Subject: Howells ferrule overwraps Gary Howells overwrapped the ferrules on most of his rods because he =used Duronze ferrules. A tough material, great for ferrules, that has =been used by not only Gary Howells, but by Winston for decades, it is =not the most attractive material in the world, thus it was overwrapped. = I may be wrong on this, but I believe the last few years that Gary =was making rods, he went to Nickel Silver ferrules (again, maybe Tom =Morgan can give us more detail on this) and stopped overwrapping. The =last Howells rod I had (wish I still had it now) was a made in '82 and =had duronze ferrules with overwraps. It was an 8'6" 5 wt and very light =and comfortable to cast. The amount of thread and varnish it takes to =overwrap a ferrule does not any a perceptable amount of weight. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 1:30 PMSubject: Howells Rod on Ebay Interesting how Howell over-wrapped the female ferrule(all the way to =the welt) on that rod. It seems that would add alot of unnecessary =weight to the midpoint of the rod. Anyone else do this? Just curious. =Randall R. Gregory Randall, and anyone else interested. decades, it is not the most attractive material in the world, thus it = last few years that Gary was making rods, he went to Nickel Silver = weight. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Randall Gregory Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 = PMSubject: Howells Rod on =Ebay Interesting how Howell over-wrapped = alot of unnecessary weight to the midpoint of the rod. Anyone else do = Gregory from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Mar 23 20:38:49 2002 g2O2cm407572 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:38:48 - Subject: RE: Fiberglass Rods The softer action graphite fly rods are already on the market but themodern fiberglass ones are nearer to cane action.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Mar 23 20:38:50 2002 g2O2co407576 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:38:50 - Subject: Re: How soon can I try them out? Mark and John,Who waits months to try a new rod out? Not me!As soon as the varnish won't "fingerprint" go to it.Hank. from robertgkope@attbi.com Sat Mar 23 21:58:39 2002 g2O3wc409197 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:58:39 -0600 Subject: Heat treating with Nylon thread (heresy) In response to my earlier question about the melting point of Nylon I =got several warnings, but still I wondered. Then I remembered that I =had a set of strips that I had burned one end of before I put a heat =shield inside my heat-gun oven where the blast from the heat gun hits =the inside tube. I had never thrown these strips away, so I decided to =do an experiment. I took off the cotton thread, re-bound the strips with Nylon, and put =them in the oven. I gradually took the temperature up to 350 degrees =over about 1/2 hr, and then held it between 340 and 350 degrees for 15 =minutes. At one point the temperature spiked to 355 degrees. This is =substantially hotter than I normally heat treat. I usually try to keep =the temperature between 320 and 330 for 20 minutes. The strips started out blonde, but came out a dark caramel color all the =way through. The thread held and retained it's elasticity too, but when =I unwrapped the strips it broke in a couple of places. The nodes =actually came out flatter than they went in! They had popped up a =little the first time they went through the oven bound with the cotton =thread, but after heat treating with the Nylon, they were as flat as =they were right after rough planing. I wouldn't recommend this to others, because I suspect that I had the =thread very close to the point of failure in the oven. But I think I =might experiment some more with this. -- Robert Kope In response to my earlier question = melting point of Nylon I got several warnings, but still I = I remembered that I had a set of strips that I had burned one end of = put a heat shield inside my heat-gun oven where the blast from the heat = decided to do an experiment. gradually took the temperature up to 350 degrees over about 1/2 hr, and = The strips started out blonde, but came= it's elasticity too, but when I unwrapped the strips it broke in a = had popped up a little the first time they went through the oven bound = cotton thread, but after heat treating with the Nylon, they were as flat = were right after rough planing. this. -- Robert Kope from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sat Mar 23 23:53:15 2002 g2O5rF410823 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:53:15 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: fish lic.- not rodmaking I remember that and it was very funny though I did notice a few peoplescratching their heads wondering what the joke was [:-)] Though now I think about it maybe it was at the beach in Queensland I sawthe vacant stares [:-)] Up until the last few years I've always thought Aust and NZ shouldformalize closer economic and possibly constitutional ties mainly tobenefit NZ but the last 6 months to a year of some very questionableshenanigans over here have made me very thankful NZ has kept to the truepath and I can't wait to get there and never come back if it becomes par Tony At 06:53 AM 3/22/02 +1200, Ian Kearney wrote: Tony reminds me of a quote from a well known New Zealand politicianwhen he was asked by an Aussie newspaper reporter what action Australia should take regarding the NZ " dole blunders and dropouts" who were moving to Australia to collect the higher Australian dole and surf on the Queens beaches. His response " Australia should do nothing as the migration of these people to Australia is improving the average IQ of both countries" Ian /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Forks Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from stuart.rod@gmx.de Sun Mar 24 03:27:58 2002 g2O9Rv413466 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:27:57 - (149.225.84.226) Rodmakers Subject: Re: Epifanes Dip Hi David, I brush varnished two rods using firstly normal hair brushes and then foambrushes. The hair brush finish was difficult, I kept the varnish warm (waterbath) and brushed from tip to butt, it was difficult (for me) to keep thethickness of the varnish equal over the entire length of the rod. I also triedturning the rod section during brushing which was a mistake. On the advice ofalist member, sorry I have managed to delete the E-mail, I then tried usingfoambrushes, thinned the varnish 5% and brushed two flats at the same time.Thisworked much better but I still did not get the finish that I was hoping for,this no doubt was my fault as the person who gave me the information wasgettingwonderful finishes. I then moved on to a drip tube setup using a perspex tube in a drying cabinettokeep the varnish warm, better than my brushing attempts but it may havebeen aproblem with the thinner reacting with the perspex tube that caused the rodtohave "eyes" on the second layer of varnish. After that it went down hill withmetrying various thinning % and basically messing around in the hope ofstumblingover the perfect drip tube setup. We moved house and I now have enough headroom for a dip tube. I purchasedabrilliant dip tube from a German rodmaker, It is a steel inner dip tubecontained in a second outer tube with water inbetween the two tubes. Thewateris heated and circulated by an aquarium heater/filter. It is pumped from thebottom to the top of the outer tube at a fairly fast rate by the heater/filterand so and stays at a constant temperature. I find the idea brilliant, no lightbulbs or heating cables to mess around with, and a truly constanttemperature.He built the dip tubes himself and it must have been a very difficult weldingjob (the inner tube is completely encased in the airtight outer tube). I havejust started dipping with this setup using a dowel to try it out. I have notthinned the Epifanes at all. I can post the results if you like. Stuart David Parker schrieb: I am interested in trying Epifanes. I would like to try the brush finishingmethod. It seems that thinning the solution down by a factor of 5% (byvolume) is the general conclusion. Any thinner than this is likely to causeproblems according to the "experts" I've asked.You tried brushing and you say it worked "O.K." Why do you want to go todipping? What were the problems you experienced with brushing thevarnishon?Did you try lightly heating rod sections in a heating set-up after brushingthe varnish on? How about a rotation set up as the finish set up?I would appreciate any comments. David Parker ----- Original Message -----From: "Stuart Moultrie" Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 10:06 AMSubject: Epifanes Dip Hi everybody, Is there anybody on the list dipping their rods in Epifanes sparvarnish? I have tried brushing (foam) and a drip tube system and thoseworked o.k but have just installed a fantastic dip tube setup aftermoving to a place with enough headroom in the attic.The question is (asever) what % are you thinning the varnish? I tried 20% and 5% in thedrip tube and brush methods. I am heating the varnish to about 25ŸC (ŸF ?), perhaps I don't need tothin it down at all, any experiences with a dip tube and Epifanes wouldhelp. Also if I keep the varnish at a constant temperatur (25ŸC) in thedip tube will I have to mix the varnish before every use or will theheat keep it moving in the tube so that it doesn't settle. Thanks Stuart from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Mar 24 04:42:46 2002 g2OAgh414216 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:42:44 - g2OAgUs65162; Subject: Re: eBay-cool rod saracasm at it worse Yeah, Adam, and while we're about it let's get someone to slap a coat ofacrylic white on the ceiling of that damned Sistine Chapel thingy![:-)] Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Mar 24 05:18:19 2002 g2OBIH414687 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 05:18:17 - g2OBICY70164 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:18:13 Subject: Epon My humble apologies! I have always thought that those of you who say that they have to sand offthe binding string with Epon if you don't get it off quickly enough wereprobably exaggerating.I have been gluing with PU now for about 12 rods, and am currentlyfinishing two Payne 101 wannabe's, so thought it would be a good opportunityto compare glues; yesterday I glued one with Epon, and hung it up in thedrying cabinet. I hung up the second tip at 1645, ambient temperature about25 Celsius. I have one 100 watt globe burning in the cabinet.Usually, with the Epon, I would pull off the string about 12 - 18 hourslater, and not expect to have any trouble at all.Last night, for some reason that is not clear to me, I went down to checkon the sections at about 2200, and they were firm and set, so I thought thatI should probably take off the string a bit early.No way!Today I sanded the stuff off; I still think it's great glue, though you cansmell it for bloody days, even through nitrile gloves and face masks, butthat sanding is no fun at all!I am going to glue up the other clone with PU tomorrow, to see if there isany subjective difference in the blanks. I mean, I know that there WON'Tbe, but I'm going to do it anyway.... Anyone else have any experience like that with Epon (mixed 3:1) ? Peter from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Mar 24 06:20:28 2002 g2OCKR415343 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:20:27 - ([209.179.146.68] helo=computer) id 16p6yx-00039M-00; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:20:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Epon Peter, With Epon wipe it down with a white vinegar on a cloth and let the sectiondry up. The string will unzipped easily. And sanding is almost a joke, thatis to say, easy. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Epon My humble apologies! I have always thought that those of you who say that they have to sandoffthe binding string with Epon if you don't get it off quickly enough wereprobably exaggerating.I have been gluing with PU now for about 12 rods, and am currentlyfinishing two Payne 101 wannabe's, so thought it would be a good opportunity to compare glues; yesterday I glued one with Epon, and hung it up in thedrying cabinet. I hung up the second tip at 1645, ambient temperature about 25 Celsius. I have one 100 watt globe burning in the cabinet.Usually, with the Epon, I would pull off the string about 12 - 18 hourslater, and not expect to have any trouble at all.Last night, for some reason that is not clear to me, I went down to checkon the sections at about 2200, and they were firm and set, so I thought that I should probably take off the string a bit early.No way!Today I sanded the stuff off; I still think it's great glue, though you can smell it for bloody days, even through nitrile gloves and face masks, butthat sanding is no fun at all!I am going to glue up the other clone with PU tomorrow, to see if there isany subjective difference in the blanks. I mean, I know that there WON'Tbe, but I'm going to do it anyway.... Anyone else have any experience like that with Epon (mixed 3:1) ? Peter from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Mar 24 06:22:33 2002 g2OCMW415577 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:22:32 - ([209.179.146.68] helo=computer) id 16p711-0004BF-00; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:22:28 -0800 Subject: Re: eBay-cool rod saracasm at it worse You are right Peter, because all we can do it look at it and what good isthat? Anything that advances the art of rodmaking is good. How many of us sinceseeing that Jus Swell rod are thinking "How did they do that?"Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: eBay-cool rod saracasm at it worse Yeah, Adam, and while we're about it let's get someone to slap a coat ofacrylic white on the ceiling of that damned Sistine Chapel thingy![:-)] Peter from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 24 06:54:06 2002 g2OCs5416222 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:54:05 - for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 05:54:07 - Subject: Re: Epon Peter;I have used Epon for 4 years now, on about 2 dozen rods, and I havenever had to sand the thread off. I mix it 1-1, bind em up and hang em shop, in the winter they come in the house and hang in the varnishingcabinet with the light on, about 95f. Sometimes I get impatient and heatcure one at 200 for 2 hrs. The sanding part is most always the same,unless I attempt to sand too soon, in which case it just makes a gooeymess out of the sandpaper. I use cotton covered polyester thread foreverything and it comes off fairly easy no matter how I've cured theglue, sometimes it can be a bit more trouble getting it off the heatcured sections, but not much.. I also just did a small experiment. Ijust glued up a rod the other day and thought I would try to find outjust how much the Epon was ading to the dimension of the sections. Iplaned each strip to 1/2 the rod dimensions, measured very carefully all3 directions at every station, then when I taped it together for glueup, I taped on either side of the station marks and remeasured thesections at each station. I wrote those numbers down and managed toavoid breaking my own arm patting myself on the back for doing such afantastic planing job! After cleaning the sections yesterday, I remarkedthe 5" stations on them and remeasured and can report that, at 75degreesF and 30% humidity in Durango ,Co., at an approximate alttitude of 7,000ft. above sea level, Epon seems to add a fairly consistent .004" at eachstation for the full length of the rod. FWIWjohn Peter McKean wrote: My humble apologies! I have always thought that those of you who say that they have to sandoffthe binding string with Epon if you don't get it off quickly enough wereprobably exaggerating. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Mar 24 08:13:57 2002 g2OEDv417260 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 08:13:57 - Subject: Re: Epon Peter - My experience with Epon is similar to John's. If you take the string off within 24 hours, the glue will be "soft" and the string will come right off. If you wait a few days, or heat set the glue you will have a problem with the string, and the glue will be much harder to get off the blank. If you are working with soft glue, a cabinet scraper will do a much cleaner and quicker job of removing excess from the blank than sandpaper. If the glue is hard, the scraper will leave chatter marks, and you have no choice except to use files and sandpaper. If you want to heat set, it's easier to take the string and excess glue off after 12-24 hours, rebind, and then heat set. from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Mar 24 09:19:54 2002 g2OFJr418407 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:19:53 - 24 Mar 2002 07:19:46 PST Subject: Re: Rod ID Dave ,Michael Sinclair has a short chapter on the Weberrods. 1920 to 1929 the rods were built by Edwardswhile 1930 to end (37+ ?) the blanks came from Heddon.The Heddon is more common and of better quality.He mentions a model Henshall MasterKraft but not aStreamline . He only lists a group of Heddon made rodmodels. You may have an Edwards model pre 1930.--- Dave Norling wrote: Can anyone tell me who made a J.A. HenshallStreamline (marked with a decal on the shaft of buttsection) for Weber Life like Fly Company of Stevenspoint Wisconsin (marked on reel seat)? Dave Norling __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from HARRISTRIBE@aol.com Sun Mar 24 09:48:42 2002 g2OFmg419022 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:42 - for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:48:25 - Subject: 9' for 6wt, 2/2 Good Sunday morning to you all.I need some help guys. I need a medium fast, 2 piece, 9 foot for 6 wt. taper. Bass and light salt. I've searched the archives and all the 9' for 6wt tapers are for 3 piece rods. I don't know how to make a properconversion to a 2 piece. I also found an EC Powell 5wt. but again I am found wanting in the conversion department. Any help with making the conversions or sharing an existing taper will be appreciated greatly.JimH. Good Sunday morning to you all. archives and all the 9' for 6wt tapers are for 3 piece rods. I don't know how help with making the conversions or sharing an existing taper will beappreciated greatly.JimH. from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sun Mar 24 10:01:40 2002 g2OG1d419408 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:01:39 - Subject: public interest in bamboo Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and theinterest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog and ponyshow" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maine seems tohavea bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of therod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quitefun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except "Moose" andmaybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David from caneman@clnk.com Sun Mar 24 12:37:32 2002 g2OIbV421408 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:37:31 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo The interest in Cane Rods is definitely coming up! I did a short (2 hour)program at the Sowbug Roundup on the Making of Bamboo Rods, and thereweretwice as many attendees as I expected. Loads of questions, mostly good.The only question I avoided was about comparing graphite to cane. I skippedaround that by saying "I know graphite has it's place... it just isn't in myhands".The program was supposed to be over at 3pm I think, but it lasted untilcloser to four, and after that, a few stayed around to ask specificquestions and show some old rods that were Dad's or Grandpa's. I waspleasantly surprised at the amount of curiousity and participation. Justhope the interest in bamboo keeps climbing!!! Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: public interest in bamboo Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and theinterest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog and pony show" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maine seems to have a bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of therod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quitefun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except "Moose" andmaybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Mar 24 12:43:20 2002 g2OIhJ421702 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:43:19 - Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:43:19 PST Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo wasn't bill waara quoted as saying "bamboo is the rodmaterial of the future" or something similiar? timothy --- Bob Nunley wrote: The interest in Cane Rods is definitely coming up! I did a short (2 hour)program at the Sowbug Roundup on the Making ofBamboo Rods, and there weretwice as many attendees as I expected. Loads ofquestions, mostly good.The only question I avoided was about comparinggraphite to cane. I skippedaround that by saying "I know graphite has it'splace... it just isn't in myhands".The program was supposed to be over at 3pm Ithink, but it lasted untilcloser to four, and after that, a few stayed aroundto ask specificquestions and show some old rods that were Dad's orGrandpa's. I waspleasantly surprised at the amount of curiousity andparticipation. Justhope the interest in bamboo keeps climbing!!! Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott" Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 10:06 AMSubject: public interest in bamboo Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and the interest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog andpony show" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at 8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maine seems tohave a bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questions ranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe to rod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of the rod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quite fun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except "Moose" and maybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Mar 24 12:54:57 2002 g2OIsu422098 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:54:56 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Todd T"S site Anyone have the link for Todd's tips site and for the chatroom? Thanks, =Randall R. Gregory NW AR. Anyone have the link for Todd's tips = the chatroom? Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW =AR. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sun Mar 24 13:05:49 2002 g2OJ5n422514 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:05:49 - Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:05:47 -0800 Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:05:47 GMT Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo FILETIME=[E83050D0:01C1D366] My short reply to the inevitable question of comparing graphite to cane is that graphite is for casting and bamboo is for fishing. Of course I have a long answer too. [:)] A.J. From: "Bob Nunley" Subject: Re: public interest in bambooDate: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:39:01 - 0600 The interest in Cane Rods is definitely coming up! I did a short (2 hour)program at the Sowbug Roundup on the Making of Bamboo Rods, and thereweretwice as many attendees as I expected. Loads of questions, mostly good.The only question I avoided was about comparing graphite to cane. I skippedaround that by saying "I know graphite has it's place... it just isn't in myhands".The program was supposed to be over at 3pm I think, but it lasted untilcloser to four, and after that, a few stayed around to ask specificquestions and show some old rods that were Dad's or Grandpa's. I waspleasantly surprised at the amount of curiousity and participation. Justhope the interest in bamboo keeps climbing!!! Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott" Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 10:06 AMSubject: public interest in bamboo Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and the interest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog and pony show" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at 8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maine seems to have a bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of therod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quitefun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except "Moose" and maybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Mar 24 13:41:00 2002 g2OJex423334 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:41:00 -0600 24 Mar 2002 11:40:59 PST Subject: Re: Todd T"S site http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ the chat is a button from the above home page--- Randall Gregory wrote: Anyone have the link for Todd's tips site and forthe chatroom? Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sun Mar 24 13:49:19 2002 g2OJnI423706 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:49:18 -0600 (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Todd T"S site http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ the chat is a button from the above home page--- Randall Gregory wrote: Anyone have the link for Todd's tips site and forthe chatroom? Thanks, Randall R. Gregory NW AR. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Mar 24 14:05:01 2002 g2OK50424206 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:05:00 -0600 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Re: Todd T"S site Thanks, Everyone for Todd's site info. Randall G. NW AR.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Todd T"S site Randall,The URL is I hope this is what you need. Hal from flyfish@gbronline.com Sun Mar 24 14:22:16 2002 g2OKMF424683 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:22:15 - Subject: Handle adhesives What's anyone's favorite adhesive to glue up cork rings? I've used PU and epoxies with equal success--I tend to lean a littletoward the epoxies because they fill voids well, but they don't givemuch working time. Thoughts, anyone? Greg from bob@downandacross.com Sun Mar 24 14:26:56 2002 g2OKQs424967 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:26:55 - Subject: RE: Handle adhesives I usually use Tite Bond II. Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Handle adhesives What's anyone's favorite adhesive to glue up cork rings? I've used PU and epoxies with equal success--I tend to lean a littletoward the epoxies because they fill voids well, but they don't givemuch working time. Thoughts, anyone? Greg from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Sun Mar 24 14:29:46 2002 g2OKTj425329 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:29:45 - Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:29:44 -0500 Subject: In search of Kushner Taper I have probably bitten off more than I can chew. I realize I'm notexperienced enough to hold a class, but at our recent TU banquet I offered and the materials necessary to build the rod of the winners choice. Well it seems that the guy that bought the "opportunity" used to work forMorris Kushner. He went on to tell me that Kushner never sold his rodsinstead giving all of his rods away at no cost. When he asked Kushnerabout a rod, Kushner told him that he would have to build his own first andthen Kushner would give him one. At least that is what I understood thestory to be. Anyhow, it occurred to me that this guy might get a real kick out ofbuilding a rod using one of Kushner's tapers. I haven't heard much on thelist about him but did find the article on Reed's website concerning him. So my question is: Does anyone have any tapers that can be attributed toKushner? ThanksTim from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Mar 24 14:32:31 2002 g2OKWU425602 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:32:30 - Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:32:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Handle adhesives Bostik Clear............Paul Greg Kuntz wrote: What's anyone's favorite adhesive to glue up cork rings? I've used PU and epoxies with equal success--I tend to lean a littletoward the epoxies because they fill voids well, but they don't givemuch working time. Thoughts, anyone? Greg from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Mar 24 15:34:35 2002 g2OLYY426966 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:34:34 - Subject: Re: Handle adhesives Tite-Bond 2Mike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Mar 24 16:48:33 2002 g2OMmW428449 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:48:32 - for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:48:22 - Subject: Bill Fink's penta g2OMmX428450 I posted the original one piece version of this rod a week or so ago, and highly recommend it if you can build and/or carry it. Here is a computer generated two piece version for those who can't.Bill Fink's ultra DF action 7'3" 4-5 weight penta (strip dimensions). I suggest a #13 truncated ferrule. 