from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Mar 1 02:50:08 2002 g218o7813091 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:50:07 -0600 Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:50:02 -0800 Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:50:02 GMT Subject: Warped forms FILETIME=[136C85F0:01C1C0FE] Don't worry about forms that are warped along their length, most of us who made forms from the first edition of Garrisons book quickly found that there was an error in the dimensions for the tip side of the forms. The solution was to mill or grind .020 off of one side of the CR steel forms leading to a 1/4 to 3/8" bow in the forms. I kind of wonder if that is how Garrisons forms were warped also. Anyway, lots of well planed rods have been made from warped forms. If you are having problems with the integrity of the glued up sections you should look elsewhere.A.J. _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Mar 1 03:37:25 2002 g219bO813755 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:37:24 -0600 Subject: Old Rods & Reels Neighbor of mine husband past away a few months ago she ask me if I knew =the worth of some fishing gear. Knowing that her husband was a saltwater = Turns out there are three 9' 3 piece bamboo rods, small casting reel, =automatic fly reel, and some flys still in the box. The rods belonging to his father are: Hardy, Devine & a custom rod. =Pat's father, Lunsford Dickson Fricks, was born in 1873 & retired in =1937 a famous doctor. Pat never used the rods so they have been in rod = The custom rod has a unique case, it looks like a 2x2 cover with a =velvet. Each face of the 2x2 has inlets the shape of the rod sections, =butt including the grip, mid section and the other two surfaces hold the =two tips. It even has indentations for the guides to fit and protect =them. Ends of the case are covered with leather and there are two small =leather straps to hold the sections in their grooves, clever ! Casting reel, says Julius Vom Hofe, Pat Nov 17 85 & Oct 8 1889.Fly reel, Diamond Automatic, Pat Nov 19' 07 & has a silk line on it. Anyone care to give some words of wisdom to tell this lady? I have some pictures I can send on request. TIA, Don Neighbor of mine husband past away a = she ask me if I knew the worth of some fishing gear. Knowing that her = was a saltwater guy I naturally thought that was the type of gear, = Turns out there are three 9' 3 piece = box. The rods belonging to his father are: = & retired in 1937 a famous doctor. Pat never used the rods so they = in rod bags and cases forever. Look in pretty good shape. The custom rod has a unique case, it = rod sections, butt including the grip, mid section and the other two = hold the two tips. It even has indentations for the guides to fit and = them. Ends of the case are covered with leather and there are two small = straps to hold the sections in their grooves, clever ! Reels: Casting reel, says Julius Vom Hofe, Pat= Fly reel, Diamond Automatic, Pat Nov = & has a silk line on it. Anyone care to give some words of = this lady? request. TIA,Don from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Mar 1 04:42:30 2002 g21AgS814374 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 04:42:28 -0600 g21AgJO68311; Subject: Re: Delamination city You know, Gerald, I may be missing the point here; but in my opinion itwould need to be a REALLY good lot of cane to be worth all that buggerisingabout. You would do it quicker, and probably better, from scratch, wouldn't you? Cheers Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Mar 1 05:05:42 2002 g21B5f814735 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 05:05:41 -0600 g21B5ZV71369; Subject: Re: Old Rods & Reels Don Vom who? Was that "Hope"? Or "Rofe" maybe? Nah, cannot possibly be of any use to anyone! Send it over and I'll get rid of it for you. Don't bother to thank me - gladto help. Peter from briansr@point-net.com Fri Mar 1 07:10:14 2002 g21DAD815983 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:10:13 -0600 Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:45:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Rods & Reels DonA Julius Vom Hofe casting reel usually goes between 350 to 500 $U.S.More =if it's mint.Cheers Brian Subject: Old Rods & Reels Neighbor of mine husband past away a few months ago she ask me if I =knew the worth of some fishing gear. Knowing that her husband was a = Turns out there are three 9' 3 piece bamboo rods, small casting reel, =automatic fly reel, and some flys still in the box. The rods belonging to his father are: Hardy, Devine & a custom rod. =Pat's father, Lunsford Dickson Fricks, was born in 1873 & retired in =1937 a famous doctor. Pat never used the rods so they have been in rod = The custom rod has a unique case, it looks like a 2x2 cover with a =velvet. Each face of the 2x2 has inlets the shape of the rod sections, =butt including the grip, mid section and the other two surfaces hold the =two tips. It even has indentations for the guides to fit and protect =them. Ends of the case are covered with leather and there are two small =leather straps to hold the sections in their grooves, clever ! Casting reel, says Julius Vom Hofe, Pat Nov 17 85 & Oct 8 1889.Fly reel, Diamond Automatic, Pat Nov 19' 07 & has a silk line on it. Anyone care to give some words of wisdom to tell this lady? I have some pictures I can send on request. TIA, Don DonA Julius Vom Hofe casting reel usually goes between= $U.S.More if it's mint.Cheers Brian ----- Original Message ----- Schneider Sent: March 1, 2002 4:41 =AMSubject: Old Rods & =Reels Neighbor of mine husband past away a = ago she ask me if I knew the worth of some fishing gear. Knowing that = husband was a saltwater guy I naturally thought that was the type of = wrong! Turns out there are three 9' 3 piece = box. The rods belonging to his father are: = Devine & a custom rod. Pat's father, Lunsford Dickson = born in 1873 & retired in 1937 a famous doctor. Pat never used the = they have been in rod bags and cases forever. Look in pretty good = The custom rod has a unique case, it = rod sections, butt including the grip, mid section and the other two = hold the two tips. It even has indentations for the guides to fit and = them. Ends of the case are covered with leather and there are two = leather straps to hold the sections in their grooves, clever =! Reels: Casting reel, says Julius Vom Hofe, = Fly reel, Diamond Automatic, Pat Nov = & has a silk line on it. Anyone care to give some words of = this lady? request. TIA, =Don from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Mar 1 07:43:35 2002 g21DhY816577 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:43:34 -0600 g21DhVdd000659 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:43:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Warped forms AJ, Hmmm, I just had my forms built per the Garrison specs, also from the first edition. Where is the dimensional error? I don't have the book here at work, and I'm in the process of tuning my forms at home. Thanks,Mark At 08:50 AM 3/1/2002 +0000, you wrote: Don't worry about forms that are warped along their length, most of us who made forms from the first edition of Garrisons book quickly found that there was an error in the dimensions for the tip side of the forms. The solution was to mill or grind .020 off of one side of the CR steel forms leading to a 1/4 to 3/8" bow in the forms. I kind of wonder if that is how Garrisons forms were warped also. Anyway, lots of well planed rods have been made from warped forms. If you are having problems with theintegrity of the glued up sections you should look elsewhere.A.J. _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 1 08:47:30 2002 g21ElT818966 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:47:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Grand Experiment To all,Can anyone tell me the dates for Grayrock this coming June? I'd like to be there this year.Regards,Hank. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 1 08:56:09 2002 g21Eu7819457 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:56:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Warped forms They could almost be in an S shape as long as the groove is correct unless you plan on laying the glued blank in the form to let it cure straight which it wouldn't IF the form was almost an S shape.Meaning I can't see it matters. Tony At 08:50 AM 3/1/2002 +0000, you wrote: Don't worry about forms that are warped along their length, most of us who made forms from the first edition of Garrisons book quickly found that there was an error in the dimensions for the tip side of the forms. The solution was to mill or grind .020 off of one side of the CR steel forms leading to a 1/4 to 3/8" bow in the forms. I kind of wonder if that is how Garrisons forms were warped also. Anyway, lots of well planed rods have been made from warped forms. If you are having problems with the integrity of the glued up sections you should look elsewhere.A.J. _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Mar 1 09:02:54 2002 g21F2r819986 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:02:53 -0600 g21F2qdd002402 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:02:52 -0500 Subject: Re: New Workbench, and wood vise Mark, I used to build planes for guys too. Got burned out on that too. Stopped making airplanes for almost three years. Good thing I had a good stock of already finished birds in the hangar. I've gotten away from the war bird stuff, and have gotten back to my first passion in flying - pattern. There's nothing quite like a graceful 2 meter pattern ship going through it's paces, and even when not practicing precision aerobatics, they are just so graceful flying around burning holes in the sky. Another great way to escape from the every day stresses. I'm currently flying a 2 meter Sequel, with a YS 120 AC for power, running 30% fuel through it with a 15" x 12" APC pattern prop on the front. The bird weighs in at just over 10 lbs, and will go vertical forever. If you think 'boo rod builders are anal, you should see pattern flyers when they build their ships.... Measuring wing incidence down to less than 1/2 of a degree, control throws to less than 1/10 of a degree using laser throw meters, using gram scales to measure balsa so they can get the lightest wings, etc.... Probably why I'm going to enjoy building bamboo. I've spent the last three nights tuning up my forms, and there's something to be said for a draw file going down the forms, and taking off little metal bits.... Kinda like the Neanderthal planers, and the music they hear when they are planing wood.... Mark At 08:19 PM 2/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 2/28/02 8:10:41 AM Central Standard Time,wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: I think you were in a similar situation to me. I did not make "kits" but Ibuilt models for other people and did set up for a couple of local shops. Acouple of my friends are prolific modelers. the designer of th IO andCallisto Sailplanes,the designer of the Chuperosa sailplane (I have anoriginal prototype of LeRoys first Chup') are both friends. Paul McIlrath,who designed several gummyband free flighters for Sig is a friend (the 29er,the Cabinaire, the Customaire) and I built something like 29 sig "wonders"Which are ablout the same scale as a 1/12 warbird. My last one had slightlyclipped wings (foam with tagboard skins) of about 32 inches and a Fox BB.15.My favorite "Russian" color scheme. though, ya know, the 48 inch wingversion was probably more manouverable (that one was a spitfire-ishcovering)and it had a plain bearing .15 from a chinese engine maker or somethign. TheFox BB .15 version was BLINDINGLY fast! Scary! The little Fox turned19,000rpm and sounded like a huge mosquito! A very angry mosquito! Fun. I hadthe ailerons sized up and set on "stun" I could get it to blur! yeah baby!But at this point I am not building or flying much. I have a Lil'Birdsailplane (2 M) that is about the best flying sailplane I have ever owned,but have not launched it in about 2 years.Ah well, life is like that. The junque goes and the good stuff stays! mark from splitcane@t-online.de Fri Mar 1 09:08:43 2002 g21F8g820394 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:08:42 -0600 id 16goeB-0003X8-04; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:08:35 +0100 fwd11.sul.t-online.com Subject: Re: Warped forms Hi Mr. Kifer,your problem and all suggestions of the list sound familiar [:)] . I'ld just liketo ad one thing: heat that da**d steel up to 1000ŸC and let it cool off slowly.(you should have done it before working your a** off on this uncooperativebarof iron [:)] cuMichael W Kifer schrieb: Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finishedmy forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing witha triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowedslightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.Youcan see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side toside. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier.It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, anduse them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it'sgoingto bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned withplaning accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternativetypes of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stressrelieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne from dickay@alltel.net Fri Mar 1 09:43:22 2002 g21FhH822236 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:43:17 -0600 Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:43:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Hank, It's usually the weekend after Father's Day. Wouldn't that be June20- 23Dick Fuhrman----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Grand Experiment To all,Can anyone tell me the dates for Grayrock this coming June? I'd like to be there this year.Regards,Hank. from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Mar 1 10:09:45 2002 g21G9i823653 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:09:44 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:54:39 -0600 Subject: RE: Warped forms Hi Wayne. I would not invest 1 hour of work on a set of bars that were notstress-relieved. I've seen some parts here in our plant that were machinedand complete. Then they dropped the part and it distorted in a way thatsimply boggles the mind. Not just simple brinelling of the part at thepoint of impact, but the whole part went haywire.... When tracing back the heat lot of the steel, it was found that they left outthe stress-relieving. Mechanical shock, temperature variations, who knowswhat else, can set off an internal "explosion" within the steel'scrystalline structure. It's horrific, and I could imagine how I'd feelafter investing 50+ hours (like I have in my forms), only to have themrendered unusable due to internal stresses.... I would say that would be the most critical property of the steel that youpurchase. More important than minimum yield strength, elongation, Charpy'simpact resistance, corrosion resistance, etc. Find another supplier if hecan't get you stress relieved bar. I would agree with all the posts thatsay they'll be fine to use as-is, but my concern would be that the surfacesmay not stay flat to each other, the groove may not stay perpendicular tothe surface (twisting), etc down the road. Guess I'm a glass- half-emptysorta guy when it comes to materials..... MHO -- TAM-----Original Message----- Subject: Warped forms Hello all, Anyone know an inexpensive way to straighten cold rolled forms? I finished my forms to within .005 on the grooves with the intention of finishing with a triangle stone. I recently got them out to finish and found they bowed slightly from end to end. Maybe 3/8" high in the middle when laid flat.You can see the bow when sighting down the forms. They are still flat side to side. I don't know why I didn't notice this when working on them earlier. It's been suggested I clamp them to a flat surface, finish the grooves, and use them anyway. Being somewhat obsessive about accuracy I know it's going to bug the heck out of me knowing they're not flat. I'm also concerned with planing accuracy. Barring any way to straighten them, I could use suggestions on alternative types of steel. The one and only supplier in the area can't get stress relieved square stock. Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,Wayne from trpgo@msn.com Fri Mar 1 10:09:52 2002 g21G9p823663 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:09:51 -0600 Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:09:42 -0800 Subject: Bumped off list FILETIME=[7F3474E0:01C1C13B] Just a question to find out why I have been bumped off the Rodmakers list=twice this week. Has this been happening to anyone else? Tom Just aquestio=n to find out why I have been bumped off the Rodmakers list twice this we= Tom from wkifer@harborside.com Fri Mar 1 11:17:56 2002 g21HHt827274 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:17:55 -0600 Subject: Forms --=======477F7B41======= ascii; format=flowed Thanks all, I believe I'll finish them as is, build a new set later. Yes, I'm a bit anal about this kind of thing. I admit it. I appreciate all the feedback. Wayne --=======477F7B41=======-- from caneman@clnk.com Fri Mar 1 13:01:28 2002 g21J1S802302 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:01:28 -0600 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:59:57 -0600 Subject: Tradition in Rodmaking This morning I got an email that made me think a little bit about our =craft. We do things because it is "tradition" and many times never =bother to investigate WHY. We do things like use only silk thread, only =Nickel Silver reel seats, only use particular types of finishes, only =use certain style guides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's ="tradition" to use these things. This little story has a pretty good =point to it. I thought it pretty much applied to all of us =rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, =then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were notpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's always been done. And that, my friends, is how TRADITION begins. This morning I got an email that made me think a little bit = Silver reel seats, only use particular types of finishes, only use = guides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's "tradition" to use these = it! Later,Bob Tradition cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. = long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the = Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with = makes = attempt with the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with = water. Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, = water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one.= monkey sees the banana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise = horror, all of the other monkeysattack him. After another attempt = monkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the = monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that = beating him have no idea why they were notpermitted to climb the = the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. = no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why= from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Mar 1 13:15:26 2002 g21JFP803228 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:15:26 -0600 (216.160.236.98) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3097829724_2207202 Reminds me of the urban legend about the new bride who cut the end off herham roasts before cooking the thing. Having never seen ham prepared thisway, the new husband asked why she did that. She said because that is howone cooks a ham, silly. Well, the husband asked the mother and got thesam=eresponse. When he asked the girls grandmother, though, he found out thatshe only had short pans and usually needed to do that so that the ham wouldfit. So, the real rodmakers=B9 question I want to ask is this, what are thesacrosanct traditions? I know rodmakers who use polyurethane finishes. Ihave seen many aluminum reel seats. Are the traditions cosmetic,generally=?Or are there some procedural traditions that may be superfluous? Jason On 3/1/02 11:59 AM, "Bob Nunley" wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think a little bit about our cra= ft. We do things because it is "tradition" and many times never bother toinvestigate WHY. We do things like use only silk thread, only Nickel Sil= ver reel seats, only use particular types of finishes, only use certain styleguides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's "tradition" to use these th= ings. This little story has a pretty good point to it. I thought it pretty muc= h applied to all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, = then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were notpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's always been done. And that, my friends, is how TRADITION begins. --B_3097829724_2207202 Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Reminds me of the urban legend about the newbride who= never=seen ham prepared this way, the new husband asked why she did that. gr=andmother, though, he found out that she only had short pans and usuallynee=ded to do that so that the ham would fit. So, the real rodmakers’ question I want to ask is this, what are the = finishes.= cosmet= sup=erfluous? Jason wrote: Thismorning I got a= because it is "tradition" and many times never bother toinvestiga= l seats, only use particular types of finishes, only use certain style guide=s, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's "tradition" to use these = oy it! Later,Bob Tradition monkeys=. Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with coldwater. with=the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try toprevent it. monkey fro=m the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wantstoclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if hetriesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. a=nd replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, th=en thefifth. stairs, h=e is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they werenotpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in thebeating of the newest monkey. t=he remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, nomonkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not?Because as far as they know that's just the way it's always been done. how TR=ADITION begins. --B_3097829724_2207202-- from ctcaneman@yahoo.com Fri Mar 1 13:26:14 2002 g21JQD804064 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:26:13 -0600 01 Mar 2002 11:26:13 PST Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Monkeys can make cane rods? --- Bob Nunley wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think alittle bit about our craft. We do things because itis "tradition" and many times never bother toinvestigate WHY. We do things like use only silkthread, only Nickel Silver reel seats, only useparticular types of finishes, only use certain styleguides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's"tradition" to use these things. This little storyhas a pretty good point to it. I thought it prettymuch applied to all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh..RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys.Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs underit. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climbtowards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of theother monkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attemptwith the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the othermonkeys will try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees thebanana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all ofthe other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, heknows that if he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original fivemonkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs andis attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment withenthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a newone, then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to thestairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no permitted to climb the stairs or why they areparticipating in thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, noneof the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for thebanana. Why not? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's alwaysbeen done.And that, my friends, is howTRADITION begins. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Mar 1 13:28:47 2002 g21JSl804434 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:28:47 -0600 id ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:21:35 -0500 id F563CFLS; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:21:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking As with business (I'm sure noone has ever heard this before), just askthe question, "Why do we do it that way?" The response, "Because that'sthe way we've always done it." About drives me nuts when I hear this. Kudos to all of those out there that question tradition and come up withnew ways of building rods. Jason Swan wrote: Reminds me of the urban legend about the new bride who cut the end offher ham roasts before cooking the thing. Having never seen hamprepared this way, the new husband asked why she did that. She saidbecause that is how one cooks a ham, silly. Well, the husband askedthe mother and got the same response. When he asked the girlsgrandmother, though, he found out that she only had short pans andusually needed to do that so that the ham would fit. So, the real rodmakers' question I want to ask is this, what are thesacrosanct traditions? I know rodmakers who use polyurethanefinishes. I have seen many aluminum reel seats. Are the traditionscosmetic, generally? Or are there some procedural traditions that maybe superfluous? Jason On 3/1/02 11:59 AM, "Bob Nunley" wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think a little bitabout our craft. We do things because it is "tradition" andmany times never bother to investigate WHY. We do thingslike use only silk thread, only Nickel Silver reel seats,only use particular types of finishes, only use certainstyle guides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's"tradition" to use these things. This little story has apretty good point to it. I thought it pretty much appliedto all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside thecage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it.Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards thebanana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the othermonkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with thesame result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Prettysoon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeyswill try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from thecage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the bananaand wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of theother monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows thatif he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original five monkeys andreplace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and isattacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment withenthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one,then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he isattacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea whythey were notpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participatingin thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, none of theremainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Whynot? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's always beendone. And that, my friends, is how TRADITIONbegins. -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Mar 1 14:08:30 2002 Received: from g21K8T806646 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 edtnes03-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122- X-Sender:dmanders/pop.telusplanet.net@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: Windows caneman@clnk.com From: Don & Sandy AndersenSubject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Cc: "Rod dmanders@telusplanet.net Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Bob,Best way I've ever heard it said: "tradition is no excuse" catch ya' Don At12:59 PM 3/1/02 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: arialThis morning I gotanemail that made me think a little bit about our craft. We do thingsbecause it is "tradition" and many times never bother to investigate WHY.We do things like use only silk thread, only Nickel Silver reel seats,only use particular types of finishes, only use certain style guides,etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's "tradition" to use these things.This little story has a pretty good point to it. I thought it prettymuch applied to all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later, Bob Tradition arial Start with a cagecontainingfive monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it. Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth,then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's just the way it's always been done. And that, my friends, is how TRADITION begins. ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from kenealyj@gwi.net Fri Mar 1 14:09:20 2002 g21K9I807023 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:09:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking I prove that one every day! [;-)] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Monkeys can make cane rods? --- Bob Nunley wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think alittle bit about our craft. We do things because itis "tradition" and many times never bother toinvestigate WHY. We do things like use only silkthread, only Nickel Silver reel seats, only useparticular types of finishes, only use certain styleguides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's"tradition" to use these things. This little storyhas a pretty good point to it. I thought it prettymuch applied to all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh..RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys.Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs underit. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climbtowards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of theother monkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attemptwith the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the othermonkeys will try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees thebanana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all ofthe other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, heknows that if he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original fivemonkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs andis attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment withenthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a newone, then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to thestairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no permitted to climb the stairs or why they areparticipating in thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, noneof the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for thebanana. Why not? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's alwaysbeen done.And that, my friends, is howTRADITION begins. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from kenealyj@gwi.net Fri Mar 1 14:12:36 2002 g21KCZ808619 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:12:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Someone said, I think that it was on this list, that the old timers used thebest of what was available to them. I use titanium guides, because I think they are better than other types(justmy opinion, not pushing it on anyone!!!!!!!! I don't want to start anargument over guide choice). Some traditions are nice, though, like silk thread- it looks nice and theguides will stay on for years. I think the original point is correct, we shouldn't hang on to traditionsjust because they are traditions. John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking As with business (I'm sure noone has ever heard this before), just askthe question, "Why do we do it that way?" The response, "Because that'sthe way we've always done it." About drives me nuts when I hear this. Kudos to all of those out there that question tradition and come up withnew ways of building rods. Jason Swan wrote: Reminds me of the urban legend about the new bride who cut the end offher ham roasts before cooking the thing. Having never seen hamprepared this way, the new husband asked why she did that. She saidbecause that is how one cooks a ham, silly. Well, the husband askedthe mother and got the same response. When he asked the girlsgrandmother, though, he found out that she only had short pans andusually needed to do that so that the ham would fit. So, the real rodmakers' question I want to ask is this, what are thesacrosanct traditions? I know rodmakers who use polyurethanefinishes. I have seen many aluminum reel seats. Are the traditionscosmetic, generally? Or are there some procedural traditions that maybe superfluous? Jason On 3/1/02 11:59 AM, "Bob Nunley" wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think a little bitabout our craft. We do things because it is "tradition" andmany times never bother to investigate WHY. We do thingslike use only silk thread, only Nickel Silver reel seats,only use particular types of finishes, only use certainstyle guides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's"tradition" to use these things. This little story has apretty good point to it. I thought it pretty much appliedto all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside thecage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it.Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards thebanana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the othermonkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with thesame result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Prettysoon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeyswill try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from thecage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the bananaand wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of theother monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows thatif he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original five monkeys andreplace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and isattacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment withenthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one,then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he isattacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea whythey were notpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participatingin thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, none of theremainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Whynot? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's always beendone. And that, my friends, is how TRADITIONbegins. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Mar 1 14:33:02 2002 g21KX1809977 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:33:01 -0600 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:32:56 -0500 Subject: radition in Rodmaking Does this apply to sic sided plastics?????? Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IgUUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANIHAwABAA8AJgAAAAUAFwEBA5AGAGwMAAAlAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAABAAAAFgAAAHJhZGl0aW9uIGluIFJvZG1ha2luZwAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAHBwWDVImwwCk4s7BHWmgKt/6StZ0QAAAIBHQwBAAAAIwAAAFNNVFA6Uk9EU1VQU1RSRUFNQEVYUExPUkVNQUlORS5DT00AAAsAAQ4AAAAAQAAGDgBEGPpgwcEBAgEKDgEAAAAYAAAAAAAAAMxU5FlSH8ERhGwGiNVQyFfCgAAACwAfDgEAAAACAQkQAQAAACEIAAAdCAAAvBYAAExaRnU/tmnHAwAKAHJjcGcxMjXyMgxgYzEDMAECAFABAUULYG4OEDAzMw8WZj5lD5IB9wKkA2MCAGNoEQrAc2V0AtFwcnFKMgAAKgqhbm8SUCAWMAHQAdA2D6AwNTDONBQhAdAUEDR9B20Cg+8AUAPUEf8TC2IT4RRQE7LPGPQU0AcTAoMyNwLjFr+PEwkcchRQHNt9U3cFsORkcxW2MjgafxuPHJ9FHaBDCsBuZWcIkEUseHQJ8AEAZAKDMzRZEY4yMx6xF3IgB20g9ENFIxQ1I48UQCS/JcWceXIjFBphEawxNhYx6ygPA4JHCdFrIxQesSoetw5QKz8Dc1QIcCMUOS1fDjcaYS6vA4IoSGViuQlwdykCgxRQMJ83JK9/MsYHEAGgDeAzpRYxKh041jY1XyXEQgdAdA3gM7TfLnEWbCSIBxMmFjQPwDs+9yfHPMUpZTQmoRZsKvg8xH0smDQ40UB+LnY8xC/2NP8aYUB9Mac8xDM8HrFF3jxM/zbMMIFAfTjHPMQ6VgKRCOaqOwlvME7PZQ4wNU/6/1ERUM9R2U/kUgJQb1Q/U/3/U39Rr0//EGAeoFnKWuFan/9bqU/kW9JaP14PXc1dT1t//V9EOQ5QYpRj8VwTY/BZw341ONAJw0iBXBRP4AKRc6h0eWwHkGgJ4HQAAPJxAyFsaQFABRABQAPwsGRjdGwKsQBgcwqwR2igH0Bo4m51bQIAYRBhdXRvAGBkanXjZtAFEGdodGgBCgFn0OUKAWkBkHAwAzEWMgwBPw9XEBgI0AnAaGBso25wd2z5bpQDMHMiQCKgbABOzwWwAMACcxMQY3MPkAMwpWpgZGvAaXYTgEQBENNqEDpwIFAKwGEJwGvg2GggRgIhZpMxJqBnkuhmaS0PkDhrUnRTaBx5M2BkcglQdfIWoHXyd/9AMTNgaQAB0HFRaQ9qH2sm33RTa89s323vbv5id7AJgD8CIHrxb+NzsHJwayF0LStzEANhOjlAb4CwU3WUYmoFkHSAsERhIrD+OnNkONBz73T/dg93H3gv/3k/ekxnIIewC4AOEnrxDDB/eyQOUHuvfL99z37ff+dS9mVx0B9hIDNAh7AEkHNk/xpggn+Dj4Sfha+GvghgaJDtC4BlZwBx0GwBQIe/iM+XidQgwQjQYgqwdDiKaP17hjIjcBAWm7GMZBNQF3D4b29mjL+Nz47XmoCP8HkLUHkvcyCUUAsRkGVz/3NkHrCRX5Jvk3+Uj4a/l4//ek97X4vvna+ev5/PoNKA0v+AdIGpMIBnn2ivpp9qz6jk/ZozOakvqj+rT6xfjsi1YLhEb2OyoAnwBUBNqPD/ZpMMAaIPox+kL6U/sk+zX/+ob7XPtt+377j/b/K/QYAP/YEcMbs0AFC7v7zPvd++7/+//8EPmJ+J74r/xF/Fb8Z//8eKj/zJxQ5Qyl/Lb8x/zY//lZ+Wr8/f0O+Z35rvm/+dD//VT9Zdb7CgP6FCycUPwNlP/9pf22/cf86f33/CH8Mv08//5Z/mr+e/rs/JpXDy46BxWffxNeRhAEA39NhxMu3gkCFPAiA88WbABaBtcBNiRfsAwAMQU2bi46C7NHPEsL//7c/u37Pv8S/yP/NP9F/WqHl/4EUt/FLI0ADA+2B0XTAAZU3zExBO4HYRESBQe1VuaxNQdxXRfY/+Mgkw/nDsQWZ0boEw1w2gIsGOoGPk0XjjQBEA1G95T2BccABwZyBOgL8R4BNQckHsQP7wCwBkutB1T6BuuUBk4qATUf6gYz8P8B3gckAQwXBw0ZJlXEpoHeB6CuJkZ/xQcvciYBHgD8BoDfM4sB+gD8D+dhCJD0EAwPBh6pAQ8xIF7jQ0ARBSD0B3QXAREhPT/4FAC/AeMAQgCuH8oPsQLnDSdiJwd2u0YGQjcBXCz/uw/xADgR+gcGfsEmcwd3FwFyUOoG8A8P7w6FB0/wlA3sEKMhi3AOD8UAAQ/vDf5NENYADgAFFOkVwAgN7g/06Q/xAqUBvBTpEWEf2wGMD3FrH+cE+gdxyDTpFOgF/Qc/2wCmByaw5h+TIkYDAfCDL3wPvgC1Fx4EM6XOpcx9BvcsFtcxD8cGcQPSAATTcQKhD7QApAIE/+ZupADiAgACG2AuML0PxS+i6OoHQJgPwQ/nCg8AFS/3AANBAKsRrA6UAZICPC3rK5A/IzNjQQI8NyFGMIwccIQf+QI8FsdmxBcP+R/yEw/8AnUbSwToAn0hYRusF+N+MR/5BA8ALAc4D/kHTxcBBhIC4IFCdWLnAn8u8MoShfKW8qf2w9oP+Q2ID/CwAsPy1PLl/jsP+QHPAr//swvzHEKSq8QEAvjzRvMaT+YkegOsE1jyeDTLAzPzf//zkPOh8nsEbQO2IoPzzPPd//KrxJwDtvQO9B/0MPJ7BLgP8/70V/Ro9HlBfQoNEX0ONA/7Rg/aD9j/6f/68AvwHPAt9/A+8E+3OA+GL5ibpwZxAgeHRoaVawtMDoQVbAb/wgcyJgV6HYgKDwH4FJYEkiYHM/WNMNCkxiIN9ZNUch6kDfIBUQZlpwXLB/tKAIMlqhtGBJYFVi+fIgAEFVVE9URVhUMExJU1RNUHOQICL9Bw4iWgBaElpw+zByUVohPjI/wPmX4z/kQuTlIFUvDABQUJCAIIBBHTBhefxzLFk/X3BEMF+/YM9h0t5UY/Nfn2VfYbRpIIC6cMp1UIF5YxVSb6DwuwD+a+lAZtVnn2EeWaZMT01f/05vT39Qj1GfUq9Tv1TM+fINbccAeHF4sAAAAAsAAYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwAQgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAACdqAQAeABKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA5LjAAHgATgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AFIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeABWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAACwAWgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAgoUAAAEAAAALAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMARYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwBGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADAEeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAAMAW4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwBsgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAABoUAAAAAAAACAfgPAQAAABAAAADMVORZUh/BEYRsBojVUMhXAgH6DwEAAAAQAAAAzFTkWVIfwRGEbAaI1VDIVwIB+w8BAAAAggAAAAAAAAA4obsQBeUQGqG7CAArKlbCAABQU1RQUlguRExMAAAAAAAAAABOSVRB+b+4AQCqADfZbgAAAEM6XFdJTkRPV1NcTG9jYWwgU2V0dGluZ3NcQXBwbGljYXRpb24gRGF0YVxNaWNyb3NvZnRcT3V0bG9va1xvdXRsb29rLnBzdAAAAAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03AAACAX8AAQAAAD0AAAA8TUJCQklFR01NS05NREJBSkpLRUlBRUJFQ0hBQS5yb2RzdXBzdHJlYW1AZXhwbG9yZW1haW5lLmNvbT4AAAAAAwAGEMTczXgDAAcQRgAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAEcAAABET0VTVEhJU0FQUExZVE9TSUNTSURFRFBMQVNUSUNTPz8/Pz8/VVBTVFJFQU1BTFdBWVMsVElNRE9VR0hUWVJPRE1BS0VSAADmPw== from tgoodman@mail.as.miami.edu Fri Mar 1 15:05:28 2002 g21L5R812488 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:05:28 -0600 id ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:05:22 -0500 Subject: RE: Tradition in Rodmaking this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. A fair critique, this monkey business, on all counts; we humans often don'tlike to change, and aren't half-aware of why we do things the way we do.Every new idea is worthy of consideration, and so is every old one, so everyaccepted practice in making split cane rods may be examined. The membersofthis list seem as innovative as you are traditional-but few will supportchange for the sake of change, all the same. There are values- aesthetic,cultural-worth defending on other than practical grounds. A. K. Bestdoesn't tie flies with natural materials for practical reasons or, at least,not only for practical reasons; numerous innovations have emerged fromusingsynthetic materials that are both cheaper and more widely available than thetraditional materials. But to go that route would mean missing the fun ofcollecting road kill. After all-to slide right down the slippery slope of questioning methods andtraditions-we know that most folks who fish don't fly fish, and of those whodo, most of them use graphite rods. There's little practical value inmaking and fishing rods from the lovely reed. I preach to the choir ofcourse in saying that we hold with split cane and Pearsalls' and Perfects(substitute as you like) because we like the properties of bamboo as amaterial, and the aesthetics too. (Okay; maybe it is worth noting that wehave little or no problem using an innovative reel on a classically maderod). On the technical process side, I'm sure, questions ought to beraised, and they will be: milling versus hand planing, Bob Milward'sheterodox analyses, etc. But there's a limit to our questions, isn't there?That is, we're committed to the material, and to much else. Among themanyreasons not to cast plastic is that one of the values in the livelytradition of cane rodmaking lies not only what you can do with bamboo butalso, I'd say, in what making does for the maker: what bamboo does to you.But I ain't arguing with Bob, either. --Tom CleanCleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} A=faircritique, this monkey business, on all counts; we humans often don't =liketo change, and aren't half-aware of why we do things the way we =do.