Whoops, Looks like Claude got caught in the Home.com snafu. Claude, if you'reout there and want to post this page on the tips site, I'd be glad toadd it. Jason Swan wrote: Here's the URL for Claude's Furled Leader page. Hope it helps.http://members.home.com/freaner/fishing/furled.htm Jason --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Feb 25 11:22:53 2002 Received: fromexosecure-paccare-rap-pri.pacificare.com (inet-fwi-a.phs.com Relay (MMS v4.7)); Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:22:40 -0800 X-Server- Uuid:37b9e691-8261-11d3-8e30-0001fa7e659e Received: by dcembh.phs.comwith Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Feb 200209:22:04 -0800 Message-ID: "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I have seen silk fly fishingline produced on the conventional braiding machine listed on this page, butthe company is in India. Don't know what it would cost to get it delivered inthe U.S. http://www.geesons.com Darryl Hayashida Please excuse theverbiage that follows. I am sending this from work and our legal dept. puts itin automatically. This electronic message transmission, including anyattachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc.which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be forthe use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intendedrecipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of thecontents of this information is prohibited. If you have received thiselectronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a"reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies ofthe communication, including attachments. > from CALucker@aol.com MonFeb 25 11:29:36 2002 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo- CALucker@aol.com Message-ID: Date: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN -- (130 year old British cross between Field and Stream and Town and Country - - used to be weekly, now monthly) did a little piece on Noel Buxton about tenyears ago. There is a chance I saved the magazine, especially if it had apicture of his machine. I will look through my stacks. I also seem toremember a mid 80's article on silk line manufacturing in The Field (longrunning British Magazine that Skues, Halford, Goddard and Clarke and manyothers have regularly contributed to). I cannot save every issue becausethese magazines are big and heavy. I also remember an article in theFlyfishers Club of London Journal that was substantially similar to the Fieldarticle but with a single, albeit dark, photo of the braiding machine thatBuxton used. I will look through my piles of crap. Chris Lucker -- and Stream and Town and Country -- used to be weekly, now monthly) did a silk line manufacturing in The Field (long running British Magazine that Skues,Halford, Goddard and Clarke and many others have regularly contributed Journal that was substantially similar to the Field article but with a single, will look through my piles of crap. Chris Lucker -- Mon Feb 25 11:34:53 2002 Received: from natco4.southshore.com g1PHYlE22675 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 200211:34:47 -0600 Message-ID: Date:Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:31:00 -0600 From: Tony SpezioX-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept- Subject: Re: Braiding machine References:Content-Type: text/plain; flytyr@southshore.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENJason, Once you use furled leaders I don't think you will go back to a regularleader. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jason Swan wrote: I seem to remember seeing a web site that describes how to braid taperedfurled leaders. I haven't tried it yet, but that may help. Unfortunately,I can't remember the exact URL, but I think it had something to do withClaude Freaner. You could probably do a search for his web site. Not having ever used or seen a braided line, this may not be all thathelpful. Jason On 2/24/02 11:49 PM, "d.kennedy" wrote: I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night andwasblown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probablythe right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and willprobably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc.The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braidingmachine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turnedanything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around abit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I am looking forward to meeting up with some of the 'names' at the Thanks David Kennedy from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Feb 25 11:49:17 2002 g1PHnH804750 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:49:17 -0600 Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:49:15 PST Subject: Re: Braiding machine i will agree here. the industry standard, taperedknotless leader is mediocrity at it's most mediocore. timothy --- Tony Spezio wrote: Jason,Once you use furled leaders I don't think you willgo back to a regular leader.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jason Swan wrote: I seem to remember seeing a web site that describes how to braid tapered furled leaders. I haven't tried it yet, but that may help. Unfortunately, I can't remember the exact URL, but I think it had something to do with Claude Freaner. You could probably do a search Not having ever used or seen a braided line, this may not be all that helpful. Jason On 2/24/02 11:49 PM, "d.kennedy" wrote: I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night and was blown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probably the right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and will probably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc. The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braiding machine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turned anything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around a bit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I am looking forward to meeting up with some of the 'names' at the see you there! Thanks David Kennedy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 25 12:30:33 2002 g1PIUW806775 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:30:32 - id 16fPtL-00000I-00; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:30:27 -0500 Subject: Re: lathe, cork speed I run mine set very fast; ~ 1500 to 2000 RPM. I don't have the Homier but Ihave one of it's many brothers. I like it very much. I've had it for about 3years. It started out as a 7X10. When Little Machine Shop came out withthe 7X12 extension, I upgraded. I find the 7X12 capable of doing all I need. Ibuild ferrules and reelseats along with the cork handles and a bunch of otherthings. There have been several on the 7X10minilathe list that have boughtthe Homier. The only negative comments I've seen are the complaints aboutUPS shipping. It appears to be the cheapest 7X12 right now. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com pohl@earthlink.net wrote: I'm looking into lathes, what speed should cork be turned at? also, is anyone using a Homier 7 x12 that would like to comment about it. Thanks,Mark from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Feb 25 13:21:11 2002 g1PJLA809375 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:21:10 - for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:20:57 - 0225142057; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:20:57 -0500 Subject: Chat in the Bamboo Room I just want to make sure everyone is aware of Todd's bamboo rod maker'schat room that he has up and running. If any of you aren't familiar with thisyou can check it out at: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Chat_Room/chat_room.html Chatted last night with several of you and I learned a few things, had a fewlaughs, and got to know some of you better. It would be nice to have aweekly chat session. Now I am just waiting for the launch of the Nunely web cam! Thanks, Kyle from hartzell@easystreet.com Mon Feb 25 13:22:29 2002 g1PJMT809563 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:22:29 - g1PJMN822458; Subject: Re: Rope Knurls Jerry,I have usee the small Gesswien milgrain rope knurl on a few reel seatfittings and it seems to work well on nickel silver. How long it wouldlasy, I do not know.Ed Hartzell Jerry Young wrote: This old subject again. Have inquired the two leading knurl mfg's.Found that a concave knurl starts at $200 ea. Didn't take it anyfurther to inquire if it was straight, diagonal or rope patterned. Backin the archives someone used one of the large milgrain wheels.Gesswein.com shows two rope pattern tools. One at .95mm and a largerone at 1.25mm. They state they are mounted on 1/8" hardened shanks. Myquestion is if that small tool will hold up on nickle silver instead ofthe precious metals they were designed for? TIA Jerry Young from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Feb 25 13:45:49 2002 g1PJjm811486 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:45:48 - id ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:38:39 -0500 id D56AMNFR; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:38:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room OK. Since there has been some chatter about this, what do you guysthink? Sounded like 10:00 Eastern, 9:00 Central, 8:00 Mountain & 7:00Pacific on Sunday night was the first "scheduled" chat time. I'vegotten a few people who would be willing to host a session. Anybodyelse want to step up to the plate? Maybe someone would even be willingto drag someone else along. Thinking off the top of my headhere......(very dangerous in my case)...John Zimny to help withadhesives and finishes or Theodore Simroe to talk about the Leonard RodCompany. I'm sure other people could think of some other "special"people that could be invited as well. I'm usually in and out of the chat room during the day, but I don'talways check the room at night. I'm out there right now and will beuntil about 4:00 (eastern), so stop by and let me know what you think. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I just want to make sure everyone is aware of Todd's bamboo rod maker'schat room that he has up and running. If any of you aren't familiar with thisyou can check it out at: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Chat_Room/chat_room.html Chatted last night with several of you and I learned a few things, had a fewlaughs, and got to know some of you better. It would be nice to have aweekly chat session. Now I am just waiting for the launch of the Nunely web cam! Thanks, Kyle -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from canazon@mindspring.com Mon Feb 25 14:01:28 2002 Received: from g1PK1R812880 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 ([158.252.47.147] helo=oemcomputer) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net with 0500 Message-ID: , ,References:Subject: Re: Braiding machine Date: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN at the catskill gathering2000, someone, i just can't remember his name, showed how to make furledleaders. it seemed to be basically the same principal. you can add or subtractlines to make a taper. mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Swan" Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:44 AMSubject: Re: Braiding machine I seem to remember seeing a web site that describes how to braid taperedfurled leaders. I haven't tried it yet, but that may help. Unfortunately, I can't remember the exact URL, but I think it had something to do withClaude Freaner. You could probably do a search for his web site. Not having ever used or seen a braided line, this may not be all thathelpful. Jason On 2/24/02 11:49 PM, "d.kennedy" wrote: I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night and was blown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. It happens that I have some ( a lot!) silk thread that I think is probably the right denier, twist etc to make a line. I have the instructions to make a 16 strand braid MANUALLY, and willprobably have a go to make sure I am on the right track for weights etc.The production rate is about 5 cm per hour! In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braidingmachine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turnedanything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around abit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I am looking forward to meeting up with some of the 'names' at the Thanks David Kennedy from caneman@clnk.com Mon Feb 25 18:21:11 2002 g1Q0LA802339 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:21:10 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Hey, Todd. Been trying to get on the Chat room. got a problem and someonetold me you had a good computer knowledge, so I'll pick your brain.This happens to me on both your chat room and the one at FlyanglersOnline. It says that I need to contact my net. admin about configuring asocket or some BS like that. My ISP says I'm OK, but I did have a virus notlong ago that corrupted some DLL files. I went to my restore disc andwithout doing a complete restore, I did a setup on my Video Drivers again,but no change... still can't get into either chat. Any ideas? Know anymiracle cures or know which driver file I'm missing that's necessary to openyour chat and FAOL's (theirs is Volcano Chat)? Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room OK. Since there has been some chatter about this, what do you guysthink? Sounded like 10:00 Eastern, 9:00 Central, 8:00 Mountain & 7:00Pacific on Sunday night was the first "scheduled" chat time. I'vegotten a few people who would be willing to host a session. Anybodyelse want to step up to the plate? Maybe someone would even be willingto drag someone else along. Thinking off the top of my headhere......(very dangerous in my case)...John Zimny to help withadhesives and finishes or Theodore Simroe to talk about the Leonard RodCompany. I'm sure other people could think of some other "special"people that could be invited as well. I'm usually in and out of the chat room during the day, but I don'talways check the room at night. I'm out there right now and will beuntil about 4:00 (eastern), so stop by and let me know what you think. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I just want to make sure everyone is aware of Todd's bamboo rodmaker's chat room that he has up and running. If any of you aren't familiar withthis you can check it out at: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Chat_Room/chat_room.html Chatted last night with several of you and I learned a few things, had a few laughs, and got to know some of you better. It would be nice to have aweekly chat session. Now I am just waiting for the launch of the Nunely web cam! Thanks, Kyle --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from jojo@ipa.net Mon Feb 25 18:31:55 2002 g1Q0Vs802875 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:31:54 -0600 helo=default) id 16fVWw-00047U-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: Re: furled leaders Guys, Guillermo Magari=F1os, on this List, is making and selling furled =leaders in Argentina. I have some, and they are of very good quality. =One other list member is evaluating them, also. They are also very =reasonably priced, 7 feet long, and good for 4x - 8x. You can write =Guillermo at classictackle@hotmail.com or guille32@tutopia.com (Yes, I =have a vested interest in this. Guillermo is paying me 100% of the gross = M-D Thanks for the website on making furled leaders, Jason. I enjoy =casting them, and agree with their proponents that they allow you to =fish a long tippet on a relatively short leader (see Tom Wendelburg's =book, Catching Big Fish on Light Fly Tackle; no $ interest, of course). =As many will know, there are fine directions for, and discussion of =furled tapered leaders in Darrell Martin's book, Micropatterns. --Tom NormalCleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 77.95pt 1.0in =77.95pt; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text- underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}P.MsoPlainText { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoPlainText { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoPlainText { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Courier New"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.SpellE { mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes}SPAN.GramE { mso-style-name: ""; mso-gram-e: yes}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Guys, Guillermo Magari=F1os,on = making and selling furled leaders in Argentina. I have some, and they = very good quality. One other list member is evaluating them, also. They = very reasonably priced, 7 feet long, and good for 4x - 8x. You can write = Guillermo at classictackle@hotmail.com&n=bsp;or guille32@tutopia.com (Yes, I = vested interest in this. Guillermo is paying me 100% of the gross for = 10 yr.. Riiiiiightt.) M-D Goodmann, Tom = Thanks for the website on making furled = = agree with their proponents that they allow you to fish a long tippet = Big Fish on = = directions for, and discussion of furled tapered leaders in Darrell = Tom from caneman@clnk.com Mon Feb 25 18:34:44 2002 g1Q0Yh803150 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:34:43 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Sorry, Guys, didn't mean to post that to the entire list. Was just tryingto pick Todd's brain a little... BUT, if anyone else has any suggestions,I'm sure open to them! Tnx,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Hey, Todd. Been trying to get on the Chat room. got a problem and someone told me you had a good computer knowledge, so I'll pick your brain.This happens to me on both your chat room and the one at FlyanglersOnline. It says that I need to contact my net. admin about configuring asocket or some BS like that. My ISP says I'm OK, but I did have a virus not long ago that corrupted some DLL files. I went to my restore disc andwithout doing a complete restore, I did a setup on my Video Drivers again,but no change... still can't get into either chat. Any ideas? Know anymiracle cures or know which driver file I'm missing that's necessary to open your chat and FAOL's (theirs is Volcano Chat)? Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Todd Talsma" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:42 PMSubject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room OK. Since there has been some chatter about this, what do you guysthink? Sounded like 10:00 Eastern, 9:00 Central, 8:00 Mountain & 7:00Pacific on Sunday night was the first "scheduled" chat time. I'vegotten a few people who would be willing to host a session. Anybodyelse want to step up to the plate? Maybe someone would even be willingto drag someone else along. Thinking off the top of my headhere......(very dangerous in my case)...John Zimny to help withadhesives and finishes or Theodore Simroe to talk about the Leonard RodCompany. I'm sure other people could think of some other "special"people that could be invited as well. I'm usually in and out of the chat room during the day, but I don'talways check the room at night. I'm out there right now and will beuntil about 4:00 (eastern), so stop by and let me know what you think. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I just want to make sure everyone is aware of Todd's bamboo rod maker's chat room that he has up and running. If any of you aren't familiar withthis you can check it out at: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Chat_Room/chat_room.html Chatted last night with several of you and I learned a few things, had a few laughs, and got to know some of you better. It would be nice to have a weekly chat session. Now I am just waiting for the launch of the Nunely web cam! Thanks, Kyle --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from cathcreek@hotmail.com Mon Feb 25 19:10:06 2002 g1Q1A5804354 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:10:05 - Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:09:56 -0800 Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:09:55 GMT Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room FILETIME=[4D8B93F0:01C1BE62] Bob, my only issue is that no one is ever there when I log in. I guess they are trying to tell me something! Rob From: "Bob Nunley" CC: Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo RoomDate: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:32:55 - 0600 Sorry, Guys, didn't mean to post that to the entire list. Was just tryingto pick Todd's brain a little... BUT, if anyone else has any suggestions,I'm sure open to them! Tnx,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:19 PMSubject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Hey, Todd. Been trying to get on the Chat room. got a problem and someone told me you had a good computer knowledge, so I'll pick your brain.This happens to me on both your chat room and the one at FlyanglersOnline. It says that I need to contact my net. admin about configuring a socket or some BS like that. My ISP says I'm OK, but I did have a virus not long ago that corrupted some DLL files. I went to my restore disc andwithout doing a complete restore, I did a setup on my Video Drivers again, but no change... still can't get into either chat. Any ideas? Know anymiracle cures or know which driver file I'm missing that's necessary to open your chat and FAOL's (theirs is Volcano Chat)? Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Todd Talsma" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:42 PMSubject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room OK. Since there has been some chatter about this, what do you guysthink? Sounded like 10:00 Eastern, 9:00 Central, 8:00 Mountain & 7:00Pacific on Sunday night was the first "scheduled" chat time. I'vegotten a few people who would be willing to host a session. Anybodyelse want to step up to the plate? Maybe someone would even be willing to drag someone else along. Thinking off the top of my headhere......(very dangerous in my case)...John Zimny to help withadhesives and finishes or Theodore Simroe to talk about the Leonard Rod Company. I'm sure other people could think of some other "special"people that could be invited as well. I'm usually in and out of the chat room during the day, but I don'talways check the room at night. I'm out there right now and will beuntil about 4:00 (eastern), so stop by and let me know what you think. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I just want to make sure everyone is aware of Todd's bamboo rod maker's chat room that he has up and running. If any of you aren't familiar with this you can check it out at: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Chat_Room/chat_room.html Chatted last night with several of you and I learned a few things, hada few laughs, and got to know some of you better. It would be nice to havea weekly chat session. Now I am just waiting for the launch of the Nunely web cam! Thanks, Kyle --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from marbert@twave.net Mon Feb 25 19:10:50 2002 g1Q1An804482 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:10:49 - Subject: Happy Camper Several weeks ago, I stumbled across Bob Maulucci's reference to Tony =Larson's NS ferrules. I don't know either of these gentlemen, but =(laboring under the assumption that no one on this list would lead me =astray) since the cost of good ferrules from other suppliers is somewhat =steep, I thought I'd give it a whirl. This past weekend, thirteen sets of beautifully crafted ferrules arrived =in the mail box. I've used ferrules from most suppliers.........been =satisfied with some, disappointed with others. The quality and price of = Hopefully, more of you will try some of Tony's ferrules in the near =future. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And of course, I have =no interest in this company, other than being able to obtain quality = Bob Marbert Several weeks ago, I stumbled across Bob Maulucci's reference to = (laboring under the assumption that no one on this list would lead me = since the cost of good ferrules from other suppliers is somewhat steep, = thought I'd give it a whirl. This past weekend, thirteen sets of beautifully crafted ferrules = Hopefully, more of you will try some of Tony's ferrules in the near = have no interest in this company, other than being able to obtain = Bob Marbert from caneman@clnk.com Mon Feb 25 19:15:41 2002 g1Q1Fe804836 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:15:40 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Happy Camper Bob,I absolutely agree. I started using Tony's ferrules right after I =met him in Grayling last year. Simply put, I love 'em. Great stuff at =any price. The only problem is the restriction of sizes, but according =to his website, he plans, soon, to expand the range of sizes he offers.Not only that, Tony has been very kind and helpful to me offlist =with my constant badgering of him about machine shops and tooling. He's =a great guy and sells a great product. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Happy Camper Several weeks ago, I stumbled across Bob Maulucci's reference to Tony =Larson's NS ferrules. I don't know either of these gentlemen, but =(laboring under the assumption that no one on this list would lead me =astray) since the cost of good ferrules from other suppliers is somewhat =steep, I thought I'd give it a whirl. This past weekend, thirteen sets of beautifully crafted ferrules =arrived in the mail box. I've used ferrules from most =suppliers.........been satisfied with some, disappointed with others. = Hopefully, more of you will try some of Tony's ferrules in the near =future. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And of course, I have =no interest in this company, other than being able to obtain quality = Bob Marbert Bob, restriction of sizes, but according to his website, he plans, soon, to = the range of sizes he offers. very = helpful to me offlist with my constant badgering of him about machine = Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Bob = Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002= PMSubject: Happy Camper Several weeks ago, I stumbled across Bob Maulucci's reference to = (laboring under the assumption that no one on this list would lead me = since the cost of good ferrules from other suppliers is somewhat = thought I'd give it a whirl. This past weekend, thirteen sets of beautifully crafted ferrules = Hopefully, more of you will try some of Tony's ferrules in the = have no interest in this company, other than being able to obtain = Bob MarbertHickory, from utzerath@execpc.com Mon Feb 25 19:28:55 2002 g1Q1Ss805389 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:28:54 - g1Q1XBx12389; g1Q1SpF97274; Subject: Re: guide feet Acrylic artists paint thinned down a little with water. You get it atalmost any craft store for a buck or so a bottle in any color. Probablywon't work well with water based CP (ugh); other solvent systems includingepoxy don't seem to affect it. You can also try to match the color of the blank. I've done it with greengraphite. Jim U----- Original Message ----- Subject: guide feet I'm using black guides and after dressing them wanted to restore the blackfinish. I used a permanent marker and became paranoid when most of it came off when wiping with alcohol. I don't want to put something on that bleeds into the wrap when I put the finish on. What do you guys use?? Pls???- dennis aebersold from dybam@oct.net Mon Feb 25 19:33:58 2002 g1Q1Xv805717 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:33:58 -0600 Subject: Re: furled leaders [4000080e]. Communications, Inc. What is a furled leader? Mark Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:30 PMSubject: Re: furled leaders Guys, Guillermo Magari=F1os, on this List, is making and selling furled =leaders in Argentina. I have some, and they are of very good quality. =One other list member is evaluating them, also. They are also very =reasonably priced, 7 feet long, and good for 4x - 8x. You can write =Guillermo at classictackle@hotmail.com or guille32@tutopia.com (Yes, I =have a vested interest in this. Guillermo is paying me 100% of the gross = M-D Thanks for the website on making furled leaders, Jason. I enjoy =casting them, and agree with their proponents that they allow you to =fish a long tippet on a relatively short leader (see Tom Wendelburg's =book, Catching Big Fish on Light Fly Tackle; no $ interest, of course). =As many will know, there are fine directions for, and discussion of =furled tapered leaders in Darrell Martin's book, Micropatterns. --Tom NormalCleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 P.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso- style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}P.MsoPlainText { FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoPlainText { FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoPlainText { FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.SpellE { mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes}SPAN.GramE { mso-style-name: ""; mso-gram-e: yes}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} What is a furled leader? Mark ----- Original Message ----- Jojo =DeLancier Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002= PMSubject: Re: furled =leaders Guys, Guillermo Magari=F1os,= is making and selling furled leaders in Argentina. I have some, and = of very good quality. One other list member is evaluating them, also. = also very reasonably priced, 7 feet long, and good for 4x - 8x. You = Guillermo at classictackle@hotmail.com&n= guille32@tutopia.com (Yes,= vested interest in this. Guillermo is paying me 100% of the gross for = 10 yr.. Riiiiiightt.) M-D Goodmann, Tom Thanks for the website on making furled = and agree with their proponents that they allow you to fish a long = Big Fish on = directions for, and discussion of furled tapered leaders in Darrell = Tom from jojo@ipa.net Mon Feb 25 19:47:36 2002 g1Q1lZ806407 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:47:35 -0600 helo=default) id 16fWiM-0001n1-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:47:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Yes, Rob, Todd's chat room has a special Rob Alert so that everyone knowswhen you log on, and we all just go to private chat mode 'till you've hadenough and leave. Boy, do we get a laugh out of that. Man, you're a hoot! M-D Bob, my only issue is that no one is ever there when I log in. I guess they are trying to tell me something! Rob From: "Bob Nunley" Sorry, Guys, didn't mean to post that to the entire list. Was just trying to pick Todd's brain a little... BUT, if anyone else has any suggestions,I'm sure open to them! Tnx,Bob From: "Bob Nunley" Hey, Todd. Been trying to get on the Chat room. got a problem and someone told me you had a good computer knowledge, so I'll pick your brain.This happens to me on both your chat room and the one at Flyanglers Online. It says that I need to contact my net. admin about configuring a socket or some BS like that. My ISP says I'm OK, but I did have a virus not long ago that corrupted some DLL files. I went to my restore disc andwithout doing a complete restore, I did a setup on my Video Drivers again, but no change... still can't get into either chat. Any ideas? Know any miracle cures or know which driver file I'm missing that's necessary to open your chat and FAOL's (theirs is Volcano Chat)? Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from kenealyj@gwi.net Mon Feb 25 19:53:03 2002 g1Q1r2806737 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:53:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Why did you let him in on the secret- now you've spoiled our fun!!! ;o) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Yes, Rob, Todd's chat room has a special Rob Alert so that everyone knowswhen you log on, and we all just go to private chat mode 'till you've hadenough and leave. Boy, do we get a laugh out of that. Man, you're a hoot! M-D From: "Robert Clarke" Bob, my only issue is that no one is ever there when I log in. I guess they are trying to tell me something! Rob From: "Bob Nunley" Sorry, Guys, didn't mean to post that to the entire list. Was just trying to pick Todd's brain a little... BUT, if anyone else has any suggestions, I'm sure open to them! Tnx,Bob From: "Bob Nunley" Hey, Todd. Been trying to get on the Chat room. got a problem and someone told me you had a good computer knowledge, so I'll pick your brain.This happens to me on both your chat room and the one at Flyanglers Online. It says that I need to contact my net. admin about configuring a socket or some BS like that. My ISP says I'm OK, but I did have a virus not long ago that corrupted some DLL files. I went to my restore disc and without doing a complete restore, I did a setup on my Video Drivers again, but no change... still can't get into either chat. Any ideas? Know any miracle cures or know which driver file I'm missing that's necessary to open your chat and FAOL's (theirs is Volcano Chat)? Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from jojo@ipa.net Mon Feb 25 20:03:06 2002 g1Q235807341 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:03:05 -0600 helo=default) id 16fWxM-00050Q-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:03:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Nah, now it'll be even more fun, cause he'll know we're doing it. }B^)> M-D Why did you let him in on the secret- now you've spoiled our fun!!! ;o) From: "Jojo DeLancier" Yes, Rob, Todd's chat room has a special Rob Alert so that everyone knows when you log on, and we all just go to private chat mode 'till you've had enough and leave. Boy, do we get a laugh out of that. Man, you're a hoot! M-D From: "Robert Clarke" Bob, my only issue is that no one is ever there when I log in. I guess they are trying to tell me something! Rob From: "Bob Nunley" Sorry, Guys, didn't mean to post that to the entire list. Was just trying to pick Todd's brain a little... BUT, if anyone else has any suggestions, I'm sure open to them! Tnx,Bob From: "Bob Nunley" Hey, Todd. Been trying to get on the Chat room. got a problem and someone told me you had a good computer knowledge, so I'll pick your brain. This happens to me on both your chat room and the one at Flyanglers Online. It says that I need to contact my net. admin about configuring a socket or some BS like that. My ISP says I'm OK, but I did have a virus not long ago that corrupted some DLL files. I went to my restore disc and without doing a complete restore, I did a setup on my Video Drivers again, but no change... still can't get into either chat. Any ideas? Know any miracle cures or know which driver file I'm missing that's necessary to open your chat and FAOL's (theirs is Volcano Chat)? Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from BrooksideNC@aol.com Mon Feb 25 20:21:18 2002 g1Q2LI808034 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:21:18 -0600 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:21:06 -0500 Subject: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Check out these sites for help and info on furled leaders. I love them.ClaudeFreaner's Furled Leader Page FurledLeader Jig Tight Lines, Richard FederationGuide/Fly Fishing Instructer/Costom TierBrookside Guides -- Check out these sites Claude FurledLeader Jig Tight Lines, Richard FederationGuide/Fly FishingInstructer/Costom Tier from drinkr@voicenet.com Mon Feb 25 20:52:38 2002 g1Q2qb809006 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:52:37 - (209.71.86.154) Subject: Modified 5/8" Fingernail Bits I apologize for any seeming commercialism but bear with me. I was able totalk MLCS into modifying their carbide 5/8 inch bit to match the one that isin Jack Howells book. If I purchase at least thirty of these bits they willproduce them at $13 a piece. I was surprised at the price. The one drawbackis the turn over time it will be two months after I work out an order.Evidently all of their bits are produced in China and shipped here. If Ipick up the bits at their facility near by I can skip shipping costs but notPA sales tax. I would imagine that each bit would ring in at about $15shipped. I don't want anymore than cost. MLCS will supply me with a finalsketch that I can forward to anyone interested off list. If anyone isinterested I would like to formulate a solid list to send off to the companyin the next week or two. I need to place a 50% deposit on the total orderbefore they will begin. If we generate enough interest in these bits maybethey will see a need to include them in their catalogue later. Many of youwere interested in this order earlier please contact me off list again so Ican produce a list. if we hit 30 I'll move on it.Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker from canazon@mindspring.com Mon Feb 25 21:26:17 2002 g1Q3QG810053 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:26:16 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16fYFi-0004Pu-00; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:26:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room that's nothing rob. i went there last nite and everybody signed off. canbody odor cross cyberspace? i will say this though, everyone was sure tosay goodnite. kinda like "the waltons".mike. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Bob, my only issue is that no one is ever there when I log in. I guess they are trying to tell me something! Rob From: "Bob Nunley" CC: Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo RoomDate: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:32:55 - 0600 Sorry, Guys, didn't mean to post that to the entire list. Was just trying to pick Todd's brain a little... BUT, if anyone else has any suggestions,I'm sure open to them! Tnx,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Bob Nunley" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:19 PMSubject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Hey, Todd. Been trying to get on the Chat room. got a problem and someone told me you had a good computer knowledge, so I'll pick your brain.This happens to me on both your chat room and the one at Flyanglers Online. It says that I need to contact my net. admin about configuring a socket or some BS like that. My ISP says I'm OK, but I did have a virus not long ago that corrupted some DLL files. I went to my restore disc andwithout doing a complete restore, I did a setup on my Video Drivers again, but no change... still can't get into either chat. Any ideas? Know any miracle cures or know which driver file I'm missing that's necessary to open your chat and FAOL's (theirs is Volcano Chat)? Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Todd Talsma" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:42 PMSubject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room OK. Since there has been some chatter about this, what do you guysthink? Sounded like 10:00 Eastern, 9:00 Central, 8:00 Mountain & 7:00 Pacific on Sunday night was the first "scheduled" chat time. I'vegotten a few people who would be willing to host a session. Anybodyelse want to step up to the plate? Maybe someone would even be willing to drag someone else along. Thinking off the top of my headhere......(very dangerous in my case)...John Zimny to help withadhesives and finishes or Theodore Simroe to talk about the Leonard Rod Company. I'm sure other people could think of some other "special"people that could be invited as well. I'm usually in and out of the chat room during the day, but I don'talways check the room at night. I'm out there right now and will beuntil about 4:00 (eastern), so stop by and let me know what you think. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I just want to make sure everyone is aware of Todd's bamboo rod maker's chat room that he has up and running. If any of you aren't familiar with this you can check it out at: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Chat_Room/chat_room.html Chatted last night with several of you and I learned a few things, hada few laughs, and got to know some of you better. It would be nice to havea weekly chat session. Now I am just waiting for the launch of the Nunely web cam! Thanks, Kyle --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Feb 25 21:36:51 2002 g1Q3Z9810557 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:35:09 - (authenticated) Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:35:06 -0800 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Bob, We had about a dozen in there last night, from old hands like Ralph MoonandWayne C., to guys who haven't yet split a culm. Had quite a nice little chat Everyone there agreed that it was a good thing that Todd, Castwell, andLadyFisher had all conspired to ban you and all Harley riding bamboorodmakers from Oklahoma from the chat rooms. Harry Bob wrote: Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Grnmtrds@aol.com Mon Feb 25 21:42:15 2002 g1Q3ff810806 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:41:42 - for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:41:21 - Subject: happy camper Bob, Does Tony have a web page? How can we get some info on his product? Thanks,Jim from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Feb 25 22:09:06 2002 g1Q495811934 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:09:05 - (authenticated) Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:09:47 -0800 Subject: Re: happy camper Jim, Tony's page can be found at:http://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/about.html Though he's just getting started with it, you can get some good ideasthere. They ARE nice ferrules. Got a coupla sets on the way myself. Harry Grnmtrds@aol.com wrote: Bob, Does Tony have a web page? How can we get some info on his product? Thanks,Jim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rmoon@ida.net Mon Feb 25 22:30:02 2002 g1Q4U1813076 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:30:01 - Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room How about it you guys. Shall we set it as Todd has indicated. A solidexpression of interest is in order. As for me, count me in Ralph Todd Talsma wrote: OK. Since there has been some chatter about this, what do you guysthink? Sounded like 10:00 Eastern, 9:00 Central, 8:00 Mountain & 7:00Pacific on Sunday night was the first "scheduled" chat time. I'vegotten a few people who would be willing to host a session. Anybodyelse want to step up to the plate? Maybe someone would even be willingto drag someone else along. Thinking off the top of my headhere......(very dangerous in my case)...John Zimny to help withadhesives and finishes or Theodore Simroe to talk about the Leonard RodCompany. I'm sure other people could think of some other "special"people that could be invited as well. I'm usually in and out of the chat room during the day, but I don'talways check the room at night. I'm out there right now and will beuntil about 4:00 (eastern), so stop by and let me know what you think. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I just want to make sure everyone is aware of Todd's bamboo rodmaker's chat room that he has up and running. If any of you aren't familiarwith this you can check it out at: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Chat_Room/chat_room.html Chatted last night with several of you and I learned a few things, had afew laughs, and got to know some of you better. It would be nice to have aweekly chat session. Now I am just waiting for the launch of the Nunely web cam! Thanks, Kyle --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Tue Feb 26 01:50:20 2002 g1Q7oI820049 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:50:18 -0600 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:50:02 +1300(NZDT) +1300 Subject: RE: Braiding machine Thanks to all for the interest.I certainly will post a report on what I have done, and the results.In order for it to be useful, I would need to go into some considerable details of gear set up as this is what governs the results.As soon as I can reproduce and control a taper I will burst into print.I am pretty sure the key to success will be to mechanise the process in order to ensure a constant tension in the working threads, and to give a reasonable chance of finishing one in this lifetime.Anyone interested in starting where I did should find a book on Japanese braiding, and look for instructions on an 8 or 16 strand hollow braid. Use different colored threads so you can see where you are up to in the braiding sequence. Regards DGK -----Original Message----- Subject: Braiding machine I went over to Danny Twang's place here in Auckland the other night and was blown out of the water by his rods and the silk lines. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Feb 26 05:51:36 2002 g1QBpZ822348 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 05:51:35 - for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:51:43 GMT Subject: Threads Guys I have two surplus bulk trade spools of vintage thread: A ONE OUNCE wooden spool of Elephant grade 40 in a sort of medium pinkyred. And a ONE OUNCE wooden spool of Pearsalls Superfine in red and black classicjasper. Both are full spools, and I would think are from the 1940's or 1950's. I'm not sure how much length a full ounce of thread represents, but I'vebeen using another spool like this for years, and it seems to be thousandsof yards. Maybe someone can give an answer to that. Would anyone like to trade for an equivalent length of thread, maybe made up from smaller spools, in a fine green thread? I'm not too keen on theGudebrod brand, which I find a bit fluffy. I like the YLI #100 and #30 andthe Kinkame Japanese stuff (these makes look very similar to me). Providedis isn't too yellow, any of their greens would be OK in full spools. Note to Don Burns: you remember we did a similar trade some years ago. Ifyou've got to the end of that red jasper, you've made a heck of a lot ofrods. Good wishes to all. John Cooper Normal0DocumentEmail Guys I have two surplus bulk trade spools of vintage =thread: A ONE OUNCE wooden spool of Elephant grade 40 in a sort of medium =pinkyred. And a ONE OUNCE wooden spool of Pearsalls Superfine in red and =blackclassic jasper. Both are full spools, and I would think are from the 1940’s =or 1950’s. I’m not sure how much length a full ounce of thread =represents, but I’vebeen using another spool like this for years, and it seems to be =thousands ofyards. Maybe someone can give an answer to =that. Would anyone like to trade for an equivalent length of thread, =maybemade up from smaller spools, in a fine green thread? I’m not too =keen on the Kinkame =Japanese greens would beOK in full spools. Note to Don Burns: you remember we did a similar trade some years =ago.If you’ve got to the end of that red jasper, you’ve made a =heck of a lot ofrods. Good wishes to all. John Cooper from dnorl@qwest.net Tue Feb 26 06:07:02 2002 g1QC71822719 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:07:01 - (63.228.44.131) Subject: Tony Larson Here's Tony's url for his web page. I don't know why I'm sending this. He is too busy already. I can't get =him to go fishing.Dave Here's Tony's url for his web =page.http://pages.prodigy.net/pum= I don't know why I'm sending this.= busy already. I can't get him to go fishing.Dave from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Feb 26 06:14:39 2002 g1QCEc823003 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:14:38 -0600 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:14:30 -0500 Subject: chat I might make the chat room occasionally (Gawd don't change it for me!) but I am one of those strange people who work on Monday AM. I leave at 4 AMwhich means I have to be at the building doing my pre trip at about 3:30, so I am usually mr. 8 pm and asleep on Sunday night. Yesterday I left the shop at 3:45 and returned at 8:30 not a bad day for all it was cold. managed to squeeze in 782 miles, and went WAY over allowed hours. Egad, glad Idon't do that too often! But occasionally I can manage a "late night!" mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Feb 26 06:39:46 2002 g1QCdj823537 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:39:46 - Subject: RE: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools Couldn't let this one go, been sleeping on flowered sheets, flannelsheets, "chick sheets" what ever the wife made the bed with, yesterdayshe bought a set of trout / fly fishing sheets. After twelve years ofmarriage, as she puts it, I've been whipped enough, need one of themLeonard Letort 40 tapers now to do a little whipping of my own [;)] (onlykidding).She is wondering why the Stanley 9 1/2 is still in the box and I haven'tplaned off the doors that stick. I got it new from a friend who works Take care, Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) As some of you know, I bought an old production mill and have beenspending my time setting it up between handplaning the latest orders. Ihave been very very excited about getting it up and running, and manyguys on the list have been helping me with little things that neededanswering, like power, cutters, etc.... Today, I finally got itreassembled after a grueling (very cold outside in the garage) timehauling all the workbenches out of the way, cleaning up, and lugging allthe pieces down in the basement shop. I had to disconnect the very veryheavy motor in order to get the main unit down the stairs. I reassembledthe whole main section, the cutter head section, and the arms that formthe infeed bed and the outfeed's chain driven unit. I spent many hoursbolting, repositioning, and tweaking all the parts, figuring the unitout as I went along, looking over and over at the few pictures of theassembled machine I have. I did not reattach the dual voltage motors, asI am taking them to be looked at and possibly rewired to 110. I wantedto see how the unit worked, so I took a roughed strip and attached it tothe hold down. I figured it out and manually pulled the chain andwatched as the taper bar moved through the machine setting the magic inmotion. I could not contain my excitment so I called my wife down to seehow the whole shabang worked. I found a butt section cut off andexplained how a rod was made up out of many tapered triangles. I tookthe roughed strip and put it into the hold down clamp. I showed how thetaper bar rolled on the track and bumped the hold down bed and strip upinto the cutters. I pulled the cutters out of the box and showed howwhen paired up side by side, they formed a triangle. I pointed out theincrease in the taper bars and how that would take more off the bambooforming the smaller tips. As I pulled the bar through I showed how thecane was moving up and more would be cut off. I explained where thepulleys and motors that drive the cutters and the chain drive would go.I pulled the strip through and rejoiced as the bar disengaged as ittravelled to the end of its path. My wife's reply, "That's it?" My headhung low. Disbelief showed on my face. "I'm sorry honey. I just thoughtit would do more." When will I ever learn,Bob ps., Oh yeah. 5 minutes later she asked, "That thing won't be runningall day long while we're at work, will it?" from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Feb 26 06:54:49 2002 g1QCsm823979 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:54:48 - id ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:47:38 -0500 id D56AMNR3; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:47:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Thanks Harry. Now you're trying to get me in trouble. You're about asbad as Tony Young and Wayne C. One time, they were conspiring to get mein big trouble with SWMBO! Thanks a lot. Harry Boyd wrote: Bob, We had about a dozen in there last night, from old hands like Ralph MoonandWayne C., to guys who haven't yet split a culm. Had quite a nice little chat Everyone there agreed that it was a good thing that Todd, Castwell, andLadyFisher had all conspired to ban you and all Harley riding bamboorodmakers from Oklahoma from the chat rooms. Harry Bob wrote: Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from harms1@pa.net Tue Feb 26 07:06:57 2002 Received: from Cc: References: Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Can't say enough good thingsabout Tony Larson's products. I have gotten several sets of his ferrules overthe past few months, and laid in a good supply of his smaller sized reel seatcaps, rings and cork checks. The stuff is beautifully machined and polished,and you can't beat the quality at any price. The only thing I worry about isthat he may become swamped with orders. (No interest, in enterprise)Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 11:07 PMSubject: Re: happy camper Jim, Tony's page can be found at:http://pages.prodigy.net/pumpkin10/about.html Though he's just getting started with it, you can get some good ideasthere. They ARE nice ferrules. Got a coupla sets on the way myself. Harry Grnmtrds@aol.com wrote: Bob, Does Tony have a web page? How can we get some info on his product? Thanks,Jim -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from Jkvseafood@aol.com Tue Feb 26 07:31:44 2002 g1QDVh825103 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:31:43 - Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) ask your wife where i can get a set of those sheets. i'd love to put them on the bed just to see the look on my wife's face! i must say my wife is the best. karen (my wife) has allowed my to build a 16 x 20 ft building in our small back yard and buy all these tools, because as she says "the dining room table is for eating" . i thought the sofa in front of the tv was for eating and the table was for making rods? guess who won? my work shop will have a futon, tv, ac, bar and stereo as well as the tools. after two weeks she will probably put the rod building stuff back on the kitchen table, since she doesn't see me anymore. has anyone figured these chicks out yet? jh from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Tue Feb 26 07:52:55 2002 g1QDqs825787 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:52:54 - Subject: Re: Modified 5/8" Fingernail Bits I would take a bit. Let me know what you need and I will get it out toyou. Thanks Mark Babiy from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 26 08:02:51 2002 g1QE2o826257 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:02:50 - (authenticated) Tue, 26 Feb 2002 06:04:09 -0800 Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Ralph, Though I'm not too sure if it will help or hurt participation, you can expectme to be involved regularly as well. Due to my profession, I can't commit toevery single SundayNight, but I'll be there most Sundays, at 9pm Central time. Harry PS - Todd and Bob -- you know I was kidding on the other matter, right? "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: How about it you guys. Shall we set it as Todd has indicated. A solidexpression of interest is in order. As for me, count me in -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Tue Feb 26 08:28:45 2002 g1QESi827192 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:28:44 -0600 helo=default) id 16fiaq-0000VO-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:28:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) SNIP has anyone figured these chicks out yet? jh This comes by way of a very old man in Gulfport, Mississippi. Wisdom handeddown to him by his father."Son, they're all crazy -- just some more than others." M-D from rmoon@ida.net Tue Feb 26 09:38:05 2002 g1QFc4801066 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:38:04 - Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room Gee Gee Harry, I have the perfect answer. Get your priorities right and changeprofessions. LOL Actually the Sunday night time is one that might not beappropriate for a lot of us.The simple solution is to double the pleasure and have two regular times sothat people like you and Mark can still join in. The only question remaining iswhat would be best for youguys. I felt pretty good the other night (Sunday), because it gave me achance to interact with friends and not worry about much more thanfriendship. I even ran into a disagreementcaused by your problems, that has sent me back to the drawing board. Evena decrepit old canine can still learn. I know I am getting mushy, but all of themembers of the list havemade my last few years very enjoyable ones. I thank you all. God Bless you. Ralph Harry Boyd wrote: Ralph, Though I'm not too sure if it will help or hurt participation, you can expectme to be involved regularly as well. Due to my profession, I can't commit toevery single SundayNight, but I'll be there most Sundays, at 9pm Central time. Harry PS - Todd and Bob -- you know I was kidding on the other matter, right? "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: How about it you guys. Shall we set it as Todd has indicated. A solidexpression of interest is in order. As for me, count me in -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from alan.grombacher@pioneer.com Tue Feb 26 09:51:52 2002 g1QFpp802068 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:51:51 - 26 Feb 2002 10:51:35 -0500 id ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:51:34 -0600 rodmakers Subject: RE: Al Grombacher, Computer Bug? Hey Guys, The seems to be coming from my old email address. We changed emailaddresses at my outfit awhile back. I'll see what I can find out about it. Sorry about all the hassles. Alberta Al Grombacher -----Original Message----- Subject: Al Grombacher, Computer Bug? I have now received 4 "undeliveral message" errors for Al Grombacher, but Ihaven't sent him a message. Is this a bug of some sort? from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Feb 26 09:54:37 2002 g1QFsb802396 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:54:37 -0600 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:54:26 -0500 MAILINID63-0226105426; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:54:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! List, please help out one of the slower members. I don't quite get it on thisfurled leader thing. Using the quick and dirty version, what is a furled leaderand why is is better than either buying off the shelf knotless leaders, ortieing your own knotted leaders? Thanks, Kyle In a message dated Mon, 25 Feb 2002 9:21:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,BrooksideNC@aol.com writes: Check out these sites for help and info on furled leaders. I love them. Claude Freaner's Furled Leader Page Furled Leader Jig Tight Lines, Richard Federation Guide/Fly Fishing Instructer/Costom Tier Brookside Guides from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Tue Feb 26 10:26:22 2002 g1QGQF804379 id g1QGQ6c17747; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:26:06 +0900 (JST) id BAA04413; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:25:33 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Braiding machine Darryl et al, This might also help; Here are some URLs; http://www.northnet.org/ropeworks/text/r.html Rope maker's biblehttp://www.wctatel.net/web/equityrealty/ropeINDEX.htmlin this url, there is a brief sentence that the explained tool can make silkfishing line. enjoy. Max P.S. soryy for attachment. It is one of Japanese girls toy, called lilyancord. I have seen silk fly fishing line produced on the conventional braidingmachine listed on this page, but the company is in India. Don't know what it would cost to get it delivered in the U.S.http://www.geesons.comDarryl Hayashida Please excuse the verbiage that follows. I am sending this from work and our legal dept. puts it in automatically. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialorprivileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Feb 26 10:46:44 2002 g1QGki805650 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:46:44 -0600 pri.pacificare.com 2002 16:50:48 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:45:54 -0800 Subject: RE: Braiding machine There is a difference between rope making, which twists together theindividual fibers, and braiding, which actually criss crosses the fibersover and under each other. For a silk fly line you would want it braided.The machines on those pages were machines to twist the fibers together forrope making. I have looked at a Japanese art called kumihimo, but unless you are veryskilled you would only be able to make 4 or 5 inches an hour.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Braiding machine Darryl et al, This might also help; Here are some URLs; http://www.northnet.org/ropeworks/text/r.html Rope maker's biblehttp://www.wctatel.net/web/equityrealty/ropeINDEX.htmlin this url, there is a brief sentence that the explained tool can makesilkfishing line. enjoy. Max P.S. soryy for attachment. It is one of Japanese girls toy, calledlilyancord. I have seen silk fly fishing line produced on the conventional braidingmachine listed on this page, but the company is in India. Don't know whatit would cost to get it delivered in the U.S.http://www.geesons.comDarryl Hayashida Please excuse the verbiage that follows. I am sending this from work and our legal dept. puts it in automatically. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialorprivileged. The information is intended to be for the use of theindividualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be awarethatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notifythe sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Tue Feb 26 11:05:08 2002 g1QH57806777 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:05:07 -0600 Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:05:06 PST Subject: RE: Braiding machine "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" It's a less than ideal photo but below is a link to abraiding machine at the Catskill Fly Fishing center. Regards,Chris --- "d.kennedy" wrote: Thanks to all for the interest.I certainly will post a report on what I have done,and the results.In order for it to be useful, I would need to gointo some considerable details of gear set up as this is what governs theresults.As soon as I can reproduce and control a taper Iwill burst into print.I am pretty sure the key to success will be tomechanise the process in order to ensure a constant tension in the workingthreads, and to give a reasonable chance of finishing one in this lifetime.Anyone interested in starting where I did shouldfind a book on Japanese braiding, and look for instructions on an 8 or 16strand hollow braid. Use different colored threads so you can see where youare up to in the braiding sequence. Regards DGK __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Tue Feb 26 11:11:59 2002 g1QHBw807540 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:11:58 - id g1QHBuv10961 for ; Wed, 27 Feb2002 02:11:57 +0900 (JST) id CAA05490 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 200202:11:55 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Braiding machine Darryl, Then, is a silk fly line hollowed?Should something stay inside as core? I Kumihimo would be tremendously time consuming. Max There is a difference between rope making, which twists together theindividual fibers, and braiding, which actually criss crosses the fibersover and under each other. For a silk fly line you would want it braided.The machines on those pages were machines to twist the fibers togetherforrope making. I have looked at a Japanese art called kumihimo, but unless you are veryskilled you would only be able to make 4 or 5 inches an hour. from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Tue Feb 26 11:15:28 2002 g1QHFS807969 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:15:28 -0600 Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:15:27 PST Subject: RE: Braiding machine d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz,"'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Sorry link is: http://www.cffcm.org/cmmt03.html--- Chris Wohlford wrote: It's a less than ideal photo but below is a link toabraiding machine at the Catskill Fly Fishing center. Regards,Chris --- "d.kennedy" wrote: Thanks to all for the interest.I certainly will post a report on what I have done, and the results.In order for it to be useful, I would need to gointo some considerable details of gear set up as this is what governs theresults.As soon as I can reproduce and control a taper Iwill burst into print.I am pretty sure the key to success will be tomechanise the process in order to ensure a constant tension in the workingthreads, and to give a reasonable chance of finishing one in this lifetime. Anyone interested in starting where I did shouldfind a book on Japanese braiding, and look for instructions on an 8 or 16strand hollow braid. Use different colored threads so you can see where youare up to in the braiding sequence. Regards DGK __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Feb 26 11:19:29 2002 g1QHJS808387 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:19:28 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 17:23:32 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:18:36 -0800 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Braiding machine All of the silk fly fishing lines I have seen were a hollow braid, and someof them - the larger line weights - had some sort of a cord in the middle.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Braiding machine Darryl, Then, is a silk fly line hollowed?Should something stay inside as core? I Kumihimo would be tremendously time consuming. Max There is a difference between rope making, which twists together theindividual fibers, and braiding, which actually criss crosses the fibersover and under each other. For a silk fly line you would want it braided. The machines on those pages were machines to twist the fibers together for rope making. I have looked at a Japanese art called kumihimo, but unless you are veryskilled you would only be able to make 4 or 5 inches an hour. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Feb 26 12:09:06 2002 g1QI95811477 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:09:05 -0600 pri.pacificare.com 2002 18:13:10 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:08:12 -0800 Subject: RE: Braiding machine That machine looks like the geesons braiding machine.http://www.geesons.com/prod1c.htm#vertDarryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:15 AM 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Braiding machine Sorry link is: http://www.cffcm.org/cmmt03.html--- Chris Wohlford wrote: It's a less than ideal photo but below is a link toabraiding machine at the Catskill Fly Fishing center. Regards,Chris --- "d.kennedy" wrote: Thanks to all for the interest.I certainly will post a report on what I have done, and the results.In order for it to be useful, I would need to gointo some considerable details of gear set up as this is what governs theresults.As soon as I can reproduce and control a taper Iwill burst into print.I am pretty sure the key to success will be tomechanise the process in order to ensure a constant tension in the workingthreads, and to give a reasonable chance of finishing one in this lifetime. Anyone interested in starting where I did shouldfind a book on Japanese braiding, and look for instructions on an 8 or 16strand hollow braid. Use different colored threads so you can see where youare up to in the braiding sequence. Regards DGK __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from snooker_e@yahoo.com Tue Feb 26 12:33:18 2002 g1QIXI813007 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:33:18 - 26 Feb 2002 10:33:17 PST Subject: introduction List, Well, since i have been frequenting Todd's chat room the last few nights Ithought I should go ahead and introduce myself to everyone. I've been onthe list for a year or so, just lurking to pick up tips that might beuseful for the graphite(plastic) rods I build. I've beenbuilding(assembling) graphite and fiberglass rods for about 10 years. I've built everything from offshore trolling rods to 2wt fly rods. Havebeen mostly making flyrods though the last few years. It's all just ahobby, but it gives me something to do with my free time. About 6 monthsago, i got a delta midi lathe and have been turning seat inserts. I justfinished up my first mortised seat insert last week( thanks to info I got from the list)to go on a lamiglas fiberglass 3wt. Well, I can't stand itanymore and I have decided that it is time to build a cane rod. I'm inthe process right now of putting a list together of all the stuff I'mgoing to need and where to find it. This in itself has been quite aprocess. I'm looking for the 3/4" keystock right now to start on a set offorms, and plan to go looking for hardware for them this weekend. Ifigure it will take me a while to build them, and I can start gatheringthe other bits and pieces as I work on the forms. I'm trying to take thiswhole process slow, but I'm not too good at it. My wallet helps slow medown though, so I can't go too hog wild. I think that covers most of the rodbuilding stuff. On the personal side,I live in New Smyrna Beach, FL, just south of Daytona Beach. You know,NASCAR last week, Bike week this coming week...UGH!! I have no idea whyI'm planning to build cane rods in Florida, oh well, I'll just have thebest bream busters around. Or maybe I can start a new flats fishing fad,catching redfish on cane rods. Enough of the silliness. I do try to getup to the NC mountains a few times a year to trout fish, and hopefully Ican do it with Cane in the future. And last but not least, I have awonderful wife, that puts up with all this madness, and a 7 month old sonwho gets most of my free time right now. Sorry for the long post, wasnt'sure what I was going to write and ended up babbling on and on. Regards,Eric Young PS...Thanks to everyone who participates on the list. I have learned somuch already from the archives and folks personal websites. What a wealthof knowledge there is here!! =====New Smyrna Beach, FL __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from rmoon@ida.net Tue Feb 26 12:56:52 2002 g1QIup814278 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:56:51 - Subject: Re: introduction Glad to meet you Eric. If I can he of help, yell at me.Ralph Eric Young wrote: List, Well, since i have been frequenting Todd's chat room the last few nights Ithought I should go ahead and introduce myself to everyone. I've been onthe list for a year or so, just lurking to pick up tips that might beuseful for the graphite(plastic) rods I build. I've beenbuilding(assembling) graphite and fiberglass rods for about 10 years.I've built everything from offshore trolling rods to 2wt fly rods. Havebeen mostly making flyrods though the last few years. It's all just ahobby, but it gives me something to do with my free time. About 6 monthsago, i got a delta midi lathe and have been turning seat inserts. I justfinished up my first mortised seat insert last week( thanks to info I got from the list)to go on a lamiglas fiberglass 3wt. Well, I can't stand itanymore and I have decided that it is time to build a cane rod. I'm inthe process right now of putting a list together of all the stuff I'mgoing to need and where to find it. This in itself has been quite aprocess. I'm looking for the 3/4" keystock right now to start on a set offorms, and plan to go looking for hardware for them this weekend. Ifigure it will take me a while to build them, and I can start gatheringthe other bits and pieces as I work on the forms. I'm trying to take thiswhole process slow, but I'm not too good at it. My wallet helps slow medown though, so I can't go too hog wild. I think that covers most of the rodbuilding stuff. On the personal side,I live in New Smyrna Beach, FL, just south of Daytona Beach. You know,NASCAR last week, Bike week this coming week...UGH!! I have no idea whyI'm planning to build cane rods in Florida, oh well, I'll just have thebest bream busters around. Or maybe I can start a new flats fishing fad,catching redfish on cane rods. Enough of the silliness. I do try to getup to the NC mountains a few times a year to trout fish, and hopefully Ican do it with Cane in the future. And last but not least, I have awonderful wife, that puts up with all this madness, and a 7 month old sonwho gets most of my free time right now. Sorry for the long post, wasnt'sure what I was going to write and ended up babbling on and on. Regards,Eric Young PS...Thanks to everyone who participates on the list. I have learned somuch already from the archives and folks personal websites. What awealthof knowledge there is here!! =====New Smyrna Beach, FL __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Feb 26 12:59:37 2002 g1QIxb814591 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:59:37 - (216.160.236.98) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Forms frustration Hi all, Not being much of a metal worker, I managed to mess up my forms. I havebeen plinking away at them since last August (I know they are only supposedto take about 20 to 30 hours to make, but I have managed to put in morethan60). Well, somehow I managed to mess up the shoulder bolt holes so that thebolts won't go all the way into the holes. Almost all of them get stuckbecause the screw in a little bit crooked, making the shoulder jam againstthe side of the hole. I don't know if I drilled the holes at an angle or if I messed them upduring the tapping. When I drilled the holes I tested my drill press bydrilling some scrap wood and measuring the entry and exit holes. Theymatched, so I figured the holes were straight. I also tried to keep the tapstraight, but I often noticed it canting to the side. Thinking that the tapwould follow the hole, I just assumed it was me and my eyes that were off. Anyway, now that I have this thing mostly finished, is there any way tosalvage them? I have collected all my other tools, and just need the bamboobefore I can get started. So, needless to say, I'm a bit deflated by thisproblem. Any tips or suggestions would be sincerely appreciated. Jason from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Tue Feb 26 13:06:35 2002 g1QJ6Y815171 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:06:34 -0600 Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:06:28 PST Subject: RE: Braiding machine "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Regards,Chris --- Hayashida Darryl wrote: That machine looks like the geesons braidingmachine.http://www.geesons.com/prod1c.htm#vertDarryl Hayashida -----Original Message-----From: Chris Wohlford Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:15 AM 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Braiding machine Sorry link is: http://www.cffcm.org/cmmt03.html--- Chris Wohlford wrote: It's a less than ideal photo but below is a link to abraiding machine at the Catskill Fly Fishing center. Regards,Chris --- "d.kennedy" wrote: Thanks to all for the interest.I certainly will post a report on what I have done, and the results.In order for it to be useful, I would need to go into some considerable details of gear set up as this is what governs the results.As soon as I can reproduce and control a taper I will burst into print.I am pretty sure the key to success will be tomechanise the process in order to ensure a constant tension in the working threads, and to give a reasonable chance of finishing one in this lifetime. Anyone interested in starting where I did should find a book on Japanese braiding, and look for instructions on an 8 or 16 strand hollow braid. Use different colored threads so you can see where you are up to in the braiding sequence. Regards DGK __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! 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Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Feb 26 13:47:26 2002 g1QJlQ817967 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:47:26 - g1QJlHg17512; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:47:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Forms frustration Jason,No doubt you tapped the holes at an angle. You might be able to go to thenextlarger screw size. If you used a fine thread screw you might be able to drillout the holes and tap for a coarse screw, A coarse thread takes a largerhole.Another alternative is to re-drill another set of holes.To tape straight. Square up the form under the drill bit. Drill the proper sizehole. Get a spring loaded tapping pin at your tool supply house. HF had there Lower the drill shaft and lock it down when you have taken up the springextension.This pin has a centering point on it and that point goes in therecessin the top of the tap handle. This keeps the tap in line with the hole you justdrilled. The point had an internal spring the puts pressure on the tap handletokeep everything in line. If you need a photo of this set up let me know, I canget one to you.Hope this will help.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comJason Swan wrote: Hi all, Not being much of a metal worker, I managed to mess up my forms. I havebeen plinking away at them since last August (I know they are onlysupposedto take about 20 to 30 hours to make, but I have managed to put in morethan60). Well, somehow I managed to mess up the shoulder bolt holes so thatthebolts won't go all the way into the holes. Almost all of them get stuckbecause the screw in a little bit crooked, making the shoulder jam againstthe side of the hole. I don't know if I drilled the holes at an angle or if I messed them upduring the tapping. When I drilled the holes I tested my drill press bydrilling some scrap wood and measuring the entry and exit holes. Theymatched, so I figured the holes were straight. I also tried to keep the tapstraight, but I often noticed it canting to the side. Thinking that the tapwould follow the hole, I just assumed it was me and my eyes that were off. Anyway, now that I have this thing mostly finished, is there any way tosalvage them? I have collected all my other tools, and just need thebamboobefore I can get started. So, needless to say, I'm a bit deflated by thisproblem. Any tips or suggestions would be sincerely appreciated. Jason from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Feb 26 14:07:38 2002 g1QK7c820253 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:07:38 -0600 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:07:20 -0500 0226150720; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:07:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Thanks for all the great off list info. There seems to be something to thisfurled leader thing. I guess the fishing line companies don't want us to knowabout them because the profit margins must be much higher for theextruded plastic high production leaders they market. Reminds me of how Anheuser Busch has duped the American beer drinkingpublic in to thinking that real beer is "Bud" because this type of beer iseasiest for them to produce in large quantities and enables them to makethe most money. Thanks again, Kyle from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Tue Feb 26 16:14:40 2002 g1QMEd804230 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:14:39 - Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:13:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Forms frustration To keep the threads straight when taping, keep the two bars together andusethe one bar where the shoulder goes to act as guide for the tap. As an example I drilled my dowel holes then using a #7 bit I think, drilleda hole for the shoulder bolt through both bars. I then switched bits to a5/16" and drill through one bar and a portion of the other to accommodatethe shoulder of the bolt. Drop the tap in the larger hole and it aligns itperfectly with the #7 hole. Tim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Forms frustration Hi all, Not being much of a metal worker, I managed to mess up my forms. I havebeen plinking away at them since last August (I know they are only supposed to take about 20 to 30 hours to make, but I have managed to put in more than 60). Well, somehow I managed to mess up the shoulder bolt holes so that the bolts won't go all the way into the holes. Almost all of them get stuckbecause the screw in a little bit crooked, making the shoulder jam againstthe side of the hole. I don't know if I drilled the holes at an angle or if I messed them upduring the tapping. When I drilled the holes I tested my drill press bydrilling some scrap wood and measuring the entry and exit holes. Theymatched, so I figured the holes were straight. I also tried to keep the tap straight, but I often noticed it canting to the side. Thinking that the tap would follow the hole, I just assumed it was me and my eyes that were off. Anyway, now that I have this thing mostly finished, is there any way tosalvage them? I have collected all my other tools, and just need the bamboo before I can get started. So, needless to say, I'm a bit deflated by thisproblem. Any tips or suggestions would be sincerely appreciated. Jason from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Tue Feb 26 16:24:09 2002 g1QMO8804994 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:24:08 -0600 g1QMO6r28236; Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! okay. i still don't understand furled leaders. would one of you nicegentlemen (or Bob, even) respond ON list? Thanks, brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Thanks for all the great off list info. There seems to be something to this furled leader thing. I guess the fishing line companies don't want usto know about them because the profit margins must be much higher for theextruded plastic high production leaders they market. Reminds me of how Anheuser Busch has duped the American beer drinking public in to thinking that real beer is "Bud" because this type of beer iseasiest for them to produce in large quantities and enables them to makethemost money. Thanks again, Kyle from caneman@clnk.com Tue Feb 26 16:34:09 2002 g1QMY8805799 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:34:08 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Hey, Brian,I'll give it a shot. I sent this to Kyle this morning, and of course,when it gets to advantages, this is strictly my experience/opinion. Belowis what I wrote to Kyle. Besides the guy I mention below, I think there area couple of the listmembers that sell furled leaders. I know Skip Shorbdoes, and I have one of his, just haven't worn out the last ones I got fromJim, so haven't tried it yet. Judging from it's appearance and feel rightout of the package, I'd say it's as good as any. Furled leaders are nothing more than thread twisted together. Differentnumbers of threads are used along the leaders length, so that it has atapered appearance. It's not as simple as that sounds, but not a terriblytechnical process either. You can make or buy furled leaders made of eitherfly tying thread or thin monofilament. I personally prefer the ones made offly tying thread because of the colors. I have one man that makes all ofmine, and consider him the best there is. His leader designs are just astep above any others I've tried.Until I met this gentleman, I tied all my own knotted leaders because Icould never find a knotless leader that would turn over the way i wanted itto. Furled leaders turn over better than any leader, in any price range,that I've ever seen. Advantages:I've been flyfishing for 35 years and have never had a leader thatturns over as nicely as a furled leader.Great for nymphing. Once you get used to them, if you get them incolored tyingthread configuration, it eliminates the need for a strikeindicator. Also, in dimlight while dry fly fishing, or during one of those "fog like"trico hatches, it canhelp you hone your eyes in on the location of your fly. Thecolor of the threadleaders does NOT spooke the fish. I fish them in tiny crystalclear streams inMontana for wild fish that will bolt at the sight of a shadow...no trouble withthe furled leaders spooking them.Versitility. If you want a sinking leader, simply fish it fresh,and don't treat it withany kind of floatant. If you want a floating leader, sock alittle mucilin or flyfloatant to it and it will float better and higher in the waterthan any otherleader I've ever used.Durability. I have one on my 5'6" quad right now that has been onthere sinceAugust. It's about time to change it out, but not because ofany damage doneto it fishing, but because with so many people "test casting" myrods, it nowhas quite a few knots in it.Compared to braided mono leaders, you don't get the "spray" at theend of thecast that you will with braided leaders. If you want to try one, email Jim Cramer at jimc@monitor.net . He makes allof my furled leaders and in my opinion, just makes the best availble leaderon the market. Considering their durability, they are a much better bargainthan any other style leader on the Market. I don't know where you'relocated but Jim lives in Nothern California somewhere... can't remember forsure where, but a great guy to deal with and gives great service. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! okay. i still don't understand furled leaders. would one of you nicegentlemen (or Bob, even) respond ON list? Thanks, brian----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:07 PMSubject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Thanks for all the great off list info. There seems to be something to this furled leader thing. I guess the fishing line companies don't want us to know about them because the profit margins must be much higher fortheextruded plastic high production leaders they market. Reminds me of how Anheuser Busch has duped the American beerdrinking public in to thinking that real beer is "Bud" because this type of beer iseasiest for them to produce in large quantities and enables them to make the most money. Thanks again, Kyle from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Feb 26 16:35:25 2002 g1QMZP805970 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:35:25 - (authenticated) Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:36:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Brian, Furled leaders basically consist of about 50 yards of fly tying threadtwisted and knotted into a leader. They are limp, stretchy, and strong. Theyturn over a fly like nobody's business. I love them for dry flies, but have hadsome difficulties with nymphs and indicators, though I have hopes of workingthose difficulties out soon. A bunch of us followed the directions on Claude's page, along with somestuff from Henk Verhaar that I can no longer find, and made our own. Want to try one? Send me your snail mail.Harry Brian D. Creek" wrote: okay. i still don't understand furled leaders. would one of you nicegentlemen (or Bob, even) respond ON list? Thanks, brian----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:07 PMSubject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Thanks for all the great off list info. There seems to be something to this furled leader thing. I guess the fishing line companies don't want usto know about them because the profit margins must be much higher fortheextruded plastic high production leaders they market. Reminds me of how Anheuser Busch has duped the American beerdrinking public in to thinking that real beer is "Bud" because this type of beer iseasiest for them to produce in large quantities and enables them to makethemost money. Thanks again, Kyle --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Feb 26 16:46:13 2002 g1QMkD806902 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:46:13 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:31:23 -0600 Subject: RE: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Attached is a note I sent to Kyle earlier. Note, some people love furled,and some don't. They may not be right for everybody.... Howdy Kyle -- Here's my naive perspective on furled leaders. I have only fished them afew times, but I already know that I love them. Regular leaders of nylonmonofilament have memory. No matter how well you try to straighten them,they have some amount of residual coiling. They are also stiff, by virtueof their diameter. What I like about the furled leaders that I bought fromJim Cramer ( from California), is that they perform perfectly, with nomemoryor stiffness. They turn over beautifully, do not throw a spray like thebraided nylon leaders that Orvis came out with 10 or 15 years ago, and theyare quite reasonably priced. Once I get my jig made, I plan to make themmyself. They do not appear that difficult. For your dry fly trout fishing,I believe you would like them if you tried them. For 6 bucks, it's worththe shot. Let me know if you'd like Cramer's address, he's a good guy towork with. NFI, etc. TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! okay. i still don't understand furled leaders. would one of you nicegentlemen (or Bob, even) respond ON list? Thanks, brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Thanks for all the great off list info. There seems to be something to this furled leader thing. I guess the fishing line companies don't want usto know about them because the profit margins must be much higher for theextruded plastic high production leaders they market. Reminds me of how Anheuser Busch has duped the American beer drinking public in to thinking that real beer is "Bud" because this type of beer iseasiest for them to produce in large quantities and enables them to makethemost money. Thanks again, Kyle from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Feb 26 18:20:16 2002 g1R0KF810836 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:20:15 - for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:20:05 - Subject: Janome Silk Thread I just picked up several spools of this thread and I must say I've impressed. The colors seem especially vibrant, much more so than any other brand I've tried. It's a Size 50, almost no fuzzies. Does anyone have any experience with this thread? --Rich from guille32@tutopia.com Tue Feb 26 18:30:53 2002 g1R0Ur811290 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:30:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Hi everyone, here is the copy of a mail I've sent to Mark Dyba about furledleaders. Guillermo Hello MarkIn few words a furled leader would be a tapered rope made out of mono ortying thread.When you have a closer look, you see it is made by two tapered halvestwisted agains each other, like a rope.The taper in these halves is given by the different amount of strands of thematerial you use for each section of the leader.Furled leaders have many advantages over other types of leaders.-They are almost memory free. When you have one of them in you hand youseetheir butt section has no memory wich will help you in transfering, withouta noticeable loss, the Energy from your line to the fly, therefore they areeasier to cast, improve presentation and are suitable even for nonexperimented casters. This "line Energy saving" property lets us use longertippets too.When you cast a mono leader, part of the casting Energy is lost by"fighting" its memory, wich may mean an imperfect fly turn over and poorpresentation.-By the nature of their construction, they strech more than any monoleader.Mono leaders strech between 5 to 8% of their length, furled leaders maystrech up to 15% of their length wich has advantages in two places:In the air, when you cast, if you shorten the loop and try to cast faster,they will strech and store Energy like a spring, then, when you do yourfinal cast, that Energy will be delivered to the fly. This will also allowyou to use longer tippets than usual without any risk of not turning overthe fly and it will help you to make better casts against the wind too.On the water, when you play a fish, the same happens, the leader streches,wich will protect light tippets meaning less fish being lost.-Furled leaders don't tend to collect water like braided leaders do.Braided leaders are hollow wich is nice for delicacy when they are dry, butwhen they get few times on the water, they hold water inside wich createsthat caracteristic spray.Furled leaders act almost like mono leaders in this matter.-They are good for many fishing situations but are specially good for dryflies.-If you use the tippet sizes recomended by the maker, they may lastseasons.-Their caracteristics can be changed varying the material, the strength, thenumber of strands, the lenght, etc. Mark, hope this clarifies a bit about furled leaders to you. Guillermo from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Feb 26 18:39:56 2002 g1R0du811785 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:39:56 - g1R0drE20275 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:39:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Haven't worn mine out either. I was given some furled leaders several yearsago waste. Skip gave me one when I did not have another leader on hand so Iattachedit to the fly line. It is still there, taken a load of fish on it and it isstill good as new. Skip will do a demo on making Furled leaders at the Sowbug.He has come up with a almost automated rig.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bob Nunley wrote: Hey, Brian,I'll give it a shot. I sent this to Kyle this morning, and of course,when it gets to advantages, this is strictly my experience/opinion. Belowis what I wrote to Kyle. Besides the guy I mention below, I think there area couple of the listmembers that sell furled leaders. I know Skip Shorbdoes, and I have one of his, just haven't worn out the last ones I got fromJim, so haven't tried it yet. Judging from it's appearance and feel rightout of the package, I'd say it's as good as any. Furled leaders are nothing more than thread twisted together. Differentnumbers of threads are used along the leaders length, so that it has atapered appearance. It's not as simple as that sounds, but not a terriblytechnical process either. You can make or buy furled leaders made ofeitherfly tying thread or thin monofilament. I personally prefer the ones made offly tying thread because of the colors. I have one man that makes all ofmine, and consider him the best there is. His leader designs are just astep above any others I've tried.Until I met this gentleman, I tied all my own knotted leaders because Icould never find a knotless leader that would turn over the way i wanted itto. Furled leaders turn over better than any leader, in any price range,that I've ever seen. Advantages:I've been flyfishing for 35 years and have never had a leader thatturns over as nicely as a furled leader.Great for nymphing. Once you get used to them, if you get them incolored tyingthread configuration, it eliminates the need for a strikeindicator. Also, in dimlight while dry fly fishing, or during one of those "fog like"trico hatches, it canhelp you hone your eyes in on the location of your fly. Thecolor of the threadleaders does NOT spooke the fish. I fish them in tiny crystalclear streams inMontana for wild fish that will bolt at the sight of a shadow... no trouble withthe furled leaders spooking them.Versitility. If you want a sinking leader, simply fish it fresh,and don't treat it withany kind of floatant. If you want a floating leader, sock alittle mucilin or flyfloatant to it and it will float better and higher in the waterthan any otherleader I've ever used.Durability. I have one on my 5'6" quad right now that has been onthere sinceAugust. It's about time to change it out, but not because ofany damage doneto it fishing, but because with so many people "test casting" myrods, it nowhas quite a few knots in it.Compared to braided mono leaders, you don't get the "spray" at theend of thecast that you will with braided leaders. If you want to try one, email Jim Cramer at jimc@monitor.net . He makesallof my furled leaders and in my opinion, just makes the best availble leaderon the market. Considering their durability, they are a much betterbargainthan any other style leader on the Market. I don't know where you'relocated but Jim lives in Nothern California somewhere... can't rememberforsure where, but a great guy to deal with and gives great service. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Brian D. Creek" Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 4:23 PMSubject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! okay. i still don't understand furled leaders. would one of you nicegentlemen (or Bob, even) respond ON list? Thanks, brian----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:07 PMSubject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Thanks for all the great off list info. There seems to be something to this furled leader thing. I guess the fishing line companies don't want us to know about them because the profit margins must be much higher fortheextruded plastic high production leaders they market. Reminds me of how Anheuser Busch has duped the American beerdrinking public in to thinking that real beer is "Bud" because this type of beer iseasiest for them to produce in large quantities and enables them tomake the most money. Thanks again, Kyle from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Feb 26 18:59:36 2002 g1R0xa812621 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:59:36 -0600 helo=oemcomputer) id 16fsRO-0003HM-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:59:31 -0500 Subject: Braiding Mach. Went down to "Ye olde watering hole" late this afternoon and mentioned to abuddy about chances of locating an old braiding apparatus (I'm in textilecountry, Piedmont N.C.). He said he thought he knew where one or more might be stored, turns outtheowner (if such machine exists) is an uncle of a good friend. This may be ablind alley, but what if I come up with one or more of these things? How doI determine if it is suitable for making silk fly lines? How many ends (threads) make up a silk fly line? What denier (diameter) ofsilk is/was used? Is there a core, if so, what is used? What TPI (turnsper inch) does the silk strands have? Does the silk that I use for wrapsserve to make fly lines? I ain't looking to go into any mfg'ing., I didn't work my butt off for 40years to unretire...and I need to finish filing the grooves in my steelform, just thought I'd share this with y'all.Regards.Ed from BambooRods@aol.com Tue Feb 26 19:59:07 2002 g1R1x6817415 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:59:07 - for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:58:54 - Subject: Bamboo Data Base Program Help To anyone that might be able to help,Long story very short, I was using the Rodmakers Data Program (early version, 2.0) and went to the 3.0. I thought I simply needed to drag and drop the .tps files from one version to the other to update the 3.0 with all my info from the earlier version. I did this with windows explorer. Now I can see the files in explorer but they don't show up in either of the versions. Any hope or is all lost? TIA Doug Hall from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Tue Feb 26 20:04:04 2002 g1R242817739 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:04:02 -0600 Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:03:23 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:03:23 +0800 rodmakers@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Braiding Mach. Hi Ed, ideally, the machine should have two counter-rotating banks of eightthreads; sixteen in all. Not sure about exact thread diameters. The taperis created by substituting threads of different diameters during thebraiding process. I've never heard of a silk fly line with a core but they mightexist. Reed Curry is the list guru on silk lines so he might know. Hope that helpsMike from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Tue Feb 26 20:31:52 2002 g1R2Vp822214 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:31:51 -0600 g1R2Vkr07165; Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Thanks to all who responded. Great. Another thing I 'need!';^) Brian Check out these sites for help and info on furled leaders. I love =them. Tight Lines, Richard FederationGuide/Fly Fishing Instructer/Costom Tier Another thing I 'need!';^) Brian ----- Original Message ----- BrooksideNC@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002= PMSubject: Check out these sites = leaders!! Check out= = Jig Tight Lines,RichardFederationGuide/Fly Fishing Instructer/Costom = from jojo@ipa.net Tue Feb 26 20:47:14 2002 g1R2lD824138 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:47:13 -0600 helo=default) id 16fu7a-0000AA-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:47:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! The fun just never ends. M-D Thanks to all who responded. Great. Another thing I 'need!';^) Brian ends. M-D Creek Another thing I 'need!';^) Brian from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Feb 26 20:53:20 2002 g1R2rJ825232 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:53:19 -0600 , Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! loop in the end of the leader? I find that the loop tends to close upmaking it very difficult to attach the new tippet. Other than that I likethe furled leader. I make mine 7.5' long. Does anyone use a two stagetippet like a 2' of 5X + 2' of 6X? Dennis Bertram -----Original Message----- ; RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Hi everyone, here is the copy of a mail I've sent to Mark Dyba about furledleaders. Guillermo Hello MarkIn few words a furled leader would be a tapered rope made out of mono ortying thread.When you have a closer look, you see it is made by two tapered halvestwisted agains each other, like a rope.The taper in these halves is given by the different amount of strands of the material you use for each section of the leader.Furled leaders have many advantages over other types of leaders.