References: <43.55887b3.297f8e56@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: flytyr@southshore.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Kyle I plug the ferrules with a rubber plug like is used to plug Gra------ rods. Wrap the ferrule with Plumbers teflon tape and then over wrap with masking tape. If you have not seen drain tube used before, here are a few tips. Warm the room to 80* with the varnish and rod in the room to bring it all to the same temperature. Insert the rod in the tube and look for any bubbles that might attach themselves to the rod or guides. The rod can be shaken some to release the bubbles. Let the rod sit for a few minuets before starting the drain. Drain about 4 " per min. Watch the varnish ring on the tube, don't let the varnish run faster than then varnish is running off the walls of the tube. As you pass a wrap, stop the drain for a minuet or two. This gives the varnish time to drain from around the wrap. If you drain too fast around the wraps and guides you stand a good chance of getting a run. Drain past the guide and stop again, then past the lower wrap of the guide and stop. Do this at every guide and wrap. Varnish will form a film in the guide loop. When you stop just below the guide, you need to wait till the film breaks. Wait till the varnish runs down from around the guide before you start draining again. Sometimes it seems like it will never break, be patient, it will break. To keep the rod from touching the sides of the tube use three quilt pins like a "Y" stuck in the tape around the ferrules. You should get a real nice finish if you take your time with this. Hope this helps. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: > Hi List, > > I'm going dip the rod this weekend via the DH drain tube method. Do I need > to do anything special to the ferrules before dipping the rod? > > Thanks, you guys are the best! > > Kyle >From wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Wed Jan 23 12:26:38 2002 Received: from web11405.mail.yahoo.com (web11405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.235]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with SMTP id g0NIQbW09494 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:26:37 - 0600 (CST) Message-ID: <20020123182637.79666.qmail@web11405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.219.64.15] by web11405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:26:37 PST Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:26:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Walters Subject: Dealers and their influence on the market To: rodmakers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Someone mentioned to me in an offlist comment that dealers typically charge 30% to handle maker's rods. Is this true? I would think that this fact alone would call for some organization of this group (IMHO of course), if not a Guild (I know--dirty word with some) then some kind of confederation that would work together to negotiate better rates because as the person I was corresponding with said, you won't be able to sell to any of these people that are buying from the dealer without the dealer. Or, find some way to group together to get more exposure to sell your rods directly. I'm still very much a novice and not acquainted with selling through any dealers but it seems to me that while the dealers serve a purpose they are keeping the prices artificially high. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ >From stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed Jan 23 12:30:07 2002 Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with SMTP id g0NIU6W09898 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:30:06 - 0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 10079 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2002 18:29:59 -0000 Received: from pec-7-238.tnt2.m2.uunet.de (HELO gmx.de) (149.225.7.238) by mail.gmx.net (mp004-rz3) with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 18:29:59 -0000 Message-ID: <3C4F016B.90F10283@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:31:07 +0100 From: Stuart Moultrie X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0324c (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: canazon@mindspring.com, Rodmakers Subject: Re: Finishing References: <005601c1a42e$371bbc60$6730fc9e@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: stuart.rod@gmx.de Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Mike, I know that Austrian Rodmaker Walter Brunner varnishes his ferrules after bluing. He bakes the varnish on the ferrules to harden it in some way, don't ask me how, but it looks very nice. Stuart mike canazon schrieb: > does anyone varnish the ferrules to protect them? > mike >From CALucker@aol.com Wed Jan 23 13:18:43 2002 Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0NJIhW11961 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:18:43 - 0600 (CST) Received: from CALucker@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id i.123.a94ed05 (1332); Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:18:05 -0500 (EST) From: CALucker@aol.com Message-ID: <123.a94ed05.2980666c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:18:04 EST Subject: Re: Milling machine motors, etc.. To: eamon_lee@hotmail.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_123.a94ed05.2980666c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10552 Reply-To: CALucker@aol.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN --part1_123.a94ed05.2980666c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/02 8:47:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, eamon_lee@hotmail.com writes: > Has anyone out there built one of these? What else do you suppose I should > know. I understand you folks have spent a lot of time building and > designing > these and it would be pretty lame if I were to ask for specific plans, so I > won't. I'm a pretty smart bear and I look forward to tinkering for a year > or > so. All I wish for is some generic guidance If you want the easiest path to making a quality mill, convert a small surface grinder. Look for a surface grinder with a one inch shaft as some of the specialty bamboo mill cutters (carbide tipped) have one inch holes. A typical, if there is such a thing, surface grinder has a 1.25 inch shaft. With a surface grinder you are not reinventing the wheel. You get precision up and down adjustments and good vibration management. All you need to design is the carrier and hold-downs. You can look at automatic feed and dust collection if you have enough amps. I have found used surface grinders for $300 to $400. Remember, you don't need all the fancy stuff like magnetic chucks, etc. I have built quite a few mills, in fact mill-building got in the way of rod-building. But a finish mill can easily be made for less than $700. The last rough mill I sold was $72 without motor. Speaking of motors, I always use a 1hp or 1.5 HP 3450 rpm. I have used 2.75 inch and 3 inch cutters and usually run a 5 inch pulley off the motor to a 3 inch on the cutter shaft -- so what is that? 5,700+ rpm? You do the math. I know that Charlie Jenkins uses (or at least used 15 years ago) 2 inch three wing cutters running 9000 rpm. The feet per second works out about the same, if I remember correctly. Chris Lucker --part1_123.a94ed05.2980666c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/23/02 8:47:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, eamon_lee@hotmail.com writes:


Has anyone out there built one of these? What else do you suppose I should
know. I understand you folks have spent a lot of time building and designing
these and it would be pretty lame if I were to ask for specific plans, so I
won't. I'm a pretty smart bear and I look forward to tinkering for a year or
so. All I wish for is some generic guidance
If you want the easiest path to making a quality mill, convert a small surface grinder.  Look for a surface grinder with a one inch shaft as some of the specialty bamboo mill cutters (carbide tipped) have one inch holes.  A typical, if there is such a thing, surface grinder has a 1.25 inch shaft.
With a surface grinder you are not reinventing the wheel.  You get precision up and down adjustments and good vibration management.  All you need to design is the carrier and hold-downs.  You can look at automatic feed and dust collection if you have enough amps.  I have found used surface grinders for $300 to $400.  Remember, you don't need all the fancy stuff like magnetic chucks, etc.  I have built quite a few mills, in fact mill-building got in the way of rod-building.  But a finish mill can easily be made for less than $700.  The last rough mill I sold was $72 without motor.
Speaking of motors, I always use a 1hp or 1.5 HP 3450 rpm.  I have used 2.75 inch and 3 inch cutters and usually run a 5 inch pulley off the motor to a 3 inch on the cutter shaft -- so what is that?  5,700+ rpm?  You do the math.  I know that Charlie Jenkins uses (or at least used 15 years ago) 2 inch three wing cutters running 9000 rpm.  The feet per second works out about the same, if I remember correctly.  
Chris Lucker
--part1_123.a94ed05.2980666c_boundary-- >From fquinchat@locl.net Wed Jan 23 14:57:03 2002 Received: from mail.locl.net (root@lightning.locl.net [63.149.55.2]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0NKv2W24663 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:57:02 - 0600 (CST) Received: from oemcomputer (an491.locl.net [63.144.71.201]) by mail.locl.net (8.11.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id g0NKurH19250 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:56:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007701c1a453$a0bd83e0$c747903f@oemcomputer> From: "Dennis Bertram" To: "Rodmakers" Subject: Sanding block Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:18:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: fquinchat@locl.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I started using a 6" long sanding block to remove the glue from blanks and have ended up with an undersized rod. The individual strips were right on. I thought that I quit sanding when the enamel was gone. Any thoughts on this? Dennis Bertram >From hartzell@easystreet.com Wed Jan 23 15:28:55 2002 Received: from smtp.easystreet.com (easystreet.com [206.26.36.40]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0NLSsW02701 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:28:54 - 0600 (CST) Received: from easystreet.com (dial-206-102-3-164.easystreet.com [206.102.3.164]) by smtp.easystreet.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g0NLSfC03282; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:28:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3C4F2B8F.E630D4E8@easystreet.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:30:56 -0800 From: Ed Hartzell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eamon_lee@hotmail.com CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Milling machine motors, etc.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: hartzell@easystreet.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Eamon, The motor on my mill is a Baldor industrial, one horse, 1725 rpm. It has been satisfactory in every way except that you have to use a large pulley to get the mill spindle up to about 5000rpm. I think the horsepower is overdone - 1/2 horse would probably be enough. Get a condenser type motor that can be reversed - You may want to climb cut sometime. The belt is just as important as the motor in avoiding vibration. I use a Gates belt - the best. I would be glad to help anyway I can. Ed Eamon Lee wrote: > All- > Anyone care to divulge what sort of motor they would/have used in a milling > cutter based milling machine. I am entertaining the thought of building one > similar to the one outlined in Ray Goulds book. I think it was Ed Hartzels > machine. > > Has anyone out there built one of these? What else do you suppose I should > know. I understand you folks have spent a lot of time building and designing > these and it would be pretty lame if I were to ask for specific plans, so I > won't. I'm a pretty smart bear and I look forward to tinkering for a year or > so. All I wish for is some generic guidance. > > Yes, the end result would be able to cut a finished taper in either a hex or > quad. I have a roughing beveler already. > > Thanks a bunch guys, > Eamon > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx >From JNL123141@msn.com Wed Jan 23 15:47:39 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (oe124.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.117]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0NLlcW07472 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:47:38 - 0600 (CST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:47:33 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [67.192.63.36] From: "John Long" To: , "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Sanding block Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:46:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1702 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A42D.71032680" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 21:47:33.0492 (UTC) FILETIME=[9067DB40:01C1A457] Reply-To: JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A42D.71032680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dennis, You obviously sanded into the power fibers. Try a steel block 3/4" X 1/2= " x 2" long. Cut your sandpaper with a cheap pair of scissors. I think = you will have better results with something like this. =20 John =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Bertram Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:01 PM To: Rodmakers Subject: Sanding block =20 I started using a 6" long sanding block to remove the glue from blanks an= d have ended up with an undersized rod. The individual strips were right o= n. I thought that I quit sanding when the enamel was gone. Any thoughts on this? Dennis Bertram ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A42D.71032680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dennis,
=
You obviously sanded into the power fibers.  Try a steel block = 3/4" X 1/2" x 2" long.  Cut your sandpaper with a cheap pair of scis= sors.  I think you will have better results with something like this= . 
 
