from bob@downandacross.com Thu Apr 11 16:11:18 2002 g3BLBF427988 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:11:15 -0500 11 Apr 2002 17:10:00 -0400 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: RE: Planing Forum Steve:It is $20 (no increase), and I need to get my butt in gear and send Ron acheck.Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:30 PM Subject: Planing Forum Is it still just $15 for a subscription? Regards, Steve Steve: Bob TrauthweinSent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:30 = Forum subscription? Steve from jcbyrd@direct-pest.com Thu Apr 11 19:01:48 2002 g3C01l403860 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:01:47 -0500 by direct-pest.com [208.27.26.103] for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:16:44 -0400 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Wandashin Star Splitter has finished some of the Star Splitters that we were talking about =earlier on the list. And, to let you all know a little more about Tom, he worked at Winston = all see Glen Brackett using in the video. One major advantage of these =splitters over the one's Glen uses, these have removable blades for =sharpening and to allow other configurations. These will split 18 strips with all the blades loaded. You can do =multiple configurations just by removing blades. Also, for those of you who had asked earlier on the mailing list, the =splitter you see on Richard Wolfe's website was made by Tom Wandashin. =The one Richard has only cuts a maximum of 13 strips. The 18 strip =splitter is a new concept. I am still trying to get a group order together. I have about 3 =commitments. Tom has agreed to sell these to us at $550.00 plus $25.00 = I know that some of you griped about the price, but if you look at it as =a permanent part of you tool inventory then you will realize that it is =an investment in a quality tool to make your rodmaking experience more =delightful.] Should you want to order one on this group plan, email me at =jcbyrd@direct- pest.com I want to get this order completed by the end of =April. Thanks Joe P.S. Standard disclaimers apply. No financial interest, etc. Just =want to get one of these tools myself and help others in the meantime. and a cigar in the other....."What a Great Life". Visit my bamboo Technologies has finished some of the Star Splitters that we were = earlier on the list. And, to let you all know a little more about Tom, he = Winston for years, and so he definitely knows about the star splitter = splitters over the one's Glen uses, these have removable blades for = and to allow other configurations. These will split 18 strips with all the blades = You can do multiple configurations just by removing blades. Also, for those of you who had asked earlier on the = 18 strip splitter is a new concept. I am still trying to get a group order = = I know that some of you griped about the price, but = look at it as a permanent part of you tool inventory then you will = it is an investment in a quality tool to make your rodmaking experience = delightful.] Should you want to order one on this group plan, = jcbyrd@direct- to get this order completed by the end of April. Thanks Joe in the meantime. http://www.direct-pest.com/r= from caneman@clnk.com Thu Apr 11 19:10:11 2002 g3C0AA404221 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:10:10 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:07:17 -0500 Subject: TeSt Is it this slow in here, or did I get bumped? R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Is it this slow in here, or did I get bumped? R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Apr 11 19:36:02 2002 g3C0a1405122 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:36:01 - Subject: Re: Books.. In a message dated 4/11/02 9:59:30 AM Central Daylight Time, partrick@intrex.net writes: Iwill have to look at that, but I am badly enamored with about anything John Gierach has written! I am a HUGE fan of his! Particularly since he and I have a lot of things in common, He calls himself "an Aging Hippy" I am an Aging Hippy, He graduated with a degree in Philosophy, I was a philosophy major until I got so philosophical and asked what the heck I was doing in college and dropped out. Also, i like his writing style! He even is informative! "Good FLies" is a good book! But so is "Rat Lake", and the rest too mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Apr 11 19:54:10 2002 g3C0s9405752 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:54:09 - Subject: Re: leonard baby Catskill In a message dated 4/11/2 12:36:46 PM, rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: Bob, This was measured over varnish a long time ago. You will have to figure out ferrule lengths, as did not note them. Section length is 28 1/2" tip0- .0685- .08010-.09515-.10420-.12225-.128at ferrule -.137 midat ferrule - .1405- .14310-.15515-.16920-.17425-.183at ferrule .190 buttat ferrule .1955 -.19810-.20515-.21320-.340 3 3/8" reel seat, .650 dia; 4 1/2" grip, .700 dia at reel seat, .750 in center, .250 at rod shaft. from edriddle@mindspring.com Thu Apr 11 20:22:44 2002 g3C1Mh406554 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:22:43 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16vplt-00000q-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:22:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Books.. I read Camuto's "..Blue Ridge" book several years ago (still have it), and Iagree it's a good read. His getting over the fear of snakes and blackbears...( constantly looking down and over his shoulder) is the messagethat stuck with me. I've read and have retained all of Gierach's books(except the last couple) and have enjoyed them very much; especially, "FlyFishing Small Streams" and (surprise!!) "Fishing Bamboo". I recommend Harry Middleton's books starting with "The Earth is Enough"followed by "On the Spine of Time" and "Rivers of Memory". He left us toosoon. Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Books.. In a message dated 4/11/02 9:59:30 AM Central Daylight Time,partrick@intrex.net writes: Ridge." What beautiful, lyrical prose... come to think of it... I need to re-read that.... >> Iwill have to look at that, but I am badly enamored with about anything John Gierach has written! I am a HUGE fan of his! Particularly since he and Ihave a lot of things in common, He calls himself "an Aging Hippy" I am an Aging Hippy, He graduated with a degree in Philosophy, I was a philosophymajor until I got so philosophical and asked what the heck I was doing incollege and dropped out. Also, i like his writing style! He even isinformative! "Good FLies" is a good book! But so is "Rat Lake", and therest too mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Apr 11 21:23:55 2002 g3C2Ns407907 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:23:54 - Subject: Re: Books.. Since you mentioned Gierach, I was wondering what listers think of his book "Fishing Bamboo". I just finished reading it and I thought it was a good read. A couple of excerpts that jumped out: p. 47 "The difference between a bad taper and and a good taper you justdont get is pretty hard to describe. I'll say that some of the Paul Young parabolic rods are sort of beyond me, probably because they're toodemanding, but if I fool with one long enough it will sooner or later show me how its supposed to work, and it works gloriously. Trouble is, I want a rod that allows for a little more slop". p. 33 "But then there are also lots of rod makers who meticulously hand plane their splines using a planing form. Builders who work this way say it makes a difference: that hand planing follows the grain in the bamboo more closely, so you dont get fibers that are sawn off abruptly at the edges of the rods flat splines. They say the action of a hand planed rod is more fluid and that the method is more respectful of the material. A maker who hand planes his rods told me recently, "With a milling machine, the bamboo comes off in chunks and sawdust. With a plane it domes off in one slowcurl." p. 86 "The one thing ive learned is that the price of a rod doesnt reflect necessarily its real value. Ill never forget the day I got to cast a real, rod Id ever gotten my hands on and when I walked out on the owner lawn with it and began to cast, I thought the sky would open up, a shaft of light would descent, and everything would suddently become clear. What became clearwas that I was casting a perfectly serviceable 6-weight rod, maybe a little on the slow side for my taste." Kyle In a message dated 04/11/2002 5:36:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Lazybee45@aol.com writes: In a message dated 4/11/02 9:59:30 AM Central Daylight Time, partrick@intrex.net writes:Ridge." What beautiful, lyrical prose... come to think of it... I need to re-read that.... >>Iwill have to look at that, but I am badly enamored with about anything John Gierach has written! I am a HUGE fan of his! Particularly since he and I have a lot of things in common, He calls himself "an Aging Hippy" I am an Aging Hippy, He graduated with a degree in Philosophy, I was a philosophy major until I got so philosophical and asked what the heck I was doing in college and dropped out. Also, i like his writing style! He even is informative! "Good FLies" is a good book! But so is "Rat Lake", and the rest toomark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.comorhttp://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.htmlHand crafted items made to order! - ---------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xh03.mx.aol.com (rly-xh03.mail.aol.com Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:36:44 -0500 rly- Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:36:30 -0400 g3C0aP405166; Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com g3C0a1405122 Received: from Lazybee45@aol.com From: Lazybee45@aol.comMessage-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:35:38 EDTSubject: Re: Books.. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from KyleDruey@aol.com Thu Apr 11 21:26:54 2002 g3C2Qr408131 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:26:53 - for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:26:40 - Subject: Polishing Varnish List, What are some of the ways you recommend finishing off an oil-based spar varnish job and putting a good polish on it? Kyle from channer@frontier.net Thu Apr 11 21:51:41 2002 g3C2pf408948 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:51:41 - for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:51:59 - Subject: Re: Polishing Varnish Kyle, Leave it alone if possible, if you have some flaws to rub out, I like3-M's Finesse-It II and Perfect-It II rubbing and polishing compounds.john KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: List, What are some of the ways you recommend finishing off an oil-based sparvarnish job and putting a good polish on it? Kyle from dongreife@hotmail.com Thu Apr 11 22:31:42 2002 g3C3Vf410148 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:31:41 - Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:31:36 -0700 HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:31:36 GMT Subject: Re: silk thread size A FILETIME=[8CAB8FC0:01C1E1D2] John,,If memory serves me right,,most silk sizes we would find ofinterest are measured in some dumb measurement called denier,,and theseare 50 and 100. These numbers correspond to sizes "00" and "000". Size"00" is just a tad smaller that size "A" nylon. Size "000" silk makes a reallynice wrap for cane ( or plastic) rods. Don Greife wraps on bamboo 00)? thanks, Join the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from bennetts@cybermesa.com Thu Apr 11 22:32:20 2002 g3C3WH410250 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:32:17 - Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Don, Could you please tell me more about the "SiC PSA micro-abrasives"? Thanks, Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Mark, Everything in the package is made of metal. The honung jig is very well made and works well. The angle guide is also made of metal. How accurate is it? I have no idea,but it does give you a place to start. I use the 15, 5 & 0.5 micron SiC PSA micro-abrasives mounted on a glassblock to hone the edge. I've found a shot of WD-40 on the abrasive helpskeep it clean. Having the secondary bevel speeds up the touch-up sharping, cutting lessmetal on the blade. I'm pleased with the whole system.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 6:30 AMSubject: Re: Honing Jigs Harry, According to the web site, it included the jig, angle guide andinstructions. from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Thu Apr 11 22:34:33 2002 g3C3YW410586 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:34:32 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16vrna-0007rR-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:32:32 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Provo River Anybody in the SLC area? Will it be worth the hassle of taking gear for one day, considering the airline situation? from bob@downandacross.com Thu Apr 11 22:39:38 2002 g3C3db410981 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:39:38 - Subject: RE: Polishing Varnish I use Meguire's #7 and then follow with #9. I think one is label "ShowroomHand Glaze" and the other "Swirl Remover." I bought my supply at the localPep Boys automotive supply store. I like the results. If you sand out somenasties with 1500, you can get the shine back. I really do not worry as muchabout dust anymore because I know it is manageable afterwards anyway.Cautious, but not crazy about it. No nylon running suits here (ala JackHowell's).Bob PS., The 3M Finesse It and Perfect It polishes work well too, but I have notused them personally. -----Original Message----- Subject: Polishing Varnish List, What are some of the ways you recommend finishing off an oil-based sparvarnish job and putting a good polish on it? Kyle from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 11 23:23:57 2002 g3C4Nt411982 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:23:55 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Books.. It's just one man's opinion and much of it is based on who he sees as having most of the answers as far as rodmaking goes.Most on this list would be hand planing (I think) and would like to agree with p.33 but the short grain theory is rubbish. It comes from the true fact that riven wood that is turned to make chair legs such as Windsor chairs is a LOT stronger than sawn because grain will run out in sawn timber.Bamboo when used in rods as most people make them now isn't really likethat. First, it isn't wood so the "grain" runs straight between nodes and any kinks and doglegs happen from node to node not the bamboo between them. There are no branches on the original growing bamboo on only one side as a tree has them and no bends and twists in the way the bamboo grew as a tree does. True the bamboo does not grow straight as an arrow but it's muchmore straight than 90% of any hardwood tree you'd ever see out side of a rainforrest.After splitting any bends and dog legs etc are straightened one way or another before being planed or milled so the "grain" is pretty straight from here on.When the long strands of whatever it is "grain" for want of the right name reaches the node it sort of bumps and bends but remains intact so a straightened spline planed or milled it makes no difference unless you're starting off with a very wide piece of bamboo, milling it parallel then tapering it.Doing it this way there is a very good chance you'd have splines that do have "grain" run out but even then the nodes are so strong it's hard to see any strength problems occurring. p.86 It cuts both ways. Great looking lousy rods and poor looking fishing instruments. Tony At 10:23 PM 4/11/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Since you mentioned Gierach, I was wondering what listers think of his book"Fishing Bamboo". I just finished reading it and I thought it was a goodread. A couple of excerpts that jumped out: p. 47 "The difference between a bad taper and and a good taper you justdontget is pretty hard to describe. I'll say that some of the Paul Youngparabolic rods are sort of beyond me, probably because they're toodemanding,but if I fool with one long enough it will sooner or later show me how itssupposed to work, and it works gloriously. Trouble is, I want a rod thatallows for a little more slop". p. 33 "But then there are also lots of rod makers who meticulously handplane their splines using a planing form. Builders who work this way say itmakes a difference: that hand planing follows the grain in the bamboo moreclosely, so you dont get fibers that are sawn off abruptly at the edges ofthe rods flat splines. They say the action of a hand planed rod is morefluid and that the method is more respectful of the material. A maker whohand planes his rods told me recently, "With a milling machine, the bamboocomes off in chunks and sawdust. With a plane it domes off in one slowcurl." p. 86 "The one thing ive learned is that the price of a rod doesnt reflectnecessarily its real value. Ill never forget the day I got to cast a real, rod Id ever gotten my hands on and when I walked out on the owner lawnwithit and began to cast, I thought the sky would open up, a shaft of light woulddescent, and everything would suddently become clear. What became clearwasthat I was casting a perfectly serviceable 6-weight rod, maybe a little onthe slow side for my taste." Kyle In a message dated 04/11/2002 5:36:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Lazybee45@aol.com writes: In a message dated 4/11/02 9:59:30 AM Central Daylight Time,partrick@intrex.net writes: Ridge." What beautiful, lyrical prose... come to think of it... I need to re-read that.... >> Iwill have to look at that, but I am badly enamored with about anything John Gierach has written! I am a HUGE fan of his! Particularly since he and I have a lot of things in common, He calls himself "an Aging Hippy" I am an Aging Hippy, He graduated with a degree in Philosophy, I was a philosophymajor until I got so philosophical and asked what the heck I was doing incollege and dropped out. Also, i like his writing style! He even isinformative! "Good FLies" is a good book! But so is "Rat Lake", and therest too mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xh03.mx.aol.com (rly-xh03.mail.aol.com 0411203644; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:36:44 -0500 rly- 0411203630; Thu, 11Apr 2002 20:36:30 -0400 g3C0aP405166; Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com g3C0a1405122 Received: from Lazybee45@aol.com From: Lazybee45@aol.comMessage-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:35:38 EDTSubject: Re: Books.. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from homes-sold@attbi.com Thu Apr 11 23:31:59 2002 g3C4Vw412361 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:31:58 - Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:31:52 +0000 Subject: Re: leonard baby Catskill What is the line wt for this rod?TIA, Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: leonard baby Catskill In a message dated 4/11/2 12:36:46 PM, rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes: Bob, This was measured over varnish a long time ago. You will have to figureout ferrule lengths, as did not note them. Section length is 28 1/2" tip0- .0685- .08010-.09515-.10420-.12225-.128at ferrule -.137 midat ferrule - .1405- .14310-.15515-.16920-.17425-.183at ferrule .190 buttat ferrule .1955 -.19810-.20515-.21320-.340 3 3/8" reel seat, .650 dia; 4 1/2" grip, .700 dia at reel seat, .750 incenter, .250 at rod shaft. from homes-sold@attbi.com Thu Apr 11 23:49:55 2002 g3C4nt413905 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:49:55 - Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:49:49 +0000 Subject: Fw: Honing Jigs Scott, Developed for industrial use "SiC PSA micro-abrasives" are an abrasive onmylar with a sticky backing. 15 micron = 1000x, 5 micron = 2500x, .5micron= 9000x. Good stuff.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Don, Could you please tell me more about the "SiC PSA micro-abrasives"? Thanks, Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Mark, Everything in the package is made of metal. The honung jig is very well made and works well. The angle guide is also made of metal. How accurate is it? I have no idea,but it does give you a place to start. I use the 15, 5 & 0.5 micron SiC PSA micro-abrasives mounted on a glassblock to hone the edge. I've found a shot of WD-40 on the abrasive helpskeep it clean. Having the secondary bevel speeds up the touch-up sharping, cutting lessmetal on the blade. I'm pleased with the whole system.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 6:30 AMSubject: Re: Honing Jigs Harry, According to the web site, it included the jig, angle guide andinstructions. from bennetts@cybermesa.com Fri Apr 12 00:49:12 2002 g3C5nB416387 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:49:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Don, Do you know where I can get some? Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fw: Honing Jigs Scott, Developed for industrial use "SiC PSA micro-abrasives" are an abrasive onmylar with a sticky backing. 15 micron = 1000x, 5 micron = 2500x, .5 micron = 9000x. Good stuff.Don from ddeloach@pcisys.net Fri Apr 12 01:53:36 2002 g3C6ra417314 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:53:36 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:53:34 -0600 env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Guillermo's Leaders I just rec'd my furled leaders from Guillermo via John K and boy do theylook great...very high quality I can't wait to cast em tomorrow on theArkansas recommended? Seems to me that with the softer turnover that longertippetsmight not do so well, especially in wind. thoughts?ThxDon from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Apr 12 02:08:06 2002 g3C785417797 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:08:05 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Guillermo's Leaders It will turn over a looong tippet with ease and presision, even inwind........danny> For those w/ experience with these leaders, how long of atippet is recommended? Seems to me that with the softer turnover that longertippetsmight not do so well, especially in wind. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Fri Apr 12 02:19:05 2002 g3C7J4418207 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:19:04 -0500 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:18:59 -0700 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:18:50 GMT Subject: Re: silk thread size A FILETIME=[507E6340:01C1E1F2] Something else to remember is how flat the thread lays on the rod. Seems to have something to do with the twist of the thread. While Naples might have more wraps in a given space than say BC 'A' I have found that the BC will fill with fewer coats that the Naples. It seems to flatten out like floss. Just another variable to fuss over.A.J. From: "Eamon Lee" Subject: Re: silk thread size ADate: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:56:54 -0400 I love using Size A Silk, especially vintage Belding-Corticelli, Paragon,Richardson, etc...The only problem is nailing a color that you can get abunch of. ($$$) It's easy to work with and I usually tip with Naples or Gossamer. Get onebay, but be warned, bidding against those grizzled sewing chicks can bebrutal! Eamon _________________________________________________________________MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _________________________________________________________________Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 12 04:36:10 2002 g3C9aA419679 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 04:36:10 -0500 ;Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:36:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Scott,Got mine from http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp search for item#54K93.02There is a lot of other information on the product there. Mounted mine on aglass block and use the honing guide on the same page of the catalog. The Sharpening System is item# 05M02.10 Unlike Harry, I don't have any problems using the Angle Guide, I have 3hands and a lot of determination :>)Don ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Don, Do you know where I can get some? Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fw: Honing Jigs Scott, Developed for industrial use "SiC PSA micro-abrasives" are an abrasive onmylar with a sticky backing. 15 micron = 1000x, 5 micron = 2500x, .5 micron = 9000x. Good stuff.Don from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Apr 12 06:17:23 2002 g3CBHM420837 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:17:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Guillermo's Leaders A few feet at least.These really are good leaders. I actually like tying my own but it seems a bit pointless with these around. They work well and don't cost much either. Tony At 12:51 AM 4/12/02 -0600, Don DeLoach wrote: I just rec'd my furled leaders from Guillermo via John K and boy do theylook great...very high quality I can't wait to cast em tomorrow on theArkansas recommended? Seems to me that with the softer turnover that longertippetsmight not do so well, especially in wind. thoughts?ThxDon /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from pabix@aol.com Fri Apr 12 06:43:48 2002 g3CBhl421339 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:43:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Guillermo's Leaders How do you go about getting some? How do you go about gettingsome? from channer@frontier.net Fri Apr 12 07:12:38 2002 g3CCCb421930 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:12:37 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:12:39 -0600 Subject: "shimmers" Guys;The "shimmers", as I call them, you know, micro bubbles, whatever, aremaking me crazy!So far I've tried hot varnish, a drop of thinner on themfirst, 2 coats of Damar varnish followed by another of spar while stillwet, flooding the wraps with varnish then hitting them again in as soonas the first coat soaks in, all to no avail. While each of these hashelped some, the bubbles just won't go away! I mostly use 3/0 YLI, andfind that MOW causes the least problems with it, but I'm wondering ifanyone else has had any outstanding success with any particularcombinations of thread and varnish. Please don't tell me that I'm goingto have to break down and learn how to get along with Gossamer or spend10 bucks a drop on some special varnish formula! And why doesn't nylonget these bubbles when you put epoxy on it, and it does when I usevarnish? I've been starring at G rods till I'm cross eyed, and I don'tsee shimmers in them at all.Frustrated in Durango from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 12 07:28:42 2002 g3CCSf422423 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:28:41 -0500 12 Apr 2002 08:28:29 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: leonard baby Catskill Don - To the best of my recollection it was a 4 weight, but it might have beena 3, also. I never cast the rod, just did some repair work, and got themeasurements in the process. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Apr 12 07:32:13 2002 g3CCWA422660 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:32:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Guillermo's Leaders Martin at"Jojo DeLancier" is doing them in the US I believe. TY At 07:42 AM 4/12/02 -0400, pabix@aol.com wrote: How do you go about getting some? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Apr 12 07:59:46 2002 g3CCxj423426 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:59:45 -0500 g3CCxgO28548; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:59:42 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: "shimmers" Just a thought,It works on Epoxy. Run a hair dryer over the wrap after applying thevarnish. This warms the trapped air and makes it come to the surface andoutof the epoxy.What I do with the Gudebrod finish (water base varnish) I use is saturatethe wrap then wipe the wrap with a paper towel. That removes the excessfinish. This leaves the wrap real smooth. I don't get any fuzzies from thepaper towel. It should work with regular varnish too.I also use 3/0 YLI thread for most rods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com channer wrote: Guys;The "shimmers", as I call them, you know, micro bubbles, whatever, aremaking me crazy!So far I've tried hot varnish, a drop of thinner on themfirst, 2 coats of Damar varnish followed by another of spar while stillwet, flooding the wraps with varnish then hitting them again in as soonas the first coat soaks in, all to no avail. While each of these hashelped some, the bubbles just won't go away! I mostly use 3/0 YLI, andfind that MOW causes the least problems with it, but I'm wondering ifanyone else has had any outstanding success with any particularcombinations of thread and varnish. Please don't tell me that I'm goingto have to break down and learn how to get along with Gossamer or spend10 bucks a drop on some special varnish formula! And why doesn't nylonget these bubbles when you put epoxy on it, and it does when I usevarnish? I've been starring at G rods till I'm cross eyed, and I don'tsee shimmers in them at all.Frustrated in Durango from pabix@aol.com Fri Apr 12 08:13:07 2002 g3CDD7424032 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:13:07 -0500 Subject: Re: "shimmers" rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I used a rod turner and MOW spar thinned with mineral spirits. One part mineral s to four parts spar. I then applied the varnish as the rod turned using those stim-u-dent tooth picks that you can get at a drugstore. Put on about 4 coats and they come out like glass. I found that i had more "shimmers" when I tried to use a small sable brush. I will also add that there are a lot of suggestions in the archives on how to do this. I have only built 2 rods so far but this worked for me. I used a rod turner and MOW spar thinned withmineral spirits. One part mineral s to four parts spar. I then applied thevarnish as the rod turned using those stim-u-dent tooth picks that you canget at a drugstore. Put on about 4 coats and they come out like glass. Ifound that i had more "shimmers" when I tried to use a small sable brush. Iwill also add that there are a lot of suggestions in the archives on how to do from jojo@ipa.net Fri Apr 12 08:44:32 2002 g3CDiW425410 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:44:32 -0500 helo=default) id 16w1Lk-00034D-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:44:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Guillermo's Leaders Not quite. While Guillermo and I are good friends, and I try to help all I can,John Kenealy atmtnvalleyflies@mtnvalleyflies.com is handling all of the List requests. John isanother good friend.I surely do have some good friends on this List. ;o) M-D Martin at"Jojo DeLancier" is doing them in the US I believe. TY At 07:42 AM 4/12/02 -0400, pabix@aol.com wrote: How do you go about getting some? from horsesho@ptd.net Fri Apr 12 10:35:32 2002 g3CFZV402151 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:35:31 -0500 by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4195. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.912629 secs); 12 Apr 2002 15:35:31 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: leonard baby Catskill I think the Baby Catskill Bob is talking about is the 36L. 6' 2/2 1 oz. #1/2 line. Marty TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Don - To the best of my recollection it was a 4 weight, but it might havebeen a 3, also. I never cast the rod, just did some repair work, and got themeasurements in the process. from dati@selway.umt.edu Fri Apr 12 10:43:28 2002 g3CFhR402819 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:43:27 - for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:43:26 - Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law from partrick@intrex.net Fri Apr 12 10:44:43 2002 g3CFig402972 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:44:42 -0500 Subject: Stanley Tools Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the StanleyTool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a movethat is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing newbut rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will pay manymillions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand planeusers. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existenceand therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be saidthat it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them whenthey purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporationsdodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the commonman/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry from dmanders@telusplanet.net Fri Apr 12 11:03:24 2002 g3CG3N404843 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:03:23 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Subject: Why LN#2 rather than #1 Guys, Before I plunk my money down, why would I go for # 2 rather than # 1?Seems like a slighter shorter sole would make clamping/holding the stripeasier. Thanx, Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from James.Hatch@METROKC.GOV Fri Apr 12 11:04:11 2002 g3CG45404967 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:04:06 - id ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:04:04 -0700 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: off topic (pocket knives) this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I think Case knives are still good buy, though they typically run a bithigher than $20. I had an old Case favorite taken away at the airportrecently - my own fault, but boy was I bummed out to lose it. Jock -----Original Message----- Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law RE: off topic (pocket knives) I think Case knives are still good buy, though they = taken away at the airport recently - my own fault, but boy was I bummed = -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I =thought I would ask an pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Apr 12 11:21:21 2002 g3CGLK406312 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:21:20 -0500 Subject: RE: Stanley Tools Being a Connecticut resident, Home of Stanley Tools, my best guess would bethis is a corporate attempt at a tax break, the governor likes to do that,then plead poverty and raise our income tax, alcohol tax, cigarette tax, gastax, breathing air tax, your still alive today tax. But then, I'd move toBermuda if they offered me a job there!! Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: Stanley Tools Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the StanleyTool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a movethat is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing newbut rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will pay manymillions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand planeusers. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existenceand therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be saidthat it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them whenthey purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporationsdodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the commonman/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry from tim.watson@watsonsrods.co.uk Fri Apr 12 11:31:00 2002 g3CGUx406958 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:30:59 - ([195.72.168.228] helo=sysmtim) id 16w3w4-0006cD-00; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:30:05 +0100 Subject: RE: off topic (pocket knives) Without doubt my favourite is the Opinel range made in France (don't knowwho distributes in the US). Round wooden handles don't slip when wet.Rotating collar locks the blade in place and the steel of the blade can bebrought up to scalpel sharp and stays there, not like a lot of the knivesyou buy now. Good range of sizes as well.Tim -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: off topic (pocket knives) I think Case knives are still good buy, though they typically run a bithigher than $20. I had an old Case favorite taken away at the airportrecently - my own fault, but boy was I bummed out to lose it. Jock-----Original Message---- - Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use.Thanks,Darin Law RE: off topic (pocket knives) DocumentEmail Wi=thoutdoubt my favourite is the Opinel range made in France (don’t know =who Round Rotating collar locks the blade in place and the steel of the =blade canbe brought up to scalpel sharp and stays there, not like a lot of the =knives =of sizesas well. Ti=m -----OriginalMessage-----From:owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: 12 April 2002 =17:04 'dati@selway.umt.edu';RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: off topic =(pocketknives) I think Case knives are still =good buy, favorite taken away at the airport recently - my own fault, but boy was =I -----Original =Message----- Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since =it isFriday I thought I would ask an knife forgeneral = purpose use. Thanks, Darin Law from bassflyrodder@hotmail.com Fri Apr 12 11:32:30 2002 g3CGWT407156 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:32:29 -0500 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:32:20 -0700 HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:32:20 GMT rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Stanley Tools FILETIME=[9DE2D470:01C1E23F] Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure. I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claim they are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. How about a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete From: "Peter Van Schaack" Subject: RE: Stanley ToolsDate: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:23:40 -0400 Being a Connecticut resident, Home of Stanley Tools, my best guess wouldbethis is a corporate attempt at a tax break, the governor likes to do that,then plead poverty and raise our income tax, alcohol tax, cigarette tax, gastax, breathing air tax, your still alive today tax. But then, I'd move toBermuda if they offered me a job there!! Pete -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: Stanley Tools Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the StanleyTool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a movethat is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing newbut rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will pay manymillions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand planeusers. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existenceand therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be saidthat it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them whenthey purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporationsdodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the commonman/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Apr 12 11:34:04 2002 g3CGY3407451 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:34:03 -0500 0000 Subject: cheap strippers Okay people, I figured the subject line would get some attention. what is the cheapest stripping guide you guys would put on a cane rod rods up to now but have two that, well are not deserving of suchquality hardware(I know I'm a cheap skate). Any suggestions? tiaBrad from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Apr 12 11:39:17 2002 g3CGdG408134 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:39:16 -0500 g3CGdAO19560 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:39:11 -0500 Subject: Lathe Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Fri Apr 12 11:48:38 2002 g3CGmc408960 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:48:38 -0500 Subject: Re: cheap strippers Pac Bay makes a nice carboloy stripper for around $5. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: cheap strippers Okay people, I figured the subject line would get some attention. what is the cheapest stripping guide you guys would put on a cane rod rods up to now but have two that, well are not deserving of suchquality hardware(I know I'm a cheap skate). Any suggestions? tiaBrad from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Fri Apr 12 11:49:30 2002 g3CGnU409133 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:49:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Why LN#2 rather than #1 I find the #1 too small to hold comfortably. But I'm 6'3" with big =hands. Brian Subject: Why LN#2 rather than #1 Guys, Before I plunk my money down, why would I go for # 2 rather than # 1? =Seems like a slighter shorter sole would make clamping/holding the strip =easier. Thanx, Don I find the #1 too small to hold = But I'm 6'3" with big hands. Brian ----- Original Message ----- & Sandy Andersen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 = PMSubject: Why LN#2 rather than =#1Guys,Before I plunk my money down, why would I= =easier.Thanx,Donhttp://www= from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Fri Apr 12 11:54:27 2002 g3CGsQ409620 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:54:26 - , Subject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) RE: off topic (pocket knives)You can buy them at Garret Wade Tools for =less than $20. Nice knife. I like Victorianox Swiss Army Knives (more =than $20) and my old, 2 blade, Old Timer Muskrat Skinner (Haven't seen =one for sale in a while). Brian Subject: RE: off topic (pocket knives) Without doubt my favourite is the Opinel range made in France (don't =know who distributes in the US). Round wooden handles don't slip when =wet. Rotating collar locks the blade in place and the steel of the =blade can be brought up to scalpel sharp and stays there, not like a lot =of the knives you buy now. Good range of sizes as well. Tim -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: 12 April 2002 17:04 Subject: RE: off topic (pocket knives) I think Case knives are still good buy, though they typically run a =bit higher than $20. I had an old Case favorite taken away at the =airport recently - my own fault, but boy was I bummed out to lose it. =Jock RE: off topic =(pocket knives) DocumentEmail @font-face { font-family: Tahoma;}@page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt =90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.4pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.4pt; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT- SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso- style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow- orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT- SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso- pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast- font-family: "Times New Roman"}P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; FONT-FAMILY: ="Times New Roman"; mso- pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto}SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: =10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso- bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} You can buy them at Garret Wade Tools= $20) and my old, 2 blade, Old Timer Muskrat Skinner (Haven't seen one = in a while). Brian ----- Original Message ----- Tim Watson dati@selway.umt.edu ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 = PM knives) doubt my favourite is the Opinel range made in France (don=92t know = Rotating collar locks the blade in place and the steel of the = be brought up to scalpel sharp and stays there, not like a lot of the = range = as well.Tim Message-----From: =owner-rodmakers@wugate.w= Behalf Of Hatch, JamesSent: 12 April 2002 = RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: off topic knives) I think Case = an old Case favorite taken away at the airport recently - my own = Jock Sent: Friday, = knives) = I value your = since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic = What is the best $20.00 pocket knife forgeneral Thanks, from dongreife@hotmail.com Fri Apr 12 11:57:54 2002 g3CGvr410003 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:57:53 -0500 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:57:44 -0700 HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:57:44 GMT Subject: Re: cheap strippers FILETIME=[2A941AC0:01C1E243] Brad,,I like the old agetine/agate guides that were used on a lot of oldbamboo fly and casting rods for strippers. An old casting rod may have 4 or5 on it and can be found at the odd farm or yard sale for near nothing,,butyou gotta take them off the old rod and work on them a bit. Some weresoldered to metal casting rods using wire but they come off pretty easily attention. a cane rod the such suggestions? Join the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from dongreife@hotmail.com Fri Apr 12 12:03:35 2002 g3CH3Y410582 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:03:34 -0500 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:03:29 -0700 HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:03:29 GMT Subject: Re: Lathe FILETIME=[F7FBE010:01C1E243] Tony,, Grizzly has a mini lathe that is about that size and for about thesame price. All made in China. I have a Grizzly 9x19 and have often wishedthat I'd bought the smaller one. I'll send you the specs on the small one if you "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Chat with friends online, try MSNMessenger: ClickHere from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Apr 12 12:09:47 2002 g3CH9j411103 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:09:45 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) I got a really nice pocket knife for Christmas. Doesn't cost $20. But Ihave seen them on sale for about $30 at places like Sierra Trading Post (I'msure you can find them on E-Bay was well). It is a Kershaw with a 3" blade.The blade is half serrated and the tip edge is angled down at 45 degrees tothe point (instead of curving down like on most knifes). That angled tipmakes it easy to use just the tip for opening boxes and things. It also hasa stud on the blade so it can be opened with one hand and the lockingmechanism also allows the blade to be closed with one hand. Very light andI use it every day. Definitely would not make it on to a plane! The way I figure it, if you want a pocket full of tools, get a GerberMulti-tool. If you want a knife, don't bother with all the gadgets. Jason On 4/12/02 9:43 AM, "Darin J Law" wrote: I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law from gwclark.VERNMHP@utah.gov Fri Apr 12 12:10:21 2002 g3CHAJ411193 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:10:19 -0500 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:05:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe g3CHAK411196 Grizzly Industrial also sells the 7 X 12. Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908 Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" Tony Spezio 04/12/2002 10:39:42 AM >>> Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 12 12:23:11 2002 g3CHNB412370 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:23:11 - Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:23:02 +0000 Subject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) Darin,I don't know about $20.00 but I vote for the "Swiss Army Knife" The one witha couple of blades, cork screw, combo bottle opener/screw driver, canopener& reamer. No spoons and that other stuff.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 12 12:26:59 2002 g3CHQx412740 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:26:59 -0500 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:26:53 +0000 Subject: Re: cheap strippers Brad,There was this gal named Angela in East LA ........----- Original Message - ---- Subject: cheap strippers Okay people, I figured the subject line would get some attention. what is the cheapest stripping guide you guys would put on a cane rod from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 12 12:36:53 2002 g3CHar413373 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:36:53 -0500 g3CHaktx010130 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:36:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Lathe Gary, You're correct. They've got it listed for $495 compared to the $299 that Homier lists it for when it's available. The lathe is virtually with it. But from what I've gleaned from the 7 x 10 mini-lathe list, the price difference weighs heavily in favor of the Homier, and you can order better tools than what you'd get from the Grizzly lathe from http://www.littlemachineshop.com and come out ahead of the deal. Mark At 11:03 AM 4/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: Grizzly Industrial also sells the 7 X 12. Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" Tony Spezio 04/12/2002 10:39:42 AM >>> Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 12 12:38:12 2002 g3CHcB413588 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:38:11 -0500 ;Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:38:02 +0000 Subject: Re: Why LN#2 rather than #1 Don,I think it depends on the size of your hands, at least that was my =rationale for going to the #2. The #1 is much smaller than the #2 and I =felt it would get lost in my mitts. Are you going to have it grooved?Don Subject: Why LN#2 rather than #1 Guys, Before I plunk my money down, why would I go for # 2 rather than # 1? =Seems like a slighter shorter sole would make clamping/holding the strip =easier. Thanx, Don http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html Don,I think it depends on the size of your = than the #2 and I felt it would get lost in my mitts. Are you going to = grooved?Don From: Sandy Andersen Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 9:01 AMSubject: Why LN#2 rather than #1Guys,Before I plunk my money down, why would Igo = rather than # 1? Seems like a slighter shorter sole would make = the strip =easier.Thanx,Donhttp://www=.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from flyfish@gbronline.com Fri Apr 12 12:50:59 2002 g3CHow414492 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:50:58 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) --------------070703040808030501030000 Ditto on Case knives--a little more than $20, but worth it. You could probably get decent prices at Smoky Mountain Knife Works (no commercial interest) Hatch, James wrote: I think Case knives are still good buy, though they typically run a bit higher than $20. I had an old Case favorite taken away at the airport recently - my own fault, but boy was I bummed out to lose it. Jock -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law --------------070703040808030501030000 probablyget decent prices at Smoky Mountain Knife Works (no commercialinterest) Hatch, James wrote: RE: off topic (pocket knives)I think Case knives are still good buy, though theytypically airport recently - my own fault, but boy was I bummed out to lose -----Original Message-----From: Darin J Law [ ]Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thoughtI would ask an knife purpose use.Thanks,Darin Law --------------070703040808030501030000-- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Fri Apr 12 13:07:10 2002 g3CI79415390 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:07:09 -0500 g3CI61314559; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: leonard baby Catskill On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Marty D. wrote: I think the Baby Catskill Bob is talking about is the 36L. 6' 2/2 1 oz. #1/2 line. Marty Correct. Bob TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Don - To the best of my recollection it was a 4 weight, but it might havebeen a 3, also. I never cast the rod, just did some repair work, and got themeasurements in the process. from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Fri Apr 12 14:16:28 2002 g3CJGR418747 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:16:28 -0500 g3CJBXH03327 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:11:33 -0700 2002 -0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:16:21 -0700 Subject: Camping in Livingston g3CJGS418748 Guys,I'm planing on fishing my way from Arizona up to Montana for the FFF inAugust. I'll be pulling my 24ft camp trailer. Last time I was in Livingston Icamped on the Yellowstone several miles out of town. Do any of you haveknowledge of facilities or locations for camping in the Livingston area. I did aYahoo search and found only a few places. I'm also wandering if any of youhave any suggestions on the better spots to stay or on the other hand,avoid. Thanks,JimH from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Fri Apr 12 14:55:45 2002 g3CJti421507 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:55:44 -0500 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:55:37 -0500 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:39:10 -0500 Subject: Carbide Irons A year or so back, you may recall that I attempted to make some plane irons from A2 tool steel. I took them up to Bob N's and we evaluated them. Notimpressive. I shelved the project. Well last week, Bob M sent us a link toa summary of cryogenic treatment of high alloy steel, which resurrected this do the slow freeze and re-temper for under 20 bucks per unit, and then youhave to include the raw material and machining time. Not cost- effective,might as well buy from Ron Hock. Well there was a big show in Houston this week called HouTex, which is puton by the Society of Manufacturing Engineers. What a show! All kinds oflathes, mills, EDM, measuring instruments, numerics, CAD/CAM software andcontrols, etc. I had another brainstorm (OK, maybe it was just a sprinkle).What if I could EDM a 30 degree bevel onto carbide strips in a costeffective way, and then attach to a plane iron blank, like Harry and maybesome others are doing? So I costed the carbide, about 3 bucks a pop. The EDM is about 75 dollarsan hour, and it was estimated that they could cut at least 10 to 15 perhour, including setups. So if I had some junk irons (new Stanley or Recordirons) that were not being used, I could have the cutting edgesbrazed/soldered to them. One of the things we do at Baker is to makedownhole cutting tools, that cut through pipe, etc. in a well. Many of ourtools use carbide cutters attached securely to a tool body. I have weldersthat do this kind of thing day in and day out. The edge that would be left on the carbide by the EDM would be whateverangle I specify, probably 30 degrees for a nice round number (unless Harryrecommends otherwise). I checked the edges on some of the display piecesthey had at the show, and it was impressive. You would still need to do afinal lapping on it, but it would come about as sharp as the originalStanley iron. Anyone interested in pursuing this? I'm guessing that each iron would costsomewheres around 20 to 25 bucks, if you send me your old Stanley iron. Iknow Randall was interested, any others? If there is enough interest, I canget more firm quotations for each step and get back to everyone. I like the Regards -- TAM from rmoon@ida.net Fri Apr 12 15:06:17 2002 g3CK6G422342 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:06:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Camping in Livingston --------------286B4CA78A77B733CB25378B --------------A4350055F21086C36BC7E60F Jim, I don't camp any longer, so I cannot rate the campgrounds for you, butif you will look at :http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon/page8.html You will find a listing of thosein the area. A phone call may be all you need. Also I think Nunley camps out,you might ask him. Ralph --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------A4350055F21086C36BC7E60F you, but if you will look at : Ralph --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------A4350055F21086C36BC7E60F-- --------------286B4CA78A77B733CB25378B name="~max0002.jpg" filename="~max0002.jpg" 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--------------286B4CA78A77B733CB25378B-- from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Apr 12 17:13:09 2002 g3CMD9428216 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:13:09 -0500 g3CMD7O13998 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:13:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe I just checked with HF and they have a 8X12 forthe same price as the Grizzly7X12. I an just thinking about another small latheto replace the old 6X12 I just sold. I had that inmy rodmaking room Don't know that I really needanother lathe as I have a 9X20 in my workshop. The299.00 price tag is hard to pass up.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Mark Wendt wrote: Gary, You're correct. They've got it listed for $495 compared to the$299 that Homier lists it for when it's available. The lathe is virtually with it. But from what I've gleaned from the 7 x 10 mini-lathe list, theprice difference weighs heavily in favor of the Homier, and you can orderbetter tools than what you'd get from the Grizzly lathe fromhttp://www.littlemachineshop.com and come out ahead of the deal. Mark At 11:03 AM 4/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: Grizzly Industrial also sells the 7 X 12. Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" Tony Spezio 04/12/2002 10:39:42 AM Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 12 17:29:13 2002 g3CMTC429110 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:29:12 -0500 Subject: RE: Why LN#2 rather than #1 Hi Don: from what I have heard, the #1 is small for most people. i have small hands,and I think the #2 is almost too small for comfort if you are trying to usethe handle. I have a LN #2, a Sargent #3, and Millers Falls and Stanley #4s.To be honest, you need to plane in the opposite direction or hold by hand toget the extreme butt end regardless of the size. Personally, I have beenusing the #2 with Atlas rubberized work gloves and no clamps. Works fine. Imay use a clamp on hexes, but for quads the rubber grip gloves are betterthan reclamping...so far....Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AndersenSent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:02 PM Subject: Why LN#2 rather than #1 Guys, Before I plunk my money down, why would I go for # 2 rather than # 1?Seems like a slighter shorter sole would make clamping/holding the stripeasier. Thanx, Don http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html Don: have heard, the #1 is small for most people. i have small hands, and I = #2 is almost too small for comfort if you are trying to use the handle. = LN #2, a Sargent #3, and Millers Falls and Stanley #4s. To be honest, = to plane in the opposite direction or hold by hand to get the extreme = rubberized work gloves and no clamps. Works fine. I may use a clamp on = far....Bob & = AndersenSent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:02 rodmakers@mail.wustL.eduSubject: Why LN#2 rather #1Guys,Before I plunk my moneydown, why = go for # 2 rather than # 1? Seems like a slighter shorter sole would = = from cathcreek@hotmail.com Fri Apr 12 17:34:42 2002 g3CMYg429557 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:34:42 -0500 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:34:36 -0700 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:34:36 GMT Subject: Re: Camping in Livingston FILETIME=[39C78250:01C1E272] I am planning on camping as well. Anyone else camping for this event? Rob From: "Ralph W. Moon" CC: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Camping in LivingstonDate: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:06:08 -0600 Jim, I don't camp any longer, so I cannot rate the campgrounds for you, but if you will look at :http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon/page8.html You will find a listing of those in the area. A phone call may be all you need. Also I think Nunley camps out, you might ask him. Ralph --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from channer@frontier.net Fri Apr 12 18:01:23 2002 g3CN1M401252 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:01:22 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:01:28 -0600 Subject: re: shimmers Thanks to all for all the tips. Unfortunately, I already do most ofthese things, except use the dreaded Gossamer! I figured out on thefirst rod I wrapped that a brush was about useless for putting varnishon thread, I've been using my trusty dubbing needle ever since. Ihaven't tried heat on the wraps after putting the varnish on, I maysteal the wife's blow dryer and try that tonite, somehow using an openflame on varnish cut with turpentine doesn't seem like a very good idea.I've about decided that most of my problems stem from the unseen, butnot unnoticed, presence of a certain Mr. Murphy and of course, my owninherant bad luck. Maybe the definitive answer is to just use varathaneand wrap the rod after varnishing the blank. Or get out my framinghammer and beat that varnish into the wraps! Thanks againjohn from channer@frontier.net Fri Apr 12 18:12:29 2002 g3CNCT401971 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:12:29 - Subject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) Darin;I have no clue as to their price or quality, or even where to get one any more, but the Boy Scout pocket knife(the one with 2 blades) that Icarried for about 30 years was great, still is for that matter, but itnow is in retirement and spends it's days in well earned rest on my flytying/rod wrapping table.john Darin J Law wrote: I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Apr 12 18:12:33 2002 g3CNCW401975 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:12:32 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Re: shimmers Hi John, One quick word of advice, if you haven't used a blow dryer before, becareful where you use it and how. It will kick up every mote of dust for acouple hundred square feet. If you don't want to get it on your wraps, besure that there is nothing behind the rod (like a table or a wall) thatmight deflect the stream of air back onto your rod. Else, you will havedust to deal with as well as shimmers. Good luck. Jason On 4/12/02 5:01 PM, "channer" wrote: Thanks to all for all the tips. Unfortunately, I already do most ofthese things, except use the dreaded Gossamer! I figured out on thefirst rod I wrapped that a brush was about useless for putting varnishon thread, I've been using my trusty dubbing needle ever since. Ihaven't tried heat on the wraps after putting the varnish on, I maysteal the wife's blow dryer and try that tonite, somehow using an openflame on varnish cut with turpentine doesn't seem like a very good idea.I've about decided that most of my problems stem from the unseen, butnot unnoticed, presence of a certain Mr. Murphy and of course, my owninherant bad luck. Maybe the definitive answer is to just use varathaneand wrap the rod after varnishing the blank. Or get out my framinghammer and beat that varnish into the wraps! Thanks againjohn from sats@gte.net Fri Apr 12 18:18:48 2002 g3CNIl402641 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:18:47 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with Subject: WD-40 I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosine type product, butyesterdayI came a cross a reference in a book that stated, 'use WD-40 or any Siliconlubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes = paraphrase) This led me todo a little checking around the web, and I can't find anything that says WD-40has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigator and wasn't an expert inwood working or anything else related to actually knowing the makeup of WD-40(he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextant that had been exposed tosaltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea what he was talking about...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from channer@frontier.net Fri Apr 12 18:19:32 2002 g3CNJV402714 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:19:31 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:19:39 -0600 Subject: Re: cheap strippers Brad;Pac Bay has unbraced casting guides in many sizes and the chrome onesare pretty cheep. I like the titanium carbide ones for all my rods, andeven those aren't very expensive and look real nice, lighter thanMildrums,too. I think I pay around 5 bucks for them, chrome is probablyhalf that.john Brad Love wrote: Okay people, I figured the subject line would get some attention. what is the cheapest stripping guide you guys would put on a cane rod rods up to now but have two that, well are not deserving of suchquality hardware(I know I'm a cheap skate). Any suggestions? tiaBrad from jojo@ipa.net Fri Apr 12 18:24:18 2002 g3CNOH403301 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:24:17 -0500 helo=default) id 16wAOo-0002si-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:24:11 -0400 Subject: Re: WD-40 Don't know a thing about the composition of WD-40, but I know it's great forgumming up firearms.Gunsmiths love the stuff, at least when their customers are using it. Itprovides plenty of business M-D I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosine type product, butyesterdayI came a cross a reference in a book that stated, 'use WD-40 or any Siliconlubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes = paraphrase) This led me todo a little checking around the web, and I can't find anything that says WD-40has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigator and wasn't an expert inwood working or anything else related to actually knowing the makeup of WD-40(he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextant that had been exposed tosaltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea what he was talking about...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from channer@frontier.net Fri Apr 12 18:24:37 2002 g3CNOa403405 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:24:37 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:24:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Carbide Irons Troy;If you are just trying to cut down on the sharpening, then groove thesole of your plane, or get one from Lie Nielsen with the groove alreadyin it.john "Miller, Troy" wrote: A year or so back, you may recall that I attempted to make some planeirons from A2 tool steel. I took them up to Bob N's and we evaluated them. Notimpressive. I shelved the project. Well last week, Bob M sent us a link toa summary of cryogenic treatment of high alloy steel, which resurrectedthis do the slow freeze and re-temper for under 20 bucks per unit, and thenyouhave to include the raw material and machining time. Not cost- effective,might as well buy from Ron Hock. Well there was a big show in Houston this week called HouTex, which is puton by the Society of Manufacturing Engineers. What a show! All kinds oflathes, mills, EDM, measuring instruments, numerics, CAD/CAM softwareandcontrols, etc. I had another brainstorm (OK, maybe it was just a sprinkle).What if I could EDM a 30 degree bevel onto carbide strips in a costeffective way, and then attach to a plane iron blank, like Harry and maybesome others are doing? So I costed the carbide, about 3 bucks a pop. The EDM is about 75 dollarsan hour, and it was estimated that they could cut at least 10 to 15 perhour, including setups. So if I had some junk irons (new Stanley or Recordirons) that were not being used, I could have the cutting edgesbrazed/soldered to them. One of the things we do at Baker is to makedownhole cutting tools, that cut through pipe, etc. in a well. Many of ourtools use carbide cutters attached securely to a tool body. I have weldersthat do this kind of thing day in and day out. The edge that would be left on the carbide by the EDM would be whateverangle I specify, probably 30 degrees for a nice round number (unless Harryrecommends otherwise). I checked the edges on some of the displaypiecesthey had at the show, and it was impressive. You would still need to do afinal lapping on it, but it would come about as sharp as the originalStanley iron. Anyone interested in pursuing this? I'm guessing that each iron would costsomewheres around 20 to 25 bucks, if you send me your old Stanley iron. Iknow Randall was interested, any others? If there is enough interest, I canget more firm quotations for each step and get back to everyone. I likethe Regards -- TAM from channer@frontier.net Fri Apr 12 18:27:35 2002 g3CNRY403809 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:27:34 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:27:41 -0600 Subject: Re: shimmers Jason;That thought had occured to me, I planned on holding the rod anddirecting the air at it from underneath.john Jason Swan wrote: Hi John, One quick word of advice, if you haven't used a blow dryer before, becareful where you use it and how. It will kick up every mote of dust for acouple hundred square feet. If you don't want to get it on your wraps, besure that there is nothing behind the rod (like a table or a wall) thatmight deflect the stream of air back onto your rod. Else, you will havedust to deal with as well as shimmers. Good luck. Jason On 4/12/02 5:01 PM, "channer" wrote: Thanks to all for all the tips. Unfortunately, I already do most ofthese things, except use the dreaded Gossamer! I figured out on thefirst rod I wrapped that a brush was about useless for putting varnishon thread, I've been using my trusty dubbing needle ever since. Ihaven't tried heat on the wraps after putting the varnish on, I maysteal the wife's blow dryer and try that tonite, somehow using an openflame on varnish cut with turpentine doesn't seem like a very good idea.I've about decided that most of my problems stem from the unseen, butnot unnoticed, presence of a certain Mr. Murphy and of course, my owninherant bad luck. Maybe the definitive answer is to just use varathaneand wrap the rod after varnishing the blank. Or get out my framinghammer and beat that varnish into the wraps! Thanks againjohn Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Apr 12 18:49:07 2002 g3CNn6405236 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:49:06 -0500 helo=default) id 16wAmv-0001RV-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:49:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools There are many, many corporations that take advantage of off-shore havens-- Ford Motor Co., andBoeing Aircraft to name but two. This is nothing new under the sun, and oneneedn't move to thelocale simply to do it. It is quite easily done through the use of legal fictions,i.e.,corporations and trusts.There is no responsibility to pay taxes unless one has specifically contractedinto so doing. Eventhen there is no duty to increase one's taxes, and every legitimate means toreduce one's taxexposure is well recognized, documented, and approved of by the IRS, andmay be utilized. Again,this is nothing new.Despite common belief, the "taxes" taken in as "income taxes" does not payto run the government.This has never been the case. If you read the "President's Private SectorSurvey on Cost Control",commonly referred to as the "Grace Commission Report" you will glean manythings, one of which isthat in 1984, the year of its publication, 100% of the "income tax" collectedwas applied againstthe interest of the national debt. Nothing's ever changed, either. Thegovernment operates on adeficit because this is what floats the economy. Taxes are a way ofcontrolling, or manipulating theeconomy. They also give people a faith in the funny money -- makes it nearand dear to them.Balanced budgets and budget surpluses are a smoke and mirror trick. Theysound really good, playwell for the people, but are nothing more than panderings.I'm not going into it, period, but if any should care to make the study, you willbe at firstincredulous, then angered by the depths of deception under which the peopleof this country labor. M-D Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the StanleyTool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a movethat is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing newbut rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will pay manymillions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand planeusers. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existenceand therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be saidthat it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them whenthey purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporationsdodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the commonman/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry from douglosey@spectrumenergy.com Fri Apr 12 18:57:31 2002 g3CNvU405678 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:57:30 -0500 Subject: Re: WD-40 so do the rehab centers... losey from lblan@provide.net Fri Apr 12 18:57:45 2002 g3CNvi405712 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:57:44 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:57:43 -0400 Subject: RE: WD-40 I'll second that, from first-hand knowledge. It is unbelievable how much itcan gum up. If you are looking for a moisture displacing oil, there arebetter ones out there. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: Re: WD-40 Don't know a thing about the composition of WD-40, but I knowit's great for gumming up firearms.Gunsmiths love the stuff, at least when their customers are usingit. It provides plenty of business M-D From: "Terry Kirkpatrick" I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosine typeproduct, but yesterdayI came a cross a reference in a book that stated, 'use WD-40 orany Siliconlubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes = paraphrase)This led me todo a little checking around the web, and I can't find anythingthat says WD-40has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigator and wasn'tan expert inwood working or anything else related to actually knowing themakeup of WD-40(he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextant that had beenexposed tosaltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea what he wastalking about...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from dybam@oct.net Fri Apr 12 19:19:23 2002 g3D0JM406597 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:19:22 -0500 Subject: Re:Livingston Communications, Inc. following camp grounds as listed in Trailer Life Directory;Daily Lake Campground-State Park- no fees mentioned, no reservations,1-406-994- 4042 Livingston Campground, $19.70-$27.30 per day reservation- 1-406-222- 1122AAA approved. Livingston Paradise Valley KOA $24.00-$29.00 per day. 1-406-222-1096 Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: WD-40 Don't know a thing about the composition of WD-40, but I know it's great Gunsmiths love the stuff, at least when their customers are using it. It provides plenty of business M-D From: "Terry Kirkpatrick" I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosine type product, but yesterday I came a cross a reference in a book that stated, 'use WD-40 or any Silicon lubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes = paraphrase) This led me to do a little checking around the web, and I can't find anything that says WD-40 has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigator and wasn't an expert in wood working or anything else related to actually knowing the makeup of WD-40 (he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextant that had been exposed to saltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea what he was talking about... ----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Apr 12 19:53:41 2002 g3D0re407289 (authenticated) for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:53:38 -0700 Subject: Bill Hoy Bill, Didn't have your email address handy, sothought I would post this. My guess is that thisis the same stuff I've been using, only renamed.It certainly comes from the same company. I'veemailed them asking about the Nyalic, and we'llsee what they say. http://www.eastwoodco.com/cgi- Might have to cut and paste the link, becauseI think it's going to wrap around. Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 12 20:18:25 2002 g3D1IO408018 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:18:24 -0500 Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:18:19 +0000 Subject: Re: WD-40 I use it on stones when sharpening, keeps the stone clean. I never seen itgum-up anything, if anything it cleans a stone.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: WD-40 I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosine type product, butyesterdayI came a cross a reference in a book that stated, 'use WD-40 or any Siliconlubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes = paraphrase) This led metodo a little checking around the web, and I can't find anything that saysWD-40has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigator and wasn't an expertinwood working or anything else related to actually knowing the makeup ofWD-40(he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextant that had been exposed tosaltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea what he was talking about...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Apr 12 20:38:26 2002 g3D1cQ409671 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:38:26 -0500 12 Apr 2002 18:38:25 PDT Subject: Re: WD-40 wd-40 is nothing more than kerosine that has hadvanilla beans soaked in it then filtered. --- Terry Kirkpatrick wrote: I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosinetype product, but yesterdayI came a cross a reference in a book that stated,'use WD-40 or any Siliconlubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes =paraphrase) This led me todo a little checking around the web, and I can'tfind anything that says WD-40has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigatorand wasn't an expert inwood working or anything else related to actuallyknowing the makeup of WD-40(he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextantthat had been exposed tosaltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea whathe was talking about...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Apr 12 20:40:12 2002 g3D1eB409863 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:40:11 -0500 12 Apr 2002 18:40:07 PDT Subject: Re: WD-40 yes, kerosine is gritty isn't it. it will aid in therubbing off of the bluing on a gun. timothy --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: Don't know a thing about the composition of WD-40,but I know it's great for gumming up firearms.Gunsmiths love the stuff, at least when theircustomers are using it. It provides plenty ofbusiness M-D From: "Terry Kirkpatrick" I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosinetype product, but yesterdayI came a cross a reference in a book that stated,'use WD-40 or any Siliconlubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes =paraphrase) This led me todo a little checking around the web, and I can'tfind anything that says WD-40has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigatorand wasn't an expert inwood working or anything else related to actuallyknowing the makeup of WD-40(he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextantthat had been exposed tosaltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea whathe was talking about...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Fri Apr 12 20:47:41 2002 g3D1le410258 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:47:40 -0500 helo=default) id 16wCde-0000CF-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:47:38 -0400 Subject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) Here's a good place from which to buy knives, and other stuff. They've quitea few of good qualityin the $20.00 range. http://www.camohut.com/store M-D I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Fri Apr 12 21:22:48 2002 g3D2Ml410939 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:22:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Carbide Irons I tried this with a local company and replacable carbide cutters. The thinstanley irons bent and became useless. Maybe my guys just weren't goodbrazers, but we decided a thicker piece of steel was needed. FWIW Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Carbide Irons A year or so back, you may recall that I attempted to make some plane irons from A2 tool steel. I took them up to Bob N's and we evaluated them. Notimpressive. I shelved the project. Well last week, Bob M sent us a link to a summary of cryogenic treatment of high alloy steel, which resurrected this do the slow freeze and re-temper for under 20 bucks per unit, and thenyouhave to include the raw material and machining time. Not cost- effective,might as well buy from Ron Hock. Well there was a big show in Houston this week called HouTex, which is puton by the Society of Manufacturing Engineers. What a show! All kinds oflathes, mills, EDM, measuring instruments, numerics, CAD/CAM softwareandcontrols, etc. I had another brainstorm (OK, maybe it was just a sprinkle). What if I could EDM a 30 degree bevel onto carbide strips in a costeffective way, and then attach to a plane iron blank, like Harry and maybesome others are doing? So I costed the carbide, about 3 bucks a pop. The EDM is about 75 dollarsan hour, and it was estimated that they could cut at least 10 to 15 perhour, including setups. So if I had some junk irons (new Stanley or Record irons) that were not being used, I could have the cutting edgesbrazed/soldered to them. One of the things we do at Baker is to makedownhole cutting tools, that cut through pipe, etc. in a well. Many of our tools use carbide cutters attached securely to a tool body. I have welders that do this kind of thing day in and day out. The edge that would be left on the carbide by the EDM would be whateverangle I specify, probably 30 degrees for a nice round number (unless Harryrecommends otherwise). I checked the edges on some of the displaypiecesthey had at the show, and it was impressive. You would still need to do afinal lapping on it, but it would come about as sharp as the originalStanley iron. Anyone interested in pursuing this? I'm guessing that each iron would cost somewheres around 20 to 25 bucks, if you send me your old Stanley iron. Iknow Randall was interested, any others? If there is enough interest, I can get more firm quotations for each step and get back to everyone. I like the Regards -- TAM from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Fri Apr 12 21:24:17 2002 g3D2OF411060 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:24:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe I have that lathe, and am happy with it mostly. Sometimes wish the bed waslonger.... Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathe Grizzly Industrial also sells the 7 X 12. Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" Tony Spezio 04/12/2002 10:39:42 AM >>> Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 12 21:24:23 2002 g3D2OM411067 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:24:23 -0500 ([209.179.147.57] helo=computer) id 16wDDA-0005fZ-00; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:24:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Lathe Beware of the Homier lathe, While it is the same lathe as HF it is shipped in a box with only styrofoam crushed.HF puts a crate top and bottom on and wood supports on the side. Shipping itis more secure. Also with HF the shipping and return guarentee are hard tobeat. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathe Gary, You're correct. They've got it listed for $495 compared to the$299 that Homier lists it for when it's available. The lathe is virtually with it. But from what I've gleaned from the 7 x 10 mini-lathe list, theprice difference weighs heavily in favor of the Homier, and you can orderbetter tools than what you'd get from the Grizzly lathe fromhttp://www.littlemachineshop.com and come out ahead of the deal. Mark At 11:03 AM 4/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: Grizzly Industrial also sells the 7 X 12. Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" Tony Spezio 04/12/2002 10:39:42 AM Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from Grnmtrds@aol.com Fri Apr 12 21:36:46 2002 g3D2aj411882 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:36:45 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:36:35 - Subject: (no subject) from Grnmtrds@aol.com Fri Apr 12 21:40:47 2002 g3D2ek412130 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:40:46 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:40:34 - Subject: camping Rob, We will be camping also. There is a real nice KOA in Bozeman. It is about 20 miles over to livingston. We will be heading out about a week prior to the gathering so as to get a little extra fishing in ..If my wife lets me. See you there,Jim/Vermont from lblove@omniglobal.net Fri Apr 12 21:41:56 2002 g3D2fr412180 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:41:54 -0500 0000 Subject: Re: WD-40 g3D2fu412183 WD-40 is like belt dressing for v-belts,the only people that suggest the use is thepeople that make the stuff. WD-40 is great for whatit was designed for, getting the water to float out of themechanical working of gauges prior to oiling them.Then again so is about 2psi of compressed air. Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/12/02 at 7:24 PM Terry Kirkpatrick wrote: I was under the impression that WD-40 was a kerosine type product, butyesterdayI came a cross a reference in a book that stated, 'use WD-40 or any Siliconlubricant to displace moisture...' (single quotes = paraphrase) This ledme todo a little checking around the web, and I can't find anything that saysWD-40has Silicone in it. The guy was an ocean navigator and wasn't an expertinwood working or anything else related to actually knowing the makeup ofWD-40(he was suggesting using it to clean lube a sextant that had been exposedtosaltwater.)so I'm not sure that he had any idea what he was talkingabout...----------------------------Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from Grnmtrds@aol.com Fri Apr 12 21:49:44 2002 g3D2nh412807 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:49:43 -0500 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:49:34 - Subject: wd40 Terry, Careful what you use WD40 on. It is pretty much junk (I'll catch hell for this). If you ever put it on a gun and put the gun up for a while it gums up and is real nasty to try and remove. Short of soaking in a solvent. There is a good reason why the US gov't won't let anyone doing contracts or the military use it. Good luck,Jim from tedknott@cogeco.ca Fri Apr 12 21:53:43 2002 g3D2rh413061 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:53:43 -0500 Subject: Re: wd40 I've been using WD40 for years to wipe down my saltwater reels. So far noproblems, probably because I also clean them in a solvent periodically.What kind of protection would you recommend instead? from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Apr 12 22:01:38 2002 g3D31b413552 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:01:37 -0500 (authenticated) Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:56:33 -0700 Subject: Re: Carbide Irons Brain, I have six (one for each plane, plus two extras), all brazed onto Stanleyblades. All work fine. Of course, I didn't make them. Left that to someonewith some skills. There was a fellow named Joe on the list a few years ago who did three forme. They are perfect. Unfortunately, Joe passed away, so I can't get anymore from him. Another friend from the list did the other three. Troy, put me down for one if you go with this idea... and I'd suggest 35* -40* rather than 30. I think having a little more metal behind the cuttingedgeis an especially good idea with carbide. Harry "Brian D. Creek" wrote: I tried this with a local company and replacable carbide cutters. The thinstanley irons bent and became useless. Maybe my guys just weren't goodbrazers, but we decided a thicker piece of steel was needed. FWIW Brian----- Original Message -----From: "Miller, Troy" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 3:55 PMSubject: Carbide Irons A year or so back, you may recall that I attempted to make some plane irons from A2 tool steel. I took them up to Bob N's and we evaluated them. Notimpressive. I shelved the project. Well last week, Bob M sent us a link to a summary of cryogenic treatment of high alloy steel, which resurrected this do the slow freeze and re-temper for under 20 bucks per unit, and thenyouhave to include the raw material and machining time. Not cost- effective,might as well buy from Ron Hock. Well there was a big show in Houston this week called HouTex, which isputon by the Society of Manufacturing Engineers. What a show! All kinds oflathes, mills, EDM, measuring instruments, numerics, CAD/CAM softwareandcontrols, etc. I had another brainstorm (OK, maybe it was just a sprinkle). What if I could EDM a 30 degree bevel onto carbide strips in a costeffective way, and then attach to a plane iron blank, like Harry andmaybesome others are doing? So I costed the carbide, about 3 bucks a pop. The EDM is about 75dollarsan hour, and it was estimated that they could cut at least 10 to 15 perhour, including setups. So if I had some junk irons (new Stanley or Record irons) that were not being used, I could have the cutting edgesbrazed/soldered to them. One of the things we do at Baker is to makedownhole cutting tools, that cut through pipe, etc. in a well. Many of our tools use carbide cutters attached securely to a tool body. I have welders that do this kind of thing day in and day out. The edge that would be left on the carbide by the EDM would be whateverangle I specify, probably 30 degrees for a nice round number (unlessHarryrecommends otherwise). I checked the edges on some of the displaypiecesthey had at the show, and it was impressive. You would still need to do afinal lapping on it, but it would come about as sharp as the originalStanley iron. Anyone interested in pursuing this? I'm guessing that each iron would cost somewheres around 20 to 25 bucks, if you send me your old Stanley iron. Iknow Randall was interested, any others? If there is enough interest, I can get more firm quotations for each step and get back to everyone. I like the Regards -- TAM -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri Apr 12 22:15:07 2002 g3D3F6413907 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:06 -0500 g3D3Ewf20820; Subject: Re: Camping in Livingston campground unless you want facilities. Find a little spot on USFS land and have at it, Just tread lightly or the greenies will get ya !Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Fri Apr 12 22:15:17 2002 g3D3FG413950 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:17 -0500 Subject: Re: wd40 I saw on one of those Discovery Channel "know it all" shows, that one of the primary ingredient is fish oil. Ask any savy charter boat captain why he sprays it on hius lures. Here in Montana we spray it on the lures as well, but not for fish attracting or rust preventing, the water is so dang hard you have to lubricate the lures to get them thru it ! ! [:-)] Jim Jim Flinchbaughflyrod@digisys.nethttp://www.digisys.net/users/flyrod from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Apr 12 22:29:27 2002 g3D3TQ414633 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:29:26 - WAA13475 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 Subject: re: shimmers I don't know if this will help the shimmers or not... Some people swear by fine bristle brushes, others by needlesor toothpicks. I think a foam brush works much better than these.I buy a big (3") foam brush for about $1 and cut it into littlestrips. I hold the pieces with an alligator clip for a littlehandle. Works for me. Nice smooth flow without bubbles.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rextutor@yahoo.com Fri Apr 12 22:37:46 2002 g3D3bk414986 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:37:46 -0500 12 Apr 2002 20:37:45 PDT Subject: Re: camping I will be camping. The USFS land sounds good. ANyonegot a spot near Livingston? --- Grnmtrds@aol.com wrote: Rob, We will be camping also. There is a real nice KOA inBozeman. It is about 20 miles over to livingston. We will be heading out about a week prior to thegathering so as to get a little extra fishing in ..If my wife lets me. See you there,Jim/Vermont __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Fri Apr 12 23:06:14 2002 g3D46D417566 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:06:13 -0500 helo=default) id 16wEni-0005LS-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:06:10 -0400 Subject: Re: wd40 I've used this stuff for years. Look at the Marine Tuf-cloth and the Tuf-glide. http://www.sentrysolutions.com/products.html M-D I've been using WD40 for years to wipe down my saltwater reels. So far noproblems, probably because I also clean them in a solvent periodically.What kind of protection would you recommend instead? from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 12 23:35:43 2002 g3D4Zh418290 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:35:43 -0500 ([209.179.149.156] helo=computer) id 16wFGI-0002gP-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:35:42 -0700 Subject: Polyurethane glue? I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am wondering about =Polyurethane glue. I would like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those =who have used it what advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehydeand = caveats? Adam from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Apr 12 23:59:49 2002 g3D4xm420735 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:59:48 -0500 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:59:24 -0400 Subject: ? Diamond Stone List, I am currently using 1000/4000 combination Japanese water stone for sharpening irons. It has worked well up to this point, but I now see the problem with dishing. What about diamond stones. Why are they supposed to be better. Whatdiamond stone is comperable to the 1000/4000 combination water stone? How is the diamond stone used? Thanks for any insights, Kyle from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Sat Apr 13 01:58:00 2002 g3D6vx422853 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:57:59 -0500 ;Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:57:57 +0200 Subject: Sv: Polyurethane glue? Do use thin surgical gloves when gluing, or Your hands will be black for =the next 14 days.Buy small bottles of the stuff, it can get stiff in the bottle.Buy it from some who sell plenty of the stuff.It is one great glue for rod making. regards, Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Polyurethane glue? I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am wondering about =Polyurethane glue. I would like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those =who have used it what advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam Do use thin surgical gloves when gluing, or Your = black for the next 14 days.Buy small bottles of the stuff, it can get stiff in = bottle.Buy it from some who sell plenty of the =stuff.It is one great glue for rod making. regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message ----- Vigil = Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 = AMSubject: Polyurethane =glue? I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde = caveats? Adam from homes-sold@attbi.com Sat Apr 13 02:19:00 2002 g3D7Ix423416 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:18:59 -0500 Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:18:53 +0000 Subject: Re: ? Diamond Stone Kyle, A 8" diamond 325x/1200x could be used to flatten water stones using the325xside. I'm not sure but I think 1200x is about as fine as they get. There aretwo types of diamond stones, Monocrystaline & Polycrystaline. ThePolycrystaline ones are less expensive but won't last as long. Either onewill cut carbide. Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: ? Diamond Stone List, I am currently using 1000/4000 combination Japanese water stone forsharpening irons. It has worked well up to this point, but I now see theproblem with dishing. What about diamond stones. Why are they supposed to be better. Whatdiamondstone is comperable to the 1000/4000 combination water stone? How is thediamond stone used? Thanks for any insights, Kyle from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Sat Apr 13 02:59:27 2002 g3D7xP424127 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:59:26 -0500 id 87497D2A8B; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:58:55 +1200 (NZST) +1200 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: off topic (pocket knives) We have a german pocketknife available in New Zealand called a Mercator or Merc. It is a folding lock knife, the handle being black painted steel, so it is very slim. The blade takes a great edge, is probably more brittle than it should be, rusts like hell, but is definitely the best value for money at this end of the world. They have been available for about thirty years or more here. My 15 yr old sone just bought one at Christmas time, and as far as I can see they haven't changed a bit. Have a looksee and try to find one. There is a cheap copy around, but it doesnt have 'Mercator' stamped on the blade. They have a very plain utilitarian look about them, you might not even notice them in amongst all the other saw tooth perforated shark tooth crap around. OR, you can approach the airline security people..... In the last week, the Auckland airport security service has been advertising for community groups to come and collect some of the thousands (no exaggeration) of knives and scissors that have been confiscated in the last few months since the step up in security. On Friday I wrote a letter asking for forty pocketknives, and 20 pr of embroidery scissors for our fishing and flytying club. What are they doing with them where you live? DGK -----Original Message----- Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Apr 13 03:32:43 2002 g3D8Wg424694 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 03:32:42 - Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:32:33 -0700 Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:32:33 GMT Subject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) FILETIME=[C23E1DD0:01C1E2C5] One of the simple swiss army knives. I like the Victorinox better than the other one. The one i have had for many years has an orange peeler/screwdriver, scissors, fingernail care widget, two blades (thanks to OJ we now know they are indeed formidable!) and a toothpick and tweezers.On the cheap knockoffs the tweezers don't work worth a damn but on an original they work great on you-know-what. When I was an avid backpacker in the70's we always had a giggle at those 'kitchen sink' models. Seemed silly when you are cutting the labels off your tea bags.....A.J. From: Darin J Law Subject: off topic (pocket knives) I value your opinions and since it is Friday I thought I would ask anoff topic question. What is the best $20.00 pocket knife for generalpurpose use. Thanks,Darin Law _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sat Apr 13 04:21:34 2002 g3D9LW425356 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 04:21:32 - g3D9LOX97686; Subject: Re: Why LN#2 rather than #1 Don As with some other familiarly used tools, size may not, as they say, be =of any consequence; but nevertheless there is a sort of quantum "heft" =without which your discussion of the subject in pubs is taken less than =seriously. [:-)] Peter Don tools, size may not, as they say, be of any consequence; but = in pubs is taken less than seriously. :-) Peter from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sat Apr 13 06:24:19 2002 g3DBOI426637 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:24:18 -0500 Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:24:14 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Polyurethane glue? Thread-Topic: Polyurethane glue?Thread-Index: AcHipMB2U0nhJqWSRlqJi2XhJICqvwAOHQyB FILETIME=[BE313430:01C1E2DD] g3DBOI426638 I agree with everything that Carsten said, especially about the gloves! It isvery sticky, someone suggested keeping a bowl of alcohol handy to dip yourgloved hands in as you are working, that is a good idea and works well. Theglued strips slip over each other very easily, which I find makes straighteningdifficult for the first several minutes after gluing. I apply the glue, bind, andgo on to another section, then come back to the first to straighten. Although I still routinely use resorcinol, I have had good success with thepolyurethane (Probond) for several rods over the past couple of years. Ialso use it to glue ferrules, no failures so far. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Fri 4/12/2002 11:35 PM Subject: Polyurethane glue? I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am wondering aboutPolyurethane glue. I would like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those who haveused it what advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Apr 13 06:52:57 2002 g3DBqv427103 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:52:57 -0500 Subject: Re: off topic (pocket knives) I like Boker, but they are more than $20. By far, my favorite in that price range is the soldiers version of the swiss army knife. That is the one with the cast aluminum handles, and the heavy duty blades. I invariably end up abusing pocket knives, and that one holds up well. from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Apr 13 07:09:40 2002 g3DC9e427581 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:09:40 - g3DC9Vtx004904 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:09:32 - Subject: Re: Lathe Adam, They've fixed their shipping problems. It comes double boxed, with the outside box being a nuclear proof type of cardboard. I mean, that sucker is thick and heavy..... They have wrapped the tail stock in bubble wrap, too. I got mine about a month ago, shipped UPS and no damage. Guess they decided they'd gotten too many damaged returns. Mark At 07:24 PM 4/12/02 -0700, you wrote: Beware of the Homier lathe, While it is the same lathe as HF it is shipped in a box with only styrofoam crushed.HF puts a crate top and bottom on and wood supports on the side. Shippingitis more secure. Also with HF the shipping and return guarentee are hard tobeat. Adam----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:36 AMSubject: Re: Lathe Gary, You're correct. They've got it listed for $495 compared to the$299 that Homier lists it for when it's available. The lathe is virtually with it. But from what I've gleaned from the 7 x 10 mini-lathe list, theprice difference weighs heavily in favor of the Homier, and you can orderbetter tools than what you'd get from the Grizzly lathe fromhttp://www.littlemachineshop.com and come out ahead of the deal. Mark At 11:03 AM 4/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: Grizzly Industrial also sells the 7 X 12. Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" Tony Spezio 04/12/2002 10:39:42 AM Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. from briansr@point-net.com Sat Apr 13 08:01:47 2002 g3DD1l428432 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:01:47 - g3DDWms22731; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:32:48 -0400 Subject: Re: WD-40 . WD-40 is great for whatit was designed for, getting the water to float out of themechanical working of gauges prior to oiling them. Brad WD-40 was actuallycreated as a water/moisture dispellant for Thor ICBMsBTW another great use for WD-40 is tye a red rag onto a 2/0 hook soak it inWD-40 and use this "fly" on Sturgeon !!It actually worksCheersBrian from rcurry@ttlc.net Sat Apr 13 08:15:57 2002 g3DDFu429659 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:15:56 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: WD-40 The definitive history of WD-40 can be found at http://www.wd40.com/AboutUs/our_history.html Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 13 08:17:54 2002 g3DDHs429975 Subject: Re: WD-40 It is great for killing bees too. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ It is great for killingbees too. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 13 08:30:26 2002 g3DDUO400567 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:30:24 - Subject: Re: WD-40 Works for Mahi Mahi too. One trip a bloke with us used some on a lure with a rag attached. Another guy there was using chicken breast as bait.The guy with the lurers and WD-40 told the one with the chicken breasts he couldn't imaging a fish taking that because there's nothing in the sea like them. We all looked and told him there's nothing in the sea like lures with a rag soaked in wd-40 either.Both work but cray tails are best of all. I can also tell with absolute certainty white pointer sharks like outboard motors with or without wd-40. Tony At 09:01 AM 4/13/02 -0400, brian sturrock wrote: . WD-40 is great for whatit was designed for, getting the water to float out of themechanical working of gauges prior to oiling them. Brad WD-40 was actuallycreated as a water/moisture dispellant for Thor ICBMsBTW another great use for WD-40 is tye a red rag onto a 2/0 hook soak itinWD-40 and use this "fly" on Sturgeon !!It actually worksCheersBrian /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 13 08:44:12 2002 g3DDiA401013 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:44:10 - Subject: Re: WD-40 That's interesting stuff. If you read a little more you'll get to the solvol soap bit. Great stuff that.My boy is working his way through collage as they say as a tree lopper's off sider. Makes him big and strong but also pretty grubby, bee and wasp stun too. Solvol is the only stuff that'll touch what he comes home like. How's that for a testimonial? Reminds me of an old (possibly, in fact probably apocryphal story) of a WWII soldier in Papua New Guinea who never got any mail from home so he used to write to all the companies telling of how well their products worked in the harsh conditions of jungle warfare. They generally sent him freebies of their product too.He wrote to Wilkinson Sword telling them of how he'd used the same double edged razor every day while on the Kokoda Trail and several other major fighting regions for the last 12 months etc etc.Wilkenson Sword replied with a very nice letter telling him how much they appreciate the testimonials of users and would he please accept their gift of another 12 months supply of a razor [:-)] At 09:17 AM 4/13/02 -0400, Reed Curry wrote: The definitive history of WD-40 can be found at http://www.wd40.com/AboutUs/our_history.html Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Apr 13 08:47:24 2002 g3DDlN401325 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:47:23 -0500 Subject: RE: Polyurethane glue? Gorilla Glue works great, but use gloves, wear old clothes, work moderatelyquickly, and mist the strips lightly before applying the glue. The onlyfailure I have ever had with it is using a bottle over a year old. I don'tuse it all the time because I don't like having to use alcohol for clean up,but it is a good glue for blanks. You will like it.Bob M.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 12:36 AM Subject: Polyurethane glue? I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am wondering aboutPolyurethane glue. I would like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those whohave used it what advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam works great, but use gloves, wear old clothes, work moderately quickly, = the strips lightly before applying the glue. The only failure I have = with it is using a bottle over a year old. I don't use it all the time = don't like having to use alcohol for clean up, but it is a good glue for = You will like it. M. VigilSent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 12:36 glue?I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde = caveats? Adam from Mark.Babiy@stel.tdsb.on.ca Sat Apr 13 09:04:55 2002 g3DE4s401679 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:04:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? Just tried it for the first time earlier this week. It seems to workgreat. I used the Excel that I bought from Lee Valley, but from what Iunderstand it really does not matter which one you use. It does have ashelf life so buy small quantities. And get it from somebody who rotoatestheir stock frequently. Use gloves. Mist lightly before spreading it on. I had a long workingtime, with this glue. I was still able to strainten up to about an hourafter I bound. It sanded great. Will try it again for sure. Mark from ECKTOR_66@YAHOO.COM Sat Apr 13 09:14:28 2002 g3DEER402005 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:14:27 -0500 13 Apr 2002 07:14:27 PDT Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? I tried Gorilla Glue for nodeless splices and was nothappy with the results. I compared Titebond II to Gorilla Glue by glueing 6splices with each type of glue. Once cured, I flexedeach piece by hand until failure (I know, it'sprobably not a reliable or repeatable test method...but it was simple). I flexed the pieces in thedirection they would likely be stressed when assembledin a rod (along the splice, not perpendicular) In all 6 test pieces, the splice with the Gorilla Gluefailed before the cane itself in the test piecessnapped. The failed pretty easily, really. Thejoints did not appear to be starved... there was aslight glue residue on the glue surfaces. I hadmoistened the cane prior to glue-up per theinstructions. On the Titebond II strips the cane snapped in 4 of 6tries. 2 were splice failures. I'm still ponderingthe cause of those 2 failures. There may be a different method required for thenoeless splices when using Gorilla Glue, but I havenot investigated that yet. (I'm using the ChrisBogart Pony-Clamp approach... )The glue may have beenold (My local hardware guy *said* it was a newshipment...) or my test method may have beenbiased... but I'm still using Titebond II for thenodeless strip assembly. I thought about sending the splines to a guy I knowthat does failure analysis... but the last time I usedhim for a PVC failure it cost (my employer) about$20K. I'll skip that approach for now. Eric Koehler --- Adam Vigil wrote: I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I amwondering about Polyurethane glue. I would like togive Gorilla Glue a try for those who have used itwhat advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sat Apr 13 10:03:33 2002 g3DF3W402751 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:03:32 -0500 13 Apr 2002 10:55:07 -0400 Subject: RE: Polyurethane glue? Hi Eric:It does not work well for nodeless splices, you are right. BUT, it reallydoes work well for gluing up blanks. Sometime back, Doug Easton (I believe)posted results of testing regarding PUs.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? I tried Gorilla Glue for nodeless splices and was nothappy with the results. from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Sat Apr 13 10:27:36 2002 g3DFRZ403258 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:27:36 -0500 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:27:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? I've used Probond on several rods with good results. The rods seem just as stiff or maybe stiffer than ones glued with URAC 185 (though I haven't done any tests to prove this). I like the fact that you don't have to mix it - one less thing to go wrong. I buy a big bag of cheap disposable plastic gloves & will go through 4-6 pairs when gluing, binding & straightening a rod. Once it dries on your hands it just plain doesn't come off. I've been wiping the strips with a damp sponge before applying the glue. I let the glue sit on the strips for a few minutes before binding - seems like someone on the list posted this tip. I wipe excess glue off the strips with water after binding, and then straighten. The binding cord comes off after 24 hours, then I let the sections cure for a few days before sanding (just to be sure). I use URAC when I make a rod for someone else, simply because it's highly recommended and is proven to hold up over the years. Most of the books I've read recommend URAC or epoxy and state that the new urethane glues are "unproven". So there must be something to it. My guess is that PU will last as well or even better, but this is just a hunch. For my own rods, I like Probond. Tom from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Apr 13 11:04:56 2002 g3DG4t404008 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:04:55 -0500 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:04:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? Adam, I've used polyurethane glue on my last several rods. I first moistened the strips with water and then applied the glue with a tooth brush. There was good working time for binding and straightening. So far the rods have not had any problems. These were build nodeless and I used Titebond for the splices. I used Elmer's ProBond polyurethane after testing Gorilla, and Titebond polyurethane glues. It seemed to foam less, had a longer working time and seemed to provide a superior bond on my test strips. Mark Cole Adam, moistened the strips with water and then applied the glue with a tooth brush. I used Elmer's ProBond polyurethane after testing Gorilla, and Titebond and seemed to provide a superior bond on my test strips. Mark Cole from MasjC1@aol.com Sat Apr 13 11:11:58 2002 g3DGBv404352 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:11:57 -0500 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:11:45 -0400 Subject: Polyurethane glue Adam, I just realized that I should have said that my nodeless splices are glued with Titebond II not the polyurethane. Mark Cole Adam, I just realized that I should have said that my nodeless splices are gluedwith Titebond II not the polyurethane. Mark Cole from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 13 11:41:13 2002 g3DGfC405211 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:41:12 - Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our colonies revolted because oftaxation without representation--ie., extortion in the face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim! They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, be protected by American laws andreap the rewards of the American free enterprise system, but they want toescape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporateheadquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal $35,000 fee) toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoy are now to be paid by allthe rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure.I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claimthey are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. Howabout a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Apr 13 12:13:47 2002 g3DHDj405864 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:13:46 - 13 Apr 2002 10:13:45 PDT Subject: Re: Stanley Tools bill, i guess it's lie-nielsens all around, eh? :^) timothy --- WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our coloniesrevolted because oftaxation without representation--ie., extortion inthe face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim!They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, beprotected by American laws andreap the rewards of the American free enterprisesystem, but they want toescape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporateheadquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal$35,000 fee) toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoyare now to be paid by allthe rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Peter Lawrence" ; Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:32 PMSubject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted fromBritain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure. I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a groupthat is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claim they are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after somethingelse now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. How about a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approvedbecause it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from rkrees@mcn.net Sat Apr 13 12:15:39 2002 g3DHFc406141 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:15:38 - helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 16wR7f-0001qi-00; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:15:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Camping in Livingston ?I own a R.V. Park in the Bozeman area and I can tell you if you plan tostay at one you better getreservations early. And Be forewarned that the prices that are listedearlier in the post may not bewhat you receive. Depending on how much you want to drive you will findseveral USDAcampgrounds in the Gallatin canyon that may or may not be open but with aadded twentyminutes or so you can almost always find room on the Madison river whichputs you a little lessthan a hour drive. You could also go up the canyon and find federal land atDaily lake and otherturn offs along the Yellowstone riverRon from Troutgetter@aol.com Sat Apr 13 12:19:48 2002 g3DHJl406478 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:19:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? Adam,You are more than welcome to come over to the shop and rent some Nyatex.You will find the rental agreement per month more than agreeable and you only have to pay the rent for as long as the glue holds up!Luv you man!Mike In a message dated 4/12/2002 9:36:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am wondering about Polyurethane glue. I would like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those who have used it what advice do you have?....any caveats?Adam Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ Adam,You are more than welcome to come over to the shop and rent some Nyatex.You will find the rental agreement per month more than agreeable and youonly have to pay the rent for as long as the glue holds up!Luv you man!Mike In a message dated 4/12/2002 9:36:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: I have use Epon a Urea like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those who have used it what advice do youhave?....any caveats? Adam Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from homes-sold@attbi.com Sat Apr 13 12:23:04 2002 g3DHN3406789 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:23:03 - Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:22:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Go get them Bill, why don't you tell us how you really feel? Incidentally, Iagree with you. Driving by a Sears store yesterday and decided to go in and look at their"Lady Kenmore" Stanley Bench Plane for $32 + change. Anyone have a goodmethod to adjust the throat on one of these toads?Now I know why, and feel better about spending $200+ more for a LN #2.What's that old saying? "You get what you pay for." Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our colonies revolted because oftaxation without representation--ie., extortion in the face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim! They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, be protected by American laws andreap the rewards of the American free enterprise system, but they want toescape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporateheadquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal $35,000 fee) toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoy are now to be paid by allthe rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure.I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claimthey are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. Howabout a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Apr 13 12:35:51 2002 g3DHZp407290 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:35:51 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16wRR9-0007xm-00; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:35:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Bill: Is Stanley doing something illegal here? If so, maybe our government will elect to get involved...they seem topick- and-choose which laws they care to enforce. If not, those of us who don't have a vested interest should lighten up onthe corporate bashing and set our sights ( those of us who are USA citizens)on the federal government and its' bureaucratic monster. We have a voice inthat arena. RegardsEd ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools . In my book, that STINKS! Bill from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 13 12:45:21 2002 g3DHjK407645 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:45:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools M-D Yes, yes. All this is true. Yet revenue from ALL our various taxes floatsthe boat. There are many, many instances of government excess,mismanagement and misrepresentation, and certainly there are manybudgetsinto which the many tax revenues are deposited, transferred and withdrawn.But every public service that is not paid for from one source of revenuemust be paid for from another. In the larger picture, it matters littlewhich taxes are said to pay for what. American citizens enjoy govenmentservices and protection as surely as do American businesses. So why shouldwe suppose that, for some, there should be a "free lunch?" Apparently, Stanley and others would like to enjoy the meal, but be excused from the table before the bill arrives. This is not illegal, but it STINKS!Oh well, you say, "business is business," and the name of the game hasalways been to "reduce one's exposure". Perhaps so, but someone else willneed to pick up the tab (and the tab is always there). Put differently, theproblem just gets floated downstream--or filtered down the economic foodchain to those of us who are strung out on the lower links and cannot enjoyStanley's privilege (or prerogative) simply to move a filing cabinet toBermuda. Only the larger corporations can demand of our government that they begranted representation without taxation (and, yes, the IRS makes thispossible), while the rest of us who lack leverage bear the burden. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools There are many, many corporations that take advantage of off-shore havens -- Ford Motor Co., and Boeing Aircraft to name but two. This is nothing new under the sun, and one needn't move to the locale simply to do it. It is quite easily done through the use of legal fictions, i.e., corporations and trusts.There is no responsibility to pay taxes unless one has specifically contracted into so doing. Even then there is no duty to increase one's taxes, and every legitimate means to reduce one's tax exposure is well recognized, documented, and approved of by the IRS, and may be utilized. Again, this is nothing new.Despite common belief, the "taxes" taken in as "income taxes" does notpay to run the government. This has never been the case. If you read the "President's Private Sector Survey on Cost Control", commonly referred to as the "Grace Commission Report" you will gleanmany things, one of which is that in 1984, the year of its publication, 100% of the "income tax" collected was applied against the interest of the national debt. Nothing's ever changed, either. The government operates on a deficit because this is what floats the economy. Taxes are a way of controlling, or manipulating the economy. They also give people a faith in the funny money -- makes it near and dear to them. Balanced budgets and budget surpluses are a smoke and mirror trick. They sound really good, play well for the people, but are nothing more than panderings.I'm not going into it, period, but if any should care to make the study, you will be at first incredulous, then angered by the depths of deception under which the people of this country labor. M-D From: "Jerry Partrick" Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the Stanley Tool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a movethat is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing newbut rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will paymanymillions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand plane users. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existence and therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be saidthat it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them when they purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporationsdodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the commonman/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 13 12:53:57 2002 g3DHrv408026 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:53:57 - Subject: Re: wd40 Ted, Go to Brownell's site and look for any number of protective lubricants forguns. One time-honored lubricant is called Rangoon oil, but there are manyothers available as well. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: wd40 I've been using WD40 for years to wipe down my saltwater reels. So far noproblems, probably because I also clean them in a solvent periodically.What kind of protection would you recommend instead? from dongreife@hotmail.com Sat Apr 13 13:04:27 2002 g3DI4Q408591 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:04:26 - Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:04:16 -0700 HTTP; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:04:16 GMT Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, FILETIME=[A0786E30:01C1E315] semi-political activity. That's not to some political jokes and jabs.... one organization that I take vehement dollars a year in "charitable" to organizations on the FBI's terrorist tax exempt status for this a couple of their infamous little against it." - peta co-founded Ingrid animals out or burn them down." - animal experimentation,' I say `Yeah, well, but I am just not behind that kind of show, celebrity spokesperson for peta. about by human manipulation." -ingrid Ingrid Newkirk animals, good for human health and good disease. absurd associative statements that was broiler chickens will die this year Join theworld's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here from rmoon@ida.net Sat Apr 13 14:05:07 2002 g3DJ56409697 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:05:06 - 0000 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, --------------6FD48096B4F141DAC285D21B Don I know I am not original, but I always believed that PETA was an acronymfor" people eating tasty anumals." Ralph Don Greife wrote: GOOD SHOW,,,J.J. Don GreifeFrom: "J&J in Paradise" Subject: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,,Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:00:30 -0400 Hi All I usually don't get to excited about petitions, especially semi-political activity. That's not to say I'm not just a little conservative and do send around some political jokes and jabs.... BUT PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) is one organization that I take vehement exception to. This ecco-terrorist group collects over $10M dollars a year in "charitable" contributions and then turns around and gives the monies to organizations on the FBI's terrorist list, such as Earth Liberation Front (ELF). I would strongly urge you to sign this petition to remove the tax exempt status for this organization. http://www.petitiononline.com/rvkptaex/petition.html If your not familiar with the stellar group of idiots, here are a couple of their infamous little quotes: "even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." - peta co-founded Ingrid Newkirk. "I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the animals out or burn them down." - again, ingrid newkirk. "To those people who say, 'My father is alive because of animal experimentation,' I say `Yeah, well, good for you. This dog died so your father could live.' Sorry, but I am just not behind that kind of trade off." BILL MAHER, host of "Politically Incorrect" tv show, celebrity spokesperson for peta. "Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." -ingrid newkirk. "When it comes to feelings, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." - Ingrid Newkirk "I openly hope that it comes here. - It would be good for animals, good for human health and good This last quote has got to be one of the most insidiously absurd associative statements that was ever made. "Six million Jews died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughter houses." -Ingrid newkirk LoveJimmyAn Old Parrot HeadIn the Conch Republic,Just South of Reality -----------------------------------------------------------------------Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------6FD48096B4F141DAC285D21B DonI know I am not original, but I always believed that PETA was an acronymfor" people eating tasty anumals."RalphDon Greife wrote: Subject: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,,Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:00:30 -0400 Hi All I usually don't get to excited about petitions, especially semi-politicalactivity. That's not tosay I'm not just a little conservative and do send around some politicaljokes and jabs.... BUT PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) is oneorganizationthat I take vehementexception to. This ecco-terrorist group collects over $10M dollarsa year in "charitable"contributions and then turns around and gives the monies toorganizationson the FBI's terroristlist, such as Earth Liberation Front (ELF). I would strongly urge you to sign this petition to remove the taxexempt status for thisorganization. http://www.petitiononline.com/rvkptaex/petition.html If your not familiar with the stellar group of idiots, here are acouple of their infamous littlequotes: "even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be againstit." - peta co-founded IngridNewkirk. "I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the animalsout or burn them down." -again, ingrid newkirk. "To those people who say, 'My father is alive because of animalexperimentation,'I say `Yeah, well,good for you. This dog died so your father could live.' Sorry, butI am just not behind that kind oftrade off." BILL MAHER, host of "Politically Incorrect" tv show,celebrityspokesperson for peta. "Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about byhuman manipulation." -ingridnewkirk. "When it comes to feelings, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." - IngridNewkirk "I openly hope that it comes here. - It would be good for animals,good for human health and good This last quote has got to be one of the most insidiously absurdassociativestatements that wasever made. "Six million Jews died in concentration camps, but six billion broilerchickens will die this yearin slaughter houses." -Ingrid newkirk LoveJimmyAn Old Parrot HeadIn the Conch Republic,Just South of Reality Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. ClickHere --http://www.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------6FD48096B4F141DAC285D21B-- from dybam@oct.net Sat Apr 13 14:35:18 2002 g3DJZH410488 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:35:17 -0500 Subject: Re: cork seal Communications, Inc. Has anyone on the site used Cork Seal on their cork grips, if so do you =recommend it? Any problems with it? Thanks,Mark Subject: Polyurethane glue? I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am wondering about =Polyurethane glue. I would like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those =who have used it what advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam Has anyone on the site used Cork Seal on their cork = Thanks,Mark ----- Original Message ----- Vigil Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 = PMSubject: Polyurethane =glue? I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde = caveats? Adam from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 13 14:59:35 2002 g3DJxY411093 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:59:34 -0500 helo=default) id 16wTgI-0000Gr-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:59:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Yep, you're right, Bill, and it is Congress who has set the system up tooperate in the most unfairmethod you outline below. They are where the buck stops -- literally. Yet,people keep on voting forthis party or that in the vain hope that something will change for the better,and nothing everdoes. The juggernaut keeps steam-rolling over everything in its path,regardless of which politicalparty may be in majority power, with bones of appeasement thrown to thepeople in order that thenext election might prove beneficial to whomever is doing the bone-throwing.The people, in theirapathy, are loathe to do anything except bitch about it all -- and await thenext bone.Interesting point about it not mattering which taxes are said to pay for what.Interesting, sincemost people assume there is a giant Social Security Trust Fund into which allthe SS money isdeposited. Not so, SS monies have always gone into general revenue, and isspent on who knows what.Wonder why the SS program is in trouble? Wonder why the pols see fit toperpetuate the lie of thetrust fund?Timothy suggested buying Lie-Nielsen tools. Good idea. They are of extremelyhigh quality, and Isuspect that they not only provide jobs for the local economy, but also payall US and State taxesdue and owing. As the saying goes, "You get what you pay for." M-D M-D Yes, yes. All this is true. Yet revenue from ALL our various taxes floatsthe boat. There are many, many instances of government excess,mismanagement and misrepresentation, and certainly there are manybudgetsinto which the many tax revenues are deposited, transferred and withdrawn.But every public service that is not paid for from one source of revenuemust be paid for from another. In the larger picture, it matters littlewhich taxes are said to pay for what. American citizens enjoy govenmentservices and protection as surely as do American businesses. So why shouldwe suppose that, for some, there should be a "free lunch?" Apparently, Stanley and others would like to enjoy the meal, but be excused from the table before the bill arrives. This is not illegal, but it STINKS!Oh well, you say, "business is business," and the name of the game hasalways been to "reduce one's exposure". Perhaps so, but someone else willneed to pick up the tab (and the tab is always there). Put differently, theproblem just gets floated downstream--or filtered down the economic foodchain to those of us who are strung out on the lower links and cannot enjoyStanley's privilege (or prerogative) simply to move a filing cabinet toBermuda. Only the larger corporations can demand of our government that they begranted representation without taxation (and, yes, the IRS makes thispossible), while the rest of us who lack leverage bear the burden. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools There are many, many corporations that take advantage of off-shore avens -- Ford Motor Co., and Boeing Aircraft to name but two. This is nothing new under the sun, and one needn't move to the locale simply to do it. It is quite easily done through the use of legal fictions, i.e., corporations and trusts.There is no responsibility to pay taxes unless one has specifically contracted into so doing. Even then there is no duty to increase one's taxes, and every legitimate means to reduce one's tax exposure is well recognized, documented, and approved of by the IRS, and may be utilized. Again, this is nothing new.Despite common belief, the "taxes" taken in as "income taxes" does notpay to run the government. This has never been the case. If you read the "President's Private Sector Survey on Cost Control", commonly referred to as the "Grace Commission Report" you will gleanmany things, one of which is that in 1984, the year of its publication, 100% of the "income tax" collected was applied against the interest of the national debt. Nothing's ever changed, either. The government operates on a deficit because this is what floats the economy. Taxes are a way of controlling, or manipulating the economy. They also give people a faith in the funny money -- makes it near and dear to them. Balanced budgets and budget surpluses are a smoke and mirror trick. They sound really good, play well for the people, but are nothing more than panderings.I'm not going into it, period, but if any should care to make the study, you will be at first incredulous, then angered by the depths of deception under which the people of this country labor. M-D From: "Jerry Partrick" Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the Stanley Tool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a movethat is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing newbut rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will paymanymillions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand plane users. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existence and therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be saidthat it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them when they purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporationsdodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the commonman/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 13 15:04:18 2002 g3DK4I411500 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:04:18 -0500 helo=default) id 16wTku-0002Fh-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:04:16 -0400 Subject: Re: cork seal I use the U-40 Cork Seal. No problems, but it does turn the cork darker, =and it won't have that pretty, new cork look, though this only lasts =about five minutes after one starts using the rod anyway. M-D Has anyone on the site used Cork Seal on their cork grips, if so do =you recommend it? Any problems with it? Thanks,Mark I use the U-40 CorkSeal. = problems, but it does turn the cork darker, and it won't have that = cork look, though this only lasts about five minutes after one starts = rod anyway. M-D MarkDyba = Has anyone on the site used Cork Seal on their = Thanks,Mark from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 13 15:24:01 2002 g3DKO1412031 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:24:01 - ;Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:23:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Hear, hear, Bill that's good and very true. Lets boycott Stanley. Jack ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our colonies revolted because oftaxation without representation--ie., extortion in the face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim! They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, be protected by American lawsandreap the rewards of the American free enterprise system, but they wanttoescape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporateheadquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal $35,000 fee) toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoy are now to be paid by all the rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Peter Lawrence" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:32 PMSubject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure. I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claimthey are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. How about a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete from kenealyj@gwi.net Sat Apr 13 16:31:42 2002 g3DLVf413263 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:31:41 - for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:31:37 - Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Maybe it is because of the confiscatory tax system in the US??????? Here in Maine, we have the highest tax burden of any state and the lowestexpendable income per capita in the Union and guess what? the economy inMaine sucks, it always sucks- even when things are booming, so what do theydo, raise taxes and add user fees. Has any nation in the history of theworld ever taxed its way into prosperity????? Besides that, I believe that income tax is immoral-it punishes people forworking hard and being successful- it also promotes dishonesty. If we didaway with the witholding tax, so that people had to write a check, just asbusinesses do, there would be a tax revolt in the US. I don't blame Stanley- they leave the US, just as businesses leave Maine. John K ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Hear, hear, Bill that's good and very true. Lets boycott Stanley. Jack ----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:58 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our colonies revolted because oftaxation without representation--ie., extortion in the face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim! They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, be protected by American laws and reap the rewards of the American free enterprise system, but they want to escape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporate headquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal $35,000 fee) toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoy are now to be paid by all the rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Peter Lawrence" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:32 PMSubject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure. I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claim they are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. How about a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete from dblanken@rica.net Sat Apr 13 17:21:06 2002 g3DML6414116 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:21:06 - Subject: epoxy failure I've had two rods with ferrule/epoxy failure. No extreme conditions, =just fishing (55-65 degrees), and separating 2 pieces. As I recall, =both ferrules were glued with Epon (I was out of Devcon 2-ton which I =usually use). Anyone know of specific Epon limitations or did I just = Thanks, David I've had two rods with ferrule/epoxy = extreme conditions, just fishing (55-65 degrees), and separating 2 = Thanks,David from saweiss@flash.net Sat Apr 13 17:32:01 2002 g3DMW0414481 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:32:00 -0500 g3DMVuK21428; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:31:56 -0400 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Organization: Prodigy Internet How about: EPA rulesOSHA rulesHandicap rulesEEO rulesWage escalation from increases in minimum wageUnionsSuits from violations (real or imagined) of all the aforementioned No wonder companies go offshore. The ones that don't, often sink into thequicksand. Maybe Stanley should have given up and provided us with Chineseblock planes. They probably will, anyway. I don't know if they make anythinghere anymore. Most of what they sell is hardware stuff.Steve ; M-D Yes, yes. All this is true. Yet revenue from ALL our various taxes floats the boat. There are many, many instances of government excess,mismanagement and misrepresentation, and certainly there are manybudgetsinto which the many tax revenues are deposited, transferred andwithdrawn.But every public service that is not paid for from one source of revenuemust be paid for from another. In the larger picture, it matters littlewhich taxes are said to pay for what. American citizens enjoy govenmentservices and protection as surely as do American businesses. So why should we suppose that, for some, there should be a "free lunch?" Apparently, Stanley and others would like to enjoy the meal, but be excused from the table before the bill arrives. This is not illegal, but it STINKS! Oh well, you say, "business is business," and the name of the game hasalways been to "reduce one's exposure". Perhaps so, but someone else willneed to pick up the tab (and the tab is always there). Put differently, the problem just gets floated downstream--or filtered down the economic foodchain to those of us who are strung out on the lower links and cannot enjoy Stanley's privilege (or prerogative) simply to move a filing cabinet toBermuda. Only the larger corporations can demand of our government that they begranted representation without taxation (and, yes, the IRS makes thispossible), while the rest of us who lack leverage bear the burden. Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 7:47 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools There are many, many corporations that take advantage of off-shore havens -- Ford Motor Co., and Boeing Aircraft to name but two. This is nothing new under the sun, and one needn't move to the locale simply to do it. It is quite easily done through the use of legal fictions, i.e., corporations and trusts.There is no responsibility to pay taxes unless one has specifically contracted into so doing. Even then there is no duty to increase one's taxes, and every legitimate means to reduce one's tax exposure is well recognized, documented, and approved of by the IRS, and may be utilized. Again, this is nothing new.Despite common belief, the "taxes" taken in as "income taxes" does not pay to run the government. This has never been the case. If you read the "President's Private Sector Survey on Cost Control", commonly referred to as the "Grace Commission Report" you will glean many things, one of which is that in 1984, the year of its publication, 100% of the "income tax" collected was applied against the interest of the national debt. Nothing's ever changed, either. The government operates on a deficit because this is what floats the economy. Taxes are a way of controlling, or manipulating the economy. They also give people a faith in the funny money -- makes it near and dear to them. Balanced budgets and budget surpluses are a smoke and mirror trick.They sound really good, play well for the people, but are nothing more than panderings.I'm not going into it, period, but if any should care to make the study, you will be at first incredulous, then angered by the depths of deception under which the people of this country labor. M-D From: "Jerry Partrick" Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the Stanley Tool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a move that is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing new but rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will pay many millions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand plane users. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existence and therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be said that it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them when they purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporations dodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the common man/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 13 17:55:13 2002 g3DMtD415004 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:55:13 -0500 helo=default) id 16wWQH-0002wf-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:55:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools And you may have noticed that the quality of Stanley tools is nowhere nearwhat it once was. Surelythey didn't do this to increase the bottom line?Here's another thought for those who may not like what is going on withStanley, yet may own stockin other companies who do, or will do the same: You have voting rights witheach share of stock. Besure and vote against such measures as the move to an off-shore tax haven,or that will result inless tax exposure to the company -- at the expense of stock dividends anddecreased earnings whichwill ensure that the stock price doesn't rise, and the PE ratio won't inflateeven more.Oh, what a tangled web we weave, . . . M-D How about: EPA rulesOSHA rulesHandicap rulesEEO rulesWage escalation from increases in minimum wageUnionsSuits from violations (real or imagined) of all the aforementioned No wonder companies go offshore. The ones that don't, often sink into thequicksand. Maybe Stanley should have given up and provided us with Chineseblock planes. They probably will, anyway. I don't know if they make anythinghere anymore. Most of what they sell is hardware stuff.Steve ; M-D Yes, yes. All this is true. Yet revenue from ALL our various taxes floats the boat. There are many, many instances of government excess,mismanagement and misrepresentation, and certainly there are manybudgetsinto which the many tax revenues are deposited, transferred andwithdrawn.But every public service that is not paid for from one source of revenuemust be paid for from another. In the larger picture, it matters littlewhich taxes are said to pay for what. American citizens enjoy govenmentservices and protection as surely as do American businesses. So why should we suppose that, for some, there should be a "free lunch?" Apparently, Stanley and others would like to enjoy the meal, but be excused from the table before the bill arrives. This is not illegal, but it STINKS! Oh well, you say, "business is business," and the name of the game hasalways been to "reduce one's exposure". Perhaps so, but someone else willneed to pick up the tab (and the tab is always there). Put differently, the problem just gets floated downstream--or filtered down the economic foodchain to those of us who are strung out on the lower links and cannot enjoy Stanley's privilege (or prerogative) simply to move a filing cabinet toBermuda. Only the larger corporations can demand of our government that they begranted representation without taxation (and, yes, the IRS makes thispossible), while the rest of us who lack leverage bear the burden. Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 7:47 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools There are many, many corporations that take advantage of off-shore havens -- Ford Motor Co., and Boeing Aircraft to name but two. This is nothing new under the sun, and one needn't move to the locale simply to do it. It is quite easily done through the use of legal fictions, i.e., corporations and trusts.There is no responsibility to pay taxes unless one has specifically contracted into so doing. Even then there is no duty to increase one's taxes, and every legitimate means to reduce one's tax exposure is well recognized, documented, and approved of by the IRS, and may be utilized. Again, this is nothing new.Despite common belief, the "taxes" taken in as "income taxes" does not pay to run the government. This has never been the case. If you read the "President's Private Sector Survey on Cost Control", commonly referred to as the "Grace Commission Report" you will glean many things, one of which is that in 1984, the year of its publication, 100% of the "income tax" collected was applied against the interest of the national debt. Nothing's ever changed, either. The government operates on a deficit because this is what floats the economy. Taxes are a way of controlling, or manipulating the economy. They also give people a faith in the funny money -- makes it near and dear to them. Balanced budgets and budget surpluses are a smoke and mirror trick.They sound really good, play well for the people, but are nothing more than panderings.I'm not going into it, period, but if any should care to make the study, you will be at first incredulous, then angered by the depths of deception under which the people of this country labor. M-D From: "Jerry Partrick" Fellow rodmakers,I think I am being somewhat of a curmudgeon but I'm disturbed at the Stanley Tool Co. It's more than a political question but perhaps important. I understand Stanley is moving its headquarters to Bermuda! It is a move that is directly related to taxation of corporate structures. Nothing new but rather than paying many millions of dollars in taxes to the ourgovernment, Stanley is choosing to move to Bermuda where it will pay many millions less to the Bermuda government. I don't know where I could pose such a question to so many expert hand plane users. I also consider this group some of the best tool users in existence and therefore I pick on you all to comment on this question. Should we be concerned about such things? At first glance it may be said that it's a way of lowering the cost of tools to the consumer but on theother hand, are tool users likely to see any reduction in cost to them when they purchase tools? One thing that bothers me is that large corporations dodge their responsibility of paying taxes while leaving it to the common man/woman to pay the taxes and make up the difference for that thecorporations that have headquarters offshore don't. I mean to provoke thought... and stimulate discussion.. Thanks for your comment, Jerry from jfreeman@cyberport.com Sat Apr 13 18:30:38 2002 g3DNUb415682 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:30:37 - Subject: Re: Carbide Irons spam. Man, I'll second that. I've been using a Stanley all day for rough planning andpicking up the L/N for the final .020 or so. My hand hurts from the Stanleyand just loves the L/N - just the right size for me. Anyway, I haven't triedto plane my forms all day, and I haven't done half of the sharpening Iusually do. Jim----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Carbide Irons Troy;If you are just trying to cut down on the sharpening, then groove thesole of your plane, or get one from Lie Nielsen with the groove alreadyin it.john "Miller, Troy" wrote: A year or so back, you may recall that I attempted to make some plane irons from A2 tool steel. I took them up to Bob N's and we evaluated them. Not impressive. I shelved the project. Well last week, Bob M sent us a link to a summary of cryogenic treatment of high alloy steel, which resurrected this to do the slow freeze and re-temper for under 20 bucks per unit, and then you have to include the raw material and machining time. Not cost-effective, might as well buy from Ron Hock. Well there was a big show in Houston this week called HouTex, which is put on by the Society of Manufacturing Engineers. What a show! All kinds of lathes, mills, EDM, measuring instruments, numerics, CAD/CAM software and controls, etc. I had another brainstorm (OK, maybe it was just a sprinkle). What if I could EDM a 30 degree bevel onto carbide strips in a costeffective way, and then attach to a plane iron blank, like Harry and maybe some others are doing? So I costed the carbide, about 3 bucks a pop. The EDM is about 75 dollars an hour, and it was estimated that they could cut at least 10 to 15 perhour, including setups. So if I had some junk irons (new Stanley or Record irons) that were not being used, I could have the cutting edgesbrazed/soldered to them. One of the things we do at Baker is to makedownhole cutting tools, that cut through pipe, etc. in a well. Many of our tools use carbide cutters attached securely to a tool body. I have welders that do this kind of thing day in and day out. The edge that would be left on the carbide by the EDM would be whateverangle I specify, probably 30 degrees for a nice round number (unless Harry recommends otherwise). I checked the edges on some of the display pieces they had at the show, and it was impressive. You would still need to do a final lapping on it, but it would come about as sharp as the originalStanley iron. Anyone interested in pursuing this? I'm guessing that each iron would cost somewheres around 20 to 25 bucks, if you send me your old Stanley iron. I know Randall was interested, any others? If there is enough interest, I can get more firm quotations for each step and get back to everyone. I like the Regards -- TAM from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Apr 13 18:59:01 2002 g3DNx0416394 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:59:00 -0500 helo=oemcomputer) id 16wXPz-0000H7-00; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:58:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools I'm guessing Stanley's quality has diminished due to the lack of demand forthat former quality; - manufacturing expense versus sales revenue doeseffect profits, - Econ. 101. If you're not happy with the decisions made by the Board of Directors of thecorporation that you've invested in, don't throw a Molotov Cocktail or bitchto the nearest listener, sell the damned shares - Corp. Finance 101. If your elected representative(s) believe(s) that the Government and theiruse of your tax dollars is the answer to all your problems: vote their buttout of office. - World History (8th grade) and walking in my own shoes for alot of years. Sorry for the bandwidth, probably time to take this off-list. Regards.Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools And you may have noticed that the quality of Stanley tools is nowhere near what it once was. Surely from KyleDruey@aol.com Sat Apr 13 19:12:32 2002 g3E0CV416813 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:12:31 -0500 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:12:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Another option to consider is to purchase a vintage Stanley smoothing plane, a No 3 or 4, if you are like me and dont want to pony up and buy the LN. I got too frustrated with ebay and didnt feel confident in my vintage tool knowledge to know if I was getting a good tool or not. I resorted to buying a No 3 from a tool restorer/reseller: www.oldtools.com Falcon Wood restores the tool, cleans it up and squares to sole and sides. They cost more than ebay or the flea market, but it all works out the same considering you are paying them to restore the tool instead of you using your own time. They have a 7 day inspection period and the tool can be returned with it. They have the Stanley Nos 3 & 4 bench planes ranging from $70 to $90 and all restored, many of them from the so called "sweet heart" era in that they are type 13 to 18. Kyle In a message dated 04/13/2002 4:59:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: I'm guessing Stanley's quality has diminished due to the lack of demand forthat former quality; - manufacturing expense versus sales revenue doeseffect profits, - Econ. 101.If you're not happy with the decisions made by the Board of Directors of the corporation that you've invested in, don't throw a Molotov Cocktail or bitch to the nearest listener, sell the damned shares - Corp. Finance 101.If your elected representative(s) believe(s) that the Government andtheiruse of your tax dollars is the answer to all your problems: vote their buttout of office. - World History (8th grade) and walking in my own shoes for a lot of years.Sorry for the bandwidth, probably time to take this off- list.Regards.Ed----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:52 PMSubject: Re: Stanley ToolsAnd you may have noticed that the quality of Stanley tools isnowhere near what it once was. Surely ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xj03.mx.aol.com (rly-xj03.mail.aol.com Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:59:57 -0400 rly- Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:59:27 -0400 g3DNxL416433; Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net[207. g3DNx0416394 Received: from pool-63.50.64.119.rlgh.grid.net ([63.50.64.119] helo=oemcomputer) Message-ID: From: "Ed Riddle" Cc: References: 992895d0@default> ffe09080$2e8e3a41@saweiss> Subject: Re: Stanley ToolsDate: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:59:28 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 13 19:14:14 2002 g3E0ED417036 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:14:13 - Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Yeah, right, Jack. That'll show them who's boss! By golly, they can't messaround with the likes of us amateur rod makers! They'll be singing adifferent tune tomorrow. Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Hear, hear, Bill that's good and very true. Lets boycott Stanley. Jack ----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:58 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our colonies revolted because oftaxation without representation--ie., extortion in the face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim! They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, be protected by American laws and reap the rewards of the American free enterprise system, but they want to escape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporate headquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal $35,000 fee) toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoy are now to be paid by all the rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Peter Lawrence" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:32 PMSubject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure. I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claim they are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. How about a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete from HomeyDKlown@att.net Sat Apr 13 19:15:41 2002 g3E0Fe417256 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:15:40 - ;Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:15:34 +0000 Subject: RE: epoxy failure David, I've had strips split around the glue joints, but no delaminations withEpon. My Thramer 444 cracked wide open at the grip, but I blame the cane,not the glue. It made a neat popping sound when it did it too! Now all Ihave to do is find the time to fix it! [;-)] Dennis -----Original Message----- Subject: epoxy failure I've had two rods with ferrule/epoxy failure. No extreme conditions, justfishing (55-65 degrees), and separating 2 pieces. As I recall, bothferrules were glued with Epon (I was out of Devcon 2-ton which I usuallyuse). Anyone know of specific Epon limitations or did I just mix it wrong? Thanks, David David, had strips split around the glue joints, but no delaminations with = My Thramer 444 cracked wide open at the grip, but I blame the cane, not = have to do is find the time to fix it! ;-) owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Behalf Of David BlankenshipSent: Saturday, April 13,2002 = failure I've had two rods with ferrule/epoxy = Thanks, =David from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 13 19:23:39 2002 g3E0Nc417605 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:23:38 - Subject: Re: Stanley Tools John, Oh, but Stanley is NOT leaving the US. And that's the point. Apparently,Stanley wants to continue making money through the American FreeEnterprisesystem, while moving their tax status offshore. Get it? They're looking Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Maybe it is because of the confiscatory tax system in the US??????? Here in Maine, we have the highest tax burden of any state and the lowestexpendable income per capita in the Union and guess what? the economy inMaine sucks, it always sucks- even when things are booming, so what do they do, raise taxes and add user fees. Has any nation in the history of theworld ever taxed its way into prosperity????? Besides that, I believe that income tax is immoral-it punishes people forworking hard and being successful- it also promotes dishonesty. If we didaway with the witholding tax, so that people had to write a check, just asbusinesses do, there would be a tax revolt in the US. I don't blame Stanley- they leave the US, just as businesses leave Maine. John K ----- Original Message -----From: "Jacques Follweiler" Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 4:23 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools Hear, hear, Bill that's good and very true. Lets boycott Stanley. Jack ----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:58 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our colonies revolted because of taxation without representation--ie., extortion in the face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim! They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, be protected by Americanlaws and reap the rewards of the American free enterprise system, but theywant to escape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporate headquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal $35,000 fee) toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoy are now to be paid by all the rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Peter Lawrence" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:32 PMSubject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to death go figure. I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claim they are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. How about a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete from channer@frontier.net Sat Apr 13 19:31:46 2002 g3E0Vk417935 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:31:46 - Subject: Re: epoxy failure David;It's pretty hard to mix Epon wrong, the range is from less than 25%hardener to more that 50%, anywhere in there and the stuff will stick. Ithink it more likely that the inside of the ferrule wasn't clean enough,still some flux residue or cutting oil in it, or perhaps a widetemperature fluxuation. Epon is a rather hard and brittle epoxy, forferrrules, I would suggest Accraglas gel, which stays a bit flexible,even tho it sticks like mad to anything it gets on.I've had nothing butproblems with every Devcon product I've tried, so it doesn't get anyrecommendations from me.john David Blankenship wrote: I've had two rods with ferrule/epoxy failure. No extreme conditions,just fishing (55-65 degrees), and separating 2 pieces. As I recall,both ferrules were glued with Epon (I was out of Devcon 2-ton which Iusually use). Anyone know of specific Epon limitations or did I justmix it wrong? Thanks, David from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Apr 13 20:14:44 2002 g3E1Eh418895 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:14:43 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16wYbD-0005Gq-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:14:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Stanley Tools I'm trying to ease out the back door on this but I can't resist one more; If every taxpayer in this country made only one tax payment per year, saywriting a check on April 15 (forget the payroll deductions), Stanley wouldbe inundated with:"How do you do dat?" No more, I promiseEd ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools John, Oh, but Stanley is NOT leaving the US. And that's the point. Apparently, from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Sat Apr 13 20:17:34 2002 g3E1HY419167 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:17:34 - Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:17:28 -0700 Sun, 14 Apr 2002 01:17:28 GMT Subject: Re: Epoxy Failure FILETIME=[24C72960:01C1E352] David-Hotmelt ferrule cement and pin the bastards. Small amount of work for aTON of peace of mind and I've never had a problem since. Thanks AJ![;-)] Eamon _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Sat Apr 13 22:24:57 2002 g3E3Ou421015 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:24:56 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16wabH-0004GO-00; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:22:47 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, --------------020902090802080603070801 Hell yes, I'll sign it. I'm still boiling because I found out late last night the Hanoi Jane was here in little ole' Dalton GA yesterday, dedicating a battered women's shelter. She's in the same crowd of eco-Nazis. If her visit had been publicized beforehand there would have been hell to pay 'cause there are a lot of guys around who did not accept her apology. Just get me a copy of the petition .......... Don Greife wrote: GOOD SHOW,,,J.J. Don Greife exempt status,, >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:00:30 -0400 > >Hi All > >I usually don't get to excited about petitions, especially semi-political activity. That's not to >say I'm not just a little conservative and do send around some political jokes and jabs.... > BUT PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) is one organization that I take vehement >exception to. This ecco-terrorist group collects over $10M dollars a year in "charitable" >contributions and then turns around and gives the monies to organizations on the FBI's terrorist >list, such as Earth Liberation Front (ELF). > >I would strongly urge you to sign this petition to remove the tax exempt status for this >organization. > http://www.petitiononline.com/rvkptaex/petition.html > > >If your not familiar with the stellar group of idiots, here are a couple of their infamous little >quotes: > >"even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." - peta co-founded Ingrid >Newkirk. "I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the animals out or burn them down." - >again, ingrid newkirk. > >"To those people who say, 'My father is alive because of animal experimentation,' I say `Yeah, well, >good for you. This dog died so your father could live.' Sorry, but I am just not behind that kind of trade off." BILL MAHER, host of "Politically Incorrect" tv show, celebrity spokesperson for peta. > >"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." -ingrid newkirk. > >"When it comes to feelings, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." - Ingrid Newkirk > >"I openly hope that it comes here. - It would be good for animals, good for human health and good >for the environment." - Ingrid newkirk on hoof and mouth disease. > >This last quote has got to be one of the most insidiously absurd associative statements that was >ever made. > >"Six million Jews died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year >in slaughter houses." -Ingrid newkirk > > >Love >Jimmy >An Old Parrot Head >In the Conch Republic, >Just South of Reality > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here --------------020902090802080603070801 night the Hanoi Jane was here in little ole' Dalton GA yesterday, dedicating visit had been publicized beforehand there would have been hell to pay 'cause Just get me a copy of the petition .......... Don Greife wrote: 08:00:30 petitions, little conservative and do send around some political jokes and jabs.... and then turns around and gives the monies to organizations on the FBI's strongly urge you to sign this petition to remove the tax exempt status for research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." - peta co-founded newkirk. off." BILL MAHER, host of "Politically Incorrect" tv show, celebrityspokesperson brought comes openly hope that it comes here. - It would be good for animals, good for Republic, Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here --------------020902090802080603070801-- from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Apr 14 07:47:59 2002 g3EClx427322 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 07:47:59 -0500 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:47:43 -0400 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen" at theIowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hit with acream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment of animals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely a non-vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good idea, but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can not speak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to torture harmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from rcurry@ttlc.net Sun Apr 14 08:22:05 2002 g3EDM4428337 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:22:04 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Mark, Its been done. Back in the 20's, I believe, G.K. Chesterton, piques by the strong vega movement of his day proposed a group defending the rights of minerals. His slogan was -- "Why should salt suffer?"Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants whichopposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can not speak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to torture harmless fish! from kenealyj@gwi.net Sun Apr 14 08:32:06 2002 g3EDW6428682 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:32:06 - Subject: Re: Stanley Tools Yes, Bill, I do get it. You just made my point. The confiscatory tax system that we have in this country has caused peopleand companies to find ways around it. John k----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Stanley Tools John, Oh, but Stanley is NOT leaving the US. And that's the point. Apparently,Stanley wants to continue making money through the American Free Enterprise system, while moving their tax status offshore. Get it? They're looking Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "John Kenealy" Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 5:31 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools Maybe it is because of the confiscatory tax system in the US??????? Here in Maine, we have the highest tax burden of any state and the lowest expendable income per capita in the Union and guess what? the economyinMaine sucks, it always sucks- even when things are booming, so what do they do, raise taxes and add user fees. Has any nation in the history of theworld ever taxed its way into prosperity????? Besides that, I believe that income tax is immoral-it punishes people for working hard and being successful- it also promotes dishonesty. If we did away with the witholding tax, so that people had to write a check, just as businesses do, there would be a tax revolt in the US. I don't blame Stanley- they leave the US, just as businesses leave Maine. John K ----- Original Message -----From: "Jacques Follweiler" Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 4:23 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools Hear, hear, Bill that's good and very true. Lets boycott Stanley. Jack ----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Cc: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:58 PMSubject: Re: Stanley Tools Peter, I think if you checked, you'd see that our colonies revolted because of taxation without representation--ie., extortion in the face ofpolitical/legal disenfranchisement. That's a far cry from what Stanley Tool could claim! They want toparticipate in the American marketplace, be protected by American laws and reap the rewards of the American free enterprise system, but they want to escape paying their fair share of American taxes. So they move corporate headquarters (in name only, accompanied by a nominal $35,000 fee)toBermuda--while the benefits they continue to enjoy are now to be paid by all the rest of us. In my book, that STINKS! Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Peter Lawrence" Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 12:32 PMSubject: RE: Stanley Tools Isn't it ironic that one reason the original colonies revolted from Britain was because of being over taxed. Look at us now taxed to deathgo figure. I heard on the news yesterday that the state of California has a group that is trying to put a tax on soda and other sugar drinks because they claim they are making the kids fat. I guess they have to go after something else now they have taxed cigarettes to the point too many people of quit. How about a tax on stupidity? Well I guess that would never be approved because it would make most of the politicians poor. Tight lines, Pete from harms1@pa.net Sun Apr 14 08:33:22 2002 g3EDXK428859 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:33:21 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Whoa! The "Pork Queen"??!! Now, there's an "endangered species!" Ididn't know women would compete for that in public. (Well, alright, alright! Would you rather hear more about Stanley Tool?) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen" at the Iowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hit with a cream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment ofanimals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely anon- vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One thataccomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can notspeak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed ofyourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to tortureharmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from bob@downandacross.com Sun Apr 14 08:49:45 2002 g3EDnh429397 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:49:44 -0500 Subject: RE: PETA, good ideas gone bad Bill Clinton was recently at the University of Buffalo and despite my neverhaving given him much credit before, he made great sense. His finalstatements were regarding the Taliban and why their type was bad news forthe rest of the world. Clinton brought up the point that fundamentalists ofany type believe that there is only one truth, and that one truth gives themthe ability to act against others with impunity. Since they are right, theycan treat others (infidels) in any manner they feel. He said that the thingthat kept civilized folk from doing these attrocities was their humblebelief that maybe there is more than one truth or maybe "we could bewrong."A simple, but powerful message. I found it to be very profound.Anyway, I am sure that we would all agree that we do not want to seeanything or anyone suffer needlessly. PETA seems to be something thatstarted out as a good idea and was distorted by the same fundamentalismthatothers in the world use to distort religion, business, and everything inbetween. You can get by with a lot of success with using two things: commonsense and consideration for "the other side."Best regards,Bob You wrote:PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 14 08:51:27 2002 g3EDpQ429610 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:51:26 - ([209.179.146.82] helo=computer) id 16wkPc-0004Ud-00; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 06:51:24 -0700 Subject: Re: epoxy failure David, Which Epon did you use? There is a formulation that is reccomended for =ferrules and it is differant then the stuff for rods. Adam Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 3:22 PMSubject: epoxy failure I've had two rods with ferrule/epoxy failure. No extreme conditions, =just fishing (55-65 degrees), and separating 2 pieces. As I recall, =both ferrules were glued with Epon (I was out of Devcon 2-ton which I =usually use). Anyone know of specific Epon limitations or did I just = Thanks, David David, Which Epon did you use? There is a = rods. Adam ----- Original Message ----- Blankenship Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 = PMSubject: epoxy failure I've had two rods with ferrule/epoxy = Thanks, =David from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Apr 14 08:57:07 2002 g3EDv7429944 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:57:07 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, good ideas gone bad In a message dated 4/14/02 8:49:38 AM Central Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: BINGO! and people think the idea of "Can't we just get along" is a whine and mediocrity! No,it is called "Civilzation" and people who take a position and leave no room for any discussion or other opinions are destroying civilized society and civility!PETA, Fundamentalism, Extreme right and left wing politics,all of those are the keys to destroying the world in which we live.It takes more strength of character to listen to a person you disagree with than it does to attack them. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 14 09:14:25 2002 g3EEEP400364 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:14:25 -0500 ([209.179.146.231] helo=computer) id 16wklk-0006Hi-00; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 07:14:16 -0700 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Mark, You have a cat and dog? Sounds like you have one to many. I have somewonderful asia BBQ recipes if you are interested. Brings a whole new meaningto Hot Dog and Catsup! Just kidding...well maybe... Anyway at least we have the desency to kill our animals and then eat them.In the animal world they eat each other alive. I think someone needs to senda petition around stating that animals should stop eating each other alive.But maybe that wont work because the animals do not even give each otherrights. These PETA people need something to believe in...God seems to work Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment ofanimals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely anon- vegetarian>mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or from bennetts@cybermesa.com Sun Apr 14 09:19:14 2002 g3EEJD400635 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:19:13 - for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:19:12 - Subject: Phillipson Red List, I'm replacing a tip section on an old Phillipson Pacemaker (non- impregnated)and need to match the original color of the rest of the rod. The reddishbrown color is not too dark and is typical of the other early Phillipsonrods I have seen. The people at Ricks' Rods are somewhat knowledgableaboutthese rods but did not know the exact process used to get the color. I canmake bamboo almost any shade from light to dark brown but the red toningissomething else. Was this done with ammonia during heat treatment? Any suggestions? Scott from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 14 09:22:06 2002 g3EEM5400870 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:22:05 -0500 ([209.179.146.231] helo=computer) id 16wktH-0004lP-00; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 07:22:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? Mike, NYATEX? Sounds like a feminine hygiene thing. LOL I am really happy with EPON. I just have not gotten of my duff and =ordered more. Gorilla Glue is just down the street and I figured I would =give it a try. The glue up yesterday went smooth and not even very =messy. I wipe down the blank with thinner and kept the foaming down to = Oh yea and the glue will not shorten the quality of your life, unlike =epoxy and urac. Adam Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? Adam,You are more than welcome to come over to the shop and rent some =Nyatex. You will find the rental agreement per month more than agreeable =and you only have to pay the rent for as long as the glue holds up!Luv you man!Mike In a message dated 4/12/2002 9:36:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, =atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am wondering about =Polyurethane glue. I would like to give Gorilla Glue a try for those =who have used it what advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CA Mike, NYATEX? Sounds like a feminine hygiene= LOL I am really happy with EPON. I just = of my duff and ordered more. Gorilla Glue is just down the street and I = I would give it a try. The glue up yesterday went smooth and not even = messy. I wipe down the blank with thinner and kept the foaming down to = nothing. It is as hard as a rock now and stiff as a board. Oh yea and the glue will not shorten = your life, unlike epoxy and urac. Adam ----- Original Message ----- Troutgetter@aol.com = Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 = AMSubject: Re: Polyurethane =glue? than welcome to come over to the shop and rent some Nyatex. You will = rental agreement per month more than agreeable and you only have to = rent for as long as the glue holds up!Luv you = writes:I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I am = who have used it what advice do you have?....any =caveats?AdamMike's Bamboo Rod CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ = from bob@downandacross.com Sun Apr 14 09:25:35 2002 g3EEPY401152 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:25:34 -0500 14 Apr 2002 10:25:24 -0400 Subject: RE: PETA, good ideas gone bad Mark, you are right on the mark.And when I wrote "consideration for the other side, I was not defending PETAin any way." I just meant anybody else with different views.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: PETA, good ideas gone bad In a message dated 4/14/02 8:49:38 AM Central Daylight Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Sun Apr 14 09:34:59 2002 g3EEYw401555 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:34:58 - 0000 Subject: Planing Form Has there been an issue of the Planing Form come out yet this year? My =wife subscribed for me at Christmas, and I got a note from Ron and a = KurtNixa, MO Has there been an issue of the = KurtNixa,MO from jbbamboo47@yahoo.com Sun Apr 14 09:56:36 2002 g3EEua402145 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:56:36 - 14 Apr 2002 07:56:35 PDT Subject: glue 1018796195=:48629" --0-576379026-1018796195=:48629 last week i glue up a tip secton wih one of strips turn wrong side out. don'tsee it till the secton was dry.ouct! i submerged the secton in water for five days.the first two days a littledelaminate more the the next day after five days some strips still held together. used urac 185 nov 2000 never out offrig.mor than a few mins.jim ---------------------------------Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax--0-576379026-1018796195=:48629 i submerged the secton in water for five days.the first two days a littledelaminate more the the next day after five days never out of frig.mor than a few mins.jimDoYou Yahoo!?Yahoo! TaxCenter - online filing with TurboTax--0-576379026-1018796195=:48629-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 14 10:00:40 2002 g3EF0c402438 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:00:39 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, I had a bumper sticker on my BHP (mining and mineral) company land cruiser that said "Ban mining, let the bastards freeze in the dark" which was a hard one to make sense of until the GM of the Melbourne office noticed it when I parked in his private parking space.Apparently I almost lost my job over it but nobody was sure if it was for the sticker or pinching his parking spot.Either way I had to remove the sticker and myself (That person as I was referred to apparently :-))) ) and offending vehicle from the office.About 3 weeks later while in the field I got a telegram via the radio. He asked what the sticker was about not directly mind you, me being a mere field worker. My official reply was "Coal are people too you know", Cheech and Chong were popular at that time. Yes I was looking to get fired but I failed, they needed Geos at that time. I won in the end though. BHP went through a massive job culling operation about 8 months later and I survived this guy by about a week [:-)] Tony At 09:23 AM 4/14/02 -0400, Reed Curry wrote: Mark,Its been done. Back in the 20's, I believe, G.K. Chesterton, piques by the strong vega movement of his day proposed a group defending the rights of minerals. His slogan was -- "Why should salt suffer?"Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Lazybee45@aol.com wrote: Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can not speak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to torture harmless fish! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 14 10:01:58 2002 g3EF1u402639 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:01:56 -0500 Subject: RE: PETA, good ideas gone bad Basically, moderation in all things, including moderation. Tony At 09:49 AM 4/14/02 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote: Bill Clinton was recently at the University of Buffalo and despite my neverhaving given him much credit before, he made great sense. His finalstatements were regarding the Taliban and why their type was bad news forthe rest of the world. Clinton brought up the point that fundamentalists ofany type believe that there is only one truth, and that one truth gives themthe ability to act against others with impunity. Since they are right, theycan treat others (infidels) in any manner they feel. He said that the thingthat kept civilized folk from doing these attrocities was their humblebelief that maybe there is more than one truth or maybe "we could bewrong."A simple, but powerful message. I found it to be very profound.Anyway, I am sure that we would all agree that we do not want to seeanything or anyone suffer needlessly. PETA seems to be something thatstarted out as a good idea and was distorted by the same fundamentalismthatothers in the world use to distort religion, business, and everything inbetween. You can get by with a lot of success with using two things:commonsense and consideration for "the other side."Best regards,Bob You wrote:PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from bamboorodmaker@hotmail.com Sun Apr 14 10:22:51 2002 g3EFMo403206 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:22:50 - Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:22:42 -0700 Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:22:40 GMT Subject: Re: Epoxy failure FILETIME=[38501020:01C1E3C8] DavidThink about this for a second, didn't you say you had no problems withDevcon. Why fix it, if it is not broke. Keep using Devcon if it works. I havefound Devcon to be a fine ferrule epoxy with absolutely no sure other methods will also work fine. Ferrule cement and pinning works well. So does Acraglass. But, Devcon conclusion is that it is the preparation of the ferrule, rather than the type of swap inside of ferrule. Aply light amount of Devcon to cane(thin bubbles and voids in glue). I use a completly different proceedure Just one mans opinion Get your FREE downloadof MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Apr 14 10:27:19 2002 g3EFRI403476 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:27:18 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, good ideas gone bad Good point. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: PETA, good ideas gone bad Bill Clinton was recently at the University of Buffalo and despite my never having given him much credit before, he made great sense. His finalstatements were regarding the Taliban and why their type was bad newsforthe rest of the world. Clinton brought up the point that fundamentalists of any type believe that there is only one truth, and that one truth gives them the ability to act against others with impunity. Since they are right, they can treat others (infidels) in any manner they feel. He said that the thing that kept civilized folk from doing these attrocities was their humblebelief that maybe there is more than one truth or maybe "we could be wrong." A simple, but powerful message. I found it to be very profound.Anyway, I am sure that we would all agree that we do not want to seeanything or anyone suffer needlessly. PETA seems to be something thatstarted out as a good idea and was distorted by the same fundamentalism that others in the world use to distort religion, business, and everything inbetween. You can get by with a lot of success with using two things: common sense and consideration for "the other side."Best regards,Bob You wrote:PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Apr 14 10:31:19 2002 g3EFVI403726 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:31:18 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, ASPCA works on every film or TV set where animals are used to guaranteeanimals are treated fairly, and they provide lots of good, well producededucation for schools, etc. I think they are the founders of be kind toanimals week. PETA is like the radical IRA side of the animal welfare movement. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen" at the Iowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hit with a cream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment ofanimals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely anon- vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One thataccomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can notspeak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed ofyourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to tortureharmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Apr 14 10:33:17 2002 g3EFXG403955 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:33:16 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In Howell, Michigan in late summer they have a melon festival and elect a,you guessed it, Melon Queen! How can they do that with a straight face? Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Whoa! The "Pork Queen"??!! Now, there's an "endangered species!" Ididn't know women would compete for that in public. (Well, alright, alright! Would you rather hear more about Stanley Tool?) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:47 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen" atthe Iowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hit with a cream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment of animals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely anon- vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can notspeak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed ofyourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to tortureharmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Apr 14 11:02:07 2002 g3EG26404492 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:02:06 -0500 Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:02:05 PDT Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, --- "Brian D. Creek" wrote: ASPCA works on every film or TV set where animalsare used to guaranteeanimals are treated fairly, and they provide lots ofgood, well producededucation for schools, etc. I think they are thefounders of be kind toanimals week. PETA is like the radical IRA side of the animalwelfare movement. brian, i think they are more like the "brown shirts" timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Apr 14 11:07:30 2002 g3EG7T404782 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:07:29 - g3EG7RO25073; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:07:27 -0500 Subject: Re: glue I did that on one rod too. Just left it, t is anextra tip for one of my rods.To keep from doing it again, I mark the enamelside ( the bottom where it will be cut off), witha red marker on the tip sections and blue for thebutt sections. When they are assembled you can seeright away if a strip is rotated. If there is ablank in the color, a strip is in wrong.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com james bailey wrote: last week i glue up a tip secton wih one ofstrips turn wrong side out. don't see it tillthe secton was dry.ouct! i submerged the secton in water for fivedays.the first two days a little delaminate morethe the next day after five days some strips still held together. used urac 185nov 2000 never out of frig.mor than a fewmins.jim -------------------------------------------------Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sun Apr 14 11:10:15 2002 g3EGAE405025 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:10:14 -0500 Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:10:10 PDT Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, --- "Brian D. Creek" wrote: In Howell, Michigan in late summer they have a melonfestival and elect a,you guessed it, Melon Queen! How can they do thatwith a straight face? Brian melons have feelings too! how would you like to be amelon? life isn't all peaches for melons, you know!maybe you should show a bit of caring for your fellowcreatures! :^) your local peta advocate, thevegetable division ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from julielamb@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 14 11:10:25 2002 g3EGAN405034 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:10:23 -0500 Subject: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET I know you all deal with banboo, but...........some one must have an ideaon this one.My girlfriend and I were were having a few red wines (not browns) overlunch today. It came up in discussion that she has a problem withmoisture absortion.Got your attention.Here it is...............Someone has spilt RED WINE on her buffet and didn't clean it up properly.It appears a magazine was left sitting on the buffet with the spilt red wineunder it.Discovered some time later. She now has a A4 size, blue and purple stainingon what was once an expensive Oak Buffet.How does she get rid of this staining???. Julie from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 14 11:11:05 2002 g3EGB3405261 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:11:04 -0500 , Subject: Re: PETA, good ideas gone bad I know Clinton was almost universally hated in the US but looking from the outside he was pretty well regarded.I understand much of why he spent so much time out of the US was becausehe was more or less a lame duck being on his third term and having some excessive baggage I guess I could say as well as his attitude towards certain basic American values.The sexual encounters he had weren't seen in any real import in most of the rest of the world, I mean at least he wasn't in the English House of Commons, if he was he'd probably have been caught in the act buggering a male clerk while fondly thinking of the good old days of Public (what the rest of the world call private) education in the UK and it still wouldn't have raised that many eyebrows at all, I mean, it takes a certain type of person to be a politician in the first place right? [:-)] He was out here in Perth of all places about 3 months back but I couldn't get to see him. The $1,000 entry was more than I had in my money box but I believe it was a very interesting talk. Tony At 11:27 AM 4/14/02 -0400, Brian D. Creek wrote: Good point. ----- Original Message -----From: "Bob Maulucci" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:49 AMSubject: RE: PETA, good ideas gone bad Bill Clinton was recently at the University of Buffalo and despite my never having given him much credit before, he made great sense. His finalstatements were regarding the Taliban and why their type was bad newsforthe rest of the world. Clinton brought up the point that fundamentalists of any type believe that there is only one truth, and that one truth gives them the ability to act against others with impunity. Since they are right, they can treat others (infidels) in any manner they feel. He said that the thing that kept civilized folk from doing these attrocities was their humblebelief that maybe there is more than one truth or maybe "we could be wrong." A simple, but powerful message. I found it to be very profound.Anyway, I am sure that we would all agree that we do not want to seeanything or anyone suffer needlessly. PETA seems to be something thatstarted out as a good idea and was distorted by the samefundamentalism that others in the world use to distort religion, business, and everything inbetween. You can get by with a lot of success with using two things: common sense and consideration for "the other side."Best regards,Bob You wrote:PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 14 11:13:12 2002 g3EGDA405736 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:13:10 -0500 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET Julie,try framing it and ask Christies to flog it off for you. [:-)] Tony At 12:20 AM 4/15/02 +0800, Julie Lamb wrote: I know you all deal with banboo, but...........some one must have an ideaon this one.My girlfriend and I were were having a few red wines (not browns) overlunch today. It came up in discussion that she has a problem withmoisture absortion.Got your attention.Here it is...............Someone has spilt RED WINE on her buffet and didn't clean it up properly.It appears a magazine was left sitting on the buffet with the spilt red wineunder it.Discovered some time later. She now has a A4 size, blue and purplestainingon what was once an expensive Oak Buffet.How does she get rid of this staining???. Julie /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from julielamb@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 14 11:19:13 2002 g3EGJB406399 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:19:11 -0500 "Tony Young" Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET Tony, I knew you would either have a simple reply or a long complicatedone. Shall I have it delivered to you for framing in your spare time.:-) Julie Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET Julie,try framing it and ask Christies to flog it off for you. [:-)] Tony from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 14 11:37:27 2002 g3EGbQ407105 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:37:26 -0500 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET It all depends on who's paying me and how while I'm on line [:-)] Tony At 12:29 AM 4/15/02 +0800, Julie Lamb wrote: Tony, I knew you would either have a simple reply or a long complicatedone. Shall I have it delivered to you for framing in your spare time.:-) Julie Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET Julie,try framing it and ask Christies to flog it off for you. [:-)] Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 14 13:18:38 2002 g3EIIb408773 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:18:37 -0500 Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET Julie;I'm sorry, but if it any deeper than just a white hase in the finishitself, then your friend is stuck with it. She could possible have itstripped and the top bleached and re-stained to match, but it is noguarantee. john Julie Lamb wrote: I know you all deal with banboo, but...........some one must have an ideaon this one.My girlfriend and I were were having a few red wines (not browns) overlunch today. It came up in discussion that she has a problem withmoisture absortion.Got your attention.Here it is...............Someone has spilt RED WINE on her buffet and didn't clean it up properly.It appears a magazine was left sitting on the buffet with the spilt red wineunder it.Discovered some time later. She now has a A4 size, blue and purplestainingon what was once an expensive Oak Buffet.How does she get rid of this staining???. Julie from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sun Apr 14 13:47:07 2002 g3EIl6409392 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:47:06 -0500 14 Apr 2002 11:47:06 PDT Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue? rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu Adam, ever read the warnings/disclaimer on Elmer'sProbond? Bill Walters --- Adam Vigil wrote: Mike, NYATEX? Sounds like a feminine hygiene thing. LOL I am really happy with EPON. I just have not gottenof my duff and ordered more. Gorilla Glue is justdown the street and I figured I would give it a try.The glue up yesterday went smooth and not even verymessy. I wipe down the blank with thinner and keptthe foaming down to almost nothing. It is as hard asa rock now and stiff as a board. Oh yea and the glue will not shorten the quality ofyour life, unlike epoxy and urac. Adam----- Original Message ----- rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 10:19 AMSubject: Re: Polyurethane glue? Adam,You are more than welcome to come over to the shopand rent some Nyatex. You will find the rentalagreement per month more than agreeable and you onlyhave to pay the rent for as long as the glue holdsup!Luv you man!Mike In a message dated 4/12/2002 9:36:14 PM PacificDaylight Time, atlasc1@earthlink.net writes: I have use Epon a Urea Formaldehyde and now I amwondering about Polyurethane glue. I would like togive Gorilla Glue a try for those who have used itwhat advice do you have?....any caveats? Adam Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ > __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from JNL123141@msn.com Sun Apr 14 15:36:34 2002 g3EKaX411226 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:36:33 - Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:36:28 -0700 , "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Lathe FILETIME=[0D89E1F0:01C1E3F4] ----- Original Message ----- rodmakers@wugate.wus=tl.eduSubject: Re: Lathe I have that lathe, and am happy with it mostly. Sometimes wish the bed w=aslonger.... Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Lathe Grizzly Industrial also sells the 7 X 12. Gary W. Clark - NB7BNetwork AdministratorNortheastern Counseling CenterPOB 1908Vernal, UT 84078OFC: 435-789-6326FAX: 435-789- 6325gwclark.vernmhp@state.ut.us "If everything is going great, don't try to figure it out" Tony Spezio 04/12/2002 10:39:42 AM >>> Someone on the list mentioned that Harbor Freighthad a 7X12 mini lathe.Homer Truck Sales also had the 7X12. Homer is outof them and don't know when they will get more. Atone time I did find the 7X12 listed on HF butdon't see it now. Can I get the Item # from theperson that posted the info if you have it.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. Grizzlyalso h= ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian D. Creek Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:33 gwclark.VERNMHP@utah.gov; f= tha= waslonger....Brian----- Original Message -----From: "GaryC= <flytyr@southshore.com&g= 1:= sells= Adminis= gre= min= from DCURTIS@satx.rr.com Sun Apr 14 15:45:59 2002 g3EKjw411611 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:45:58 -0500 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:40:46 -0500 Subject: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Could those that use fluorescent light tubes for dipping explain how to takethe top off of the tube? I haven't tried yet, and thought I could learn from those past good/bad experiences from others. Thanks, Darrin Curtis from rcrensha@midsouth.rr.com Sun Apr 14 15:53:23 2002 g3EKrM411973 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:53:22 -0500 g3EKrKb18294; Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Darrin, We aren't using the glass tube. We are using the clear plasticflorescent light tube 'protectors' that you buy at the hardware store.There is a black plastic spacer that fits on the end, but no real top. Goto the plumbing section and find the PVC fittings that fit the clear tube.1-1/4" fitting I think. Good Luck. Rick from flyfish@gbronline.com Sun Apr 14 16:17:47 2002 g3ELHj412642 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:17:45 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Home depot has 1 1/4" x 4' tube protectors that have black inserts that just pull out. You have to get creative as to how to plug them--I used some CPVC pipe fittings through the black caps, filled the gap with some clear silicone, and sealed them by wrapping the exterior of the joint with black electrical tape. Worked great. Greg Darrin Curtis wrote: Could those that use fluorescent light tubes for dipping explain how to takethe top off of the tube? I haven't tried yet, and thought I could learn from those past good/bad experiences from others. Thanks, Darrin Curtis from flyrod@pop.digisys.net Sun Apr 14 16:24:06 2002 g3ELO5413032 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:24:05 - for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:24:03 - Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping 7F00,0000,0000> , filled the gap with some clear silicone, and sealed them by w... Uh, silicone is bad Umkay? Wouldn't want it touching my finish. Jim from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 14 16:30:39 2002 g3ELUc413406 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:30:38 -0500 14 Apr 2002 14:30:29 PDT Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping DarrinI use fluorescent light covers not bulbs, which havevery loose end covers. The covers slip right off withno problem. Then I glue a pvc cap with the spigot onthe bottom to drain it. I have 5 inch marks and drainat 1 min per mark. It is an easy inexpensive way toproduce great finishes. You have to clean the spigotso I put threads in the pvc, to remove the spigot. Thetube covers get cloudy after a year of my use, whichis a number of restored rods up to 40 or so. I simplyreplaced the tube at about $2-3 after the first yearof use. You have to clean the spigot with mineralspirits periodically . I clean the finish by pouringit through panty hose periodically, too. There is a great article on this in powerfibers 2.good luck --- Darrin Curtis wrote: Could those that use fluorescent light tubes fordipping explain how to takethe top off of the tube? I haven't tried yet, andthought I could learn from those past good/bad experiences from others. Thanks, Darrin Curtis __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from harms1@pa.net Sun Apr 14 16:31:26 2002 g3ELVP413546 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:31:25 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Cool!! Here in Pennsylvania there's a favorite fishing hole near Crossforkin Potter County. There, after a snake hunt, the local Fire Dept. hosts theannual "Hose Queen" pagent. You gotta love it! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In Howell, Michigan in late summer they have a melon festival and elect a,you guessed it, Melon Queen! How can they do that with a straight face? Brian----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:29 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Whoa! The "Pork Queen"??!! Now, there's an "endangered species!" Ididn't know women would compete for that in public. (Well, alright, alright! Would you rather hear more about Stanley Tool?) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:47 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen" at the Iowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hit with a cream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment of animals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely anon- vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can not speak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed ofyourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to torture harmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from kenealyj@gwi.net Sun Apr 14 16:39:18 2002 g3ELdH413999 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:39:17 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Where I grew up, in New York's Mid- Hudson Valley,they crowned the "ShadQueen" every year.(I think they still do...) John k----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Cool!! Here in Pennsylvania there's a favorite fishing hole near Crossfork in Potter County. There, after a snake hunt, the local Fire Dept. hosts the annual "Hose Queen" pagent. You gotta love it! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Brian D. Creek" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:33 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In Howell, Michigan in late summer they have a melon festival and elect a, you guessed it, Melon Queen! How can they do that with a straight face? Brian----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:29 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Whoa! The "Pork Queen"??!! Now, there's an "endangered species!" Ididn't know women would compete for that in public. (Well, alright, alright! Would you rather hear more about Stanley Tool?) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:47 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen"at the Iowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hit with a cream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment of animals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely anon- vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can not speak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed ofyourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to torture harmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 14 16:42:53 2002 g3ELgq414299 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:42:52 -0500 14 Apr 2002 14:42:48 PDT Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Thats right on Rick I used a 2 inch diameter cover and pvc cap. I stillonly do one section at a time. I use water bottle capsor similar, with center holes ,tapped on the bottomof the section, to prevent the rod from touching thetube when extracting the section. You have to havelong arms. It is limited to 4 foot sections with mycurrent tube. I glued the cap with epoxy and broke thecover to remove the pvc cap . Don't use acetone to clean your tube. It crystallizedthe tube. good luck--- Rick Crenshaw wrote: Darrin, We aren't using the glass tube. We are usingthe clear plasticflorescent light tube 'protectors' that you buy atthe hardware store.There is a black plastic spacer that fits on theend, but no real top. Goto the plumbing section and find the PVC fittingsthat fit the clear tube.1-1/4" fitting I think. Good Luck. Rick __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 14 16:49:45 2002 g3ELnj414681 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:49:45 -0500 helo=default) id 16wrsV-00000R-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:49:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Oh, no. Here we go again. M-D , filled the gap with someclear silicone, and sealed them by w... Wouldn't want it touching my finish.Jim again. M-D , = w...Uh, silicone is bad Umkay? Wouldn't want it = my finish.Jim from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 14 16:49:47 2002 g3ELnk414686 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:49:46 -0500 (authenticated) Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:49:44 -0700 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Rex, I haven't found any solvent which will clean the cleartubes without making them brittle. Has anyone? Not mineralspirits, nor denatured alcohol, nor acetone.... Harry Rex Tutor wrote: Don't use acetone to clean your tube. It crystallizedthe tube. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 14 16:53:31 2002 g3ELrU415217 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:53:30 - (authenticated) for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:53:28 -0700 Subject: Payne wrap colors Hi friends, I know that Payne most often used java beige wraps withgold trim. On all those I've seen the gold trim bands werebrilliantly colored, not translucent. My guess is that theywere somehow color preserved. But the java beige is considerably darker than thePearsall replacement threads I've seen, making me think thebeige wasn't CP'd. Here's my question... Did Payne wrapthe java beige and and apply finish, then come back laterand wrap the gold, then color preserve only the gold, thenfinish? Hope that makes sense,Harry--Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from lblove@omniglobal.net Sun Apr 14 16:58:38 2002 g3ELwa415624 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:58:36 -0500 0000 (12.162.144.141) Lazybee45@aol.com,RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In West Texas, one of the football teams we played in high school were theHereford Whitefaces, the home coming queen was the "Heifer Queen"...8^)Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/14/02 at 5:38 PM John Kenealy wrote: Where I grew up, in New York's Mid- Hudson Valley,they crowned the "ShadQueen" every year.(I think they still do...) John k from lblove@omniglobal.net Sun Apr 14 17:06:44 2002 g3EM6g416029 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:06:43 -0500 (12.162.144.141) "Rodmakers List" Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping g3EM6i416030 Rick is correct on the 1 1/4" pvc caps,I bought a set of them yesterday along withthe tube at the local "Home Improvement MegaloMart"that just open in town. They also have the 8' tubes ifyou want a tube longer then 4'. When you are at it youmight want to get an empty gallon paint can in the paintdepartment to drain the varnish in to. How much varnish will be needed to fill a 4' tube? Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/13/02 at 3:52 PM Rick Crenshaw wrote: Darrin, Go to the plumbing section and find the PVC fittings that fit the clear tube.1- 1/4" fitting I think. Good Luck. Rick from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Apr 14 17:14:29 2002 g3EMES416427 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:14:28 -0500 g3EMEQO23614 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:14:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Greg,I used a 1 1/2" round plug cut from a piece of 1/2" plywood. It threads easytoo.It is a tight enough fit, I did not even have to use a glue or sealer. After thefirst use the varnish sealed the plug. It never leaked a drop.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Greg Kuntz wrote: Home depot has 1 1/4" x 4' tube protectors that have black inserts thatjust pull out. You have to get creative as to how to plug them--I usedsome CPVC pipe fittings through the black caps, filled the gap with someclear silicone, and sealed them by wrapping the exterior of the jointwith black electrical tape. Worked great. Greg Darrin Curtis wrote: Could those that use fluorescent light tubes for dipping explain how totakethe top off of the tube? I haven't tried yet, and thought I could learn from those past good/bad experiences from others. Thanks, Darrin Curtis from cw@vanion.com Sun Apr 14 17:19:01 2002 g3EMJ0416763 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:19:00 - for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:23:58 - Subject: Floresent Tubes for dipping To keep the blank from touching the tube as I withdraw it [ or, if you =drain it], I use Scotch Magic tape [ a tip from the list], extended =about 3/8" past the ferrule end, smash it closed, use 1 5/16 straight =pin pushed thru the tape flap at 90* to each other. Keeps the ferrule =sealed, and won't let the section touch the tube. Quick & disposeable. To keep the blank from touchingthe = withdraw it [ or, if you drain it], I use Scotch Magic tape [ a tip from = list], extended about 3/8" past the ferrule end, smash it closed, = 5/16 straight pin pushed thru the tape flap at 90* to each other. Keeps = disposeable. from cw@vanion.com Sun Apr 14 17:22:33 2002 g3EMMW417062 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:22:32 - for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:27:38 - Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping The tubes aren't a full 48" long, 2 qt.s will fill 'em-----Original Message----- DCURTIS@satx.rr.com; Rodmakers List Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Rick is correct on the 1 1/4" pvc caps,I bought a set of them yesterday along withthe tube at the local "Home Improvement MegaloMart"that just open in town. They also have the 8' tubes ifyou want a tube longer then 4'. When you are at it youmight want to get an empty gallon paint can in the paintdepartment to drain the varnish in to. How much varnish will be needed to fill a 4' tube? Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/13/02 at 3:52 PM Rick Crenshaw wrote: Darrin, Go to the plumbing section and find the PVC fittings that fit the clear tube.1- 1/4" fitting I think. Good Luck. Rick from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Apr 14 17:31:24 2002 g3EMVN417463 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:31:23 -0500 g3EMVMO24071 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:31:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping It takes about 1 1/2 quarts. If you have room under the drain for a largercontainer that would be a good idea to use one. I don't have that luxury. Idrain back into the original quart can. When it is full, switch to the partialfilled can. Oh yes, do this after you shut off the valve. LOL. KEEP a carefuleye on the can, I have almost had a disaster. I guess sometime or other I willhave a overfill. This is one reason to do it by yourself, no distractions.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Brad Love wrote: Rick is correct on the 1 1/4" pvc caps,I bought a set of them yesterday along withthe tube at the local "Home Improvement MegaloMart"that just open in town. They also have the 8' tubes ifyou want a tube longer then 4'. When you are at it youmight want to get an empty gallon paint can in the paintdepartment to drain the varnish in to. How much varnish will be needed to fill a 4' tube? Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/13/02 at 3:52 PM Rick Crenshaw wrote: Darrin, Go to the plumbing section and find the PVC fittings that fit the clear tube.1- 1/4" fitting I think. Good Luck. Rick from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Apr 14 17:36:53 2002 g3EMar417860 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:36:53 -0500 g3EMapO24747 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:36:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping I used to clean with cheap paint thinners. Then I got to notbothering with it. A little thinner is poured in the tube withthe valve open to drain in a small disposable cup. This usuallyclears the valve. The valve is left open till I use it the nexttime. Have had over 35 rods through the tube, can still see therod and guides.I would guess I can use it for about another 20 or so rods.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Rex, I haven't found any solvent which will clean the cleartubes without making them brittle. Has anyone? Not mineralspirits, nor denatured alcohol, nor acetone.... Harry Rex Tutor wrote: Don't use acetone to clean your tube. It crystallizedthe tube. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from kenealyj@gwi.net Sun Apr 14 17:54:37 2002 g3EMsb418356 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:54:37 -0500 , , Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, So, that begs the question: How many of them were actually still "heifers?"----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In West Texas, one of the football teams we played in high school were theHereford Whitefaces, the home coming queen was the "Heifer Queen"...8^)Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/14/02 at 5:38 PM John Kenealy wrote: Where I grew up, in New York's Mid- Hudson Valley,they crowned the "ShadQueen" every year.(I think they still do...) John k from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sun Apr 14 17:55:33 2002 g3EMtW418476 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:55:32 - Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors The information that I got some years ago was that Payne color preservedeverything with white shellac The threads used were Belding Corticelli 'A'Silk in colors #5115 Brown, #3030 Primrose, #8238 Purple. from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sun Apr 14 18:01:44 2002 g3EN1h418950 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:01:43 -0500 , , Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Doesn't the International Plowing Match select a "Queen of the Furrow" from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 14 18:09:37 2002 g3EN9a419399 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:09:36 -0500 14 Apr 2002 16:09:35 PDT Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Me neither but I can still see thru mine pretty well.When it becomes unusable I bought 2 tubes on my lastvisit to Home Depot. I will replace as needed. I use 5minute epoxy on the cap so it's a only few minutes torebuild. I do rinse the tube with 1/8 cup or so ofmineral spirits and let the spirits set in the bottomuntil next use. If there is more than a week i usuallyhave to clean the exit more throughly. --- Harry Boyd wrote: Rex, I haven't found any solvent which will clean thecleartubes without making them brittle. Has anyone? Notmineralspirits, nor denatured alcohol, nor acetone.... Harry Rex Tutor wrote: Don't use acetone to clean your tube. It crystallized the tube. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Apr 14 18:25:58 2002 g3ENPv419924 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:25:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping I seem to remember cleaning some plastic tubes years ago with EfferdentTablets and warm water. Any thing else caused the tubes to shatter, meltorsomething equally bad. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Rex, I haven't found any solvent which will clean the cleartubes without making them brittle. Has anyone? Not mineralspirits, nor denatured alcohol, nor acetone.... Harry Rex Tutor wrote: Don't use acetone to clean your tube. It crystallizedthe tube. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from shane_person@telus.net Sun Apr 14 18:40:14 2002 g3ENeD420463 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:40:14 - (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:40:08 -0600 Subject: Re: bench planes Mastercraft is a brand name of the "Canadian Tire" chain of stores. MostMastercraft items are identical to the Craftsman brand from Sears. TheMastercraft planes that I have looked at are are the same as the Stanleyand Craftsman brands.Shane Brad Love wrote: Hey listmembers,have any of you heard of Mastercraft bench planes?if so how do they compare with the new #3 UK built Stanleyproduct? Are the blades interchangable? I've been trolling the used tool sellers and was thinking ofgetting a #3 Mastercraft to replace my #4 Stanley. tiaBradhttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net from edriddle@mindspring.com Sun Apr 14 18:58:18 2002 g3ENwH421250 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:58:17 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16wtss-0003b3-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:58:15 -0400 Subject: Re: bench planes Shane et. al. I purchased a Mastercraft #3 Jack Plane on eBay (he has more of them ifyouwant to take a look), advertised as new, at the beginning bid of $7.99. Ihave since purchased the 2" cut bench plane from Sears @ $31.99. There'snocomparison. I didn't complain to the eBay seller, I got what I paid for andI guess I would've had to eat shipping costs if returned. Now, this theonly Mastercraft #3 I've ever seen, so I could be wrong...just sharing myexperience. Ed----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: bench planes Mastercraft is a brand name of the "Canadian Tire" chain of stores. MostMastercraft items are identical to the Craftsman brand from Sears. TheMastercraft planes that I have looked at are are the same as the Stanleyand Craftsman brands.Shane Brad Love wrote: Hey listmembers,have any of you heard of Mastercraft bench planes?if so how do they compare with the new #3 UK built Stanleyproduct? Are the blades interchangable? I've been trolling the used tool sellers and was thinking ofgetting a #3 Mastercraft to replace my #4 Stanley. tiaBradhttp://lblove.users.omniglobal.net from Jkvseafood@aol.com Sun Apr 14 19:03:50 2002 g3F03o421575 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:03:50 - 14 Apr 2002 20:03:34 -0400 gwclark.VERNMHP@utah.gov,flytyr@southshore.com, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu ("RodmakersPost")Subject: Re: Lathe homier also has it for less. the excessories are extra. john from flyrod@hvc.rr.com Sun Apr 14 19:18:22 2002 g3F0IL422109 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:18:21 - g3F0IJc23781 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:18:19 - Subject: Thanks to all! I put my first completed bamboo rod in the drying closet this afternoon. =It is a Garrison 209E taper. I owe many of you a very special note of =thanks for making the journey successful and so enjoyable. A special =thanks to my friend and mentor John K. for answering an endless list of =questions and for giving me a copy of Moose in the Water/Bamboo on the =Bench which motivated me to give it a try. Can't thank you each =personally here for your helpful ideas, etc. , but maybe sometime at a =gathering I will have the pleasure of doing so. A great group and thank = I put my first completed bamboo rod in= closet this afternoon. It is a Garrison 209E taper. I owe many of you a = special note of thanks for making the journey successful and so = special thanks to my friend and mentor John K. for answering an endless = questions and for giving me a copy of Moose in the Water/Bamboo on the = from Lazybee45@aol.com Sun Apr 14 20:08:55 2002 g3F18t423202 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:08:55 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In a message dated 4/14/02 10:33:30 AM Central Daylight Time, bdcbfr@chartermi.net writes: I suppose in th esame way that a friend of mine(female) reacted whileworking in her father's hardware store when a weekend plumber rushed into thestore and franticly demanded of her (she was 16 at the time) "Where are your nipples!" mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 14 20:54:33 2002 g3F1sX424363 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:54:33 - (authenticated) Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:54:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Thanks to all! --------------9D2DA8C2D94D3E019C80E821 Ron, Congratulations, and just in time for serioustrout fishing. No rod will ever mean more to youthan this one. Enjoy it thoroughly. Harry Boyd ron wrote: I put my first completed bamboo rod in thedrying closet this afternoon. It is a Garrison209E taper. I owe many of you a very specialnote of thanks for making the journey successfuland so enjoyable. A special thanks to my friendand mentor John K. for answering an endless listof questions and for giving me a copy of Moosein the Water/Bamboo on the Bench which motivatedme to give it a try. Can't thank you eachpersonally here for your helpful ideas, etc. ,but maybe sometime at a gathering I will havethe pleasure of doing so. A great group andthank you all. Regards, Ron R -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --------------9D2DA8C2D94D3E019C80E821 Ron, it thoroughly. ron wrote: Iput my first completed bamboo rod in the drying closet this afternoon.It is a Garrison 209E taper. I owe many of you a very special note of thanks my friend and mentor John K. for answering an endless list of questionsand for giving me a copy of Moose in the Water/Bamboo on the Bench whichmotivated me to give it a try. Can't thank you each personally here foryour helpful ideas, etc. , but maybe sometime at a gathering I will havethe pleasure of doing so. A great group and thank you all. Regards, RonR -- -- Bamboo Rods -- --------------9D2DA8C2D94D3E019C80E821-- from ddeloach@pcisys.net Sun Apr 14 21:01:03 2002 g3F212424808 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:01:02 - for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:00:57 - env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Nobody has mentioned PETA's fishing sabatoge activity...I've heard they callthe press and show up to popular fishing destinations and chunk rocks allaround the fishermen. Don from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 14 21:17:32 2002 g3F2HV425433 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:17:31 -0500 helo=default) id 16ww3W-00007l-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:17:22 -0400 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, That's what is known as an assault. Someone who takes an assault verypersonally might not be sounderstanding, and might take necessary measures to stop the assault.This, in the South, is what isknown as a "good ol' country ass-whoopin' ". M-D Nobody has mentioned PETA's fishing sabatoge activity...I've heard they callthe press and show up to popular fishing destinations and chunk rocks allaround the fishermen. Don from homes-sold@attbi.com Sun Apr 14 21:24:28 2002 g3F2OS425791 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:24:28 -0500 Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:24:22 +0000 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET Julie,I don't know if this will work on oak but it does on cloth. Put someHydrogen Peroxide on a white wash cloth and blot it. The HP doesn't have anyeffect on cloth color. Nunley, are you listening ? This also works onremoving blood.