g1BKjI802448 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:45:18 - Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:45:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Glue/Binder/Binding Cord But we have a national treasure in this list and it is a lot of fun. Correction, Adam, an INTERnational treasure!!!! LOLArt But we have a national treasure in this= is a lot of fun. Correction, Adam, an INTERnational = LOLArt from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Mon Feb 11 16:12:05 2002 g1BMC4808602 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:12:04 -0600 Subject: All.The unit that I use is the model Mark 300A which you can use on =both Nickle Silver and Alum. The unit is made by Marking Methods Inc.Alhambra Ca.Best Hal. All. that = The unit is made by Marking Methods Inc. Ca. Hal. from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Mon Feb 11 16:16:49 2002 g1BMGm808983 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:16:48 - Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:16:43 -0800 "Rodmakers List-serv" Subject: Re: heavy use rod- a question FILETIME=[C9459690:01C1B349] This talk of heavy rods makes me wonder- what handle dimensions and reelseats are people using? Is there such a thing as a "traditional look" for aneight or nine weight cane rod? Perhaps someone would be willing to sharesome designs with the list. Jeff Schaeffer from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Mon Feb 11 16:37:35 2002 g1BMbY811056 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:37:34 - Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:37:33 PST Subject: Re: heavy use rod- a question Rodmakers List-serv Well...IMHO, Bob Venneri's Uplock with a removablefighting butt turned from burled wood set a newstandard for the "traditional look." Regards,Chris --- Jeff Schaeffer wrote: This talk of heavy rods makes me wonder- what handledimensions and reelseats are people using? Is there such a thing as a"traditional look" for aneight or nine weight cane rod? Perhaps someone wouldbe willing to sharesome designs with the list. Jeff Schaeffer __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com from caneman@clnk.com Mon Feb 11 17:52:39 2002 g1BNqc814047 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:52:38 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:51:08 -0600 Subject: Binder Selling a 4 string binder. Have 2, only need one! Those interested apply =offlist. First come, first serve. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com serve. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Feb 11 18:01:29 2002 g1C01R814746 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:01:27 - Rodmakers List-serv Subject: Re: heavy use rod?????????? Wait till Peter McKean sees this message and see what he reckons. Peter made a trip to the "Top End" of Queensland fishing for Barramundi etc and used bamboo.I forget the taper but he seemed to think it was no big deal apart from the wind.He did use graphite too though and it may have been the wind that made him decide to do that.Tony At 11:38 AM 2/11/02 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: John, I guess we're supposed to feel sorry for you, huh? [:-)] That being said, a couple of things are worth thinking about. Since you are making your own rods, breaking a rod, or putting a set in a rod you built, is no major problem. You can repair it yourself. I built an 8' 6" hollow 9 weight. It was on the heavy side, but excelled at throwing large flies long distances. With a few weeks conditioning, throwing that rod for 14 hours a day was not so uncomfortable that I avoided it. The 15-35 minute battles with big (up to 35 lbs.) King Salmon did leave a slight set, but it was easily removed at home. Train yourself to turn the rod over occasionally in order to apply some strain in the opposite direction. I never learned to do that. Second, you may have to be willing to live with some of the limitations of the material you are using to make rods. I know I'll hurt some feelings here, but bamboo may not be the best material for heavy saltwater rods. I think most anglers would enjoy a 9' 10 weight graphite rod more than a similarly sized bamboo rod. Even a 10 weight is going to be on the small side for regular bouts with 20-50 lb tarpon. In fact, I think that regularly fighting fish that size is better accomplished with baitcasting rigs than fly rods. (Flame away, it's just my opinion) Even with drags that will stop a truck, a fly reel largely limits the amount of line you retrieve with each turn of the handle, and pushes the limits of sport. I know it can be done, I just wonder if it should. Harry Jkvseafood@aol.com wrote: i could really use the groups help. i'm making a 815 dickerson taper rod to fish for snook, redfish and bonefish in so florida. i'm worried that this rod may may not hold up to the pressure. i will be catching 7-20 lb fish on a regular basis. i could, if i chose to, catch from 10 to 20, 20 - 50 lb. tarpon in a single day. i will be using a 6- 12 lb tippet. i've been told that if i make a heavier rod say a 9 ft 10 wt that the rod would be very heavy and not enjoyable to use. i'm worried about sets and the like using the 7 wt this way. please HHEELLPP!!!!!!!!! what do you guys think. i'm lucky to have the great fishing down here, if you guys are coming this way ask and i'll direct you to the hot spots. i've built graphite for 25 years and am just startting to make bamboo. i was a commercial fisherman for 10 years ( hook and line) and really know the area. thanks for your help, john henry mitchell rod man.not in book. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from Jkvseafood@aol.com Mon Feb 11 19:06:29 2002 g1C16S816884 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:06:28 - for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:06:17 - Subject: thanks re heavy rods. thanks, to all of you what a help. if anyone has anymore to add it would be appreciated. john from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Mon Feb 11 19:10:00 2002 g1C1A0817082 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:10:00 - g1C1D5p28739; Subject: Re: heavy use rod?????????? Ted Williams alots of other guys caught bonefish, etc on Bamboo. (Para 19, Ithink) and Zane Gray caught giant blue water stuff on bamboo boat rods. Thecane will do it, but, admittidly, at greater weight. It becomes a mind overmatterthing.If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. Brian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: heavy use rod?????????? i could really use the groups help. i'm making a 815 dickerson taper rod to fish for snook, redfish and bonefish in so florida. i'm worried that thisrod may may not hold up to the pressure. i will be catching 7-20 lb fish ona regular basis. i could, if i chose to, catch from 10 to 20, 20 - 50 lb.tarpon in a single day. i will be using a 6- 12 lb tippet. i've been toldthat if i make a heavier rod say a 9 ft 10 wt that the rod would be veryheavy and not enjoyable to use. i'm worried about sets and the like usingthe 7 wt this way. please HHEELLPP!!!!!!!!! what do you guys think. i'mlucky to have the great fishing down here, if you guys are coming this wayask and i'll direct you to the hot spots. i've built graphite for 25 yearsand am just startting to make bamboo. i was a commercial fisherman for 10years ( hook and line) and really know the area. thanks for your help, john henry mitchell rod man.not in book. from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Feb 11 19:14:47 2002 g1C1Ek817352 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:14:46 - (209.71.85.58) Subject: Thumbnail Bits I spent part of the day on Saturday convincing the R and D folk at MLCSWoodworking that they ought to carry a modified thumbnail bit for reel seatmakers. I use a reground bit with a 45 degree angle ground into the tipssimilar to Jack Howell but I noticed that Bob Venneri's bits are ground abit flatter. I think that there would be enough interest just in this list purchasing 25 or so of the modified version since the price should only bearound $20 bucks and offering them to anyone at cost. What I really need toknow is a consensus of opinion on the best angle for a 5/8 inch bit to beground. Then I can go back and wheel and deal. Let me know and let me knowif there is much interest in general. Maybe I could talk them into making astraight bit with a 60 degree notch for a the Medved roughers out there.Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Mon Feb 11 19:17:51 2002 g1C1Hj817610 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:17:45 -0600 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:15:24 -0600 Subject: Off Topic but free No financial interest but just wanted some of you hungry folks to know thatIHOP is having free pancakes tomorrow. Here is the web link that I follow http://www.slickdeals.net/ Darrin CurtisSan Antonio from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 11 21:16:04 2002 g1C3G3820281 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:16:03 - Subject: Re: heavy use rod- a question fbcwin@3g.quik.com,Jkvseafood@aol.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I have one of these that I am putting on a big rod and it is beautiful http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I have one of these thatI am putting on a big rod and it is beautiful http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Feb 11 23:01:54 2002 g1C51s822975 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:01:54 - ([209.179.146.95] helo=computer) id 16aV4h-0006Lv-00; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:01:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Hello list:) Tony, Glad to see you are back for awhile. We are still swapping lies and =stealing each others ideas.. Shoot even Terry's back keeping an eye on =us. Adam Subject: Hello list:) Just signed back up for a while. My college education is off to a good =start, so I have some extra time. Received a 98% on speech about making =Bamboo Fly Rods LOL (didn't see that coming I'll bet.:)) My best class =is composition. I'll bet you guys who know me get a laugh out of that =one. :)) But it's true. I found out that from my experience with the = I understand the list a little more now that I have a psychology class =LOL:)) just kidding around So how are things going in the Bamboo world? Did I miss anything? Tony Miller (always in the dog house) -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here Tony, Glad to see you are back for awhile. We= swapping lies and stealing each others ideas.. Shoot even Terry's back = an eye on us. Adam ----- Original Message ----- Anthony Miller Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002= PMSubject: Hello list:) Just signed back up for a while. My college education is off to a = making Bamboo Fly Rods LOL (didn't see that coming I'll bet.:)) My = psychology class LOL:)) just kidding around anything?Tony Miller (always in the dog house)www.homestead.com/= Here from ajthramer@hotmail.com Tue Feb 12 01:50:22 2002 g1C7oL826185 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:50:21 - Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:50:08 -0800 Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:50:07 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: heavy use rod- a question FILETIME=[E4212470:01C1B399] From: "Jeff Schaeffer" Subject: Re: heavy use rod- a questionDate: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:17:12 - 0800 This talk of heavy rods makes me wonder- what handle dimensions and reelseats are people using? Is there such a thing as a "traditional look" for aneight or nine weight cane rod? Perhaps someone would be willing to sharesome designs with the list. Jeff Schaeffer I used Bob Vennerri's spin seat and the wooden butt cap assembly for a fighting butt.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Feb 12 03:22:51 2002 g1C9Mm827321 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 03:22:49 - Subject: Re: Hello list:) The dark one from the North is keeping just below the radar, but he's out there. Be amused, be very amused [:-)] At 07:22 PM 2/11/02 -0800, Adam Vigil wrote: Tony, Glad to see you are back for awhile. We are still swapping lies and stealing each others ideas.. Shoot even Terry's back keeping an eye on us. Adam----- Original Message -----From: Anthony Miller Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 12:33 PMSubject: Hello list:) Just signed back up for a while. My college education is off to a good start, so I have some extra time. Received a 98% on speech about making Bamboo Fly Rods LOL (didn't see that coming I'll bet.:)) My best class is composition. I'll bet you guys who know me get a laugh out of that one. :)) But it's true. I found out that from my experience with the list, I'm practically an expert on the subject of plagerism LOL LOL I understand the list a little more now that I have a psychology class LOL:)) just kidding around So how are things going in the Bamboo world? Did I miss anything? Tony Miller (always in the dog house) www.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html > ----------Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Feb 12 05:05:45 2002 g1CB5h828222 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 05:05:43 - g1CB5T480700; Subject: Re: heavy use rod?????????? Tony is quite correct. I made a Canadian Canoe copy, and it was fine, but I am not a caster'sbootlace, really, and in the end trying to buck the wind drove me back to mygraphite 7 weight. I now build rods of between 6'3" 3-weight and 8'6" 6-weight, and FOR MYSTYLE OF BUILDING, FISHING AND CASTING I believe that those measure thepractical limits of hexagonal bamboo construction. (Do, please, note the disclaimer in capitals before thumbing off your safetycatches and engaging full auto!) In fact, I prefer to build 7'0", 7'6" and 8'0" 4-weights and 5-weights.Although I must confess to a plan to do a 9'0" 5-weight this year, hollowbuilt when I nut out the fine details. Peter from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Feb 12 07:02:06 2002 g1CD25829403 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:02:05 -0600 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:01:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod Weights Bill, While I took a poke @ building the rod, I certainly didn't think that I was goingto be "bang on" to what Marinaro had in mind. Still, it's a start on solvingwhat could/might be an interesting problem. I weighed the ferrules andhandle and other parts and for the life of me can't figure out how he got asub-4 oz. rod. And I only built the rod as a 2 piecer. So there is only 1 set of ferrulesinvolved. Figured I wouldn't waste another ferrule on my "flight of fancy".Used aluminum reel seat as well, although I went with a complete reel insertof cottonwood bark. The finished rod weighs over 5 1/4 ozs. in the 2 piece configuration. Still, itcasts OK. While it may have been presumptuous of me to attempt a rod based on justdrawings, one wonders why he didn't post the tapers. Maybe it was his secretto keep. Does interest me though - pushing the limits of cane about a far as it will go. I don't know where I could have shaved any more cane from the rod and stillhad a rod that would cast a 5 wt. line. Maybe if he had not said that he builtall his rods for a 5 wt. line and the rod was built for a 3 weight, it might havebeen possible with the taper I derived. Back to the drawing board I guess. catch ya' Don At 11:29 AM 2/11/02 -0500, you wrote: Ralph, Rods that were weighed before the fittings were mounted were not meantto satisfy our legalistic propensities toward "truth-in-advertizing." Instead, they were weighed at that point in their construction as evidence of a rod's ability to handle a fly line of a certain weight (back in the days when the relationship between silk line, rod length and rod weight was a relevant, determining indicator). The weight of the cane, alone (relative to a rod's length), told a customer what to expect of that rod's action. Vince, did not like that system either, but it was because he believed so fervently that hardware itself was bound to alter a rod's action. So he built his lightest rods with small grips, cork reel seats (or balsa), mounted with light aluminum rings, and only a couple coats of very thin varnish. Then he would weigh. Vince spent many, many years of trial-and-error before he was able toobtain the the "magic" combination of strength and minimum weight in the cane. Everything depends upon how the shape (trajectory) of the convex tapersare managed within each of the rod's sections. One does not simply look at his drawings in "The Ring of The Rise" and then go build the rod. You can build a good, fishable rod, no doubt, but you probably will not have built the very lightest rod that COULD be built. That was what Vince spent years searching out. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph W. Moon" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: Re: Rod Weights Don It was my understanding that the rod weight was figured before fittings. I always thought that was a stupid idea, because how could anybody ever check it out without tearing the rod to pieces. Ralph Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Some time ago there was a discussion of when rods should be weighed. Just finished up my rendition of the tapers drawings that VinceMarinaro included in the "Ring of the Rise". He says that the rod should weight under 4 ozs. In my case, the raw cane without gluing or other finishing items came about at 3.3 ozs. Based on the fact that says that he builds all his rods for a 5 weight line it would seem that the rod I've made that casts a 5 weight cannot have any more cane removed anywhere and still cast a 5 wt. So did you think that he might have weighed it without fittings? Is this typical of rodmakers or lawyers or only in combination? catch ya' Don http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from caneman@clnk.com Tue Feb 12 07:31:52 2002 g1CDVp800115 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:31:51 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Rod Weights Weight is very dependant on the particular taper you're building. = finished a 3pc 7'6" 5 weight that weighs (finished wt, with reel seat, =guides, grip and varnish) 3 7/8 ounce. Of course my rods don't have a =swelled but and that is with only a 6 1/2" RHW grip and a Leonard Style =Cap and Ring reel seat courtesy Tony Larson. Now, we're talking about =two entirely different tapers, but still, about two rods that will =perform essentially the same end function. This same rod is the rod =that Troy Miller cast here and is building for himself. It will lay =down a flyline like a feather, yet if you need to, you can shoot it to =the moon. A little less cane, overall, but still an efficient casting =machine.I've fished many rods that weigh much more than 5 ounces, but only =one that I make does weigh in that heavy and it's a monster. I'm just =more comfortable with light rods and since I don't, personally, see any =advantage to having that much cane glued to a reel seat, I make mine to =be light. Of course, too many "shop bites" keep me pretty gimped up and =when you're sore most of the time, you don't want to have to fight any =more bamboo (or anything else) that you have too. *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Re: Rod Weights Bill, While I took a poke @ building the rod, I certainly didn't think that =I was going to be "bang on" to what Marinaro had in mind. Still, it's a =start on solving what could/might be an interesting problem. I weighed =the ferrules and handle and other parts and for the life of me can't =figure out how he got a sub-4 oz. rod.And I only built the rod as a 2 piecer. So there is only 1 set of =ferrules involved. Figured I wouldn't waste another ferrule on my ="flight of fancy". Used aluminum reel seat as well, although I went with =a complete reel insert of cottonwood bark.The finished rod weighs over 5 1/4 ozs. in the 2 piece configuration. =Still, it casts OK.While it may have been presumptuous of me to attempt a rod based on =just drawings, one wonders why he didn't post the tapers. Maybe it was =his secret to keep.Does interest me though - pushing the limits of cane about a far as it =will go.I don't know where I could have shaved any more cane from the rod and =still had a rod that would cast a 5 wt. line. Maybe if he had not said =that he built all his rods for a 5 wt. line and the rod was built for a =3 weight, it might have been possible with the taper I derived. Back to the drawing board I guess. catch ya' Don At 11:29 AM 2/11/02 -0500, you wrote:Ralph, Rods that were weighed before the fittings were mounted were not =meant tosatisfy our legalistic propensities toward "truth-in-advertizing." =Instead,they were weighed at that point in their construction as evidence of =a rod'sability to handle a fly line of a certain weight (back in the days =when therelationship between silk line, rod length and rod weight was a =relevant,determining indicator). The weight of the cane, alone (relative to a rod's length), told a =customerwhat to expect of that rod's action. Vince, did not like that system either, but it was because he =believed sofervently that hardware itself was bound to alter a rod's action. So =hebuilt his lightest rods with small grips, cork reel seats (or balsa),mounted with light aluminum rings, and only a couple coats of very =thinvarnish. Then he would weigh. Vince spent many, many years of trial-and-error before he was able to =obtainthe the "magic" combination of strength and minimum weight in the =cane.Everything depends upon how the shape (trajectory) of the convex =tapers aremanaged within each of the rod's sections. One does not simply look =at hisdrawings in "The Ring of The Rise" and then go build the rod. You can =builda good, fishable rod, no doubt, but you probably will not have built =thevery lightest rod that COULD be built. That was what Vince spent =yearssearching out. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph W. Moon" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:45 AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights fittings. I always thought that was a stupid idea, because how couldanybody ever check it out without tearing the rod to pieces.Ralph Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Some time ago there was a discussion of when rods should be =weighed.Just finished up my rendition of the tapers drawings that Vince =Marinaroincluded in the "Ring of the Rise". He says that the rod should =weight under4 ozs. In my case, the raw cane without gluing or other finishing =items cameabout at 3.3 ozs.Based on the fact that says that he builds all his rods for a 5 =weightline it would seem that the rod I've made that casts a 5 weight =cannot haveany more cane removed anywhere and still cast a 5 wt.So did you think that he might have weighed it without fittings? =Is thistypical of rodmakers or lawyers or only in combination? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html = 5 ounces, I just finished a 3pc 7'6" 5 weight that weighs (finished wt, = have a swelled but and that is with only a 6 1/2" RHW grip and a Leonard = less cane, overall, but still an efficient casting machine. = than 5 ounces, but only one that I make does weigh in that heavy and = me pretty gimped up and when you're sore most of the time, you don't = *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- & Sandy Andersen Cc: TSmithwick@aol.com ; rmoon@ida.net =; rodmakers@mail.wustL.edu = Sent: Tuesday, February 12, = AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights took a poke @ building the rod, I certainly didn't think that I was = be "bang on" to what Marinaro had in mind. Still, it's a start on = could/might be an interesting problem. I weighed the ferrules and = other parts and for the life of me can't figure out how he got a sub-4 = rod.And I only built the rod as a 2 piecer. So there is only 1 set = ferrules involved. Figured I wouldn't waste another ferrule on my = fancy". Used aluminum reel seat as well, although I went with a = insert of cottonwood bark.The finished rod weighs over 5 1/4 ozs. = presumptuous of me to attempt a rod based on just drawings, one = didn't post the tapers. Maybe it was his secret to keep.Does = though - pushing the limits of cane about a far as it will go.I = where I could have shaved any more cane from the rod and still had a = would cast a 5 wt. line. Maybe if he had not said that he built all = guess.catch ya'DonAt 11:29 AM2/11/02 = before = at that point in their construction as evidence of a = = = It = always thought that was a stupid idea, because how = = from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Feb 12 07:49:45 2002 g1CDnj800712 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:49:45 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16adJG-0003Lv-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:49:26 -0500 Subject: Off Subject Please pardon the non-rodmaking question. A while back, someone on the list provided instructions for blocking =email from an individual. I'd like to see those instructions again. I'm getting spam from one particular address practically every time I =turn this box on. I'm using Microsoft Internet Explorer and Outlook =Express. TIA.Ed question. A while back, someone on the list = I'm getting spam from one particular = practically every time I turn this box on. I'm using Microsoft Internet = and Outlook Express. TIA.Ed from harms1@pa.net Tue Feb 12 08:24:15 2002 g1CEOF802556 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:24:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Weights Don, I looked over my email on this thread, and want to apologize for being, Ithink, downright insulting to you and your efforts to try Vince's convextaper ideas. That was unintended, but also quite unnecessary. Vince was building rods only for his own use, and with the exception ofRobert Crompton, George Parker Holden, and (very late), Hoagy CarmichaelandTom Maxwell, he spoke with no other rod makers. Although he studiedeverything he could get his hands on, he spoke with no other rod makers, andcarried on his work pretty much in a vacuum. In those days (1930s-1970s), most rod makers simply did not communicatemuchwith one another or share their information. There are some notableexceptions, of course, but Vince was unaware of most of the work that wenowknow was actually going on among amateur builders. It was really onlysubsequent to the demise of most of the commercial builders (and, ofcourse,the publication of Hoagy's book on Garrison) that makers began what we nowhave as a completely open forum. At the time Vince taught me to build (mid-seventies) I too knew no othermakers, although I now realize that, indeed, there were already quite alarge number of other amateurs out there. During the earlier decades(following "A Modern Dry Fly Code") when Vince was working out his theorieson cane rods, his fear was that some commercial builder might sieze upon histapers and market a series of rods in his name, but without his permissionor oversight. His concern was a matter of rather intense personal pride,but it was also a matter of "fair play" and ecomomics. Vince was an absolute perfectionist in rod construction, and completelyobsessed with his ideas of fly rod design. He did not want his tapers to beknown before he had worked each one out to its ultimate conclusion, but,with the exception of perhaps two or three rods, he never quite reached thatgoal. So, the tapers were never made available--not to me, not to Hoagy, and notto Tom Maxwell. Most of Vince's rods were, frankly, a "mess" (well, bytoday's aesthetic standards) because he had little interest in that part ofthe craft. I re-finished two of his rods and Tom Maxwell did one of them,but we were both requested, expressly, not to mike the rods' dimensions.Many of my friends still assume that I secretly harbor Vince's tapers, but Ido not. Late in Vince's life, he had it in mind to seek out a commercial maker whowould build a special series of rods in his name, while he was to retainfinal supervision in all matters of quality control. This did notmaterialize for a variety of reasons, and the tapers died along with Vince.Today, the Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum owns Vince's entire collection,but sadly, although we have his rods and other paraphernalia, there are nosurviving records, neither of his building notes nor his tapers. Vince's rods are not to be regarded as the finest rods ever built,but they certainly mark one of the most remarkable (even if, apart from thechapter in "In The Ring of The Rise," unknown)contributions in thedevelopment of dry-fly taper design. He spent dozens of years obsessingabout rods that would be capable of delivering maximum power at minimumweight--but was seldom satisfied. I am not nearly so obsessed (even though I also regard an optimalweight-to- power ratio as important), but if, like Vince, you want to reachsome ultimate goal, then "back to the drawing board," as you put it, is theonly way to get there. Vince, too, could not imagine a way to reduce weightfurther, and then, perhaps years later, he would figure out a way. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod Weights Bill, While I took a poke @ building the rod, I certainly didn't think that I was going to be "bang on" to what Marinaro had in mind. Still, it's a starton solving what could/might be an interesting problem. I weighed theferrules and handle and other parts and for the life of me can't figure outhow he got a sub-4 oz. rod. And I only built the rod as a 2 piecer. So there is only 1 set of ferrules involved. Figured I wouldn't waste another ferrule on my "flight of fancy".Used aluminum reel seat as well, although I went with a complete reel insertof cottonwood bark. The finished rod weighs over 5 1/4 ozs. in the 2 piece configuration. Still, it casts OK. While it may have been presumptuous of me to attempt a rod based on just drawings, one wonders why he didn't post the tapers. Maybe it was his secretto keep. Does interest me though - pushing the limits of cane about a far as it will go. I don't know where I could have shaved any more cane from the rod and still had a rod that would cast a 5 wt. line. Maybe if he had not said that he built all his rods for a 5 wt. line and the rod was built for a 3 weight,it might have been possible with the taper I derived. Back to the drawing board I guess. catch ya' Don At 11:29 AM 2/11/02 -0500, you wrote: Ralph, Rods that were weighed before the fittings were mounted were not meanttosatisfy our legalistic propensities toward "truth-in-advertizing." Instead, they were weighed at that point in their construction as evidence of a rod's ability to handle a fly line of a certain weight (back in the days when the relationship between silk line, rod length and rod weight was a relevant,determining indicator). The weight of the cane, alone (relative to a rod's length), told a customer what to expect of that rod's action. Vince, did not like that system either, but it was because he believed sofervently that hardware itself was bound to alter a rod's action. So hebuilt his lightest rods with small grips, cork reel seats (or balsa),mounted with light aluminum rings, and only a couple coats of very thinvarnish. Then he would weigh. Vince spent many, many years of trial-and-error before he was able to obtain the the "magic" combination of strength and minimum weight in the cane.Everything depends upon how the shape (trajectory) of the convex tapers are managed within each of the rod's sections. One does not simply look at his drawings in "The Ring of The Rise" and then go build the rod. You can build a good, fishable rod, no doubt, but you probably will not have built thevery lightest rod that COULD be built. That was what Vince spent yearssearching out. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph W. Moon" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:45 AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights Don It was my understanding that the rod weight was figured before fittings. I always thought that was a stupid idea, because how couldanybody ever check it out without tearing the rod to pieces. Ralph Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Some time ago there was a discussion of when rods should beweighed.Just finished up my rendition of the tapers drawings that Vince Marinaro included in the "Ring of the Rise". He says that the rod should weight under 4 ozs. In my case, the raw cane without gluing or other finishing items came about at 3.3 ozs. Based on the fact that says that he builds all his rods for a 5 weight line it would seem that the rod I've made that casts a 5 weight cannot have any more cane removed anywhere and still cast a 5 wt. So did you think that he might have weighed it without fittings? Is this typical of rodmakers or lawyers or only in combination? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Feb 12 08:24:48 2002 g1CEOk802583 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:24:46 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16adrO-0002Mg-00; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:24:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Off Subject Thanks Todd.Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Off Subject Ed, Try going into help, and once in there, click the index tab. Search for"rules" and then find "e-mail message rules" Help should walk youthrough the process of setting this up. Ed Riddle wrote: Please pardon the non-rodmaking question. A while back, someone on the list provided instructions for blockingemail from an individual. I'd like to see those instructions again. I'm getting spam from one particular address practically every time Iturn this box on. I'm using Microsoft Internet Explorer and OutlookExpress. TIA.Ed -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from rkrees@mcn.net Tue Feb 12 09:08:17 2002 g1CF8G805305 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:08:16 -0600 helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16aeXT-0001HY-00; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:08:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Off Subject Go to tools Then inboa Assistant then make your choice and saveRon from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Feb 12 10:08:13 2002 g1CG8B809165 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:08:11 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:53:35 -0600 Subject: RE: Rod Weights The reason that I chose this taper of Bob's for my first rod, is that it islight, but very fast as well. This seemed contradictory to me at first, butthe rod's inertia is very low and it loads and unloads with authority. Fora newbie, trying to wean hisself from plastic, this is a great entrytaper.... Thanks for sharing it with me Bob! TAM-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod Weights Weight is very dependant on the particular taper you're building. Forinstance, Don's 3 piece rod weighed in at over 5 ounces, I just finished a3pc 7'6" 5 weight that weighs (finished wt, with reel seat, guides, grip andvarnish) 3 7/8 ounce. Of course my rods don't have a swelled but and thatis with only a 6 1/2" RHW grip and a Leonard Style Cap and Ring reel seatcourtesy Tony Larson. Now, we're talking about two entirely differenttapers, but still, about two rods that will perform essentially the same endfunction. This same rod is the rod that Troy Miller cast here and isbuilding for himself. It will lay down a flyline like a feather, yet if youneed to, you can shoot it to the moon. A little less cane, overall, butstill an efficient casting machine.I've fished many rods that weigh much more than 5 ounces, but only onethat I make does weigh in that heavy and it's a monster. I'm just morecomfortable with light rods and since I don't, personally, see any advantageto having that much cane glued to a reel seat, I make mine to be light. Ofcourse, too many "shop bites" keep me pretty gimped up and when you'resoremost of the time, you don't want to have to fight any more bamboo (oranything else) that you have too. *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- OriginalMessage ----- ; rmoon@ida.net; rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:59AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights Bill, While I took a poke @ building the rod, I certainly didn't think that I wasgoing to be "bang on" to what Marinaro had in mind. Still, it's a start onsolving what could/might be an interesting problem. I weighed the ferrulesand handle and other parts and for the life of me can't figure out how hegot a sub-4 oz. rod.And I only built the rod as a 2 piecer. So there is only 1 set of ferrulesinvolved. Figured I wouldn't waste another ferrule on my "flight of fancy".Used aluminum reel seat as well, although I went with a complete reel insertof cottonwood bark.The finished rod weighs over 5 1/4 ozs. in the 2 piece configuration. Still,it casts OK.While it may have been presumptuous of me to attempt a rod based on justdrawings, one wonders why he didn't post the tapers. Maybe it was his secretto keep.Does interest me though - pushing the limits of cane about a far as it willgo.I don't know where I could have shaved any more cane from the rod and stillhad a rod that would cast a 5 wt. line. Maybe if he had not said that hebuilt all his rods for a 5 wt. line and the rod was built for a 3 weight, itmight have been possible with the taper I derived. Back to the drawing board I guess. catch ya' Don At 11:29 AM 2/11/02 -0500, you wrote: Ralph, Rods that were weighed before the fittings were mounted were not meanttosatisfy our legalistic propensities toward "truth-in-advertizing." Instead,they were weighed at that point in their construction as evidence of a rod's ability to handle a fly line of a certain weight (back in the days when therelationship between silk line, rod length and rod weight was a relevant,determining indicator). The weight of the cane, alone (relative to a rod's length), told a customerwhat to expect of that rod's action. Vince, did not like that system either, but it was because he believed sofervently that hardware itself was bound to alter a rod's action. So hebuilt his lightest rods with small grips, cork reel seats (or balsa),mounted with light aluminum rings, and only a couple coats of very thinvarnish. Then he would weigh. Vince spent many, many years of trial-and-error before he was able to obtain the the "magic" combination of strength and minimum weight in the cane.Everything depends upon how the shape (trajectory) of the convex tapersaremanaged within each of the rod's sections. One does not simply look at hisdrawings in "The Ring of The Rise" and then go build the rod. You can builda good, fishable rod, no doubt, but you probably will not have built thevery lightest rod that COULD be built. That was what Vince spent yearssearching out. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph W. Moon" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:45 AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights Don It was my understanding that the rod weight was figured before fittings. I always thought that was a stupid idea, because how couldanybody ever check it out without tearing the rod to pieces. Ralph Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Some time ago there was a discussion of when rods should be weighed.Just finished up my rendition of the tapers drawings that Vince Marinaro included in the "Ring of the Rise". He says that the rod should weight under 4 ozs. In my case, the raw cane without gluing or other finishing items came about at 3.3 ozs. Based on the fact that says that he builds all his rods for a 5 weight line it would seem that the rod I've made that casts a 5 weight cannot haveany more cane removed anywhere and still cast a 5 wt. So did you think that he might have weighed it without fittings? Is this typical of rodmakers or lawyers or only in combination? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Feb 12 11:19:25 2002 g1CHJO813328 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:19:24 -0600 12 Feb 2002 09:19:14 PST Subject: tony larsens i have seen tony larsen's, (or is it larson), wesitebut need some assistance to find it again. wouldsomeone assist me? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Feb 12 11:32:32 2002 g1CHWV814233 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:32:31 -0600 Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:33:04 -0700 10:30:33 2002 -0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:32:24 -0700 Subject: Re: tony larsens FILETIME=[537B23B0:01C1B3EB] g1CHWW814234 Timothy,Try http://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/ timothy troester 02/12/02 10:19AM >>> i have seen tony larsen's, (or is it larson), wesitebut need some assistance to find it again. wouldsomeone assist me? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com > from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Feb 12 11:34:022002 g1CHY1814410 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:34:01 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: tony larsens timotheus, I've had success with www.rushriverrods.com Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ timothy troester wrote: i have seen tony larsen's, (or is it larson), wesitebut need some assistance to find it again. wouldsomeone assist me? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com . -- > from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Feb 12 11:46:31 2002 Received: from g1CHkU815370 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 Received: from[24.4.255.51] by web11206.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 Cc: "rod 'akers" In-Reply- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN all, thanks all for the help!timotheus --- Reed Curry wrote: timotheus,I've had success with www.rushriverrods.com ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Feb 12 12:15:01 2002 g1CIF1816765 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:15:01 -0600 id ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:07:57 -0500 id D56AMGSX; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:07:52 -0500 Subject: Re: tony larsens All, Remember that most of these can be found in the Bamboo Sources site(address below). If there is something missing there, please let meknow so that I can add it. Thanks timothy troester wrote: all, thanks all for the help! timotheus --- Reed Curry wrote: timotheus,I've had success with www.rushriverrods.com ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from caneman@clnk.com Tue Feb 12 12:47:25 2002 Received: from Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:45:57 -0600 Message-ID:From: "Bob Nunley" References:Subject: Re: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Here's Tony's sitehttp://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/ Later, Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrods http://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:19 AMSubject: tony larsens i have seen tony larsen's, (or is it larson), wesitebut need some assistance to find it again. wouldsomeone assist me? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com from hartzell@easystreet.com Tue Feb 12 13:01:24 2002 g1CJ1N819365 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:01:23 -0600 g1CIxB617733; TSmithwick@aol.com,rmoon@ida.net, rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: Re: Rod Weights Bill,There was some talk a few years ago about a book on Marinaro whichwouldinclude his tapers. This was presumably why they have been kept so secret. Isthere any more news about that?Ed Hartzell WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Don, I looked over my email on this thread, and want to apologize for being, Ithink, downright insulting to you and your efforts to try Vince's convextaper ideas. That was unintended, but also quite unnecessary. Vince was building rods only for his own use, and with the exception ofRobert Crompton, George Parker Holden, and (very late), Hoagy CarmichaelandTom Maxwell, he spoke with no other rod makers. Although he studiedeverything he could get his hands on, he spoke with no other rod makers,andcarried on his work pretty much in a vacuum. In those days (1930s-1970s), most rod makers simply did notcommunicate muchwith one another or share their information. There are some notableexceptions, of course, but Vince was unaware of most of the work that wenowknow was actually going on among amateur builders. It was really onlysubsequent to the demise of most of the commercial builders (and, ofcourse,the publication of Hoagy's book on Garrison) that makers began what wenowhave as a completely open forum. At the time Vince taught me to build (mid-seventies) I too knew no othermakers, although I now realize that, indeed, there were already quite alarge number of other amateurs out there. During the earlier decades(following "A Modern Dry Fly Code") when Vince was working out histheorieson cane rods, his fear was that some commercial builder might sieze uponhistapers and market a series of rods in his name, but without his permissionor oversight. His concern was a matter of rather intense personal pride,but it was also a matter of "fair play" and ecomomics. Vince was an absolute perfectionist in rod construction, and completelyobsessed with his ideas of fly rod design. He did not want his tapers to beknown before he had worked each one out to its ultimate conclusion, but,with the exception of perhaps two or three rods, he never quite reachedthatgoal. So, the tapers were never made available--not to me, not to Hoagy, and notto Tom Maxwell. Most of Vince's rods were, frankly, a "mess" (well, bytoday's aesthetic standards) because he had little interest in that part ofthe craft. I re-finished two of his rods and Tom Maxwell did one of them,but we were both requested, expressly, not to mike the rods' dimensions.Many of my friends still assume that I secretly harbor Vince's tapers, but Ido not. Late in Vince's life, he had it in mind to seek out a commercial maker whowould build a special series of rods in his name, while he was to retainfinal supervision in all matters of quality control. This did notmaterialize for a variety of reasons, and the tapers died along with Vince.Today, the Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum owns Vince's entire collection,but sadly, although we have his rods and other paraphernalia, there are nosurviving records, neither of his building notes nor his tapers. Vince's rods are not to be regarded as the finest rods ever built,but they certainly mark one of the most remarkable (even if, apart fromthechapter in "In The Ring of The Rise," unknown)contributions in thedevelopment of dry-fly taper design. He spent dozens of years obsessingabout rods that would be capable of delivering maximum power at minimumweight--but was seldom satisfied. I am not nearly so obsessed (even though I also regard an optimalweight-to- power ratio as important), but if, like Vince, you want to reachsome ultimate goal, then "back to the drawing board," as you put it, is theonly way to get there. Vince, too, could not imagine a way to reduceweightfurther, and then, perhaps years later, he would figure out a way. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Don & Sandy Andersen" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights Bill, While I took a poke @ building the rod, I certainly didn't think that I was going to be "bang on" to what Marinaro had in mind. Still, it's a starton solving what could/might be an interesting problem. I weighed theferrules and handle and other parts and for the life of me can't figure outhow he got a sub-4 oz. rod. And I only built the rod as a 2 piecer. So there is only 1 set of ferrules involved. Figured I wouldn't waste another ferrule on my "flight of fancy".Used aluminum reel seat as well, although I went with a complete reel insertof cottonwood bark. The finished rod weighs over 5 1/4 ozs. in the 2 piece configuration. Still, it casts OK. While it may have been presumptuous of me to attempt a rod based onjust drawings, one wonders why he didn't post the tapers. Maybe it was hissecretto keep. Does interest me though - pushing the limits of cane about a far as it will go. I don't know where I could have shaved any more cane from the rod and still had a rod that would cast a 5 wt. line. Maybe if he had not said thathe built all his rods for a 5 wt. line and the rod was built for a 3 weight,it might have been possible with the taper I derived. Back to the drawing board I guess. catch ya' Don At 11:29 AM 2/11/02 -0500, you wrote: Ralph, Rods that were weighed before the fittings were mounted were notmeant tosatisfy our legalistic propensities toward "truth-in-advertizing." Instead, they were weighed at that point in their construction as evidence of a rod's ability to handle a fly line of a certain weight (back in the days when the relationship between silk line, rod length and rod weight was a relevant,determining indicator). The weight of the cane, alone (relative to a rod's length), told a customer what to expect of that rod's action. Vince, did not like that system either, but it was because he believed sofervently that hardware itself was bound to alter a rod's action. So hebuilt his lightest rods with small grips, cork reel seats (or balsa),mounted with light aluminum rings, and only a couple coats of very thinvarnish. Then he would weigh. Vince spent many, many years of trial-and-error before he was able to obtain the the "magic" combination of strength and minimum weight in thecane.Everything depends upon how the shape (trajectory) of the convextapers are managed within each of the rod's sections. One does not simply look at his drawings in "The Ring of The Rise" and then go build the rod. You can build a good, fishable rod, no doubt, but you probably will not have built thevery lightest rod that COULD be built. That was what Vince spent yearssearching out. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph W. Moon" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:45 AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights Don It was my understanding that the rod weight was figured before fittings. I always thought that was a stupid idea, because how couldanybody ever check it out without tearing the rod to pieces. Ralph Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Some time ago there was a discussion of when rods should beweighed.Just finished up my rendition of the tapers drawings that Vince Marinaro included in the "Ring of the Rise". He says that the rod should weight under 4 ozs. In my case, the raw cane without gluing or other finishing items came about at 3.3 ozs. Based on the fact that says that he builds all his rods for a 5 weight line it would seem that the rod I've made that casts a 5 weight cannot have any more cane removed anywhere and still cast a 5 wt. So did you think that he might have weighed it without fittings? Is this typical of rodmakers or lawyers or only in combination? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from JNL123141@msn.com Tue Feb 12 13:20:36 2002 g1CJKZ820622 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:20:35 - Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:20:22 -0800 Subject: Rod weights FILETIME=[51488E70:01C1B3FA] Greetings, All,I remember talking to Bill Waara about ten years ago about rod weights. =He was pretty certain their indicated weights were as blanks but he didn'=t know why. My guess is with hardware options the weights could vary all=over the place for the same rod. Perhaps also, the old masters were ver=y weight conscious even back in those days but not overt about it. Kind =of like a silent war. Maybe its also like the manufacturers G.V.W. of a =vehicle-with an empty gas tank. Just my 2=A2. Greetings,All=, I remember talking to Bill Waara about ten years ago about r= so, the old masters were very weight conscious even back in those days&nb= from canazon@mindspring.com Tue Feb 12 14:11:59 2002 g1CKBw823409 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:11:58 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16ajHG-0000L0-00; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:11:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod weights i had the pleasure of meeting a well known maker a few weeks ago and =since my quandry at the time was adding an extra ounce ( for a reelseat) =to a 2 oz. rod, it wasn't long before we touched on the topic of =overall weight. he said that there was a old rod that he had been trying =to make for some time but he could not make it at the advertised weight. =after taking every approach imaginable, he came to the conclusion that =the listed weight of the rod had to be from the blank.mike weeks ago and since my quandry at the time was adding an extra ounce ( = overall weight. he said that there was a old rod that he had been trying = taking every approach imaginable, he came to the conclusion that the = weight of the rod had to be from the blank. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Feb 12 14:13:33 2002 g1CKDW823647 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:13:32 - Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:13:29 +0000 Clive Harrison Subject: The Lee Wulff 'Midge'Taper And first for a bit of background info......... The original specification for 'Midge'rods was laid down by theFederation of Flyfisherman during the early sixties.The preliminary standards being set as 'Midge' rods must be 6' or lessin length and have a weight of 2 ozs or less.All this recent discussionon the list of what does rod weight mean, i.e weight of the blank orweight of the finished rod made me weigh the example I have had thepleasure to measure and cast and I can state that the Farlows Lee Wulff'Midge'weighs in at less than 2 ozs for the complete rod ( courtesy ofmy wifes kitchen scales). The rod I have had to study is owned by a Clive Harrison of Gainford andto him I would like to say thanks very much in helping me to determinethis truly classic transatlantic taper (US designed and Brit built ). What do we know about this rod;The rod was designed by Lee Wulff and it was built by Sharpes ofAberdeen for Farlows of Pall Mall in London.It was also marketed andsold in the US by Norm Thomson Outfitters.The rod was in production fromat least the mid to late sixties , but possibly longer and from thenumber of rods i have ever seen for sale( less than an handful in thelast ten years ) I would say that production was very limited ?Catalogue cuts for the rod describe it as being built using SharpesArmourcane process which translates into the blanks being impregnatedand unvarnished.Legend has it that Lee Wulff 'killed'a 22lb Salmon onthe rod and trade literature says that the rod is capable of handlingfish up to 20 to 30lb................The rod was fitted with Stainless Steel Snake Guides/Rings with a HardChrome Butt Ring ( aka Stripper ).The rod is two pieces with hand machined ferrulesLength is 6'Weight is 1 7/8ozRod Whippings /tyings being Royal Blue SilkRod was available with one or two tips , complete with sack andAluminium TubeRecommended line being HCF, WF7.Note I have also found references to state that the rod for distancecasting should be used with a #5 weight line ! The above all said my initial impression of the rod was that the handlewas ridiculously small ( even with my tiny hands ) and that the roddespite being light was quite stiff and 'clubby' .The owner of the rodhad me thread up a modern #4DT line on a Hardy featherweight reel andonce the rod was cast with this line ( note how this differs from therecommended manufacturers line size ? ) the rods action softened up andwas very pleasant to cast. The rod action being a slow andthrough...........Within the constraints of Clives garden the rod could easilly cast aDT#4 line 10 yards and gave the impression of having ample reservepower..........Lee Wulff having been reported to be capable of casting90 ' with the rod . Mmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder what size of line this waswith ?........... All that said here are the dimensions of the rod ( flat to flat startingat the closest juncture to the tip ring for the top and from the femaleferrule on the butt section and measured wherever possible in 5"increments ); Tip section length 36 1/4 "2 ( say 2"below the tip ring to allow for the tube and end wrap ), .079"5, .090"10, .106"15, .118"20, .134"25, .154"30, .165"34, .181"Then ferrule and wrap Butt section length 37"2 ( say 2" below the female ferrule to allow for the ferrule length andwrap ) .197"5, .200"10, .213"15, .217"20, .224"25, .236"and then it's the handle....... Handle and Reel Seat total length 7 1/4 " ( thats correct 7 1/4 " ! )Length of handle 4" and shaped like a miniature Orvis Superfine gripranging from .453" at the front of the handle to .748" at the rear.Length of reel seat 3 1/4" parallel cork of .410" diameter with a flared/fish tail shaped end and fitted with two miniature aluminium slidingbands , each 1/8" wide with a tiny aluminium end cap at the end of thereel seat (to prevent cork wear when resting the rod on the ground........)The rod the above dimensions were extracted from was for the recordmarked as follows;Lee Wulff 'Midge'( on the top side )#832 6' 1 7/8 ozs Armour Cane ( on the next indexed side )" Made by Farlows" ( on the next indexed side ) Well thats it.............should any of you make the rod please me knowwhat you think of it ( and let me know what size lines you are using)........now all you need is a 20-30 lb fish to try it on !Tight lines.........Paul from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Tue Feb 12 14:45:40 2002 g1CKjd825563 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:45:39 - Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:45:38 +0000 Clive Harrison Subject: Lee Wulff 'Midge' Taper Addendum No 1 Further to my earlier posting I forgot to add the rod ring spacings ! Tip section has 5 guides plus tip ring indexed at;41/2",51/4",61/4",7" and 8". Butt section has one guide plus stripper/butt ring indexed at 4 1/4"and 91/4" . Thanks........Paul from richjez@enteract.com Tue Feb 12 17:27:12 2002 g1CNRB804448 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:27:11 - "Adam Vigil" , "Bob Marbert", Subject: Re: Glue/Binder/Binding Cord As a licensed clinical social worker, I will testify before the judge to spring you. Not to convince the judge I am sane???? Rich Jezioro At 12:27 AM 2/11/2002, Don Schneider wrote: Bob, Welcome aboard. You sound as insane as the rest of us on this list and should fit right in. I have this mental image though of licking a piece of bamboo just as my wife walks into my shop, the conversation should go something like this: "I knew you were over the edge and now you just proved it, kissing that damn bamboo. I m having you committed." I hope you all will come visit. Don----- Original Message -----From: Adam Vigil rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:50 PMSubject: Re: Glue/Binder/Binding Cord Bob, I remember your gorilla glue suggestion in the "Mag". To bad the magazine ended the way it did. Glad to have you on board. Most of us are good natured and we tolerate and mostly ignore our "onery" brethren and sisters. But we have a national treasure in this list and it is a lot of fun. Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: Bob Marbert Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:33 PMSubject: Glue/Binder/Binding Cord My name is Bob Marbert. I have been making rods for about six years, and so far, I've produced about thirty-five. I'm not in the business of selling rods.......my only purpose(s) are to thoroughly entertain myself and ensure my two sons are equipped in the manner to which they are accustomed. When I started, there was no one in my area to ask, so I struggled. Thank goodness for the Garrison book. It provided the concept and basics......... from there, I improvised. One of my first improvisations was in the area of adhesives. After evaluating the standards, I decided that I didn't want to mix anything harder than alka-seltzer and water. I settled on Gorilla Glue. In the fall '98 edition of Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine, my comments on it's applicability were published in Tips and Techniques under the title "King Kong Adhesives". As I read the Tips glue section, I see that some of you have tried the monkey glue, and still have questions concerning longevity and workability. Well, I can't say how much longer it will last, but I can say that right now it's six years and counting. I have experienced no problems, no failures. As for workability, I add water. Preliminary heat treating drives moisture out of the cane, and the glue needs moisture to do whatever it is that it does. After I cut the masking tape and lay my strips out, I take a wet sponge or moisened brush and reintroduce moisture before I brush on the glue. Yes, the moisture causes the glue to foam more, but it also extends the time you have to play with your section before you hang it up to dry. On my splices (my first two rods had nodes, the rest have been nodeless), I apply Gorilla Glue to one side of the splice, I lick the other side. As for binders, I built a Garrison binder to specs, ran a couple of dowells through for testing, took the binder apart, and put the parts in a drawer. I'm a confirmed hand-binder. I like to feel the line tension in my fingers, and I really did not want another piece of equipment sitting around that could only be used for one thing (it's kinda' like a cotton picker that's used two to three weeks a year, and sits idle the rest of the year). My solution.......a fly reel. I had an old fly reel that had been around the house for thirty years. It doesn't even have a name on it, but it does have an excellent drag. It's mounted on a piece of 5/8 " doweling (slide bands are brass pipe fittings) which I drop into one of the dog/stop holes on my work bench. I load it up with string, tweak the drag, and bind. Yes, my wrists do tire at times, but for one that only produces five or six rods a year, I have plenty of time to recover between rods. My binding cord.......#10 crocheting thread. It's stong enough, relatively inexpensive, available at the local craft store, and works equally well for glueing and heat treating. To all who have contributed to the tips section, thanks. I wish I had known about it six years ago. I could have saved a great deal of wear and tear between my ears had I known about this site. Oh.....one last thing. Varnish. I didn't see any mention of my brand in the tips, so I'll just mention it myself. I use Behlens Masters Water White (WW) Restoration Varnish. It's a flexible, waterproof spar varnish available at most wood working stores. from harms1@pa.net Tue Feb 12 18:26:05 2002 g1D0Q4807375 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:26:04 -0600 ,, Subject: Re: Rod Weights Ed, Yes, a book is being prepared on Vince and his rods. And, yes, the taperinformation will be included. No, the reason for "secrecy" is not due to the pending book. It is due, asI indicated in my earlier email, to Vince himself and his wishes. Hisremaining family members have only recently agreed to sell Vince'scollection to the PA Fly Fishing Museum, but not without a few importantstipulations--some of which concern the release of his tapers. Among themore important of those considerations is a request that nobody shouldprofit from the sale or use of those tapers. That issue is one we areanxious to protect,but the legal particulars still need to be worked out. Vince left no taper information behind, and we have not yet even miked mostof his rods. So this whole thing really isn't a matter of secrecy at all.It is a matter of "efficiency" within a small, voluntary organization, andthe very limited funds we have to oversee the work properly. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- ;; Subject: Re: Rod Weights Bill,There was some talk a few years ago about a book on Marinaro which would include his tapers. This was presumably why they have been kept so secret. Is there any more news about that?Ed Hartzell WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Don, I looked over my email on this thread, and want to apologize for being, I think, downright insulting to you and your efforts to try Vince's convextaper ideas. That was unintended, but also quite unnecessary. Vince was building rods only for his own use, and with the exception ofRobert Crompton, George Parker Holden, and (very late), HoagyCarmichael and Tom Maxwell, he spoke with no other rod makers. Although he studiedeverything he could get his hands on, he spoke with no other rod makers, and carried on his work pretty much in a vacuum. In those days (1930s-1970s), most rod makers simply did notcommunicate much with one another or share their information. There are some notableexceptions, of course, but Vince was unaware of most of the work thatwe now know was actually going on among amateur builders. It was really onlysubsequent to the demise of most of the commercial builders (and, of course, the publication of Hoagy's book on Garrison) that makers began what we now have as a completely open forum. At the time Vince taught me to build (mid-seventies) I too knew no othermakers, although I now realize that, indeed, there were already quite alarge number of other amateurs out there. During the earlier decades(following "A Modern Dry Fly Code") when Vince was working out his theories on cane rods, his fear was that some commercial builder might siezeupon his tapers and market a series of rods in his name, but without his permission or oversight. His concern was a matter of rather intense personal pride, but it was also a matter of "fair play" and ecomomics. Vince was an absolute perfectionist in rod construction, and completelyobsessed with his ideas of fly rod design. He did not want his tapers to be known before he had worked each one out to its ultimate conclusion, but,with the exception of perhaps two or three rods, he never quite reached that goal. So, the tapers were never made available--not to me, not to Hoagy, and not to Tom Maxwell. Most of Vince's rods were, frankly, a "mess" (well, bytoday's aesthetic standards) because he had little interest in that part of the craft. I re-finished two of his rods and Tom Maxwell did one of them, but we were both requested, expressly, not to mike the rods' dimensions.Many of my friends still assume that I secretly harbor Vince's tapers, but I do not. Late in Vince's life, he had it in mind to seek out a commercial maker who would build a special series of rods in his name, while he was to retainfinal supervision in all matters of quality control. This did notmaterialize for a variety of reasons, and the tapers died along with Vince. Today, the Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum owns Vince's entire collection, but sadly, although we have his rods and other paraphernalia, there are no surviving records, neither of his building notes nor his tapers. Vince's rods are not to be regarded as the finest rods ever built,but they certainly mark one of the most remarkable (even if, apart from the chapter in "In The Ring of The Rise," unknown)contributions in thedevelopment of dry-fly taper design. He spent dozens of yearsobsessingabout rods that would be capable of delivering maximum power atminimumweight--but was seldom satisfied. I am not nearly so obsessed (even though I also regard an optimalweight-to- power ratio as important), but if, like Vince, you want to reach some ultimate goal, then "back to the drawing board," as you put it, is the only way to get there. Vince, too, could not imagine a way to reduce weight further, and then, perhaps years later, he would figure out a way. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Don & Sandy Andersen" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:59 AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights Bill, While I took a poke @ building the rod, I certainly didn't think that I was going to be "bang on" to what Marinaro had in mind. Still, it's a start on solving what could/might be an interesting problem. I weighed theferrules and handle and other parts and for the life of me can't figure out how he got a sub-4 oz. rod. And I only built the rod as a 2 piecer. So there is only 1 set of ferrules involved. Figured I wouldn't waste another ferrule on my "flight of fancy". Used aluminum reel seat as well, although I went with a complete reel insert of cottonwood bark. The finished rod weighs over 5 1/4 ozs. in the 2 piece configuration. Still, it casts OK. While it may have been presumptuous of me to attempt a rod based on just drawings, one wonders why he didn't post the tapers. Maybe it was his secret to keep. Does interest me though - pushing the limits of cane about a far as it will go. I don't know where I could have shaved any more cane from the rod and still had a rod that would cast a 5 wt. line. Maybe if he had not said that he built all his rods for a 5 wt. line and the rod was built for a 3 weight, it might have been possible with the taper I derived. Back to the drawing board I guess. catch ya' Don At 11:29 AM 2/11/02 -0500, you wrote: Ralph, Rods that were weighed before the fittings were mounted were not meant to satisfy our legalistic propensities toward "truth-in-advertizing." Instead, they were weighed at that point in their construction as evidence of a rod's ability to handle a fly line of a certain weight (back in the days when the relationship between silk line, rod length and rod weight was a relevant, determining indicator). The weight of the cane, alone (relative to a rod's length), told a customer what to expect of that rod's action. Vince, did not like that system either, but it was because he believed so fervently that hardware itself was bound to alter a rod's action. So he built his lightest rods with small grips, cork reel seats (or balsa),mounted with light aluminum rings, and only a couple coats of very thin varnish. Then he would weigh. Vince spent many, many years of trial-and-error before he was ableto obtain the the "magic" combination of strength and minimum weight in the cane. Everything depends upon how the shape (trajectory) of the convex tapers are managed within each of the rod's sections. One does not simply look at his drawings in "The Ring of The Rise" and then go build the rod. You can build a good, fishable rod, no doubt, but you probably will not have built the very lightest rod that COULD be built. That was what Vince spent years searching out. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Ralph W. Moon" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:45 AMSubject: Re: Rod Weights Don It was my understanding that the rod weight was figured before fittings. I always thought that was a stupid idea, because how couldanybody ever check it out without tearing the rod to pieces. Ralph Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Some time ago there was a discussion of when rods should be weighed. Just finished up my rendition of the tapers drawings that Vince Marinaro included in the "Ring of the Rise". He says that the rod should weight under 4 ozs. In my case, the raw cane without gluing or other finishing items came about at 3.3 ozs. Based on the fact that says that he builds all his rods for a 5 weight line it would seem that the rod I've made that casts a 5 weight cannot have any more cane removed anywhere and still cast a 5 wt. So did you think that he might have weighed it without fittings? Is this typical of rodmakers or lawyers or only in combination? catch ya' Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Feb 12 21:29:59 2002 g1D3Tw811406 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:29:58 -0600 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:29:50 -0500 Subject: Joke delete if no sense of humor! Standing at the edge of the lake, a man saw a woman flailing about in the deep water. Unable to swim, the man screamed for help. A trout fisherman ran up. The man said, "My wife is drowning and I can't swim. Please save her. I'll give you a hundred dollars." The fisherman dove into the water. In ten powerful strokes,he reached the woman, put his arm around her, and swam back to shore. Depositing her at the feet of the man, the fisherman said,"Okay, where's my hundred dollars?" The man said, "Look, when I saw her going down for the third time, Ithought it was my wife. But this is my mother-in-law." The fisherman reached into his pocket and said,"Just my luck. How much do I owe you?" mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from b2g@jps.net Tue Feb 12 22:03:31 2002 g1D43U812367 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:03:30 - id 16aqdk-0005YW-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:03:29 -0800 Subject: Beveller Mill Cutters List, Can anybody point me in the direction of were I could purchase mill cuttersthat I could use in making a non-tapered beveller. The bore of the cutterswould need to be 5/8 of an inch with a key slot in it (if I am not wishing because I think I remember someone posted this kind of info before. For anexample of what mill cutters I am looking for one could look at thebevellers on the Golden Witch web page. I just about got everything puttogether to make a beveller (total cost so far $0) and that is except themill cutter which I believe will be my only expense. Also one more technical question. Would running the mill cutters on the themotor shaft at 1725 RPM be enough or should I step up the the speed of thecutters with a shaft, belt, and pulley system? The reason why I ask is ifyou look at the photographs of different bevellers the cutters are mountedon the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP motor that runs approx.1725 RPM. If any one can help let me know. Thanks in advance. Robert H. List, Can = in the direction of were I could purchase mill cutters that I could use = 5/8 of an inch with a key slot in it (if I am not wishing for to much) = mill cutters I am looking for one could look at the bevellers on the = beveller (total cost so far $0) and that is except the mill cutter which = believe will be my only expense. Also = = shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP motor that runs approx. advance. Robert = H. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Feb 13 01:42:06 2002 g1D7g5815990 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:42:05 - Subject: Lee Wulff Taper Addendum No 2 Please note that there is a missing measurement from the taper as postedto the list on 2nd Feb......... Butt Section 30 .238" Apologies.........Paul from bob@downandacross.com Wed Feb 13 08:20:22 2002 g1DEKK822434 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:20:20 - Subject: RE: Beveller Mill Cutters Robert:I can only tell you answers based on what the experts have told me regardingfinishing mills and cutter speeds.-I would look at MSC or Travers to see if they have the cutters. Travers iswhere I got quad cutters for the Bellinger mill I once owned. It had a oneinch 60 and 45 degree cutters (see Travers Catalog p. 230). I only see 1 and1.25" hole diameters available.-As far as speeds go, the suggested speeds should be somewhere around5700rpms. I would also recommend a 1 to 1.5 HP motor.You really need to get a hold of Chris Lucker or Ed Hartzell if you want toknow what's best. They are the real experts. My mill is still a long wayoff, taking back seat to the beveler I am working on. Let us know how itturns out.Just in case anyone wants to see the Orvis mill and cutters from the 1974catalog, I scanned them into a pdf. It is 750K, so maybe not everyone wantsto download the 3 pages of shop photos and text. I offer it only for sharinginformation. I will only have it up on the site until tonight, because I amnot sure what the legality of posting that info is.http://www.downandacross.com/orvis1974.pdfGood luck,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:02 PM Subject: Beveller Mill Cutters List, Can anybody point me in the direction of were I could purchase millcutters that I could use in making a non-tapered beveller. The bore of thecutters would need to be 5/8 of an inch with a key slot in it (if I am notwishing for to much) to fit the shaft of the motor. I looked in thearchives because I think I remember someone posted this kind of info before. bevellers on the Golden Witch web page. I just about got everything puttogether to make a beveller (total cost so far $0) and that is except themill cutter which I believe will be my only expense. Also one more technical question. Would running the mill cutters on thethe motor shaft at 1725 RPM be enough or should I step up the the speed ofthe cutters with a shaft, belt, and pulley system? The reason why I ask isif you look at the photographs of different bevellers the cutters aremounted on the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP motor thatrunsapprox. 1725 RPM. If any one can help let me know. Thanks in advance. Robert H. can only tell you answers based on what the experts have told me = finishing mills and cutter speeds. look at MSC or Travers to see if they have the cutters. Travers is where = quad cutters for the Bellinger mill I once owned. It had a one inch 60 = degree cutters (see Travers Catalog p. 230). I only see 1 and 1.25" hole = diameters available. speeds go, the suggested speeds should be somewhere around 5700 rpms. I= also recommend a 1 to 1.5 HP motor. need to get a hold of Chris Lucker or Ed Hartzell if you want to know = best. They are the real experts. My mill is still a long way off, taking = out. anyone wants to see the Orvis mill and cutters from the 1974 catalog, I = them into a pdf. It is 750K, so maybe not everyone wants to download the = of shop photos and text. I offer it only for sharing information. I will = have it up on the site until tonight, because I am not sure what the = posting that info is. http://www.downandacr=oss.com/orvis1974.pdf luck,Bob HolderSent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:02 = RodmakersSubject: Beveller Mill =CuttersList, Can = me in the direction of were I could purchase mill cutters that I could = 5/8 of an inch with a key slot in it (if I am not wishing for to much) = mill cutters I am looking for one could look at the bevellers on the = beveller (total cost so far $0) and that is except the mill cutter = believe will be my only expense. Also = mounted on the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP motor that = advance. H. from lblove@omniglobal.net Wed Feb 13 08:41:38 2002 g1DEfb824023 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:41:37 - (63.71.237.137) Subject: RE: Beveller Mill Cutters --=====_101361111818467=_ Hi Bob,what diameter of cutters are you spinning at 5700 rpm??rpm doesn't mean that much to me with out cutter size, as the threefactors of cutting speed are surface feet per minute, rpm, and cutter=diameterall have a lot to do with one another. Change one and the other disclaimer, the above formula is for imperial units not metric After figuring out the sfm and rpm then the chip load per toothand chip load per revolution can be figured. from these numbersthen the inches per minute of feed can be determined. I always thought it funny that you have surface feet per minuteand then the feed is figured in inches per minute on milling machinesand inches per revolution on a lathe... Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 2/13/02 at 8:32 AM Bob Maulucci wrote:-As far as speeds go, the suggested speeds should be somewhere around5700=rpms. --=====_101361111818467=_ Hi Bob,what diameter of cutters are you spinning at 5700 rpm??rpm doesn't mean that much to me with outcutter size, as the threefactors of cutting speed are surface feetper Change one and the other rpm=sfm*12/3.14*cutter diametersimplified is rpm=sfm*3.82/cutter diameter.disclaimer, the above formula is for imperialunits not metric After figuring out the sfm and rpm then thechip load per toothand chip load per revolution can be from these numbersthen the inches per minute of feed can be determined. I always thought it funny that you havesurface feet per minuteand then the feed is figured ininches per minute on milling machinesand inches perrevolution on a lathe... Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR***********On 2/13/02 at 8:32 AM Bob Maulucci wrote: -As far as speeds go, the suggested speeds should be somewhere around 5700 rpms. --=====_101361111818467=_-- from Jkvseafood@aol.com Wed Feb 13 10:17:41 2002 g1DGHf828566 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:17:41 - for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:17:12 - MAILINID74-0213111724; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:17:24 -0500 Subject: leonard thread hello guys,a friend wants me to refinish his 13ft leonard rod. red wraps. which threadtype and color is closest to the orignal? is there a place on the web where ican research for myself. m sinclairs rod rest. hndbk. didn't show leonards.thanks again, john from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Feb 13 10:24:27 2002 g1DGOR829060 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:24:27 -0600 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:24:06 -0500 0213112406; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:24:06 -0500 Subject: Quadrate Questions List, I am building a quadrate for my second rod but I am not sure about some ofthe details: Ferrules – Can square ferrules be purchased, if so where? Or, dostandard ferrules need to be modified and made square? Binding – Should a Garrison style binder not be used? If not, what arethe alternatives? Tip Top – I assume nothing special here other than rounding the blankwhere the tip top tube will fit, or is there another way? Tapers – from what I have read if you convert a hex taper usingequivalent cross section the resulting quad taper will be faster, if youconvert the hex taper using stress the resulting quad taper will be slower. Anyone have experience with this? I converted a Para 15 taper usingequivalent stress and I don't think I would not want it to be slower than thehex design. Enamel – Is there a problem with removing power fibers when makingthe outer side flat? Seems like more enamel will have to be removed thanwith a hex. What else? Any other advice would be appreciated. BTW, I finished building my quad forms and can provide details if anyone isinterested. Kyle from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Wed Feb 13 11:38:38 2002 g1DHcb810622 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:38:37 - g1DHcQd16635; "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Hey! Those guys don't look like they're from China! Brian Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:32 AMSubject: RE: Beveller Mill Cutters Robert:I can only tell you answers based on what the experts have told me =regarding finishing mills and cutter speeds.-I would look at MSC or Travers to see if they have the cutters. =Travers is where I got quad cutters for the Bellinger mill I once owned. =It had a one inch 60 and 45 degree cutters (see Travers Catalog p. 230). =I only see 1 and 1.25" hole diameters available.-As far as speeds go, the suggested speeds should be somewhere around =5700 rpms. I would also recommend a 1 to 1.5 HP motor.You really need to get a hold of Chris Lucker or Ed Hartzell if you =want to know what's best. They are the real experts. My mill is still a =long way off, taking back seat to the beveler I am working on. Let us =know how it turns out.Just in case anyone wants to see the Orvis mill and cutters from the =1974 catalog, I scanned them into a pdf. It is 750K, so maybe not =everyone wants to download the 3 pages of shop photos and text. I offer =it only for sharing information. I will only have it up on the site =until tonight, because I am not sure what the legality of posting that = http://www.downandacross.com/orvis1974.pdfGood luck,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:02 PM Subject: Beveller Mill Cutters List, Can anybody point me in the direction of were I could purchase mill =cutters that I could use in making a non-tapered beveller. The bore of =the cutters would need to be 5/8 of an inch with a key slot in it (if I =am not wishing for to much) to fit the shaft of the motor. I looked in =the archives because I think I remember someone posted this kind of info =before. For an example of what mill cutters I am looking for one could =look at the bevellers on the Golden Witch web page. I just about got =everything put together to make a beveller (total cost so far $0) and =that is except the mill cutter which I believe will be my only expense. Also one more technical question. Would running the mill cutters on =the the motor shaft at 1725 RPM be enough or should I step up the the =speed of the cutters with a shaft, belt, and pulley system? The reason =why I ask is if you look at the photographs of different bevellers the =cutters are mounted on the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP =motor that runs approx. 1725 RPM. If any one can help let me know. =Thanks in advance. Robert H. China! Brian ----- Original Message ----- Maulucci Sent: Wednesday, February 13, = AMSubject: RE: Beveller Mill =Cutters Robert:I can only tell you answers based on what the = told me regarding finishing mills and cutter =speeds. look at MSC or Travers to see if they have the cutters. Travers is = quad cutters for the Bellinger mill I once owned. It had a one inch 60 = degree cutters (see Travers Catalog p. 230). I only see 1 and 1.25" = diameters available. speeds go, the suggested speeds should be somewhere around 5700 rpms.= also recommend a 1 to 1.5 HP motor. need to get a hold of Chris Lucker or Ed Hartzell if you want to know = best. They are the real experts. My mill is still a long way off, = out. case anyone wants to see the Orvis mill and cutters from the 1974 = scanned them into a pdf. It is 750K, so maybe not everyone wants to = the 3 pages of shop photos and text. I offer it only for sharing = I will only have it up on the site until tonight, because I am not = the legality of posting that info is. http://www.downandacr=oss.com/orvis1974.pdf luck,Bob HolderSent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:02 = RodmakersSubject: Beveller Mill =CuttersList, point me in the direction of were I could purchase mill cutters that = need to be 5/8 of an inch with a key slot in it (if I am not wishing = put together to make a beveller (total cost so far $0) and that is = the mill cutter which I believe will be my only =expense. ask is if you look at the photographs of different = cutters are mounted on the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP= H. from CALucker@aol.com Wed Feb 13 11:50:16 2002 g1DHoF811888 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:50:15 - Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters In a message dated 2/12/02 8:04:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, b2g@jps.netwrites: Also one more technical question. Would running the mill cutters on the motor shaft at 1725 RPM be enough or should I step up the speed of the cutters with a shaft, belt, and pulley system? The reason why I ask is if you look at the photographs of different bevellers the cutters aremounted on the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP motor that runsapprox. 1725 RPM. If any one can help let me know. Thanks in advance The rpm's are not the sole issue -- you need to think about the relationship between rpms and the diameter of the cutters. For example, in the mid 80's at least, Charlie Jenkins used 2 inch three wing Sears shaper cutters that he custom ground and ran at 9,000 rpm. Dickerson used 2.75 inch cutters and three inch cutters running at 5749.9 rpm. If you do the math, you will see that the surface speed of the three inch cutters at 5750 is not far from the surface speed of the two inch cutters at 9000 rpm. One quarter horse is too light. Try 3/4 to 1.5 horse. Three quarter horse is the lightest I have ever used. A BIG motor will allow you to shove 2x4's through the cutters. All that being said, I would make two recommendations. Get the regular old 2.75 HSS cutters with too many teeth for wood cutters. They work fine for roughing, and even work for finals. They are the easiest to find at most any tool supply houses. They are the least expensive. They have a one inch hole, but that's okay. Get a shaper head with a one inch shaft from Mooradian (East Los Angeles) or a pair of pillow blocks and a one inch shaft. Use pulleys to step your speed up. Ten and three inch pulleys would give you the speed you need for a comfortable hogging feed rate of about one inch per second.I don't want to poo poo anyone's designs, but you know a motor shaft and bearing is not really designed to take the stresses of hogging bamboo. Also, there is runout and play in motors. Stick with one inch shafts. You ill be pleased with the big squares of bamboo you can shove through the cutters ina single pass. You will pity the guys taking light cuts with routers.Use a bed of MDF (medium density fiberboard). You will need to make a relief roughing mill, you will not need to make manu adjustments in cutting depth, however, in the few of these type roughers I made I allowed the bed to be shimmed so that the bed could be raised. But, you will probably find that rough sixties about 0.220 will suit you fine.Chris Lucker In a message dated 2/12/02 8:04:06 PM PacificStandard Time, b2g@jps.net writes: Also one more technical RPM be enough or should I step up the speed of the cutters with a shaft, photographs of different bevellers the cutters are mounted on the shaft ofa common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP motor that runs approx. 1725 advance The rpm's are not the sole issue -- you need to think about the relationship mid 80's at least, Charlie Jenkins used 2 inch three wing Sears shaper you do the math, you will see that the surface speed of the three inchcutters at 5750 is not far from the surface speed of the two inch cuttersat 9000 rpm. you to shove 2x4's through the cutters. easiest to find at most any tool supply houses. They are the least expensive. one inch shaft from Mooradian (East Los Angeles) or a pair of pillow blocks and three inch pulleys would give you the speed you need for a comfortablehogging feed rate of about one inch per second.I don't want to poo poo anyone's designs, but you know a motor shaft and taking light cuts with routers. be a roughing mill, you will not need to make manu adjustments in cuttingdepth, however, in the few of these type roughers I made I allowed the bed to that rough sixties about 0.220 will suit you fine.Chris Lucker from CALucker@aol.com Wed Feb 13 11:54:37 2002 g1DHsa812274 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:54:36 - Subject: Re: leonard thread In a message dated 2/13/02 8:18:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, Jkvseafood@aol.com writes: a friend wants me to refinish his 13ft leonard rod. red wraps. which thread type and color is closest to the orignal? Gudebrod 2/0 626, if the rod is a "Red Wrap"Chris Lucker In a message dated 2/13/02 8:18:31 AM PacificStandard Time, Jkvseafood@aol.com writes: a friend wants me torefinish his 13ft leonard rod. red wraps. which thread type and color isclosest to the orignal? Gudebrod 2/0 626, if the rod is a "Red Wrap"Chris Lucker from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Feb 13 11:56:12 2002 g1DHuB812583 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:56:11 - Subject: Re: Lee Wulff Taper Addendum No 2 Oooooooooooops again !The posting should have read the measurement missing from the 12th febposting and not the 2nd ( cos there wasn't one on that day ).....Pleaseaccept my apologies.....Paul "paul.blakley" wrote: Please note that there is a missing measurement from the taper as postedto the list on 2nd Feb......... Butt Section 30 .238" Apologies.........Paul from LambersonW@missouri.edu Wed Feb 13 13:44:26 2002 g1DJiP819037 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:44:25 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:messageSubject: RE: Quadrate Questions Thread-Topic: Quadrate QuestionsThread-Index: AcG0q4kSThZzkSCbEdaKfwBglD88hQAGmDZw g1DJiP819038 I am not aware of the availability of square ferrules, but it is possible to buyferrules with four tabs. Tony Larson has nice ones. http://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/ Some builders of quads have commented that the sections don't rollsmoothly in a Garrison style binder. I use a Smithwick binder; a Milward stylefour- string binder would probably be better. http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tips/milward.gif I usually square the tip top over a piece of square stock filed to a point. That fits with my experience. I have compensated by choosing moderatelyfast action rods, the powerful Dickersons for example, to convert by stress. It has worked pretty good. You will lose some power fibers if you sand the outside flat, especially at thebutt. It is a considerable amount. It is possible to sand the flats andmaintain the radius of the bamboo, I do this even for hex rods. An easy wayto accomplish it is to tape a piece of coarse sandpaper to a 2" diameter pipeand sand a concave curvature in a hard rubber sanding block. I have done thecalculations to correct for leaving the curvature, and I think it is also in BobMilward's book. Other advice, be careful of the edges of the strips, they are very fragile. Beprepared to produce some extra strips, I usually expect to throw away abouthalf the strips when building quads because a fiber will peel off the corner, ora scarf will chip. Good luck! Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Quadrate Questions List, I am building a quadrate for my second rod but I am not sure about some ofthe details: Ferrules – Can square ferrules be purchased, if so where? Or, dostandard ferrules need to be modified and made square? Binding – Should a Garrison style binder not be used? If not, what arethe alternatives? Tip Top – I assume nothing special here other than rounding the blankwhere the tip top tube will fit, or is there another way? Tapers – from what I have read if you convert a hex taper usingequivalent cross section the resulting quad taper will be faster, if youconvert the hex taper using stress the resulting quad taper will be slower. Anyone have experience with this? I converted a Para 15 taper usingequivalent stress and I don't think I would not want it to be slower than thehex design. Enamel – Is there a problem with removing power fibers when makingthe outer side flat? Seems like more enamel will have to be removed thanwith a hex. What else? Any other advice would be appreciated. BTW, I finished building my quad forms and can provide details if anyone isinterested. Kyle from aport@si.rr.com Wed Feb 13 14:23:22 2002 g1DKNL821174 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:23:22 - Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:23:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters I always thought it funny that you have surface feet per minuteand then the feed is figured in inches per minute on milling machinesand inches per revolution on a lathe... Brad,As a retired math teacher, I can tell you why that is. So we can =answer kids when they ask "Why do we need to know this stuff?"*BSEG* Art I always thought it funny that you have= feet per minuteand then the feed is figured in = minute on milling machinesand inches per = lathe... Brad, stuff?"*BSEG* Art from b2g@jps.net Wed Feb 13 16:50:09 2002 g1DMo8829042 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:50:08 - helo=default) id 16b8E2-0007f6-00; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:50:06 -0800 Subject: RE: Beveller Mill Cutters Well Chris and the rest of the list members that responded. I did find the cutters that have been suggested. Luckily I did find that Ican get the locally and at a comparable price that is listed on the MCS website. Also I think I am going to change my design some from what I haveread so far and add a shaft, pulley, and belt system to step up the speed ofthe cutters. So back to the drawing board. Also Chris I am going to haveto contact you later and ask a few questions since more than one personsuggested that I talk to you about this subject. Thanks again foreveryone's help in recalibrating my compass. Robert H.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters In a message dated 2/12/02 8:04:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,b2g@jps.netwrites: Also one more technical question. Would running the mill cutters on themotor shaft at 1725 RPM be enough or should I step up the speed of thecutters with a shaft, belt, and pulley system? The reason why I ask is ifyou look at the photographs of different bevellers the cutters are mountedon the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP motor that runs approx.1725 RPM. If any one can help let me know. Thanks in advance The rpm's are not the sole issue -- you need to think about therelationship between rpms and the diameter of the cutters. For example, inthe mid 80's at least, Charlie Jenkins used 2 inch three wing Sears shapercutters that he custom ground and ran at 9,000 rpm. Dickerson used 2.75inch cutters and three inch cutters running at 5749.9 rpm. If you do themath, you will see that the surface speed of the three inch cutters at 5750is not far from the surface speed of the two inch cutters at 9000 rpm. One quarter horse is too light. Try 3/4 to 1.5 horse. Three quarterhorse is the lightest I have ever used. A BIG motor will allow you to shove2x4's through the cutters. All that being said, I would make two recommendations. Get the regularold 2.75 HSS cutters with too many teeth for wood cutters. They work fine most any tool supply houses. They are the least expensive. They have a oneinch hole, but that's okay. Get a shaper head with a one inch shaft fromMooradian (East Los Angeles) or a pair of pillow blocks and a one inchshaft. Use pulleys to step your speed up. Ten and three inch pulleys wouldgive you the speed you need for a comfortable hogging feed rate of aboutoneinch per second.I don't want to poo poo anyone's designs, but you know a motor shaft andbearing is not really designed to take the stresses of hogging bamboo.Also, there is runout and play in motors. Stick with one inch shafts. Youill be pleased with the big squares of bamboo you can shove through thecutters in a single pass. You will pity the guys taking light cuts withrouters.Use a bed of MDF (medium density fiberboard). You will need to make arelief for the tips of the cutters into the MDF. The relief will give you aguide for where the fence and spring loaded guides go. Since this will be aroughing mill, you will not need to make manu adjustments in cutting depth,however, in the few of these type roughers I made I allowed the bed to beshimmed so that the bed could be raised. But, you will probably find thatrough sixties about 0.220 will suit you fine.Chris Lucker Chris and the rest of the list members that =responded. read so far and add a shaft, pulley, and belt system to step up the = everyone's help in recalibrating my compass. H. CALucker@aol.comSent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002= Re: Beveller Mill CuttersIn a messagedated = PM Pacific Standard Time, b2g@jps.net writes: cutters on the motor shaft at 1725 RPM be enough or should I step up = why I ask is if you look at the photographs of different bevellers = cutters are mounted on the shaft of a common TEFC, 56C face, 1/4+ HP= Thanks in advanceThe rpm's are not the sole = need to think about the relationship between rpms and the diameter of = inch three wing Sears shaper cutters that he custom ground and ran at = the three inch cutters at 5750 is not far from the surface speed of = regular old 2.75 HSS cutters with too many teeth for wood = to find at most any tool supply houses. They are the least expensive. = shaft from Mooradian (East Los Angeles) or a pair of pillow blocks and = pulleys would give you the speed you need for a comfortable hogging = of about one inch per second.I don't want to poo poo anyone's = you know a motor shaft and bearing is not really designed to take the = guys taking light cuts with routers.Use a bed of MDF (medium = not need to make manu adjustments in cutting depth, however, in the = these type roughers I made I allowed the bed to be shimmed so that the = from bob@downandacross.com Wed Feb 13 17:02:40 2002 g1DN2d829699 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:02:39 -0600 Subject: RE: Quadrate Questions HI Bill:I sent a post to Robert earlier that never made it to the list because I wassending it from work. It is extremely scary when I read your post. Imentioned every thing you said here. Tony, Smithwick Binder, Milward binder,Round sanding block, and the Milward book. Maybe Robert could resend thattothe list just for kicks. Man, great mind think alike!(And sometimes I get lucky)Bob M. -----Original Message----- R. Subject: RE: Quadrate Questions I am not aware of the availability of square ferrules, but it ispossible to buy ferrules with four tabs. Tony Larson has niceones. http://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/ Some builders of quads have commented that the sections don't rollsmoothly in a Garrison style binder. I use a Smithwick binder; aMilward style four- string binder would probably be better.http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tips/milward.gif I usually square the tip top over a piece of square stock filed to a point. That fits with my experience. I have compensated by choosingmoderately fast action rods, the powerful Dickersons for example,to convert by stress. It has worked pretty good. You will lose some power fibers if you sand the outside flat,especially at the butt. It is a considerable amount. It ispossible to sand the flats and maintain the radius of the bamboo, Ido this even for hex rods. An easy way to accomplish it is to tapea piece of coarse sandpaper to a 2" diameter pipe and sand aconcave curvature in a hard rubber sanding block. I have done thecalculations to correct for leaving the curvature, and I think itis also in Bob Milward's book. Other advice, be careful of the edges of the strips, they are veryfragile. Be prepared to produce some extra strips, I usuallyexpect to throw away about half the strips when building quadsbecause a fiber will peel off the corner, or a scarf will chip. Good luck! Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Quadrate Questions List, I am building a quadrate for my second rod but I am not sure aboutsome of the details: Ferrules – Can square ferrules be purchased, if so where?Or, do standard ferrules need to be modified and made square? Binding – Should a Garrison style binder not be used? Ifnot, what are the alternatives? Tip Top – I assume nothing special here other than roundingthe blank where the tip top tube will fit, or is there another way? Tapers – from what I have read if you convert a hex taperusing equivalent cross section the resulting quad taper will befaster, if you convert the hex taper using stress the resulting quad taper will be slower. Anyone have experience with this? Iconverted a Para 15 taper using equivalent stress and I don't thinkI would not want it to be slower than the hex design. Enamel – Is there a problem with removing power fibers whenmaking the outer side flat? Seems like more enamel will have to beremoved than with a hex. What else? Any other advice would be appreciated. BTW, I finished building my quad forms and can provide details ifanyone is interested. Kyle from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 13 17:43:07 2002 g1DNh4801324 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:43:05 - Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters It's cruel and un natural to threaten kids with the need to know feet and inches and down right diabolical to make them use it in fractions [:-)] Tony At 03:21 PM 2/13/02 -0500, arthur port wrote: I always thought it funny that you have surface feet per minuteand then the feed is figured in inches per minute on milling machinesand inches per revolution on a lathe... Brad,As a retired math teacher, I can tell you why that is. So we can answer kids when they ask "Why do we need to know this stuff?"*BSEG*Life's just perverse, that's why!Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html Yesterday it worked.Today it is not working.Windows is like that. Unknown/*************************************************************************/ from darrell@vFish.net Wed Feb 13 17:45:15 2002 g1DNjE801493 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:45:14 - Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:45:09 -0600 Subject: RE: leonard thread I think Chris means the 326... This will work okay, but if you want it tolook like original, I have a vintage Chinese red silk that is spot on. Regards, Darrell LeeAnglers Collectibles Exchangehttp://www.vfish.netInfo & Int'l Line: (323)465-4551 U.S. Toll-Free Order Line (877) 452-2420 ==================Angling, collecting & rod making books at:http://www.vfish.net/files/acebooks7.PDF================== -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: leonard thread In a message dated 2/13/02 8:18:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,Jkvseafood@aol.com writes: a friend wants me to refinish his 13ft leonard rod. red wraps. whichthread type and color is closest to the orignal? Gudebrod 2/0 626, if the rod is a "Red Wrap"Chris Lucker on. Regards,Darrell LeeAnglers 452- CALucker@aol.comSent: Wednesday, February 13, 20029:54 = threadIn a message dated 2/13/02 8:18:31 AM= Standard Time, Jkvseafood@aol.com writes:a friend wants me to refinish his 13ft leonard rod. red = orignal?Gudebrod 2/0 626, if the rod is a Wrap"Chris Lucker from channer@frontier.net Wed Feb 13 17:48:34 2002 g1DNmX801808 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:48:33 - for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:48:40 - Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Tony;Right thinking folk everywhere know that the metric system is theinstrument of the devil! LOL!!!!!!!! Tony Young wrote: It's cruel and un natural to threaten kids with the need to know feet andinches and down right diabolical to make them use it in fractions [:-)] Tony from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 13 18:06:02 2002 g1E060802572 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:06:00 - Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Aw gee, I feel like Mephistopheles now [:-)] Tony At 04:48 PM 2/13/02 -0700, channer wrote: Tony;Right thinking folk everywhere know that the metric system is theinstrument of the devil! LOL!!!!!!!! Tony Young wrote: It's cruel and un natural to threaten kids with the need to know feet andinches and down right diabolical to make them use it in fractions [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Feb 13 18:59:15 2002 g1E0xE804055 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:59:14 - Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Robert, that speed is too slow. You should shoot for around 6,000 RPM. I run mine at around 3,500RPM and it's still a little too slow.The cutters tend to grab the cane and pull it out of your hands.If you run it around 6,000 RPM, this will eliminate this. Dave L check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site- http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Feb 13 19:08:04 2002 g1E183804361 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:08:03 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16bANT-0006y5-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:07:59 -0500 Subject: Heat Gun Oven After much hand wringing, I've about decided to go with Frank =Neunemann's design for a heat gun oven to be used for tempering and =glue-up. Any comments, pro or con, is appreciated...off list is OK.TIAEd After much hand wringing, I've about = OK.TIAEd from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 13 19:37:53 2002 g1E1bq807579 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:37:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Quadrate Questions Kyle - Since the other questions have been answered, I'll just take on a couple. On the matter of taper conversion, I would suggest you stay away from the stress method. Stresses in a quad are much lower and the rod will bemuch softer. Hex D X .93 will give you equal areas, and the rod will cast the line weight, but will feel slower, at least on lighter, shorter rods. I will admit to having no experience with heavier rods. I have had better luck with D X .95 as the conversion factor, the rods having a feel closer to the hex, but with a big reserve of power. That may not be the case with a rod like a para 15, but If I were going to build one, that's where I would start. Worst case scenario, you wind up with a line weight heavier. All of this flies in the face of mathmatics and theory, but that is what I have seen in my own rods and those of others. The easiest way around the ferrule problem is to use an oversized truncated ferrule. Build up the ferrule seat area with cane or hardwood strips, and size the ferrule so you only slightly round the corners of the blank. It works and looks OK, and the weight is kept down by the short ferrules.I would not have suggested a Quad as your second rod. You will find the strips have a tendency to wiggle in the forms and mess up the angles, also, the edges are fragile and will want to split. Keep the strips in the deepest section of the form as you work, and keep your plane very sharp. Straighten the strips as well as you can before planing, as this will help them sit well in the forms. from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Wed Feb 13 19:50:51 2002 g1E1oo808685 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:50:50 - Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:50:41 -0800 Subject: Re: lathe for sale FILETIME=[0273ED20:01C1B4FA] I am selling my Taig lathe. The Taig is great for handles and ferrules, andit can do simple reel seats.I found that I like machining my own components, and now want a lathe thatis more capable for fancy reel seats and ferrules.So I am getting asherline, and selling the Taig. Please contact me off list. Jeff Schaeffer from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Wed Feb 13 20:08:04 2002 g1E283809247 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:08:03 - g1E27rd00480; Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Wasn't he one of the leads in 'CATS?'----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Aw gee, I feel like Mephistopheles now [:-)] Tony At 04:48 PM 2/13/02 -0700, channer wrote: Tony;Right thinking folk everywhere know that the metric system is theinstrument of the devil! LOL!!!!!!!! Tony Young wrote: It's cruel and un natural to threaten kids with the need to know feet and inches and down right diabolical to make them use it in fractions [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from thardy@blarg.net Wed Feb 13 20:17:09 2002 g1E2H8809630 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:17:09 - for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:17:08 - for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:17:07 -0800User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook- Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Phillipson tapers understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. After a search of the archives, I can't find any tapers for Phillipson 8.5rods. (5 or 6wts). Anyone have any they would be willing to share? Thanks,Tom Hardy Phillipson tapers After a search of the archives, I can't find any tapers for Phillipson =8.5rods. (5 or 6wts). Anyone have any they would be willing to share? Thanks,Tom Hardy from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Feb 13 20:24:57 2002 g1E2Ou810964 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:24:56 -0600 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:24:44 -0500 Subject: Quadrate Forms Content-Language: en g1E2Ou810968 List, I decided to post answers to the questions I received off list aboutthe quad forms I built. Hereês a picture of them: http://members.aol.com/kyledruey/quadform.jpg Basically, its a three barform made in much the same way the Penrose formsare made (do a web search for *Thomas Penrose bamboo* to find the link tohis website that has the form building instructions). You use the sameprocedures as outlined by Penrose, with the following modifications 1) All three bars of 0.75 inch CRS are clamped together, draw filed, anddrilled. 2) Each station has a doweling pin. The outside bars each have a set ofpush/pull screws located on the same side as the bar (they are on oppositesides with the Penrose design), with the cap screw and set screw on eitherside of the doweling pin. 3) To file the groove the middle bar is removed and the two outside barsare fastened together with the cap screws. A square mill file is glued to awooden block that has a 90 degree trough routed in it (see picture from url) http://members.aol.com/kyledruey/files.jpg 4) After filing out the groove, assemble the bars with the square,non- grooved, middle bar back in place. 5) I built a special 45 degree grooved tray for my Medved Beveler,otherwise you will have to make a special roughing form that has a similargroove as the tray (see picture from url) http://members.aol.com/kyledruey/quadbed.jpg 6) You can buy a Starrett 45 degree contact point for around $3 (MCS partnumber 58713181). You use the indicator and 45 degree contact point thesameway as with 60 degree forms, the only difference is that the indicatorreading (i) is exactly half of the desired groove depth (this will make sense ifyou work out the math) i = 0.5*(desired groove depth) The only exception to this is if the desired groove depth is greater thanthe diameter of the contact point, in that case the indicator reading (i) should be i = desired groove depth - 0.5*(diameter of 45 degree contact point) (again, do the math and it will make sense) 7) The dimensions for the forms and splines will be as follows apex-to-flat dimension = 0.5 * (flat-to-flat dimension) form depth = (((apex-to-flat)2)*2)0.5 i = indicator reading for form depth (see 6 above) 8) These are 6' forms with 5" stations. Butt side starts at 0.200" andends at 0.113", tip side starts at 0.113" and ends at 0.025", the slope ofthe groove is 0.00125" per inch. Not sure if the larger taper is necessary,but it made sense to me at one time. Thatês about it. It was more time consuming than making 60 degreeforms,but it wasnêt more difficult. I probably left out some critical details, sodrop me a note if you need more information. Good luck, Kyle from bob@downandacross.com Wed Feb 13 20:56:38 2002 g1E2ub815436 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:56:37 - 13 Feb 2002 21:56:28 -0500 Subject: RE: Phillipson tapers Phillipson tapersHi Tom:This was posted by Barry K a while back. Yes, I keep everything. I also havea 7.5 and 8' taper in Joe Byrd's BRMDP that I could send a TDE file of.Bob [KlingB@health.missouri.edu] Subject: Phillipson PowerPakt 8 1/2 foot 5 wt Taper, Guide Placement Not long ago I posted this taper, but I went back and re-measured, whilealso getting the guide placement. I've had a couple of requests so I'll justrepost the whole thing. This is a varnished rod, with measurements taken over the varnish. Thevarnish is not especially thick. It looks like it was ammonia toned andglued with resorcinol. It is not impregnated. Wrapped with bright yellownylon with black tipping. A really lovely rod to cast. Inches Avg of the 3 from End Flat-to-flatOf Tiptop MeasurementsLoop Just below wrap at base of tiptop 0.0785 0.09910 0.11215 0.13520 0.15125 0.15430 0.16032 3/8, above ferrule wrap 0.16235 estimated 0.17736, below ferrule wrap 0.17940 0.19545 0.21250 0.22655 0.24260 0.24165 0.24366 3/8, above ferrule wrap 0.24770, just below ferrule wrap 0.27075 0.28980 0.29985 0.31490 0.33991 1/8, above wrap at winding chk 0.36691 5/8 - cork begins95 0.375?100 0.375?102 0.375? Guide placement, inches from end of tiptop loop:5 3/811 1/21825 1/432 1/2 (at top end of ferrule)36 1/4 (at bottom end of ferrule)44 1/452 1/462 7/8Stripping guide at 72 5/8 Barry Kling Phillipson tapers Tom:This was posted by Barry K a while back. Yes, I keep everything. = have a 7.5 and 8' taper in Joe Byrd's BRMDP that I could send a TDE file = of.Bob From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu on behalf of Kling, Barry = Phillipson PowerPakt 8 1/2 foot 5 wt Taper, Guide Placement Not long ago I posted this taper, but I went back and = whilealso getting the guide placement. I've had a couple of requests = justrepost the whole thing. Thevarnish is not especially thick. It looks like it was ammonia = andglued with resorcinol. It is not impregnated. Wrapped with bright = yellownylon with black tipping. A really lovely rod to cast. 0.375? 1/21825 1/432 1/2 (at top end of ferrule)36 1/4 (at= of ferrule)44 1/452 1/462 7/8Stripping guide at 72 =5/8 Barry Kling from thardy@blarg.net Wed Feb 13 21:09:44 2002 g1E39h815991 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:09:43 - for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:09:42 - for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:09:42 -0800User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook- Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Thanks for the Phillipson tapers! What fast responses! You guys are great. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Feb 14 00:26:05 2002 g1E6Q3820670 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:26:03 - Subject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Could have been but the one I meant was basically Beelzebub's soul pimp [:-)] You know I've always wondered why America didn't go metric 200 years or so back what with the close ties with the French (sorry to mention that) during the revolution and the general distaste of things British after it was all over bar the shouting as we say here.It's always struck me as an outstanding example of a strange decision. I mean, after the English were kicked out you started driving your buggies on the wrong side of the road and I believe considered using German as the national language, it would have been the last straw to use the Frenchies means of measurement just to slam the gate shut if for no other reason. Tony At 09:07 PM 2/13/02 -0500, Brian D. Creek wrote: Wasn't he one of the leads in 'CATS?'----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:12 PMSubject: Re: Beveller Mill Cutters Aw gee, I feel like Mephistopheles now [:-)] Tony At 04:48 PM 2/13/02 -0700, channer wrote: Tony;Right thinking folk everywhere know that the metric system is theinstrument of the devil! LOL!!!!!!!! Tony Young wrote: It's cruel and un natural to threaten kids with the need to know feet and inches and down right diabolical to make them use it in fractions [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from oossg@vbe.com Thu Feb 14 07:46:33 2002 g1EDkX826097 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:46:33 - for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:44:32 - Subject: Planing Form Has anyone received their Planing Form newsletter yet?Scott from mmihalas@mindspring.com Thu Feb 14 08:05:27 2002 g1EE5R826864 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:05:27 - helo=smaug) id 16bMVp-0005dc-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:05:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing Form Regarding the Planing Form, can someone tell me who I need to contact tosubscribe? How much is it and how many times a year is it published? Isthere a web page? I have books and magazines that have the address butwantto make sure I am sending my check to the current address. Thanks, Mike Mihalas Has anyone received their Planing Form newsletter yet?Scott from canazon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 14 08:07:42 2002 g1EE7f827123 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:07:42 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16bMXy-0003YK-00; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:07:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing Form scott,i didn't get my planing form either. do you think maybe i should renew my subscription?mike from JNL123141@msn.com Thu Feb 14 08:19:21 2002 g1EEJK827710 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:19:20 - Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:19:11 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Planing Form FILETIME=[928AD8C0:01C1B562] I talked to Ron the other day and he said they were going out today or to=morrow. He was having some grief with his printer in printing the addres=s labels. john ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Planing Form Has anyone received their Planing Form newsletter yet?Scott I talked toRo= tomorrow.&n= s anyone received their Planing Form newsletteryet?Scott from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Thu Feb 14 08:26:01 2002 g1EEQ1828088 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:26:01 - id ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:14:24 -0500 Subject: Link for the Planing Form this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. from the rodmakers site:http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/pagegifs/planingf.gifMaybe we haveto convince Ron Barch to use email & such- Tom CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} from the rodmakers site: =http://w=ww.canerod.com/rodmakers/pagegifs/planingf.gif Maybe we have to convince Ron Barchto use email & such- Tom from mmihalas@mindspring.com Thu Feb 14 08:40:06 2002 g1EEe5828883 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:40:05 - helo=smaug) id 16bN3J-0002kD-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:40:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing Form Thanks to everyone who replied with subscription info for the Planing Form! Mike Mihalas from dati@selway.umt.edu Thu Feb 14 09:56:28 2002 g1EFuR803037 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:56:27 - for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:56:26 - Subject: ferrules Hello list, I have an old south bend that I am restoring. One of the male ferrules isbadly split and needs to be replaced. Can I use a nickle silver malereplacement ferrule with the original chrome plated brass female ferrulewithout problems. Also, to remain ethical, do I put my name on the rod as the personwho restored the rod or should I leave it as if it had never beenrestored? Thanks so much for your timeDarin******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Thu Feb 14 11:09:05 2002 g1EH94807315 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:09:04 - g1EH93n17350 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:09:04 - M2002021411090326542 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:09:03 - Subject: 8'6" #5 2-piece easy casting taper wanted I'm thinking of a progressive or mildly parabolic 8'6" #5 2-piece. I could try modifying a Garrison if no one on the list has a hot suggestion. -Grayson -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Thu Feb 14 11:17:51 2002 g1EHHo808179 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:17:50 - g1EHHnn18763 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:17:49 - M2002021411174913272 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:17:49 - Subject: re: cutting rings Rethinking an old thread ... I have a hard time parting in the traditional way with my mini-lathe. For parting small stock, I mounted a piece of key stock on my Dremel tool and put the key stock into the tool holder, making a poor (but not fussy) man's tool post grinder. Dremel makes a thin blade cutoff wheel that does a good job on small diameter NS tube. That worked well for me, but no way would it cut reel seat size stock, so this AM I tried to make a similar adaptation to my angle grinder. I expect to try it out tomorrow. -Grayson -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from CALucker@aol.com Thu Feb 14 11:27:14 2002 g1EHRD809553 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:27:14 - Subject: Re: leonard thread In a message dated 2/13/02 3:46:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, darrell@vFish.net writes: I think Chris means the 326... This will work okay, but if you want it to look like original, I have a vintage Chinese red silk that is spot on. He's right, Darrell, that is. I goofed up. Chris In a message dated 2/13/02 3:46:05 PM PacificStandard Time, darrell@vFish.net writes: I think Chris means the a vintage Chinese red silk that is spot on. Chris from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Thu Feb 14 14:42:11 2002 g1EKgA825974 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:42:10 - Subject: hollow rods Hello all, I'm going to dredge up an old topic, but am wondering if anybody has anyinsights into how much to add to the dimensions of the hollowed section tocompensate for the weight reduction in the hollow rod section. After doing a search of the archives, I would have to agree with somecomments that state that the balance of the rod is off when you hollow anddon't add anything to the overall dimensions. I have read Milliard's bookand the section on hollow building, but unless I missed anything, I stillcan't come up with an amount or a calculation. The graph he gives isunclear and just can't see how much to add. Tom Smithwick writes in an old post to add 2% or 3% to the overallhollowed dimensions. Does anybody have anything else to add or is thisthe accepted amount. I have tried to hollow build a Thramer 8' 4wt rod and love the rod, butthe balance is out. I planed off the pith and reduced the dimensions by athird. Seemed like a good place to start off. Rod is light in the hand,but its almost like I have to add some mass to the reel seat area tobalance the rod out. Seems to be defeating the purpose. Have not found itpractical as of yet to load up a 9wt reel with 4 wt line. Any comments or idas would be appreciated. Mark Babiy from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Feb 14 14:49:24 2002 g1EKnN827287 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:49:24 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2117.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA20010; ETAsAhQUkoK4HiaHq9gUPvTqQkH2/9XxtQIUK+RN/4eLiITe5ufRzh2qFHK18os= Subject: Re: hollow rods 14 Feb 2002 15:51:53 -0500 Suggest you read Bob Milwards book. Treats this subject quite well. Jerry Young from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Feb 14 15:00:33 2002 g1EL0W829301 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:00:32 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2117.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id NAA20470; ETAuAhUApWJHnpkOaLUvdGH4n1tOIHTCVikCFQDGOCre2I+TMlby50ZsKc2pL7TdDQ== Subject: Re: hollow rods 14 Feb 2002 15:51:53 -0500 Oops hit the send button.If you look at his charts of equal bending resistance it is just a jobof increasing the area at a given point. On a quad figure the area,increase by the factor then translate the increase in area by taking thesq. root. Found factors for determining the area of hex's in one of myold machining handbooks. Jerry Young from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 14 15:09:49 2002 g1EL9n829959 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:09:49 - for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:09:28 - 0214160928; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:09:28 -0500 Subject: Re: hollow rods Mark - I was not talking about balance with the 2-3%, but rathercompensating for a loss of casting power when the center of the rod isremoved. I don't know if there is a real rule of thumb on this, and I suspect itis influenced by the type and ammount of hollowing you do. Did you hollow anyportion of the tip? from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 14 15:10:12 2002 g1ELAB800069 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:10:11 - Subject: RE: ferrules I like the CSE ferrules from Golden Witch for South Bends. I simply replaceall the ferrules. It is a simple heat, remove the old and put the new oneson. Have them prefit to make it even easier.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: ferrules Hello list, I have an old south bend that I am restoring. One of the male ferrules isbadly split and needs to be replaced. Can I use a nickle silver malereplacement ferrule with the original chrome plated brass female ferrulewithout problems. Also, to remain ethical, do I put my name on the rod as the personwho restored the rod or should I leave it as if it had never beenrestored? Thanks so much for your timeDarin******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Thu Feb 14 15:19:58 2002 g1ELJw800931 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:19:58 - Subject: Re: hollow rods Tom, Did not hollow the tip, only the butt and I went straight throught theferrule section also. Was worried, but have fished the rod for about 2years with no adverse affects. Rod is great, but seems almost too lightin the butt and off balance. Mark from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Feb 14 15:43:26 2002 g1ELhP802476 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:43:25 - Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:43:25 PST Subject: Re: hollow rods 8' 3pc 3 wgt like the one Miles brought to SRG. I did no hollowingon tips (as usual), took the walls to .065 in the mid and .070 in thebutt with dams every 3.5" and solid under ferrules +2". I incresedthe taper on a slope from 1% to 4.5% from the top of the mid down tothe butt swell. It seems to have worked out very well (pertest-casting). I increased the butt more since a greater % is takenout to get to .070. When I've hollowed on faster tapers, I've made no adjustment and justgotten a smoother rod. --- TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Mark - I was not talking about balance with the 2-3%, but rathercompensating for a loss of casting power when the center of the rodis removed. I don't know if there is a real rule of thumb on this,and I suspect it is influenced by the type and ammount of hollowingyou do. Did you hollow any portion of the tip? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!http://greetings.yahoo.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 14 15:53:10 2002 g1ELrA803470 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:53:10 - Subject: B.C Fishing Trip OK I know some guys may find this inappropriate but here goes anyway. I am going to sponsor a fishing trip to a lodge in British Columbia this summer and I was wondering if anyone on the list may be interested in going. If you are please contact me off list and I will get you the particulars. This is a great package I have been offered and you will not believe the price either.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ OK I know some guys sponsor a fishing trip to a lodge in British Columbia this summer and I was great package I have been offered and you will not believe the priceeither.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 14 17:35:14 2002 g1ENZD806984 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:35:13 - for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:35:03 - Subject: BC WWW.BCfisherman.com http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ WWW.BCfisherman.com http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 14 18:32:57 2002 g1F0Wu808334 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:32:56 - ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:32:48 -0500 Subject: Phillipson Tapers Here is the TDE file for the 8 and 7'6" Phillipson tapers.http://www.powerfibers.com/PSON.BASI will have to dig up the original posts to give those to you who do nothave Joe's program. If you want the shareware, it is available athttp://www.direct- pest.com/brmdp/index.html rodswere posted by Rock Crenshaw and Chris McDowell. Thanks guys,Bob from saweiss@flash.net Thu Feb 14 19:46:12 2002 g1F1kC810361 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:46:12 - g1F1k5l16408 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:46:05 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrules Organization: Prodigy Internet IMHO, a non-original ferrule would automatically take it out of the categoryof restoration. If you are doing a re-finish, anything goes.Steve Hello list, I have an old south bend that I am restoring. One of the male ferrules isbadly split and needs to be replaced. Can I use a nickle silver malereplacement ferrule with the original chrome plated brass female ferrulewithout problems. Also, to remain ethical, do I put my name on the rod as the personwho restored the rod or should I leave it as if it had never beenrestored? Thanks so much for your timeDarin******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Thu Feb 14 22:09:38 2002 g1F49b813921 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:09:37 - id ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:57:59 -0500 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone whoenjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparablecomponents of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, Iwouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless itwere itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to straytoo far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from caneman@clnk.com Fri Feb 15 00:25:45 2002 g1F6Pj816223 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:25:45 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Tom,Just between you and I... if your gonna use it to fish, which is what itwas originally intended for, then what difference does it make if you putbetter components on what "MIGHT" be a $200 rod to make it a better rod.Fix it up like it should have been in the first place, and make a goodfishing rod out of it... JMHO Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone whoenjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparable components of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, Iwouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless it were itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to straytoo far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Feb 15 04:13:20 2002 g1FADI818433 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:13:18 -0600 g1FAD0338782; Subject: Re: Link for the Planing Form One of the nice things about the whole Planing Form thing is the absence ofe- stuff. You write a letter, you get an answer, you send a cheque, you get asubscription; you wait a couple of months, you get a magazine! That's nice. That's the way the world used to work in the halcyon days. I'm not a flat-earther, but there is something worthwhile about that timewhen doing business was a bit more stately sort of process. It wasn't allbeer and skittles, of course; remember that a literal translation of theword "nostalgia" is "the pain of ourselves". Send 'er out when you're ready, Ron! Peter from swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 05:33:39 2002 g1FBXd819240 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:33:39 - id 16bgcR-0002Du-00; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:33:36 -0800 Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu This issue is being pushed a bit far. This is a South Bend. It is not a rodwith lots of value. It is not going to be the subject of bitter debate overits originality. There is no intent to deceive. On the other hand if youwant a reasonably close replacement Bailey Wood at Classic SportingEnterprises in Barton VT. can probably set you up. Rick T.---------- From: "Goodmann, Tom" RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore?Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2002, 10:57 PM This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone whoenjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparablecomponents of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, Iwouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless itwere itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to straytoo far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from utzerath@execpc.com Fri Feb 15 05:58:22 2002 g1FBwL819633 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:58:21 -0600 g1FBwLP32912 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:58:21 -0600 g1FBwKh01391 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:58:20 -0600 Subject: Other handmills? Just wondering. Has anyone on the list been experimenting with hand milldesigns other than the well-regarded Morgan?Jim U from harms1@pa.net Fri Feb 15 07:14:46 2002 g1FDEj820384 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:14:45 - , Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Bob, I agree entirely. This mania for preserving the "collectors value" of anold Heddon, South Bend, Granger, Phillipson, H-I, etc. all seems prettygoofy to me. If a guy is interested in nothing but collecting and trading,then I suppose it's a different matter. But if you're interested infly-fishing, then why not turn these sow's ears into silk purses? The value of these production rods is never so great, anyhow, that one darenot change anything. On the contrary, most of those old rods looked prettyterrible right out of the box. Any one of us could build a better (andbetter-looking) rod without even half trying. So, what's the big deal? "Vanishing Scenes of Americana?" Gimme a break!Those old rods are a dime a dozen. Some were pretty good, but mostweren't.The preservationist societies and museums have already saved about all ofthem that need to be saved, and the collectors only want to trade inuntouched, original junk. As for fishing, well, go ahead and dress one ofthe old rods up if you feel like it. Otherwise, go out to your shop,duplicate an old taper (if you're fond of one of them) and fish a rod that'sboth well made and good looking. Let the games begin... . Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Tom,Just between you and I... if your gonna use it to fish, which is what it was originally intended for, then what difference does it make if you putbetter components on what "MIGHT" be a $200 rod to make it a better rod.Fix it up like it should have been in the first place, and make a goodfishing rod out of it... JMHO Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Goodmann, Tom" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:57 PMSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone who enjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparable components of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, I wouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless it were itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to stray too far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Feb 15 08:06:30 2002 g1FE6T821315 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:06:30 - (63.71.237.156) Subject: to refinish Where would be a good place to start the search for a couple old Grangers, Heddon, or HI rods that could be refinished and fished.I'm not looking for any thing of collector's value just an old rod to take to the stream and fish with. TIABradhttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net from jojo@ipa.net Fri Feb 15 08:15:39 2002 g1FEFc821717 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:15:38 -0600 helo=default) id 16bj9D-0002EE-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:15:35 -0500 Subject: Re: to refinish Try flea markets, particularly the type where each vendor rents floor spaceinside a large building, and the shopkeeper manages them all. I've seenquite a few old rods in these places. Also, try eBay. There's lots of rodson there every day. M-D Where would be a good place to start the search for a couple oldGrangers, Heddon, or HI rods that could be refinished and fished.I'm not looking for any thing of collector's value just an old rod totake to the stream and fish with. TIABradhttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Fri Feb 15 08:25:40 2002 g1FEPd822293 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:25:39 -0600 Subject: Re: hollow rods Thanks all for the help. I have not spoken to John Long yet, but willgive it a shot. I know that he, Bill and some others had worked on ahollowing cutter. Mark BabiyGrade 7 Homeroom and 7/8 ScienceAlexander Muir Gladstone P.S. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 15 08:50:03 2002 g1FEo2823565 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:50:02 -0600 Subject: RE: hollow rods Mark:Here is an idea I came up with after talkinh to a few listmembers who use ahand held belt sander for doing hollowing and who use a belt sander for nodework (taking pith away and displacing nodes with a notched vise).Here is a small pic.http://www.downandacross.com/hollow.jpgI tape the strips together as if I was going to glue up, and I open themwith the scalpel I use.The trigger clamps hold the taped together strips parallel to each other.THe rubber feet of the clamp have a good grip and do not damage the apexlike metal hold downs would. You could easily mark the spline exactly whereyou want to hollow. If you use a carrier like cedar (I never have) you wouldknow exactly when to stop sanding because you would be almost through thecedar.It is not as good for glue up as fluting ala Winston, but it sure is an easyway to do a one off steelhead rod.Best regards, Bob ps., Good to see another 7th grade teacher on the list. The most convincingproof yet that some rodmakers are crazy! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: hollow rods Thanks all for the help. I have not spoken to John Long yet, but willgive it a shot. I know that he, Bill and some others had worked on ahollowing cutter. Mark BabiyGrade 7 Homeroom and 7/8 ScienceAlexander Muir Gladstone P.S. from tfbinn@mindspring.com Fri Feb 15 08:58:09 2002 g1FEw9824219 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:58:09 - id 16bjoJ-00040R-00; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:58:03 -0500 Subject: Re: to refinish lblove@omniglobal.net wrote: Where would be a good place to start the search for a couple old Grangers, Heddon, or HI rods that could be refinished and fished.I'm not looking for any thing of collector's value just an old rod to take to the stream and fish with. TIABradhttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.netBrad,Try E-Bay athttp://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/all/category11144/page3.html from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Fri Feb 15 08:59:36 2002 g1FExZ824379 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:59:35 -0600 Subject: RE: hollow rods Bob, I'm sure that there are more than just one or two of us on the list. Thanks for the idea and the link to the pic. I have used a similar setupin the past to sand the interior of the node in the past. Works great,but it sure is easy to get carried away. Mark Babiy from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 15 09:14:14 2002 g1FFED825529 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:14:13 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:15:25 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: hollow rods Bob, How in the heck do you control how much the best sander takes off, ormaintain any consistency from one hollowed section to the next? I've usedthebelt sander on the inner part of the nodes, but can see that operationgettingaway from me in a BIG hurry. Just curious,Harry Bob Maulucci wrote: Mark:Here is an idea I came up with after talkinh to a few listmembers who use ahand held belt sander for doing hollowing and who use a belt sander fornodework (taking pith away and displacing nodes with a notched vise).Here is a small pic.http://www.downandacross.com/hollow.jpgI tape the strips together as if I was going to glue up, and I open themwith the scalpel I use.The trigger clamps hold the taped together strips parallel to each other.THe rubber feet of the clamp have a good grip and do not damage the apexlike metal hold downs would. You could easily mark the spline exactly whereyou want to hollow. If you use a carrier like cedar (I never have) you wouldknow exactly when to stop sanding because you would be almost throughthecedar.It is not as good for glue up as fluting ala Winston, but it sure is an easyway to do a one off steelhead rod.Best regards, Bob ps., Good to see another 7th grade teacher on the list. The mostconvincingproof yet that some rodmakers are crazy! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:35 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: hollow rods Thanks all for the help. I have not spoken to John Long yet, but willgive it a shot. I know that he, Bill and some others had worked on ahollowing cutter. Mark BabiyGrade 7 Homeroom and 7/8 ScienceAlexander Muir Gladstone P.S. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 15 09:18:37 2002 g1FFIa825942 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:18:36 -0600 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:18:24 -0500 Subject: Student Rick DELETE IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED! http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2002/02/15/entertainment.20020215-sbt-M ARS-C1-Student_Rick_s_.sto Here is a nice story on the band for guys who have bought the CD and like the band on the list. Now some of you (1) have blasted me for putting stuff on here about the band so you know who you are so don't read this and don't email me back your crappy remarks.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2002/02/15/entertainment.20020215-sbt-MARS-C1-Student_Rick_s_.sto Here is a nice story on the band for guys who have bought the CD and like the stuff on here about the band so you know who you are so don't read this anddon't email me back your crappy remarks.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 15 09:24:40 2002 g1FFOd826569 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:24:39 -0600 Subject: RE: hollow rods Go really slow. Use your dial calipers. My mistake on the first few was tonot use something to stiffen the way the strips are held. Now I amexperimenting with some flat stock help in the clamps behind the enamel.Keeps the strips from twisting. No offense meant, but from what I haveheardabout the Powell process, it wasn't really all that accurate.Even if you just did this belt sander method by eyeballing the strips, itmay work just as well. I am not even sure that extreme accuracy wouldmatter. After all, is the glue being distributed evenly in the strips?This is obviously not as good as the Hand Mill fluting set up or someothers, but it sure works. I cannot find a spline that has a kick, or a realbig difference in dimemsions when glued up. -----Original Message----- How in the heck do you control how much the best sander takes off, ormaintain any consistency from one hollowed section to the next?I've used thebelt sander on the inner part of the nodes, but can see thatoperation gettingaway from me in a BIG hurry. Just curious,Harry from cw@vanion.com Fri Feb 15 09:56:16 2002 g1FFuG828655 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:56:16 -0600 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:01:06 -0700 Subject: hollowbuilt I've been playing with the same idea, just using my dado blade on my =table saw. Chad I've been playing with the same = my dado blade on my table saw. Chad from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Fri Feb 15 09:56:55 2002 g1FFus828794 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:56:54 -0600 g1FFusn18059 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:56:54 -0600 M2002021509565313760 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:56:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Poor Man's Grinder Angle grinder ($16 Chinese) attached to tool post of mini-lathe: 1. It works. I was able to rough in one butt plug from 3/4" NS bar in about 25 minutes including set ups. With traditional tools, the shaft was taking an hour to cut, and parting was being done with vise and hacksaw. 2. I WILL spend some more time to make a good holding bracket. The mounting screw holes (metric :^( ) help, but hose clamps and angle iron and JB Weld are essential. I did not weld the bracket directly to the grinder, but I'm considering it. I was careful and took my time making the cuts. 3. The grinder vibrates enough to move the adjustments on my carriage. Maybe I'm set for very light cuts, but everything needs to be locked down. 4. The edge of my cutting disk is rounded, and dressing it didn't entirely square it up. 5. The work piece gets hot. Don't ask how I learned that. 6. There is plenty of fine dust. I had my respirator on and shop vac going. My dust collector is on order; no more grinding until it arrives. 