0 -.03055 -.03910-.05015-.06625-.07330-.08035-.08640-.09245-.09950- .10655-.11360-.12065-.12770-.13575-.145bal - .155 OBTW, I noticed in one of the machine tool catalogs there is a special micrometer for measuring 5 fluted cutters. The anvil is a 108Ÿ notch. If you want to spend about $400, you can measure a glued up 5 strip rod with confidence. I think I'll wait for Harbor Freight to come out with the Chinese version. from harms1@pa.net Sun Mar 24 17:44:00 2002 g2ONhx429614 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:43:59 - Subject: Re: Handle adhesives Greg, I have always used Titebond. It bonds well, sets quickly, sands easily and leaves no glue line. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Handle adhesives What's anyone's favorite adhesive to glue up cork rings? I've used PU and epoxies with equal success--I tend to lean a littletoward the epoxies because they fill voids well, but they don't givemuch working time. Thoughts, anyone? Greg from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 24 18:07:25 2002 g2P07O400292 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:07:24 - for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:07:32 - Subject: Re: Handle adhesives Greg;I use Epon, it doesn't take much and I have to buy the stuff by thequart anyway. It works best if you put a slight amount on, then scrapeas much of it off again as you possibly can, just be sure to coat thewhole surfac e first. Ralph O'Quinn of U-40 tipped me off to that methodand it works really well, no glue lines at all. It also helps to washthe cork rings first, gets rid of the bleaching so yu don't get whiterings between every cork.john Greg Kuntz wrote: What's anyone's favorite adhesive to glue up cork rings? I've used PU and epoxies with equal success--I tend to lean a littletoward the epoxies because they fill voids well, but they don't givemuch working time. Thoughts, anyone? Greg from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 24 18:12:01 2002 g2P0C1400664 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:12:01 - for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:12:09 - Subject: Re: Epon Tom;Actually, I don't usually have any trouble taking the thread off nomatter how hard the glue is. The trick is the cotton covered polyesterthread, glace cotton is weak as a kitten, polyester is much stronger(and not affected by normal heat treating b.t.w.).john TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Peter - My experience with Epon is similar to John's. If you take the stringoff within 24 hours, the glue will be "soft" and the string will come rightoff. If you wait a few days, or heat set the glue you will have a problemwith the string, and the glue will be much harder to get off the blank. Ifyou are working with soft glue, a cabinet scraper will do a much cleaner andquicker job of removing excess from the blank than sandpaper. If the glueishard, the scraper will leave chatter marks, and you have no choice excepttouse files and sandpaper. If you want to heat set, it's easier to take thestring and excess glue off after 12-24 hours, rebind, and then heat set. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Mar 24 18:23:30 2002 g2P0NT401186 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:23:29 - ([209.179.146.102] helo=computer) id 16pIGl-0000zU-00; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:23:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Epon John, That is exactly what I have found here in So. Calif. and I am 30 minutes from the beach, 30 min. from the Mountains and 30 minutes from theDesert. Iguess the stuff is rather consistent. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Epon Epon seems to add a fairly consistent .004" at each station for the full length of the rod. FWIWjohn from dpvbkjs@somtel.com Sun Mar 24 18:40:16 2002 g2P0eG401895 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:40:16 - Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo Good answers! We actually had a rather edgy question put to us, something like "Why wouldanybody want to fish with one of those old kind of rods?" Inquiring mindswanna know. I was left to field the question since the individual askingseemed liked she'd rather squash males beneath her heels than listen to ananswer from one. My big three reasons go something like: The rod isn'thollow so it isn't as likely to break beneath your heel, er, foot, and thetapers allow the maker to select/design the rod to suit you better, andit's a natural material hand crafted by an individual. I'd accept any coaching. Kat My short reply to the inevitable question of comparing graphite to cane isthat graphite is for casting and bamboo is for fishing. Of course I have along answer too. [:)] A.J. The interest in Cane Rods is definitely coming up! I did a short (2 hour)program at the Sowbug Roundup on the Making of Bamboo Rods, and thereweretwice as many attendees as I expected. Loads of questions, mostly good.The only question I avoided was about comparing graphite to cane. Iskippedaround that by saying "I know graphite has it's place... it just isn't inmyhands".The program was supposed to be over at 3pm I think, but it lasteduntilcloser to four, and after that, a few stayed around to ask specificquestions and show some old rods that were Dad's or Grandpa's. I waspleasantly surprised at the amount of curiousity and participation. Justhope the interest in bamboo keeps climbing!!! Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and the interest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog and pony show" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at 8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maine seemsto have a bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of therod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quitefun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except "Moose" and maybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sun Mar 24 19:28:41 2002 g2P1Se402937 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:28:40 -0600 g2P1Xt6D018373 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:33:58 -0600 Subject: RE: public interest in bamboo I like to tell people that if I wait all year to get out to Montana/Wyomingto fly fish, I expect more from the trip than catching a few fish. I go onto picture the setting, talking of snow capped mountains in the background,the only sound heard is the stream passing underneath you as you stand inknee high water that is ice cold. Do you want a man made substance in yourfly rod or a piece of nature that has been hand crafted into an elegantpiece of fishing equipment. Fly fishing to me is more of a state of mindand not at all about catching fish. If they say it is all about catchingfish tell them to go to one of those pay by the pound fishing ponds whereyou expect to catch a fish on about every cast. Just my opinion. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: public interest in bamboo I like to tell people that if I wait all year to get out to Montana/Wyomingto fly fish, I expect more from the trip than catching a few fish. I go onto picture the setting, talking of snow capped mountains in the background,the only sound heard is the stream passing underneath you as you stand inknee high water that is ice cold. Do you want a man made substance in yourfly rod or a piece of nature that has been hand crafted into an elegantpiece of fishing equipment. Fly fishing to me is more of a state of mindand not at all about catching fish. If they say it is all about catchingfish tell them to go to one of those pay by the pound fishing ponds whereyou expect to catch a fish on about every cast. Just my opinion. Darrin Curtis -----Original Message----- K.J. Scott Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo Good answers! We actually had a rather edgy question put to us, something like "Why wouldanybody want to fish with one of those old kind of rods?" Inquiring mindswanna know. I was left to field the question since the individual askingseemed liked she'd rather squash males beneath her heels than listen to ananswer from one. My big three reasons go something like: The rod isn'thollow so it isn't as likely to break beneath your heel, er, foot, and thetapers allow the maker to select/design the rod to suit you better, andit's a natural material hand crafted by an individual. I'd accept any coaching. Kat My short reply to the inevitable question of comparing graphite to cane isthat graphite is for casting and bamboo is for fishing. Of course I have along answer too. [:)] A.J. The interest in Cane Rods is definitely coming up! I did a short (2 hour)program at the Sowbug Roundup on the Making of Bamboo Rods, and thereweretwice as many attendees as I expected. Loads of questions, mostly good.The only question I avoided was about comparing graphite to cane. Iskippedaround that by saying "I know graphite has it's place... it just isn't inmyhands".The program was supposed to be over at 3pm I think, but it lasteduntilcloser to four, and after that, a few stayed around to ask specificquestions and show some old rods that were Dad's or Grandpa's. I waspleasantly surprised at the amount of curiousity and participation. Justhope the interest in bamboo keeps climbing!!! Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and the interest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog and pony show" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at 8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maine seemsto have a bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of therod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quite fun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except "Moose" and maybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Mar 24 20:02:16 2002 g2P22G403764 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:02:16 - Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo In a message dated 3/25/2 12:41:02 AM, dpvbkjs@somtel.com writes: Hi Kat - A few years back I wrote an article for our local TU newsletter swatting down a surly upstart (whom we have since converted), who askedthe same question.Among other things I suggested that a cane rod is composed of naturalfibers. So are the muscles in your arm. They will soon come in tune with each other to produce the hard to describe, but very evident phenomenon known as"bamboo feel". Once you have felt it, you will never go back to plastic.To elaborate on A.J.'s short answer let me tell a secondhand story. Several years ago I had the good fortune to spend some time fishing with a groupthat included the great salt water fisherman, Chico Fernandez. The man is awealth of information, and the evenings were filled with stories. While Chico is known as a saltwater man, he is also a fine trout fisherman. He told us one night that he had two three weights, an upscale graphite, and a Gary Howells. He began to notice that he always caught more fish with the Howells andcould not figure out why. One day he was fishing with George Harvey, and asked George to watch him with both rods and explain the mystery. Mr. Harvey's answer was " When you use the graphite rod you are casting, when you usethe cane rod you are fishing". from jojo@ipa.net Sun Mar 24 20:14:01 2002 g2P2E0404258 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:14:00 -0600 helo=default) id 16pJze-0007j4-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:13:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon I concur. M-D Peter - My experience with Epon is similar to John's. If you take the string off within 24 hours, the glue will be "soft" and the string will come right off. If you wait a few days, or heat set the glue you will have a problem with the string, and the glue will be much harder to get off the blank. If you are working with soft glue, a cabinet scraper will do a much cleaner and quicker job of removing excess from the blank than sandpaper. If the glue is hard, the scraper will leave chatter marks, and you have no choice except to use files and sandpaper. If you want to heat set, it's easier to take the string and excess glue off after 12-24 hours, rebind, and then heat set. from jojo@ipa.net Sun Mar 24 20:43:10 2002 g2P2hA404965 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:43:10 -0600 helo=default) id 16pKRs-0003g2-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:43:05 -0500 Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo This isn't unlike the long answer that I give the more inquisitive. I tell themthat both plasticand bamboo are simply different substrates from which a rod is made, thateach has its own inherentadvantages and disadvantages, that while fish may be caught on both,bamboo is a natural materialand becomes an extension of yourself. This becomes evident in short order.Besides, contemplatingthe beauty of a plastic rod whilst resting the water, or myself, is notsomething I ever did.The man who owns the advertising agency which we use is a good friend. Inthe beginning, he couldn'tunderstand what the big deal was with having a bamboo fly rod. His majorconcern was over the weightissue, to which I always responded that only a wuss wouldn't be able to heft abamboo trout rod allday. Well, long story short, I let him cast a Payne 96 taper one day, and hehasn't been the samesince. He asked me the other day when his rod was going to be ready -- andanother convert is made.;o) M-D In a message dated 3/25/2 12:41:02 AM, dpvbkjs@somtel.com writes: Hi Kat - A few years back I wrote an article for our local TU newsletterswatting down a surly upstart (whom we have since converted), who askedthesame question.Among other things I suggested that a cane rod is composed of naturalfibers.So are the muscles in your arm. They will soon come in tune with each otherto produce the hard to describe, but very evident phenomenon known as"bamboofeel". Once you have felt it, you will never go back to plastic.To elaborate on A.J.'s short answer let me tell a secondhand story. Severalyears ago I had the good fortune to spend some time fishing with a groupthatincluded the great salt water fisherman, Chico Fernandez. The man is awealthof information, and