John
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Bertram
<= DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4= :01 PM
To: Rodmakers
<= DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">Subject: Sanding block
&= nbsp;
I started using a 6" long sanding block to remove the glue fro= m blanks and
have ended up with an undersized rod.  The individua= l strips were right on.
I thought that I quit sanding when the enamel = was gone.  Any thoughts on
this?

Dennis Bertram

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A42D.71032680-- >From JNL123141@msn.com Wed Jan 23 15:49:37 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (oe37.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.32.117]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0NLnaW08017 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:49:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:49:27 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [67.192.63.36] From: "John Long" To: , Subject: Re: Books Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:47:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1702 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A42D.B4E0CEC0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 21:49:27.0360 (UTC) FILETIME=[D446BC00:01C1A457] Reply-To: JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A42D.B4E0CEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, Please let me know how it casts. Hedge was a world champion in his day a= nd you gotta believe he knew what he was talking about... john =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: mike canazon Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 2:31 PM To: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Books =20 john, i loved that part of the wise fisherman also. i was thinking about spl= icing some lines together myself, and i will do so in the future, but i p= icked up a hedge tapered line a few weeks ago. i;ve got to clean it up an= d refinish it. i can hardly wait to mike it out, to see if all the tapers= are on it or if it has been cut back. =20 mike ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A42D.B4E0CEC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike,
Please let me know how i= t casts.  Hedge was a world champion in his day and you gotta b= elieve he knew what he was talking about...
 
= john 
 
----- Original Message= -----
From: mike canazon
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 2:31 PM
To: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu
Subject: Re: Books
 
john,
   i lo= ved that part of the wise fisherman also. i was thinking about splicing s= ome lines together myself, and i will do so in the future, but i pic= ked up a hedge tapered line a few weeks ago. i;ve got to clean it up and = refinish it. i can hardly wait to mike it out, to see if all the tapers a= re on it or if it has been cut back.
&n= bsp;  mike
------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A42D.B4E0CEC0-- >From JNL123141@msn.com Wed Jan 23 15:51:08 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (oe76.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.218]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0NLp7W08483 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:51:07 - 0600 (CST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:51:01 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [67.192.63.36] From: "John Long" To: "Dave Jankowski" , "Rod Jenkins" , "Bob" , "RodmakersPost" , "Ted Kubit" Subject: Fw: Ages in a Man.s Life Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:49:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1702 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_0004_01C1A42D.ED409200" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2002 21:51:01.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C85B0D0:01C1A458] Reply-To: JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C1A42D.ED409200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Butler Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 2:05 PM To: KEES . LOEK; John Long; Joe Guzzo; Jim King; Andrew Pasquale Subject: Ages in a Man.s Life There are three sexual ages in a man's life: > > Between 15 to 35... TRI WEEKLY > > Between 35 to 55... TRY WEEKLY > > Between 55 to 75... TRY WEAKLY > > Enjoy it while you can. ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C1A42D.ED409200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Butler
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 2:05= PM
To: KEES . LOEK; John Lo= ng; Joe Guzzo; Jim King; Andrew Pasquale
Subject: Ages in a Man.s Life
 
There are three sexual ages in a man's life:
> >   Be= tween 15 to 35... TRI WEEKLY
> >   Between 35 to 55...= TRY WEEKLY
> >   Between 55 to 75... TRY WEAKLY
&g= t; >   Enjoy it while you can.
= ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C1A42D.ED409200-- >From harms1@pa.net Wed Jan 23 17:36:27 2002 Received: from smtp.pa.net (smtp.pa.net [205.166.61.100]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0NNaQW02539 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:36:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from billharm (duppp174.nwb1.perry.pa.net [12.108.100.174]) by smtp.pa.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 487304C880; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:32:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004301c1a466$677c3fa0$ae646c0c@billharm> From: "WILLIAM HARMS" To: , , , References: <005601c1a42e$371bbc60$6730fc9e@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Finishing Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:33:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Reply-To: harms1@pa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Mike, Yes, indeed, 'though not those I leave bright. Otherwise, the blueing just wears away--and it doesn't seem to take very long. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike canazon" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Finishing > does anyone varnish the ferrules to protect them? > mike > >From harms1@pa.net Wed Jan 23 18:00:30 2002 Received: from smtp.pa.net (smtp.pa.net [205.166.61.100]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O00TW07676 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:00:29 - 0600 (CST) Received: from billharm (duppp174.nwb1.perry.pa.net [12.108.100.174]) by smtp.pa.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9010C4C887; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:56:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009201c1a469$c8657c20$ae646c0c@billharm> From: "WILLIAM HARMS" To: , "Rodmakers" References: <007701c1a453$a0bd83e0$c747903f@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Sanding block Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:57:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Reply-To: harms1@pa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dennis, You might want to try flat-filing the glue residue instead of sanding. I lay the blank flat on my bench and use a 6-inch mill bastard file. Hold the file parallel to the bench and at an angle of about 45 degrees to the length of the section. Now just move it lightly down the flat. Rotate one flat at a time. The glue flakes away because it is actually being cut off by the file rather than being rasped by sandpaper. You should not be able to measure a loss of cane at all if you wiped the section fairly clean after the glue-up. The biggest advantages of filing over sanding are that you can protect the corners perfectly, while also removing only the very thinnest film of material. And, speaking of protecting the corners, when you DO sand, try laying a full sheet of paper, back down, on your bench and pushing the rod section back and forth across it, as you would move a pool cue. Hold the section flat down with the finger and thumb of your other hand. I use only 400 grit paper for this. Easy does it, with long strokes. And be especially careful on the tip sections. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Bertram" To: "Rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: Sanding block > I started using a 6" long sanding block to remove the glue from blanks and > have ended up with an undersized rod. The individual strips were right on. > I thought that I quit sanding when the enamel was gone. Any thoughts on > this? > > Dennis Bertram > >From harms1@pa.net Wed Jan 23 18:10:48 2002 Received: from smtp.pa.net (smtp.pa.net [205.166.61.100]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O0AlW09715 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:10:48 - 0600 (CST) Received: from billharm (duppp174.nwb1.perry.pa.net [12.108.100.174]) by smtp.pa.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 111B94C847; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:07:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009701c1a46b$3b633d60$ae646c0c@billharm> From: "WILLIAM HARMS" To: , "Rodmakers" References: <007701c1a453$a0bd83e0$c747903f@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Sanding block Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:08:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Reply-To: harms1@pa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Dennis, Just read your email again and noticed that you said you "quit sanding when the enamel was gone." I think it is a far better practice to scrape or file the enamel prior to planing away the last few thousandths of your strips. You don't want the final measurements of your strips to be based on some compensating factor that "allows" for the thickness of the enamel. Get rid of that stuff so that your final measurements will be dead on before you glue. Then wipe the excess glue from the string so that you will have only the thinnest film to file away later. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Bertram" To: "Rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: Sanding block > I started using a 6" long sanding block to remove the glue from blanks and > have ended up with an undersized rod. The individual strips were right on. > I thought that I quit sanding when the enamel was gone. Any thoughts on > this? > > Dennis Bertram > >From channer@frontier.net Wed Jan 23 18:11:19 2002 Received: from cadmium.frontier.net (cadmium.frontier.net [199.45.141.22]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O0BIW09844 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:11:18 - 0600 (CST) Received: from frontier.net (ppp243.pm3-10.durango.frontier.net [66.118.194.243]) by cadmium.frontier.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5E557A5E8; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:11:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3C4F50F1.ABE4B5BE@frontier.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:10:25 -0700 From: channer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD NS4xx/Winxx/EZN (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eamon_lee@hotmail.com Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Milling machine motors, etc.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: channer@frontier.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Eamon; I use the 1 1/2 hp Dayton 110/220 motor that was going to waste on my tablesaw on mine. It only seems like about 3 times too much motor. The only thing you'll need, besides the iron for the bed, that you can't get from MSC is the rack and pinion gear, to get a 6' long rack I had to go to McMaster-Carr. Think perfect alignment and no play of any kind, anywhere, when you're building it. One more hint, use a straight cutter in the machine to cut the taper in the top of your pattern, that way the enamel side will be in the correct alignment to the 60d cutters when you cut the bamboo. john Eamon Lee wrote: > > All- > Anyone care to divulge what sort of motor they would/have used in a milling > cutter based milling machine. I am entertaining the thought of building one > similar to the one outlined in Ray Goulds book. I think it was Ed Hartzels > machine. > > Has anyone out there built one of these? What else do you suppose I should > know. I understand you folks have spent a lot of time building and designing > these and it would be pretty lame if I were to ask for specific plans, so I > won't. I'm a pretty smart bear and I look forward to tinkering for a year or > so. All I wish for is some generic guidance. > > Yes, the end result would be able to cut a finished taper in either a hex or > quad. I have a roughing beveler already. > > Thanks a bunch guys, > Eamon > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx >From fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Jan 23 18:11:56 2002 Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com [216.176.28.1]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O0BuW10141 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:11:56 - 0600 (CST) Received: from 3g.quik.com (ip198.3g.quik.com [216.176.36.198]) (authenticated) by q4.quik.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0O0DJN114116; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:13:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3C4F505D.6608439E@3g.quik.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:07:58 -0600 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harms1@pa.net CC: fquinchat@locl.net, Rodmakers Subject: Re: Sanding block References: <007701c1a453$a0bd83e0$c747903f@oemcomputer> <009201c1a469$c8657c20$ae646c0c@billharm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Bill, Now that's a great idea! Chalk up one more good one from Mr. Harms. Thanks, Harry Boyd WILLIAM HARMS wrote: > And, speaking of protecting the corners, when you DO sand, try laying a full > sheet of paper, back down, on your bench and pushing the rod section back > and forth across it, as you would move a pool cue. Hold the section flat > down with the finger and thumb of your other hand. I use only 400 grit > paper for this. Easy does it, with long strokes. And be especially careful > on the tip sections. -- Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rods http://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church >From piscator@macatawa.org Wed Jan 23 18:25:24 2002 Received: from freenet.macatawa.org (freenet.macatawa.org [206.26.113.2]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O0PNW12105 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:25:23 - 0600 (CST) Received: from VAIO (cisco2-122.macatawa.org [206.26.113.192]) by freenet.macatawa.org (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA00554 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:26:38 - 0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003101c1a46d$984fc640$c0711ace@VAIO> From: "Brian Creek" To: "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: cork Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:25:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C1A443.AEA7EF50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Reply-To: piscator@macatawa.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C1A443.AEA7EF50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you were in on our group cork order, it's on its way to you now = priority mail. Somebody still owes me shipping fees. I found out that our sales rep had a stroke, and that slowed things = down. He is only in his 40's. Next time somebody else gets to do this!! Brian ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C1A443.AEA7EF50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    If you were in on = our group cork=20 order, it's on its way to you now priority mail.  Somebody still = owes me=20 shipping fees.
 