7. If the piece wobbles before cut off is complete, it will hit the edge of the wheel and require more finishing time than if you had bent it off. -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 10:01:20 2002 g1FG1J829403 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:01:19 -0600 15 Feb 2002 08:01:17 PST Subject: Re: hollow rods rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Just a thought, but a router jig might be an effectiveway to do this as well. Might be easier to get aconsistent depth. Bill W. --- Harry Boyd wrote: Bob, How in the heck do you control how much the bestsander takes off, ormaintain any consistency from one hollowed sectionto the next? I've used thebelt sander on the inner part of the nodes, but cansee that operation gettingaway from me in a BIG hurry. Just curious,Harry Bob Maulucci wrote: Mark:Here is an idea I came up with after talkinh to a few listmembers who use a hand held belt sander for doing hollowing and who use a belt sander for node work (taking pith away and displacing nodes with a notched vise). Here is a small pic.http://www.downandacross.com/hollow.jpgI tape the strips together as if I was going to glue up, and I open them with the scalpel I use.The trigger clamps hold the taped together strips parallel to each other. THe rubber feet of the clamp have a good grip and do not damage the apex like metal hold downs would. You could easily mark the spline exactly where you want to hollow. If you use a carrier like cedar (I never have) you would know exactly when to stop sanding because you would be almost through the cedar.It is not as good for glue up as fluting ala Winston, but it sure is an easy way to do a one off steelhead rod.Best regards, Bob ps., Good to see another 7th grade teacher on the list. The most convincing proof yet that some rodmakers are crazy! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of Mark Babiy Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:35 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: hollow rods Thanks all for the help. I have not spoken to John Long yet, but will give it a shot. I know that he, Bill and some others had worked on a hollowing cutter. Mark BabiyGrade 7 Homeroom and 7/8 ScienceAlexander Muir Gladstone P.S. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail http://mail.yahoo.com from dnorl@qwest.net Fri Feb 15 10:10:22 2002 g1FGAK800320 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:10:20 - (63.228.47.206) saweiss@flash.net, RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Don't sugar coat it Bill !give it to us straight.Dave -----Original Message----- ; saweiss@flash.net ;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Bob, I agree entirely. This mania for preserving the "collectors value" of anold Heddon, South Bend, Granger, Phillipson, H-I, etc. all seems prettygoofy to me. If a guy is interested in nothing but collecting and trading,then I suppose it's a different matter. But if you're interested infly-fishing, then why not turn these sow's ears into silk purses? The value of these production rods is never so great, anyhow, that one darenot change anything. On the contrary, most of those old rods looked prettyterrible right out of the box. Any one of us could build a better (andbetter-looking) rod without even half trying. So, what's the big deal? "Vanishing Scenes of Americana?" Gimme a break!Those old rods are a dime a dozen. Some were pretty good, but most weren't. The preservationist societies and museums have already saved about all ofthem that need to be saved, and the collectors only want to trade inuntouched, original junk. As for fishing, well, go ahead and dress one ofthe old rods up if you feel like it. Otherwise, go out to your shop,duplicate an old taper (if you're fond of one of them) and fish a rod that's both well made and good looking. Let the games begin... . Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:23 AMSubject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Tom,Just between you and I... if your gonna use it to fish, which is what it was originally intended for, then what difference does it make if you putbetter components on what "MIGHT" be a $200 rod to make it a betterrod.Fix it up like it should have been in the first place, and make a goodfishing rod out of it... JMHO Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Goodmann, Tom" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:57 PMSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone who enjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparable components of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, I wouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless it were itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to stray too far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from dryfly@erols.com Fri Feb 15 10:18:28 2002 g1FGIS801152 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:18:28 -0600 ([208.58.202.27] helo=erols.com) id 16bl47-00029S-00; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:18:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Poor Man's Grinder Is there a problem with the dust collectors sucking up nickel silverslivers and dust. I've been apprehensive to suck up anything other thancane slivers, shavings and dust in my dust collector. ThanksBob Grayson Davis wrote: Angle grinder ($16 Chinese) attached to tool post ofmini-lathe: 1. It works. I was able to rough in one butt plug from3/4" NS bar in about 25 minutes including set ups. Withtraditional tools, the shaft was taking an hour to cut, andparting was being done with vise and hacksaw. 2. I WILL spend some more time to make a good holdingbracket. The mounting screw holes (metric :^( ) help, buthose clamps and angle iron and JB Weld are essential. Idid not weld the bracket directly to the grinder, but I'mconsidering it. I was careful and took my time making thecuts. 3. The grinder vibrates enough to move the adjustments onmy carriage. Maybe I'm set for very light cuts, buteverything needs to be locked down. 4. The edge of my cutting disk is rounded, and dressing itdidn't entirely square it up. 5. The work piece gets hot. Don't ask how I learned that. 6. There is plenty of fine dust. I had my respiratoron and shop vac going. My dust collector is on order; nomore grinding until it arrives. 7. If the piece wobbles before cut off is complete, itwill hit the edge of the wheel and require more finishingtime than if you had bent it off. -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Fri Feb 15 10:43:18 2002 g1FGhE803464 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:43:15 -0600 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:44:22 - 0000 Subject: New Bamboo Fan Hi everyone, I'm a new member of the list. I've been a fly fisher for a number of yearsand always admired bamboo fly rood but have never been in a position to buyone(age, student, living in Australia) but now I am living in Ireland and am looking for a nice though not expensive rodI'm looking for a 3 or 4 weight about 8 ft or 8.5 ft I was wondering if anyone had any advise for me?I was thinking of buying a cheap 2nd hand rod (Ebay maybe) and paying tohave it refurnisheddoes anyone have any opinions on this?is it a good idea or bad?I don't really want to spend a lot on this rod as its my firstlater on I will spend more and buy newer rodsbut for the moment I just want to try some out. I notice Ebay seems to have a lot of South Bend rodsAre they any good? you can email me direct or via the list Regardsnick from James.Hatch@METROKC.GOV Fri Feb 15 11:23:16 2002 g1FHNG806509 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:23:16 -0600 id ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:23:14 -0800 Subject: Lathe question this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Hi -- Does anyone have any recommendations re: a general purposerod- building lathe set up? Do most of you turn your grips on a lathe? Ifso, how is the tailstock set-up? I'm new to the game, still getting mytools, etc., but I'm getting ready to split some bamboo this weekend.Thanks -----Original Message----- Subject: Block plane tuning sites Friends, Once again I ask your help. I'm looking for aweb article on fine tuning block planes so thatthey work best. The link from Rodmakers to FineWoodworking doesn't seem to come up with what I'mlooking for, but I remember that as a helpfularticle. I'd like to send this to a friend, so any helpyou can give will help more than me. Thanks,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- Lathe question Hi -- Does anyone have any recommendations re: a = I'm new to the game, still getting my tools, etc., but I'm getting = -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:24 AM Subject: Block plane tuning sites Friends, =I'm looking for aweb article on fine tuning block planes so =that FineWoodworking doesn't seem to come up with what =I'mlooking for, but I remember that as a helpfularticle. so any helpyou can give will help more than me. Thanks,Harry -- =-- -- from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Fri Feb 15 11:26:08 2002 g1FHQ6806834 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:26:07 -0600 g1FHQ6n01381 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:26:06 -0600 M2002021511260525931 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:26:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Poor Man's Grinder On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:06:44 -0800 Robert S Williams wrote: Is there a problem with the dust collectors sucking up nickel silverslivers and dust. I've been apprehensive to suck up anything other thancane slivers, shavings and dust in my dust collector. ThanksBob I don't know for certain. The OSHA web site might be helpful here. Most dust collector bags are rated (by their makers) at 30 to 50 microns. Some of the newer ones have 5 or even 1 micron ratings. I'm afraid that my shop vac is not stopping even the 50 micron particles. One good thing about metallic particles is that they are heavier than wood and will therefore be airborne for less time. I'm most apprehensive about filtering the stuff from the air with my lungs. -Grayson-----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Feb 15 11:31:46 2002 g1FHVj807507 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:31:45 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4185. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.738137 secs); 15 Feb 2002 17:31:39 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 ,RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? --------------060208070000050301080702 Any rod that has been restored/refinished must be viewed as not original. These rods may or may not have original parts (new tips, scarfed tips, new ferrules or all orig. parts) that is why the price for a restored/refinished rod is substantially cheaper than an orig. condition rod. Pretty much case closed. Marty swiftriverflyfishing wrote: This issue is being pushed a bit far. This is a South Bend. It is not a rodwith lots of value. It is not going to be the subject of bitter debate overits originality. There is no intent to deceive. On the other hand if youwant a reasonably close replacement Bailey Wood at Classic SportingEnterprises in Barton VT. can probably set you up. Rick T.---------- From: "Goodmann, Tom" RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore?Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2002, 10:57 PM This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone whoenjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparablecomponents of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, Iwouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless itwere itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to straytoo far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom --------------060208070000050301080702 Any rod that has been restored/refinished must be viewed as not original.These rods may or may not have original parts (new tips, scarfed tips, newferrules or all orig. parts) that is why the price for a restored/refinishedrod is substantially cheaper than an orig. condition rod. Pretty much case swiftriverflyfishing wrote: This issue is being pushed a bit far. This is a South Bend. It isnot a rodwith lots of value. It is not going to be the subject of bitterdebate overits originality. There is no intent to deceive. On the otherhand if youwant a reasonably close replacement Bailey Wood at ClassicSportingEnterprises in Barton VT. can probably set youup.Rick T.---------- Thu, Feb 14, 2002, 10:57 PM This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, atsomeearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw thedistinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but assomeone whoenjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing anysuch irreparablecomponents of questionable quality with better thanoriginal hardware.That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rodwith a split ferrule, Iwouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement forthe original, unless itwere itself of good quality. But maybe to say eventhis much is to straytoo far from rodmaking per se. What doothers think?Tom --------------060208070000050301080702-- from swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 14:09:24 2002 g1FK9N818367 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:09:23 - id 16boex-0007iv-00; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:08:44 -0800 Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? ,RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. So then the value of the South bend drops from $175 to $150, but now youcanactually fish it? If so would that not be considered a reasonable drop invalue for a rod that had no real collector's value to start with? If youwant to apply that standard to a Payne or a Gillum great, but why get yourshorts twisted over an SB or an HI. Common sense rather than strict rulesmake more sense. Rick T.---------- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Any rod that has been restored/refinished must be viewed as not original.These rods may or may not have original parts (new tips, scarfed tips, newferrules or all orig. parts) that is why the price for a restored/refinishedrod is substantially cheaper than an orig. condition rod. Pretty much caseclosed. Marty swiftriverflyfishing wrote:This issue is being pushed a bit far. This is a South Bend. It is not a rodwith lots of value. It is not going to be the subject of bitter debate overits originality. There is no intent to deceive. On the other hand if youwant a reasonably close replacement Bailey Wood at Classic SportingEnterprises in Barton VT. can probably set you up. Rick T.---------- , RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish orto restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone whoenjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparablecomponents of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, Iwouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless itwere itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to straytoo far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? So then the value of the South bend drops from $175 to $150, but now youca=n actually fish it? If so would that not be considered a reasonable drop in =value for a rod that had no real collector's value to start with? If you wan=t to apply that standard to a Payne or a Gillum great, but why get your shor=ts twisted over an SB or an HI. Common sense rather than strict rules makem=ore sense. Rick T.---------- <saweiss= Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Any rod that has been restored/refinished must be viewed asnot=original. These rods may or may not have original parts (new tips, scarfed =tips, new ferrules or all orig. parts) that is why the price for a restored/=refinished rod is substantially cheaper than an orig. condition rod. Pretty = swiftriverflyfishing wrote:This issue is being pushed a bit far. This is a South Bend. It =is not a rodwith lots of value. It is not going to be the subject of bitter debate over= its originality. There is no intent to deceive. On the other hand if you want a reasonably close replacement Bailey Wood at Classic Sporting Rick T.----------From: "Goodmann, Tom" <tg= Subject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet,=at some nbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone whoenjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparable= components of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, Iwouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless it= raytoo far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Fri Feb 15 17:02:24 2002 g1FN2O825129 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:02:24 - id ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:50:43 -0500 Subject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Well, it's a matter of "every man in his own humor," of course. There's ageneral correspondence in production rods, isn't there, between quality ofcane and quality of components (with exceptions), so while you might work toget the right thread for a Granger or Heddon, you won't trouble over puttinga better set of ferrules on a SB or an H-I. Sure, I'd go further to restorea Cross-era South Bend than the usual 359, but I agree with Rick T., BobNunley, and others in making an average or even low-quality production rodbetter than it was when you have the chance. I am working on a 7' 8" TonkaQueen right now, and as I intend it for fishin', there's no way I'm going tore-use the original ferrules (I'll save them, and they can pass with the rodif I pass it on sometime; pretty nice caster for what it is). And of courseI think things should only be represented as what they are: restoration,refinish, etc. The rods by the old master builders are their own story; I've neither castnor owned any of those, but the best modern rods I've ever cast -why-thatwas at Grayling. So, while we're kicking around matters of value andpatterns of preference, we could plumb the mystery of why folks will spendas much or more for a good production rod on ebay than for a brand newcustom rod made to higher standards: just different values, I guess. It's abig old world. Tom Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Well, it's a matter of "everyman in his own humor," of course.=A0There's a general correspondence in production rods, isn'tthere, between quality of cane and quality of components (with =exceptions), sowhile you might work to get the right thread for a Granger or Heddon, you won't trouble over putting a better =setof ferrules on a SB or an H-I.=A0 =Sure, I'dgo further to restore a Cross-era South Bend than the usual 359, but I =agreewith Rick T., Bob Nunley, and others in making an average or even =low- qualityproduction rod better than it was when you have the chance.=A0 I am working on a 7' 8" TonkaQueen right now, and as I intend it for fishin',there's no way I'm going to re-use the original ferrules (I'llsave them, and they can pass with the rod if I pass it on sometime; =pretty nicecaster for what it is). =A0And =of course Ithink things should only be represented as what they are: restoration, =refinish,etc.=A0 = The rods by the old master =builders aretheir own story; I've neither cast nor owned any of those, but the best =modernrods I've ever cast -why-that was at Grayling.=A0 So, while we're kicking around =mattersof value and patterns of preference, we could plumb the mystery of why =folkswill spend as much or more for a good production rod on ebaythan for a brand new custom rod made to higher standards: just =differentvalues, I guess.=A0 It's a big =oldworld. Tom from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 15 17:13:52 2002 g1FNDo825590 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:13:50 -0600 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:13:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Poor Man's Grinder Bob;Don't worry about it, a dust collector can handle anything it can suckup the pipe.john Robert S Williams wrote: Is there a problem with the dust collectors sucking up nickel silverslivers and dust. I've been apprehensive to suck up anything other thancane slivers, shavings and dust in my dust collector. ThanksBob Grayson Davis wrote: Angle grinder ($16 Chinese) attached to tool post ofmini-lathe: 1. It works. I was able to rough in one butt plug from3/4" NS bar in about 25 minutes including set ups. Withtraditional tools, the shaft was taking an hour to cut, andparting was being done with vise and hacksaw. 2. I WILL spend some more time to make a good holdingbracket. The mounting screw holes (metric :^( ) help, buthose clamps and angle iron and JB Weld are essential. Idid not weld the bracket directly to the grinder, but I'mconsidering it. I was careful and took my time making thecuts. 3. The grinder vibrates enough to move the adjustments onmy carriage. Maybe I'm set for very light cuts, buteverything needs to be locked down. 4. The edge of my cutting disk is rounded, and dressing itdidn't entirely square it up. 5. The work piece gets hot. Don't ask how I learned that. 6. There is plenty of fine dust. I had my respiratoron and shop vac going. My dust collector is on order; nomore grinding until it arrives. 7. If the piece wobbles before cut off is complete, itwill hit the edge of the wheel and require more finishingtime than if you had bent it off. -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri Feb 15 17:44:21 2002 g1FNiK826501 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:44:20 -0600 15 Feb 2002 15:44:19 PST Subject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Tom, one of my projects is also redoing a Tonka Queen.I've always seen this rod listed as a 7'9" but when Imeasured mine it came out 7'8" as well. Wonder if theyshould be listed as 7'8" when they come up in alisting instead of the 7'9" I've always seen. I too amreplacing the ferrules. I'm also building a new set oftips since the only tip I have is slightly twisted andI don't want to spend the time untwisting it just haveit go back that way. My main reason for fooling aroundwith it is to get a beater/loaner rod and to mic thetaper to add to the list. I think anyone that takesinordinate pains to preserve the authenticity of a SBor H-I is even more obsessive than we (rodmakers) are. --- "Goodmann, Tom" wrote: Well, it's a matter of "every man in his own humor,"of course. There's ageneral correspondence in production rods, isn'tthere, between quality ofcane and quality of components (with exceptions), sowhile you might work toget the right thread for a Granger or Heddon, youwon't trouble over puttinga better set of ferrules on a SB or an H-I. Sure,I'd go further to restorea Cross-era South Bend than the usual 359, but Iagree with Rick T., BobNunley, and others in making an average or evenlow-quality production rodbetter than it was when you have the chance. I amworking on a 7' 8" TonkaQueen right now, and as I intend it for fishin',there's no way I'm going tore-use the original ferrules (I'll save them, andthey can pass with the rodif I pass it on sometime; pretty nice caster forwhat it is). And of courseI think things should only be represented as whatthey are: restoration,refinish, etc. The rods by the old master builders are their ownstory; I've neither castnor owned any of those, but the best modern rodsI've ever cast -why-thatwas at Grayling. So, while we're kicking aroundmatters of value andpatterns of preference, we could plumb the mysteryof why folks will spendas much or more for a good production rod on ebaythan for a brand newcustom rod made to higher standards: just differentvalues, I guess. It's abig old world.Tom __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from Lazybee45@aol.com Fri Feb 15 19:32:54 2002 g1G1Wr801041 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:32:54 -0600 Subject: Re: hollowbuilt In a message dated 2/15/02 9:56:59 AM Central Standard Time,cw@vanion.com writes: Heee! my buddy Bob says that there is a nickname for people who have Dado blades! LEFTY! Hah! Ijust aquired a table saw and am very leery of it! mark visit Marks Magic Workshop http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 15 20:13:33 2002 g1G2DW802469 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:13:32 -0600 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:13:41 -0700 Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Mark;I'm a carpenter and use the full array of power tools most every day,including all the air tools, and I got to tell ya, my hammer is the mostdangerous tool I own, if judged solely on how much damage to myself I'vedone with it. Sure, you can seriously maim or even kill yourself with alot of the tools available, but the good old hammer will keep you out ofstock on bandaids more than anything else. Just pay attention to whatyou're doing and don't allow anything to take your eyes off your work,lock the door if neccesary.john Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/15/02 9:56:59 AM Central Standard Time,cw@vanion.comwrites: saw. Chad >> Heee! my buddy Bob says that there is a nickname for people who haveDadoblades! LEFTY! Hah! Ijust aquired a table saw and am very leery of it! mark visit Marks Magic Workshophttp://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Feb 15 20:44:22 2002 g1G2iL803129 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:44:22 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16bupn-000521-00; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:44:20 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? I've seen a '40 Ford restored to original that I'd love to own (wouldn'tdrive it very much) and I've seen a '40 Ford with a chromed OHV V8 289 w/3twos, chopped, channeled and wide slicks that I like too (still wouldn'ttake off cross country in it, but it'd probably make it if I did). And thenoccasionally I see one rusting in a junk yard that'll cause a groan. Theywere a cheap production item...no threat to win this year's Dayona 500. Thebest cars ever made are being made today.My $.02.Ed I think anyone that takesinordinate pains to preserve the authenticity of a SBor H-I is even more obsessive than we (rodmakers) are. --- "Goodmann, Tom" wrote: Well, it's a matter of "every man in his own humor,"of course. There's ageneral correspondence in production rods, isn'tthere, between quality ofcane and quality of components (with exceptions), sowhile you might work toget the right thread for a Granger or Heddon, youwon't trouble over puttinga better set of ferrules on a SB or an H-I. Sure,I'd go further to restorea Cross-era South Bend than the usual 359, but Iagree with Rick T., BobNunley, and others in making an average or evenlow-quality production rodbetter than it was when you have the chance. I amworking on a 7' 8" TonkaQueen right now, and as I intend it for fishin',there's no way I'm going tore-use the original ferrules (I'll save them, andthey can pass with the rodif I pass it on sometime; pretty nice caster forwhat it is). And of courseI think things should only be represented as whatthey are: restoration,refinish, etc. The rods by the old master builders are their ownstory; I've neither castnor owned any of those, but the best modern rodsI've ever cast -why-thatwas at Grayling. So, while we're kicking aroundmatters of value andpatterns of preference, we could plumb the mysteryof why folks will spendas much or more for a good production rod on ebaythan for a brand newcustom rod made to higher standards: just differentvalues, I guess. It's abig old world. Tom __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 15 21:20:47 2002 g1G3Kk804534 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:20:46 -0600 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:20:54 -0700 Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Maybe the best cars are being made today, but they are sooooooooooougly! Name one that can compete in the looks department with a 68 GTO ora 59 Caddy convertible! Or even that original 40 Ford.john Ed Riddle wrote: I've seen a '40 Ford restored to original that I'd love to own (wouldn'tdrive it very much) and I've seen a '40 Ford with a chromed OHV V8 289w/ 3twos, chopped, channeled and wide slicks that I like too (still wouldn'ttake off cross country in it, but it'd probably make it if I did). And thenoccasionally I see one rusting in a junk yard that'll cause a groan. Theywere a cheap production item...no threat to win this year's Dayona 500. Thebest cars ever made are being made today.My $.02.Ed I think anyone that takesinordinate pains to preserve the authenticity of a SBor H-I is even more obsessive than we (rodmakers) are. --- "Goodmann, Tom" wrote: Well, it's a matter of "every man in his own humor,"of course. There's ageneral correspondence in production rods, isn'tthere, between quality ofcane and quality of components (with exceptions), sowhile you might work toget the right thread for a Granger or Heddon, youwon't trouble over puttinga better set of ferrules on a SB or an H-I. Sure,I'd go further to restorea Cross-era South Bend than the usual 359, but Iagree with Rick T., BobNunley, and others in making an average or evenlow-quality production rodbetter than it was when you have the chance. I amworking on a 7' 8" TonkaQueen right now, and as I intend it for fishin',there's no way I'm going tore-use the original ferrules (I'll save them, andthey can pass with the rodif I pass it on sometime; pretty nice caster forwhat it is). And of courseI think things should only be represented as whatthey are: restoration,refinish, etc. The rods by the old master builders are their ownstory; I've neither castnor owned any of those, but the best modern rodsI've ever cast -why-thatwas at Grayling. So, while we're kicking aroundmatters of value andpatterns of preference, we could plumb the mysteryof why folks will spendas much or more for a good production rod on ebaythan for a brand newcustom rod made to higher standards: just differentvalues, I guess. It's abig old world. Tom __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Fri Feb 15 21:58:45 2002 g1G3wj806054 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:58:45 -0600 g1G3wZT09496; Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Since my kids were little, we've had the rule that before you can come outinto the shop you have to flick the light switch to a little over-head bulbto warn anyone running machinery, (or pickin' yer nose, hiding the goodscotch,etc.) It still works well today at preventing suprises and taking myconcentration off what I'm doing at the wrong minute. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Mark;I'm a carpenter and use the full array of power tools most every day,including all the air tools, and I got to tell ya, my hammer is the mostdangerous tool I own, if judged solely on how much damage to myself I'vedone with it. Sure, you can seriously maim or even kill yourself with alot of the tools available, but the good old hammer will keep you out ofstock on bandaids more than anything else. Just pay attention to whatyou're doing and don't allow anything to take your eyes off your work,lock the door if neccesary.john Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/15/02 9:56:59 AM Central Standard Time, cw@vanion.com writes: saw. Chad >> Heee! my buddy Bob says that there is a nickname for people who have Dado blades! LEFTY! Hah! Ijust aquired a table saw and am very leery of it! mark visit Marks Magic Workshophttp://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Feb 15 22:01:19 2002 g1G41I806621 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:01:18 -0600 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:01:09 -0500 Subject: DL Reel Seat List, I need a "trick" to help keep the lock nut from coming loose on a down locking reel seat. I tighten it up to lock in the reel, and after about 10' minutes or so of lawn casting it works itself loose. Any ideas? TIA, Kyle from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 15 22:28:30 2002 g1G4ST808138 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:28:29 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:29:59 -0800 Subject: Re: DL Reel Seat Kyle, Try Super Glue. ;-()Harry PS -- Just kidding. I'd probably suggest buying a different brand of reel seat. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: List, I need a "trick" to help keep the lock nut from coming loose on a downlocking reel seat. I tighten it up to lock in the reel, and after about 10'minutes or so of lawn casting it works itself loose. Any ideas? TIA, Kyle -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Fri Feb 15 22:29:52 2002 g1G4Tp808314 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:29:51 -0600 Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:29:37 -0800 Subject: Re: loose DL Reel Seat FILETIME=[8B2FB000:01C1B6A2] I will take a stab at this one. If it is an older rod, check that there are no cracks in the ring, seat, orfiller. Saw that once. It would not stay tight, and the crack was notvisible when everything was in place. It opened up only when the ring wastightened. Is the Ring or thread worn? You may need to replace it. Would not try thisapproach with a Garrison. A small drop of Elmers glue will hold it in place. Loctite makes a productthat works very well, but be careful. There are different formulas- one is remain in place forever. Problem here is that it is one more thing to dragalong on fishing trips. Are you using a reel with a foot that may be too big for the seat? Someolder reel seats just are not strong enough to maintain pressure on a bigreel foot. Try a different reel. Low probability of success with this one,but worth a try. It might help to know what kind of rod it is, and the make of the reel seat.I am always looking for things to avoid. Jeff Schaeffer from cw@vanion.com Fri Feb 15 22:43:06 2002 g1G4h5808753 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:43:05 -0600 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 21:47:55 -0700 Subject: LOOSE REELSEAT Don't know that it'd work in this case, but I had a ferrule on a rod =that was snug, but would turn with use. Put beeswax on it to hold it in =position. Worth a try.. Don't know that it'd work in this case, but I had a = a rod that was snug, but would turn with use. Put beeswax on it to hold = position. Worth a try.. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Feb 15 22:47:25 2002 g1G4lO808977 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:47:24 -0600 ([209.178.128.178] helo=computer) id 16bwks-0005gV-00; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:47:23 -0800 Subject: Re: DL Reel Seat Kyle, Two things, get a small rubber band. The black kind girls use in their hair.Put this on the reelseat so the ring can not unscrew. Also build up a layerof masking tape on the reel foot where it contacts the reelseat. Razor bladeit so it does not show and then put screw the reel seat ring onto it. Thiswill give it enough of the reelseat to grab. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: DL Reel Seat List, I need a "trick" to help keep the lock nut from coming loose on a down locking reel seat. I tighten it up to lock in the reel, and after about 10' minutes or so of lawn casting it works itself loose. Any ideas? TIA, Kyle from Jkvseafood@aol.com Fri Feb 15 22:58:06 2002 g1G4w6809343 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:58:06 -0600 Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Agreed, pay attention to what you are doing. Maiming myself with a powertool is not something I'd joke about. from saweiss@flash.net Sat Feb 16 00:01:11 2002 g1G61A810408 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:01:10 - g1G6191149912 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:01:09 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Organization: Prodigy Internet I agree with Bob, I just don't like to be too casual about calling a rodrestored when it is actually refinished or repaired. A person can do what hewants with any rod he owns, but to me, using the word "restoration" carriessome specific requirements. I have been accused of being somewhat anal attimes.Steve Tom,Just between you and I... if your gonna use it to fish, which is what it was originally intended for, then what difference does it make if you putbetter components on what "MIGHT" be a $200 rod to make it a better rod.Fix it up like it should have been in the first place, and make a goodfishing rod out of it... JMHO Later,Bob from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Feb 16 04:21:34 2002 g1GALW814604 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 04:21:33 - g1GAJwi13735; g1GBDR816480 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 05:13:27 - Subject: Re: shop safety, was hollowbuilt In a message dated 2/15/02 9:59:01 PM Central Standard Time, bdcbfr@chartermi.net writes: Great idea! I put in some time in EMT training and during the clinicals (working in the trauma centers in town) I observed, among other things that most of you don't want to know about,including a murder by steak knife, (yeeech!) A friend brought her husband in for "standing too close to his table saw". In his case, he was quite fortunate. He simply cut a groove on the ball of one finger that was about a quarter inch deep and about 3/32 wide. about an inch long. Messy, painful too, but not a bad one. Power tools are something that I try to treat with the deepest respect. but any TOOL no matter how simple or complex, from a basic pry bar to the most powerful neuculear reactor, can cause damage and injury, including fatal injury. (witness the previously mentioned steak knife, a harmless enough tool normally wouldn't you say!)I have discovered another basic truth. If you puncture your skin, you leak. Puncturing your skin is not all that difficult. So my "treat tools with care and respect came early, along with other necessary truth, such as "always keep beer in a cool dark place" "Mind your parents" "Thou shall not catch TOO damn many fish while the warden is watching" and others, have earned a place in my heart! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Feb 16 05:21:24 2002 g1GBLN816822 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 05:21:23 - Subject: Re: hollowbuilt In a message dated 2/15/02 10:59:49 PM Central Standard Time, Jkvseafood@aol.com writes: Hmmm. Having worked in a trauma center and in a major metropolitanhospital, (well, MINOR metropolitan hospital at least) While I don't find maiming yourself via power tool actually "FUNNY" I have worked with enought doctors and Paramedics to know that JOKING about it is the only way to survive! The time to start worrying is when they STOP joking! I worked with some really fine and extraordinarily competent people over the years. The really great ones laugh, joke and make dark DARK humor! the of a sense of humor. two such very nearly killed my wife, and had I not been actually working at the hospital and it would have jepordised my job, I would have thrashed the morons It took a HUGE effort of will not to pound either one into a mass of jelly-like goo!So to me at least, joking about stuff like that is a sign that your perspective is firmly in place. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Feb 16 06:56:06 2002 g1GCu5817812 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 06:56:05 - Subject: Re: DL Reel Seat Either use lock tite or change to an UL reel seat [:-)] Tony At 11:01 PM 2/15/02 -0500, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: List, I need a "trick" to help keep the lock nut from coming loose on a downlocking reel seat. I tighten it up to lock in the reel, and after about 10'minutes or so of lawn casting it works itself loose. Any ideas? TIA, Kyle /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Feb 16 07:16:10 2002 g1GDG8818134 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 07:16:08 - channer@frontier.net Subject: Re: hollowbuilt You want dark humor try this. I used to work with a mining company and in the course of 3 years only slept under a roof for about 5 weeks in total the rest was in the field and the "field" as it is referred to here in Australia is quite large and isolated otherwise either the gold we were prospecting for was found or buildings were already on top of it all.One of the first field assistants I was given to work with had a very white complexion for Summer and very short hair for his age at the time which between that and his sort of unusual behavior sort of put me off but I took him with me to a place called Iron Range North of Cairns.I found that it only took about 1-2 days and the newbies opened up and basically wanted to tell you their whole life story even if you didn't want to hear it as was the case with me most times but this guy was worth listening to.He had just been released from 4 years prison about 1 week before BHP gave him the job as field assistant with me.It seems he was put away for what was originally attempted murder of a cop. It was reduced to aggravated assault then he was let out early because his mouth piece argued his was a miss trial.This guy was telling me this without any emotion at all which I took as a stoic way of dealing with a stitch up by the cops. After the story was told he told me you can never pay too much for a good barrister because he did try to kill the cop and would again given half the chance only this time the cop'd have more than just a few weeks in hospital. He was mad, no doubt about it.I slept with my sleeping bag unzipped and the axe with me for the 7 days it took to get back to town and ditch the guy. Did I get much sleep, NO. Tony At 06:21 AM 2/16/02 -0500, Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/15/02 10:59:49 PM Central Standard Time,Jkvseafood@aol.com writes: toolis not something I'd joke about. >> Hmmm. Having worked in a trauma center and in a major metropolitanhospital,(well, MINOR metropolitan hospital at least) While I don't find maimingyourself via power tool actually "FUNNY" I have worked with enoughtdoctorsand Paramedics to know that JOKING about it is the only way to survive! Thetime to start worrying is when they STOP joking!I worked with some really fine and extraordinarily competent people overthe years. The really great ones laugh, joke and make dark DARK humor! the of a sense of humor. two such very nearly killed my wife, and had I notbeenactually working at the hospital and it would have jepordised my job, I wouldhave thrashed the morons It took a HUGE effort of will not to pound eitherone into a mass of jelly-like goo!So to me at least, joking about stuff like that is a sign that yourperspective is firmly in place. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Feb 16 08:28:04 2002 g1GES4819757 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:28:04 - Subject: RE: Peter:Right on. My best friend always said "You can't polish a turd."Some of those production rods are worth some time, the SB 290s and HITonkaQueens cast great. But, they are not it if you are paying big bucks tosomeone to do the work.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- If you buy a shit rod and pay a small (?) fortune to have it lacquered, youwill have a shiny shit rod, and you will never experience what there isto be experienced in the world of bamboo rods. from jojo@ipa.net Sat Feb 16 08:32:52 2002 g1GEWp820088 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:32:51 -0600 helo=default) id 16c5tS-0000IF-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:32:51 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? You and about 98% of this list. Add OCD and we've all been described. M-D SNIP . . . I have been accused of being somewhat anal attimes.Steve from swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Sat Feb 16 08:45:25 2002 g1GEjO820438 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:45:24 - id 16c658-0005fp-00; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 06:44:55 -0800 Subject: Re: nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Actually cow turds, flat and well dried, predated frisbies by many thousandsof years. Rick T.---------- From: "Bob Maulucci" Cc: "rodmakers" Subject: RE: Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2002, 9:27 AM Peter:Right on. My best friend always said "You can't polish a turd."Some of those production rods are worth some time, the SB 290s and HITonkaQueens cast great. But, they are not it if you are paying big bucks tosomeone to do the work.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu If you buy a shit rod and pay a small (?) fortune to have it lacquered, youwill have a shiny shit rod, and you will never experience what there isto be experienced in the world of bamboo rods. from KyleDruey@aol.com Sat Feb 16 09:16:18 2002 g1GFGH820954 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:16:18 - for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:16:11 - Subject: Flaming List, How can I get a rod to look almost black? I think Nunley has a picture of a rod on his website that looks charred (the one with the green wraps). Funny, but I like the way it looks. How does one get that dark, charred looking effect without damaging the integrity of the power fibers? Thanks, Kyle from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Feb 16 09:36:32 2002 g1GFaV821462 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:36:31 - g1GFaUE7000773 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:36:31 - Subject: Re: g1GFaW821463 Ahh, Peter, You have such a lovely way with the Queen's English..... ;^? Mark At 09:18 PM 2/16/02 +1100, you wrote: Nick I am also living in Australia, age group "geezer". Ireland, I'm afraid, isout for me; a rare genetic condition resulting in an intolerance forcombinations of beer, potatoes, and plastique explosives. I bought a bamboo rod in Albury about 40 years ago, when they were stillconsidered to be the benchmark; it was a moderately good rod, made inMelbourne by J M Gillies. I couldn't afford it, but bought it anyway; andI'm still fishing it, though not as often as I used to. The rods I make are better; but the old Gillies is still a delight to use. I don't believe there are any "bargains" in rods to refinish unless you areable to refinish them yourself; buy a goodish bamboo rod that you can'tquite afford and take care of it. My experience with local refinishershas been disastrous. There are no doubt plenty of people around who canmake any rod better, but you will be paying them about the same hourlyratethat you would pay a rod builder, who would almost certainly make you abetter rod from scratch. If you buy a shit rod and pay a small (?) fortune to have it lacquered, youwill have a shiny shit rod, and you will never experience what there isto be experienced in the world of bamboo rods. Stay happy Peter from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Feb 16 09:41:50 2002 g1GFfn821759 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:41:49 - g1GFfmE7000825 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:41:49 - Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Mark, I can agree completely with you about the dark humor part. I used to fly fighter jets with Uncle Sam' Great Fraternal Flying Club, the USAF. You want to talk about dark, gallows humor, sit around in the flight ready room after the squadron has learned about another aircrew losing the contest with the ground (Terra Firma ain't lost yet, but the contest continues...) The only thing that keeps you on the horse in cases like this is to compartmentalize the horror using humor, even if the humor is ghastly. Mark At 06:21 AM 2/16/02 -0500, you wrote: Hmmm. Having worked in a trauma center and in a major metropolitanhospital,(well, MINOR metropolitan hospital at least) While I don't find maimingyourself via power tool actually "FUNNY" I have worked with enoughtdoctorsand Paramedics to know that JOKING about it is the only way to survive! Thetime to start worrying is when they STOP joking!I worked with some really fine and extraordinarily competent people overthe years. The really great ones laugh, joke and make dark DARK humor! the of a sense of humor. two such very nearly killed my wife, and had I notbeenactually working at the hospital and it would have jepordised my job, I wouldhave thrashed the morons It took a HUGE effort of will not to pound eitherone into a mass of jelly-like goo!So to me at least, joking about stuff like that is a sign that yourperspective is firmly in place. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Feb 16 10:20:40 2002 g1GGKc822486 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:20:39 - Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Is it still always human error? Tony Mark, I can agree completely with you about the dark humor part. I used to fly fighter jets with Uncle Sam' Great Fraternal Flying Club, the USAF. You want to talk about dark, gallows humor, sit around in the flight ready room after the squadron has learned about another aircrew losing the contest with the ground (Terra Firma ain't lost yet, but the contest continues...) The only thing that keeps you on the horse in cases like this is to compartmentalize the horror using humor, even if the humor is ghastly. Mark /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Feb 16 10:42:05 2002 g1GGg4822939 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:42:04 - g1GGg2E7001272 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:42:02 - Subject: Was: hollowbuilt, Now: Dark Humor Tony, I'd say in 99.99% of the cases, you'd be correct. Every once in a while a mechanical or electrical malfunction can be traced to the cause, but more often than not, the aircrew didn't use all means available to ensure safety of flight. I remember an old saying about flight: "Flight is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, completely unforgiving of careless mistakes." Mark At 12:26 AM 2/17/02 +0800, you wrote: Is it still always human error? Tony Mark, I can agree completely with you about the dark humor part. I used to fly fighter jets with Uncle Sam' Great Fraternal Flying Club, the USAF. You want to talk about dark, gallows humor, sit around in the flight ready room after the squadron has learned about another aircrew losing the contest with the ground (Terra Firma ain't lost yet, but the contest continues...) The only thing that keeps you on the horse in cases like this is to compartmentalize the horror using humor, even if the humor is ghastly. Mark /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 16 10:46:45 2002 g1GGki823239 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:46:45 - helo=excalibur.ix.netcom.com) id 16c7z1-0005lO-00; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:46:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Flaming --=======67D762DC======= ascii; format=flowed I use a really hot flame. Harbor Freight has a torch that runs off a gas barbecue tank. I think it's a 20 lb tank. The torch sells for $19 something regularly but is on sale regularly for around $15. Just crank it up and you can char the enamel without overheating the inside. The quicker you char the enamel, the lower the inside of the bamboo will get. Slow flaming heats the inside hotter. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:16 AM 2/16/02 -0500, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: List, How can I get a rod to look almost black? I think Nunley has a picture of arod on his website that looks charred (the one with the green wraps). Funny,but I like the way it looks. How does one get that dark, charred lookingeffect without damaging the integrity of the power fibers? Thanks, Kyle ---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.324 / Virus Database: 181 - Release Date: 2/14/02 --=======67D762DC======= ok-6CDE46A2 ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.324 / Virus Database: 181 - Release Date: 2/14/02 --=======67D762DC=======-- from Jkvseafood@aol.com Sat Feb 16 10:46:54 2002 g1GGks823244 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:46:54 - for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:46:43 - Subject: fishing so. florida- not bamboo related great magazine to get if your coming to florida any time soon. go to www.floridasportsman.com and get a copy of the 2001/2002 annual redfishand trout guide. great articles on fishing state wide, both conventional and fly. great resource to own these tips will not go out of date, good stuff. john from KyleDruey@aol.com Sat Feb 16 10:59:14 2002 g1GGxD823818 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:59:13 - for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:59:04 - Subject: DL Reel Seat Thanks, List, for some great suggestions. The solution to my problem wasto gently strike the lock nut with a brass hammer until it was slightly out of round. A little crude but it worked. The reel seat was a Pac Bay that I had bought for the rod that I had just built. I think I learned that there are some things you can't economize on when making a rod. List, I need a "trick" to help keep the lock nut from coming loose on a down locking >reel seat. I tighten it up to lock in the reel, and after about 10' minutes or so of >lawn casting it works itself loose. Any ideas? TIA, Kyle from Jkvseafood@aol.com Sat Feb 16 11:06:23 2002 g1GH6N824194 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:06:23 - Subject: Re: hollowbuilt mark,i'm a paramedic and have been for 8 years, . i worked in the trauma centerat jackson memorial (definitely a major metropolitan hosp.)( you may haveheard if it?) in miami in the er and have worked in a critical care unit for 2 years, i was a premed student, until i could no longer handle the stresses. so cutting off a couple fingers is not maiming yourself? i've seen enough boneheaded people hurt themselves with power tools to be concerned enoughto say something. not that i'm calling anyone on this list boneheaded i'm not. just over cautious. i think a necktie and a metal lathe could do some damage, you think?john from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Feb 16 11:19:06 2002 g1GHJ5824647 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:19:05 - Subject: Re: Link for the Planing Form Tom, I'm working on it. Goodmann, Tom wrote: from the rodmakers site:http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/pagegifs/planingf.gif Maybe we have to convince Ron Barch to use email & such- Tom --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Rodmaking Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Rodmaking Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page: Under Construction from RONGEY@aol.com Sat Feb 16 11:30:12 2002 g1GHUC825008 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:30:12 -0600 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:29:58 -0500 Subject: Books I visited a local fly shop this morning and found two books that might interest a listmember. "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod" by Stuart Kirkfield...first edition...$150. Garrison/Carmichael "A Masters Guide to Building a Bamboo FlyRod"...Meadow Run first edition...$125. Please contact me off list and I'll put you in contact with the owner of the shop. Ken Rongey rongey@aol.com from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 16 11:40:44 2002 g1GHei825420 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:40:44 - Subject: Maimed channer@frontier.net I remember back when I was in grade school in the sixties a kid in my shop class got his long hair caught in the woodlathe while spinning a bowl and he got his scalp pulled off, yep guys right of like an Indian had scalped him. Then another guy got his sweater caught in a metal lathe and pulled him into the lathe knocking out his front teeth. Never have any loose long clothing on when you are working with power tools of any sort. I also remember whenI was an EMT on a fire department some of the trauma injuries I had to take care of and the times I worked ER the things I saw come in there. Guys with fingers cut off from chain saws and other power saws, but the worst one I ever saw was the guy who cut his tongue off with power shears, needless to say we ended up putting this guy in the Psych ward because he had done this himself, oh yeh I forgot about the mentally unstable guy who cut his own penis off. I can concur when you start to not be able to laugh at some of the stuff, not from callousness, but for your sanity it is time to get out. I was getting to that point with it and when I ended up falling through a floor of a fully involved house fire into the basement that was the end of my firefighting days. You guys have no idea how that can scare the living s--t out of you and make you rethink your life and what you want to do with it.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I remember back when Iwas in grade school in the sixties a kid in my shop class got his long haircaught in the woodlathe while spinning a bowl and he got his scalp pulled off, his sweater caught in a metal lathe and pulled him into the lathe knocking out EMT on a fire department some of the trauma injuries I had to take care of fingers cut off from chain saws and other power saws, but the worst one Iever saw was the guy who cut his tongue off with power shears, needless tosay we ended up putting this guy in the Psych ward because he had done thishimself, oh yeh I forgot about the mentally unstable guy who cut his ownpenis off. !; I can concur when you start to not be able to laugh at some of the stuff, getting to that point with it and when I ended up falling through a floor of afully involved house fire into the basement that was the end of my s--t out of you and make you rethink your life and what you want to do withit.Bret http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from cw@vanion.com Sat Feb 16 12:05:06 2002 g1GI55825980 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:05:05 - for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:09:59 - Subject: For those interested in a lathe Micro-Mark has their Micro-Lux 7x12" lathe on sale. no $ interest here... Micro-Mark has their Micro-Lux = on sale.http://www= no $ interest =here... from jojo@ipa.net Sat Feb 16 15:01:48 2002 g1GL1l828875 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:01:48 -0600 helo=default) id 16cBxo-0006zC-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:01:46 -0500 Subject: Re: For those interested in a lathe Ooops! Wrong one, Chad. That's the link for the milling machine. Here's =the one for the lathe: M-D Micro-Mark has their Micro-Lux 7x12" lathe on sale. no $ interest here... Ooops! Wrong one,Chad. = lathe:http://www= M-D chadwigham = Micro-Mark has their Micro-Lux = sale.http://www= here... from Jkvseafood@aol.com Sat Feb 16 15:28:29 2002 g1GLSS829592 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:28:28 - 0216162817; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:28:17 -0500 Subject: Re: For those interested in a lathe chad, this is the same lathe that homier is selling at homier.com for $300,same as the grizzly mini lathe also. i just received my homier. they call it thespeedway and its a different color, but i am possitive this is the same lathe.order the attachments at the same time and save on shipping. the companythat makes these lathes makes it for several distributers.don't get burned.john from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sat Feb 16 16:02:10 2002 g1GM29800350 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:02:09 - g1GM2815013132 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:02:09 -0600 Subject: RE: For those interested in a lathe Here is a good link that compares/talks about different makes ofmini-lathes. Enjoy the reading. Darrin CurtisSan Antonio -----Original Message----- Jkvseafood@aol.com Subject: Re: For those interested in a lathe chad, this is the same lathe that homier is selling at homier.com for $300,same as the grizzly mini lathe also. i just received my homier. they call itthe speedway and its a different color, but i am possitive this is the samelathe. order the attachments at the same time and save on shipping. thecompany that makes these lathes makes it for several distributers.don't getburned.john from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sat Feb 16 16:18:27 2002 g1GMIQ800938 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:18:26 - g1GMJNhw003587; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:19:23 -0600 Subject: RE: For those interested in a lathe http://www.mini-lathe.com/Versions.htm I guess it would help to include the link. Darrin from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Feb 16 19:31:04 2002 g1H1V3805817 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 19:31:03 -0600 Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:31:02 PST ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from caneman@clnk.com Sat Feb 16 20:09:05 2002 g1H295806470 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:09:05 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Wouldn't joke about it???? Hell, I'm writing a book that is mostly tales ofthe many times I HAVE maimed myself with a power tool... anyone rememberthe"S" shaped cut on my jaw at SRG2000? *S* Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: hollowbuilt Agreed, pay attention to what you are doing. Maiming myself with a power tool is not something I'd joke about. from Notsooyoun@aol.com Sat Feb 16 21:21:00 2002 g1H3Kx807580 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:20:59 - for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:20:46 - Subject: 3 Piece Rod I have two questions I would like to put to the list.First I built my second rod and there are bubbles in the spar urethane. What is the best method to remove the bubbles or imperfection?Second I'm looking for a good taper for a three piece rod, 7'6" for 5 weight line. Which is the best place to take the mid section from? The bottom of the culm where the butt is split, or the top where the tip is split? Sorry, I guess that's three questions. Thanks in advance for any helpNotso from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Feb 16 21:47:32 2002 g1H3lV808083 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:47:31 - Sat, 16 Feb 2002 19:47:27 PST Subject: Re: 3 Piece Rod as far as the bubbles...you cand sand them out of thefinish and then polish the rod. you can touch them tothe flame of an alcohol lamp but will still have tosand or polish. how did you varnish the rod? timothy --- Notsooyoun@aol.com wrote: I have two questions I would like to put to thelist.First I built my second rod and there are bubbles inthe spar urethane. What is the best method to remove the bubbles orimperfection?Second I'm looking for a good taper for a threepiece rod, 7'6" for 5 weight line. Which is the best place to take the midsection from? The bottom of the culm where the butt is split, or the top where thetip is split? Sorry, I guess that's three questions. Thanks in advance forany helpNotso ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Feb 16 22:39:27 2002 g1H4dQ808908 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:39:26 - Subject: Re: nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie In a message dated 2/16/02 8:29:35 AM Central Standard Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: ACtually, a friend who is into cutting and polishing stone, says that petrified Dinosaur Turds polish up real nice! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Feb 16 22:52:15 2002 g1H4qE809276 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:52:14 - Subject: Re: Was: hollowbuilt, Now: Dark Humor In a message dated 2/16/02 10:42:50 AM Central Standard Time, wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: There is also the other general rule of aviation, Take off is optional, landing is manditory. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Feb 16 23:05:57 2002 g1H55v809643 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2002 23:05:57 - Subject: Re: Maimed channer@frontier.net In a message dated 2/16/02 11:40:33 AM Central Standard Time, Grhghlndr writes: Yeah I do! Walking into a murder scene with other EMTs/Paramedics canfreak you pretty well. We had a guy who shot himself in the head with a power nailer, that was fascinating! I can remember a kid in 7th grade getting a hand caught in a bench grinder and losing a part of a few fingers, and my buddy Walt who slipped while using a planer and shoved his hand in. Another guy got caught when a board splintered in a mill operation and threw a chunk of wood across a shop and ran a 3 foot long splinter that must have weighed 10 lbs, right through his arm.Like I said, if you have a tool that CAN hurt you, it will unless you are awfully cautious! I am leery of Dado blades, which honestly was my original point. It was INTENDED as a somewhat tongue in cheek warning to Dado blade users to please please please keep your wits about you! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from bob@downandacross.com Sun Feb 17 04:40:12 2002 g1HAeB813617 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:40:11 - Subject: RE: Maybe I could make ferrule plugs out of them? Thanks for the info, I think?Bob -----Original Message----- nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Subject: Re: In a message dated 2/16/02 8:29:35 AM Central Standard Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: ACtually, a friend who is into cutting and polishing stone, says that petrified Dinosaur Turds polish up real nice! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from p.h.e@frisurf.no Sun Feb 17 08:12:34 2002 g1HECX815069 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:12:33 - for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:12:26+0100 (MET) Subject: test test? from p.h.e@frisurf.no Sun Feb 17 08:15:54 2002 g1HEFq815429 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:15:53 - for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:15:46+0100 (MET) Subject: Re: 3 Piece Rod Hi, I think Danny Twang has made a great 3-piece Driggs "Traveler", usingHexRod to convert the taper to a 3-weight and 3-piece. The rod is hanging onmy wall while Danny is in NZ, it is a beautiful rod with a little deeperaction than a ordinary Driggs (because of the extra ferrule?) In other wordslet hexrod do the job and start with a Driggsand just convert to a 3- piece. Speaking about Danny Twang I have to thank him for lending my all hisequipment while he is away to NZ, I have no finished my first rod - a bitoversized, with not the best wraps I hve seen, but feels great all the same.Straightening and gossamer silk stinks, but I have not given up and have aMidge in progress. regard Pöl H. Eliassen -----Original Message----- Notsooyoun@aol.com Subject: 3 Piece Rod I have two questions I would like to put to the list.First I built my second rod and there are bubbles in the spar urethane. Whatis the best method to remove the bubbles or imperfection?Second I'm looking for a good taper for a three piece rod, 7'6" for 5 weightline. Which is the best place to take the mid section from? The bottom oftheculm where the butt is split, or the top where the tip is split? Sorry, Iguess that's three questions. Thanks in advance for any helpNotso from mmihalas@mindspring.com Sun Feb 17 08:17:00 2002 g1HEGw815697 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:16:59 - helo=smaug) id 16cS7c-00053Q-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:16:57 -0500 Subject: Tung Based Varnish I have a couple of questions regarding varnishes: Can anyone name some varnishes that contain tung oil so I can see what isavailable to me locally? Is there such a thing as a urethane or polyurethane that contains tung or isit only non-poly spar varnishes that contain tung oil? Thanks! Mike Mihalas from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Feb 17 08:41:57 2002 g1HEfv816612 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:41:57 -0600 Subject: OT, non hpv, non rodmakers, Is it just me? Hey! is it just me or is the e-mail getting reallyfilled up with junk for you guys too. I got on this morning and got something like 50 messages. and after eliminating stuff like, "Free Phone", "Barnyard sluts" "See Brittiny Spears Naked" "Low cost life insurance" and other junk, including all sorts of "warning, attachment in e-mail" messages from AOL, I had about a dozen messages that I actually wanted to read. I don't really WANT to start banning specific addresses but maybe I will have to do that. appeared to come from my ISP, in my case AOL. that said, "We need you to sign in using your password" which I did, and it ended up to be a site that also wanted my credit card number and promised all sorts of "teenage girls doing disgusting things" no prude here, b ut still, it was a bit strange, even for me! i shut it off and didn't think any more about it until I got an e-mail from someone who "screamed" at me for sending her pornography inher e- mail. (I don't do that!) I checked with AOL and asked what to do. they said that "someone has evidently gotten your passworrd, you should changeit regularly." Um... Stupid me! I then remembered the password incident from a few weeks before. so I changed the password and ran a virus scan,(nothing) and so far no more nasty mail. But still, be careful out there!Just a word to you all to be careful eh! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from p.h.e@frisurf.no Sun Feb 17 08:43:12 2002 g1HEhA816762 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:43:10 - for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:43:04+0100 (MET) Subject: Re: 3 piece Sorry about the spelling: Driggs and, now, me, etc. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Feb 17 09:00:25 2002 g1HF0O817337 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:00:24 - helo=computer) id 16cSne-0003vF-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 07:00:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish Mike, Check out Formby's Tung Oil Finish Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tung Based Varnish I have a couple of questions regarding varnishes: Can anyone name some varnishes that contain tung oil so I can see what isavailable to me locally? Is there such a thing as a urethane or polyurethane that contains tung or is it only non-poly spar varnishes that contain tung oil? Thanks! Mike Mihalas from utzerath@execpc.com Sun Feb 17 09:36:29 2002 g1HFaS817991 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:36:28 - g1HFaR548379; g1HFaQF83828; Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish General Finishes has been making what they advertise as a tung oil/urethanefinish brand named "ARM-R-SEAL". It's available in gloss if you look forit.Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tung Based Varnish I have a couple of questions regarding varnishes: Can anyone name some varnishes that contain tung oil so I can see what isavailable to me locally? Is there such a thing as a urethane or polyurethane that contains tung or is it only non-poly spar varnishes that contain tung oil? Thanks! Mike Mihalas from swiftriverflyfishing@earthlink.net Sun Feb 17 10:08:00 2002 g1HG7x818464 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:07:59 - id 16cTr3-0006Hr-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:07:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish Rodmakers ACE hardware sells a tung oil based spar varnish that has worked very well reveal what they used as an oil base so I was very happy when I could know Rick T.---------- From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: Re: Tung Based VarnishDate: Sun, Feb 17, 2002, 10:00 AM Mike, Check out Formby's Tung Oil Finish Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Mihalas" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:16 AMSubject: Tung Based Varnish I have a couple of questions regarding varnishes: Can anyone name some varnishes that contain tung oil so I can see whatisavailable to me locally? Is there such a thing as a urethane or polyurethane that contains tung or is it only non-poly spar varnishes that contain tung oil? Thanks! Mike Mihalas from pohl@earthlink.net Sun Feb 17 10:24:25 2002 g1HGOP818927 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:24:25 - helo=kathypohl) id 16cU6x-0003zW-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:24:24 -0800 Subject: Re: lathe reccomendations guys, i understand that a 7x12. the 12 means 12" between centers. doesthismean that the longest thing that i can put in there is 12" ? justwondering..... if i want to turn a cork with the reel seet intack am i goingto have enough room? -Mark from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Feb 17 10:26:19 2002 g1HGQI819105 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:26:18 -0600 Subject: Re: OT, non hpv, non rodmakers, Is it just me? I've been getting that garbage for about a week now. Way above the normal rate of spam.Guess it's a sniffer prog that picks up on an email address that is frequently active or a prog running but not known of that my fire wall hasn't picked up. That's what I've been putting it down to after asking my son if he's been in places angles fear to tread thinking details are being sourced that way even though no passwords have been given out, he say's no and unlike most kids, I believe his word. Tony At 09:41 AM 2/17/02 -0500, Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: Hey! is it just me or is the e-mail getting reallyfilled up with junk foryou guys too. I got on this morning and got something like 50 messages. andafter eliminating stuff like, "Free Phone", "Barnyard sluts" "See BrittinySpears Naked" "Low cost life insurance" and other junk, including all sortsof "warning, attachment in e-mail" messages from AOL, I had about a dozenmessages that I actually wanted to read. I don't really WANT to startbanning specific addresses but maybe I will have to do that. thatappeared to come from my ISP, in my case AOL. that said, "We need you tosign in using your password" which I did, and it ended up to be a site thatalso wanted my credit card number and promised all sorts of "teenage girlsdoing disgusting things" no prude here, b ut still, it was a bit strange,even for me! i shut it off and didn't think any more about it until I got ane-mail from someone who "screamed" at me for sending her pornography inhere- mail. (I don't do that!) I checked with AOL and asked what to do. theysaid that "someone has evidently gotten your passworrd, you should changeitregularly." Um... Stupid me! I then remembered the password incidentfroma few weeks before. so I changed the password and ran a virus scan,(nothing)and so far no more nasty mail. But still, be careful out there!Just a word to you all to be careful eh! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Feb 17 10:27:59 2002 g1HGRw819261 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:27:58 -0600 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: NRM Ontario fishing Hi all,sorry for the bandwidth, but I'm gearing up for my trip toBorden, Ontario next month and was wondering if any one here wasfamiliar with the small streams / small lake fishing around Borden /Barrie. The closer the better, I will be there for 3 months so I will betraveling some but I want some nice close to the base fishing haunts. Iwill be bringing my float tube as well.What I'm looking for are SMALL streams with brook trout / rainbow/ brown trout. They don't need to be monster fish but I would like aquiet area without 90 other guys beating the water around me.If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to hear them as well asany killer flies! I'll be in Borden from April 1 till June 28 if that'sany help. I also plan on trying to get down to the Grand River and visitTed in Ancaster and would love to try the Wilmot creek, I believe it'sdown around the outskirts of Toronto???Already found several Falconries to visit and can't wait to throwsome line, I will miss my family but will enjoy all the fishing I willbe able to do in my spare time! ;^) TIA, Shawn from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sun Feb 17 10:28:27 2002 g1HGSQ819355 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:28:27 - Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:30:01 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: lathe reccomendations Mark,no, the headstock is hollow allowing you to put the rod through it.The 12" is just the part held between the headstock and tailstock. Shawn Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: guys, i understand that a 7x12. the 12 means 12" between centers. doesthismean that the longest thing that i can put in there is 12" ? justwondering..... if i want to turn a cork with the reel seet intack am i goingto have enough room? -Mark from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Sun Feb 17 10:37:57 2002 g1HGbu819993 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:37:56 - Subject: Re: 3 Piece Rod I just built (make that am still building) a Cross Sylph 7ft 5wt rod as a 3piece. I cut the culm in three pieces for butt, mid, and tip. If the culmwas already cut, and you are doing a 3 piece with 2 tips, I would select thestrips for the mid section from the butt of the culm. Kurt -----Original Message----- Subject: 3 Piece Rod I have two questions I would like to put to the list.First I built my second rod and there are bubbles in the spar urethane. What is the best method to remove the bubbles or imperfection?Second I'm looking for a good taper for a three piece rod, 7'6" for 5 weight line. Which is the best place to take the mid section from? The bottom of the culm where the butt is split, or the top where the tip is split? Sorry, Iguess that's three questions. Thanks in advance for any helpNotso from pohl@earthlink.net Sun Feb 17 11:06:26 2002 g1HH6P820920 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:06:25 - helo=kathypohl) id 16cUlY-0003Sx-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:06:21 -0800 Subject: Re: lathe reccomendations Shawn,. I know the headstock is hollow so you can put the rod through. however Ijust measured the cork and reel seat on one of my rods and this came in at ~10.5" which doesn't give much room if if wanted to turn a cork with 2 morerings. My concern is that, if I wanted to turn a slightly longer cork andthe reel seat was little longer, would I be able to do it on a 7x12 lathe?Mark ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: lathe reccomendations Mark,no, the headstock is hollow allowing you to put the rod through it. The 12" is just the part held between the headstock and tailstock. Shawn Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: guys, i understand that a 7x12. the 12 means 12" between centers. does this mean that the longest thing that i can put in there is 12" ? justwondering..... if i want to turn a cork with the reel seet intack am i going to have enough room? -Mark from saweiss@flash.net Sun Feb 17 11:58:36 2002 g1HHwa821874 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:58:36 - g1HHwYl148232 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:58:34 -0500 Subject: Re: lathe reccomendations Organization: Prodigy Internet Mark,You may be too close for comfort with a 12" lathe. Depending on thecenter, a live center could be longer than a dead center, which the specsare based on. Also, if you decide to use a Jacobs chuck to hold a drill bitin the tailstock, you will have even less flexibility with this small alathe.If you have the choice, you would be much better off with an older Atlasor Sears/Atlas 6" bench-mounted lathe. They are always available for a fewhundred dollars on ebay and parts are also always available. For a betterchoice, you could go up to a 9" or larger Logan, Atlas, or Southbend. Theseolder American-made lathes are stronger and more stable than the minilathes, reliable, and there are tons of parts and accessory tooling around,and there are great user groups on the internet.I used a 10" Logan made in the '40s for years. I just got an 11" Loganto replace it because the headstock hole is larger and the bed is 36"insteadof 24".Steve guys, i understand that a 7x12. the 12 means 12" between centers. does this mean that the longest thing that i can put in there is 12" ? justwondering..... if i want to turn a cork with the reel seet intack am i going to have enough room? -Mark from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Feb 17 13:13:00 2002 g1HJCx823313 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:12:59 - (authenticated) Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:14:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish Rick, I, too, have had some success with the ACE brand spar varnish, but foundastrong tendency for the varnish to pull towards the corners of the hexagonwhenremoving the rod from the dip tube. Have you encountered that difficulty,andif so, have you managed to overcome it? I really like the dark tint of thevarnish, and the way it polishes easily, but the above mentioned problem hasprompted me to seek something else for my final finish.Also, you mention knowing what the base is for the finish... I'd sure liketo know that myself. Thanks,Harry swiftriverflyfishing wrote: ACE hardware sells a tung oil based spar varnish that has worked very well reveal what they used as an oil base so I was very happy when I could know -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sun Feb 17 14:25:31 2002 g1HKPU824506 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:25:31 - Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:25:22 -0800 Subject: Re: lathe reccomendations FILETIME=[39956D20:01C1B7F1] You can turn cork handles on just about any mini-lathe, even if it has only10 inches between centers. Just turn it on a mandrel. Get a 1/4 inchdiameter steel rod from the hardware store, chuck it in your lathe, andcenter drill the end. This will fit into a live center. Glue your cork onthe steel rod- if you use tightbond II it won't weld the cork to the steel.Drill a 5/16 hole down through the corner of your workbench. When the gluedries, put the steel rod in the hole and give it a tap with a hammer. Thiswill loosen the cork enough so you can slide the rod out, but it will betight enough to turn on the lathe. I would never turn a grip while on the rod. First, you can mess up, likethis morning when I turned the carriage feed the wrong way and gouged out anice trench. The grip turned out well, but not as the full wells I hadstarted to make. Second, I sometimes find hidden pits or occlusions thatmake a handle cosmetically imperfect, or actually impractical to use. If Idiscovered this on the rod, it would be too late to fix it without a lot ofwork, and that cork is history. You have to cut it off. If it is on amandrel you can just toss it into the "future cork reel seat" drawer. I havesalvaged a lot of expensive cork that way. It is also incredibly easy toream out the 1/4 inch hole with a rat tail file chucked in the lathe. Bottom line is, even if I had a long bed lathe, I would turn handles on themandrel. Safer for rod, too. I also somehow think that it is a good idea tominimize the time the rod is spinned at high RPM's. Jeff Schaeffer from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Feb 17 15:44:27 2002 g1HLiQ826363 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:44:26 - (63.228.47.223) Subject: Sir "D" The Sir "D" is the 7'-0" 4 wt. in Wayne's book right? The Sir "D" is the = wt. in Wayne's book right? from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Feb 17 16:56:11 2002 g1HMuA828112 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:56:10 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4185. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.716525 secs); 17 Feb 2002 22:56:05 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish Tung Oil Varnish. Waterlox, Man-O-War, and in my opinion the best, Pratt & Lambert #61. Marty Mike Mihalas wrote: I have a couple of questions regarding varnishes: Can anyone name some varnishes that contain tung oil so I can see what isavailable to me locally? Is there such a thing as a urethane or polyurethane that contains tung or isit only non-poly spar varnishes that contain tung oil? Thanks! Mike Mihalas from dickay@alltel.net Sun Feb 17 16:56:13 2002 g1HMuD828123 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:56:13 - srv.alltel.net Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:56:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Sir "D" With a couple of thousandths added to the first 15 inches of the tip. Subject: Sir "D" The Sir "D" is the 7'-0" 4 wt. in Wayne's book right? With a couple of thousandths added to the first 15 = the tip. ----- Original Message ----- Dave =Norling Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002= PMSubject: Sir "D" Wayne's book right? from jojo@ipa.net Sun Feb 17 17:40:46 2002 g1HNej829406 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:40:45 -0600 helo=default) id 16cav9-0004ZX-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:40:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Sir "D" The Sir D is the one in the book. Darryl Hayashida's .002 additions on =the first 15" were simply his modification of that taper. M-D The Sir "D" is the 7'-0" 4 wt. in Wayne's book right? The Sir D is the one in= modification of that taper. M-D Dave =Norling Wayne's book right? from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 17 18:24:11 2002 g1I0OA800160 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:24:10 - g1I0O8E03749 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:24:08 -0600 Subject: How about this. This came from another list I am on. I cut andpasted this part.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Many local fishermen use braided twenty pound testbacking dyed green or gray as a substitute flyline. It performs every bit as well as my silkline when it comes to detecting the take of atrout andcasts nearly as well. I use tapered silk flyline, I guess, because I like conventional flytackle andbecause I'm set in my ways. Believe me, thealternative to silk is a lot cheaper and requiresa lotless maintenance. Has any one out there tried this? Any info wouldbe appreciated. Just curious, might give it a try, someday.Delbert from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 17 18:36:24 2002 g1I0aN800626 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:36:23 - g1I0Z3E03872; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:35:03 -0600 Subject: Sowbug Roundup Flyfishing Show The North Arkansas Flyfishers will present theSowbug Roundup Fly Fishing show on March 15-16 atthe Ramada Inn in Mtn. Home Arkansas. At this timewe have 97 Fly tyers that will be demonstratingtheir methods of tying flies. There will beprograms on Night fishing, Warm water fishing andBamboo Rod Making along with other programs. Thisyear we will be going International with MartinWestbeek from the Netherlands . Martin will be oneof our Featured tyers along with Davy Wooten, andothers. The whole crew from Wapsi Flies will bethere. tyers see our web page.http://www.northarkansasflyfisher.org/Most proceeds from this show go to youth groups,scholarships, donations to environment projects,ect.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Feb 17 19:09:13 2002 g1I19C801556 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:09:12 - g1I196E7016323 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:09:07 - Subject: Re: hollowbuilt mark Heh, heh. I went thorugh F-4 training at Bergstrom AFB with a bunch of jar heads that were all on their way out to Calififi. El Toro I believe. Craziest bunch of knuckleheads I ever met. We had a good time with 'em though. Yer little bro' gets my thumbs up. At least he's getting to contributte to the war effort, whilst all I'm allowed to do is fly a desk.... About the humor, you're exactamundo. I think aircrews, medical folks, GI's in general, and undertakers have the weirdest senses of humor. I have a real good friend who's the second in command mortician for the Dept. of Defense. You wanna talk about a morbid sense of humor..... Whoweee. I don't know why I ever agreed to it, but he talked me into observing a body prep for an official military burial.... Ya don't want to know, but OH MY GOD, was he and the other morticians in the mortuary funnier than a crutch!!!!! the other mark(ya know, if someone said out names twice real fast, it's sound like a harelip dog..... You know - Here boy! mark, mark.....) At 11:44 PM 2/16/02 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 2/16/02 9:42:18 AM Central Standard Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: to fly fighter jets with Uncle Sam' Great Fraternal Flying Club, theUSAF. >> dude! I am also a former member of Uncle sam's flying club for boys! thoughI kept my head about me and my feet firmly planted on teh ground thankyouvery much! Mi younger (and more stupid, I might add) brother decided thatbeing a Marine would be a good idea and flew A6E aircraft. He is even nowmonitoring e-mail from the lovely coast of California in search of evildo-ers who write disgusting things to their friends and relatives. Cdr Daveis now in the USN reserve and a real pain in the ass as a human being, buthis humor follows my own favorite, dark and grim mostly! But hey, if youcan't laugh at yourself and your own foibles, how on earth can you ever doany good in the world. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Feb 17 19:12:05 2002 g1I1C5801810 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:12:05 - g1I1C3E7016349 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:12:04 - Subject: Re: Was: hollowbuilt, Now: Dark Humor Yup, that is one of the great truths of aviation... Also, any landing you can walk away from is a good one. Oh yeah, here's something most folks don't realize. That there propeller on the front of the airplane? Ain't nothin' but a big fan. 'Tis true. Just look how much the pilot sweats when it stops turning..... Mark At 11:51 PM 2/16/02 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 2/16/02 10:42:50 AM Central Standard Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, completely unforgiving ofcareless mistakes." >> There is also the other general rule of aviation, Take off is optional,landing is manditory. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from harms1@pa.net Sun Feb 17 19:12:08 2002 g1I1C7801817 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:12:08 - ,, "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish Rick, Is there a good reason for not "mixing oils?" I had not heard that mixingtung and linseed (for instance) would create a problem. They have somewhatdifferent properties, to be sure, but are they in any way incompatable? Oris it just a preference thing that you are speaking of? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish ACE hardware sells a tung oil based spar varnish that has worked very well reveal what they used as an oil base so I was very happy when I could know Rick T.---------- From: "Adam Vigil" Subject: Re: Tung Based VarnishDate: Sun, Feb 17, 2002, 10:00 AM Mike, Check out Formby's Tung Oil Finish Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: "Mike Mihalas" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:16 AMSubject: Tung Based Varnish I have a couple of questions regarding varnishes: Can anyone name some varnishes that contain tung oil so I can see what is available to me locally? Is there such a thing as a urethane or polyurethane that contains tung or is it only non-poly spar varnishes that contain tung oil? Thanks! Mike Mihalas from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Feb 17 19:13:26 2002 g1I1DQ802098 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:13:26 - g1I1DOE7016369 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:13:24 - Subject: RE: Nah, they'd be pretty crappy plugs....... Mark At 05:40 AM 2/17/02 -0500, you wrote: Maybe I could make ferrule plugs out of them? Thanks for the info, I think?Bob -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:38 PM nicholas.kingston@ipb.ieCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: In a message dated 2/16/02 8:29:35 AM Central Standard Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: ACtually, a friend who is into cutting and polishing stone, says thatpetrified Dinosaur Turds polish up real nice! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Feb 17 19:18:40 2002 g1I1Id802563 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:18:39 - g1I1IbE7016424 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:18:37 - Subject: Re: OT, non hpv, non rodmakers, Is it just me? Brittney Spears? You got Brittney Spears nekkid????? Duuuuuuuuuddddddde. Mark At 09:41 AM 2/17/02 -0500, you wrote: Hey! is it just me or is the e-mail getting reallyfilled up with junk foryou guys too. I got on this morning and got something like 50 messages. andafter eliminating stuff like, "Free Phone", "Barnyard sluts" "See BrittinySpears Naked" "Low cost life insurance" and other junk, including all sortsof "warning, attachment in e-mail" messages from AOL, I had about a dozenmessages that I actually wanted to read. I don't really WANT to startbanning specific addresses but maybe I will have to do that. thatappeared to come from my ISP, in my case AOL. that said, "We need you tosign in using your password" which I did, and it ended up to be a site thatalso wanted my credit card number and promised all sorts of "teenage girlsdoing disgusting things" no prude here, b ut still, it was a bit strange,even for me! i shut it off and didn't think any more about it until I got ane-mail from someone who "screamed" at me for sending her pornography inhere- mail. (I don't do that!) I checked with AOL and asked what to do. theysaid that "someone has evidently gotten your passworrd, you should changeitregularly." Um... Stupid me! I then remembered the password incidentfroma few weeks before. so I changed the password and ran a virus scan,(nothing)and so far no more nasty mail. But still, be careful out there!Just a word to you all to be careful eh! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 17 19:28:55 2002 g1I1So803051 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:28:54 - g1I1SdE04443 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:28:39 -0600 Subject: Re: OT, non hpv, non rodmakers, Is it just me Hi Mark, Same here.I am getting so much porno crap that I am about tochange my E address.What happens is a lot of these places sell your Eaddress. If you open themessage in a lot of cases it lets them know it isa good address. If youreplywith wanting to be removed they know it is a goodaddress even though youget abounced message. Some of these people join allthese lists just to getaddresses.This is the reason I send stuff to myself and BBCall the other addresses,theother addresses don't show up in the headerI have filters on about 40 names and addresses andthey still get aroundit.Of over 50 messages today only about 20 were realmessages to me. I don'topenany that I am not sure of.Some crap to put up with.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: Hey! is it just me or is the e-mail getting reallyfilled up with junkfor you guys too. I got on this morning and got something like 50 messages.and after eliminating stuff like, "Free Phone", "Barnyard sluts" "SeeBrittiny Spears Naked" "Low cost life insurance" and other junk, including allsorts of "warning, attachment in e-mail" messages from AOL, I had about a dozen messages that I actually wanted to read. I don't really WANT to start banning specific addresses but maybe I will have to do that. appeared to come from my ISP, in my case AOL. that said, "We need you to sign in using your password" which I did, and it ended up to be a sitethat also wanted my credit card number and promised all sorts of "teenagegirls doing disgusting things" no prude here, b ut still, it was a bitstrange, even for me! i shut it off and didn't think any more about it until Igot an e-mail from someone who "screamed" at me for sending her pornography inher e-mail. (I don't do that!) I checked with AOL and asked what to do.they said that "someone has evidently gotten your passworrd, you should changeit regularly." Um... Stupid me! I then remembered the password incidentfrom a few weeks before. so I changed the password and ran a virus scan,(nothing) and so far no more nasty mail. But still, be careful out there! Just a word to you all to be careful eh! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 17 19:47:50 2002 g1I1lo803625 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:47:50 - g1I1lmE04611; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:47:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Was: hollowbuilt, Now: Dark Humor I have had a couple that stopped turning. The biggest pucker faction is whenyou loose about 12" from one blade. It will shake you up in more ways thanone. Makes one heck of a noise too.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mark Wendt wrote: Yup, that is one of the great truths of aviation... Also, any landing youcan walk away from is a good one. Oh yeah, here's something most folksdon't realize. That there propeller on the front of the airplane? Ain'tnothin' but a big fan. 'Tis true. Just look how much the pilot sweatswhen it stops turning..... Mark At 11:51 PM 2/16/02 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 2/16/02 10:42:50 AM Central Standard Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, completely unforgiving ofcareless mistakes." >> There is also the other general rule of aviation, Take off is optional,landing is manditory. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Feb 17 20:19:14 2002 g1I2JD804496 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:19:13 - g1I2JAE7016915 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:19:11 - Subject: Re: Was: hollowbuilt, Now: Dark Humor Tony, Only ever had one prop job stop spinning on me. Luckily enough, I was able to land on a highway strip in Korea. Either that, or it was a rice paddy. If you've ever been in Korea, you reaaaalllllly don't want to land in a rice paddy. Soft? Surrrre. They use, uh, er, human waste for manure...... Mark At 07:44 PM 2/17/02 -0600, you wrote: I have had a couple that stopped turning. The biggest pucker faction is whenyou loose about 12" from one blade. It will shake you up in more ways thanone. Makes one heck of a noise too.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mark Wendt wrote: Yup, that is one of the great truths of aviation... Also, any landing youcan walk away from is a good one. Oh yeah, here's something most folksdon't realize. That there propeller on the front of the airplane? Ain'tnothin' but a big fan. 'Tis true. Just look how much the pilot sweatswhen it stops turning..... Mark At 11:51 PM 2/16/02 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 2/16/02 10:42:50 AM Central Standard Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, completely unforgiving ofcareless mistakes." >> There is also the other general rule of aviation, Take off is optional,landing is manditory. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Feb 17 20:48:15 2002 g1I2mD805785 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:48:14 - Subject: Re: Sir "D" Yes!! The one and only. TY At 03:45 PM 2/17/02 -0600, Dave Norling wrote: The Sir "D" is the 7'-0" 4 wt. in Wayne's book right? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Feb 17 20:50:00 2002 g1I2nx805980 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:49:59 - Subject: Re: Sir "D" Nope, it's the original out of the book, you one you just described is the Darryl H modification of the original. Tony At 04:50 PM 2/17/02 -0600, Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: With a couple of thousandths added to the first 15 inches of the tip. ----- Original Message -----From: Dave Norling Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 3:45 PMSubject: Sir "D" The Sir "D" is the 7'-0" 4 wt. in Wayne's book right? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 17 21:37:28 2002 g1I3bR807186 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:37:27 - g1I3bO821922; ------------------------------ Cut here ------------------------------ Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:37:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Was: hollowbuilt, Now: Dark Humor Mark,Got out of the Air force just before Korea, my whole squadron went, I missedit bythree weeks. I was a B 26 crew member, flew the Jump Seat. Had two timesthatprops stopped, both on civilian planes. One was a converted T 50 Cessnatwin, bothfans quit in final approach. Only took out a few fence posts. The other wasanExperimental plane, made it to the runway but short, hit the ditch and rolledafew times. As you can see I walked away. The loss of 12 " of prop was on an"Airnocker". Was over Lake Texhoma. I guess you would call that stopping a"partial fan". Did make it to a pasture with some Rodeo Bulls after hoppingoversome high lines. Gee, remember another one now, it was when I was flyingwith aWW1 Airshow, had the engine quit on a BE2C in a dogfight. I was supposed tobeshot down anyway.The man upstairs was watching over me all those times.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mark Wendt wrote: Tony, Only ever had one prop job stop spinning on me. Luckily enough, Iwas able to land on a highway strip in Korea. Either that, or it was arice paddy. If you've ever been in Korea, you reaaaalllllly don't want toland in a rice paddy. Soft? Surrrre. They use, uh, er, human waste formanure...... Mark At 07:44 PM 2/17/02 -0600, you wrote: I have had a couple that stopped turning. The biggest pucker faction iswhenyou loose about 12" from one blade. It will shake you up in more ways thanone. Makes one heck of a noise too.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mark Wendt wrote: Yup, that is one of the great truths of aviation... Also, any landing youcan walk away from is a good one. Oh yeah, here's something mostfolksdon't realize. That there propeller on the front of the airplane? Ain'tnothin' but a big fan. 'Tis true. Just look how much the pilot sweatswhen it stops turning..... Mark At 11:51 PM 2/16/02 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 2/16/02 10:42:50 AM Central Standard Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, completely unforgiving ofcareless mistakes." >> There is also the other general rule of aviation, Take off is optional,landing is manditory. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sun Feb 17 22:46:14 2002 g1I4kD808558 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:46:13 -0600 g1I4lFhw030606 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:47:16 -0600 Subject: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) I just burned up my trim router from Harbor Freight. Has anyone else hadproblems with the HF trim router (the silver one)? I just ordered another from HF so I can finish up some milling. I'd like to here some feedback onthese routers. Thanks, Darrin from geert.poorteman@undp.org Mon Feb 18 01:21:12 2002 g1I7LB812569 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 01:21:11 - for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 02:21:06 - 0500 Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:15:52 +0200 Subject: Re: Flaming Hi,I heat my strips (I build nodeless) up to 200ŸC (now YOU imperial measureguys dothe conversion!!!) in my kitchen oven untill they are almost black. After thistoo aggressive heat treatment, I discard the ones damaged by the heath(bend themand if the powerfibers don't stay together it is bad) and keep the ones thatlookstill OK. Makes a nice dark brown-almost black rod. When gluing the splicestogether, I don't care that the colours do not match exacly, on the contrary,Ilike it! I look for diferent pieces of bamboo to glue together so the jointsclearly show.Geert KyleDruey@aol.com a Äcrit: List, How can I get a rod to look almost black? I think Nunley has a picture of arod on his website that looks charred (the one with the green wraps). Funny,but I like the way it looks. How does one get that dark, charred lookingeffect without damaging the integrity of the power fibers? Thanks, Kyle from geert.poorteman@undp.org Mon Feb 18 02:26:20 2002 g1I8QJ813420 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 02:26:19 - for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 03:26:13 - 0500 Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:20:40 +0200 Subject: Re: How about this. Hi Tony,I do this, and it casts great. I haven't fished with my lines yet, butthey cast very well. You can taper the ends by oicking out strands andmake the belly thicker by slipping another line in it with a bluntneddle.Geert Tony Spezio a Äcrit: This came from another list I am on. I cut andpasted this part.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Many local fishermen use braided twenty pound testbacking dyed green or gray as a substitute flyline. It performs every bit as well as my silkline when it comes to detecting the take of atrout andcasts nearly as well. I use tapered silk flyline, I guess, because I like conventional flytackle andbecause I'm set in my ways. Believe me, thealternative to silk is a lot cheaper and requiresa lotless maintenance. Has any one out there tried this? Any info wouldbe appreciated. Just curious, might give it a try, someday.Delbert from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Mon Feb 18 03:42:47 2002 g1I9gk814236 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 03:42:46 - with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:44:00 - 0000 Subject: RE: Maimed know the feelingI work for an insurance company we had a 5 y/o stuck his fingers in a road sweeperand run off after they had been removedthe driver grabbed the fingers and bagged them with iceand followed the kid home by following the trail of blood! nick -----Original Message----- channer@frontier.net Subject: Re: Maimed In a message dated 2/16/02 11:40:33 AM Central Standard Time, Grhghlndr writes: Yeah I do! Walking into a murder scene with other EMTs/Paramedics canfreak you pretty well. We had a guy who shot himself in the head with a power nailer, that was fascinating! I can remember a kid in 7th grade getting a hand caught in a bench grinder and losing a part of a few fingers, and my buddy Walt who slipped while using a planer and shoved his hand in. Another guy got caught when a board splintered in a mill operation and threw a chunk of wood across a shop and ran a 3 foot long splinter that must have weighed 10 lbs, right through his arm.Like I said, if you have a tool that CAN hurt you, it will unless youare awfully cautious! I am leery of Dado blades, which honestly was my original point. It was INTENDED as a somewhat tongue in cheek warning to Dado blade users to please please please keep your wits about you! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Mon Feb 18 04:26:19 2002 g1IAQE814807 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 04:26:16 - with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:27:22 - 0000 Subject: not quite bamboo hi all, a few years ago in Australia, their most well known bamboo maker (JohnMcGinn)started making graphite rods (fly, spin and baitcaster) using carbon Tpiecessame construction as Bamboo rods, but using pieces of carbon anyone else heard of this or know if they are still made? Nick from channer@frontier.net Mon Feb 18 06:23:17 2002 g1ICNG815968 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 06:23:17 - for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 05:23:50 - Subject: Re: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) Darrin;You're asking a bit much from any brand of trim router, they're notdesigned to take those kind of loads. Overhaul your machine to take atleast a 1 1/2 hp router and if you want that one to last, get either aPorter-Cable or a Milwaukee.By the time you buy a cheap tool 3 or 4times, you might as well have saved yourself the aggravation and boughta decent one in the first place. jmhojohn Darrin Curtis wrote: I just burned up my trim router from Harbor Freight. Has anyone else hadproblems with the HF trim router (the silver one)? I just ordered another from HF so I can finish up some milling. I'd like to here some feedback onthese routers. Thanks, Darrin from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Mon Feb 18 08:33:10 2002 g1IEX9818389 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:33:09 - Subject: guide spacing for 9' 6wt Payne 206 Does anybody have the guide spacing for the 9ft 6 wt Payne 206 3pc rod? Thanks Mark from Jkvseafood@aol.com Mon Feb 18 09:01:10 2002 g1IF19820115 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:01:09 - Subject: Re: lathe reccomendations i turn cork on a mandrel with a wood lathe then after the cork is shaped glue it on the rod. i have several mandrels of various sizes and tapers and use a self adhering high quality 1" wide sandpaper that keeps the cork from slipping while the grip is turning. i made my mandrels out of solid fiberglass blanks for the tapered mandrels and use aluminum bar stock and wood dowels for none tapered mandrels. i made a lot of graphite rods and these worked very good for all of my own rods that all have cork grips. from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Feb 18 09:06:15 2002 g1IF6E820472 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:06:14 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: How about this. Geert, What line weight rod will cast this? I would think only a one weight or two weight...what is your experience? Do you have to dress them to float? Thanks.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Geert Poorteman wrote: Hi Tony,I do this, and it casts great. I haven't fished with my lines yet, butthey cast very well. You can taper the ends by oicking out strands andmake the belly thicker by slipping another line in it with a bluntneddle.Geert -- > from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Mon Feb 18 09:15:02 2002 Received: from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Received: by IPBN with Internet Mail Service(5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:16:17 -0000 Message- Subject: RE: HEX Cheers Do you know if they have web site? Nick -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: cape fear rods, they make a hex rod in graphite. from bob@downandacross.com Mon Feb 18 09:35:24 2002 g1IFZN822437 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:35:23 - ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:35:18 -0500 Subject: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Guys:I have noticed an increase in junk mail, and I am especially disturned bydisgusting pornographic websites being sent. Many include animals and otherhorrific stuff. I cannot figure why they have targeted me (I know the usualway you get on such lists). I just filter them and go on with life. It bugsme that someone out there likes that junk enough for someone else to makesites for it.This one you may be able to help me with...My big concern is a rash of e-mails that have no subject line. For somereason, Outlook 2000 crashes when the are next in line to read. Are theydangerous or is this a typical Outlook glitch? My virus scan does not seemconcerned with them, but the PC crashes.Thanks.Bob from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Feb 18 09:48:16 2002 g1IFmF823334 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:48:15 - Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:48:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) FILETIME=[AA66ED60:01C1B893] The HF trim routers frequently have a bent shaft. Get another brand. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) Darrin;You're asking a bit much from any brand of trim router, they're notdesigned to take those kind of loads. Overhaul your machine to take atleast a 1 1/2 hp router and if you want that one to last, get either aPorter-Cable or a Milwaukee.By the time you buy a cheap tool 3 or 4times, you might as well have saved yourself the aggravation and boughta decent one in the first place. jmhojohn Darrin Curtis wrote: I just burned up my trim router from Harbor Freight. Has anyone else h= ad problems with the HF trim router (the silver one)? I just ordered anot= her from HF so I can finish up some milling. I'd like to here some feedbac= k on these routers. Thanks, Darrin The HFtrim ro= =----- Original Message ----- From: channer Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 7:25 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Trim Router (HarborFre= any=brand of trim router, they're notdesigned to take those kind of load=s. Overhaul your machine to take atleast a 1 1/2 hp router and if you=want that one to last, get either aPorter-Cable or a Milwaukee.By th=e time you buy a cheap tool 3 or 4times, you might as well have saved=yourself the aggravation and boughta decent one in the first place. = up= pr= Darrin from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Feb 18 09:52:06 2002 g1IFq4823749 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:52:05 - Subject: Re: How about this. "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" More to the point how do I get one or are these a DIY jobbie? Tony At 10:09 AM 2/18/02 -0500, Reed Curry wrote: Geert,What line weight rod will cast this? I would think only a one weight or two weight...what is your experience? Do you have to dress them to float? Thanks.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Geert Poorteman wrote: Hi Tony,I do this, and it casts great. I haven't fished with my lines yet, butthey cast very well. You can taper the ends by oicking out strands andmake the belly thicker by slipping another line in it with a bluntneddle.Geert -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Feb 18 09:52:39 2002 g1IFqc823860 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:52:39 -0600 g1IFqPE15096; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:52:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) Darrin,I have been using two of them for about two years and have had no problems.Idon't use them for industrial use.If you had it for less than a year they will replace it free of charge.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Darrin Curtis wrote: I just burned up my trim router from Harbor Freight. Has anyone else hadproblems with the HF trim router (the silver one)? I just ordered another from HF so I can finish up some milling. I'd like to here some feedback onthese routers. Thanks, Darrin from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Feb 18 09:58:56 2002 g1IFwt824557 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:58:55 - (authenticated) Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:00:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) John, Catch 'em on sale for $19.95, and buy a handful. Ifsome of them aren't any good, well, big deal. The one Ihave works okay. [:-)] Harry John Long wrote: The HF trim routers frequently have a bent shaft. Getanother brand. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Feb 18 10:08:49 2002 g1IG8l825236 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:08:48 - "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Bob,I've always been getting junk emailed to me because I'm on a few lists and because of the work I do I have to download a lot of 3rd party programs like add ons to browsers and data bases etc to test them for different places I have done jobs for. Almost every one I tried was a waste of time incidently.I don't do this so much now because I'm moving away from this kind of work but I always noticed that when doing a few of these and using them the garbage arriving in my email increased. No points for knowing why this is so.I use Zone Alarm (another 3rd party prog) which I suppose is almost useless email address OR you need to give the email address to download the prog or to make the thing work. Now, I trust politician not at all, not even one little bit but I consider even them to be on a higher plane than faceless Internet spamers and I suspect that may be where you are getting grief from. Are these dangerous possibly yes even if they are not actually a virus because they may be harboring a prog that is sitting around sending back info without you knowing about it.My policy has been and will remain that if any email arrives that is slightly off looking it's binned. Tony At 10:35 AM 2/18/02 -0500, Bob Maulucci wrote: Guys:I have noticed an increase in junk mail, and I am especially disturned bydisgusting pornographic websites being sent. Many include animals and otherhorrific stuff. I cannot figure why they have targeted me (I know the usualway you get on such lists). I just filter them and go on with life. It bugsme that someone out there likes that junk enough for someone else tomakesites for it.This one you may be able to help me with...My big concern is a rash of e-mails that have no subject line. For somereason, Outlook 2000 crashes when the are next in line to read. Are theydangerous or is this a typical Outlook glitch? My virus scan does not seemconcerned with them, but the PC crashes.Thanks.Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Feb 18 10:10:55 2002 g1IGAs825552 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:10:54 - "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) That's right. If the router makes a different noise to usual when is use the shaft is bent. You'll also feel a lot of vibration above and beyond normal. If this is so deep 6 it right off, it'll only damage the machine and you if you persist with it. Tony At 10:46 AM 2/18/02 -0500, John Long wrote: The HF trim routers frequently have a bent shaft. Get another brand. john ----- Original Message -----From: channerSent: Monday, February 18, 2002 7:25 AM Subject: Re: Trim Router (Harbor Freight) Darrin;You're asking a bit much from any brand of trim router, they're notdesigned to take those kind of loads. Overhaul your machine to take atleast a 1 1/2 hp router and if you want that one to last, get either aPorter-Cable or a Milwaukee.By the time you buy a cheap tool 3 or 4times, you might as well have saved yourself the aggravation and boughta decent one in the first place. jmhojohn Darrin Curtis wrote: I just burned up my trim router from Harbor Freight. Has anyone elsehadproblems with the HF trim router (the silver one)? I just ordered another from HF so I can finish up some milling. I'd like to here some feedback on these routers. Thanks, Darrin /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Mon Feb 18 10:19:35 2002 g1IGJY826302 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:19:34 - with HTTP id 12497649; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:19:27 -0500 Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" I use Outlook and have never noticed this behavior. It ispossible that my security settings, my AV and Zonealarmare keeping something out though. I really suspect that a lot of the junk mail is generatedto addresses that are somehow "mined" from web sites. Iknow that after my boss' contact info was put on our webpage, his junk mail increased by a thousandfold. I thankedthem for keeping mine off the page, I might get one amonth. Larry Blan On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:35:06 -0500"Bob Maulucci" wrote: Guys:I have noticed an increase in junk mail, and I amespecially disturned bydisgusting pornographic websites being sent. Many includeanimals and otherhorrific stuff. I cannot figure why they have targeted me(I know the usualway you get on such lists). I just filter them and go onwith life. It bugsme that someone out there likes that junk enough forsomeone else to makesites for it.This one you may be able to help me with...My big concern is a rash of e-mails that have no subjectline. For somereason, Outlook 2000 crashes when the are next in line toread. Are theydangerous or is this a typical Outlook glitch? My virusscan does not seemconcerned with them, but the PC crashes.Thanks.Bob from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Feb 18 10:33:42 2002 g1IGXe827313 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:33:41 - "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic I believe there are trawling programs that seek email address through home pages and simply ambush them en route between servers. The same kind of thing used to find CC details being sent unsecured. Tony At 11:19 AM 2/18/02 -0500, lblan@provide.net wrote: I use Outlook and have never noticed this behavior. It ispossible that my security settings, my AV and Zonealarmare keeping something out though. I really suspect that a lot of the junk mail is generatedto addresses that are somehow "mined" from web sites. Iknow that after my boss' contact info was put on our webpage, his junk mail increased by a thousandfold. I thankedthem for keeping mine off the page, I might get one amonth. Larry Blan On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:35:06 -0500"Bob Maulucci" wrote: Guys:I have noticed an increase in junk mail, and I amespecially disturned bydisgusting pornographic websites being sent. Many includeanimals and otherhorrific stuff. I cannot figure why they have targeted me(I know the usualway you get on such lists). I just filter them and go onwith life. It bugsme that someone out there likes that junk enough forsomeone else to makesites for it.This one you may be able to help me with...My big concern is a rash of e-mails that have no subjectline. For somereason, Outlook 2000 crashes when the are next in line toread. Are theydangerous or is this a typical Outlook glitch? My virusscan does not seemconcerned with them, but the PC crashes.Thanks.Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from bcombest@iclub.org Mon Feb 18 12:03:52 2002 g1II3p801492 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:03:51 - ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:04:04 -0500 Subject: spinning rod tapers I have tried to use the search engine in the RM archives and have had no =success. So, I will ask the group;Does anyone have a taper for1. An Ultralight spinning rod, 6 ft.2. A Boat or Trolling rod taper , about 6ft. I have tried to use the search engine = archives and have had no success. So, I will ask the group;Does anyone have a taper =for1. An Ultralight spinning rod, 6 =ft.2. A Boat or Trolling rod taper , about = 6ft. from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Mon Feb 18 12:11:37 2002 g1IIBa801966 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:11:36 - Subject: Re: spinning rod tapers I know that there are a few tapers listed in the Kreiger book. If yougive me a day or two I can dig them up. Also might want to check ReedCurry's web site as he has some tapers listed under the Herters section. Here is the link. http://www.overmywaders.com/extracts/herters.html Hope this is of some help Mark from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Feb 18 12:29:44 2002 g1IITh802789 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:29:43 - Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:29:37 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic I am receiving a few weirdo porno mails as well, it all started abouttwo months ago....................Paul Tony Young wrote: I believe there are trawling programs that seek email address throughhomepages and simply ambush them en route between servers. The same kindofthing used to find CC details being sent unsecured. Tony At 11:19 AM 2/18/02 -0500, lblan@provide.net wrote: I use Outlook and have never noticed this behavior. It ispossible that my security settings, my AV and Zonealarmare keeping something out though. I really suspect that a lot of the junk mail is generatedto addresses that are somehow "mined" from web sites. Iknow that after my boss' contact info was put on our webpage, his junk mail increased by a thousandfold. I thankedthem for keeping mine off the page, I might get one amonth. Larry Blan On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:35:06 -0500"Bob Maulucci" wrote: Guys:I have noticed an increase in junk mail, and I amespecially disturned bydisgusting pornographic websites being sent. Many includeanimals and otherhorrific stuff. I cannot figure why they have targeted me(I know the usualway you get on such lists). I just filter them and go onwith life. It bugsme that someone out there likes that junk enough forsomeone else to makesites for it.This one you may be able to help me with...My big concern is a rash of e-mails that have no subjectline. For somereason, Outlook 2000 crashes when the are next in line toread. Are theydangerous or is this a typical Outlook glitch? My virusscan does not seemconcerned with them, but the PC crashes.Thanks.Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Mon Feb 18 12:41:19 2002 g1IIfJ803500 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:41:19 - g1IIfH1148794 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:41:17 -0500 Subject: Re: guide spacing for 9' 6wt Payne 206 Organization: Prodigy Internet from a friend's rod, measured with the rod sections together:4 13/16, 10, 16 1/16, 22 15/16, 30 3/8, 38 1/4, 44 3/16, 50 13/16, 575/8,65 3/8Steve Does anybody have the guide spacing for the 9ft 6 wt Payne 206 3pc rod? Thanks Mark from briansr@point-net.com Mon Feb 18 13:09:23 2002 g1IJ9M804673 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:09:22 - for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:43:38 -0500 Subject: Bill Hi gangBill Clinton s giving a speech here in Montreal this P.M.Word is he'sreceiving 50,000 per event ,and substantially more under the table !!!CheersBrianPS: It's a balmy -yes -8 degrees from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Feb 18 14:30:09 2002 g1IKU6809001 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:30:07 - g1IKRQA82734; g1IL2Y811202 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:02:34 - helo=kathypohl) id 16cuvT-0007Fm-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:02:19 -0800 Subject: lathe..... Have any of you guys heard of a wood lathe (every thing except motor) thatcomes with a 3 jaw head, bed and tail. total working distance is ~ 20inches. for ~ $125. I seen one (forgot where) that looked real nice butdidn't write down the name of it, I've tried searching on the web with noluck. I think that I might recognize the name if I heard it. -Mark from aport@si.rr.com Mon Feb 18 15:25:10 2002 g1ILPA812569 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:25:10 - Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:22:43 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Bob,I'm wondering if it has anything to do with your ISP. I was getting moreand more of them on my old (phoneline) one ( small local server). Since I'veswitched to RoadRunner (cable) I'm getting none (or close to it!). Can theserver filter spam using some sort of algorithm, or whatever the virus boyscall it?Art from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Feb 18 15:53:12 2002 g1ILrB814057 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:53:11 - (216.160.236.98) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Lathes vs. mills Hi all, I just found out that my father has a small milling machine that he isn'tusing much these days. Thought it might work for ferrules and such. Anyoneuse a mill for ferrules? Will that work? I don't know anything aboutmills, but figure I could take a class at the local applied tech school ifit would be useful. Will a mill do the trick, or will I still need a lathe Jason from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Feb 18 16:23:38 2002 g1IMNb815626 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:23:37 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2118.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id OAA07838; ETAtAhRYyohRXKpKFOyQjyyDswm6etKfxQIVALQJ2s1ZMw24Rom8h0/1f2MHGCVD Subject: Re: lathe..... Feb 2002 15:56:35 -0500 Mark - I recently bought the Delta 20" with the 39" extension. Found a6" 3 jaw wood chuck at Grizzley. (about $65) Have a variety of centerhubs that will fit most any lathe. Delta has a 1" X 8tpi spindle and myJet 9 X 20 is a 1 1/2" X 8tpi spindle. Have a wood chuck for my Jetnow. I milled the face of the jaws flat s it doesn't crush the bamboowhen I do a grip. Regards, Jerry Young from aebersold@ou.edu Mon Feb 18 16:24:18 2002 g1IMOG815764 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:24:16 - id ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:24:16 -0600 "'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic This is kinda my expertise. Not sending spam but having to deal with iteveryday here at OU. What is happening is you are connected to an openrelay. This is probably your ISP. The names of these relays get publishedeveryday and until they filter the stuff and shut it down you are going toget spam. I'll include a suggested way to deal with it per my securitylead.-dDennis Aebersold-------------------------First is we have to assume that someone, and it could be anyone even not apart of the group, did not go to porn sites and sign up for the spam to be Second is that the owners of the mail server should filter for this kind ofcontent and not allow it through. Third and the best option is; depending on what client is being used, theuser must find out how to display the header information of the e-mail, and from there they will find the IP address from where the e-mail was sent from(that address is probably not the real sender of the e-mail, only a relay ofthat e-mail), go to one of the many domain name registration sites and lookup the administrative contact information for that IP address. Using thatinformation, send a copy of the header to that contact and ask them not toallow their server to be a relay of spam (no guarantees they will comply).****If the e-mail client they are using is Outlook, then they must havetheir default mail settings set to "Rich Text" format and then after theyreceive an e-mail, Right-Click on the e-mail in the inbox and open the"Options". At the bottom of the Options box will be the header information. We send the sysadmin an e-mail asking them to correct the problem, and it isusually taken care of in a few days, but not always. In a few days time whatusually happens is that e-mail server gets published to web sites thatadvertise where the open relay mail servers are located on a daily basis, soanyone that wants to send out SPAM can easily find the server and then runascript to send out SPAM to many e-mail addresses everywhere, and theydon'tcare if they are good addresses or not because it is not their e-mail serverthat has to deal with all the rejected mail. Hope this helps. ---------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Bob,I'm wondering if it has anything to do with your ISP. I was getting moreand more of them on my old (phoneline) one ( small local server). Since I'veswitched to RoadRunner (cable) I'm getting none (or close to it!). Can theserver filter spam using some sort of algorithm, or whatever the virus boyscall it?Art from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Mon Feb 18 18:08:27 2002 g1J08Q819425 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:08:26 - g1J08FH18285 Subject: Emailing: bamtex Bamboo flooring Anyone remodeling?? Your files are attached and ready to send with this message. Anyone remodeling?? message. name="bamtex.url" filename="bamtex.url" [InternetShortcut]URL=http://www.galleriacollection.com/bamtex/Modified=B095A36111B8C101D4 from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Mon Feb 18 18:13:35 2002 g1J0DY819730 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:13:34 - g1J0DVH18401; Subject: Re: Tung Based Varnish Waterlox finishes. You can buy the stuff right from their web page. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tung Based Varnish I have a couple of questions regarding varnishes: Can anyone name some varnishes that contain tung oil so I can see what isavailable to me locally? Is there such a thing as a urethane or polyurethane that contains tung or is it only non-poly spar varnishes that contain tung oil? Thanks! Mike Mihalas from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Mon Feb 18 20:57:50 2002 forged)) g1J2vn823499 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:57:49 - Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:57:44 -0800 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question FILETIME=[33F7EE00:01C1B8F1] This is embarrassing, but I have gotten myself into a sticky situation-literally and figuratively. I was experimenting with Tung oil and liked itso much that I finished several blanks with it. Now, what varnish should Iuse on the wraps? Did some test wraps with Varmor R-10 over 10 well driedcoats of Tung Oil, and the R-10 does not seem to be sticking to anything,and it is clearly not drying properly. This probably falls under thecategory of "what did you think was going to happen" but I am at a loss asto what wrap varnish would be appropriate for this type of finish. And of course, the rod in question needs to go to a Pheasants Foreverbanquet next Saturday, so I am rather anxious to get the wraps finished intime. Well, desperate would probably be closer to the truth. I am open to suggestions. Very open. Jeff Schaeffer from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Feb 18 21:15:37 2002 g1J3Fa824229 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:15:36 - 18 Feb 2002 19:15:33 PST Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question Shellac 3 coats1st 1/4 shellac 3/4 thinner 10 minutes dry 2nd 1/2 shellac 1/2 thinner 3 hours dry 3rd full shellac - 12 hours dry good luck --- Jeff Schaeffer wrote: This is embarrassing, but I have gotten myself intoa sticky situation-literally and figuratively. I was experimenting withTung oil and liked itso much that I finished several blanks with it. Now,what varnish should Iuse on the wraps? Did some test wraps with VarmorR-10 over 10 well driedcoats of Tung Oil, and the R-10 does not seem to besticking to anything,and it is clearly not drying properly. This probablyfalls under thecategory of "what did you think was going to happen"but I am at a loss asto what wrap varnish would be appropriate for thistype of finish. And of course, the rod in question needs to go to aPheasants Foreverbanquet next Saturday, so I am rather anxious to getthe wraps finished intime. Well, desperate would probably be closer tothe truth. I am open to suggestions. Very open. Jeff Schaeffer __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Feb 18 21:26:19 2002 g1J3QI824855 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:26:18 -0600 Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:26:17 PST Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question jeff, you are in a bind. i would try wiping the roddown real well with denatured alcohol. if the varnishballs up i would do it again and finally sand it downabit. then varnish. i have a friend that finishes allof his rods in pure tung oil. he wipes it on and letsit soak for awhile the wipes it off and let's it dry.he steel wools between coats and does it three times.i forget how long he rests between coats. take yourtime, take a break, slow down and you will have a moreharmonious outcome....and remember that the ox is slowbut the earth is patient ;>) timothy --- Jeff Schaeffer wrote: This is embarrassing, but I have gotten myself intoa sticky situation-literally and figuratively. I was experimenting withTung oil and liked itso much that I finished several blanks with it. Now,what varnish should Iuse on the wraps? Did some test wraps with VarmorR-10 over 10 well driedcoats of Tung Oil, and the R-10 does not seem to besticking to anything,and it is clearly not drying properly. This probablyfalls under thecategory of "what did you think was going to happen"but I am at a loss asto what wrap varnish would be appropriate for thistype of finish. And of course, the rod in question needs to go to aPheasants Foreverbanquet next Saturday, so I am rather anxious to getthe wraps finished intime. Well, desperate would probably be closer tothe truth. I am open to suggestions. Very open. Jeff Schaeffer ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Feb 18 21:53:45 2002 g1J3ri825681 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:53:44 -0600 Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:53:40 PST Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question "rod 'akers" oh! the wraps! i guess my joke doesn't apply then. geein my experience if varnish doesn't dry in hours itdries in days. hopefully someone will have a secrettidbit. let me know what you do. i cut my varnish forwraps about 20 to 25% with mineral spirits. i have hadrods not dry but yet to have the problem with wraps. ihave this to look forward to i suppose. timothy--- Jeff Schaeffer wrote: The finish on the blank seems fine, it is anything Itry to put on the wrapsthat is not sticking. Jeff ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from HomeyDKlown@att.net Tue Feb 19 05:28:55 2002 g1JBSs806962 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 05:28:54 - ;Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:28:49 +0000 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" ,"Rodmakers" Subject: RE: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic I think it's more a function of how long you've been using a particularemail address. The longer you've had it, the better the chances of it beingskimmed. I've had this address for several years now and even though I havea spam skimmer courtesy of my ISP, I still get a lot of junk mail. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Bob,I'm wondering if it has anything to do with your ISP. I was getting moreand more of them on my old (phoneline) one ( small local server). Since I'veswitched to RoadRunner (cable) I'm getting none (or close to it!). Can theserver filter spam using some sort of algorithm, or whatever the virus boyscall it?Art from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Feb 19 08:02:48 2002 g1JE2l808854 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:02:47 - Subject: RE: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools A tip - If running WIN98, use the disk cleanup feature, run a secondtime and view files, you will see the "crap generators" sextracker,hitbox and other filth related cookies delete them, these are the piecethat float from your PC to the internet when you are on-line andattracts the smut sites - Second trick, generate a second email on say,Yahoo, give out that address when downloading stuff. Zone Alarms andother fire walls will stop hackers from accessing your PC but will notstop the email crap. Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic I believe there are trawling programs that seek email address throughhome pages and simply ambush them en route between servers. The same kind of thing used to find CC details being sent unsecured. Tony At 11:19 AM 2/18/02 -0500, lblan@provide.net wrote: I use Outlook and have never noticed this behavior. It ispossible that my security settings, my AV and Zonealarmare keeping something out though. I really suspect that a lot of the junk mail is generatedto addresses that are somehow "mined" from web sites. Iknow that after my boss' contact info was put on our webpage, his junk mail increased by a thousandfold. I thankedthem for keeping mine off the page, I might get one amonth. Larry Blan On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:35:06 -0500"Bob Maulucci" wrote: Guys:I have noticed an increase in junk mail, and I am especially disturned by disgusting pornographic websites being sent. Many include animals and otherhorrific stuff. I cannot figure why they have targeted me(I know the usualway you get on such lists). I just filter them and go onwith life. It bugsme that someone out there likes that junk enough forsomeone else to makesites for it.This one you may be able to help me with...My big concern is a rash of e-mails that have no subjectline. For somereason, Outlook 2000 crashes when the are next in line toread. Are theydangerous or is this a typical Outlook glitch? My virusscan does not seemconcerned with them, but the PC crashes.Thanks.Bob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from Grnmtrds@aol.com Tue Feb 19 08:30:39 2002 g1JEUd810548 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:30:39 - for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:30:31 - Subject: BILL Look out in Montreal. I am surprised that "Slippery Bill" was even allowed into Canada. Without a doubt he is getting 50K to run his jaws and the RCMP ought to be watching what he is getting under the table. Jim from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Feb 19 11:11:52 2002 g1JHBp818693 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:11:51 - Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:11:45 +0000 ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic I seldom have any junk mail. Cookies are a source of getting on list. Ierase all cookies at least once a week and after a long session on the web.Some of the cookies, called spyware, that monitor and collect data of whattype of web page/sites you look at and report back. They then sell youraddress to spamers of the type product you visit.There is another product I use called "AdSubtract", that blocks spywarecookies from reporting back. I also have ZoneLabs as a firewall which issetup to make my PC invisible to scanners. Works for me.Don----- Original Message ----- "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e"; "Rodmakers" Subject: RE: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic I think it's more a function of how long you've been using a particularemail address. The longer you've had it, the better the chances of it beingskimmed. I've had this address for several years now and even though I havea spam skimmer courtesy of my ISP, I still get a lot of junk mail. Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Bob,I'm wondering if it has anything to do with your ISP. I was getting moreand more of them on my old (phoneline) one ( small local server). Since I'veswitched to RoadRunner (cable) I'm getting none (or close to it!). Can theserver filter spam using some sort of algorithm, or whatever the virus boyscall it?Art from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Feb 19 12:36:34 2002 g1JIaY823227 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:36:34 - Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:36:31 -0500 Subject: varnish edges FILETIME=[5985F260:01C1B974] The list is slow, and we haven't had much I don't think I've seen this discussed before, and I've searched the archives. I used my new dip tank to varnish a rod recently, and I love the way it smooths out the wraps and gives an even finish. I taped the the cork around the front of the grip and above the ferrule wrap on the ferrule. When I removed the ferrule tape (after drying), there was an ugly ridge where the tape and the varnish met that I can't get rid of. I don't want to sand it down, because that might muck up the polish/blueing on the ferrule. How do others handle this? bill hoy BTW, I finished machining my first set of ferrules last night. Took me weeks to teach myself how to do it, and about 3 feet of #13 tubing. But I sure am proud... from aport@si.rr.com Tue Feb 19 13:21:27 2002 g1JJLR825624 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:21:27 - Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:18:11 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: junk thread mail , off topic Dennis,I have a different problem. I keep getting junk thread in the mail.Yesterday I got about 20"of Gudebrod in an unmarked envelope; last week 141/2" of old Herter's silk arrived; then there was the empty spool with thepicture of an elephant on it in a Fed-Ex folder. Any idea who's sending itor how to put a stop to it?My wife used to belong to a quilting "Cee" (she was never good enough tomake it to the "Bee") and I suspect that may have something to do with it,but you never can tell with this terrorist stuff that's happening now....And why not buttonhole thread? Why thread associated only withfly-fishing/-tying? I hope it's not like the proverbial black-spot-on- theBible-page that the Mafia (or was it Pirates?) used to use. I'm too young toworry about somebody "capping" me in the back of the head with a size 14ferrule fired at close range. I mean, if someone like Dave Leclair wereinvolved in this, I've no doubt he could fashion something to fire one athose babies at lethal velocity.Confused ( and confusingly)Art (Sorry guys. Couldn't resist. Sometimes the evil side takes over and I fall"and I can't get up". As Gallagher used to say: "If you're not seeing thingsthe way I'm seeing things, maybe you're not smoking what I'm smoking!") from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 19 13:23:35 2002 g1JJNY825850 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:23:34 - (authenticated) Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:25:03 -0800 Subject: Re: varnish edges Bill, Use Scotch brand clear tape to mask off the ferrules, and the ridge will bemuch less noticeable. As soon as the varnish is tack-free, while it's stillsort of "green" remove the tape. A little work with a thumbnail will get ridof all traces of varnish on the ferrule. final coat (or coats if I'm unlucky) I only plug the opening of the female andmask off the slide of the male. A coat of varnish on the ferrules provides alittle extra protection for them and eliminates any worries about a bump. Harry Bill Hoy wrote: When I removed the ferrule tape (after drying), there was an ugly ridgewherethetape and the varnish met that I can't get rid of. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 19 13:37:19 2002 g1JJbI827235 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:37:18 - for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:37:08 - Subject: Re: varnish edges My solution is in reference to the Super Swiss ferrules I use. BTW, congrats on making your 1st ferrules, I don't have the acumen to even try!Anyway, I mask my ferrules pretty far down for the 1st 2 coats. I thenremove the tape and using paint stripper and a steady paintbrush, clean off all the varnish back up to my ferrule wrap. Most strippers are neutralized with water, so I wipe off any residue with a damp cloth, re mask just into the slide on the males, and mid barrel on the femme. After the 3rd and final coat is set, I again with the stripper clean back, but this time stop at the top of the shoulder/slide on the male, and at the shoulder on the femme. That final coat smooths out the ridge off the wrap, and the shoulder make a nice line of demarkation (if that's a word). I then lacquer the barrel on the female if the ferrule is blued.Hope that gives you some ideas to work with.... Rob Hoffhines from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Feb 19 13:38:33 2002 g1JJcW827620 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:38:33 - g1JJcPX10619; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: varnish edges Autobody shops sell this great, (painfully thin) tape for this type of masking,leaves little or no paint/varnish line. I used miles of it when I repainted theoakum lines on my Chriscraft. Great stuff, dws. Harry Boyd wrote: Bill, Use Scotch brand clear tape to mask off the ferrules, and the ridge will bemuch less noticeable. As soon as the varnish is tack-free, while it's stillsort of "green" remove the tape. A little work with a thumbnail will get ridof all traces of varnish on the ferrule. final coat (or coats if I'm unlucky) I only plug the opening of the female andmask off the slide of the male. A coat of varnish on the ferrules providesalittle extra protection for them and eliminates any worries about a bump. Harry Bill Hoy wrote: When I removed the ferrule tape (after drying), there was an ugly ridgewherethetape and the varnish met that I can't get rid of. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Feb 19 15:18:33 2002 g1JLIX809542 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:18:33 - PAA15812; PAA19715; g1JL4VQ18864; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:04:56 -0800 Dennis Haftel ,"rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: junk thread mail , off topic welcome to the dark side of the force, do not attempt to adjust yourhorizontal hold, just step back from the keyboard................ Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: junk thread mail , off topic Dennis,I have a different problem. I keep getting junk thread in the mail.Yesterday I got about 20"of Gudebrod in an unmarked envelope; last week 141/2" of old Herter's silk arrived; then there was the empty spool with thepicture of an elephant on it in a Fed-Ex folder. Any idea who's sending itor how to put a stop to it?My wife used to belong to a quilting "Cee" (she was never good enough tomake it to the "Bee") and I suspect that may have something to do with it,but you never can tell with this terrorist stuff that's happening now....And why not buttonhole thread? Why thread associated only withfly-fishing/-tying? I hope it's not like the proverbial black-spot-on- theBible-page that the Mafia (or was it Pirates?) used to use. I'm too young toworry about somebody "capping" me in the back of the head with a size 14ferrule fired at close range. I mean, if someone like Dave Leclair wereinvolved in this, I've no doubt he could fashion something to fire one athose babies at lethal velocity.Confused ( and confusingly)Art (Sorry guys. Couldn't resist. Sometimes the evil side takes over and I fall"and I can't get up". As Gallagher used to say: "If you're not seeing thingsthe way I'm seeing things, maybe you're not smoking what I'm smoking!") from rextutor@yahoo.com Tue Feb 19 15:30:07 2002 g1JLU6810666 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:30:06 - 19 Feb 2002 13:29:47 PST Subject: Re: varnish edges I pull the tape off before 24 hours usually less than12 but more than 8 . The varnish is still tacky atthe tape while but it is dry enough on the bamboo toavoid major problems in handling the rod. I usealcohol on a rag to smooth out the ridges youdescribed. --- Bill Hoy wrote: The list is slow, and we haven't had much I don'tthink I've seen this discussed before, and I've searched the archives. I used my new dip tank to varnish a rod recently,and I love the way it smooths out the wraps and gives an even finish. Itaped the the cork around the front of the grip and above the ferrule wrap onthe ferrule. When I removed the ferrule tape (after drying), there wasan ugly ridge where the tape and the varnish met that I can't get rid of. Idon't want to sand it down, because that might muck up the polish/blueingon the ferrule. How do others handle this? bill hoy BTW, I finished machining my first set of ferruleslast night. Took me weeks to teach myself how to do it, and about 3 feetof #13 tubing. But I sure am proud... __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Feb 19 15:43:20 2002 g1JLhJ811565 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:43:19 - Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:43:17 -0500 Subject: Re: varnish edges FILETIME=[70C02620:01C1B98E] Thanks for all the replies. You've all given me a lot to work on. bill At 01:29 PM 2/19/2002 -0800, Rex Tutor wrote: I pull the tape off before 24 hours usually less than12 but more than 8 . The varnish is still tacky atthe tape while but it is dry enough on the bamboo toavoid major problems in handling the rod. I usealcohol on a rag to smooth out the ridges youdescribed.--- Bill Hoy wrote: The list is slow, and we haven't had much I don'tthink I've seen thisdiscussed before, and I've searched the archives. I used my new dip tank to varnish a rod recently,and I love the way itsmooths out the wraps and gives an even finish. Itaped the the cork aroundthe front of the grip and above the ferrule wrap onthe ferrule. When Iremoved the ferrule tape (after drying), there wasan ugly ridge where thetape and the varnish met that I can't get rid of. Idon't want to sand itdown, because that might muck up the polish/blueingon the ferrule. How do others handle this? bill hoy BTW, I finished machining my first set of ferruleslast night. Took meweeks to teach myself how to do it, and about 3 feetof #13 tubing. But Isure am proud... __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Feb 19 15:49:54 2002 g1JLnr812032 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:49:53 - ([209.179.148.169] helo=computer) id 16dI8v-0003DD-00; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:49:46 -0800 , "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question Jeff, Maybe you should try Varathane 900 on those wraps. Dries quickly, looksnice Adam Get it at HD or Lowes----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question This is embarrassing, but I have gotten myself into a sticky situation-literally and figuratively. I was experimenting with Tung oil and liked itso much that I finished several blanks with it. Now, what varnish should Iuse on the wraps? Did some test wraps with Varmor R-10 over 10 welldriedcoats of Tung Oil, and the R-10 does not seem to be sticking to anything,and it is clearly not drying properly. This probably falls under thecategory of "what did you think was going to happen" but I am at a loss asto what wrap varnish would be appropriate for this type of finish. And of course, the rod in question needs to go to a Pheasants Foreverbanquet next Saturday, so I am rather anxious to get the wraps finished intime. Well, desperate would probably be closer to the truth. I am open to suggestions. Very open. Jeff Schaeffer from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Tue Feb 19 15:59:38 2002 g1JLxb812880 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:59:37 -0600 g1JM2ds27861; ,"rod 'akers" Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question 100% raw tung oil won't ever dry without you rub it in hard and generateenough heat to cause it to change physically. Maybe you could cook it on inan oven. You might try going over it lightly with spar containing driers.Other-wise, wipe it down with mineral spirits and try something else. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tung Oil finish question oh! the wraps! i guess my joke doesn't apply then. geein my experience if varnish doesn't dry in hours itdries in days. hopefully someone will have a secrettidbit. let me know what you do. i cut my varnish forwraps about 20 to 25% with mineral spirits. i have hadrods not dry but yet to have the problem with wraps. ihave this to look forward to i suppose. timothy--- Jeff Schaeffer wrote: The finish on the blank seems fine, it is anything Itry to put on the wrapsthat is not sticking. Jeff ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Feb 19 17:05:34 2002 g1JN5Y816631 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:05:34 - Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Hal, Ed, Ian And others,Let's see if I can answer all of this in one shot:1. AdSubtract information http://www.adsubtract.com/ easier for you to gototheir site and read what it will do than to tell you here. AdSubtract willnot stop you from getting cookies, you need cookies to interface with sites,but it will give you complete control over them and not allow them to sendinformation back without your permission. NFI2. How do I locate and erase "cookies"?:Right click your Browser, click Properties, click Settings, click ViewFiles. All of the cookies & junk are now displayed, if you haven't done thisbefore it may take some time to display them all. Click Edit, click SelectAll, click File, click Delete. It will ask you if you want to delete thesefiles, say yes. GONE.If you have never done this, you will be amazed the amount of storage thathas been used up on your hard drive. Don't worry about it, erase them all,there is nothing there you really need. Most of the stuff is web pages andpicture on pages you have visited so in case, if you ever do go back to thatpage it will load faster.Have any other questions, give me a shout. Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: junk mail thread, outlook help off topic Don,Where did you find AdSubtract? I use AdAware to remove those cookiesafter the fact, but I would love to keep them off in the first place.Thanks, Hal from luu_andrew@hotmail.com Tue Feb 19 21:00:15 2002 g1K30E828223 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:00:14 - Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:00:05 -0800 Wed, 20 Feb 2002 03:00:05 GMT Subject: Would you like a Lie-nielsen 9 1/2 and 212 planes? FILETIME=[B2DE6720:01C1B9BA] Hello, It looks like I am going to throw in the towel on rod building, just doesn't have time anymore once you are in grad school. That said, I have many rod building tools that I like to sell. I figure that I'll let you have a crack at it before I put it on Ebay. Please contact me off the list if you are interested, luu_andrew@hotmail.com. I am in Northern Virginia. Please look at the list below. Thanks. Andrew. 1 Stanley 9 1/2 by Lie-Nielsen with rod maker's groove pristine, unused, even the box is brand new!!!http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=9- 1/2&cart=1014170902185587 1 Stanley #212 by Lie-Nielsen scraper plane in the same pristine condition, actually, I took it out once in a while and admire it in my hand, and then put it back in the box. So, i'll have my finger prints on it, nothing else!!http://www.lie- nielsen.com/tool.html?id=212B&cart=1014170902185587 1 final form home made, very used 1 wooden rough form, home made, very used 1 oven very used 1 Final form from Wagner bought 3 years ago, unused, still in it PCV tube. 1 Metal roughning form from Colorado Bootstrap 3 years old, unused. 1 splicing block bought from Jon Linvett 3 years ago, used once. 19 culms of Tokin bamboo bought from Christ Bogart , check splitted, dusty. _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from briansr@point-net.com Tue Feb 19 21:29:09 2002 g1K3T8829331 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:29:09 - for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:03:08 -0500 Subject: Re:Bills Hi folkshad problems with a hacker today :-((.Unwittingly, Caught the *&^% halvewaythrough,Everything OK nowBill Clinton got $200,000 NOT 50,000for his speech and people paid between5000 and 110,000(yep that's right0 for the "privilege"Good point about itwas ,it was a fundraising for two children's hospital here in Mtl.CheersBrianPS: sorry, USA ,we sent him back [:-)] from tedknott@cogeco.ca Tue Feb 19 22:17:37 2002 g1K4Hb802294 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:17:37 - for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:17:29 - Subject: Thread Colour for Leonard Rod I have received an 8' 0", 2 piece, Leonard "Letort" model for repair andrefinish. The wraps are faded with age and a few owner-varnish touch- ups,so its hard to tell the original colour of the wraps. I have been told thatPearsall's amber for the main wraps, and olive green for the trim wraps isa correct match. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this? from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 19 22:57:35 2002 g1K4vZ804066 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:57:35 - Subject: Re: Thread Colour for Leonard Rod from what I've come across in a few Leonards, the Pearsal's gold (okay, amber) and the light olive will do the trick. Sometimes the olive will look grey until you look on the underside of the peeled off wrap. Rob Hoffhines from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Wed Feb 20 04:45:54 2002 g1KAjr809935 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 04:45:53 - Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:47:28 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Thread Colour for Leonard Rod Ted the Pearsalls "Antique Gold" is the color you are talking about. Also thePearsalls "Classic Chestnut" is a orangish brown color, there is a picture of iton the agate stripper shown on my web page. http.nsflyrods.tripod.caLet me know if you need any of this thread right away, I have lots of bothcolors in stock, I believe I have a spool or two of the light olive as well,Shawn Ted wrote: I have received an 8' 0", 2 piece, Leonard "Letort" model for repair andrefinish. The wraps are faded with age and a few owner-varnish touch- ups,so its hard to tell the original colour of the wraps. I have been told thatPearsall's amber for the main wraps, and olive green for the trim wraps isa correct match. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this? from jerryy@webtv.net Wed Feb 20 07:11:28 2002 g1KDBR811514 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:11:27 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:11:27 - 2114.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA10339; ETAsAhQel4byyMuhmr/3TlPwn9YLUx1jpAIUJuGAO+0KL9uk4QfTtZMjub3NFSA= Subject: Russian Olive wood The recent ice storms had a friend of mine taking out six russian olivetrees. Wood is a dark brown and the base of the trees were full ofsmall burls. Some figure to the wood. Know that olive wood is used ineurope, but I don't have any idea if it is the same type of olive.Anybody used this wood? TIA Jerry Young from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Feb 20 09:02:25 2002 g1KF2O815168 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:02:25 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: [Fwd: Re: How about this.] I think the list will be interested in Geert's work. -------- Original Message --------Subject: Re: How about this. Hi,I heve never fished them or thrown them on water? Just lawncasted them. I dressedthem with linseed oil and varnish and they throw well. I weigh the first 30' todetermine the line weight with a jewelers scale. I just received a big game linewhich is about a #4 as it is. To give the lines more weight, I introduce anotherpiece of line into the main line. With a blunt needle, it is easy to slide it inthe line as it is a hollow cylinder. Thus different line weights and tapers can bemade.Geert Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from harms1@pa.net Wed Feb 20 09:34:37 2002 g1KFYa817023 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:34:36 - Subject: Re: Russian Olive wood Jerry, I don't know anything about Russian Olive except that the birds love theberries. But if the burl looks good, use it. Hell, folks have usedeverything under the sun at one time or another. It's all good if it looksgood. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Russian Olive wood The recent ice storms had a friend of mine taking out six russian olivetrees. Wood is a dark brown and the base of the trees were full ofsmall burls. Some figure to the wood. Know that olive wood is used ineurope, but I don't have any idea if it is the same type of olive.Anybody used this wood? TIA Jerry Young from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Feb 20 10:20:19 2002 g1KGKI819445 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:20:18 - (authenticated) for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:21:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Russian Olive wood Bill, I shared this with Jerry off-list, but I suppose I should share it witheveryone. There's a picture of an olive insert I used a coupla years ago onmysite at: http://www.canerods.com/photos/gallery/olive.jpg The wood turns like butter, and has a wonderful smell as you are workingwith it. I only had three blanks, and successfully made inserts from two. Thethird (best looking one, of course) blew out as I was drilling it. I'd love toget a little more olive burl. Just seems right for a minister to use olivewood in his rods, since olive has strong Biblical connotations. Harry WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I don't know anything about Russian Olive except that the birds love theberries. But if the burl looks good, use it. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Feb 20 10:23:52 2002 g1KGNo819790 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:23:51 - for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:23:18 - MAILINID71-0220112318; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:23:18 -0500 Subject: Staining Bamboo Hi List, Has anyone been successful staining bamboo blanks? If so, how was it done,and what products did you use. I was going to flame this rod black, butchickened out thinking that my Home Depot variety torch was not hotenough. I would like to have the rod look like black walnut when done, but notsure how to get there. Thanks, Kyle from Jkvseafood@aol.com Wed Feb 20 10:38:02 2002 g1KGc1820754 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:38:02 - Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo you can expose the rod to the solution for making picture negatives. i can't remember exactly but someone on the list will know, regards john from dnorl@qwest.net Wed Feb 20 10:41:52 2002 g1KGfp821113 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:41:51 - (63.228.47.99) Subject: Re: Russian Olive wood Iv'e used it for grips on a handgun. It is very hard wood and looks a lotlike walnut. Seems funny that a "weed tree should have neat wood like that."Dave Norling-----Original Message----- Subject: Russian Olive wood The recent ice storms had a friend of mine taking out six russian olivetrees. Wood is a dark brown and the base of the trees were full ofsmall burls. Some figure to the wood. Know that olive wood is used ineurope, but I don't have any idea if it is the same type of olive.Anybody used this wood? TIA Jerry Young from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Feb 20 10:42:53 2002 g1KGgo821290 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:42:50 - (authenticated) Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:44:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Kyle, It can be done, but I wouldn't recommend it. Just finish this one out as itis, and make the next one dark, imo. Should you choose to stain it, be aware that oil based stains are not thebest choice. They don't penetrate very well. Seems like someone mentionedusing aniline dyes with good results, but I have no experience with that. Ammonia toning can produce a deep walnut color, but will not have themottled look offlaming. Of course, neither will a stain.... Harry KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Has anyone been successful staining bamboo blanks? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 20 10:53:05 2002 g1KGr4822183 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:53:04 - -bs Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Kyle, I've tried ordinary wood stains & analine wood dyes, but I've had bettersuccess using Pantone (Tria) markers. You will need a color muchdarker than you think at first, because bamboo doesn't really wantto absorb the ink. After coloring the blank, let it dry then "go at it"with alcohol on a rag to even up the color. Most of the color willcome off on the rag. You then repeat the whole process until itsdark enough. There really isn't too much to go wrong; the colormoves fairly well with the rag. Do this late in the process, just before you wrap the guides and/orvarnish, because any final sanding or steel-wooling will remove morestain and leave lighter spots. Once you've found a color you like, you can buy the Pantone inksin 4oz bottles, if you look on the web. Maybe that would be usefulonce you have a color you like.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi List, Has anyone been successful staining bamboo blanks? If so, how was itdone, and what products did you use. I was going to flame this rod black, butchickened out thinking that my Home Depot variety torch was not hotenough. I would like to have the rod look like black walnut when done, but notsure how to get there. Thanks, Kyle from GBuckley@aapg.org Wed Feb 20 11:04:11 2002 g1KH4B822908 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:04:11 - 20 Feb 02 11:08:56 -0600 -0600 20 Feb 02 11:07:34 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo How did Wayne C. go about purple'ing the rod for his daughter? Was it thePantone marker route or did he do something else? Gerald from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb 20 11:21:20 2002 g1KHLJ824172 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:21:19 - id 16daQd-0004VU-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:21:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo He used the Pantone marker. He thought about using potassiumpermanganate but settled on the marker. I tried the potassiumpermanganate. Produces a dirty brown. Looked like mud. The best way I'vefound is using analine dye. The kind that Woodcraft sells that can be madeup using alcohol. Get a section on PVC pipe long enough for the strips andput the strips in and add the alcohol/dye mixture and let sit overnight ormake a chamber using galvanized pipe and put about 100 psi and dye it inabout 5 minutes. This dyes it all the way through. No backing out andsanding it off. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com GBuckley@aapg.org wrote: How did Wayne C. go about purple'ing the rod for his daughter? Was it the Pantone marker route or did he do something else? Gerald from GBuckley@aapg.org Wed Feb 20 11:29:54 2002 g1KHTr824857 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:29:53 - 20 Feb 02 11:34:38 -0600 -0600 20 Feb 02 11:33:20 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo So, this alcohol/dye process is done prior to glue-up or after? Thanks, Gerald from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Feb 20 13:03:45 2002 g1KJ3i828708 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:03:44 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo All, Has anyone tried Potassium Dichromate? We used to use this onmahogany, but it works on many woods. It interacts with the tannic acid in the wood and thus creates a permanent chemical change, not just a covering with pigment, like so many stains. We used to make a saturated solution, then use half to get 50%, 25%, 12.5%, etc. Has anyone any results with Potassium dichromate? Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi List, Has anyone been successful staining bamboo blanks? If so, how was itdone, and what products did you use. I was going to flame this rod black, butchickened out thinking that my Home Depot variety torch was not hotenough. I would like to have the rod look like black walnut when done, but notsure how to get there. Thanks, Kyle . -- > from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Wed Feb 20 13:04:03 2002 Received: g1KJ43828740 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127- paul.blakley@ntlworld.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X- GBuckley@aapg.org, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: StainingBamboo References:Content- owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN The only sure way of stainingBamboo I know of is with Potassium of Permanganate Solution ! Some peoplesay it stains with a purple tinge......not quite true......the colour is a browntone effect. You can get potassium permanganate from any Chemists (Pharmacy ) and it is generally used for the treatment of foot disorders( asin Chiropody ). It is also extremely cheap........the down side is it will stainyour hands like you are a 100 a day smoker so take care with thestuff............Paul k5vkq@ix.netcom.com wrote: He used the Pantone marker. He thought about using potassiumpermanganate but settled on the marker. I tried the potassiumpermanganate. Produces a dirty brown. Looked like mud. The best way I'vefound is using analine dye. The kind that Woodcraft sells that can be madeup using alcohol. Get a section on PVC pipe long enough for the strips andput the strips in and add the alcohol/dye mixture and let sit overnight ormake a chamber using galvanized pipe and put about 100 psi and dye it inabout 5 minutes. This dyes it all the way through. No backing out andsanding it off. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com GBuckley@aapg.org wrote: How did Wayne C. go about purple'ing the rod for his daughter? Was it the Pantone marker route or did he do something else? Gerald from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Feb 20 13:07:25 2002 g1KJ7O829240 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:07:24 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Staining Bamboo Paul, You might mention that it is not advisable to use potassiumpermanganate mixed with glycerine, although I'm sure the terrorist's handbook approves of it.:)Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.co paul.blakley wrote: The only sure way of staining Bamboo I know of is with Potassium ofPermanganate Solution !Some people say it stains with a purple tinge......not quitetrue......the colour is a brown tone effect.You can get potassium permanganate from any Chemists ( Pharmacy ) anditis generally used for the treatment of foot disorders( as in Chiropody).It is also extremely cheap........the down side is it will stain yourhands like you are a 100 a day smoker so take care with thestuff............Paul m/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Feb 20 13:07:48 2002 g1KJ7l829341 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:07:48 - for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:07:34 - 0220140734; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:07:34 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Staining Bamboo 010203040506" ------_Part_3c73f3f6-0122-25d-010203040506 Bob gave me permission to post this off list reply... ------_Part_3c73f3f6-0122-25d-010203040506 Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:04:00 -0500 MAILRELAYINYB110-0220130340; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:03:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo You may want to find a quart of Watco Danish Oil. Danish Oil is similar totung oil, but it's not nearly as oily. The phenolic resins get into (ratherthan on) the fiber and harden, so it may change the action of the rod alittle, but I doubt it. I have used it to seal blanks before I lettered anything or startedwrapping. I have planned to use five or six coats as a final finish, buthaven't got around to that yet (got to use up this $60 a gal. varnishfirst). I have used the Danish Oil on furniture that I made, and it gives abeautiful hand rubbed finish. And, I do mean hand rubbed........palm down,and rub 'til it gets too hot. You can get the Watco Danish Oil in clear, teak or walnut. You can controlthe tone of walnut by the length of time you leave it on before wiping itoff, and by the number of coats. If you have some scrap strips or blank,you may want to test it. When I used it to seal rods, I had no problem when the rod was varnished. Ican't say that this would be the case if many coats were applied beforevarnishing. The varnish I use is Behlens (Masters) Water White RestorationVarnish. One of my next projects (when the spirit moves me) is to soak my strips inDanish Oil. Since it gets into rather than on to the fibers, and hardens,this will be a poor mans attempt at impregnation. Wes Jordan did it withphenolic resins and pressure.........I would stick to heat treating to driveout any lingering moisture. After all, I'm not Wes Jordan. Good luck...... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Staining Bamboo Hi List, Has anyone been successful staining bamboo blanks? If so, how was it done, and what products did you use. I was going to flame this rod black,but chickened out thinking that my Home Depot variety torch was not hotenough. I would like to have the rod look like black walnut when done, butnot sure how to get there. Thanks, Kyle ------_Part_3c73f3f6-0122-25d-010203040506-- from bhoy551@earthlink.net Wed Feb 20 13:23:39 2002 g1KJNc800486 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:23:38 - Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:23:36 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Staining Bamboo FILETIME=[17FA32E0:01C1BA44] Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:17:44 -0500 From: Bill Hoy Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Reed, Potassium dichromate is photo-sensitive. It hardens organic material it is mixed with on exposure to UV light. It creates a yellowish stain, which can be removed chemically. It's the active chemical used to make gum prints around the turn of the century. Mixed with gum arabic, and pigment, it hardens any gum exposed to UV. You can wash away the unhardened gum, leaving the pigmented image behind. I've heard it's used by gunmakers to stain maple gunstocks to achieve that rich red/brown, and I've considered using it on reel seat fillers. I have no idea what effect it would have on cane, but if exposed to UV, it might toughen up the outer layers. I still have some ammonium dichromate (its more reactive cousin) left over from my artsy photo days. Maybe an experiment is in order. Bill At 02:07 PM 2/20/2002 -0500, you wrote: All,Has anyone tried Potassium Dichromate? We used to use this on mahogany, but it works on many woods. It interacts with the tannic acid in the wood and thus creates a permanent chemical change, not just a covering with pigment, like so many stains. We used to make a saturated solution, then use half to get 50%, 25%, 12.5%, etc.Has anyone any results with Potassium dichromate? Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi List,Has anyone been successful staining bamboo blanks? If so, how was it done, and what products did you use. I was going to flame this rod black, but chickened out thinking that my Home Depot variety torch was not hot enough. I would like to have the rod look like black walnut when done, but not sure how to get there.Thanks,Kyle . -- from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Feb 20 13:42:39 2002 g1KJgc801386 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:42:38 - id ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:35:32 -0500 id D56AMKYS; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:35:29 -0500 Subject: Ralph Moon, Bret Reiter & Brian Creek (among others) All, I just got off the phone with Ralph Moon. He and I have been "talking"via email about an issue not related to rodmaking. What a wonderful guyto talk to. Someone once referred to him as one of the grand old (nooffense meant) men of the craft. Now I know why. I have to take some time to thank Bret and Brian as well. These guysare helping me get back into building rods and I am very thankful forthe time they've spent (and will spend) holding my hand through thisprocess. Thanks also go to Don Schneider for his article about buildingwooden planing forms (as well as the tools used to build them). I'm sure that I've left many out that I've learned something from,either through the list or through the process of building the tipsarchive. I thank each and every person that has helped me and that isout here on the list helping to keep this craft moving along. As my pastor would say, "This is REALLY cool." If he were part of thelist, he'd be saying, "This is a REALLY cool place to be."-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from GBuckley@aapg.org Wed Feb 20 13:48:29 2002 Received: from 20 Feb 02 13:53:14 -0600 Received: from spooler by aapg.org (Mercury/32v3.30); 20 Feb 02 13:52:11 -0600 Received: from [192.168.100.69] MG001B50; 20 Feb 02 13:52:09 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook- Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:47:35 - 0600 Subject: Out of print rod books? From: Gerald Buckley GBuckley@aapg.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Doesany know if there is any effort under way to 'preserve' old out of print rodmaking books by digitizing them to something like PDF format? The reason Iask is my HP Wells "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle" book is a helpful read and ahoot. Wonder if people would be willing to even read some of the old books inthis format... Any value insofar as preservation? Thoughts? Gerald >Fromtgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Wed Feb 20 14:12:37 2002 Received: from g1KKCa803139 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:00:41 -0500 Message- , rod Subject: RE: Out 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN It's a good idea (as long ascopyright isn't at stake, of course) to preserve these books; digitizing wouldbe a great way to preserve images and illustrations as well for those of uswho do not have the pleasure of owning original editions and printings ofHenshall, Holden, or Wells (which edition, by the way? If memory serves, thesecond edition has more on split cane rods than the first). All have been, orstill are, available in reprint form, which is convenient, and for which we canthank the publishers who offer these things to us. Again, if memory serves,the Wells book has been available from Derrydale Press in theirFlyfisherman's Gold series--but it'd be good to have e-library of Frazier,Lambuth, etc. Of course, I reveal in this that I am as much a bibliophile as acane-maniac. The old books offer their own good way to get rid of all thatextra money . . . . Wouldn't matter to some; I once gave an original of Wells'second edition--I agree, it's an amusing read--to a rodmaker (not of this list)as a way of saying thanks for a day on the stream. He shrugged, said he hadthe reprint, which "has the same information, right?" True enough. Groan.Tom > from aport@si.rr.com Wed Feb 20 14:17:04 2002 Received: from From: "arthur port" References:Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Gerald, What's thedifference what format? You can always print 'em out and read 'em THATway, no? As long as you're not fooling with copyright infringement, it soundslike a great way to handle it. Reed, care to comment? I recall you had somego-rounds on that topic a while back, didn't you? Art >FromGBuckley@aapg.org Wed Feb 20 14:24:09 2002 Received: from 20 Feb 02 14:28:54 -0600 Received: from spooler by aapg.org (Mercury/32v3.30); 20 Feb 02 14:27:36 -0600 Received: from [192.168.100.69] MG001B91; 20 Feb 02 14:27:24 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook- Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:22:50 - 0600 Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? From: Gerald Buckley rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Agreed re. copyrights.Working for a scientific publishing house... I'm sensitive to that one. I have amsg in with Kim at Derrydale right now. I love the books! They're just hard ashen's teeth to get a hold of. But, how else can I determine if I REALLY wantto shell out the big bugs for that rare edition... know what I mean? Now thatwe're accustomed to the daily dialogue, watching Glenn Brackett via videostream, and hopping over to so-and-so's website for hints or peeks atcomponents... it just seems like a great way to round out the experience forthose who have the inclination to utilize the computer and networks at theirdisposal. If I get the go ahead from Derrydale... I'll do Wells' book ASAP. Isuspect they have no say on the edition in question though as the copyrighthas surely run it's lifetime by now. Anyone have any other titles they'd like tosee this way? Gerald > from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Feb 20 14:48:322002 Received: from umh-msxproto1.umh.edu (UMH-MSXPROTO1.umh.edu 20 Feb 2002 14:48:24 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:message X- Exchange V6.0.5762.3 Thread-Topic: Phillipson tapers Thread- Index:AcG0/cvT2vPpBCDtEda4IgBglOouXwFUK9Dg From: "Kling, Barry W." X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2002 KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This Phillipson PowerPakt 8.5' 3-piece rod that works beautifully for me with aDT5 line. I just made my own rod using essentially this taper minus a varnishcorrection of 0.004", and it has the same qualities as the original. I just love but I went back and re-measured, while also getting the guide placement. I've varnished rod, with measurements taken over the varnish. The varnish is notespecially thick. It looks like it was ammonia toned and glued with resorcinol.It is not impregnated. Wrapped with bright yellow nylon with black tipping. A 0.099 10 0.112 15 0.135 20 0.151 25 0.154 30 0.160 32 3/8, aboveferrule wrap 0.162 35 estimated 0.177 36, below ferrule wrap 0.179 400.195 45 0.212 50 0.226 55 0.242 60 0.241 65 0.243 66 3/8, aboveferrule wrap 0.247 70, just below ferrule wrap 0.270 75 0.289 80 0.299 850.314 90 0.339 91 1/8, above wrap at winding chk 0.366 91 5/8 - cork end of tiptop loop: 5 3/8 11 1/2 18 25 1/4 32 1/2 (at top end of ferrule)36 1/4 (at bottom end of ferrule) 44 1/4 52 1/4 62 7/8 Stripping guide at of the archives, I can't find any tapers for Phillipson 8.5 rods. (5 or 6wts). Phillipsontapers 0DocumentEmail post I sent late last year, with measurements from a Phillipson = PowerPakt8.5’ 3-piece rod that works beautifully for me with a DT5 line. I justmade = my own rod using essentially this taper minus a varnish correction of= 0.004”, and it has the same qualities as the original. I just love the went back and re-measured, while = also getting the guide placement.I’ve had a couple of requests so = I’ll just repost the whole measurements taken over the varnish. The = varnish is not especially thick.It looks like it was ammonia toned and glued with resorcinol. It is notimpregnated. Wrapped with bright yellow nylon with = black tipping. A really 91 5/8 – cork =begins 0.375?= Guideplacement, inches from end of tiptop loop: 5 =3/8 11 =1/2 18 25 =1/4 32 1/2 =(at topend of ferrule) 36 1/4 =(atbottom end of ferrule) 44 =1/4 52 =1/4 62 =7/8 Stripping=guideat 72 5/8 Barry =Kling -----OriginalMessage-----From: Tom Hardy Sent: Wednesday,February =13, 20028:16 PM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Phillipson =tapers After a search of the archives, I can't find any tapers forPhillipson 8.5rods. (5 or 6wts). Anyone have any they would be willing to =share? Thanks,Tom Hardy from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Feb 20 15:05:04 2002 g1KL53806491 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:05:03 - Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? I agree; everyone should have the opportunity to read Wells. -Doug At 01:47 PM 2/20/2002 -0600, Gerald Buckley wrote: Does any know if there is any effort under way to 'preserve' old out ofprint rod making books by digitizing them to something like PDF format? The reason I ask is my HP Wells "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle" book is a helpfulread and a hoot. Wonder if people would be willing to even read some of theold books in this format... Any value insofar as preservation? Thoughts? Gerald Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from rextutor@yahoo.com Wed Feb 20 15:10:52 2002 g1KLAp807001 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:10:51 - 20 Feb 2002 13:10:51 PST Subject: RE: Out of print rod books? ,rod Could you name these author's books ?I know Holden wrote Idyl of the Split Bamboo , GeorgeP. that is , did he write otherS/ different Holden ? And Fly- Rod & Fly-Tackle Hardcover, by Henry Wells, right ? How about Frazier, Lambuth and Henshall ? I love the books , too . --- "Goodmann, Tom" wrote: It's a good idea (as long as copyright isn't atstake, of course) topreserve these books; digitizing would be a greatway to preserve images andillustrations as well for those of us who do nothave the pleasure of owningoriginal editions and printings of Henshall, Holden,or Wells (whichedition, by the way? If memory serves, the secondedition has more on splitcane rods than the first). All have been, or stillare, available inreprint form, which is convenient, and for which wecan thank the publisherswho offer these things to us. Again, if memoryserves, the Wells book hasbeen available from Derrydale Press in theirFlyfisherman's Gold series--butit'd be good to have e-library of Frazier, Lambuth,etc. Of course, I reveal in this that I am as much abibliophile as acane-maniac. The old books offer their own good wayto get rid of all thatextra money . . . . Wouldn't matter to some; I oncegave an original ofWells' second edition--I agree, it's an amusingread--to a rodmaker (not ofthis list) as a way of saying thanks for a day onthe stream. He shrugged,said he had the reprint, which "has the sameinformation, right?" Trueenough. Groan. Tom __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Wed Feb 20 15:20:34 2002 g1KLKX807804 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:20:33 - id ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:08:34 -0500 Subject: RE: Out of print rod books? Perry D. Frazier, whose book went through more than one edition, andLetcherLambuth both titled their books *The Angler's Workshop*-- though they arevery different from one another. Henshall's *The Book of the Black Bass* is a sort of American fishingclassic; he wrote a follow-up volume too--I just mention not as a source forrodmakers, though he talks about tackle, especially about reels, but for its"old - time" flavor of 19th-century fishing. Halford discusses tackle here and there too in his always well- illustratedbooks on dry fly fishing; I chanced last year across a copy of his last,*The Dry Fly Man's Handbook*. The "master list" of relevant titles may be found at: http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/bookshelf.html Tom from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Wed Feb 20 15:46:02 2002 g1KLk1809367 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:46:01 - Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:45:54 -0600content-class: urn:content- classes:messageSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Thread-Topic: ferrules: to refinish or to restore?Thread-Index: AcG2IxCfxT8/GyIOEda4IgBglOouXwENHuPA FILETIME=[F93DC2E0:01C1BA57] g1KLk2809368 Bill - I agree with your main point, but to include Phillipson and Granger in the list isalso more than a little goofy. Not because of their value to collectors, butbecause they made many great rods. For casting and for playing fish, that is. Barry -----Original Message----- RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Bob, I agree entirely. This mania for preserving the "collectors value" of anold Heddon, South Bend, Granger, Phillipson, H-I, etc. all seems prettygoofy to me. If a guy is interested in nothing but collecting and trading,then I suppose it's a different matter. But if you're interested infly-fishing, then why not turn these sow's ears into silk purses? The value of these production rods is never so great, anyhow, that one darenot change anything. On the contrary, most of those old rods looked prettyterrible right out of the box. Any one of us could build a better (andbetter-looking) rod without even half trying. So, what's the big deal? "Vanishing Scenes of Americana?" Gimme a break!Those old rods are a dime a dozen. Some were pretty good, but mostweren't.The preservationist societies and museums have already saved about all ofthem that need to be saved, and the collectors only want to trade inuntouched, original junk. As for fishing, well, go ahead and dress one ofthe old rods up if you feel like it. Otherwise, go out to your shop,duplicate an old taper (if you're fond of one of them) and fish a rod that'sboth well made and good looking. Let the games begin... . Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Tom,Just between you and I... if your gonna use it to fish, which is what it was originally intended for, then what difference does it make if you putbetter components on what "MIGHT" be a $200 rod to make it a better rod.Fix it up like it should have been in the first place, and make a goodfishing rod out of it... JMHO Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Goodmann, Tom" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:57 PMSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at someearlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinctionbetween refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone who enjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparable components of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, I wouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless it were itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to stray too far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Wed Feb 20 15:57:18 2002 g1KLvH810098 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:57:17 - id ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:45:22 -0500 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: refinish or restore? Yep; I agree with Barry. It's just MHO of course, but I draw a clear linein my preferences between rods by Montague, South Bend, andHorrocks-Ibbotson-- with a few exceptions from each--and those by Heddon,Granger, and Phillipson. I don't equate the latter production makers withthe master individual makers, no, and have no basis for an informed opinionon any such comparison. But I sure like a lot of the rods I have fished byH, G, and P, particularly the Grangers, and would go to greater lengths torestore one--and then I'd fish it, as I never could do with $10,000 Gillum.But of course it's a subjective matter. Tom from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Wed Feb 20 16:56:32 2002 g1KMuV813147 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:56:31 - g1KMxbs01468; Subject: Re: Ralph Moon, Bret Reiter & Brian Creek (among others) Todd, You're very welcome. Now, you have to help somebody next time.There's a ripple effect to this. Somebody helps you, you help somebodyelse, they help somebody else, and pretty soon there is no one left to buyplastic rods cause we're all building our own. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ralph Moon, Bret Reiter & Brian Creek (among others) All, I just got off the phone with Ralph Moon. He and I have been "talking"via email about an issue not related to rodmaking. What a wonderful guyto talk to. Someone once referred to him as one of the grand old (nooffense meant) men of the craft. Now I know why. I have to take some time to thank Bret and Brian as well. These guysare helping me get back into building rods and I am very thankful forthe time they've spent (and will spend) holding my hand through thisprocess. Thanks also go to Don Schneider for his article about buildingwooden planing forms (as well as the tools used to build them). I'm sure that I've left many out that I've learned something from,either through the list or through the process of building the tipsarchive. I thank each and every person that has helped me and that isout here on the list helping to keep this craft moving along. As my pastor would say, "This is REALLY cool." If he were part of thelist, he'd be saying, "This is a REALLY cool place to be."--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from Grnmtrds@aol.com Wed Feb 20 18:06:08 2002 g1L067816391 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:06:08 - for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:05:59 - Subject: books All, If any of you know Farrow Allen, used to write for fly fish America, I understand from a mutual friend, that he is selling out his book collection. I know at one time he had some great old books on building bamboo rods and the builders themselves. Not only that but books on fishing in general. I do know that he personally had one fine collection. I don't have his address but I can probably come up with it in a day or two. If someone wanted to they could probably get a hold of Fly Fish America people and they would be able to tell you. I also have the usual disclaimer ----NO FINANCIAL GAINS..... Jim from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Feb 20 19:25:58 2002 g1L1Pv818498 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:25:57 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16dhzc-0005uE-00 for RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:25:53 -0500 Subject: Re: refinish or restore? Tom:I agree, my sentiments exactomundo.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: refinish or restore? Yep; I agree with Barry. It's just MHO of course, but I draw a clear linein my preferences between rods by Montague, South Bend, andHorrocks-Ibbotson-- with a few exceptions from each--and those by Heddon,Granger, and Phillipson. I don't equate the latter production makers withthe master individual makers, no, and have no basis for an informed opinion on any such comparison. But I sure like a lot of the rods I have fished by H, G, and P, particularly the Grangers, and would go to greater lengths torestore one--and then I'd fish it, as I never could do with $10,000 Gillum. But of course it's a subjective matter. Tom from bob@downandacross.com Wed Feb 20 20:37:18 2002 g1L2bH824849 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:37:18 - ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:37:11 -0500 Subject: Rods for Sale, if not interested PLEASE DELETE Hi Guys:I have just listed some rods on my website for sale. I know that many of youhave asked for the tapers from these, and that some of you really like theDegere rods. I am forced to sell these to get the new mill up and runningand pay some long due bills. Loving the handplaning, but man are my handstired! I will ship and insure the rods at no extra cost.Sorry for the intrusion, but a few of these are really good rods, and Iwould prefer to keep them in good hands.Thanks,Bobhttp://www.downandacross.com from bob@downandacross.com Wed Feb 20 21:31:05 2002 g1L3V4826047 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:31:04 - Wed,20 Feb 2002 22:30:59 -0500 Subject: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Guys, some people are having trouble with the site. I am not sure what isgoing on, I can access it and I have checked to see that I am not looking ata cached page. Here is a direct link.http://www.downandacross.com/html/available_rods.htmlSorry. I could send a list to anyone who cannot get it.Bob ps. I apologize for the bandwith, I probably was out of line the first time,but this is ridiculous! from harms1@pa.net Wed Feb 20 21:38:24 2002 g1L3cN826370 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:38:23 - Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Barry, A few of these tapers were very nice, indeed, but none of the rods, overall,was what I would call "great." Certainly they were nothing to get excitedabout as far a preserving their "collector's value" is concerned. They cannever be regarded as much of an investment for the future, though they will,no doubt, hold their value. These are rods that didn't cost much when they were made, and they don'tcost much now. So one can feel comfortable about refinishing, re- ferruling,re-griping, re-wrapping and so on without worrying about preservingoriginality or market value. If one does careful and tasteful work, theserods will continue to fish well (and they will, at long last, look nice aswell). If a person just likes the IDEA of retestoring to original condition, wellthen, ok. That's different. But if someone thinks that he has a treasure(yes, even in a Phillipson or a Granger) that simply MUST be preserved, he'sprobably been smokin' his socks. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Bill - I agree with your main point, but to include Phillipson and Granger in the list is also more than a little goofy. Not because of their value tocollectors, but because they made many great rods. For casting and forplaying fish, that is. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 7:12 AM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Bob, I agree entirely. This mania for preserving the "collectors value" of anold Heddon, South Bend, Granger, Phillipson, H-I, etc. all seems prettygoofy to me. If a guy is interested in nothing but collecting and trading, then I suppose it's a different matter. But if you're interested infly-fishing, then why not turn these sow's ears into silk purses? The value of these production rods is never so great, anyhow, that one dare not change anything. On the contrary, most of those old rods looked pretty terrible right out of the box. Any one of us could build a better (andbetter- looking) rod without even half trying. So, what's the big deal? "Vanishing Scenes of Americana?" Gimme a break! Those old rods are a dime a dozen. Some were pretty good, but most weren't. The preservationist societies and museums have already saved about all ofthem that need to be saved, and the collectors only want to trade inuntouched, original junk. As for fishing, well, go ahead and dress one ofthe old rods up if you feel like it. Otherwise, go out to your shop,duplicate an old taper (if you're fond of one of them) and fish a rod that's both well made and good looking. Let the games begin... . Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:23 AMSubject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Tom,Just between you and I... if your gonna use it to fish, which is what it was originally intended for, then what difference does it make if you put better components on what "MIGHT" be a $200 rod to make it a betterrod.Fix it up like it should have been in the first place, and make a goodfishing rod out of it... JMHO Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Goodmann, Tom" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:57 PMSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at some earlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinction between refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone who enjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparable components of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, I wouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless it were itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to stray too far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from SBDunn@aol.com Wed Feb 20 22:23:20 2002 g1L4NJ827562 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:23:19 - Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? Holden wrote at least three fishing books. "The Idyl of the Split Bamboo" in 1920, "Streamcraft - an Angling Manual" in 1919. My 1927 edition of "Streamcraft" mentions the author's other works. "Angling: Recollectionsand Practice" is listed as one of his books, though I have never seen or heard of it except here. the Split Bamboo". I lost out on three or four of them on ebay -- each time dropping out of the bidding between $250 and $300. Then one day I saw oneon Yahoo's auction and got it for about $50.00. When I got it, I was surprised to see that it had a few extras the seller hadn't mentioned -- it has the dust jacket (I had never even seen one before) and it was autographed by Holden - twice. The seller was so pleased to get that price that she unexpectedly paid the shipping. Probably my best Internet auction buy ever. Regards, Steve. from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Wed Feb 20 22:29:20 2002 g1L4TK827894 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:29:20 - id ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:17:24 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Out of print rod books? Now, a find like that--autographed twice by Holden!--dustjacket intact;that's a good day. Great find. I paid 3 bucks last summer along a highwayin northern Wisconsin for a first novel, dustjacket and all, by a young guyin coat and tie called "John Kerouac"; have seen the book valued as high as$1700. --Tom from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Wed Feb 20 22:31:17 2002 g1L4VH828140 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:31:17 - id ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:19:21 -0500 Subject: FW: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? "But if someone thinks that he has a treasure (yes, even in a Phillipson ora Granger) that simply MUST be preserved, he's probably been smokin' hissocks." Bill and all, "De gustibus non disputandum," of course; or "smoke 'em if you got 'em"! But just for the sake of dispute, I note as evidence a market of apparentsuch fools across the country that pay pretty dearly--and maybe sometimestoo dearly--for those production rods. Harmon Henkin didn't like such rodseither. (And we haven't even moved up and across the distinction drawnbetween, say, Granger, and Thomas or Edwards). I'll cite Gierach's economicanalysis in Fishing Bamboo of the relative value of the high-end models-aHeddon 50 or 1000; a Granger Deluxe or Premier or a Registered- againstaverage weekly salaries fifty and sixty years ago. Some of theserods-especially if you're careful-are not too expensive, if Gierach'srelative dollar figures are at all accurate; they seem sensible to me, and Ibet there's a few on the list who could verify or correct them. Not to be hard-nosed; what some value as deserving preservation-just lookatebay!-others may see as folly. Even the relatively better production rodswere intended, I guess, as nothing more than fishing instruments-not futurecollectibles, I'm sure, to be preserved, restored, and peered over: but thatis what has happened to them. I'm sure the High Ones (Garrison and Gillum,Payne and Young and all the others) would laugh too at what we pay for theirold fishing poles, however fine. And I'll bet they'd all wish they couldlive one day over with such wages! I'll hush. Tom CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} -----Original Message-----From: Goodmann, Tom Sent: Wednesday, =February 20, 200211:12 PM Subject: RE: ferrules: =to refinishor to restore? "But if someone thinks that he has a treasure (yes, even =in aPhillipson or a Granger) that simply MUST be preserved, he's probably =beensmokin' his socks." Bill and all, "De gustibus non disputandum," of course; or ="smoke 'emif you got 'em"!=A0 = But just for the sake of dispute, I note as evidence a market =ofapparent such fools across the country that pay pretty dearly--and =maybesometimes too dearly--for those production rods.=A0 Harmon Henkin didn't like such =rodseither.=A0 (And we haven't even=movedup and across the distinction drawn between, say, Granger, and Thomas =orEdwards).=A0 I'll cite =Gierach's economicanalysis in Fishing Bamboo of the relative value of the high-end models-a Heddon 50 or1000; a Granger Deluxe or Premier or a Registered-against average =weeklysalaries fifty and sixty years ago.=A0 =Someof these rods-especially if you're careful-are not tooexpensive, if Gierach's relative dollar figures are at all accurate; =theyseem sensible to me, and I bet there's a few on the list who could =verifyor correct them.=A0 = Not to be hard-nosed; what some value as deservingpreservation-just look at ebay!-others may see as folly.=A0 Even the relatively better =production rodswere intended, I guess, as nothing more than fishing instruments- notfuture collectibles, I'm sure, to be preserved, restored, and peeredover: but that is what has happened to them.=A0I'm sure the High Ones (Garrison and Gillum, Payne and Young andall the others) would laugh too at what we pay for their old fishing =poles,however fine.=A0 And I'll betthey'd all wish they could live one day over with such wages! = I'll hush. Tom from SBDunn@aol.com Wed Feb 20 23:05:46 2002 g1L55j829061 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:05:45 - Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? Oh by the way, I was just looking at the back of the Idyl's dust jacket and the publisher (Stewart & Kidd company) was used to advertise the following titles (and authors).... "Casting Tackle and Methods" by O.W. Smith ($3.00)"Fishing Tackle and Kits" by Dixie Carroll ($3.00)"Lake and Stream Game Fishing" by Dixie Carroll ($3.00)"Bass, Pike, Perch and other Game Fishes of America" By Dr. Jas. A. Henshall ($3.00)"Book of the Black Bass and More About the Black Bass" By Dr. Jas. A. Henshall ($3.00). Think they got any more of those three dollar Henshall books? Steve. from geert.poorteman@undp.org Thu Feb 21 01:34:19 2002 g1L7YI806371 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:34:18 - g1L7Y7A07148 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:34:07 - 0500 Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:26:48 +0200 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Re: How about this.] OK!this should do itGeert Reed Curry a Äcrit: Geert,The rodmakers list would like this info, why don't you send it toRodmakers? Thanks for the great ideas. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ -------- Original Message --------Subject: Fwd: Re: How about this.Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:25:47 +0800From: Tony Young Hi Reed,I'm snowed under here so rather than ask Geet to send this to the list Ithought you may be interested. Have a good one. Tony Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:27:31 +0200From: "Geert Poorteman" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [fr] (Win95; I) Subject: Re: How about this. Hi Tony,go to a store where dacryl big game lines are sold and buy a piece.You canmake a taper by picking out a couple of strands so the popint isthinner. Ihave just gotten a piece of big game dacryl and it weighs 7 grams for 9meters,which makes it a #4 line. The first line I had was a #2 (4grams per 9meter).If you slip another piece of 4gr line in the first one, you'll have a 8gr/meter, which is (if I recall well, I don't have my lists here)between a #5and #6. For coating the line I use the recepies found on Reedswebsite. I havea buch of other recepies from french sites, but they ask for funnythings likegold glue... Linseeed oil, turpentine, PU varnish in 1/1/1 volume measureslooks OK. I take maybe a bit more linseed oil. Then I attach the linesomewherein my garden and give it several coats of the mix. I can give aboutone coat aday (but day temperatures here are around 30ŸC in the shade). Too muchvarnishmakes the line very stiff. I have never fished them, but I supposethey'llneedgrease to float properly. I think that, without coating they would be slowsinking lines. It's fune to make different tapers. I made a 'smallstream 'line for a friend. It is a weight forward, but the belly is only about 6mlong,so he can shoot line without having a lot out of the tip top. Geert Tony Young a Äcrit: More to the point how do I get one or are these a DIY jobbie? Tony At 10:09 AM 2/18/02 -0500, Reed Curry wrote:Geert,What line weight rod will cast this? I would think only a oneweight or two weight...what is your experience? Do you have todress themto float? Thanks.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Geert Poorteman wrote: Hi Tony,I do this, and it casts great. I haven't fished with my linesyet, butthey cast very well. You can taper the ends by oicking outstrands andmake the belly thicker by slipping another line in it with a bluntneddle.Geert -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ . -- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Feb 21 03:55:12 2002 g1L9tA807875 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:55:11 - g1L9t4B88163; Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Kyle I may very well be wrong here, but it seems to me that for practical purposes one butane flame is about as hot as another butane flame; biggerburners produce more heat in total than small burners, but at the point ofmaximum temperatute in a butane flame, the temperature will be about thesame in all of them. Even if you flame bamboo with a small burner, as long as you pay attentionto detail and move it about sufficiently, taking care not to dwell on anyone spot past the time needed to achieve the colour you want, you should befine. It will take you a bit more time with a small burner, and you will need tobe careful of local overheating; but remember, this stuff doesn't go blackin a second or two, so you won't stuff up a culm as fast as you think! Personally, I think that taking the staining option is in the same leagueas rubber grips and shrink-wrap guide binding. Just take the torch and get into it. When you have done your first one, youwill wonder what you were worried about. If you are determined to have itblack you may be disappointed first time around, but you will know moreabout flaming bamboo than you will know after staining one, and somewheredown the line you will get your black (-ish) one. "Faint heart never won fair lady." Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Feb 21 03:57:20 2002 g1L9vI808021 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:57:19 - g1L9vBB88742; Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Potassium permanganate. Peter from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Thu Feb 21 04:41:58 2002 g1LAfv808645 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:41:58 - with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:43:11 - 0000 Subject: Swelled Butt Hi all, this might seem like a silly question (I'm new)but can someone explain to me what a swelled butt is? ThanksNick from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Thu Feb 21 05:42:31 2002 g1LBgU809383 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:42:30 - with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:43:48 - 0000 Subject: Swelled Butts -----Original Message----- Subject: Subject: Swelled Butt Hi all, this might seem like a silly question (I'm new)but can someone explain to me what a swelled butt is? ThanksNick from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Feb 21 06:57:47 2002 g1LCvk810113 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:57:46 - g1LCvfE7020102 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:57:41 - Subject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested g1LCvk810114 Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? Mark At 10:30 PM 2/20/2002 -0500, you wrote: Guys, some people are having trouble with the site. I am not sure what isgoing on, I can access it and I have checked to see that I am not looking ata cached page. Here is a direct link.http://www.downandacross.com/html/available_rods.htmlSorry. I could send a list to anyone who cannot get it.Bob ps. I apologize for the bandwith, I probably was out of line the first time,but this is ridiculous! from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu Feb 21 07:12:32 2002 g1LDCV810512 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:12:31 - (149.225.124.214) Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? Hi Gerald, what about classic rods and rodmakers? I'm sure a lot of us cannot afford tobuya copy of that anymore...... I have never actually read it or seen it so I donot know if it is really worth it, what do the rest of you think of this one? Stuart Gerald Buckley schrieb: Agreed re. copyrights. Working for a scientific publishing house... I'msensitive to that one. I have a msg in with Kim at Derrydale right now. I love the books! They're just hard as hen's teeth to get a hold of. But,how else can I determine if I REALLY want to shell out the big bugs for thatrare edition... know what I mean? Now that we're accustomed to the daily dialogue, watching Glenn Brackettviavideo stream, and hopping over to so-and-so's website for hints or peeksatcomponents... it just seems like a great way to round out the experienceforthose who have the inclination to utilize the computer and networks attheirdisposal. If I get the go ahead from Derrydale... I'll do Wells' book ASAP. I suspectthey have no say on the edition in question though as the copyright hassurely run it's lifetime by now. Anyone have any other titles they'd like to see this way? Gerald from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Thu Feb 21 07:32:47 2002 g1LDWk811101 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:32:46 - Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:32:35 -0600content-class: urn:content- classes:messageSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Thread-Topic: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Thread-Index: AcG6iTgoN2TeSCZxEda4IwBglOouXwAUK5fA FILETIME=[39426AB0:01C1BADC] g1LDWl811102 Bill - Those must have been some excellent socks you toked before reading mynote, because I was agreeing that these rods are NOT works of art to berestored as for a museum. I was only saying some are fine fishinginstruments not to be lumped in with other production rods that cast likebricks. But more importantly, what about those socks. Were they a really oldpair of wool hiking socks, with the heel starting to wear through, worn forseveral days without washing? Those always give me the best buzz. Do yousell them to fellow rodmakers? Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Barry, A few of these tapers were very nice, indeed, but none of the rods, overall,was what I would call "great." Certainly they were nothing to get excitedabout as far a preserving their "collector's value" is concerned. They cannever be regarded as much of an investment for the future, though they will,no doubt, hold their value. These are rods that didn't cost much when they were made, and they don'tcost much now. So one can feel comfortable about refinishing, re- ferruling,re-griping, re-wrapping and so on without worrying about preservingoriginality or market value. If one does careful and tasteful work, theserods will continue to fish well (and they will, at long last, look nice aswell). If a person just likes the IDEA of retestoring to original condition, wellthen, ok. That's different. But if someone thinks that he has a treasure(yes, even in a Phillipson or a Granger) that simply MUST be preserved, he'sprobably been smokin' his socks. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Bill - I agree with your main point, but to include Phillipson and Granger in the list is also more than a little goofy. Not because of their value tocollectors, but because they made many great rods. For casting and forplaying fish, that is. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 7:12 AM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Bob, I agree entirely. This mania for preserving the "collectors value" of anold Heddon, South Bend, Granger, Phillipson, H-I, etc. all seems prettygoofy to me. If a guy is interested in nothing but collecting and trading, then I suppose it's a different matter. But if you're interested infly-fishing, then why not turn these sow's ears into silk purses? The value of these production rods is never so great, anyhow, that one dare not change anything. On the contrary, most of those old rods looked pretty terrible right out of the box. Any one of us could build a better (andbetter- looking) rod without even half trying. So, what's the big deal? "Vanishing Scenes of Americana?" Gimme a break! Those old rods are a dime a dozen. Some were pretty good, but most weren't. The preservationist societies and museums have already saved about all ofthem that need to be saved, and the collectors only want to trade inuntouched, original junk. As for fishing, well, go ahead and dress one ofthe old rods up if you feel like it. Otherwise, go out to your shop,duplicate an old taper (if you're fond of one of them) and fish a rod that's both well made and good looking. Let the games begin... . Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 1:23 AMSubject: Re: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? Tom,Just between you and I... if your gonna use it to fish, which is what it was originally intended for, then what difference does it make if you put better components on what "MIGHT" be a $200 rod to make it a betterrod.Fix it up like it should have been in the first place, and make a goodfishing rod out of it... JMHO Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Goodmann, Tom" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:57 PMSubject: RE: ferrules: to refinish or to restore? This is tricky subject--and one pursued on this list, I'll bet, at some earlier points. Steve Weiss is certainly right to draw the distinction between refinishing and restoring in this regard . . . but as someone who enjoys fishing those old rods, I lean toward replacing any such irreparable components of questionable quality with better than original hardware. That's to say, in a case like this South Bend rod with a split ferrule, I wouldn't go out of my way to find a replacement for the original, unless it were itself of good quality. But maybe to say even this much is to stray too far from rodmaking per se. What do others think? Tom from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 21 07:36:51 2002 g1LDao811346 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:36:50 - Thu,21 Feb 2002 08:36:44 -0500 Subject: e-mail that crashes my PC IS anyone else out ther getting messages from nichoas.kingston@ipb----(Somethingon the end). I get a few every couple of days and it alwaysfreezes my PC. I would set a filter, but everytime it pops up, I crash. Themessage has no subject.I am not sure if this is a virus, my scan shows noithing.Best regards,Bob from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Feb 21 07:51:03 2002 g1LDp2811879 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:51:02 - id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:43:55 -0500 id D56AML1W; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:43:54 -0500 Subject: Re: e-mail that crashes my PC This was hitting me as pretty odd to Bob. I've gotten several messagesover the last week or two also. Strangest part is that I've got afilter set to move all the rodmakers messages to their own folder andthese don't make it there. They don't crash my system, but pretty oddnonetheless. The address is nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie so if you want to set a filter,do it on that address. Bob Maulucci wrote: IS anyone else out ther getting messages from nichoas.kingston@ipb----(Somethingon the end). I get a few every couple of days and it alwaysfreezes my PC. I would set a filter, but everytime it pops up, I crash. Themessage has no subject.I am not sure if this is a virus, my scan shows noithing.Best regards,Bob -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Thu Feb 21 07:52:40 2002 Received: g1LDqe812133 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:40:42 -0500 Message- "'nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie'" Cc: rodSubject: RE: what is a swelled butt Date: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Oh my, Nicholas; don't getthese guys started. Who paid you to ask this question? (LOL) I'll defer to themore astute in saying briefly that a rod with a swelled butt features adistinctly widened taper just ahead of the grip (Heddon rods are known forthis feature, for instance; some commemorative rods by Thomas andThomas--the "Just Swell," for example, demonstrate the point in dramaticterms). Some folks like swelled butts aesthetically (here we go, lads andlasses); some like the way that the taper stops the action ahead of the rodgrip. Many dislike swelled butt tapers for those very same reasons,preferring continuous action into the rod grip. But I stand eager to beamended and corrected, given the expertise on this list. --Tom -----Original fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Feb 21 08:01:12 2002 Received: from q4.quik.com g1LE2cX51192; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:02:38 -0800 Message-ID:Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:01:24 -0600 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie, "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu"Subject: Re: References:From: "Kingston, Nicholas" Subject: Swelled Butt Hi all, this might seem like a silly question (I'm new)but can someone explain to me what a swelled butt is? ThanksNick -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Thu Feb 21 08:07:44 2002 g1LE7h812970 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:07:43 - id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:55:44 -0500 Subject: RE: Out of print rod books? this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. "what about classic rods and rodmakers?" In the case of Martin Keane's classic Classic, we really ought to defer tohis plan-so some have reported to this listserv-for a second edition (or anew book). I think this is just the sort of case where things can gettouchy, given that the author is alive and well (and well-respected); werehe himself and his publisher to give the go-ahead to an electronic copy oredition, I'd say fine, but not otherwise. Interlibrary loan services may be able to get you a look at a copy of thebook; I think its many happy owners and readers would agree in desiring someclose- up photographs of the wonderful rods discussed and pictured. It isaltogether highly readable, and based on Keane's personal knowledge of rodsdiscussed. (It is also ably supplemented and enlarged by A. J. Campbell'sbook, which among other things gives extended attention to production rodsin bamboo and in fiberglass, as Martin Keane does not; to say nothing ofreels and other tackle items). Poking around may turn up a copy, as Steve Dunn reports in his successfulcyber-searching for the Holden book. Tom NormalDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} "what about classic rods and =rodmakers?" In the case of Martin Keane's classic Classic, we really ought to defer to his plan-so some have reported to thislistserv- for a second edition (or a new book).