=A0 Every new idea is worthy of =consideration, andso is every old one, so every accepted practice in making split cane =rods maybe examined.=A0 The membersof =this listseem as innovative as you are traditional-but few will support change =forthe sake of change, all the same.=A0 =Thereare values-aesthetic, cultural-worth defending on other thanpractical grounds.=A0 A. K. =Best doesn'ttie flies with natural materials for practical reasons or, at least, =not only syntheticmaterials that are both cheaper and more widely available than the =traditionalmaterials. But to go that route would mean missing the fun of =collecting roadkill.=A0 = After all-toslide right down the slippery slope of questioning methods and =traditions-weknow that most folks who fish don't fly fish, and of those who do, mostof them use graphite rods.=A0 =There'slittle practical value in making and fishing rods from the lovely =reed.=A0 I preach to the choir of course =in sayingthat we hold with split cane and Pearsalls' =andPerfects (substitute as you like) because we like the properties of =bamboo as amaterial, and the aesthetics too.=A0 =(Okay;maybe it is worth noting that we have =little orno problem using an innovative reel on a classically made rod).=A0 On the technical process side, =I'm sure,questions ought to be raised, and they will be: milling versus hand =planing, Bob Milward's heterodoxanalyses, etc.=A0 But there's a=limitto our questions, isn't there?=A0 =Thatis, we're committed to the material, and to much else.=A0 Among the many reasons not to =cast plastic isthat one of the values in the lively tradition of cane rodmakinglies not only what you can do with bamboo but also, I'd say, in whatmaking does for the maker: what bamboo does to you.=A0 But I ain'targuing with Bob, either.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --Tom = from briansr@point-net.com Fri Mar 1 16:07:41 2002 g21M7e816656 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:07:40 -0600 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:42:59 -0500 Subject: St David's day Happy St. David's day ,everyoneCheersBrian from rcurry@ttlc.net Fri Mar 1 16:42:05 2002 g21Mg4818548 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:42:04 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Source for waxes and Cascamite I noticed Rydenor -- http://www.rydenor.co.uk/ -- as a source for some interesting waxes and Cascamite (not Vegemite), a urea formaldehyde glue in powder form. Since the powder has a longer shelf life, this might be a cheap alternative to other UFs.-- Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >Frompaul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Mar 1 17:07:42 2002 Received: from mta03- g21N7f819751 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127- paul.blakley@ntlworld.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X- Subject: Re: Source for waxes andCascamite References: Content-Type: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Cascamite is readillyavailable in any DIY / Ironmongers here in the UK. It has a very long shelf life(providing it is stored away from moisture ) , it's very cheap and is availablein sufficiently small quantities to be opened , used and thrown away !Likewise it's available in bulk and can be stored for long periods . It was thefavoured adhesive for UK rodbuilders in the 50's and 60's but is still usedtoday by some ..........Paul Reed Curry wrote: I noticed Rydenor -- http://www.rydenor.co.uk/ -- as a source for someinteresting waxes and Cascamite (not Vegemite), a urea formaldehyde gluein powder form. Since the powder has a longer shelf life, this might bea cheap alternative to other UFs.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from pohl@earthlink.net Fri Mar 1 17:11:58 2002 g21NBv820104 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:11:57 -0600 helo=kathypohl) id 16gwBw-00070D-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:11:56 -0800 Subject: making a lathe I've been lathe surfing on the net, trying to find one for rod building.Whati've been finding is either one with a small spindle bore (3/8") or one withthe center to center distance that's too short (12" is too short in myopinion). However, there is the ideal lathe from sherline (model 4400) thatfits the bill but is out of budget (~ $700, WOW!). I'm just looking forsomething to turn my ferrule stations and the cork..... I've thought ofbuilding my own, any ideas? One of mine has been to take a zyliss lathe(comes with bed and tailstock, drill is mounted for motor) and adding ahead. Or start from scratch with a couple of pillow bearings and a shaft.But where would i get the parts like the spindle (with a bore), chuck, bedand tailstock. Any help would be great! Thanks, Mark from bob@downandacross.com Fri Mar 1 17:22:31 2002 g21NMU820952 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:22:30 -0600 ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:22:19 -0500 Subject: Wiring help Hi Guys:Please help the wiring challenged. There is a diagram from a motor I havehere:http://www.downandacross.com/wiring.gif The motor is wired to 220, but I want to run at 110. Where in the diagramwould I attach the black, white, and green wires for the power cord. Blackis hot and white neutral, green is ground? What goes to AB in the 110 wiringscheme, what goes to CD? ALso, what is the best way to run a ground? Towhat? I greatly appreciate you even looking. I did order a Baldor motor to replacethis one, but why not try to run it? I know 220 is preferred, but I wouldhave to have someone come out and rewire the shop/run a 220 receptacleandadd a breaker to accomodate it. I would like to try 110 first. Thanks, Best regards, Bob M. from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Fri Mar 1 17:23:43 2002 g21NNg821122 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:23:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking The last time I used nylon thread some big guy came in my shop and sprayedme with cold water!!!never again....tom----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Someone said, I think that it was on this list, that the old timers used the best of what was available to them. I use titanium guides, because I think they are better than other types(just my opinion, not pushing it on anyone!!!!!!!! I don't want to start anargument over guide choice). Some traditions are nice, though, like silk thread- it looks nice and theguides will stay on for years. I think the original point is correct, we shouldn't hang on to traditionsjust because they are traditions. John K----- Original Message -----From: "Todd Talsma" Cc: ; "Rodmakers" Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:25 PMSubject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking As with business (I'm sure noone has ever heard this before), just askthe question, "Why do we do it that way?" The response, "Because that'sthe way we've always done it." About drives me nuts when I hear this. Kudos to all of those out there that question tradition and come up withnew ways of building rods. Jason Swan wrote: Reminds me of the urban legend about the new bride who cut the endoffher ham roasts before cooking the thing. Having never seen hamprepared this way, the new husband asked why she did that. She saidbecause that is how one cooks a ham, silly. Well, the husband askedthe mother and got the same response. When he asked the girlsgrandmother, though, he found out that she only had short pans andusually needed to do that so that the ham would fit. So, the real rodmakers' question I want to ask is this, what are thesacrosanct traditions? I know rodmakers who use polyurethanefinishes. I have seen many aluminum reel seats. Are the traditionscosmetic, generally? Or are there some procedural traditions thatmaybe superfluous? Jason On 3/1/02 11:59 AM, "Bob Nunley" wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think a little bitabout our craft. We do things because it is "tradition" andmany times never bother to investigate WHY. We do thingslike use only silk thread, only Nickel Silver reel seats,only use particular types of finishes, only use certainstyle guides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's"tradition" to use these things. This little story has apretty good point to it. I thought it pretty much appliedto all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside thecage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it.Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards thebanana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the othermonkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with thesame result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Prettysoon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeyswill try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from thecage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the bananaand wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of theother monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows thatif he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original five monkeys andreplace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and isattacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment withenthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one,then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he isattacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea whythey were notpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participatingin thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, none of theremainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Whynot? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's always beendone. And that, my friends, is how TRADITIONbegins. --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from bob@downandacross.com Fri Mar 1 17:27:31 2002 g21NRU821539 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:27:30 -0600 1 Mar 2002 18:27:23 -0500 Subject: RE: St David's day Hi Brian:Same to you. I never knew who St. David was until you posted that. I foundsome info here. http://www.sucs.org/~rhys/stdavid.htmlMyself, I am a good Itralian St. Joe's celebrating boy.Best regards,Robert Rocky Maulucci (yep, that's really my name, but I win a lot of $because no one can ever guess what the middle R is for) -----Original Message----- Subject: St David's day Happy St. David's day ,everyoneCheersBrian from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Mar 1 17:40:36 2002 g21NeZ822322 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:40:35 -0600 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:40:30 -0600 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:25:42 -0600 Subject: Casting Clinics Y'all, I just wanted to tell you about my last couple of casting clinics. And you wouldn't believe the results. I am now of the opinion that maybegraphite is not the easiest thing to learn to cast with. I know, you'resaying "Duh, get with it Miller!" Call me a little slow.... It started when one of the students that has taken one of my classesbefore,wanted his daughter to learn to flyfish. He's been bringing her every week,and he is into cane himself, so we talk about bamboo rods all the time. Itold him that I had bought a new R.L. Nunley with a neato bamboo ferrule,and why I thought it was so smooth casting. Of course, that was likeshoving a beer in front of an alcoholic's face. Soon, everyone in the classwanted to cast it. And there was not a student that didn't reallyappreciate casting that rod. May have sold you a couple rods, there,Bob..... They all commented that they could feel everything that was goingon, and that it seemed easier to cast than their own rod, somehow. I think there is a whole undiscovered market out there, but I don't knowthat they are being reached. Of course, it is difficult with the barrage ofmarketing hype on plastic rods. But I think that this thing Ralph isputting together in Livingston, which I am so proud to help with, could be akey to getting people informed about the many benefits of cane. Until youactually feel and see a modern bamboo rod, you can't possibly come to gripswith how awesome they are (no pun intended). Preaching to the choir, Iknow.... Maybe we can do some preaching to the congregation now! : ) Those of you who are teaching casting classes, are you doing it with grassor carbon? TAM from bob@downandacross.com Fri Mar 1 18:46:27 2002 g220kQ823990 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:46:26 -0600 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.e" Subject: RE: Wiring help, Thanks for the help Guys. Got the motor working. Thanks for all the replies and the help.Tomorrow, off to the mill! Hurrah.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Wiring help Hi Guys:Please help the wiring challenged. There is a diagram from a motor I havehere:http://www.downandacross.com/wiring.gif The motor is wired to 220, but I want to run at 110. Where in the diagramwould I attach the black, white, and green wires for the power cord. Blackis hot and white neutral, green is ground? What goes to AB in the 110 wiringscheme, what goes to CD? ALso, what is the best way to run a ground? Towhat? I greatly appreciate you even looking. I did order a Baldor motor to replacethis one, but why not try to run it? I know 220 is preferred, but I wouldhave to have someone come out and rewire the shop/run a 220 receptacleandadd a breaker to accomodate it. I would like to try 110 first. Thanks, Best regards, Bob M. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Mar 1 18:51:57 2002 g220pu824228 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:51:56 -0600 Subject: RE: Casting Clinics Troy:I agree with what you find. My casting improved a lot when I tried a mediumactioned cane. I think the next time I manage to get my wife out fishing, Iwill hand her a cane rod instead of a T&T graphite.Best regards, Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Casting Clinics Y'all, I just wanted to tell you about my last couple of casting clinics. And you wouldn't believe the results. I am now of the opinion that maybegraphite is not the easiest thing to learn to cast with. I know, you'resaying "Duh, get with it Miller!" Call me a little slow.... from Notsooyoun@aol.com Fri Mar 1 19:22:08 2002 g221M7824943 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:22:08 -0600 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:21:59 -0500 Subject: Polishing I'm still having trouble polishing a rod section that I dipped when the varnish was too cold. I tried using micromesh in 3600 and 6000 grit, and it just removes the varnish, and dulls the finish that remains. So I sprayed the area I was trying to polish and it left a fisheye appearance. I'm using a spar polyurethane. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. A not of minor interest or perhaps not, but it is only 57 days until trout season opens in Michigan.Thanks as alwaysGary "notso" from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Fri Mar 1 19:27:46 2002 g221Rj825212 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:27:45 -0600 Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:27:36 -0800 Subject: Re: making a lathe FILETIME=[6F5BC4D0:01C1C189] I made a lathe out of an old black and decker valve grinding machine I foundat a garage sale. Tore it down, cleaned and lubed everything, then mountedit to a board. Got a live center from woodcraft. It is still working. Now,valve grinding machines are not common items at garage sales, but if youlook long enough you can find anything. I would check out storage unitrepossession sales. It is truly amazing what people abandon. Avoid pawnshops. Everything is overpriced, and the tools have usually seen betterdays. Of course, this comment will hopefully draw at least five "Oh yeah?Guess what I found?" stories. I hope it is at least five. Jeff Schaeffer from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Mar 1 20:49:54 2002 g222ns826337 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:49:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Wiring help, Thanks for the help Ahh come on! What was the right answer!Mike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 1 21:03:14 2002 g2233D826671 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:03:13 -0600 Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Bob et al.,Are you trying to tell us that we're all monkeys in a cage? I like my cage.Traditionally,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 1 21:03:21 2002 g2233K826694 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:03:20 -0600 Subject: RE: Casting Clinics rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu To all.Using a moderate action cane rod in a beginners' casting clinic makes all the difference over a graphite (you'll excuse the word). The student "feels" the rod action more readily. My wife doesn't like to see me use my cane rods Regards,Hank. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Mar 1 21:03:47 2002 g2233k826878 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:03:46 -0600 ([209.179.149.29] helo=computer) id 16gzoE-0001Oc-00; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:03:43 -0800 Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking A smart monkey can make can rod and so can a dumb ass! LOL The only person who controls how I make rods is the same person who paysformy tools and time...and that just happens to be me. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking Monkeys can make cane rods? --- Bob Nunley wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think alittle bit about our craft. We do things because itis "tradition" and many times never bother toinvestigate WHY. We do things like use only silkthread, only Nickel Silver reel seats, only useparticular types of finishes, only use certain styleguides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's"tradition" to use these things. This little storyhas a pretty good point to it. I thought it prettymuch applied to all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh..RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys.Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs underit. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climbtowards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of theother monkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attemptwith the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water.Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the othermonkeys will try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees thebanana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all ofthe other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, heknows that if he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original fivemonkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs andis attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment withenthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a newone, then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to thestairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no permitted to climb the stairs or why they areparticipating in thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, noneof the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for thebanana. Why not? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's alwaysbeen done. And that, my friends, is howTRADITION begins. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!http://greetings.yahoo.com from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Mar 1 21:05:32 2002 g2235V827170 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:05:31 -0600 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:05:17 -0500 Subject: Fwd: making a lathe Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ Full-name: Troutgetter Subject: Re: making a lathe Since this seems to come up from time to time, check out this link below. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/LMS/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1525 I use a 7x10 mini lathe and have for years. I also mostly use mine for turning ferrule stations and grips, which I consider really basic. I'm saving my pennies for the bed extension, but because the 10" bed is still doing everything I need, I haven't put a priority on it. There are a lot of guys on this list who use the little Chinese lathes and are happy with them. $350.00 or less for the machine and $140.00 for the extension still keeps you under $700.00. There are better lathes available and I'm sure it would be fun to make your own, but ... Mike Shay Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Fri Mar 1 21:39:37 2002 g223da827873 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:39:36 -0600 Subject: Re: making a lathe Mark, I built my lathe years ago. It is a wood lathe, but I'm thinking of gettinga three jaw chuck to turn ferrule stations. Hand fitting them so far hasgone well though. My lathe has hard maple 2x6 for the rails, a 1 1/2" headstick shaft #2morsetaper bored out to 3/8. I had a machinist turn the spindle and the morsetaper, mounted the shaft on 1 1/2" flange bearings, bolted the whole thingdown to a 300# base and it is solid. 48" between centers which I needed forbuilding a rocking chair for my wife and our first child. Since then I'veturned everything from table tops (outboard) to reel seats and ferruleplugs. When we were moving every 3 or 4 years it was very amusing to watch themoving crew tackle it, then offer to take it apart for them. There is a plan somewhere on the rodbuilding web for making a turningapparatus from copper pipe fittings and pillow blocks. I think it was just Good luck KurtNixa, MO -----Original Message----- Subject: making a lathe I've been lathe surfing on the net, trying to find one for rod building.What i've been finding is either one with a small spindle bore (3/8") or one with the center to center distance that's too short (12" is too short in myopinion). However, there is the ideal lathe from sherline (model 4400) thatfits the bill but is out of budget (~ $700, WOW!). I'm just looking forsomething to turn my ferrule stations and the cork..... I've thought ofbuilding my own, any ideas? One of mine has been to take a zyliss lathe(comes with bed and tailstock, drill is mounted for motor) and adding ahead. Or start from scratch with a couple of pillow bearings and a shaft.But where would i get the parts like the spindle (with a bore), chuck, bedand tailstock. Any help would be great! Thanks, Mark from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Mar 1 21:54:53 2002 g223sp828401 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:54:51 -0600 Subject: Re: St David's day Got you beat Bob, Todd H. Talsma. That's it. Nope, just the initial.My parents didn't want to stick me with Harvey for a middle name, sothey just gave me an "H." Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi Brian:Same to you. I never knew who St. David was until you posted that. Ifoundsome info here. http://www.sucs.org/~rhys/stdavid.htmlMyself, I am a good Itralian St. Joe's celebrating boy.Best regards,Robert Rocky Maulucci (yep, that's really my name, but I win a lot of$because no one can ever guess what the middle R is for) -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:03 PM Subject: St David's day Happy St. David's day ,everyoneCheersBrian --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Rodmaking Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Rodmaking Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page: Under Construction from Troutgetter@aol.com Fri Mar 1 22:03:13 2002 g2243C828781 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:03:12 -0600 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:03:00 -0500 Subject: review Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 1 22:08:41 2002 g2248e829038 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:08:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking No question about it, that is exactly what it's all about. Tony At 12:59 PM 3/1/02 -0600, Bob Nunley wrote: This morning I got an email that made me think a little bit about our craft. We do things because it is "tradition" and many times never bother to investigate WHY. We do things like use only silk thread, only Nickel Silver reel seats, only use particular types of finishes, only use certain style guides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's "tradition" to use these things. This little story has a pretty good point to it. I thought it pretty much applied to all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it! Later,Bob Tradition Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were notpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's always been done. And that, my friends, is how TRADITION begins. /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Fri Mar 1 22:09:53 2002 g2249q829182 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:09:52 -0600 1 Mar 2002 23:09:46 -0500 Subject: RE: Wiring help, Thanks for the help Mike:Green is ground, use bolt in the "peckerhead" (the wiring box on the motor)to ground it. Then black to AB and White to CD. Motor ran great.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wiring help, Thanks for the help Ahh come on! What was the right answer!Mike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from dr.matro@airmail.net Fri Mar 1 22:18:15 2002 g224IF829613 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:18:15 -0600 id 16h0xb-000CqH-00; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:17:27 -0600 ring.iadfw.net sender: Organization: KC Graphics Subject: Re: Casting Clinics All, I always keep the cane close at hand when teaching, normally in my hand.If the student just isn't feeling it, I cane 'em. Ken from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 1 23:11:14 2002 g225BC801127 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:11:12 -0600 Subject: RE: Tradition in Rodmaking I think the problem here is that there is a certain amount of confusion in the market as to just what a bamboo rod is all about.I like to use them for trout because I like the action better than plastic and as we all know presentation is everything in trout fishingbut when I was salt fly fishing a bit all I used was graphite because it's better for that kind of use where all that matters is blasting the lure out and wrestling with the fish. Ultimatelty I stopped salt fly fishing too because catching tuna or wahoo on a 12 wt and non reversing reel is not really fly fishing IMHO so I went back to game gear.Living in Perth there is a lot of salt water flyfishing done and I've been asked to make rods to 12 wt. When ever I asked why a bamboo rod in 12 wt ship. I have nothing against these emotions but it says a lot about why people want a bamboo rod.I never made any of these rods because I think they'd have been disappointed in the rod compared with boron and graphite for the purpose. When it comes to the rods I've made for people living here in Australia where Hardy were the big name there seems to be a real desire for many people to have long rods and intermediates and ring guides rather thansnakes.I draw the line at this point and insist on snakes but it can be very hard to get around the intermediates.I know I could have sold more than twice the number of rods I have locally if I just went along with what they wanted but the whole thing