:32:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,TSmithwick writes: In a message dated 1/13/2 3:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes:other statement was interesting when he says that according to the lawsof physics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! >>Kyle - I think I would want to cast this "superrod" before I spent a lot of time on this. I don't see how you can take the caster out of the equation. Rods don't cast themselves, they are cast by human muscle and nerve responses. Suppose the requirements of superrod are such that no human being cancast it? It may be the best rod in the world, but what good is it?Mr Montagne raises some interesting points that I hadn't thought of before, but I seriously question parts of his approach. from his description of how a parabolic rod casts, It's obvious to me that he tried to cast them as if they were fast taper rods, which simply doesn't work. It seems to me he is fixated on line speed, which IS very important. That does not mean that mass is irrelevant. If I remember correctly, the formula for inertia is Mass X Velocity squared. If you watch a good caster trying to make a long cast with an unfamiliar rod you will see that he is trying to maximize the relationship between the length of line being false cast (Mass) vs line speed (Velocity). Generally, a fast rod will shoot more line with a shorter, faster false cast, and a full flexing rod will want to false cast more line at a slower speed, the extra mass allowing the longer cast. So why not just false cast more line with the fast rod? Most people can't do it. If you are Steve Rayjud, you will have the strength and technique to bend a stiff butt and get some casting power out of it. Most of us can't. To give you a ridiculous example, suppose you took a rod tip section and used a broomstick for the butt section. You would have a really fast rod with short line lengths. If you tried to carry a lot of line in the air, however, the rod would run out of gas. Since only the tip would be flexing, you would only get the benefit of the tip's strength, and some leverage from the butt. If you could make the butt flex, you not only get leverage, but the energy stored when the rod was bent. I don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet they all want fast rods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 13 16:09:59 2002 g0DM9wW18999 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:09:58 - Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out Let me add this...Tom is one heck of a caster. What a thrill to see it firsthand. Seeing him and others cast makes me feel stupid. (maybe stupider is abetter word).Bob -----Original Message----- TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks outI don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet they allwant fastrods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sun Jan 13 16:12:16 2002 g0DMCGW19204 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:12:16 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:12:16 -0600 Subject: RE: Casting vs Fishing One of my favorite types of fishing is for smallmouth bass in small streams.It often involves casting relatively large flies for short distances. Ihave not found a graphite rod equal to this task because they won't load,but the mass at the tip of many, but not all, bamboo rods permits them tomake these casts with ease. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Casting vs Fishing There was a discussion recently on using weight below the grip to counterbalance the mass of the rod tip. Many came forward with experts' opinion that for optimum casting, you should strive for the least weight in your reel (best is no reel at all). While that may improve one's cast that drags you down faster than a tip-heavy rod. Similarly, with Mike Montagne's striving for the ultimate casting machine (allowing for a firm butt for playing fish) he may arrive at something that may cast better than any other rod, but drain all the enjoyment from the day astream because of sore and tired muscles. Tom S. mentioned mass as a forgotten component of inertia. The trend for less mass started with cane and has reached its zenith in graphite; but mass can indeed be a good. John Merwin wrote in "The New American Trout Fishing" that the old axiom "Let the rod do the work" actually had a basis in fact... with some cane rods. The mass of the tip can actually load the rod when the mass of the line is not sufficient, alone. He even suffested an experiment: wrap some fine lead wire around the tip of a grahphite rod, and some more about a foot down. With the added mass, you can make the short casts that were not possible before. anything else is too busy.: ) -- Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >Fromcarstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sun Jan 13 16:59:29 2002 Received: from for; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:59:25 +0100 =?Windows-1252?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part message Listers Making a stiff rod is very easy: On a #6 rod just write #4 and hey =presto You have a casting machine. Thats what is being done in the graphite= world. To me the challenge is making a rod that will cast 5 feet of line plus= the leader and STILL be able to lay out almost an entire flyline. Now, I amno tournament caster, but with both my Perfectionist and Para = 15, myfavourite rods, made by myself, I can fish the leader alone and still = throw aCortland 444 DT almost entirely when double hauling. I have seen =competent casters using my rods to lay out whole lines and some of thebacking, = and I kid You not. I simply dont buy that idea of a single type of flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman ------ BODY { BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 125px; = COLOR: #800000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } Making a stiff rod is You have a casting = will cast 5 feet of line plus the leader and STILL be able to = lay out my favourite rods, lines and some of the backing, and I kid You = not. type of taper being "The Best". And if I did, it would surely = be a application/octet-stream; name="LOGO brevpapir.GIF" Content-Transfer- Encoding: base64 Content-ID: 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 t2ZmZjZKuDbKsiyjEaiAX5ZoAwgIADs= ------ Sun Jan 13 17:52:13 2002 Received: from dns1.provide.net Spam-Filter: check_local@dns1.provide.net by digitalanswers.org From: Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:57:17 - 0500 Message-ID: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X- lblan@provide.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I wasrather taken with the statement that mentioned measurement andtemperature in the same sentence. Anyone else out there measuring to 50millionths? Once again, I will volunteer to take those paras! Heaven forbidthey fall into the hands of an unsuspecting fisherman. Note: the ones built byYoung are the worst of the bunch, send these along immediately! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.comSent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:33 PM Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out In a message dated 1/13/2 3:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: other statement was interesting when he says that according tothe laws ofphysics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! >> Kyle - I think I would want to cast this "superrod" before Ispent a lot oftime on this. I don't see how you can take the caster out of theequation.Rods don't cast themselves, they are cast by human muscle and nerveresponses. Suppose the requirements of superrod are such that nohuman beingcan cast it? It may be the best rod in the world, but what good is it?Mr Montagne raises some interesting points that I hadn't thoughtof before,but I seriously question parts of his approach. from hisdescription of how aparabolic rod casts, It's obvious to me that he tried to castthem as if theywere fast taper rods, which simply doesn't work. It seems to mehe is fixatedon line speed, which IS very important. That does not mean that mass isirrelevant. If I remember correctly, the formula for inertia is Mass XVelocity squared. If you watch a good caster trying to make along cast withan unfamiliar rod you will see that he is trying to maximize therelationshipbetween the length of line being false cast (Mass) vs line speed(Velocity).Generally, a fast rod will shoot more line with a shorter, fasterfalse cast,and a full flexing rod will want to false cast more line at aslower speed,the extra mass allowing the longer cast. So why not just falsecast more line with the fast rod? Most people can't do it. If you are SteveRayjud, you willhave the strength and technique to bend a stiff butt and get some castingpower out of it. Most of us can't. To give you a ridiculousexample, supposeyou took a rod tip section and used a broomstick for the buttsection. Youwould have a really fast rod with short line lengths. If youtried to carry alot of line in the air, however, the rod would run out of gas.Since only thetip would be flexing, you would only get the benefit of the tip'sstrength,and some leverage from the butt. If you could make the butt flex, you notonly get leverage, but the energy stored when the rod was bent.I don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet theyall want fastrods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. from mmihalas@mindspring.com Sun Jan 13 20:02:18 2002 g0E22IW24170 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:02:18 - helo=smaug) id 16PwRw-0002za-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:02:13 -0500 Subject: Dickerson 801510 D I had the opportunity last week to cast my neighbor's Dickerson 801510 D.Hard for me to say much about it seeing that I have only cast less than halfa dozen cane rods, but I did really like it. I am currently planing my firstrod (a Dickerson 7012) and was thinking of making the 801510 for mysecondrod. I was throwing a WF5. I have quite a few questions -- help with any or all is appreciated: What line would you expect this rod to take? The owner of the rod seems tounderline everything so I wasn't sure if it might be better with a DT5 orWF6. I mostly fish Triangle Tapers -- any idea what TT would work with thisrod? Is there any significance to the "D" at the end of the model or didDickerson put a "D" at the end of all his model numbers? I am going to get the opportunity to measure the taper on the rod. Sincewith my limited experience I likely can't guess the thickness of the varnish(it is original) anyone have a guess at Dickerson's varnish thickness oneach of the three sections? Anyone have a taper for this rod? I'd like to compare it to my measurementsonce I get them. Any knowledge of the history of this model? Is it as rare as the ownerclaims? Thanks in advance! I'll be sure to share the taper with the list once I getthe chance to measure it. Mike Mihalas from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 13 20:29:24 2002 g0E2TNW25195 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:29:23 - Subject: RE: Dickerson 801510 D Mike:My guess is that it is similar to the 8014, but in a two piececonfiguration. Page 50 of the Dickerson book has a catalog page that liststhe rod as casting a D line. I believe at about .045" that would be a level6. Somebody help us out here. Maybe the D also signifies that. I do not know Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Dickerson 801510 D What line would you expect this rod to take? The owner of the rod seems tounderline everything so I wasn't sure if it might be better with a DT5 orWF6. I mostly fish Triangle Tapers -- any idea what TT would work with thisrod? Is there any significance to the "D" at the end of the model or didDickerson put a "D" at the end of all his model numbers? from thogan@rochester.rr.com Sun Jan 13 20:32:20 2002 g0E2WKW25452 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:32:20 - g0E2WGq14123 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:32:16 - Subject: Male oversize amount I recently purchase a set of ferrules from a reputable dealer. I have =purchased several in the past without any problems. In the most recent =set the male is way oversized for the female. Before I go complaining = RegardsTaylor I recently purchase a set of ferrules = reputable dealer. I have purchased several in the past without any = the most recent set the male is way oversized for the female. Before I = complaining what is a typical amount I should cope with? It was = .020" RegardsTaylor from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sun Jan 13 20:43:03 2002 g0E2h3W25948 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:43:03 - Subject: Re: Male oversize amount Consider that one well known mfr. machines the ferrules to a "zero" fit =plus .0001" or .0002". I can polish fit these ferrules on my lathe ina =couple of minutes. Ferrules come in 1/64" steps (.01625") Sounds like you have the next =size up on the male. Consider that one well known mfr. = ferrules on my lathe ina couple of minutes. Ferrules come in 1/64" steps = like you have the next size up on the male. from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 13 20:53:16 2002 g0E2rFW26341 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:53:15 - Subject: RE: Male oversize amount Do the sides that mount on the bamboo match up? Maybe you have amismatchedset of ferrules, a 13/64 female and 14/64 males. Something like that couldhappen. Also the female may be slightly bell mouthed. Try a drill rod intoit and see how close the expected size is. I find the measuring of thefemale sections to be harder to measure.I think Tony Larson told me that his ferrules usually go .002 over. I findthem easy to fit. It's hard to say. I would send them back figuring that ifyou do reduce the male that much to get a fit, you are weakening the wallsof the male slide quite a bit.Bob----- Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 9:30 PM Subject: Male oversize amount I recently purchase a set of ferrules from a reputable dealer. I havepurchased several in the past without any problems. In the most recent setthe male is way oversized for the female. Before I go complaining what is atypical amount I should cope with? It was oversized by .020" RegardsTaylor that mount on the bamboo match up? Maybe you have a mismatched set of = a 13/64 female and 14/64 males. Something like that could happen. Also = female may be slightly bell mouthed. Try a drill rod into it and see how = the expected size is. I find the measuring of the female sections to be = to measure. Larson told me that his ferrules usually go .002 over. I find them easy = It's hard to say. I would send them back figuring that if you do reduce = that much to get a fit, you are weakening the walls of the male slide = bit.Bob hoganSent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 9:30 amountI recently purchase a set of ferrules = reputable dealer. I have purchased several in the past without any = In the most recent set the male is way oversized for the female. = complaining what is a typical amount I should cope with? It was = .020" RegardsTaylor from rmoon@ida.net Sun Jan 13 21:04:44 2002 g0E34hW26798 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:04:44 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Great analysis Tom. I wish that more people understood it. Ralph TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/13/2 3:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: other statement was interesting when he says that according to the lawsofphysics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! >> Kyle - I think I would want to cast this "superrod" before I spent a lot oftime on this. I don't see how you can take the caster out of the equation.Rods don't cast themselves, they are cast by human muscle and nerveresponses. Suppose the requirements of superrod are such that no humanbeingcan cast it? It may be the best rod in the world, but what good is it?Mr Montagne raises some interesting points that I hadn't thought ofbefore,but I seriously question parts of his approach. from his description of howaparabolic rod casts, It's obvious to me that he tried to cast them as iftheywere fast taper rods, which simply doesn't work. It seems to me he isfixatedon line speed, which IS very important. That does not mean that mass isirrelevant. If I remember correctly, the formula for inertia is Mass XVelocity squared. If you watch a good caster trying to make a long castwithan unfamiliar rod you will see that he is trying to maximize the relationshipbetween the length of line being false cast (Mass) vs line speed (Velocity).Generally, a fast rod will shoot more line with a shorter, faster false cast,and a full flexing rod will want to false cast more line at a slower speed,the extra mass allowing the longer cast. So why not just false cast morelinewith the fast rod? Most people can't do it. If you are Steve Rayjud, you willhave the strength and technique to bend a stiff butt and get some castingpower out of it. Most of us can't. To give you a ridiculous example, supposeyou took a rod tip section and used a broomstick for the butt section. Youwould have a really fast rod with short line lengths. If you tried to carry alot of line in the air, however, the rod would run out of gas. Since only thetip would be flexing, you would only get the benefit of the tip's strength,and some leverage from the butt. If you could make the butt flex, you notonly get leverage, but the energy stored when the rod was bent.I don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet they all want fastrods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. --?IôO from piscator@macatawa.org Sun Jan 13 21:13:09 2002 g0E3D8W27223 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:13:08 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Reed, Thanks for this piece. Mr. Montagne sounds like a tinkerer and inovator inthe finest rodmaker tradition. And while we all might not agree with hisphilosophy, he sounds like he was always true to it and spent a godawfulamount of time and effort to build rods his way. It really shows how if youhave a firm grasp on what you want to build, and unlimited determination,you can go through hell and back to make it happen with a smile on your faceall the while. There are guys and gals out there now pursuing wildly differing goals inorder to build the "perfect" fly rod. This guy is an inspiration to all ofus. But he's full of shite wrt parabolics. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Mike Montagne speaks out All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( agreat guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found onmy website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- -Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sun Jan 13 21:15:26 2002 g0E3FQW27441 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:15:26 - Subject: Re: Dickerson 801510 D Mike, back in the 50's it was usual to designate lines with a "letter" whichwas a measure of diameter rather than weight as it is today. The way itworked was this:A was a #9, B= #8, C= #7, D= #6, E= #5, etc.So an HDH was a #6 DT line, and a GBF (my first line!) was a #8WF. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Jan 13 22:11:09 2002 g0E4B7W28763 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 22:11:07 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I'm not as interested in what Mike considers to be his perfect rod as the means of establshing ANYBODY's perfect rod and his math seems to be agood start. Tony At 10:12 PM 1/13/02 -0500, Brian Creek wrote: Reed, Thanks for this piece. Mr. Montagne sounds like a tinkerer and inovator inthe finest rodmaker tradition. And while we all might not agree with hisphilosophy, he sounds like he was always true to it and spent a godawfulamount of time and effort to build rods his way. It really shows how if youhave a firm grasp on what you want to build, and unlimited determination,you can go through hell and back to make it happen with a smile on yourfaceall the while. There are guys and gals out there now pursuing wildly differing goals inorder to build the "perfect" fly rod. This guy is an inspiration to all ofus. But he's full of shite wrt parabolics. Brian----- Original Message -----From: "Reed Curry" Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 5:36 PMSubject: Mike Montagne speaks out All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( agreat guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found onmy website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- -Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from ddeloach@pcisys.net Sun Jan 13 23:16:34 2002 g0E5GXW29937 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:16:33 - env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: Apologies to the list Yep, sorry I had the wrong Darrell...senility isn't possible at 29 is =it?-Don Subject: RE: Apologies to the list Don, I think you have me mixed up with my other brother Darryl... I'm =Darrell Lee, not Darryl Hayashida... I know, you can't tell those =orientals apart... 8^) I seem to have missed the message that sparked Darryl's message... =I've never seen him dissed before (or just don't remember)... perhaps it =was intended for me, his other brother Darrell? I'll agree, while I've never met Darryl (even though we live in =neighboring counties, close by internet standards) I've not had the =pleasure to meet him or see any of his finished rods. And yes, his =contributions to the list have been extensive. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 Angling, collecting & rod making books at: = -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:52 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Apologies to the list FWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on Darryl's behalf. I don't know =him personally but I've done business with him once, on a group cork =order. The rings arrived in good condition, albeit a couple days later than =expected. When I was sifting through the rings I noticed some other =stuff in the bag. A couple of leaders, some extra cork rings and a spool =of rod wrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him that I obviuously must =be in possession of someone elses order. He said no, he threw that stuff =in just for being patient. A very nice gesture that won't soon be forgotten-Don D Subject: RE: Apologies to the list Darryl, you don't owe any of us an apology, if some one has a =personal beef with you, that doesn't effect us and should not have been =brought up on the list. This is kind of a family and families can't all =get along all the time, squabbles come up from time to time. Shit =happens!!! -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: Apologies to the list Yes, this is a matter that never should have made it on the =list.Rather than giving a rebuttal here, I will let the matter drop =as far as the list is concerned.You all have my most sincere apologies. Yep, sorry I had the wrong = possible at 29 is it?-Don ----- Original Message ----- Darrell = =DNHayashida@aol.com ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 = AMSubject: RE: Apologies to the =list Don, think you have me mixed up with my other brother = = never seen him dissed before (or just don't remember)... perhaps it = intended for me, his other brother Darrell? agree, while I've never met Darryl (even though we live in neighboring = counties, close by internet standards) I've not had the pleasure to = have been extensive. Regards,Darrell LeeAnglers =(323)465- DeLoachSent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:52 = listFWIW, I will provide a rebuttal on = once, on a group cork order. The rings arrived in good = couple days later than expected. When I was sifting through the = noticed some other stuff in the bag. A couple of leaders, some extra = rings and a spool of rod wrapping thread. I emailed him to tell him = obviuously must be in possession of someone elses order. He said no, = threw that stuff in just for being patient. A very nice gesture that won't soon = forgotten-Don D ----- Original Message ----- = Coffey, Patrick W Sent: Saturday, January 12, = 11:46 AMSubject: RE: Apologies to = list Darryl, you don't owe any of us an = some one has a personal beef with you, that doesn't effect us and = not have been brought up on the list. This is kind of a family and = families can't all get along all the time, squabbles come up from = time. Shit happens!!! Patrick W. = AOG Incident Repair = Phone: = = = 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: = Apologies to the listYes, this = that never should have made it on the list.Rather than = = from jojo@ipa.net Sun Jan 13 23:25:55 2002 g0E5PsW00342 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:25:54 -0600 helo=default) id 16Pzd1-0003kD-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:25:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Apologies to the list Obviously, it is. }B^)> M-D . . . senility isn't possible at 29 is it?-Don Obviously, it = M-D Don= . . . senility isn't possible at 29 = it?-Don from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 13 23:39:26 2002 g0E5dPW00803 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:39:25 -0600 (authenticated) Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:40:55 -0800 alspicer99@yahoo.com,tjtrodmaker@yahoo.comSubject: Re: question about snakebrand guides Jim, I spent the weekend with Mike and Sue McCoy. I have to tell you, they areeven kinder, gentler, and more gracious people in person than over thetelephone. Our booths were right across from each other at a rodmakingshow, and I thoroughly enjoyed getting to know them. And!! the "new and improved" Snake Brand Guides are, believe it or not,much nicer than the original models. The feet are more narrow and flatter(more flat?). The slopes at the ends of the feet are more gradual. The newprocess means all the feet are exactly, and I do mean "exactly" the samelength. When your stuff comes in, you will be glad you have patiently waited Best,Harry James Harris wrote: All, received my latest order from Snake yesterday. Mike said I it would takeawhile and it did. I like blued agate strippers and Mike seems to like blueingthem more or less as needed. They usually arrive in 2 wks. This latest orderwas several weeks over due. I'm assuming because of a down machine. Thequality and ease with which the guides wrap, right out of the box, is worththe wait for me. And besides, the McCoys are the nicest people you couldever hope to meet. I really hope nobody gets miffed and decides to changebrands over an anomalous delay. The people and the product are the best. Sincerely,Jim "Bob Maulucci" 01/09/02 05:13PM >>> Guys:I am too awaiting an order. I had to order a small bunch of Snake Brandguides from Russ at Golden Witch last month. I had used up my old stock ofSnake Brand guides from the group order the list ran two years ago. Theguides are different now, and the newer Snake Brand guides are evenbetter.Nicer profile on the feet. I am very impressed. They are worth the wait.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 2:56 PM Subject: Re: question about snakebrand guides al and everyone else involved, i talked to the mccoysmonday there was a machine breakdown and will ship in2wks. they were very embarrassed about this. i offeredencouragement as i was able. i think the guides areworth waiting for. i hope no one is going to beinconvienianced. i will get them out as soon as ireceive them. timothy --- al spicer wrote: Timothy, How do things stand with the snakebrand guidesorder?I'm curious only because I have 3 blanks to starton. Thanks, Al __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 14 00:18:02 2002 g0E6I1W01708 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:18:01 - (authenticated) Sun, 13 Jan 2002 22:19:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools --------------B300D0DF71AF1E210EC96A22 It is neat looking, Marty... I've got one here onmy desk. Russ sent it to me as a donation for theSRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction thisfall. I suspect it works just as well as the capof a Bic pen. Harry "Marty D." wrote: Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brassburnisher that although quite costly ($30) looksquite cool on the bench. No finantial interestblah- blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishingtools?RegardsTaylor -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------B300D0DF71AF1E210EC96A22 it to me as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction "Marty D." wrote:Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brassburnisherthat although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantialinterest blah-blah........................! Martytaylor hogan wrote: Whatare people using for burnishing tools?RegardsTaylor -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------B300D0DF71AF1E210EC96A22-- from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jan 14 00:24:26 2002 g0E6OPW02027 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:24:25 -0600 helo=default) id 16Q0Xg-0007nd-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:24:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools Such an extremely well used burnishing tool should go pretty cheaply, =right? I mean, it'll probably be grooved, and all by October. M-D It is neat looking, Marty... I've got one here on my desk. Russ sent =it to me as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent =Auction this fall. I suspect it works just as well as the cap of a Bic = Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that =although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial = What are people using for burnishing tools?RegardsTaylor Such an = burnishing tool should go pretty cheaply, right? I mean, it'll probably = grooved, and all by October. M-D Harry= as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction = Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped = burnisher that although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the = What are people using for = tools?RegardsTaylor from rkrees@mcn.net Mon Jan 14 00:39:50 2002 g0E6dnW02501 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:39:50 -0600 helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16Q0mW-0007AT-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 22:39:44 -0800 Subject: HarryHave you ever seen a women who has been left over for about $250.00 ofsnakeguides! She has your address!.Ron from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jan 14 01:20:22 2002 g0E7KKW03931 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:20:21 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:20:15 -0800 Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:20:14 GMT Subject: Re: Male oversize amount FILETIME=[E9842410:01C19CCB] At .020" the ferrules would have been an obvious mismatch. The mfr shouldbe contacted so they can send the right size - probably just a case of the males from one bin 'skipping' to another. If you mean .002" then that is normal for some(Cortland for one) not for others. Out of the ferrules I have used over the years from oversize to instant fit, Cortland Super Z .002", CSE .001", Uni Ferrules .0005 and Bellinger .0005 to 0 oversize.Haven't tried any of Tony's yet. Either Tony. I use mostly Leonard type so that limits me to CSE when I choose to buy ferrules.A.J. From: "taylor hogan" Subject: Male oversize amountDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:30:21 -0500 I recently purchase a set of ferrules from a reputable dealer. I have purchased several in the past without any problems. In the most recent set the male is way oversized for the female. Before I go complaining what is a typical amount I should cope with? It was oversized by .020" RegardsTaylor _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jan 14 01:27:28 2002 g0E7RSW04235 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:27:28 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:27:22 -0800 Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:27:22 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Dickerson 801510 D FILETIME=[E8606F20:01C19CCC] I think I can help as I have made 8 or 10 of them. They are a slow 5 or a good 4 wt rod. If you must use a modern taper line I would try a TT4/5 first. Nothing at all like any of the 4 variations of the 8014 I have seen. The rod was tapered in his early career before the whole'fast' thing spun out of control. The rod turns to mush if you use truncated ferrules. Full length in either the porky swiss style or the svelte Leonard style.:) That is trait in common with some of the F.E. Thomas rods. Thomas used the butt ferrule as a lever in his slower set of dry fly tapers. Sorry, no computer program to back that up....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: Dickerson 801510 DDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:29:14 -0500 Mike:My guess is that it is similar to the 8014, but in a two piececonfiguration. Page 50 of the Dickerson book has a catalog page that liststhe rod as casting a D line. I believe at about .045" that would be a level6. Somebody help us out here. Maybe the D also signifies that. I do not know Best regards, Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: Dickerson 801510 D What line would you expect this rod to take? The owner of the rod seems tounderline everything so I wasn't sure if it might be better with a DT5 orWF6. I mostly fish Triangle Tapers -- any idea what TT would work with thisrod? Is there any significance to the "D" at the end of the model or didDickerson put a "D" at the end of all his model numbers? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jan 14 01:38:19 2002 g0E7cIW04518 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:38:18 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:38:04 -0800 Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:38:04 GMT Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out FILETIME=[670213F0:01C19CCE] 50 millionths ? I am going to have to stop blowing Porter out my nose! This really slays me! His description was right on about how a para rod works though. Much of the conversation seems concerned with casting as in a tounament sense. A fishing rod is a different creature. There is no one perfect rod, flat out, no argument, hasn't been, isn't now and never will be. You tell me that if 'someone' determines that a taper, say a super fast taper, is the one holy grail of casting efficiency that I am supposed to shelve my 9ft 4wt leonard that will drop a fly anywhere on the creek and offer a delicate tip combined with superior line control? Hey! I am starting to get used to this porter through the schnoz thing! LOLA.J. From: "Larry Blan" Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks outDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:57:17 - 0500 I was rather taken with the statement that mentioned measurementand temperature in the same sentence. Anyone else out theremeasuring to 50 millionths? Once again, I will volunteer to take those paras! Heaven forbidthey fall into the hands of an unsuspecting fisherman. Note: theones built by Young are the worst of the bunch, send these alongimmediately! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.comSent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:33 PM Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out In a message dated 1/13/2 3:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: other statement was interesting when he says that according tothe laws ofphysics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! >> Kyle - I think I would want to cast this "superrod" before Ispent a lot oftime on this. I don't see how you can take the caster out of theequation.Rods don't cast themselves, they are cast by human muscle and nerveresponses. Suppose the requirements of superrod are such that nohuman beingcan cast it? It may be the best rod in the world, but what good is it?Mr Montagne raises some interesting points that I hadn't thoughtof before,but I seriously question parts of his approach. from hisdescription of how aparabolic rod casts, It's obvious to me that he tried to castthem as if theywere fast taper rods, which simply doesn't work. It seems to mehe is fixatedon line speed, which IS very important. That does not mean that mass isirrelevant. If I remember correctly, the formula for inertia is Mass XVelocity squared. If you watch a good caster trying to make along cast withan unfamiliar rod you will see that he is trying to maximize therelationshipbetween the length of line being false cast (Mass) vs line speed(Velocity).Generally, a fast rod will shoot more line with a shorter, fasterfalse cast,and a full flexing rod will want to false cast more line at aslower speed,the extra mass allowing the longer cast. So why not just falsecast more linewith the fast rod? Most people can't do it. If you are SteveRayjud, you willhave the strength and technique to bend a stiff butt and get some casting power out of it. Most of us can't. To give you a ridiculousexample, supposeyou took a rod tip section and used a broomstick for the buttsection. Youwould have a really fast rod with short line lengths. If youtried to carry alot of line in the air, however, the rod would run out of gas.Since only thetip would be flexing, you would only get the benefit of the tip'sstrength,and some leverage from the butt. If you could make the butt flex, you not only get leverage, but the energy stored when the rod was bent.I don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet theyall want fastrods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jan 14 01:48:39 2002 g0E7mdW04859 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:48:39 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:48:33 -0800 Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:48:33 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Burnishing Tools FILETIME=[DDCFF000:01C19CCF] Russ also sells the cane handled brass (no agate) burnisher from the fertile mind of our own Dave LeClair. Dave was kind enough to send me one yearsago and I think it epitomizes functional beauty. NFI blah, blahA.J. From: "Marty D." Subject: Re: Burnishing ToolsDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:45:41 -0500 Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that althoughquite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interestblah-blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools? Regards Taylor _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from Lazybee45@aol.com Mon Jan 14 03:01:38 2002 g0E91cW05731 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 03:01:38 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out In a message dated 1/14/02 1:39:03 AM Central Standard Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: Criminal act! I hope you caught it in a glass! (no I don't want it!) wasting porter like that! shame shame! mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jan 14 05:06:46 2002 g0EB6jW07120 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 05:06:45 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4179. . Clean. Processed in 5.191726 secs); 14 Jan 200211:06:43 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools --------------070201030907070606040309 It does Harry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when using Gossomar silk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote: It is neat looking, Marty... I've got one here on my desk. Russ sent it to me as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction this fall. I suspect it works just as well as the cap of a Bic pen. Harry "Marty D." wrote: Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interest blah- blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools?Regards Taylor -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------070201030907070606040309 It does Harry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when usingGossomarsilk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote:It is as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction this "Marty D." wrote: Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brassburnisher that although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench.No finantial interest blah-blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using Taylor -- http://www.canerods.com/ http://www.fbcwin.com/ --------------070201030907070606040309-- from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jan 14 05:19:20 2002 g0EBJIW07457 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 05:19:18 - for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:19:25 GMT Subject: Re: Hayashida/Blunt/etc. Look Guys Without feeling that I could get to get into the history of this thing, itwas inevitable that some members would get cross on behalf of others. I'min a really difficult position here, and I hope everyone will now let thesubject drop. Toclarify the whole sorry saga would mean my copying 105 mails to this list.Whilst I'm sure there are a few who might enjoy some jaw- droppingrevelations, it would be an enormous strain on bandwidth. I agree that it was questionable to use the list, but goodness knows thereare quite a few non-rodmaking items in the daily delivery, and honestly, I've tried very hard over years to sort this matter out independently. As Isaid before, those who know me from old will know that I had a very goodreason for using the list: not least, a concern for others. Suffice to say that the effort MAY have brought satisfactory closure tosomething that has been dragging miserably on for something like three orfour years. That in itself should tell you something. If it hasn't, andthanks to several list members who do NOT share the views of recent listcontributors, I now have a very clear alternative route to closure. I have considerable regard for Mr Hayashida's rodmaking expertise: that hasnever been in doubt. I believe all those members with whom he has dealt in astraight-forward way should continue to support him. It may be that recentevents will suggest that brethren should always be clear in theirexpectations, and cautious in their dealings. Again, thank-you to all those who have written in support. Let's just leave it at that ....... please. John Normal0DocumentEmail Look Guys= Without feeling that I could get to get into the =history of some members would get cross on behalf of others. I'm in a really =difficultposition here, and I hope everyone will now let the subject drop. To = clarify the whole sorry saga would mean my copying =105 mailsto this list. Whilst I'm sure there are a few who might enjoy some =jaw- droppingrevelations, it would be an enormous strain on =bandwidth. I agree that it was questionable to use the list, butgoodness knows there are quite a few non-rodmaking items in the daily =delivery,and honestly, I’ve tried very hard over years to sort this matter =out independently.As I said before, those who know me from old will know that I had a very =goodreason for using the list: not least, a concern for =others. Suffice to say that the effort MAY have brought =satisfactoryclosure to something that has been dragging miserably on for something =likethree or four years. That in itself should tell you something. If it =hasn't,and thanks to several list members who do NOT share the views of recent =listcontributors, I now have a very clear alternative route to =closure. I have considerable regard for Mr Hayashida's =rodmaking expertise:that has never been in doubt. I believe all those members with whom he =hasdealt in a straight-forward way should continue to support him. It may =be thatrecent events will suggest that brethren should always be clear in theirexpectations, and cautious in their dealings. Again, thank-you to all those who have written in =support. Let's just leave it at that ....... =please. John= from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jan 14 06:12:19 2002 g0ECCIW08205 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:12:18 - Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:12:11 GMT Subject: RE: Burnishing Tools On burnishing Gossamer: I made a little plastic roller tool for burnishing Gossamer, which I findotherwise tends to fluff. The little roller does the compacting of thethreads very well, but doesn't drag up the fibers. French Polish, which tacks off within a second or two. Before actual dryingof the surface, I then spin the wrap in my fingers. This sticks down anyloose fibers, and offers a perfect surface for varnish. There have neverbeen any problems with compatibility between the French Polish andsubsequent varnish. Just recently bought a box of 20 full Gossamer spools in assorted colours,mostly golds, for ?5 at a draper's sale. Happy day. John Cooper -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools It does Harry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when usingGossomar silk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote: It is neat looking, Marty... I've got one here on my desk. Russ sent it tome as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction thisfall. I suspect it works just as well as the cap of a Bic pen.Harry"Marty D." wrote:Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that althoughquite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interestblah-blah........................! Martytaylor hogan wrote:What are people using for burnishing tools?Regards Taylor---- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- 0DocumentEmail On=burnishingGossamer: I =made alittle plastic roller tool for burnishing Gossamer, which I find =otherwise tendsto fluff. The little roller does the compacting of the threads very =well, butdoesn’t drag up the fibers. Fo=r thebest possible laying of threads, I coat before varnishing with Pale =FrenchPolish, which tacks off within a second or two. Before actual drying of =thesurface, I then spin the wrap in my fingers. This sticks down any loose =fibers,and offers a perfect surface for varnish. There have never been any =problemswith compatibility between the French Polish and subsequent =varnish. Ju=st recentlybought a box of 20 full Gossamer spools in assorted colours, mostly = draper’s sale. Happy day. Jo=hn Cooper -----OriginalMessage-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: 14 January 2002 =11:02 Cc: =thogan@rochester.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Burnishing =Tools It=doesHarry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when =usingGossomar silk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote: It=is neat as adonation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction this = I suspect it works just as well as the cap of a Bic pen. = Harry "MartyD." wrote: Russ at GWhas a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that although quite =costly ($30)looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interest =blah- blah........................!Marty taylor hoganwrote: Whatare people using for burnishing tools?Regards Taylor --= http://www.canerods.com/ --Bamboo Rods -- -- =Our from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jan 14 06:42:00 2002 g0ECfxW08665 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:41:59 - (63.228.47.20) mmihalas@mindspring.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dickerson 801510 D My hat's off to AJ on this one. Very perceptive indeed.( time consuming alsoin light of the fact the rods must be built)-Dave ----Original Message----- mmihalas@mindspring.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Dickerson 801510 D I think I can help as I have made 8 or 10 of them. They are a slow 5 or agood 4 wt rod. If you must use a modern taper line I would try a TT4/5first. Nothing at all like any of the 4 variations of the 8014 I have seen.The rod was tapered in his early career before the whole'fast' thing spunout of control. The rod turns to mush if you use truncated ferrules. Fulllength in either the porky swiss style or the svelte Leonard style.:) Thatis trait in common with some of the F.E. Thomas rods. Thomas used thebuttferrule as a lever in his slower set of dry fly tapers. Sorry, no computerprogram to back that up....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: Dickerson 801510 DDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:29:14 -0500 Mike:My guess is that it is similar to the 8014, but in a two piececonfiguration. Page 50 of the Dickerson book has a catalog page that liststhe rod as casting a D line. I believe at about .045" that would be a level 6. Somebody help us out here. Maybe the D also signifies that. I do notknow Best regards, Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: Dickerson 801510 D What line would you expect this rod to take? The owner of the rod seemstounderline everything so I wasn't sure if it might be better with a DT5 orWF6. I mostly fish Triangle Tapers -- any idea what TT would work with this rod? Is there any significance to the "D" at the end of the model or didDickerson put a "D" at the end of all his model numbers? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jan 14 06:45:23 2002 g0ECjNW08852 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:45:23 - (63.228.47.20) Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out St. Paul said" each man must work out his own salvation in fear andtrembling) I think it also applies to flyrod tapers.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out 50 millionths ? I am going to have to stop blowing Porter out my nose! Thisreally slays me! His description was right on about how a para rod worksthough. Much of the conversation seems concerned with casting as in a tounamentsense. A fishing rod is a different creature. There is no one perfect rod,flat out, no argument, hasn't been, isn't now and never will be. You tell me that if 'someone' determines that a taper, say a super fast taper, is theone holy grail of casting efficiency that I am supposed to shelve my 9ft 4wt leonard that will drop a fly anywhere on the creek and offer a delicate tipcombined with superior line control? Hey! I am starting to get used to thisporter through the schnoz thing! LOLA.J. From: "Larry Blan" Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks outDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:57:17 - 0500 I was rather taken with the statement that mentioned measurementand temperature in the same sentence. Anyone else out theremeasuring to 50 millionths? Once again, I will volunteer to take those paras! Heaven forbidthey fall into the hands of an unsuspecting fisherman. Note: theones built by Young are the worst of the bunch, send these alongimmediately! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:33 PM Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out In a message dated 1/13/2 3:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: other statement was interesting when he says that according tothe laws ofphysics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! >> Kyle - I think I would want to cast this "superrod" before Ispent a lot oftime on this. I don't see how you can take the caster out of theequation.Rods don't cast themselves, they are cast by human muscle and nerveresponses. Suppose the requirements of superrod are such that nohuman beingcan cast it? It may be the best rod in the world, but what good is it?Mr Montagne raises some interesting points that I hadn't thoughtof before,but I seriously question parts of his approach. from hisdescription of how aparabolic rod casts, It's obvious to me that he tried to castthem as if theywere fast taper rods, which simply doesn't work. It seems to mehe is fixatedon line speed, which IS very important. That does not mean that mass isirrelevant. If I remember correctly, the formula for inertia is Mass XVelocity squared. If you watch a good caster trying to make along cast withan unfamiliar rod you will see that he is trying to maximize therelationshipbetween the length of line being false cast (Mass) vs line speed(Velocity).Generally, a fast rod will shoot more line with a shorter, fasterfalse cast,and a full flexing rod will want to false cast more line at aslower speed,the extra mass allowing the longer cast. So why not just falsecast more linewith the fast rod? Most people can't do it. If you are SteveRayjud, you willhave the strength and technique to bend a stiff butt and get some casting power out of it. Most of us can't. To give you a ridiculousexample, supposeyou took a rod tip section and used a broomstick for the buttsection. Youwould have a really fast rod with short line lengths. If youtried to carry alot of line in the air, however, the rod would run out of gas.Since only thetip would be flexing, you would only get the benefit of the tip'sstrength,and some leverage from the butt. If you could make the butt flex, you not only get leverage, but the energy stored when the rod was bent.I don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet theyall want fastrods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from harms1@pa.net Mon Jan 14 07:27:15 2002 g0EDREW09795 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:27:15 - , Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" All, Carsten is correct, I believe. The challange of creating a taper that castsas well up short as it does at distance is indeed THE challange. But assoon as the mathematicians and physicists begin to fly along those loftyplanes of theoretical formulae, the question of the "perfect" rod becomes anacademic issue--ie., out of touch with the immesurable (and inescapable) explanation for the "perfect" rod, I doubt very much that the resulting rodwill please more fishermen than those that have been built by others in thepast. No doubt, Mr. Montagne is an innovator and an excellent maker (likeso many others who subscribe to this list), but do not imagine thatMontagne's theories will break through some kind of barrier-of-ignorance,enabling us to build rods that out-perform those that already please us. The relationship between theories in physics and actual fly rods is always atenuous matter, and so far, nobody has been able to discover with certaintywhich theories of physics govern a fly rod's "action" (whatever that term istaken to mean). There are many theoretical factors, but few of these,especially in their relationships to one another, are completely understood.And, more to the point, no theory of taper-design is going to predict howwell YOU will like a particular rod. Do not misunderstand my point. I am not arguing for less thinking, only forless expectation that ANY design theory will produce the "perfect" rod. Theconcept itself is nothing but foolishness as long as there is a human being(not a casting machine) imparting energy to the butt of the rod in question.Some of us will always prefer a Winston or a Dickerson to a Garrison or aLeonard, and just as many of us will have it the other way around. MichaelMontagne's design theories (as brilliant as they may be) will not resolvethis. In the end, I still want a rod that will cast as beautifully andeffortlessly at fifteen feet as at sixty, and no theory of physics ormathematical model is going to be able to predict which rod will do thatbest IN MY HAND. So far, the world of rod-making has much to thank Garrison, Leonard,Winstonand Dickerson for, and we can only wonder if Montagne's design theories cansupersede any of that. It seems doubtful, unless one becomes moreenamoredof academic theorizing than fishing the rod. Trial and error, pondering, and constant "tweaking" produce the best rods around. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: "The Perfect Rod" Listers Making a stiff rod is very easy: On a #6 rod just write #4 and hey prestoYou have a casting machine. Thats what is being done in the graphite world. To me the challenge is making a rod that will cast 5 feet of line plus theleaderand STILL be able to lay out almost an entire flyline. Now, I am no tournament caster, but with both my Perfectionist and Para15,my favourite rods, made by myself, I can fish the leader alone and stillthrowa Cortland 444 DT almost entirely when double hauling. I have seencompetentcasters using my rods to lay out whole lines and some of the backing, and Ikid You not. I simply dont buy that idea of a single type of taper being "The Best". AndifI did, it would surely be a PHY taper:-) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com & daniaflyrods@mail.dksplitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman from channer@frontier.net Mon Jan 14 07:59:43 2002 g0EDxgW10599 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:59:42 - for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:59:43 - Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Yeah, But!!!!!I would still like to hear from someone impartial who has cast ,oh,say,ALL of his models! Better yet, I would like to cast them myself. I willhave to reread the article, but I don't recall any mention of whetherthey would cast short or not. I think I'll withhold judgement until suchtime as i can either talk to someone with firsthand knowledge or form anopinion for myself.john WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, Carsten is correct, I believe. The challange of creating a taper that castsas well up short as it does at distance is indeed THE challange. But assoon as the mathematicians and physicists begin to fly along those loftyplanes of theoretical formulae, the question of the "perfect" rod becomesanacademic issue--ie., out of touch with the immesurable (and inescapable) explanation for the "perfect" rod, I doubt very much that the resulting rodwill please more fishermen than those that have been built by others in thepast. No doubt, Mr. Montagne is an innovator and an excellent maker (likeso many others who subscribe to this list), but do not imagine thatMontagne's theories will break through some kind of barrier-of-ignorance,enabling us to build rods that out-perform those that already please us. The relationship between theories in physics and actual fly rods is always atenuous matter, and so far, nobody has been able to discover withcertaintywhich theories of physics govern a fly rod's "action" (whatever that termistaken to mean). There are many theoretical factors, but few of these,especially in their relationships to one another, are completely understood.And, more to the point, no theory of taper-design is going to predict howwell YOU will like a particular rod. Do not misunderstand my point. I am not arguing for less thinking, only forless expectation that ANY design theory will produce the "perfect" rod. Theconcept itself is nothing but foolishness as long as there is a human being(not a casting machine) imparting energy to the butt of the rod inquestion.Some of us will always prefer a Winston or a Dickerson to a Garrison or aLeonard, and just as many of us will have it the other way around. MichaelMontagne's design theories (as brilliant as they may be) will not resolvethis. In the end, I still want a rod that will cast as beautifully andeffortlessly at fifteen feet as at sixty, and no theory of physics ormathematical model is going to be able to predict which rod will do thatbest IN MY HAND. So far, the world of rod-making has much to thank Garrison, Leonard,Winstonand Dickerson for, and we can only wonder if Montagne's design theoriescansupersede any of that. It seems doubtful, unless one becomes moreenamoredof academic theorizing than fishing the rod. Trial and error, pondering, and constant "tweaking" produce the best rods around. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Carsten Jorgensen" Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:03 PMSubject: "The Perfect Rod" Listers Making a stiff rod is very easy: On a #6 rod just write #4 and hey prestoYou have a casting machine. Thats what is being done in the graphite world. To me the challenge is making a rod that will cast 5 feet of line plus theleaderand STILL be able to lay out almost an entire flyline. Now, I am no tournament caster, but with both my Perfectionist and Para15,my favourite rods, made by myself, I can fish the leader alone and stillthrowa Cortland 444 DT almost entirely when double hauling. I have seencompetentcasters using my rods to lay out whole lines and some of the backing, and Ikid You not. I simply dont buy that idea of a single type of taper being "The Best". AndifI did, it would surely be a PHY taper:-) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com & daniaflyrods@mail.dksplitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 14 08:09:52 2002 g0EE9oW11027 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:09:50 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Below is what Jan Nystrom had to say last April about his Montagne rod. Hopefully he can give us some information on its ability to cast both short and long.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -------- Original Message --------Subject: Re: Montagne rods Hi Reed, I have a mint Montagne 8ft3, 2 pieces. This rod is really a rectangle built rodand not a square built. This rod is unique in every way, from its skeleton reelseat with exposed bamboo shaft to the beautifully machined brass ferrule plug. Itis hard to find one of these beautiful rods today. I have compared this rod to acouple of Edwards Quads I own and the Montagne rod is extremely good in pin pointcasting and there is also a feeling of more strength. Best Regards,Jan Nystrom from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Jan 14 08:14:19 2002 g0EEEJW11387 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:14:19 - IAA16856 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:14:18 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Regardlesss of whether the super-fast rods are really good fishingtools or not, his concepts of the rectangular rod and the corrugatedhollowing are neat. Probably not what I can do by hand in the basement, but worth thinking about. Anyone every build a poor-mans quad in a rectangle?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Jan 14 08:59:42 2002 g0EExgW13359 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:59:42 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2112.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA10630; ETAtAhRokMWAISqBmKK/9m3isSFJ5MXVygIVALfw1o6dx15/pEGrB4aqtJckH1FD Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" 09:12:23 -0500 All of the discussion has me thinking about the dimensions of therectangle. Did he make make all of his rods with the same ratio oflength and width and was that ratio retained along the whole length ofthe rod? Have only seen one, and that was at a California fly show,along time ago. So many possibilities. Jerry Young from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Jan 14 09:27:28 2002 g0EFRRW14786 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:27:27 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:27:27 -0600 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out You could do it as a PMQ. You could even vary two of the three dimensionsof taper as Montagne did, diameter and H:W ratio, although hollowing wouldbe tough. You could vary all three if you built it on a Morgan Mill. Thehollowing would be easy enough if you were willing to settle for flutingrather than corrugating, and wall thickness could be varied over the lengthof the rod. Someone clever could probably even figure out how to corrugatethem, it evidently is independent of the other processes. To give Montagne some credit for his tapers it should be remembered thatmany, perhaps most, were probably designed for western steelhead fishingwhere distance is at a far greater premium than delicacy and accuracy. Aheavy butt is also useful for fighting fish. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Regardlesss of whether the super-fast rods are really good fishingtools or not, his concepts of the rectangular rod and the corrugatedhollowing are neat. Probably not what I can do by hand in the basement, but worth thinking about. Anyone every build a poor-mans quad in a rectangle?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Jan 14 10:05:44 2002 g0EG5hW16981 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:05:43 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from ajthramer@hotmail.com Mon Jan 14 01:48:39 2002 g0E7mdW04859 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:48:39 - Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:48:33 -0800 Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:48:33 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Burnishing Tools FILETIME=[DDCFF000:01C19CCF] Russ also sells the cane handled brass (no agate) burnisher from the fertile mind of our own Dave LeClair. Dave was kind enough to send me one yearsago and I think it epitomizes functional beauty. NFI blah, blahA.J. From: "Marty D." Subject: Re: Burnishing ToolsDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:45:41 -0500 Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that althoughquite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interestblah-blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools? Regards Taylor _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from Lazybee45@aol.com Mon Jan 14 03:01:38 2002 g0E91cW05731 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 03:01:38 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out In a message dated 1/14/02 1:39:03 AM Central Standard Time, ajthramer@hotmail.com writes: Criminal act! I hope you caught it in a glass! (no I don't want it!) wasting porter like that! shame shame! mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Jan 14 05:06:46 2002 g0EB6jW07120 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 05:06:45 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4179. . Clean. Processed in 5.191726 secs); 14 Jan 200211:06:43 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools --------------070201030907070606040309 It does Harry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when using Gossomar silk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote: It is neat looking, Marty... I've got one here on my desk. Russ sent it to me as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction this fall. I suspect it works just as well as the cap of a Bic pen. Harry "Marty D." wrote: Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interest blah- blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using for burnishing tools?Regards Taylor -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------070201030907070606040309 It does Harry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when usingGossomarsilk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote:It is as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction this "Marty D." wrote: Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brassburnisher that although quite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench.No finantial interest blah-blah........................! Marty taylor hogan wrote: What are people using Taylor -- http://www.canerods.com/ http://www.fbcwin.com/ --------------070201030907070606040309-- from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jan 14 05:19:20 2002 g0EBJIW07457 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 05:19:18 - for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:19:25 GMT Subject: Re: Hayashida/Blunt/etc. Look Guys Without feeling that I could get to get into the history of this thing, itwas inevitable that some members would get cross on behalf of others. I'min a really difficult position here, and I hope everyone will now let thesubject drop. Toclarify the whole sorry saga would mean my copying 105 mails to this list.Whilst I'm sure there are a few who might enjoy some jaw- droppingrevelations, it would be an enormous strain on bandwidth. I agree that it was questionable to use the list, but goodness knows thereare quite a few non-rodmaking items in the daily delivery, and honestly, I've tried very hard over years to sort this matter out independently. As Isaid before, those who know me from old will know that I had a very goodreason for using the list: not least, a concern for others. Suffice to say that the effort MAY have brought satisfactory closure tosomething that has been dragging miserably on for something like three orfour years. That in itself should tell you something. If it hasn't, andthanks to several list members who do NOT share the views of recent listcontributors, I now have a very clear alternative route to closure. I have considerable regard for Mr Hayashida's rodmaking expertise: that hasnever been in doubt. I believe all those members with whom he has dealt in astraight-forward way should continue to support him. It may be that recentevents will suggest that brethren should always be clear in theirexpectations, and cautious in their dealings. Again, thank-you to all those who have written in support. Let's just leave it at that ....... please. John Normal0DocumentEmail Look Guys= Without feeling that I could get to get into the =history of some members would get cross on behalf of others. I'm in a really =difficultposition here, and I hope everyone will now let the subject drop. To = clarify the whole sorry saga would mean my copying =105 mailsto this list. Whilst I'm sure there are a few who might enjoy some =jaw- droppingrevelations, it would be an enormous strain on =bandwidth. I agree that it was questionable to use the list, butgoodness knows there are quite a few non-rodmaking items in the daily =delivery,and honestly, I’ve tried very hard over years to sort this matter =out independently.As I said before, those who know me from old will know that I had a very =goodreason for using the list: not least, a concern for =others. Suffice to say that the effort MAY have brought =satisfactoryclosure to something that has been dragging miserably on for something =likethree or four years. That in itself should tell you something. If it =hasn't,and thanks to several list members who do NOT share the views of recent =listcontributors, I now have a very clear alternative route to =closure. I have considerable regard for Mr Hayashida's =rodmaking expertise:that has never been in doubt. I believe all those members with whom he =hasdealt in a straight-forward way should continue to support him. It may =be thatrecent events will suggest that brethren should always be clear in theirexpectations, and cautious in their dealings. Again, thank-you to all those who have written in =support. Let's just leave it at that ....... =please. John= from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jan 14 06:12:19 2002 g0ECCIW08205 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:12:18 - Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:12:11 GMT Subject: RE: Burnishing Tools On burnishing Gossamer: I made a little plastic roller tool for burnishing Gossamer, which I findotherwise tends to fluff. The little roller does the compacting of thethreads very well, but doesn't drag up the fibers. French Polish, which tacks off within a second or two. Before actual dryingof the surface, I then spin the wrap in my fingers. This sticks down anyloose fibers, and offers a perfect surface for varnish. There have neverbeen any problems with compatibility between the French Polish andsubsequent varnish. Just recently bought a box of 20 full Gossamer spools in assorted colours,mostly golds, for ?5 at a draper's sale. Happy day. John Cooper -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools It does Harry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when usingGossomar silk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote: It is neat looking, Marty... I've got one here on my desk. Russ sent it tome as a donation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction thisfall. I suspect it works just as well as the cap of a Bic pen.Harry"Marty D." wrote:Russ at GW has a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that althoughquite costly ($30) looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interestblah-blah........................! Martytaylor hogan wrote:What are people using for burnishing tools?Regards Taylor---- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- 0DocumentEmail On=burnishingGossamer: I =made alittle plastic roller tool for burnishing Gossamer, which I find =otherwise tendsto fluff. The little roller does the compacting of the threads very =well, butdoesn’t drag up the fibers. Fo=r thebest possible laying of threads, I coat before varnishing with Pale =FrenchPolish, which tacks off within a second or two. Before actual drying of =thesurface, I then spin the wrap in my fingers. This sticks down any loose =fibers,and offers a perfect surface for varnish. There have never been any =problemswith compatibility between the French Polish and subsequent =varnish. Ju=st recentlybought a box of 20 full Gossamer spools in assorted colours, mostly = draper’s sale. Happy day. Jo=hn Cooper -----OriginalMessage-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: 14 January 2002 =11:02 Cc: =thogan@rochester.rr.