I found out that our sales rep had a = stroke, and=20 that slowed things down.  He is only in his 40's.
 
Next time somebody else gets to do=20 this!!
 
Brian
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C1A443.AEA7EF50-- >From piscator@macatawa.org Wed Jan 23 18:26:33 2002 Received: from freenet.macatawa.org (freenet.macatawa.org [206.26.113.2]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O0QWW12236 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:26:32 - 0600 (CST) Received: from VAIO (cisco2-122.macatawa.org [206.26.113.192]) by freenet.macatawa.org (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA00646 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:27:48 - 0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003a01c1a46d$c180f890$c0711ace@VAIO> From: "Brian Creek" To: "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: guides Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:26:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01C1A443.D7E52F90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Reply-To: piscator@macatawa.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C1A443.D7E52F90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was an order for snake brand guides pending. Is it too late to = get in on this? I needs guides! Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C1A443.D7E52F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There was an order for snake brand = guides=20 pending.   Is it too late to get in on this?   I = needs=20 guides!
 
Brian
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C1A443.D7E52F90-- >From swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Wed Jan 23 18:45:58 2002 Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O0jvW15590 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:45:57 - 0600 (CST) Received: from user-2ive03h.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.0.113]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16TY1W-0000aY-00; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:45:50 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:43:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Dealers and their influence on the market From: "swiftriverflyfishing" To: wlwalter77us@yahoo.com, rodmakers Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Reply-To: swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi - You raise a lot of interesting questions and the answers are pretty complicated and will certainly vary depending on the position. As a restorer, dealer, and rod maker (and now all three) in chronological order I will offer a few observations. 1) Many of the greatest rod makers (most?) sold rods through dealers at some time and often at the beginning of their careers when they were not well known and did not have good access to markets. In some cases those arrangements worked very well and eventually the makers would do the majority of their selling directly. FE Thomas is a good example of that. In other cases the arrangements were too confining and not financially favorable to the makers and they wanted out of those deals badly and sometimes even stopped making rods for a while until they could resurface in another location under a different business arrangement. 2) In the tackle trade dealers generally buy at 40% off retail for manufactured goods and 30% for hand made goods like bamboo and high end reels. They take on the cost of advertising and all the other business overhead. I figure that as a dealer if my final "profit" margin is 15% I have done ok. And, if the rod does not sell the risk is mine. I could have that rod for several years especially if it is from a new, unknown maker. 3) Many full time makers form relationships with a few dealers early on and then stick with them and sell only a portion of their production through dealers and the rest direct. Good dealers do not get in their way but rather help promote the maker, give him wide exposure and eventually allow the maker to get more money for his rods as the demand increases. It is a kind of partnership that should work to the advantage of both parties. 4) Any respectable dealer sells the rods at the same price as the maker would sell them directly, not higher or lower. I would never undersell one of my makers. If I do not have a rod in stock I refer the potential buyer to the maker. The only real advantage I have is the ability to sell from stock. 5) As a maker if you know that you can sell a certain number of rods at a fixed price even if that price is lower than direct sales it can have a stabilizing effect and insure a steady flow of income. Twenty rods per year at $700 plus 20 rods per year at $1000 is $34,000. If you get to the point that you can sell 25 or 30 rods directly at $1250 or $1500 then maybe those dealers to whom you do not owe any loyalty fall off your list. 6) Some makers refuse to sell through dealers. They don't need em and they have enough trouble making ends meet. More power to em. A maker should only sell through a dealer if that dealers adds something to their ability to make a living. As a dealer I want the makers that sell to me to do well, to become famous, to raise their art to new levels. Hey, good topic and maybe other folks will weigh in. Rick T. ---------- >From: Bill Walters >To: rodmakers >Subject: Dealers and their influence on the market >Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 1:26 PM > >Someone mentioned to me in an offlist comment that >dealers typically charge 30% to handle maker's rods. >Is this true? I would think that this fact alone would >call for some organization of this group (IMHO of >course), if not a Guild (I know--dirty word with some) >then some kind of confederation that would work >together to negotiate better rates because as the >person I was corresponding with said, you won't be >able to sell to any of these people that are buying >from the dealer without the dealer. Or, find some way >to group together to get more exposure to sell your >rods directly. I'm still very much a novice and not >acquainted with selling through any dealers but it >seems to me that while the dealers serve a purpose >they are keeping the prices artificially high. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > ---------- >From: Bill Walters >To: rodmakers >Subject: Dealers and their influence on the market >Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 1:26 PM > >Someone mentioned to me in an offlist comment that >dealers typically charge 30% to handle maker's rods. >Is this true? I would think that this fact alone would >call for some organization of this group (IMHO of >course), if not a Guild (I know--dirty word with some) >then some kind of confederation that would work >together to negotiate better rates because as the >person I was corresponding with said, you won't be >able to sell to any of these people that are buying >from the dealer without the dealer. Or, find some way >to group together to get more exposure to sell your >rods directly. I'm still very much a novice and not >acquainted with selling through any dealers but it >seems to me that while the dealers serve a purpose >they are keeping the prices artificially high. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > >From rextutor@yahoo.com Wed Jan 23 20:03:46 2002 Received: from web14914.mail.yahoo.com (web14914.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.225.241]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with SMTP id g0O23kW02564 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:03:46 - 0600 (CST) Message-ID: <20020124020345.94064.qmail@web14914.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.253.1.195] by web14914.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:03:45 PST Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:03:45 -0800 (PST) From: Rex Tutor Subject: Sanding block- removing glue and string To: fquinchat@locl.net, RodMakers Listserve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: rextutor@yahoo.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Something I have done but never heard any comments on is the following . I use titebond II glue and I wipe off any excess before glue dries. I pull the string off and then I use stripper ( same stuff that removes varnish) . I then scrape down to enamel with a soft plastic card ( like a thin credit card) The glue comes off and it is easier to see the enamel for sandling and scraping. works for me __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com >From bob@downandacross.com Wed Jan 23 20:22:42 2002 Received: from smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net [64.8.50.38]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O2MgW07083 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:22:42 - 0600 (CST) Received: from dax ([24.49.107.165]) by smtprelay6.dc2.adelphia.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GQF7XC00.RET for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:22:24 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Bob Maulucci" To: "rodmakers" Subject: RE: Dealers Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:22:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Bill and Rick: There are a few things that I think need to be brought up. I agree with what Rick has said on this issue. I sell most of my meager amount of rods sold through word of mouth and from my website. I have sold a few through dealers. I have a few on order from dealers as we speak. I appreciate their trust in me to deliver a good product. They pay ahead of time, get a discount and they wait in line like everyone else. Their deposit and a full price deposit get in line just the same. The way I see it, you need to start somewhere. For some, it is the local tackle shop, and for others it is through shows. I like Dickerson's idea that a good rod will sell itself, and you can stay busy without advertising. There are a few things that I can be awkward or bad situations. These are hypothetical situations. 1. Big consignment fees (30%). People with the cash get the rods. There is no way around it. If a guy takes a rod on consignment and I get $750 for that same rod when I sell it, the guy only needs to make $525 to pay me. Then someone says to the dealer, "Hey, I'll give you $600 for that." Hey that is $75 in the dealer's pocket for little if any work. It is bad publicity for the rodmaker because full price was not paid. The maker still needs to pay excise tax on that rod. How does the maker know what the sale price ended up being? He gets his agreed upon $525 when the rod gets sold. 2. The dealer sells a rod for more than your asking price. It has happened. I don't know why someone would pay a third party (dealer) more, but they do. Why is this bad? The dealer is cheating you out of the extra profit. 3. There are way too many dealers out there who flood their lists with rods that do not exist. Looking at these lists, it is so confusing that a buyer cannot really see through it. If you have a buyer who has money to burn, why should you compete with imaginary rods when the dealer has your rod on hand? Dealers should not list rods that are not done yet. As a rule of thumb, if you do not see a picture of the actual rod on a site, it does not exist. Simple as that. (This applies to new rods, but why would you want to buy a vinatge rod unseen?). 4. If a guy buys a rod from a dealer, am I able to sell future rods to that customer directly? Whose customer is he/she? Several good spats have been started over this very issue. 5. Do you get paid immediately after the 3 day inspection period? You should. Ask any promising full time maker (not me), and they will tell you that they are busting their butts getting rods out. They play the game and try to get as many dealers as they can to see their rods. It is a hard game to play. It is frustrating. You find out who you can trust after time passes. It is like any relationship. My advice to those who want to sell rods would be...sell the rods on your own or rely on dealers alone. Do not mix the two. This way you either have the benefit of more profit for each rod, or you have the steady income a dealer will provide. Also, don't sign on with a dealer who will sign on any guy who guarantees him a rod. Why place your product in a pool of guys? It makes no sense. Find someone you trust if you sell through dealers. We are a cynical lot. We see our hard work and not the dealers. Work with someone who will prove that they are actively out to sell your rods. It's tough to give up all that work and share the profit with someone else. If I make a rod ($750 retail)in 40 hours and get $525 for it after dealer's cut, I make $13.13 an hour. The dealer makes $225. Did he really work 17.13 hours to sell that rod? Of course not. BUT, he sold the rod, and that is all he needed to do. My advice to everyone else is...build rods for fun. One day, after I pay off all this tooling and cane...I would like to do that again. I mean, who wouldn't want to do what they love with no strings attached? A business is a very big string sometimes. A very big string. Best regards and good luck, Bob Maulucci >From piscator@macatawa.org Wed Jan 23 20:50:30 2002 Received: from freenet.macatawa.org (freenet.macatawa.org [206.26.113.2]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O2oTW13891 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:50:29 - 0600 (CST) Received: from VAIO (cisco2-146.macatawa.org [206.26.113.216]) by freenet.macatawa.org (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA11043; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:51:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c1a481$dc537d00$d8711ace@VAIO> From: "Brian Creek" To: , "rodmakers" References: Subject: Re: Dealers Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:50:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Reply-To: piscator@macatawa.