-They are almost memory free. When you have one of them in you hand youseetheir butt section has no memory wich will help you in transfering, withouta noticeable loss, the Energy from your line to the fly, therefore they areeasier to cast, improve presentation and are suitable even for nonexperimented casters. This "line Energy saving" property lets us use longertippets too.When you cast a mono leader, part of the casting Energy is lost by"fighting" its memory, wich may mean an imperfect fly turn over and poorpresentation.-By the nature of their construction, they strech more than any mono leader. Mono leaders strech between 5 to 8% of their length, furled leaders maystrech up to 15% of their length wich has advantages in two places:In the air, when you cast, if you shorten the loop and try to cast faster,they will strech and store Energy like a spring, then, when you do yourfinal cast, that Energy will be delivered to the fly. This will also allowyou to use longer tippets than usual without any risk of not turning overthe fly and it will help you to make better casts against the wind too.On the water, when you play a fish, the same happens, the leader streches,wich will protect light tippets meaning less fish being lost.-Furled leaders don't tend to collect water like braided leaders do.Braided leaders are hollow wich is nice for delicacy when they are dry, butwhen they get few times on the water, they hold water inside wich createsthat caracteristic spray.Furled leaders act almost like mono leaders in this matter.-They are good for many fishing situations but are specially good for dryflies.-If you use the tippet sizes recomended by the maker, they may lastseasons.-Their caracteristics can be changed varying the material, the strength, the number of strands, the lenght, etc. Mark, hope this clarifies a bit about furled leaders to you. Guillermo from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Tue Feb 26 21:02:52 2002 g1R32p826889 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:02:52 - by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:02:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Data Base Program Help Doug: Call me at 423-288-7930 tomorrow (Wed. 2/27) 6:00-9:00pm EST, and I'llassist you with this. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo Data Base Program Help To anyone that might be able to help,Long story very short, I was using the Rodmakers Data Program (earlyversion, 2.0) and went to the 3.0. I thought I simply needed to drag anddrop the .tps files from one version to the other to update the 3.0 with all my info from the earlier version. I did this with windows explorer. Now I can see the files in explorer but they don't show up in either of theversions. Any hope or is all lost? TIA Doug Hall from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Feb 26 21:05:08 2002 g1R357827278 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:05:07 -0600 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:04:59 -0500 Subject: Now Server Fund was Check out these sites on furled leaders!! I think this brings up a good point. Being a new lister, the only thing that I would like to see different is for more folks to post responses to the list instead of off list. There is probably a lot of great off-list material that is never seen. If its a matter server resources being stretched thin then perhaps a server fund could be started. I am sure if the majority of the list kicks in a few bucks each we could have a dedicated server for the list with enough storage space for many years to come. Something to thinkabout... Thanks, Kyle In a message dated 02/26/2002 2:24:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, bdcbfr@chartermi.net writes: okay. i still don't understand furled leaders. would one of you nicegentlemen (or Bob, even) respond ON list?Thanks,brian----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:07 PMSubject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!!Thanks for all the great off list info. There seems to be somethingtothis furled leader thing. I guess the fishing line companies don't want usto know about them because the profit margins must be much higher fortheextruded plastic high production leaders they market. Reminds me of how Anheuser Busch has duped the American beerdrinkingpublic in to thinking that real beer is "Bud" because this type of beer iseasiest for them to produce in large quantities and enables them to make the most money. Thanks again, Kyle ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-za05.mx.aol.com (rly-za05.mail.aol.com Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:24:15 -0500Received: from proxy1-grandhaven0.chartermi.net (24.247.15.39.gha.mi. MAILRELAYINZA57-0226172408; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:24:08 -0500Received: from Creeks (24.247.61.101.gha.mi.chartermi.net g1QMO6r28236; Message-ID: From: "Brian D. Creek" References: Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:23:46 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 from Grnmtrds@aol.com Tue Feb 26 21:11:25 2002 g1R3BO828378 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:11:24 - for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 22:11:09 - Subject: re:happy camper All, Thanks for all the input on Tony Larsons web site Jim/Vermont from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Feb 26 21:30:45 2002 g1R3Ui800294 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:30:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) In a message dated 2/26/02 8:29:27 AM Central Standard Time, jojo@ipa.netwrites: Today we were shopping for groceries, I was pushing the cart and guardingher purse and passed another guy meekly following his wife around the store too. We were circulating in opposite directions. His wife handed him something to place in their cart. I made eye contact and said. "Yeah! I only drive the cart too!" He laughed and his wife looked at mine with that "look" that women get when discussing idiot spouses. both rolled their eyes and led off in opposite directions. He and I laughed and followed. Every time we passed from then on he and I laughed! The wives were getting annoyed I think! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Feb 26 21:34:03 2002 g1R3Y2800551 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:34:02 - Subject: Re: Chat in the Bamboo Room In a message dated 2/26/02 9:38:59 AM Central Standard Time,rmoon@ida.net writes: Hey! I was not saying that you shouldn't hold the "meeting" when you wish! honest! Ijsut said that I couldn't be there often! Sat nite works better notice sent out on the day of about "remember the chat room at 9 pmtonight!" or something? Alzheimers ya know! Although SWMBO says that Ihave always been that way! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from beadman@mac.com Tue Feb 26 21:43:37 2002 g1R3hb800960 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:43:37 - Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Definitely! And you'll soon find out that you keep maybe 1 leader out of 20 that you make...the rest you give away or "loan" someone - since the jig can be made from scrap wood, and the thread costs about $.50 per leader, it's one of the few flyfishing items I've found that is truly easier to make yourself...heck, the cost of the two stamps to mail a leader is more expensive! Claude At 9:31 PM -0500 , 2/26/02, Brian D. Creek wrote about Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!!Thanks to all who responded. Great. Another thing I 'need!';^) Brian ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Check out these sites for help and info on furled leaders. I love them.Claude Freaner's Furled Leader Page Furled LeaderJig Tight Lines, Richard FederationGuide/Fly Fishing Instructer/Costom TierBrookside Guides Re: Check out these sites on furledleaders!! leader out of 20 that you make...the rest you give away or"loan" someone - since the jig can be made from scrap wood,and the thread costs about $.50 per leader, it's one of the fewflyfishing items I've found that is truly easier to makeyourself...heck, the cost of the two stamps to mail a leader is moreexpensive! Claude At 9:31 PM -0500 , 2/26/02, Brian D. Creek wrote about Re: Checkout these sites on furled leaders!! 'need!';^) Brian ----- Original Message -----From: BrooksideNC@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:21PMSubject: Check out these sites on furledleaders!! Check out these sites for help and info on furledleaders. I love them.Claude FurledLeader Jig Tight Lines, Richard FederationGuide/Fly Fishing Instructer/CostomTier from beadman@mac.com Tue Feb 26 21:43:38 2002 g1R3hb800962 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:43:37 - Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! At 9:52 PM -0500 , 2/26/02, Dennis Bertram wrote about Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! loop in the end of the leader? I find that the loop tends to close upmaking it very difficult to attach the new tippet. Other than that I likethe furled leader. I make mine 7.5' long. Does anyone use a two stagetippet like a 2' of 5X + 2' of 6X? Hi, Dennis. I don't use the little tiny loop at the end since it only contains three strands of thread. That would be come the weakest point in the leader and, if broken, would allow the entire furled leader to untwist and destroy itself. I tie a figure eight loop knot in the end, and connect mono and/or tippet using loop to loop connections. Some people prefer a perfection loop - I like the figure 8 because I think it is a slimmer knot and I've never had one slip or break at the knot. As to the "two stage tippet", the furled leader ends up as about a 1X or 2X (depending on thread used) leader butt, so I add a 12-15 inch piece of 3X to the small end of the furled leader, and then can add a 24 inch piece of 5X tippet to that. For some of our small mountain brook trout fishing, I use 8/0 thread, put a 15 inch piece of 3X on the leader butt, a 15 inch piece of 5X on to that, and then a 24 inch piece of 7X tippet. Personal preference only - I suspect the furled leader would do fine going from the furled butt to a short piece of 4X and then a 6X tippet, also, if that's what you like. Claude from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 02:48:50 2002 g1R8mm807692 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 02:48:49 -0600 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Braiding machine That does indeed look like the same kind of machine.The B style machine that makes shoe laces seems to be the most likely candidate but I wonder how a taper would be incorporated? Is it just a case of reducing the number of spools of thread at the right time do you think? Mike Roberts, do you have all those silk worms fat and ready yet??? [:-)] TY At 10:07 AM 2/26/02 -0800, Hayashida Darryl wrote: That machine looks like the geesons braiding machine.http://www.geesons.com/prod1c.htm#vertDarryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:15 AM 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'Subject: RE: Braiding machine Sorry link is: http://www.cffcm.org/cmmt03.html--- Chris Wohlford wrote: It's a less than ideal photo but below is a link toabraiding machine at the Catskill Fly Fishing center. Regards,Chris --- "d.kennedy" wrote: Thanks to all for the interest.I certainly will post a report on what I have done, and the results.In order for it to be useful, I would need to gointo some considerabledetails of gear set up as this is what governs theresults.As soon as I can reproduce and control a taper Iwill burst into print.I am pretty sure the key to success will be tomechanise the process inorder to ensure a constant tension in the workingthreads, and to give areasonable chance of finishing one in this lifetime. Anyone interested in starting where I did shouldfind a book on Japanesebraiding, and look for instructions on an 8 or 16strand hollow braid. Usedifferent colored threads so you can see where youare up to in thebraiding sequence. Regards DGK __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Gameshttp://sports.yahoo.com This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 03:02:07 2002 g1R925808028 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 03:02:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Braiding machine OK, I'm sold. Where do I send my 5 bucks and it better be as good as the advertising says it is!!! [:-)] TY At 01:24 AM 2/27/02 +0900, Max wrote: Darryl et al, This might also help; Here are some URLs; http://www.northnet.org/ropeworks/text/r.html Rope maker's biblehttp://www.wctatel.net/web/equityrealty/ropeINDEX.htmlin this url, there is a brief sentence that the explained tool can make silkfishing line. /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Feb 27 07:05:40 2002 g1RD5d810414 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:05:39 - Subject: RE: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools You have to play the game when shopping, instead of grabbing the 30 packof Bud, grab 5 or 6 different six packs, 4 or 5 different chip bagsinstead of the economy bag - the 3 pack of store brand bread, then toreally make sure you don't get dragged along again - Do you really needthose? Guaranteed fishing time!(But don't tell her this was my idea, she'd find my wife, tell her, andmy wife would kick my @#$!!) Pete -----Original Message----- Lazybee45@aol.com Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) In a message dated 2/26/02 8:29:27 AM Central Standard Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: Today we were shopping for groceries, I was pushing the cart andguarding her purse and passed another guy meekly following his wife around the storetoo. We were circulating in opposite directions. His wife handed himsomething to place in their cart. I made eye contact and said. "Yeah! I onlydrive the cart too!" He laughed and his wife looked at mine with that "look"that women get when discussing idiot spouses. both rolled their eyes and ledoff in opposite directions. He and I laughed and followed. Every time wepassed from then on he and I laughed! The wives were getting annoyed I think! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from marbert@twave.net Wed Feb 27 07:47:30 2002 g1RDlT811571 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:47:30 - Subject: Furled Leaders Since furled leaders are no more than twisted strands, the web site =below may provide some ideas for the engineering types on the list. =Although it is primarily for home made rope makers, the 14 page excerpt = from the New Era Rope Machine booklet does mention making fishing lines =of silk, etc. with the machine. I have yet to see any reference to =tapering, but I'm sure the collective minds on this list could =eventually figure that out too. If nothing else, you might enjoy looking at the technology of the past. Since furled leaders are no more than twisted strands, the web site = excerpt from the New Era Rope Machine booklet does mention making = tapering, but I'm sure the collective minds on this list could = that out too. past. http://www= from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Feb 27 07:53:48 2002 g1RDrl811979 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:53:47 - id ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:46:31 -0500 id D56AM3M1; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:46:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) I think I've got you all beat on this one. One time, we were at the local superstore and I was "guarding SWMBO'spurse" as Mark put it. As I was pushing the cart toward the front ofthe store (trying, in desperation to escape, because I was nowhere nearthe sporting goods), my wife decided she needed something and took off. Meanwhile, I kept moving and met two very affectionate men (toward eachother, if you know what I mean). Well, one of them noticed SWMBO'spurse (or was it a suitcase? I always get those mixed up) and commentedto me that I had such a nice purse. I got in touch with my feminineside (now, you have to picture someone roughly Bob Nunley's sizeaccomplishing this) and said a heartfelt thank you. When SWMBO rejoinedme, I made the mistake of telling her and she about fell on the floor,laughing her arse off. I have yet to live that one down. Peter Van Schaack wrote: You have to play the game when shopping, instead of grabbing the 30 packof Bud, grab 5 or 6 different six packs, 4 or 5 different chip bagsinstead of the economy bag - the 3 pack of store brand bread, then toreally make sure you don't get dragged along again - Do you really needthose? Guaranteed fishing time!(But don't tell her this was my idea, she'd find my wife, tell her, andmy wife would kick my @#$!!) Pete -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Lazybee45@aol.comSent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:31 PM Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) In a message dated 2/26/02 8:29:27 AM Central Standard Time,jojo@ipa.netwrites: handed down to him by his father. "Son, they're all crazy -- just somemore than others." Today we were shopping for groceries, I was pushing the cart andguarding herpurse and passed another guy meekly following his wife around the storetoo.We were circulating in opposite directions. His wife handed himsomethingto place in their cart. I made eye contact and said. "Yeah! I onlydrivethe cart too!" He laughed and his wife looked at mine with that "look"thatwomen get when discussing idiot spouses. both rolled their eyes and ledoffin opposite directions. He and I laughed and followed. Every time wepassed from then on he and I laughed! The wives were getting annoyed I think! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from aebersold@ou.edu Wed Feb 27 08:52:01 2002 Received: from g1REq1814396 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:52:00 -0600 , rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: RE: Check out Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I tie a perfection loop in thefurl. I add tippets down to and including 6X by tying a bimini as a midsectionleaving the length of tippet I want. I tie a double surgeon knot in the top ofthe bimini which gives me two loops to attach to the furl. Very strong. For7X and 8X I just add a length to a 6X tied as above. -dennis aebersold ----- Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! At 9:52 PM -0500 ,2/26/02, Dennis Bertram wrote about Re: Check out these sites on furledleaders!! loop in the end of the leader? I find that the loop tends to close upmaking it very difficult to attach the new tippet. Other than that I likethe furled leader. I make mine 7.5' long. Does anyone use a two stagetippet like a 2' of 5X + 2' of 6X? Hi, Dennis. I don't use the little tiny loop at the end since it only contains three strands of thread. That would be come the weakest point in the leader and, if broken, would allow the entire furled leader to untwist and destroy itself. I tie a figure eight loop knot in the end, and connect mono and/or tippet using loop to loop connections. Some people prefer a perfection loop - I like the figure 8 because I think it is a slimmer knot and I've never had one slip or break at the knot. As to the "two stage tippet", the furled leader ends up as about a 1X or 2X (depending on thread used) leader butt, so I add a 12-15 inch piece of 3X to the small end of the furled leader, and then can add a 24 inch piece of 5X tippet to that. For some of our small mountain brook trout fishing, I use 8/0 thread, put a 15 inch piece of 3X on the leader butt, a 15 inch piece of 5X on to that, and then a 24 inch piece of 7X tippet. Personal preference only - I suspect the furled leader would do fine going from the furled butt to a short piece of 4X and then a 6X tippet, also, if that's what you like. Claude from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 08:55:17 2002 g1RErA814498 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:54:10 - g1REowE7014321 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:50:58 - Subject: New Workbench, and wood vise Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I built based on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet design Ray. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 34 1/2" wide, by 36" high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, ( I forgot to take into consideration the shelving I have on one wall of my workshop when I drew up the floor plan) I can't use the bench as an island bench like I'd originally planned. So, I had to mount the bench to the wall, with the back side of the bench on the outside wall of my shop, and the right end of the bench up against one of the inside walls of my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to the garage door. Now, the dilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be in the optimum position, yet out of the way when I'm doing something that doesn't use the vise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up this way, would you mount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's in the middle of the bench? Mark from jojo@ipa.net Wed Feb 27 09:01:05 2002 g1RF14815345 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:01:04 - helo=default) id 16g5Zn-0001lU-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:01:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Furled Leaders I'd bet that if some of you interested types in braided silk line were =to contact some of these people on the rope making sites that you could =find out all kinds of information, where machines might be, design =criteria, plans, leads to more info, etc. Surely the information isn't =that obscure. M-D Since furled leaders are no more than twisted strands, the web site =below may provide some ideas for the engineering types on the list. =Although it is primarily for home made rope makers, the 14 page excerpt = from the New Era Rope Machine booklet does mention making fishing lines =of silk, etc. with the machine. I have yet to see any reference to =tapering, but I'm sure the collective minds on this list could =eventually figure that out too. If nothing else, you might enjoy looking at the technology of the =past. I'd bet that if some of= interested types in braided silk line were to contact some of these = the rope making sites that you could find out all kinds of information, = machines might be, design criteria, plans, leads to more info, etc. = information isn't that obscure. M-D Bob = Since furled leaders are no more than twisted strands, the web = page excerpt from the New Era Rope Machine booklet does mention making= tapering, but I'm sure the collective minds on this list could = figure that out too. If nothing else, you might enjoy looking at the technology of the = past. http://www= from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Feb 27 09:07:19 2002 g1RF7I815955 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:07:18 - Subject: Furled vs. braided Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools I have seen braided leaders but not furled, what is the difference? Pete from jojo@ipa.net Wed Feb 27 09:15:40 2002 g1RFFd816644 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:15:39 -0600 helo=default) id 16g5nr-0007zK-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:15:36 -0500 Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise I'd mount it on the left, otherwise you'd have to circumnavigate every timeyou wanted to walk near the bench, or use it, and of course, you'd crashinto it on a few occasions, which would cause fitful bouts of hurled,darkly colored epithets, some painfully contorted grimaces, and perhapssomeanimated tool throwing. Anyone witnessing such acts of retribution wouldsurely think you mad, and you'd definitely lose your medical . . . Allbecause you put the vise in the middle of the bench. Seems like a high priceto pay for a misplaced vice. (Pun intended) M-D Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I builtbased on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet designRay. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 34 1/2" wide, by 36"high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, ( I forgot to take into consideration the shelving I have on one wall of my workshop when I drew up the floor plan) I can't use the bench as an island bench like I'doriginally planned. So, I had to mount the bench to the wall, with theback side of the bench on the outside wall of my shop, and the right end of the bench up against one of the inside walls of my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to the garage door. Now, thedilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be in the optimumposition, yet out of the way when I'm doing something that doesn't use thevise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up this way, would youmount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's in the middle of thebench? Mark from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 09:46:43 2002 g1RFdt818362 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:41:49 - g1RFcxE7015285 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:38:59 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Tom, Thanks. That's kind of the direction I was leaning in, just wondered if there may be any advantages to mounting it in the middle. Mark At 10:25 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: Mark - 12' gives you some lattitude, but in general, if you are right handed, mount the vise toward the left end of the bench. from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 09:55:37 2002 g1RFta819774 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:55:36 - g1RFtNE7015619 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:55:23 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Hi Bill, I'm in the process of making a mount for the metal working vise, so that I can mount it in the wood vise when I need it. That way, I can stuff it under the bench when I'm not using it, it's out of the way, and I'm not hindered by having two vises permanently mounted on the bench. Looks like the consensus so far is the left end of the bench. Thanks,Mark At 10:54 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: Mark, I use a woodworker's vise (not a metal working vise) on the left end of my bench. I use it for pressing nodes and just holding stuff when I work. The top is flush to the top of the bench, so it's not in the way. If you use a metal working vise for pressing nodes, I'd drill some holes in the top of the bench so it can be taken down when not in use. Hope this helps, bill At 09:50 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I built based on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet design Ray. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 34 1/2" wide, by 36" high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, ( I forgot to take into consideration the shelving I have on one wall of my workshop when I drew up the floor plan) I can't use the bench as an island bench like I'd originally planned. So, I had to mount the bench to the wall, with the back side of the bench on the outside wall of my shop, and the right end of the bench up against one of the inside walls of my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to the garage door. Now, the dilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be in the optimum position, yet out of the way when I'm doing something that doesn't use the vise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up this way, would you mount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's in the middle of the bench? Mark from cfreaner@hq.nasa.gov Wed Feb 27 09:57:52 2002 g1RFvp820101 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:57:51 - for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:57:49 - Subject: Fwd: NASA PUBLICATION BRINGS SPACE TECHNOLOGY DOWN TOEARTH Hi, all. transfer of high-tech research to practical commercial uses. Page 54 is even fishing related .Claude X-Authentication-Warning: spinoza.public.hq.nasa.gov: majordom set sender to owner-press-release using -f From: NASANews@hq.nasa.govSubject: NASA PUBLICATION BRINGS SPACE TECHNOLOGY DOWN TO EARTHSender: owner-press-release@lists.hq.nasa.gov Michael BraukusHeadquarters, Washington Feb. 26, 2002(Phone: 202/358-1979) RELEASE: 02-36 NASA PUBLICATION BRINGS SPACE TECHNOLOGY DOWN TO EARTH One of the most important byproducts of aerospaceexploration and research is finding ways to apply thesecutting-edge technologies to life here on Earth. Many of theconveniences people take for granted today were firstdeveloped by NASA. These latest agency innovations are now featured in the 2001issue of Spinoff. A new video enhancement tool and a non-invasive heart monitor are just a couple of the agency'snearly 50 commercialized products featured. In addition to highlighting new commercial products benefiting from NASA technology, Spinoff revisits past innovations in a special millennium feature-section. Since 1976, Spinoff has showcased more than 1,300 publicbenefits of NASA's commercial partnerships with privateindustry. The publication also covers the agency's researchand development activities and serves as a reference resourceto the agency's commercial technology network. Since NASA's inception in 1958, technologies resulting fromthe space program have introduced Americans to hundreds of newor improved products. The 2001 Spinoff describes the latestproducts in the areas of health and medicine, transportation,public safety, computer technology, manufacturing technology,consumer/home/recreation, and environment and resourcesmanagement. Online versions of Spinoff, beginning with the 1996 issue, areavailable on the World Wide Web. ... http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/ http://www.nctn.hq.nasa.gov/ - end - from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 10:16:53 2002 g1RGGl821367 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:16:48 - g1RGGbE7016138 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:16:37 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Chad, I'd thought about doing that too, but due to the smallishness of the shop, I don't have the space to store a movable table when it's not in use. So, I'm trying to make what I've got as versatile as possible. Won't be the most optimum, but I'll be able to get the most bang for the square footage. Kinda like one of them there Sherline mill/lathes..... Mark At 09:01 AM 2/27/2002 -0800, you wrote: Mark, Just a suggestion, I built a 2'x2' freestand table for my vise, gotold coaster wheels on it, makes it portable and can park out of the waywhennot in use, also some xtra table top space & storage shelf. Made it heavyduty so I can tork on vise. Enjoy, Chad-----Original Message-----From: Mark Wendt Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:55 AMSubject: New Workbench, and wood vise Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I builtbased on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet designRay. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 34 1/2" wide, by 36"high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, ( I forgot to take intoconsideration the shelving I have on one wall of my workshop when I drewupthe floor plan) I can't use the bench as an island bench like I'doriginally planned. So, I had to mount the bench to the wall, with theback side of the bench on the outside wall of my shop, and the right endofthe bench up against one of the inside walls of my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to the garage door. Now, the dilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be in the optimumposition, yet out of the way when I'm doing something that doesn't usethevise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up this way, would youmount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's in the middle of thebench? Mark from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 10:16:59 2002 g1RGGw821405 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:16:59 - g1RGEDE7016078 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:14:13 - Subject: RE: New Workbench, and wood vise Troy, Going with the consensus, I'm going to mount it near the left end of the bench. That way, I can use the vise to hold the metal vise mount, my shotgun shell reloader, which I've got mounted on a wooden base, and other little goodies I'll come up with in the future. I'm planning on only having one vise mounted directly on the bench, the wood vise, and then using the wood vise to hold everything else. Mark At 10:03 AM 2/27/2002 -0600, you wrote: Where will the woodworking vise be? I would keep 2 to 3 feet betweenvises,because you can use both at the same time to hold supports or whatever. Ifyou put them 8" apart, then they will not be very useful to use at the sametime. JMHO, TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:55 AM Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Hi Bill, I'm in the process of making a mount for the metal working vise,so that I can mount it in the wood vise when I need it. That way, I canstuff it under the bench when I'm not using it, it's out of the way, andI'm not hindered by having two vises permanently mounted on thebench. Looks like the consensus so far is the left end of the bench. Thanks,Mark At 10:54 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: Mark, I use a woodworker's vise (not a metal working vise) on the left end of mybench. I use it for pressing nodes and just holding stuff when I work. Thetop is flush to the top of the bench, so it's not in the way. If you use ametal working vise for pressing nodes, I'd drill some holes in the top ofthe bench so it can be taken down when not in use. Hope this helps, bill At 09:50 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench,which I built based on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is asweet design Ray. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 341/2" wide, by 36" high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, (I forgot to take into consideration the shelving I have on one wall ofmy workshop when I drew up the floor plan) I can't use the bench as anisland bench like I'd originally planned. So, I had to mount the benchto the wall, with the back side of the bench on the outside wall of myshop, and the right end of the bench up against one of the inside wallsof my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to thegaragedoor. Now, the dilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be inthe optimum position, yet out of the way when I'm doing something thatdoesn't use the vise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up thisway, would you mount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's inthe middle of the bench? Mark from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 10:24:20 2002 g1RGOJ822466 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:24:19 - g1RGAXE7016014 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:10:33 - Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Bill, I had a narrower bench before, and I think I'm going to like the "wide track" of the new bench. It'll allow me room to shove machine tools and other things to the back of the bench where they're out of the way, in between uses. I kinda figured you meant the front of the bench. I'm planning on building a 'boo splitter that'll mount in the wood vise, and I want to make sure I have enough room to maneuver the culms. Mark At 10:56 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: I forgot to mention that I mounted it on the FRONT left end of the bench. Otherwise there might not be enough clearance with the wall. My bench is about 34 inches deep. If I had it to do over again, I'd make it narrower to make it easier to reach stuff. Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:54:16 -0500 From: Bill Hoy Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Mark, I use a woodworker's vise (not a metal working vise) on the left end of my bench. I use it for pressing nodes and just holding stuff when I work. The top is flush to the top of the bench, so it's not in the way. If you use a metal working vise for pressing nodes, I'd drill some holes in the top of the bench so it can be taken down when not in use. Hope this helps, bill At 09:50 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I built based on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet design Ray. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 34 1/2" wide, by 36" high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, ( I forgot to take into consideration the shelving I have on one wall of my workshop when I drew up the floor plan) I can't use the bench as an island bench like I'd originally planned. So, I had to mount the bench to the wall, with the back side of the bench on the outside wall of my shop, and the right end of the bench up against one of the inside walls of my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to the garage door. Now, the dilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be in the optimum position, yet out of the way when I'm doing something that doesn't use the vise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up this way, would you mount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's in the middle of the bench? Mark from saweiss@flash.net Wed Feb 27 10:34:23 2002 g1RGYM823373 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:34:22 - g1RGYKl38260 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:34:21 -0500 Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Organization: Prodigy Internet Mark,If I were in your position, and I am right-handed, I would sacrifice about2-3 feet of the bench by either moving it away from the right side wall or vise on the right front end of the bench. Mine is there and it is not onlyuseful but is essential when cutting off and rough planing with the shortfirst form. If you put another vise on the front left, you could use thatone for splitting long sections.Steve from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 10:54:29 2002 g1RGsS824818 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:54:28 - g1RGo5E7016858 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:50:05 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Hey Bubba, Nyuk, nyuk.... Course it wouldn't be the first time projectiles have managed to embed themselves in the wall....... And boy lemme tell ya, as cramped as my workshop used to be, I managed to impact various portions of my anatomy on things much harder than skin and bones. I've got a nice 4' aisle down the center of my shop now, and with the reconfigured shelving, everything is sooooo much more orderly, and sooooo much easier to clean up after a few hours in the shop. Since I got out of the model airplane kit manufacturing bidness, I more or less let the shop go to hell, only re- arranging things if I needed to do something. So, not only did I make meself a brand new bench, I gave the shop a complete overhaul and spring cleaning. It's amazing how insidious balsa dust really is. I mean, I knew the little floaties could get anywhere, that's why I always wore a respirator when I was cutting balsa lumber. But there were places in the shop that hadn't seen daylight in almost 7 years, and man, the balsa dust was caked up almost 2" thick! It'll be an ongoing process for a while, as I start working out there more often, and I'll probably need to add a shelf here or there, or re-arrange the shelving I have. Found a neat little space saver for the shelves. Whilst I was perusing Home Depot for my lumber, I happened to walk down the fasteners aisle. Opposite the drywall screws were these stackable bins in a couple of different sizes. I bought up all the sock they had on hand, and they work great! They're about $3 - $5 apiece, but I now have twice the storage space on each shelf. Annnnddd, it looks so Christmasy! They came in really nice pine green and red colors. Sure wouldn't wanna misplace my vices. They're the only fun I have any more..... Mark At 09:12 AM 2/27/2002 -0600, you wrote: I'd mount it on the left, otherwise you'd have to circumnavigate every timeyou wanted to walk near the bench, or use it, and of course, you'd crashinto it on a few occasions, which would cause fitful bouts of hurled,darkly colored epithets, some painfully contorted grimaces, and perhapssomeanimated tool throwing. Anyone witnessing such acts of retribution wouldsurely think you mad, and you'd definitely lose your medical . . . Allbecause you put the vise in the middle of the bench. Seems like a high priceto pay for a misplaced vice. (Pun intended) M-D from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 10:54:32 2002 g1RGsT824820 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:54:29 - g1RGWWE7016511 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:32:32 - Subject: RE: New Workbench, and wood vise g1RGsW824825 Hey Troy, In the epic process of trying to squeeze as many applications as I can out of this work bench (since I reload my own shotgun shells - I started shooting sporting clays this winter with a few buds of mine, also building radio controlled model aircraft - thank God for a bench long enough to build the long fuselages and big wings!!!!, and of course, now building 'boo rods), I'm planning on drilling holes for bench dogs and other accoutrements. I'm also going to be replacing the 1/4" masonite on the one end with a 6' x 34" x 1/4 sheet of tempered glass for glue layups. (Don't ask how I came across a sheet of glass that size, SWMBO still rankles at the thought of her precious dining room table with a chunk of glass missing from one of the corners..... ;^?). I have to wait a bit to get the glass cut to fit the size, 'cause I have to clean out the other side of the garage/workshop to get to it. Bunch of airplanes and other sorts of boy toys sitting in front of it at the moment. Ray's design is "REALLY" stout. The legs are built using interlocking 2" x 4"'s, with 3 - 2" x 4"'s as cross braces, the underlaying top is 3 - 2" x 12" x 12' s, with 1/4" masonite on the top. Then the legs are tied together with sheets of 3/8" ply, making shelves. Then there are 2 - 2" x 2"'s full length on both the front and back sides of the bench to really tie everything together. Damned near got a hernia carting all the lumber home from Home Depot...... Sure did make the Isuzu Rodeo squat a bit in the back. Also, thank God for a resaw blade in my big bandsaw. The blade is 1 - 1/2 " wide, and 4 teeth per inch. Sure made short work resawing the 2" x 4" x 12' into 2" x 2" x 12' stock. Building the bench was a lot of fun, and it was nice to smell sawdust in the workshop again. SWMBO came out a couple of times, and watched, just shaking her head. Then last night, as we're watching the show "24", she hauls out this catalog, and says, Hmmmph, since you just got done creating that work of wonder in you shop, you now have the bench and tools necessary to make me this 3 drawer Shaker dresser. Annnnnnd, I want it made out of walnut, to match the antique bed we have in the spare bedroom. Oh well, at least it's another excuse to get out into the shop.... Mark At 09:06 AM 2/27/2002 -0600, you wrote: Howdy Mark -- I haven't mounted anything to my bench in a "permanent" way. I have holesall over the top of my bench, for holding down various things. I use wingnuts under the bench, so I can easily remove whatever I have mounted. Mybench is only 8' long, but hell for stout, made from 4X4's and 2X6's, and15/16 OSB for the top. I could drive my little Honda across the top of itif it were wide enough.... The thing to think about, is what will you be vising in it, and where willyou be working on the item in the vise. This will guide you as to where tomount it. You can't go wrong mounting it in the middle of the bench, solong as you are willing and able to remove it when necessary.... Good luck-- TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: New Workbench, and wood vise Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which Ibuiltbased on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet designRay. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 34 1/2" wide, by 36"high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, ( I forgot to take intoconsideration the shelving I have on one wall of my workshop when I drew upthe floor plan) I can't use the bench as an island bench like I'doriginally planned. So, I had to mount the bench to the wall, with theback side of the bench on the outside wall of my shop, and the right end ofthe bench up against one of the inside walls of my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to the garage door. Now, the dilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be in the optimumposition, yet out of the way when I'm doing something that doesn't use thevise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up this way, would youmount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's in the middle of thebench? Mark from canazon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 27 10:55:56 2002 g1RGtt824930 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:55:55 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16g7Mj-0006Qk-00; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:55:42 -0500 Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise mark,i also have a vice on each end. it just seems to give me moreflexibility. i also have an empty bottle of grand marnier, so i don't workto long without remembering to get a drink.mike ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Mark,If I were in your position, and I am right-handed, I would sacrifice about2-3 feet of the bench by either moving it away from the right side wall or vise on the right front end of the bench. Mine is there and it is not onlyuseful but is essential when cutting off and rough planing with the shortfirst form. If you put another vise on the front left, you could use thatone for splitting long sections.Steve from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 11:11:16 2002 g1RHBF826330 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:11:15 - g1RHBCUi017555 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:11:13 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Ahhh, there is method to the madness.... Mark At 11:48 AM 2/27/2002 -0600, you wrote: mark,i also have a vice on each end. it just seems to give me moreflexibility. i also have an empty bottle of grand marnier, so i don't workto long without remembering to get a drink.mike ----- Original Message -----From: "Steven A. Weiss" Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:34 AMSubject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Mark,If I were in your position, and I am right-handed, I would sacrifice about2-3 feet of the bench by either moving it away from the right side wall or vise on the right front end of the bench. Mine is there and it is not onlyuseful but is essential when cutting off and rough planing with the shortfirst form. If you put another vise on the front left, you could use thatone for splitting long sections.Steve from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Feb 27 11:30:09 2002 g1RHU8827471 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:30:08 - Subject: Weather? Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing was very pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm all year with cold troutstreams? Pete from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Wed Feb 27 11:39:06 2002 g1RHd5828259 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:39:05 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:24:06 -0600 Subject: RE: Weather? New Mexico, but don't tell anyone. I want to retire there, and I don't wantthe property values skyrocketing more than they already have..... : ) -----Original Message----- Subject: Weather? Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing was very pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm all year with cold troutstreams? Pete from lkoeser@ceva.net Wed Feb 27 11:43:54 2002 g1RHhr828890 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:43:54 - Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:06:32 -0500 Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise I have a bench that is mounted to wall, almost that is. I had shelving thatwas immediately overhead. So my bench is only 12" wide but sticks 24" fromwall. (Shop is only 8' wide). To facilitate max use of space and bench, mywood vise is a Record portable clamp type and positioned to suit myimmediate needs.. Haven't had a need for larger to make rods.Lee----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Tom, Thanks. That's kind of the direction I was leaning in, justwondered if there may be any advantages to mounting it in the middle. Mark At 10:25 AM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: Mark - 12' gives you some lattitude, but in general, if you are righthanded, mount the vise toward the left end of the bench. from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Wed Feb 27 11:44:19 2002 g1RHiI828969 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:44:18 - Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:44:12 -0800 Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:44:12 GMT Subject: Re: Weather? FILETIME=[5E37C1B0:01C1BFB6] Pete DREAMS pleasurable, cold trout Join the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from mlbrown@ucalgary.ca Wed Feb 27 12:14:34 2002 g1RIEX800867 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:14:33 -0600 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:14:59 -0700 smap (V2.0) id ZZ898205; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:13:25 -0700 Subject: Quick and Dirty Furled Leaders If you want a quick and dirty method for trying out furled leaders don'tbother making a jig. Zip down to the basement with a few hefty lead sinkers, find a wall youdon't really care about and shove in a couple of rows of those plasticbarrel (stubby hour glass?) shaped push pins spaced accordingly. The procedure is exactly as laid out on the Globalflyfisher web site, ofcourse lengthwise you are limited to your ceiling height but the set upruns smoothly when you can hang everything vertically and just letgravity and lead sinkers do the untwisting for you. Mark in Calgary from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 12:16:02 2002 g1RIG1801079 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:16:01 - g1RIG02D019016 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:16:00 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Steve, If I could, I would. Problem is, again relating to space in the workshop, is my industrial size (18" table) bandsaw is positioned close to the left end of the bench, and there really isn't any room to move it anywhere else. So I'm kinda stuck with the layout I have. Aaaahhhh, my kingdom for a big workshop..... Mark At 09:34 AM 2/27/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark,If I were in your position, and I am right-handed, I would sacrifice about2-3 feet of the bench by either moving it away from the right side wall or vise on the right front end of the bench. Mine is there and it is not onlyuseful but is essential when cutting off and rough planing with the shortfirst form. If you put another vise on the front left, you could use thatone for splitting long sections.Steve from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 12:18:14 2002 g1RIIC801356 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:18:13 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise They're a lot of trouble to make but don't write off a European style bench with a tail vise or failing that if it looks too hard to bother with a leg vise. Because these don't have the rods passing through them required in regular vises it's so easy to hold work because there are no obstructions. Leg vises are also easy to add to an existing work bench and a good one may become the "main" vise you use.The first bench I made had a leg vise as the only vise and a bench stop for planing.The leg vise was simply the thickest threaded rod I could lay my hands on and a plumber's galv "T" section that I put on the rod and secured with a hole drilled through it and the rod with a length of coat hanger stuck through the hole to secure it and a length of broom stick handle passed through the part that the handle obviously would have to pass through for it to be the vise handle.You make the leg section with a piece of 4 x 2 with a hole drilled about 1 foot from the top to accept the rod that passes through it.The rod is attached to the bench very firmly with a nut epoxied to the bench and or encapsulated within the bench. So what we have is the rod secured to the bench firmly, the rod passes through a hole in the 4 x 2 then on to the handle. Turn the handle and the rod moves in and out allowing the 4 x 2 to loosen or tighten against the bench. The bottom of the leg is held with an adjustable width adjuster thingy made from 2 pieces of ply wood with some holes drilled in a line which are set to the bench and wide enough to allow the leg to fit between. A bolt goes through these holes and a hole in the 4 x 2 to accept the bolt.The reason for the series of holes at the bottom is as you adjust the width of the "jaw" of the leg vise it'll widen. By adjusting the width on the bottom of the leg the jaws keep parrellel. Costs about $8 to make and about 1 hr to do and like I wrote, it works well. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Wed Feb 27 12:27:26 2002 g1RIRP802204 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:27:25 - g1RIRO2D019260 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:27:24 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Tony, Now there's an interesting idea. I think I remember seeing one of these vises on an old cabinet makers workbench when I was growing up. I hadn't thought of a nice simple design such as this, because I hadn't seen one of them in a long time. Know any place on the web I can pick up a set of plans? Thanks,Mark At 02:24 AM 2/28/2002 +0800, you wrote: They're a lot of trouble to make but don't write off a European style bench with a tail vise or failing that if it looks too hard to bother with a leg vise. Because these don't have the rods passing through them required in regular vises it's so easy to hold work because there are no obstructions. Leg vises are also easy to add to an existing work bench and a good one may become the "main" vise you use.The first bench I made had a leg vise as the only vise and a bench stop The leg vise was simply the thickest threaded rod I could lay my hands on and a plumber's galv "T" section that I put on the rod and secured with a hole drilled through it and the rod with a length of coat hanger stuck through the hole to secure it and a length of broom stick handle passed through the part that the handle obviously would have to pass through for it to be the vise handle.You make the leg section with a piece of 4 x 2 with a hole drilled about 1 foot from the top to accept the rod that passes through it.The rod is attached to the bench very firmly with a nut epoxied to the bench and or encapsulated within the bench. So what we have is the rod secured to the bench firmly, the rod passes through a hole in the 4 x 2 then on to the handle. Turn the handle and the rod moves in and out allowing the 4 x 2 to loosen or tighten against the bench. The bottom of the leg is held with an adjustable width adjuster thingy made from 2 pieces of ply wood with some holes drilled in a line which are set to the bench and wide enough to allow the leg to fit between. A bolt goes through these holes and a hole in the 4 x 2 to accept the bolt.The reason for the series of holes at the bottom is as you adjust the width of the "jaw" of the leg vise it'll widen. By adjusting the width on the bottom of the leg the jaws keep parrellel. Costs about $8 to make and about 1 hr to do and like I wrote, it works well. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from chris_wohlford@yahoo.com Wed Feb 27 12:49:59 2002 g1RInw803490 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:49:58 - Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:49:58 PST Subject: Re: Weather? California comes pretty close [:)] Chris --- Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing wasvery pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm allyear with cold troutstreams? Pete __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 12:51:56 2002 g1RIpt803697 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:51:55 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Hi Mark,I don't know off hand but if you give me a day I can draw something and put it on my home page. Tony At 01:27 PM 2/27/02 -0500, you wrote: Tony, Now there's an interesting idea. I think I remember seeing one of these vises on an old cabinet makers workbench when I was growing up. I hadn't thought of a nice simple design such as this, because I hadn't seen one of them in a long time. Know any place on the web I can pick up a set of plans? Thanks,Mark At 02:24 AM 2/28/2002 +0800, you wrote: They're a lot of trouble to make but don't write off a European style bench with a tail vise or failing that if it looks too hard to bother with a leg vise. Because these don't have the rods passing through them required in regular vises it's so easy to hold work because there are no obstructions. Leg vises are also easy to add to an existing work bench and a good one may become the "main" vise you use.The first bench I made had a leg vise as the only vise and a bench stop The leg vise was simply the thickest threaded rod I could lay my hands on and a plumber's galv "T" section that I put on the rod and secured with a hole drilled through it and the rod with a length of coat hanger stuck through the hole to secure it and a length of broom stick handle passed through the part that the handle obviously would have to pass through for it to be the vise handle.You make the leg section with a piece of 4 x 2 with a hole drilled about 1 foot from the top to accept the rod that passes through it.The rod is attached to the bench very firmly with a nut epoxied to the bench and or encapsulated within the bench. So what we have is the rod secured to the bench firmly, the rod passes through a hole in the 4 x 2 then on to the handle. Turn the handle and the rod moves in and out allowing the 4 x 2 to loosen or tighten against the bench. The bottom of the leg is held with an adjustable width adjuster thingy made from 2 pieces of ply wood with some holes drilled in a line which are set to the bench and wide enough to allow the leg to fit between. A bolt goes through these holes and a hole in the 4 x 2 to accept the bolt.The reason for the series of holes at the bottom is as you adjust the width of the "jaw" of the leg vise it'll widen. By adjusting the width on the bottom of the leg the jaws keep parrellel. Costs about $8 to make and about 1 hr to do and like I wrote, it workswell. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from cw@vanion.com Wed Feb 27 13:22:27 2002 g1RJMQ805490 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:22:27 - for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:27:18 - Subject: Another vise Just started using a cam vise, very quick and low profile. A nice =addition to the shop. Got thru Grizzly, and theirs has plastic jaws.Chad Just started using a cam vise,very = low profile. A nice addition to the shop. Got thru Grizzly, and theirs = plastic jaws.Chad from bob@mcelvain.org Wed Feb 27 13:51:40 2002 g1RJpd807108 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:51:39 -0600 Feb 2002 13:02:28 -0700 MST Subject: Re: Weather? I live in Utah, we fish all winter.=A0 We get a lot of sunnydays and the water below the dams is a constant 50 degrees.=A0 Thehardestpart can be getting through the 4 feet of snow on the bank to the water,wet felt soles really pick up snow.=A0 Skiing in the morning, fishing inthe afternoon, its a tough life.Bob McElvain At 12:32 PM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote: pleasurable, trout from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Wed Feb 27 13:59:40 2002 g1RJxd807741 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:59:40 - id ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:47:22 -0500 Subject: RE:furled leaders Just want to thank all contributors for the information, analyses, andwebsites for furled leaders; you've convinced me that I shouldn't only usethem, but make them as well. What's a few nails? That empty wall neededdecorating anyway . . . Tom from kenealyj@gwi.net Wed Feb 27 14:06:22 2002 g1RK6L808349 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:06:21 - "Rod Makers" Subject: Re: Weather? Maine doesn't! ;o( John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Weather? California comes pretty close [:)] Chris --- Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing wasvery pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm allyear with cold troutstreams? Pete __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from kenealyj@gwi.net Wed Feb 27 14:08:18 2002 g1RK8H808626 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:08:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Weather? Last year in mid April, a bunch of us took snow mobiles in to fish the =Rapid River here in Maine. John K Subject: Re: Weather? I live in Utah, we fish all winter. We get a lot of sunny days and =the water below the dams is a constant 50 degrees. The hardest part can =be getting through the 4 feet of snow on the bank to the water, wet felt =soles really pick up snow. Skiing in the morning, fishing in the =afternoon, its a tough life.Bob McElvain At 12:32 PM 2/27/2002 -0500, you wrote:Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing was very =pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm all year with cold =troutstreams? Pete Last year in mid April, a bunch of us = mobiles in to fish the Rapid River here in Maine. John K ----- Original Message ----- Bob = Sent: Wednesday, February 27, = PMSubject: Re: Weather?I live in Utah, we fish all = lot of sunny days and the water below the dams is a constant 50 = The hardest part can be getting through the 4 feet of snow on the bank = fishing in the afternoon, its a tough life.Bob McElvainAt = it warm all year with cold = from johnh@structsys.com Wed Feb 27 15:58:55 2002 g1RLws819868 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:58:54 -0600 g1RLwos14115 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:58:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! the loop in the end of the leader? I find that the loop tends to close upmaking it very difficult to attach the new tippet. Other than that I = like the furled leader. I make mine 7.5' long. Does anyone use a two stagetippet like a 2' of 5X + 2' of 6X? Dennis Bertram I made mine with 6/0 unithread using Claude Freaners method. I really =liked the way it performed. I tied a section of 3x to the end loop of =the furled leader using an albright knot. Then on to a 4x and then a =5x tippet using blood knots. The problem I encountered was that I broke the furled leader two or =three times just above the albright knot. Once when I snagged a tree on =my backcast, and once when I set the hook on a log. I wonder of 6/o uni =is strong enough to use on a 6 wt? john I made mine with 6/0 unithread using = section of 3x to the end loop of the furled leader using an albright = knots. The problem I encountered was that I = snagged a tree on my backcast, and once when I set the hook on a = john from GBuckley@aapg.org Wed Feb 27 16:21:31 2002 g1RMLV821596 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:21:31 - 27 Feb 02 16:26:19 -0600 -0600 27 Feb 02 16:24:45 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Delamination city I've talked about this Four Brothers rod a couple of times and am nowresolved to make it my "first rod". As it (and my budget and schedule) canwithstand any mistakes I might make on it as opposed to bunging up a freshbatch of strips. Here's my one big hangup: It has delaminated BADLY in many spots Some are to the point all six strips have been freed from one another for afoot or two down the butt and mid sections. 