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Burnishing =Tools It=doesHarry, but cannot be used to "naw" on in frustration when =usingGossomar silk. Marty Harry Boyd wrote: It=is neat as adonation for the SRG 2002, so it will be in the Silent Auction this = I suspect it works just as well as the cap of a Bic pen. = Harry "MartyD." wrote: Russ at GWhas a pretty neat Agate tipped brass burnisher that although quite =costly ($30)looks quite cool on the bench. No finantial interest =blah- blah........................!Marty taylor hoganwrote: Whatare people using for burnishing tools?Regards Taylor --= http://www.canerods.com/ --Bamboo Rods -- -- =Our from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jan 14 06:42:00 2002 g0ECfxW08665 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:41:59 - (63.228.47.20) mmihalas@mindspring.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Dickerson 801510 D My hat's off to AJ on this one. Very perceptive indeed.( time consuming alsoin light of the fact the rods must be built)-Dave ----Original Message----- mmihalas@mindspring.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Dickerson 801510 D I think I can help as I have made 8 or 10 of them. They are a slow 5 or agood 4 wt rod. If you must use a modern taper line I would try a TT4/5first. Nothing at all like any of the 4 variations of the 8014 I have seen.The rod was tapered in his early career before the whole'fast' thing spunout of control. The rod turns to mush if you use truncated ferrules. Fulllength in either the porky swiss style or the svelte Leonard style.:) Thatis trait in common with some of the F.E. Thomas rods. Thomas used thebuttferrule as a lever in his slower set of dry fly tapers. Sorry, no computerprogram to back that up....A.J. From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: Dickerson 801510 DDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:29:14 -0500 Mike:My guess is that it is similar to the 8014, but in a two piececonfiguration. Page 50 of the Dickerson book has a catalog page that liststhe rod as casting a D line. I believe at about .045" that would be a level 6. Somebody help us out here. Maybe the D also signifies that. I do notknow Best regards, Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: Dickerson 801510 D What line would you expect this rod to take? The owner of the rod seemstounderline everything so I wasn't sure if it might be better with a DT5 orWF6. I mostly fish Triangle Tapers -- any idea what TT would work with this rod? Is there any significance to the "D" at the end of the model or didDickerson put a "D" at the end of all his model numbers? _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from dnorl@qwest.net Mon Jan 14 06:45:23 2002 g0ECjNW08852 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:45:23 - (63.228.47.20) Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out St. Paul said" each man must work out his own salvation in fear andtrembling) I think it also applies to flyrod tapers.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out 50 millionths ? I am going to have to stop blowing Porter out my nose! Thisreally slays me! His description was right on about how a para rod worksthough. Much of the conversation seems concerned with casting as in a tounamentsense. A fishing rod is a different creature. There is no one perfect rod,flat out, no argument, hasn't been, isn't now and never will be. You tell me that if 'someone' determines that a taper, say a super fast taper, is theone holy grail of casting efficiency that I am supposed to shelve my 9ft 4wt leonard that will drop a fly anywhere on the creek and offer a delicate tipcombined with superior line control? Hey! I am starting to get used to thisporter through the schnoz thing! LOLA.J. From: "Larry Blan" Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks outDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:57:17 - 0500 I was rather taken with the statement that mentioned measurementand temperature in the same sentence. Anyone else out theremeasuring to 50 millionths? Once again, I will volunteer to take those paras! Heaven forbidthey fall into the hands of an unsuspecting fisherman. Note: theones built by Young are the worst of the bunch, send these alongimmediately! Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu TSmithwick@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:33 PM Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out In a message dated 1/13/2 3:13:45 PM, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: other statement was interesting when he says that according tothe laws ofphysics there is one superior taper (regardless of pesonal taste)! >> Kyle - I think I would want to cast this "superrod" before Ispent a lot oftime on this. I don't see how you can take the caster out of theequation.Rods don't cast themselves, they are cast by human muscle and nerveresponses. Suppose the requirements of superrod are such that nohuman beingcan cast it? It may be the best rod in the world, but what good is it?Mr Montagne raises some interesting points that I hadn't thoughtof before,but I seriously question parts of his approach. from hisdescription of how aparabolic rod casts, It's obvious to me that he tried to castthem as if theywere fast taper rods, which simply doesn't work. It seems to mehe is fixatedon line speed, which IS very important. That does not mean that mass isirrelevant. If I remember correctly, the formula for inertia is Mass XVelocity squared. If you watch a good caster trying to make along cast withan unfamiliar rod you will see that he is trying to maximize therelationshipbetween the length of line being false cast (Mass) vs line speed(Velocity).Generally, a fast rod will shoot more line with a shorter, fasterfalse cast,and a full flexing rod will want to false cast more line at aslower speed,the extra mass allowing the longer cast. So why not just falsecast more linewith the fast rod? Most people can't do it. If you are SteveRayjud, you willhave the strength and technique to bend a stiff butt and get some casting power out of it. Most of us can't. To give you a ridiculousexample, supposeyou took a rod tip section and used a broomstick for the buttsection. Youwould have a really fast rod with short line lengths. If youtried to carry alot of line in the air, however, the rod would run out of gas.Since only thetip would be flexing, you would only get the benefit of the tip'sstrength,and some leverage from the butt. If you could make the butt flex, you not only get leverage, but the energy stored when the rod was bent.I don't know any tournament distance casters, but I'll bet theyall want fastrods. That has nothing to do with comfortable, efficient fishing. _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from harms1@pa.net Mon Jan 14 07:27:15 2002 g0EDREW09795 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:27:15 - , Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" All, Carsten is correct, I believe. The challange of creating a taper that castsas well up short as it does at distance is indeed THE challange. But assoon as the mathematicians and physicists begin to fly along those loftyplanes of theoretical formulae, the question of the "perfect" rod becomes anacademic issue--ie., out of touch with the immesurable (and inescapable) explanation for the "perfect" rod, I doubt very much that the resulting rodwill please more fishermen than those that have been built by others in thepast. No doubt, Mr. Montagne is an innovator and an excellent maker (likeso many others who subscribe to this list), but do not imagine thatMontagne's theories will break through some kind of barrier-of-ignorance,enabling us to build rods that out-perform those that already please us. The relationship between theories in physics and actual fly rods is always atenuous matter, and so far, nobody has been able to discover with certaintywhich theories of physics govern a fly rod's "action" (whatever that term istaken to mean). There are many theoretical factors, but few of these,especially in their relationships to one another, are completely understood.And, more to the point, no theory of taper-design is going to predict howwell YOU will like a particular rod. Do not misunderstand my point. I am not arguing for less thinking, only forless expectation that ANY design theory will produce the "perfect" rod. Theconcept itself is nothing but foolishness as long as there is a human being(not a casting machine) imparting energy to the butt of the rod in question.Some of us will always prefer a Winston or a Dickerson to a Garrison or aLeonard, and just as many of us will have it the other way around. MichaelMontagne's design theories (as brilliant as they may be) will not resolvethis. In the end, I still want a rod that will cast as beautifully andeffortlessly at fifteen feet as at sixty, and no theory of physics ormathematical model is going to be able to predict which rod will do thatbest IN MY HAND. So far, the world of rod-making has much to thank Garrison, Leonard,Winstonand Dickerson for, and we can only wonder if Montagne's design theories cansupersede any of that. It seems doubtful, unless one becomes moreenamoredof academic theorizing than fishing the rod. Trial and error, pondering, and constant "tweaking" produce the best rods around. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: "The Perfect Rod" Listers Making a stiff rod is very easy: On a #6 rod just write #4 and hey prestoYou have a casting machine. Thats what is being done in the graphite world. To me the challenge is making a rod that will cast 5 feet of line plus theleaderand STILL be able to lay out almost an entire flyline. Now, I am no tournament caster, but with both my Perfectionist and Para15,my favourite rods, made by myself, I can fish the leader alone and stillthrowa Cortland 444 DT almost entirely when double hauling. I have seencompetentcasters using my rods to lay out whole lines and some of the backing, and Ikid You not. I simply dont buy that idea of a single type of taper being "The Best". AndifI did, it would surely be a PHY taper:-) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com & daniaflyrods@mail.dksplitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman from channer@frontier.net Mon Jan 14 07:59:43 2002 g0EDxgW10599 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:59:42 - for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:59:43 - Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Yeah, But!!!!!I would still like to hear from someone impartial who has cast ,oh,say,ALL of his models! Better yet, I would like to cast them myself. I willhave to reread the article, but I don't recall any mention of whetherthey would cast short or not. I think I'll withhold judgement until suchtime as i can either talk to someone with firsthand knowledge or form anopinion for myself.john WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, Carsten is correct, I believe. The challange of creating a taper that castsas well up short as it does at distance is indeed THE challange. But assoon as the mathematicians and physicists begin to fly along those loftyplanes of theoretical formulae, the question of the "perfect" rod becomesanacademic issue--ie., out of touch with the immesurable (and inescapable) explanation for the "perfect" rod, I doubt very much that the resulting rodwill please more fishermen than those that have been built by others in thepast. No doubt, Mr. Montagne is an innovator and an excellent maker (likeso many others who subscribe to this list), but do not imagine thatMontagne's theories will break through some kind of barrier-of-ignorance,enabling us to build rods that out-perform those that already please us. The relationship between theories in physics and actual fly rods is always atenuous matter, and so far, nobody has been able to discover withcertaintywhich theories of physics govern a fly rod's "action" (whatever that termistaken to mean). There are many theoretical factors, but few of these,especially in their relationships to one another, are completely understood.And, more to the point, no theory of taper-design is going to predict howwell YOU will like a particular rod. Do not misunderstand my point. I am not arguing for less thinking, only forless expectation that ANY design theory will produce the "perfect" rod. Theconcept itself is nothing but foolishness as long as there is a human being(not a casting machine) imparting energy to the butt of the rod inquestion.Some of us will always prefer a Winston or a Dickerson to a Garrison or aLeonard, and just as many of us will have it the other way around. MichaelMontagne's design theories (as brilliant as they may be) will not resolvethis. In the end, I still want a rod that will cast as beautifully andeffortlessly at fifteen feet as at sixty, and no theory of physics ormathematical model is going to be able to predict which rod will do thatbest IN MY HAND. So far, the world of rod-making has much to thank Garrison, Leonard,Winstonand Dickerson for, and we can only wonder if Montagne's design theoriescansupersede any of that. It seems doubtful, unless one becomes moreenamoredof academic theorizing than fishing the rod. Trial and error, pondering, and constant "tweaking" produce the best rods around. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Carsten Jorgensen" Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:03 PMSubject: "The Perfect Rod" Listers Making a stiff rod is very easy: On a #6 rod just write #4 and hey prestoYou have a casting machine. Thats what is being done in the graphite world. To me the challenge is making a rod that will cast 5 feet of line plus theleaderand STILL be able to lay out almost an entire flyline. Now, I am no tournament caster, but with both my Perfectionist and Para15,my favourite rods, made by myself, I can fish the leader alone and stillthrowa Cortland 444 DT almost entirely when double hauling. I have seencompetentcasters using my rods to lay out whole lines and some of the backing, and Ikid You not. I simply dont buy that idea of a single type of taper being "The Best". AndifI did, it would surely be a PHY taper:-) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com & daniaflyrods@mail.dksplitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 14 08:09:52 2002 g0EE9oW11027 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:09:50 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Below is what Jan Nystrom had to say last April about his Montagne rod. Hopefully he can give us some information on its ability to cast both short and long.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -------- Original Message --------Subject: Re: Montagne rods Hi Reed, I have a mint Montagne 8ft3, 2 pieces. This rod is really a rectangle built rodand not a square built. This rod is unique in every way, from its skeleton reelseat with exposed bamboo shaft to the beautifully machined brass ferrule plug. Itis hard to find one of these beautiful rods today. I have compared this rod to acouple of Edwards Quads I own and the Montagne rod is extremely good in pin pointcasting and there is also a feeling of more strength. Best Regards,Jan Nystrom from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Jan 14 08:14:19 2002 g0EEEJW11387 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:14:19 - IAA16856 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:14:18 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Regardlesss of whether the super-fast rods are really good fishingtools or not, his concepts of the rectangular rod and the corrugatedhollowing are neat. Probably not what I can do by hand in the basement, but worth thinking about. Anyone every build a poor-mans quad in a rectangle?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Jan 14 08:59:42 2002 g0EExgW13359 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:59:42 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2112.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA10630; ETAtAhRokMWAISqBmKK/9m3isSFJ5MXVygIVALfw1o6dx15/pEGrB4aqtJckH1FD Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" 09:12:23 -0500 All of the discussion has me thinking about the dimensions of therectangle. Did he make make all of his rods with the same ratio oflength and width and was that ratio retained along the whole length ofthe rod? Have only seen one, and that was at a California fly show,along time ago. So many possibilities. Jerry Young from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Jan 14 09:27:28 2002 g0EFRRW14786 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:27:27 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:27:27 -0600 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out You could do it as a PMQ. You could even vary two of the three dimensionsof taper as Montagne did, diameter and H:W ratio, although hollowing wouldbe tough. You could vary all three if you built it on a Morgan Mill. Thehollowing would be easy enough if you were willing to settle for flutingrather than corrugating, and wall thickness could be varied over the lengthof the rod. Someone clever could probably even figure out how to corrugatethem, it evidently is independent of the other processes. To give Montagne some credit for his tapers it should be remembered thatmany, perhaps most, were probably designed for western steelhead fishingwhere distance is at a far greater premium than delicacy and accuracy. Aheavy butt is also useful for fighting fish. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Regardlesss of whether the super-fast rods are really good fishingtools or not, his concepts of the rectangular rod and the corrugatedhollowing are neat. Probably not what I can do by hand in the basement, but worth thinking about. Anyone every build a poor-mans quad in a rectangle?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Jan 14 10:05:44 2002 g0EG5hW16981 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:05:43 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I finally got around to reading the piece, nice job Reed. Thanks I agree with Peter, as for ego and being full of excrement - I think that isa prerequisite of being a rodmaker. So, I'm certain his rods are top rate. He has some very interesting ideas, but when reading (only once, I need toread it about 50 more times to understand it all) a couple things sent offalarms:1. There is an ideal taper - Huh? based on what, that's like saying thereis an ideal car.2. Parabolics are an ill-behaved instrument - In his hands maybe, he doesn'tknow how to cast it. On a side note, don't send your ill-behaved para's toLarry Blan, he won't properly dispose of them. Last time he got some to getrid of, they got away from him (they are ill-behaved) and still are on theloose. Send them to me, I have a Para-disposamatic (tm) in my garage.3. With the accuracy he is stating, I hope he did all his beveling in atemperature controlled environment.4. The program he talks about would be interesting to see, I like the"bendform" thing, but he leaves out the force applied, (or didn't talk aboutit in this article). This is certaintly not a constant and can not betreated as one. always the cynic,tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Reed Mr Montagne has a real problem with his self-esteem, doesn't he? He has far too much of it! That interview may be the greatest load of horseshit I have waded through in years, and believe me, I throw out enough personally to fertilise the whole Gobi Desert! Takes one, they say, to know one. But the rest of the website is excellent, as usual; it is one of myfavourite reads, no pun intended. Cheers Peter from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Jan 14 10:51:20 2002 g0EGpKW19402 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:51:20 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 16:55:04 UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:51:13 -0800 Subject: RE: Hayashida/Blunt/etc. I am struggling to let the matter drop myself, and I am teetering ondeleting this message or sending it. But! I see there is no mention of the attempts I made to set the matterright. Suffice it to say I am out at least $350.00 in out of pocket expenses- with no mention of the time consumed to finish not one but two rods in myattempts to complete the barter. Mr. Cooper, you yourself cannot deny thatarod was delivered to your house. You decided not to accept it in time beforeit was sent back. When I got it back the rod was vandalized - the ferrulescrushed by pliers and the handle and reel seat drilled through with holes. trying to salvage the parts, so I could not claim damage from customs orwhoever it was that did it. I have sent the original rod back to Mr. Cooper. Hopefully this will end thematter. As for the $350.00, if I never hear from Mr. Cooper again that willbe payment enough.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:20 AM Subject: Re: Hayashida/Blunt/etc. Look GuysWithout feeling that I could get to get into the history of this thing, itwas inevitable that some members would get cross on behalf of others.I'min a really difficult position here, and I hope everyone will now let thesubject drop. To clarify the whole sorry saga would mean my copying 105 mails to this list.Whilst I'm sure there are a few who might enjoy some jaw- droppingrevelations, it would be an enormous strain on bandwidth.I agree that it was questionable to use the list, but goodness knowsthereare quite a few non-rodmaking items in the daily delivery, and honestly,I've tried very hard over years to sort this matter out independently. AsI said before, those who know me from old will know that I had a very goodreason for using the list: not least, a concern for others.Suffice to say that the effort MAY have brought satisfactory closure tosomething that has been dragging miserably on for something like three orfour years. That in itself should tell you something. If it hasn't, andthanks to several list members who do NOT share the views of recent listcontributors, I now have a very clear alternative route to closure.I have considerable regard for Mr Hayashida's rodmaking expertise: thathas never been in doubt. I believe all those members with whom he hasdealt in a straight-forward way should continue to support him. It may bethat recent events will suggest that brethren should always be clear intheir expectations, and cautious in their dealings.Again, thank-you to all those who have written in support.Let's just leave it at that ....... please.John This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from OSEGAL@glcc.com Mon Jan 14 10:54:52 2002 g0EGspW19807 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:54:51 - with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:54:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Superglue accelerator Any store that sells model airplanes, cars, trains, etc. Hobbyists stores =in general. Oscar Where can you buy superglue accelerator? Hardwares and Lowes don't seem= Any store that sells model airplanes, cars, trains, = Hobbyists stores in general. Oscar from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 14 11:23:43 2002 g0EHNgW22374 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:23:43 -0600 (authenticated) Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:24:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Burnishing Tools --------------F94D61DB084E445691D5B4B5 MD, Yep, I suspect that rascal will be completely worn out Nah, just kidding! Tempting as it may be to "thoroughlycheck out" the donations for SRG -- you know, just to makesure the brethren are getting quality products, there issomething in me that won't let me do that. Besides, I'm not s'posed to be running this show anymore. I don't know why folks would send me stuff. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: Such an extremely well used burnishing tool should gopretty cheaply, right? I mean, it'll probably be grooved,and all by October. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------F94D61DB084E445691D5B4B5 MD, out by SRG! "thoroughly check out" the donations for SRG -- you know, just to makesure the brethren are getting quality products, there is something in methat won't let me do that. Jojo DeLancier wrote: an extremely well used burnishing tool should go pretty cheaply, right?I mean, it'll probably be grooved, and all byOctober. --Harry Boyd --------------F94D61DB084E445691D5B4B5-- from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Mon Jan 14 11:54:10 2002 g0EHs9W24460 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:54:09 - for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:54:07 -0500 Subject: "The Perfect Rod" Hi, What is the average cast compared to approach distant of the fish. Wouldn'tthat be the determining facture for the perfect rod? 30' to 40 feet. Just athought. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 12:18:43 2002 g0EIIgW25810 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:18:42 -0600 14 Jan 2002 10:18:41 PST Subject: the perfect flyrod i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 12:21:45 2002 g0EILiW26098 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:21:44 -0600 14 Jan 2002 10:21:44 PST Subject: p.s. - the perfect flyrod p.s. - almost for got about the elongated rectangularhex type construction! timothy i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Mon Jan 14 12:34:59 2002 g0EIYwW26944 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:34:58 - Subject: Re: Marlborough Show I'll be there and will have my own booth, but we spoke about that a whileago. If anyone would like to stop by and say hello, I'd love to meet you! John KenealyMountain Valley Flies----- Original Message ----- Subject: Marlborough Show Hi, Is anyone going to the show in Massachussetts this coming weekend? We haven't been to one of these mega-shows before and would enjoy seeingafriendly face (as well as just putting a few more faces with the names onthis List). David will be the guy in the Roy Hawk Bamboo hat (and Kat will be the shorter person trying not to get stepped on....) Feel free toe-mail us for a contact arrangement, or just come by for a rendezvous atthe author's booth on Saturday at eleven. Hope we can hook up, Kathy and David from jourdoktorn@chello.se Mon Jan 14 14:02:20 2002 g0EK2JW01282 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:02:19 - (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 licensed2583c0617b67bae473a44216fd3d32d) Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:01:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" --------------020506020004070806000209 Hi Reed, Claude and all other friends on the list,I have been missing all discussions about Montagne rods allthough I check my mail every day. I was so used to see everyone talking about Montague rods and did not see the discussion really concerned Montagnerods.Anyhow, some of the list had questions about the ratio between sides in the rectangle. This is what I wrote about a year ago to a list member after I did some measurements. This rod is 8 ft 3 inch long assembled. Just in front of the handle:0.386/0.358 = 1.08. Just below the female ferrule 36.61 inches above theformer measurement: 0.295/0.259 = 1.14. Just above the male ferrule on the top section, 5.39 inches apart from thelast measurement: 0.260/0.230 = 1.13 and finally just below the tip top0.79 inches from the very end of the tip top and 47.05 inches above themeasurement just above the male female: 0.096/0.062 = 1.55. Total handlelength is 9.84 inches. I hope I did not confuse you all with all measurements.So it was a little trickier than a fixed relation between the flats. My casting experience of this rod: I have never cast a rod that powerful withsuch ease. It feels like casting a rod made for a line weight 2-3 line classeslighter. If casting under windy condition it also shines. It is much easier tothrow your line where you aim because the rod is much less sensitive to howthe wind curves the line in the back cast. It seems this rod does everythingbetter than other rods - well it does not. I do some fishing in small creeksand this rod is difficult for me to use in these waters. Here I love my LeonardBaby Catskill, Payne 96 or Young Midge. If I need to cast only with my wrist(trees and bushes around you) I love the parabolic rods like E.C. Powell, PHYParabolic and Pezon & Michel. I am primarily a fly fisherman even though I was in the Swedish NationalCasting team years ago. My father 1932 started the rod and reel collection Iinhereted and now continue to build (now 36 Leonards and several Paynes ,Youngs, Dickersons, Gillums, FE Thomas, Thomas & Thomas, Edwards,Winstons, Nichols, Wheelers, H. Hawes, Orvis, Hardys, Pezon & Michel,Brunners etc. A total of 178 rods). For about 40 years I have fished most ofthe rods that are less than 60 years old so I do have some kind of reference. Best Regards,Jan Reed Curry wrote: Below is what Jan Nystrom had to say last April about his Montagne rod. Hopefully he can give us some information on its ability to cast both short and long.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -------- Original Message --------Subject: Re: Montagne rodsDate: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 00:33:16 +0200From: Jan Nystråm CC: rodmakers References: Hi Reed, I have a mint Montagne 8ft3, 2 pieces. This rod is really a rectangle built rodand not a square built. This rod is unique in every way, from its skeleton reelseat with exposed bamboo shaft to the beautifully machined brass ferrule plug. Itis hard to find one of these beautiful rods today. I have compared this rod to acouple of Edwards Quads I own and the Montagne rod is extremely good in pin pointcasting and there is also a feeling of more strength. Best Regards,Jan Nystrom --------------020506020004070806000209 Hi Reed, Claude and all other friends on the list, checkmy mail every day. I was so used to see everyone talking about Montaguerodsand did not see the discussion really concerned Montagne rods.Anyhow, some of the list had questions about the ratio between sides in therectangle. This is what I wrote about a year ago to a list member after Idid some measurements.This rod is 8 ft 3 inch long assembled. Just in front of thehandle: 0.386/0.358 = 1.08. Just below the female ferrule 36.61inches above the former measurement: 0.295/0.259 = 1.14.Just above the male ferrule on the top section, 5.39 inches apart fromthe last measurement: 0.260/0.230 = 1.13 and finally just belowthe tip top 0.79 inches from the very end of the tip top and 47.05 inchesabove the measurement just above the male female: 0.096/0.062 =1.55. Total handle length is 9.84 inches. I hope I did not confuse youall with all measurements. So it was a little trickier than a fixed relationbetween the flats.My casting experience of this rod: I have nevercast a rod that powerful with such ease. It feels like casting a rod made fora line weight 2-3 line classes lighter. If casting under windy condition it alsoshines. It is much easier to throw your line where you aim because the rod ismuch less sensitive to how the wind curves the line in the back cast. It seems this rod does everythingbetter than other rods - well it does not. I do some fishing in small creeksand this rod is difficult for me to use in these waters. Here I love my LeonardBaby Catskill, Payne 96 or Young Midge. If I need to cast only with my wrist(trees and bushes around you) I love the parabolic rods like E.C. Powell, PHYParabolic and Pezon & Michel. I am primarily a fly fisherman eventhough I was in the Swedish National Casting team years ago. My father 1932started the rod and reel collection I inhereted and now continue to build (now36 Leonards and several Paynes , Youngs, Dickersons, Gillums, FE Thomas,Thomas & Thomas, Edwards, Winstons, Nichols, Wheelers, H. Hawes,Orvis, Hardys, Pezon & Michel, Brunners etc. A total of 178 rods). Forabout 40 years I have fished most of the rods that are less than 60 yearsold so I do have some kind of reference. BestRegards,Jan Reed Curry wrote:Below is whatJan Nystrom had to say last April about his Montagne rod. Hopefully he cangive us some information on its ability to cast both short and long. Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Montagne rods Hi Reed, builtrod and not a square built. This rod is unique in every way, from its skeletonreel seat with exposed bamboo shaft to the beautifully machined brass ferruleplug. It is hard to find one of these beautiful rods today. I have compared this rodto a couple of Edwards Quads I own and the Montagne rod is extremely good in pinpoint casting and there is also a feeling of more strength. Best Regards, Jan Nystrom --------------020506020004070806000209-- from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Mon Jan 14 15:46:33 2002 g0ELkWW07723 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 15:46:32 - Subject: Dimensions of REC Reeseat Does anyone know the spacer diameter to fit a REC model CRN reel seat? Ihave not ordered the reel seat yet, but am working on turning the spacer,currently oversized at 0.740". RECs web page has a spec sheet, but it onlylists bore size and length. I have emailed them with a request. but do nothave a reply yet. Thanks in advance! KurtNixa, MO from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 14 16:11:22 2002 g0EMBLW09254 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:11:21 - (authenticated) Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:12:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Dimensions of REC Reeseat Kurt,Quit now!! The OD of that filler is .720". Harry Kurt Clement wrote: Does anyone know the spacer diameter to fit a REC model CRN reel seat? I have not ordered the reel seat yet, but am working on turning the spacer,currently oversized at 0.740". RECs web page has a spec sheet, but it onlylists bore size and length. I have emailed them with a request. but do nothave a reply yet. Thanks in advance! KurtNixa, MO --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from lkoeser@ceva.net Mon Jan 14 17:51:37 2002 g0ENpaW13833 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:51:36 - Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:43:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I am an engineer and as such can understand Garrison's approach to roddesign, especially as it applies to developing other rods based upon theproperties of a cantilever beam. Considering the manual effort required tomake the calculations, we need to applaud his efforts. Simplistic, buthardly crude. Montagne, imposing the concepts of ballistics, bendform andother new terminology, not familiar to my engineering background has madethe design of a rod equivalent to launching a spacecraft to Mars.Regardless, both Garrison and Montagne and all the rest of the genre of roddesigners have neglected to include in any of their calculations, the energysource for moving the rod. The arm motion of a flyfisherman. And thecorrector best practice of delivering said energy. For myself, I am not a very goodcaster, but I am able to catch fish; using any rod I have had in mypossession at the time. I'm sure any of you can say the same. I think thatMr. Montagne has spent too much time trying to design the perfect rod thatmaybe only he will be able to use. I will settle for what most members ofthis list make or my own and find a stream to use it. I think I have alreadyspent too much time in responding to what I will call techspeak.Lee ----- Original Mes sage ----- Subject: Mike Montagne speaks out All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( agreat guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found onmy website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- -Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Jan 14 18:52:10 2002 g0F0q9W15674 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:52:09 - Tue, 15 Jan 2002 00:52:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Lee,Well said, I'm sure Mike Montagne is a very interesting and nice personhowever after reading Reed's well written article I've concluded that thisis nothing more than theoretic mathematical gymnastics. The "perfecttaper",perfect for what? Define the variables, the largest of which has to be theone on the end of the handle.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I am an engineer and as such can understand Garrison's approach to roddesign, especially as it applies to developing other rods based upon theproperties of a cantilever beam. Considering the manual effort required tomake the calculations, we need to applaud his efforts. Simplistic, buthardly crude. Montagne, imposing the concepts of ballistics, bendform andother new terminology, not familiar to my engineering background has madethe design of a rod equivalent to launching a spacecraft to Mars.Regardless, both Garrison and Montagne and all the rest of the genre of roddesigners have neglected to include in any of their calculations, the energysource for moving the rod. The arm motion of a flyfisherman. And thecorrector best practice of delivering said energy. For myself, I am not a very goodcaster, but I am able to catch fish; using any rod I have had in mypossession at the time. I'm sure any of you can say the same. I think thatMr. Montagne has spent too much time trying to design the perfect rod thatmaybe only he will be able to use. I will settle for what most members ofthis list make or my own and find a stream to use it. I think I have alreadyspent too much time in responding to what I will call techspeak.Lee ----- Original Mes sage ----- Subject: Mike Montagne speaks out All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( agreat guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found onmy website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- -Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Mon Jan 14 18:52:25 2002 g0F0qOW15698 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:52:24 -0600 helo=default) id 16QHpq-00066f-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:52:19 -0500 Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod BUT, were you drunk the day your momma got out of prison? M-D i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Jan 14 19:51:22 2002 g0F1pJW17495 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:51:20 - , "rod" Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I'll have to re read the article but I thought there was a mention of needing to determine *perfection* before beginning so you know when you've reached it.The thing I found of interest was Mike was chasing a rod of a particular type but if it's all determined by numbers that are capable of taking into account varying forces and how these relate to the entire rod you could conceivably develop any type of rod including a para, if this is so don't get too hung up on what Mike considers perfect. You just have to know what you want before you start. I'll read it again anyhow. Tony At 04:54 PM 1/14/02 -0800, Don Schneider wrote: Lee,Well said, I'm sure Mike Montagne is a very interesting and nice personhowever after reading Reed's well written article I've concluded that thisis nothing more than theoretic mathematical gymnastics. The "perfecttaper",perfect for what? Define the variables, the largest of which has to be theone on the end of the handle.Don----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Koeser" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:51 PMSubject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I am an engineer and as such can understand Garrison's approach to roddesign, especially as it applies to developing other rods based upon theproperties of a cantilever beam. Considering the manual effort required tomake the calculations, we need to applaud his efforts. Simplistic, buthardly crude. Montagne, imposing the concepts of ballistics, bendform andother new terminology, not familiar to my engineering background has madethe design of a rod equivalent to launching a spacecraft to Mars.Regardless, both Garrison and Montagne and all the rest of the genre of roddesigners have neglected to include in any of their calculations, the energysource for moving the rod. The arm motion of a flyfisherman. And thecorrector best practice of delivering said energy. For myself, I am not a very goodcaster, but I am able to catch fish; using any rod I have had in mypossession at the time. I'm sure any of you can say the same. I think thatMr. Montagne has spent too much time trying to design the perfect rodthatmaybe only he will be able to use. I will settle for what most members ofthis list make or my own and find a stream to use it. I think I have alreadyspent too much time in responding to what I will call techspeak.Lee ----- Original Mes sage -----From: "Reed Curry" Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 5:36 PMSubject: Mike Montagne speaks out All,I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike Montagne ( agreat guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his rods in"Trout" (its in my Extracts).A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be found onmy website under "Articles". Very meaty, enjoy.- -Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from FlyfishT@aol.com Mon Jan 14 20:07:44 2002 g0F27iW18077 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:07:44 - for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:07:30 - Subject: nymph taper Just wanted to thank all who responded to my nymph taper inquiry. Thanks your help. Tom from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 14 21:10:29 2002 g0F3ASW19757 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:10:28 -0600 (authenticated) Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:11:53 -0800 timothy troester Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod And, were you driving a pickup? I'll hang around as long as you will let me,Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: BUT, were you drunk the day your momma got out of prison? M-D From: "timothy troester" i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 21:28:53 2002 g0F3SpW20367 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:28:51 - 14 Jan 2002 19:28:51 PST Subject: Penacolite glue source - Phillipson Taper I am seeking a Penacolite glue source. I want toduplicate a Phillispon tip for a butt and mid Ialready have. If any one has the taper for a Phillipson Pacemaker8.5 feet. I understand there are nymph and dry versiontips. I can guestimate what the taper is from the buttand mid but I'd love to have a source on it. I have afriend with books if it is in one of the resourcesseveral of you have mentioned in the past.TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Jan 14 21:34:38 2002 g0F3YbW20724 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:34:37 - 14 Jan 2002 19:34:37 PST Subject: Re: Penacolite glue source - Phillipson Taper resorcinol glue - from --- Rex Tutor wrote: I am seeking a Penacolite glue source. I want toduplicate a Phillispon tip for a butt and mid Ialready have. If any one has the taper for a Phillipson Pacemaker8.5 feet. I understand there are nymph and dryversiontips. I can guestimate what the taper is from thebuttand mid but I'd love to have a source on it. I haveafriend with books if it is in one of the resourcesseveral of you have mentioned in the past.TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from stoltz10@attbi.com Mon Jan 14 23:35:47 2002 g0F5ZkW23215 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:35:46 - Subject: to drip before or after wrapping I'm at the stage of my my first rod where I can either dip it now and =wrap later or wrap now and dip later, waht are the advantages of either =way? Tim I'm at the stage of my my first rod = either dip it now and wrap later or wrap now and dip later, waht are the = advantages of either way? Tim from ddeloach@pcisys.net Tue Jan 15 00:16:10 2002 g0F6G9W24359 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 00:16:09 -0600 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:16:04 -0700 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod Momma got runned over by damned ole train!!! And, were you driving a pickup? I'll hang around as long as you will let me,Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: BUT, were you drunk the day your momma got out of prison? M-D From: "timothy troester" i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Jan 15 01:58:56 2002 g0F7wtW26078 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:58:55 - Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:58:49 -0800 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:58:49 GMT Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping FILETIME=[77940BC0:01C19D9A] Personal opinion only - I would never wrap on a guide over varnish. I think that the overall varnish coat glues the whole thing together and I have serious misgivings about the guide foot sinking into the varnish beneath it. Probably for no good reason but...A.J. From: "Tim" Subject: to drip before or after wrappingDate: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:35:35 - 0800 I'm at the stage of my my first rod where I can either dip it now and wrap later or wrap now and dip later, waht are the advantages of either way? Tim _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Tue Jan 15 04:09:22 2002 g0FA9KW27402 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:09:21 - id g0FA9Cj00594; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:09:12 +0900 (JST) id TAA22755; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:09:09 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Online hexrod revision Frank, Sorry to reply this late. I appreciate your efforts. I am also analyzing some relationships among casting, inertia, moment,stress and deflection in acourse of casting a rod. Try to visit my site again. I updated some graphsyesterday.http://maxrod.tripod.com press English button on the top page and you getEnglish menu.Deflection analysis is at the top of menu. I am glad to co-work with you by what I've gotten until now. I hope the following random list may help you identifying new requirements (though some are already covered by the current version.) -to enable metric dimension data for input and output-to enable to analyze one and a half section rod-to enable to accept variable PF station interval such as 1"(for bevellerman), 5", 6", 2.5, 3 etc.-to enable to convert dimension data among different PF station interval-to enable to accept irregular interval input in case the measuring point isunder ferrule, guides.-to enable designing a taper around grip automatically including swelledbutt and normal-to enable to show the deflection of a rod in a static manner (to finalizethe dimension data)-to enable to show the deflection in animated manner (for humancomprehension)-to enable to show a set of moment, stress and deflection numbers-to enable to select characterestics of bamboo by means of respective MOEandweight per cubic inches including all the areashapes of the rod with hollowoption-to enable to analyze hex, round, quad, (penta) areashape with the option ofhollow made-to enable to analyze and auto correct the overwrapping between ferrule andsnake guide through theautomated guide spacing calculation-to enable to cope with separated (uncontinous) dimension input as tipdimension, mid dimension, butt dimension.(measuring point are not continuous among sections like shown in LovelyReed)-to enable multi-national language for display and output (Japanese, French,German, etc..)-to enable to calculate dimension data from deflaction input based on thechoiced bamboo characteristics and area shape. Deflectin input should be ingraphic manner.-to be able to archive the taper-to be able to record all the makings as produced rod archive (children ordeviations of a taper, for a personal use) wow, too much! Please prioritize those. Any way, it's a great news that you started the rewrite Hexrod!. Max I've started on a complete rewrite of the online hexrod program. I'm adding a hex penta quad conversion feature (thanks to ClaudeFreaner for his work on the math), and some other things people haveasked for. If you have any requests for new things or improvements ofold things this would be a good time to send them to me. Once its done I'm going to make a standalone (offline) version andhelp Max Satoh make a Japanese version. But it needs a completerewrite first. There is no ETA. from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Jan 15 04:38:52 2002 g0FAcpW27943 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:38:51 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4180. . Clean. Processed in 0.781342 secs); 15 Jan 200210:38:50 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping --------------000207040208060807090907 I like to rub on a coat of Tung oil spar as thin as possible prior to wrapping. I let dry and rub with #0000 steel wool. This gives a nice base to wrap on. The silk sticks ever so slightly allowing the wrapping to go easier. Marty Tim wrote: I'm at the stage of my my first rod where I can either dip it now and wrap later or wrap now and dip later, waht are the advantages of either way? Tim --------------000207040208060807090907 wrapping. I let dry and rub with #0000 steel wool. This gives a nice baseto wrap on. The silk sticks ever so slightly allowing the wrapping to goeasier. Marty Tim wrote: I'm at the stage of my my first rod whereI can either dip it now and wrap later or wrap now and dip later, waht arethe advantages of either way? Tim --------------000207040208060807090907-- from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 15 04:55:49 2002 g0FAtnW28358 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:55:49 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Reel seats Hi all,getting ready to stabilize some inserts using the Box Elder Igot from Eamon and Bob's plexiglass method. I wanted to darken some ofthe inserts up a bit, for on flamed rods, and I was wondering, what isthe best way to do this??Should I just pour some stain in with the plex goop? Or perhapslet the blank soak in stain before stabilizing? I wouldn't imagine thatthe blank would take stain after stabilizing and turning??I noticed Dave LeClair's mini Box Elder reel seats on GoldenWitches sight in 3 different colors, where those just natural colordeviations or done with stain?? Thanks again, Shawn from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 15 04:56:35 2002 g0FAuYW28513 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:56:34 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Conversion program Someone sent me an excellent hex/quad/penta taper conversion programonce, I think it may have been Len Histad's???? It was an Excel programif I remember right, super easy to use just type in the Hex taper andthe program converted it to quad and penta at the same time.Point being, I've lost the program and I was wondering if someonecould e mail it to me or point me in the right direction to get it?? Shawn from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 15 04:58:16 2002 g0FAwFW28716 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:58:16 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Test, must have been bumped again. Delete,bumped last night, back again.Shawn from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jan 15 05:14:34 2002 g0FBEXW29235 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:14:33 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:14:23 GMT Subject: Hayashida Careful Mr Hayashida. I'm close to posting three years and 105 mails backand forth which will end any doubts about your actions (and inactions) inthis matter. Anyone who takes the mail you posted as the whole of the God's own truthwill certainly still believe that the stork brings babies. Now what were yousaying about lost posting receipts, and what were the things claimed you years of procrastination, non-delivery, un-answered mails, and bullshitempty promises whilst sitting on things I'd sent to you in good faith - anda once firm friend who tried very hard for you, just got utterly pissed off. A few list-members who quite rightly see this as the wrong forum havepleaded your wonder. Damage to my rep doesn't matter _ I'm not sellinganything, and my friends of old have already been in touch to say they'rewith me in principal. from the many mails I've received concerning you itseems you are not at all the paragon you'd like this list to believe. WhilstI applaud your rodmaking efforts, and have done so publicly in the past, I'mnow more concerned about your dealing ethics. Those who want to deal with you will go ahead with at least someunderstanding that they MAY or MAY NOT be happy with the outcome. Surprise, surprise, I understand from you that a rod (one of mine, beingreturned) is now actually on it's way to me. And would that have happened ifthis list had not been treated to some ungentlemanly entertainment .....after all these years, I hazard a guess not. To all those who believe Mr Hayashida is the second coming of the Lord, Ioffer my condolences. Do take this opportunity to offer him your undyingsupport on list. To all, I say caveat emptor. John Cooper Normal0DocumentEmail Careful Mr Hayashida. I'm close to posting three years and 105 =mailsback and forth which will end any doubts about your actions (and =inactions) inthis matter.= Anyone who takes the mail you posted as the whole of the God's =own truthwill certainly still believe that the stork brings babies. Now what were =you sayingabout lost posting receipts, and what were the things claimed you sent =that youcouldn't quite remember...... and so on, and so on. Three years of =procrastination,non-delivery, un-answered mails, and bullshit empty promises whilst =sitting onthings I’d sent to you in good faith - and a once firm friend who =tried veryhard for you, just got utterly pissed off. A few list-members who quite rightly see this as the wrong forum =havepleaded your wonder. Damage to my rep doesn’t matter – =I’m not sellinganything, and my friends of old have already been in touch to say =they’re withme in principal. from the many mails I've received concerning you it =seems youare not at all the paragon you'd like this list to believe. Whilst I =applaudyour rodmaking efforts, and have done so publicly in the past, I'm now =moreconcerned about your dealing ethics. Those who want to deal with you will go ahead with at least some =understandingthat they MAY or MAY NOT be happy with the outcome. Surprise, surprise, I understand from you that a rod (one of =mine, beingreturned) is now actually on it's way to me. And would that have =happened if thislist had not been treated to some ungentlemanly entertainment ..... =after allthese years, I hazard a guess not. To all those who believe Mr Hayashida is the second coming of the =Lord,I offer my condolences. Do take this opportunity to offer him your =undyingsupport on list. To all, I say caveat emptor. John Cooper from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Tue Jan 15 05:53:00 2002 g0FBqxW29941 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:52:59 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:52:58 - Subject: JOC and Hayashida PLEASE STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Jan 15 05:57:25 2002 g0FBvOW00167 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:57:25 - (63.228.44.141) Subject: 4 string binder Have a 4 string binder for sale. contact off listDave Have a 4 string binder for sale. = listDave from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Jan 15 06:05:42 2002 g0FC5eW00514 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:05:41 - g0FC5Rk02185; Subject: Re: Hayashida Please don't post it on the list, that's all; I don't know about the others,but for me there is avery clear distinction to be drawn between off- threaddiscussions about home brew, about motor cycles, about winter, about theachievements of our children and off thread lines such as this one; theformer being enjoyable and giving insight into the "other" lives and intothe hopes and aspirations of those whom we come to regard regard as ourfriends through the medium of this List, the latter being mean, petty andvenal. You are quite obviously GOING to publish your nasty little manifesto, andpretty clearly always intended to do so; please, at the very least, put itunder a separate URL so that only the willing victims need suffer it. I don't regard Darryl Hayashida as the "second coming", and I quite stronglyprotest the quite gratuitous intrusion of your religious- based slurs. Peter McKean from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Tue Jan 15 07:04:26 2002 g0FD4PW01410 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:04:25 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:04:21 - Subject: Re: Hayashida Mr Cooper, Mark Wendt At 11:14 AM 1/15/2002 +0000, you wrote:Careful Mr Hayashida.I'm close to posting three years and 105 mails back and forth which willend any doubts about your actions (and inactions) in this matter. the God's own truth will certainly still believe that the stork bringsbabies. Now what were you saying about lost posting receipts, and whatwere the things claimed you sent that you couldn't quite remember......and so on, and so on. Three years of procrastination, non-delivery,un-answered mails, and bullshit empty promises whilst sitting on things Id sent to you in good faith - and a once firm friend who tried very hard wrong forum have pleaded your wonder. Damage to my rep doesn t matter Imnot selling anything, and my friends of old have already been in touch tosay they re with me in principal. from the many mails I've receivedconcerning you it seems you are not at all the paragon you'd like thislist to believe. Whilst I applaud your rodmaking efforts, and have doneso publicly in the past, I'm now more concerned about your dealingethics. least some understanding that they MAY or MAY NOT be happy with theoutcome. (one of mine, being returned) is now actually on it's way to me. Andwould that have happened if this list had not been treated to someungentlemanly entertainment ..... after all these years, I hazard a guessnot. coming of the Lord, I offer my condolences. Do take this opportunity tooffer him your undying support on list. To all, I say caveat emptor. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 15 07:10:06 2002 g0FDA4W01697 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:10:04 - Subject: Don Burns Can anybody help me with Don Burn's email address? I don't require the services of any professionals of any type thankyou. [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Tue Jan 15 07:35:24 2002 g0FDZNW02353 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:35:23 - Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:35:21 +0100 Subject: Re: Don Burns Tony 1. dont have the e-mail for Don2. You ought to know we are all bloody amateurs on this list:-)) regards, carsten splitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman Subject: Don Burns Can anybody help me with Don Burn's email address? I don't require the = services of any professionals of any type thankyou. [:-)] Tony =/************************************************************************=*/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown =/************************************************************************=*/ Tony 1. dont have the e-mail for =Don2. You ought to know we are all bloody = this list:-)) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com &daniaflyrods@mail.dk = flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman ----- Original Message ----- Young Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002= PMSubject: Don BurnsCan anybody help me with Don Burn's email = don't require the services of any professionals of any type = =:-)Tony/*********************************************= =stone.Unknown/***************************************=**********************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 15 07:39:48 2002 g0FDdkW02621 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:39:47 - Subject: Re: Don Burns g0FDdmW02624 I must confess that was about the answer I had expected [:-)] Tony At 02:38 PM 1/15/02 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Tony 1. dont have the e-mail for Don2. You ought to know we are all bloody amateurs on this list:-)) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com &daniaflyrods@mail.dksplitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:15 PMSubject: Don Burns Can anybody help me with Don Burn's email address? I don't require theservices of any professionals of any type thankyou. [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 15 07:49:56 2002 g0FDnsW03060 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:49:55 - Subject: Re: Don Burns g0FDnuW03061 Got Don's address thanks. TY At 02:38 PM 1/15/02 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Tony 1. dont have the e-mail for Don2. You ought to know we are all bloody amateurs on this list:-)) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com &daniaflyrods@mail.dksplitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:15 PMSubject: Don Burns Can anybody help me with Don Burn's email address? I don't require theservices of any professionals of any type thankyou. [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jan 15 07:51:58 2002 g0FDpvW03294 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:51:58 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 rod Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Jan, Thanks for coming forward and giving us some real insight intoMontagne rods. Apparently, they are valid fishing instruments, but shine on bigger waters. I'm surprised you can fish the Baby Catskill. Is this the 1 oz 6' model? What line weight does it take? Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jan Nystråm wrote: My casting experience of this rod: I have never cast a rod that powerfulwith such ease. It feels like casting a rod made for a line weight 2-3 lineclasses lighter. If casting under windy condition it also shines. It is mucheasier to throw your line where you aim because the rod is much lesssensitive to how the wind curves the line in the back cast. It seems this rod does everythingbetter than other rods - well it does not. I do some fishing in small creeksand this rod is difficult for me to use in these waters. Here I love my LeonardBaby Catskill, Payne 96 or Young Midge. If I need to cast only with my wrist(trees and bushes around you) I love the parabolic rods like E.C. Powell, PHYParabolic and Pezon & Michel. I am primarily a fly fisherman even though I was in the Swedish NationalCasting team years ago. My father 1932 started the rod and reel collection Iinhereted and now continue to build (now 36 Leonards and several Paynes ,Youngs, Dickersons, Gillums, FE Thomas, Thomas & Thomas, Edwards,Winstons, Nichols, Wheelers, H. Hawes, Orvis, Hardys, Pezon & Michel,Brunners etc. A total of 178 rods). For about 40 years I have fished most ofthe rods that are less than 60 years old so I do have some kind of reference. Best Regards,Jan from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 15 08:09:38 2002 g0FE9bW03986 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:09:37 - (authenticated) Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:11:05 -0800 Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping --------------ACD64F35160508AE02210738 Tim, Sanding flats between guides is difficult atbest. I dip my rod without guides, then sand allthe varnish off. Dip again, and sand perfectlyflat. Probably sand 50% of the varnish off thistime. Let sit a coupla weeks. Wrap the guides,dip again. If the third coat is really nice,that's all it gets. If not, then sand down anddip a fourth coat. Harry Tim wrote: I'm at the stage of my my first rod where I caneither dip it now and wrap later or wrap now anddip later, waht are the advantages of eitherway? Tim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------ACD64F35160508AE02210738 Tim, sand down and dip a fourth coat. Tim wrote: I'mat the stage of my my first rod where I can either dip it now and wraplater or wrap now and dip later, waht are the advantages of either -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------ACD64F35160508AE02210738-- from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Jan 15 08:20:07 2002 g0FEK6W04527 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:20:06 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:05:25 -0600 Subject: Agreed, enough John I don't know either one of you, and don't care who is wrong or right in thismatter. But all I can say is that I hope that rod was worth it, it reallymust have meant a lot to you. Oh, one more thing -- I hope I never meetyou. TAM-----Original Message----- Subject: Hayashida Careful Mr Hayashida. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jan 15 08:29:36 2002 g0FETZW04992 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:29:35 - Subject: Re: Online hexrod revision Max, Wow, too much! Some of your needs have already been anticipated; others are good isolate all the English text so that it can be converted to Japanese. But I am going to stick to Garrison's measure of "stress" as the analytical yardstick. I'm very interested in other ways of looking ata rod, of course, but I just don't have the time to add them to theprogram at this time. There is plenty of room for amateur computer programmers (like me),and professionals too, to make interesting contributions to cane roddesign and analysis. I'd encourage people to put their math intoa spreadsheet or a website and let the rest of us play with it. And I don't want to make a "rod design" program that deals with orrecords guide spacing, wrap colors, grip configuration, etc. I putbutt swells in that category. They fall outside of the realm of whatstress curves can help us with (I think). Joe Byrd is producing a "roddesign" program that is more complete in this regard. Max, I'll be in touch about some particular things you requested.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Max wrote: Frank, I hope the following random list may help you identifying new requirements .... wow, too much! Please prioritize those. Any way, it's a great news that you started the rewrite Hexrod!. Max from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 15 08:37:09 2002 g0FEb8W05510 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:37:08 - Subject: The band/ delete if not interested in Student Rick OK you guys know I am real proud of my kid and his band and sometimes I put something here on the list about them because I know some of you guys have bought the CD and listen to it in your shops. Here is the latest on them. On Dawson's Creek TV show the 23rd of this month they are using one of the band's songs on the show. This is too awesome.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ OK you guys know I amreal proud of my kid and his band and sometimes I put something here on thelist about them because I know some of you guys have bought the CD and Dawson's Creek TV show the 23rd of this month they are using one of the Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from harms1@pa.net Tue Jan 15 08:39:17 2002 g0FEdGW05821 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:39:16 - "Rodmakers Info" Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Tim, That is really the point. I haven't attended all that many rodmaker'sgatherings, but what I have noticed at those I have been able to make isthat most folks (novices and experts alike) seem to want to "test" a rod byfirst seeing how much line they can get out--or shoot. Double hauling isoften among the first things you see a caster do in trying a new rod. In away, it's sort of like watching a bunch of golfers taking turns, trying tosee if they can get a seven iron do what a four iron is designed to do. The practice of distance-casting a small rod has always struck me aspeculiar, and I wonder if these casters are really just trying to see ifthey still "have it," or if they are trying to discover something about therod itself. It is always relevant to learn a rod's maximum workingcapacity, but why is this so frequently the first and most interesting thingwe want to know? I suppose if the rod in question were big and powerful, then one wouldexpect that distance casting SHOULD be its forte.But for all those six-to-eight foot rods for three-to-five weight lines,long-distance casting is not usually the best test of the rod's quality. Here, in the East, most of our trout fishing requires casts of between 15 to40 feet, and most rods mentioned above are quite easily capable of that. Myposition is that no ordinary trout rod, pushed to its maximum capacity, isgoing to be doing the job for which it is best suited. So, the relevantissue is not how much farther than 40 feet a rod might be able to cast, butrather how well you like the rod's performance WITHIN that 15 to 40 footrange. On the other hand, if you will be casting regularly between 30 to 60 feet,then you simply want to use a larger rod (probably one whose maximumcapacity may be up to 80 feet). cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: "The Perfect Rod" Hi, What is the average cast compared to approach distant of the fish. Wouldn't that be the determining facture for the perfect rod? 30' to 40 feet. Just a thought. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker from saweiss@flash.net Tue Jan 15 08:44:35 2002 g0FEiZW06299 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:44:35 -0600 g0FEiTl302286 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:44:29 -0500 Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod Organization: Prodigy Internet I don't know what this tripe is all about and I hope I don't have to see anymore of it. If you want to kid around with some kind of obtuse humor, pleasedo it privately.Steve Momma got runned over by damned ole train!!! And, were you driving a pickup? I'll hang around as long as you will let me,Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: BUT, were you drunk the day your momma got out of prison? M-D From: "timothy troester" i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tedknott@cogeco.ca Tue Jan 15 08:45:24 2002 g0FEjOW06508 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:45:24 - Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping I follow the same steps, except that I apply 3 full, wet, coats of =varnish to the wraps before I do the final dip. I follow the same steps, except that I = dip. from harms1@pa.net Tue Jan 15 08:46:01 2002 g0FEk0W06678 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:46:00 - Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod Tim, There ya go! I knew you could do it! The perfect rod will handle atwo-wieght line for little West Virginia brookies as well a ten-weight line (Best to your mom--I think I used to date her.) cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: the perfect flyrod i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from Ondafly1@cs.com Tue Jan 15 08:46:07 2002 g0FEk6W06711 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:46:06 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:45:53 - Subject: The Best Oven I'm just gathering up all my equipment to start building rods and am wondering what is the best type of oven to use? I've heard good things both on the mica strip type and heat gun ovens. Any more options or possible modifications on the two mentioned?Thank you, Bruce I'm just gathering up allmy equipment to start building rods and am wondering what is the best typeof oven to use? I've heard good things both on the mica strip type and heatgun ovens. Any more options or possible modifications on the twomentioned? Bruce from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jan 15 08:49:56 2002 g0FEnuW07191 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:49:56 - IAA08203 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:49:55 Subject: grip formation with dremel In Howell's "Lovely Reed" there is a photo of a builder forminga grip. The rod with the cork rings glued in place is turningin a lathe, and there is a die grinder following a pattern whichis shaping the grip. I thought it was a neat idea. Last night I cobbled up, in my usual Rube Goldberg fashion, asimilar system using my power-drill powered grip-turning "lathe"and a dremel. I glued a couple wood blocks to the "lathe bed"and made a pattern of the grip shape on a third piece of woodwith the bandsaw. This gets clamped in position across the firsttwo pieces. The dremel has a little ball cutter and a piece ofdowel attached to follow the pattern. I just got everything spinning and slowly moved the dremel alongthe pattern, and in about 1 minute I had 90% of the excess corkremoved and ready for sanding. I'm going to look for a largerdiameter cutting burr, which should give a smoother cut. Besides the speed, what is nice is that there is a lot less stresson the rod than when you use sandpaper (for those who shape thegrip right on the rod, not a separate mandrel.) And the "dust"was a lot courser and didn't fill the air and cover me and everthingelse. I think its an idea worth refining.