the evenings were filled with stories. While Chico isknown as a saltwater man, he is also a fine trout fisherman. He told us onenight that he had two three weights, an upscale graphite, and a Gary Howells.He began to notice that he always caught more fish with the Howells andcouldnot figure out why. One day he was fishing with George Harvey, and askedGeorge to watch him with both rods and explain the mystery. Mr. Harvey'sanswer was " When you use the graphite rod you are casting, when you usethecane rod you are fishing". from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Mar 24 21:44:44 2002 g2P3ih406296 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:44:43 - Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:44:38 -0800 "DaveandKathy" ,"RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo FILETIME=[634B2090:01C1D3AF] ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo wasn't bill waara quoted as saying "bamboo is the rodmaterial of the future" or something similiar?timothy --- Bill made that statement about 1995 to a chorus of laughter. It was =at the Southfield Expo in the hospitality suite at a roundtable B.S. sess=ion. He recognized the growing interest then. ----- Original Message ----- From: timothy troester Sent:Sun= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: public interest in = "bam=boo is the rodmaterial of the future" or something similiar?timot=hy--- Bill made that statement about 1995 to a chorus oflaughter= from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Mar 24 21:46:16 2002 g2P3kF406510 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:46:16 - Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:46:10 -0800 "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo FILETIME=[9A43D9C0:01C1D3AF] It's a contagious disease!! john ----- Original Message ----- Subject: public interest in bamboo Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and theinterest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog and ponyshow" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maine seems tohavea bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of therod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quitefun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except "Moose" andmaybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David It's acontagi= dpvbkjs@somt=el.com Sent: Sunday, March2= rodmake=rs@wugate.wustl.edu Subject:= All,Yesterd=ay was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and theint= =ponyshow" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we s= in=Maine seems to havea bamboo rod story, they were often five or six d=eep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane =down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the cas= wer= doesn't=carry anything bamboo except "Moose" andmaybe some lawn furniture,s=o it was nice on their part to have us in.Hope the interest is ca=tching elsewhere.Kat andDavid from dybam@oct.net Sun Mar 24 22:09:00 2002 g2P490407257 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:09:00 - Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo Communications, Inc. Would you rather watch a home run while at the ball park or on TV.T.V. is more convenient but oh the feeling when at the park.Ask any hitter worth his salt if he would rather use a wooden bat or analuminum one. It's all in the feeling.Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo Good answers! We actually had a rather edgy question put to us, something like "Why would anybody want to fish with one of those old kind of rods?" Inquiring mindswanna know. I was left to field the question since the individual askingseemed liked she'd rather squash males beneath her heels than listen to ananswer from one. My big three reasons go something like: The rod isn'thollow so it isn't as likely to break beneath your heel, er, foot, and thetapers allow the maker to select/design the rod to suit you better, andit's a natural material hand crafted by an individual. I'd accept any coaching. Kat My short reply to the inevitable question of comparing graphite to cane is that graphite is for casting and bamboo is for fishing. Of course I have a long answer too. [:)] A.J. The interest in Cane Rods is definitely coming up! I did a short (2 hour) program at the Sowbug Roundup on the Making of Bamboo Rods, andthere were twice as many attendees as I expected. Loads of questions, mostlygood.The only question I avoided was about comparing graphite to cane. Iskippedaround that by saying "I know graphite has it's place... it just isn't in myhands".The program was supposed to be over at 3pm I think, but it lasteduntilcloser to four, and after that, a few stayed around to ask specificquestions and show some old rods that were Dad's or Grandpa's. I waspleasantly surprised at the amount of curiousity and participation. Just hope the interest in bamboo keeps climbing!!! Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Hi, All, Yesterday was the LL Bean Fly Fishing (and Spring Shooting) Expo, and the interest in bamboo rods was amazing. We were doing our usual "dog and pony show" (books and how a rod is made basics) in the lobby, and we started at 8am pretty much non-stop until 4pm. While everybody in Maineseems to have a bamboo rod story, they were often five or six deep asking questionsranging from "how do you turn that stick of cane down on a lathe torod-size?" to "how does impregnation affect the casting quality of the rod?" Some were merely curious, and some were downright smitten. Quite fun. Beans, by the way, doesn't carry anything bamboo except"Moose" and maybe some lawn furniture, so it was nice on their part to have us in. Hope the interest is catching elsewhere. Kat and David _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 24 22:18:57 2002 g2P4Iu407630 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:18:56 - for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:18:42 - Subject: Re: Handle adhesives Golf mart shafting epoxy.Long pot life and a nice tan color to boot. Rob Hoffhines from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Mar 24 22:53:57 2002 g2P4rt408646 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:53:55 - Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo Same with canoe paddles. Actually, same with canoes too. TY At 10:03 PM 3/24/02 -0600, Mark Dyba wrote: Would you rather watch a home run while at the ball park or on TV.T.V. is more convenient but oh the feeling when at the park.Ask any hitter worth his salt if he would rather use a wooden bat or analuminum one. It's all in the feeling.Mark----- Original Message -----From: D.P. Van Burgel & K.J. Scott Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 6:45 PMSubject: Re: public interest in bamboo Good answers! We actually had a rather edgy question put to us, something like "Why would anybody want to fish with one of those old kind of rods?" Inquiring mindswanna know. I was left to field the question since the individual asking /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Forks Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from dnhayashida@yahoo.com Sun Mar 24 23:38:25 2002 g2P5cO409689 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:38:24 -0600 24 Mar 2002 21:38:15 PST Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo I'm a little more practical than most of theseanswers. If I was able to manipulate tapers withgaphite as easily as I can with bamboo, I would bemaking graphite rods. Long ago I decided that mostrods were not casting the way I would have liked themto. I didn't want to leave it up to some designer in arod company to decide what kind of taper I liked. Iactually looked into what it would take to make agraphite rod myself. The oven, getting the prepregmaterial, the cellophane tape wrapping machine, allwas do-able, but the mandrels were just aboutimpossible to make myself. And they were so expensiveto have them made that I wouldn't be able to have onemade just to see how a rod made with it would cast.Too expensive to experiment with. Bamboo allows me tomade a one-off taper, and if I don't like it, no bigdeal, another blank in the fireplace. I guess my short answer is bamboo allows me to designmy own tapers. Darryl Hayashida __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Mar 25 02:47:47 2002 g2P8lj413038 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 02:47:45 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: 9' for 6wt, 2/2 understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Ask Ian to measure that 2 piece 9=B4 #7 rod I gave him. It=B4s built by theoldNorwegian company Asbjoern Hoergaard, and is hollow built in the butt. It i=sa real cannon of a rod, and I=B4m sure all the makers attending the Real SRGwould agree. later, =B4=AF'=B7.=B8=B8..>.=B7=B4=AF'=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF'=B7.=B8>=B8.=B7=B4=AF'=B7.=B8. ,....=B7=B4=AF'=B7..>>=B8.=B7=B4=AF'=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF'=B7...=B8>=B8.=B7=B4=AF'=B7.=B8. ,. Danny Twang94 Bayswater ave.Bayswater, AucklandNew Zealand dannyt@frisurf.no+64 9 445 8949 Subject: 9' for 6wt, 2/2 Good Sunday morning to you all.I need some help guys. I need a medium fast, 2 piece, 9 foot for 6 wt.taper. Bass and light salt. I've searched the archives and all the 9' fo=r6wt tapers are for 3 piece rods. I don't know how to make a properconversion to a 2 piece. I also found an EC Powell 5wt. but again I amfound wanting in the conversion department. Any help with making theconversions or sharing an existing taper will be appreciated greatly. Re: 9' for 6wt, 2/2 Hi Jim, Ask Ian to measure that 2 piece 9=B4 #7 rod I gave him. It=B4s built by theold=Norwegian company Asbjoern Hoergaard, and is hollow built in the butt. It i=s a real cannon of a rod, and I=B4m sure all the makers attending the RealSRG=would agree. later, =B8. ,. Danny Twang94 Bayswater ave.Bayswater, AucklandNew Zealand dannyt@frisurf.no+64 9 445 8949 From: HARRISTRIBE@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:48:25 EST Subject: 9' for 6wt, 2/2 Good Sundaymorning to you al=l. f= arc=hives and all the 9' for 6wt tapers are for 3 piece rods. I don't know how t= 5wt= =with making the conversions or sharing an existing taper will be appreciated=greatly.JimH. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Mar 25 04:09:06 2002 g2PA94414033 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 04:09:04 - g2PA8q439691; Subject: Re: Epon Mark The Epon 828 that I get from a company in Sydney comes with a hardenercalled L-139, and there is no doubt that the recommended mix is 3:1. The puzzling thing here is that I have used this brew for quite a few rodswithout ever having experienced this anomalous quick set-up everbefore. Looks the same, smells the same, cleans up the same, just sets upfaster. This particular sub-species of Epon is a structural adhesive, and in allrespects on which I am able to comment, it seems to be an excellent andfunctional glue; the suppliers are prepared to wax lyrical about its abilityto stick things to concrete, but are pretty non-committal about bamboo. Iwill probably go back to using PU in the main, mainly because it doesn'tsmell so bad, but the Epon is a good product with an adequate working time. Cheers Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 25 09:21:27 2002 g2PFLQ420133 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:21:26 - Subject: Re: Epon Peter,be careful about locally made Epon and hardeners. I'm not sure about the ins and outs of a local maker using an established name or if the Epon is being imported and the hardener is locally made or what ever but I know I was using what was sold to me as Shell Epon with the proscribed hardener that worked great until the hardener was modified. I wasn't told of the modification and had all 5 nodeless rods made with that batch fail on me.The modification was made to assist elasticity for use mixed with or applied under or over marine paints on steel vessels apparentlyI guess as long as you're not making nodeless rods it's unlikely you'll have problems no matter what is done so long as it sticks but as far as I'm concerned it's once bitten twice shy and Bingham Archery is the only place to get the stuff and I don't sell nodeless rods at all. Tony At 09:07 PM 3/25/02 +1100, Peter McKean wrote: Mark The Epon 828 that I get from a company in Sydney comes with a hardenercalled L-139, and there is no doubt that the recommended mix is 3:1. The puzzling thing here is that I have used this brew for quite a few rodswithout ever having experienced this anomalous quick set-up everbefore. Looks the same, smells the same, cleans up the same, just setsupfaster. This particular sub-species of Epon is a structural adhesive, and in allrespects on which I am able to comment, it seems to be an excellent andfunctional glue; the suppliers are prepared to wax lyrical about its abilityto stick things to concrete, but are pretty non-committal about bamboo. Iwill probably go back to using PU in the main, mainly because it doesn'tsmell so bad, but the Epon is a good product with an adequate workingtime. Cheers Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Forks Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Mon Mar 25 10:38:01 2002 g2PGc0424128 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:38:00 - IAA20440 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:37:57 - IAA05775 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:37:54 - g2PGbnx00019 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:37:49 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:37:35 -0800 Subject: FW: environmental quality? This was an actual letter sent to Ryan De Vries from the MichiganDepartmentofEnvironmental Quality, State of Michigan. Wait till you read this guy'sresponse - but read the entire letter before you get to the response. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Mr. Ryan De Vries2088 DaggetPierson, MI 49339 SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; MontcalmCounty Dear Mr. De Vries It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Qualitythat there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referencedparcelofproperty. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/orcontractorwhodid the following unauthorized activity: Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outletstreamof Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start of this typeofactivity. A review of the Department's files shows that no permits havebeenissued. Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is inviolationofPart 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource andEnvironmentalProtection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections324.30101to324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated. The Department hasbeeninformed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recentrainevent, causing debris and flooding at downstream locations. We findthatdamsof this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all activitiesatthislocation, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removingall wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel. Allrestorationworkshall be completed no later than January 31,1998. Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed sothat afollow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure tocomplywith this request or any further unauthorized activity on the site mayresultin this case being referred for elevated enforcement action. We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter.Pleasefeel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions. Sincerely,David L. PriceDistrict Representative Land and Water Management Division ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RESPONSERe: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County Dear Mr. PriceYour certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to respondto.Firstof all, Mr. Ryan De Vries is not the legal landowner and/or contractorat2088Dagget, Pierson, Michigan. I am the legal owner and a couple of beaversareinthe (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining twowood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond. While Ididnotpay for, authorize, nor supervise their dam project, I think they wouldbehighly offended that you call their skillful use of natural buildingmaterials "debris." I would like to challenge your department to attempttoemulate their dam project any time and/or any place you choose. Ibelieve I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills,theirdam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, theirdamdetermination and/or their dam work ethic. As to your request, I do notthinkthe beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dam permit priortothestart of this type of dam activity. My first dam question to you is: (1) Are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or (2) Do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to saiddamrequest? If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, throughtheFreedom of Information Act I request completed copies of all those otherapplicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we willsee if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams,oftheNatural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the PublicActsof 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan CompiledLaws,annotated. I have several concerns. My first concern is - aren't the beavers entitled to legalrepresentation?TheSpring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay forsaid representation-so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer. The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failedduringa recent rain event causing flooding is proof that this is a naturaloccurrence, which the Department is required to protect. In otherwords, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing themandcalling their dam names. If you want the stream "restored" to a damfree-flowcondition-please contact the beavers but if you are going to arrest them(theyobviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter being unable toreadEnglish) so be it. In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have arightto build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grassisgreenand water flows downstream. They have more dam right than I do to liveandenjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources andEnvironmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the natural resources(Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams). So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can bereferred The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then and there will be nowayforyou or your dam staff to contact/harass them then. In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a realenvironmentalquality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears. Bears areactuallydefecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecutingthe defecating bears and leave the beavers alone. If you are going toinvestigatethe beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where theydump!)Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable tocontactyouon your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dayoffice via another government organization-the dam USPS. Maybe, someday, itwillgetthere. Sincerely, Stephen L. Tvedtenluvsteen from quiet_reed@hotmail.com Mon Mar 25 11:38:29 2002 g2PHcT427345 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:38:29 - Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:38:22 -0800 Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:38:21 GMT Subject: 2002 NW Bamboo Rod Casting Demonstration FILETIME=[DC43F6B0:01C1D423] Hi: This is probably the final update on the Bamboo Rod Casting Demonstration. The event will be held as part of the Annual Fly Fishing Fair of the Santiam Fly Casters of Salem, Oregon. The Fair will be held in the Sparks Center of Willamette University in Salem, Oregon. The date is Saturday, April 6th, 2002, from 10 AM to 3 PM. The fair includes fly tying demonstration and instruction, fly fishing instruction, and a casting area. In previous years, graphite and fiberglass rods have been a part of the casting area. This year the Santiam Fly Casters have invited bamboo rod makers in the area to bring their rods and allow interested folk to cast their rods. For many people, the idea of bamboo is linked to heavy, hard to cast rods, or post-second World War rods from Japan. For others, it is the realm of the wealthy, beyond the pale of most fly fishers. This event is meant to dispel both misconceptions. Plus, it will be an opportunity to talk with the rodmakers themselves. Casting may be either in thegymnasium or the playing field outside, depending on weather. This several rodmakers have agreed to bring their rods and talk with visitors: AJ Thramer (Eugene), Chris McDowell (Eugene), Bill Bennett (Salem), Stephen Kiley (West Linn), and Gary Lohkamp (Gresham). Other rodmakers, including Cal Hudspeth, Chet Croco, Tim Stoltz, and of course, yours truly will also be in attendance. Please invite anyone who might be interested to come on down and have a great time. Send me some email for any other information, or contact anyof the Salem, Oregon fly shops: Creekside Fly Fishing, Fly Country Outfitters, and Valley Fly Fisher. BTW, I attended the Annual Fly Tyers Expo in Eugene on Saturday. Great show. Don ChenPO Box 1933Corvallis, OR 97339-1933quiet_reed@hotmail.com541- 750-8741 (messages) _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Mon Mar 25 11:54:13 2002 g2PHsC428322 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:54:13 - Subject: RE: environmental quality? Organization: Wethersfield Public Schools Dam, this is funny!! Government at its' best! -----Original Message----- Subject: FW: environmental quality? This was an actual letter sent to Ryan De Vries from the MichiganDepartment of Environmental Quality, State of Michigan. Wait till youread this guy'sresponse - but read the entire letter before you get to the response. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------Mr. Ryan De Vries2088 DaggetPierson, MI 49339 SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; MontcalmCounty Dear Mr. De Vries It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Qualitythat there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referencedparcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landownerand/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity: Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outletstream of Spring Pond. A permit must be issued prior to the start ofthis type of activity. A review of the Department's files shows that nopermits have been issued. Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is inviolation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resourceand Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994,being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws,annotated. The Department has been informed that one or both of the damspartially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and floodingat downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature areinherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all activitiesat this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition byremoving all wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel. Allrestoration work shall be completed no later than January 31,1998. Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed sothat a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failureto comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity on thesite may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcementaction. We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter.Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions. Sincerely,David L. PriceDistrict Representative Land and Water Management Division ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RESPONSERe: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20; Montcalm County Dear Mr. PriceYour certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to respondto. First of all, Mr. Ryan De Vries is not the legal landowner and/orcontractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan. I am the legal owner anda couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process ofconstructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outletstream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, authorize, norsupervise their dam project, I think they would be highly offended thatyou call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris." Iwould like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their damproject any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills,their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence,their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic. As to your request,I do not think the beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dampermit prior to the start of this type of dam activity. My first dam question to you is: (1) Are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or (2) Do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to saiddam request? If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, throughthe Freedom of Information Act I request completed copies of all thoseother applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps wewill see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams,of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of thePublic Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of theMichigan Compiled Laws, annotated. I have several concerns. My first concern is - aren't the beavers entitled to legalrepresentation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute andare unable to pay for said representation-so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer. The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failedduring a recent rain event causing flooding is proof that this is anatural occurrence, which the Department is required to protect. Inother words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing themand calling their dam names. If you want the stream "restored" to a damfree- flow condition-please contact the beavers but if you are going toarrest them (they obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letterbeing unable to readEnglish) so be it. In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have aright to build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, thegrass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam rightthan I do to live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of NaturalResources and Environmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the natural resources(Beavers) and the environment (Beavers' Dams). So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can bereferred The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then and there will be noway for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then. In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a realenvironmental quality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears.Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe youshould be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the beavers alone. If you are going toinvestigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not carefulwhere theydump!)Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable tocontact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response toyour day office via another government organization-the dam USPS. Maybe, someday, itwill get there. Sincerely, Stephen L. Tvedtenluvsteen from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Mar 25 12:58:26 2002 g2PIwP401424 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:58:25 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:42:24 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: public interest in bamboo Has anyone heard the song by the country group Rascal Flatts, called "LongSlow Beautiful Dance"? Whenever I hear that song, I think of my newinfatuation with bamboo. With all respect, AJ, cane is for casting,fishing, admiring, and anything else we want to derive from it. I thank youall for helping me realize this. Bamboo is profoundly impacting myflyfishing existence, day by day..... TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo My short reply to the inevitable question of comparing graphite to cane is that graphite is for casting and bamboo is for fishing. Of course I have a long answer too. [:)] A.J. from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 25 13:46:41 2002 g2PJke403895 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:46:40 -0600 Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:46:39 PST Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: This isn't unlike the long answer that I give themore inquisitive. I tell them that both plasticand bamboo are simply different substrates fromwhich a rod is made, that each has its own inherentadvantages and disadvantages, that while fish may becaught on both, bamboo is a natural materialand becomes an extension of yourself. This becomesevident in short order. Besides, contemplatingthe beauty of a plastic rod whilst resting thewater, or myself, is not something I ever did.The man who owns the advertising agency which we useis a good friend. In the beginning, he couldn'tunderstand what the big deal was with having abamboo fly rod. His major concern was over theweightissue, to which I always responded that only a wusswouldn't be able to heft a bamboo trout rod allday. Well, long story short, I let him cast a Payne96 taper one day, and he hasn't been the samesince. He asked me the other day when his rod wasgoing to be ready -- and another convert is made.;o) M-D From: In a message dated 3/25/2 12:41:02 AM,dpvbkjs@somtel.com writes: Hi Kat - A few years back I wrote an article for ourlocal TU newsletterswatting down a surly upstart (whom we have sinceconverted), who asked thesame question.Among other things I suggested that a cane rod iscomposed of natural fibers.So are the muscles in your arm. They will soon comein tune with each otherto produce the hard to describe, but very evidentphenomenon known as "bamboofeel". Once you have felt it, you will never go backto plastic.To elaborate on A.J.'s short answer let me tell asecondhand story. Severalyears ago I had the good fortune to spend some timefishing with a group thatincluded the great salt water fisherman, ChicoFernandez. The man is a wealthof information, and the evenings were filled withstories. While Chico isknown as a saltwater man, he is also a fine troutfisherman. He told us onenight that he had two three weights, an upscalegraphite, and a Gary Howells.He began to notice that he always caught more fishwith the Howells and couldnot figure out why. One day he was fishing withGeorge Harvey, and askedGeorge to watch him with both rods and explain themystery. Mr. Harvey'sanswer was " When you use the graphite rod you arecasting, when you use thecane rod you are fishing". ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from dryfly@erols.com Mon Mar 25 13:56:13 2002 g2PJuC404584 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:56:12 - ([208.58.202.174] helo=erols.com) id 16paZf-0001qV-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:56:11 -0500 Subject: Straightening with Epon Need to do some minor straightening to a nodeless rod that I glued upwith Titebond II (splices) and Epon (strips). What is the bestway....apply heat from a heat gun to specific areas or place strip inoven at 180 degrees and then straighten? ThanksBob from gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us Mon Mar 25 14:28:46 2002 g2PKSf406684 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:28:45 - with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:28:14 -0700 Subject: Question about grooved planes.... g2PKSk406695 I've been reading everything I can lay my hands on and find on the Internetconcerning rod building in preparation of getting my own set of forms andstarting off on this madness of converting grass into fly rods. My question is; what is the purpose of grooving the bottom of planes used inrodmaking? I see that some rod builders use grooved planes and othersdon't. Why? Are the forms set up differently when using grooved planes asopposed to non-grooved planes? Thanks in advance, Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908 Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Mon Mar 25 14:46:17 2002 g2PKkG407906 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:46:17 - for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:46:35 -0500 Subject: RE: public interest in bamboo Here are some excerpts from today's e-mail about the natural materialsusedto make bamboo rods. I've used PU and epoxies with equal success, Epon is a structural adhesiveGolf mart shafting epoxycotton covered polyesterthreadnot to mention the impregnation of bamboo, reel seat inserts, and all theother modern methods used to construct the modern bamboo rod. I guessthequestion becomes, what qualifies as a true bamboo rod? If what you aredescribing is a feel or action this two can be repeated in other materials,but what I am most curious about is what is casting and what isfishing????????? Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod MakerUpstream Custom Rods name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Mon Mar 25 15:04:35 2002 g2PL4Y409245 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:04:34 - g2PL1BH11240 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:01:11 -0700 14:02:32 2002 -0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:04:23 -0700 Subject: RE: environmental quality? another point of view g2PL4Y409248 (Not directed at my friends Patrick or Peter but to the list in general) You know who the real culprit is here, don't you? Well, having a littleexperience in maters such as these I can tell you. Mr. Stephen L.Tvedtenluvsteen has a sadly misinformed down stream neighbor thatreported the dams to DEQ as stated. The DEQ is obligated under law torespond to all reports and start an investigation. Law that the people ofMichigan voted into place. The DEQ writes these letters in order to initiateaction, stimulate a response and gather information. Better to get a letterthan to have a big 4X4 with a state seal parked in your driveway. Thesystem worked here! If Mr. Tvedtenluvsteen was building dams than he wouldhave been in violation of state law. If Mr. Tvedtenluvsteen's upstreamneighbor was building an upstream dam that flooded his land, I guarantee youhe would be crying to the DEQ for them to do there dam job. The people atDEQ are stuck in a no win situation and letters such as these just makematters worse. Ever wander why the perso!n answering the phone at a state agency sounds annoyed, well this is one ofthe reasons. A little kindness will get you much further down the road. Thiskind of response is like bad mouthing the police and fire departments whenyour neighbor reports your BBQ as a house fire. They will respond, and youwill get questioned, because failure for state workers to follow the letter ofthe law will result in even more criticisms. Bad mouthing the DEQ is alsoabout as productive as badmouthing the police or fire department. A lot ofgood a smartass is going to be for himself or the environment. Believe me,if David L. Price wanted to, he could demanded any number of further actionsof Mr. Tvedtenluvsteen and be completely within the law. He provably didn'tthough, because the world is full dam clowns and the best thing to do, incases such as these, is try and understand everyone's dam point of view anddo your dam job. JimH from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Mar 25 15:34:30 2002 g2PLYU411080 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:34:30 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:15:14 -0600 Subject: RE: public interest in bamboo I'm not so sure that casting is a "what", I think is is more a "where". Ifind that it is a place that I escape to whenever I need to forget for abrief instant that I am a husband, or an employee, or a dad, or a son, or alawn care dude, or an automechanic, or a ..... Amabilis lets me sink deeper and more rapidly into this place. TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 2:47 PM Subject: RE: public interest in bamboo Here are some excerpts [Miller, Troy] -- Snip -- what I am most curious about is what is casting and what isfishing????????? Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod MakerUpstream Custom Rods from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 25 15:49:06 2002 g2PLn5412216 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:49:05 -0600 Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:48:55 PST Subject: straighening does anyone use a cloths iron to straighten rod blanks you use steam? which setting do you use, polyester,cotton, wool or linen? timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from caneman@clnk.com Mon Mar 25 18:21:50 2002 g2Q0Ln421928 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:21:49 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:19:04 -0600 Subject: rod article Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from dryfly@erols.com Mon Mar 25 18:59:12 2002 g2Q0xC423236 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:59:12 - ([208.58.194.28] helo=homeserver) id 16pfIs-0000GT-00; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:59:10 -0500 Subject: Re: rod article Sorry I wasted the time to read it. from jojo@ipa.net Mon Mar 25 19:10:56 2002 g2Q1At423754 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:10:55 -0600 helo=default) id 16pfU8-0005kn-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:10:49 -0500 Subject: Re: rod article Nunley, you shit stirrer. Reedwanker makes some good points, and ones thatperhaps neededclarification. There is another article, somewhere on the 'net, wherein theauthor makes the reverseclaim that all handplaning is inferior to machine tapering, and a host of otherinaccuracies. Onething about it, the author of that article at least had the testicular fortitudeto sign his ownname. Not that I blame the Reedwanker for not, under the circumstances. M-D Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Mar 25 19:16:12 2002 be forged)) g2Q1GB424062 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:16:11 - id ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:11:06 -0800 Rod Makers List Serve Subject: RE: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fl y anglers enquirer online) And just like the last cane rod article, it contains enough grains of truthto be dangerous, mixed in with gross inaccuracies, from which mr"weedwacker" (certainly seems like some kind of "whacker") proceeds tomakeinflammatory, false and inaccurate statements. One wonders if he is being subsidized by the plastic rod industry tosabotage consumer interest in bamboo rods. And he's too cowardly even take credit for his words. Christopher obuchowski -----Original Message----- Subject: rod article Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Mar 25 19:48:52 2002 g2Q1mp425001 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:48:51 - Subject: RE: rod article Well, Bob...I think we could have a few guesses as to who might propagatesuch messages. I was looking through many of the rodmaking books and canfind images of Leonard, Jordan, and Dickerson's planing set up. The bevelerwas a manufacturing device.I think the article is right on the money in many ways (taper duplication,etc...), but what was the point? It just seems nasty and cowardly to notsign your own name.Now to that message board.Bob Maulucci -----Original Message----- Subject: rod article Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from rmoon@ida.net Mon Mar 25 19:55:20 2002 g2Q1tJ425352 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:55:19 - Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fly anglers enquirer online) Guys. The identity of Reedwhacker is not that difficult to ascertain. He is along time rod builder, who has achieved a lasting stature among rod builders.He is however, a maker who does not waste an inordinate amout of time onhandplaning. I personally was a little offended by his attack on"non- professionals" particularly since one of those "non'professionals" hadjust recently given him a great accolade, Trouble is I don't want to get in themiddle of this; suffice it to say, that Weedshackers article was probablyintended to be controversial, and might better not have been written. "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote: And just like the last cane rod article, it contains enough grains of truthto be dangerous, mixed in with gross inaccuracies, from which mr"weedwacker" (certainly seems like some kind of "whacker") proceeds tomakeinflammatory, false and inaccurate statements. One wonders if he is being subsidized by the plastic rod industry tosabotage consumer interest in bamboo rods. And he's too cowardly even take credit for his words. Christopher obuchowski -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: rod article Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon from rmoon@ida.net Mon Mar 25 19:58:24 2002 g2Q1wN425593 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:58:24 - 0000 Subject: Re: addendum to my reply to rod article I rather think that the author of the article was not afraid to sign his name,It is more likely that the article was published anonymously by the editor.Ralph - http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Mon Mar 25 20:15:39 2002 g2Q2Fc426331 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:15:38 - Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:15:37 PST Subject: Re: rod article What's up with FlyAnglersOnline, do they have an axeto grind of some kind? Or, are they doing this tocause controversy and get readership as a result? Bill W.--- Bob Nunley wrote: Just thought some of you might be interested in thenew article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online atwww.