seems so stupid to me I generally don't do it in the end if I detect a problem to save the inevitable hassle and I think this is mainly because these guys are after everything except casting qualities which means we have a serious case of monkey tag going on.Again, here in Australia the few dealers are dealing in old rods mainly and also assembled Partridge blanks with buggy whip actions and are selling on tradition. I know many makers have no problems with dealers and in fact prefer to use them but they are the ones setting the standard and pushing the plough we all must sow in if we want to sell a few rods. Tony At 04:05 PM 3/1/02 -0500, Goodmann, Tom wrote: A fair critique, this monkey business, on all counts; we humans often don't like to change, and aren't half-aware of why we do things the way we do. Every new idea is worthy of consideration, and so is every old one, so every accepted practice in making split cane rods may be examined. The members of this list seem as innovative as you are traditional-but few will support change for the sake of change, all the same. There are values-aesthetic, cultural-worth defending on other than practical grounds. A. K. Best doesn't tie flies with natural materials for practical reasons or, at least, not only for practical reasons; numerous innovations have emerged from using synthetic materials that are both cheaper and more widely available than the traditional materials. But to go that route would mean missing the fun of collecting road kill. After all-to slide right down the slippery slope of questioning methods and traditions-we know that most folks who fish don't fly fish, and of those who do, most of them use graphite rods. There's little practical value in making and fishing rods from the lovely reed. I preach to the choir of course in saying that we hold with split cane and Pearsalls' and Perfects (substitute as you like) because we like the properties of bamboo as a material, and the aesthetics too. (Okay; maybe it is worth noting that we have little or no problem using an innovative reel on a classically made rod). On the technical process side, I'm sure, questions ought to be raised, and they will be: milling versus hand planing, Bob Milward's heterodox analyses, etc. But there's a limit to our questions, isn't there? That is, we're committed to the material, and to much else. Among the many reasons not to cast plastic is that one of the values in the lively tradition of cane rodmaking lies not only what you can do with bamboo but also, I'd say, in what making does for the maker: what bamboo does to you. But I ain't arguing with Bob, either. --Tom /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 1 23:11:15 2002 g225BD801149 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:11:13 -0600 "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Tradition in Rodmaking I blame dealers for the most part not wanting to offer anything different to punters and where the makers are not using dealers they have to offer what the punter thinks he wants because that's what a bamboo rod should be of course. Tony At 12:15 PM 3/1/02 -0700, Jason Swan wrote: Reminds me of the urban legend about the new bride who cut the end offher ham roasts before cooking the thing. Having never seen ham prepared this way, the new husband asked why she did that. She said because that is how one cooks a ham, silly. Well, the husband asked the mother and got the same response. When he asked the girls grandmother, though, he foundout that she only had short pans and usually needed to do that so that the ham would fit. So, the real rodmakers question I want to ask is this, what are the sacrosanct traditions? I know rodmakers who use polyurethane finishes. I have seen many aluminum reel seats. Are the traditions cosmetic, generally? Or are there some procedural traditions that may besuperfluous? Jason On 3/1/02 11:59 AM, "Bob Nunley" wrote:This morning I got an email that made me think a little bit about our craft. We do things because it is "tradition" and many times never bother to investigate WHY. We do things like use only silk thread, only Nickel Silver reel seats, only use particular types of finishes, only use certain style guides, etc., etc., etc., mostly because it's "tradition" to use these things. This little story has a pretty good point to it. I thought it pretty much applied to all of us rodmonkeys... er, uh.. RodMakers. Enjoy it!Later,BobTraditionStart with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang abanana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, amonkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. Assoon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with coldwater.After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result- all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, whenanother monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try toprevent it.Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage andreplace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants toclimb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeysattack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he triesto climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace itwith a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. Theprevious newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm!Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then thefifth.Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were notpermitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in thebeating of the newest monkey.After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remainingmonkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkeyever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Becauseas far as they know that's just the way it's always been done. And that, my friends, is how TRADITION begins. /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Mar 1 23:11:17 2002 g225BF801157 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:11:16 -0600 Subject: Re: Source for waxes and Cascamite I use Cascamite powder for almost all gluing purposes around the house and a lot of uses on my boat too. My Ash oars are glued with it and are going strong and my boat tender is a glued lap construction dingy glued together only with Cascomite and no nails or screws at all. I've towed this at least 1,000 miles and it lives under a tree on the bank of the river opposite my boat and has survived all weather and kids (so far, the local kids will be it's end I'm sure. I'm surprised it hasn't been used as a bar b que).It's good stuff. I have to try a rod with it some time during the Winter. The only problem with it is it's hard to increase the pot life on warmer day though sitting the pot in another with ice cubes would work. Make sure to lid is very tightly shut or it'll harden in the container. I've had this happen and just broken the lumps that formed up and used it in the normal way but it must have reduced qualities if this happens.Cascomite is mixed with only water and used right away. It used to be called cold water glue.I once spoke to the boat builder who built my boat in 1958. He told me the scarfs of the planks on my boat were glued with Cascomite and riveted. None of the leading edges of the scarfs are showing signs of failure so it can't be too bad. The glue I've been using and like a lot is a liquid UF with a liquid hardener. This is very good too and as there is a hardener it's easy to extent the pot life by adjusting the amount of hardener used.You are right though, the Cascomite does have a longer shelf life, I went to use some UF a week back and it's hardened in the bottle. Tony At 05:46 PM 3/1/02 -0500, Reed Curry wrote: I noticed Rydenor -- http://www.rydenor.co.uk/ -- as a source for some interesting waxes and Cascamite (not Vegemite), a urea formaldehyde glue in powder form. Since the powder has a longer shelf life, this might be a cheap alternative to other UFs.--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from aport@si.rr.com Sat Mar 2 06:31:06 2002 g22CV5809259 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:31:05 -0600 Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:30:55 -0500 Subject: Re: making a lathe Hi Mark,I don't know if you're as loony as some of us on this list, but thebooks this guy writes are aimed at nuts like us! I haven't atempted any ofhis projects, but a friend who was knowledgeable in metalworking fullyintended to build his foundry and some others of the tools that come from itbefore he died unexpectedly and way too young. Even if you're not going touse his plans, I'll bet they give you some great ideas to fold into your ownwork. http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html Lindsay Books, the name at the bottom of the page, has a bunch of greattitles and probably could cobble together something on cane if they knew howmany of us out here would buy the damn thing!! Don't be put off by theirlead title, which is something like "How To Perform Your Own Pre- frontalLobotomy", they have some great stuff. Lots of it is reprints of manuals from the 1900s to '20s before everything came in a crate with instructionson how to throw it away included *G*. Just the sort of stuff we'dappreciate.As usual, ain't got NO interest in the company, etc, etc,...Art Ps: Just be careful you don't get into another, equally time-consuming hobbyalong the way! from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Mar 2 06:48:35 2002 g22CmX809603 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:48:33 -0600 g22CmQT35702; Subject: Re: tapers Kyle Not an expert on the subject (not that that has ever been known to deteranybody from giving plenty of opinions), but I agree with your choice of theDickerson, and would add the Payne 101 as an alternative; the Payne is myall-time favourite, and it is a pattern that, while pretty fast to beginwith does lend itself to tweaking here and there to speed it even more. Ihave made the Dickerson as well, and am going to build another. The 8015 isalso pretty quick, but a bit big for my taste. In the medium class, I would put forward the name of the Sir D. It is adelight to cast, and is certainly a good medium rod. I was amazed recentlywhen I sent a Sir D to a bloke in Melbourne who was keen to try a bamboorod with a view to buying one - I sent him the Sir D with some misgiving asthis bloke is a graphite man, and when he tells you what graphites he likesit sounds like a litany of stiff! I sent it to him for the simple reasonthat it was the only rod I had at the time that I wasn't seeing an immediateneed for, and warned him that he might find it a little relaxed for hisstyle; imagine my surprise when he got back in touch to say that he felt itwas quite a quick rod, much quicker than he had been expecting, and that hejust loved it. I may have a little trouble getting it back. Figure that one out if you can. Perhaps the rods he has been fishing are theones dictated by fashion and by the Accepted International Rules for PissingCompetitions, and maybe they are all just too damn fast for his castingstyle; maybe this is the first rod that he has ever fished with thatspecifically suits his natural rhythm. I really cannot explain it. I am areally crappy caster, and certainly not in any position to analyse castinglikes and dislikes. But that Sir D is a very, very different proposition from any rod that this bloke has ever fished with, and he just loves it. Also in the medium category I would put the 6'3" 3-weight of wayneCattanach's. I am really glad that humans have 2 hands, as that means thatwhen finally they have to prise open my cold dead fingers to remove thebamboo rods, there will be room for this rod as well as for the Payne! I wouldn't like to split the 2 PHY's, personally; they are bothprogressive- actioned rods, and I wouldn't call either of them slow. If youwant slow, go try an English rod from the 1950's - back cast, read a book,forward cast, read a book; it's why so many English fishermen from that eraappear so well educated - they had all this time to fill in while they weretrying to cast with their Hardy's. Also the Pezon & Michel Parabolics. I must say they are a bit beyond mycapabilities, so they don't interest me much. Actually, for a lucidexplanation of this phenomenon, read Nunley's Theory of Simian Aversion; Ihave been bucketed so comprehensively by rods of this type that I'mdiscouraged for good. There, I told you that lack of knowledge never gets in the way of opinions,didn't I? Cheers Peter from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Mar 2 07:31:38 2002 g22DVb810200 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:31:37 -0600 g22DVXdd018691 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:31:34 -0500 Subject: Re: making a lathe Mark, If you're only interested in turning ferrule stations and cork, why not look at a wood lathe? They give you a much bigger swing and bed length, much cheaper than a metal lathe. Mark At 06:06 PM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote: I've been lathe surfing on the net, trying to find one for rod building.Whati've been finding is either one with a small spindle bore (3/8") or one withthe center to center distance that's too short (12" is too short in myopinion). However, there is the ideal lathe from sherline (model 4400) thatfits the bill but is out of budget (~ $700, WOW!). I'm just looking forsomething to turn my ferrule stations and the cork..... I've thought ofbuilding my own, any ideas? One of mine has been to take a zyliss lathe(comes with bed and tailstock, drill is mounted for motor) and adding ahead. Or start from scratch with a couple of pillow bearings and a shaft.But where would i get the parts like the spindle (with a bore), chuck, bedand tailstock. Any help would be great! Thanks, Mark from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Sat Mar 2 07:36:01 2002 g22Da0810409 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:36:00 -0600 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:35:55 -0500 Subject: Test: delete