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jan 15 08:58:07 2002 g0FEw6W07931 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:58:06 -0600 helo=default) id 16QV2H-0004ST-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:58:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Don Burns Good. I had it but selfish as I am, wasn't going to give it to you. >>8^? M-D Got Don's address thanks. TY At 02:38 PM 1/15/02 +0100, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Tony 1. dont have the e-mail for Don2. You ought to know we are all bloody amateurs on this list:-)) regards, carsten www.daniaflyrods.com &daniaflyrods@mail.dksplitcane flyrods for the discerning flyfisherman----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:15 PMSubject: Don Burns Can anybody help me with Don Burn's email address? I don't require theservices of any professionals of any type thankyou. [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web siteat: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/fly rod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Tue Jan 15 09:00:33 2002 g0FF0XW08334 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:00:33 - Organization: Washington University in St. Louis Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping Harry seez... Sanding flats between guides is difficult atbest. I dip my rod without guides, then sand allthe varnish off. Dip again, and sand perfectlyflat. Probably sand 50% of the varnish off thistime. Let sit a coupla weeks. Wrap the guides,dip again. If the third coat is really nice,that's all it gets. If not, then sand down anddip a fourth coat. I made a rod for the auction at TroutBum BBQ in Grayling this past summer. Due to my procrastination, and the fact that the rod was going to be a joint project between myself, and local flyshop owner, rod wrapper extraordinaire, Tom Hargrove, I was really rushed on the dipping. So I tried two dips of Harry's method of dipping and sanding down to almost bare cane between. Ithen delivered the rod to Tom for wrapping. After wrapping all that was required was one final dip, and the rod was ready to go. It worked great, and as Harry said, the sanding between coats, without the guides was a breeze. Definitely will be my finishing method of choice fromnow on. Mike BiondoSt. Louis, MO from tedknott@cogeco.ca Tue Jan 15 09:02:29 2002 g0FF2SW08549 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:02:28 - Subject: Re: grip formation with dremel I wonder how this might work with an abrasive wheel instead of the steelball tool? Think I might try it on my lathe. I shape every grip by "eye"to what pleases me, but this would allow you to be consistent rod to rod. from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 09:02:55 2002 g0FF2rW08650 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:02:54 - Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:02:53 PST Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Jan and Reed are fast onto it here, in my opinion. The waters you fish largely determine the preferred rod. For opencountry fishing out here (read: in the wind), the medium-fast tapersjust hold up better. That is why I prefer faster tapers than many inthe heavier (5/6 weight) rods I use. Once out of the wind on a protected small stream, I like themedium/slower rods and parabolic is that much better since they areusually good roll casters. This combination makes for interesting rodmaking, since the standardconversions result in slower actions in longer lengths for the samestress curves. I guess that's why there are a lot of faster shortrods out there and slower long rods. Jerry --- Reed Curry wrote: Jan,Thanks for coming forward and giving us some real insight intoMontagne rods. Apparently, they are valid fishing instruments, but shine on bigger waters.I'm surprised you can fish the Baby Catskill. Is this the 1 oz 6'model? What line weight does it take? Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jan Nystråm wrote: My casting experience of this rod: I have never cast a rod that powerful with such ease. It feels like casting a rod made for aline weight 2-3 line classes lighter. If casting under windycondition it also shines. It is much easier to throw your linewhere you aim because the rod is much less sensitive to how th e wind curves the line in the back cast. It seems this rod does everything better than other rods - well it does not. I do somefishing in small creeks and this rod is difficult for me to use inthese waters. Here I love my Leonard Baby Catskill, Payne 96 orYoung Midge. If I need to cast only with my wrist (trees and bushesaround you) I love the parabolic rods like E.C. Powell, PHYParabolic and Pezon & Michel. I am primarily a fly fisherman even though I was in the Swedish National Casting team years ago. My father 1932 started the rod andreel collection I inhereted and now continue to build (now 36Leonards and several Paynes , Youngs, Dickersons, Gillums, FEThomas, Thomas & Thomas, Edwards, Winstons, Nichols, Wheelers, H.Hawes, Orvis, Hardys, Pezon & Michel, Brunners etc. A total of 178rods). For about 40 years I have fished most of the rods that areless than 60 years old so I do have some kind of reference. Best Regards,Jan __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 09:04:32 2002 g0FF4VW08976 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:04:31 - helo=g2t8c9) id 16QV8X-0004SY-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:04:29 -0800 Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping Tim, This is what I like to do. I will dip the blank 2 times then wrap. = Dipping before wrapping allows you to work on the finish and get it =ultra smooth without the guides in the way. Then dipping 1-2 more times =over the wraps give the blank a very continuous finish. And no the =finish does not stick to the guides. Adam Vigil Subject: to drip before or after wrapping I'm at the stage of my my first rod where I can either dip it now and =wrap later or wrap now and dip later, waht are the advantages of either =way? Tim Tim, This is what I like to do. I will dip = times then wrap. Finish the wraps and then dip 1-2 times more. = Dipping before wrapping allows you to = finish and get it ultra smooth without the guides in the way. Then = more times over the wraps give the blank a very continuous finish. And = finish does not stick to the guides. Adam Vigil ----- Original Message ----- Tim Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 = PMSubject: to drip before or = wrapping I'm at the stage of my my first rod = either dip it now and wrap later or wrap now and dip later, waht are = advantages of either way? Tim from jojo@ipa.net Tue Jan 15 09:07:19 2002 g0FF7JW09279 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:07:19 -0600 helo=default) id 16QVBF-00012R-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:07:18 -0500 Subject: Re: The band/ delete if not interested in Student Rick Bret, I, for one, don't mind that you post your fatherly gloats on the List. =It's a father's prerogative to gloat, and if you think enough of us on =this list to want to share it with us, then I'm honored to be included. =Glad the boy is doing so well. M-D OK you guys know I am real proud of my kid and his band and sometimes =I put something here on the list about them because I know some of you =guys have bought the CD and listen to it in your shops. Here is the =latest on them. On Dawson's Creek TV show the 23rd of this month they =are using one of the band's songs on the show. This is too awesome.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Bret, I, for one, don't mind = your fatherly gloats on the List. It's a father's prerogative to gloat, = you think enough of us on this list to want to share it with us, then = honored to be included. Glad the boy is doing so =well. M-D Grhghlndr@aol.com OK you guys know I am real proud= and his band and sometimes I put something here on the list about them = 23rd of this month they are using one of the band's songs on the = This is too awesome.Brethttp://bretsovens.bravepages.c=om/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 15 09:15:09 2002 g0FFF8W10034 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:15:08 - Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" To all,All this talk about "perfect rods" is a waste of time (and bandwidth). I built 6 3 piece 8' rods and the hollow built one would false cast 120' without double hauling and still cast accurately at 20'.The other rods were good but not as spectacular as this one. They all were on a straight taper and for a 7 or 8 wf line. I haven't tried to repeat this rod yet but will in the near future.Cheers,Hank. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jan 15 09:22:57 2002 g0FFMuW10743 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:22:56 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Bill,I agree with you, not that it's the "right" way to see what goodattributes a rod has, but everyone seems to want to find out immediatelyhowmuch line a rod can cast rather than how accurately a rod can deliver a fly.I'm ashamed to admit that I'm among those that hit for distance with a newrod. Even my own... I practice (lawn casting) every chance I get, andusually it's with my 5'6" 4 wt. rod, and after 30 minutes or so, I tend toget bored and start trying to hit the neighbors mailbox with a cast (75 feetdown the road from my driveway). I do NOT fish at that distance. Much ofmy fishing is easily inside of 40 to 50 feet, most of it much less thanthat. (Harry Boyd, Ken Cole, Beaver Creek... they understand...)Now, I'm going to contradict myself a bit. I think it's just asimportant to have a powerful rod as it is to have an accurate rod. Do Ifish at 70 feet? No... I can't set a hook consistently outside of 50 and Idamn sure can't see that far these days. But, what if I have a rising fish40 feet upstream and I have a 15 mph wind in my face? I have to have a rod,even though it may be short, that is capable of casting 70 feet in stillair, or I won't have the power to accurately "punch" that line 40 feet intothe wind.Now comes the difficult part... when the wind isn't blowing and you havea fish 10 feet out. That same rod needs to cast with little, and in somecases NO line out of the tip top and still be able to accurately deliver afly.So, I agree that power in a short rod may not always be the first thingyou should look for, but in the kinds of streams and rivers I enjoy fishingthe most (Beaver Cr. in OK, Mill Cr. in MT., South Platte in CO, Frying Pan(the coldest damn water in the world), Silver Cr. in ID), both close infinesse and raw long distance power are important. The only thing I can sayin defense of my own habit of testing the power in a rod is that the firstthing I do is see if it will play the game in close, because if it can'tturn over a fly with no more than a couple of feet of line out of the tiptop, then, to me, it really doesn't matter whether that rod will cast agreat distance with power.As for the golf analogy, Hey, I just wish my 4 iron would go as far asmost peoples 7 iron... However, my swing with a 4 iron does compare wellwith my fly line in that I can effectively put both in the trees no matterhow far away they are! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Tim, That is really the point. I haven't attended all that many rodmaker'sgatherings, but what I have noticed at those I have been able to make isthat most folks (novices and experts alike) seem to want to "test" a rod by first seeing how much line they can get out--or shoot. Double hauling isoften among the first things you see a caster do in trying a new rod. In a way, it's sort of like watching a bunch of golfers taking turns, trying tosee if they can get a seven iron do what a four iron is designed to do. The practice of distance-casting a small rod has always struck me aspeculiar, and I wonder if these casters are really just trying to see ifthey still "have it," or if they are trying to discover something about the rod itself. It is always relevant to learn a rod's maximum workingcapacity, but why is this so frequently the first and most interesting thing we want to know? I suppose if the rod in question were big and powerful, then one wouldexpect that distance casting SHOULD be its forte.But for all those six-to-eight foot rods for three-to-five weight lines,long-distance casting is not usually the best test of the rod's quality. Here, in the East, most of our trout fishing requires casts of between 15 to 40 feet, and most rods mentioned above are quite easily capable of that. My position is that no ordinary trout rod, pushed to its maximum capacity, isgoing to be doing the job for which it is best suited. So, the relevantissue is not how much farther than 40 feet a rod might be able to cast, but rather how well you like the rod's performance WITHIN that 15 to 40 footrange. On the other hand, if you will be casting regularly between 30 to 60 feet,then you simply want to use a larger rod (probably one whose maximumcapacity may be up to 80 feet). cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Tim Doughty" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:58 PMSubject: "The Perfect Rod" Hi, What is the average cast compared to approach distant of the fish. Wouldn't that be the determining facture for the perfect rod? 30' to 40 feet. Just a thought. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 09:23:59 2002 g0FFNwW10903 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:23:58 - helo=g2t8c9) id 16QVRG-0002U9-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:23:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Hayashida Hey, I would like to introduce myself I am Adam. So I think from now on the =proper saying would be " I don't know you from Osama" or maybe "I don't =know you from Abdula Hamil Shamaka Jones" Adam Vigil P.S. Delete button is more useful then cyber dissatisfaction ---- Subject: Re: Hayashida Mr Cooper, I don't know you from Adam. I also don't know Darryl from Adam. If =you want to get into a personal pissing contest, that's fine, just take =it off line. I for one, don't care to hear about the he said, he/she =said stuff in this forum. If you have business issues, that's what the =legal system is for. If you have personal issues, that's your and = Mark Wendt At 11:14 AM 1/15/2002 +0000, you wrote: Careful Mr Hayashida. I'm close to posting three years and 105 mails =back and forth which will end any doubts about your actions (and =inactions) in this matter. Anyone who takes the mail you posted as the whole of the God's own =truth will certainly still believe that the stork brings babies. Now =what were you saying about lost posting receipts, and what were the =things claimed you sent that you couldn't quite remember...... and so =on, and so on. Three years of procrastination, non-delivery, un-answered =mails, and bullshit empty promises whilst sitting on things I d sent to =you in good faith - and a once firm friend who tried very hard for you, =just got utterly pissed off. A few list-members who quite rightly see this as the wrong forum =have pleaded your wonder. Damage to my rep doesn t matter I m not =selling anything, and my friends of old have already been in touch to =say they re with me in principal. from the many mails I've received =concerning you it seems you are not at all the paragon you'd like this =list to believe. Whilst I applaud your rodmaking efforts, and have done =so publicly in the past, I'm now more concerned about your dealing =ethics. Those who want to deal with you will go ahead with at least some =understanding that they MAY or MAY NOT be happy with the outcome. Surprise, surprise, I understand from you that a rod (one of mine, =being returned) is now actually on it's way to me. And would that have =happened if this list had not been treated to some ungentlemanly =entertainment ..... after all these years, I hazard a guess not. To all those who believe Mr Hayashida is the second coming of the =Lord, I offer my condolences. Do take this opportunity to offer him your =undying support on list. To all, I say caveat emptor. John Cooper Hey, I would like to introduce myself I am = think from now on the proper saying would be " I don't know you from = maybe "I don't know you from Abdula Hamil Shamaka Jones" Adam Vigil P.S. Delete button is more useful then = dissatisfaction ----- Original Message ----- Mark Wendt Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002= AMSubject: Re: Hayashida = +0000, = wrote:Careful Mr= I'm close to posting three years and 105 mails back and forth which = mail = posted as the whole of the God's own truth will certainly still = the stork brings babies. Now what were you saying about lost posting = receipts, and what were the things claimed you sent that you = remember...... and so on, and so on. Three years of procrastination, = non-delivery, un-answered mails, and bullshit empty promises whilst = on things I d sent to you in good faith - and a once firm friend who = very hard for you, just got utterly pissed forum have pleaded your wonder. Damage to my rep doesn t matter I m = selling anything, and my friends of old have already been in touch = they re with me in principal. from the many mails I've received = you it seems you are not at all the paragon you'd like this list to = Whilst I applaud your rodmaking efforts, and have done so publicly = past, I'm now more concerned about your dealing = = from you that a rod (one of mine, being returned) is now actually on = way to me. And would that have happened if this list had not been = some ungentlemanly entertainment ..... after all these years, I = Hayashida is the second coming of the Lord, I offer my condolences. = this opportunity to offer him your undying support on list. To all, = Cooper from caneman@clnk.com Tue Jan 15 09:31:44 2002 g0FFViW11646 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:31:44 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod Steven and others who don't understand the references to Momma, Prison,Trains, etc. in this thread,Just so you'll know what they're talking about, there was an old song bya Country entertainer named David Allen Coe. The quotes they're throwingabout are the lyrics to that song that describes the ultimate Redneck...They're doing it all in fun, and those that are doing it are from the South,where the lyrics are well known and laughed at... The lyrics are jokinglysaid to have made it the "PERFECT" country and western song, therefore,someof the southern boys picked up on the "perfect" flyrod thing and startedrazzing in fun. In the song, there is a spoken verse where Coe explainsthat his friend Steve Goodman wrote the song and that he told Steve itwasn't the perfect country song because it didn't say anything about gettingdrunk, prison, rain, or trains or pickups. Goodman wrote the following,final verse of the song, so that it would be the "perfect" country andwestern song. The final verse of the song goes... I was drunk the day my Momma got out of prisonI went to pick her up in the rainBut before I could get to the station in my pickup truckShe got runned over by a damned old train... All in fun, and sorry for the wasted bandwidth,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod I don't know what this tripe is all about and I hope I don't have to see any more of it. If you want to kid around with some kind of obtuse humor, please do it privately.Steve Momma got runned over by damned ole train!!! And, were you driving a pickup? I'll hang around as long as you will let me,Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: BUT, were you drunk the day your momma got out of prison? M-D From: "timothy troester" i just want everyone to know i have the perfectflyrod. it is part blonde and part flamed. used bothn/s and anodized alum for hardware. it has bothmildrum and agate stripper guides. is extendable viaan insert from 7' to 8'6" and can cast any number oflines, 3wt to 8wt, due to my newly developedbracing-splints i temporarily fasten to the rod usingo-rings. i gave this rod to my mom just after she got out ofprison. on the trip up she almost got run over by adamned old train! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 15 09:32:54 2002 g0FFWrW11860 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:32:53 - (authenticated) Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:34:27 -0800 Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping --------------CA00B54AFC2B7A9A241B09A7 Ted, Guess I should've mentioned that I also finish the wrapscompletely before dipping the final coat. Though I don'tuse three full wet coats, the five ultra- thin coats ofvarious potions and extracts that I do use does the job offilling the threads quite nicely.Thanks for picking up on my oversight. Harry Ted wrote: I follow the same steps, except that I apply 3 full, wet,coats of varnish to the wraps before I do the final dip. -- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------CA00B54AFC2B7A9A241B09A7 Ted, three full wet coats, the five ultra-thin coats of various potions andextracts that I do use does the job of filling the threads quite nicely. Ted wrote: same steps, except that I apply 3 full, wet, coats of varnish to the wrapsbefore I do the final dip.--Harry Boyd --------------CA00B54AFC2B7A9A241B09A7-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 15 09:39:33 2002 g0FFdWW12495 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:39:32 - (authenticated) Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:41:06 -0800 Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod Steve, My apologies for wasting the list's time. We were all citing lines from anold David Allan Coe country and western song, "You Don't Have to Call meDarling, Darling." It's a favorite among old rednecks who remember the dayswhen they had plenty of hair and flat stomachs, before the beer drinking andpartying took its toll. Since I fit into that category, I still remember everyword, verbatim. Truth is, it's really funny if you are in on the joke. Again, I apologize for wasting your time. Harry "Steven A. Weiss" wrote: I don't know what this tripe is all about and I hope I don't have to see anymore of it. If you want to kid around with some kind of obtuse humor,pleasedo it privately.Steve --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from alan.grombacher@pioneer.com Tue Jan 15 09:39:54 2002 g0FFdrW12605 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:39:53 -0600 rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:39:19 -0500 id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:39:17 -0600 Subject: Jan - holy cow! was RE: "The Perfect Rod" g0FFdsW12613 Jan, You the Man! I am going to show this email to my wife. She should never complain aboutthe 21 or so rods in my basement ever again. Thanks for the ammo! Cheers and Happy New Year, Alberta Al P.S. Sounds like a great collection of bamboo. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Jan, Thanks for coming forward and giving us some real insight intoMontagne rods. Apparently, they are valid fishing instruments, but shine on bigger waters. I'm surprised you can fish the Baby Catskill. Is this the 1 oz 6'model? What line weight does it take? Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jan Nystråm wrote: My casting experience of this rod: I have never cast a rod that powerful with such ease. It feels like casting a rod made for a line weight 2-3 lineclasses lighter. If casting under windy condition it also shines. It is mucheasier to throw your line where you aim because the rod is much lesssensitive to how th e wind curves the line in the back cast. It seems this rod does everything better than other rods - well it does not. I do some fishing in small creeksand this rod is difficult for me to use in these waters. Here I love myLeonard Baby Catskill, Payne 96 or Young Midge. If I need to cast only withmy wrist (trees and bushes around you) I love the parabolic rods like E.C.Powell, PHY Parabolic and Pezon & Michel. I am primarily a fly fisherman even though I was in the Swedish National Casting team years ago. My father 1932 started the rod and reel collection Iinhereted and now continue to build (now 36 Leonards and several Paynes ,Youngs, Dickersons, Gillums, FE Thomas, Thomas & Thomas, Edwards,Winstons,Nichols, Wheelers, H. Hawes, Orvis, Hardys, Pezon & Michel, Brunners etc. Atotal of 178 rods). For about 40 years I have fished most of the rods thatare less than 60 years old so I do have some kind of reference. Best Regards,Jan from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Tue Jan 15 09:44:58 2002 g0FFiwW13241 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:44:58 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:44:56 - Subject: Re: Hayashida Hey, ishould have said Harry, oops, we have one or two of those guys, how about MarkAt 07:23 AM 1/15/2002 -0800, you wrote:Hey, I would like to introduce myself Iam Adam. So I think from now on the proper saying would be " I don'tknow you from Osama" or maybe "I don't know you from AbdulaHamil Shamaka Jones" Adam Vigil P.S. Delete button is more useful then cyberdissatisfaction from rmoon@ida.net Tue Jan 15 09:54:28 2002 g0FFsSW14045 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:54:28 - Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Bill. You are so right! The golf analogy brings to mind another. Did you evernotice that the guy who really over swings and tries to lambaste the hell outofthe ball usually has the shortest distance, while the guy with the fluidcontrolled swing does lambaste the hell out of the ball. I am not bragging,butI have to relate a little incident that happened to me. A novice rod builderbrought me one of his rods to see what I thought of it. It was a nice littlerod. I made a few false casts to get the feel of it, and then I stopped andtold him it looked like a good rod and pointed out a cigarette butt about 15-20feet away. One cast and I nailed the butt. I turned to the guy and said"greatrod." Needless to say I never tried again. It was a cast in a million.Still itwas a good way to test the rod. RalphWILLIAM HARMS wrote: Tim, That is really the point. I haven't attended all that many rodmaker'sgatherings, but what I have noticed at those I have been able to make isthat most folks (novices and experts alike) seem to want to "test" a rodbyfirst seeing how much line they can get out--or shoot. Double hauling isoften among the first things you see a caster do in trying a new rod. In away, it's sort of like watching a bunch of golfers taking turns, trying tosee if they can get a seven iron do what a four iron is designed to do. The practice of distance-casting a small rod has always struck me aspeculiar, and I wonder if these casters are really just trying to see ifthey still "have it," or if they are trying to discover something about therod itself. It is always relevant to learn a rod's maximum workingcapacity, but why is this so frequently the first and most interesting thingwe want to know? I suppose if the rod in question were big and powerful, then one wouldexpect that distance casting SHOULD be its forte.But for all those six-to-eight foot rods for three-to-five weight lines,long-distance casting is not usually the best test of the rod's quality. Here, in the East, most of our trout fishing requires casts of between 15to40 feet, and most rods mentioned above are quite easily capable of that. Myposition is that no ordinary trout rod, pushed to its maximum capacity, isgoing to be doing the job for which it is best suited. So, the relevantissue is not how much farther than 40 feet a rod might be able to cast,butrather how well you like the rod's performance WITHIN that 15 to 40 footrange. On the other hand, if you will be casting regularly between 30 to 60 feet,then you simply want to use a larger rod (probably one whose maximumcapacity may be up to 80 feet). cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Tim Doughty" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:58 PMSubject: "The Perfect Rod" Hi, What is the average cast compared to approach distant of the fish. Wouldn't that be the determining facture for the perfect rod? 30' to 40 feet.Just a thought. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker --?IôO from owen@davies.mv.com Tue Jan 15 10:02:24 2002 g0FG2OW14728 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:02:24 - Subject: Re: Hayashida JOC wrote: Careful Mr Hayashida. I'm close to posting three years and 105 mails ... As a lurker, rather than an active builder and contributor, I hate to postthis kind of message, but this is getting awfully darned close to grounds into our bozo filters. Eventually, there will be no one for him to annoy. JOC, I for one won't be seeing any more of your messages. Owen Davies from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Jan 15 10:03:32 2002 g0FG3VW14901 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:03:31 -0600 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:03:22 -0800 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:03:22 GMT Subject: The perfect flyrod FILETIME=[2823CD20:01C19DDE] I have indeed created theperfect flyrod, it's called EXCALIBURGet your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Jan 15 10:04:10 2002 g0FG49W15135 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:04:09 - Subject: Marlborough MA show Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools Could someone send me details, where / When. TIA Pete from harms1@pa.net Tue Jan 15 10:11:34 2002 g0FGBXW15975 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:11:33 - Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Lee, I am not an engineer, and my last course in mathematics was intermediatealgebra in high school (in which I got a "D"). But I think I know this: One CAN use mathematical formulae, computer technology, and variousprinciples of physics to design a rod for a particular line and castingdistance. These factors can be calculated and controlled, and the desiredrod's optimum dimensions can be determined. We (although not I) can do thisbecause the factors involved in the computations can all be taken as aseries of "givens," and because we (not me) know how to consider thedynamiceffects that a line will produce upon the rod we are "after." But have we noticed in all this mathematical modeling, that only the rodbeing designed and the accompanying, dynamic leverages placed upon it (byferrule, guides, line-of-a-certain-length, leader and fly) are beingconsidered? It's as if a fly rod were only a cantilevered beam, respondingto leverages of various sorts from one fixed end, outward. But the otherend (in your hand) is known NOT to be fixed. Still, mathematically modeledrods are designed as if it were. The reason for this is simple: WE DON'TKNOW HOW TO CONSIDER THE LEVERAGE IMPARTED BY A CASTER! And so, wedon't. But a fly rod is neither a beam nor a lever: it is both. And it is bothwith a difference. That is, the leverage imparted to a fly rod is deliveredat BOTH ends, and (to muddy the waters still more) this occurs both inunequal proportions and in non-synchronous sequences. A rod's physicalcharacteristics can be known, as can the lever effects acting upon it by theline at any given distance. What cannot be known is how a given caster will(nearly) simultaneously impart leverage of a different sort to the OTHER endof this rod. Nor can a casting machine be built to replicate what humans do. Obviously,this is simply because we all cast differently, and these differences,across a range of fishermen, are by no means subtle. There are dozens ofmuscles and nearly as many joints involved in a simple cast, and all theseare articulated in each of us with an idiocyncratic sense of timing, rhythmand relative speed. The resulting leverage that begins any given castdelivers energy into the rod, and it responds--but not in a way that anystress curve could predict or control for. Stress curves can only control So, in the end, it's always back to the tinkering and tweaking as we searchto build the rod that suits us best. All the math, physics and computerwizardry in the world can only get us started, because we still don't knowhow to model what we do when we hold that rod in our hand and set it intomotion. Garrison got us started, but none of the mathematical modelingthatfollowed has produced "better" rods--only different ones. So too, MichaelMontagne. Shit, even a "D" in high school algebra and a few years of hangin' outtaught me THAT much! Sometimes I think we get too smart for our britches. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I am an engineer and as such can understand Garrison's approach to roddesign, especially as it applies to developing other rods based upon theproperties of a cantilever beam. Considering the manual effort required tomake the calculations, we need to applaud his efforts. Simplistic, buthardly crude. Montagne, imposing the concepts of ballistics, bendform andother new terminology, not familiar to my engineering background hasmadethe design of a rod equivalent to launching a spacecraft to Mars. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 15 10:14:32 2002 g0FGEVW16372 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:14:31 - (authenticated) Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:16:05 -0800 Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Bob and Bill, Just for fun here, only trying to further discussion and explain the psycheof the "average" gathering attendee. I'm only a fair to middlin' caster, butwith a six weight flyline, I can hit 25 feet, with no rod at all. Using onlyone's hands, it's just a matter of timing. Agreed, some rods are morecomfortable than others, but any rod which won't cast well at 25-30 feet isliterally worse than no rod at all. The reason many of us try to see if we can reach the backing is more thananego thing... It's just plain fun. Saturday night a fellow came to my booth inNashville with the first bamboo rod he's built. He couldn't get it to cast aswell as he thought it should. It was a PHY Perfectionist taper, and somehowhehad gotten the idea it was a 3 weight. I couldn't convince him it was a 5weight until I put a line on it, and we went to the parking lot. I never toldhim I'd cut 25 feet off the back of that 5 weight line, making it only 80 feetlong. When we cast the entire line, and 10 feet of backing, he thought hewasthe greatest rodmaker alive. I felt great. He felt great. It was fun. Maybe that's why we try to throwthat line a country mile. Isn't that why we do all of this? For fun? Harry pole." Bob Nunley wrote: Bill,I agree with you, not that it's the "right" way to see what goodattributes a rod has, but everyone seems to want to find out immediatelyhowmuch line a rod can cast rather than how accurately a rod can deliver a fly. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from harms1@pa.net Tue Jan 15 10:30:51 2002 g0FGUoW17580 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:30:50 - "Rodmakers@wugate. Wustl. Edu" Subject: Re: Hayashida ALRIGHT, FELLAS!!! THAT'S ENOUGH, NOW KNOCK IT OFF!!! This list is not meant for these kinds of quarrels, and we are notinterested in hearing any more of it. Air your grievances in some otherforum. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Hayashida Careful Mr Hayashida. I'm close to posting three years and 105 mails backand forth which will end any doubts about your actions (and inactions) inthis matter. Anyone who takes the mail you posted as the whole of the God's own truthwill certainly still believe that the stork brings babies. Now what were you saying about lost posting receipts, and what were the things claimed yousent that you couldn't quite remember...... and so on, and so on. Threeyears of procrastination, non-delivery, un-answered mails, and bullshitempty promises whilst sitting on things I'd sent to you in good faith - and a once firm friend who tried very hard for you, just got utterly pissed off. A few list-members who quite rightly see this as the wrong forum havepleaded your wonder. Damage to my rep doesn't matter - I'm not sellinganything, and my friends of old have already been in touch to say they'rewith me in principal. from the many mails I've received concerning you itseems you are not at all the paragon you'd like this list to believe. Whilst I applaud your rodmaking efforts, and have done so publicly in the past, I'm now more concerned about your dealing ethics. Those who want to deal with you will go ahead with at least someunderstanding that they MAY or MAY NOT be happy with the outcome. Surprise, surprise, I understand from you that a rod (one of mine, beingreturned) is now actually on it's way to me. And would that have happened if this list had not been treated to some ungentlemanly entertainment .....after all these years, I hazard a guess not. To all those who believe Mr Hayashida is the second coming of the Lord, Ioffer my condolences. Do take this opportunity to offer him your undyingsupport on list. To all, I say caveat emptor. John Cooper from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 15 10:35:23 2002 g0FGZMW18019 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:35:22 - g0FGZBa11631; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:35:11 -0600 Subject: Re: to drip before or after wrapping Tim, I would not wrap on a totally unsealed blank.If you have time for the varnish to set I would varnish before wrapping. Thevarnish would have to be totally dry before wrapping or you will learnnew cuss words.I apply four coats of Tung oil varnish, sanding between coats with 0000 steelwool. The tung dries a lot faster than plain varnish. The blank has aslippery feeling at this point.My wraps are totally filled before the finial dipping. I dip in thinned varnishtwice.Am real pleased with the results.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tim wrote: I'm at the stage of my my first rod where I can either dip it now and wraplater or wrap now and dip later, waht are the advantages of either way? Tim from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 15 10:44:18 2002 g0FGiHW18796 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:44:17 - g0FGiGa13325 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:44:16 -0600 Subject: 8' 2 wt ???????????? I have been asked about making a 8' 2 wt softthree piece rod.Any help with tapers would be appreciated.Is there a taper out there.I am too stupid to learn to use Hexrod.Thanks,Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Jan 15 10:53:58 2002 g0FGruW19642 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:53:56 - Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" It's nothing more than shooting for MOA or better. The deer doesn't know or care if the rifle that shot it is shooting 2,3 or 4 minutes, all that matters is if the rifle can shoot minute of deer chest but putting neat little clovers on a paper target is fun. Lawns are pretty boring targets and it's human nature to see what can be done. Tony At 10:13 AM 1/15/02 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Bob and Bill, Just for fun here, only trying to further discussion and explain the psycheof the "average" gathering attendee. I'm only a fair to middlin' caster, butwith a six weight flyline, I can hit 25 feet, with no rod at all. Using onlyone's hands, it's just a matter of timing. Agreed, some rods are morecomfortable than others, but any rod which won't cast well at 25-30 feet isliterally worse than no rod at all. The reason many of us try to see if we can reach the backing is more than anego thing... It's just plain fun. Saturday night a fellow came to my booth inNashville with the first bamboo rod he's built. He couldn't get it to cast aswell as he thought it should. It was a PHY Perfectionist taper, and somehow hehad gotten the idea it was a 3 weight. I couldn't convince him it was a 5weight until I put a line on it, and we went to the parking lot. I never toldhim I'd cut 25 feet off the back of that 5 weight line, making it only 80 feetlong. When we cast the entire line, and 10 feet of backing, he thought hewasthe greatest rodmaker alive. I felt great. He felt great. It was fun. Maybe that's why we try to throwthat line a country mile. Isn't that why we do all of this? For fun? Harry pole." Bob Nunley wrote: Bill,I agree with you, not that it's the "right" way to see what goodattributes a rod has, but everyone seems to want to find out immediately how much line a rod can cast rather than how accurately a rod can deliver a fly. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from harms1@pa.net Tue Jan 15 11:00:24 2002 g0FH0NW20219 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:00:23 - Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Harry, Sure. It really IS all just for fun, and part of it is just fartin' aroundwith your friends, trying to get more distance from a rod than it'sordinarily supposed to get. If it's all for fun, I'm all for it! Even so, when I see a guy lay out astupendous amount of line from a small rod, I'm usually more impressed withthe caster than the rod. But it's the guys who take this big-distance thingseriously as the first and best test of a rod,that I was really talkingabout. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Bob and Bill, Just for fun here, only trying to further discussion and explain the psyche of the "average" gathering attendee. I'm only a fair to middlin' caster, but with a six weight flyline, I can hit 25 feet, with no rod at all. Using only one's hands, it's just a matter of timing. Agreed, some rods are morecomfortable than others, but any rod which won't cast well at 25-30 feet is literally worse than no rod at all. The reason many of us try to see if we can reach the backing is more than an ego thing... It's just plain fun. Saturday night a fellow came to my booth in Nashville with the first bamboo rod he's built. He couldn't get it to cast as well as he thought it should. It was a PHY Perfectionist taper, and somehow he had gotten the idea it was a 3 weight. I couldn't convince him it was a 5weight until I put a line on it, and we went to the parking lot. I never told him I'd cut 25 feet off the back of that 5 weight line, making it only 80 feet long. When we cast the entire line, and 10 feet of backing, he thought he was the greatest rodmaker alive. I felt great. He felt great. It was fun. Maybe that's why we try to throw that line a country mile. Isn't that why we do all of this? For fun? Harry fishin' pole." Bob Nunley wrote: Bill,I agree with you, not that it's the "right" way to see what goodattributes a rod has, but everyone seems to want to find outimmediately how much line a rod can cast rather than how accurately a rod can deliver a fly. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 11:06:31 2002 g0FH6UW20827 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:06:30 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Off topic - Engineering joke (WARNING: Not P.C.) Being a non-engineering type, I got a laugh out of this. Thought I wouldpass it along. A group of blondes in a class at the University of the Pacific were giventhe assignment to measure the height of a flagpole. So they went out to theflagpole with ladders and tape measures, and they're falling off theladders, dropping the tape measures - the whole thing was just a mess. Anengineering student comes along, sees what they're trying to do, walks over,pulls the flagpole out of the ground, lays it flat, measures it from end toend, and then gave measurement to one of the blondes and walked away.Afterthe engineer had gone, one blonde turned to another and laughed. "Isn't thatjust like a dumb engineer? We're looking for the height and he gives us thelength!" from mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Tue Jan 15 11:10:35 2002 g0FHAYW21357 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:10:34 - "Rod Makers" Subject: Re: Marlborough MA show Here is the info on the Marlborough Show: It is at the Royal Plaza Trade Center Jan18-20Fri: 11-7Sat: 9-6Sun: 9-5 www.flyfishingshow.com Hope to see you there! John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Marlborough MA show Could someone send me details, where / When. TIA Pete from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Jan 15 11:36:02 2002 g0FHa0W23890 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:36:00 - Subject: RE: Off topic - Engineering joke (WARNING: Not P.C.) Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools Thought blondes liked girth! -----Original Message----- Subject: Off topic - Engineering joke (WARNING: Not P.C.) Being a non-engineering type, I got a laugh out of this. Thought Iwould pass it along. A group of blondes in a class at the University of the Pacific weregiven the assignment to measure the height of a flagpole. So they wentout to the flagpole with ladders and tape measures, and they're fallingoff the ladders, dropping the tape measures - the whole thing was just amess. An engineering student comes along, sees what they're trying todo, walks over, pulls the flagpole out of the ground, lays it flat,measures it from end to end, and then gave measurement to one of theblondes and walked away. After the engineer had gone, one blonde turnedto another and laughed. "Isn't that just like a dumb engineer? We'relooking for the height and he gives us the length!" from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Tue Jan 15 11:51:58 2002 g0FHpvW25199 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:51:57 - 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 2002 11:51:57 -0600 Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Just some thoughts. It seems that at least part of what drives the quest for the perfect rod taper is the desire to extend the material properties of the cane (particularly stiffness) by altering the geometry of the rod (which should minimize the weight gain compared to the increase in stiffness). If this perfect geometry were used then the stiffness might be more easily varied without appreciable increases in thickness or weight of the blank. It seems like the rectangular shape is shooting for this by increasing the thickness and hence stiffness in the plane of the cast and pairing it off where it counts less (perpendicular to the plane of the cast). It seems like you could also experiment with this type of variance with a hex shaped rod, not just a square one. If you make the two splines on each side larger and then cut off the inner apex this would then let the outside edges sit closer together so that the subsquent four smaller splines match up to the outside edges and you would get an elongated hex. Since I think you would want the long cross sectional axis to be in the casting plane this would put a corner straight up and down. I would guess you would have to flatten one of these corners enough to have a surface to mount the guide feet on. This design would put the powerfibers that most come into tension and compression the furthest from the center axis and therefore have a greater effect than they would in a symmetric hex with an increase in stiffness. Is this just crazy?cheers.Jon McAnulty I hope this description is intelligible. from Soignier54@aol.com Tue Jan 15 12:04:09 2002 g0FI48W26071 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:04:08 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:03:47 - Subject: RE: burnisher List, Being a new builder (asking only 1 question last year) I had to wait to see if anyonehad built the same "special burnisher" I did. I built mine very carefully from a hand selected piece ( from many choices) of scrap bamboo strip....blond, about 6" long. Not really an engineering feat, compared to what some are doing out there, but it works, and I like it because I can trim/tune it up as needed. I shaved one end to point and tapered it slightly ( from the pith side) so that I'm using "power fibers" to pack the thread. I use the back (enamel still on) to burnish with other end. Can't beat the price which also helps avoid bad business relationships....specifications availableoff list only. -Brian Smith List, Being a new builder (asking only 1 question last year) I had to wait tosee if anyone carefully from a hand selected piece ( from many choices) of scrap bamboo strip....blond, are doing out there, but it shaved one end to point and tapered it slightly ( from the pith side) so that still on) to burnish with other end. Can't beat the price which also helps avoidbad business relationships....specifications available from rextutor@yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 12:20:39 2002 g0FIKcW27098 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:20:38 - 15 Jan 2002 10:20:38 PST Subject: Taper request Phillipson Pacemaker 8.5 feet Could you please provide the taper for a PhillipsonPacemaker 8.5 feet. I understand there are nymph anddry version tips. Ricks rods does not have them. TIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Jan 15 13:28:46 2002 g0FJSjW00558 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:28:45 -0600 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:28:36 -0800 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:28:35 GMT Subject: Montagne FILETIME=[D3ADC490:01C19DFA] Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: ClickHere from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Jan 15 13:56:30 2002 g0FJuTW02804 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:56:29 - Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:55:35 -0700 0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:56:23 -0700 Subject: Varish FILETIME=[99063760:01C19DFE] g0FJuUW02807 All, Does anybody know of a common, readily available gas that could be used toevacuate the air out of a varnish container. (for the purpose of keeping thevarnish fresh during storage) I was thinking about looking for the aerosolversion of the varnish I use and just spraying it into the container to driveout the air. I'm not sure if this would screw up the chemistry or if it wouldeven work. I know there is an existing aerosol product made especially forthis purpose, but its expensive, and as I recall, the gas is not a common one.Any ideas on this one? Thanks! JIM from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Jan 15 14:03:38 2002 g0FK3bW04494 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:03:37 - Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:02:44 -0700 0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:03:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Varnish FILETIME=[985FC8C0:01C19DFF] g0FK3cW04495 Correction to the subject line "James Harris" 01/15/02 12:56PM >>> All, Does anybody know of a common, readily available gas that could be used toevacuate the air out of a varnish container. (for the purpose of keeping thevarnish fresh during storage) I was thinking about looking for the aerosolversion of the varnish I use and just spraying it into the container to driveout the air. I'm not sure if this would screw up the chemistry or if it wouldeven work. I know there is an existing aerosol product made especially forthis purpose, but its expensive, and as I recall, the gas is not a common one.Any ideas on this one? Thanks! JIM from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Jan 15 14:04:50 2002 g0FK4oW04706 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:04:50 - Subject: Fly line taper Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools Anyone know of an easy way to tell which end of an unmarked line istapered?Have WF5 that came out of the package missing it's tag. TIA, Pete from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Jan 15 14:13:31 2002 g0FKDVW05578 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:13:31 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:00:24 -0600 "'Rod Makers'" Subject: RE: Fly line taper Yep -- Uncoil it and fold it in half. About 20 feet in from the ends, compare thediameters. The thicker one will be the head end. TAM FWIW, you can also do this while it is still coiled, if the coil is"organized" enough that one end is on the inside and the other is on theoutside. -----Original Message----- Subject: Fly line taper Anyone know of an easy way to tell which end of an unmarked line istapered?Have WF5 that came out of the package missing it's tag. TIA, Pete from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 15 14:34:56 2002 g0FKYtW06771 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:34:55 -0600 15 Jan 2002 12:34:54 PST Subject: silk flylines all, some time in the past there was a discussionabout someone who was splicing a silk furled leader asa forward taper on a level flyline. who was it? ...and i can not seem to find the the web page aboutrehabbing silk fly lines. old age is coming at metoday. if some one would give me a hand upplease.....some one handes me an old silk line thisweekend and i thought i would play around some withit. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jan 15 14:57:02 2002 g0FKv1W08201 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:57:01 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: silk flylines timotheus, I have an article on restoring silk lines under "Articles" on my website as well as an extract on splicing silk lines under "Extracts" I hope this helps.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ timothy troester wrote: all, some time in the past there was a discussionabout someone who was splicing a silk furled leader asa forward taper on a level flyline. who was it? ...and i can not seem to find the the web page aboutrehabbing silk fly lines. old age is coming at metoday. if some one would give me a hand upplease.....some one handes me an old silk line thisweekend and i thought i would play around some withit. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ . -- > from lblan@provide.net Tue Jan 15 15:00:57 2002 Received: from provide.net (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.5b5) with HTTP id 9396823; Tue,15 Jan 2002 16:00:56 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Varnish , X-Mailer:CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.5b5 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:00:56 - lblan@provide.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thecommercial product is known as Bloxygen. I believe I have seen another onetoo. How about CO2? A bit of baking powder and vinegar in a container, andthen "pour" the gas into your varnish container. The Bloxygen really iseconomical, it doesn't take that much of a squirt into a container, especiallya dip tube. Larry Blan On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:03:23 -0700 "James Harris"wrote: Correction to the subject line "James Harris" 01/15/02 12:56PM >>>All, Does anybody know of a common, readily available gas thatcould be used to evacuate the air out of a varnishcontainer. (for the purpose of keeping the varnish freshduring storage) I was thinking about looking for theaerosol version of the varnish I use and just spraying itinto the container to drive out the air. I'm not sure ifthis would screw up the chemistry or if it would evenwork. I know there is an existing aerosol product madeespecially for this purpose, but its expensive, and as Irecall, the gas is not a common one.Any ideas on this one? Thanks! JIM from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Jan 15 15:24:49 2002 g0FLOmW10442 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:24:48 -0600 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:24:43 -0800 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:24:43 GMT Subject: Montagne FILETIME=[0C6F1580:01C19E0B] Hello Reed: using a 6 inch long wet fly was really a good one. Was he casting over theedge of a cliff? their boots when they hear that Montagne and old EXCALIBUR are on theirway to the casting games. At this years ACA National Distance CastingChampionship the top three distances were 171-164 and 163 ft. This was alldone on grass and with the use of a 10 wt distance line and the use of adistance fly that measure's about 1/2 inch in length, go figure. he's now starting to believe his own stories. I wish that he and Montagnecould meet one another. JimJoin the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from James.Hatch@METROKC.GOV Tue Jan 15 15:26:55 2002 g0FLQsW10715 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:26:54 - id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:26:53 -0800 Subject: Getting Started this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Hi -- I've been a member of the list for awhile, but haven't submittedanything because I'm not a rodmaker. I enjoy the repartee a lot. I'd liketo build my own rod. I've been fishing with bamboo for about ten years andhave amassed a small collection of pretty good quality production rods --Heddon and Granger. I enjoy them, but want the satisfaction of buildingone. Where should I start? Are any books recommended? Where are tools,forms, etc. obtained? Is it possible to do a sort of apprenticeship?Darryl Whitehead lives about 6 blocks from me, but he seems pretty grumpyabout teaching an out-and-out beginner. I imagine these types of questionshave many answers, but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks verymuch, Badger Getting Started Hi -- I've been a member of the list = have amassed a small collection of pretty good quality production rods = about 6 blocks from me, but he seems pretty grumpy about teaching an =out-and-out beginner. I imagine these types of questions have many = much, Badger from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jan 15 15:39:22 2002 g0FLdKW11535 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:39:21 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Montagne Jim, I never dispute the distance a person casts, or the actual size of the fish he releases. I may not believe it, but oftentimes he does. Heck, I've known fish to grow 4" or more in fifteen minutes... after release. I only wish my fish were as cooperative.:)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jim Bureau wrote: Hello Reed: It's not Montagne's intelligence that bothers me, it's that anyone could believe his bullshit that's beyond me. Ripping 100 plus feet of line out of the water and making a 140 ft cast while using a 6 inch long wet fly was really a good one. Was he casting over the edge of a cliff? from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Jan 15 15:44:34 2002 g0FLiYW11902 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:44:34 - Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:43:40 -0700 0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:44:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Varnish FILETIME=[B238B9B0:01C19E0D] g0FLiYW11905 LarryI was wandering how long a can of bloxygen would last. You certainly don'tget a feel for it's quantity/volume by hefting the can. I'll take your word forit's economy though. JIM 01/15/02 02:00PM >>> The commercial product is known as Bloxygen. I believe Ihave seen another one too. How about CO2? A bit of bakingpowder and vinegar in a container, and then "pour" the gasinto your varnish container. The Bloxygen really is economical, it doesn't take that muchof a squirt into a container, especially a dip tube. from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Tue Jan 15 15:51:15 2002 g0FLpEW12493 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:51:14 -0600 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:51:09 -0800 Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:51:08 GMT Subject: Culture in Da UP FILETIME=[BD927F70:01C19E0E] To those members of the listwho have never had the chance to visit the Upper Peninsula of Michigan I'dlike to invite you to share in a unique winter experience, held every year inthe villiage of Trenary. The outhouse classic is a Yooper's idea of a culture.Check outwww.outhouseclassic.com JimSend and receive Hotmail on your mobiledevice: ClickHere from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Jan 15 16:18:36 2002 g0FMIZW14008 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:18:35 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:18:35 -0600 "'lblan@provide.net '","'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu '" Subject: RE: Varnish Jim, I have been using the same can for the past two years. That tops the diptube for about 25 rods each dipped three times. I think the can is gettingnearly empty, but have been thinking that for a little over a year! Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Varnish LarryI was wandering how long a can of bloxygen would last. You certainlydon't get a feel for it's quantity/volume by hefting the can. I'll takeyour word for it's economy though. JIM 01/15/02 02:00PM >>> The commercial product is known as Bloxygen. I believe Ihave seen another one too. How about CO2? A bit of bakingpowder and vinegar in a container, and then "pour" the gasinto your varnish container. The Bloxygen really is economical, it doesn't take that muchof a squirt into a container, especially a dip tube. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Jan 15 16:29:04 2002 g0FMT2W14869 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:29:02 - (authenticated) Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:30:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Getting Started --------------D632985CD12F10760E626062 James, A good place to get started is with one or more goodbooks. For those just starting out, I highly recommend thebooks by Wayne Cattanach and/or Jack Howell and/or GeorgeMaurer/Bernie Elser. Any of the three will give you somegood ideas to begin digesting. Once you've read and studiedthose, get Ray Gould's book. Finally, once you've built afew rods, read Everett Garrison/Hoagy Carmichael's book. I'm guessing you're in the Seattle area. There arequite a few good rodmakers up there who might well bewilling to let you hang around and ask a bunch of questions,including the aforementioned Ray Gould. Later in the year,there is a gathering of Rodmakers from the NW. Thatgathering might be a good place to get some info. But you've already stumbled on one of the very bestsources for rodmaking information. The archives of thisemail list are filled with almost every question that can beasked about bamboo rods - from "what is bamboo" to thecurrent discussion of Michael Montaigne's ideas aboutcomputer generated rod tapers. And I know you don't want to hear it, but I put on afree seminar on the basics of building a bamboo rod thispast weekend at the National Rodbuilders Conclave. You justmissed it. Welcome aboard.Harry Boyd "Hatch, James" wrote: Hi -- I've been a member of the list for awhile, buthaven't submitted anything because I'm not a rodmaker. Ienjoy the repartee a lot. I'd like to build my own rod. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------D632985CD12F10760E626062 James, good once you've built a few rods, read Everett Garrison/Hoagy Carmichael'sbook. are quite a few good rodmakers up there who might well be willing to letyou hang around and ask a bunch of questions, including the aforementioned are filled with almost every question that can be asked about bamboo rods- from "what is bamboo" to the current discussion of Michael Montaigne's a free seminar on the basics of building a bamboo rod this past weekend "Hatch, James" wrote: Hi -- I've been a member of the list rod. --Harry Boyd --------------D632985CD12F10760E626062-- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Jan 15 16:39:35 2002 g0FMdYW15455 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:39:34 - helo=g2t8c9) id 16QcEv-0005Yp-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:39:33 -0800 Subject: Perfect Rod This discussion on the "Perfect Rod" remains me of the old saying "I amlooking for the right person". Well it seems to me that folk who spend somuch time for looking the "Right Person" are often rather quirky, odd orjust plain weird. And so goes fly fishing. Flies are a good example, howmany of us spend an off season tying up a special fly only to end up usingflies that were tied up many season past? Things change. Fly rods are likegolf clubs. Sure you can play a round of golf with one club but who wouldwant to? The obvious thing is "Sometimes you feel like a nut sometimes youdont". I like them all Tip caster, med flex, parabolic, round, square,rectangle whatever. I am building a 8'4" parabolic 4wt. Designed with highweeds and 7x tippet in mind. This sucker bends into the grip and tosses50feet of line with no problem. Does not need to cast any further becauseyou cant see a 22 trico 1/2 that distance anyway. I am calling it my"ParaTrico" This rod will be perfect when I am sitting on my butt, head down, withearthtone clothes casting over sting nettles hooking nice trout with itsybitsy flies. Some peoples perfect rod is another persons broomstick! Adam Vigil from channer@frontier.net Tue Jan 15 18:38:07 2002 g0G0c6W20233 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:38:07 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:38:10 - Subject: Re: the perfect flyrod Bob;I prefer to listen to country music backwards, so your dog comes home,your pickup truck runs again and your woman don't leave ya.john Bob Nunley wrote: Steven and others who don't understand the references to Momma, Prison,Trains, etc. in this thread,Just so you'll know what they're talking about, there was an old song bya Country entertainer named David Allen Coe. from jerryy@webtv.net Tue Jan 15 19:00:30 2002 g0G10UW20917 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:00:30 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2113.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA27974; ETAsAhQab+E2OYeOmU5p5ERlShtKX8hZRwIUCClty0ASqYi9VYRvpTpM2/5ucl0= Subject: Re: Culture in Da UP 2002 21:51:08 Jim - Then after the race you can use them for your spearing shanty onBig Knocker Bay. Jerry Young from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Jan 15 19:58:16 2002 g0G1wFW22360 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:58:15 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16QfL5-0003OQ-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:58:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Getting Started James:I second all that Harry said plus you might want to consider acquiring =the video by Wayne Cattanach, available from Cabelas.Regards.Ed Subject: Re: Getting Started A good place to get started is with one or more good books. For =those just starting out, I highly recommend the books by Wayne Cattanach =and/or Jack Howell and/or George Maurer/Bernie Elser. Any of the three =will give you some good ideas to begin digesting. Once you've read and =studied those, get Ray Gould's book. Finally, once you've built a few = I'm guessing you're in the Seattle area. There are quite a few =good rodmakers up there who might well be willing to let you hang around =and ask a bunch of questions, including the aforementioned Ray Gould. =Later in the year, there is a gathering of Rodmakers from the NW. That = But you've already stumbled on one of the very best sources for =rodmaking information. The archives of this email list are filled with =almost every question that can be asked about bamboo rods - from "what =is bamboo" to the current discussion of Michael Montaigne's ideas about = And I know you don't want to hear it, but I put on a free seminar =on the basics of building a bamboo rod this past weekend at the National = Hi -- I've been a member of the list for awhile, but haven't =submitted anything because I'm not a rodmaker. I enjoy the repartee a =lot. I'd like to build my own rod. James:I second all that Harry said plus you = Cabelas.Regards.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Harry= Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002= PMSubject: Re: Getting =Started Wayne Cattanach and/or Jack Howell and/or George Maurer/Bernie = Any of the three will give you some good ideas to begin = you've built a few rods, read Everett Garrison/Hoagy Carmichael's = quite a few good rodmakers up there who might well be willing to let = filled with almost every question that can be asked about bamboo rods = "what is bamboo" to the current discussion of Michael Montaigne's = free seminar on the basics of building a bamboo rod this past weekend = = Hi -- I've been a member of = awhile, but haven't submitted anything because I'm not a = rod. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Jan 15 20:38:37 2002 g0G2caW23985 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:38:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Reel seats In a message dated 01/15/2002 5:56:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca writes: from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Jan 15 21:09:00 2002 g0G38xW24835 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:08:59 -0600 Subject: Re: The band/ delete if not interested in Student Rick In a message dated 1/15/02 9:08:01 AM Central Standard Time, jojo@ipa.netwrites: Hey! not to sound too "rush ish" but Ditto! This is a list of "friends" as much as anything else! Manditory fly riod content. Went to the second week of Fly tying class tonight. Had a great time as usual, Learned some good stuff! Working on a custom fly box! mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from oakmere@carol.net Tue Jan 15 21:14:41 2002 g0G3EeW25133 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:14:40 -0600 g0G3BuQ10691 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:11:57 -0500 Subject: RE: Montagne Hi Lee and other Folks: I haven't said too much lately since I have been working on bamboo rodrestoration. First, I am a Mechanical Engineer with considerable backgroundin the mechanics and dynamic behavior of fly rods. While most of myresearch work (some is quoted in Don Phillips book on Fly Rod Technology)has been on graphite rods, the same engineering principles apply to bamboorods. While the Garrison approach based on basic static cantilever beamtheory is not the latest approach to analyis of rod deformation (today oneuses nonlinear and finite element theories to model the dynamic deformationwhich is complex), it is quite adequate when designing rods (my opinion)given ones ability to produce the engineering tolerances we do with bamboorods. With all respect to the interview with Montagne, I spent considerable timereading it. Mr. Montagne uses lots of TechniSpeak (as Lee notes) that Ibelieve most technically trained folks would not understand. I surely donot, and I have a doctoral degree in Mechanical Engineering (you guys canjump on me since I know it stands for Piled Higher and Deeper).Additionally, I have read about every thing that I can find that has beenpublished on fly rod design and dynamics (that is how one does academicresearch) by many noted rod designers/writers, and I have not encounteredmany of the words used by Mr. Montagne. The description used by Mr. Lee iscorrect, the behavior of a fly rod is based on a total system - that is thecaster, flyrod, and line. Since one can have the same flyrod and line, buta different caster, that is why I like one rod and someone else does not.The real key to efficient rod mechanics is the coupling between caster,rod, and line. If you spend a day on the river and your arm is tired thenone is probably not an efficient caster. But who said this game wascasting. It is catching fish, so the real key is - are we comfortable withthe rods and lines we use for angling and are we having fun. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Jan 15 21:14:43 2002 g0G3EgW25139 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:14:42 - Subject: Re: Off topic - joke (WARNING: Not P.C.) A Bamboo rodmaker walks into a library and says to the librarian, " I would like a double Cheesburger, large fries and a coke please."The Librarian says, "I am sorry sir, but this is a LIBRARY!"The Rodmaker says "OH, sorry!" then wispers "I would like a double cheesburger, large fries and a coke!" mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Tue Jan 15 22:00:17 2002 g0G40GW26296 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:00:16 - Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:00:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Varnish FILETIME=[4B407470:01C19E42] Here is one that does not work. The stuff that you buy at office supplystores to blow dust out of cameras and computer keyboards. I do not use bloxygen, but if I am not going to be dipping, I drip abouttwenty drops of mineral spirits on top of the varnish. Seems to keep it fromdrying out fairly well. Jeff from LambersonW@missouri.edu Tue Jan 15 22:06:31 2002 g0G46UW26594 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:06:30 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:06:30 -0600 "'Rod Makers List Serve '" Subject: RE: "The Perfect Rod" It seems like your approach to building an irregular hex would work.Montagne placed the guides on the wider flat and in his interview with Reedexplained the reasoning with respect to the stresses. My limited experiencewith the rectangular sections suggest that placing the guides on thenarrower flat just causes the rod to twist as it is cast because it prefersto bend across the softer plane. It seems likely that the widened hexrelative to a rectangular section would have extra material on the neutralaxis (the "points" on the sides) that contribute extra weight, but not muchextra stiffness. The widened hex should have the advantage in castingaccuracy that I noted with my rectangular rods and as was also noted by Jan.It shouldn't be a problem to vary the ratio of height to width with yourmethod so the change in taper and change in H:W ration could emulateMontagne's idea, of course hollowing could be included as well if desired.It would probably be easier to build than a rectangular because it wouldavoid the usual problems associated with building a quad. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Just some thoughts. It seems that at least part of what drives the quest for the perfect rod taper is the desire to extend the material properties of the cane (particularly stiffness) by altering the geometry of the rod (which should minimize the weight gain compared to the increase in stiffness). If this perfect geometry were used then the stiffness might be more easily varied without appreciable increases in thickness or weight of the blank. It seems like the rectangular shape is shooting for this by increasing the thickness and hence stiffness in the plane of the cast and pairing it off where it counts less (perpendicular to the plane of the cast). It seems like you could also experiment with this type of variance with a hex shaped rod, not just a square one. If you make the two splines on each side larger and then cut off the inner apex this would then let the outside edges sit closer together so that the subsquent four smaller splines match up to the outside edges and you would get an elongated hex. Since I think you would want the long cross sectional axis to be in the casting plane this would put a corner straight up and down. I would guess you would have to flatten one of these corners enough to have a surface to mount the guide feet on. This design would put the powerfibers that most come into tension and compression the furthest from the center axis and therefore have a greater effect than they would in a symmetric hex with an increase in stiffness. Is this just crazy?cheers.Jon McAnulty I hope this description is intelligible. from tedknott@cogeco.ca Tue Jan 15 22:07:26 2002 g0G47PW26715 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:07:25 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:07:25 - Subject: Knurling with Milgrain Wheels A year or two back there was some info about using jewellers milgrainwheels to produce fine rope knurls on reel bands. Is anyone doing this? Ihave a 10" Southbend lathe and wonder how these fairly small tools wouldwork. It appears from the catalog that they are intended for worksmaller/softer than the nickel silver that we use. Any advice on milgrainwheel use and set-up for my lathe? from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Jan 15 22:10:38 2002 g0G4AbW26942 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:10:37 - for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:18:00 -0500 Subject: varnish I've been using the product from Office Depot for several years, thecurrent can does not have the specific formulation, but I recall itsthat same stuff as Bloxogen. I punch 2 nail holes in the varnish can lidon oppsite sides. Insert the tube in one and very, very gently add gas my dip tube. Cover with strips of duct tape. Probably cheaper thanBloxogen at 2 cans for $7.95 on sale - also works for cleaning the mouseand cpu. from stoltz10@attbi.com Tue Jan 15 22:10:57 2002 g0G4AuW27005 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:10:56 - Subject: Dickerson 8013 Well the varnish drying on my first rod a 209E I've decided to start =splitting cane for my second rod. I'm thinking about making a 8013, =what is everyone's opinion of this taper, and will a super z style =ferrule work with it? Tim Well the varnish drying on my first rod= making a 8013, what is everyone's opinion of this taper, and will a = style ferrule work with it? Tim from lblan@provide.net Tue Jan 15 22:11:29 2002 g0G4BSW27161 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:11:28 - for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:11:25 - Subject: RE: Varnish I have to admit, it does take a certain leap of faith to take an "empty" canup to the cash register. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Varnish LarryI was wandering how long a can of bloxygen would last. Youcertainly don't get a feel for it's quantity/volume by heftingthe can. I'll take your word for it's economy though. JIM 01/15/02 02:00PM >>> The commercial product is known as Bloxygen. I believe Ihave seen another one too. How about CO2? A bit of bakingpowder and vinegar in a container, and then "pour" the gasinto your varnish container. The Bloxygen really is economical, it doesn't take that muchof a squirt into a container, especially a dip tube. from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Jan 16 04:26:37 2002 g0GAQaW03500 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:26:36 - Subject: Re: Varnish In a message dated 1/15/02 10:12:04 PM Central Standard Time, lblan@provide.net writes: People who spend $8 on a can of air are the same ones who spend $1 on a 16oz bottle of water! BTW, $1 for 16oz= $8 per gallon! A bit more than Gasoline! mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Jan 16 04:33:29 2002 g0GAXRW03725 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:33:28 - g0GAXDX90455; Subject: Re: 8' 2 wt ???????????? Hey, Tony, that's great! I too am too stupid to learn to use Hexrod; but I thought I was the onlyone. Peter from utzerath@execpc.com Wed Jan 16 06:09:53 2002 g0GC9qW05011 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:09:53 - g0GC9qV78661; g0GC9oD86866; Subject: Re: Getting Started-(Harry how did the conclave go?) Harry,As long as you brought up the subject. How did you like being one of =the highlights of the Guild conclave (as someone posted on their forum)? =I've corresponded with a few members, great guys (not a lot of cane =experience, though) but never saw much use for the Guild itself. No one =would ever say what their discounts amounted to, and their =member- recruiting form-letters were all hyped-up and irritating. What =did you think?Jim U Subject: Re: Getting Started A good place to get started is with one or more good books. For =those just starting out, I highly recommend the books by Wayne Cattanach =and/or Jack Howell and/or George Maurer/Bernie Elser. Any of the three =will give you some good ideas to begin digesting. Once you've read and =studied those, get Ray Gould's book. Finally, once you've built a few = I'm guessing you're in the Seattle area. There are quite a few =good rodmakers up there who might well be willing to let you hang around =and ask a bunch of questions, including the aforementioned Ray Gould. =Later in the year, there is a gathering of Rodmakers from the NW. That = But you've already stumbled on one of the very best sources for =rodmaking information. The archives of this email list are filled with =almost every question that can be asked about bamboo rods - from "what =is bamboo" to the current discussion of Michael Montaigne's ideas about = And I know you don't want to hear it, but I put on a free seminar =on the basics of building a bamboo rod this past weekend at the National = Hi -- I've been a member of the list for awhile, but haven't =submitted anything because I'm not a rodmaker. I enjoy the repartee a =lot. I'd like to build my own rod. Harry, = being one of the highlights of the Guild conclave (as someone = of cane experience, though) but never saw much use for the Guild = you think?Jim U ----- Original Message ----- Harry= Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002= PMSubject: Re: Getting =Started Wayne Cattanach and/or Jack Howell and/or George Maurer/Bernie = Any of the three will give you some good ideas to begin = you've built a few rods, read Everett Garrison/Hoagy Carmichael's = quite a few good rodmakers up there who might well be willing to let = filled with almost every question that can be asked about bamboo rods = "what is bamboo" to the current discussion of Michael Montaigne's = free seminar on the basics of building a bamboo rod this past weekend = = Hi -- I've been a member of = awhile, but haven't submitted anything because I'm not a = rod. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 16 06:19:44 2002 g0GCJgW05407 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:19:42 - Subject: Re: Varnish Would carbon dioxide do the same job? It sinks so making some and "pouring" it into the tube wouldn't be difficult. TY At 05:26 AM 1/16/02 -0500, Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/15/02 10:12:04 PM Central Standard Time,lblan@provide.net writes: canup to the cash register. Larry Blan >> People who spend $8 on a can of air are the same ones who spend $1 on a16 ozbottle of water! BTW, $1 for 16oz= $8 per gallon! A bit more thanGasoline! mark visit Marks Magic Workshophttp://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Jan 16 08:01:18 2002 g0GE1HW07040 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:01:18 -0600 Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:01:08 -0800 Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:01:08 GMT Subject: Montagne FILETIME=[3F35FBB0:01C19E96] Hello Reed: he could read all of the responses to his theory's, made by the list exactly what this list needs to keep things interesting. Perhaps if more ofthe same were taking place, many of the guys who've left the list would havechoosen to stay on, instead of moving on. JimChat with friends online, try MSNMessenger: ClickHere from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 16 08:13:43 2002 g0GEDgW07501 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:13:42 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Payne 198, Comments please?? Hi all,I'm starting a Payne 198 (for myself hopefully??). Does anyonehave experience with this taper?? Looks very nice from the graph.The archives shows a little discussion on this rod as to what linewt it casts.The taper archives shows it as a 7'6" 4 wt 3 pc rod althoughin my later Payne catalogues it is shown as a 6 wt?I would love to hear anyone's comments on this rod. It looks to bea nice break from the Young / Dickerson lifestyle I have been leadinglately ;^)Should make a nice rod for browns this spring, MMMMmmm hurry up andget here fishing season, I'm starting to contemplate building a mini rodand a tiny fly to go after my daughters goldfish, (yes it seems likethat long since I've been out fishing!)Shawn from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 16 08:32:12 2002 g0GEWBW08955 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:32:11 - (authenticated) Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:33:29 -0800 Subject: Re: Getting Started-(Harry how did the conclave go?) --------------D47968F62258BA08268400B9 Jim, I'll give you a rather schizophrenic answer,if that's okay. I thoroughly enjoyed theConclave. Though the Guild is a very neworganization, they find themselves in the middleof the process of laying a strong foundation. Ifthe current course is maintained, the Guild willbe an even finer group five years from now than itis today.At the same time, my perception is that thereis more than a little skepticism and paranoiaconcerning fly fishing in general. Let's face it,whether it's true or not, we fly fisherman areseen as snobs. (Perhaps that's rightly so, sincewe are so much better than everyone else! :- ))Some of those who build in other formats justcan't see the art in a simple, well executed flyrod.And cane rods? More than one person looked atme like I was nuts. Again, that may or may not betrue depending on one's perspective.Still, there was quite a lot of interest inthings bamboo. Most of the group had wonderfulthings to say about bamboo rods. Four of theofficers of the Guild are bamboo nuts. I had aconstant crowd around my table. Even managed tosell a little stuff. My class was lots of fun,and as the teacher, I learned far more than theparticipants, as usual. Gary Loomis stopped by mytable. He and I spent about an hour talking, andI learned way, way more from him than you wouldguess. He knows his stuff, even if I'm not thebiggest fan of the company which bears his name. So, positives? Strong foundation, goodpeople, lots of potential, discounts on components from 10% - 50% (I'd be glad to share thosenumbers privately).Negatives? Still in infancy, gettingorganized. What would I change? Well, don't take thisthe wrong way, but some of these guys arewaaaaayyyyy too anal. Therefore, fun was not onthe top of their list. The banquet on Saturdaygot boring after the Speakers (who did quite well)sat down. My perception, as a Kappa Alpha, trueSouthern Gentleman, too many folks from the wrongside of the Mason Dixon line were on themicrophone. Give one of us redneck boys that mic'and we'd liven things up, more than a little. Youknow, "you don't have to call me darlin',Darlin!"? And the trip to Nashville and back? Well, itwas the trip from hell. But that's another story. Questions?Harry Jim Utzerath wrote: Harry,As long as you brought up the subject.How did you like being one of the highlights ofthe Guild conclave (as someone posted on theirforum)? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------D47968F62258BA08268400B9 Jim, a very new organization, they find themselves in the middle of the process the Guild will be an even finer group five years from now than it is today. thereis more than a little skepticism and paranoia concerning fly fishing in other formats just can't see the art in a simple, well executed fly rod. on one's perspective. He and I spent about an hour talking, and I learned way, way more from biggest fan of the company which bears his name. people, glad to share those numbers privately). organized. Therefore, perception,as a Kappa Alpha, true Southern Gentleman, too many folks from the wrong You know, "you don't have to call me darlin', Darlin!"? Jim Utzerath wrote:Harry,As long highlights of the Guild conclave (as someone posted on theirforum)?-- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------D47968F62258BA08268400B9-- from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Jan 16 08:40:26 2002 g0GEePW09550 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:40:25 - GAA21136; GAA14509; g0GEeLW04433; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:40:08 -0800 James.Hatch@METROKC.GOV Subject: RE: Getting Started this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. he must live in Oregon because that's where D. Whitehead moved to. He iskind of grumpy to people with no skills as far as teaching them. He operatedwith what I would call apprentices, Russ at Golden Witch learned from Mr..Whitehead. The rod makers workshop, which just happens to be the veryfirstone 16 years old (8th biennial) and still going strong, fills up in a heartbeat and takes place at Corbett Lake B.C.. Previous participants get firstpick and if there are any spots left over it's first come first serve. Myguess is that it's full already. Last year Per Brandin brought HoagyCarmichael with him and we got to cast real garrisons and some of Hoagiesrods. Bob Millward is there every year and brings some of his great speyrods with him. Last time we had the pleasure of meeting and getting to knowMr.. Biondo, that was great. Of Mr.. Zimny is there for every one with hisgreat wealth of knowledge. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Getting Started James, A good place to get started is with one or more good books. For thosejust starting out, I highly recommend the books by Wayne Cattanach and/orJack Howell and/or George Maurer/Bernie Elser. Any of the three will giveyou some good ideas to begin digesting. Once you've read and studied those,get Ray Gould's book. Finally, once you've built a few rods, read EverettGarrison/Hoagy Carmichael's book. I'm guessing you're in the Seattle area. There are quite a few goodrodmakers up there who might well be willing to let you hang around and aska bunch of questions, including the aforementioned Ray Gould. Later in theyear, there is a gathering of Rodmakers from the NW. That gathering mightbe a good place to get some info. But you've already stumbled on one of the very best sources forrodmaking information. The archives of this email list are filled withalmost every question that can be asked about bamboo rods - from "what isbamboo" to the current discussion of Michael Montaigne's ideas aboutcomputer generated rod tapers. And I know you don't want to hear it, but I put on a free seminar on thebasics of building a bamboo rod this past weekend at the NationalRodbuilders Conclave. You just missed it. Welcome aboard. Harry Boyd "Hatch, James" wrote: Hi -- I've been a member of the list for awhile, but haven't submittedanything because I'm not a rodmaker. I enjoy the repartee a lot. I'd liketo build my own rod. -- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ Our must live in Oregon because that's where D. Whitehead moved to. He is kindof grumpy to people with no skills as far as teaching them. He operated withwhat I would call apprentices, Russ at Golden Witch learned from Mr..Whitehead. The rod makers workshop, which just happens to be the veryfirst one 16 years old (8th biennial) and still going strong, fills up in a heartbeat and takes place at Corbett Lake B.C.. Previous participants get firstpick and if there are any spots left over it's first come first serve. My guessis that it's full already. Last year Per Brandin brought Hoagy Carmichael withhim and we got to cast real garrisons and some of Hoagies rods. Bob Millwardis there every year and brings some of his great spey rods with him. Lasttime we had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know Mr.. Biondo, thatwas great. Of Mr.. Zimny is there for every one with his great wealth of Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident RepairPlanning Phone: 425-234- M- 79 -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd 2:28 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Getting StartedJames, good Wayne Cattanach and/or Jack Howell and/or George Maurer/Bernie Once you've built a few rods, read Everett Garrison/Hoagy Carmichael's book. There are quite a few good rodmakers up there who might well be willing to let youhang around and ask a bunch of questions, including the aforementioned Ray best are filled with almost every question that can be asked about bamboo rods - from "what is bamboo" to the current discussion of Michael Montaigne's ideasabout computer generated rod tapers. free seminar on the basics of building a bamboo rod this past weekend atthe Boyd "Hatch, James" wrote: Hi -- I've been a member of the list I rod.-- Harry Boyd from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Jan 16 08:46:56 2002 g0GEkuW10176 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:46:56 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:46:56 -0600 rodmakers@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Payne 198, Comments please?? I built it from the taper published in The Planing Form. That one cast a #4very nicely. It was a very pleasant moderate action rod. It didn't havethe, to my taste, excessive stiffness of the Payne 101. I liked it! Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Payne 198, Comments please?? Hi all,I'm starting a Payne 198 (for myself hopefully??). Does anyonehave experience with this taper?? Looks very nice from the graph.The archives shows a little discussion on this rod as to what linewt it casts.The taper archives shows it as a 7'6" 4 wt 3 pc rod althoughin my later Payne catalogues it is shown as a 6 wt?I would love to hear anyone's comments on this rod. It looks to bea nice break from the Young / Dickerson lifestyle I have been leadinglately ;^)Should make a nice rod for browns this spring, MMMMmmm hurry up andget here fishing season, I'm starting to contemplate building a mini rodand a tiny fly to go after my daughters goldfish, (yes it seems likethat long since I've been out fishing!)Shawn from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Jan 16 08:55:36 2002 g0GEtZW10917 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:55:35 -0600 Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:55:22 -0800 Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:55:22 GMT Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out FILETIME=[D2D98790:01C19E9D] Hello Lee, Frank, and all he's trying to do is to market his rods by showing Jo Blow public just howsmart he is and how stupid the rest of the rodmaking fraternity is, beingthat we can't comprehend what it's all about. Sort of like the hacker will score better. approach to rod based upon the effort required to Simplistic, but bendform and background has made Mars. the genre of rod calculations, the energy flyfisherman. And the correct not a very good in my same. I think that perfect rod that members of I have already techspeak. Mike Montagne ( a Schwiebert did on his rods in philopophies can be found on Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Jan 16 09:03:45 2002 g0GF3iW11612 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:03:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Montagne Jim,Perhaps some have left the list because they couldn't pull the wool over =our eyes. tom Subject: Montagne Hello Reed:I think it's great that you did an interview with Montagne. I wish =he could read all of the responses to his theory's, made by the list =members. Not that he'd respond, but it'd be nice for him to know that he =hasn't managed to pull the wool over the eyes of the majority of the =members of this list. Topics like this interview is exactly what this =list needs to keep things interesting. Perhaps if more of the same were =taking place, many of the guys who've left the list would have choosen =to stay on, instead of moving on. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here Jim,Perhaps some have left the list because they = wool over our eyes. tom ----- Original Message ----- Bureau Sent: Wednesday, January 16, = PMSubject: Montagne Hello Reed: exactly what this list needs to keep things interesting. Perhaps if = the same were taking place, many of the guys who've left the list = choosen to stay on, instead of moving on. = Jim Here from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Jan 16 09:11:07 2002 g0GFB6W12209 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:11:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Jim, Funny you should bring up golf. Go to a pro and he'll video your swing =and digitize it. He'll then analyze your swing and pick the proper =shafts you should be using for your swing, figure out the right club =head weight to generate proper head speed, yadee yadee yaddaa. If fly =fishing was as popular as golf, you can gaurantee that fly shops would = If your going to get wacky about it, this is the route to go, at least =the casters style is brought into the equation. tom Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Hello Lee, Frank, and all I enjoyed reading your response's to Montagne. What I really think =he's trying to do is to market his rods by showing Jo Blow public just =how smart he is and how stupid the rest of the rodmaking fraternity is, =being that we can't comprehend what it's all about. Sort of like the =hacker golfer who's talked into buying a new set of pro line clubs so =he will score better. Jim I am an engineer and as such can understand Garrison's approach to = design, especially as it applies to developing other rods based upon = properties of a cantilever beam. Considering the manual effort = make the calculations, we need to applaud his efforts. Simplistic, = hardly crude. Montagne, imposing the concepts of ballistics, bendform = other new terminology, not familiar to my engineering background has = Regardless, both Garrison and Montagne and all the rest of the genre = designers have neglected to include in any of their calculations, the = source for moving the rod. The arm motion of a flyfisherman. And the = or best practice of delivering said energy. For myself, I am not a = possession at the time. I'm sure any of you can say the same. I think = Mr. Montagne has spent too much time trying to design the perfect rod = maybe only he will be able to use. I will settle for what most = this list make or my own and find a stream to use it. I think I have = I was fortunate enough to get a lengthy interview with Mike = great guy). You may remember the writeup Schwiebert did on his = A lengthy interview with Mike on his design philopophies can be = -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. Jim, the proper shafts you should be using for your swing, figure out the = these. Hmmmm.... If your going to get wacky about it, this is the = at least the casters style is brought into the equation. tom ----- Original Message ----- Bureau ; RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 16, = PMSubject: Re: Mike Montagne = out Hello Lee, Frank, and all he's trying to do is to market his rods by showing Jo Blow public just = smart he is and how stupid the rest of the rodmaking fraternity is, = will score better.= Jim Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Jan 16 09:17:50 2002 g0GFHnW12830 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:17:49 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out - a rebuttal Jim, I submitted the article because I feel that Mike has some ideas of interest to the rodmaking community. Personal attacks on Mike are unwarranted...he is not an active rodmaker and derives no financial benefit from his old rods. As for him proving himself smarter than others, Mike has a healthy self-image (as do many of us) which does not require additional enhancement. What Mike has DONE is to actually put into practice some theories: writing the software to test them, then creating the machines to build the rods. Whether we like Mike's style of address, or disagree with his science, nevertheless, he has acted upon his ideas, which is more than can be said for many of us, myself foremost.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jim Bureau wrote: Hello Lee, Frank, and all I enjoyed reading your response's to Montagne. What I really think he's trying to do is to market his rods by showing Jo Blow public just how smart he is and how stupid the rest of the rodmaking fraternity is, being that we can't comprehend what it's all about. Sort of like the hacker golfer who's talked into buying a new set of pro line clubs so he will score better. Jim from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Jan 16 09:41:34 2002 g0GFfYW14191 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:41:34 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:41:34 -0600 Subject: RE: Mike Montagne speaks out - a rebuttal Reed, I appreciate the effort that you have gone to in providing this information not discourage you from reporting on further contacts with Mr. Montagne.Given that he retired from building rods a number of years ago it seemsunlikely that his motivation for providing you information is from his ownself interest. I have not had the opportunity to cast a Montagne, but given the comments from those that have perhaps we would be wise to pay attention to what hesays. He has clearly done some things very well. Not that we all need togo out and copy his rods, we all know that one style of rod does not suiteveryone. We may still gain insight into how to improve the performance ofour rods. from Jan Nystrom: My casting experience of this rod: I have never cast a rod that powerfulwith such ease. It feels like casting a rod made for a line weight 2-3 lineclasses lighter. If casting under windy condition it also shines. It is mucheasier to throw your line where you aim because the rod is much lesssensitive to how the wind curves the line in the back cast. from Ernest Schweibert: Michael Montagne Quad Rods from "Trout" His four-strip design offers twice the density of cane power fibers found insix-strip construction of the same section thickness. Such four-strip sections offer more than mere power fibers. Montagne rodsresist bending across the corners, concentrating deflection in the castingplane. Such performance tends to correct casting faults that twist otherrods. Better distance and accuracy are also improved. Wave- linear behavioris crisp and clean. The ratio of power fibers to inert cane along theneutral bending axis is multiplied, even slightly higher than power fibersin the earlier Edwards Quadrates. This past September I was fishing with Kirk Gay at Six~Mile Lake in Alaska.Although I had seen a few Montagne rods, I had never cast or fished oneuntil another angler offered me his nine-foot steelhead model for aweight-forward eight line. Its smooth power and control in the Tularik windswere surprising, and its elegance was obvious. Its visual character wasstartling to other anglers, but its creativity and probity wereunmistakable. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out - a rebuttal Jim, I submitted the article because I feel that Mike has some ideas of interest to the rodmaking community. Personal attacks on Mike are unwarranted...he is not an active rodmaker and derives no financial benefit from his old rods. As for him proving himself smarter than others, Mike has a healthy self-image (as do many of us) which does not require additional enhancement. What Mike has DONE is to actually put into practice some theories: writing the software to test them, then creating the machines to build the rods. Whether we like Mike's style of address, or disagree with his science, nevertheless, he has acted upon his ideas, which is more than can be said for many of us, myself foremost.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jim Bureau wrote: Hello Lee, Frank, and all I enjoyed reading your response's to Montagne. What I really think he's trying to do is to market his rods by showing Jo Blow public just how smart he is and how stupid the rest of the rodmaking fraternity is, being that we can't comprehend what it's all about. Sort of like the hacker golfer who's talked into buying a new set of pro line clubs so he will score better. Jim from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Jan 16 10:09:26 2002 g0GG9PW15743 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:09:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Payne 198, Comments please?? Shawn.The std Payne #198 is a 5/6 wtg. The #'s reported on variouslists have the Model 198L listed which is a 4/5 wtg. What line wtg are youlooking for in 7'6" length? If you are looking for a 4wtg. look at the model197L. Let me know and I will send you a Taper.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Payne 198, Comments please?? Hi all,I'm starting a Payne 198 (for myself hopefully??). Does anyonehave experience with this taper?? Looks very nice from the graph.The archives shows a little discussion on this rod as to what linewt it casts.The taper archives shows it as a 7'6" 4 wt 3 pc rod althoughin my later Payne catalogues it is shown as a 6 wt?I would love to hear anyone's comments on this rod. It looks to bea nice break from the Young / Dickerson lifestyle I have been leadinglately ;^)Should make a nice rod for browns this spring, MMMMmmm hurry up andget here fishing season, I'm starting to contemplate building a mini rodand a tiny fly to go after my daughters goldfish, (yes it seems likethat long since I've been out fishing!)Shawn from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 16 10:28:09 2002 g0GGS6W17071 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:28:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Montagne I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with Mike and Reed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what I wasto write.There are some things about the comments on the list I've found a little hard to understand. I truly don't understand why all the flack and mention of baffling with bull shit. It's beyond me to follow the math however I can see the direction he wanted to head and the math was developed to try to achieve it. Maybe there is no easy way to explain it, possibly Mike doesn't care if anybody understands it anyhow?It's even harder to understand this behavior when you consider Mike didn't actually come on list to tell us all this in the same way TA graces us occasionally, Reed did an interview with him and published it on Reed's personal home page which we were invited to read. Mike is no threat and only told Reed what he was asked.Healthy debate is fine but to just discount it entirely out of hand is a bit intolerant of other's ideas as well as a bit rude to Reed IMHO who again IMHO did us a service with this interview and publication. You can develop a rod through trial and error or you can try to define things you want to have at the end and design it that way. from the way I read it he is absolutely right in assuming any alteration at any point on the rod will affect every other point so the rod needs to be designed with this in mind. The Garrison math doesn't even touch on this, so a combination of Garrison plus rocket science is what is required or don't all the people wanting to develop rods with Hex Rod want improvements in the technique? Hex Rod can't develop rod tapers, it can only indicate stress in a local area and is completely independent of the rod as a whole. You use it as a guide. It's a classic Edison/Tesla scenario. Edison and his crew knocked their heads against the wall making stuff in a trial and error way to patent while Tesla designed it first and more or less knew what the outcome was to be when it was made.I know everybody loves Edison and consider Tesla a crank but is that fair? I know Tesla was possibly a charlatan in some respects but he also developed the 60 cycle AC electrical system we all use as well as some amazing motors and turbines and who knows what else? Mike was coming from a different direction of rod development than everybody else took. His math was/is advanced to what Garrison had or thought of using considering all he (Garrison) had to work with was a slide rule and paper. Yes you can design anything with a slide rule and paper including sending men to the moon and returning them safely to the Earth again but is rod design worth the hassle?Mike armed with a computer, even a toy like the apple allowed much better and accurate calculations to be possible once the code was cut.The interesting thing here is if it *can* make Mike's perfect rod it could make yours too.The program doesn't need all the complications of force of cast and arm movement because there would have to be a standard based on (possibly Garrison's math) used and rod development could then simply depend on what the makers defined as required.Want to make a WC 7' #4 with a swollen butt but like the over all action of the original? Sure, swell the butt to these dimensions and adjust all others to these kind of thing. If Mike thinks his shit doesn't stink does that affect the outcome of his work? People who feel capable of great things are usually the ones who do in fact achieve great things. Even the quieter ones. Mike just happens to feel we all want to know what a genius he is (or may be). So what? I haven't a clue as to if Mike is having himself on or not and I'll admit I could be defending a person who hasn't a clue but if every time somebody surfaces with a different way of doing something and all he gets is rotten fruit thrown at him we'll continue to see the same crop of rods made the same way for the next 100 years. That's fine if all everybody wants is traditional looking rods of traditional designs but there's more to it than that as we'll all see if the Chinese ever get their act together because there will be NO difference between anybody's rods in reality apart from finish and that wont not be a problem for the Chinese either in the long run.If you doubt that ask anybody in the shoe, textiles, backpacking, machinery games.If you feel the guy's a loud mouth that's fine but his work may be great.I do have to admit I had a deep question in my mind about his voracity when I read there were three chunks of code and it was all more or less lost due to a combination of old hardware and software requirements until Reed told me it was written in BASIC, on an apple. That is a problem. I say 10 points to Mike. Like Reed wrote, he came up with original ideas, tested them, developed them, made the gear to make rods and as far as I could tell made decent rods for what he was after. I've read more than I should based on commonly accepted ideas, messed about lots more than I should following these ideas and trying to improve and still fall way far short of what I'm after. I for one would enjoy reading anything else Reed cares to trouble himself with and would like to publicly thank Reed for bothering. TY At 10:04 AM 1/16/02 -0500, Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Jim,Perhaps some have left the list because they couldn't pull the wool over our eyes. tom ----- Original Message -----From: Jim Bureau RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 2:01 PMSubject: Montagne Hello Reed:I think it's great that you did an interview with Montagne. I wish he could read all of the responses to his theory's, made by the list members. Not that he'd respond, but it'd be nice for him to know that he hasn't managed to pull the wool over the eyes of the majority of the members of this list. Topics like this interview is exactly what this list needs to keep things interesting. Perhaps if more of the same were taking place, many of the guys who've left the list would have choosen to stay on, instead of moving on. Jim ----------Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Wed Jan 16 10:33:34 2002 g0GGXXW17695 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:33:33 - g0GGXOY184406 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:33:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnish Organization: Prodigy Internet I have two tubes filled all the time, one with MOW Spar, and one with P&LVarmor. Both have been stable and do not film over or congeal after morethan a year. I keep them fairly full and cap with a neoprene cap That has asteel hose clamp screwed tight. I got the cap from Home Depot. Since I warmthe varnish before dipping, I cap and seal the still-warm tube. I think thatcreates a partial vacuum in the tube and tends to lessen oxidation.Steve Here is one that does not work. The stuff that you buy at office supplystores to blow dust out of cameras and computer keyboards. I do not use bloxygen, but if I am not going to be dipping, I drip abouttwenty drops of mineral spirits on top of the varnish. Seems to keep it from drying out fairly well. Jeff from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 16 10:56:38 2002 g0GGuaW19125 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:56:36 - Subject: bamboo Here is some bamboo I saw in Jamaica. They call it Big Bamboo down there. This was some tree!Bret Subject: RE: Payne 198 It is my understanding that the earlier version of thePayne 198 taper is lighter than the later version. Thetaper I use is from an early rod and my methods ofconstruction arrive at a rod that works best with a 3or 4 wt. line. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Jan 16 12:36:50 2002 g0GIaoW24416 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:36:50 - 743.svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) 2002 12:36:50 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish I tried this with a gallon jug, baking soda and vinegar to generate the CO2. I tried to do a thorough job by overdoing everything (length of pour, etc). It did not work for me.Jon McAnulty At 08:25 PM 1/16/2002 +0800, Tony Young wrote: Would carbon dioxide do the same job? It sinks so making some and "pouring" it into the tube wouldn't be difficult. TY from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 12:55:13 2002 g0GItCW25398 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:55:12 - 16 Jan 2002 10:55:11 PST Subject: Re: Getting Started-(Harry how did the conclave go?) concerning: Let's face it, whether it's true or not, we fly fisherman areseen as snobs. (Perhaps that's rightly so, sincewe are so much better than everyone else! :-)) another man's opinion: "Hurrumph!.....Listen, young fella, i'd sooner sit onmy prat on the public dock at Lake Michigamme andplunk night crawlers for bass than ever fish a wetfly!" - The Old and the Proud - Robert Traver ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Jan 16 12:55:28 2002 g0GItSW25490 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:55:28 -0600 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:55:13 -0500 MAILINID53-0116135513; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:55:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out - a rebuttal List, What confuses me the most from the MM article is how he was able to stepon so many toes. I think that's a hard thing to do considering there's somany good folks on this list. His Uber Rod ideas could be hooey, but what ifthey aren't? Hasn't it all been done before in bamboo rodmaking anyway? Again, I just appreciate Reed's efforts to make the interview available to usall. I apologize if my comments offended anyone, Kyle In a message dated Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:18:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,Reed Curry writes: Jim,I submitted the article because I feel that Mike has some ideas of interest to the rodmaking community. Personal attacks on Mike are unwarranted...he is not an active rodmaker and derives no financial benefit from his old rods. As for him proving himself smarter than others, Mike has a healthy self-image (as do many of us) which does not require additional enhancement.What Mike has DONE is to actually put into practice some theories: writing the software to test them, then creating the machines to build the rods. Whether we like Mike's style of address, or disagree with his science, nevertheless, he has acted upon his ideas, which is more than can be said for many of us, myself foremost.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jim Bureau wrote: Hello Lee, Frank, and all I enjoyed reading your response's to Montagne. What I really think he's trying to do is to market his rods by showing Jo Blow public just how smart he is and how stupid the rest of the rodmaking fraternity is, being that we can't comprehend what it's all about. Sort of like the hacker golfer who's talked into buying a new set of pro line clubs so he will score better. Jim from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 16 13:10:35 2002 g0GJAXW26460 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:10:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out - a rebuttal It is surprising. Not even TA could stir things up that much though in his last foray I think he lost it a bit [:-)] Tony At 01:55 PM 1/16/02 -0500, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: List, What confuses me the most from the MM article is how he was able to step on so many toes. I think that's a hard thing to do considering there's so many good folks on this list. His Uber Rod ideas could be hooey, but what if they aren't? Hasn't it all been done before in bamboo rodmaking anyway? Again, I just appreciate Reed's efforts to make the interview available to us all. I apologize if my comments offended anyone, Kyle In a message dated Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:18:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, Reed Curry writes: Jim,I submitted the article because I feel that Mike has some ideas ofinterest to the rodmaking community. Personal attacks on Mike areunwarranted...he is not an active rodmaker and derives no financialbenefit from his old rods. As for him proving himself smarter thanothers, Mike has a healthy self-image (as do many of us) which does notrequire additional enhancement.What Mike has DONE is to actually put into practice some theories:writing the software to test them, then creating the machines to buildthe rods. Whether we like Mike's style of address, or disagree with hisscience, nevertheless, he has acted upon his ideas, which is more thancan be said for many of us, myself foremost.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Jim Bureau wrote: Hello Lee, Frank, and all I enjoyed reading your response's to Montagne. What I really thinkhe's trying to do is to market his rods by showing Jo Blow public justhow smart he is and how stupid the rest of the rodmaking fraternityis,being that we can't comprehend what it's all about. Sort of like thehacker golfer who's talked into buying a new set of pro line clubs sohe will score better. Jim /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from stoltz10@attbi.com Wed Jan 16 13:56:03 2002 g0GJu3W29120 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:56:03 - Subject: dickerson 8013 I posted a question about the 8013 taper yesterday, well I got bumped =off the list over night so if you responded could you please send me =your response again. Thanks, Tim I posted a question about the 8013 = could you please send me your response again. Thanks,Tim from stoltz10@attbi.com Wed Jan 16 13:58:06 2002 g0GJw5W29340 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:58:05 - Subject: wrapping ferrules How does everyone wrap their ferrules? I know there are several ways =and am curious to what everyone uses. How does everyone wrap their = uses. from hartzell@easystreet.com Wed Jan 16 14:04:46 2002 g0GK4jW29908 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:04:45 - g0GK4Xc05089; Subject: Re: Knurling with Milgrain Wheels Ted,I bought one of the milgrain wheels from Gesswein and have been using it tool holder to hit the center of the work piece. Like all knurls you need tohave the appropriate diameter on the work piece or the wheel will double andproduce a finer knurl. I prefer the fine one anyway, but it is best to do alittle experimenting. All this being said the rope design knurl would be easyto make if you have an indexer for you mill and can get a very small roundnosecutter.Ed Hartzell Ted wrote: A year or two back there was some info about using jewellers milgrainwheels to produce fine rope knurls on reel bands. Is anyone doing this? Ihave a 10" Southbend lathe and wonder how these fairly small tools wouldwork. It appears from the catalog that they are intended for worksmaller/softer than the nickel silver that we use. Any advice on milgrainwheel use and set-up for my lathe? from stoltz10@attbi.com Wed Jan 16 15:08:07 2002 g0GL86W03578 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:08:06 - Subject: splitting I'm splitting out my second rod and using the technique where you split =it using the palm of your hands, I can not believe how much easier it is =than the Garrison method, no wasted cane. I can't remember who first =posted it, but I want to thank that person. Thank you I'm splitting out my second rod and = technique where you split it using the palm of your hands, I can not = remember who first posted it, but I want to thank that =person. Thankyou from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Wed Jan 16 15:16:06 2002 g0GLG6W04127 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:16:06 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:16:10 -0700 0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:15:59 -0700 Subject: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix FILETIME=[052ABEA0:01C19ED3] g0GLG6W04128 All, I use a drip tube system which requires filling the tube prior to every coat ofmow spar. The one-gallon plastic bottle I use for storage is also used forcatching the varnish below the tube. This system works with my limitedgarage ceiling height. The problem is that with all the pouring and filling andopen space in the storage bottle, the varnish gets put in contact with a lotof fresh air. Living in Phoenix doesn't help matters. My bamboo is provablydryer than most and in the summer I can varnish wraps in a day, but keepingmy varnish in good shape is Tough. Because I've have to replace a fair bit ofit this issue is a real concern. Now... with that said, I've received a lot of good info from the list. Thank youall. I really liked the idea a few of you had about home made CO2. I havedecided however, based on my system and circumstances that it will be mosteffective to get a small bottle of nitrogen and fit it with a regulator assuggested by Troy Miller off list. Nitrogen is dry, clean, inert and safe. It'sonly slightly lighter than air and will effectively purge air with the insertion ofa tube near the bottom of the container. It's a cheap common gas used innumerous other purging processes. Several list members also expressedconcern about tediously regulating the flow from bloxygen and otherproducts. An accidental blast into the varnish with the resulting spray is notsomething I want to contend with. The regulator will eliminate this potential. The down side here is the initial investment. A filled, 25 cubic foot bottle, (about 4" X 18") with a low pressure regulator costs about $120.00. Thatequates to 10 or 11 cans of Bloxygen and that's provably enough to lastmost of us the rest of our rod making days. However, with a little help frommy friends, I've manage to scrounge up everything I need for next to nothing. I do think though, that even if I had to buy everything over the counter, forme, it's a cost effective addition to my shop. This is my own personal conclusion and may not be the best choice for many. Thanks again, JIM from earsdws@duke.edu Wed Jan 16 15:34:18 2002 g0GLYIW05435 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:34:18 - g0GLX7v10831; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: perhaps a simple way to minimize varnish issues. Jim,Instead of draining your varnish from your drip tube into an empty plasticgallon jug, why not drain it through a tube into a collapsible plastic waterbottle (that could swell on filling)? The drip tube could fill with CO2, stored inan inflated plastic bag, using the vacuum created by the varnish outflow. Byusing a couple of bags, a couple of valves and some tubing wouldn't you beable to minimize the exposure of your varnish to air for only a few bucks?Just a thought, dws. James Harris wrote: All, I use a drip tube system which requires filling the tube prior to every coatof mow spar. The one-gallon plastic bottle I use for storage is also used forcatching the varnish below the tube. This system works with my limitedgarage ceiling height. The problem is that with all the pouring and filling andopen space in the storage bottle, the varnish gets put in contact with a lotof fresh air. Living in Phoenix doesn't help matters. My bamboo is provablydryer than most and in the summer I can varnish wraps in a day, but keepingmy varnish in good shape is Tough. Because I've have to replace a fair bit ofit this issue is a real concern. Now... with that said, I've received a lot of good info from the list. Thankyou all. I really liked the idea a few of you had about home made CO2. I havedecided however, based on my system and circumstances that it will be mosteffective to get a small bottle of nitrogen and fit it with a regulator assuggested by Troy Miller off list. Nitrogen is dry, clean, inert and safe. It'sonly slightly lighter than air and will effectively purge air with the insertion ofa tube near the bottom of the container. It's a cheap common gas used innumerous other purging processes. Several list members also expressedconcern about tediously regulating the flow from bloxygen and otherproducts. An accidental blast into the varnish with the resulting spray is notsomething I want to contend with. The regulator will eliminate this potential. The down side here is the initial investment. A filled, 25 cubic foot bottle,( about 4" X 18") with a low pressure regulator costs about $120.00. Thatequates to 10 or 11 cans of Bloxygen and that's provably enough to lastmost of us the rest of our rod making days. However, with a little help frommy friends, I've manage to scrounge up everything I need for next to nothing. I do think though, that even if I had to buy everything over the counter, forme, it's a cost effective addition to my shop. This is my own personal conclusion and may not be the best choice formany. Thanks again, JIM from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Wed Jan 16 15:45:36 2002 g0GLjaW06093 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:45:36 -0600 ,"Tony Young" Subject: Re: Montagne All, I was one to jump in, and I guess we did get a little over board, but we areentitled to our opinions. Afterall, he did dis parabolics....as far as Ican tell, he had it comin'. I've seen Garrison take a few shots here andthere. I guess that puts MM in good company. I must apologize to Reed, it was rude.... I hope that it does not discouragefuture articles. (I'm sure it won't) tom ----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Montagne I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with MikeandReed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what I wastowrite.There are some things about the comments on the list I've found a littlehard to understand. I truly don't understand why all the flack and mention of baffling withbull shit. It's beyond me to follow the math however I can see thedirection he wanted to head and the math was developed to try to achieveit. Maybe there is no easy way to explain it, possibly Mike doesn't care if anybody understands it anyhow?It's even harder to understand this behavior when you consider Mike didn'tactually come on list to tell us all this in the same way TA graces usoccasionally, Reed did an interview with him and published it on Reed'spersonal home page which we were invited to read. Mike is no threat andonly told Reed what he was asked.Healthy debate is fine but to just discount it entirely out of hand is abit intolerant of other's ideas as well as a bit rude to Reed IMHO whoagain IMHO did us a service with this interview and publication. You can develop a rod through trial and error or you can try to definethings you want to have at the end and design it that way. from the way I read it he is absolutely right in assuming any alteration at any point on the rod will affect every other point so the rod needs tobe designed with this in mind. The Garrison math doesn't even touch onthis, so a combination of Garrison plus rocket science is what is requiredor don't all the people wanting to develop rods with Hex Rod wantimprovements in the technique? Hex Rod can't develop rod tapers, it canonly indicate stress in a local area and is completely independent of therod as a whole. You use it as a guide. It's a classic Edison/Tesla scenario. Edison and his crew knocked theirheads against the wall making stuff in a trial and error way to patentwhile Tesla designed it first and more or less knew what the outcome was to be when it was made.I know everybody loves Edison and consider Tesla a crank but is that fair?I know Tesla was possibly a charlatan in some respects but he alsodeveloped the 60 cycle AC electrical system we all use as well as someamazing motors and turbines and who knows what else? Mike was coming from a different direction of rod development thaneverybody else took. His math was/is advanced to what Garrison had orthought of using considering all he (Garrison) had to work with was a slide rule and paper. Yes you can design anything with a slide rule and paperincluding sending men to the moon and returning them safely to the Earthagain but is rod design worth the hassle?Mike armed with a computer, even a toy like the apple allowed much betterand accurate calculations to be possible once the code was cut.The interesting thing here is if it *can* make Mike's perfect rod it couldmake yours too.The program doesn't need all the complications of force of cast and armmovement because there would have to be a standard based on (possiblyGarrison's math) used and rod development could then simply depend onwhatthe makers defined as required.Want to make a WC 7' #4 with a swollen butt but like the over all action of the original? Sure, swell the butt to these dimensions and adjust allothers to these kind of thing. If Mike thinks his shit doesn't stink does that affect the outcome of hiswork? People who feel capable of great things are usually the ones who doin fact achieve great things. Even the quieter ones. Mike just happens tofeel we all want to know what a genius he is (or may be). So what? I haven't a clue as to if Mike is having himself on or not and I'll admit I could be defending a person who hasn't a clue but if every time somebodysurfaces with a different way of doing something and all he gets is rottenfruit thrown at him we'll continue to see the same crop of rods made thesame way for the next 100 years. That's fine if all everybody wants istraditional looking rods of traditional designs but there's more to it than that as we'll all see if the Chinese ever get their act together becausethere will be NO difference between anybody's rods in reality apart fromfinish and that wont not be a problem for the Chinese either in the long run. If you doubt that ask anybody in the shoe, textiles, backpacking, machinery games.If you feel the guy's a loud mouth that's fine but his work may be great.I do have to admit I had a deep question in my mind about his voracity when I read there were three chunks of code and it was all more or less lost due to a combination of old hardware and software requirements until Reedtoldme it was written in BASIC, on an apple. That is a problem. I say 10 points to Mike. Like Reed wrote, he came up with original ideas,tested them, developed them, made the gear to make rods and as far as Icould tell made decent rods for what he was after. I've read more than Ishould based on commonly accepted ideas, messed about lots more than Ishould following these ideas and trying to improve and still fall way farshort of what I'm after. I for one would enjoy reading anything else Reed cares to trouble himselfwith and would like to publicly thank Reed for bothering. TY At 10:04 AM 1/16/02 -0500, Jill and Tom Ausfeld wrote: Jim,Perhaps some have left the list because they couldn't pull the wool overour eyes. tom ----- Original Message -----From: Jim Bureau RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 2:01 PMSubject: Montagne Hello Reed:I think it's great that you did an interview with Montagne. I wish hecould read all of the responses to his theory's, made by the listmembers. Not that he'd respond, but it'd be nice for him to know that he hasn't managed to pull the wool over the eyes of the majority of themembers of this list. Topics like this interview is exactly what thislist needs to keep things interesting. Perhaps if more of the same weretaking place, many of the guys who've left the list would have choosento stay on, instead of moving on. Jim ----------Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:Click Here /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 16 16:12:20 2002 g0GMCJW07451 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:12:19 - (authenticated) for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:13:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Boxelder Burl Friends, Due to a nice response, I'm out of the wood swapping business. I'vegot one package left to send, and have sent about a dozen already.Thanks for your interest. Harry I wrote: I've got an idea -- I've got literally hundreds of turningsquares ready to be made into reel seats, far more than I willever possibly use. Although I'll try to sell a few at upcomingshows, most will wind up in a corner of the workshop. Is anyoneinterested in swapping some insert blanks? -- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 16 16:16:44 2002 g0GMGhW07781 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:16:43 - (authenticated) for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:18:19 -0800 Subject: New idea Folks, Talking with a fellow from Tennessee about soakingbamboo before straightening at the Guild Conclave led him toan idea. He called yesterday and asked, "What if you boilthe bamboo for a while? Could you then straighten it assoon as it came out of the water?" I don't know the answer. Anyone ever tried this? Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 16 16:39:28 2002 g0GMdRW08943 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:39:27 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:40:46 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: New idea Harry,I believe it was Bernard Elsner?? in one of the Planing Formnewsletters that uses a technique similar to this. If I remember right,he lays the a piece of saran wrap down then boils a wet towel in themicrowave, then lays it out on the saran wrap,lays six strips (6 nodeslined up) on the towel, then wraps the towel and saran wrap over thetop, sort of like a towel / node sandwich, lets it stew awhile thenpulls out a strip at a time to work on each node. Apparently the steamevaporates almost immediately after flattening.I have been meaning to try this technique as it seems to be lessdamaging to the strips, (especially on blonde rods). Seems like it wouldwork to me?? Shawn Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Talking with a fellow from Tennessee about soakingbamboo before straightening at the Guild Conclave led him toan idea. He called yesterday and asked, "What if you boilthe bamboo for a while? Could you then straighten it assoon as it came out of the water?" I don't know the answer. Anyone ever tried this? Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Jan 16 16:42:29 2002 g0GMgTW09231 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:42:29 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:34:05 -0500 "rod" Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Bill:Thank you for bringing all that to my attention.Lee----- Original Message - ---- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Lee, I am not an engineer, and my last course in mathematics was intermediatealgebra in high school (in which I got a "D"). But I think I know this: One CAN use mathematical formulae, computer technology, and variousprinciples of physics to design a rod for a particular line and castingdistance. These factors can be calculated and controlled, and the desiredrod's optimum dimensions can be determined. We (although not I) can do this because the factors involved in the computations can all be taken as aseries of "givens," and because we (not me) know how to consider the dynamic effects that a line will produce upon the rod we are "after." But have we noticed in all this mathematical modeling, that only the rodbeing designed and the accompanying, dynamic leverages placed upon it (byferrule, guides, line-of-a-certain-length, leader and fly) are beingconsidered? It's as if a fly rod were only a cantilevered beam, responding to leverages of various sorts from one fixed end, outward. But the otherend (in your hand) is known NOT to be fixed. Still, mathematically modeled rods are designed as if it were. The reason for this is simple: WE DON'TKNOW HOW TO CONSIDER THE LEVERAGE IMPARTED BY A CASTER! And so,we don't. But a fly rod is neither a beam nor a lever: it is both. And it is bothwith a difference. That is, the leverage imparted to a fly rod is delivered at BOTH ends, and (to muddy the waters still more) this occurs both inunequal proportions and in non-synchronous sequences. A rod's physicalcharacteristics can be known, as can the lever effects acting upon it by the line at any given distance. What cannot be known is how a given caster will (nearly) simultaneously impart leverage of a different sort to the OTHER end of this rod. Nor can a casting machine be built to replicate what humans do. Obviously,this is simply because we all cast differently, and these differences,across a range of fishermen, are by no means subtle. There are dozens ofmuscles and nearly as many joints involved in a simple cast, and all theseare articulated in each of us with an idiocyncratic sense of timing, rhythm and relative speed. The resulting leverage that begins any given castdelivers energy into the rod, and it responds--but not in a way that anystress curve could predict or control for. Stress curves can only control So, in the end, it's always back to the tinkering and tweaking as we search to build the rod that suits us best. All the math, physics and computerwizardry in the world can only get us started, because we still don't knowhow to model what we do when we hold that rod in our hand and set it intomotion. Garrison got us started, but none of the mathematical modeling that followed has produced "better" rods--only different ones. So too, MichaelMontagne. Shit, even a "D" in high school algebra and a few years of hangin' outtaught me THAT much! Sometimes I think we get too smart for ourbritches. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Koeser" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:51 PMSubject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I am an engineer and as such can understand Garrison's approach to roddesign, especially as it applies to developing other rods based upon theproperties of a cantilever beam. Considering the manual effort required to make the calculations, we need to applaud his efforts. Simplistic, buthardly crude. Montagne, imposing the concepts of ballistics, bendform and other new terminology, not familiar to my engineering background has made the design of a rod equivalent to launching a spacecraft to Mars. from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Jan 16 16:44:52 2002 g0GMioW09485 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:44:50 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:36:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Bill:Is it alright if I don't read it a second time?Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out Lee, I am not an engineer, and my last course in mathematics was intermediatealgebra in high school (in which I got a "D"). But I think I know this: One CAN use mathematical formulae, computer technology, and variousprinciples of physics to design a rod for a particular line and castingdistance. These factors can be calculated and controlled, and the desiredrod's optimum dimensions can be determined. We (although not I) can do this because the factors involved in the computations can all be taken as aseries of "givens," and because we (not me) know how to consider the dynamic effects that a line will produce upon the rod we are "after." But have we noticed in all this mathematical modeling, that only the rodbeing designed and the accompanying, dynamic leverages placed upon it (byferrule, guides, line-of-a-certain-length, leader and fly) are beingconsidered? It's as if a fly rod were only a cantilevered beam, responding to leverages of various sorts from one fixed end, outward. But the otherend (in your hand) is known NOT to be fixed. Still, mathematically modeled rods are designed as if it were. The reason for this is simple: WE DON'TKNOW HOW TO CONSIDER THE LEVERAGE IMPARTED BY A CASTER! And so,we don't. But a fly rod is neither a beam nor a lever: it is both. And it is bothwith a difference. That is, the leverage imparted to a fly rod is delivered at BOTH ends, and (to muddy the waters still more) this occurs both inunequal proportions and in non-synchronous sequences. A rod's physicalcharacteristics can be known, as can the lever effects acting upon it by the line at any given distance. What cannot be known is how a given caster will (nearly) simultaneously impart leverage of a different sort to the OTHER end of this rod. Nor can a casting machine be built to replicate what humans do. Obviously,this is simply because we all cast differently, and these differences,across a range of fishermen, are by no means subtle. There are dozens ofmuscles and nearly as many joints involved in a simple cast, and all theseare articulated in each of us with an idiocyncratic sense of timing, rhythm and relative speed. The resulting leverage that begins any given castdelivers energy into the rod, and it responds--but not in a way that anystress curve could predict or control for. Stress curves can only control So, in the end, it's always back to the tinkering and tweaking as we search to build the rod that suits us best. All the math, physics and computerwizardry in the world can only get us started, because we still don't knowhow to model what we do when we hold that rod in our hand and set it intomotion. Garrison got us started, but none of the mathematical modeling that followed has produced "better" rods--only different ones. So too, MichaelMontagne. Shit, even a "D" in high school algebra and a few years of hangin' outtaught me THAT much! Sometimes I think we get too smart for ourbritches. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Lee Koeser" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:51 PMSubject: Re: Mike Montagne speaks out I am an engineer and as such can understand Garrison's approach to roddesign, especially as it applies to developing other rods based upon theproperties of a cantilever beam. Considering the manual effort required to make the calculations, we need to applaud his efforts. Simplistic, buthardly crude. Montagne, imposing the concepts of ballistics, bendform and other new terminology, not familiar to my engineering background has made the design of a rod equivalent to launching a spacecraft to Mars. from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan 16 16:54:07 2002 g0GMs6W10285 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:54:06 - g0GMs3N29147; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:54:03 -0600 Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix Jim,When I was storing the varnish in a plastic container I had a lot of problemswith the varnish jelling. I was told that plastic breaths. Since I starteddraining back in the original can and add a little bit if thinner on top of thevarnish before closing the can, it more than tripled the life of the varnishover keeping it in a plastic jug. The plastic jug may be a big part of theproblem.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Harris wrote: All, I use a drip tube system which requires filling the tube prior to every coatof mow spar. The one-gallon plastic bottle I use for storage is also used forcatching the varnish below the tube. This system works with my limitedgarage ceiling height. The problem is that with all the pouring and filling andopen space in the storage bottle, the varnish gets put in contact with a lotof fresh air. Living in Phoenix doesn't help matters. My bamboo is provablydryer than most and in the summer I can varnish wraps in a day, but keepingmy varnish in good shape is Tough. Because I've have to replace a fair bit ofit this issue is a real concern. Now... with that said, I've received a lot of good info from the list. Thankyou all. I really liked the idea a few of you had about home made CO2. I havedecided however, based on my system and circumstances that it will be mosteffective to get a small bottle of nitrogen and fit it with a regulator assuggested by Troy Miller off list. Nitrogen is dry, clean, inert and safe. It'sonly slightly lighter than air and will effectively purge air with the insertion ofa tube near the bottom of the container. It's a cheap common gas used innumerous other purging processes. Several list members also expressedconcern about tediously regulating the flow from bloxygen and otherproducts. An accidental blast into the varnish with the resulting spray is notsomething I want to contend with. The regulator will eliminate this potential. The down side here is the initial investment. A filled, 25 cubic foot bottle,( about 4" X 18") with a low pressure regulator costs about $120.00. Thatequates to 10 or 11 cans of Bloxygen and that's provably enough to lastmost of us the rest of our rod making days. However, with a little help frommy friends, I've manage to scrounge up everything I need for next to nothing. I do think though, that even if I had to buy everything over the counter, forme, it's a cost effective addition to my shop. This is my own personal conclusion and may not be the best choice formany. Thanks again, JIM from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Jan 16 16:56:06 2002 g0GMu5W10487 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:56:05 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:57:24 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix James,my answer to this may sound stupid but it works for me. I dip myrods in my bathroom (no jokes please), I have a second one so it's not aproblem. I take everything (except the blank) in I run the hot shower for acouple minutes (the steam holds down any dust) left after the thoroughcleaning I give the bathroom ,dip tube and heated drying cabinet. I have asheep wool glove that I rub the plexiglass on my drying cabinet with to build astatic charge with to attract any left over dust to the outside of the door.When all that is done I bring in the cleaned rod sections and dip them then putthem immediately into my drying cabinet. Not the most scientific methodbut,Works well for me,Shawn P.S. James, Not to sound like one of those whiny list server curmudgeons ;^)but.... you and a couple other guys have your e mail preferences set up withno text wrap so your messages just keep scrolling across the page for miles.Not to complain, just wasn't sure you and others were aware. James Harris wrote: All, I use a drip tube system which requires filling the tube prior to every coatof mow spar. The one-gallon plastic bottle I use for storage is also used forcatching the varnish below the tube. This system works with my limitedgarage ceiling height. The problem is that with all the pouring and filling andopen space in the storage bottle, the varnish gets put in contact with a lotof fresh air. Living in Phoenix doesn't help matters. My bamboo is provablydryer than most and in the summer I can varnish wraps in a day, but keepingmy varnish in good shape is Tough. Because I've have to replace a fair bit ofit this issue is a real concern. Now... with that said, I've received a lot of good info from the list. Thankyou all. I really liked the idea a few of you had about home made CO2. I havedecided however, based on my system and circumstances that it will be mosteffective to get a small bottle of nitrogen and fit it with a regulator assuggested by Troy Miller off list. Nitrogen is dry, clean, inert and safe. It'sonly slightly lighter than air and will effectively purge air with the insertion ofa tube near the bottom of the container. It's a cheap common gas used innumerous other purging processes. Several list members also expressedconcern about tediously regulating the flow from bloxygen and otherproducts. An accidental blast into the varnish with the resulting spray is notsomething I want to contend with. The regulator will eliminate this potential. The down side here is the initial investment. A filled, 25 cubic foot bottle,( about 4" X 18") with a low pressure regulator costs about $120.00. Thatequates to 10 or 11 cans of Bloxygen and that's provably enough to lastmost of us the rest of our rod making days. However, with a little help frommy friends, I've manage to scrounge up everything I need for next to nothing. I do think though, that even if I had to buy everything over the counter, forme, it's a cost effective addition to my shop. This is my own personal conclusion and may not be the best choice formany. Thanks again, JIM from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Jan 16 16:56:32 2002 g0GMuWW10537 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:56:32 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:48:10 -0500 "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" The flats are in the plane of the cast. Apexes are perpendicular withsubsequent more resistance to bending, thereby, focusing more force to thecast plane. Not unlike what Montagne is doing with his unsymmetricalquadrates.Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: "The Perfect Rod" Just some thoughts. It seems that at least part of what drives the quest for the perfect rodtaper is the desire to extend the material properties of the cane(particularly stiffness) by altering the geometry of the rod (which should minimize the weight gain compared to the increase in stiffness). If thisperfect geometry were used then the stiffness might be more easilyvariedwithout appreciable increases in thickness or weight of the blank. Itseems like the rectangular shape is shooting for this by increasing thethickness and hence stiffness in the plane of the cast and pairing it offwhere it counts less (perpendicular to the plane of the cast). It seemslike you could also experiment with this type of variance with a hexshaped rod, not just a square one. If you make the two splines on eachside larger and then cut off the inner apex this would then let theoutside edges sit closer together so that the subsquent four smallersplines match up to the outside edges and you would get an elongatedhex.Since I think you would want the long cross sectional axis to be in thecasting plane this would put a corner straight up and down. I would guessyou would have to flatten one of these corners enough to have a surface to mount the guide feet on. This design would put the powerfibers that mostcome into tension and compression the furthest from the center axis andtherefore have a greater effect than they would in a symmetric hex with an increase in stiffness. Is this just crazy?cheers.Jon McAnulty I hope this description is intelligible. from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Jan 16 16:57:57 2002 g0GMvuW10749 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:57:56 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:49:25 -0500 Subject: Re: burnisher I did.Lee Subject: RE: burnisher Being a new builder (asking only 1 question last year) I had to wait = had built the same "special burnisher" I did. I built mine very = selected piece ( from many choices) of scrap bamboo strip....blond, =about 6" long. Not really an engineering feat, compared to what some = works, and I like it because I can trim/tune it up as needed. I =shaved one end to point and tapered it slightly ( from the pith side) so =that I'm using "power fibers" to pack the thread. I use the back =(enamel still on) to burnish with other end. Can't beat the price which = I did.Lee ----- Original Message ----- Soignier54@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002= PMSubject: RE: burnisherList, = builder (asking only 1 question last year) I had to wait to see if = carefully from a hand selected piece ( from many choices) of scrap = to what some are doing out there, but it works, and I like it = slightly ( from the pith side) so that I'm using "power fibers" to pack = from aport@si.rr.com Wed Jan 16 17:02:13 2002 g0GN2CW11320 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:02:12 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:02:09 -0500 Subject: Re: perhaps a simple way to minimize varnish issues. All,You may not be aware that there are accordion-like opaque brown bottlesmade for darkroom use which would do exactly what dws is suggesting. Theycome in qts, half gals and gals.Art from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Wed Jan 16 17:02:56 2002 g0GN2sW11456 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:02:55 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:02:59 -0700 0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:02:47 -0700 Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix FILETIME=[F116AD70:01C19EE1] g0GN2tW11459 Wow, If that's correct it's most certainly a big part of the equation! I will change itregardless.Thanks,JIM Tony Spezio 01/16/02 03:51PM >>> Jim,When I was storing the varnish in a plastic container I had a lot of problemswith the varnish jelling. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 16 17:05:20 2002 g0GN5IW11862 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:05:19 - (authenticated) for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:06:55 -0800 Subject: C&R reel seat pinning One more question, Any of you that do NOT pin your reel seat capsfind that you have trouble with them workingloose? Here lately I've had two or three comeoff. Fit was good. Glue joint was tight as atick, etc. Think I'll pin them all from now on. Justwish I had done so before bluing them. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan 16 17:25:36 2002 g0GNPZW13258 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:25:35 - g0GNPYN02851 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:25:34 -0600 Subject: Re: New idea Harry,This is not boiling but I find if I soak four days or more I canstraighten the strips without any heat at all. I just use heaton the nodes. After rough bevelingthe strips are bound, pith side out, rolled straight and driedin the oven. I get straight strips every time.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Talking with a fellow from Tennessee about soakingbamboo before straightening at the Guild Conclave led him toan idea. He called yesterday and asked, "What if you boilthe bamboo for a while? Could you then straighten it assoon as it came out of the water?" I don't know the answer. Anyone ever tried this? Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 16 17:48:30 2002 g0GNmUW14211 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:48:30 -0600 helo=default) id 16Qzn6-0002Lx-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:48:25 -0500 Subject: Re: New idea I don't think boiling would give a sufficient amount of heat to adequatelydo the job, not to mention that the entire strip would be cooling as thenodes were being worked, etc. M-D Folks, Talking with a fellow from Tennessee about soakingbamboo before straightening at the Guild Conclave led him toan idea. He called yesterday and asked, "What if you boilthe bamboo for a while? Could you then straighten it assoon as it came out of the water?" I don't know the answer. Anyone ever tried this? Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Jan 16 17:50:41 2002 g0GNoeW14419 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:50:40 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:42:13 -0500 Subject: Re: C&R reel seat pinning I was having a failure rate of 15%. So I pin the cap.Lee----- Original Message - ---- Subject: C&R reel seat pinning One more question, Any of you that do NOT pin your reel seat capsfind that you have trouble with them workingloose? Here lately I've had two or three comeoff. Fit was good. Glue joint was tight as atick, etc. Think I'll pin them all from now on. Justwish I had done so before bluing them. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bob@downandacross.com Wed Jan 16 18:01:53 2002 g0H01qW15112 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:01:52 - Subject: RE: C&R reel seat pinning Harry:Snet out a donation rod to the Cumberland Valley TU on Sunday. Thepresidentloved the rod, but the butt cap feel off when he removed it from the bag. Ialmost died of embarrassment. I had used FERRULITE.Usually I use 5 minute epoxy. Haven't had any problems other than this. Imust say that glueing up reelseat components is my least favorite part ofrodbuilding. I really get unnerved when using glue around $40 pieces of woodand metal with fine knurling.I know another who has asked the question about pinning and got berated bysomeone on the list who said the need for pinning a butt cap was absurd. Ifit was absurd, he would not have asked.BTW, on Bret's advice I got a quart of Golfsmith shaft epoxy to try onferrules. I might try that next time on the butt cap as well.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: C&R reel seat pinning One more question, Any of you that do NOT pin your reel seat capsfind that you have trouble with them workingloose? Here lately I've had two or three comeoff. Fit was good. Glue joint was tight as atick, etc. Think I'll pin them all from now on. Justwish I had done so before bluing them. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Jan 16 18:01:57 2002 g0H01uW15118 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:01:56 -0600 Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:01:43 -0800 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: New idea FILETIME=[25A96980:01C19EEA] manently straighten it but I have not tried it....212 just doesn't seem l=ike it would be hot enough to me. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New idea I don't think boiling would give a sufficient amount of heat to adequatel=ydo the job, not to mention that the entire strip would be cooling as thenodes were being worked, etc. M-D Folks, Talking with a fellow from Tennessee about soakingbamboo before straightening at the Guild Conclave led him toan idea. He called yesterday and asked, "What if you boilthe bamboo for a while? Could you then straighten it assoon as it came out of the water?" I don't know the answer. Anyone ever tried this? Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church $.02, I=don't think boiling would get the lignin hot enough to permanently strai=ghten it but I have not tried it....212 just doesn't seem like i= DeLancie=r Sent: Wednesday,January 1= Rodmaker=s discussion group Subject:= fficient amount of heat to adequatelydo the job, not to mention that =the entire strip would be cooling as thenodes were being worked, etc.=M-DFrom: "Harry Boyd" with a= = Any=one ever tried http://www.= from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Jan 16 18:06:04 2002 g0H063W15586 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:06:03 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:05:57 -0800 Subject: Re: New idea FILETIME=[BD5191E0:01C19EEA] Tony,You are damn creative. What temp. to dry out? Also how is the new knee =doing? What was replaced- the left knee, the right knee or the weenee?Seriously, are you very mobile yet? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New idea Harry,This is not boiling but I find if I soak four days or more I canstraighten the strips without any heat at all. I just use heaton the nodes. After rough bevelingthe strips are bound, pith side out, rolled straight and driedin the oven. I get straight strips every time.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Talking with a fellow from Tennessee about soakingbamboo before straightening at the Guild Conclave led him toan idea. He called yesterday and asked, "What if you boilthe bamboo for a while? Could you then straighten it assoon as it came out of the water?" I don't know the answer. Anyone ever tried this? Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church = e or the weenee? Seriously, are you very mobile yet? =- Original Message ----- From: Tony Spezio Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:29 PM I canstraighten the strips without any heat at all. I just use heaton the nodes. After rough bevelingthe strips are bound, pith side o=ut, rolled straight and driedin the oven. I get straight strips every= FlyTyr@southshore.comHarry B= str= answer= Church from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Jan 16 18:10:14 2002 g0H0AEW16018 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:10:14 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:10:08 -0800 Subject: Alan Medved FILETIME=[52F49B70:01C19EEB] To all,Alan Medved underwent back surgery this morning. Let's put him in our pr=ayers for relief from the pain he has endured so many years. I'll try to= John Toall, = him=in our prayers for relief from the pain he has endured so many years.&nb= from rmoon@ida.net Wed Jan 16 18:17:52 2002 g0H0HpW16644 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:17:51 - Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix Shawn Pineo wrote: Shawn: I too had to go for miles, but I corrected it on my own computer bygoing to preferences- mail and news groups -messages- and clicking on textwrap. Ralph Still James could have done it too. P.S. James, Not to sound like one of those whiny list server curmudgeons;^) but.... you and a couple other guys have your e mail preferences set upwith no text wrap so your messages just keep scrolling across the page formiles.Not to complain, just wasn't sure you and others were aware. from cathcreek@hotmail.com Wed Jan 16 18:19:23 2002 g0H0JNW16839 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:19:23 - Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:19:17 -0800 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:19:17 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: C&R reel seat pinning FILETIME=[99EF6CC0:01C19EEC] Everytime I have used 5 minute epoxy for the but cap, it has eventually come off. Have never had one come off with the longer setting epoxy. Rob From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: C&R reel seat pinningDate: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:34:45 -0500 Harry:Snet out a donation rod to the Cumberland Valley TU on Sunday. The presidentloved the rod, but the butt cap feel off when he removed it from the bag. Ialmost died of embarrassment. I had used FERRULITE.Usually I use 5 minute epoxy. Haven't had any problems other than this. Imust say that glueing up reelseat components is my least favorite part ofrodbuilding. I really get unnerved when using glue around $40 pieces of woodand metal with fine knurling.I know another who has asked the question about pinning and got berated bysomeone on the list who said the need for pinning a butt cap was absurd. Ifit was absurd, he would not have asked.BTW, on Bret's advice I got a quart of Golfsmith shaft epoxy to try onferrules. I might try that next time on the butt cap as well.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:05 PM Subject: C&R reel seat pinning One more question, Any of you that do NOT pin your reel seat capsfind that you have trouble with them workingloose? Here lately I've had two or three comeoff. Fit was good. Glue joint was tight as atick, etc. Think I'll pin them all from now on. Justwish I had done so before bluing them. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 16 18:19:54 2002 g0H0JqW16962 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:19:52 -0600 helo=default) id 16R0HU-0005jh-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:19:48 -0500 Subject: Re: C&R reel seat pinning I've not had any problems with caps coming loose. I use Rod Bond, degreasethe inside of the caps and the reel seat insert, scuff each with an UltraFine Scotch Brite pad, blow out the dust, apply adhesive to each part, putit together, giving a twist, and applying sufficient force to exude anyexcess adhesive, and let it dry overnight. M-D One more question, Any of you that do NOT pin your reel seat capsfind that you have trouble with them workingloose? Here lately I've had two or three comeoff. Fit was good. Glue joint was tight as atick, etc. Think I'll pin them all from now on. Justwish I had done so before bluing them. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from beadman@mac.com Wed Jan 16 19:09:11 2002 g0H19BW18741 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:09:11 - Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix At 2:15 PM -0700 , 1/16/02, James Harris wrote about The Varnish That Ate Phoenix Now... with that said, I've received a lot of good info from the list. Thank you all. I really liked the idea a few of you had about home made CO2. I have decided however, based on my system and circumstances that it will be most effective to get a small bottle of nitrogen and fit it with a regulator as suggested by Troy Miller off list. Nitrogen is dry, clean, inert and safe. It's only slightly lighter than air and will effectively purge air with the insertion of a tube near the bottom of the container. It's a cheap common gas used in numerous other purging processes. Several list members also expressed concern about tediously regulating the flow from bloxygen and other products. An accidental blast into the varnish with the resulting spray is not something I want to contend with. The regulator will eliminate this potential. In addition to use nitrogen, as James suggests, I use bottled CO2 in my home brewing. The two most common types are the gas container and regulator that James has described - and you can also get a smaller sized one that uses the pellet gun sized CO2 bottles. I think these are used to pressurize growlers and so forth. Same thing you see in old movies for creating/dispensing soda water.Take a look in the yellow pages for homebrewing supplies... Claude from channer@frontier.net Wed Jan 16 19:10:22 2002 g0H1AMW18897 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:10:22 -0600 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:10:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Montagne Tony;Thank You!!!!!!Why do other people say what I want to say so much betterthan I could. I've written and deleted about 8 repy's to this thread, Ialso see no reason to trash the guy, especially when only ONE person onthis list really has the faintest idea whether the rods work or not.Walk a mile in his shoes first fellas.john Tony Young wrote: I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with MikeandReed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what I wastowrite. from channer@frontier.net Wed Jan 16 19:31:35 2002 g0H1VZW19652 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:31:35 - Subject: Re: C&R reel seat pinning Accragls gel, it'll be there forever, unless you take a heat gun or atorch to it.john Harry Boyd wrote: One more question, Any of you that do NOT pin your reel seat capsfind that you have trouble with them workingloose? Here lately I've had two or three comeoff. Fit was good. Glue joint was tight as atick, etc. Think I'll pin them all from now on. Justwish I had done so before bluing them. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jan 16 19:57:54 2002 g0H1vrW20480 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:57:53 - Subject: Re: C&R reel seat pinning Harry,I use Brownell's two part epoxy and have never had a capcome off. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jan 16 20:02:22 2002 g0H22LW20719 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:02:21 - Subject: Re: Alan Medved In a message dated 01/16/2002 7:11:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, JNL123141@msn.com writes: I hope Alan will be fine. He and his wife (and there two dogs)came to my home for a visit, a couple of years ago. My wife and Ispent the day with them and they are the nicest people. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Wed Jan 16 20:12:20 2002 g0H2CJW21178 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:12:19 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:59:06 -0600 Subject: RE: Montagne, a little long OK y'all, I've bitten my tongue as long as I can. I've read with greatinterest what engineers and normal people on the list think about Reed'sinterview with Michael. I look at the pictures and think Lordy, whatgrotesque, and yet beautiful rods Mike made. And I don't doubt that theycast as wonderfully as the much respected users have reported. Butthroughall the complex mathematics and confusing, non-standard techspeak, I havetobelieve that Mike was as much lucky to come upon great tapers as everyoneelse. His founding theory, the linear acceleration postulate, is flawed from the start. I will spare you the details, but please believe me when Itell you that I am consumed by casting flyrods. For the last 16 years, Ihave been writing (on and off) a book on the physics of flycasting. I'm notdone yet. When I lived in Alaska, oh, about 8 or so years ago, I devised a plan tofigure out what was happening with the inertia of line and rod, and the flexcharacteristics of different types of rods in use. How things changed asloads varied. That sort of earth-shattering stuff. And I will give you thenutshell. This is not conjecture, it is what I determined from some crude,yet controlled experiments. I took my high-dollar fast shutter video camera(the kind you can buy for about 500 bucks these days!) and recorded anhouror so of myself casting several different rods. Some with DT, some with WF.Some with a line four weights too heavy on it (an 8 on a 4!). I took thisfootage and ran it through a projector at the office, onto a flip chart, towhere I could trace the shape of the rod, frame by frame. Then I comparedthese frames by overlaying them on a light table. What do you supposehappened? The rod starts out straight, as we know, then bends more andmoredeeply into the rod. Please don't stone me, but these were all progressivecarbon rods. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the stroke, the rod did not continue toincrease in flexure. It continued moving forward toward the stop, and itcontinued to rotate through the fulcrum of my wrist or elbow, depending onwhether I was stiff-wristing or not. But the rod flexure was a carbon copythe last portion of the stroke, right up until the stop. This would be theMOGB, as Mike points out. So up until this time, I'm pretty excited aboutwhat I'm reading in Reed's interview. Now the trouble. Mike says that therecoil phase adds little or nothing to the energy in the system, because youhave to stop accelerating the rod to effect the recoil. Now where does hededuce this from? He would be right, if the unloading of the tip wereslower than I am able to stroke the rod. But that is not what I saw. Thefastest movement of the rod tip is right at the bitter end, when the flexedrod returns to its straight (neutral) condition. I will grant him, the tipdoes slow down once it overshoots the straight line position, because nowthe rod is doing work to flex the rod in the forward direction. Why is this important? Does this mean that his computer model is wrong? Iwould propose that, while he may be considering more dynamics in his modelthan Garrison, it does not immediately follow that the model is moreeffective regarding the ability to design a perfect taper first cast out ofthe drying cabinet. I do not buy the idea of a single "divine" bendform.This would force all casters to assume very similar strokes, which is askingtoo much. What are you going to do, tell a customer, "Sure, I'll make you acustom rod. But I'll also have to teach you how to cast it, which will runyou another 2 grand...."? Hey, maybe I CAN quit my day job..... : ) Reed, please don't take any of these replies personal. I very muchappreciate all you offer to this list, and I love your website. I go thereseveral times a week to poke around and see if I've missed anything. Juston this one topic, I have studied it in earnest (as has Mr. Montagne), andwanted to offer what I sincerely believe to be true about the dynamics ofcaster/rod/line. Sorry for being so long-winded.... TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Montagne Tony;Thank You!!!!!!Why do other people say what I want to say so much betterthan I could. I've written and deleted about 8 repy's to this thread, Ialso see no reason to trash the guy, especially when only ONE person onthis list really has the faintest idea whether the rods work or not.Walk a mile in his shoes first fellas.john Tony Young wrote: I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with MikeandReed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what I wastowrite. from jojo@ipa.net Wed Jan 16 20:46:56 2002 g0H2ktW22324 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:46:55 -0600 helo=default) id 16R2Zm-00084b-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:46:51 -0500 Subject: Rod Length Question Okay, since hardly anyone has an opinion on this List, I was wondering if wemight develop a consensus, and have a discussion on rod length. I am workingon a rod for an upcoming saltwater trip. It is to be a 9 wt., and hollowbuilt. Primary fishing duty will be for redfish and speckled sea trout.Right now I have it laid out as an 8'9" rod, 2 piece. I prefer shorter rods,though, especially in the 7'6" range. The only benefit I see to a longer rodis the ability to mend at greater length. So, what do you guys think? Andplease, don't all give me the same answer. }B^)> M-D from flyfish@gbronline.com Wed Jan 16 21:04:27 2002 g0H34QW23047 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:04:26 - Subject: not rodbuilding, but tying to the list--I'm doing a fly tying demo for my son's scout troop next week, and I'mlooking for an illustrated set of instructions for tying a woolybugger. That way the scouts have something to take with them. Ifanyone has some on-line suggestions, could you please e-mail meoff-list?Thanks Greg from piscator@macatawa.org Wed Jan 16 21:10:38 2002 g0H3AbW23400 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:10:38 -0600 Subject: Re: Montagne, a little long Well, YEAH! I've accepted that the fly rod is a spring as well as afulcrum. Some rods (like PHY and Ritz para's) are designed to work more asa spring than fast or progressive rods, I think. That unmanageable, smallerdiameter butt section is there to load and move line, not just support thetip. It's not a better design, perhaps; just different. Like Buicks andOldsomobiles. Dodge and Plymouth. Fords and Lincolns. Lincoln andDouglas. Tom and Jerry. Brian Brian from mmihalas@mindspring.com Wed Jan 16 21:22:54 2002 g0H3MsW24046 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:22:54 - helo=smaug) id 16R38b-00004M-00; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:22:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Length Question Are you going to be fishing from a flats boat, canoe/kayak, or wading? Idon't see why you would need a longer rod if you are standing well above thewater in a flats boat. And you aren't going to be doing any mending. Thoughone advantage of the longer length is keeping that Clouser away from youand/or the guide in the wind -- with a shorter rod you may have to go to thebackhand cast sooner. Mike Okay, since hardly anyone has an opinion on this List, I was wondering if we might develop a consensus, and have a discussion on rod length. I am working on a rod for an upcoming saltwater trip. It is to be a 9 wt., and hollowbuilt. Primary fishing duty will be for redfish and speckled sea trout.Right now I have it laid out as an 8'9" rod, 2 piece. I prefer shorter rods, though, especially in the 7'6" range. The only benefit I see to a longer rod is the ability to mend at greater length. So, what do you guys think? Andplease, don't all give me the same answer. }B^)> M-D from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 16 21:51:28 2002 g0H3pRW24875 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:51:28 -0600 (authenticated) Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:52:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Rod Length Question MD, My offer still stands. I'll loan you a good nine weight for the salt.Mine's 8.5' + a little when you add the fighting butt. Longer length equals longer lever. Easier to cast long distances. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: I am workingon a rod for an upcoming saltwater trip. It is to be a 9 wt., and hollowbuilt. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 16 22:36:21 2002 g0H4aIW26067 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:36:19 - Subject: Re: splitting That's the old Bob Nunley/PeterMc Kean method. TY At 01:07 PM 1/16/02 -0800, Tim wrote: I'm splitting out my second rod and using the technique where you split it using the palm of your hands, I can not believe how much easier it is than the Garrison method, no wasted cane. I can't remember who first posted it, but I want to thank that person. Thank you /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Wed Jan 16 22:48:05 2002 g0H4m4W26580 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:48:04 -0600 16 Jan 2002 20:47:59 PST Subject: Re: Montagne all, i think we are swinging after the bell. timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe g0H5b3W27837 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:37:04 - Subject: Re: perhaps a simple way to minimize varnish issues. That would work, or just drain the varnish into a container and drop marbles into the container to fill the space. TY At 04:31 PM 1/16/02 -0500, earsdws@duke.edu wrote: Jim,Instead of draining your varnish from your drip tube into an empty plastic gallon jug, why not drain it through a tube into a collapsible plastic water bottle (that could swell on filling)? The drip tube could fill with CO2, stored in an inflated plastic bag, using the vacuum created by the varnish outflow. By using a couple of bags, a couple of valves and some tubing wouldn't you be able to minimize the exposure of your varnish to air for only a few bucks?Just a thought, dws. James Harris wrote: All, I use a drip tube system which requires filling the tube prior to every coat of mow spar. The one-gallon plastic bottle I use for storage is also used for catching the varnish below the tube. This system works with my limited garage ceiling height. The problem is that with all the pouring and filling and open space in the storage bottle, the varnish gets put in contact with a lot of fresh air. Living in Phoenix doesn't help matters. My bamboo is provably dryer than most and in the summer I can varnish wraps in a day, but keeping my varnish in good shape is Tough. Because I've have to replace a fair bit of it this issue is a real concern. Now... with that said, I've received a lot of good info from the list. Thank you all. I really liked the idea a few of you had about home made CO2. I have decided however, based on my system and circumstances that it will be most effective to get a small bottle of nitrogen and fit it with a regulator as suggested by Troy Miller off list. Nitrogen is dry, clean, inert and safe. It's only slightly lighter than air and will effectively purge air with the insertion of a tube near the bottom of the container. It's a cheap common gas used in numerous other purging processes. Several list members also expressed concern about tediously regulating the flow from bloxygen and other products. An accidental blast into the varnish with the resulting spray is not something I want to contend with. The regulator will eliminate this potential. The down side here is the initial investment. A filled, 25 cubic foot bottle, ( about 4" X 18") with a low pressure regulator costs about $120.00. That equates to 10 or 11 cans of Bloxygen and that's provably enough to last most of us the rest of our rod making days. However, with a little help from my friends, I've manage to scrounge up everything I need for next to nothing. I do think though, that even if I had to buy everything over the counter, for me, it's a cost effective addition to myshop. This is my own personal conclusion and may not be the best choice formany. Thanks again, JIM /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Jan 16 23:37:06 2002 g0H5b3W27838 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:37:04 - Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix If you store the varnish in the original tin after firmly closing the lid, store the tin upside dow so the film forms on what will be the bottom when you open the tin up again, or add marbles to fill the space. TY At 04:51 PM 1/16/02 -0600, Tony Spezio wrote: Jim,When I was storing the varnish in a plastic container I had a lot of problems with the varnish jelling. I was told that plastic breaths. Since I started draining back in the original can and add a little bit if thinner on top of the varnish before closing the can, it more than tripled the life of the varnish over keeping it in a plastic jug. The plastic jug may be a big part of the problem.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com James Harris wrote: All, I use a drip tube system which requires filling the tube prior to every coat of mow spar. The one-gallon plastic bottle I use for storage is also used for catching the varnish below the tube. This system works with my limited garage ceiling height. The problem is that with all the pouring and filling and open space in the storage bottle, the varnish gets put in contact with a lot of fresh air. Living in Phoenix doesn't help matters. My bamboo is provably dryer than most and in the summer I can varnish wraps in a day, but keeping my varnish in good shape is Tough. Because I've have to replace a fair bit of it this issue is a real concern. Now... with that said, I've received a lot of good info from the list. Thank you all. I really liked the idea a few of you had about home made CO2. I have decided however, based on my system and circumstances that it will be most effective to get a small bottle of nitrogen and fit it with a regulator as suggested by Troy Miller off list. Nitrogen is dry, clean, inert and safe. It's only slightly lighter than air and will effectively purge air with the insertion of a tube near the bottom of the container. It's a cheap common gas used in numerous other purging processes. Several list members also expressed concern about tediously regulating the flow from bloxygen and other products. An accidental blast into the varnish with the resulting spray is not something I want to contend with. The regulator will eliminate this potential. The down side here is the initial investment. A filled, 25 cubic foot bottle, ( about 4" X 18") with a low pressure regulator costs about $120.00. That equates to 10 or 11 cans of Bloxygen and that's provably enough to last most of us the rest of our rod making days. However, with a little help from my friends, I've manage to scrounge up everything I need for next to nothing. I do think though, that even if I had to buy everything over the counter, for me, it's a cost effective addition to myshop. This is my own personal conclusion and may not be the best choice formany. Thanks again, JIM /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jan 17 05:47:05 2002 g0HBl1W02659 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:47:01 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4180. . Clean. Processed in 0.841032 secs); 17 Jan 200211:29:00 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: C&R reel seat pinning I have never lost a butt cap using 5 min. epoxy. I clean the inside with laquer thinner prior to installing. Over the long haul (25+ years) it probably pays to pin.Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Harry:Snet out a donation rod to the Cumberland Valley TU on Sunday. Thepresidentloved the rod, but the butt cap feel off when he removed it from the bag. Ialmost died of embarrassment. I had used FERRULITE.Usually I use 5 minute epoxy. Haven't had any problems other than this. Imust say that glueing up reelseat components is my least favorite part ofrodbuilding. I really get unnerved when using glue around $40 pieces of woodand metal with fine knurling.I know another who has asked the question about pinning and got berated bysomeone on the list who said the need for pinning a butt cap was absurd. Ifit was absurd, he would not have asked.BTW, on Bret's advice I got a quart of Golfsmith shaft epoxy to try onferrules. I might try that next time on the butt cap as well.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:05 PM Subject: C&R reel seat pinning One more question, Any of you that do NOT pin your reel seat capsfind that you have trouble with them workingloose? Here lately I've had two or three comeoff. Fit was good. Glue joint was tight as atick, etc. Think I'll pin them all from now on. Justwish I had done so before bluing them. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan 17 06:49:25 2002 g0HCnOW03906 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:49:24 - Subject: RE: splitting I was going to mention this last time the splitting method came up. I cannotfind it in the text, but look in the Kreider book. There is a diagram of thesplittin process that almost shows the same thing. Two hands grabbing andpulling on a spltting strip. Check it out if you hav the book.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: splitting That's the old Bob Nunley/PeterMc Kean method. from channer@frontier.net Thu Jan 17 06:55:50 2002 g0HCtnW04205 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:55:49 - for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 05:55:46 - Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix Tony;I thought you knew, we've all lost our marbles!john Tony Young wrote: If you store the varnish in the original tin after firmly closing the lid,store the tin upside dow so the film forms on what will be the bottom whenyou open the tin up again, or add marbles to fill the space. TY from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jan 17 07:33:34 2002 g0HDXWW04912 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:33:33 - Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix That's assumed on this list [:-)] TY At 05:55 AM 1/17/02 -0700, channer wrote: Tony;I thought you knew, we've all lost our marbles!john Tony Young wrote: If you store the varnish in the original tin after firmly closing the lid,store the tin upside dow so the film forms on what will be the bottomwhenyou open the tin up again, or add marbles to fill the space. TY /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Jan 17 07:48:26 2002 g0HDmPW05411 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:48:25 - sender ) Subject: Re: Montagne, a little long Troy, Excellent reply!!!If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a bit...1. It seems to me recoil would have to add something, its mass moving, ithas some kinetic energy, its gotta go somewhere, right?? Take a rod that isvery tippy, you get curls in your cast, isn't that happening during recoil.It would seem that it would have a greater effect with cane than carbon.True? 2. What did you find different when you over and under lined the rods. Thiswould simulate how a rod behaves during short and long casting. It would beinteresting to repeat your experiment with cane. 3. Is there an ideal bendform (profile of the rod during its max flexure)?? stroke.It would seem that there would be. If that's true, it would seem that youcould design a rod that matches that bendform for differing casting strokes(slow vs fast). Or, should different bendforms be required for slow orfaster casts, you can design to that. This makes more sense in my mindthantalking stresses. Are you casting that rod yet??? tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Montagne, a little long OK y'all, I've bitten my tongue as long as I can. I've read with greatinterest what engineers and normal people on the list think about Reed'sinterview with Michael. I look at the pictures and think Lordy, whatgrotesque, and yet beautiful rods Mike made. And I don't doubt that theycast as wonderfully as the much respected users have reported. But through all the complex mathematics and confusing, non-standard techspeak, Ihave to believe that Mike was as much lucky to come upon great tapers aseveryoneelse. His founding theory, the linear acceleration postulate, is flawed from the start. I will spare you the details, but please believe me when I tell you that I am consumed by casting flyrods. For the last 16 years, Ihave been writing (on and off) a book on the physics of flycasting. I'm not done yet. When I lived in Alaska, oh, about 8 or so years ago, I devised a plan tofigure out what was happening with the inertia of line and rod, and the flex characteristics of different types of rods in use. How things changed asloads varied. That sort of earth-shattering stuff. And I will give you the nutshell. This is not conjecture, it is what I determined from some crude, yet controlled experiments. I took my high-dollar fast shutter video camera (the kind you can buy for about 500 bucks these days!) and recorded an hour or so of myself casting several different rods. Some with DT, some with WF. Some with a line four weights too heavy on it (an 8 on a 4!). I took thisfootage and ran it through a projector at the office, onto a flip chart, to where I could trace the shape of the rod, frame by frame. Then Icomparedthese frames by overlaying them on a light table. What do you supposehappened? The rod starts out straight, as we know, then bends more and more deeply into the rod. Please don't stone me, but these were all progressive carbon rods. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the stroke, the rod did not continue to increase in flexure. It continued moving forward toward the stop, and itcontinued to rotate through the fulcrum of my wrist or elbow, dependingonwhether I was stiff-wristing or not. But the rod flexure was a carbon copy the last portion of the stroke, right up until the stop. This would be the MOGB, as Mike points out. So up until this time, I'm pretty excited aboutwhat I'm reading in Reed's interview. Now the trouble. Mike says that the recoil phase adds little or nothing to the energy in the system, because you have to stop accelerating the rod to effect the recoil. Now where does hededuce this from? He would be right, if the unloading of the tip wereslower than I am able to stroke the rod. But that is not what I saw. Thefastest movement of the rod tip is right at the bitter end, when the flexed rod returns to its straight (neutral) condition. I will grant him, the tip does slow down once it overshoots the straight line position, because nowthe rod is doing work to flex the rod in the forward direction. Why is this important? Does this mean that his computer model is wrong? I would propose that, while he may be considering more dynamics in hismodelthan Garrison, it does not immediately follow that the model is moreeffective regarding the ability to design a perfect taper first cast out of the drying cabinet. I do not buy the idea of a single "divine" bendform.This would force all casters to assume very similar strokes, which is asking too much. What are you going to do, tell a customer, "Sure, I'll make you a custom rod. But I'll also have to teach you how to cast it, which will run you another 2 grand...."? Hey, maybe I CAN quit my day job..... : ) Reed, please don't take any of these replies personal. I very muchappreciate all you offer to this list, and I love your website. I go there several times a week to poke around and see if I've missed anything. Juston this one topic, I have studied it in earnest (as has Mr. Montagne), andwanted to offer what I sincerely believe to be true about the dynamics ofcaster/rod/line. Sorry for being so long-winded.... TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:10 PMCc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Montagne Tony;Thank You!!!!!!Why do other people say what I want to say so much betterthan I could. I've written and deleted about 8 repy's to this thread, Ialso see no reason to trash the guy, especially when only ONE person onthis list really has the faintest idea whether the rods work or not.Walk a mile in his shoes first fellas.john Tony Young wrote: I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with Mike and Reed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what Iwas to write. from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Jan 17 07:55:28 2002 g0HDtRW05724 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:55:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Payne 197 & 198 Chris.The tip that measured .132 at the butt and .054 at tip. This taperwas cut using the old 3 piece tip pattern. The other tip was cut using thenew 3 piece pattern. The new 3 piece tip pattern was machined in 1948 andthen modified in 1953-4. Payne also changed the mid and butt patternsaroundthe same time. Payne also used a salmon tip and mid patterns for his heavier3 piece rods in longer lengths.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Payne 197 & 198 Hi Hal, My comment about the early/late versions of the Payne198 was information I've gleaned from others and notbased on any personal experience I've had withoriginal Payne 198 rods. I appreciate your expertisewith the Payne tapers, and willingness to provide goodinformation to us about these tapers. Another rodmaker miced a 198 and the taper wasprovided to me a few years ago. The two tips actuallymiced out quite differently from about the 15" pointdown to the tip ferrule. Differences of .002" to.010" along these points. The heavier of the two tipsmiced at about .140" at the ferrule and .054" at thetiptop. That's the taper I've been using in the 198'sI've made. The other tip miced at .132" at the ferruleand .054" at the tip. It is my understanding thatthis rod was an original early rod from about the30's? Do you think the difference in the tips wasintentional or a result of milling processes in thatera? I would be grateful for the 198 or 197 series tapersyou have if it's not too much trouble. Thanks. Chris McDowellblitzenrods@yahoo.com --- Harold Bacon wrote: Shawn.The std Payne #198 is a 5/6 wtg. The #'sreported on variouslists have the Model 198L listed which is a 4/5 wtg.What line wtg are youlooking for in 7'6" length? If you are looking for a4wtg. look at the model197L. Let me know and I will send you a Taper.Best Hal.----- Original Message -----From: "Shawn Pineo" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:16 AMSubject: Payne 198, Comments please?? Hi all,I'm starting a Payne 198 (for myself hopefully??). Does anyone have experience with this taper?? Looks very nice from the graph. The archives shows a little discussion on this rod as to what line wt it casts.The taper archives shows it as a 7'6" 4 wt 3 pc rod although in my later Payne catalogues it is shown as a 6 wt? I would love to hear anyone's comments on this rod. It looks to be a nice break from the Young / Dickerson lifestyle I have been leading lately ;^)Should make a nice rod for browns this spring, MMMMmmm hurry up and get here fishing season, I'm starting to contemplate building a mini rod and a tiny fly to go after my daughters goldfish, (yes it seems like that long since I've been out fishing!)Shawn __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Jan 17 08:22:07 2002 g0HEM6W06704 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:22:06 - (authenticated) for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:23:43 -0800 Subject: Tubing vs. Bar Stock Ferrules Friends, I've been thinking a good deal about whichtypes of ferrules are most durable. Seems to methat in the past I've read hints that ferrulesmade from drawn tubing are harder, thus perhapsmore durable, than those made from bar stock. Isthere any truth to this? And if so, is the extrahardness from drawing the metal a big enough plusto make the tubing ferrules a plus? Just wondering,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Thu Jan 17 08:46:01 2002 g0HEk0W07732 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:46:00 - Subject: RE: Montagne, a little long - Shortened it! Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools I read the article and what you wrote - I understand both a littlebetter. My two cents worth, a different way of achieving the same goal, gettingthe fly to the fish. Six sided vs. Quad vs. Montage quad. The castingaction, and casters ability, determines where the fly and line go, justlike whipping something, take a whip and swing at something, it hitswithout much force, now swing and put the stop action into it, you getthe "crack" and a whole lot of pain. Same principal - Matter of taste inrods in my book. Haven't figured out how to cast the "whole line" yet,probably never will, the river and streams I fish aren't big enough toneed that distance. Peter -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Montagne, a little long OK y'all, I've bitten my tongue as long as I can. I've read with greatinterest what engineers and normal people on the list think about Reed'sinterview with Michael. I look at the pictures and think Lordy, whatgrotesque, and yet beautiful rods Mike made. And I don't doubt thatthey cast as wonderfully as the much respected users have reported. Butthrough all the complex mathematics and confusing, non-standardtechspeak, I have to personal. I very much appreciate all you offer tothis list, and I love your website. I go there several times a week topoke around and see if I've missed anything. Just on this one topic, Ihave studied it in earnest (as has Mr. Montagne), and wanted to offerwhat I sincerely believe to be true about the dynamics ofcaster/rod/line. Sorry for being so long-winded.... TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Montagne Tony;Thank You!!!!!!Why do other people say what I want to say so much betterthan I could. I've written and deleted about 8 repy's to this thread, Ialso see no reason to trash the guy, especially when only ONE person onthis list really has the faintest idea whether the rods work or not.Walk a mile in his shoes first fellas. john Tony Young wrote: I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with Mike and Reed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what I was to write. from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Jan 17 09:02:52 2002 g0HF2pW08588 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:02:51 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:49:42 -0600 Subject: RE: not rodbuilding, but tying Alaska Fly Fishers website has some excellent step by step tyinginstructions for a multitude of patterns. The place to go once you are ontheir site is Fly of the Month. Feb 98 would be the closest to what you arelooking for. Rich Johnson, that does the FOM column is an outstanding tyerand a close personal friend. He is also a professional photographer, whichyou will see by his beautifully clear pix of each tying sequence. TAM http://www.akflyfishers.org/ -----Original Message----- Subject: not rodbuilding, but tying to the list--I'm doing a fly tying demo for my son's scout troop next week, and I'mlooking for an illustrated set of instructions for tying a woolybugger. That way the scouts have something to take with them. Ifanyone has some on-line suggestions, could you please e-mail meoff-list?Thanks Greg from aebersold@ou.edu Thu Jan 17 09:05:00 2002 g0HF4xW08780 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:04:59 - id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:04:59 -0600 Subject: lathe book this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. My son just gave me a nice metal lathe. Unfortunately the manual said notto wear a tie and watch your hair if it was long. I'm bald and never wear atie so I have that part under control. Does anyone have a book they wouldrecommend to get me started? I've turned on a wood lathe but never ownedoroperated a metal lathe. -d Dennis Aebersold Unfortunately the bald have a lathebut never owned or operated a metal lathe. Dennis Aebersold from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Jan 17 09:05:35 2002 g0HF5ZW08940 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:05:35 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:05:26 -0800 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:05:26 GMT Subject: The perfect stroke FILETIME=[651DEE00:01C19F68] The only perfect rod is one thatis accompanied by the perfect stroke. Only by prefecting ones casting willyou ever cast a perfect rod. That's my opinion! ClickHere from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Jan 17 10:00:09 2002 g0HG08W11507 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:00:08 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:46:59 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Three good questions Thanks, Tom, nope, I have not finished THE ROD yet. : ( Probably beanother month or two, as busy as my next few months are. The ferrules you steel wool to these? But that will scratch them, and they are so perfectright now... To answer your questions to the best of my ability.... 1. I was thinking of another way to make this point while driving home lastnight. Don't know why I didn't put this in my original post... Askyourself this simple question -- why do we care about the taper of a rod atall, if we don't care how it loads and unloads. Especially the unloadingpart. If the only energy we gave to the flyline was through the lineartranslation (movement) of the rod, then we could use a straight rod (notaper) and get the same outcome. If we've put in all the energy we can bythe time of MOGB, then who cares what happens during recoil? I, for one,do. 2. I did not underline any of the rods, I just overlined that one. And itdid exactly what I was predicting, so didn't bother with additional tests.The rod loaded very deeply, very early in the stroke. The MOGB was reachedbefore the rod was even past my head. And you should have seen the uglytailing loops... : ) But I was drastically heavy, I did not try it with amoderate overload or underload. Sure, I'd love to repeat this with cane,and a little more controls in place. Maybe we can do some of this testingin Livingston this year! We could also check out the difference betweensilk and plastic lines, but tracing the line along with the rod.... REED? 3. As I wrote in my first post, I can't swallow the notion of an idealbendform. In fact, I don't think you could even arrive at an ideal bendform useless when I hit the salt with an 8. I WANT my rod to behave differentlyin these two applications! My goals are completely different, so why shouldI confine myself with a rigid casting form rule? I have some pretty strong opinions about casting philosophy. But it doesn'tmean I am right. That's why I haven't finished my book yet. I want to bemore sure that I am right. I don't like retracting things I said when I wasyounger and dumber.... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Montagne, a little long Troy, Excellent reply!!!If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a bit...1. It seems to me recoil would have to add something, its mass moving, ithas some kinetic energy, its gotta go somewhere, right?? Take a rod that isvery tippy, you get curls in your cast, isn't that happening during recoil.It would seem that it would have a greater effect with cane than carbon.True? 2. What did you find different when you over and under lined the rods. Thiswould simulate how a rod behaves during short and long casting. It would beinteresting to repeat your experiment with cane. 3. Is there an ideal bendform (profile of the rod during its max flexure)?? stroke.It would seem that there would be. If that's true, it would seem that youcould design a rod that matches that bendform for differing casting strokes(slow vs fast). Or, should different bendforms be required for slow orfaster casts, you can design to that. This makes more sense in my mindthantalking stresses. Are you casting that rod yet??? tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Montagne, a little long OK y'all, I've bitten my tongue as long as I can. I've read with greatinterest what engineers and normal people on the list think about Reed'sinterview with Michael. I look at the pictures and think Lordy, whatgrotesque, and yet beautiful rods Mike made. And I don't doubt that theycast as wonderfully as the much respected users have reported. But through all the complex mathematics and confusing, non-standard techspeak, Ihave to believe that Mike was as much lucky to come upon great tapers aseveryoneelse. His founding theory, the linear acceleration postulate, is flawed from the start. I will spare you the details, but please believe me when I tell you that I am consumed by casting flyrods. For the last 16 years, Ihave been writing (on and off) a book on the physics of flycasting. I'm not done yet. When I lived in Alaska, oh, about 8 or so years ago, I devised a plan tofigure out what was happening with the inertia of line and rod, and the flex characteristics of different types of rods in use. How things changed asloads varied. That sort of earth-shattering stuff. And I will give you the nutshell. This is not conjecture, it is what I determined from some crude, yet controlled experiments. I took my high-dollar fast shutter video camera (the kind you can buy for about 500 bucks these days!) and recorded an hour or so of myself casting several different rods. Some with DT, some with WF. Some with a line four weights too heavy on it (an 8 on a 4!). I took thisfootage and ran it through a projector at the office, onto a flip chart, to where I could trace the shape of the rod, frame by frame. Then Icomparedthese frames by overlaying them on a light table. What do you supposehappened? The rod starts out straight, as we know, then bends more and more deeply into the rod. Please don't stone me, but these were all progressive carbon rods. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the stroke, the rod did not continue to increase in flexure. It continued moving forward toward the stop, and itcontinued to rotate through the fulcrum of my wrist or elbow, dependingonwhether I was stiff-wristing or not. But the rod flexure was a carbon copy the last portion of the stroke, right up until the stop. This would be the MOGB, as Mike points out. So up until this time, I'm pretty excited aboutwhat I'm reading in Reed's interview. Now the trouble. Mike says that the recoil phase adds little or nothing to the energy in the system, because you have to stop accelerating the rod to effect the recoil. Now where does hededuce this from? He would be right, if the unloading of the tip wereslower than I am able to stroke the rod. But that is not what I saw. Thefastest movement of the rod tip is right at the bitter end, when the flexed rod returns to its straight (neutral) condition. I will grant him, the tip does slow down once it overshoots the straight line position, because nowthe rod is doing work to flex the rod in the forward direction. Why is this important? Does this mean that his computer model is wrong? I would propose that, while he may be considering more dynamics in hismodelthan Garrison, it does not immediately follow that the model is moreeffective regarding the ability to design a perfect taper first cast out of the drying cabinet. I do not buy the idea of a single "divine" bendform.This would force all casters to assume very similar strokes, which is asking too much. What are you going to do, tell a customer, "Sure, I'll make you a custom rod. But I'll also have to teach you how to cast it, which will run you another 2 grand...."? Hey, maybe I CAN quit my day job..... : ) Reed, please don't take any of these replies personal. I very muchappreciate all you offer to this list, and I love your website. I go there several times a week to poke around and see if I've missed anything. Juston this one topic, I have studied it in earnest (as has Mr. Montagne), andwanted to offer what I sincerely believe to be true about the dynamics ofcaster/rod/line. Sorry for being so long-winded.... TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:10 PMCc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Montagne Tony;Thank You!!!!!!Why do other people say what I want to say so much betterthan I could. I've written and deleted about 8 repy's to this thread, Ialso see no reason to trash the guy, especially when only ONE person onthis list really has the faintest idea whether the rods work or not.Walk a mile in his shoes first fellas.john Tony Young wrote: I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with Mike and Reed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what Iwas to write. from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Jan 17 10:09:10 2002 g0HG99W12014 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:09:09 - for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:08:41 - 0117110841; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:08:41 -0500 Subject: RE: Three good questions Does the fly rod during casting act like a lever with a fulcrum, or acantilevered beam? In a message dated Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:01:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Miller, Troy" writes: Thanks, Tom, nope, I have not finished THE ROD yet. : ( Probably beanother month or two, as busy as my next few months are. The ferrulesyousent are absolutely beautiful! You mean I have to take emery paper andsteel wool to these? But that will scratch them, and they are so perfectright now... To answer your questions to the best of my ability.... 1. I was thinking of another way to make this point while driving home lastnight. Don't know why I didn't put this in my original post... Askyourself this simple question -- why do we care about the taper of a rod atall, if we don't care how it loads and unloads. Especially the unloadingpart. If the only energy we gave to the flyline was through the lineartranslation (movement) of the rod, then we could use a straight rod (notaper) and get the same outcome. If we've put in all the energy we can bythe time of MOGB, then who cares what happens during recoil? I, for one,do. 2. I did not underline any of the rods, I just overlined that one. And itdid exactly what I was predicting, so didn't bother with additional tests.The rod loaded very deeply, very early in the stroke. The MOGB wasreachedbefore the rod was even past my head. And you should have seen the uglytailing loops... : ) But I was drastically heavy, I did not try it with amoderate overload or underload. Sure, I'd love to repeat this with cane,and a little more controls in place. Maybe we can do some of this testingin Livingston this year! We could also check out the difference betweensilk and plastic lines, but tracing the line along with the rod.... REED? 3. As I wrote in my first post, I can't swallow the notion of an idealbendform. In fact, I don't think you could even arrive at an ideal bendform useless when I hit the salt with an 8. I WANT my rod to behave differentlyin these two applications! My goals are completely different, so why shouldI confine myself with a rigid casting form rule? I have some pretty strong opinions about casting philosophy. But it doesn'tmean I am right. That's why I haven't finished my book yet. I want to bemore sure that I am right. I don't like retracting things I said when I wasyounger and dumber.... -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Montagne, a little long Troy, Excellent reply!!!If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a bit...1. It seems to me recoil would have to add something, its mass moving, ithas some kinetic energy, its gotta go somewhere, right?? Take a rod thatisvery tippy, you get curls in your cast, isn't that happening during recoil.It would seem that it would have a greater effect with cane than carbon.True? 2. What did you find different when you over and under lined the rods. Thiswould simulate how a rod behaves during short and long casting. It would beinteresting to repeat your experiment with cane. 3. Is there an ideal bendform (profile of the rod during its max flexure)?? stroke.It would seem that there would be. If that's true, it would seem that youcould design a rod that matches that bendform for differing castingstrokes(slow vs fast). Or, should different bendforms be required for slow orfaster casts, you can design to that. This makes more sense in my mindthantalking stresses. Are you casting that rod yet??? tom ----- Original Message -----From: Miller, Troy Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:08 PMSubject: RE: Montagne, a little long OK y'all, I've bitten my tongue as long as I can. I've read with greatinterest what engineers and normal people on the list think about Reed'sinterview with Michael. I look at the pictures and think Lordy, whatgrotesque, and yet beautiful rods Mike made. And I don't doubt that theycast as wonderfully as the much respected users have reported. But through all the complex mathematics and confusing, non-standard techspeak, Ihave to believe that Mike was as much lucky to come upon great tapers aseveryoneelse. His founding theory, the linear acceleration postulate, is flawed from the start. I will spare you the details, but please believe me when I tell you that I am consumed by casting flyrods. For the last 16 years, Ihave been writing (on and off) a book on the physics of flycasting. I'm not done yet. When I lived in Alaska, oh, about 8 or so years ago, I devised a plan tofigure out what was happening with the inertia of line and rod, and the flex characteristics of different types of rods in use. How things changed asloads varied. That sort of earth-shattering stuff. And I will give you the nutshell. This is not conjecture, it is what I determined from some crude, yet controlled experiments. I took my high-dollar fast shutter video camera (the kind you can buy for about 500 bucks these days!) and recorded an hour or so of myself casting several different rods. Some with DT, some with WF. Some with a line four weights too heavy on it (an 8 on a 4!). I took thisfootage and ran it through a projector at the office, onto a flip chart, to where I could trace the shape of the rod, frame by frame. Then Icomparedthese frames by overlaying them on a light table. What do you supposehappened? The rod starts out straight, as we know, then bends moreand more deeply into the rod. Please don't stone me, but these were all progressive carbon rods. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the stroke, the rod did notcontinue to increase in flexure. It continued moving forward toward the stop, and itcontinued to rotate through the fulcrum of my wrist or elbow, dependingonwhether I was stiff-wristing or not. But the rod flexure was a carbon copy the last portion of the stroke, right up until the stop. This would be the MOGB, as Mike points out. So up until this time, I'm pretty excited aboutwhat I'm reading in Reed's interview. Now the trouble. Mike says that the recoil phase adds little or nothing to the energy in the system, because you have to stop accelerating the rod to effect the recoil. Now where doeshededuce this from? He would be right, if the unloading of the tip wereslower than I am able to stroke the rod. But that is not what I saw. Thefastest movement of the rod tip is right at the bitter end, when the flexed rod returns to its straight (neutral) condition. I will grant him, the tip does slow down once it overshoots the straight line position, becausenowthe rod is doing work to flex the rod in the forward direction. Why is this important? Does this mean that his computer model iswrong? I would propose that, while he may be considering more dynamics in hismodelthan Garrison, it does not immediately follow that the model is moreeffective regarding the ability to design a perfect taper first cast out of the drying cabinet. I do not buy the idea of a single "divine" bendform.This would force all casters to assume very similar strokes, which is asking too much. What are you going to do, tell a customer, "Sure, I'll make you a custom rod. But I'll also have to teach you how to cast it, which will run you another 2 grand...."? Hey, maybe I CAN quit my day job..... : ) Reed, please don't take any of these replies personal. I very muchappreciate all you offer to this list, and I love your website. I go there several times a week to poke around and see if I've missed anything. Juston this one topic, I have studied it in earnest (as has Mr. Montagne), andwanted to offer what I sincerely believe to be true about the dynamics ofcaster/rod/line. Sorry for being so long-winded.... TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:10 PMCc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Montagne Tony;Thank You!!!!!!Why do other people say what I want to say so much betterthan I could. I've written and deleted about 8 repy's to this thread, Ialso see no reason to trash the guy, especially when only ONE person onthis list really has the faintest idea whether the rods work or not.Walk a mile in his shoes first fellas.john Tony Young wrote: I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with Mike and Reed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said what Iwas to write. from jojo@ipa.net Thu Jan 17 10:28:54 2002 g0HGSsW13105 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:28:54 - helo=default) id 16RFPD-00004O-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:28:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Three good questions It acts just like a persimmon switch with ya' momma on the end of it. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Three good questions Does the fly rod during casting act like a lever with a fulcrum, or a cantilevered beam? In a message dated Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:01:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Miller, Troy" writes: Thanks, Tom, nope, I have not finished THE ROD yet. : ( Probably beanother month or two, as busy as my next few months are. The ferrules you sent are absolutely beautiful! You mean I have to take emery paper andsteel wool to these? But that will scratch them, and they are so perfect right now... To answer your questions to the best of my ability.... 