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN A good friend of mine has a big small winery (??) and sells from the tasting room and to retailers. You can buy his wine for less from dealers (or could a couple of years ago) than the winery. He sees it as marketing and figures he'll make more in the long run. Decissions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Maulucci" To: "rodmakers" Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: RE: Dealers > Hi Bill and Rick: > There are a few things that I think need to be brought up. I agree with what > Rick has said on this issue. I sell most of my meager amount of rods sold > through word of mouth and from my website. I have sold a few through > dealers. I have a few on order from dealers as we speak. I appreciate their > trust in me to deliver a good product. They pay ahead of time, get a > discount and they wait in line like everyone else. Their deposit and a full > price deposit get in line just the same. > The way I see it, you need to start somewhere. For some, it is the local > tackle shop, and for others it is through shows. I like Dickerson's idea > that a good rod will sell itself, and you can stay busy without advertising. > > There are a few things that I can be awkward or bad situations. These are > hypothetical situations. > 1. Big consignment fees (30%). People with the cash get the rods. There is > no way around it. If a guy takes a rod on consignment and I get $750 for > that same rod when I sell it, the guy only needs to make $525 to pay me. > Then someone says to the dealer, "Hey, I'll give you $600 for that." Hey > that is $75 in the dealer's pocket for little if any work. It is bad > publicity for the rodmaker because full price was not paid. The maker still > needs to pay excise tax on that rod. How does the maker know what the sale > price ended up being? He gets his agreed upon $525 when the rod gets sold. > 2. The dealer sells a rod for more than your asking price. It has happened. > I don't know why someone would pay a third party (dealer) more, but they do. > Why is this bad? The dealer is cheating you out of the extra profit. > 3. There are way too many dealers out there who flood their lists with rods > that do not exist. Looking at these lists, it is so confusing that a buyer > cannot really see through it. If you have a buyer who has money to burn, why > should you compete with imaginary rods when the dealer has your rod on hand? > Dealers should not list rods that are not done yet. As a rule of thumb, if > you do not see a picture of the actual rod on a site, it does not exist. > Simple as that. (This applies to new rods, but why would you want to buy a > vinatge rod unseen?). > 4. If a guy buys a rod from a dealer, am I able to sell future rods to that > customer directly? Whose customer is he/she? Several good spats have been > started over this very issue. > 5. Do you get paid immediately after the 3 day inspection period? You > should. > > Ask any promising full time maker (not me), and they will tell you that they > are busting their butts getting rods out. They play the game and try to get > as many dealers as they can to see their rods. It is a hard game to play. It > is frustrating. You find out who you can trust after time passes. It is like > any relationship. > My advice to those who want to sell rods would be...sell the rods on your > own or rely on dealers alone. Do not mix the two. This way you either have > the benefit of more profit for each rod, or you have the steady income a > dealer will provide. Also, don't sign on with a dealer who will sign on any > guy who guarantees him a rod. Why place your product in a pool of guys? It > makes no sense. > Find someone you trust if you sell through dealers. We are a cynical lot. We > see our hard work and not the dealers. Work with someone who will prove that > they are actively out to sell your rods. It's tough to give up all that work > and share the profit with someone else. If I make a rod ($750 retail)in 40 > hours and get $525 for it after dealer's cut, I make $13.13 an hour. The > dealer makes $225. Did he really work 17.13 hours to sell that rod? Of > course not. BUT, he sold the rod, and that is all he needed to do. > > My advice to everyone else is...build rods for fun. One day, after I pay off > all this tooling and cane...I would like to do that again. I mean, who > wouldn't want to do what they love with no strings attached? A business is a > very big string sometimes. A very big string. > > Best regards and good luck, > Bob Maulucci > > >From swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Wed Jan 23 20:58:52 2002 Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O2wqW16047 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:58:52 - 0600 (CST) Received: from user-2ive06j.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.0.211]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Ta6C-0004ch-00; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:58:49 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:56:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Dealers From: "swiftriverflyfishing" To: bob@downandacross.com, rodmakers Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Reply-To: swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Bob - Some good points. I have found consignment sales to be very hard on both dealers and makers and I would shy away from them. The few times I have given rods to dealers to sell on consignment all led to bad feelings. And, as a dealer I do not like to take stuff on consignment. I pay up front and hope that I can make my investment back. I would never recommend consignment arrangements to any one unless there was a lot of trust and a good solid relationship to start with. I think you should know and like the dealers who sell your rods. It is hard for me to imagine a case in which I would sell a rod at a price higher than that for which the maker would have sold it. I am not sure it is dishonest but it would sure feel like I was breaking a trust. Dealers who do that sort of thing are probably pretty short lived. That is one of the reasons that guys like Mark Aroner do not even sell rods at retail price to dealers. Mark takes 3 to 4 years to deliver a rod. When you place a deposit you lock in the price. In that time period inflation and demand are going to drive the price up. If you buy the rod at $1800 and four years later you get that rod and the price has gone up to $2400 for his new rods a dealer could easily make a nice profit just riding the float. So Mark only sells to dealers at retail price if he knows that they plan to keep the rod. Cane rods are hand crafted items and are the work of a particular maker. If I sell a rod to someone I do not own that person's business and I would never be unhappy if they went directly to the maker for future business. I do not know why they should have to deal with me unless I added some value. Any maker should know and trust his dealers and if they feel that the dealer is breaking some trust or ethic point it out and/or do not do business with the person in the future. Dealers who are unethical do a disservice to both other dealers and makers. Rick T. ---------- >From: "Bob Maulucci" >To: "rodmakers" >Subject: RE: Dealers >Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 9:22 PM > >Hi Bill and Rick: >There are a few things that I think need to be brought up. I agree with what >Rick has said on this issue. I sell most of my meager amount of rods sold >through word of mouth and from my website. I have sold a few through >dealers. I have a few on order from dealers as we speak. I appreciate their >trust in me to deliver a good product. They pay ahead of time, get a >discount and they wait in line like everyone else. Their deposit and a full >price deposit get in line just the same. >The way I see it, you need to start somewhere. For some, it is the local >tackle shop, and for others it is through shows. I like Dickerson's idea >that a good rod will sell itself, and you can stay busy without advertising. > >There are a few things that I can be awkward or bad situations. These are >hypothetical situations. >1. Big consignment fees (30%). People with the cash get the rods. There is >no way around it. If a guy takes a rod on consignment and I get $750 for >that same rod when I sell it, the guy only needs to make $525 to pay me. >Then someone says to the dealer, "Hey, I'll give you $600 for that." Hey >that is $75 in the dealer's pocket for little if any work. It is bad >publicity for the rodmaker because full price was not paid. The maker still >needs to pay excise tax on that rod. How does the maker know what the sale >price ended up being? He gets his agreed upon $525 when the rod gets sold. >2. The dealer sells a rod for more than your asking price. It has happened. >I don't know why someone would pay a third party (dealer) more, but they do. >Why is this bad? The dealer is cheating you out of the extra profit. >3. There are way too many dealers out there who flood their lists with rods >that do not exist. Looking at these lists, it is so confusing that a buyer >cannot really see through it. If you have a buyer who has money to burn, why >should you compete with imaginary rods when the dealer has your rod on hand? >Dealers should not list rods that are not done yet. As a rule of thumb, if >you do not see a picture of the actual rod on a site, it does not exist. >Simple as that. (This applies to new rods, but why would you want to buy a >vinatge rod unseen?). >4. If a guy buys a rod from a dealer, am I able to sell future rods to that >customer directly? Whose customer is he/she? Several good spats have been >started over this very issue. >5. Do you get paid immediately after the 3 day inspection period? You >should. > >Ask any promising full time maker (not me), and they will tell you that they >are busting their butts getting rods out. They play the game and try to get >as many dealers as they can to see their rods. It is a hard game to play. It >is frustrating. You find out who you can trust after time passes. It is like >any relationship. >My advice to those who want to sell rods would be...sell the rods on your >own or rely on dealers alone. Do not mix the two. This way you either have >the benefit of more profit for each rod, or you have the steady income a >dealer will provide. Also, don't sign on with a dealer who will sign on any >guy who guarantees him a rod. Why place your product in a pool of guys? It >makes no sense. >Find someone you trust if you sell through dealers. We are a cynical lot. We >see our hard work and not the dealers. Work with someone who will prove that >they are actively out to sell your rods. It's tough to give up all that work >and share the profit with someone else. If I make a rod ($750 retail)in 40 >hours and get $525 for it after dealer's cut, I make $13.13 an hour. The >dealer makes $225. Did he really work 17.13 hours to sell that rod? Of >course not. BUT, he sold the rod, and that is all he needed to do. > >My advice to everyone else is...build rods for fun. One day, after I pay off >all this tooling and cane...I would like to do that again. I mean, who >wouldn't want to do what they love with no strings attached? A business is a >very big string sometimes. A very big string. > >Best regards and good luck, >Bob Maulucci > >From piscator@macatawa.org Wed Jan 23 21:04:08 2002 Received: from freenet.macatawa.org (freenet.macatawa.org [206.26.113.2]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O347W17383 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:04:07 - 0600 (CST) Received: from VAIO (cisco2-146.macatawa.org [206.26.113.216]) by freenet.macatawa.org (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA12112 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:05:22 - 0500 (EST) >From atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Jan 23 23:34:34 2002 Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O5YXW14683 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:34:33 - 0600 (CST) Received: from user-2initcn.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.117.151] helo=g2t8c9) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16TcWq-00040I-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:34:28 -0800 Message-ID: <002201c1a498$7e4c5300$977579a5@g2t8c9> Reply-To: "Adam Vigil" From: "Adam Vigil" To: Subject: $30 bamboo convection oven Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:32:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN A lot of you know I like to tinker. Heat treatment is something I like to control. I want to monitor the drying temp as well as the heat treating temp. I like to dry at 225* for 60 minutes and 350 for 25 minutes. Hot airgun ovens are nice but the good guns cost $$$ and the thought having to replace the gun in the middle of a project has stalled me on this type of oven. Mica strip ovens are quite a project and wiring and case building are not my strengths. I could buy an oven but the price is to close to a new rod and I rather have the rod. I started thinking about Ralph Moon and how he heat treats in a pipe as explained in Powerfibers. Well my little mind started to toss it around for awhile and it came to me how to use the concept of an airgun oven but using a torch and pipe. The cost is about $30 excluding torch and propane tank. I got the torch from Harbor Frieght for $19 and the propane tank free from an old barbque. The pipe can be purchased at any hardware store. I actually only had to screw it all together and TORCH ON! It can be hung by a chain or mounted. Holes can be drilled for monitoring temp. and it will never break. It is a convection oven and the cane is heated at the specific temp with moving air. This is a first version and I may modify it to improve it. Only experience using it will tell. Any reccomendations are welcome. I have it available in JPG. format and the pict is self explanatory. I will not post it to the list because some get upset. I will be sending it to Todds Talsma sight so you can also see it there. If you want a copy let me know or get it from Todds sight. Adam Vigil >From EM11EM22@aol.com Thu Jan 24 02:18:53 2002 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O8IqW23507 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:18:52 - 0600 (CST) Received: from EM11EM22@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id 4.14a.7bd2b85 (4556) for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:18:36 - 0500 (EST) From: EM11EM22@aol.com Message-ID: <14a.7bd2b85.29811d5c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:18:36 EST Subject: Silk Line To: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 40 Reply-To: EM11EM22@aol.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I just got an old auto fly reel with a silk line on it. At least I think it's silk......... When burned it smells like hair, and produces a fine ash................... As a rank amateur with silk lines, I thought a silk fly line was a white, ivory or light tan color material, that, with an old tung oil/varnish finish on it would have an amber/brown coating on a lighter core. (A surface finish on top, and raw silk inside??????) Or does the finish penetrate all the way through the line, making it all dark brown? My line is dark brown all the way through, and very stiff................ Is this the way old silk lines are before they are cleaned? Regards, Edward Miller (on the west coast) >From ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Jan 24 02:47:13 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (f107.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.107]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0O8lCW24049 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:47:12 - 0600 (CST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:47:07 -0800 Received: from 12.33.21.22 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:47:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.33.21.22] From: "Allen Thramer" To: swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Dealers and their influence on the market Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:47:06 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 08:47:07.0287 (UTC) FILETIME=[B439C270:01C1A4B3] Reply-To: ajthramer@hotmail.