Test: Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod Maker name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sat Mar 2 08:20:13 2002 g22EKC811945 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:20:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Casting Clinics I haven't actually used cane for the casting part of my 15 week middleschool fly fishing activity, but I'll have to this year. Two weeks ago, when the head of the local TU was showing my dozen kids thevarious types of fly rods out there, he'd pull each rod out of the bag andlay it on the library table in front of them... something like : an oldstyle fiberglass, followed by an early Sage, a nice Loomis, then abeautiful Winston, each with a matching reel (single action, then largearbor, etc). BUT, when he pulled out the bamboo rod and laid it with theothers, there was a collective gasp (honest to goodness) and thenuninhibited 7th and 8th grade oooos and ahhhs. Of course, the first student to recover turned to me and asked if they weregoing to get to try that kind of rod, too [:-)] Kat from Dennishigham@cs.com Sat Mar 2 09:09:22 2002 g22F9L812936 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:09:21 -0600 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:09:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Polishing Gary,I polish w/ micromesh but I start w/ 6000 and wet sand w/ water to 12000then go to Meguires plastic cleaner (#17) and finally Meguires plastic polish (#10)..Perfect-it works well too. Leaves me with a nice soft gloss finish. If I have a drip I start w/ 4000 micromesh. Don't get too agressive with the 3600-6000 grit or you'll polish right down to bamboo! Ask me how I know :-} Dennis from Dennishigham@cs.com Sat Mar 2 09:09:23 2002 g22F9M812940 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:09:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Grand Experiment Hank,Grayling starts Thur night the 20th thru Sun morn the 23rd. It's always the third weekend in June/ weekend after Father's day. Un-officially it starts whenever the first participant arrives usually sometime over Father's day weekend. Dennis from jojo@ipa.net Sat Mar 2 09:16:22 2002 g22FGL813922 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:16:21 -0600 helo=default) id 16hBFD-0001HJ-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:16:20 -0500 Subject: Re: making a lathe Don't forget Dave Gingery's books, available from Lindsay's. I think the manhas made every tool possible, even resorting to casting his own cast-iron.Lindsay's has more cool books than you could ever read and absorb. M-D Hi Mark,I don't know if you're as loony as some of us on this list, but thebooks this guy writes are aimed at nuts like us! I haven't atempted any ofhis projects, but a friend who was knowledgeable in metalworking fullyintended to build his foundry and some others of the tools that come from it before he died unexpectedly and way too young. Even if you're not going touse his plans, I'll bet they give you some great ideas to fold into your own work. http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html Lindsay Books, the name at the bottom of the page, has a bunch of great titles and probably could cobble together something on cane if they knew how many of us out here would buy the damn thing!! Don't be put off by theirlead title, which is something like "How To Perform Your Own Pre- frontalLobotomy", they have some great stuff. Lots of it is reprints of manuals from the 1900s to '20s before everything came in a crate withinstructionson how to throw it away included *G*. Just the sort of stuff we'dappreciate.As usual, ain't got NO interest in the company, etc, etc,...Art Ps: Just be careful you don't get into another, equally time-consuming hobby along the way! from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Mar 2 09:25:16 2002 g22FPF814247 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:25:15 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: More on Cascamite I used powdered urea formaldehyde resin in Canada years ago for veneering panels with excellent results. At that time you could buy it in the local hardware store, though I don't recall the brand name. The only source I can find in the U.S. is the illustrious Custom-Pak (see http://www.custompak.com/Adhesives/Powdered%20Plastic%20Resin.htm ).John Zimny, what do you think of this adhesive?-- Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ >Fromavyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 2 09:53:07 2002 Received: from g22Fr1814726 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 2002 15:52:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tony.iinet.net.au) 0000 Message-Id:X-Sender:avyoung@mail.iinet.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 , From: Tony Young References: avyoung@iinet.net.au Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Ihave a lot of the Gingery books and I can recommend them highly. They getright to the point and there isn't a spare word used. I've read the book onmaking a lathe as well as vertical and horizontal mills and provided you don'tmind putting in the time they look really good. Be warned though the Gingerysare fans of casting rather than fabrication so if you don't want to go downthat road the books on machinery may not be of much vale to you. I do castiron and bronze etc from time to time and while it's not rocket science it's anew skill you'll need to learn as well as tool up for. I think by the time you toolup and actually make the lathe it's probably not worth the savings UNLESSyou want to learn a new black art so you can make use of this knowledgelater. Should you decide to do this get their book on metal casting as well.Personally I think you can never know too many black arts but that's just me.The various Hasluck titles are also good reading. Tony At 07:28 AM 3/2/02 -0500, arthur port wrote: Hi Mark,I don't know if you're as loony as some of us on this list, but thebooks this guy writes are aimed at nuts like us! I haven't atempted any ofhis projects, but a friend who was knowledgeable in metalworking fullyintended to build his foundry and some others of the tools that come fromitbefore he died unexpectedly and way too young. Even if you're not going touse his plans, I'll bet they give you some great ideas to fold into your ownwork. http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html Lindsay Books, the name at the bottom of the page, has a bunch of greattitles and probably could cobble together something on cane if they knewhowmany of us out here would buy the damn thing!! Don't be put off by theirlead title, which is something like "How To Perform Your Own Pre- frontalLobotomy", they have some great stuff. Lots of it is reprints of manuals from the 1900s to '20s before everything came in a crate with instructions on how to throw it away included *G*. Just the sort of stuff we'dappreciate.As usual, ain't got NO interest in the company, etc, etc,...Art Ps: Just be careful you don't get into another, equally time- consuminghobbyalong the way! /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Sat Mar 2 10:00:29 2002 g22G0S815012 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:00:28 -0600 by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:00:26 -0500 Subject: Re: More on Cascamite You can pick up the same type of powdered Urea Formaldehyde at your localHome Depot/Lowe's store here stateside. Its called DAP Weldwood PlasticResin Glue. Comes in two colors. I use the tan because it blends with thenatural color of a blond rod. I have glued up 3 rods with this and have hadgood results. Pot life at 70 degrees is 4 hours, and it cleans up withwater. I must give credit for my discovery of this glue to Jerry Wall of JWFlyrods. He is the one that recommended it to me, and because I live in thefreaking boonies, he had to even send me some. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message ----- Subject: More on Cascamite I used powdered urea formaldehyde resin in Canada years ago forveneering panels with excellent results. At that time you could buy itin the local hardware store, though I don't recall the brand name. Theonly source I can find in the U.S. is the illustrious Custom-Pak (seehttp://www.custompak.com/Adhesives/Powdered%20Plastic%20Resin.htm).John Zimny, what do you think of this adhesive?--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Mar 2 10:10:28 2002 g22GAQ815358 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:10:27 -0600 "rod" Subject: Re: More on Cascamite There is also a UF glue that is just like this but also has a small amount of melamine so it's a three part jobbie in that it's a resin, hardener and melamine.This makes an unbelievably strong bond even when gluing very thick laminates which you shouldn't really do. It's probably not as strong as resorcinol but it's not as fussy as resorcinol when it comes to gap filling and working temperature range. Tony At 10:58 AM 3/2/02 -0500, Bamboo Joe wrote: You can pick up the same type of powdered Urea Formaldehyde at your localHome Depot/Lowe's store here stateside. Its called DAP Weldwood PlasticResin Glue. Comes in two colors. I use the tan because it blends with thenatural color of a blond rod. I have glued up 3 rods with this and have hadgood results. Pot life at 70 degrees is 4 hours, and it cleans up withwater. I must give credit for my discovery of this glue to Jerry Wall of JWFlyrods. He is the one that recommended it to me, and because I live in thefreaking boonies, he had to even send me some. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message -----From: "Reed Curry" Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 10:29 AMSubject: More on Cascamite I used powdered urea formaldehyde resin in Canada years ago forveneering panels with excellent results. At that time you could buy itin the local hardware store, though I don't recall the brand name. Theonly source I can find in the U.S. is the illustrious Custom-Pak (see http://www.custompak.com/Adhesives/Powdered%20Plastic%20Resin.htm ).John Zimny, what do you think of this adhesive?--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at:"http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html" Yea, though I walk in the river of very shallow depth I fear no failure, My rod and my reel they comfort me. /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Sat Mar 2 10:46:04 2002 g22Gk3816128 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:46:03 -0600 g22Gk2E32317 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:46:02 -0600 Subject: Re: More on Cascamite I have used in aircraft building and repairs in the days of wood wing spars.Used to buy it in Hardware stores. Never thought about using it for rods. Willgive it a go if I can find it here in the Arkansas boonies.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Bamboo Joe wrote: You can pick up the same type of powdered Urea Formaldehyde at yourlocalHome Depot/Lowe's store here stateside. Its called DAP Weldwood PlasticResin Glue. Comes in two colors. I use the tan because it blends with thenatural color of a blond rod. I have glued up 3 rods with this and have hadgood results. Pot life at 70 degrees is 4 hours, and it cleans up withwater. I must give credit for my discovery of this glue to Jerry Wall of JWFlyrods. He is the one that recommended it to me, and because I live in thefreaking boonies, he had to even send me some. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message -----From: "Reed Curry" Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 10:29 AMSubject: More on Cascamite I used powdered urea formaldehyde resin in Canada years ago forveneering panels with excellent results. At that time you could buy itin the local hardware store, though I don't recall the brand name. Theonly source I can find in the U.S. is the illustrious Custom-Pak (see http://www.custompak.com/Adhesives/Powdered%20Plastic%20Resin.htm ).John Zimny, what do you think of this adhesive?--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 2 10:58:37 2002 g22Gwb816619 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:58:37 -0600 Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:00:12 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: making a lathe Mark,if ferrule stations and cork is all you want to do, check out myfranken lathe on www.eboard.shawnsbamboopage.comit is a very simple, inexpensive tool that you can make in an afternoon and itworks!Chucks for wood lathes are impractical as by the time you buy a woodlathe and 3 jaw chuck, you might as well just buy a metal lathe,Shawn Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I've been lathe surfing on the net, trying to find one for rod building.Whati've been finding is either one with a small spindle bore (3/8") or one withthe center to center distance that's too short (12" is too short in myopinion). However, there is the ideal lathe from sherline (model 4400) thatfits the bill but is out of budget (~ $700, WOW!). I'm just looking forsomething to turn my ferrule stations and the cork..... I've thought ofbuilding my own, any ideas? One of mine has been to take a zyliss lathe(comes with bed and tailstock, drill is mounted for motor) and adding ahead. Or start from scratch with a couple of pillow bearings and a shaft.But where would i get the parts like the spindle (with a bore), chuck, bedand tailstock. Any help would be great! Thanks, Mark from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sat Mar 2 11:08:47 2002 g22H8k817183 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:08:46 -0600 Subject: ebay Has the ebay server crashed out ?..........Paul from jbbamboo@hotmail.com Sat Mar 2 12:11:57 2002 g22IBu818352 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:11:57 -0600 Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:11:51 -0800 Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:46 GMT Subject: Tradition FILETIME=[BA1DC720:01C1C215] And now, the rest of the story. snowshoes, and a closet full of bamboo flyrods. Why, not because I wasthreatened with a whippin from others for not falling in line, but