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: OFF TOPIC: RED WINE & OAK BUFFET I know you all deal with banboo, but...........some one must have an ideaon this one.My girlfriend and I were were having a few red wines (not browns) overlunch today. It came up in discussion that she has a problem withmoisture absortion.Got your attention.Here it is...............Someone has spilt RED WINE on her buffet and didn't clean it up properly.It appears a magazine was left sitting on the buffet with the spilt red wineunder it.Discovered some time later. She now has a A4 size, blue and purple stainingon what was once an expensive Oak Buffet.How does she get rid of this staining???. Julie from bamboorodmaker@hotmail.com Sun Apr 14 21:24:45 2002 g3F2Oi425836 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:24:44 - Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:24:39 -0700 Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:24:38 GMT Subject: My New Toy/ FF related /non rodmaking FILETIME=[B196A500:01C1E424] Thought you guys would like to see a picture of my new toy. I put it on a interested in my bragging LOL :)) :))www.homestead.com/bambooshop/boat.html Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Sun Apr 14 21:40:35 2002 g3F2eY426742 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:40:34 -0500 helo=ocsonline.com) id 16wwNx-0008Q8-00; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:38:29 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Jojo, where the hell are you? Thought we only had ass whoopins here in GA Jojo DeLancier wrote: That's what is known as an assault. Someone who takes an assault verypersonally might not be sounderstanding, and might take necessary measures to stop the assault.This, in the South, is what isknown as a "good ol' country ass-whoopin' ". M-D From: "Don DeLoach" Nobody has mentioned PETA's fishing sabatoge activity...I've heard they callthe press and show up to popular fishing destinations and chunk rocks allaround the fishermen. Don from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 14 22:20:22 2002 g3F3KL427900 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:20:21 -0500 (authenticated) Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:20:13 -0700 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, CR, He's in Arkansas. I'm in Louisiana. Gotta coupla listers from MS and ALtoo. Betcha they've allheard about, if not experienced, that worst of all humiliations you describebelow. Harry crmitchell wrote: Jojo, where the hell are you? Thought we only had ass whoopins here in GA -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from bennetts@cybermesa.com Sun Apr 14 22:27:52 2002 g3F3Rp428343 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:27:51 - Subject: Re: Phillipson Red M-D, I think you are correct, it will take alot of experimentation. I've beencurious about the ammonia process so I'll work on that but the pantonemarkers are intriguing also. I don't think the varnish aging is the source of the red because the where Istripped the varnish off the redness remains. It is not a bad color for a rod so I'd kind of like to figure out how toduplicate it. Thanks for the help! Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red That color may well come from the varnish as it has aged. That would bemy first guess. You can try from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 14 22:36:12 2002 g3F3aB428797 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:36:11 -0500 helo=default) id 16wxHn-0005Yy-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:36:11 -0400 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, If more people experienced that type of humiliation there'd be less of thebehavior that startedthis latest tangent. M-D CR, He's in Arkansas. I'm in Louisiana. Gotta coupla listers from MS and ALtoo. Betcha they'veallheard about, if not experienced, that worst of all humiliations you describebelow. Harry crmitchell wrote: Jojo, where the hell are you? Thought we only had ass whoopins here in GA from caneman@clnk.com Sun Apr 14 22:46:27 2002 g3F3kQ429237 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:46:26 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: was PETA, now Other BS... Oklahoma has calls it just plain "whoop ass" and have it in quarts, gallonsand 5 gallon cans...I buy the 5 gallon cans only... no need messin' with the small stuff! Bob PS: Just took my first 2 DAYS in a row off since returning from NewZealand... Went to the Mountain Fork to camp out and flyfish for a couple ofdays... Fishing was bad, sun was hot when it was out, the calves of my legsare blistered (they kinda stick out like Popeye's forearms and the sun getsthem pretty bad!), wind blew like nobody's business, the camper had a leak,the damn fire wood was too wet to burn good, racoons tried to move in withus... Geez, I sure did have a good time, though! Was nice just to PLAY withbamboo for a couple of days, not work with it! R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, CR, He's in Arkansas. I'm in Louisiana. Gotta coupla listers from MS and AL too. Betcha they've all heard about, if not experienced, that worst of all humiliations you describe below. Harry crmitchell wrote: Jojo, where the hell are you? Thought we only had ass whoopins here in GA -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dongreife@hotmail.com Sun Apr 14 23:20:45 2002 g3F4Ki400150 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:20:44 - Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:20:39 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:20:38 GMT Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors FILETIME=[E61A2530:01C1E434] Harry, that would seem to be a neat trick,,but how Payne could do itescapes me. Don Greife Rodmakers List-serv the Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from dongreife@hotmail.com Sun Apr 14 23:23:04 2002 g3F4N4400400 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:23:04 - Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:22:55 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 04:22:55 GMT Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors FILETIME=[376FD4C0:01C1E435] Hey Harry,, How about doing the wraps in brown then CP 10" of gold and Rodmakers List-serv the Join the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 00:45:47 2002 g3F5jk402180 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:45:46 - ;Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:45:40 +0000 Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott,What about trying some of the Aniline Water Stains. They come in variety ofcolors and can be mixed to just about any color.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red M-D, I think you are correct, it will take alot of experimentation. I've beencurious about the ammonia process so I'll work on that but the pantonemarkers are intriguing also. I don't think the varnish aging is the source of the red because the where Istripped the varnish off the redness remains. It is not a bad color for a rod so I'd kind of like to figure out how toduplicate it. Thanks for the help! Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red That color may well come from the varnish as it has aged. That would bemy first guess. You can try from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 01:11:47 2002 g3F6Bk403349 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 01:11:46 - ;Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:11:40 +0000 "Jojo DeLancier" Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott,You may want to look at www.garrettwade.com then finishing products,selectStains & Dies, then 'Water-based "clearwater" Penetrating Gel Colors' See ifany of these colors or combination of will get what you want.Hope this helps, Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott,What about trying some of the Aniline Water Stains. They come in variety ofcolors and can be mixed to just about any color.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red M-D, I think you are correct, it will take alot of experimentation. I've beencurious about the ammonia process so I'll work on that but the pantonemarkers are intriguing also. I don't think the varnish aging is the source of the red because the where Istripped the varnish off the redness remains. It is not a bad color for a rod so I'd kind of like to figure out how toduplicate it. Thanks for the help! Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red That color may well come from the varnish as it has aged. That would bemy first guess. You can try from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 02:18:49 2002 g3F7Ik405117 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 02:18:47 -0500 , Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Escuse me?? The shag queen??? At 05:38 PM 4/14/02 -0400, John Kenealy wrote: Where I grew up, in New York's Mid- Hudson Valley,they crowned the "ShadQueen" every year.(I think they still do...) John k----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 5:26 PMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Cool!! Here in Pennsylvania there's a favorite fishing hole near Crossfork in Potter County. There, after a snake hunt, the local Fire Dept. hosts the annual "Hose Queen" pagent. You gotta love it! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Brian D. Creek" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:33 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In Howell, Michigan in late summer they have a melon festival and elect a, you guessed it, Melon Queen! How can they do that with a straightface? Brian----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:29 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Whoa! The "Pork Queen"??!! Now, there's an "endangered species!" Ididn't know women would compete for that in public. (Well, alright, alright! Would you rather hear more about Stanley Tool?) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:47 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen"at the Iowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hitwith a cream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment of animals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely anon- vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plantswhich opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings whocan not speak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamedofyourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to torture harmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from kenealyj@gwi.net Mon Apr 15 05:03:40 2002 g3FA3d406689 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:03:39 -0500 , "Tony Young" Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, I'm not touching that one!!!(please excuse the double entendre!)----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Escuse me?? The shag queen??? At 05:38 PM 4/14/02 -0400, John Kenealy wrote: Where I grew up, in New York's Mid- Hudson Valley,they crowned the "ShadQueen" every year.(I think they still do...) John k----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 5:26 PMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Cool!! Here in Pennsylvania there's a favorite fishing hole near Crossfork in Potter County. There, after a snake hunt, the local Fire Dept. hosts the annual "Hose Queen" pagent. You gotta love it! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Brian D. Creek" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:33 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, In Howell, Michigan in late summer they have a melon festival and elect a, you guessed it, Melon Queen! How can they do that with a straight face? Brian----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:29 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Whoa! The "Pork Queen"??!! Now, there's an "endangered species!" I didn't know women would compete for that in public. (Well, alright, alright! Would you rather hear more about Stanley Tool?) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:47 AMSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Not that it makes any difference really, but PETA lost any credibility, with me at least, when they attacked the 15 year old "Iowa Pork Queen" at the Iowa State Fair some years back. Yeah it was "harmless" she was hit with a cream pie. But If you are going to opose something, go to it. don't beat up on 15 year old girls whoare supporting their family business.I DO support the ORIGINAL ideas that started the "Ethical treatment of animals" which is to oppose mindless and useless cruelty. I have cats and a dog. All are treated as part of the family. but I am definitely a non-vegetarian. I don't think some of the testing on animals is a good but then I like fishing too, so what to do eh?Too bad someone can't come up with an alternate organization. One that accomplishes something and makes some sort of logical sense.In a fit of pique at PITA one time I proposed, somewhat tongue in cheek, a new organization, People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants which opposed the wanton killing and maiming of those of our fellow beings who can not speak or indeed move for themselves. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, cutting up defenseless grass to make cruel tools to torture harmless fish!Hey, stupidity is stupidity. a stupid person attacks that which he does not agree with. PETA as well as others show their ignorance by attacking Cheers dudes! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from kenealyj@gwi.net Mon Apr 15 05:08:47 2002 g3FA8j406958 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:08:45 - Subject: Re: Thanks to all! Hi Ron, Thanks for the kind words-It was/is a pleasure to help create another ="Cane-iac." I think we all have "mentors" on the list. I know that for me, M-D has =been a HUGE help, and my rods have taken a big step forward in quality =with his help.You are right, it is a wonderful list with many helpful and patient =people.(and then there's me) John k Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:19 PMSubject: Thanks to all! I put my first completed bamboo rod in the drying closet this =afternoon. It is a Garrison 209E taper. I owe many of you a very special =note of thanks for making the journey successful and so enjoyable. A =special thanks to my friend and mentor John K. for answering an endless =list of questions and for giving me a copy of Moose in the Water/Bamboo =on the Bench which motivated me to give it a try. Can't thank you each =personally here for your helpful ideas, etc. , but maybe sometime at a =gathering I will have the pleasure of doing so. A great group and thank = Hi Ron, Thanks for the kind words-It was/is a = help create another "Cane-iac." I think we all have "mentors" on the = know that for me, M-D has been a HUGE help, and myrods = taken a big step forward in quality with his help.You are right, it is a wonderful list = helpful and patient people.(and then there's me) John k ----- Original Message ----- ron= Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 = PMSubject: Thanks to all! I put my first completed bamboo rod = closet this afternoon. It is a Garrison 209E taper. I owe many of you = special note of thanks for making the journey successful and so = special thanks to my friend and mentor John K. for answering an = of questions and for giving me a copy of Moose in the Water/Bamboo on = personally here for your helpful ideas, etc. , but maybe sometime at a = from edriddle@mindspring.com Mon Apr 15 06:25:10 2002 g3FBP9407885 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:25:09 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16x4ba-0002MW-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:25:07 -0400 Subject: Re: My New Toy/ FF related /non rodmaking Tony:At first glance I thought; yahoo, a BBQ grill, still looks good though.Ed Subject: My New Toy/ FF related /non rodmaking Thought you guys would like to see a picture of my new toy. I put it =on a web page so I would not take up band width. Just click this link to =see. Check out the cool casting platform.:)) Delete if you are not =interested in my bragging LOL :)) :)) www.homestead.com/bambooshop/boat.html Have fun! -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. Tony:At first glance I thought; yahoo, a = grill, still looks good though.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Anthony Miller Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 = PMSubject: My New Toy/ FF related = rodmaking Thought you guys would like to see a picture of my new toy. I put = in my bragging LOL :)) :))www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/boat.html Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Apr 15 07:05:19 2002 g3FC5I408657 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:05:18 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:05:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Thanks to all! FILETIME=[CC571450:01C1E475] Congrats Ron! Your first cast with it will be just as memorable as this = ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Thanks to all! I put my first completed bamboo rod in the drying closet this afternoon. =It is a Garrison 209E taper. I owe many of you a very special note of tha=nks for making the journey successful and so enjoyable. A special thanks =to my friend and mentor John K. for answering an endless list of question=s and for giving me a copy of Moose in the Water/Bamboo on the Benchwhic=h motivated me to give it a try. Can't thank you each personally here for=your helpful ideas, etc. , but maybe sometime at a gathering I will have=the pleasure of doing so. A great group and thank you all. Regards, Ron = Message ----- From: ron S= I put my first completed bamboo rod in the drying closet t=his afternoon. It is a Garrison 209E taper. I owe many of you a very spec=ial note of thanks for making the journey successful and so enjoyable. A =special thanks to my friend and mentor John K. for answering an endless l=ist of questions and for giving me a copy of Moose in the Water/Bamboo on= personally here for your helpful ideas, etc. , but maybe sometime at a g= nk you all. Regards, Ron from JNL123141@msn.com Mon Apr 15 07:07:56 2002 g3FC7t408922 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:07:55 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 05:07:50 -0700 ,, "RodmakersPost" Subject: Re: Lathe FILETIME=[29B7CDB0:01C1E476] I know the Grizzly costs more but I wonder about availability of spare pa=rts: i.e. the motor or speed controller. Grizzly does stock parts for wh=atever they sell. ----- Original Message ----- gwclark.VERNMHP@utah.gov; fl=ytyr@southshore.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lathe homier also has it for less. the excessories are extra. john I know theGri=zzly costs more but I wonder about availability of spare parts: i.e. the = ----- Original Message ----- From:Jkvseafood@aol.=com Sent: Sunday, April14, = JNL123141@m=sn.com; bdcbfr@chartermi.net; gwclark.VERNMHP@utah.gov;flytyr@southshore= les= s. the excessories are extra.john from bennetts@cybermesa.com Mon Apr 15 07:59:45 2002 g3FCxi410200 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:59:44 - Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Don, Thanks for the ideas. I have my doubts about how well these stains willpenetrate bamboo but I'm going to find out. I'll let you know how it goes. Scott ----- Original Message ----- "JojoDeLancier" Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott,You may want to look at www.garrettwade.com then finishing products, select from beadman@mac.com Mon Apr 15 08:12:34 2002 g3FDCY411229 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:12:34 - for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:12:06 - Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping At 5:08 PM -0500 on 4/14/02, Brad Love wrote about Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Rick is correct on the 1 1/4" pvc caps,I bought a set of them yesterday along withthe tube at the local "Home Improvement MegaloMart"that just open in town. They also have the 8' tubes ifyou want a tube longer then 4'. When you are at it youmight want to get an empty gallon paint can in the paintdepartment to drain the varnish in to. How much varnish will be needed to fill a 4' tube? Some formulas for you to use: Volume of the tube: V (in ounces) = [(ID x ID/4) x PI x length]/1.804where ID is inside diameter in inches of tubePI is the constant 3.1415926Length is length of tube in inches V = [(1.5 x 1.5/4) x 3.14 x 48]/1.804 = 47.019 ounces which is just under one and one half quarts or three pints. If you don't have a calculator handy and have to do it on paper, use this one:V = ID x ID x Length x .435where ID is inside diameter in inches of tubeLength is length of tube in inches. Also, 1 gallon = 4 quarts = 128 ounces1 quart = 2 pints = 4 cups = 32 ounces 1 pint = 2 cups = 16 ounces1 cup = 1/2 pint = 8 ounces Just in case you're part of the majority of the world who use metricmeasures,V (in milliliters) = [(ID x ID/4) x 3.14 x length)where ID is inside diameter in centimetersLength is tube length in centimeters Short form is V = ID x ID x Length x .785 Same example as above ( 122 cm tube, 3.8 cm in diameter)V = 3.8 x 3.8 x 122 x .785 = 1383 ml = 1.38 liters Hope this helps,Claude from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Apr 15 08:31:20 2002 g3FDVK412199 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:31:20 - IAA12748 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:31:16 Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Concerning the water-based stains...I tried soaking a glued-uprod blank in a tube with the powder stain from Woodcraft, dissolvedin tap water. I soaked it for 2 days, and it seemed to do the jobbut after the butt section dried again, a glue seam opened and thesection was ruined. This was glued with resorcinol and should havebeen strong (and waterproof) but I think it was the expansion/contraction from the soaking that did it in.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, C. Scott Bennett wrote: Don, Thanks for the ideas. I have my doubts about how well these stains willpenetrate bamboo but I'm going to find out. I'll let you know how it goes. Scott ----- Original Message -----From: "Don Schneider" ; "JojoDeLancier" Cc: Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:17 AMSubject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott,You may want to look at www.garrettwade.com then finishing products, select from stoltz10@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 08:43:27 2002 g3FDhR413057 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:43:27 - Subject: silk fly line I was away in southern Oregon this past weekend and found a DT silk fly =line on an old automatic reel. It is really soft and in good shape, but =I not sure what wtt. it is. How do I figure out the wt. of this line? Thnaks, Tim I was away in southern Oregon this past= of this line? Thnaks,Tim from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Apr 15 08:46:03 2002 g3FDk2413416 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:46:02 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:45:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Phillipson Red FILETIME=[CA9CD8D0:01C1E483] Frank, What if you soaked the splines in the solution before final planing? I'm thinking after you remove the enamel, put the splines in thesolution and then final plane the section (at least the last couple of.0001's) Just a thought. Frank Stetzer wrote: Concerning the water-based stains...I tried soaking a glued-uprod blank in a tube with the powder stain from Woodcraft, dissolvedin tap water. I soaked it for 2 days, and it seemed to do the jobbut after the butt section dried again, a glue seam opened and thesection was ruined. This was glued with resorcinol and should havebeen strong (and waterproof) but I think it was the expansion/contraction from the soaking that did it in.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, C. Scott Bennett wrote: Don, Thanks for the ideas. I have my doubts about how well these stains willpenetrate bamboo but I'm going to find out. I'll let you know how it goes. Scott ----- Original Message -----From: "Don Schneider" ; "JojoDeLancier" Cc: Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:17 AMSubject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott,You may want to look at www.garrettwade.com then finishingproducts, select -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from aport@si.rr.com Mon Apr 15 09:00:09 2002 Received: from si.rr.com From: "Art Port" Cc: References: Subject: Re: Phillipson Red aport@si.rr.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This don't know how hard they are to get but I believe there are also = alcoholsoluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetrate = somethinglike cane a little better. Art ------ something like cane a little better. Art dryfly@erols.com Mon Apr 15 09:04:06 2002 Received: from g3FE45415419 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 193.s447.tnt1.bltm.md.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.203.193] helo=erols.com) 00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:04:05 -0400 10:04:28 -0700 From: Robert S Williams X-Mailer: Mozilla "'rodmakers'" Subject: Puzzled Content- dryfly@erols.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Lastnight I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod and after flexingthe tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained the bend/set. I flexed thetip in the opposite direction and again the set was retained but in theopposite direction. I guess I'm somewhat puzzled but this situation. I gluedthe rod using TBII for the splices and Epon for gluing the strips together. Ican't recall what ratio I mixed the Epon but it was what most peoplerecommended ( from a previous question posted to the list). The heattreating of the nodeless culm sections was done at 350 degrees for 15minutes and was done by Chris Bogart, so I have to believe that wasn't theproblem. Any suggestions? I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it isgoing to set so easy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. Thiswas my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to this I've alwaysdone noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. Thanks Bob >Fromaport@si.rr.com Mon Apr 15 09:06:47 2002 Received: from si.rr.com From: "Art Port" References:Subject: Re: silk fly line aport@si.rr.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This might help. Line = Weight Letter Designation No. 11 330 G3AG G3AF No. 12 380 G4AG G4AF from stoltz10@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 09:24:28 2002 g3FEOR417679 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:24:27 - Subject: Fw: Nifty trick!(off subject) ----- Original Message ----- ;"Ronald Wynn" ; "Robyn Williams" ;"Michael Wynn" ; "Marilyn Freedman";"Marcia Engblom" ; "Lisa Freedman"; "Holly Williams" ; "Ellen Freedman" Subject: Nifty trick! Check out this site. http://koti.mbnet.fi/~soldier/towboat.htm from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Apr 15 09:24:29 2002 g3FEOS417684 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:24:28 - g3FEONO02166 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:24:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Claude,The pie pan thing must be a good one. Have had several list members mentionit.I am using a shallow plastic bowl at this time but I think I need to see aboutgetting a pie pan.Thanks,Tony Claude Freaner wrote: At 5:31 PM -0500 on 4/14/02, Tony Spezio wrote about Re: FluorescentLight Tubes for Dipping It takes about 1 1/2 quarts. If you have room under the drain for a largercontainer that would be a good idea to use one. I don't have that luxury. Idrain back into the original quart can. When it is full, switch to the partialfilled can. Oh yes, do this after you shut off the valve. LOL. KEEP acarefuleye on the can, I have almost had a disaster. I guess sometime or other Iwillhave a overfill. This is one reason to do it by yourself, no distractions.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Go down to the nearest Marie Callanders (or equivalent restaurant)and buy a pie to take home. Eat the pie. Rinse out the pie pan anduse it underneath your varnish can. If you do have a spillover, itwill all be retained by the pie pan and not spread all over the floor. Claude from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 09:26:27 2002 g3FEQP418339 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:26:26 - Subject: Re: Puzzled Has the epon completely set yet? It can take a few days depending on the mix ratio and conditions. Tony At 10:04 AM 4/15/02 -0700, Robert S Williams wrote: Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from a previousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Apr 15 09:30:38 2002 g3FEUb419195 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:30:38 - g3FEUaO03633 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:30:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Fluorescent Light Tubes for Dipping Don't forget to leave space for the varnish that will be displaced by insertingthe rod in the tube. It is surprising how much the varnish will rise in the tube.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Claude Freaner wrote: How much varnish will be needed to fill a 4' tube? Some formulas for you to use: Volume of the tube: V (in ounces) = [(ID x ID/4) x PI x length]/1.804where ID is inside diameter in inches of tubePI is the constant 3.1415926Length is length of tube in inches V = [(1.5 x 1.5/4) x 3.14 x 48]/1.804 = 47.019 ounceswhich is just under one and one half quarts or three pints. If you don't have a calculator handy and have to do it on paper, use thisone:V = ID x ID x Length x .435where ID is inside diameter in inches of tubeLength is length of tube in inches. Also, 1 gallon = 4 quarts = 128 ounces1 quart = 2 pints = 4 cups = 32 ounces1 pint = 2 cups = 16 ounces1 cup = 1/2 pint = 8 ounces Just in case you're part of the majority of the world who use metricmeasures,V (in milliliters) = [(ID x ID/4) x 3.14 x length)where ID is inside diameter in centimetersLength is tube length in centimeters Short form is V = ID x ID x Length x .785 Same example as above ( 122 cm tube, 3.8 cm in diameter)V = 3.8 x 3.8 x 122 x .785 = 1383 ml = 1.38 liters Hope this helps,Claude from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 09:41:04 2002 g3FEf3420187 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:41:04 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:40:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Honing Jigs http://www.leevalley.com 15 micron Item# 54K93.025 micron Item# 54K94.02.5 micron Item# 54K95.02----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Honing Jigs Don, Do you know where I can get some? Scott ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Fw: Honing Jigs Scott, Developed for industrial use "SiC PSA micro-abrasives" are an abrasive onmylar with a sticky backing. 15 micron = 1000x, 5 micron = 2500x, .5 micron = 9000x. Good stuff.Don from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Apr 15 09:53:03 2002 g3FEr2421189 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:53:02 - g3FEr1O08411 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:53:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe John,You have a good point there. I hear that themotors and controllers have been a problem on the7X10's. I have the Enco 9X20 and have gotten partsand accessories for it from both Grizzly andHarbor Freight. Only difference was color andprice. Harbor Freight was a lot less in price butthe wait was a lot longer. For the most partGrizzly had the parts but I still had a 3 weekwait for some gears.The parts were for some modifications I made onthe lathe like the reverse tumbler and not forsomething that broke.The 7X10 parts are all interchangeable withGrizzly, Harbor Freight and another name I can'trecall right now. I would think it would be thesame with the 7X12. May not be, I don't know.Honier said they do have parts and accessories instock. For the most part a lot of the accessories from my 9X20 will work in the 7X10 or 7X12.In any cast, Homier is out of stock on the lathes.They said they have 1400 on order.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com John Long wrote: I know the Grizzly costs more but I wonder aboutavailability of spare parts: i.e. the motor orspeed controller. Grizzly does stock parts forwhatever they sell. john ----- Original Message -----From: Jkvseafood@aol.comSent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:05 PM bdcbfr@chartermi.net;gwclark.VERNMHP@utah.gov;flytyr@southshore.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lathehomier also has it for less. theexcessories are extra. john from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Mon Apr 15 09:53:16 2002 g3FErE421229 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:53:14 - ;Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:53:13 +0200 Subject: Sv: My New Toy/ FF related /non rodmaking Why not just buy a couple of ordinary garden chairs????? regards, Carsten P.S.: I just love those cammo colours. They are so life like........ Subject: My New Toy/ FF related /non rodmaking Thought you guys would like to see a picture of my new toy. I put it =on a web page so I would not take up band width. Just click this link to =see. Check out the cool casting platform.:)) Delete if you are not =interested in my bragging LOL :)) :)) www.homestead.com/bambooshop/boat.html Have fun! -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. chairs????? regards, Carsten P.S.: I just love those cammo colours. They are so = like........ ----- Original Message ----- Anthony Miller Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 = AMSubject: My New Toy/ FF related = rodmaking Thought you guys would like to see a picture of my new toy. I put = in my bragging LOL :)) :))www.homestead.com/=bambooshop/boat.html Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 10:03:42 2002 g3FF3g422274 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:03:42 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:03:37 +0000 Subject: Re: Puzzled Sounds to me that the Epon didn't cure.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from a previousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob from bhoy551@earthlink.net Mon Apr 15 10:19:33 2002 g3FFJW423434 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:19:32 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:19:25 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Lathe FILETIME=[EDD86550:01C1E490] www.littlemachineshop.com has all replacement parts for all the chinese lathes. Delivery is about a week or less cross-country from California. bill At 09:53 AM 4/15/2002 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote: John,You have a good point there. I hear that themotors and controllers have been a problem on the7X10's. I have the Enco 9X20 and have gotten partsand accessories for it from both Grizzly andHarbor Freight. Only difference was color andprice. Harbor Freight was a lot less in price butthe wait was a lot longer. For the most partGrizzly had the parts but I still had a 3 weekwait for some gears.The parts were for some modifications I made onthe lathe like the reverse tumbler and not forsomething that broke.The 7X10 parts are all interchangeable withGrizzly, Harbor Freight and another name I can'trecall right now. I would think it would be thesame with the 7X12. May not be, I don't know.Honier said they do have parts and accessories instock. For the most part a lot of the accessories from my 9X20 will work in the 7X10 or 7X12. In any cast, Homier is out of stock on the lathes.They said they have 1400 on order.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com John Long wrote: I know the Grizzly costs more but I wonder aboutavailability of spare parts: i.e. the motor orspeed controller. Grizzly does stock parts forwhatever they sell. john ----- Original Message -----From: Jkvseafood@aol.comSent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 8:05 PM bdcbfr@chartermi.net;gwclark.VERNMHP@utah.gov;flytyr@southshore.com;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Lathehomier also has it for less. theexcessories are extra. john from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Apr 15 10:20:55 2002 g3FFKt423721 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:20:55 - g3FFKrO14565 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:20:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Puzzled That is what I think too. I had Epon left in the mixing container forseveral days and it is not totally set up.Can the Epon be heat set when using TB 2. I heat set at 180 F. Don't knowenough about the Tight Bond and what it will do at that temp..I plan on making my first nodeless so this will be information for me also.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Don Schneider wrote: Sounds to me that the Epon didn't cure.----- Original Message -----From: "Robert S Williams" Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:04 AMSubject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from apreviousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Apr 15 10:21:30 2002 g3FFLT423832 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:21:29 - KAA29937 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 Subject: Taper for heavy flies? It seems like every year, esp on the heavily fished streamsaround here, the better fish spend less time feeding at "normal"depths. I need a fly rod for those days when the trout have tobe scraped off the bottom. Something that will work with a 6 or maybeeven 7wt sinking line and/or handle a Clouser or Copper Bomb or worse.If you don't need a rod like this, count your blessings. What kind of tapers work well for this? Am I better off witha fast taper or a parabolic or a straight taper like a Garrison?I guess I'm more concerned with lifting the fly & line than withdelicate or long casting.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from stoltz10@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 10:32:36 2002 g3FFWa425098 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:32:36 - Subject: Re: silk fly line I mic it and the tip is between .027-.030 and the belly is between =.045-.047 Mic it http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ I mic it and the tip is between = belly is between .045-.047 ----- Original Message ----- Grhghlndr@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 = AMSubject: Re: silk fly line = Mic =ithttp://bretsovens.bravepages.c=om/ from LambersonW@missouri.edu Mon Apr 15 10:42:34 2002 g3FFgY426014 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:42:34 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:42:33 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Taper for heavy flies? Thread-Topic: Taper for heavy flies?Thread-Index: AcHkkXNK8kpFIbjyR/Ga/kGzAsInGQAAn9bw FILETIME=[2927C710:01C1E494] g3FFgY426015 I fish heavily weighted leech patterns much of the time in Missouri. They areusually fished on a short line. In my opinion, a rod that is heavy in the tipwith a flexible butt works good because you don't really need the weight ofthe line to load the rod. I use a para-15 with the wet tip quite a bit, althoughthere may be better tapers. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Taper for heavy flies? It seems like every year, esp on the heavily fished streamsaround here, the better fish spend less time feeding at "normal"depths. I need a fly rod for those days when the trout have tobe scraped off the bottom. Something that will work with a 6 or maybeeven 7wt sinking line and/or handle a Clouser or Copper Bomb or worse.If you don't need a rod like this, count your blessings. What kind of tapers work well for this? Am I better off witha fast taper or a parabolic or a straight taper like a Garrison?I guess I'm more concerned with lifting the fly & line than withdelicate or long casting.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Apr 15 10:45:16 2002 g3FFjF426360 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:45:15 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:28:21 -0500 Subject: RE: Carbide Irons Thanks for the info Harry. If you had to pick just one angle, would it bethe 35 or the 40? I'll put you down for one. Incidentally, anyone knowwhere I can buy old junk irons cheap? I might just want to make a coupledozen extras, in case others want some, "after the fact". Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Carbide Irons Brain, I have six (one for each plane, plus two extras), all brazed ontoStanleyblades. All work fine. Of course, I didn't make them. Left that tosomeonewith some skills. There was a fellow named Joe on the list a few years ago who did threeforme. They are perfect. Unfortunately, Joe passed away, so I can't get anymore from him. Another friend from the list did the other three. Troy, put me down for one if you go with this idea... and I'd suggest35* -40* rather than 30. I think having a little more metal behind the cuttingedgeis an especially good idea with carbide. Harry from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 10:46:34 2002 g3FFkW426593 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:46:32 - Subject: Re: Taper for heavy flies? Maybe a Dickerson Guide or Guide Special? Tony At 10:21 AM 4/15/02 -0500, Frank Stetzer wrote: It seems like every year, esp on the heavily fished streamsaround here, the better fish spend less time feeding at "normal"depths. I need a fly rod for those days when the trout have tobe scraped off the bottom. Something that will work with a 6 or maybeeven 7wt sinking line and/or handle a Clouser or Copper Bomb or worse.If you don't need a rod like this, count your blessings. What kind of tapers work well for this? Am I better off witha fast taper or a parabolic or a straight taper like a Garrison?I guess I'm more concerned with lifting the fly & line than withdelicate or long casting.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 10:50:55 2002 g3FFor427204 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:50:53 - Subject: Re: Puzzled It can behave strangley sometimes. The same ratio will cure hard a rock one day and do as you mention the next.The people who developed it do recommend post heating though it's not a requirement. from the little I've seen of post heating by others this does seem to be a sure fire way to cure it as expected though as Bob has written it's been post heated and the rod still takes a set.Anybody remember what was thought the last time this came up?Did AJ mention this occasionally happening for no apparent reason and putting it down to a natural material not co operating? Tony At 10:21 AM 4/15/02 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote: That is what I think too. I had Epon left in the mixing container forseveral days and it is not totally set up.Can the Epon be heat set when using TB 2. I heat set at 180 F. Don't knowenough about the Tight Bond and what it will do at that temp..I plan on making my first nodeless so this will be information for me also.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Don Schneider wrote: /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 10:52:18 2002 g3FFqF427446 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:52:16 - Subject: Jacobs chucks Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on the bottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Apr 15 10:57:44 2002 g3FFvh428093 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:57:43 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 16:02:10 UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:56:39 -0700 Subject: RE: silk fly line The only way you can tell the weight of a silk line is to weigh the first 30feet. Different finishing processes, different braiding patterns, whether ornot the first level 6 feet has been cut back or not, etc. all make adifference. The AFTMA chart goes by weight. An unknown line has to beweighed. Nowadays it does you no good to know that your line is a HDH orwhatever. The diameter of a silk line does not consistently translate intothe modern line rating weights.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 8:32 AM Subject: Re: silk fly line I mic it and the tip is between .027-.030 and the belly is between.045-.047 ----- Original Message ----- stoltz10@attbi.com > Sent: Monday, April 15,2002 7:32 AMSubject: Re: silk fly line Mic it This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Mon Apr 15 11:01:07 2002 g3FG16428479 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:01:06 - g3FFtvH11593 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:55:57 -0700 2002 -0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:00:55 -0700 Subject: FFF Camping, FYI g3FG17428482 of the choices. The Paradise Valley KOA is 10.5 miles south of Livingstonand right on the Yellowstone River. I have heard from others who havestayed here in the past that it's a nice place to stay and they will return. The address is:163 Pine Creek Rd.Livingston, Mt (406) 222-0992 Also see:http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypResults.py?&&city=Livingston&state=MT&country=us&slt=45.662731&sln=- 110.560555&cs=4&stp=y&stx=8014776 I just made my reservations with them this morning. They have "several "sites open with water and electric only, for $25./night. They have 8-10 fullhook-up sites open for $28./night. They also have "some" 1&2 room cabinsavailable. These cabins do not have facilities. Apparently you just camp outin them and use the camps facilities. Sorry, I neglected to ask about tentcamping.It takes a credit card to hold your reservation. There cancellation policy isto call them prior to 4 PM the day before you are due to arrive.It's been recommended that reservations be made soon. The gal I spoke withwas expecting the FFF to fill them up. See you there,JimH from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Apr 15 11:02:50 2002 g3FG2n428812 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:02:49 - ;Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:02:44 +0000 Subject: Re: Taper for heavy flies? How about a Garrison 215? ----- Original Message ----- I need a fly rod for those days when the trout have tobe scraped off the bottom. Something that will work with a 6 or maybeeven 7wt sinking line and/or handle a Clouser or Copper Bomb or worse. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Apr 15 11:05:24 2002 g3FG5N429196 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:05:23 - (authenticated) Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:05:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Carbide Irons Troy, I'd suggest 35* as a starting point. After all, with either a diamondstone and a jig, or a special grinding wheel, anyone can re-grind to theirdesired angle. Sources for junk irons? Don't know. I've emailed Patrick Leach. Harry "Miller, Troy" wrote: Thanks for the info Harry. If you had to pick just one angle, would it bethe 35 or the 40? I'll put you down for one. Incidentally, anyone knowwhere I can buy old junk irons cheap? I might just want to make a coupledozen extras, in case others want some, "after the fact". Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 9:52 PM Cc: Troy.Miller@bakeroiltools.com; RodmakersSubject: Re: Carbide Irons Brain, I have six (one for each plane, plus two extras), all brazed ontoStanleyblades. All work fine. Of course, I didn't make them. Left that tosomeonewith some skills. There was a fellow named Joe on the list a few years ago who did threeforme. They are perfect. Unfortunately, Joe passed away, so I can't get anymore from him. Another friend from the list did the other three. Troy, put me down for one if you go with this idea... and I'd suggest35* -40* rather than 30. I think having a little more metal behind the cuttingedgeis an especially good idea with carbide. Harry --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from bhoy551@earthlink.net Mon Apr 15 11:06:58 2002 g3FG6v429548 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:06:57 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:06:50 -0400 Subject: anodizing aluminum FILETIME=[8D88C530:01C1E497] Hi, all, Before I take the plunge and buy NS for reel seats, I've been practicing using 3?/3" aluminu rod. I have seen some rods recently which use anodized aluminum reelseats and they are handsomely done, tho not in the typical style. Has anybody tried anodizing aluminum in their basement? from the searches I've made, it's as easy or as hard as you want to make it... perfect for the rodmaker. You can color anodized surfaces using anything from RIT to India Ink to expensive pigments. Just wondering if it gives consistent results, is reasonably do-able and worth the effort? Bill from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 15 11:09:28 2002 g3FG9R400108 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:09:27 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: silk fly line The only way you can tell the weight of a silk line is to weigh the first 30 feet. Darryl,Is that first 30' measured with the front taper or without it? I'veheard both and it will make quite a bit of difference when you're talkingabout such fine increments of weight. Bob from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Mon Apr 15 11:16:57 2002 g3FGGu401022 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:16:56 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:16:51 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Thread-Topic: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,,Thread-Index: AcHjZAxsXnsjWVJGQ+a7qWFA7Sf/cwBL7bBw FILETIME=[F3884300:01C1E498] Personally I'm glad we don't have much of this sort of keyboard diarrhea =here. I enjoy most messages on this list, but not this sort of =sub-political rant. No, I don't sympathize with PETA, but I'm not =interested in the views of people who still care about Jane Fonda's =politics or think (using the term loosely) that it is clever or sensible =to compare Nazis, who killed people just like us along with their =children in rather large numbers (contact me if you hadn't heard about =this) and the radical part of the environmental movement. Sloganeering =of the opposite political extreme is equally out of place here in my =opinion. When politics does come up (and I agree PETA is a legitimate =topic for any list related to fishing and the torture of bamboo) I thank =everyone who manages to express themselves without slipping into this =mode. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, Hell yes, I'll sign it. I'm still boiling because I found out late last =night the Hanoi Jane was here in little ole' Dalton GA yesterday, =dedicating a battered women's shelter. She's in the same crowd of =eco-Nazis. If her visit had been publicized beforehand there would have =been hell to pay 'cause there are a lot of guys around who did not = Just get me a copy of the petition .......... Don Greife wrote: GOOD SHOW,,,J.J. Don Greife 0DocumentEmail &l=t;….Hanoi Jane was here in little =ole' in the Pe=rsonallyI’m glad we don’t have much of this sort of keyboard =diarrhea here. I enjoymost messages on this list, but not this sort of sub-political rant. No, =Idon’t sympathize with PETA, but I’m not interested in the =views of people whostill care about Jane Fonda’s politics or think (using the term =loosely) thatit is clever or sensible to compare Nazis, who killed people just like =us alongwith their children in rather large numbers (contact me if you =hadn’t heard aboutthis) and the radical part of the environmental movement. Sloganeering =of theopposite political extreme is equally out of place here in my opinion. =Whenpolitics does come up (and I agree PETA is a legitimate topic for any =listrelated to fishing and the torture of bamboo) I thank everyone who =manages toexpress themselves without slipping into this =mode. Ba=rry -----OriginalMessage-----From: crmitchell Sent: Sunday, April 14, =2002 1:25AM dongreife@hotmail.comCc:JJ_BPK@BellSouth.Net;rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: PETA, =Petition torevoke tax exempt status,, Hell yes, night theHanoi Jane was here in little ole' Dalton GA yesterday, dedicating a =battered her visithad been publicized beforehand there would have been hell to pay 'cause =there Just get me a copy of the petition .......... Don Greife wrote: Petition to from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Mon Apr 15 11:24:18 2002 g3FGOF402237 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:24:15 - id ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:18:40 -0700 Don Schneider Subject: RE: analine dyes this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. A little warning for all: ananline dyes cause bladder cancer. I don't knowhow much exposure you need, but I would think you'd want to wear nitrilegloves at the least when dealing with this stuff. Chris -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott,I don't know how hard they are to get but I believe there are alsoalcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetratesomething like cane a little better.Art CleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} A little warning for all:=A0 ananline dyes cause bladder =cancer.=A0 I don't know how much exposure =youneed, but I would think you'd want to wear nitrile gloves at the leastwhen dealing with this stuff. Chris -----Original =Message-----From: Art Port Sent: =Monday, April 15, =2002 6:57 AM bennetts@cybermesa.com; DonSchneiderCc: =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Phillipson =Red Scott, they are toget but I believe there are also alcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out =theretoo. They might penetrate something like cane a little =better. Art from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Apr 15 11:24:18 2002 g3FGOH402242 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:24:17 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 16:28:44 UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:23:13 -0700 Subject: RE: silk fly line AFTMA charts say the weight of the first 30 feet.....I don't see anything in the specs that say without the front taper.But, if you think about it, it's the weight of line that a fly rod canhandle. Why would you subtract any part of the first 30 feet when the rodhas to handle the weight of all of it?Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 9:04 AM Subject: Re: silk fly line The only way you can tell the weight of a silk line is to weigh the first30 feet. Darryl,Is that first 30' measured with the front taper or without it? I'veheard both and it will make quite a bit of difference when you're talkingabout such fine increments of weight. Bob This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 15 11:29:38 2002 g3FGTc403075 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:29:38 - 15 Apr 2002 09:29:37 PDT Subject: RE: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, BarryI could not agree more strongly. Bamboo rod productionas a process is not politcal and this message board,up to this time, has had more dignity than to tossslogans about so easily. --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: yesterday, dedicating a battered women's shelter. She's in the same crowd of eco-Nazis....>Personally I'm glad we don't have much of this sort of keyboard diarrhea here. I enjoy most messages onthis list, but not this sort of sub-political rant.No, I don't sympathize with PETA, but I'm notinterested in the views of people who still careabout Jane Fonda's politics or think (using the termloosely) that it is clever or sensible to compareNazis, who killed people just like us along withtheir children in rather large numbers (contact meif you hadn't heard about this) and the radical partof the environmental movement. Sloganeering of theopposite political extreme is equally out of placehere in my opinion. When politics does come up (andI agree PETA is a legitimate topic for any listrelated to fishing and the torture of bamboo) Ithank everyone who manages to express themselveswithout slipping into this mode.Barry-----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 1:25 AM Cc: JJ_BPK@BellSouth.Net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exemptstatus,,Hell yes, I'll sign it. I'm still boiling because Ifound out late last night the Hanoi Jane was here inlittle ole' Dalton GA yesterday, dedicating abattered women's shelter. She's in the same crowdof eco-Nazis. If her visit had been publicizedbeforehand there would have been hell to pay 'causethere are a lot of guys around who did not accepther apology. Just get me a copy of the petition .......... Don Greife wrote: GOOD SHOW,,,J.J. Don Greife Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, > > > __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Mon Apr 15 12:21:05 2002 g3FHL4406893 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:21:04 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: silk fly line Darryl, The standard is the first 30' --- not inluding any level tip section. So you must find the beginning of the taper then measure 30' and weigh only that portion, supporting the level tip and the balance of the line. Why not measure the level tip (which might be 2'-12' depending on the manufacturer), I don't know, perhaps Leon Chandler remembers, he was in the standards committe in 1961. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Hayashida Darryl wrote: AFTMA charts say the weight of the first 30 feet.....I don't see anything in the specs that say without the front taper.But, if you think about it, it's the weight of line that a fly rod canhandle. Why would you subtract any part of the first 30 feet when the rodhas to handle the weight of all of it?Darryl from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Apr 15 13:09:12 2002 g3FI9B409984 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:09:11 - for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:09:10 - Subject: Rod restoration question List: I do have a rod restoration question below, but having worked as statelegislative staff for nearly a decade, I can't resist offering a fewcomments on the politics of the PETA discussion: 1. Animal rights and environmentalism are not even close to the same thing,even though some find it politically convenient to lump them (usuallypreceded with several derogatory adjectives); 2. PETA proponents love this type of discussion because it gives them freepress; 3. Anti-environment folks love this type of discussion because it divertspeople's attention from the real threats to our fishing: access and habitatdegradation. The bottom line is that PETA is a silly, ineffectual group. Wise anglersshould be quietly aware, but generally let sleeping dogs lie and not diverttheir attention from the real threats mentioned above. I should also addthat Missouri and many other states have laws (I actually wrote Missouri's)that make it a crime to interfere with lawful fishing, hunting, or trapping. Now, here is the rod restoration question:I have acquired a Heddon-built Webercraft 9' 3-pc. with dry, frayingoriginal wraps that need replacing. This rod was a budget model, so thereare relatively few quides (eight plus tip top; only three on the mid) andthe spacing is rather odd around the ferrules. The question is whether tobe true to history and replace the guides where they are, or to lose somehistory by adding a few guides and spacing them accordingly. Aside from thefraying wraps and some marks in the varnish, the rod is in good shape andwill be used for fishing. Obviously, changing the guide spacing willrequire more refinishing work, but I'm more interested in hearing the list'sopinions on the philosophy of changing the guide spacing. Thanks in advance, Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 15 13:11:04 2002 g3FIB4410254 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:11:04 - 15 Apr 2002 11:11:03 PDT Subject: Paradise Valley KOA - MT FFF Symposium accomidations I called the Paradise valley KOA . Like JIM H she toldme thay are expectin the FFF to fill them up. I don't have an RV so here's some info for tents andcabins. They have 1 room cabins with electricity and beds ( nobedding or towels) for $40 per night for the first 2people. The could sleep 3 people. The rest rooms aresome distance away and not in the cabin. They have 2 room cabins also for $50. It is $2 more per person after 2 people.And they have a cottage on the river unlike the cabinshas stove and refrig. It is $125 and could sleep 3familie / couples. Tent spaces are $19.call him at 406-222- 0922. See you there. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Mon Apr 15 13:13:55 2002 g3FIDs410641 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:13:54 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 18:18:21 UT (Tumbleweed ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:12:50 -0700 "Hayashida Darryl" Subject: RE: silk fly line Perhaps the level tip was meant to be trimmed away? All of my silk lines Igot used, and none of them have level tips.Darryl -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:22 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: silk fly line Darryl,The standard is the first 30' --- not inluding any level tipsection. So you must find the beginning of the taper then measure 30' and weigh only that portion, supporting the level tip and the balance of the line. Why not measure the level tip (which might be 2'-12' depending on the manufacturer), I don't know, perhaps Leon Chandler remembers, he was in the standards committe in 1961. Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Hayashida Darryl wrote: AFTMA charts say the weight of the first 30 feet.....I don't see anything in the specs that say without the front taper.But, if you think about it, it's the weight of line that a fly rod canhandle. Why would you subtract any part of the first 30 feet when the rod has to handle the weight of all of it?Darryl This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Apr 15 13:18:27 2002 g3FIIP411271 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:18:25 - Subject: Powerfibres -April 2002 Please,please have a look at the very latest Powerfibres magazine!The content is all rivetting stuff amd the Pezon et Michel websitetherein is awash with information on this old and respected company.Many thank to Bob M and all concerned...simply WELL DONE ALL.......Paul from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Apr 15 13:49:50 2002 g3FInj413403 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:49:45 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:49:38 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:33:04 -0500 Subject: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article Anybody read Bob's article on FAOL yet? Interesting! Y'all know that Bobis one of my heroes, and this position statement just adds to that.Hopefully, I will have the privilege of making a rod on Bob's newest"contraption"!TAM from flytyr@southshore.com Mon Apr 15 13:54:04 2002 g3FIs4413960 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:54:04 - g3FIruO29009; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:53:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks Tony,I bought a few chucks to see about making a rod "stretcher", never gotaroundto it yet. Jo Jo and I did a lot of discussion on it. As far as hangingweights, I have had good and not so good results. I think when I had goodresults it was because I had the blank good and straight. When I had so soresults is because I did not get the blank as straight as I thought. I did notuse a chuck to hang the weight. Just made a loop with the binding cord thatcame off one side and up the other side so that equal weight would be on thetip. Put a cup hook in a plumbers lead stick and hang it in the loop. Give it atry, you have nothing to loose.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Young wrote: Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Apr 15 14:05:22 2002 g3FJ5M414823 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:05:22 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:48:31 -0500 Subject: RE: cork seal g3FJ5M414824 I have used it. I don't like it, and I will never use it again. It makesthe surface of the grip smooth and hard, as though the grip were made ofpine, turned on a lathe. You do not have as secure a grip on the cork aswhen the cork is left natural. And of all the rods I have made (gl*ss andgr*phite), it is the only rod that the grip has actually cracked on. Notthe glueline between rings, but one ring broke parallel to the glue lines,all the way around. Bizarre. If I knew where the bottle was, I would giveit to you. Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: cork seal Has anyone on the site used Cork Seal on their cork grips, if so do yourecommend it? Any problems with it? Thanks,Mark from bhoy551@earthlink.net Mon Apr 15 14:30:39 2002 g3FJUc416427 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:30:38 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:30:32 -0400 Subject: machining tiny grooves FILETIME=[020F5510:01C1E4B4] Hi all, How do the machinists out there make those teeny-tiny grooves you see on ferrules and some other hardware? There's no way I can grind a tool bit that small, at least on my wheel. Is there a special tool for this? thanks, Bill from goodaple@cox-internet.com Mon Apr 15 14:32:20 2002 g3FJWJ416717 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:32:20 -0500 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Re: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article I agree Tony. Nice, Well written article Bob. You're right, I'm alreadywanting that beveller.Randall G.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article Anybody read Bob's article on FAOL yet? Interesting! Y'all know that Bobis one of my heroes, and this position statement just adds to that.Hopefully, I will have the privilege of making a rod on Bob's newest"contraption"!TAM from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Mon Apr 15 14:40:35 2002 g3FJeZ417716 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:40:35 -0500 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:23:50 -0500 Subject: RE: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article Tony??? This is the "other" T -- Troy. : ) Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article I agree Tony. Nice, Well written article Bob. You're right, I'm alreadywanting that beveller.Randall G.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article Anybody read Bob's article on FAOL yet? Interesting! Y'all know that Bobis one of my heroes, and this position statement just adds to that.Hopefully, I will have the privilege of making a rod on Bob's newest"contraption"!TAM from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 15 14:41:54 2002 g3FJfr418113 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:41:53 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: machining tiny grooves Bill,Machine shop supply houses sell grooving tools. I think Travers Toolcarries them. I bought a set years ago, but can't remember who from. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: machining tiny grooves Hi all, How do the machinists out there make those teeny-tiny grooves you see onferrules and some other hardware? There's no way I can grind a tool bit that small, at least on my wheel. Is there a special tool for this? thanks, Bill from gjm80301@yahoo.com Mon Apr 15 14:44:50 2002 g3FJio418870 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:44:50 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:44:49 PDT Subject: Off-Topic - Source for curved landing nets There was some discussion about this here a while back and I can'tfind it. Does somebody have the website for the naker of curved(scoop- shaped)landing nets? Thanks, Jerry __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from lblove@omniglobal.net Mon Apr 15 14:46:48 2002 g3FJkl419467 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:46:47 - 0000 (12.162.145.98) Subject: Re: machining tiny grooves g3FJkl419468 Bill use a 60 degree threading tool and only go about .003 deep to the side.Unless the person looking at them has an optical comparator, the "v" disappears in to a U and everything looks good. It turns in to an illusion,you see the .003" depth and .00346" width. Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/15/02 at 3:30 PM Bill Hoy wrote: Hi all, How do the machinists out there make those teeny-tiny grooves you see on ferrules and some other hardware? There's no way I can grind a tool bit that small, at least on my wheel. Is there a special tool for this? thanks, Bill from jerryy@webtv.net Mon Apr 15 14:55:04 2002 g3FJt3421306 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:55:03 - by mailsorter-105-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2115.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id MAA05237; ETAuAhUAiyrfwK4eXoUzN6eC03d8xGI4WLQCFQDKFt2DeO35KAw2BUqVTFlbdIR6Fw== Subject: Re: machining tiny grooves 2002 15:30:30 -0400 Bill - I use a 60 degree singletooth threading bit. Have a 2" dialcaliper to measure the travel of the transfer table so they can bemeasured accurately. Regards, Jerry Young from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Apr 15 15:05:03 2002 g3FK52423424 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:05:02 - Subject: Re: Power Fibers April 2002 is now out In a message dated 4/14/02 9:45:53 PM Central Daylight Time, bmaulucci@adelphia.net writes: Bob, I can't seem to find the April issue. I only see the January 2002 issue when I go to your web site. What am I doing wrong? Mark Cole Thanks for subscribing and reading Power Fibers. The new issue is available I look forward to your feedback, and I appreciate you patronizing oursponsors.Tight lines to you all,Bob Maulucci In a message dated4/14/02 9:45:53 PM Central Daylight Time, bmaulucci@adelphia.net writes: Bob, Mark Cole Thanks forsubscribing and reading Power Fibers. The new issue is available I look forward to your feedback, and I appreciate you patronizing oursponsors.Tight lines to you all,Bob Maulucci from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 15 15:19:52 2002 g3FKJp425940 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:19:51 - 15 Apr 2002 13:19:51 PDT Subject: Re: Rod restoration question I did a Weber / Heddon last year. I thought the guideswere sparse but I stuck with history. It cast realnice, loaded lots of line. I would remove the guides in question. Tape them backon in the new arangement. I use a 1/8 masking tape Iget from automotive paint shops. It comes of with noproblem but holds well enough to lawn cast. I wouldtest my theory out before I resigned myself to thehistorical spacing . If you are goig to do some wraps you might as welltake em off and do them all. I have changed guide spacing and sizes to upgrade asilk line rod to modern lines with success. Good luck and let me know what you do --- Terry Finger wrote: List: I do have a rod restoration question below, buthaving worked as statelegislative staff for nearly a decade, I can'tresist offering a fewcomments on the politics of the PETA discussion: 1. Animal rights and environmentalism are not evenclose to the same thing,even though some find it politically convenient tolump them (usuallypreceded with several derogatory adjectives); 2. PETA proponents love this type of discussionbecause it gives them freepress; 3. Anti-environment folks love this type ofdiscussion because it divertspeople's attention from the real threats to ourfishing: access and habitatdegradation. The bottom line is that PETA is a silly, ineffectualgroup. Wise anglersshould be quietly aware, but generally let sleepingdogs lie and not diverttheir attention from the real threats mentionedabove. I should also addthat Missouri and many other states have laws (Iactually wrote Missouri's)that make it a crime to interfere with lawfulfishing, hunting, or trapping. Now, here is the rod restoration question:I have acquired a Heddon-built Webercraft 9' 3-pc.with dry, frayingoriginal wraps that need replacing. This rod was abudget model, so thereare relatively few quides (eight plus tip top; onlythree on the mid) andthe spacing is rather odd around the ferrules. Thequestion is whether tobe true to history and replace the guides where theyare, or to lose somehistory by adding a few guides and spacing themaccordingly. Aside from thefraying wraps and some marks in the varnish, the rodis in good shape andwill be used for fishing. Obviously, changing theguide spacing willrequire more refinishing work, but I'm moreinterested in hearing the list'sopinions on the philosophy of changing the guidespacing. Thanks in advance, Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 15 15:20:34 2002 g3FKKX426161 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:20:33 - 15 Apr 2002 13:20:32 PDT Subject: Re: Power Fibers April 2002 is now out I got it with no problem --- MasjC1@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/14/02 9:45:53 PM CentralDaylight Time, bmaulucci@adelphia.net writes: Bob, I can't seem to find the April issue. I only seethe January 2002 issue when I go to your web site. What am I doing wrong? Mark Cole Thanks for subscribing and reading Power Fibers. The new issue is available I look forward to your feedback, and I appreciate you patronizing our sponsors.Tight lines to you all,Bob Maulucci __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Mon Apr 15 16:25:02 2002 g3FLP1401309 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:25:01 - 15 Apr 2002 17:24:55 -0400 Subject: RE: Taper for heavy flies? FRank:You may have this already, but it is a great nymphing rod. Feels light inhand despite its length. Handles a 6 with sink tips well. Action is slow andeasy. Casts a long line when needed. A light stellie rod, but would be great Hardy JJH Triumph Palakona rod8'9" for #6 line 0 090 2455 105 26510 125 27615 144 28520 160 29625 171 31030 178 32035 195 33340 209 34345 219 35050 225 35055 230 350 Butt guides 5.5, 22Tip guides 3.875, 9.5, 16, 23.5, 33.25, 44 Butt is 53.75" and tip is 52.75" Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Taper for heavy flies? It seems like every year, esp on the heavily fished streamsaround here, the better fish spend less time feeding at "normal"depths. I need a fly rod for those days when the trout have tobe scraped off the bottom. Something that will work with a 6 or maybeeven 7wt sinking line and/or handle a Clouser or Copper Bomb or worse.If you don't need a rod like this, count your blessings. What kind of tapers work well for this? Am I better off witha fast taper or a parabolic or a straight taper like a Garrison?I guess I'm more concerned with lifting the fly & line than withdelicate or long casting.