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN After selling half a thousand rods through dealers i will try to put my perspective on it, in two parts . First to Rick and then to Bob, > 1) Many of the greatest rod makers (most?) sold rods through dealers >at >some time and often at the beginning of their careers when they were not >well known and did not have good access to markets. In some cases those >arrangements worked very well and eventually the makers would do the >majority of their selling directly. FE Thomas is a good example of that. In >other cases the arrangements were too confining and not financially >favorable to the makers and they wanted out of those deals badly and >sometimes even stopped making rods for a while until they could resurface >in >another location under a different business arrangement. I sold rods myself for 5 or 6 years, I was so frustrated with 'customer relations' that I stopped building for a couple of years. This was when no one wanted to talk bamboo and you were seen as some kind of Luddite. A dealer talked me imto sending him a few rods with the promise of no grief and no trouble, just a check in the mail once in a while. It was true and relived me from what I hated the most, pissing away time selling rods. I wanted to build and leave the selling that I hated to someone else. > > 2) In the tackle trade dealers generally buy at 40% off retail for >manufactured goods and 30% for hand made goods like bamboo and high end >reels. They take on the cost of advertising and all the other business >overhead. I figure that as a dealer if my final "profit" margin is 15% I >have done ok. And, if the rod does not sell the risk is mine. I could have >that rod for several years especially if it is from a new, unknown maker. > At 30% the dealer handles the phone work, credit cards, shipping single rods, overhead, advertising, lookie -lous, tire kickers, lets make a deal types and numerous other impediments to actually making rods. Other builders want to know how I make over a hundred rods a year, this is the most important cornerstone. It goes beyond the actual time involved, it includes running around the shop ticked off for 3 hrs due to a jackass not getting anything done. > 3) Many full time makers form relationships with a few dealers early >on >and then stick with them and sell only a portion of their production >through >dealers and the rest direct. Good dealers do not get in their way but >rather >help promote the maker, give him wide exposure and eventually allow the >maker to get more money for his rods as the demand increases. It is a kind >of partnership that should work to the advantage of both parties. > The most important thing - the dealer. Find some you like. I have a pretty firm list of most of the dealers. They are marked on the phone list in my shop with a color code..... Dealers are people too and have the same faults that anyone else does. Some buy outright and won't take orders, some take consignments and treat you with respect in all aspects of dealing. Some less respectful, slow pay, no pay(it does happen), change orders or do not offer a proper level of protection from the madding horde. Dealers can also be grouped into rough 'tiers' also. It is much harder to be carried by one of the 4 top tier dealers. Their long standing reputation carries with it the implicit endorsement of the builders work. They tend to take on builders who have shown talent, offer something unique to their customers, and manage their builders so that they are not in direct competition with each other. In other words ,the true proffessionals. They also have a much higher advertising cost as the maker is promoted in print with a periodical catalog. Second tier dealers have earned a reputation for fair and honest dealing, often through websites with no supporting print publication. They are simply on the way up. Third tier dealers...... hmmm.. often a problem enough for now A.J. > 4) Any respectable dealer sells the rods at the same price as the >maker >would sell them directly, not higher or lower. I would never undersell one >of my makers. If I do not have a rod in stock I refer the potential buyer >to >the maker. The only real advantage I have is the ability to sell from >stock. > > 5) As a maker if you know that you can sell a certain number of rods >at >a fixed price even if that price is lower than direct sales it can have a >stabilizing effect and insure a steady flow of income. Twenty rods per year >at $700 plus 20 rods per year at $1000 is $34,000. If you get to the point >that you can sell 25 or 30 rods directly at $1250 or $1500 then maybe those >dealers to whom you do not owe any loyalty fall off your list. > > 6) Some makers refuse to sell through dealers. They don't need em and >they have enough trouble making ends meet. More power to em. A maker should >only sell through a dealer if that dealers adds something to their ability >to make a living. As a dealer I want the makers that sell to me to do well, >to become famous, to raise their art to new levels. > > Hey, good topic and maybe other folks will weigh in. > >Rick T. > > >---------- > >From: Bill Walters > >To: rodmakers > >Subject: Dealers and their influence on the market > >Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 1:26 PM > > > > >Someone mentioned to me in an offlist comment that > >dealers typically charge 30% to handle maker's rods. > >Is this true? I would think that this fact alone would > >call for some organization of this group (IMHO of > >course), if not a Guild (I know--dirty word with some) > >then some kind of confederation that would work > >together to negotiate better rates because as the > >person I was corresponding with said, you won't be > >able to sell to any of these people that are buying > >from the dealer without the dealer. Or, find some way > >to group together to get more exposure to sell your > >rods directly. I'm still very much a novice and not > >acquainted with selling through any dealers but it > >seems to me that while the dealers serve a purpose > >they are keeping the prices artificially high. > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > >---------- > >From: Bill Walters > >To: rodmakers > >Subject: Dealers and their influence on the market > >Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 1:26 PM > > > > >Someone mentioned to me in an offlist comment that > >dealers typically charge 30% to handle maker's rods. > >Is this true? I would think that this fact alone would > >call for some organization of this group (IMHO of > >course), if not a Guild (I know--dirty word with some) > >then some kind of confederation that would work > >together to negotiate better rates because as the > >person I was corresponding with said, you won't be > >able to sell to any of these people that are buying > >from the dealer without the dealer. Or, find some way > >to group together to get more exposure to sell your > >rods directly. I'm still very much a novice and not > >acquainted with selling through any dealers but it > >seems to me that while the dealers serve a purpose > >they are keeping the prices artificially high. > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com >From petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jan 24 04:09:48 2002 Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OA9kW25128 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:09:46 - 0600 (CST) Received: from mckean (dialup-m1-21.Launceston.netspace.net.au [210.15.253.149]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0OA9Xb59871; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:09:33 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <002701c1a4bf$1de5e900$95fd0fd2@mckean> From: "Peter McKean" To: Cc: "rodmakers" References: <20020123182637.79666.qmail@web11405.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Dealers and their influence on the market Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:08:44 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Reply-To: petermckean@netspace.net.au Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Bill I guess that dealers in any field charge what the market will stand; and they are encouraged by the maker to kep the price as high as can be sustained. To me, that is simply the way that the system works. I have had dealings with only two "dealers", both in the US, and I must say that I have found both of them to be honest and trustworthy people. Cheers Peter >From petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Jan 24 04:31:40 2002 Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OAVbW25512 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:31:38 - 0600 (CST) Received: from mckean (dialup-m1-21.Launceston.netspace.net.au [210.15.253.149]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0OAVTf63601; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:31:29 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <006c01c1a4c2$2e23e6c0$95fd0fd2@mckean> From: "Peter McKean" To: Cc: "rodmakers" References: <14a.7bd2b85.29811d5c@aol.com> Subject: Re: Silk Line Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:30:41 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Reply-To: petermckean@netspace.net.au Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Edward You BURNED it? Please go and stand in the corner now. Never come out! Peter [:-)] >From rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Jan 24 07:36:04 2002 Received: from mail.ttlc.net (mail.ttlc.net [208.130.9.4]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0ODa3W01362 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:36:03 - 0600 (CST) Received: from ttlc.net [208.130.15.82] by mail.ttlc.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AD9027770128; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:35:12 -0500 Message-ID: <3C500E6B.7020005@ttlc.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:38:51 -0500 From: Reed Curry User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: EM11EM22@aol.com, rod Subject: Re: Silk Line References: <14a.7bd2b85.29811d5c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: rcurry@ttlc.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Edward, That is the way "oiled" silk lines are before they are cleaned. "Enameled" silk lines would only have a surface coating... and are to be avoided. Light colored silk fly lines were not that common. Remember, silk fly lines were fished as sinking lines as well as floating lines, and sinking lines are still usually dark. Restoring the line may cause it to lighten a little, but not much. For details on how to restore your line, check the article on purchasing and restoring old silk lines under "Articles' on my website. Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ EM11EM22@aol.com wrote: > I just got an old auto fly reel with a silk line on it. At least I think it's > silk......... > When burned it smells like hair, and produces a fine ash................... > > As a rank amateur with silk lines, I thought a silk fly line was a white, > ivory or light tan color material, that, with an old tung oil/varnish finish > on it would have an amber/brown coating on a lighter core. (A surface finish > on top, and raw silk inside??????) > Or does the finish penetrate all the way through the line, making it all dark > brown? > > My line is dark brown all the way through, and very stiff................ > > Is this the way old silk lines are before they are cleaned? > > Regards, > Edward Miller > (on the west coast) > > > . > > -- >From aport@si.rr.com Thu Jan 24 07:44:52 2002 Received: from si.rr.com (nycsmtp3fa.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.79]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0ODipW01976 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:44:51 -0600 (CST) Received: from den ([24.90.8.22]) by si.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:44:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c1a4dd$08707540$9600a8c0@si.rr.com> From: "arthur port" To: "Rodmakers" References: <007701c1a453$a0bd83e0$c747903f@oemcomputer> <009701c1a46b$3b633d60$ae646c0c@billharm> Subject: O/T Question and rant Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:42:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content- Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X- Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Reply-To: aport@si.rr.com Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Guys- I just got a catalog in and it has an interesting item. Made me wonder. Now I know flyfishers have to have the sharpest and most elegant whoop-de-dos out there ( $100 Dr Slick scissors, $700 gr****te rods, and it's in so much stuff now-a-days I'm waiting to see Hersheys come out with a TITANIUM (!) chocolate bar) but this particular catalog has a pair of nickel silver hackle pliers. I haven't seen a lot of stuff other than ferrules and reelseats made of this stuff, but isn't making something springy out of it kinda like making them out of copper, or tin??? I didn't know who else to spring this one on and figured enough of you guys work with the stuff that SOMEbody'd be able to debunk either their claim or mine. Any offers? Thanks, Art >From Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 24 08:28:07 2002 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OES6W03186 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:28:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from Grhghlndr@aol.com by imo- m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id 4.ce.206c40b7 (30974) for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:27:56 -0500 (EST) From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:27:56 EST Subject: Nickle silver hackle pliers To: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ce.206c40b7.298173ec_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 Reply-To: Grhghlndr@aol.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- part1_ce.206c40b7.298173ec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Art, I have made springs out of nickel silver for patch boxes on muzzle loading rifles before and they seem to hold up well. Some of the old fancy muzzle loaders of days gone by have had nickel silver inserts including patch boxes and also utilized NS springs. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ --part1_ce.206c40b7.298173ec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Art,
I have made springs out of nickel silver for patch boxes on muzzle loading rifles before and they seem to hold up well.  Some of the old fancy muzzle loaders of days gone by have had nickel silver inserts including patch boxes and also utilized NS springs.