=A0 I think this is just the sort of =case wherethings can get touchy, given that the author is alive and well (andwell- respected); were he himself and his publisher to give the go-ahead =to anelectronic copy or edition, I'd say fine, but not =otherwise. Interlibrary loan services may be able to get you a look at a =copy ofthe book; I think its many happy owners and readers would agree in =desiring someclose-up photographs of the wonderful rods discussed and pictured.=A0 It is altogether highly readable, =and basedon Keane's personal knowledge of rods discussed.=A0 (It is also ably supplemented and =enlarged byA. J. Campbell's book, which among other things gives extended =attentionto production rods in bamboo and in fiberglass, as Martin Keane does =not; tosay nothing of reels and other tackle =items). Poking around may turn up a copy, as Steve Dunn reports in his =successfulcyber-searching for the Holden book. Tom from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Feb 21 08:40:27 2002 g1LEeQ814672 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:40:26 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? - copyright issues Stuart, "Classic Rods and Rodmakers" is copyrighted by Marty Keane and that copyright passes to his heirs for 70 years after his death. As he sporadically mentions a second printing, I doubt that he would want to allow his book to be published on the 'net. This is a straightforward example, a more complex situation Art Port alluded to in a previous email. I wanted to extract the Kreider tapers from the Kreider book and post them on my website, so I asked Dick Spurr if he knew the holder of the copyright. He claimed that he was the owner of the copyright and I couldn't do an extract ("extracts" are a permissible exemption to copyright, but must meet certain criteria). Some simple investigation proved that the son of Kreider was, in fact, the owner of the copyright, but since I couldn't locate him to secure his permission, I canned the idea. In honor of the angling writers that have contributed so much to the sport, I am very careful in my extracts, as we should all be. And with extracts I will be content for the present. While it is possible to scan in and upload an entire volume (e.g., Well's book), the pleasure of browsing the pages is lost in an electronic format; and I think most of us would find it tedious to print out a 400 page work (imagine how tedious it would be to scan it in). Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Stuart Moultrie wrote: Hi Gerald, what about classic rods and rodmakers? I'm sure a lot of us cannot affordto buya copy of that anymore...... I have never actually read it or seen it so I donot know if it is really worth it, what do the rest of you think of this one? Stuart from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Feb 21 09:05:46 2002 g1LF5k815995 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:05:46 - g1LF5bE08059; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:05:37 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: e-mail that crashes my PC He is asking rodmaking questions and I have replied to him. I am not havinganyproblems with his messages.You might notify him of your problem and have him do some checking on hisend.Bob, is your other E addy still good.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Todd Talsma wrote: This was hitting me as pretty odd to Bob. I've gotten several messagesover the last week or two also. Strangest part is that I've got afilter set to move all the rodmakers messages to their own folder andthese don't make it there. They don't crash my system, but pretty oddnonetheless. The address is nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie so if you want to set a filter,do it on that address. Bob Maulucci wrote: IS anyone else out ther getting messages from nichoas.kingston@ipb----(Somethingon the end). I get a few every couple of days and it alwaysfreezes my PC. I would set a filter, but everytime it pops up, I crash. Themessage has no subject.I am not sure if this is a virus, my scan shows noithing.Best regards,Bob --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie Thu Feb 21 09:12:02 2002 g1LFC1816524 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:12:01 - with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:13:20 - 0000 Subject: JM Turville Has anyone heard of a slit cane rod made under the name JM Turville? Nick -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nick,A swelled butt is where the butt section of the rod at the griptakes a larger size that is real noticeable. In other words, thebutt swells in size.Hope this explains it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie wrote: From: "Kingston, Nicholas" Cc: "RODMAKERS (E-mail)" Subject: Swelled ButtsDate: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:43:47 -0000X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:42Subject: From: "Kingston, Nicholas" Subject: Swelled ButtDate: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:43:09 -0000X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Hi all, this might seem like a silly question (I'm new)but can someone explain to me what a swelled butt is? ThanksNick from rmoon@ida.net Thu Feb 21 09:28:55 2002 g1LFSs817687 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:28:54 - Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? Steve:When I was curator of the IFFC, a copy of Holden's Idyll was donated to me. Ithad the inscription on the fly leaf. "For our good friend Everett Garrison"signed by Harry and Elsie Darbee. I have had a copy for years that has ontheface of the Cover, "The Idyll of the Split Bamboo" Auhor "Dixie Carroll" A;;that in Gold leaf, but imprinted by a stamp beneath the Dixie Carroll, is"GeorgeParker Holden" RalphSBDunn@aol.com wrote: Holden wrote at least three fishing books. "The Idyl of the Split Bamboo" in1920, "Streamcraft - an Angling Manual" in 1919. My 1927 edition of"Streamcraft" mentions the author's other works. "Angling: RecollectionsandPractice" is listed as one of his books, though I have never seen or heardofit except here. the Split Bamboo". I lost out on three or four of them on ebay -- each timedropping out of the bidding between $250 and $300. Then one day I sawone onYahoo's auction and got it for about $50.00. When I got it, I was surprisedto see that it had a few extras the seller hadn't mentioned -- it has thedust jacket (I had never even seen one before) and it was autographed byHolden - twice. The seller was so pleased to get that price that sheunexpectedly paid the shipping. Probably my best Internet auction buyever. Regards, Steve. from FlyfishT@aol.com Thu Feb 21 10:11:26 2002 g1LGBP820139 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:11:25 - for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:11:11 - Subject: Making a Mill I'm attempting to make a Dickerson-style mill. Does anyone know what the headstock where he attached the 60- degreecutters is called and if it is available anywhere? Is there anywhere I can buy a ball bearing 1" mandrel that is ready to go and to which I can just attach the 60-degree cutters? I assume hte shaft has to be keyed, otherwise the cutters will slip? I see McMaster Car has a 3/4" ball bearing mandrel. Will it work? I have been looking at 1" keyed shafting through (MSC) and pillow blocks. But I would have to thread the shafting to place the nuts on either side of the cutters. Is this the way to go? I don't want to buy anything that I can't use. Thanks much. Tom from GBuckley@aapg.org Thu Feb 21 10:32:46 2002 g1LGWj821389 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:32:45 - 21 Feb 02 10:37:30 -0600 -0600 21 Feb 02 10:35:14 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Unidentified Rod James - I have a really busted up rod that says (in WHITE ink) "Four Brothers" onone flat and some other really garbled info on another. Here's what we determined a long time ago about this rod... Subject: Re: Four Brothers rod Can you send a photo of the ferrules, and grip, with the butt section st thefront of the grip shown ? I think Heddon made some for Pfluger, as they did GMA----- Original Message ----- Subject: Four Brothers rod I've poked and prodded around enough to know the Four Brothers rod I bought a few weeks back is a trademark of Pflueger's. Beyond that I don't knowjack! and I'm stumped. Does anyone have digitized photos of a mint Four Brothers rod I canreference from or can anyone help me piece the history of this rod from GBuckley@aapg.org Thu Feb 21 11:08:08 2002 g1LH87823367 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:08:07 - 21 Feb 02 11:12:52 -0600 -0600 21 Feb 02 11:11:37 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? Derrydale Press just gave the green light for the second edition (1901) ofHenry P. Wells' "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle" to go "electronic": That editionis in the public domain now. Have the scans started as I type. Folks, I agree it's a disconnect to peruse such a neat subject in a mannerit wasn't intended (digital v. print). But, from a preservation standpoint, from an outreach standpoint... an effort like this sure has potential torejuvenate some interest in and appreciation of our art/craft/hobby/trade.Making the classics a little more accessible could go a long way... I'll keep you posted on the efforts. from rextutor@yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 11:12:24 2002 g1LHCN823796 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:12:23 - 21 Feb 2002 09:12:22 PST Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? So would the electronic version be for sale ? --- Gerald Buckley wrote: Derrydale Press just gave the green light for thesecond edition (1901) ofHenry P. Wells' "Fly-Rods and Fly-Tackle" to go"electronic": That editionis in the public domain now. Have the scans started as I type. Folks, I agree it's a disconnect to peruse such aneat subject in a mannerit wasn't intended (digital v. print). But, from apreservation standpoint, from an outreach standpoint... an effort like thissure has potential torejuvenate some interest in and appreciation of ourart/craft/hobby/trade.Making the classics a little more accessible couldgo a long way... I'll keep you posted on the efforts. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from GBuckley@aapg.org Thu Feb 21 11:19:10 2002 g1LHJ9824567 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:19:09 - 21 Feb 02 11:23:54 -0600 -0600 21 Feb 02 11:22:48 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? Intent was to put it on a site somewhere for download. Next question isprobably, "Where?" and I don't know yet. Maybe lots of places. It's probablygoing to be a large file (or large series of files by chapter). So, maybethe correct answer is it will be freely available online somewhere and alsoavailable via CD to cover costs and postage. Wonder if this sort of effort could benefit a related not-for-profit outthere? Thoughts? As I'm really winging this right now. from rmoon@ida.net Thu Feb 21 11:38:20 2002 g1LHcK827485 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:38:20 - Subject: bamboo rod symposium web site I have completely revised the Bamboo Rod Symposium website, and included a great deal of information that was not in the last one. The URL haschanged slightly for which I apologize. I can't figure out how to tiethe old one to the new one. Please if you have bookmarked this site,change your bookmarks. Any comments about the site I will appreciatereceiving. I am new to this, and can use all the help I can get. The new URL is: http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon/ This varies from the previous url by the omission of the word"symposium" Ralph from rextutor@yahoo.com Thu Feb 21 11:55:11 2002 g1LHtA800275 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:55:10 - 21 Feb 2002 09:55:06 PST Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? Tu or FFF ? Maybe contact them ?--- Gerald Buckley wrote: Intent was to put it on a site somewhere fordownload. Next question isprobably, "Where?" and I don't know yet. Maybe lotsof places. It's probablygoing to be a large file (or large series of files the correct answer is it will be freely availableonline somewhere and alsoavailable via CD to cover costs and postage. Wonder if this sort of effort could benefit arelated not-for-profit outthere? Thoughts? As I'm really winging this right now. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from caneman@clnk.com Thu Feb 21 12:09:37 2002 g1LI9a802265 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:09:36 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: bamboo rod symposium web site Gentlemen of the list,Check out the symposium page that Ralph put up, and Please, if there'sany way you can, come to this event. Personally, I'm honored to be amongthe names helping out at the Symposium... just look at the list!!! JohnZimny, Ray Gould, Andy Royer, Tom Smithwick, Hank Woolman, Bret Reiter,Marty Karstetter, Bob Clark, Dave Mosely, Dennis Higham, Mike Shaeffer, a"Why Bamboo" forum moderated by Charles Taylor, a casting clinic directedbyTroy Miller (if you've never seen Troy cast a cane rod, let me tell you,he'll even amaze the finest makers at what he can make a cane rod do!), andlast, but certainly not least, Ralph Moon, whose love for flyfishing andcane rods is absolutely unequalled.This will, IMHO, be the best thing that's happened for cane rodmaking atthe FFF to date. Think about it... Not including those of you who show upwho aren't YET directly involved with the symposium, there are over 2Centuries of combined rodmaking experience in those listed on the site. Somuch knowledge and experience together in one place for one week! Now foracane rodmaker, there's only one thing better, and that's catching that firstfish on that first rod!If you only make one big trip this year, make it this one. And forthose of you that are game to sneak away, I know some spots just south oftown where we can build some wild tales about wild cutthroat in Griz country(don't worry, I'm crippled up and slow... you can outrun me if you can'toutrun the bears!). Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: bamboo rod symposium web site I have completely revised the Bamboo Rod Symposium website, and included a great deal of information that was not in the last one. The URL haschanged slightly for which I apologize. I can't figure out how to tiethe old one to the new one. Please if you have bookmarked this site,change your bookmarks. Any comments about the site I will appreciatereceiving. I am new to this, and can use all the help I can get. The new URL is: http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon/ This varies from the previous url by the omission of the word"symposium" Ralph from SBDunn@aol.com Thu Feb 21 12:25:17 2002 g1LIPG804793 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:25:16 - Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? One thing that I didn't mention Ralph was that it was you that got me started on this book search. I don't know if you will remember the conversation but, when I took a rod making class from you (in 1992?) you told me a storyabout a guy that found a four or five dollar copy of the Idyl at Sam Weller's bookstore here in SLC. After that, and for many years, I made weekly trips to Sam's. While I never got the book I was after, they sold me several dozens of other angling books. Anyway, its your fault. You started me searching. One of these days, I'll find the Lambuth book. Regards, Steve. from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Thu Feb 21 14:29:53 2002 g1LKTq820348 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:29:52 - Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:31:23 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Yeah,but how many builders could build a rod that small and keep thedimensions consistent on all 6 flats ??Shawn Mark Wendt wrote: Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Feb 21 14:41:16 2002 g1LKfF822288 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:41:15 - g1LKfEE7001027 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:41:14 - Subject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested g1LKfG822291 Shawn, If anybody could do it, it'd be Bob.... ;^? Mark At 04:32 PM 2/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: Yeah,but how many builders could build a rod that small and keep thedimensions consistent on all 6 flats ??Shawn Mark Wendt wrote: Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Feb 21 14:52:08 2002 g1LKq7824022 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:52:07 - for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:51:51 - 0221155151; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:51:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Here's one more thing to add to the foam grip, single foot guide, and ceramicinsert stripper list: Gudebrod metallic thread I know... it seems hoaky, but if you look past the colors like metalic springgreen and metallic aqua marine there are a few that look really good. Checkout the metallic colors pewter, bronze, black, copper, or ole gold. I wrappedpewter on this first rod and it turned out really well. In a message dated Thu, 21 Feb 2002 4:55:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Peter McKean" writes:Kyle I may very well be wrong here, but it seems to me that for practicalpurposes one butane flame is about as hot as another butane flame; biggerburners produce more heat in total than small burners, but at the point ofmaximum temperatute in a butane flame, the temperature will be aboutthesame in all of them. Even if you flame bamboo with a small burner, as long as you pay attentionto detail and move it about sufficiently, taking care not to dwell on anyone spot past the time needed to achieve the colour you want, you shouldbefine. It will take you a bit more time with a small burner, and you will need tobe careful of local overheating; but remember, this stuff doesn't go blackin a second or two, so you won't stuff up a culm as fast as you think! Personally, I think that taking the staining option is in the same leagueas rubber grips and shrink-wrap guide binding. Just take the torch and get into it. When you have done your first one, youwill wonder what you were worried about. If you are determined to have itblack you may be disappointed first time around, but you will know moreabout flaming bamboo than you will know after staining one, andsomewheredown the line you will get your black (-ish) one. "Faint heart never won fair lady." Peter from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 21 15:01:58 2002 g1LL1v825285 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:01:57 - 21 Feb 2002 16:01:50 -0500 Subject: RE: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Mark:I apologize, I did not get it the first time. Now I am really concernedbecause someone asked if it was a wet fly taper.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Yeah,but how many builders could build a rod that small and keep thedimensions consistent on all 6 flats ??Shawn Mark Wendt wrote: Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 21 15:01:59 2002 g1LL1w825290 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:01:58 - 21 Feb 2002 16:01:51 -0500 Subject: RE: e-mail that crashes my PC HI Todd and List:I did not realize that Nick was a lister. I cannot figure out why the emptysubject line crashes Outlook 2000, but it does. I did not mean to imply thatit was malicious, but my post probably did. I apologize to Nick, and I hopeto figure it out soon. I opened a few messages from work today on my iMac,and Nick's messages came through loud and clear (let's not get a Mac vs. PCthread going, please).As I stated last week, the inbox full of beastiality sites and disgustingmessages has me wary. Thanks to everyone who has tried to help me withbothproblems.Best regards,Bob from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 21 15:25:23 2002 g1LLPM826976 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:25:22 - Subject: RE: Making a Mill Tom:Let me start with a disclaimer: I have never built a final taper millmyself. I now own one that is still being assembled as I write this. BUT, Ihave talked to everyone about mills that I can, and I write it all down! My advice is to stick with the 1" shaft so that you have access to morecommon cutters. Whatever you do, do not mount the cutters on a shaftdirectly attached to the motor. Use pulleys. I saw the Bellinger big millthis weekend, and I was told that it is problematic to have the shaftdirectly attached to the motor. The motor vibrates and causes run out onthecutter end. A belt attached to a pully seems smarter, and you can use it toincrease the cutter speed to the proper rate when matched with a steadyfeedrate. The 5700 rpm range seems to be about the recommended speed. Mostmotors I see are 1750 rpm so far. Of course, you have to match the rpmswiththe right speed of feeding the cane through.I could send you some pics of the old Orosz mill I just bought. It may helpyou out. A decent design. When matched with some other things that havebeenposted, you should have a good start. My best advice is to ask Chris Luckeror Ed Hartzell. Or call any other professional maker who runs one day in andday out that likes to talk. Some great guys out there. Some are gettingolder. Don't miss out on their expertise. Best regards.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Making a Mill I'm attempting to make a Dickerson-style mill. Does anyone know what the headstock where he attached the 60- degreecuttersis called and if it is available anywhere? Is there anywhere I can buy a ball bearing 1" mandrel that is readyto go andto which I can just attach the 60-degree cutters? I assume hte shaft has tobe keyed, otherwise the cutters will slip? I see McMaster Car has a3/4" ballbearing mandrel. Will it work? I have been looking at 1" keyed shafting through (MSC) and pillowblocks. ButI would have to thread the shafting to place the nuts on either side of thecutters. Is this the way to go? I don't want to buy anything that I can't use. Thanks much. Tom from hartzell@easystreet.com Thu Feb 21 15:43:24 2002 g1LLhN828013 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:43:23 - g1LLhHu12326; Subject: Re: Making a Mill Tom,I made my mill and used a shaper spindle on which to mount the cutters.Theywere once sold by a mail order hardware company, but have not been in theircatalog for some time. Dickerson made his own spindle using a casting andballbearings. You should be careful about this as the spindle should be rated todeliver at least 4,000 to 5,000 rpm. If you make your own mill you will needsome machinery like a lathe to do the machining necessary . People have bentalking about converting a surface grinder to a mill and that should work. Theinvestment would be about 300 to 400 dollars used. A small planer mightalso bepossible for a smaller price but would require more work to make it into arodmachine. Good luck.Ed Hartzell FlyfishT@aol.com wrote: I'm attempting to make a Dickerson-style mill. Does anyone know what the headstock where he attached the 60- degreecuttersis called and if it is available anywhere? Is there anywhere I can buy a ball bearing 1" mandrel that is ready to goandto which I can just attach the 60-degree cutters? I assume hte shaft hastobe keyed, otherwise the cutters will slip? I see McMaster Car has a 3/4"ballbearing mandrel. Will it work? I have been looking at 1" keyed shafting through (MSC) and pillow blocks.ButI would have to thread the shafting to place the nuts on either side of thecutters. Is this the way to go? I don't want to buy anything that I can't use. Thanks much. Tom from dybam@oct.net Thu Feb 21 15:50:32 2002 g1LLoW828521 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:50:32 - Subject: Re: Epon [4000080e]. Communications, Inc. I used Epon glue for the first time last week, great stuff.White vinegarmakes clean-up easy. To preserve the life of my binder drive belt I soakedin white vinegar over night and rinsed it with warm water the next morning,now its as good as new. I don't know what others are doing but it sure works Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Mark:I apologize, I did not get it the first time. Now I am really concernedbecause someone asked if it was a wet fly taper.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:33 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Yeah,but how many builders could build a rod that small and keep thedimensions consistent on all 6 flats ??Shawn Mark Wendt wrote: Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? from bob@downandacross.com Thu Feb 21 16:52:25 2002 g1LMqN801600 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:52:24 - Subject: RE: Making a Mill I hagve seen some nice surface grinders for $400-600. The only problem isthat they run 1700 to 2500 pounds from what I can tell. That is great if youcan get on home. I was quoted $800 shipping on a $400 surface grinder. Looklocal. That great weight would be a big asset, but the hard part is themoving it.Bob -----Original Message----- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Feb 21 18:46:30 2002 g1M0kT805167 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:46:29 -0600 helo=default) id 16e3qs-0007D0-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:46:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested I think it may be a "Swizzle Stick" taper. M-D Mark:I apologize, I did not get it the first time. Now I am really concernedbecause someone asked if it was a wet fly taper.Bob Yeah,but how many builders could build a rod that small and keep thedimensions consistent on all 6 flats ??Shawn Mark Wendt wrote: Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 21 19:28:06 2002 g1M1S5806133 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:28:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested In a message dated 2/22/2 12:47:43 AM, jojo@ipa.net writes: Well of course, you are wrong jojo, swizzle sticks are glass or plastic. It's a chopstick taper. from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Feb 21 19:36:58 2002 g1M1av806498 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:36:57 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16e4dr-0005TZ-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:36:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo IMHO, I wouldn't include "ceramic insert strippers" in that list. To saythey're akin to foam grips and single-foot guides is sorta like sayingplaying "Dead Ants" with Aussie Sailors is akin to a kid's game of "squattag". An old U.S soldier boy found out...they ain't related. :>))Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Here's one more thing to add to the foam grip, single foot guide, and ceramic insert stripper list: Gudebrod metallic thread from jojo@ipa.net Thu Feb 21 19:47:41 2002 g1M1le806927 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:47:41 -0600 helo=default) id 16e4oG-0005aY-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:47:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Well, perhaps, Tom. Glass or plastic would be fitting for "rodbuilders" butwe rodmakers would certainly prefer our swizzle sticks to be bamboo,wouldn't we? M-D In a message dated 2/22/2 12:47:43 AM, jojo@ipa.net writes: Well of course, you are wrong jojo, swizzle sticks are glass or plastic. It's a chopstick taper. from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Thu Feb 21 19:56:52 2002 g1M1up807372 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:56:51 - g1M1nGt28661; Subject: Re: Around here they call it DBD. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Nick, A swelled butt in a bamboo rod is just what you mightthink from the descriptive title. A few inches above thecork, the bamboo portion of the rod shows a significantlysteep increase in diameter. An increase in diameter ofabout .1" over a distance of 2" would be a dramaticswell. Harry nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie wrote: From: "Kingston, Nicholas" Subject: Swelled Butt Hi all, this might seem like a silly question (I'm new)but can someone explain to me what a swelled butt is? ThanksNick -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 20:04:23 2002 g1M24M808009 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:04:22 - Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:04:17 -0800 Subject: Re: tung oil finish- a happy ending (for now) FILETIME=[3BA410B0:01C1BB45] Several nights ago I fired off a a question regarding what wrap varnish touse over a Tung oil finish.It was a panic situation, but I got immediate responses from so many helpfulpeople that it would be impossible to thank each one of you. This is a greatlist, with great people. There isn't a whole lot in the archives on Tung oil, so here is what Ilearned: Why did I consider tung oil? Well, I made my dad a Payne 98 for Christmas,and it turned out extremely well. I used a polyurethane finish. Then we wentfishing. About 10 o'clock the sun came out, and you could see that rodreflect light 100 yards away. It looked like a lighthouse. I vowed neveragain to make a rod with a high gloss finish. I decided to try tung on a fewrods because I was looking for something that would look good as a mattefinish. If you finish with Tung oil, your guide wraps can be finished with flex- coat(let's not start that thread again),Shellac, and some polyurethanes (but not Varmor R-10). Not allpolyurethaneswill stick. But the solution I chose was Man O War spar varnish, which istung oil based. It worked fine. I have found that Tung oil is a finish used by few rodmakers, and there isno consensus on its utility as a finish. It is non-toxic, goes on and workseasily, and you do not need a dip tank. I used pure tung, and put on about15 extremely thin coats. I put some on my hand, rubbed the blank down, andthen wiped it off completely with a cloth. No buffing or heat friction atall. Just wipe. For a while I thought that I wasn't leaving any finish onthe rod. I let each coat dry for at least 24 hours. After about 8-10 coats,it build up a very handsome semi-gloss finish that seems hard as glass- Ican not scratch it with my fingernail. I had no trouble getting it to dry.Afterward I let the blank hang for several weeks before wrapping. There are two issues with Tung oil that you need to be aware of. The firstis that it has no gap filling properties. Scratches, chatter marks, and lowspots will stick out like a sore thumb. Consequently your sanding has to beperfect, and you need to go to a very fine grit before you get even close tothe power fibers. You can't hide anything. You can't hide much with varnish,but even the slightest blemish will be visible with Tung. The second issue is water resistance. Here there is no consensus. Many listmembers contacted me to warn that Tung oil will allow moisture to creep intothe rod. Other people, including a chemist who works for a major paintcompany, told me that it is an excellent moisture barrier and they often useit in wet environments. Again opinions were divided and strong. Those fewrodmakers that used Tung seemed to like it a lot, and I have been contacted results. Bottom line is that I did several blanks with Tung oil, and will let youknow how well it lasts, and what happens to the rods as I use them. But itsure looks pretty. For those who want a matte finish and do not care forgrand experiments, you may want to consider spar varnish, which can bedulled by rubbing it down with a fine abrasive. That will be my approach forthe next batch of rods. Thanks again to all those who shared their knowledge. Jeff Schaeffer from briansr@point-net.com Thu Feb 21 20:23:00 2002 g1M2Mx810160 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:22:59 -0600 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:56:30 -0500 Subject: Game Women's Hockey @ SLSCanada wins !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!F---ing Hey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!What a game or what !!!!!!!! from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Feb 21 21:23:17 2002 g1M3NG811780 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:23:16 -0600 Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:23:03 -0800 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:23:02 GMT Subject: Need Help Finding Website FILETIME=[3CB5F4E0:01C1BB50] To the list, Walker Flyreel with a fishing scene in the background, another of the printswas of a Vom Hoffe Salmon Flyreel with a stream in the background and the and his rods. If anyone knows how to get to this website please let meknow. Here from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Feb 22 00:21:13 2002 g1M6LC815352 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:21:12 -0600 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:21:04 -0500 Subject: Smithwick Binder Just wanted to give a plug for the Smithwick binder. I originally built a Garrison binder when I was tooling up for the first rod, which worked quite well (followed the Bogart instructions). This second rod is a quad, and the Garrison binder tore up the edges pretty good when I bound the strips after roughing. I had the parts for a Smithwick style binder so I put one together. This is a very easy gadget to build and use, it does not put twists in the blank, and it is easy on the spline edges. I also like the Smithwick Binder because it sits right on top of the work bench, and doesnot need to be clamped or screwed down for use like the Garrison Binder. I think the G- Binder is going to the bone yard and I'm going to use the S-Binder from now on... from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Feb 22 00:53:37 2002 g1M6rb816247 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:53:37 -0600 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:53:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Game Dude, I think you are taking this Olypmic thing way too serious. I can understand enthusiasm and amazement over say, the Jon Gruden debacle and subsequent Al Davis media briefing this week (which was definetily pay per view material), but this is chick's hockey we are talking about... come on. [:)] (just kidding, I couldn't resist, please don't take this personal, hockey is a great sport no matter who is playing) In a message dated 02/21/2002 6:23:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, briansr@point-net.com writes: Women's Hockey @ SLSCanada wins !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!F---ing Hey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!What a game or what !!!!!!!! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Feb 22 01:47:27 2002 g1M7lN817131 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:47:23 -0600 , Subject: Re: Epon g1M7lQ817132 Vinager is good as is metholated spirits. Tony At 03:45 PM 2/21/22 -0600, Mark Dyba wrote: I used Epon glue for the first time last week, great stuff.White vinegarmakes clean-up easy. To preserve the life of my binder drive belt I soakedin white vinegar over night and rinsed it with warm water the next morning,now its as good as new. I don't know what others are doing but it sureworks Mark----- Original Message -----From: Bob Maulucci Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:01 PMSubject: RE: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Mark:I apologize, I did not get it the first time. Now I am really concernedbecause someone asked if it was a wet fly taper.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:33 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Yeah,but how many builders could build a rod that small and keep thedimensions consistent on all 6 flats ??Shawn Mark Wendt wrote: Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Feb 22 01:50:37 2002 g1M7oZ817406 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:50:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Try a game of "one armed basket ball" with the SAS boys (Special Air Service like the Brit Paras) sometime. Sheesh. There are only two rules. One is you have an over sized boxing glove on your main hand and no punching in the head "intentionally". Tony At 08:39 PM 2/21/02 -0500, Ed Riddle wrote: IMHO, I wouldn't include "ceramic insert strippers" in that list. To saythey're akin to foam grips and single-foot guides is sorta like sayingplaying "Dead Ants" with Aussie Sailors is akin to a kid's game of "squattag". An old U.S soldier boy found out...they ain't related. :>))Ed ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:51 PMSubject: Re: Staining Bamboo Here's one more thing to add to the foam grip, single foot guide, and ceramic insert stripper list: Gudebrod metallic thread /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Feb 22 05:22:56 2002 g1MBMt819350 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 05:22:55 -0600 g1MBMjQ02412; g1MBdn819819 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 05:39:49 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:40:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick upsome more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time.Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Feb 22 06:04:55 2002 g1MC4s820422 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:04:54 -0600 g1MC4nE7011473 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:04:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested g1MC4s820423 An 8" noodle rod? That would be a sight to see.... ;^? Kewl!!!!! Mark At 04:01 PM 2/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: Mark:I apologize, I did not get it the first time. Now I am really concernedbecause someone asked if it was a wet fly taper.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:33 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rods for sale II, Please Delete if not interested Yeah,but how many builders could build a rod that small and keep thedimensions consistent on all 6 flats ??Shawn Mark Wendt wrote: Hey Bob, That unknown rod, at 8" must be a heck of small stream rod..... ;^? from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Feb 22 06:16:40 2002 g1MCGe820950 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:16:40 -0600 g1MCGdE7011625 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:16:39 -0500 Subject: RE: e-mail that crashes my PC Bob, I think it has something with the way that MS Lookout! reads the email headers (info stuff that's packed into the message that lets the mail servers know what to do with the email). I manage a couple of large email servers here in my job, and we have quite a few users that utilize Lookout! certain number of spaces in the subject line (I believe it's at least two in a row). Lookout tries to interpret the spaces as an attachment, and can cause the system to do weird things when it can't read the "attachment" correctly. Can you do the three finger salute (Control-Alt-Delete) and kill the Outlook process? Mark At 04:01 PM 2/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: HI Todd and List:I did not realize that Nick was a lister. I cannot figure out why the emptysubject line crashes Outlook 2000, but it does. I did not mean to imply thatit was malicious, but my post probably did. I apologize to Nick, and I hopeto figure it out soon. I opened a few messages from work today on my iMac,and Nick's messages came through loud and clear (let's not get a Mac vs.PCthread going, please).As I stated last week, the inbox full of beastiality sites and disgustingmessages has me wary. Thanks to everyone who has tried to help me withbothproblems.Best regards,Bob from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Feb 22 06:24:32 2002 g1MCOV821245 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:24:31 -0600 g1MCOVE7011753 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:24:31 -0500 Subject: RE: e-mail that crashes my PC Bob, One other thing you may need to do, is load the latest Service Pack for Office2000. I believe it's up to Service Pack 2. You can get it downloading the service pack. Mark At 04:01 PM 2/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: HI Todd and List:I did not realize that Nick was a lister. I cannot figure out why the emptysubject line crashes Outlook 2000, but it does. I did not mean to imply thatit was malicious, but my post probably did. I apologize to Nick, and I hopeto figure it out soon. I opened a few messages from work today on my iMac,and Nick's messages came through loud and clear (let's not get a Mac vs.PCthread going, please).As I stated last week, the inbox full of beastiality sites and disgustingmessages has me wary. Thanks to everyone who has tried to help me withbothproblems.Best regards,Bob from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Feb 22 06:51:17 2002 g1MCpG821839 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:51:16 -0600 g1MCpGE7012149 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:51:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Staining Bamboo Good God Ed, ya just brought up more old flying memories. We called it "Dead Bug". In order to even mention the game in the Officer's Club, we had to call it "Deceased Cockroach". The minute anyone in the club heard "Dead Bug" they were on the floor on their backs, legs wigglin' in the air. Last one down bought the club a round. Never bought, but came close a couple of times. Tons a fun!!!! Mark At 08:39 PM 2/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: IMHO, I wouldn't include "ceramic insert strippers" in that list. To saythey're akin to foam grips and single-foot guides is sorta like sayingplaying "Dead Ants" with Aussie Sailors is akin to a kid's game of "squattag". An old U.S soldier boy found out...they ain't related. :>))Ed ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:51 PMSubject: Re: Staining Bamboo Here's one more thing to add to the foam grip, single foot guide, and ceramic insert stripper list: Gudebrod metallic thread from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Feb 22 07:29:47 2002 g1MDTk822610 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:29:46 -0600 id ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:22:34 -0500 id D56AMLZQ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:22:19 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Brian, I thought it was DBS (Dutch Butt Syndrome). ;^) Yep, I'm Dutch, so I can say it. BTW, Did you hear how copper wire was invented? Two Dutchmen arguing over a penny. Cha-ching (best I could do for arim- shot) "Brian D. Creek" wrote: Around here they call it DBD. Brian----- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:01 AMSubject: Re: Nick, A swelled butt in a bamboo rod is just what you mightthink from the descriptive title. A few inches above thecork, the bamboo portion of the rod shows a significantlysteep increase in diameter. An increase in diameter ofabout .1" over a distance of 2" would be a dramaticswell. Harry nicholas.kingston@ipb.ie wrote: From: "Kingston, Nicholas" Subject: Swelled Butt Hi all, this might seem like a silly question (I'm new)but can someone explain to me what a swelled butt is? ThanksNick -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from edriddle@mindspring.com Fri Feb 22 08:18:47 2002 Received: from g1MEIk823842 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:18:46 From: "Ed Riddle" Subject: prints Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part message Is this the one? Ed http://tlzietakrodco.freeyellow.com/taylorprints.htm ---- application/octet-stream; name="Arthur Taylor.url" Content-Transfer- Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Arthur Taylor.url"[DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://tlzietakrodco.freeyellow.com/taylorprints.htm[InternetShortcut]URL=http://tlzietakrodco.freeyellow.com/taylorprints.htmModified=E096D3D5ABBBC10146 ------ g1MESA824278 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 (Mercury/32 v3.30) ID MO002F08; 22 Feb 02 08:32:56 -0600 Received: from spooler by aapg.org (Mercury/32 v3.30); 22 Feb 02 08:31:53 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date:Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:27:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? From: Message-ID: GBuckley@aapg.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN And,Applewood Books just gave me the green light to do the PDF of Idyl as it's inthe public domain as well. This just keeps getting better and better. >Fromedriddle@mindspring.com Fri Feb 22 08:36:55 2002 Received: from g1MEas824811 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:36:54 09:36:50 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Ed Riddle" 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Sorry folks for letting thatemail go out before ditching the attachment. I only meant to include the urlwithin the message . Hope this didn't cause anyone a problem. Ed >From References: Subject: Re: tung oil finish- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Jeff, Excellent update.Course, if a person still likes the properties of a poly finish, you can avoidthe high gloss by using a semi-gloss, or even a satin finish. As to the tung oilfinish not offering much moisture protection, that would be a claim thatapplies to pure tung oil. But, I think most of us don't use the pure stuff.Usually, when you buy commercial preparations called "tung oil, wiping- finish,"they are actually finishes that have been partially polymerized and includeurethanes and/or other resins. Nothing wrong with that, especially as thepure tung oil takes a long, long time to dry (and it never really cures).Another tung oil based finish that can be brushed, dipped or rubbed would beWaterlox. You can get it directly from their website, and it comes either in astandard sort of gloss or a satin. I used the satin on my cherry floors acouple years ago, and it really is fabulous stuff. I've also used it for creatingthe oil-rubbed finish on a bunch of gunstocks, and it sure beats the time-honored English, linseed crap. (No interest in product or company.) Cheers,Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Schaeffer" Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: Re: tung oil finish- a happyending (for now) Several nights ago I fired off a a question regarding what wrap varnish touse over a Tung oil finish.It was a panic situation, but I got immediate responses from so many helpful people that it would be impossible to thank each one of you. This is a great list, with great people. There isn't a whole lot in the archives on Tung oil, so here is what Ilearned: Why did I consider tung oil? Well, I made my dad a Payne 98 for Christmas,and it turned out extremely well. I used a polyurethane finish. Then we went fishing. About 10 o'clock the sun came out, and you could see that rodreflect light 100 yards away. It looked like a lighthouse. I vowed neveragain to make a rod with a high gloss finish. I decided to try tung on a few rods because I was looking for something that would look good as a mattefinish. If you finish with Tung oil, your guide wraps can be finished with flex-coat (let's not start that thread again),Shellac, and some polyurethanes (but not Varmor R-10). Not all polyurethanes will stick. But the solution I chose was Man O War spar varnish, which istung oil based. It worked fine. I have found that Tung oil is a finish used by few rodmakers, and there isno consensus on its utility as a finish. It is non-toxic, goes on and works easily, and you do not need a dip tank. I used pure tung, and put on about15 extremely thin coats. I put some on my hand, rubbed the blank down,andthen wiped it off completely with a cloth. No buffing or heat friction atall. Just wipe. For a while I thought that I wasn't leaving any finish onthe rod. I let each coat dry for at least 24 hours. After about 8-10 coats, it build up a very handsome semi-gloss finish that seems hard as glass- Ican not scratch it with my fingernail. I had no trouble getting it to dry.Afterward I let the blank hang for several weeks before wrapping. There are two issues with Tung oil that you need to be aware of. The firstis that it has no gap filling properties. Scratches, chatter marks, and low spots will stick out like a sore thumb. Consequently your sanding has to be perfect, and you need to go to a very fine grit before you get even close to the power fibers. You can't hide anything. You can't hide much with varnish, but even the slightest blemish will be visible with Tung. The second issue is water resistance. Here there is no consensus. Many list members contacted me to warn that Tung oil will allow moisture to creep into the rod. Other people, including a chemist who works for a major paintcompany, told me that it is an excellent moisture barrier and they often use it in wet environments. Again opinions were divided and strong. Those fewrodmakers that used Tung seemed to like it a lot, and I have been contacted the results. Bottom line is that I did several blanks with Tung oil, and will let youknow how well it lasts, and what happens to the rods as I use them. But itsure looks pretty. For those who want a matte finish and do not care forgrand experiments, you may want to consider spar varnish, which can bedulled by rubbing it down with a fine abrasive. That will be my approach for the next batch of rods. Thanks again to all those who shared their knowledge. Jeff Schaeffer from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Feb 22 10:01:25 2002 g1MG1O829548 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:01:24 -0600 id ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:54:09 -0500 id D56AML9Z; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:54:00 -0500 Subject: Amateur Rodmaking??????? Hey all, I saw this book online, written by Perry D. Fraser. Can anyone give meany info on the book? -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 - ----- email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Feb 22 10:14:31 2002 Received: from imo- g1MGEU800291 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 4.18e.3c2902b (15905) for MAILINID98-0222111419; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:14:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Feb KyleDruey@aol.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN HiTim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer,Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size they sell is in quartsizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can call them and they willsend you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that they have a two quartminimum. You can find information on how to contact them from theRodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (notBingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick upsome more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time.Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Feb 22 10:23:29 2002 g1MGNS801017 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:23:28 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:23:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon FILETIME=[41F20E40:01C1BBBD] Kyle/Tim, Most rodmakers use Epon resin 828. The Bingham Projects kit contains 826 resin. This is fine, many have used it. But it does require heat setting after glue-up. A problem if you build nodeless without a long oven. Just another step if you have an oven already. Bill At 11:14 AM 2/22/2002 -0500, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size they sell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can call them and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that they have a two quart minimum. You can find information on how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers of Epon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick upsome more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time.Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Fri Feb 22 11:00:04 2002 g1MH03803521 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:00:03 -0600 g1MH03n17414 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:00:03 -0600 M2002022211000221513 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:00:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:23:26 -0500 Bill Hoy wrote: Kyle/Tim, Most rodmakers use Epon resin 828. The Bingham Projects kit contains826 resin. This is fine, many have used it. But it does require heat setting after glue-up. A problem if you build nodeless without a long oven. Just another step if you have an oven already. Bill I get epon resin 812 substitute at work. This requires a 55 degree centigrade cure. Do you know if rodmakers or archers have used this stuff? -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Feb 22 11:05:09 2002 g1MH58804076 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:05:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon In a message dated 2/22/02 10:15:11 AM Central Standard Time, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size they sell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can call them and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that they have a two quart minimum. You can find information on how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers of Epon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle I tried to talk Russ Gooding of Golden Witch into stocking Epon as he does other adhesives, so far without success. Russ are you listening? Mark Cole In a message dated2/22/02 10:15:11 AM Central Standard Time, KyleDruey@aol.com writes: Hi Tim, size they sell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. information on how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under thesuppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. containers of Epon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find theirsite. Best, Kyle I tried to talk Russ Gooding of Golden Witch into stocking Epon as hedoes other adhesives, so far without success. Russ are you listening? Mark Cole from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Feb 22 11:33:25 2002 g1MHXO805828 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:33:24 -0600 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:33:09 -0500 MAILINID410-0222123309; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:33:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon Bill, good point. from what I understand the primary difference between the828 and 826 is that the 826 is less viscous. I did have to heat cure the 826 Another point found in the archives, worth repeating, is that the Epon can bewiped off before heat treating, making clean up off the blanks very easy. You let the Epon setup overnight after binding, take the binding off the rod,then wipe down the blanks with white vinegar. This will leave a very thin filmon the freshly glued blanks. Bind the blanks again, then heat treat to curethe Epon. After the blanks cool all that is required is some light sanding toremove the remaining Epon. On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:23:26 -0500 Bill Hoy wrote: Kyle/Tim, Most rodmakers use Epon resin 828. The Bingham Projects kit contains826 resin. This is fine, many have used it. But it does require heat setting after glue-up. A problem if you build nodeless without a long oven. Just another step if you have an oven already. Bill from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 22 11:35:23 2002 g1MHZN806048 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:35:23 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:36:48 -0800 Subject: Re: Epon Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a tad different from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works, but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer,Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size they sell is in quartsizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can call them and they willsend you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that they have a two quartminimum. You can find information on how to contact them from theRodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (notBingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick upsome more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time.Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from caneman@clnk.com Fri Feb 22 11:37:57 2002 g1MHbv806343 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:37:57 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Epon Still don't see what you guys have against URAC. Nothing like that sweettaste of formaldehyde in the back of your throat after glue-up! *S* R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember the details, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a tad different from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works, but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. Theyhave a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers of Epon Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern StandardTime, "Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Feb 22 11:38:35 2002 g1MHcY806462 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:38:34 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:38:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon FILETIME=[BFC8F9F0:01C1BBC7] I don't see 812 on the Epon website. But you could go to http://www.resins- versatics.com/resins/resins.nsf/LinkPage/EPON_Liquid_Blends to check it out. bill At 11:00 AM 2/22/2002 -0600, Grayson Davis wrote: On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:23:26 -0500 Bill Hoywrote: Kyle/Tim, Most rodmakers use Epon resin 828. The Bingham Projects kit contains826resin. This is fine, many have used it. But it does require heat settingafter glue-up. A problem if you build nodeless without a long oven. Justanother step if you have an oven already. Bill I get epon resin 812 substitute at work. This requires a55 degree centigrade cure. Do you know if rodmakers orarchers have used this stuff? -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Feb 22 11:39:21 2002 g1MHdK806523 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:39:20 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:39:12 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:messageSubject: RE: tung oil finish- a happy ending (for now) Thread-Topic: tung oil finish- a happy ending (for now)Thread-Index: AcG7RWl3rHcH+yctEda4IwBglOouXwAf3Y3A FILETIME=[D74BCE40:01C1BBC7] g1MHdK806527 Jeff - One other take on the issue of water resistance. I'm not an oldtimer (made18 rods or so), so this is just one guy's opinion, but I'm convinced that waterresistance in varnish is not important, for two reasons. First, I'm convincedthat properly heat-treated bamboo is altered in such a way that it absorbslittle water, and is not significantly affected by what little is absorbed.Second, I believe any rod will gradually absorb or lose water in response tothe humidity of its environment until it reaches equilibrium no matter whatvarnish is used. Most of the rods varnished with "waterproof" varnish aren'tvarnished under the cork, for example, and the glue used on the cork is notnecessarily a waterproof barrier. Even more to the point, if heat-treatedbamboo gets limp when wet, virtually everyone's fishing rod would have beenlimp in the Midwest and South during the pre-air-conditioning era by themiddle of summer, and rod-heating before going fishing would have become acom!monplace practice, but that is not what happened. People tell anecdotes about finding old rods, dark enough to look heat- treated, that were limp as noodles until they dried them out. These rods maynot have been heat treated adequately in the first place, and the darknesscould be due simply to age (of the bamboo and/or the varnish). All of therecent empirical testing I have seen makes it clear that heat treated bamboodoes not absorb much water and does not get limp when wet. I've not used much tung oil, though I may, but I think the water resistanceissue is a moot point for anyone who heat treats the bamboo adequately. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tung oil finish- a happy ending (for now) Several nights ago I fired off a a question regarding what wrap varnish touse over a Tung oil finish.It was a panic situation, but I got immediate responses from so many helpfulpeople that it would be impossible to thank each one of you. This is a greatlist, with great people. There isn't a whole lot in the archives on Tung oil, so here is what Ilearned: Why did I consider tung oil? Well, I made my dad a Payne 98 for Christmas,and it turned out extremely well. I used a polyurethane finish. Then we wentfishing. About 10 o'clock the sun came out, and you could see that rodreflect light 100 yards away. It looked like a lighthouse. I vowed neveragain to make a rod with a high gloss finish. I decided to try tung on a fewrods because I was looking for something that would look good as a mattefinish. If you finish with Tung oil, your guide wraps can be finished with flex- coat(let's not start that thread again),Shellac, and some polyurethanes (but not Varmor R-10). Not allpolyurethaneswill stick. But the solution I chose was Man O War spar varnish, which istung oil based. It worked fine. I have found that Tung oil is a finish used by few rodmakers, and there isno consensus on its utility as a finish. It is non-toxic, goes on and workseasily, and you do not need a dip tank. I used pure tung, and put on about15 extremely thin coats. I put some on my hand, rubbed the blank down, andthen wiped it off completely with a cloth. No buffing or heat friction atall. Just wipe. For a while I thought that I wasn't leaving any finish onthe rod. I let each coat dry for at least 24 hours. After about 8-10 coats,it build up a very handsome semi-gloss finish that seems hard as glass- Ican not scratch it with my fingernail. I had no trouble getting it to dry.Afterward I let the blank hang for several weeks before wrapping. There are two issues with Tung oil that you need to be aware of. The firstis that it has no gap filling properties. Scratches, chatter marks, and lowspots will stick out like a sore thumb. Consequently your sanding has to beperfect, and you need to go to a very fine grit before you get even close tothe power fibers. You can't hide anything. You can't hide much with varnish,but even the slightest blemish will be visible with Tung. The second issue is water resistance. Here there is no consensus. Many listmembers contacted me to warn that Tung oil will allow moisture to creep intothe rod. Other people, including a chemist who works for a major paintcompany, told me that it is an excellent moisture barrier and they often useit in wet environments. Again opinions were divided and strong. Those fewrodmakers that used Tung seemed to like it a lot, and I have been contacted results. Bottom line is that I did several blanks with Tung oil, and will let youknow how well it lasts, and what happens to the rods as I use them. But itsure looks pretty. For those who want a matte finish and do not care forgrand experiments, you may want to consider spar varnish, which can bedulled by rubbing it down with a fine abrasive. That will be my approach forthe next batch of rods. Thanks again to all those who shared their knowledge. Jeff Schaeffer from darrell@vFish.net Fri Feb 22 12:09:02 2002 g1MI91808445 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:09:01 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:55:51 -0600 Subject: RE: Out of print rod books? - copyright issues I think the year 1978 is important as the copyright laws changed. Here's thelink http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html#wccc If I understand it correctly, literary works copyrighted pre-1978 have avalid copyright for 28 years unless the copyright is extended. Darrell -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? - copyright issues Stuart, "Classic Rods and Rodmakers" is copyrighted by Marty Keane and thatcopyright passes to his heirs for 70 years after his death. As hesporadically mentions a second printing, I doubt that he would want toallow his book to be published on the 'net. This is a straightforward example, a more complex situation Art Portalluded to in a previous email. I wanted to extract the Kreider tapers from the Kreider book and post them on my website, so I asked Dick Spurrif he knew the holder of the copyright. He claimed that he was the ownerof the copyright and I couldn't do an extract ("extracts" are apermissible exemption to copyright, but must meet certain criteria).Some simple investigation proved that the son of Kreider was, in fact,the owner of the copyright, but since I couldn't locate him to securehis permission, I canned the idea. In honor of the angling writers that have contributed so much to thesport, I am very careful in my extracts, as we should all be. And withextracts I will be content for the present. While it is possible to scanin and upload an entire volume (e.g., Well's book), the pleasure ofbrowsing the pages is lost in an electronic format; and I think most ofus would find it tedious to print out a 400 page work (imagine howtedious it would be to scan it in). Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Stuart Moultrie wrote: Hi Gerald, what about classic rods and rodmakers? I'm sure a lot of us cannot afford to buy a copy of that anymore...... I have never actually read it or seen it so I do not know if it is really worth it, what do the rest of you think of this one? Stuart from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Fri Feb 22 12:09:58 2002 be forged)) g1MI9w808559 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:09:58 -0600 id ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:05:55 -0800 Subject: bob nunley this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. He bob, I've got a question I'd like to ask you about quad ferrulesdirectly, only I've dumped your e-mail address. Please reply if you see this. Thanks, chris CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} He bob, I've got a question I'd like to ask youabout quad ferrules directly, only I've dumped your e-mail =address. Please reply if you see =this. Thanks, chris from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Feb 22 12:28:15 2002 g1MISF809827 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:28:15 -0600 g1MIRSE04139; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:27:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it.It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. So far, noproblems.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a tad different from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works, but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from themanufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (notBingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern StandardTime, "Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick upsome more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time.Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Fri Feb 22 13:18:06 2002 g1MJI5813090 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:05 -0600 helo=default) id 16eLCh-0002Yo-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:17:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, though it isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities of the Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought a largequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardening agent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on the resin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time. The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, you cheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it.It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this is departmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. So far, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember the details, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a tad different from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works, but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern StandardTime, "Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Feb 22 13:47:26 2002 g1MJlP814865 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:47:25 -0600 g1MJlN824250 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:47:24 -0600 Subject: Epon Never said I was a good at typing. A slip of thefinger. Yes it is detrimental.Take note of one word below.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com I am assuming "departmental" is "detrimental", andlight heat (you can useheat from lightbulb-slower the better) should notaffect anything from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Feb 22 13:52:25 2002 g1MJqO815304 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:52:24 -0600 g1MJqL825594; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:52:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon Yes it is a Versamid product , Thanks for the info.I am sure that I don't get it near 100*F, will not warm the hardener overroomtemperature.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jojo DeLancier wrote: The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon-- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from gjm80301@yahoo.com Fri Feb 22 14:09:15 2002 g1MK9E816333 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:09:14 -0600 22 Feb 2002 12:09:08 PST Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny"on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decidednot to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old. I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is prettyconsistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, thoughit isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities ofthe Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought alargequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardeningagent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on theresin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time.The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, youcheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. Sofar, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a taddifferent from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works,but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallestsize theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other thanthat theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company outof Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Feb 22 14:36:42 2002 g1MKaf818122 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:36:41 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:36:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life FILETIME=[A1FD1230:01C1BBE0] g1MKag818123 It lasts longer at moderately high temperatures... above room temp. bill At 12:09 PM 2/22/2002 -0800, Jerry Madigan wrote: Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny"on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decidednot to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old.I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is prettyconsistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, thoughit isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities ofthe Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought alargequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardeningagent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on theresin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time.The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, youcheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. Sofar, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a taddifferent from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works,but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallestsize theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other thanthat theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company outof Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Feb 22 14:37:28 2002 g1MKbR818254 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:37:27 -0600 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:37:17 -0500 MAILINID84-0222153717; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:37:17 -0500 Subject: UV Lights List, There was some discussion not to long ago about how UV lighting can speedup the cure time for varnish. I was at HD the other evening and saw a blackfluorescent light, and a light that is for indoor plants (the legal kind) andclaims to have a wide spectrum. Are any of these types of lights within thecorrect UV spectrum to be of any benefit for curing varnish? What is theman from Buffalo doing with his setup? I believe the plant lights were around $4 a pop for 48"/40W bulbs, and the"black light" was around $13 for the same. Not sure if this "black light" istrue UV or just a regular fluorescent light with black glass. Thanks, Kyle from luu_andrew@hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 14:42:53 2002 g1MKgq818822 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:42:52 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:42:47 -0800 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:42:46 GMT Subject: Wayne's book and two videos up for grab FILETIME=[7C581E70:01C1BBE1] Hello Everyone, The tools I have listed for sale are all sold and will be shipped out next week. Thank you all for your inquiries. Also, I still have two videos and one book I bought from Wayne when I first started and I am wondering if any new rodbuilders would like to buy it. I don't remember how much I got them for, probably $80?. My paypal account is I am offer it for $55+5 shipping. Please let me know (off the list, of course)if you are interested and if you think the price is too high,please shoot me an offer. Thanks again and good luck to you all in rodbuilding. Best regards, Andrew. _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from dybam@oct.net Fri Feb 22 14:48:39 2002 g1MKmd819343 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:48:39 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life [4000080e]. Communications, Inc. I called the manufacturer of Epon and asked them about the shelf life ofEpon, they said, one year only. Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny"on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decidednot to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old.I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is prettyconsistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, thoughit isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities ofthe Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought alargequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardeningagent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on theresin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time.The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, youcheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. Sofar, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a taddifferent from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works,but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallestsize theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other thanthat theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company outof Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Fri Feb 22 15:07:27 2002 g1ML7Q820576 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:07:26 -0600 22 Feb 2002 13:07:26 PST Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life from the list, circa 1999, reply from Bill Fink aboutEpon: To the List,Epon experience; Made my first Epon rods in the late60's. Have made a few each year since then. Have usednothing else. All these rods are still fishing asvigorously as I can manage. I exhausted my first 2quarts of Epon/hardener in the early 80's. Than bought2 new quarts which are now winding down. I use nospecial storage provisions. I do gently warm the eponjugs before using. These comments strictly apply ONLYto Epon 828 and Hardener 140 or V40 bought from theauthorized distributor Miller Stephenson. There arelots ofepoxy formulations out there. This one workswell. A related bit of info which I've told before:well over 10 years ago I repaired a grease-soakedwooden steak knife handle using Epon. This knifehas been through the dish washer cycle a couple oftimes a week since then. Still intact. When that knife comes apart I'll look for another adhesive. --- Mark Dyba wrote: I called the manufacturer of Epon and asked themabout the shelf life ofEpon, they said, one year only. Mark----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:09 PMSubject: Re: Epon - shelf life Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny" on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decided not to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old. I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is pretty consistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, though it isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and the resultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities of the Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought a largequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardening agent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on the resin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time. The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, you cheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them. Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. So far, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a tad different from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works, but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest size theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than that theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Feb 22 15:08:25 2002 g1ML8O820698 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:08:24 -0600 Subject: Epon To the List,A couple of points were brought up recently about Epon that I would =like to comment on. Epon is a Shell Chemical product, I believe. The =name Versimid and their number V40 seems to have disappeared a long time=ago. Even tho Epon has a very long shelf life I would beware of any =products labeled Versimid.And as to ageing of the clear resin 828, the cloudy appearance with =time is harmless and can be removed by gentle warming. After a really =long time, like 15 years the resin's viscosity gets to the point where =pouring is difficult. That's when I reorder from Miller Stephenson. = To the List, = about Epon that I would like to comment on. Epon is a Shell Chemical = believe. The name Versimid and their number V40 seems to have = time ago. Even tho Epon has a very long shelf life I would beware of any = products labeled Versimid. = warming. After a really long time, like 15 years the resin's viscosity = from Grnmtrds@aol.com Fri Feb 22 15:23:17 2002 g1MLNG821851 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:23:16 -0600 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:23:01 -0500 Subject: game all, If any body deserved a win The Canadian women did.Goaltending was better,U.S. was out skated and in general, the Canadianwomen wanted it more than the U.S. girls. They also most of the time with one person down. Congratulations Canada! Jim/Vermont from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 22 15:28:03 2002 g1MLS2822210 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:28:02 -0600 (authenticated) Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:29:02 -0800 Subject: Re: Epon Umm, Bob... I think you solved the riddle. Besides, URAC makes your hair fall out, andEpon grows hair. Anybody can tell that from looking at you and me. Harry Bob Nunley wrote: Still don't see what you guys have against URAC. Nothing like that sweettaste of formaldehyde in the back of your throat after glue-up! -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 22 15:33:52 2002 g1MLXj822684 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:33:50 -0600 22 Feb 2002 16:33:38 -0500 Subject: RE: UV Lights, Bob's reply HI Kyle:The "young" man from Buffalo use that very same black tube and a bulb fromthe same store in tandem. I do not know much about how they work, but Iknowthat they help the PU and spar varnishes I have tried set up very fast. Therods get dipped and put away (the temp in the cabinet is about 100-104*)fora day. Then I swap the bulb for the black light bulb, and I add the blacklight tube as well. With the bl;ack lights it takes 24-48 hours for apolishable finish (spar). PU takes a while longer, but works well.Are there negative effects? Will the finish last a long time? I do not know,but it looks darn good. I have been doing this since June when John Z spoketo use at Grayling.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: UV Lights List, There was some discussion not to long ago about how UV lighting canspeed up the cure time for varnish. I was at HD the other eveningand saw a black fluorescent light, and a light that is for indoorplants (the legal kind) and claims to have a wide spectrum. Areany of these types of lights within the correct UV spectrum to beof any benefit for curing varnish? What is the man from Buffalodoing with his setup? I believe the plant lights were around $4 a pop for 48"/40W bulbs,and the "black light" was around $13 for the same. Not sure ifthis "black light" is true UV or just a regular fluorescent lightwith black glass. Thanks, Kyle from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Fri Feb 22 15:48:16 2002 g1MLmF823611 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:48:15 -0600 g1MLmD15014882 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:48:13 -0600 Subject: Epon Cost If some has ordered a small quantity of Epon 828 lately, could you pleaseemail me off list the price and contact. Thanks, Darrin Curtis from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Feb 22 15:49:23 2002 g1MLnN823781 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:49:23 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:49:21 +0000 Mark Ford Subject: UK Rodmakers Meeting 2002 All,After the success of last years ( first ever ) UK Rodmakers meetinganother is currently being planned for early November this year.Should any of you be potential attendees, please contact either myselfor Mark off the list. Many thanks........Paul from rmoon@ida.net Fri Feb 22 16:16:33 2002 g1MMGW825646 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:16:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon Yeeeeaaaahhh!!!!!!Ralph Bob Nunley wrote: Still don't see what you guys have against URAC. Nothing like that sweettaste of formaldehyde in the back of your throat after glue-up! *S* R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 11:35 AMSubject: Re: Epon Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember the details, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a tad different from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works, but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest sizetheysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. You can callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other than thattheyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how to contactthem from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out of Utah. Theyhave a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ounce containers ofEpon Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern StandardTime, "Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rmoon@ida.net Fri Feb 22 16:16:44 2002 g1MMGh825716 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:16:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon However Bill, the 826 has the property of curing in an hour or two with heat.How about gluing up before lunch and cleani8ng up the rod after lunch? Ralph Bill Hoy wrote: Kyle/Tim, Most rodmakers use Epon resin 828. The Bingham Projects kit contains826resin. This is fine, many have used it. But it does require heat settingafter glue-up. A problem if you build nodeless without a long oven. Justanother step if you have an oven already. Bill At 11:14 AM 2/22/2002 -0500, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from themanufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallest sizethey sell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan call them and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but otherthanthat they have a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects (notBingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company out ofUtah. They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers of Epon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find theirsite. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need to pick upsome more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at this time.Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim from aport@si.rr.com Fri Feb 22 16:32:02 2002 g1MMW1826888 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:32:01 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:31:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon Bob,You know, when I was a bit younger my in-laws bought an old farmhouse inMaine and it came with a big barn that was full of hay that must have beensitting in that loft for 20 years or more. We had to pitch that hay out forthe better part of a summer and I never could use URAC after that withoutbeing reminded of that barn's sickly-sweet aroma. And no, it wasn't a"wonderful trip down Memory Lane".*G*Art from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Feb 22 16:34:43 2002 g1MMYf827229 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:34:42 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Rodmakers Subject: Re: Out of print rod books? - copyright issues Darrell, IMHO, there are too many gotcha's in the law to act upon a blanket statement such as 28 years. For example, the work could be renewed for a subsequent 28 years... but that might be 47 more years depending on when it was first copyrighted. The total span of a pre-1978 copyright might be 95 years. I think it is best to make no assumptions about availability in the public domain. We certainly don't want to shortchange the artist or their heirs. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Darrell Lee wrote: I think the year 1978 is important as the copyright laws changed. Here'sthelink http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html#wccc If I understand it correctly, literary works copyrighted pre-1978 have avalid copyright for 28 years unless the copyright is extended. Darrell from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 17:19:33 2002 g1MNJW829033 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:19:32 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:19:19 -0800 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:19:19 GMT Subject: Re: Epon FILETIME=[5A97AB50:01C1BBF7] Bob, the fact that I had a rod failure with the URAC. After spending about 80hours on a rod with mirror image tips I had the client return the rod due to adelamination of one of the tips. I'd kept the URAC longer then I should have,about one year at room temp and this ended up leading to the failure. It wasmy own fault for using the old glue and I'm well aware of the fact that if I'dof stored it in the refrig like I should have I probably wouldn't be telling thisstory. Now that I've started using the Epon I wonder why I didn't start usingit sooner then I did. I work slowly and with the Epon, I can bind up two tips,clean up the bound sections with vinegar, clean my binder, eat lunch, andthen still have time to straighten the sections to near poker straight. Withthe URAC I was always in a rush and I never did get my rods straight andended up spending far to long straightening the blanks. I also don't!like using any more heat then needed for straightening which is what always yourself who makes a living at rodmaking, you may have the binding andstraightening down to a science but I like the hour and a half extra that I getwith Epon for the straightening and it's a better choice for me. The only like that sweet glue-up! *S* remember the tad different works, but is a from the smallest size they You can call other than that they to contact them Bingham Projects (not out of Utah. They containers of Epon Eastern Standard Time, works. I'll need to pick source locally at this finding it? Join the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 17:51:48 2002 g1MNpk800224 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:51:46 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:51:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes FILETIME=[DDDC1CE0:01C1BBFB] Everyone one the list seems to have a love/hate relationship with URAC andEpon.I wish more people tried Nyatex. It is SO easy to work with. I do not thinkit even has a shelf life.You have a couple of hours to get things bound and straight before there iseven a hint of hardening.Let it cure for 24 hours, then remove the binding string, and heat set it.Saves hours of time sanding off the string, and your blanks are perfectlydry.And it does not smell as bad as some of the other glues I have messed with.If you decide to order some, do it by phone and tell them you are makingbamboo fly rods. They have 1 qt. cans ready to go. No financial interest, of course. Jeff Schaeffer Nyatex2112 Industrial Howell, Mi 48843517 - 546 - 4046 from harms1@pa.net Fri Feb 22 18:07:35 2002 g1N07Y800869 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:07:34 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life We know that we can extend the shelf-life of Urac by a few months if it isstashed in the 'fridge. Does anyone know if Epon can benefit from the sametreatment? Some of you have said that Epon lasts many years anyhow, butothers have said "it ain't so." cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny"on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decidednot to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old.I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is prettyconsistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, thoughit isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities ofthe Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought alargequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardeningagent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on theresin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time.The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, youcheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. Sofar, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a taddifferent from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works,but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallestsize theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other thanthat theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company outof Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Fri Feb 22 18:26:38 2002 g1N0Qb801425 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:26:37 -0600 helo=default) id 16eQ1I-0007yY-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:26:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon Bill, Yeah, kinda' like honey crystallizes. It won't hurt the hardener to heat it,per se, it's just that it shouldn't be heated prior to mixing. One reasonthe hardener in particular turns darker is due to reaction with theatmosphere. M-D JoJo, I have a quart of each that I have yet to usebut as it turns out, when stored at lower than 70 F ittends to turn dark. I was told by their tech rep thatI merely had to heat it up to approximately 130 F toget rid of the crystallization. I took that to meanboth resin and hardner, since both are quite a bitdarker than when I received them. Bill Walters --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 northe 826, though it isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatlyenhanced, and the resultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even aproblem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for smallquantities of the Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, butthey bought a largequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never thehardening agent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimentaleffect on the resin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten theworking time. The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buythe quarts, you cheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now.;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamidproduct, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them. Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would liketo know. So far, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carryis just a tad different from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use.It still works, but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from themanufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem isthat the smallest size theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 aftershipping. You can callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample,but other than that theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find informationon how to contact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the supplierslisting. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter'ssupply company out of Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offertwo 8 ounce containers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you willfind their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Fri Feb 22 18:29:55 2002 g1N0Ts801726 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:29:54 -0600 helo=default) id 16eQ4W-00007R-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:29:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life Jerry, As Bill Walters pointed out, this is probably due to your storageconditions. It would be best to store it at 100Ÿ, but that isn't usuallyvery practical. They routinely ship the product at 185Ÿ, without anyproblems. In this case heat is a good thing. M-D Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny"on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decidednot to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old.I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is prettyconsistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, thoughit isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities ofthe Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought alargequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardeningagent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on theresin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time.The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, youcheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. Sofar, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a taddifferent from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works,but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallestsize theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other thanthat theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company outof Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Fri Feb 22 18:32:53 2002 g1N0Wp801986 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:32:51 -0600 helo=default) id 16eQ7N-0007Qu-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:32:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life Whomever you spoke with is incorrect, or is trying to avoid some potentialliability. Got to the Versatics web site and get the info, or have them sendyou all the product literature with specs, etc. M-D I called the manufacturer of Epon and asked them about the shelf life ofEpon, they said, one year only. Mark ----- Original Message -----From: Jerry Madigan Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:09 PMSubject: Re: Epon - shelf life Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny"on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decidednot to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old.I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is prettyconsistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, thoughit isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities ofthe Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought alargequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardeningagent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on theresin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time.The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, youcheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. Sofar, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a taddifferent from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works,but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallestsize theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other thanthat theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company outof Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 22 18:50:20 2002 g1N0oJ802673 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:50:19 -0600 (authenticated) for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:51:47 -0800 Subject: Persistent problem Friends, I've got one that has me stumped, and coulduse a little input. Over the last few rods I havefound it extremely difficult to get correct angleson my strips. No matter what I do, mymeasurements are not equal, and it winds up takingme an hour or more per strip to plane to finaldimensions. After every three of four passes orthe plane, I stop to measure and my dimensions areoff of equilateral by as much as .010". So Icorrect the angles, up and down the strip, andstart again. Same problem, over and over on everystrip.Some of you may remember that I thought I hadthis problem solved when I discovered some crudunder the front foot of my plane. Correcting thathas not proved to be the answer. I have three theories. Tell me if any ofthese make sense. First, my plane(s) could be allmessed up. I don't think so, cause I've checkedand triple-checked them -- all of them. Second,my forms could be screwed up. Perhaps the lasttime I tuned them something went haywire. Come tothink of it, that's about when the problemstarted. Other than checking to see that theyare flat (they are), how would one go aboutchecking the angles in the groove? Third, thestrips I just finished have a small twist at oneof the nodes. Is it possible that twist causesthe strips to cant in the groove of the form, somuch so that the angles get messed up in a hurry.I doubt it, because when I straighten the twistand resume planing, the problem rears its uglyhead again. Thanks for the input. This one has me pullingout my hair, so frustrated that rodmaking hasn'tbeen much fun lately. I hate to ask, but I'm atmy wit's end. Best,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Fri Feb 22 18:50:30 2002 g1N0oT802680 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:50:29 -0600 helo=default) id 16eQOS-0002kl-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:50:29 -0500 Subject: FOR ALAN GROMBACHER I got this from the last three posts I made to the List. Just wanted to letyou know, in case you have another e-mail address with which you aresubscribed. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Undeliverable mail Your message was not delivered to the following recipients: GROMBACHERA@phibred.com: 554 delivery error: dd This user doesn't have a phibred.com account (GROMBACHERA@phibred.com) - mhub15.email.dupont.com from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Feb 22 18:51:17 2002 g1N0pG802920 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:51:16 -0600 (authenticated) for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:52:45 -0800 Subject: Persistent problem Friends, I've got one that has me stumped, and coulduse a little input. Over the last few rods I havefound it extremely difficult to get correct angleson my strips. No matter what I do, mymeasurements are not equal, and it winds up takingme an hour or more per strip to plane to finaldimensions. After every three of four passes orthe plane, I stop to measure and my dimensions areoff of equilateral by as much as .010". So Icorrect the angles, up and down the strip, andstart again. Same problem, over and over on everystrip.Some of you may remember that I thought I hadthis problem solved when I discovered some crudunder the front foot of my plane. Correcting thathas not proved to be the answer. I have three theories. Tell me if any ofthese make sense. First, my plane(s) could be allmessed up. I don't think so, cause I've checkedand triple-checked them -- all of them. I've hada my wife's make-up mirror out in the shop, makingsure I'm holding the plane level, and I'm doingokay there. Second, my forms could be screwedup. Perhaps the last time I tuned them somethingwent haywire. Come to think of it, that's aboutwhen the problem started. Other than checkingto see that they are flat (they are), how wouldone go about checking the angles in the groove?Third, the strips I just finished have a smalltwist at one of the nodes. Is it possible thattwist causes the strips to cant in the groove ofthe form, so much so that the angles get messed upin a hurry. I doubt it, because when I straightenthe twist and resume planing, the problem rearsits ugly head again. Thanks for the input. This one has me pullingout my hair, so frustrated that rodmaking hasn'tbeen much fun lately. I hate to ask, but I'm atmy wit's end. Best,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 22 19:08:29 2002 g1N18S803769 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:08:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Persistent problem Harry - Is this happening with both butt and tip strips? Both sides of the form? from jerryy@webtv.net Fri Feb 22 19:09:48 2002 g1N19l803967 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:09:47 -0600 by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:09:46 -0800 2117.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA26861; ETAtAhQY+u8woZEMy/v58kzIRvneVWCBOwIVAMwFqc66rxXUx2S9rLkBFHofzw7O Subject: Epon After sitting on the shelf for a couple of years and it started to lookthick and cloudy I put both bottles in the microwave for 5 seconds.Works like brand new, but be careful, don't try cooking it. Jerry Young from tsimmons78@home.com Fri Feb 22 19:34:37 2002 g1N1YZ804864 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:34:36 -0600 Subject: unscribe rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu unscribe rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Feb 22 19:42:54 2002 g1N1gr805270 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:42:53 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: OT -- Looking for work All, Last year I was among the many impacted by the changing economy inthe form of a "Reduction in Force". Normally, I would not mention such a matter on this forum, but perhaps there is someone out there who knows of an open Software Project Manager position. At this point, location is not relevant. Please contact me off-list if you should have any leads, I would be deeply grateful. Thanks.-- Best regards, Reed rcurry@ttlc.net > from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.caFri Feb 22 19:57:22 2002 Received: from mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) 22:00:59 -0500 From: Shawn Pineo Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods X- Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X- Subject: Re: OT -- Looking for work bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Reed, Sorry to hear about your lay off. Halifax is quickly developing in thetech industry, come on up and join me, I need some rod building comrades, I'mall alone up here! Seriously, I could take a look around for you here if you like,I've included the link for the Halifax Daily News as well, there might be someinfo in the classifieds?? Here it comes...http://www.canada.com/halifax/dailynews Shawn Reed Curry wrote: All,Last year I was among the many impacted by the changing economy in theform of a "Reduction in Force". Normally, I would not mention such amatter on this forum, but perhaps there is someone out there who knowsof an open Software Project Manager position. At this point, location isnot relevant. Please contact me off-list if you should have any leads, Iwould be deeply grateful. Thanks.--Best regards,Reedrcurry@ttlc.net from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Fri Feb 22 20:00:55 2002 g1N20t806055 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:00:55 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:02:33 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: OT -- Looking for work OOps sorry guys hit the reply all button by mistake,Shawn from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 20:02:49 2002 g1N22m806306 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:02:48 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:02:43 -0800 Sat, 23 Feb 2002 02:02:42 GMT Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes FILETIME=[2DFC2D70:01C1BC0E] Jeff: Epon. Everyone I've ever talked to who's used Epon thinks it's hard to beat.I'm sure there's several adhesive's that will work fine although some maytake some special technique's such as URAC or Nyatex. The first time I seenanyone using Nyatex I thought the stuff was a step out of the stone age. I you rebind and heat set the Nyatex works excellent. So does URAC work wellif you were to follow Bob Nunley's method. For me, Epon is the best choice. Idon't have to rebind the sections and I also don't need to heat set theblanks. relationship with URAC and do not think before there is and heat set it. are perfectly have messed with. you are making Chat with friends online, try MSNMessenger: ClickHere from dongreife@hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 20:03:10 2002 g1N239806367 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:03:09 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:03:00 -0800 HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 02:03:00 GMT Subject: Re: Amateur Rodmaking??????? FILETIME=[3870DFD0:01C1BC0E] Todd, if memory serves me correctly, the book was written in the late1800's, before the advent of cane rods and was an instruction manual formaking round rods from such woods as greenheart, hickory, red cedar, Rodmakers List anyone give me Under construction Chat with friends online, try MSNMessenger: ClickHere from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 22 20:14:17 2002 g1N2EB807078 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:14:17 -0600 22 Feb 2002 21:14:05 -0500 Subject: RE: Amateur Rodmaking??????? Todd:I have it. It is not very modern in the least. Don is right on the money. Iwould say that in all the older books I have (Lambuth, Kreider, Herters,etc...) it is the least useful. An interesting read, but very dated.You want to borrow it?Best,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 9:03 PM Subject: Re: Amateur Rodmaking??????? Todd, if memory serves me correctly, the book was written in the late1800's, before the advent of cane rods and was an instruction manual formaking round rods from such woods as greenheart, hickory, red cedar,betharbora, lancewood etc. A first edition would be a find IMHO. Don Greife From: Todd Talsma Subject: Amateur Rodmaking???????Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:57:41 -0500 Hey all, I saw this book online, written by Perry D. Fraser. Can anyone give meany info on the book?--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464----- - web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here Todd: It is not very modern in the least. Don is right on the money. I would = in all the older books I have (Lambuth, Kreider, Herters, etc...) it is = least useful. An interesting read, but very dated. borrow it?Best,Bob GreifeSent: Friday, February 22, 2002 9:03 Rodmaking??????? Todd, if memory serves me correctly, the book was written in the = 1800's, before the advent of cane rods and was an instruction manual = betharbora, lancewood etc. A first edition would be a = = Here from saweiss@flash.net Fri Feb 22 20:15:29 2002 g1N2FT807248 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:15:29 -0600 g1N2FR358812 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:15:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life Organization: Prodigy Internet I have kept my Epon in the fridge for more than three years. I cannot detectany change from when it was brand new. I take it out a couple of hoursbefore use and let it go to room temperature before measuring and mixing.What proportions are people using? I have been mixing 1-1 rein hardener. Isanyone using the 2- 1 ratio?Steve We know that we can extend the shelf-life of Urac by a few months if it isstashed in the 'fridge. Does anyone know if Epon can benefit from the sametreatment? Some of you have said that Epon lasts many years anyhow, butothers have said "it ain't so." cheers, Bill from bob@downandacross.com Fri Feb 22 20:18:00 2002 g1N2Hs807536 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:17:59 -0600 ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:17:48 -0500 Subject: Lyon and Coulson Guys, I recieved a L&C rod this week, a 9' 3/2 for 5 wt. It is model #403. Icannot find that in Sinclair's book. It has NS seat (I think) and ferruleswith orange and black jasper thread. Is it still a Heddon made rod? Ferrulesclick, but it casts very nicely. The seat looks more like a Granger seat.Bob from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Feb 22 20:18:03 2002 g1N2I2807541 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:18:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes Hi Jeff,I use (and love) Nyatex also. BUT, according to the paperwork, shelf life is 6 months I think. Having said that, I am still using the quart cans I bought 5 years ago. Did you hear someone knocking on wood? No difference as faras I can tell so far. Having said that also, it is starting to worry me BECAUSE I read that the shelf life is 6 months. I wrote the list after the glue was a year old and asked if it was still good. I received only one reply. His feeling was that it was still good and no one wanted to risk advising me to continue to use a product that may have expired. I guess you should be careful about using a product that the shelf life has expired on. And yes, it does have a pleasant aroma!Mike Shay Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Fri Feb 22 20:31:24 2002 g1N2VN808319 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:31:23 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:31:23 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:messageSubject: RE: Epon - shelf life Thread-Topic: Epon - shelf lifeThread-Index: AcG74m20IcUrYifREda4IwBglOouXwAMC1IA FILETIME=[2F5753D0:01C1BC12] g1N2VO808320 Not that they would have any self interest in getting people to buy new glueto replace perfectly good old glue.... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life I called the manufacturer of Epon and asked them about the shelf life ofEpon, they said, one year only. Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life Maybe it's supposed to last forever, but I just had some go "funny"on me. The clear part got thicker and a little lumpy. I decidednot to use it in that condition. I have quart bottles from Miller-Stephenson that are 2-3 years old.I keep them closed up in a dark cabinet in my basement that is prettyconsistently about 60 degrees. I can live with shelf life of a couple of years, though. Jerry --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: All, It is not necessary to heat cure the Epon 828 nor the 826, thoughit isrecommended as the lap shear strength is greatly enhanced, and theresultingbond is less susceptible to creep (if that's even a problem). Miller-Stephenson is the sole distributor for small quantities ofthe Eponproducts. You may find the products at Bingham, but they bought alargequantity from M-S and sell it from that. It is only recommended to heat the resin, never the hardeningagent. Heatingthe resin to 100Ÿ F, even higher, has no detrimental effect on theresin,nor the cured product. It does, however, shorten the working time.The Eponproducts have a virtually unlimited shelf life. Buy the quarts, youcheapbastards. It'll still be good ten years from now. ;o) The hardening agent from Bingham is a Versamid product, I believe. M-D ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 12:23 PMSubject: Re: Epon Harry,I bit the bullet too. Seems to be the most economical way to buy it. It helps to warm the two components before mixing them.Really thins it out with very little heat. If anyone knows if this isdepartmental, to the gluing qualities, I would like to know. Sofar, noproblems. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Kyle, Tim, Be careful with what you order from Bingham. I don't remember thedetails, but either the resin or hardener they carry is just a taddifferent from the Epon formulation rodmakers typically use. It still works,but is alittle thicker. Harry(who bit the bullet and bought three quarts) KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Hi Tim, I had a hard time finding it. The primary source is from the manufacturer, Miller-Stephenson. The problem is that the smallestsize theysell is in quart sizes, which costs almost $50 after shipping. Youcan callthem and they will send you a free 4 ounce sample, but other thanthat theyhave a two quart minimum. You can find information on how tocontact them from the Rodmaker's webpage under the suppliers listing. Another option is to buy it from a company called Bingham Projects(not Bingham Products), which is a bow hunter's supply company outof Utah.They have a website and online ordering, and offer two 8 ouncecontainers ofEpon for around $20. Do a web search and you will find their site. Best, Kyle In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002 6:40:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,"Tim Wilhelm" writes: I used epon on my first rod and like how it works. I'll need topick up some more but I'm having trouble finding a source locally at thistime. Those that are using epon, where are you finding it? ThanksTim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Feb 22 20:56:00 2002 g1N2tx809210 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:55:59 -0600 Subject: Re: OT -- Looking for work rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Shawn,That's OK!, I had fun reading the paper!Mike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 22 21:05:48 2002 g1N35l809700 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:05:47 -0600 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:05:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes Jim;You're using the wrong thread to bind with if you have to sand or filethe string off. I use C&C Button,Carpet and Crafts glace cotton coveredpolyester for everything from heat treating to glue up and heat settingthe glue and even after heat setting Epon, all I have to do is work enufloose from one end to get ahold of it and pull it off, I have never hadto sand it off. I have never had it burn in the oven when heat treatingrough sections either, unless I dummied up and left it in too long, inwhich case the cane was burned,too. It's also about 10 times strongerthan cotton, I can bind a rough butt section with about 4 pounds on thedrive belt and the tensioners cranked down to where I can just barelypull it thru.john Jim Bureau wrote: Jeff: I've never heard of anyone having any love hate relationship withEpon. Everyone I've ever talked to who's used Epon thinks it's hard tobeat. I'm sure there's several adhesive's that will work fine althoughsome may take some special technique's such as URAC or Nyatex. Thefirst time I seen anyone using Nyatex I thought the stuff was a stepout of the stone age. I couldn't believe that anyone would spend allthat time filing the strings off a blank after the adhesive hardened,which is what was being done 7 years ago. I figured that URAC wasabout 10 times easier to use so I stuck with the URAC until I had afailure. Well, as time went by someone has figured out that if yourebind and heat set the Nyatex works excellent. So does URAC work wellif you were to follow Bob Nunley's method. For me, Epon is the bestchoice. I don't have to rebind the sections and I also don't need toheat set the blanks. Jim From: "Jeff Schaeffer" CC:Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yesDate: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:49:49 -0500 Everyone one the list seems to have a love/hate relationship with URAC and Epon.I wish more people tried Nyatex. It is SO easy to work with. I do not think it even has a shelf life.You have a couple of hours to get things bound and straight before there is even a hint of hardening.Let it cure for 24 hours, then remove the binding string, and heat set it. Saves hours of time sanding off the string, and your blanks are perfectly dry.And it does not smell as bad as some of the other glues I have messed with. If you decide to order some, do it by phone and tell them you are making bamboo fly rods. They have 1 qt. cans ready to go. No financial interest, of course. Jeff Schaeffer Nyatex2112 Industrial Howell, Mi 48843517 - 546 - 4046 ----------------------------------------------------------------------Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Feb 22 21:48:23 2002 g1N3mN810576 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:48:23 -0600 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:48:10 -0500 Subject: chat anyone in Todd's room tonight? Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Feb 22 22:15:04 2002 g1N4F2811310 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:15:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon - shelf life They must be saying that to keep way on this side of the actual time it's good for. I've never heard of an epoxy that wont last at least 5 years and I'd go as far as saying 10 wouldn't be asking too much and I don't think there is any need to refrigerate itUF and resorcinol on the other hand will deteriorate within a year or so, a little longer if refrigerated and if you get old stuff much sooner than that because it ages on the shelf even before you buy it.Before using this unless you're using it all the time and know it's still good you should always do a test to destruction on a pr of wood sticks.Get two pieces of wood about 1" wide and 6" long and glue about 1-2" of each end together. Leave till cured then put one end in the vise and wham one end with a hammer.If it breaks with lots of wood left on each stick that belongs to the other the glue's fine. If it breaks along the glue line deep 6 the glue, it's had it.I use Borden of UK liquid glue and hardener which I like very much. I use Epon too but mainly for scarfing as I'm a bit sensitized to epoxies so don't use them when I don't need to.I read somewhere (possibly Wooden Boat) UFs have been down graded as a serious threat to life and are now just considered dangerous if ingested.Can't remember the details but basically (I believe) UF isn't thought to be as bad as we all thought. Tony At 02:43 PM 2/22/22 -0600, Mark Dyba wrote: I called the manufacturer of Epon and asked them about the shelf life ofEpon, they said, one year only. Mark /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from dongreife@hotmail.com Fri Feb 22 22:23:23 2002 g1N4NM811669 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:23:22 -0600 Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:23:17 -0800 HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 04:23:17 GMT Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes FILETIME=[D14CAB90:01C1BC21] What are the nodeless builders using?? I use URAC cause it doesn't needheat treating to cure. yes sand or file glace cotton covered heat setting work enuf never had heat treating long, in times stronger pounds on the just barely relationship with thinks it's hard to fine although URAC or Nyatex. The stuff was a step would spend all adhesive hardened, that URAC was until I had a that if you does URAC work well Epon is the best don't need to relationship with work with. I do not and straight before string, and heat your blanks are glues I have messed tell them you are go. ----- Here Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Feb 23 06:11:22 2002 g1NCBK816534 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 06:11:20 -0600 (63.228.47.188) Subject: Re: Epon Cost Why not call the 800 number listed on the rodmakers page?-----Original Message----- Subject: Epon Cost If some has ordered a small quantity of Epon 828 lately, could you pleaseemail me off list the price and contact. Thanks, Darrin Curtis from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Feb 23 06:17:22 2002 g1NCHL816803 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 06:17:21 - (63.228.47.188) Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes Nyatex made my eyelids swell up and itch for a week. I don't use it anymore.Epon doesn't do this.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes Everyone one the list seems to have a love/hate relationship with URAC andEpon.I wish more people tried Nyatex. It is SO easy to work with. I do not thinkit even has a shelf life.You have a couple of hours to get things bound and straight before there iseven a hint of hardening.Let it cure for 24 hours, then remove the binding string, and heat set it.Saves hours of time sanding off the string, and your blanks are perfectlydry.And it does not smell as bad as some of the other glues I have messed with.If you decide to order some, do it by phone and tell them you are makingbamboo fly rods. They have 1 qt. cans ready to go. No financial interest, of course. Jeff Schaeffer Nyatex2112 Industrial Howell, Mi 48843517 - 546 - 4046 from Dennishigham@cs.com Sat Feb 23 07:35:36 2002 g1NDZZ817681 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:35:35 - for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:35:25 - Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes Guys,Regarding heat setting both Nyatex and Epon....neither needs to be heat set. 5-6 years ago I started to heat set both Nyatex and Epon but before that I never heat-set them and the rods I built then are still doing fine. Nyatex takes about 4-5 days to fully cure w/out heat setting. That being said, the heat setting does make for a stronger glue joint buy increasing the cross linking and also you get a cured blank in a lot less time. With both Epon and Nyatex I remove the string after 16-24 hours, sand off the excess glue, rebind then heat set. re: shelf life on Nyatex.... My original cans of Nyatex worked fine for about 5 years then the glue started taking longer and longer to set up. The last rod I made with that stuff took 2 days to set up so I pitched it and got some new. My Epon is still going strong after 4 years. Dennis from bamboorodmaker@hotmail.com Sat Feb 23 08:50:22 2002 g1NEoL820123 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:50:21 - Sat, 23 Feb 2002 06:50:16 -0800 Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:50:15 GMT Subject: Re: Persistent Problem FILETIME=[67C457B0:01C1BC79] HarryI"m not sure what could be causing the angle problem, but I have asuggestion on how to check the V- groove. If you have a fish tail - a smallmachinist scale with 60Ÿ angles on it- you can stick the pointed end down intothe groove, and then use a good machinist square to see if the fish tail -small scale - is perpendicular to the flats of the form. This could tell you ifyour groove is leaning. If you have a friend that works in a machine shop; you could have him groove is perpendicular to the flats.I'm guessing the groove is correct, and you will find no problem in theforms. Instead, I would be looking at how you a checking the angles of thestrip. Give this a try. Take a scrap strip and rough plane it down. Then, put it in angles are off. metal of the form. Many makers, I have seen, baby their forms. In machining,jigs and forms are expendable. They use them; they refurbish disagree here. Most crafters like to think they have calibrated eye balls. LOL:)) I prefer to use calibrated measuring instruments. A perfect example of many musicians that tune by ear. I have proven to many of them that the it on the tuner. Guess what? Most are off. Maybe not by a lot, but never the What I'm trying to say is: the tendency to lean the plane is inevitable. So equal. If all this is on, you can't be off unless you have a material flaw, or a all the way.I will shut up now LOL :)) Best MSN Photos is theeasiest way to share and print your photos: ClickHere from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Feb 23 09:33:57 2002 g1NFXu820896 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:33:56 - helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16eeBP-0007VT-00; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:33:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Persistent problem ?Harry,When I first made my forms I was over zealous about the finish on the topsand tried to keepthem " tunned" all the time. Over time this problem showed up and I was alsoat a loss. After alot of headaches over this I came to the conclusion that I was a littleheavy on the right handwhile working the tops. Solution was to file the groove a few thousands withthe 60 file on ablock that I hade built them with. This may or may not be the problem youhave but for me itsaved a lot of problems.Ron from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Feb 23 10:28:22 2002 g1NGSL821723 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:28:21 - (authenticated) for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:29:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Persistent problem Folks, Thanks for all the help!! Looks like my forms are the problem. Though theyare flat as a pancake when closed, adjusting them tothe desired taper creates a crowning, or convex,affect at the center of the butt side. One wouldthink that the tip side would thus be concave, but itis not. The tip side, too, is concave. Using aSharpie pen, I marked the groove so I could see whatwas going on, and pulled a one of the 60* lathe toolsin a block down the groove. It cuts in the centers ofthe groove in places, and the outer edges of thegroove in other places. Next question is "Why?" One list member called tosuggest that perhaps I have repeatedly over-torquedthe adjusting screws, causing some wear and tear onthe dowel pins and shoulder bolts. Without question,the bolts and pins slide easily in and out. Thereforesome "slop" is present. As the adjustment screws aretightened, the slop allows the forms to bow slightly.Makes some sense to me... other opinions? Possible solutions? First possibility, drill andream the dowel holes for the next larger size,eliminating any slop. Then flatten the surfacesagain, and re- cut the groove. Sounds like a lot ofwork to me!Second possibility, buy new forms.Third possibily, but a Morgan hand Mill -- naah,can't afford one on a preacher's salary. Some for apowered finish mill. Final question... anyone have a good set of formslying around that they want to make me a great dealon. Any forms not perfectly accurate, or needing lotsof work, need not reply. Moral of this story.... do not over-tighten yourforms. Using the pull bolts only, first tighten to.0005" smaller than desired. Then using the pushbolts, force the bars open by that final .0005". Thanks again,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: I've got one that has me stumped, and coulduse a little input. Over the last few rods I havefound it extremely difficult to get correct angleson my strips. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rvenneri@ulster.net Sat Feb 23 10:54:33 2002 g1NGsW822376 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:54:32 - Organization: Venneri's Custom Components Subject: Re: Persistent problem Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Thanks for all the help!! Looks like my forms are the problem. Though theyare flat as a pancake when closed, adjusting them tothe desired taper creates a crowning, or convex,affect at the center of the butt side. One wouldthink that the tip side would thus be concave, but itis not. The tip side, too, is concave. Using aSharpie pen, I marked the groove so I could see whatwas going on, and pulled a one of the 60* lathe toolsin a block down the groove. It cuts in the centers ofthe groove in places, and the outer edges of thegroove in other places. Next question is "Why?" One list member called tosuggest that perhaps I have repeatedly over-torquedthe adjusting screws, causing some wear and tear onthe dowel pins and shoulder bolts. Without question,the bolts and pins slide easily in and out. Thereforesome "slop" is present. As the adjustment screws aretightened, the slop allows the forms to bow slightly.Makes some sense to me... other opinions? Possible solutions? First possibility, drill andream the dowel holes for the next larger size,eliminating any slop. Then flatten the surfacesagain, and re- cut the groove. Sounds like a lot ofwork to me!Second possibility, buy new forms.Third possibily, but a Morgan hand Mill -- naah,can't afford one on a preacher's salary. Some for apowered finish mill. Final question... anyone have a good set of formslying around that they want to make me a great dealon. Any forms not perfectly accurate, or needing lotsof work, need not reply. Moral of this story.... do not over-tighten yourforms. Using the pull bolts only, first tighten to.0005" smaller than desired. Then using the pushbolts, force the bars open by that final .0005". Thanks again,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: I've got one that has me stumped, and coulduse a little input. Over the last few rods I havefound it extremely difficult to get correct angleson my strips. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- Harry ,I tried to email you and I keep getting error msgs. Contact me if youcould. Best RegartdsBob V from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 23 11:23:42 2002 g1NHNf823029 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:23:41 - for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:23:45 - Subject: Re: Persistent problem Harry;And the last "why" option is repeated filing of the top of the forms toclean up gouges, you might have rounded off both sides of the formsunevenly by filing them clean many times. Moral of that story, learn tolive with a few marks, or send them back to the maker to have themre- surfaced.just a thoughtjohn Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Thanks for all the help!! Looks like my forms are the problem. Though theyare flat as a pancake when closed, adjusting them tothe desired taper creates a crowning, or convex,affect at the center of the butt side. One wouldthink that the tip side would thus be concave, but itis not. The tip side, too, is concave. Using aSharpie pen, I marked the groove so I could see whatwas going on, and pulled a one of the 60* lathe toolsin a block down the groove. It cuts in the centers ofthe groove in places, and the outer edges of thegroove in other places. Next question is "Why?" One list member called tosuggest that perhaps I have repeatedly over-torquedthe adjusting screws, causing some wear and tear onthe dowel pins and shoulder bolts. Without question,the bolts and pins slide easily in and out. Thereforesome "slop" is present. As the adjustment screws aretightened, the slop allows the forms to bow slightly.Makes some sense to me... other opinions? Possible solutions? First possibility, drill andream the dowel holes for the next larger size,eliminating any slop. Then flatten the surfacesagain, and re- cut the groove. Sounds like a lot ofwork to me!Second possibility, buy new forms.Third possibily, but a Morgan hand Mill -- naah,can't afford one on a preacher's salary. Some for apowered finish mill. Final question... anyone have a good set of formslying around that they want to make me a great dealon. Any forms not perfectly accurate, or needing lotsof work, need not reply. Moral of this story.... do not over-tighten yourforms. Using the pull bolts only, first tighten to.0005" smaller than desired. Then using the pushbolts, force the bars open by that final .0005". Thanks again,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: I've got one that has me stumped, and coulduse a little input. Over the last few rods I havefound it extremely difficult to get correct angleson my strips. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from FlyfishT@aol.com Sat Feb 23 11:30:00 2002 g1NHTx823330 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:29:59 - Subject: Re: Persistent problem Hi Harry,I just got some ferrules from Tony larson . Good stuff. First thing i noticed there was no machining marks. My point , he said he makes planing forms also ,and since his prices are reasonable on the other stuff it might be worth a call. Tom from harms1@pa.net Sat Feb 23 11:33:29 2002 g1NHXS823639 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:33:28 - Subject: Re: Persistent problem Harry, I can't be certain, but I'd bet a fair sum that if your description of theproblem is accurate, the cause would be unequal surfaces across the twobarsof your planing forms. Lay a metal straightedge across the two bars (whenthe forms are set to build strips) at various points and look for lightbetween the surfaces and the straightedge. Obviously, there should be none. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Persistent problem Friends, I've got one that has me stumped, and coulduse a little input. Over the last few rods I havefound it extremely difficult to get correct angleson my strips. No matter what I do, mymeasurements are not equal, and it winds up takingme an hour or more per strip to plane to finaldimensions. After every three of four passes orthe plane, I stop to measure and my dimensions areoff of equilateral by as much as .010". So Icorrect the angles, up and down the strip, andstart again. Same problem, over and over on everystrip.Some of you may remember that I thought I hadthis problem solved when I discovered some crudunder the front foot of my plane. Correcting thathas not proved to be the answer. I have three theories. Tell me if any ofthese make sense. First, my plane(s) could be allmessed up. I don't think so, cause I've checkedand triple-checked them -- all of them. I've hada my wife's make-up mirror out in the shop, makingsure I'm holding the plane level, and I'm doingokay there. Second, my forms could be screwedup. Perhaps the last time I tuned them somethingwent haywire. Come to think of it, that's aboutwhen the problem started. Other than checkingto see that they are flat (they are), how wouldone go about checking the angles in the groove?Third, the strips I just finished have a smalltwist at one of the nodes. Is it possible thattwist causes the strips to cant in the groove ofthe form, so much so that the angles get messed upin a hurry. I doubt it, because when I straightenthe twist and resume planing, the problem rearsits ugly head again. Thanks for the input. This one has me pullingout my hair, so frustrated that rodmaking hasn'tbeen much fun lately. I hate to ask, but I'm atmy wit's end. Best,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from wiljette@nmia.com Sat Feb 23 11:46:15 2002 g1NHkE824152 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:46:14 - by uid 101 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4187. . Clear:0.Processed in 0.628866 secs); 23 Feb 2002 17:46:14 -0000 Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes g1NHkF824153 Mike:The Nyatex I use was bought in January 1997 and stored in the bottom ofthe refrigerator ever since. As far as I can tell, it works as well today as itdid when first opened. What I really like about the stuff is that it is soforgiving! By the time I finish straitening I have rubbed off most of theexcess glue which results in not having to sand off the binding thread; it justpulls off.Will from canazon@mindspring.com Sat Feb 23 14:35:38 2002 g1NKZb826888 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:35:38 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16eitJ-0004Up-00; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:35:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Persistent problem harry,could it be that the bolts are not perfectly square going through theforms? this might push the form up or down in one spot or another?mike ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Persistent problem Folks, Thanks for all the help!! Looks like my forms are the problem. Though theyare flat as a pancake when closed, adjusting them tothe desired taper creates a crowning, or convex,affect at the center of the butt side. One wouldthink that the tip side would thus be concave, but itis not. The tip side, too, is concave. Using aSharpie pen, I marked the groove so I could see whatwas going on, and pulled a one of the 60* lathe toolsin a block down the groove. It cuts in the centers ofthe groove in places, and the outer edges of thegroove in other places. from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sat Feb 23 14:40:35 2002 g1NKeY827210 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:40:35 - for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 15:40:29 - Subject: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 Several people asked me to post this taper for a rod I am in the process ofrefinishing. The rod is a Leonard 8' 0", 2 piece, Model Letort 40 for a #4 line. This is a very light, full flexing, rod that cant be hurried, but Ibelieve it would be ideal for delicate presentation. The measurements aretaken at 5" centres over bare cane (varnish was removed) and are theaverageof 3 flats. Measurements are also given in front of the male and femaleferrules and at the sharp swelling in front of the cork grip. The rod has 9guides including the stripper. The ferrule is a 12/64" step-down style. Tip0" .060"5" .070"10" .08815" .09820" .11825" .12630" .14035" .15340" .17045" .19446 5/8" .196 behind the male ferrule. Butt0" ferrule1 3/4" .191" behind female ferrule5" .198"10" .212"15" .226"20" .23225" .24230" .25235" .268 start of swelled butt36 1/2" .280"38 3/4" .370" start of cork grip from rvenneri@ulster.net Sat Feb 23 16:29:20 2002 g1NMTJ829091 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:29:20 - Organization: Venneri's Custom Components Subject: epon Hi Guys,Could someone tell me where to get epon at a good price and mostimportant of all in a hurry. http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882 from jojo@ipa.net Sat Feb 23 16:36:48 2002 g1NMal829434 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:36:48 -0600 helo=default) id 16ekmb-0008Ap-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:36:45 -0500 Subject: Re: epon Can't help you with the price, but how much do you need? Someone nearbymaybe able to send you a small amount. Miller-Stephenson Chemical Company, Inc.Danbury, CT 06810 (Main Offices) Technical Info: 1-800-992-2424 Janet Stephens (8-4 Eastern)Ordering: CT 203-743-4447 M-D Hi Guys,Could someone tell me where to get epon at a good price and mostimportant of all in a hurry. http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882 from jerryy@webtv.net Sat Feb 23 16:41:02 2002 g1NMf1829722 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:41:01 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2112.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id OAA03342; ETAuAhUAs5Dz1KoDqYE4DBxPFxjLvIflgH4CFQCDvZZa7tOCp19NKlKBUGpaZMPuyA== Subject: Re: epon 2002 17:28:33 -0800 Bob - Bingham Projects has always been prompt in shipping. You cancall at 801 399-3471 or order off the website at:www.binghamprojects.com Regards, Jerry Young from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Feb 23 17:40:22 2002 g1NNeK807041 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:40:20 - 23 Feb 2002 15:40:16 PST Subject: Re: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 Ted et all,I have made several Leonard rods - 1/2 of them arehanging on the wall, some were good enough to let myfamily have (they won't get much use). I found theserods to be whippy like a buggy whip. I went slow incasting but could never get any good action them justseemed flimsy . I also could not get more than 40 feet. Tried several weights etc. Any thoughts here ?TIA --- Ted wrote: Several people asked me to post this taper for a rodI am in the process ofrefinishing. The rod is a Leonard 8' 0", 2 piece,Model Letort 40 for a #4 line. This is a very light, full flexing, rodthat cant be hurried, but Ibelieve it would be ideal for delicate presentation.The measurements aretaken at 5" centres over bare cane (varnish wasremoved) and are the averageof 3 flats. Measurements are also given in front ofthe male and femaleferrules and at the sharp swelling in front of thecork grip. The rod has 9guides including the stripper. The ferrule is a12/64" step-down style. Tip0" .060"5" .070"10" .08815" .09820" .11825" .12630" .14035" .15340" .17045" .19446 5/8" .196 behind the male ferrule. Butt0" ferrule1 3/4" .191" behind female ferrule5" .198"10" .212"15" .226"20" .23225" .24230" .25235" .268 start of swelled butt36 1/2" .280"38 3/4" .370" start of cork grip __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from aebersold@ou.edu Sat Feb 23 18:40:11 2002 g1O0eA814868 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:40:10 - id ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:40:06 -0600 Subject: guide feet I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the blackfinish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of itcameoff when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleedsinto the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Pls???-dennis aebersold from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Feb 23 18:52:18 2002 g1O0qI816220 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:52:18 - Subject: Re: guide feet If you have a darkening agent such as the Payne blue, or brass black, try that. I've found you can heat the ends of the feet red hot over an alcohol lamp, it'll darken the metal and remove the sheen too.Or use only dark silk colors!BTW, any relation to Jazz educator Jamie Aebersold? Hope that helps, Rob Hoffhines from homes-sold@attbi.com Sat Feb 23 19:00:24 2002 g1O10O816612 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:00:24 - Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:00:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Persistent problem Harry,You may want to use machinist dye on the top/bottom surfaces and use 700wet/day attached to 1/4" plate glass as a backing and see if the forms areflat. If so use the procedure I wrote for Power Fibers to tune.. If yourpush/pull/dowels are sloppy, go to next size up. When you are done you willhave better than new forms :>)Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Persistent problem Harry;And the last "why" option is repeated filing of the top of the forms toclean up gouges, you might have rounded off both sides of the formsunevenly by filing them clean many times. Moral of that story, learn tolive with a few marks, or send them back to the maker to have themre- surfaced.just a thoughtjohn Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Thanks for all the help!! Looks like my forms are the problem. Though theyare flat as a pancake when closed, adjusting them tothe desired taper creates a crowning, or convex,affect at the center of the butt side. One wouldthink that the tip side would thus be concave, but itis not. The tip side, too, is concave. Using aSharpie pen, I marked the groove so I could see whatwas going on, and pulled a one of the 60* lathe toolsin a block down the groove. It cuts in the centers ofthe groove in places, and the outer edges of thegroove in other places. Next question is "Why?" One list member called tosuggest that perhaps I have repeatedly over-torquedthe adjusting screws, causing some wear and tear onthe dowel pins and shoulder bolts. Without question,the bolts and pins slide easily in and out. Thereforesome "slop" is present. As the adjustment screws aretightened, the slop allows the forms to bow slightly.Makes some sense to me... other opinions? Possible solutions? First possibility, drill andream the dowel holes for the next larger size,eliminating any slop. Then flatten the surfacesagain, and re- cut the groove. Sounds like a lot ofwork to me!Second possibility, buy new forms.Third possibily, but a Morgan hand Mill -- naah,can't afford one on a preacher's salary. Some for apowered finish mill. Final question... anyone have a good set of formslying around that they want to make me a great dealon. Any forms not perfectly accurate, or needing lotsof work, need not reply. Moral of this story.... do not over-tighten yourforms. Using the pull bolts only, first tighten to.0005" smaller than desired. Then using the pushbolts, force the bars open by that final .0005". Thanks again,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: I've got one that has me stumped, and coulduse a little input. Over the last few rods I havefound it extremely difficult to get correct angleson my strips. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dnorl@qwest.net Sat Feb 23 19:13:29 2002 g1O1DS817123 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:13:28 - (63.228.46.12) Subject: Re: epon They ship the same day from Illinois.Telephone # 847-966-2022-----Original Message----- Subject: epon Hi Guys,Could someone tell me where to get epon at a good price and mostimportant of all in a hurry. http://www.ulster.net/~rvenneri/index.html Best RegardsBob VVenneri's21 Chuck Hill RdSaugerties NY 12477845 246 5882 from jojo@ipa.net Sat Feb 23 19:21:13 2002 g1O1LC817462 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:21:12 -0600 helo=default) id 16enLj-0003yc-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:21:12 -0500 Subject: Re: guide feet Dennis, Rob has the right idea. If you can get some cold blue solution, Brownell's44- 40 or Oxpho-Blue, Birchwood-Casey, etc., that should do the trick wellenough to give you a dark surface, IF you have removed the chrome, whichyouprobably have if you've filed them, BUT if you've accidentally removed onlythe black, then you have a problem. Spend the bucks and buy Snake Brand guides. You shouldn't have to file thembut on rare occasion, and then not much. M-D I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the blackfinish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of it came off when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleeds into the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Pls???- dennis aebersold from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 23 20:52:14 2002 g1O2qE822917 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:52:14 - for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:52:23 - Subject: Re: guide feet Dennis;Do any wiping with alcohol before you use the magic marker on them.Varnish won't make the marker bleed into the wraps, the solventsvarnish has in it won't dissolve the solvent in the marker.john "Aebersold, Dennis R" wrote: I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the blackfinish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of itcameoff when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleedsinto the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Pls???-dennis aebersold from bob@downandacross.com Sat Feb 23 22:10:44 2002 g1O4Ah824393 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:10:43 - ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:10:34 -0500 Subject: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) As some of you know, I bought an old production mill and have been spendingmy time setting it up between handplaning the latest orders. I have beenvery very excited about getting it up and running, and many guys on the listhave been helping me with little things that needed answering, like power,cutters, etc....Today, I finally got it reassembled after a grueling (very cold outside inthe garage) time hauling all the workbenches out of the way, cleaning up,and lugging all the pieces down in the basement shop. I had to disconnectthe very very heavy motor in order to get the main unit down the stairs. Ireassembled the whole main section, the cutter head section, and the armsthat form the infeed bed and the outfeed's chain driven unit. I spent manyhours bolting, repositioning, and tweaking all the parts, figuring the unitout as I went along, looking over and over at the few pictures of theassembled machine I have. I did not reattach the dual voltage motors, as Iam taking them to be looked at and possibly rewired to 110.I wanted to see how the unit worked, so I took a roughed strip and attachedit to the hold down. I figured it out and manually pulled the chain andwatched as the taper bar moved through the machine setting the magic inmotion.I could not contain my excitment so I called my wife down to see how thewhole shabang worked. I found a butt section cut off and explained how a rodwas made up out of many tapered triangles. I took the roughed strip and putit into the hold down clamp. I showed how the taper bar rolled on the trackand bumped the hold down bed and strip up into the cutters. I pulled thecutters out of the box and showed how when paired up side by side, theyformed a triangle. I pointed out the increase in the taper bars and how thatwould take more off the bamboo forming the smaller tips. As I pulled the barthrough I showed how the cane was moving up and more would be cut off. Iexplained where the pulleys and motors that drive the cutters and the chaindrive would go. I pulled the strip through and rejoiced as the bardisengaged as it travelled to the end of its path.My wife's reply, "That's it?"My head hung low. Disbelief showed on my face."I'm sorry honey. I just thought it would do more." When will I ever learn,Bob ps., Oh yeah. 5 minutes later she asked, "That thing won't be running allday long while we're at work, will it?" from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sat Feb 23 22:31:15 2002 g1O4VE824853 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:31:14 - Subject: Re: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 I agree that this rod is not for everyone, but the owner has several lightLeonards and loves this kind of action. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sat Feb 23 22:47:24 2002 g1O4lN825319 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:47:23 - (authenticated) for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:48:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Persistent problem Friends, Though I've tried to remember to thank each of youoff-line, I may have missed a few. Thirty-three differentlist-members offered helpful suggestions in less than 24hours. One list member offered a loaner set of forms toget me through the next few weeks. Another member offeredto build some super-nice fantasy world forms for me. Twomembers offered to sell me their extra forms. Severalpassed along secrets about where to get top-quality formsat a reasonable price, and no, I won't divulge theirsecrets. I haven't checked the statistics lately, but I suspectmy name is near the top of the list of most prolificposters, behind maybe Tony Young and one or two more.Helping others is almost as much fun to me as making rods,and lots more fun than making rods has been on thesescrewed-up forms! I don't know if everyone receives thegreat kindness and generosity from the list that I do.But I really appreciate it. It is absolutely amazing tome that help is so readily and easily available. I'm flabbergasted. And deeply grateful,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: Looks like my forms are the problem. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sat Feb 23 22:50:14 2002 g1O4oD825548 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:50:13 - for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:50:06 - Subject: Al Grombacher, Computer Bug? I have now received 4 "undeliveral message" errors for Al Grombacher, but Ihaven't sent him a message. Is this a bug of some sort? from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sat Feb 23 22:59:12 2002 g1O4xB825951 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:59:12 - Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:59:11 -0800 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) FILETIME=[FF97AB20:01C1BCEF] Yes. My wife inspects every rod, and finds every speck of dust, slightly unevenguide wrap (one turn), and microscopic flaw in the reel seat. These arepatiently pointed out to me one at a time. On the other hand, right after we were married I took her and my newstepdaughter to the Southfield show to pick up some servicable graphiteoutfits so they could learn flyfishing. They both disappeared. When theycame back, I showed them some potential graphite outfits. They told me thatthose rods were ugly, and the ones they wanted were "the tan ones thathavethe cool edges". I told them that those were cane rods, and explained how Ihad always loved them, and seen a presentation on how they were made, butdid not think I had the ability to make them. They marched me over to RonBarch and bought me a copy of Maurer and Elser. That is how I got started. Jeff Schaeffer from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sat Feb 23 23:00:24 2002 g1O50J826043 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:00:19 - g1O53Re06099; "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) My wife's favorite part of my rodmaking is all the nice garden stakes Ileave when I sort through the split stuff. And Bob, God help us all if the truth ever gets out about how much we spendon all these "toys." Brian Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) As some of you know, I bought an old production mill and have been spending my time setting it up between handplaning the latest orders. I have beenvery very excited about getting it up and running, and many guys on the list have been helping me with little things that needed answering, like power,cutters, etc....Today, I finally got it reassembled after a grueling (very cold outside inthe garage) time hauling all the workbenches out of the way, cleaning up,and lugging all the pieces down in the basement shop. I had to disconnectthe very very heavy motor in order to get the main unit down the stairs. Ireassembled the whole main section, the cutter head section, and the armsthat form the infeed bed and the outfeed's chain driven unit. I spent manyhours bolting, repositioning, and tweaking all the parts, figuring the unit out as I went along, looking over and over at the few pictures of theassembled machine I have. I did not reattach the dual voltage motors, as Iam taking them to be looked at and possibly rewired to 110.I wanted to see how the unit worked, so I took a roughed strip and attached it to the hold down. I figured it out and manually pulled the chain andwatched as the taper bar moved through the machine setting the magic inmotion.I could not contain my excitment so I called my wife down to see how thewhole shabang worked. I found a butt section cut off and explained how a rod was made up out of many tapered triangles. I took the roughed strip and put it into the hold down clamp. I showed how the taper bar rolled on the track and bumped the hold down bed and strip up into the cutters. I pulled thecutters out of the box and showed how when paired up side by side, theyformed a triangle. I pointed out the increase in the taper bars and how that would take more off the bamboo forming the smaller tips. As I pulled the bar through I showed how the cane was moving up and more would be cut off. Iexplained where the pulleys and motors that drive the cutters and the chain drive would go. I pulled the strip through and rejoiced as the bardisengaged as it travelled to the end of its path.My wife's reply, "That's it?"My head hung low. Disbelief showed on my face."I'm sorry honey. I just thought it would do more." When will I ever learn,Bob ps., Oh yeah. 5 minutes later she asked, "That thing won't be running allday long while we're at work, will it?" from pohl@earthlink.net Sat Feb 23 23:35:17 2002 g1O5ZG827048 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:35:16 - helo=kathypohl) id 16erJb-0006X3-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:35:15 -0800 Subject: forms...... I'm looking into a set of upper end forms.... I've used Wagners but theBellingers are a little less expensive. Has anyone used both of these formsand would care to comment on them off list..... Mark from pohl@earthlink.net Sat Feb 23 23:38:35 2002 g1O5cY827275 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:38:34 - helo=kathypohl) id 16erMn-0001PF-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:38:33 -0800 Subject: lathe, cork speed I'm looking into lathes, what speed should cork be turned at? also, isanyone using a Homier 7 x12 that would like to comment about it. Thanks,Mark from saweiss@flash.net Sat Feb 23 23:59:40 2002 g1O5xd827795 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:59:39 - g1O5xc1212644 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 00:59:38 -0500 Subject: Re: lathe, cork speed Organization: Prodigy Internet I have always turned mine at about 1400 RPMSteve I'm looking into lathes, what speed should cork be turned at? also, isanyone using a Homier 7 x12 that would like to comment about it. Thanks,Mark from KyleDruey@aol.com Sun Feb 24 00:59:18 2002 g1O6xH828712 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 00:59:17 - for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:59:08 - Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) Chicks, go figure. And my wife wanted to know why I didn't get up and join a standing ovation along with everyone else at the end of River Dance... Although.... to my surprise, SWMBO did think the quad section I bound up tonight was cool looking... still, go figure. In a message dated 02/23/2002 8:12:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: As some of you know, I bought an old production mill and have beenspendingmy time setting it up between handplaning the latest orders. I have beenvery very excited about getting it up and running, and many guys on the list have been helping me with little things that needed answering, like power,cutters, etc....Today, I finally got it reassembled after a grueling (very cold outside inthe garage) time hauling all the workbenches out of the way, cleaning up,and lugging all the pieces down in the basement shop. I had to disconnectthe very very heavy motor in order to get the main unit down the stairs. Ireassembled the whole main section, the cutter head section, and the armsthat form the infeed bed and the outfeed's chain driven unit. I spent manyhours bolting, repositioning, and tweaking all the parts, figuring the unitout as I went along, looking over and over at the few pictures of theassembled machine I have. I did not reattach the dual voltage motors, as Iam taking them to be looked at and possibly rewired to 110.I wanted to see how the unit worked, so I took a roughed strip and attachedit to the hold down. I figured it out and manually pulled the chain andwatched as the taper bar moved through the machine setting the magic inmotion.I could not contain my excitment so I called my wife down to see how thewhole shabang worked. I found a butt section cut off and explained how a rod was made up out of many tapered triangles. I took the roughed strip andputit into the hold down clamp. I showed how the taper bar rolled on the trackand bumped the hold down bed and strip up into the cutters. I pulled thecutters out of the box and showed how when paired up side by side, theyformed a triangle. I pointed out the increase in the taper bars and how that would take more off the bamboo forming the smaller tips. As I pulled the bar through I showed how the cane was moving up and more would be cut off. Iexplained where the pulleys and motors that drive the cutters and thechaindrive would go. I pulled the strip through and rejoiced as the bardisengaged as it travelled to the end of its path.My wife's reply, "That's it?"My head hung low. Disbelief showed on my face."I'm sorry honey. I just thought it would do more."When will I ever learn,Bobps., Oh yeah. 5 minutes later she asked, "That thing won't be running allday long while we're at work, will it?"----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (rly-yb02.mail.aol.com Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:12:42 -0500 rly- Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:12:24 -0500 g1O4CM824469; [64. g1O4Ah824393 ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:10:34 -0500 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related)Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:10:28 -0500Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: NormalSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Feb 24 03:36:03 2002 g1O9a2800442 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 03:36:02 - Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:35:53 -0800 Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:35:52 GMT Subject: Re: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 FILETIME=[A6ED8A40:01C1BD16] There are Leonards and there are Leonards. One bad trait that Leonard was known for was the lack of consistency in their tapers. I have had dealers tell me that when they wanted to buy Leonards(when the shop was open)they went to the factory and cast them until they had ones they liked. You have to be very careful when choosing your leonard tapers. After 10 or 20 years you can look at the taper and pretty much tell if it is going to be a pig or not. A good Leonard has a deliberate but not soft or whippy feel to it and they cast great, a bad Leonard is a thing of much frustration, no power or backbone and you have to force it to work with casting tricks. Going to a lighter line doesn't do squat either. If you build rods from the Maxwell era, they are marked ie:38-4 or 39-5 etc, you will find that the rods are a bit more powerful. I don't use them myself as I like the feel of the prefire 'good' rods but the Maxwell era rods seemed to be more cosistent and morein tune with current tastes.A.J. From: Rex Tutor Subject: Re: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 Ted et all,I have made several Leonard rods - 1/2 of them arehanging on the wall, some were good enough to let myfamily have (they won't get much use). I found theserods to be whippy like a buggy whip. I went slow incasting but could never get any good action them justseemed flimsy . I also could not get more than 40 feet. Tried several weights etc. Any thoughts here ?TIA --- Ted wrote: Several people asked me to post this taper for a rodI am in the process ofrefinishing. The rod is a Leonard 8' 0", 2 piece,Model Letort 40 for a #4 line. This is a very light, full flexing, rodthat cant be hurried, but Ibelieve it would be ideal for delicate presentation.The measurements aretaken at 5" centres over bare cane (varnish wasremoved) and are the averageof 3 flats. Measurements are also given in front ofthe male and femaleferrules and at the sharp swelling in front of thecork grip. The rod has 9guides including the stripper. The ferrule is a12/64" step-down style. Tip0" .060"5" .070"10" .08815" .09820" .11825" .12630" .14035" .15340" .17045" .19446 5/8" .196 behind the male ferrule. Butt0" ferrule1 3/4" .191" behind female ferrule5" .198"10" .212"15" .226"20" .23225" .24230" .25235" .268 start of swelled butt36 1/2" .280"38 3/4" .370" start of cork grip __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Feb 24 04:45:11 2002 g1OAjA801301 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 04:45:11 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4186. .Clear:0. Processed in 1.067754 secs); 24 Feb 2002 10:45:10 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 Yea, I had a 39H Simroe era that I bought on Ebay to see what all the "hype" was about. I took it out in the yard and casted it for 15 min. What a dog! I immediatly went inside and resold it on Ebay to get my money (most of it anyway) back. I was cured of postfire Leonard fever.Marty Allen Thramer wrote: There are Leonards and there are Leonards. One bad trait that Leonard was known for was the lack of consistency in their tapers. I have had dealers tell me that when they wanted to buy Leonards(when the shop was open) they went to the factory and cast them until they had ones they liked. You have to be very careful when choosing your leonard tapers. After 10 or 20 years you can look at the taper and pretty much tell if it is going to be a pig or not. A good Leonard has a deliberate but not soft or whippy feel to it and they cast great, a bad Leonard is a thing of much frustration, no power or backbone and you have to force it to work with casting tricks. Going to a lighter line doesn't do squat either. If you build rods from the Maxwell era, they are marked ie:38-4 or 39-5 etc, you will find that the rods are a bit more powerful. I don't use them myself as I like the feel of the prefire 'good' rods but the Maxwell era rods seemed to be more cosistent and more in tune with current tastes.A.J. From: Rex Tutor Subject: Re: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 Ted et all,I have made several Leonard rods - 1/2 of them arehanging on the wall, some were good enough to let myfamily have (they won't get much use). I found theserods to be whippy like a buggy whip. I went slow incasting but could never get any good action them justseemed flimsy . I also could not get more than 40 feet. Tried several weights etc. Any thoughts here ?TIA --- Ted wrote: Several people asked me to post this taper for a rodI am in the process ofrefinishing. The rod is a Leonard 8' 0", 2 piece,Model Letort 40 for a #4 line. This is a very light, full flexing, rodthat cant be hurried, but Ibelieve it would be ideal for delicate presentation.The measurements aretaken at 5" centres over bare cane (varnish wasremoved) and are the averageof 3 flats. Measurements are also given in front ofthe male and femaleferrules and at the sharp swelling in front of thecork grip. The rod has 9guides including the stripper. The ferrule is a12/64" step-down style. Tip0" .060"5" .070"10" .08815" .09820" .11825" .12630" .14035" .15340" .17045" .19446 5/8" .196 behind the male ferrule. Butt0" ferrule1 3/4" .191" behind female ferrule5" .198"10" .212"15" .226"20" .23225" .24230" .25235" .268 start of swelled butt36 1/2" .280"38 3/4" .370" start of cork grip __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from dannyt@frisurf.no Sun Feb 24 05:05:15 2002 g1OB5E801659 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:05:14 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: I'm back [:-)] Hi friends, after a few months I've finaly gotten me a new laptop, and are again online,now from NZ... We was down visiting Ian and Nova Kearny, and they made us fantastic week!!And the fishing, You won't beleive it!!! Ian took me to a nice littlespringcreek, and brown trouts in the 2-3 lbs range where taking our drys.I've never experienced better fishing!! I don't dare to post any pix to thelist (remember the last time I did) but Ill asure You, it was awsome!! Now I'm out trying to earn me money to get down to the gathering in March.I've heard a few of You're coming over from US..... stay happy,danny from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Feb 24 05:41:48 2002 g1OBfl802218 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:41:47 - for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:41:37 - Subject: cleaning the garage! Well, the monster lathe is now installed in a position where Ican actually USE it. (instead of hiding behind my motorcycle as was it's previous home) this is a big, OLD wood lathe. It is something like 6 ft long or more. But I think I can turn grips on it! Also if I can figure out how to make reel seats, I have a source for native hardwood. the scraps from the stuff Imake on my scrollsaw are about the right size. with Those smaller scraps, maybe I can make keychains eh? Looking at making some nice reelseats (once I learn how) out of Cherry, Oak, Sycamore, cypress, Walnut, even Box Elder (IF you guys like a white wood with a red/pink staining running through it!) I can even find Spalted Maple! Now THAT is cool! and maybe some exotics such as Paduk, Cocobolo, Pink Ivory and some others.At this point this is all speculation and for enjoyment. IF I get this thing where I want it,and IF the reel seats work for me, there is a possibility that I can make them on a more or less commercialbasis....maybe. Until that time, Iwill probably consume the few I make myself, and possibly send a few to people who like to experiment with my stuff! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 24 05:48:08 2002 g1OBm7802446 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:48:07 - ;Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:48:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes ................ have never had it burn in the oven when heat treating rough sections either, unless I dummied up and left it in too long, inwhich case the cane was burned,too. John, How long was too long in the oven to burn the cotton glace? In early days Iused this and had it burn and scorch a rod. The really nice thing about thisstuff is it is so accessible. Regards, Steve from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Feb 24 05:49:04 2002 g1OBn4802501 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:49:04 - Subject: Re: Persistent problem In a message dated 2/23/02 10:49:28 PM Central Standard Time, fbcwin@3g.quik.com writes: I want to echo this sentiment! EVERYONE on this list has been helpful to me at one time or another! People have sent me stuff and loaned me stuff, and mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Feb 24 06:38:50 2002 g1OCcm803412 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:38:48 - "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) Had the same thing happen when I bought my lathe. I made what was basically a bolt and called Sandy (my wife) to show what a clever boy she has as a husband.She asked me what I plan on doing with all the swarf now I made it.They keep your feet on the ground. Without them we'd all believe our own bull shit. [:-)] Tony I could not contain my excitment so I called my wife down to see how the whole shabang worked. I found a butt section cut off and explained how arodwas made up out of many tapered triangles. I took the roughed strip andputit into the hold down clamp. I showed how the taper bar rolled on the trackand bumped the hold down bed and strip up into the cutters. I pulled thecutters out of the box and showed how when paired up side by side, theyformed a triangle. I pointed out the increase in the taper bars and how thatwould take more off the bamboo forming the smaller tips. As I pulled thebarthrough I showed how the cane was moving up and more would be cut off. Iexplained where the pulleys and motors that drive the cutters and the chaindrive would go. I pulled the strip through and rejoiced as the bardisengaged as it travelled to the end of its path.My wife's reply, "That's it?"My head hung low. Disbelief showed on my face."I'm sorry honey. I just thought it would do more." When will I ever learn,Bob ps., Oh yeah. 5 minutes later she asked, "That thing won't be running allday long while we're at work, will it?" /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html First snow, then silence.This thousand dollar screen diesSo beautifully. Unknown /*************************************************************************/ from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Feb 24 06:51:42 2002 g1OCpf803869 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:51:41 - for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:51:30 - Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) In a message dated 2/24/02 6:41:01 AM Central Standard Time, avyoung@iinet.net.au writes: I am always bringing home "bargains and strays" You should have seen her when I came home with a free motorcycle! That was better than theMalimute that turned up at work though! She LIKES motorcycles! (I still have the bike, and yes it runs!) I too came home with a lathe once. It is now wroking too. She sometimes gives me hell, but without her, Iwould have to wash my own socks and would eat a LOT of microwave dinners!Note* I have been trying mightily to get SWMBO to open a resturant! Not fancy food mind, just good old midwest "comfort food" so far she hasresisted and I can never seem to shed this extra baggage around my belly! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 24 06:52:53 2002 g1OCqr803914 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:52:53 - g1OCqpE29668 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:52:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) Last year when the Sunflowers were coming up in the flower box, my wifeasked meif I could spare some of those skinny sticks to hold up the sunflower stems.What could I do but share some of them. She don't want them anymore, saysshegot too many splinters from the ones I gave her.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Brian D. Creek" wrote: My wife's favorite part of my rodmaking is all the nice garden stakes Ileave when I sort through the split stuff. And Bob, God help us all if the truth ever gets out about how much wespendon all these "toys." Brian Brian----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Maulucci" Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 11:10 PMSubject: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) As some of you know, I bought an old production mill and have been spending my time setting it up between handplaning the latest orders. I have beenvery very excited about getting it up and running, and many guys on the list have been helping me with little things that needed answering, like power,cutters, etc....Today, I finally got it reassembled after a grueling (very cold outside inthe garage) time hauling all the workbenches out of the way, cleaning up,and lugging all the pieces down in the basement shop. I had to disconnectthe very very heavy motor in order to get the main unit down the stairs.Ireassembled the whole main section, the cutter head section, and thearmsthat form the infeed bed and the outfeed's chain driven unit. I spentmanyhours bolting, repositioning, and tweaking all the parts, figuring the unit out as I went along, looking over and over at the few pictures of theassembled machine I have. I did not reattach the dual voltage motors, asIam taking them to be looked at and possibly rewired to 110.I wanted to see how the unit worked, so I took a roughed strip and attached it to the hold down. I figured it out and manually pulled the chain andwatched as the taper bar moved through the machine setting the magicinmotion.I could not contain my excitment so I called my wife down to see how thewhole shabang worked. I found a butt section cut off and explained how a rod was made up out of many tapered triangles. I took the roughed strip and put it into the hold down clamp. I showed how the taper bar rolled on the track and bumped the hold down bed and strip up into the cutters. I pulled thecutters out of the box and showed how when paired up side by side, theyformed a triangle. I pointed out the increase in the taper bars and how that would take more off the bamboo forming the smaller tips. As I pulled the bar through I showed how the cane was moving up and more would be cut off.Iexplained where the pulleys and motors that drive the cutters and the chain drive would go. I pulled the strip through and rejoiced as the bardisengaged as it travelled to the end of its path.My wife's reply, "That's it?"My head hung low. Disbelief showed on my face."I'm sorry honey. I just thought it would do more." When will I ever learn,Bob ps., Oh yeah. 5 minutes later she asked, "That thing won't be running allday long while we're at work, will it?" from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 24 07:02:17 2002 g1OD2H804396 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:02:17 - for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:02:18 - Subject: Re: Al Grombacher, Computer Bug? Ted;Me too. I think he must have subscribed to the list with the phibredaccount, then dropped it without unsubscribing first. I hope he gets itstraightened out soon.john Ted wrote: I have now received 4 "undeliveral message" errors for Al Grombacher, butIhaven't sent him a message. Is this a bug of some sort? from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 24 07:12:16 2002 g1ODCG804804 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:12:16 - for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:12:18 - Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes Steve;I once allowed my attention to wander and left a rod in the oven forabout an hour, the cotton covered polyester turned a beautiful chestnutbrown, over cane strips that were pretty much turned to pencil lead. Thethread did leave an intersting pattern on the surface of the bamboo tho.Now when I'm heat treating and the wife comes to the shop, I tellher"I'm busy, go away!!!", it only takes me a day or two to get out ofthe dog house afterwards, well worth the price.john Steven trauthwein wrote: ................ have never had it burn in the oven when heat treating rough sections either, unless I dummied up and left it in too long, inwhich case the cane was burned,too. John, How long was too long in the oven to burn the cotton glace? In early days Iused this and had it burn and scorch a rod. The really nice thing about thisstuff is it is so accessible. Regards, Steve from bob@downandacross.com Sun Feb 24 07:19:59 2002 g1ODJw805097 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:19:58 - 24 Feb 2002 08:19:52 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) Oh are you right. Do not ever show them what $200 wort of good cork lookslike."That's it?" Best, Bob -----Original Message----- And Bob, God help us all if the truth ever gets out about how much we spendon all these "toys." from bob@downandacross.com Sun Feb 24 07:20:00 2002 g1ODJx805098 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:19:59 - 24 Feb 2002 08:19:53 -0500 Subject: RE: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) I remember watching River Dance for the first time. I think it was Christmasa few years back. My inlaws were all glued to the TV set. Mt brother-in-lawsaid, "Bob, how come you're not watching this? Check these guys out. It'samazing!"I could not say anything but, "Yeah, it's so....masculine." And I walkedback into the kitchen to get another beer. -----Original Message----- Chicks, go figure. And my wife wanted to know why I didn't get upand join astanding ovation along with everyone else at the end of River Dance... from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 24 07:35:02 2002 g1ODZ1805790 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:35:01 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:34:35 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) I can relate to what you guys are saying. The first year Rose was here, shestarted placing some hanging baskets all over the place, and planting somelate growing flowers, etc. (She got here in July 2000). I came home fromwork one day and found some of those "skinny sticks" of kawayan (tagalog it until a couple days later when trying to find some strips that I waslooking to make a rod with. Guess where they were? After a few deep breaths I patiently explained to her where the scrap stripswould be stored from that point on. I think I have her understanding the concept of "Catch and Release" now.When she first asked me what I did with the fish, and I told her she thoughtI was crazy. She told me that if she caught a fish she would "cook him andeat him". Man, I love that woman. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker Last year when the Sunflowers were coming up in the flower box, my wife asked me if I could spare some of those skinny sticks to hold up the sunflower stems. What could I do but share some of them. She don't want them anymore,says she got too many splinters from the ones I gave her.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 24 07:37:17 2002 g1ODbH805970 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:37:17 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:36:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) I think it's the "cod pieces" that make them look that way. lololololol Deceptive isn't it. =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) I remember watching River Dance for the first time. I think it was Christmas a few years back. My inlaws were all glued to the TV set. Mt brother-in-law said, "Bob, how come you're not watching this? Check these guys out. It'samazing!"I could not say anything but, "Yeah, it's so....masculine." And I walkedback into the kitchen to get another beer. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Chicks, go figure. And my wife wanted to know why I didn't get upand join astanding ovation along with everyone else at the end of River Dance... from dickay@alltel.net Sun Feb 24 07:45:08 2002 g1ODj8806325 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:45:08 - srv.alltel.net Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:45:06 -0600 Subject: Re: guide feet Dennis, Why not file them on the bottom side, the side that will be againstthe cane? Then you won't have to blacken them.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: guide feet Dennis;Do any wiping with alcohol before you use the magic marker on them.Varnish won't make the marker bleed into the wraps, the solventsvarnish has in it won't dissolve the solvent in the marker.john "Aebersold, Dennis R" wrote: I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the black finish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of it came off when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleeds into the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Pls???- dennis aebersold from pohl@earthlink.net Sun Feb 24 07:52:41 2002 g1ODqe806767 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:52:40 - helo=kathypohl) id 16ez4x-0000d0-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:52:40 -0800 Subject: Homier 7x12 Has or does anyone use one of these for rod building? from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Sun Feb 24 07:58:37 2002 g1ODwa807053 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:58:36 - Sun, 24 Feb 2002 05:58:31 -0800 Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:58:30 GMT Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related FILETIME=[578727C0:01C1BD3B] All-I am in the process of building my wife a Sir "D" (blonde, like her hair!)and I am pretty excited. Why? Well, there's no explaining the time, the money, the catalogs, the tools, the email or the fact that she will never be able to park her car in the garage again. But put a rod made just on a lazy Sunday afternoon, and watch the look on her face when a feisty little trout puts on it's best Moby Dick impersonnation. My cheap talk and explaining will pale in comparison to the experience on the water with her husband. Give it a shot! It's tough to make rods in the dog house. Eamon _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from oakmere@carol.net Sun Feb 24 08:18:34 2002 g1OEIY807962 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:18:34 -0600 g1OEIOs27966 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:18:28 -0500 Subject: RE: Question - Rod Glues Folks: There has been an excellent discussion about the three types of glues -epon, urac, and nyatex. While the discussion moves forward, my issue as a"newbie" is - Where can one find in a single source that is a goodcomparison of these three glues? Issues could be: shelf life and requiredholding environment, set up times, removal of binder string difficulty,need for heat setting, etc.. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Best, Frank Frank Paul, "GreyFox"TroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Feb 24 08:23:15 2002 g1OENF808505 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:23:15 - g1OENA806788 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:23:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes I have a little story about my oven and a tip section.Had a friend over to make a rod. We finished the tip section and glued it up.Thatwas when I was still using the Elmer's glue, had to do one section at at time.Itwas late and for a better place to put the section I stuck it in the oven forsafekeeping till he could come back to glue up the butt section. I guess you knowwhatI am leading up to.About a week later I had some strips to heat treat. So I turned the oven onsothat it would come up to tempt when I was ready. About a half hour later Igot acall from my friend telling he was free and wanted to come over to glue thebuttsection. Now!!!!! where did I put that tip section!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You guessed it,I still had it in the oven. I offered to make another tip but he said he liked thedark tip and it made a nice two tone rod. He has been using this rod on aregularbasis for almost three years. In fact, I saw it yesterday at our FF club's "TieIn". Was asking me why the wraps turned milky. He used color preserver onthewraps.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Steve;I once allowed my attention to wander and left a rod in the oven forabout an hour, the cotton covered polyester turned a beautiful chestnutbrown, over cane strips that were pretty much turned to pencil lead. Thethread did leave an intersting pattern on the surface of the bamboo tho.Now when I'm heat treating and the wife comes to the shop, I tellher"I'm busy, go away!!!", it only takes me a day or two to get out ofthe dog house afterwards, well worth the price.john Steven trauthwein wrote: ................ have never had it burn in the oven when heat treating rough sections either, unless I dummied up and left it in too long, inwhich case the cane was burned,too. John, How long was too long in the oven to burn the cotton glace? In early daysIused this and had it burn and scorch a rod. The really nice thing aboutthisstuff is it is so accessible. Regards, Steve from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sun Feb 24 08:36:49 2002 g1OEam809104 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:36:48 - Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:33:47 -0600 Subject: RE: Epon no, Nyatex yes Where to you get Nyatex. On the tips archive (thanks todd, I use it all thetime) someone said you most buy five gallons at a time? I'm getting ever soclose to gluing up my first blank and will probably need all the workingtime I can get. Thanks in advance. Darrin -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes ................ have never had it burn in the oven when heat treating rough sections either, unless I dummied up and left it in too long, inwhich case the cane was burned,too. John, How long was too long in the oven to burn the cotton glace? In early days Iused this and had it burn and scorch a rod. The really nice thing about thisstuff is it is so accessible. Regards, Steve from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 24 08:39:57 2002 g1OEdu809366 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:39:56 - for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 07:40:00 - Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related Eamon;Obviously, you need a bigger dog house, LOLjohn Eamon Lee wrote: All-I am in the process of building my wife a Sir "D" (blonde, like herhair!)and I am pretty excited. Why? Well, there's no explaining the time,the money, the catalogs, the tools, the email or the fact that she willnever be able to park her car in the garage again. But put a rod made just on a lazy Sunday afternoon, and watch the look on her face when a feistylittle trout puts on it's best Moby Dick impersonnation. My cheap talk andexplaining will pale in comparison to the experience on the water with herhusband. Give it a shot! It's tough to make rods in the dog house. Eamon _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.http://www.hotmail.com from bamboorodmaker@hotmail.com Sun Feb 24 08:42:51 2002 g1OEgo809607 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:42:50 - Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:42:44 -0800 Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:42:44 GMT Subject: Re: Homier 7x 12 FILETIME=[8531C580:01C1BD41] Mark I use a Harbor Freight 7 x10 lathe for rodmaking. I suspect it is similar to work the lathe- i.e. turn/hog steels- it works fine. My lathe is only a 10 inch rod making. Chat with friends online,try MSN Messenger: ClickHere from bamboorodmaker@hotmail.com Sun Feb 24 08:58:27 2002 g1OEwQ810334 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 08:58:26 - Sun, 24 Feb 2002 06:58:21 -0800 Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:58:20 GMT Subject: Todd's chat room FILETIME=[B34D2340:01C1BD43] Hey, Todd T's site has a cool chat room anyone want to shoot thes**t?I'm there:))Tony Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Join the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from caneman@clnk.com Sun Feb 24 09:26:10 2002 g1OFQA810893 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:26:10 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: guide feet Easier solution, just use snake brand guides. The feet are dressed beforethe guides are plated and you don't have to dress them. I'm a Snake Brandaddict, and will use NOTHING else! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: guide feet Dennis, Why not file them on the bottom side, the side that will be against the cane? Then you won't have to blacken them.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 8:52 PMSubject: Re: guide feet Dennis;Do any wiping with alcohol before you use the magic marker on them.Varnish won't make the marker bleed into the wraps, the solventsvarnish has in it won't dissolve the solvent in the marker.john "Aebersold, Dennis R" wrote: I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the black finish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most ofit came off when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleeds into the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Pls??? -dennis aebersold from caneman@clnk.com Sun Feb 24 09:39:00 2002 g1OFcx811320 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:39:00 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes I never was that tactful, John... for me it was always "If this isn't life and death, then get the hell outof the shop! Go cook or do dishes or vacuumor something, but leave me alone... I'm working!" Do you think that explains why I went through more wives than mostpeople do suits? or maybe it's because I USED to think that wives are muchlike suits... good for social functions, not worth a damn in the shop! Notethat I said "used to think".I think I'll shut up now, before the more gentle gender on the listserveput me on their "Lynch List" *S*But... I did enjoy RiverDance! Must be my sensitive side! LOLSeriously, out of three, I did have one wife that was very supportive.She didn't care for flyfishing, but always encouraged me to be a goodrodmaker and always pretended that she was interested in what I was doinginthe shop. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon no, Nyatex yes Steve;I once allowed my attention to wander and left a rod in the oven forabout an hour, the cotton covered polyester turned a beautiful chestnutbrown, over cane strips that were pretty much turned to pencil lead. Thethread did leave an intersting pattern on the surface of the bamboo tho.Now when I'm heat treating and the wife comes to the shop, I tellher"I'm busy, go away!!!", it only takes me a day or two to get out ofthe dog house afterwards, well worth the price.john Steven trauthwein wrote: ................ have never had it burn in the oven when heat treating rough sections either, unless I dummied up and left it in too long, inwhich case the cane was burned,too. John, How long was too long in the oven to burn the cotton glace? In early days I used this and had it burn and scorch a rod. The really nice thing about this stuff is it is so accessible. Regards, Steve from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Feb 24 09:40:07 2002 g1OFe7811509 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:40:07 - g1OFhFo19467; Subject: Re: Homier 7x12 The reviews that I have read on the mini-lathe users pages indicate thatit's probably made in the same factory as the Harbor Freight and theGrizzley. Parts are interchangable.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Homier 7x12 Has or does anyone use one of these for rod building? from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Feb 24 09:48:47 2002 g1OFmk812091 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:48:46 -0600 g1OFpso19713; Subject: Re: Question - Rod Glues Call John Zimney. Call when the rates are low because he knows a lot! Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Question - Rod Glues Folks: There has been an excellent discussion about the three types of glues -epon, urac, and nyatex. While the discussion moves forward, my issue as a"newbie" is - Where can one find in a single source that is a goodcomparison of these three glues? Issues could be: shelf life and requiredholding environment, set up times, removal of binder string difficulty,need for heat setting, etc.. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Best, Frank Frank Paul, "GreyFox"TroutBeck Fly and RodSeneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from jerryy@webtv.net Sun Feb 24 10:34:53 2002 g1OGYq813134 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:34:52 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2117.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA23953; ETAsAhRORa0m6gCS0byjjHzafDpn0P0B3QIUUVltW9RBX7djVviFC8sw0RdIo60= Subject: Re: Homier 7x12 Feb 2002 10:39:48 -0500 The mainland China lathes are made by Bengbu Jinyang Household MachineTool Co. Some units will have different features, even though they aremade in the same factory. If you want comparisons there is a 7 X 12Lathe web site on Yahoo that will give you all the answers and show youwhat modifications are necessary to make it usable. Regards, Jerry Young from KyleDruey@aol.com Sun Feb 24 12:11:39 2002 g1OIBc814698 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:11:38 - for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:11:29 - Subject: Re: guide feet Not to mention that Mike, owner of Snake Brand, is a great guy to deal with... I inquired about some stripper guides several months ago and called Snake, the website just said to "ask for Mike if you have questions"... I had no idea he was the owner and once he realized I was a novice bamboo rodmaker he went out of his way for about 30' to answer any and all questions I had bamboo rod making... after I told him my financial situation, and that my $6.35 an hour grave yard shift bagging groceries at Vons wouldn't enable me to afford his beautiful agate stripper guides he just told me to call him back when I was ready to get the guides and he would make me a special"deal" hobby are great people just as Mike is... In a message dated 02/24/2002 7:26:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, caneman@clnk.com writes: Easier solution, just use snake brand guides. The feet are dressed beforethe guides are plated and you don't have to dress them. I'm a Snake Brandaddict, and will use NOTHING else!Later,BobR.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com----- Original Message -----From: "Dick & Kathy Fuhrman" Cc: Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:38 AMSubject: Re: guide feetDennis, Why not file them on the bottom side, the side that will beagainstthe cane? Then you won't have to blacken them.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: "channer" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 8:52 PMSubject: Re: guide feet Dennis;Do any wiping with alcohol before you use the magic marker on them.Varnish won't make the marker bleed into the wraps, the solventsvarnish has in it won't dissolve the solvent in the marker.john "Aebersold, Dennis R" wrote: I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore theblackfinish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when mostof it cameoff when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on thatbleedsinto the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use??Pls???-dennis aebersold ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-za03.mx.aol.com (rly-za03.mail.aol.com Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:26:44 -0500 rly- Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:26:33 -0500 g1OFQV810931; g1OFQA810893 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Message-ID: From: "Bob Nunley" Cc: References:3C785572.E21E267C@frontier.net>DickKathyFuhrman>Subject: Re: guide feetDate: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 09:24:25 -0600 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Feb 24 14:42:08 2002 g1OKg8817328 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:42:08 - 24 Feb 2002 12:42:07 PST Subject: Re: Taper for Leonard Letort 40 Sure wish I could . I am thinking of going toLivinston MT in August , mayber there . Cool theme .Did you ead the article where John G. put a new setin his Leonard on a 10 lb brookie in the NorthCountry ? I think it was in Rod & Reel.--- Sdc2thdoc@aol.com wrote: Attend the Catskill Gathering this year and I willbring my 38H along. The theme for this years meeting is Leonard Rods. Sept 7& 8 in Rosco and Livingston Manor, NY. Best' "Doc" __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sun Feb 24 14:54:05 2002 g1OKs4817837 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:54:04 - Subject: BMJ-CRACKPOT fly study g1OKs5817838 It is somewhat slow, so instead ofmaking rods, try this URL - You might findit as amusing as I did: http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/317/7174/1678 regards, carsten from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Feb 24 15:15:00 2002 g1OLEx818515 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:14:59 -0600 (authenticated) Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:16:24 -0800 Subject: Re: Question - Rod Glues Frank, Brian's advice is right on the money. Might want to check the Rodmakerspage for John's "Adhesives Update". Harry "Frank W. Paul" wrote: "newbie" is - Where can one find in a single source that is a goodcomparison of these three glues? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from dybam@oct.net Sun Feb 24 15:55:09 2002 g1OLt9819432 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:55:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Question - splicing [4000080e]. Communications, Inc. Does anyone here have a used plicing form for sale?----Mark- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Question - Rod Glues Frank, Brian's advice is right on the money. Might want to check the Rodmakers page for John's "Adhesives Update". Harry "Frank W. Paul" wrote: "newbie" is - Where can one find in a single source that is a goodcomparison of these three glues? --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 24 16:09:08 2002 g1OM97819962 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:09:07 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:09:06 -0500 "RodMakers Listserve" Subject: Chat Room It's a lazy Sunday afternoon, let's all go over to Todd's website into thechat room and shoot the breeze for a while. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Feb 24 17:03:37 2002 g1ON3a825427 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:03:37 - (authenticated) Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:04:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Chat Room Joe, Sounds okay to me, but when I logged in, it was lonesome in there bymyself. Perhaps we might all agree on a time to meet there??? I'd suggest Sunday evenings about 9pm Central Time (10 eastern, 8mountain, 7 Pacific -- no clue about international times) Anyone up for it? Harry Bamboo Joe wrote: It's a lazy Sunday afternoon, let's all go over to Todd's website into thechat room and shoot the breeze for a while. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from rmoon@ida.net Sun Feb 24 17:18:39 2002 g1ONIc825902 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:18:38 - Subject: Re: Chat Room Harry,Do think we can outpull the Olympic Closing Ceremony? Maybe a little later,even though it would be hard on the guys on the east coast?Ralph Harry Boyd wrote: Joe, Sounds okay to me, but when I logged in, it was lonesome in there bymyself. Perhaps we might all agree on a time to meet there??? I'd suggest Sunday evenings about 9pm Central Time (10 eastern, 8mountain, 7 Pacific -- no clue about international times) Anyone up for it? Harry Bamboo Joe wrote: It's a lazy Sunday afternoon, let's all go over to Todd's website into thechat room and shoot the breeze for a while. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Feb 24 17:40:30 2002 g1ONeT826535 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:40:30 - (authenticated) Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:40:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Chat Room Ralph,As is so often the case, you might be exactly right. I was being a littleselfish since I'll be busy till about 8 pm Central time. Any other suggestions Harry "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: Harry,Do think we can outpull the Olympic Closing Ceremony? Maybe a little later,even though it would be hard on the guys on the east coast? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Feb 24 17:44:04 2002 g1ONi4826844 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:44:04 - Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related In a message dated 2/24/02 8:00:36 AM Central Standard Time, eamon_lee@hotmail.com writes: Yeah! the planing form sticks out the door ! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Feb 24 17:46:03 2002 g1ONk2827097 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:46:02 - g1ONj5C14949; "RodMakers Listserve" Subject: Re: Chat Room Your time is probably a good one for most Sunday Evenings. Tonight's justan aberation.. Of course, if there's a James Bond marathon that'll cut youraudience way down, too. . . Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chat Room Ralph,As is so often the case, you might be exactly right. I was being a little selfish since I'll be busy till about 8 pm Central time. Any other suggestions Harry "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: Harry,Do think we can outpull the Olympic Closing Ceremony? Maybe a little later, even though it would be hard on the guys on the east coast? -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Soignier54@aol.com Sun Feb 24 17:52:48 2002 g1ONqm827580 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:52:48 - Subject: re: dowel pins Harry, I'm relatively new at this but I have built 2 sets of forms, 1 steel set and 1 out of 360 brass. When looking for dowel pins, I found a company ( J&L Industrial Supply )-no interest. Their web site: www.jlindustrial.com. There's one near my home so I just pick up what I've ordered over the phone. They do sell what they call oversize dowels. They are .001" over the rated size and may work to fix the sloppy fit of your current pins. They list in their catalogue the 100 per box price, but they broke a box down and sold me only what I needed. Somewhere between .75-.95 cents apiece for 1/4"-3/8" pins. For some reason they won't do that with threaded products but theywill try. If there is too much play, .001" won't help all that much. If they don't want to sell you what you want, let me know and get them for you. Another solution, if you have the lathe, is make your own........ possibly one at time depending on the slop at each station. Trying to make swelled butts on forms not designed too?? That's the cheapest way to go and still a lot eaiser/cheaper than building a new set of forms. Good luck, Brian Smith Harry, I'm relatively new at this but I have built 2 sets of forms, 1 steel setand 1 out of 360 brass. When looking for dowel pins, I found a company (J&L Industrial Supply )-no interest. Their web site: www.jlindustrial.com.There's one near my home so I just pick up what I've ordered over the phone.They do sell what they call oversize dowels. They are .001" over the ratedsize and may work to fix the sloppy fit of your current pins. They list in theircatalogue the 100 per box price, but they broke a box down and sold me onlywhat I needed. Somewhere between .75-.95 cents apiece for 1/4"-3/8" pins. the dowel pins. Anyway, if you think it might be the answer give it a try. Ifthere is too much play, .001" won't help all that much. If they don't want tosell you what you want, let me know and get them for you. Another solution,if you have the lathe, is make your own........ possibly one at time de!pending on the slop at each station. Trying to make swelled butts on formsnot designed too?? That's the cheapest way to go and still a lot Brian Smith from canazon@mindspring.com Sun Feb 24 17:53:25 2002 g1ONrO827664 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 17:53:24 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16f8SI-0005Xm-00; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:53:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Al Grombacher, Computer Bug? i got a few of them also. it has an attachment to it. but we just hit thedelete.mike----- Original Message ----- Subject: Al Grombacher, Computer Bug? I have now received 4 "undeliveral message" errors for Al Grombacher, but I haven't sent him a message. Is this a bug of some sort? from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sun Feb 24 18:19:20 2002 g1P0JJ828697 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:19:19 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:18:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Chat Room Harry: 10:00pm Eastern time sounds good to me. I'll be there Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chat Room Joe, Sounds okay to me, but when I logged in, it was lonesome in there bymyself. Perhaps we might all agree on a time to meet there??? I'd suggest Sunday evenings about 9pm Central Time (10 eastern, 8mountain, 7 Pacific -- no clue about international times) Anyone up for it? Harry Bamboo Joe wrote: It's a lazy Sunday afternoon, let's all go over to Todd's website into the chat room and shoot the breeze for a while. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bob@downandacross.com Sun Feb 24 18:40:37 2002 g1P0ea829296 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:40:36 - Subject: RE: Chat Room Me too, if SWMBO allows it. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Chat Room Harry: 10:00pm Eastern time sounds good to me. I'll be there Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chat Room Joe, Sounds okay to me, but when I logged in, it was lonesome in there bymyself. Perhaps we might all agree on a time to meet there??? I'd suggest Sunday evenings about 9pm Central Time (10 eastern, 8mountain, 7 Pacific -- no clue about international times) Anyone up for it? Harry Bamboo Joe wrote: It's a lazy Sunday afternoon, let's all go over to Todd's website into the chat room and shoot the breeze for a while. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Mon Feb 25 01:00:47 2002 g1P70j810636 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:00:46 -0600 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:00:26 +1300(NZDT) +1300 Subject: Braiding machine I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night and was blown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probably the right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and will probably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc. The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braiding machine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turned anything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around a bit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I am looking forward to meeting up with some of the 'names' at the Thanks David Kennedy from geert.poorteman@undp.org Mon Feb 25 02:43:33 2002 g1P8hW812617 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:43:32 -0600 g1P8hUA03971 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 03:43:30 -0500 Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:23:41 +0200 Subject: Re: Braiding machine Hi David,I make Dacron lines from big game fishing line, but I am very interested in theinstructions for making a silk fly line. Can you shere it??Geert Poorteman d.kennedy a Äcrit: I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night andwasblown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probablythe right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and willprobably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc.The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braidingmachine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turnedanything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around abit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I am looking forward to meeting up with some of the 'names' at the Thanks David Kennedy from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Feb 25 04:32:53 2002 g1PAWp813849 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 04:32:52 -0600 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Braiding machine David,you have instructions on braiding a line? Don't be shy, let us know how. Are you using any you've done ? Tony At 07:49 PM 2/25/02 +1300, d.kennedy wrote: I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night andwasblown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probablythe right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and willprobably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc.The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure,My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from splitcane@attbi.com Mon Feb 25 07:32:45 2002 g1PDWi816019 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:32:44 - Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:32:39 +0000 Subject: Re: guide feet I had the same problem a few years ago after dressing the black guides, thenusing a permanent marker to reblacken the feet and yes they did bleed thruthe wraps when I applied the spar... Quick fix: Scribble black permanent marker in a small area on a small metalpaint lid, apply clear lacquer with a touch-up brush to the permanent markerarea. Apply to the dressed area on the feet, makes a nice translucent blackthat dries quick and spar will not touch it... You could just use black lacquer paint, but the clear has many other uses infinishing out a rod and is handy to have around. You can get small 1ozbottles of lacquer at your local hobby shop for a few bucks. Remember: youcan put oil based over lacquer, but never put lacquer over oil based... I agree the Snake Brand are very nice and easy and worth the money, butsometimes you have to work with what you got... Take Care, Dave Denver Dave's Vintage Bamboo Rodswww.denverdave.net ----- Original Message ----- Subject: guide feet I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the blackfinish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of it came off when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleeds into the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Pls???- dennis aebersold from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Feb 25 07:41:00 2002 g1PDf0816397 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:41:00 - id ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:33:40 -0500 id D56AMMY6; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:33:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related All of you guys talking about SWMBO have me about ROTFL! That's (SWMBO) is my pet name for my wife now. Not that she thinks it'sterribly flattering, she keeps wondering what all the people that I talkto think of her. I just have to remind her of her favorite saying..."Ifmomma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." 'Nuff said. Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/24/02 8:00:36 AM Central Standard Time,eamon_lee@hotmail.com writes: Yeah! the planing form sticks out the door ! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from briansr@point-net.com Mon Feb 25 09:22:40 2002 Received: from g1PFMe821341 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 g1PFtFA23589; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:55:15 -0500 Message-ID:From: "brian sturrock" References:Subject: Re: Braiding rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Dave The subject in thearchives was on braided leaders,not on lines.Hope this helps.Do- able?HMMMMMMMMM :-)) Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "d.kennedy" February 25, 2002 1:49 AM Subject: Braiding machine I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night and was blown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probablythe right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and willprobably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc.The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braidingmachine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turnedanything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around abit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I am looking forward to meeting up with some of the 'names' at the Thanks David Kennedy from tedknott@cogeco.ca Mon Feb 25 09:53:29 2002 g1PFrS823306 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:53:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Braiding machine When I was a child my grandmother showed me how to braid string on a spoolwith several pins in it. The product was used to make braided rugs. Keptme busy for hours as I recall. I can't remeber how it was done, but maybesomebody in crafts knows how it is done and whether its suitable for braidngsilk lines. from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Mon Feb 25 10:20:24 2002 g1PGKN824888 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:20:23 - IAA01690; KAA15485; g1PGKc106946; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:20:18 -0800 Subject: FW: forms...... how about putting the replies on the list for those of us looking to upgradethe forms we have now. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: forms...... I'm looking into a set of upper end forms.... I've used Wagners but theBellingers are a little less expensive. Has anyone used both of these formsand would care to comment on them off list..... Mark from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Feb 25 10:44:16 2002 g1PGiF826398 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:44:15 -0600 (216.160.236.98) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Braiding machine "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" I seem to remember seeing a web site that describes how to braid taperedfurled leaders. I haven't tried it yet, but that may help. Unfortunately,I can't remember the exact URL, but I think it had something to do withClaude Freaner. You could probably do a search for his web site. Not having ever used or seen a braided line, this may not be all thathelpful. Jason On 2/24/02 11:49 PM, "d.kennedy" wrote: I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night andwasblown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probablythe right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and willprobably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc.The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braidingmachine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turnedanything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around abit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I am looking forward to meeting up with some of the 'names' at the Thanks David Kennedy from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Feb 25 10:50:56 2002 g1PGot826970 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:50:55 -0600 (216.160.236.98) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Subject: Re: Braiding machine "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Here's the URL for Claude's Furled Leader page. Hope it helps.http://members.home.com/freaner/fishing/furled.htm Jason from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Feb 25 11:06:30 2002 g1PH6U828147 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:06:30 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:06:29 - 2113.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA10236; ETAuAhUAj9w79Xq2ltBaHSTezhvlB9jDmiECFQC0cbSEdAe4A2sYG1gI+wtQRkWQoA== Subject: Rope Knurls This old subject again. Have inquired the two leading knurl mfg's.Found that a concave knurl starts at $200 ea. Didn't take it anyfurther to inquire if it was straight, diagonal or rope patterned. Backin the archives someone used one of the large milgrain wheels.Gesswein.com shows two rope pattern tools. One at .95mm and a largerone at 1.25mm. They state they are mounted on 1/8" hardened shanks. Myquestion is if that small tool will hold up on nickle silver instead ofthe precious metals they were designed for? TIA Jerry Young from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Feb 25 11:13:26 2002 g1PHDQ829096 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:13:26 -0600 id ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:06:12 -0500 id D56AMNAT; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:06:08 -0500 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: Re: Braiding machine Whoops, Looks like Claude got caught in the Home.com snafu. Claude, if you'reout there and want to post this page on the tips site, I'd be glad toadd it. Jason Swan wrote: Here's the URL for Claude's Furled Leader page. Hope it helps.http://members.home.com/freaner/fishing/furled.htm Jason -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Mon Feb 25 11:14:47 2002 Received: g1PHEk829472 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:02:36 -0500 Message- "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ Jason. I enjoy casting them, and agree with their proponents that they allowyou to fish a long tippet on a relatively short leader (see Tom Wendelburg'sbook, Catching Big Fish on Light Fly Tackle; no $ interest, of course). Asmany will know, there are fine directions for, and discussion of furledtapered leaders in Darrell Martin's book, Micropatterns. --Tom ------ NormalCleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4/* Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style- noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso- para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Jason.=A0 I enjoy casting them,and agree = with their proponents that they allow you to fish a long tippet ona relatively = short leader (see Tom Wendelburg's book, Catching Big Fish on Light = Fly Tackle; no $ interest, ofcourse).=A0 = As many willknow, there are fine directions for, and discussion of furled tapered =leaders in Darrell Martin's book, Micropatterns. =A0--Tom ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Feb 25 11:21:44 2002 Received: from Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:14:34 -0500 Received: from macatawa.org (TODDT Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id D56AMNA9; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:14:33 Message-ID:Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:18:18 - Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Braiding machine References: Content-Type: text/plain; ttalsma@macatawa.org Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENWhoops. Looks like the jokes on me, I was able to reach the site now. Sorry