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from dongreife@hotmail.com Mon Apr 15 16:32:22 2002 g3FLWM401900 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:32:22 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:32:16 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:32:16 GMT Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors FILETIME=[03DADD90:01C1E4C5] David, I have always been a little partial to the old varnish that Diggerliked,,ie.Pratt & Lambert #61 Spar. My problem being that it is "very"difficult to find and expensive ($18/qt). The first quart I found was a 125mile drive oneway. Just recently called P&L on the phone and theylocated some for me only 80 miles from home. They are very patient on thephone and 'will' locate some for you, but it may be a little drive to get to it.IMHO P&L #61 is the best spar ever formulated and is superior to all the one that finally result in some advances in the craft of bamboo-rod building!Just color preserve the wrapping thread on the spool, let it dry, and thenwrap it on!!! If you like these kinds of mental gymnastics, keep in touch. Whatdo you know about Payne's finishes? i have some information but I'm looking varnishes from the U.S. 10:22 PM 10" of gold and wrap it on,,then finish the whole thing?? Don Greife with were they think the wrap later then ------ Click Here Send and receive Hotmail on yourmobile device: ClickHere from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Mon Apr 15 17:26:47 2002 g3FMQj404443 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:26:46 -0500 by uid 10599 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4196. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.426637 secs); 15 Apr 2002 22:26:45 -0000 (216.153.210.138) Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Scott.After trying to match the red color of old Paynes and other earlyrods with a red color I found that the color on the Paynes were the resultof flame treating the cane with pentane gas. I have a lot of short sectionsof cane that was flamed with Pentane. When you scrape the rind off you getthe red color on the surface of the cane.I tried it with an old pentaneburner and it works. Jim also used Orange extract or oil of orange in hisvarnish. You only need a few drops to get the orange smell. The things we doto make copies of the original rods.Best Hal.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red M-D, I think you are correct, it will take alot of experimentation. I've beencurious about the ammonia process so I'll work on that but the pantonemarkers are intriguing also. I don't think the varnish aging is the source of the red because the where I stripped the varnish off the redness remains. It is not a bad color for a rod so I'd kind of like to figure out how toduplicate it. Thanks for the help! Scott ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:17 AMSubject: Re: Phillipson Red That color may well come from the varnish as it has aged. That would be my first guess. You can try from channer@frontier.net Mon Apr 15 17:34:15 2002 g3FMYF404826 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:34:15 - Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks Tony;I've hung rod sections with 15lbs on them, doesn't help a bit, and don'task me why not, I haven't a clue. All logic points to the sectionscoming out straight as an arrow, but it doesn't work that way .john Tony Young wrote: Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from dongreife@hotmail.com Mon Apr 15 17:55:57 2002 g3FMtu405773 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:55:56 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:55:50 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:55:50 GMT Subject: Re: Rod restoration question FILETIME=[B086A870:01C1E4D0] Terry, I'm pretty much in agreement with Rex on the 'how' he suggestedand can only add a comment about my perseption of "your" words. First, itwould seem right to decide whether you want to 'refinish' or 'restore'. Youhave indicated that the rod is unlikely to be of significant value and notworthy of a restoration job. So, since this has been determined, what do youwant to do with the rod? "Fish it or Sell it? If if is a "Fish it" all that is reallynecessary to do is examine the guides for rust and replace them, revarnishthe freyed thread works and go to the creek. However, if you might everdecide to sell it, or want it to 'look like a fishin' tool", you will have to do alittle more to it. Consider this; If one guide is rusted and one wrap is freyed,it implies that the rod has suffered some water damage because the varnishhas failed and these things require replacement. This says 'strip the rod'.Some guys say they can replace just one guide and make the thread c!olors match the remaining original colors, but not me. Now that you have theguides, ferrules and varnish off, look at the cork and reel seat. This is the the 8 guides with 9, wrap it with 3/0 silk, script it with "CUSTOMIZED by you ever decide to get rid of it. Don Greife tfinger@services.state.mo.us, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Send and receive Hotmail on yourmobile device: ClickHere from jojo@ipa.net Mon Apr 15 17:56:29 2002 g3FMuT405871 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:56:29 -0500 helo=default) id 16xFOd-00071j-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:56:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks As Tony S. said, he and I have discussed it all before, as have you and I, John.I've gone as highas 25 lb. on each section and it didn't make one whit of difference. I believethis is because thestrips cannot slip against one another, being bound at both ends, or within asleeve of some kind. M-D Tony;I've hung rod sections with 15lbs on them, doesn't help a bit, and don'task me why not, I haven't a clue. All logic points to the sectionscoming out straight as an arrow, but it doesn't work that way .john Tony Young wrote: Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 15 18:06:08 2002 g3FN67406417 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:06:08 - 15 Apr 2002 16:06:07 PDT Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Donreally good points. I imagine this rod has varnishlost unless it was not fished because it is at least40-50 years old. --- Don Greife wrote: Terry, I'm pretty much in agreement with Rex on the'how' he suggested and can only add a comment about myperseption of "your" words. First, it would seem rightto decide whether you want to 'refinish' or 'restore'.You have indicated that the rod is unlikely to be ofsignificant value and not worthy of a restoration job.So, since this has been determined, what do you wantto do with the rod? "Fish it or Sell it? If if is a"Fish it" all that is really necessary to do isexamine the guides for rust and replace them,revarnish the freyed thread works and go to the creek.However, if you might ever decide to sell it, or wantit to 'look like a fishin' tool", you will have to doa little more to it. Consider this; If one guide isrusted and one wrap is freyed, it implies that the rodhas suffered some water damage because the varnish hasfailed and these things require replacement. This says'strip the rod'. Some guys say they can replace justone guide and make the thread colors match theremaining original colors, but not me. Now that youhave the guides, ferrules and varnish off, look at thecork and reel seat. This is the ideal oppertunity toreplace either or both with a minimun of effort.Replace the 8 guides with 9, wrap it with 3/0 silk,script it with "CUSTOMIZED by Terry Finger", varnish should you ever decide to get rid of it. DonGreife tfinger@services.state.mo.us, question thought the guides It cast real Tape them back masking tape I comes of with no cast. I would myself to the might as well to upgrade a success. wrote: question below, but decade, I can't PETA discussion: environmentalism are not even politically convenient to adjectives); of discussion this type of threats to our silly, ineffectual generally let sleeping threats mentioned states have laws (I with lawful question: Webercraft 9' 3-pc. replacing. This rod was a plus tip top; only the ferrules. The the guides where they and spacing them the varnish, the rod Obviously, changing the but I'm more changing the guide TurboTax Send and receiveHotmail on your mobile device: ClickHere __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from dongreife@hotmail.com Mon Apr 15 18:08:07 2002 g3FN86406645 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:08:06 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:08:01 -0700 HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:08:01 GMT Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors FILETIME=[63F48980:01C1E4D2] That's very interesting Chris, I had no idea there had been so muchshange to the P&L61 formula. A store in Jefferson City, Mo. has severalquart cans in stock and a "bunch" of gallon cans. Of course I have no ideawhat the date of mfr might be on this stock. There are also a few quart cans 1974. Its favorite pastime of Lambert 61 with the today smells less amber. I do Schooner reminds me Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from jojo@ipa.net Mon Apr 15 18:55:19 2002 g3FNtJ408234 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:55:19 -0500 helo=default) id 16xGJT-0003nH-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:55:12 -0400 Subject: Re: analine dyes Brownell's sells aniline dyes AKA spirit stains (alcohol). They've got =quite a few choices. The US military had a specific color for the stocks =on their rifles, and this did have a red tone to it.Good point about the nitrile gloves, Chris. M-D A little warning for all: ananline dyes cause bladder cancer. I =don't know how much exposure you need, but I would think you'd want to =wear nitrile gloves at the least when dealing with this stuff. Chris Scott, I don't know how hard they are to get but I believe there are also =alcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetrate =something like cane a little better. Art CleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Brownell's sells aniline= military had a specific color for the stocks on their rifles, and this = Good point about the = Chris. M-D Christopher A. = A little = exposure you need, but I would think you'd want to wear nitrile gloves = least when dealing with this stuff. Chris Scott, they are to get but I believe there are also alcohol soluble analine = better. Art from lblan@provide.net Mon Apr 15 19:05:43 2002 g3G05g410180 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:05:42 -0500 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:05:39 -0400 Subject: RE: analine dyes Brownell also has a little treatise on how to use these dyes and what eachcolor tends to do. I don't recall if it is in the catalog, in "GunsmithingKinks", or if it was a brochure included with the dye.Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:51 PM Subject: Re: analine dyes Brownell's sells aniline dyes AKA spirit stains (alcohol). They've gotquite a few choices. The US military had a specific color for the stocks ontheir rifles, and this did have a red tone to it.Good point about the nitrile gloves, Chris. M-D From: Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD A little warning for all: ananline dyes cause bladder cancer. I don'tknow how much exposure you need, but I would think you'd want to wearnitrile gloves at the least when dealing with this stuff. Chris Scott, I don't know how hard they are to get but I believe there are alsoalcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetratesomething like cane a little better. Art CleanDocumentEmail MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)} @font-face { font-family: Tahoma;}@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; =mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer- margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style- parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text- underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style- type: personal-reply; =mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font- family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Brownell also has a little treatise on how to= dyes and what each color tends to do. I don't recall if it is in the = dye.Larry Blan DeLancierSent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:51 dyesBrownell's sells = military had a specific color for the stocks on their rifles, and this = Good point about the = gloves, Chris. M-D Christopher A. = A little = how much exposure you need, but I would think you'd want to wear = stuff. Chris Scott, = hard they are to get but I believe there are also alcohol soluble = (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetrate something like cane a = better. Art from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Apr 15 19:43:44 2002 g3G0hh415933 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:43:43 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Even some of the better "production rods" are short of our modernstandards in the placement of guides. I think that Rex has a point. I have a 7'6" Edwards that I restored. It had 7 snakes and a striping guide. I tried more guides and moving them around and I determined that themanufacturer's original guide placement was about the best. I did, however, increase the guide size a bit for modern lines. I have always been curious about the effect of guides on the stiffness of the action of a rod. Also guides contribute moments to the stresses on the rod. Is less really more? -Doug At 01:19 PM 4/15/2002 -0700, Rex Tutor wrote: I did a Weber / Heddon last year. I thought the guideswere sparse but I stuck with history. It cast realnice, loaded lots of line.I would remove the guides in question. Tape them backon in the new arangement. I use a 1/8 masking tape Iget from automotive paint shops. It comes of with noproblem but holds well enough to lawn cast. I wouldtest my theory out before I resigned myself to thehistorical spacing .If you are goig to do some wraps you might as welltake em off and do them all.I have changed guide spacing and sizes to upgrade asilk line rod to modern lines with success.Good luck and let me know what you do--- Terry Finger wrote: List: I do have a rod restoration question below, buthaving worked as statelegislative staff for nearly a decade, I can'tresist offering a fewcomments on the politics of the PETA discussion: 1. Animal rights and environmentalism are not evenclose to the same thing,even though some find it politically convenient tolump them (usuallypreceded with several derogatory adjectives); 2. PETA proponents love this type of discussionbecause it gives them freepress; 3. Anti-environment folks love this type ofdiscussion because it divertspeople's attention from the real threats to ourfishing: access and habitatdegradation. The bottom line is that PETA is a silly, ineffectualgroup. Wise anglersshould be quietly aware, but generally let sleepingdogs lie and not diverttheir attention from the real threats mentionedabove. I should also addthat Missouri and many other states have laws (Iactually wrote Missouri's)that make it a crime to interfere with lawfulfishing, hunting, or trapping. Now, here is the rod restoration question:I have acquired a Heddon-built Webercraft 9' 3-pc.with dry, frayingoriginal wraps that need replacing. This rod was abudget model, so thereare relatively few quides (eight plus tip top; onlythree on the mid) andthe spacing is rather odd around the ferrules. Thequestion is whether tobe true to history and replace the guides where theyare, or to lose somehistory by adding a few guides and spacing themaccordingly. Aside from thefraying wraps and some marks in the varnish, the rodis in good shape andwill be used for fishing. Obviously, changing theguide spacing willrequire more refinishing work, but I'm moreinterested in hearing the list'sopinions on the philosophy of changing the guidespacing. Thanks in advance, Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Mon Apr 15 20:06:45 2002 g3G16i419089 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:06:44 - , Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Heddon rods often only really differed between grades by the color of reelseat insert, color of wraps, and # of guides. # 20 had more guides than #14, but the cane work looks pretty close. Sinclair states that Heddon usedbetter looking blanks for # 20 and above, the higher the # the better, butsometimes it's pretty hard to tell any difference. If casting performance is your goal, add guides and adjust the spacing, youcan even use the right color thread and almost no one will notice.Historical accuracy in a $200 rod seems kinda pointless. If they wanted tomake a better fishing rod in the old days, they would add guides and chargeanother $2.50 to the price. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Even some of the better "production rods" are short of our modern standards wrong in the placement of guides. I think that Rex has a point. I have a 7'6"Edwards that I restored. It had 7 snakes and a striping guide. I triedmore guides and moving them around and I determined that the manufacturer's original guide placement was about the best. I did, however, increase theguide size a bit for modern lines. I have always been curious about theeffect of guides on the stiffness of the action of a rod. Also guidescontribute moments to the stresses on the rod. Is less really more? -Doug At 01:19 PM 4/15/2002 -0700, Rex Tutor wrote: I did a Weber / Heddon last year. I thought the guideswere sparse but I stuck with history. It cast realnice, loaded lots of line.I would remove the guides in question. Tape them backon in the new arangement. I use a 1/8 masking tape Iget from automotive paint shops. It comes of with noproblem but holds well enough to lawn cast. I wouldtest my theory out before I resigned myself to thehistorical spacing .If you are goig to do some wraps you might as welltake em off and do them all.I have changed guide spacing and sizes to upgrade asilk line rod to modern lines with success.Good luck and let me know what you do--- Terry Finger wrote: List: I do have a rod restoration question below, buthaving worked as statelegislative staff for nearly a decade, I can'tresist offering a fewcomments on the politics of the PETA discussion: 1. Animal rights and environmentalism are not evenclose to the same thing,even though some find it politically convenient tolump them (usuallypreceded with several derogatory adjectives); 2. PETA proponents love this type of discussionbecause it gives them freepress; 3. Anti-environment folks love this type ofdiscussion because it divertspeople's attention from the real threats to ourfishing: access and habitatdegradation. The bottom line is that PETA is a silly, ineffectualgroup. Wise anglersshould be quietly aware, but generally let sleepingdogs lie and not diverttheir attention from the real threats mentionedabove. I should also addthat Missouri and many other states have laws (Iactually wrote Missouri's)that make it a crime to interfere with lawfulfishing, hunting, or trapping. Now, here is the rod restoration question:I have acquired a Heddon-built Webercraft 9' 3-pc.with dry, frayingoriginal wraps that need replacing. This rod was abudget model, so thereare relatively few quides (eight plus tip top; onlythree on the mid) andthe spacing is rather odd around the ferrules. Thequestion is whether tobe true to history and replace the guides where theyare, or to lose somehistory by adding a few guides and spacing themaccordingly. Aside from thefraying wraps and some marks in the varnish, the rodis in good shape andwill be used for fishing. Obviously, changing theguide spacing willrequire more refinishing work, but I'm moreinterested in hearing the list'sopinions on the philosophy of changing the guidespacing. Thanks in advance, Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from tedknott@cogeco.ca Mon Apr 15 20:15:57 2002 g3G1Fv419663 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:15:57 - ,, Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Every older rod that I've refinished showed "ghost" shading where the guidewas located. I suspect that this was the result of less UV light reachingthe wrap-protected bamboo. If you use a different number, or spacing, ofguides, these "ghosts" are quite visible. from beadman@mac.com Mon Apr 15 20:55:48 2002 g3G1tl425358 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:55:47 - 2002)) Subject: Re: Rod restoration question At 8:43 PM -0400 , 4/15/02, Douglas P. Easton wrote about Re: Rod restoration questionI have always been curious about the effect of guides on the stiffness of the action of a rod. Also guides contribute moments to the stresses on the rod. Is less really more? Interesting question, Doug. The added mass of the extra guides indeed increases the moments acting on the rod...Increased moment will mean increased stress to the rod. On the other hand, the wire will act as a stiffener, thereby decreasing the stress on the rod at that point. I'll try to remember this problem next time I have some time to spare with no honey-do's and a quiet house... Claude from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Mon Apr 15 21:09:42 2002 g3G29f427754 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:09:42 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16xINZ-00039m-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:07:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Phillipson Red --------------090806040403070901040301 In restorations, I've had some success with darkening cane using the alcohol soluble dyes bought from Constantines 20 years ago. They're avalable from most woodworking suppliers now. Have also added a bit of alcohol to the water soluble dyes to help penetration on wood and cane. If you get it too dark, try lightening with peroxide. If, on the outside chance you can come by some hydrogen peroxide in 30 or 50% strength, grab it (drug store stuff is 3%). It works wonders on many things. Hard to store for long periods; keep in dark (glass, plastics sometime burst if pressuure builds up) bottle in cool place. Art Port wrote: Scott, I don't know how hard they are to get but I believe there are also alcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetrate something like cane a little better. Art --------------090806040403070901040301 In restorations, I've had some success with darkening cane using the alcoholsoluble dyes bought from Constantines 20 years ago. They're avalable from the outsidechance you can come by some hydrogen peroxide in 30 or 50% strength, grab store for long periods; keep in dark (glass, plastics sometime burst ifpressuure Art Port wrote: Scott, there arealso alcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetratesomething like cane a little better.Art --------------090806040403070901040301-- from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Mon Apr 15 21:11:43 2002 g3G2Bg428241 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:11:42 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16xIPX-0003DD-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:09:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks Hmmmmmm. That would solve some problems .......... Tony Young wrote: Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on the bottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 15 21:14:34 2002 g3G2EX428903 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:14:33 - 15 Apr 2002 19:14:28 PDT Subject: Re: Rod restoration question tfinger@services.state.mo.us, rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu One of my students did his own strip of a South Bendand brought it in. I happened to have a South Bend andwe compared. He had no ghosts at all. They were aboutthe same age but they may not have been exposed to asmuch UV. I reviewed his strip process. He uses Orangestripper. He clops in on and repeats appliocationevery 10 minutes , 4 times or so. He leaves it on anhour. It all wipes off after that. He doesn't scrapein any way. I think it is possible to remove ghosts asI have removed them to a great degree. I think somepart of ghoasts is residual varnish around the wraps .But I am stil working on it. --- Ted wrote: Every older rod that I've refinished showed "ghost"shading where the guidewas located. I suspect that this was the result ofless UV light reachingthe wrap-protected bamboo. If you use a differentnumber, or spacing, ofguides, these "ghosts" are quite visible. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Mon Apr 15 21:43:54 2002 g3G2hs401614 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:43:54 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16xIuh-0003xz-00; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:41:47 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, --------------040604060100010006060700 Rex and Larry: My sincere apologies. You're right. A friend was a POW and the thought of her being here really got to me. Carey Rex Tutor wrote: BarryI could not agree more strongly. Bamboo rod productionas a process is not politcal and this message board,up to this time, has had more dignity than to tossslogans about so easily. --- "Kling, Barry W." wrote: yesterday, dedicating a battered women's shelter. She's in the same crowd of eco-Nazis....> Personally I'm glad we don't have much of this sortof keyboard diarrhea here. I enjoy most messages onthis list, but not this sort of sub-political rant.No, I don't sympathize with PETA, but I'm notinterested in the views of people who still careabout Jane Fonda's politics or think (using the termloosely) that it is clever or sensible to compareNazis, who killed people just like us along withtheir children in rather large numbers (contact meif you hadn't heard about this) and the radical partof the environmental movement. Sloganeering of theopposite political extreme is equally out of placehere in my opinion. When politics does come up (andI agree PETA is a legitimate topic for any listrelated to fishing and the torture of bamboo) Ithank everyone who manages to express themselveswithout slipping into this mode. Barry -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 1:25 AM Cc: JJ_BPK@BellSouth.Net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exemptstatus,, Hell yes, I'll sign it. I'm still boiling because Ifound out late last night the Hanoi Jane was here inlittle ole' Dalton GA yesterday, dedicating abattered women's shelter. She's in the same crowdof eco-Nazis. If her visit had been publicizedbeforehand there would have been hell to pay 'causethere are a lot of guys around who did not accepther apology. Just get me a copy of the petition .......... Don Greife wrote: GOOD SHOW,,,J.J. Don Greife Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, > >> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ --------------040604060100010006060700 friend was a POWand the thought of her being here really got to me. Carey Rex Tutor wrote: BarryI could not agree more strongly. Bamboo rodproductionas a process is not politcal and this message board,up tothis time, has had more dignity than to tossslogans about so easily. <....Hanoi Jane was here in little ole' DaltonGAyesterday, dedicating a battered women's shelter. She's in the have much of this sortof keyboard diarrhea here. I enjoy mostmessages onthis list, but not this sort of sub-political rant.No, Idon't sympathize with PETA, but I'm notinterested in the views of peoplewho still careabout Jane Fonda's politics or think (using thetermloosely) that it is clever or sensible to compareNazis, whokilled people just like us along withtheir children in rather large numbers(contact meif you hadn't heard about this) and the radical partofthe environmental movement. Sloganeering of theopposite politicalextreme is equally out of placehere in my opinion. When politics doescome up (andI agree PETA is a legitimate topic for any listrelatedto fishing and the torture of bamboo) Ithank everyone who manages to express themselveswithout slippinginto this mode. Barry -----Original Message----- JJ_BPK@BellSouth.Net; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exemptstatus,,Hell yes, I'll sign it. I'm still boiling because Ifound out late last nightthe Hanoi Jane was here inlittle ole' Dalton GA yesterday, dedicatingabattered women's shelter. She's in the same crowdof eco-Nazis. If her visit had been publicizedbeforehand there would have been hell to pay 'causethere are a lot of guys around who did notaccepther apology. Just get me a copy of the petition..........Don Greife wrote:GOOD SHOW,,,J.J. DonGreife PETA, __________________________________________________DoYou Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ --------------040604060100010006060700-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 21:54:21 2002 g3G2sJ402006 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:54:20 - Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks I think you'd need to have things reasonably straight to begin with else the splines would have to move too much to allow the blank to cure straight.The reason I thought the chuck may be better than a loop or string is it shouldn't develop a long graceful curve along the length as sometimes happens with loops.You're right though, I'll try it and see. Tony At 01:54 PM 4/15/02 -0500, Tony Spezio wrote: Tony,I bought a few chucks to see about making a rod "stretcher", never gotaroundto it yet. Jo Jo and I did a lot of discussion on it. As far as hangingweights, I have had good and not so good results. I think when I had goodresults it was because I had the blank good and straight. When I had so soresults is because I did not get the blank as straight as I thought. I did notuse a chuck to hang the weight. Just made a loop with the binding cord thatcame off one side and up the other side so that equal weight would be onthetip. Put a cup hook in a plumbers lead stick and hang it in the loop. Give it atry, you have nothing to loose.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Tony Young wrote: Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 21:55:47 2002 g3G2tj402204 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:55:46 -0500 "rod 'akers" Subject: RE: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article Wasn't me. Tony Y At 02:40 PM 4/15/02 -0500, Miller, Troy wrote: Tony??? This is the "other" T -- Troy. : ) Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article I agree Tony. Nice, Well written article Bob. You're right, I'm alreadywanting that beveller.Randall G.----- Original Message -----From: "Miller, Troy" Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 1:49 PMSubject: Latest FAOL Bamboo Article Anybody read Bob's article on FAOL yet? Interesting! Y'all know that Bobis one of my heroes, and this position statement just adds to that.Hopefully, I will have the privilege of making a rod on Bob's newest"contraption"!TAM /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 21:57:15 2002 g3G2vD402431 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:57:14 - Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks Thanks. Too bad, I'd have thought it would be perfect. Tony At 04:34 PM 4/15/02 -0600, channer wrote: Tony;I've hung rod sections with 15lbs on them, doesn't help a bit, and don'task me why not, I haven't a clue. All logic points to the sectionscoming out straight as an arrow, but it doesn't work that way .john Tony Young wrote: Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 21:58:53 2002 g3G2wp402690 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:58:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks That makes sense because the splines would need to be able to slide against each other to allow movement. Tony At 05:52 PM 4/15/02 -0500, Jojo DeLancier wrote: As Tony S. said, he and I have discussed it all before, as have you and I, John. I've gone as highas 25 lb. on each section and it didn't make one whit of difference. I believe this is because thestrips cannot slip against one another, being bound at both ends, or within a sleeve of some kind. M-D From: "channer" Tony;I've hung rod sections with 15lbs on them, doesn't help a bit, and don'task me why not, I haven't a clue. All logic points to the sectionscoming out straight as an arrow, but it doesn't work that way .john Tony Young wrote: Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Apr 15 22:09:52 2002 g3G39p403334 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:09:51 - (authenticated) Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:09:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Claude, Just my $.02, but I believe the weight of the snakes and their wrapsis a far more significant factor than their stiffening effect. Trybending a snake guide by hand. Easy right? Now try bending a hexagonalrod section the same length as a snake guide. Not so easy. A doublefoot stripper might be stiff enough to make some slight difference, butit is placed at the strong end of the rod. I could get more specific, but I think you get the picture. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: At 8:43 PM -0400 , 4/15/02, Douglas P. Easton wrote about Re: Rodrestoration questionI have always been curious about the effect of guides on thestiffness of the action of a rod. Also guides contribute moments tothe stresses on the rod. Is less really more? Interesting question, Doug. The added mass of the extra guidesindeed increases the moments acting on the rod...Increased momentwill mean increased stress to the rod. On the other hand, the wirewill act as a stiffener, thereby decreasing the stress on the rod atthat point. I'll try to remember this problem next time I have some time to sparewith no honey-do's and a quiet house... Claude -- -- Harry Boyd -- http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods --http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 15 22:20:02 2002 g3G3K0403940 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:20:01 - Subject: Re: Rod restoration question I messed with an oldish 7' English rod with many intermediates once by casting it before removing the inters, then cast after the inters were removed and the rod was completely different to before.With the inters the rod was reasonably quick and not too bad surprisingly without them it was terrible. Not only slow but just gutless.To extrapolate this to a normal rod without gadzillions of inters I'd think the binding used to hold the snakes would make a difference but the snakes themselves would be approaching zero effect. Tony At 10:07 PM 4/15/02 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote: Claude, Just my $.02, but I believe the weight of the snakes and their wrapsis a far more significant factor than their stiffening effect. Trybending a snake guide by hand. Easy right? Now try bending a hexagonalrod section the same length as a snake guide. Not so easy. A doublefoot stripper might be stiff enough to make some slight difference, butit is placed at the strong end of the rod. I could get more specific, but I think you get the picture. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: At 8:43 PM -0400 , 4/15/02, Douglas P. Easton wrote about Re: Rodrestoration questionI have always been curious about the effect of guides on thestiffness of the action of a rod. Also guides contribute moments tothe stresses on the rod. Is less really more? Interesting question, Doug. The added mass of the extra guidesindeed increases the moments acting on the rod...Increased momentwill mean increased stress to the rod. On the other hand, the wirewill act as a stiffener, thereby decreasing the stress on the rod atthat point. I'll try to remember this problem next time I have some time to sparewith no honey-do's and a quiet house... Claude -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Mon Apr 15 23:03:27 2002 g3G43Q405152 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:03:26 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Power Fibers April 2002 is now out understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Go to "Current" issue..... Bob, I can't seem to find the April issue. I only see the January 2002 issuewhen I go to your web site. What am I doing wrong? Mark Cole Re: Power Fibers April 2002 is now out Go to "Current" issue..... Bob, Mark Cole from dongreife@hotmail.com Mon Apr 15 23:06:47 2002 g3G46j405364 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:06:45 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:06:40 -0700 HTTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:06:40 GMT Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors FILETIME=[1C74C230:01C1E4FC] Bob, I don't know about aavailability of R10, never tried it,,but will try torun some down for you if you like,,I presume it is P&L stuff. Let me Greife 10, do they? I'm about to give up on finding any and change varnish. I've beenusing R-10 for a decade or so, but now the closest dealer is in Houston. Idon't guess Jeff City or Carthage are much closer for me, but I do have ason that works in St Louis and could make a detour on the way to see him, ifthere is R-10 to be had in the area! Message ----- 6:08 PM so much shange to the P&L61 formula. A store in Jefferson City, Mo.has several quart cans in stock and a "bunch" of gallon cans. Of course I haveno idea what the date of mfr might be on this stock. There are also a fewquart cans in a store in Carthage, Mo. Don Greife regulations in 1974. Its favorite pastime of and Lambert 61 with the today smells -- less amber. I do Interlux Schooner reminds me ------ http://explorer.msn.com. Join the world's largest e-mail servicewith MSN Hotmail. ClickHere from dongreife@hotmail.com Mon Apr 15 23:16:45 2002 g3G4Gi405984 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:16:44 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:16:39 -0700 HTTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:16:38 GMT Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors FILETIME=[815B7D00:01C1E4FD] Chris, In the past I've refinished a bunch of 'no-name' canes and brushedthe varnish. In order to minimize waste of hard to come by #61, I poured itinto baby food jars. I can't say that I know the formulae of the #61 I foundbut it was 'quite' dark in the clear glass jars,,more so than the spar that isreadily available from other mfrs. I liked it because of the color and depth of over the years, used contents listings and not think you will stuff was made That's how I have you over the phone that except that the also have to than those of the usually means no Send and receive Hotmail on yourmobile device: ClickHere from jojo@ipa.net Mon Apr 15 23:17:59 2002 g3G4Hx406210 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:17:59 -0500 helo=default) id 16xKPl-0003nP-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:17:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors I looked on P&L's web site, and couldn't find varnish of any type listed =there. What, you can't have varnished shipped UPS to you, Bob? You don't live =that far out in the sticks. M-D Bob, I don't know about aavailability of R10, never tried it,,but will =try to run some down for you if you like,,I presume it is P&L stuff. Let =me know if you would like some help finding it. Don Greife Those stores don't happen to have P&L's Varmor R-10, do they? I'm =about to give up on finding any and change varnish. I've been using R-10 = guess Jeff City or Carthage are much closer for me, but I do have a son =that works in St Louis and could make a detour on the way to see him, if = Thanks, I looked on P&L'sweb = couldn't find varnish of any type listed there. What, you can't have = sticks. M-D Greife Bob, I don't know about aavailability of R10, never tried it,,but = to run some down for you if you like,,I presume it is P&L stuff. = Greife I'm about to give up on finding any and change varnish. I've been = Jeff City or Carthage are much closer for me, but I do have a son that = in St Louis and could make a detour on the way to see him, if there is = be had in the area! from dongreife@hotmail.com Mon Apr 15 23:33:28 2002 g3G4XR406886 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:33:27 - Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:33:22 -0700 HTTP; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:33:21 GMT Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors FILETIME=[D734CE00:01C1E4FF] Jojo, The retailers of spar tell me that they can't ship UPS or USMScause they don't have a license to ship hazzardous material, as does the discussion group" any type listed there. You don't live that far out in the sticks. it,,but will try to run some down for you if you like,,I presume it is P&Lstuff. Let me know if you would like some help finding it. Don Greife R-10, do they? I'm about to give up on finding any and change varnish. I'vebeen using R-10 for a decade or so, but now the closest dealer is in Houston.I don't guess Jeff City or Carthage are much closer for me, but I do have ason that works in St Louis and could make a detour on the way to see him, ifthere is R-10 to be had in the area! MSN Photos is the easiest way toshare and print your photos: Click Here from jojo@ipa.net Mon Apr 15 23:42:47 2002 g3G4gk407391 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:42:46 -0500 helo=default) id 16xKne-0001dd-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:42:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne wrap colors Yeah, that would be true of the retailers. I was thinking more of having =it dropped shipped from the manufacturer's. I've done this without =problems, though not through P&L. Seems your local retailer would want =to do it for you, after all, he makes the sale. P&L might even sell =direct if there weren't a local retailer. M-D Jojo, The retailers of spar tell me that they can't ship UPS or USMS =cause they don't have a license to ship hazzardous material, as does the =Mfr. Don Greife I looked on P&L's web site, and couldn't find varnish of any type = What, you can't have varnished shipped UPS to you, Bob? You don't = Bob, I don't know about aavailability of R10, never tried it,,but =will try to run some down for you if you like,,I presume it is P&L = Those stores don't happen to have P&L's Varmor R-10, do they? I'm =about to give up on finding any and change varnish. I've been using R-10 = guess Jeff City or Carthage are much closer for me, but I do have a son =that works in St Louis and could make a detour on the way to see him, if = -------------------------------------------------------------------------=-----MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click =Here Yeah, that would betrue = manufacturer's. I've done this without problems, though not through = Seems your local retailer would want to do it for you, after all, he = retailer. M-D Greife Jojo, The retailers of spar tell me that they can't ship UPS or = they don't have a license to ship hazzardous material, as does the = Don Greife = it,,but will try to run some down for you if you like,,I presume it is = do they? I'm about to give up on finding any and change varnish. I've = using R-10 for a decade or so, but now the closest dealer is in = don't guess Jeff City or Carthage are much closer for me, but I do = that works in St Louis and could make a detour on the way to see him, = Here from TBOWDEN@halcyon.com Tue Apr 16 00:28:14 2002 g3G5SD408595 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:28:13 - for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:28:11 - Subject: Re: Taper for heavy flies? I made a Ray Gould "RR84" 8' - WF7 that I use for beach fishing here in the NW. The taper has a swelled butt & very light tip. Once you get the timing down, it can punch out a #4 Clouser or a heavily weighted sculpin pattern. Best of all, it can handle reasonably large salmon (5-8 lb.) but is light enough in the tip so a 12" cutthroat puts a decent bend in the rod. It's not the smoothest or longest casting rod, but it's really fun to fish. from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Tue Apr 16 02:08:28 2002 g3G78Q410335 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:08:26 - id E748ED1C82; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:08:23 +1200 (NZST) +1200 "'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Puzzled This message thread looks like heading down the 'mix ratio' road again. When using epoxies, there is absolutely no choice whatsoever in the mix ratio. You MUST use the manufacturers recommendation, otherwise you have too much resin or too much hardener which will remain unreacted and act as a plasticiser at best. Epoxy hardener reacts with a specific quantity of resin- no more, and no less, ever, no exceptions, final, thats it! If you aren't getting the cure time, setup time or whatever with the resin/hardener you have at the manufacturers recommended ratio, you haveto change products to get the result you want, sometimes you can change the grade of hardener and still use the same resin. You just can not fiddle with the ratio of resin and hardener. In other systems, like Urea Formaldehyde, Melamine Formaldehyde, and polyester, the hardener is a catalyst for the reaction, and you can vary the amount within limits. In these cases, the catalyst speeds up the polymerisation without becoming an important intrinsic part of the polymer. In epoxies, part A molecules join on to the end of the molecules of part B. If you have too many of one or other left over at the end you have a stuff up. Regards to all DGK -----Original Message----- Subject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from a previousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Apr 16 02:48:14 2002 g3G7mC411337 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:48:13 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks A couple of years ago I made a stretcher ala Ray Gould. I didn't found it tomake straighter blanks thoug.....I reacon it was the glue I use, PU which ispretty sticky stuff........... danny Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Tue Apr 16 02:56:11 2002 g3G7uA411656 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:56:10 - id 7702ED2C1A; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:56:08 +1200 (NZST) +1200 Rodmakers Subject: RE: Jacobs chucks Jeez Danny, it depends on what you are starting with! Sorry mate, couldn't resist.... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Jacobs chucks A couple of years ago I made a stretcher ala Ray Gould. I didn't found it tomake straighter blanks thoug.....I reacon it was the glue I use, PU which ispretty sticky stuff........... danny Has anybody actually used a couple of Jacob's chucks with weight on thebottom chuck to hang a freshly glued blank vertically to cure straight? from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 16 03:43:02 2002 g3G8gp412650 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 03:42:56 - "'rodmakers'" Subject: RE: Puzzled Shell Epon will work with a 2:1 resin:hardener or 1:1 Tony At 06:57 PM 4/16/02 +1200, d.kennedy wrote: This message thread looks like heading down the 'mix ratio' road again. When using epoxies, there is absolutely no choice whatsoever in the mixratio. You MUST use the manufacturers recommendation, otherwise youhavetoo much resin or too much hardener which will remain unreacted and actasa plasticiser at best. Epoxy hardener reacts with a specific quantity of resin- no more, and noless, ever, no exceptions, final, thats it! If you aren't getting the cure time, setup time or whatever with theresin/hardener you have at the manufacturers recommended ratio, youhave tochange products to get the result you want, sometimes you can change thegrade of hardener and still use the same resin. You just can not fiddlewith the ratio of resin and hardener. In other systems, like Urea Formaldehyde, Melamine Formaldehyde, andpolyester, the hardener is a catalyst for the reaction, and you can varythe amount within limits. In these cases, the catalyst speeds up thepolymerisation without becoming an important intrinsic part of the polymer.In epoxies, part A molecules join on to the end of the molecules of part B.If you have too many of one or other left over at the end you have a stuffup. Regards to all DGK -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2002 05:04 Subject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from a previousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Apr 16 05:39:08 2002 g3GAd7414073 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 05:39:07 - Subject: Aniline Dyes FYI: Found this site http://www.woodfinishsupply.com Lot of information = http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/PLaniline.html http://www.woodfi=nishsupply.com/PLaniline.html from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Tue Apr 16 06:57:39 2002 g3GBvc415013 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:57:38 - Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:57:37 PDT Subject: Rodmaking heresy Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 16 07:21:58 2002 g3GCLv415638 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:21:57 - Subject: RE: Rodmaking heresy Bill, you heretic. What were you thinking?Of course it works. So does sawing strips and sanding the nodes off. Dowhatever works for you. I think that many people forget that the mastersdidall this sort of heretical stuff and no one holds them to task for it. Icould re-read it, but I don't recall Mr Garrison pressing his nodes flat. Hefiled them flat.A plane would work fine if it is razor sharp. The heat used to press thenodes flat may in the long run be even worse than planing or filing themflat. I press mine, but I don't think there is necessarily a great reason would consider planing or sanding them flat bad.Is there a possible benefit to pressing, yes. But like the continuous fiberargument against sawing strips, I doubt that most casters would care ornotice.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Rodmaking heresy Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from Jkvseafood@aol.com Tue Apr 16 07:38:12 2002 g3GCcB416196 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:38:12 - Subject: Re: Fw: Nifty trick!(off subject) In a message dated 4/15/2002 10:23:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stoltz10@attbi.com writes: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu and a new artificial reef is born:) In a message dated4/15/2002 10:23:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stoltz10@attbi.comwrites: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu and a new artificial reef is born:) from harms1@pa.net Tue Apr 16 07:52:09 2002 g3GCq8416708 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:52:08 - Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Tony and Harry, I'm wondering if it's safe to assume that a larger number of guidesnecesarily stresses a rod more than would fewer guides. It's true, ofcourse, that each guide (its wraps and varnish) adds just that much moreweight, but it's also true that, when casting, a larger number of guides (upto a point that must be determined for each rod) helps to distribute thestress of a rod and to transfer the power of the rod appropriately to theline. As an absurd example, placing just five guides on an eight-foot rod (say, moments of stress. But this would be applicable for a static flex-testonly. In a more realistic scenario, if one were actually to put this rod towork, casting a line 40-50 foot distances, I believe you would be inducingunacceptably high stresses at the guide locations--not because of the guidesthemselves, of course, but because only five points along the eight-footshaft would be asked to do all the work in transfering energy to the line. Conversely, if (on this same rod) one placed, say, nine guides plus thestripper, weight would be increased, causing a proportionate increase inmoments of stress. So, in theory, this would seem to be the wrong thing todo--but, of course, it's not. The problem is that the theory, as far as wehave considered it, is incomplete. Upon actually casting our hypothetical eight-foot rod (now, with the nineguides) we see, instead, that because stresses are now distributedproportionately along the length of the shaft, the rod performs nicely andis able to do the work for which it was intended. It is only BEYOND an optimal point in adding guides that the increasedmoments of stress can become a negative factor, but how many guides thatwill be depends upon the rod, line (and fly), casting distance, and caster. I only offer this because I began to worry that the thread was workingtoward an idea that, because of induced moments of stress, fewer guides isalways better. Guides do not "stiffen" a rod, though wraps themselves may.Neither do guides (and wraps) necessarily "soften" a rod's action uponactual casting. All this needs to be considered in the context of what the"optimal" number of guides would be for a given rod and caster. The fewestnumber of guides that will allow a rod to perform properly will minimizeunnecessary (and detrimental) weight, whereas the greatest number ofguides(short of "bogging" down the rod) will transfer the rod's action best to theline. Ideally, in both cases this number, for a given rod, will be the same\. I also offer my thoughts with apologies to those who actually understandphysics--which I really do not. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rod restoration question I messed with an oldish 7' English rod with many intermediates once bycasting it before removing the inters, then cast after the inters wereremoved and the rod was completely different to before.With the inters the rod was reasonably quick and not too bad surprisinglywithout them it was terrible. Not only slow but just gutless.To extrapolate this to a normal rod without gadzillions of inters I'd think the binding used to hold the snakes would make a difference but thesnakesthemselves would be approaching zero effect. Tony At 10:07 PM 4/15/02 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote: Claude, Just my $.02, but I believe the weight of the snakes and their wrapsis a far more significant factor than their stiffening effect. Trybending a snake guide by hand. Easy right? Now try bending a hexagonalrod section the same length as a snake guide. Not so easy. A doublefoot stripper might be stiff enough to make some slight difference, butit is placed at the strong end of the rod. I could get more specific, but I think you get the picture. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: At 8:43 PM -0400 , 4/15/02, Douglas P. Easton wrote about Re: Rodrestoration questionI have always been curious about the effect of guides on thestiffness of the action of a rod. Also guides contribute moments tothe stresses on the rod. Is less really more? Interesting question, Doug. The added mass of the extra guidesindeed increases the moments acting on the rod...Increased momentwill mean increased stress to the rod. On the other hand, the wirewill act as a stiffener, thereby decreasing the stress on the rod atthat point. I'll try to remember this problem next time I have some time to sparewith no honey-do's and a quiet house... Claude -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Apr 16 07:55:32 2002 g3GCtV416978 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:55:31 -0500 helo=oemcomputer) id 16xSUb-0000Ix-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:55:30 -0400 Subject: Phillipson Red I used Minwax Poly (yellow can- oil based clear gloss) on a browntonerestoration several years ago that left the finish "redder" than I wanted.You might want to try it on a test piece.Ed from harms1@pa.net Tue Apr 16 07:56:53 2002 g3GCuq417193 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:56:53 - Subject: Re: Phillipson Red I was flipping throught my Micro-Mark catalogue, and notice a product used the product is, but it is apparently a chemical of some sort, rather than astain or dye. Anybody know about this? Additionally, I understand that in the past century, furniture makers alsoused a variety of products (chemical and/or natural) that were neitherstains nor dyes. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red In restorations, I've had some success with darkening cane using thealcohol soluble dyes bought from Constantines 20 years ago. They'reavalable from most woodworking suppliers now. Have also added a bit ofalcohol to the water soluble dyes to help penetration on wood and cane. If you get it too dark, try lightening with peroxide. If, on theoutside chance you can come by some hydrogen peroxide in 30 or 50%strength, grab it (drug store stuff is 3%). It works wonders on manythings. Hard to store for long periods; keep in dark (glass, plasticssometime burst if pressuure builds up) bottle in cool place. Art Port wrote: Scott, I don't know how hard they are to get but I believe there are alsoalcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetratesomething like cane a little better. Art from harms1@pa.net Tue Apr 16 08:15:04 2002 g3GDF3418462 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:15:03 - "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: Puzzled DKG, Well, I don't know. This leaves me a little confused. In a spec. sheetavailable through Miller-Stephenson for their Epon resin 828 and Epi-Curehardener 8140, tests were reported using a range of mix-ratios and curingprocesses. Evidently, the highest sheer strength came from a mix-ratioclose to 2-1 (resin-to catalyst), whereas their recommended mix-ratio is1-1. This leads me to believe that nearly anything in between is going tobe ok. Can anybody help to clarify this issue? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Puzzled This message thread looks like heading down the 'mix ratio' road again. When using epoxies, there is absolutely no choice whatsoever in the mixratio. You MUST use the manufacturers recommendation, otherwise youhavetoo much resin or too much hardener which will remain unreacted and actasa plasticiser at best. Epoxy hardener reacts with a specific quantity of resin- no more, and noless, ever, no exceptions, final, thats it! If you aren't getting the cure time, setup time or whatever with theresin/hardener you have at the manufacturers recommended ratio, youhave to change products to get the result you want, sometimes you can changethegrade of hardener and still use the same resin. You just can not fiddlewith the ratio of resin and hardener. In other systems, like Urea Formaldehyde, Melamine Formaldehyde, andpolyester, the hardener is a catalyst for the reaction, and you can varythe amount within limits. In these cases, the catalyst speeds up thepolymerisation without becoming an important intrinsic part of the polymer. In epoxies, part A molecules join on to the end of the molecules of part B. If you have too many of one or other left over at the end you have a stuffup. Regards to all DGK -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2002 05:04 Subject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from apreviousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 16 08:17:12 2002 g3GDHB418773 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:17:11 -0500 helo=default) id 16xSpR-0005W9-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:17:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Puzzled Epon products (at least the ones we use) do indeed have a wide ratio of resinto curing agentmixability. So do the U-40 products. David is correct, though, about thereactive qualities, and onemole of anything will only react with one mole of something else. Anythingnot reacted is justhanging around. Epon 828 and Epi-cure 3140 have an optimum mixing ratio of 100:50 or100:45, depending upon whichpiece of product literature you read. This ratio is determined by weight, not guesstimate using the "by volume" method IF previous weights have beenconverted into the volumeequivalents BUT you are taking a chance. While hit and miss may work in a lotof things in life,chemistry isn't one of them. Mixing at the recommended 100:50 or :45 ratio, 828 and 3140 have somerather extreme properties.Upping the curing agent ratio to 100 parts will not make the bond stronger,in fact it makes theresultant cured product more flexible, and not as strong (which David pointedout). Strength here isrelative, and I have no idea at what point we've crossed the threshold for ourrodmaking. Proper mixing is as important as anything when dealing with epoxies. I mix fora full two minutes,then allow the mixed product a dwell time of five minutes before using it.This allows the reactiona good head-start. Why do I do this? Because it is the recommendedprocedure, and guess what? Idon't have the problems so many others seem to have. SO, it's a crapshoot. You rolls the dice, and you takes your chances. Sometimes you win, sometimesyou lose. Nothing ventured nothing gained. That's all the cheesy adages I canthink of at themoment. Basically, if you depart from product specifications andrecommendations, don't be surprisedwhen you have problems. M-D Shell Epon will work with a 2:1 resin:hardener or 1:1 Tony At 06:57 PM 4/16/02 +1200, d.kennedy wrote: This message thread looks like heading down the 'mix ratio' road again. When using epoxies, there is absolutely no choice whatsoever in the mixratio. You MUST use the manufacturers recommendation, otherwise youhavetoo much resin or too much hardener which will remain unreacted and actasa plasticiser at best. Epoxy hardener reacts with a specific quantity of resin- no more, and noless, ever, no exceptions, final, thats it! If you aren't getting the cure time, setup time or whatever with theresin/hardener you have at the manufacturers recommended ratio, youhave tochange products to get the result you want, sometimes you can change thegrade of hardener and still use the same resin. You just can not fiddlewith the ratio of resin and hardener. In other systems, like Urea Formaldehyde, Melamine Formaldehyde, andpolyester, the hardener is a catalyst for the reaction, and you can varythe amount within limits. In these cases, the catalyst speeds up thepolymerisation without becoming an important intrinsic part of the polymer.In epoxies, part A molecules join on to the end of the molecules of part B.If you have too many of one or other left over at the end you have a stuffup. Regards to all DGK -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2002 05:04 Subject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from a previousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from stuart.rod@gmx.de Tue Apr 16 08:25:27 2002 g3GDPQ419298 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:25:26 - (149.225.125.22) Subject: Intro standard tool Hi List, HELP....... Is anybody else using the intro standard tool from GoldenWitch? Please contact me off list, I need some help (off list because I don'twant the rest of the world to know how stupid I really am!!). Thanks Stuart from harms1@pa.net Tue Apr 16 08:28:02 2002 g3GDS1419595 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:28:01 - Subject: Re: Rodmaking heresy Bill, Your procedure is "heretical" only in the sense that planed or sanded nodesusually reveal quite a bit of run-out fiber on the surface of the finishedrod. Some might think that this translates into a weakening of the strip(or section) at that point, but I'm not so sure that's actually true.(Someone would need to do some"A-B" tests, but not I.) And I think it's because of the impression that run-out fibers "mean"weakness that we have gone the next step in deciding that the look of aplaned or sanded nodes is aesthetically unappealing. In the end, though, Ithink you should build the damn thing any way you like, assured that ifyou're a good maker, your rod will cast as well as the best rods built byanybody else. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Rodmaking heresy Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Tue Apr 16 08:37:12 2002 g3GDbB420265 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:37:11 - 16 Apr 2002 06:37:10 PDT Subject: RE: Rodmaking heresy BillLie Nielsen agents are seeking you out now as we speak, how dare you ! LOLOn my last rod I tried what you are thinking. I havemade 19 rods and wanted to see if it I made adifference. I just planned the nodes. They were bumpywhen I got done glueing it. I took time this round before I started node treatmentto review the node process. I looked in Garrison andWaynes book. To my surprise Garrison speaks tostraightening nodes . Wayne speaks to pressing themwhich I reverted back to on this rod. I think you can tell the difference by appearance butI am sure it is a controversy as to how much thisimpacts the rod .I know other guys are not pressing nodes and liketheir rods just fine. --- Bob Maulucci wrote: Bill, you heretic. What were you thinking?Of course it works. So does sawing strips andsanding the nodes off. Dowhatever works for you. I think that many peopleforget that the masters didall this sort of heretical stuff and no one holdsthem to task for it. Icould re-read it, but I don't recall Mr Garrisonpressing his nodes flat. Hefiled them flat.A plane would work fine if it is razor sharp. Theheat used to press thenodes flat may in the long run be even worse thanplaning or filing themflat. I press mine, but I don't think there isnecessarily a great reason placed on those whowould consider planing or sanding them flat bad.Is there a possible benefit to pressing, yes. Butlike the continuous fiberargument against sawing strips, I doubt that mostcasters would care ornotice.Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of Bill WaltersSent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 7:58 AM Subject: Rodmaking heresy Probably will have my hock blade purchasingprivledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cuttingarecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat-treating. After planning off the humpsIstressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from bhoy551@earthlink.net Tue Apr 16 08:48:05 2002 g3GDm4421150 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:48:04 - Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:47:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Rodmaking heresy FILETIME=[516FABC0:01C1E54D] Bill, Look at the Pezon & Michel site that somebody pointed us to recently. There's a picture of a fella apparently sanding a node on a $1,500 rod. billAt 04:57 AM 4/16/2002 -0700, Bill Walters wrote: Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 16 08:49:36 2002 g3GDnX421364 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:49:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Puzzled Epoxies can be weird to work with though even when you're sure it's done right. I know I shouldn't say that but it's true of course if it doesn't work right when the same batch does most of the time you've obviously done something wrong, you just can't think of what it was and incorrect ratio tending towards too much hardener is normally the cause in my experience.The less lee way you have in the mix ratio the more chance you have of messing up.If you're using small amounts I aim for a 2:1 with epon I've found there are less problems. I always warm the two mixes a little if they are treacle like to they pour better and measure the hardener first so I can adjust with the resin intentionally aiming for something a little less than twice the hardener so it falls somewhere between 1:1 and 2:1 resin:hardener.Mix very well, the longer the better and be careful you don't apply any not mixed improperly that may be around the sides of the container your using to mix it all in. coulors of paint on a palate. When I was involved in boat building the place I worked for had a rule of the minimum amount of glue you should mix because the larger volume mixed the less potential for error. We used a 2:1 glue and used paddles to scoop the glue from the cannisters.One paddle was twice the width of the other with a line marking the high tide mark making getting the right ratio pretty easy even for first year apprentices thought they took some time to learn not to use the wrong (used) paddle in a cannister, we used so much glue it this mixing of resin and hardener in the cannisters was usually ok during the week but having a large amount of a 20kg cannister of epoxy cure over the week end becauseof that was always good for a laugh on Monday morning. Tony At 08:10 AM 4/16/02 -0500, Jojo DeLancier wrote: Epon products (at least the ones we use) do indeed have a wide ratio of resin to curing agentmixability. So do the U-40 products. David is correct, though, about the reactive qualities, and onemole of anything will only react with one mole of something else. Anything not reacted is justhanging around. Epon 828 and Epi-cure 3140 have an optimum mixing ratio of 100:50 or 100:45, depending upon whichpiece of product literature you read. This ratio is determined by weight, not by volume. One canguesstimate using the "by volume" method IF previous weights have been converted into the volumeequivalents BUT you are taking a chance. While hit and miss may work in a lot of things in life,chemistry isn't one of them. Mixing at the recommended 100:50 or :45 ratio, 828 and 3140 have some rather extreme properties.Upping the curing agent ratio to 100 parts will not make the bond stronger, in fact it makes theresultant cured product more flexible, and not as strong (which David pointed out). Strength here isrelative, and I have no idea at what point we've crossed the threshold for our rodmaking. Proper mixing is as important as anything when dealing with epoxies. I mix then allow the mixed product a dwell time of five minutes before using it. This allows the reactiona good head-start. Why do I do this? Because it is the recommended procedure, and guess what? Idon't have the problems so many others seem to have. SO, it's a crapshoot. You rolls the dice, and you takes your chances. Some times you win, sometimesyou lose. Nothing ventured nothing gained. That's all the cheesy adages I can think of at themoment. Basically, if you depart from product specifications and recommendations, don't be surprisedwhen you have problems. M-D From: "Tony Young" Shell Epon will work with a 2:1 resin:hardener or 1:1 Tony At 06:57 PM 4/16/02 +1200, d.kennedy wrote: This message thread looks like heading down the 'mix ratio' road again. When using epoxies, there is absolutely no choice whatsoever in the mixratio. You MUST use the manufacturers recommendation, otherwise youhavetoo much resin or too much hardener which will remain unreacted and actasa plasticiser at best. Epoxy hardener reacts with a specific quantity of resin- no more, and noless, ever, no exceptions, final, thats it! If you aren't getting the cure time, setup time or whatever with theresin/hardener you have at the manufacturers recommended ratio, youhave tochange products to get the result you want, sometimes you can changethegrade of hardener and still use the same resin. You just can not fiddlewith the ratio of resin and hardener. In other systems, like Urea Formaldehyde, Melamine Formaldehyde, andpolyester, the hardener is a catalyst for the reaction, and you can varythe amount within limits. In these cases, the catalyst speeds up thepolymerisation without becoming an important intrinsic part of thepolymer.In epoxies, part A molecules join on to the end of the molecules of part B.If you have too many of one or other left over at the end you have astuffup. Regards to all DGK -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2002 05:04 Subject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from apreviousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from rmoon@ida.net Tue Apr 16 09:04:36 2002 g3GE4Z422495 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:04:35 - Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Come on Harry, get specific! I think you are touching on a pet theory ofmine and I would be so pleased if we were on the same side, But you tellfirst.LOL Ralph Harry Boyd wrote: Claude, Just my $.02, but I believe the weight of the snakes and their wrapsis a far more significant factor than their stiffening effect. Trybending a snake guide by hand. Easy right? Now try bending a hexagonalrod section the same length as a snake guide. Not so easy. A doublefoot stripper might be stiff enough to make some slight difference, butit is placed at the strong end of the rod. I could get more specific, but I think you get the picture. Harry Claude Freaner wrote: At 8:43 PM -0400 , 4/15/02, Douglas P. Easton wrote about Re: Rodrestoration questionI have always been curious about the effect of guides on thestiffness of the action of a rod. Also guides contribute moments tothe stresses on the rod. Is less really more? Interesting question, Doug. The added mass of the extra guidesindeed increases the moments acting on the rod...Increased momentwill mean increased stress to the rod. On the other hand, the wirewill act as a stiffener, thereby decreasing the stress on the rod atthat point. I'll try to remember this problem next time I have some time to sparewith no honey-do's and a quiet house... Claude -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from atlasc1@earthlink.net Tue Apr 16 09:09:57 2002 g3GE9u423034 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:09:56 -0500 ([209.179.147.144] helo=computer) id 16xTeZ-0005IM-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:09:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: Puzzled ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Puzzled Bob, Just my thoughts. I had the exact same situation as you. Nodeless, heattreatment, same glues. First off from what I know about heat treatment in my experiment 15 min at 350* cane will tend to take a set(see powerfibers 6). I would increase the time by at least 10 minutes. 