http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/
 -- part1_ce.206c40b7.298173ec_boundary-- >From castafly@charter.net Thu Jan 24 09:09:18 2002 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (dc- mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net [209.225.8.17]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OF9HW05212 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:09:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from [24.205.219.29] ([24.205.219.29] verified) by dc- mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with ESMTP id 365444 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:21:40 - 0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:11:29 -0800 Subject: Stripping Varnish Around Inscription From: Jeff Ferguson To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: castafly@charter.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have an old Folsom (Heddon) rod I would like to restore. I need to completely strip the old varnish off, but I would like to leave the inscription intact. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to do this or what kind of stripper wont remove the ink inscription? Thanks in advance... >From briansr@point- net.com Thu Jan 24 09:35:30 2002 Received: from postman.point-net.com (postman.point-net.com [206.123.4.63]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OFZSW06801 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:35:28 -0600 (CST) Received: from johndoe (A02-ppp26.point-net.com [206.123.4.231]) by postman.point-net.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id g0OF5C709995; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:05:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c1a4e7$834321a0$e7047bce@johndoe> From: "brian sturrock" To: , References: Subject: Re: Dealers and their influence on the market Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:57:52 -0500 MIME- Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Reply-To: briansr@point-net.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Allen Excellent post !!!You've really put the subject into perspective.This is also true of art and dealing with galleries who will charge much more(usually 50% )Personally I CAN'T preen and flatter a potential buyer.The talent of a salesman just isn't in me. Cheers Brian : Re: Dealers and their influence on the market > After selling half a thousand rods through dealers i will try to put my > perspective on it, in two parts . First to Rick and then to Bob, > > > > 1) Many of the greatest rod makers (most?) sold rods through dealers > >at > >some time and often at the beginning of their careers when they were not > >well known and did not have good access to markets. In some cases those > >arrangements worked very well and eventually the makers would do the > >majority of their selling directly. FE Thomas is a good example of that. In > >other cases the arrangements were too confining and not financially > >favorable to the makers and they wanted out of those deals badly and > >sometimes even stopped making rods for a while until they could resurface > >in > >another location under a different business arrangement. > > > > I sold rods myself for 5 or 6 years, I was so frustrated with 'customer > relations' that I stopped building for a couple of years. This was when no > one wanted to talk bamboo and you were seen as some kind of Luddite. A > dealer talked me imto sending him a few rods with the promise of no grief > and no trouble, just a check in the mail once in a while. It was true and > relived me from what I hated the most, pissing away time selling rods. I > wanted to build and leave the selling that I hated to someone else. > > > > > > 2) In the tackle trade dealers generally buy at 40% off retail for > >manufactured goods and 30% for hand made goods like bamboo and high end > >reels. They take on the cost of advertising and all the other business > >overhead. I figure that as a dealer if my final "profit" margin is 15% I > >have done ok. And, if the rod does not sell the risk is mine. I could have > >that rod for several years especially if it is from a new, unknown maker. > > > > At 30% the dealer handles the phone work, credit cards, shipping single > rods, overhead, advertising, lookie -lous, tire kickers, lets make a deal > types and numerous other impediments to actually making rods. Other builders > want to know how I make over a hundred rods a year, this is the most > important cornerstone. It goes beyond the actual time involved, it includes > running around the shop ticked off for 3 hrs due to a jackass not getting > anything done. > > > > 3) Many full time makers form relationships with a few dealers early > >on > >and then stick with them and sell only a portion of their production > >through > >dealers and the rest direct. Good dealers do not get in their way but > >rather > >help promote the maker, give him wide exposure and eventually allow the > >maker to get more money for his rods as the demand increases. It is a kind > >of partnership that should work to the advantage of both parties. > > > > > The most important thing - the dealer. Find some you like. I have a pretty > firm list of most of the dealers. They are marked on the phone list in my > shop with a color code..... Dealers are people too and have the same faults > that anyone else does. > > Some buy outright and won't take orders, some take consignments and treat > you with respect in all aspects of dealing. Some less respectful, slow pay, > no pay(it does happen), change orders or do not offer a proper level of > protection from the madding horde. > > Dealers can also be grouped into rough 'tiers' also. It is much harder to be > carried by one of the 4 top tier dealers. Their long standing reputation > carries with it the implicit endorsement of the builders work. They tend to > take on builders who have shown talent, offer something unique to their > customers, and manage their builders so that they are not in direct > competition with each other. In other words ,the true proffessionals. They > also have a much higher advertising cost as the maker is promoted in print > with a periodical catalog. Second tier dealers have earned a reputation for > fair and honest dealing, often through websites with no supporting print > publication. They are simply on the way up. Third tier dealers...... hmmm.. > often a problem > enough for now > A.J. > > > > 4) Any respectable dealer sells the rods at the same price as the > >maker > >would sell them directly, not higher or lower. I would never undersell one > >of my makers. If I do not have a rod in stock I refer the potential buyer > >to > >the maker. The only real advantage I have is the ability to sell from > >stock. > > > > 5) As a maker if you know that you can sell a certain number of rods > >at > >a fixed price even if that price is lower than direct sales it can have a > >stabilizing effect and insure a steady flow of income. Twenty rods per year > >at $700 plus 20 rods per year at $1000 is $34,000. If you get to the point > >that you can sell 25 or 30 rods directly at $1250 or $1500 then maybe those > >dealers to whom you do not owe any loyalty fall off your list. > > > > 6) Some makers refuse to sell through dealers. They don't need em and > >they have enough trouble making ends meet. More power to em. A maker should > >only sell through a dealer if that dealers adds something to their ability > >to make a living. As a dealer I want the makers that sell to me to do well, > >to become famous, to raise their art to new levels. > > > > Hey, good topic and maybe other folks will weigh in. > > > >Rick T. > > > > > >---------- > > >From: Bill Walters > > >To: rodmakers > > >Subject: Dealers and their influence on the market > > >Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 1:26 PM > > > > > > > >Someone mentioned to me in an offlist comment that > > >dealers typically charge 30% to handle maker's rods. > > >Is this true? I would think that this fact alone would > > >call for some organization of this group (IMHO of > > >course), if not a Guild (I know--dirty word with some) > > >then some kind of confederation that would work > > >together to negotiate better rates because as the > > >person I was corresponding with said, you won't be > > >able to sell to any of these people that are buying > > >from the dealer without the dealer. Or, find some way > > >to group together to get more exposure to sell your > > >rods directly. I'm still very much a novice and not > > >acquainted with selling through any dealers but it > > >seems to me that while the dealers serve a purpose > > >they are keeping the prices artificially high. > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > > >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > > > > >---------- > > >From: Bill Walters > > >To: rodmakers > > >Subject: Dealers and their influence on the market > > >Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 1:26 PM > > > > > > > >Someone mentioned to me in an offlist comment that > > >dealers typically charge 30% to handle maker's rods. > > >Is this true? I would think that this fact alone would > > >call for some organization of this group (IMHO of > > >course), if not a Guild (I know--dirty word with some) > > >then some kind of confederation that would work > > >together to negotiate better rates because as the > > >person I was corresponding with said, you won't be > > >able to sell to any of these people that are buying > > >from the dealer without the dealer. Or, find some way > > >to group together to get more exposure to sell your > > >rods directly. I'm still very much a novice and not > > >acquainted with selling through any dealers but it > > >seems to me that while the dealers serve a purpose > > >they are keeping the prices artificially high. > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > > >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > >From JNL123141@msn.com Thu Jan 24 09:40:01 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (oe142.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.135]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OFe0W07274 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:40:00 - 0600 (CST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:39:51 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [67.192.65.56] From: "John Long" To: "RodmakersPost" Subject: Scraping, sanding Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:38:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1702 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A4C3.3DD2FCE0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 15:39:51.0238 (UTC) FILETIME=[5CB0CE60:01C1A4ED] Reply-To: JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A4C3.3DD2FCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use Urac glue and wet wipe as best I can after binding. After string r= emoval, the best thing I have tried for scraping is the side (non-cutting= edge) of my plane blade. It is also easy to touch up with a file and ge= t a bit of a burl on the edge. I scrape until the enamel is almost gone = then lightly sand with 220 grit then 400 grit using a small piece of stee= l for a sanding block. Haven't had any problems avoiding corners or over= -sanding. John =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A4C3.3DD2FCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I use Urac glu= e and wet wipe as best I can after binding.  After string removal, t= he best thing I have tried for scraping is the side (non-cutting edge) of= my plane blade.  It is also easy to touch up with a file and get a = bit of a burl on the edge.  I scrape until the enamel is almost = ;gone then lightly sand with 220 grit then 400 grit using a small pi= ece of steel for a sanding block.  Haven't had any problems avoiding= corners or over-sanding.
 