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled,"Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 25 20:23:25 2002 g2Q2NP426697 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:23:25 - ,Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fly anglers enquirer online) C'mon Ralph, call a spade a spade, you know as well as i do that it wasTerry, who else would write such stuff?john "Ralph W. Moon" wrote: Guys. The identity of Reedwhacker is not that difficult to ascertain. He isalong time rod builder, who has achieved a lasting stature among rodbuilders.He is however, a maker who does not waste an inordinate amout of time onhandplaning. I personally was a little offended by his attack on"non-professionals" particularly since one of those "non'professionals" hadjust recently given him a great accolade, Trouble is I don't want to get inthemiddle of this; suffice it to say, that Weedshackers article was probablyintended to be controversial, and might better not have been written. "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote: And just like the last cane rod article, it contains enough grains of truthto be dangerous, mixed in with gross inaccuracies, from which mr"weedwacker" (certainly seems like some kind of "whacker") proceeds tomakeinflammatory, false and inaccurate statements. One wonders if he is being subsidized by the plastic rod industry tosabotage consumer interest in bamboo rods. And he's too cowardly even take credit for his words. Christopher obuchowski -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: rod article Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You canfindit on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Mon Mar 25 20:28:52 2002 g2Q2Sq427011 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:28:52 - Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:28:51 PST Subject: RE: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fl yanglers enquirer online) ,Rod Makers List Serve you know, the proof is in the puding so to speak andat least it's being talked about. that sure makespeople intrested and curious. it does get my hair up alittle but as my dad always said," if you chuck abrick into a pack of dogs you always know which onegets hit!". in this case there are alot of "anti's"doing alot of yelping. i think this person just did usall a favor. timothy--- "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD"wrote: And just like the last cane rod article, it containsenough grains of truthto be dangerous, mixed in with gross inaccuracies, from which mr"weedwacker" (certainly seems like some kind of"whacker") proceeds to makeinflammatory, false and inaccurate statements. One wonders if he is being subsidized by the plasticrod industry tosabotage consumer interest in bamboo rods. And he's too cowardly even take credit for hiswords. Christopher obuchowski -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: rod article Just thought some of you might be interested in thenew article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online atwww.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled,"Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from canazon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 25 20:37:16 2002 g2Q2bG427471 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:37:16 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16pgpf-00003d-00; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:37:07 -0500 Subject: Re: rod article bob,sounds like this guy is not making enough money from his business, sohe's gonna try and slam the competition. he is obviously envious of the factthat some people can build a rod and then have time to fish it.in another letter he suggests going on the list and using the searchengine to find out how long people have been making rods. i guess he musthave been around for quite awhile, and he wants to make sure you buy fromsomeone (him) who has a reputation or experience. he seems angry thatsomeone could have the "luxury of unlimited time" to make a rod.that's like telling Monet or Picasso your work is shit because it tookyou to long to paint it.mike kind of reminds me of our friend up in the northlands from rmoon@ida.net Mon Mar 25 20:40:39 2002 g2Q2ec427790 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:40:39 - Subject: Re: rod article I am sorry that I spoke before engaging the clutch. I was wrong in mypreviouspost indicating that I knew who the Reedwhacker was. I just didn't readcorrectly and now I am the dark as much as the rest of you. Please forgiveme. Ralph --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon from tausfeld@frontiernet.net Mon Mar 25 20:43:22 2002 g2Q2hM428100 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:43:22 - "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: rod article Great, a bunch of H-I class rods coming in the market....Maybe he'll sell them to big distributers, I imagine the top three sellerswould be:The Walmart, The K-Marts, and The Target. tom ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod article bob,sounds like this guy is not making enough money from his business, sohe's gonna try and slam the competition. he is obviously envious of the fact that some people can build a rod and then have time to fish it.in another letter he suggests going on the list and using the searchengine to find out how long people have been making rods. i guess he musthave been around for quite awhile, and he wants to make sure you buyfromsomeone (him) who has a reputation or experience. he seems angry thatsomeone could have the "luxury of unlimited time" to make a rod.that's like telling Monet or Picasso your work is shit because it took you to long to paint it.mike kind of reminds me of our friend up in the northlands from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Mar 25 20:58:33 2002 g2Q2wX428698 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:58:33 - Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fl yanglers enquirer online) No the author wasn't a "Wind from The North" but rather someone thatmayhave more years of rod making under his belt than the average age of thegroup here - And he did reflect some of the atitudes that he may have hadput in his face over the years - but what I think is being misunderstoodhere is that Ron is really talking to one or two individuals - and as Raplhso wisely pointed out - the people the article was focused to are few andare of the kind that won't read it.What you are witnessing is a fact of life - a slice of human - the bestexplanation I can see here without going into details is - the differencebetween a Hunter and the Sportsman - Ron was focusing his comments attheHunters of rod making - and trust me Ron isn't the only one that has seenthis rare species in the rodmaking community over the years - Fortunatelythe species is rare from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 25 21:00:57 2002 g2Q30v429045 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:00:57 - Subject: Re: rod article and that's why I think it was Ackland, QC wouldn't be bothered with thelist or the rodmaker's homepage. He's told me any number of times thathe never looks around at other maker's sites.john mike canazon wrote: bob,sounds like this guy is not making enough money from his business, sohe's gonna try and slam the competition. he is obviously envious of thefactthat some people can build a rod and then have time to fish it.in another letter he suggests going on the list and using the searchengine to find out how long people have been making rods. i guess he musthave been around for quite awhile, and he wants to make sure you buyfromsomeone (him) who has a reputation or experience. he seems angry thatsomeone could have the "luxury of unlimited time" to make a rod.that's like telling Monet or Picasso your work is shit because it tookyou to long to paint it.mike kind of reminds me of our friend up in the northlands from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Mon Mar 25 21:11:01 2002 g2Q3B0429690 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:11:00 - Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fl yanglers e... Wayne,With all do respect, what the heck are you talking about? Joseph A. Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536585-493-2637 from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Mar 25 21:12:52 2002 g2Q3Cq429902 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:12:52 - for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:38 - Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fly anglers e... I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Its all about content and promotion for those in the media business. When you have a limitedoperating budget there is not a more cost effective means of promotion than togenerate controversy in the absence of quality content. Seems as if Mr.Weedwacker's handlers have enabled him to accomplish this. In a message dated 03/25/2002 5:55:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,rmoon@ida.net writes: Guys. The identity of Reedwhacker is not that difficult to ascertain. He is along time rod builder, who has achieved a lasting stature among rod builders. He is however, a maker who does not waste an inordinate amout of time on handplaning. I personally was a little offended by his attack on"non- professionals" particularly since one of those "non'professionals" hadjust recently given him a great accolade, Trouble is I don't want to get in themiddle of this; suffice it to say, that Weedshackers article was probablyintended to be controversial, and might better not have been written."Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" wrote:And just like the last cane rod article, it contains enough grains of truthto be dangerous, mixed in with gross inaccuracies, from which mr"weedwacker" (certainly seems like some kind of "whacker") proceeds to makeinflammatory, false and inaccurate statements. One wonders if he is being subsidized by the plastic rod industry tosabotage consumer interest in bamboo rods. And he's too cowardly even take credit for his words. Christopher obuchowski -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: rod article Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You can find it on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- -http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon----------------------- Headers ----------------- ---------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (rly-yg03.mail.aol.com Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:55:47 -0500 rly- Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:55:34 -0500 g2Q1tV425394; g2Q1tJ425352 Received: (qmail 8676 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 01:55:18 -0000Received: from unknown (HELO ida.net) (208.141.176.31) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:55:17 -0700From: "Ralph W. Moon" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)X-Accept-Language: en CC: "'caneman@clnk.com'" ,Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fly anglers enquirer online)References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Mon Mar 25 21:13:33 2002 g2Q3DW400096 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:13:32 - Subject: Re: rod article It sure sounds like vintage Terry. Especially the dig in the FAOL bullitinboard about not buying a rod from anyone without a pedegree. With thedown-turn in the economy maybe some of those mean old hand planers aretaking sales from the real, true, machine-age professionals. Guys like Bob Summers and Ron QC are never going to be able to keep up withthe demand for their work because they have a great reputation and buildquality rods. Whatever the rest of us do they'll happily go along doingjust fine, thank you. But there are those folks out there that aren't happydoing their best. They want to run everybody else down in the bargain.Just be glad you don't have to live in their skin. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: rod article and that's why I think it was Ackland, QC wouldn't be bothered with thelist or the rodmaker's homepage. He's told me any number of times thathe never looks around at other maker's sites.john mike canazon wrote: bob,sounds like this guy is not making enough money from his business, so he's gonna try and slam the competition. he is obviously envious of the fact that some people can build a rod and then have time to fish it.in another letter he suggests going on the list and using the searchengine to find out how long people have been making rods. i guess he must have been around for quite awhile, and he wants to make sure you buy from someone (him) who has a reputation or experience. he seems angry thatsomeone could have the "luxury of unlimited time" to make a rod.that's like telling Monet or Picasso your work is shit because it took you to long to paint it.mike kind of reminds me of our friend up in the northlands from jojo@ipa.net Mon Mar 25 21:34:23 2002 g2Q3YM400926 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:34:22 -0600 helo=default) for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:34:21 -0500 Subject: Internal Security Here, y'all need something else to talk about. M-D Beware of the words 'internal security,' for they are the eternal cry of = Here, y'all need = talk about. M-D Beware of the words 'internal security,' for they are the eternal = -- Voltaire from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Mon Mar 25 22:07:10 2002 g2Q479401793 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:07:10 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16piD9-0002xN-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:05:27 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Melting Point of Nylon Maybe I can clear up some of the confusing results re the melting point of nylon. There are 2 types of nylon, which we call Type-6 and Type 6,6, the names referring to the chemical precursors. Most physical properties are similar, except for melting point. T-6,6 melts at 260C (500F) while T-6 melts at 215C (420F); either can melt a few degrees either way depending on specific production attributes. The simplest way of differentiating is to measure the melt point. T-6 begins to soften around 350F and begins to get sticky not far above, so if you get hold of some of that type you'll have a problem - and it comprises most of the world's production. Both have elasticity in the 20% range. Bottom line, cotton is safer to use. from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Mon Mar 25 22:20:03 2002 g2Q4K2402297 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:20:02 - Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:19:50 -0800 Tue, 26 Mar 2002 04:19:49 GMT Subject: Re: rod article FILETIME=[789389A0:01C1D47D] All- Without knowing EXACTLY who Reedwhacker is, perhaps we should sit on our thoughts regarding his or her identity and whatever agenda they may or may not have. "Hard tellin not knowin" Now as for as the article itself, I fail to see what good it does. It is generally negative, is combative in nature, uses sweeping generalizations, and fails to account for a lot of facts. In short, it's moronic and I'm surprised at some of you for even responding to it. I mean-read it! Read it 5 times! The more you read it, the worse it gets. The more you read it, the more ignorant and pathetic the author becomes. It's a farce. My beef is with "Lady-fisher." The fact that this beauty was allowed to hit the web at all is ludicrous. Is