30 mins at 350 is a verygood method. How dry was your cane? If you did not dry it out there may have still been enough moisture left in your cane that 15 mins could not remove. I would recommend at least 60min at 225* to remove all moisture thenincrease the temp to heat treat. Some of us have cane that is dried enough. But all cane is not equal...it is better to be safe then sorry. Second thing: bend your rod tip in the direction the rod is taking a set.Now run your fingernail over the splices in the tip. Do you feel anddiscontinuity? A splice may have come loose. This can and does happen. Trust me. If this is the case use white silk to overwrap the splice and fish therod. Remember some makers will give you the time they use for heat treatingbutthey tend to leave out they flame the cane and heat set their glue for 2hours. The heat applied to cane is cumulative. Hope some of this helps. Adam Vigil----- Original Message -----From: "Robert S Williams" Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:04 AMSubject: Puzzled Last night I was getting ready to ferrule my first nodeless rod andafter flexing the tips sections, I noticed that both tips retained thebend/set. I flexed the tip in the opposite direction and again the setwas retained but in the opposite direction. I guess I'm somewhatpuzzled but this situation. I glued the rod using TBII for the splicesand Epon for gluing the strips together. I can't recall what ratio Imixed the Epon but it was what most people recommended ( from apreviousquestion posted to the list). The heat treating of the nodeless culmsections was done at 350 degrees for 15 minutes and was done by ChrisBogart, so I have to believe that wasn't the problem. Any suggestions?I hate to waste the time finishing the rod if it is going to set soeasy. Other than the rod taking the a set, it looks great. This was my first experience with nodeless, TBII and Epon, prior to thisI've always done noded rods with URAC and never had such a problem. ThanksBob from edriddle@mindspring.com Tue Apr 16 09:14:56 2002 g3GEEt423626 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:14:55 - helo=oemcomputer) id 16xTjO-0007Ow-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:14:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Phillipson Red Bill:I haven't tried that particular product, but I believe it's intended to giveraw soft wood that "old-gray" look. I've been into model railroading for 30 years and there's all kinds oftechniques to age and weather wood. I've used wood stains and various"washes" (pigments mixed with turpentine) on these soft woods to gainrealism, mostly seeking the correct look on aged creosoted wood trestlesandRR ties. I can't think of a "carry-over" to our "coloring" bamboo. FWIW, one fl.oz.bottles of wood stains can be purchased from hobby suppliers, "Flo-Stain" isa brand I've used, kinda pricey.Regards.Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Phillipson Red I was flipping throught my Micro-Mark catalogue, and notice a product used the product is, but it is apparently a chemical of some sort, rather than a from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 16 09:22:16 2002 g3GEM9424251 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:22:09 - Subject: Re: Rod restoration question I think you're right but again I say this because of what I found with the before and after experience of that little rod with the inters. It was a much better rod with them than without. This was an old English rod so is a slow action. Maybe a faster tapered rod wouldn't have the same effect with more wraps.The extra varnish soaked up in the wraps must have some effect to the inertia of the rod and it'd be interesting if somebody with the knowledge and spare time to do it could define just how much say 7 inters between guides would affect a rod's inertia.My thoughts are the extra wraps would speed the action due to controlling the sliding of the splines that seems to take place more than the inertia slows it. Tony At 08:47 AM 4/16/02 -0400, WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Tony and Harry, I'm wondering if it's safe to assume that a larger number of guidesnecesarily stresses a rod more than would fewer guides. It's true, ofcourse, that each guide (its wraps and varnish) adds just that much moreweight, but it's also true that, when casting, a larger number of guides (upto a point that must be determined for each rod) helps to distribute thestress of a rod and to transfer the power of the rod appropriately to theline. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Apr 16 09:27:36 2002 g3GERa424801 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:27:36 - JAA16174 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Last spring I built a nodeless rod on Wayne C's "Sir D" taper.At glueup I had some sort of brain fart and got the strips out oforder somehow, so instead of the splices being staggered as theyshould be, several splices met together. Both tip and butt. So Iadded about a half dozen reinforcing wraps at these points inaddition to guide wraps that covered some junctures. I don't show this rod to people that know what a cane rod shouldlook like, but it really casts like a little demon. Even zippierthan my other Sir D. The more I think about it (often a dangerous practice), the morereasonable it seems that extra wraps more than guides stiffenthe rod. When the rod flexes, the cane must compress on one sideand/or stretch on the other, and become deformed from a hex incross section to something more oval. A small wrap well varnishedmay add enough stiffening to make a difference, by resisting thesemovements. Also if you use a glue that allows any "creep" thewraps would limit this.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 16 09:39:53 2002 g3GEdp425599 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:39:52 - Subject: Re: Rod restoration question There's no question the lateral fibers are sliding along one another some in compression some in expansion no matter where they are on the rod continually altering so if you're constricting how much these fibers can move with binding it has to stiffen the action to my way of thinking. Tony At 09:27 AM 4/16/02 -0500, Frank Stetzer wrote: Last spring I built a nodeless rod on Wayne C's "Sir D" taper.At glueup I had some sort of brain fart and got the strips out oforder somehow, so instead of the splices being staggered as theyshould be, several splices met together. Both tip and butt. So Iadded about a half dozen reinforcing wraps at these points inaddition to guide wraps that covered some junctures. I don't show this rod to people that know what a cane rod shouldlook like, but it really casts like a little demon. Even zippierthan my other Sir D. The more I think about it (often a dangerous practice), the morereasonable it seems that extra wraps more than guides stiffenthe rod. When the rod flexes, the cane must compress on one sideand/or stretch on the other, and become deformed from a hex incross section to something more oval. A small wrap well varnishedmay add enough stiffening to make a difference, by resisting thesemovements. Also if you use a glue that allows any "creep" thewraps would limit this.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from rcurry@ttlc.net Tue Apr 16 10:04:44 2002 g3GF4h427642 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:04:43 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Tony, Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have youever noticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency as they approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons, (and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive's tale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modern makers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to their quiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Young wrote: There's no question the lateral fibers are sliding along one another some in compression some in expansion no matter where they are on the rod continually altering so if you're constricting how much these fibers can move with binding it has to stiffen the action to my way of thinking. Tony from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 16 10:06:09 2002 g3GF68427916 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:06:08 - g3GF66O31714; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:06:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Rodmaking heresy Bill,I have done it both ways, I just get more satisfactionhaving small nodal areas. Rod #1 had the nodes sanded offon a belt sander. No problems with the rod, have takenclose to 300 fish on it. It is still in great conditioneven with the wide nodal areas. BTW I also used Elmer'sCarpenter glue on it too. Now that should start anothertread. Do what suites you, if you are satisfied withlarger nodal areas, just do it. I for one like the smallnodal areas and the power fibers at the nodes left intact.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. Bill Walters wrote: Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Apr 16 10:08:07 2002 g3GF86428249 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:08:06 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 15:12:33 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:06:59 -0700 rodmakers Subject: RE: Rodmaking heresy I've been planing the enamel side of my strips for years. Yes it flattensthe nodes, and most of the water marks are gone. No I haven't noticed anyloss of stiffness.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 4:58 AM Subject: Rodmaking heresy Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 16 10:39:47 2002 g3GFdi400550 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:39:45 - Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Reed, It's funny you mention that because if I ever get around to making myself another rod I'll be using inters to try my thought on this out.Personally I like inters but they are a hassle. At 11:06 AM 4/16/02 -0400, Reed Curry wrote: Tony,Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have you ever noticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency as they approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons, (and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive's tale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modern makers might try using intermediates to add yet anotherarrow to their quiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Young wrote: There's no question the lateral fibers are sliding along one another some in compression some in expansion no matter where they are on the rod continually altering so if you're constricting how much these fibers can move with binding it has to stiffen the action to my way of thinking.Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Tue Apr 16 11:22:59 2002 g3GGMx403329 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:22:59 - g3GGMwo24905 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:22:58 - M2002041611225827492 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:22:58 - Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Most interesting! I just finished a second tip for a rod I'd made a few years back. The "old" rod was a 7' with 8 guides including stripper. The new tip, like the old one, was as close to specs as I could make it. However, I made the new tip with an extra guide so that there were 9 guides on the old butt + new tip. Did the extra guide add stiffness or weight or nothing (as Garrison says)? Weight was the dominant factor! The second tip moves more slowly through a wider arc. The difference is noticeable, but not dramatic. That experiment was suggested by a previous occasion. I jointed up a partially-wrapped tip; it had all the guides installed except for the lowest one. The wraps were sealed, but not varnished. When I gave that rod a flick (no line), the tip vibrated like a tuning fork. It had the worst recovery I have ever seen. The greatest vibration was in the tip; the area where the guide was missing was not 'noticeably' vibrating, although it must have been. Installing the last guide restored the recovery action to normal. On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:06:05 -0400 Reed Curry wrote: Tony,Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have you ever noticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency as they approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons, (and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive's tale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modern makers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to their quiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Young wrote: There's no question the lateral fibers are sliding along one another some in compression some in expansion no matter where they are on the rod continually altering so if you're constricting how much these fibers can move with binding it has to stiffen the action to my way of thinking. Tony -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from rmoon@ida.net Tue Apr 16 11:39:39 2002 g3GGdc405184 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:39:38 - RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod restoration question --------------285EC23265D3E1E494987908 Reed I am inclined to agree with you, but I would think that the establishment ofanykind of standards might be an excercise in futility. For me, I like the look andif it improves the action Hey win double. Ralph Reed Curry wrote: Tony,Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have you evernoticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency asthey approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons,(and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive'stale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modernmakers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to theirquiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------285EC23265D3E1E494987908 ReedI am inclined to agree with you, but I would think that the establishment me,I like the look and if it improves the action Hey win double.RalphReed Curry wrote:Tony, were more useful than we thought. Have you evernoticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequencyasthey approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons,(and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive'stale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modernmakers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to theirquiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ --rmoon@ida.netwww.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------285EC23265D3E1E494987908-- from jerryy@webtv.net Tue Apr 16 11:43:04 2002 g3GGh3405651 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:43:03 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2115.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id JAA11467; ETAuAhUApBhlWc5FIdsUXF+XU75n8REVQfYCFQCT5ePPDgP2KXOpLlsT7AC8lNgfEw== Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Apr 2002 11:23:30 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Have a custom Leonard tournament rod of my fathers that he ordered from1928 to 1932. Just not sure. 9 1/2 ft. plain red wraps, no tipping andno intermediates. 4 1/2 grip, english snakes. Didn't notice aninvisible wrap of 1 1/4" in between the first and second snake guide onthe dry fly tip. Some where I have read that early tournament Leonardswere test cast and sometimes tuned before they were delivered to thecustomer. M. Keanes book maybe. There was no damage to the rod underthe wrap. Cast his 9 ft. Tournament model both before installing theintermediates and after with a King Eider silk line. The difference wasnoticable. Jerry Young from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Apr 16 11:55:22 2002 g3GGtL406531 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:55:21 - ;Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:55:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Rod restoration question All, I think you guys may be on to something here. The thought occurred to =me, "If we have a formula to determine where to place the guides, them =why couldn't we have a combined formula that would determine where the =guides and intermediates should be?" Of course, we could all come to an =agreement to where those places should be. LOL Don Subject: Re: Rod restoration question I am inclined to agree with you, but I would think that the =establishment of any kind of standards might be an excercise in =futility. For me, I like the look and if it improves the action Hey win = Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have = noticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency = they approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons, = tale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modern = makers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to their = All, I think you guys may be on to something= thought occurred to me, "If we have a formula to determine where to = guides, them why couldn't we have a combined formula that would = the guides and intermediates should be?" Of course, we could all come to = agreement to where those places should be. LOL Don From:Ralph W. Moon= Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au ; stetzer@csd.uwm.edu ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:39 AMSubject: Re: Rod restoration question I am inclined to agree with you, but I would think that the = Tony, = Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have you = noticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased = they approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic = (and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old = tale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when = makers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to = quiver. Best regards, Reed http://www.overmywaders.com/ = from rmoon@ida.net Tue Apr 16 11:56:58 2002 g3GGuv406818 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:56:57 - Subject: bamboo rod symposium I don't know how many of you on the list will be attending the East to hold a planning meeting for the Symposium. All of you are invited.It does not matter if you have a part in the symposium, yet, or not. Weneed input and ideas. The time and place will have to be worked outthere. Please check with me. Ralph --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Apr 16 12:01:15 2002 g3GH1F407246 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:01:15 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 17:05:42 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:00:11 -0700 Subject: Rodmaking Heresy I've had several emails asking to elaborate on my comments. It's all in thearchives, but here it is again. The way I heat treat, split, and plane strips, start to finish. I take a split in half culm and torch it using a propane torch. For blonderods I only torch the inside. When you first start torching it you willnotice a swirl of orange flame around the blue propane flame. I move theflame slowly back and forth over about a 3 to 4 inch section until theorange swirl goes away. At that point you will notice that the pith hasturned to charcoal and where the propane flame hits it, it glows red. Thatsection is done, move slowly on down the culm overlapping your 3 - 4 inchsections. The goal here is to get an even amount of heat down the length andside to side, but try and get a bit more heat on the nodes - they arethicker. Item of interest - when you get to the end of the culm, watch theend grain. You will see a liquid bubble and foam out. If you continue toheat this liquid it will turn black and harden. Must be what happens insidethe bamboo too. Sometimes you will ignite the edge, have a glass of waterhandy and just dip your finger in the water and swab the edge to put out theflame. For dark rods, flame the outside just for color. Note: No ovennecessary. Wire brush the charcoaled pith away when cool and start splitting. I split split a 2 inch diameter culm to 32 even strips hasn't practiced enough. 32 Using a #3 bench plane, plane the strips straight. Plane the pith side,sides and enamel side. Yes, plane the enamel side! Plane the nodes flat,plane the enamel away. What about "power fibers"? I haven't seen muchdifference with or without "power fibers". Just make sure your strip has allfibers and no pith. How do I make sure I won't have any pith in my strips? -I just burned and wire brushed all the pith away. All that is left isfibrous bamboo. You now have straight, square strips. No nodes popping out,no need to heat and press them. Rough plane the 60 degree angles, set yourplaning form, and final plane.Darryl Hayashida Please excuse the verbiage that follows. I am sending this from work and ourlegal dept. puts it in automatically. This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from KlingB@health.missouri.edu Tue Apr 16 12:03:34 2002 g3GH3X407579 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:03:33 - Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:03:28 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Rod restoration question Thread-Topic: Rod restoration questionThread-Index: AcHlUwtk61ANzTuISya5JPhSAHTpvgAEsvsA FILETIME=[A0CC7D40:01C1E568] g3GH3Y407580 I had some experiences related to the effect of guide wraps. I used to makenodeless rods and had chronic problems with scarf joint failures. I won't gointo the whole saga but my conclusion was that the only way I could makenodeless rods that did not eventually fail at the scarf joints was to use thestrongest of glues - URAC or Resorcinol, I didn't try epoxy - for the sections.Titebond II (as the main glue for the sections, not just for the scarfs) andPoly-U's didn't do the job. I THINK what happens is that the really strong glueshold the scarf joints in place by binding their non-scarf surfaces to adjacentstrips, since no glue I ever tried could consistently produce scarf joints thatdid not fracture initially along the glue line when tested as separate strips -many fractured partially in the bamboo, but the break always started at theglue line, and it's the beginning of the break that seals the joint's fate. I thinkTitebond and other glues are fine for rods with no!des, they just (at least for me) couldn't add the extra strength required tokeep the scarf joints together. And yes I tried every method known torodmakers to make good scarf joints (sanding with various grades, planning,various kinds of clampint, etc), and several different glues including PU andURAC as well as TBII. Anyhow this is a long way of explaining that I've had too many rods thatbecame kindling, but before burning them I broke them up to see how theyfractured. Some of them had clear silk reinforcing wraps at various places,and of course there were the guide wraps, which I did not fully cut whenremoving the guides (I'd cut one foot loose but pull the other out from underits wrap). I was really impressed by the way the reinforcing wraps (or guidewraps when they happened to reinforce a scarf joint) kept those jointstogether. When they didn't break at scarf joints, the rods tended to break atthe edge of wraps. To me this says that the wraps add a really significantamount of strength, but also that they produce an area of extra stress atthe edge of the wrap, much as a metal ferrule does with its sleeve. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Last spring I built a nodeless rod on Wayne C's "Sir D" taper.At glueup I had some sort of brain fart and got the strips out oforder somehow, so instead of the splices being staggered as theyshould be, several splices met together. Both tip and butt. So Iadded about a half dozen reinforcing wraps at these points inaddition to guide wraps that covered some junctures. I don't show this rod to people that know what a cane rod shouldlook like, but it really casts like a little demon. Even zippierthan my other Sir D. The more I think about it (often a dangerous practice), the morereasonable it seems that extra wraps more than guides stiffenthe rod. When the rod flexes, the cane must compress on one sideand/or stretch on the other, and become deformed from a hex incross section to something more oval. A small wrap well varnishedmay add enough stiffening to make a difference, by resisting thesemovements. Also if you use a glue that allows any "creep" thewraps would limit this.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from hartzell@easystreet.com Tue Apr 16 13:39:10 2002 g3GId9413882 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:39:09 - g3GId0b12265; Don Schneider , rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Phillipson Red Bill,There were some old methods of darkening or changing the color ofcertainwoods. Of course bamboo and oak darken with the application of ammonia. Iknow that pine and cherry change color with the application of a lye solutionthat old timers got by collecting ashes from teir fireplace and making awatersolution of them. There are obviously other methods ,but you may try thelyeand see if it works. Lye can be procured from most hardware stores. It isusedas a drain cleaner. Try to get the pure stuff.Ed WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I was flipping throught my Micro-Mark catalogue, and notice a product used the product is, but it is apparently a chemical of some sort, rather than astain or dye. Anybody know about this? Additionally, I understand that in the past century, furniture makers alsoused a variety of products (chemical and/or natural) that were neitherstains nor dyes. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "crmitchell" Cc: ; "Don Schneider" ; Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:09 AMSubject: Re: Phillipson Red In restorations, I've had some success with darkening cane using thealcohol soluble dyes bought from Constantines 20 years ago. They'reavalable from most woodworking suppliers now. Have also added a bit ofalcohol to the water soluble dyes to help penetration on wood and cane. If you get it too dark, try lightening with peroxide. If, on theoutside chance you can come by some hydrogen peroxide in 30 or 50%strength, grab it (drug store stuff is 3%). It works wonders on manythings. Hard to store for long periods; keep in dark (glass, plasticssometime burst if pressuure builds up) bottle in cool place. Art Port wrote: Scott, I don't know how hard they are to get but I believe there are alsoalcohol soluble analine (sp?) dyes out there too. They might penetratesomething like cane a little better. Art from harms1@pa.net Tue Apr 16 14:36:11 2002 g3GJaA422676 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:36:10 - Subject: Re: Rodmaking heresy Tony, I'm sure there's no reason why anyone would care, but "just for the record,"I too like the looks of the small nodal area. And as for theElmer's Carpenter Glue, I used nothing else from the mid 1970s until aboutfour years ago. The only reason I changed was because of the devilish timeI had in straightening after the glue-up. The Elmers just breaks down tooeasily under heat, but otherwise, those old rods are still going strong. cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rodmaking heresy Bill,I have done it both ways, I just get more satisfactionhaving small nodal areas. Rod #1 had the nodes sanded offon a belt sander. No problems with the rod, have takenclose to 300 fish on it. It is still in great conditioneven with the wide nodal areas. BTW I also used Elmer'sCarpenter glue on it too. Now that should start anothertread. Do what suites you, if you are satisfied withlarger nodal areas, just do it. I for one like the smallnodal areas and the power fibers at the nodes left intact.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com. Bill Walters wrote: Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Apr 16 14:57:14 2002 g3GJvE424321 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:57:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Power Fibers - Help Bob, What a difference a day makes. I logged on this afternoon and went to your web site and had no trouble down loading the April issue. Yesterday I tried all the suggestions you made but, non worked. Thanks for the great magazine. Keep up the great work. Mark Cole Bob, went to your web site and had no trouble down loading the April issue. Mark Cole from flyfish@gbronline.com Tue Apr 16 15:45:49 2002 g3GKjm427681 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:45:48 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 Subject: tightening ferrules I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a little loose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when the rod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to. The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg from rextutor@yahoo.com Tue Apr 16 16:13:21 2002 g3GLDK400570 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:13:20 - 16 Apr 2002 14:13:19 PDT Subject: Re: tightening ferrules GregYou wrote I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are alittle loose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid thatthey will not hold when the rod is cast If the fit is tight, are they loose on the rod ? Thatis do they need to be reglued. Do they rattle ? If aferrule rattles I pull pins if present, heat and pullferrule and reglue. If the male is worn down , I willbe interested in some of the metal working responcesto this but I always replace. I have a collection ofold ferrule parts , some useless until I shave themale down a 64th on fit them to a unpaired femaile; they came off H-Is and Montagues . Where you located ? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 16 16:19:42 2002 g3GLJg401126 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:42 - g3GLJZO08463; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:19:35 -0500 Subject: Re: tightening ferrules Greg.I have done this on some older rods and the cheap ferrule I used on my firstrod.Wrap a layer of masking tape on the ferrule. I used a large drill chuck andtightened it on the female, Rotated it 1/3 of a turn and did the same onceagain.. Keep doing this and fitting till you are satisfied with the fit.. Ihave to do this once in a while on the cheap ferrule I have on Rod # 1. Ishould get around to changing it some day.I am sure there are other ways.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Greg Kuntz wrote: I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a littleloose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when therod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to.The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 16 16:24:03 2002 g3GLO2401730 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:24:02 - Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:24:02 PDT Subject: Re: tightening ferrules Rodmakers a temp fix is to put just a small drop of super glueon the male slide and wipe it off (let it dry beforeslipping it into the female). it isn't permanent butit will last a long time and it is invisible. timothy --- Rex Tutor wrote: GregYou wrote I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules arealittle loose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid thatthey will not hold when the rod is cast If the fit is tight, are they loose on the rod ?Thatis do they need to be reglued. Do they rattle ? If aferrule rattles I pull pins if present, heat andpullferrule and reglue. If the male is worn down , Iwillbe interested in some of the metal working responcesto this but I always replace. I have a collection ofold ferrule parts , some useless until I shave themale down a 64th on fit them to a unpaired femaile; they came off H-Is and Montagues . Where you located? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 16 16:24:30 2002 g3GLOT401854 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:24:29 - 16 Apr 2002 17:24:21 -0400 Subject: RE: Rod restoration question ruler next to the blank and mark off 1' marks. I wrap the intermediatesthere. To me, it may be unorthodox, but it is easy to figure, and it looksreally nice.Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:01 PM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod restoration question All, I think you guys may be on to something here. The thought occurred to me,"If we have a formula to determine where to place the guides, them whycouldn't we have a combined formula that would determine where the guidesand intermediates should be?" Of course, we could all come to an agreementto where those places should be. LOL Don----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W. Moon RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Rod restoration question ReedI am inclined to agree with you, but I would think that the establishmentof any kind of standards might be an excercise in futility. For me, I likethe look and if it improves the action Hey win double. Ralph Reed Curry wrote: Tony,Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Haveyou evernoticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency asthey approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons,(and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive'stale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modernmakers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to theirquiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ --rmoon@ida.netwww.ida.net/users/rmoon intermediates (Which I love BTW), I find the middle mark. I place a = to the blank and mark off 1' marks. I wrap the intermediates there. To = nice.Bob SchneiderSent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:01 = stetzer@csd.uwm.edu; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject:Re: = restoration questionAll, I think you guys may be on to = thought occurred to me, "If we have a formula to determine where to = guides, them why couldn't we have a combined formula that would = where the guides and intermediates should be?" Of course, we could all = an agreement to where those places should be. LOL Don From:Ralph W. Moon= Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au ; stetzer@csd.uwm.edu ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:39 AMSubject: Re: Rod restoration question I am inclined to agree with you, but I would think that the = me, I like the look and if it improves the action Hey = Tony, = Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have you = noticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased = they approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic = (and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old = tale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when = makers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to = from tim.watson@watsonsrods.co.uk Tue Apr 16 16:35:32 2002 g3GLZV402859 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:35:32 - helo=sysmtim) id 16xabq-00071i-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:35:30 +0100 Subject: Seasons Guys,In the UK we have a `closed' season when fishing is not allowed on manywatersThis may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly fishingin the US?If so is it nationwide or is it governed by each state?Any info gratefully acceptedThanksTim. NormalDocumentEmail Guys, In the UK we have a ‘closed’ season when fishing is =not allowed on manywaters This may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for =flyfishing in the US? If so is it nationwide or is it governed by each =state? Any info gratefully accepted Thanks Tim. from tim.watson@watsonsrods.co.uk Tue Apr 16 16:35:51 2002 g3GLZo402920 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:35:50 - helo=sysmtim) id 16xabs-00071i-00; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:35:32 +0100 Subject: RE: tightening ferrules I too have done the chuck trick on a number of rods and it works well butit's one of those things that needs doing really carefully.Although it means taking the male off the rod I have grown them but gettingvery fine sand, filling the male, finding a pin punch tat is as close to the the pin punch a sharp accurate hit into the sand. If you have a problem ona restoration job it may be possible to do a bit of both and bring back theferrules to a good fitTim.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tightening ferrules Greg.I have done this on some older rods and the cheap ferrule I used on my firstrod.Wrap a layer of masking tape on the ferrule. I used a large drill chuck andtightened it on the female, Rotated it 1/3 of a turn and did the same onceagain.. Keep doing this and fitting till you are satisfied with the fit.. Ihave to do this once in a while on the cheap ferrule I have on Rod # 1. Ishould get around to changing it some day.I am sure there are other ways.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Greg Kuntz wrote: I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a littleloose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when therod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to.The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Apr 16 16:39:29 2002 g3GLdS403487 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:39:28 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 21:43:55 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:38:24 -0700 Subject: RE: tightening ferrules One thing I've always wanted to try, but don't have the resources for:Take a tubing cutter and change the cutter wheel to a flat roller like theother two. Then you would be able to tighten the female side of the ferrule around, etc. Just like you would do to cut a pipe, but with three flatrollers it would crimp the female down, tightening it on the male side. Ithink it would work......Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: tightening ferrules I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a little loose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when the rod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to. The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from ChristopherO@epicimaging.com Tue Apr 16 16:43:17 2002 g3GLhG403973 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:43:16 - id ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:37:39 -0700 flyfish@gbronline.com Subject: RE: tightening ferrules Ray gould's first book has a short section on "snugging" female ferrules.He uses two cold rolled mild steel bars, with a hole drilled between them ofthe appropriate size, to uniformly squeeze the female around hercircumference. Its clearer if you see the picture and the text at the same time. Chris. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: tightening ferrules Greg.I have done this on some older rods and the cheap ferrule I used on my firstrod.Wrap a layer of masking tape on the ferrule. I used a large drill chuck andtightened it on the female, Rotated it 1/3 of a turn and did the same onceagain.. Keep doing this and fitting till you are satisfied with the fit.. Ihave to do this once in a while on the cheap ferrule I have on Rod # 1. Ishould get around to changing it some day.I am sure there are other ways.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Greg Kuntz wrote: I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a littleloose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when therod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to.The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 16 17:06:05 2002 g3GM64405212 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:06:04 - ;Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:05:58 +0000 "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Rodmaking heresy Also Bill, I think I remember you saying that you never saw a rod break at anode. I have never seen one break there likewise so I guess that the nodesmust be pretty strong. Jack ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Rodmaking heresy Bill, Your procedure is "heretical" only in the sense that planed or sanded nodes usually reveal quite a bit of run-out fiber on the surface of the finishedrod. Some might think that this translates into a weakening of the strip(or section) at that point, but I'm not so sure that's actually true.(Someone would need to do some"A-B" tests, but not I.) And I think it's because of the impression that run-out fibers "mean"weakness that we have gone the next step in deciding that the look of aplaned or sanded nodes is aesthetically unappealing. In the end, though, I think you should build the damn thing any way you like, assured that ifyou're a good maker, your rod will cast as well as the best rods built byanybody else. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Bill Walters" Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 7:57 AMSubject: Rodmaking heresy Probably will have my hock blade purchasing privledgesrevoked for saying this, but can anyone tell me whynodes have to be small, or for that matter why theyhave to be pressed? Last night I was starting a rod the nodes and sand to feather the edges. Looks goodand seems to work fine. Sure was easier than cutting arecess on the back and pressing the nodes into it.Also, I'm not expecting the nodes to "pop" when I'mdoing my heat- treating. After planning off the humps Istressed the strips to see if it created anyweaknesses and the strip behaved normally with theusual smooth curve. Bill Walters __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from rbrand@mmcable.com Tue Apr 16 17:07:33 2002 g3GM7X405435 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:07:33 - Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:04:52 -0500 Subject: Re: tightening ferrules It works. Later Rodney Brand Subject: RE: tightening ferrules One thing I've always wanted to try, but don't have the resources for:Take a tubing cutter and change the cutter wheel to a flat roller like theother two. ......Darryl Hayashida from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 16 17:08:11 2002 g3GM8A405619 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:08:10 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Seasons Each state is different. The only areas regulated by a Federal =force are the National Parks. Given our diverse climates and types of =trout fisheries, some states have a season (when I lived in Idaho, I =believe it was Memorial Day weekend opened trout season and November 1st=closed it... LONG time ago), but here in the southern US, where most of =our trout fisheries are tailwaters and there are no "native" trout, =there is no closed season.Even in some of the states where there are seasons, for instance = Harvest" waters. (Is it still that way Ralph?) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Seasons Guys, In the UK we have a 'closed' season when fishing is not allowed on = This may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly =fishing in the US? If so is it nationwide or is it governed by each state? Any info gratefully accepted Thanks Tim. NormalDocumentEmail @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt =72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.4pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.4pt; =mso- paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast- font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size:=10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font- family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} Tim, diverse climates and types of trout fisheries, some states have a season = lived in Idaho, I believe it was Memorial Day weekend opened trout = November 1st closed it... LONG time ago), but here in the southern US, = most of our trout fisheries are tailwaters and there are no "native" = there is no closed season. states = there are seasons, for instance Idaho, there are waters you can fish = Ralph?) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Tim Watson Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Seasons Guys, UK we have a ‘closed’ season when fishing is not allowed = may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly fishing = US? state? info gratefully acceptedThanksTim. from CAIrvinerods@aol.com Tue Apr 16 17:16:12 2002 g3GMGB406496 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:16:11 - for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:15:59 - Subject: Tightening Ferrules Darryl Hayashida's idea works very well, have used it for years, easy to make and easy to control. Tight lines, Chuck Darryl Hayashida's idea works very well, have used it Tight lines, Chuck from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Apr 16 17:35:00 2002 g3GMYx407682 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:34:59 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 22:39:26 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:33:56 -0700 Subject: RE: Tightening Ferrules Chuck,Sounds like a business opportunity to me...I'd like to order one.Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: Tightening Ferrules Darryl Hayashida's idea works very well, have used it for years, easy tomake and easy to control. Tight lines, Chuck This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Apr 16 17:47:24 2002 g3GMlN408262 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:47:23 - Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:47:17 +0000 Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Bob, Spacing the intermediates as you said, mid point and then every inch, =sounds like a simple way to go about it. It would also make a easy way =to measure the fish :>) I'm putting together a Trout/Light Salmon wet =fly rod and think I'll give it a try.Thanks, Don Subject: RE: Rod restoration question ruler next to the blank and mark off 1' marks. I wrap the intermediates =there. To me, it may be unorthodox, but it is easy to figure, and it =looks really nice.Bob Bob, Spacing the intermediates as you said,= try.Thanks, Don From:Bob = Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au ; stetzer@csd.uwm.edu ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 2:24 PMSubject: RE: Rod restoration question intermediates (Which I love BTW), I find the middle mark. I place a = to the blank and mark off 1' marks. I wrap the intermediates there. To = nice.Bob from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Apr 16 18:09:52 2002 g3GN9q409228 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:09:52 - Subject: Reel Chioce All,I'm putting together a Trout/ Light Salmon rod. Thinking of using a =Hardy 3-3/4" St Aiden, 3-3/8" Zenith or 3-5/8" Marquis. Any words of =wisdom or suggestions would be deeply appreciated.TIA, Don All,I'm putting together a Trout/ Light = Any words of wisdom or suggestions would be deeply =appreciated.TIA,Don from GLC2222@aol.com Tue Apr 16 18:14:19 2002 g3GNEI409533 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:14:18 - for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:14:08 - Subject: unsubscribe rodmakers from stoltz10@attbi.com Tue Apr 16 19:17:45 2002 g3H0Hj411075 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:17:45 - Subject: Re: Seasons Bob is right it varies from state to state and from water ways with in =the states as well. Here in Oregon we have some waters that are open =year around and others that have specific seasons. Tim Subject: Re: Seasons Each state is different. The only areas regulated by a Federal =force are the National Parks. Given our diverse climates and types of =trout fisheries, some states have a season (when I lived in Idaho, I =believe it was Memorial Day weekend opened trout season and November 1st=closed it... LONG time ago), but here in the southern US, where most of =our trout fisheries are tailwaters and there are no "native" trout, =there is no closed season.Even in some of the states where there are seasons, for instance = Harvest" waters. (Is it still that way Ralph?) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Seasons Guys, In the UK we have a 'closed' season when fishing is not allowed on = This may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly =fishing in the US? If so is it nationwide or is it governed by each state? Any info gratefully accepted Thanks Tim. NormalDocumentEmail @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt =72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.4pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.4pt; =mso- paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast- font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size:=10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font- family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} Bob is right it varies from state to = that are open year around and others that have specific =seasons. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: Seasons Tim, our diverse climates and types of trout fisheries, some states have a = (when I lived in Idaho, I believe it was Memorial Day weekend opened = season and November 1st closed it... LONG time ago), but here in the = US, where most of our trout fisheries are tailwaters and there are no = trout, there is no closed season. there are seasons, for instance Idaho, there are waters you can fish = Ralph?) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Tim Watson Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Seasons Guys, the UK we have a =91closed=92 season when fishing is not allowed on = may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly = the US? state? info gratefully acceptedThanksTim. from rmoon@ida.net Tue Apr 16 19:40:50 2002 g3H0en411939 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:40:49 - 0000 Subject: Re: Seasons --------------F76CAE61DA19BF2729862B5F Many of Idaho's water that are open year round do allow for somecatchable fish. Howeverstronger restrictions on some species havevirtually turned these into no kill areas. For example, the Henry'sfork where I live has a year round season, but Cutthroats and CutHybrids cannot be kept. Other species can only be kept under 6" or over16". It really then becomes almost catchand release. Ralph Bob Nunley wrote: Tim, Each state is different. The only areas regulated by aFederal force are the National Parks. Given our diverse climates andtypes of trout fisheries, some states have a season (when I lived in November 1st closed it... LONG time ago), but here in the southern US,where most of our trout fisheries are tailwaters and there are no"native" trout, there is no closed season. Even in some of thestates where there are seasons, for instance Idaho, there are watersyou can fish year round, but they are "No Harvest" waters. (Is itstill that way Ralph?) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------F76CAE61DA19BF2729862B5F Many of Idaho's water that are open year round do allow for some catchable I live has a year round season, but Cutthroats and Cut Hybrids cannot be It really then becomes almost catchand release.RalphBob Nunley wrote: NormalDocumentEmail @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.4pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.4pt; mso-paper- source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT- SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; mso- style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times NewRoman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast- font-family: "Times NewRoman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times NewRoman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal- compose; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi- font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi- font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} fisheries, some states have a season (when I lived in Idaho, I believeit was Memorial Day weekend opened trout season and November 1st closedit... LONG time ago), but here in the southern US, where most of our troutfisheries are tailwaters and there are no "native" trout, there is no closed thestates where there are seasons, for instance Idaho, there are waters youcan fish year round, but they are "No Harvest" waters. (Is it still that Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- rmoon@ida.netwww.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------F76CAE61DA19BF2729862B5F-- from sfario@hotmail.com Tue Apr 16 19:45:50 2002 g3H0jn412310 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:45:49 - Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:45:43 -0700 Subject: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 FILETIME=[34B44E30:01C1E5A9] Has anyone built the Cattanach rod 8052 from the taper archive? I =would appreciate your impressions. Looking at the stress curves, it =seems like a lighter weight Para 15. (It has a 14 ferrule). This may =be what I'm looking for as I want a Para 15 type rod but not one that =throws a WF 7 line.ThanksBob A Has anyone built the Cattanach rod8052 = but not one that throws a WF 7 line.ThanksBob A from flyfish@gbronline.com Tue Apr 16 19:51:24 2002 g3H0pN412666 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:51:23 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1)Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 Subject: Re: tightening ferrules --------------070804030305060702020908 Your post got me thinking--I do some handloading, and I looked at the chuck for my case trimmer. It looked like one of the steps would be close to the OD of the female ferrule. I took the cutter and pilot out of the handle side, and threaded the rod section through the handle, set it in the chuck, and tightened the chuck. Siince it's meant for the rims of centerfire cases, it left only small, buffable marks on the rim of the ferrule, and it tightened it enough so that the male doesn't slide out now. I'm also going to look for a roller to cannibalize one of my tubing cutters in case I don't have the right size chuck for my case trimmer Thanks for the inspiration GregHayashida Darryl wrote: One thing I've always wanted to try, but don't have the resources for:Take a tubing cutter and change the cutter wheel to a flat roller like theother two. Then you would be able to tighten the female side of the ferrule around, etc. Just like you would do to cut a pipe, but with three flatrollers it would crimp the female down, tightening it on the male side. Ithink it would work......Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: tightening ferrules I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a little loose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when the rod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to. The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. --------------070804030305060702020908 Your post got me thinking--I do some handloading, and I looked at the chuck close to handleside, and threaded the rod section through the handle, set it in the chuck, cases,it left only small, buffable marks on the rim of the ferrule, and it tightened I'm also going to look for a roller to cannibalize one of my tubing cuttersin case I don't have the right size chuck for my case trimmer Thanks for the inspiration GregHayashida Darryl wrote: One thing I've always wanted to try, but don't have theresources for:Take a tubing cutter and change the cutter wheel to aflat roller like theother two. Then you would be able to tighten thefemale side of the ferruleby tightening the tool on it, roll it around,tighten a little more, roll itaround, etc. Just like you would do to cut apipe, but with three flatrollers it would crimp the female down,tightening it on the male side. Ithink it would work......DarrylHayashida working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a little loose--they fitsnugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when the rod is cast--any section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to. The ferrules areNS, if that helps.TIA.Greg This electronic message transmission,including any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare HealthSystems Inc. which may be confidential or privileged. The information isintended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you arenot the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distributionor use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If youhave received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the senderimmediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronicand hard copies of the communication, includingattachments. --------------070804030305060702020908-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 16 19:59:53 2002 g3H0xp413158 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:59:51 - , Subject: RE: Rod restoration question That's how I've done them and it looks pretty nice if you're into fly rod bondage, sometimes I am.....heh heh [:-)] Tony At 05:24 PM 4/16/02 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote: ruler next to the blank and mark off 1' marks. I wrap the intermediates there. To me, it may be unorthodox, but it is easy to figure, and it looks really nice.Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Don SchneiderSent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:01 PM Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au; stetzer@csd.uwm.edu;RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod restoration question All, I think you guys may be on to something here. The thought occurred to me, "If we have a formula to determine where to place the guides, them why couldn't we have a combined formula that would determine where the guides and intermediates should be?" Of course, we could all come to an agreement to where those places should be. LOL Don----- Original Message -----From: Ralph W. Moon Cc: avyoung@iinet.net.au ; stetzer@csd.uwm.edu ; RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:39 AMSubject: Re: Rod restoration question Reed I am inclined to agree with you, but I would think that the establishment of any kind of standards might be an excercise in futility. For me, I like the look and if it improves the action Hey win double. Ralph Reed Curry wrote: Tony,Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have you evernoticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency asthey approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons,(and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive'stale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modernmakers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to theirquiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Apr 16 20:03:21 2002 g3H13K413488 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:03:20 - Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:03:14 +0000 Subject: Re: Seasons What really drives you whacko in Washington is on the same river Salmon =will be closed and Steelhead will be open or just the opposite. I =release everything anyway, yes including the Salmon and hatchery =Steelhead, so I don't worry much about it. Subject: Re: Seasons Bob is right it varies from state to state and from water ways with in =the states as well. Here in Oregon we have some waters that are open =year around and others that have specific seasons. Tim Subject: Re: Seasons Each state is different. The only areas regulated by a Federal =force are the National Parks. Given our diverse climates and types of =trout fisheries, some states have a season (when I lived in Idaho, I =believe it was Memorial Day weekend opened trout season and November 1st=closed it... LONG time ago), but here in the southern US, where most of =our trout fisheries are tailwaters and there are no "native" trout, =there is no closed season.Even in some of the states where there are seasons, for instance = Harvest" waters. (Is it still that way Ralph?) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Seasons Guys, In the UK we have a 'closed' season when fishing is not allowed on = This may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly =fishing in the US? If so is it nationwide or is it governed by each state? Any info gratefully accepted Thanks Tim. NormalDocumentEmail @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt =72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.4pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.4pt; =mso- paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast- font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size:=10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font- family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} What really drives you whacko in = the same river Salmon will be closed and Steelhead will be open or just = opposite. I release everything anyway, yes including the Salmon and = Steelhead, so I don't worry much about it. From:Tim =Stoltz Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 5:17 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Bob is right it varies from state to = that are open year around and others that have specific =seasons. Tim ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: Seasons Tim, our diverse climates and types of trout fisheries, some states have a = (when I lived in Idaho, I believe it was Memorial Day weekend opened = season and November 1st closed it... LONG time ago), but here in the = US, where most of our trout fisheries are tailwaters and there are no = trout, there is no closed season. there are seasons, for instance Idaho, there are waters you can fish = Ralph?) Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Tim Watson Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Seasons Guys, the UK we have a =91closed=92 season when fishing is not allowed on = may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly = the US? state? info gratefully acceptedThanksTim. from cw@vanion.com Tue Apr 16 20:36:24 2002 g3H1aN414423 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:36:23 - for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 19:41:25 - Subject: Re: tightening ferrules Darryl, I made a cutter just as you described, it does work, but can fatiguelighter metal, like older cheaper ferrules. Haven't used it on anythingmodern.Chad-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: tightening ferrules One thing I've always wanted to try, but don't have the resources for:Take a tubing cutter and change the cutter wheel to a flat roller like theother two. Then you would be able to tighten the female side of the ferrule it around, etc. Just like you would do to cut a pipe, but with three flatrollers it would crimp the female down, tightening it on the male side. Ithink it would work......Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: tightening ferrules I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a littleloose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when therod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to.The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialorprivileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 16 21:17:09 2002 g3H2H8415466 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:17:09 -0500 helo=default) id 16xf0K-0002vD-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:17:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Phillipson Red You may purchase Red Devil Lye at most large grocery stores. Be verycareful with this stuff. It isextremely caustic and will burn you like no acid will. The chemical name isSodium Hydroxide. Also,don't get carried away and buy lots of it. It's used in the manufacture ofmethamphetamine, and weall know how drug conscious everything is these days. Things have just gonenuts. I've twicewitnessed one of the local hardware stores refuse to sell a root-riddingproduct to people. Theysaid it was because it could be used in making meth (Then why even have it inthe store?) Bad thingwas the stuff was sulfuric acid, which can be bought at any auto parts store isn't used in the meth process, to my knowledge. That would be hydrochloricacid, or muriatic acid,which they readily sell in the hardware store -- by the gallon. It all makes somuch sense to me.(Incredulous mode off) M-D Bill,There were some old methods of darkening or changing the color ofcertainwoods. Of course bamboo and oak darken with the application of ammonia. Iknow that pine and cherry change color with the application of a lye solutionthat old timers got by collecting ashes from teir fireplace and making awatersolution of them. There are obviously other methods ,but you may try thelyeand see if it works. Lye can be procured from most hardware stores. It isusedas a drain cleaner. Try to get the pure stuff.Ed WILLIAM HARMS wrote: I was flipping throught my Micro-Mark catalogue, and notice a product used the product is, but it is apparently a chemical of some sort, rather than astain or dye. Anybody know about this? Additionally, I understand that in the past century, furniture makers alsoused a variety of products (chemical and/or natural) that were neitherstains nor dyes. Cheers, Bill from Dennishigham@cs.com Tue Apr 16 21:19:39 2002 g3H2Jc415750 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:19:39 - Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Bob,you might look at the Paul Young Para14. It's a 7'9", 5wt. Dennis Bob,you might look at the Paul Young Para14. It's a 7'9", 5wt. Dennis from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Apr 16 21:28:08 2002 g3H2S8416279 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:28:08 - for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:27:42 - Subject: Re: tightening ferrules The Okie/Arkie way to tighten the ferrule is to "peen" the female ferrule with a lead sinker. In a message dated 04/16/2002 2:43:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ChristopherO@epicimaging.com writes: Ray gould's first book has a short section on "snugging" female ferrules.He uses two cold rolled mild steel bars, with a hole drilled between them of the appropriate size, to uniformly squeeze the female around hercircumference.Its clearer if you see the picture and the text at the same time.Chris.-----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 2:20 PM Cc: RodmakersSubject: Re: tightening ferrulesGreg.I have done this on some older rods and the cheap ferrule I used on my first rod.Wrap a layer of masking tape on the ferrule. I used a large drill chuck andtightened it on the female, Rotated it 1/3 of a turn and did the same onceagain.. Keep doing this and fitting till you are satisfied with the fit.. Ihave to do this once in a while on the cheap ferrule I have on Rod # 1. Ishould get around to changing it some day.I am sure there are other ways.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.comGreg Kuntz wrote:I'm working on an old rod that the butt ferrules are a littleloose--they fit snugly, but I'm afraid that they will not hold when therod is cast--any ideas on how to snug up the female without removing it from the butt section? I'd like to avoid doing that if I don't have to.The ferrules are NS, if that helps.TIA. Greg----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (rly-zd04.mail.aol.com Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:43:47 2000 rly- Tue, 16 Apr 2002 17:43:38 -0400 g3GLhZ404023; g3GLhG403973 Received: by epic01.epic.local with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Message-ID: From: "Christopher A. Obuchowski, MD" flyfish@gbronline.com Cc: Rodmakers Subject: RE: tightening ferrulesDate: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:37:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)Content-Type: text/plain; Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from ddeloach@pcisys.net Tue Apr 16 21:29:25 2002 g3H2TP416469 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:29:25 - env- from (ddeloach@pcisys.net) Subject: Re: Seasons Tim, In the U.S. fishing seasons are governed by each individual state. On =several states in the Eastern US for example, April 1st is the =traditional opening day. Speaking for Colorado, there is no closed season on 95% of moving =waters. The 5% is certain highly pressured rivers where there is a =significant spawning run of browns, rainbows, or kokanee salmon--in =these cases the river is only closed for a month or two, then reopens. =Personally I wish we would have a closed season during all spawning =periods--makes more sense when one considers the future of our fish =populations. Of course mother nature completely ices over most rivers above about = Finally, and most important, the best dry fly fishing on Colorado =freestone rivers and creeks is from late June until Mid September Hope this helpsDon DColorado Springs Subject: Seasons Guys, In the UK we have a 'closed' season when fishing is not allowed on = This may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly =fishing in the US? If so is it nationwide or is it governed by each state? Any info gratefully accepted Thanks Tim. NormalDocumentEmail P.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm0pt; =mso- style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso- pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font- family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm0pt; =mso-pagination: widow- orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm0pt; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal- compose; mso-ansi-font-size:=10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso- hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font- family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} Tim, April 1st is the traditional opening day. Speaking for Colorado, there is no = 95% of moving waters. The 5% is certain highly pressured rivers where = significant spawning run of browns, rainbows, or kokanee salmon--in = the river is only closed for a month or two, then reopens. Personally I = would have a closed season during all spawning periods--makes more sense = one considers the future of our fish populations. Of course mother nature completelyices = Finally, and most important, the best = fishing on Colorado freestone rivers and creeks is from late June until = September Hope this helpsDon DColorado Springs ----- Original Message ----- Tim Watson Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Seasons Guys, UK we have a ‘closed’ season when fishing is not allowed = may be a silly question but is there a licensed season for fly fishing = US? state? info gratefully acceptedThanksTim. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 16 21:34:18 2002 g3H2YI416932 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:34:18 - helo=default) id 16xfGz-00035J-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:34:17 -0400 Subject: Re: tightening ferrules Nunley, have you been giving away our secret techniques? M-D The Okie/Arkie way to tighten the ferrule is to "peen" the female ferrule with a lead sinker. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 16 21:39:57 2002 g3H2du417305 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:39:56 - Subject: RE: Rodmaking heresy rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Darryl et al.,I, too, have been planing nodes and filing and planing enamel for years with no discernible weakness in the rods' actions. If you have good depth of power fibers there's no need to worry. Some people have put too much storein Ev Garrison's tome.Remember, nodes are a discontinuity in the strip's power fibers no matterhow much you straighten things.Just this old farmer's not so humble opinion,Hank. from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Apr 16 21:43:02 2002 g3H2h1417628 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:43:01 - Subject: Re: tightening ferrules I was trying to conceal the identity of my sources seeing as youse pro guys are so secretive about everything... [:)] Kyle In a message dated 04/16/2002 7:34:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: Nunley, have you been giving away our secret techniques?M-DFrom: The Okie/Arkie way to tighten the ferrule is to "peen" the femaleferrule with a lead sinker.----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return- Path: Received: from rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:34:50 -0500 rly- Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:34:33 -0400 g3H2YS416965; g3H2YI416932 Received: from 208-149-40-210.dial-up.ipa.net ([208.149.40.210] helo=default) Message-ID: From: "Jojo DeLancier" References: Subject: Re: tightening ferrulesDate: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:27:43 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 16 21:48:09 2002 g3H2m8418062 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:48:08 -0500 helo=default) id 16xfUH-00043A-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:48:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod restoration question I'll repeat this again, since we need to hear it now and then: The plastic guysare way ahead of uson guide placement. M-D Most interesting! I just finished a second tip for a rodI'd made a few years back. The "old" rod was a 7' with 8guides including stripper. The new tip, like the old one,was as close to specs as I could make it. However, I madethe new tip with an extra guide so that there were 9 guideson the old butt + new tip. Did the extra guide addstiffness or weight or nothing (as Garrison says)? Weightwas the dominant factor! The second tip moves more slowlythrough a wider arc. The difference is noticeable, but notdramatic. That experiment was suggested by a previous occasion. Ijointed up a partially-wrapped tip; it had all the guidesinstalled except for the lowest one. The wraps weresealed, but not varnished. When I gave that rod a flick(no line), the tip vibrated like a tuning fork. It had theworst recovery I have ever seen. The greatest vibrationwas in the tip; the area where the guide was missing wasnot 'noticeably' vibrating, although it must have been.Installing the last guide restored the recovery action tonormal. On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:06:05 -0400 Reed Currywrote: Tony,Those ol' intermediates were more useful than we thought. Have you evernoticed that most rods with intermediates had an increased frequency asthey approached the tip, this couldn't have been for cosmetic reasons,(and certainly not because of impending glue failure... an old wive'stale) but rather to modify the action. It makes you wonder when modernmakers might try using intermediates to add yet another arrow to theirquiver.