John 
------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1A4C3.3DD2FCE0-- >From dryfly@erols.com Thu Jan 24 10:52:41 2002 Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OGqeW11496 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:52:40 - 0600 (CST) Received: from 208-58-202-59.s59.tnt1.bltm.md.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.202.59] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 16Tn79-00004Q-00; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:52:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3C5063C8.A64EA758@erols.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:43:04 -0800 From: Robert S Williams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ajthramer@hotmail.com CC: swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Dealers and their influence on the market References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: dryfly@erols.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I think the demise of many self employed one-man run businesses is managing the balancing act of selling and production/servicing. Those caught up in the production/servicing side often don't spend enough time on the selling side (now that I've worked hard to complete the job where is the my next order coming from) and those caught on the selling side often don't spend enough time on the production/serving side (now that I've sold x number of items how am I going to produce to meet the orders). It can be a viscous cycle. An Interesting Dealer Story Back before I began building cane rods I used to build graphite rods (I'm not afraid to admit it, you know admission of a problem/weaknes is the first step to recovery) , mostly for myself and occasionally I would sell some that I no longer had use for. Once I had built a rod from a discontinued Cabella blank ($70), never fished it and asked a shop to sell it for about $170 as is, no warranty. It was well finished rod, custom turned seat, a REC N/S seat, highly figured wood seat, etc.. The shop sold it rather quickly. About five months later, I got a call from the dealer, the buyer broke the tip while casting the rod the first time he used it. I later found out the rod was whacked against a tree while casting. It also looked like it had been used for years, the grip was very very dirty, the reel seat insert and hardware were all scuffed up and scratched, it was obvious that the rod wasn't broken the first time it was fished. The shop wanted to know about fixing it. Luckily Cabellas had an extra tip leftover which I purchased, wrapped and charged the shop $75. A few weeks later the shop called, the buyer broke the rod again, this time the butt and the buyer was irate. I told the shop owner that I didn't think that Cabella's carried the blank anymore, the shop owner was frustrated and decided to offer the buyer a huge discount on a new Sage rod to keep him happy. Now for the kicker, about a year later I was telling the story to someone and he just happened to be the next door neighbor to the buyer, he informed me that shop had sold the rod to the buyer for more than $350, just a tad more than I asked them to sell it for. I guess the buyer should have been more irate with the shop and the shop ended up losing far more than the profit they made on the rod. Bob >From briansr@point-net.com Thu Jan 24 11:24:36 2002 Received: from postman.point-net.com (postman.point-net.com [206.123.4.63]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OHOZW13232 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:24:35 - 0600 (CST) Received: from johndoe (A02-ppp03.point-net.com [206.123.4.208]) by postman.point-net.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with SMTP id g0OHTQ729257; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:29:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c1a4fb$9cc09d60$d0047bce@johndoe> From: "brian sturrock" To: , "Rodmakers" References: <007701c1a453$a0bd83e0$c747903f@oemcomputer> <009701c1a46b$3b633d60$ae646c0c@billharm> <000401c1a4dd$08707540$9600a8c0@si.rr.com> Subject: Re: O/T Question and rant Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:21:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Reply-To: briansr@point-net.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Art They WILL hold up ! I've got a pair that I've used since 1967.Still in use Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "arthur port" To: "Rodmakers" Sent: January 24, 2002 8:42 AM Subject: O/T Question and rant > Guys- > I just got a catalog in and it has an interesting item. Made me wonder. > Now I know flyfishers have to have the sharpest and most elegant > whoop-de-dos out there ( $100 Dr Slick scissors, $700 gr****te rods, and > it's in so much stuff now-a-days I'm waiting to see Hersheys come out with a > TITANIUM (!) chocolate bar) but this particular catalog has a pair of nickel > silver hackle pliers. I haven't seen a lot of stuff other than ferrules and > reelseats made of this stuff, but isn't making something springy out of it > kinda like making them out of copper, or tin??? > I didn't know who else to spring this one on and figured enough of you > guys work with the stuff that SOMEbody'd be able to debunk either their > claim or mine. > Any offers? > Thanks, > Art > >From splitcane@attbi.com Thu Jan 24 11:45:39 2002 Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OHjdW14618 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:45:39 - 0600 (CST) Received: from david ([12.253.156.134]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020124132849.KRTN26243.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@david> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:28:49 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c1a4d7$69e19580$869cfd0c@attbi.com> From: "Dave Collyer" To: "and Collecting" Subject: Special Group Purchase Reel Seats Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:02:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Reply-To: splitcane@attbi.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi All, I have secured all orders to date and there in my possession, some substitutes had to be made as list on the web page but there all very nice and I'm sure you will be pleased... The rest of the stock from my supplier has been sold, so I will not be able to fill any more orders from here on out... PS, I will be unavailable 1/27/02 thru 2/10/02 ( Baja On The Fly ) * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------ * * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------ * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------ * * * * * * * * * *------------------------------------------ * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------- " United We Stand " Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rods www.denverdave.net >From harms1@pa.net Thu Jan 24 11:53:18 2002 Received: from smtp.pa.net (smtp.pa.net [205.166.61.100]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OHrIW15149 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:53:18 - 0600 (CST) Received: from billharm (duppp189.nwb1.perry.pa.net [12.108.100.189]) by smtp.pa.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CAA784C881; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:49:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b201c1a4ff$a9fe0fe0$bd646c0c@billharm> From: "WILLIAM HARMS" To: , "RodmakersPost" References: Subject: Re: Scraping, sanding Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:50:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Reply-To: harms1@pa.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN What is the reason for leaving enamel on a rod, to be scraped or sanded off AFTER the rod has been built? This, I don't understand. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Long" To: "RodmakersPost" Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:38 AM Subject: Scraping, sanding I use Urac glue and wet wipe as best I can after binding. After string removal, the best thing I have tried for scraping is the side (non-cutting edge) of my plane blade. It is also easy to touch up with a file and get a bit of a burl on the edge. I scrape until the enamel is almost gone then lightly sand with 220 grit then 400 grit using a small piece of steel for a sanding block. Haven't had any problems avoiding corners or over-sanding. John >From ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Jan 24 12:10:00 2002 Received: from sligh_nt.sligh.com ([208.163.7.219]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OIA0W16028 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:10:00 - 0600 (CST) Received: by mail with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:03:06 -0500 Received: from macatawa.org (TODDT [192.1.1.173]) by sligh_nt.sligh.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2QPVR35; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:02:59 -0500 From: Todd Talsma To: Adam Vigil Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Message-ID: <3C504D25.28CF89CE@macatawa.org> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:06:29 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: $30 bamboo convection oven References: <002201c1a498$7e4c5300$977579a5@g2t8c9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ttalsma@macatawa.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN All, This has now been updated on the tips site. To get to it, go to the site and select "Contraptions" and then "Ovens". Then, just click on the picture of the oven. The other picture is quite large (not the file size, but the picture itself, if that makes sense), so you may need to scroll to see the whole picture. Any questions, let me know. Adam Vigil wrote: > > A lot of you know I like to tinker. Heat treatment is something I like to > control. I want to monitor the drying temp as well as the heat treating > temp. I like to dry at 225* for 60 minutes and 350 for 25 minutes. Hot > airgun ovens are nice but the good guns cost $$$ and the thought having to > replace the gun in the middle of a project has stalled me on this type of > oven. Mica strip ovens are quite a project and wiring and case building are > not my strengths. I could buy an oven but the price is to close to a new rod > and I rather have the rod. > > I started thinking about Ralph Moon and how he heat treats in a pipe as > explained in Powerfibers. Well my little mind started to toss it around for > awhile and it came to me how to use the concept of an airgun oven but using > a torch and pipe. The cost is about $30 excluding torch and propane tank. I > got the torch from Harbor Frieght for $19 and the propane tank free from an > old barbque. The pipe can be purchased at any hardware store. I actually > only had to screw it all together and TORCH ON! It can be hung by a chain or > mounted. Holes can be drilled for monitoring temp. and it will never break. > It is a convection oven and the cane is heated at the specific temp with > moving air. > > This is a first version and I may modify it to improve it. Only experience > using it will tell. Any reccomendations are welcome. > I have it available in JPG. format and the pict is self explanatory. I will > not post it to the list because some get upset. I will be sending it to > Todds Talsma sight so you can also see it there. > > If you want a copy let me know or get it from Todds sight. > > Adam Vigil -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: mailto://ttalsma@macatawa.org web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction >From lblan@provide.net Thu Jan 24 12:25:36 2002 Received: from provide.net (mail.provide.net [216.86.64.42]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OIPaW17018 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:25:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from [199.178.212.2] (account ) by provide.net (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.5b5) with HTTP id 10177831 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:25:35 -0500 From: Subject: Re: O/T Question and rant To: Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.5b5 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:25:35 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000401c1a4dd$08707540$9600a8c0@si.rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Reply-To: lblan@provide.