1. I was thinking of another way to make this point while driving home last night. Don't know why I didn't put this in my original post... Askyourself this simple question -- why do we care about the taper of a rod at all, if we don't care how it loads and unloads. Especially the unloading part. If the only energy we gave to the flyline was through the lineartranslation (movement) of the rod, then we could use a straight rod (notaper) and get the same outcome. If we've put in all the energy we can by the time of MOGB, then who cares what happens during recoil? I, for one, do. 2. I did not underline any of the rods, I just overlined that one. And it did exactly what I was predicting, so didn't bother with additional tests. The rod loaded very deeply, very early in the stroke. The MOGB was reached before the rod was even past my head. And you should have seen theuglytailing loops... : ) But I was drastically heavy, I did not try it with a moderate overload or underload. Sure, I'd love to repeat this with cane, and a little more controls in place. Maybe we can do some of this testing in Livingston this year! We could also check out the difference betweensilk and plastic lines, but tracing the line along with the rod.... REED? 3. As I wrote in my first post, I can't swallow the notion of an idealbendform. In fact, I don't think you could even arrive at an ideal bendform totally useless when I hit the salt with an 8. I WANT my rod to behave differently in these two applications! My goals are completely different, so why should I confine myself with a rigid casting form rule? I have some pretty strong opinions about casting philosophy. But it doesn't mean I am right. That's why I haven't finished my book yet. I want to be more sure that I am right. I don't like retracting things I said when I was younger and dumber.... -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Montagne, a little long Troy, Excellent reply!!!If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a bit...1. It seems to me recoil would have to add something, its mass moving, it has some kinetic energy, its gotta go somewhere, right?? Take a rod that is very tippy, you get curls in your cast, isn't that happening during recoil. It would seem that it would have a greater effect with cane than carbon.True? 2. What did you find different when you over and under lined the rods. This would simulate how a rod behaves during short and long casting. It would be interesting to repeat your experiment with cane. 3. Is there an ideal bendform (profile of the rod during its max flexure)?? stroke. It would seem that there would be. If that's true, it would seem that you could design a rod that matches that bendform for differing casting strokes (slow vs fast). Or, should different bendforms be required for slow orfaster casts, you can design to that. This makes more sense in my mind than talking stresses. Are you casting that rod yet??? tom ----- Original Message -----From: Miller, Troy Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:08 PMSubject: RE: Montagne, a little long OK y'all, I've bitten my tongue as long as I can. I've read with great interest what engineers and normal people on the list think about Reed's interview with Michael. I look at the pictures and think Lordy, whatgrotesque, and yet beautiful rods Mike made. And I don't doubt that they cast as wonderfully as the much respected users have reported. But through all the complex mathematics and confusing, non-standard techspeak, I have to believe that Mike was as much lucky to come upon great tapers as everyone else. His founding theory, the linear acceleration postulate, is flawed from the start. I will spare you the details, but please believe me when I tell you that I am consumed by casting flyrods. For the last 16 years, I have been writing (on and off) a book on the physics of flycasting. I'm not done yet. When I lived in Alaska, oh, about 8 or so years ago, I devised a plan to figure out what was happening with the inertia of line and rod, and the flex characteristics of different types of rods in use. How things changed as loads varied. That sort of earth-shattering stuff. And I will give you the nutshell. This is not conjecture, it is what I determined from some crude, yet controlled experiments. I took my high-dollar fast shutter video camera (the kind you can buy for about 500 bucks these days!) and recorded an hour or so of myself casting several different rods. Some with DT, some with WF. Some with a line four weights too heavy on it (an 8 on a 4!). I took this footage and ran it through a projector at the office, onto a flip chart, to where I could trace the shape of the rod, frame by frame. Then I compared these frames by overlaying them on a light table. What do you supposehappened? The rod starts out straight, as we know, then bends more and more deeply into the rod. Please don't stone me, but these were all progressive carbon rods. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the stroke, the rod did not continue to increase in flexure. It continued moving forward toward the stop, and it continued to rotate through the fulcrum of my wrist or elbow, depending on whether I was stiff-wristing or not. But the rod flexure was a carbon copy the last portion of the stroke, right up until the stop. This would be the MOGB, as Mike points out. So up until this time, I'm pretty excited about what I'm reading in Reed's interview. Now the trouble. Mike says that the recoil phase adds little or nothing to the energy in the system, because you have to stop accelerating the rod to effect the recoil. Now where does he deduce this from? He would be right, if the unloading of the tip wereslower than I am able to stroke the rod. But that is not what I saw. The fastest movement of the rod tip is right at the bitter end, when the flexed rod returns to its straight (neutral) condition. I will grant him, the tip does slow down once it overshoots the straight line position, because now the rod is doing work to flex the rod in the forward direction. Why is this important? Does this mean that his computer model is wrong? I would propose that, while he may be considering more dynamics in his model than Garrison, it does not immediately follow that the model is moreeffective regarding the ability to design a perfect taper first cast out of the drying cabinet. I do not buy the idea of a single "divine" bendform. This would force all casters to assume very similar strokes, which is asking too much. What are you going to do, tell a customer, "Sure, I'll make you a custom rod. But I'll also have to teach you how to cast it, which will run you another 2 grand...."? Hey, maybe I CAN quit my day job..... : ) Reed, please don't take any of these replies personal. I very muchappreciate all you offer to this list, and I love your website. I go there several times a week to poke around and see if I've missed anything. Just on this one topic, I have studied it in earnest (as has Mr. Montagne), and wanted to offer what I sincerely believe to be true about the dynamics of caster/rod/line. Sorry for being so long-winded.... TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:10 PMCc: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Montagne Tony;Thank You!!!!!!Why do other people say what I want to say so much better than I could. I've written and deleted about 8 repy's to this thread, I also see no reason to trash the guy, especially when only ONE person on this list really has the faintest idea whether the rods work or not.Walk a mile in his shoes first fellas.john Tony Young wrote: I was about to make a comment on list about Reed's interview with Mike and Reed's message piped up on my machine which pretty much said whatI was to write. from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Jan 17 10:42:35 2002 g0HGgYW13945 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:42:34 - g0HGgTN07257 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:42:29 -0600 Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix How does that saying go!!!Don't put all your marbles in the same can.????????Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony;I thought you knew, we've all lost our marbles!john Tony Young wrote: If you store the varnish in the original tin after firmly closing the lid,store the tin upside dow so the film forms on what will be the bottomwhenyou open the tin up again, or add marbles to fill the space. TY from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Jan 17 10:44:24 2002 g0HGiMW14128 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:44:22 - Subject: Re: lathe book Find a copy of Text Book Of Turning by Hercus. TY At 09:04 AM 1/17/02 -0600, Aebersold, Dennis R wrote: My son just gave me a nice metal lathe. Unfortunately the manual said not to wear a tie and watch your hair if it was long. I'm bald and never wear a tie so I have that part under control. Does anyone have a book they would recommend to get me started? I've turned on a wood lathe but never owned or operated a metal lathe. -d Dennis Aebersold /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html A crash reducesYour expensive computerTo a simple stone. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from bhoy551@earthlink.net Thu Jan 17 11:21:48 2002 g0HHLgW16087 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:21:47 - Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:21:39 -0500 Subject: Curing varnish with UV FILETIME=[6C893650:01C19F7B] All, Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick cure varnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable for wholesections? Bill from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Jan 17 11:33:17 2002 g0HHXHW16957 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:33:17 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:33:11 -0800 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:33:11 GMT Subject: Plane irons FILETIME=[0948D120:01C19F7D] To the List: have a blacksmith buddy of mine, do some tempering on my plane irons. He'san incredibly talented smith and has offered to harden the blades if I'd like.What I'm wondering is, how much difference does the iron make? I've got a completly happy with the A2 blades I have for my Lie Nielsen Plane. They'retough as hell, and last, but in no way do they cut as well as my Hock Blades.I've had to increase the bevel on the A2 blade to stop it from chipping and like the A2 blade and still cut like the Hock Iron, or am I living in dreamworld? to share and print your photos: ClickHere from caneman@clnk.com Thu Jan 17 11:34:57 2002 g0HHYuW17220 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:34:56 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix A quote I once heard about Bull Riding seems to apply to Rodmaking... "Go buy a large bag of marbles. Put them all in your mouth. Each timeyou finish a rod, spit out one marble. When you've lost all your marbles,you are a rodmaker" Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix How does that saying go!!!Don't put all your marbles in the same can.????????Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony;I thought you knew, we've all lost our marbles!john Tony Young wrote: If you store the varnish in the original tin after firmly closing the lid, store the tin upside dow so the film forms on what will be the bottom when you open the tin up again, or add marbles to fill the space. TY from CALucker@aol.com Thu Jan 17 11:37:17 2002 g0HHbGW17512 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:37:16 - Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV I would ask the folks at Winston or the Montana division of Gibson Guitar Company. I know Gibson flash dries their acoustic guitars -- dry in a flash. You can imagine dust problems and assembly line problems with the body surfaces of an acoustic guitar. The automotive industry surely does as well. I know there is a special catalyst in the Gibson lacquer. I do not know what you would do to a spar to make it dry in seconds.I am sure that the Winston folks have moseyed over to Gibson and watchedthe process.Chris Lucker I would ask the folks at imagine dust problems and assembly line problems with the body surfaces of know what you would do to a spar to make it dry in seconds.I am sure that the Winston folks have moseyed over to Gibson andwatched the process.Chris Lucker from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Thu Jan 17 11:44:13 2002 g0HHiCW18247 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:44:12 - Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:44:14 -0700 0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:44:04 -0700 Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix FILETIME=[941E1660:01C19F7E] g0HHiCW18248 I think the traditional agate marbles give that classic look to the rodmakeras well. JIM "Bob Nunley" 01/17/02 10:33AM >>> A quote I once heard about Bull Riding seems to apply to Rodmaking... "Go buy a large bag of marbles. Put them all in your mouth. Each timeyou finish a rod, spit out one marble. When you've lost all your marbles,you are a rodmaker" Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix How does that saying go!!!Don't put all your marbles in the same can.????????Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com >channer wrote: Tony;I thought you knew, we've all lost our marbles!john Tony Young wrote: If you store the varnish in the original tin after firmly closing the lid, store the tin upside dow so the film forms on what will be the bottom when you open the tin up again, or add marbles to fill the space. TY from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Jan 17 11:53:16 2002 g0HHrFW18961 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:53:15 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:39:58 -0600 Subject: RE: Rod Length Question There would be benefits to both shorter and longer rods. A shorter rod will not be so visible to fish, cast less shadow, etc. Thiscan be a factor on the flats. It can also be more effective in fightingfish, depending on your technique. Also, a shorter rod will be verynoticably lighter for a given rod weight. Not just due to the reduction inlength, but also because the diameter/wall can be reduced down the entireblank since there is less mass above it. You already know this. Thinkabout whether you will be fishing any intermediate or sinking lines beforedeciding on a short rod. A longer rod will allow you to increase the linear distance that the tipmoves during a stroke. When you are trying to throw heavy flies, withsometimes bitter wind, you need to gain your speed gradually to preventtailing your loops. I believe that a longer rod will allow you to gainspeed more gradually than a shorter rod, and result in fewer tailing loops.I know I will take heat over this comment, because many people have bigproblems tailing loops with longer rods. If you cast them right, I believelonger rods help (assuming it is not a noodle to begin with). And ofcourse, the horizontal casting plane will be somewhat higher off the water,allowing your long-distance loops to fully unroll before gravity takes itstoll. The old "long rod for float tube" syndrome. Choice is yours, but take a look at what the plastic guys are doing. Theymake 9' rods because they can. And for them, the rod is not too heavy touse all day long. I'd love to take Harry's rod out sometime to compare withwhat I'm already familiar with. Feel like Joe Brooks for a day... : ) -----Original Message----- Subject: Rod Length Question Okay, since hardly anyone has an opinion on this List, I was wondering if wemight develop a consensus, and have a discussion on rod length. I am workingon a rod for an upcoming saltwater trip. It is to be a 9 wt., and hollowbuilt. Primary fishing duty will be for redfish and speckled sea trout.Right now I have it laid out as an 8'9" rod, 2 piece. I prefer shorter rods,though, especially in the 7'6" range. The only benefit I see to a longer rodis the ability to mend at greater length. So, what do you guys think? Andplease, don't all give me the same answer. }B^)> M-D from rextutor@yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 12:02:19 2002 g0HI2IW19559 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:02:18 - 17 Jan 2002 10:02:17 PST Subject: Re: lathe book If it is a Sherline, a good place to start is"Tabletop Machining book" BY JOE MARTIN which isSherline specific.--- "Aebersold, Dennis R" wrote: My son just gave me a nice metal lathe. Unfortunately the manual said notto wear a tie and watch your hair if it was long. I'm bald and never wear atie so I have that part under control. Does anyonehave a book they wouldrecommend to get me started? I've turned on a woodlathe but never owned oroperated a metal lathe. -d Dennis Aebersold __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Jan 17 12:13:19 2002 g0HIDJW20286 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:13:19 - MAA16991 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 Subject: Montagne's hollow technique I've never even tried hollow-building so this is all idle speculation,but I'm wondering what others more experienced think of Montagne's corrugated- style method. It seems to have a definite advantage,in that, if you've got a way to execute it, you could do it after rough planing, before you start to taper, since every strip,butt or tip, could he hollowed identically. No need to worryabout ferrules or guides or anything. The corrugated strips shouldwork just fine in ordinary planing forms. On the downside, I wonder if a strip scalloped cross-wise would beas stiff, since you are cutting at least some of the power fibersevery quarter inch or so.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Jan 17 12:34:46 2002 g0HIYjW21261 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:34:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV Bill.Several of the graphite Mfg. use U.V. curing on both the blank coatingand on guide wraps. The lamps and systems are very costly. I've builtseveral systems for both coating blanks and golf shafts. If you can find ahand held unit like the one Dentist uses that would work for guide wraps.Epoxy Coatings Co. makes several U.V. curable coatings. Yes it works andfast.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Curing varnish with UV All, Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick curevarnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable for whole sections? Bill from dryfly@erols.com Thu Jan 17 12:53:39 2002 g0HIrcW22422 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:53:38 -0600 ([208.58.203.165] helo=erols.com) id 16RHfN-0004Jf-00; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:53:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane irons Jim, FYI, I bought a couple A2 Hock plane blades from Chris Bogart that hehad Ron Hock make for the Lie-Nielsen 9 1/2 planes. I sharpened themlast night but have yet to use them, but plan to try them this weekend.As far as the LN blades I've been somewhat disappointed (as have someothers I've spoken to) with their A2 blades and even like their pre A2blades better. I really like the A2 Hocks I use with my Record andStanley 9 1/2's so I have high hopes for the new ones for the LN plane(which is a really awesome plane). Bob from bhoy551@earthlink.net Thu Jan 17 13:14:55 2002 g0HJEsW23988 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:14:54 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:14:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV FILETIME=[3D02F8C0:01C19F8B] That seems to indicate that the wavelength is critical to the process. Hmmm... my wife is a dentist... maybe? Experimenting with black light couldn't hurt. It's cheap, relatively broad spectrum if I recall, and my Hendrix poster hasn't had a good dose in 30 years. [:)] BillAt 01:34 PM 1/17/2002 -0500, Harold Bacon wrote: Bill.Several of the graphite Mfg. use U.V. curing on both the blank coatingand on guide wraps. The lamps and systems are very costly. I've builtseveral systems for both coating blanks and golf shafts. If you can find ahand held unit like the one Dentist uses that would work for guide wraps.Epoxy Coatings Co. makes several U.V. curable coatings. Yes it works andfast.Best Hal.----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:24 PMSubject: Curing varnish with UV All, Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick curevarnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable for whole sections? Bill from saweiss@flash.net Thu Jan 17 13:37:27 2002 g0HJbRW25379 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:37:27 - g0HJbL4116446 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:37:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV Organization: Prodigy Internet Bill,I use two fluorescent fixtures (4-ft 2-tube) in my drying cabinet. Thisarrangement generates both warmth and UV. I get enough drying and curingtowork on the sections in 24 hours. I also have a fluorescent fixture in mydip chamber and get flash drying in about 8 hours, then transfer to thedrying cabinet. Maybe this is hocus-pocus, I would appreciate feedback fromothers.Steve Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick curevarnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable for whole sections? Bill from jvswan@earthlink.net Thu Jan 17 14:03:56 2002 g0HK3tW26967 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:03:55 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV Bill, I don't know if it would work, but tropical fish supply places have UVfluorescent bulbs for tanks. They are used for sterilizing tank/pond waterand have pretty high concentrations of UV. I imagine they are like superconcentrated tanning bulbs. Anyway, the bulbs cost $20-30. If you want thewhole fixture you would be into it for a little over $100 depending on thewattage and the brand, etc. Might be a neat idea to try if one has the money and the time. A custom UVcabinet might be cool to have. Maybe better than a lamp box. Jason from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Jan 17 14:09:40 2002 g0HK9eW27472 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:09:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV Bill.The lamps used are Medium pressure mercury type that produce UV inthe200-400 nanometers range.Lamp power is in the range of 150-300 wattsperinch. The arc length is set between 6-12 inches. The time to cure a .003"coating is less than 1 min. at 300 watts per inch. Wrap coatings take 2 minto cure to tack free. real fast. You can build a graphite rod in less than4 hours from start.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV That seems to indicate that the wavelength is critical to the process.Hmmm... my wife is a dentist... maybe? Experimenting with black lightcouldn't hurt. It's cheap, relatively broad spectrum if I recall, and myHendrix poster hasn't had a good dose in 30 years. [:)] BillAt 01:34 PM 1/17/2002 -0500, Harold Bacon wrote: Bill.Several of the graphite Mfg. use U.V. curing on both the blank coating and on guide wraps. The lamps and systems are very costly. I've builtseveral systems for both coating blanks and golf shafts. If you can find a hand held unit like the one Dentist uses that would work for guide wraps.Epoxy Coatings Co. makes several U.V. curable coatings. Yes it works andfast.Best Hal.----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:24 PMSubject: Curing varnish with UV All, Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick cure varnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable for whole sections? Bill from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Jan 17 14:12:50 2002 g0HKCnW27836 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:12:49 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:12:44 -0800 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:12:43 GMT Subject: Al Medved FILETIME=[52C844F0:01C19F93] To All: I tried to get information yesterday but couldn't, as the 8th floor of thehospital was on fire and Carole was in a lock-up. Thank god that Al was on the5 th floor while all of this was going on. I talked with him today and he's ingood spirits. Hopefully Al will be home shortly and be able to get back torodmaking real soon. I wish that all of his fellow friends and rodmakers willsay a little prayer for him. I've never had a nicer friend then Al. JimMSN Photos is the easiest way to shareand print your photos: ClickHere from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Jan 17 14:19:39 2002 g0HKJcW28842 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:19:39 - 17 Jan 2002 12:19:38 PST Subject: Re: Three good questions when it comes to persimon and willow in the hands of amother. the taper is of little importance. :>) timothy --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: It acts just like a persimmon switch with ya' mommaon the end of it. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:08 AMSubject: RE: Three good questions Does the fly rod during casting act like a lever with a fulcrum, or acantilevered beam? In a message dated Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:01:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Miller, Troy" writes: Thanks, Tom, nope, I have not finished THE ROD yet. : ( Probably be another month or two, as busy as my next few months are. The ferrulesyou sent are absolutely beautiful! You mean I have to take emery paper and steel wool to these? But that will scratch them, and they are soperfect right now... To answer your questions to the best of my ability.... 1. I was thinking of another way to make this point while driving homelast night. Don't know why I didn't put this in my original post... Ask yourself this simple question -- why do we care about the taper of a rodat all, if we don't care how it loads and unloads. Especially theunloading part. If the only energy we gave to the flyline was through the linear translation (movement) of the rod, then we could use a straight rod (no taper) and get the same outcome. If we've put in all the energy we canby the time of MOGB, then who cares what happens during recoil? I, forone, do. 2. I did not underline any of the rods, I just overlined that one. Andit did exactly what I was predicting, so didn't bother with additionaltests. The rod loaded very deeply, very early in the stroke. The MOGB wasreached before the rod was even past my head. And you should have seen the ugly tailing loops... : ) But I was drastically heavy, I did not try it witha moderate overload or underload. Sure, I'd love to repeat this withcane, and a little more controls in place. Maybe we can do some of thistesting in Livingston this year! We could also check out the difference between silk and plastic lines, but tracing the line along with the rod....REED? 3. As I wrote in my first post, I can't swallow the notion of an ideal bendform. In fact, I don't think you could even arrive at an idealbendform delicate 2-wt istotally useless when I hit the salt with an 8. I WANT my rod to behavedifferently in these two applications! My goals are completely different, so whyshould I confine myself with a rigid casting form rule? I have some pretty strong opinions about casting philosophy. But itdoesn't mean I am right. That's why I haven't finished my book yet. I want tobe more sure that I am right. I don't like retracting things I said when Iwas younger and dumber.... -----Original Message-----From: Jill and Tom Ausfeld Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 7:49 AM Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Subject: Re: Montagne, a little long Troy, Excellent reply!!!If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a bit... 1. It seems to me recoil would have to add something, its mass moving,it has some kinetic energy, its gotta go somewhere, right?? Take a rodthat is very tippy, you get curls in your cast, isn't that happening duringrecoil. It would seem that it would have a greater effect with cane than carbon. True? 2. What did you find different when you over and under lined the rods.This would simulate how a rod behaves during short and long casting. It wouldbe interesting to repeat your experiment with cane. 3. Is there an ideal bendform (profile of the rod during its maxflexure)?? transferred for a givenstroke. It would seem that there would be. If that's true, it would seem thatyou could design a rod that matches that bendform strokes (slow vs fast). Or, should different bendforms be required for slow or faster casts, you can design to that. This makes more sense in my mindthan talking stresses. Are you casting that rod yet??? tom ----- Original Message -----From: Miller, Troy Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:08 PMSubject: RE: Montagne, a little long OK y'all, I've bitten my tongue as long as I can. I've read withgreat interest what engineers and normal people on the list think aboutReed's interview with Michael. I look at the pictures and think Lordy, what grotesque, and yet beautiful rods Mike made. And I don't doubt thatthey cast as wonderfully as the much respected users have reported. But through all the complex mathematics and confusing, non-standard techspeak, Ihave to believe that Mike was as much lucky to come upon great tapers aseveryone === message truncated === ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Thu Jan 17 14:23:07 2002 g0HKN7W29470 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:23:07 - sender ) "Miller, Troy" Subject: Re: Three good questions Troy, 3. As I wrote in my first post, I can't swallow the notion of an idealbendform. In fact, I don't think you could even arrive at an ideal bendform I'm not so sure now, I used to feel this way. Keep reading... What I find to work with a delicate 2-wt is totallyuseless when I hit the salt with an 8. I WANT my rod to behave differently in these two applications! My goals are completely different, so why should I confine myself with a rigid casting form rule? yes, true, but they would be two different rods, the rods would be designedto your style of casting. I have a hard time describing what I see in my head, especially when it isthis complex, but I'll try. First let's take my cast stroke out of the equation. Lets say my typicalcast is of a force we'll call tomsforce. This is now a constant, I alwayscast 40', no matter where the trout are, and it is never windy when I fish. Now lets take a rod, a 7' 5 wt. of my classic taper, which is pretty closeto linear. If I apply tomsforce to that rod it will behave in a predictablemanner and in a way I like (i.e. - it is efficient for my style). Meaning,it will load to a point (bendform and bamboo variation) and recoilaccordingly (bamboo variation). Lets assume, (big assumption here) that allbamboo is the same. Now lets say we can quantify/qualify that bendform, beit arc length or distance from tip to butt or some combination, or someother thing I have yet to think of. It's some super complicated Laplacetransform or something, we'll call it tomsbend. Now take that same rod and put a 2wt. line on it, apply tomsforce. We'll geta bendform that's different than tomsbend, being not as efficient for me, ihate it. But this new bendform may be identical to troysbend, because troycasts faster than tom because tom is a weenie, so troy loves it. Now to take it one step further, what if I make a rod that has an identicalbendform to tomsbend in a 8' 8wt. If I apply tomsforce, the rod should castlike a dream, true??? I realize this a huge oversimplification, but....I think this is what MM wasgoing for. Let me know what you think??tom from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Jan 17 14:30:10 2002 g0HKU9W29955 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:30:10 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:16:52 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu,"Miller, Troy" Subject: RE: Three good questions I wish you the best of luck. I ain't that smart.... : ) FWIW, Orvis is trying to do this, and in my opinion, it's no better than"this one is stiff, and this one is soft".... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Three good questions Troy, 3. As I wrote in my first post, I can't swallow the notion of an idealbendform. In fact, I don't think you could even arrive at an ideal bendform I'm not so sure now, I used to feel this way. Keep reading... What I find to work with a delicate 2-wt is totallyuseless when I hit the salt with an 8. I WANT my rod to behave differently in these two applications! My goals are completely different, so why should I confine myself with a rigid casting form rule? yes, true, but they would be two different rods, the rods would be designedto your style of casting. I have a hard time describing what I see in my head, especially when it isthis complex, but I'll try. First let's take my cast stroke out of the equation. Lets say my typicalcast is of a force we'll call tomsforce. This is now a constant, I alwayscast 40', no matter where the trout are, and it is never windy when I fish. Now lets take a rod, a 7' 5 wt. of my classic taper, which is pretty closeto linear. If I apply tomsforce to that rod it will behave in a predictablemanner and in a way I like (i.e. - it is efficient for my style). Meaning,it will load to a point (bendform and bamboo variation) and recoilaccordingly (bamboo variation). Lets assume, (big assumption here) that allbamboo is the same. Now lets say we can quantify/qualify that bendform, beit arc length or distance from tip to butt or some combination, or someother thing I have yet to think of. It's some super complicated Laplacetransform or something, we'll call it tomsbend. Now take that same rod and put a 2wt. line on it, apply tomsforce. We'll geta bendform that's different than tomsbend, being not as efficient for me, ihate it. But this new bendform may be identical to troysbend, because troycasts faster than tom because tom is a weenie, so troy loves it. Now to take it one step further, what if I make a rod that has an identicalbendform to tomsbend in a 8' 8wt. If I apply tomsforce, the rod should castlike a dream, true??? I realize this a huge oversimplification, but....I think this is what MM wasgoing for. Let me know what you think??tom from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Jan 17 14:46:03 2002 g0HKk2W01114 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:46:02 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:32:51 -0600 Subject: RE: Three good questions Sorry to keep bothering -- I think this would be like saying, I want four cars, one for major economyon the highway, one for average around-town driving, one to race on a 1/4mile dirt track, and one top fuel Winston Cup. I don't want to have toadjust my driving style for these cars when I drive them, but I want each ofthem to be the very best at their intended function. And further, I wantsome equations to describe a relationship between the design of those cars.Their suspensions, engines, trannies, tires, fuels all have to fit intothese equations. Whoa, that's a tall order. I'd like to shake that man'shand, maybe I can absorb some of that kind of intellect by simpleosmosis.... : ) I like to change my style now and then. Like wearing slacks one day andjeans the next... TAM-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Three good questions Troy, 3. As I wrote in my first post, I can't swallow the notion of an idealbendform. In fact, I don't think you could even arrive at an ideal bendform I'm not so sure now, I used to feel this way. Keep reading... from jojo@ipa.net Thu Jan 17 16:26:54 2002 g0HMQrW06630 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:26:53 -0600 helo=default) id 16RKzc-0004r3-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:26:44 -0500 Subject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix Certainly, one would want to use agate marbles, and not the more pedestrianglass type. Sheesh. M-D I think the traditional agate marbles give that classic look to the rodmaker as well. JIM "Bob Nunley" 01/17/02 10:33AM >>> A quote I once heard about Bull Riding seems to apply to Rodmaking... "Go buy a large bag of marbles. Put them all in your mouth. Each time you finish a rod, spit out one marble. When you've lost all your marbles,you are a rodmaker" Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:40 AMSubject: Re: The Varnish That Ate Phoenix How does that saying go!!!Don't put all your marbles in the same can.????????Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Tony;I thought you knew, we've all lost our marbles!john Tony Young wrote: If you store the varnish in the original tin after firmly closing the lid, store the tin upside dow so the film forms on what will be the bottom when you open the tin up again, or add marbles to fill the space. TY from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan 17 17:03:04 2002 g0HN33W08429 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:03:03 - Subject: RE: Curing varnish with UV Bill:I do not claim to know how or why it works, but I have a 10" black lighttube and a 60W black light that I put in the cabinet. My cabinet is ratherlarge and is insulated on the inside with silver bubble pack styleinsulation. (I forgot what it is called, but it sure works well). Thisreflects the UV pretty well.I let them run and a section dipped Friday night can be sanded with 1500 andolive oil, and then polished with Meguire's #9 swirl remover to a perfectshine. To be honest, I do not even worry about dust specks anymore. I useProSpar Spar Varnish. This does not work as well with Helmsmen.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Curing varnish with UV All, Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick curevarnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable forwhole sections? Bill from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan 17 17:13:07 2002 g0HND6W08961 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:13:06 - Subject: RE: Curing varnish with UV I should have slowed down on that last post...I usually leave the normal bulb (runs 102-105 degrees) in for about 4-6hours or whenever I am going to bed. Then I switch to the UV bulbs. Thesection can be sanded and polished on Sunday evening.This was John Zimny's recommendation to use UV/blacklights. He presenteditat Grayrock. I may or may not have misinterpreted it, but it sure works. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Curing varnish with UV Bill:I do not claim to know how or why it works, but I have a 10" black lighttube and a 60W black light that I put in the cabinet. My cabinet is ratherlarge and is insulated on the inside with silver bubble pack styleinsulation. (I forgot what it is called, but it sure works well). Thisreflects the UV pretty well.I let them run and a section dipped Friday night can be sanded with 1500 andolive oil, and then polished with Meguire's #9 swirl remover to a perfectshine. To be honest, I do not even worry about dust specks anymore. I useProSpar Spar Varnish. This does not work as well with Helmsmen.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Curing varnish with UV All, Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick curevarnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable forwhole sections? Bill from James.Hatch@METROKC.GOV Thu Jan 17 17:24:12 2002 g0HNOBW09686 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:24:12 -0600 id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:24:06 -0800 Subject: rodmaking class in the Seattle area? this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Hi -- Does anyone know of a rodmaking class in the Seattle area? I've seenseveral references to weeklong classes where you learn the basics and in atleast one case, end up with a finished rod. Please advise and thanks.Jock rodmaking class in the Seattle area? Hi -- Does anyone know of a rodmaking= weeklong classes where you learn the basics and in at least one case, = Jock from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 17 17:34:50 2002 g0HNYnW10332 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:34:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV All, Not to be a safety nag, but lamps with output in the 200-400 nm range are capable of burning your eyes big time!!Ask me how I know. Do not even look at reflections from these lamps. I was lucky I didn't do permanent damage to my corneas. The DNA in your cells absorbs UV at 260 nm. Given enough exposure to this light can, in fact cause skin cancer. Used with care , however these lamps are ok. -Doug At 03:09 PM 1/17/2002 -0500, Harold Bacon wrote: Bill.The lamps used are Medium pressure mercury type that produce UV in the200-400 nanometers range.Lamp power is in the range of 150-300 wattsperinch. The arc length is set between 6-12 inches. The time to cure a .003"coating is less than 1 min. at 300 watts per inch. Wrap coatings take 2 minto cure to tack free. real fast. You can build a graphite rod in less than4 hours from start.Best Hal.----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" Cc: "Rodmakers discussion group" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 2:17 PMSubject: Re: Curing varnish with UV That seems to indicate that the wavelength is critical to the process.Hmmm... my wife is a dentist... maybe? Experimenting with black lightcouldn't hurt. It's cheap, relatively broad spectrum if I recall, and myHendrix poster hasn't had a good dose in 30 years. [:)] BillAt 01:34 PM 1/17/2002 -0500, Harold Bacon wrote: Bill.Several of the graphite Mfg. use U.V. curing on both the blank coating and on guide wraps. The lamps and systems are very costly. I've builtseveral systems for both coating blanks and golf shafts. If you can find a hand held unit like the one Dentist uses that would work for guidewraps.Epoxy Coatings Co. makes several U.V. curable coatings. Yes it worksandfast.Best Hal.----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Hoy" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:24 PMSubject: Curing varnish with UV All, Bob M sent a post a while ago about using UV (Black light) to quick cure varnish on wraps. Has anybody tried this and is it suitable for whole sections? Bill Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Jan 17 17:40:27 2002 g0HNeRW10771 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:40:27 - helo=g2t8c9) id 16RM8r-0002Wm-00; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:40:22 -0800 Subject: Re: Montagne's hollow technique Frank, The method you are speaking about is similar to what Per Brandin is using. big seller to me. In fact I just finish my machine to do the style of hollowbuilding. Now I have to find a rod to do it on. You know Per Brandin was so impressed with what Jim Reams was doing withhollowing he told him not to tell anyone the details because it was the sameas Per was doing. Maybe Per got a little peek at Montage work? Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Montagne's hollow technique I've never even tried hollow-building so this is all idle speculation,but I'm wondering what others more experienced think of Montagne'scorrugated- style method. It seems to have a definite advantage,in that, if you've got a way to execute it, you could do it afterrough planing, before you start to taper, since every strip,butt or tip, could he hollowed identically. No need to worryabout ferrules or guides or anything. The corrugated strips shouldwork just fine in ordinary planing forms. On the downside, I wonder if a strip scalloped cross-wise would beas stiff, since you are cutting at least some of the power fibersevery quarter inch or so.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Thu Jan 17 17:46:07 2002 g0HNk6W11422 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:46:06 - PAA24877 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:46:04 - PAA16014 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:45:01 - g0HNjD203447 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:45:13 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:27:32 -0800 Subject: FW: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent When you get ads in your phone or utility bill, include them with thepayment. Let them throw it away.When you get those pre approved letters in the mail credit cards to 2nd mortgages and junk like that, most of them come withpostage paid return envelopes, right?Well, why not get rid of some of your other junk mail and put it in thesecool little envelopes! Send an ad for your local dry cleaner to AmericanExpress. Or a pizza coupon to Citibank. (I especially liked this!)If you didn't get anything else that day, then just send them theirapplication back! If you want to remain anonymous, just make sure yourname isn't on anything you send them.You can send it back empty if you want to just keep them guessing!Eventually, the banks and credit card companies will begin getting alltheir junk back in the mail. Let's let them know! what it's like to get junkmail, andbest of all THEY'RE paying for it! Twice!Let's help keep our postal service busy since they say e-mail is cuttinginto their business, and that's why they need to increase postage again! Send this to a friend or two or three...or fifty. from aport@si.rr.com Thu Jan 17 17:54:00 2002 g0HNs0W11985 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:54:00 - Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:53:41 -0500 Subject: Re: lathe book Dennis,The one that was recommended to me was South Bend's How To Run A =Lathe. I think it's about $13 and available lots of places. Check for it =in used book stores first. It's been in print since about 1915 and =covers all the basics a home user would probably need. It's 128 pgs and =in a stiff paperback binding.Meanwhile, you might profit from reading some of these pages. http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.htmlhttp://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.htmlhttp://me.mit.edu/2.70/machine/lathe/intro.htmlhttp://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/tsetup.htmhttp://155.217.58.58/cgi- bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htmhttp://www.southbendlathe.com/ Have fun!Art Dennis, = available lots of places. Check for it in used book stores first. It's = print since about 1915 and covers all the basics a home user would = need. It's 128 pgs and in a stiff paperback binding. might = reading some of these pages. http://www.lathes.co.uk/index=.htmlhttp://www.lathes.co.uk/page=21.htmlhttp://me.mit.ed=u/2.70/machine/lathe/intro.htmlhttp://easyweb.e=asynet.co.uk/~chrish/tsetup.htmhttp://15=5.217.58.58/cgi- bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htmhttp://www.southbendlathe.com/ Have fun!Art from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Thu Jan 17 18:17:29 2002 g0I0HSW13633 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:17:28 - Subject: Al Medved, from Carole Hi, This just came from Carole Medved, and, as she asked that the info bepassed along, we thought we'd post it. We know many of you are asconcerned as we are. Kat and David Hello everyone, I am home for a short time to pick up a few things for Al - likeunderwear - he hates hospital gowns and exposing himself - I can'timagine why!!!! He had a problem early this AM with a reaction to themedication they are giving him for the blood disorder. The symptomswere very much like a heart attack. They gave him morphine and did anEKG and the hematologist took him off of the meds. I guess we are goingto wing it the rest of the way. This is a real concern for us becauseof Al's history. He is still bleeding from the port in his back, infact, he bled more today than yesterday. They got him up for the firsttime this afternoon and he did OK. He says not too much pain and I knowhe is just thankful that his legs still function. We are still not outof the danger zone but with all of your concern and prayers, we arehopeful. The doctor says he wants to take the port out on Sat. and Iam not sure that will be on schedule if Al keeps bleeding. I guess Ibetter pack an extra pair of gutchies (as my mother used to call them). Just a comparison - a man about Al's age had the same surgery with thesame neurosurgeon 3 hours after Al and he went home this afternoon. Alalways has complications - who knows why. He was in pretty good spiritswhen I left him but I know he is constantly checking the movement in hislegs. The threat is always there. Got to get moving so in closing I can't thank you all enough for all ofyour thoughts, prayers and concerns. I keep asking Al why his hobbyattracts such nice people and I am thanking God for all of you. I know I have missed some wonderful friends in this email but I thinkthe stress is limiting my thinking. Please pass the info for me. ThanksCarole from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Thu Jan 17 18:33:53 2002 g0I0XqW14783 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:33:52 -0600 helo=doug2) id 16RMyX-0007J8-00; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:33:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV Black lights...?.....will disco balls be next ? losey from bob@downandacross.com Thu Jan 17 19:01:23 2002 g0I11IW15782 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:01:18 - Subject: RE: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent Plus. They pay the bulk mail fee when the envelopes are used, don't they? -----Original Message----- Subject: FW: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent When you get ads in your phone or utility bill, include them with thepayment. Let them throw it away. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 17 19:43:45 2002 g0I1hjW16752 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:43:45 - for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:43:34 - Subject: PHY Para 17 Does anyone have the taper for the PHY Para 17 in 8'6" 3 piece? The taperon the rodmakers page is for an 8' 2 piece.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Does anyone have the rodmakers page is for an 8' 2 piece.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Jan 17 20:28:49 2002 g0I2SmW17782 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:28:48 - for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:28:29 - Subject: Spline List, All three sections on this first rod have a "jump" to them when rolled on the counter top, due probably to my flawless binding and staightening technique [:(] What are your opinions regarding the location for the spline, and reasons why? Spline on top or spline on bottom? Thanks, Kyle from oakmere@carol.net Thu Jan 17 21:00:19 2002 g0I30JW18496 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:00:19 -0600 g0I2vK817861; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:57:20 -0500 Subject: RE: My Comments on Montagne Philosophy Hi Folks: Well, I went back and read the whole interview that Reed had with Mr.Montagne again and made notes this time. It is sure difficult reading andunderstanding - and I am not sure I succeeded. As an aside, could someonepoint me to the passage (pages) in Schwiebert's Trout book about theMontagne rod. While Mr. Montagne uses unusual technical terminology to describe what hedid that makes understanding difficult. He invents many technical termsthat are really out of context. Anyway, my sense is that when he talksabout linear acceleration he is talking about the linear acceleration ofthe line as it unfolds from the back cast. Also, he uses some nomenclaturethat is confusing without a picture - LOD, ELL, AOD, MOGB, etc.. Anyway,his thoughts on a slightly rectangular rod design make some sense in thathe can stiffen the lateral motion of the rod while designing the desiredstiffness into the casting plane. As long as one does not take that toextreme (a yard stick), then he may have something to consider. Of coursethe orthogonal planes of the rod - casting plane and lateral plane wouldhave different modal vibration frequencies. That is not all bad in myopinion as long as it does not become exagerated and create a torsional rodmode of coupling vibration where these modes begin to interchange energy.Each of these modes obviously take energy (which the caster supplies), soif one can concentrate all the power (energy per unit of time) into thecasting plane, then the rod should be more efficient - I am not sure howMr. Montagne uses the word efficiency, but it usually is related to powerand energy considerations. In some ways I think that is what Lambuth triedto do with his "twisted" rod design. I still remained confused about some of his numbers and how he tries toexplain what he did in the design process. Anyway, the article on secondread and some notes has some value. It surely would be more useful if Mr.Montagne used conventional engineering technology. Oh by the way, thesectional moments of inertia are important in rod design - it really is theproduct of moment of inertia and the modulus of elasticity of the materialused in the rod that is important - we call that EI and so did Mr. Garrison. Anyone else trying to figure out this guys design idea? Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Jan 17 21:11:57 2002 g0I3BuW18872 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:11:56 - Subject: Re: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 1/17/02 7:01:57 PM Central Standard Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: yeah, and if you don't mind pissing off the mail carrier (be careful about this!) you can always tape the "paid return envelope" to a brick and chuck it in the nearest mailbox! Postage on a brick is about $12. mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Jan 17 21:16:31 2002 g0I3GUW19082 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:16:30 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:16:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Plane irons- but a different sub-topic FILETIME=[7D74A3C0:01C19FCE] I hope this is not too far off the subject, but there is something that =I would like an opinion on.I picked up two of the the new Hock cryo blades. I have found that they =do hold up longer between sharpenings, but are not QUITE as durable as =some others have reported. I get two strips planed between sharpenings, =while some other posts have reported three or more strips. This is not =surprising as each maker has their own opinion about when it is time to =resharpen. But this is what I have noticed. I can get the cryo blades much sharper. =Now, this could be because I think they hold a finer edge and spend a =bit more time on them, or it might be my imagination entirely, but they =seem to end up with a finer final edge than the regular Hock blades. Has =anyone else noticed this, and would there be a rational (metallurgical) =explanation for it? This is not to say that the regular Hocks do not take a fine edge. They =do. Jeff Schaeffer I hope this is not too far off the = there is something that I would like an opinion on.I picked up two of the the new Hock = have found that they do hold up longer between sharpenings, but are not = sharpenings, while some other posts have reported three or more strips. = not surprising as each maker has their own opinion about when it is time = resharpen. But this is what I have noticed. I can = blades much sharper. Now, this could be because I think they hold a = and spend a bit more time on them, or it might be my imagination = (metallurgical) explanation for it? This is not to say that the regular = take a fine edge. They do. Jeff =Schaeffer from rbrand@mmcable.com Thu Jan 17 21:25:03 2002 g0I3P3W19381 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:25:03 - Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:23:38 -0600 Subject: buying cane Hello ListI'm getting ready to purchase some bamboo, and I am debating where to buyit from. I think I remember a post where Bob Malucci had bought some fromImperial Bamboo. Is this correct Bob? And if so were you satisfied with theprice, bamboo, and transaction? Anyone else have any suggestions? Thanks in advanceRodney Brand from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Jan 17 21:31:41 2002 g0I3VeW19660 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:31:40 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:31:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Rod Length Question FILETIME=[A1707400:01C19FD0] I think that rod length is unimportant- it is the action that matters. Thoselong fast graphite sticks that can throw 100 feet of line are great forfishing from a skiff, or in the wind. But if you are wading you want a rodthat can load with a leader and a small loop of line. The majority of fishwill "pop up" 25 feet away and those cannons are useless- they won't loadenough to make an accurate presentation. Same problem if you are castingtofish in shallow water. A rod that can give a delicate presentation increasesyour odds. Sure, there are times when a more moderate action may not let you reach adistant fish. Even then you can wade or pole the boat a little closer beforemaking the cast. Just my opinion, Jeff Schaeffer from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Jan 17 21:38:12 2002 g0I3cBW20021 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:38:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Length Question In a message dated 1/17/02 9:32:06 PM Central Standard Time, jsschaeffer@hotmail.com writes: Ya know, i have thought about this. Tis true! So many people want to cast so waaaaayyy far out there and why? a little 6 ft rod with a bit of a hook would be just right! popping a simple fly out 15-20 ft is probably just the ticket for 90% of fishing! mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from splitcane@attbi.com Thu Jan 17 21:56:47 2002 g0I3ukW20676 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:56:46 - Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:56:36 +0000 "Rodmakers List-serv" Subject: Re: New idea Hi Harry... I think I read about this somewhere, but I think they werecalling it Bamboo Shoot Soup [:-)] On the real side... I would think boiling might change the prosperities ofthe cane and boil out the lignin, similar to boiling out the starch innoodles. Sounds like some testing on the horizon... PS, I will be unavailable 1/27/02 thru 2/10/02 ( Baja On The Fly ) * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: New idea Folks, Talking with a fellow from Tennessee about soakingbamboo before straightening at the Guild Conclave led him toan idea. He called yesterday and asked, "What if you boilthe bamboo for a while? Could you then straighten it assoon as it came out of the water?" I don't know the answer. Anyone ever tried this? Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from oakmere@carol.net Thu Jan 17 22:00:22 2002 g0I40LW20949 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:00:21 -0600 g0I3vW628489 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:57:33 -0500 Subject: RE: Ferrules Hi Harry: My "out loud" thinking is that they may possibly be different or the same.That sure is not much help is it. The bar stock has been extruded and issolid while the tubing is also extruded but it will be a round tube. Nowthe extrusion process will work harden the metal, which means it shouldshow slightly stronger strength properties on the surfaces of the metalwhere most of the plastic deformation occurs. After extrusion, the barstock is machined and drilled. Depending on how this is done, this processmay remove any work hardened properties from the material surface of thebar stock piece. It really also depends on how "hot" the material got fromthe cutting process work (how fast was the cutting and was a coolant used)as that could releave the work hardening properties or induce more workhardening from the cutting process if it was done at high cutting speeds.I am not sure just which would end up being stronger. The ferrules may alsobe annealed which could change their strength properties. Hey Harry, why did you ask this question. :>)))). It is time to go to bed. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Jan 18 01:00:52 2002 g0I70pW24093 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:00:51 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:00:45 -0800 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:00:45 GMT Subject: Re: buying cane FILETIME=[DA327550:01C19FED] Probably depends as much where you are located as anything elseA.J. From: "Rodney Brand" Subject: buying caneDate: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:23:14 -0600 Hello ListI'm getting ready to purchase some bamboo, and I am debating where to buyit from. I think I remember a post where Bob Malucci had bought some fromImperial Bamboo. Is this correct Bob? And if so were you satisfied with theprice, bamboo, and transaction? Anyone else have any suggestions? Thanks in advanceRodney Brand _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Jan 18 01:08:20 2002 g0I78JW24363 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:08:19 -0600 Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:08:13 -0800 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:08:13 GMT baconrod@gsmrinc.com Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV FILETIME=[E531E610:01C19FEE] Will we have to find rayon and polyester thread next?A.J. From: "Douglas Losey" CC: "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UVDate: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:06:04 -0500 Black lights...?.....will disco balls be next ? losey _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Jan 18 08:05:14 2002 g0IE5DW29104 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:05:14 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 06:05:10 -0800 2115.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id GAA23503; ETAsAhQV+r7/xSaB7S4PSKi3+QvHzni11QIUDJXSmk30vek0clg6d6p9cuam5vk= Subject: Macro photo rod parts Wishing to record details of rod hardware with the new digital camera.I do have a copy stand with R/L light reflectors and diffusers. Whatlight source would give the best colors? Do have a pair of blue photoflood bulbs. TIA, Jerry from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Jan 18 08:45:28 2002 g0IEjRW00374 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:45:27 -0600 IAA07768; GAA24281; g0IEja220513; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 06:45:34 -0800 "Coffey, Patrick W" ,"'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent gotta strike back at those vultures any way possible, they invade yourprivacy and no government anything can stop them. When they call I put thephone in my parrots cage and he screams till I remove it, they don't call meagain for some reason! Go Figure! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent Plus. They pay the bulk mail fee when the envelopes are used, don't they? -----Original Message----- Subject: FW: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent When you get ads in your phone or utility bill, include them with thepayment. Let them throw it away. from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Jan 18 08:51:51 2002 g0IEpoW01220 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:51:50 -0600 GAA01220; GAA10778; g0IEpx201821; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 06:51:58 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: buying cane I have bought one bundle from Demarest and 3 from Andy royer (imperialcane)and will buy more from Andy. Better stuff with a lot less cracks, splits andmarks on it. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: buying cane Hello ListI'm getting ready to purchase some bamboo, and I am debating where to buyit from. I think I remember a post where Bob Malucci had bought some fromImperial Bamboo. Is this correct Bob? And if so were you satisfied with theprice, bamboo, and transaction? Anyone else have any suggestions? Thanks in advanceRodney Brand from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Jan 18 08:53:44 2002 g0IErhW01511 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:53:43 -0600 GAA17836; IAA24051; g0IEro204948; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 06:53:49 -0800 jojo@ipa.net, RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Rod Length Question try catching a wild steel head on a little stick like that and you'll knowwhy here in the NW we use big sticks and spey rods. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Length Question In a message dated 1/17/02 9:32:06 PM Central Standard Time, jsschaeffer@hotmail.com writes: Ya know, i have thought about this. Tis true! So many people want to cast so waaaaayyy far out there and why? a little 6 ft rod with a bit of a hook would be just right! popping a simple fly out 15-20 ft is probably just the ticket for 90% of fishing! mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Jan 18 08:59:14 2002 g0IExDW02110 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:59:13 -0600 GAA21865; IAA27698; g0IExK215175; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 06:59:16 -0800 douglosey@spectrumenergy.com, bhoy551@earthlink.net,baconrod@gsmrinc.com Subject: RE: Curing varnish with UV wow, that would be really groovy and far out, maybe even bitchin! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- baconrod@gsmrinc.com Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV Will we have to find rayon and polyester thread next?A.J. From: "Douglas Losey" CC: "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UVDate: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:06:04 -0500 Black lights...?.....will disco balls be next ? losey _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jan 18 09:14:36 2002 g0IFEaW02942 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:14:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu You guys need to do what I do when I get unwanted calls from telemarketers. If it is a woman I start to ask her personal questions. You know about the family and stuff then I ask them what they are wearing and if they have a thong on or what their measurements are. They usually hang up real quick, and if it is a guy I ask him about his wife or girlfriend and if they are any good in bed. OH YEH this really gets them. I once had a guy who would not take NO for an answer and he told me if I ordered some stuff I got a whole bunch of free stuff. Well, I ordered and then took the free stuff and refused the rest of the order at the door. He called and asked why and I told him he did not get the idea that I wanted nothing from him and his business so I ordered over $10,000.00 worth of construction tools. Can you imagine the butt reaming he got from that order being returned. He never called me again. Sometimes I relay mess with them and talk to them in French. They usually hang right up then.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ You guys need to do family and stuff then I ask them what they are wearing and if they have a quick, and if it is a guy I ask him about his wife or girlfriend and if they are who would not take NO for an answer and he told me if I ordered some stuff I asked why and I told him he did not get the idea that I wanted nothing fromhim and his business so I ordered over $10,000.00 worth of construction Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from dryfly@erols.com Fri Jan 18 10:03:56 2002 g0IG3tW06195 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:03:55 -0600 ([208.58.203.209] helo=erols.com) id 16RbUd-0000sr-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:03:51 -0500 Subject: 7'6" 3wt Anyone know of a good 7'6" 3 weight 2 piece dryfly taper? ThanksBob from rkrees@mcn.net Fri Jan 18 10:09:28 2002 g0IG9RW06567 helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16Rba1-0004Xo-00; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:09:25 -0800 Subject: Re: buying cane ?I am very happy with the cane that I get from Demarest and have theupmostpraise for thereservice. Many of you know the problems that I have had with shipping here inMontana and Ihave to tell you that Eileen has gone well beyond the call of duty to remedythis. As I have said, Iam more than happy with this company. I have not had the pleasure of evenseeing Andy's canebut I have heard good things about it on this list and in other circles. from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Jan 18 10:17:25 2002 g0IGHOW07189 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:17:24 -0600 (bhihdcimc02.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.35] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:03:10 -0600 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Plane irons- but a different sub- topic from a metallurgical standpoint, the standard high carbon irons should takea finer edge. This is because of grain size. The introduction of chromiuminto the base alloy causes a general increase in grain size. Larger grainedsteel is more difficult to put a super-keen edge on. Once you have a keenedge, it should stay on there longer, regarding general dulling (notchipping). All, in general. The tempering process may alter this general am blaming for my failed attempt at making useful A2 irons last year.That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! TAM-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Plane irons- but a different sub-topic I hope this is not too far off the subject, but there is something that Iwould like an opinion on.I picked up two of the the new Hock cryo blades. I have found that they dohold up longer between sharpenings, but are not QUITE as durable as someothers have reported. I get two strips planed between sharpenings, whilesome other posts have reported three or more strips. This is not surprisingas each maker has their own opinion about when it is time to resharpen. But this is what I have noticed. I can get the cryo blades much sharper.Now, this could be because I think they hold a finer edge and spend a bitmore time on them, or it might be my imagination entirely, but they seem toend up with a finer final edge than the regular Hock blades. Has anyone elsenoticed this, and would there be a rational (metallurgical) explanation forit? This is not to say that the regular Hocks do not take a fine edge. They do. Jeff Schaeffer from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Jan 18 10:25:31 2002 g0IGPUW07778 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:25:31 -0600 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:25:31 -0500 Subject: Curing varnish with UV Hi, Isn't U.V. the men ness of all finishes and what does curing it with U.V. doto the life of the finish? Maybe someone who has knowledge or works in theindustry can enlighten us. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Fri Jan 18 10:44:29 2002 g0IGiTW09007 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:44:29 -0600 pri.pacificare.com 2002 16:48:15 UT (Tumbleweed ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:43:50 -0800 Subject: RE: Ferrules Nonferrous metals can be hardened by heating and letting them cool slowly.It is the exact opposite of tempering iron or steel. If you heat and quenchnickel silver ( or sterling silver, or gold, etc.) it will anneal (soften)it. But, don't expect a dramatic difference as with hardening or annealingsteel. There is a difference in heat hardening NS, but not as much ashardening steel.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 8:12 PM Subject: RE: Ferrules Hi Harry: My "out loud" thinking is that they may possibly be different or the same.That sure is not much help is it. The bar stock has been extruded and issolid while the tubing is also extruded but it will be a round tube. Nowthe extrusion process will work harden the metal, which means it shouldshow slightly stronger strength properties on the surfaces of the metalwhere most of the plastic deformation occurs. After extrusion, the barstock is machined and drilled. Depending on how this is done, this processmay remove any work hardened properties from the material surface ofthebar stock piece. It really also depends on how "hot" the material got fromthe cutting process work (how fast was the cutting and was a coolantused)as that could releave the work hardening properties or induce more workhardening from the cutting process if it was done at high cutting speeds.I am not sure just which would end up being stronger. The ferrules mayalsobe annealed which could change their strength properties. Hey Harry, why did you ask this question. :>)))). It is time to go tobed. Best, Frank Frank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from jteft@frontiernet.net Fri Jan 18 11:37:45 2002 g0IHbiW12038 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:37:44 -0600 Subject: Newbie Planing ! I have finally gotten to the point which I felt was the hardest thing = do the work. The wrist and hand ae not as sore lately.....:-) Jim T I have finally gotten to the point which I felt was = hardest thing for me as a new rodmaker. That is allowing the plane and = lately.....:-) Jim T from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Fri Jan 18 11:42:06 2002 g0IHg5W12434 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:42:05 -0600 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:41:59 -0800 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:41:59 GMT bob@downandacross.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent FILETIME=[6E7A3730:01C1A047] You guys are good, but not as good as my buddy Dale. When thetelemarketers called him he said something like this. No, Dale and his wifeCathy are not here. I'm just the neighbor, here watching their kids. Dale andhis wife Cathy were killed in a car accident yesterday. Do you want the ph #of the funneral home? This is a the truth and the calling Jim bob@downandacross.