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Tony Young wrote: There's no question the lateral fibers are sliding along one anothersome in compression some in expansion no matter where they are on therod continually altering so if you're constricting how much these fiberscan move with binding it has to stiffen the action to my way of thinking. Tony from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Tue Apr 16 21:51:17 2002 g3H2pH418389 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:51:17 - Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Para 14 is a nice rod, but casting it takes some getting used to. I =have one I made and it takes me about 1/2 hour to get used to it after =fishing something else. Not that I'm a good caster anyway.... Brian Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Para 14 is a nice rod, but casting it = anyway.... Brian ----- Original Message ----- Dennishigham@cs.com Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052Bob, = from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 16 21:51:35 2002 g3H2pY418442 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:51:34 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: tightening ferrules MD, Well, Maybe one or two, but I swear, I didn't tell them about the chickenblood in the varnish! Bob Nunley, have you been giving away our secret techniques? M-D From: The Okie/Arkie way to tighten the ferrule is to "peen" the female ferrulewith a lead sinker. from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 16 21:57:11 2002 g3H2vB419102 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:57:11 -0500 helo=default) id 16xfd6-0005oj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:57:09 -0400 Subject: Fw: cool Thought some of you might appreciate a rare occurrence in the heavens. =Be sure to click on the hot link.Sorry, Claude, if I beat you to this. M-D Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics PressReleaseRelease No.: 02- 10 Back to Planetary Alignment 2002 Website Caution--Planetary Traffic Jam Ahead!Cambridge, MA - Comet Hale-Bopp dazzled us for weeks.The Perseid meteor shower thrilled us for one night.But the world hasn't seen anything like the planetarytraffic jam that's going to occur the last week of Apriland the first two weeks in May! Inching across the sky like bumper-to-bumper commuterson their way to work, a rare planetary alignment willallow sky observers to see every planet in our solarsystem in a single evening! "There will be otheropportunities in the future to see the planets indifferent configurations," says Philip Sadler, Directorof the Science Education Department at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA) inCambridge, MA, " but it won't be anything like this forat least another 70 years. This is truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience." Even more amazing, two very special events will occurduring this planetary line-up. On May 10, the planetsMars and Venus will appear to pass so close to oneanother that, to the naked eye, the Roman God of Warand the Roman Goddess of Love will become one. Earlier, on May 5, something even more spectacular willhappen. The bright planets Mars, Saturn and Venus willgroup together to form a perfect equilateral trianglein the western sky. This dazzling configuration will bevisible almost everywhere on Earth. In the MiddleEast, this pyramid-shaped specter will hang directlyabove Bethlehem. Oddly enough, more than 2,000 years ago, this samegrouping of planets may have caught the attention ofthe Biblical Magi. On April 1, 2 B.C., the planetsMars, Saturn and Venus came together to form a perfectequilateral triangle over the city of Bethlehem. http://sao-www.harvard.edu/newtop/grandtour/index.html Thought some of youmight = link.Sorry, Claude, if I beat= this. M-D Harvard-Smithsonian Center PressReleaseRelease No.: 02-10For Release: April 3, = Planetary Alignment 2002 WebsiteCaution--Planetary Traffic Ahead!Cambridge, MA - Comet Hale-Bopp dazzled us for weeks.The= meteor shower thrilled us for one night.But the world hasn't seen = like the planetarytraffic jam that's going to occur the last week of = Apriland the first two weeks in May!Inching across the sky = bumper-to-bumper commuterson their way to work, a rare planetary = willallow sky observers to see every planet in our solarsystem = single evening! "There will be otheropportunities in the future to = planets indifferent configurations," says Philip Sadler, = Science Education Department at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center Astrophysics (CfA) inCambridge, MA, " but it won't be anything like = forat least another 70 years. This is truly a once-in-a-lifetime = occurduring this planetary line-up. On May 10, the planetsMars = will appear to pass so close to oneanother that, to the naked eye, = God of Warand the Roman Goddess of Love will become = May 5, something even more spectacular willhappen. The bright = trianglein the western sky. This dazzling configuration will = almost everywhere on Earth. In the MiddleEast, this pyramid-shaped = will hang directlyabove Bethlehem.Oddly enough, more than = years ago, this samegrouping of planets may have caught the = ofthe Biblical Magi. On April 1, 2 B.C., the planetsMars, Saturn = Venus came together to form a perfectequilateral triangle over the = Bethlehem.http://sa=o-www.harvard.edu/newtop/grandtour/index.html from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 16 21:58:06 2002 g3H2w5419293 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:58:06 - 16 Apr 2002 22:57:56 -0400 Subject: RE: Rod restoration question Yep. I stop before they get too close to the guide wraps. Usually get 7wraps between each. I think it looks nice, and it is easier than doing astraight seven wraps dividing each section into halves. I really starteddoing it because I was unsure what to do on the butt section between thestripper and signature wrap. 1" seemed like a good compromise. I like it,but must admit I have never built two identical rods to compare its effect.I like the action of the 6'6" Hardy rod from Bob Milwards book. That rodkicks butt. It worked nicley on a 209E I did for TU this spring as well.Bob Original Message----- Subject: RE: Rod restoration question Hi Bob - Do you mean that you make a mark midway between two adjacent guides,thengo 1" each way toward the guides from that center point? And then do thatbetween all the guides? Sorry, I'm slow.... : ) from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 16 22:08:11 2002 g3H38A419899 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:08:10 - 16 Apr 2002 23:08:04 -0400 Subject: RE: Rod restoration question That's something I hadn't thought about. Maybe because I never actuallycatch that many fish.Bob-----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 6:53 PM RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Rod restoration question Bob, Spacing the intermediates as you said, mid point and then every inch,sounds like a simple way to go about it. It would also make a easy way tomeasure the fish :>) I'm putting together a Trout/Light Salmon wet fly rodand think I'll give it a try.Thanks, Don from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 16 22:14:12 2002 g3H3EB420296 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:14:12 -0500 helo=default) id 16xftY-0002Ax-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:14:09 -0400 Subject: Re: tightening ferrules Well, it's a damn good thing!! At least you kept your mouth shut about that.Red Man Chewing Tobacconever entered the conversation, did it? I certainly hope not. M-D MD, Well, Maybe one or two, but I swear, I didn't tell them about the chickenblood in the varnish! Bob Nunley, have you been giving away our secret techniques? M-D From: The Okie/Arkie way to tighten the ferrule is to "peen" the female ferrulewith a lead sinker. from dannyt@frisurf.no Tue Apr 16 22:22:55 2002 g3H3Mr420768 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:22:54 - Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:22:46 +1200User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Mine Para15 based on the taper in the archive, cast a DT5 silkline smooth,so does Robert Milardo's..................danny Has anyone built the Cattanach rod 8052 from the taper archive? I wouldappreciate your impressions. Looking at the stress curves, it seems like alighter weight Para 15. (It has a 14 ferrule). This may be what I'mlooking for as I want a Para 15 type rod but not one that throws a WF 7line.ThanksBob A Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Mine Para15 based on the taper in the archive, cast a DT5 silkline smooth, =so does Robert Milardo's..................danny Has anyone builtthe Cattanac= your= g for as I want a Para 15 type rod but not one that throws a WF 7 line.ThanksBob A from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Apr 16 22:29:37 2002 g3H3Ta421155 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:29:36 -0500 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:29:22 -0400 Subject: ? Ammonia Toning I placed the blanks from a recently glued up rod in an ammonia steam bath about 5 days. I poured about 2 cups of blue print ammonia in the bottom ofa capped off 6ft section of black drain pipe. I suspended the blanks in the tube, sealed it off, and let it sit outside. When I pulled the blanks out today some glue lines showed up that weren't there before. Will the seams return to their prior "gapless state"? Also, the blanks now smell like horse piss. I understand one of Payne's trade marks is that his rods smelled of oranges, but a trade mark urine odor would be original but less than optimal. Will this post ammonia steaming odor dissipate, or is this just a pisser you have to deal with when ammonia toning? I like the color of the rod, but any insights you can share regarding odor removal or if the glue lines will go away would be appreciated. [:)] Thanks, Kyle from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 16 23:13:41 2002 g3H4De422419 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:13:40 -0500 (authenticated) Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:13:30 -0700 Subject: Re: ? Ammonia Toning Kyle, That is too funny.... Stop it! You're killin' me. Harry PS -- betcha the smell goes away when you varnish it. Can't say about thegluelines. KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I placed the blanks from a recently glued up rod in an ammonia steam bathforabout 5 days. I poured about 2 cups of blue print ammonia in the bottomof acapped off 6ft section of black drain pipe. I suspended the blanks in thetube, sealed it off, and let it sit outside. When I pulled the blanks outtoday some glue lines showed up that weren't there before. Will the seamsreturn to their prior "gapless state"? Also, the blanks now smell like horse piss. I understand one of Payne'strade marks is that his rods smelled of oranges, but a trade mark urineodorwould be original but less than optimal. Will this post ammonia steamingodor dissipate, or is this just a pisser you have to deal with when ammoniatoning? I like the color of the rod, but any insights you can share regarding odorremoval or if the glue lines will go away would be appreciated. [:)] Thanks, Kyle -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rextutor@yahoo.com Tue Apr 16 23:16:05 2002 g3H4G4422728 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:16:04 -0500 16 Apr 2002 21:16:04 PDT Subject: Re: ? Ammonia Toning Well the smell might wear off, but in any case, whatever you do, stay out of the stallion's pasture whenfishing the ranch. --- KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I placed the blanks from a recently glued up rod inan ammonia steam bath for about 5 days. I poured about 2 cups of blue printammonia in the bottom of a capped off 6ft section of black drain pipe. Isuspended the blanks in the tube, sealed it off, and let it sit outside. When Ipulled the blanks out today some glue lines showed up that weren't therebefore. Will the seams return to their prior "gapless state"? Also, the blanks now smell like horse piss. Iunderstand one of Payne's trade marks is that his rods smelled of oranges, buta trade mark urine odor would be original but less than optimal. Will thispost ammonia steaming odor dissipate, or is this just a pisser you have todeal with when ammonia toning? I like the color of the rod, but any insights youcan share regarding odor removal or if the glue lines will go away would beappreciated. [:)] Thanks, Kyle __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from homes-sold@attbi.com Tue Apr 16 23:34:55 2002 g3H4Yt423346 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:34:55 - ;Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:34:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Reel Chioce Thanks to all that replied on and off list. Think I'll go with the =consensus of the list, St Aiden.Thanks again, Don Subject: Reel Chioce All,I'm putting together a Trout/ Light Salmon rod. Thinking of using a =Hardy 3-3/4" St Aiden, 3-3/8" Zenith or 3-5/8" Marquis. Any words of =wisdom or suggestions would be deeply appreciated.TIA, Don Thanks to all that replied on and off = Aiden.Thanks again, Don From:Don = Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 4:15 PMSubject: Reel Chioce All,I'm putting together a Trout/ Light = Any words of wisdom or suggestions would be deeply =appreciated.TIA,Don from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Wed Apr 17 02:30:13 2002 g3H7UC426600 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:30:12 - for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 00:30:03 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Hi Gang Question about making an impregnation tank for blanks - tried severalrodtubes for making a tank, all works with the modified cap andintegrated valve, but seems that the cap isn`t really airtight. If i putthe pressure in, some air will squeeze out betwen cap and tube. I put antight o- ring around the caps thread, but the air flows out anyway. I read somewhere to put some vaseline to the o-ring, but not shure ithis works (do not have it tried again). Any help, ideas? Thanks Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed Apr 17 02:43:57 2002 g3H7hu426999 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:43:56 - Subject: Intro Standard Tool Good -My - Morning, Thankyou for everybodys help, I recieved several replys to my request service- It was my once a year measurement meltdown. Thankyou Stuart from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 17 02:54:35 2002 g3H7sX427355 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 02:54:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Fw: cool It's a case of the beeding obvious isn't it. The Magi were ancient rodmakers unhappy with the Pythagorean theory that the most pure plane geometric figure was a circle were looking for a sign as to the true perfect cross section for rodmaking.As they suspected, it's not in fact the circle most beloved of graphite and glass makers but is indeed the equilateral triangle 6 of which being needed to form the rod. Ancient graphite rodmakers were pretty annoyed about this and created the myth of the evil number of 666. This is meant to represent a complete bamboo rod made up of 6 splines by each of the three Magi hence 666.The evidence for this is displayed in the heavens from time to time and it's now our chance to see it for our selves. The truth is out there...... Tony Earlier, on May 5, something even more spectacular willhappen. The bright planets Mars, Saturn and Venus willgroup together to form a perfect equilateral trianglein the western sky. This dazzling configuration will bevisible almost everywhere on Earth. In the MiddleEast, this pyramid-shaped specter will hang directlyabove Bethlehem. Oddly enough, more than 2,000 years ago, this samegrouping of planets may have caught the attention ofthe Biblical Magi. On April 1, 2 B.C., the planetsMars, Saturn and Venus came together to form a perfectequilateral triangle over the city of Bethlehem. http://sao-www.harvard.edu/newtop/grandtour/index.html /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from mschaffer@mindspring.com Wed Apr 17 03:21:25 2002 g3H8LP427932 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:21:25 - helo=MikeShaffer) id 16xkgr-0001e3-00; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:21:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Fw: cool Tony,I just knew there was something important about this event, thanks forsetting me straight!8-) Mike from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 17 03:35:33 2002 g3H8ZV428306 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:35:31 - Subject: Re: Fw: cool It doesn't end there. In the plastic rodmakers endless quest for world domination they even created cute little saying that were pinched from famous authors and poets of the day such as Beware Greeks bearing giftswas Beware Magi bearing rods and other such taunts. Pretty hairy stuff really. :-)) Tony At 04:23 AM 4/17/02 -0400, Mike Shaffer wrote: Tony,I just knew there was something important about this event, thanks forsetting me straight!8-) Mike /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from michaelshaffer@earthlink.net Wed Apr 17 03:52:39 2002 g3H8qc428709 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 03:52:38 - helo=earthlink.net) id 16xlB7-0004Cl-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 01:52:38 -0700 Subject: Kyle's horsey rod Kyle,Just think of the benefits--- the game warden won't take your rod away,even if you were FF'ing without a license! That, and you should have LOTSof casting room on the river, especially down wind! 8-) --- Mike from julielamb@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 17 04:15:56 2002 g3H9Fs429233 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:15:54 -0500 Subject: OT: THANKS red wine & buffet Many thanks for your assistance received with ideas and web sites =suggested. Julie suggested. Julie from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Apr 17 04:36:01 2002 g3H9a0429689 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 04:36:00 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Nice block plane.... g3H9a1429690 on ebay, this might be the perfect tool for us handplanners.......? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1092845547 danny'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,....˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. Danny Twang94 Bayswater ave.North Shore, AucklandNew Zealand +64 9 445 8949 dannyt@frisurf.nodanny@twang.no from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 17 05:20:51 2002 g3HAKn400353 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 05:20:50 - Subject: Re: Nice block plane.... g3HAKp400354 This looks reasonably high angled. Anybody know the ins and outs of this plane? Like the angle of attack etc. Tony At 09:35 PM 4/17/02 +1200, Danny Twang wrote: on ebay, this might be the perfect tool for us handplanners.......? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1092845547 danny'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,....˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. Danny Twang94 Bayswater ave.North Shore, AucklandNew Zealand +64 9 445 8949 dannyt@frisurf.nodanny@twang.no /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Wed Apr 17 06:00:14 2002 g3HB0D400993 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:00:13 - Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:00:06 +1200User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express- Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Nice block plane.... Here You go mate.....but they are pricy though http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan4.htm This looks reasonably high angled. Anybody know the ins and outs of thisplane? Like the angle of attack etc. Tony from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Apr 17 06:00:31 2002 g3HB0T401012 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:00:29 - g3HB0Ln19957; Subject: Re: tightening ferrules I have only have to do this once, but had a toolmaker friend of mine make upa Ray Gould type ferrule "squeezer", and it works very nicely. I fiddledabout with it a bit before I used it on the loose ferrule that I wanted tofix, and I would have to warn anybody who is going to use one for the firsttime that this little gadget produces a HUGE amount of pressure, and youhave to be VERY careful not to overcorrect. Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Apr 17 06:10:08 2002 g3HBA7401591 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:10:07 - g3HB9un21903; Subject: Re: tightening ferrules You know, Bob, I recently tried to varnish a rod using old PU ("old" meaningbeen in the tube for a couple of years), and not only was there chickenblood in the varnish, but I think the feet, beak, and about half a kilo ofdroppings were in there as well! Message : PU does NOT last for ever in the tube. Changed the varnish, andthe finishes are lovely again. Cheers Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Wed Apr 17 06:17:06 2002 g3HBH4401926 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:17:04 - g3HBGxn23516; Subject: Re: Fw: cool Anthony Vincent Young! Are you smoking THAT stuff again? Stop it or you will go blind! : > Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 17 06:24:29 2002 g3HBOR402309 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:24:27 - Subject: Re: Nice block plane.... Thanks Danny. It's the angular details I'm more interested in than the plane. I'd make one anyhow so the price is irrelevant. Tony At 10:59 PM 4/17/02 +1200, Danny Twang wrote: Here You go mate.....but they are pricy though http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan4.htm This looks reasonably high angled. Anybody know the ins and outs of thisplane? Like the angle of attack etc. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 17 06:30:56 2002 g3HBUs402654 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:30:55 - Subject: Re: Fw: cool Is true, honest. [;-)] At 09:15 PM 4/17/02 +1000, Peter McKean wrote: Anthony Vincent Young! Are you smoking THAT stuff again? Stop it or you will go blind! : > Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html There was only ever one good man in Parlament and he was Guy Fawkes Patrick Moore /*************************************************************************/ from stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed Apr 17 06:36:28 2002 g3HBaR403003 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:36:27 - (149.225.134.119) Subject: Milward 8' 4 WF 2 Piece Hi Has anybody made the Milward 8' #4 listed on page 91 of his book? Any good? ThanksStuart from stuart.rod@gmx.de Wed Apr 17 06:39:14 2002 g3HBdC403274 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:39:13 - (149.225.134.119) Subject: Rodmaking heresy I've done this and the only difference that I noticed was that feelingthat I shouldn't tell anybody about it !! The rod does not seem to mindat all. Stuart from channer@frontier.net Wed Apr 17 06:49:54 2002 g3HBns403718 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:49:54 -0500 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 05:49:55 -0600 Subject: Re: ? Ammonia Toning Kyle;The smell will dissipate, just leave the blank somehwere it can breath appear, they don't seem to go away. Consider yourself lucky, I don'tseem to be able to see them until I'm sanding the first coat of varnish.john KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I placed the blanks from a recently glued up rod in an ammonia steam bathforabout 5 days. I poured about 2 cups of blue print ammonia in the bottomof acapped off 6ft section of black drain pipe. I suspended the blanks in thetube, sealed it off, and let it sit outside. When I pulled the blanks outtoday some glue lines showed up that weren't there before. Will the seamsreturn to their prior "gapless state"? Also, the blanks now smell like horse piss. I understand one of Payne'strade marks is that his rods smelled of oranges, but a trade mark urineodorwould be original but less than optimal. Will this post ammonia steamingodor dissipate, or is this just a pisser you have to deal with when ammoniatoning? I like the color of the rod, but any insights you can share regarding odorremoval or if the glue lines will go away would be appreciated. [:)] Thanks, Kyle from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Apr 17 06:59:45 2002 g3HBxi404182 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:59:44 - Subject: Re: Fw: cool In a message dated 4/17/02 6:17:36 AM Central Daylight Time, petermckean@netspace.net.au writes: Now wait a minute! THAT isn't what makes you go blind, is it? My glasses need cleaning anyway! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from jojo@ipa.net Wed Apr 17 07:34:04 2002 g3HCY4404974 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:34:04 -0500 helo=default) id 16xodL-00052A-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:34:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Stefan, I used galvanized 2" pipe, threaded on both ends and used a cap on the topend. Inside the cap Imade a thick polyurethane washer so that the end of the pipe would sealagainst it. Also, I usedTeflon pipe tape on the threads, and really cranked down on the cap with apipe wrench, getting itall very tight. It takes some doing, but I got it to where it won't leak off thepressure. M-D Hi Gang Question about making an impregnation tank for blanks - tried severalrodtubes for making a tank, all works with the modified cap andintegrated valve, but seems that the cap isn`t really airtight. If i putthe pressure in, some air will squeeze out betwen cap and tube. I put antight o- ring around the caps thread, but the air flows out anyway. I read somewhere to put some vaseline to the o-ring, but not shure ithis works (do not have it tried again). Any help, ideas? Thanks Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Wed Apr 17 07:47:32 2002 g3HClV405606 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:47:32 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Re: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Dear Jojo Thanks very much - isn`t there a problem with the teflon pipe tape and thepu-washer cause i think tomake also impregnation by an acetone- plexiglass solution? SincerlyStefan Jojo DeLancier schrieb: Stefan, I used galvanized 2" pipe, threaded on both ends and used a cap on the topend. Inside the cap Imade a thick polyurethane washer so that the end of the pipe would sealagainst it. Also, I usedTeflon pipe tape on the threads, and really cranked down on the cap with apipe wrench, getting itall very tight. It takes some doing, but I got it to where it won't leak off thepressure. M-D From: "Stefan Grau" Hi Gang Question about making an impregnation tank for blanks - tried severalrodtubes for making a tank, all works with the modified cap andintegrated valve, but seems that the cap isn`t really airtight. If i putthe pressure in, some air will squeeze out betwen cap and tube. I put antight o- ring around the caps thread, but the air flows out anyway. I read somewhere to put some vaseline to the o-ring, but not shure ithis works (do not have it tried again). Any help, ideas? Thanks Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from beadman@mac.com Wed Apr 17 07:48:19 2002 g3HCmI405793 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:48:18 - for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:48:00 - Subject: Re: Fw: cool 1193074800==_ma============" --============_-1193074800==_ma============ No problem - they haven't announced this one here at NASA yet (that I know of) - maybe because we didn't make any of the items in the "traffic jam"... Take a look at Jupiter from a really dark area (no street lighting nearby...) using a pair of ordinary binoculars, and you should be able to see at least three of Jupiter's moons. By the way, for those of you who play the occasional Scrabble game, here's a word for you "SYZYGY" - an occurrence of the Sun, Moon, and Earth in a line (otherwise known as an eclipse). Claude At 9:50 PM -0500 on 4/16/02, Jojo DeLancier wrote about Fw: cool Thought some of you might appreciate a rare occurrence in the heavens. Be sure to click on the hot link.Sorry, Claude, if I beat you to this. M-D Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics PressReleaseRelease No.: 02- 10 Back to Planetary Alignment 2002 Website Caution--Planetary Traffic Jam Ahead!Cambridge, MA - Comet Hale-Bopp dazzled us for weeks.The Perseid meteor shower thrilled us for one night.But the world hasn't seen anything like the planetarytraffic jam that's going to occur the last week of Apriland the first two weeks in May! --============_-1193074800==_ma============ Re: Fw: coolNo problem - they haven't announced this one here at NASA yet(that I know of) - maybe because we didn't make any of the items in from a really dark area (no street lighting nearby...) using a pairof ordinary binoculars, and you should be able to see at least three occasional Scrabble game, here's a word for you "SYZYGY" -an occurrence of the Sun, Moon, and Earth in a line (otherwise knownas an eclipse). Claude At 9:50 PM -0500 on 4/16/02, Jojo DeLancier wrote about Fw: cool Thought some of you might appreciatea rare occurrence in the heavens. Be sure to click on the hotlink.Sorry, Claude, if I beat you tothis. M-D Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics PressReleaseRelease No.: 02- 10 Back to Planetary Alignment 2002 Website Caution--Planetary Traffic Jam Ahead!Cambridge, MA - Comet Hale-Bopp dazzled us for weeks.The Perseid meteor shower thrilled us for one night.But the world hasn't seen anything like the planetarytraffic jam that's going to occur the last week of Apriland the first two weeks in May! --============_-1193074800==_ma============-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 17 07:53:57 2002 g3HCrv406340 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:53:57 - for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:53:27 - Subject: Fwd: TOUCHE...... http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ MAILINXA14-0409231655; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 23:16:55 -0500 0409231631; Tue, 09 Apr 2002 23:16:31 2000 Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:16:31 -0700 Wed, 10 Apr 2002 03:16:29 GMT faithofourfathers@hotmail.com, Grhghlndr@aol.com,howztrix36@aol.com,jcs@nextcent.com, slute@wildmail.com,universalfellowship@hotmail.comSubject: Fwd: TOUCHE...... FILETIME=[1C786150:01C1E03E] Fhanegraaf@aol.com, bp40bp@aol.com, Blunt@mail.house.gov,bgrueneberg@progressivetravel.org, fizzacist@hotmail.com,bvandeloo@hotmail.com, foschr@superspec.com, Chuck@rconnect.com,dale@harterhouse.com, beattie@antigopro.net, FROGGIE2385@aol.com,jackiev@means.net, sgf@tds.net, jestiene@hotmail.com,kobuk7@hotmail.com, GramJulie@aol.com, kayle.marquardt@twcable.com,roofbuster@g2a.net, khayden@wi.rr.com, MARKSALZER@prodigy.net,merty12@hotmail.com, MACABRE@uswest.net, myturn2go@prodigy.net,PJHCRAIN@HOTMAIL.COM, RWilkin619@aol.com, rhedrick10@hotmail.com,babyangel4u85@aol.com, sdrtrans@nconnect.net, lil_2cute4u@hotmail.com,tamcan@alltel.net, tcmeyer@netnet.net, tnilles3@juno.com,SampsonG1@email.msn.com, tykea@alltel.net, VBEquine@aol.com morning and want for just "$10?" bill. end the then had how each them asked. sneered, walked then they mail sharing. will people Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from jojo@ipa.net Wed Apr 17 07:56:41 2002 g3HCuf406672 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:56:41 -0500 helo=default) id 16xozH-000810-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:56:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Stefan, I use a xylene solvated polyurethane as the impregnating medium, and haveno problems. Thereshouldn't be any problem with either the tape or the big washer in theacetone. You can always dropsmall pieces of each into acetone, and see if there is any adverse effect. M-D Dear Jojo Thanks very much - isn`t there a problem with the teflon pipe tape and thepu-washer cause i thinktomake also impregnation by an acetone-plexiglass solution? SincerlyStefan Jojo DeLancier schrieb: Stefan, I used galvanized 2" pipe, threaded on both ends and used a cap on the topend. Inside the cap Imade a thick polyurethane washer so that the end of the pipe would sealagainst it. Also, I usedTeflon pipe tape on the threads, and really cranked down on the cap with apipe wrench, getting itall very tight. It takes some doing, but I got it to where it won't leak off thepressure. M-D From: "Stefan Grau" Hi Gang Question about making an impregnation tank for blanks - tried severalrodtubes for making a tank, all works with the modified cap andintegrated valve, but seems that the cap isn`t really airtight. If i putthe pressure in, some air will squeeze out betwen cap and tube. I put antight o- ring around the caps thread, but the air flows out anyway. I read somewhere to put some vaseline to the o-ring, but not shure ithis works (do not have it tried again). Any help, ideas? Thanks Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Wed Apr 17 08:26:46 2002 g3HDQj408349 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:26:45 - for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:26:39 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Pezon et Michel - New and alive Have you seen the (new) website from Pezon & Michel?http://www.pezonetmichel.com Interesting to readon the website, that Pezon is located in the US now, i heard the owneris a french and ex-member of Pezon, living and making rods in France(for people who speaks french here the article:http://echosmouche.free.fr/em0900_001.htm). Not in Amboise cause theold fabric was closed, bit in the region named "Provence".Some Swiss rodmakers like me was buying some old stock of Pezons Bambooone year ago before the fabric was closed definitive. Te beveler/millwas standing also there, rotten unfortunately (or look as rotten for aman not very common in machines like me). Oh yes - the bamboo was badand very wet, but a cheap choice for some beginners, i was happy totest-buy only 20 half culms. Sincery Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from kenealyj@gwi.net Wed Apr 17 08:26:59 2002 g3HDQw408364 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:26:58 - Subject: Re: tightening ferrules That's nothin'. Up here in Maine, we use Moose turds in the glue as a"bonding agent." John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tightening ferrules MD, Well, Maybe one or two, but I swear, I didn't tell them about the chickenblood in the varnish! Bob Nunley, have you been giving away our secret techniques? M-D From: The Okie/Arkie way to tighten the ferrule is to "peen" the female ferrule with a lead sinker. from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Apr 17 08:45:08 2002 g3HDj8409709 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:45:08 -0500 IAA28225; GAA11171; g3HDj2018045; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:45:01 -0700 Rodmakers discussion group Subject: RE: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank be veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery careful with the xylene, major major carcinogen Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Stefan, I use a xylene solvated polyurethane as the impregnating medium, and havenoproblems. Thereshouldn't be any problem with either the tape or the big washer in theacetone. You can always dropsmall pieces of each into acetone, and see if there is any adverse effect. M-D Dear Jojo Thanks very much - isn`t there a problem with the teflon pipe tape and thepu-washer cause i thinktomake also impregnation by an acetone-plexiglass solution? SincerlyStefan Jojo DeLancier schrieb: Stefan, I used galvanized 2" pipe, threaded on both ends and used a cap on the top end. Inside the cap I made a thick polyurethane washer so that the end of the pipe would seal against it. Also, I used Teflon pipe tape on the threads, and really cranked down on the cap with a pipe wrench, getting it all very tight. It takes some doing, but I got it to where it won't leak off the pressure. M-D From: "Stefan Grau" Hi Gang Question about making an impregnation tank for blanks - tried severalrodtubes for making a tank, all works with the modified cap andintegrated valve, but seems that the cap isn`t really airtight. If i putthe pressure in, some air will squeeze out betwen cap and tube. I put antight o- ring around the caps thread, but the air flows out anyway. I read somewhere to put some vaseline to the o-ring, but not shure ithis works (do not have it tried again). Any help, ideas? Thanks Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from flytyr@southshore.com Wed Apr 17 08:52:10 2002 g3HDq9410228 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:52:09 -0500 g3HDq7O26312; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:52:07 -0500 Subject: Re: ? Ammonia Toning Kyle,I made a blank for a friend and he did the same thing you did to darken it.When the blank was picked up he commented on how nice it was and thatthere wereno glue lines. When I saw the finished rod, (he did a nice job), I noticedseveral brown glue lines.He said they appeared after he did the Ammonia treatment on it.He has been using the rod for over two years with no ill effect on the rod.It really bothered me though.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: I placed the blanks from a recently glued up rod in an ammonia steam bathforabout 5 days. I poured about 2 cups of blue print ammonia in the bottomof acapped off 6ft section of black drain pipe. I suspended the blanks in thetube, sealed it off, and let it sit outside. When I pulled the blanks outtoday some glue lines showed up that weren't there before. Will the seamsreturn to their prior "gapless state"? Also, the blanks now smell like horse piss. I understand one of Payne'strade marks is that his rods smelled of oranges, but a trade mark urineodorwould be original but less than optimal. Will this post ammonia steamingodor dissipate, or is this just a pisser you have to deal with when ammoniatoning? I like the color of the rod, but any insights you can share regarding odorremoval or if the glue lines will go away would be appreciated. [:)] Thanks, Kyle from jojo@ipa.net Wed Apr 17 08:52:18 2002 g3HDqH410245 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 08:52:17 -0500 helo=default) id 16xpr3-0001of-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:52:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Always a good idea to point out the dangers of using organic solvents. Don't wear it, don't breathe it, don't eat it. M-D be veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery careful with the xylene, major major carcinogen Stefan, I use a xylene solvated polyurethane as the impregnating medium, . . . from PABIX@aol.com Wed Apr 17 09:24:46 2002 g3HEOj412687 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:24:45 -0500 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:24:25 -0400 Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:24:25 -0500 Subject: Heat and Humidity Here in the mid Atlantic states (MD, PA, DE) we are undergoing hotJuly/August conditions in April. It leads me to question if rodmakers suspendefforts during these times fearing moisture rentry for unfinished blanks ordo you just store them in tubes with dessicant when not working on the rodsand continue despite the hot / humid conditions. -- Bill Bixler > from sfario@hotmail.com Wed Apr 17 09:28:13 2002 Received: g3HESD413230 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 Subject: Cattanach 8052 taper Date: Wed, X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 sfario@hotmail.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This to all of you that responded with advice on the 8052 taper. I = have fishedthe Bob Lancaster "Savage River" at 7' 2" wt4 and an older = (1867) PaulYoung Perfectionist. I have wanted an 8 ft rod like the = Para 15 but wassomewhat put off while researching the Para 15 comments = in the old listarchives. Many wrote that they thought the PHY Para 15 = in the taperarchives was a 6 weight or even a 7 weight rod. It is not = my goal to get a 6or 7 weight rod but one that takes a WF5 or even a = DT4 weight. I hadprinted out the taper and stress curves of the Para = 15 and the Cattanach8052 and a bunch of other rods from the taper = archives--while holding the8052 and the Para 15 to the light, the = stress curves were an almost actual Para 15 that had been lightened = somewhat using the hexrodprogram. Glad to hear, Jerry, that you have = had good results with thetaper. New question---I fished a PHY Midge for many years with the 0.0625 =tip---the Cattanach' 6342 and 6332 both have a 0.070 tip. As I have = nevercast one, am I wrong in thinking the 0.070 tip would be a little = stiff,particularly for the 6332? Thanks in advance Bob A ------ Thanks to all of New question---I fished a PHY Midge for 6332? Thanks inadvance BobA ------ Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Wed Apr 17 09:46:03 2002 Received: from g3HEk3414711 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) by Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 17 Apr 200209:27:47 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Miller, Troy" Subject: RE: Rod restoration question Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:44:05 - owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Will you bring it to Conclave?I love rods that people say "kicks butt". Gets me all lathered up.... : ) Regards-- TAM -----Original Message----- From: Bob Maulucci rod from Bob Milwards book. That rod kicks butt. It worked nicley on a 209E Idid for TU this spring as well. Bob > from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com WedApr 17 10:22:01 2002 Received: from romulus.bhi-net.com (romulus.bhi- (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) by Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 17 Apr 200210:05:11 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Miller, Troy" Subject: RE: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Take it to a machine shop, have them cut you a 6P ACME thread on it, leavean extended nose of smaller OD in front of the threads, maybe .500" long.Cut a groove in the pin nose, sized for a 200 series o-ring. Then have themmake you a mating cap, that matches the thread, and has a seal surfacethat the pin nose o-ring will seal against. Tell them you want about .015 or.020 squeeze on the o-ring when the thread is made up. The sealing surfaceinside the box (cap) should have a 32RMS or better finish. If they make thebox sealing surface ID no more than .005" larger than the pin nose OD at theo-ring groove, then you would not need any backup rings for the o- rings. Thiswill hold 10,000 psi gas pressure, or full vacuum, day in and day out. And youwon't even need a pipe wrench to tighten it, since the threads are notsealing. Weld a cap on the bottom end of the tube. Regards -- TAM --- -- Re: Help - Airtight Impregnation Tank Stefan, I used galvanized 2" pipe,threaded on both ends and used a cap on the top end. Inside the cap I made athick polyurethane washer so that the end of the pipe would seal against it.Also, I used Teflon pipe tape on the threads, and really cranked down on thecap with a pipe wrench, getting it all very tight. It takes some doing, but I gotit to where it won't leak off the pressure. M-D From: "Stefan Grau"Hi Gang Question about making animpregnation tank for blanks - tried several rodtubes for making a tank, allworks with the modified cap and integrated valve, but seems that the capisn`t really airtight. If i put the pressure in, some air will squeeze out betwencap and tube. I put an tight o- ring around the caps thread, but the air flowsout anyway. I read somewhere to put some vaseline to the o-ring, but notshure i this works (do not have it tried again). Any help, ideas? ThanksStefan -- ************************************** Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AG Laenggass-Strasse 76 CH-3000 Bern 9 Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00 Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 4590 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.info URL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** > from fbcwin@3g.quik.com WedApr 17 11:14:04 2002 Received: from q4.quik.com (q4.quik.com Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:11:20 -0500 From: Harry Boyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Heat and Humidity References:Content-Type: text/plain; fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Bill,I'm in Louisiana, and if I suspended rodmaking operations during hot andhumid conditions, well, I wouldn't build many rods. I do use common sense.After heat treating, my cane is stored with silica gel dessicant, though I'mnot sure that's necessary given Milward's findings on permanent changes.Where I do get really funny with moisture is after heat-setting the epoxy.Into the dessicant straight out of the oven. Then, soon as I get the tiny bitof excess glue sanded away, I slather with tung oil, and wipe off excess after30 minutes or so. I know tung oil doesn't prevent moisture re- absorption, butI'd rather the rod section soak up tung oil than water. from that point tillafter getting the first coat of varnish, I only have one section at a time outin the tropical rain forest environment of my shop. I thinking of buying one ofthe "Golden rod" dehumidifiers for my drying chamber, and storing in-progress rods there. Also, I run the window unit A/C in the shop when it'shot. That takes a lot of moisture out of the air. Without the air conditionedshop, I couldn't stand it out there about 7-8 months each year. Hope thishelps, Harry PABIX@aol.com wrote: Here in the mid Atlantic states (MD, PA, DE) we are undergoing hotJuly/August conditions in April. It leads me to question if rodmakers suspendefforts during these times fearing moisture rentry for unfinished blanks ordo you just store them in tubes with dessicant when not working on the rodsand continue despite the hot / humid conditions. --Bill Bixler --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from jvswan@earthlink.net Wed Apr 17 11:23:13 2002 g3HGNC421075 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:23:12 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429 Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive I think that the contact address for Pezon et Michel in the US is only acontact. In the "Legendary Rods" link it says the factory is in St- Brieuc,which is on the coast in the West of France, at the south end of the EnglishChannel (almost directly south of Plymouth, England). What is interestingto me is that Francois Hue, the guy who apparently owns or runs Pezon now,doesn't claim to be an associate of the original company. All he said inthe French article is that he was passionate about fly fishing and believedthat anglers still wanted nice stuff, so they (apparently more than himself)decided to take up or invest in the "challenge." Sounds a little like whathappened to Powell in the US. So, having never cast one of their rods, what are they like? I see themquite often on Ebay. Jason On 4/17/02 7:34 AM, "Stefan Grau" wrote: Have you seen the (new) website from Pezon & Michel?http://www.pezonetmichel.com Interesting to readon the website, that Pezon is located in the US now, i heard the owneris a french and ex-member of Pezon, living and making rods in France(for people who speaks french here the article:http://echosmouche.free.fr/em0900_001.htm). Not in Amboise cause theold fabric was closed, bit in the region named "Provence".Some Swiss rodmakers like me was buying some old stock of PezonsBambooone year ago before the fabric was closed definitive. Te beveler/millwas standing also there, rotten unfortunately (or look as rotten for aman not very common in machines like me). Oh yes - the bamboo was badand very wet, but a cheap choice for some beginners, i was happy totest-buy only 20 half culms. Sincery Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from dpvbkjs@tdstelme.net Wed Apr 17 13:53:02 2002 g3HIr2428553 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 13:53:02 -0500 Subject: 3-piece node stagger Listers, I've only made a couple of three-piece rods, but it seems like there's no wayto make one with the 2x2x2 staggering and still get at least five inches fromthe tip to first node, and from last node to ferrule. Am I stuck with 3x3 staggering, or am I brain-dead today? I'm playing aroundwith internodal spacing from 12 to 18 inches in the culm. David from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Apr 17 14:34:26 2002 g3HJYP402055 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:34:25 - MAA27451 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:32:54 - MAA03661 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:34:24 - g3HJYM023245 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:34:22 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:30:24 -0700 Subject: corbette lake martin jensen, I don't have your new email, get in touch with me for infoabout our upcoming trip to corbette lake. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Wed Apr 17 14:53:10 2002 g3HJr9405188 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 14:53:09 -0500 pri.pacificare.com 2002 19:57:37 UT (Tumbleweed ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:52:05 -0700 Subject: RE: 3-piece node stagger Can you place a node inside your ferrule? That won't hurt anything. And whyno nodes 5 inches from the ferrule? Why not 4 inches, why not 3 inches? What would happen if there was a node right under the ferrule wrap?Wouldn'tthe ferrule and the wrap "protect" the node? Who said nodes would break ifthey are too close to the ferrule? I've never seen it happen, and since theferrule is stiffer (and stronger in my opinion), wouldn't that prevent thedreaded casting fracture?.....Darryl Hayashida -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 11:53 AM Subject: 3-piece node stagger Listers, I've only made a couple of three-piece rods, but it seems like there's noway to make one with the 2x2x2 staggering and still get at least fiveinches from the tip to first node, and from last node to ferrule. Am I stuck with 3x3 staggering, or am I brain-dead today? I'm playingaround with internodal spacing from 12 to 18 inches in the culm. David This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from harms1@pa.net Wed Apr 17 15:12:07 2002 g3HKC6408636 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:12:06 -0500 Subject: Re: 3-piece node stagger David, Try the spiral technique. You can space the nodes so that each "set" of sixnodes makes one complete spiral, still leaving you several inches betweenthe next set--especially easy to arrange if you use strips taken from theupper section of a culm ,where the inter-nodal areas are greatest. This arrangement would have slightly tighter spacing between each of thenodes, but I have found that it works just fine, since every node iscountered by the fibers of five "solid" strips. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: 3-piece node stagger Listers, I've only made a couple of three-piece rods, but it seems like there's no way to make one with the 2x2x2 staggering and still get at least five inches from the tip to first node, and from last node to ferrule. Am I stuck with 3x3 staggering, or am I brain-dead today? I'm playing around with internodal spacing from 12 to 18 inches in the culm. David from Jerry.Ballard@erdc.usace.army.mil Wed Apr 17 15:24:41 2002 g3HKOe410932 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:24:40 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:24:30 -0500 Subject: RE: Heat and Humidity Bill, Harry's right. If rodmakers in the southern US stopped during humidconditions, that would leave us about 1-2 months a year. This past year Ithink it would have only been during November. A/C is a life saver. I keepmy sections in the house (closet actually) and only bring them out to workon one piece at a time. -Jerry (lurking around in digest mode) from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Apr 17 17:23:08 2002 g3HMN7417474 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:23:07 - Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 spam. I just finished this rod and gave it a try on the San Juan. I was =looking for a fairly fast 5 wt. @ 8' for throwing nymph rigs. This rod =does it pretty darned well. I haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell =you much there. When I first finished this rod, I thought it was going =to be a bit of a wrist buster, but I was very pleased that it cast =easily and is not tiresome at all. In fact, I really like it as a good =all around rod. I took one rainbow of probably over 5 pounds and turned = Now, I have to say, I'm a bit of a speed freak. I like to throw weight =and I like to do it out aways for long, drag-free drifts. I'm now =looking at A.J. Thramer's rod in the Rodmaker's archive. I think that =taper is a much more radical taper - way into fast. I might suggest =that, if you're looking for fast, go through all of the 8' 5 wts and =average their measurement at each station. Comes out a pretty straight = Anyway, I like Wayne's taper. It's nice. I did heat treat up to 375 =degrees for about 20 minutes. Just enough to get off blonde and into = Subject: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Has anyone built the Cattanach rod 8052 from the taper archive? I =would appreciate your impressions. Looking at the stress curves, it =seems like a lighter weight Para 15. (It has a 14 ferrule). This may =be what I'm looking for as I want a Para 15 type rod but not one that =throws a WF 7 line.ThanksBob A Bob, I just finished this rod and gave it a = rigs. This rod does it pretty darned well. I haven't tried dries yet, so = tell you much there. When I first finished this rod, I thought it was = be a bit of a wrist buster, but I was very pleased that it cast easily = not tiresome at all. In fact, I really like it as a good all around rod. = one rainbow of probably over 5 pounds and turned him inside out. Rod's = plenty of power. Now, I have to say, I'm a bit of a = drag-free drifts. I'm now looking at A.J. Thramer's rod in the = archive. I think that taper is a much more radical taper - way into = might suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go through all of the = wts and average their measurement at each station. Comes out a pretty = Anyway, I like Wayne's taper. It's = treat up to 375 degrees for about 20 minutes. Just enough to get off = into light brown. See you. Jim ----- Original Message ----- Amundson Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 = PMSubject: Cattanach Rod taper =8052 Has anyone built the Cattanach rod = rod but not one that throws a WF 7 line.ThanksBob =A from JAQFOLL@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 17 17:31:03 2002 g3HMV3417977 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:31:03 -0500 ;Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:30:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Heat and Humidity No but I have my de-humidifiers cranked up and really taking out most of themoisture.Jack ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Heat and Humidity Here in the mid Atlantic states (MD, PA, DE) we are undergoing hot July/August conditions in April. It leads me to question if rodmakerssuspend efforts during these times fearing moisture rentry for unfinishedblanks or do you just store them in tubes with dessicant when not working onthe rods and continue despite the hot / humid conditions. --Bill Bixler from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Wed Apr 17 18:54:01 2002 g3HNs1420557 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:54:01 - (authenticated) Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:53:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 --------------048FD356833C49ED06A8E1EA Jim, While I would definitely agree that Wayne's conversionof the para-15 to a five weight (8052) is a wonderful rod,you're not characterizing it as fast, are you? There'slittle question that it falls into the parabolic categorymuch more readily that the fast one. I think I understandyou correctly in saying that you're looking for something alittle faster. If so, I might well suggest the Mystery Rod fromGrayrock posted on the Rodmakers page several years ago. Itis a very fast and powerful 5 weight with light, delicatetips which can handle the light tippets required by streamssuch as the San Juan. Just checking,Harry Jim & Sally Freeman wrote: I just finished this rod and gave it a try on the SanJuan. I was looking for a fairly fast 5 wt. @ 8' forthrowing nymph rigs. This rod does it pretty darned well.I haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell you much there.When I first finished this rod, I thought it was going tobe a bit of a wrist buster, but I was very pleased that itcast easily and is not tiresome at all. In fact, I reallylike it as a good all around rod. I took one rainbow ofprobably over 5 pounds and turned him inside out. Rod'sgot plenty of power. Now, I have to say, I'm a bit of aspeed freak. I like to throw weight and I like to do itout aways for long, drag-free drifts. I'm now looking atA.J. Thramer's rod in the Rodmaker's archive. I think thattaper is a much more radical taper - way into fast. Imight suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go throughall of the 8' 5 wts and average their measurement at eachstation. Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'mcurious about. Stress curve doesn't look too badeither. Anyway, I like Wayne's taper. It's nice. I didheat treat up to 375 degrees for about 20 minutes. Justenough to get off blonde and into light brown. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --------------048FD356833C49ED06A8E1EA Jim, conversion it falls into the parabolic category much more readily that the fast I think I understand you correctly in saying that you're looking for somethinga little faster. very fast and powerful 5 weight with light, delicate tips which can handlethe light tippets required by streams such as the San Juan. Jim & Sally Freeman wrote:I just finishedthis rod and gave it a try on the San Juan. I was looking for a fairly darned well. I haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell you much there.When I first finished this rod, I thought it was going to be a bit of awrist buster, but I was very pleased that it cast easily and is not tiresomeat all. In fact, I really like it as a good all around rod. I took onerainbow of probably over 5 pounds and turned him inside out. Rod's got I have to say, I'm a bit of a speed freak. I like to throw weight and Ilike to do it out aways for long, drag-free drifts. I'm now looking atA.J. Thramer's rod in the Rodmaker's archive. I think that taper is a muchmore radical taper - way into fast. I might suggest that, if you're looking measurementat each station. Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'm curious about. I like Wayne's taper. It's nice. I did heat treat up to 375 degrees forabout 20 minutes. Just enough to get off blonde and into lightbrown. --Harry Boyd --------------048FD356833C49ED06A8E1EA-- from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Apr 17 19:28:52 2002 g3I0Sp421417 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:28:51 - for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:28:28 - Subject: Re: Kyle's horsey rod g3I0Sp421420 If youse guys are trying to piss me off, well, its working. [:)] I thought I had come up with a slick new model number for this rod, the 194a, but now I may just call this model the Stallion. Kyle In a message dated Wed, 17 Apr 2002 4:53:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Mike Shaffer" writes: Kyle,Just think of the benefits--- the game warden won't take your rod away,even if you were FF'ing without a license! That, and you should have LOTSof casting room on the river, especially down wind! 8-) --- Mike from jojo@ipa.net Wed Apr 17 19:41:57 2002 g3I0fv421994 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:41:57 -0500 helo=default) id 16xzzl-0004PE-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:41:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Kyle's horsey rod Nah, Kyle, just call it "The Stud". M-D If youse guys are trying to piss me off, well, its working. [:)] I thought I had come up with a slick new model number for this rod, the 194a, but now I may just call this model the Stallion. Kyle In a message dated Wed, 17 Apr 2002 4:53:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Mike Shaffer" writes: Kyle,Just think of the benefits--- the game warden won't take your rod away,even if you were FF'ing without a license! That, and you should have LOTSof casting room on the river, especially down wind! 8-) --- Mike from rcurry@ttlc.net Wed Apr 17 19:47:08 2002 g3I0l7422307 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:47:07 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Kyle's horsey rod Kyle, Don't worry about the odor. Just wear an old Harris Tweedjacket...these were traditionally soaked in stale human urine during the "waulking" process. No-one will know whether the odor is emanating from your fashion wear, or your cane rod.Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: If youse guys are trying to piss me off, well, its working. [:)] I thought I had come up with a slick new model number for this rod, the 194a, but nowI may just call this model the Stallion.Kyle from cristantr@rogers.com Wed Apr 17 19:59:07 2002 g3I0x7422805 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 19:59:07 - (InterMail vM.5.01.04.13 201-253-122-122-113-20020313) with Subject: Oven mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.112.204.167] using IDat Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:58:55 -0400 Hello List, I need some help. I am in the process of building the duct =work oven with the mica strip heater. Now not being good at all with =electrical wires and the such, I was wondering if there is a site that =gives detailed instruction on wiring strip heaters or can anyone give =advice on the process, if it is a simple one. I have checked the tips =site and have not found wiring instructions. I have also checked the =list's archives and there too have been unsuccessful. Any help would be =greatly appreciated. Robert the process of building the duct work oven with the mica strip = if there is a site that gives detailed instruction on wiring strip = would be greatly appreciated. Robert from jfreeman@cyberport.com Wed Apr 17 20:01:12 2002 g3I11B423049 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:01:11 - Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 spam. Maybe I should have used "strong". John Channer and I were fighting a =heavy wind that afternoon, and I was still able to get a fairly long =line out. However, I would not say this is the perfect rod for the San =Juan, and I'm still looking. Fast really is what's needed. Yea, yea, I =know John - if I'd only put up the nymphs..... I'll look at the Mystery taper. Sounds exactly like what I'm looking = Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 While I would definitely agree that Wayne's conversion of the =para-15 to a five weight (8052) is a wonderful rod, you're not =characterizing it as fast, are you? There's little question that it =falls into the parabolic category much more readily that the fast one. =I think I understand you correctly in saying that you're looking for = If so, I might well suggest the Mystery Rod from Grayrock posted =on the Rodmakers page several years ago. It is a very fast and powerful =5 weight with light, delicate tips which can handle the light tippets = I just finished this rod and gave it a try on the San Juan. I was =looking for a fairly fast 5 wt. @ 8' for throwing nymph rigs. This rod =does it pretty darned well. I haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell =you much there. When I first finished this rod, I thought it was going =to be a bit of a wrist buster, but I was very pleased that it cast =easily and is not tiresome at all. In fact, I really like it as a good =all around rod. I took one rainbow of probably over 5 pounds and turned =him inside out. Rod's got plenty of power. Now, I have to say, I'm a bit =of a speed freak. I like to throw weight and I like to do it out aways = Rodmaker's archive. I think that taper is a much more radical taper - =way into fast. I might suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go =through all of the 8' 5 wts and average their measurement at each =station. Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'm curious about. =Stress curve doesn't look too bad either. Anyway, I like Wayne's taper. =It's nice. I did heat treat up to 375 degrees for about 20 minutes. Just =enough to get off blonde and into light brown. Harry, Maybe I should have used "strong". John= I were fighting a heavy wind that afternoon, and I was still able to get = fairly long line out. However, I would not say this is the perfect rod = San Juan, and I'm still looking. Fast really is what's needed. Yea, yea, = John - if I'd only put up the nymphs..... I'll look at the Mystery taper. Sounds = what I'm looking for. Thanks, Jim ----- Original Message ----- Harry= Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052 falls into the parabolic category much more readily that the fast = think I understand you correctly in saying that you're looking for = fast and powerful 5 weight with light, delicate tips which can handle = I just= rod and gave it a try on the San Juan. I was looking for a fairly = haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell you much there. When I = finished this rod, I thought it was going to be a bit of a wrist = I was very pleased that it cast easily and is not tiresome at all. = I really like it as a good all around rod. I took one rainbow of = I'm a bit of a speed freak. I like to throw weight and I like to do = aways for long, drag-free drifts. I'm now looking at A.J. Thramer's = the Rodmaker's archive. I think that taper is a much more radical = way into fast. I might suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go = Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'm curious about. Stress = degrees for about 20 minutes. Just enough to get off blonde and into = brown. from atlasc1@earthlink.net Wed Apr 17 20:28:03 2002 g3I1S2424101 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:28:02 - ([209.179.147.181] helo=computer) id 16y0iO-00012p-00; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:28:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Milward 8' 4 WF 2 Piece Stuart, Is that the Para 15 modified to a 4wt? I do not have my book in front of me.If so yes I have. What do you want to know. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Milward 8' 4 WF 2 Piece Hi Has anybody made the Milward 8' #4 listed on page 91 of his book? Any good? ThanksStuart from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Apr 17 20:30:04 2002 g3I1U3424488 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:30:04 - Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:29:58 -0700 Subject: Re: tightening ferrules FILETIME=[8D4AFB50:01C1E678] How about a picture or diagram of it? Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: tightening ferrules I have only have to do this once, but had a toolmaker friend of mine make=upa Ray Gould type ferrule "squeezer", and it works very nicely. I fiddledabout with it a bit before I used it on the loose ferrule that I wanted t=ofix, and I would have to warn anybody who is going to use one for the fi=rsttime that this little gadget produces a HUGE amount of pressure, and youhave to be VERY careful not to overcorrect. Peter How abouta pi= john&n= From: Peter McKean Sent:= e to do this once, but had a toolmaker friend of mine make upa Ray Go=uld type ferrule "squeezer", and it works very nicely. I fiddledabout=with it a bit before I used it on the loose ferrule that I wanted to= he firsttime that this little gadget produces a HUGE amount of pressu=re, and youhave to be VERY careful not toovercorrect.Peter from JNL123141@msn.com Wed Apr 17 20:58:59 2002 g3I1ww425825 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 20:58:58 - Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:58:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod restoration question FILETIME=[971C44F0:01C1E67C] Barry,How tight the wraps are plays a big part also.... ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Rod restoration question I had some experiences related to the effect of guide wraps. I used to ma=ke nodeless rods and had chronic problems with scarf joint failures. I wo=n't go into the whole saga but my conclusion was that the only way I coul=d make nodeless rods that did not eventually fail at the scarf joints was=to use the strongest of glues - URAC or Resorcinol, I didn't try epoxy -= st for the scarfs) and Poly-U's didn't do the job. I THINK what happens i=s that the really strong glues hold the scarf joints in place by binding =their non-scarf surfaces to adjacent strips, since no glue I ever tried c=ould consistently produce scarf joints that did not fracture initially al=ong the glue line when tested as separate strips - many fractured partial=ly in the bamboo, but the break always started at the glue line, and it's=the beginning of the break that seals the joint's fate. I think Titebond=and other glues are fine for rods with no!des, they just (at least for me) couldn't add the extra strength required=to keep the scarf joints together. And yes I tried every method known to=rodmakers to make good scarf joints (sanding with various grades, planni=ng, various kinds of clampint, etc), and several different glues includin=g PU and URAC as well as TBII. Anyhow this is a long way of explaining that I've had too many rods that =became kindling, but before burning them I broke them up to see how they =fractured. Some of them had clear silk reinforcing wraps at various place=s, and of course there were the guide wraps, which I did not fully cut wh=en removing the guides (I'd cut one foot loose but pull the other out fro=m under its wrap). I was really impressed by the way the reinforcing wrap=s (or guide wraps when they happened to reinforce a scarf joint) kept tho=se joints together. When they didn't break at scarf joints, the rods tend=ed to break at the edge of wraps. To me this says that the wraps add a re=ally significant amount of strength, but also that they produce an area o=f extra stress at the edge of the wrap, much as a metal ferrule does with=its sleeve. Barry -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod restoration question Last spring I built a nodeless rod on Wayne C's "Sir D" taper.At glueup I had some sort of brain fart and got the strips out oforder somehow, so instead of the splices being staggered as theyshould be, several splices met together. Both tip and butt. So Iadded about a half dozen reinforcing wraps at these points inaddition to guide wraps that covered some junctures. I don't show this rod to people that know what a cane rod shouldlook like, but it really casts like a little demon. Even zippierthan my other Sir D. The more I think about it (often a dangerous practice), the morereasonable it seems that extra wraps more than guides stiffenthe rod. When the rod flexes, the cane must compress on one sideand/or stretch on the other, and become deformed from a hex incross section to something more oval. A small wrap well varnishedmay add enough stiffening to make a difference, by resisting thesemovements. Also if you use a glue that allows any "creep" thewraps would limit this.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Barry, How tight the wraps are plays a big part also.... john&nbs= to make nodeless rods and had chronic problems with scarf joint failures.=I won't go into the whole saga but my conclusion was that the only way I=could make nodeless rods that did not eventually fail at the scarf joint=s was to use the strongest of glues - URAC or Resorcinol, I didn't try ep=oxy - for the sections. Titebond II (as the main glue for the sections, n=ot just for the scarfs) and Poly-U's didn't do the job. I THINK what happ=ens is that the really strong glues hold the scarf joints in place by bin=ding their non-scarf surfaces to adjacent strips, since no glue I ever tr=ied could consistently produce scarf joints that did not fracture initial=ly along the glue line when tested as separate strips - many fractured pa=rtially in the bamboo, but the break always started at the glue line, and=it's the beginning of the break that seals the joint's fate. I think Tit=ebond and other glues are fine for rods with no!des, they just (at le=ast for me) couldn't add the extra strength required to keep the scarf jo=ints together. And yes I tried every method known to rodmakers to makego=od scarf joints (sanding with various grades, planning, various kinds of =clampint, etc), and several different glues including PU and URAC as well=as TBII.Anyhow this is a long way of explaining that I've had to=o many rods that became kindling, but before burning them I broke them up=to see how they fractured. Some of them had clear silk reinforcing wraps=at various places, and of course there were the guide wraps, which I did=not fully cut when removing the guides (I'd cut one foot loose but pull =the other out from under its wrap). I was really impressed by the way the=reinforcing wraps (or guide wraps when they happened to reinforce a scar=f joint) kept those joints together. When they didn't break at scarf join=ts, the rods tended to break at the edge of wraps. To me this says that t=he wraps add a really significant amount of strength, but also that they =produce an area of extra stress at the edge of the wrap, much as a metal =ferrule does with its sleeve.Barry-----Original Message--= Tuesday,= RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re:=Rod restoration questionLast spring I built a nodeless rod on Wa=yne C's "Sir D" taper.At glueup I had some sort of brain fart and got=the strips out oforder somehow, so instead of the splices being stag= and butt. So Iadded about a half dozen reinforcing wraps at these poi=nts inaddition to guide wraps that covered some junctures.Id=on't show this rod to people that know what a cane rod shouldlook lik=e, but it really casts like a little demon. Even zippierthan my other=Sir D.The more I think about it (often a dangerous practice), th=e morereasonable it seems that extra wraps more than guides one=sideand/or stretch on the other, and become deformed from a hexincross section to something more oval. A small wrap wellvarnishedma=y add enough stiffening to make a difference, by resistingthesemovem= ould limit this......................................................= betterstet= an a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking Wisconsin-M= 1899.= from Grnmtrds@aol.com Wed Apr 17 21:00:52 2002 g3I20q426121 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:00:52 - for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:00:45 - Subject: cool Peter, I didn't think you went blind from smoking. I thought it was for another reason. Jim from rextutor@yahoo.com Wed Apr 17 21:02:38 2002 g3I22b426367 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:02:37 - 17 Apr 2002 19:02:33 PDT Subject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip. The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest. Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from bennetts@cybermesa.com Wed Apr 17 22:18:07 2002 g3I3I6428402 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:18:06 - Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 I fished the San Juan with John Channer a couple of months ago and he =was using a Greyrock "Mystery Rod" which he built. It was very easy to =cast, I didn't have to think about it, and I felt it would be a great =rod for that river (as well as others). I don't know how often you get =to fish with him but you should ask to try that rod sometime (if you =haven't already) and see what you think. I'm planning to build one for = Scott P.S. John was kind of grumpy until we let him put on a dry fly...next = Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 While I would definitely agree that Wayne's conversion of the =para-15 to a five weight (8052) is a wonderful rod, you're not =characterizing it as fast, are you? There's little question that it =falls into the parabolic category much more readily that the fast one. =I think I understand you correctly in saying that you're looking for = If so, I might well suggest the Mystery Rod from Grayrock posted =on the Rodmakers page several years ago. It is a very fast and powerful =5 weight with light, delicate tips which can handle the light tippets = I just finished this rod and gave it a try on the San Juan. I was =looking for a fairly fast 5 wt. @ 8' for throwing nymph rigs. This rod =does it pretty darned well. I haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell =you much there. When I first finished this rod, I thought it was going =to be a bit of a wrist buster, but I was very pleased that it cast =easily and is not tiresome at all. In fact, I really like it as a good =all around rod. I took one rainbow of probably over 5 pounds and turned =him inside out. Rod's got plenty of power. Now, I have to say, I'm a bit =of a speed freak. I like to throw weight and I like to do it out aways = Rodmaker's archive. I think that taper is a much more radical taper - =way into fast. I might suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go =through all of the 8' 5 wts and average their measurement at each =station. Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'm curious about. =Stress curve doesn't look too bad either. Anyway, I like Wayne's taper. =It's nice. I did heat treat up to 375 degrees for about 20 minutes. Just =enough to get off blonde and into light brown. Jim, I fished the San Juan with John Channer= know how often you get to fish with him but you should ask to try that = Scott P.S. John was kind of grumpy until we = ----- Original Message ----- Harry= Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052 falls into the parabolic category much more readily that the fast = think I understand you correctly in saying that you're looking for = fast and powerful 5 weight with light, delicate tips which can handle = I just= rod and gave it a try on the San Juan. I was looking for a fairly = haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell you much there. When I = finished this rod, I thought it was going to be a bit of a wrist = I was very pleased that it cast easily and is not tiresome at all. = I really like it as a good all around rod. I took one rainbow of = I'm a bit of a speed freak. I like to throw weight and I like to do = aways for long, drag-free drifts. I'm now looking at A.J. Thramer's = the Rodmaker's archive. I think that taper is a much more radical = way into fast. I might suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go = Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'm curious about. Stress = degrees for about 20 minutes. Just enough to get off blonde and into = brown. from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Thu Apr 18 00:27:02 2002 g3I5R1401403 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:27:01 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion some heavy and alsosomefast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" not simplecastingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan Jason Swan schrieb: I think that the contact address for Pezon et Michel in the US is only acontact. In the "Legendary Rods" link it says the factory is in St- Brieuc,which is on the coast in the West of France, at the south end of the EnglishChannel (almost directly south of Plymouth, England). What is interestingto me is that Francois Hue, the guy who apparently owns or runs Pezonnow,doesn't claim to be an associate of the original company. All he said inthe French article is that he was passionate about fly fishing and believedthat anglers still wanted nice stuff, so they (apparently more than himself)decided to take up or invest in the "challenge." Sounds a little like whathappened to Powell in the US. So, having never cast one of their rods, what are they like? I see themquite often on Ebay. Jason On 4/17/02 7:34 AM, "Stefan Grau" wrote: Have you seen the (new) website from Pezon & Michel?http://www.pezonetmichel.com Interesting to readon the website, that Pezon is located in the US now, i heard the owneris a french and ex-member of Pezon, living and making rods in France(for people who speaks french here the article:http://echosmouche.free.fr/em0900_001.htm). Not in Amboise causethe old fabric was closed, bit in the region named "Provence".Some Swiss rodmakers like me was buying some old stock of PezonsBambooone year ago before the fabric was closed definitive. Te beveler/millwas standing also there, rotten unfortunately (or look as rotten for aman not very common in machines like me). Oh yes - the bamboo was badand very wet, but a cheap choice for some beginners, i was happy totest-buy only 20 half culms. Sincery Stefan -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive. -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 18 01:20:46 2002 g3I6Ki402470 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:20:44 - Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive That's what I found too. I repaired a parabolic PM rod with a broken tip a while back and when I test cast it I couldn't get it to work so I feared the worst and sent it back to the owner warning him I may have cocked it up with the filler piece I used to scarf in place to join it all up again.He replied it was as good as new and was casting just like it always did which was nice to find out but I'm still in the dark as to how to make it work.Nothing like a PHY para for example. Tony At 07:34 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion some heavy and alsosomefast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" not simple castingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Thu Apr 18 01:24:36 2002 g3I6OZ402743 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:24:35 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive ...mabye that`s the discussion i often heard - The Young Rods was alsodescribed asparabolic so as the Pezons was, but seems Youngs are semi- , Pezon are full-parabolic - whatever "parabolic" means. I use a "full-pezon-parabolic" by fishing it on swiss mountain lake for widecastsand it works fine, but i have a lot to work for bing the line and rod in action. Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: That's what I found too. I repaired a parabolic PM rod with a broken tip awhile back and when I test cast it I couldn't get it to work so I fearedthe worst and sent it back to the owner warning him I may have cocked itupwith the filler piece I used to scarf in place to join it all up again.He replied it was as good as new and was casting just like it always didwhich was nice to find out but I'm still in the dark as to how to make itwork.Nothing like a PHY para for example. Tony At 07:34 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion some heavy andalso somefast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" not simplecastingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from stuart.rod@gmx.de Thu Apr 18 01:26:58 2002 g3I6Qv403031 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:26:57 - (149.225.137.235) Subject: Re: Milward 8' 4 WF 2 Piece Rod C Hi Adam, I'm sorry, I meant the fast taper listed, the one that was suposed to be amachining accident and other tapers thrown together. It is Rod C. I was just looking for the next taper to build and I was interested in findingout if anybody had made and cast one. Thanks Stuart Adam Vigil schrieb: Stuart, Is that the Para 15 modified to a 4wt? I do not have my book in front ofme.If so yes I have. What do you want to know. Adam----- Original Message -----From: "Stuart Moultrie" Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 4:40 AMSubject: Milward 8' 4 WF 2 Piece Hi Has anybody made the Milward 8' #4 listed on page 91 of his book? Any good? ThanksStuart from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Thu Apr 18 01:29:44 2002 g3I6Tg403345 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:29:42 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive ..best is also to use this rods with this "ugly" old automatic reels - they havethe good weight for balancing this rods right. Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: That's what I found too. I repaired a parabolic PM rod with a broken tip awhile back and when I test cast it I couldn't get it to work so I fearedthe worst and sent it back to the owner warning him I may have cocked itupwith the filler piece I used to scarf in place to join it all up again.He replied it was as good as new and was casting just like it always didwhich was nice to find out but I'm still in the dark as to how to make itwork.Nothing like a PHY para for example. Tony At 07:34 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion some heavy andalso somefast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" not simplecastingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 18 01:54:23 2002 g3I6sL404177 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:54:22 - Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive The Young's paras for want of a better term are nothing like the PM's. I was casting on my casting lawn that doubles as a football field on weekends and try as I could I couldn't get line to behave as I wanted it to unless I just kept the minimum line in the air then did a heavy load on the back cast and shot as much as I could but that seemed a bit harsh on the rod so I didn't try that too much.When I tried just casting in the normal manner, ie. keeping some line out and simple casting as you do on a stream I was flat out getting 30 or so feet after trying to cast softer, harder in between etc. That's no problem in real life use on a stream I guess but I had the impression it was an open water sort of design so I was a bit baffled.In the end like I wrote I just posted it back to the owner with a note. The rod beat me [:-(] Tony At 08:32 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: ...mabye that`s the discussion i often heard - The Young Rods was also described asparabolic so as the Pezons was, but seems Youngs are semi-, Pezon arefull-parabolic - whatever "parabolic" means. I use a "full-pezon-parabolic" by fishing it on swiss mountain lake for wide castsand it works fine, but i have a lot to work for bing the line and rod in action. Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: That's what I found too. I repaired a parabolic PM rod with a broken tip awhile back and when I test cast it I couldn't get it to work so I fearedthe worst and sent it back to the owner warning him I may have cocked itupwith the filler piece I used to scarf in place to join it all up again.He replied it was as good as new and was casting just like it always didwhich was nice to find out but I'm still in the dark as to how to make it work. Nothing like a PHY para for example. Tony At 07:34 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion some heavy and also some fast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" not simplecastingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Thu Apr 18 02:07:56 2002 g3I77t404612 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:07:56 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive ...well the Para`s - i made once the Martha Marie from young, as 3-pc, andmade asmall swelled butt in it - the rod is really caster with alot of punch with a 6Cortland 333 HT line Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: The Young's paras for want of a better term are nothing like the PM's. Iwas casting on my casting lawn that doubles as a football field onweekendsand try as I could I couldn't get line to behave as I wanted it to unless Ijust kept the minimum line in the air then did a heavy load on the backcast and shot as much as I could but that seemed a bit harsh on the rod soI didn't try that too much.When I tried just casting in the normal manner, ie. keeping some line outand simple casting as you do on a stream I was flat out getting 30 or sofeet after trying to cast softer, harder in between etc. That's no problemin real life use on a stream I guess but I had the impression it was anopen water sort of design so I was a bit baffled.In the end like I wrote I just posted it back to the owner with a note. Therod beat me [:-(] Tony At 08:32 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: ...mabye that`s the discussion i often heard - The Young Rods was alsodescribed asparabolic so as the Pezons was, but seems Youngs are semi- , Pezon arefull-parabolic - whatever "parabolic" means. I use a "full-pezon-parabolic" by fishing it on swiss mountain lake forwide castsand it works fine, but i have a lot to work for bing the line and rod inaction. Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: That's what I found too. I repaired a parabolic PM rod with a broken tipawhile back and when I test cast it I couldn't get it to work so I fearedthe worst and sent it back to the owner warning him I may have cockedit upwith the filler piece I used to scarf in place to join it all up again.He replied it was as good as new and was casting just like it always didwhich was nice to find out but I'm still in the dark as to how to make it work. Nothing like a PHY para for example. Tony At 07:34 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion some heavyand also some fast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" notsimplecastingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 18 02:13:50 2002 g3I7Dm404978 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:13:48 - Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive What effect do you think the swelling of the butt have? Do you think it restricted the action much or just alter it? Tony At 09:15 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: ...well the Para`s - i made once the Martha Marie from young, as 3-pc, and made asmall swelled butt in it - the rod is really caster with alot of punch with a 6Cortland 333 HT line Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: The Young's paras for want of a better term are nothing like the PM's. Iwas casting on my casting lawn that doubles as a football field onweekendsand try as I could I couldn't get line to behave as I wanted it to unless Ijust kept the minimum line in the air then did a heavy load on the backcast and shot as much as I could but that seemed a bit harsh on the rodsoI didn't try that too much.When I tried just casting in the normal manner, ie. keeping some line outand simple casting as you do on a stream I was flat out getting 30 or sofeet after trying to cast softer, harder in between etc. That's noproblemin real life use on a stream I guess but I had the impression it was anopen water sort of design so I was a bit baffled.In the end like I wrote I just posted it back to the owner with a note. Therod beat me [:-(] Tony At 08:32 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: ...mabye that`s the discussion i often heard - The Young Rods was alsodescribed asparabolic so as the Pezons was, but seems Youngs are semi- , Pezon are full- parabolic - whatever "parabolic" means. I use a "full-pezon-parabolic" by fishing it on swiss mountain lake forwide castsand it works fine, but i have a lot to work for bing the line and rod inaction. Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: That's what I found too. I repaired a parabolic PM rod with a broken tip a while back and when I test cast it I couldn't get it to work so I feared the worst and sent it back to the owner warning him I may have cocked it up with the filler piece I used to scarf in place to join it all up again.He replied it was as good as new and was casting just like it always did which was nice to find out but I'm still in the dark as to how to make it work. Nothing like a PHY para for example. Tony At 07:34 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion some heavyand also some fast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" not simple castingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Thu Apr 18 02:21:04 2002 g3I7L3405284 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 02:21:03 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive from my opinion just alter, but shure the butt will become some stifferbefore thegrip, but seems that this does not affect the action of this rod much. Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: What effect do you think the swelling of the butt have? Do you think itrestricted the action much or just alter it? Tony At 09:15 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: ...well the Para`s - i made once the Martha Marie from young, as 3-pc,andmade asmall swelled butt in it - the rod is really caster with alot of punchwith a 6Cortland 333 HT line Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: The Young's paras for want of a better term are nothing like the PM's. Iwas casting on my casting lawn that doubles as a football field onweekendsand try as I could I couldn't get line to behave as I wanted it to unless Ijust kept the minimum line in the air then did a heavy load on the backcast and shot as much as I could but that seemed a bit harsh on therod soI didn't try that too much.When I tried just casting in the normal manner, ie. keeping some lineoutand simple casting as you do on a stream I was flat out getting 30 orsofeet after trying to cast softer, harder in between etc. That's noproblemin real life use on a stream I guess but I had the impression it was anopen water sort of design so I was a bit baffled.In the end like I wrote I just posted it back to the owner with a note.Therod beat me [:-(] Tony At 08:32 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: ...mabye that`s the discussion i often heard - The Young Rods wasalsodescribed asparabolic so as the Pezons was, but seems Youngs are semi-, Pezonare full- parabolic - whatever "parabolic" means. I use a "full-pezon-parabolic" by fishing it on swiss mountain lake forwide castsand it works fine, but i have a lot to work for bing the line and rod inaction. Sincerly Stefan Tony Young schrieb: That's what I found too. I repaired a parabolic PM rod with a broken tip a while back and when I test cast it I couldn't get it to work so I feared the worst and sent it back to the owner warning him I may have cocked it up with the filler piece I used to scarf in place to join it all up again.He replied it was as good as new and was casting just like it always did which was nice to find out but I'm still in the dark as to how tomake it work. Nothing like a PHY para for example. Tony At 07:34 AM 4/18/02 +0200, Stefan Grau wrote: The Pezon Rods are not bad rods, but from my opinion someheavy and also some fast in action. Most are parabolic rods and for the "unknown" not simple castingtools - but i like them anyway. Stefan /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Apr 18 05:21:46 2002 g3IALi407129 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:21:45 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive I made the Colorado Super PPP 7'7" #4/5 and it is more true parabolic (readsofter in the butt) than the PHY's. It does cast smooth and can handle a lotof line in the air, but I find it to heavy in the tip, wich probably isbecause of the soft butt........ When You look at the stress curve, thebottom part of the rod has a much higher stress than the tip..... If some find the PHY's difficult to cast, don't try the PPP's or at leastnot the Colorado:-) danny from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Apr 18 05:25:54 2002 g3IAPr407405 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 05:25:53 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive on the other hand, the Ritz Fario Club is more like the Para15 or semiparabolic if You like.......... danny from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Apr 18 06:10:10 2002 g3IBA8408368 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:10:09 - g3IB9wn94433; Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive Jason That was my read as well. Also, at $500 for a split bamboo-handled putter, I assume we are talkingConfederate dollars here, or maybe even new Zealand. In Australia, of course, it would be about $2000! (Actually that's only putin there to get in ahead of the Kiwis.) Peter from stefan.grau@infoaccess.info Thu Apr 18 06:21:03 2002 g3IBL2408667 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:21:02 - Organization: Huber & Lang INFOACCESS Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive ...i do not know much about the "new" Pezon Rods an not see or cast one, butafrench rodmaker told me that they are far away from the pastmade ones -not sogood. Interesting the pics on the website are most of the old Pezoncataloguesand seems not represent the todays workshops - i`ve seen most pics somebeforeof the website. But anyway - the old made Pezons are not bad, also not incosmetics. Sincerly Stefan Peter McKean schrieb: Jason That was my read as well. Also, at $500 for a split bamboo-handled putter, I assume we are talkingConfederate dollars here, or maybe even new Zealand. In Australia, of course, it would be about $2000! (Actually that's only putin there to get in ahead of the Kiwis.) Peter -- **************************************Stefan GrauInformation Consultant Infoaccess Hans Huber AGLaenggass-Strasse 76CH-3000 Bern 9Switzerland Tel: + 41 (0) 31 300 45 00Fax: +41 (0) 31 300 45 90 eMail: stefan.grau@infoaccess.infoURL: http://www.infoaccess.info/************************************** from harms1@pa.net Thu Apr 18 06:26:31 2002 g3IBQP409072 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:26:30 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Oven fan All, I'm wondering about how to mount a convection oven fan on the outside ofmymica-strip oven. Do any of you think it might be as effective in treatingcane as it is in cooking food? I'm thinking about closed-loop ductwork with openings through each end ofthe oven. The fan would be mounted somewhere in-line. I haven't lookedinto the fan itself, but I assume that these units are able to take theheat. Yes? Any thoughts or considerations out there? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip.The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest.Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Apr 18 06:34:26 2002 g3IBYQ409469 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:34:26 - g3IBYKtx004053 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:34:20 - Subject: Fwd: Neighbors from Hell..... Way too Funny..... http://www.knology.net/~carlos/redneck.htm from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 18 06:38:41 2002 g3IBce409795 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:38:41 - for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:38:32 - Subject: Student Rick/ DELETE if not interested :::STUDENT*RICK in FALLING FOR YOU THE VIDEO:::If you'd like to see the STUDENT*RICK video go here STUDENT*RICK 'Falling :::VOTE FOR STUDENT*RICK ON MUCHMUSIC!:::The hit single "falling for you" from Our debut record "Soundtrack For A Generation" is now on Much Music. Go here and vote http://www.mmusa.tv/heavy/mpov.html and click on the lime green bar. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ :::STUDENT*RICK inFALLING FOR YOU THE VIDEO:::If you'd like to see the STUDENT*RICK video go here STUDENT*RICK 'Falling :::VOTE FOR STUDENT*RICK ON MUCHMUSIC!:::The hit single "falling for you" from Our debut record "Soundtrack For A Generation" is now on Much Music. Go here and vote http://www.mmusa.tv/heavy/mpov.html and click on the lime greenbar. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 18 06:45:57 2002 g3IBjo410171 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:45:51 - "Rodmakers" Subject: Re: Oven fan g3IBjq410172 I've put a lot of thought into fans in ovens but only thought mind you.Imagine something like this:You know how a rotisserie works? Put a rod right through the oven with both ends sticking out and fix metal fan paddles at each end inside the oven in such a way they drive air towards each other. Fit a pulley to one end and drive the whole shebang from the out side.I wonder how that would go? Tony At 07:21 AM 4/18/02 -0400, WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I'm wondering about how to mount a convection oven fan on the outside ofmymica-strip oven. Do any of you think it might be as effective in treatingcane as it is in cooking food? I'm thinking about closed-loop ductwork with openings through each end ofthe oven. The fan would be mounted somewhere in-line. I haven't lookedinto the fan itself, but I assume that these units are able to take theheat. Yes? Any thoughts or considerations out there? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Rex Tutor" Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:02 PMSubject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip.The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest.Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Apr 18 06:57:42 2002 g3IBva410551 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:57:36 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2114.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id EAA01973; ETAsAhRr6t25BO5lVZxLJ5oCEmLycbjIBwIUB0KR16g3ZIdWh7BtCQOgGRTT9FY= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (Rodmakers)Subject: Re: Oven fan 2002 19:53:03 +0800 Tony - Thats exactly what I did to my oven. Used a centrifical blowerthat was the stack switchfan from the furnace. Had a 12" extension madeup for the end of the oven and mounted the motor on top and drove itwith a V belt. Did have to add baffles right in front of the bloweroutlet to calm the cyclone. Sure got even temps now from middle to bothends. Also added a 3 1/2" X 1/4" steel plate over the top of the micastrip heater to cut down on the radiant heat. Cheers, Jerry from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 18 07:05:20 2002 g3IC5D410888 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:05:14 - Subject: Re: Oven fan rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu (Rodmakers) Having seen your setup it's now undoubtedly pretty damn near perfect.The steel over the mica strip to absorb excess radiant heat, I guess that made a dif right off?Also, do you have one or two fans, sounds like only one? Tony At 07:57 AM 4/18/02 -0400, Jerry Young wrote: Tony - Thats exactly what I did to my oven. Used a centrifical blowerthat was the stack switchfan from the furnace. Had a 12" extension madeup for the end of the oven and mounted the motor on top and drove itwith a V belt. Did have to add baffles right in front of the bloweroutlet to calm the cyclone. Sure got even temps now from middle to bothends. Also added a 3 1/2" X 1/4" steel plate over the top of the micastrip heater to cut down on the radiant heat. Cheers, Jerry /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jerryy@webtv.net Thu Apr 18 07:23:48 2002 g3ICNl411476 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:23:47 - by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with 2116.public.lawson.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id FAA20894; ETAsAhRGXYhr57HxkZsTWVAgQz+bH+ha2QIUOh2n149e8VEX0M8SXeen3GPKgPM= Subject: Re: Oven fan 2002 20:12:20 +0800 Tony - Put the steel strip in the oven before adding the fan section.You're right - it did make a great difference. Only other thing I didwas add the speed control rheostat from the router table so I couldcontrol the speed of the one centrifical blower. It is possible to gettoo much air moving around. Schlarb from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 18 07:27:41 2002 g3ICRc411782 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:27:39 - Subject: Re: Oven fan Thanks Schlarb. TY At 08:23 AM 4/18/02 -0400, Jerry Young wrote: Tony - Put the steel strip in the oven before adding the fan section.You're right - it did make a great difference. Only other thing I didwas add the speed control rheostat from the router table so I couldcontrol the speed of the one centrifical blower. It is possible to gettoo much air moving around. Schlarb /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Thu Apr 18 07:45:02 2002 g3ICj2412368 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 07:45:02 -0500 helo=default) id 16yBHO-00062T-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:44:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Oven fan Bill, Look at the pictures of my oven on Todd's tips site. It's the last one. Write ifyou've questions. http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Contraptions/Ovens/ovens.html M-D All, I'm wondering about how to mount a convection oven fan on the outside ofmymica-strip oven. Do any of you think it might be as effective in treatingcane as it is in cooking food? I'm thinking about closed-loop ductwork with openings through each end ofthe oven. The fan would be mounted somewhere in-line. I haven't lookedinto the fan itself, but I assume that these units are able to take theheat. Yes? Any thoughts or considerations out there? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip.The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest.Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Apr 18 08:37:42 2002 g3IDbf414165 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:37:41 - Thu, 18 Apr 2002 06:37:40 PDT Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive I just completed a putter shaft two weeks ago and assembled it withan odyssey head. It was a HUGE hit with the recipient. something tokeep in mind for the non-fishing heathens in your life. It's a pretty simple process. I didn;t bother with much strighteningbecause the dimensions are so large that it straightens itself. Went from .365 to .510 with a dip above the head. Jerry --- Peter McKean wrote: Jason That was my read as well. Also, at $500 for a split bamboo-handled putter, I assume we aretalkingConfederate dollars here, or maybe even new Zealand. In Australia, of course, it would be about $2000! (Actually that'sonly putin there to get in ahead of the Kiwis.) Peter __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Thu Apr 18 08:51:05 2002 g3IDp4415025 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:51:04 - Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:50:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Pezon et Michel - New and alive FILETIME=[FA8FAD20:01C1E6DF] So Jerry, is that a parabolic action or what? Or does it have a lot oftip (meant club head) snap? Is it hard to get the timing on the puttsor is it pretty easy? Inquiring minds want to know. Jerry Madigan wrote: I just completed a putter shaft two weeks ago and assembled it withan odyssey head. It was a HUGE hit with the recipient. something tokeep in mind for the non-fishing heathens in your life. It's a pretty simple process. I didn;t bother with much strighteningbecause the dimensions are so large that it straightens itself. Went from .365 to .510 with a dip above the head. Jerry --- Peter McKean wrote: Jason That was my read as well. Also, at $500 for a split bamboo-handled putter, I assume we aretalkingConfederate dollars here, or maybe even new Zealand. In Australia, of course, it would be about $2000! (Actually that'sonly putin there to get in ahead of the Kiwis.) Peter __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from dickay@alltel.net Thu Apr 18 09:02:09 2002 Received: from mta01- , , ,"Rodmakers" References: Subject: Re: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Bill,Tony, et al: Go to the nearest Heating & Cooling Supply house and look at an80%+ furnace. To acheive the higher efficiency the companies had torestrict the heat exchangers so much that there is not a natural draft flowthrough them. Thus they added a "Induced Draft Fan" or IDF. Theseassemblies are made to handle the heat of the combustion products fromthe furnace which can be close to 400ŸF. One of these assemblies would beperfect for what you are considering. Might ask a dealer if he has replacedan 80%+ furnace lately and if you can have the old Induced Draft FanAssembly. Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Young" ; "Rodmakers" I've put a lot of thought into fans in ovens but only thought mind you.Imagine something like this:You know how a rotisserie works? Put a rod right through the oven with both ends sticking out and fix metal fan paddles at each end inside the oven insuch a way they drive air towards each other. Fit a pulley to one end anddrive the whole shebang from the out side.I wonder how that would go? Tony At 07:21 AM 4/18/02 -0400, WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I'm wondering about how to mount a convection oven fan on the outside of my mica-strip oven. Do any of you think it might be as effective in treating cane as it is in cooking food? I'm thinking about closed-loop ductwork with openings through each end ofthe oven. The fan would be mounted somewhere in-line. I haven't lookedinto the fan itself, but I assume that these units are able to take theheat. Yes? Any thoughts or considerations out there? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Rex Tutor" Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:02 PMSubject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip.The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest.Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from dickay@alltel.net Thu Apr 18 09:02:15 2002 g3IE2E415765 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:02:14 - srv.alltel.net Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:02:13 -0500 Subject: Re: tightening ferrules John, Are you familiar with a copper tubing flaring block? Or the =wooden ferrule puller described in other literature? Same idea! Can =even use your vise to clamp the two blocks together.Dick Fuhrman Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 8:30 PMSubject: Re: tightening ferrules How about a picture or diagram of it? Thanks. ----- Original Message -----From: Peter McKeanSent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:01 AM Subject: Re: tightening ferrules I have only have to do this once, but had a toolmaker friend of mine =make upa Ray Gould type ferrule "squeezer", and it works very nicely. I =fiddledabout with it a bit before I used it on the loose ferrule that I =wanted tofix, and I would have to warn anybody who is going to use one for =the firsttime that this little gadget produces a HUGE amount of pressure, and =youhave to be VERY careful not to overcorrect. Peter together.Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- John = Cc: RodmakersPost Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: tightening =ferrules ----- Original Message ----- Peter McKeanSent: Wednesday, April 17, = AM Cc: rodmakersSubject: Re: tightening =ferrules friend of mine make upa Ray Gould type ferrule "squeezer", and = very nicely. I fiddledabout with it a bit before I used it on = is going to use one for the firsttime that this little gadget = =overcorrect.Peter= from harms1@pa.net Thu Apr 18 09:48:06 2002 g3IEm6419194 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:48:06 - Subject: Re: Oven fan Tony, Yeah. I don't think the top, side or bottom mount would matter much--justas long as you get the hot air moving out of one end and back into theother. What I was really wondering about, I guess, is the fan/motor itself. Does akitchen, convection oven have a special fan that can take the heat, or dothese ovens have some other air-circulating arrangement? And mightanybodyknow about the cost of these fans? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Oven fan Bill,Was thinking about the same thing. Just getting around to doing is something elseFigured on an elbow coming out of the bottom of the oven at the front andanother at the back with the fan in the middle. The reason at the bottom is that is where the heat strip is. I guess it would work on top too.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I'm wondering about how to mount a convection oven fan on the outsideof my mica-strip oven. Do any of you think it might be as effective in treating cane as it is in cooking food? I'm thinking about closed-loop ductwork with openings through each end of the oven. The fan would be mounted somewhere in-line. I haven't lookedinto the fan itself, but I assume that these units are able to take theheat. Yes? Any thoughts or considerations out there? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Rex Tutor" Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:02 PMSubject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip.The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest.Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from gjm80301@yahoo.com Thu Apr 18 10:01:07 2002 g3IF16420206 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:01:06 - Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:01:05 PDT Subject: Re: Oven fan Bill, Here is the poor man's version. I bought a "pancake fan motor" used and Surplus for about $20. The motor comes with a light duty cageand the spindle comes out perpindicular to the cage. It is alight-duty motor. I just mounted the motor on the outside of the endof the oven and attached some 1/4" steel rod that went through theoven wall and attached a 3.5" aluminum fan blade. To avoid heattransfer to the motor. I drilled both ends of a 2" length of 3/4"dowel rod and made a coupling that attaches to the motor spindle andthe steel rod. I need to re-align it once in a while, but it works and makes bigdifference Once you get the air moving (mine goes in a circle arounda baffle over the heating element), you need to cut down on yourbaking time. The strips are much more even for me. Jerry --- WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Tony, Yeah. I don't think the top, side or bottom mount would mattermuch--justas long as you get the hot air moving out of one end and back intotheother. What I was really wondering about, I guess, is the fan/motoritself. Does akitchen, convection oven have a special fan that can take the heat,or dothese ovens have some other air-circulating arrangement? And mightanybodyknow about the cost of these fans? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:04 AMSubject: Re: Oven fan Bill,Was thinking about the same thing. Just getting around to doing issomething elseFigured on an elbow coming out of the bottom of the oven at the front and another at the back with the fan in the middle. The reason at the bottomis that is where the heat strip is. I guess it would work on top too. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I'm wondering about how to mount a convection oven fan on the outside ofmy mica-strip oven. Do any of you think it might be as effective intreating cane as it is in cooking food? I'm thinking about closed-loop ductwork with openings through each endof the oven. The fan would be mounted somewhere in-line. I haven't looked into the fan itself, but I assume that these units are able to take the heat. Yes? Any thoughts or considerations out there? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Rex Tutor" Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:02 PMSubject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip.The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest.Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from harms1@pa.net Thu Apr 18 11:09:26 2002 g3IG9P424388 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:09:25 - Subject: Re: Oven fan Jerry, Thanks very much for the suggestions. The "poor man's" version is what I'mall about. As you describe the motor, however, it seems to me that almostANY kind of little motor would be fine as long as the heat transfer issue isaddressed. The little wood dowel seems like a sensible solution. Is the little fan blade within the one end of your oven the only thing thatprovides for air movement? Does that seem to do the job for you inequalizing and stabilizing internal temps.? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Oven fan Bill, Here is the poor man's version. I bought a "pancake fan motor" used and Surplus for about $20. The motor comes with a light duty cageand the spindle comes out perpindicular to the cage. It is alight-duty motor. I just mounted the motor on the outside of the endof the oven and attached some 1/4" steel rod that went through theoven wall and attached a 3.5" aluminum fan blade. To avoid heattransfer to the motor. I drilled both ends of a 2" length of 3/4"dowel rod and made a coupling that attaches to the motor spindle andthe steel rod. I need to re-align it once in a while, but it works and makes bigdifference Once you get the air moving (mine goes in a circle arounda baffle over the heating element), you need to cut down on yourbaking time. The strips are much more even for me. Jerry --- WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Tony, Yeah. I don't think the top, side or bottom mount would mattermuch--justas long as you get the hot air moving out of one end and back intotheother. What I was really wondering about, I guess, is the fan/motoritself. Does akitchen, convection oven have a special fan that can take the heat,or dothese ovens have some other air-circulating arrangement? And mightanybodyknow about the cost of these fans? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:04 AMSubject: Re: Oven fan Bill,Was thinking about the same thing. Just getting around to doing issomething elseFigured on an elbow coming out of the bottom of the oven at the front and another at the back with the fan in the middle. The reason at the bottomis that is where the heat strip is. I guess it would work on top too. Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com WILLIAM HARMS wrote: All, I'm wondering about how to mount a convection oven fan on the outside ofmy mica-strip oven. Do any of you think it might be as effective intreating cane as it is in cooking food? I'm thinking about closed-loop ductwork with openings through each endof the oven. The fan would be mounted somewhere in-line. I haven't looked into the fan itself, but I assume that these units are able to take the heat. Yes? Any thoughts or considerations out there? Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Rex Tutor" Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:02 PMSubject: Re: Oven I saved this info from my oven of the same type:Surplus Center catalog, they have listed on page 147an Oven Thermostat Control, Item No. 11-2192, New,w/60" capillary tube, 150Ÿ F to 500Ÿ F, rated 15 ampat 240 volts AC, instructions included, 3"x 13/4" x 21/2",all for the low price of $12.95. Sorry, no URL, butthe phone number is 1-800-488-3407. They have manyelectrical motors, switches, hydraulics, gas anddiesel engines, winches, etc. Call for a catalog.I have a diagram of the wirin for this item. It workswith my mica strip.The next oven I make will be a convection heated airoven with a variable control heat gun. I do recommendyou look into it before you invest.Good Luck--- Robert Cristant wrote: Hello List, I need some help. I am in the processof building the duct work oven with the mica stripheater. Now not being good at all with electricalwires and the such, I was wondering if there is asite that gives detailed instruction on wiring stripheaters or can anyone give advice on the process, ifit is a simple one. I have checked the tips siteand have not found wiring instructions. I have alsochecked the list's archives and there too have beenunsuccessful. Any help would be greatlyappreciated. Robert __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from cw@vanion.com Thu Apr 18 13:01:59 2002 g3II1w429882 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:01:59 - for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:07:05 - Subject: Check ou this rod COOL! ht= COOL! from cw@vanion.com Thu Apr 18 13:11:55 2002 g3IIBs400650 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:11:54 - for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:17:01 - Subject: FLY ROD I'll try again...... I'll try again...... from cw@vanion.com Thu Apr 18 13:15:45 2002 g3IIFi401060 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:15:44 - for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:20:51 - Subject: Re: FLY ROD Still didn't work, Go to ebay item # 1822416124. Laminated "quad"??----- Original Message-----From: chad wigham Subject: FLY ROD I'll try again...... Still didn't work, Go to ebay item #= Laminated "quad"?? -----Original = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= RODI'll try =again...... from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Thu Apr 18 13:20:45 2002 g3IIKi401568 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:20:44 - LAA23645 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:19:12 - LAA26517 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:20:43 - g3IIKf028554 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:20:41 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:20:41 -0700 Subject: help I've switched over to a 5 wt silk fly line and now my leader diameter are tobig. You silk like guys, when you make leaders what diameter do you use forthe but section? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from LambersonW@missouri.edu Thu Apr 18 13:23:10 2002 g3IIN9401911 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:23:09 - Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:23:04 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: FLY ROD Thread-Topic: FLY RODThread-Index: AcHnBTwOc9MqnqG2Rk+A8tOBFQ92eAAAOhJQ FILETIME=[145C0700:01C1E706] If you use that item # in a "search by item #" it will come up. Pretty =interesting looking rod, I suppose somewhat the same idea as the =rectangular quads. I've not seen anything like it before. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: FLY ROD Still didn't work, Go to ebay item # 1822416124. Laminated "quad"?? -----Original Message----- Subject: FLY ROD I'll try again...... interesting looking rod, I suppose somewhat the same idea as the = Lamberson RODStill didn't work, Go to ebay item = 1822416124. Laminated "quad"?? -----Original = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= RODI'll try =again...... from baconrod@gsmrinc.com Thu Apr 18 14:03:44 2002 g3IJ3h404479 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:03:43 -0500 by uid 10599 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4197. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.512469 secs); 18 Apr 2002 19:03:39 -0000 (216.153.210.138) Subject: Re: FLY ROD Bill.Back in the early 80's or late 70's Ed Sisty joined forces with =Fred Debell and formed the Ed Sisty Rod Co. They produced a square =laminated rod in several lengths. I have their add which was in the =Flyfisherman Mag. I had one of their rods, but sold it years ago to a =collector that wanted it more than I did.Best Hal. Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:23 PMSubject: RE: FLY ROD If you use that item # in a "search by item #" it will come up. =Pretty interesting looking rod, I suppose somewhat the same idea as the =rectangular quads. I've not seen anything like it before. Bill Lamberson-----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:18 PM Subject: Re: FLY ROD Still didn't work, Go to ebay item # 1822416124. Laminated "quad"??----- Original Message-----From: chad wigham Subject: FLY ROD I'll try again...... Bill. = late 70's Ed Sisty joined forces with Fred Debell and formed the Ed = Co. They produced a square laminated rod in several lengths. I have = which was in the Flyfisherman Mag. I had one of their rods, but sold it = ago to a collector that wanted it more than I did. ----- Original Message ----- Lamberson, William R. Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 = PMSubject: RE: FLY ROD interesting looking rod, I suppose somewhat the same idea as the = before. Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: chad wigham Re: FLY RODStill didn't work, Go to ebay = 1822416124. Laminated "quad"?? -----Original = <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= RODI'll try =again...... from cw@vanion.com Thu Apr 18 14:10:22 2002 g3IJAM405053 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:10:22 - for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:15:29 - Subject: Yukihiro Yoshida Saw in Carmine Lisella's catalog listings for Yukihiros rods, found his =page and he uses different bamboo, and unique heating process. Thought =it might be of interest. Saw in Carmine Lisella's catalog = Yukihiros rods, found his page and he uses different bamboo, and unique = process. Thought it might be of interest. from jvswan@earthlink.net Thu Apr 18 15:00:43 2002 g3IK0g408254 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:00:42 - (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429 Subject: Re: Yukihiro Yoshida understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3101983236_2844791 So, what I want more about are those Tameki straightening tools. Jason On 4/18/02 2:12 PM, "chad wigham" wrote: http://homepage1.nifty.com/yukihiro-rod/englishindex.html --B_3101983236_2844791 Re: Yukihiro Yoshida So, what I want more about are those Tamekistraighten= Jason wrote: http://homepage1.nifty.com/yukihiro-rod/englishindex.html Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive. --B_3101983236_2844791-- from rcurry@ttlc.net Thu Apr 18 15:02:14 2002 g3IK2D408539 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:02:13 - User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: help Patrick, Nothing bigger in the butt than .015" for a 5wt, .013" for a 3wt.. The furled leaders are a good fit, and Olaf (www.silkflylines.com) has silk braided leaders from Thebault at a good price. (Usual disclaimer applies.) Best regards,Reedhttp://www.overmywaders.com/ Coffey, Patrick W wrote: I've switched over to a 5 wt silk fly line and now my leader diameter are tobig. You silk like guys, when you make leaders what diameter do you use forthe but section? Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 . -- > from johnfmckinnon@netscape.net Thu Apr 18 16:37:51 2002 Received: g3ILbp413500 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 4.b1.267f934 (16227) for Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:37:28 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:37:28 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Is there anyone Message-ID:X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN I am wondering if there isanyone one the list who makes rod living in the Ottawa, Ontario area. If so iwould be interested in talking to them__________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mailaccount today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ >Fromflyfish@gbronline.com Thu Apr 18 18:21:41 2002 Received: from 0500 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Apr2002 18:23:58 -0500 From: Greg Kuntz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN > from goodaple@cox-internet.com Thu Apr 18 19:33:31 2002 Received: from io.cox-internet.com vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:31:23 -0500 Message-ID:From: Subject: Test Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN This is a multi-part message printable jfreeman@cyberport.com Thu Apr 18 19:51:03 2002 Received: from g3J0p2419502 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:59:25 -0600 Subject: Slow to Fast rule of thumb spam. Per Brandin quoted L. Feierabend's taper rule of thumb in his article ="Bamboo Rod Action and Design" - Slow .023 to .028 drop in taper per =foot; Medium .028 to .033 drop/ft.; Fast .033 to .038 drop/ft. I haven't =done the conversion to 5" stations (it's been a long day and my brain =craves beer not figures), but it's easy enough to guesstamate. What's =the general consensus on this as a general rule of thumb? Gents, Per Brandin quoted L. Feierabend's = drop in taper per foot; Medium .028 to .033 drop/ft.; Fast .033 to .038 = I haven't done the conversion to 5" stations (it's been a long day and = craves beer not figures), but it's easy enough to guesstamate. What's = general consensus on this as a general rule of thumb? Jim from tedknott@cogeco.ca Thu Apr 18 20:29:41 2002 g3J1Te420632 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:29:40 -0500 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Slow to Fast rule of thumb Similar figures ar given in the Wise Fishermans Encyclopedia. Lou =Fierabend wrote the rod building section. Similar figures ar given in the Wise = section. from bob@downandacross.com Thu Apr 18 20:41:20 2002 g3J1fJ421098 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:41:19 -0500 18 Apr 2002 21:41:12 -0400 "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: RE: Slow to Fast rule of thumb Jim:I just re-ferruled and retried the straight tapered 7' quad I have beenworking on. It has an increase of .017 per 6" or .034 per foot. It is basedon the Powell B formula, so it would be comparable to a B8 1/2. It is a fast4 wt. and a very nice casting rod with a 5WF. I know that is heavy for a 7',but it is very nice. The strange thing is, I tried it and reported on itlast week casting it joined with a simple NS tube conecting the two sectionsthat were taped together. I was somewhat pleased, but thought it did notcast a nice tight loop. Tonight casting it with real ferrules from TonyLarson, it was totally different. Much nicer. Anyway, I think that in my recent tests and theorizing, those figures seempretty close to what my rods have shown. Plot out some Garrison rods on 5"centers and average them out and I bet you will see that the "Slope" willshow what Fierebrand proposes. I also think that the post by AJ a few weeks back was dead on. He said,"My conclusion about the design of tapers by many of the oldmasters is that they knew what they wanted the rod to do(fast, slow, tipaction, evenly loading action, etc.) then picked out the ferrule sizes theyknew would do what needed to be done and filled in the rod in between. Afast 5wt 8ft rod would have a 14 ferrule at about .210-.214 .068 -.072 tipand a .300-.320 but before the swell, slow full working 5 .200-.205 ferrule,about a .066 tip and a .290 butt a med fast 4 would be .190 at the ferrule.066 -.068 tip and a 280-290 butt . What happens in between , barringsomething weird isn't all that important."Sounds good to me. You might also want to look in Ray Gould's fantasticchapter on Taper Design from his book, Constructing Bamboo Fly Rods.(Sorryif that is not the exact title, it is on my bench right now. How's that foran endorsment?) Best regards, and please report back on it if you do some testing. Bob -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Freeman Per Brandin quoted L. Feierabend's taper rule of thumb in his article"Bamboo Rod Action and Design" - Slow .023 to .028 drop in taper per foot;Medium .028 to .033 drop/ft.; Fast .033 to .038 drop/ft. I haven't done theconversion to 5" stations (it's been a long day and my brain craves beer notfigures), but it's easy enough to guesstamate. What's the general consensuson this as a general rule of thumb? Jim Jim: re-ferruled and retried the straight tapered 7' quad I have been working = has an increase of .017 per 6" or .034 per foot. It is based on the = formula, so it would be comparable to a B8 1/2. It is a fast 4 wt. and a = nice casting rod with a 5WF. I know that is heavy for a 7', but it is = The strange thing is, I tried it and reported on it last week casting it = with a simple NS tube conecting the two sections that were taped = somewhat pleased, but thought it did not cast a nice tight loop. Tonight = nicer. think that in my recent tests and theorizing, those figures seem pretty = what my rods have shown. Plot out some Garrison rods on 5" centers and = them out and I bet you will see that the "Slope" will show what = proposes. that the post by AJ a few weeks back was dead on. He said, = conclusion about the design of tapers by many of the old masters is that they knewwhat = the rod to do(fast, slow, tip action, evenly loading action, = picked out the ferrule sizes they knew would do what needed tobe = filled in the rod in between. A fast 5wt 8ft rod would have a= about .210-.214 .068 -.072 tip and a .300-.320 but beforethe = full working 5 .200-.205 ferrule, about a .066 tip and a .290 = 4 would be .190 at the ferrule .066 -.068 tip and a 280-290= happens in between , barring something weird isn'tall = important." good to me. You might also want to look in Ray Gould's fantastic chapter = Taper Design from his book, Constructing Bamboo Fly Rods. (Sorry if that = endorsment?) testing.Bob = Freeman Per Brandin quoted L. Feierabend's = drop in taper per foot; Medium .028 to .033 drop/ft.; Fast .033 to = drop/ft. I haven't done the conversion to 5" stations (it's been a = and my brain craves beer not figures), but it's easy enough to = What's the general consensus on this as a general rule of =thumb? Jim = from channer@frontier.net Thu Apr 18 21:20:07 2002 g3J2K6422936 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:20:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Slow to Fast rule of thumb works for mejohn Jim & Sally Freeman wrote: Gents, Per Brandin quoted L. Feierabend's taper rule of thumb in his article"Bamboo Rod Action and Design" - Slow .023 to .028 drop in taper perfoot; Medium .028 to .033 drop/ft.; Fast .033 to .038 drop/ft. Ihaven't done the conversion to 5" stations (it's been a long day andmy brain craves beer not figures), but it's easy enough toguesstamate. What's the general consensus on this as a general rule ofthumb? Jim from bennetts@cybermesa.com Thu Apr 18 22:31:49 2002 g3J3Vm424658 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:31:48 - Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 I found the "Mystery Rod" specs on the Rodmakers site, = Scott Subject: RE: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 OK, you guys have me hooked. Got a taper for this rod? I'd like to =see the graph on it, and might just have to make one. Thanks Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 10:20 PM Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 I fished the San Juan with John Channer a couple of months ago and he =was using a Greyrock "Mystery Rod" which he built. It was very easy to =cast, I didn't have to think about it, and I felt it would be a great =rod for that river (as well as others). I don't know how often you get =to fish with him but you should ask to try that rod sometime (if you =haven't already) and see what you think. I'm planning to build one for = Scott P.S. John was kind of grumpy until we let him put on a dry fly...next = Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 While I would definitely agree that Wayne's conversion of the =para-15 to a five weight (8052) is a wonderful rod, you're not =characterizing it as fast, are you? There's little question that it =falls into the parabolic category much more readily that the fast one. =I think I understand you correctly in saying that you're looking for = If so, I might well suggest the Mystery Rod from Grayrock posted =on the Rodmakers page several years ago. It is a very fast and powerful =5 weight with light, delicate tips which can handle the light tippets = I just finished this rod and gave it a try on the San Juan. I was =looking for a fairly fast 5 wt. @ 8' for throwing nymph rigs. This rod =does it pretty darned well. I haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell =you much there. When I first finished this rod, I thought it was going =to be a bit of a wrist buster, but I was very pleased that it cast =easily and is not tiresome at all. In fact, I really like it as a good =all around rod. I took one rainbow of probably over 5 pounds and turned =him inside out. Rod's got plenty of power. Now, I have to say, I'm a bit =of a speed freak. I like to throw weight and I like to do it out aways = Rodmaker's archive. I think that taper is a much more radical taper - =way into fast. I might suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go =through all of the 8' 5 wts and average their measurement at each =station. Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'm curious about. =Stress curve doesn't look too bad either. Anyway, I like Wayne's taper. =It's nice. I did heat treat up to 375 degrees for about 20 minutes. Just =enough to get off blonde and into light brown. @font-face { font-family: SimSun;}@font-face { font-family: Tahoma;}@font-face { font-family: Arial Black;}@font-face { font-family: \@SimSun;}P.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT- DECORATION: underline}A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}P { FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in;=MARGIN- RIGHT: 0in}SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} I found the "Mystery Rod" specs on the= site, www.canerod.com/rodmakers/= Scott ----- Original Message ----- Miller, Troy Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 = AMSubject: RE: Cattanach Rod = 8052 OK, you = TAM Message-----From: = Sent:Wednesday, = fbcwin@3g.quik.comCc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu=Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052 Jim, = I fished the San Juan = Channer a couple of months ago and he was using a Greyrock "Mystery = ask to try that rod sometime (if you haven't already) and see what you = Scott P.S. John was kind of = ----- Original Message = From: Harry = Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:52 PM Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Jim, little question that it falls into the parabolic category much more = you're looking for something a little faster. Mystery Rod from Grayrock posted on the Rodmakers page several years= which can handle the light tippets required by streams such as the = & Sally Freeman wrote: I just finished this = gave it a try on the San Juan. I was looking for a fairly fast 5 = haven't tried dries yet, so I can't tell you much there. When I = finished this rod, I thought it was going to be a bit of a wrist = but I was very pleased that it cast easily and is not tiresome at = fact, I really like it as a good all around rod. I took one = probably over 5 pounds and turned him inside out. Rod's got plenty = of a speed freak. I like to throw weight and I like to do it out = long, drag-free drifts. I'm now looking at A.J. Thramer's rod in = Rodmaker's archive. I think that taper is a much more radical = into fast. I might suggest that, if you're looking for fast, go = Comes out a pretty straight taper that I'm curious about. Stress = Wayne's taper. It's nice. I did heat treat up to 375 degrees for = brown. Harry Boyd from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Apr 18 23:02:27 2002 g3J42Q425617 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:02:26 - (authenticated) for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:02:19 -0700 Subject: Positive Bamboo Press Friends, Two of our listers, AJ Thramer and ChrisMcDowell got some nice press recently. Ran acrossthis article and thought y'all might beinterested. http://www.registerguard.com/news/20020418/6e.od.bamboo.0418.html Harry-- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Thu Apr 18 23:13:14 2002 g3J4DD426108 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 23:13:13 -0500 helo=default) id 16yPll-0006Xq-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:13:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Positive Bamboo Press Hey, way to go guys! Nice article! M-D Friends, Two of our listers, AJ Thramer and ChrisMcDowell got some nice press recently. Ran acrossthis article and thought y'all might beinterested. http://www.registerguard.com/news/20020418/6e.od.bamboo.0418.html Harry-- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Fri Apr 19 06:50:45 2002 g3JBoh402080 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 06:50:43 -0500 g3JBoKn76488; Subject: Re: PU Kyle To answer the questions, no I don't bother to wet the strips; there seems tobe plenty of ambient moistue to effect curing of the glue, and I have yetto have a failure - although even as I say that, I know that I am going towish that I hadn't. I bind by hand most of the time, using an arrangement where my string is fedthrough a tension device. One of the reasons I do this is that I don't seemto get any twist this way, and another is that I don't have to worry aboutgetting all this crap off a binder. However, this PU glue will clean offwith alcohol, and even when pretty well set up will still peel off metalfairly easily. There are PU's and PU's, of course, but the one I use (the two, actually,Elmers Probond and AV510) I take both the string and the glue residue offthe blank after 12 hours with no trouble at all. In fact, I just rip theglue off with the side of an old plane iron, and it's sort of semi soft atthis stage. Compared with epoxy and urea formaldehyde it's a breeze, andnotoxic sanding dust to take out your respiratory mucosae! I find that the AV510, which is really my preferred preparation, sets uptacky a bit faster than my relaxed pace of hand-binding would prefer, andthe way I get past that is to keep a small bowl of alcohol on the bench,and when the glue gets a bit sticky, I dip the old gloves in the alcohol.This not only solves the problem of the sticky gloves, but also pretty wellgets rid of most of the PU residue, so when you do have to pull the stringoff, there is very little muck mixed up with it. It's a funny thing, though - even though the glue gets "glove tacky" youstill have stacks of time with the glue in terms of working andstraightening time. I really like the stuff. The last rod I glued, a couple of weeks ago, I didwith Epon, largely because I have a lot of it, and I can tell you, it willbe a long time before I use Epon again. Any more I can tell you, just ask. Peter from dpvbkjs@tdstelme.net Fri Apr 19 07:10:50 2002 g3JCAn402707 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:10:49 -0500 Subject: F.E. Thomas 8053 Listers, Has anyone made, cast, and/or fished the F.E. Thomas 8053 from the taperarchives ? If so, what are you impressions? TIA,David from dannyt@frisurf.no Fri Apr 19 07:12:31 2002 g3JCCT402900 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:12:29 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: PU Peter, I have the same experience with PU, I've yet to have any failure. I don'twet my strips eather, I acctually spoke to some of the lab-guys at the Cascofactory, and they told me it was not needed cause the glue will use the"ambient" moister from the air. It is plenty of time to work with thestraightening after binding and it takes heat very well. danny from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Apr 19 09:33:26 2002 g3JEXQ407431 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:33:26 -0500 HAA08654 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:33:30 -0700 JAA29825 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:33:24 -0500 g3JEXM026621 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:33:22 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:33:22 -0700 Subject: help Two hundred million thankyous for all of you that helped me with my plight.Reed is right, silk is wonderful and cane come more alive with it. On other news, I just got back from a windsor chair making workshop withmike Dunbar in New Hampshire using only hand tools. Well worth the cost,less than buying a Windsor (real) from and furniture dealer. Greatexperience and lobster roll sandwiches to boot. Doesn't get much better thanthat.http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/index.html great leader program to down load for free. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from rcristant@isgtransport.com Fri Apr 19 09:36:35 2002 g3JEaY407851 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:36:34 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:messageSubject: Four string binder Thread-Topic: Four string binderThread-Index: AcHnr53PoN5ZAtIQT3eu/JfQpMgGHA== Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders.Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use?All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert CleanCleanDocumentEmail =0=0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four =string Garrison be greatlyappreciated. Robert =00 from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Apr 19 09:38:46 2002 g3JEci408186 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:38:45 -0500 Subject: Re: help I have Mike Dunbar's book on making Windsor chairs and have made somebased on it. He seems a real down to earth craftsman. Tony At 07:33 AM 4/19/02 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Two hundred million thankyous for all of you that helped me with my plight.Reed is right, silk is wonderful and cane come more alive with it. On other news, I just got back from a windsor chair making workshop withmike Dunbar in New Hampshire using only hand tools. Well worth the cost,less than buying a Windsor (real) from and furniture dealer. Greatexperience and lobster roll sandwiches to boot. Doesn't get much betterthanthat.http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/index.html great leader program to down load for free. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Fri Apr 19 09:53:53 2002 g3JErk409117 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:53:46 -0500 HAA24179 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:53:47 -0700 JAA03884 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:53:40 -0500 g3JEra023293 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:53:36 -0500 (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:53:29 -0700 Subject: FW: help this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. He's changed just about everything in it. I have the same book and it wasuseless which really surprised me, he told us that the first day and itfloored most of us. Here's the chairs we built, mines the one in the middlefront. from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Apr 19 10:10:56 2002 g3JFAu410232 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:10:56 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:10:51 -0400 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: help FILETIME=[64BB98B0:01C1E7B4] Dunbar's book on restoring and using old tools is absolutely the best. Dunbar Rex! bill t 10:45 PM 4/19/2002 +0800, Tony Young wrote: I have Mike Dunbar's book on making Windsor chairs and have made some based on it. He seems a real down to earth craftsman. Tony At 07:33 AM 4/19/02 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Two hundred million thankyous for all of you that helped me with my plight.Reed is right, silk is wonderful and cane come more alive with it. On other news, I just got back from a windsor chair making workshop withmike Dunbar in New Hampshire using only hand tools. Well worth the cost,less than buying a Windsor (real) from and furniture dealer. Greatexperience and lobster roll sandwiches to boot. Doesn't get much betterthanthat.http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/index.html great leader program to down load for free. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Apr 19 10:13:32 2002 g3JFDV410574 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:13:31 -0500 Subject: RE: help Patrick, You should have traveled a little further south to Barkhamstead, CT Home ofthe Hitchcock Chair Co., the Farmington River run behind the factory. Watchthem make chairs while you catch fish!! Peter -----Original Message----- Subject: help Two hundred million thankyous for all of you that helped me with my plight.Reed is right, silk is wonderful and cane come more alive with it. On other news, I just got back from a windsor chair making workshop withmike Dunbar in New Hampshire using only hand tools. Well worth the cost,less than buying a Windsor (real) from and furniture dealer. Greatexperience and lobster roll sandwiches to boot. Doesn't get much better thanthat.http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/index.html great leader program to down load for free. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from carstenjorgensen@mail.dk Fri Apr 19 10:17:11 2002 g3JFHA411021 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:17:11 -0500 ;Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:17:09 +0200 Subject: Sv: Four string binder Make a Smithwick binder - low tech, low cost, high efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. =Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? =All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert CleanCleanDocumentEmail =0=0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in =1.25in; mso- header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text- underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: =personal- compose; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-bidi- font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message ----- Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = PMSubject: Four string =binder Hello all, I am = advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Apr 19 10:20:50 2002 g3JFKm411454 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:20:48 -0500 "'rodmakers'" Subject: Re: help Thay's what I thought and is in fact why I bought the book in the first place. It was only after seeing his Windsors I really got to like them.When we moved to Perth from Brisbane we didn't think we'd need two dining table sets so I gave the table and Windsor chairs to my brother as a sort of late wedding gift. Not 6 months later they split up so it's a bit of a sore point all round but I do still have the book. Tony At 11:10 AM 4/19/02 -0400, Bill Hoy wrote: Dunbar's book on restoring and using old tools is absolutely the best. Dunbar Rex! bill t 10:45 PM 4/19/2002 +0800, Tony Young wrote: I have Mike Dunbar's book on making Windsor chairs and have made some based on it. He seems a real down to earth craftsman. Tony At 07:33 AM 4/19/02 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Two hundred million thankyous for all of you that helped me with myplight.Reed is right, silk is wonderful and cane come more alive with it. On other news, I just got back from a windsor chair making workshopwithmike Dunbar in New Hampshire using only hand tools. Well worth the cost,less than buying a Windsor (real) from and furniture dealer. Greatexperience and lobster roll sandwiches to boot. Doesn't get much betterthanthat.http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/index.html great leader program to down load for free. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from LambersonW@missouri.edu Fri Apr 19 10:28:11 2002 g3JFSA411966 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:28:10 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:28:10 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Four string binder Thread-Topic: Four string binderThread-Index: AcHntW4zaTU1yWoKS7u4oxrQ9td9rgAAPkQw FILETIME=[CFF923C0:01C1E7B6] I put a motor from a garage sale sewing machine on my Smithwick binder. =The on/off and speed is controlled with a foot pedal thus allows me to =have both hands free for holding the section while binding. I took the =tensioner from the sewing machine as well. The total cost of the binder =was less than $20, a bit of copper tubing, a pulley, and the sewing =machine. Bill Lamberson-----Original Message----- Subject: Sv: Four string binder Make a Smithwick binder - low tech, low cost, high efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. =Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? =All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert CleanCleanDocumentEmail =0=0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 P.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso- style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso- style-type: =personal-compose; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =mso- hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} on/off and speed is controlled with a foot pedal thus allows me to have = machine. Lamberson -----Original Message-----From: Carsten = binderMake a Smithwick binder - low tech, low cost, high = efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message ----- Robert Cristant = Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = PMSubject: Four string =binder Hello all, I am = = and advice would be greatly =appreciated. Robert= from stoltz10@attbi.com Fri Apr 19 10:36:37 2002 g3JFaZ412665 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:36:35 -0500 Subject: Fw: PROBLEM SOLVED (off subject but funny) ----- Original Message ----- "keith spring" ; "tim stoltz" ;"brad wright" ; "bryan r wynn"; "teeny anderson" ;"thomasanderson" ; "Teresa bailey"; "mike burroughs" ;"markcanfield" ; "aaron cossel" ;"karendobson" ; "brenda durnil" ;"julie finan" ; "robert gallagher"; "mark gilstrap" ; "joannhall" ; "katy kniesteadt"; "marlyn lewis" ;"charlie macdonald" ; "phyllis mason"; "lyle popson" ; "timothy reiser" Subject: Fwd: PROBLEM SOLVED Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ name="PROBLEM SOLVED.eml" filename="PROBLEM SOLVED.eml" Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:30:01 PDT from DsignStrat@aol.com Fri Apr 19 05:39:35 2002 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 05:39:34 -0700 Subject: PROBLEM SOLVED Stephen.Bausch@Denver.RyderScott.Com, hoover94@optonline.net, andromeda601@webtv.net Content-Length: 46003