this supposed to be informative? Educational? Is it supposed to enrich our sport? What good does it do!!?? Ladyfisher, what exactly are you REALLY trying to acheive by posting this "article?" The only thing the article got right is that we, the "rodmakers of today", have indeed picked up the torch. In this time of "bigger and faster is better" we do carry on the "craft" of rodmaking that is virtuously inefficient, un- ecconomical and fallibly hand-made. Our rods will always have the patina that only human hands can leave. If I wanted something "professional", I'd buy a Sage. Lady-fisher, I would like you to know this. When a young flyfisher comes up to me at a TU event and asks me if he can try that "old timey cane rod," I'll say "Yes you can, I made it myself last week. I made it to fish with. Try it, maybe you'll like it!" instead of "No way kid! Get lost! I waited 3 years for that puppy, it cost me $2000, and do I look crazy to you?" I am a rodmaker and I make available a facet of the sport that had almost become unattainable to the average fly-fisher, however "un-traditional" my methods may be. I perpetuate the sport and it's history. What you do for the sport is unclear to me. Shame on you for printing that junk. Eamon Christopher Lee476 Summerhaven NorthEast Syracuse, NY 13057H- 315-637-4943W-315-422-6161 I am not a coward and will back up 100% of my words with 100% accountability. _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Mar 25 22:46:34 2002 g2Q4kX403263 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:46:33 - "Rod Makers List Serve" Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called national fl yanglers enquirer online) Isn't it interesting how - different folks read the same article andcome away with such different meaning - The article - written by whoever -brought back a memory to me that - besides myself - John Z and a coupleothers may only have seen. I don't see it as a slam to hand planers per se.I see it more as a challenge for a few to come back closer to reality. Andhere I suspect that I am treading on dearly thin ice. 14 years ago there wasthis person - the in your face type person - that made rods - the rods hemade were classics - as John and I were told - and we were also told that wewere only good enough to be 'Nipping at his heels" - as if John and I weretrailing the pack. The biggest difference that I saw - between this personand the others - was common sense - and how the product was beingrepresented to the public.See - I didn't read the article as a direct slam to those of us thathand plane - but rather as a reality check as to how we perceive what theend product is - most of us have a common sense vision of what that endproduct is - and that others around us have that same common sense ofthatas well. What I read was this. That for some reason the author felt thatthey had faced enough folks trying to represent their product to be morethan what it truly might be - enough so that they felt they needed to speakout. Is that a commonplace situation - I would hope not Yet if you searchthe archives this same thread has occassionally been talked about on thelist - however in a more gentle way And yes - there are familiar sounds tothis - those that come from thenorth as a cold chill in the winter. By the way - the maker that John and Iwere 'challenged' by disappeared many years ago - when asked no one seemstohave seen him. So my example of the Hunter and Sportsman - the Sportsman has abalancedsense of his sport - he is well aware of what the realities afield are - andhe is willing to put back as much as he takes if not more - the Hunter isout to takes takes takes - and his methods and actions seem to distancethemselves and others - Geeeee Does someone feel a draft ???? As I opened with - the article triggered a real life experience - from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Mon Mar 25 22:58:38 2002 g2Q4wb403688 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:58:37 - id g2Q4wS103815 for ; Tue, 26 Mar2002 13:58:28 +0900 (JST) id NAA20786 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 200213:58:27 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: rod article Hello Friends, Why are you worry about that kind of article?There are such guys anywhere in this world who tries todistinguish oneself from others. I don't think the real professionalism is the matter of how to make butresults ofhow much one devoted time on it, how deeply one considered to enhanceone'sproduct. Considering that a tremendous numbers of rodmakers are making bamboorodsnow in the world,rodmaking is getting near to the world of every day's cooking among ourwives.Can you say that my wife is the best cook in the world as she usesmicrowaveoven? I rather point if she still loves me (?), if her food is good enough... Max========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 25 23:09:04 2002 g2Q592404145 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:09:02 -0600 Subject: Re: rod article When I finished reading the article I thought his name was Reedwanker but thought that was just too good to be true so had to read it again, too bad.He has made a point about mills etc though I've always been unable to see why it mattered if the rod made in a form is slightly different to the original unless you wanted an exact copy. Even if it only agrees with the original at every 5 inches and that's nonsense in most cases anyhow if the rod made is a good rod so what? If all you're doing is using the taper to make a rod in a form and the rod turns out to be a good casting and fishing rod so what if it's not exactly the same as the original??I simply don't understand this argument against forms, the rods turn out fine so what's the beef? As for comparing rodmakers and "true rodmakers" with sailors who are them selves compared with people who like messing about in boats I know a lot of people who enjoy "messing about in boats" who've messed about in themdoing solo world circumnavigations and Sydney To Hobart races. I bet Reewhacker gets sea sick in a boat on a dry dock. TY At 07:09 PM 3/25/02 -0600, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Nunley, you shit stirrer. Reedwanker makes some good points, and onesthat perhaps neededclarification. There is another article, somewhere on the 'net, wherein the author makes the reverseclaim that all handplaning is inferior to machine tapering, and a host of other inaccuracies. Onething about it, the author of that article at least had the testicular fortitude to sign his ownname. Not that I blame the Reedwanker for not, under the circumstances. M-D From: "Bob Nunley" Just thought some of you might be interested in the new article aboutrodmakers on FlyAnglers Online at www.flyanglersonline.com . You can findit on the front page of the site, entitled, "Traditional Rod Making?" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Forks Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Mon Mar 25 23:14:07 2002 g2Q5E7404441 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:14:07 -0600 ([209.179.148.97] helo=computer) id 16pjHT-0004Tr-00; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:14:00 -0800 Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo Actually it would be interesting to talk to the Steffen Bros. of Arizona.They make and manufacture their own graphite rods. Blanks and all. I haveone and it is one of the few graphite rods I even consider fishing. Adam Vigil----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: public interest in bamboo I'm a little more practical than most of theseanswers. If I was able to manipulate tapers withgaphite as easily as I can with bamboo, I would bemaking graphite rods. Long ago I decided that mostrods were not casting the way I would have liked themto. I didn't want to leave it up to some designer in arod company to decide what kind of taper I liked. Iactually looked into what it would take to make agraphite rod myself. The oven, getting the prepregmaterial, the cellophane tape wrapping machine, allwas do-able, but the mandrels were just aboutimpossible to make myself. And they were so expensiveto have them made that I wouldn't be able to have onemade just to see how a rod made with it would cast.Too expensive to experiment with. Bamboo allows me tomade a one-off taper, and if I don't like it, no bigdeal, another blank in the fireplace. I guess my short answer is bamboo allows me to designmy own tapers. Darryl Hayashida __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awardshttp://movies.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Mar 25 23:29:09 2002 g2Q5T7405059 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:29:08 - Subject: Re: rod article - yellow journalism (should be called nationalfl y anglers enquirer online) Well that may be well and good but it doesn't read like that. I reads like if you use forms you're having yourself and others on. That's total BS.IMHO the object of the game is to make decent rods one way or another be that using a sausage making machine like TA's or Sistine Chappel like rods one at a time.If the author of this had a beef with a few people on a personal level attempting to make readers of his message believe anybody using forms is putting out inferior rods for a few reasons but primarily because the tapers are not exactly correct is bad.Like I wrote before, an exact copy of the original taper (ie, 1 inch or 3 inch centres) is not required IF the rod built on 5 inch centres is a good one and that seems to be the case in almost every taper you choose to lookat. Who ever the person and whatever the reason I'm not terribly impressed with either. Sounds more to me like dealers wanting to drive up the price of existing original maker's rods and certain current maker's rods who havemills.If that's not the case, I'm completely bamboozled as to the purpose of the story. TY At 09:53 PM 3/25/02 -0500, Wayne Cattanach wrote: No the author wasn't a "Wind from The North" but rather someone thatmayhave more years of rod making under his belt than the average age of thegroup here - And he did reflect some of the atitudes that he may have hadput in his face over the years - but what I think is being misunderstoodhere is that Ron is really talking to one or two individuals - and as Raplhso wisely pointed out - the people the article was focused to are few andare of the kind that won't read it.What you are witnessing is a fact of life - a slice of human - the bestexplanation I can see here without going into details is - the differencebetween a Hunter and the Sportsman - Ron was focusing his comments attheHunters of rod making - and trust me Ron isn't the only one that has seenthis rare species in the rodmaking community over the years - Fortunatelythe species is rare /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Forks Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Mon Mar 25 23:43:36 2002 g2Q5hZ405561 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:43:35 - id g2Q5hWl18804; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:43:32 +0900 (JST) id OAA23569; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:43:31 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Question about grooved planes.... Gary, My question is; what is the purpose of grooving the bottom of planes used in rodmaking? I see that some rod builders use grooved planes and othersdon't. Why? Are the forms set up differently when using grooved planes asopposed to non-grooved planes? I am an user of grooved plane and love it. The goodness of grooved plane are; 1. As its brade does not scratch the surface of planing form, the number ofhoning gets less.In other words, you can plane more strips by the same brade.When using a normal plane, I honed a brade once or twice for planing onestrip.Now I hone once for 6 strips. 2. At the very last stage of planing a strip, both sides of the plane solewill slip on the surface of form.As a result, the plane will not roll. It will result in a flat surface of astrip. This will dramatically reduceschips (gaps) between strips when they are glued. 3. As the brade will not touch with the planing form surface, it allows touse a wooden planing form which iseasier to make than steel form. Down side are; 1. Since the brade is not touching to the surface of planing form, thedimension of the stripbecomes a little bit thicker. To avoid this, it is needed to adjust the PFsetting to the effects, a little narrower. 2. Grooved plane is priced higher than normal plane if you buy it.To make grooved sole youself, you can glue two thin metal plates on bothsides of the sole. Hope this helps. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Mar 26 00:22:35 2002 g2Q6MY406709 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:22:34 -0600 ([209.179.149.38] helo=computer) id 16pkLo-0003KO-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:22:33 -0800 Subject: an analogy of the FAOL article Hi I am Henry Ford weedwhacker is my nickname, I know a lot about making cars, I invented them for goodness sake. I =developed the assembly line and I know how to make a car in the = I have looked at several car manufactures websites. I can not believe =their claims. They say things like we make the best car, we make them =one at a time. This gives the erroneous impression that hand built cars =are better. I mean where do these guys at Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls =Royce get off saying they make cars. I invented the car and if it is not =made my way then it is hardly a car but merely a sad attempt of a copy. Now a Model T is a car, great paint job and state of the art in =suspension. I mean come on...these guy claim to make a car but a car is =a Ford. Their cars are not made like a Ford, do not drive like a Ford =and because of this they are not a good car, but merely a sad attempt =to copy what I have made. According to all the information about car makers from greats like "ME" =cars are made on an assembly line. I mean how can Lamborghini or Rolls =Royce claim to be making a car when they are doing it by hand? They =claim to keep tolerances close but come on! They don't even have =machines putting the panels on the bodies!. Cars were manufactured in the old days by assembly line workers who had =to make a living from producing them to survive. Making a car by hand is =an amateurs attempt and no serious car manufacture would ever attempt to=do it. Are they car makers? Sure, just as those who "write articles