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu from telemarketers. know about the if they have a hang up real quick, they are any who would not stuff I got a whole stuff and asked why and I him and his construction tools. Can you returned. He never to them in Hotmail on your mobile device: ClickHere from stoltz10@attbi.com Fri Jan 18 12:50:03 2002 g0IIo2W15477 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:50:02 -0600 Subject: test from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Jan 18 13:07:50 2002 g0IJ7nW16425 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:07:49 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:09:15 -0800 Subject: Re: Newbie Planing ! --------------D5DA86A2DF66B584F6EAAD5C Congrats Jim, Big step. Of course it's possible that you'vealso developed some additional muscular strengthin your planing arm! Harry Jim Tefft wrote: I have finally gotten to the point which I feltwas the hardest thing for me as a new rodmaker.That is allowing the plane and its own weight dothe work. The wrist and hand ae not as sorelately.....:-) -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------D5DA86A2DF66B584F6EAAD5C Congrats Jim, also developed some additional muscular strength in your planing arm! Jim Tefft wrote:I have finally gotten to the pointwhich I felt was the hardest thing for me as a new rodmaker. That is allowingthe plane and its own weight do the work. The wrist and hand ae not assore lately.....:-) -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------D5DA86A2DF66B584F6EAAD5C-- from harms1@pa.net Fri Jan 18 13:12:23 2002 g0IJCMW16828 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:12:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Spline Kyle, This could also be a result of some strips being inadequately straightened,but a quick visual inspection of the strips (prior to and during planing)ought to have obviated that possibility. Usually a "jump" is the result ofstrips being of slightly different dimensions. It doesn't seem to takemuch to make a difference and, of course, this effect will always be greaterin a tip section than in a butt. Not to worry: you'll get a better feel for this as you make more and morerods. As to whether the spline should go on the top or the bottom, you'llprobably get a whole range of opinions. The only question, really, iswhether you want the greatest strength in the back cast or in the forwardcast, and I don't know which might be "better." cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Spline List, All three sections on this first rod have a "jump" to them when rolled on the counter top, due probably to my flawless binding and staightening technique [:(] What are your opinions regarding the location for the spline, andreasons why? Spline on top or spline on bottom? Thanks, Kyle from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Jan 18 13:14:28 2002 g0IJERW17063 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:14:27 -0600 id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:07:36 -0500 id Y2QPV37T; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:07:34 -0500 Subject: Ron Barch All, Does anyone have an email address for Ron? I need to get in contactwith him. Thanks.-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Jan 18 13:23:58 2002 Received: from Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:17:07 -0500 Received: from macatawa.org (TODDT Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2QPV379; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:17:04 - Message-ID:Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:20:39 - Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ron Barch References:Content-Type: text/plain; ttalsma@macatawa.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN All,I've got his address. Once again, the list comes through. Todd Talsma wrote: All, Does anyone have an email address for Ron? I need to get in contactwith him. Thanks.--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Fri Jan 18 13:34:23 2002 Received: fromexosecure-paccare-rap-pri.pacificare.com (inet-fwi-a.phs.com Relay (MMS v4.7)); Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:34:16 -0800 X-Server- Uuid:37b9e691-8261-11d3-8e30-0001fa7e659e Received: by dcembh.phs.comwith Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 200211:34:16 -0800 Message-ID: "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-WSS-ID: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Try a bench plane andholddown clamps, like Tom Smithwick's pictures a couple weeks ago.Definitely the way to go. You will be able to plane as long as you want with nopain at all. Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:31 AM Subject: Newbie Planing ! I have finally gotten to the point which I felt was the hardest thing forme as a new rodmaker. That is allowing the plane and its own weight do thework. The wrist and hand ae not as sore lately.....:-)Jim T This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jan 18 15:25:55 2002 g0ILPsW24543 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:25:54 -0600 Subject: Re: buying cane I have used Andy's cane and cane from Cary Chan. Both are good but I think Andy has the better of the two. I did have the pleasure of talking to the Demarests this summer and looked at some of their cane and I will beordering my next lot from them, not only because the cane was so good but they are super people to boot. The only reason I didn't get my cane from them before was they were our of good stock when I needed some.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I have used Andy's caneand cane from Cary Chan. Both are good but I think Andy has the better of summer and looked at some of their cane and I will be ordering my next lot from them, not only because the cane was so good but they are super people they were our of good stock when I needed some.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from JNL123141@msn.com Fri Jan 18 15:50:57 2002 g0ILouW25985 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:50:56 -0600 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:50:50 -0800 , "Bob Maulucci","RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent FILETIME=[31FEBC40:01C1A06A] Try the Bill Waara method. Say "just a minute" and lay the phone down. =Within 10 minutes they are gone. When they call back-"just a minute"...=. on and on.My method for junk USPS mail: send back the postage paid envelope empty = At any rate, have some fun! John----- Original Message ----- bob@downandacross.com=; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent You guys are good, but not as good as my buddy Dale. When thetelemarkete=rs called him he said something like this. No, Dale and his wife Cathy ar=e not here. I'm just the neighbor, here watching their kids. Dale and his=wife Cathy were killed in a car accident yesterday. Do you want the ph #=of the funneral home? This is a the truth and the calling stopped. Jim call=back-"just a minute".... on and on. My method for junk USPS m= &n=bsp; John ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Bureau Sent:=Friday, January 18, 2002 12:50 PM = bob@downandacr=oss.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Junk Mail, sorry I had to vent Wh=en the telemarketers called him he said something like this. No, Dale and=his wife Cathy are not here. I'm just the neighbor, here watching their =kids. Dale and his wife Cathy were killed in a car accident yesterday. Do=you want the ph # of the funneral home? This is a the truth and the call=ing m from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Fri Jan 18 16:06:56 2002 g0IM6tW26808 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:06:55 -0600 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:06:50 -0800 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:06:50 GMT Subject: Winston Waters Video FILETIME=[6DE08F70:01C1A06C] Hello All-Anyone out there know where to get the "Winston Waters Video?" I borroweda copy from my LFS and I love it....I must HAVE it!!! My one and only fishing trip to Montana was to Twin Bridges two years ago and my visit to Glenns shop was the beginning of my new found joy. The video brings back lots of nice memories and I would like to snatch a copy up.TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from caneman@clnk.com Fri Jan 18 16:24:04 2002 g0IMO2W27712 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:24:03 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Winston Waters Video Eamon,Call Winston in Twin Bridges, MT. They sell it... pretty cheap, I thinkand, as you said, very enjoyable. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Winston Waters Video Hello All-Anyone out there know where to get the "Winston Waters Video?" Iborrowed a copy from my LFS and I love it....I must HAVE it!!! My one and only fishing trip to Montana was to Twin Bridges two years ago and my visit to Glennsshop was the beginning of my new found joy. The video brings back lots ofnice memories and I would like to snatch a copy up.TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Jan 18 16:57:55 2002 g0IMvtW28975 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:57:55 -0600 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:57:34 -0500 MAILINID56-0118175734; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:57:34 -0500 Subject: more design info... I stumbled across some interesting reading regarding fly rod design. Thefirst article deals with determing the "optimal" line weight for a fly rod afterit has been built. The second article discusses using the rod's naturalfrequency (whatever that means for us non pocket protector wearing types)to characterize fly rod action. http://home.att.net/~slowsnap/calib5.htm Kyle from jfreeman@cyberport.com Fri Jan 18 17:34:37 2002 g0INYaW00268 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:34:37 -0600 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Rod Length Question All, Not to start a range war, but I disagree - at least for me, fast or tipaction rods cast as well in close as they do at a distance. I feel it's amatter of casting method. I open and slow my casting stroke, which opensmyloop. I can lay a small fly down almost at the end of my rod. I just don'ttry to get much of a loop going. Granted, moderate actions are more of apleasure to cast in close, but, if I'm going to be caught short, I'd ratherit be with a fast action with which I can throw some distance and somebigger flies, if needed. I hate it when I just can't quite get there. Askanybody who knows Desperation Point on the San Juan how that feels. You'reup to the top of your waders, and 20"+ fish are rising out just where yourrod spine gives it up! Viva les canons! Jim ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod Length Question I think that rod length is unimportant- it is the action that matters. Those long fast graphite sticks that can throw 100 feet of line are great forfishing from a skiff, or in the wind. But if you are wading you want a rodthat can load with a leader and a small loop of line. The majority of fishwill "pop up" 25 feet away and those cannons are useless- they won't loadenough to make an accurate presentation. Same problem if you are casting to fish in shallow water. A rod that can give a delicate presentation increases your odds. Sure, there are times when a more moderate action may not let you reachadistant fish. Even then you can wade or pole the boat a little closer before making the cast. Just my opinion, Jeff Schaeffer from aport@si.rr.com Fri Jan 18 18:44:30 2002 g0J0iUW02029 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:44:30 -0600 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:44:23 -0500 Subject: Telemarketers Here's a hint I learned from a friend. I list my phone in my wife's =maiden name. That way, every time I pick up the phone and am greeted as ="Mr. Cole?", I tell them that no one by that name lives here. At that =point they usually hang right up. If not, I know what I'm dealing with =when they start talking to me anyway!It's not against the law to list your phone under any name you wish. =I used to have an unlisted no. but when the &%^^#*s started =computer-generated dialing, that lost its usefulness immediately.As the salesmen themselves like to say: "Try it, you'll like it!"Art Here's a hint I learned from a friend. I list my = wife's maiden name. That way, every time I pick up the phone and am = "Mr. Cole?", I tell them that no one by that name lives here. At that = start talking to me anyway! immediately. = "Try it, you'll like it!"Art from bob@downandacross.com Fri Jan 18 19:47:24 2002 g0J1lNW03197 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:47:23 -0600 Subject: RE: Macro photo rod parts Hi Jerry:I am glad you asked this. I was out shopping for a new digital camera theother day. I really wanted to get something with the ability to do goodmacro photos. My Kodak DC240 has only a 1.3 megapixel lens. The salesguywasconvinced that I needed at least 3 megapixels ($599+)to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would be too costly to produce alesser effect. I would like to know the best route to go. Also, I have notseen any responses to you, and I would be interested in your eventual setup.Thanks,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Macro photo rod parts Wishing to record details of rod hardware with the new digital camera.I do have a copy stand with R/L light reflectors and diffusers. Whatlight source would give the best colors? Do have a pair of blue photoflood bulbs. TIA, Jerry from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 18 20:15:43 2002 g0J2FgW03743 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:15:42 -0600 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:17:02 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Winston Waters Video Eamon,If you go to an old issue of Western Flyfisher online mag..... http://www.westernflyfisher.com/0101-48rn587fh3h7gy768/wff0101.pdf on page 4 under media you can download and watch the video, notsure if it is the complete one though?? It might take awhile if you don't havehigh speed and it's not DVD quality but I find myself going there quite oftento view it over and over, I should just break down and buy the video as well.,I think it is available right from Winston??It was a Merchant Pacific Production 1995 if that helps any. Shawn Eamon Lee wrote: Hello All-Anyone out there know where to get the "Winston Waters Video?" Iborrowed acopy from my LFS and I love it....I must HAVE it!!! My one and only fishingtrip to Montana was to Twin Bridges two years ago and my visit to Glennsshop was the beginning of my new found joy. The video brings back lots ofnice memories and I would like to snatch a copy up.TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 18 20:24:42 2002 g0J2OfW04101 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:24:41 -0600 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:26:02 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: more design info... All,interestingly, if you go to the second part of this and look under thecalibrated rods list there is a rod that, I believe it was Mark (Lazybee)???,was looking for the taper to.... a certain Farlow Lee Wulf bamboo 2pc, 2oz, 6'Perhaps if you contacted these gentlemen they could point you to theowner of this rod so you could get the taper.Shawn KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I stumbled across some interesting reading regarding fly rod design. Thefirst article deals with determing the "optimal" line weight for a fly rod afterit has been built. The second article discusses using the rod's naturalfrequency (whatever that means for us non pocket protector wearing types)to characterize fly rod action. http://home.att.net/~slowsnap/calib5.htm Kyle from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Jan 18 20:53:13 2002 g0J2rCW04674 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:53:12 -0600 Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:54:33 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Macro photo rod parts --------------E723F65868AF8BCDCF295694 Bob, Jerry, and anyone else that may be interested,mostdigital cameras that are worth their weight in empty film canisters will allowyou to select various "white balance" settings, meaning you can use almostanytype of lighting as long as you don't mix and match them and correct it insidethe Camera (or Photoshop)I personally (notice legal disclaimer) would avoid anything Kodak likethe plague, the K word is a dirty word in my shop right now. Coolpix series 775, 950, and 885(little more $ than other 2) are all finechoices with lots of cool add on toys if you want to experiment later. TheCoolpix 800 is an older model that can be purchased for peanuts now if youdon'tmind the fact that it's not USB. The nice thing about allot of the Nikoncamerasis that you can also use a Nikon speedlight (or other suitable flash) insteadofjust the rinky dink built in flash, this opens up a whole new world ofpossibilities for shooters!Epson actually makes a good line of digital cameras too, they really workwell for print options if you have an Epson photo inkjet printer.On the lighting note a half sheet of translucent white plexiglas makes anice makeshift lighting table with a light source placed a couple feet underthesheet and the object you are taking the picture of on top of it.If you want to really get into it make a tent of diffuser paper (thicktracing paper) and put it over the object on your light table and stick yourcamera lens through a hole in the paper. Add lights all around the tent(exceptin front of the lens) and shoot away!! This technique done properly willproducecrisp, well lit picture with no shadows or hot spots. Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Jerry:I am glad you asked this. I was out shopping for a new digital camera theother day. I really wanted to get something with the ability to do goodmacro photos. My Kodak DC240 has only a 1.3 megapixel lens. The salesguywasconvinced that I needed at least 3 megapixels ($599+)to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would be too costly to produce alesser effect. I would like to know the best route to go. Also, I have notseen any responses to you, and I would be interested in your eventualsetup.Thanks,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:05 AM Subject: Macro photo rod parts Wishing to record details of rod hardware with the new digital camera.I do have a copy stand with R/L light reflectors and diffusers. Whatlight source would give the best colors? Do have a pair of blue photoflood bulbs. TIA, Jerry --------------E723F65868AF8BCDCF295694 Bob, Jerry, and anyone else that may be interested, most digital cameras that are worth their weight in empty film canisterswill allow you to select various "white balance" settings, meaning youcan use almost any type of lighting as long as you don't mix and matchthem and correct it inside the Camera (or Photoshop) legaldisclaimer) would avoid anything Kodak like the plague, the K word is adirty word in my shop right now. rightnow I would stick to Nikon's Coolpix series 775, 950, and 885(little more$ than other 2) are all fine choices with lots of cool add on toys if youwant to experiment later. The Coolpix 800 is an older model that can bepurchased for peanuts now if you don't mind the fact that it's not USB.The nice thing about allot of the Nikon cameras is that you can also usea Nikon speedlight (or other suitable flash) instead of just the rinkydink built in flash, this opens up a whole new world of possibilities forshooters! lineof digital cameras too, they really work well for print options if youhave an Epson photo inkjet printer. sheetof translucent white plexiglas makes a nice makeshift lighting table witha light source placed a couple feet under the sheet and the object youare taking the picture of on top of it. of diffuser paper (thick tracing paper) and put it over the object on yourlight table and stick your camera lens through a hole in the paper. Addlights all around the tent (except in front of the lens) and shoot away!!This technique done properly will produce crisp, well lit picture withno shadows or hot spots. Bob Maulucci wrote:Hi Jerry:I am glad you asked this. I was out shopping for a new digital cameratheother day. I really wanted to get something with the ability to dogoodmacro photos. My Kodak DC240 has only a 1.3 megapixel lens. Thesalesguywasconvinced that I needed at least 3 megapixels ($599+)to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would be too costly toproducealesser effect. I would like to know the best route to go. Also, I havenotseen any responses to you, and I would be interested in your eventualsetup.Thanks,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]OnBehalf Of Jerry YoungSent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:05 AM Subject: Macro photo rod partsWishing to record details of rod hardware with the new digital camera. What light source would give the best colors? Do have a pair of blue photoflood bulbs.TIA,Jerry --------------E723F65868AF8BCDCF295694-- from saweiss@flash.net Fri Jan 18 21:17:09 2002 g0J3H8W05293 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:17:08 -0600 g0J3H3M314764 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:17:03 -0500 Subject: Re: buying cane Organization: Prodigy Internet Andy Royer is The Bamboo Broker, not Imperial Cane.Steve I have bought one bundle from Demarest and 3 from Andy royer (imperial cane) and will buy more from Andy. Better stuff with a lot less cracks, splits and marks on it. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: buying cane Hello ListI'm getting ready to purchase some bamboo, and I am debating where to buy it from. I think I remember a post where Bob Malucci had bought some fromImperial Bamboo. Is this correct Bob? And if so were you satisfied with the price, bamboo, and transaction? Anyone else have any suggestions? Thanks in advanceRodney Brand from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Jan 18 21:31:40 2002 g0J3VdW05721 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:31:39 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:31:26 -0800 2114.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id TAA13078; ETAtAhRoC94MFJJR7lbQ7hXYPWnw60N0FgIVAJ5qDvLB51eApXGhm1jCyLv8tgoa Subject: Fwd: A Tonkin invitation --WebTV-Mail-16726-600 Rec this from Andy Royer two days ago. Been buying for five years fromhim and I am more than satisfied. No interest Ya Da, Ya Da. Jerry Young --WebTV-Mail-16726-600 84F10119; by Subject: A Tonkin invitation All, I have finished sorting my last shipment of bamboo from China and am readyto ship out bundles of cane to rodbuilders. I was unable to make it toChina last year so I worked my sorting process in Seattle. It was nice toavoid a 17 hour plane ride but the three scruffy workers in my warehousehere are no match for the half dozen Chinese women I get to help meoverseas... Ah well, at least the bamboo looks good. This is very nice cane. I've been flattered three times now by rodbuilders(with over 50 years experience between them) who have bought cane frommesince '97 who said this was my finest cane yet. As many of you know, I workclosely with buyers after they receive my cane to listen to all reports onmy bamboo. I hand inspect every piece of cane before I buy and sell it, soit is imperative to me to receive feedback from my customers. I strive toimprove the quality of cane I sell with every shipment and with your help,I will continue to do so. My prices are the same as always; 1-4 bundles (10 poles/bundle) at$150/bundle and 5+ bundles at $130/bundle. This is the 12' x 2" "A" gradebamboo. I have selected each piece individually for rodbuilders. Asalways, every piece is guaranteed to be void of slash/farmer's marks andburn marks. Also, I have on hand a limited supply of extra large poles. This is thesecond time I've worked with these large poles. Buyers from my lastshipment seemed very pleased with the material. These are heavy polesaveraging 2.5" (still 12' in length). I sell these poles in bundles of 5 I may be contacted via email and/or phone. Thanks much to one and all. Cordially, Andy RoyerThe Bamboo Broker206.463.1273bamboo@w-link.net NOTE: This is my first attempt at a cheap and easy email mass mailing. Ihope that it is relevant to each recipient of this email. If you are nothappy with receiving this email or if it seems ill timed (I know I haveorders going out to some of you now or have recently) please let me know, Ican remove anyone from this mailing list. I have created this list frompeople whom I have communicated or sold bamboo to directly and hope that itcan serve as a low impact way for me to get word out in regards to myproduct. Again, my wish is that this email has a positive effect, if, foryou it is not, contact me directly and your name can be removed from mylist. Thank you one and all. -Andy Royer --WebTV-Mail-16726-600-- from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Fri Jan 18 22:23:48 2002 g0J4NlW06720 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:23:47 -0600 Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:31:08 -0500 chris mitchell Subject: Re: Software Loaded On Your Computer Without Premission? Yes, and since it is the only firewall out there worth a tinker's damnit isthe one everyone's trying to defeat. The others are easy. Fortunately,sinceit is number one the people who make it work to keep it number one, andstayon top of all this crap. M-D ZoneAlarm by itself won't prevent you from receiving, installing, orexecuting adware applications. What it will do, is warn you if a programtries to access the internet, thereby allowing you to take action to remove the adware. There are applications that work specifically on adware, some of these are quite often bundled with the ZoneAlarm full version promotions.And of course, just to keep things interesting for us, some of the recentworms attempt to work around ZoneAlarm's protection. ZA is such apopularpersonal firewall, it is an easy target. Larry Blan from EM11EM22@aol.com Sat Jan 19 02:56:42 2002 g0J8ufW10485 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 02:56:41 -0600 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 03:56:29 - Subject: Re: Macro photo rod parts Bob:I have been a professional photog and teacher for 30 years, 95% of my commercial work has been on slide film (unless it was a black and white assignment). But times are a changing.......... and I am looking at digital cameras to see what is best for me.It depends on your photo needs.................. as to how much mega pixels you require.This is what I have learned................. so far.............Rule of Thumb (part 1)1 to 2 mega pixel cameras make photo quality prints from 3x5 inches to 5x7 inches.2 to 3 mega pixels make up to 8x10 inch photo quality prints.5 mega pixel make up to 11x14 inch photo quality prints.( you need a good photo quality printer to do the above printing )If your photo images are only for web / internet use, 1, 2, or 3 mega pixel is fine, but if you want high resolution 11x14 prints for gallery shows, then 5+ mega pixels is the way to go. (along with the memory to shoot dozens of high rez photos for a photo assignment)Rule of Thumb (part 2)Just when I learned all the answers, "they" went and changed all the questions! There probably are some 1 to 3 mega pixel cameras, along with certain printers, that give great 8x10 photo quality results........... but I don't know which do.(If any of this information is wrong, please tell me, I would love to learn more!) The 35 mm image produced on film would not be "a lesser effect" if you havea good conventional camera, and PhotoShop in your computer, and are trainedin PhotoShop, and shoot slide film, then you can make "huge" photo quality prints. Except the roll of professional slide film will cost nearly $30 to buy and process, and yes, that would be costly....... Regards,Edward Miller(on the west coast) In a message dated 1/18/02 5:48:12 PM, bob@downandacross.com writes: from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Jan 19 05:03:21 2002 g0JB3JW11681 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 05:03:19 -0600 g0JB3BV89435; Subject: Re: Curing varnish with UV Yoy know, you fellers are are really sarcastic deep down aren't you? Kind of restores my faith, actually! Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Jan 19 05:09:56 2002 g0JB9tW11954 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 05:09:55 -0600 g0JB9iV90109; Subject: Re: Rod Length Question Jim I really doubt that in that situation the answer is as simple as a fasteraction rod. Peter from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Jan 19 05:54:39 2002 g0JBsXW12556 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 05:54:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Length Question In a message dated 1/19/02 5:10:39 AM Central Standard Time, petermckean@netspace.net.au writes: nor of course, is it merely length! To use a useful quote, "Size isn't everything" Or as a good friend and collegue in magic once said, "It's not the size of the magic wand, it is the skill of the magician!" You may as well attribute it to Harry Potter as to anyone else. mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Jan 19 06:55:20 2002 g0JCtHW13141 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 06:55:18 -0600 Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:56:38 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Macro photo rod parts Edward, Bob and list,Be careful of these companies claims of "photoquality" at such and such a size. "Photo quality" is a very subjective matter.Many of the lower end cameras will print 4x6 prints reasonably but even topushthem to 5x7 makes most of the images start to fall apart.A good printer and good photo paper is paramount as well. There areinkjetprinters out now at a reasonable price that will do as good (in some casesbetter) a job as our Dye Sublimation ($$$$) printers at work will do. Epsonevenmakes an injet photo printer that will print photos from 4x6, 5x7, and 8x10rollsof paper. They do a very nice job.As for camera resolution, avoid cameras that only allow you to save thefileas a jpeg, look for one that will allow you to use Tif format (the jpeg formatmakes a small file but at a loss of image quality, good for card storage butnotso good for top quality images) This is one reason a Pro SLR Digital 2.2 MPcamera (like the Nikon D1 or DCS720X) using Tif format will take a farsuperiorpicture over a point and shoot 3MP camera using jpeg.Digital cameras are allot like slide film, meaning they are much more pickyabout proper exposure than print film which is fairly forgiving of sloppyexposure. "Experts in the field have speculated that a digital camera wouldrequire approximately 30MP to match film quality.At work we currently have16 MPdigital Pro backs for our Hasselblad medium format cameras that takeincredibleshots paired with a quality printer produce beautiful prints, even portraits.Unfortunately at $32,000 (not including the camera and lens to put the backonto!) they are out of most of our price ranges ;^(A good conventional (film) camera and negative/slide scanner is a goodoptionas well, not the cheapest but nice just the same. prints at a lower cost than any digital camera all factors taken into account.Where digital cameras shine is when you 1)don't need prints, 2)need imagesimmediately, 3)use the images for internet,4)want free film, 5)want tomanipulatethe image, or want to be able to make the same image color or Black andwhite.Digital photography is a god send to photojournalists! enjoy, Shawn EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: Bob:I have been a professional photog and teacher for 30 years, 95% of mycommercial work has been on slide film (unless it was a black and whiteassignment). But times are a changing.......... and I am looking at digitalcameras to see what is best for me.It depends on your photo needs.................. as to how much mega pixelsyou require.This is what I have learned................. so far.............Rule of Thumb (part 1)1 to 2 mega pixel cameras make photo quality prints from 3x5 inches to5x7inches.2 to 3 mega pixels make up to 8x10 inch photo quality prints.5 mega pixel make up to 11x14 inch photo quality prints.( you need a good photo quality printer to do the above printing )If your photo images are only for web / internet use, 1, 2, or 3 mega pixelis fine, but if you want high resolution 11x14 prints for gallery shows, then5+ mega pixels is the way to go. (along with the memory to shoot dozensofhigh rez photos for a photo assignment)Rule of Thumb (part 2)Just when I learned all the answers, "they" went and changed all thequestions! There probably are some 1 to 3 mega pixel cameras, along with certainprinters, that give great 8x10 photo quality results........... but I don'tknow which do.(If any of this information is wrong, please tell me, I would love to learnmore!) do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would be too costly to produce alesser effect.>> The 35 mm image produced on film would not be "a lesser effect" if youhave agood conventional camera, and PhotoShop in your computer, and aretrained inPhotoShop, and shoot slide film, then you can make "huge" photo qualityprints. Except the roll of professional slide film will cost nearly $30 tobuy and process, and yes, that would be costly.......Regards,Edward Miller(on the west coast) In a message dated 1/18/02 5:48:12 PM, bob@downandacross.com writes: other day. I really wanted to get something with the ability to do goodmacro photos. My Kodak DC240 has only a 1.3 megapixel lens. The salesguywasconvinced that I needed at least 3 megapixels ($599+)to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would be too costly to produce alesser effect. I would like to know the best route to go. Also, I have notseen any responses to you, and I would be interested in your eventualsetup.Thanks,Bob >> from mrmac@tcimet.net Sat Jan 19 08:00:30 2002 g0JE0SW13861 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:00:29 -0600 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:22:54 -0500 Subject: Art of Angling Journal WOW! BIG thank you to whomever it was on the list that recommended thisnew"magazine". My issue came this week and it truly is stunning in thepictures (and even the ads!) it has. Very nice article about DarrylWhitehead, as well as pictures of several of his rods - all *very*, *very*,nice. I doubt you can just pick it up at the news store, but if you can,you ought to - it's lovely work. Lots and lots of beautiful Atlantic Salmonflies pictured (and others, also), and articles about the folks that tiedand used them. Some of those flies are just flat out dropdead gorgeous. Ican see where to go if and when bamboo rods get dull and boring. Hard to believe, though, that people would actually throw thoseexquisite creations into the water - and just for a stinky ole fish. makesya wonder........... Unfortunately, no commissions, financial interest, yadayadaydada and allthat stuff. best to ya's. mac from bob@downandacross.com Sat Jan 19 08:52:16 2002 g0JEqFW16027 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:52:15 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Ralph:I agree that it is a fine publication. I was shocked at how nice it was for$10. As for the Whitehead article, don't you mean pictures of the engraver'swork? Just kidding, but I see a rush on engravers services in an effort forguys to hit the $3000 mark. Do you think that guys actually fish those rods?I have to laugh when he said he still fishes his Phillipson and doesn't ownone of his own rods. Ain't that the truth?My big mistake is always keeping my rod blanks that are "seconds" and thengetting caught on stream by someboday asking who made that? I going tostartsigning someone else's name to these rods! They're not that bad by anymeans, but I need to keep one or two that I finish out as nice as the fewsale rods I do.Bob -----Original Message----- Very nice article about DarrylWhitehead, as well as pictures of several of his rods - all *very*, *very*,nice. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 19 08:57:23 2002 g0JEvNW16322 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:57:23 -0600 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:57:12 - Subject: reelseat router bit advice Hi Guys, I was thinking of trying to make a reelseat mortise along the line of REC's rounded profile. I've used the 1 inch 1/2 radius bit recommended, but wantto try to do without the rails. Can anybody save me some time in searching and be able to recommend a bitand a source? Tanks in advance, Rob Hoffhines from flyfish@gbronline.com Sat Jan 19 09:12:22 2002 g0JFCLW16758 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:12:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Art of Angling Journal I'd agree-I got my copy this past week and I can't decide if I want to read it afew times, or just keep it in the plastic. It's almost too nice to open andbend the pages. My thanks to whoever recommended it, sorry I can't remember who it was! Apleasant surprise for $10! Ralph MacKenzie wrote: WOW! BIG thank you to whomever it was on the list that recommended thisnew"magazine". My issue came this week and it truly is stunning in thepictures (and even the ads!) it has. Very nice article about DarrylWhitehead, as well as pictures of several of his rods - all *very*, *very*,nice. I doubt you can just pick it up at the news store, but if you can,you ought to - it's lovely work. Lots and lots of beautiful Atlantic Salmonflies pictured (and others, also), and articles about the folks that tiedand used them. Some of those flies are just flat out dropdead gorgeous. Ican see where to go if and when bamboo rods get dull and boring. right!> Hard to believe, though, that people would actually throw thoseexquisite creations into the water - and just for a stinky ole fish. makesya wonder........... Unfortunately, no commissions, financial interest, yadayadaydada and allthat stuff. best to ya's. mac from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Sat Jan 19 09:57:15 2002 g0JFvEW17477 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:57:14 -0600 Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:57:16 -0500 Subject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Hi, If you like the mag you should have gone to the University Fly Fishing show. journal from Ingrid Sils and was able to spend sometime talking to her, veryinteresting lady. She was kind enough to sign this first issue and I haveadded it to my library. I think this is a must read and should be added toyour subscription list. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Ralph:I agree that it is a fine publication. I was shocked at how nice it was for$10. As for the Whitehead article, don't you mean pictures of the engraver'swork? Just kidding, but I see a rush on engravers services in an effort forguys to hit the $3000 mark. Do you think that guys actually fish those rods?I have to laugh when he said he still fishes his Phillipson and doesn't ownone of his own rods. Ain't that the truth?My big mistake is always keeping my rod blanks that are "seconds" and thengetting caught on stream by someboday asking who made that? I going tostartsigning someone else's name to these rods! They're not that bad by anymeans, but I need to keep one or two that I finish out as nice as the fewsale rods I do.Bob from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Sat Jan 19 11:25:04 2002 g0JHP3W19111 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:25:03 -0600 Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:25:05 -0500 Subject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Hi Richard, Here is there URL http://www.artofangling.com glad I could help, take care,Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Art of Angling Journal Tim: would you be kind enough to send the Journal's e-mail address or URL tome. I would like to subscribe. Thanks and best regards, Richard Tyree from harms1@pa.net Sat Jan 19 11:53:26 2002 g0JHrPW23687 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:53:25 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Art of Angling Journal I too was very impressed by Whithead's work in the magazine. But I wonderabout the wisdom of engraving a ferrule--particularly the sleeve of thefemale. I do a bit of engraving, but I have always been reluctant to try myhand at a ferrule. Engraving actually ploughs fine lines in the metal, andI would worry about compromising the strength of the wall. It seems to methat there isn't much to play with in the first place. Does anyone happen to know if these ferrules may have been madesomewhatoversized? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Ralph:I agree that it is a fine publication. I was shocked at how nice it was for $10. As for the Whitehead article, don't you mean pictures of the engraver's work? Just kidding, but I see a rush on engravers services in an effort for guys to hit the $3000 mark. Do you think that guys actually fish those rods? I have to laugh when he said he still fishes his Phillipson and doesn't own one of his own rods. Ain't that the truth?My big mistake is always keeping my rod blanks that are "seconds" andthengetting caught on stream by someboday asking who made that? I going to start signing someone else's name to these rods! They're not that bad by anymeans, but I need to keep one or two that I finish out as nice as the fewsale rods I do.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Very nice article about DarrylWhitehead, as well as pictures of several of his rods - all *very*, *very*, nice. from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Sat Jan 19 12:00:03 2002 g0JI03W24184 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:00:03 -0600 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:00:04 -0500 Subject: Ultra Violet damage to finishes Hi, Isn't U.V. the nemesis of all finishes and what does curing it with U.V. doto the life of the finish? Maybe someone who has knowledge or works in theindustry can enlighten us. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from rmoon@ida.net Sat Jan 19 12:05:09 2002 g0JI58W24418 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:05:08 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Art of Angling Journal BillA number of the classic rod makers engraved their ferrules. I think thatHirumLeonard was the first. I have some reservations, myself, but not from thepointof strength. It seems to me to be gilding the lily a bit. Like putting diamondstudded headlight surrounds on a Rolls Royce. RalphWILLIAM HARMS wrote: I too was very impressed by Whithead's work in the magazine. But I wonderabout the wisdom of engraving a ferrule--particularly the sleeve of thefemale. I do a bit of engraving, but I have always been reluctant to try myhand at a ferrule. Engraving actually ploughs fine lines in the metal, andI would worry about compromising the strength of the wall. It seems to methat there isn't much to play with in the first place. Does anyone happen to know if these ferrules may have been madesomewhatoversized? cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Maulucci" Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 9:23 AMSubject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Ralph:I agree that it is a fine publication. I was shocked at how nice it was for $10. As for the Whitehead article, don't you mean pictures of the engraver's work? Just kidding, but I see a rush on engravers services in an effort for guys to hit the $3000 mark. Do you think that guys actually fish those rods? I have to laugh when he said he still fishes his Phillipson and doesn't own one of his own rods. Ain't that the truth?My big mistake is always keeping my rod blanks that are "seconds" andthengetting caught on stream by someboday asking who made that? I going to start signing someone else's name to these rods! They're not that bad by anymeans, but I need to keep one or two that I finish out as nice as the fewsale rods I do.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu MacKenzie Very nice article about DarrylWhitehead, as well as pictures of several of his rods - all *very*, *very*, nice. from splitcane@attbi.com Sat Jan 19 12:05:33 2002 g0JI5WW24468 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:05:32 -0600 Subject: Special Group Purchase Reel Seats Hello List, I came across a deal I could not pass up and thought I wouldpass it on to the list at my cost while it's still available... Pacific Bay Wood Reel Seats at 75% off retail, there is a good selection ofover 600 seats available now but once they hit the open market they will gofast... Check out this link for details... http://home.attbi.com/~denverdaveinc2/REELSEAT.html If interested please respond OFF LIST and I will personally secure yourorder... PS, I will be unavailable 1/27/02 thru 2/10/02 ( Baja On The Fly ) * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * *-------- ----------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------- -----* * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------* * * * * * * * * * --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------" United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net from robertgkope@attbi.com Sat Jan 19 12:22:30 2002 g0JIMTW25275 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:22:29 -0600 Subject: Montagne's design theories So far, I've stayed out of the discussions on Montagne's theories. I =don't think there is an optimal taper for all casters in all situations. =However, his ideas about rectangular rod sections make a lot of sense. = restorative force with less strain on the fibers than with a square or =hex section. The real problems with building these sections are in =matching triangular and trapezoidal strips, and in designing the tapers. =With rectangular sections you also have the problem of fragile edges on =the strips because of the 45 degree angles. You could always build a =wider hexagonal section to circumvent this problem, but are still faced =with the problem of matching triangular and trapezoidal strips. =Tapering strips should be easy for either hexs or quads on the Morgan =handmill. However, all of the construction problems (except for hollowbuilding) =disappear with PMQ construction. Rectangular sections are no more =difficult than square sections if you build with only 2 strips. You =also have no angles less than 90 degrees. I'd like to give this a try, =but I don't have any idea how to develop a taper for a flattened quad. =I suppose you could do it by trial and error by gluing up sections, =using a scarf joint for a ferrule and then modifying the width of =sections to adjust the action. I know that some have converted hex =tapers to square quads by using the same cross-sectional area at each =station, but I don't think this will work going from square to =rectangular. Can any of you engineers out there tell me how to convert a hex taper to =an asymmetric quad? ( I promise I won't laugh out loud at the next =engineer joke posted to the list ;^) -- Robert Kope So far, I've stayed out of = wider, you can get the same restorative force with less strain on the = always build a wider hexagonal section to circumvent this problem, but = faced with the problem of matching triangular and trapezoidal = handmill. However, all of the construction = sections are no more difficult than square sections if you build with = hex tapers to square quads by using the same cross-sectional area at = rectangular. Can any of you engineers out there tell= loud at the next engineer joke posted to the list ;^) -- Robert =Kope from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Sat Jan 19 14:14:09 2002 g0JKE8W27295 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:14:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Montagne's design theories Now that would be interesting. The benefits of a rectangular section =but with a 2 strip design. I think Bob Nunley has done a 2 stip rod and = What aspect ratio would be the best (ratio of cross section height to = Would the aspect ratio vary from butt to tip? I'll have to re-read the =Montagne interview here.How do you get a tip top on these things? I have some 5' strips sitting around - I just might have to experiment = -----Original Message-----From: Robert Kope Subject: Montagne's design theories So far, I've stayed out of the discussions on Montagne's theories. =I don't think there is an optimal taper for all casters in all =situations. However, his ideas about rectangular rod sections make a =lot of sense. For openers, by making the rod section wider, you can get =the same restorative force with less strain on the fibers than with a =square or hex section. The real problems with building these sections =are in matching triangular and trapezoidal strips, and in designing the =tapers. With rectangular sections you also have the problem of fragile =edges on the strips because of the 45 degree angles. You could always =build a wider hexagonal section to circumvent this problem, but are =still faced with the problem of matching triangular and trapezoidal =strips. Tapering strips should be easy for either hexs or quads on the =Morgan handmill. However, all of the construction problems (except for =hollowbuilding) disappear with PMQ construction. Rectangular sections =are no more difficult than square sections if you build with only 2 =strips. You also have no angles less than 90 degrees. I'd like to give =this a try, but I don't have any idea how to develop a taper for a =flattened quad. I suppose you could do it by trial and error by gluing =up sections, using a scarf joint for a ferrule and then modifying the =width of sections to adjust the action. I know that some have converted =hex tapers to square quads by using the same cross-sectional area at =each station, but I don't think this will work going from square to =rectangular. Can any of you engineers out there tell me how to convert a hex =taper to an asymmetric quad? ( I promise I won't laugh out loud at the =next engineer joke posted to the list ;^) -- Robert Kope Now that would be Nunley has done a 2 stip rod and will perhaps comment on the = What aspect ratio would be thebest = Would the aspect ratio vary from= here.How doyou get = these things? I have some 5' strips sitting around - I just might = -----Original = Saturday, January 19, 2002 12:31 PMSubject: = theoriesSo far, I've stayed out of the = wider, you can get the same restorative force with less strain on = this problem, but are still faced with the problem of matching = or quads on the Morgan handmill. However, all of the construction = Rectangular sections are no more difficult than square sections if = trial and error by gluing up sections, using a scarf joint = quads by using the same cross-sectional area at each station, but I = think this will work going from square to rectangular. Can any of you engineers out there = laugh out loud at the next engineer joke posted to the list =;^) Kope from DNHayashida@aol.com Sat Jan 19 15:33:18 2002 g0JLXHW28997 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:33:17 -0600 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:33:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Montagne's design theories The best thing I can tell you, is to soak your strips overnight or longer. You can really hog the cane off when they are wet. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Jan 20 22:34:41 2002 g0L4YeW29126 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:34:40 -0600 (63.228.45.211) Subject: Re: rod bag and tube Lisa Bardole from Libby Montana (a small cottage industry) makes some =great cases with individual compartments for tips. cordura outside, =leather trim if ordered, embroidered name if ordered. heavy plastic =innertube. Very resonable. Neat reel cases too.bardoleusa@lclink.com no interest etc.Dave-- ---Original Message-----From: Mark & Kathy Pohl Subject: rod bag and tube I'm almost finished with my first bamboo fly rod and I need a bag =and a case. Whers's a good place to get a thick walled tube and a good = Lisa Bardole from Libby Montana(a = industry) makes some great cases with individual compartments for tips. = outside, leather trim if ordered, embroidered name if ordered. heavy = interest etc.Dave -----Original = =RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu = Sunday, January 20, 2002 4:09 PMSubject: rod bag tubeI'm almost finished with my first = from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Jan 20 22:46:59 2002 g0L4kxW29577 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:46:59 - (63.228.45.211) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Handmill I made a Medved beveler but don't use it anymore. By soaking my strips I canrough bevel with the mill at less tha 6 minutes per strip. I averaged12strips the other day at 5.5 minutes. I wrecked a strip now and then with thebeveler but have never wrecked one with the mill. Each rough strip comes outthe same on the mill after which I restraighten any nodes that need it bindtightly and heat treat. They really come out of the oven nice.Dave-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Handmill In a message dated 01/20/2002 6:00:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,wlwalter77us@yahoo.com writes: Is anyone doing their roughing on their MHM? Was >> Bill,The best thing I can tell you, is to soak your stripsovernight or longer. You can really hog the cane off when theyare wet. Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sun Jan 20 23:15:19 2002 g0L5FIW00372 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 23:15:18 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Cork order Im getting ready to do a Cork order this week from corkgrips.com So ifanybody interested email me off list.. Thanks Daverodwrapp@swbell.nethttp://www.geocities.com/davesrods Im getting ready to do a Cork order thisweek from Daverodwrapp@swbell.nethttp://www.geocities.com/davesrods from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Jan 21 08:21:39 2002 g0LELcW06301 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:21:38 -0600 Mon, 21 Jan 2002 06:21:27 -0800 Subject: Re: Montagne's design theories FILETIME=[E9FF8900:01C1A286] Mike,My final report will be in the next Planing Form. I waited until after t=he SRG to complete it. Thanks for asking. If nothing else, I think it p=rovides some base line data for future experimentation. ----- Original Message ----- RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Montagne's design theories john,ah, the grand experiement rods. i remember it well. i know that a lo=t of information was gathered and most of it was rather subjective, but w=ill there be a report sometime on the results of the "Grand Experiment" i=tself? Mike, My final des some base line data for future experimentation. robertgkope@attbi.com; ROD= the grand experiement rods. i remember it well. i know that a lot of inf=ormation was gathered and most of it was rather subjective, but will ther= = from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Mon Jan 21 11:04:38 2002 g0LH4bW10303 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:04:37 - for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:04:36 -0500 Subject: TEST: TEST: Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan 21 11:07:45 2002 g0LH7iW10527 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:07:44 - "Rodmakers Info" Subject: RE: TEST: Think it is just slow. Must be the holiday. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: TEST: TEST: Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Mon Jan 21 11:14:57 2002 g0LHEuW10975 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:14:56 - Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:14:58 -0500 Subject: Repost and Thanks: Hi Bob,Thanks for the reply. I will repost my U.V question, maybe a good time to doit. Is Ultra Violet light good as a catalyst for finish? This is the onething that over time does in any rods finish. Just wondering, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: RE: TEST: Think it is just slow. Must be the holiday. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: TEST: TEST: Upstream Always, Tim Doughty Rod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan 21 11:41:15 2002 g0LHfEW11741 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:41:14 - "Rodmakers Info" Subject: RE: Repost and Thanks: I do not honestly know, but it does make the finish hard enough to polish ina few days of exposure.Bob -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:20 PM Subject: Repost and Thanks: Hi Bob,Thanks for the reply. I will repost my U.V question, maybe a good time todo it. Is Ultra Violet light good as a catalyst for finish? This is theone thing that over time does in any rods finish. Just wondering, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: RE: TEST: Think it is just slow. Must be the holiday. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: TEST: TEST: Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 21 11:54:07 2002 g0LHs6W12393 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:54:06 - (authenticated) Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:54:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Bob, Tim, I'm talking over my head here, but that's not unusual. One of mycustomers is a specialist in Show Carfinishes. He tells me that there are some relatively new two part urethanefinishes which are designed tocure very quickly (minutes?) with UV exposure. But the UV he talks about isdifferent wavelengths from whatwe get with ordinary blacklights.When I asked him about using blacklights on spar, he seemed to think thatalthough it wouldn't hurt thefinish in small doses, it would not cause it to cure significantly more quickly.I can't remember which company, either Merrick Tackle or Amtak I think,but there is a new UV system forwrap finishes on graphite rods. Apply the finish, put it in a special oven, andseconds later, voila, youhave finished wraps. Sounds interesting, but I don't think it's appropriate forthe finish on an entirerod. Trying to remember if there was a review of the product in the lastRodmaker Magazine??? Again, I'm just repeating what I've been told, and that's dangerous. Perhaps those of us who are reallyinterested might consider calling the Tech Support people for the particularfinishes we are using. Patiently waiting a few days between coats,Harry Bob Maulucci wrote: I do not honestly know, but it does make the finish hard enough to polish ina few days of exposure. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Mon Jan 21 11:57:53 2002 g0LHvqW12679 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:57:52 - JAA15096 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:57:40 - LAA06792 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:57:39 - g0LHvq226370 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:57:52 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:57:38 -0800 Subject: spring Is anybody out there from New Hampshire? I'm going there in April to take aWindsor chair making class from Mike Dunbar and was wondering what tobringin the way of clothes. Is it still winter or is it warm enough for shortsleeves? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from bob@downandacross.com Mon Jan 21 12:01:59 2002 g0LI1xW13059 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:01:59 - "Rodmakers Info" Subject: RE: Repost and Thanks: Interesting Harry. I am not really using it to speed up the process all thetime, just trying it in a pinch here and there, and it does seem to work.Maybe it is my inexperience with spar, but I had always thought you neededto wait weeks to polish. The finish I am using (ProSpar) cures in a matterof 24-48 hours in the black light. It polishes up so nicely, I don't worryabout much anymore.John, are you out there?Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Bob, Tim, I'm talking over my head here, but that's not unusual. One ofmy customers is a specialist in Show Carfinishes. He tells me that there are some relatively new two parturethane finishes which are designed tocure very quickly (minutes?) with UV exposure. But the UV he talksabout is different wavelengths from whatwe get with ordinary blacklights.When I asked him about using blacklights on spar, he seemed tothink that although it wouldn't hurt thefinish in small doses, it would not cause it to cure significantlymore quickly. from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 21 12:17:07 2002 g0LIH6W13739 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:17:07 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: spring Patrick, Flannel shirts don't come in short sleeves. The temperature is variable here. As Mark Twain said "God madeeverythingin the universe except New England weather. That he assigned to a crewof apprentice weathermakers and they try their whole repetoire on thesame day." (Paraphrased) Last April was dry and sunny, usually it is quite wet. Go figure. Think50-60 degrees.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Is anybody out there from New Hampshire? I'm going there in April to take aWindsor chair making class from Mike Dunbar and was wondering what to bringin the way of clothes. Is it still winter or is it warm enough for shortsleeves? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 . -- Best regards, Reed > from tedknott@cogeco.ca Mon Jan 21 12:33:23 2002 g0LIXMW14352 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 From: "Ted" Cc: ,"Rodmakers Info" References: Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Date: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN During the bright summermonths I hang the freshly dipped sections on the clothes line. Thecombination of air, natural ultraviolet light and warmth hardens the finish inone day. > from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Jan 21 12:47:03 2002 Received: g0LIl3W14909 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 , "Harry Boyd" , "Bob Maulucci"Cc: ,"RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Repost and MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1702 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------ john ----- Original Message ----- From: Ted Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; Rodmakers Info Subject: Re: Repost andThanks: During the bright summer months I hang the freshly dipped sectionson the clothes line. The combination of air, natural ultraviolet light andwarmth hardens the finish in one day. ------ Ted, The air is obviously much cleaner in bob@downandacross.com Cc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; Rodmake= rsInfo Subject: Re: Repost = combinatio= n of air, natural ultraviolet light and warmthhardens thefinish in o= ne day. ------ Mon Jan 21 15:05:47 2002 Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com 2002 13:07:22 -0800 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept- Subject: Need a coupla favors Content-Type: fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENFriends, I'm writing a few articles and need some pictures to help illustratethose things. Might any of you have some pictures of heat gun type ovens, orpics of ovens other than the Cattanach type, which you would be willing toshare? If so, please respond off list. One more thing -- I'd like to borrow a setof swiss files like those used in fitting ferrules. Again, I'll be taking picturesof them for a different article, and will return them within just a few days. Iknow this is a lot to ask, so thanks for your indulgence. Harry -- Harry Boydhttp://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ OurChurch > from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 21 16:51:01 2002 22:50:55 +0000 Message-ID:From: "Steven Subject: test Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part message printable test ------ bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 21 16:58:52 2002 Received: from g0LMwpW08002 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 Received: from (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) 19:02:31 -0500 From: Shawn Pineo Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods X- Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X- , Harry Boyd , Bob Maulucci, rodsupstream@exploremaine.com,RodmakersPost Subject: Re: Repost andThanks: References: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -------------- Shawn John Long wrote: Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner in Canada.... john ----- Original Message -----From: TedSent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:41 PM Cc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; Rodmakers InfoSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks:During the bright summer months I hang the freshly dippedsections on theclothes line. The combination of air, natural ultravioletlight and warmthhardens the finish in one day. --------------49D8E81D5DDB051C09743F95 Beer's better too! Couldn't help myself ;^) ShawnJohn Long wrote:Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner in ----- Original Message ----- From:Ted Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:41PM bob@downandacross.com Cc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com;Rodmakers Info Subject: Re: Repost andThanks: on the and warmthhardens the finish in one day. --------------49D8E81D5DDB051C09743F95-- from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Mon Jan 21 17:14:56 2002 g0LNEtW09407 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:14:55 - Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:14:54 PST Subject: Re: Macro photo rod parts Since I work around Graphic Designers, Photographers,Advertising and Marketing agencies I've been askedabout the quality of digital cameras. A lot of peopledon't like my answer and it really depends on whatyour final needs are...but here it is: 1) Nothing in the digital realm comes close to LargeFormat film (4 X 5) transparencies. This is still whatanybody who is really serious about image qualityuses. I can almost guarantee this is what Orvis,Winston and any number of other rod companies used fortheir catalogs. 2) 35mm Slide Film produces much better results thanany digital camera on the market (priced under$10,000). It's also more cost effective than 4 X 5transparencies. Of course, as Ed mentions you do need to scantransparencies and slides as well as know a bit aboutusing Photoshop. It does seem that digital cameras are designed bytechies and not photographers. They lack a lot of thefeatures a film camera would give such as control offlash, exposure, metering and such. I have been using a new Canon PowerShot G2 (4megapixel) for the last few weeks. It takes very largephotos, shows better detail than most other digitalcameras I've used but still doesn't come close to aslide. What's really infuriating is dealing with aflash that you can't control. Anyway, for a good read visit:http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/digicam.htm Best Regards,Chris --- EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: Bob:I have been a professional photog and teacher for 30years, 95% of my commercial work has been on slide film (unless itwas a black and white assignment). But times are a changing.......... andI am looking at digital cameras to see what is best for me.It depends on your photo needs.................. asto how much mega pixels you require.This is what I have learned................. sofar.............Rule of Thumb (part 1)1 to 2 mega pixel cameras make photo quality prints from 3x5 inches to 5x7 inches.2 to 3 mega pixels make up to 8x10 inch photoquality prints.5 mega pixel make up to 11x14 inch photo qualityprints.( you need a good photo quality printer to do theabove printing )If your photo images are only for web / internetuse, 1, 2, or 3 mega pixel is fine, but if you want high resolution 11x14prints for gallery shows, then 5+ mega pixels is the way to go. (along with thememory to shoot dozens of high rez photos for a photo assignment)Rule of Thumb (part 2)Just when I learned all the answers, "they" went andchanged all the questions! There probably are some 1 to 3 mega pixel cameras,along with certain printers, that give great 8x10 photo qualityresults........... but I don't know which do.(If any of this information is wrong, please tellme, I would love to learn more!) 3 megapixels ($599+) to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would be toocostly to produce a lesser effect.>> The 35 mm image produced on film would not be "alesser effect" if you have a good conventional camera, and PhotoShop in yourcomputer, and are trained in PhotoShop, and shoot slide film, then you can make"huge" photo quality prints. Except the roll of professional slide filmwill cost nearly $30 to buy and process, and yes, that would becostly....... Regards,Edward Miller(on the west coast) In a message dated 1/18/02 5:48:12 PM,bob@downandacross.com writes: a new digital camera theother day. I really wanted to get something with theability to do goodmacro photos. My Kodak DC240 has only a 1.3megapixel lens. The salesguy wasconvinced that I needed at least 3 megapixels($599+)to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would betoo costly to produce alesser effect. I would like to know the best routeto go. Also, I have notseen any responses to you, and I would be interestedin your eventual setup.Thanks,Bob >> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 21 17:29:28 2002 g0LNTSW10126 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:29:28 - Subject: Vest for child Hello All, Does anyone know of a place I can find a fly fishing vest for a three =year old. I casually told my three year old grandson that I would get =him one and he told me today "Remember Grandpa, in march you are going = T-Rex". His birthday is in March and dinosaurs are his other passion. =TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Hello All, Does anyone know of a place I can find= fishing vest for a three year old. I casually told my three year old = that I would get him one and he told me today "Remember Grandpa, in = are going to get me a vest and a T-Rex". His birthday is in March and = his other passion. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, =MO If you care to check in the archives, I have already made a 5 ft. one piece rectangular quad rod. I really like it for small brushy overgrown streams. It's the most accurate casting rod I have made so far. I haven't made a longer or multipiece rectangular quad yet, but I will sometime in the future. It wasn't a 2 strip quad it was a ordinary 4 strip. The aspect ratio that I used was a bit extreme - 3 to 5 with the stress calculated on the short dimemsion. The rod turned out to be stiffer than the stress curve would lead me to believe, but that made sense since the "extra" fibers in long dimemsion would also contribute to the stiffness. My opinion on rectangular rods? They are okay, gives me something to experiment on, but they aren't earth shattering or anything revolutionary in fly rods.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 1/19/02 12:15:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, kurt.clement@flashmail.com writes: Now that would be interesting. The benefits of a rectangular section but with a 2 strip design. I think Bob Nunley has done a 2 stip rod and will perhaps comment on the manufacture. What aspect ratio would be the best (ratio of cross section height to width)? Would the aspect ratio vary from butt to tip? I'll have to re-read the Montagne interview here.How do you get a tip top on these things?I have some 5' strips sitting around - I just might have to experimentwith a 1 piece If youcare to check in the archives, I have already made a 5 ft. one piecerectangular quad rod. I really like it for small brushy overgrown streams. It'sthe most accurate casting rod I have made so far. I haven't made a longer ormultipiece rectangular quad yet, but I will sometime in the future. It wasn't a2 strip quad it was a ordinary 4 strip. The aspect ratio that I used was a bit extreme - 3 to 5 with the stresscalculated on the short dimemsion. The rod turned out to be stiffer than thestress curve would lead me to believe, but that made sense since the "extra"fibers in long dimemsion would also contribute to the stiffness. My opinion on rectangular rods? They are okay, gives me something toexperiment on, but they aren't earth shattering or anything revolutionary infly rods.Darryl Hayashida In a message dated 1/19/02 12:15:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,kurt.clement@flashmail.com writes:Now that would be What aspect ratio would Would the aspect ratio here.How do you get a tip topon these things? I have some 5' stripssitting around - I just might have to experiment with a 1 piece from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Jan 19 17:03:49 2002 g0JN3mW00706 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:03:48 -0600 19 Jan 2002 15:03:34 PST Subject: English / Scot Bamboo Salmon Fly rods http://www.geocities.com/macsrods/Farlow.htmlhttp://www.geocities.com/macsrods/RSSPECIAL.htmlThe above 2 URLS take you to 2 beautiful Salmon BambooFly rods . Mr Wilson is looking for more info and aestimate of worth . They are 1920s English anybodyknow any more ? any interest ? Anyone know collectorsin England or Scotland ? Salmon Fishers ? A friend (macsrods@yahoo.com) is selling them for MrWilson.I Have zero financial interest , just curiosityTIA __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from oakmere@carol.net Sat Jan 19 19:25:17 2002 g0K1PHW02610 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:25:17 -0600 g0K1M9a08498 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 20:22:13 -0500 Subject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Hi Folks: Could someone provide an address, telephone, or email where I can contactthe folks that publish this journal. Thanks in advance. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sat Jan 19 20:20:56 2002 g0K2KtW03628 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 20:20:55 -0600 Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:20:46 -0800 Subject: Re: mica strip heater question FILETIME=[1176BC80:01C1A159] What is the address of the company in Grand Rapids, MI that sells mica stripheaters? Thanks, Jeff from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Jan 19 20:53:04 2002 g0K2r3W04275 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 20:53:03 -0600 19 Jan 2002 18:53:02 PST Subject: Re: mica strip heater question Here's my research from 4-01If I had to do it all over again I would build an ovenwith a heat gun source - using convection - seearchives for details In the Sources you will find a listing for the micastrip heater -Grand Technologies - through a special agreement withWatlow - Jim and the folks at Greand are allowed tosell the heater outside of their normal sales area -and they stock it - or they should - So give them acall 616 - 656 - 0866 and just ask for the heater tomake bamboo rods with - they know exactly what you areasking for There is no need to put an order together - GrandTechnologies in Grand Rapids (my local large city)stocks (on the shelf) the strip heaters _ all you oranyone else interested in obtaining one has to do iscall them - 616-656- 0866 Dan or anyone there will beable to help you out - they should also havethermostats and high temp wire to complete the package- the last I heard the heaters were a little over $60 In looking at the 2001 Surplus Center catalog, theyhave listed on page 147 an Oven Thermostat Control,Item No. 11-2192, New, w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to500Ÿ F, rated 15 amp at 240 volts AC, instructionsincluded, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2", all for the low price of$12.95. Sorry, no URL, but the phone number is1-800-488-3407. They have many electrical motors,switches, hydraulics, gas and diesel engines, winches,etc. Call for a catalog. --- Jeff Schaeffer wrote: What is the address of the company in Grand Rapids,MI that sells mica stripheaters? Thanks, Jeff __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from lblan@provide.net Sat Jan 19 21:04:03 2002 g0K342W04567 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:04:03 -0600 Subject: RE: mica strip heater question Grand Technology (616)940-3345 Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:18 AM Subject: Re: mica strip heater question What is the address of the company in Grand Rapids, MI that sells mica stripheaters? Thanks, Jeff from channer@frontier.net Sat Jan 19 21:09:36 2002 g0K39ZW04834 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:09:36 -0600 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 20:09:38 -0700 Subject: Re: mica strip heater question included in the price.just a thoughtjohn Jeff Schaeffer wrote: What is the address of the company in Grand Rapids, MI that sells micastripheaters? Thanks, Jeff from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jan 19 21:39:34 2002 g0K3dXW05408 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:39:33 -0600 Subject: Re: reelseat router bit advice In a message dated 01/19/2002 9:58:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Nodewrrior@aol.com writes: Rob, I used to turn some of my fillers like that. This ishow I did it. I made a fixture to hold the filler, once it was turnedround, to dimension. But, instead of having center holes in each end, I made the "center" holes off set about .100in.. When you runthis in your lathe, it will rotate off center and only hit the onearea. You would remove around .080in. . That's all there was to it. Make up a fixture, with one fixed end, with a "drive pin" sticking out on the inside. This will keep the filler from turning in the fixture. Then, on the other end, make the piece with a hole in it, that will slide over the end of the shaft of the fixture. Drill a holethrough the end piece and into the shaft of the fixture. Tap the holein the shaft, so you can run a screw into the end and this willhold the end on and keep it from turning. This will also keep your"offset" centers in line with each other. Hope this helps, Dave http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sat Jan 19 22:03:03 2002 g0K432W05816 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:03:02 -0600 Subject: RE: Art of Angling Journal Hi Folks: Could someone provide an address, telephone, or email where I can contactthe folks that publish this journal. Thanks in advance. Best, Frank Hi, It's one year in the US for $35 at the following address: Art of Angling JournalPO Box 826Westborough, MA 01581 or 508-898-2990 Kat and David (NFI, of course) from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Sat Jan 19 23:37:31 2002 g0K5bTW07100 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 23:37:29 -0600 Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:37:24 -0800 Sun, 20 Jan 2002 05:37:23 GMT Subject: 7' 4wt emergency!!! FILETIME=[89A7FA50:01C1A174] Hello kids-I have to build a 7' 4wt for my big brother, and it has to be a nice smooth, deliberate dry-fly stick. (Maybe I can build him a 5 wt and call it a 4, that's what the plastic guys are doing!) It has to be a good one or he'll drive up from North Carolina and kick my butt. (He's got me by 75#!) I know taper tastes are subjective, but I hope you dig deep and throw me a taper you know and love from from personal experience.PLEASE!!!Soaking wet and both hands full of rocks I go 150! HELP!! I'll get beat like a left-handed orphen!!!Best,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Jan 20 07:03:15 2002 g0KD3EW10703 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:03:14 -0600 Sun, 20 Jan 2002 05:03:08 -0800 Subject: Re: Montagne's design theories FILETIME=[CECC4A30:01C1A1B2] Robert,Contact Bill Lamberson (he's on the list) about a rectangular rod. He di=d one for The Grand Exp. to Bill Waara's taper. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Montagne's design theories So far, I've stayed out of the discussions on Montagne's theories. I don='t think there is an optimal taper for all casters in all situations. Ho=wever, his ideas about rectangular rod sections make a lot of sense. For=openers, by making the rod section wider, you can get the same restorati=ve force with less strain on the fibers than with a square or hex section=. The real problems with building these sections are in matching triangu=lar and trapezoidal strips, and in designing the tapers. With rectangula=r sections you also have the problem of fragile edges on the strips becau=se of the 45 degree angles. You could always build a wider hexagonal sec=tion to circumvent this problem, but are still faced with the problem of =matching triangular and trapezoidal strips. Tapering strips should be ea=sy for either hexs or quads on the Morgan handmill. However, all of the construction problems (except for hollowbuilding) dis=appear with PMQ construction. Rectangular sections are no more difficult=than square sections if you build with only 2 strips. You also have no =angles less than 90 degrees. I'd like to give this a try, but I don't ha=ve any idea how to develop a taper for a flattened quad. I suppose you c=ould do it by trial and error by gluing up sections, using a scarf joint = on. I know that some have converted hex tapers to square quads by using =the same cross-sectional area at each station, but I don't think this wil=l work going from square to rectangular. Can any of you engineers out there tell me how to convert a hex taper to =an asymmetric quad? ( I promise I won't laugh out loud at the next engin=eer joke posted to the list ;^) -- Robert Kope Robert, Contact BillLamberson= Fro=m: Robert Kope Sent:Sat=urday, January 19, 2002 1:26 PM = So far, I've stayed out of he rod section wider, you can get the same restorative force with less st= ions you also have the problem of fragile edges on the strips because of = ion to circumvent this problem, but are still faced with the problem of m= e easy for either hexs or quads on the Morgan handmill. e no more difficult than square sections if you build with only 2 strips.= ve this a try, but I don't have any idea how to develop a taper for a fla= me have converted hex tapers to square quads by using the same cross- sect=ional area at each station, but I don't think this will work going from s= engineers =out there tell me how to convert a hex taper to an asymmetric ( I promise I won't laugh out loud at the next engineer joke posted to t= Kope from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 20 07:22:11 2002 g0KDMBW11044 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:22:11 - Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:23:33 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: 7' 4wt emergency!!! Eamon,I know you're probably going to get allot of the same answers on thisone so I'm going to go out on a limb and recommend something that may notgetmentioned.The Leonard 38 ACM, I made one for my Dad's 60th Birthday and it is asweet little rod, smooth, nice feel in the hand, very slight swell to the butt.I built it blonde but I think flaming may only improve this rod. I woulddescribe it as a medium fast dry fly rod that doesn't feel like one (it'ssmoothin other words).If you do build this rod I would be careful not to undercut it or youmight be looking at a 5 wt.Second choice would be a Payne 97.Good luck,ShawnEamon Lee wrote: Hello kids-I have to build a 7' 4wt for my big brother, and it has to be a nice smooth,deliberate dry-fly stick. (Maybe I can build him a 5 wt and call it a 4,that's what the plastic guys are doing!) It has to be a good one or he'lldrive up from North Carolina and kick my butt. (He's got me by 75#!) Iknowtaper tastes are subjective, but I hope you dig deep and throw me a taperyou know and love from from personal experience.PLEASE!!!Soaking wet and both hands full of rocks I go 150! HELP!! I'll get beat likea left-handed orphen!!!Best,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.http://www.hotmail.com from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Jan 20 07:35:36 2002 g0KDZZW11386 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:35:35 - Subject: Re: 7' 4wt emergency!!! In a message dated 1/19/02 11:38:12 PM Central Standard Time, eamon_lee@hotmail.com writes: Hmmm, i would LIKE to help, but have you looked into Karate schools lately? It's either that or a nice pair of Reboks!;-D mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Jan 20 08:26:10 2002 g0KEQ9W12376 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 08:26:10 - Subject: Re: 7' 4wt emergency!!! Eamon - Build him a Garrison 202E. If he doesn't like it, send him up to see me. I'm 6"1", 220 lbs and grew up in an Irish family. from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sun Jan 20 08:31:30 2002 g0KEVUW12883 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 08:31:30 - Sun, 20 Jan 2002 06:31:24 -0800 Subject: Re: 7' 4wt emergency!!! FILETIME=[23652060:01C1A1BF] The Dickerson 7012. I built that one as my second rod, and it turned out tobe a good taper. Fast, but not as extreme as some of Dickerson's othertapers. Great caster, and it fishes. I you are building a five to call a four, go with the Payne 98. I made one also a great casting rod. One that i have not built yet is the Sir D. Everyone raves about the taper,but I am not sure if one would call it a fast dry fly action. Jeff Schaeffer ----- Original Message ----- Subject: 7' 4wt emergency!!! Hello kids-I have to build a 7' 4wt for my big brother, and it has to be a nice smooth, deliberate dry-fly stick. (Maybe I can build him a 5 wt and call it a 4,that's what the plastic guys are doing!) It has to be a good one or he'lldrive up from North Carolina and kick my butt. (He's got me by 75#!) I know taper tastes are subjective, but I hope you dig deep and throw me a taperyou know and love from from personal experience.PLEASE!!!Soaking wet and both hands full of rocks I go 150! HELP!! I'll get beat like a left-handed orphen!!!Best,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.http://www.hotmail.com from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Jan 20 08:50:12 2002 g0KEoBW13340 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 08:50:11 - Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:51:33 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: 38ACM taper was 4wt emergency --------------C4C7118867ABA7A3EFC9E582 Since people were requesting it figured I might as well post this to list, this isthe taper I used to build my dad's rod (I think I got it from an old PlaningForm??)I got several others that I think were actually confused with 38L and 38Hmodels. Leonard 38 ACM c. 19607'0" 2 pc 4 wt (measured over bare bamboo)TIP0 0.0645 0.0810 0.09515 0.1120 0.12525 0.13930 0.14935 0.15840 0.17BUTT0 0.1825 0.19110 0.20215 0.21320 0.22425 0.23430 0.31535 0.32540 0.335 Enjoy,Shawn --------------C4C7118867ABA7A3EFC9E582 Since people were requesting it figured I might as well post this to list,this is the taper I used to build my dad's rod (I think I got it from anold Planing Form??) I got several others that I think were actually confusedwith 38L and 38H models. Leonard 38 ACM c. 1960 TIP BUTT Enjoy, Shawn --------------C4C7118867ABA7A3EFC9E582-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 20 09:17:03 2002 g0KFH2W13904 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:17:02 - for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:16:55 - Subject: JW Flyrods Does anyone have an email address for Jerry that works? I tried the one from his website but the mail bounces with a message that states: unknownaddress.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Does anyone have an but the mail bounces with a message that states: unknown address.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun Jan 20 10:12:39 2002 g0KGCcW14757 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:12:38 - Subject: RE: JW Flyrods jwflyrod@jwflyrods.com is the one I use. He will probably not e-mail youback if he can call you on the phone. He prefers this (I think), and he isgreat to talk to. I would just go ahead and call him in CA.Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: JW Flyrods Does anyone have an email address for Jerry that works? I tried the one from his website but the mail bounces with a message that states: unknownaddress.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ = not e-mail you back if he can call you on the phone. He prefers this (I = Grhghlndr@aol.comSent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 address.Brethttp://bretsovens.bravepages.c=om/ from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Sun Jan 20 11:19:42 2002 g0KHJfW15779 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:19:41 -0600 Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:19:32 -0800 Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:19:32 GMT Subject: Re: 7' 4wt emergency!!! FILETIME=[A0462770:01C1A1D6] Hello Eamon: 202E and the Payne 98. Both are excellent with the 202E being a true 4wtand the Payne 98 being more of a 5 wt. The 202E is a great small stream rodwith slight compound taper which really makes it cast nice at short distancesof say 20ft but will still fish will out to 35 ft. The Payne 98 is much morepowerful and fishes best with a 5 wt line. It's a real cannon for a 5 wt rod.It's also my favorite taper of the more then 20 different actions I've built todate. It's a better choice for an all around rod in my eye's, not so much forthe action, but simply for the fact that I feel that a 5 wt is a better choicethen a 4wt line for an all around rod. If you're set on a 4 wt rod, I think you'dbe really happy with the 202E for a dry fly rod. a nice call it one or throw me a get Chat with friends online, try MSNMessenger: ClickHere from canazon@mindspring.com Sun Jan 20 14:27:19 2002 g0KKRIW19188 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:27:18 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16SOYa-0003ht-00; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:27:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Montagne's design theories john,ah, the grand experiement rods. i remember it well. i know that a =lot of information was gathered and most of it was rather subjective, =but will there be a report sometime on the results of the "Grand =Experiment" itself? john, experiement = remember it well. i know that a lot of information was gathered and most = was rather subjective, but will there be a report sometime on the = "Grand Experiment" itself? from pohl@earthlink.net Sun Jan 20 16:08:26 2002 g0KM8PW21135 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:08:25 -0600 helo=pohl) id 16SQ8S-0004ri-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:08:21 -0800 Subject: rod bag and tube I'm almost finished with my first bamboo fly rod and I need a bag and a =case. Whers's a good place to get a thick walled tube and a good = I'm almost finished with my first = from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Jan 20 16:49:07 2002 g0KMn6W22096 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:49:06 -0600 (authenticated) Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:50:40 -0800 Subject: Re: rod bag and tube --------------9B9C428DE62A910DFD171429 Mark, If you are just looking for one tube and bag, and yourmind is set on heavy walled aluminum, you ought to give Russat Goldenwitch a call. His tubes are definitely heavy!!And the flannel bags he sells are plenty nice. Harry Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I'm almost finished with my first bamboo fly rod and Ineed a bag and a case. Whers's a good place to get athick walled tube and a good quality bag from. - Mark --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------9B9C428DE62A910DFD171429 Mark, your mind is set on heavy walled aluminum, you ought to give Russ atGoldenwitch he sells are plenty nice. Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote:I'm almostfinished a good place to get a thick walled tube and a good quality bag from. -Mark --Harry Boyd --------------9B9C428DE62A910DFD171429-- from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Sun Jan 20 16:53:20 2002 g0KMrJW22322 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:53:19 -0600 Subject: Re: rod bag and tube Mark, No financial interest, but REC at www.REC.com has a wide assortment of =rod cases and rod bags, as well as rod fittings. Anglers Workshop at =www.anglersworkshop.com most likely has them also. Hope your rod turned out well! I am about to finish my second one. KurtNixa, MO -----Original Message-----From: Mark & Kathy Pohl Subject: rod bag and tube I'm almost finished with my first bamboo fly rod and I need a bag =and a case. Whers's a good place to get a thick walled tube and a good = Mark, No financial interest, but REC at www.REC.com has a wide assortment ofrod = most = has them also. second one. KurtNixa, MO -----Original = =RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu = Sunday, January 20, 2002 4:19 PMSubject: rod bag tubeI'm almost finished with my first = from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sun Jan 20 16:56:34 2002 g0KMuXW22590 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:56:34 -0600 Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:56:28 -0800 Subject: Re: rod bag and tube FILETIME=[B1D38490:01C1A205] Golden witch has bags and tubes. The tubes are about the sturdiest I = Jeff Schaeffer Subject: rod bag and tube I'm almost finished with my first bamboo fly rod and I need a bag and =a case. Whers's a good place to get a thick walled tube and a good = Golden witch has bags and tubes. The = about the sturdiest I have seen, and the caps are very pretty. www.goldenwitch.com. = Jeff Schaeffer ----- Original Message ----- Mark = Pohl Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 = PMSubject: rod bag and tube I'm almost finished with my first = from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sun Jan 20 16:59:43 2002 g0KMxhW22879 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:59:43 - Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:59:42 PST Subject: Handmill Is anyone doing their roughing on their MHM? Waswondering what tip/tricks anyone was aware of whendoing their roughing on the mill? I'm still in theprocess of making a powered beveler for roughing withbut need to get a rod finished for next month. Anyhelp would be appreciated. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from oakmere@carol.net Sun Jan 20 18:10:27 2002 g0L0AQW24939 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:10:26 -0600 g0L06NM15332 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:06:23 -0500 Subject: RE: Angler Journal Hi Folks: Thanks for the address and web locations. Best, FrankFrank Paul, GreyFoxTroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jan 20 19:20:38 2002 g0L1KcW26151 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:20:38 - Subject: Re: Handmill In a message dated 01/20/2002 6:00:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com writes: Bill, from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Jan 21 18:03:22 2002 g0M03KW11308 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:03:20 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Vest for child Steve, Hunters Angling Supplies (www.huntersangling.com) has a childrensvest that is small enough for a four year old for $23.(usual disclaimer applies)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Steven trauthwein wrote: Hello All, Does anyone know of a place I can find a fly fishing vest for a three year old. I casually told my three year old grandson that I would get him one and he told me today "Remember Grandpa, in march you are going to get me a vest and a T-Rex". His birthday is in March and dinosaurs are his other passion. TIA. Regards, Steve Independence, MO -- > from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Mon Jan 21 18:43:01 2002 Received: from (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) 20:46:40 -0500 From: Shawn Pineo Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods X- Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X- rodmakers Subject: Re: Vest for child 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -------------- from about $4 worth of material and a scrap of sheep wool from a local farmwhen she was 3 and I'm no seamstress!. She outgrew it last year so myyoungest daughter has inherited it (and Kelsey's old hip waders). This year Ifound a kids vest at a flea market that had never even been worn (shame onthat parent) that fits Kelsey (at 8 years of age) and a new pair of hip waders kids vests but expect to pay through the nose for it. They outgrow it sofast... Here's my advice, lay your own vest out and take a good look, thenmake a simplified, smaller version, you could even get him to help if youwant. Get your wife to show you how to use the sewing machine and have atit. My daughter cherished hers as much if not more than if I had bought a$60 Orvis for her. Just my opinion, but it makes me beam with pride eachtime I see one of my daughters wearing it! P.S. TIP....cheesy "Mr. Twister"and "Mepps" crests cover up bad stitching ;^) Shawn Steven trauthweinwrote: Hello All, Does anyone know of a place I can find a fly fishing vest I would get him one and he told me today "Remember Grandpa, in marchyou are going to get me a vest and aT-Rex". His birthday is in Marchand dinosaurs are his other passion. TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence,MO --------------3B5AC29977A5E536000D9E0B Steve, daughter's from a local farm when she was 3 and I'm no seamstress!. She outgrew itlast year so my youngest daughter has inherited it (and Kelsey's old hipwaders). This year I found a kids vest at a flea market that had nevereven been worn (shame on that parent) that fits Kelsey (at 8 years of age)and a new pair of hip waders for under $10 total. looks almost identical to my Columbia vest. I know that Arrives and I thinkLL Bean carry kids vests but expect to pay through the nose for it. Here'smy advice, lay your own vest out and take a good look, then make asimplified,smaller version, you could even get him to help if you want. Get your wifeto show you how to use the sewing machine and have at it. My daughtercherishedhers as much if not more than if I had bought a $60 Orvis for her. Justmy opinion, but it makes me beam with pride each time I see one of mydaughterswearing it! Twister"and "Mepps" crests cover up bad stitching ;^) ShawnSteven trauthwein wrote: Hello knowof a place I can find a fly fishing vest for a three year old. I casuallytold my three year old grandson that I would get him one and he told metoday "Remember Grandpa, in march you are going to get me a vest andaT-Rex".His birthday is in March and dinosaurs are his other passion. SteveIndependence,MO --------------3B5AC29977A5E536000D9E0B-- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 21 21:44:37 2002 g0M3ibW16191 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:44:37 - (authenticated) Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:46:11 -0800 Subject: Skip Shorb Hi folks, Does anyone have current contact information Thanks,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rkrees@mcn.net Mon Jan 21 22:20:26 2002 g0M4KPW17224 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:20:25 -0600 helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16SsQ4-0006vz-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:20:24 -0800 Subject: cane I just received a shipment of cane from and although it did not come presplit it was a the best quality that I have seen in cane for awhile. If youare in line from Demarest to recieve some of this you are in for a treat.and if you are not I would consider it! oh yea I have nothing to do withthem just love there cane and them! Thank youRon from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Jan 21 22:27:46 2002 g0M4RjW17642 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:27:45 - (authenticated) Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:29:19 -0800 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Skip Shorb Thanks Tony! harry Tony Spezio wrote: Skip Shorb -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Jan 22 08:38:23 2002 g0MEcMW26807 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:38:22 - IAA28060; GAA24091; g0MEYl226578; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 06:34:47 -0800 JNL123141@msn.com Bob Maulucci ,rodsupstream@exploremaine.com,RodmakersPost Subject: RE: Repost and Thanks: this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. you obviously haven't tasted red hook or some of the other micro breweries,much much better than the stuff the big guys are making. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Beer's better too! Couldn't help myself ;^) Shawn John Long wrote: Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner in Canada.... john ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks:During the bright summer months I hang the freshly dipped sections on the clothes line. The combination of air, natural ultraviolet light and warmth hardens the finish in one day. you = tasted red hook or some of the other micro breweries, much much better = stuff the big guys are making. Patrick W.Coffey =AOG Incident Repair Planning =Phone: 425-234-2901 = = Harry = Maulucci; rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; = = = ----- Original Message =----- TedSent: Monday, January 21, = PM bob@downandacross.comCc: = Rodmakers Info natural ultraviolet light and warmth hardens the finish in = from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Jan 22 08:53:26 2002 g0MErPW27755 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:53:25 - Subject: Mountain Valley flies - John Kenealy Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools List, This weekend I went to the Marlborough MA fly fishing show and met JohnKenealy.Very nice person, and beautiful rods! John, thanks for the directions to the show. Keep up the beautiful rodwork. Pete from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Jan 22 09:10:43 2002 g0MFAgW28798 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:10:42 - Subject: ultraviolet light Those of you using UV to cure varnish, how and what are you using for =the light source? Thanks, Don Those of you using UV to cure varnish,= are you using for the light source? Thanks,Don from gjm80301@yahoo.com Tue Jan 22 10:16:13 2002 g0MGGCW02898 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:16:13 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:16:12 PST Subject: Re: Macro photo rod parts Not being any kind of expert, One might think I would disagree withChris, but I do not. I still use the 35MM Nikon when I really want a good photo - don'thave access to large format. Even so, I have gotten great use out of my Canon S100 (Elph) thatcasims to be 2.1 megapixels, but has a pretty small element ( so, thephotos don't have the detail of some 2.1 megapixel units I haveseen). The entire reason I got it was to take more pictures due tothe portability of the camera and storability of digital data. The flash is erratic, IMO. It does have exposure control in one-halfstops. Jerry --- Chris Wohlford wrote: Since I work around Graphic Designers, Photographers,Advertising and Marketing agencies I've been askedabout the quality of digital cameras. A lot of peopledon't like my answer and it really depends on whatyour final needs are...but here it is: 1) Nothing in the digital realm comes close to LargeFormat film (4 X 5) transparencies. This is still whatanybody who is really serious about image qualityuses. I can almost guarantee this is what Orvis,Winston and any number of other rod companies used fortheir catalogs. 2) 35mm Slide Film produces much better results thanany digital camera on the market (priced under$10,000). It's also more cost effective than 4 X 5transparencies. Of course, as Ed mentions you do need to scantransparencies and slides as well as know a bit aboutusing Photoshop. It does seem that digital cameras are designed bytechies and not photographers. They lack a lot of thefeatures a film camera would give such as control offlash, exposure, metering and such. I have been using a new Canon PowerShot G2 (4megapixel) for the last few weeks. It takes very largephotos, shows better detail than most other digitalcameras I've used but still doesn't come close to aslide. What's really infuriating is dealing with aflash that you can't control. Anyway, for a good read visit:http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/digicam.htm Best Regards,Chris --- EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: Bob:I have been a professional photog and teacher for 30years, 95% of my commercial work has been on slide film (unless itwas a black and white assignment). But times are a changing.......... andI am looking at digital cameras to see what is best for me.It depends on your photo needs.................. asto how much mega pixels you require.This is what I have learned................. sofar.............Rule of Thumb (part 1)1 to 2 mega pixel cameras make photo quality prints from 3x5 inches to 5x7 inches.2 to 3 mega pixels make up to 8x10 inch photoquality prints.5 mega pixel make up to 11x14 inch photo qualityprints.( you need a good photo quality printer to do theabove printing )If your photo images are only for web / internetuse, 1, 2, or 3 mega pixel is fine, but if you want high resolution 11x14prints for gallery shows, then 5+ mega pixels is the way to go. (along with thememory to shoot dozens of high rez photos for a photo assignment)Rule of Thumb (part 2)Just when I learned all the answers, "they" went andchanged all the questions! There probably are some 1 to 3 mega pixel cameras,along with certain printers, that give great 8x10 photo qualityresults........... but I don't know which do.(If any of this information is wrong, please tellme, I would love to learn more!) 3 megapixels ($599+) to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would be toocostly to produce a lesser effect.>> The 35 mm image produced on film would not be "alesser effect" if you have a good conventional camera, and PhotoShop in yourcomputer, and are trained in PhotoShop, and shoot slide film, then you can make"huge" photo quality prints. Except the roll of professional slide filmwill cost nearly $30 to buy and process, and yes, that would becostly....... Regards,Edward Miller(on the west coast) In a message dated 1/18/02 5:48:12 PM,bob@downandacross.com writes: a new digital camera theother day. I really wanted to get something with theability to do goodmacro photos. My Kodak DC240 has only a 1.3megapixel lens. The salesguy wasconvinced that I needed at least 3 megapixels($599+)to do the job, and he said a regular 35mm would betoo costly to produce alesser effect. I would like to know the best routeto go. Also, I have notseen any responses to you, and I would be interestedin your eventual setup.Thanks,Bob >> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Jan 22 10:18:22 2002 g0MGIMW03146 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:18:22 - id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:11:27 -0500 id Y2QPVQ1V; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:11:23 -0500 Subject: Tips Archive All, I've added quite a few tips to the tips archive. Also, for those of you who have V3.0 Gold of the Bamboo RodmakersDatabase Program, Joe Byrd has asked me if I would host files for thetaper exchange on the tips site. If you find the "Taper Exchange"button on the left margin buttons, you will see the files currentlyavailable for download and processing into the taper archive of theprogram. If you have any questions or comments, fire away.-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from stoltz10@attbi.com Tue Jan 22 10:33:57 2002 Received: from g0MGXuW04279 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127- for; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:33:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Date: Tue, 22 Jan stoltz10@attbi.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This to 2nd Patrick's opinion, you obviously have not been to the = northwest. ---- Boyd ; Bob Maulucci ; rodsupstream@exploremaine.com ; = Repost and Thanks: you obviously haven't tasted red hook or some of theother micro = breweries, much much better than the stuff the big guys are Boyd; Bob Maulucci; rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; = RodmakersPost and Thanks: During the bright summer months I hang the freshly dipped = I'll have to 2nd northwest. -- Cc: Ted ; Harry Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 Repost and = Thanks: you = obviously AOG Incident Repair 0083 M- mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Tue Jan 22 11:47:23 2002 Received: from From: "John Kenealy" "Rod Makers" References:Subject: Re: Mountain Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: mtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Pete, Thanks for the kindwords. I met a number of rodmakers at the show- all very nice people!! OnMonday, I went down to RI and met with George Raineville, who showed me hisMorgan handmill- very impressive. George is making some beautiful 1 piece,nodeless rods!! John K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Van Schaack" Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 9:54 AMSubject: Mountain Valley flies - John Kenealy List, This weekend I went to the Marlborough MA fly fishing show and met JohnKenealy.Very nice person, and beautiful rods! John, thanks for the directions to the show. Keep up the beautiful rodwork. Pete from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 22 12:10:04 2002 g0MIA3W09905 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:10:03 - 22 Jan 2002 10:10:01 PST Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks: ..or bell's brewery in kalamazoo, mi. timothy --- Tim wrote: I'll have to 2nd Patrick's opinion, you obviouslyhave not been to the northwest.----- Original Message ----- From: Coffey, Patrick W JNL123141@msn.com > Cc: Ted ; Harry Boyd ; Bob Maulucci ;rodsupstream@exploremaine.com ; RodmakersPost Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 6:34 AMSubject: RE: Repost and Thanks: you obviously haven't tasted red hook or some ofthe other micro breweries, much much better than thestuff the big guys are making. Patrick W. Coffey AOG Incident Repair Planning Phone: 425-234-2901 Fax: 425-237-0083 M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: Shawn Pineo Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:03 PM Cc: Ted; Harry Boyd; Bob Maulucci;rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Beer's better too! Couldn't help myself;^) Shawn John Long wrote: Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner inCanada.... john ----- Original Message -----From: TedSent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:41 PM bob@downandacross.comCc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; RodmakersInfoSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks:During the bright summer months I hang thefreshly dipped sections on the clothes line. The combination of air,natural ultraviolet light and warmth hardens the finish in one day. ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 22 13:49:19 2002 g0MJnIW14903 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:49:18 - Subject: thread rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu OK I am on the search again. Does anyone have any Belding Corticelli black size A, and some orange size A # 4425? http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ OK I am on the search orange size A # 4425? http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Jan 22 13:52:57 2002 g0MJquW15511 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:52:56 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:52:56 PST Subject: Unusual Coloring on a flamed rod The first bamboo rod I ever owned had a very pleasingflamed cane appearance. The usual dark mottling butinterspersed with an orangish cast/honey coloredsections. Was wondering if anyone has experimentedwith flaming and then ammonia-toning their rods or ifanyone can account for this kind of coloration anyother way? Don't still have the rod or I'd post aphoto. It was also the best Montague I've ever comeacross. Thanks,Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from luu_andrew@hotmail.com Tue Jan 22 14:25:05 2002 g0MKP5W21056 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:25:05 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:24:59 -0800 Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:24:59 GMT Subject: testing, please delete FILETIME=[DD59F260:01C1A382] TestingMSN Photos isthe easiest way to share and print your photos: ClickHere from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Jan 22 14:44:03 2002 g0MKi3W22427 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:44:03 - (63.228.45.156) Subject: JW Rodwrapper Have JW Rodwrapper for sale, contact off list.Dave Have JW Rodwrapper for sale,contact = list.Dave from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Jan 22 15:39:14 2002 g0MLdDW27021 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:39:13 - Subject: Re: thread I've got some #4425 (Belding Corticelli calls it "Dark Tangerine"). How many spools do you need? --Rich from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Jan 22 15:45:10 2002 g0MLj9W27598 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:45:09 - for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:44:37 - Subject: AJ Campbells Book... All: ... is on sale at FlyFishers Paradise for $29.95. I don't know if it's hard or soft cover. http://www.flyfishersparadise.com/ --- click on "Specials" No affiliation or interest, I just noticed it, and they're just good folks. --Rich from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 22 15:54:30 2002 g0MLsUW28364 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:54:30 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:55:52 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Harry Boyd , Bob Maulucci,rodsupstream@exploremaine.com, RodmakersPost Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks: --------------92C01919E07E7408D86A2AEE Actually I drink allot of Micro brewery beer (Propeller and Maritimebrew Co.), and home-brew back when I used to make it. I do love myKeith's, Guinness, and Bodingtons too!!Shawn "Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: you obviously haven't tasted red hook or some of the other microbreweries, much much better than the stuff the big guys are making. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:03 PM Cc: Ted; Harry Boyd; Bob Maulucci;rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Beer's better too!Couldn't help myself ;^)Shawn John Long wrote: Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner in Canada.... john ----- Original Message -----From: TedSent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:41 PM Cc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; RodmakersInfoSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks:During the bright summer months I hang thefreshly dipped sections on theclothes line. The combination of air, naturalultraviolet light and warmthhardens the finish in one day. --------------92C01919E07E7408D86A2AEE Actually I drink allot of Micro brewery beer (Propeller and Maritime brewCo.), and home-brew back when I used to make it. I do love my Keith's,Guinness, and Bodingtons too!! Shawn"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: obviously haven't tasted red hook or some of the other micro breweries,much much better than the stuff the big guys are Patrick W.CoffeyAOG Incident RepairPlanningPhone: 425-234-2901 425-237-0083M- M/C 61-79 -----OriginalMessage----- Sent: Monday, January21,2002 4:03 PM JNL123141@msn.comCc: Ted; Harry Boyd; BobMaulucci;rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Repost andThanks: Beer's better too! Couldn't help myself ;^) ShawnJohn Long wrote:Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner in Canada....john ----- Original Message ----- From:Ted Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:41PM bob@downandacross.com Cc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com;Rodmakers Info Subject: Re: Repost andThanks: on the and warmthhardens the finish in one day. --------------92C01919E07E7408D86A2AEE-- from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 22 15:55:54 2002 g0MLtrW28630 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:55:53 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:57:16 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Repost and Thanks: --------------643E830CF46F1C66EB905B30 You mean B.C. ? ;^) Yes I've sampled Kokanee and Rainier Shawn Tim wrote: I'll have to 2nd Patrick's opinion, you obviously have not been to thenorthwest. ----- Original Message -----From: Coffey, Patrick W Cc: Ted ; Harry Boyd ; Bob Maulucci ;rodsupstream@exploremaine.com ; RodmakersPostSent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 6:34 AMSubject: RE: Repost and Thanks:you obviously haven't tasted red hook or some of the othermicro breweries, much much better than the stuff the bigguys are making. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message-----From: Shawn Pineo Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:03 PM Cc: Ted; Harry Boyd; Bob Maulucci;rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks: Beer's better too!Couldn't help myself;^) Shawn John Long wrote: Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner inCanada.... john ----- Original Message -----From: TedSent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:41 PM bob@downandacross.comCc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com;Rodmakers InfoSubject: Re: Repost and Thanks:During the bright summer months Ihang the freshly dipped sections ontheclothes line. The combination of air,natural ultraviolet light and warmthhardens the finish in one day. --------------643E830CF46F1C66EB905B30 You mean B.C. ? ;^) Yes I've sampled Kokanee and Rainier ShawnTim wrote: I'll have to 2ndPatrick's opinion, you obviously have not been to the northwest. ----- Original Message ----- From:Coffey,Patrick W ; JNL123141@msn.com Cc: Ted; HarryBoyd ; BobMaulucci ; rodsupstream@exploremaine.com; RodmakersPost Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 20026:34AM Subject: RE: Repost andThanks: obviouslyhaven't tasted red hook or some of the other micro breweries, much much Patrick W.CoffeyAOG Incident RepairPlanningPhone: 425-234-2901 425-237-0083M- M/C 61-79 -----OriginalMessage----- Sent: Monday, January21,2002 4:03 PM Cc: Ted; Harry Boyd; BobMaulucci;rodsupstream@exploremaine.com;RodmakersPostSubject: Re: Repost andThanks: Beer's better too! Couldn't help myself ;^) ShawnJohn Long wrote:Ted,The air is obviously much cleaner in Canada....john ----- Original Message ----- From:Ted Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:41PM bob@downandacross.com Cc: rodsupstream@exploremaine.com;Rodmakers Info Subject: Re: Repost andThanks: on the and warmthhardens the finish in one day. --------------643E830CF46F1C66EB905B30-- from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Tue Jan 22 15:57:56 2002 g0MLvtW29030 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:57:55 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:59:19 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Macro photo rod parts Can't beat Nikon for 35 mm!!!!!!!!Shawn Jerry Madigan wrote: Not being any kind of expert, One might think I would disagree withChris, but I do not. I still use the 35MM Nikon when I really want a good photo - don'thave access to large format. from vze27n6j@verizon.net Tue Jan 22 17:40:15 2002 g0MNeEW04206 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:40:14 - (InterMail vM.5.01.04.02 201-253-122-122-102-20011128) with Subject: Wood spacer --=======61193C13======= ascii; format=flowed I have been having trouble drilling a hole straight through the center of a round wood spacer. I have a combo lathe and mill, long and short shank drills and the ones with the point on them (sorry I don't know the correct name for them). Lately I have been drilling in from both ends and then placing the dowel on a mandrel and turning it in the lathe again to true it up. Just seems like too much work to get a centered hole in 5 inches of wood. How do you guys do it? --=======61193C13======= ok-45076267 ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.314 / Virus Database: 175 - Release Date: 1/11/2002 --=======61193C13=======-- from darrell@vFish.net Tue Jan 22 18:07:43 2002 g0N07gW05295 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:07:42 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:07:39 -0600 Subject: RE: AJ Campbells Book... They're soldout... This book is being printed in a soft cover edition andwill sell for $24.95. Should arrive sometime next month I believe. The outof print hard cover book is already a collectible book, and it is as usefulas Keane's book. Darrell -----Original Message----- RMargiotta@aol.com Subject: AJ Campbells Book... All: ... is on sale at FlyFishers Paradise for $29.95. I don't know if it's hardor soft cover. http://www.flyfishersparadise.com/ --- click on "Specials" No affiliation or interest, I just noticed it, and they're just good folks. --Rich from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Jan 22 19:17:33 2002 g0N1HXW07126 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:17:33 - g0N1HRP11427; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:17:27 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Wood spacer FrankCheck to see if your chuck is running true. Then check that the tail stock isnot off set. If these are all running true there should be no difference in thecenter hole in one end or the other. It should be centered in the dowel. Thebit you are referring to is a Brad Bit.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Frank Caruso wrote: I have been having trouble drilling a hole straight through the center of around wood spacer. I have a combo lathe and mill, long and short shankdrills and the ones with the point on them (sorry I don't know the correctname for them). Lately I have been drilling in from both ends and thenplacing the dowel on a mandrel and turning it in the lathe again to true itup. Just seems like too much work to get a centered hole in 5 inches ofwood. How do you guys do it? -------------------------------------------------- ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.314 / Virus Database: 175 - Release Date: 1/11/2002 from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Tue Jan 22 19:48:13 2002 g0N1mDW08030 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:48:13 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:48:12 PST Subject: Books Speaking of fly fishing books, I found a couple overthe weekend that are out of print. "Tricks and Knacks of Fishing" by Horton Manufacturing It's a small book printed in 1911, and has a rodcatalog in the back for Bristol fishing rods includingtheir fly rods at that time. also- "Fly Tackle" by Harmon Henkin 1976 Some of you old guys probably bought this one brandnew off the shelf. I'm just beginning to read it, but so far has a lot ofinformation and opinions about bamboo fly rods. Sortof relevant to recent discussions is a paragraph bythe author in which he recalls a conversation whilefishing with a Boeing engineer who would only usebamboo because the movements were controlled by theparameters of the six sides as opposed to a round rodwhich will mirror a motion error rather than leantoward correcting it. Sounds a little like Montagne'stheory of rectangle rod vs. hexagonal rod, only on adifferent level. Hexagonal vs. round. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jan 22 20:04:29 2002 g0N24TW08594 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:04:29 - Subject: RE: Books Chris and list:I too just picked up a few books. Reed had mentioned how nice "Land ofLittle Rivers" was. It has great pics of the Catskill makers rods. The otherbook was the 2 volume "Trout" by Schweibert. I have to say, I think that isthe best resource I have read yet. I like Keane and Campbell, but "Trout" istruly special. Very informative regarding the rodmakers and models.Does anyone know Mr Keane to ask whether his book will ever be re-issued? Ihave taken it out of the library several times. I am getting tempted to makesome copies! (But, I would never do that...realy).Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Books Speaking of fly fishing books, I found a couple overthe weekend that are out of print. "Tricks and Knacks of Fishing" by Horton Manufacturing It's a small book printed in 1911, and has a rodcatalog in the back for Bristol fishing rods includingtheir fly rods at that time. also- "Fly Tackle" by Harmon Henkin 1976 Some of you old guys probably bought this one brandnew off the shelf. I'm just beginning to read it, but so far has a lot ofinformation and opinions about bamboo fly rods. Sortof relevant to recent discussions is a paragraph bythe author in which he recalls a conversation whilefishing with a Boeing engineer who would only usebamboo because the movements were controlled by theparameters of the six sides as opposed to a round rodwhich will mirror a motion error rather than leantoward correcting it. Sounds a little like Montagne'stheory of rectangle rod vs. hexagonal rod, only on adifferent level. Hexagonal vs. round. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Jan 22 20:11:58 2002 g0N2BvW09008 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:11:57 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Books Bob, A used book dealer at the Marlborough show told me that Marty was re-issuing the book. But I guess that rumor goes around every so often. She had a copy for $275.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Bob Maulucci wrote: Chris and list:I too just picked up a few books. Reed had mentioned how nice "Land ofLittle Rivers" was. It has great pics of the Catskill makers rods. The otherbook was the 2 volume "Trout" by Schweibert. I have to say, I think that isthe best resource I have read yet. I like Keane and Campbell, but "Trout" istruly special. Very informative regarding the rodmakers and models.Does anyone know Mr Keane to ask whether his book will ever be re-issued?Ihave taken it out of the library several times. I am getting tempted tomakesome copies! (But, I would never do that...realy).Best regards, Bob from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Tue Jan 22 20:13:48 2002 g0N2DmW09215 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:13:48 - Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:13:39 -0800 Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:13:38 GMT Subject: Finishing the Finish FILETIME=[92398080:01C1A3B3] All- I'm a bit frustrated. I just finished what is easily my best rod yet. Dick. 8615, 2/2, flamed. Everything is damn near perfect-but when I went to rub it out, I had some problems. I used the Kusse varnish, Last-n-last marine and door gloss. The flats are all fine. I used 1000 grit with some linseed oil to rub out some specks, followed with rottenstone and linseed oil, and then finished with Perfect-it 3. Where I used the 1000 grit on the ferrule wraps and hook keeper wraps, I can't seem to rub out the dullness. The flats are easy to generate some friction and the sanding scuffs came out fine, but I don't want to get too aggressive near the ferrules else I scuff the blue off and I can't generate enough friction at the hook keeper because of the grip and hook keeper itself. I thought about using my dremel with the buffing bit, but it seems a bit risky. To make a long question short, what do you guys do to rub out/buff in tight areas on the rod? TIA,Eamon PS BTW- The nail files I used to sand the varnished wraps worked the tits. Perfect hex shape maintained all around the wraps and no bumps-nice taperto the shaft. You must pick some up at your local beauty supply store, they are great. When they load up, just hit them with a pink eraser. Serious bang for your buck! _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from piscator@macatawa.org Tue Jan 22 20:17:22 2002 g0N2HLW09529 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:17:21 - Subject: Re: Finishing the Finish Cut thin strips of nylon stocking about a foot long and use them to bufflike the shoe shine guys. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Finishing the Finish All- I'm a bit frustrated. I just finished what is easily my best rod yet. Dick. 8615, 2/2, flamed. Everything is damn near perfect-but when I went to rub it out, I had some problems. I used the Kusse varnish, Last-n-last marine anddoor gloss. The flats are all fine. I used 1000 grit with some linseed oilto rub out some specks, followed with rottenstone and linseed oil, and then finished with Perfect-it 3. Where I used the 1000 grit on the ferrule wraps and hook keeper wraps, I can't seem to rub out the dullness. The flats areeasy to generate some friction and the sanding scuffs came out fine, but Idon't want to get too aggressive near the ferrules else I scuff the blue off and I can't generate enough friction at the hook keeper because of the grip and hook keeper itself. I thought about using my dremel with the buffingbit, but it seems a bit risky. To make a long question short, what do you guys do to rub out/buff in tight areas on the rod? TIA,Eamon PS BTW- The nail files I used to sand the varnished wraps worked the tits.Perfect hex shape maintained all around the wraps and no bumps- nicetaper to the shaft. You must pick some up at your local beauty supply store, they are great. When they load up, just hit them with a pink eraser. Serious bang for your buck! _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jan 22 20:29:54 2002 g0N2TrW10106 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:29:53 - Subject: RE: Finishing the Finish Eamon:I would not eben think about that Dremel. I bet it will tear that varnishright up. I use 1500 and olive oil. Then I polish with Meguires #9. Maybeyou should just rotate and recoat the ferrule wraps. The Meguires #9 (SwirlRemover) really works well. I use a popsicle stick for the 1500 in tight andBret's block for the whole blank.You might also consider wrapping the ferrule in teflon plumber's tape so youdon't scratch off that blueing.Good luck.Bob -----Original Message----- out, I had some problems. I used the Kusse varnish, Last-n-last marine anddoor gloss. The flats are all fine. I used 1000 grit with some linseed oilto rub out some specks, followed with rottenstone and linseed oil, and thenfinished with Perfect-it 3. Where I used the 1000 grit on the ferrule wrapsand hook keeper wraps, I can't seem to rub out the dullness. T from channer@frontier.net Tue Jan 22 20:34:22 2002 g0N2YKW10387 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:34:20 - Subject: Re: Finishing the Finish Eamon;I have been using the LnL too. I find that it buffs out very easily withPerfect It II rubbing compound followed by Finesse It IIO machinepolish. The Finesse It is necessary to bring back the high gloss. Youhave just not completed the process.john Eamon Lee wrote: All- I'm a bit frustrated. I just finished what is easily my best rod yet. Dick.8615, 2/2, flamed. Everything is damn near perfect-but when I went to rubitout, I had some problems. I used the Kusse varnish, Last-n-last marine anddoor gloss. The flats are all fine. I used 1000 grit with some linseed oilto rub out some specks, followed with rottenstone and linseed oil, and thenfinished with Perfect-it 3. Where I used the 1000 grit on the ferrule wrapsand hook keeper wraps, I can't seem to rub out the dullness. The flats areeasy to generate some friction and the sanding scuffs came out fine, but Idon't want to get too aggressive near the ferrules else I scuff the blue offand I can't generate enough friction at the hook keeper because of the gripand hook keeper itself. I thought about using my dremel with the buffingbit, but it seems a bit risky. To make a long question short, what do you guys do to rub out/buff intightareas on the rod? TIA,Eamon PS BTW- The nail files I used to sand the varnished wraps worked the tits.Perfect hex shape maintained all around the wraps and no bumps- nicetaper tothe shaft. You must pick some up at your local beauty supply store, theyaregreat. When they load up, just hit them with a pink eraser. Serious bang foryour buck! _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from tedknott@cogeco.ca Tue Jan 22 21:06:39 2002 g0N36cW11293 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:06:38 - Subject: Re: Books A really good section on bamboo rod making can be found in the WiseFisherman's Encyclopedia, published by the Wise Publishing Co, 1951, edited first). Never see it mentioned as a reference, but your library has a bighole in it if you don't have it. The last copy I saw for sale was $30, soits a bargain too! from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Jan 22 21:56:59 2002 g0N3uwW12820 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:56:58 - for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:56:06 - Subject: Finishing Hi List, I'm going dip the rod this weekend via the DH drain tube method. Do I need to do anything special to the ferrules before dipping the rod? Thanks, you guys are the best! Kyle from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jan 22 21:59:55 2002 g0N3xtW13090 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:59:55 - Subject: RE: Books HI Ted:Yes, indeed a great book. Got mine for $8 about 6 months ago. It is a veryinformative text.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Books A really good section on bamboo rod making can be found in the WiseFisherman's Encyclopedia, published by the Wise Publishing Co, 1951, edited first). Never see it mentioned as a reference, but your library has a bighole in it if you don't have it. The last copy I saw for sale was $30, soits a bargain too! from bob@downandacross.com Tue Jan 22 22:51:07 2002 g0N4p6W14416 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:51:06 - Subject: RE: Finishing Hi Kyle:I make a female ferrule plug out of a hardwood dowel using Dave LeClair'sferrule station cutters (generally it is 2/64s bigger than the ferrulesize). I insert the plug into the female. I tape over the whole ferrule withteflon plumber's taper and then use masking tape over the whole ferrule.This way, I get no gummy tape residue on the ferrule. The low tack maskingtape does NOT work. Use sticky stuff so the teflon tape stays put. I coverthe male ferrules completely as well.Works for me,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Finishing Hi List, I'm going dip the rod this weekend via the DH drain tube method. Do I needto do anything special to the ferrules before dipping the rod? Thanks, you guys are the best! Kyle from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Jan 22 23:33:52 2002 g0N5XqW15352 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:33:52 - for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:33:39 - Subject: Re: Books There is one for sale on Ebay right now for less than $10.00. Its a newer edition than mine, but I assume that the bamboo stuff is still in there. Go to... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1503204628 No financial interest.... Regards, Steve. from rodwrapp@swbell.net Wed Jan 23 01:55:16 2002 g0N7tFW17918 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 01:55:15 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Books some email me and I will get your order in.. Thanks Davesrods----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Books There is one for sale on Ebay right now for less than $10.00. Its a neweredition than mine, but I assume that the bamboo stuff is still in there. Go to... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1503204628 No financial interest.... Regards, Steve. from horsesho@ptd.net Wed Jan 23 05:22:22 2002 g0NBMLW19795 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:22:21 - (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4181. . Clean. Processed in 3.137646 secs); 23 Jan 200211:03:26 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Finishing the Finish Hey Bob, Add some garlic, parsley and Clams to that Olive Oil and pour over linguine and you have quite a meal. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Eamon:I would not eben think about that Dremel. I bet it will tear that varnishright up. I use 1500 and olive oil. Then I polish with Meguires #9. Maybeyou should just rotate and recoat the ferrule wraps. The Meguires #9 (SwirlRemover) really works well. I use a popsicle stick for the 1500 in tight andBret's block for the whole blank.You might also consider wrapping the ferrule in teflon plumber's tape so youdon't scratch off that blueing.Good luck.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 9:14 PM out, I had some problems. I used the Kusse varnish, Last-n-last marine anddoor gloss. The flats are all fine. I used 1000 grit with some linseed oilto rub out some specks, followed with rottenstone and linseed oil, and thenfinished with Perfect-it 3. Where I used the 1000 grit on the ferrule wrapsand hook keeper wraps, I can't seem to rub out the dullness. T from harms1@pa.net Wed Jan 23 06:25:31 2002 g0NCPUW20594 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:25:30 - for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:21:48 - Subject: Tony Young Does anybody happen to know the whereabouts of Tony Young? I have beentrying to get in touch with him, but haven't gotten a rise for over a week. cheers, Bill from jerryy@webtv.net Wed Jan 23 06:38:51 2002 g0NCcoW20923 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:38:50 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2112.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id EAA12986; ETAsAhQYW8KdT6qk4r6J6EvBGVqG3mGOyQIUOo7vKi+gt8amb5xrf0dcjbvtOik= Subject: Re: Tony Young 2002 07:22:59 -0500 Tony is out marlin fishing with his mates for a few days. Jerry Young from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Jan 23 06:39:34 2002 g0NCdXW21050 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:39:33 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Books Ted, This section of the Wise Fishermsn's Encyclopedia is on my websiteunder "Extracts". For those who can't find the book, you can just print it out.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Ted wrote: A really good section on bamboo rod making can be found in the WiseFisherman's Encyclopedia, published by the Wise Publishing Co, 1951, edited first). Never see it mentioned as a reference, but your library has a bighole in it if you don't have it. The last copy I saw for sale was $30, soits a bargain too! . -- > from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Jan 23 06:48:54 2002 Received: from Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:41:47 -0500 Received: from macatawa.org (TODDT Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2QPVQSR; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:41:36 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Message-ID:Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:45:10 - Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tony Young References:Content-Type: text/plain; ttalsma@macatawa.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Lasttime I "talked" to him, he was getting ready to go Marlin fishing. I'm not surehow long he's going to be gone though, sorry. WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Does anybody happen to know the whereabouts of Tony Young? I have beentrying to get in touch with him, but haven't gotten a rise for over a week. cheers, Bill -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Jan 23 07:24:30 2002 Received: from Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:24:24 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [67.192.63.252] From: "Ted" Cc: "Bob Maulucci" ,"RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Books Date: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------ second that! You bet it is a great book! There is also a great art= icle byMarvin Hedge about fly lines. I thought it was the most interest= ing articleI've ever read about them plus it tells you how to make your = tapers and This section of the Wise Fishermsn's Encyclopedia is on my website under"Extracts". For those who can't find the book, you can just print it out. Bestregards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ Ted wrote: A really good section on bamboo rod making can be found in the WiseFisherman's Encyclopedia, published by the Wise Publishing Co, 1951, ed= ited e first). Never see it mentioned as a reference, but your library has a = big hole in it if you don't have it. The last copy I saw for sale was $30,= so its a bargain too! . -- I'll secondth= Fro=m: Reed Curry Sent:Wedn=esday, January 23, 2002 8:09 AM = bob@downanda=cross.com; Listserv Rodmakers Su= W=ise Fishermsn's Encyclopedia is on my website under"Extracts". For th=ose who can't find the book, you can just print it out.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/Ted Fisherman's Encyclopedia, published by the Wise Publishing Co, 1951, edit= (= from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Jan 23 09:53:19 2002 g0NFrDW28776 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:53:13 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16TPi0-00010j-00; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:53:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Books a copy of the wise fisherman was just auctioned for about 10 or 12 dollarson ebay. i was going to bid on it to have an extra one for a gift. i gotmine from one of our southern rodmaker friends, ian, for 5 bucks! thanksian!mike from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Jan 23 09:55:24 2002 g0NFtOW29012 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:55:24 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16TPk2-0002Jz-00; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:55:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Finishing does anyone varnish the ferrules to protect them?mike from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Jan 23 09:56:14 2002 g0NFuEW29137 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:56:14 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16TPkz-0000zp-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:56:13 -0500 Subject: Fw: Books ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Books a copy of the wise fisherman was just auctioned for about 10 or 12 dollarson ebay. i was going to bid on it to have an extra one for a gift. i gotmine from one of our southern rodmaker friends, ian, for 5 bucks! thanksian!mike from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Jan 23 10:02:13 2002 g0NG2CW29738 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:02:12 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16TPqk-0001p9-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:02:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Books john,i loved that part of the wise fisherman also. i was thinking about =splicing some lines together myself, and i will do so in the future, but =i picked up a hedge tapered line a few weeks ago. i;ve got to clean it =up and refinish it. i can hardly wait to mike it out, to see if all the = mike john, also. i was thinking about splicing some lines together myself, and = do so in the future, but i picked up a hedge tapered line a few weeks = got to clean it up and refinish it. i can hardly wait to mike it out, to = all the tapers are on it or if it has been cut back. from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Wed Jan 23 10:36:00 2002 g0NGZxW01815 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:35:59 -0600 Subject: Agate striping guides All.I've contacted a Co. in Penn. that precision machines Sapphire, =Glass and Cerimic materials. They think that agate inserts will be easy = Payne style inserts. I will let you know when I get their input.Best Hal. All. in Penn. that precision machines Sapphire, Glass and Cerimic materials. = think that agate inserts will be easy for them to machine. I've sent = drawings of the inserts used on Payne style inserts. I will let you know = get their input. Hal. from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jan 23 10:46:14 2002 g0NGkDW02545 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:46:13 -0600 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:46:01 -0500 MAILINID410-0123114601; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:46:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Books Reed - I read the section from the Wise Fisherman in you extracts. Is there amisprint on heat curing resourcinol? My screen said 1600- 1900 farenheight plastic. from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Wed Jan 23 10:46:58 2002 g0NGkvW02673 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:46:57 - Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:46:52 -0800 Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:46:51 GMT Subject: Milling machine motors, etc.. FILETIME=[8ED93E10:01C1A42D] All-Anyone care to divulge what sort of motor they would/have used in a milling cutter based milling machine. I am entertaining the thought of building one similar to the one outlined in Ray Goulds book. I think it was Ed Hartzels machine. Has anyone out there built one of these? What else do you suppose I should know. I understand you folks have spent a lot of time building and designing these and it would be pretty lame if I were to ask for specific plans, so I won't. I'm a pretty smart bear and I look forward to tinkering for a year or so. All I wish for is some generic guidance. Yes, the end result would be able to cut a finished taper in either a hex or quad. I have a roughing beveler already. Thanks a bunch guys,Eamon _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Jan 23 11:01:44 2002 g0NH1hW03910 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:01:43 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Books Tom, Thanks, I just checked that. The OCR software that I use afterscanning in the pages converted all the degree signs into 0's. Oops. I will make the correction.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Reed - I read the section from the Wise Fisherman in you extracts. Is therea misprint on heat curing resourcinol? My screen said 1600- 1900farenheight for 4 hours. That would surely incinerate anything resemblingwood or plastic. . -- > from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Jan 23 11:14:14 2002 Received: from 12:16:58 -0500 From: Reed Curry User-Agent:Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 rcurry@ttlc.net CC: TSmithwick@aol.com, RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Books - corrected typo References: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Tom et al, It should be alrightnow. FOr those that set their ovens to 1900 degrees, my apologies.:) Bestregards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ Reed Curry wrote: Tom,Thanks, I just checked that. The OCR software that I use after scanning in the pages converted all the degree signs into 0's. Oops. I will make the correction.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Jan 23 11:16:18 2002 g0NHGHW05312 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:16:18 - g0NHG9P00337; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:16:09 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Finishing