because Ilike wearing something that my grandpa wore. Makes me feel good fishing traditional to improve upon. I'm not talking about my micro wave oven, long g!one, sold at a garage sale or replaced by another new latest and greatestitem. Many of my traditional belongings are still with me. Still got those wing my bamboo rods will always have two footed snake guides, silk thread andcork handle. If you want to use ceramic guides, a foam handle and the latestvibration dampening wrap under the handle, good for you. I'm sure it will lookgreat in your PVC rod tube. I'm no lemming and not a purist either and yet Ifind myself liking my traditionl belongings more and more. what changes have taken place. New adhesive's, every building techniqueunder the sun being tried, including such things like, new tapers, differingheat treating methods, bevellers, taper mills, node presses and everything isanalized and re analized. No wonder the best rods ever made are being madetoday. I think we've got the best of both worlds, but single foot guides, not from beadman@mac.com Sat Mar 2 12:22:27 2002 g22IMQ818789 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:22:26 -0600 2002)) Subject: Re: Grand Experiment At 10:08 AM -0500 , 3/2/02, Dennishigham@cs.com wrote about Re: Grand Experiment Hank, Thanks, all, for the info about comparing measurements. Claude from rmoon@ida.net Sat Mar 2 12:26:19 2002 g22IQI819044 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:26:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Tradition --------------2F12883FC01B1AF0F9B5104E Amen JimRalph Jim Bureau wrote: And now, the rest of the story. I'm a traditionalist of sorts, havea pair of winged tip shoes, a old wool hunting mackinac coat, doublebarrel shotgun, rawhide snowshoes, and a closet full of bambooflyrods. Why, not because I was threatened with a whippin from others grandpa wore. Makes me feel good fishing with cane like Garrison did.I'm 55 years old and spent a small fortune on the latest and greatestitem of whatever came down the pike and in many cases, have little toshow for it. I've bought and sold five perfectly good automaticshotguns and yet I still own my traditional double guns, no need toget a new one of them, they're just to traditional to improve upon.I'm not talking about my micro wave oven, my color TV, or my Simm'sWaders. You'd have to fight me for the waders. Much of my nontraditional stuff is long g! one, sold at a garage sale or replaced byanother new latest and greatest item. Many of my traditionalbelongings are still with me. Still got those wing tips and theplatform shoes are long gone. Many traditional items have stood thetest of time and people have come to respect them for that veryreason, myself included. Sorry to disagree with you guys but my bamboorods will always have two footed snake guides, silk thread and corkhandle. If you want to use ceramic guides, a foam handle and thelatest vibration dampening wrap under the handle, good for you. I'msure it will look great in your PVC rod tube. I'm no lemming and not apurist either and yet I find myself liking my traditionl belongingsmore and more. As to the construction of modern bamboo rods, it'samazing what changes have taken place. New adhesive's, every buildingtechnique under the sun being tried, including such things like, newtapers, differing heat treating methods, bevellers, taper mills, nodepresses and everything is analized and re analized. No wonder the bestrods ever made are being made today. I think we've got the best ofboth worlds, but single foot guides, not on any bamboo rod I'll everbuild. Jim -----------------------------------------------------------------------Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here --------------2F12883FC01B1AF0F9B5104E Amen JimRalphJim Bureau wrote: I'm a traditionalist of sorts, have a pair of winged tip shoes, a old woolhunting mackinac coat, double barrel shotgun, rawhide snowshoes, and acloset full of bamboo flyrods. Why, not because I was threatened with awhippin from others for not falling in line, but because I like wearingsomething that my grandpa wore. Makes me feel good fishing with cane likeGarrison did. I'm 55 years old and spent a small fortune on the latest have little to show for it. I've bought and sold five perfectly good automaticshotguns and yet I still own my traditional double guns, no need to geta new one of them, they're just to traditional to improve upon. I'm not Waders. stuff is long g! one, sold at a garage sale or replaced by another newlatest and greatest item. Many of my traditional belongings are still withme. Still got those wing tips and the platform shoes are long gone. Many to respect them for that very reason, myself included. Sorry to disagreewith you guys but my bamboo rods will always have two footed snake guides,silk thread and cork handle. If you want to use ceramic guides, a foamhandle and the latest vibration dampening wrap under the handle, good foryou. I'm sure it will look great in your PVC rod tube. I'm no lemming andnot a purist either and yet I find myself liking my traditionl belongings amazing what changes have taken place. New adhesive's, every buildingtechniqueunder the sun being tried, including such things like, new tapers, differingheat treating methods, bevellers, taper mills, node presses and everythingis analized and re analized. No wonder the best rods ever made are beingmade today. I think we've got the best of both worlds, but single foot Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: ClickHere --------------2F12883FC01B1AF0F9B5104E-- from Lazybee45@aol.com Sat Mar 2 12:44:58 2002 g22Iiw819575 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:44:58 -0600 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:44:45 -0500 Subject: Re: making a lathe In a message dated 3/2/02 7:32:21 AM Central Standard Time, wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil writes: Yuh! At the local "Re-tool" store (a reconditioned and second hand tool store) A decent Wood lathe is available WITH turning tools for less than $200. IF I remember correctly. the other mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from bennetts@cybermesa.com Sat Mar 2 13:00:54 2002 g22J0r820020 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:00:53 -0600 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:08:22 -0700 Subject: Gatherings Would some of you care to comment about the various bamboo gatherings =around the country (or the world for that matter)? I would love to =attend one or more this year but I don't have any info as to size, =dates, locations, etc. Usually by the time I hear about some event, it =is too late for me to make plans to attend because my wife has already = Thanks! Scott List, Would some of you care to commentabout = I would love to attend one or more this year but I don't have any info = it is too late for me to make plans to attend because my wife has = Scott from rmoon@ida.net Sat Mar 2 13:21:37 2002 g22JLa820584 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:21:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Gatherings --------------43A8A6D26296807BC29D010F The FFF Bamboo Rod Symposium is in August. See the urlwww.ida.net/users/rmoonRalph"C. Scott Bennett" wrote: List, Would some of you care to comment about the various bamboogatherings around the country (or the world for that matter)? I wouldlove to attend one or more this year but I don't have any info as tosize, dates, locations, etc. Usually by the time I hear about someevent, it is too late for me to make plans to attend because my wifehas already made plans for me. That's why I love her... Thanks!Scott --------------43A8A6D26296807BC29D010F www.ida.net/users/rmoonRalph"C. Scott Bennett" wrote: some of you care to comment about the various bamboo gatherings around one or more this year but I don't have any info as to size, dates, locations, Scott --------------43A8A6D26296807BC29D010F-- from bamboorules@ns.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 2 13:34:05 2002 g22JY4821254 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:34:05 -0600 Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:35:45 -0400 Organization: New Scotland Fly Rods Subject: Re: making a lathe OOOPS sorry all, its been a while. The link should bewww.shawnsbamboopage.eboard.comShawn Shawn Pineo wrote: Mark,if ferrule stations and cork is all you want to do, check out myfranken lathe on www.eboard.shawnsbamboopage.comit is a very simple, inexpensive tool that you can make in an afternoon anditworks!Chucks for wood lathes are impractical as by the time you buy a woodlathe and 3 jaw chuck, you might as well just buy a metal lathe,Shawn Mark & Kathy Pohl wrote: I've been lathe surfing on the net, trying to find one for rod building.Whati've been finding is either one with a small spindle bore (3/8") or one withthe center to center distance that's too short (12" is too short in myopinion). However, there is the ideal lathe from sherline (model 4400)thatfits the bill but is out of budget (~ $700, WOW!). I'm just looking forsomething to turn my ferrule stations and the cork..... I've thought ofbuilding my own, any ideas? One of mine has been to take a zyliss lathe(comes with bed and tailstock, drill is mounted for motor) and adding ahead. Or start from scratch with a couple of pillow bearings and a shaft.But where would i get the parts like the spindle (with a bore), chuck, bedand tailstock. Any help would be great! Thanks, Mark from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Sat Mar 2 13:38:23 2002 g22JcN821524 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:38:23 -0600 Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:38:17 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:messageSubject: RE: More on Cascamite Thread-Topic: More on CascamiteThread-Index: AcHCA3qI2DdgdC3sEda4KABglOouXwAHnd9w "rod" FILETIME=[CD3DC010:01C1C221] g22JcN821527 Could you tell me what kind of heat is needed to straighten sections (notthat mine every need it....), say compared to PU or other known glues? Also,is it as toxic as URAC 185 and the similar liquid glues used by manyrodmakers? Thanks.... Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: More on Cascamite You can pick up the same type of powdered Urea Formaldehyde at your localHome Depot/Lowe's store here stateside. Its called DAP Weldwood PlasticResin Glue. Comes in two colors. I use the tan because it blends with thenatural color of a blond rod. I have glued up 3 rods with this and have hadgood results. Pot life at 70 degrees is 4 hours, and it cleans up withwater. I must give credit for my discovery of this glue to Jerry Wall of JWFlyrods. He is the one that recommended it to me, and because I live in thefreaking boonies, he had to even send me some. Joe =================================================Lost in the Hills of East Tennessee with a Bamboo Fly Rod in one handand a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bambooflyrod site at http://www.direct-pest.com/rodmaker----- Original Message ----- Subject: More on Cascamite I used powdered urea formaldehyde resin in Canada years ago forveneering panels with excellent results. At that time you could buy itin the local hardware store, though I don't recall the brand name. Theonly source I can find in the U.S. is the illustrious Custom-Pak (seehttp://www.custompak.com/Adhesives/Powdered%20Plastic%20Resin.htm).John Zimny, what do you think of this adhesive?--Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Sat Mar 2 14:12:17 2002 g22KCG822176 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:12:16 -0600 helo=default) id 16hFrW-0005pg-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:12:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Tradition Same here. There is much of tradition that appeals to me. Not just =because it is tradition, per se, but because it has stood the test of =time, has proven itself, and despite the latest and greatest having come =onto the world scene, it's still perfectly adequate and possibly even =better at doing it's job. I quite readily take and use the best of all =things, and discard the rest -- the worldly equivalent of Jeet Kune Do.Archery is another good example of something that has at its roots a =basic premise that has been expanded into mindbogglingness. I learned to =shoot on a selfbow, then moved into a fiberglass reinforced recurve. =Shooting was as easy as it gets. Then along comes the compound, and I =bought a Bear Whitetail Hunter, just to be sure that this was what I =wanted, then quickly ended up buying a Bear Alaskan, which at that time =was the top of the line. Lo and behold, only scant years later comes =along the cambow, an eccentric shape to the normally round wheels of the =compound. Speed and letoff were dramatically enhanced, not to mention =that the overdraw came into being, allowing one to shoot shorter and =lighter arrows at amazing speeds (for an arrow). Wow, we're really into =the technology end of things now. So, after a few years of that I sold =it all, and went back to my stickbow. I can more consistently shoot =accurately, even at moving targets, by only looking at the spot I want =the arrow to penetrate -- instinct shooting at its best. They took the =simplest thing in the world, flinging an arrow from a taut string and =wood, and complicated it no end with all manner of gadgets, sighting =devices, and mechanical "advantages". Now anyone can be an "archer". =Egad. M-D I'm a traditionalist of sorts, have a pair of winged tip shoes, a =old wool hunting mackinac coat, double barrel shotgun, rawhide =snowshoes, and a closet full of bamboo flyrods. Why, not because I was =threatened with a whippin from others for not falling in line, but =because I like wearing something that my grandpa wore. Makes me feel =good fishing with cane like Garrison did. I'm 55 years old and spent a =small fortune on the latest and greatest item of whatever came down the =pike and in many cases, have little to show for it. I've bought and =sold five perfectly good automatic shotguns and yet I still own my =traditional double