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN My favorite hackle plier was given to me by a friend, and just happens to be copper, or a copper alloy. They were ancient and well used when I received them. Larry Blan On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:42:57 -0500 "arthur port" wrote: > Guys- > I just got a catalog in and it has an interesting > item. Made me wonder. > Now I know flyfishers have to have the sharpest and most > elegant > whoop-de-dos out there ( $100 Dr Slick scissors, $700 > gr****te rods, and > it's in so much stuff now-a-days I'm waiting to see > Hersheys come out with a > TITANIUM (!) chocolate bar) but this particular catalog > has a pair of nickel > silver hackle pliers. I haven't seen a lot of stuff other > than ferrules and > reelseats made of this stuff, but isn't making something > springy out of it > kinda like making them out of copper, or tin??? > I didn't know who else to spring this one on and > figured enough of you > guys work with the stuff that SOMEbody'd be able to > debunk either their > claim or mine. > Any offers? > Thanks, > Art >From CALucker@aol.com Thu Jan 24 12:55:45 2002 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OItiW18842 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:55:44 - 0600 (CST) Received: from CALucker@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id p.16.190a13d2 (16782); Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: CALucker@aol.com Message-ID: <16.190a13d2.2981b2a5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:55:33 EST Subject: Re: Mill drawing To: piscator@macatawa.org, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_16.190a13d2.2981b2a5_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10552 Reply-To: CALucker@aol.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN --part1_16.190a13d2.2981b2a5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice job. Chris Lucker --part1_16.190a13d2.2981b2a5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice job.  
Chris Lucker --part1_16.190a13d2.2981b2a5_boundary-- >From jerryy@webtv.net Thu Jan 24 13:14:57 2002 Received: from mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105- 1.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.119]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OJEuW20091 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:14:57 - 0600 (CST) Received: from storefull-2111.public.lawson.webtv.net (storefull- 2111.public.lawson.webtv.net [209.240.212.151]) by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 4596214C1 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:14:56 - 0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by storefull- 2111.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA00069; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:14:56 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQMCnBr0ZdLk0gLK5O6H5ypFQAY1AIVAMPIVkm0rWd+vFsbbk36WkvpgciS From: jerryy@webtv.net (Jerry Young) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:14:55 -0500 (EST) To: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Oven Fan Motor Message-ID: <612-3C505D2F-1945@storefull-2111.public.lawson.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Reply-To: jerryy@webtv.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Plan to make some changes to my oven, ie: covering mica heat strip with a 1/4" X 4" steelbar to control radiant heat and add a centrifical blower in the end of the oven. The fan shafts, that I have seen, get very hot and affect the motor. Has anyone found a way to prevent the heat from destroying the motor. Any synthetics I could make a coupling from? TIA Jerry >From horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jan 24 13:21:29 2002 Received: from smtpd.ha-net.ptd.net (smtpd.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.84]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with SMTP id g0OJLSW20628 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:21:28 - 0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 18440 invoked by uid 50005); 24 Jan 2002 19:21:14 -0000 Received: from horsesho@ptd.net by smtpd with qmail-scanner-1.00 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4181. . Clean. Processed in 3.583295 secs); 24 Jan 2002 19:21:14 -0000 Received: from du211017.cli.ptd.net (HELO ptd.net) ([204.186.211.17]) (envelope-sender ) by smtpd.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jan 2002 19:21:09 -0000 Message-ID: <3C505C6E.10802@ptd.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:11:42 -0500 From: "Marty D." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: castafly@charter.net CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Stripping Varnish Around Inscription References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: horsesho@ptd.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Jeff, Remove all the varnish with the stripper but stay away from the writing. Use Alcohol on a Q tip to remove the varnish over the writing. I forget who on this list posted this tip but it does work (at least most of the time). I tried it on 3 different rods and it worked perfectly once and fairly well the other 2 times. If it does not remove all the varnish you can still get great finished results by sanding the remaining varnish as flat as possible and staining some varnish to blend the color so the change by the writing is not to drastic.Work slowly with the Q -tip and alcohol and try not to rub but use it in a rolling fashion. Marty Jeff Ferguson wrote: >I have an old Folsom (Heddon) rod I would like to restore. I need to >completely strip the old varnish off, but I would like to leave the >inscription intact. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to do this >or what kind of stripper wont remove the ink inscription? Thanks in >advance... > > > >From horsesho@ptd.net Thu Jan 24 13:38:22 2002 Received: from smtpe.ha-net.ptd.net (smtpe.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.85]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with SMTP id g0OJcLW22611 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:38:22 - 0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 22806 invoked by uid 50005); 24 Jan 2002 19:38:18 -0000 Received: from horsesho@ptd.net by smtpe with qmail-scanner-1.00 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4181. . Clean. Processed in 0.715819 secs); 24 Jan 2002 19:38:18 -0000 Received: from du211017.cli.ptd.net (HELO ptd.net) ([204.186.211.17]) (envelope-sender ) by smtpe.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Jan 2002 19:38:17 -0000 Message-ID: <3C506075.2010909@ptd.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:28:53 -0500 From: "Marty D." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harms1@pa.net CC: JNL123141@msn.com, RodmakersPost Subject: Re: Scraping, sanding References: <00b201c1a4ff$a9fe0fe0$bd646c0c@billharm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: horsesho@ptd.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Bill, Someone once told me that the enamel acts as a "release agent" to make removing the glue easier. I remove all enamel EXCEPT for a very thin haze before final planing.. This I leave until after glue up. It also helps keep you from removing the power fibers when removing the glue. Marty WILLIAM HARMS wrote: >What is the reason for leaving enamel on a rod, to be scraped or sanded off >AFTER the rod has been built? This, I don't understand. > >cheers, Bill > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Long" >To: "RodmakersPost" >Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 10:38 AM >Subject: Scraping, sanding > > >I use Urac glue and wet wipe as best I can after binding. After string >removal, the best thing I have tried for scraping is the side (non-cutting >edge) of my plane blade. It is also easy to touch up with a file and get a >bit of a burl on the edge. I scrape until the enamel is almost gone then >lightly sand with 220 grit then 400 grit using a small piece of steel for a >sanding block. Haven't had any problems avoiding corners or over-sanding. > >John > > > > >From JNL123141@msn.com Thu Jan 24 14:13:26 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (oe142.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.135]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.10.0.Beta12/8.10.0.Beta12) with ESMTP id g0OKDPW29082 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:13:25 - 0600 (CST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:13:19 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [67.209.182.141] From: "John Long" To: "Bob Maulucci" , "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Scraping, sanding Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:11:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1702 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A4E9.71533BE0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jan 2002 20:13:19.0827 (UTC) FILETIME=[90F8CA30:01C1A513] Reply-To: JNL123141@msn.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A4E9.71533BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bob, Thanks, I'll try it! john ----- Original Message ----- From: across@www.downandacross.com Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:48 AM To: jnl123141@msn.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Scraping, sanding John: That is almost exactly like I do scraping my blanks. In the past, I have gone overboard with the scraping using the 212. It is not a great idea. As for sanding blocks, I like the one Bret Reiter has been making. It uses very little paper, and it is good in close. I still use my rubber sanding block at times to get rough work accomplished, but I like the fact that the block from Bret is just wide enough to use a full inch or so paper without too much of a hard time controlling the stroke. On Tom Morgan's advice, I have been using a slighty radiused block to keep the maximum power fibers on the strips. I have rounded the bottom of the block by placing a sheet of 120 on the culm. I run the sanding block over it to put a reverse curve into the block. Works for me. Bob Original Message: ----------------- From: John Long JNL123141@msn.com Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:38:20 -0500 To: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Scraping, sanding I use Urac glue and wet wipe as best I can after binding. After string removal, the best thing I have tried for scraping is the side (non-cutting edge) of my plane blade. It is also easy to touch up with a file and get a bit of a burl on the edge. I scrape until the enamel is almost gone then lightly sand with 220 grit then 400 grit using a small piece of steel for a sanding block. Haven't had any problems avoiding corners or over-sanding. John -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C1A4E9.71533BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob,
Thanks, I'll try it!
 
john 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: a= cross@www.downandacross.com
Sent= : Thursday,