2 Tips seem to be in need ofnormal degree of restoration (stripping, wraps, guides, new coat,straightening, etc). In an extreme situation like this what is the proper cure? Neither Sinclairnor Kirkfield address this particular situation and I wonder if it's becausethey would just as soon use it as kindling as pursue the headache. I suppose I'm hoping someone will say - delaminate the rest of each section such) and glop your adhesive in the delaminated areas, pass through thebinder and proceed as normal... Sure could use the input of the list members. Gerald from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Feb 27 16:57:20 2002 g1RMvJ823795 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:57:19 - g1RMvEg10231 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:57:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Weather? Sunday it was 72 here in Arkansas, Yesterday it never made it to 20*.We had some snow showers.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing was very pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm all year with cold troutstreams? Pete from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 17:19:39 2002 g1RNJc825045 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:19:38 - Subject: Re: Weather? There's a place out here called Marble Bar, never falls below about 70f. Of course it may just make 125f too but you have to take the terrible with the incompressibly awful in these places if you don't want cold weather ever [:-)] The only trout there are in people's minds of course. TY At 03:09 PM 2/27/02 -0500, John Kenealy wrote: Maine doesn't! ;o( John K----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Wohlford" Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Weather? California comes pretty close [:)] Chris --- Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing wasvery pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm allyear with cold troutstreams? Pete __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from wkifer@harborside.com Wed Feb 27 17:57:23 2002 g1RNvM826406 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:57:22 - Subject: Test --=======489E4644======= ascii; format=flowed Hello? --=======489E4644=======-- from wkifer@harborside.com Wed Feb 27 17:59:25 2002 g1RNxO826646 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:59:25 - Subject: Test --=======4B39826======= ascii; format=flowed Hello again? --=======4B39826=======-- from dybam@oct.net Wed Feb 27 18:07:25 2002 g1S07P827140 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:07:25 - Subject: Re: Weather? Communications, Inc. As a young man went hunting one February day in 1954, it was 50* within 4hours it was -40 below zero. I held out in a cave ,built a fire and triedto stay alive. We had no car so we later walked home . I did terrible damageto my hands and feet. The 90 degree weather change in one day set a recordand oh how I remember it. The location was Miles City Montana. Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Weather? There's a place out here called Marble Bar, never falls below about 70f. Of course it may just make 125f too but you have to take the terrible with the incompressibly awful in these places if you don't want cold weather ever [:-)] The only trout there are in people's minds of course. TY At 03:09 PM 2/27/02 -0500, John Kenealy wrote: Maine doesn't! ;o( John K----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Wohlford" Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Weather? California comes pretty close [:)] Chris --- Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing wasvery pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm allyear with cold troutstreams? Pete __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from Troutgetter@aol.com Wed Feb 27 18:18:22 2002 g1S0IL827690 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:18:21 - Subject: Re: Happy Camper Sorry for the late reply,I received an e-mail from him Feb 12 saying he just added 11/64's and was going to add 15/64's within four or five weeks. My concern right now is that he doesn't receive ENOUGH orders and quits making them. I have switched to his ferrules for my rods. I like that they are a little shorter and lighter, and the work is topnotch at any price. Very quick to lap, the tabs don't need much thinning, and feather out quickly. I wish I had a financial interest, but ... alas ...Mike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from Grnmtrds@aol.com Wed Feb 27 18:23:29 2002 g1S0NT828056 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:23:29 - for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:23:19 - Subject: why I love my wife! Hello, This is a true story. Can't even change the names to protect the guilty. Quite a few years ago, I was sitting at the dinner table when I calmly mentioned to my wife that I wasn't real fond of what I had been getting for dinners lately. About that time, my daughter who was about 7 or 8 , took sides with me and my wife hit me with you can go shopping next time with or without me. Knowing how long it usually took her to shop I elected to go with my daughter. We bonded pretty well. When we got home My spouse asked how we did andmy reply was great and I didn't even spend as much as you do. She said good but you've only got 3 bags of food. I told her I had spent 100.00 dollars. She still didn't believe me. We opened those bags and put away all our smoked clams,sardines,pickled pig feet, lamb tongues and pepperoni. On top of that a case of soda and I even bought my wife of Heineken Dark. While she was trying to be nice and ask me if I remembered that she didn't drink beer, I told her I had forgotten the pickled eggs. Well, we are still married and have been for 36 years. And she still won't go shopping with me and definitely I can't be trusted to go alone. Only if I am going to camp am I allowed to go shopping. That my friends, is a true story. Good luck,Jim/Vermont from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Feb 27 18:31:16 2002 g1S0VF828510 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:31:15 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Delamination city Hi Gerald, You're not telling us what kind of glue You've been using....if this happendto me, I would try to delaminate the hole rod, clean and glue up agian. Ican't tell You what methode to use, don't knowing what kind of adhesive youused.......I would also be very interesting in knowing what made the rod delaminate...on the first two rods I made, I had sort of the same problem, only not thatsever. My problem was the working time for the glue I used, and the time Ispent on gluing up my section.... danny from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 18:34:25 2002 g1S0YO828888 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:34:24 - Subject: Re: Weather? from the little I've seen of very cold mountain in weather in NZ I've always considered the difference between the worst heat and cold is they are exactly the same but totally different if you know what I mean.I can understand how people living in a cold climate can't imagine it ever being too hot but believe me it is no fun beyond a point.Most years we hear of people (mainly Germans as it happens) who literally cook when they go "walkabout" as everybody except Aussies call it. Must be just like one of we Bronzed ANZACs going for a walk in Winter up your way with only an orange and slightly thicker T shirt. Tony At 06:02 PM 2/27/02 -0600, Mark Dyba wrote: As a young man went hunting one February day in 1954, it was 50* within 4hours it was -40 below zero. I held out in a cave ,built a fire and triedto stay alive. We had no car so we later walked home . I did terrible damageto my hands and feet. The 90 degree weather change in one day set arecordand oh how I remember it. The location was Miles City Montana. Mark----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:26 PMSubject: Re: Weather? There's a place out here called Marble Bar, never falls below about 70f. Of course it may just make 125f too but you have to take the terrible with the incompressibly awful in these places if you don't want cold weather ever [:-)] The only trout there are in people's minds of course. TY At 03:09 PM 2/27/02 -0500, John Kenealy wrote: Maine doesn't! ;o( John K----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Wohlford" Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Weather? California comes pretty close [:)] Chris --- Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing wasvery pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm allyear with cold troutstreams? Pete __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/ AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from bpsj@brtc.net Wed Feb 27 18:41:21 2002 g1S0fK829437 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:41:20 - ;Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:44:12 -0600 Subject: post pone set rodmakers mail postpone set rodmakers mail =postpone from channer@frontier.net Wed Feb 27 18:42:35 2002 g1S0gZ829591 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:42:35 - for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:42:40 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Mark;I'm right handed and I mounted my 7" woodworking vise a foot or so tothe right of center. My shop is 12'x16' with the door in the center of 12' wall, the workbench is 2 2x12's that wrap the rest of the walls, theviseis on the side I use for maost of my cane work, the other 2 sideshold the lathe and the beveller. I put the vise where I did becausethat's what I press nodes with and I wanted it handy to the mainworkstation and with enough room on either side for the rest of the canestrip when pressing nodes close to the ends. Don't bemoan not having abig shop, make it as big as you need and not much more, otherwise itjust gets to be a long walk from station to station, and the much moreroom for the mess to build up in. just a thoughtjohn Mark Wendt wrote: Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I builtbased on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet design from OSEGAL@glcc.com Wed Feb 27 18:48:24 2002 g1S0mN800025 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:48:23 - with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:48:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Weather? Marble Bar and Southern Cross (West Aussie) the two hottest places in the =world. I have been there several times. All you can see are roos, goanas, =lizards, snakes, sheep, and aborigines. OAS There's a place out here called Marble Bar, never falls below about 70f. = course it may just make 125f too but you have to take the terrible with = incompressibly awful in these places if you don't want cold weather ever = /*************************************************************************/= /*************************************************************************/= Marble Bar and Southern Cross (West Aussie) thetwo = places in the world. I have been there several times. All you can see are = goanas, lizards, snakes, sheep, and aborigines. OAS = below about 70f. Of course it may just make 125f too but you have to= the terrible with the incompressibly awful in these places if you = cold weather ever [:-)] The only trout there are in people's minds of = TY At 03:09 PM 2/27/02 -0500, John Kenealy wrote: = Re: = < pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.= = = /******************************************************************= AV Young Visit my web site at:" http://www.iinet.net.= " Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear = failure, For I know the fish are in there some place. My rod and = /******************************************************************= from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Feb 27 18:53:05 2002 g1S0r4800409 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:53:04 - for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:52:44 - Subject: Re: Why I love my wife (Yes, it is rodmaking related) In a message dated 2/27/02 7:53:57 AM Central Standard Time, ttalsma@macatawa.org writes: Wait until she hands it to you and there is no cart to stick it in. So you stand there and hold it for what seems like forever until she returns and relieves you of it! Personally I try to escape and head for the fishing stuff or bicycle stuff or camping stuff or damn near ANYTHING other than where whe is! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 27 18:53:54 2002 g1S0rr800570 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:53:53 -0600 Subject: Forms/Cup head allen bolts Hello All, The new metal forms are complete, finally, and have had a butt section =and two tip strips planed on them. The cup head allen screws align the =forms and get out of the way at the same time. I highly recommend there =use for anyone making new forms. I have to thank Tony Spezio for this =tip. I don't know if just hearing it would have inspired me to try this =but I saw Tony's forms and examples of the rods he was planing with =them. I knew that the process would work, didn't know if I could get it = I highly recommend this type of setup! No more busted knuckles and the =forms set up easily! Thanks again to Tony Spezio, my hat is off to you! Hello All, The new metal forms are complete, = had a butt section and two tip strips planed on them. The cup head allen = align the forms and get out of the way at the same time. I highly = there use for anyone making new forms. I have to thank Tony Spezio for = I don't know if just hearing it would have inspired me to try this but I = Tony's forms and examples of the rods he was planing with them. I knew = process would work, didn't know if I could get it to work. I highly recommend this type of setup!= busted knuckles and the forms set up easily! Thanks again to Tony = is off to you! from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Feb 27 19:14:40 2002 g1S1Ed801534 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:14:39 -0600 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:14:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Weather? In a message dated 2/27/02 1:53:27 PM Central Standard Time,bob@mcelvain.org writes: bob, with all due respect. I think I hate you! ;-D (kidding of course!) mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from homes-sold@attbi.com Wed Feb 27 19:20:33 2002 g1S1KW801876 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:20:32 - ;Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:20:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Weather? Tony,Yesterday it was sunny in Seattle but no one knew it until the 6 o'clocknews.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Weather? Sunday it was 72 here in Arkansas, Yesterday it never made it to 20*.We had some snow showers.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing was very pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm all year with cold troutstreams? Pete from wkifer@harborside.com Wed Feb 27 19:54:20 2002 g1S1sK803391 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:54:20 - Subject: Test --=======6C70144A======= ascii; format=flowed Thanks all. Got bumped, had to re subscribe. --=======6C70144A=======-- from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Wed Feb 27 20:14:44 2002 g1S2Eg804565 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:14:43 -0600 Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:13:27 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:13:26 +0800 Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com,"'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: Braiding machine Cheeky b*stard : ) The silkworm project ended in tears but I'm stillmucking around with the silk line project. Tapers are created by swappingthreads to ones of different thicknesses at predetermined points along theline.Mike Mike Roberts, do you have all those silk worms fat and ready yet??? [:-)] from harms1@pa.net Wed Feb 27 20:47:57 2002 g1S2lt805523 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:47:55 - for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:43:15 - Subject: Grand Experiment I just finished reading John Long's "Final Report" on the rods of the GrandExperiment ("The Planing Form," #73, 2002), and I am wondering if any ofyou can help me to "read" the data that John provided. My understanding was that all twenty-two rods were to have been built to thesame Bill Waara taper design (well, except for "equivalent versions" in thefour and five-strip rods), while varying only the many options inconstruction technique. Of course, it was impossible to expect that thecane itself could be identical from one rod to the next, so that was justsomething that had to be "written- off" among the variables. John explained that, in addition to testing each rod for Vibrations-Per-Minute, Weight, and Static-Tip-Deflection, he also measured each of therods for overall length and for the average-diameter-across-flats at threecontrol points (25", 50", and 75"). As I look at the resulting data, however, it seems to me that the rods varyso dramatically both in overall length and in their diameters at those threecontrol points that it becomes almost impossible even to guess what effectthe differing constuction methods may have had upon the rods'performance--vibration rate, tip deflection, or, indeed, even weight.(Lengths vary from Waara's rod at 88 1/2" to 91" although most rods fellsomewhere in the 90" range.) I notice, for instance, that Jorge Carcao built four different five-striprods-- altering his construction methods between noded, nodeless,hollow-built and solid. An excellent set of building-parameters to test.But as I look at the diameters of each of these four rods at the threecontrol points, I read at the 25" station that one rod has a diameter of.282" while another reads as low as.275". At the 50" station a differentrod has a high of .223" and yet another has a low of .212". And at the 75"station we find other rods with a high of .140" and a low of .130". Itstrikes me that those are fairly substantial differeces, and especially asthe differences (relative highs and lows) are not consistent within the samerods The rod with the thickest diameter at the 25" station also has the thinestdiameter at the 50" station. And exactly the reverse is the case withanother rod in this set of four--the rod with the thinnest diameter at the25" station also has the thickest diameter at the 50" station, and again thethickest at the 75" station. I do not doubt at all that each of these rods is beautifully constucted, northat each fishes well. Neither would I wish to isolate this set of rods from the general pattern of taper inconsistency among the twenty-two thatwere built--the several six-strip, two-piece rods, for instance, would serveas an equally apt example. I can only suppose that each rod was planed (ormilled) according to Waara's taper, but when the rods were cut to length andferruled something went a little haywire across the experiment. My only point is that when such a critically important matter as taper isnot held constant across the sample, one has no idea what to make of thoseother variables that were meant to be the subject of the experiment. Iwould like to have been present to cast the set of twenty-two rods--just tofeel the differences and to appreciate, subjectively, the variety. But evenso, I think I would still have no idea which factors may have beenresponsible for those differences--variations in tapers or in constructionmethods. Or, again, maybe I'm just being overly cranky in all this because I hadhoped to learn something more-or-less definitive. I certainly do not wishto be ungrateful for the efforts of so many voluntary participants; I thinkI am probably just disappointed that a problem arose in the experiment thathadn't been anticipated. Cheers, Bill from rextutor@yahoo.com Wed Feb 27 20:48:07 2002 g1S2m7805536 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:48:07 - 27 Feb 2002 18:48:06 PST Subject: Re: Delamination city Just to make sure - delamination is the separation ofthe strips, right ? - I have seen this with restoringold rods. I look for it by rolling the sectionsbetween fingers. My experience has been it is gluefailure beecause of age. I listen to guys arguing gluebut I use a simple glue, tightbond II. Easy to findand easy to use It's waterproof and you got goodhandling time . Try changing your glue process or theglue itself, would be my first thought. Let us know how it goes. --- Gerald Buckley wrote: I've talked about this Four Brothers rod a couple oftimes and am nowresolved to make it my "first rod". As it (and mybudget and schedule) canwithstand any mistakes I might make on it as opposedto bunging up a freshbatch of strips. Here's my one big hangup: It has delaminated BADLY in many spots Some are to the point all six strips have been freed from one another for afoot or two down the butt and mid sections. 2 Tipsseem to be in need ofnormal degree of restoration (stripping, wraps,guides, new coat,straightening, etc). In an extreme situation like this what is the propercure? Neither Sinclairnor Kirkfield address this particular situation andI wonder if it's becausethey would just as soon use it as kindling as pursuethe headache. I suppose I'm hoping someone will say - delaminatethe rest of each section delaminated areas with (such andsuch) and glop your adhesive in the delaminatedareas, pass through thebinder and proceed as normal... Sure could use the input of the list members. Gerald __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 20:59:05 2002 g1S2wx806202 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:59:04 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Now Leg vise Anybody interested in a concept of a leg vise can see it now on my page.You can get there by either going to my main site at:http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html OR go straight to it at:http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/hints.html Tony At 01:27 PM 2/27/02 -0500, Mark Wendt wrote: Tony, Now there's an interesting idea. I think I remember seeing one of these vises on an old cabinet makers workbench when I was growing up. I hadn't thought of a nice simple design such as this, because I hadn't seen one of them in a long time. Know any place on the web I can pick up a set of plans? Thanks,Mark At 02:24 AM 2/28/2002 +0800, you wrote: They're a lot of trouble to make but don't write off a European style bench with a tail vise or failing that if it looks too hard to bother with a leg vise. Because these don't have the rods passing through them required in regular vises it's so easy to hold work because there are no obstructions. Leg vises are also easy to add to an existing work bench and a good one may become the "main" vise you use.The first bench I made had a leg vise as the only vise and a bench stop The leg vise was simply the thickest threaded rod I could lay my hands on and a plumber's galv "T" section that I put on the rod and secured with a hole drilled through it and the rod with a length of coat hanger stuck through the hole to secure it and a length of broom stick handle passed through the part that the handle obviously would have to pass through for it to be the vise handle.You make the leg section with a piece of 4 x 2 with a hole drilled about 1 foot from the top to accept the rod that passes through it.The rod is attached to the bench very firmly with a nut epoxied to the bench and or encapsulated within the bench. So what we have is the rod secured to the bench firmly, the rod passes through a hole in the 4 x 2 then on to the handle. Turn the handle and the rod moves in and out allowing the 4 x 2 to loosen or tighten against the bench. The bottom of the leg is held with an adjustable width adjuster thingy made from 2 pieces of ply wood with some holes drilled in a line which are set to the bench and wide enough to allow the leg to fit between. A bolt goes through these holes and a hole in the 4 x 2 to accept the bolt.The reason for the series of holes at the bottom is as you adjust the width of the "jaw" of the leg vise it'll widen. By adjusting the width on the bottom of the leg the jaws keep parrellel. Costs about $8 to make and about 1 hr to do and like I wrote, it workswell. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Feb 27 21:19:03 2002 g1S3J1806799 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:19:01 -0600 g1S3Iqg04220; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:18:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Forms/Cup head allen bolts Funny you should bring this up. I just sent someshots to several list members this evening showingthe screws and how they are installed along withthe tapping rig I use.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Steven trauthwein wrote: Hello All, The new metal forms are complete,finally, and have had a butt section and two tipstrips planed on them. The cup head allen screwsalign the forms and get out of the way at thesame time. I highly recommend there use foranyone making new forms. I have to thank TonySpezio for this tip. I don't know if justhearing it would have inspired me to try thisbut I saw Tony's forms and examples of the rodshe was planing with them. I knew that the process would work, didn't know if I could getit to work. I highly recommend this type ofsetup! No more busted knuckles and the forms setup easily! Thanks again to Tony Spezio, my hatis off to you! from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Feb 27 21:24:40 2002 g1S3OY807057 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:24:38 - Subject: Re: Weather? That's the place. Did you see any of the life forms you mentioned move very fast or at all?Were you there for the mining or do you just like living in a blast furnace ? [:-)] The GBR says the hottest temp ever recorded was in the Sahara but it's wrong, it's Marble Bar at 57.8c or 136f.Perth is way South of there and it's too hot here at times where the hottest it's ever been is 47.8c (118f) but not above 40- 45c(104- 113f) all that often, I can not imagine how people live in the hotter places North of here though with the high heat and low humidity it's make a great climate more habitable places though. Tony At 06:54 PM 2/27/02 -0500, Oscar Segal wrote: Marble Bar and Southern Cross (West Aussie) the two hottest places in the world. I have been there several times. All you can see are roos, goanas, lizards, snakes, sheep, and aborigines. OAS Tony Young 02/27/02 08:26PM >>> There's a place out here called Marble Bar, never falls below about 70f. Ofcourse it may just make 125f too but you have to take the terrible with theincompressibly awful in these places if you don't want cold weather ever [:-)] The only trout there are in people's minds of course. TY At 03:09 PM 2/27/02 -0500, John Kenealy wrote: Maine doesn't! ;o( John K----- Original Message -----From: "Chris Wohlford" chris_wohlford@yahoo.com > ; "Rod Makers" rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu >Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:49 PMSubject: Re: Weather? California comes pretty close [:)] Chris --- Peter Van Schaack pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing wasvery pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm allyear with cold troutstreams? Pete __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:" http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html >" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Wed Feb 27 21:28:41 2002 g1S3Se807343 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:28:40 - Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Peter, I also thought they were the same thing until I read the discussions and =went through the instructions on the site from Claude Freaner (original = As some of the replies have pointed out, the braided leaders are hollow, =pick up water, and send a spray out on the cast. According to the =messages, the furled leaders don't do that, are flexible, trun over = I'm going to pick up a 1x4x12' this weekend and hang it in the garage to =give it a try. Follow through Claude's instructions and you will =understand that they are not braided, but are two twisted bundles of =strands, twisted around each other - not a very good explanation, but I = KurtNixa, MO-----Original Message-----From: Claude Freaner Subject: Re: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Definitely! And you'll soon find out that you keep maybe 1 leader =out of 20 that you make...the rest you give away or "loan" someone - =since the jig can be made from scrap wood, and the thread costs about =$.50 per leader, it's one of the few flyfishing items I've found that is =truly easier to make yourself...heck, the cost of the two stamps to mail =a leader is more expensive! Claude At 9:31 PM -0500 , 2/26/02, Brian D. Creek wrote about Re: Check out =these sites on furled leaders!!Thanks to all who responded. Great. Another thing I 'need!';^) Brian ----- Original Message -----From: BrooksideNC@aol.com Subject: Check out these sites on furled leaders!! Check out these sites for help and info on furled leaders. I =love them. Furled Leader Jig Tight Lines, Richard FederationGuide/Fly Fishing Instructer/Costom Tier Re: Check out these sites on furled =leaders!! Peter, I also thought they were the same thing until I read = discussions and went through the instructions on the site from Claude = As some of the replies have pointed out, the braided= the messages, the furled leaders don't do that, are flexible, trun over = I'm going to pick up a 1x4x12' this weekend and hang= you will understand that they are not braided, but are two twisted = strands, twisted around each other - not a very good explanation, but I = KurtNixa, MO -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:53 PMSubject: Re:Check = these sites on furled leaders!! out of 20 that you make...the rest you give away or "loan" = - since the jig can be made from scrap wood, and the thread costs = per leader, it's one of the few flyfishing items I've found that is = easier to make yourself...heck, the cost of the two stamps to mail a = is more expensive! Claude At 9:31 PM -0500 , 2/26/02, Brian D. Creek wrote about Re: = these sites on furled leaders!! 'need!';^) Brian ----- Original Message -----From: BrooksideNC@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:21 =PM leaders!! Check out these sites for help and info on furled = Leader JigTight Lines,Richard =FederationGuide/Fly Fishing Instructer/Costom =TierBrookside from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 27 22:01:38 2002 g1S41b808422 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:01:37 - Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Bill - Keep in mind that when you measure a finished 5 strip rod, you are measuring from a flat to a point, after the blank has been sanded and varnished. Since the point has been rounded to one extent or another, andthe varnish thickness on the point questionable, the resultant measurement is highly variable. I would trust Jorge to have made a fairly consistent group of rods.I have not read the study yet, and don't want to comment further until I do. from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Feb 27 22:12:18 2002 g1S4CG808868 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:12:17 - g1S4CEE22659 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:12:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Information and my concerns Tony Spezio wrote: David,I use a 1/2" point to point. I would think 9/16 is too small for most of us.5/8is too big. The Grizzley Bit I use is called a 5/8" bit but it is 1/2" point to point. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com David Rinker wrote: I have received orders for around 60 router bits so far. MLCS sent adrawing of the finished bit to me today I included it as an attachmentbelow. Before I go any further on this, would you take a moment anddecideit this is what you had in mind. I received a message from a list memberconcerning this companies router bits and his concerns that they wouldnotwork. I'm not sure if the bit will solve the problems Robert mentions. David, I'm interested in one and will definitely take one if you can be sure theyare the correct size. I ordered one from MLCS several years ago in the5/8"size and was disappointed. What they call a 5/8 inch diameter curveshouldleave a bead that has a radius of 5/16", but instead leaves a bead that is5/8 inch high. The bead that this bit leaves has a larger radius than thethe outside of a reel seat rather than the radius of the recessed slot inareel seat. I believe that that you want is a bit that has a radius of 5/8and leaves a bead that is on the order of 1/2" high. I have never usedthebit I have because it simply won't work. If you place this order be surethat the bits are the correct size. -- Robert Kope Please study the drawings carefully to see if you think there will be anyproblems for you. I have suggested a change in the bit noted as arevision.Please send your feed back since I don't want an 60+ unusable bits. I willprobably formulate an order for these sometime next week to give anyinterested rodmakers a little more time. Just a reminder thatproductiontime on these will be approximately 2 months from order to delivery. Iplanon placing the 50% down payment for the order (my wife is looking at menervously). I think it will be easier that way. Upon receipt of the bits Iwill separate the items package and ship USPS to you. I will either includea bill with the shipment or more likely E-mail it to you. The bill will be$13 + PA Tax 6% + packaging ? + mailing. Somewhere close to $15 or$16 Iwould imagine. After you think this over please forward your final orderalong with an address for me to use in shipping. I've had some requestsfora three wing cutter with a 60 degree notch for rough milling I use astacked milling cutter for my rough miller but if anyone can come up withadesign that would work Id be glad to pass it on to MLCS for considerationand pricing. Let me know. My address isDavid Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940(215) 968-8561Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker --------------------------------------------------Name: MLCS Router Bit Design.jpgMLCS Router Bit Design.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 Name: My Router Bit Revision.jpgMy Router Bit Revision.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 from bob@downandacross.com Wed Feb 27 22:14:28 2002 g1S4ER809058 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:14:27 - 27 Feb 2002 23:14:21 -0500 Subject: RE: Grand Experiment Bill:This would have been a good experiment to undertale in conjunction with agood mill or the Hand Mill. One template or HM set up, and then simplychange cutters for the 4,5, and 6 sided rods. Hollowing and such could takeplace afterwards.I applaud John for his excellent idea. Your point is well taken for sure,and I look forward to reading the piece. I agree that no matter what theresults, I bet they were great rods. I know the few I was able to cast surewere. I especially liked John's quadrate verson. What a sweet rod! And amaker of John's caliber seeking me out to try it was an uplifting experienceas well. I am still flattered by that.Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Grand Experiment I just finished reading John Long's "Final Report" on the rods of the GrandExperiment ("The Planing Form," #73, 2002), and I am wondering if any ofyou can help me to "read" the data that John provided. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Feb 28 00:25:24 2002 g1S6PN814227 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:25:23 - g1S6PHl192246 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:25:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Weather? Organization: Prodigy Internet Don't tell anyone, but this morning, here in NM, it was 19 deg. and thetrout streams are too cold to fish.Steve New Mexico, but don't tell anyone. I want to retire there, and I don't want the property values skyrocketing more than they already have..... : ) Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing was very pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm all year with cold troutstreams? Pete from saweiss@flash.net Thu Feb 28 00:43:45 2002 g1S6hi814811 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:43:44 - g1S6hgl146444 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:43:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Organization: Prodigy Internet Bill,Sounds like the experiment, like some others I have seen, demonstratesmoreabout the participants than about the products.Steve I just finished reading John Long's "Final Report" on the rods of the Grand Experiment ("The Planing Form," #73, 2002), and I am wondering if any ofyou can help me to "read" the data that John provided. from bennetts@cybermesa.com Thu Feb 28 02:42:52 2002 g1S8gp816625 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 02:42:51 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Mark, I built a 13' long bench against the wall and use a woodworking vise thatcan be easily moved by loosening the screw which clamps it to the bench.Being new to rodbuilding, I have moved the vise all over to try it but itseems to work well when located to my right at about 4' from the right handend of the bench. I really like being able to move it around. Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: New Workbench, and wood vise Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I builtbased on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet designRay. Anywho, the darned thing is huge. 12' long, by 34 1/2" wide, by 36"high. Well, thanks to a miscalculation on my part, ( I forgot to take into consideration the shelving I have on one wall of my workshop when I drew up the floor plan) I can't use the bench as an island bench like I'doriginally planned. So, I had to mount the bench to the wall, with theback side of the bench on the outside wall of my shop, and the right end of the bench up against one of the inside walls of my shop. I have about 8' from the left end of my bench to the garage door. Now, thedilemma... Where to mount the wood vise, so it'll be in the optimumposition, yet out of the way when I'm doing something that doesn't use thevise. If you had to mount a vise on a bench set up this way, would youmount it on the left end of the bench, or somewhere's in the middle of thebench? Mark from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Feb 28 05:21:59 2002 g1SBLw818216 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:21:58 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4187. .Clear:0. Processed in 1.405154 secs); 28 Feb 2002 11:21:57 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Delamination city Gerald, Delaminate that which delaminates easy. If it all delaminates reglue and run through the binder. If it is delaminated only in spots , pin these spots open and glue using strips of paper to force the glue in the tight spots. These you can bind by hand if you like or run through the binder. Marty Gerald Buckley wrote: I've talked about this Four Brothers rod a couple of times and am nowresolved to make it my "first rod". As it (and my budget and schedule) canwithstand any mistakes I might make on it as opposed to bunging up a freshbatch of strips. Here's my one big hangup: It has delaminated BADLY in many spots Some are to the point all six strips have been freed from one another for afoot or two down the butt and mid sections. 2 Tips seem to be in need ofnormal degree of restoration (stripping, wraps, guides, new coat,straightening, etc). In an extreme situation like this what is the proper cure? Neither Sinclairnor Kirkfield address this particular situation and I wonder if it's becausethey would just as soon use it as kindling as pursue the headache. I suppose I'm hoping someone will say - delaminate the rest of each section andsuch) and glop your adhesive in the delaminated areas, pass through thebinder and proceed as normal... Sure could use the input of the list members. Gerald from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Feb 28 06:57:17 2002 g1SCvG819228 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 06:57:16 - g1SCvCdd006134 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:57:12 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise John, Thanks for the info. My shop is pretty much the same size as your's. The only difference is the shelves, which hold the accumulation of 30 years of model aircraft tools, parts, covering, yada, yada, yada.... ;^} I may mount the vise in more than one location just to try and find out what would be the most optimal for the way my shop is set up. Mark At 05:42 PM 2/27/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark;I'm right handed and I mounted my 7" woodworking vise a foot or so tothe right of center. My shop is 12'x16' with the door in the center of12' wall, the workbench is 2 2x12's that wrap the rest of the walls, theviseis on the side I use for maost of my cane work, the other 2 sideshold the lathe and the beveller. I put the vise where I did becausethat's what I press nodes with and I wanted it handy to the mainworkstation and with enough room on either side for the rest of the canestrip when pressing nodes close to the ends. Don't bemoan not having abig shop, make it as big as you need and not much more, otherwise itjust gets to be a long walk from station to station, and the much moreroom for the mess to build up in. just a thoughtjohn Mark Wendt wrote: Well, I finally put the finishing touches on my work bench, which I built based on Ray Gould's drawings in his book. The bench is a sweet design from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Feb 28 07:34:05 2002 g1SDY5820027 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:34:05 - g1SDXqdd006892; Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Scott, What wood vise did you get that clamps to the workbench? The only ones I've seen around here have holes drilled/cast into the base where I'd have to lag bolt or screw it into the bottom of my workbench top. I sure do love that lonnnnnng workbench though. Started tuning my forms last night, and it sure was nice to have work bench top space to lay out my tools and such. Thanks,Mark At 01:42 AM 2/28/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, I built a 13' long bench against the wall and use a woodworking vise thatcan be easily moved by loosening the screw which clamps it to the bench.Being new to rodbuilding, I have moved the vise all over to try it but itseems to work well when located to my right at about 4' from the righthandend of the bench. I really like being able to move it around. Scott from harms1@pa.net Thu Feb 28 07:41:29 2002 g1SDfS820334 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:41:28 - Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Steve, Well, the apparent results don't really seem to reflect upon theparticipants, in my view. That is, I would imagine that the buildersthemselves probably took greater pains in building these rods than theymight have under other circumstances. I mean, they all knew that "the wholeworld is watching." I am certain that both the makers and their rods are altogethercommendable,and I did not mean to be critical of either. No doubt, each maker, isolatedin his own shop, thought he was carrying out the control parametersproperly. And had I been one of the participants, I do not believe I couldhave done better. My reflections were meant only to question somethingthatseems to have "happened" in the course of controlling the experiment--suchthat the desired control may have been lost. Also, in complete fairness to Jorge Carcao (whose four rods I used as anexample) I should say that, as Tom Smithwick rightly points out, it is verydifficult to "mike" a five-strip rod with accuracy. Probably, one shouldconsider, instead, the several two-piece, six-strip rods as a group. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Bill,Sounds like the experiment, like some others I have seen, demonstrates more about the participants than about the products.Steve I just finished reading John Long's "Final Report" on the rods of the Grand Experiment ("The Planing Form," #73, 2002), and I am wondering if any of you can help me to "read" the data that John provided. from GBuckley@aapg.org Thu Feb 28 07:57:45 2002 g1SDvj821018 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:57:45 - 28 Feb 02 08:02:33 -0600 -0600 28 Feb 02 08:01:10 -0600User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Delamination city Sorry all, I should have been more specific... The Four Brothers rod is an older rod made for/by Pflueger - meaning Ididn't make the rod. (But, if I had it would probably have delaminated onthe first lawn test.) Not sure what adhesive was used at the time of itsmaking... Whatever it is it didn't stand the environment this rodencountered too well. I've been able to walk the delam to the extreme ends of the affectedsections without much effort. I feel pretty sure if the remaining componentswere taken off the rod that I would have six strips from each section on mytable with little additional effort. Some have suggested hide glue was used... maybe so. I haven't tried applyinghot water yet. I'd like to think that WAS the adhesive as cleanup will bemuch easier. Thanks all! Gerald From: Danny Twang Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:31:08 +1300 Subject: Re: Delamination city Hi Gerald, You're not telling us what kind of glue You've been using....if this happendto me, I would try to delaminate the hole rod, clean and glue up agian. Ican't tell You what methode to use, don't knowing what kind of adhesiveyouused.......I would also be very interesting in knowing what made the rod delaminate...on the first two rods I made, I had sort of the same problem, only not thatsever. My problem was the working time for the glue I used, and the time Ispent on gluing up my section.... danny from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Feb 28 08:08:01 2002 g1SE80821433 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:08:00 - g1SE7xE26426 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:07:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Information and my concerns I was just informed that 9/16 is larger than 1/2.I guess he is right so here was my reply. Sorry about that, my head was where the sun don't shine.To late at night forthis oldman to think straight.I just went to the shop and measured the bit I use and it is 9/16 from pointto point. The Grizzly Fingernail Bit on page 316 # C1215 in the Grizzly Catalog shows1/2"point to point. That is what I based the 1/2" measurement on. In measuringmy GrizzlyC1215 bit, I find it is 9/16 and not 1/2". As Bob said, big thing is the radius.Theradius on that bit suits me fine.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: David,I use a 1/2" point to point. I would think 9/16 is too small for most of us.5/8is too big. The Grizzley Bit I use is called a 5/8" bit but it is 1/2" point to point. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com David Rinker wrote: I have received orders for around 60 router bits so far. MLCS sent adrawing of the finished bit to me today I included it as an attachmentbelow. Before I go any further on this, would you take a moment anddecideit this is what you had in mind. I received a message from a listmemberconcerning this companies router bits and his concerns that they wouldnotwork. I'm not sure if the bit will solve the problems Robert mentions. David, I'm interested in one and will definitely take one if you can be sure theyare the correct size. I ordered one from MLCS several years ago in the5/8"size and was disappointed. What they call a 5/8 inch diameter curveshouldleave a bead that has a radius of 5/16", but instead leaves a bead thatis5/8 inch high. The bead that this bit leaves has a larger radius thanthethe outside of a reel seat rather than the radius of the recessed slotin areel seat. I believe that that you want is a bit that has a radius of 5/8and leaves a bead that is on the order of 1/2" high. I have never usedthebit I have because it simply won't work. If you place this order be surethat the bits are the correct size. -- Robert Kope Please study the drawings carefully to see if you think there will be anyproblems for you. I have suggested a change in the bit noted as arevision.Please send your feed back since I don't want an 60+ unusable bits. Iwillprobably formulate an order for these sometime next week to give anyinterested rodmakers a little more time. Just a reminder thatproductiontime on these will be approximately 2 months from order to delivery. Iplanon placing the 50% down payment for the order (my wife is looking atmenervously). I think it will be easier that way. Upon receipt of the bits Iwill separate the items package and ship USPS to you. I will eitherincludea bill with the shipment or more likely E-mail it to you. The bill will be$13 + PA Tax 6% + packaging ? + mailing. Somewhere close to $15 or$16 Iwould imagine. After you think this over please forward your finalorderalong with an address for me to use in shipping. I've had some requestsfora three wing cutter with a 60 degree notch for rough milling I use astacked milling cutter for my rough miller but if anyone can come upwith adesign that would work Id be glad to pass it on to MLCS forconsiderationand pricing. Let me know. My address isDavid Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940(215) 968-8561Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker --------------------------------------------------Name: MLCS Router Bit Design.jpgMLCS Router Bit Design.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 Name: My Router Bit Revision.jpgMy Router Bit Revision.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Feb 28 08:09:42 2002 g1SE9g821631 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:09:42 - g1SE9edd007628 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:09:40 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Mark, I used to manufacture 1/12 scale warbird combat kits. I still have 5 large boxes of pretty good grade balsa in sizes ranging from 1/16" up to 1/4" thick, and a whole box full of 4" x 4" x 48" balsa blocks, that I cut down for wingtips and cowls. Also have 1/4" x 3/8" x 48" strips of spruce for servo rails, 1/8" x 4' x 8' sheets of lite ply that I cut and shaped for bulkhead formers and wing mounts..... The list goes on. I have enough Ecuadorian Gold to last me the rest of my modeling life...... Along with the manufacturing tools and jigs I used in the business. That's the reason I have the 18" industrial band saw. I was wasting too much balsa even using the thinnest table saw blade I could get, so I bought the mongo band saw, with the reeeaaaallllly thin blade (those specialty blades are damned expensive when you have to buy them in 134" lengths....). I also have a brute of a power feed to, that I used to feed the balsa into the band saw. Sure made the operation much quicker and more accurate too. Got a pretty nice router table, that I used in conjunction with the jigs, to form the bulkheads and wing hold downs. Foam wing cutter, designed for production environments, a vacuum former for making canopies, cowls and wheel pants, and a vacuum bagging machine for some custom foam wingwork I used to do, for epoxying the balsa skins to the foam wing cores. I was a pretty busy guy for a few years. Got burned out though, I did all this onthe side, after working 60 - 70 hours a week at my day job. But, sure did pay for a bunch of neat toys, and all my modelling stuff whilst I was doing it. Lemme tell ya, the clean up was a b*tch... from now on, even if it's late when I get out of the shop, I WILL clean up before I go in. I really don't want to go through the hassle of cleaning the shop like I had to again.... Mark At 08:18 AM 2/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 2/28/02 6:57:47 AM Central Standard Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: 30 years of model aircraft tools, parts, covering, yada, yada,yada.... ;^} >> Sounds like my shop. At the moment we are in the proocess of "cleaning"which I have been threatening to do for years and years. I suppose that Ireally DO need to clear out all the crap don't I? Just how many tons ofBalsa do you really need? And I have, or at least had, years of MAN andRCMand other mags laying on shelves all over the place and in boxes and ....wellyou get the idea. I have to be ruthless, or possibly I will be Cindy- less!Besides,having a path to walk down would be handy wouldn't it? mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Feb 28 08:15:56 2002 g1SEFt822069 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:15:55 - g1SEFsdd007754 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:15:54 - Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Richard, the new setup, along with getting used to making rods, since I'm juststarting out, so that is a valid idea.Thanks,Mark At 09:02 AM 2/28/2002 -0500, you wrote:Mark: for each mounted on a short piece of 1 x 8 board, and when needed, clamped to could use such as an interim so that you can determine, by use, the best Best regards, Richard Tyree from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Thu Feb 28 08:27:06 2002 g1SER6822815 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:27:06 - Subject: Re: Grand Experiment List, As a participant in the Grand Experiment, I had the opportunity to castmost of the rods at the Gathering in 2000. It was a truly interestingopportunity to get the chance to be involved in something like this. Theopportunity to cast that many rods proved very interesting also. The factthat there were no identical reels on every rod also affected feel. Somerod actions I liked and others I didn't. My favorites tended to be thosethat went from 2 piece to 3 piece designs. The extra ferrule seemed toslow down the action when compared to the 2 pc rod that I made. But againmine and Ron Barch's rods felt different and the construction methods were were all wonderful rods and the contributors should be commended forparticipating in this endeavor. John Long should be commended forundertaking such an experiment. The fact that there were no hard and fast conclusions underlies the factthat all of us differ in what it is that we enjoy in a rod. I rememberhaving this discussion with another builder as we cast the same rods side rod. The reality is that there was no way to measure casters opinions ofthe rods and I think that this is the ultimate problem. The differences in measurements of rods at various stations is a realityand if you look at some of the truly great rods out there they vary also. The only way to truly have seen the differences was to have cast the rodsand I think that this would have provided the information that many appearto have been craving. Obviously this was impossible. I would like achance to cast the rods again, this time knowing what was different abouteach one. Thanks to all the participants, suppliers and John Long. Job well done. Mark Babiy from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Thu Feb 28 08:38:23 2002 g1SEcM823643 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:38:22 - GAA07037; GAA12202; g1SEcb107667; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 06:38:17 -0800 Rod Makers Subject: RE: Weather? I once saw the sun here in Seattle and it scared me so much I didn't comeout for months, it dries out your sinuses and you can't breath. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Weather? Tony,Yesterday it was sunny in Seattle but no one knew it until the 6 o'clocknews.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Weather? Sunday it was 72 here in Arkansas, Yesterday it never made it to 20*.We had some snow showers.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Peter Van Schaack wrote: Yesterday it was 65* here in CT, and the fishing was very pleasurable,today it's snowing like crazy! Where is it warm all year with cold troutstreams? Pete from beadman@mac.com Thu Feb 28 08:51:59 2002 g1SEpw824425 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:51:58 - for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:51:51 - Subject: Re: Grand Experiment At 9:37 AM -0500 on 2/28/02, Mark Babiy wrote about Re: GrandExperiment The differences in measurements of rods at various stations is a realityand if you look at some of the truly great rods out there they vary also. Have any of you "professional" rod builders (those who do this attempting to make a significant part of your income from it), or prolific amateurs , ever actually taken some detailed measurements of rods that you've attempted to make with the same taper just to check and see how close your final glued-up measurements are to what you planned? Are rod makers today actually holding tolerances much closer and more consistent than in the past? If you find differences in the dimensions after final glue up, what do you do: sand it down, scrape it, or...? Claude from dryfly@erols.com Thu Feb 28 08:58:08 2002 g1SEw7824905 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:58:07 - ([208.58.202.190] helo=erols.com) id 16gS0U-0007YP-00; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:58:06 -0500 Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Try Garrett Wade, that's where I got mine. Mark Wendt wrote: Scott, What wood vise did you get that clamps to the workbench? The onlyones I've seen around here have holes drilled/cast into the base where I'dhave to lag bolt or screw it into the bottom of my workbench top. I suredo love that lonnnnnng workbench though. Started tuning my forms lastnight, and it sure was nice to have work bench top space to lay out mytools and such. Thanks,Mark At 01:42 AM 2/28/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, I built a 13' long bench against the wall and use a woodworking vise thatcan be easily moved by loosening the screw which clamps it to the bench.Being new to rodbuilding, I have moved the vise all over to try it but itseems to work well when located to my right at about 4' from the righthandend of the bench. I really like being able to move it around. Scott from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Feb 28 10:13:16 2002 g1SGDF828834 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:13:15 - Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:13:10 -0800 Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:13:09 GMT Subject: Re: Grand Experiment FILETIME=[D0AC44C0:01C1C072] Claude: accurate as possible. After gluing up a blank I measure the rod at each 5 inchstation.. If the rod doesn't come out as I'd wanted it to, I make note's of itand adjust my planing form accordingly so the next rod comes out right on to get my tips to within .001 and the butt sections to within .004 from flat my own satisfaction and improvement. If I make a rod and about hand planing is to be able to repeat ones self time and again. It's theimproper use of the plane that makes the biggest variation in hand planedrods followed by poor node preperation which will also cause poormeasurements in hand planing. The solution to making accurate hand planedrods is to correct the problem before the blank is glued up, not afterwards. mills, neither of which I have experience Jim Experiment Grand stations is a there they vary this it), or just to are to what tolerances much down, Send and receive Hotmail on yourmobile device: ClickHere from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Feb 28 10:29:45 2002 g1SGTi800024 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:29:45 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2114.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA19916; ETAtAhQOOHoBWo/CMH0tP6/RCth1Zsfj9AIVAJ6ZjrmXFz88CzZtZWDyr+EyROSn Jcooper@interalpha.co.ukSubject: Rope Knurls Thanks to all for the help on the Gessweiin rope knurl. Milled a 1/8"slot in a piece of 3/8" keystock to support the tool shank all the wayout to the end of the wheel. Thanks to Bill Heidt for the suggestion tocrank the head through by hand so there was no overstrike of thepattern. Does everything I had hoped for. Jerry Young from rmoon@ida.net Thu Feb 28 10:48:56 2002 g1SGmt801319 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:48:55 - Subject: Re: Grand Experiment --------------AC19ED66C8C929E468D55D6C Bravo Jim Some words of wisdom for all of us ponder, ThanksRalph Jim Bureau wrote: Claude: I plane my rods by hand and will tell you how I get my rods asaccurate as possible. After gluing up a blank I measure the rod ateach 5 inch station.. If the rod doesn't come out as I'd wanted it to,I make note's of it and adjust my planing form accordingly so the nextrod comes out right on the money. As to the flat to flat measurement,I'm usaully able to get my tips to within .001 and the butt sectionsto within .004 from flat to flat. Butt sections are more difficult tohand plane accurately being as if the 60 degree angle is off it willmake a more noticeable difference in the final demension from flat toflat. If I build a rod and it's not to demensions I chalk it up toexperience and after building several rods I've pretty much eliminatedthis problem of having to adjust my planing form. I build mostlyflamed rods and I wouldn't scrape a flamed rod to change thedemensions as it would! take the color out of the rod. It would alsoeliminate valuable power fibers. I measure every rod I make and I'malways checking myself for my own satisfaction and improvement. If Imake a rod and it's measurements are perfect from flat to flat, ittells me that my angle's are also perfect and my node work wasexcellent, at least for that rod. The most difficult thing about handplaning is to be able to repeat ones self time and again. It's theimproper use of the plane that makes the biggest variation in handplaned rods followed by poor node preperation which will also causepoor measurements in hand planing. The solution to making accuratehand planed rods is to correct the problem before the blank is gluedup, not afterwards. Hopefully others will respond to the use of the handmill and tapermills, neither of which I have experience with. Jim>From:Claude Freaner Subject: Re: Grand ExperimentDate: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:51:25 -0500 At 9:37 AM -0500 on 2/28/02, Mark Babiy wrote about Re: GrandExperiment The differences in measurements of rods at various stations is arealityand if you look at some of the truly great rods out there they varyalso. Have any of you "professional" rod builders (those who do thisattempting to make a significant part of your income from it), orprolific amateurs , ever actually taken some detailedmeasurementsof rods that you've attempted to make with the same taper just tocheck and see how close your final glued-up measurements are to whatyou planned? Are rod makers today actually holding tolerances muchcloser and more consistent than in the past? If you finddifferencesin the dimensions after final glue up, what do you do: sand it down,scrape it, or...? Claude -----------------------------------------------------------------------Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here --------------AC19ED66C8C929E468D55D6C RalphJim Bureau wrote: Claude: accurate as possible. After gluing up a blank I measure the rod at each5 inch station.. If the rod doesn't come out as I'd wanted it to, I makenote's of it and adjust my planing form accordingly so the next rod comesout right on the money. As to the flat to flat measurement, I'm usaullyable to get my tips to within .001 and the butt sections to within .004 from flat to flat. Butt sections are more difficult to hand plane accuratelybeing as if the 60 degree angle is off it will make a more noticeabledifferencein the final demension from flat to flat. If I build a rod and it's notto demensions I chalk it up to experience and after building several rodsI've pretty much eliminated this problem of having to adjust my planingform. I build mostly flamed rods and I wouldn't scrape a flamed rod tochange the demensions as it would! take the color out of the rod. It wouldalso eliminate valuable power fibers. I measure every rod I make and I'malways checking myself for my own satisfaction and improvement. If I makea rod and it's measurements are perfect from flat to flat, it tells me at least for that rod. The most difficult thing about hand planing is tobe able to repeat ones self time and again. It's the improper use of theplane that makes the biggest variation in hand planed rods followed bypoor node preperation which will also cause poor measurements in handplaning.The solution to making accurate hand planed rods is to correct the problembefore the blank is glued up, not afterwards. taper mills, neither of which I have experience with. Subject: Re: Grand ExperimentDate: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:51:25 -0500 At 9:37 AM -0500 on 2/28/02, Mark Babiy wrote about Re: GrandExperiment The differences in measurements of rods at various stations is arealityand if you look at some of the truly great rods out there they varyalso. Have any of you "professional" rod builders (those who do thisattempting to make a significant part of your income from it), or measurementsof rods that you've attempted to make with the same taper just tocheck and see how close your final glued-up measurements are to whatyou planned? Are rod makers today actually holding tolerances muchcloser and more consistent than in the past? If you finddifferencesin the dimensions after final glue up, what do you do: sand it down,scrape it, or...? Claude Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: ClickHere --------------AC19ED66C8C929E468D55D6C-- from dati@selway.umt.edu Thu Feb 28 10:56:44 2002 g1SGuh802473 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:56:43 - for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:56:43 - Subject: devcon epoxy I recently used devcon 2 ton epoxy to glue on some ferrules. Now I thinkI am going to have to remove the male ferrule form the tip and resetit. Will heat fatigue the epoxy without hurting the tip. I wouldappreciate any advice. I have never removed a ferrule glued with thistype of glue. Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from BarbRain@aol.com Thu Feb 28 11:08:04 2002 g1SH83804181 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:08:03 - Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Would it be possible for someone to post the tapers for the Waara rod? Iknow I would like to make one as one piece. George Rainville Would it be possible for someone to post the tapers from flytyr@southshore.com Thu Feb 28 11:11:53 2002 g1SHBq804841 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:11:52 - g1SHBpE28834 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:11:51 -0600 Subject: Photo Requests Had overwhelming requests for the photos. Will getto it later today or tomorrow.Hang in there.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Feb 28 11:34:54 2002 g1SHYr808165 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:34:53 - Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:34:51 PST Subject: Re: Grand Experiment bill waara 71/2ft.5wt tip:72,92,108,124,140,158,170,184,196,210butt:210,220,230,240,250,280,306,325,325,325guides:4 8.5 14 20 27 34 42 f 51 61.5 --- BarbRain@aol.com wrote: Would it be possible for someone to post the tapers I would like to make one as one piece. GeorgeRainville ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Thu Feb 28 11:40:55 2002 g1SHes809091 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:40:54 - g1SHhuw14374; Subject: Re: devcon epoxy Heat it very slowly and carefully if it is not turned from solid rod.Otherwise the cap will fly off at high speed and smack into whatever is init's way with considerable force. Then you are forced to re- soldier the capor replace the ferrule. Just take it slow and keep trying to pull it off. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: devcon epoxy I recently used devcon 2 ton epoxy to glue on some ferrules. Now I thinkI am going to have to remove the male ferrule form the tip and resetit. Will heat fatigue the epoxy without hurting the tip. I wouldappreciate any advice. I have never removed a ferrule glued with thistype of glue. Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from atlasc1@earthlink.net Thu Feb 28 12:54:50 2002 g1SIso813722 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:54:50 - ([209.179.147.142] helo=computer) id 16gVhU-0001A5-00; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:54:45 -0800 Subject: Re: devcon epoxy Darin, This wont help now but may in the future. Epoxy is very permanent and asyouknow tough as hell. You might be pleasantly surprise if you try Pliobond orferr-L-tite. Both are super strong yet gentle when you need to remove oradjust a ferrule. Once I tried it I no longer use epoxy. In fact they bothare easier to use and have a very long track record in attaching ferrules. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: devcon epoxy I recently used devcon 2 ton epoxy to glue on some ferrules. Now I thinkI am going to have to remove the male ferrule form the tip and resetit. Will heat fatigue the epoxy without hurting the tip. I wouldappreciate any advice. I have never removed a ferrule glued with thistype of glue. Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from aport@si.rr.com Thu Feb 28 13:15:01 2002 g1SJF0814712 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:15:01 - Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:14:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Grand Experiment George,I'm not positive this is the one, but the source sounds good to me. =Don't know why it copied like this from Excel, but there you are.Art This is the rod as listed in the planing form by John Long. This = style" dry fly rod. To me it makes a better 6wt. I would also use = George, good to me. Don't know why it copied like this from Excel, but there you = are.Art Waara, Bill 2 pc 5 wt (6 wt)90" Bill Waara" = ferrule just a hair over. 0 0.072 5 0.092 10 0.108 15 0.124 20 0.140 25 0.158 30 0.170 35 0.184 40 0.196 45 0.210 Ferrule @ 45" approx; 14/64 45 0.210 50 0.220 55 0.230 60 0.240 65 0.250 70 0.280 75 0.306 80 0.325 85 0.325 90 0.325 spacing-rod assembled: tip 4" 8.5" 14" 20" 27" 61.5" from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Feb 28 13:54:26 2002 g1SJsQ816918 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:54:26 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4187. .Clear:0. Processed in 3.450028 secs); 28 Feb 2002 19:54:24 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Delamination city --------------000607020902040302010201 It is probably Hide glue but the old glue need not be removed as it pretty much disintergrated with age. Reglue with either Urac, Epon, Poly , or Titebond II extend. Marty Gerald Buckley wrote: Sorry all, I should have been more specific... The Four Brothers rod is an older rod made for/by Pflueger - meaning Ididn't make the rod. (But, if I had it would probably have delaminated onthe first lawn test.) Not sure what adhesive was used at the time of itsmaking... Whatever it is it didn't stand the environment this rodencountered too well. I've been able to walk the delam to the extreme ends of the affectedsections without much effort. I feel pretty sure if the remainingcomponentswere taken off the rod that I would have six strips from each section on mytable with little additional effort. Some have suggested hide glue was used... maybe so. I haven't triedapplyinghot water yet. I'd like to think that WAS the adhesive as cleanup will bemuch easier. Thanks all! Gerald From: Danny Twang Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:31:08 +1300 Subject: Re: Delamination city Hi Gerald, You're not telling us what kind of glue You've been using....if this happendto me, I would try to delaminate the hole rod, clean and glue up agian. Ican't tell You what methode to use, don't knowing what kind of adhesiveyouused.......I would also be very interesting in knowing what made the rod delaminate...on the first two rods I made, I had sort of the same problem, only not thatsever. My problem was the working time for the glue I used, and the time Ispent on gluing up my section.... danny --------------000607020902040302010201 It is probably Hide glue but the old glue need not be removed as it prettymuch disintergrated with age. Reglue with either Urac, Epon, Poly , orTitebondII extend. Marty Gerald Buckley wrote: Sorry all, I should have been more specific...The FourBrothers rod is an older rod made for/by Pflueger - meaning Ididn'tmake the rod. (But, if I had it would probably have delaminated onthefirst lawn test.) Not sure what adhesive was used at the time ofitsmaking... Whatever it is it didn't stand the environment thisrodencountered too well.I've been able to walk the delam to theextreme ends of the affectedsections without much effort. I feelpretty sure if the remaining componentswere taken off the rod that Iwould have six strips from each section on mytable with little additionaleffort.Some have suggested hide glue was used... maybe so. Ihaven't tried applyinghot water yet. I'd like to think that WAS theadhesive as cleanup will bemuch easier. Thanksall!Gerald Gerald,You're not telling us what kind of glue You've been using....ifthis happendto me, I would try to delaminate the hole rod, clean and glueup agian. Ican't tell You what methode to use, don't knowing what kind ofadhesive youused.......I would also be very interesting in knowingwhat made the rod delaminate...on the first two rods I made, I had sortof the same problem, only not thatsever. My problem was the workingtime for the glue I used, and the time Ispent on gluing up mysection....danny --------------000607020902040302010201-- from robertgkope@attbi.com Thu Feb 28 14:46:49 2002 g1SKkn820271 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:46:49 - Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:46:43 +0000 Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:46:43 +0000 Subject: Re: devcon epoxy I've had to remove a few ferrules that were glued with Devcon 2-ton epoxy. The last couple of times I simply heated the ferrule with a heat gun and let it cool for 10 minutes or so. It slid right off with a glass-smooth finish on the epoxy, and left no trace of epoxy inside the ferrule. I've since switched to Urethane Bond, but am considering trying Pliobond because of its availability. There was some discussion obout this topic several months ago if you want to check the archives. -- Robert Kope I recently used devcon 2 ton epoxy to glue on some ferrules. Now I thinkI am going to have to remove the male ferrule form the tip and resetit. Will heat fatigue the epoxy without hurting the tip. I wouldappreciate any advice. I have never removed a ferrule glued with thistype of glue. Thanks,Darin Law ******************************* Darin J. Law **** School of Forestry **** University of Montana **** Missoula, MT 59812 **** **** (406) 243-2472 ******************************* from wkifer@harborside.com Thu Feb 28 15:49:10 2002 g1SLn9823565 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:49:09 - Subject: Warped forms --=======41DE116E======= ascii; format=flowed Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finished my forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing with a triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowed slightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.You can see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side to side. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier. It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, and use them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it's going to bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned with planing accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternative types of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stress relieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne --=======41DE116E=======-- from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Feb 28 17:07:40 2002 g1SN7e828711 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:07:40 - Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:07:34 -0800 Subject: Re: devcon epoxy FILETIME=[B52037E0:01C1C0AC] You may be surprised at how little heat is required to remove it. Heat itgently, then stick it in a cup of ice.It is scary how easily this seems to nullify epoxy's bond strength. Jeff Schaeffer from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Thu Feb 28 17:38:00 2002 g1SNbw800387 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:37:59 -0600 Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:37:58 PST Subject: Re: Warped forms my understanding is that garrisons forms were bowedafter someone used them as a pry bar. he stuck a blockunder one end and used them the rest of his life. justa thoughtful note. timothy--- W Kifer wrote: Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten coldrolled forms? I finished my forms to within .005 on the grooves with theintention of finishing with a triangle stone. I recently got them out to finishand found they bowed slightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in themiddle when laid flat.You can see the bow when sighting down the forms. Theyare still flat side to side. I don't know why I didn't notice this whenworking on them earlier. It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface,finish the grooves, and use them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive aboutaccuracy I know it's going to bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat.I'm also concerned with planing accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could usesuggestions on alternative types of steel. The one and only supplier in thearea can't get stress relieved square stock. Any constructive suggestionswould be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from homes-sold@attbi.com Thu Feb 28 18:28:33 2002 g210SW801715 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:28:32 - Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:28:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Warped forms Wayne,This may sound crude, well it is crude but effective, place thin blocksunder the form equal distance from the high point and with the high side upstand on the crest of the form. Check to see if you made any progress, ifnot repeat the process again with slightly thicker blocks under the form andtry again The idea is to creep up on it, not fix it in one shot. I usedthis process once when I put a sweep in the Mast of a Hobie Cat I flippedin the surf, worked great.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Warped forms Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finishedmy forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing witha triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowedslightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.Youcan see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side toside. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier.It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, anduse them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it's goingto bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned withplaning accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternativetypes of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stressrelieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne from homes-sold@attbi.com Thu Feb 28 18:40:07 2002 g210e7802157 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:40:07 - ;Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:40:01 +0000 "Rodmakers Mail" Subject: Re: Warped forms Wayne,One final thought, you may want to check to see if the warp is in both railsor just one.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Warped forms Wayne,This may sound crude, well it is crude but effective, place thin blocksunder the form equal distance from the high point and with the high side upstand on the crest of the form. Check to see if you made any progress, ifnot repeat the process again with slightly thicker blocks under the form andtry again The idea is to creep up on it, not fix it in one shot. I usedthis process once when I put a sweep in the Mast of a Hobie Cat I flippedin the surf, worked great.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Warped forms Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finishedmy forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing witha triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowedslightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.Youcan see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side toside. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier.It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, anduse them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it's goingto bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned withplaning accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternativetypes of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stressrelieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne from CALucker@aol.com Thu Feb 28 18:44:32 2002 g210iW802420 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:44:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Braiding machine In a message dated 2/24/02 11:01:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz writes: In the meantime, does anyone have a drawing or plans for a braiding machine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turned anything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around a bit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I found the article in the British Magazine Country Life (May 8, 1997, issue). The value of the article is the close-up of Noel Buxton making a line. I assume this is the same machine used by Phoenix now in France. Please send me your address. I will send you the magazine. I do not feel like copying the picture and it goes past the centerfold anyway. You will now be in charge of the picture and text.Chris Lucker In a message dated 2/24/02 11:01:05 PM PacificStandard Time, d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz writes: In the meantime, doesanyone have a drawing or plans for a braiding machine? I have done a couple of searches in the archives and haven't turned anything up yet, although the subject has obviously been kicked around a bit. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated. I found the article in the British Magazine Country Life (May 8, 1997, not feel like copying the picture and it goes past the centerfold Chris Lucker from robertgkope@attbi.com Thu Feb 28 19:08:05 2002 g21181803112 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:08:04 - Fri, 1 Mar 2002 01:07:56 +0000 "Rodmakers Mail" Subject: Re: Warped forms I had the same problem and tried this method when I finished my formsseveral years ago. It doesn't work well for CRS, at least it didn't work forme. Then again, I only weigh 185 lbs. Maybe if you're the size of BobNunley it might work. I got as extreme as supporting my 6' forms at theends on top of 4x4 blocks and jumping onto them. The forms just threw meoff and bounced right back. Then I did the arithmetic and figured out thatthe most error this could possibly introduce was a fraction of a thousandthwhen planing on the concave side. I decided to live with it, but the bow inmy forms is only on the order of 1/8-3/16". If you find a solution to theproblem, I'd sure like to hear it. -- Robert Kope----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Warped forms Wayne,This may sound crude, well it is crude but effective, place thin blocksunder the form equal distance from the high point and with the high side up stand on the crest of the form. Check to see if you made any progress, ifnot repeat the process again with slightly thicker blocks under the form and try again The idea is to creep up on it, not fix it in one shot. I usedthis process once when I put a sweep in the Mast of a Hobie Cat I flippedin the surf, worked great.Don----- Original Message -----From: "W Kifer" Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:50 PMSubject: Warped forms Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finishedmy forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing with a triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowedslightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.You can see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side toside. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier.It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, and use them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it'sgoingto bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned with planing accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternativetypes of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stressrelieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Thu Feb 28 19:18:17 2002 g211IF803540 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:18:15 - Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:17:33 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:17:33 +0800 Rodmakers Mail Subject: RE: Warped forms Hi Wayne, I'll probably get shot for saying this, but I don't think aslight bow of 3/8" over six feet should affect accuracy at all. IMHO, aslong as the angles and depth of your grooves are accurate, the strips willsit perfectly well in them. Best regardsMike -----Original Message----- Subject: Warped forms Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finished my forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing with a triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowed slightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.You can see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side to side. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier. It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, and use them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it's going to bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned with planing accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternative types of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stress relieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Thu Feb 28 19:30:31 2002 g211UU804026 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:30:30 - g211UAu29407; "Rodmakers Mail" Subject: Re: Warped forms intead of standing on them, maybe you could put them on blocks, on a bench,and draw them down with bar clamps? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Warped forms Hi Wayne,I'll probably get shot for saying this, but I don't think aslight bow of 3/8" over six feet should affect accuracy at all. IMHO, aslong as the angles and depth of your grooves are accurate, the strips willsit perfectly well in them. Best regardsMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, 1 March 2002 5:50 Subject: Warped forms Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finishedmy forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing with a triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowedslightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.You can see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side toside. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier.It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, and use them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it'sgoingto bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned with planing accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternativetypes of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stressrelieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Thu Feb 28 19:47:21 2002 g211lK804539 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:47:20 - Subject: Re: Information and my concerns The Grizzly C1215 as Tony points out is labeled as a 1/2" fingernail bit.The diameter of the circle whose chord represents the fingernail is 5/8",making the radius 5/16". The section of the circle being cut (chord) alsohas a lot to do with how it functions as a reel seat. KurtNix, MO -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Information and my concerns I was just informed that 9/16 is larger than 1/2.I guess he is right so here was my reply. Sorry about that, my head was where the sun don't shine.To late at night man to think straight.I just went to the shop and measured the bit I use and it is 9/16 from point to point. The Grizzly Fingernail Bit on page 316 # C1215 in the Grizzly Catalog shows 1/2" point to point. That is what I based the 1/2" measurement on. In measuring my Grizzly C1215 bit, I find it is 9/16 and not 1/2". As Bob said, big thing is the radius. The radius on that bit suits me fine.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Spezio wrote: Tony Spezio wrote: David,I use a 1/2" point to point. I would think 9/16 is too small for most of us. 5/8 is too big. The Grizzley Bit I use is called a 5/8" bit but it is 1/2" point to point. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com David Rinker wrote: I have received orders for around 60 router bits so far. MLCS sent a drawing of the finished bit to me today I included it as an attachment below. Before I go any further on this, would you take a moment and decide it this is what you had in mind. I received a message from a list member concerning this companies router bits and his concerns that they would not work. I'm not sure if the bit will solve the problems Robert mentions. David, I'm interested in one and will definitely take one if you can be sure they are the correct size. I ordered one from MLCS several years ago in the 5/8" size and was disappointed. What they call a 5/8 inch diameter curve should leave a bead that has a radius of 5/16", but instead leaves a bead that is 5/8 inch high. The bead that this bit leaves has a larger radius than the the outside of a reel seat rather than the radius of the recessed slot in a reel seat. I believe that that you want is a bit that has a radius of 5/8 and leaves a bead that is on the order of 1/2" high. I have never used the bit I have because it simply won't work. If you place this order be sure that the bits are the correct size. -- Robert Kope Please study the drawings carefully to see if you think there will be any problems for you. I have suggested a change in the bit noted as a revision. Please send your feed back since I don't want an 60+ unusable bits. I will probably formulate an order for these sometime next week to giveanyinterested rodmakers a little more time. Just a reminder that production time on these will be approximately 2 months from order to delivery. I plan on placing the 50% down payment for the order (my wife is looking at me nervously). I think it will be easier that way. Upon receipt of the bits I will separate the items package and ship USPS to you. I will either include a bill with the shipment or more likely E-mail it to you. The bill will be $13 + PA Tax 6% + packaging ? + mailing. Somewhere close to $15 or $16 I would imagine. After you think this over please forward your final order along with an address for me to use in shipping. I've had some requests for a three wing cutter with a 60 degree notch for rough milling I use astacked milling cutter for my rough miller but if anyone can come up with a design that would work Id be glad to pass it on to MLCS for consideration and pricing. Let me know. My address isDavid Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940(215) 968-8561Thanks in advanceDavid Rinker --------------------------------------------------Name: MLCS Router Bit Design.jpgMLCS Router Bit Design.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 Name: My Router Bit Revision.jpgMy Router Bit Revision.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)Encoding: base64 from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Thu Feb 28 21:23:38 2002 g213Nb806656 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:23:38 -0600 Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:23:28 -0800 Fri, 01 Mar 2002 03:23:28 GMT Subject: Yooper heading south FILETIME=[748CF550:01C1C0D0] Guys Click Here from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 28 21:58:18 2002 g213wH807351 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:58:17 - Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Bill,After reading John's "grand Experiment" I, too, find the inconsistency to make the experiment invalid. All of this just goes to show that there are too many variables in this game. For instance, I built 6 8' rods for a 6 or 7 wf line and while all 6 cast well, one of them would cast 120' without double hauling. The dimensions were within .004" of each other so I attributed the variation to different culms {and power fibers). Also I wasn't using a real oven then, rather a vertical tube with a 300 watt bulb in the bottom so my heating was a little inconsistent. Anyway, I've been trying to repeat the rod but haven't been successful as yet.Regards,Hank. from saweiss@flash.net Thu Feb 28 22:55:05 2002 g214t4808565 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:55:04 - g214t30174900 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:55:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Organization: Prodigy Internet Bill,You may be inferring more than I implied. I meant that the variationsamong and within the operators' techniques are variables that may confoundthe experiment. In science, experiments are designed with as much controlaspossible for variables that might influence the outcomes. This experimentintroduces variables from everywhere. It makes it much more difficult toanalyze the results when you are trying to control some variables (i.e.taper) and then introduce a host of uncontrollable variables that includethe operators as well as the differences in materials, tools, andtechniques. One needs to be a bit cautious in coming to conclusions.This experiment is fun, because it shows us what we had suspected. It'spretty difficult to make the same rod twice.Steve Steve, Well, the apparent results don't really seem to reflect upon theparticipants, in my view. That is, I would imagine that the buildersthemselves probably took greater pains in building these rods than theymight have under other circumstances> Bill, Sounds like the experiment, like some others I have seen, demonstrates more about the participants than about the products. Steve from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Feb 28 23:05:08 2002 g21556808863 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:05:06 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Grand Experiment I've seen Jim's rods and his advise is well worth taking. Tony At 04:13 PM 2/28/02 +0000, Jim Bureau wrote: Claude: I plane my rods by hand and will tell you how I get my rods as accurate as possible. After gluing up a blank I measure the rod at each 5 inch station.. If the rod doesn't come out as I'd wanted it to, I make note's of it and adjust my planing form accordingly so the next rod comes out right on the money. As to the flat to flat measurement, I'm usaully able to get my tips to within .001 and the butt sections to within .004 from flat to flat. Butt sections are more difficult to hand plane accurately being as if the 60 degree angle is off it will make a more noticeable difference in the final demension from flat to flat. If I build a rod and it's not to demensions I chalk it up to experience and after building several rods I've pretty much eliminated this problem of having to adjust my planing form. I build mostly flamed rods and I wouldn't scrape a flamed rod to change the demensions as it would! take the color out of the rod. It would also eliminate valuable power fibers. I measure every rod I make and I'm always checking myself for my own satisfaction and improvement. If I make a rod and it's measurements are perfect from flat to flat, it tells me that my angle's are also perfect and my node work was excellent, at least for that rod. The most difficult thing about hand planing is to be able to repeat ones self time and again. It's the improper use of the plane that makes the biggest variation in hand planed rods followed by poor node preperation which will also cause poor measurements in hand planing. The solution to making accurate handplaned rods is to correct the problem before the blank is glued up, notafterwards. Hopefully others will respond to the use of the handmill and taper mills, neither of which I have experience with. /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Feb 28 23:09:13 2002 g2159B809169 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:09:11 - "Rodmakers Mail" Subject: Re: Warped forms It is crude and it does work. Did the same with my mast also after it wasn't dropped fast enough going under a bridge. Quite embarrassing that [:-)] Tony At 04:32 PM 2/28/02 -0800, Don Schneider wrote: Wayne,This may sound crude, well it is crude but effective, place thin blocksunder the form equal distance from the high point and with the high side upstand on the crest of the form. Check to see if you made any progress, ifnot repeat the process again with slightly thicker blocks under the formandtry again The idea is to creep up on it, not fix it in one shot. I usedthis process once when I put a sweep in the Mast of a Hobie Cat I flippedin the surf, worked great.Don----- Original Message ----- /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from bennetts@cybermesa.com Thu Feb 28 23:23:03 2002 g215N2809727 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:23:02 - for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:30:22 - Subject: Fw: New Workbench, and wood vise ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Troy, The vise I have is similar to one in the Woodcraft catalogue, item #141673, pg 41, $24.95. It is a simple vise, six inch jaws, does not swivel, butseems to work just fine for me. I use it to press nodes and hold cane strips bench as needed. Scott ----- Original Message -----From: Miller, Troy Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:09 AMSubject: RE: New Workbench, and wood vise What kind of vise is it? Where did you get it? Thanks -- TAM